Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Risso on December 29, 2012, 06:09:13 PM
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OK, possibly the least surprising post ever from me, but I've had enough. I accept that he was the most obvious and preferred choice in the summer, but it isn't working and he's going to get us relegated. Our worst start to a season, the worst goal difference in the league, two goals a game conceded, our record top flight defeat, and now three humiliating defeats in a row that have destroyed the lest remnants of any confidence the team once had. Getting battered at home by a team like Wigan who had one point in their previous however many games was the last straw. Yes, we all wanted him, but it just isn't working, and it was Lambert's choice to spend 20m on a team full of lower league kids, and players like Bennett, KEA, Bowery and Westwood just aren't good enough for a Premier League team, especially given how poor the rest of our team is.
I also realise that it wouldn't be the the best time to ditch him, but how can you retain somebody who is performing so poorly? The football isn't even any improvement on last year, and the results are far, far worse. So at present, I'd have him on a par with McNeill for paucity of performance.
As for who we'd get in, a short term fixer to try and keep us up. Di Matteo maybe? Or somebody like Roy Keane to give everybody a kick up the arse, as one thing Lambert clearly can't do is motivate anybody.
Right, where's me tin hat?
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Westwood is good enough in my opinion and I don't know on Bowery, but I'll agree on the others. Basically though I think the owner needs to pull his finger out, we can't keep getting rid of managers.
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Didn't the Baggies sack Di Matteo for losing something like 13 out of 18 games?
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Westwood has been our best midfield player. Lowton and Vlaar have been good signings. Bennett IMO looks like he will be ok in time, time we don't have admittedly so need more experienced cover there but the players he has bought in I have few worries about beyond KEA. The bigger issue is that there have not been enough players, and we are painfully thin squad wise still. 3 centre halves out injured of 4, with the least dominant being the only one standing has killed us second half against Spurs and today.
Westwood tiring has hurt us. For the first time I though it was Lamberts fault today in all honesty, but to call for him to go is borderline madness at this point. He has proved to be a good manager before, and should, whatever happens this season IMO, be given time to turn it round. I think long term he is the man, we all wanted him pretty much, we should stick behind him, which largely we have so far.
Give him money, and time, and we will come good.
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Oh and Di Matteo and Keane? Seriously. I would sooner have Curbishley!
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I can't see him getting the money for what we can all see we need.
Lambert is not the problem.
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Barring the club being sold to a multi multi billionaire before the end of January, Lambert is our best chance of not getting relegated.
I see no other better option working with what is being made available.
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With what Lambert has apparently said on WM, it points to a far greater problem. If there is a very low wage cap then obviously it will be difficult to get in any other type of players than young with potential.
It's fucking alarming though, we'll probably find out one way or another in January though.
Lambert has to stay for me, at least there's still hope of long-term success with him around. Get in a Megson or equivalent and I think I'd completely lose the will to live.
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Lerner needs to look at the amount of money teams will receive for being in the Premier League next season and invest accordingly, because it's not hopeless. We're not marooned or anything, but we need serious reinforcements.
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Oh and Di Matteo and Keane? Seriously. I would sooner have Curbishley!
I'd rather have McLeish back, Lambert is that woeful. What has he done right since he arrived?
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the lunatics have taken over the asylum
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
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He's operating within a shit budget, yes the players could be better but we miss the influence of Vlaar and I don't think realistically he wanted to play all the kids at once but we ain't got much bloody choice, sounds like there is no money in January either?? Who's going to sort it out? We've been shit under GH, Mccunt and now Lambert, who's to blame? Managers or chairman?
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Oh and Di Matteo and Keane? Seriously. I would sooner have Curbishley!
I'd rather have McLeish back, Lambert is that woeful. What has he done right since he arrived?
Matron...!!
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I'm with you however Lerner has to go too
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the lunatics have taken over the asylum
Lerner is chief fuckin lunatic.
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
Yes we are, in every way. Even fewer goals scored, and far more conceded. McLeish's football was dire, but this is as bad, AND we get battered at the same time. We're a humiliated joke of a club at the moment, and I haven't felt like that under any other manager for a long time.
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It is quite clear that Lambert is working to the same rules as Alex McLeish. Even if Fergie comes here to see out his time, he would go the same way: sacked after a year with three years wages in his pocket. In the meantime, we would continue being crap.
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I really can't see the point of sacking Paul Lambert now. He was a promising candidate in the summer and who are we realistically going to get in to replace him? The Villa job has become a poisoned chalice and I think any manager brought in would struggle under the current circumstances. The general malaise over the past couple of years suggests that the problems at the club run a lot deeper than the manager and the playing staff, and it is looking increasingly like there isn't a fix.
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Doesn't it seem like a lifetime ago since the 'proud history, bright future' mantra ?
I think we've all been rather shafted.
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Utterly pointless getting rid of him as the source of the problems lie with the total lack of direction and nous from the board. It really is time for Lerner and co to get a bleeding grip and realize that current policies aren't working. We are a headless chicken and i despair as to where we are heading.
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What did Lambert actually say in regards about players in January?
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If ever there was time to get a villa man in its now. Big Ron?
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Randy has to sell up.I would much rather have a chairman with no money who cares,than a rich chairman who couldn't give a fuck.
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If ever there was time to get a villa man in its now. Big Ron?
Newcastle thought the same, appointing Keegan and then Shearer. Didn't work for them.
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Lambert actually is a man who makes me believe in his vision and what he wants to achieve. There is just something about him that instills positivism into the club. I have a lot more confidence in him than I ever had in mcleish.
We were all thrilled when we got him as manager in the summer and rightly so. its a bit silly to throw your toys out the pram when it gets bad. we need to be patient and accept where we are for the moment hoping to progress. it doesn't happen over night, its going to take time. we have a lot of rebuilding to do.
last 3 games have been a disgrace but we can't dwell on that bad, the only way we can move is to move forward.
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I'd have big Ron back :) to help out by beating shit out of Ireland
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
How long would you then give it before you starting crucifying him? Or Barry Chuckle? Or Avram Grant? Or whoever we'd reduced ourselves to employing?
The problem is not the manager. It is the absentee chairman who quite clearly doesn't really care too much any more.
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Aston Villa boss Paul Lambert
On losing 3-0 to Wigan: "You cannot start the game like we did - especially at home. It's not great by any standards. The only spell we had was 20 minutes in the first half and the second goal from a Wigan throw-in was really poor.
"We've got a lot of injuries at the minute which doesn't help, but we know we're in a fight. We've just got to keep going and keep trying to do the right things."
On Villa fans leaving after the third Wigan goal: "Absolutely I can understand it. I pick the team, it's my responsibility. The crowd have been brilliant with me and that's why I can't say anything against them."
On bouncing back from conceding 15 goals in three matches: "You have to pick yourselves back up and keep fighting. We certainly know we're in a fight but this club has been in a fight for a couple of years so it's nothing new. But we don't want to be in this position."
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What a joke, he is working to the owners plan.
We have a wage cap, he has brought in lots of players within that structure.
Are you being serious? Can you not see any team would miss experience.
-Dunne (who came back last season to help keep us up)
-Gabby (experienced premier leaguer player)
-Vlaar (experienced leader)
-Petrov (Club captain, Leader and inspiration)
-Gardner (would be our best midfielder but for injuries)
------------Guzan
Lowton-Vlaar-Dunne-Bennett
-Gardner-Westwood-Bannan
--Weimann-Benteke-Gabby
That team in my opinion would be a lot more solid and would not have conceded 15 goals without reply.
And if Petrov was playing we would be a lot better off.
Now is the time to stick with the manager, stick with the team and not throw our dummies out the pram because our very inexperienced team that has aload of injuries has had a terrible Christmas programme.
I cannot think of a manager I would rather have at this point.
In Lambert we trust. VTID
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
As Player-Manager?
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In future years will this become known as ' our Winter of discontent'
And where the fella from ITV gone ? It's all gone wrong since he stopped posting
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-Gardner (would be our best midfielder but for injuries
Based on what?
A handful of appearances?
If we were considering such an untried kid to be our best midfielder, it'd show just how much shit we were in.
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
As Player-Manager?
That's genuinely the only way the idea could get any more fucking stupid.
Honestly, Risso, what's wrong with you? Have you gone mental or something? I used to think your Allardyce thing was mental enough, but Roy Keane, FFS?
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Lambert isn't the problem that idiot Lerner is the problem, the policies his has adopted will be the end of us as a top flight club. Lerner needs to back him in January, if he doesn't we are gone.
If Lambert is sacked who on earth will we get in? I honestly can't think of anyone who would take this job knowing the sort of restrictions they would have to work with under Lerner.
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-Gardner (would be our best midfielder but for injuries
Based on what?
A handful of appearances?
If we were considering such an untried kid to be our best midfielder, it'd show just how much shit we were in.
It's delusion. He's just another in a long line of young Villa kids who never amount to much. We keep talking up our youth system when in reality they're really just average. I think Lerner fell for it big time and felt we were churning out out great players through a youth academy akin to Ajax. How wrong he was.
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Lambert actually is a man who makes me believe in his vision and what he wants to achieve. There is just something about him that instills positivism into the club. I have a lot more confidence in him than I ever had in mcleish.
We were all thrilled when we got him as manager in the summer and rightly so. its a bit silly to throw your toys out the pram when it gets bad. we need to be patient and accept where we are for the moment hoping to progress. it doesn't happen over night, its going to take time. we have a lot of rebuilding to do.
last 3 games have been a disgrace but we can't dwell on that bad, the only way we can move is to move forward.
Totally agree.Vlaar,Benteke,Lowton and Westwood good signings and I think Bennett will prove to be as well.Lambert also resigned Guzan.Nearly everybody wanted Collins,Warnock,Hutton and Dunne out which was half of TSMs side.
Lambert's main error was to trust in KEA.
If we get rid of Lambert it will be to our detriment and some other club's benefit.
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
As Player-Manager?
That's genuinely the only way the idea could get any more fucking stupid.
Honestly, Risso, what's wrong with you? Have you gone mental or something? I used to think your Allardyce thing was mental enough, but Roy Keane, FFS?
Randy has come up with some mental ideas,problem is he can put them into practice.
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Lambert actually is a man who makes me believe in his vision and what he wants to achieve. There is just something about him that instills positivism into the club. I have a lot more confidence in him than I ever had in mcleish.
We were all thrilled when we got him as manager in the summer and rightly so. its a bit silly to throw your toys out the pram when it gets bad. we need to be patient and accept where we are for the moment hoping to progress. it doesn't happen over night, its going to take time. we have a lot of rebuilding to do.
last 3 games have been a disgrace but we can't dwell on that bad, the only way we can move is to move forward.
Totally agree.Vlaar,Benteke,Lowton and Westwood good signings and I think Bennett will prove to be as well.Lambert also resigned Guzan.Nearly everybody wanted Collins,Warnock,Hutton and Dunne out which was half of TSMs side.
Lambert's main error was to trust in KEA.
If we get rid of Lambert it will be to our detriment and some other club's benefit.
I think both these posts are bang on (with the exception that I think Bennett has looked shite).
Some of Lambert's buys have looked very astute (Lowton, Westwood, maybe Vlaar, resigning Guzan).
The problem is that the most important one was KEA, and he has flopped big style.
The biggest mistake we could make now would be to change manager at the current time, it would be utter madness.
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-Gardner (would be our best midfielder but for injuries
Based on what?
A handful of appearances?
If we were considering such an untried kid to be our best midfielder, it'd show just how much shit we were in.
It's delusion. He's just another in a long line of young Villa kids who never amount to much. We keep talking up our youth system when in reality they're really just average. I think Lerner fell for it big time and felt we were churning out out great players through a youth academy akin to Ajax. How wrong he was.
I have started to think along these lines now as well, I keep hearing how good these players will be that are coming through, in reality as you say they are just very average players. I think the academy is very good at what it does but how many players who have come through recently can we actually say are good top flight players, I can't think of many.
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It was also nice to hear him say what a magnificent football club it is after the beating today. There are times to stick and there are times to twist. McLeish has history of being a useless manager. Lambert doesn't. Lets give him time, and some money.
IF Lerner does not back him as it being mooted tonight, it will end any sympathy I have with him though. I think he did well last summer as a chairman, and we have been unlucky to lose some of the players we have, but he needs to find 20 million for Lambert now.
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-Gardner (would be our best midfielder but for injuries
Based on what?
A handful of appearances?
If we were considering such an untried kid to be our best midfielder, it'd show just how much shit we were in.
It's delusion. He's just another in a long line of young Villa kids who never amount to much. We keep talking up our youth system when in reality they're really just average. I think Lerner fell for it big time and felt we were churning out out great players through a youth academy akin to Ajax. How wrong he was.
I have started to think along these lines now as well, I keep hearing how good these players will be that are coming through, in reality as you say they are just very average players. I think the academy is very good at what it does but how many players who have come through recently can we actually say are good top flight players, I can't think of many.
Some of them aren't good enough and are over hyped.
The problem is, some of them could be very good, and sometimes are, the problem is they're playing in a losing side, surrounded by other kids, and it just saps all confidence out of them.
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Most managers of teams who get battered 3 games on the bounce let in 15 goals with no reply and are just outside the relagation zone would probably get the boot. I think he has took a gamble on youth and it hasnt paid off. I agree that problems lie upstairs and lerner needs to go or heavily invest. I doubt he will be going any time soon and he more than likely wont heavily invest but we have all known that for a few season now. But you need to work with what you have got and he has brought quite alot of average players. The only real decent ones he has brought in for me are Lowton and Westwood who look quite solid in my opinion.
He has assembled a championship quality team mixed with fringe players so can we expect anything else?
Going off his interview on WM I dont think he will bring in any 'experienced' players because that isnt the direction he wants to take the club in.
Lerner needs to invest or I can see this coverstation about 'lambert out' dragging on right the way to the end of the season.
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Lerner out ASAP! He is useless...end of!
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Why to people keep talking about motivation?
We're awful because our midfield is abysmal. It is physically weak, small, lacks the ability to win the ball, knock an opponent legally off the ball and it offers no protection for the equally as dire defence.
In attack it creates nothing and offers no guille or flair. It is sterile.
It is Lambert's fault for not strengthening the midfield properly. It will cost his job in May.
But a lack of motivation? Nope.
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Has anything ACTUALLY been said on WM or is it a case of Chinese whispers? And as for Roy Keame as manager of Villa, that has to be one of the most ridiculous (football related) things I've heard. He is a total, unmitigated disaster, no no no!
As for our current plight I'm concerned, very concerned. We look like a team heading for the drop, PL said its not about experience, look at last year etc! What he stopped short of saying, or should have said is tht it's about LEADERS. We have no one to lead us, no one to take the game by the scruff of the neck. We need leaders and winners FAST.
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
As Player-Manager?
That's genuinely the only way the idea could get any more fucking stupid.
Honestly, Risso, what's wrong with you? Have you gone mental or something? I used to think your Allardyce thing was mental enough, but Roy Keane, FFS?
I reckon Rissbert adopts the Adrian Durham/TalkSport attitude to things. Lets says something thats mental bollox and gets people riled so they ring in to the station and keep listening. Mr Woodall is probably paying him to say stuff so people stay online at H & V. I'm sure he doesn't really believe it. ;D
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I am fucking sick to the back teeth of hearing, kids,youth, promising youngsters, brilliant academy etc etc.
This is the premier league, arguably the most demanding and cutthroat league in the world.
If anyone on the management team, CEO, CFO, Chairman, or manager, thinks that you can be successful with a team full of championship players, unproven foreigners and kids, they are bloody deluded.
There is no doubt about this, it is piss poor management from top to bottom.
Trouble is, we have an owner who has no idea how to run a football club, and a manager who frankly is unproven at this level, and appears to be approaching the role with a real 'small time' attitude.
I have yet to hear a single rousing speech from PL that makes think, yeah, he is up for this.
Frankly, I don't think he is.
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Lambert actually is a man who makes me believe in his vision and what he wants to achieve. There is just something about him that instills positivism into the club. I have a lot more confidence in him than I ever had in mcleish.
I tried to make a similar point in the post-match thread but it came out wrong. Lambert is trying to build a base for the future on very limited resources. I tried to say that he has a plan. He has a philosophy we can buy into, he wants to build a platform for the future. But, he is working under the same restrictions as McLeish. He has bought well with the money he was given. If we sack him where do we go? We desperately need stability.
More importantly we need an owner to lead and provide the manager with the resources to carry his plan through.
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He didn't say he wouldn't sign any exprienced players in as many words.
He said he is only interested in players with a hunger. Exprienced is a subjective term anyway, as Lambert rightly said this squad has the exprience of two relegation battles already.
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
As Player-Manager?
That's genuinely the only way the idea could get any more fucking stupid.
Honestly, Risso, what's wrong with you? Have you gone mental or something? I used to think your Allardyce thing was mental enough, but Roy Keane, FFS?
I reckon Rissbert adopts the Adrian Durham/TalkSport attitude to things. Lets says something thats mental bollox and gets people riled so they ring in to the station and keep listening. Mr Woodall is probably paying him to say stuff so people stay online at H & V. I'm sure he doesn't really believe it. ;D
I can see a flaw in your plan there rightaway.
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He didn't say he wouldn't sign any exprienced players in as many words.
He said he is only interested in players with a hunger. Exprienced is a subjective term anyway, as Lambert rightly said this squad has the exprience of two relegation battles already.
i heard it that way too.
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Also, on our youth players, I think we have been really impressed with Lowton and Westwood because they have a bit of grit many of our own home-grown villa products don't have.
I really hope this doesn't offend anybody, but when I see some of villa's own young players I feel they look really manufactured and lack a bit of steel and imagination. Weimann, Baker and Bannan are exceptions. Even Clark, whom I am a big fan of, seems to have little stomach and never seems to be on top of things.
Sorry, but a lot of them aren't justifying the hype.
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
As Player-Manager?
That's genuinely the only way the idea could get any more fucking stupid.
Honestly, Risso, what's wrong with you? Have you gone mental or something? I used to think your Allardyce thing was mental enough, but Roy Keane, FFS?
I reckon Rissbert adopts the Adrian Durham/TalkSport attitude to things. Lets says something thats mental bollox and gets people riled so they ring in to the station and keep listening. Mr Woodall is probably paying him to say stuff so people stay online at H & V. I'm sure he doesn't really believe it. ;D
Fans have called for managers heads for a lot less than Lambert's results this season.
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He didn't say he wouldn't sign any exprienced players in as many words.
He said he is only interested in players with a hunger. Exprienced is a subjective term anyway, as Lambert rightly said this squad has the exprience of two relegation battles already.
i heard it that way too.
Same here.
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The tactics , team selection and formation along with his substitutions worry me very much about lambert, his signings haven't been that bad but you need a balance and a mixture of youth and experience- not just young lads learning their trade.
Lambert now worries me and Lerner has worried me for years.
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He didn't say he wouldn't sign any exprienced players in as many words.
He said he is only interested in players with a hunger. Exprienced is a subjective term anyway, as Lambert rightly said this squad has the exprience of two relegation battles already.
i heard it that way too.
The trouble is when he's signed "hungry" players in the past it just turns out that "hungry" means "cheap".
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
As Player-Manager?
That's genuinely the only way the idea could get any more fucking stupid.
Honestly, Risso, what's wrong with you? Have you gone mental or something? I used to think your Allardyce thing was mental enough, but Roy Keane, FFS?
I reckon Rissbert adopts the Adrian Durham/TalkSport attitude to things. Lets says something thats mental bollox and gets people riled so they ring in to the station and keep listening. Mr Woodall is probably paying him to say stuff so people stay online at H & V. I'm sure he doesn't really believe it. ;D
Fans have called for managers heads for a lot less than Lambert's results this season.
Yeah, it's the "maybe Roy Keane" thing that swings it.
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Lambert actually is a man who makes me believe in his vision and what he wants to achieve. There is just something about him that instills positivism into the club. I have a lot more confidence in him than I ever had in mcleish.
We were all thrilled when we got him as manager in the summer and rightly so. its a bit silly to throw your toys out the pram when it gets bad. we need to be patient and accept where we are for the moment hoping to progress. it doesn't happen over night, its going to take time. we have a lot of rebuilding to do.
last 3 games have been a disgrace but we can't dwell on that bad, the only way we can move is to move forward.
Totally agree.Vlaar,Benteke,Lowton and Westwood good signings and I think Bennett will prove to be as well.Lambert also resigned Guzan.Nearly everybody wanted Collins,Warnock,Hutton and Dunne out which was half of TSMs side.
Lambert's main error was to trust in KEA.
If we get rid of Lambert it will be to our detriment and some other club's benefit.
I think both these posts are bang on (with the exception that I think Bennett has looked shite).
Some of Lambert's buys have looked very astute (Lowton, Westwood, maybe Vlaar, resigning Guzan).
The problem is that the most important one was KEA, and he has flopped big style.
The biggest mistake we could make now would be to change manager at the current time, it would be utter madness.
Yes, yes, yes and yes.
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He didn't say he wouldn't sign any exprienced players in as many words.
He said he is only interested in players with a hunger. Exprienced is a subjective term anyway, as Lambert rightly said this squad has the exprience of two relegation battles already.
i heard it that way too.
The trouble is when he's signed "hungry" players in the past it just turns out that "hungry" means "cheap".
Agree. Lets not let the language being used in a certain way hide the subtext; namely that they must be cheap players or we ain't signing them.
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-Gardner (would be our best midfielder but for injuries
Based on what?
A handful of appearances?
If we were considering such an untried kid to be our best midfielder, it'd show just how much shit we were in.
It's delusion. He's just another in a long line of young Villa kids who never amount to much. We keep talking up our youth system when in reality they're really just average. I think Lerner fell for it big time and felt we were churning out out great players through a youth academy akin to Ajax. How wrong he was.
I have started to think along these lines now as well, I keep hearing how good these players will be that are coming through, in reality as you say they are just very average players. I think the academy is very good at what it does but how many players who have come through recently can we actually say are good top flight players, I can't think of many.
We sold Cahill,Ridgewell,Whittingham and Gardner who would have improved the team today.The problem has been the huge waste of money on bringing in players.
Given,Makoun,Hutton,Warnock,Ireland,Delph,Davies ,Nzogbia ,Dunne and Bent adds up to £75-80m and a probable loss of £50m plus.All bought by former managers and financed by the board. We have spent very badly.
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
As Player-Manager?
That's genuinely the only way the idea could get any more fucking stupid.
Honestly, Risso, what's wrong with you? Have you gone mental or something? I used to think your Allardyce thing was mental enough, but Roy Keane, FFS?
I reckon Rissbert adopts the Adrian Durham/TalkSport attitude to things. Lets says something thats mental bollox and gets people riled so they ring in to the station and keep listening. Mr Woodall is probably paying him to say stuff so people stay online at H & V. I'm sure he doesn't really believe it. ;D
Fans have called for managers heads for a lot less than Lambert's results this season.
Yeah, it's the "maybe Roy Keane" thing that swings it.
Very true.
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Cheap and hungry are terms that doesn't mean a great deal. Quality is key, with the right physical attributes.
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Lambert actually is a man who makes me believe in his vision and what he wants to achieve. There is just something about him that instills positivism into the club. I have a lot more confidence in him than I ever had in mcleish.
We were all thrilled when we got him as manager in the summer and rightly so. its a bit silly to throw your toys out the pram when it gets bad. we need to be patient and accept where we are for the moment hoping to progress. it doesn't happen over night, its going to take time. we have a lot of rebuilding to do.
last 3 games have been a disgrace but we can't dwell on that bad, the only way we can move is to move forward.
Totally agree.Vlaar,Benteke,Lowton and Westwood good signings and I think Bennett will prove to be as well.Lambert also resigned Guzan.Nearly everybody wanted Collins,Warnock,Hutton and Dunne out which was half of TSMs side.
Lambert's main error was to trust in KEA.
If we get rid of Lambert it will be to our detriment and some other club's benefit.
its not just the astute buys he's made its also how he's transformed players who were fringe squad players into regular starters who deserve their place in the team. I've really enjoyed watching Weimann so far, he's a really clinical finisher in front of goal. Holman has worked his ass off and his work rate helps an inexperienced midfield. Baker and Stevens have looked quite solid at the back for the most part. Guzan has been more reliable compared to Given.
The problem is that Risso is looking at things short term and his emotion is getting the better of him. Already Lambert has done quite a lot of work already getting his stamp of authority in.working things how he wants it done his way. He knows what he wants and isnt afraid of what others might think. We need to look at the bigger picture and long term strategy. I know it sounds strange after today but I'm not devastated like a few on here. OK maybe I thought we wouldn't be where we are in the league now at the start of the season, but I keep telling myself the circumstances of this season and its not how you start its how you finish. I'm prepared to give Lambert much more of a chance than someone like mcleish because the difference is I believe in Lambert and what he's trying to do, I never believed in mcleish - he was the least inspiring Villa manager for me.
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Cheap and hungry are terms that doesn't mean a great deal. Quality is key, with the right physical attributes.
I don't know about that, really.
Some of the players he's brought in have enough quality and the right physical attributes. The problem is, there aren't any steady, seen-it-before heads there to calm the ship.
I said after Chelsea that the biggest challenge would be to manage to lift the young players after a trouncing like that. Spurs showed that, whatever it was, it didn't work. Today was actually worse than Spurs.
Lambert is a good manager and sacking him would be nuts, but if he goes through January buying more players of the type of Lowton, Westwood or Bennett, ie inexperienced kids, then it'll be his own fault if we get relegated as a result.
I'm sure i heard before Spurs that our most experienced PL player in the starting side was Barry Bannan with 55 appearances. That says it all.
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Paul Lambert on Wigan loss.
Paul Lambert lamented the home defeat to Wigan but insisted: "We keep on fighting."
Lambert said it was "a hard one to take" particularly since he saw the clash as a chance to start a climb up the table in front of an expectant Villa Park crowd.
But he said there was no time to let the frustration fester with a tough away clash at Swansea coming up on New Year's Day.
He said: "It's not great that's for sure when you lose a goal early doors at home, especially from a corner kick.
"We only had a twenty minute spell in the first half where we looked like ourselves and we had a couple of half chances.
"Then the second half there was a lot of endeavour but no creativity. The second goal was really poor, coming from a throw-in from Wigan.
"It was a hard one to take, that's for sure. It was disappointing because it was a chance for us to climb the table.
"Spurs are a really good side and so are Chelsea but we had an opportunity to pull away, especially at home, that's the disappointing thing.
"When you're competing with everyone else around you and you get turned over 3-0 at home, then it certainly hurts you, that's for sure.
"But you have to try and not let it fester, that's first and foremost. You have to put a stop to it.
"You have to keep their spirits up. You have to keep them believing and keep going. That's what you have to do.
"They will come in tomorrow and you pick them up again. There's two ways of going - you run with it and get going or roll over. We will keep on fighting.
"But the last three results have hurt us, no doubt about it because everyone was positive after the Liverpool game. But once three results go against you, there's a negativity.
"I understand that. I can see that. But I have the belief that Aston Villa will be fine."
Lambert admitted he's eager to see his crocked stars return, with big players like Gabby Agbonlahor, Ron Vlaar, Charles N'Zogbia, Darren Bent, Nathan Baker, Richard Dunne, Gary Gardner struggling for fitness.
He added: "That's the disappointing thing, that there are a lot of lads in the treatment room at the moment.
"Andi played at the last minute today. He had a calf problem. We never expected him to play. But he had a fitness test this morning. He came through it.
"We will have to wait and see how they are. But there are a lot of influential ones."
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
As Player-Manager?
That's genuinely the only way the idea could get any more fucking stupid.
Honestly, Risso, what's wrong with you? Have you gone mental or something? I used to think your Allardyce thing was mental enough, but Roy Keane, FFS?
I reckon Rissbert adopts the Adrian Durham/TalkSport attitude to things. Lets says something thats mental bollox and gets people riled so they ring in to the station and keep listening. Mr Woodall is probably paying him to say stuff so people stay online at H & V. I'm sure he doesn't really believe it. ;D
The very definition of "mental bollox" is to keep doing the same thing, and expecting the outcome to be different. Lambert is doing an appalling job, and after three humiliating defeats, on top of all of the other crap he's served up, his time should be up.
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I know what you mean Paulie. Vlaar and Dunne would make a world of difference. Warnock and Hutton would make ot worse!
We need a Stan in our midfield, we need a physical and dynamic player next to him.
I think you can get away with youthful, impetuous players in attacking areas, but not so much in the base of the spine.
Cahill is a wonderful centre half, but I have seen the Villa in better times molest him completely when he was at Bolton.
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Cheap and hungry are terms that doesn't mean a great deal. Quality is key, with the right physical attributes.
I don't know about that, really.
Some of the players he's brought in have enough quality and the right physical attributes. The problem is, there aren't any steady, seen-it-before heads there to calm the ship.
I said after Chelsea that the biggest challenge would be to manage to lift the young players after a trouncing like that. Spurs showed that, whatever it was, it didn't work. Today was actually worse than Spurs.
Lambert is a good manager and sacking him would be nuts, but if he goes through January buying more players of the type of Lowton, Westwood or Bennett, ie inexperienced kids, then it'll be his own fault if we get relegated as a result.
I'm sure i heard before Spurs that our most experienced PL player in the starting side was Barry Bannan with 55 appearances. That says it all.
True.
we just need the right balance in the team. I think having someone like petrov in team would make a big difference. If it can't be Petrov then a couple of players like petrov. I think its only a fine line from what we are now to being a top.10 team. we aren't as horrendous as people like to exaggerate. I see much more effort and self belief in this team than last season.
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It would be madness to get rid of Lambert now when we gave McLeish a full season; if he takes us down then fair play sack him but not now #dontpaniccaptainmainwaring
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Paul Lambert on Wigan loss.
Paul Lambert lamented the home defeat to Wigan but insisted: "We keep on fighting."
Lambert said it was "a hard one to take" particularly since he saw the clash as a chance to start a climb up the table in front of an expectant Villa Park crowd.
But he said there was no time to let the frustration fester with a tough away clash at Swansea coming up on New Year's Day.
He said: "It's not great that's for sure when you lose a goal early doors at home, especially from a corner kick.
"We only had a twenty minute spell in the first half where we looked like ourselves and we had a couple of half chances.
"Then the second half there was a lot of endeavour but no creativity. The second goal was really poor, coming from a throw-in from Wigan.
"It was a hard one to take, that's for sure. It was disappointing because it was a chance for us to climb the table.
"Spurs are a really good side and so are Chelsea but we had an opportunity to pull away, especially at home, that's the disappointing thing.
"When you're competing with everyone else around you and you get turned over 3-0 at home, then it certainly hurts you, that's for sure.
"But you have to try and not let it fester, that's first and foremost. You have to put a stop to it.
"You have to keep their spirits up. You have to keep them believing and keep going. That's what you have to do.
"They will come in tomorrow and you pick them up again. There's two ways of going - you run with it and get going or roll over. We will keep on fighting.
"But the last three results have hurt us, no doubt about it because everyone was positive after the Liverpool game. But once three results go against you, there's a negativity.
"I understand that. I can see that. But I have the belief that Aston Villa will be fine."
Lambert admitted he's eager to see his crocked stars return, with big players like Gabby Agbonlahor, Ron Vlaar, Charles N'Zogbia, Darren Bent, Nathan Baker, Richard Dunne, Gary Gardner struggling for fitness.
He added: "That's the disappointing thing, that there are a lot of lads in the treatment room at the moment.
"Andi played at the last minute today. He had a calf problem. We never expected him to play. But he had a fitness test this morning. He came through it.
"We will have to wait and see how they are. But there are a lot of influential ones."
Wow, inspirational stuff. We're truly lucky to have such a leader of men.
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Is there anything he can say which will go down well, right now?
That isn't "I'm stepping down, in favour of Roy Keane", obviously.
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
As Player-Manager?
That's genuinely the only way the idea could get any more fucking stupid.
Honestly, Risso, what's wrong with you? Have you gone mental or something? I used to think your Allardyce thing was mental enough, but Roy Keane, FFS?
I reckon Rissbert adopts the Adrian Durham/TalkSport attitude to things. Lets says something thats mental bollox and gets people riled so they ring in to the station and keep listening. Mr Woodall is probably paying him to say stuff so people stay online at H & V. I'm sure he doesn't really believe it. ;D
The very definition of "mental bollox" is to keep doing the same thing, and expecting the outcome to be different. Lambert is doing an appalling job, and after three humiliating defeats, on top of all of the other crap he's served up, his time should be up.
OK, we might not be where we want to be, but the dynamics of this team compared to last is obvious. lots of determination and belief. Lamberts trying to put the pieces together but you wont give him the chance to finish.
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He said something to Pat Murphy, in that he will protect the players from the media but that "they will know where they've gone wrong" when he speaks to them.
He also held his hands up, rightly so too, for the abysmal performance.
The midfield needs Paul Lambert.
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I know what you mean Paulie. Vlaar and Dunne would make a world of difference. Warnock and Hutton would make ot worse!
We need a Stan in our midfield, we need a physical and dynamic player next to him.
I think you can get away with youthful, impetuous players in attacking areas, but not so much in the base of the spine.
Cahill is a wonderful centre half, but I have seen the Villa in better times molest him completely when he was at Bolton.
I think those Cahill molestings were mainly due to a succession of Bolton managers opting to play a mental high line against us when we had plenty of space.
re Petrov, that's too true, we don't half miss him this season.
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Is there anything he can say which will go down well, right now?
That isn't "I'm stepping down, in favour of Roy Keane", obviously.
Not really. It wouldn't be understandable in any case, I've heard tramps in the street off their box on meths who talk more coherently than Lambert.
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Determination, Situation, but no belief. In fact, I wouldn't even say determination - it implies stoicism, which I think these players have lost entirely. The manner of the Chelsea defeat has utterly destroyed their hard-one, fragile confidence.
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Is there anything he can say which will go down well, right now?
That isn't "I'm stepping down, in favour of Roy Keane", obviously.
Not really. It wouldn't be understandable in any case, I've heard tramps in the street off their box on meths who talk more coherently than Lambert.
I don't think it's fair to attack the man's accent.
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Is there anything he can say which will go down well, right now?
That isn't "I'm stepping down, in favour of Roy Keane", obviously.
Not really. It wouldn't be understandable in any case, I've heard tramps in the street off their box on meths who talk more coherently than Lambert.
So, you're Lerner, you're annoyed this evening.
What do you do?
It's all well and good losing your rag and getting fucked off (as we all are) and wanting blood, but what do you actually think the club should do now?
The transfer window opens in a couple of days, so you'll need to keep that in mind.
You sack him now, then what? What are you going to do in the morning?
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Cheap and hungry are terms that doesn't mean a great deal. Quality is key, with the right physical attributes.
All this talk about buying new players in the window is fine, but which quality, experienced players that could really make a difference are going to want to join us right now? Not very many I'll bet.
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He hasn't had a fair crack of the whip yet. Give him time.
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I wonder where we would be now if the Baby- faced Assassin had took the job ?
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Is there anything he can say which will go down well, right now?
That isn't "I'm stepping down, in favour of Roy Keane", obviously.
"Sorry, that prolific poster on the internet is right, Im an appalling manager and its stupid of me not to play Hutton, Warnock and Given"
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Cheap and hungry are terms that doesn't mean a great deal. Quality is key, with the right physical attributes.
All this talk about buying new players in the window is fine, but which quality, experienced players that could really make a difference are going to want to join us right now? Not very many I'll bet.
It wasn't a problem for Darren Bent.
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I wonder where we would be now if the Baby- faced Assassin had took the job ?
If it went this badly, I reckon I could have a decent guess at the first person calling for his head.
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Is there anything he can say which will go down well, right now?
That isn't "I'm stepping down, in favour of Roy Keane", obviously.
"Sorry, that prolific poster on the internet is right, Im an appalling manager and its stupid of me not to play Hutton, Warnock and Given"
The same poster that's wanted very single manager out since This Internet site began you mean ?
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Cheap and hungry are terms that doesn't mean a great deal. Quality is key, with the right physical attributes.
All this talk about buying new players in the window is fine, but which quality, experienced players that could really make a difference are going to want to join us right now? Not very many I'll bet.
They'll come if you offer them enough cash. The trouble is Lerner only likes to offer YTS wages. That's why we look to the lower leagues.
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Is there anything he can say which will go down well, right now?
That isn't "I'm stepping down, in favour of Roy Keane", obviously.
Not really. It wouldn't be understandable in any case, I've heard tramps in the street off their box on meths who talk more coherently than Lambert.
So, you're Lerner, you're annoyed this evening.
What do you do?
It's all well and good losing your rag and getting fucked off (as we all are) and wanting blood, but what do you actually think the club should do now?
The transfer window opens in a couple of days, so you'll need to keep that in mind.
You sack him now, then what? What are you going to do in the morning?
I'd like him to actually step up and show some leadership. He should be meeting with Lambert within the next couple of days and discussing the way forward and possible transfer targets for the next few weeks. It would also be nice to see him relay some of his thoughts in the press and try and reassure some of the doubters.
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Cheap and hungry are terms that doesn't mean a great deal. Quality is key, with the right physical attributes.
All this talk about buying new players in the window is fine, but which quality, experienced players that could really make a difference are going to want to join us right now? Not very many I'll bet.
It wasn't a problem for Darren Bent.
The team Bent joined is hardly comparable with what we have now though.
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Cheap and hungry are terms that doesn't mean a great deal. Quality is key, with the right physical attributes.
All this talk about buying new players in the window is fine, but which quality, experienced players that could really make a difference are going to want to join us right now? Not very many I'll bet.
It wasn't a problem for Darren Bent.
The team Bent joined is hardly comparable with what we have now though.
It was in the relegation area (or thereabouts) and clearly not good enough.
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Is there anything he can say which will go down well, right now?
That isn't "I'm stepping down, in favour of Roy Keane", obviously.
Not really. It wouldn't be understandable in any case, I've heard tramps in the street off their box on meths who talk more coherently than Lambert.
So, you're Lerner, you're annoyed this evening.
What do you do?
It's all well and good losing your rag and getting fucked off (as we all are) and wanting blood, but what do you actually think the club should do now?
The transfer window opens in a couple of days, so you'll need to keep that in mind.
You sack him now, then what? What are you going to do in the morning?
I'd like him to actually step up and show some leadership. He should be meeting with Lambert within the next couple of days and discussing the way forward and possible transfer targets for the next few weeks. It would also be nice to see him relay some of his thoughts in the press and try and reassure some of the doubters.
No, that was for Risso, and assuming he'd sacked Lambert.
I just fancied hearing what he proposed to do having satisfied his (in some ways understandable) blood lust and sacked the current manager right now.
Then what?
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Its a moronic point really when you think about it.
To sack him now, before the window opens, when we desperately need to reinforce?
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Lerner out ASAP! He is useless...end of!
And how are you going to facilitate Lerner out of our club? He owns it and till we find a buyer who will deliver a profit for him he is here to stay ...end of!
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Its a moronic point really when you think about it.
To sack him now, before the window opens, when we desperately need to reinforce?
It'd be utter, utter fucking madness.
It'd be like when Newcastle appointed Alan Shearer. I remember hearing that news and thinking "they're doomed", and they were.
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Its a moronic point really when you think about it.
To sack him now, before the window opens, when we desperately need to reinforce?
FFS did you not hear his radio comments? No experienced players to be signed in jan
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
As Player-Manager?
And also Director of Football
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He didn't say that. He danced around it.
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-Gardner (would be our best midfielder but for injuries
Based on what?
A handful of appearances?
If we were considering such an untried kid to be our best midfielder, it'd show just how much shit we were in.
It's delusion. He's just another in a long line of young Villa kids who never amount to much. We keep talking up our youth system when in reality they're really just average. I think Lerner fell for it big time and felt we were churning out out great players through a youth academy akin to Ajax. How wrong he was.
I have started to think along these lines now as well, I keep hearing how good these players will be that are coming through, in reality as you say they are just very average players. I think the academy is very good at what it does but how many players who have come through recently can we actually say are good top flight players, I can't think of many.
We sold Cahill,Ridgewell,Whittingham and Gardner who would have improved the team today.The problem has been the huge waste of money on bringing in players.
Given,Makoun,Hutton,Warnock,Ireland,Delph,Davies ,Nzogbia ,Dunne and Bent adds up to £75-80m and a probable loss of £50m plus.All bought by former managers and financed by the board. We have spent very badly.
Playing devil's advocate for a nano second, people were saying the same things about those young players above when they were with us (with the obvious exception of Cahil.)
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If he wanted to do one thing to deflate the kids even more, it'd be to talk about signing experience in the coming weeks. It's not surprising he danced around it.
Lerner needs to support him, and it needs to be playrs who will command higher wages than kids from Boro or Sheffield United. That's the key to it. If he doesn't do it, then we are screwed, and there's not a manager around who could stop that.
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Is there anything he can say which will go down well, right now?
That isn't "I'm stepping down, in favour of Roy Keane", obviously.
Not really. It wouldn't be understandable in any case, I've heard tramps in the street off their box on meths who talk more coherently than Lambert.
I don't think it's fair to attack the man's accent.
When communication is such a vital part of his job description, I think it's fair to question. Benfica hired Graeme Souness who couldn't speak a word of Portuguese. Okay, he was a shit coach but if you can't speak to your players, how do you get your message across. Not that I'm saying that's the case with Lambert, despite struggling at times to understand him.
Lambert's main fault is he doesn't do 'cautious'. Great in principle but rarely works against well drilled teams, even Wigan. His tactics are far too gung-ho and he's getting spanked by more thoughtful managers week in, week out at the moment.
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There was a period where -prior to his switch to QPR (and against my better instincts) where I'd have considered Redknobb.
He's an insufferable buffoon, but players actually want to play for him (for some weird reason) and he'd have generated positive publicity about the place. Until the next instalment of his dodgy financial dealings (allegedo) cam to light, obv.
There's no a huge science to what he does, he buys good players, plays them in their rightful positions and plays a positive brand of football. In some ways, the closest thing in the league at present to BFR.
Naturally, now he's at QPR I hope he takes them down by about March and they go bust.
For us, we have to stick.
Unless there is a very obvious candidate that will improve us dramatically, Lambert should get the chance to turn things around.
Some of his signings have been inspired, and -despite all the guff about wanting to go with young players only- he did try to sign the likes of Dempsey and Defoe in the summer. If the right players are available, he'll sign them, regardless of age, I reckon.
We're just about covered for young up and coming players for most positions now. We need older heads.
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Worst goal difference , lowest goals scored and most goals conceded in the premier league - lambert really has me worried, I wanted him to get the job but I never imagined things would be this bad.
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Cheap and hungry are terms that doesn't mean a great deal. Quality is key, with the right physical attributes.
All this talk about buying new players in the window is fine, but which quality, experienced players that could really make a difference are going to want to join us right now? Not very many I'll bet.
They'll come if you offer them enough cash. The trouble is Lerner only likes to offer YTS wages. That's why we look to the lower leagues.
Except when we sign Bent, Ireland, N'zogbia etc?
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Does Lambert use the Ardiles principle?
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He didn't say that. He danced around it.
Not from what I heard he didn't dance around it , he said he believes the young hungry players policy is still the way to go and experinced players guarantee nothing- the club have been down that road in recent years and where has it taken them.
Hardly implies he will be going for experience.
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What I took from it was that he was more willing to gamble on a hungry player. Whether that means young, is something we've all inferred.
If the right old boy is available, I think he'd do it.
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What I took from it was that he was more willing to gamble on a hungry player. Whether that means young, is something we've all inferred.
If the right old boy is available, I think he'd do it.
May sound odd but I wonder if he is one of those managers who are uncomfortable handling big name players, he hasn't exactly done well with bent, given, nzogbia or Ireland and seems more comfortable with lesser known names.
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What I took from it was that he was more willing to gamble on a hungry player. Whether that means young, is something we've all inferred.
If the right old boy is available, I think he'd do it.
May sound odd but I wonder if he is one of those managers who are uncomfortable handling big name players, he hasn't exactly done well with bent, given, nzogbia or Ireland and seems more comfortable with lesser known names.
Bent maybe, especially the dropping, but Nzog and Ireland (and some extent Given) have all been played and all not done the business as senior players.
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At the end of the day Lambert will sign someone in the transfer window, experience or not, who will make a difference. He isn't going to hint that we WILL make signings as the next question will be: "What targets do you have in mind?" for example. Just give him time, it's a working progress and will take time unlike McLeish and Houllier.
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What I took from it was that he was more willing to gamble on a hungry player. Whether that means young, is something we've all inferred.
If the right old boy is available, I think he'd do it.
May sound odd but I wonder if he is one of those managers who are uncomfortable handling big name players, he hasn't exactly done well with bent, given, nzogbia or Ireland and seems more comfortable with lesser known names.
Bent maybe, especially the dropping, but Nzog and Ireland (and some extent Given) have all been played and all not done the business as senior players.
But isn't it his job to get the best out of his senior players?
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If we have a wage cap of say 30k a week. Who could Lambert have signed?
We need to bite the bullet and pay People like Diame the money they want.
His agent as a good as said, he has a 3.5 million but out clause, because he is not on the wages he wants, he can either go for 3.5 or West Ham can renegotiate.
But to slate Lambert who has a plan and vision for our future.
Vlaar and Dunne as CB with Clark and Baker as back up, that's a good defence, but 3 are injured.
KEA is an experienced midfielder, that started great, got suspended, then couldn't get back in due to the good form of Bannan and Westwood. Who would have thought, all 3 would lose their form at the same time.
Paul Lambert is working to a budget and does not have free reign, he isn't lumbering our club with journeymen like McLeish and MON, he is trying to build our club up and secure a healthy future.
Yes we have hit a blip, due mainly to injuries, but we have to stick with him he is the right man.
The last two years injuries played a big part and it wasn't till the experienced players came back we actually secured our league status.
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It would be madness to sack Lambert now. As others have pointed out the transfer window is a few days away, besides who would we get in or more to the point, who would want to come in? Its been an horrendous set of results of late, and the season itself has been hugely disappointing to put it mildly. I see the main problem being the lack of numbers and experience, I for one would gamble on Lambert rectifying this in January subject to Lerner backing him.
Also I don't like this 3 or 5 at the back and hope Lambert changes this for Swansea.
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If we have a wage cap of say 30k a week. Who could Lambert have signed?
We need to bite the bullet and pay People like Diame the money they want.
His agent as a good as said, he has a 3.5 million but out clause, because he is not on the wages he wants, he can either go for 3.5 or West Ham can renegotiate.
But to slate Lambert who has a plan and vision for our future.
Vlaar and Dunne as CB with Clark and Baker as back up, that's a good defence, but 3 are injured.
KEA is an experienced midfielder, that started great, got suspended, then couldn't get back in due to the good form of Bannan and Westwood. Who would have thought, all 3 would lose their form at the same time.
Paul Lambert is working to a budget and does not have free reign, he isn't lumbering our club with journeymen like McLeish and MON, he is trying to build our club up and secure a healthy future.
Yes we have hit a blip, due mainly to injuries, but we have to stick with him he is the right man.
The last two years injuries played a big part and it wasn't till the experienced players came back we actually secured our league status.
Hit a blip? 0-8, 0-4 and 0-3 is more than a blip.
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The big concern just like last year is there is no defined style of attacking play. Yes at times there's some o.k passing football but it fizzles out all too quickly or we just pass backwards.
Look at our 4 wins this season. Swansea was a good performance but in reality was a false dawn as we lost at Southampton 4-1 and that set us back for a good month in the league, we played o.k at Sunderland, Reading was really a 0-0 game but Benteke popped up and his individual brilliance pretty much won us the game at Anfield.
The play under MON was boring, rigid and predictable but at least we knew what we were going to get in terms of style of play and against the majority of the league it worked.
Just like under TSM, I'm struggling to see what the play is apart from hoping for some individual brilliance to win us the game.
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There is no focus point in the link between the midfield and attack.
We need somebody with pace qnd a bit of flair qho can get beyond the frontmen or put in a good delivery.
Its a spot where we have to buy a youthful player, unless we want to spend mega money. Get Vlaar fit, get somebody of quality alongside him, give Westwood a bruiser for a partner, sign the link-man and we have a chance.
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Should have sacked him a month ago and got Harry Redknapp in ;D
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Is our best chance of making the most of our better players is by signing players to supplement them. Let's get someone to put crosses in the box for Benteke and Bent. Let's get a fighter along side Westwood. Let's get someone with some pace along side Vlaar. Like what Ads said. Pretty accurate.
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I was there today, Lambert is ballsing it up, no doubt, but i'd rather have Mick Mills take over than Roy Keane, he's an arrogant wanker who would get the kids backs up straight way. Martin surprises me suggesting him though as he knows full well where the problem lies - It's the retarded, sit on his hands owner who has been more than happy to watch us enjoy a slow death since O'Neill flounced off.
We need wholesale changes with heavy investment, this will not happen until this idiotic moron of a man decides to sell up.
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What I took from it was that he was more willing to gamble on a hungry player. Whether that means young, is something we've all inferred.
If the right old boy is available, I think he'd do it.
May sound odd but I wonder if he is one of those managers who are uncomfortable handling big name players, he hasn't exactly done well with bent, given, nzogbia or Ireland and seems more comfortable with lesser known names.
Bent maybe, especially the dropping, but Nzog and Ireland (and some extent Given) have all been played and all not done the business as senior players.
But isn't it his job to get the best out of his senior players?
Well he is the 2nd one we have who hasn't got anything out of Nzog and the 3rd one (4th including Pardew) who hasn't got anything out of Ireland. At a certain point the players needs to be looked at and not the manager.
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There is no focus point in the link between the midfield and attack.
We need somebody with pace qnd a bit of flair qho can get beyond the frontmen or put in a good delivery.
Its a spot where we have to buy a youthful player, unless we want to spend mega money. Get Vlaar fit, get somebody of quality alongside him, give Westwood a bruiser for a partner, sign the link-man and we have a chance.
We need exactly what/how Robbie Keane was last season for us.
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How did Lambert attract Norwich's attention. Like taking his side,Colchester,to Carrow Road and humiliating them 7-1. In January,he then takes Norwich back to his old club,Colchester,and thrashes them 5-0. Turning a 7-1 home defeat into a 5-0 away win against the same opposition.
Then achieve 2 successive promotions and safety in the PL with a solid side built on a meagre budget.
To think of sacking a manager with that ability is sheer lunacy.
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How did Lambert attract Norwich's attention. Like taking his side,Colchester,to Carrow Road and humiliating them 7-1. In January,he then takes Norwich back to his old club,Colchester,and thrashes them 5-0. Turning a 7-1 home defeat into a 5-0 away win against the same opposition.
Then achieve 2 successive promotions and safety in the PL with a solid side built on a meagre budget.
To think of sacking a manager with that ability is sheer lunacy.
As i've said, the main problem lies with Lerner, but this rabid obsession with (inadequate) youth has to stop.
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Inadequate players are the problem.Their age is immaterial.
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To think of sacking a manager with that ability is sheer lunacy.
If we ever finish top half of the Premiership with him i'll buy you a pint. Relegated, almost certain
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There is no focus point in the link between the midfield and attack.
We need somebody with pace qnd a bit of flair qho can get beyond the frontmen or put in a good delivery.
Its a spot where we have to buy a youthful player, unless we want to spend mega money. Get Vlaar fit, get somebody of quality alongside him, give Westwood a bruiser for a partner, sign the link-man and we have a chance.
Spot on & take away the reliance on home grown players, who are plainly not good enough.
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What I took from it was that he was more willing to gamble on a hungry player. Whether that means young, is something we've all inferred.
If the right old boy is available, I think he'd do it.
May sound odd but I wonder if he is one of those managers who are uncomfortable handling big name players, he hasn't exactly done well with bent, given, nzogbia or Ireland and seems more comfortable with lesser known names.
Bent maybe, especially the dropping, but Nzog and Ireland (and some extent Given) have all been played and all not done the business as senior players.
But isn't it his job to get the best out of his senior players?
Well he is the 2nd one we have who hasn't got anything out of Nzog and the 3rd one (4th including Pardew) who hasn't got anything out of Ireland. At a certain point the players needs to be looked at and not the manager.
Exactly. Part of the problem is that we're lacking in leadership/experience, although Lambert chose inexperience in the Summer at that time the squad still possessed it.
For whatever reason (and some of these reasons are Lambert's own choice) the likes of Given, Dunne, Warnock, Hutton, N'Zogbia an Bent are not contributing.
That's half a team of internationals earning top 6 wages who possess the experience we miss. And that's why we resemble a reserve side at the minute.
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The club is shit from top to bottom, sadly. Sacking Lambert would be pointless for two reasons. Firstly, he's trying to do the right things. Secondly, as everything else is so crap, it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever at the moment.
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The most worrying thing for me was that Lambert appeared flat and mumbling during his questioning by Pat Murphy. He needs to be more clear, concise, upbeat and decisive. Otherwise there is no chance that he will be able to motivate players and young ones at that, out of this current horrible spell.
I saw our players "die" today after their second goal and it was only Wigan's lack of killer instinct and the introduction of 3 subs that kept the score down.
I think he should have introduced subs straight after their 2nd goal to make a bigger impact however he delayed that which points to indecisiveness. Coaches like Fergie and Murinho would have not waited a second.
However I am still behind him. He needs to fix this.
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OK, possibly the least surprising post ever from me, but I've had enough. I accept that he was the most obvious and preferred choice in the summer, but it isn't working and he's going to get us relegated. Our worst start to a season, the worst goal difference in the league, two goals a game conceded, our record top flight defeat, and now three humiliating defeats in a row that have destroyed the lest remnants of any confidence the team once had. Getting battered at home by a team like Wigan who had one point in their previous however many games was the last straw. Yes, we all wanted him, but it just isn't working, and it was Lambert's choice to spend 20m on a team full of lower league kids, and players like Bennett, KEA, Bowery and Westwood just aren't good enough for a Premier League team, especially given how poor the rest of our team is.
I also realise that it wouldn't be the the best time to ditch him, but how can you retain somebody who is performing so poorly? The football isn't even any improvement on last year, and the results are far, far worse. So at present, I'd have him on a par with McNeill for paucity of performance.
As for who we'd get in, a short term fixer to try and keep us up. Di Matteo maybe? Or somebody like Roy Keane to give everybody a kick up the arse, as one thing Lambert clearly can't do is motivate anybody.
Right, where's me tin hat?
Do you really want to get rid of the manager or is this just a round about way of having a go at Lerner.
You have also said that you would rather have McLeish than Lambert. By this I assume you mean McLeish's methods rather than Lambert's. Alright, let's start with transfers. McLeish spent £15-20m on Given, Hutton and N'Zogbia. Lambert spent about the same on Benteke, Vlaar, Westwood, Bennett, Lowton and KEA and brought back Guzan. Which set of players gives you greater hope for the future.
I could go on but why bother, you have made your mind up and have for a long time.
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To be fair, for the last 2 or 3 poor seasons, i have been saying get rid of the over paid dross that we have, and lets have a look at the kids.Well we have, collectively, and i have to say we are desperately in need of some experienced players.I am all in favour of buying young up and coming players, the skill is to integrate them into the team at the right time.Lets hope PL has that ability.
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How did Lambert attract Norwich's attention. Like taking his side,Colchester,to Carrow Road and humiliating them 7-1. In January,he then takes Norwich back to his old club,Colchester,and thrashes them 5-0. Turning a 7-1 home defeat into a 5-0 away win against the same opposition.
Then achieve 2 successive promotions and safety in the PL with a solid side built on a meagre budget.
To think of sacking a manager with that ability is sheer lunacy.
Exactly how I feel. Norwich squad was together longer than ours tho when they made it to the premier league so they were more stable than our squad it seems to me
Like I said in a previous post he has assembled a championship quality side but the problem comes from the top and he has worked with funds/wages given to him by lerner. But did we expect much else considering its been this way for a few seasons now with cutting back etc? It all seems like people are shocked by this.
Lerner needs to invest in jan and thats the bottom line for me. If he does lambert will guide us out of danger. If lerner doesnt invest we will be in trouble.
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To be fair, for the last 2 or 3 poor seasons, i have been saying get rid of the over paid dross that we have, and lets have a look at the kids.Well we have, collectively, and i have to say we are desperately in need of some experienced players.I am all in favour of buying young up and coming players, the skill is to integrate them into the team at the right time.Lets hope PL has that ability.
My view as well. It is not either/or regarding young or experienced players, it is a combination of the two. The key is having experienced players with the right attitude. I am afraid some of our dross did not/do not. I was/am fed up with players believing football owes them a living.
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Some interesting debate on here tonight as always and lots to think about- I can only hope the new year brings new hope , things Can't get much worse than this.
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If Lambert were Spurs manager, or Everton, or Newcastle, Liverpool.... Would he still be in a job?
I hate putting the boot into managers so it's not nice to say, but after today he appears incapable of preparing a team fit for purpose (staying in this league). I'd have to seriously question his decision of going with the same shape as the previous two defeats for todays game.
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Paul Lambert will meet Aston Villa owner Randy Lerner for crisis talks today after the Christmas holiday from hell.
The Villa boss sat stunned as his young side collapsed 3-0 against Wigan yesterday.
Read Sunday Mirror match report - Claret and oh so blue: Villa drop closer to relegation zone with abject display against Wigan
They have now let in 15 goals in three games over seven days.
And the home fans, who have until now stuck behind the former Norwich manager, showed the first signs of rebellion.
There were boos around Villa Park at the final whistle and many other fans had got up and walked out as early as the 55th minute when Wigan’s third goal went in.
Lambert admitted: “The last three results have really hurt us. Everybody was very positive after the Liverpool game.
“I understand the reaction of the fans. I can see that, I just have to keep the belief that Aston Villa will be fine.
“I will discuss it with the chairman, but what I have to say will remain private.
“We have got to put a stop to this. I just have to keep the spirits of the players up, keep them believing that they are good enough. That’s what you try to do.”
Lambert controversially left Norwich last summer to succeed Alex McLeish in the Villa Park hot-seat. So far, he has failed to halt the decline that had set in at the club.
Lambert went on: “This football club has been in a struggle for the last couple of seasons. I knew the job was massive when I took it.
“But it is an amazing club that has a great tradition. I’ve got no regrets about taking over, none whatsoever.
“This game was a chance for us to try to climb the table, especially at home, and that is the disappointment.
“The defeats against Chelsea and Spurs, well, they are top sides.
“But when you are competing with clubs around about you in the table and you get beaten 3-0 at home, well, it certainly hurts you.”
Lambert has set his managerial store around a policy of buying young players – he spent £27m in the summer on seven new players, none of whom had been in the Premier League before.
But their lack of experience began to show as Wigan scored goals from Ivan Ramis, Emmerson Boyce and Arouna Kone to climb out of the relegation zone.
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Sounds like a manager trying to make excuses with the stuff about previous seasons struggles. Really, this sounds eerily like McLeish last season with the massive club, not sorry I took the job, "Top sides" / "Elite Clubs".
It's really quite depressing.
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I think one of the issue we have is that the experience still in the squad there are a few that are total shitbags. Hutton, Warnock, Ireland IMO, are not great examples and are not leaders. Bent isn't either, KEA has been really poor and Holman is bloody awful most of the time.
As such, Vlaar and Gabby are the best of the more experienced players. We need 2-3 more through the side to bring it up to par.
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OK, possibly the least surprising post ever from me, but I've had enough. I accept that he was the most obvious and preferred choice in the summer, but it isn't working and he's going to get us relegated. Our worst start to a season, the worst goal difference in the league, two goals a game conceded, our record top flight defeat, and now three humiliating defeats in a row that have destroyed the lest remnants of any confidence the team once had. Getting battered at home by a team like Wigan who had one point in their previous however many games was the last straw. Yes, we all wanted him, but it just isn't working, and it was Lambert's choice to spend 20m on a team full of lower league kids, and players like Bennett, KEA, Bowery and Westwood just aren't good enough for a Premier League team, especially given how poor the rest of our team is.
I also realise that it wouldn't be the the best time to ditch him, but how can you retain somebody who is performing so poorly? The football isn't even any improvement on last year, and the results are far, far worse. So at present, I'd have him on a par with McNeill for paucity of performance.
As for who we'd get in, a short term fixer to try and keep us up. Di Matteo maybe? Or somebody like Roy Keane to give everybody a kick up the arse, as one thing Lambert clearly can't do is motivate anybody.
Right, where's me tin hat?
On the whole his signings were excellent. He got a decent centre forward, right back, central midfielder and central defender for £20m - and within the wage structure.
His main failing has been his inability to integrate and get performances out of the experienced players - mainly Bent, but also Gabby and in a round about way Warnock. Ireland is basket case for which he can't possibly be blamed.
Plus he's been unlucky with injuries - was it Napolean who preferred lucky generals?
His options as I see them are:-
(a) persuade the board to sanction the purchase of top quality players with proven experience - ie repeat of Bent purchase
(b) pay (presumably) high wages for loan/short term contract players - eg Lampard, Parker, Keane
(c) pull a rabbit out of the hat with a gem or two from abroad
If he can't get a combination of the above within the next month then he's fubar and he might as well resign now - at least ths would point out the failings of Lerner and Faulkener and might actually move the club forward .
AP
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Would love to be a fly on the wall at these so called showdown talks between lambert and Lerner tomorrow.
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
How long would you then give it before you starting crucifying him? Or Barry Chuckle? Or Avram Grant? Or whoever we'd reduced ourselves to employing?
The problem is not the manager. It is the absentee chairman who quite clearly doesn't really care too much any more.
Paulie, I usually agree with your thoughts, but do you really believe that Lambert is not even slightly culpable for this mess. He picks the team, he chooses the formation, the tactics, he's the motivator.
I can scarcely comprehend what I am seeing at the moment and Lambert has to take serious responsibility for what is going on. The team seem to lack even the most basic fundamentals of a functioning unit. The ineptitude is absolutely staggering. Basic passes going astray, continual poor decision making. Lack of effort, fight, passion.
Attitude and ability completely lacking. Lambert is getting away with murder at the moment. Any Division Two side would have put up more of a show over the last three games.
Lambert needs to deconstruct everything he is doing right now and reconsider what makes a team function. Injuries and youth do not excuse the horrors of the last 3 games. No way.
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Would love to be a fly on the wall at these so called showdown talks between lambert and Lerner tomorrow.
Quite
LAMBERT 'we need newsignings....mumble....mumble....braveheart....we go again......'
LERNER 'Huh huh huh, I need to stroke ma dicky now.'
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Would love to be a fly on the wall at these so called showdown talks between lambert and Lerner tomorrow.
Quite
LAMBERT 'we need newsignings....mumble....mumble....braveheart....we go again......'
LERNER 'Huh huh huh, I need to stroke ma dicky now.'
These aren't showdown talks as in "you're fired", rather I'd imagine they are talks about a transfer budget. I would rather hope that this budget is swelled as a result of Lerner being present today, but, you never know.
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Would love to be a fly on the wall at these so called showdown talks between lambert and Lerner tomorrow.
Quite
LAMBERT 'we need newsignings....mumble....mumble....braveheart....we go again......'
LERNER 'Huh huh huh, I need to stroke ma dicky now.'
Funniest post I've seen in ages- good job we can still find humour in our current plight!
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Would love to be a fly on the wall at these so called showdown talks between lambert and Lerner tomorrow.
Quite
LAMBERT 'we need newsignings....mumble....mumble....braveheart....we go again......'
LERNER 'Huh huh huh, I need to stroke ma dicky now.'
Funniest post I've seen in ages- good job we can still find humour in our current plight!
Me too, it made me laugh!
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The club is shit from top to bottom, sadly. Sacking Lambert would be pointless for two reasons. Firstly, he's trying to do the right things. Secondly, as everything else is so crap, it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever at the moment.
What is it that he's trying to do that's so special that sticking with him makes sense? He's given us our worst ever start to a season, our record defeat and a current run that means just about every other footy fan in the world is laughing at us. If his football was particularly brilliant, then fair enough I'd say stick with him, but he's hardly Pep Guardiola. He's still just being given time because he isn't McLeish, pure and simple. This idiot is taking us down, make no mistake. 15 goals scored and 39 goals conceded in 20 games is breathtakingly poor. He's doing far, far worse than McLeish, but because he isn't McLeish, he's being given an easy ride.
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We can not just keep firing managers, the likely replacements would be even worse. Of course Lambert is responsible for the peformanes good and bad. His biggest mistake was believing this squad and particularly this midfield was good enough for the Prem. It was naive in the extreme.
Our best chance and i believe our only chance is to give the Guy January and funds to sort it out, we are a couple of players and the return of some injuries away from a team capable of survival.
i said after last season the job to get rid of the deadwoood and replace them was a massive task, he has had 1 window. and to see the likes of Warnock Dunne Nzogbia Ireland Hutton off the payroll and adequate replacements found is going to need a lot more time.
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Sack Lambert and get Roy Keane in?
I am struggling to think of a more stupid idea.
How long would you then give it before you starting crucifying him? Or Barry Chuckle? Or Avram Grant? Or whoever we'd reduced ourselves to employing?
The problem is not the manager. It is the absentee chairman who quite clearly doesn't really care too much any more.
Paulie, I usually agree with your thoughts, but do you really believe that Lambert is not even slightly culpable for this mess. He picks the team, he chooses the formation, the tactics, he's the motivator.
I can scarcely comprehend what I am seeing at the moment and Lambert has to take serious responsibility for what is going on. The team seem to lack even the most basic fundamentals of a functioning unit. The ineptitude is absolutely staggering. Basic passes going astray, continual poor decision making. Lack of effort, fight, passion.
Attitude and ability completely lacking. Lambert is getting away with murder at the moment. Any Division Two side would have put up more of a show over the last three games.
Lambert needs to deconstruct everything he is doing right now and reconsider what makes a team function. Injuries and youth do not excuse the horrors of the last 3 games. No way.
Of course he is guilty for some of it.
That still doesn't answer the question, though. Sack Lambert tonight, and then tomorrow, what do we do?
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The club is shit from top to bottom, sadly. Sacking Lambert would be pointless for two reasons. Firstly, he's trying to do the right things. Secondly, as everything else is so crap, it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever at the moment.
What is it that he's trying to do that's so special that sticking with him makes sense? He's given us our worst ever start to a season, our record defeat and a current run that means just about every other footy fan in the world is laughing at us. If his football was particularly brilliant, then fair enough I'd say stick with him, but he's hardly Pep Guardiola. He's still just being given time because he isn't McLeish, pure and simple. This idiot is taking us down, make no mistake. 15 goals scored and 39 goals conceded in 20 games is breathtakingly poor. He's doing far, far worse than McLeish, but because he isn't McLeish, he's being given an easy ride.
So, once again, we sack him, and then what?
Two days before the window opens, what do we do?
It's all well and good moaning and screaming for the sack, but its not a guarantee things are going to get better.
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Probably felt more depressed today, than any time under TSM .But would still rather have Lambert in charge and still think if we can survive this season , we will be okay.
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Sacking Lambert will be pointless if the owner doesn't change his buying policy. What manager of substance would come here at the moment with no money available to bring in some quality additions to the squad? We have to stick with Lambert and not forget his outstanding managerial record of the previous three seasons. We also need our ever growing injury list to shrink.
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The club is shit from top to bottom, sadly. Sacking Lambert would be pointless for two reasons. Firstly, he's trying to do the right things. Secondly, as everything else is so crap, it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever at the moment.
What is it that he's trying to do that's so special that sticking with him makes sense? He's given us our worst ever start to a season, our record defeat and a current run that means just about every other footy fan in the world is laughing at us. If his football was particularly brilliant, then fair enough I'd say stick with him, but he's hardly Pep Guardiola. He's still just being given time because he isn't McLeish, pure and simple. This idiot is taking us down, make no mistake. 15 goals scored and 39 goals conceded in 20 games is breathtakingly poor. He's doing far, far worse than McLeish, but because he isn't McLeish, he's being given an easy ride.
So, once again, we sack him, and then what?
Two days before the window opens, what do we do?
It's all well and good moaning and screaming for the sack, but its not a guarantee things are going to get better.
You're right of course, no guarantee. It comes down to whether sticking or twisting is the best gamble - and it is a gamble both ways.
In more than any other season, this is *the* worst season to go down. So, Lambert is a good young manager but is he going to keep us up? Is there a better bet? That's what I'd be asking myself if I were Randy Lerner this evening.
Then, in an ideal world, I'd be asking myself what would be the lowest bid I'd accept for Aston Villa to cut my losses and let somebody else have a go.
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I am pretty sure that Lambert is as shocked as we are, i have thought that Lichaj Holman Kea Bannan are fine as squad players but as regulars playing together they are not up to it. Hopefully he has worked this out and that the replacements like Nzog and Ireland will not help.
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Would love to be a fly on the wall at these so called showdown talks between lambert and Lerner tomorrow.
Quite
LAMBERT 'we need newsignings....mumble....mumble....braveheart....we go again......'
LERNER 'Huh huh huh, I need to stroke ma dicky now.'
Superb.
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Its a moronic point really when you think about it.
To sack him now, before the window opens, when we desperately need to reinforce?
It'd be utter, utter fucking madness.
It'd be like when Newcastle appointed Alan Shearer. I remember hearing that news and thinking "they're doomed", and they were.
Actually, if Lambert gets sacked at all, it has to be right now, so that his replacement has a transfer window to work with.
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Alex McLeish did not get the £30m he had, allegedly, been promised in January.
It is clear what needs to be done this time. Unfortunately, it now needs far more than £30m. Once the poison banners start going up it will be too late.
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If Lambert were Spurs manager, or Everton, or Newcastle, Liverpool.... Would he still be in a job?
I hate putting the boot into managers so it's not nice to say, but after today he appears incapable of preparing a team fit for purpose (staying in this league). I'd have to seriously question his decision of going with the same shape as the previous two defeats for todays game.
He hasn't taken over Spurs,Everton etc,he's inherited a team that's been involved in relegation battles the last 2 seasons.Last year he was renowned for changing systems.At the moment,with a horrific injury list,he hasn't got 2 wide men he can count on.Albrighton,surely not ? 3,5,2 makes sense.
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Hopefully some of you that were throwing such strong abuse at McLeish are now at least thinking twice before doing the same at Lambert. There is no question that McLeish got as much abuse as he did because of his associations with them lot down the road. Yes, I know the football was absolutely shit, but what other option did he have with the players at his disposal?
Lambert has kept the younger players that were left behind after the cull and added more youth - a recipe for disaster. The youngsters that we are had are good players, but all they have ever known is doom and gloom, so when the chips are down, there are no natural leaders on the pitch to pull them up by their boot straps and make a fight of it.
Unless we buy big and wisely in the transfer window, there is only one place we are heading, albeit via Wembley.
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Sounds like a manager trying to make excuses with the stuff about previous seasons struggles. Really, this sounds eerily like McLeish last season with the massive club, not sorry I took the job, "Top sides" / "Elite Clubs".
It's really quite depressing.
Agree. Lambert's comments afterwards sounded like his first run through the excuses list. Just to recap:
3rd season of struggle so not his fault. And tons of injuries. Blah blah....
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Its a moronic point really when you think about it.
To sack him now, before the window opens, when we desperately need to reinforce?
It'd be utter, utter fucking madness.
It'd be like when Newcastle appointed Alan Shearer. I remember hearing that news and thinking "they're doomed", and they were.
Actually, if Lambert gets sacked at all, it has to be right now, so that his replacement has a transfer window to work with.
Not really.
For a start you have to find and appoint the new man. That could take two or three weeks, quite easily. He'd certainly have less of a window to work with than the incumbent manager.
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So, 11 pages in, we've so far had two suggestions for replacing Lambert.
One is approaching Roberto Di Matteo, the other one is Roy Keane.
Inspirational.
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If Lambert were Spurs manager, or Everton, or Newcastle, Liverpool.... Would he still be in a job?
I hate putting the boot into managers so it's not nice to say, but after today he appears incapable of preparing a team fit for purpose (staying in this league). I'd have to seriously question his decision of going with the same shape as the previous two defeats for todays game.
He hasn't taken over Spurs,Everton etc,he's inherited a team that's been involved in relegation battles the last 2 seasons.Last year he was renowned for changing systems.At the moment,with a horrific injury list,he hasn't got 2 wide men he can count on.Albrighton,surely not ? 3,5,2 makes sense.
My point was about the club and it's peers. But, in fact, take any team in the top flight, or any other division for that matter and ask; 15 goals against, none scored. When does that ever happen? If it did, what would be the likely outcome?
Lambert has fielded a freakishly poor team 3 times on the bounce. Yes, some of that is down to circumstance, but some of it is down to naivety or ineptitude. A successful team relies on confidence, in the style of play and in it's leader. That's why I'm doubting ours.
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Do you think gordon ramsey would retain his michelin star status if he has to buy his ingredience from lidl
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So, 11 pages in, we've so far had two suggestions for replacing Lambert.
One is approaching Roberto Di Matteo, the other one is Roy Keane.
Inspirational.
Granted, the 'list' would be thin as fuck. The point is whether Lambert is a busted flush with the players he has.
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Lambert has fielded a freakishly poor team 3 times on the bounce. Yes, some of that is down to circumstance, but some of it is down to naivety or ineptitude. A successful team relies on confidence, in the style of play and in it's leader. That's why I'm doubting ours.
Then again, who should he have fielded that he didn't?
I appreciate there were other options, but they were hardly stellar, were they?
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I think there's every possibility we'll go down whatever happens but if Lambert stays I think it's a certainty. He is as stubborn as MON without the same talent and experience. Keane is clearly a non stater but di Matteo might be worth a shot.
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On the pitch there is absolutely no leadership, from the top of the club there is absolutely no leadership. The only place there seems to be any leadership (albeit sometimes misguided) is with the manager. Getting rid of Lambert would be beyond stupid, especially as Lerner and Faulkner would be clueless in finding a replacement.
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I genuinely don't believe that Lambert is the problem, it's Lerner.
That's why i think we're probably going down tonight.
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One would hope that the groundwork for transfer targets is allready done, we need to move fast.
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Lambert has fielded a freakishly poor team 3 times on the bounce. Yes, some of that is down to circumstance, but some of it is down to naivety or ineptitude. A successful team relies on confidence, in the style of play and in it's leader. That's why I'm doubting ours.
Then again, who should he have fielded that he didn't?
I appreciate there were other options, but they were hardly stellar, were they?
Nope. But he bought the likes of KEA who has been benched for good reason.
I don't doubt Lamber is a talented manager. I doubt whether he's out of his current depth at Villa right now.
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So, the uncertainty of approaching managers and persuading them to come is what we need two days before the window opens?
It's, what, two weeks since we won at Liverpool and almost every one on here plus most of the media were salivating over us.
We just need to keep calm and hope the chairman puts his hand in his pocket, because, frankly, that's all we can do.
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One would hope that the groundwork for transfer targets is allready done, we need to move fast.
Please let that be true.
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We just need to keep calm and hope the chairman puts his hand in his pocket, because, frankly, that's all we can do.
I agree.
Fucking Lambert off on the edge of a transfer window would be madness.
We need to hope that Lambert has identified quality targets and that Terry Fuckwitt will be willing to finance them.
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So, the uncertainty of approaching managers and persuading them to come is what we need two days before the window opens?
It's, what, two weeks since we won at Liverpool and almost every one on here plus most of the media were salivating over us.
We just need to keep calm and hope the chairman puts his hand in his pocket, because, frankly, that's all we can do.
This, crazy to even speculate about Lambert as that really would the a nail in the coffin. Lerner aint going anywhere in the near future so we need to pray that he invests and that Lambert spends it wisely - no other choice than that.
Atleast if Lerner doesn't invest we'll have plenty of time to come to terms with relegation.
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Lambert has fielded a freakishly poor team 3 times on the bounce. Yes, some of that is down to circumstance, but some of it is down to naivety or ineptitude. A successful team relies on confidence, in the style of play and in it's leader. That's why I'm doubting ours.
Then again, who should he have fielded that he didn't?
I appreciate there were other options, but they were hardly stellar, were they?
Nope. But he bought the likes of KEA who has been benched for good reason.
I don't doubt Lamber is a talented manager. I doubt whether he's out of his current depth at Villa right now.
Of his purchases, in my opinion
Very good - Westwood, Benteke (despite the last few games)
Good - Lowton, Vlaar
Poor - Bennett, KEA
Others we haven't really seen enough of.
The problem is that we bought too many "young and hungry" players, and the most important of all the players he bought was KEA, and he has flopped the worst.
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I'd put Holman in the poor category, although to be fair, McCatpiss bought him.
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Lambert has fielded a freakishly poor team 3 times on the bounce. Yes, some of that is down to circumstance, but some of it is down to naivety or ineptitude. A successful team relies on confidence, in the style of play and in it's leader. That's why I'm doubting ours.
Then again, who should he have fielded that he didn't?
I appreciate there were other options, but they were hardly stellar, were they?
Nope. But he bought the likes of KEA who has been benched for good reason.
I don't doubt Lamber is a talented manager. I doubt whether he's out of his current depth at Villa right now.
Of his purchases, in my opinion
Very good - Westwood, Benteke (despite the last few games)
Good - Lowton, Vlaar
Poor - Bennett, KEA
Others we haven't really seen enough of.
The problem is that we bought too many "young and hungry" players, and the most important of all the players he bought was KEA, and he has flopped the worst.
And KEA was the pivotal one.
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Lambert has fielded a freakishly poor team 3 times on the bounce. Yes, some of that is down to circumstance, but some of it is down to naivety or ineptitude. A successful team relies on confidence, in the style of play and in it's leader. That's why I'm doubting ours.
Then again, who should he have fielded that he didn't?
I appreciate there were other options, but they were hardly stellar, were they?
Nope. But he bought the likes of KEA who has been benched for good reason.
I don't doubt Lamber is a talented manager. I doubt whether he's out of his current depth at Villa right now.
Of his purchases, in my opinion
Very good - Westwood, Benteke (despite the last few games)
Good - Lowton, Vlaar
Poor - Bennett, KEA
Others we haven't really seen enough of.
The problem is that we bought too many "young and hungry" players, and the most important of all the players he bought was KEA, and he has flopped the worst.
Would agree wholeheartedly with all of this and add Guzan to the mix as a good 'signing'.
I don't know, I've probably just had enough of watching god awful football.
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This is the worst Villa team in my 44 years of supporting them, but there is still hope because even though we can't get any worse ( surely?) there are still 3 teams below us.
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This is the worst Villa team in my 44 years of supporting them, but there is still hope because even though we can't get any worse ( surely?) there are still 3 teams below us.
I can remember the 87-7 season relatively well, but I can't remember too many good performances that year. I can recall a few this season so far.
My worry isn't how poor we've been thus far (and much of it has been poor), it is how much poorer we're going to get if we don't get several players in during this window.
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We have two supposed leaders at the club Lerner & Lambert. And neither are doing the jobs they're paid handsomely to do very well at all.
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Fecking Mourinho would have difficulty picking a decent team from that squad today and the early goal knocked the stuffing from them. No excuse though how they folded and Lambert does have to take part of the blame for that. Having said that, who are we going to bring in? We need some experience and Lerner needs to back his manager. 15 goals in 3 games is humiliating, and everyone involved in that should be ashamed of their contribution
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I'm certain new players will be in this window.
At the same time i'm fairly certain they'll be youngsters.
I get the feeling that Lambert has a rabid belief in this policy and is unwilling to try a plan B (see also Martin O'Neill and Arsene Wenger)
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He's gotta get a grip and soon. The players didn't know what they were doing ffs. Ran round like headless chickens for the most part. Part of life that Villa will play badly and generally be shite every now and then but this was more than that. Smells like Billy McNeil to me. No that's unfair...., graham turner. Sort out the defence for starters - its pish. any decent side or bad side for that matter sorts out the defence for starters and then builds from there - we're not manu who can let slide 3 goals and then win the game ffs. This is really basic stuff and i'm bemused lambert seems to be incapable of working it out.
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As mentioned by others, we have no real alternative to sticking with Lambert. (Suggestions like Alan Curbishley and Roy Keane are parodic.)
Besides, I still think he is a decent manager, though it looks as if he is a bit lost: the current team has so many deficiencies that it is difficult to know where to start. Common sense say that first priority should be to organize and focus on the defence: any team that knows it will concede three or four goals at a minimum will struggle to enter any match with any belief that they can get a point. Sadly, defending, tactics and game plans don't seem to be Paul Lambert's strong point. He should, however, be smart enough to surround himself with people capable of balancing out that particular weakness.
A first step should be players that actually look like they know what to do in different situations, who look like they have been instructed on a training pitch. Currently they run around like headless chickens, ball-watching and running around in a shape that looks like a blackboard drawing by a three year old.
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Welcome back Greg
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Sort out the defence for starters - its pish. any decent side or bad side for that matter sorts out the defence for starters and then builds from there - we're not manu who can let slide 3 goals and then win the game ffs. This is really basic stuff and i'm bemused lambert seems to be incapable of working it out.
He appeared to have done that with the 532 system. But injuries mostly put paid to that.
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The problem is simple, you can't play 3 at the back. He is not in Germany any more. We have got no width to supply the strikers 4 4 2 gives the fullbacks more options to get forward and leave the midfield more balanced to do their job
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The problem is simple, you can't play 3 at the back. He is not in Germany any more. We have got no width to supply the strikers 4 4 2 gives the fullbacks more options to get forward and leave the midfield more balanced to do their job
I know what you are trying to say but just juggling the formation will make no difference if the midfield are fucking crap.
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Herd is never a feckign centre back, and Lichaj in the right wing back role was like a shite useless de la cruz
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Herd is never a feckign centre back, and Lichaj in the right wing back role was like a shite useless de la cruz
A shite useless? That's saying something, but you are spot on. *weeps*
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Sort out the defence for starters - its pish. any decent side or bad side for that matter sorts out the defence for starters and then builds from there - we're not manu who can let slide 3 goals and then win the game ffs. This is really basic stuff and i'm bemused lambert seems to be incapable of working it out.
He appeared to have done that with the 532 system. But injuries mostly put paid to that.
yes thats true but 15 goals in 3 games? there's div1 teams who wouldn't let that in against premier league opposition. they'd probably lose but to that extent? Dare i say it but we wouldn't have been hammered into the ground if the TSM was still here. 2 losses and a draw at best mind. Whatever way you look at it lamberts let things go awry. Plenty of teams have shite midfields and can still get a draw.
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Welcome back Greg
cheers Phil
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The problem is simple, you can't play 3 at the back. He is not in Germany any more. We have got no width to supply the strikers 4 4 2 gives the fullbacks more options to get forward and leave the midfield more balanced to do their job
German sides are doing well in the Champions Lge. 442 leaves your midfield outnumbered ,perhaps you haven't been watching England for the last 20 yrs. Ferguson realised that when his talented sides weren't winning the Champions Lge. United ,Arsenal and Chelsea don't play that system and Citeh don't play with wide men.Spanish sides don't and most Italian ones,including the national side,play 352. Why ?
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Sort out the defence for starters - its pish. any decent side or bad side for that matter sorts out the defence for starters and then builds from there - we're not manu who can let slide 3 goals and then win the game ffs. This is really basic stuff and i'm bemused lambert seems to be incapable of working it out.
He appeared to have done that with the 532 system. But injuries mostly put paid to that.
yes thats true but 15 goals in 3 games? there's div1 teams who wouldn't let that in against premier league opposition. they'd probably lose but to that extent? Dare i say it but we wouldn't have been hammered into the ground if the TSM was still here. 2 losses and a draw at best mind. Whatever way you look at it lamberts let things go awry. Plenty of teams have shite midfields and can still get a draw.
The 8-0, although bad is on par with MON's last result there, with more experienced defenders. Tottenham were all over us and probably would have won but would it have been 4 if Baker was still on the field. Would Wigan have won today or would it have been a 0-0? What if Vlaar was back and could steady the ship? Prior to that the defence had done well for 5 matches including against Arse. The trouble is that the formation is only temporary and as also shown in the last few, midfield can be overrun quite easily against better drilled mid-fielders.
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You need to play with width, if you can accomodate it with 3 at the back, fair play, a national team will do it no problem but Lambert at Villa trying to do it with kids has got no chance.
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The problem is simple, you can't play 3 at the back. He is not in Germany any more. We have got no width to supply the strikers 4 4 2 gives the fullbacks more options to get forward and leave the midfield more balanced to do their job
Well the team that beat us today played three at the back and had plenty of options going forward. I expect once Vlaar's back we'll return to a back four but it's not the system that's been the problem, it's having to play a full back and a midfielder as centre backs due to injuries.
People talk as if Lambert hasn't realised yet that the squad isn't strong enough, just because he doesn't come out after each defeat and say so. I'm sure he knows what he needs and lets at least wait and see what happens in January.
It was always going to be a roller coaster season, we're just at the bottom of one of the dips at the moment with lots of hysterical screaming and a few yellabellies wanting to get off.
Stay with it and we'll all get off dizzy but laughing at the end of the ride.
Keep the faith.
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Sort out the defence for starters - its pish. any decent side or bad side for that matter sorts out the defence for starters and then builds from there - we're not manu who can let slide 3 goals and then win the game ffs. This is really basic stuff and i'm bemused lambert seems to be incapable of working it out.
He appeared to have done that with the 532 system. But injuries mostly put paid to that.
yes thats true but 15 goals in 3 games? there's div1 teams who wouldn't let that in against premier league opposition. they'd probably lose but to that extent? Dare i say it but we wouldn't have been hammered into the ground if the TSM was still here. 2 losses and a draw at best mind. Whatever way you look at it lamberts let things go awry. Plenty of teams have shite midfields and can still get a draw.
The 8-0, although bad is on par with MON's last result there, with more experienced defenders. Tottenham were all over us and probably would have won but would it have been 4 if Baker was still on the field. Would Wigan have won today or would it have been a 0-0? What if Vlaar was back and could steady the ship? Prior to that the defence had done well for 5 matches including against Arse. The trouble is that the formation is only temporary and as also shown in the last few, midfield can be overrun quite easily against better drilled mid-fielders.
I don't know... Chelsea like most on here i took as a bloodied nose. Alarms bells went after the spurs game when it became obvious it had really hit some of the youngsters for 6 or 8. Today,I would have packed the defence given the available resources. A shit draw is better than what happened today especially with the fragile confidence. Don't help when you've got wasters like ireland in midfield but still to me Lambert's whole approach to this game was naive in the extreme. What was bannan's role for instance?
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Lets be honest, Norwich and Liverpool could and should have scored more against us. I didnt expect anything v Chelsea or Spuds, but didnt expect to be walked all over. However, today was a disgrace and we cant keep making excuses. You need some sort of tactics and although the shite early goal didnt help, we looked all over the place. I could not believe the centre midfield he put out today to be honest
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But Wigan was more productive in midfield they made us look like school kids, we need more bite, Fabian Delph should step up to the mark but he is no Stan Petrov
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He couldnt pick Delph today though as was suspended, how many fecking games has he played to get 5 cards? Needed a holding player though and I know Westwood may be tired, but would have played him today and given him next two games off v Swansea and Ipswich as today was a massive game for us
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Alarms bells went after the spurs game when it became obvious it had really hit some of the youngsters for 6 or 8. Today,I would have packed the defence given the available resources. A shit draw is better than what happened today especially with the fragile confidence. Don't help when you've got wasters like ireland in midfield but still to me Lambert's whole approach to this game was naive in the extreme. What was bannan's role for instance?
Against Spurs, when he went to 4 at the back due to Bakers injury in the second half, my opinion was if we didn't get the first goal we would be open to a hiding. For all their bossing of the first 45, they hadn't broken through but we had barely got out of our half. I believe he might have kept it the same without the injury.
Today, on the midfield he did put out, we were either going to win or lose, there was no draw involved. If Holman had scored right before HT we probably would have won it. Unfortunately, as with Spurs, we let in the killer second goal with lots of defensive mistakes when we were bossing the game and from there, the only thing we were waiting for was how bad was the loss going to be. But I don't think we would have lost today if Baker was fit, or if Vlaar was back no matter the midfield.
But I am worried that Lambert does seem to be MON lite. He should have changed it at 2-0, instead he waited until almost 10 mins after conceding a 3rd. He probably should have changed it at half time in hindsight but from about 30 mins in until their second, we were well on top.
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If ever there was time to get a villa man in its now. Big Ron?
Not Big Ron, maybe Peter Withe though to steady the ship, someone who has rights over the 'proud history' mantra.
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Lambert has fielded a freakishly poor team 3 times on the bounce. Yes, some of that is down to circumstance, but some of it is down to naivety or ineptitude. A successful team relies on confidence, in the style of play and in it's leader. That's why I'm doubting ours.
Then again, who should he have fielded that he didn't?
I appreciate there were other options, but they were hardly stellar, were they?
I really respect you Paulie, you know this, but it isn't as if he was picking all the senior players before this so called injury crisis. Bent couldn't get a game in the league, Ireland was still in and out, Nzogbia pre knee injury was nowhere to be seen, Hutton punted out on loan, Warnock the same, I mean come on, they can't all be shit enough to be played out of th side by the likes of what we have seen today?
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If ever there was time to get a villa man in its now. Big Ron?
Not Big Ron, maybe Peter Withe though to steady the ship, someone who has rights over the 'proud history' mantra.
Peter Withe = Alan Shearer at Newcastle. He might talk the talk but has never walked the walk at any meaningful level.
If we were ever to go down that route, then it would be Sid anyway as he is already on the staff so no more wages to spend or compo payouts to other teams.
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I really respect you Paulie, you know this, but it isn't as if he was picking all the senior players before this so called injury crisis. Bent couldn't get a game in the league, Ireland was still in and out, Nzogbia pre knee injury was nowhere to be seen, Hutton punted out on loan, Warnock the same, I mean come on, they can't all be shit enough to be played out of th side by the likes of what we have seen today?
And what was your opinion on all of those players last year when the performances were not any better but they did not have the lack of experience as a fall back option.
This year, N'Zog has appeared 11 times, albeit as sub mostly but hasn't shown in those appearances any reason to start him ahead of others before the last three matches. Ireland has been on the pitch for 12 of the 15 goals conceded. Bent is the only one he deliberately dropped, but as others have mentioned, without the injury at Norwich, he probably would have been in the side in at least two of the last three matches. As for Hutton and Warnock, I doubt they would have been any better then Ireland has been. We already have Herd giving away stupid free kicks around the box, why have two other players doing the same.
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BFR or Peter Withe, why not get that twat Nigel Kennedy to take charge. Get a bloody grip
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BFR or Peter Withe, why not get that twat Nigel Kennedy to take charge. Get a bloody grip
I don't know what Nigel has done to upset you, but he is a Villa supporter who goes out of his way to help other supporters all the time.
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What is the point of changing manager yet again? We wanted Lambert and got him. He justy needs to understand that we are at crisis point and ensure Lerner opens his wallet so that he can sign the players to get us out of this mess.
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Lets be honest, Norwich and Liverpool could and should have scored more against us. I didnt expect anything v Chelsea or Spuds, but didnt expect to be walked all over. However, today was a disgrace and we cant keep making excuses. You need some sort of tactics and although the shite early goal didnt help, we looked all over the place. I could not believe the centre midfield he put out today to be honest
Agreed first 20 mins at Liverpool they dominated and it was a combination of their poor final ball and some great last ditch defending that kept us in it.But we scored first and went on from there ,against Norwich we equalized quickly and against went from there.The team is mentally weak when we go a goal down we go hell for leather to get back into the game and get caught again.
Also the team work hard however they all close down players in packs then get picked apart.This was happening as far back as Everton and Southampton.The 2nd half at United once they scored was the same.Swindon we almost threw away too.Norwich at home again we were pretty awful but going down to 10 men perhaps papered over that.
We can point to injuries and a changing back line but in reality for the majority of the season we have looked less than solid at the back.The lack of any kind of DM has not helped.It's weird he has stated that Clark is most certainly not a midfielder when I'd argue he performed better there than CB and Herd he see's as a back up CB who again is better in CM.
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What is it with football fans and the internet. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Whether it be, there must be a better manager than the current one but people then struggle to name one or, there is always a better team that can be put out than the one selected on any given Saturday.
I get very frustrated that people say change, change, change but cannot come up with realistic alternatives.
We all make it sound so easy to run a football club or manage the team.
When will people realise that we have very limited options. We have 4 very important PL matches next month that we must get a reasonable return from. We cannot afford to wait for injuries to clear up. We must bring players in, at least in the short term.
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Lambert has to be given control of our affairs, maybe not quite as free as MON had but as near as. I feel if he does have more financial clout he is the man for them job. Surely after appointing him the Owner needs to take a leap of faith in his appointment.
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I really respect you Paulie, you know this, but it isn't as if he was picking all the senior players before this so called injury crisis. Bent couldn't get a game in the league, Ireland was still in and out, Nzogbia pre knee injury was nowhere to be seen, Hutton punted out on loan, Warnock the same, I mean come on, they can't all be shit enough to be played out of th side by the likes of what we have seen today?
And what was your opinion on all of those players last year when the performances were not any better but they did not have the lack of experience as a fall back option.
This year, N'Zog has appeared 11 times, albeit as sub mostly but hasn't shown in those appearances any reason to start him ahead of others before the last three matches. Ireland has been on the pitch for 12 of the 15 goals conceded. Bent is the only one he deliberately dropped, but as others have mentioned, without the injury at Norwich, he probably would have been in the side in at least two of the last three matches. As for Hutton and Warnock, I doubt they would have been any better then Ireland has been. We already have Herd giving away stupid free kicks around the box, why have two other players doing the same.
Agree mostly. Bent though is different. As others have pointed out he's limited but its been pretty obvious there's an agenda to get him out, probably to raise funds, Play to his strengths and he'll score and its nowt to do with players like Downing and young going. Torres had better service than him and couldn't hit a barn door till FSW arrived. Likewise Houllier knew how to get Bent scoring,. I'd take Bent's goals for 85 minutes looking disintentered because Benteke, Gabby and co haven't got that knack of being prolific scorers. him and wiemann/benteke up front would do me.,
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BFR or Peter Withe, why not get that twat Nigel Kennedy to take charge. Get a bloody grip
I don't know what Nigel has done to upset you, but he is a Villa supporter who goes out of his way to help other supporters all the time.
Nothing personally to upset me, except his music which I dislike and his I am a better fan than anyone else attitude that comes across, also I dont want him as Villa manager
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BFR or Peter Withe, why not get that twat Nigel Kennedy to take charge. Get a bloody grip
I don't know what Nigel has done to upset you, but he is a Villa supporter who goes out of his way to help other supporters all the time.
Nothing personally to upset me, except his music which I dislike and his I am a better fan than anyone else attitude that comes across, also I dont want him as Villa manager
I think you need to get out more, he is a decent bloke and a Villa fan.
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BFR or Peter Withe, why not get that twat Nigel Kennedy to take charge. Get a bloody grip
I don't know what Nigel has done to upset you, but he is a Villa supporter who goes out of his way to help other supporters all the time.
Nothing personally to upset me, except his music which I dislike and his I am a better fan than anyone else attitude that comes across, also I dont want him as Villa manager
Nigel has never claimed to be a better fan than anyone, even though he has done more for the rest of us than most.
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I really respect you Paulie, you know this, but it isn't as if he was picking all the senior players before this so called injury crisis. Bent couldn't get a game in the league, Ireland was still in and out, Nzogbia pre knee injury was nowhere to be seen, Hutton punted out on loan, Warnock the same, I mean come on, they can't all be shit enough to be played out of th side by the likes of what we have seen today?
And what was your opinion on all of those players last year when the performances were not any better but they did not have the lack of experience as a fall back option.
This year, N'Zog has appeared 11 times, albeit as sub mostly but hasn't shown in those appearances any reason to start him ahead of others before the last three matches. Ireland has been on the pitch for 12 of the 15 goals conceded. Bent is the only one he deliberately dropped, but as others have mentioned, without the injury at Norwich, he probably would have been in the side in at least two of the last three matches. As for Hutton and Warnock, I doubt they would have been any better then Ireland has been. We already have Herd giving away stupid free kicks around the box, why have two other players doing the same.
Agree mostly. Bent though is different. As others have pointed out he's limited but its been pretty obvious there's an agenda to get him out, probably to raise funds, Play to his strengths and he'll score and its nowt to do with players like Downing and young going. Torres had better service than him and couldn't hit a barn door till FSW arrived. Likewise Houllier knew how to get Bent scoring,. I'd take Bent's goals for 85 minutes looking disintentered because Benteke, Gabby and co haven't got that knack of being prolific scorers. him and wiemann/benteke up front would do me.,
Yes, Bentekes goal average is pathetic considering he has come into a new Country.
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BFR or Peter Withe, why not get that twat Nigel Kennedy to take charge. Get a bloody grip
I don't know what Nigel has done to upset you, but he is a Villa supporter who goes out of his way to help other supporters all the time.
Nothing personally to upset me, except his music which I dislike and his I am a better fan than anyone else attitude that comes across, also I dont want him as Villa manager
Nigel has never claimed to be a better fan than anyone, even though he has done more for the rest of us than most.
I said his attitude and stick to that. As for doing more than most of us, I dont quite understand what you mean
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BFR or Peter Withe, why not get that twat Nigel Kennedy to take charge. Get a bloody grip
I don't know what Nigel has done to upset you, but he is a Villa supporter who goes out of his way to help other supporters all the time.
Nothing personally to upset me, except his music which I dislike and his I am a better fan than anyone else attitude that comes across, also I dont want him as Villa manager
I think you need to get out more, he is a decent bloke and a Villa fan.
I get out enough thanks, sorry if I express an opinion different to yours, oh no I am not actually
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BFR or Peter Withe, why not get that twat Nigel Kennedy to take charge. Get a bloody grip
I don't know what Nigel has done to upset you, but he is a Villa supporter who goes out of his way to help other supporters all the time.
Nothing personally to upset me, except his music which I dislike and his I am a better fan than anyone else attitude that comes across, also I dont want him as Villa manager
I think you need to get out more, he is a decent bloke and a Villa fan.
I get out enough thanks, sorry if I express an opinion different to yours, oh no I am not actually
Nigel is a top bloke.I pissed on his shoes in a pub in Manchester one game.He started laughing and got me a pint.A twat he ain't.
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BFR or Peter Withe, why not get that twat Nigel Kennedy to take charge. Get a bloody grip
I don't know what Nigel has done to upset you, but he is a Villa supporter who goes out of his way to help other supporters all the time.
Nothing personally to upset me, except his music which I dislike and his I am a better fan than anyone else attitude that comes across, also I dont want him as Villa manager
I think you need to get out more, he is a decent bloke and a Villa fan.
I get out enough thanks, sorry if I express an opinion different to yours, oh no I am not actually
slagging someone off without knowing anything about them seems to suit you,
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As mentioned by others, we have no real alternative to sticking with Lambert. (Suggestions like Alan Curbishley and Roy Keane are parodic.)
Besides, I still think he is a decent manager, though it looks as if he is a bit lost: the current team has so many deficiencies that it is difficult to know where to start. Common sense say that first priority should be to organize and focus on the defence: any team that knows it will concede three or four goals at a minimum will struggle to enter any match with any belief that they can get a point. Sadly, defending, tactics and game plans don't seem to be Paul Lambert's strong point. He should, however, be smart enough to surround himself with people capable of balancing out that particular weakness.
I've been thinking along similar lines recently.
Well, for a large chunk of the season, in fact.
Lambert does, I feel, have the makings of a decent boss. But Norwich were one of the worst teams defensively to visit Villa Park last year. And some of our defending this year has been abysmal -even in the games where we haven't been turned over.
Culverhouse and Karsa started out with him in League One, but maybe that (or the Championship) is their natural level.
Now wouldn't be the time to be backing drastic changes to the backroom staff but I'd hope- if we do stay up and our defensive record is still atrocious- Lambert would be brave enough to pot one (or both) of them.
Like MON, he's more the unofficial Director of Football, making the big calls as far as team selection and transfers are concerned, but leaving the day to day mundane business up to others. In that case, your coaches need to be exceptional. I'm not sure ours are.
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BFR or Peter Withe, why not get that twat Nigel Kennedy to take charge. Get a bloody grip
I don't know what Nigel has done to upset you, but he is a Villa supporter who goes out of his way to help other supporters all the time.
Nothing personally to upset me, except his music which I dislike and his I am a better fan than anyone else attitude that comes across, also I dont want him as Villa manager
Nigel has never claimed to be a better fan than anyone, even though he has done more for the rest of us than most.
I said his attitude and stick to that. As for doing more than most of us, I dont quite understand what you mean
How many supporters have you paid to get into a match when they were skint, bought drinks for, given lifts to and given away tickets because you had a couple of spares?
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BFR or Peter Withe, why not get that twat Nigel Kennedy to take charge. Get a bloody grip
I don't know what Nigel has done to upset you, but he is a Villa supporter who goes out of his way to help other supporters all the time.
Nothing personally to upset me, except his music which I dislike and his I am a better fan than anyone else attitude that comes across, also I dont want him as Villa manager
I think you need to get out more, he is a decent bloke and a Villa fan.
I get out enough thanks, sorry if I express an opinion different to yours, oh no I am not actually
Nigel is a top bloke.I pissed on his shoes in a pub in Manchester one game.He started laughing and got me a pint.A twat he ain't.
Never met him and am sure he wont be fussed if we dont. Suffice to say if you read my initial post in response to BFR or Peter Withe being in charge, would compare that to him. Maybe he does a lot for the club, if I was a multi millionaire, so would I, fair play to him being a Villa fan, but there are lots of Villa fans in this world
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I really respect you Paulie, you know this, but it isn't as if he was picking all the senior players before this so called injury crisis. Bent couldn't get a game in the league, Ireland was still in and out, Nzogbia pre knee injury was nowhere to be seen, Hutton punted out on loan, Warnock the same, I mean come on, they can't all be shit enough to be played out of th side by the likes of what we have seen today?
And what was your opinion on all of those players last year when the performances were not any better but they did not have the lack of experience as a fall back option.
This year, N'Zog has appeared 11 times, albeit as sub mostly but hasn't shown in those appearances any reason to start him ahead of others before the last three matches. Ireland has been on the pitch for 12 of the 15 goals conceded. Bent is the only one he deliberately dropped, but as others have mentioned, without the injury at Norwich, he probably would have been in the side in at least two of the last three matches. As for Hutton and Warnock, I doubt they would have been any better then Ireland has been. We already have Herd giving away stupid free kicks around the box, why have two other players doing the same.
Agree mostly. Bent though is different. As others have pointed out he's limited but its been pretty obvious there's an agenda to get him out, probably to raise funds, Play to his strengths and he'll score and its nowt to do with players like Downing and young going. Torres had better service than him and couldn't hit a barn door till FSW arrived. Likewise Houllier knew how to get Bent scoring,. I'd take Bent's goals for 85 minutes looking disintentered because Benteke, Gabby and co haven't got that knack of being prolific scorers. him and wiemann/benteke up front would do me.,
Yes, Bentekes goal average is pathetic considering he has come into a new Country.
he's not that sort of player though. benteke will never be a goal hanger/poacher type however good a player he becomes. If you've got someone who can knock in 9 goals in 16 games when he's used right, its probably best to use him. Especially if your shipping more than that every 3 games.
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BFR or Peter Withe, why not get that twat Nigel Kennedy to take charge. Get a bloody grip
I don't know what Nigel has done to upset you, but he is a Villa supporter who goes out of his way to help other supporters all the time.
Nothing personally to upset me, except his music which I dislike and his I am a better fan than anyone else attitude that comes across, also I dont want him as Villa manager
I think you need to get out more, he is a decent bloke and a Villa fan.
I get out enough thanks, sorry if I express an opinion different to yours, oh no I am not actually
slagging someone off without knowing anything about them seems to suit you,
I said I had never met him, did I say anywhere I didnt know anything about him?
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BFR or Peter Withe, why not get that twat Nigel Kennedy to take charge. Get a bloody grip
I don't know what Nigel has done to upset you, but he is a Villa supporter who goes out of his way to help other supporters all the time.
Nothing personally to upset me, except his music which I dislike and his I am a better fan than anyone else attitude that comes across, also I dont want him as Villa manager
Nigel has never claimed to be a better fan than anyone, even though he has done more for the rest of us than most.
I said his attitude and stick to that. As for doing more than most of us, I dont quite understand what you mean
How many supporters have you paid to get into a match when they were skint, bought drinks for, given lifts to and given away tickets because you had a couple of spares?
Actually, I paid for a couple of blokes to get into a game once in the early 80's, they were in my local and we took them down. Fair play to the bloke, he has the money to do it of course
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Which isn't the point and you know it. Anyway, how can you know about someone's attitude when you've never met him?
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Which isn't the point and you know it. Anyway, how can you know about someone's attitude when you've never met him?
I have never met Sir Alex, but surely I am entitled to an opinion about him? My initial point was about potential managers like BFR and Peter Withe and I mentioned Nigel Kennedy then, if it has upset you that much I apologise profusely, but surely I am entitled to an opinion about someone? I never met Margaret Thatcher by the way, and have read some people saying far far worse things about her,
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You are also entitled to be told by several people that you are wrong.
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You are also entitled to be told by several people that you are wrong.
Have I whinged about that, just merely put my points across I thought? Anyway, time for bed
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This club hasn't enough ambition to sack PL they're quite happy to just muddle alongHappy New fucking year !!
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I had a much more impressive post typed out but I accidentally cancelled it, but to some up my key point I think we need to stick with Lambert. He's not the problem, though he is far from blameless (some of the tactics have been bizarre, cf Herd as a sweeper). For the last two seasons I've said we've needed to rebuild and this is what Lambert has been trying to do. The problem is that, for the most part, he hasn't had the funds necessary to do this. We've needed a completely new defence and a radically remodeled midfield and to achieve this the rump of our transfer budget has been imports and Football League youngsters bought in the £2-3million range. The problem with these kind of players is that you are going to get a relatively low hit rate of successes. You can find a few good ones (Westwood looks like one to me) but you also find a few who can't handle the change in level (as much as it grieves me to write off players so quickly it seems that Bennett and Al Ahamadi belong to this camp). The irony is that (Guzan aside) Lambert's two best signings have been the players that have greater fees in Benteke and Vlaar. Would Lambert be shopping around for £2-3million waifs and strays if he had more funds and scope for wages? I say no, and our problems stem from a reliance upon young players who have much more difficulty in maintaining confidence and some players who have flopped (though it is unrealistic to expect every cheap player to be a runaway success).
Basically, we can sack Lambert and continue along the same path with the next manager (and no doubt Risso will be the first to start a thread to ask for him to be relieved of his duties) or we can back Lambert in January and hope that he can find three or four quality players that can bring the quality and leadership that we need. These need to be mostly Vlaar-type signings rather than bargain basement gambles we've seemed to focus on so far.
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For me, long term Lambert is a good fit here.
In the short term though, I don't think he's got enough nous yet to turn our side around. He took a job that would have had even Fergie and Mourinho struggling. At the very best it's a mid-table side.
Randy can sack Lambert, get in someone more experienced, and with a track record of pulling sides up by the scruff of the neck. In which case we could end up with another O Neill. Good in the short term, and avoid relegation, but long term the thinking might be too restricted.
He can stick with Lambert and there's a strong chance we'll get relegated. If we survive by the skin of our teeth then we look set to do it over again next year without major funding, and Lambert to seriously rethinking his buying policy and tactics. He cannot avoid experienced pro's, and Randy's mantra can't either. We will have to sign a few players who've done the business and pay them 50k a week. It'll help develop the kids, and every solid prem side has a core of experienced players.
But long term Lambert could take us places I feel. But the problem is, he is learning himself too. He's far from the finished article and has shown a lot of naivity.
It's hard. We could have gone for someone like Allardyce in the summer, be fairly comfortable in the mid-table areas, but be playing very one dimensionally.
If we go down, I don't think it'll be the titanic disaster it would have been under McLiesh. But for as bad as McLeish was he never masterminded a run quite as shite as the last three games. It's been one of the worst weeks I've ever experienced as a Villa fan.
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There were stories coming out of the club in the summer that the money was there for lambert but he has chosen this transfer policy of young hungry lower league players , now apparently there is talk that lambert will believe very limited resources in January - conflicting reports , if he isn't given much money we are fucked!
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He's gotta get a grip and soon. The players didn't know what they were doing ffs. Ran round like headless chickens for the most part. Part of life that Villa will play badly and generally be shite every now and then but this was more than that. Smells like Billy McNeil to me. No that's unfair...., graham turner. Sort out the defence for starters - its pish. any decent side or bad side for that matter sorts out the defence for starters and then builds from there - we're not manu who can let slide 3 goals and then win the game ffs. This is really basic stuff and i'm bemused lambert seems to be incapable of working it out.
The return of the glorious gnasher - you have been sorely missed my old friend, but I fear your return suggests the end is nigh.
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He hardly inspires confidence does he with his dull interviews? Doesn't strike me as the leader I'm sure many of us thought we we getting.
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He hardly inspires confidence does he with his dull interviews. Does strike me as the leader I'm sure many of us thought we we getting.
At least he is still prepared to give interviews. There is an alternative and it is certain that everybody is wary of a silent man.
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This club hasn't enough ambition to sack PL they're quite happy to just muddle alongHappy New fucking year !!
Muddling along would be heaven. 16-0 and counting isn't muddling along.
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He hardly inspires confidence does he with his dull interviews? Doesn't strike me as the leader I'm sure many of us thought we we getting.
So who do we want who will provide us with with interesting, witty and less dull interviews after a heavy defeat?
Holloway ? 'Arry ? Barry Fry ? Stephen Fry ?
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The problem lambert or anyone else will have now is after the last couple of years, how on earth are we going to attract any signings in the first place ..
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I feel a lot better now I see the nasher is back
His doom laden posts have a better quality than anyone else, and in a wierd way he makes me feel safe and secure in dark times
A bit like a safety blanket
The fact I don't agree with hardly anything he says is irelavent, welcome back gnash
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I'm still backing Lambert and buying good youth players is surely the way forward.
Whether we have bought quality youth is yet to be decided, but what we have done is buy too much too soon. We currently have no partnerships that have played together before in any areas of the pitch and a captain that is still learning his position himself never mind leading others.
Personally I would rather go down trying to play the right way with the right setup than stay in the League with a manager like McLeish. I may be naive in thinking that way and there is a chance that it could go disastrously wrong but teams like WBA and Newcastle have also shown it can go right.
Of course I'd rather we scrape it and stay up, but this looks like a long term plan and many things will go wrong before they go right.
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I feel a lot better now I see the nasher is back
His doom laden posts have a better quality than anyone else, and in a wierd way he makes me feel safe and secure in dark times
A bit like a safety blanket
The fact I don't agree with hardly anything he says is irelavent, welcome back gnash
Yes there is a comforting feel to him, like your old pair of favourite slippers fished out of the wardrobe.
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I'm still backing Lambert and buying good youth players is surely the way forward.
Whether we have bought quality youth is yet to be decided, but what we have done is buy too much too soon. We currently have no partnerships that have played together before in any areas of the pitch and a captain that is still learning his position himself never mind leading others.
Personally I would rather go down trying to play the right way with the right setup than stay in the League with a manager like McLeish. I may be naive in thinking that way and there is a chance that it could go disastrously wrong but teams like WBA and Newcastle have also shown it can go right.
Of course I'd rather we scrape it and stay up, but this looks like a long term plan and many things will go wrong before they go right.
Any long term plan could not include a possible risk that we might drop so low. On what evidence does it look like a long term plan?'
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I'm still backing Lambert and buying good youth players is surely the way forward.
Whether we have bought quality youth is yet to be decided, but what we have done is buy too much too soon. We currently have no partnerships that have played together before in any areas of the pitch and a captain that is still learning his position himself never mind leading others.
Personally I would rather go down trying to play the right way with the right setup than stay in the League with a manager like McLeish. I may be naive in thinking that way and there is a chance that it could go disastrously wrong but teams like WBA and Newcastle have also shown it can go right.
Of course I'd rather we scrape it and stay up, but this looks like a long term plan and many things will go wrong before they go right.
Any long term plan could not include a possible risk that we might drop so low. On what evidence does it look like a long term plan?'
i dont think the long term plan included whats just happened, what happened at Chelsea was the wheels coming of any plan and has destroyed any confidence we might have had,
it reminds me of when Carson came back from that disasterous England game, he was just shot, finished, its just this time seamingly its the whole team
but thats not to say there wasnt a plan, the future of the club has been put in the hands of younger players who hopefully will be able to play a more progresive mode of football under a promising up and coming manager, all alien to what we have been used to for a long while,
i know the evidence is sparse, but i think we were working to a plan, and hopefully still will be, although are next couple of signings will be key
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I'm still backing Lambert and buying good youth players is surely the way forward.
Whether we have bought quality youth is yet to be decided, but what we have done is buy too much too soon. We currently have no partnerships that have played together before in any areas of the pitch and a captain that is still learning his position himself never mind leading others.
Personally I would rather go down trying to play the right way with the right setup than stay in the League with a manager like McLeish. I may be naive in thinking that way and there is a chance that it could go disastrously wrong but teams like WBA and Newcastle have also shown it can go right.
Of course I'd rather we scrape it and stay up, but this looks like a long term plan and many things will go wrong before they go right.
Any long term plan could not include a possible risk that we might drop so low. On what evidence does it look like a long term plan?'
i dont think the long term plan included whats just happened, what happened at Chelsea was the wheels coming of any plan and has destroyed any confidence we might have had,
it reminds me of when Carson came back from that disasterous England game, he was just shot, finished, its just this time seamingly its the whole team
but thats not to say there wasnt a plan, the future of the club has been put in the hands of younger players who hopefully will be able to play a more progresive mode of football under a promising up and coming manager, all alien to what we have been used to for a long while,
i know the evidence is sparse, but i think we were working to a plan, and hopefully still will be, although are next couple of signings will be key
And could so easily have been avoided if lambert had shut up shop and tightened things up when the game was lost at Chelsea at 3-0 rather than his crazy gung ho style which left us wide open to attack from all angles.
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I hope the experience has not caused long term damage to the young players. It will do if old heads aren't brought in soon. There must be some Mike Pejic, Des Bremner, Trevor Hockey type players about. No nonsense men who looked mean, were mean and did the business. Then we can start looking at the fancy stuff. We know we have great forwards, well at least two, but we must stop the rot. The atmosphere in there will be incredible if we can do so. It is getting more like the late sixties all the time.
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I'm still backing Lambert and buying good youth players is surely the way forward.
Whether we have bought quality youth is yet to be decided, but what we have done is buy too much too soon. We currently have no partnerships that have played together before in any areas of the pitch and a captain that is still learning his position himself never mind leading others.
Personally I would rather go down trying to play the right way with the right setup than stay in the League with a manager like McLeish. I may be naive in thinking that way and there is a chance that it could go disastrously wrong but teams like WBA and Newcastle have also shown it can go right.
Of course I'd rather we scrape it and stay up, but this looks like a long term plan and many things will go wrong before they go right.
Any long term plan could not include a possible risk that we might drop so low. On what evidence does it look like a long term plan?'
Evidence that it is a long term plan is that we are buying young players. No plan is without risk as their is no fail safe solution whatever path you choose.
Minimizing the risk is the ideal solution but sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate and I think I would rather buy 4 young hopefuls than spend big money on players like Ireland and Nzogbia.
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I'm still backing Lambert and buying good youth players is surely the way forward.
Whether we have bought quality youth is yet to be decided, but what we have done is buy too much too soon. We currently have no partnerships that have played together before in any areas of the pitch and a captain that is still learning his position himself never mind leading others.
Personally I would rather go down trying to play the right way with the right setup than stay in the League with a manager like McLeish. I may be naive in thinking that way and there is a chance that it could go disastrously wrong but teams like WBA and Newcastle have also shown it can go right.
Of course I'd rather we scrape it and stay up, but this looks like a long term plan and many things will go wrong before they go right.
Any long term plan could not include a possible risk that we might drop so low. On what evidence does it look like a long term plan?'
Does anyone really think PL would survive a relegation ? The fans certainly wouldn't and the board would have to listen. Any manager that relegates my club doesn't deserve a second chance.
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Sacking Lambert is pointless. I'm hoping the one positive from the last three horrendous displays is that Lerner must realise he needs to invest or we're going to miss this massive TV deal.
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He hardly inspires confidence does he with his dull interviews? Doesn't strike me as the leader I'm sure many of us thought we we getting.
So who do we want who will provide us with with interesting, witty and less dull interviews after a heavy defeat?
Holloway ? 'Arry ? Barry Fry ? Stephen Fry ?
No idea. But doesn't appear to have it in him galvanise the team and lead them back on track, not the leader we came across during his playing days.
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Which isn't the point and you know it. Anyway, how can you know about someone's attitude when you've never met him?
I have never met Sir Alex, but surely I am entitled to an opinion about him? My initial point was about potential managers like BFR and Peter Withe and I mentioned Nigel Kennedy then, if it has upset you that much I apologise profusely, but surely I am entitled to an opinion about someone? I never met Margaret Thatcher by the way, and have read some people saying far far worse things about her,
Nigel Kennedy is a gent. I had a season ticket in the seat behind him in the Holte in the '90's and he was as friendly and genuine as could be to everyone around him. Gave us free tickets to away games on several occasions as well. Top bloke!
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Also the players need to take their share of responsibility, I don't care if they're young they need to have more character about them. Also young or not some of them are fairly experienced, Clark, Bannan, Herd, Lichaj have all been playing for at least a year. They're not complete novices and that shouldn't be ignored.
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Which isn't the point and you know it. Anyway, how can you know about someone's attitude when you've never met him?
I have never met Sir Alex, but surely I am entitled to an opinion about him? My initial point was about potential managers like BFR and Peter Withe and I mentioned Nigel Kennedy then, if it has upset you that much I apologise profusely, but surely I am entitled to an opinion about someone? I never met Margaret Thatcher by the way, and have read some people saying far far worse things about her,
Nigel Kennedy is a gent. I had a season ticket in the seat behind him in the Holte in the '90's and he was as friendly and genuine as could be to everyone around him. Gave us free tickets to away games on several occasions as well. Top bloke!
Yes met him a couple of times and certainly never came across as anything other than a really decent bloke and fan who had time for fellow fans- his gf was a stunner too!
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I hope the experience has not caused long term damage to the young players. It will do if old heads aren't brought in soon. There must be some Mike Pejic, Des Bremner, Trevor Hockey type players about. No nonsense men who looked mean, were mean and did the business. Then we can start looking at the fancy stuff. We know we have great forwards, well at least two, but we must stop the rot. The atmosphere in there will be incredible if we can do so. It is getting more like the late sixties all the time.
Tend to agree, the team really needs a chunk of backbone added to it.
When they are confident they can play well. When we concede of late, heads go down and the only thing we look like doing is conceding more.
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I'm still backing Lambert and buying good youth players is surely the way forward.
Whether we have bought quality youth is yet to be decided, but what we have done is buy too much too soon. We currently have no partnerships that have played together before in any areas of the pitch and a captain that is still learning his position himself never mind leading others.
Personally I would rather go down trying to play the right way with the right setup than stay in the League with a manager like McLeish. I may be naive in thinking that way and there is a chance that it could go disastrously wrong but teams like WBA and Newcastle have also shown it can go right.
Of course I'd rather we scrape it and stay up, but this looks like a long term plan and many things will go wrong before they go right.
Any long term plan could not include a possible risk that we might drop so low. On what evidence does it look like a long term plan?'
Does anyone really think PL would survive a relegation ? The fans certainly wouldn't and the board would have to listen. Any manager that relegates my club doesn't deserve a second chance.
You are probably right the fans would not stand for it, but I'm not sure I agree about having a second chance.
If were looking for a longer term fix than rather a quick solution than you have to look past one season as being 1 chance.So if were not planning on buying big then we either do what teams like stoke and West ham are doing or look to a longer term plan like swansea, Wigan, and WBA have done.
If were convinced we have the right manager that wants to play good football then we have to back him for at least 3 seasons. Unless we have the right setup behind the scenes then chopping and changing managers at the first sign of trouble gives the club no stability.
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I understand his long term plan, and in fact support it.But putting faith in youth and ability has its flaws and fragilities.At the moment we look too weak mentally and physically, the players we currently have are not up to the task, and that includes the "senior " players.These players haven't performed for 3 seasons.So in that respect i agree with PL, and support him.
But with us being in such a precarious position, i think it needs to be a long term plan that is implemented in 1 month.Next season every Prem Lge team gets another £20m, we need to spend that now, on the right players granted, and probably more.Some will be a gamble, and some won't work, but if we don't get in 4/5 players in this transfer window, to go straight into the 1st team , then i don't think we will be in the Prem next season.
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i also agree that investment in youth could've been the way to go but it has to be implemented properly, that is not the cold turkey on experience that we've suffered over the last 2 years. We've sold so many experienced players and replaced them with novices.
Well meaning as this plan might have been it's also shockingly naive. This is not Lambert's fault, was happening way before he arrived and was imo a cost cutting exercise from a board that wanted their money back.
I have to believe this is the case as the other alternative, that RL and PF honestly thought this was the best way to bring us success is too laughable to comprehend.
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All these players need is some belief. They won't get that unless they start winning games or get someone in alongside them who knows how it's done.
Lambert signings to me seem good, there is plenty of potential there (I'm not sure about El Ahmadi mind to be developed.
Relegation wouldn't be good, can it ever? However, were we to drop, the standard would give the team the chance to win, develop as a team, and gain the winning mentality.
It's worked for a lot of teams recently and the old yo-yo effect of the same clubs up and down year after year has stopped.
Do I want us to go down? No. Do I think it uld do us good? Possibly but the risks involved are great.
Lambert is the right man for the job, he knows what it takes to win, he's got a plan and for once we need to stick with it.
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Relegation wouldn't be good, can it ever? However, were we to drop, the standard would give the team the chance to win, develop as a team, and gain the winning mentality.
It's worked for a lot of teams recently and the old yo-yo effect of the same clubs up and down year after year has stopped.
Do I want us to go down? No. Do I think it uld do us good? Possibly but the risks involved are great.
I also agree, i don't think relegation would be the end of the world. I thoroughly enjoyed our last visit to the 2nd tier. I don't want it find out particularly but it'd be nice to see us winning a few games rather than the misery of the last 3 seasons.
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All these players need is some belief. They won't get that unless they start winning games or get someone in alongside them who knows how it's done.
Lambert signings to me seem good, there is plenty of potential there (I'm not sure about El Ahmadi mind to be developed.
Relegation wouldn't be good, can it ever? However, were we to drop, the standard would give the team the chance to win, develop as a team, and gain the winning mentality.
It's worked for a lot of teams recently and the old yo-yo effect of the same clubs up and down year after year has stopped.
Do I want us to go down? No. Do I think it uld do us good? Possibly but the risks involved are great.
Lambert is the right man for the job, he knows what it takes to win, he's got a plan and for once we need to stick with it.
I agree, the players confidence is shot to pieces everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. The one thing Lambert would have not wanted yesterday was to loose an early goal. We need to have something to grasp onto to give us some rest bite but when your down their this is what happens.
I'm not sure were or how it will come about but a freak or lucky goal might swing it back for us, at the minute you just cant see anything but a loss in the next fixture.
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I want to see what Lambert can do with a settled and balanced squad before I make any judgement. For my part I think he will prove to be a competent but not great manager.
Currently we are in a perfect storm of personel and style changes, injuries, lack of experience, lack of skill (but that is endemic in the Premiership in my opinion), relegation pressure and rock-bottom confidence.
This is not what we all expected/wanted when TSM was replaced so it has come as a real blow - sacking PL now is madness.
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All these players need is some belief. They won't get that unless they start winning games or get someone in alongside them who knows how it's done.
Lambert signings to me seem good, there is plenty of potential there (I'm not sure about El Ahmadi mind to be developed.
Relegation wouldn't be good, can it ever? However, were we to drop, the standard would give the team the chance to win, develop as a team, and gain the winning mentality.
It's worked for a lot of teams recently and the old yo-yo effect of the same clubs up and down year after year has stopped.
Do I want us to go down? No. Do I think it uld do us good? Possibly but the risks involved are great.
Lambert is the right man for the job, he knows what it takes to win, he's got a plan and for once we need to stick with it.
With you all the way Drummond.
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I just can't understand people embracing the possibility of relegation as a positive! You definitely need experienced pros to get out of the championship, allied to hard work exactly what we haven't got. If we went down I could see us languishing in that league for years to come and we might even go lower!
This just reminds me of the Billy McNeill era when all hope was extinguished! Yes, I know we came back but its certainly a hell of a lot harder now then it has ever been.
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Relegation would be a disaster, no two ways about it. Would it be the end of the club? Of course not but anyone who thinks we would have a divine right to win games in the Championship is kidding themselves with the squad we've got. Lots of clubs have gone down with that mentality and not resurfaced.
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All these players need is some belief. They won't get that unless they start winning games or get someone in alongside them who knows how it's done.
Lambert signings to me seem good, there is plenty of potential there (I'm not sure about El Ahmadi mind to be developed.
Relegation wouldn't be good, can it ever? However, were we to drop, the standard would give the team the chance to win, develop as a team, and gain the winning mentality.
It's worked for a lot of teams recently and the old yo-yo effect of the same clubs up and down year after year has stopped.
Do I want us to go down? No. Do I think it uld do us good? Possibly but the risks involved are great.
Lambert is the right man for the job, he knows what it takes to win, he's got a plan and for once we need to stick with it.
Exactly my feelings.
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If he can guide us through these difficult times, keep us up and keep those young lads motivated and believing in themselves, I believe he could go on to become one of our greatest ever managers.
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I am for sticking with Paul Lambert. When I questioned 'the plan', I wasn't criticising his plan. He has a dwindling, already poor, pool of resources. We have all been guilty of it at some time but kicking a man when he is down will not resolve this.
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I think the job is now Lamberts for at least 3 years, relegation or not. Randy's must of had enough of playing 'find the manager' for the forseable future.
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Perhaps this thread needs a poll, to show at a glance that the vast majorityof us - me included - are behind Lambert. Sure, he's made mistakes but changing the manager now would be disastrous. Who on earth do people think Lerner and Faulkner would get in? It doesn't bear thinking about.
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We need to stick with him.
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Perhaps this thread needs a poll, to show at a glance that the vast majorityof us - me included - are behind Lambert. Sure, he's made mistakes but changing the manager now would be disastrous. Who on earth do people think Lerner and Faulkner would get in? It doesn't bear thinking about.
Know what you mean, but if the choice was relegation or try somebody else, what would be the answer then?. At present we look nailed on for the drop. Often a new manager comes in and gets some results.
I think we probably do have to stick, but twisting has crossed my mind as being worthwhile.
Would be interested to know how many more leatherings would it take for people on here to change their minds?
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I think the job is now Lamberts for at least 3 years, relegation or not. Randy's must of had enough of playing 'find the manager' for the forseable future.
Agreed. I'd stick with Lambert even if we go down. He has experience of promotion, is developing as a manager and would give us the stability we need. We have been chopping and changing since MON walked and it has been a disaster. With Lambert we have something to give us hope. Without him, that doesn't bear thinking about right now.
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Two interesting pages people should look at before saying Lambert out. Many people's favourite to take over is Martinez but the 09-10 season shows it can just be as bad under him. The good think is they survived which I think will do also! And conceded 79 goals over the season in total! They even got tonked by Portsmouth 4-0 (Southampton this year). 8-0 against Chelsea and 9-1 against spurs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8365091.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Wigan_Athletic_F.C._season
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Lambert has been a dissappointment in many ways and I was keen for him to get the job, I am worried about his tactics and selection but agree it would be a mistake to sack him now , give him at least this season and lets see where we are.
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We have to stick with him on the proviso that rather than picking ourselves up and going again, he picks up the phone to those senior players he has alienated and begs them to give him half a season of toil to keep us in this league.
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As an aside, I've some times been thinking that there are some analogies between Houllier and Lambert.
Both can be criticized for being too stubborn (ostracizing senior players with poor attitude at a seemingly high cost), not making a well-organized defence the number one priority and making too many changes too soon. Add to that a suspicion of an inadequate coaching team.
Hopefully this season will be analogous to the 2010-11 season in the sense that the injury list will clear up, and that the manager will be backed in the January transfer window.
(And both are better managers than Roy Keane.)
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This talk of Roy Keane is insane.
Have you read his biography? Sociopathic at best.
What he would do to a dressing room of youngsters is terrifying.
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I don't want him out, I want him to change his attitude!
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Poll added.
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We have to stick with him on the proviso that rather than picking ourselves up and going again, he picks up the phone to those senior players he has alienated and begs them to give him half a season of toil to keep us in this league.
Warnock or Hutton will save us? Are you for real?
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Which isn't the point and you know it. Anyway, how can you know about someone's attitude when you've never met him?
I have never met Sir Alex, but surely I am entitled to an opinion about him? My initial point was about potential managers like BFR and Peter Withe and I mentioned Nigel Kennedy then, if it has upset you that much I apologise profusely, but surely I am entitled to an opinion about someone? I never met Margaret Thatcher by the way, and have read some people saying far far worse things about her,
Nigel Kennedy is a gent. I had a season ticket in the seat behind him in the Holte in the '90's and he was as friendly and genuine as could be to everyone around him. Gave us free tickets to away games on several occasions as well. Top bloke!
If it was 1995 onwards, you must have been in the seat in front of me! Row 27?
It's odd that I can still remember seat numbers but can't recall what I had for breakfast yesterday.
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Nigel Kennedy is a decent, genuine guy and an avid Villa fan.
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I think the job is now Lamberts for at least 3 years, relegation or not. Randy's must of had enough of playing 'find the manager' for the forseable future.
Agreed. I'd stick with Lambert even if we go down.
Not for me, I don't believe in rewarding failure.
Keep him now, but if we drop he has to be got rid of quickly.
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We have to stick with him on the proviso that rather than picking ourselves up and going again, he picks up the phone to those senior players he has alienated and begs them to give him half a season of toil to keep us in this league.
Warnock or Hutton will save us? Are you for real?
And Lichaj, Bennett, Lowton will?
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We have to stick with him on the proviso that rather than picking ourselves up and going again, he picks up the phone to those senior players he has alienated and begs them to give him half a season of toil to keep us in this league.
Warnock or Hutton will save us? Are you for real?
And Lichaj, Bennett, Lowton will?
better chance yes
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We have to stick with him on the proviso that rather than picking ourselves up and going again, he picks up the phone to those senior players he has alienated and begs them to give him half a season of toil to keep us in this league.
Warnock or Hutton will save us? Are you for real?
And Lichaj, Bennett, Lowton will?
Maybe not, but the solution is not to bring back the clowns that nearly took us down last year.
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People are missing the fact that bringing experienced players in to the side isnt just about their own individual contribution.
Having that experience there will help the youngsters on the pitch to perform better - whether it's a quiet word when confidence is low, a scream and shout when they're out of position or a heads up when they know a certain player tends to behave in a certain way, knowledge gained through through playing against them for years.
Even though the likes of Warnock and Dunne have been nowhere near their best for years I'd rather have them in the side now than continue playing the youth team who look totally shellshocked by what's happening to them.
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I've voted for 'keep', although I had to think about it. I suppose there is no point changing things now with a transfer window just ahead, and it probably is best to try and get some continuity going.
That said, I do think he is gambling a little too much, and a touch recklessly, on the 'young & hungry'. We have had a few glimpses of what they could be capable of, but mostly we have been pretty poor. I can't help but think how they would have been doing alongside some senior players, coming into a steady team and learning as they go from those alongside them. This way of throwing them all in and expecting them to come up to scratch, consistently, doesn't seem the right way to me. I suppose we'll see if he's right in the end.
The other aspect which frustrates me is his tactical ability, which many said was his strength. I really don't see it at all. I've no problem with swapping formations around, but only if that is to counter a specific threat from the opposition - if that is what he has tried to do then he has failed fairly spectacularly on occasion.
I wasn't that excited about his appointment (only because I hadn't really paid too much attention to Norwich, but I can't say they ever impressed me overly), and I suppose so far I'm not much more impressed - as Risso points out in the opening post, it's a really, really bad start he's made.
I think he'll get more time, and hopefully some money to spend, to improve things, and he probably will, if only just enough to avoid relegation. I'm not sure if that's OK, though, and I still find myself wondering if another manager might have done better (for what it's worth, I think my preference in the summer was for Martinez....I think).
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We have to stick with him on the proviso that rather than picking ourselves up and going again, he picks up the phone to those senior players he has alienated and begs them to give him half a season of toil to keep us in this league.
Warnock or Hutton will save us? Are you for real?
And Lichaj, Bennett, Lowton will?
Maybe not, but the solution is not to bring back the clowns that nearly took us down last year.
Those would be the clowns that we stayed up with. I wouldn't normally advocate this sort of drastic measure but the situation we are in now is almost entirely of Lambert's making. He chose to spend another £20m on championship players and unknowns whilst at the same time alienating/moving on/whatever you want to call it, the senior players. It hasn't worked, we are in grave danger of losing our Premier League status, the financial ruin that goes with it, not to mention the ignominy. Now is not the time to prove points, now is the time to bring men not boys to the party.
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Actually, on the subject of who else could we bring in. Maybe not a replacement but as coaching support go and give Ray Wilkins a call. I am watching him talking a lot of sense on Sky at the moment.
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Its not the full back area that is costing us, its in the middle of the defence and the middle of the park.
Warnock and Hutton are garbage.
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He's put his faith in younger players so to drop them for old players who are no better seems a little pointless. I'd persevere because there's a good team in there, they just need to show it more often and believe in themselves more.
These players have the potential to do well and get better together. We may have stated up the last two seasons with experienced players, but it was just turning into a never ending circle of dullness. I've seen us play better football this season than in the last two (maybe longer). You may argue better football doesn't mean doing well, but as we're never going to win anything then I'd rather enjoy it (though I'm not saying its all been fun this season).
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Lambert actually is a man who makes me believe in his vision and what he wants to achieve. There is just something about him that instills positivism into the club. I have a lot more confidence in him than I ever had in mcleish.
We were all thrilled when we got him as manager in the summer and rightly so. its a bit silly to throw your toys out the pram when it gets bad. we need to be patient and accept where we are for the moment hoping to progress. it doesn't happen over night, its going to take time. we have a lot of rebuilding to do.
last 3 games have been a disgrace but we can't dwell on that bad, the only way we can move is to move forward.
Totally agree.Vlaar,Benteke,Lowton and Westwood good signings and I think Bennett will prove to be as well.Lambert also resigned Guzan.Nearly everybody wanted Collins,Warnock,Hutton and Dunne out which was half of TSMs side.
Lambert's main error was to trust in KEA.
If we get rid of Lambert it will be to our detriment and some other club's benefit.
its not just the astute buys he's made its also how he's transformed players who were fringe squad players into regular starters who deserve their place in the team. I've really enjoyed watching Weimann so far, he's a really clinical finisher in front of goal. Holman has worked his ass off and his work rate helps an inexperienced midfield. Baker and Stevens have looked quite solid at the back for the most part. Guzan has been more reliable compared to Given.
The problem is that Risso is looking at things short term and his emotion is getting the better of him. Already Lambert has done quite a lot of work already getting his stamp of authority in.working things how he wants it done his way. He knows what he wants and isnt afraid of what others might think. We need to look at the bigger picture and long term strategy. I know it sounds strange after today but I'm not devastated like a few on here. OK maybe I thought we wouldn't be where we are in the league now at the start of the season, but I keep telling myself the circumstances of this season and its not how you start its how you finish. I'm prepared to give Lambert much more of a chance than someone like mcleish because the difference is I believe in Lambert and what he's trying to do, I never believed in mcleish - he was the least inspiring Villa manager for me.
Exactly how I feel but I'm still worried.
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If Lambert were Spurs manager, or Everton, or Newcastle, Liverpool.... Would he still be in a job?
I hate putting the boot into managers so it's not nice to say, but after today he appears incapable of preparing a team fit for purpose (staying in this league). I'd have to seriously question his decision of going with the same shape as the previous two defeats for todays game.
He hasn't taken over Spurs,Everton etc,he's inherited a team that's been involved in relegation battles the last 2 seasons.Last year he was renowned for changing systems.At the moment,with a horrific injury list,he hasn't got 2 wide men he can count on.Albrighton,surely not ? 3,5,2 makes sense.
My point was about the club and it's peers. But, in fact, take any team in the top flight, or any other division for that matter and ask; 15 goals against, none scored. When does that ever happen? If it did, what would be the likely outcome?
Lambert has fielded a freakishly poor team 3 times on the bounce. Yes, some of that is down to circumstance, but some of it is down to naivety or ineptitude. A successful team relies on confidence, in the style of play and in it's leader. That's why I'm doubting ours.
Martinez at Wigan has the record I believe, think their fans are pretty happy he's still their boss.
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We really don't have any choice but to keep him (only because I couldn't face who our owners would dream up next) but I am really thinking he will take us down, absolutely clueless regarding tactics and formations!
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Getting shot of Lambert would be idiocy of the highest order. We need to throw a few bob in his direction for players not start scratching around for yet another new manager with different ideas.
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Getting shot of Lambert would be idiocy of the highest order. We need to throw a few bob in his direction for players not start scratching around for yet another new manager with different ideas.
I couldn't agree more, back Lambert, give him our support and we will become a great manager.
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We really don't have any choice but to keep him (only because I couldn't face who our owners would dream up next) but I am really thinking he will take us down, absolutely clueless regarding tactics and formations!
I think that's a little unfair. We've been hammered the last few games but we're pretty much down to bare bones at the moment but prior to that we'd been on a decent run, including wins at Liverpool and Norwich and a draw with Arsenal. I don't think we're in any position to make an informed judgement.
A couple of signings and a few of the injured players available and I think we'll see us a lot more competitive.
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we need Fat Frank ;)
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We have committed to his strategy now, and it is irreversible, for good or ill. Either we get the signings in January who will help the youngsters pick their heads up and play again, or we are trying to bounce back from a very tough division.
There is no retreat from here.
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I genuinely don't believe that Lambert is the problem, it's Lerner.
That's why i think we're probably going down tonight.
Lambert is the best we could have hoped for .
There is a good manager in there who can keep us up and I would never sack him at the moment but at times his formations, tactics , player choosing and substitutions have been mind boggling
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Welcome back Greg
why only 100 posts ? He use to spend 24 hours a day on here
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We really don't have any choice but to keep him (only because I couldn't face who our owners would dream up next) but I am really thinking he will take us down, absolutely clueless regarding tactics and formations!
I think that's a little unfair. We've been hammered the last few games but we're pretty much down to bare bones at the moment but prior to that we'd been on a decent run, including wins at Liverpool and Norwich and a draw with Arsenal. I don't think we're in any position to make an informed judgement.
A couple of signings and a few of the injured players available and I think we'll see us a lot more competitive.
Agree with everything you said.
We are down to bare bone. Look at the midfield yesterday, Ireland, Bannan and Holman. What were the alternatives with Delph suspended, KEA or Albrighton (I assume that PL has taken Westwood out of the firing line for the time being). Where is the bite? In the past we have been able to drop a defender into the centre but they are needed at the back. Is Warnock an option to bring back to play in midfield.
Other than Baker, all of the rest of the injuries have been to the experienced players and add to that, injuries to 3 of your 4 central defenders. Some people will say that injuries are just an excuse but then they are on a different agenda.
Give this manager real alternatives and he will take us forward.
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This talk of Roy Keane is insane.
Have you read his biography? Sociopathic at best.
What he would do to a dressing room of youngsters is terrifying.
I would definitely play him thou even at his age
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I still have some belief in what I think he is trying to do. I also had that with Houllier, but never with McLeish, nor for that matter O'Neill.
I'd like to know for sure how much of his transfer policy is self-imposed and how much a result of Lerner's cutbacks and instructions. If it's the former, he needs to realise that it isn't working and take the opportunity in January to put it right. If it's the owner, there isn't much he or any other manager can do.
He also needs to realise that the fullbacks he has signed are nowhere near good enough to provide the only width we have, nor to play in a 3-5-2 formation. I really wish he didn't have this aversion to wingers, even if only as a plan B when through the middle isn't working.
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I think when Nzogbia is fit , maybe he should try him as a wing back.
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Getting shot of Lambert would be idiocy of the highest order. We need to throw a few bob in his direction for players not start scratching around for yet another new manager with different ideas.
Spot on.
We've taken the plunge to go with his idea of how to get us playing, we now have to stick with it, and back him as much as we can.
This isn't going to be sorted in one season, it'll take much longer than that, we need to get used to the fact.
Personally, I wouldn't sack him even if we went down, I'd keep him and stick with his vision of how he does things.
This isn't a blinkered "can't see his problems / weaknesses" view, either, it's just my opinion that he has more progressive ways of wanting the team to play and that ultimately, it'll start to pay off at some point.
What this team needs more than anything is a bit of spine. When Wigan scored yesterday - with the worst possible timing, you could see the young heads dropping. We started to get into the game much more, and they scored again, and heads dropped once more.
He has made his mistakes - KEA isn't looking up to much, and I still think he relied way, way too much on inexperienced players (starting a match with Barry Bannan having the most PL appearances of the line up says it all) - but at the same time, I've easily seen enough to make me think he ultimately knows what he is doing.
This club needs to set out on a path which people will sign up to (and I believe they have) and to then back the manager with the time and resources necessary to achieve it.
I can't think of anything which would be more detrimental to this club now than to sack the manager, especially not given the timing. I've had enough of starting all over again repeatedly. It doesn't work.
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Incidentally, I note there still hasn't been a credible alternative suggested, if we were to sack him now.
That says it all.
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I am pretty sure one of the texts on BBC Sport last night calling for Lambert's head was from my Bluenose twat uncle.
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Incidentally, I note there still hasn't been a credible alternative suggested, if we were to sack him now.
That says it all.
I thought the Roy Keane thing had some legs ;)
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Lambert is as good as we will get. He could be very good.
But you can't build a Cathedral with second hand bricks and green pine.
Randy made this managerial decision, so apparently has made his mind up on what kind of 'soccer' we play.
This isn't cheap journeymen TSM/Stoke hoofball so he better have also made his mind up to invest big money. For real players. Or it can't work.
You can't have it both ways Randy. Appeasing the fans with a manager who wants to play modern football is not enough, he needs the players. So invest big time or, for God's sake man, sincere thanks but - GO.
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I think when Nzogbia is fit , maybe he should try him as a wing back.
Any idea when this might be?
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Hopefully we can ride this season out and survive as i think he is a good manager,a bad blip doesn't make him a poor one,the youngsters will be a season older,we desperately need to add a couple of older,quality heads in January and things can take a big turn for the better.
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There is no point sacking him ?
Depends on your viewpoint, if it's a short term fix to save us from relegation then an older, wiser head may be a good idea, but who ?
I think we have to stick with him and hope we can get the required wins between the tonkings, for there will be more of them, and hope he will bring some quality and experience in this window, but I have my doubts.
I thin what we need is a roven, experienced striker to tak the load off Benteke, someone like Darren.....
oh hang on >:(
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Think I am going to stop posting now as Paulie pretty much always says what I am thinking! I'd stick with Lambert even if we went down but if there were too many more pastings, I may start to have doubts!
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Getting shot of Lambert would be idiocy of the highest order. We need to throw a few bob in his direction for players not start scratching around for yet another new manager with different ideas.
Spot on.
We've taken the plunge to go with his idea of how to get us playing, we now have to stick with it, and back him as much as we can.
This isn't going to be sorted in one season, it'll take much longer than that, we need to get used to the fact.
Personally, I wouldn't sack him even if we went down, I'd keep him and stick with his vision of how he does things.
This isn't a blinkered "can't see his problems / weaknesses" view, either, it's just my opinion that he has more progressive ways of wanting the team to play and that ultimately, it'll start to pay off at some point.
What this team needs more than anything is a bit of spine. When Wigan scored yesterday - with the worst possible timing, you could see the young heads dropping. We started to get into the game much more, and they scored again, and heads dropped once more.
He has made his mistakes - KEA isn't looking up to much, and I still think he relied way, way too much on inexperienced players (starting a match with Barry Bannan having the most PL appearances of the line up says it all) - but at the same time, I've easily seen enough to make me think he ultimately knows what he is doing.
This club needs to set out on a path which people will sign up to (and I believe they have) and to then back the manager with the time and resources necessary to achieve it.
I can't think of anything which would be more detrimental to this club now than to sack the manager, especially not given the timing. I've had enough of starting all over again repeatedly. It doesn't work.
Totally agree with this , said as much as we left the ground yesterday.
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I would rather keep Lambert now, as I think it's too late to change course, although he must be given the money and orders to buy experience in January.
A credible alternative? It's reasonably common knowledge that Mark Hughes has been in the frame on the last two occasions, and I think would still be in Randy's thoughts if it came to it. He's available but whether the whole QPR disaster has tainted him is another matter.
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whether you want to accept it or not Lambert is still cleaning up the mess left by the previous 3 full time managers. It's not going to happen in his first season. He has to be given time to permanently rid himself of the contracts of Warnock, Hutton, Dunne, Makoun, N'Zogbia and even Given and Bent. He needs time to properly evaluate who of the kids is worth keeping. Just because Herd is playing poorly now doesn't make him shit. Maybe put him next to a proven player or introduce him gradually is the answer. But doing something utterly stupid like firing Lambert means the whole process starts again and we'll all be discussing this like it's Groundhog Day in 6-8 months.
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Lambert's bold strategy of bringing in young players of potential is backfiring, but I'd agree we have to keep the faith as changing manager again is no guarantee of anything better. Maybe the policy of young cheaper players is driven by Lerner's hold on the purse strings but with the significant loss of revenue if relegated must lead to some money being available in January, but the players PL would like may not be available or want to come to B6.
If some of the injured players are back soon, hopefully it will restore some confidence to the youngsters, but for now I'd just accept finishing 16th or 17th this season.
For me its Lambert In and give him another season, Championship or Premiership.
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This talk of Roy Keane is insane.
Have you read his biography? Sociopathic at best.
What he would do to a dressing room of youngsters is terrifying.
I would definitely play him thou even at his age
Exactly. I said the other day, when Lambert was thinking who to bring on, it should be himself.
Paul Scholes is unlikely to come here now but he would have made a great difference.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will stay in the job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
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we need an older pro that is willing to speak his mind and lift young heads. Guzan is the only one that can get at players but he's in goal. We really miss Stan out there.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
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whether you want to accept it or not Lambert is still cleaning up the mess left by the previous 3 full time managers. It's not going to happen in his first season. He has to be given time to permanently rid himself of the contracts of Warnock, Hutton, Dunne, Makoun, N'Zogbia and even Given and Bent. He needs time to properly evaluate who of the kids is worth keeping. Just because Herd is playing poorly now doesn't make him shit. Maybe put him next to a proven player or introduce him gradually is the answer. But doing something utterly stupid like firing Lambert means the whole process starts again and we'll all be discussing this like it's Groundhog Day in 6-8 months.
This, a million times this. We need to re-build, and I think Lambert is the man for the job. He needs to be backed to get some quality players though.
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That's not what the whisper was yesterday.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
I actually don't disagree with you. What I am saying is that there is no chance that supporters would tolerate it. Just watch the backlash come May. A new broom might help to shift tickets. I just think that will be the reality, not necessarily the best thing.
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That's not what the whisper was yesterday.
So what was it? He'd be sacked if we drop?
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That's not what the whisper was yesterday.
You old tease dc5, please elaborate on the whisper, even if only by pm?
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That is what the GM section of the site is for.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will stay in the job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
No the fans wont accept that but the fans should have more patience, behind me if we pass backwards there's nearly a riot so God know's what would happen if we were relegated
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will stay in the job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
No the fans wont accept that but the fans should have more patience, behind me if we pass backwards there's nearly a riot so God know's what would happen if we were relegated
Whether the fans would accept it or not won't come into it.
This is a board who appointed Alex McLeish.
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Thanks dc5.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will stay in the job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
No the fans wont accept that but the fans should have more patience, behind me if we pass backwards there's nearly a riot so God know's what would happen if we were relegated
Whether the fans would accept it or not won't come into it.
This is a board who appointed Alex McLeish.
And also the board who uninvited McLaren for an interview because of things said on "the Internet". I've no doubt McLeish went largely due to the an reaction and expected season ticket nosedive. They'd listen and Lambert would be out if he didn't walk first.
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And also the board who uninvited McLaren for an interview because of things said on "the Internet".
We dont know that, though. The press said it was the case, that doesn't necessarily mean it is true.
I'd also suggest that we'd be hard pressed to find someone better qualified to bring us back up than Lambert.
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If they knocked back Shecond Choice Schteve because of the reaction then why the feck did they appoint our erstwhile manager whose name should not be mentioned who was only going to provoke an even worse reaction?
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If they knocked back Shecond Choice Schteve because of the reaction then why the feck did they appoint our erstwhile manager whose name should not be mentioned who was only going to provoke an even worse reaction?
Indeed.
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Incidentally, I note there still hasn't been a credible alternative suggested, if we were to sack him now.
That says it all.
I did suggest Ray Wilkins to support him as a Senior Coach?
I note with interest that Keith Hill of Barnsley is now available.
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If they knocked back Shecond Choice Schteve because of the reaction then why the feck did they appoint our erstwhile manager whose name should not be mentioned who was only going to provoke an even worse reaction?
Maybe because the board based the protests on the fact that he was coming from down the road, not his poor record for playing terrible football.
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Incidentally, I note there still hasn't been a credible alternative suggested, if we were to sack him now.
That says it all.
I did suggest Ray Wilkins to support him as a Senior Coach?
You cant really force a support staff on a manager, though. It'd have to be a new manager or stick with what we have (Lambert, Culverhouse and Karsa are a team in the same way MON, Bibs and Cones were).
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If they knocked back Shecond Choice Schteve because of the reaction then why the feck did they appoint our erstwhile manager whose name should not be mentioned who was only going to provoke an even worse reaction?
Indeed.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jun/16/steve-mcclaren-confirms-aston-villa
I recall David Pleat also saying as much on five live based on a conversation he had with McClaren. I won't disagree with the baffling contradictory decision on TSM though. Predictable and rational they ain't!
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will stay in the job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
No the fans wont accept that but the fans should have more patience, behind me if we pass backwards there's nearly a riot so God know's what would happen if we were relegated
Whether the fans would accept it or not won't come into it.
This is a board who appointed Alex McLeish.
And also the board who uninvited McLaren for an interview because of things said on "the Internet". I've no doubt McLeish went largely due to the an reaction and expected season ticket nosedive. They'd listen and Lambert would be out if he didn't walk first.
So the best ITK will be if the Ticket Office start phoning round in March again, asking if people are going to renew.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will stay in the job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
No the fans wont accept that but the fans should have more patience, behind me if we pass backwards there's nearly a riot so God know's what would happen if we were relegated
Whether the fans would accept it or not won't come into it.
This is a board who appointed Alex McLeish.
And also the board who uninvited McLaren for an interview because of things said on "the Internet". I've no doubt McLeish went largely due to the an reaction and expected season ticket nosedive. They'd listen and Lambert would be out if he didn't walk first.
So the best ITK will be if the Ticket Office start phoning round in March again, asking if people are going to renew.
Could well be! But fear not Randy will get his 'magic 8 ball' out again to make the decisions. It can be the only explanation.
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I do not think for a minute that Lambert thought at the start of the season he would be sending out this side at Xmas in a 3-5-2 formation:
Guzan, Clark, Herd, Lowton, Lichaj, Bennett, Ireland, Holman, Bannan, Benteke, Weimann
Subs: Given, Westwood, Bowery, El Ahmadi, Carruthers, Stevens, Albrighton
To lose Vlaar who Lambert identified as his captain and leader of young players has been of a major significance and should not be down played because he has made a few mistakes coming to terms with the premier league.
The failure to sign an attacking midfield player has hurt us but having failed to bring in Dempsey it was not through not seeing what was required.
In hindsight, it is clear we need a dominant midfield player to protect the younger players. Perhaps he thought that playing more on the front foot that this type of player would not be required.
He is currently going through a game having been dealt a few shit hands. Let's hope the cards improve.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will stay in the job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
No the fans wont accept that but the fans should have more patience, behind me if we pass backwards there's nearly a riot so God know's what would happen if we were relegated
Whether the fans would accept it or not won't come into it.
This is a board who appointed Alex McLeish.
And also the board who uninvited McLaren for an interview because of things said on "the Internet". I've no doubt McLeish went largely due to the an reaction and expected season ticket nosedive. They'd listen and Lambert would be out if he didn't walk first.
By that logic why did they appoint McLeish then? Considering there was a riot at Villa Park.
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we need Fat Frank ;)
Yes fooking please.
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And also the board who uninvited McLaren for an interview because of things said on "the Internet".
We dont know that, though. The press said it was the case, that doesn't necessarily mean it is true.
I'd also suggest that we'd be hard pressed to find someone better qualified to bring us back up than Lambert.
when you consider the club hired mcleish in a climate when someone was being sent to the entrance of bodymoor heath to scrub off anti-mcleish grafitti, you don't think they'd get cold feet over some remarks on the internet.
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Lerner is in the country and has a meeting with Lambert tomorrow. And that comes from a nailed on, Villa working source. Big meeting ready for the transfer targets. Get your heads ready for a busy January.!!
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Lerner is in the country and has a meeting with Lambert tomorrow. And that comes from a nailed on, Villa working source. Big meeting ready for the transfer targets. Get your heads ready for a busy January.!!
It would'nt surprise me if one or two are lined up already.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
Why? It's him that's got us into this position. No ever Villa manager ever has turned in a Christmas period like this. This season has been a disaster so far.
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Lerner is in the country and has a meeting with Lambert tomorrow. And that comes from a nailed on, Villa working source. Big meeting ready for the transfer targets. Get your heads ready for a busy January.!!
It would'nt surprise me if one or two are lined up already.
Bloody hope so Clampy.
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And they'd better not be from Charlton, Burnley and bloody Ipswich
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McClaren was a bullet dodged...he last 3 months at Forest ffs!
But to then appoint TSM....just shows how inept the board have become sadly.
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McClaren was a bullet dodged...he last 3 months at Forest ffs!
But to then appoint TSM....just shows how inept the board have become sadly.
Made me think, that decision, beat Leeds 4-2 and then get the sack :o. Then they unveil a proven yoyo manager. Strange to say the least. Hope the bloke does well though because he is not a bad bloke at all.
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And they'd better not be from Charlton, Burnley and bloody Ipswich
Isn't the word on the street (Johnny) that he'll still be going for young players?
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I do not think for a minute that Lambert thought at the start of the season he would be sending out this side at Xmas in a 3-5-2 formation:
Guzan, Clark, Herd, Lowton, Lichaj, Bennett, Ireland, Holman, Bannan, Benteke, Weimann
Subs: Given, Westwood, Bowery, El Ahmadi, Carruthers, Stevens, Albrighton
To lose Vlaar who Lambert identified as his captain and leader of young players has been of a major significance and should not be down played because he has made a few mistakes coming to terms with the premier league.
The failure to sign an attacking midfield player has hurt us but having failed to bring in Dempsey it was not through not seeing what was required.
In hindsight, it is clear we need a dominant midfield player to protect the younger players. Perhaps he thought that playing more on the front foot that this type of player would not be required.
He is currently going through a game having been dealt a few shit hands. Let's hope the cards improve.
a bit of sense, he probably thought ireland wouldnt be so much of an utter piece of useless shit yesterday and may lead by experience and set an example, i am going to nail my colours firmly to the wall, i can see the good that we are trying to do on the pitch and i believe in the long term it wil be correct. we are badly missing vlaar and gabby, another couple of slightly more experienced players would not go amiss either. lambert probably thought dunne would be back playing by now. he would be a major plus!
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I do not think for a minute that Lambert thought at the start of the season he would be sending out this side at Xmas in a 3-5-2 formation:
Guzan, Clark, Herd, Lowton, Lichaj, Bennett, Ireland, Holman, Bannan, Benteke, Weimann
Subs: Given, Westwood, Bowery, El Ahmadi, Carruthers, Stevens, Albrighton
To lose Vlaar who Lambert identified as his captain and leader of young players has been of a major significance and should not be down played because he has made a few mistakes coming to terms with the premier league.
The failure to sign an attacking midfield player has hurt us but having failed to bring in Dempsey it was not through not seeing what was required.
In hindsight, it is clear we need a dominant midfield player to protect the younger players. Perhaps he thought that playing more on the front foot that this type of player would not be required.
He is currently going through a game having been dealt a few shit hands. Let's hope the cards improve.
I agree with the 'shit hand' sentiment to a point.
My concern - as someone who wanted PL here - is the tactical mess he's made, both at Chelsea (when he should have pushed Herd into a MF 4 and gone flat back four) and yesterday when he could have adopted the tactics Chelsea beat us with, with Martinez likely to stick with the 3-5-2.
Despite the crappy first goal and the poor defending of the 2nd and 3rd, I think Lambert set them up to fail.
I think we should stick with him but some of the blind faith has gone.
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And they'd better not be from Charlton, Burnley and bloody Ipswich
Isn't the word on the street (Johnny) that he'll still be going for young players?
<sobs>
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It would be madness to get ride of him:
1. Who would want to come / who would we get to replace him?
2. More turmoil with the squad/ transfers/new manager ideas which will lead to more instability.
3. Another financial hit for RL with pay off & possible compensation.
Have to see it through for a while I'm afraid even with the possibility of relegation.
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If we get rid of him I hate to think who would be next, who is out there?
Hopefully performances and results will improve, another 3 results like the last three and the crowd will soon turn and then Lerner might panic
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
Why? It's him that's got us into this position. No ever Villa manager ever has turned in a Christmas period like this. This season has been a disaster so far.
Because it would provide continuity and the club wouldn't be back to chopping and changing yet again. Unless off course Neil Warnock is free and you would rather he took over.
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Swansea, Ipswich, Southampton. 6 points and into the next round of the FA Cup. No probs. UTV.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
Why? It's him that's got us into this position. No ever Villa manager ever has turned in a Christmas period like this. This season has been a disaster so far.
Because it would provide continuity and the club wouldn't be back to chopping and changing yet again. Unless off course Neil Warnock is free and you would rather he took over.
What the hell has continuity got to do with it? If he takes us down he has to go. We've been appalling this season and he has to take his portion of responsibility. I'd hope he'd resign anyway.
Hopefully the real culprit will come to his senses and scraps his deranged idea that we can compete in the PL with a team packed with lower league players. Lerner has lost the plot and has turned the squad into an abomination.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
Why? It's him that's got us into this position. No ever Villa manager ever has turned in a Christmas period like this. This season has been a disaster so far.
Because it would provide continuity and the club wouldn't be back to chopping and changing yet again. Unless off course Neil Warnock is free and you would rather he took over.
What the hell has continuity got to do with it? If he takes us down he has to go. We've been appalling this season and he has to take his portion of responsibility. I'd hope he'd resign anyway.
Hopefully the real culprit will come to his senses and scraps his deranged idea that we can compete in the PL with a team packed with lower league players. Lerner has lost the plot and has turned the squad into an abomination.
Agreed. Still think we will be ok though.
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We all agree Mcleish was shite and should have fecked off. Thing is as much as I like Lambert and his philosophy, we were amongst the higher spenders in the summer so surely should be higher. I want Lambert to succeed, but he has to get some nous when it is going to be tough
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He doesn't need to go, he needs to recognise his errors and be back in the transfer market.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
Why? It's him that's got us into this position. No ever Villa manager ever has turned in a Christmas period like this. This season has been a disaster so far.
Because it would provide continuity and the club wouldn't be back to chopping and changing yet again. Unless off course Neil Warnock is free and you would rather he took over.
The Chelsea fans have been a bit quiet since Benitez won four league games on the spin. If somebody is doing really, really, REALLY badly at their job, as Lambert certainly is, you sack them and try to get somebody better in. Lambert's performance has just been unacceptably poor since he took over, and there has been no sign of improvement, whatsoever.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
Why? It's him that's got us into this position. No ever Villa manager ever has turned in a Christmas period like this. This season has been a disaster so far.
Because it would provide continuity and the club wouldn't be back to chopping and changing yet again. Unless off course Neil Warnock is free and you would rather he took over.
The Chelsea fans have been a bit quiet since Benitez won four league games on the spin. If somebody is doing really, really, REALLY badly at their job, as Lambert certainly is, you sack them and try to get somebody better in. Lambert's performance has just been unacceptably poor since he took over, and there has been no sign of improvement, whatsoever.
Maybe Lambert would have done better with Chelsea's players
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There have been signs of improvement. It would be a gross lie to say there haven't. Then last Sunday and the past 6 days took place.
There is also a huge difference in taking over a side with Cahill, Lampard, Mata, Oscar and Hazardg at your command. Its a real cackhanded argument to try and compare the managerial situation at Chelsea and Villa Park given the paucity of quality we have.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
Why? It's him that's got us into this position. No ever Villa manager ever has turned in a Christmas period like this. This season has been a disaster so far.
Because it would provide continuity and the club wouldn't be back to chopping and changing yet again. Unless off course Neil Warnock is free and you would rather he took over.
The Chelsea fans have been a bit quiet since Benitez won four league games on the spin. If somebody is doing really, really, REALLY badly at their job, as Lambert certainly is, you sack them and try to get somebody better in. Lambert's performance has just been unacceptably poor since he took over, and there has been no sign of improvement, whatsoever.
Riss, he has had fuck all to work with pal. Keep the faith. We all need long term posters on here to keep the faith,.33000 + posts dont lie. Cmon, Riss, faith is all thats needed. Villa will never go down.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
Why? It's him that's got us into this position. No ever Villa manager ever has turned in a Christmas period like this. This season has been a disaster so far.
Because it would provide continuity and the club wouldn't be back to chopping and changing yet again. Unless off course Neil Warnock is free and you would rather he took over.
The Chelsea fans have been a bit quiet since Benitez won four league games on the spin. If somebody is doing really, really, REALLY badly at their job, as Lambert certainly is, you sack them and try to get somebody better in. Lambert's performance has just been unacceptably poor since he took over, and there has been no sign of improvement, whatsoever.
Still waiting for your suggestions re how we go about that, right now, assuming we sack him.
As for "no sign of improvement whatsoever" - that is nonsense. Liverpool, Arsenal, Man U, Newcastle, Swansea off the top of my head.
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Another point re. the last three games, or two home games specifically; when I was a kid I used to get Villa tickets for Christmas.
I imagine that as six-year-old if my festive 'treat' was to see us lose three and four nil, in the cold, with a volatile atmosphere I'd be reconsidering my list for the next year.
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Still waiting for your suggestions re how we go about that, right now, assuming we sack him.
Aren't Fat Sam and Roy Keane our saviours? Mind you it's gone a bit quiet on the Fat Sam front since West Ham started losing.
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Still waiting for your suggestions re how we go about that, right now, assuming we sack him.
Aren't Fat Sam and Roy Keane our saviours? Mind you it's gone a bit quiet on the Fat Sam front since West Ham started losing.
I agree with Risso on quite a few things but, really, the constant need to sack the manager and immediately replace him with a non existent, immediately available alternative is getting more and more ridiculous.
Roy Keane? Crikey. He'd put together a handful of shit performances and we'd be on to Howard Wilkinson as the next saviour.
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It will come good, all of it. UTV
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Fu*k me this is a depressing thread. We will be FINE. We're halfway through the season with a new and inexperienced side, PL will pull it round. He kept Norwich up comfortably and can do the same for us (perhaps slightly less comfortably) keep the faith UTV
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Has anyone mentioned Mark Hughes?
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Has anyone mentioned Mark Hughes?
Please no!!
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
Why? It's him that's got us into this position. No ever Villa manager ever has turned in a Christmas period like this. This season has been a disaster so far.
Because it would provide continuity and the club wouldn't be back to chopping and changing yet again. Unless off course Neil Warnock is free and you would rather he took over.
The Chelsea fans have been a bit quiet since Benitez won four league games on the spin. If somebody is doing really, really, REALLY badly at their job, as Lambert certainly is, you sack them and try to get somebody better in. Lambert's performance has just been unacceptably poor since he took over, and there has been no sign of improvement, whatsoever.
I don't recall seeing your end of the world post after the Liverpool game? Apparently we wasn't doing really, really, REALLY badly at that point but in a week, granted of very poor results, every bit of good work and progress is to be discarded. You've simply discounted all of that plus all of the injuries to senior players that would have helped.
Still, I'm sure you'll be able to suggest his replacement given the plethora of quality choices who are currently out of work, or those willing to break their contracts and leg it to Villa Park.
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Has anyone mentioned Mark Hughes?
I sincerely hope not
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
Why? It's him that's got us into this position. No ever Villa manager ever has turned in a Christmas period like this. This season has been a disaster so far.
Because it would provide continuity and the club wouldn't be back to chopping and changing yet again. Unless off course Neil Warnock is free and you would rather he took over.
The Chelsea fans have been a bit quiet since Benitez won four league games on the spin. If somebody is doing really, really, REALLY badly at their job, as Lambert certainly is, you sack them and try to get somebody better in. Lambert's performance has just been unacceptably poor since he took over, and there has been no sign of improvement, whatsoever.
Still waiting for your suggestions re how we go about that, right now, assuming we sack him.
As for "no sign of improvement whatsoever" - that is nonsense. Liverpool, Arsenal, Man U, Newcastle, Swansea off the top of my head.
Agree that we have shown improvement this season, but for a third season in a row, we have suffered a bad run of injuries and have been reduced to fielding a team that simply isn't good enough in the top flight.
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Do you know what, i cannot believe we are even considering this shite. Lambert Out. Are we for real.?
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I said Hughes earlier. He was on the short list the last 2 times so folk say. Available immediately. Not saying I'd want him, but he is the obvious candidate if the trigger is pulled.
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I said Hughes earlier. He was on the short list the last 2 times so folk say. Available immediately. Not saying I'd want him, but he is the obvious candidate if the trigger is pulled.
The trigger won't be pulled and Mark Highes has been an absolute disgrace at QPR with the biggest overpaid bunch of wankers since MON was signing the likes of Habib Bye, Shorey et al. Next you'll be saying that Stephen Ireland isn't the biggest wanker in the works ever...which he is.
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I said Hughes earlier. He was on the short list the last 2 times so folk say. Available immediately. Not saying I'd want him, but he is the obvious candidate if the trigger is pulled.
And what a candidate he'd be - the bloke who assembled the team and squad currently rooted to the bottom of the table.
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I said Hughes earlier. He was on the short list the last 2 times so folk say. Available immediately. Not saying I'd want him, but he is the obvious candidate if the trigger is pulled.
The trigger won't be pulled and Mark Highes has been an absolute disgrace at QPR with the biggest overpaid bunch of wankers since MON was signing the likes of Habib Bye, Shorey et al. Next you'll be saying that Stephen Ireland isn't the biggest wanker in the works ever...which he is.
Or the 'world' even.....
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
Why? It's him that's got us into this position. No ever Villa manager ever has turned in a Christmas period like this. This season has been a disaster so far.
Because it would provide continuity and the club wouldn't be back to chopping and changing yet again. Unless off course Neil Warnock is free and you would rather he took over.
The Chelsea fans have been a bit quiet since Benitez won four league games on the spin. If somebody is doing really, really, REALLY badly at their job, as Lambert certainly is, you sack them and try to get somebody better in. Lambert's performance has just been unacceptably poor since he took over, and there has been no sign of improvement, whatsoever.
Sack him and replace him with?
Has he turned into a bad manager in the last couple of weeks?
No.....
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I said Hughes earlier. He was on the short list the last 2 times so folk say. Available immediately. Not saying I'd want him, but he is the obvious candidate if the trigger is pulled.
Fuck me. Have we gone so low? Hughes ? Cmon Villa, FFS. No chance, we will be fine, just, then watch us go next season. UTV with Lambert.
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I said Hughes earlier. He was on the short list the last 2 times so folk say. Available immediately. Not saying I'd want him, but he is the obvious candidate if the trigger is pulled.
And what a candidate he'd be - the bloke who assembled the team and squad currently rooted to the bottom of the table.
Indeed. Let's give Lambert a chance, we've had an absolutely shocking week and noone can deny that but let's allow him to get some players in in the window. We're not buried or anything, we need to give him the chance to address our situation.
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People on this board seem to confuse what someone wants to happen with what they think may happen, given particular circumstances. FFS!
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I said Hughes earlier. He was on the short list the last 2 times so folk say. Available immediately. Not saying I'd want him, but he is the obvious candidate if the trigger is pulled.
And what a candidate he'd be - the bloke who assembled the team and squad currently rooted to the bottom of the table.
Don't even joke about it...
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I said Hughes earlier. He was on the short list the last 2 times so folk say. Available immediately. Not saying I'd want him, but he is the obvious candidate if the trigger is pulled.
Fuck me. Have we gone so low? Hughes ? Cmon Villa, FFS. No chance, we will be fine, just, then watch us go next season. UTV with Lambert.
Hughes can f*ck off to Blackburn and be responsible then for relegating two teams in a season. We stay with Lambert, quite simply there is no managerial alternative. The team are young, they're also shite, but they are our team and our club and we have no alternative.
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What use was he at Man City with all those resources at his disposal? Useless.
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If Lambert gets us relegated, there isn't a cat in hells chance that he will staying he job. Can you really see the fans accepting that? Long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated.
I don't think that he'd be fired at all. In fact we'd have a much better chance of coming back up with him in charge.
Why? It's him that's got us into this position. No ever Villa manager ever has turned in a Christmas period like this. This season has been a disaster so far.
Because it would provide continuity and the club wouldn't be back to chopping and changing yet again. Unless off course Neil Warnock is free and you would rather he took over.
The Chelsea fans have been a bit quiet since Benitez won four league games on the spin. If somebody is doing really, really, REALLY badly at their job, as Lambert certainly is, you sack them and try to get somebody better in. Lambert's performance has just been unacceptably poor since he took over, and there has been no sign of improvement, whatsoever.
I don't recall seeing your end of the world post after the Liverpool game? Apparently we wasn't doing really, really, REALLY badly at that point but in a week, granted of very poor results, every bit of good work and progress is to be discarded. You've simply discounted all of that plus all of the injuries to senior players that would have helped.
Still, I'm sure you'll be able to suggest his replacement given the plethora of quality choices who are currently out of work, or those willing to break their contracts and leg it to Villa Park.
The Liverpool game was just Lambert's equivalent of Chelsea away under McLeish. A complete one off totally at odds with most of the other league performances.
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So are you still advocating Keane then, risso?
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So are you still advocating Keane then, risso?
Or Steve Bruce maybe. He's doing well at Hull
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So are you still advocating Keane then, risso?
Or Steve Bruce maybe. He's doing well at Hull
Or why not call Trevor Francis to see if he's free?
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Lambert took over a team that had won 15 points in the last 19 league games last season. Before the Chelsea game it looked as if he was slowly turning a team that seemed almost vaccinated against winning into a decent side.
In the squad there are two reliable experienced players: Vlaar and Agbonlahor. Both are injured. After the drubbing against Chelsea, the youngsters' confidence is shot, and it's clear that we cannot survive on hunger and enthusiasm alone.
Lambert can be criticised for mainly two things: that he failed in signing a decent, experienced central midfielder last summer (KEA looks, sadly, to be a truly shit signing), and that neither he nor his coaches seem able to organise a defence. But that doesn't make him useless at the job. Our dismal stats (most conceded, least scored etc) are mainly a function of the previous three matches, which we must hope are anomalies. They are perhaps somewhat due to Lambert's lack of tactical nous, but mainly due to the hand he has been dealt. Without those results his record is not great, but surely not unacceptably bad considering the state of the squad and the club when he started his job.
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So are you still advocating Keane then, risso?
Or Steve Bruce maybe. He's doing well at Hull
Or why not call Trevor Francis to see if he's free?
Saw him this morning in Solihull. Looked as if he wasn't doing much.
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So are you still advocating Keane then, risso?
Or Steve Bruce maybe. He's doing well at Hull
Or why not call Trevor Francis to see if he's free?
Saw him this morning in Solihull. Looked as if he wasn't doing much.
How much is The Big Issue these days anyway?
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Yes let's get Lambert out and bring in Dave Bassett or Iain Dowie and turn us into a complete joke.
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I think when Nzogbia is fit , maybe he should try him as a wing back.
Any idea when this might be?
the same time as Dunne probably
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Rumours on Twitter concerning Owen Coyle coming as an Assistant Manager can be discounted. Very bad source. Don't fall for it.
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Yes let's get Lambert out and bring in Dave Bassett or Iain Dowie and turn us into a complete joke.
After conceding 15 goals in 3 games I'd suggest Lambert's already turned us into a joke.
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Well that would if we need assistance in getting relegated! Obviously a small Heath tweat.
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Yes let's get Lambert out and bring in Dave Bassett or Iain Dowie and turn us into a complete joke.
After conceding 15 goals in 3 games I'd suggest Lambert's already turned us into a joke.
Nothing to stop you from suggesting that however we are not a joke club, never have been , never will be.
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Ottmar Hitzfeld.
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Ottmar Hitzfeld.
He is nicknamed 'The General' so would be ideal.
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
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I can't see Lambert being sacked any time soon, even if results continue to go against us.
I would have thought the more likely event would be Lambert deciding that being manager of Villa can only tarnish his reputation from hereon and jumping ship whilst he still has any kind of reputation left and the mitigating factors in the club's league position are fresh in the mind.
I suspect he has enough career ahead of him to make this more important than a payoff.
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
what did he expect . signing 7 players with no experience in the prem
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
what did he expect . signing 7 players with no experience in the prem
In the article he pretty much says his rationale was "it worked at Norwich last year" link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report).
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It may work at Villa, but it's too much of a gamble. There's a huge difference blooding younger and more inexperienced players at a newly promoted club with less expectation. This is Aston Villa. Which means we expect more than we should.
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This is a big January for Lambert. It could make or break his career. Some shrewd signings, turn things around in the second half of the season and move onwards and upwards with Villa. Or he royally fucks it up with the wrong buys/loans, Villa end up relegated and he then gets booted back to Norfolk or Scotland, or as far away from Villa Park as possible. It's your time now Paul, step up to the plate. It's shit or bust time!
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... We've been appalling this season ...
The usual sweeping statement. We were certainly appaling on Saturday and that followed two pretty piss-poor games.
We were poor at S'ton.
There have been games where we played far better football than at any point last season.
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This whole idea of buying lower league players as a 'strategy' is just obviously bollocks. I'd suggest the market for players is basically pretty efficient and that they usually find their level pretty early on. That's not to say good scouting or an imaginative manager won't find the odd gem but that's different from relying on a load coming in at once to keep you in the premier league.
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There have been games where we played far better football than at any point last season.
Exactly that. Last season our poor play meant we should have went down. If we go down this year it will be weird. Especially as in most areas we have improved.
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I am sure he will get it right in January. He has to or else we are bolloxed.
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Leeds had to all those years ago, they didn't... and so on....
I'm fucking scared man.
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
what did he expect . signing 7 players with no experience in the prem
In the article he pretty much says his rationale was "it worked at Norwich last year" link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report).
In fairness, you can't blame him for sticking with the policy that's worked for him in the past. There's some very useful players at Norwich at the moment (Pilkington being one).
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He signed some very useful players here last summer. The issue is partly that 9 was not enough to cover the gaping holes in the squad. We needed another 3. Got those and we might be a few points better off and still extolling the virtues of the young players he signed. Only 1 has been a real disappointment, but the most pivotal given our squad situation.
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
what did he expect . signing 7 players with no experience in the prem
In the article he pretty much says his rationale was "it worked at Norwich last year" link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report).
In fairness, you can't blame him for sticking with the policy that's worked for him in the past. There's some very useful players at Norwich at the moment (Pilkington being one).
The problem with that argument is that a squad that achieves promotion together has the benefit of having worked well in the past. Any new addition is coming into an established team environment.
We have all the characteristics of a newly-promoted side but none of the benefits.
And it's the "it worked at Norwich" comment which worries me: our situation was entirely different and PL should have recognised that.
In his defence, I'd say he probably expected more from the established players he inherited than in fact he got. When you consider that he took on a squad with Warnock, N'Zog, GA, Ireland, Bent, Given and Albrighton - all experienced PL players (and I'm ignoring the ones whom he had probably in his mind already written off) - he probably thought he'd got enough experience to work with.
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
what did he expect . signing 7 players with no experience in the prem
In the article he pretty much says his rationale was "it worked at Norwich last year" link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report).
In fairness, you can't blame him for sticking with the policy that's worked for him in the past. There's some very useful players at Norwich at the moment (Pilkington being one).
The problem with that argument is that a squad that achieves promotion together has the benefit of having worked well in the past.
A mate said exactly the same thing to me on Saturday and it's a fair point and one i'd forgotten.
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In his defence, I'd say he probably expected more from the established players he inherited than in fact he got. When you consider that he took on a squad with Warnock, N'Zog, GA, Ireland, Bent, Given and Albrighton - all experienced PL players (and I'm ignoring the ones whom he had probably in his mind already written off) - he probably thought he'd got enough experience to work with.
Exactly right mate...
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He inherited some the Norwich players and added to them over the 2 years in a lower league, he has bought in 7 players in as many weeks here and they haven't had chance to gel over time, they've been thrown in to sink or swim , the players we already had here have been of little or no help to him.
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I said Hughes earlier. He was on the short list the last 2 times so folk say. Available immediately. Not saying I'd want him, but he is the obvious candidate if the trigger is pulled.
And what a candidate he'd be - the bloke who assembled the team and squad currently rooted to the bottom of the table.
It would be a fine chance for him to emulate McNeill, and for me to hate him with even more passion.
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
what did he expect . signing 7 players with no experience in the prem
In the article he pretty much says his rationale was "it worked at Norwich last year" link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report).
already a group that had worked together for years , not just thrown together in mths.
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McLeish and now Lambert have been very badly let down by three or four "senior" players.
I hink Lambert will get the opportunity to get rid mind.
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Howard Wilkinson would be brilliant. He's the kind of man who has a really tidy shed. Lots of spare sticks for stirring paint, and separate fuel cans for petrol and two-stroke.
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Howard Wilkinson would be brilliant. He's the kind of man who has a really tidy shed. Lots of spare sticks for stirring paint, and separate fuel cans for petrol and two-stroke.
I have trouble sleeping,it would be a great signing.
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I think, just like your young squad, we have to accept Lambert is still learning, he's not the finished article, he will make mistakes but overall we've got a bloody good manager who WILL improve over time.
He's got all the characteristics to sort us out, he's not looking for excuses or demanding more money to buy his way out of his mistakes. So far he's been very careful with the transfer budget, not even spending it all last summer, he may have miscalculated the need for experience but I doubt there's many on here that anticipated such an injury list at this time of year.
We need to understand just how big the Villa job is, it's not for the weak or the cowardly. Lambert is a fighter and I still believe he's the right man for the job. Hopefully it won't be too long before we look back over these recent spankings and reflect it wasn't just the team that was work in progress but the manager too and we were right to stick with him.
To date, the Villa fans have been superb with their support for the team and manager, hopefully we'll soon be rewarded for that loyalty. Nobody said it would be easy dragging us into the 21st century but when we get there, it will have been worth the long, hard journey.
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I really don't think that we should be bringing in manager's on the basis they have a tidy shed. I know we all love a tidy shed but where will it all end? Bobby Gould because he has a lovely allottment?
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Yes let's get Lambert out and bring in Dave Bassett or Iain Dowie and turn us into a complete joke.
After conceding 15 goals in 3 games I'd suggest Lambert's already turned us into a joke.
Nothing to stop you from suggesting that however we are not a joke club, never have been , never will be.
Other than in your original post, of course!
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I think, just like your young squad, we have to accept Lambert is still learning, he's not the finished article, he will make mistakes but overall we've got a bloody good manager who WILL improve over time.
He's got all the characteristics to sort us out, he's not looking for excuses or demanding more money to buy his way out of his mistakes. So far he's been very careful with the transfer budget, not even spending it all last summer, he may have miscalculated the need for experience but I doubt there's many on here that anticipated such an injury list at this time of year.
We need to understand just how big the Villa job is, it's not for the weak or the cowardly. Lambert is a fighter and I still believe he's the right man for the job. Hopefully it won't be too long before we look back over these recent spankings and reflect it wasn't just the team that was work in progress but the manager too and we were right to stick with him.
To date, the Villa fans have been superb with their support for the team and manager, hopefully we'll soon be rewarded for that loyalty. Nobody said it would be easy dragging us into the 21st century but when we get there, it will have been worth the long, hard journey.
If he drags us into the Championship, which is looking the more likely scenario, it won't have been worth it. At the time of the new TV deal, that will be suicidal.
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
what did he expect . signing 7 players with no experience in the prem
In the article he pretty much says his rationale was "it worked at Norwich last year" link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report).
In fairness, you can't blame him for sticking with the policy that's worked for him in the past. There's some very useful players at Norwich at the moment (Pilkington being one).
Different dynamic, though. Norwich were a team on the up, they formed their team bonds as they came through the divisions.
We are a club heading in the opposite direction, with a momentum that will kill off the spirits of young players.
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We are not going down and Lambert will get it right.
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Why am I not surprised you fools are dissing Wilko and his tidy shed?
Hataz gonna hate
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
what did he expect . signing 7 players with no experience in the prem
In the article he pretty much says his rationale was "it worked at Norwich last year" link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report).
In fairness, you can't blame him for sticking with the policy that's worked for him in the past. There's some very useful players at Norwich at the moment (Pilkington being one).
Different dynamic, though. Norwich were a team on the up, they formed their team bonds as they came through the divisions.
We are a club heading in the opposite direction, with a momentum that will kill off the spirits of young players.
And yet it's still worth sticking with him?
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There is no alternative but to stick with Lambert but I think if we continue to get walloped week in week out RL will have no option
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Why am I not surprised you fools are dissing Wilko and his tidy shed?
Hataz gonna hate
You forgot the obligatory meme pic:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IqjvDMz_qEw/T325P69J_lI/AAAAAAAAA9M/kSnQ4AugpTI/s640/Haters-gonna-hate-cat.jpg)
The cat is Wilko.
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There is no alternative but to stick with Lambert but I think if we continue to get walloped week in week out RL will have no option
You're contradicting yourself rather massively there aren't you? On the one hand, we HAVE to stick with Lambert, but on the other hand, if things continue to be shit, Lerner HAS to sack him?
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I really don't think that we should be bringing in manager's on the basis they have a tidy shed. I know we all love a tidy shed but where will it all end? Bobby Gould because he has a lovely allottment?
Couldnt trap a bag of cement! Shanks.
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We are not going down and Lambert will get it right.
What makes you think this?
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There is no alternative but to stick with Lambert but I think if we continue to get walloped week in week out RL will have no option
You're contradicting yourself rather massively there aren't you? On the one hand, we HAVE to stick with Lambert, but on the other hand, if things continue to be shit, Lerner HAS to sack him?
Not really no. I'm saying he shouldn't be sacked at this present time but continue to get walloped on a weekly basis it would be difficult for RL to keep him.
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Lambert has to and will be given time to sort us out. Whilst i'm not sure he will, I think he represents our very best bet to get out of the mire. January is make or break so we have to continue backing him and treat every game like the cup final it's going to be. Cliche corner but it's true!
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
what did he expect . signing 7 players with no experience in the prem
In the article he pretty much says his rationale was "it worked at Norwich last year" link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report).
In fairness, you can't blame him for sticking with the policy that's worked for him in the past. There's some very useful players at Norwich at the moment (Pilkington being one).
Different dynamic, though. Norwich were a team on the up, they formed their team bonds as they came through the divisions.
We are a club heading in the opposite direction, with a momentum that will kill off the spirits of young players.
And yet it's still worth sticking with him?
Yes.
Still waiting to hear your suggestion for how to proceed should we sack him today, btw (i'm assuming Roy Keane wasn't a serious one). In fact, you're going to need more than one or two suggestions, as it's not a case of "choose him, he'll come".
If you can't come up with a better, realistic solution, it's just pointless anger for the sake of it. Sacking him the day before the window open would be totally nuts.
What if it takes three weeks to get a new man in? We're then left with someone unfamiliar with the squad with one week to get people in. In January.
Sacking Lambert would mean throwing away all the scouting work done, all the work done on the training pitch, purely because thus far we've struggled.
Don't you remember how utterly shit we were last season? That's not going to get fixed in a hurry.
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There is no alternative but to stick with Lambert but I think if we continue to get walloped week in week out RL will have no option
You're contradicting yourself rather massively there aren't you? On the one hand, we HAVE to stick with Lambert, but on the other hand, if things continue to be shit, Lerner HAS to sack him?
Not really no. I'm saying he shouldn't be sacked at this present time but continue to get walloped on a weekly basis it would be difficult for RL to keep him.
I would be suprised if anybody has been down his heartbreak cellar to tell him we have lost.
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Why am I not surprised you fools are dissing Wilko and his tidy shed?
Hataz gonna hate
You forgot the obligatory meme pic:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IqjvDMz_qEw/T325P69J_lI/AAAAAAAAA9M/kSnQ4AugpTI/s640/Haters-gonna-hate-cat.jpg)
The cat is Wilko.
Off topic but I don't get this picture...
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Don't you remember how utterly shit we were last season? That's not going to get fixed in a hurry.
But the players were surely not brainwashed into the tactics of Alex McLeish so is the fix purely to change the players?
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Don't you remember how utterly shit we were last season? That's not going to get fixed in a hurry.
But the players were surely not brainwashed into the tactics of Alex McLeish so is the fix purely to change the players?
Maybe it is, but the common fact is that, whether it be McLeish's time, MON's departure, the Houllier year, off the pitch troubles, whatever the cause of where we were last season, it doesn't mattter, the important thing is that we were desperately poor, and it'll take time to stop the momentum behind the club taking us down.
Some people think there's an easy option - you just sack the manager as we enter the crucial January transfer window, and there's automatically someone who is
- better
- available
- happy to come here
and they'll join immediately (and install their entire back room staff), have a thorough overview of our squad, and a predetermined set of transfer targets to allow them to hit the ground running.
It is utter bollocks, it just doesn't happen like that, and some of us need to get over our anger at the last few games and realise that it is actually quite easy to do the "obvious" thing out of anger and make us much worse as a result.
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Don't you remember how utterly shit we were last season? That's not going to get fixed in a hurry.
But the players were surely not brainwashed into the tactics of Alex McLeish so is the fix purely to change the players?
Spot on.And how much do we keep losing by paying off managers and staff and hiring new ones?
Maybe it is, but the common fact is that, whether it be McLeish's time, MON's departure, the Houllier year, off the pitch troubles, whatever the cause of where we were last season, it doesn't mattter, the important thing is that we were desperately poor, and it'll take time to stop the momentum behind the club taking us down.
Some people think there's an easy option - you just sack the manager as we enter the crucial January transfer window, and there's automatically someone who is
- better
- available
- happy to come here
and they'll join immediately (and install their entire back room staff), have a thorough overview of our squad, and a predetermined set of transfer targets to allow them to hit the ground running.
It is utter bollocks, it just doesn't happen like that, and some of us need to get over our anger at the last few games and realise that it is actually quite easy to do the "obvious" thing out of anger and make us much worse as a result.
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Should have added in agreement with pauliewalnuts comments and also how much money have we lost by paying off managers and staff and hiring new ones?
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This is no way a pop at lambert. I do rate him and I was one of the people who wanted him as manager.
This is his time to earn is salary now. He need to regroup the team for tomorrow. He need to get the right calibre of player in as soon as he possibly can and he needs to turn this around. We're not dead and buried yet. There's still plenty of points to take. We are only a few signings away from being a good strong side. It's just at the moment the kids out there are getting slaughtered and there's no one on the pitch that they can turn to or that has the experience to dig themselves out of the situation.
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Chris Hughton anyone? He is doing a great job with Lamberts old players.
Only kidding as we have to stick with Lambert and give him time like we did
with that idiot we had last year. As others have said he needs to change his tactics and learn.
As much as I dislike Harry he changed QPRs game yesterday with tactical subs and stopped them
getting a crushing defeat.
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Maybe it is, but the common fact is that, whether it be McLeish's time, MON's departure, the Houllier year, off the pitch troubles, whatever the cause of where we were last season, it doesn't mattter, the important thing is that we were desperately poor, and it'll take time to stop the momentum behind the club taking us down.
Some people think there's an easy option - you just sack the manager as we enter the crucial January transfer window, and there's automatically someone who is
- better
- available
- happy to come here
and they'll join immediately (and install their entire back room staff), have a thorough overview of our squad, and a predetermined set of transfer targets to allow them to hit the ground running.
It is utter bollocks, it just doesn't happen like that, and some of us need to get over our anger at the last few games and realise that it is actually quite easy to do the "obvious" thing out of anger and make us much worse as a result.
Absolutely bang on the money for me.
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Don't you remember how utterly shit we were last season? That's not going to get fixed in a hurry.
But the players were surely not brainwashed into the tactics of Alex McLeish so is the fix purely to change the players?
Maybe it is, but the common fact is that, whether it be McLeish's time, MON's departure, the Houllier year, off the pitch troubles, whatever the cause of where we were last season, it doesn't mattter, the important thing is that we were desperately poor, and it'll take time to stop the momentum behind the club taking us down.
Some people think there's an easy option - you just sack the manager as we enter the crucial January transfer window, and there's automatically someone who is
- better
- available
- happy to come here
and they'll join immediately (and install their entire back room staff), have a thorough overview of our squad, and a predetermined set of transfer targets to allow them to hit the ground running.
It is utter bollocks, it just doesn't happen like that, and some of us need to get over our anger at the last few games and realise that it is actually quite easy to do the "obvious" thing out of anger and make us much worse as a result.
Have to agree with Paulie, now is not the time to change managers yet again. PL has to have another season to give policies a chance to work, even if we're relegated.
Are there any rumours emerging from PL's meeting with RL yesterday?
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Extend Lambert's contract now.Bit of positivity ,eh ? Last year,Lambert was the manager who changed his formations and tactics the most in the PL to combat the opposition.His faith in the squad has been misplaced,injuries not helping,and now he has a transfer window to address the problems or,at least ,some of the problems.
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Don't you remember how utterly shit we were last season? That's not going to get fixed in a hurry.
But the players were surely not brainwashed into the tactics of Alex McLeish so is the fix
purely to change the players?
Maybe it is, but the common fact is that, whether it be McLeish's time, MON's departure, the Houllier year, off the pitch troubles, whatever the cause of where we were last season, it doesn't mattter, the important thing is that we were desperately poor, and it'll take time to stop the momentum behind the club taking us down.
Some people think there's an easy option - you just sack the manager as we enter the crucial January transfer window, and there's automatically someone who is
- better
- available
- happy to come here
and they'll join immediately (and install their entire back room staff), have a thorough overview of our squad, and a predetermined set of transfer targets to allow them to hit the ground running.
It is utter bollocks, it just doesn't happen like that, and some of us need to get over our anger at the last few games and realise that it is actually quite easy to do the "obvious" thing out of anger and make us much worse as a result.
Yes. It is the overall state that we were in last season with the resources new had that has carried over into this season. People clamour for players like Dunne to come back, who they previously couldn't drive out of the club quick enough.
That smells of panic setting in to me.
We can't panic. There is only one way out and we all know it; that is more experience on the pitch.
That will be hard to find. Even harder by bringing a new manager in who would probably be expected to wave a magic wand with the current squad. What a disaster that would be. They certainly won't bring in a new manager AND spend loads on transfers.
Paul Lambert knows what we have and what we need. Give him the chance to do it.
By the way, my original comment on brainwashing was just to tease out if anyone still blamed McLeish's tactics for the current state of affairs.
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Players seem to get better when they're not playing. Cuellar was the perfect example.
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Paul Lambert was not my first choice as Manager but I supported his appointment.
I still support Paul and changing Manager now is not the right course of action for me, he needs to be judged at the end of the season.
Paul also needs that little bit of luck when it comes to our injury list, he also needs to bring in a few quality players during the transfer window.
Our problems are wide and various which in most part had nothing to do with Mr Lambert..
There is a lot of work to do at Villa and we have to give Paul time to sort out the mess were in at the moment...
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Extend Lambert's contract now.Bit of positivity ,eh ? Last year,Lambert was the manager who changed his formations and tactics the most in the PL to combat the opposition.His faith in the squad has been misplaced,injuries not helping,and now he has a transfer window to address the problems or,at least ,some of the problems.
And yet his tactics lately have been appalling.
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Chris Hughton anyone? He is doing a great job with Lamberts old players.
That's who we should have got instead of McLeish last season.
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Chris Hughton anyone? He is doing a great job with Lamberts old players.
That's who we should have got instead of McLeish last season.
That's exactly what I thought when Blues employed him.I was gutted
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There is no alternative but to stick with Lambert but I think if we continue to get walloped week in week out RL will have no option
god help him If we get walloped 4-0 tomorrow
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Chris Hughton anyone? He is doing a great job with Lamberts old players.
Only kidding as we have to stick with Lambert and give him time like we did
with that idiot we had last year. As others have said he needs to change his tactics and learn.
As much as I dislike Harry he changed QPRs game yesterday with tactical subs and stopped them
getting a crushing defeat.
talking of Harry
I heard he is calling back Dj Campbell , bothroyd and Hulse , so we could stay up yet ;)
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Why am I not surprised you fools are dissing Wilko and his tidy shed?
Hataz gonna hate
You forgot the obligatory meme pic:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IqjvDMz_qEw/T325P69J_lI/AAAAAAAAA9M/kSnQ4AugpTI/s640/Haters-gonna-hate-cat.jpg)
The cat is Wilko.
Off topic but I don't get this picture...
It's a cat goose stepping. Another thing in Wilko's favour. He does come across as the kind of supremo who would make the trains run on time.
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Sack Lambert and bring in Wilko the cat.
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Don't you remember how utterly shit we were last season? That's not going to get fixed in a hurry.
But the players were surely not brainwashed into the tactics of Alex McLeish so is the fix purely to change the players?
Maybe it is, but the common fact is that, whether it be McLeish's time, MON's departure, the Houllier year, off the pitch troubles, whatever the cause of where we were last season, it doesn't mattter, the important thing is that we were desperately poor, and it'll take time to stop the momentum behind the club taking us down.
Some people think there's an easy option - you just sack the manager as we enter the crucial January transfer window, and there's automatically someone who is
- better
- available
- happy to come here
and they'll join immediately (and install their entire back room staff), have a thorough overview of our squad, and a predetermined set of transfer targets to allow them to hit the ground running.
It is utter bollocks, it just doesn't happen like that, and some of us need to get over our anger at the last few games and realise that it is actually quite easy to do the "obvious" thing out of anger and make us much worse as a result.
Tend to agree.
I get Risso's anger. 100%
And Lambert is far from blameless in all this.
But -as dire as we've been all season- if we repeat the sequence of results we've managed in the first half of the campaign, we *should* be safe.
Forget all talk (for the moment) of long term plans and style of football. It ultimately comes down to whether you think Lambert needs to be potted to keep us up.
I don't. Not yet.
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Extend Lambert's contract now.Bit of positivity ,eh ? Last year,Lambert was the manager who changed his formations and tactics the most in the PL to combat the opposition.His faith in the squad has been misplaced,injuries not helping,and now he has a transfer window to address the problems or,at least ,some of the problems.
And yet his tactics lately have been appalling.
Not always they haven't sometimes they've been right. Almost from day one you were picking on his post-match comments of 'we'll go again', etc.. To tell you the truth I just can't face being angry with another manager. Houllier, Lambert and even TSM are not the worst managers in the world but we've been struggling for the last two and a half years. There is something deeper going on, we have to back the manager and if things don't improve its time to vent our anger elsewhere, i.e. Randy and co.
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If Southampton get a 0-0 draw or better from their game in hand, then we'll be in the bottom three, so I'm not sure how it works out that we'd stay up if the results thus far were repeated. The worrying thing is that clubs around us seem to be playing better than us at the moment.
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Playing better than us and still not far out of our reach above us. There are also 3 teams below us. Never mind Southampton's game in hand they're in the bottom 3 for a reason and that is that they probably wil get nothing out of that game.
Anyway, it's not pretty just now but 3games, 15-0, and we're not cut adrift and in a hopeless position. It will get better if only because it cannot get much worse. But a few points here and there in the next month and we'll be back up a place to two fighting with the rest of the dross to stay up. It's not pretty but it certainly isn't hopeless.
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Playing better than us and still not far out of our reach above us. There are also 3 teams below us. Never mind Southampton's game in hand they're in the bottom 3 for a reason and that is that they probably wil get nothing out of that game.
Anyway, it's not pretty just now but 3games, 15-0, and we're not cut adrift and in a hopeless position. It will get better if only because it cannot get much worse. But a few points here and there in the next month and we'll be back up a place to two fighting with the rest of the dross to stay up. It's not pretty but it certainly isn't hopeless.
I think west ham could still slip into trouble as well, they seem to be hitting a bad spell.
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Maths was never my strong point, but after 19 games we had 18 points.
If -after another 18 games we have a further 18 points- we should be safe on 36.
Admittedly, that's banking on the the shiteness of others. But it also ignores the possibility that we *might* improve over the next half of the season, depending on the business we do in this window.
In which case, 36 points would be a conservative guesstimate.
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If Southampton get a 0-0 draw or better from their game in hand, then we'll be in the bottom three, so I'm not sure how it works out that we'd stay up if the results thus far were repeated. The worrying thing is that clubs around us seem to be playing better than us at the moment.
They'll get smashed all over the place in their game in hand.
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Maths was never my strong point, but after 19 games we had 18 points.
If -after another 18 games we have a further 18 points- we should be safe on 36.
Admittedly, that's banking on the the shiteness of others. But it also ignores the possibility that we *might* improve over the next half of the season, depending on the business we do in this window.
In which case, 36 points would be a conservative guesstimate.
It's not hugely positive though is it?
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
This is an excellent piece and a refreshing, objective antidote to the 'keep the faith', 'We'll never go down' complacency that is too prevalent on here.
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Maths was never my strong point, but after 19 games we had 18 points.
If -after another 18 games we have a further 18 points- we should be safe on 36.
Admittedly, that's banking on the the shiteness of others. But it also ignores the possibility that we *might* improve over the next half of the season, depending on the business we do in this window.
In which case, 36 points would be a conservative guesstimate.
It's not hugely positive though is it?
Fuck no.
But in a season where we've recorded our record defeat and our worst start to the campaign since Steve Sims was in (even shorter) trousers, we have the possibility of a LC final.
Who knows, if Swansea do the business over two legs (or Roman's lot get struck down with food poisoning) we might even win the thing.
We're not completely hopeless, despite some abysmal results recently.
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
This is an excellent piece and a refreshing, objective antidote to the 'keep the faith', 'We'll never go down' complacency that is too prevalent on here.
A good piece
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Maths was never my strong point, but after 19 games we had 18 points.
If -after another 18 games we have a further 18 points- we should be safe on 36.
Admittedly, that's banking on the the shiteness of others. But it also ignores the possibility that we *might* improve over the next half of the season, depending on the business we do in this window.
In which case, 36 points would be a conservative guesstimate.
It's not hugely positive though is it?
You've still not provided a credible alternative to lambert though. Sacking him would only be half a potential solution.
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
This is an excellent piece and a refreshing, objective antidote to the 'keep the faith', 'We'll never go down' complacency that is too prevalent on here.
It is not complacency, it is belief in our team and our manager. Thank fuck some of us still have it.
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
This is an excellent piece and a refreshing, objective antidote to the 'keep the faith', 'We'll never go down' complacency that is too prevalent on here.
It is not complacency, it is belief in our team and our manager. Thank fuck some of us still have it.
I am with dan. We can all read a league table, for fuck's sake.
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
This is an excellent piece and a refreshing, objective antidote to the 'keep the faith', 'We'll never go down' complacency that is too prevalent on here.
It is not complacency, it is belief in our team and our manager. Thank fuck some of us still have it.
I am with dan. We can all read a league table, for fuck's sake.
I'm finding a surprising number of Villa fans feeling the same way. It's good to see.
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According to the Graun, Lambert has accepted that he has to sign players with Prem experience: click (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/30/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-report)
This is an excellent piece and a refreshing, objective antidote to the 'keep the faith', 'We'll never go down' complacency that is too prevalent on here.
It is not complacency, it is belief in our team and our manager. Thank fuck some of us still have it.
Amen to that Dan.
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We shall not be moved.
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Looks to me like Randy has gone from one extreme to the other, swapping total financial profligacy for a shoestring approach, when the reality is that if you want mid-table security, you have to aim somewhere in between. He doesn't need to start writing 8 digit cheques, he just needs to be more flexible. And given his previous form with the Bent signing, I'd say he will react appropriately in January.
I maintain that the injuries are what's really killing us, and that we only need a couple of experienced battlers - one in midfield, one at the back - and we'd immediately start looking much more solid. We absolutely have to stay up, because this young team will definitely improve.
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Looks to me like Randy has gone from one extreme to the other, swapping total financial profligacy for a shoestring approach, when the reality is that if you want mid-table security, you have to aim somewhere in between. He doesn't need to start writing 8 digit cheques, he just needs to be more flexible. And given his previous form with the Bent signing, I'd say he will react appropriately in January.
I maintain that the injuries are what's really killing us, and that we only need a couple of experienced battlers - one in midfield, one at the back - and we'd immediately start looking much more solid. We absolutely have to stay up, because this young team will definitely improve.
I tend to agree with this about Lerners extremes.
I think it adds to the argument that he really does not appear to be a very good business man.
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Looks to me like Randy has gone from one extreme to the other, swapping total financial profligacy for a shoestring approach, when the reality is that if you want mid-table security, you have to aim somewhere in between. He doesn't need to start writing 8 digit cheques, he just needs to be more flexible. And given his previous form with the Bent signing, I'd say he will react appropriately in January.
I maintain that the injuries are what's really killing us, and that we only need a couple of experienced battlers - one in midfield, one at the back - and we'd immediately start looking much more solid. We absolutely have to stay up, because this young team will definitely improve.
I'd genuinely like to know what Paul Falkner's job description is.
There's a fairly consistent view on here that Randy runs the finances at the Villa and that over or under-spending is his fault. I struggle with this.
In any other business the Chief Executive makes strategic decisions such as setting the direction of the business and allocating budgets accordingly. In my mind that would include our transfer strategy. The Chairman's role is to provide a bit of balance to a Chief Exec to stop him making silly decisions before it's too late. Spurs are a classic example of this. Daniel Levy runs the place but I don't think he has a particularly large ownership stake. I'd say from the outside the Spurs model seems to be just about perfect when it comes to football financing.
The Villa is probably going to be different because it's Randy's personal wealth at stake whereas in other businesses the Chairman wouldn't own the company (and Spurs are a listed company too so the Chairman wouldn't own it 100% like Randy does the Villa). But it does interest me to understand what Faulkner actually does. If this is how things work then Randy's only direct responsibility is in appointing the right Chief Exec. Strategy or budgetary concerns should be directed at Faulkner.
Comparisons to HDE don't work as he never appointed a Chief Exec so he really did make all the decisions.
Edit: Just checked and Levy is described as Executive Chairman at Spurs but I don't think they have a Chief Exec and he doesn't own the club so to all intents and purposes he's working as a Chief Exec.
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I don't think we should sack him because it won't actually help at this point, but I do think his buying policy has been exposed and the mess we are in is down to nothing more or less than not having good enough players. It was a ridiculous time to embark on a highly speculative experiment when we were lucky to have stayed up. We needed solid, proven experienced players to steady the ship and allow the exciting raw talent to be brought in over time. If half your cheap lower league transfers don't work but the other half do you're still quids in, if you've got enough depth in the squad. If you buy a job lot and chuck them all in its a massive gamble. I do accept the injuries have exacerbated the problem, but that is a fact of football and Lambert should have factored that in. Now would be a ridiculous time to sack him and if we stay up I just hope he learns from this and it becomes an early aberration in a brilliant career. And I think it might be.
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When a team is doing shit in January, there is only one scenario in which changing the manager usually works, and that's when the current manager has a good squad but isn't getting good performances out of them. Whereas we currently have a young, decidedly modest squad and a load of injuries to senior players. I don't think any new manager would be able to do any better.
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I don't think we should sack him because it won't actually help at this point, but I do think his buying policy has been exposed and the mess we are in is down to nothing more or less than not having good enough players. It was a ridiculous time to embark on a highly speculative experiment when we were lucky to have stayed up. We needed solid, proven experienced players to steady the ship and allow the exciting raw talent to be brought in over time. If half your cheap lower league transfers don't work but the other half do you're still quids in, if you've got enough depth in the squad. If you buy a job lot and chuck them all in its a massive gamble. I do accept the injuries have exacerbated the problem, but that is a fact of football and Lambert should have factored that in. Now would be a ridiculous time to sack him and if we stay up I just hope he learns from this and it becomes an early aberration in a brilliant career. And I think it might be.
How I feel Mike , good post
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The best tweet ever.
@ghartless: FA cup this weekend. Ideal chance for #avfc to experiment with some of the senior players.
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At least we've stopped the rot, we need to sign a spine to the side before the end of January. A lot of the kids are not good enough.
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Couple of rare tweets from mysteryman this afternoon , make of It what you wish-
@AvfcMysteryman: Paul Lambert on thin ice and Randy is ready with the salt #AVFC
@AvfcMysteryman: Randy's eyes are looking towards Switzerland for the next #AVFC manager
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Couple of rare tweets from mysteryman this afternoon , make of It what you wish-
@AvfcMysteryman: Paul Lambert on thin ice and Randy is ready with the salt #AVFC
@AvfcMysteryman: Randy's eyes are looking towards Switzerland for the next #AVFC manager
That's not the bloke who posts on VT.
That's some teenager on his dad's laptop playing big shot.
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Couple of rare tweets from mysteryman this afternoon , make of It what you wish-
@AvfcMysteryman: Paul Lambert on thin ice and Randy is ready with the salt #AVFC
@AvfcMysteryman: Randy's eyes are looking towards Switzerland for the next #AVFC manager
That's not the bloke who posts on VT.
That's some teenager on his dad's laptop playing big shot.
If you check out his previous tweets he has been fairly accurate and rarely tweets.
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Couple of rare tweets from mysteryman this afternoon , make of It what you wish-
@AvfcMysteryman: Paul Lambert on thin ice and Randy is ready with the salt #AVFC
@AvfcMysteryman: Randy's eyes are looking towards Switzerland for the next #AVFC manager
That's not the bloke who posts on VT.
That's some teenager on his dad's laptop playing big shot.
If you check out his previous tweets he has been fairly accurate and rarely tweets.
Fairly accurate? Is that like being a little pregnant?
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Couple of rare tweets from mysteryman this afternoon , make of It what you wish-
@AvfcMysteryman: Paul Lambert on thin ice and Randy is ready with the salt #AVFC
@AvfcMysteryman: Randy's eyes are looking towards Switzerland for the next #AVFC manager
That's not the bloke who posts on VT.
That's some teenager on his dad's laptop playing big shot.
If you check out his previous tweets he has been fairly accurate and rarely tweets.
Eastie, I've just looked, and that bloke makes your hero Jim White look accurate. Utter nonsense
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I know everyone hates better fan than you threads but can we get rid of this thread it is verging on insanity. I dont know one fan who goes down to the games who wouldnt stick with Lambert even if the unimaginable happens and we go down. As a club we need continuity now more than ever.
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Couple of rare tweets from mysteryman this afternoon , make of It what you wish-
@AvfcMysteryman: Paul Lambert on thin ice and Randy is ready with the salt #AVFC
@AvfcMysteryman: Randy's eyes are looking towards Switzerland for the next #AVFC manager
That's not the bloke who posts on VT.
That's some teenager on his dad's laptop playing big shot.
If you check out his previous tweets he has been fairly accurate and rarely tweets.
Eastie, I've just looked, and that bloke makes your hero Jim White look accurate. Utter nonsense
Paulie go back 6 months to his tweets, frighteningly detailed and accurate, long before lambert came , also dc5 believes this man is very much the real thing
Anyway as I say , make of it what you will, I was alerted to him by dc5 - if you believe or don't believe it's no skin off my nose either way.
Doesn't mean I believe it either, what goes on behind the scenes at villa is something none of us really know..
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Couple of rare tweets from mysteryman this afternoon , make of It what you wish-
@AvfcMysteryman: Paul Lambert on thin ice and Randy is ready with the salt #AVFC
@AvfcMysteryman: Randy's eyes are looking towards Switzerland for the next #AVFC manager
That's not the bloke who posts on VT.
That's some teenager on his dad's laptop playing big shot.
If you check out his previous tweets he has been fairly accurate and rarely tweets.
Eastie, I've just looked, and that bloke makes your hero Jim White look accurate. Utter nonsense
Paulie go back 6 months to his tweets, frighteningly detailed and accurate, long before lambert came , also dc5 believes this man is very much the real thing .
He predicted the appointment of Lambert once OGS had opted not to move.
Really, you didn't have to be Nostradamus to spot that one.
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I know everyone hates better fan than you threads but can we get rid of this thread it is verging on insanity. I dont know one fan who goes down to the games who wouldnt stick with Lambert even if the unimaginable happens and we go down. As a club we need continuity now more than ever.
I agree entirely, it would be nuts.
Not everyone agrees, though, hence the existence of this thread.
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Couple of rare tweets from mysteryman this afternoon , make of It what you wish-
@AvfcMysteryman: Paul Lambert on thin ice and Randy is ready with the salt #AVFC
@AvfcMysteryman: Randy's eyes are looking towards Switzerland for the next #AVFC manager
That's not the bloke who posts on VT.
That's some teenager on his dad's laptop playing big shot.
If you check out his previous tweets he has been fairly accurate and rarely tweets.
It appears he only tweets during the school holidays.
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Getting rid would be pointless.
Let's judge him after (I hope) he's given serious funds in this window.
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He isn't. I know exactly who MysteryMan is and it is not the above.
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Getting rid would be pointless.
Let's judge him after (I hope) he's given serious funds in this window.
Indeed.
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He isn't. I know exactly who MysteryMan is and it is not the above.
Careful legion, don't give mr woodhalls secret away!
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We need (at the very least) a CB, a left back and a defensive midfielder.
If he brings them in and we're still making a balls of things defensively, I might waver.
But for now, he should be backed. There has been enough promise shown this season to indicate he's not a complete travesty of a manager.
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Getting rid would be pointless.
Let's judge him after (I hope) he's given serious funds in this window.
Indeed.
It will take more than just two windows just like it's taken Moyes, with a comparable financial situation to mould a squad with the types of players he wants. Moyes has made a number of mistakes as will Lambert, but in time he'll have players in place who are solid throughout. We simply have to be patient as painful as it might be at times.
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We need (at the very least) a CB, a left back and a defensive midfielder.
If he brings them in and we're still making a balls of things defensively, I might waver.
But for now, he should be backed. Their has been enough promise shown this season to indicate he's not a complete travesty of a manager.
I think we need a central defender on loan, two midfielders with experience and creativity and a striker who can play out wide.
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If MysteryMan mean Otter he too old.File under Bullshit.
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Getting rid would be pointless.
Let's judge him after (I hope) he's given serious funds in this window.
Indeed.
It will take more than just two windows just like it's taken Moyes, with a comparable financial situation to mould a squad with the types of players he wants. Moyes has made a number of mistakes as will Lambert, but in time he'll have players in place who are solid throughout. We simply have to be patient as painful as it might be at times.
I'd agree with that.
I would say, though, that when we talk of him having another window, we're talking about judging him against a very low bar - keep us in the league.
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It's not 'Mysteryman'. Not the real one, anyway.
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Getting rid would be pointless.
Let's judge him after (I hope) he's given serious funds in this window.
Indeed.
It will take more than just two windows just like it's taken Moyes, with a comparable financial situation to mould a squad with the types of players he wants. Moyes has made a number of mistakes as will Lambert, but in time he'll have players in place who are solid throughout. We simply have to be patient as painful as it might be at times.
I agree TV that it takes longer, but we would at least see some sort of progress.
Get to safety with the aid of 3 or 4 new players and then regroup for the Summer.
Work out who we want out and who we need to recruit.
EDIT what Paulie has just said above.
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Getting rid would be pointless.
Let's judge him after (I hope) he's given serious funds in this window.
Indeed.
It will take more than just two windows just like it's taken Moyes, with a comparable financial situation to mould a squad with the types of players he wants. Moyes has made a number of mistakes as will Lambert, but in time he'll have players in place who are solid throughout. We simply have to be patient as painful as it might be at times.
I agree TV that it takes longer, but we would at least see some sort of progress.
Get to safety with the aid of 3 or 4 new players and then regroup for the Summer.
Work out who we want out and who we need to recruit.
That's it, I'm not expecting us to be perfect but I want us well clear of relegation so we can access the squad properly.
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Early days, but in the Summer i'd be looking to get replacements for
Bannan, Delph, Ireland, KEA, Lichaj and possibly Holman.
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Early days, but in the Summer i'd be looking to get replacements for
Bannan, Delph, Ireland, KEA, Lichaj and possibly Holman.
I reckon, come the end of the season, we'll have a much better idea how many of these kids are good enough. At that point, we have to move them on, and stop kidding ourselves that they're all going to make the mark, because they won't.
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Getting rid would be pointless.
Let's judge him after (I hope) he's given serious funds in this window.
Indeed.
It will take more than just two windows just like it's taken Moyes, with a comparable financial situation to mould a squad with the types of players he wants. Moyes has made a number of mistakes as will Lambert, but in time he'll have players in place who are solid throughout. We simply have to be patient as painful as it might be at times.
I agree TV that it takes longer, but we would at least see some sort of progress.
Get to safety with the aid of 3 or 4 new players and then regroup for the Summer.
Work out who we want out and who we need to recruit.
EDIT what Paulie has just said above.
What it will also do is allow kids to come through into a more stable situation, where the majority of first team squad overall is a lot more mature and experienced. It also means those players that do break through are that much better because they simply have to be to be a part of it. Right now, players that aren't good enough, or simply aren't ready are being thrown in often very much to their detriment.
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Early days, but in the Summer i'd be looking to get replacements for
Bannan, Delph, Ireland, KEA, Lichaj and possibly Holman.
Agreed and worryingly 5 are midfielders. I would add albrighton to that list too.
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Early days, but in the Summer i'd be looking to get replacements for
Bannan, Delph, Ireland, KEA, Lichaj and possibly Holman.
No, maybe, yes, too early, yes and maybe. Fundamentally, we need to give ourselves more options more than we need replacements. Our squad is still a bit on the thin side.
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I think one the biggest disappointments has been KEA, I really thought he'd be better.
Seemed promising at first but faded badly.
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I think one the biggest disappointments has been KEA, I really thought he'd be better.
Seemed promising at first but faded badly.
Me too.
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I think one the biggest disappointments has been KEA, I really thought he'd be better.
Seemed promising at first but faded badly.
Totally agree.
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Wonder whether the Swansea game will have any bearing on whether money will be spent in the window and how much?
Weirdly may have been better to get another tonking if it rammed home just how much strengthening we needed...
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Early days, but in the Summer i'd be looking to get replacements for
Bannan, Delph, Ireland, KEA, Lichaj and possibly Holman.
What about albrighton?
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Wonder whether the Swansea game will have any bearing on whether money will be spent in the window and how much?
Weirdly may have been better to get another tonking if it rammed home just how much strengthening we needed...
I think a 17-2 aggregate rams the point home enough, to be fair.
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Early days, but in the Summer i'd be looking to get replacements for
Bannan, Delph, Ireland, KEA, Lichaj and possibly Holman.
What about albrighton?
Good point, forgot about him.
What's happened with him anyway, his touch is awful.
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Wonder whether the Swansea game will have any bearing on whether money will be spent in the window and how much?
Weirdly may have been better to get another tonking if it rammed home just how much strengthening we needed...
Randy flew home yesterday afternoon so I guess any transfer policy will have been thrashed out and hopefully we may see movement soon in the market.
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Midfield is definitely the problem that needs sorting. I reckon it's what causes us so much problems at the back as well as it's constantly putting the defence under pressure.
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Midfield is definitely the problem that needs sorting. I reckon it's what causes us so much problems at the back as well as it's constantly putting the defence under pressure.
Exactly we neither provide protection for the defence or creativity for the forwards- the midfield area is a huge problem and needs at least two new additions.
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
I think 90 per cent to keep him says it all really...you are always going to get the odd cretin!
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Its clear that the majority of this forum want him to stay. However, still 22 people is more than expected!
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Early days, but in the Summer i'd be looking to get replacements for
Bannan, Delph, Ireland, KEA, Lichaj and possibly Holman.
I reckon, come the end of the season, we'll have a much better idea how many of these kids are good enough. At that point, we have to move them on, and stop kidding ourselves that they're all going to make the mark, because they won't.
I'm already there with some of them.
Baker and Bannan can, I think, be useful players for us long term. Maybe not first team fixtures, but good enough to always be in and around the starting XI. Clark, Delph and -much as it pains me to say it- Albrighton probably won't be.
It's been sink or swim for Clark, he's seen a lot of game time this season and looked no better for it. Probably worse, in fact. He should go on to have a decent career, but prob at a lower level. I do think he might some use to us as a defensive midfielder, he has a decent touch and good composure (sometimes). He just seems to get bullied far too much in one on one duels, you can't really have that kind of deficiency in a centre half.
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Wonder whether the Swansea game will have any bearing on whether money will be spent in the window and how much?
Weirdly may have been better to get another tonking if it rammed home just how much strengthening we needed...
Randy flew home yesterday afternoon so I guess any transfer policy will have been thrashed out and hopefully we may see movement soon in the market.
How are you going to last to the 31st without exploding?
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Is put Clark in the 'very inconsistent' category so far this season. Not the shit category (lichaj, herd, albrighton)
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Wonder whether the Swansea game will have any bearing on whether money will be spent in the window and how much?
Weirdly may have been better to get another tonking if it rammed home just how much strengthening we needed...
Randy flew home yesterday afternoon so I guess any transfer policy will have been thrashed out and hopefully we may see movement soon in the market.
How are you going to last to the 31st without exploding?
;D
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I think one the biggest disappointments has been KEA, I really thought he'd be better.
Seemed promising at first but faded badly.
Especially as the videos from Holland seemed to show someone who was NRC but with passing. Here he can't seem to tackle at all.
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I think one the biggest disappointments has been KEA, I really thought he'd be better.
Seemed promising at first but faded badly.
Especially as the videos from Holland seemed to show someone who was NRC but with passing. Here he can't seem to tackle at all.
Big step-up isn't it. Given time to settle he'll probably adapt. Just time is something we haven't got ATM.
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Wonder whether the Swansea game will have any bearing on whether money will be spent in the window and how much?
Weirdly may have been better to get another tonking if it rammed home just how much strengthening we needed...
Randy flew home yesterday afternoon so I guess any transfer policy will have been thrashed out and hopefully we may see movement soon in the market.
How am I going to last to the 31st without exploding?
I'm sure you will survive the excitement!
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I think one the biggest disappointments has been KEA, I really thought he'd be better.
Seemed promising at first but faded badly.
Especially as the videos from Holland seemed to show someone who was NRC but with passing. Here he can't seem to tackle at all.
Big step-up isn't it. Given time to settle he'll probably adapt. Just time is something we haven't got ATM.
Do you think so gnash, I haven't seen anything that makes me think kea will be make it in this league, he has been far too lightweight.
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IF he can keep us up this year I think he could go on to be a great villa manager
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I want him to stay but that doesn't mean i'm convinced he is a good manager... yet.
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I want him to stay but that doesn't mean i'm convinced he is a good manager... yet.
I'm in this category, I was concerned by this team selection today and in all honesty we could have been 3 or 4 down after 20mins, we showed great character to come back and this months transfer window will be crucial.
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I think one the biggest disappointments has been KEA, I really thought he'd be better.
Seemed promising at first but faded badly.
Especially as the videos from Holland seemed to show someone who was NRC but with passing. Here he can't seem to tackle at all.
Big step-up isn't it. Given time to settle he'll probably adapt. Just time is something we haven't got ATM.
Do you think so gnash, I haven't seen anything that makes me think kea will be make it in this league, he has been far too lightweight.
do you think eastie there has ever been a player that has taken 20 league games and a handful of cup games to settle and make a success of their career?
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I'm in this category, I was concerned by this team selection today and in all honesty we could have been 3 or 4 down after 20mins, we showed great character to come back and this months transfer window will be crucial.
With all the players out, who could he have picked in that team instead?
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I'm in this category, I was concerned by this team selection today and in all honesty we could have been 3 or 4 down after 20mins, we showed great character to come back and this months transfer window will be crucial.
With all the players out, who could he have picked in that team instead?
Bannan ahead of Stevens , I was concerned that too many were out of position and rather than Stevens and Bennett I would have only played one of those .
Also would like to see Carruthers rather than albrighton , but I'm sure we all have differing views on selection.
I would maybe have gone with Lowton and Clark as a pair with Bennett and lichaj as full backs rather than use herd .
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I think one the biggest disappointments has been KEA, I really thought he'd be better.
Seemed promising at first but faded badly.
Especially as the videos from Holland seemed to show someone who was NRC but with passing. Here he can't seem to tackle at all.
Big step-up isn't it. Given time to settle he'll probably adapt. Just time is something we haven't got ATM.
Do you think so gnash, I haven't seen anything that makes me think kea will be make it in this league, he has been far too lightweight.
do you think eastie there has ever been a player that has taken 20 league games and a handful of cup games to settle and make a success of their career?
Yes of course, but I've seen little to suggest that kea is going to be a success - I hope he is though.
There have been successes after poor starts but there have been many who find the difference in the premier league too big to adjust to .
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KEA looked okay early on, wasn't he our player of the month for Aug or Sept? Hopefully this is just a drop in form and he can improve.
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I trust Lambert's vision, but so far I'm unconvinced on his execution of it. I do think he's the right man though.
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
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I think one the biggest disappointments has been KEA, I really thought he'd be better.
Seemed promising at first but faded badly.
Especially as the videos from Holland seemed to show someone who was NRC but with passing. Here he can't seem to tackle at all.
Big step-up isn't it. Given time to settle he'll probably adapt. Just time is something we haven't got ATM.
Do you think so gnash, I haven't seen anything that makes me think kea will be make it in this league, he has been far too lightweight.
do you think eastie there has ever been a player that has taken 20 league games and a handful of cup games to settle and make a success of their career?
Yes of course, but I've seen little to suggest that kea is going to be a success - I hope he is though.
There have been successes after poor starts but there have been many who find the difference in the premier league too big to adjust to .
i got to stop reading your posts eastie, you drive me insane!
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
We've been shit for almost all of the season, and our defence is appalling and we hardly score any goals. Lambert's powers of organisation and motivation are clearly lacking. Why should we retain such an underperforming employee, and what exactly would we lose if we ditched him? How is that any new manager would be any worse?
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
We've been shit for almost all of the season, and our defence is appalling and we hardly score any goals. Lambert's powers of organisation and motivation are clearly lacking. Why should we retain such an underperforming employee, and what exactly would we lose if we ditched him? How is that any new manager would be any worse?
Because they'd be coming here from a standing start, no familiarity with the squad, they'd want their own backroom team - which would take time, as previous appointments suggest - and they'd have, by that point, a limited chunk of window, if any, to do any business.
I totally, totally understand your argument re us not being good enough - we can all see that from a cursory glance at the table - do you really not think we've all seen this ourselves?
The fact is, if you're going to satisfy your blood lust by sacking the manager, you need to be able to suggest a better option, and one that we could acquire, and quickly.
I've asked you about a dozen times on this thread for your suggestions and the best you came up with was "maybe we could talk to Roberto Di Matteo. Or someone like Roy Keane". I also saw you suggest in the match thread that having no manager at all would be better.
Don't get me wrong, I have agreed with you on plenty of subjects, and you're entitled to your opinion on this one, but you just get so angry, you lose all coherence on the subject.
Personally I have seen easily enough evidence so far to make me think there is something good about Lambert, and I can see that it is not going to be a quick fix for anybody coming in to the club when he did, and having to work with the clueless owner.
I appreciate you don't see that (although you seem to understand the bit about the clueless owner, which makes me wonder why you think the manager should be doing such a brilliant job anyway, but hey ho), but if you're going to give the manager the bullet, you need to have a better option, and one that is workable, feasible, and can be put into place practically overnight.
You were as much in favour of this appointment as the rest of us a few short months ago, so I just can not believe how quickly you've turned on him. It just makes me wonder whether you'd turn so quickly on anyone we were to replace him with.
Give the bloke a chance FFS.
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
We've been shit for almost all of the season, and our defence is appalling and we hardly score any goals. Lambert's powers of organisation and motivation are clearly lacking. Why should we retain such an underperforming employee, and what exactly would we lose if we ditched him? How is that any new manager would be any worse?
after i travelled to norwich and saw such a wonderful display and then when i went to liverpool a few days later, the phrase lambert out would have never ever have entered my mind. take yourself back 2 weeks and give me your honest thoughts riss.
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
We've been shit for almost all of the season, and our defence is appalling and we hardly score any goals. Lambert's powers of organisation and motivation are clearly lacking. Why should we retain such an underperforming employee, and what exactly would we lose if we ditched him? How is that any new manager would be any worse?
after i travelled to norwich and saw such a wonderful display and then when i went to liverpool a few days later, the phrase lambert out would have never ever have entered my mind. take yourself back 2 weeks and give me your honest thoughts riss.
Indeed, and I reckon if you looked back at that time, you'd find Risso entirely in agreement with you.
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
We've been shit for almost all of the season, and our defence is appalling and we hardly score any goals. Lambert's powers of organisation and motivation are clearly lacking. Why should we retain such an underperforming employee, and what exactly would we lose if we ditched him? How is that any new manager would be any worse?
We'd lose credibility for a start, we'd also lay down a marker that a manager at Villa Park gets half a season only to prove himself. Then there's the money to pay him off, recruit a replacement and fund his team building.
Any team would suffer with the number of injuries we've endured but there have been encouraging signs along the way, not least the cup run.
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
We've been shit for almost all of the season, and our defence is appalling and we hardly score any goals. Lambert's powers of organisation and motivation are clearly lacking. Why should we retain such an underperforming employee, and what exactly would we lose if we ditched him? How is that any new manager would be any worse?
after i travelled to norwich and saw such a wonderful display and then when i went to liverpool a few days later, the phrase lambert out would have never ever have entered my mind. take yourself back 2 weeks and give me your honest thoughts riss.
Every team wins a few games though Rutski. Even McLeish managed a couple of decent performances against Arsenal and Chelsea. Overall though this season has been dreadful from start to finish. Abysmal in defence and toothless up front. The last few games have been nothing short of shambolic.
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Today wasn't shambolic.
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Swansea at home?
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And nor was the game prior to the recent disastrous run of three.
Maybe, just maybe, we were seeing the frailties of a young side.
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Today wasn't shambolic.
Yes it was. The first half was like watching a group of five year olds chase a beach ball around the playground.
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
We've been shit for almost all of the season, and our defence is appalling and we hardly score any goals. Lambert's powers of organisation and motivation are clearly lacking. Why should we retain such an underperforming employee, and what exactly would we lose if we ditched him? How is that any new manager would be any worse?
We'd lose credibility for a start, we'd also lay down a marker that a manager at Villa Park gets half a season only to prove himself. Then there's the money to pay him off, recruit a replacement and fund his team building.
Credibility? We're the laughing stock of English football.
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Today wasn't shambolic.
Yes it was. The first half was like watching a group of five year olds chase a beach ball around the playground.
And the second?
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Today wasn't shambolic.
Yes it was. The first half was like watching a group of five year olds chase a beach ball around the playground.
Pretty amazing to come out of that with a point, then. Lambert must be a genius.
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Credibility? We're the laughing stock of English football.
Hyperbole is a wonderful thing. Of course we're not.
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
We've been shit for almost all of the season, and our defence is appalling and we hardly score any goals. Lambert's powers of organisation and motivation are clearly lacking. Why should we retain such an underperforming employee, and what exactly would we lose if we ditched him? How is that any new manager would be any worse?
We'd lose credibility for a start, we'd also lay down a marker that a manager at Villa Park gets half a season only to prove himself. Then there's the money to pay him off, recruit a replacement and fund his team building.
Credibility? We're the laughing stock of English football.
Says the man who wants Roy Keane as our manager.
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
We've been shit for almost all of the season, and our defence is appalling and we hardly score any goals. Lambert's powers of organisation and motivation are clearly lacking. Why should we retain such an underperforming employee, and what exactly would we lose if we ditched him? How is that any new manager would be any worse?
after i travelled to norwich and saw such a wonderful display and then when i went to liverpool a few days later, the phrase lambert out would have never ever have entered my mind. take yourself back 2 weeks and give me your honest thoughts riss.
Every team wins a few games though Rutski. Even McLeish managed a couple of decent performances against Arsenal and Chelsea. Overall though this season has been dreadful from start to finish. Abysmal in defence and toothless up front. The last few games have been nothing short of shambolic.
if you cannot see a formation of a team that is extremely promising and a style of play that will take us forward i have no more to say on the subject. 3 games ago we were very, very good. 3 games later we are very very shit.
i was discussing with ken mcnaught after the norwich game how pleased we were with the progression of the team, he was happy that every game they seemed to get a little better, which i believe in 100%. the chelsea defeat did more than jus lose 3 points, it set us back, however, with todays result and upand coming games against lower league opposition we can get back that lost confidence.
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SMA are the laughing stock of English football.Always have been,always will be.
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Who are SMA?
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The baby formula manufacturers?
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Who are SMA?
Smog Monster Athletic.
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Today wasn't shambolic.
Yes it was. The first half was like watching a group of five year olds chase a beach ball around the playground.
Pretty amazing to come out of that with a point, then. Lambert must be a genius.
The defending in the first half was absolutely appalling. It could have been 3 or 4 nil. Thank Christ we got a point, but if we continue to defend like that till the season ends we're going to be punished more times than we get away with it. No matter how many on here dress it up we've been absolutely dreadful this season. It needs to be sorted this month or we could easily go down this season.
Lambert has been shit so far, but I still wouldn't sack him as it would cause more damage short term. I want him properly backed this month with cash for established PL standard players on PL wages. Anymore raids on the lower leagues and that's where we'll be playing next season.
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
We've been shit for almost all of the season, and our defence is appalling and we hardly score any goals. Lambert's powers of organisation and motivation are clearly lacking. Why should we retain such an underperforming employee, and what exactly would we lose if we ditched him? How is that any new manager would be any worse?
We'd lose credibility for a start, we'd also lay down a marker that a manager at Villa Park gets half a season only to prove himself. Then there's the money to pay him off, recruit a replacement and fund his team building.
Credibility? We're the laughing stock of English football.
No we are not. As bad as things look sacking the manager will not improve things. We need to give a manager time to turn us around and this is the manager who can do it for us.
Who do you want to manage us instead?
How long will you give the new manager before you sack him too?
Sacking a succession of managers will not bring stability to the club, apart from Randy splashing the cash the one thing we need more than anything is stability.
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Today wasn't shambolic.
Yes it was. The first half was like watching a group of five year olds chase a beach ball around the playground.
Pretty amazing to come out of that with a point, then. Lambert must be a genius.
When we are good it just is luck. When we are bad it is Lambert/the gimp Faulkner and his devil master Randy who are all in it to screw us. Riss wants it both ways, and no manager or owner will ever be good enough.
I don't think Mourinho would have done that much better with only £20 million or so and the squad as it was in May.
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Plus a few wins. That would be nice.
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Whilst I don't agree with his view of Lambert (well not entirely) to be fair to Risso the first 30 to 35 minutes today was utterly shambolic and t was only poor finishing by Swansea/good fortune during that initial period that paved the way for the point to be gained. I think some credit is due to Lambert and the players for the way they put things right afterwards and almost won it.
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SMA are the laughing stock of English football.Always have been,always will be.
Iphones are shit.
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Today wasn't shambolic.
Yes it was. The first half was like watching a group of five year olds chase a beach ball around the playground.
Pretty amazing to come out of that with a point, then. Lambert must be a genius.
When we are good it just is luck. When we are bad it is Lambert/the gimp Faulkner and his devil master Randy who are all in it to screw us. Riss wants it both ways, and no manager or owner will ever be good enough.
I don't think Mourinho would have done that much better with only £20 million or so and the squad as it was in May.
We were not good today.
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I'm in this category, I was concerned by this team selection today and in all honesty we could have been 3 or 4 down after 20mins, we showed great character to come back and this months transfer window will be crucial.
With all the players out, who could he have picked in that team instead?
Bannan ahead of Stevens , I was concerned that too many were out of position and rather than Stevens and Bennett I would have only played one of those .
But I think Lambert was looking to nullify the attacking right of Angel Rangel and the winger (normally Dyer, although he didn't start today). Hence Bennett and Stevens.
Also would like to see Carruthers rather than albrighton , but I'm sure we all have differing views on selection.
Agreed, but he hasn't favoured Carruthers all season despite the fans' view that Carruthers is worth a run in the team.
I would maybe have gone with Lowton and Clark as a pair with Bennett and lichaj as full backs rather than use herd .
I'd agree with this although Lichaj was particularly crap against Wigwam.
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SMA are the laughing stock of English football.Always have been,always will be.
Iphones are shit.
SHA?
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
We've been shit for almost all of the season, and our defence is appalling and we hardly score any goals. Lambert's powers of organisation and motivation are clearly lacking. Why should we retain such an underperforming employee, and what exactly would we lose if we ditched him? How is that any new manager would be any worse?
We'd lose credibility for a start, we'd also lay down a marker that a manager at Villa Park gets half a season only to prove himself. Then there's the money to pay him off, recruit a replacement and fund his team building.
Credibility? We're the laughing stock of English football.
Says the man who wants Roy Keane as our manager.
It was actually just a suggestion of somebody who might organise the team a bit and motivate the players. Something that Lambert has singularly failed to do.
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
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I'm in this category, I was concerned by this team selection today and in all honesty we could have been 3 or 4 down after 20mins, we showed great character to come back and this months transfer window will be crucial.
With all the players out, who could he have picked in that team instead?
Bannan ahead of Stevens , I was concerned that too many were out of position and rather than Stevens and Bennett I would have only played one of those .
But I think Lambert was looking to nullify the attacking right of Angel Rangel and the winger (normally Dyer, although he didn't start today). Hence Bennett and Stevens.
Also would like to see Carruthers rather than albrighton , but I'm sure we all have differing views on selection.
Agreed, but he hasn't favoured Carruthers all season despite the fans' view that Carruthers is worth a run in the team.
I would maybe have gone with Lowton and Clark as a pair with Bennett and lichaj as full backs rather than use herd .
I'd agree with this although Lichaj was particularly crap against Wigwam.
Lambert does not favour Carruthers due to his Billy-Big-Bollocks attitude. I, on the other hand, think he is the next best thing.
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It was actually just a suggestion of somebody who might organise the team a bit and motivate the players. Something that Lambert has singularly failed to do.
So who, then, would you bring in as manager?
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Today wasn't shambolic.
Yes it was. The first half was like watching a group of five year olds chase a beach ball around the playground.
Pretty amazing to come out of that with a point, then. Lambert must be a genius.
When we are good it just is luck. When we are bad it is Lambert/the gimp Faulkner and his devil master Randy who are all in it to screw us. Riss wants it both ways, and no manager or owner will ever be good enough.
I don't think Mourinho would have done that much better with only £20 million or so and the squad as it was in May.
We were not good today.
Not at all?
I thought Weimann's finishing was fantastic.
I thought Benteke refound some form after three poor games.
I thought Westwood looked good for most of the game.
I continue to like Guzan's progress as a top-level keeper.
I thought the discipline and organisation of the second half was excellent, in contrast to the first.
I liked the fact that the four first-half bookings did not develop into a 2 yelloes = a red (which in Delph's case could well have been a reality).
There were some aspects of today's game that were positive - but I suppose seeing them is an attitudinal challenge for some.
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The only thing Roy Keane is good at is looking after Roy Keane. He's had his chances as a football manager and he's been sussed. As a player he was brilliant. As a manager, aside from a couple of decent seasons at Sunderland he's been shit. He needs to be filed along with Robson, Bruce, Ince Hughes etc as ex-Man U who are utterly overrated shit managers.
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As a player, he was a thug.
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
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It was actually just a suggestion of somebody who might organise the team a bit and motivate the players. Something that Lambert has singularly failed to do.
So who, then, would you bring in as manager?
Who is available and who would take the current squad plus any additions they can get in within the next 30 days and suddenly make us world beaters? Because it appears that nothing else will do for you.
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The only thing Roy Keane is good at is looking after Roy Keane. He's had his chances as a football manager and he's been sussed. As a player he was brilliant. As a manager, aside from a couple of decent seasons at Sunderland he's been shit. He needs to be filed along with Robson, Bruce, Ince Hughes etc as ex-Man U who are utterly overrated shit managers.
Succinctly and accurately put, as is Legion's comment re thug.
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
We've been shit for almost all of the season, and our defence is appalling and we hardly score any goals. Lambert's powers of organisation and motivation are clearly lacking. Why should we retain such an underperforming employee, and what exactly would we lose if we ditched him? How is that any new manager would be any worse?
We'd lose credibility for a start, we'd also lay down a marker that a manager at Villa Park gets half a season only to prove himself. Then there's the money to pay him off, recruit a replacement and fund his team building.
Credibility? We're the laughing stock of English football.
No, we're not.
We're inconsistent for sure, but there have been decent performances mixed in with the rubbish and the indifferent. That's only to be expected when you consider the rebuilding job he's been forced into and the injuries we've had to contend with.
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
Well, except that at Chelsea the score in the second half should have been more than 5!
As I said to someone else's post earlier, we could and should have beaten Arse and Stoke at VP; we didn't. In the same way, Swansea lost out today.
There are no points for unconverted chances (thank God).
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Who would we get in to replace him? He hasn't had time to unpack I can't belive 22 people want him sacked!
Quite.
And not one of them has managed to suggest a reasonable replacement, let alone how we'd get said replacement and his backroom team in in time to do something this transfer window.
Everyone is disappointed, everyone is angry at the way things are going. It's as if they don't think we've noticed we've been shit for a big chunk of the season thus far.
We've been shit for almost all of the season, and our defence is appalling and we hardly score any goals. Lambert's powers of organisation and motivation are clearly lacking. Why should we retain such an underperforming employee, and what exactly would we lose if we ditched him? How is that any new manager would be any worse?
We'd lose credibility for a start, we'd also lay down a marker that a manager at Villa Park gets half a season only to prove himself. Then there's the money to pay him off, recruit a replacement and fund his team building.
Credibility? We're the laughing stock of English football.
Says the man who wants Roy Keane as our manager.
It was actually just a suggestion of somebody who might organise the team a bit and motivate the players. Something that Lambert has singularly failed to do.
It was actually just a suggestion of somebody who might organise the team a bit and motivate the players. Something that Lambert has singularly failed to do.
Keane organised and motivated his last team so well that they won 28 out of 81 matches, a lower percentage of wins than Lambert so far at Villa.
Edit: To be fair that is only including matches up to Dec 15 so the percentage is probably about the same now or very slightly higher.
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Couple of rare tweets from mysteryman this afternoon , make of It what you wish-
@AvfcMysteryman: Paul Lambert on thin ice and Randy is ready with the salt #AVFC
@AvfcMysteryman: Randy's eyes are looking towards Switzerland for the next #AVFC manager
That's not the bloke who posts on VT.
That's some teenager on his dad's laptop playing big shot.
If you check out his previous tweets he has been fairly accurate and rarely tweets.
Eastie, I've just looked, and that bloke makes your hero Jim White look accurate. Utter nonsense
Paulie go back 6 months to his tweets, frighteningly detailed and accurate, long before lambert came , also dc5 believes this man is very much the real thing
Anyway as I say , make of it what you will, I was alerted to him by dc5 - if you believe or don't believe it's no skin off my nose either way.
Doesn't mean I believe it either, what goes on behind the scenes at villa is something none of us really know..
DC5 merely said in his PRIVATE message to Eastie that the 'whisper' he had on the 30th Dec was from mystery man on Twitter.
I know who the 'real' mystery man is and couldn't care less if it isn't the one on Twitter or not. I have only ever spoken to the 'real' mystery man once and to none of the other 'unreal' mystery men, as far as I know.
Most of the Twitter rumours are wind ups. Anyone giving confidential info soon clams up if it gets blabbed on Twitter, apart from the 'feelers' that deliberately go out and appear, even on here, occasionally.
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
we have had a centre midfielder playing at centre back for the last 8 games with baker playing in a massively makeshift defence.
missing vlaar, dunne and now baker would be a kick in the bollock for any team, look at olbeyun without olsen today, all over the shop
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As a player, he was a thug.
Yep, he most certainly was but not in the Lee Cattermole or Karl Henry sense. He lost his mind at times, but when on he was quite inspirational. We could do with a bit of that right about now for our kids to lean on.
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
As I said above, we could and should have beaten Arse and Stoke at VP; we didn't. In the same way, Swansea lost out today.
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We had 1 fit central defender today, who is arguably the worst of the 4 we have at the club as he is the least dominant. It is not really a shock we are shit at the back, and have been since Baker went off against Spurs. The Chelsea result was woeful, but was a perfect storm for them and a total shambles from us.
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Today wasn't shambolic.
Yes it was. The first half was like watching a group of five year olds chase a beach ball around the playground.
It was a sign of a young team utterly devoid of self-belief after a series of crushing defeats, that's all.
You could see by the way we fought in the second-half what Weimann's goal did for their mind-set.
hopefully they'll take the positives from that, and forget the last minute goal, into the cup games. Win both of those and you know, we might just see a different Villa.
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
Unlike against Chelsea, we now have one fit centre half. Yes, he isn't off scott free but with the current resources what hope do we have off holding off a team with the top scorer before the match and one that has been 6 years playing this style of possession football. This a culmination of 3 years of stagnation and not replacing like for like. We had one player on the pitch over 23 today and that was the keeper. We need at least 4 in this month now, just to match injuries in the last few weeks, let alone improve the team massively.
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
I'm not burying anything, anywhere. It's getting a bit tedious to read that whenever we lose we're bad yet when we don't lose we're 'lucky'.
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I am still waiting to find out who is a viable replacement for our current manager.
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
I'm not burying anything, anywhere. It's getting a bit tedious to read that whenever we lose we're bad yet when we don't lose we're 'lucky'.
So what's the reason we've been so appalling this season, Dave, bad luck?
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Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
Despite being the worst side in the division, the worst Villa side ever, and a national laughing stock we're still not in the bottom 3 and are 1 tie away from a cup final.
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Were we really that bad again today ?
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AVFCMysteryman is a bluenose. Used to wind everyone up when Moyes was linked before McLeish came in. He then changed his logo to a blues badge and tool the piss. Went quiet and is now back.
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Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
Despite being the worst side in the division, the worst Villa side ever, and a national laughing stock we're still not in the bottom 3 and are 1 tie away from a cup final.
Great. Can't wait for the semi final, but I'd swap it now for PL safety. It's our bread and butter.
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Were we really that bad again today ?
anyone watch european champions league candidates olbeyun today? how good were they. we needed to stop the rot, steady the ship show some bollox and we did it!
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
I'm not burying anything, anywhere. It's getting a bit tedious to read that whenever we lose we're bad yet when we don't lose we're 'lucky'.
So what's the reason we've been so appalling this season, Dave, bad luck?
We've not been good enough - nobody's said any different and that's not what I was talking about so why change the subject?
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
I'm not burying anything, anywhere. It's getting a bit tedious to read that whenever we lose we're bad yet when we don't lose we're 'lucky'.
So what's the reason we've been so appalling this season, Dave, bad luck?
How about a few years of piss poor management by the owner and his staff?
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It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
What is amazing is how we can spend so much money over five or six years and still end up worse off than Swansea.
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Were we really that bad again today ?
For a large part of the first half.
We rode our luck massively but got stuck in later on.
We have finally reached January. Do we want to waste at least a week of the transfer window by sacking the manager? Bringing in the best manager in the world will make no difference to a wafer thin, inexperienced, injury riddled squad.
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It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
What is amazing is how we can spend so much money over five or six years and still end up worse off than Swansea.
Your point being?
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Nonsense thread. It amazes me how some football fans speak without thinking.
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It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
What is amazing is how we can spend so much money over five or six years and still end up worse off than Swansea.
Your point being?
Just as it says.
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Can we change the name of this thread to Lambert in? As only 23 people think he should be sacked....
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
I'm not burying anything, anywhere. It's getting a bit tedious to read that whenever we lose we're bad yet when we don't lose we're 'lucky'.
So what's the reason we've been so appalling this season, Dave, bad luck?
How about a few years of piss poor management by the owner and his staff?
Absolutely, I agree. Lambert still should take his portion of the blame though. By the way, I'm not calling for his head. I want to see him properly backed in the transfer market. I'm just surprised that some fans on here are surprised they're are people calling for his head. Managers' have been sacked for a lot less.
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Slight modification made to the thread title. Hope that's OK with you, Martin.
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It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
What is amazing is how we can spend so much money over five or six years and still end up worse off than Swansea.
Your point being?
Just as it says.
i think all villa fans will agree that we have underachieved, your comparison could be attributed to liverpool with the likes of olbeyun, swansea, everton, arsenal et al who are ahead of them in the league. lambert has shown great signs of doing good things with villa.
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
I'm not burying anything, anywhere. It's getting a bit tedious to read that whenever we lose we're bad yet when we don't lose we're 'lucky'.
So what's the reason we've been so appalling this season, Dave, bad luck?
We've not been good enough - nobody's said any different and that's not what I was talking about so why change the subject?
We were lucky not to go in at halftime by at least 3 goals down, that's what I mean.
And what's all this nonsense about "changing the subject"? Grow up.
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It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
What is amazing is how we can spend so much money over five or six years and still end up worse off than Swansea.
Haven't we taken four points off them this season?
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Were we really that bad again today ?
For a large part of the first half.
We rode our luck massively but got stuck in later on.
We have finally reached January. Do we want to waste at least a week of the transfer window by sacking the manager? Bringing in the best manager in the world will make no difference to a wafer thin, inexperienced, injury riddled squad.
Agree fully, this is not a time to change manager and totally confuse the squad. It's about sticking together now. What was the Swansea ground like ? Good pubs , parking etc ? I hear they were very respectful to the 19th minute ?
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
I'm not burying anything, anywhere. It's getting a bit tedious to read that whenever we lose we're bad yet when we don't lose we're 'lucky'.
So what's the reason we've been so appalling this season, Dave, bad luck?
How about a few years of piss poor management by the owner and his staff?
Absolutely, I agree. Lambert still should take his portion of the blame though. By the way, I'm not calling for his head. I want to see him properly backed in the transfer market. I'm just surprised that some fans on here are surprised they're are people calling for his head. Managers' have been sacked for a lot less.
i wouldnt have said you were evr supportive of lambert
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It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
What is amazing is how we can spend so much money over five or six years and still end up worse off than Swansea.
Haven't we taken four points off them this season?
Yep. And they're still 10 points ahead of us.
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If we sack Lambert then what are we going to do ? Please, get a grip of the situation. We are not relegated and we have plenty of time to put things right. "Rollercoaster season" was the favorite post pre season, now it's "Should we sack him". FFS, do we not need some stability inside our club ? And some bloody belief ?
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
I'm not burying anything, anywhere. It's getting a bit tedious to read that whenever we lose we're bad yet when we don't lose we're 'lucky'.
So what's the reason we've been so appalling this season, Dave, bad luck?
How about a few years of piss poor management by the owner and his staff?
Absolutely, I agree. Lambert still should take his portion of the blame though. By the way, I'm not calling for his head. I want to see him properly backed in the transfer market. I'm just surprised that some fans on here are surprised they're are people calling for his head. Managers' have been sacked for a lot less.
i wouldnt have said you were evr supportive of lambert
You're right, he hasn't impressed me at all, but sacking him now would be madness. Nor do I think he's been properly backed. I want to see Lerner give him money to buy PL standard players, not lower league ones. Then we can judge him properly.
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
I'm not burying anything, anywhere. It's getting a bit tedious to read that whenever we lose we're bad yet when we don't lose we're 'lucky'.
So what's the reason we've been so appalling this season, Dave, bad luck?
We've not been good enough - nobody's said any different and that's not what I was talking about so why change the subject?
We were lucky not to go in at halftime by at least 3 goals down, that's what I mean.
And what's all this nonsense about "changing the subject"? Grow up.
That's hysterical coming from you. A team that you reckon is the worst ever and doomed to relegation get a decent away point, against a supposed better team and all you can say is how lucky they are - yet again. When this is pointed out you talk about the rest of the season. That's changing the subject. Please tell me why I need to grow up for pointing that out. I'd love to know.
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Lambert seems to know how to play Swansea, today would've been his fourth straight win against them if we'd hung on for an extra minute so a bit of a bogey manager for them.
Needs to work out how to stop some of the other teams in the league!
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It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
What is amazing is how we can spend so much money over five or six years and still end up worse off than Swansea.
Haven't we taken four points off them this season?
Yep. And they're still 10 points ahead of us.
Funny old world ain't it....
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We as fans and Lerner as owner have got to back PL. It is going to be hard work but a couple of quality signings and players coming back in the next two weeks should keep us up. Seen a link which i could not paste from Tribalfootball.com that the Real Betis coach Pepe Mele had been linked to AVFC ......
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That's hysterical coming from you. A team that you reckon is the worst ever and doomed to relegation get a decent away point, against a supposed better team and all you can say is how lucky they are - yet again. When this is pointed out you talk about the rest of the season. That's changing the subject. Please tell me why I need to grow up for pointing that out. I'd love to know.
We were lucky Dave, especially in the first half. To be so bad and come in at 1-1 was very fortunate indeed.
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I think it's far to say right now is exactly not the situation where we should be sacking Lambert and replacing him with an untried foreign manager!!
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We could have 5-0 down after 10 minutes.That was worse than anything against Chelsea.
Exactly. Our defence is comical. Lambert has to take his share of the blame. I don't get why some fans are so shocked that other have called for the manager's head. This season so far has been humiliating. If McLeish was still in charge with these performances they'd be a riot.
It's amazing how this team of ours can be so bad, yet they can play a team who are much better, not lose, and still be bad.
Stop burying your head in the sand, Dave. We were appalling first half and we got lucky. We can't rely on luck to keep us in the PL this season.
I'm not burying anything, anywhere. It's getting a bit tedious to read that whenever we lose we're bad yet when we don't lose we're 'lucky'.
So what's the reason we've been so appalling this season, Dave, bad luck?
We've not been good enough - nobody's said any different and that's not what I was talking about so why change the subject?
We were lucky not to go in at halftime by at least 3 goals down, that's what I mean.
And what's all this nonsense about "changing the subject"? Grow up.
That's hysterical coming from you. A team that you reckon is the worst ever and doomed to relegation get a decent away point, against a supposed better team and all you can say is how lucky they are - yet again. When this is pointed out you talk about the rest of the season. That's changing the subject. Please tell me why I need to grow up for pointing that out. I'd love to know.
You're deluded, Dave. This season has been utterly shambolic right from the off, with record defeats, worst season starts and goals conceded, yet according to you you're "waiting for things to get better".
Well good luck with that!
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Were we really that bad again today ?
For a large part of the first half.
We rode our luck massively but got stuck in later on.
We have finally reached January. Do we want to waste at least a week of the transfer window by sacking the manager? Bringing in the best manager in the world will make no difference to a wafer thin, inexperienced, injury riddled squad.
Agree fully, this is not a time to change manager and totally confuse the squad. It's about sticking together now. What was the Swansea ground like ? Good pubs , parking etc ? I hear they were very respectful to the 19th minute ?
The ground is good. Unlike most modern grounds it does have some atmosphere. They did a draw on the pitch at half time. Ten people. One by one they drew numbers out and gave the owner £100. It ended with the last one drawn winning £10000. They were from the 1912 Club or something. It was a good bit of half time entertainment.
We went by car, parked about half a mile from the ground. If you get there early enough, you don't need the park and ride. If you park the right side of the ground, you can make a quick getaway as the road from the ground heading our way is blocked until the coaches have gone. You have to park further away than the big island north of the ground to avoid the hold up. There is a pub there that a few Villa fans seemed to be having quite a relaxed time in. This was about 1245. We were meeting Frank in the Grand Hotel so headed off there in a taxi. Beer is nothing special there but, considering it is right outside the station, was not very busy and they cooked us good meals. On the way from where we parked to the town, I saw loads of pubs along the way in the taxi. These looked like straight forward boozers where anyone could go in unless bedecked in away colours and acting the prat.
I thought they had ignored the 19th minute at first but a nice ripple of applause gradually developed into the whole ground joining in. I just don't think they twigged it at first.
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What are you waiting for?
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That's hysterical coming from you. A team that you reckon is the worst ever and doomed to relegation get a decent away point, against a supposed better team and all you can say is how lucky they are - yet again. When this is pointed out you talk about the rest of the season. That's changing the subject. Please tell me why I need to grow up for pointing that out. I'd love to know.
We were lucky Dave, especially in the first half. To be so bad and come in at 1-1 was very fortunate indeed.
it works both ways though, what about the first 60 minutes against manure? they were very very fortunate but had the experience to come through. we are getting there!
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Were we really that bad again today ?
For a large part of the first half.
We rode our luck massively but got stuck in later on.
We have finally reached January. Do we want to waste at least a week of the transfer window by sacking the manager? Bringing in the best manager in the world will make no difference to a wafer thin, inexperienced, injury riddled squad.
Agree fully, this is not a time to change manager and totally confuse the squad. It's about sticking together now. What was the Swansea ground like ? Good pubs , parking etc ? I hear they were very respectful to the 19th minute ?
The ground is good. Unlike most modern grounds it does have some atmosphere. They did a draw on the pitch at half time. Ten people. One by one they drew numbers out and gave the owner £100. It ended with the last one drawn winning £10000. They were from the 1912 Club or something. It was a good bit of half time entertainment.
We went by car, parked about half a mile from the ground. If you get there early enough, you don't need the park and ride. If you park the right side of the ground, you can make a quick getaway as the road from the ground heading our way is blocked until the coaches have gone. You have to park further away than the big island north of the ground to avoid the hold up. There is a pub there that a few Villa fans seemed to be having quite a relaxed time in. This was about 1245. We were meeting Frank in the Grand Hotel so headed off there in a taxi. Beer is nothing special there but, considering it is right outside the station, was not very busy and they cooked us good meals. On the way from where we parked to the town, I saw loads of pubs along the way in the taxi. These looked like straight forward boozers where anyone could go in unless bedecked in away colours and acting the prat.
I thought they had ignored the 19th minute at first but a nice ripple of applause gradually developed into the whole ground joining in. I just don't think they twigged it at first.
And yes, the Swansea fans were very respectful during the 19th minute applause.
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Two legs vs Bradford away from Wembley, chin up.
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What are you waiting for?
Waiting for Lerner to pull his damn finger out and back the manager. And that doesn't mean anymore lower league players. That experiment has failed miserably.
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This season we have played the 'kids' which is what everyone was clanging for.
What can Lambert do? He knew they weren't good enough, tried 3 at the back to compensate, which worked at first then changed it back today.
Lambert IMO cannot be judged on our reserves not being good enough while half the first are out injured.
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What are you waiting for?
Waiting for Lerner to pull his damn finger out and back the manager. And that doesn't mean anymore lower league players. That experiment has failed miserably.
If only he'd put £200 million in, and if only everyone had the ability to know an experiment has failed after half a season.
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it works both ways though, what about the first 60 minutes against manure? they were very very fortunate but had the experience to come through. we are getting there!
That may well be true but it doesn't alter the fact that we got very very lucky in the first half today. I don't think anyone (with the exception of dave w) would argue that.
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We must stick with Paul Lambert and back him fully
I believe he went 442 today which is a good sign
A sign he realises he's made mistakes and is not too stubborn to admit it
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it works both ways though, what about the first 60 minutes against manure? they were very very fortunate but had the experience to come through. we are getting there!
That may well be true but it doesn't alter the fact that we got very very lucky in the first half today. I don't think anyone (with the exception of dave w) would argue that.
If you want to made snidey remarks, try making them about something I've said.
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If only he'd put £200 million in, and if only everyone had the ability to know an experiment has failed after half a season.
£200 million and what we've got is a squad full of kids and crocked under-achievers.
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What are you waiting for?
Waiting for Lerner to pull his damn finger out and back the manager. And that doesn't mean anymore lower league players. That experiment has failed miserably.
If only he'd put £200 million in, and if only everyone had the ability to know an experiment has failed after half a season.
There's cutbacks and then there's drastic cutbacks. What Lerner has done in the last 2-3 years is beyond even that. It's bordering on incompetence.
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it works both ways though, what about the first 60 minutes against manure? they were very very fortunate but had the experience to come through. we are getting there!
That may well be true but it doesn't alter the fact that we got very very lucky in the first half today. I don't think anyone (with the exception of dave w) would argue that.
i dont think dave could deny or would deny they were well on top today, what we did 2nd half though was get our hairy bollocks out and show them. i doubt there isnt one villa fan who would say that an experienced head around would be helping this young team, unfortunately the ones we have are sitting in the stand, but we are going solidly in the right direction. pl is the man to take us there imo.
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If you want to made snidey remarks, try making them about something I've said.
So you do accept we were lucky today then? I must have been foxed by you taking saunders to task for describing us as lucky.
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What are you waiting for?
Waiting for Lerner to pull his damn finger out and back the manager. And that doesn't mean anymore lower league players. That experiment has failed miserably.
If only he'd put £200 million in, and if only everyone had the ability to know an experiment has failed after half a season.
There's cutbacks and then there's drastic cutbacks. What Lerner has done in the last 2-3 years is beyond even that. It's bordering on incompetence.
It's not bordering, it's a full on military assault over the border into Incompetencania, without a UN Resolution.
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Shame about late goal, and know we were murdered early on, but the team showed some balls and that is a good sign for the battles ahead. Lambert in for sure
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Thanks Dave Clark 5 may do Swansea next season , hope I get the chance to ;-)
Listened on WM they mentioned that draw and that a bloke had won 10k, they mentioned the Swansea fans excellent response to the 19 minute.
Then they had a power cut after the game and franks was replaced by some guy at the Mailbox for 10 mins Who did his best to ad lib
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it works both ways though, what about the first 60 minutes against manure? they were very very fortunate but had the experience to come through. we are getting there!
That may well be true but it doesn't alter the fact that we got very very lucky in the first half today. I don't think anyone (with the exception of dave w) would argue that.
i dont think dave could deny or would deny they were well on top today, what we did 2nd half though was get our hairy bollocks out and show them. i doubt there isnt one villa fan who would say that an experienced head around would be helping this young team, unfortunately the ones we have are sitting in the stand, but we are going solidly in the right direction. pl is the man to take us there imo.
Solidly?! How on earth have you come to that conclusion, this is the sorriest, lamest excuse for a season we've had since 1986. 40 goals conceded in 20 games is anything but solid.
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Risso we are still waiting on your response as to who would be a better choice than Lambert???
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i dont think dave could deny or would deny they were well on top today, what we did 2nd half though was get our hairy bollocks out and show them. i doubt there isnt one villa fan who would say that an experienced head around would be helping this young team, unfortunately the ones we have are sitting in the stand, but we are going solidly in the right direction. pl is the man to take us there imo.
I agree with you there. We were much better in the second half especially when Benteke and Weimann got more into the game. As it goes, I don't think giving Lambert the poke would do much good. I've said before that he needs three seasons at least to turn things round but what the team really needs is an immediate injection of some quality experienced players and a further injection in the summer.
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If you want to made snidey remarks, try making them about something I've said.
So you do accept we were lucky today then? I must have been foxed by you taking saunders to task for describing us as lucky.
One man's lucky is another man's resolute defending but it's not about today. The same people who say we're going down and this is the worst Vila team for 20/30/138 years are invariably the same ones who describe results against teams who are therefore better than us as lucky.
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If you want to made snidey remarks, try making them about something I've said.
So you do accept we were lucky today then? I must have been foxed by you taking saunders to task for describing us as lucky.
One man's lucky is another man's resolute defending but it's not about today. The same people who say we're going down and this is the worst Vila team for 20/30/138 years are invariably the same ones who describe results against teams who are therefore better than us as lucky.
You did notice that we conceded two goals, which is our average for the season as it happens.
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it works both ways though, what about the first 60 minutes against manure? they were very very fortunate but had the experience to come through. we are getting there!
That may well be true but it doesn't alter the fact that we got very very lucky in the first half today. I don't think anyone (with the exception of dave w) would argue that.
i dont think dave could deny or would deny they were well on top today, what we did 2nd half though was get our hairy bollocks out and show them. i doubt there isnt one villa fan who would say that an experienced head around would be helping this young team, unfortunately the ones we have are sitting in the stand, but we are going solidly in the right direction. pl is the man to take us there imo.
Solidly?! How on earth have you come to that conclusion, this is the sorriest, lamest excuse for a season we've had since 1986. 40 goals conceded in 20 games is anything but solid.
tell me your thoughts 2 weeks ago riss!
Risso we are still waiting on your response as to who would be a better choice than Lambert???
it works both ways though, what about the first 60 minutes against manure? they were very very fortunate but had the experience to come through. we are getting there!
That may well be true but it doesn't alter the fact that we got very very lucky in the first half today. I don't think anyone (with the exception of dave w) would argue that.
i dont think dave could deny or would deny they were well on top today, what we did 2nd half though was get our hairy bollocks out and show them. i doubt there isnt one villa fan who would say that an experienced head around would be helping this young team, unfortunately the ones we have are sitting in the stand, but we are going solidly in the right direction. pl is the man to take us there imo.
Solidly?! How on earth have you come to that conclusion, this is the sorriest, lamest excuse for a season we've had since 1986. 40 goals conceded in 20 games is anything but solid.
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it works both ways though, what about the first 60 minutes against manure? they were very very fortunate but had the experience to come through. we are getting there!
That may well be true but it doesn't alter the fact that we got very very lucky in the first half today. I don't think anyone (with the exception of dave w) would argue that.
i dont think dave could deny or would deny they were well on top today, what we did 2nd half though was get our hairy bollocks out and show them. i doubt there isnt one villa fan who would say that an experienced head around would be helping this young team, unfortunately the ones we have are sitting in the stand, but we are going solidly in the right direction. pl is the man to take us there imo.
Solidly?! How on earth have you come to that conclusion, this is the sorriest, lamest excuse for a season we've had since 1986. 40 goals conceded in 20 games is anything but solid.
tell me your thoughts 2 weeks ago riss!
Risso we are still waiting on your response as to who would be a better choice than Lambert???
it works both ways though, what about the first 60 minutes against manure? they were very very fortunate but had the experience to come through. we are getting there!
That may well be true but it doesn't alter the fact that we got very very lucky in the first half today. I don't think anyone (with the exception of dave w) would argue that.
i dont think dave could deny or would deny they were well on top today, what we did 2nd half though was get our hairy bollocks out and show them. i doubt there isnt one villa fan who would say that an experienced head around would be helping this young team, unfortunately the ones we have are sitting in the stand, but we are going solidly in the right direction. pl is the man to take us there imo.
Solidly?! How on earth have you come to that conclusion, this is the sorriest, lamest excuse for a season we've had since 1986. 40 goals conceded in 20 games is anything but solid.
what were your thoughts 2 weeks ago riss?
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One man's lucky is another man's resolute defending but it's not about today. The same people who say we're going down and this is the worst Vila team for 20/30/138 years are invariably the same ones who describe results against teams who are therefore better than us as lucky.
The post was certainly resolute for us today. But I'm not sure I see the controversy in seeing a poor side ride their luck to a point against a superior team and describing it as such.
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I had some mate texting me when we went one down saying he couldnt support us if we went to the championship. I started supporting my beloved team in the old third division and will never stop doing so. Some of us are lucky to have seen massive highs along with the lows. Get a grip though, Lambert has made mistakes, but I have faith in him and hope he proves me right
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One man's lucky is another man's resolute defending but it's not about today. The same people who say we're going down and this is the worst Vila team for 20/30/138 years are invariably the same ones who describe results against teams who are therefore better than us as lucky.
The post was certainly resolute for us today. But I'm not sure I see the controversy in seeing a poor side ride their luck to a point against a superior team and describing it as such.
I think this is the fourth time I've said this:
It's not just about today, it's about every single time we go away and get a decent result. We can never play well, we always have to be lucky.
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I had some mate texting me when we went one down saying he couldnt support us if we went to the championship. I started supporting my beloved team in the old third division and will never stop doing so. Some of us are lucky to have seen massive highs along with the lows. Get a grip though, Lambert has made mistakes, but I have faith in him and hope he proves me right
tell him to go a fuck off then, we dont need supporters like that!
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One man's lucky is another man's resolute defending but it's not about today. The same people who say we're going down and this is the worst Vila team for 20/30/138 years are invariably the same ones who describe results against teams who are therefore better than us as lucky.
The post was certainly resolute for us today. But I'm not sure I see the controversy in seeing a poor side ride their luck to a point against a superior team and describing it as such.
Outclassed early on, conceded another early goal, but they battled through and got a good point, from what I hear we were the better team in second half. Hopefully some of the injured players will be back for next game, Westwood will be massive loss if he has broken ankle though as twitter rumours suggest
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I had some mate texting me when we went one down saying he couldnt support us if we went to the championship. I started supporting my beloved team in the old third division and will never stop doing so. Some of us are lucky to have seen massive highs along with the lows. Get a grip though, Lambert has made mistakes, but I have faith in him and hope he proves me right
tell him to go a fuck off then, we dont need supporters like that!
Too many of our supposed fans think we have divine right to be in top tier
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I think this is the fourth time I've said this:
It's not just about today, it's about every single time we go away and get a decent result. We can never play well, we always have to be lucky.
Perhaps, but today isn't the day to be arguing about how lucky we are or aren't. We're where we are in the table because most of the time we don't play well. Sometimes we do play well and occasionally win. Sometimes, like today, we play pretty badly but ride our luck to a point.
It seems a strange thing - out of all the horrors we've seen this season, let alone the last 3 - to get riled about.
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I think this is the fourth time I've said this:
It's not just about today, it's about every single time we go away and get a decent result. We can never play well, we always have to be lucky.
Perhaps, but today isn't the day to be arguing about how lucky we are or aren't. We're where we are in the table because most of the time we don't play well. Sometimes we do play well and occasionally win. Sometimes, like today, we play pretty badly but ride our luck to a point.
It seems a strange thing - out of all the horrors we've seen this season, let alone the last 3 - to get riled about.
were not invincible, just heard the mighty Gary Barlow singing it
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I had some mate texting me when we went one down saying he couldnt support us if we went to the championship. I started supporting my beloved team in the old third division and will never stop doing so. Some of us are lucky to have seen massive highs along with the lows. Get a grip though, Lambert has made mistakes, but I have faith in him and hope he proves me right
tell him to go a fuck off then, we dont need supporters like that!
Tell him to go pick a Sky 4 team to support... He can always change when a new moneybags comes along....
Mind you he might just have been ranting out of frustration like the rest of us....
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So played badly, nearly won, got a decent point, what's not to like ?
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I had some mate texting me when we went one down saying he couldnt support us if we went to the championship. I started supporting my beloved team in the old third division and will never stop doing so. Some of us are lucky to have seen massive highs along with the lows. Get a grip though, Lambert has made mistakes, but I have faith in him and hope he proves me right
tell him to go a fuck off then, we dont need supporters like that!
Too many of our supposed fans think we have divine right to be in top tier
We do, we invented it during our proud history, now all we need to do is sort out the bright future...
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I am still waiting to find out who is a viable replacement for our current manager.
Barney Wibble.
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Too many of our supposed fans think we have divine right to be in top tier
A club that has spent as much as we have and that was challenging the top 4 as recently as three seasons ago shouldn't be anywhere near the relegation zone let alone considering what life might be like in the Championship.
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Too many of our supposed fans think we have divine right to be in top tier
A club that has spent as much as we have and that was challenging the top 4 as recently as three seasons ago shouldn't be anywhere near the relegation zone let alone considering what life might be like in the Championship.
No club has a divine right to be at the top
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I had some mate texting me when we went one down saying he couldnt support us if we went to the championship. I started supporting my beloved team in the old third division and will never stop doing so. Some of us are lucky to have seen massive highs along with the lows. Get a grip though, Lambert has made mistakes, but I have faith in him and hope he proves me right
tell him to go a fuck off then, we dont need supporters like that!
Too many of our supposed fans think we have divine right to be in top tier
What's wrong with thinking we should be in the PL? I think we've only spent 12 seasons outside of it in our entire history. It's where we belong and we should demand it as well.
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Too many of our supposed fans think we have divine right to be in top tier
A club that has spent as much as we have and that was challenging the top 4 as recently as three seasons ago shouldn't be anywhere near the relegation zone let alone considering what life might be like in the Championship.
No club has a divine right to be at the top
And?
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Too many of our supposed fans think we have divine right to be in top tier
A club that has spent as much as we have and that was challenging the top 4 as recently as three seasons ago shouldn't be anywhere near the relegation zone let alone considering what life might be like in the Championship.
No club has a divine right to be at the top
And?
And
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But
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Too many of our supposed fans think we have divine right to be in top tier
A club that has spent as much as we have and that was challenging the top 4 as recently as three seasons ago shouldn't be anywhere near the relegation zone let alone considering what life might be like in the Championship.
No club has a divine right to be at the top
And?
And
Sorry thought you missed a bit :)
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Too many of our supposed fans think we have divine right to be in top tier
A club that has spent as much as we have and that was challenging the top 4 as recently as three seasons ago shouldn't be anywhere near the relegation zone let alone considering what life might be like in the Championship.
No club has a divine right to be at the top
And?
And
Sorry thought you missed a bit :)
No, I did not. We may not agree with players, manager or owner, but I will always love my fecking club
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Too many of our supposed fans think we have divine right to be in top tier
A club that has spent as much as we have and that was challenging the top 4 as recently as three seasons ago shouldn't be anywhere near the relegation zone let alone considering what life might be like in the Championship.
No club has a divine right to be at the top
And?
And
Sorry thought you missed a bit :)
No, I did not. We may not agree with players, manager or owner, but I will always love my fecking club
We all love it mate, that's why we are all in meltdown...
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No, some just like to fecking moan about everything. Was behind the goal by the way when Graydons pen was saved by kevin keelan, like your comment
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Way i see it we were lucky. No two ways about it, another day and we'd have been going in at half time 3/4 nil down. However when we did go behind, the heads didn't drop which is a massive plus in itself. Gotta hope the confidence is coming back because it doesn't look hopeful on the injury front - Concerned that the fans don't get on the players back if we start badly in the next home game or i fear it could be another disaster. ..#randygetyourchequebookout.
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No, some just like to fecking moan about everything. Was behind the goal by the way when Graydons pen was saved by kevin keelan, like your comment
The good old days...
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Some games you play well and deservedly win, eg the Liverpool game. Some games you're dreadful and deservedly get battered, eg Chelsea, Spurs and Wigan. Sometimes you play badly and get a draw, eg today.
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You're deluded, Dave. This season has been utterly shambolic right from the off, with record defeats, worst season starts and goals conceded, yet according to you you're "waiting for things to get better".
Well good luck with that!
There's nothing deluded about it.
The team that barely scraped past the relegation post last season is now even more depleted and is the youngest ever Villa side, yet we are still outside the relegation zone with a transfer window to go and more experienced players almost ready to come back into the side.
We showed character in the two games either side of the Christmas disaster zone and are in a very winnable cup semi-final.
You keep taking the prozac, I'll happily look for the positives and say that yes, along with Woodhall, I am definitely waiting for things to get better, and I don't reckon I'll have much of a wait either.
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One man's lucky is another man's resolute defending but it's not about today. The same people who say we're going down and this is the worst Vila team for 20/30/138 years are invariably the same ones who describe results against teams who are therefore better than us as lucky.
The post was certainly resolute for us today. But I'm not sure I see the controversy in seeing a poor side ride their luck to a point against a superior team and describing it as such.
I think this is the fourth time I've said this:
It's not just about today, it's about every single time we go away and get a decent result. We can never play well, we always have to be lucky.
I think you're making things up to suit your argument. Where did anybody say anything of the sort in the win against Liverpool, for example?
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Way i see it we were lucky. No two ways about it, another day and we'd have been going in at half time 3/4 nil down. However when we did go behind, the heads didn't drop which is a massive plus in itself. Gotta hope the confidence is coming back because it doesn't look hopeful on the injury front - Concerned that the fans don't get on the players back if we start badly in the next home game or i fear it could be another disaster. ..#randygetyourchequebookout.
The heads did not drop and I think that is a major plus. As for the fans, I think they have been excellent by and large
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I agree with Coops, and also with movie character Scott Hastings from the hit dance film 'Strictly Ballroom'. He expressed the belief that 'a life lived in fear is something something something' (I was pissed when I saw that bit).
I firmly believe we have the moves to win the Pan-Pacific Grand Prix.
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Chelsea, Tottenham and Wigan - they were all shit Villa performances. Anybody that says different is clueless. Only O'Neill would have found any good out of those games.
However, we still have time to save ourselves, also time to do a bit better than just save ourselves. Let's not harangue the Manager. None of us could do any better than he is doing. As I told someone today, who was questioning why Herd was centre back, who else could he play there?
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You're deluded, Dave. This season has been utterly shambolic right from the off, with record defeats, worst season starts and goals conceded, yet according to you you're "waiting for things to get better".
Well good luck with that!
There's nothing deluded about it.
The team that barely scraped past the relegation post last season is now even more depleted and is the youngest ever Villa side, yet we are still outside the relegation zone with a transfer window to go and more experienced players almost ready to come back into the side.
We showed character in the two games either side of the Christmas disaster zone and are in a very winnable cup semi-final.
You keep taking the prozac, I'll happily look for the positives and say that yes, along with Woodhall, I am definitely waiting for things to get better, and I don't reckon I'll have much of a wait either.
but is there much quality to come back? Barring Vlaar and Bent sometimes, most of the injured experienced players haven't really been much use when they're fit. The transfer window is the big question mark - i'm guessing Lerner will spend, but enough? Its likely that we're not going to win more games then we lose in the 2nd half of the season to improve the goal difference so really we need to put points on the board. I don't think its fair to lay any of the injuries/lack of quality in the squad at lamberts door but its a brave man who's confident it will get better
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In, but he needs to address our issues in January and be a bit more flexible in his approach.
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its a brave man who's confident it will get better
I'm confident it will get better. We desperately needed to stop the rot but the comeback today showed there is character and I think that's the most important thing of all when it comes to survival, and shows that Lambert does have something to build on. He does need to be backed by Lerner though, of that there is no doubt.
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Way i see it we were lucky. No two ways about it, another day and we'd have been going in at half time 3/4 nil down. However when we did go behind, the heads didn't drop which is a massive plus in itself. Gotta hope the confidence is coming back because it doesn't look hopeful on the injury front - Concerned that the fans don't get on the players back if we start badly in the next home game or i fear it could be another disaster. ..#randygetyourchequebookout.
The heads did not drop and I think that is a major plus. As for the fans, I think they have been excellent by and large
I think even the media have commented on our patience. Its more the fear factor for the young players at home that worries me. TSM couldn't buy a home win for a long time and for the vast majority they buy a season ticket in the hope we'll win at home occassionally. 2 wins at home is pretty dire
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its a brave man who's confident it will get better
I'm confident it will get better. We desperately needed to stop the rot but the comeback today showed there is character and I think that's the most important thing of all when it comes to survival, and shows that Lambert does have something to build on. He does need to be backed by Lerner though, of that there is no doubt.
yep. Agreed.
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Things could be so much worse.
I have just been on the Forest Forum. TSM is already coming out with garbage, 'dynamic football' etc.
At least we have a progressive manager now who, if backed, can develop a coherent team at Aston Villa. We are building something with players who have the potential to improve. Last year we were led by a dinosaur with no plan, no concept of developing a way of playing as a team and who thought he could build something with overpaid journeymen like Hutton.
We gotta give Lambert time. Instability over the past three years has been a disaster for villa. We need stability and we need to embrace the change Lambert is trying to introduce.
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What exactly is that change Irish? I still haven't read a compelling case for what *it* is that Lambert is supposed to be providing.
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Things could be so much worse.
I have just been on the Forest Forum. TSM is already coming out with garbage, 'dynamic football' etc.
Ha ha! True, I was reading his post-match comments and noticed he said the exact same type of things as when he was in charge of us. I feel sorry for their fans.
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Things could be so much worse.
I have just been on the Forest Forum. TSM is already coming out with garbage, 'dynamic football' etc.
At least we have a progressive manager now who, if backed, can develop a coherent team at Aston Villa. We are building something with players who have the potential to improve. Last year we were led by a dinosaur with no plan, no concept of developing a way of playing as a team and who thought he could build something with overpaid journeymen like Hutton.
We gotta give Lambert time. Instability over the past three years has been a disaster for villa. We need stability and we need to embrace the change Lambert is trying to introduce.
I admire your confidence but i think we're actually worse now than we were last season. The players look out of their depth and the team is awful. When will we see this improvement you talk of?
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What exactly is that change Irish? I still haven't read a compelling case for what *it* is that Lambert is supposed to be providing.
Very tired so this will be a very patchy response. I liked your comment re Weimann on the other thread. You can see the potential there can't you? Likewise with Benteke, Lowton, Westwood and Baker. We were drifting aimlessly for two years with overpaid journeymen who weren't going to improve, were costing us a fortune and didn't give a damn.
Yes, Christmas has been dreadful and has rocked every one of us. Undoubtedly, the momentum Lambert's style had been picking up has been derailed. But look at the injury crisis we have faced and the sheer number of massive games in such a short period with an over-stretched squad. These are young players with heart and potential who have been forced to endure a torrid Christmas time largely because of injury to key, experienced players such as Vlaar, Gabby, Bent and N'Zogbia. I know people will argue the latter two hadn't featured a whole lot this season. I am sure Clark and baker would have had a better Christmas with Vlaar alongside. Likewise, Weimann probably needed a rest over Christmas.
We are on the start of a journey. I genuinely believe that we finally have the right manager. I just hope Randy backs him with a bigger squad.
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Things could be so much worse.
I have just been on the Forest Forum. TSM is already coming out with garbage, 'dynamic football' etc.
Ha ha! True, I was reading his post-match comments and noticed he said the exact same type of things as when he was in charge of us. I feel sorry for their fans.
Sounds like Hutton might be on his way back though. TSM was asked about him and Jenas as their loan deals are up now apparently. Jenas is injured (*surprised face*) and when asked about Hutton he said something about needing to get forward players in.
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Things could be so much worse.
I have just been on the Forest Forum. TSM is already coming out with garbage, 'dynamic football' etc.
At least we have a progressive manager now who, if backed, can develop a coherent team at Aston Villa. We are building something with players who have the potential to improve. Last year we were led by a dinosaur with no plan, no concept of developing a way of playing as a team and who thought he could build something with overpaid journeymen like Hutton.
We gotta give Lambert time. Instability over the past three years has been a disaster for villa. We need stability and we need to embrace the change Lambert is trying to introduce.
I admire your confidence but i think we're actually worse now than we were last season. The players look out of their depth and the team is awful. When will we see this improvement you talk of?
The thrashings have knocked us all for six. I just think it is premature to write Lambert off. I have seen enough positive signs. Change is never smooth and we have had a bad run of injuries. I hope Randy has learned that we need a bigger squad and a couple of wise heads.
We have looked poor since Chelsea but remember last season? We never looked like attacking as a team, and relied on individuals remembering how to behave in opp half. We are more of a team now but still a work in progress. I'd rather be a work in progress than what we were second half of last season.
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Things could be so much worse.
I have just been on the Forest Forum. TSM is already coming out with garbage, 'dynamic football' etc.
Ha ha! True, I was reading his post-match comments and noticed he said the exact same type of things as when he was in charge of us. I feel sorry for their fans.
Sounds like Hutton might be on his way back though. TSM was asked about him and Jenas as their loan deals are up now apparently. Jenas is injured (*surprised face*) and when asked about Hutton he said something about needing to get forward players in.
Who told TSM about forward players?
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We haven't looked attacking very much at all this season, and for all the injuries now, we were hardly doing much better at any point this season. It was the same with Mcleish, it's no point moaning about injuries when you hardly played very well with a full squad earlier in the season.
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One man's lucky is another man's resolute defending but it's not about today. The same people who say we're going down and this is the worst Vila team for 20/30/138 years are invariably the same ones who describe results against teams who are therefore better than us as lucky.
The post was certainly resolute for us today. But I'm not sure I see the controversy in seeing a poor side ride their luck to a point against a superior team and describing it as such.
I think this is the fourth time I've said this:
It's not just about today, it's about every single time we go away and get a decent result. We can never play well, we always have to be lucky.
I think you're making things up to suit your argument. Where did anybody say anything of the sort in the win against Liverpool, for example?
Good to hear you mention Liverpool as you've been spending the last few days telling us absolutely everything is shit.
Clearly not the case, then.
Still waiting for the suggestion re who we go after tomorrow morning after sacking Lambert tonight, btw.
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Things could be so much worse.
I have just been on the Forest Forum. TSM is already coming out with garbage, 'dynamic football' etc.
At least we have a progressive manager now who, if backed, can develop a coherent team at Aston Villa. We are building something with players who have the potential to improve. Last year we were led by a dinosaur with no plan, no concept of developing a way of playing as a team and who thought he could build something with overpaid journeymen like Hutton.
We gotta give Lambert time. Instability over the past three years has been a disaster for villa. We need stability and we need to embrace the change Lambert is trying to introduce.
I admire your confidence but i think we're actually worse now than we were last season. The players look out of their depth and the team is awful. When will we see this improvement you talk of?
The thrashings have knocked us all for six. I just think it is premature to write Lambert off. I have seen enough positive signs. Change is never smooth and we have had a bad run of injuries. I hope Randy has learned that we need a bigger squad and a couple of wise heads.
We have looked poor since Chelsea but remember last season? We never looked like attacking as a team, and relied on individuals remembering how to behave in opp half. We are more of a team now but still a work in progress. I'd rather be a work in progress than what we were second half of last season.
A very good point that I agree with. Last season we were a team on it's last legs, this season we're a team taking it's first steps.
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One man's lucky is another man's resolute defending but it's not about today. The same people who say we're going down and this is the worst Vila team for 20/30/138 years are invariably the same ones who describe results against teams who are therefore better than us as lucky.
The post was certainly resolute for us today. But I'm not sure I see the controversy in seeing a poor side ride their luck to a point against a superior team and describing it as such.
I think this is the fourth time I've said this:
It's not just about today, it's about every single time we go away and get a decent result. We can never play well, we always have to be lucky.
I think you're making things up to suit your argument. Where did anybody say anything of the sort in the win against Liverpool, for example?
Good to hear you mention Liverpool as you've been spending the last few days telling us absolutely everything is shit.
Clearly not the case, then.
Still waiting for the suggestion re who we go after tomorrow morning after sacking Lambert tonight, btw.
Bloody hell, have you passed your log in details onto somebody else? No, not everything is shit, but then no team in history that I can think of has lost every single game in a professional league. Should we have stuck with McLeish because we beat Chelsea away 3-1 or put up a good performance in a draw with Arsenal? No, of course we shouldn't, and neither should we stick with a manager who is performing even worse than TSM, which I didn't actually think was possible. And if I had to choose somebody to see us through to the end of the season, I'd probably go for Roberto di Matteo. Yes, he wasn't great at West Brom, but he showed he could organise Chelsea a bit, and he'd perform better than Lambert has this season. Plus he lives in Leamington Spa, so you could pop round to give him some advice.
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One man's lucky is another man's resolute defending but it's not about today. The same people who say we're going down and this is the worst Vila team for 20/30/138 years are invariably the same ones who describe results against teams who are therefore better than us as lucky.
The post was certainly resolute for us today. But I'm not sure I see the controversy in seeing a poor side ride their luck to a point against a superior team and describing it as such.
I think this is the fourth time I've said this:
It's not just about today, it's about every single time we go away and get a decent result. We can never play well, we always have to be lucky.
I think you're making things up to suit your argument. Where did anybody say anything of the sort in the win against Liverpool, for example?
Good to hear you mention Liverpool as you've been spending the last few days telling us absolutely everything is shit.
Clearly not the case, then.
Still waiting for the suggestion re who we go after tomorrow morning after sacking Lambert tonight, btw.
Bloody hell, have you passed your log in details onto somebody else? No, not everything is shit, but then no team in history that I can think of has lost every single game in a professional league. Should we have stuck with McLeish because we beat Chelsea away 3-1 or put up a good performance in a draw with Arsenal? No, of course we shouldn't, and neither should we stick with a manager who is performing even worse than TSM, which I didn't actually think was possible. And if I had to choose somebody to see us through to the end of the season, I'd probably go for Roberto di Matteo. Yes, he wasn't great at West Brom, but he showed he could organise Chelsea a bit, and he'd perform better than Lambert has this season. Plus he lives in Leamington Spa, so you could pop round to give him some advice.
No, he wasnt great at West Brom , far from it actaully
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Things could be so much worse.
I have just been on the Forest Forum. TSM is already coming out with garbage, 'dynamic football' etc.
At least we have a progressive manager now who, if backed, can develop a coherent team at Aston Villa. We are building something with players who have the potential to improve. Last year we were led by a dinosaur with no plan, no concept of developing a way of playing as a team and who thought he could build something with overpaid journeymen like Hutton.
We gotta give Lambert time. Instability over the past three years has been a disaster for villa. We need stability and we need to embrace the change Lambert is trying to introduce.
Spot on. People are criticising the quality of the players that are injured .However,if you replace a player with a better player,then that's improvement. That player doesn't need to be international class,just better than the one holding the first team berth.Likewise with transfers.
Similarly,having a coherent plan,as Lambert has,is better than reacting to the vagaries of a season's fortunes .That 's how progress is eventually made and eventually is the key word.
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One man's lucky is another man's resolute defending but it's not about today. The same people who say we're going down and this is the worst Vila team for 20/30/138 years are invariably the same ones who describe results against teams who are therefore better than us as lucky.
The post was certainly resolute for us today. But I'm not sure I see the controversy in seeing a poor side ride their luck to a point against a superior team and describing it as such.
I think this is the fourth time I've said this:
It's not just about today, it's about every single time we go away and get a decent result. We can never play well, we always have to be lucky.
I think you're making things up to suit your argument. Where did anybody say anything of the sort in the win against Liverpool, for example?
Good to hear you mention Liverpool as you've been spending the last few days telling us absolutely everything is shit.
Clearly not the case, then.
Still waiting for the suggestion re who we go after tomorrow morning after sacking Lambert tonight, btw.
Bloody hell, have you passed your log in details onto somebody else? No, not everything is shit, but then no team in history that I can think of has lost every single game in a professional league. Should we have stuck with McLeish because we beat Chelsea away 3-1 or put up a good performance in a draw with Arsenal? No, of course we shouldn't, and neither should we stick with a manager who is performing even worse than TSM, which I didn't actually think was possible. And if I had to choose somebody to see us through to the end of the season, I'd probably go for Roberto di Matteo. Yes, he wasn't great at West Brom, but he showed he could organise Chelsea a bit, and he'd perform better than Lambert has this season. Plus he lives in Leamington Spa, so you could pop round to give him some advice.
No, he wasnt great at West Brom , far from it actaully
He got them promoted and gave them their then record start to a season. When he was sacked, they has 26 points from 24 games, which isn't great but a lot better than Lambert has managed to date. He then won the European Cup with Chelsea, so he'd be worth a go. And as for being far from great, Lambert hasn't even reached the heights of being as bad as McLeish yet.
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The only real leadership from within this club comes from Lambert, he doesn't always get it right admittedly but at least he has confidence in his, and his coaching staff's ability to improve the players currently at the club. Rightly or wrongly at least it is a strategy, more than what Lerner and Faulkner appear to have from the top of the club. Let's be honest though, if we got rid of Lambert now it would screw up the chance of bringing in any players in this transfer window such is the amount of time it would take Lerner and Faulkner to bring in a new manager. I also don't believe we could get better. The injuries haven't helped Lambert at all, but he was quick to identify our weaknesses in the summer and dealt with them efficiently, I trust he'll do the same in January.
The only thing we'll gain by getting rid of Lambert is a new manager with a different strategy and most likely relegation.
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So, that's the plan? Sack Lambert and hope Di Matteo accepts the job, he last seen in the area getting the bullet at Albion? All he did at Chelsea was let the gobshite players run things. And what if he says no? On the blower to Roy Keane?
Somehow, though, whoever the new man is, he's going to come in here, hit the ground running, have a list of scouted transfer targets ready and make it all happen?
Your comparisons to McLeish are pointless. If you genuinely think we haven't shown more promise this season than we did under him, I'd have to question whether you've actually been watching our games.
I can't believe how utterly nuts you've gone on this subject. And you reckon someone has stolen *my* login?
You just sound like you're frothing at the mouth with anger, dying to get someone sacked, with a total unwillingness to face facts regarding where we are, the point in the season we're at, and the realistic options we have.
What's more, if we sacked Lambert and appointed Di Matteo or Keane or Allardyce or whoever you rate this week, it'd take a few shit results and you'd be the first on their back, too.
Give the bloke a chance, why not. Changing managers every season has got us nowhere and costs a fortune.
There isn't a magic, convenient answer to all this, so man the fuck up FFS and get behind the team.
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Then why did we sack McLeish? Why not give him a chance? I couldn't give two fucks that he managed SHA, yet he performed much better than Lambert has to date.
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And if I had to choose somebody to see us through to the end of the season, I'd probably go for Roberto di Matteo. Yes, he wasn't great at West Brom, but he showed he could organise Chelsea a bit, and he'd perform better than Lambert has this season. Plus he lives in Leamington Spa, so you could pop round to give him some advice.
No, he wasnt great at West Brom , far from it actaully
Which is more of tell on his managerial competency for coming to us rather then Chelsea where he just had to ensure he kept Lampard, Terry, Cole and Drogba happy by letting them decide how to manage the team. There was one match where you could see Terry telling RDM which sub to make.
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Did he Risso? we weren't much higher up the league and I don't remember him reaching a cup semi final. I'm not saying we're perfect at all and Lambert has made some errors. However we've shown some promise at times and Lambert should have the opportunity to improve the squad in January, particularly as several of his signings look excellent.
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When Albion sacked him his last 18 games were W3 D2 L13. And according to a couple of Albion fans I know their ITK was that he was hawking himself to other clubs during that run which was the main reason he was dumped regardless of whether the run they were on would have seen him go.
What he did there is of far more relevance to us than what he did at a Chelsea side where as Somniloquism says a lot of talk is that he let the players run things. Not exactly the strong leader we need at the moment.
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Lambert and his staff seem to operate on the principle of we think this guy is talented,we'll play him ,like Bannan whom I don't rate,or we'll buy him ,like Lowton,who the Sheffield Utd fans surprisingly didn't seem to rate.We can't get Dale Stephens for a reasonable fee,so we'll find this absolute gem,Westwood.
It's a meritocracy,it doesn't matter where they come from,Belgium,Holland,Crewe,Sheffield United or the reserve team,they're given a chance. Falcao and MON ? It's such a refreshing change and an enlightened one.
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Give the bloke a chance, why not. Changing managers every season has got us nowhere and costs a fortune.
I think that's the point. Most people are behind Lambert not because he appears to have a plan or because he appears to know what he's doing or because we're playing good football but simply because the alternative - sacking him and waiting in terrified anticipation of Lerner's next fuck up - is so unpalatable.
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This whole arguement is like groundhog day to me, and frankly either side of the arguement has as much merit as when we had this discussion about Houllier and TSM. Sooner or later you can't keep blaming the manager whatever their actual ability. I said Houllier had an awful squad and i stand by that, likewise TSM- neither of them helped themselves by some of their signings of course. Lambert's just the lastest mug and there's no doubt in my mind for all the promise of the youngsters and some of his signings this is by far a weaker and smaller squad than the one MON inherited which at the time was considered by many to be heading for the championship.
It needs money spent on it - then we can judge the manager properly - if not then he's at the mercy of inconsistent youngsters and overpaid wasters like the previous appointments. If he stops the goals against column spinning ever upwards then he's got a chance of keeping his job and creating something longterm but really there's only so much a manager can do without backing from his chairman.
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It is good to have alternative view here. So I admire the posters who are anti Lambert. They are keeping everyone honest and stopping a sort of tendency that allows dictators to take charge of masses and lead them to ruins.
On the face of it these poster appears to be absolute kamikaze pilots however they provide a valid examination by questioning our correct belief that Lambert is there to stay come rain or shine.
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Then why did we sack McLeish? Why not give him a chance? I couldn't give two fucks that he managed SHA, yet he performed much better than Lambert has to date.
Much better? Possible cup final and almost the same points to game ratio if you take Eck over the whole season. He has got 3 seasons of chopping, changing and no established squad or style of play to combat.
As for the crap Lambert signed last summer, imagine, for a second, with the 22 million he spent, he had bought in 4 players. Say a centre back, centre mid, forward and full back. Would we be better off, with the same injury crisis? I don't think so. I reckon he thought Dunne would be back 4-6 weeks into the season, Bent was a different character to the one he found, Ireland was not quite as fecking useless and he tried Hutton and Warnock and they were that poor in friendlies he had to replace them ASAP. Lowton is a significant improvement, Bennett isn't yet, although last season Warnock was a walking disaster. I am interested to see what we sign in January. If Stephens is as good as Westwood in the middle great. If he spots the weaknesses he clearly did last summer then again great. He has had 1 window, woeful injuries and no time. We have to stick with someone and I would sooner Lambert that the reportedly lazy and pretty shit manager Di Matteo, Roy been shit everywhere Keane, or Sam big gob Allardyce. Lambert leaving we would end up regretting in 3-4 years as his team come to VP and batter us.
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Out! Out! Out!
We should of been at least 4 down before we equalised yesterday for me he's absolutely clueless and got to go. Like 90% of these so called professional players we have. I wouldn't even call them pub players their much worse than that!
Clark is one of the worst Defender in the Prem by a mile. It'a a disgrace that he anywhere near the First Team.
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Error
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Error
Indeed.
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Out! Out! Out!
We should of been at least 4 down before we equalised yesterday for me he's absolutely clueless and got to go. Like 90% of these so called professional players we have. I wouldn't even call them pub players their much worse than that!
Clark is one of the worst Defender in the Prem by a mile. It'a a disgrace that he anywhere near the First Team.
We should have been 4-0 down. You are right about that.
Incidentally, who would you have picked from the available players and where would you have played them?
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Way i see it we were lucky. No two ways about it, another day and we'd have been going in at half time 3/4 nil down. However when we did go behind, the heads didn't drop which is a massive plus in itself. Gotta hope the confidence is coming back because it doesn't look hopeful on the injury front - Concerned that the fans don't get on the players back if we start badly in the next home game or i fear it could be another disaster. ..#randygetyourchequebookout.
#instantbanforthishashtagnonesense
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hasn't Randy consistently got his cheque book out? I can't think of another Chairman/Owner who has sunk more money into the club. If there has been, I apologose. i think RL has many shortcomings as a businessman but I don't think you can ever acuse the guy of not backing the club financially. IMO things would improve dramatically with a CEO who combined PF's obvious commercial acumen and marketing skills with an in depth knowlege of how to run a major football club
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hasn't Randy consistently got his cheque book out? I can't think of another Chairman/Owner who has sunk more money into the club. If there has been, I apologose. i think RL has many shortcomings as a businessman but I don't think you can ever acuse the guy of not backing the club financially. IMO things would improve dramatically with a CEO who combined PF's obvious commercial acumen and marketing skills with an in depth knowlege of how to run a major football club
I agree totally. PF has done some very good things off the field, and the devil incarnate, sorry Randy, can hardly be accused of not putting money in. Just been used very, very badly.
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hasn't Randy consistently got his cheque book out? I can't think of another Chairman/Owner who has sunk more money into the club. If there has been, I apologose. i think RL has many shortcomings as a businessman but I don't think you can ever acuse the guy of not backing the club financially. IMO things would improve dramatically with a CEO who combined PF's obvious commercial acumen and marketing skills with an in depth knowlege of how to run a major football club
Abramovich? Or the geezer at Man City?
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Give the bloke a chance, why not. Changing managers every season has got us nowhere and costs a fortune.
I think that's the point. Most people are behind Lambert not because he appears to have a plan or because he appears to know what he's doing or because we're playing good football but simply because the alternative - sacking him and waiting in terrified anticipation of Lerner's next fuck up - is so unpalatable.
Well, this argument is hogwash, Hilts.
Most of the people I sit with and speak to support Lambert because he appears to have a vision of the future, is playing far more progressive football than we've seen for 30 months and appears to be running a meritocratic selection system. These factors necessarily mean that we're taking big risks and - from what he is now saying - the need for more experienced players will be somewhat addressed this month.
I'll stick with the PL project for a while yet before giving up.
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Stability breeds more sucess than constantly chopping and changing managers? Chelsea haven't done too badly when changing managers often, much better than Arsenal. I'm not suggesting we chop Lambert, far from it. I rate him and he still has my support. Just saying..
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Give the bloke a chance, why not. Changing managers every season has got us nowhere and costs a fortune.
I think that's the point. Most people are behind Lambert not because he appears to have a plan or because he appears to know what he's doing or because we're playing good football but simply because the alternative - sacking him and waiting in terrified anticipation of Lerner's next fuck up - is so unpalatable.
Well, this argument is hogwash, Hilts.
Most of the people I sit with and speak to support Lambert because he appears to have a vision of the future, is playing far more progressive football than we've seen for 30 months and appears to be running a meritocratic selection system. These factors necessarily mean that we're taking big risks and - from what he is now saying - the need for more experienced players will be somewhat addressed this month.
I'll stick with the PL project for a while yet before giving up.
It doesn't speak for me either.
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Stability breeds more sucess than constantly chopping and changing managers? Chelsea haven't done too badly when changing managers often, much better than Arsenal. I'm not suggesting we chop Lambert, far from it. I rate him and he still has my support. Just saying..
It doesn't hurt Chelsea because they've always got world class players.
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Stability breeds more sucess than constantly chopping and changing managers? Chelsea haven't done too badly when changing managers often, much better than Arsenal. I'm not suggesting we chop Lambert, far from it. I rate him and he still has my support. Just saying..
It doesn't hurt Chelsea because they've always got world class players.
Yes, that's a point I had in mind too. It's easier for the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal etc to have a steady ship, as they have a mass of class resources to keep results in their favour.
Everton are a good example of 'relative' sucess. It's took them a long time to get as consistant as they are now.
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Out! Out! Out!
We should of been at least 4 down before we equalised yesterday for me he's absolutely clueless and got to go. Like 90% of these so called professional players we have. I wouldn't even call them pub players their much worse than that!
Clark is one of the worst Defender in the Prem by a mile. It'a a disgrace that he anywhere near the First Team.
We should have been 4-0 down. You are right about that.
Incidentally, who would you have picked from the available players and where would you have played them?
Look i really want to see Villa doing well like all of us but when one your best mates is a Tesco Bag supporter it really starts to piss you off after a bit. We didn't tell the club to sell all the best players did we. They wanted the money now we have to endure the misery because it's definitely not fun anymore. These players aren't good enough to wear the Claret and Blue, when it comes down to it they aren't very good footballers either. If we were shit at our jobs how long would it be before we get shown the door.
There's nothing else we can do but moan because going down to VP doesn't do much these days four home wins in the whole of 2012 is disgusting. One of them was a goalkeeping error, so three decent wins in a year how anyone finds this acceptable is beyond me we are ASTON VILLA.
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Swansea always come flying out the blocks at home. We somehow go away with it, maybe it was luck? good. I hope it was. We've hardly had any luck all season.
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Swansea always come flying out the blocks at home. We somehow go away with it, maybe it was luck? good. I hope it was. We've hardly had any luck all season.
Ain't that the bastard truth.
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In, definitely. Too much change in recent years. We hit rock bottom in many ways last season and we're starting all over again. Most of the remaining senior players are a waste of space; PL has identified this and is trying to reshape the squad. The easy thing would be to play them, but he's moving them on. Takes time, it's poor at the moment but it's a long term project. Got to grit our teeth and see it through. Don't see any point getting rid of this manager.
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hasn't Randy consistently got his cheque book out? I can't think of another Chairman/Owner who has sunk more money into the club. If there has been, I apologose. i think RL has many shortcomings as a businessman but I don't think you can ever acuse the guy of not backing the club financially. IMO things would improve dramatically with a CEO who combined PF's obvious commercial acumen and marketing skills with an in depth knowlege of how to run a major football club
Lerner's cheque book has been pretty much closed since MON left.
Last summer 25m spent - money in 2m
Season before 17m spent - money in 38m
Season before 32m spent - money in 27m
There's a few we sold where they don't know the fees like sidwell, but best case scenario is you're looking at a net spend of 7m or 2 and a bit million a season. Add all the wages he's cut dumping the big earners from the MON years and he's comfortably saved more than he's spent.
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As I see it we have a confidence issue right now, which was created by the hammering Chelsea gave us. When we got to half time at 0-0 against Spurs you could see them up it a little and we were on top at the beginning of the 2nd half, but once they scored it was game over as the heads dropped. Same with Wigan where we grew into the game after the early goal, but once the 2nd went in the heads dropped again. Swansea we were poor 1st half, but when we scored we gained some confidence and were the better side in the 2nd. Let's hope the late equaliser doesn't destroy the confidence again.
So the question becomes why are we letting in so mnay goals? In the run we had leading up to the Liverpool game we were very tight at the back. I think we need Vlaar back, but I'd also be platying Baker ahead of Clark right now if he was fit.
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I have faith in Vlaar and baker as a pairing , move Clark into a defensive midfield position and we will be more solid when all fit.
I don't think dunne will play a part so I'd look to get an experienced defender as cover .
We need two new midfielders as well , one creative one and one tough tackling ball winner to help protect the defence more.
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let's put some perspective here.
The vast majority of the the problems have been down to inexperience and naivety, from both the manager and the players.
Looking at our squad at the start of the season (excluding those who were transfer listed) we should have been able to field...
Given
Lowton Vlaar Dunne Bennett
Holman KEA Ireland Nzogbia
Gabby Bent
only 2 of those are youngsters with no experience, the others are either experienced premier league players or are experienced players from Holland who have enough quality to survive in this league.
Take the 9 experienced guys and review their season:
Given - Looked his age in the summer and carried that form into the season - was terrible against Everton
Vlaar - Has looked a decent signing but picked up a fairly innocuous injury that has kept him out for 5-6 weeks
Dunne - Was due back in September but for whatever reason still isn't remotely ready to play
Holman - Has looked good at times and works his balls off, but gives the ball away too much
KEA - Looked exceptional early on but has faded badly, hasn't got to grips with the pace of the game at all
Ireland - Oxygen thief, the more other experienced players have faded the more he's hidden from taking any responsibility
Nzogbia - lots of injuries and when fit still has a tendancy to over play, looked good against Norwich before another injury
Gabby - Works hard, scares defenders but just doesn't look like scoring, then picked up a n injury which is keeping him out
Bent - Hard to judge him, if Ireland and Nzogbia were working he'd look good, lots of injury problems
It reads of poor form and injuries for everyone except Holman who is the only experienced player who's really offered anything in recent weeks, and he's not someone you can build a team around.
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let's put some perspective here.
The vast majority of the the problems have been down to inexperience and naivety, from both the manager and the players.
Looking at our squad at the start of the season (excluding those who were transfer listed) we should have been able to field...
Given
Lowton Vlaar Dunne Bennett
Holman KEA Ireland Nzogbia
Gabby Bent
only 2 of those are youngsters with no experience, the others are either experienced premier league players or are experienced players from Holland who have enough quality to survive in this league.
Take the 9 experienced guys and review their season:
Given - Looked his age in the summer and carried that form into the season - was terrible against Everton
Vlaar - Has looked a decent signing but picked up a fairly innocuous injury that has kept him out for 5-6 weeks
Dunne - Was due back in September but for whatever reason still isn't remotely ready to play
Holman - Has looked good at times and works his balls off, but gives the ball away too much
KEA - Looked exceptional early on but has faded badly, hasn't got to grips with the pace of the game at all
Ireland - Oxygen thief, the more other experienced players have faded the more he's hidden from taking any responsibility
Nzogbia - lots of injuries and when fit still has a tendancy to over play, looked good against Norwich before another injury
Gabby - Works hard, scares defenders but just doesn't look like scoring, then picked up a n injury which is keeping him out
Bent - Hard to judge him, if Ireland and Nzogbia were working he'd look good, lots of injury problems
It reads of poor form and injuries for everyone except Holman who is the only experienced player who's really offered anything in recent weeks, and he's not someone you can build a team around.
Fair assessment Paul, of those 9 though how many do you think are deserving of a regular place when fit ?
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I voted Lambert out, simply because there was no 'not sure' option and I wanted to see how the vote was going.
I am not convinced by Lambert, his policy on the players he has bought and played has not worked out and some of his tactical decisions have been baffling.
After 20 games we are only 1 point from the relegation zone after suffering an awful start and having our worse ever top flight result etc...
Although the optimism around VP is far better than last season and the team does pass the ball better [all be it backwards and sideways quite a lot] I am still not conviced we are improving, the result at Liverpool was good but for large parts of the game we were severly under the boot heal of Liverpool [as was the same against Swansea] had we not got the rub of the green and those teams had been able to score when they were on top we would be 4 points worse off and deep in the relegation zone. I dont think that either of those results was down to any tacticle genius from Lambert but was instead down to some good individual performances [Guzan for one] and some good luck.
I hope Lambert does succeed, I hope he finally desides that having the whole team full of relatively inexperienced youngsters [although at what age do they stop being called youngsters is something I am confused about!!!] is not a good idea and instead tries to balance the team with some experienced heads who can help to bring the other players on and give us some much needed leadership on the pitch.
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let's put some perspective here.
The vast majority of the the problems have been down to inexperience and naivety, from both the manager and the players.
Looking at our squad at the start of the season (excluding those who were transfer listed) we should have been able to field...
Given
Lowton Vlaar Dunne Bennett
Holman KEA Ireland Nzogbia
Gabby Bent
only 2 of those are youngsters with no experience, the others are either experienced premier league players or are experienced players from Holland who have enough quality to survive in this league.
Take the 9 experienced guys and review their season:
Given - Looked his age in the summer and carried that form into the season - was terrible against Everton
Vlaar - Has looked a decent signing but picked up a fairly innocuous injury that has kept him out for 5-6 weeks
Dunne - Was due back in September but for whatever reason still isn't remotely ready to play
Holman - Has looked good at times and works his balls off, but gives the ball away too much
KEA - Looked exceptional early on but has faded badly, hasn't got to grips with the pace of the game at all
Ireland - Oxygen thief, the more other experienced players have faded the more he's hidden from taking any responsibility
Nzogbia - lots of injuries and when fit still has a tendancy to over play, looked good against Norwich before another injury
Gabby - Works hard, scares defenders but just doesn't look like scoring, then picked up a n injury which is keeping him out
Bent - Hard to judge him, if Ireland and Nzogbia were working he'd look good, lots of injury problems
It reads of poor form and injuries for everyone except Holman who is the only experienced player who's really offered anything in recent weeks, and he's not someone you can build a team around.
Pretty much exactly my thoughts.
There is experience in this squad, but for one reason or another those players either aren't playing or are out of form. When you also add in Makoun, Warnock and Hutton, we're also paying a lot in wages and getting very little back for it.
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let's put some perspective here.
The vast majority of the the problems have been down to inexperience and naivety, from both the manager and the players.
Looking at our squad at the start of the season (excluding those who were transfer listed) we should have been able to field...
Given
Lowton Vlaar Dunne Bennett
Holman KEA Ireland Nzogbia
Gabby Bent
only 2 of those are youngsters with no experience, the others are either experienced premier league players or are experienced players from Holland who have enough quality to survive in this league.
Take the 9 experienced guys and review their season:
Given - Looked his age in the summer and carried that form into the season - was terrible against Everton
Vlaar - Has looked a decent signing but picked up a fairly innocuous injury that has kept him out for 5-6 weeks
Dunne - Was due back in September but for whatever reason still isn't remotely ready to play
Holman - Has looked good at times and works his balls off, but gives the ball away too much
KEA - Looked exceptional early on but has faded badly, hasn't got to grips with the pace of the game at all
Ireland - Oxygen thief, the more other experienced players have faded the more he's hidden from taking any responsibility
Nzogbia - lots of injuries and when fit still has a tendancy to over play, looked good against Norwich before another injury
Gabby - Works hard, scares defenders but just doesn't look like scoring, then picked up a n injury which is keeping him out
Bent - Hard to judge him, if Ireland and Nzogbia were working he'd look good, lots of injury problems
It reads of poor form and injuries for everyone except Holman who is the only experienced player who's really offered anything in recent weeks, and he's not someone you can build a team around.
Petrov getting ill has hit us bad. Out of those experienced players,it doesn't strike you as a team full of leaders does it. Probably Vlaar is the only one. Maybe Given could have influenced the kids in front of him more than Brad but as you say he's been poor.
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That's not really the point, the point is, the experience we so badly need should be there to an extent but for issues of either injury, form or attitude it's not showing and the entire season is resting on the shoulders of youngsters.
Take 5-6 of that list and replace them with players with similar experience who don't have problems and we'd be comfortably mid table.
The thing is we're seeing lots of reports that various young kids aren't good enough and should be sold when the reality is that, if the older players were performing we'd only be seeing cameos of the kids and they'd be good enough for that. For the 3rd year in a row the senior players are letting us down and kids are taking far too much of the blame.
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Although the optimism around VP is far better than last season and the team does pass the ball better [all be it backwards and sideways quite a lot] I am still not conviced we are improving, the result at Liverpool was good but for large parts of the game we were severly under the boot heal of Liverpool [as was the same against Swansea] had we not got the rub of the green and those teams had been able to score when they were on top we would be 4 points worse off and deep in the relegation zone. I dont think that either of those results was down to any tacticle genius from Lambert but was instead down to some good individual performances [Guzan for one] and some good luck.
If you say that, then you could also point to games like Man Utd at home and Newcastle away where we didn't get what we deserved and see where an extra 5 points would take us!
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That's not really the point, the point is, the experience we so badly need should be there to an extent but for issues of either injury, form or attitude it's not showing and the entire season is resting on the shoulders of youngsters.
Take 5-6 of that list and replace them with players with similar experience who don't have problems and we'd be comfortably mid table.
The thing is we're seeing lots of reports that various young kids aren't good enough and should be sold when the reality is that, if the older players were performing we'd only be seeing cameos of the kids and they'd be good enough for that. For the 3rd year in a row the senior players are letting us down and kids are taking far too much of the blame.
aye but its the 3rd year in a row bit where lambert is culpable. Anyone on here in the summer could have told him half of those players don't perform or can't anymore, so he probably should have shipped them out rather than giving them yet another chance to come good
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let's put some perspective here.
The vast majority of the the problems have been down to inexperience and naivety, from both the manager and the players.
Looking at our squad at the start of the season (excluding those who were transfer listed) we should have been able to field...
Given
Lowton Vlaar Dunne Bennett
Holman KEA Ireland Nzogbia
Gabby Bent
only 2 of those are youngsters with no experience, the others are either experienced premier league players or are experienced players from Holland who have enough quality to survive in this league.
Take the 9 experienced guys and review their season:
Given - Looked his age in the summer and carried that form into the season - was terrible against Everton
Vlaar - Has looked a decent signing but picked up a fairly innocuous injury that has kept him out for 5-6 weeks
Dunne - Was due back in September but for whatever reason still isn't remotely ready to play
Holman - Has looked good at times and works his balls off, but gives the ball away too much
KEA - Looked exceptional early on but has faded badly, hasn't got to grips with the pace of the game at all
Ireland - Oxygen thief, the more other experienced players have faded the more he's hidden from taking any responsibility
Nzogbia - lots of injuries and when fit still has a tendancy to over play, looked good against Norwich before another injury
Gabby - Works hard, scares defenders but just doesn't look like scoring, then picked up a n injury which is keeping him out
Bent - Hard to judge him, if Ireland and Nzogbia were working he'd look good, lots of injury problems
It reads of poor form and injuries for everyone except Holman who is the only experienced player who's really offered anything in recent weeks, and he's not someone you can build a team around.
Excellent post.
Lambert isn't stupid, he knows as well as everyone else that you have to temper youth with experience. We have plenty of the latter, but sadly they either haven't stepped up to the plate or they're out through injury.
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Unless there is a buyer you can't always shift the players you want. Take Hutton for example, he couldn't have made it plainer he was available in the summer if he'd stuck a for sale sign on him and parked him on an estate like a clapped out car.
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That's not really the point, the point is, the experience we so badly need should be there to an extent but for issues of either injury, form or attitude it's not showing and the entire season is resting on the shoulders of youngsters.
Take 5-6 of that list and replace them with players with similar experience who don't have problems and we'd be comfortably mid table.
The thing is we're seeing lots of reports that various young kids aren't good enough and should be sold when the reality is that, if the older players were performing we'd only be seeing cameos of the kids and they'd be good enough for that. For the 3rd year in a row the senior players are letting us down and kids are taking far too much of the blame.
aye but its the 3rd year in a row bit where lambert is culpable. Anyone on here in the summer could have told him half of those players don't perform or can't anymore, so he probably should have shipped them out rather than giving them yet another chance to come good
It is very possible that he tried/wanted to, but that we couldn't shift them due to the wages.
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That's not really the point, the point is, the experience we so badly need should be there to an extent but for issues of either injury, form or attitude it's not showing and the entire season is resting on the shoulders of youngsters.
Take 5-6 of that list and replace them with players with similar experience who don't have problems and we'd be comfortably mid table.
The thing is we're seeing lots of reports that various young kids aren't good enough and should be sold when the reality is that, if the older players were performing we'd only be seeing cameos of the kids and they'd be good enough for that. For the 3rd year in a row the senior players are letting us down and kids are taking far too much of the blame.
aye but its the 3rd year in a row bit where lambert is culpable. Anyone on here in the summer could have told him half of those players don't perform or can't anymore, so he probably should have shipped them out rather than giving them yet another chance to come good
It is very possible that he tried/wanted to, but that we couldn't shift them due to the wages.
True.
It's easy to overlook this.
It's not just a case of telling a player he's not wanted, then finding a buyer. If the player is on a good deal - and good deals were a feature of the MON years, it seems - then he's quite possibly going to do what NRC or Heskey did, and sit on his arse taking the wage till his contract expires.
It's like Hutton at Forest. Take out the wage factor and he'd probably like the chance to play for McLeish there. Add in the factor that he'll have a couple of years left on his deal, probably around 40k a week, which isn't money he'll get at Forest, and he'll be a lot less keen to move on.
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Hutton, Warnock he clearly tried to sell.
Holman, KEA and Vlaar are new signings so irrelevent, leaving 6.
Given earns too much and has too long a contract to be easy to get rid of, we're stuck with him unless he decides he needs to play and is willing to take a pay cut for it.
Dunne was injured and still is, no way anyone would've bought him.
Ireland had amazingly just got the player of the season award, he'd have expected him to kick on not regress.
Nzogbia had only had a year, under a defensive manager, he deserved a chance to play in a forward thinking side.
Gabby and Bent I can't imagine many wanted to sell either of them.
so it's not as simple as , "they've all been shit for ages so he should've replaced them". The ones who deserved to go and could be gotten rid of have either gone or have "for sale, any reasonable offers" stickers on them.
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We must back him with bith support and money , there is no point in changing now I believe we are going in the right direction just hard to see it when these loses are hurting us so much.
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well yes so you buy a replacement and stick them in the stiffs. If he really went to the interview and told Lerner "yes i can make Ireland a world beater" then he deserves all he gets. Likewise if he just blindly agreed to Lerner's/faulkner ideas. We had one yes-man last year and that got us nowhere
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Out! Out! Out!
We should of been at least 4 down before we equalised yesterday for me he's absolutely clueless and got to go. Like 90% of these so called professional players we have. I wouldn't even call them pub players their much worse than that!
Clark is one of the worst Defender in the Prem by a mile. It'a a disgrace that he anywhere near the First Team.
We should have been 4-0 down. You are right about that.
Incidentally, who would you have picked from the available players and where would you have played them?
Look i really want to see Villa doing well like all of us but when one your best mates is a Tesco Bag supporter it really starts to piss you off after a bit. We didn't tell the club to sell all the best players did we. They wanted the money now we have to endure the misery because it's definitely not fun anymore. These players aren't good enough to wear the Claret and Blue, when it comes down to it they aren't very good footballers either. If we were shit at our jobs how long would it be before we get shown the door.
There's nothing else we can do but moan because going down to VP doesn't do much these days four home wins in the whole of 2012 is disgusting. One of them was a goalkeeping error, so three decent wins in a year how anyone finds this acceptable is beyond me we are ASTON VILLA.
Very frustrating it is. You can get some comfort slowly watching the Tesco Bags slip down the league. For anyone who wasn't sure about them being c***s, there can be no doubt in their minds now.
I don't think anybody finds the current situation acceptable; some are just being a bit more tolerant and hopeful that the right thing will be done in January. If it isn't then expect fireworks. Those that are experienced enough to know better but are performing badly deserve some stick. Even the younger players will only get so much more time before they come in for it. Regarding performing badly and getting the sack, footballers and football managers are in a different world. They aren't in a job but an investment. Managers can look after their investment by getting sacked. Players can get injured and swan around in their fancy cars all day on £50k a week or whatever.
You could start feeling sorry for them but they would stick two fingers up to you as they breezed by in their top of the range car.
I have times when I think that I hate the whole thing and why should they have my money but just keep going and enjoying the day out. It is a disease and one that has cost me a lot of money. If we won the league every year through having an owner throwing multi millions at it, then the ground would be full of twats, it would get boring and I would probably stop going.
Whether any of my ramble has any relevance to your post, I have no idea. I just started and now I have finished.
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To be fair coming in and changing our complete defence was pretty radical and harping on about how he should have gone even further in the space of half a season is a bit silly.
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Out! Out! Out!
We should of been at least 4 down before we equalised yesterday for me he's absolutely clueless and got to go. Like 90% of these so called professional players we have. I wouldn't even call them pub players their much worse than that!
Clark is one of the worst Defender in the Prem by a mile. It'a a disgrace that he anywhere near the First Team.
We should have been 4-0 down. You are right about that.
Incidentally, who would you have picked from the available players and where would you have played them?
Look i really want to see Villa doing well like all of us but when one your best mates is a Tesco Bag supporter it really starts to piss you off after a bit. We didn't tell the club to sell all the best players did we. They wanted the money now we have to endure the misery because it's definitely not fun anymore. These players aren't good enough to wear the Claret and Blue, when it comes down to it they aren't very good footballers either. If we were shit at our jobs how long would it be before we get shown the door.
There's nothing else we can do but moan because going down to VP doesn't do much these days four home wins in the whole of 2012 is disgusting. One of them was a goalkeeping error, so three decent wins in a year how anyone finds this acceptable is beyond me we are ASTON VILLA.
So how exactly is any of that Lambert's fault? And how would sacking him fix it?
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Out! Out! Out!
We should of been at least 4 down before we equalised yesterday for me he's absolutely clueless and got to go. Like 90% of these so called professional players we have. I wouldn't even call them pub players their much worse than that!
Clark is one of the worst Defender in the Prem by a mile. It'a a disgrace that he anywhere near the First Team.
We should have been 4-0 down. You are right about that.
Incidentally, who would you have picked from the available players and where would you have played them?
Look i really want to see Villa doing well like all of us but when one your best mates is a Tesco Bag supporter it really starts to piss you off after a bit. We didn't tell the club to sell all the best players did we. They wanted the money now we have to endure the misery because it's definitely not fun anymore. These players aren't good enough to wear the Claret and Blue, when it comes down to it they aren't very good footballers either. If we were shit at our jobs how long would it be before we get shown the door.
There's nothing else we can do but moan because going down to VP doesn't do much these days four home wins in the whole of 2012 is disgusting. One of them was a goalkeeping error, so three decent wins in a year how anyone finds this acceptable is beyond me we are ASTON VILLA.
So how exactly is any of that Lambert's fault? And how would sacking him fix it?
Also intrigued to hear that games we win through a goalkeeper error aren't proper wins.
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Lamberts transfer dealings have in the main been very encouraging which gives hope he may have a couple more gems up his sleeve, of the players he inherited few have really performed well for him and he now should have an idea who needs to go in the summer if not before.
I have been worried by some of his selections recently but we all disagree with certain team selections- tactically I feel he should have shut up shop at Chelsea when 3-0 down rather than continue to play so open and leave us exposed - he was my choice from day one and I think he must be persevered with , although that's not to say he hasn't made mistakes, and I can see why some are questioning him.
Everything is not a case of black or white regarding lambert or Lerner , both have done good things and both have made mistakes to varying degrees.
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At times Lambert has shown his inexperience.
Picking a 532 against chelsea was always a bad idea given they play a 4231 and push the widemen very high up the pitch. If we'd had more possession it'd have been ok but that wasn't really ever likely to be the case, we should've lined up with a similar formation to them.
Failing to arrange a marker/strategy for Bale once we went to a back 4 against spurs was just as damaging.
On top of those there have been some strange substitutions as well.
However, all that said the main issue has been senior players not doing what they're there for and providing us with a solid, consistent platform to build on.
He needs time to get those players out of the squad and replace them with players with the right kind of experience, letting him go would just lead to another manager thinking maybe Ireland/Nzogbia/etc can get back to being the player they're capable of being and we'll have another 6 months of them strolling around like they don't give a shit. Back Lambert now and in the summer, if we're still shit this time next year then reopen this thread and a lot more people will vote out but for now we need to have a bit of stability whilst the last few bad apples are cleared out.
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I still think Lambert is the way forward - my only real concern dates back to when we got him & a few Norwich fans pointed out that the team was a bit jekyll & hyde, great one week and getting hammered the next - makes me wonder whether he needs additional coaching assistance, particularly in defensive organisation which seems a little awry, great determination to block etc but breached far too easily at times - from memory Karsa is not a hands on coach? which leaves it all to Culverhouse and Lambert.
Just a thought?
Hope we see new & proven faces before we go back into Prem action - games until the League Cup final weekend will shape our season, 1 point from Wigan & Swansea is disappointing - needs much, much better from Southampton, Baggies, Newcastle, Everton & West Ham
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At times Lambert has shown his inexperience.
Picking a 532 against chelsea was always a bad idea given they play a 4231 and push the widemen very high up the pitch. If we'd had more possession it'd have been ok but that wasn't really ever likely to be the case, we should've lined up with a similar formation to them.
Failing to arrange a marker/strategy for Bale once we went to a back 4 against spurs was just as damaging.
On top of those there have been some strange substitutions as well.
However, all that said the main issue has been senior players not doing what they're there for and providing us with a solid, consistent platform to build on.
He needs time to get those players out of the squad and replace them with players with the right kind of experience, letting him go would just lead to another manager thinking maybe Ireland/Nzogbia/etc can get back to being the player they're capable of being and we'll have another 6 months of them strolling around like they don't give a shit. Back Lambert now and in the summer, if we're still shit this time next year then reopen this thread and a lot more people will vote out but for now we need to have a bit of stability whilst the last few bad apples are cleared out.
You're right Paul and the highlighted sentence is the killer.
From what I've seen and heard from the man - and from what we've seen at Norwich - I trust Lambert to get it right.
I will be somewhat dumfounded if he hasn't brought some experience into MF (and possibly defence) by the end of this month but if he wants to secure one or two other hi-po youngsters as well, fine.
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Out! Out! Out!
We should of been at least 4 down before we equalised yesterday for me he's absolutely clueless and got to go. Like 90% of these so called professional players we have. I wouldn't even call them pub players their much worse than that!
Clark is one of the worst Defender in the Prem by a mile. It'a a disgrace that he anywhere near the First Team.
We should have been 4-0 down. You are right about that.
Incidentally, who would you have picked from the available players and where would you have played them?
Look i really want to see Villa doing well like all of us but when one your best mates is a Tesco Bag supporter it really starts to piss you off after a bit. We didn't tell the club to sell all the best players did we. They wanted the money now we have to endure the misery because it's definitely not fun anymore. These players aren't good enough to wear the Claret and Blue, when it comes down to it they aren't very good footballers either. If we were shit at our jobs how long would it be before we get shown the door.
There's nothing else we can do but moan because going down to VP doesn't do much these days four home wins in the whole of 2012 is disgusting. One of them was a goalkeeping error, so three decent wins in a year how anyone finds this acceptable is beyond me we are ASTON VILLA.
So how exactly is any of that Lambert's fault? And how would sacking him fix it?
Also intrigued to hear that games we win through a goalkeeper error aren't proper wins.
There is an element of panic in a lot of posts. By the end of this month it will all have calmed down or we will all be flapping.
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Out! Out! Out!
We should of been at least 4 down before we equalised yesterday for me he's absolutely clueless and got to go. Like 90% of these so called professional players we have. I wouldn't even call them pub players their much worse than that!
Clark is one of the worst Defender in the Prem by a mile. It'a a disgrace that he anywhere near the First Team.
We should have been 4-0 down. You are right about that.
Incidentally, who would you have picked from the available players and where would you have played them?
Look i really want to see Villa doing well like all of us but when one your best mates is a Tesco Bag supporter it really starts to piss you off after a bit. We didn't tell the club to sell all the best players did we. They wanted the money now we have to endure the misery because it's definitely not fun anymore. These players aren't good enough to wear the Claret and Blue, when it comes down to it they aren't very good footballers either. If we were shit at our jobs how long would it be before we get shown the door.
There's nothing else we can do but moan because going down to VP doesn't do much these days four home wins in the whole of 2012 is disgusting. One of them was a goalkeeping error, so three decent wins in a year how anyone finds this acceptable is beyond me we are ASTON VILLA.
So how exactly is any of that Lambert's fault? And how would sacking him fix it?
Also intrigued to hear that games we win through a goalkeeper error aren't proper wins.
There is an element of panic in a lot of posts. By the end of this month it will all have calmed down or we will all be flapping.
I was thinking yesterday, this month is actually quite good for us.
We've just managed to get a point where we expected none, and to have maybe restored a bit of confidence. We now have a home FAC match against a lower league side, then a CC SF away at a League Two side.
Win those two, as we should - even with our weaknesses - and we should have restored a lot of the confidence we lost over xmas in time to play Southampton at home, another eminently winnable match.
Before anyone weighs in with something along the lines of "yeah, Wigan was winnable, and look how that panned out", I know, I know, but there's no point dwelling on the past now.
We potentially don't actually have that many league games over the next few weeks. That, with the window open, and key players nearing a return, all means we're quite lucky with the timings of things at the moment.
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Don't see the point in getting rid of him now, there are other factors involved, but he needs to turn things round this month. If we get relegated then his position to me, despite the restrictions he has been put under, would make his position quite untenable .
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I was thinking how much a winter break would have helped us over Christmas the other day with all the players out, but then looked at the fixtures and thought, get through Swansea and we will be ok as there is breathing space finally. If we can negotiate Bradford professionally it would be a huge boost to make a final this season and really deserve to be there.
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hasn't Randy consistently got his cheque book out? I can't think of another Chairman/Owner who has sunk more money into the club. If there has been, I apologose. i think RL has many shortcomings as a businessman but I don't think you can ever acuse the guy of not backing the club financially. IMO things would improve dramatically with a CEO who combined PF's obvious commercial acumen and marketing skills with an in depth knowlege of how to run a major football club
Lerner's cheque book has been pretty much closed since MON left.
Last summer 25m spent - money in 2m
Season before 17m spent - money in 38m
Season before 32m spent - money in 27m
There's a few we sold where they don't know the fees like sidwell, but best case scenario is you're looking at a net spend of 7m or 2 and a bit million a season. Add all the wages he's cut dumping the big earners from the MON years and he's comfortably saved more than he's spent.
It's not like Randy is handing the cash over and waving a fond farewell to it, it's a loan that will be repaid.
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This is a cracking thread. It's almost worth Villa being so bad to read some of these posts.
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Technically a large percentage of the money is in the form of loan notes that are to be repaid but given that we aren't repaying them currently (and didn't even pay interest on them at least 1 of the seasons) the likelihood is that they will actually just sit as an additional burden that's bundled into the sale price of the club if he decides to walk away. It's also worth noting that the loan notes only cover around half of the money he's put in, with the rest being money he's given to the club.
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Lambert in.
This season just needs to be written off together, it's now about avoiding getting sucked into 18th place and getting a full-strength squad back in place.
If Lambert doesn't need extra bodies, I trust him- all the way.
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Lamberts transfer dealings have in the main been very encouraging
I agree. The only one he looks to have fluffed is KEA, and even he might end up being OK, given time. There's no arguing that Westwood and Lowton are just the sort of signings the club needs to make for the longer term, Bennett looks like he will take longer to make the grade but you can see the potential, and let's not forget Benteke, whose value has surely doubled in the mere months since he joined. He also brought Guzan back, with stunning results. Vlaar is very solid and has slotted in really well, so much so that we have missed him enormously in recent games. Nope, I trust this man with Randy's cash, no worries.
Frankly, if we hadn't had such fucking awful luck with injuries, this thread wouldn't even have been started.
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Lamberts transfer dealings have in the main been very encouraging
I agree. The only one he looks to have fluffed is KEA, and even he might end up being OK, given time. There's no arguing that Westwood and Lowton are just the sort of signings the club needs to make for the longer term, Bennett looks like he will take longer to make the grade but you can see the potential, and let's not forget Benteke, whose value has surely doubled in the mere months since he joined. He also brought Guzan back, with stunning results. Vlaar is very solid and has slotted in really well, so much so that we have missed him enormously in recent games. Nope, I trust this man with Randy's cash, no worries.
Frankly, if we hadn't had such fucking awful luck with injuries, this thread wouldn't even have been started.
Which of the long term injured was he regulary playing?
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Lamberts transfer dealings have in the main been very encouraging
I agree. The only one he looks to have fluffed is KEA, and even he might end up being OK, given time. There's no arguing that Westwood and Lowton are just the sort of signings the club needs to make for the longer term, Bennett looks like he will take longer to make the grade but you can see the potential, and let's not forget Benteke, whose value has surely doubled in the mere months since he joined. He also brought Guzan back, with stunning results. Vlaar is very solid and has slotted in really well, so much so that we have missed him enormously in recent games. Nope, I trust this man with Randy's cash, no worries.
Frankly, if we hadn't had such fucking awful luck with injuries, this thread wouldn't even have been started.
Which of the long term injured was he regulary playing?
And how were we doing before the injuries kicked in?
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Lamberts transfer dealings have in the main been very encouraging
I agree. The only one he looks to have fluffed is KEA, and even he might end up being OK, given time. There's no arguing that Westwood and Lowton are just the sort of signings the club needs to make for the longer term, Bennett looks like he will take longer to make the grade but you can see the potential, and let's not forget Benteke, whose value has surely doubled in the mere months since he joined. He also brought Guzan back, with stunning results. Vlaar is very solid and has slotted in really well, so much so that we have missed him enormously in recent games. Nope, I trust this man with Randy's cash, no worries.
Frankly, if we hadn't had such fucking awful luck with injuries, this thread wouldn't even have been started.
Which of the long term injured was he regulary playing?
And how were we doing before the inuries kicked in?
We've been shit all season. Lots of delusion on here.
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Lamberts transfer dealings have in the main been very encouraging
I agree. The only one he looks to have fluffed is KEA, and even he might end up being OK, given time. There's no arguing that Westwood and Lowton are just the sort of signings the club needs to make for the longer term, Bennett looks like he will take longer to make the grade but you can see the potential, and let's not forget Benteke, whose value has surely doubled in the mere months since he joined. He also brought Guzan back, with stunning results. Vlaar is very solid and has slotted in really well, so much so that we have missed him enormously in recent games. Nope, I trust this man with Randy's cash, no worries.
Frankly, if we hadn't had such fucking awful luck with injuries, this thread wouldn't even have been started.
Which of the long term injured was he regulary playing?
Not many, but losing Baker and Vlaar left us with only 1 fit centre half which would stifle any team. Also to lose both left backs (Bennett and Stevens) at the same time was more than unfortunate, as was losing all 4 of Benteke's possible partners/suppliers/back up in Bent, Gabby, Weimann and N'Zog, leaving Benteke isolated and meaning he wasn't able to be rested at all during a busy festive schedule, despite obviously needing a break.
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We've been shit all season. Lots of delusion on here.
Swansea at home, Newcastle away, Arse at home, 60 mins of the Manure match, Liverpool, Norwich and Citeh in the cup. Or were they all delusuions?
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Lamberts transfer dealings have in the main been very encouraging
I agree. The only one he looks to have fluffed is KEA, and even he might end up being OK, given time. There's no arguing that Westwood and Lowton are just the sort of signings the club needs to make for the longer term, Bennett looks like he will take longer to make the grade but you can see the potential, and let's not forget Benteke, whose value has surely doubled in the mere months since he joined. He also brought Guzan back, with stunning results. Vlaar is very solid and has slotted in really well, so much so that we have missed him enormously in recent games. Nope, I trust this man with Randy's cash, no worries.
Frankly, if we hadn't had such fucking awful luck with injuries, this thread wouldn't even have been started.
Which of the long term injured was he regulary playing?
And how were we doing before the inuries kicked in?
We've been shit all season. Lots of delusion on here.
No, we haven't, but I very much doubt you will acknowledge any of the games anyone could mention where we've played quite well.
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Lamberts transfer dealings have in the main been very encouraging
I agree. The only one he looks to have fluffed is KEA, and even he might end up being OK, given time. There's no arguing that Westwood and Lowton are just the sort of signings the club needs to make for the longer term, Bennett looks like he will take longer to make the grade but you can see the potential, and let's not forget Benteke, whose value has surely doubled in the mere months since he joined. He also brought Guzan back, with stunning results. Vlaar is very solid and has slotted in really well, so much so that we have missed him enormously in recent games. Nope, I trust this man with Randy's cash, no worries.
Frankly, if we hadn't had such fucking awful luck with injuries, this thread wouldn't even have been started.
Which of the long term injured was he regulary playing?
Not many, but losing Baker and Vlaar left us with only 1 fit centre half which would stifle any team. Also to lose both left backs (Bennett and Stevens) at the same time was more than unfortunate, as was losing all 4 of Benteke's possible partners/suppliers/back up in Bent, Gabby, Weimann and N'Zog, leaving Benteke isolated and meaning he wasn't able to be rested at all during a busy festive schedule, despite obviously needing a break.
Needing a break, Jesus how many games are players these days able to play before they break down and need a break?
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We've been shit all season. Lots of delusion on here.
Swansea at home, Newcastle away, Arse at home, 60 mins of the Manure match, Liverpool, Norwich and Citeh in the cup. Or were they all delusuions?
Thats four out of 20 league matches, and apart from the Swansea game at home and possible the Newcastle match we had very poor periods in all the other games.
Swansea and Arsenal at home are one of the only league games where I would say we had a good 90 mins
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Needing a break, Jesus how many games are players these days able to play before they break down and need a break?
Comparing players now to those of days gone by is like comparing thoroughbred racehorses to carthorses. Playing too many games might deprive them of 1 or 2% of their sharpness. You and I wouldn't notice that but it's the difference between making a last-ditch tackle and the goal we let in yesterday.
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Lamberts transfer dealings have in the main been very encouraging
I agree. The only one he looks to have fluffed is KEA, and even he might end up being OK, given time. There's no arguing that Westwood and Lowton are just the sort of signings the club needs to make for the longer term, Bennett looks like he will take longer to make the grade but you can see the potential, and let's not forget Benteke, whose value has surely doubled in the mere months since he joined. He also brought Guzan back, with stunning results. Vlaar is very solid and has slotted in really well, so much so that we have missed him enormously in recent games. Nope, I trust this man with Randy's cash, no worries.
Frankly, if we hadn't had such fucking awful luck with injuries, this thread wouldn't even have been started.
Which of the long term injured was he regulary playing?
Not many, but losing Baker and Vlaar left us with only 1 fit centre half which would stifle any team. Also to lose both left backs (Bennett and Stevens) at the same time was more than unfortunate, as was losing all 4 of Benteke's possible partners/suppliers/back up in Bent, Gabby, Weimann and N'Zog, leaving Benteke isolated and meaning he wasn't able to be rested at all during a busy festive schedule, despite obviously needing a break.
Needing a break, Jesus how many games are players these days able to play before they break down and need a break?
Badly phrased, but can you imagine a top 6 team signing a 21 yr old new to this league and making him play almost every minute of every domestic match as a lone striker, despite him also being a regular for the national side. There is no way you will get an optimum level of performance from him by doing this imo and I don't think we would have if the other forwards had been fit over the last couple of months. The Baggies play either Long or Lukaku, who generally run themselves into the ground by the 60 minute mark and they get swapped over, just like many European teams do in the Champs league.
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Needing a break, Jesus how many games are players these days able to play before they break down and need a break?
Comparing players now to those of days gone by is like comparing thoroughbred racehorses to carthorses. Playing too many games might deprive them of 1 or 2% of their sharpness. You and I wouldn't notice that but it's the difference between making a last-ditch tackle and the goal we let in yesterday.
I could go with that if the player was getting on a bit [in relative terms 25+] but most of our team as is being mentioned is the youngest we have ever fielded.
Should we not gain the energy and determination as the possitive side to the lack of experience on the negative side?
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Gabby and Vlaar, Dunne we have no way of knowing if he'd have played or not.
Bent was a bit part player to an extent but he never appeared to be fully fit anyway and lots of comments were made when he was playing about him not looking sharp enough. Nzogbia hasn't been great but he came on vs Norwich and showed what he can offer, then got injured and has been out since, which is just bad luck.
Having both Vlaar and Dunne out is the key thing, we have 2 experienced central defenders amongst a defensive unit that is very inexperienced at this level, having 1 not been available all season and the other out for what is currently 6-7weeks is a hammer blow however you look at it.
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Gabby and Vlaar, Dunne we have no way of knowing if he'd have played or not.
Bent was a bit part player to an extent but he never appeared to be fully fit anyway and lots of comments were made when he was playing about him not looking sharp enough. Nzogbia hasn't been great but he came on vs Norwich and showed what he can offer, then got injured and has been out since, which is just bad luck.
Having both Vlaar and Dunne out is the key thing, we have 2 experienced central defenders amongst a defensive unit that is very inexperienced at this level, having 1 not been available all season and the other out for what is currently 6-7weeks is a hammer blow however you look at it.
Dunne was injured pre season so the error in not getting in more 'experienced' cover is the managers. This error he may have gotten away with but it has been magnified by the other areas where were are inexperienced, which has resulted in our overal performances being extremely patchy and ranging from the great [for periods in games] to bloody awful
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Lamberts transfer dealings have in the main been very encouraging
I agree. The only one he looks to have fluffed is KEA, and even he might end up being OK, given time. There's no arguing that Westwood and Lowton are just the sort of signings the club needs to make for the longer term, Bennett looks like he will take longer to make the grade but you can see the potential, and let's not forget Benteke, whose value has surely doubled in the mere months since he joined. He also brought Guzan back, with stunning results. Vlaar is very solid and has slotted in really well, so much so that we have missed him enormously in recent games. Nope, I trust this man with Randy's cash, no worries.
Frankly, if we hadn't had such fucking awful luck with injuries, this thread wouldn't even have been started.
Which of the long term injured was he regulary playing?
Not many, but losing Baker and Vlaar left us with only 1 fit centre half which would stifle any team. Also to lose both left backs (Bennett and Stevens) at the same time was more than unfortunate, as was losing all 4 of Benteke's possible partners/suppliers/back up in Bent, Gabby, Weimann and N'Zog, leaving Benteke isolated and meaning he wasn't able to be rested at all during a busy festive schedule, despite obviously needing a break.
Needing a break, Jesus how many games are players these days able to play before they break down and need a break?
It's why clubs have squads, they understand that performances will suffer if the players aren't properly looked after. That's why the most successful clubs have the deepest squads, so that they can rotate players and try to ensure that the better players are as fresh as possible for the more important games. I thought everyone understood this.
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Exactly Mark, we were weak in defence anyway, and so to effectively just swap Collins for Vlaar and sign a couple of kids at full back was a high risk to take, and one that has come back to bite Lambert on the arse.
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Gabby and Vlaar, Dunne we have no way of knowing if he'd have played or not.
Bent was a bit part player to an extent but he never appeared to be fully fit anyway and lots of comments were made when he was playing about him not looking sharp enough. Nzogbia hasn't been great but he came on vs Norwich and showed what he can offer, then got injured and has been out since, which is just bad luck.
Having both Vlaar and Dunne out is the key thing, we have 2 experienced central defenders amongst a defensive unit that is very inexperienced at this level, having 1 not been available all season and the other out for what is currently 6-7weeks is a hammer blow however you look at it.
Dunne was injured pre season so the error in not getting in more 'experienced' cover is the managers. This error he may have gotten away with but it has been magnified by the other areas where were are inexperienced, which has resulted in our overal performances being extremely patchy and ranging from the great [for periods in games] to bloody awful
Hasn't Dunne been ruled out for much longer than expected, though?
If Lambert thought'd he'd be out a few weeks at most, then I can see why he'd not bother getting a "replacement" in
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Lamberts transfer dealings have in the main been very encouraging
I agree. The only one he looks to have fluffed is KEA, and even he might end up being OK, given time. There's no arguing that Westwood and Lowton are just the sort of signings the club needs to make for the longer term, Bennett looks like he will take longer to make the grade but you can see the potential, and let's not forget Benteke, whose value has surely doubled in the mere months since he joined. He also brought Guzan back, with stunning results. Vlaar is very solid and has slotted in really well, so much so that we have missed him enormously in recent games. Nope, I trust this man with Randy's cash, no worries.
Frankly, if we hadn't had such fucking awful luck with injuries, this thread wouldn't even have been started.
Which of the long term injured was he regulary playing?
Not many, but losing Baker and Vlaar left us with only 1 fit centre half which would stifle any team. Also to lose both left backs (Bennett and Stevens) at the same time was more than unfortunate, as was losing all 4 of Benteke's possible partners/suppliers/back up in Bent, Gabby, Weimann and N'Zog, leaving Benteke isolated and meaning he wasn't able to be rested at all during a busy festive schedule, despite obviously needing a break.
Needing a break, Jesus how many games are players these days able to play before they break down and need a break?
So why does Fergie put Van Persie (to name just one) on the bench? To keep him fresh, that's why - something we have been unable to do.
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Exactly Mark, we were weak in defence anyway, and so to effectively just swap Collins for Vlaar and sign a couple of kids at full back was a high risk to take, and one that has come back to bite Lambert on the arse.
He probably thought it was less of a risk with Dunne due back by Mid Sept at the time. But it has come back to bite him.
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We've been shit all season. Lots of delusion on here.
Swansea at home, Newcastle away, Arse at home, 60 mins of the Manure match, Liverpool, Norwich and Citeh in the cup. Or were they all delusuions?
Not talking about the League Cup. I'm talking about the league. It's our bread and butter and it matters the most. By the way, no team however poor they are goes through a season without a few good performances, and we're no different. For every Swansea game I could give you an Everton, Chelsea, Wigan or a list of other appalling performances. Even when we beat Reading it was an absolutely awful display.
Stop dreaming - this team is heading towards the drop unless we invest this month in PL experience.
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Gabby and Vlaar, Dunne we have no way of knowing if he'd have played or not.
Bent was a bit part player to an extent but he never appeared to be fully fit anyway and lots of comments were made when he was playing about him not looking sharp enough. Nzogbia hasn't been great but he came on vs Norwich and showed what he can offer, then got injured and has been out since, which is just bad luck.
Having both Vlaar and Dunne out is the key thing, we have 2 experienced central defenders amongst a defensive unit that is very inexperienced at this level, having 1 not been available all season and the other out for what is currently 6-7weeks is a hammer blow however you look at it.
Dunne was injured pre season so the error in not getting in more 'experienced' cover is the managers. This error he may have gotten away with but it has been magnified by the other areas where were are inexperienced, which has resulted in our overal performances being extremely patchy and ranging from the great [for periods in games] to bloody awful
Hasn't Dunne been ruled out for much longer than expected, though?
If Lambert thought'd he'd be out a few weeks at most, then I can see why he'd not bother getting a "replacement" in
He was expected to be out for a couple of months, which when you then add on the resulting time to get match fit etc, made the choice not to get another defender very risky. Especially given Dunne's well known lack of general fitness and injury history. Lambert essentially chose to go into the season with one defender completely new to the Premier League, and two kids. His choice, and as I said before, it's backfired spectacularly.
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I'm pretty sure the prognosis on Dunne was less then that at the start of the season?
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Exactly Mark, we were weak in defence anyway, and so to effectively just swap Collins for Vlaar and sign a couple of kids at full back was a high risk to take, and one that has come back to bite Lambert on the arse.
Agree, we also let valuable experience go with Cuellar's release on a free. It was madness to lose so much experience all at the same time. Add in Stan's unfortunate illness and it only adds to the problem of a lack of senior players.
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Mid september was the date being suggested in the summer, it was only after the window shut that it extended. As I recall He was back in training and had a relapse so yes it was a bit of a risk but if everything had gone to plan he'd have expected a full compliment by the start of october.
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We've been shit all season. Lots of delusion on here.
Swansea at home, Newcastle away, Arse at home, 60 mins of the Manure match, Liverpool, Norwich and Citeh in the cup. Or were they all delusuions?
Not talking about the League Cup. I'm talking about the league. It's our bread and butter and it matters the most. By the way, no team however poor they are goes through a season without a few good performances, and we're no different. For every Swansea game I could give you an Everton, Chelsea, Wigan or a list of other appalling performances. Even when we beat Reading it was an absolutely awful display.
Stop dreaming - this team is heading towards the drop unless we invest this month in PL experience.
So we have not been shit ALL season as you originally posted. And I have seen Manure get results in absolutely awful performances. I'm not arguing we are not in trouble, especially if we buy poorly in the window and our injuries don't stop happening, just saying that we have shown we can also get results as well as shown we can get battered.
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As I recall He was back in training and had a relapse so yes it was a bit of a risk but if everything had gone to plan he'd have expected a full compliment by the start of october.
Incorrect. This was from the Mail in October:
"In comments made to the Birmingham Mail Lambert said that Dunne had suffered some complications during his recovery from surgery and asked the question if he was anywhere near returning to training, especially given we only have one natural centre half who's fit, the manager said:
'No he's not, he's been feeling a lot better and that's a good thing. He's still not training with us but hopefully he'll start very shortly. He might get the tail end of the year, but you've got to take into account the training time to get fit.'
He hadn't returned to training at all.
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As I recall He was back in training and had a relapse so yes it was a bit of a risk but if everything had gone to plan he'd have expected a full compliment by the start of october.
Incorrect. This was from the Mail in October:
"In comments made to the Birmingham Mail Lambert said that Dunne had suffered some complications during his recovery from surgery and asked the question if he was anywhere near returning to training, especially given we only have one natural centre half who's fit, the manager said:
'No he's not, he's been feeling a lot better and that's a good thing. He's still not training with us but hopefully he'll start very shortly. He might get the tail end of the year, but you've got to take into account the training time to get fit.'
He hadn't returned to training at all.
So, that was once the window closed then?
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That's the comments I was thinking of but I was certain they were in september.
Regardless at the start of August we sent him for an operation with an expected return of up to 2 months. That's definitely true because we made a big song and dance of slagging of slagging off the Irish medical team when we sent him for the operation and it was all over the papers.
That means, as far as we were aware, until he relapsed, which it appears occurred at some point in september, we expected him to be unavailable for up to 6 matches. Should we really have spent money signing an experienced central defender as cover for that period when we'd just signed 1 and had 2 very promising youngsters who deserved a chance to show they were up to it?
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Yes, it was always going to be the case that he would be out for all of August and most of September at the very least. But given his injury history and general attitude/fitness, it was always going to be a risk relying on him to come back sooner than that. Especially when that left us with such an inexperienced pool of central defenders, as I said before. Lambert has only go himself to blame on this one.
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Yes, it was always going to be the case that he would be out for all of August and most of September at the very least. But given his injury history and general attitude/fitness, it was always going to be a risk relying on him to come back sooner than that. Especially when that left us with such an inexperienced pool of central defenders, as I said before. Lambert has only go himself to blame on this one.
I think that's a bit harsh risso, it's a freak situation to have 3 out of 4 central defenders out at the same time injured , normally 4 central defenders will be enough with others as cover .
Regarding dunne , lambert could not have expected him to be out this long as the original diagnosis suggested.
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Should we really have spent money signing an experienced central defender as cover for that period when we'd just signed 1 and had 2 very promising youngsters who deserved a chance to show they were up to it?
Absolutely we should. Starting a Premier League season with somebody completely new to the league and two kids with a handful of appearances each was madness, as our general defensive malaise shows. Even with Vlaar in the team we were shipping an average of 1.75 goals a game.
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Yes, it was always going to be the case that he would be out for all of August and most of September at the very least. But given his injury history and general attitude/fitness, it was always going to be a risk relying on him to come back sooner than that. Especially when that left us with such an inexperienced pool of central defenders, as I said before. Lambert has only go himself to blame on this one.
I don;t think they were relying on him to come back sooner, but what is Lambert supposed to do other than take the advice of his medical staff on matters such as this?
Signing A N Other centre back with Dunne still on the books would have been an unwsie use of resources, given what they knew at the time.
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The defence stats speak for themselves with regard to how the defence has performed.
It was a gamble and it has gone terribly wrong, only one person to blame for it.
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Even so to lose Baker and Vlaar and both left backs at the same time, meaning we couldn't even play Lowton centrally as Lichaj was needed on the left, was a pretty unlikely scenario. Not including Dunne, Warnock, Hutton, Williams and Herd we still had 7 defenders in the squad, I bet not many other Prem teams apart from those in Europe have any more than this.
You can bank on having 3 players unavailable at any given time but you can't build a squad on the basis you are deprived of 10/11 players at any given time, we have been extremely unfortunate, especially given the age of the squad.
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The defence stats speak for themselves with regard to how the defence has performed.
It was a gamble and it has gone terribly wrong, only one person to blame for it.
The defence are exposed far too often by a weak midfield providing little or no protection .
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Yes, it was always going to be the case that he would be out for all of August and most of September at the very least. But given his injury history and general attitude/fitness, it was always going to be a risk relying on him to come back sooner than that. Especially when that left us with such an inexperienced pool of central defenders, as I said before. Lambert has only go himself to blame on this one.
I don;t think they were relying on him to come back sooner, but what is Lambert supposed to do other than take the advice of his medical staff on matters such as this?
Signing A N Other centre back with Dunne still on the books would have been an unwsie use of resources, given what they knew at the time.
They thought he was going to be out for at least 6-8 weeks, with then added time to get match fit. It was hugely risky, which is fine if it works out, but it hasn't, as 40 goals conceded in 20 games shows.
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Yes, it was always going to be the case that he would be out for all of August and most of September at the very least. But given his injury history and general attitude/fitness, it was always going to be a risk relying on him to come back sooner than that. Especially when that left us with such an inexperienced pool of central defenders, as I said before. Lambert has only go himself to blame on this one.
I don;t think they were relying on him to come back sooner, but what is Lambert supposed to do other than take the advice of his medical staff on matters such as this?
Signing A N Other centre back with Dunne still on the books would have been an unwsie use of resources, given what they knew at the time.
They thought he was going to be out for at least 6-8 weeks, with then added time to get match fit. It was hugely risky, which is fine if it works out, but it hasn't, as 40 goals conceded in 20 games shows.
But the risk was not just 'what if Dunne takes longer to get fit?' but rather 'what if Dunne takes longer to get fit and then we also lose, Vlaar, Baker and both LBs?' Surely you can see that the secound scenario was much more likely and is what happened. You can't account for an injury list like that. Houllier couldn't 2 years ago and Lambert couldn't this summer.
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The defence stats speak for themselves with regard to how the defence has performed.
It was a gamble and it has gone terribly wrong, only one person to blame for it.
The defence are exposed far too often by a weak midfield providing little or no protection .
Quite, I bet Lambert would have liked to use Petrov, Makoun and Gardner at times this season, as well as Dunne, to lose 4 players for an entire 1st half of the season is rank bad luck, to lose half a dozen on top for several weeks has compounded this massively.
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Baker and Clark are both kids, and even without injuries they're prone to mistakes and periods of not playing well. As I keep saying, he was gambling our entire back line on players with very little or no Premier League experience, and it's madness. All of our decent sides have been built on a bedrock of a firm defence, but Lowton, Vlaar, Baker, Clark, Bennett, Lichaj and Stevens were never going to deliver that. Certainly not this season anyway.
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Lamberts transfer dealings have in the main been very encouraging
I agree. The only one he looks to have fluffed is KEA, and even he might end up being OK, given time. There's no arguing that Westwood and Lowton are just the sort of signings the club needs to make for the longer term, Bennett looks like he will take longer to make the grade but you can see the potential, and let's not forget Benteke, whose value has surely doubled in the mere months since he joined. He also brought Guzan back, with stunning results. Vlaar is very solid and has slotted in really well, so much so that we have missed him enormously in recent games. Nope, I trust this man with Randy's cash, no worries.
Frankly, if we hadn't had such fucking awful luck with injuries, this thread wouldn't even have been started.
Which of the long term injured was he regulary playing?
And how were we doing before the injuries kicked in?
Well, before the injuries kicked in - and particularly the injury to Vlaar which has really cost us - we were doing largely shit with intermittent 20 or 30 minute spells of really promising football. But we were grinding out enough results to suggest that we'd stay up reasonably comfortably. It's only the last few games that the crap has well and truly hit the fan and we've been getting spanked. I would imagine that had Vlaar and Dunne been available over the festive period, Lambert would have played them. And losing Gabby has a far bigger impact than most people allow for, too, as he runs the channels effectively and can pull wide to ease pressure on the midfield. Opponents are definitely wary of his pace, even if he's playing indifferently.
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Baker and Clark are both kids, and even without injuries they're prone to mistakes and periods of not playing well. As I keep saying, he was gambling our entire back line on players with very little or no Premier League experience, and it's madness. All of our decent sides have been built on a bedrock of a firm defence, but Lowton, Vlaar, Baker, Clark, Bennett, Lichaj and Stevens were never going to deliver that. Certainly not this season anyway.
Neither are kids - both in their 20s and good enough to play at this level , though perhaps in need of an experienced partner.
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Baker and Clark are both kids, and even without injuries they're prone to mistakes and periods of not playing well. As I keep saying, he was gambling our entire back line on players with very little or no Premier League experience, and it's madness. All of our decent sides have been built on a bedrock of a firm defence, but Lowton, Vlaar, Baker, Clark, Bennett, Lichaj and Stevens were never going to deliver that. Certainly not this season anyway.
Neither are kids - both in their 20s and good enough to play at this level , though perhaps in need of an experienced partner.
I think a 21 year old player with half a dozen first team games to his name can reasonably be referred to as a 'kid' in footballing terms. But if you want to be petty, let's go with "young and inexperienced" then.
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Not being petty ris, just that kids implies young untried players whereas baker and Clark have been around the 1st team squad for a couple of years .
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Baker and Clark are both kids, and even without injuries they're prone to mistakes and periods of not playing well. As I keep saying, he was gambling our entire back line on players with very little or no Premier League experience, and it's madness. All of our decent sides have been built on a bedrock of a firm defence, but Lowton, Vlaar, Baker, Clark, Bennett, Lichaj and Stevens were never going to deliver that. Certainly not this season anyway.
Spot on.
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Baker and Clark are both kids, and even without injuries they're prone to mistakes and periods of not playing well. As I keep saying, he was gambling our entire back line on players with very little or no Premier League experience, and it's madness. All of our decent sides have been built on a bedrock of a firm defence, but Lowton, Vlaar, Baker, Clark, Bennett, Lichaj and Stevens were never going to deliver that. Certainly not this season anyway.
Spot on.
Spot on that lambert should have foresaw 3 of his 4 central defenders would be injured at the same time?
He may have made some mistakes but be fair to the guy - he's not to blame for that.
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Not being petty ris, just that kids implies young untried players whereas baker and Clark have been around the 1st team squad for a couple of years .
I agree they are not kids and as far as I'm concerned are both perfectly competent, shame only one of them is fit.
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As others have said, I just don't think, at the time, it was that big a risk, certainly not if buying a central defender had stopped us buying Benteke or Westwood as may have been the case. I think it was an understandable gamble which has backfired with a very harsh run of injuries.
He should remedy it in this window though as, even if he gets fit, we only have 17 games left on Dunne's contract so we may as well now get his replacement in.
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Baker and Clark are both kids, and even without injuries they're prone to mistakes and periods of not playing well. As I keep saying, he was gambling our entire back line on players with very little or no Premier League experience, and it's madness. All of our decent sides have been built on a bedrock of a firm defence, but Lowton, Vlaar, Baker, Clark, Bennett, Lichaj and Stevens were never going to deliver that. Certainly not this season anyway.
Spot on.
Spot on that lambert should have foresaw 3 of his 4 central defenders would be injured at the same time?
He may have made some mistakes but be fair to the guy - he's not to blame for that.
He should have never have gone into the season with such inexperience at the back. We've struggled even players were fit. Only Dunne may have made a difference. The sooner he's back the better.
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Baker and Clark are both kids, and even without injuries they're prone to mistakes and periods of not playing well. As I keep saying, he was gambling our entire back line on players with very little or no Premier League experience, and it's madness. All of our decent sides have been built on a bedrock of a firm defence, but Lowton, Vlaar, Baker, Clark, Bennett, Lichaj and Stevens were never going to deliver that. Certainly not this season anyway.
Spot on.
Spot on that lambert should have foresaw 3 of his 4 central defenders would be injured at the same time?
He may have made some mistakes but be fair to the guy - he's not to blame for that.
He should have never have gone into the season with such inexperience at the back. We've struggled even players were fit. Only Dunne may have made a difference. The sooner he's back the better.
To be honest I'd be surprised if dunne plays for us again.
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Quite, I bet Lambert would have liked to use Petrov, Makoun and Gardner at times this season, as well as Dunne, to lose 4 players for an entire 1st half of the season is rank bad luck, to lose half a dozen on top for several weeks has compounded this massively.
Oh come on. He knew Petrov and Dunne wouldn't be playing, and he sent Makoun out on loan.
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Needing a break, Jesus how many games are players these days able to play before they break down and need a break?
Comparing players now to those of days gone by is like comparing thoroughbred racehorses to carthorses. Playing too many games might deprive them of 1 or 2% of their sharpness. You and I wouldn't notice that but it's the difference between making a last-ditch tackle and the goal we let in yesterday.
Exactly why i'd give Benteke a break on Saturday.
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Quite, I bet Lambert would have liked to use Petrov, Makoun and Gardner at times this season, as well as Dunne, to lose 4 players for an entire 1st half of the season is rank bad luck, to lose half a dozen on top for several weeks has compounded this massively.
Oh come on. He knew Petrov and Dunne wouldn't be playing, and he sent Makoun out on loan.
We couldn't play Makoun due to work permit issues, but I blame Lambert for not finding a way around employment law.
It's not good enough.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
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Quite, I bet Lambert would have liked to use Petrov, Makoun and Gardner at times this season, as well as Dunne, to lose 4 players for an entire 1st half of the season is rank bad luck, to lose half a dozen on top for several weeks has compounded this massively.
Oh come on. He knew Petrov and Dunne wouldn't be playing, and he sent Makoun out on loan.
We couldn't play Makoun due to work permit issues, but I blame Lambert for not finding a way around employment law.
It's not good enough.
Too right.
This is the WORST EVER work permit issue in the club's history. He makes McLeish look good.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
He's shit, and given us our worst start, worst ever result, the least goals scored (apart from QPR) and the worst defence in the league. There. The first half against Swansea was probably the most disorganised display by a Villa side in living memory. And he mumbles like on old drunk.
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The mumbling is your full on new assault isn't it Risso. I understood every word after the game yesterday, softly spoken scottish it may be, but Dalglish is 50 times worse, and Ferguson used to mumble, just like an old drunk in fact. I am not sure the way he speaks is relevant to his ability as a manager, which up until this season has been a pretty impressive success.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
Worst start to a season ever, record defeat, record goals conceded, a point above relegation zone, fewest home wins, lowest goal scorers etc.
No convincing argument then?
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
He's shit, and given us our worst start, worst ever result, the least goals scored (apart from QPR) and the worst defence in the league. There. The first half against Swansea was probably the most disorganised display by a Villa side in living memory. And he mumbles like on old drunk.
Again, wholly unconvincing and subjective, with mild undertones of racism.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
He's shit, and given us our worst start, worst ever result, the least goals scored (apart from QPR) and the worst defence in the league. There. The first half against Swansea was probably the most disorganised display by a Villa side in living memory. And he mumbles like on old drunk.
Again, wholly unconvincing and subjective, with mild undertones of racism.
Racism? Grow up.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
Worst start to a season ever, record defeat, record goals conceded, a point above relegation zone, fewest home wins, lowest goal scorers etc.
No convincing argument then?
No.
Just you and Risso whining on like a couple of impatient old tarts.
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Pipe down you honky.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
He's shit, and given us our worst start, worst ever result, the least goals scored (apart from QPR) and the worst defence in the league. There. The first half against Swansea was probably the most disorganised display by a Villa side in living memory. And he mumbles like on old drunk.
Again, wholly unconvincing and subjective, with mild undertones of racism.
Racism? Grow up.
Slightly tongue in cheek, but you wouldn't see that in your quest to make sure everyone knows how shit everything is.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
Worst start to a season ever, record defeat, record goals conceded, a point above relegation zone, fewest home wins, lowest goal scorers etc.
No convincing argument then?
No, none.
A convincing argument has to be that sacking him *now* would likely improve our situation.
The one even remotely feasible suggestion we've had for replacing him, Di Matteo, is all well and good (debatably), but nobody has yet explained how they think this managerial replacement is going to be hired, installed and ready to go in time to do something in the transfer window.
Everyone knows how shit the season has been before, we've all seen the results, watched the games, seen the league table. Don't you think we realise that?
It's just that the vast majority, 92 percent currently, can see that sacking him now would make no sense whatsoever.
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Pipe down you honky.
I might be a honky, but I'm hung like a donkey.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
Worst start to a season ever, record defeat, record goals conceded, a point above relegation zone, fewest home wins, lowest goal scorers etc.
No convincing argument then?
No.
Just you and Risso whining on like a couple of impatient old tarts.
Oooh, ageism and sexism!
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
He's shit, and given us our worst start, worst ever result, the least goals scored (apart from QPR) and the worst defence in the league. There. The first half against Swansea was probably the most disorganised display by a Villa side in living memory. And he mumbles like on old drunk.
Again, wholly unconvincing and subjective, with mild undertones of racism.
Racism? Grow up.
Slightly tongue in cheek, but you wouldn't see that in your quest to make sure everyone knows how shit everything is.
Did you not know trying to see the positives and looking for things that provide hope for the future are futile, and that we will be relegated without question with Lambert as manager Lee. Has it not sunk in yet. Damn you for questioning the football gods that have decreed this to be so. Damn you.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
Worst start to a season ever, record defeat, record goals conceded, a point above relegation zone, fewest home wins, lowest goal scorers etc.
No convincing argument then?
No, none.
A convincing argument has to be that sacking him *now* would likely improve our situation.
The one even remotely feasible suggestion we've had for replacing him, Di Matteo, is all well and good (debatably), but nobody has yet explained how they think this managerial replacement is going to be hired, installed and ready to go in time to do something in the transfer window.
Everyone knows how shit the season has been before, we've all seen the results, watched the games, seen the league table. Don't you think we realise that?
It's just that the vast majority, 92 percent currently, can see that sacking him now would make no sense whatsoever.
I don't want him sacked, I want him properly backed with wages to match the transfer fees. I can understand fans wanting him out though. His team has been utterly shit this season, no question.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
Worst start to a season ever, record defeat, record goals conceded, a point above relegation zone, fewest home wins, lowest goal scorers etc.
No convincing argument then?
In his defense there's the semi-fianl of a major trophy to throw in the mix. A cup run that has seen us score a minimum of 3 goals in each tie. It doesn't excuse the Chelsea result mind as nothing can.
Our 3 - 0 home loss to Wigan is also a record is it not?
He still has my full support. But, defeat to Bradford (a distinct possibility given the woefulness of our defence) and a loss against Southampton could evaporate that.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
Erm, Roy Keane's available?!
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
He's shit, and given us our worst start, worst ever result, the least goals scored (apart from QPR) and the worst defence in the league. There. The first half against Swansea was probably the most disorganised display by a Villa side in living memory. And he mumbles like on old drunk.
Again, wholly unconvincing and subjective, with mild undertones of racism.
Racism? Grow up.
Slightly tongue in cheek, but you wouldn't see that in your quest to make sure everyone knows how shit everything is.
Did you not know trying to see the positives and looking for things that provide hope for the future are futile, and that we will be relegated without question with Lambert as manager Lee. Has it not sunk in yet. Damn you for questioning the football gods that have decreed this to be so. Damn you.
As somebody who is somewhere in the middle, I don't think that the antis have any more of a monopoly on knowing what the football gods have decreed than the pros, as that post shows. One of the sad things for me in our current plight is seeing so much niggling between fans. There have always been wind up merchants on here but now the names you used to look at and think 'they will probably have something sensible to say' are as bad as everyone else. It's hardly unreasonable to criticise a manager who has so far produced dreadful results and whose signings in general are not convincing. Likewise, it is hard to see any rationale in giving up on him at this point and no way could we get someone in in time to sort it out anyway because we have 30 days to improve a very poor squad. So everyone has a point to a degree, lets all be nice to each other or Santa won't come next year.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
He's shit, and given us our worst start, worst ever result, the least goals scored (apart from QPR) and the worst defence in the league. There. The first half against Swansea was probably the most disorganised display by a Villa side in living memory. And he mumbles like on old drunk.
Again, wholly unconvincing and subjective, with mild undertones of racism.
Racism? Grow up.
Slightly tongue in cheek, but you wouldn't see that in your quest to make sure everyone knows how shit everything is.
Did you not know trying to see the positives and looking for things that provide hope for the future are futile, and that we will be relegated without question with Lambert as manager Lee. Has it not sunk in yet. Damn you for questioning the football gods that have decreed this to be so. Damn you.
As somebody who is somewhere in the middle, I don't think that the antis have any more of a monopoly on knowing what the football gods have decreed than the pros, as that post shows. One of the sad things for me in our current plight is seeing so much niggling between fans. There have always been wind up merchants on here but now the names you used to look at and think 'they will probably have something sensible to say' are as bad as everyone else. It's hardly unreasonable to criticise a manager who has so far produced dreadful results and whose signings in general are not convincing. Likewise, it is hard to see any rationale in giving up on him at this point and no way could we get someone in in time to sort it out anyway because we have 30 days to improve a very poor squad. So everyone has a point to a degree, lets all be nice to each other or Santa won't come next year.
Or this year.
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Blimey 57 pages in 4 days, IN!
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
Worst start to a season ever, record defeat, record goals conceded, a point above relegation zone, fewest home wins, lowest goal scorers etc.
No convincing argument then?
No, none.
A convincing argument has to be that sacking him *now* would likely improve our situation.
The one even remotely feasible suggestion we've had for replacing him, Di Matteo, is all well and good (debatably), but nobody has yet explained how they think this managerial replacement is going to be hired, installed and ready to go in time to do something in the transfer window.
Everyone knows how shit the season has been before, we've all seen the results, watched the games, seen the league table. Don't you think we realise that?
It's just that the vast majority, 92 percent currently, can see that sacking him now would make no sense whatsoever.
I don't want him sacked, I want him properly backed with wages to match the transfer fees. I can understand fans wanting him out though. His team has been utterly shit this season, no question.
ooh, a split in the ranks between you and Risso. Risso not only wants him fired, he wants him tied to the floor of the Tilton Road stand and have the noses urinate on him.
They haven't been utterly shit at all but don't let the progress being made prior to three really bad games get in the way of a solid moan and rant. I suppose you'll be telling us the team is shit if/when they walk out at Wembley for the league cup final also having beaten Man City and Norwich away.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
Worst start to a season ever, record defeat, record goals conceded, a point above relegation zone, fewest home wins, lowest goal scorers etc.
No convincing argument then?
No, none.
A convincing argument has to be that sacking him *now* would likely improve our situation.
The one even remotely feasible suggestion we've had for replacing him, Di Matteo, is all well and good (debatably), but nobody has yet explained how they think this managerial replacement is going to be hired, installed and ready to go in time to do something in the transfer window.
Everyone knows how shit the season has been before, we've all seen the results, watched the games, seen the league table. Don't you think we realise that?
It's just that the vast majority, 92 percent currently, can see that sacking him now would make no sense whatsoever.
I don't want him sacked, I want him properly backed with wages to match the transfer fees. I can understand fans wanting him out though. His team has been utterly shit this season, no question.
ooh, a split in the ranks between you and Risso. Risso not only wants him fired, he wants him tied to the floor of the Tilton Road stand and have the noses urinate on him.
They haven't been utterly shit at all but don't let the progress being made prior to three really bad games get in the way of a solid moan and rant. I suppose you'll be telling us the team is shit if/when they walk out at Wembley for the league cup final also having beaten Man City and Norwich away.
Grow up.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
Worst start to a season ever, record defeat, record goals conceded, a point above relegation zone, fewest home wins, lowest goal scorers etc.
No convincing argument then?
No, none.
A convincing argument has to be that sacking him *now* would likely improve our situation.
The one even remotely feasible suggestion we've had for replacing him, Di Matteo, is all well and good (debatably), but nobody has yet explained how they think this managerial replacement is going to be hired, installed and ready to go in time to do something in the transfer window.
Everyone knows how shit the season has been before, we've all seen the results, watched the games, seen the league table. Don't you think we realise that?
It's just that the vast majority, 92 percent currently, can see that sacking him now would make no sense whatsoever.
I don't want him sacked, I want him properly backed with wages to match the transfer fees. I can understand fans wanting him out though. His team has been utterly shit this season, no question.
ooh, a split in the ranks between you and Risso. Risso not only wants him fired, he wants him tied to the floor of the Tilton Road stand and have the noses urinate on him.
They haven't been utterly shit at all but don't let the progress being made prior to three really bad games get in the way of a solid moan and rant. I suppose you'll be telling us the team is shit if/when they walk out at Wembley for the league cup final also having beaten Man City and Norwich away.
Grow up.
very rich indeed
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You like telling people to grow up for not agreeing with you or taking the piss out of your depressing mantra SH.
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
Worst start to a season ever, record defeat, record goals conceded, a point above relegation zone, fewest home wins, lowest goal scorers etc.
No convincing argument then?
No, none.
A convincing argument has to be that sacking him *now* would likely improve our situation.
The one even remotely feasible suggestion we've had for replacing him, Di Matteo, is all well and good (debatably), but nobody has yet explained how they think this managerial replacement is going to be hired, installed and ready to go in time to do something in the transfer window.
Everyone knows how shit the season has been before, we've all seen the results, watched the games, seen the league table. Don't you think we realise that?
It's just that the vast majority, 92 percent currently, can see that sacking him now would make no sense whatsoever.
I don't want him sacked, I want him properly backed with wages to match the transfer fees. I can understand fans wanting him out though. His team has been utterly shit this season, no question.
ooh, a split in the ranks between you and Risso. Risso not only wants him fired, he wants him tied to the floor of the Tilton Road stand and have the noses urinate on him.
They haven't been utterly shit at all but don't let the progress being made prior to three really bad games get in the way of a solid moan and rant. I suppose you'll be telling us the team is shit if/when they walk out at Wembley for the league cup final also having beaten Man City and Norwich away.
Grow up.
He's got a point, though, like he said, if we've been consistently shit, how did we manage to get to the CCC semi final, during which we won away at both Man City and Norwich, scoring four goals each time?
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He's got a point, though, like he said, if we've been consistently shit, how did we manage to get to the CCC semi final, during which we won away at both Man City and Norwich, scoring four goals each time?
It's probably all down to luck. How else can a team that's been utterly shit all season not be in the bottom 3 and have made a semi-final?
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
Worst start to a season ever, record defeat, record goals conceded, a point above relegation zone, fewest home wins, lowest goal scorers etc.
No convincing argument then?
If it wasn't for the fact that you have been around for a while and have nearly 5 thousand posts,
I would think you were just a blues supporting super troll
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Site rules. Please read. (http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?page=page4597)
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I've just read the rules, it says repeated posting of the same thing to make a point will not be tolerated
Every one has there own POV but to keep on posting exactly the same thing over and over again just winds people up and you inevitably will get bickering
How many fucking times have we got to read a list of bad records set this season, we know, gets on my nerves like bloody water totrture
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I've just read the rules, it says repeated posting of the same thing to make a point will not be tolerated
Every one has there own POV but to keep on posting exactly the same thing over and over again just winds people up and you inevitably will get bickering
How many fucking times have we got to read a list of bad records set this season, we know, gets on my nerves like bloody water totrture
What do you expect on a 'Lambert In or Out' thread? Seriously, if it upsets you that much it's probably best to avoid it.
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I've just read the rules, it says repeated posting of the same thing to make a point will not be tolerated
Every one has there own POV but to keep on posting exactly the same thing over and over again just winds people up and you inevitably will get bickering
How many fucking times have we got to read a list of bad records set this season, we know, gets on my nerves like bloody water totrture
Or how many times does he have to tell people they are 'deluded' or to 'grow up'?
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55 pages in and nobody has put anything like a convincing argument forward for moving him on.
Worst start to a season ever, record defeat, record goals conceded, a point above relegation zone, fewest home wins, lowest goal scorers etc.
No convincing argument then?
No.
Just you and Risso whining on like a couple of impatient old tarts.
Oooh, ageism and sexism!
At least he didn't tell you and Risso to fuck off.
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Time to calm down I reckon.
As hilts said earlier, if you don't want to hear criticism of Lambert, avoid this thread, there are plenty of other ones to look at.
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Time for a cooling-off period I think.
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Clean slate time.
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I love it when people get self righteous and arsey. It's so Christmassy
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Who is going to blink first?
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I'm undecided as to who I tell to fuck off first.
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A Happy New Fuck Off to all!
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What sort of fuckery is this?
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I want Lambert to continue and I think the focus on youth is the right way to go. The only thing I'd say to him is that without the present being solid, the promising future won't ever materialise.
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What sort of fuckery is this?
I think it's quite blatant fuckery.
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Has anyone taken their coat off yet? Aaahtside!
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Paul Lambert is relishing leading Villa into the "prestigious" FA Cup competition, with a third round tie against Ipswich Town on Saturday.
Lambert is under no illusions as to the size of the task with the Championship outfit eager for a top-flight scalp.
But the Villa boss is hoping his team can let go of their league shackles and turn on the style in the third round encounter, which kicks-off at 3pm.
He said: "We are looking forward to the cup games now. There's not the same pressure in the cups as there is in the league.
"We have two massive cup matches and we will try and get through.
"It will be really hard. It always is. The FA Cup is a prestigious competition. It will be a tough game."
Lambert hopes Villa can build on the positives of the Swansea draw.
The gaffer insists he's trying to get results while, at the same time, rebuilding the football club.
He's happy with how it's started, despite the festive blip.
He added: "There are positives. I have a lot of faith in what I'm doing and I won't deviate from it. It's my belief that they will keep doing it.
"I can't fault them for their effort, even in getting beaten heavily in the three games. We have kept their spirits up.
"I work with them every day, I know what they're like and when they're feeling high or down. You try to pick them up. But against Swansea, especially in the second half, I thought they were really good.
"We have to build the football club as well as get results. That's the way it is.
"We are trying to do that in the best way we can. That's what we continue to do. It's for the future of the football club."
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why is the last sentence not in quote marks?
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why is the last sentence not in quote marks?
Because it's lies.
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why is the last sentence not in quote marks?
Sorry that was my opinion
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why is the last sentence not in quote marks?
Sorry that was my opinion
A few innocent quotation marks would have wound things up a treat.
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why is the last sentence not in quote marks?
Sorry that was my opinion
A few "innocent" quotation marks would have wound things up a treat.
Keep him in thats what I say. And you know I'm always right.
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Ha.I've removed it,From what he's saying he is sticking to his original plan so can't see him bringing much experience in,which is fine providing we don't get relegated
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I'm undecided as to who I tell to fuck off first.
i'm not
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I'm undecided as to who I tell to fuck off first.
i'm not
Not cooled off sufficiently.
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I'm undecided as to who I tell to fuck off first.
i'm not
Not cooled off sufficiently.
i'm chillaxed
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Ha.I've removed it,From what he's saying he is sticking to his original plan so can't see him bringing much experience in,which is fine providing we don't get relegated
If you take what happened in the summer as his original plan, then, excluding re-signing Guzan, 3 of his 8 signings were experienced, although not PL experienced. As always, it's a case of needing to build with youth and mix in a few experienced heads, so if he does stick to the original plan, presuming we're right in what that is, then I cam see some experience coming in this month.
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I'm saving my 'fuck off' for somebody who never goes to any Villa matches.
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I'm saving my 'fuck off' for somebody who never goes to any Villa matches.
you are going to want to check out the Villa fans miles away thread then :) Fuck off to all of those bastards is what I say
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I'm saving my 'fuck off' for somebody who never goes to any Villa matches.
you are going to want to check out the Villa fans miles away thread then :) Fuck off to all of those bastards is what I say
No, No, No
The ones who refuse to go out of choice.
Or anybody that doesn't agree that Sarah Falkland is a Godess.
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I'm saving my 'fuck off' for somebody who never goes to any Villa matches.
you are going to want to check out the Villa fans miles away thread then :) Fuck off to all of those bastards is what I say
No, No, No
The ones who refuse to go out of choice.
Or anybody that doesn't agree that Sarah Falkland is a Godess.
what you saving all for the Nasher?
I won't comment either way on Ms Falkland then
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I'm saving my 'fuck off' for somebody who never goes to any Villa matches.
you are going to want to check out the Villa fans miles away thread then :) Fuck off to all of those bastards is what I say
No, No, No
The ones who refuse to go out of choice.
Or anybody that doesn't agree that Sarah Falkland is a Godess.
If by Godess you're referring to the old fire engines, then I'm with you all the way.
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If by Godess you're referring to the old fire engines, then I'm with you all the way.
No.
I was referring to the surprisingly flexible old girl who used to do exercises on BBC Breakfast in green Lycra.
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If by Godess you're referring to the old fire engines, then I'm with you all the way.
No.
I was referring to the surprisingly flexible old girl who used to do exercises on BBC Breakfast in green Lycra.
i still would.
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what you saving all for the Nasher?
I thought he was Chelsea?
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If by Godess you're referring to the old fire engines, then I'm with you all the way.
No.
I was referring to the surprisingly flexible old girl who used to do exercises on BBC Breakfast in green Lycra.
There must be two Sarah Falklands. I thought you were referring to the old, rough chops on Midlands Today.
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If by Godess you're referring to the old fire engines, then I'm with you all the way.
No.
I was referring to the surprisingly flexible old girl who used to do exercises on BBC Breakfast in green Lycra.
There must be two Sarah Falklands. I thought you were referring to the old, rough chops on Midlands Today.
You're a dead man walking.
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Never shag anybody who has a bigger nose than your dick.She has a 12"inch gonk.
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If by Godess you're referring to the old fire engines, then I'm with you all the way.
No.
I was referring to the surprisingly flexible old girl who used to do exercises on BBC Breakfast in green Lycra.
There must be two Sarah Falklands. I thought you were referring to the old, rough chops on Midlands Today.
you must be one strike away from a serious fuck offing? And I think that comment is rather generous regarding Ms Falkland
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Never shag anybody who has a bigger nose than your dick.She has a 12"inch gonk.
No problem.
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Did anyone else see sarah falkland's massive uncontrolled sneeze as she was handing back to BBC London for the midday news a few weeks ago? It was so sudden and huge that she just soaked the desk in front of her and made loud suction noises afterwards as she struggled to maintain her composure and dignity. I feel privileged to have witnessed it.
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Mark, she really is an ordinary looking woman. Sorry.
Who is the redhead that does the weather? Now there's a comely sheila.
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Did anyone else see sarah falkland's massive uncontrolled sneeze as she was handing back to BBC London for the midday news a few weeks ago? It was so sudden and huge that she just soaked the desk in front of her and made loud suction noises afterwards as she struggled to maintain her composure and dignity. I feel privileged to have witnessed it.
She's still reeling from me turning up on her doorstep with shaved eyebrows and a severed ear (ear not mine).
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Mark, she really is an ordinary looking woman.
Hark at Brad Pitt.
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Did anyone else see sarah falkland's massive uncontrolled sneeze as she was handing back to BBC London for the midday news a few weeks ago? It was so sudden and huge that she just soaked the desk in front of her and made loud suction noises afterwards as she struggled to maintain her composure and dignity. I feel privileged to have witnessed it.
Did they issue a tsunami warning?
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Mark, she really is an ordinary looking woman.
Hark at Brad Pitt the Younger.
Fixed.
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I think she's fit
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I think she's fit
If she is can she play at centre back?
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Mark, she really is an ordinary looking woman.
Hark at Brad Pitt.
Well, my Mrs makes her look like an Ork so... whatevs!
;)
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Mark, she really is an ordinary looking woman.
Hark at Brad Pitt.
Well, my Mrs makes her look like an Ork so... whatevs!
;)
I have no doubt that you're punching well above your weight.
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Mark, she really is an ordinary looking woman.
Hark at Brad Pitt.
Well, my Mrs makes her look like an Ork so... whatevs!
;)
I have no doubt that you're punching well above your weight.
Not to mention his height.
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Speaking of punching...
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I'd be grateful if somebody could post a Picture of Ms Falkland about to go down on a sausage.
Have we signed anybody yet?
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Speaking of punching...
I hope you're not referring to me.
If you are, join the queue.
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Speaking of punching...
I hope you're not referring to me.
If you are, join the queue.
No, the funny fucker brigade with the hilarious and misdirected height jokes.
Not that I'm offended, just bored.
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Speaking of punching...
I hope you're not referring to me.
If you are, join the queue.
No, the funny fucker brigade with the hilarious and misdirected height jokes.
Not that I'm offended, just bored.
Feel your pain,Ernie Wise had longer legs than me.
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Look, Maz has a bit of a short temper, and all those jokes are the height of bad manners.
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Look, Maz has a bit of a short temper, and all those jokes are the height of bad manners.
Compared to the stick Fletch has suffered, they dwarf in comparison.
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he should rise above it.
oh
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Shit. Absolute shit.
At least try and be funny.
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You just haven't been the same since you lost your job when they cancelled 'Fantasy Island', have you?
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Go on Maz, say 'fuck off'
I dare you, I triple dare you.
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You just haven't been the same since you lost your job when they cancelled 'Fantasy Island', have you?
Fuck off.
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Poor old Maz.
He'll be missed.
His last ever post was at 4.52.
I suggest every day at 4.52pm, we stand up and applaud for a full 60 seconds.
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Poor old Maz.
He'll be missed.
His last ever post was at 4.52.
I suggest every day at 4.52pm, we stand up and applaud for a full 60 seconds.
4.52...wasn't that his height in feet?
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I've got a short joke:
Microwave: (noun) A hand gesture used by a midget to say hello.
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Just to clarify, I would never take the piss out of an ex-Marine to his face though.
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Poor old Maz.
He'll be missed.
His last ever post was at 4.52.
I suggest every day at 4.52pm, we stand up and applaud for a full 60 seconds.
Wouldn't it be more appropriate if we crouch down and applaud for a full 60 seconds?
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Poor old Maz.
He'll be missed.
His last ever post was at 4.52.
I suggest every day at 4.52pm, we stand up and applaud for a full 60 seconds.
Asking someone to say fuck off and obliging in that request doesn't get you binned these days.
We could applaud, but it would just go over his head.
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I'm saving my 'fuck off' for somebody who never goes to any Villa matches.
Is it compulsary?
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Go on Maz, say 'fuck off'
I dare you, I triple dare you.
You just haven't been the same since you lost your job when they cancelled 'Fantasy Island', have you?
Fuck off.
Solicitation my Lord. Mr Rip Van Doin the Lambert Walk should be charged forthwith!
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The facts.
Worst start ever. Biggest defeat ever. Youngest side ever. Semi-final of League Cup. At least 3 teams who are worse than us.
The opinion.
Young sides will always have ups and downs. They will beat Liverpool and Norwich away one weak - then get hammered the next.
For those who complain that inexperience is our problem and that Lambert is buying too many unknowns I would say Benteke and Lowton have been our two best outfielders - both Lambert signings - both with no premiership experience. And give me Guzan over Given any day.
That we look a little light in central defence is hardly a surprise. Dunne out. Vlaar out. Baker out. Not only are we playing kids - we are playing them out of their normal position. Chris Herd will make a good defensive midfielder - but a top centre half - not likely.
I think our results will improve as the team grow together and the injured return. TSM used experience and ignored the kids - and we were truly shite. This season - we may well be naive and fragile - but at least when we play well we play well - and don't nick games with a lucky set piece but with free and flowing football.
Knocks make you stronger - and Villa will get stronger. Lambert will buy in this window and our team will survive in the Premier League. We are truly in transition - from old expensive players to young and hungry ones. Yes - we will get tonked now and then - but we will also win games that we never would last season. I believe our curve is upward - and from the results of Risso's poll - it seems the vast majority of Villa supporters think the same.
Lambert out? Don't be silly.
I love democracy when it agrees with me.
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The facts.
Worst start ever. Biggest defeat ever. Youngest side ever. Semi-final of League Cup. At least 3 teams who are worse than us.
The opinion.
Young sides will always have ups and downs. They will beat Liverpool and Norwich away one weak - then get hammered the next.
For those who complain that inexperience is our problem and that Lambert is buying too many unknowns I would say Benteke and Lowton have been our two best outfielders - both Lambert signings - both with no premiership experience. And give me Guzan over Given any day.
That we look a little light in central defence is hardly a surprise. Dunne out. Vlaar out. Baker out. Not only are we playing kids - we are playing them out of their normal position. Chris Herd will make a good defensive midfielder - but a top centre half - not likely.
I think our results will improve as the team grow together and the injured return. TSM used experience and ignored the kids. - and we were truly shite. This season - we may well be naive and fragile - but at least when we play well we play well - and don't nick games with a lucky set piece but with free and flowing football. Knocks make you stronger - and Villa will get stronger. Lambert will buy in this window and our team will survive in the Premier League. We are truly in transition - from old expensive players to young and hungry ones. Yes - we will get tonked now and then - but we will also win games that we never would last season. I believe our curve is upward - and from the results of Risso's poll - it seems the vast majority of Villa supporters think the same.
Lambert out? Don't be silly.
I love democracy when it agrees with me.
Well i'm not sure the TSM ignored youth as a lot of 'em played quite a bit, but he probably realised we needed some experienced older heads there as well, a thought that seems to be just occuring to Lambert. TMS' main problem was the experienced older heads he brought in, as well as a lot already here were shite.
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Just a quick comparison between this season and last [at 20 games played]
PL W D L F A G/D Pts Position
2011/12 20 5 8 7 22 26 -4 23 13th
2012/13 20 4 6 10 15 39 -24 18 17th
In terms of have we improved this season vs. last season, the stats say no on every level, lost more, drawn less, won less, scored less, conceded more, worse goal difference, worse points and lower league place.
Not saying it wont improve but it does show that in terms of measurable facts we are atr 20 games worse than the TSM side last season.
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Just a quick comparison between this season and last [at 20 games played]
PL W D L F A G/D Pts Position
2011/12 20 5 8 7 22 26 -4 23 13th
2012/13 20 4 6 10 15 39 -24 18 17th
In terms of have we improved this season vs. last season, the stats say no on every level, lost more, drawn less, won less, scored less, conceded more, worse goal difference, worse points and lower league place.
Not saying it wont improve but it does show that in terms of measurable facts we are atr 20 games worse than the TSM side last season.
Indeed, where's the improvement? There haven't been any more good performances in those games than there were under McLeish in the same time frame.
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Just a quick comparison between this season and last [at 20 games played]
PL W D L F A G/D Pts Position
2011/12 20 5 8 7 22 26 -4 23 13th
2012/13 20 4 6 10 15 39 -24 18 17th
In terms of have we improved this season vs. last season, the stats say no on every level, lost more, drawn less, won less, scored less, conceded more, worse goal difference, worse points and lower league place.
Not saying it wont improve but it does show that in terms of measurable facts we are atr 20 games worse than the TSM side last season.
The key difference is that the current manager has a positive attitude that brings results such as Liverpool and Norwich but, on the other hand, also produces Chelsea and Wigan. He has a method and a plan which will not work overnight, it's questionable as to whether it will work at all but at least he makes an attempt to win games.
I've said it before, I'd rather go down fighting than stay up with a negative, soul-destroying, cowardly approach to the game.
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I'd be very surprised if we only won another 2 games between now and the end of the season
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Just a quick comparison between this season and last [at 20 games played]
PL W D L F A G/D Pts Position
2011/12 20 5 8 7 22 26 -4 23 13th
2012/13 20 4 6 10 15 39 -24 18 17th
In terms of have we improved this season vs. last season, the stats say no on every level, lost more, drawn less, won less, scored less, conceded more, worse goal difference, worse points and lower league place.
Not saying it wont improve but it does show that in terms of measurable facts we are atr 20 games worse than the TSM side last season.
The key difference is that the current manager has a positive attitude that brings results such as Liverpool and Norwich but, on the other hand, also produces Chelsea and Wigan. He has a method and a plan which will not work overnight, it's questionable as to whether it will work at all but at least he makes an attempt to win games.
I've said it before, I'd rather go down fighting than stay up with a negative, soul-destroying, cowardly approach to the game.
Yes were all in the row boat together happily rowing in the same direction, the question is... is it the right direction?
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Just a quick comparison between this season and last [at 20 games played]
PL W D L F A G/D Pts Position
2011/12 20 5 8 7 22 26 -4 23 13th
2012/13 20 4 6 10 15 39 -24 18 17th
In terms of have we improved this season vs. last season, the stats say no on every level, lost more, drawn less, won less, scored less, conceded more, worse goal difference, worse points and lower league place.
Not saying it wont improve but it does show that in terms of measurable facts we are atr 20 games worse than the TSM side last season.
The key difference is that the current manager has a positive attitude that brings results such as Liverpool and Norwich but, on the other hand, also produces Chelsea and Wigan. He has a method and a plan which will not work overnight, it's questionable as to whether it will work at all but at least he makes an attempt to win games.
I've said it before, I'd rather go down fighting than stay up with a negative, soul-destroying, cowardly approach to the game.
Spot on.
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Just a quick comparison between this season and last [at 20 games played]
PL W D L F A G/D Pts Position
2011/12 20 5 8 7 22 26 -4 23 13th
2012/13 20 4 6 10 15 39 -24 18 17th
In terms of have we improved this season vs. last season, the stats say no on every level, lost more, drawn less, won less, scored less, conceded more, worse goal difference, worse points and lower league place.
Not saying it wont improve but it does show that in terms of measurable facts we are atr 20 games worse than the TSM side last season.
The key difference is that the current manager has a positive attitude that brings results such as Liverpool and Norwich but, on the other hand, also produces Chelsea and Wigan. He has a method and a plan which will not work overnight, it's questionable as to whether it will work at all but at least he makes an attempt to win games.
I've said it before, I'd rather go down fighting than stay up with a negative, soul-destroying, cowardly approach to the game.
Yes were all in the row boat together happily rowing in the same direction, the question is... is it the right direction?
I don't know, but last season was definately the wrong direction.
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I believe we will improve this season, we had been on an upward curve until the Chelsea game and I think we can get back to that.
Last season it always felt like the performances in the first 7-8 games were as good as it was going to get.
Given the choice of starting strong or finishing strong I'd take the latter every time and I believe Lambert will provide that. My belief isn't based on stats so I can't give you documented evidence to indicate why we should expect a change, it's just a feeling, but it's one that around 92.6% of people on this site seem to share.
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I'll ask for the umpteenth time, what exactly is this "method and plan"? And how exactly does he have a positive attitude yet has delivered just about the least amount of goals scored in the league? He's been playing five at the back as well, AND still been getting us spanked.
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but it's one that around 92.6% of people on this site seem to share.
If there was a 'Not Sure' option I would bet that the 92.6% would be allot lower
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I'll ask for the umpteenth time, what exactly is this "method and plan"? And how exactly does he have a positive attitude yet has delivered just about the least amount of goals scored in the league? He's been playing five at the back as well, AND still been getting us spanked.
Play a positive, pressing game using young players that have been brought through more or less together and are prepared to work hard for each other and for the team. You can see the positive attacking game they are trying to play but yes, at times they have been spanked. Doesn't mean the positive approach wasn't there though. In fact, to me it's proof it was there. An Alex Mcleish side, upon going 2 down, will batton down the hatches in order to prevent prevent the loss being more extreme.
It's what people mean when they say "I'd rather see us go down fighting".
Unless you'd prefer to see another season of "damage limitation" football?
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but it's one that around 92.6% of people on this site seem to share.
If there was a 'Not Sure' option I would bet that the 92.6% would be allot lower
I take ypur point, but the question is whether we sack him or not, it has to be yes or no, in the same way he continues as our manager or he doesn't.
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The key difference between this year and last year is, when we've had a good game this year it's been a good team performance where everything is working and you can see the side Lambert wants us to be. Last year our handful of good performances were largely centred on a couple of excellent individual performances (i.e. Ireland was fantastic in the win over Chelsea).
I personally think there is a lot more long term chance of success if we focus on being a side who work for each other and play as a unit, we're not there yet, mainly because we don't have the link up in midfield and we have been mightily unlucky with injuries but it's fairly clear that's what Lambert wants us to become. Given that his signings have largely looked excellent value for money (he spent 27m we'd get back closer to 50m if we sold them now, with Benteke, Lowton and Westwood all having massively increased in value) I think it only right we trust him to spend again in tis window. If he still can't get the most out of them and we struggle then we can review things in the summer (I still don't think we'll go down), at least with his signings we won't be tying the next manager down with lots of over-paid under-performing 30 year olds who are going to hang around for a few years leeching a wage off the club.
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There was an article that made the excellent point that when Norwich came into the premier league they'd already had two seasons of playing together as a side. Aston Villa, who only began to change towards being the kind of model that Lambert wants over the close season, have not had that time. Added to that are the injuries we've had to contend with.
That's a big concern to me, why all these injuries, all the time? It was the same under Mcleish and Houllier as well.
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So really, what it all boils down to, is that he isn't McLeish. Great.
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So really, what it all boils down to, is that he isn't McLeish. Great.
I'd say what it boils down to is understanding the team needed major revitalisation and that the manager doing that needs time. Short term pain for long term gain. You either see what he's trying to build or do not.
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What it boils down to is "do you think it will get better or don't you".
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So really, what it all boils down to, is that he isn't McLeish. Great.
Indeed
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So really, what it all boils down to, is that he isn't McLeish. Great.
Well, yes. That is fair. As a snapshot 20 game comparison, the truth is we are statistically no better.
The future however, has some hope unlike TSM which is why, along with the negative of another managerial disruption, over 90% of us want Lambert to be given a chance.
In fact I cannot remember any manager at any club receiving so much vocal support with such poor stats. Well done Villa fans.
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but it's one that around 92.6% of people on this site seem to share.
If there was a 'Not Sure' option I would bet that the 92.6% would be allot lower
Yes, but a 'not sure' is surely an indication that the voter is happy, for a short time at least, to see if Lambert can turn it around?
Or they are just a fence-sitting, Nick Clegg lover.
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It's not just that he's not Mcleish. He clearly has a plan to try and build an Aston Villa side with young and talented players who want to play for the club, which is admirable. Look at who Mcleish saddled Villa with, Given who was old when we signed him on a long deal and is in decline, Hutton and N'Zogbia. So I'd say that the majority of Lambert's signings have been vastly better.
I'm not saying he hasn't made some errors, but hopefully he realises he needs to blend experienced with youth(his comment that age isn't a factor as long as they're hungry suggests he does realise). Also if we're going to use the first half of the season as a snap shot then fair enough it's not great, although at least we've tried to play football at times. However it's virtually impossible for Lambert to have as bad a second half of a season as Mcleish, so it'll interesting to see how we finish up.
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It's not just that he's not Mcleish. He clearly has a plan to try and build an Aston Villa side with young and talented players who want to play for the club, which is admirable. Look at who Mcleish saddled Villa with, Given who was old when we signed him on a long deal and is in decline, Hutton and N'Zogbia. So I'd say that the majority of Lambert's signings have been vastly better.
I'm not saying he hasn't made some errors, but hopefully he realises he needs to blend experienced with youth(his comment that age isn't a factor as long as they're hungry suggests he does realise). Also if we're going to use the first half of the season as a snap shot then fair enough it's not great, although at least we've tried to play football at times. However it's virtually impossible for Lambert to have as bad a second half of a season as Mcleish, so it'll interesting to see how we finish up.
This is a fair view of the present situation.
I hope the optimism for the second half of the season holds up ;D
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So really, what it all boils down to, is that he isn't McLeish. Great.
That is fair. As a snapshot 20 game comparison, the truth is we are statistically no better.
The truth is we are statistically worse
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but it's one that around 92.6% of people on this site seem to share.
If there was a 'Not Sure' option I would bet that the 92.6% would be allot lower
Yes, but a 'not sure' is surely an indication that the voter is happy, for a short time at least, to see if Lambert can turn it around?
Or they are just a fence-sitting, Nick Clegg lover.
A not sure would be simply that, not sure. Thats a far cry from being happy.
I bet if you asked the question "Are you happy with how things have gone this season?" the result be a massive NO!
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Given the choice of starting strong or finishing strong I'd take the latter every time and I believe Lambert will provide that. My belief isn't based on stats so I can't give you documented evidence to indicate why we should expect a change, it's just a feeling, but it's one that around 92.6% of people on this site seem to share.
6 months ago over 80% of this site wanted Ole Gunner Solskjaer as manager. The mentalists.
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I'll ask for the umpteenth time, what exactly is this "method and plan"?
You devize a plan and than use a method to deliver your plan...(sorry!)
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but it's one that around 92.6% of people on this site seem to share.
If there was a 'Not Sure' option I would bet that the 92.6% would be allot lower
Yes, but a 'not sure' is surely an indication that the voter is happy, for a short time at least, to see if Lambert can turn it around?
Or they are just a fence-sitting, Nick Clegg lover.
A not sure would be simply that, not sure. Thats a far cry from being happy.
I bet if you asked the question "Are you happy with how things have gone this season?" the result be a massive NO!
But it's an entirely different question. You can be unhappy with results without it meaning you want Lambert sacked. I think most can see that these things aren't sorted in 5 minutes, that we've been badly hit by injuries and yet despite that we're in with a great chance of a trip to Wembley.
This poll says that the vast majority of us don't think that the manager should be given the boot, it's a flat choice and all but for a few perpetual malcontents we've backed him.
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Given the choice of starting strong or finishing strong I'd take the latter every time and I believe Lambert will provide that. My belief isn't based on stats so I can't give you documented evidence to indicate why we should expect a change, it's just a feeling, but it's one that around 92.6% of people on this site seem to share.
6 months ago over 80% of this site wanted Ole Gunner Solskjær as manager. The mentalists.
I still think we've missed out there if I'm honest, having moved to Norway I've seen a few local game son TV and Molde are a great side, play at a good tempo, pass well, all look confident and happy to back their ability, I think he'll prove to be a top manager in a few years. That said I'm happy with Lambert and I like the idea of what he wants us to be but he was never my first choice of the names we were being linked with.
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but it's one that around 92.6% of people on this site seem to share.
If there was a 'Not Sure' option I would bet that the 92.6% would be allot lower
Yes, but a 'not sure' is surely an indication that the voter is happy, for a short time at least, to see if Lambert can turn it around?
Or they are just a fence-sitting, Nick Clegg lover.
A not sure would be simply that, not sure. Thats a far cry from being happy.
I bet if you asked the question "Are you happy with how things have gone this season?" the result be a massive NO!
But it's an entirely different question. You can be unhappy with results without it meaning you want Lambert sacked. I think most can see that these things aren't sorted in 5 minutes, that we've been badly hit by injuries and yet despite that we're in with a great chance of a trip to Wembley.
This poll says that the vast majority of us don't think that the manager should be given the boot, it's a flat choice and all but for a few perpetual malcontents we've backed him.
That was part of my point, simply asking the question to sack or not sack will give only one side of the issue.
I think we could agree that the feeling accross the supported base is that we are not happy with how things have gone, but the majority want to see if Lambert can fix it.
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I think we could agree that the feeling accross the supported base is that we are not happy with how things have gone, but the majority want to see if Lambert can fix it.
The logical progression of that final thought being that the vast majority therefore believe that he can fix it. We had similar issues last year and the vast majority didn't want TSM to have the chance to fix it as the belief was that he would only make things worse.
The not sure option is a red herring, the reality is 92.6% of this board feel that Lambert is capable of delivering more than he has currently.
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That was part of my point, simply asking the question to sack or not sack will give only one side of the issue.
I think we could agree that the feeling accross the supported base is that we are not happy with how things have gone, but the majority want to see if Lambert can fix it.
Which is pretty much what I said and you disagreed with!
A 'not sure' is just that, the voter saying that they are not sure he should be sacked right now, therefore it can be extrapolated that said voter thinks that he should be given some sort of further opportunity to convince them he should stay, be that one more game, the transfer window or the rest of the season.
Can't see how it could be seen any other way really unless the voter has absolutely no opinion in which case I'm not sure they would actually be a Villa fan given the circumstances!
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I'll ask for the umpteenth time, what exactly is this "method and plan"? And how exactly does he have a positive attitude yet has delivered just about the least amount of goals scored in the league? He's been playing five at the back as well, AND still been getting us spanked.
Oh, didn't you know? It's Roberto di Matteo apparently. Maybe Roy Keane as a number two (yes he's shit).
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I'll ask for the umpteenth time, what exactly is this "method and plan"? And how exactly does he have a positive attitude yet has delivered just about the least amount of goals scored in the league? He's been playing five at the back as well, AND still been getting us spanked.
Even if you don't think the plan is working, surely you can see what it is. We are trying to play attractive football, lower the wage bill and get a younger squad who care about playing for the club. The latter part of the team being younger sometimes hinders the first part (playing attractive football), but as they are all inexperienced at this level, this is something that should improve. Like him or not (and some people who support football clubs rarely like anything about it, which I find odd), I don't think Lambert's plans are too hard to see. It's not exactly like cracking the Enigma code.
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Just a quick comparison between this season and last [at 20 games played]
PL W D L F A G/D Pts Position
2011/12 20 5 8 7 22 26 -4 23 13th
2012/13 20 4 6 10 15 39 -24 18 17th
In terms of have we improved this season vs. last season, the stats say no on every level, lost more, drawn less, won less, scored less, conceded more, worse goal difference, worse points and lower league place.
Not saying it wont improve but it does show that in terms of measurable facts we are atr 20 games worse than the TSM side last season.
Well - FFS - if you put it like that - lets get Big F'eck back. I was blind - but now I see.
But then again - with 18 games to go - would I take TSM's Villa - or Paul Lambert's Villa?
You know the answer.
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Just a quick comparison between this season and last [at 20 games played]
PL W D L F A G/D Pts Position
2011/12 20 5 8 7 22 26 -4 23 13th
2012/13 20 4 6 10 15 39 -24 18 17th
In terms of have we improved this season vs. last season, the stats say no on every level, lost more, drawn less, won less, scored less, conceded more, worse goal difference, worse points and lower league place.
Not saying it wont improve but it does show that in terms of measurable facts we are atr 20 games worse than the TSM side last season.
This is a comparison between the best of last season and (hopefully) the worst of this season.
TSM's side under performed in the 20 games you cite. When injuries kicked in then results were shocking. I'd like to see a goals and pts per match comparison for the last 10 games of last season vs. the 10 most recent games of this season.
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Quote misdeeed
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I am not in favour of sacking Lambert in anyway and he deserves a season at the very least but my god have we looked worse this season than last which I thought was impossible. We have even looked so absolutely inept to the point of being defensively one, if not the worst teams I can remember seeing in the premiership. So the fans do absolutely deserve to criticise where we are now and what Lambert is doing. Does he deserve the sack? Not yet but he does seem to be trying very hard
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I am not in favour of sacking Lambert in anyway and he deserves a season at the very least but my god have we looked worse this season than last which I thought was impossible. We have even looked so absolutely inept to the point of being defensively one, if not the worst teams I can remember seeing in the premiership. So the fans do absolutely deserve to criticise where we are now and what Lambert is doing. Does he deserve the sack? Not yet but he does seem to be trying very hard
Thats pretty much my position. Swansea first half was as bad as the other big defeats but i'm hoping we've turned the corner confidence wise. As long as it was confidence, as opposed to the players being totally confused by what he wants. If we hadn't dumped 2 managers in the last 2 seasons i'd probably be on his back more, but i really haven't got the stomach for another round of manager recruitment and as many have pointed out - name someone who can take over who's guaranteed to improve things without big money?
End of the day if we continue to ship shed loads of goals, it won't matter what anyone thinks. He'll be a goner. You can't survive letting in 17 goals every 4 games unless you're scoring 18.
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I am not in favour of sacking Lambert in anyway and he deserves a season at the very least but my god have we looked worse this season than last which I thought was impossible. We have even looked so absolutely inept to the point of being defensively one, if not the worst teams I can remember seeing in the premiership. So the fans do absolutely deserve to criticise where we are now and what Lambert is doing. Does he deserve the sack? Not yet but he does seem to be trying very hard
Thats pretty much my position. Swansea first half was as bad as the other big defeats but i'm hoping we've turned the corner confidence wise. As long as it was confidence, as opposed to the players being totally confused by what he wants. If we hadn't dumped 2 managers in the last 2 seasons i'd probably be on his back more, but i really haven't got the stomach for another round of manager recruitment and as many have pointed out - name someone who can take over who's guaranteed to improve things without big money?
End of the day if we continue to ship shed loads of goals, it won't matter what anyone thinks. He'll be a goner. You can't survive letting in 17 goals every 4 games unless you're scoring 18.
If you are a poor side, which we are you need to be organised at the very least and we are very very definitely not that for sure.
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I am not in favour of sacking Lambert in anyway and he deserves a season at the very least but my god have we looked worse this season than last which I thought was impossible. We have even looked so absolutely inept to the point of being defensively one, if not the worst teams I can remember seeing in the premiership. So the fans do absolutely deserve to criticise where we are now and what Lambert is doing. Does he deserve the sack? Not yet but he does seem to be trying very hard
Thats pretty much my position. Swansea first half was as bad as the other big defeats but i'm hoping we've turned the corner confidence wise. As long as it was confidence, as opposed to the players being totally confused by what he wants. If we hadn't dumped 2 managers in the last 2 seasons i'd probably be on his back more, but i really haven't got the stomach for another round of manager recruitment and as many have pointed out - name someone who can take over who's guaranteed to improve things without big money?
End of the day if we continue to ship shed loads of goals, it won't matter what anyone thinks. He'll be a goner. You can't survive letting in 17 goals every 4 games unless you're scoring 18.
If you are a poor side, which we are you need to be organised at the very least and we are very very definitely not that for sure.
yep. In his defence they're young and some are out of position but still........no-one's expecting miracles but basic marking would be a start.
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I am a twat.
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I've rumbled you. It's the online version of street theatre.
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I've rumbled you. It's the online version of street theatre.
You're warm.
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I definitely think we need to shift to four at the back, I think when we play 5 we almost end up tripping over our collective feet. You need to trust the four at the back(with the addition of a centre half) and now that hopefully Bennett can push on from his display.
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I am a twat.
Tsk.
That's not very catchy, I preferred that hilarious 'big bollocks' catchphrase you had.
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I definitely think we need to shift to four at the back, I think when we play 5 we almost end up tripping over our collective feet. You need to trust the four at the back(with the addition of a centre half) and now that hopefully Bennett can push on from his display.
Yeah I agree. I think the 5 at the back was needs must and it worked initially, but as we saw, once a few weaves start coming out, it unravels too quickly. Our defence is just shit, period, so I'd rather have more players ahead of the defence trying to score more goals.
If we get Lescott, then a back four would work. We need a strong presence to hold the defence together. Someone solid, reliable. Lescott alongside Vlaar or Baker could work well. Clarks a little too patchy and I wouldn't mind seeing him rested for a bit.
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Hehehe. Nice word filter mods.
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Can I post a link to a Lambert article I wrote today? It's about his make-or-break January. You can check it out here: http://pickourteam.com/premierleague/news/07-01-2013/lambert-heading-for-january-epiphany/810516
It goes without saying comment will be digested and appreciated.
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Can I post a link to a Lambert article I wrote today? It's about his make-or-break January. You can check it out here: http://pickourteam.com/premierleague/news/07-01-2013/lambert-heading-for-january-epiphany/810516
It goes without saying comment will be digested and appreciated.
NO
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"The Christmas tinsel is back in its box and the BBC is handing back G.O.L.D. and its Morecambe and Wise box set as we speak"
???
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"The Christmas tinsel is back in its box and the BBC is handing back G.O.L.D. and its Morecambe and Wise box set as we speak"
???
That's been messed about with. I got it right when I sent the article off!
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Really hope it dosen't happen but tbh not beating a league 2 side over two legs in a semi final and losing to Southampton and WBA would be sackable offence imo.
Question would be timing with January transfer window but we'd still have 15 league games to get enough points to stay up and start again. People were advocating sacking TSM after the bolton game when we were very much in relegation danger with just 3 league games left after all!
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In my article I do stress that the Southampton game takes on huge importance because it can really point us in the right direction. Of course there is time for us to win it, and against the Baggies and the Barcodes and still go down but I would find it hugely unlikely that if we clawed our way out of danger we would slip back again, just because I expect if we did it, we'd have reinforced by then with a bit of quality.
To my mind, seven points from the next three in the league is very much acceptable. There are only three league games in Feb and March has never been a good month for us. We could also have a League Cup Final hangover, should we make it there.
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Really hope it dosen't happen but tbh not beating a league 2 side over two legs in a semi final and losing to Southampton and WBA would be sackable offence imo.
Question would be timing with January transfer window but we'd still have 15 league games to get enough points to stay up and start again. People were advocating sacking TSM after the bolton game when we were very much in relegation danger with just 3 league games left after all!
That was a reflection of the sheer desperation of the situation with three games left, though.
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So, Lambert out?
That's more humiliating than the 8-0.
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Lerner out.
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So, Lambert out?
That's more humiliating than the 8-0.
It's not quite record-ever-defeat-embarrassing as we still have the 2nd leg to claw it back but it's certainly shambolic. Where's that 'Proud to be a Villa fan' thread? I've never been so ashamed of the club.
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25% to the sack.
I'd fire him if we don't turn around the second leg, lose at West Brom and don't beat Southampton.
Big two weeks coming up.
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Don't matter if he is sacked or not the club is a mess
3 years now we have been poor this was icing on the cake
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Worst result in generations, just after our worst set of results.
If that persuade him to offer his resignation then it begs the question how much worse does it need to get?
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That result is as bad as I remember, just humiliating. We've been embarrassed in front of the nation again.
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anyone remember this statement
"We need to be clear and candid with ourselves and with supporters about what we have lacked in recent years," Lerner said. "Compelling play and results that instil a sense of confidence that Villa is on the right track have been plainly absent. The most immediate action that we can take is to look carefully at our options in terms of bringing in a new manager who sees the club's potential and embraces our collective expectations."
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Lose to Soton and he should go. Have said so since the Wigan game. Even his own signings aren't playing for him FFS!
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He's shown nothing so far to make me feel he's even better than McLeish. And if the Ginger one had been producing the kind of dross Lambert has, he'd have been hung from the tallest lampost in Witton by now.
He hasn't got a clue
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That result is as bad as I remember, just humiliating. We've been embarrassed in front of the nation again.
Yup, just when you think things can't get any worse, Villa play on TV and make us the punchline of every joke in the office for the next couple of weeks.
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That result is as bad as I remember, just humiliating. We've been embarrassed in front of the nation again.
Yup, just when you think things can't get any worse, Villa play on TV and make us the punchline of every joke in the office for the next couple of weeks.
What is it about us on TV?
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The thing in his favour is the crowd by and large is still supportive at the games.
I believe that will change if we go limply out in the second leg, I believe that will be a tipping point.
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Who would you get in? We'd be in the same position, squad is massivly under-funded, players are not good enough.
Is it Lambert's fault that Delph and Bannan keep giving the ball away, putting pressure on a defence that piss poor at best of time. He needs to get players in if Lerner will give him the cash. Game after game shipping goals, we carry on for much longer, we are down.
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If we don't win Southampton on sunday he has to go.
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The thing in his favour is the crowd by and large is still supportive at the games.
I think it's just blind General Krulak style optimism. I don't think many can accept he's turned out even worse than Big Eck
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If we don't win Southampton on sunday he has to go.
We'll probably turn up Sunday, but we're playing Saturday.
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Sacking him now would be nuts, but you have to say, if we go down badly against Southampton (and think what our morale must be like right now) on Saturday, then you start to think there's a build up of momentum that says he can't not be sacked.
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He's a joke. Fuck him off. Clues less ******.
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If we don't win Southampton on sunday he has to go.
We'll probably turn up Sunday, but we're playing Saturday.
Whops, got brainfart.
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The thing in his favour is the crowd by and large is still supportive at the games.
I believe that will change if we go limply out in the second leg, I believe that will be a tipping point.
Did you not hear the boos at the end of tonight's match? Not much support there I'm afraid, and the away boys and girls are usually the last to turn.
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Genuinely worried about him for the first time now.
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We probably need 5 wins and a few draws in the league to stay up. I think we have a better chance with a new manager than PL. just look and listen to him, he is utterly lost. Any pretence of long term planning goes out of the window if we are relegated. He'd be sacked anyway.
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If we don't win Southampton on sunday he has to go.
I agree and I think that's fair. He's had long enough.
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Why do some keep saying that sacking him is wrong or nuts or a joke.
He is presiding over catastrophe after catastrophe.
That is not all because of bad luck, injuries and lack of investment.
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Sacking him now would be nuts, but you have to say, if we go down badly against Southampton (and think what our morale must be like right now) on Saturday, then you start to think there's a build up of momentum that says he can't not be sacked.
We need 5 wins to stay up. Lose to Southampton and I'd have no confidence Lambert would be capable of achieving that.
Changing manager time after time is not idea of course but we'll find the right one one day.
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If we don't win Southampton on sunday he has to go.
I agree and I think that's fair. He's had long enough.
Yeah he's had al lof 20 odd games the useless sod. Wibble.
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I would imagine he has lost the crowd now.You can say what you want about players but the tatics are shit time and time again.Listening to Saunders on Sky now and he is pointing out our flaws and its so simple.
The mdfield tonight was a shambles again just like Wigan.
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Sacking him now would be nuts, but you have to say, if we go down badly against Southampton (and think what our morale must be like right now) on Saturday, then you start to think there's a build up of momentum that says he can't not be sacked.
It's getting to point where we almost have to take the desperate measure of sacking him in the hope that the new manager can get enough points to keep us up. How on earth did we get here?
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If we don't win Southampton on sunday he has to go.
I agree and I think that's fair. He's had long enough.
Yeah he's had al lof 20 odd games the useless sod. .
And he is doing much much worse than TSM who didn't get much longer!
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If we don't win Southampton on sunday he has to go.
I agree and I think that's fair. He's had long enough.
Yeah he's had al lof 20 odd games the useless sod. .
Ok you've convinced me. Lets keep him and watch the slide to oblivion continue.
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I don't think that Lerners got it in him to sack a manager mid season but a loss at the weekend may just turn the fans.
Lambert has failed to rally the team after Chelsea and that worries me. We seem as clueless on the pitch now as at any time in recent seasons but I do feel that we have played well enough at times this season to turn it around. That all depends on the team's mental approach - that's my main concern at the moment and leads back to the manager.
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If Lambert doesn't buy at least one proper midfielder by the game against WBA I'm gonna be convinced that he's fucking clueless. How in the hell he could keep Bannan and Delph on after yet another shambolic performance by those "players" is beyond my comprehension.
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Sacking him now would be nuts, but you have to say, if we go down badly against Southampton (and think what our morale must be like right now) on Saturday, then you start to think there's a build up of momentum that says he can't not be sacked.
We need 5 wins to stay up. Lose to Southampton and I'd have no confidence Lambert would be capable of achieving that.
Changing manager time after time is not idea of course but we'll find the right one one day.
It needs to be the correct 5 wins though. I would have happily suffered an 8-0 to Liverpool before Xmas if it meant we beat Wigan. We could beat Manure, Chelski, Citeh and Liverpool again, but if we lose to QPR, Southampton, Reading, and Wigan we won't actually make any ground up against them.
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The thing in his favour is the crowd by and large is still supportive at the games.
I believe that will change if we go limply out in the second leg, I believe that will be a tipping point.
Did you not hear the boos at the end of tonight's match? Not much support there I'm afraid, and the away boys and girls are usually the last to turn.
I heard a couple of PL'S C&B chants during the game. There were boos at the end of the Wigan game aswell.
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I was a believer in the Lambert Plan. But if we don't beat S'ton (a draw is not good enough), he has got to go. Least embarrassing of the options.
I have lived thru the second division relegation days, the Turner days, the McNeill days, but never before was Aston Villa a National Joke.
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O'Leary got turned on for performances that weren't as consistently poor as this. Admittedly he had better players than we have now, though this in itself shows just how badly wrong things have gone wrong under Lerner.
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This isn't with the benefit of hindsight but I was never sure why people were so desperate for him to become the manager of Aston Villa, was it simply a case of anybody will do as long as it's not Mcleish?
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Why does he sit there like he's bored shitless?
I thought he'd be someone who had a bit of fight in them. It's like he's given up on them and can't be bothered to carry on and he'd happily take the sack.
I didn't think this was the manager we were getting. I thought it'd be a young, invigorating manager who had new ways that we could all enjoy and share in.
The way it's going, we will not be in a cup final and will get relegated.
I do not know what he can do to change it. Seems to me the players have the same amount of respect for him as Houllier and TSM.
I'd give him until after the next leg and then take it from there.
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I wonder who'd be stupid enough to take the job if Lambert got sacked at this point.
We've got a squad full of Championship players and players who have underperformed for 2-3 years now, mostly on reasonably long contracts. A manager isn't going to be able to move these on any time soon, certainly not in January, and how many players would a new manager be able to sign without getting rid of the players currently on the payroll?
At this point I think a new manager would just be coming in to complete Lambert's job of relegating us. Seems like a pretty thankless task.
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This isn't with the benefit of hindsight but I was never sure why people were so desperate for him to become the manager of Aston Villa, was it simply a case of anybody will do as long as it's not Mcleish?
Yep, and that's the only reason he hasn't got dog's abuse this season. People keep harping on about how they can see Lambert has a plan, but I think tonight has shown on top of other recent performances that he hasn't got a clue.
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There are bound to be boos after tonight, but I think he will still have the support of the crowd going into the weekend. Play badly and lose though, and I reckon its going to get very difficult for him. Trouble is, sack him, with 2 weeks of the window left, you have to appoint very quickly, and then give them some money very quickly. For me it is better to sit him down and say how much do we need and which players. over the age of 25 will lead us out of this.
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I still don't think getting rid of Lambert will solve anything. As I've said before: I'd rather be on a rickety ship made of wood with the man who built it, than a fantastic cruise liner controlled by a passenger.
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If Lambert doesn't buy at least one proper midfielder by the game against WBA I'm gonna be convinced that he's fucking clueless. How in the hell he could keep Bannan and Delph on after yet another shambolic performance by those "players" is beyond my comprehension.
That's the thing.
If we somehow survive this season then I think to future seasons when we might have a better team and will hopefully be competiting in the right half of the league. I think who out of the current squad who will still be playing in a couple of years time in a better team. I think of Guzan, Benteke, Weimann, Lowton and then I come to midfield, a total shambles.
I do think Westwood is a potential class act but Bannan and Delph are championship standard footballers imo, the way our midfield has declined so much in two years sums up our decline.
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This isn't with the benefit of hindsight but I was never sure why people were so desperate for him to become the manager of Aston Villa, was it simply a case of anybody will do as long as it's not Mcleish?
Yep, and that's the only reason he hasn't got dog's abuse this season. People keep harping on about how they can see Lambert has a plan, but I think tonight has shown on top of other recent performances that he hasn't got a clue.
Before he came I was much more sceptical than most, the MON thing and his defense at Norwich was leaky, but I like his idea of building from the bottom up. He has been hit with the squad he took over being significantly more shit than he estimated though I think.
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TBH, I'm still for him (just), but I do wonder what he and Lerner have been doing for the last two months in identifying players required in January. We knew we didn't have a massive squad and even if everyone was fit, would have needed to get some players in this month anyway. Targets should have been lined up early, especially with the run of games we had over Xmas and into the first half of this month. Yet we are lead to believe that the discussions on transfer was done the day after the Wigan game.
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This isn't with the benefit of hindsight but I was never sure why people were so desperate for him to become the manager of Aston Villa, was it simply a case of anybody will do as long as it's not Mcleish?
Yep, and that's the only reason he hasn't got dog's abuse this season. People keep harping on about how they can see Lambert has a plan, but I think tonight has shown on top of other recent performances that he hasn't got a clue.
Tonight's result is adding evidence to your argument about PL.
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Right I'm going to ultra harsh and down the line on this, there are four/five players who might/would get in other premier league teams at the moment. They are -
Guzan
Lowton
Weimann
Benteke
Bent
One of those are manager doesn't even play.
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I have to say out ..has he got the best players at his disposals ..no but fuck me after half a season you think they would be drilled enough to follow some kind of tatics.We are all over the place every match.The defenders ball watch and chase around like headless chickens pulled out of position.
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I've launched a spirited defence of the manager before but after what I've have seen tonight I can no longer defend the indefensible.
It is not the opposition, the competition or indeed the result but the attitude. The half arsed attempt from Baker to clear his lines for the second goal did it for me. Players should run through brick walls for Aston Villa, I expect the manager to make that clear. Tonight the players didn't look particularly bothered but most damning of all, nor did the manager. A team plays in the image of it's manager.
We may get to Wembley, we may even stay up, but tonight, Paul Lambert looked nothing like an Aston Villa manager.
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The only good thing about this manager is that when he makes his excuses for the players and his excuses for himself I can't understand a f*cking word he is saying.
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There are bound to be boos after tonight, but I think he will still have the support of the crowd going into the weekend. Play badly and lose though, and I reckon its going to get very difficult for him. Trouble is, sack him, with 2 weeks of the window left, you have to appoint very quickly, and then give them some money very quickly. For me it is better to sit him down and say how much do we need and which players. over the age of 25 will lead us out of this.
But Lambert hasn't any experience of being in this position Oz. He put together a decent team who came up through the divisions together, with no real pressure on them. This is an entirely different situation, Lambert bought a lot of the players who have got us into this position, so I have little confidence that even if given some decent cash that he'd be able to identify and sign the players we need to stay up. He certainly can't organise or motivate the players we have at the moment.
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This isn't with the benefit of hindsight but I was never sure why people were so desperate for him to become the manager of Aston Villa, was it simply a case of anybody will do as long as it's not Mcleish?
Yep, and that's the only reason he hasn't got dog's abuse this season. People keep harping on about how they can see Lambert has a plan, but I think tonight has shown on top of other recent performances that he hasn't got a clue.
Agree with you
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Westwood is a potential star, but let's not forget, he was playing at Crewe until recently, so there's still a way to go till he can totally prove himself.
I just look at that squad and see so many who patently are not up to it, and it scares me to death. Then there's the fact that, maybe some of the younger players we have bought or grown will be good enough one day, but they're currently getting destroyed week in, week out, which is going to ruin any chance they have.
I'd gladly never see Fabian Delph in a Villa shirt again. Did we really pay £6m for him? Really? Bannan, too, seems to spend most matches trying to hit ridiculous Hollywood passes.
Just utter shite.
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There are bound to be boos after tonight, but I think he will still have the support of the crowd going into the weekend. Play badly and lose though, and I reckon its going to get very difficult for him. Trouble is, sack him, with 2 weeks of the window left, you have to appoint very quickly, and then give them some money very quickly. For me it is better to sit him down and say how much do we need and which players. over the age of 25 will lead us out of this.
Agreed.
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I've launched a spirited defence of the manager before but after what I've have seen tonight I can no longer defend the indefensible.
It is not the opposition, the competition or indeed the result but the attitude. The half arsed attempt from Baker to clear his lines for the second goal did it for me. Players should run through brick walls for Aston Villa, I expect the manager to make that clear. Tonight the players didn't look particularly bothered but most damning of all, nor did the manager. A team plays in the image of it's manager.
We may get to Wembley, we may even stay up, but tonight, Paul Lambert looked nothing like an Aston Villa manager.
You know, this actually looks nothing like an Aston Villa team.
Really.
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He's shown nothing so far to make me feel he's even better than McLeish. And if the Ginger one had been producing the kind of dross Lambert has, he'd have been hung from the tallest lampost in Witton by now.
He hasn't got a clue
Thank you TSM
SLB - hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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Westwood is a potential star, but let's not forget, he was playing at Crewe until recently, so there's still a way to go till he can totally prove himself.
I just look at that squad and see so many who patently are not up to it, and it scares me to death. Then there's the fact that, maybe some of the younger players we have bought or grown will be good enough one day, but they're currently getting destroyed week in, week out, which is going to ruin any chance they have.
I'd gladly never see Fabian Delph in a Villa shirt again. Did we really pay £6m for him? Really? Bannan, too, seems to spend most matches trying to hit ridiculous Hollywood passes.
Just utter shite.
Westwood I do like, but he should be put in gradually like you say not our best midfielder.
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He's shown nothing so far to make me feel he's even better than McLeish. And if the Ginger one had been producing the kind of dross Lambert has, he'd have been hung from the tallest lampost in Witton by now.
He hasn't got a clue
Thank you TSM
He's right though.
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If we go out then he should walk.
He's been dealt a bad hand, but has made it worse. Chopping and changing managers is not something I would advocate, but sometimes you need to call it how you see it.
The kids are not good enough and are taking us down.
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I'm angry tonight. Massively angry. The most disappointing feeling is that I don't really give two shits anymore. These lot earn more in a week than most of us do in a year. I have spent far far too long getting wound up by this shower.
I'm trying to tell myself 'it's just a pigskin, its just a pigskin'. With what else happens in life I'm rey completely over getting wound up by this useless bunch.
Good luck to Bradford, they deserved it and I hope they beat Chelsea or Swansea.
Meanwhile, the villa team should all donate there wages to a charity after that!!
Joke
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
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I just keep asking myself. How is he going to turn this around? We are bad in some many departments that it like juggling plates right now, you fix one bit and something falls somewhere else.
How can it be that, having shipped a hat full of goals over Xmas, our defence seems still as seemingly inept. How can it be that, having hoofed the ball upwards, diagonally and sideways over Xmas, we still are doing it? What is being taught to these players? What do we do on a Monday morning at Bodymoor following another dicking?
I want to believe he is the man, but I just cannot fathom it right now and the word humiliation is one I've had to use far too often this season.... Something I did not have to use under TSM.
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If Lambert doesn't buy at least one proper midfielder by the game against WBA I'm gonna be convinced that he's fucking clueless. How in the hell he could keep Bannan and Delph on after yet another shambolic performance by those "players" is beyond my comprehension.
That's the thing.
If we somehow survive this season then I think to future seasons when we might have a better team and will hopefully be competiting in the right half of the league. I think who out of the current squad who will still be playing in a couple of years time in a better team. I think of Guzan, Benteke, Weimann, Lowton and then I come to midfield, a total shambles.
I do think Westwood is a potential class act but Bannan and Delph are championship standard footballers imo, the way our midfield has declined so much in two years sums up our decline.
Bannan and Delph are not even that. Westwood is only midfielder I'd play, he has potential to be classy midfielder but he needs someone much better side by him than those two asshats. Fuck, we need Vlaar back too, and new central defender.
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Delighted to see that Guardiola has decided the time is right to return to management.
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I just want a bit of stability. How about this, MON bails and we wobble, Houllier comes in, clears some out brings some in, he bails when his heart goes, we bring in Mcleish, he clears some out brings some in, gets the boot, Lambert comes in clears some out brings some in...
Who in their right mind would come and join us with that worrying trend? Who could we convince to leave their current job just to let history repeat itself? The team's pretty much been picking itself because of injuries and we need a couple of shrewd January signings to keep the wolf from the door, that's all.
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Delighted to see that Guardiola has decided the time is right to return to management.
Nobody will convince me that that's a coincidence.
I reckon he's been plotting our results and performances, and had his technical team calculate the best point at which to announce his return to the game, all so he can bag the big B6 job.
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Can we reset the poll please so that I can vote again?
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Oh if only!!!!
Turn Bannan and Delph into Xavi and Iniesta......
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I just want a bit of stability. How about this, MON bails and we wobble, Houllier comes in, clears some out brings some in, he bails when his heart goes, we bring in Mcleish, he clears some out brings some in, gets the boot, Lambert comes in clears some out brings some in...
Who in their right mind would come and join us with that worrying trend? Who could we convince to leave their current job just to let history repeat itself? The team's pretty much been picking itself because of injuries and we need a couple of shrewd January signings to keep the wolf from the door, that's all.
I subscribe to this view, but you have to admit he's not exactly doing a good job, is he? The whole thing is just an awful mess and has been since Pubehead spat his dummy.
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
The problem is any new manager will still have the same squad that we have now which is a culmination of the dross purchased by MON, GH, TSM and now PL.
They say every manager gets a few transfers wrong, we are stuck with what's left of four managers wrong decisions, plus the kids and Lambert's decent ones.
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What's the point in sacking him?
Who the fuck would come with this squad.
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
I don't see the point though. Lerner won't allow any manager to sign PL standard players. He wants a team full of lower league players on practically YTS wages. That why we're in trouble.
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Even if he is given money to buy players in the window and even if decent players would want to come the damage has already been done. There is no spirit, no leadership, no self belief, no self respect. You could put James Milner and Gareth Barry and Ashley Young and Stewart Downing back in that side and it would continue to lose because the club, the team and the manager have all lost their way. From the minute I saw our team walk on the pitch on Boxing Day I knew they were f*cked and we were f*cked. Their attitude, their body language their entire physical presence screamed out that nothing had been done to wipe the Chelsea slate clean. That 8-0 hug around their necks like an albatross on Boxing Day and it hangs around them still. Paul Lambert has totally failed to lift and direct a young and naive team. Like I said on another thread watching this Villa team is like looking in a classroom of children with no teacher trying to educate themselves.
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
I don't see the point though. Lerner won't allow any manager to sign PL standard players. He wants a team full of lower league players on practically YTS wages. That why we're in trouble.
That's the thing a lot of people don't seem to get.
Yes, blah blah blah, Lambert bought these players, but if he's been given a restrictive wage bill to work with - and this is the club which have spent three years talking about nothing BUT the wage bill, so it doesn't take much of a trip of the imagination - then he's going to be limited in the sort of player he can get in.
It doesn't excuse everything that has gone on, far from it, but really, the mix of youth and experience as a result of that policy is totally, totally wrong.
Whoever it was at the club who thought so many of our youth products would all turn out to be good enough was absolutely fucking nuts, because so far this season, they've suggested totally the opposite.
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I only want a manger that will, at the very least, motivate and inspire players to give it maximum effort. I will draw your attention to it again. Nathan Baker for the second goal, slow, ponderous and not really bothered. Now we can hang the player, but what will that achieve? He should have ran for his life, as if his life depended on it.
I hate to draw comparisons, but the regardless of money and status, the very best can do it. Is it too much to ask the very average to as well?
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Can we reset the poll please so that I can vote again?
Done a long time ago. Click on remove vote.
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
The problem is any new manager will still have the same squad that we have now which is a culmination of the dross purchased by MON, GH, TSM and now PL.
They say every manager gets a few transfers wrong, we are stuck with what's left of four managers wrong decisions, plus the kids and Lambert's decent ones.
I'd hope for a new manager bounce. Debatable whether we had that with Lambert but we did win vs Swansea and got a decent point at Newcastle in his first 4 games.
We need to win 5 games to survive. Southampton, QPR, Fulham and Newcastle at home and Reading away are the ones I'm looking at.
If we don't beat Southampton, I don't have much faith we'll win many more under lambert tbh.
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Bennett is bad, but my word - our central midfielders and centre backs are absolutely terrible.
Bannan, Delph, Clark and Baker. None of them are good enough. Baker you can forgive, he's very raw. But the others have no excuses at the minute.
Let's hope Vlaar is close and Dunne is in shape to play when he's fit.
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
I don't see the point though. Lerner won't allow any manager to sign PL standard players. He wants a team full of lower league players on practically YTS wages. That why we're in trouble.
That's the thing a lot of people don't seem to get.
Yes, blah blah blah, Lambert bought these players, but if he's been given a restrictive wage bill to work with - and this is the club which have spent three years talking about nothing BUT the wage bill, so it doesn't take much of a trip of the imagination - then he's going to be limited in the sort of player he can get in.
It doesn't excuse everything that has gone on, far from it, but really, the mix of youth and experience as a result of that policy is totally, totally wrong.
Whoever it was at the club who thought so many of our youth products would all turn out to be good enough was absolutely fucking nuts, because so far this season, they've suggested totally the opposite.
That buck stop's with Paul Faulkner.He run's the fucking shambles.He has to go and quick.
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It is a horrible situation right now.
I can't see how sacking him would be more likely to fix things than sticking with him, especially not given the fact we're 8 days into the January window. Then again, I can't see how Lambert can manage a sequence of results like we've just had and not feel obliged to offer his resignation.
Ever since the Liverpool result, we've genuinely been an absolute laughing stock, and the annoying thing is that so much of it has been live on telly to the nation. being embarrassed like that isn't a bag of laughs.
What's even less funny is the realisation that you can't see what could possibly make it stop, other than the end of the season.
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
I don't see the point though. Lerner won't allow any manager to sign PL standard players. He wants a team full of lower league players on practically YTS wages. That why we're in trouble.
That's the thing a lot of people don't seem to get.
Yes, blah blah blah, Lambert bought these players, but if he's been given a restrictive wage bill to work with - and this is the club which have spent three years talking about nothing BUT the wage bill, so it doesn't take much of a trip of the imagination - then he's going to be limited in the sort of player he can get in.
It doesn't excuse everything that has gone on, far from it, but really, the mix of youth and experience as a result of that policy is totally, totally wrong.
Whoever it was at the club who thought so many of our youth products would all turn out to be good enough was absolutely fucking nuts, because so far this season, they've suggested totally the opposite.
That buck stop's with Paul Faulkner.He run's the fucking shambles.He has to go and quick.
I disagree. Faulkner may well be doing a shit job, but if someone does a shit job, month after month, year after year, it's the guy who appoints him and fails to dismiss him who should be held accountable.
By his state of continued employment at the club, I can only assume Faulkner is living up to Lerner's expectations.
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
I don't see the point though. Lerner won't allow any manager to sign PL standard players. He wants a team full of lower league players on practically YTS wages. That why we're in trouble.
That's the thing a lot of people don't seem to get.
Yes, blah blah blah, Lambert bought these players, but if he's been given a restrictive wage bill to work with - and this is the club which have spent three years talking about nothing BUT the wage bill, so it doesn't take much of a trip of the imagination - then he's going to be limited in the sort of player he can get in.
Had Clint Dempsey agreed to join us in the summer am I to assume we'd have offered him £20k a week?
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I honestly can't see how we'd possibly be any worse under almost any manager you could care to mention. It just hasn't worked with Lambert. I take the point about the wage restrictions etc, but the fact is that he can't organise the players he has. Bennett looks about as ready for the Premier League as my four year old son.
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Am I right in thinking the club have sent Dunne to America to get him fit?
Hopefully that's not just to keep him away from the place. We could do with him (and Vlaar) in the defence at the minute. We should even look at Warnock.
Hutton can stay at home.
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Delighted to see that Guardiola has decided the time is right to return to management.
Nobody will convince me that that's a coincidence.
I reckon he's been plotting our results and performances, and had his technical team calculate the best point at which to announce his return to the game, all so he can bag the big B6 job.
Coupled with the fact he speaks better English than Lambert, David Villa, Dani Alves & Alexis Sanchez being linked with moves away its going to be one hell of a 2013. Will Neymar partner Bowery or Villa?
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I'm no fan of Faulkner but Lambert was a popular choice. The problem is it doesn't always work, we knew TSM wouldn't work but up until tonight I thought TOSM would.
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
I don't see the point though. Lerner won't allow any manager to sign PL standard players. He wants a team full of lower league players on practically YTS wages. That why we're in trouble.
That's the thing a lot of people don't seem to get.
Yes, blah blah blah, Lambert bought these players, but if he's been given a restrictive wage bill to work with - and this is the club which have spent three years talking about nothing BUT the wage bill, so it doesn't take much of a trip of the imagination - then he's going to be limited in the sort of player he can get in.
It doesn't excuse everything that has gone on, far from it, but really, the mix of youth and experience as a result of that policy is totally, totally wrong.
Whoever it was at the club who thought so many of our youth products would all turn out to be good enough was absolutely fucking nuts, because so far this season, they've suggested totally the opposite.
That buck stop's with Paul Faulkner.He run's the fucking shambles.He has to go and quick.
I disagree. Faulkner may well be doing a shit job, but if someone does a shit job, month after month, year after year, it's the guy who appoints him and fails to dismiss him who should be held accountable.
By his state of continued employment at the club, I can only assume Faulkner is living up to Lerner's expectations.
More like Randy is his best mate.He has lost his wife,but he dosn't want to lose his footie buddy.
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
I don't see the point though. Lerner won't allow any manager to sign PL standard players. He wants a team full of lower league players on practically YTS wages. That why we're in trouble.
That's the thing a lot of people don't seem to get.
Yes, blah blah blah, Lambert bought these players, but if he's been given a restrictive wage bill to work with - and this is the club which have spent three years talking about nothing BUT the wage bill, so it doesn't take much of a trip of the imagination - then he's going to be limited in the sort of player he can get in.
Had Clint Dempsey agreed to join us in the summer am I to assume we'd have offered him £20k a week?
It doesn't matter, does it, because it never got that far.
We don't just need one player on Dempsey style money, either, we need several, and really quickly.
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Blame Faulkner yes, its a wider problem and one we will likely still be suffering from in a few seasons.
But its the manager that is taking is down at the minute and getting us bounced out of the cup by 4th division side.
His selections and system makes no sense and leaves a brittle spine in disaray.
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I'm no fan of Faulkner but Lambert was a popular choice. The problem is it doesn't always work, we knew TSM wouldn't work but up until tonight I thought TOSM would.
TOSM, ha ha! Or TEWTTSMSM (The even worse than The Scottish Manager Scottish Manager!)
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Blame Faulkner yes, its a wider problem and one we will likely still be suffering from in a few seasons.
But its the manager that is taking is down at the minute and getting us bounced out of the cup by 4th division side.
His selections and system makes no sense and leaves a brittle spine in disaray.
And he can go and fuck himself as well. I'm going to bed.
Keep the faith brothers.
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TOSM. Very good.
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Blame Faulkner yes, its a wider problem and one we will likely still be suffering from in a few seasons.
But its the manager that is taking is down at the minute and getting us bounced out of the cup by 4th division side.
His selections and system makes no sense and leaves a brittle spine in disaray.
I don't disagree that the teams (lack of) performance is totally his fault, but it's not like he has much choice in terms of selection? He picked a good, positive team tonight. They're just not good enough.
Obviously he should take the blame for a lot of that, he spent a fair bit but he got it wrong.
We either need to sack him and replace him immediately, or do what we did 2 years ago and have Lerner bail us out with 2 or 3 signings.
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TOSM. Very good.
It sounds good if you say it aloud as well.
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Should we lose to Soton I expect the crowd will turn like they did at Bolton last season.
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
I don't see the point though. Lerner won't allow any manager to sign PL standard players. He wants a team full of lower league players on practically YTS wages. That why we're in trouble.
That's the thing a lot of people don't seem to get.
Yes, blah blah blah, Lambert bought these players, but if he's been given a restrictive wage bill to work with - and this is the club which have spent three years talking about nothing BUT the wage bill, so it doesn't take much of a trip of the imagination - then he's going to be limited in the sort of player he can get in.
It doesn't excuse everything that has gone on, far from it, but really, the mix of youth and experience as a result of that policy is totally, totally wrong.
Whoever it was at the club who thought so many of our youth products would all turn out to be good enough was absolutely fucking nuts, because so far this season, they've suggested totally the opposite.
Paulie - this was apparent two seasons ago under Houllier and it has been the same since. It is not a coincidence that everytime in the past three seasons that the 'youngsters' have featured over a number of games, we have dropped into the relegation zone. It is also not a coincidence that when they have go on loan to lower league clubs, none of them were really regular starters for those teams.
Like you, I think Lerner and Faulkner were advised by somebody at the club (possibly MacDonald) that the Academy was excellent and relying on these players was the way to go. You would like to think that they have seen the error of their ways.
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Should we lose to Soton I expect the crowd will turn like they did at Bolton last season.
Really, if we lose to Southampton, then I think he can't complain if he gets the bullet.
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Can't be arsed to think about this anymore right now, im goin to bed to dream of Rotterdam 82!
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Should we lose to Soton I expect the crowd will turn like they did at Bolton last season.
:(
What an absolute shambles.
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Should we lose to Soton I expect the crowd will turn like they did at Bolton last season.
Really, if we lose to Southampton, then I think he can't complain if he gets the bullet.
I have a feeling Southampton might have more organisation spirit and fight than us.
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A new manager (and yes who is the obvious question) might not save us, but its pretty clear that this car crash of a season is getting worse and I am pretty certain will end up with us relegated in 20th place. I'd rather take a chance that someone may be able to save us on a caretaker basis.
RDM, hell even curbs can't do any worse than this. Just how bad does it have to get?
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And if they do, can we trust them to pick another manager? Christ that is a frightening prospect. We all thought Lambert was a great choice but for them to have to do it again. Oh Jesus, I don't think I could go through with that. What a mess.
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Can't be arsed to think about this anymore right now, im goin to bed to dream of Rotterdam 82!
Wanking material.
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I'm wavering towards changing my vote, massive pressure against Southampton now. I don't even know who we'd get in as manager instead, but this is only ending up one way if things carry on like this.
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Should we lose to Soton I expect the crowd will turn like they did at Bolton last season.
Really, if we lose to Southampton, then I think he can't complain if he gets the bullet.
I have a feeling Southampton might have more organisation spirit and fight than us.
They also have some decent attacking players. Lambert will lead the line, Ramirez will float in the hole just behind him (not a clue who in midfield will pick him up) and Puncheon and Do Prado, two pacey wide players will have enjoying watching Hines ripping Bennett to shreds. I expect Stevens to be the left back on Saturday.
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
I don't see the point though. Lerner won't allow any manager to sign PL standard players. He wants a team full of lower league players on practically YTS wages. That why we're in trouble.
That's the thing a lot of people don't seem to get.
Yes, blah blah blah, Lambert bought these players, but if he's been given a restrictive wage bill to work with - and this is the club which have spent three years talking about nothing BUT the wage bill, so it doesn't take much of a trip of the imagination - then he's going to be limited in the sort of player he can get in.
Had Clint Dempsey agreed to join us in the summer am I to assume we'd have offered him £20k a week?
It doesn't matter, does it, because it never got that far.
We don't just need one player on Dempsey style money, either, we need several, and really quickly.
The fact remains that were after him and it's widely reported he's on £85k a week at Spurs.
Like all clubs the wage bill is an issue with the possible exception of Man City. To pretend otherwise is nonsense. Sadly we have shite players on huge wages (Ireland, N'Zogbia, Given, Delph, Dunne etc) that we don't need. It's the manager's job to choose who he wants within his budget but it's also his responsibility to convince his chairman they are worth it and he'll get the best out of them.
To simplify it, we've bought some seriously over priced, over paid shite and we need to get rid of them to free up the wage bill. Either that or the manager gets them performing to their cost value.
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
The problem is any new manager will still have the same squad that we have now which is a culmination of the dross purchased by MON, GH, TSM and now PL.
They say every manager gets a few transfers wrong, we are stuck with what's left of four managers wrong decisions, plus the kids and Lambert's decent ones.
I'd hope for a new manager bounce. Debatable whether we had that with Lambert but we did win vs Swansea and got a decent point at Newcastle in his first 4 games.
We need to win 5 games to survive. Southampton, QPR, Fulham and Newcastle at home and Reading away are the ones I'm looking at.
If we don't beat Southampton, I don't have much faith we'll win many more under lambert tbh.
And QPR was supposed to have a new manager bounce yet it took how many matches to record their first win after 'Arry joined. The bounce normally only happens if the players are good enough but just don't want to perform for the manager. These ones are just not good enough or are just lacking so much in confidence that they are as good as useless. Confidence across one player might just be fixed by a change of manager, (Benitez and Torres maybe), across so many kids would need someone like Fergie and even he would struggle.
Unless we buy well and wisely, we are down no matter who is the manager. Lambert seems to have shown with Benteke, Lowton, Westwood and making the decision to recover Guzan that he can get decent players in. Unfortunately KEA and Bennett shows he can make mistakes as well. The jury is still out on Bowery and Vlaar as we have not seen enough from them compared to the others.
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Should we lose to Soton I expect the crowd will turn like they did at Bolton last season.
Really, if we lose to Southampton, then I think he can't complain if he gets the bullet.
I have a feeling Southampton might have more organisation spirit and fight than us.
They also have some decent attacking players. Lambert will lead the line, Ramirez will float in the hole just behind him (not a clue who in midfield will pick him up) and Puncheon and Do Prado, two pacey wide players will have enjoying watching Hines ripping Bennett to shreds. I expect Stevens to be the left back on Saturday.
Exactly they ripped us apart last time and we had Vlaar then.They are more solid at the back.I can't see us beating them not after tonight ...
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Of course we need to get rid of the overpaid shite, but unfortunately, we also need several players in with the requisite quality and experience, who are going to add to the wage bill - before we shit the expensive shirkers off.
The chances are nobody is going to buy Warnock or Hutton in this window. So then what do we do? Wait till the summer and risk going down?
I would also be utterly amazed to find Dempsey was on anything like that at Spurs, Spurs who run a tight wages structure.
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And if they do, can we trust them to pick another manager? Christ that is a frightening prospect. We all thought Lambert was a great choice but for them to have to do it again. Oh Jesus, I don't think I could go through with that. What a mess.
The only difference between Lerner and the Venkys is that Lerner was smart enough not to be interviewed so the world did not realise early on how clueless in football he actually is. (Oh and the Venkys know how to be successful in business outside of football).
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
The problem is any new manager will still have the same squad that we have now which is a culmination of the dross purchased by MON, GH, TSM and now PL.
They say every manager gets a few transfers wrong, we are stuck with what's left of four managers wrong decisions, plus the kids and Lambert's decent ones.
I'd hope for a new manager bounce. Debatable whether we had that with Lambert but we did win vs Swansea and got a decent point at Newcastle in his first 4 games.
We need to win 5 games to survive. Southampton, QPR, Fulham and Newcastle at home and Reading away are the ones I'm looking at.
If we don't beat Southampton, I don't have much faith we'll win many more under lambert tbh.
And QPR was supposed to have a new manager bounce yet it took how many matches to record their first win after 'Arry joined. The bounce normally only happens if the players are good enough but just don't want to perform for the manager. These ones are just not good enough or are just lacking so much in confidence that they are as good as useless. Confidence across one player might just be fixed by a change of manager, (Benitez and Torres maybe), across so many kids would need someone like Fergie and even he would struggle.
Unless we buy well and wisely, we are down no matter who is the manager. Lambert seems to have shown with Benteke, Lowton, Westwood and making the decision to recover Guzan that he can get decent players in. Unfortunately KEA and Bennett shows he can make mistakes as well. The jury is still out on Bowery and Vlaar as we have not seen enough from them compared to the others.
QPR drew their first 3 games under him and then won against Fulham after losing every week under Hughes
I'd take 6 points from the next 4 games tbh.
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I just want a bit of stability. How about this, MON bails and we wobble, Houllier comes in, clears some out brings some in, he bails when his heart goes, we bring in Mcleish, he clears some out brings some in, gets the boot, Lambert comes in clears some out brings some in...
Who in their right mind would come and join us with that worrying trend? Who could we convince to leave their current job just to let history repeat itself? The team's pretty much been picking itself because of injuries and we need a couple of shrewd January signings to keep the wolf from the door, that's all.
I subscribe to this view, but you have to admit he's not exactly doing a good job, is he? The whole thing is just an awful mess and has been since Pubehead spat his dummy.
I'm not his most vehement supporter, but he has my full support for the time being. He certainly made the right noises upon his arrival (as most would to be fair), he was talking about playing the right way, even if you're down by a couple and chasing a game That every player should try their heart out for 90 minutes, and we saw early flashes of that. He talked about bringing in players of a younger age because it wasn't too late to mold them, drill disciplines into them and making an impression on them for the greater long term good, I believe he said that it wasn't a dig at the older pro's but that you just can't change their game when they get to a certain age. He talked about how we were a bunch of route one hoofers who couldn't keep the ball down. When he brought in Vlaar our distribution from the back was better and we were keeping it down.
Fast forward a few months and it would seem that he's done the complete opposite to all the problems he identified. We hoof it up field because we haven't got a decent midfield, the kids are ill disciplined at the complete basics, like staying tight to your man and not letting them goal side when marking, not getting dragged out of position, and trying to hit 30 yard hopeful passes instead of short triangles. We capitulate, roll over and die at the 65 minute mark in virtually every game. he started putting it all right, then all of a sudden we started going backwards. We went from 4-4-2 to 4-5-1 to 3-5-2 to 5-2-1-2, he's been doing the okey cokey with Shay and Brad while trying to juggle the Zog's bipolar form, Bannan's 'I'm the finished article' attitude, Ireland's general crapness at life, no midfield width for which he seems to think Gabby and Andi are the way forward, swapping out kids for kids and a midfield that like to kick the ball straight to the oppositions feet.
The thing that makes it tolerable for me is I see flashes of the team we could be, rather than the team we are. Every now and again Clark will keep it low, release Westwood who finds Bannan who miraculously hits his pass spot on to Benteke who heads in on to Weimann who slots it under the advancing keeper. You just have to put up with about 60 minutes of shit to be treated to it.
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Di Matteo on an 18 month contract I would take.
And if the worst happens you can apply the same as with Lambert as he got WBA out of the championship first time.
I don't see the point though. Lerner won't allow any manager to sign PL standard players. He wants a team full of lower league players on practically YTS wages. That why we're in trouble.
That's the thing a lot of people don't seem to get.
Yes, blah blah blah, Lambert bought these players, but if he's been given a restrictive wage bill to work with - and this is the club which have spent three years talking about nothing BUT the wage bill, so it doesn't take much of a trip of the imagination - then he's going to be limited in the sort of player he can get in.
Had Clint Dempsey agreed to join us in the summer am I to assume we'd have offered him £20k a week?
It doesn't matter, does it, because it never got that far.
We don't just need one player on Dempsey style money, either, we need several, and really quickly.
The fact remains that were after him and it's widely reported he's on £85k a week at Spurs.
Like all clubs the wage bill is an issue with the possible exception of Man City. To pretend otherwise is nonsense. Sadly we have shite players on huge wages (Ireland, N'Zogbia, Given, Delph, Dunne etc) that we don't need. It's the manager's job to choose who he wants within his budget but it's also his responsibility to convince his chairman they are worth it and he'll get the best out of them.
To simplify it, we've bought some seriously over priced, over paid shite and we need to get rid of them to free up the wage bill. Either that or the manager gets them performing to their cost value.
We do not need to change the manager. Yes we are in the shit but sacking Lambert would only put us further in the shit. I do not know the answers but surely now is not the time to sack Lambert. Wait two weeks, if we have beaten Saints and the Albion and got to wembley then all is good. If we have lost all three then i might have a different view. Until then i will stick with Lambert, but by the skin of my teeth >:(
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How could we be worse if we sacked Lambert? Could the defence get any worse? Could we be more disorganised? Could we score fewer goals?
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How could we be worse if we sacked Lambert? Could the defence get any worse? Could we be more disorganised? Could we score fewer goals?
We may - I pray - be sorting out signings right now. Some of them might be decent. Changing manager now would kybosh that for starters.
Put it this way, if we're not sorting out reinforcements, then I think we are fucked, whoever the manager.
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If Lambo is sacked, who to replace him? RDM is maybe most obvious and he did rejuvinate Chelsea last season. Maybe we could go back for OGS. The Norweigan league is over now isn't it?
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How could we be worse if we sacked Lambert? Could the defence get any worse? Could we be more disorganised? Could we score fewer goals?
Hard to imagine.
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What's the point in sacking Lambert?
a) We'd be back to square one and further destabilise an already fragile unit b) We then spunk more money paying off Lambert and his staff (which could be spent on transfers) c) Who else is available? Bring in a Bruce/Warnock type to try and stave off relegation? No thanks.
Being a supporter means you have to rally through thick and thin. The Premier League has turned some footy fans into swivel-eyed nutters frothing about how the team 'aren't fit to wear the shirt' when things aren't going to plan. They demand more millions of good money to be thrown after bad when most of these people have never managed a budget bigger than their monthly wages.
I'm hurting and am sick of having my mood darkened every weekend by another ridiculous result, but knee-jerking isn't the answer.
PS Experienced heads in the window please.
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Reckon he's got to get through to keep his job. 2-0 is gettable if he gets a grip with the defence, otherwise i reckon he's had it. Like it or not, its the horrific cup losses that do for a manager struggling in the league
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How could we be worse if we sacked Lambert? Could the defence get any worse? Could we be more disorganised? Could we score fewer goals?
We may - I pray - be sorting out signings right now. Some of them might be decent. Changing manager now would kybosh that for starters.
Put it this way, if we're not sorting out reinforcements, then I think we are fucked, whoever the manager.
The kind of players that could really "make a difference" probably won't want to come.
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If Lambo is sacked, who to replace him? RDM is maybe most obvious and he did rejuvinate Chelsea last season.
Look at the team Chelsea had ffs! Not hard to do well with that team is it? His showing at Baggies was hardly eye-catching.
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How could we be worse if we sacked Lambert? Could the defence get any worse? Could we be more disorganised? Could we score fewer goals?
Well the only thing that would be worse would be Lerner and Villa's bank balance because no one can turn the current situation around in the few weeks before the window closes under Randy's restrictions and the current squad.
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One things for sure , if he is going to sack him he needs another manager ready to come in like wolves have just done.
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If Lambo is sacked, who to replace him? RDM is maybe most obvious and he did rejuvinate Chelsea last season. Maybe we could go back for OGS. The Norweigan league is over now isn't it?
I wonder if Solskaer would reconsider...
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How could we be worse if we sacked Lambert? Could the defence get any worse? Could we be more disorganised? Could we score fewer goals?
We may - I pray - be sorting out signings right now. Some of them might be decent. Changing manager now would kybosh that for starters.
Put it this way, if we're not sorting out reinforcements, then I think we are fucked, whoever the manager.
I'd at least rather go down fighting than meekly giving up without a fight like we do under Lambert. His idea to motivate people is to mutter something about "going again" and treating defeat and wins in the same way. Does anybody imagine that Alex Ferguson treats his rare defeats in the same way he does a win? I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else. The only possible argument against getting rid of him is the thought of what that utter pair of cretins Lerner and Faulkner would try next.
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How could we be worse if we sacked Lambert? Could the defence get any worse? Could we be more disorganised? Could we score fewer goals?
It is the players, I dont think any other manager could get much more from them, they are just not good enough. So unless a new manager can some how bring a new team there is no point in sacking him now
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Well, there you go, you've just come up with one decent reason without even trying
*wink*
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If Lambo is sacked, who to replace him? RDM is maybe most obvious and he did rejuvinate Chelsea last season.
Look at the team Chelsea had ffs! Not hard to do well with that team is it? His showing at Baggies was hardly eye-catching.
True but they'd just lost 3-1 at Napoli and had been held to a 1-1 draw at home to SHA in the cup so not beyond the realms if AVB had stayed, they'd have been out of both cups. Didn't do too badly in the end.
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How could we be worse if we sacked Lambert? Could the defence get any worse? Could we be more disorganised? Could we score fewer goals?
We may - I pray - be sorting out signings right now. Some of them might be decent. Changing manager now would kybosh that for starters.
Put it this way, if we're not sorting out reinforcements, then I think we are fucked, whoever the manager.
I'd at least rather go down fighting than meekly giving up without a fight like we do under Lambert. His idea to motivate people is to mutter something about "going again" and treating defeat and wins in the same way. Does anybody imagine that Alex Ferguson treats his rare defeats in the same way he does a win? I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else. The only possible argument against getting rid of him is the thought of what that utter pair of cretins Lerner and Faulkner would try next.
They're probably not far off having a crack at co-managing the team.
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How could we be worse if we sacked Lambert? Could the defence get any worse? Could we be more disorganised? Could we score fewer goals?
We may - I pray - be sorting out signings right now. Some of them might be decent. Changing manager now would kybosh that for starters.
Put it this way, if we're not sorting out reinforcements, then I think we are fucked, whoever the manager.
If there is one thing this result has done, if the Xmas results didn't do the trick, is that the club will be relegated with the squad they have. Biggest couple of weeks in more than 25 years coming up.
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You know what? I'd just leave him in. I still firmly believe he's a decent, and probably better than that, coach, who will turn things around. I really do think the players are letting him down, and I'm beginning to realise that too many of this squad are just not up to it.
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You know what? I'd just leave him in. I still firmly believe he's a decent, and probably better than that, coach, who will turn things around. I really do think the players are letting him down, and I'm beginning to realise that too many of this squad are just not up to it.
He bought a lot of those players though.
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Lambert's a busted flush after tonight. I want to be proved totally wrong but it wouldn't suprise me at all now if no money other than that generated by sales is going to be made available in january.
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You know what? I'd just leave him in. I still firmly believe he's a decent, and probably better than that, coach, who will turn things around. I really do think the players are letting him down, and I'm beginning to realise that too many of this squad are just not up to it.
He bought a lot of those players though.
Not really, if you look at it.
Westwood and Lowton look decent, KEA is questionable (no, I don't go with your 'he's shite' argument just yet), Vlaar has looked good, as has Benteke (the one we were all telling the world how brilliant he is the other week, him).
The problem isn't in the players he's brought in necessarily, it is that the balance of the squad is all over the shop. Too many youngsters, too much expected of them too soon, too many of them who patently aren't good enough, and they're all getting thrown in together at the moment.
Ciaran Clark is a decent player, Nathan Baker is a highly promising player. Does that mean I'd want them playing along side each other at CB? Err, no.
That's our problem.
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Lambert's a busted flush after tonight. I want to be proved totally wrong but it wouldn't suprise me at all now if no money other than that generated by sales is going to be made available in january.
If that's the case, then we're fucked whoever our manager.
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If Lambo is sacked, who to replace him? RDM is maybe most obvious and he did rejuvinate Chelsea last season.
Look at the team Chelsea had ffs! Not hard to do well with that team is it? His showing at Baggies was hardly eye-catching.
True but they'd just lost 3-1 at Napoli and had been held to a 1-1 draw at home to SHA in the cup so not beyond the realms if AVB had stayed, they'd have been out of both cups. Didn't do too badly in the end.
It didn't take a genius to work out where AVB's 'revolution' was going wrong. DiMatteo just played their best players. Even Avram Grant managed to get them to within a gnat's pube of winning the Champions League.
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Di Matteo and Grant picked their best players and both largely let the core of high profile, long serving players run things.
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You know what? I'd just leave him in. I still firmly believe he's a decent, and probably better than that, coach, who will turn things around. I really do think the players are letting him down, and I'm beginning to realise that too many of this squad are just not up to it.
He bought a lot of those players though.
and without doubt he has bought in players and played players that are not good enough, what I do not know is to what extent his ability to bring in players has beeen constrained
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You know what? I'd just leave him in. I still firmly believe he's a decent, and probably better than that, coach, who will turn things around. I really do think the players are letting him down, and I'm beginning to realise that too many of this squad are just not up to it.
What you said.
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I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else.
Yep, just as you predicted in July Riss-bert
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Yeah, I know: I wish I could say I'm 100% confident in him. I am having doubts. But overall, I think he's been working with some very ordinary footballers, and I think we have to allow him to effectively rebuild us, which is going to take a while and be painful in the short-mid term. To be fair to his signings, I think they've been our better players this season:
Vlaar (badly miss him)
Lowton
Westwood
Benteke
His decision to bring Guzan back was good, too.
Bennett looks promising but is struggling; KEA started well but has lost his way. Not entirely given up on either player yet.
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I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else.
Yep, just as you predicted in July Riss-bert
Quite, I understand Risso's annoyance, but that last post is somewhat at odds with how he took it when Lambert got the job.
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We were conceding an average of 1.75 goals a game when Vlaar was playing, so not sure where the idea that he's some bedrock which we sorely miss has come from.
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What's the point in sacking Lambert?
a) We'd be back to square one and further destabilise an already fragile unit b) We then spunk more money paying off Lambert and his staff (which could be spent on transfers) c) Who else is available? Bring in a Bruce/Warnock type to try and stave off relegation? No thanks.
Being a supporter means you have to rally through thick and thin. The Premier League has turned some footy fans into swivel-eyed nutters frothing about how the team 'aren't fit to wear the shirt' when things aren't going to plan. They demand more millions of good money to be thrown after bad when most of these people have never managed a budget bigger than their monthly wages.
I'm hurting and am sick of having my mood darkened every weekend by another ridiculous result, but knee-jerking isn't the answer.
PS Experienced heads in the window please.
Totally,totally right.
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We were conceding an average of 1.75 goals a game when Vlaar was playing, so not sure where the idea that he's some bedrock which we sorely miss has come from.
Why do you have to take it to such an extreme?
Nobody is saying he's the new McGrath, just that he was doing a decent job and looking a decent signing.
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Lambert's a busted flush after tonight. I want to be proved totally wrong but it wouldn't suprise me at all now if no money other than that generated by sales is going to be made available in january.
If that's the case, then we're fucked whoever our manager.
If that's the case it'll be relegation in my opinion. If we don't strengthen the defence we're going down. 3 years of constant cutbacks has caused this. I really don't understand what Lerner's doing. If we go down he'll lose more cash than he ever would by continuing to spend big wages on PL standard players.
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It didn't take a genius to work out where AVB's 'revolution' was going wrong. DiMatteo just played their best players. Even Avram Grant managed to get them to within a gnat's pube of winning the Champions League.
Not taking up the point that the senior players ran the club and didn't want to play for AVB as he didn't let them do what they wanted, (Similar to Dunne, Collins and Warnock under Houllier), which better players hasn't he played. Bent is arguable although he was responsible for the worst miss of the night, but none of the others have shown this year or last that they are any better then the kids. It's not like they are being played instead of Cole, Lampard and Droghba.
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I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else.
Yep, just as you predicted in July Riss-bert
Quite, I understand Risso's annoyance, but that last post is somewhat at odds with how he took it when Lambert got the job.
Oh do wind it in, look at how excited everybody gets at the slightest whiff of a new player or manager. Everybody was sure N'Zogbia was going to be a brilliant buy for us, and had their user names changed accordingly. 99% of people would drive him to where he wanted to go now. At least I do now realise that simply not being McLeish isn't a reason in itself for keeping somebody in a job.
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It didn't take a genius to work out where AVB's 'revolution' was going wrong. DiMatteo just played their best players. Even Avram Grant managed to get them to within a gnat's pube of winning the Champions League.
Not taking up the point that the senior players ran the club and didn't want to play for AVB as he didn't let them do what they wanted, (Similar to Dunne, Collins and Warnock under Houllier), which better players hasn't he played. Bent is arguable although he was responsible for the worst miss of the night, but none of the others have shown this year or last that they are any better then the kids. It's not like they are being played instead of Cole, Lampard and Droghba.
Think you're missing the point.
He's saying that RDM's work at Chelsea was hardly an act of genius. He just played their best players, and their best players are world class.
Like you said, Lambert mostly plays ours, but ours are shit, and were RDM to come here and try to use the same approach he used at Chelsea, the results would no doubt be equally shit.
The fundamental problem we have that there's no getting away from - whether you rate the manager or not, whether you think he bought the worst players or not - is that too many of the players are simply not good enough.
This hasn't just happened overnight. All that money spunked over the last few years, all that money wasted, and look at the pathetic squad we have.
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One thing about Di matteo is he knew how to park the bus as did TSM. Lambert seems totally clueless in that respect.
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What's the point in sacking Lambert?
a) We'd be back to square one and further destabilise an already fragile unit b) We then spunk more money paying off Lambert and his staff (which could be spent on transfers) c) Who else is available? Bring in a Bruce/Warnock type to try and stave off relegation? No thanks.
Being a supporter means you have to rally through thick and thin. The Premier League has turned some footy fans into swivel-eyed nutters frothing about how the team 'aren't fit to wear the shirt' when things aren't going to plan. They demand more millions of good money to be thrown after bad when most of these people have never managed a budget bigger than their monthly wages.
I'm hurting and am sick of having my mood darkened every weekend by another ridiculous result, but knee-jerking isn't the answer.
PS Experienced heads in the window please.
Totally,totally right.
Spot.....Fucking......Sweary Tuesday Night On. No time for panick.
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Quite right Greg, if we're going to stay up, we have to at least get the defence organised and there's no sign of Lambert doing that any time soon.
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One thing about Di matteo is he knew how to park the bus as did TSM. Lambert seems totally clueless in that respect.
Di Matteo, yes, but he had the players and the luck in the matches he needed to do that. TSM wasn't as successful at it due to lacking both. Lambert hasn't the players although has had the luck in some matches.
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I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else.
Yep, just as you predicted in July Riss-bert
Quite, I understand Risso's annoyance, but that last post is somewhat at odds with how he took it when Lambert got the job.
Oh do wind it in, look at how excited everybody gets at the slightest whiff of a new player or manager. Everybody was sure N'Zogbia was going to be a brilliant buy for us, and had their user names changed accordingly. 99% of people would drive him to where he wanted to go now. At least I do now realise that simply not being McLeish isn't a reason in itself for keeping somebody in a job.
Missing the point.
You're saying he should have stayed where he was. I'm pointing out that, whilst he's turned out to be disappointing so far, to suggest he shouldn't have made the move at all is utter bollocks, as you - like the rest of us - were pleased with the appointment.
Slate him all you like, but that "shouldn't have come here in the first place" line is revisionist nonsense.
As for your McLeish point, I don't think for a moment not being him is enough, but it's a start, which is what every man jack of us was saying on here at the end of last season.
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I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else.
Yep, just as you predicted in July Riss-bert
Quite, I understand Risso's annoyance, but that last post is somewhat at odds with how he took it when Lambert got the job.
Oh do wind it in, look at how excited everybody gets at the slightest whiff of a new player or manager. Everybody was sure N'Zogbia was going to be a brilliant buy for us, and had their user names changed accordingly. 99% of people would drive him to where he wanted to go now. At least I do now realise that simply not being McLeish isn't a reason in itself for keeping somebody in a job.
So change the manager every half season.As others have said,who do we bring in ? Proven failure,Roy Keane ? Di Matteo,whom Albion got rid of and have improved since that decision.
Gary Megson,he 'll wave his fists,demand 300%. And then look at the players,scout for new ones. And then you can ask for his head.Henry 8 was more faithful to his wives.
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Our defenders play like they've been beheaded, so that's quite apt really.
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Our problems set in whatever day it was somebody thought it would be cool to honour a new signing/manager by changing their username int heir honour.
I trace this to the Houllier era?
Enough said.
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One thing about Di matteo is he knew how to park the bus as did TSM. Lambert seems totally clueless in that respect.
The bus being Terry,Ivanovic,Cole,Cahill and Luiz,more a limousine. TSM parked 3 holding midfielders v Spurs and only thanks to a lucky deflection got a draw against 10 men.Did the same against the clueless,inept Lambert and was unlucky.
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Worst goal scoring record and most goals conceded. Regular humiliations on a scale I can't remember from supporting villa for over 25 years. It isn't working and shows no signs off.
He's running out if excuses. Yes Lerner is at fault, but I am convinced it was PL's own strategy to buy the mix of young potential and foreign imports. The people defending him at all costs seem to be in denial about this. He could have bought experience, he chose not to, and its not working. If he isn't planning to rectify this immediately he should go tomorrow. I just pray our targets re the likes of Lescott rather than league 1 prospects again.
His stubbornness could be seen as a show of strength but it needs to backed with sound judgement (like a Fergie). The whole transfer policy and handling of Bent leaves me thinking that his stubbornness is to the detriment of the team.
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Still in for me.
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I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else.
Yep, just as you predicted in July Riss-bert
Quite, I understand Risso's annoyance, but that last post is somewhat at odds with how he took it when Lambert got the job.
Oh do wind it in, look at how excited everybody gets at the slightest whiff of a new player or manager. Everybody was sure N'Zogbia was going to be a brilliant buy for us, and had their user names changed accordingly. 99% of people would drive him to where he wanted to go now. At least I do now realise that simply not being McLeish isn't a reason in itself for keeping somebody in a job.
But the difference between some of us and you is that your view is changing the manager is going to fix everything.
Look at McLeish's puchases compared to Lambert's on a similar spend. Obviously for yourself, every player Lambert has bought is shit. But for most others, they can see Westwood, Benteke and Lowton look like very good players who could improve massively with experienced players. And Guzan who was fobbed off by TSM looks a better bet then Given now. Bennett has some good play but looks poor more and more and the same with KEA.
But from Alex, we have been saddled with the aforementioned N'zog, an equally inexperienced Stevens, a potentially bad Holman and a rapidly aging Given one year into a five year contract. We also had an injury prone Jenas in the midfield experience role on loan. The only transfer decision he made that was an improvement was Keane and he was only for a month so you can't really
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Still out for me. The guys completely clueless plus i'm sick of putting on subtitles for post match interviews!
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I've been trying to work out where Lambert's strengths actually lie. According to reports he doesn't actually coach, which leaves acquisitions, tactics and motivation. It would be laughed off the forum if I tried to claim the latter two, so I won't. Which leaves acquisitions. Fair plays, he's bought in some players that will probably be established top-flight players sooner on down the line, and some that just won't, but he's supposed to be a manager, not a scout.
So what exactly does Lambert bring to the party?
What's also concerning is that if there is a groundswell of support to give our manager the elbow, who comes in to take over the team while a new manager is installed? Culverhouse and Karsa will probably go too, and Kevin McDonald's gone. So it's back to Sid, who didn't have a fantastic time as an assistant boss, let alone a full blown temp. You sack Lambert, he has to go this weekend at the very latest otherwise January's transfer window will not be of any use to us.
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I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else.
Yep, just as you predicted in July Riss-bert
Quite, I understand Risso's annoyance, but that last post is somewhat at odds with how he took it when Lambert got the job.
Oh do wind it in, look at how excited everybody gets at the slightest whiff of a new player or manager. Everybody was sure N'Zogbia was going to be a brilliant buy for us, and had their user names changed accordingly. 99% of people would drive him to where he wanted to go now. At least I do now realise that simply not being McLeish isn't a reason in itself for keeping somebody in a job.
But the difference between some of us and you is that your view is changing the manager is going to fix everything.
Look at McLeish's puchases compared to Lambert's on a similar spend. Obviously for yourself, every player Lambert has bought is shit. But for most others, they can see Westwood, Benteke and Lowton look like very good players who could improve massively with experienced players. And Guzan who was fobbed off by TSM looks a better bet then Given now. Bennett has some good play but looks poor more and more and the same with KEA.
But from Alex, we have been saddled with the aforementioned N'zog, an equally inexperienced Stevens, a potentially bad Holman and a rapidly aging Given one year into a five year contract. We also had an injury prone Jenas in the midfield experience role on loan. The only transfer decision he made that was an improvement was Keane and he was only for a month so you can't really
You make it sound like we've improved since McLeish left. We haven't, we got worse.
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I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else.
Yep, just as you predicted in July Riss-bert
Quite, I understand Risso's annoyance, but that last post is somewhat at odds with how he took it when Lambert got the job.
Oh do wind it in, look at how excited everybody gets at the slightest whiff of a new player or manager. Everybody was sure N'Zogbia was going to be a brilliant buy for us, and had their user names changed accordingly. 99% of people would drive him to where he wanted to go now. At least I do now realise that simply not being McLeish isn't a reason in itself for keeping somebody in a job.
Missing the point.
You're saying he should have stayed where he was. I'm pointing out that, whilst he's turned out to be disappointing so far, to suggest he shouldn't have made the move at all is utter bollocks, as you - like the rest of us - were pleased with the appointment.
Slate him all you like, but that "shouldn't have come here in the first place" line is revisionist nonsense.
As for your McLeish point, I don't think for a moment not being him is enough, but it's a start, which is what every man jack of us was saying on here at the end of last season.
I'm fairly certain your opinion on Lerner has changed quite dramatically over the last three years as well.
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Wigan finished 5pts above us last season and are below us now,so surely they must sack Martinez ? Reading ,promoted as champions,must sack McDermott.As for Newcastle,6th last season and just one point in front of us,Pardew has no chance.The Hammers fans got big Sam the sack as they could only get into the play offs,pity the board didn't listen to them.And then there was that serial failure,Ferguson,greeted with banners telling him to go. How did he get on ?
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I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else.
Yep, just as you predicted in July Riss-bert
Quite, I understand Risso's annoyance, but that last post is somewhat at odds with how he took it when Lambert got the job.
Oh do wind it in, look at how excited everybody gets at the slightest whiff of a new player or manager. Everybody was sure N'Zogbia was going to be a brilliant buy for us, and had their user names changed accordingly. 99% of people would drive him to where he wanted to go now. At least I do now realise that simply not being McLeish isn't a reason in itself for keeping somebody in a job.
Missing the point.
You're saying he should have stayed where he was. I'm pointing out that, whilst he's turned out to be disappointing so far, to suggest he shouldn't have made the move at all is utter bollocks, as you - like the rest of us - were pleased with the appointment.
Slate him all you like, but that "shouldn't have come here in the first place" line is revisionist nonsense.
As for your McLeish point, I don't think for a moment not being him is enough, but it's a start, which is what every man jack of us was saying on here at the end of last season.
I'm fairly certain your opinion on Lerner has changed quite dramatically over the last three years as well.
Yes, it has, I am aware that opinions change, but its one thing to say Lambert is doing badly (and, honestly, we've all noticed) but another one to start acting like it was doomed from the start.
I just don't get you on this subject. You make valid points on a lot of the issues here but they then get lost in your incredibly angry reaction to it all, which paints absolutely everything as shit.
Lambert signed most oif the shit players ... Vlaars not much cop anyway s how can we miss him ... there has been zero promise from this team all season (which is palpable nonsense as we are moaning about a semi final we reached by scoring four goals at both Man City and Norwich) ... and then the whole "sack the manager, anyone will do, maybe we don't even need a manager" thing
Everyone can see how shit things are, the difference is most people can see that spunking more money sacking another manager right now would just make things worse.
Do you not realise that, for example, we are nine days into a crucial window in which we absolutely must strengthen? In which we have limited funds?
How - beyond pointless hyperbolic anger along the lines of "well, it could hardly make things worse" - would sacking the manager and starting to look for a whole new management team on January 10th help that?
You can't answer that question, firstly because you don't want to, and secondly because you know there isn't an answer which will achieve anything other than satisfy your lust for blood
There isn't an easy, flick the switch answer to this mess, unfortunately, no matter how fucked off we get about it.
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Wigan finished 5pts above us last season and are below us now,so surely they must sack Martinez ? Reading ,promoted as champions,must sack McDermott.As for Newcastle,6th last season and just one point in front of us,Pardew has no chance.The Hammers fans got big Sam the sack as they could only get into the play offs,pity the board didn't listen to them.And then there was that serial failure,Ferguson,greeted with banners telling him to go. How did he get on ?
I see your point and I think the large majority of fans are against those kind of knee-jerk reactions. But a great deal of those same patient fans are turning towards the idea of a change because we're quite definitely sliding in terms of form and confidence. How far we are down that slope time will tell, but for what it's worth I don't think we've reached the nadir this season yet.
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Wigan finished 5pts above us last season and are below us now,so surely they must sack Martinez ? Reading ,promoted as champions,must sack McDermott.As for Newcastle,6th last season and just one point in front of us,Pardew has no chance.The Hammers fans got big Sam the sack as they could only get into the play offs,pity the board didn't listen to them.And then there was that serial failure,Ferguson,greeted with banners telling him to go. How did he get on ?
How many of those clubs have let in the goals we have?
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The league is not decided on how many goals you let in,otherwise TSM would be a great manager.If we can improve in central midfield and the centre of the defence,we will be okay.
We don't have to sign world class players just improvements.
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Wigan finished 5pts above us last season and are below us now,so surely they must sack Martinez ? Reading ,promoted as champions,must sack McDermott.As for Newcastle,6th last season and just one point in front of us,Pardew has no chance.The Hammers fans got big Sam the sack as they could only get into the play offs,pity the board didn't listen to them.And then there was that serial failure,Ferguson,greeted with banners telling him to go. How did he get on ?
Oh Jesus. Someone's rolled out the 'sack Fergie' thing. It had to come. What I you've got more of a Billy McNeill than a Sir Alex? Still stick with him? All those managers you mention have credit in the bank because they have achieved relative success with that club, and I don't think Big Sam has been sacked by West Ham yet.
Lambert has had more good will and support of any manager I can think, including some villa favourites. He's hardly been unfairly treated. Just how bad does it ave to get before he goes? I desperately want him to succeed I just think its already too far gone.
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Lambert had a lot of early credit without having to do anything by virtue of the fact he wasn't McLeish. Added to that, he was a lot of fans' first choice (notwithstanding the brief flare-up of Solksjaer love) so we thought we were being listened to again. And finally, he's been forgiven the dodgy form and the threadbare squad because we thought for all the bumps were were going to take, at least we were going to recieve them playing the right way. However, that hasn't really shown itself.
I'm going to stop now, because if I don't I'll convince myself to join the 'sack' camp.
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I think he will walk if we lose Saturday.He looks like a beaten man.
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Wigan finished 5pts above us last season and are below us now,so surely they must sack Martinez ? Reading ,promoted as champions,must sack McDermott.As for Newcastle,6th last season and just one point in front of us,Pardew has no chance.The Hammers fans got big Sam the sack as they could only get into the play offs,pity the board didn't listen to them.And then there was that serial failure,Ferguson,greeted with banners telling him to go. How did he get on ?
Oh Jesus. Someone's rolled out the 'sack Fergie' thing. It had to come. What I you've got more of a Billy McNeill than a Sir Alex? Still stick with him? All those managers you mention have credit in the bank because they have achieved relative success with that club, and I don't think Big Sam has been sacked by West Ham yet.
Lambert has had more good will and support of any manager I can think, including some villa favourites. He's hardly been unfairly treated. Just how bad does it ave to get before he goes? I desperately want him to succeed I just think its already too far gone.
Aye, the trouble with the Sir Redface comparisons is he near enough bought two sides before he started winning trophies. If Lambert had his budget i'd be confident on him turning things round with the transfer window. hell, with MON's budget i would, but the end of the day he's got neither the budget or the existing players they had the luxury of. He needs to wise up, play to survive or he's a goner
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No,Sam hasn't been sacked by West Ham but the fans wanted him out as at Newcastle.You can't keep sacking managers and expect to be successful.Except Chelsea and Real Madrid ,where money and more money is thrown at the problem,not applicable to a normal club.
Lambert's record is outstanding,his signings are far better than TSMs,give him time.We're in the same position as we ended last season.Disappointing,yes.But considering how we fell away after Stan's departure and the players that were at VP. Senior players like Dunne and Given in decline.Others like Hutton and Warnock ridiculed by the fans. Collins fighting with the staff.Another 2 games last year,we would have been relegated.Changes need to be made.
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You make it sound like we've improved since McLeish left. We haven't, we got worse.
Yes we have got worse, especially in this spell although tonights result is no worse then Doncaster in 95 where we had a strong side out and barely created anything.
But I'm also aware that this season is a culmination of 4 years of cost cutting and quality replacement by the owner. The last time we had such drastic cuts was after 82.
My point was this is the only season we have seen players come in who could, given time, actually improve on what we have currently got. The only other player to come in to do that since MON flounced off was Bent but with Charles and Marc not quite being the suppliers we need for him to thrive, that doesn't help us at the moment. I personally think Lambert should be given another two windows to see if the fully purchased squad of his pans out but whether Lerner moves the goal posts again or he will have that time is another matter.
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I'm still not saying 'sack him', but f**k me something needs to change, and fast.
For me, there have been a few real failings. Lambert I'm sure will be a real success somewhere, if not us. But he has gone about many things the wrong way. For a start, I feel his major strength as a manager is tactical flexibility - changing between formations and strategies throughout a game depending on what he sees. However, to do that you really do need experienced players, players who have been around and know how to play different systems and what that means for every position on the pitch. We have none of those in any position, and in central defence it's particularly noticeable, especially since Vlaar's injury.
The other problem for me has been that he appears to have appealed to these young players' emotions' - telling them to go after every ball, go all-out in attack, all that. That's great if you're one-up at Anfield, the young guys will be feeling as happy as Larry - but one down to Chelsea after two minutes and it's a different story, and picking them up after the ensuing eight-goal mauling is pretty much impossible to do emotionally. The players need calm, rationality, a Bjorn Borg-style play-every-point mentality, and that's not emotional - and again, best achieved with a bit of experience in the side to help the younger guys.
Like I've said, he needs to change things, and fast. This is turning from transition to derision - we're the laughing stock of football. We need to stop this, it's absolutely unbearable, and Lambert has to realise his strategy is not working.
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What really bugs me is that the team so readily resort to hoofball. Especially when Benteke is on the field. Against Bradford we looked threatening when we passed it around quickly, yet the players seem to always resort to a default of just lumping it. Why doesn't Lambert do anything about this? He just strikes me as tactically inept TBH. Rarely looks like he has a clue what to do when things aren't going well. Against Wigan, he pushed Ireland up at half-time which left Bannan by himself to shield the defence. Even if Bannan is one his game, he can't protect the defence single-handed. It was simply gung-ho tactics when we were only 1-0 down with a half to play. Understandable if it was the last ten minutes maybe. This ineptness has been visable since the Everton game. Playing Herd on the wing and leaving Bannan to deal with Fellaini! Surely it should have been the other way around if anything. Against Norwich in the league, he took of Benteke when we had ten men and brought on Bent! Took of the only person who could hold the ball up when we were under relentless pressure by them. There are countless other examples too, but can't be bothered to list them all!
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I have come to the conclusion that PL has bent the stick too far away from pragmatism and short termism and is planning too much for the future. Yes, under MoN we lacked the flexibility to break defensive teams down at VP and yes, to be successful in the Prem, you have to be able to play several different formations and be tactically flexible.
But all the flexibility in the world is of fuck all use if you can't defend a corner and the entire defence is banjaxed by some elementary movement such as a run to the near post. Back to basics is needed at this stage.
Also, I like a bit of cultured passing and that class of thing, but I get very irritated when a player is left in acres of space, and instead of pressing it before making the pass, does it straight away, usually sideways. It is as though they have been programmed to pass it quickly whatever the circumstances. In the recent Wigan fiasco, their number 2 gave a demonstration on what can be achieved when this situation arises, which was frequently in that game.
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The warnings have been there since Everton his teams can not defend his Norwich team were the same its why they have improved under Houghton he has coached the defence better and brought in experiance.
The league cup was the one bright point to hang onto after recent league results now we dont even have that.We are a laughing stock.
The Liverpool result and even Norwich looked good but even in those games we should of conceded more.I fear we will go down even if we invest as quite obviously the man can not organise a defence.Add that to our hoof ball to Benteke it is a one way trip down.
We needed experiance in the team he went his own way and it has failed miserably.
The kids also lost in the youth cup 4 nil to Peterborough...bright future ....doesnt feel like it right now.
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I think for now it’s got to be Lambert ‘in’ but he’s fast running out of time, support and opportunities to get things right. This is a crucial month and he needs to get some experienced bodies in fast. Getting rid of him now would serve no purpose as we would need to identify a replacement, get them in and, if there’s any money available, let them bring in some players – all in 3 weeks. We may as well stick with him and roll the dice…
Lambert needs to be backed by the owner this month and allowed to strengthen an extremely weak squad. As it is, I think we’re going down. Personally, I don’t care who is brought in whether they’re young, old, world-beaters, loans or Nigel Reo-Coker. One thing we lack is that there is nobody ‘nasty’ in the team that’s going to take the game by the scruff of the neck and for the rest of the team to look up to (or fear). The manager hardly fills me with enthusiasm with his demeanour so I wonder if that rubs off on the players. Whoever is responsible for defensive coaching at the club needs to take a bloody good hard look at themselves too – I can almost forgive the team for the Chelsea result as ‘one of those things’ but the utter shambles that has followed needs addressing pronto.
Once January is out of the way I think Lambert has another month or so (and I’ve no idea who we’re playing in that time) but if there is no improvement, or if he hasn’t been able to bring in any players, then a further re-assessment of his position will be required. If there’s no improvement and results continue to be so catastrophic I would hope that he would decide that enough is enough and fall on his sword. I’d rather it not come to that and we see an upswing in our fortunes and a trip to Wembley but we need to fight to get out of this mess and, so far, I see very little stomach for that fight.
If we survive the season in this division then the owner can make a decision on whether Lambert gets an opportunity to continue. And whether he wishes to continue to be the owner - but that's a discussion for another thread I'm sure...
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There is no backbone in our team without that we got little chance.
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I think for now it’s got to be Lambert ‘in’ but he’s fast running out of time, support and opportunities to get things right. This is a crucial month and he needs to get some experienced bodies in fast. Getting rid of him now would serve no purpose as we would need to identify a replacement, get them in and, if there’s any money available, let them bring in some players – all in 3 weeks. We may as well stick with him and roll the dice…
Lambert needs to be backed by the owner this month and allowed to strengthen an extremely weak squad. As it is, I think we’re going down. Personally, I don’t care who is brought in whether they’re young, old, world-beaters, loans or Nigel Reo-Coker. One thing we lack is that there is nobody ‘nasty’ in the team that’s going to take the game by the scruff of the neck and for the rest of the team to look up to (or fear). The manager hardly fills me with enthusiasm with his demeanour so I wonder if that rubs off on the players. Whoever is responsible for defensive coaching at the club needs to take a bloody good hard look at themselves too – I can almost forgive the team for the Chelsea result as ‘one of those things’ but the utter shambles that has followed needs addressing pronto.
Once January is out of the way I think Lambert has another month or so (and I’ve no idea who we’re playing in that time) but if there is no improvement, or if he hasn’t been able to bring in any players, then a further re-assessment of his position will be required. If there’s no improvement and results continue to be so catastrophic I would hope that he would decide that enough is enough and fall on his sword. I’d rather it not come to that and we see an upswing in our fortunes and a trip to Wembley but we need to fight to get out of this mess and, so far, I see very little stomach for that fight.
If we survive the season in this division then the owner can make a decision on whether Lambert gets an opportunity to continue. And whether he wishes to continue to be the owner - but that's a discussion for another thread I'm sure...
Perfectly put, after last night a lot of things are now up in the air for me. A devastating result.
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The biggest problem we have got at the moment is, as Risso said last night in the match thread, central midfield. We have no ability to screen the back 4 at the moment, Bannan and Delph have no discipline to simply sit in and hold the opposition, so you are left with great holes that the central defence have to step out into at times. From corners Benteke lost his man a couple of times, and the second ball dropping, where the likes of Delph and Bannan due to being tiny need to be getting as they are no use marking, are getting nowhere near. Delph as post man - fine if the ball is coming on the floor, but in the air, he is 5" 6/7? And jumps 4" nothing.
There are too many positions in the spine of the side we need bodies. Without doubt Vlaar and Westwood are head an shoulders better than Clark and Delph. We have to get players that can protect that back 4. If we play 4-4-2, one of the things that MON did was have wingers that worked their bollocks off to help the full back. Imagine Bennett had Young helping him out at the moment, he would not be getting hammered by any old average winger because we would be protecting.
Lambert is not at fault for the squad being so shit before he arrived but he has to address the jelly like middle 4 we have at the moment. 2 big, uncompromising bastards at the back, with 2 big, technically decent, uncompromising bastards in front of them. Tall, strong, athletic and with ability please. The rest of the side would suddenly look like a football team.
I like Lambert, and have defended him a lot, but he has to recognize where we are struggling and sort it out. ASAP.
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i think that given the financial imperativeof staying in the diviision this season, we have reached a true nadir in the club's history.
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One question remains with this debate though. Who replaces him. Curbishley seems to be the only viable out of work option. Di Matteo is an awful manager IMO, Roy Keane is the worst suggestion in history. Martin Laursen would at a minimum teach them passion and how to defend you would think!
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One question remains with this debate though. Who replaces him. Curbishley seems to be the only viable out of work option. Di Matteo is an awful manager IMO, Roy Keane is the worst suggestion in history. Martin Laursen would at a minimum teach them passion and how to defend you would think!
What manager would take us on knowing the restrictions in the transfer market under the idiot Lerner? It would be like rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.
Nothing will change while Lerner still thinks he can do it on the cheap.
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One question remains with this debate though. Who replaces him. Curbishley seems to be the only viable out of work option. Di Matteo is an awful manager IMO, Roy Keane is the worst suggestion in history. Martin Laursen would at a minimum teach them passion and how to defend you would think!
Laursen should, at the very minimum, be brought in as a defensive consultant, as the current defensive coach is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
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The lack of other options will help keep him in his job.It beggers belief that of the new managers in the league this season Houghton , Laudrup and Clark we someone got the worst option.
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One question remains with this debate though. Who replaces him. Curbishley seems to be the only viable out of work option. Di Matteo is an awful manager IMO, Roy Keane is the worst suggestion in history. Martin Laursen would at a minimum teach them passion and how to defend you would think!
Laursen should, at the very minimum, be brought in as a defensive consultant, as the current defensive coach is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
Is he a good coach? We shouldn't go down the route of getting ex players in as coach because they were popular as players.
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The lack of other options will help keep him in his job.It beggers belief that of the new managers in the league this season Houghton , Laudrup and Clark we someone got the worst option.
It's the fact that we've got the worst chairman that is the square route of all our problems. All the above names would struggle at Villa Park.
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One question remains with this debate though. Who replaces him. Curbishley seems to be the only viable out of work option. Di Matteo is an awful manager IMO, Roy Keane is the worst suggestion in history. Martin Laursen would at a minimum teach them passion and how to defend you would think!
Laursen should, at the very minimum, be brought in as a defensive consultant, as the current defensive coach is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
Is he a good coach? We shouldn't go down the route of getting ex players in as coach because they were popular as players.
He's had enough experience as a defender to know how to organize the back four. You cannot tell me, especially after last night, that our current coach seems especially competent in this aspect. We had frequent gaps that you could have fitted a double decker through and how often were they beaten in the air. What exactly are they being taught? The mind boggles.
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One question remains with this debate though. Who replaces him. Curbishley seems to be the only viable out of work option. Di Matteo is an awful manager IMO, Roy Keane is the worst suggestion in history. Martin Laursen would at a minimum teach them passion and how to defend you would think!
Laursen should, at the very minimum, be brought in as a defensive consultant, as the current defensive coach is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
Is he a good coach? We shouldn't go down the route of getting ex players in as coach because they were popular as players.
He's had enough experience as a defender to know how to organize the back four. You cannot tell me, especially after last night, that our current coach seems especially competent in this aspect. We had frequent gaps that you could have fitted a double decker through and how often were they beaten in the air. What exactly are they being taught? The mind boggles.
But our defenders just aren't good enough. It would be like putting lipstick on a pig. They need replacing.
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I really like managers who oversee training, few and far between these days.
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One question remains with this debate though. Who replaces him. Curbishley seems to be the only viable out of work option. Di Matteo is an awful manager IMO, Roy Keane is the worst suggestion in history. Martin Laursen would at a minimum teach them passion and how to defend you would think!
Laursen should, at the very minimum, be brought in as a defensive consultant, as the current defensive coach is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
Is he a good coach? We shouldn't go down the route of getting ex players in as coach because they were popular as players.
He's had enough experience as a defender to know how to organize the back four. You cannot tell me, especially after last night, that our current coach seems especially competent in this aspect. We had frequent gaps that you could have fitted a double decker through and how often were they beaten in the air. What exactly are they being taught? The mind boggles.
But our defenders just aren't good enough. It would be like putting lipstick on a pig. They need replacing.
Some basic disipline would at least cancel out the comedy errors. There is no doubting that we need quality there, but the errors are so basic you have to ask yourself what is being taught. I did not see the Bradford defenders making such schoolboy errors and they are 4th Div players.
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I've had enough. The last few weeks have been awful. If he went now, I don't think I'd be too bothered.
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The lack of other options will help keep him in his job.It beggers belief that of the new managers in the league this season Houghton , Laudrup and Clark we someone got the worst option.
It's the fact that we've got the worst chairman that is the square route of all our problems. All the above names would struggle at Villa Park.
They had better foundations but have Swansea WBA and Norwich got higher wages than us ?? Did they spend as much as us in Summer ?
Ill go as far to say any of them 3 with 25 mil net to spend would be doing better than Lambert is now.
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Lose on Saturday & I expect Lambert to walk. Just look at his body language & total lack of fuck last night in the last 15 minutes or so, in fact in any part of the game. Him & Culverhouse whispering sweet nothings at each other, clueless.
Not that I blame him in entireity I might add, having to work for our useless absent owner under the conditions he set havent helped.
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I've had enough. The last few weeks have been awful. If he went now, I don't think I'd be too bothered.
I'm nearly coming around to this POV, but it's yet another managerial change. I think we're going down now, the team is nowhere near good enough and requires a major rebuild. That can't be done overnight, let alone in the next three crucial months.
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Judging by the mood on here (not always a good idea, I know), I detect a sea change after last night. It's not quite a lynch mob but the fans faith has been sorely tested and patience is running out.
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Judging by the mood on here (not always a good idea, I know), I detect a sea change after last night. It's not quite a lynch mob but the fans faith has been sorely tested and patience is running out.
Yep, and you can't blame us really. The shocking form over Christmas, while not helped by injuries, has wounded the pride of the fans. I don't give a fuck if it was Chelsea, I don't give a fuck if it was Barcelona to be honest, losing 8-0 is an indelible stain on the club's history. Followed up by a nothing performance against a decent Spurs side, and then a hiding at home to fellow relegation candidates in a 6 pointer game has been incredibly hard to take.
Losing so heavily to a middling 4th division side, though, is the icing on the shit cake. Anything can happen in a cup tie, but the way in which Villa approached the game was unprofessional. Bradford made us look like the lower league team. I don't think Dave Woodhall was being serious about this being the worst defeat in our history, but it is another indicator that there is something rotten down at Villa Park that isn't being purged.
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One question remains with this debate though. Who replaces him. Curbishley seems to be the only viable out of work option. Di Matteo is an awful manager IMO, Roy Keane is the worst suggestion in history. Martin Laursen would at a minimum teach them passion and how to defend you would think!
Laursen should, at the very minimum, be brought in as a defensive consultant, as the current defensive coach is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
Is he a good coach? We shouldn't go down the route of getting ex players in as coach because they were popular as players.
He's had enough experience as a defender to know how to organize the back four. You cannot tell me, especially after last night, that our current coach seems especially competent in this aspect. We had frequent gaps that you could have fitted a double decker through and how often were they beaten in the air. What exactly are they being taught? The mind boggles.
But our defenders just aren't good enough. It would be like putting lipstick on a pig. They need replacing.
Some basic disipline would at least cancel out the comedy errors. There is no doubting that we need quality there, but the errors are so basic you have to ask yourself what is being taught. I did not see the Bradford defenders making such schoolboy errors and they are 4th Div players.
I agree with this. Good coaching on defensive discipline can make average players organised and play to a shape. Longer term I don't know whether the defenders we have are good enough, but the guidance and direction they should receive at Premier League level but are clearly not receiving at the moment is making them look worse than they are.
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Judging by the mood on here (not always a good idea, I know), I detect a sea change after last night. It's not quite a lynch mob but the fans faith has been sorely tested and patience is running out.
Pretty much sums up the way I feel.
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Even though the timing is poor, it's not as poor as results and performances have been, and I think he should go. The things that Lambert is directly responsible for are falling very short of the mark. Organisation on the pitch, tactical astuteness, motivation, signs of improvement in individuals and as a team, all of those things have been poor and are getting significantly worse with each week.
Regardless of a lack of financial backing and whatnot, those things I listed are what I would consider the basic requirements in an effective manager, and he is not delivering them, not by a long stretch. If it were up to me, I'm afraid I'd sack him.
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It's always worries me when I manager has nothing to do with the actual day to day training but prefers to sit behind a desk.I wish we had Chris Hughton
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Name a worse defeat in our history.
3-1 to a Fourth Division club is pathetic whatever way you look at it.
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Lose on Saturday & I expect Lambert to walk. Just look at his body language & total lack of fuck last night in the last 15 minutes or so, in fact in any part of the game. Him & Culverhouse whispering sweet nothings at each other, clueless.
Not that I blame him in entireity I might add, having to work for our useless absent owner under the conditions he set havent helped.
Looking at that bench last night was depressing. They was no life on there at all. When we got to our lowest point it was just heads down and muttering between themselves. It needed someone on the side of the pitch trying to fire some life into the team.
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I don't think Dave Woodhall was being serious about this being the worst defeat in our history, but it is another indicator that there is something rotten down at Villa Park that isn't being purged.
The trouble is that all these problems are kept behind closed doors and all we can do is moan about it or take our money elsewhere. That is the problem with football. A secret 'elite' group of people where fiddles exist left, right and centre with transfer dealings, tax avoidance is prevalent and, the worse you perform as a manager, the richer you get. Players are thought of as 'kids' if they are under 25 and we still keep throwing money at them. It is a disease being a match attending football supporter.
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He was tactically undone by Parkinson last night.The 3 behind Benteke just wondered around which left no cover on the flanks time and time again Bennet was left exposed and we didn't change it.It then got to a point where we relized we couldn't pass around them so just hoofed it to Benteke to flick on , which in fairness got us a goal but you expect better against a team that cost roughly Bent's DAILY wage.
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We're in the shit, I'm losing faith. Any other manager would be under massive pressure, especially after the state of performances and results this last month or so. I hate what's going on, Ok - I can see a longer term vision, which, makes sense. But, it's pointless if we're going to get beat by one of the worst clubs in the whole Football league. Wankers, the lot of them.
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Wankers, the lot of them.
That's the 'W' sorted in the A-Z thread.
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Against any opposition in the first leg of a tie we had a far too open formation that gave no respect to Bradford. Should have started with a solid formation 4-4-2 to get a grip of the game and take any sting out of the opposition. Then adjust it to go for the win. There was too much for Delph and Bannan to do and what they did was executed badly. I would have gone for Ireland believe it or not in the middle.
I do like Lambert and have no doubt he was sold Randy's romantic dream of a team of homegrown kids etc but the PL is too tough for this to be realised. I think this has dawned on Lambert and if Lerner and PF don't back him he realises his reputation will have been damaged.
We should stick with him imo.
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With what we've got to choose from who else could have played in midfield last night?
Holman and Herd both injured I guess due to their exclusion from the squad.
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Just look at his body language & total lack of fuck last night in the last 15 minutes or so, in fact in any part of the game. Him & Culverhouse whispering sweet nothings at each other, clueless.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing. There seemed to be absolutely no communication to the players from the coaching staff. He's got a bunch of kids playing and he was sitting in his dugout saying very little to them. Some managers like to stay quiet while their coaches do all the shouting but nobody seemed to be managing them last night.
Lambert looked as if he was leaving the kids to their own fate.
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Assuming he's staying he needs to face some cold hard facts and Lerner as well. The kids are in a lot of cases not really kids anymore and they're not good enough on the whole. Buying a few prospects from lower divisions is fine if your bedding them in slowly, not ok if they're the basis for your first team. They need to swallow their collective pride and spend money on experienced quality in defence and midfield, and we also actually need to do some training on the defence. If they don't we will go down.
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Bring back Brian little until season end with Peter Withe his assistant
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Just look at his body language & total lack of fuck last night in the last 15 minutes or so, in fact in any part of the game. Him & Culverhouse whispering sweet nothings at each other, clueless.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing. There seemed to be absolutely no communication to the players from the coaching staff. He's got a bunch of kids playing and he was sitting in his dugout saying very little to them. Some managers like to stay quiet while their coaches do all the shouting but nobody seemed to be managing them last night.
Lambert looked as if he was leaving the kids to their own fate.
Exactly. This is what has turned me against the manager.
I recall Arsenal coming to us in a late KO some years ago. They demolished us 0-4 in torrential rain and throughout the match Wenger stood on the touchline guiding his team, getting drenched in the process while our manager stayed out of sight, keeping dry in the dug out. You don't have to be a genius to work out who was in charge back then but the fact that this came into my head during last nights game is very worrying.
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Bring back Brian little until season end with Peter Withe his assistant
I said that on Brian Little's Facebook page last night (minus the Peter Withe bit) and Brian's wife "liked" it.
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Well, I have to hold my hands up. I thought Lambert was the right man for the job when the vacancy came up.
I was totally against Martinez at the time because I was worried he'd turn us into a soft touch, resulting in heavy losses against the good sides and embarrassing cup defeats against lower league teams.
I think I was worrying about the wrong man. Trying to be optimistic, it's not too late for Lambert to turn things round given time but there are times you wonder if he sees the things we see.
This January is so, so important.
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There's a photo half way down this report that speaks volumes.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/match-reports/bradford-3-aston-villa-1-547780
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Bring back Brian little until season end with Peter Withe his assistant
Shearer helped Newcastle didn't he? Now is not the time to make emotional decisions, things have to be looked at properly; players need to be identified and added to our pitiful defence and midfield, and quickly.
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Bring back Brian little until season end with Peter Withe his assistant
Shearer helped Newcastle didn't he? Now is not the time to make emotional decisions, things have to be looked at properly; players need to be identified and added to our pitiful defence and midfield, and quickly.
Exactly.
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I've said it before, I think his approach has been too emotional. He got the young guys up for the fight, and if you score first at Anfield that's fine, they're going to feel great, it'll work out. If, however, you concede two good (if perhaps avoidable) goals at Chelsea, the heads will drop and the confidence will drop further, and after the eight-goal thumping, that confidence was shot. Conceding that first against Spurs did the same, and against Wigan they came up against a balanced side who've developed a bit of sang-froid, which comes from a manager who sticks unfussily to what he does, and got steamrollered.
What we need is calm, stoic, almost emotionless players - inevitably experienced ones, the young players who have that innately are one in a million. At the very least we need that sort of leadership from the manager, but he just looks depressed. Teams take their emotional cue from managers, so no matter how bad it gets a manager must never allow himself to be as downbeat as Lambert's become, because it will be reflected back at him from his players, especially young ones.
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Bring back Brian little until season end with Peter Withe his assistant
Shearer helped Newcastle didn't he? Now is not the time to make emotional decisions, things have to be looked at properly; players need to be identified and added to our pitiful defence and midfield, and quickly.
Exactly.
Well I for one wasn't being serious, I just like the fact that Sir Brian's missus liked my comment! Little's been out of things for too long and I wouldn't want his name tarnished by being associated with this current rabble.
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Bring back Brian little until season end with Peter Withe his assistant
Shearer helped Newcastle didn't he? Now is not the time to make emotional decisions, things have to be looked at properly; players need to be identified and added to our pitiful defence and midfield, and quickly.
I agree to a certain extent. However, i think we are in the shut were in cause no one seems to show any emotion, passion, pride. Something's going to give in the next 7 days. Either we sign some experience and start to battle or this time next week PL is gone and were looking at our 'options'
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Lambert at Norwich was on the touch line constantly urging his team on , last night he looked like a man wh knew the game was up, as inspiring as a dirty dishcloth - doesnt look the same man to me - maybe he is out of his depth in a similar way to mike walker when he went from Norwich to Everton.
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Spot on, Monty
That's the thing with the young players - too much loaded on to them, too soon, and when things go badly, it is next to impossible to lift them.
Ciaran Clark, for example, might make a good centre half, Nathan Baker might make a good centre half, but at the moment we're expecting them both to do it, now, and playing alongside each other.
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Lambert at Norwich was on the touch line constantly urging his team on , last night he looked like a man wh knew the game was up, as inspiring as a dirty dishcloth - doesnt look the same man to me - maybe he is out of his depth in a similar way to mike walker when he went from Norwich to Everton.
Good point
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Bring back Brian little until season end with Peter Withe his assistant
Shearer helped Newcastle didn't he? Now is not the time to make emotional decisions, things have to be looked at properly; players need to be identified and added to our pitiful defence and midfield, and quickly.
Exactly.
Well I for one wasn't being serious, I just like the fact that Sir Brian's missus liked my comment! Little's been out of things for too long and I wouldn't want his name tarnished by being associated with this current rabble.
Of course not. It just triggered horrible thoughts of Newcastle fans turning up to our game with them equpped with "next messiah" banners
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I have come to the conclusion that PL has bent the stick too far away from pragmatism and short termism and is planning too much for the future. Yes, under MoN we lacked the flexibility to break defensive teams down at VP and yes, to be successful in the Prem, you have to be able to play several different formations and be tactically flexible.
But all the flexibility in the world is of fuck all use if you can't defend a corner and the entire defence is banjaxed by some elementary movement such as a run to the near post. Back to basics is needed at this stage.
Also, I like a bit of cultured passing and that class of thing, but I get very irritated when a player is left in acres of space, and instead of pressing it before making the pass, does it straight away, usually sideways. It is as though they have been programmed to pass it quickly whatever the circumstances. In the recent Wigan fiasco, their number 2 gave a demonstration on what can be achieved when this situation arises, which was frequently in that game.
In all the excitment of him joining us, we probably ignored the comments from Norwich fans claiming that in three years at Carrow Road, Lambert never managed to sort out the defence. I don't need the stats to see they had a very valid point.
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Bennett and Lowton as well, Paulie. That is one inexperienced omnishambles of a defence right now. They just have no idea what to do in any given situation - when on MOTD it was pointed out that, for the Routledge goal, the whole back four was in a line vertically strung up the pitch I couldn't believe my eyes; it has to be the worst defensive positioning I've ever seen. That's what's happening at the moment, they don't have the calm to stop, think about their jobs and execute them - they're just desperately rushing to the ball and hoping for the best.
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The calmest head in the back four at the moment is Lowton, I reckon, but yes, an entire defence of novices asked to perform together.
Also, Lambert was quite insistent at the start of the season that Clark is a CB, and in no way a midfielder. I'm entirely unconvinced by that argument.
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I think the cup run has what has kept him in the good books with Randy ,even with poor league performances he could point to the cup success as work in progress.Tim Abrahams from the E&S alluded to the fact PL would bring up the semi final when not prompted.Well after last night the cup dream looks in serious trouble as does the ridiculous marketing guaranteeing a cup final ticket for taking up a half season ticket
Against Wigan he was certainly up shouting instructions last night he just sat down the whole time no attempt to get them going at all.Look like a rabbit in the headlights as he did against Chelsea ...
If he stays I think we go down , if he goes not sure anyone who is avaliable who can come in and save us so we go down anyway... desperately depressing times.IF we somehow win Saturday thats are 7th win ..in 40 league games.
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The calmest head in the back four at the moment is Lowton, I reckon, but yes, an entire defence of novices asked to perform together.
Also, Lambert was quite insistent at the start of the season that Clark is a CB, and in no way a midfielder. I'm entirely unconvinced by that argument.
I think Clark is a centre back, and perhaps a decent one, but he just looks in severe need of a break, it all looks too much for him at the moment. Lowton I think has also really dropped his performance level since (surprise surprise) the Chelsea mauling - he's been at least in part at fault for many of our worst defensive moments since, and is another one in need of a break.
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ATM I'd probably welcome GT MK3 for 5 months. Rapidily approaching the the point where it's not who can we get that's better, but who would possibly do worse?
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I genuinely can't believe people are debating another managerial change. Four thousand Villa fans serenaded Lambert when his team gave our own a battering at Carrow Road last seasonand now, months into a tough rebuilding job, patience is already wearing thin. We can't keep doing this. We can't keep making and breaking managers because pretty soon our club (and suppporters) will be viewed as some kind of deranged, basket case - the proverbial poisoned chalice. Lambert is a top quality young manager. He needs time and he needs patience.
Here's a serious question: Would it have been "wiser" for Lambert's long-term managerial position at Villa for him to have thrown the earlier League Cup match v Man City in order to dampen down expectations and pressure on himself?
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The calmest head in the back four at the moment is Lowton, I reckon, but yes, an entire defence of novices asked to perform together.
Also, Lambert was quite insistent at the start of the season that Clark is a CB, and in no way a midfielder. I'm entirely unconvinced by that argument.
I think Clark is a centre back, and perhaps a decent one, but he just looks in severe need of a break, it all looks too much for him at the moment. Lowton I think has also really dropped his performance level since (surprise surprise) the Chelsea mauling - he's been at least in part at fault for many of our worst defensive moments since, and is another one in need of a break.
Yes, agree the Chelsea result in my opinion is the catalyst for this current situation. Quickly followed by 0-4 Spurs and 0-3 Wigan. This has destroyed all confidence.
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Dial 843213 and ask for the Paul Lambert School of Defending
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I know football is a game of opinions but Cieran Clark is a central midfielder. I've always thought this would be his most natural position. That's where he should be aiming to play his professional football career. His actually regressed as a CB this season.
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Sack him & then what? Who's going to come? And will they be backed? I seriously doubt it, Has to start with the chairman, tell you what, lose to Southampton, Newcastle, Bradford and it will be hard to carry on
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Against Wigan he was certainly up shouting instructions last night he just sat down the whole time no attempt to get them going at all.Look like a rabbit in the headlights as he did against Chelsea ...
It's this that bothers me more than the result. It's no wonder our players look so lacking in confidence and ideas, when our manager is the same.
He may as well have stayed at home and watched the game on TV.
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I get the feeling he has been stitched up by the muppets in charge and now knows it...
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I know football is a game of opinions but Cieran Clark is a central midfielder. I've always thought this would be his most natural position. That's where he should be aiming to play his professional football career. His actually regressed as a CB this season.
I things it's slightly harsh to judge him of late as he's been playing with a mish mash of fullbacks and midfielders as his partner. I always think the way to bring a young defender through is alongside a more experienced head, which we've not had due to the injuries to Vlaar and Dunne.
As to Lambert himself, I can see things starting to turn against him soon. He badly needs a result against Southampton and stick some fire in their bellies. 'We go again' isn't what we or the players need to hear - this should be tea cups against the wall time!!
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It's always worries me when I manager has nothing to do with the actual day to day training but prefers to sit behind a desk.I wish we had Chris Hughton
I admit I have thought this occasionally. No way they were gonna risk hiring another ex-Blues manager after the near catastrophic appointment last season. Therein lies the problems at the club though, no footballing people at the top with any common sense.
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I've been firmly in the camp of giving him time but there are more than a few questions about him, he keeps telling us to judge him on how his hungry but inexperienced team react to the numerous set backs they experience. The players don't seem to be growing in character after a humiliation, they are melting under the strain and seemed completely unmotivated last night. There was no hunger. To be tactically outmanouvered by a Division 4 manager was the candle in the pile of shit.
I'm not giving up on him but the honeymoon period is definately over.
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I know football is a game of opinions but Cieran Clark is a central midfielder. I've always thought this would be his most natural position. That's where he should be aiming to play his professional football career. His actually regressed as a CB this season.
I things it's slightly harsh to judge him of late as he's been playing with a mish mash of fullbacks and midfielders as his partner. I always think the way to bring a young defender through is alongside a more experienced head, which we've not had due to the injuries to Vlaar and Dunne.
As to Lambert himself, I can see things starting to turn against him soon. He badly needs a result against Southampton and stick some fire in their bellies. 'We go again' isn't what we or the players need to hear - this should be tea cups against the wall time!!
Lambert can count himself incredibly lucky at Villa. The fans really should be baying for blood but for some strange reason they haven't yet turned on him. In fact a lot of fans fell for the "young and hungry" bullshit hook line and sinker. I think the penny has finally fallen now though. About time the fans woke up to what is happening at Villa.
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I genuinely can't believe people are debating another managerial change. Four thousand Villa fans serenaded Lambert when his team gave our own a battering at Carrow Road last seasonand now, months into a tough rebuilding job, patience is already wearing thin. We can't keep doing this. We can't keep making and breaking managers because pretty soon our club (and suppporters) will be viewed as some kind of deranged, basket case - the proverbial poisoned chalice. Lambert is a top quality young manager. He needs time and he needs patience.
Here's a serious question: Would it have been "wiser" for Lambert's long-term managerial position at Villa for him to have thrown the earlier League Cup match v Man City in order to dampen down expectations and pressure on himself?
The problem I see it is that he has to show that he learns by his mistakes (i.e. formations, playing styles, personnal) and unfortunately he has shown none of that, he steadfastly refuses to alter anything. If we lost (showing effort and passion on the pitch) trying different things then I think people would understand and give him more time but if anything we are getting worse and sometimes drastic action is required!
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Always amazes me that the 'fickle' tag stuck for some. It took the Bolton game on 24th April before they turned on TSM, never really did under Houllier despite the Liverpool love in and Citeh debacle.
I think we back managers way and above what other clubs do, the Stripeyfilth for example turn on theirs regularly but like to see themselves as the worlds greatest supporters. Total bollocks.
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I know football is a game of opinions but Cieran Clark is a central midfielder. I've always thought this would be his most natural position. That's where he should be aiming to play his professional football career. His actually regressed as a CB this season.
I things it's slightly harsh to judge him of late as he's been playing with a mish mash of fullbacks and midfielders as his partner. I always think the way to bring a young defender through is alongside a more experienced head, which we've not had due to the injuries to Vlaar and Dunne.
As to Lambert himself, I can see things starting to turn against him soon. He badly needs a result against Southampton and stick some fire in their bellies. 'We go again' isn't what we or the players need to hear - this should be tea cups against the wall time!!
Lambert can count himself incredibly lucky at Villa. The fans really should be baying for blood but for some strange reason they haven't yet turned on him. In fact a lot of fans fell for the "young and hungry" bullshit hook line and sinker. I think the penny has finally fallen now though. About time the fans woke up to what is happening at Villa.
I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I haven't 'woken up yet' as he was coming into a very difficult job both financially and in terms of needing to change the playing style dramatically. He's made mistakes, but through out this season we have seen flashes of what he's trying to evolve us into. Not enough flashes, granted, but they are there all the same.
Injuries haven't helped, but ultimately the man has made mistakes and he'll knows that himself. I think changing managers now would be a mistake, but that does not mean he's getting my universal approval.
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I definately think we should stick with him. However, probably the main thing in his favour at the moment is that most people think we need some stability after too many recent managerial changes. The next five league games, Southampton, Albion, Newcastle, Everton and West Ham are huge. Also the two cup ties, as much for general confidence as getting to the next stage. We need to bring in a couple of defenders. Whatever anyone thinks of the ones currently fit the fact is their confidence is shot to bits. A couple of older heads are needed, even if just on loan.
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Lambert hasn't provided any stability whatsoever though, the team is an absolute shambles.
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Did Phil Parkinson replace him at Colchester, or was it the other way round?
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Momentum in football is significant, Lambert was able to utilise the momentum at Norwich to great effect last season. It’s easier to shrug off a defeat when you’ve got momentum behind you.
Our momentum right now is like a runaway train heading for the half built bridge. The train’s brakes failed before Lambert joined and he’s now the hapless driver staring with horror at the end of the track and the abyss beyond.
I really thought that he’d be the man to stop the decline, but we just seem unstoppable right now. No managerial appointment is going to alter this and the only thing capable of stopping us, is a desperate January scramble for new recruits.
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I feel we should stick with him. He does need to rethink and buy some experience - now
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Can't see the point of firing Lambert, who could replace him? Mark Hughes? Roberto Di Matteo? Hughes is a no-go for me given his transfer policy which is probably even worse than MON's.
Not sure would RDM be any better than Lambo either.
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To be honest, if we don't make Wembley, I'll be very close to losing all patience with PL. Most of our performances this season, with some particularly horrific stand outs, have been inexcusable. The longer he's in the job, the less excuses we can make for him. The seasons on a knife edge right now. Things have to turn around now and quickly now we've crossed into Jan. I think he might be in over his head to be honest. I don't know if the promising aspects come even close to matching the negatives aspects of PL's Villa side.
Inexperienced manager+inexperienced players is a dangerous combo. There's a severe dearth in quality that doesn't help either.
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I don't think he should go. He should however be given a substanstial sum to spend of two defenders and two midfielders. It's then critical that he gets in quality experience and not more young potential. Those potentially good young players will be damaged beyond repair if they're stuck in this side for much longer. We need experience and we need to learn how to defend immeadiately. If he fails to achieve this, he has to go.
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I think any other manager would have found a way with £25mil to make us more solid short term.
I like ,I assume many others thought Savage was talking out of his ass at the beginning of the season when he said we didn't have enough experience and would be in a relegation fight turns out the twat was right.
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I agree, he needs to make a couple of key signings in the next week, we desperately need a leader in midfield and a leader in the defence.
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Momentum in football is significant, Lambert was able to utilise the momentum at Norwich to great effect last season. It’s easier to shrug off a defeat when you’ve got momentum behind you.
Our momentum right now is like a runaway train heading for the half built bridge. The train’s brakes failed before Lambert joined and he’s now the hapless driver staring with horror at the end of the track and the abyss beyond.
I really thought that he’d be the man to stop the decline, but we just seem unstoppable right now. No managerial appointment is going to alter this and the only thing capable of stopping us, is a desperate January scramble for new recruits.
This is how I see it - over to you CEO
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I think any other manager would have found a way with £25mil to make us more solid short term.
I like ,I assume many others thought Savage was talking out of his ass at the beginning of the season when he said we didn't have enough experience and would be in a relegation fight turns out the twat was right.
But when you look at who Lambert signed in the summer, you have to agree that it wasn't nearly enough and it wasn't hard for Savage to come to that conclusion. Lambert has gambled our Premier League status on inexperienced players, it was incredibly irresponsible - it was worrying me right from the start of the season that we didn't have enough Prem experience in the side.
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I think any other manager would have found a way with £25mil to make us more solid short term.
I like ,I assume many others thought Savage was talking out of his ass at the beginning of the season when he said we didn't have enough experience and would be in a relegation fight turns out the twat was right.
He fucked us over when he changed his mind. Desperately need him to predict relegation for us again so the "Savage is never right" law comes back into play
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Still with Lambert, probably even if we go down. Its just very sad seeing our club like this.
We are looking worse than some of the poorer clubs that have got promoted and then relegated immediately in the premier league.
I really dislike Randy however, I'd rather the club be run prudently by somebody who actually gives a shit about the clubs FANS. Its not about money.
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We need a new defensive coach to organise this lot.
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As much as we've looked a little hungrier with young players. We looked less shite with too many overpaid, mediocre experienced players. They just about kept us up last season, albeit I think we'd have been comfortably safe had Bent and Stan not been missing half a season.
I still appreciate that in the long term PL will be far better than AM will ever be, and play more entertaining football. I can't help lean towards the decision that we've got the wrong man in once again.
On the flip side, who's out there? Who else could we get?
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Just look at his body language & total lack of fuck last night in the last 15 minutes or so, in fact in any part of the game. Him & Culverhouse whispering sweet nothings at each other, clueless.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing. There seemed to be absolutely no communication to the players from the coaching staff. He's got a bunch of kids playing and he was sitting in his dugout saying very little to them. Some managers like to stay quiet while their coaches do all the shouting but nobody seemed to be managing them last night.
Lambert looked as if he was leaving the kids to their own fate.
We were saying exactly this during the game. In fact it annoyed me more than anything last night.
Lambert was like a startled rabbit caught in headlights. No touchline leadership when it was desperately needed.
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Im happy too still stick with him. We need to look at long term rather than short term fixes and I believe that Lambert can be successful but only if he is given time to do so.
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I think any other manager would have found a way with £25mil to make us more solid short term.
I like ,I assume many others thought Savage was talking out of his ass at the beginning of the season when he said we didn't have enough experience and would be in a relegation fight turns out the twat was right.
But when you look at who Lambert signed in the summer, you have to agree that it wasn't nearly enough and it wasn't hard for Savage to come to that conclusion. Lambert has gambled our Premier League status on inexperienced players, it was incredibly irresponsible - it was worrying me right from the start of the season that we didn't have enough Prem experience in the side.
I still think he expected the experienced players we had to play a much bigger part than they have, injuries and poor performances from Given, Dunne, Ireland, Nzog and Bent have robbed us of the experienced players we should have been able to rely on.
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Im happy too still stick with him. We need to look at long term rather than short term fixes and I believe that Lambert can be successful but only if he is given time to do so.
Problem is success in the future can't be made at the expense of survival in the present.
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I agree, he needs to make a couple of key signings in the next week, we desperately need a leader in midfield and a leader in the defence.
Do you expect the board to act that quickly? - I've lost all faith in their timing of key decisions.
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Im happy too still stick with him. We need to look at long term rather than short term fixes and I believe that Lambert can be successful but only if he is given time to do so.
Problem is success in the future can't be made at the expense of survival in the present.
This is true its a very fine line at times. Im in the minority but I would accept relegation if it meant we were building something great but again it could also be at a cost we cannot recover from.
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For me it's a big OUT now. I've been around football long enough to tell when it's over. It's getting worse under Lambert . He's out of his depth and broken. I think he's lost the players too.
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I don't think we would be building something great, that's the problem.
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How could we be worse if we sacked Lambert? Could the defence get any worse? Could we be more disorganised? Could we score fewer goals?
We may - I pray - be sorting out signings right now. Some of them might be decent. Changing manager now would kybosh that for starters.
Put it this way, if we're not sorting out reinforcements, then I think we are fucked, whoever the manager.
I'd at least rather go down fighting than meekly giving up without a fight like we do under Lambert. His idea to motivate people is to mutter something about "going again" and treating defeat and wins in the same way. Does anybody imagine that Alex Ferguson treats his rare defeats in the same way he does a win? I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else. The only possible argument against getting rid of him is the thought of what that utter pair of cretins Lerner and Faulkner would try next.
You've no idea how Lambert reacts with the players. nor Ferguson for that matter (tea cup kicking episode aside).
I'm sick to death of the short-term thought process people are taking, more than I'm sick of being kicked every week.
We have to stick with someone that can take us forward, Lambert has been successful everywhere, as a player and manager.
I know it's difficult, christ, I'm in Birmingham today and it's not fun, that on top of the texts I received last night, however, we lost the first leg of a cup semi final. The time to judge is after the second leg at Villa Park. i.e. when the tie is over.
I know we've lost lots of other games badly, I'm not happy about that either, but I genuinely think we only need a couple of wisened heads in the mix to stop the rot and encourage the players. Anyone who thinks there is a quick fix for our club is in cloud cuckoo land.
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I just want a bit of stability. How about this, MON bails and we wobble, Houllier comes in, clears some out brings some in, he bails when his heart goes, we bring in Mcleish, he clears some out brings some in, gets the boot, Lambert comes in clears some out brings some in...
Who in their right mind would come and join us with that worrying trend? Who could we convince to leave their current job just to let history repeat itself? The team's pretty much been picking itself because of injuries and we need a couple of shrewd January signings to keep the wolf from the door, that's all.
I subscribe to this view, but you have to admit he's not exactly doing a good job, is he? The whole thing is just an awful mess and has been since Pubehead spat his dummy.
I'm not his most vehement supporter, but he has my full support for the time being. He certainly made the right noises upon his arrival (as most would to be fair), he was talking about playing the right way, even if you're down by a couple and chasing a game That every player should try their heart out for 90 minutes, and we saw early flashes of that. He talked about bringing in players of a younger age because it wasn't too late to mold them, drill disciplines into them and making an impression on them for the greater long term good, I believe he said that it wasn't a dig at the older pro's but that you just can't change their game when they get to a certain age. He talked about how we were a bunch of route one hoofers who couldn't keep the ball down. When he brought in Vlaar our distribution from the back was better and we were keeping it down.
Fast forward a few months and it would seem that he's done the complete opposite to all the problems he identified. We hoof it up field because we haven't got a decent midfield, the kids are ill disciplined at the complete basics, like staying tight to your man and not letting them goal side when marking, not getting dragged out of position, and trying to hit 30 yard hopeful passes instead of short triangles. We capitulate, roll over and die at the 65 minute mark in virtually every game. he started putting it all right, then all of a sudden we started going backwards. We went from 4-4-2 to 4-5-1 to 3-5-2 to 5-2-1-2, he's been doing the okey cokey with Shay and Brad while trying to juggle the Zog's bipolar form, Bannan's 'I'm the finished article' attitude, Ireland's general crapness at life, no midfield width for which he seems to think Gabby and Andi are the way forward, swapping out kids for kids and a midfield that like to kick the ball straight to the oppositions feet.
The thing that makes it tolerable for me is I see flashes of the team we could be, rather than the team we are. Every now and again Clark will keep it low, release Westwood who finds Bannan who miraculously hits his pass spot on to Benteke who heads in on to Weimann who slots it under the advancing keeper. You just have to put up with about 60 minutes of shit to be treated to it.
Good post mate.
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For me it's a big OUT now. I've been around football long enough to tell when it's over. It's getting worse under Lambert . He's out of his depth and broken. I think he's lost the players too.
Spot on. Our one tactic last night against a 4th division side was to hoof long balls up to Benteke. There's no sign of things improving whatsoever, and he should be gone already. Not many other owners would accept such dismal performance from the manager.
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but I genuinely think we only need a couple of wisened heads in the mix to stop the rot and encourage the players. Anyone who thinks there is a quick fix for our club is in cloud cuckoo land.
Isn't getting a couple of experienced players in ASAP exactly that? a quick fix?
His long term vision ( if he has one - and I don't share others' confidence about that) can only work if he fixes us short term
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but I genuinely think we only need a couple of wisened heads in the mix to stop the rot and encourage the players. Anyone who thinks there is a quick fix for our club is in cloud cuckoo land.
Isn't getting a couple of experienced players in ASAP exactly that? a quick fix?
His long term vision ( if he has one - and I don't share others' confidence about that) can only work if he fixes us short term
From what Matt Kendrick is saying that is going to happen.
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The calmest head in the back four at the moment is Lowton, I reckon, but yes, an entire defence of novices asked to perform together.
Also, Lambert was quite insistent at the start of the season that Clark is a CB, and in no way a midfielder. I'm entirely unconvinced by that argument.
Me too. In our current squad I would have him at Left Back before centre back if all were fit.
How much would Huth and Hangelaand set us back?! Get them together in the middle and stop being walzed through.
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@JamesNursey: Ladbrokes: "PAUL LAMBERT is the hot favourite in the dreaded Premier League sack race market according to Ladbrokes.He's now the 11/10 "
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but I genuinely think we only need a couple of wisened heads in the mix to stop the rot and encourage the players. Anyone who thinks there is a quick fix for our club is in cloud cuckoo land.
Isn't getting a couple of experienced players in ASAP exactly that? a quick fix?
His long term vision ( if he has one - and I don't share others' confidence about that) can only work if he fixes us short term
Whilst I agree with your last paragraph, I think a quick fix is something like Distin on a 6 month loan. A signing like Lescott, even though he's 30, as part of a more longtern strategy of signing the RIGHT experienced player to go with our youth.
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How could we be worse if we sacked Lambert? Could the defence get any worse? Could we be more disorganised? Could we score fewer goals?
We may - I pray - be sorting out signings right now. Some of them might be decent. Changing manager now would kybosh that for starters.
Put it this way, if we're not sorting out reinforcements, then I think we are fucked, whoever the manager.
I'd at least rather go down fighting than meekly giving up without a fight like we do under Lambert. His idea to motivate people is to mutter something about "going again" and treating defeat and wins in the same way. Does anybody imagine that Alex Ferguson treats his rare defeats in the same way he does a win? I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else. The only possible argument against getting rid of him is the thought of what that utter pair of cretins Lerner and Faulkner would try next.
You've no idea how Lambert reacts with the players. nor Ferguson for that matter (tea cup kicking episode aside).
I'm sick to death of the short-term thought process people are taking, more than I'm sick of being kicked every week.
We have to stick with someone that can take us forward, Lambert has been successful everywhere, as a player and manager.
I know it's difficult, christ, I'm in Birmingham today and it's not fun, that on top of the texts I received last night, however, we lost the first leg of a cup semi final. The time to judge is after the second leg at Villa Park. i.e. when the tie is over.
I know we've lost lots of other games badly, I'm not happy about that either, but I genuinely think we only need a couple of wisened heads in the mix to stop the rot and encourage the players. Anyone who thinks there is a quick fix for our club is in cloud cuckoo land.
This is my view. I still believe Lambert will get it right.
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I appreciate the arguments about whether now is the right time to be changing manager (again) and whether there are any decent potential replacements out there currently. But taking Lambert in isolation, it's very hard to make a case that he's doing a good job and is the only man for us.
It's not so much that he's the right man, more that the alternatives are even less appealing. Which isn't a great endorsement to be honest.
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This is the issue, I personally don't think he should be sacked(yet). We're not buried in the league and there's still time to turn it round. However he's not doing a good job and the overreliance on youth and inadequate players is killing us. This must be addressed.
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This is the issue, I personally don't think he should be sacked(yet). We're not buried in the league and there's still time to turn it round. However he's not doing a good job and the overreliance on youth and inadequate players is killing us. This must be addressed.
But then do you blame the overreliance on kids on his transfer choices or injuries? I still think if we had Vlaar and/or Dunne the sequence of results since Anfield would look quite a bit better.
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@JamesNursey: Ladbrokes: "PAUL LAMBERT is the hot favourite in the dreaded Premier League sack race market according to Ladbrokes.He's now the 11/10 "
Are they giving 10/11 on him not being the next manager sacked as well as i would pile in on this. If they are giving odds one way i'd suggest its an imperfect, distorted market.
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If we had Westwood last night I am sure we would have looked better too. The issue for Lambert is the squad he inherited was way worse than he thought I think, and the 9 players he signed last summer are fine, 3-4 are great signings, but the rest of the side needed more depth too, such as centre half and central midfield.
Had we got 3 fit central defenders - genuine ones I would go back to 3 at the back, as they were looking much better until Chelsea.
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If Randy wasn't willing to chop Houllier when we were bottom of the league going to Stamford Bridge in the January, McLeish when it was beyond a joke, then Lambert isn't going to get the sack, despite what I have predicted elsewhere.
Its staggering really. Southampton saw us collapse from a very comfortable position, as did Man City (although you feel with their quality they can do that to most sides), while four of the last six games have been catastrophic. You can take losing 1-0 at Fulham in a tight game or 2-0 at WHL when you've had some good chances yourself, because although you'll never enjoy losing, at least there was some competition. A few things falling differently would have seen 1 or 3 points.
But post Chelsea, the same frailties have been exposed time and time again and I am not convinced that we have the players within the club who are fit to do anything about it.
If Vlaar and Dunne had played, the regardless of how chronically weak our midfield is, we would not have conceded 8, 4, 3, and 3 respectively. We got away with it for 20 minutes at Swansea, and that’s great, as we were very even second half and got a point.
But again, Swansea exposed the same mental weakness, lack of defensive cohesion and organisation, lack of on field leadership, lack of midfield strength and physical presence, with a touch of quality going either way.
Lambert has to realise this and I am sure he does, so I am perplexed at why he isn’t doing anything about it. He may be working on signings now, but we needed them yesterday. In fact we needed them in the summer.
I will bite a bullet myself and despite me disliking him as a player, I would take Warnock and put him in the middle. At least he has a bit of nouce, a bit of experience and is not the pushover Bannan is.
We have an opportunity to stay up and it involves improving entirely the base and centre of the spine. Baker is a decent centre half. Clarke is not up to it, as its not just Torres who find it so easy to spin off him, its also dire 4th division nobodies too.
Bannan is physically and mentally weak. His style of play is atrocious. Delph, bless him, for all his deficiencies at least drops the shoulder once in a while and pushes the game forward. Neither are the answer.
The full backs are equally undercooked, Bennett especially, but it doesn’t help when the manager sets the team up in such a way that they get no cover.
Four players and 22 days to get them, that is the only way Lambert can keep us up.
The club needs a lift and a new signing before the week end will do that.
It sickens me to talk with any kind of defeatism and I hate talking up the opposition, especially one as diabolical as Southampton, but I am desperately worries about what they may well do to us this weekend, especially from set pieces.
Lambert needs to shake off some of his own tactical naivety and get them organised. The amount of times runners spin off their markers against us is appalling. The lack of cohesion when one centre half pushes up and the other drops in is equally as worrying. I don’t think these things come down to quality, more concentration and somebody to organise them.
Managers can only do so much and that’s why we need leaders on the pitch. Losing Stan has had a massive effect and is just as damaging as being without Dunne and Vlaar.
We were bumbling up and down up until December. There was plenty of bad, but some smattering of good. We have since collapsed and are retreating rapidly.
This situation can be rectified, but it must be addressed now.
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If we had Westwood last night I am sure we would have looked better too. The issue for Lambert is the squad he inherited was way worse than he thought I think
I think that's pretty fair. The impression I have is most people thought we had a fairly okay squad, being held back by a very poor manager last season. It seems that wasn't necessarily accurate.
Hopefully he's learned a lot about what areas of the squad need to be reinforced, urgently. Some decent signings to shore up the midfield and defence, and I think he should be given another summer to make the squad his own. I can forgive how terrible the season has been so far, as long as he shows he's learned from it.
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If Randy wasn't willing to chop Houllier when we were bottom of the league going to Stamford Bridge in the January, McLeish when it was beyond a joke, then Lambert isn't going to get the sack, despite what I have predicted elsewhere.
Its staggering really. Southampton saw us collapse from a very comfortable position, as did Man City (although you feel with their quality they can do that to most sides), while four of the last six games have been catastrophic. You can take losing 1-0 at Fulham in a tight game or 2-0 at WHL when you've had some good chances yourself, because although you'll never enjoy losing, at least there was some competition. A few things falling differently would have seen 1 or 3 points.
But post Chelsea, the same frailties have been exposed time and time again and I am not convinced that we have the players within the club who are fit to do anything about it.
If Vlaar and Dunne had played, the regardless of how chronically weak our midfield is, we would not have conceded 8, 4, 3, and 3 respectively. We got away with it for 20 minutes at Swansea, and that’s great, as we were very even second half and got a point.
But again, Swansea exposed the same mental weakness, lack of defensive cohesion and organisation, lack of on field leadership, lack of midfield strength and physical presence, with a touch of quality going either way.
Lambert has to realise this and I am sure he does, so I am perplexed at why he isn’t doing anything about it. He may be working on signings now, but we needed them yesterday. In fact we needed them in the summer.
I will bite a bullet myself and despite me disliking him as a player, I would take Warnock and put him in the middle. At least he has a bit of nouce, a bit of experience and is not the pushover Bannan is.
We have an opportunity to stay up and it involves improving entirely the base and centre of the spine. Baker is a decent centre half. Clarke is not up to it, as its not just Torres who find it so easy to spin off him, its also dire 4th division nobodies too.
Bannan is physically and mentally weak. His style of play is atrocious. Delph, bless him, for all his deficiencies at least drops the shoulder once in a while and pushes the game forward. Neither are the answer.
The full backs are equally undercooked, Bennett especially, but it doesn’t help when the manager sets the team up in such a way that they get no cover.
Four players and 22 days to get them, that is the only way Lambert can keep us up.
The club needs a lift and a new signing before the week end will do that.
It sickens me to talk with any kind of defeatism and I hate talking up the opposition, especially one as diabolical as Southampton, but I am desperately worries about what they may well do to us this weekend, especially from set pieces.
Lambert needs to shake off some of his own tactical naivety and get them organised. The amount of times runners spin off their markers against us is appalling. The lack of cohesion when one centre half pushes up and the other drops in is equally as worrying. I don’t think these things come down to quality, more concentration and somebody to organise them.
Managers can only do so much and that’s why we need leaders on the pitch. Losing Stan has had a massive effect and is just as damaging as being without Dunne and Vlaar.
We were bumbling up and down up until December. There was plenty of bad, but some smattering of good. We have since collapsed and are retreating rapidly.
This situation can be rectified, but it must be addressed now.
Well said sir.
For as much as I like the sound of the long-term plan and injuries have devastated us, Lambert must carry the can for the appalling lack of organisation in that team.
I think what some people don't yet grasp is that it isn't the cup defeat or the league defeats that hurt, it's the manner of them.
A fair few of us thought we'd be in a scrap this season but we've had a decade's worth of humiliations in half a season. I think if we get one more in the next couple of games, Lambert will be off.
As much as I don't want to look short-term, I do actually believe that if it came to it, an experienced manager can get a team well-drilled and win enough points to keep them up. Lambert could get us so much farther than an Allardyce but the risk is that much greater.
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If lambert is to be sacked then it has to be now while there is time for a new man to bring in 3 or 4 new players during the window , there would be no point sacking him in 2 or 3 weeks time when the deadline has passed .
Also if he was to be sacked we would need a new man to come in straight away as was the case with wolves .
I think personally that a Wigan like defeat at home to the saints would possibly see randy wield the axe , but it's a sad position we find ourselves in .
The body language of lambert last night was so unlike the man we have seen jumping about in the past - almost a realisation that the game is up. One things for sure though if he does bite the bullet then we can hardly blame randy for appointing him as most of us were clamouring for him to get the job.
I could never have imagined the situation would be quite so bad as this - truly sad times indeed.
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I think Christmas fixtures followed with Swansea and Bradford so quickly at the start of Jan can mitigate against there being no one in yet, b ut the club surely should have said to him name the 4 bodies you need to shore us up at the back and we will get them.
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If Randy wasn't willing to chop Houllier when we were bottom of the league going to Stamford Bridge in the January, McLeish when it was beyond a joke, then Lambert isn't going to get the sack, despite what I have predicted elsewhere.
Not so sure about this.We weren't getting trounced heavily on a regular basis and losing to 4th division sides under either of these managers.I think Southampton may be the tipping point should we lose
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He's not getting fired. I don't want him fired. I want him to do what we all thought he'd do, and I still believe he is capable of doing. Fix the fucking problem and rid us of this dark cloud that has lingered over the club for three years. I realise fully that football managers by nature can be stubborn bastards, but if he hasn't yet realised he has a serious issue, then he better and quick. He has 23 days to bring in players that not only will rescue the current season but provide a platform for seasons to come. Not an easy task I grant you, but that's what he is paid to do along with the scouts and Chief Executive. Just fucking do it so we can move past what feels like Groundhog Day around here.
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As I say I wouldn't get rid of Lambert, but he has to sign quality experience to go into this side immeadiately. The youth experiment is not working at all.
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My own opinion at the time that we appointed Lambert was that it was a gamble. I made a comment a few years back when our managerial merry go round started that Aston Villa are a massive club, and as such require a strong character to be successful. I.e. Saunders, Taylor and Atkinson. I really believe that people outside of Birmingham do not fully understand the size of the club, or the pressures involved in running it. Too many times over the years we have gambled with inexperienced managers, when we really need an old fashioned task master in charge. My own choice at the time would have been Hoddle. A man used to the pressure of managing at the top level. I know he wouldn't have been universally popular, but it's irrelevant now anyway. I don't think now is the time to sack Lambert, but if we are ever looking for a new manager again experience at the highest level is a must. Just got to hope for the best now. That team last night is finished! The only thing premier league about it is the name. We need some old heads in that team, and we need them sooner rather than later.
UTV
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Oh and if he can't find a better option, Warnock should be left back.
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He's not getting fired. I don't want him fired. I want him to do what we all thought he'd do, and I still believe he is capable of doing. Fix the fucking problem and rid us of this dark cloud that has lingered over the club for three years. I realise fully that football managers by nature can be stubborn bastards, but if he hasn't yet realised he has a serious issue, then he better and quick. He has 23 days to bring in players that not only will rescue the current season but provide a platform for seasons to come. Not an easy task I grant you, but that's what he is paid to do along with the scouts and Chief Executive. Just fucking do it so we can move past what feels like Groundhog Day around here.
This!
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He's not getting fired. I don't want him fired. I want him to do what we all thought he'd do, and I still believe he is capable of doing. Fix the fucking problem and rid us of this dark cloud that has lingered over the club for three years. I realise fully that football managers by nature can be stubborn bastards, but if he hasn't yet realised he has a serious issue, then he better and quick. He has 23 days to bring in players that not only will rescue the current season but provide a platform for seasons to come. Not an easy task I grant you, but that's what he is paid to do along with the scouts and Chief Executive. Just fucking do it so we can move past what feels like Groundhog Day around here.
Ain't it the truth.
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This season has been awful, we have had a couple of good 90 minute dsiplays such as Swansea and Newcastle, possibly include Sunderland and also a few good periods during games [Man U, Liverpool] but on the whole it has been very dissapointing.
Many are looking at the Chelsea game as a stating point for our problems but we were not much better prior to that game. We lost heavily to Man City, Southampton and Everton. We only got 4 points from the first seven games and then only 13 in the next 10 during which time we played Reading, QPR, Sunderland, Fulham and Stoke.
I will admit that we do now play the ball around better its just a shame that is genrally goes side to side and backwards, PL failed to build the team in the summer with some experienced heads and instead elected to go for untried younger players this can he has to carry himself.
His tactical plans are a mystery! anyone could see that the formation he chose last night was going to leave is vunerable to there midfield, a stronger 4-4-2 would have stifled them more, this did become obvious during the game but as with the game at Chelsea Lambert just could not change it.
The Villa now resemble a guy in a boxing match who is flaling and windmilling his arms around really fast and at times is hitting his apponent, but most of the time he is getting his head punched.
Lets hope that we dont get a knock out blow and end up in the championship as I fear we will not come back very quickly
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I can't believe how things have changed so much in 24 days.
I know that during our victories against Norwich and Liverpool we rode our luck a little but after those results i firmly believe that we had turned the corner.
Look how we marvelled over Wiemann goal at Liverpool.
Compare that to the dross and humiliation of last nights performance because for me I felt empty. I’ve never felt that low even after the the chelsea debacle.
Where do we go from here I really don't know, but I do believe that the only way to survive will be to back the manager in this transfer window and hope that with better quality players he proves to be the manager we all hope that he was.
Failure to invest and there is no doubt whatsoever that we will be a Championship club next season
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Many are looking at the Chelsea game as a stating point for our problems but we were not much better prior to that game. We lost heavily to Man City, Southampton and Everton. We only got 4 points from the first seven games and then only 13 in the next 10 during which time we played Reading, QPR, Sunderland, Fulham and Stoke.
We were 6 games unbeaten prior to Chelsea.
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Where do we go from here
Is it down the the lake I fear?
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I can't believe how things have changed so much in 24 days.
I know that during our victories against Norwich and Liverpool we rode our luck a little but after those results i firmly believe that we had turned the corner.
Look how we marvelled over Wiemann goal at Liverpool.
Compare that to the dross and humiliation of last nights performance because for me I felt empty. I’ve never felt that low even after the the chelsea debacle.
Where do we go from here I really don't know, but I do believe that the only way to survive will be to back the manager in this transfer window and hope that with better quality players he proves to be the manager we all hope that he was.
Failure to invest and there is no doubt whatsoever that we will be a Championship club next season
this club got a massive boost in confidence when we signed Bent. We were transformed in the second half of that season with one signing. Granted we had better players and we now need more than just one player to come in, but don't underestimate what two or three solid signings can do for the psyche of the club and fans.
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Many are looking at the Chelsea game as a stating point for our problems but we were not much better prior to that game. We lost heavily to Man City, Southampton and Everton. We only got 4 points from the first seven games and then only 13 in the next 10 during which time we played Reading, QPR, Sunderland, Fulham and Stoke.
We were 6 games unbeaten prior to Chelsea.
5 league games..
Liverpool won 3-1
Stoke drew 0-0
QPR drew 1-1
Reading won 1-0
Arsenal 0-0
So we were playing the 2 of the bottom 3 as well as Stoke and Liverpool out of those games the Arsenal match was a godd defensive display and the Liverpool game was good in spells during the game including some very good goals
The two games prior to the Arsenal draw were:
Man City lost 5-0
Man Utd lost 3-2
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Prior to Chelsea and up to the Liverpool match especially we were looking like progressing as a team (some good days, some average, some bad but something was taking shape) to the point I wasnt fussed if we did much business in January in order to give this team further chance to develop.
The change has been quite nauseating in its violence.
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One of the biggest problems is that they don't appear to have any back bone. When things go against them they crumble, and we need experience to help deal with that. Clark should not be captain either.
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How could we be worse if we sacked Lambert? Could the defence get any worse? Could we be more disorganised? Could we score fewer goals?
We may - I pray - be sorting out signings right now. Some of them might be decent. Changing manager now would kybosh that for starters.
Put it this way, if we're not sorting out reinforcements, then I think we are fucked, whoever the manager.
I'd at least rather go down fighting than meekly giving up without a fight like we do under Lambert. His idea to motivate people is to mutter something about "going again" and treating defeat and wins in the same way. Does anybody imagine that Alex Ferguson treats his rare defeats in the same way he does a win? I'm sorry, but Lambert is a small club manager in a similar style to Owen Coyle, who should have stayed where he was comfortable and left the big job to somebody else. The only possible argument against getting rid of him is the thought of what that utter pair of cretins Lerner and Faulkner would try next.
You've no idea how Lambert reacts with the players. nor Ferguson for that matter (tea cup kicking episode aside).
I'm sick to death of the short-term thought process people are taking, more than I'm sick of being kicked every week.
We have to stick with someone that can take us forward, Lambert has been successful everywhere, as a player and manager.
I know it's difficult, christ, I'm in Birmingham today and it's not fun, that on top of the texts I received last night, however, we lost the first leg of a cup semi final. The time to judge is after the second leg at Villa Park. i.e. when the tie is over.
I know we've lost lots of other games badly, I'm not happy about that either, but I genuinely think we only need a couple of wisened heads in the mix to stop the rot and encourage the players. Anyone who thinks there is a quick fix for our club is in cloud cuckoo land.
Im with you mate I have had so much stick at work but its not half as bad as a lot of whinging Villa fans. I can take the abuse because as deluded as It may feel I have seen signs that we have some sort of decent football hidden beneath the crushing defeats.
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Where do we go from here
Is it down the the lake I fear?
Aye.
Yi yi yi yi ya.
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I think we saw enough in the period leading up to the Chelsea game to suggest that we aren't that far away from being an OK team.
Buy a centre half, 2 experienced midfielders capable of controlling a game and stick Warnock back in at left back and we'll be fine.
Do nothing and we're fucked.
The board set out on this plan to reduce the wage bill and they selected a manager they believed was capable of achieving this whilst producing a side capable of staying in this division. Now is the time for them to stand up and be counted. Back him in the transfer window and pray that he is a good as we all thought he was when we spent the whole of the last game of last season singing his name
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I think we saw enough in the period leading up to the Chelsea game to suggest that we aren't that far away from being an OK team.
Buy a centre half, 2 experienced midfielders capable of controlling a game and stick Warnock back in at left back and we'll be fine.
Do nothing and we're fucked.
The board set out on this plan to reduce the wage bill and they selected a manager they believed was capable of achieving this whilst producing a side capable of staying in this division. Now is the time for them to stand up and be counted. Back him in the transfer window and pray that he is a good as we all thought he was when we spent the whole of the last game of last season singing his name
very reasonable post. you talk a lot of sense.
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Four players making the core of the team would indicate we are quite a way from having a decent team.
Who realistically be these four players.
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I'd go Hangeland, Momo Sissoko plus another defender and midfielder.
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If I ask myself honestly, have we improved at all from last season ? (a season which i've called my worst ever ... including getting relegated in '87) then i'd have to say no.
If I ask myself, have I seen anything from the manager to suggest that he can turn things around ?, i'd also have to say no. In fact he's looking completely clueless on the sidelines as his team falls to pieces over and over again around him.
Not a pretty picture.
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If I ask myself honestly, have we improved at all from last season ? (a season which i've called my worst ever ... including getting relegated in '87) then i'd have to say no.
If I ask myself, have I seen anything from the manager to suggest that he can turn things around ?, i'd also have to say no. In fact he's looking completely clueless on the sidelines as his team falls to pieces over and over again around him.
Not a pretty picture.
He can't turn it around with what we've got. Reinforcements are required and these should have been lined up weeks ago and ready to move here first week in Jan.
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this club got a massive boost in confidence when we signed Bent. We were transformed in the second half of that season with one signing. Granted we had better players and we now need more than just one player to come in, but don't underestimate what two or three solid signings can do for the psyche of the club and fans.
We also got Kyle Walker, who did well for us, and got the likes of Dunne, Collins, Petrov and NRC back in the side. Bent was the catalyst and headline grabber, but it wasn't all down to him.
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Many are looking at the Chelsea game as a stating point for our problems but we were not much better prior to that game. We lost heavily to Man City, Southampton and Everton. We only got 4 points from the first seven games and then only 13 in the next 10 during which time we played Reading, QPR, Sunderland, Fulham and Stoke.
We were 6 games unbeaten prior to Chelsea.
5 league games..
Liverpool won 3-1
Stoke drew 0-0
QPR drew 1-1
Reading won 1-0
Arsenal 0-0
So we were playing the 2 of the bottom 3 as well as Stoke and Liverpool out of those games the Arsenal match was a godd defensive display and the Liverpool game was good in spells during the game including some very good goals
The two games prior to the Arsenal draw were:
Man City lost 5-0
Man Utd lost 3-2
We also played Norwich away in the cup and I was talking in terms of all competitions.
Say what you want about the quality of the opposition, but it was a good run and the majority of us were thinking things were finally coming together under Lambert.
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He can't turn it around with what we've got. Reinforcements are required and these should have been lined up weeks ago and ready to move here first week in Jan.
True, but i hold him as much to blame for the weak squad and his use of what we do actually have as I do Lerner.
Lerner is the undoubted root cause of the last 3 years of utter misery. But each manager has also got to take their share of the blame, including Lambert. I wish I was one of those seeing this 'bigger picture' because i'd love to know what it is
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Say what you want about the quality of the opposition, but it was a good run and the majority of us were thinking things were finally coming together under Lambert.
I know it's all about opinions, but that unbeaten trio of games against QPR, Reading and Stoke were some of the worst games of football i've seen in years. Barely a shot on target, turgid aimless passing and no energy at all.
I didn't come from watching any of those with anything other than depression at what i'd witnessed
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If there's one thing I fucking hate it's our own fans calling us fickle and whingers.
Villa fans gave TSM time and have been vehemently behind Lambert from the off (look at the poll above).
It's bad enough the lazy press coming up with it but from your own fans it's a real kick in the balls.
Does my fucking head in.
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Say what you want about the quality of the opposition, but it was a good run and the majority of us were thinking things were finally coming together under Lambert.
I know it's all about opinions, but that unbeaten trio of games against QPR, Reading and Stoke were some of the worst games of football i've seen in years. Barely a shot on target, turgid aimless passing and no energy at all.
To be fair I've watched almost Villa V Stoke match since Stoke were last promoted and they've all been like that.
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Oh and from the few times I saw Makoun play, he'd walk into this midfield.
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Oh and from the few times I saw Makoun play, he'd walk into this midfield.
That's definitely true, but I think we can say quite safely that there were other reasons he left.
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Oh and from the few times I saw Makoun play, he'd walk into this midfield.
I think I could walk into our midfield at the moment!
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Say what you want about the quality of the opposition, but it was a good run and the majority of us were thinking things were finally coming together under Lambert.
I know it's all about opinions, but that unbeaten trio of games against QPR, Reading and Stoke were some of the worst games of football i've seen in years. Barely a shot on target, turgid aimless passing and no energy at all.
I didn't come from watching any of those with anything other than depression at what i'd witnessed
I would agree, the Reading game was aimless and a real drag to watch.
I have not seen anything from Lambert to suggest we are improving, I would love to be proved wrong but I just think that Lambert is out of his depth.
Some clubs are just too big for some to handle
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Oh and from the few times I saw Makoun play, he'd walk into this midfield.
I think I could walk into our midfield at the moment!
Probably about as easily as a Div.4 team can walk through it.
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Oh and from the few times I saw Makoun play, he'd walk into this midfield.
I think I could walk into our midfield at the moment!
Most opposition players walk through our midfield.
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I think it is time for Paul to add an (ex Villa) or ex defender to our coaching staff, to help us organise our defense. But don't ask me who is ideal. I think Paul need see if our players will response to different coaching staff better
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We have a Championship level squad, for which I partly blame Lambert. However, in terms of performances I've been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, because you don't expect to win matches in the Premiership with a Championship squad. However, you should still beat division four clubs. Still wouldn't sack him, but I am losing faith.
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I don't understand how we could even consider firing Lambert? He's doing what we asked him to do. A few bad results and people want to fire him. Who are we going to get that's better? Do people not realize that constantly changing managers is a big part of how we got into this mess?
I don't know what people expected of this season. Should we go back to how we did things last year? Play a bunch of old boys and hope for a draw? If I hear one more person talk about "experience" or "proven players" I'm going to lose it. Playing all "proven players" has been our problem for the past how many years. Lambert is on the right track to waken the "sleeping giant" I always hear about. The only way we're going to do that is to utilize our academy and invest in young players. We have players that are above our current calibre that are interested because they know we are willing to play them. Hopefully we capitalize on that this transfer period. Lets have some patience people.
In Lambert we trust.
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can i change my vote?
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Yes. Click remove vote.
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I don't understand how we could even consider firing Lambert? He's doing what we asked him to do. A few bad results and people want to fire him. Who are we going to get that's better? Do people not realize that constantly changing managers is a big part of how we got into this mess?
I don't know what people expected of this season. Should we go back to how we did things last year? Play a bunch of old boys and hope for a draw? If I hear one more person talk about "experience" or "proven players" I'm going to lose it. Playing all "proven players" has been our problem for the past how many years. Lambert is on the right track to waken the "sleeping giant" I always hear about. The only way we're going to do that is to utilize our academy and invest in young players. We have players that are above our current calibre that are interested because they know we are willing to play them. Hopefully we capitalize on that this transfer period. Lets have some patience people.
In Lambert we trust.
I agree to a point but its a lot more than 'a few' bad results. Still wouldn't sack him, I just don't think it's as clear cut as all that, ie yes we want the Lambert vision, but unfortunately it's looking like he may not be able to deliver it.
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I think it is time for Paul to add an (ex Villa) or ex defender to our coaching staff, to help us organise our defense. But don't ask me who is ideal. I think Paul need see if our players will response to different coaching staff better
Seane Teale would be ideal.
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I don't understand how we could even consider firing Lambert? He's doing what we asked him to do. A few bad results and people want to fire him. Who are we going to get that's better? Do people not realize that constantly changing managers is a big part of how we got into this mess?
They're not just "bad results" are they? A bad result would be losing 2-1 at home to Wigan; we lost 3-0. A bad result would be losing 4-0 away to Chelsea; we lost 8-0. A bad result would be drawing 2-2 away at Bradford; we lost 3-1.
These are appalling results and they're not isolated - they're coming one after another.
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I don't understand how we could even consider firing Lambert? He's doing what we asked him to do. A few bad results and people want to fire him. Who are we going to get that's better? Do people not realize that constantly changing managers is a big part of how we got into this mess?
I don't know what people expected of this season. Should we go back to how we did things last year? Play a bunch of old boys and hope for a draw? If I hear one more person talk about "experience" or "proven players" I'm going to lose it. Playing all "proven players" has been our problem for the past how many years. Lambert is on the right track to waken the "sleeping giant" I always hear about. The only way we're going to do that is to utilize our academy and invest in young players. We have players that are above our current calibre that are interested because they know we are willing to play them. Hopefully we capitalize on that this transfer period. Lets have some patience people.
In Lambert we trust.
Regarding the point in bold, are you are advocating not having any experienced or proven players in the team? We should continue with playing academy players and young unproven players?
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I don't understand how we could even consider firing Lambert? He's doing what we asked him to do. A few bad results and people want to fire him. Who are we going to get that's better? Do people not realize that constantly changing managers is a big part of how we got into this mess?
I don't know what people expected of this season. Should we go back to how we did things last year? Play a bunch of old boys and hope for a draw? If I hear one more person talk about "experience" or "proven players" I'm going to lose it. Playing all "proven players" has been our problem for the past how many years. Lambert is on the right track to waken the "sleeping giant" I always hear about. The only way we're going to do that is to utilize our academy and invest in young players. We have players that are above our current calibre that are interested because they know we are willing to play them. Hopefully we capitalize on that this transfer period. Lets have some patience people.
In Lambert we trust.
Regarding the point in bold, are you are advocating not having any experienced or proven players in the team? We should continue with playing academy players and young unproven players?
Adding one or two would be fine, but the calls to scrap the entire team; or bring back Warnock just seems like madness to me.
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Why should we trust lambert anymore ? He's both Scottish and clueless
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What has his Nationality got to do with it?
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Nothing really other than the fact I am completely done with Scottish managers down villa park.
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Nothing really other than the fact I am completely done with Scottish managers down villa park.
Scottish managers like George Ramsay?
To reiterate: what has his nationality got to do with anything?
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Scottish managers like McNeill, McLeish and now Lambert. Like I say no more Scots please.
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Oh and The Doc
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Scottish managers like McNeill, McLeish and now Lambert. Like I say no more Scots please.
But they were shit managers (apart from Lambert, but that's just opinion of course). Shit managers like Gregory, DOL, SGT Mk II. No more shit managers down at VP, I say. And Scotland tends to produce more than its fair share of good managers, so as far as nationalities go, seems to be a decent place to go.
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Scottish managers like McNeill, McLeish and now Lambert. Like I say no more Scots please.
But they were shit managers (apart from Lambert, but that's just opinion of course). Shit managers like Gregory, DOL, SGT Mk II. No more shit managers down at VP, I say. And Scotland tends to produce more than its fair share of good managers, so as far as nationalities go, seems to be a decent place to go.
Very harsh on Gregory and DOL.
And if you ever mention SGT (of any mark) alongside any of them, then I'm not sure how many people would have to restrains me from killin you ....
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DO'L was shit. Gregory was out of his depth. Neither of them are/were fit to lick SGT's boots.
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Scottish managers like McNeill, McLeish and now Lambert. Like I say no more Scots please.
But they were shit managers (apart from Lambert, but that's just opinion of course). Shit managers like Gregory, DOL, SGT Mk II. No more shit managers down at VP, I say. And Scotland tends to produce more than its fair share of good managers, so as far as nationalities go, seems to be a decent place to go.
Very harsh on Gregory and DOL.
And if you ever mention SGT (of any mark) alongside any of them, then I'm not sure how many people would have to restrains me from killin you ....
How is it harsh on DOL? And SGT's second spell was a disaster, in so many ways, particularly because it was him. You're right though, I wholly retract implying that he was a shit manager, he just had a bad spell, which happens even to the very best. Happy? No longer need to restrain yourself from 'killin' me?
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I think it is time for Paul to add an (ex Villa) or ex defender to our coaching staff, to help us organise our defense. But don't ask me who is ideal. I think Paul need see if our players will response to different coaching staff better
Seane Teale would be ideal.
Bloody good idea, what about Ray Houghton for midfield coach or Laursen as defensive coach. Seeing as we are owned by a yank then maybe we need a coach for every area of the game, same as Gridiron ?Maybe we just need to spend some fucking money and help Lambert out a bit with this current crisis? As for being clueless, i think that is a bit harsh. Young players in the prem are going to have to go through a learning curve. If we stay up then we will be stronger next season, if we go down and spend a season in the championship then that will help us to grow as a team and a club aswell. This "Sack Lambert" shite is very premature. I know we are all angry and pissed at recent results, but, is sacking him a wise thing to do ? I do not think so. Do not forget, all of us said at the start of this season " It is going to be a rollercoaster ride" " It is going to be a difficult season" and all the rest of the shite. Now we have people baying for blood half way through the season and after a two leg semi final. I am worried but not that worried that we should start sacking our manager. Look at the whole picture before you start asking for Lambert to be sacked, please. It is not his fault, he is just working under extreme pressure that comes from further up the chain. Ask serious quesions about Lerner and Faulkner and then you may get closer to the real problems inside our great club. UTV.
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We regroup and go again, again!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20954554
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We regroup and go again, again!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20954554
His catchphrase is getting boring now.
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We regroup and go again, again!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20954554
And I could go on a diet and lose 10 kilograms. It's not impossible, just highly unlikely.
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We pick ourselves up right about now and go again brother, right about now, we pick ourselves up right about now, we pick ourselves up and go again, pickpickpickpickpickpick right about now we pick ourselves up and go again, right about now, we pick ourselves up and go again go again go again gain gain gain. The funk so Villa, right about now.
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Lambert 10/11 to get the boot and di matteo gone from 20/1 to 2/1 in last few hours apparently
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We regroup and go again, again!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20954554
His catchphrase is getting boring now.
Better than the MON flip-flop.
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Spits.
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Lambert 10/11 to get the boot and di matteo gone from 20/1 to 2/1 in last few hours apparently
He's definitely 10/11 favourite with betfair, but I don't know what he was before last night
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Gregory was not shit, he was bloody excellent for a long time.
Would love him back down B6.
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Gregory was not shit, he was bloody excellent for a long time.
Up to a point, yes. I remember his record-breaking run. It all went downhill after that photograph.
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Althought I am now questioning whether he is the right man for the job, I am not sure what difference bringing Di Matteo in would make. If the players aren't good enough, they are not good enough - the ship that has sailed is yet another £20m of Randys money blown on patently non premier league standard players (save for perhaps Benteke who is still very much a work in progress).
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If we hadn't had so many managers come and go in previous seasons then Lambert would now be staring down the barrel. I'm guessing he's safe purely because of the need to stop changing managers, and not for anything happening on the pitch.
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Gregory was not shit, he was bloody excellent for a long time.
Would love him back down B6.
We're going to a forum with John Gregory on Friday night. Looking forward to it. He may have a tale or two to tell.
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Gregory was not shit, he was bloody excellent for a long time.
Would love him back down B6.
We're going to a forum with John Gregory on Friday night. Looking forward to it. He may have a tale or two to tell.
I hope it's the ones about having a standing order with the FA and how he had to drag the old man kicking and screaming into the 20th century.
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We regroup and go again, again!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20954554
His catchphrase is getting boring now.
Better than the MON flip-flop.
And DOL's "honest bunch of lads".
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Gregory was not shit, he was bloody excellent for a long time.
Would love him back down B6.
We're going to a forum with John Gregory on Friday night. Looking forward to it. He may have a tale or two to tell.
Don't mention the Serious Fraud Office.
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I think it is time for Paul to add an (ex Villa) or ex defender to our coaching staff, to help us organise our defense. But don't ask me who is ideal. I think Paul need see if our players will response to different coaching staff better
Seane Teale would be ideal.
sh*t, I will willingly give my life to have God's footballing brain transplanted into my young able and non dodgy kneed body.
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After lambert got it tactically wrong last night for me the faith has gone in his ability to move the team forward. Hes tried to push mediocre/good players out the club and brought in utter rubbish. He wont be signing any decent players this window and i fear the championship beckons
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We pick ourselves up right about now and go again brother, right about now, we pick ourselves up right about now, we pick ourselves up and go again, pickpickpickpickpickpick right about now we pick ourselves up and go again, right about now, we pick ourselves up and go again go again go again gain gain gain. The funk so Villa, right about now.
;D
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I think it is time for Paul to add an (ex Villa) or ex defender to our coaching staff, to help us organise our defense. But don't ask me who is ideal. I think Paul need see if our players will response to different coaching staff better
You may scoff, but I tell ya, put George Graham in charge of defensive coaching and you'll see an improvement.
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Scoff. Stevie wonder is a better bet than that twat 'Stroller' Graham. Buy Dawson, Parker, Samba, no matter what it takes. We'd be mid-table by end of season.
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If we had the money to buy Dawson, Parker and Samba I doubt we'd need an extra coach.
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We'll be lucky to get anyone worth having.
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Seriously though, if you were looking for coaching additions you could do worse than offer midlands-based and currently unemployed John Robertson a part time deal to come and work with Zog and Albrighton for a couple of days a week.
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Scottish managers like McNeill, McLeish and now Lambert. Like I say no more Scots please.
But they were shit managers (apart from Lambert, but that's just opinion of course). Shit managers like Gregory, DOL, SGT Mk II. No more shit managers down at VP, I say. And Scotland tends to produce more than its fair share of good managers, so as far as nationalities go, seems to be a decent place to go.
Very harsh on Gregory and DOL.
And if you ever mention SGT (of any mark) alongside any of them, then I'm not sure how many people would have to restrains me from killin you ....
How is it harsh on DOL? And SGT's second spell was a disaster, in so many ways, particularly because it was him. You're right though, I wholly retract implying that he was a shit manager, he just had a bad spell, which happens even to the very best. Happy? No longer need to restrain yourself from 'killin' me?
Happy now .... No killin (bloody fat fingers on an iPad keyboard) needed.
Re. DOL - I know it's hard to give credit to a total tosser, but we have to accept he managed a decent season or two, which is way more than TSM or McNeil were capable of.
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Go well, Paul.
Quotes from this morning's presser in the Express and Star (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/aston-villa-fc/2013/01/11/ron-vlaar-could-be-thrown-back-in-for-aston-villa/).
Ron Vlaar could be thrown back in for Aston Villa
Aston Villa captain Ron Vlaar could be thrown in against Southampton after manager Paul Lambert today confirmed he has resumed training.
The 27-year-old centre-back limped out of Villa’s goalless draw with Arsenal on November 24 and has not been seen on the pitch since.
But Lambert confirmed the Holland international will be in the included in tomorrow's squad along, provided he comes through training today unscathed, although Darren Bent will miss out with a knee problem.
Lambert said: “Ron trained yesterday and he will do so today so we’ll see how he is. We have certainly missed him. He’s an experienced player who knows the game.
"He’s been out for nearly two months. It has been a big blow to have lost him for so long. Darren Bent’s injury is not so bad. It will be about 10 days or so with his knee. Shay Given is out with a hamstring problem."
The Villa boss admitted that he will try to make “one or two” signings before the transfer window but indicated he will be forced to operate within tight budget specified by owner Randy Lerner.
Lambert said: “I understand the finances of it. The club cannot go into major debt. It’s got to watch itself. It’s something I will meet head on.
“ I have spoken to him. There are one or two lads there that we will try to get. A lot is dictated by finance. We need a bit of strength in the middle of the pitch.
“But prices in January can be so inflated that you can pay through the nose for someone and it’s a guy you maybe don’t want at the club.
"We have to build this club and not let it go back to what has happened before.”
Lambert also revealed he has had sleepless nights recently after a testing period which culminated in Tuesday’s humiliating 3-1 defeat to League Two Bradford in the first leg of the Capital One Cup semi-finals.
He said: “You don’t sleep. I think any manager will tell you that. It’s not been a great two nights put it that way. I love the pressure of it and you have to meet it head on.
“I don’t sit there and think it’s great. I hurt like everyone else. I’ll make mistakes like everyone else and I’ll learn. I have a belief that we will go and win games.”
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So we've no money, no one experienced will be coming in and he feels under pressure. Great.
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So we've no money, no one experienced will be coming in
I'm not sure where's he's said that.
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"We have to build this club and not let it go back to what has happened before.”
That has already happened. It has gone back to what has happened before and, arguably, worse than that. Doesn't mean that it will keep going downhill though.
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"We have to build this club and not let it go back to what has happened before.”
That has already happened. It has gone back to what has happened before and, arguably, worse than that. Doesn't mean that it will keep going downhill though.
I'd take that as a we're not going to load the club with more overpaid shite.
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"We have to build this club and not let it go back to what has happened before.”
That has already happened. It has gone back to what has happened before and, arguably, worse than that. Doesn't mean that it will keep going downhill though.
I'd take that as a we're not going to load the club with more overpaid shite.
True, we will just continue with adequatly remunerated shite instead.
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Mr Motivator at it again I see. "We'll try and get one or two lads in, but it's hard". Poor lamb, not as hard as trying to get out of the Championship next season will be.
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"We have to build this club and not let it go back to what has happened before.”
That has already happened. It has gone back to what has happened before and, arguably, worse than that. Doesn't mean that it will keep going downhill though.
I'd take that as a we're not going to load the club with more overpaid shite.
True, we will just continue with adequatly remunerated shite instead.
That did occur to me when I typed that.
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"We have to build this club and not let it go back to what has happened before.”
That has already happened. It has gone back to what has happened before and, arguably, worse than that. Doesn't mean that it will keep going downhill though.
I'd take that as a we're not going to load the club with more overpaid shite.
I think the club are being cautious of the fact that right now every club the we approach know that we are in a bit of a bind and unless you get loans in and wait for the summer, those selling clubs will want to take advantage of our position. I completely understand their side of things as it's a cut throat business. That said, the last thing we are going to want is what QPR are facing and will continue to face once they realised that Hughes blew millions in wages for players that will contribute very little, and who will pick up their pay cheques with a picture of Habib Beye smiling happily in the top corner for it to remain that way.
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How about we get some arguably over paid but-not-shite players again, like Milner and Young?
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How about we get some arguably over paid but-not-shite players again, like Milner and Young?
and Darren Bent? ;D
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How about we get some arguably over paid but-not-shite players again, like Milner and Young?
I think that's the aim.
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Maybe we should bet Big Fat Ron to negotiate the transfers? ;D
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Mr Motivator at it again I see. "We'll try and get one or two lads in, but it's hard". Poor lamb, not as hard as trying to get out of the Championship next season will be.
I think you're reading too much into the press bites.
He's most certainly a rollicker and a bollicker mixed in with some man hugging in the dressing room.
Great news about Vlaar. Throw him in. A half fit Vlaar is better than a fully fit Baker and Clarke. Hopefully the Big Dog will be back in the middle to drop a few bombs, as he is much better than Bannan at screening.
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I would like to think in all seriousness that with Vlaar and Dunne at the back our chances of survival and progressing in the League Cup will improve immeasurably. These are quite simply men. If we could get Dunne back for the 2nd leg 'it would be like a new signing'.
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I would like to think in all seriousness that with Vlaar and Dunne at the back are chances of survival and progressing in the League Cup will improve immeasurably. These are quite simply men. If we could get Dunne back for the 2nd leg 'it would be like a new signing'.
I would agree.
You look at Bennett, who may go on to be a good left back and you wonder whether he shaves or if can buy a pint without beind ID'd.
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I would like to think in all seriousness that with Vlaar and Dunne at the back are chances of survival and progressing in the League Cup will improve immeasurably. These are quite simply men. If we could get Dunne back for the 2nd leg 'it would be like a new signing'.
yeh, that's the thing. They are big blokes that when all is said don't take prisoners and will put a player into the second row without thinking twice even if it means a yellow card. Just sends a message to the opponent and instills confidence in the rest of the team. Sure, they are prone to making errors but there is more good than bad with having them fit and in the side. We're just too nice throughout the team and certainly in the back four that we are complete pushover.
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They are both needed, because Baker and Clark don't look up to it at the moment. They may be in the long run, but not at the moment.
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"We have to build this club and not let it go back to what has happened before.”
That has already happened. It has gone back to what has happened before and, arguably, worse than that. Doesn't mean that it will keep going downhill though.
I'd take that as a we're not going to load the club with more overpaid shite.
True, we will just continue with adequatly remunerated shite instead.
Didn't see it like that at first but agree with how you have read into it.
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They are both needed, because Baker and Clark don't look up to it at the moment. They may be in the long run, but not at the moment.
I'm pretty sure they'd both look a lot better playing alongside an experienced centre-back. At the moment there is no organisation or leadership at the back whatsoever.
But we can't really expect there to be- they can't possibly learn or improve with only each other to learn from.
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Thing is Clark has played quite a lot now, he should have better resilience and strength of character by now. Baker fair enough, but again I don't think now is for risking youngsters if it's avoidable.
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Thing is Clark has played quite a lot now, he should have better resilience and strength of character by now. Baker fair enough, but again I don't think now is for risking youngsters if it's avoidable.
Yeah but Clark is also the captain, that's a lot of pressure on a guy who's only really been a backup until this year.
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I think Clark could be a real big player for us. He is a proper footballer. The problem is, we are ruining the kid.
Over the last 12-18 months he has been thrown in to do a mans job, and now he has the added pressure of the captaincy. I think he has stepped up incredibly, but its a massive ask to take on the responsibility that he has already.
He needed to be brought through with experience alongside him to learn the game and nurture him.
I really hope he gets the relief and support he needs on the pitch and from his manager, because he deserves all the help he can get.
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I like Clark, but he shouldn't be captain at the moment. Also he's got to learn from his mistakes, he switches off too often and tries to intercept the ball and gets turned all the time.
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Captaincy has clearly taken huge toll on him and I was surprised he was made captain but did we have anyone else? Personally I would've made Guzan captain while Gabby and Vlaar had been injured.
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Mr Motivator at it again I see. "We'll try and get one or two lads in, but it's hard". Poor lamb, not as hard as trying to get out of the Championship next season will be.
I think you're reading too much into the press bites.
He's most certainly a rollicker and a bollicker mixed in with some man hugging in the dressing room.
Great news about Vlaar. Throw him in. A half fit Vlaar is better than a fully fit Baker and Clarke. Hopefully the Big Dog will be back in the middle to drop a few bombs, as he is much better than Bannan at screening.
How long has he been out for?
One days training and he is talking about 'throwing him in'.The bloke is losing it.
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He's 23 now, there comes a point where you have to learn from your mistakes and take responsibility for yourself, or else you're Curtis Davies.
I've yet to see him put in a really commanding performance at centre half.
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Mr Motivator at it again I see. "We'll try and get one or two lads in, but it's hard". Poor lamb, not as hard as trying to get out of the Championship next season will be.
I think you're reading too much into the press bites.
He's most certainly a rollicker and a bollicker mixed in with some man hugging in the dressing room.
Great news about Vlaar. Throw him in. A half fit Vlaar is better than a fully fit Baker and Clarke. Hopefully the Big Dog will be back in the middle to drop a few bombs, as he is much better than Bannan at screening.
How long has he been out for?
One days training and he is talking about 'throwing him in'.The bloke is losing it.
I think he has already lost it judging by his body language up at Bradford.
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Getting the first of the evening in now. Lambert out, the dour faced boring fucker, couldn't organise a raffle. What he does midweek between beatings is a mystery, he's stealing his wages not earning them.
Bennett - crap
Bowery - crap
Lowton - very average
Vlarr - Brittle
El ahamadi - crap
Westwood - very average
Benteke - ok
Blown what little budget we had. Made a rod for his own back with hutton, warnock and bent and the way he's handled them all. After weeks of ''we get up and go again'' shit it's finally hit home, we are going down with this man. Fuck.
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Getting the first of the evening in now. Lambert out, the dour faced boring fucker, couldn't organise a raffle. What he does midweek between beatings is a mystery, he's stealing his wages not earning them.
Bennett - crap
Bowery - crap
Lowton - very average
Vlarr - Brittle
El ahamadi - crap
Westwood - very average
Benteke - ok
Blown what little budget we had. Made a rod for his own back with hutton, warnock and bent and the way he's handled them all. After weeks of ''we get up and go again'' shit it's finally hit home, we are going down with this man. Fuck.
Who to bring in though?
And will they have the time and the funds in January to really make a difference.
As Paulie says on the match thread, it only takes a CB, a LB and a dominant DMF and we can change our game.
It's about Lambert and Lerner getting some reality, now ...
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Worst defeat in our history 0-8.
Worst start to the season.
Lowest goals scored in the division.
Most goals conceded in the division.
First defeat against a 4th tier club in our history.
Those are the standards we are dealing with, no one can tell me there isn't a single manager in the world who isn't on massive money who could do a better job.
I don't know names but then im not paid thousands of pounds a week to know these things. Same goes for players. Out team is shocking, there are hundreds/thousands of players out there who can walk into our team, that's the standard we've slipped to.
If there isnt a penny for a single player to be signed, sign a manager who can give the team a bit of spark, any kind of lift. This is like ground hog day, same formations, same defeats, same deficiences, same after match comments, Nothing is going to change with this man in charge.
Please do something, anything to look as though you are trying to save this club or go and fuck yourself with a javelin Lerner.
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OUT. Go now while we still have a chance of survival with a new manager. Lambert has been an unmitigated disaster.
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Getting the first of the evening in now. Lambert out, the dour faced boring fucker, couldn't organise a raffle. What he does midweek between beatings is a mystery, he's stealing his wages not earning them.
Bennett - crap
Bowery - crap
Lowton - very average
Vlarr - Brittle
El ahamadi - crap
Westwood - very average
Benteke - ok
Blown what little budget we had. Made a rod for his own back with hutton, warnock and bent and the way he's handled them all. After weeks of ''we get up and go again'' shit it's finally hit home, we are going down with this man. Fuck.
Who to bring in though?
And will they have the time and the funds in January to really make a difference.
As Paulie says on the match thread, it only takes a CB, a LB and a dominant DMF and we can change our game.]/b]
It's about Lambert and Lerner getting some reality, now ...
We'll not be getting any new players this month, so we need a manager who can get something out of the players we have. And clearly that's not going to be PL.
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Never mind the argument about resources, he can't motivate or organise HIS players. Out of his depth, painfully exposed and no prospect of it getting better. He's taking us down for sure and would be sacked then, at least a new guy MAY give us a chance.
How much worse does it need to get?
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Just organise, for fucks sake. 1 midfielder to shield the defense, and release the attacking midfielder. Defense hold the line, stay tight to you man, drop off when they try to drag you out of position, man mark on corners. Wingers help your full backs and vice versa. Don't just hoof it to Benteke and hope he'll do some magic, work for each other, run your socks off and try for the full 90 minutes. What the fuck, I'll send an application first thing Monday.
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It can't get any worse.
In the last month we've been beaten 8-0. Conceded 18 goals in a row without reply, got beaten at home by 2 teams in the relegation zone without scoring in reply, got hammered at a 4th division club and been told we have no money.
Anything else is just more of the same. This is rock bottom, we need some inspiration. There isnt a single player on the pitch capable of it and there isn't a single guy on the touchline either.
We need someone new to step in.
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I've changed my mind. Get him out.
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In the last month we've been beaten 8-0. Conceded 18 goals in a row without reply, got beaten at home by 2 teams in the relegation zone without scoring in reply, got hammered at a 4th division club and been told we have no money.
That is pretty grim reading.
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Pat Murphy has gleefully stated that we are 8 points worse off than under TSM after 22 games. He simply cannot survive anymore. Wake up and smell the fucking coffee Randy.
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I still don't believe that Lambert is the issue, and even if he is - what will sacking him accomplish? Who are we honestly going to bring in that's any better?
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Lambert and Lerner out. I'm sick of waiting for things to happen. I would have liked to see what Lambert could do under an owner who has a clue but it won't happen.
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Pat Murphy has gleefully stated that we are 8 points worse off than under TSM after 22 games. He simply cannot survive anymore. Wake up and smell the fucking coffee Randy.
Murphy can go suck off his boyfriend Martin No'deal, he's a sycophant jobber. We're shit but he's Pat Murphy and he has to live with being a twat forever.
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Lambert is starting to look like a broken man. If I were Lerner I'd be thinking about putting him out of his misery very soon.
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OUT! NOW! USELESS FUCKER!
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get rid now hes clueless and lerner sell now
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Lambert is starting to look like a broken man. If I were Lerner I'd be thinking about putting him out of his misery very soon.
He looked like he was going to cry at the end.
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In the last month we've been beaten 8-0. Conceded 18 goals in a row without reply, got beaten at home by 2 teams in the relegation zone without scoring in reply, got hammered at a 4th division club and been told we have no money.
That is pretty grim reading.
Shocking, truly shocking. It has gone horribly wrong. But even if they fire Lambert who is going to replace him?
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Pat Murphy has gleefully stated that we are 8 points worse off than under TSM after 22 games. He simply cannot survive anymore. Wake up and smell the fucking coffee Randy.
Murphy can go suck off his boyfriend Martin No'deal, he's a sycophant jobber. We're shit but he's Pat Murphy and he has to live with being a twat forever.
That's as maybe but it's still a shocker. Eight points worse off and no real improvement on performances either.
I wanted Lambert to stay but I'm coming round to the idea that it's time for him to go. But then who else could do better in the present circumstances? They'll still have to do the job with one hand tied behind their back.
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Lambert is starting to look like a broken man. If I were Lerner I'd be thinking about putting him out of his misery very soon.
Thinking about it? It should be beyond that stage by now.
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Even worse, that's six points we've given Southampton this season.
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I still think he should stay.
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Lambert is starting to look like a broken man. If I were Lerner I'd be thinking about putting him out of his misery very soon.
He looked like he was going to cry at the end.
Does anybody seriously think that Lambert's 'vision for the future' isn't going to end in inglorious relegation? We are truly, truly dire at every aspect of the game, and while Lerner should be shot for crimes against the Villa, Lambert has to take his share of the blame.
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It can't get any worse.
In the last month we've been beaten 8-0. Conceded 18 goals in a row without reply, got beaten at home by 2 teams in the relegation zone without scoring in reply, got hammered at a 4th division club and been told we have no money.
Anything else is just more of the same. This is rock bottom, we need some inspiration. There isnt a single player on the pitch capable of it and there isn't a single guy on the touchline either.
We need someone new to step in.
What scares me is that there's no-one looking down on Lambert that gives a shit either. He's the 3rd manager thats been thrown at the club and all they want to do is run the place on a a shoe string
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I still think he should stay.
You're clinically insane though.
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Lambert is starting to look like a broken man. If I were Lerner I'd be thinking about putting him out of his misery very soon.
He looked like he was going to cry at the end.
Does anybody seriously think that Lambert's 'vision for the future' isn't going to end in inglorious relegation? We are truly, truly dire at every aspect of the game, and while Lerner should be shot for crimes against the Villa, Lambert has to take his share of the blame.
Wasnt Lamberts plan to have players that were hungry for success? They must be starving now!!
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Pat Murphy has gleefully stated that we are 8 points worse off than under TSM after 22 games. He simply cannot survive anymore. Wake up and smell the fucking coffee Randy.
Murphy can go suck off his boyfriend Martin No'deal, he's a sycophant jobber. We're shit but he's Pat Murphy and he has to live with being a twat forever.
That's as maybe but it's still a shocker. Eight points worse off and no real improvement on performances either.
I wanted Lambert to stay but I'm coming round to the idea that it's time for him to go. But then who else could do better in the present circumstances? They'll still have to do the job with one hand tied behind their back.
No real improvement? WTF? It's been a whole fucking lot worse than TSM.
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Common denominator is the phrase of the day. Give him the tools to do the job. Mind you, we have plenty of tools already.
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Lambert is starting to look like a broken man. If I were Lerner I'd be thinking about putting him out of his misery very soon.
He looked like he was going to cry at the end.
Does anybody seriously think that Lambert's 'vision for the future' isn't going to end in inglorious relegation? We are truly, truly dire at every aspect of the game, and while Lerner should be shot for crimes against the Villa, Lambert has to take his share of the blame.
Of course he deserves his share of the blame.
There's one thing that can save us this season, and that's the immediate acquisition of a left back, a centre half, and a midfielder, and all three players simply must be experienced.
12th Jan today, that's 2.5 weeks to get them in. If we're going to throw in a managerial change, too, then forget it, it isn't going to happen.
For weeks now, we've watched a team of kids getting mullered, their confidence dies a bit more every single week.
There isn't a manager out there who is going to be able to take that piss poor squad - and it doesn't make any difference how many of them Lambert bought, it's a shit squad, full stop - and turn things around.
Lambert needs to get his act together, definitely, but I'm afraid that without the assistance of our stay-away, absentee, clueless idiot of an owner, then we're done for, no matter who is in charge.
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I wanted Lambert in 2011. I was delighted when he came in the summer. However, this cannot go on. This is turning out to be the most humiliating season in my Villa-supporting lifetime. I actually think that it is panning out to be even worse than 86-87.
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Common denominator is the phrase of the day. Give him the tools to do the job. Mind you, we have plenty of tools already.
He had £25m to spend on a squad that a manager (who you thought was fantastic) kept in the league.
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Time for him to go. Yes, he's handicapped by crap/young players, an arsehole of a chairman, a fuckwitt Chief Executive and no money, but there's no excuse for not being able to field a vaguely organised side. I hoped it was down to confidence but i fear the confidence they've lost is in him. Get someone else in - we may still go down but lets go down fighting eh?.
Like to see the poll reset so we can get an idea of what people think now
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Lambert is starting to look like a broken man. If I were Lerner I'd be thinking about putting him out of his misery very soon.
He looked like he was going to cry at the end.
Does anybody seriously think that Lambert's 'vision for the future' isn't going to end in inglorious relegation? We are truly, truly dire at every aspect of the game, and while Lerner should be shot for crimes against the Villa, Lambert has to take his share of the blame.
Of course he deserves his share of the blame.
There's one thing that can save us this season, and that's the immediate acquisition of a left back, a centre half, and a midfielder, and all three players simply must be experienced.
12th Jan today, that's 2.5 weeks to get them in. If we're going to throw in a managerial change, too, then forget it, it isn't going to happen.
For weeks now, we've watched a team of kids getting mullered, their confidence dies a bit more every single week.
There isn't a manager out there who is going to be able to take that piss poor squad - and it doesn't make any difference how many of them Lambert bought, it's a shit squad, full stop - and turn things around.
Lambert needs to get his act together, definitely, but I'm afraid that without the assistance of our stay-away, absentee, clueless idiot of an owner, then we're done for, no matter who is in charge.
nail hit on head
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Lambert is starting to look like a broken man. If I were Lerner I'd be thinking about putting him out of his misery very soon.
He looked like he was going to cry at the end.
Does anybody seriously think that Lambert's 'vision for the future' isn't going to end in inglorious relegation? We are truly, truly dire at every aspect of the game, and while Lerner should be shot for crimes against the Villa, Lambert has to take his share of the blame.
Of course he deserves his share of the blame.
There's one thing that can save us this season, and that's the immediate acquisition of a left back, a centre half, and a midfielder, and all three players simply must be experienced.
12th Jan today, that's 2.5 weeks to get them in. If we're going to throw in a managerial change, too, then forget it, it isn't going to happen.
For weeks now, we've watched a team of kids getting mullered, their confidence dies a bit more every single week.
There isn't a manager out there who is going to be able to take that piss poor squad - and it doesn't make any difference how many of them Lambert bought, it's a shit squad, full stop - and turn things around.
Lambert needs to get his act together, definitely, but I'm afraid that without the assistance of our stay-away, absentee, clueless idiot of an owner, then we're done for, no matter who is in charge.
Is how I see it.
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Pat Murphy has gleefully stated that we are 8 points worse off than under TSM after 22 games. He simply cannot survive anymore. Wake up and smell the fucking coffee Randy.
Murphy can go suck off his boyfriend Martin No'deal, he's a sycophant jobber. We're shit but he's Pat Murphy and he has to live with being a twat forever.
That's as maybe but it's still a shocker. Eight points worse off and no real improvement on performances either.
I wanted Lambert to stay but I'm coming round to the idea that it's time for him to go. But then who else could do better in the present circumstances? They'll still have to do the job with one hand tied behind their back.
No real improvement? WTF? It's been a whole fucking lot worse than TSM.
Well that's kind of what I meant, just worded badly.
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We need 5 wins to stay up, do people really think we're going to get them under Lambert when we've just lost twice to relegation candidates without even scoring a goal?
Beyond two new experienced players, we need half a team tbh.
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Time to go unfortunately.
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Enough is enough
Time to wake up and smell the coffee
Will we get a reduction in season tickets next year for the championship?
Biggest earnings stream in the premier league next year and Laurel and Hardy cant spend any money.
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RESET THE POLL
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Of course he deserves his share of the blame.
There's one thing that can save us this season, and that's the immediate acquisition of a left back, a centre half, and a midfielder, and all three players simply must be experienced.
12th Jan today, that's 2.5 weeks to get them in. If we're going to throw in a managerial change, too, then forget it, it isn't going to happen.
For weeks now, we've watched a team of kids getting mullered, their confidence dies a bit more every single week.
There isn't a manager out there who is going to be able to take that piss poor squad - and it doesn't make any difference how many of them Lambert bought, it's a shit squad, full stop - and turn things around.
Lambert needs to get his act together, definitely, but I'm afraid that without the assistance of our stay-away, absentee, clueless idiot of an owner, then we're done for, no matter who is in charge.
[/quote]
Exactly how I see it. Lambert made a huge mistake in believing that he had a squad which was good enough, it is obvious that he hasnt. The absence of a experience and ability in critical positions (central midfield being the most obvious) is down to him. But the real culprit is Lerner.
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What's wrong in the team is that we don't have anyone to dictate the tempo/game and take the responsibility to make things happen. Westwood is good for calming the game down and keeping everything neat and tidy but he's not that sort of player. Lerner and Lambert needs to buy a midfielder who can put his foot down on the game but I can't see Lambert turning the team around even with anyone like that.
I had high hopes for Lambert but he clearly can't motivate the players to fight and they look like they've lost faith in him too.
I know Mark Hughes probably wouldn't be choice for most people but is there anyone else to take the job?
I can't see anyway how Lambert could turn this around, for the first half tonight's game our players didn't have any bite in them and they only started to play in the 60th minute...yet again. I don't want Lambert to get fired, I want him to resign so we wouldn't have to pay combo.
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RESET THE POLL
New Poll
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Get this guy in quick.
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I created a new poll because no one would reset this one .
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Of course he deserves his share of the blame.
There's one thing that can save us this season, and that's the immediate acquisition of a left back, a centre half, and a midfielder, and all three players simply must be experienced.
12th Jan today, that's 2.5 weeks to get them in. If we're going to throw in a managerial change, too, then forget it, it isn't going to happen.
For weeks now, we've watched a team of kids getting mullered, their confidence dies a bit more every single week.
There isn't a manager out there who is going to be able to take that piss poor squad - and it doesn't make any difference how many of them Lambert bought, it's a shit squad, full stop - and turn things around.
Lambert needs to get his act together, definitely, but I'm afraid that without the assistance of our stay-away, absentee, clueless idiot of an owner, then we're done for, no matter who is in charge.
Exactly how I see it. Lambert made a huge mistake in believing that he had a squad which was good enough, it is obvious that he hasnt. The absence of a experience and ability in critical positions (central midfield being the most obvious) is down to him. But the real culprit is Lerner.
[/quote]
thing is,the money is not there so while you're right to blame Lerner, its doesn't stop us getting beat every week. We can carry on with lambert and play like a disorganised rabble until we're put out of our misery in May, or bring someone in. He doesn't have to be a great maanger, just someone who can organise a defence and make us hard to beat. We're shit but not shitter than Reading or Bradford - under lambert we are.
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Of course he deserves his share of the blame.
There's one thing that can save us this season, and that's the immediate acquisition of a left back, a centre half, and a midfielder, and all three players simply must be experienced.
12th Jan today, that's 2.5 weeks to get them in. If we're going to throw in a managerial change, too, then forget it, it isn't going to happen.
For weeks now, we've watched a team of kids getting mullered, their confidence dies a bit more every single week.
There isn't a manager out there who is going to be able to take that piss poor squad - and it doesn't make any difference how many of them Lambert bought, it's a shit squad, full stop - and turn things around.
Lambert needs to get his act together, definitely, but I'm afraid that without the assistance of our stay-away, absentee, clueless idiot of an owner, then we're done for, no matter who is in charge.
Exactly how I see it. Lambert made a huge mistake in believing that he had a squad which was good enough, it is obvious that he hasnt. The absence of a experience and ability in critical positions (central midfield being the most obvious) is down to him. But the real culprit is Lerner.
thing is,the money is not there so while you're right to blame Lerner, its doesn't stop us getting beat every week. We can carry on with lambert and play like a disorganised rabble until we're put out of our misery in May, or bring someone in. He doesn't have to be a great maanger, just someone who can organise a defence and make us hard to beat. We're shit but not shitter than Reading or Bradford - under lambert we are.
[/quote]if we are relying on Baker and Clarke without any cover in front of them and no left back then we are down. Not sure Vlaar will make that much difference.
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Of course he deserves his share of the blame.
There's one thing that can save us this season, and that's the immediate acquisition of a left back, a centre half, and a midfielder, and all three players simply must be experienced.
12th Jan today, that's 2.5 weeks to get them in. If we're going to throw in a managerial change, too, then forget it, it isn't going to happen.
For weeks now, we've watched a team of kids getting mullered, their confidence dies a bit more every single week.
There isn't a manager out there who is going to be able to take that piss poor squad - and it doesn't make any difference how many of them Lambert bought, it's a shit squad, full stop - and turn things around.
Lambert needs to get his act together, definitely, but I'm afraid that without the assistance of our stay-away, absentee, clueless idiot of an owner, then we're done for, no matter who is in charge.
Exactly how I see it. Lambert made a huge mistake in believing that he had a squad which was good enough, it is obvious that he hasnt. The absence of a experience and ability in critical positions (central midfield being the most obvious) is down to him. But the real culprit is Lerner.
thing is,the money is not there so while you're right to blame Lerner, its doesn't stop us getting beat every week. We can carry on with lambert and play like a disorganised rabble until we're put out of our misery in May, or bring someone in. He doesn't have to be a great maanger, just someone who can organise a defence and make us hard to beat. We're shit but not shitter than Reading or Bradford - under lambert we are.
if we are relying on Baker and Clarke without any cover in front of them and no left back then we are down. Not sure Vlaar will make that much difference.
[/quote]
mebbe a new guy could get something out of warnock, Hutton and Dunne. I know clutching at straws but lambert won't even try
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Of course he deserves his share of the blame.
There's one thing that can save us this season, and that's the immediate acquisition of a left back, a centre half, and a midfielder, and all three players simply must be experienced.
12th Jan today, that's 2.5 weeks to get them in. If we're going to throw in a managerial change, too, then forget it, it isn't going to happen.
For weeks now, we've watched a team of kids getting mullered, their confidence dies a bit more every single week.
There isn't a manager out there who is going to be able to take that piss poor squad - and it doesn't make any difference how many of them Lambert bought, it's a shit squad, full stop - and turn things around.
Lambert needs to get his act together, definitely, but I'm afraid that without the assistance of our stay-away, absentee, clueless idiot of an owner, then we're done for, no matter who is in charge.
Exactly how I see it. Lambert made a huge mistake in believing that he had a squad which was good enough, it is obvious that he hasnt. The absence of a experience and ability in critical positions (central midfield being the most obvious) is down to him. But the real culprit is Lerner.
thing is,the money is not there so while you're right to blame Lerner,
[/quote]
Thing is it's well documented that there was more money to spend in the Summer but PL chose not to spend it and went down the young and hungry route.RL has made a complete hash of things but PL is largely to blame for our present psition.I am hoping there is money for the new manager which is why PL hasn't made any signings thus far
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Of course he deserves his share of the blame.
There's one thing that can save us this season, and that's the immediate acquisition of a left back, a centre half, and a midfielder, and all three players simply must be experienced.
12th Jan today, that's 2.5 weeks to get them in. If we're going to throw in a managerial change, too, then forget it, it isn't going to happen.
For weeks now, we've watched a team of kids getting mullered, their confidence dies a bit more every single week.
There isn't a manager out there who is going to be able to take that piss poor squad - and it doesn't make any difference how many of them Lambert bought, it's a shit squad, full stop - and turn things around.
Lambert needs to get his act together, definitely, but I'm afraid that without the assistance of our stay-away, absentee, clueless idiot of an owner, then we're done for, no matter who is in charge.
Exactly how I see it. Lambert made a huge mistake in believing that he had a squad which was good enough, it is obvious that he hasnt. The absence of a experience and ability in critical positions (central midfield being the most obvious) is down to him. But the real culprit is Lerner.
thing is,the money is not there so while you're right to blame Lerner,
Thing is it's well documented that there was more money to spend in the Summer but PL chose not to spend it and went down the young and hungry route.RL has made a complete hash of things but PL is largely to blame for our present psition.I am hoping there is money for the new manager which is why PL hasn't made any signings thus far
[/quote]this well documented, money was there not spent, where? I really would like to know
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Out I'm afraid.
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Slightly unfair to reset the poll just after we've lost to a poor team at home. Had it been reset after the Liverpool game there'd have been a very different response.
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The worry is he sacks Lambert and hires Mark Hughes, I do not want him down Villa Park!
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Slightly unfair to reset the poll just after we've lost to a poor team at home. Had it been reset after the Liverpool game there'd have been a very different response.
Yes, it's just the loss to Southampton at home that has led to the change in views. Absolutely. *Head banging emoticon*
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How can it be his fault when he doesn't have the backing? He's been given transfer budget but no wage budget, its all well and good paying a fee if he cant pay a player.
Today the referee was fucking abysmal and Benteke should have had 3, I wouldn't blame Lambo for that
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The best argument in favour of him staying is the absolute dread about who those buffoons Lerner and Faulkner will bring in next. How's Joe Kinnear doing?
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Its his fault when he is as Pig headed as he is.
Warnock needs to be brought back in - and I would also be playing Ireland in our current predicament.
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Slightly unfair to reset the poll just after we've lost to a poor team at home. Had it been reset after the Liverpool game there'd have been a very different response.
There was no question of anyone wanting him out up to the Liverpool game but since then we've shipped 18 goals,picked up 1 point in 5 and lost to a 4th division side
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Time to go Paul. You are not as good as I thought you was.
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Slightly unfair to reset the poll just after we've lost to a poor team at home. Had it been reset after the Liverpool game there'd have been a very different response.
Yes, it's just the loss to Southampton at home that has led to the change in views. Absolutely. *Head banging emoticon*
I direct you to the 'Things I've read on here' thread to see the wildly-swinging views depending on the latest result. If the H&V forum was a human being it would've been daignosed with bi-polar disorder a long time ago.
If the point of a poll is to be representative I don't think resetting it when fans are probably at their lowest ebb is going to get that result.
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How can it be his fault when he doesn't have the backing? He's been given transfer budget but no wage budget, its all well and good paying a fee if he cant pay a player.
Today the referee was fucking abysmal and Benteke should have had 3, I wouldn't blame Lambo for that
It's his fault he bought in a load of kids when it was clear some experience was needed, how about some loan players if wages were an issue ?
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How can it be his fault when he doesn't have the backing? He's been given transfer budget but no wage budget, its all well and good paying a fee if he cant pay a player.
Today the referee was fucking abysmal and Benteke should have had 3, I wouldn't blame Lambo for that
It's his fault he bought in a load of kids when it was clear some experience was needed even on loan
I'm still not convinced he had the latitude on fees and wages to bring them in.
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How can it be his fault when he doesn't have the backing? He's been given transfer budget but no wage budget, its all well and good paying a fee if he cant pay a player.
Today the referee was fucking abysmal and Benteke should have had 3, I wouldn't blame Lambo for that
Managers with lesser budgets and players are doing better than him. We all know resources are thread bare, but the lack of organisation is a coaching failure, the abysmal goal difference position demonstrates tactical failure, and the body language of players and staff indicates motivational failure.
The combination of an abysmal absent owner and incompetent, out of depth manager is a perfect storm I'm afraid. Relegation seems inevitable.
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We need to get a reaction and change something otherwise we are heading for the Championship, today was woeful and people are now realising that we are going to go down after I've been saying it all season.
It really doesn't mater short-term who we bring in, a reaction somehow and a change is what we need, Lambert is not going to change so I vote out.
If we keep him it is preparing for a derby with Small Heath next season.
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We need to get a reaction and change something otherwise we are heading for the Championship, today was woeful and people are now realising that we are going to go down after I've been saying it all season.
It really doesn't mater short-term who we bring in, a reaction somehow and a change is what we need, Lambert is not going to change so I vote out.
If we keep him it is preparing for a derby with Small Heath next season.
Sadly I agree, it has to be Paul with regret-you're fired!
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Gary McAllister please. He did well with us in a similar situation before. maybe he can do it again.
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All the old names will get thrown in - sourness, strachan , southgate,Walter smith etc .
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Slightly unfair to reset the poll just after we've lost to a poor team at home. Had it been reset after the Liverpool game there'd have been a very different response.
Yes, it's just the loss to Southampton at home that has led to the change in views. Absolutely. *Head banging emoticon*
I direct you to the 'Things I've read on here' thread to see the wildly-swinging views depending on the latest result. If the H&V forum was a human being it would've been daignosed with bi-polar disorder a long time ago.
If the point of a poll is to be representative I don't think resetting it when fans are probably at their lowest ebb is going to get that result.
It's the middle of January, and we're in the bottom three having conceded a ton of goals and scored hardly any, we've got the worst goal difference in the league, the worst defence and have just been thrashed by a 4th division side. It isn't wildly swinging anything, it's the realisation that Lambert is the worst manager we've had since God was a boy and that he couldn't be doing a worse job if he tried.
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How can it be his fault when he doesn't have the backing? He's been given transfer budget but no wage budget, its all well and good paying a fee if he cant pay a player.
Today the referee was fucking abysmal and Benteke should have had 3, I wouldn't blame Lambo for that
It's his fault he bought in a load of kids when it was clear some experience was needed even on loan
I'm still not convinced he had the latitude on fees and wages to bring them in.
We were happy to buy Dempsey and pay him well. Could he not have directed that to alternative, proven players?
Working with young kids and making them better is his modus operandi in the main.
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I have tried to stay with Lambert but feel it is in the clubs best interest if he was to stand down, I don't think we can recover under his leadership , we are sinking like a stone and will more than likely finish bottom as in 1987 if we don't make a change.
I do believe a new manager could turn the ship around by organizing us better defensively and using Bent fully on his return to fitness, with a couple of senior loan players to give the young players a helping hand I am convinced we would stay in the premier league, stay as we are and were sunk.
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Slightly unfair to reset the poll just after we've lost to a poor team at home. Had it been reset after the Liverpool game there'd have been a very different response.
Yes, it's just the loss to Southampton at home that has led to the change in views. Absolutely. *Head banging emoticon*
I direct you to the 'Things I've read on here' thread to see the wildly-swinging views depending on the latest result. If the H&V forum was a human being it would've been daignosed with bi-polar disorder a long time ago.
If the point of a poll is to be representative I don't think resetting it when fans are probably at their lowest ebb is going to get that result.
It's the middle of January, and we're in the bottom three having conceded a ton of goals and scored hardly any, we've got the worst goal difference in the league, the worst defence and have just been thrashed by a 4th division side. It isn't wildly swinging anything, it's the realisation that Lambert is the worst manager we've had since God was a boy and that he couldn't be doing a worse job if he tried.
And if everyone agrees with you the poll could've been reset on a Thursday and the result would've been the same. Resetting it after losing at home to Southampton is very likely to skew the result - that's all I'm saying.
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Right lets get a few things right, he had money to spend in the summer and spent it, he decided and obviously sold himself at interview to our two clueless toss pots, that get in younger hungrier and up for it youngsters and we will then be in a position to get rid of all the shite the other Scottish toss pot couldnt, that will bring the wage bill down, then when I am mid table at the end of the season I can rebuild slowly but surely, the problem being, the youngsters he bought are showing the same characteristics as their Manager, when it goes wrong lets look like a rabbit caught in the headlights, forget all we have been trained to do ( I hope) and panic.
This is his team, he has sent the bad boys away not to be thought of as footballers for Aston Villa again, the only thing keeping this bloke in some form of acceptance, is we do not trust the wankers running the club to appoint anyone better, that is the shameful place we find are selves in, bloody depressing.
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How can it be his fault when he doesn't have the backing? He's been given transfer budget but no wage budget, its all well and good paying a fee if he cant pay a player.
Today the referee was fucking abysmal and Benteke should have had 3, I wouldn't blame Lambo for that
It's his fault he bought in a load of kids when it was clear some experience was needed even on loan
I'm still not convinced he had the latitude on fees and wages to bring them in.
We were happy to buy Dempsey and pay him well. Could he not have directed that to alternative, proven players?
Working with young kids and making them better is his modus operandi in the main.
Not sure with Dempsey. We had an offer accepted, but I don't think he even talked to us seriously, so perhaps our initial chat with his agent revealed that we were miles away from what Spurs ended up paying him.
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How can it be his fault when he doesn't have the backing? He's been given transfer budget but no wage budget, its all well and good paying a fee if he cant pay a player.
Today the referee was fucking abysmal and Benteke should have had 3, I wouldn't blame Lambo for that
It's his fault he bought in a load of kids when it was clear some experience was needed even on loan
I'm still not convinced he had the latitude on fees and wages to bring them in.
I'm not asking for superstars.A couple of experienced players fromeven the championship would have done rather than fishing around in the third division
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If you kept the current conditions to manage AVFC, then who would come in and manage to save us from relegation.
1.There seems a reluctance to spend money on new players, emanating i presume from the top, that suggests that if any players do come in then their immediate impact will be negligible.
2.There is an over-reliance on youth, but the senior players at the club, and high earners, do not , through either unprofessionalism, or old age, offer much improvement.
3.Lambert's signings actually look our best players.The old guard look certainly over paid, and limited ability.
4.If we have no money, then what manager would come who would be an improvement on PL.
5.The cost cutting exercise has been too quick and too severe.We need players now, and if that means paying too much in either fees or wages, then so be it.The cost of going down would be far greater.
Today they tried, but the fact is we are not good enough atm, and we desperately need at least 2/3 new players.If PL said we don't then i would agree with replacing , but he recognises that we need recruitment, and so deserves our support.
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I said to my Dad on the way out - he's been here 6 months , they are now his players - and we have gone backwards - massively.
Its complete rubbish - worse than TSM.
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The man looks utterly lost, downcast and clueless.
Given what's happened over the last month, procrastination in the transfer market is not exactly a good idea.
It' Lamberts team, tactics and plan and it's not working.
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Gary McAllister please. He did well with us in a similar situation before. maybe he can do it again.
PLEASE tell me that I'm being thick and missing out on some sarcasm
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If you kept the current conditions to manage AVFC, then who would come in and manage to save us from relegation.
1.There seems a reluctance to spend money on new players, emanating i presume from the top, that suggests that if any players do come in then their immediate impact will be negligible.
2.There is an over-reliance on youth, but the senior players at the club, and high earners, do not , through either unprofessionalism, or old age, offer much improvement.
3.Lambert's signings actually look our best players.The old guard look certainly over paid, and limited ability.
4.If we have no money, then what manager would come who would be an improvement on PL.
5.The cost cutting exercise has been too quick and too severe.We need players now, and if that means paying too much in either fees or wages, then so be it.The cost of going down would be far greater.
Today they tried, but the fact is we are not good enough atm, and we desperately need at least 2/3 new players.If PL said we don't then i would agree with replacing , but he recognises that we need recruitment, and so deserves our support.
If you were having thoughts about changing your manager , would you give him money ?
We know randy has money - just because he won't give it to lambert doesn't mean he wont give it to a new manager.
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Way i see it a load of the kids are probably ruined now. Everyone knows you have to take them out the firing line quite regularly and not just when they're playing badly. Any sort of gradual growth and development of them seems to have been thrown out the window on the back of cost cutting and some pie in the sky Ajax of the midlands fantasy. Thats not Lambert's fault entirely but he hasn't helped with his purchasing of players.
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Gary McAllister please. He did well with us in a similar situation before. maybe he can do it again.
PLEASE tell me that I'm being thick and what i am missing out on
Class A drugs I guess
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If you kept the current conditions to manage AVFC, then who would come in and manage to save us from relegation.
1.There seems a reluctance to spend money on new players, emanating i presume from the top, that suggests that if any players do come in then their immediate impact will be negligible.
2.There is an over-reliance on youth, but the senior players at the club, and high earners, do not , through either unprofessionalism, or old age, offer much improvement.
3.Lambert's signings actually look our best players.The old guard look certainly over paid, and limited ability.
4.If we have no money, then what manager would come who would be an improvement on PL.
5.The cost cutting exercise has been too quick and too severe.We need players now, and if that means paying too much in either fees or wages, then so be it.The cost of going down would be far greater.
Today they tried, but the fact is we are not good enough atm, and we desperately need at least 2/3 new players.If PL said we don't then i would agree with replacing , but he recognises that we need recruitment, and so deserves our support.
If you were having thoughts about changing your manager , would you give him money ?
We know randy has money - just because he won't give it to lambert doesn't mean he wont give it to a new manager.
Money needs spending now. Before the Albion game. The whole thing is going tits up. People are calling for players to be recalled that they previously wanted out of the club. It is panic stations down there. Everybody you speak to, including the staff, think we are going down.
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Left Foot , thats the problem the players he signed were looking better, but then come along Christmas 2012 and now they look like kids out of their depth, scared to pass as they were earlier in the season, Norwich in the cup a perfect example, so a team that was brought together to play a pass and press game, now seem to be asked to play hoof ball and when it does not work no one seems to understand why, well that is no one on the coaching staff that is, because it is happening week after week.
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Gary McAllister please. He did well with us in a similar situation before. maybe he can do it again.
PLEASE tell me that I'm being thick and missing out on some sarcasm
No, why would I? His results were good. He knows the setup here and could hit the ground running. Offer him a deal if he keeps us up like last time he gets a perm deal.
Whats wrong with him and who the hell else are we going to get?
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If you kept the current conditions to manage AVFC, then who would come in and manage to save us from relegation.
1.There seems a reluctance to spend money on new players, emanating i presume from the top, that suggests that if any players do come in then their immediate impact will be negligible.
2.There is an over-reliance on youth, but the senior players at the club, and high earners, do not , through either unprofessionalism, or old age, offer much improvement.
3.Lambert's signings actually look our best players.The old guard look certainly over paid, and limited ability.
4.If we have no money, then what manager would come who would be an improvement on PL.
5.The cost cutting exercise has been too quick and too severe.We need players now, and if that means paying too much in either fees or wages, then so be it.The cost of going down would be far greater.
Today they tried, but the fact is we are not good enough atm, and we desperately need at least 2/3 new players.If PL said we don't then i would agree with replacing , but he recognises that we need recruitment, and so deserves our support.
If you were having thoughts about changing your manager , would you give him money ?
We know randy has money - just because he won't give it to lambert doesn't mean he wont give it to a new manager.
Money needs spending now. Before the Albion game. The whole thing is going tits up. People are calling for players to be recalled that they previously wanted out of the club. It is panic stations down there. Everybody you speak to, including the staff, think we are going down.
Would you trust Lambert to buy what we need though ?
My guess is we would get a few more Bennetts and Lowton's.
This man is very stubborn and won't change and a change is what's needd, something to get us going again and gain some impetus, as we are the worst team in the division now.
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Have to say though Oscar, overall PLs players are our better players, if a bit vulnerable/fragile because of their age.Benteke, Westwood, look very good players to me, Lowton and Bennett will get better, thought Lowton played well 2nd half today.The problems are N'zog, Gabby, Ireland etc.
I'm afraid N'Zog tries hard, as he did today, but does'nt have is, Gabby is a waste of time, as is Ireland.Bowery came on today and caused more problems than Gabby and N'zog.PL is not the problem, the problem is RL has cut the spending too quick, and by too much.We need to spend some money now, and then reduce the wages by letting Dunne/Given/Ireland/Bent/Gabby etc go.PL has proven that he can see a player, he needs to be able to take a step up in his purchases.
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No sane manager with ambition will come to us. Di Matteo is pie in the sky and IMO not good enough anyway
Who (be realistic) will be joining us then?
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I don't think he's bought badly so much as his tactics, formation, and team selections have been dubious to say the least - his transfers have in the main been ok , but the time has come now to go.
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No sane manager with ambition will come to us. Di Matteo is pie in the sky and IMO not good enough anyway
Who (be realistic) will be joining us then?
Pie in the sky why? I personally think it will be di matteo and quickly.
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Any other club in any other of the division including the conference would have sacked their manager following these sequence of results it's not just the losses but the nature of them.Losing to Bradford was a sackable offence on it's own.We are an ambitionless that is only going in one direction
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Unfortunately his stubborness will get us relegated, if he will not change then he has to go, I really don't know what other options we have got anymore.
Although having said that with the muppets in charge I don't really trust them to be able to appoint a manager to get us out this mess!
On second thoughts, I think we are f**ked!
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He's tried something, nothing wrong with that. It's not working and he is burying his head in the sand and refusing to do anything about the state we are in. Everything wrong with that.
This team doesn't need millions to stay up, just a few experienced players to help out.
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No sane manager with ambition will come to us. Di Matteo is pie in the sky and IMO not good enough anyway
Who (be realistic) will be joining us then?
Pie in the sky why? I personally think it will be di matteo and quickly.
Because somebody on Twitter said so. ::)
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He's tried something, nothing wrong with that. It's not working and he is burying his head in the sand and refusing to do anything about the state we are in. Everything wrong with that.
This team doesn't need millions to stay up, just a few experienced players to help out.
I agree, a couple of very decent players and i mean decent, players with experience not potential and we could survive. We need a top signing to rally around in the same way that Bent changed that season. If not forget it.
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We've been let down by the players Lambert inherited and injuries.
It's pretty simple, if we spend some money and get the right people we will stay up, don't spend and we are relegated.
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No sane manager with ambition will come to us. Di Matteo is pie in the sky and IMO not good enough anyway
Who (be realistic) will be joining us then?
Pie in the sky why? I personally think it will be di matteo and quickly.
Because somebody on Twitter said so. ::)
Whatever the reason doesn't matter but I know it's where my money is going, even though he is ridiculously short priced clear favourite..
Who are you going to go for mr sandman?
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No sane manager with ambition will come to us. Di Matteo is pie in the sky and IMO not good enough anyway
Who (be realistic) will be joining us then?
Pie in the sky why? I personally think it will be di matteo and quickly.
Because he's off the back of a Champions League team?
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So we are going to employ a manager who went on a massive losing run at WBA and wouldn't change the way he played?
I'll put money on Di Matteo never managing Villa.
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No sane manager with ambition will come to us. Di Matteo is pie in the sky and IMO not good enough anyway
Who (be realistic) will be joining us then?
Pie in the sky why? I personally think it will be di matteo and quickly.
Because somebody on Twitter said so. ::)
Whatever the reason doesn't matter but I know it's where my money is going, even though he is ridiculously short priced clear favourite..
Who are you going to go for mr sandman?
hey I will take the bet, how much ?
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In - because no-one has suggested any kind of credible alternative. The kids are knacked and their confidence is shot - as for luck Paul Lambert must have a back garden full of smashed mirrors and dead black cats. But I think the wind will change and we'll survive.
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So we are going to employ a manager who went on a massive losing run at WBA and wouldn't change the way he played?
I'll put money on Di Matteo never managing Villa.
The same man Chelsea employed who won the fa cup and champions league and who Chelsea fans sing constantly about.
The same man who took west brom back up and was sacked when clear of the relegation zone .
The same man who was a hero at mk dons as manager .
Not perfect by a long way but not shit either.
He is not who I would choose either , but I think it will be him- either way don't worry if it isn't him you won't be the one losing money , I will.
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I said to my Dad on the way out - he's been here 6 months , they are now his players - and we have gone backwards - massively.
Its complete rubbish - worse than TSM.
I'd agree but what did Fin Feds Dad's Dad think?
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No sane manager with ambition will come to us. Di Matteo is pie in the sky and IMO not good enough anyway
Who (be realistic) will be joining us then?
Pie in the sky why? I personally think it will be di matteo and quickly.
Because somebody on Twitter said so. ::)
Whatever the reason doesn't matter but I know it's where my money is going, even though he is ridiculously short priced clear favourite..
Who are you going to go for mr sandman?
hey I will take the bet, how much ?
My money's on at the bookies !
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He's tried something, nothing wrong with that. It's not working and he is burying his head in the sand and refusing to do anything about the state we are in. Everything wrong with that.
This team doesn't need millions to stay up, just a few experienced players to help out.
And that is the thing.
We need:
LB - and, really, maybe even Warnock would do here if Lambert will swallow his pride
CB - even if Vlaar plays next week, I'm scared he'll go again, I'd like more experience here.
M - a bit of muscle and energy in the middle
With clever scouting and imaginative thinking, I reckon we could find all of those for 10m, and the effect on this team would be enormous.
At times, we can play decent football. We even saw some of it today, we put the odd decent passing move together. Nowhere near as often as we need to, but I can not believe anyone who understands the club, and has a role to play in its future can not see what we need, and how much some experience would help us, and is prepared to sit on their arse and do nothing while we career downwards.
It doesn't really require much. If Lerner isn't prepared to play his part in this and thinks we just need to stay calm and go with what we have, then he's an even bigger idiot than I thought he was.
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So we are going to employ a manager who went on a massive losing run at WBA and wouldn't change the way he played?
I'll put money on Di Matteo never managing Villa.
The same man Chelsea employed who won the fa cup and champions league and who Chelsea fans sing constantly about.
The same man who took west brom back up and was sacked when clear of the relegation zone .
The same man who was a hero at mk dons as manager .
Not perfect by a long way but not shit either.
He is not who I would choose either , but I think it will be him- either way don't worry if it isn't him you won't be the one losing money , I will.
Yes, the same man whose side, when he got sacked by Albion, was leaking almost 2 goals a game, just like we have recently.
The major blockage to us improving is not the manager. It is money.
That doesn't mean Lambert is without blame, it's just the plain truth that there isn't a manager out there who would improve this side of anxious kids sufficiently to get us out of the shit.
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No sane manager with ambition will come to us. Di Matteo is pie in the sky and IMO not good enough anyway
Who (be realistic) will be joining us then?
Pie in the sky why? I personally think it will be di matteo and quickly.
Because somebody on Twitter said so. ::)
Whatever the reason doesn't matter but I know it's where my money is going, even though he is ridiculously short priced clear favourite..
Who are you going to go for mr sandman?
hey I will take the bet, how much ?
My money's on at the bookies !
oh yeh right Sky Sports Bet
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The way I see it is pretty black and white.
The rot has well and truly already set. Stick with what we have and we are a dead cert for relegation, and also a pretty good bet to either not get to the League Cup final, or to be humiliated in it.
Or... Make a change immediately and at least give ourselves a fighting chance- if we go down then at least we tried to stop the rot.
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No sane manager with ambition will come to us. Di Matteo is pie in the sky and IMO not good enough anyway
Who (be realistic) will be joining us then?
Pie in the sky why? I personally think it will be di matteo and quickly.
Because somebody on Twitter said so. ::)
Whatever the reason doesn't matter but I know it's where my money is going, even though he is ridiculously short priced clear favourite..
Who are you going to go for mr sandman?
hey I will take the bet, how much ?
My money's on at the bookies !
oh yeh right Sky Sports Bet
Personally I wouldn't be going for di matteo if i was randy but I think it's a one horse race and no not sky sports bet.
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we made southamton look like brazil
i know they wore the same strip
but pl is not the problem
give him the tools
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I've said it before, sack him and then what? Get RDM?Will he be backed? No,so what's point?
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we made southamton look like brazil
i know they wore the same strip
but pl is not the problem
give him the tools
How is he not the problem?
He picks the team and the tactics, he has been a poor manager for us
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I've said it before, sack him and then what? Get RDM?Will he be backed? No,so what's point?
Maybe RDM and his staff might, for example, have a clue how to coach and organise the current players and make us harder to score against. Lambert certainly doesn't.
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We didn't sack McLeish last season, why would Lambert be sacked now?
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Lambert is not the problem.
He is doing the best he can with what he has got.
Injuries, bad luck and poor refs don't help.
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I've said it before, sack him and then what? Get RDM?Will he be backed? No,so what's point?
Maybe RDM and his staff might, for example, have a clue how to coach and organise the current players and make us harder to score against. Lambert certainly doesn't.
If randy wont give lambert money because he may have lost faith it doesn't mean he wouldn't give a new manager money .
If you were thinking of sacking someone would you give them money a week earlier?
Any new manager I believe would have some money to spend.
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We didn't sack McLeish last season, why would Lambert be sacked now?
Because we were 8 points better off under Mcleish this time last season and clear of the relegation zone
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I've said it before, sack him and then what? Get RDM?Will he be backed? No,so what's point?
Maybe RDM and his staff might, for example, have a clue how to coach and organise the current players and make us harder to score against. Lambert certainly doesn't.
Or more likely he'd allow the players to work these things out for themselves as it is alleged he did at Chelsea. That will work well with us won't it? ::)
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We didn't sack McLeish last season, why would Lambert be sacked now?
We are 8 points worse off than at this stage last season.
We are in the relegation zone.
We have scored the least goals.
We have conceded the most goals
We have the worst goal difference.
We have had the worst defeat in our history.
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I've said it before, sack him and then what? Get RDM?Will he be backed? No,so what's point?
Maybe RDM and his staff might, for example, have a clue how to coach and organise the current players and make us harder to score against. Lambert certainly doesn't.
Or more likely he'd allow the players to work these things out for themselves as it is alleged he did at Chelsea. That will work well with us won't it? ::)
Well if that's true and seeing the results they had John terry it is then.
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Lambert is not the problem.
He is doing the best he can with what he has got.
Injuries, bad luck and poor refs don't help.
Regardless of the lack of backing, he should be doing much better and the team should at least be organised and hard to break down.
In fact, and I can't believe I am writing this, he should be doing exactly what TSM did, make us hard to bet and grind out points. PL must have had more cash than TSM who lets not forget inherited a team which had lost our two best players.
The fact that we are 8 points worse off than last season says it all. In fact I cannot believe the easy ride he is getting. Staggering in the face of the evidence and treatment of TSM.
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I posted this in the post-match thread but it is probably more appropiate on this one: I actually think the worst thing about the Chelsea, Spurs and Wigan games was that it showed the 3-5-2 formation had failed. I genuinely think Lambert thought he was on to something with it and the 6 game unbeaten run probably backed up that belief. After the car-crash of those 3 games he has clearly lost self-belief in his ability and it shows from his demeanour recently. He has tried everything and it has failed. The narrow 4-4-2 failed. The 4-2-3-1 has failed. Then the 3-5-2 failed. Now we are back to the 4-4-2 which has failed. Although as I have said, tactics are pretty unimportant when the players look mentally weak, nervous and not up for it. As much as I didn't want PL to be the same as MON, I did think he would have MON's man-management and motivational skills. Clearly not. He is just inept on pretty much every level and I will go on record as saying he is inferior to McLeish.
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Well if that's true and seeing the results they had John terry it is then.
Get him, Cashley and Lampard in as joint player-managers. Sort out the management team, midfield and defence at a stroke.
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Lambert is not the problem.
He is doing the best he can with what he has got.
Injuries, bad luck and poor refs don't help.
It's no coincidence that since O'Neill quit we've sunk lower and lower down the table every year, to the point where we're now in very serious danger of relegation. I admire your spirit but you can't put all that down to injuries, bad luck and poor refs. The malaise at the club is much deeper rooted and far more serious than that.
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Well if that's true and seeing the results they had John terry it is then.
Get him, Cashley and Lampard in as joint player-managers. Sort out the management team, midfield and defence at a stroke.
Don't forget didier on a free as well!
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We didn't sack McLeish last season, why would Lambert be sacked now?
We are 8 points worse off than at this stage last season.
We are in the relegation zone.
We have scored the least goals.
We have conceded the most goals
We have the worst goal difference.
We have had the worst defeat in our history.
Losing to a 4th Division Club
Worst loss in 138 years vs Chelsea
I don't want him sacked, but could understand why he would be.
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He's tried something, nothing wrong with that. It's not working and he is burying his head in the sand and refusing to do anything about the state we are in. Everything wrong with that.
This team doesn't need millions to stay up, just a few experienced players to help out.
And that is the thing.
We need:
LB - and, really, maybe even Warnock would do here if Lambert will swallow his pride
CB - even if Vlaar plays next week, I'm scared he'll go again, I'd like more experience here.
M - a bit of muscle and energy in the middle
With clever scouting and imaginative thinking, I reckon we could find all of those for 10m, and the effect on this team would be enormous.
At times, we can play decent football. We even saw some of it today, we put the odd decent passing move together. Nowhere near as often as we need to, but I can not believe anyone who understands the club, and has a role to play in its future can not see what we need, and how much some experience would help us, and is prepared to sit on their arse and do nothing while we career downwards.
It doesn't really require much. If Lerner isn't prepared to play his part in this and thinks we just need to stay calm and go with what we have, then he's an even bigger idiot than I thought he was.
Bollox. You couldn't even do that on Championship Manager; complete fantasy.
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I said to my Dad on the way out - he's been here 6 months , they are now his players - and we have gone backwards - massively.
Its complete rubbish - worse than TSM.
I'd agree but what did Fin Feds Dad's Dad think?
He agreed too Tim !!
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If we sacked Lambert thats 3 different managers gone in last two seasons we will end up like Blackburn.
I'm not happy obviously but you don't change a club that has flirted with relegation two seasons in a row in half a season.
Lerners business plan or lack of one is the problem.
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It is stupid to be thinking about sacking the manager at this time of year - just as it was this time last year.
The only difference is last season TSM kept us up - but we all knew the football he had them playing was not good enough for AVFC and he had to go.
This year we need (and RL needs) to back Lambert and hope we stay up. If we stay up we will at least have a young team with a future who will have learnt from the experience. That will be something we can build on.
Now is the time to stand behind the manager and the players - hopefully we can find a couple of reinforcements this month - but if we can't we will get a few back from injury. I'm still happier now than I was 12 months ago. Even if it looks harder to avoid the drop, I still have hope that we will prevail - I know many on here will think I'm nuts - but if we can get something from our next 2 league games (and I think we can) then who knows!
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If we sacked Lambert thats 3 different managers gone in last two seasons we will end up like Blackburn.
I'm not happy obviously but you don't change a club that has flirted with relegation two seasons in a row in half a season.
Lerners business plan or lack of one is the problem.
But he is changing it. We aren't flirting with relegation anymore, we are near certs now.
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If we sacked Lambert thats 3 different managers gone in last two seasons we will end up like Blackburn.
I'm not happy obviously but you don't change a club that has flirted with relegation two seasons in a row in half a season.
Lerners business plan or lack of one is the problem.
But he is changing it. We aren't flirting with relegation anymore, we are near certs now.
Theres 15 games left and we're in the relegation zone on goal difference, near certs? stop being a fucking drama queen!
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If we sacked Lambert thats 3 different managers gone in last two seasons we will end up like Blackburn.
I'm not happy obviously but you don't change a club that has flirted with relegation two seasons in a row in half a season.
Lerners business plan or lack of one is the problem.
Lerner is the problem overall but if he's not going to back lambert with money then he should Sack him- back or sack!
We will not stay in this division without new signings and transfer money, and it seems Lerner is not giving lambert it.
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The problem is not Lambert. I only wish it was because we could have a go at fixing that for the remaining games.
The problem is Lerner. That cannot be fixed in the short term.
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If we sacked Lambert thats 3 different managers gone in last two seasons we will end up like Blackburn.
I'm not happy obviously but you don't change a club that has flirted with relegation two seasons in a row in half a season.
Lerners business plan or lack of one is the problem.
But he is changing it. We aren't flirting with relegation anymore, we are near certs now.
Theres 15 games left and we're in the relegation zone on goal difference, near certs? stop being a fucking drama queen!
We are not certs but we have to be odds on.
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It is stupid to be thinking about sacking the manager at this time of year - just as it was this time last year.
The only difference is last season TSM kept us up - but we all knew the football he had them playing was not good enough for AVFC and he had to go.
This year we need (and RL needs) to back Lambert and hope we stay up. If we stay up we will at least have a young team with a future who will have learnt from the experience. That will be something we can build on.
Now is the time to stand behind the manager and the players - hopefully we can find a couple of reinforcements this month - but if we can't we will get a few back from injury. I'm still happier now than I was 12 months ago. Even if it looks harder to avoid the drop, I still have hope that we will prevail - I know many on here will think I'm nuts - but if we can get something from our next 2 league games (and I think we can) then who knows!
Tsm just kept us up on 38 points - we are already 8 points worse off than this stage last season and in a run of 5 defeats and a draw from our last 6 games- far worse than last season , goal difference appalling too.
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If we sacked Lambert thats 3 different managers gone in last two seasons we will end up like Blackburn.
I'm not happy obviously but you don't change a club that has flirted with relegation two seasons in a row in half a season.
Lerners business plan or lack of one is the problem.
Lerner is the problem overall but if he's not going to back lambert with money then he should Sack him- back or sack!
We will not stay in this division without new signings and transfer money, and it seems Lerner is not giving lambert it.
He's talked about lacking strength in the middle of the park so i firmly believe we'll see a big strapping defensive midfielder before the month end.
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Lambert is not the problem.
He is doing the best he can with what he has got.
Injuries, bad luck and poor refs don't help.
It's no coincidence that since O'Neill quit we've sunk lower and lower down the table every year, to the point where we're now in very serious danger of relegation. I admire your spirit but you can't put all that down to injuries, bad luck and poor refs. The malaise at the club is much deeper rooted and far more serious than that.
Crikey.
I just started a new thread with a ramble about precisely that point. We're kidding ourselves if we don't think our problems are anything but deep seated.
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If we sacked Lambert thats 3 different managers gone in last two seasons we will end up like Blackburn.
I'm not happy obviously but you don't change a club that has flirted with relegation two seasons in a row in half a season.
Lerners business plan or lack of one is the problem.
But he is changing it. We aren't flirting with relegation anymore, we are near certs now.
Theres 15 games left and we're in the relegation zone on goal difference, near certs? stop being a fucking drama queen!
We are not certs but we have to be odds on.
Were evens so the bookies think a 50/50 chance!
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If we sacked Lambert thats 3 different managers gone in last two seasons we will end up like Blackburn.
I'm not happy obviously but you don't change a club that has flirted with relegation two seasons in a row in half a season.
Lerners business plan or lack of one is the problem.
But he is changing it. We aren't flirting with relegation anymore, we are near certs now.
Theres 15 games left and we're in the relegation zone on goal difference, near certs? stop being a fucking drama queen!
And the direction we are heading in? And how are QPR, Saints, Wigan and Reading doing?
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My first choice in the summer was Roberto Martinez.
He's kept Wigan up for three years now on a very limited budget and tactically they're flexible and better mentally prepared then a lot of teams down there.
In fairness once he wasn't going to come, my second choice was Lambert.
Aswell as the dodgy defence at Norwich, my other concern was that he'd only had one year at the premier league. We've seen plenty of flash in the pan managers who've had one great year at the club and then it starts to go shite in the second season, happened to Pardew twice and where are the likes of Phil Brown, Paul Jewell, Owen Coyle now.
I'd have been interested to have seen how Norwich would've done if Lambert had remained for another season, would be lower than what Hughton has got them up to I'd say.
Lambert gets sacked here and he'd have to start again in the championship or maybe at Celtic. He could still make an excellent manager but after a dodgy 1st half of the season I was backing him until the nightmare Xmas/New year run which imo has fcuked the minds of the young players which given is most of our team is not a good thing at all and we are relegation bound.
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If we sacked Lambert thats 3 different managers gone in last two seasons we will end up like Blackburn.
I'm not happy obviously but you don't change a club that has flirted with relegation two seasons in a row in half a season.
Lerners business plan or lack of one is the problem.
But he is changing it. We aren't flirting with relegation anymore, we are near certs now.
Theres 15 games left and we're in the relegation zone on goal difference, near certs? stop being a fucking drama queen!
And the direction we are heading in? And how are QPR, Saints, Wigan and Reading doing?
We beat Norwich and Liverpool in the space of a couple of days so we do have a good enough team and then in 8 days got slaughtered by Chelsea, my point is form can change and we have the ability to beat teams therefore we're not dead certs!
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Well much as the debate is good and we are all here because we are hurting and care I am off out for a few drinks to take away the pain of another depressing weekend - enjoyed reading both sides of the argument , lets hope somehow things work out for us in the end.
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Well that's a shit result.
We have to stick with Lambert. We simply need to go through this pain in order to come out the other end. If we don't we're truly screwed for many years.
It's certainly looking more like we'll go down but I still think we should stick with Lambert.
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Well that's a shit result.
We have to stick with Lambert. We simply need to go through this pain in order to come out the other end. If we don't we're truly screwed for many years.
It's certainly looking more like we'll go down but I still think we should stick with Lambert.
This.
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i think most of the players out there today are ok, they would be fine if they didnt happen to all be in the same team.
You could get way with playing 2 of the back 4 but not all of them, the same goes for midfield.
the problem is that collectively they are not good enough.
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I see Bristol City have just sacked their manager.I presume it's because they have had a series of shit results and would like a shot at survival ? That's what most normal clubs do
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Well that's a shit result.
We have to stick with Lambert. We simply need to go through this pain in order to come out the other end. If we don't we're truly screwed for many years.
It's certainly looking more like we'll go down but I still think we should stick with Lambert.
This.
I agree, too.
He has put together a sequence of results that should get any manager in the league sacked, but he's still the best option for us.
That madness isn't his fault, it is a reflection of where we are as a club.
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I see Bristol City have just sacked their manager.I presume it's because they have had a series of shit results and would like a shot at survival ? That's what most normal clubs do
McInnes was quite highly regarded when he went there aswell.
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Well that's a shit result.
We have to stick with Lambert. We simply need to go through this pain in order to come out the other end. If we don't we're truly screwed for many years.
It's certainly looking more like we'll go down but I still think we should stick with Lambert.
This.
I agree, too.
He has put together a sequence of results that should get any manager in the league sacked, but he's still the best option for us.
That madness isn't his fault, it is a reflection of where we are as a club.
Sorry I can't agree. Lambert is very much part of the problem. If sticking with him means following him down to the Championship then that is blind loyalty that I can't subscribe to.
I know that the timing is not great vis a vis the transfer window and I haven't got any ready suggestions for who should be appointed but I'm convinced that if we stay with him, then our demise is inevitable.
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Well that's a shit result.
We have to stick with Lambert. We simply need to go through this pain in order to come out the other end. If we don't we're truly screwed for many years.
It's certainly looking more like we'll go down but I still think we should stick with Lambert.
This.
I agree, too.
He has put together a sequence of results that should get any manager in the league sacked, but he's still the best option for us.
That madness isn't his fault, it is a reflection of where we are as a club.
I agree too. Its the utterly paralysis and monumentally silly decisions that have dealt Lambert a shitty hand. Once we are down, he needs to be given the tools to sort this mess out and Faulkner and Lerner need to take a very serious look at the how they've got us to this position.
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Well that's a shit result.
We have to stick with Lambert. We simply need to go through this pain in order to come out the other end. If we don't we're truly screwed for many years.
It's certainly looking more like we'll go down but I still think we should stick with Lambert.
This.
I agree, too.
He has put together a sequence of results that should get any manager in the league sacked, but he's still the best option for us.
That madness isn't his fault, it is a reflection of where we are as a club.
Me too, but it fucking hurts at the moment.
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I see Bristol City have just sacked their manager.I presume it's because they have had a series of shit results and would like a shot at survival ? That's what most normal clubs do
McInnes was quite highly regarded when he went there aswell.
He saved them from relegation from an even worse position the previous season AFAIK.
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It's time for him to go i'm afraid, regardless of our poor playing staff, if this is the best you can come up with after a week on the training pitch, then it's good night.
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Well that's a shit result.
We have to stick with Lambert. We simply need to go through this pain in order to come out the other end. If we don't we're truly screwed for many years.
It's certainly looking more like we'll go down but I still think we should stick with Lambert.
This.
I agree, too.
He has put together a sequence of results that should get any manager in the league sacked, but he's still the best option for us.
That madness isn't his fault, it is a reflection of where we are as a club.
I'm really struggling to see how he is the best option for us ? No other team in all the leagues would tolerate these results including the conference.It's embarrassing
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I honestly think that were we to replace him right now, it may or may not keep us up, but it would simply be delaying the inevitable.
The club is so badly run right now that the force of gravity simply can't be avoided.
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Frightening stats in comparison with last season-
Just 19 points from 22 games. That's 0.86 points a game, that's under 33 points after 38 games, that's..... well, you all know what that is
@MatKendrick: At this stage of last season, Villa were 11th in the table, eight points better off on 27 and with goal difference of minus-3, not minus-25
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Just 19 points from 22 games. That's 0.86 points a game, that's under 33 points after 38 games, that's..... well, you all know what that is
we can all quote kendrick on twitter
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I liked the idea of Lambert a lot, but it hasnt worked out.
We still cannot convert a corner or defend one, we still are incapable of maintaining possession because for the 4th transfer window in a row we have not brought in a midfield.
His admirable transfer policy has proven fairly ineffective even given large funds.
His willfull freezing out of our more experienced players has backfired badly. yeah we all cheered when Hutton & Warnock got pushed out and Bent got a "kick up the backside" but it was foolish to burn those bridges. They could have been rotated with much more tact.
In short either he has caught the Aston Villa "crap curse" from us or he was not the right bloke anyway, but either way I dont see how he can come back from this. We need a steady hand to grind out some results. I didnt think it could get any worse from last season but it has. Depressing.
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Who do we suggest can come in and have to put up with having little money to spend?
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Who do we suggest can come in and have to put up with having little money to spend?
My answer is Gary Mcallister. Not because he is a world beater but because he knows the club and did well enough last time. Also he would work with no funds. Bait him with the chance of a full time contract if he keeps us up.
Cowans maybe a second choice. I dont think someone new to the club is going to be able to help fast enough to be honest.
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Wasnt McAllister more unpopular than Benitez? As for Cowans, that is a fantasy choice surely?
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How can it be his fault when he doesn't have the backing? He's been given transfer budget but no wage budget, its all well and good paying a fee if he cant pay a player.
Today the referee was fucking abysmal and Benteke should have had 3, I wouldn't blame Lambo for that
Managers with lesser budgets and players are doing better than him. We all know resources are thread bare, but the lack of organisation is a coaching failure, the abysmal goal difference position demonstrates tactical failure, and the body language of players and staff indicates motivational failure.
The combination of an abysmal absent owner and incompetent, out of depth manager is a perfect storm I'm afraid. Relegation seems inevitable.
Have to agree with this. Yes we don't have huge resources but we still spent 20 odd million in the summer which is plenty more than lots of other teams.
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Doesn't matter who the manager is (although I understand fans calling for his head), the problem is Lerner and his asset stripping. He's sold the best players at the club and replaced them with lower league garbage, and will continue with his ridiculous plan to have everyone at the club on YTS wages. No manager could come in and work with a system like that and get results. He sold us a lie.
The club is going down and the fault lies entirely at Lerner's feet
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Wasnt McAllister more unpopular than Benitez? As for Cowans, that is a fantasy choice surely?
Absolutely. he was despised by the fans and the players who he drilled more than they wanted on things like set peices. Thing is he was a small bright spot of competency over the past two years.
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Doesn't matter who the manager is (although I understand fans calling for his head), the problem is Lerner and his asset stripping. He's sold the best players at the club and replaced them with lower league garbage, and will continue with his ridiculous plan to have everyone at the club on YTS wages. No manager could come in and work with a system like that and get results. He sold us a lie.
The club is going down and the fault lies entirely at Lerner's feet
Overall yes Lerner is the blame but even if he goes it will be a long process, to stay up we need him to either back lambert with money or sack him and back a new manager with money.
It appears from lamberts comments the money is not there for him which is understandable if Lerner is having doubts about him as manager.
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Wasnt McAllister more unpopular than Benitez? As for Cowans, that is a fantasy choice surely?
Absolutely. he was despised by the fans and the players who he drilled more than they wanted on things like set peices. Thing is he was a small bright spot of competency over the past two years.
That is a matter of opinion, we may have finished 9th, but were deep in the brown stuff till next to the last game
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Lambert is not the problem.
He is doing the best he can with what he has got.
Injuries, bad luck and poor refs don't help.
OK, yet McLeish WAS the problem?
Difference? And please don't say "we're playing better football".
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How can it be his fault when he doesn't have the backing? He's been given transfer budget but no wage budget, its all well and good paying a fee if he cant pay a player.
Today the referee was fucking abysmal and Benteke should have had 3, I wouldn't blame Lambo for that
Managers with lesser budgets and players are doing better than him. We all know resources are thread bare, but the lack of organisation is a coaching failure, the abysmal goal difference position demonstrates tactical failure, and the body language of players and staff indicates motivational failure.
The combination of an abysmal absent owner and incompetent, out of depth manager is a perfect storm I'm afraid. Relegation seems inevitable.
Have to agree with this. Yes we don't have huge resources but we still spent 20 odd million in the summer which is plenty more than lots of other teams.
To me the main reason he should go is his clear inability to motivate players however young or inexperienced. His mumbling, repetitive post match interviews are barely intelligible so I have no faith in his ability to rouse and gee up players, particularly those for whom English is not their first language.
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The problem is not Lambert. I only wish it was because we could have a go at fixing that for the remaining games.
The problem is Lerner. That cannot be fixed in the short term.
You see, I do think we're being badly run and need more investment but there are plenty of teams out there who've spent LESS than us and yet they are doing better. The setup and organisation of the team is shambolic at present.
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Wasnt McAllister more unpopular than Benitez? As for Cowans, that is a fantasy choice surely?
Absolutely. he was despised by the fans and the players who he drilled more than they wanted on things like set peices. Thing is he was a small bright spot of competency over the past two years.
That is a matter of opinion, we may have finished 9th, but were deep in the brown stuff till next to the last game
No question. But he did turn our trajectory after Houiller got ill. Maybe he had a lucky run but for sure he made such extreme changes in training intensity that some of our players disliked him for it. I cant help but think the two things were linked.
To be honest I dont really have him as my dream manager but we need someone to steady the ship right now. With Arry the escape artist gone to QPR and halfway through a transfer window I dont know who else would be a good choice. Shrug, open to other ideas.
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Lambert is not the problem.
He is doing the best he can with what he has got.
Injuries, bad luck and poor refs don't help.
OK, yet McLeish WAS the problem?
Difference? And please don't say "we're playing better football".
Unfortunately McLeish was the problem because his CV meant that he was always going to be in the firing line, like it or not.
Lambert was a popular choice, the board know it and the fans are still largely backing him, so its doubtful he's going to go anywhere soon.
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I'm sure it's been said, but if the club can't afford players then the club can't afford to sack another manager.
The best sacking would be that of Faulkner and get someone in who can run a football club... the management team at Swansea would be the first place I'd look, then Stoke.
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Lambert is not the problem.
He is doing the best he can with what he has got.
Injuries, bad luck and poor refs don't help.
OK, yet McLeish WAS the problem?
Difference? And please don't say "we're playing better football".
Unfortunately McLeish was the problem because his CV meant that he was always going to be in the firing line, like it or not.
Lambert was a popular choice, the board know it and the fans are still largely backing him, so its doubtful he's going to go anywhere soon.
And yet the point remains.
McLeish was to blame and yet Lambert isn't?
Same owners, same working conditions.
I'm playing devil's advocate here, I certainly didn't want to keep McLeish and I certainly like the sound of Lambert's plan but to suddenly put it all at Lerner's feet because it suits us to do so is rather hypocritical, in my opinion.
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We're most probably fucked unless we back Lambert with some money. We've been saying this for weeks.
As always it's now over to Randy and the Board and has been since 1st January. This is where strong leadership must kick in one way or the other..........................
I'm not optimistic.
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Tactically naive, inept. Stubborn as MON.
Will go down in history as the manager of the team who had their record defeat.
Too few goals, too many conceded.
No hope I'm afriad. We're doomed.
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Lambert is not the problem.
He is doing the best he can with what he has got.
Injuries, bad luck and poor refs don't help.
OK, yet McLeish WAS the problem?
Difference? And please don't say "we're playing better football".
Unfortunately McLeish was the problem because his CV meant that he was always going to be in the firing line, like it or not.
Lambert was a popular choice, the board know it and the fans are still largely backing him, so its doubtful he's going to go anywhere soon.
And yet the point remains.
McLeish was to blame and yet Lambert isn't?
Same owners, same working conditions.
I'm playing devil's advocate here, I certainly didn't want to keep McLeish and I certainly like the sound of Lambert's plan but to suddenly put it all at Lerner's feet because it suits us to do so is rather hypocritical, in my opinion.
I think you have a point, Mcliesh took the job knowing that he had limited funds and blew them on Hutton and Nzog, then tried to grind out results with the most negative football ever seen at Villa, it seemed in Lambert that we had a manager with ideas and investment in youth which looked like a more sustainable approach. But we are where we are because of a series of bad decisions by lerner, so to pick on any of 5 of his appointments is probably unfair.
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I will vote to keep him as I don't trust the board to make another decision. Let him have some funds, bring some one bodies in and it might just give us a kick up the arse and confidence we need.
It was said in the match thread we are not too many players off a goodish side.
If we don't I have no idea where the confidence, spark and fight will come from to dig us out. Two or three players if right might just do it.
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I dunno why Lambert is making such a faff of this job. I play Football Manager all the time and I'm quite good at it, it's not that hard...
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How can it be his fault when he doesn't have the backing? He's been given transfer budget but no wage budget, its all well and good paying a fee if he cant pay a player.
Today the referee was fucking abysmal and Benteke should have had 3, I wouldn't blame Lambo for that
Managers with lesser budgets and players are doing better than him. We all know resources are thread bare, but the lack of organisation is a coaching failure, the abysmal goal difference position demonstrates tactical failure, and the body language of players and staff indicates motivational failure.
The combination of an abysmal absent owner and incompetent, out of depth manager is a perfect storm I'm afraid. Relegation seems inevitable.
Have to agree with this. Yes we don't have huge resources but we still spent 20 odd million in the summer which is plenty more than lots of other teams.
To me the main reason he should go is his clear inability to motivate players however young or inexperienced. His mumbling, repetitive post match interviews are barely intelligible so I have no faith in his ability to rouse and gee up players, particularly those for whom English is not their first language.
Couldn't agree more. I have always been of the view that there is a direct correlation between being a good manager and being an articulate and good communicator. If a manager cannot communicate to the fans, to the media, how can he be expected to communicate to the players. Mumblers don't make managers.
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I dunno why Lambert is making such a faff of this job. I play Football Manager all the time and I'm quite good at it, it's not that hard...
Are you sure you want to quit without saving? Y/n
Load Game - Aston Villa December 16th.
"Dat backheel"
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We need new players more than we need a new manager at this point.
The writing is on the wall for me. We are going down, unless, new blood, quality, is brought in.
We are not adrift and something can be done, but I don't think Lerner will. The man is a fool.
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He's making a mess, but it's a fucking awful under funded squad as well.
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At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious, if Lambert isn't backed financially now, we are doomed. It's that simple.
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I have got my doubts about Lambert, his body language on Tuesday was a disgrace IMO considering we have a young team in need of help. I just cannot see how we can afford to replace him and who the feck we can bring in
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Randy hasn't got the business nous. Everything he touches fails! Was handed down MBNA wasn't he?
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If we sacked Lambert thats 3 different managers gone in last two seasons we will end up like Blackburn.
I'm not happy obviously but you don't change a club that has flirted with relegation two seasons in a row in half a season.
Lerners business plan or lack of one is the problem.
But he is changing it. We aren't flirting with relegation anymore, we are near certs now.
Theres 15 games left and we're in the relegation zone on goal difference, near certs? stop being a fucking drama queen!
Here we go. Bed wetting, drama queen etc. Where will you be if we do go down?
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I've been behind Lambert as, unlike McLeish, I thought he had the right idea and a plan that made sense, if implemented properly over time. That said,, for the last 6 games or so Lambert has looked completely clueless in terms of tactics, formation, motivation, and ability to organise a defence. We've made the same mistakes over and over again and look no closer to remedying them. Many of us said from early on that selling or ostracising most of the experienced players on the books and relying on youngsters was a very risky strategy. There have been times when we've looked okay but just lately we have relegation written all over us. The defence are like rabbits in the headlights, the amount of ballwatching and headless chicken style ball chasing is almost comical. Yet we don't seem to have anyone lined up to improve matters.
But I'm not convinced it's all Lambert's fault. One wonders why sell Collins with Dunne still injured,Vlaar new to the league, and only Clark, Baker and Herd in reserve? Why loan out Makoun again with Petrov out? Why discard Hutton and Warnock when, as poor as they can be, we don't have anyone better? The obvious answer is to reduce the pressure on the wage bill. Well fantastic business sense Randy, save 10m on the wage bill and rush headlong into losing 100m+ in future TV and PL revenues. Fucking genius.
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I will vote to keep him as I don't trust the board to make another decision. Let him have some funds, bring some one bodies in and it might just give us a kick up the arse and confidence we need.
You don't trust the board (if you can call it that) to make a decision. Do you trust them to spend some money? This isn't someone's personal pension fund, it is the Villa. Not having a go at you by the way. We're all in the shit together.
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We need 3 maybe 4 options before the end of the month and will need to win 2-3 on the spin at some point. Every loss sticks more in the needs to spend column.
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The way I see it is we are going down if we continue along with same plan. In my opinion the squad not good enough. We have the fatal combination of forwards and attacking midfielders who can't score and defenders who can't ... well defend.
There are only two options.
1. Back Lambert with enough funds to make survival reasonably safe.
2. Sack Lambert and get someone else in who thinks they can make a silk purse out of sows ear.
Again in my opinion, option 2 simply isn't viable.
I wish Lambert would have the integrity to publicly say 'sack me or back me', and to actually resign if they don't back him. It's the only way to keep his reputation in tact and to clearly mark out to Lerner and the football world in general what a fuck up the club is at the moment.
The crying shame is that I know this is asking too much in modern football.
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I've been behind Lambert as, unlike McLeish, I thought he had the right idea and a plan that made sense, if implemented properly over time. That said,, for the last 6 games or so Lambert has looked completely clueless in terms of tactics, formation, motivation, and ability to organise a defence. We've made the same mistakes over and over again and look no closer to remedying them. Many of us said from early on that selling or ostracising most of the experienced players on the books and relying on youngsters was a very risky strategy. There have been times when we've looked okay but just lately we have relegation written all over us. The defence are like rabbits in the headlights, the amount of ballwatching and headless chicken style ball chasing is almost comical. Yet we don't seem to have anyone lined up to improve matters.
But I'm not convinced it's all Lambert's fault. One wonders why sell Collins with Dunne still injured,Vlaar new to the league, and only Clark, Baker and Herd in reserve? Why loan out Makoun again with Petrov out? Why discard Hutton and Warnock when, as poor as they can be, we don't have anyone better? The obvious answer is to reduce the pressure on the wage bill. Well fantastic business sense Randy, save 10m on the wage bill and rush headlong into losing 100m+ in future TV and PL revenues. Fucking genius.
Loaning Makoun out was our only real option due to his work permit issues. The rest I agree with, but we all thought they were good ideas at the start of the season. The majority of people on here were calling for Lambert, and there was a lot of 'sell the whole team and start again' towards the end of last season.
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I will vote to keep him as I don't trust the board to make another decision. Let him have some funds, bring some one bodies in and it might just give us a kick up the arse and confidence we need.
You don't trust the board (if you can call it that) to make a decision. Do you trust them to spend some money? This isn't someone's personal pension fund, it is the Villa. Not having a go at you by the way. We're all in the shit together.
I am worried they might sack Lambert and then have not an inkling of what to do next. I'm not convinced either, that enough money will be made available to bring in the players we need now.
We are all in this together, quite right and I hope something will be done soon. With each defeat the players and manager look more defeated.
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I will vote to keep him as I don't trust the board to make another decision. Let him have some funds, bring some one bodies in and it might just give us a kick up the arse and confidence we need.
You don't trust the board (if you can call it that) to make a decision. Do you trust them to spend some money? This isn't someone's personal pension fund, it is the Villa. Not having a go at you by the way. We're all in the shit together.
I am worried they might sack Lambert and then have not an inkling of what to do next. I'm not convinced either, that enough money will be made available to bring in the players we need now.
We are all in this together, quite right and I hope something will be done soon. With each defeat the players and manager look more defeated.
Sack Lambert? Not a chance,that would require making a decision.It will be head in the sand,fingers crossed andhope for the best like last season.I absolutely despise the people running our club
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His mumbling, repetitive post match interviews are barely intelligible so I have no faith in his ability to rouse and gee up players, particularly those for whom English is not their first language.
This crap keeps being trotted out, yet he's perfectly easy to understand by anyone who actually listens.
When he's interviewed, the interviewers all manage to understand what he's saying too.
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Well that's a shit result.
We have to stick with Lambert. We simply need to go through this pain in order to come out the other end. If we don't we're truly screwed for many years.
It's certainly looking more like we'll go down but I still think we should stick with Lambert.
This.
I agree, too.
He has put together a sequence of results that should get any manager in the league sacked, but he's still the best option for us.
That madness isn't his fault, it is a reflection of where we are as a club.
I'm really struggling to see how he is the best option for us ? No other team in all the leagues would tolerate these results including the conference.It's embarrassing
Yes, you're right, not many teams would put up with this, but that's missing the wider point.
The point is not whether Lambert has been poor up to now - look at the results, look at some of the records we've broken, of course it has been shit, there's not a single person on this site who would disagree with that.
But that's not the question at hand.
The question at hand is whether or not we should sack him now, not whether he deserves the sack. Sack him now, and you've got to find a new manager, and a new backroom staff. You're changing the entire football management of the club.
You've then got to do that, and get them all installed, and get them to identify their transfer targets, and get them all in within 2.5 weeks.
It isn't going to happen.
The obvious thing which would improve this side is the acquisition of two or three players in positions which we can all identify. That is the answer, not wasting more money which we do not have on paying off yet another manager, and getting a new bloke in, who'll be chosen on the basis of "fuck, we need to get someone in ASAP" rather than finding the best man to take the club forward over a period of years.
The easy, obvious thing is to say sack the manager and maybe things will get better. The clever thing is to back the manager with money for the players we need.
You could change manager in the next seven days, but the new guy would be confronted with exactly the same group of players - too young, too unbothered, and clearly not good enough for this level. That isn't going to change overnight.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
You can't think of a better manager than the man who has failed so miserably this season, who has given us so many humiliating results and cannot even instil basic organisation and confidence in the team? He'd be more likely to take us straight back down to League 1 to be honest. Still, at least you've stopped pretending that he's capable of keeping us up.
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Riss. Your suggestions for his replacement weren't exactly inspiring.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
I'm struggling to think of a manager who'd be worse. Poss Les Reed the ill fated failure at Charlton, Venglos, McNeill or McLeish.
PL is taking us down, that's bad enough.
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Any manager who's spent less than 25m and kept his team in the premiership would be a good starting point. Doubt its a short list.
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We're a shambles but it's top of the club down. I don't think changing the manager will change anything.
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I've been behind Lambert as, unlike McLeish, I thought he had the right idea and a plan that made sense, if implemented properly over time. That said,, for the last 6 games or so Lambert has looked completely clueless in terms of tactics, formation, motivation, and ability to organise a defence. We've made the same mistakes over and over again and look no closer to remedying them. Many of us said from early on that selling or ostracising most of the experienced players on the books and relying on youngsters was a very risky strategy. There have been times when we've looked okay but just lately we have relegation written all over us. The defence are like rabbits in the headlights, the amount of ballwatching and headless chicken style ball chasing is almost comical. Yet we don't seem to have anyone lined up to improve matters.
But I'm not convinced it's all Lambert's fault. One wonders why sell Collins with Dunne still injured,Vlaar new to the league, and only Clark, Baker and Herd in reserve? Why loan out Makoun again with Petrov out? Why discard Hutton and Warnock when, as poor as they can be, we don't have anyone better? The obvious answer is to reduce the pressure on the wage bill. Well fantastic business sense Randy, save 10m on the wage bill and rush headlong into losing 100m+ in future TV and PL revenues. Fucking genius.
Loaning Makoun out was our only real option due to his work permit issues. The rest I agree with, but we all thought they were good ideas at the start of the season. The majority of people on here were calling for Lambert, and there was a lot of 'sell the whole team and start again' towards the end of last season.
I don't think everyone thought they were good ideas, there were quite a few, including me, saying it was a high risk strategy, and pointing to the problems Houllier created for himself by trying to change too much too soon. In the long term the likes of Collins, Hutton and Warnock are not the type of players I'd like to see representing Villa but in the short term they could have been of use.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
I'm struggling to think of a manager who'd be worse. Poss Les Reed the ill fated failure at Charlton, Venglos, McNeill or McLeish.
PL is taking us down, that's bad enough.
Why would McLeish be worse? He never had the support of the fans, was thrown to the wolves by the board and didn't get backed in the January window by Lerner who sat at the back while he took all the flak.
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Riss. Your suggestions for his replacement weren't exactly inspiring.
And the only defence that anybody seems to have for him now is that they don't trust Lerner to appoint somebody else. It doesn't have to be Mourinho to see us through to the rest of the season, it just needs to be somebody who can at least organise a defence and provide a bit of motivation. Chelsea fans didn't want Benitez, but QPR result aside he's done a brilliant job in the league since taking over. I'm sure nobody fancied John Gregory when Little left, but he came in, organised things and we had an amazing lift. Lambert has failed, continues to fail and everything he has touched has turned to shite. The worst defence and the worst goal scoring record in the league, you just can't continue with somebody like that. It's a shame it hasn't worked out, but it hasn't, and we have to stay up. He will DEFINITELY take us down, so by definition a new boss MIGHT keep us up. It's probably too late in any case, but you never know. You only have to look at Lambert to see he is a broken shell of a man, and that must rub off on the players.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
You can't think of a better manager than the man who has failed so miserably this season, who has given us so many humiliating results and cannot even instil basic organisation and confidence in the team? He'd be more likely to take us straight back down to League 1 to be honest. Still, at least you've stopped pretending that he's capable of keeping us up.
Nope, can't think of a better manager who would likely want the job than Paul Lambert to get us back up should we go down. Let's face it, he has been dealt a really bum hand by Lerner, that team today contained no more than three or four Premier League standard players.
Lambert has a very good track record as a manager, Norwich's successive promotions weren't flukes, give him a season in The championship and the freedom and lack of pressure to mould a team and we'll be okay I reckon.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
You can't think of a better manager than the man who has failed so miserably this season, who has given us so many humiliating results and cannot even instil basic organisation and confidence in the team? He'd be more likely to take us straight back down to League 1 to be honest. Still, at least you've stopped pretending that he's capable of keeping us up.
Nope, can't think of a better manager who would likely want the job than Paul Lambert to get us back up should we go down. Let's face it, he has been dealt a really bum hand by Lerner, that team today contained no more than three or four Premier League standard players.
Lambert has a very good track record as a manager, Norwich's successive promotions weren't flukes, give him a season in The championship and the freedom and lack of pressure to mould a team and we'll be okay I reckon.
I agree with this. I think long term, if we drop, he will bring us straight back and be much, much stronger than we are now.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
You can't think of a better manager than the man who has failed so miserably this season, who has given us so many humiliating results and cannot even instil basic organisation and confidence in the team? He'd be more likely to take us straight back down to League 1 to be honest. Still, at least you've stopped pretending that he's capable of keeping us up.
Nope, can't think of a better manager who would likely want the job than Paul Lambert to get us back up should we go down. Let's face it, he has been dealt a really bum hand by Lerner, that team today contained no more than three or four Premier League standard players.
Lambert has a very good track record as a manager, Norwich's successive promotions weren't flukes, give him a season in The championship and the freedom and lack of pressure to mould a team and we'll be okay I reckon.
I agree with this. I think long term, if we drop, he will bring us straight back and be much, much stronger than we are now.
McLeish had a proven record of getting teams up but nobody gave him credit for that. You have already surrendered and so have I, but I don't think it is a good thing like you seem to.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
You can't think of a better manager than the man who has failed so miserably this season, who has given us so many humiliating results and cannot even instil basic organisation and confidence in the team? He'd be more likely to take us straight back down to League 1 to be honest. Still, at least you've stopped pretending that he's capable of keeping us up.
Nope, can't think of a better manager who would likely want the job than Paul Lambert to get us back up should we go down. Let's face it, he has been dealt a really bum hand by Lerner, that team today contained no more than three or four Premier League standard players.
Lambert has a very good track record as a manager, Norwich's successive promotions weren't flukes, give him a season in The championship and the freedom and lack of pressure to mould a team and we'll be okay I reckon.
Where's Owen Coyle these days? My Bolton supporting relatives were all saying the same thing about him.
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I don't think sacking the manager does anything. A lot of the players aren't good enough, we can't keep changing the manager every year. Lerner needs to open his fucking wallet and get a brain.
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No chance of us coming straight back up if we go down this year.
Finances will be even more of a mess and this squad would get the life bullied out of them in the championship on a weekly basis.
We need to somehow stay up this year and if it takes sacking Nesbit to do it then do it.
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I don't think sacking the manager does anything. A lot of the players aren't good enough, we can't keep changing the manager every year. Lerner needs to open his fucking wallet and get a brain.
To be fair he opened his wallet in the summer. What other teams spent £25m? Lambert just identified the entirely wrong sort of players. While we were spunking £7m on the likes of the fuckawful KEA and Bennett, Swansea were snapping up Michu for £2m.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
I'm struggling to think of a manager who'd be worse. Poss Les Reed the ill fated failure at Charlton, Venglos, McNeill or McLeish.
PL is taking us down, that's bad enough.
Why would McLeish be worse? He never had the support of the fans, was thrown to the wolves by the board and didn't get backed in the January window by Lerner who sat at the back while he took all the flak.
Lambert tries to win matches, and fails.
McLeish didn't even try to win matches.
That's the difference. I don't give a shit he managed Small Heath, not a flying one, but although I've been embarassed by some of our results this season, last year I was even more embarassed by the horribly negative way our manager sent us out. That was way more humiliating.
I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
I'm struggling to think of a manager who'd be worse. Poss Les Reed the ill fated failure at Charlton, Venglos, McNeill or McLeish.
PL is taking us down, that's bad enough.
Why would McLeish be worse? He never had the support of the fans, was thrown to the wolves by the board and didn't get backed in the January window by Lerner who sat at the back while he took all the flak.
Lambert tries to win matches, and fails.
McLeish didn't even try to win matches.
That's the difference. I don't give a shit he managed Small Heath, not a flying one, but although I've been embarassed by some of our results this season, last year I was even more embarassed by the horribly negative way our manager sent us out. That was way more humiliating.
I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
Agree, which is why I still don't want Lambert gone.
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Still in for me. You can't keep sacking managers, paying up their contracts, paying for a new guy to come in, use a season for them to work with a squad to see what he has to work with and then starting the process all over again. A big rebuild job was needed last summer than he realised and we might have to bite the bullet and rebuild from the Championship but it's insane to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.
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I don't think sacking the manager does anything. A lot of the players aren't good enough, we can't keep changing the manager every year. Lerner needs to open his fucking wallet and get a brain.
To be fair he opened his wallet in the summer. What other teams spent £25m? Lambert just identified the entirely wrong sort of players. While we were spunking £7m on the likes of the fuckawful KEA and Bennett, Swansea were snapping up Michu for £2m.
Fair point, but in picking on Michu, you're picking on one of the finest transfer swoops of the last 10 years. It's not like everyone was identifying bargains like that whilst we were poking around the third division, is it?
I can't even point at that many of PL's purchases and say they were shit.
Westwood, Benteke, Lowton, it's hard to see how you can label all of them as rubbish. Same with Vlaar.
If there was a problem with his purchases, it was that the balance between youth and experience was wrong, but I suspect the need to not take on high earners had a lot to do with that.
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I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
That was awful, but this current run of matches is more humiliating by a factor of about a million. I can't walk into town without meeting at least five people taking the piss out of how bad we are, and probably get about as many piss taking messages on Facebook everyday. We're a national disgrace and laughing stock at the moment.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
I'm struggling to think of a manager who'd be worse. Poss Les Reed the ill fated failure at Charlton, Venglos, McNeill or McLeish.
PL is taking us down, that's bad enough.
Why would McLeish be worse? He never had the support of the fans, was thrown to the wolves by the board and didn't get backed in the January window by Lerner who sat at the back while he took all the flak.
Lambert tries to win matches, and fails.
McLeish didn't even try to win matches.
That's the difference. I don't give a shit he managed Small Heath, not a flying one, but although I've been embarassed by some of our results this season, last year I was even more embarassed by the horribly negative way our manager sent us out. That was way more humiliating.
I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
Bang on. The line-up at Spurs was far more humiliating than the 8-0 at Chelsea for me. Bolton reserves at home in the league cup, wasn't it about the 90th minute when we had our first proper effort on goal?
We may be failing but at least we're trying to win games this season. I doubt Lambert would be punching the air in celebration over a point at home to fucking Stoke.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
I'm struggling to think of a manager who'd be worse. Poss Les Reed the ill fated failure at Charlton, Venglos, McNeill or McLeish.
PL is taking us down, that's bad enough.
Why would McLeish be worse? He never had the support of the fans, was thrown to the wolves by the board and didn't get backed in the January window by Lerner who sat at the back while he took all the flak.
Lambert tries to win matches, and fails.
McLeish didn't even try to win matches.
That's the difference. I don't give a shit he managed Small Heath, not a flying one, but although I've been embarassed by some of our results this season, last year I was even more embarassed by the horribly negative way our manager sent us out. That was way more humiliating.
I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
We aren't even negative now. We just don't give a fuck. Were you embarrassed at Chelsea and Bradford?
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I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
That was awful, but this current run of matches is more humiliating by a factor of about a million. I can't walk into town without meeting at least five people taking the piss out of how bad we are, and probably get about as many piss taking messages on Facebook everyday. We're a national disgrace and laughing stock at the moment.
Really? Fuck me, you must have a different set of values to me,
I can think of loads of runs of matches when we've got shit results and I've put up with piss taking when it has gone badly, but that surrender at White Hart Lane was truly humiliating. It was us clearly not even trying.
At least now we're trying. I can't believe you think the current run is worse, let alone "a million times worse".
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Still in for me. You can't keep sacking managers, paying up their contracts, paying for a new guy to come in, use a season for them to work with a squad to see what he has to work with and then starting the process all over again. A big rebuild job was needed last summer than he realised and we might have to bite the bullet and rebuild from the Championship but it's insane to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.
If we get relegated I'm sure we will be floundering in the bottom half like Blackburn,Bolton,Blues and Wolves.Just because we've sacked a few managers recently doesn't mean we should keep on a shit one
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
I'm struggling to think of a manager who'd be worse. Poss Les Reed the ill fated failure at Charlton, Venglos, McNeill or McLeish.
PL is taking us down, that's bad enough.
Why would McLeish be worse? He never had the support of the fans, was thrown to the wolves by the board and didn't get backed in the January window by Lerner who sat at the back while he took all the flak.
Lambert tries to win matches, and fails.
McLeish didn't even try to win matches.
That's the difference. I don't give a shit he managed Small Heath, not a flying one, but although I've been embarassed by some of our results this season, last year I was even more embarassed by the horribly negative way our manager sent us out. That was way more humiliating.
I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
Bang on. The line-up at Spurs was far more humiliating than the 8-0 at Chelsea for me. Bolton reserves at home in the league cup, wasn't it about the 90th minute when we had our first proper effort on goal?
We may be failing but at least we're trying to win games this season. I doubt Lambert would be punching the air in celebration over a point at home to fucking Stoke.
Clutching at straws now. Regardless of whether we were or weren't better under McLeish, this is pitiful. It couldn't be worse.
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I don't think sacking the manager does anything. A lot of the players aren't good enough, we can't keep changing the manager every year. Lerner needs to open his fucking wallet and get a brain.
To be fair he opened his wallet in the summer. What other teams spent £25m? Lambert just identified the entirely wrong sort of players. While we were spunking £7m on the likes of the fuckawful KEA and Bennett, Swansea were snapping up Michu for £2m.
We won't pay the wages for decent players though. That's why we have to look at lower league shit.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
I'm struggling to think of a manager who'd be worse. Poss Les Reed the ill fated failure at Charlton, Venglos, McNeill or McLeish.
PL is taking us down, that's bad enough.
Why would McLeish be worse? He never had the support of the fans, was thrown to the wolves by the board and didn't get backed in the January window by Lerner who sat at the back while he took all the flak.
Lambert tries to win matches, and fails.
McLeish didn't even try to win matches.
That's the difference. I don't give a shit he managed Small Heath, not a flying one, but although I've been embarassed by some of our results this season, last year I was even more embarassed by the horribly negative way our manager sent us out. That was way more humiliating.
I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
We aren't even negative now. We just don't give a fuck. Were you embarrassed at Chelsea and Bradford?
Yes, I was embarassed, embarassed at the shitness of the performances, but at least we tried.
McLeish put out the most disgracefully negative Villa sides I think i've ever seen.
Like you, I have seen plenty of shit Villa sides, but I've seen none as embarassing as last year's. I got kind of sick of reading people saying we were an unambitious disgrace when there was absolutely no evidence to suggest we weren't.
I genuinely don't see how you can label MON - a man I have very little respect for - "evil" and then defend that shambolic embarassment McLeish.
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I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
That was awful, but this current run of matches is more humiliating by a factor of about a million. I can't walk into town without meeting at least five people taking the piss out of how bad we are, and probably get about as many piss taking messages on Facebook everyday. We're a national disgrace and laughing stock at the moment.
Fuck 'em. To put it bluntly, who gives a shit what anyone else thinks?
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I don't think sacking the manager does anything. A lot of the players aren't good enough, we can't keep changing the manager every year. Lerner needs to open his fucking wallet and get a brain.
To be fair he opened his wallet in the summer. What other teams spent £25m? Lambert just identified the entirely wrong sort of players. While we were spunking £7m on the likes of the fuckawful KEA and Bennett, Swansea were snapping up Michu for £2m.
Fair point, but in picking on Michu, you're picking on one of the finest transfer swoops of the last 10 years. It's not like everyone was identifying bargains like that whilst we were poking around the third division, is it?
I can't even point at that many of PL's purchases and say they were shit.
Westwood, Benteke, Lowton, it's hard to see how you can label all of them as rubbish. Same with Vlaar.
If there was a problem with his purchases, it was that the balance between youth and experience was wrong, but I suspect the need to not take on high earners had a lot to do with that.
I didn't say that they were rubbish, just that they were the wrong type of players. But at most, Lowton and Westwood are the best of a truly rotten side. They still look like lower league players busting a gut to move up a level. I wasn't impressed with Vlaar before he got injured, and Bennett and KEA are beyond awful. But the fact is that a squad who just avoided relegation needed quality and experience, and he didn't buy a single player who matched that description. And it isn't just Michu, Mirrallas at £5m is a bargain, Berbatov was £5m, Snodgrass at Norwich was £3m, Bassong was free, Pogrebnyak was free, Charlie Adam was £4m, NZonzi £3.5m, and the list goes on. All good value players who have made an impact at their clubs this season, and who would have improved us no end.
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Still in for me. You can't keep sacking managers, paying up their contracts, paying for a new guy to come in, use a season for them to work with a squad to see what he has to work with and then starting the process all over again. A big rebuild job was needed last summer than he realised and we might have to bite the bullet and rebuild from the Championship but it's insane to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.
If we get relegated I'm sure we will be floundering in the bottom half like Blackburn,Bolton,Blues and Wolves.Just because we've sacked a few managers recently doesn't mean we should keep on a shit one
No, but the cost of doing so, and the absence of anyone immedaitely available who is likely to do better, and the fast disappearing transfer window are a good rason not to sack him.
It's like some of you haven't noticed the terrible fucking squad and the rapidly decreasing amount of time left in which to do something about it.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
I'm struggling to think of a manager who'd be worse. Poss Les Reed the ill fated failure at Charlton, Venglos, McNeill or McLeish.
PL is taking us down, that's bad enough.
Why would McLeish be worse? He never had the support of the fans, was thrown to the wolves by the board and didn't get backed in the January window by Lerner who sat at the back while he took all the flak.
Lambert tries to win matches, and fails.
McLeish didn't even try to win matches.
That's the difference. I don't give a shit he managed Small Heath, not a flying one, but although I've been embarassed by some of our results this season, last year I was even more embarassed by the horribly negative way our manager sent us out. That was way more humiliating.
I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
Bang on. The line-up at Spurs was far more humiliating than the 8-0 at Chelsea for me. Bolton reserves at home in the league cup, wasn't it about the 90th minute when we had our first proper effort on goal?
We may be failing but at least we're trying to win games this season. I doubt Lambert would be punching the air in celebration over a point at home to fucking Stoke.
Absolutely nothing comes close to the humiliation we've suffered this season under Lambert. Not even McLeish. Trying to fool yourself that this season's abomination was better than last is delusion beyond belief.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
I'm struggling to think of a manager who'd be worse. Poss Les Reed the ill fated failure at Charlton, Venglos, McNeill or McLeish.
PL is taking us down, that's bad enough.
Why would McLeish be worse? He never had the support of the fans, was thrown to the wolves by the board and didn't get backed in the January window by Lerner who sat at the back while he took all the flak.
Lambert tries to win matches, and fails.
McLeish didn't even try to win matches.
That's the difference. I don't give a shit he managed Small Heath, not a flying one, but although I've been embarassed by some of our results this season, last year I was even more embarassed by the horribly negative way our manager sent us out. That was way more humiliating.
I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
Bang on. The line-up at Spurs was far more humiliating than the 8-0 at Chelsea for me. Bolton reserves at home in the league cup, wasn't it about the 90th minute when we had our first proper effort on goal?
We may be failing but at least we're trying to win games this season. I doubt Lambert would be punching the air in celebration over a point at home to fucking Stoke.
Clutching at straws now. Regardless of whether we were or weren't better under McLeish, this is pitiful. It couldn't be worse.
No i'm not clutching at straws. It's my opinion, I fucking hated going to Villa Park last season under him. Seeing our manager celebrating a point at home to Stoke was a far bigger disgrace than getting twatted by trying to win matches in my opinion.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
I'm struggling to think of a manager who'd be worse. Poss Les Reed the ill fated failure at Charlton, Venglos, McNeill or McLeish.
PL is taking us down, that's bad enough.
Why would McLeish be worse? He never had the support of the fans, was thrown to the wolves by the board and didn't get backed in the January window by Lerner who sat at the back while he took all the flak.
Lambert tries to win matches, and fails.
McLeish didn't even try to win matches.
That's the difference. I don't give a shit he managed Small Heath, not a flying one, but although I've been embarassed by some of our results this season, last year I was even more embarassed by the horribly negative way our manager sent us out. That was way more humiliating.
I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
We aren't even negative now. We just don't give a fuck. Were you embarrassed at Chelsea and Bradford?
Yes, I was embarassed, embarassed at the shitness of the performances, but at least we tried.
McLeish put out the most disgracefully negative Villa sides I think i've ever seen.
Like you, I have seen plenty of shit Villa sides, but I've seen none as embarassing as last year's. I got kind of sick of reading people saying we were an unambitious disgrace when there was absolutely no evidence to suggest we weren't.
I genuinely don't see how you can label MON - a man I have very little respect for - "evil" and then defend that shambolic embarassment McLeish.
We won't get anywhere arguing amongst ourselves. There are a few on here now, myself included, in agreement with each other, but spoiling for a row. One reason for it is that the main culprit doesn't put himself up for anyone to speak to.
You are right. I detest O'Neill but had time for Alex McLeish. One thought he was bigger than the club and managed to piss off Lerner. The other suffered from this and became one in a line of managers who Lerner put up as cannon fodder.
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Sorry but I found Chelsea away this year far more embarrassing than spurs away last year.
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Absolutely nothing comes close to the humiliation we've suffered this season under Lambert. Not even McLeish. Trying to fool yourself that this season's abomination was better than last is delusion beyond belief.
Again, it's my opinion. Just because you have a different one doesn't mean i'll go round telling you you're deluded.
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
I'm struggling to think of a manager who'd be worse. Poss Les Reed the ill fated failure at Charlton, Venglos, McNeill or McLeish.
PL is taking us down, that's bad enough.
Why would McLeish be worse? He never had the support of the fans, was thrown to the wolves by the board and didn't get backed in the January window by Lerner who sat at the back while he took all the flak.
Lambert tries to win matches, and fails.
McLeish didn't even try to win matches.
That's the difference. I don't give a shit he managed Small Heath, not a flying one, but although I've been embarassed by some of our results this season, last year I was even more embarassed by the horribly negative way our manager sent us out. That was way more humiliating.
I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
Bang on. The line-up at Spurs was far more humiliating than the 8-0 at Chelsea for me. Bolton reserves at home in the league cup, wasn't it about the 90th minute when we had our first proper effort on goal?
We may be failing but at least we're trying to win games this season. I doubt Lambert would be punching the air in celebration over a point at home to fucking Stoke.
Absolutely nothing comes close to the humiliation we've suffered this season under Lambert. Not even McLeish. Trying to fool yourself that this season's abomination was better than last is delusion beyond belief.
Really?
Fuck me, get a grip.
I know we're poor this season, but some of you are at the point now when you're going to start telling us this is worse than McNeill, Turner and Venglos combined.
It feels worse because it is happening now, but FFS, get a fucking grip.
What next? Worse than World War Two? Worse than Bosnia? Worse than the holocaust?
Everyone can see things are going shitly, and everyone can see what is needed to put it right, and that it isn't happening thus far, but if this is really the worst you've ever seen from Villa, you must be about 12 years old.
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Lambert has put out some pretty unadventurous sides himself this season. The first half at home to Spurs comes to mind although to give him his due he did change it for the second half, during which we got battered.
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Any manager who's spent less than 25m and kept his team in the premiership would be a good starting point. Doubt its a short list.
And Lambert didn't do this with Norwich?
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Still in for me.
Yes we're probably going down but I can't think of a better manager, who would want the job, to bring us back up.
I'm struggling to think of a manager who'd be worse. Poss Les Reed the ill fated failure at Charlton, Venglos, McNeill or McLeish.
PL is taking us down, that's bad enough.
Why would McLeish be worse? He never had the support of the fans, was thrown to the wolves by the board and didn't get backed in the January window by Lerner who sat at the back while he took all the flak.
Lambert tries to win matches, and fails.
McLeish didn't even try to win matches.
That's the difference. I don't give a shit he managed Small Heath, not a flying one, but although I've been embarassed by some of our results this season, last year I was even more embarassed by the horribly negative way our manager sent us out. That was way more humiliating.
I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
Bang on. The line-up at Spurs was far more humiliating than the 8-0 at Chelsea for me. Bolton reserves at home in the league cup, wasn't it about the 90th minute when we had our first proper effort on goal?
We may be failing but at least we're trying to win games this season. I doubt Lambert would be punching the air in celebration over a point at home to fucking Stoke.
Absolutely nothing comes close to the humiliation we've suffered this season under Lambert. Not even McLeish. Trying to fool yourself that this season's abomination was better than last is delusion beyond belief.
yep. not trying to win matches is a bit better than having no clue how not to lose matches. At least with the former you get a point out of it if it comes off.
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Sorry but I found Chelsea away this year far more embarrassing than spurs away last year.
Both the above matches I happened to be in the home ends. Paxton when we capitulated to the most convincing 2-0 score line ever and this year in the Matthew Harding on my own having the piss ripped out of me by the wankers that support Cheski.
However, I have to say that today's result has hurt more than either.
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Sorry but I found Chelsea away this year far more embarrassing than spurs away last year.
Spot on. As was the Everton defeat, the Wigan defeat, the Spurs on Boxing Day defeat, the Man City defeat, the Bradford humiliation.....
Still, it was worse under McLeish.
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Still 'in' for me, but if we go out of the cup (even if we win on the night) and then get twatted by Olbiyun, i will be in the 'out' camp. Yes Lerner is the root problem at the club, but it's starting to look like it's a lost cause with Lambert as well, regardless of Lerner.
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With the latter you get 3 if it comes off. I'd rather go down by trying to win than hoping to stay up by drawing as many as possible.
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No i'm not clutching at straws. It's my opinion, I fucking hated going to Villa Park last season under him. Seeing our manager celebrating a point at home to Stoke was a far bigger disgrace than getting twatted by trying to win matches in my opinion.
Me too, that was fucking abysmal, and said it all.
I didn't renew this season, for financial reasons more than anything. Normally, I'd have been gutted at not having the cash for my season ticket, but I tell you what, last season did more to make it easier to handle than I could have imagined.
McLeish is far from the only one guilty in getting us where we are, but last year the joy of football totally, totally disappeared.
I still think that after making progress under Houllier - who gets a lot of stick on here - and starting to play some football, and achieving a respectable (if somewhat flattering) final placing, we needed to appoint a manager who had a modern outlook on the way to play the game, someone who believed in modern, passing football.
That would have kept the fans onside and built on what had been achieved in a largely unpleasant year under Houllier. What they did was utterly, utterly inexplicable and made absolutely zero sense.
We've got a home semi final in a week and a bit and we will probably have 5-10,000 seats empty for it, and if you want to know the reason why, the origins of it go to the huge wedge the club put between them and the fans when they made that appointment. Everything that has happened since has just made the wedge bigger.
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Everyone can see things are going shitly, and everyone can see what is needed to put it right, and that it isn't happening thus far, but if this is really the worst you've ever seen from Villa, you must be about 12 years old.
Can Lerner see what is needed to put it right? By the way, I am only 56 but struggle to remember times as crap as this, including those with Penrice and Aspinall in the team. Relegation to the 2nd and 3rd Divisions was not this bad, in my view.
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Any manager who's spent less than 25m and kept his team in the premiership would be a good starting point. Doubt its a short list.
And Lambert didn't do this with Norwich?
He did. As i said its not exactly a short list. My point is saying we can't get better than Lambert is silly. There's loads of managers who've survived in the premiership without throwing 25m at it.
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Everyone can see things are going shitly, and everyone can see what is needed to put it right, and that it isn't happening thus far, but if this is really the worst you've ever seen from Villa, you must be about 12 years old.
He's right, this is easily the worst Villa team I've seen, and I'm only a couple of years younger than you. Least goals scored, worst defence, worst ever result, you know the drill. Your argument continues to be "he isn't McLeish" which isn't saying much, seeing as he had £25m to spend on the squad that McLeish kept up.
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You could stick Barnet in the premier league and they'd have a better run than we have had the last 6 games. You cut your cloth to fit. Play to your strengths, trying to win matches is one thing, carrying on attacking Chelsea when you're 3-0 down and they've built up a head of steam is another.
All this talk of being set up to try and win a game is shit aswell, how many games have we attacked the opposition and gave them real problems and looked like winning, a handfull. We are the divisions whipping boys and need something cleverer than what's being attempted at the moment.
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With the latter you get 3 if it comes off. I'd rather go down by trying to win than hoping to stay up by drawing as many as possible.
Sorry but we rarely look like winning with Lamberts naive tactics. Hapless endeavour doesn't do it for me.
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With the latter you get 3 if it comes off. I'd rather go down by trying to win than hoping to stay up by drawing as many as possible.
Sorry but we rarely look like winning with Lamberts naive tactics. Hapless endeavour doesn't do it for me.
Nope. McLeish was negative, but at least he could organise a team and wasn't stupid, unlike Lambert.
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With the latter you get 3 if it comes off. I'd rather go down by trying to win than hoping to stay up by drawing as many as possible.
Sorry but we rarely look like winning with Lamberts naive tactics. Hapless endeavour doesn't do it for me.
Nope. McLeish was negative, but at least he could organise a team and wasn't stupid, unlike Lambert.
Bit revisionist Risso. We looked a pretty disorganised rabble for the second half of last year.
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Everyone can see things are going shitly, and everyone can see what is needed to put it right, and that it isn't happening thus far, but if this is really the worst you've ever seen from Villa, you must be about 12 years old.
Can Lerner see what is needed to put it right? By the way, I am only 56 but struggle to remember times as crap as this, including those with Penrice and Aspinall in the team. Relegation to the 2nd and 3rd Divisions was not this bad, in my view.
You've got 12 years on me, but I don't see how relegation to the third division was not worse than a run of 1 draw and four losses.
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With the latter you get 3 if it comes off. I'd rather go down by trying to win than hoping to stay up by drawing as many as possible.
Sorry but we rarely look like winning with Lamberts naive tactics. Hapless endeavour doesn't do it for me.
Nope. McLeish was negative, but at least he could organise a team and wasn't stupid, unlike Lambert.
Oh, yes
I remember you saying that about McLeish all last season.
Not.
Come on, you can't really expect us to swallow that one?
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Everyone can see things are going shitly, and everyone can see what is needed to put it right, and that it isn't happening thus far, but if this is really the worst you've ever seen from Villa, you must be about 12 years old.
He's right, this is easily the worst Villa team I've seen, and I'm only a couple of years younger than you. Least goals scored, worst defence, worst ever result, you know the drill. Your argument continues to be "he isn't McLeish" which isn't saying much, seeing as he had £25m to spend on the squad that McLeish kept up.
You keep saying that, but I've not said that at all. I've only commented on McLeish when others have.
I've made my point about why sacking him would be stupid about 300 times this week alone, and every single time I've pointed out the rapidly disappearing transfer window, the wasting of money on compensation, the lack of a credible alternative, the need for him to assemble a management team and bed them in, you've totally refused to address those questions, other than say "Roberto Di Matteo. Oh, or Roy Keane".
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With the latter you get 3 if it comes off. I'd rather go down by trying to win than hoping to stay up by drawing as many as possible.
But it doesn't come off if you can't organise your team into some coherent force. If we were trying to play football with poor players like say Wigan, that would be one thing, but we're not. Its a shambles every time we take the pitch
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Everyone can see things are going shitly, and everyone can see what is needed to put it right, and that it isn't happening thus far, but if this is really the worst you've ever seen from Villa, you must be about 12 years old.
Can Lerner see what is needed to put it right? By the way, I am only 56 but struggle to remember times as crap as this, including those with Penrice and Aspinall in the team. Relegation to the 2nd and 3rd Divisions was not this bad, in my view.
You've got 12 years on me, but I don't see how relegation to the third division was not worse than a run of 1 draw and four losses.
We hadn't spent £250m back then, for a start. And I think we're on the road to dropping another division to be honest, or at least spending a few years in the Championship, at least. If we go down we'll still be stuck paying the likes of Ireland, Given, Hutton and N'Zogbia their mammoth wages whilst on a reduced income, while the likes of Benteke will be off to Premier Clubs such as Stoke or West Ham. I don't even think our central midfield is Championship standard to be honest, and can't see Lerner suddenly thinking "Right, better spend some dosh to get us out of this division" seeing as he doesn't seem to want to spend any to keep us in this one.
Our entire club is sick from top to bottom.
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Mcleish created a shambolic negative team. So ignore Mcleish he was a disaster, Lambert has been poor but if Mcleish got a season Lambert deserves one.
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With the latter you get 3 if it comes off. I'd rather go down by trying to win than hoping to stay up by drawing as many as possible.
Sorry but we rarely look like winning with Lamberts naive tactics. Hapless endeavour doesn't do it for me.
Nope. McLeish was negative, but at least he could organise a team and wasn't stupid, unlike Lambert.
Oh, yes
I remember you saying that about McLeish all last season.
Not.
Come on, you can't really expect us to swallow that one?
We were pissed off with Houllier at the time, we were pissed off with McLeish and now that the patience is starting to wear thin, there are those on here ( myself included) who are now pissed off with PL.
We all have more positive recollections of the past, this goes for all things in life, however, we are all hurting at this time and we can debate the pros and cons of McLeish vs Lambert vs whoever for as long as we want. The facts are, we're heading for the trap door and based on current form I cannot see a single game that I am confident of winning between now and the end of the season.
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Everyone can see things are going shitly, and everyone can see what is needed to put it right, and that it isn't happening thus far, but if this is really the worst you've ever seen from Villa, you must be about 12 years old.
Can Lerner see what is needed to put it right? By the way, I am only 56 but struggle to remember times as crap as this, including those with Penrice and Aspinall in the team. Relegation to the 2nd and 3rd Divisions was not this bad, in my view.
You've got 12 years on me, but I don't see how relegation to the third division was not worse than a run of 1 draw and four losses.
We hadn't spent £250m back then, for a start. And I think we're on the road to dropping another division to be honest, or at least spending a few years in the Championship, at least. If we go down we'll still be stuck paying the likes of Ireland, Given, Hutton and N'Zogbia their mammoth wages whilst on a reduced income, while the likes of Benteke will be off to Premier Clubs such as Stoke or West Ham. I don't even think our central midfield is Championship standard to be honest, and can't see Lerner suddenly thinking "Right, better spend some dosh to get us out of this division" seeing as he doesn't seem to want to spend any to keep us in this one.
Our entire club is sick from top to bottom.
No, we hadn't, but then again, football was entirely different back then.
I entirely take your points about how much shit we'll be in if we get relegated, and you know my opinion on our glorious leader, I'm just surprised to hear that the possibility of relegation to the second flight is in fact worse than the actual relegation to the third flight.
It's worse in the sense it is now, and we're worrying about it right now rather than something which happened 40 years ago, but really, let's keep it in perspective.
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Everyone can see things are going shitly, and everyone can see what is needed to put it right, and that it isn't happening thus far, but if this is really the worst you've ever seen from Villa, you must be about 12 years old.
He's right, this is easily the worst Villa team I've seen, and I'm only a couple of years younger than you. Least goals scored, worst defence, worst ever result, you know the drill. Your argument continues to be "he isn't McLeish" which isn't saying much, seeing as he had £25m to spend on the squad that McLeish kept up.
You keep saying that, but I've not said that at all. I've only commented on McLeish when others have.
I've made my point about why sacking him would be stupid about 300 times this week alone, and every single time I've pointed out the rapidly disappearing transfer window, the wasting of money on compensation, the lack of a credible alternative, the need for him to assemble a management team and bed them in, you've totally refused to address those questions, other than say "Roberto Di Matteo. Oh, or Roy Keane".
It's only rapidly disappearing because Lerner has kept the useless ****** in employment when he should have been sacked when the Christmas decorations came down! And £2m on compo is a drop of piss in the ocean compared to what we'll lose when Lambert takes us down, which he surely will. Another manager MIGHT just keep us up, Lambert definitely, certainly, absolutely, will not. He's a broken, dejected manner without the slightest clue how to turn things round.
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With the latter you get 3 if it comes off. I'd rather go down by trying to win than hoping to stay up by drawing as many as possible.
Sorry but we rarely look like winning with Lamberts naive tactics. Hapless endeavour doesn't do it for me.
Nope. McLeish was negative, but at least he could organise a team and wasn't stupid, unlike Lambert.
Oh, yes
I remember you saying that about McLeish all last season.
Not.
Come on, you can't really expect us to swallow that one?
We were pissed off with Houllier at the time, we were pissed off with McLeish and now that the patience is starting to wear thin, there are those on here ( myself included) who are now pissed off with PL.
We all have more positive recollections of the past, this goes for all things in life, however, we are all hurting at this time and we can debate the pros and cons of McLeish vs Lambert vs whoever for as long as we want. The facts are, we're heading for the trap door and based on current form I cannot see a single game that I am confident of winning between now and the end of the season.
I am not in disagreement with any of that.
My point is that, beyond bloodletting and the rush of having sacked the manager, you then have to have a better plan to keep us where we are.
If the amount of money available to a new manager is the same as available to the current one - ie bugger all - then changing manager will fix nothing, because that's not the major problem. In fact, it'll make things worse, because it'll leave us with even less money and even less time to both try to get players in, and to get some points together.
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With the latter you get 3 if it comes off. I'd rather go down by trying to win than hoping to stay up by drawing as many as possible.
Sorry but we rarely look like winning with Lamberts naive tactics. Hapless endeavour doesn't do it for me.
Nope. McLeish was negative, but at least he could organise a team and wasn't stupid, unlike Lambert.
Oh, yes
I remember you saying that about McLeish all last season.
Not.
Come on, you can't really expect us to swallow that one?
We were pissed off with Houllier at the time, we were pissed off with McLeish and now that the patience is starting to wear thin, there are those on here ( myself included) who are now pissed off with PL.
We all have more positive recollections of the past, this goes for all things in life, however, we are all hurting at this time and we can debate the pros and cons of McLeish vs Lambert vs whoever for as long as we want. The facts are, we're heading for the trap door and based on current form I cannot see a single game that I am confident of winning between now and the end of the season.
I am not in disagreement with any of that.
My point is that, beyond bloodletting and the rush of having sacked the manager, you then have to have a better plan to keep us where we are.
If the amount of money available to a new manager is the same as available to the current one - ie bugger all - then changing manager will fix nothing, because that's not the major problem. In fact, it'll make things worse, because it'll leave us with even less money and even less time to both try to get players in, and to get some points together.
Yep that's essentially the problem.
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Everyone can see things are going shitly, and everyone can see what is needed to put it right, and that it isn't happening thus far, but if this is really the worst you've ever seen from Villa, you must be about 12 years old.
Can Lerner see what is needed to put it right? By the way, I am only 56 but struggle to remember times as crap as this, including those with Penrice and Aspinall in the team. Relegation to the 2nd and 3rd Divisions was not this bad, in my view.
You've got 12 years on me, but I don't see how relegation to the third division was not worse than a run of 1 draw and four losses.
It's all very well cherry picking statistics. The general air about the place is far far worse than it was back in 1970. It is now truly pathetic. We have no one to turn to. Our owner doesn't even show his face. When we went into the 3rd Division, we went there with defiance. That will not be the case next season if we are still owned by a person who has absolutely no charisma.
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Everyone can see things are going shitly, and everyone can see what is needed to put it right, and that it isn't happening thus far, but if this is really the worst you've ever seen from Villa, you must be about 12 years old.
He's right, this is easily the worst Villa team I've seen, and I'm only a couple of years younger than you. Least goals scored, worst defence, worst ever result, you know the drill. Your argument continues to be "he isn't McLeish" which isn't saying much, seeing as he had £25m to spend on the squad that McLeish kept up.
You keep saying that, but I've not said that at all. I've only commented on McLeish when others have.
I've made my point about why sacking him would be stupid about 300 times this week alone, and every single time I've pointed out the rapidly disappearing transfer window, the wasting of money on compensation, the lack of a credible alternative, the need for him to assemble a management team and bed them in, you've totally refused to address those questions, other than say "Roberto Di Matteo. Oh, or Roy Keane".
It's only rapidly disappearing because Lerner has kept the useless c*** in employment when he should have been sacked when the Christmas decorations came down! And £2m on compo is a drop of piss in the ocean compared to what we'll lose when Lambert takes us down, which he surely will. Another manager MIGHT just keep us up, Lambert definitely, certainly, absolutely, will not. He's a broken, dejected manner without the slightest clue how to turn things round.
That's where I disagree with you.
Another manager might keep us up, but there's also a good chance he won't. My money is on the manager already in place, who has been working with the squad since the summer getting it right rather than poking around for whoever is available now - and let;s not forget, it's not just "keep us up, then fuck off", it'll mean them being at the club for a while after that.
I am sick to the tits of the short termism. This time last year you were begging for Sam Allardyce. How long would he have got? We sack Lambert now and then get lumbered with Di Matteo. How long does he get?
And seemingly you've decided it'll cost 2m to pay off Lambert - even more money you're suggesting we piss away, having just told us how fucked our finances are.
I also massively resent your simplistic bullshit argument that my only argument is "at least he's not McLeish" when you know full well it is nothing of the sort. I have repeatedly pointed out my reasons for not sacking him, and you've repeatedly failed to come up with a decent counter argument beyond losing your rag. I've also repeatedly asked you your suggestions for how to move forward and you haven't got a fucking clue what to do, you're just so angry you want the present manager sacked.
Look at the voting in the poll above. Thank fuck there are enough of us who can see the wider picture and aren't just perenially angry and wanting to show it, regardless of the cost.
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The inability to buy new players is a major problem, you're right, but then so is our completely shambolic organisation, which a new manager may be able to sort out. Other than about three or four games, we've been shite in the league all season, and look like we have no idea whatsoever how to even begin to keep a clean sheet. Lambert has made so many idiotic decisions, it's baffling how he's kept his job. Who would have stuck with the three at the back after getting battered two games running for example? He was supposed to be a flexible tactician but he makes Martin O'Neill look like Pep Guardiola such is his naivety.
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With the latter you get 3 if it comes off. I'd rather go down by trying to win than hoping to stay up by drawing as many as possible.
Sorry but we rarely look like winning with Lamberts naive tactics. Hapless endeavour doesn't do it for me.
Nope. McLeish was negative, but at least he could organise a team and wasn't stupid, unlike Lambert.
Oh, yes
I remember you saying that about McLeish all last season.
Not.
Come on, you can't really expect us to swallow that one?
We were pissed off with Houllier at the time, we were pissed off with McLeish and now that the patience is starting to wear thin, there are those on here ( myself included) who are now pissed off with PL.
We all have more positive recollections of the past, this goes for all things in life, however, we are all hurting at this time and we can debate the pros and cons of McLeish vs Lambert vs whoever for as long as we want. The facts are, we're heading for the trap door and based on current form I cannot see a single game that I am confident of winning between now and the end of the season.
I am not in disagreement with any of that.
My point is that, beyond bloodletting and the rush of having sacked the manager, you then have to have a better plan to keep us where we are.
If the amount of money available to a new manager is the same as available to the current one - ie bugger all - then changing manager will fix nothing, because that's not the major problem. In fact, it'll make things worse, because it'll leave us with even less money and even less time to both try to get players in, and to get some points together.
I hear you but I will counter it with this: 'If' PL has lost the dressing room and I'm not saying one way or the other as to whether he has or not, but this is a major factor that would determine an outcome irrespective of financial matters.
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If they were to sack Lambert then right now is the optimum time to do it. Half a season still to go, half a transfer window to do a few deals. It's not in their nature though, seemingly, to act decisively or swiftly.
I'm not sure that Risso's ability to come up with decent alternatives has any bearing on whether Lambert should stay or go. I'm sure Lerner and Faulkner could come up with someone they thought was suitable. "Here he is guys... Sir Clive Woodward. Er no, sorry. Sir Clive Sinclair!"
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"If"
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I started going to the Villa in '77 and I've never seen a Villa team as bad as this. If others on here think that's being OTT so be it, but that's what I honestly think. I had a season ticket last time we went down and we were nowhere near as poor as we are now. We've been humiliated so many times this season I've lost count. Last season was nothing compared to this disaster.
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Look at the voting in the poll above. Thank fuck there are enough of us who can see the wider picture and aren't just perenially angry and wanting to show it, regardless of the cost.
Then you can enjoy paying your money in the Championship with all the other people clever enough to see the wider picture. Well done you. And thank god we didn't get Big Sam eh, phew, bullet dodged there.
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If they were to sack Lambert then right now is the optimum time to do it. Half a season still to go, half a transfer window to do a few deals. It's not in their nature though, seemingly, to act decisively or swiftly.
Why is it?
Half a transfer window is two weeks plus a few days. In that time we need to get the new man in, hope to fuck he's spent the last few months scouting rather than sitting watching SSN all day, and pray he can do some business in the few days he'll have left.
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Was the general air really better as we finished 15th, 19th, 16th, 16th, 21st (relegated), 16th (old div 2), 18th (old div 2), 21st (relegated to division 3)?
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Look at the voting in the poll above. Thank fuck there are enough of us who can see the wider picture and aren't just perenially angry and wanting to show it, regardless of the cost.
Then you can enjoy paying your money in the Championship with all the other people clever enough to see the wider picture. Well done you. And thank god we didn't get Big Sam eh, phew, bullet dodged there.
You act like those of us who disagree with you either don't think we are at risk of relegation, or actually want to go into the Championship. As if we've not noticed how shit results are.
The fact is, you were shouting for Big Sam, who may or may not have kept us up at that point, without thinking that that would have meant being lumbered with him for the foreseeable future.
You yourself would then have turned out to be the very first person calling for his head when we witnessed his neanderthal brand of "football" the following season.
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I started going to the Villa in '77 and I've never seen a Villa team as bad as this. If others on here think that's being OTT so be it, but that's what I honestly think. I had a season ticket last time we went down and we were nowhere near as poor as we are now. We've been humiliated so many times this season I've lost count. Last season was nothing compared to this disaster.
Maybe we should just shout at you and call you deluded, like you do anyone who doesn't follow your line?
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Why is it?
Half a transfer window is two weeks plus a few days. In that time we need to get the new man in, hope to fuck he's spent the last few months scouting rather than sitting watching SSN all day, and pray he can do some business in the few days he'll have left.
Because after the end of January he won't have any time at all. Some is better than none, obviously.
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If they were to sack Lambert then right now is the optimum time to do it. Half a season still to go, half a transfer window to do a few deals. It's not in their nature though, seemingly, to act decisively or swiftly.
Why is it?
Half a transfer window is two weeks plus a few days. In that time we need to get the new man in, hope to fuck he's spent the last few months scouting rather than sitting watching SSN all day, and pray he can do some business in the few days he'll have left.
Lambert has said he's unlikely to get anybody else in, and said on the BBC that today's result doesn't change that. We're therefore left with a decision - who's going to best organise the team to stay up; Lambert who been spectacularly shit to date, or somebody else. If somebody is definitely going to take us down, then surely it's worth a shot on somebody else. And there's no point in complaining that we've only two weeks of the window left, when you were arguing the same none-reasons for keeping Lambert two weeks ago when a new man would have had time to at least look at a few loans.
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We're a shambles noone is denying that, but changing the manager will do nothing. Lambert has done a good job at his previous clubs over the last few years, and deserves a chance. However the board have to actually support the club properly and finance us suitably. Bottom line is we need finance from Lerner and without it could be Lambert or anyone else we'd still drop.
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Was the general air really better as we finished 15th, 19th, 16th, 16th, 21st (relegated), 16th (old div 2), 18th (old div 2), 21st (relegated to division 3)?
Before my time. This is as hapless as I've ever seen the club I reckon.
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If they were to sack Lambert then right now is the optimum time to do it. Half a season still to go, half a transfer window to do a few deals. It's not in their nature though, seemingly, to act decisively or swiftly.
Why is it?
Half a transfer window is two weeks plus a few days. In that time we need to get the new man in, hope to fuck he's spent the last few months scouting rather than sitting watching SSN all day, and pray he can do some business in the few days he'll have left.
Lambert has said he's unlikely to get anybody else in, and said on the BBC that today's result doesn't change that. We're therefore left with a decision - who's going to best organise the team to stay up; Lambert who been spectacularly shit to date, or somebody else. If somebody is definitely going to take us down, then surely it's worth a shot on somebody else. And there's no point in complaining that we've only two weeks of the window left, when you were arguing the same none-reasons for keeping Lambert two weeks ago when a new man would have had time to at least look at a few loans.
Yes, I was arguing that two weeks ago, and I am even more convinced now, with even less time, that it would be a stupid move.
The major problem is not the manager, it is the man above the manager, and the man above him.
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Look at the voting in the poll above. Thank fuck there are enough of us who can see the wider picture and aren't just perenially angry and wanting to show it, regardless of the cost.
Then you can enjoy paying your money in the Championship with all the other people clever enough to see the wider picture. Well done you. And thank god we didn't get Big Sam eh, phew, bullet dodged there.
You act like those of us who disagree with you either don't think we are at risk of relegation, or actually want to go into the Championship. As if we've not noticed how shit results are.
The fact is, you were shouting for Big Sam, who may or may not have kept us up at that point, without thinking that that would have meant being lumbered with him for the foreseeable future.
You yourself would then have turned out to be the very first person calling for his head when we witnessed his neanderthal brand of "football" the following season.
Risso, you were in the wanting Lambert in the summer camp. And you were just as big a critic of McLeish as anyone, including his organisation. Second half of last season was just as bad as this and at times worse. At least we had 16 attempts today!
The only thing today showed second half is that there is a bit of fight there, which until today I had not seen. They showed there is still a bit of passion, and need to keep that going next week against Albion.
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Was the general air really better as we finished 15th, 19th, 16th, 16th, 21st (relegated), 16th (old div 2), 18th (old div 2), 21st (relegated to division 3)?
Forgive me, it might be nostalgia. As a young lad in those days, I got goose pimples being anywhere near Villa Park. If you blindfolded me and put me in the ground in the middle of the night, I would know where I was. There was an atmosphere and 'feel' about it that I have never forgotten.
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People wanted Houllier out after the Liverpool game, TSM before he'd got through the door, so Lambert is comparison has had the honeymoon period, and 2 years living together. I don't see why he's any different from the last two. Yes a lot of people wanted him and yes he's got a piss poor deal (like the last two managers) BUT if he's not motivating or organising the players what do you do? Just accept it or hope a new guy can get the players onside? We're poor, everyone knows that, but we could stay up if they play to their strengths and get the confidence and belief back. That's not going to happen under Lambert sadly.
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Look at the voting in the poll above. Thank fuck there are enough of us who can see the wider picture and aren't just perenially angry and wanting to show it, regardless of the cost.
Then you can enjoy paying your money in the Championship with all the other people clever enough to see the wider picture. Well done you. And thank god we didn't get Big Sam eh, phew, bullet dodged there.
You act like those of us who disagree with you either don't think we are at risk of relegation, or actually want to go into the Championship. As if we've not noticed how shit results are.
The fact is, you were shouting for Big Sam, who may or may not have kept us up at that point, without thinking that that would have meant being lumbered with him for the foreseeable future.
You yourself would then have turned out to be the very first person calling for his head when we witnessed his neanderthal brand of "football" the following season.
Actually I like Big Sam, and the game I saw the other day when Cole made his debut was far better footballing wise than anything we've managed this season.
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Was the general air really better as we finished 15th, 19th, 16th, 16th, 21st (relegated), 16th (old div 2), 18th (old div 2), 21st (relegated to division 3)?
Forgive me, it might be nostalgia. As a young lad in those days, I got goose pimples being anywhere near Villa Park. If you blindfolded me and put me in the ground in the middle of the night, I would know where I was. There was an atmosphere and 'feel' about it that I have never forgotten.
I have a theory that some time between getting promoted in 1975 and winning the league we lost our mystique. Maybe it's because people really hadn't studied us closely before then; we were more myth than reality.
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Look at the voting in the poll above. Thank fuck there are enough of us who can see the wider picture and aren't just perenially angry and wanting to show it, regardless of the cost.
Then you can enjoy paying your money in the Championship with all the other people clever enough to see the wider picture. Well done you. And thank god we didn't get Big Sam eh, phew, bullet dodged there.
You act like those of us who disagree with you either don't think we are at risk of relegation, or actually want to go into the Championship. As if we've not noticed how shit results are.
The fact is, you were shouting for Big Sam, who may or may not have kept us up at that point, without thinking that that would have meant being lumbered with him for the foreseeable future.
You yourself would then have turned out to be the very first person calling for his head when we witnessed his neanderthal brand of "football" the following season.
Risso, you were in the wanting Lambert in the summer camp. And you were just as big a critic of McLeish as anyone, including his organisation. Second half of last season was just as bad as this and at times worse. At least we had 16 attempts today!
The only thing today showed second half is that there is a bit of fight there, which until today I had not seen. They showed there is still a bit of passion, and need to keep that going next week against Albion.
And when we lose that, you'll be in the "out" camp as you said in your post after the Bradford game. So we agree really, you're just a bit slow to catch up! ;)
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I'm not sure that Risso's ability to come up with decent alternatives has any bearing on whether Lambert should stay or go. I'm sure Lerner and Faulkner could come up with someone they thought was suitable. "Here he is guys... Sir Clive Woodward. Er no, sorry. Sir Clive Sinclair!"
Quite, so we sack Lambert, and who chooses his successor? Randy and his sidekick, the Boy Blunder.
There are two seperate issues here.
1. Does he deserve the sack?
2. Is sacking him the best course of action for us right now?
On 1., yes, if you look at recent results especially, that's a record that gets managers the sack.
On 2, no, I don't think it is. For a start, I don't trust our fuckwit of an owner to not do something totally, totally stupid, on a McLeish stupidity level. I also think that the main constricting factor currently is not the manager, and changing him is far from a guarantee that you will improve things. The chance to add to the squad and improve under Lambert seems, to me, to be the better option than to take our chances under whoever Lerner decides to appoint next.
What fucks me off is this view that if you agree with my point re point 2, you've somehow not noticed the shit results, and all the other badness referred to in the first point.
Of course we fucking have. That's what has wrecked our weekends for months. Years, in fact, by and large. We're not fucking stupid. We (a lot of us) thought McLeish was shit, too, but we're not sufficiently stupid to think "well, at least he's not McLeish" is a good reason to keep him on.
That is what gets on my tits.
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I started going to the Villa in '77 and I've never seen a Villa team as bad as this. If others on here think that's being OTT so be it, but that's what I honestly think. I had a season ticket last time we went down and we were nowhere near as poor as we are now. We've been humiliated so many times this season I've lost count. Last season was nothing compared to this disaster.
Maybe we should just shout at you and call you deluded, like you do anyone who doesn't follow your line?
Don't be silly.
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Was the general air really better as we finished 15th, 19th, 16th, 16th, 21st (relegated), 16th (old div 2), 18th (old div 2), 21st (relegated to division 3)?
Forgive me, it might be nostalgia. As a young lad in those days, I got goose pimples being anywhere near Villa Park. If you blindfolded me and put me in the ground in the middle of the night, I would know where I was. There was an atmosphere and 'feel' about it that I have never forgotten.
I have a theory that some time between getting promoted in 1975 and winning the league we lost our mystique. Maybe it's because people really hadn't studied us closely before then; we were more myth than reality.
For me, I thought we were at our most glamorous in that period from 77-79 or so. We had a kind of swagger that may or may not have been merited, but as a kid, I definitely felt it.
I think you also have to remember, though, when talking about the past, that football is so different now. It's hard to get goosepimples about football at all, because it is all so sterile, anodyne and increasingly elitist.
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I started going to the Villa in '77 and I've never seen a Villa team as bad as this. If others on here think that's being OTT so be it, but that's what I honestly think. I had a season ticket last time we went down and we were nowhere near as poor as we are now. We've been humiliated so many times this season I've lost count. Last season was nothing compared to this disaster.
Maybe we should just shout at you and call you deluded, like you do anyone who doesn't follow your line?
Don't be silly.
Why not?
That's what you seem to do all the time recently.
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Lambert looks like a broken man. His body language doesn't help at all.
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Look at the voting in the poll above. Thank fuck there are enough of us who can see the wider picture and aren't just perenially angry and wanting to show it, regardless of the cost.
Then you can enjoy paying your money in the Championship with all the other people clever enough to see the wider picture. Well done you. And thank god we didn't get Big Sam eh, phew, bullet dodged there.
You act like those of us who disagree with you either don't think we are at risk of relegation, or actually want to go into the Championship. As if we've not noticed how shit results are.
The fact is, you were shouting for Big Sam, who may or may not have kept us up at that point, without thinking that that would have meant being lumbered with him for the foreseeable future.
You yourself would then have turned out to be the very first person calling for his head when we witnessed his neanderthal brand of "football" the following season.
Actually I like Big Sam, and the game I saw the other day when Cole made his debut was far better footballing wise than anything we've managed this season.
Now I know you've totally lost the plot.
It'd take about five games of his brand of football at Villa Park and you'd be there with the rest of us, razor blades poised on wrist.
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I'm not sure that Risso's ability to come up with decent alternatives has any bearing on whether Lambert should stay or go. I'm sure Lerner and Faulkner could come up with someone they thought was suitable. "Here he is guys... Sir Clive Woodward. Er no, sorry. Sir Clive Sinclair!"
Quite, so we sack Lambert, and who chooses his successor? Randy and his sidekick, the Boy Blunder.
There are two seperate issues here.
1. Does he deserve the sack?
2. Is sacking him the best course of action for us right now?
On 1., yes, if you look at recent results especially, that's a record that gets managers the sack.
On 2, no, I don't think it is. For a start, I don't trust our fuckwit of an owner to not do something totally, totally stupid, on a McLeish stupidity level. I also think that the main constricting factor currently is not the manager, and changing him is far from a guarantee that you will improve things. The chance to add to the squad and improve under Lambert seems, to me, to be the better option than to take our chances under whoever Lerner decides to appoint next.
What fucks me off is this view that if you agree with my point re point 2, you've somehow not noticed the shit results, and all the other badness referred to in the first point.
Of course we fucking have. That's what has wrecked our weekends for months. Years, in fact, by and large. We're not fucking stupid. We (a lot of us) thought McLeish was shit, too, but we're not sufficiently stupid to think "well, at least he's not McLeish" is a good reason to keep him on.
That is what gets on my tits.
So if he deserves the sack, what evidence is there that keeping him is the right thing to do?
Do we look organised under him? No.
Do the players have any confidence under him? No.
Having lost at home to our immediate relegation rivals Wigan and Southampton, can we be confident that we'll win any more games this season? No.
Is Lambert likely to sign anybody that will make a difference? No.
So, with that, what's the reason for keeping him, other than saving a couple of million quid? He might have bought some of the players, but they surely aren't performing for him. Of the teams who have replaced their managers, Chelsea and QPR, both have improved since changing. Maybe the same would happen to us.
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Quite, so we sack Lambert, and who chooses his successor? Randy and his sidekick, the Boy Blunder.
There are two seperate issues here.
1. Does he deserve the sack?
2. Is sacking him the best course of action for us right now?
On 1., yes, if you look at recent results especially, that's a record that gets managers the sack.
On 2, no, I don't think it is. For a start, I don't trust our fuckwit of an owner to not do something totally, totally stupid, on a McLeish stupidity level. I also think that the main constricting factor currently is not the manager, and changing him is far from a guarantee that you will improve things. The chance to add to the squad and improve under Lambert seems, to me, to be the better option than to take our chances under whoever Lerner decides to appoint next.
What fucks me off is this view that if you agree with my point re point 2, you've somehow not noticed the shit results, and all the other badness referred to in the first point.
Of course we fucking have. That's what has wrecked our weekends for months. Years, in fact, by and large. We're not fucking stupid. We (a lot of us) thought McLeish was shit, too, but we're not sufficiently stupid to think "well, at least he's not McLeish" is a good reason to keep him on.
That is what gets on my tits.
I don't disagree with you. All I'm saying is that if they are going to sack him now would be the best time to do it - as opposed to after the end of the transfer window.
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I started going to the Villa in '77 and I've never seen a Villa team as bad as this. If others on here think that's being OTT so be it, but that's what I honestly think. I had a season ticket last time we went down and we were nowhere near as poor as we are now. We've been humiliated so many times this season I've lost count. Last season was nothing compared to this disaster.
Maybe we should just shout at you and call you deluded, like you do anyone who doesn't follow your line?
Don't be silly.
Why not?
That's what you seem to do all the time recently.
You mentioned the holocaust earlier. That's hardly grown up.
Let's just agree to disagree.
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I'm not sure that Risso's ability to come up with decent alternatives has any bearing on whether Lambert should stay or go. I'm sure Lerner and Faulkner could come up with someone they thought was suitable. "Here he is guys... Sir Clive Woodward. Er no, sorry. Sir Clive Sinclair!"
Quite, so we sack Lambert, and who chooses his successor? Randy and his sidekick, the Boy Blunder.
There are two seperate issues here.
1. Does he deserve the sack?
2. Is sacking him the best course of action for us right now?
On 1., yes, if you look at recent results especially, that's a record that gets managers the sack.
On 2, no, I don't think it is. For a start, I don't trust our fuckwit of an owner to not do something totally, totally stupid, on a McLeish stupidity level. I also think that the main constricting factor currently is not the manager, and changing him is far from a guarantee that you will improve things. The chance to add to the squad and improve under Lambert seems, to me, to be the better option than to take our chances under whoever Lerner decides to appoint next.
What fucks me off is this view that if you agree with my point re point 2, you've somehow not noticed the shit results, and all the other badness referred to in the first point.
Of course we fucking have. That's what has wrecked our weekends for months. Years, in fact, by and large. We're not fucking stupid. We (a lot of us) thought McLeish was shit, too, but we're not sufficiently stupid to think "well, at least he's not McLeish" is a good reason to keep him on.
That is what gets on my tits.
So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?
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I started going to the Villa in '77 and I've never seen a Villa team as bad as this. If others on here think that's being OTT so be it, but that's what I honestly think. I had a season ticket last time we went down and we were nowhere near as poor as we are now. We've been humiliated so many times this season I've lost count. Last season was nothing compared to this disaster.
Maybe we should just shout at you and call you deluded, like you do anyone who doesn't follow your line?
Don't be silly.
Why not?
That's what you seem to do all the time recently.
You mentioned the holocaust earlier. That's hardly grown up.
Let's just agree to disagree.
I mentioned it light heartedly to suggest people put it in perspective.
I disagree with you, yes. What I am not going to do is start screaming "deluded" at you every half an hour.
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So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?
Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.
If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.
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Look at the voting in the poll above. Thank fuck there are enough of us who can see the wider picture and aren't just perenially angry and wanting to show it, regardless of the cost.
Then you can enjoy paying your money in the Championship with all the other people clever enough to see the wider picture. Well done you. And thank god we didn't get Big Sam eh, phew, bullet dodged there.
You act like those of us who disagree with you either don't think we are at risk of relegation, or actually want to go into the Championship. As if we've not noticed how shit results are.
The fact is, you were shouting for Big Sam, who may or may not have kept us up at that point, without thinking that that would have meant being lumbered with him for the foreseeable future.
You yourself would then have turned out to be the very first person calling for his head when we witnessed his neanderthal brand of "football" the following season.
Actually I like Big Sam, and the game I saw the other day when Cole made his debut was far better footballing wise than anything we've managed this season.
Now I know you've totally lost the plot.
It'd take about five games of his brand of football at Villa Park and you'd be there with the rest of us, razor blades poised on wrist.
No I wouldn't I'm afraid. Nothing is worse than losing to the likes of Wigan and Southampton at home. And did you see our game against Bradford? It was hoofball that would have made Pulis blush, but he was even bad at that and was out-thought by a 4th division manager, just as he has been by nearly every other Premier League manager this season. West ham are a set of fans who traditionally like their football played in the right way. Do you think that they'd swap Allardyce for Lambert, who even when Norwich were doing OK were only really playing a similar brand to us under O'Neill. It was hardly total football.
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Was the general air really better as we finished 15th, 19th, 16th, 16th, 21st (relegated), 16th (old div 2), 18th (old div 2), 21st (relegated to division 3)?
Forgive me, it might be nostalgia. As a young lad in those days, I got goose pimples being anywhere near Villa Park. If you blindfolded me and put me in the ground in the middle of the night, I would know where I was. There was an atmosphere and 'feel' about it that I have never forgotten.
Nostalgia and being a young lad,I'm afraid. Wolves,Albion and eventually Blues were much better than us and no hope nor atmosphere until the false dawn of the 'Doc'.
The book ,'Children of the Revolution', is a wonderful recall of those days and especially the fight back.
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I started going to the Villa in '77 and I've never seen a Villa team as bad as this. If others on here think that's being OTT so be it, but that's what I honestly think. I had a season ticket last time we went down and we were nowhere near as poor as we are now. We've been humiliated so many times this season I've lost count. Last season was nothing compared to this disaster.
Maybe we should just shout at you and call you deluded, like you do anyone who doesn't follow your line?
Don't be silly.
Why not?
That's what you seem to do all the time recently.
You mentioned the holocaust earlier. That's hardly grown up.
Let's just agree to disagree.
I mentioned it light heartedly to suggest people put it in perspective.
I disagree with you, yes. What I am not going to do is start screaming "deluded" at you every half an hour.
I don't scream and I don't shout. You don't think things are quite as bad as I do. As I said earlier, let's leave it at that.
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So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?
Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.
If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.
There's no money coming. At least not for lambert. An experienced manager could maybe get us out of the shit by organasing us to the extent where a clean sheet wasn't an impossibility. We certainly wouldn't be the worse side thats ever stayed up
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So, with that, what's the reason for keeping him, other than saving a couple of million quid? He might have bought some of the players, but they surely aren't performing for him. Of the teams who have replaced their managers, Chelsea and QPR, both have improved since changing. Maybe the same would happen to us.
The fact that he's overseen the player scouting we've done until now, and that if we have money for players, he'll be spending it based on that.
The fact that this season we have seen evidence of improvement - I know you think everything is shit, but I disagree entirely, it hasn't all been shit, far from it. Even today and at Bradford, we managed to play some decent stuff.
I can look at that team today and identify three positions we need to strengthen in. We could probably get the right people in for less than 10m combined. I firmly believe that, poor though we are, a small injection of players in the right place would improve us by an order of magnitude.
Also, Chelsea have improved, but are fortunate to have a squad of world class players to start with. QPR have improved, but from a starting point that made us look like Chelsea. I could point out loads of examples where teams have sacked their manager and it has resulted in even worse results. It is far from a guaranteed route to improvement.
Those are my opinions, I know you disagree, it just fucks me off that you think there can possibly be no argument against sacking him.
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So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?
Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.
If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.
There's no money coming. At least not for lambert. An experienced manager could maybe get us out of the shit by organsing us to the extent where a clean sheet wasn't an impossibility. We certainly wouldn't be the worse side thats ever stayed up
If there's no money, full stop, then we are fucked, end of. It's that simple.
If he's holding back money because he doesn't trust Lambert, yet not sacking him, then he's a fucking moron.
You have got to back him, or you sack him.
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So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?
Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.
If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.
There's no money coming. At least not for lambert. An experienced manager could maybe get us out of the shit by organsing us to the extent where a clean sheet wasn't an impossibility. We certainly wouldn't be the worse side thats ever stayed up
If there's no money, full stop, then we are fucked, end of. It's that simple.
If he's holding back money because he doesn't trust Lambert, yet not sacking him, then he's a fucking moron.
You have got to back him, or you sack him.
Agree again Paulie. Whatever the scenario is withholding money is absolute madness.
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So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?
Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.
If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.
There's no money coming. At least not for lambert. An experienced manager could maybe get us out of the shit by organsing us to the extent where a clean sheet wasn't an impossibility. We certainly wouldn't be the worse side thats ever stayed up
If there's no money, full stop, then we are fucked, end of. It's that simple.
If he's holding back money because he doesn't trust Lambert, yet not sacking him, then he's a fucking moron.
You have got to back him, or you sack him.
Agree again Paulie. Whatever the scenario is withholding money is absolute madness.
And if we have none we're fucked anyway.
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So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?
Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.
If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.
There's no money coming. At least not for lambert. An experienced manager could maybe get us out of the shit by organsing us to the extent where a clean sheet wasn't an impossibility. We certainly wouldn't be the worse side thats ever stayed up
If there's no money, full stop, then we are fucked, end of. It's that simple.
If he's holding back money because he doesn't trust Lambert, yet not sacking him, then he's a fucking moron.
You have got to back him, or you sack him.
I think a decent bit of organisation and motivation would at least allow us to compete on even terms. Lambert isn't providing that, a new man might.
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If we've no money we're going down. I wonder if there's anyone at the club that would actually say that to Lerner? Long time staff perhaps- or are they all just Faulkner style 'yes men'?
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I think a decent bit of organisation and motivation would at least allow us to compete on even terms. Lambert isn't providing that, a new man might.
I don't.
The squad is feeble, way too weak, and confidence is disintegrating week on week.
A bit of organisation is nothing like enough. We need players in, and if we don't get them this window, then we are done for.
See, you've out-happy-clapped me. That's how grim things are.
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If we've no money we're going down. I wonder if there's anyone at the club that would actually say that to Lerner? Long time staff perhaps- or are they all just Faulkner style 'yes men'?
I can't believe he hasn't worked it out for himself. Really, can he be that dim?
Mind you, he probably doesn't watch the matches any more (and who can blame him), so maybe he doesn't know.
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If we've no money we're going down. I wonder if there's anyone at the club that would actually say that to Lerner? Long time staff perhaps- or are they all just Faulkner style 'yes men'?
I can't believe he hasn't worked it out for himself. Really, can he be that dim?
Mind you, he probably doesn't watch the matches any more (and who can blame him), so maybe he doesn't know.
He's probably sat in his Hamptons restaurant trying to shake off that feeling that there's something important he's forgotten to do, before returning to perusing the private jet catalogue and the Forbes list.
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So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?
Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.
If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.
There's no money coming. At least not for lambert. An experienced manager could maybe get us out of the shit by organsing us to the extent where a clean sheet wasn't an impossibility. We certainly wouldn't be the worse side thats ever stayed up
If there's no money, full stop, then we are fucked, end of. It's that simple.
If he's holding back money because he doesn't trust Lambert, yet not sacking him, then he's a fucking moron.
You have got to back him, or you sack him.
I don't agree. On paper (yeah i know) we're not the worse team in the league or even the 3rd worst. We're playing like that because the young players have totally lost faith in Lambert and the older players never had it in the first place. Throwing money at it would be nice but its not going to happen so we need someone who's gonna come in, organise us, lift morale and convince the players they're not doomed to relegation which at the moment they seem to believe is odds on by their body language. 6m or someone who the players believe in? I'd take the latter,.
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Completely agree Greg.
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The squad is feeble, way too weak, and confidence is disintegrating week on week.
A bit of organisation is nothing like enough. We need players in, and if we don't get them this window, then we are done for.
Yep, with things as they are we are fucked. I honestly think that there isn't a team in the league who aren't good enough to beat us comfortably so sapped our players are of confidence.
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When fit Vlaar, Bent, Ireland, N'Zog, Dunne and Warnock should all be in the team. No questions now, we need players who will do the job.
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So, with that, what's the reason for keeping him, other than saving a couple of million quid? He might have bought some of the players, but they surely aren't performing for him. Of the teams who have replaced their managers, Chelsea and QPR, both have improved since changing. Maybe the same would happen to us.
The fact that he's overseen the player scouting we've done until now, and that if we have money for players, he'll be spending it based on that.
The fact that this season we have seen evidence of improvement - I know you think everything is shit, but I disagree entirely, it hasn't all been shit, far from it. Even today and at Bradford, we managed to play some decent stuff.
I can look at that team today and identify three positions we need to strengthen in. We could probably get the right people in for less than 10m combined. I firmly believe that, poor though we are, a small injection of players in the right place would improve us by an order of magnitude.
Also, Chelsea have improved, but are fortunate to have a squad of world class players to start with. QPR have improved, but from a starting point that made us look like Chelsea. I could point out loads of examples where teams have sacked their manager and it has resulted in even worse results. It is far from a guaranteed route to improvement.
Those are my opinions, I know you agree, it just fucks me off that you think there can possibly be no argument against sacking him.
So right.His signings,value wise are better than the previous 3. He has suffered injury wise and inherited a very poor squad which was on a downward spiral.Most fans wanted rid of Hutton,Dunne,Warnock and Collins and some now want those players back despite a disruptive influence amongst some of them.
Sack Lambert,I would disagree,but who would replace him ? RDM won the CL. Tony Barton won the European Cup,nice guy but not a manager.
With Lambert we could get relegated,fair chance with the lack of support from the board.Bring in someone else to avoid relegation,no names from those who suggest his sacking.Why keep creating unrest,what's so wrong with stability and belief and having a plan forward ? Aren't Lowton ,Westwood and Benteke good young players ?
For too many years, I followed Villa who were hamstrung by a penny pinching board and the time when I thought we would be back as a successful club was when we won the Youth Cup at Anfield when we were in Div 3. Still got a tight fisted and short sighted board but the management team have vision and previous pedigree.
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Was the general air really better as we finished 15th, 19th, 16th, 16th, 21st (relegated), 16th (old div 2), 18th (old div 2), 21st (relegated to division 3)?
Forgive me, it might be nostalgia. As a young lad in those days, I got goose pimples being anywhere near Villa Park. If you blindfolded me and put me in the ground in the middle of the night, I would know where I was. There was an atmosphere and 'feel' about it that I have never forgotten.
I have a theory that some time between getting promoted in 1975 and winning the league we lost our mystique. Maybe it's because people really hadn't studied us closely before then; we were more myth than reality.
Lot of truth in that. I'd say somewhere around 78/79 when we had a few finishes around 8th (Tommy Craig era?) before regrouping for what probably turned out to be one last hurrah for a great club.
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Quite, so we sack Lambert, and who chooses his successor? Randy and his sidekick, the Boy Blunder.
There are two seperate issues here.
1. Does he deserve the sack?
2. Is sacking him the best course of action for us right now?
On 1., yes, if you look at recent results especially, that's a record that gets managers the sack.
On 2, no, I don't think it is. For a start, I don't trust our fuckwit of an owner to not do something totally, totally stupid, on a McLeish stupidity level. I also think that the main constricting factor currently is not the manager, and changing him is far from a guarantee that you will improve things. The chance to add to the squad and improve under Lambert seems, to me, to be the better option than to take our chances under whoever Lerner decides to appoint next.
What fucks me off is this view that if you agree with my point re point 2, you've somehow not noticed the shit results, and all the other badness referred to in the first point.
Of course we fucking have. That's what has wrecked our weekends for months. Years, in fact, by and large. We're not fucking stupid. We (a lot of us) thought McLeish was shit, too, but we're not sufficiently stupid to think "well, at least he's not McLeish" is a good reason to keep him on.
That is what gets on my tits.
I don't disagree with you. All I'm saying is that if they are going to sack him now would be the best time to do it - as opposed to after the end of the transfer window.
That's right. Got to back him or sack him right now for us to have any chance of surviving. Doing nothing is not an option.
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So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?
Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.
If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.
There's no money coming. At least not for lambert. An experienced manager could maybe get us out of the shit by organsing us to the extent where a clean sheet wasn't an impossibility. We certainly wouldn't be the worse side thats ever stayed up
If there's no money, full stop, then we are fucked, end of. It's that simple.
If he's holding back money because he doesn't trust Lambert, yet not sacking him, then he's a fucking moron.
You have got to back him, or you sack him.
I think a decent bit of organisation and motivation would at least allow us to compete on even terms. Lambert isn't providing that, a new man might.
How would a manager organise this squad any differently?
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After today, slightly back on his side.
We shouldn't have lost and the defending leading to the penalty was nothing he could deal with. That was worse than Sunday league standards.
Not sure how we didn't score.
However, the reason he's got me back on side a little was that he stayed on the touch line throughout and showed he cared about what was happening, something I hadn't seen so much recently.
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The biggest problem is the quality of the players: except Reading, Southampton and maybe Wigan we have the worst squad in the Premier League. The other teams around us -- QPR, Newcastle, Sunderland, Fulham -- have several players that would have walked into this side.
Adding to this problem is that Lambert doesn't seem to do organisation. He makes the players work hard -- witness the end of the second half yesterday -- allthough they sometimes seem to give up because of a lack of confidence. Any sort of defensive organisation or tactical game plan has been hard to spot under Lambert's reign.
I'm still saying that we should stick with him. There is little doubt that the constant changing of managers since MON left has contributed significantly to our decline. Lambert has performed admirably before he came here -- thus it's improbable that his management is the prime reason that we are so poor. Also with so little football knowledge on the Villa board, I don't trust them to appoint some competent.
So the most realistic way to avoid relegation is to keep Lambert and add two or three players who can walk straight into the side.
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If they were to sack Lambert then right now is the optimum time to do it. Half a season still to go, half a transfer window to do a few deals. It's not in their nature though, seemingly, to act decisively or swiftly.
Why is it?
Half a transfer window is two weeks plus a few days. In that time we need to get the new man in, hope to fuck he's spent the last few months scouting rather than sitting watching SSN all day, and pray he can do some business in the few days he'll have left.
Lambert has said he's unlikely to get anybody else in, and said on the BBC that today's result doesn't change that. We're therefore left with a decision - who's going to best organise the team to stay up; Lambert who been spectacularly shit to date, or somebody else. If somebody is definitely going to take us down, then surely it's worth a shot on somebody else. And there's no point in complaining that we've only two weeks of the window left, when you were arguing the same none-reasons for keeping Lambert two weeks ago when a new man would have had time to at least look at a few loans.
If randy is going to pull the trigger on lambert it must be in the next 48 hours , there is no point doing it after the window closes , two weeks is long enough to do business if the new man is available to come straight in.
It's now or never randy.
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Lambert on brink
Last Updated: 13th January 2013
PAUL LAMBERT’S future was on a knife-edge last night.
His Aston Villa side plunged into the drop zone after losing 1-0 to Southampton.
The Villa boss said: “We’re in the bottom three but we can’t panic. I couldn’t fault the second-half effort, the chances we had and the way they went about it.
“There’s a long, long way to go. There will be loads of twists and turns in this whole thing.”
The beleaguered Villa boss could do nothing to prevent his side plunging into the drop zone as Saints striker Rickie Lambert’s controversial 34th-minute penalty earned Nigel Adkins’ side a crucial away win.
The defeat left Lambo eight points WORSE off than predecessor Alex McLeish was at this stage last season, when Big Eck managed to avoid the drop by two points.
To add to Lambo’s woes, he could also face an FA disrepute charge claiming ref Mark Halsey would be “embarrassed”, when he sees a re-run of his decision to award Saints a first-half penalty.
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The bloke is in denial and relying purely on luck and chance. The early part of the season did have twists and turns, but since Dec 23rd, the only turn has been for the worse and there seems to be no appetite to arrest it.
I know fans rely on hope, but the manager shouldn't.
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After today, slightly back on his side.
We shouldn't have lost and the defending leading to the penalty was nothing he could deal with. That was worse than Sunday league standards.
Not sure how we didn't score.
However, the reason he's got me back on side a little was that he stayed on the touch line throughout and showed he cared about what was happening, something I hadn't seen so much recently.
Our defending before the 'penalty' was comical, we were slow on the counter and had it not been for there striker being a bit slow when he was through on goal (at least three times) it coud ave been 0-3 or 0-4. Lambert seamed to bing Gabby on because the crowd were asking for him, our set pieces are rubbish and our midfield absent. I was also a bit confused as to what Hollman and Wieman were doing? Weimann defending on the left and Hollman forward in the middle?
But it's ok, because Lambert was active on the touchline.
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No real suggestion in that article of him bein on a knife edge really
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I don't think I've ever been more embarassed of our club than i was at Spurs away last year.
That was awful, but this current run of matches is more humiliating by a factor of about a million. I can't walk into town without meeting at least five people taking the piss out of how bad we are, and probably get about as many piss taking messages on Facebook everyday. We're a national disgrace and laughing stock at the moment.
Really? Fuck me, you must have a different set of values to me,
I can think of loads of runs of matches when we've got shit results and I've put up with piss taking when it has gone badly, but that surrender at White Hart Lane was truly humiliating. It was us clearly not even trying.
At least now we're trying. I can't believe you think the current run is worse, let alone "a million times worse".
Paulie, I almost always agree with what you say and while I hated McLeish's anti-football, you can't say that losing 0-8, 0-4, 0-3 and having broken all sorts of negative records in the same season is anything other than embarrassing.
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Losing is one thing, seen more than enough of those. Surrendering before kick off against fucking Spurzzz of all people was unforgivable.
TSM and Houllier before him surrendering matches did the club a huge amount of damage imo. We didn't just look 2nd rate, we acted like it too.
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So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?
Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.
If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.
There's no money coming. At least not for lambert. An experienced manager could maybe get us out of the shit by organsing us to the extent where a clean sheet wasn't an impossibility. We certainly wouldn't be the worse side thats ever stayed up
If there's no money, full stop, then we are fucked, end of. It's that simple.
If he's holding back money because he doesn't trust Lambert, yet not sacking him, then he's a fucking moron.
You have got to back him, or you sack him.
I have to disagree again. Far worse teams than ours have stayed up. When you actually look at our squad, there's some decent players in there.
Guzan
Vlaar
Lowton
Baker
Bannan
Westwood
Weimann
Benteke
Gabby
Bent
A lot of these are his players (I think he has an excellent eye for talent) and some have been injured but there's no way you can look at that squad and say it's hopeless, no-one could keep them up.
Get these lot organised, in a proper formation and get them motivated and they'd be well clear of relegation. Look at the strikers alone, there's quality there.
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I don't think GH surrendered he was just trying to get the squad to do things they weren't capable of doing and they didn't like him. Mcleish will always be a bastard
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So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?
Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.
If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.
There's no money coming. At least not for lambert. An experienced manager could maybe get us out of the shit by organsing us to the extent where a clean sheet wasn't an impossibility. We certainly wouldn't be the worse side thats ever stayed up
If there's no money, full stop, then we are fucked, end of. It's that simple.
If he's holding back money because he doesn't trust Lambert, yet not sacking him, then he's a fucking moron.
You have got to back him, or you sack him.
I think a decent bit of organisation and motivation would at least allow us to compete on even terms. Lambert isn't providing that, a new man might.
How would a manager organise this squad any differently?
Not play 4-2-4?
Get them to do some basic positional work in defence?
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After today, slightly back on his side.
We shouldn't have lost and the defending leading to the penalty was nothing he could deal with. That was worse than Sunday league standards.
Not sure how we didn't score.
However, the reason he's got me back on side a little was that he stayed on the touch line throughout and showed he cared about what was happening, something I hadn't seen so much recently.
I noticed that too, it was good to see, he was kicking every ball with us out there today.
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So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?
Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.
If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.
There's no money coming. At least not for lambert. An experienced manager could maybe get us out of the shit by organsing us to the extent where a clean sheet wasn't an impossibility. We certainly wouldn't be the worse side thats ever stayed up
If there's no money, full stop, then we are fucked, end of. It's that simple.
If he's holding back money because he doesn't trust Lambert, yet not sacking him, then he's a fucking moron.
You have got to back him, or you sack him.
I think a decent bit of organisation and motivation would at least allow us to compete on even terms. Lambert isn't providing that, a new man might.
How would a manager organise this squad any differently?
Not play 4-2-4?
Get them to do some basic positional work in defence?
we need the same as what we have needed since the start of this bad run and that is 2 players, one centre half and one centre midfielder, both experienced.
agree with paulie, he needs to be backed! randy needs to find the money. as to who those two players are, i havent a frigging clue, but if we get 2 you might as well go the whole hog and get real quality!
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I don't think GH surrendered he was just trying to get the squad to do things they weren't capable of doing and they didn't like him. Mcleish will always be a bastard
Phil I give you Man City away x 2 and dont even get me started on the olive branch to his beloved Liverpool. Even TSM didn't manage to lose to Wolves at home.
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I don't think GH surrendered he was just trying to get the squad to do things they weren't capable of doing and they didn't like him. Mcleish will always be a bastard
GH routinely surrendered and admitted as much.
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As i said a few days ago, this season reminds me a lot of GH's season. GH had a long term plan and you could see what he was trying to do but in the short term he made a pigs ear of it, even if he did have an outrageous injury list to contend with.
Same with Lambert. You can see what his plan is long term but again he's making such hard work of it. Whether we're going down or not i don't know but sooner or later we're going to have to stick with a manager and give him two or three seasons. Whether that'll be Lambert remains to be seen.
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As i said a few days ago, this season reminds me a lot of GH's season. GH had a long term plan and you could see what he was trying to do but in the short term he made a pigs ear of it, even if he did have an outrageous injury list to contend with.
Same with Lambert. You can see what his plan is long term but again he's making such hard work of it. Whether we're going down or not i don't know but sooner or later we're going to have to stick with a manager and give him two or three seasons. Whether that'll be Lambert remains to be seen.
You might be able to see his plan, but I can't.
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His plan appears to be put out an attacking team on paper that in reality offers nothing going forward and is exposed at the back, especially the fullbacks who are being left hung out to try at the moment.
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No system will work with the midfield we have.
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As i said a few days ago, this season reminds me a lot of GH's season. GH had a long term plan and you could see what he was trying to do but in the short term he made a pigs ear of it, even if he did have an outrageous injury list to contend with.
Same with Lambert. You can see what his plan is long term but again he's making such hard work of it. Whether we're going down or not i don't know but sooner or later we're going to have to stick with a manager and give him two or three seasons. Whether that'll be Lambert remains to be seen.
You might be able to see his plan, but I can't.
I presume his plan is bringing in promising youngsters which in a few years time will form the base of a really good side. The likes of Lowton, Westwood and Benteke have a lot of promise but they're not quite ready yet. We all know he should have brought experience to play alongside them and that's where he's messed up.
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As i said a few days ago, this season reminds me a lot of GH's season. GH had a long term plan and you could see what he was trying to do but in the short term he made a pigs ear of it, even if he did have an outrageous injury list to contend with.
Same with Lambert. You can see what his plan is long term but again he's making such hard work of it. Whether we're going down or not i don't know but sooner or later we're going to have to stick with a manager and give him two or three seasons. Whether that'll be Lambert remains to be seen.
Well, I agree that sticking with a manager for a period of time would be great, no doubt at all, but for the life of me I can't see what Lambert's long-term plan is. Or at least, if it's buying 'young, hungry' players from the lower leagues, then it isn't working by some distance.
I can't see a real reason for keeping him beyond the idea of some sort of continuity, but continuation if being shit is far from ideal.
As others have said, if there were signs that he was improving things, that players were getting better, that the tactics were capable of getting results, then great. But I don't think there is, so we might as well try something different. It almost certainly couldn't get worse, at worst it would just be as bad.
People might scoff at, say, Allardyce, but I honestly think that if he were in charge of our team right now, we'd be doing better than we are (and for what it's worth, I really don't care about football 'being played the right way', whatever that means). Drilling the defence, parking the bus, whatever, doesn't have to mean McLeish style football - it means concentrating on the basics, and finding a way to win. Going 'toe-to-toe' with Chelsea, Spurs etc was madness, doubly so given the quality of players we have right now. And bizarrely, when we probably could have outplayed someone (Bradford), the tactic seemed to be 'lump it'.
It's a shame, and I'd be as disappointed as anyone about further upheaval, but I just think we have to halt the current slide - Hell, even just changing the press and the mood about the club at the moment could help.
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I really don't understand the logic of keeping a manager just because it hasn't worked with other managers previously . We've only actually sacked one manager Mon walked and GH got ill. Keeping a manager that is proving to be utterly imcompetent just because we've been unlucky with previous ones seems crazy to me
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Lamberts dour tone doesn't make it any better either. I know it's only superficial but when we're on a stinking run and breaking all the wrong kinds of records his boring hum drum monotenous voice just seems to sum up everything about the club at the moment.
I can't imagine him firing the players up with a team talk.
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In. He was the right manager when we appointed him, he still is the right manager.
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Unless Its Pep coming in , not point getting rid but christ , we have been shite
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In (just). It's the players, we urgently need some better and experienced ones in the team.
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I think if you play the system we did yesterday, the three behind the front man have to help the midfield. Our three didn't help at all, and Holman was horrendous.
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In. He was the right manager when we appointed him, he still is the right manager.
How is he?
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In. He was the right manager when we appointed him, he still is the right manager.
How is he?
Well 3,000 sang his name at Carrow Road last May so if Lerner has got it wrong, then so did 3,000 others.
I still think there's a a decent manager there, he proved it at Norwich but i can't argue with the fact that we look bloody woeful at the moment.
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As i said a few days ago, this season reminds me a lot of GH's season
It reminds me of Clough's final season when Forest went down, by his own admittance he hadn't got a clue how to get out of it and looked like a rabbit caught in headlights at every game.
Clough's judgement had gone so much to shit that he decided to Let Teddy Sheringham go, as he believed 'his control on the ball wasn't very good.' - Shades of Lambert with Bent?
Clough was on the pop by this time, not sure about Lambert, but he certainly knows how to slur his words.
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On Goals on Sunday, Ben Shepherd 'What's misfiring?' Steve Staunton 'where do you start?'. He's right there's no leadership, and also they're not that young.
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Poyet said if he was manager he'd say it's a dive.
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Didn't realise that Steven's appalling touch lead to the penalty problem as well.
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I'd be very disappointed if he got sacked - we have to get some stability and that means sticking with one man for a few seasons. The luck is against us at the moment but it will turn.
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I'd be very disappointed if he got sacked - we have to get some stability and that means sticking with one man for a few seasons. The luck is against us at the moment but it will turn.
I don't think he should go, but it's not luck against us. It's purely appalling ownership of the club and some poor management and a poor squad that's causing our problems.
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He needs to look at his coaching staff especially the defensive coaches (if we have one) losing every week has drained the players of any confidence.
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I don't think Lambert can keep us up. We look the worst side in the top flight at the minute. We certainly look the most poorly organised. Our side is very inexperienced and that's an excuse, but it's Lamberts own doing. Our squad is poor, made poorer by injuries. We're even worse than last season. Our defence was ill disciplined last season and not great. Seniors didn't perform as they should but it was mediocre, not absolutely abysmal like this season.
We're just as toothless as we were last season too, despite supposedly having let the shackles off. McLeish never showed any ambition whatsoever, Lambert is but is coming up even shorter.
I think we're in a position now where we're heading down. If we take the hit, and miss out on a lot of money next year and revenue, then Randy has to be prepared for that. I do think Lambert long term could do something here, but I don't think he'll ever turn us back to a top 8 club.
Can we afford to go down? From what we hear, maybe not.
I think he has to go now. No dillying because that almost cost us last season. McLeish should have gone with time enough for a new man to turn it around.
Get in some experience. Hopefully enough time for a new man to get 1-2 in who can help steer us away.
QPR took action. They've improved under Redknapp. It may be too little too late, but I think they'll escape to be honest.
We need someone in now. Not RDM. Maybe next season, with a clean slate, but for now, he's not got enough to turn it around.
I personally would take the punt in a new man. If we go down it makes no difference. We can't get any worse and the most telling thing of all is how poorly organised the side is. No one knows what they're doing. They're not good either.
If we have to fork out a bit for a big name manager with a track record for the interim, so be it.
Randy has to weigh the cost of sacking PL and hiring someone else. It's not gonna be as much as the hit of relegation plus the money we'd miss out on next season in the top flight.
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He needs to look at his coaching staff especially the defensive coaches (if we have one) losing every week has drained the players of any confidence.
How can you coach defenders who just aren't up to it though? Clark, Baker and co just aren't PL material. Until the club realises that nothing will change.
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As i said a few days ago, this season reminds me a lot of GH's season. GH had a long term plan and you could see what he was trying to do but in the short term he made a pigs ear of it, even if he did have an outrageous injury list to contend with.
Same with Lambert. You can see what his plan is long term but again he's making such hard work of it. Whether we're going down or not i don't know but sooner or later we're going to have to stick with a manager and give him two or three seasons. Whether that'll be Lambert remains to be seen.
Well, I agree that sticking with a manager for a period of time would be great, no doubt at all, but for the life of me I can't see what Lambert's long-term plan is. Or at least, if it's buying 'young, hungry' players from the lower leagues, then it isn't working by some distance.
I can't see a real reason for keeping him beyond the idea of some sort of continuity, but continuation if being shit is far from ideal.
As others have said, if there were signs that he was improving things, that players were getting better, that the tactics were capable of getting results, then great. But I don't think there is, so we might as well try something different. It almost certainly couldn't get worse, at worst it would just be as bad.
People might scoff at, say, Allardyce, but I honestly think that if he were in charge of our team right now, we'd be doing better than we are (and for what it's worth, I really don't care about football 'being played the right way', whatever that means). Drilling the defence, parking the bus, whatever, doesn't have to mean McLeish style football - it means concentrating on the basics, and finding a way to win. Going 'toe-to-toe' with Chelsea, Spurs etc was madness, doubly so given the quality of players we have right now. And bizarrely, when we probably could have outplayed someone (Bradford), the tactic seemed to be 'lump it'.
It's a shame, and I'd be as disappointed as anyone about further upheaval, but I just think we have to halt the current slide - Hell, even just changing the press and the mood about the club at the moment could help.
Spot on. Even Staunton on Sky just now stated how ridiculous it was at Chelsea to carry on trying to play them at their own game once we were 4-0 down. Lambert has done not a single thing this season to prove that he can hack it at Villa.
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In. He was the right manager when we appointed him, he still is the right manager.
How is he?
Well 3,000 sang his name at Carrow Road last May so if Lerner has got it wrong, then so did 3,000 others.
I still think there's a a decent manager there, he proved it at Norwich but i can't argue with the fact that we look bloody woeful at the moment.
Lerner cannot be blamed for appointing lambert , I also thought it was the best appointment but the situation is so bad now that I think Lerner needs to act now to halt the slide, it's not just injuries or transfers, the tactics, formation and team selections have been baffling at times and I whilst I agree we need to stick with a manager for 3 or 4 years I do believe only if it is the right manager.
For whatever reason this hasn't worked out and the time to act is now while we still have time left in the transfer window.
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If Lambert has been told in the summer of 2012 he can only bring in players on a certain salary then that would explain why he hasn't got the experienced players we desperately need. It may well be that Lambert assessed the squad and thought he needed a fair few players, and the only option was to sign the Westwoods and Lowtons, rather than the Scott Parkers of this world.
Lambert was very quick to get rid of Hutton, he's no fool if he had the choice of Bannan or Scott Parker in midfield do people really think he'd pick Bannan?
I'm not denying he's made some mistakes, but give the guy some credit, he's clearly working with his hands tied behind his back
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If Lambert has been told in the summer of 2012 he can only bring in players on a certain salary then that would explain why he hasn't got the expereinced players we desperately need. It may well be that Lambert assessed the squad and thought he needed a fair few players, and the only option was to sign the Westwoods and Lowtons, rather than the Scott Parkers of this would.
Lambert was very quick to get rid of Hutton, he's no fool if he had the choice of Bannan or Scott Parker in midfield do people really think he'd pick Bannan?
I'm not denying he's made some mistakes, but give the guy some credit, he's clearly working with his hands tied behind his back
Lambert has said often its his decision to go for young hungry players , experience guarantees nothing he said.
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If Lambert has been told in the summer of 2012 he can only bring in players on a certain salary then that would explain why he hasn't got the expereinced players we desperately need. It may well be that Lambert assessed the squad and thought he needed a fair few players, and the only option was to sign the Westwoods and Lowtons, rather than the Scott Parkers of this would.
Lambert was very quick to get rid of Hutton, he's no fool if he had the choice of Bannan or Scott Parker in midfield do people really think he'd pick Bannan?
I'm not denying he's made some mistakes, but give the guy some credit, he's clearly working with his hands tied behind his back
Lambert has said often its his decision to go for young hungry players , experience guarantees nothing he said.
Well he would say that. He took on the job under Lerner's conditions. He's towing the party line and all that.
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What do you mean by 'towing the party line'?
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Whatever happens behind the scenes and whatever agreements he made with Lerner, can't excuse how piss poorly organised we've been on the pitch. I really want Lambert to succeed and really want him to pull it round but as for us putting out sides looking clueless in every area and making bad on the field decisions, he's been the undisputed champion. Not even O Leary or McLeish have been as consistently bad, and that's saying something.
I know we're attempting to place football the right way but there's most of the other sides in the top flight, bar 2-3, want to get the ball down and play primarily. Most of them are doing far more effectively than us.
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If Lambert has been told in the summer of 2012 he can only bring in players on a certain salary then that would explain why he hasn't got the expereinced players we desperately need. It may well be that Lambert assessed the squad and thought he needed a fair few players, and the only option was to sign the Westwoods and Lowtons, rather than the Scott Parkers of this would.
Lambert was very quick to get rid of Hutton, he's no fool if he had the choice of Bannan or Scott Parker in midfield do people really think he'd pick Bannan?
I'm not denying he's made some mistakes, but give the guy some credit, he's clearly working with his hands tied behind his back
Lambert has said often its his decision to go for young hungry players , experience guarantees nothing he said.
Well he would say that. He took on the job under Lerner's conditions. He's towing the party line and all that.
So are you saying lambert is basically just a yes man ?
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What do you mean by 'towing the party line'?
Saying its his decision to buy players from the lower leagues. It's obvious Lerner wants all the top earners off the books, which most of them are by now (I'm sure the rest will follow). It only makes sense that we have to look at lower league players because they are relatively cheap when it comes to salary demands.
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Whatever happens behind the scenes and whatever agreements he made with Lerner, can't excuse how piss poorly organised we've been on the pitch. I really want Lambert to succeed and really want him to pull it round but as for us putting out sides looking clueless in every area and making bad on the field decisions, he's been the undisputed champion. Not even O Leary or McLeish have been as consistently bad, and that's saying something.
I know we're attempting to place football the right way but there's most of the other sides in the top flight, bar 2-3, want to get the ball down and play primarily. Most of them are doing far more effectively than us.
Agreed, nobody wants him to fail but sadly enough is enough , randy needs to be decisive.
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I don't buy this playing the right way rubbish either ..we spend most of the time hoofing it to Benteke for flick on's
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Sack him and then what? With the best will in the world the chances of finding a replacement and him having long enough to assess the squad and then find the players we need and negotiate the deals in less than three weeks are slim.
We desperately need some experience back in the side, players who will organise on the pitch and won't hide when things are going badly. Either Dunne or Vlaar would help sort out the defence but I think we need to buy to strengthen the midfield.
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I don't buy this playing the right way rubbish either ..we spend most of the time hoofing it to Benteke for flick on's
Agreed. We play as much hoof ball as we did last season.
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What do you mean by 'towing the party line'?
Saying its his decision to buy players from the lower leagues. It's obvious Lerner wants all the top earners off the books, which most of them are by now (I'm sure the rest will follow). It only makes sense that we have to look at lower league players because they are relatively cheap when it comes to salary demands.
Not sure about that , lambert is doing similar business to what he did at Norwich but he brought those players into a lower league side and built them up from there- big difference throwing them into a premier league side.
He bought 7 players in the summer and not one of them had ever kicked a ball in the premier league .
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I don't buy this playing the right way rubbish either ..we spend most of the time hoofing it to Benteke for flick on's
Agreed. We play as much hoof ball as we did last season.
And it was played embarrassingly badly against Bradford.
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If Lambert is just towing the party line and covering the Chairmans back with guarded answers to the questions we need need to know then that makes me want him out even more.
We already have a team with no spine, we dont need a manager without one aswell. I'd rather he came out and spoke his mind, tell us what the situation is. All this shit about it would inflate transfer fee's is just bollocks.
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Sack him and then what? With the best will in the world the chances of finding a replacement and him having long enough to assess the squad and then find the players we need and negotiate the deals in less than three weeks are slim.
We desperately need some experience back in the side, players who will organise on the pitch and won't hide when things are going badly. Either Dunne or Vlaar would help sort out the defence but I think we need to buy to strengthen the midfield.
We look dead and buried as things are.
Maybe another gamble is required. What's Hiddink up to these days? Pay someone enough to come in, do the business and leave.
If we bring someone in and we go down, well we were probably going down anyway.
That's my view anyway.
Either that or someone experienced in an advisory role or unofficial DOF role for 5 months, because Lambert seriously needs helps. He's got the right ideas but putting them into practice is proving to be over his head I think.
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Sack him and then what? With the best will in the world the chances of finding a replacement and him having long enough to assess the squad and then find the players we need and negotiate the deals in less than three weeks are slim.
We desperately need some experience back in the side, players who will organise on the pitch and won't hide when things are going badly. Either Dunne or Vlaar would help sort out the defence but I think we need to buy to strengthen the midfield.
I think chris, if randy did sack him he would need a replacement lined up ready to come in as wolves did with Saunders.
There would be no point sacking him unless they already have a replacement lined up ready - I only hope he's on the case as we speak and not sitting on the pot.
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The bottom team in the Premier League next season will pick up more than the £60m in prize money that Man City took home last season. I cannot stress how important it is, now more so than ever to stay in the Premier League. That being the case, surely Lerner can see the case in spending on a couple of top drawer players to ensure we stay up?
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What do you mean by 'towing the party line'?
Saying its his decision to buy players from the lower leagues. It's obvious Lerner wants all the top earners off the books, which most of them are by now (I'm sure the rest will follow). It only makes sense that we have to look at lower league players because they are relatively cheap when it comes to salary demands.
You could also argue that not only a few months ago he was able to bring in a Belgian international and a Dutch international.
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The bottom team in the Premier League next season will pick up more than the £60m in prize money that Man City took home last season. I cannot stress how important it is, now more so than ever to stay in the Premier League. That being the case, surely Lerner can see the case in spending on a couple of top drawer players to ensure we stay up?
What's going on at the Villa makes no sense whatsoever at the moment. I can't fathom the thought process behind the wage bill at the moment.
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The bottom team in the Premier League next season will pick up more than the £60m in prize money that Man City took home last season. I cannot stress how important it is, now more so than ever to stay in the Premier League. That being the case, surely Lerner can see the case in spending on a couple of top drawer players to ensure we stay up?
You'd think so wouldn't you?
But have you seen any evidence up till now that he's remotely got his finger on the pulse of what is wrong at the club?
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The bottom team in the Premier League next season will pick up more than the £60m in prize money that Man City took home last season. I cannot stress how important it is, now more so than ever to stay in the Premier League. That being the case, surely Lerner can see the case in spending on a couple of top drawer players to ensure we stay up?
What's going on at the Villa makes no sense whatsoever at the moment. I can't fathom the thought process behind the wage bill at the moment.
Join the club. I find it hard in todays game that we are paying Championship wages and expecting Premier league performances. Baffled really.
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What do you mean by 'towing the party line'?
Saying its his decision to buy players from the lower leagues. It's obvious Lerner wants all the top earners off the books, which most of them are by now (I'm sure the rest will follow). It only makes sense that we have to look at lower league players because they are relatively cheap when it comes to salary demands.
You could also argue that not only a few months ago he was able to bring in a Belgian international and a Dutch international.
I bet they're on the same kind of relatively cheap wages the rest of the signings are on.
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The bottom team in the Premier League next season will pick up more than the £60m in prize money that Man City took home last season. I cannot stress how important it is, now more so than ever to stay in the Premier League. That being the case, surely Lerner can see the case in spending on a couple of top drawer players to ensure we stay up?
What's going on at the Villa makes no sense whatsoever at the moment. I can't fathom the thought process behind the wage bill at the moment.
Join the club. I find it hard in todays game that we are paying Championship wages and expecting Premier league performances. Baffled really.
maybe his plan is to get us running at a profit on the old money level, so when the new money comes in he can use that to pay himself back.
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What do you mean by 'towing the party line'?
Saying its his decision to buy players from the lower leagues. It's obvious Lerner wants all the top earners off the books, which most of them are by now (I'm sure the rest will follow). It only makes sense that we have to look at lower league players because they are relatively cheap when it comes to salary demands.
What puzzles me I'd why would he leave Norwich to work under such stringent conditions? Unless he really felt he could build his own team from scratch in one season ie He thinks he is a better manager than he actually is
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What do you mean by 'towing the party line'?
Saying its his decision to buy players from the lower leagues. It's obvious Lerner wants all the top earners off the books, which most of them are by now (I'm sure the rest will follow). It only makes sense that we have to look at lower league players because they are relatively cheap when it comes to salary demands.
What puzzles me I'd why would he leave Norwich to work under such stringent conditions? Unless he really felt he could build his own team from scratch in one season ie He thinks he is a better manager than he actually is
Although apparently he didn't get on with Norwich chairman .
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I voted out.
I can't fault the appointment Randy made in Lambert, he had a good pedigree and was my preferred choice- however it just isn't working. I have been patient till now, but enough is enough. I can't see him being able to keep us up. A new manager might struggle also, but they often give a fillip to existing players when the come in, and that might just be the difference between staying up and going down.
If we do go down I can't see Randy changing his 'live within means' policy on wages, so could see us really imploding in the championship.
As for who to bring in - not sure. Think we need a holding appointment till the end of the season. Could consider GT for a third spell. Maybe bring Gary McAllister back. RDM. Hughes.
Anything is worth a try, as we are likely relegated if we don't make a change.
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I voted out.
I can't fault the appointment Randy made in Lambert, he had a good pedigree, and was my preferred choice- however it just isn't working.I have been patient till now, but enough is enough - I can't see him being able to keep us up. A new manager might struggle also, but they often give a fillip to existing players when the come in, and that might just be the difference between staying up and going down.
If we do go down I can't see Randy changing his 'live within means' policy on wages, so could see us really imploding in the championship.
As for who to bring in - not sure. Think we need a holding appointment till the end of the season. Could consider GT for a third spell. Maybe bring Gary McAllister back. RDM. Hughes.
Anything is worth a try, as we are likely relegated if we don't make a change.
Have to admit GT has entered my thoughts a few times. He's not the answer obviously but he knows Aston Villa and short term he'd raise morale, get us organised and deal with the senior players who are taking the piss IMO under Lambert.
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The debate is at times getting personal on here, all I would ask is if people could please try and stay away from calling other people morons, deluded, insane etc.
All opinions matter and are valid, even if you're an idiot for not agreeing with me! ;-)
Clearly we care going through a really hard time, we're having the piss taken out of us all the time and appear to be heading for a possible relegation.
It got nasty on here when DOL was being shit (spell check said shot, which may have been more appropriate!) and I'd ask you to think about the words you use before hitting enter.
I think we all agree that the owner is the root of the problem, let's hope he does something soon. I'd prefer that not to be sacking a manager who has had to pick up the worst squad problems we've had for a long, long time. In my view Lambert is trying to plan a long term way forward, it's not coming off yet though there are patches when it all clicks (just not often enough).
Youth has to be the way forward, but it's naive to expect them to do well without a core of decent, experienced players to steady the ship. I think Lambert did the right thing in getting bad influences, Collins, Warnock etc from the squad, he just needed others to step up, which they have spectacularly failed to do. We need rid of them too.
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I'm not sure sacking the manager again is the right thing to do. We've had numerous managers now all under achieving/not getting the best out the players. I don't think it's a managerial problem anymore. This is something deeper going on at the club. It's the only common denominator. The players are changing now and yet we're still under achieving as a club. Yes we do still have some of the senior lot to get rid of but some of these haven't been anywhere near the first team of late.
This is something in the background or at board level now. We can't keep sacking the manager as each time we do we still end up with the same outcome. This isn't a sack the board post either, I'm just wondering if there's a certain philosophy (from a business perspective) which the club what to stick to that just isn't working.
I'm currently watching the man united game and the way in which they're creating space and playing the game at the moment, we're a million miles away. With the type of football we're playing at the moment, compared to what's on the tv, we are playing championship level football.
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What on earth do you do? It's a bit like being in a Russian Roulette game with five bullets in the gun.
Keep Lambert, and if he does not bring anyone, and in the dire run of results continues, and we go down. And based on his current record of acquisitions can you honestly trust him to bring in the right personnel to turn things round?
Sack him, then who do you get in? Newcastle sacked Allardyce in the January in the season when they were relegated and look what happened? I don't think Di Matteo will come here in a month of Sundays, and unlike Wolves if Lambert did walk/get the boot I don't think they have anyone whatsoever lined up.
We are screwed and can look forward to Cardiff, Forest and Morrisons next door neighbours on the Coventry Road next season, unless they go into administration. Thank McGrath we are not in the same state as that shambles, but shame on Randy for allowing our club to collapse into a laughing stock. >:(
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It's our owner being hopeless that's the main problem, changing the manager won't change that. Unless the owner invests adequately we will never improve.
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Exactly, the way the club have run things in the past, can you see a replacement already lined up before they sacked the manager? I don't. They'll sack him, say they want to do things the right way, short list, conduct interviews etc. it'll be the end of feb before they get a new guy in. By which time the window will be closed and the care taker manager sealing our fate.
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I think the Football Manager's Association would probably advise their members not to take a job at Villa in the present climate.
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After a night's sober reflection, I feel we just need to give him money to spend. He can't be unaware of the problems, everyone can see it. I don't care what he says in the media, either, he's never given anything away on any issue, so I don't expect him to give away his transfer plans either. Sacking him, especially given the track record our owner has of appointees, would raise more questions than answers and, in my view, almost certainly relegate us. The way up for the team is to add some quality (Randy, come on, you can't be blind to this), rally round and show some fight and togetherness. Sacking the manager would lead to the notion of a club in freefall and disarray - and while we may currently be the former, we can prevent the latter.
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After a night's sober reflection, I feel we just need to give him money to spend. He can't be unaware of the problems, everyone can see it. I don't care what he says in the media, either, he's never given anything away on any issue, so I don't expect him to give away his transfer plans either. Sacking him, especially given the track record our owner has of appointees, would raise more questions than answers and, in my view, almost certainly relegate us. The way up for the team is to add some quality (Randy, come on, you can't be blind to this), rally round and show some fight and togetherness. Sacking the manager would lead to the notion of a club in freefall and disarray - and while we may currently be the former, we can prevent the latter.
As usual sir, bang on the money.
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I posted the following on another thread but feel it is valid here: I'm beginning to get a tad perturbed. There are still 18 days left to buy a few experienced, half-decent players to bolster our squad and provide some leadership on the pitch. I sincerely hope he is given financial backing and spends wisely. If this happens, we will hopefully be OK.
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Sorry Leeg, it is not going to happen. Lambert is faced with either saving his career or saving our premiership status. He will act in self interest and tell the owner that he can do the job without splashing money about or going back on the wage cutting strategy. That way if he fails, as he most certainly will, his get out of jail card will be that he was not adequately backed. Our board have form for staying schtumm on every topic and would never contradict him. Lambert would assume the same status as O'Neill and TSM as a manager who was dumped on by Lerner and the Villa.
If he does what we all know he should do and buy in some backbone, Lambert's credibility as a finder and polisher of cheap talent would be shot and we might not stay up anyway. He will put his own career before Villa and tell the owner he can do the job with what he has got regardless of whether he believes it or not.
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If that is the case then we will probably be relegated and I would want to see the back of Lambert.
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That's a depressing read Brian but I think you're spot on
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I posted the following on another thread but feel it is valid here: I'm beginning to get a tad perturbed. There are still 18 days left to buy a few experienced, half-decent players to bolster our squad and provide some leadership on the pitch. I sincerely hope he is given financial backing and spends wisely. If this happens, we will hopefully be OK.
I'm still in the keep camp simply because we won't get anyone in right now to do any better, and it really makes no sense to keep chopping and changing the management team. That said he needs to start to showing that he can both work with what he has, but also along with the board pull of the deals that will save us. That's what he's paid to do.
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Yes alarmingly he seems to not have an idea of how to address this slide.
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I posted the following on another thread but feel it is valid here: I'm beginning to get a tad perturbed. There are still 18 days left to buy a few experienced, half-decent players to bolster our squad and provide some leadership on the pitch. I sincerely hope he is given financial backing and spends wisely. If this happens, we will hopefully be OK.
I'm still in the keep camp simply because we won't get anyone in right now to do any better, and it really makes no sense to keep chopping and changing the management team. That said he needs to start to showing that he can both work with what he has, but also along with the board pull of the deals that will save us. That's what he's paid to do.
Voted he stay IN - If sacked/walks what will change with the playing staff? Nothing I would assume - the team would have to adapt mid-season to a new system and that could make any chance of recovery impossible.
Who would be the world-class man-motivator/genius we could get anyway? RDM? I don't think he is a bad manager but has he ever dragged a club back from the brink with no resources? In fact, who has who is available/willing to come!
We are all in this together - for better or worse
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Thats nonsense for me Brian.
If he wants to maintain his reputation, then he has to keep us up.
He has the chance to keep us in the league and enhance his reputation by winning a trophy. He knows, the same as everybody else, the only way he can do the former and have a shot at the later is by purchasing new blood.
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Don't agree with that Brian.
The best way for him to enhance his reputation is to buy 2/3 good players, that fit in to his criteria, and fit into the team instantly, experienced players, who will get us out of relegation.That will prove he can build a team, make it gel, and learn from mistakes.
Don't forget, of the team that started yday , only 3 were his buys.
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We have to give him a full season, with a full squad to pick from, which he hasnt had anything like so far, and judge him then. I do worry about one or two selections and substitutions, but every manager gets those wrong from time to time. We have to remember, he was overwhelmingly the fans choice, nows the time to back our own judgment as well as his.
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We have to give him a full season, with a full squad to pick from, which he hasnt had anything like so far, and judge him then. I do worry about one or two selections and substitutions, but every manager gets those wrong from time to time. We have to remember, he was overwhelmingly the fans choice, nows the time to back our own judgment as well as his.
That's fair enough , but if he stays he still needs to be backed with money if he stays , the squad is too weak at the moment and I think lacks the mental toughness required for a relegation battle.
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One thing I will say, the support for him shown by this poll is remarkable. He has more goodwill than any other under performing Villa manager for a long time.
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True and I thought the crowd were pretty supportive for the most part yesterday. The team isn't giving hardly anything compared to the support they receive.
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One thing I will say, the support for him shown by this poll is remarkable. He has more goodwill than any other under performing Villa manager for a long time.
I voted keep on the basis of a) it's too late to find anyone decent to replace him, especially with the random Manager selection policy seemingly in place and b) he might be given the monetary means to get us out of the shit.
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One thing I will say, the support for him shown by this poll is remarkable. He has more goodwill than any other under performing Villa manager for a long time.
I think the fans support and goodwill might be edge that keeps us up.
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If he were to go I would give it Curbishley for 6 months personally. For one he knows how to get Bent to score goals, which might well keep us up.
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One thing I will say, the support for him shown by this poll is remarkable. He has more goodwill than any other under performing Villa manager for a long time.
I think the fans support and goodwill might be edge that keeps us up.
A few goals and wins might prove a little better in order to achieve that.
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If he were to go I would give it Curbishley for 6 months personally. For one he knows how to get Bent to score goals, which might well keep us up.
I never would have thought I would here someone on here saying that! I can see it happening though. If it's said enough they might read the forums and make a decision based on this!
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I'm glad to see we are sticking with Lambert. We can't keep blaming the managers for smashing so many records over the past couple of years.
Eventually we have to face up the fact that something has been festering under the carpet and is beginning to stink the place out.
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We all want to succeed and if lambert stays then I'm sure we will all be behind him, I think if randy was going to make the change it may have been today so possibly he will stick with lambert, either way this squad is not mentally tough enough for the battle ahead - we need two or three players in , even if we have to go through the loan market .
We really need to turn things around fast , maybe if we can get past bradford it will provide the lift needed to galvanise things, if we go out though it could be a fatal blow to our chances of survival and confidence could be destroyed.
I personally would have made the change in the hope it could provide the impetus to turn it around but if the decision is to stick with him fair enough- it's randys call and he stands to gain or lose the most .
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Weirdly, I'd rather have Lambert as our manager in the Championship than in the PL.
So I'd be very tempted to try and halt this slide by bringing someone in who can do the basics well, a real coach (Hughton as an example).
Yet if we drop, I'd probably stick with him and try and let him build us back up over 1-2 seasons.
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One thing I will say, the support for him shown by this poll is remarkable. He has more goodwill than any other under performing Villa manager for a long time.
That might be because we know he is a good manager doing his best with a squad that is shit.
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Weirdly, I'd rather have Lambert as our manager in the Championship than in the PL.
So I'd be very tempted to try and halt this slide by bringing someone in who can do the basics well, a real coach (Hughton as an example).
Yet if we drop, I'd probably stick with him and try and let him build us back up over 1-2 seasons.
Interestingly I browsed the Norwich local pink un website last night and their fans were discussing lambert , many of them posted that even now they would take him back like a shot over hughton - they were particularly critical of the negative football under hughton, which surprised me.
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One thing I will say, the support for him shown by this poll is remarkable. He has more goodwill than any other under performing Villa manager for a long time.
That might be because we know he is a good manager doing his best with a squad that is shit.
That's it for me.
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i have been giving this a lot of thought even though I am trying to push the current state of affairs to the back of my mind. if someone has made this point earlier I apologise. Given there appeared to be a clause in TSMs contract that reduced compensation payable for poor performance I think it is reasonable to assume that PL has a similar clause. If we are relegated he will go they will not sack him before the end of the season. I also think PFs position would be untenable the book for 3 unsuccessful appointments stops with the CEO no matter how close he is to RL. Therefore there must be some interesting discussions going on right now about exactly what to do to avoid this situation.
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One thing I will say, the support for him shown by this poll is remarkable. He has more goodwill than any other under performing Villa manager for a long time.
That might be because we know he is a good manager doing his best with a squad that is shit.
That's it for me.
I don't care who is in charge of this squad, without adding to it we are down.
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One thing I will say, the support for him shown by this poll is remarkable. He has more goodwill than any other under performing Villa manager for a long time.
That might be because we know he is a good manager doing his best with a squad that is shit.
That's it for me.
I don't care who is in charge of this squad, without adding to it we are down.
True.
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One thing I will say, the support for him shown by this poll is remarkable. He has more goodwill than any other under performing Villa manager for a long time.
That might be because we know he is a good manager doing his best with a squad that is shit.
That's it for me.
I don't care who is in charge of this squad, without adding to it we are down.
Couldn't agree more, and if money is so tight then sacking Lambert and paying up his contract would probably cost as much as two new signings.
I know which we need right now.
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Two years ago Lerner splashed out and got bent for a huge fee, surely he can give at least £10m for players now?
If we went down he has plenty players he could sell to recoup that £10m.
I don't see the business sense in risking losing so much more money by being relegated when £10m could help stay up ?
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One thing I will say, the support for him shown by this poll is remarkable. He has more goodwill than any other under performing Villa manager for a long time.
I think a lot have the view that even if Lambert is not doing a good job, it's not in our interest to get rid. Lambert is in the best position to turn this around; he knows what he has and what he needs. A new manager would need time to find his feet, something we don't have. If we are to benefit from a change of manager, we need to find someone that is significantly better than Lambert. I don't think that's realistic.
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If he were to go I would give it Curbishley for 6 months personally. For one he knows how to get Bent to score goals, which might well keep us up.
Curbishley! Well at least someone still has a sense of humour
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Get Ron Saunders in to do the team talks. Them wankers wouldn't know what's hit them
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One thing I will say, the support for him shown by this poll is remarkable. He has more goodwill than any other under performing Villa manager for a long time.
That might be because we know he is a good manager doing his best with a squad that is shit.
That's it for me.
Not for the first time, I totally agree with you (on the squad). I genuinely believe that, though Lambert has made his mistakes, the major problem is the squad.
I wouldn't even sack Lambert if we went down. If that were to happen, who could we find better qualified to bring us back up?
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TSM?
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Get Ron Saunders in to do the team talks. Them wankers wouldn't know what's hit them
Yes, I am sure rolling in a n 80 year old man who has been out of the game for 30 years, who none of them have ever heard of (including the CEO, probably) would give them the kick up the arse needed.
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Get Ron Saunders in to do the team talks. Them wankers wouldn't know what's hit them
Yes, I am sure rolling in a n 80 year old man who has been out of the game for 30 years, who none of them have ever heard of (including the CEO, probably) would give them the kick up the arse needed.
Probably the saddest indictment of all...
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TSM?
You must have had a bump on the head. :o
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One thing I will say, the support for him shown by this poll is remarkable. He has more goodwill than any other under performing Villa manager for a long time.
That might be because we know he is a good manager doing his best with a squad that is shit.
That's it for me.
Not for the first time, I totally agree with you (on the squad). I genuinely believe that, though Lambert has made his mistakes, the major problem is the squad.
I wouldn't even sack Lambert if we went down. If that were to happen, who could we find better qualified to bring us back up?
For circumstances not of his making he has been forced to create a team from scratch. Then, just as they looked like they were starting to find their feet, we've suffered from a horrible run of injuries. Trying to judge him under these circumstances is difficult as I think we'd have had problems whoever was picking the side.
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Get Ron Saunders in to do the team talks. Them wankers wouldn't know what's hit them
Yes, I am sure rolling in a n 80 year old man who has been out of the game for 30 years, who none of them have ever heard of (including the CEO, probably) would give them the kick up the arse needed.
Maybe but even at 80 he's more articulate than TSM2.
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Don't you mean TOSM?
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Seems he's sticking with him so lets hope he gives him some cash -
@patmurphybbc: PL's job not in danger @AVFCOfficial.RL totally supportive,understand last thing he wants is more turbulence.Makes no sense to drop boss now
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@patmurphybbc: PL's job not in danger @AVFCOfficial.RL totally supportive,understand last thing he wants is more turbulence.Makes no sense to drop boss now
Very good news.
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Seems he's sticking with him so lets hope he gives him some cash -
@patmurphybbc: PL's job not in danger @AVFCOfficial.RL totally supportive,understand last thing he wants is more turbulence.Makes no sense to drop boss now
hope supportive=players in quickly who can make a difference
Wouldn't want to see us try yet another manager.
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Seems he's sticking with him so lets hope he gives him some cash -
@patmurphybbc: PL's job not in danger @AVFCOfficial.RL totally supportive,understand last thing he wants is more turbulence.Makes no sense to drop boss now
hope supportive=players in quickly who can make a difference
Agreed, that's how I hoped he meant 'supportive' as well.
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Right then, lets get some players in and get this show on the road .
Randy needed to back him or sack him , seems he's chosen to back him so lets get some money on the table and two or three players to boost the team.
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@patmurphybbc: PL's job not in danger @AVFCOfficial.RL totally supportive,understand last thing he wants is more turbulence.Makes no sense to drop boss now
Very good news.
For who? QPR?
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@patmurphybbc: PL's job not in danger @AVFCOfficial.RL totally supportive,understand last thing he wants is more turbulence.Makes no sense to drop boss now
[/
Very good news.
For who? QPR?
This is bullshit. Lerner doesn't communicate to anyone, at any time, about anything at all. Move along please.
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Is that a quote off Lerner, or has he just shrugged his shoulders....
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I do hope we stick with lambert, but i have a feeling he is going to walk. He is beginning to look totally shellshocked at the moment, especially in his post match interviews, and looks to me that he has run out of ideas with the current squad.
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Certainly when you look back at his interview after Norwich beat us last season, he looks like he's aged about 10 years in the last seven months.
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He'd better not fucking walk. We are all in this shit together.
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If we stick with him i reckon we're down barring Lerner opening the wallet, I honestly think Randy thinks he's Dave whelan these days.......
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I've changed my vote to stick with him. I've said before that you shouldn't kick a man when he's down and that's it. The anger of yesterday has subsided a bit. It had to.
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This week is massive. If we don't get two players in of the required ability, we will get another morale-sapping shafting at the hands of our nearest rivals. Action is required ASAP
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I've changed my vote to stick with him. I've said before that you shouldn't kick a man when he's down and that's it. The anger of yesterday has subsided a bit. It had to.
That's the thing. If you look at recent results and performances, the justifiable anger makes you want him to go.
If you look at the wider situation more dispassionately, it isn't anything like as clear cut.
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yep. my heart says they're shell-shocked after the last game, my head says we are the perfect team for them to play after a set-back. The usual 60 minutes of us fielding no discernable formation should do it
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yep. my heart says they're shell-shocked after the last game, my head says we are the perfect team for them to play after a set-back. The usual 60 minutes of us fielding no discernable formation should do it
If we take a hiding off them like Wolves last season will Lerner have another option open to him?
Terry Connor, now there is a replacement noone has mentioned.
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I think I'm going to cry
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yep. my heart says they're shell-shocked after the last game, my head says we are the perfect team for them to play after a set-back. The usual 60 minutes of us fielding no discernable formation should do it
If we take a hiding of them like Wolves last season will Lerner have another option open to him?
Terry Connor, now there is a replacement noone has mentioned.
I really don't know what Lerner intends to do. I reckon he'll probably stick with him as he seems to do exactly the opposite of what is required all the way through his tenure. Anyway, if nothing happens till the 20th its too late - it's pushing it to get a new guy if he got the shove next week. I guess we're locked in a death embrace with lambert as we plunge off the premiership cliff hoping there's a safety net of 50 pound notes being delivered before we hit the bottom.
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yep. my heart says they're shell-shocked after the last game, my head says we are the perfect team for them to play after a set-back. The usual 60 minutes of us fielding no discernable formation should do
If we take a hiding off them like Wolves last season will Lerner have another option open to him?
Terry Connor, now there is a replacement noone has mentioned.
Terry Connor...... Good example of how a dire situation can get worse! They sacked a guy who probably couldn't save them but would have made a better fist of getting them back up and are now a further 2 managers on. I am worried that if we keep losing Lambert will go and then what? Cool heads needed.
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yep. my heart says they're shell-shocked after the last game, my head says we are the perfect team for them to play after a set-back. The usual 60 minutes of us fielding no discernable formation should do
If we take a hiding off them like Wolves last season will Lerner have another option open to him?
Terry Connor, now there is a replacement noone has mentioned.
Terry Connor...... Good example of how a dire situation can get worse! They sacked a guy who probably couldn't save them but would have made a better fist of getting them back up and are now a further 2 managers on. I am worried that if we keep losing Lambert will go and then what? Cool heads needed.
Or is it an example of just picking an absolute dud who was totally out of his depth?
Which is something that Lerner is more than capable of doing. If he is going to act he needs to now either and
get rid or give him some money. Personally I think he deserves atleast a year but also think he is turning out to
be a very poor coach which is a shame as I thought we were getting the new breed of coach schooled on the
continent. Looking at the awful set up tactically he definetly is not.
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I was the first fan of Paul Lambert that I knew very well since he was at Norwich, and obviously I have remained very disappointed for his signigns (apart from Benteke and Guzan), his approach to the game, his lack of authority and game plan, and his confused tactics (he should decide once for all if we have to play with 3, 4 or 5 defenders).
But I still think that he must be backed at least until the end of the season.
After the PL Norwich game I realised that we'd be relegated with this midfield, it was beyond me that we were actually so crap in this crucial department.
Lambert has done a lot of mistakes, but neither Jesus Christ could save a team with KEA, Holmes, Delph and Bannan in the midfield, and only KEA has been chosen by PL.
So, Lambert deserves a second chance, if Randy backs him he could still be the right man for the job.
UTV.
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half the problem is he was most people's choice. Most people don't like to admit they're as clueless as Lerner. But all this "who can we get who's better" stuff is just laughable. My memory may be playing tricks on me but it was hardly a trawl through the managerial greats last summer and for a long time it looked like it was going to be a guy who's main qualifaction seem to be he scored a lot goals for ManU!! Lambert's record is/was nothing special - Promotion to the PL and kept them there for a season. Its not really a high threshold of success and TSM did it and won a cup, Phil Brown, Steve Bruce, its a long list.......
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Agreed, Archie.
Re Holman, he's a very limited player. Runs around a bit when he can be arsed, occasional decent shot.
He's like a moodier Craig Gardner.
There is not a single currently available permutation of midfielders at the club which is not shit.
That's the biggest problem.
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half the problem is he was most people's choice. Most people don't like to admit they're as clueless as Lerner. But all this "who can we get who's better" stuff is just laughable. My memory may be playing tricks on me but it was hardly a trawl through the managerial greats last summer and for a long time it looked like it was going to be a guy who's main qualifaction seem to be he scored a lot goals for ManU!! Lambert's record is/was nothing special - Promotion to the PL and kept them there for a season. Its not really a high threshold of success and TSM did it and won a cup, Phil Brown, Steve Bruce, its a long list.......
Go on, then.
Who could we get?
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Greg I've absolutely no idea what point you're making.
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Agreed, Archie.
Re Holman, he's a very limited player. Runs around a bit when he can be arsed, occasional decent shot.
He's like a moodier Craig Gardner.
There is not a single currently available permutation of midfielders at the club which is not shit.
That's the biggest problem.
That's presumably including attacking midfielders? Because Delph and Bannan were good yesterday, and Westwood alright, but N'Zogbia, Holman and Agbonlahor were varying degrees of rubbish.
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half the problem is he was most people's choice. Most people don't like to admit they're as clueless as Lerner. But all this "who can we get who's better" stuff is just laughable. My memory may be playing tricks on me but it was hardly a trawl through the managerial greats last summer and for a long time it looked like it was going to be a guy who's main qualifaction seem to be he scored a lot goals for ManU!! Lambert's record is/was nothing special - Promotion to the PL and kept them there for a season. Its not really a high threshold of success and TSM did it and won a cup, Phil Brown, Steve Bruce, its a long list.......
Go on, then.
Who could we get?
Anyone who got promoted to the PL and kept them up for a year is just as qualifed as lambert. Even TSM could organise a defence..
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Agreed, Archie.
Re Holman, he's a very limited player. Runs around a bit when he can be arsed, occasional decent shot.
He's like a moodier Craig Gardner.
There is not a single currently available permutation of midfielders at the club which is not shit.
That's the biggest problem.
That's presumably including attacking midfielders? Because Delph and Bannan were good yesterday, and Westwood alright, but N'Zogbia, Holman and Agbonlahor were varying degrees of rubbish.
We talk about bringing in experience but they have to have the desire. The 3 you have named are probably our three most experienced players but when you see them play, they do not look to have that desire. Take Gabby at Bradford in the first half when he didn't win a couple of free-kicks/corners, he was laughing at the referee. If that had been Bellamy, for instance, he would have been right over at the referee and getting up his nose. Are we a soft touch for referees to give things against us without the fear of a verbal backlash.
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half the problem is he was most people's choice. Most people don't like to admit they're as clueless as Lerner. But all this "who can we get who's better" stuff is just laughable. My memory may be playing tricks on me but it was hardly a trawl through the managerial greats last summer and for a long time it looked like it was going to be a guy who's main qualifaction seem to be he scored a lot goals for ManU!! Lambert's record is/was nothing special - Promotion to the PL and kept them there for a season. Its not really a high threshold of success and TSM did it and won a cup, Phil Brown, Steve Bruce, its a long list.......
Go on, then.
Who could we get?
Anyone who got promoted to the PL and kept them up for a year is just as qualifed as lambert. Even TSM could organise a defence..
So you would take TSM over Lambert?
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Still out for me.
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Agreed, Archie.
Re Holman, he's a very limited player. Runs around a bit when he can be arsed, occasional decent shot.
He's like a moodier Craig Gardner.
There is not a single currently available permutation of midfielders at the club which is not shit.
That's the biggest problem.
That's presumably including attacking midfielders? Because Delph and Bannan were good yesterday, and Westwood alright, but N'Zogbia, Holman and Agbonlahor were varying degrees of rubbish.
We talk about bringing in experience but they have to have the desire. The 3 you have named are probably our three most experienced players but when you see them play, they do not look to have that desire. Take Gabby at Bradford in the first half when he didn't win a couple of free-kicks/corners, he was laughing at the referee. If that had been Bellamy, for instance, he would have been right over at the referee and getting up his nose. Are we a soft touch for referees to give things against us without the fear of a verbal backlash.
I agree to an extent, though I disagree on a small point: I don't think intimidating the refs would give us more off a chance in games. However, I do agree that it indicates a kind of woe-is-me, defeatist attitude among our senior (therefore most jaded) players.
It's like Wenger: give a penalty for an Arsenal player picking the ball up and machete-slicing an opponent's head off and he'd moan complain and protest against all the evidence - these days, the most debatable of decisions against his team is met with a shrug and a comment like 'I don't want to talk about referees, they call the game as they see it' etc. Now, the latter is obviously more within the spirit of the game, but the former indicates a fire in the belly, an aggressive bastard willing to be as immoral as he needs to be to win. It's the same with our players - they don't seem to have that fire, Weimann apart.
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half the problem is he was most people's choice. Most people don't like to admit they're as clueless as Lerner. But all this "who can we get who's better" stuff is just laughable. My memory may be playing tricks on me but it was hardly a trawl through the managerial greats last summer and for a long time it looked like it was going to be a guy who's main qualifaction seem to be he scored a lot goals for ManU!! Lambert's record is/was nothing special - Promotion to the PL and kept them there for a season. Its not really a high threshold of success and TSM did it and won a cup, Phil Brown, Steve Bruce, its a long list.......
Go on, then.
Who could we get?
Anyone who got promoted to the PL and kept them up for a year is just as qualifed as lambert. Even TSM could organise a defence..
So you would take TSM over Lambert?
At the moment with points at stake? probably. He'd make us harder to beat and going for draws is a lot less painful than seeing teams walk through us every week. I don't think TSM would keep us up but he wouldn't break the goals against record on the way down. But I wasn't suggesting TSM anyway, just pointing out that Lambert's record is hardly top draw and there's loads of managers with the same or better record in the PL. Including TSM.
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I have changed my mind. Lambert IN. I was angry as hell yesterday but loyalty goes both ways. I want to stick with him (assuming he can buy players which I think he has the money to do so).
Changing manager yet again will not serve us well, even less so given there are no good alternatives.
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The squad isn't good enough. If you're going to sack him you either need to appoint an impact manager (the likes of O'Neill or Redknapp) or someone who you think can get the best out of the players.
There's no obvious candidate. I say stick with him, if we stay up then I think he can still turn it round - he's just made an awful balls up of the Summer window. If we keep losing and he has to go before we get cut adrift then go for K-Mac and hope he can get something out of the academy graduates.
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Agreed, Archie.
Re Holman, he's a very limited player. Runs around a bit when he can be arsed, occasional decent shot.
He's like a moodier Craig Gardner.
There is not a single currently available permutation of midfielders at the club which is not shit.
That's the biggest problem.
Holman = Milner without the ability.
Completely agree though. Every week I find myself thinking 'well, if we can get Ireland/N'Zogbia in for Ireland/N'Zogbia and he can find a bit of form we may look more dangerous...'
I think Westwood is the only midfielder in the squad who is anywhere near the required level at the minute.
I'd say get Warnock in midfield but we (somehow) have a worse collective of left-backs so he'd be needed there.
If only we could field a back six of:
Lowton - Dunne - Vlaar - Warnock
Makoun - Petrov
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Agreed, Archie.
Re Holman, he's a very limited player. Runs around a bit when he can be arsed, occasional decent shot.
He's like a moodier Craig Gardner.
There is not a single currently available permutation of midfielders at the club which is not shit.
That's the biggest problem.
Holman = Milner without the ability.
Completely agree though. Every week I find myself thinking 'well, if we can get Ireland/N'Zogbia in for Ireland/N'Zogbia and he can find a bit of form we may look more dangerous...'
I think Westwood is the only midfielder in the squad who is anywhere near the required level at the minute.
I'd say get Warnock in midfield but we (somehow) have a worse collective of left-backs so he'd be needed there.
If only we could field a back six of:
Lowton - Dunne - Vlaar - Warnock
Makoun - Petrov
You know what, I think Westwood is better than Makoun, and Warnock easily had spells as what we've been seeing recently. But essentially I agree with you - I don't think that back six is getting relegated anytime soon.
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All we can do is hope that randy has made the right decision and now gives lambert enough to get 2 or 3 players in , if he was going to sack him he would have pulled the trigger by now and the window continues to run down so the likelihood is lambert will stay - the key thing now is that he brings in the right players- who have premier league experience and can hit the ground running.
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All we can do is hope that randy has made the right decision and now gives lambert enough to get 2 or 3 players in , if he was going to sack him he would have pulled the trigger by now and the window continues to run down so the likelihood is lambert will stay - the key thing now is that he brings in the right players- who have premier league experience and can hit the ground running.
Like who?
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Matthew Upson, perhaps? Warming the bench at Stoke, I believe. Proven Premiership experience.
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Has Lambert ever signed a player either here or at Norwich that has played for another premier league team?
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If Lambert gets the sack I see the future of Venables and Bryan Robson duo based on the fact they did ok when in charge of England in Euro 96. This was probably Faulkwit's first exposure to football.
It must have been this sort of thinking that had us hire Houllier and after all El Tel doesn't have the same heart problems
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Has Lambert ever signed a player either here or at Norwich that has played for another premier league team?
Or Championship even ?
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exactly, so I dont know why we are expecting him to suddenly do this.
In for me. The mumbling has got to improve, as do the results, but i think he is the one at least to change the results bit
we go again
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It's a very fine line we're walking, but I say stick with him. This is a similar sort of shitty transitional season to the ones we had under Houllier and McLeish. It's just that this time we've got a weaker squad. Now that may be partly Lambert's fault, with the over-reliance on youth, but last summer he brought in a lot of players for very reasonable money (and presumably on very reasonable wages), and most of them look promising and should have good potential resale value. The only one I've been really disappointed with is KEA. What we need is for Lerner to approve the signings of two experienced pros - a CB and a DM - and I genuinely believe that is all it would take to turn us into a half-decent side.
We basically need a repeat of the "Bent January" to stave off the drop. But if Lambert and Lerner don't bring anyone in, we will be relegated.
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It's a very fine line we're walking, but I say stick with him. This is a similar sort of shitty transitional season to the ones we had under Houllier and McLeish. It's just that this time we've got a weaker squad. Now that may be partly Lambert's fault, with the over-reliance on youth, but last summer he brought in a lot of players for very reasonable money (and presumably on very reasonable wages), and most of them look promising and should have good potential resale value. The only one I've been really disappointed with is KEA. What we need is for Lerner to approve the signings of two experienced pros - a CB and a DM - and I genuinely believe that is all it would take to turn us into a half-decent side.
We basically need a repeat of the "Bent January" to stave off the drop. But if Lambert and Lerner don't bring anyone in, we will be relegated.
Totally agree. Stick with him. Randy has to dig deep. A couple of experienced heads will make all the difference.
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I think they will now decide to open the purse strings a bit more , but the fact remains we have dropped vital points during this window which could have been avoided if they had acted earlier in the window.
Instead of winning and being 6 points clear of the relegation zone we find ourselves in it , those points at the end of the season could well seal our fate.
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I still say stick with him. However, he has to realise that the project or experiment has not worked and a back to basics approach is needed. To do that we require a few good players and quickly.
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Instead of winning and being 6 points clear of the relegation zone we find ourselves in it , those points at the end of the season could well seal our fate.
They will,as will our goal difference as we effectively need an extra point as it's by far and away the worst of any of our rivals.So unless we go on a Wigan style revival we are doomed.We can't even rely on just winning games anymore,we also have to hope that teams around us don't either
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Stick with him and give him funds to sink or swim, there's not point changing now.
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Paul Lambert on the way forward.
Paul Lambert insists now is definitely not the time to panic, with a "long, long way" still to go.
Villa dropped into the bottom three following their home defeat to Southampton.
But Lambert is still extremely confident that Villa will climb the table and get away from the danger zone in the coming weeks ahead.
The boss says there will be plenty of "twists and turns" from now until the end of the season.
He said: "You can't panic. You keep going.
"There's a long, long way to go. There will be loads of twists and turns in this whole thing."
Asked why he believes Villa will push up, he continued: "I just do. I said that from day one. I just do.
"If you look at the middle of that table, there is not much in it. There are about eight or nine teams.
"The lads are extremely disappointed because we didn't deserve that.
"But like I said, you will win games when you don't deserve to and lose when you don't deserve to."
Asked whether he was worried about losing to teams in and around Villa like Wigan and Southampton, with "so-called" tougher fixtures on the horizon, he added: "I think every game is tough.
"It doesn't matter if it's Southampton, Wigan, Liverpool or Manchester United.
"I think every game is hard. I never take any game lightly. I think every game in this division is tough."
Lambert is eager to turn things around on behalf of the fantastic fans who come and cheer the team week-in and week-out.
He added: "The crowd were excellent. Oh my god. I don't know what to say to them because they have been brilliant with me and the team.
"The noise levels here at Villa Park are incredible. You just want to give them something back because they certainly need it."
Make sure you pick up tickets for Newcastle.
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Man's a deluded fool. "It doesn't matter if it's Southampton, Wigan, Liverpool or Manchester United." Of course it bloody does.
"But like I said, you will win games when you don't deserve to"
Any chance of that happening any time soon Paul?
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This is my favourite line:-
Asked why he believes Villa will push up, he continued: "I just do. I said that from day one. I just do.
Phew !!
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He also said something along the lines of 'we'll give it a good go but we go with what we've got'.
We're done for. We'll be down, he'll be long gone with a big pay off and we will be left with lower league football for the foreseeable future.
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Let's see who he brings in during the next fortnight - he needs to bring proven quality in - personally I would have changed manager but whether we like it or not we must get behind lambert and hope he can get us out of this mess now.
I'm far from convinced that he can but he is our only hope now that randy has chosen to back him.
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Just posted this on another thread, but it is sort of a response to some of PL's comments:
I hate to point this out to MR Lambert but we have only won 6 league games in the last 12 months, how we are now supposed to go on a run that will carry us into the safety zone when we are already 6 points behind Sunderland in 14th is beyond me.
We may just survive to finish 17th but that is going to take a reliance on the teams around us have a worse run of it than us until the end of the season.
I don't think that just adding a couple of players will be enough, I hope that is is and that we survive but I think that this season is the season that we go down, we have been around the drop zone for three seasons now and sooner or later the trap door will open and we will fall through it.
Sad.
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West Brom, Bradford, Millwall, Newcastle are next 4 games, if now's not the time to panic..WHEN?
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What's he supposed to say? We're shit and we're going down?
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I would imagine that after seeing us lose to Wigan, Bradford and Southampton, shipping 7 goals in the process and only scoring 1, that things are going on behind the scenes to bring players in because we have to. I really can't imagine them not doing anything.
The problem with changing manager is that apart from the lack of continuity, they'll have needed to sound somebody out to definatley come in and apart from Di Matteo, there's not a great deal out there so it's a case of get behind him.
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Make sure you pick up tickets for Newcastle.
Good luck with that.
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What's he supposed to say? We're shit and we're going down?
Mentioning that he's looking to be proactive in the transfer window,might be a bit more reassuring Rather than the usual " we go again" shit
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What's he supposed to say? We're shit and we're going down?
No but that would be an honest and accurate assessment of the situation.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2261891/Aston-Villa-transfer-latest-Randy-Lerner-ready-invest.html
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Villa need Lerner lifeline: Billionaire owner will foot the bill to ensure Premier League safety
By NEIL MOXLEY
PUBLISHED: 22:52, 13 January 2013 | UPDATED: 22:52, 13 January 2013
Comments (3)
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Randy Lerner viewed the latest episode in Aston Villa's descent with growing worry, reluctantly admitting to himself that he will again be called upon to safeguard his club's Premier League status.
The American billionaire has a live feed of every Villa match beamed to him via satellite link and, within minutes of the final whistle, he swaps his thoughts with chief executive Paul Faulkner.
His verdict after watching yet another defeat was that 'doing nothing is not an option' after Rickie Lambert's penalty divided the teams during this desperate relegation dogfight.
Help: Lerner (right) is willing to spend to save Aston Villa from relegation
The message from across the Pond on Saturday night was that Lerner is ready and willing to foot the bill, should Villa boss Paul Lambert find the experienced centre-half and midfielder he desperately needs to add know-how to a side that is lacking direction and organisation.
There have to be limits. But there is now a realisation that the purse-strings will have to be relaxed a little more to avert a third brush with relegation.
Lerner, who purchased the club in 2005 for £65m, has pumped at least another £150m into Villa and most notably used his wealth to positive effect when signing Darren Bent in a £24m package two years ago.
That move paid off and the other key message from the hierarchy on Saturday evening was that the club would not panic over the managerial situation.
Danger: Villa lost at home to Southampton on Saturday to fall into the bottom three
The decision-makers would be well within their rights to do so - Villa are now in desperate straits.
In the short-term, the statistics are damning. As are performances. And results.
In the medium-term they paint a picture of steady decline. It is little wonder to 30,000 regular visitors they are in such a mess.
In the last 38 games - a Premier League season - Villa have collected just 30 points.
They stayed up by the skin of their teeth last term. Alex McLeish was relegated with Birmingham City in 2010-11 having garnered one point more than Villa used to survive.
Thumped: Villa were smashed 8-0 by Chelsea just before Christmas
Current boss Lambert's grand plan is sensible in conception but is proving disastrous in execution.
The Scot keeps beating the drum, maintaining his belief that his club are close to mid-table safety. The fact is, Villa are closer to the bottom of the table. And QPR and Reading are picking up results.
Eight goals conceded without reply in three home defeats to Spurs, Wigan and Southampton have caused Lerner's worry.
And Lambert's repeated platitudes smack of the orchestra playing while the Titanic sinks.
Worried: Lambert's side have lost four of their last five league games
While the youth in Villa's ranks has been trumpeted - the average age of the back four was 22 - it has taken a few words from striker Gabby Agbonlahor to put it into perspective
'It's not like they are 16 or 17,' he said, 'people say they are young but that doesn't matter.'
It is the quality that counts. To this eye, Southampton defender Luke Shaw, 17, looks an England prospect already. Villa are coming up short.
As Southampton striker Rickie Lambert said: 'When we got promoted, we knew we didn't have much Premier League experience in the squad, only a couple who had played Premier League.
'We knew it was going to take us a while to get used to it. Now I feel we are getting used to it and improving every game.'
Villa aren't. They are stuck in reverse. And, once more, the club needs to call upon its' well-heeled American patron to shift them into gear. And quickly.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2261891/Aston-Villa-transfer-latest-Randy-Lerner-ready-invest.html#ixzz2HwlV4Z2v
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2261891/Aston-Villa-transfer-latest-Randy-Lerner-ready-invest.html
Randy Lerner viewed the latest episode in Aston Villa's descent with growing worry, reluctantly admitting to himself that he will again be called upon to safeguard his club's Premier League status.
The American billionaire has a live feed of every Villa match beamed to him via satellite link and, within minutes of the final whistle, he swaps his thoughts with chief executive Paul Faulkner.
His verdict after watching yet another defeat was that 'doing nothing is not an option' after Rickie Lambert's penalty divided the teams during this desperate relegation dogfight.
The message from across the Pond on Saturday night was that Lerner is ready and willing to foot the bill, should Villa boss Paul Lambert find the experienced centre-half and midfielder he desperately needs to add know-how to a side that is lacking direction and organisation.
There have to be limits. But there is now a realisation that the purse-strings will have to be relaxed a little more to avert a third brush with relegation.
Lerner, who purchased the club in 2005 for £65m, has pumped at least another £150m into Villa and most notably used his wealth to positive effect when signing Darren Bent in a £24m package two years ago.
That move paid off and the other key message from the hierarchy on Saturday evening was that the club would not panic over the managerial situation.
Danger: Villa lost at home to Southampton on Saturday to fall into the bottom three
The decision-makers would be well within their rights to do so - Villa are now in desperate straits.
In the short-term, the statistics are damning. As are performances. And results.
In the medium-term they paint a picture of steady decline. It is little wonder to 30,000 regular visitors they are in such a mess.
In the last 38 games - a Premier League season - Villa have collected just 30 points.
They stayed up by the skin of their teeth last term. Alex McLeish was relegated with Birmingham City in 2010-11 having garnered one point more than Villa used to survive.
Thumped: Villa were smashed 8-0 by Chelsea just before Christmas
Current boss Lambert's grand plan is sensible in conception but is proving disastrous in execution.
The Scot keeps beating the drum, maintaining his belief that his club are close to mid-table safety. The fact is, Villa are closer to the bottom of the table. And QPR and Reading are picking up results.
Eight goals conceded without reply in three home defeats to Spurs, Wigan and Southampton have caused Lerner's worry.
And Lambert's repeated platitudes smack of the orchestra playing while the Titanic sinks.
Worried: Lambert's side have lost four of their last five league games
While the youth in Villa's ranks has been trumpeted - the average age of the back four was 22 - it has taken a few words from striker Gabby Agbonlahor to put it into perspective
'It's not like they are 16 or 17,' he said, 'people say they are young but that doesn't matter.'
It is the quality that counts. To this eye, Southampton defender Luke Shaw, 17, looks an England prospect already. Villa are coming up short.
As Southampton striker Rickie Lambert said: 'When we got promoted, we knew we didn't have much Premier League experience in the squad, only a couple who had played Premier League.
'We knew it was going to take us a while to get used to it. Now I feel we are getting used to it and improving every game.'
Villa aren't. They are stuck in reverse. And, once more, the club needs to call upon its' well-heeled American patron to shift them into gear. And quickly.
"The Scot keeps beating the drum, maintaining his belief that his club are close to mid-table safety. The fact is, Villa are closer to the bottom of the table. And QPR and Reading are picking up results."
Does Lambert not see this!!!
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Lescott and Sossoko please
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What's he supposed to say? We're shit and we're going down?
Mentioning that he's looking to be proactive in the transfer window,might be a bit more reassuring Rather than the usual " we go again" shit
If he hasn't got the money, what use would lying do? There is nothing really he can say and when he tries everyone jumps on his back!
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Got to stick with him and work our way out of this hole
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Should we stay up and finish say 16th same as last season ,should be be sacked then bearing in mind he would have only done as well as Mcliesh.
Changing managers is not always the best way forward and it very much a stick or twist for Lerner with high stakes I just feel that Lambert is no where near blameless for how poor we are and his comments don't fill me with confidence in the slightest
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One goal in the last six home games is a pretty damming stat.
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One goal in the last six home games is a pretty damming stat.
Especially considering our attacking options are often cited as our best asset.
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Our attacking issues stem from a shocking midfield.
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Our attacking issues stem from a shocking midfield.
So do our defensive problems, midfield is dreadful.
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It's blinding obvious where the problem lies.
Another thing is the general apathy towards the team, Lambert might say the backing is amazing, but this is more to do with trying to keep the fans onside. I am amazed at how light the criticism has been towards him, in particular given the runs of result and record breaking scores been racked up against us.
It seems that the vast majority of fans actually at Villa Park have a grim vision of the inevitability of it all, hence he lack of noise one way or another.
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There was a distinct air of resignation in the crowd on Saturday.
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After reading the piece in tonight's Mail, I was thinking about Lambert's reign so far and what he could have done differently, particularly in the transfer market. When he came in, he obviously identified certain areas that needed improvement and looking back his logic was sound enough, it is just that he has had a bit of bad luck and some haven't worked out.
Given needed a challenge so brought back Guzan and that has worked out.
Two fullbacks needed replacing so bought Lowton and Bennett - one of who has been satisfactory and the other has struggled.
Central defence needed changing so he bought Vlaar and probably thought that him added to Clark and Dunne would be enough.
Desperately needed help in central midfield so he bought El Ahmadi, who looked the real deal in Holland and Westwood to add numbers.
Probably decided early on that he wasn't going to play with wingers, so with Holman already added to the likes of Ireland and N'Zogbia, he must have thought he had enough attacking midfield options.
Needed a striker so went out and bought Benteke. Still not entirely sure why he bought Bowery!!
Looking back, the above seemed to be good moves at the time. What has transpired is that Bennett has struggled leaving us weak at LB, Dunne and Vlaar have been injured leaving us weak at CB, the main man in midfield KEA faded badly after a decent start leaving us weak in central midfield and the likes of Ireland and N'Zogbia have underperformed (again) leaving us with little in the way of creativity. All of the above has meant he has been left with a team that most managers would struggle to win games with.
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There was a distinct air of resignation in the crowd on Saturday.
It's a far cry from when Houllier was here and we were threatened with relegation inspiring the " Bring a scarf to the Newcastle game " Imagine that happening now! Then,the thought of relegation was unthinkable,now it's widely accepted that ,that is going to be the likely outcome,we've been crap for so long.Last back to back wins May 2011 for christs sake
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One goal in the last six home games is a pretty damming stat.
Especially considering our attacking options are often cited as our best asset.
- especially when one of them hasn`t scored at home "in a month of Sundays"
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There was a distinct air of resignation in the crowd on Saturday.
It's a far cry from when Houllier was here and we were threatened with relegation inspiring the " Bring a scarf to the Newcastle game " Imagine that happening now! Then,the thought of relegation was unthinkable,now it's widely accepted that ,that is going to be the likely outcome,we've been crap for so long.Last back to back wins May 2011 for christs sake
Someone a few weeks back described us as having circled the drain. That's exactly what it feels like.
When I get pissed off with the football it's less than it was last year, even though our predicaments worse, I think I've just got used to it. I tell my mrs we're going down (don't know why i bother cos she doesn't give a flying fuck) and she just says "oh you say that every year". It would probably be a bit of a shock if we do go down, but it won't really be a surprise.
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Pat Murphy just made several points I agree with. There's a lack of nous in our team, and the players aren't actually that young in most cases it's whether they're good enough. Baker and Clark clearly need a break and we need experience into the centre of the team.
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There was a distinct air of resignation in the crowd on Saturday.
It's a far cry from when Houllier was here and we were threatened with relegation inspiring the " Bring a scarf to the Newcastle game " Imagine that happening now! Then,the thought of relegation was unthinkable,now it's widely accepted that ,that is going to be the likely outcome,we've been crap for so long.Last back to back wins May 2011 for christs sake
Someone a few weeks back described us as having circled the drain. That's exactly what it feels like.
When I get pissed off with the football it's less than it was last year, even though our predicaments worse, I think I've just got used to it. I tell my mrs we're going down (don't know why i bother cos she doesn't give a flying fuck) and she just says "oh you say that every year". It would probably be a bit of a shock if we do go down, but it won't really be a surprise.
I say the same thing, get same response. Getting to really hate Saturday nights now. Same cycle for me, total dispare and acceptance of our fate then bloody 'hope' rises again. I might feel better when hope is well and truly dead.
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I realised today I'm doing 3 games in less than a week, can't remember when that last happened. I reckon I'll have the Samaritans on speed dial by Tuesday.
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Pat Murphy just made several points I agree with. There's a lack of nous in our team, and the players aren't actually that young in most cases it's whether they're good enough. Baker and Clark clearly need a break and we need experience into the centre of the team.
I tuned in at the very end of that section, but they seemed to be talking about the LMA. We're they discussing whether he should be sacked/backed by Lerner too?
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No they said he wouldn't be sacked, but highlighted our problems. It's not an age issue it's a quality issue.
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We need Alec Baldwin's character from Glengarry Glenn Ross to come in. "Put. The. Coffee. DOWN!"
(http://jackmalcolm.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/glengarry-glen-ross-alec-baldwin-11.jpg)
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And we'll be lucky to end up with the steak knives.
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When our players are referred to as young, what people should be saying is 'inexperienced at the top level'. If we take that as meaning in England then it covers most of the team.
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I'm very worried that PL is a very stubborn man who seems to have an aversion to signing players above league one.Maybe he can't deal with the egos (see Bent) and you could argue that McLeish got much more out of Ireland than he has. Ultimately his stubborness will get us relegated as players from othe leagues are not going to hit the road running.it's also far too late these players should have been identified and in by the beginning of Jan and certainly by the Southampton game to give us any chance. I just can't see our way out of it,the quality we need is not there and I'm not confident it will be acquired . It's so depressing and could have been so avoidable. Out of all the new managers this season I was confident we had got the best one. Unfortunately as it turns out we've got the worst ever imaginable who is achieving a feat that even McLeish couldn't manage
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It looks deliberate to me. How can you think anything else when, following the run of results we have had, the club does not do anything to address it?
The manager sits and watches as if he has been assured that his position is safe regardless of relegation.
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Pat Murphy just made several points I agree with. There's a lack of nous in our team, and the players aren't actually that young in most cases it's whether they're good enough. Baker and Clark clearly need a break and we need experience into the centre of the team.
exactly , Soton had a 17 year old which none of our players could lace his boots. they are not young , there is just to many of them.
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Agreed JP, I prefer to call them inexperienced rather than young (although clearly the two go together, and they're not the oldest). They've been mismanaged since the MON days, and many of them could have been not only better, but better equipped mentally to handle situations like this had they been integrated into the first team more intelligently. Oh well.
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We need Alec Baldwin's character from Glengarry Glenn Ross to come in. "Put. The. Coffee. DOWN!"
(http://jackmalcolm.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/glengarry-glen-ross-alec-baldwin-11.jpg)
He would have my full support
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That Luke Shaw was a handly player. He won't be there much longer. He's way better than any of our 'youth'
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I agree with you one hundred percent VillaAlways. Paul Lambert's stubbornness is right at the root of our problems.
I really do believe that Randy Lerner is willing to put up the funds to bring in players to save our premiership status but that willingness has to be translated into signatures on paper and bodies in Villa shirts.
All my Villa instincts tell me that Paul Lambert will not make sufficient effort or urgency to turn the owners willingness into reality of a better, less defeat prone squad because he, Lambert sees changes from his cheap, young team ethos as a personal defeat.
It will be the easiest thing for Lambert to do to an owner on the other side of the Atlantic to say he went after this player and this player and that player and that other player but it did not work out for this reason and that reason. Lambert will defy instructions to get reinforcements in and take the hit when we go down. He knows they will be very very reluctant to sack him whatever happens because they have such a history of managerial appointment foul ups.
In a nutshell, Lambert will play brinkmanship and he personally will win. The club of course and the owner will lose massively.
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It will be the easiest thing for Lambert to do to an owner on the other side of the Atlantic to say he went after this player and this player and that player and that other player but it did not work out for this reason and that reason. Lambert will defy instructions to get reinforcements in and take the hit when we go down. He knows they will be very very reluctant to sack him whatever happens because they have such a history of managerial appointment foul ups.
It shouldn't work like that. Lambert should have a list of players for each position he wants to strengthen, listed in order of priority. It is then up to the club to work down that list until they start getting somewhere with it.
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I agree with you one hundred percent VillaAlways. Paul Lambert's stubbornness is right at the root of our problems.
I really do believe that Randy Lerner is willing to put up the funds to bring in players to save our premiership status but that willingness has to be translated into signatures on paper and bodies in Villa shirts.
All my Villa instincts tell me that Paul Lambert will not make sufficient effort or urgency to turn the owners willingness into reality of a better, less defeat prone squad because he, Lambert sees changes from his cheap, young team ethos as a personal defeat.
It will be the easiest thing for Lambert to do to an owner on the other side of the Atlantic to say he went after this player and this player and that player and that other player but it did not work out for this reason and that reason. Lambert will defy instructions to get reinforcements in and take the hit when we go down. He knows they will be very very reluctant to sack him whatever happens because they have such a history of managerial appointment foul ups.
In a nutshell, Lambert will play brinkmanship and he personally will win. The club of course and the owner will lose massively.
while i agree he's stubborn and has probably brought into the whole "buy young/cheap players" mantra when he took the job, I find it hard to believe Lambert's that cynical. I'm also not sure what he would "win". Breaking all sorts of negative club records and genuinely buggering up on a massive scale will hardly do anything for his reputation unless we're paying him so much he doesn't have to work again after getting the bullet.
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I agree with you one hundred percent VillaAlways. Paul Lambert's stubbornness is right at the root of our problems.
I really do believe that Randy Lerner is willing to put up the funds to bring in players to save our premiership status but that willingness has to be translated into signatures on paper and bodies in Villa shirts.
All my Villa instincts tell me that Paul Lambert will not make sufficient effort or urgency to turn the owners willingness into reality of a better, less defeat prone squad because he, Lambert sees changes from his cheap, young team ethos as a personal defeat.
It will be the easiest thing for Lambert to do to an owner on the other side of the Atlantic to say he went after this player and this player and that player and that other player but it did not work out for this reason and that reason. Lambert will defy instructions to get reinforcements in and take the hit when we go down. He knows they will be very very reluctant to sack him whatever happens because they have such a history of managerial appointment foul ups.
In a nutshell, Lambert will play brinkmanship and he personally will win. The club of course and the owner will lose massively.
If that's the case then Lerner should sack him and make the reasons public.
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Sorry Greg but I genuinely think he is capable of being that cynical. People look after their own interests. His best career option is to follow the (lucrative) route of O'Neill and McLeish and get another good job on the strength of the excuse that Lerner did not back him. The alternative is to stay put and reinvent himself as a pragmatic, flexible, diplomatic, communicative manager and I do not think he is capable of that.
He also knows that Lerner and Faulkner have form for not putting their side of the case so if he does pursue a deliberate policy of benign neglect in this window, no proof of it will ever emerge so the "Lerner never backed me" alibi will never be challenged.
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Sorry Greg but I genuinely think he is capable of being that cynical. People look after their own interests. His best career option is to follow the (lucrative) route of O'Neill and McLeish and get another good job on the strength of the excuse that Lerner did not back him. The alternative is to stay put and reinvent himself as a pragmatic, flexible, diplomatic, communicative manager and I do not think he is capable of that.
He also knows that Lerner and Faulkner have form for not putting their side of the case so if he does pursue a deliberate policy of benign neglect in this window, no proof of it will ever emerge so the "Lerner never backed me" alibi will never be challenged.
If he is doing that, then the club should be buying not him, and he should be given just the coaching side. I doubt he doing it though.
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I can see Brian's point.Pl mentioned lack of funds friday by Sunday the press
have been fed information that there is cash.They would have been direction from board on spending but Lambert choose players he wanted and he picks the squad and tatics so poor performances are down to him.
My worry is his stats and Norwich fans tell a story of a manager who's teams are not the best at the back.If we cant stop conceding we have no chance of staying up.As it is it taking 40 points as safety we need 7 wins from 16 games..
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I can see Brian's point.Pl mentioned lack of funds friday by Sunday the press
have been fed information that there is cash.They would have been direction from board on spending but Lambert choose players he wanted and he picks the squad and tatics so poor performances are down to him.
My worry is his stats and Norwich fans tell a story of a manager who's teams are not the best at the back.If we cant stop conceding we have no chance of staying up.As it is it taking 40 points as safety we need 7 wins from 16 games..
I think 6 will do it, but it is not going to happen is it.
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He needed to be sacked after the Southampton game to give us any chance of survival,he wasn't , we will go down. No other club in the country would have tolerated those results. None. But the clubs mantra under Randy is bury your head in the sand and hope it all goes away. They've been lucky so far as we've scraped survival by the skin of our teeth. I fear our luck has run out this season
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He needed to be sacked after the Southampton game to give us any chance of survival,he wasn't , we will go down. No other club in the country would have tolerated those results. None. But the clubs mantra under Randy is bury your head in the sand and hope it all goes away. They've been lucky so far as we've scraped survival by the skin of our teeth. I fear our luck has run out this season
Wigan. They wouldn't have sacked him, they've had worse results and runs and they're still here.
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He needed to be sacked after the Southampton game to give us any chance of survival,he wasn't , we will go down. No other club in the country would have tolerated those results. None. But the clubs mantra under Randy is bury your head in the sand and hope it all goes away. They've been lucky so far as we've scraped survival by the skin of our teeth. I fear our luck has run out this season
Wigan. They wouldn't have sacked him, they've had worse results and runs and they're still here.
Can't remember Wigan being battered by a 4th division side. The most humiliating result in our history
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I can see Brian's point.Pl mentioned lack of funds friday by Sunday the press
have been fed information that there is cash.They would have been direction from board on spending but Lambert choose players he wanted and he picks the squad and tatics so poor performances are down to him.
My worry is his stats and Norwich fans tell a story of a manager who's teams are not the best at the back.If we cant stop conceding we have no chance of staying up.As it is it taking 40 points as safety we need 7 wins from 16 games..
I think 6 will do it, but it is not going to happen is it.
We have only one six in the last 12 months, I don't see how we are now supposed to get 6+ wins in the next 4 months
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I agree with you one hundred percent VillaAlways. Paul Lambert's stubbornness is right at the root of our problems.
I really do believe that Randy Lerner is willing to put up the funds to bring in players to save our premiership status but that willingness has to be translated into signatures on paper and bodies in Villa shirts.
All my Villa instincts tell me that Paul Lambert will not make sufficient effort or urgency to turn the owners willingness into reality of a better, less defeat prone squad because he, Lambert sees changes from his cheap, young team ethos as a personal defeat.
It will be the easiest thing for Lambert to do to an owner on the other side of the Atlantic to say he went after this player and this player and that player and that other player but it did not work out for this reason and that reason. Lambert will defy instructions to get reinforcements in and take the hit when we go down. He knows they will be very very reluctant to sack him whatever happens because they have such a history of managerial appointment foul ups.
In a nutshell, Lambert will play brinkmanship and he personally will win. The club of course and the owner will lose massively.
If that's the case then Lerner should sack him and make the reasons public.
you are assuming he isnt looking for reinforcements at the moment then? as with nearly all the transfers in the summer bar the vlaar one we held our cards very close to our chest till the very last moment, we could be like newcastle and the remy deal when we announce he is coming, get him on a plane, harry reads it and then goes and signs him. As in lock, stock and 2 smoking barrels, 'assumption is the mother of all fuck ups'!
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I can see Brian's point.Pl mentioned lack of funds friday by Sunday the press
have been fed information that there is cash.They would have been direction from board on spending but Lambert choose players he wanted and he picks the squad and tatics so poor performances are down to him.
My worry is his stats and Norwich fans tell a story of a manager who's teams are not the best at the back.If we cant stop conceding we have no chance of staying up.As it is it taking 40 points as safety we need 7 wins from 16 games..
I think 6 will do it, but it is not going to happen is it.
We have only one six in the last 12 months, I don't see how we are now supposed to get 6+ wins in the next 4 months
While I understand the pessimism about our chances of picking up wins we surely don't need 6+. We're on 19 points. If we need 40, which we might not, that's 21 points. So 6 wins plus 3 draws or 5 wins plus 6 draws would do it.
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I doubt that Lambert is so stubborn as to be holding out on buying in the hope that the combination of the current bunch plus returning injured players will save us. The problem with that is that, even if Lerner had offered funds, he wouldn't know who to go after anyway. There is no chance that he / PF would have the front to demand that this player or that player is purchased. By now, with the offer of funds having been refused, they would have become exasperated and sacked him while there was a chance. My view is that there are limited players available that a shoestring budget can buy. However, to get us out of trouble, we don't have to buy world beaters, we need the right kind of player for the job. The job of the manager and his scouting network is to find them. Someone, somewhere, is fiddling while Rome burns. It could, of course, be both Lerner and Lambert.
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I doubt that Lambert is so stubborn as to be holding out on buying in the hope that the combination of the current bunch plus returning injured players will save us. The problem with that is that, even if Lerner had offered funds, he wouldn't know who to go after anyway. There is no chance that he / PF would have the front to demand that this player or that player is purchased. By now, with the offer of funds having been refused, they would have become exasperated and sacked him while there was a chance. My view is that there are limited players available that a shoestring budget can buy. However, to get us out of trouble, we don't have to buy world beaters, we need the right kind of player for the job. The job of the manager and his scouting network is to find them. Someone, somewhere, is fiddling while Rome burns. It could, of course, be both Lerner and Lambert.
You old sceptic jon!
I think money is there but not much , but agree someone should have been signed by now, we are dropping points waiting.
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Sorry Greg but I genuinely think he is capable of being that cynical. People look after their own interests. His best career option is to follow the (lucrative) route of O'Neill and McLeish and get another good job on the strength of the excuse that Lerner did not back him. The alternative is to stay put and reinvent himself as a pragmatic, flexible, diplomatic, communicative manager and I do not think he is capable of that.
He also knows that Lerner and Faulkner have form for not putting their side of the case so if he does pursue a deliberate policy of benign neglect in this window, no proof of it will ever emerge so the "Lerner never backed me" alibi will never be challenged.
I'm not so sure. There's a big difference between flirting with relegation like TSM did, or walking out after finishing 6th like MON, and taking us out of the PL on the back of horrendous performances. For a club our size and the amount of time in the premiership it is a pretty damming thing to have on your CV whatever the circumstances. I can't see Steve Kean getting a decent gig anytime soon after blackburn and Villa going down would be bigger news.
Besides, have you seen him lately? Seems to be visibly ageing by 5 years after each game. If that's him being relaxed/cynical about the situation i'd hate to see him worried.
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Sorry Greg but I genuinely think he is capable of being that cynical. People look after their own interests. His best career option is to follow the (lucrative) route of O'Neill and McLeish and get another good job on the strength of the excuse that Lerner did not back him. The alternative is to stay put and reinvent himself as a pragmatic, flexible, diplomatic, communicative manager and I do not think he is capable of that.
He also knows that Lerner and Faulkner have form for not putting their side of the case so if he does pursue a deliberate policy of benign neglect in this window, no proof of it will ever emerge so the "Lerner never backed me" alibi will never be challenged.
so you think his best interest is in taking us down and having a relegation on his cv?
surely his best interest is in keeping us up and then building on it next season. This current squad have the makings of a decent premier squad - as they gain in experience and with a 3 or 4 of the right additions.
do you not think that we have been unlucky with the players that have been injured i.e. most of the experienced ones?
do you not think that by trotting out the line that the kids are fine and are good enough to keep us up, he is publicly backing them and trying to build up their confidence?
do you not think that he has been under instruction to get rid of the overpaid prima donnas who only just managed to keep us up last season and replace them with players on half of their wages or less who can do as good a job?
do you not think that he is following party lines when trotting out the message that there is no money available to sign experienced premier league players? (this may well have changed since the Southampton game anyway)
do you not think that Lambert would rather still be Villa manager next season, in the premier league, and make a success of it? This is the biggest job he has ever had and if he screws this up, he won't get a crack at another big job.
None of us know what goes on in the background so maybe you are right but personally I can't see it myself. I think his hands have been tied to what he can and can't do regarding the squad and if he can keep them up this season, then we will see more of the old guard disposed of in the summer and he might just then be able to bring in some players of higher quality and more experience that can then push us forwards.
I still have faith that he is the man for the job long term, although I will admit that the faith is being severely tested. If, as I like to believe, he is working with all the constraints that I have suggested, then I think most managers would struggle, certainly most managers that we would be capable of attracting to the villa.
Steve Mclaren anyone? no - thought not!!!
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He will gain more praise for keeping us up, rather than taking us down then bringing us back up - or even walking away.
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I'm very worried that PL is a very stubborn man who seems to have an aversion to signing players above league one.
Like Vlarr - Dutch International, KEA - Moroccan International, Guzan - American International, Benteke - Belgian International.
It's also makes little sense to call him stubborn over his transfer targets on the basis of one transfer window.
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I'm very worried that PL is a very stubborn man who seems to have an aversion to signing players above league one.
Like Vlarr - Dutch International, KEA - Moroccan International, Guzan - American International, Benteke - Belgian International.
It's also makes little sense to call him stubborn over his transfer targets on the basis of one transfer window.
He does come accross as stubborn, just look at the way he sets his teams up. He has only one strategy and it aint working
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He does come accross as stubborn, just look at the way he sets his teams up. He has only one strategy and it aint working
I tend to disagree. He has used a number of formations this season. 4-4-2. 4-5-1. 3-5-1 etc etc
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3-5-1 etc etc
That's why we keep losing then!
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Still got the old W formation to try. 2-3-5. You need good full backs with that.
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He does come accross as stubborn, just look at the way he sets his teams up. He has only one strategy and it aint working
I tend to disagree. He has used a number of formations this season. 4-4-2. 4-5-1. 3-5-1 etc etc
Definitely the strangest criticism I've read. Lambert had a reputation for changing formations mid game before he came to Villa and he's done nothing to change that reputation, in fact if anything the criticism should be that he tinkers too much.
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He does come accross as stubborn, just look at the way he sets his teams up. He has only one strategy and it aint working
I tend to disagree. He has used a number of formations this season. 4-4-2. 4-5-1. 3-5-1 etc etc
Definitely the strangest criticism I've read. Lambert had a reputation for changing formations mid game before he came to Villa and he's done nothing to change that reputation, in fact if anything the criticism should be that he tinkers too much.
He definitely changes formation when we lose the ball after one of our attacks. It's called the shambles formation. I have yet to see any other clubs employ this revolutionary tactic.
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He does come accross as stubborn, just look at the way he sets his teams up. He has only one strategy and it aint working
I tend to disagree. He has used a number of formations this season. 4-4-2. 4-5-1. 3-5-1 etc etc
Definitely the strangest criticism I've read. Lambert had a reputation for changing formations mid game before he came to Villa and he's done nothing to change that reputation, in fact if anything the criticism should be that he tinkers too much.
Stubborn in terms of not changing tactics, he may well change formations but the end resulting tactic is still the same.
He has his own view on players and recruiting which at the moment has proved ill thought out and a failure but my view is that he is too stubborn to change even it even it benefited us in the short term
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He has his own view on players and recruiting which at the moment has proved ill thought out and a failure but my view is that he is too stubborn to change even it even it benefited us in the short term
I think I would repeat what has already been said in the transfer thread - one window isn't really enough time to come to that conclusion. At the end of January we'll see where we are.
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He does come accross as stubborn, just look at the way he sets his teams up. He has only one strategy and it aint working
I tend to disagree. He has used a number of formations this season. 4-4-2. 4-5-1. 3-5-1 etc etc
Definitely the strangest criticism I've read. Lambert had a reputation for changing formations mid game before he came to Villa and he's done nothing to change that reputation, in fact if anything the criticism should be that he tinkers too much.
He definitely changes formation when we lose the ball after one of our attacks. It's called the shambles formation. I have yet to see any other clubs employ this revolutionary tactic.
Its comes to something when we can't even agree what tactics he actually employs, I tend to agree that its the shambles formation!
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I can't believe some of the stuff in this thread.
So Paul Lambert has a secret plan to be shit - get relegated - sacked - paid off - and then blame Lerner? Has H&V moved office? Is the rent cheaper on Fantasy Island?
Lambert haters please understand this. No one who works at the top of any field got there because they love money. They got there because they love what they do and as a result put in the hard hours when money isn't even a consideration. By that passion and hard work they find success - and money then follows.
To suggest that Lambert will be happy because he'll get paid off and 'never have to work again' is to completely misunderstand what motivates real talent.
A poll on whether or not to sack the manager seems myopic to me but in the broad scope of the season I suppose it is fair enough - but to revive it on the back of some tonkings after the first poll didn't fit the agenda is pathetic.
Shortly after we beat Liverpool at Anfield and made the semis of the League Cup everyone was upbeat - now, after a string of bad results and some dodgy performances we are doomed.
Villa are playing kids - and they can be good kids - but they are learning the hard way. Inconsistency was always going to be part of this season.
We were mugged at Bradford and it was unexpected and it hurt- but ffs - it's half-time in the League Cup and half-time in the Premier League. Lambert and the players will be moving heaven and earth behind closed doors to put things right. Villa will improve - of that I am sure - whether they will improve enough I cannot say.
But I look at the facts of the case and I know both owner and manager and squad all want the best for our club. And I'm sorry - shit we have been yes - but we are not only shit - when we have played well - we've been great. And that is something I never saw even once last season under TSM.
We are not dead yet - nor ever will be.
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I'm no Lambert hater, but we weren't mugged at Bradford. We lsot due to poor finishing, good goalkeeping and atrocious defending.
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when we have played well - we've been great. And that is something I never saw even once last season under TSM.
Outside of a few games we have been poor for the most part this season.
I really have not seen any improvement over last season in fact allot of our play has been worse.
With the results we have had and the position we are in, in any other season Lambert would be toast
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Inconsistency was always going to be part of this season.
We've won 4 league games out of 22. That's not inconsistent, it's terrible.
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I disagree there Mark. There has been a change in play noticably in that our team try far harder to "play" football through the middle. That may not be a blessing with out midfield as it stands. But the pass back to Given/Collins to the lump it to the oppositions backline has reduced. The ricks and mistakes still happen, but by young lads that are really wanting to play for us. You can see it as they come off. They are gutted. Last year you felt a bit like some were just coming off "oh well". The results have not improved. But the effort has. In fairness to TSM.... that result at Chelski was a bit of alright.
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when we have played well - we've been great. And that is something I never saw even once last season under TSM.
Outside of a few games we have been poor for the most part this season.
I really have not seen any improvement over last season in fact allot of our play has been worse.
With the results we have had and the position we are in, in any other season Lambert would be toast
you haven't seen any improvement? Some of the football we have played this season has been fantastic, unfortunately only in patches in some games though.
This has been mixed in with games where we have looked very ordinary, a couple where we have looked terrible and some very inept defensive performances which have got worse as the season has gone on, not helped by injuries to key players and lack of confidence.
no-one can pretend that the season has been anywhere near good enough but there have been glimpses of what could be a decent future - if only we can survive this season and escape relegation
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Inconsistency was always going to be part of this season.
We've won 4 league games out of 22. That's not inconsistent, it's terrible.
It is consistent, just consistently terrible.
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no-one can pretend that the season has been anywhere near good enough but there have been glimpses of what could be a decent future - if only we can survive this season and escape relegation
I'm sure all teams who end up being relegated can point to the odd decent performance and result. The point is that they don't do it very often, and therefore go down. With us being the worst at goal scoring and defending, it's clear that for 90% of the season, we have been absolute shite.
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no-one can pretend that the season has been anywhere near good enough but there have been glimpses of what could be a decent future - if only we can survive this season and escape relegation
I'm sure all teams who end up being relegated can point to the odd decent performance and result. The point is that they don't do it very often, and therefore go down. With us being the worst at goal scoring and defending, it's clear that for 90% of the season, we have been absolute shite.
We're very much like West Ham when they went down.The odd shock performance here and there like when they beat ManU in the cup 4-0 and Liverpool 3-1 and got to the semis in the cup.They stuck with the same manager and went down
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no-one can pretend that the season has been anywhere near good enough but there have been glimpses of what could be a decent future - if only we can survive this season and escape relegation
I'm sure all teams who end up being relegated can point to the odd decent performance and result. The point is that they don't do it very often, and therefore go down. With us being the worst at goal scoring and defending, it's clear that for 90% of the season, we have been absolute shite.
We're very much like West Ham when they went down.The odd shock performance here and there like when they beat ManU in the cup 4-0 and Liverpool 3-1 and got to the semis in the cup.They stuck with the same manager and went down
Glenn Roeder. Wasn't he seriously ill that year, and they kept the position open for him, and he came back and they fired him after 1 or 2 games the following season? Classy behaviour.
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no-one can pretend that the season has been anywhere near good enough but there have been glimpses of what could be a decent future - if only we can survive this season and escape relegation
I'm sure all teams who end up being relegated can point to the odd decent performance and result. The point is that they don't do it very often, and therefore go down. With us being the worst at goal scoring and defending, it's clear that for 90% of the season, we have been absolute shite.
We're very much like West Ham when they went down.The odd shock performance here and there like when they beat ManU in the cup 4-0 and Liverpool 3-1 and got to the semis in the cup.They stuck with the same manager and went down
Glenn Roeder. Wasn't he seriously ill that year, and they kept the position open for him, and he came back and they fired him after 1 or 2 games the following season? Classy behaviour.
I was thinking more of the Avram Grant season a couple of years back and they had Scott Parker in their midfield who we would kill to have in ours
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The concern I have is that the other teams at the bottom have either got a manager with the experience of relegation battles (Wigan for example), money to spend (QPR) or a recent record of fighting the tide (Reading).
At the moment, we do not appear to be showing any of these characteristics.
Oh, and I voted Lambert in; I just don't see an effective alternative.
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Well now Guardiola has tied his colours to the Bayern mast I'm expecting a massive leap in the support of Lambert, let's face it he was the only viable option.
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I can't believe some of the stuff in this thread.
So Paul Lambert has a secret plan to be shit - get relegated - sacked - paid off - and then blame Lerner? Has H&V moved office? Is the rent cheaper on Fantasy Island?
Lambert haters please understand this. No one who works at the top of any field got there because they love money. They got there because they love what they do and as a result put in the hard hours when money isn't even a consideration. By that passion and hard work they find success - and money then follows.
To suggest that Lambert will be happy because he'll get paid off and 'never have to work again' is to completely misunderstand what motivates real talent.
A poll on whether or not to sack the manager seems myopic to me but in the broad scope of the season I suppose it is fair enough - but to revive it on the back of some tonkings after the first poll didn't fit the agenda is pathetic.
Shortly after we beat Liverpool at Anfield and made the semis of the League Cup everyone was upbeat - now, after a string of bad results and some dodgy performances we are doomed.
Villa are playing kids - and they can be good kids - but they are learning the hard way. Inconsistency was always going to be part of this season.
We were mugged at Bradford and it was unexpected and it hurt- but ffs - it's half-time in the League Cup and half-time in the Premier League. Lambert and the players will be moving heaven and earth behind closed doors to put things right. Villa will improve - of that I am sure - whether they will improve enough I cannot say.
But I look at the facts of the case and I know both owner and manager and squad all want the best for our club. And I'm sorry - shit we have been yes - but we are not only shit - when we have played well - we've been great. And that is something I never saw even once last season under TSM.
We are not dead yet - nor ever will be.
sonlyme makes some excellent points. Good post.
Like Mr E, I only voted 'In' out of fear of Shtevie McLeren (/Curbs/Keegan/DiMatteo/whoever) arriving now Guardiola has committed to Bayern.
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Pretty speech sonlyme, but where is Aston Villa's next win coming from?
Over reaction is always likely when results are bad, but it's the nature of the performances and the disturbing lack of confidence, leadership and quality in the side which is the worry and the club is currently in freefall.
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We really do have to start showing some fight on and off the pitch. The players need to sweat blood for every second of the rest of the season, and the management ( Lambert ,Lerner,Faulkner) need to fight tooth and nail to get some very badly needed quality and experienced players in.I'm absolutely sick of watching our rivals piss all over us in every aspect while we plummet towards oblivion.Factory of sadness? Factory of madness more like!
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Villa are playing kids - and they can be good kids - but they are learning the hard way. Inconsistency was always going to be part of this season.
Hardly kids. That's been done to death. Inconsistency has been ALL of this season.
But I look at the facts of the case and I know both owner and manager and squad all want the best for our club. And I'm sorry - shit we have been yes - but we are not only shit - when we have played well - we've been great. And that is something I never saw even once last season under TSM.
What facts have you got that they all want the best for the club? We have been shit more often than not. There is no improvement from last season. The results are there to see. You can't just throw the McLeish card in to prove a point.
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We played well on occasion last year, the games against Arsenal and Chelsea for example.
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no-one can pretend that the season has been anywhere near good enough but there have been glimpses of what could be a decent future - if only we can survive this season and escape relegation
I'm sure all teams who end up being relegated can point to the odd decent performance and result. The point is that they don't do it very often, and therefore go down. With us being the worst at goal scoring and defending, it's clear that for 90% of the season, we have been absolute shite.
Aye.
And some of the relegation fodder of recent years can probably point to 10-15 minute spells in matches where they haven't looked completely shite. It's not enough.
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We played well on occasion last year, the games against Arsenal and Chelsea for example.
We played well on occasion last year, the games against Arsenal and Chelsea for example.
Blackburn (h) Norwich (h) Bolton (a) QPR (h) second half
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I disagree there Mark. There has been a change in play noticably in that our team try far harder to "play" football through the middle. That may not be a blessing with out midfield as it stands. But the pass back to Given/Collins to the lump it to the oppositions backline has reduced. The ricks and mistakes still happen, but by young lads that are really wanting to play for us. You can see it as they come off. They are gutted. Last year you felt a bit like some were just coming off "oh well". The results have not improved. But the effort has. In fairness to TSM.... that result at Chelski was a bit of alright.
Maybe at the start of the season, but in recent games the long punt from Guzan to Benteke has been our primary tactic.
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The long ball to Benteke has increased in recent games hardly suprising has the midfield is so weak.
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Its what I would employ, given how poor the midfield is.
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3-5-1 etc etc
That's why we keep losing then!
:(
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The long ball to Benteke has increased in recent games hardly suprising has the midfield is so weak.
Yep and it's coincided with him struggling.
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I can't believe some of the stuff in this thread.
So Paul Lambert has a secret plan to be shit - get relegated - sacked - paid off - and then blame Lerner? Has H&V moved office? Is the rent cheaper on Fantasy Island?
Lambert haters please understand this. No one who works at the top of any field got there because they love money. They got there because they love what they do and as a result put in the hard hours when money isn't even a consideration. By that passion and hard work they find success - and money then follows.
To suggest that Lambert will be happy because he'll get paid off and 'never have to work again' is to completely misunderstand what motivates real talent.
A poll on whether or not to sack the manager seems myopic to me but in the broad scope of the season I suppose it is fair enough - but to revive it on the back of some tonkings after the first poll didn't fit the agenda is pathetic.
Shortly after we beat Liverpool at Anfield and made the semis of the League Cup everyone was upbeat - now, after a string of bad results and some dodgy performances we are doomed.
Villa are playing kids - and they can be good kids - but they are learning the hard way. Inconsistency was always going to be part of this season.
We were mugged at Bradford and it was unexpected and it hurt- but ffs - it's half-time in the League Cup and half-time in the Premier League. Lambert and the players will be moving heaven and earth behind closed doors to put things right. Villa will improve - of that I am sure - whether they will improve enough I cannot say.
But I look at the facts of the case and I know both owner and manager and squad all want the best for our club. And I'm sorry - shit we have been yes - but we are not only shit - when we have played well - we've been great. And that is something I never saw even once last season under TSM.
We are not dead yet - nor ever will be.
Wow, some common sense. That might not go down too well here.
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I agree, we've played well in parts, and that suggests green shoots of what we want to do in the future.
However, as others have said, we also managed the odd decent performance under McLeish (Arsenal at home, Chelsea away).
What Lambert has to do is prove that the decent stuff we have seen this season wasn't just fluke, and that it was tangible evidence of what we are trying to do starting to show through.
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I agree, we've played well in parts, and that suggests green shoots of what we want to do in the future.
However, as others have said, we also managed the odd decent performance under McLeish (Arsenal at home, Chelsea away).
What Lambert has to do is prove that the decent stuff we have seen this season wasn't just fluke, and that it was tangible evidence of what we are trying to do starting to show through.
We have played well in patches, but unfortunately those patches date back over a month now. We've been pretty dreadful since the beginning of December. That is a long period of dross, and there doesn't seem to be a coherant plan to address it at the moment. We look by far the poorest team in the league currently, and there are no real signs of that improving.
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We've played well in very small patches, but just as last year these have proved to be the exceptions rather than building blocks for anything concrete. And as I keep saying, lots of teams try to play nice football, like Wigan for example, who are perennial relegation battlers (under their manager who Sonlyme wanted instead of Lambert in the summer I might add). Trying to play some nice football with largely rubbish footballers doesn't get you very far unfortunately.
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We've played well in very small patches, but just as last year these have proved to be the exceptions rather than building blocks for anything concrete. And as I keep saying, lots of teams try to play nice football, like Wigan for example, who are perennial relegation battlers (under their manager who Sonlyme wanted instead of Lambert in the summer I might add). Trying to play some nice football with largely rubbish footballers doesn't get you very far unfortunately.
It's too early to say whether they are isolated patches or the beginnings of something, but our problem right now is not the playing style, but rather the defending. We can't do much going forward when we're picking the ball out of the back of our own net every 10 minutes and that also breeds the lack of confidence we've seen that is limiting the better players playing the sort of football I think/hope they can.
Lambert needs to sort us out the basics at the back before he can be properly judged on what he's trying to evolve us into playing wise.
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Well our defence is also causing it's own problems by hoofing the ball forward. If we could retain possesion it was ease a lot of pressure on the defence.
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ChelsTransferGossip @ChelsTransfer
The response from Roberto Di Matteo's camp with regards to the Aston Villa enquiry has been encouraging (Daily Express) #CFC #AVFC
Expand Reply Retweeted Favorite More
6m ChelsTransferGossip @ChelsTransfer
Aston Villa have approached Di Matteo's representatives to enquire if he would be interested to takeover as manager #CFC #AVFC (Express)
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ChelsTransferGossip @ChelsTransfer
The response from Roberto Di Matteo's camp with regards to the Aston Villa enquiry has been encouraging (Daily Express) #CFC #AVFC
Expand Reply Retweeted Favorite More
6m ChelsTransferGossip @ChelsTransfer
Aston Villa have approached Di Matteo's representatives to enquire if he would be interested to takeover as manager #CFC #AVFC (Express)
Wow.
When @ChelsTransfer speaks, the world sits up and listens.
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I don't know, lets wait for the confirmation from AVFCMysteryMan.
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ChelsTransferGossip @ChelsTransfer
The response from Roberto Di Matteo's camp with regards to the Aston Villa enquiry has been encouraging (Daily Express) #CFC #AVFC
Expand Reply Retweeted Favorite More
6m ChelsTransferGossip @ChelsTransfer
Aston Villa have approached Di Matteo's representatives to enquire if he would be interested to takeover as manager #CFC #AVFC (Express)
Wow.
When @ChelsTransfer speaks, the world sits up and listens.
And then dozes off.
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ChelsTransferGossip @ChelsTransfer
The response from Roberto Di Matteo's camp with regards to the Aston Villa enquiry has been encouraging (Daily Express) #CFC #AVFC
Expand Reply Retweeted Favorite More
6m ChelsTransferGossip @ChelsTransfer
Aston Villa have approached Di Matteo's representatives to enquire if he would be interested to takeover as manager #CFC #AVFC (Express)
Has anyone told them we don't want the c**t?
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I don't know, lets wait for the confirmation from AVFCMysteryMan.
Don't know whether that is tongue in cheek, Sandy. However, if the club have started to drip feed their intentions via supposedly ITK posters, to test the water, then it is fucking outrageous.
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no-one can pretend that the season has been anywhere near good enough but there have been glimpses of what could be a decent future - if only we can survive this season and escape relegation
I'm sure all teams who end up being relegated can point to the odd decent performance and result. The point is that they don't do it very often, and therefore go down. With us being the worst at goal scoring and defending, it's clear that for 90% of the season, we have been absolute shite.
I agree. If QPR go down then beating Chelsea away will be irrelevant, nice memory but irrevelant just like Blackburn winning at Old Trafford last season or even dare I say us winning at Anfield.
BTW were we not decent in winning at Chelsea last season. A fluke but still a very good result and performance.
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If we sacked Lambert after the WBA game then you'd really have to question the club's decision making process. 11 days or less to get a manager in and buy players? The window for changing the manager was this week and that was cutting it fine. If Di Matteo is being lined up now then it just reeks of total panic to me.
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If we sacked Lambert after the WBA game then you'd really have to question the club's decision making process. 11 days or less to get a manager in and buy players? The window for changing the manager was this week and that was cutting it fine. If Di Matteo is being lined up now then it just reeks of total panic to me.
Is the right answer.
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After the TSM dibacle nothing would suprise me with Randy and PF
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After the TSM dibacle nothing would suprise me with Randy and PF
Nor me. Wouldn't surprise me if they bought in Peter Pannu as Director of Football.
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Di Matteo and his 'camp' can piss off. No point in changing the manager n ow, especially for an average one.
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I agree, we just need someone who can arrange a defence and someone to show a midfielder how to make a sucessful tackle.
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After the TSM dibacle nothing would suprise me with Randy and PF
Sadly, I agree.
Thinking back to that appointment, I still can't believe they were that stupid.
I dread to think who they'd appoint next.
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If we sacked Lambert after the WBA game then you'd really have to question the club's decision making process. 11 days or less to get a manager in and buy players? The window for changing the manager was this week and that was cutting it fine. If Di Matteo is being lined up now then it just reeks of total panic to me.
This is where a decent DoF would fit in.
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After the TSM dibacle nothing would suprise me with Randy and PF
Sadly, I agree.
Thinking back to that appointment, I still can't believe they were that stupid.
I dread to think who they'd appoint next.
To be fair to them, they couldn't have foreseen that on being given £25m to spend on a squad that TSM kept up, that Lambert would perform quite so poorly.
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I dread to think who they'd appoint next.
Steve Bruce.
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If they got rid of Lambert(I hope they don't) I'd rather they went back for Solskjaer.
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the only appointment they got horribly wrong was TSM, admittedly it was as wrong as you could get but they at least rectified the mistake pretty quickly
there were good reasons for Houlier he he had a proven record, whether you liked him or not it was not madness to give him the job,
so he had a heart complaint, there are plenty of people in stressfull jobs who have suffered the same, including Harry, they dont all end up on the scrap heap, obviously his problem reacured and that was it, but in know way was it a major mistake to appoint him in the first place,
i think he could have done well for Villa
then we have Lambert, well he topped the poll on here, so he couldnt have been that bad a choice, it certainly didnt seem like board room stupidity to bring him in at the time, and i still think that even though we have been through the worst set of results in history the majority want to give him more time, as i do
so the board have made mistakes in appointing managers, but only the one big one, we shouldnt exagerate that
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After the TSM dibacle nothing would suprise me with Randy and PF
Sadly, I agree.
Thinking back to that appointment, I still can't believe they were that stupid.
I dread to think who they'd appoint next.
To be fair to them, they couldn't have foreseen that on being given £25m to spend on a squad that TSM kept up, that Lambert would perform quite so poorly.
If it were as simple as that, I'd agree.
There were a number of players they also needed to get rid of though, so it wasn't a pure £25m was it? In addition to that, you need to factor in that the older players were on higher salaries and though there was £25m to spend, it was on the basis that anyone brought in wouldn't cost as much in wages.
So, spend all this money, get rid of the high earners, but also, increase the size of the squad, improve the quality, and cost us less on an ongoing basis. Plus keep the fans happy and off my back, you know I like a quiet life.
There aren't any other managers out there that work under that sort of brief, other than perhaps David Moyes; who, let's face it, is widely regarded as being one of the very best.
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3-5-1 etc etc
That's why we keep losing then!
:(
I'm thinking we should pack the defence, the midfield and increase our artillery up front. How about a 5-5-4 with a couple of spider 'keepers that can handle the ball anywhere?
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It would take more than Di Matteo to keep this lot up, if we don't get new players in we are fucked, whoever the manager is.
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Lambert needs to view this Adkins thing as a wake up call. We must improve and get the players we need quickly.
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the only appointment they got horribly wrong was TSM, admittedly it was as wrong as you could get but they at least rectified the mistake pretty quickly
there were good reasons for Houlier he he had a proven record, whether you liked him or not it was not madness to give him the job,
so he had a heart complaint, there are plenty of people in stressfull jobs who have suffered the same, including Harry, they dont all end up on the scrap heap, obviously his problem reacured and that was it, but in know way was it a major mistake to appoint him in the first place,
i think he could have done well for Villa
then we have Lambert, well he topped the poll on here, so he couldnt have been that bad a choice, it certainly didnt seem like board room stupidity to bring him in at the time, and i still think that even though we have been through the worst set of results in history the majority want to give him more time, as i do
so the board have made mistakes in appointing managers, but only the one big one, we shouldnt exagerate that
Disagree, thought GH was a poor appointment too, years out of the game behind a desk at that bastion of footballing professionalism the FFA (They'd all just been on strike before a World Cup) and had serious health issues.
And let's not get too misty eyed about GH, he showed O'Learyesque ignorance about the Clubs history, surrendered matches on a number of occasions and didn't sort out of defensive issues. We were shite under GH and then sold our better players to become shitter still.
With the best will in the world, he should never have been offered the job.
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Totally agree OzVilla.
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Totally agree OzVilla.
And me
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Pretty speech sonlyme, but where is Aston Villa's next win coming from?
West Bromwich will do for me.
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Does Lambert look more jaded at the moment, he doesn't look like he's got any spark in the interviews or has he always came across this dreary.
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Does Lambert look more jaded at the moment, he doesn't look like he's got any spark in the interviews or has he always came across this dreary.
I thought so.He also trots out the same lines every single week but with less conviction each time
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Does Lambert look more jaded at the moment, he doesn't look like he's got any spark in the interviews or has he always came across this dreary.
I thought so.He also trots out the same lines every single week but with less conviction each time
There are only so many ways of reflecting on similar results. The only other thing he can do is to criticise individuals and nobody wants that.
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After the TSM dibacle nothing would suprise me with Randy and PF
Sadly, I agree.
Thinking back to that appointment, I still can't believe they were that stupid.
I dread to think who they'd appoint next.
To be fair to them, they couldn't have foreseen that on being given £25m to spend on a squad that TSM kept up, that Lambert would perform quite so poorly.
I may be wrong but were you not saying it was £20m last week (it was actually £19.5m net). I assume you made a mistake and have not deliberately used a higher amount to try and magnify the situation.
Also, it was not as if he had the money to add to the squad but to replace:
(i) 2 fullbacks that most were saying needed replacing
(ii) a striker that couldn't score goals and we paid a fortune every week for the privilage
(iii) a central defender that we wanted off the books as his wage did not match what we were getting from him
(iv) a central defender he decided to sell to raise money
Were there any of the above that you would not have tried to replace last summer
Did you ever come up with a realistic alternative to PL?
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Opta statistics: under McLeish, Villa, on average, scored more goals, conceded fewer goals, picked up more points, registered more shots, made more crosses and won more tackles. McLeish's season, lest it be forgotten, went down as one of the bleakest on record at Villa
A quote from a Guardian article.
Puts PL's term into perspective
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You beat me to that quote MarkM! That Grauniad article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/18/aston-villa-decline-finances-randy-lerner) about us makes very interesting reading
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Guaranteed at least £60 million from TV next year, just shows how it's madness that we're not investing in the squad.
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You beat me to that quote MarkM! That Grauniad article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/18/aston-villa-decline-finances-randy-lerner) about us makes very interesting reading
A spot on assessment, but Christ it's a hard read.
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Guaranteed at least £60 million from TV next year, just shows how it's madness that we're not investing in the squad.
Well true but as the article stated we have had 3 previous managers who done 'lots of investing' and we are in the shit. We need a couple of experienced bods with points to prove and a couple of loan signings. An we can't afford to pay them really big wages - fuck me that is what has gotten us into this mess in the first place.
The fact that the fuckwits who signed players on long term contracts without a relegation reducting wages clause (the Porn magnates over at the Sty managed that) will kill us next season and we will be another Leeds.
Here's some investment people have been advocating - we can sack Lambert and pay him a few million quid and who knows thereafter hire Dimatteo and pay Chelsea a couple of million as well thrown in.
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Here's some investment people have been advocating - we can sack Lambert and pay him a few million quid and who knows thereafter hire Dimatteo and pay Chelsea a couple of million as well thrown in.
This might just be me being thick, but why would we have to pay Chelsea a couple of million if we appointed Di Matteo? Not that we should appoint him anyway, but surely he's a free agent?
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You beat me to that quote MarkM! That Grauniad article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/18/aston-villa-decline-finances-randy-lerner) about us makes very interesting reading
A spot on assessment, but Christ it's a hard read.
It is a tough read but the photo of the empty seating is harsh. That's the away section possibly against Wigan
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You beat me to that quote MarkM! That Grauniad article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/18/aston-villa-decline-finances-randy-lerner) about us makes very interesting reading
A spot on assessment, but Christ it's a hard read.
It is a tough read but the photo of the empty seating is harsh. That's the away section possibly against Wigan
Wigan were in the Lower tier.
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You beat me to that quote MarkM! That Grauniad article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/18/aston-villa-decline-finances-randy-lerner) about us makes very interesting reading
Ok,the point is, it's the away section !!!!, so who was it?
A spot on assessment, but Christ it's a hard read.
It is a tough read but the photo of the empty seating is harsh. That's the away section possibly against Wigan
Wigan were in the Lower tier.
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Out. Im convinced now if we stay up it will be despite of him, terrible substitution and came out like they'd all had a 15 minute kip at half time.
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Out. Im convinced now if we stay up it will be despite of him, terrible substitution and came out like they'd all had a 15 minute kip at half time.
That's the worry for me, he just can't seem to motivate them to play or inspire confidence for a full 90 minutes.
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-24 second half goal difference.
Doesn't help that we cannot bring on anyone in midfield with anything like enough quality but does it suggest also other teams are reacting to what happens and adjust accordingly ? I just don't know with them now need a boost from somewhere a late winner, just anything, even the draws lately are games thrown away.
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His substitutions are terrible.
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When he disappeared down the tunnel in the 2nd half, I thought Villa were going to be the first club in history to sack a manager during a game.
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When he disappeared down the tunnel in the 2nd half, I thought Villa were going to be the first club in history to sack a manager during a game.
We wouldn't be the first (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/07/chichester-city-sack-manager-during-game). By phone, no less.
"During the second half I had a call from Gary Walker, one of the directors, who said he was sorry to interrupt me and then told me I'd been sacked,"
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I dread to think who they'd appoint next.
Steve Bruce.
Bruce said he could never after his experience at Newcastle and TSM at Villa
On the other hand Gary Megson never said anything of the sort
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You beat me to that quote MarkM! That Grauniad article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/18/aston-villa-decline-finances-randy-lerner) about us makes very interesting reading
A spot on assessment, but Christ it's a hard read.
It is a tough read but the photo of the empty seating is harsh. That's the away section possibly against Wigan
Wigan were in the Lower tier.
it was wigan last season.
but, yeah, a very bleak piece.
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i'm still in the 'out' camp, but there's little point changing this month at least, because of the transfer window. It's too late for a new guy so we will have to hope Lerner backs Lambert moneywise. After the transfer window its a different matter as it comes down to whether Lambert can motivate the existing players better than a new guy. Today was better. I can take us being shit but not completely clueless, so although we were shit 2nd half its a step up from recent performances.
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i'm still in the 'out' camp, but there's little point changing this month at least, because of the transfer window. It's too late for a new guy so we will have to hope Lerner backs Lambert moneywise. After the transfer window its a different matter as it comes down to whether Lambert can motivate the existing players better than a new guy. Today was better. I can take us being shit but not completely clueless, so although we were shit 2nd half its a step up from recent performances.
Am confused by this as you want him out, but not until after the transfer window?
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The idea that Lerner would be able to sack Lambert and get somebody else in in less than a month is unreal. So why people think that he would be able to do so and let the new manager go out and buy players in 11 days is just plain crazy but then again, some of the players that some fans think we could get in is along the same line of thinking.
Rebuilding the squad completely was always going to take time and a big risk considering the little money the manager was given to replace players, let alone improve the squad over night. Lambert has shown elsewhere what he can do and what we are seeing this season is not what he is capable of. To my mind it is a reflection of the quality of the squad and not the manager. Too many experienced players under performing alongside young players whose confidence is very low and lack of leadership on the pitch. Brian Clough was a great manager but his final season was a reflection of the quality of the team, not his managerial ability (even though the drink had the better of him at the time).
It seems that these days people want somebody to be accountable for failure and that the person should be sacked. The feeling is that the next person will always do a better job.
I would stick with Lambert for at least two seasons. We need some stability at the club. We also need another season or two to rid the club of over paid and under performing players. People go on about MON leaving an over paid playing legacy but McLeish went down the same path with Given, Hutton and to some extent, CNZ. We have to learn that, if you over pay players and they do not perform, you will not be able to sell them as other clubs see no value in paying the same wages to the player and these days there are very few players that will take a cut in wages to move on.
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You beat me to that quote MarkM! That Grauniad article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/18/aston-villa-decline-finances-randy-lerner) about us makes very interesting reading
A spot on assessment, but Christ it's a hard read.
It is a tough read but the photo of the empty seating is harsh. That's the away section possibly against Wigan
Wigan were in the Lower tier.
it was wigan last season.
but, yeah, a very bleak piece.
And one which points to the failings of the club owner rather than the managers who can only work with the cards they are dealt with.
I think Lambert has to stay until at least next December irrespective of whether we are relegated or not. What he is trying to do needs time, and the one thing Villa desperately need is an end to the managerial (and by extension playing staff) swinging door.
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i dont believe in keeping a manager just for stability,
he has to be the right manager or at least one who can take the club forward otherwise there is no point and you need to get rid asap
what amazes me is that we have been through the worst set of results in history and still the manager gets 75%+ in the keep poll,
thats incredible really, and even at the matches there is no move against him in fact quite the opposite his name is sung all the time,
i like this because it sugests that people even though looking at the facts in the cold light of day which are bad, they still think Lambert is the man to turn things around and they still believe he is building something which in time can be succesfull,
Lambert gains a lot of time because of the last man in, and because of the high turnover of managers/caretakers over the last 4 years, people are fed up so are willing to give him more of a go than maybe they would otherwise, Lambert needs to make the most of this.
i personaly dont care about his accent or demeaner in press conferences, he sounds ok to me actually, i thought yesterday he was very animated and looked a leader on the touchline and not the 'dead man walking' which i've seen posted a few times on here,
his body language to me said he is up for the fight
there is a plan he is working to, he is building a young team from scratch, some dont think its working, i do think it will work i just hope it works well enough to escape relegation which is a real threat,
you only have to look at yetserdays game to see how different we play when we are confident and how fragile and vulnerable we are when under pressure, but we are not as bad a team as some suggest in my view, there is plenty of quality to work with, and some great football that is being played at times and great goals scored
Benteke is awsome and Lambert has every reason to feel good about him as he bought him, he could turn out to be one of the best centre forwards we have seen at VP, if he stays long enough
on to Tuesday, keep the faith
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I think if randy was going to make the change he would have done so a week or more ago- any new man would need at least a couple of weeks in the transfer market- its probably likely lambert will stay , if we do go down i do not think he should or will be at the helm next season .
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i'm still in the 'out' camp, but there's little point changing this month at least, because of the transfer window. It's too late for a new guy so we will have to hope Lerner backs Lambert moneywise. After the transfer window its a different matter as it comes down to whether Lambert can motivate the existing players better than a new guy. Today was better. I can take us being shit but not completely clueless, so although we were shit 2nd half its a step up from recent performances.
Am confused by this as you want him out, but not until after the transfer window?
Just logic really. Who's got more chance of turning it round? A new manager with no signings or Lambert with hopefully a few in? If come mid-february there's still no improvement then we might as well have one last roll of the dice, and hope a new guy can motivate the squad we have.
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Motivation also needs to come from within, such as on the pitch.
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i'm still in the 'out' camp, but there's little point changing this month at least, because of the transfer window. It's too late for a new guy so we will have to hope Lerner backs Lambert moneywise. After the transfer window its a different matter as it comes down to whether Lambert can motivate the existing players better than a new guy. Today was better. I can take us being shit but not completely clueless, so although we were shit 2nd half its a step up from recent performances.
Am confused by this as you want him out, but not until after the transfer window?
Just logic really. Who's got more chance of turning it round? A new manager with no signings or Lambert with hopefully a few in? If come mid-february there's still no improvement then we might as well have one last roll of the dice, and hope a new guy can motivate the squad we have.
Sacking Lambert now or mid Feb would mean we've gone through this shit storm of a season for nothing. You cannot expect a manager to come into a club that has floundered in the bottom half of the table for a few years and change things in a matter of months. I honestly believe we've got the right man for job as did probably 90% of us in the summer, the biggest problem is some probably under estimated the situation at VP.
For the record I don't believe we'll go down but if we do I would not change the manager because of my first point we've got to give this a proper chance to work because I can't see another way of us moving forward under the current ownership.
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For:Benteke
Westwood
Vlaar
N'zogs form
Weimann
Style of football
Against:Position
Do i think he is a good manager?.....bizarrely after yday yes.Played good attacking football, Benteke is as good a foward as i have seen down VP, Yorkie, and Sir Brian included, Westwood has a touch of Alex Cropley about him, and we saw how much Vlaar was worth to us yday.I think if he is allowed to spend a bit of money this transfer window then we will be easily safe, and allow him to bring a couple of decent signings in the summer, then we are not far off.
Guzan, Baker, Vlaar, Westwood, Weimann, and Benteke is a good base for a reasonable team, add to that an improving N'Zog, a more determined Gabby, Darren Bent, and SI, who could still be very good players at VP with a bit more self-motivation, and a good young player in Bennett coming through, we are not far off.
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Well its all linked. Confidence, motivation etc... Half our problem after the chelsea game was the players lost confidence in what Lambert was trying to do. He should have shut up shop and taken a 4 nil loss. At least that would have protected the players a bit. After that game, some of the players were obviously not entirely convinced by his tactics so you got the fragmented performances we've seen where some players were ignoring him and reverting to what they've done in the past.. Someone made a good point on the post-match southampton thread about at one stage most of our midfield were within 5 feet of each other while the one guy was on the wing. You don't need to have an opposition player with Cruyff-like vision to exploit the gaps. He needs to regain their trust and if he doesn't then let a new guy have a go at playing a system they believe in.
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Well its all linked. Confidence, motivation etc... Half our problem after the chelsea game was the players lost confidence in what Lambert was trying to do. He should have shut up shop and taken a 4 nil loss. At least that would have protected the players a bit. After that game, some of the players were obviously not entirely convinced by his tactics so you got the fragmented performances we've seen where some players were ignoring him and reverting to what they've done in the past.. Someone made a good point on the post-match southampton thread about at one stage most of our midfield were within 5 feet of each other while the one guy was on the wing. You don't need to have an opposition player with Cruyff-like vision to exploit the gaps. He needs to regain their trust and if he doesn't then let a new guy have a go at playing a system they believe in.
If we keep turning over managers at one a season we will end up like Wolves or Blackburn. I can't see that the players don't trust Lambert I honestly can't see where your coming from there yes he should've tightened up at Chelsea but did the player lose their trust for him then I don't see that at all.
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Well its all linked. Confidence, motivation etc... Half our problem after the chelsea game was the players lost confidence in what Lambert was trying to do. He should have shut up shop and taken a 4 nil loss. At least that would have protected the players a bit. After that game, some of the players were obviously not entirely convinced by his tactics so you got the fragmented performances we've seen where some players were ignoring him and reverting to what they've done in the past.. Someone made a good point on the post-match southampton thread about at one stage most of our midfield were within 5 feet of each other while the one guy was on the wing. You don't need to have an opposition player with Cruyff-like vision to exploit the gaps. He needs to regain their trust and if he doesn't then let a new guy have a go at playing a system they believe in.
If we keep turning over managers at one a season we will end up like Wolves or Blackburn. I can't see that the players don't trust Lambert I honestly can't see where your coming from there yes he should've tightened up at Chelsea but did the player lose their trust for him then I don't see that at all.
Well how do you explain some of the games in the last month when marking or any sort of formation seemed to go out the door. I can't believe he told them to play like that so it sort of hints its the players mind-set thats the problem. Like it or not if your letting in shedloads of goals then its hard to be very confident in the way the manager wants you to play.
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I see the logic in keeping a manager long term but only if it is the correct manager , i wanted lambert for the job but have been very disappointed with some of his selections, tactics , formations - i think tuesdays result will have a huge bearing on our season .
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Well its all linked. Confidence, motivation etc... Half our problem after the chelsea game was the players lost confidence in what Lambert was trying to do. He should have shut up shop and taken a 4 nil loss. At least that would have protected the players a bit. After that game, some of the players were obviously not entirely convinced by his tactics so you got the fragmented performances we've seen where some players were ignoring him and reverting to what they've done in the past.. Someone made a good point on the post-match southampton thread about at one stage most of our midfield were within 5 feet of each other while the one guy was on the wing. You don't need to have an opposition player with Cruyff-like vision to exploit the gaps. He needs to regain their trust and if he doesn't then let a new guy have a go at playing a system they believe in.
If we keep turning over managers at one a season we will end up like Wolves or Blackburn. I can't see that the players don't trust Lambert I honestly can't see where your coming from there yes he should've tightened up at Chelsea but did the player lose their trust for him then I don't see that at all.
Well how do you explain some of the games in the last month when marking or any sort of formation seemed to go out the door. I can't believe he told them to play like that so it sort of hints its the players mind-set thats the problem. Like it or not if your letting in shedloads of goals then its hard to be very confident in the way the manager wants you to play.
Confidence and lack of experience throughout the team but not lack of trust in the manager. These are young players they will look up to Lambert, if he had an older squad here who've been around other managers maybe dis trust but not this young group.
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Motivation also needs to come from within, such as on the pitch.
3 new signings would soon instill some motivation into our current lot.
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Well its all linked. Confidence, motivation etc... Half our problem after the chelsea game was the players lost confidence in what Lambert was trying to do. He should have shut up shop and taken a 4 nil loss. At least that would have protected the players a bit. After that game, some of the players were obviously not entirely convinced by his tactics so you got the fragmented performances we've seen where some players were ignoring him and reverting to what they've done in the past.. Someone made a good point on the post-match southampton thread about at one stage most of our midfield were within 5 feet of each other while the one guy was on the wing. You don't need to have an opposition player with Cruyff-like vision to exploit the gaps. He needs to regain their trust and if he doesn't then let a new guy have a go at playing a system they believe in.
If we keep turning over managers at one a season we will end up like Wolves or Blackburn. I can't see that the players don't trust Lambert I honestly can't see where your coming from there yes he should've tightened up at Chelsea but did the player lose their trust for him then I don't see that at all.
Well how do you explain some of the games in the last month when marking or any sort of formation seemed to go out the door. I can't believe he told them to play like that so it sort of hints its the players mind-set thats the problem. Like it or not if your letting in shedloads of goals then its hard to be very confident in the way the manager wants you to play.
In my view it's explained, to a large extent, by a succession of injuries and subsequent loss of confidence. We've been forced into playing players out of position although you might get away with that for a game or two eventually it catches up with you. I think the first half yesterday demonstrated how much more confident we looked by having a bit of experience back on the pitch, again injuries disrupted things and the old problems surfaced in the second half but it did show what we are capable of when we can put our better players on the pitch at the same time.
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Well its all linked. Confidence, motivation etc... Half our problem after the chelsea game was the players lost confidence in what Lambert was trying to do. He should have shut up shop and taken a 4 nil loss. At least that would have protected the players a bit. After that game, some of the players were obviously not entirely convinced by his tactics so you got the fragmented performances we've seen where some players were ignoring him and reverting to what they've done in the past.. Someone made a good point on the post-match southampton thread about at one stage most of our midfield were within 5 feet of each other while the one guy was on the wing. You don't need to have an opposition player with Cruyff-like vision to exploit the gaps. He needs to regain their trust and if he doesn't then let a new guy have a go at playing a system they believe in.
If we keep turning over managers at one a season we will end up like Wolves or Blackburn. I can't see that the players don't trust Lambert I honestly can't see where your coming from there yes he should've tightened up at Chelsea but did the player lose their trust for him then I don't see that at all.
Well how do you explain some of the games in the last month when marking or any sort of formation seemed to go out the door. I can't believe he told them to play like that so it sort of hints its the players mind-set thats the problem. Like it or not if your letting in shedloads of goals then its hard to be very confident in the way the manager wants you to play.
Confidence and lack of experience throughout the team but not lack of trust in the manager. These are young players they will look up to Lambert, if he had an older squad here who've been around other managers maybe dis trust but not this young group.
aye. its thats old cliche that peddled anytime a manager is doing badlly. He's lost the dressing room - well i don't think he has, but he's fucked over their confidence, both in themselves and his tactics imo and he needs to get it back quick. As i said in my earlier post, we were shit 2nd half but not the disorganised rabble we've seen in some of the preceeding games. That's something to build on and a draw with a clean sheet would be a godsend, probably more than 3-2 win.
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Well its all linked. Confidence, motivation etc... Half our problem after the chelsea game was the players lost confidence in what Lambert was trying to do. He should have shut up shop and taken a 4 nil loss. At least that would have protected the players a bit. After that game, some of the players were obviously not entirely convinced by his tactics so you got the fragmented performances we've seen where some players were ignoring him and reverting to what they've done in the past.. Someone made a good point on the post-match southampton thread about at one stage most of our midfield were within 5 feet of each other while the one guy was on the wing. You don't need to have an opposition player with Cruyff-like vision to exploit the gaps. He needs to regain their trust and if he doesn't then let a new guy have a go at playing a system they believe in.
If we keep turning over managers at one a season we will end up like Wolves or Blackburn. I can't see that the players don't trust Lambert I honestly can't see where your coming from there yes he should've tightened up at Chelsea but did the player lose their trust for him then I don't see that at all.
Well how do you explain some of the games in the last month when marking or any sort of formation seemed to go out the door. I can't believe he told them to play like that so it sort of hints its the players mind-set thats the problem. Like it or not if your letting in shedloads of goals then its hard to be very confident in the way the manager wants you to play.
In my view it's explained, to a large extent, by a succession of injuries and subsequent loss of confidence. We've been forced into playing players out of position although you might get away with that for a game or two eventually it catches up with you. I think the first half yesterday demonstrated how much more confident we looked by having a bit of experience back on the pitch, again injuries disrupted things and the old problems surfaced in the second half but it did show what we are capable of when we can put our better players on the pitch at the same time.
yep. there's no doubt the injuries and lack of cover have contributed massively to our problems
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The problem with inexperienced players is that you can send them out with a game plan to face up to the opposition but if the opposition change tactically during the game, inexperience sometimes means that you can adapt quickly enough on the pitch. That is why you need leaders on the pitch to reorganise. The manager can only do so much from the sidelines which is usually limited to getting messages to his captain to make changes. Older pros make the necessary changes easily but with younger players it sometimes just confuses them. That, I believe, is what happened against Chelsea and to a lesser extent since then.
We were a bit unlucky yesterday with Jacob getting injured as Clarke was forced to bring on Thomas which changed the way Albion set themselves up. This meant that they were able to get a player in behind our wingback and constantly getting a run on Lowton.
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Will PL still be in the job if we dont beat Bradford and get to Wembley? I'd much rather not find out the result of that scenario and be discussing how we're going to beat our opponents in the final.
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The problem with inexperienced players is that you can send them out with a game plan to face up to the opposition but if the opposition change tactically during the game, inexperience sometimes means that you can adapt quickly enough on the pitch. That is why you need leaders on the pitch to reorganise. The manager can only do so much from the sidelines which is usually limited to getting messages to his captain to make changes. Older pros make the necessary changes easily but with younger players it sometimes just confuses them. That, I believe, is what happened against Chelsea and to a lesser extent since then.
We were a bit unlucky yesterday with Jacob getting injured as Clarke was forced to bring on Thomas which changed the way Albion set themselves up. This meant that they were able to get a player in behind our wingback and constantly getting a run on Lowton.
They didn't even do that really. They just got the ball wide as early as possible and for some reason our wingbacks were left one-on-one with their wingers. For the majority of the second half we were almost playing with a flat back five and our wing backs hardly got forward.
Also, the number of times in the last few games that we have been caught on the break off our own throw ins in the final third and our own corners is inexplicable.
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They didn't even do that really. They just got the ball wide as early as possible and for some reason our wingbacks were left one-on-one with their wingers. For the majority of the second half we were almost playing with a flat back five and our wing backs hardly got forward...
Which is an interesting point, Tom.
At Chelsea we suffered because the manager did not respond to the oppo's tactics of isolating our 3 centre-backs using Hazard and Moses. He could have pushed Herd into midfield and gone 4 at the back but Lambert did not take this option and we got mullered.
Yesterday it appears as if a similar scenario took place where, in the second half, Albion pushed on early and wide: the obvious thing to do would have been to go flat back four. Whether, with the niggly injuries we were getting, we had the personnel to do that I'm not sure, but it does raise the questions of adequate resources on the bench and the ability to change tactics partway through a game.
On the latter point, PL was lauded at Norwich for his ability to switch tactics in response to the opposition.
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... That is why you need leaders on the pitch to reorganise. The manager can only do so much from the sidelines which is usually limited to getting messages to his captain to make changes. Older pros make the necessary changes easily but with younger players it sometimes just confuses them. That, I believe, is what happened against Chelsea and to a lesser extent since then.
I know what you're saying here, but most of these kids (well, 23 and under) have been playing organised and perhaps high-level footie for perhaps 10 years. They have worked with various coaches and been in academies and played under close scrutiny in a professional environment.
So, why are they less adaptable than the older pros?
I know that experience is important - as in any job - but I just don't get it, given the environment in which many of these kids have been working in!
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He needs us to play like we did in the first half, also not make bonkers decision like Holman for N'Zog.
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... That is why you need leaders on the pitch to reorganise. The manager can only do so much from the sidelines which is usually limited to getting messages to his captain to make changes. Older pros make the necessary changes easily but with younger players it sometimes just confuses them. That, I believe, is what happened against Chelsea and to a lesser extent since then.
I know what you're saying here, but most of these kids (well, 23 and under) have been playing organised and perhaps high-level footie for perhaps 10 years. They have worked with various coaches and been in academies and played under close scrutiny in a professional environment.
So, why are they less adaptable than the older pros?
I know that experience is important - as in any job - but I just don't get it, given the environment in which many of these kids have been working in!
These players may have been at the club for 6 or 7 years but youth and reserve team football is played to set tactics that the club want to develop with limited adjustment during games to suit opponents. They tend to concentrate more on their own game and less on the opposition. Stepping up to PL level is a completely different environment where you can come up against world class players who have that ability to see weaknesses and exploit them without the manager on the sideline telling them.
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I defy anyone to tell me they still want Lambert as our manager after this.
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That's it for me, sack him now.
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Anyone who defends him now is clinically insane.
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Reset
Was massively in favour of him staying.....
Knock yourselves out....
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OUT! Plumbing new depths every single fucking week. The man is a joke, a clown, an imbecile. Fuck!!!
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Got to go i'm afraid.
I'm dreading his post match bullshit.
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yep, out for me now. panicked after they scored and completely lost the plot.
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Get rid now , our only hope of survival is to ditch lambert!
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The whole hierarchy of the club needs changing not just the manager!
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Reset
Was massively in favour of him staying.....
Knock yourselves out....
At the time I reckon you were right, but the last few weeks have been dire.
We've been in the shit all season under him, it's just the depth that varies.
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I've been for keeping Lambert until now but he must be gotten rid of, fucking embarasment to go out for fucking Bradford.
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The whole hierarchy of the club needs changing not just the manager!
That could take a lot longer, but there's no reason to not give Lambert his marching orders.
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I've been for keeping Lambert until now but he must be gotten rid of, fucking embarasment to go out for fucking Bradford.
Hopefully this will be the owners view now. If not, god help us :(
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I have tried, and tried to stay with him.
But taking off all width tonight was woeful.
Not signing a centre back by 22nd Jan
No defensive midfielder by now.
No tactical clue in the second half of games.
Set piece madness every fucking game.
I am tired of it. The pain is too much, and the odd decent result to keep me going has gone.
I want him to succeed and if he stays I support Villa, but I am now at the point where if he goes it might be best for all concerned.
Shocking night. No manager should survive the run of results we have been put through.
Thoroughly depressed.
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Has to go for me.
Can't see him being sacked though. Probably if we lose at Millwall and don't beat Newcastle but by then the window will pretty much be closed.
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Worse than Billy McNeill. I just pray we can find a new Sir Graham to Get us back up.
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Too late to change now Imo, if we were going to do it it should have been after Southampton.
However, that's the only real defence i have for it at the moment.
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Worse than McLeish and McNeill combined.
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Is sad. We all wanted it to work. To continue now us stupidity.
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The whole hierarchy of the club needs changing not just the manager!
That could take a lot longer, but there's no reason to not give Lambert his marching orders.
That's the thing, I agree the ownership needs changing but without a buyer then that's not going to happen. However after that and the manner of it he has to go. He negated all our threat through his panic and clueless tactics.
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Sorry, Paul. Your future planning leaves us with no present.
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If Lambert is our best hope of staying up..... we're screwed. He's got to go now.
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See ya !
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there is no doubt he deserves his P45 but think its too late now with the window closing and doubt lerner will pay up his contract
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I hope he's gone already. I've never, ever been so embarrassed to be a Villa fan as I have under him, quite so many times. There's useless, and then there's Lambert. A mumbling shambles of a man.
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But if Lambert went, can you imagine who these clowns would come up with next?
Although I believe they'll sit on their hands for this one.
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We need to change the structure and have a DOF and Manager IMO. Due to the shit football nature of our board. That way, the football decision will be sound. Houllier would have been great in the role.
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
About 8 points worse off.
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Surely a manager coming in to give them a bit of confidence, and to organise the defence correctly would help keep us up. With Lambert i can only see it getting worse.
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Sir Brian Little was saying he was looking to get back into football again, Heres a great chance for the great man.
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But if Lambert went, can you imagine who these clowns would come up with next?
Although I believe they'll sit on their hands for this one.
Hughes and RDM would probably in top of the list and I can't imagine either of them doing any worse.
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Away from his comfy Norfolk retreat, Lambert dosen't have a clue, appears to be bluffing and more than likely wil take us down.
Fcuk do I want him "rebuilding" us in the championship.
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Nigel Adkins could do better.
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Sir Brian Little was saying he was looking to get back into football again, Heres a great chance for the great man.
Was thinking this. Sir Brian and Gareth Southgate. Couldn't do worse.
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Hughes has 2 points with a much stronger squad at QPR and comes with a bigger entourage than Beyonce.
RDM I am not a fan of either.
Adkins had Southampton playing well..... worth a look...
No more Scottish managers though. Not now.
Little and Gregory would do for me for 6 months you know.
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This is as embarrassed as I've ever been as a Villa fan, we're a laughing stock today. For that he has to go.
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Statistically he is worse than McLeish....so.....
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I hate to have to do it, but this is the bottom for me. It won't happen, but change before it is too late. Thing is realistically, what are the options and I don't think anyone can come in, especially with less than two weeks left of the window and do anything. Paddles gone Shit Creek dead ahead
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Statistically he is worse than McLeish....so.....
I don't think statistics need even come into it. We've got eyes. Enough of kidding ourselves of some kind of masterplan. He is worse than McNeill. Never ever thought I'd say that about any manager.
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How about a poll on Lerner in or out?
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Must go tonight.
Di Matteo in. Now.
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How about a poll on Lerner in or out?
Exactly!
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We can't have an effect on that, and Lerner gave Lambert, and Eck, 20 million ish each in their first summers, so for his mistakes he has been poor, but managers have been backed.
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How about a poll on Lerner in or out?
You can't sack an owner. You can sack a bumbling incompetent shambles of "manager".
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The guys completely clueless. I turned it off after they scored we were never gone get back in to it. I've seen to many games and wasted so much time for fook all.
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How about a poll on Lerner in or out?
Exactly!
With respect, why? "Lerner out" is like saying "Cameron Out". Who is going to but us in tie to make a difference this season?
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Every time the cameras panned to him in the last 10th minutes he looked like he was about to cry. I don't see how he can survive this.
Commentators seemed to think it was an open secret that he was gone if we didn't get through.
If that's true then it's further evidence of the shambles we've become. Maybe Lerner thought that this would be his Fergie moment.
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Always has been and always we be 'OUT'
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All I can think is if they are going to pot him, which they have every right too, I hope they have sounded out a replacement.
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Who is going to but us in tie to make a difference this season?
I don't know what you're on about there.
I do feel like i've been butt fucked by Lambert though.
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All I can think is if they are going to pot him, which they have every right too, I hope they have sounded out a replacement.
We're such a shambles, that almost anybody would improve us. Get Laursen in, Southgate, John Gregory, Bryan Small, Prince William, anybody.
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Who is going to but us in tie to make a difference this season?
I don't know what you're on about there.
I do feel like i've been butt fucked by Lambert though.
Haha.
Who is going to *buy* us in time to make a difference this season. However I feel like I've been butted in the face numerous times since early December. 2011.
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Mark 'Couldn't stop a pig in an alleyway' Kinsella couldn't do worse as player manager.
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It is getting harder and harder to defend a man who's team defends worse than a team of traffic cones.
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There are no signs whatsoever that we're moving in the right direction but plenty that we're moving in the wrong direction.
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Probably wasn't a good choice of manager, but we were largely pleased when he was appointed. Not sure if a new manager will make much of a difference to our fate this season which is looking more likely than not to involve relegation.
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Unless you appoint someone close to the club and knows the weaknesses i.e Gregory then you are left with a new manager who will want to give all the players a go at proving themselves and frankly we don't have time for that. The only way out is for Lerner to open his wallet big time otherwise we are down.
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I've removed my vote and voted again just for the pleasure of voting for him to be sacked twice.
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Like I have been saying for far too long now Faulkner is the problem.If Lambert walks,Faulkner had better follow him out the door.
CEO don't make me laugh.
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Unless you appoint someone close to the club and knows the weaknesses i.e Gregory then you are left with a new manager who will want to give all the players a go at proving themselves and frankly we don't have time for that. The only way out is for Lerner to open his wallet big time otherwise we are down.
Hes spent £23m and made a poor team even shitter.
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Even more than the points on the board (or the lack of) I'm fed up with our tactics. This is the same shit as with McLeish. Hooooff!!!
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Martin Laursen would galvanise things. Get Ollie in with him.
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Has he gone yet?
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Probably wasn't a good choice of manager, but we were largely pleased when he was appointed. Not sure if a new manager will make much of a difference to our fate this season which is looking more likely than not to involve relegation.
I said at the time that Lambert was the safe choice, rather than the rookie OGS. Well that 'safe choice' couldn't get us past Bradford over two legs and is on course to take us down.
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that's enough. Fuck off, and take Bennett with you.
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It's a catch 22 again.
There's no point in sacking him because there's nobody better (Ole Gunnar Solskjaer FFS) and it would put us back to square one again.
Not convinced that Lerner would be prepared to do that again
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that's enough. Fuck off, and take Bennett with you.
Bennett would make a cracking left side midfield player in a 4-4-2
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Well, why not get OGS in now and give him a chance at rescuing this, or plotting a promotion bid.
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I'd not be averse to taking a chance on Adkins now, to be honest. Decent job with Southampton, and a serious point to prove, I imagine.
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that's enough. Fuck off, and take Bennett with you.
Bennett would make a cracking left side midfield player in a 4-4-2
Good call.Do you want the managers job?
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It's a catch 22 again.
There's no point in sacking him because there's nobody better (Ole Gunnar Solskjær FFS) and it would put us back to square one again.
Not convinced that Lerner would be prepared to do that again
Well mac lerner will have to take the hit because it will take us a long time. To get back up.
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The benefit of getting a new manager in is inevitably you will pick up some points and wins under him no matter how shite the team is. Redknapp managed 6 points from his first 4 league games at QPR, Pochettino got a point the other night, even Lambert got 4 points from his first 4 league games.
We need points on the board by any means otherwise we will be relegated, we need minimum of 4 points from Newcastle and West Ham home games as the games after that are Everton, Arsenal and Man. City.
I'd be more confident of getting those points purely from new manager effect than with Lambert still in charge sadly.
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that's enough. Fuck off, and take Bennett with you.
Bennett would make a cracking left side midfield player in a 4-4-2
Good call.Do you want the managers job?
I'll give a reference, a good one too.
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Has he been fired yet?
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It's a catch 22 again.
There's no point in sacking him because there's nobody better (Ole Gunnar Solskjær FFS) and it would put us back to square one again.
Not convinced that Lerner would be prepared to do that again
Nobody better, how on earth do you come to that conclusion? He's been beyond abysmal, I'd take just about any out-of-work manager ahead of Lambert.
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Don't hate the bloke at all.
Hasn't patronised the club a la, O'Leary and McLeish at any stage. And no vindictive MON'esque behavior (though in fairness, if he was good enough, I'm sure he'd have had no problem bailing on us if a suitable offer came in).
Despite it all, I actually quite like him. And I reckon in time, he'll be a good manager.
Just not with us.
If we have any standards left, we can't gloss over losing to a Fourth Division side over two legs. He's accountable for that, for not addressing our shiteness from set pieces, and our general lack of shape since the Chelsea game.
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that's enough. Fuck off, and take Bennett with you.
Bennett would make a cracking left side midfield player in a 4-4-2
Good call.Do you want the managers job?
Love it.
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that's enough. Fuck off, and take Bennett with you.
Bennett would make a cracking left side midfield player in a 4-4-2
Good call.Do you want the managers job?
There's a good player in there, just goes to sleep defensively, if someone can get him concentrating he'll be fine. Looked very good in the first half, wonderful cross for the goal, great run just after and put in another cross in the 2nd half that it was criminal that we didn't score from.
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Has he been fired yet?
No,Nobody has woken Randy up from his afternoon nap.
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Has he been fired yet?
Hopefully out of a super cannon into the heart of the sun.
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Amazing how this poll has changed, from 86% 'IN' to 75% 'OUT' in a matter of a few games. I'm one of them. He is proven to be both unlucky and clueless, not a good combination, but I want Lerner out too. Ultimately, it's the Yank's fault!
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Bunch of hypocrites here. Majority want Lambert out however on the Either or thread 85% wanted us to get knocked out! You got your wish. Are you the same people?
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Lamberts tactics when they scored were a fucking shambles. Bent, Benteke and Gabby were stood within 10 yards of themselves instead of stretching their defence. No fecking width and no midfield. Have always stuck up for Lambert, but not after tonight, he was clueless
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Lambert has to be the most tactically inept manager in the Premiership. Tonight wasn't a one off, countless times this season we've suffered because of his formations and substitutions.
He has to go. I'd literally take any manager in the football league over him at the moment.
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I know money talks, but wouldn't it be nice for a bit if Keegan "I'm not good enough" honesty and resign.
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Has he been fired yet?
No,Nobody has woken Randy up from his afternoon nap.
Cletus Lerner won't sack him.
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Martin Laursen would galvanise things. Get Ollie in with him.
yep.
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It's a catch 22 again.
There's no point in sacking him because there's nobody better (Ole Gunnar Solskjær FFS) and it would put us back to square one again.
Not convinced that Lerner would be prepared to do that again
I'm not sure that's true, at the moment there are so many who would be better. I've been against sacking him, but the manner of our exit tonight has convinced me he hasn't got a clue.
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It's a catch 22 again.
There's no point in sacking him because there's nobody better (Ole Gunnar Solskjær FFS) and it would put us back to square one again.
Not convinced that Lerner would be prepared to do that again
Nobody better, how on earth do you come to that conclusion? He's been beyond abysmal, I'd take just about any out-of-work manager ahead of Lambert.
Quite. There's mountains of evidence to indicate that almost anybody would be better.
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Bunch of hypocrites here. Majority want Lambert out however on the Either or thread 85% wanted us to get knocked out! You got your wish. Are you the same people?
I wanted a trophy, now I want heads to roll!
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Bunch of hypocrites here. Majority want Lambert out however on the Either or thread 85% wanted us to get knocked out! You got your wish. Are you the same people?
Don't be daft.
The condition of Mac's was LOSE and get Premier safety.
Nobody WANTED us to lose. We all want Wembley AND safety.
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The benefit of getting a new manager in is inevitably you will pick up some points and wins under him no matter how shite the team is. Redknapp managed 6 points from his first 4 league games at QPR, Pochettino got a point the other night, even Lambert got 4 points from his first 4 league games.
We need points on the board by any means otherwise we will be relegated, we need minimum of 4 points from Newcastle and West Ham home games as the games after that are Everton, Arsenal and Man. City.
I'd be more confident of getting those points purely from new manager effect than with Lambert still in charge sadly.
We desperately need a spark from somewhere and if sacking the manager gives us that spark, then so be it! God, Lambert is absolutely dire!
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if you are going to build a side in the premier league, the young players already have to be better than players in the fourth tier
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Bunch of hypocrites here. Majority want Lambert out however on the Either or thread 85% wanted us to get knocked out! You got your wish. Are you the same people?
Don't be daft.
The condition of Mac's was LOSE and get Premier safety.
Nobody WANTED us to lose. We all want Wembley AND safety.
Instead we've been humiliated again by Bradford, and are still facing certain relegation.
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Has he gone yet? It has taken me 15 minutes to get home from the pub and I was absolutely certain he would have resigned
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if you are going to build a side in the premier league, the young players already have to be better than players in the fourth tier
well unless you are building a shit side
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Bunch of hypocrites here. Majority want Lambert out however on the Either or thread 85% wanted us to get knocked out! You got your wish. Are you the same people?
Pathetic. You seem to miss the point of a purely theoretical question. You really think Villa fans 'wished' our elimination to Bradford?
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He should be utterly ashamed.
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It's a catch 22 again.
There's no point in sacking him because there's nobody better (Ole Gunnar Solskjær FFS) and it would put us back to square one again.
Not convinced that Lerner would be prepared to do that again
Nobody better, how on earth do you come to that conclusion? He's been beyond abysmal, I'd take just about any out-of-work manager ahead of Lambert.
Quite. There's mountains of evidence to indicate that almost anybody would be better.
Can we add OzzJim to the poll?
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He will walk tonight
Poyet , Zola or Nigel Pearson
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Bunch of hypocrites here. Majority want Lambert out however on the Either or thread 85% wanted us to get knocked out! You got your wish. Are you the same people?
disagree, the tactical naivety tonight was too much, he made 2 terrible subs which destroyed any chance of us going through. If we'd got the same result but had been battering them getting crosses in and trying everything for the last half hour I'd back him but he reverted us to the most rank long ball crap imaginable. That was unforgivable for me, particularly given we'd shown in the first half that if we were patient and worked the ball around they couldn't cope with us.
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Bunch of hypocrites here. Majority want Lambert out however on the Either or thread 85% wanted us to get knocked out! You got your wish. Are you the same people?
Don't be daft.
The condition of Mac's was LOSE and get Premier safety.
Nobody WANTED us to lose. We all want Wembley AND safety.
Indeed and the manner of our exit summed up our problems nicely.
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Exactly. If anything, what people were 'wishing' for was to stay up.
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Bunch of hypocrites here. Majority want Lambert out however on the Either or thread 85% wanted us to get knocked out! You got your wish. Are you the same people?
Not hypocrites at all, and if we survive (fucking big 'if' though that) fair enough, but I'd wager that te vast majority, in fact no, ALL of us, would have voted for win the fucking cup AND survive if that had been an option! Nobody 'wanted' us to get knocked out FFS!
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He should resign.
The players clearly don't know what they're supposed to be doing.
If you could see what he was trying to do, then maybe give him more time, but there is no plan.
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No sign of Lambert giving any interviews on any site yet, hopefully this means he's just got in his car and driven off somewhere quiet to phone Lerner to resign.
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Said it before but the 'support' Risso and Fletcher give is shocking.. Both class A w××××××. You really are the lowest kind of fans.
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http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3049715,00.html
No match report on the OS.I think the are waiting for a letter.
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Said it before but the 'support' Risso and Fletcher give is shocking.. Both class A w××××××. You really are the lowest kind of fans.
Grow up silly boy.
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Said it before but the 'support' Risso and Fletcher give is shocking.. Both class A w××××××. You really are the lowest kind of fans.
Yes, it's all our fault. What utter scum we are.
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No sign of Lambert giving any interviews on any site yet, hopefully this means he's just got in his car and driven off somewhere quiet to phone Lerner to resign.
Hope so. Hard to believe he can carry on now.
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If that is a premiership manager, with that level of tactical knowledge and ability,we are truly fucked.
I have seen better football watching 6 year olds in the playground than what we witnessed for the last 40 minutes tonight.
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Said it before but the 'support' Risso and Fletcher give is shocking.. Both class A w××××××. You really are the lowest kind of fans.
Not again.
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No sign of Lambert giving any interviews on any site yet, hopefully this means he's just got in his car and driven off somewhere quiet to phone Lerner to resign.
LAMBERT 'Hullo...mmmmmrrrr....mmrrr....mumble....soz.'
LERNER 'Brandine, the dog gone speaky machine is broke.'
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Said it before but the 'support' Risso and Fletcher give is shocking.. Both class A w××××××. You really are the lowest kind of fans.
What, fans who don't want their club to be embarrassingly bad?
What weirdos.
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Bunch of hypocrites here. Majority want Lambert out however on the Either or thread 85% wanted us to get knocked out! You got your wish. Are you the same people?
Don't be daft.
The condition of Mac's was LOSE and get Premier safety.
Nobody WANTED us to lose. We all want Wembley AND safety.
Spot on
Madness has taken over...
Only Risso would enjoy the misery of both ;-)
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Said it before but the 'support' Risso and Fletcher give is shocking.. Both class A w××××××. You really are the lowest kind of fans.
Not again.
Risso and Fletcher OUT. What gives you the right for lofty ambitions
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Said it before but the 'support' Risso and Fletcher give is shocking.. Both class A w××××××. You really are the lowest kind of fans.
But they have been right all along.
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No sign of Lambert giving any interviews on any site yet, hopefully this means he's just got in his car and driven off somewhere quiet to phone Lerner to resign.
Hope so. Hard to believe he can carry on now.
There are some quotes from him on the BBC Sport website. I posted them on the post-match thread but here they are again:
2219:
Aston Villa 2-1 Bradford (Agg 3-4)
Aston Villa manager Paul Lambert: "That is the worst day of the season. We had two chances to do it and haven't done it.
"We've lost four goals from set-pieces over two games which is not good enough.
"I am embarrassed. We will never have a better chance to reach the final."
"The first half we played very well and got a good goal, but if we can't defend corners then that is not good enough. We are losing too many goals from set plays, you have to be able to defend a corner and that is the bottom line.
"You are going to be hurting no doubt but you have to pick yourself up. You have to get going again. That is football for you."
"We got the second goal but it was too little too late. It is no good doing that after the horse has bolted. You either lay down and accept it or come out fighting and you have to come out fighting. You will get criticism but you have to pick yourselves up and keep going.
"Good luck to Bradford and congratulations for going through. It is a great achievement and anything can happen in the final."
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Said it before but the 'support' Risso and Fletcher give is shocking.. Both class A w××××××. You really are the lowest kind of fans.
'Ah Mr Hippo, i've been expecting you.' (See page 11 post match thread)
Strokes overweight Tom Cat
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Tell me you're joking Hilts....that's a wind up, right, a hilarious Mark Fletcher parody...surely......
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'pick yourself up' Who had it in Lambert Bingo?
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Said it before but the 'support' Risso and Fletcher give is shocking.. Both class A w××××××. You really are the lowest kind of fans.
How many times are you gping to be allowed to insult other posters ? And you call them low?
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Said it before but the 'support' Risso and Fletcher give is shocking.. Both class A w××××××. You really are the lowest kind of fans.
Less of the insults please.... an apology is expected Hoppo. Mark, Risso and I have had different views, and hotly debated it, but at the end of the day we have to keep it a little bit civil in here at the moment. For all our sanity. Rant somewhere else about them. They love the Villa as much as anyone I know.
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Tell me you're joking Hilts....that's a wind up, right, a hilarious Mark Fletcher parody...surely......
Nope, straight from the cat's arse.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21148092
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Get the dour useless twat out now.
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Come out fighting? Remember 8-0?
Fuck off you arrogant ******.
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That has to be a wind up.
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'pick yourself up' Who had it in Lambert Bingo?
Only slightly less predictable than us conceding from a corner.
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He did not say get going again, please tell me he didn't utter that fucking drivel again?
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Said it before but the 'support' Risso and Fletcher give is shocking.. Both class A w××××××. You really are the lowest kind of fans.
But they have been right all along.
Risso and I are the Brian Clough and Peter Taylor of misery.
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'pick yourself up' Who had it in Lambert Bingo?
and for the next installment, The Lions Den
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PL set up the excellent first half as well. I haven't a clue what happens at half time or why he makes some substitutions (tonight or previously) but there is positive stuff there as well. Perhaps someone like Brailsford or another very good sports motivator/psych to work with him and the team would be the answer, going forward. (Buying a player or two as we have been saying wouldn't hurt either, but this malaise seems to go a bit deeper.)
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He didn't say "you go again" did he? Really? I just want him to say "I'm going".
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Tell me you're joking Hilts....that's a wind up, right, a hilarious Mark Fletcher parody...surely......
Nope, straight from the cat's arse.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21148092
Arrrgh, the c*** actually says it TWICE!
"You will get criticism but you have to pick yourselves up and keep going."
""ou are going to be hurting no doubt but you have to pick yourself up. You have to get going again. That is football for you."
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you have to pick yourselves up and keep going.
*screams*
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'you go again' and 'pick ourselves up' but we don't do we? we play diabolically and get poor results most weeks.
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Lamberts tactics when they scored were a fucking shambles. Bent, Benteke and Gabby were stood within 10 yards of themselves instead of stretching their defence. No fecking width and no midfield. Have always stuck up for Lambert, but not after tonight, he was clueless
That's how I feel too.
We needed to stretch the wings to try and pull the defense out of position while keeping our shape and moving around. Andi got our goal, so what does that tell you about our hit it and hope tactics to 3 static strikers?
it's not the players, well it is on the night, but in the grander scheme of things it's the tactical naivety on Lambert's part. Even if Delph isn't a defensive midfielder, drill it into him, marshal him, call him out when he does something wrong. Instill it into him that until they have a better player for the part that he is not allowed more than 25ft feet ahead of the centre halves, break up the play, look for the quick release, play the simple ball and not get dragged out of position.
Talk to Clark. Let him know not to let the opposition striker goal side. Man mark on set pieces and know when to drop off through fear of being dragged out of position, let him know when to space out to allow his full back to advance. etc.
If every player was given strict instructions on how to play his position individually and as a defensive and attacking unit we wouldn't be in the shit we're in right now. They aren't the best, but with the right organisation and tactical management we certainly wouldn't be serving up this shit week in week out.
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Said it before but the 'support' Risso and Fletcher give is shocking.. Both class A w××××××. You really are the lowest kind of fans.
But they have been right all along.
Risso and I are the Brian Clough and Peter Taylor of misery.
Morrissey and Johnny Marr to Hoppo's Captain Sensible.
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Lambert is taking is piss,he must be.
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'you go again' and 'pick ourselves up' but we don't do we? we play diabolically and get poor results most weeks.
That's just it Paul.
We never do pick ourselves up. It's inane bollocks.
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'you go again' and 'pick ourselves up' but we don't do we? we play diabolically and get poor results most weeks.
How can we go again when we are gone?
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, and the odd decent result to keep me going has gone.
very odd Ozz ;(
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Bunch of hypocrites here. Majority want Lambert out however on the Either or thread 85% wanted us to get knocked out! You got your wish. Are you the same people?
disagree, the tactical naivety tonight was too much, he made 2 terrible subs which destroyed any chance of us going through. If we'd got the same result but had been battering them getting crosses in and trying everything for the last half hour I'd back him but he reverted us to the most rank long ball crap imaginable. That was unforgivable for me, particularly given we'd shown in the first half that if we were patient and worked the ball around they couldn't cope with us.
agree completely.
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Tell me you're joking Hilts....that's a wind up, right, a hilarious Mark Fletcher parody...surely......
Nope, straight from the cat's arse.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21148092
Arrrgh, the c*** actually says it TWICE!
"You will get criticism but you have to pick yourselves up and keep going."
"You are going to be hurting no doubt but you have to pick yourself up. You have to get going again. That is football for you."
My mistake, three times:
"I am the manager of the team it is my responsibility to pick them up and get them going."
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We're disappearing into oblivion and I'm not sure sacking the manager will stop that. However after tonight he should definitely be sacked.
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
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Milwall next! LOLLLLL!!!!!!!
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This should be reset tommorrow, not straight after winning a game...
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
And the same who lost to Wigan and Southampton at home.
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
Yep. Two freak results in an ocean of shite.
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He should resign.
The players clearly don't know what they're supposed to be doing.
If you could see what he was trying to do, then maybe give him more time, but there is no plan.
As Eamonn said 'Rab c. Mumble' but yeah, if at the very least he'd make some kind of statement about his intentions with each player, tactics or long term plan in a kind of detail where we'd see the method in his madness then that might keep the wolf from the door for a while longer, but as it stands the silence is deafening.
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He's been found out I am afraid. I have said it before, if you have less personality than, and the communication skills of, a plank, you will never make a Premiership manager.
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The mumbling twat is on SSN now....
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@henrywinter: Lambert asked whether he would continue: "Yes, absolutely.' #avfc
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
And the same who lost to Wigan and Southampton at home.
And lost 8-0 at Chelsea, 4-0 at home to Tottenham, 4-1 at Southampton? Yes its the very same
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
Yes he did, but he also lost 5-0 to Man Citeh, 8-0 to Chelsea, 3-0 to Wigan, 4-0 to Spurs.
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This should be reset tommorrow, not straight after winning a game...
It is an interesting experiment to see how it swings as time passes and more considered responses come in. Chris S will come on and talk sense, and I expect Paulie will give a fairly balanced view. But we will see.
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I'm too annoyed to give a balanced opinion at the moment.
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
Brings to mind something about monkeys, typewriters, and the works of Shakespeare.
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"I wish I could say something different, but we have to pick ourselves up and go again"
So do we, so do we.
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
Yep. Two freak results in an ocean of shite.
A norwich team of 6 changes and a city team with 9 changes - we couldnt beat their 1st teams.
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The mumbling twat is on SSN now....
Listening to that,Randy aint giving him a penny.
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
Counts for nothing when you lose to a league 2 team in the semi final.
And it would be nice if we could actually win a game in the league sometime soon.
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I'm sorry like I've said I've supported him before, but tonight is just too much. If we'd won 2-1 and been incredibly unlucky I could handle it, but we weren't unlucky we were tactically clueless.
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'pick yourself up' Who had it in Lambert Bingo?
I had 'we'll have to go again' what does that get me?
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He's just said we've got to pick yourselves and go again 3times on SSN
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Same shit coming out of his mouth after the game....time to go, your just not good enough
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This should be reset tommorrow, not straight after winning a game...
It is an interesting experiment to see how it swings as time passes and more considered responses come in. Chris S will come on and talk sense, and I expect Paulie will give a fairly balanced view. But we will see.
.....and then there will be Rissbert.
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I feel sorry for him. Someone needs the balls to say 'that's enough Paul'. Sadly we have got the misfortune to have an incompetent manager and board at the same time.
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Just caught the end if PL's interview. He said "we pick ourselves up and we go again" three times. Just fuck off.
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The mumbling twat is on SSN now....
I can't tell what the fuck he's saying, he sounds like Brundlefly.
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'pick yourself up' Who had it in Lambert Bingo?
I had 'we'll have to go again' what does that get me?
A semi Final flag.
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This should be reset tommorrow, not straight after winning a game...
It is an interesting experiment to see how it swings as time passes and more considered responses come in. Chris S will come on and talk sense, and I expect Paulie will give a fairly balanced view. But we will see.
.....and then there will be Rissbert.
Yes, because I've been so wrong about Lambert haven't I.
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Nobody on the planet would resign and lose a multi-million pound payout.
He has to be sacked. Sorry, cos I liked him from the start and really wanted it to work. Blame me, if you like.
cdticklefan out!
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I don't hate Lambert at all, I wanted him to succeed. Sadly like I've said tonight is just too much.
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This should be reset tommorrow, not straight after winning a game...
It is an interesting experiment to see how it swings as time passes and more considered responses come in. Chris S will come on and talk sense, and I expect Paulie will give a fairly balanced view. But we will see.
I'd already made my mind up after he sat and watched the team drown during the first leg. An astounding way to manage. Then if that wasn't enough he then throws them the concrete life belt of his substitutions tonight.
I wanted him at the club, but given his stubburn refusal to arrest the decline, his arrogant attitude and pathetic platitudes when interviewed it's almost immpossible to mount any sort of defence.
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The last few times i've seen Lambert give post match interviews, I find it impossible not to feel that he knows that he can't do anything to arrest the slide.
The term "rabbit caught in the headlights" has rarely been more appropriate.
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I would love him to turn things round and everybody to say how wrong my opinion of him is.
I would love that because it would mean we were doing well. I just can't see it happening.
He's hopeless, but I can't hate him, the velvet owl.
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If you keep changing managers it ends in tears but...... I cannot believe we have performed so badly over 2 legs. Confidence is so fragile that 45 minutes of doing fine, as on Saturday and tonight is undone in a flash by preventable goals. This manager cannot seem to address this and whats more cannot use subs to improve us.
So for me he should go, but probably won't because Lerner won't have a replacement in mind.
All so embarrassing and depressing at the moment.
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This should be reset tommorrow, not straight after winning a game...
It is an interesting experiment to see how it swings as time passes and more considered responses come in. Chris S will come on and talk sense, and I expect Paulie will give a fairly balanced view. But we will see.
I'd already made my mind up after he sat and watched the team drown during the first leg. An astounding way to manage. Then if that wasn't enough he then throws them the concrete life belt of his substitutions tonight.
I wanted him at the club, but given his stubburn refusal to arrest the decline, his arrogant attitude and pathetic platitudes when interviewed it's almost immpossible to mount any sort of defence.
He doesn't, so why should you?
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I want to see The Millwall game first before I cast him down, I need to know if we'll be serving up this shit when we visit them next season.
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Poor tactics tonight in second half just blind panic.
Undone again by a corner from a 4th division side , I see Pardew was in the crowd all he needed to note down was win a corner.I don't think it is any coincidence that we are as she at corners as we are defending them.
We will go down now I am sure no way he can pick them up after this result
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As poor as some of lamberts decisions have been the fault lies with Randy, he has fucked us up good and it will be a long time before we recover.
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Poor tactics tonight in second half just blind panic.
Undone again by a corner from a 4th division side , I see Pardew was in the crowd all he needed to note down was win a corner.I don't think it is any coincidence that we are as she at corners as we are defending them.
We will go down now I am sure no way he can pick them up after this result
We just need to go again...
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There are nine days of the transfer window left. I think we are now in the position of having a choice between getting some new players in and sticking with Lambert, or going with the players we have and changing manager. I am afraid the latter is looking the better option.
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There are nine days of the transfer window left. I think we are now in the position of having a choice between getting some new players in and sticking with Lambert, or going with the players we have and changing manager. I am afraid the latter is looking the better option.
Agree , lambert has to go.
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Has there ever been a more embarrasing marketing slogan than 'Proud history, bright future.' ?
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From Lerner's point of view sacking Lambert and sticking with this squad is probably cheaper than keeping him and buying two or three players.
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Unless you appoint someone close to the club and knows the weaknesses i.e Gregory then you are left with a new manager who will want to give all the players a go at proving themselves and frankly we don't have time for that. The only way out is for Lerner to open his wallet big time otherwise we are down.
Hes spent £23m and made a poor team even shitter.
and had a top top goal scorer who he thought was not good enough for this team
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From Lerner's point of view sacking Lambert and sticking with this squad is probably cheaper than keeping him and buying two or three players.
But infinitely more expensive than being relegated.
I don't get it. If he can't actually afford to sack Lambert and/or buy some players, how on earth are we going to manage next season on greatly reduced parachute payments and 25,000 crowds?
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Dear Paul, when things weren't working out for you at Livingston you decided to go. Well maybe it's time to pick yourself up and go again. You ******.
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From Lerner's point of view sacking Lambert and sticking with this squad is probably cheaper than keeping him and buying two or three players.
But infinitely more expensive than being relegated.
I don't get it. If he can't actually afford to sack Lambert and/or buy some players, how on earth are we going to manage next season on greatly reduced parachute payments and 25,000 crowds?
It makes no sense at all , nothing this club does at moment makes any fucking sense.
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Dear Paul, when things weren't working out for you at Livingston you decided to go. Well maybe it's time to pick yourself up and go again. You c***.
@henrywinter: Lambert asked whether he would continue: "Yes, absolutely.' #avfc
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6 managers in 3 seasons is issue , sacking him not going to change anything. But we are going down, who want the job? As the club fooked to the core.
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No sign of Lambert giving any interviews on any site yet, hopefully this means he's just got in his car and driven off somewhere quiet to phone Lerner to resign.
"I am embarrassed. We will never have a better chance to reach the final."
not while you are manager
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
Yep. Two freak results in an ocean of shite.
A norwich team of 6 changes and a city team with 9 changes - we couldnt beat their 1st teams.
Yes those changes made them both much worse than Bradford city. And Liverpool had their 3rd team out that day unlucky day for them!
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6 managers in 3 seasons is issue , sacking him not going to change anything. But we are going down, who want the job? As the club fooked to the core.
That's rubbish Richard. Two of those were only extremely short term appointments due to Houllier starting late then getting ill. Appointing shit managers and not sacking them quickly enough when it becomes apparent they can't hack it is the problem. That and Lerner of course.
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@henrywinter: Lambert asked whether he would continue: "Yes, absolutely.' #avfc
he even talks like MON
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
Counts for nothing when you lose to a league 2 team in the semi final.
And it would be nice if we could actually win a game in the league sometime soon.
Yes agreed its shocking behind belief that we have been knocked out by a team from the fourth tier but problem at Villa is bigger than Lambert. There were very good reasons why we appointed him and those reasons are still valid.
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Risso most of us wanted him, I not happy mate wasted £100 quid coming to what that shite.
But I am struggling to see appointing yet another manager would solve .
Issue Faulkner and that hermit and how they run us into ground, sacking him won't fix it
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
Counts for nothing when you lose to a league 2 team in the semi final.
And it would be nice if we could actually win a game in the league sometime soon.
Yes agreed its shocking behind belief that we have been knocked out by a team from the fourth tier but problem at Villa is bigger than Lambert. There were very good reasons why we appointed him and those reasons are still valid.
What reasons?
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Tonight is close to the tipping point for me. I've voted to keep him before, I still inexplicably have this gut feeling that he has something to offer, that he could be a really good manager, and that somehow he will keep us up, even though I can't see how we could bribe our way to a PL win at the moment. But then you look at that complete tactical ineptitude tonight, and in the first leg as well, you look at the 23m pounds worth of signings who mostly look sub-standard, and you look at the bizarre refusal to play with any proper width, and you look at the total failure to address our weaknesses at set pieces, both attacking and especially defending . And this business of going 4-1-5 or 4-0-6 when chasing a game, it's absolute schoolyard stuff that has no place at the top level of English football. And it's hard to justify supporting him any longer.
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
Counts for nothing when you lose to a league 2 team in the semi final.
And it would be nice if we could actually win a game in the league sometime soon.
Yes agreed its shocking behind belief that we have been knocked out by a team from the fourth tier but problem at Villa is bigger than Lambert. There were very good reasons why we appointed him and those reasons are still valid.
What reasons?
Back to back promotions and 12th in the Prem first go.. that's pretty impressive.
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Until the problems at the top are sorted out the manager is irrelevant. We've been asset stripped of our best players and the austerity agenda is leading us into the abyss. No idea what they think we can achieve paying low wages and thinking the academy can produce enough good players to sustain us.
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A 10 year old with some FIFA experience would have made a better fist of that final half hour... OUT!
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If someone could tell me what he's trying to do with our team, then I might vote to keep him. I, and the players it seems, have no fucking clue.
Under MON, you knew you'd be tight and get the ball forward quick to play on the counter. Under GH, he tried to make us pass the ball and under TSM it was all about defending and playing not to lose.
Under PL, what are we trying to do? I don't get it.
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Randy isn't ambitious enough to sack him. He clearly couldn't give a fuck . He has turned us into a complete and utter laughing stock.
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his appointment was such an opportunity to galvanise villa after the dross of houllier and mcleish. its remarkable that we've actually regressed especially when he's brought in some good players in benteke lowton and vlaar. i really thought wed be mid table but his tactics have been frightening to say the least
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Tonight is close to the tipping point for me. I've voted to keep him before, I still inexplicably have this gut feeling that he has something to offer, that he could be a really good manager, and that somehow he will keep us up, even though I can't see how we could bribe our way to a PL win at the moment. But then you look at that complete tactical ineptitude tonight, and in the first leg as well, you look at the 23m pounds worth of signings who mostly look sub-standard, and you look at the bizarre refusal to play with any proper width, and you look at the total failure to address our weaknesses at set pieces, both attacking and especially defending . And this business of going 4-1-5 or 4-0-6 when chasing a game, it's absolute schoolyard stuff that has no place at the top level of English football. And it's hard to justify supporting him any longer.
Agree with this 100%
God knows who we could get in but can't see how Lambert will improve us now.
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
Counts for nothing when you lose to a league 2 team in the semi final.
And it would be nice if we could actually win a game in the league sometime soon.
Yes agreed its shocking behind belief that we have been knocked out by a team from the fourth tier but problem at Villa is bigger than Lambert. There were very good reasons why we appointed him and those reasons are still valid.
What reasons?
Back to back promotions and 12th in the Prem first go.. that's pretty impressive.
Adkins almost did that and got sacked.
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These "its irrelevant who the manager is" posts beggar belief. No matter what he has to work with, the fact he can't organise the players he has into any sort of order is a disgrace. There are plenty of managers with less resources doing MUCH better.
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Tonight is close to the tipping point for me. I've voted to keep him before, I still inexplicably have this gut feeling that he has something to offer, that he could be a really good manager, and that somehow he will keep us up, even though I can't see how we could bribe our way to a PL win at the moment. But then you look at that complete tactical ineptitude tonight, and in the first leg as well, you look at the 23m pounds worth of signings who mostly look sub-standard, and you look at the bizarre refusal to play with any proper width, and you look at the total failure to address our weaknesses at set pieces, both attacking and especially defending . And this business of going 4-1-5 or 4-0-6 when chasing a game, it's absolute schoolyard stuff that has no place at the top level of English football. And it's hard to justify supporting him any longer.
Pretty much where I'm at.
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I genuinely dont know how to fix our problems. We have spent money (sorry but we have), changed manager, changed players. Its actually got worse.
Buggered if I know. I hope the club have a clue.
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Is this the same inept clueless man who ripped apart mancity and Norwich away?
Counts for nothing when you lose to a league 2 team in the semi final.
And it would be nice if we could actually win a game in the league sometime soon.
Yes agreed its shocking behind belief that we have been knocked out by a team from the fourth tier but problem at Villa is bigger than Lambert. There were very good reasons why we appointed him and those reasons are still valid.
What reasons?
Back to back promotions and 12th in the Prem first go.. that's pretty impressive.
I take your point,but how are the reasons still valid.He looks,act's and sounds like a sick puppy waiting for the vet to give a shot.
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Tonight is close to the tipping point for me. I've voted to keep him before, I still inexplicably have this gut feeling that he has something to offer, that he could be a really good manager, and that somehow he will keep us up, even though I can't see how we could bribe our way to a PL win at the moment. But then you look at that complete tactical ineptitude tonight, and in the first leg as well, you look at the 23m pounds worth of signings who mostly look sub-standard, and you look at the bizarre refusal to play with any proper width, and you look at the total failure to address our weaknesses at set pieces, both attacking and especially defending . And this business of going 4-1-5 or 4-0-6 when chasing a game, it's absolute schoolyard stuff that has no place at the top level of English football. And it's hard to justify supporting him any longer.
Agree with this 100%
God knows who we could get in but can't see how Lambert will improve us now.
Pep isn't signing on at Bayern until the summer... Maybe we could get him over for a few months to tide us over until Mourinho is free in the summer?
He can have a free Villa flag for his troubles.
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My worry is that what's happened tonight could kill off what confidence the players had left. It could all be downhill from here. Whether Lambert is the man to halt the slide i don't know. There's a good manager there, he's proved it at other clubs but tactically against a Division 2 side, he's been all over place in both games and that's a worry.
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I apologise to Risso and Fletcher I've always hated people with different opinions to me.
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If someone could tell me what he's trying to do with our team, then I might vote to keep him. I, and the players it seems, have no fucking clue.
Under MON, you knew you'd be tight and get the ball forward quick to play on the counter. Under GH, he tried to make us pass the ball and under TSM it was all about defending and playing not to lose.
Under PL, what are we trying to do? I don't get it.
We try to out pass the opposition. Doesn't work against better players which is what most the premiership have.
Gets you a home win against Bradford though, so if we ever get to their league we might be OK with it
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My initial thoughts were to get rid, but after reflection I think the problems lie deeper than the manager. The whole club is in a mess and sadly the buck stops with Lerner and his Ginger chum. I think those two have to face facts and admit they don't have a clue what they're doing. Sacking Lambert isnt the answer.
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I take your point,but how are the reasons still valid.He looks,act's and sounds like a sick puppy waiting for the vet to give a shot.
Just because he has a manner of speech that some of don't like it doesn't invalidate his success track . How do you know he didn't sound like you say when he was at Norwich?
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Ok one for those remaining PL supporters - how bad does it have to get before he should be sacked? Serious question. I'm interested.
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I take your point,but how are the reasons still valid.He looks,act's and sounds like a sick puppy waiting for the vet to give a shot.
Just because he has a manner of speech that some of don't like it doesn't invalidate his success track . How do you know he didn't sound like you say when he was at Norwich?
He didn't sound like I had just shagged his daughter,and he didn't shuffle round the technical area like he does now.
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I can't believe I'm going to write this but how we could do with an experienced manager like Redknob.
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I apologise to Risso and Fletcher I've always hated people with different opinions to me.
With respect, if you think that coming on here to swear at me, then follow it up with an insincere apology is OK, you can shove it. You're too stupid too worry about.
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If Lambert were to be sacked would you honestly trust Lerner to appoint the next manager?
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If Lambert were to be sacked would you honestly trust Lerner to appoint the next manager?
No.
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I'd trust him to appoint the next manager, just not the right one.
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If Lambert were to be sacked would you honestly trust Lerner to appoint the next manager?
No, but could anybody do a worse job than PL is doing currently.
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I take your point,but how are the reasons still valid.He looks,act's and sounds like a sick puppy waiting for the vet to give a shot.
Just because he has a manner of speech that some of don't like it doesn't invalidate his success track . How do you know he didn't sound like you say when he was at Norwich?
I couldn't give a stuff what he achieved with Norwich, the fact is he finds new ways to humiliate our great club on a weekly basis. Owen Coyle had an excellent record with Burnley, and even beat Man U, before getting relegated with Bolton, and Lambert is seemingly following in his footsteps.
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You pay peanuts that is what you get. He is making mistakes but the players we have are shit. You cannot scrimp in the PL you will get punished.
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You pay peanuts that is what you get. He is making mistakes but the players we have are shit. You cannot scrimp in the PL you will get punished.
He had £25m to spend. whatever the wage constraints, that's more than most teams had in the summer. He took McLeish's shite team, and with a combination of bad buys and terrible coaching, has made it infinitely worse.
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Is it just me or are his interviews getting harder and harder to understand what he is saying as the days go by?
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You pay peanuts that is what you get. He is making mistakes but the players we have are shit. You cannot scrimp in the PL you will get punished.
Funny when McLeish was in charge the argument was he wasn't getting the best out of the players. He actually over achieved then?
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Ok one for those remaining PL supporters - how bad does it have to get before he should be sacked? Serious question. I'm interested.
Give him time. He is learning as are the players. It's not his fault that our players only converted 3 of the two dozen chances his tactics created and the fact that these overpaid twats can't mark a player properly in the penalty area.
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Ok one for those remaining PL supporters - how bad does it have to get before he should be sacked? Serious question. I'm interested.
Good question Ross and I would say that there is probably enough reason now to sack him. The question remains though, who comes in next and are they realistically going to do any better with the current squad that just isn't good enough? Which managers are out there at the minute?
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You pay peanuts that is what you get. He is making mistakes but the players we have are shit. You cannot scrimp in the PL you will get punished.
Funny when McLeish was in charge the argument was he wasn't getting the best out of the players. He actually over achieved then?
I don't want to answer this one,I might not like the answer I give.
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You pay peanuts that is what you get. He is making mistakes but the players we have are shit. You cannot scrimp in the PL you will get punished.
Funny when McLeish was in charge the argument was he wasn't getting the best out of the players. He actually over achieved then?
Jesus wept
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Just like Houllier (who i thought would be a decent manager for us if not for bad health) Lambert has tried to change to many things too quickly. The lack of width has worried me for a while especially with a beast like Benteke leading the line, and this idea of wingbacks is all well and good if you have a well organised defence but time after time our wingbacks leave us exposed. If Sissoko goes to the Geordies when our need is so dire i worry that all my confidence that money is there to be spent will disappear.
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I'm in the undecided camp. Probably sat on my own around the fire toasting marshmallows.
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Is it just me or are his interviews getting harder and harder to understand what he is saying as the days go by?
If you play them backwards, he's actually saying "Randy give me transfer funds" over and over.
Maybe.
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He is responsible for two of the most embarrassing results, three if you count the two-legged semi final, in our history (the other being Chelsea 8-0). We have the worst defence in the league and the lowest amount of goals scored. We have also been in the bottom three more times this season than we have in the past fifteen years. He seems totally unable to motivate the players and provide them with the leadership that they need. We look dead certs for relegation. He has to go. Now.
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It seems that the only remaining defence of Lambert is that nobody would trust Lerner to appoint the new manager. Does anybody think he's actually doing a good job?
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Ok one for those remaining PL supporters - how bad does it have to get before he should be sacked? Serious question. I'm interested.
Give him time. He is learning as are the players. It's not his fault that our players only converted 3 of the two dozen chances his tactics created and the fact that these overpaid twats can't mark a player properly in the penalty area.
The players are getting worse.Time is something we don't have.
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Ok one for those remaining PL supporters - how bad does it have to get before he should be sacked? Serious question. I'm interested.
Give him time. He is learning as are the players. It's not his fault that our players only converted 3 of the two dozen chances his tactics created and the fact that these overpaid twats can't mark a player properly in the penalty area.
I don't know aftab, I thought his tactics were very poor tonight. It was pretty clear that we were causing them problems out wide, yet he elected to play without any wide players after they scored and it was so congested in the middle. I do agree that the players are also letting him down, but when you persist with players who constantly make the same mistakes (how many goals has Benteke cost us from corners now?) then you have to take some of the blame as well.
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And Lambert clearly isn't learning.
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Transfer funds will make no difference .I'm not saying he's a bad manager but he is an awful fit for us. It's like every game we play we aim to achieve the worst scenario possible. I'm fucking sick of it,something's got to change
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If only Lambert had managed Small Heath. What an easy decision it would have been for most of you. My view is that Lerner must go, however that may happen.
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So, if we conclude that he has done enough (or not done enough) to get sacked, the question is....... who do you want to replace him?
Is there a manager out there, waiting to be approached? I don't think there is any alternative solution available. So sacking him will get us what?
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Jose Mourinho. NURSE!
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I would take Atkins but seriously who ever comes in if we change will be visiting crystal palace and Blackpool nest season as we are fucked.
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I have tried to be positive about the way he has tried to rebuild the side and going forward with the options we have, there is plenty of encouragement. However, the defending has been woeful since day one and his inability to address it will send us down.
I think if we lose to Newcastle, he will be gone.
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Jose Mourinho. NURSE!
Anybody, who could actually do a worse job than he is currently doing ?
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Jose Mourinho. NURSE!
Anybody, who could actually do a worse job than he is currently doing ?
Not even Terry O'Connor.
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If only Lambert had managed Small Heath. What an easy decision it would have been for most of you. My view is that Lerner must go, however that may happen.
Spot on.
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If only Lambert had managed Small Heath. What an easy decision it would have been for most of you. My view is that Lerner must go, however that may happen.
Spot on.
And Faulkner.
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Lambert was the Manager that I wanted I have to say, thought that he would be ideal for us at this moment in time. I`ve not wanted him out, but changed my mind tonight. He cannot motivate this team and there is no game plan at all apart from crab football. There is the Lerner factor admittedly, but purely manager basis, he should be sacked in the morning.
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Has he been sacked yet?
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Jose Mourinho. NURSE!
Anybody, who could actually do a worse job than he is currently doing ?
Not even Terry O'Connor.
Glenn Roeder
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I would take Atkins but seriously who ever comes in if we change will be visiting crystal palace and Blackpool nest season as we are fucked.
Said the same afte Wigan. Sat in the lower North stand with my head in my hands.
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Any PL club cant afford to have a manager that is still learning his trade.
Any PL club cant afford to have a team full of young players learning their trade.
...we are witnessing an awful experiment which proves why a PL club cant have either of these.
Lambert is to blame for the tactics and players he's bought, but if all you can pay is Championship wages then all you can get is Championship players. Both the manager and the players dont have time to learn their trade in the PL and that is why we are watching a struggling Championship team playing for a famous PL club in the PL.
What Lerner has done to this club is nothing short of a disgrace.
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So, if we conclude that he has done enough (or not done enough) to get sacked, the question is....... who do you want to replace him?
Is there a manager out there, waiting to be approached? I don't think there is any alternative solution available. So sacking him will get us what?
Don't think it will matter either way though, I am convinced we are down this season. I would rather either let Lambert see out this shit or get some one in on a short contract.
Dare I suggest John Gregory on a 6 month contract? Yes I dare. Whatever you think of the style of football he employed, you can't doubt his ability to get a defence organised or his commitment to Aston Villa.
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I wonder what Alan Curbishley is up to.
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Interviewer - " do you need new players in January?"
Lambert "I've spoke to the chairman....<rhubarb rhubarb>..... the chairman knows....<blah blah>....he's been great.... <stumble>....but it's probably the wrong time to ask me that"
Sounds like a man who knows he wont be in the job much longer.....
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I wanted him. I was delighted when we got him. And am now seriously questioning where he goes from here.
However, my big concern is that we are heading for a long exile in the Football League and will spend years looking back whistfully on the day we were drawn in a semi-final against a fourth tier club and asking, how did it go so wrong? The answer to that, I don't think, is necessarilly down to the manager.
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I wonder what Alan Curbishley is up to.
Yes please
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I wanted him. I was delighted when we got him. And am now seriously questioning where he goes from here.
However, my big concern is that we are heading for a long exile in the Football League and will spend years looking back whistfully on the day we were drawn in a semi-final against a fourth tier club and asking, how did it go so wrong? The answer to that, I don't think, is necessarilly down to the manager.
HE put together a defence that can't defend.
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Interviewer - " do you need new players in January?"
Lambert "I've spoke to the chairman....<rhubarb rhubarb>..... the chairman knows....<blah blah>....he's been great.... <stumble>....but it's probably the wrong time to ask me that"
Sounds like a man who knows he wont be in the job much longer.....
That's what I thought....
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It seems that the only remaining defence of Lambert is that nobody would trust Lerner to appoint the new manager. Does anybody think he's actually doing a good job?
While not a Chairman thread, thats a fair point.His mismanagement of Aston Villa, and his own finances in thzt venture are truely astonishing.
But at least I have some free flags
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John Gregory? Give me strength. We may as well ask my brother to take charge because he has commitment to the Villa too.
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John Gregory? Give me strength. We may as well ask my brother to take charge because he has commitment to the Villa too.
Fair enough :) Personally I don't think there is anything that will save us. No magical change of manager will correct this situation as it has been created over seasons and seasons of mismanagement by Lerner. I will be amazed if we stay up.
Lambert is our Graham Turner... who do we want to be our Billy McNeill?
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John Gregory? Give me strength. We may as well ask my brother to take charge because he has commitment to the Villa too.
At least we would have a bit of fight from Gregory. Thats the one thing that has taken me back about Lambert. Being so close to MON, I expect him to have a bit more about him. He is a quite quiet really.
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John Gregory? Give me strength. We may as well ask my brother to take charge because he has commitment to the Villa too.
A change of manager without access to a transfer window rarely makes a difference...but it's the only option at this point.
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Lambert in charge of the first half, Gregory takes over as soon the HT whistle goes.
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We have I would say 3 days to turn round the manager if we are to sack him, giving the new man a week. And also, you would have to appoint inside the UK, and someone who has watched Villa a bit this season. At that point, they would see we need a couple of big strong midfielder and a couple of defenders.
I would still go for Curbishley on a 6 month, keep us up you get the job contract. He had Bent scoring at Charlton, can organise a side and would have a calm head on him.
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Unless the clown has already got someone tapped up, it is too late. We are down without a prayer.
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With the players we had on the books and £20m to spend keeping us up should have been a straightforward task. What has been served up over the past six months are some of the most embarrassing and worst performances ever by a Villa team, that is some achievement. And you think this is over dramatic look at this little run
0-8 Chelsea - club record defeat
0-4 Spurs
0-3 Wigan - record goals conceded in three games
2-2 Swansea
2-1 Ipswich
1-3 Bradford - 4th tier team never beaten a top league team in a semi final
0-1 Southampton - one goal in six home league games
2-1 Bradford - lose on aggregate in a semi final
Untenable.
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Leighton, is that banner still in storage?
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PS Nigel Adkins
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Can't argue with that.
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After tonight's team selection. I am beginning to wonder. He picked Ireland to start. From me that was a big mistake. The man has no passion. This game needed passion. His subs were rubbish. We had no idea. AGAINST A TEAM FROM THE FORTH DIVISION.
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With the players we had on the books and £20m to spend keeping us up should have been a straightforward task. What has been served up over the past six months are some of the most embarrassing and worst performances ever by a Villa team, that is some achievement. And you think this is over dramatic look at this little run
0-8 Chelsea - club record defeat
0-4 Spurs
0-3 Wigan - record goals conceded in three games
2-2 Swansea
2-1 Ipswich
1-3 Bradford - 4th tier team never beaten a top league team in a semi final
0-1 Southampton - one goal in six home league games
2-1 Bradford - lose on aggregate in a semi final
Untenable.
Indeed it is. Action required from our headless Board
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Unless the clown has already got someone tapped up, it is too late. We are down without a prayer.
Still got new manager syndrome as a last desperate fall back. I really don't think its a good idea sacking a manager who may have players lined up before the end of January but really its looking more and more unlikely and unless he gets new faces in we'd be better off letting a new guy try and turn it around.
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With the players we had on the books and £20m to spend keeping us up should have been a straightforward task. What has been served up over the past six months are some of the most embarrassing and worst performances ever by a Villa team, that is some achievement. And you think this is over dramatic look at this little run
0-8 Chelsea - club record defeat
0-4 Spurs
0-3 Wigan - record goals conceded in three games
2-2 Swansea
2-1 Ipswich
1-3 Bradford - 4th tier team never beaten a top league team in a semi final
0-1 Southampton - one goal in six home league games
2-1 Bradford - lose on aggregate in a semi final
Untenable.
You missed out the 2-2 draw with them lot, their bad run that they was on and Odemwingie not scored in 10 games
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I would still go for Curbishley on a 6 month, keep us up you get the job contract. He had Bent scoring at Charlton, can organise a side and would have a calm head on him.
I don't have a problem with Curbishley, its always confused me as to why he was lumped in with the McCarthys and Coyles of this world as he actually has a pretty decent record in the Prem considering who he has managed. If (When) we do go down I think he would be an ideal choice for manager.
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I still say keep Lambert ( am still getting used to singing Paul Lambert's claret and blue army) but after that tactical performance I would not be distressed if he walked.
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I would still go for Curbishley on a 6 month, keep us up you get the job contract. He had Bent scoring at Charlton, can organise a side and would have a calm head on him.
I don't have a problem with Curbishley, its always confused me as to why he was lumped in with the McCarthys and Coyles of this world as he actually has a pretty decent record in the Prem considering who he has managed. If (When) we do go down I think he would be an ideal choice for manager.
I'd take Curbishley over this clown.
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Keep Lambert but bring back McLeish as Director of Football.
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I wanted him. I was delighted when we got him. And am now seriously questioning where he goes from here.
However, my big concern is that we are heading for a long exile in the Football League and will spend years looking back whistfully on the day we were drawn in a semi-final against a fourth tier club and asking, how did it go so wrong? The answer to that, I don't think, is necessarilly down to the manager.
HE put together a defence that can't defend.
I also wanted Lambert, and it therefore hurts me to say that TSM is now looking more equipped for the job in hand. If you accept that we are only ever going to be struggling at the bottom of the table then we would probably benefit from a back-to-basics approach. Having said that, I don't think TSM could have guided us to an away victory at the Etihad - which makes the pain all the more exquisite.
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I would still go for Curbishley on a 6 month, keep us up you get the job contract. He had Bent scoring at Charlton, can organise a side and would have a calm head on him.
Ditto
I don't have a problem with Curbishley, its always confused me as to why he was lumped in with the McCarthys and Coyles of this world as he actually has a pretty decent record in the Prem considering who he has managed. If (When) we do go down I think he would be an ideal choice for manager.
I'd take Curbishley over this clown.
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You know, he's lost the plot. He just threw on vaguely attacking players and hoped it would work. That's not tactics - that's Alan Shearer. In fact, it's a 10 year old losing to his dad on FIFA - and that sets the tone for the whole side. It's inexperienced players being led by an inexperienced manager. A Norwich fan told me that, for all his good times there, he never sorted out the defence, and it looks like Vlaar is not just having to sort out his teammates but the manager as well.
Lambert said 'we don't have the players to play long-balls'. Well, neither do Swansea or Wigan, but they don't because their managers have bred it into their teams not to. Lambert seems unable to control anything that goes on on the pitch. I think he's going to be a good manager one day, no question, but his time with us is a horrible failure. However, it's not his fault entirely, or even mostly: Lerner is absolutely the source of all - yes, all - of our problems, and he must cough up or sell up. His choice.
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It's not a case of either or though. TSM was a terrible appointment, Lambert is turning out to be even worse.
The reasons run deeper than the manager, but Lambert's management of the team has to be judged against performances and results versus resources, as most people are at work, They just aren't acceptable.
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I was firmly in the "delighted to get Lambert" camp, so it's impossible for me to knock Lerner for getting him. I also like what Lambert wants to do, but in hindsight it seems he's tried to do it too fast. Echoes of Houllier maybe?
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The only thing in his favour is that if you were to list our 5 best players, they would be Guzan (would he have cleared out the corner?), Lowton, Benteke, Westwood and erm.... struggling....
See the thing is, the money he had last summer had to stretch a long way, which it did, and his signings are all our better players. The issue is, he needs another 15 million or so to build the core of the side. In a week.
Lerner has got to back him, big time.
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If Lambert stays we go down.
If he goes we might stay up. Like how QPR have got a new lease of life since appointing that arsehole.
I'd take a chance on "might". Let's get rid.
By the way mods: as I have lost faith in Mr Tickle, can I go back to cdvillafan please?
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If Lambert stays we go down.
If he goes we might stay up. Like how QPR have got a new lease of life since appointing that arsehole.
I'd take a chance on "might". Let's get rid.
By the way mods: as I have lost faith in Mr Tickle, can I go back to cdvillafan please?
£100 in non sequential £5 notes at the Newcastle game and i'll think about it.
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If Lambert stays we go down.
If he goes we might stay up. Like how QPR have got a new lease of life since appointing that arsehole.
I'd take a chance on "might". Let's get rid.
By the way mods: as I have lost faith in Mr Tickle, can I go back to cdvillafan please?
£100 in non sequential £5 notes at the Newcastle game and i'll think about it.
Newcastle? You mean we've got another home game this month? Oh for fuck's sake. That's it. Goodbye cruel world.
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If Lambert stays we go down.
If he goes we might stay up. Like how QPR have got a new lease of life since appointing that arsehole.
I'd take a chance on "might". Let's get rid.
By the way mods: as I have lost faith in Mr Tickle, can I go back to cdvillafan please?
£100 in non sequential £5 notes at the Newcastle game and i'll think about it.
Newcastle? You mean we've got another home game this month? Oh for fuck's sake. That's it. Goodbye cruel world.
We've got to survive our bed-wetting trip to Millwall first.
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If Lambert stays we go down.
If he goes we might stay up. Like how QPR have got a new lease of life since appointing that arsehole.
I'd take a chance on "might". Let's get rid.
By the way mods: as I have lost faith in Mr Tickle, can I go back to cdvillafan please?
£100 in non sequential £5 notes at the Newcastle game and i'll think about it.
Newcastle? You mean we've got another home game this month? Oh for fuck's sake. That's it. Goodbye cruel world.
We could just pray for lots more snow?
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I honestly dont know if Lambert going or Lerner going or both are the answer. All i do know is that something drastic needs to happen.
I can honestly say I've had my head in the sand for too long.
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I'm still waiting for him to do the decent thing and resign. I don't know how he has the nerve to turn up for work tomorrow.
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The only thing in his favour is that if you were to list our 5 best players, they would be Guzan (would he have cleared out the corner?), Lowton, Benteke, Westwood and erm.... struggling....
They're not though. Our best five players are Bent, Gabby, NZogbia, Ireland, and Benteke. It's just Lambert doesn't really know how to get the best out of most of them.
I've finally lost patience with Lambert. Tonight's tactics were a joke. We absolutely dominated the first half and his reaction to going a goal down was to royally screw up the formation and tactics to bring Bent on. By the end of the game we had four strikers in a 334 formation with the three at the back covering 3 of the 4 places you'd have in a back 4. It was shambolic. When Bent came on you could see all the players on the pitch looking at one another to try to work out where they were meant to be playing.
Sadly I think it's too late to save us now. Changing the manager now wouldn't give the new gaffer enough time to bring new players in and the ones we have just aren't good enough.
I'm absolutely gutted at how quickly we've fallen from Champions League contenders to whipping boys for allcomers.
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You know, he's lost the plot. He just threw on vaguely attacking players and hoped it would work. That's not tactics - that's Alan Shearer. In fact, it's a 10 year old losing to his dad on FIFA - and that sets the tone for the whole side. It's inexperienced players being led by an inexperienced manager. A Norwich fan told me that, for all his good times there, he never sorted out the defence, and it looks like Vlaar is not just having to sort out his teammates but the manager as well.
Lambert said 'we don't have the players to play long-balls'. Well, neither do Swansea or Wigan, but they don't because their managers have bred it into their teams not to. Lambert seems unable to control anything that goes on on the pitch. I think he's going to be a good manager one day, no question, but his time with us is a horrible failure. However, it's not his fault entirely, or even mostly: Lerner is absolutely the source of all - yes, all - of our problems, and he must cough up or sell up. His choice.
Have to agree.
I have supported Lambert staunchly and still believe he needs to be backed this window, but like yoi said, with half an hour to go, still, he had to make the right decision re substitutions, and that was not what he did - just throwing more strikers on without thinking about how we'd get them the ball.
We made it easy tonight for Bradford, but really, I found myself sat with the dawning realisation that, actually, not only are too many of the players out of their depth, maybe the manager is too.
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What has Ireland ever done to justify being thought of as one of our best players? His whole reputation is based on two thirds of a good season at City years ago.
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One other thing, an I don't like to single one young player out, but defensively, Bennett is one of the worst players we have had in a long time.
He might improve and show he can do it, but every time I see him, he gets worse and worse. He's getting destroyed.
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What has Ireland ever done to justify being thought of as one of our best players? His whole reputation is based on two thirds of a good season at City years ago.
I still want to know which eejit sanctioned the purchase of Ireland when we had no manager. That has always struck me as plain stupid. I don't think any manager has ever wanted him here.
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I was firmly in the "delighted to get Lambert" camp, so it's impossible for me to knock Lerner for getting him. I also like what Lambert wants to do, but in hindsight it seems he's tried to do it too fast.
Exactly how I feel.
I don't blame Lerner for appointing him, it seemed a good idea at the time. But I would blame Lerner for not recognising and correcting something which is plainly not working.
I (and I'm sure many of you) have never seen a more disorganised team in top-flight football (maybe Newcastle under Shearer excepted). Something needs to be done - and the answer is not coughing up 3.5mill for Diame from West Ham.
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well we lost it in the first leg. i'd written this game off already as i knew they'd get one, but its the cup games that always do for a manager as tonight proves
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I honestly can't believe I am saying this (especially as an ex semi pro full back and their fiercist critics) but Warnock and Hutton would improve our full back offering.
It won't necessarily keep us up as with our narrow no winger formation the fullbacks play a critical role unfortunately they are not good enough. In the battle ahead it may give us some PL experience as both Bennett and alarmingly Lowton's confidence is shot.
Bradford practically let Lowton to have the ball all night and not bother wasting resource to close him down knowing he posed little threat and was weak. Ditto Bennett. Manure did same with Cuellar in CC Final
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My thinking is will removing Lambert solve the problem, what is the next boss going to do differently?
Lerner created this mess, he allowed MON to go crazy with the family fund then when others would push on he withdrew. Where we find ourselves now is not Lamberts fault or McLeishs, Houlliers or O'Neills it firmly rests at the feet of Randy Lerner he took on something he didnt realise the size of.
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Lambert has made lots of mistakes but there isn't a manager around who could fashion a decent side from this squad.
Too many players not good enough.
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A new guy might be able to coach the team at set pieces. This alone is justification when the alternative is the utter shambles under Lambert.
Also I find it impossible to think any of those players have faith in him anymore. He's a beaten man, just look at him. He needs to go tonight.
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One other thing, an I don't like to single one young player out, but defensively, Bennett is one of the worst players we have had in a long time.
He might improve and show he can do it, but every time I see him, he gets worse and worse. He's getting destroyed.
Which makes it even more puzzling why he doesn't have any help and is left isolated 1v1 with a winger so many times. It must be so easy to plan tactics against us at the moment - 4-4-2, get the ball wide early as possible, have a go at Lowton and Bennett and they're likely to give you either a corner or a free kick in the final third. Bit of movement in the box, decent delivery and you're more than likely to get a goal. That is pretty much all Bradford did over the two legs.
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Howla, you're right. A back four of Hutton - Vlaar - Dunne (Or Collins if we hadn't sold him) - Warnock wouldn't have leaked three in the first leg at Bradford, I'm fairly sure.
Which, along with pissing off our record signing is something Lambert has gotten wrong through his stubborn pig-headedness.
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What has Ireland ever done to justify being thought of as one of our best players? His whole reputation is based on two thirds of a good season at City years ago.
I still want to know which eejit sanctioned the purchase of Ireland when we had no manager. That has always struck me as plain stupid. I don't think any manager has ever wanted him here.
The Culprit looks like Pilsbury doughboy wearing a ginger wig.
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Lambert has made lots of mistakes but there isn't a manager around who could fashion a decent side from this squad.
Too many players not good enough.
you don't need to be a good side to not leak 4 goals to a div4 team. Yep, we're not very good, but that shit in defence? nah. He can't organise them, pure and simple or they're not listening. Either way, get rid. The clueless dick in america could turn it around before Feb but its unlikely he cares.
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A new guy might be able to coach the team at set pieces. This alone is justification when the alternative is the utter shambles under Lambert.
Also I find it impossible to think any of those players have faith in him anymore. He's a beaten man, just look at him. He needs to go tonight.
McLeish was supposed to be the man to do that, but we were just as bad last season. I do have some sympathy, as you can work on set pieces all you like, but if someone switches off in a game then there isn't anything you can do as a manager. If the same player keeps doing it though (as Benteke has done) then the manager is to blame if he persists on using him back there.
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What has Ireland ever done to justify being thought of as one of our best players? His whole reputation is based on two thirds of a good season at City years ago.
I still want to know which eejit sanctioned the purchase of Ireland when we had no manager. That has always struck me as plain stupid. I don't think any manager has ever wanted him here.
The Culprit looks like Pilsbury doughboy wearing a ginger wig.
the most perfect description!
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We've painted ourselves into a corner and there's no way out. Keeping him is wrong, sacking him is wrong. I hope he can turn it round cos I think he has the right idea. And there's no guarantee any other replacement you care to mention would be any better. Sacking a manager every year until one sticks is one easy way to spiral down out of control. On the other hand, he's looking inflexible and there's hubris in his personality that seems to be dragging us down. Everyone sees the problem with the team and either he doesn't or he does and can't fix it.
I have no bloody idea how this can be fixed.
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Good articles in the Guardian and the Independent neither gloated at our loss they put very accurately whats wrong at the club.
A lack of hunger was mentioned and it got me thinking, Nzogbia was brilliant in his last season at Wigan and i bet if he went back there he would be brilliant again, Ireland although out of favour at Man City was player of the season the year before, what happens to turn good players to shit when they enter Villa Park. Whatever Lambert was trying to achieve even he must admit it has failed, we need leaders on the pitch and in the rooms, we need angry bastards who frighten the life out of their teammates not just the opposition, there is no anger there just resignation. I thought Lambert was a hard bastard just what we needed but there seems to be no anger or desire on the pitch. Lambert did refuse to answer questions on transfers just said him and Randy knows what's going on, whatever that means.
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Randy for his faults must be looking at the current players and see another x million of his money turning to shit. He gave MON the earth, and supported everyone since. You can criticise him for a lot of things but he most be shitting himself at the thought of opening his chequebook again.
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Is this one of those polls you're going to keep running until you get the desired result.
Still IN for me!
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Can we keep Lambert but sack his coaching staff? They certainly don't appear to be doing much.
I'm flipflopping between keeping him as there are no obvious candidates to replace him (and would we trust the owner with such a decision) or getting rid as he's lost all credibility and there's now growing discontent among the supporters towards him. The next 2 games are critical - lose both of those and it's all over. It wouldn't surprise me if he's gone tomorrow though - he bloody well should be embarrassed...
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Still IN for me as well but after last night i'm not actually sure why, just a gut feeling I suppose.
I'm just totally depressed about the Villa right now.
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One Lamb chop please
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Anyone still think the players believe in him? Not heard much talk of "losing the dressing room" yet.
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Just get rid. I really dont care who takes over. Nobody could be worse.
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When Mr Faulkner walks into the office this morning will he:
1. Ask his PA to get Mr Lambert on the phone?
2. Ring Randy to ask for funds?
3. Call all known agents of players we are intrested in?
4. Call all known agents of Coaches we have lined up if Lambert were to resign?
5. Make his way over to BMH and reassure all staff including Manager that there will be no change?
5. Call his mum and than settle down to play battle ships on his laptop?
Tick as many or one!
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Out. We've been a total disgrace for 99% of this season.
Time for a change.
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He would be sacked at any other club.If we hadnt had the shambles of last 2 managers he would be gone.I thinl we all want stability but sometimes you can see something isnt working ..This is not working
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He is not very good is he? Looks as clueless as the last manager.
Its a bloody mess and I cant see it improving.
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Time to go I'm afraid. He's starting to make "Bingo Billy McNeill" look like a tactical genius! Hoddle for me!
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I really hope that article on the Express was true and RDM has been sounded out
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If faulkner does sack him then the new manager needs to be pass Lambert on the way in. Otherwise we are wasting not only time to get transfers in but time for the new manager to work with players and get us out of this mess. I would prefer to see Lambert stay and be given enough money to bring in at least 3 players.
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Has he resigned yet!?
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If faulkner does sack him then the new manager needs to be pass Lambert on the way in. Otherwise we are wasting not only time to get transfers in but time for the new manager to work with players and get us out of this mess. I would prefer to see Lambert stay and be given enough money to bring in at least 3 players.
No thanks. Bringing in new players doesn't stop him being tactically inept
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Gosh, hasn't he gone yet?
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So we sack him and hope we are suddenly quick at recruiting? I agree Lamberts tactics can be like a ten year old playing football manager, but I worry that the club will take to long to appoint a manager and we will be in a worse mess than now.
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I really hope that article on the Express was true and RDM has been sounded out
I really hope it isn't. As if last night wasn't bad enough.
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If it's true that we have next to nothing to spend I can't really anyone decent willing to take the reins and having to work with just the current squad to keep us up. I can't see it happening, I doubt we've even got the cash to sack a manager and his staff these days if this transfer window is anything to go by.
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I really hope that article on the Express was true and RDM has been sounded out
I really hope it isn't. As if last night wasn't bad enough.
It really was bad enough I'm afraid.The lowest point I've ever experienced
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Im hoping that lerner was waiting for last night to see what happened. Go through and back him with some cash or lose and sack him giving the cash to a new manager appointed tomorrow.
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Lambert has made lots of mistakes but there isn't a manager around who could fashion a decent side from this squad.
Too many players not good enough.
So why not let a new manager try and sort it out , we are worse now having spent £23m in the summer - time to end this farcical lambert reign.
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I really hope that article on the Express was true and RDM has been sounded out
I really hope it isn't. As if last night wasn't bad enough.
It really was bad enough I'm afraid.The lowest point I've ever experienced
RDM? Please no.
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I really hope that article on the Express was true and RDM has been sounded out
I really hope it isn't. As if last night wasn't bad enough.
It really was bad enough I'm afraid.The lowest point I've ever experienced
I agree, but RDM isn't the answer, unless the question is "Who looks like an onion?"
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It's just a case of anyone but Lambert for me at the moment.I just can't see the team improving under him I'm afraid, I'd rather give us a chance under someone else.
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RDM only worked at Chelsea because he had quality players. Can't believe anyone wants him
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It's just a case of anyone but Lambert for me at the moment.I just can't see the team improving under him I'm afraid, I'd rather give us a chance under someone else.
I know it's shite, and plenty of managers have gone for less, but there's no silver bullet answer to the shit we're in.
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RDM only worked at Chelsea because he had quality players. Can't believe anyone wants him
Compared to lambert he is a better option.
No chance of staying up under lambert , rdm would not be my preferred choice but i would take him rather than this clueless incumbent.
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We are damned if we do and damned if we don't frankly. The problems stem from mental ability and quality. Unless these are addressed it won't matter a jot who we sack and replace.
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Ne clearly cannot get the best out of his players or motivate - get rid!
Can understand why randy doesnt want to give him more money - lets get a new man in fast and bring back warnock and bent into the team , get a couple of players in and see the knock on effect of a new manager .
Would even consider nigel adkins.
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RDM only worked at Chelsea because he had quality players. Can't believe anyone wants him
He must have had to deploy some sort of tactics to win the European cup and FA Cup surely? Or did he just say to the players run round and please yourself and you tell me when you want me to make subs
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We've painted ourselves into a corner and there's no way out. Keeping him is wrong, sacking him is wrong. I hope he can turn it round cos I think he has the right idea. And there's no guarantee any other replacement you care to mention would be any better. Sacking a manager every year until one sticks is one easy way to spiral down out of control. On the other hand, he's looking inflexible and there's hubris in his personality that seems to be dragging us down. Everyone sees the problem with the team and either he doesn't or he does and can't fix it.
I have no bloody idea how this can be fixed.
Sadly I feel exactly the same way and couldn't have put it any better. If I was Randy, given the money that recent managerial changes at Villa have cost, I'd probably stick with Lambert and hope he can either perform some miracle now or, failing that, get us promoted first time next season. When I look at the squad we've got, I'm not sure if there's any manager either available or gettable right now who could turn them around quickly enough this season to keep us up. Would Nigel Adkins be worth sacking Lambert for? Could he do any better with our players? Could anyone? I'm not sure it would make any difference either way, so we may as well stick with who we've got.
But now is the time for Randy to act if he's going to - because if he doesn't, IMO there's not much point getting rid of Lambert in summer after we're down. And his track record so far suggests he won't sack a manager in mid-season.
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RDM will take us down, I really don't rate him. OK, Lambert is trying his hardest to take us down also, but out the 2 I would stick with him. Just wish he would play with width and bring back some of the older squad.
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With 8 days of the transfer window left I fear its too late now to find a manager and get the players in we need. We're just going to have to endure. How much more of this do we have to put up with? Could be a lot more. Its like the proverbial nightmare you can't wake up from.
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This is one of those EU polls, where we have to keep voting until we get the answer the question setter wants, right ?
While concerned about Lambert's subs and tactics in the second half of the last 2 games, I still don't see who better would take the job *under the current constraints* - it's been that way since MON left...
Secondly, if we were going to do it, we should have done it at the beginning of the transfer window, not at the end. Unless we have already tapped up a replacement and the players he wants, it's too late.
Finally, to those who point out Lambert spent £25m in the summer - that would have been an acceptable budget if we'd needed two or three players. Except we needed six or seven. And God knows what wage restrictions are also in place, cutting down the options.
We are doomed this season now whatever we do. Let's avoid another hefty compensation sum and let Lambert do what we already know he can - build a team to get into *and compete in* the Premier League.
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Get rid ASAP, I think he has clearly lost the players and doesn't seem to have any clue how to fix the tactics and organize the team. Mark Hughes wouldn't be the worst choice to replace him, at least better than Curbishley who's been out of the game for 5-6 years and Hughes might get best out of Ireland again.
Too bad Wolves already got Deano, at least he would instill some positivity into the team, knows the club and would be popular choice at least.
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I agree with Paulie any manager would struggle to fashion a good side out of this squad, but to be honest Lambert's tactics are embarrassing bad. Lerner needs to realise that of our academy products only Weimann is going to be a top player and the rest just aren't. Clark, Bannan, Baker, Lichaj, Herd just aren't up to playing in the Premier League week in week out. We have to invest in the squad now, 4 players could save us and the mananger does need to go now.
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If Mark Hughes and RDM are the offers on the table then no point twisting IMHO.
Adkins maybe but would he take the job now? I'm not being funny he could get offered a better opportunity than us in the next 6 months because Villa at the minute is a poisoned chalice (Martinez for one certainly thought so).
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Is he still here?
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Lots of good reasons being put forward to not get rid of him but none of them really address the fact that he got the tactics totally wrong in the last half hour.
At half time it was clear that, if we got wide and crossed in, they couldn't handle Benteke, as such we should have pushed Bannan out left (the best crosser in the team by a long way), nzog out right and got Ireland to tuck in a bit deeper. Then keep working it out wide, get Bennett and Lowton to overlap and we'd have created lots of chances.
Overloading the central area with forwards and hitting it long to them just played into their hands as they'd been defending deep with 2 banks of 4 all night so they just backed themselves to deal with long balls. Yes we scored from one of them but it still didn't work as a tactic.
His inability to see that making us wider was the answer was poor, to make the decision to actually make us narrower was unforgivable.
I like what Lambert is trying to do and everything he's done in terms of transfers and removing people from the squad I back, but you can't ignore the fact that in the last month he has got things wrong in every game, that prolonged tactical naivety can't go on, he's currently not performing as a premier league manager in that aspect and it's difficult to see how he can turn it around.
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Is he still here?
I'm desperately checking twitter every minute for any hint that he might be on his bike. Nought doing. I was hoping he'd be saying his goodbyes to the players this morning a la McLeish
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The problem for getting new manager is that they would probably want 20 million warchest and if it's true that Lerner won't sanction anything else than 30k salaries for max, I can't see anyone taking the job.
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This is one of those EU polls, where we have to keep voting until we get the answer the question setter wants, right ?
While concerned about Lambert's subs and tactics in the second half of the last 2 games, I still don't see who better would take the job *under the current constraints* - it's been that way since MON left...
Secondly, if we were going to do it, we should have done it at the beginning of the transfer window, not at the end. Unless we have already tapped up a replacement and the players he wants, it's too late.
Finally, to those who point out Lambert spent £25m in the summer - that would have been an acceptable budget if we'd needed two or three players. Except we needed six or seven. And God knows what wage restrictions are also in place, cutting down the options.
We are doomed this season now whatever we do. Let's avoid another hefty compensation sum and let Lambert do what we already know he can - build a team to get into *and compete in* the Premier League.
100% right imo.
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Geez i wonder sometimes, the problems left by MON are still crippling the club we have had three managers in quick succession that have all hit a brick wall,changing the manager yet again will solve nothing or do you expect Randy to be handing him a warchest of 30 million or so because that is what it will take. Wages are the big issue not the transfer price and what brilliant player is willing to come to us for 40.000 a week when he can get 60.000 somewhere else? Lambert bought well in the summer with the money availeable, you can't expect every player to be a hit especially in the market we are in. We have players that are not good enough and without money no manager can change that.
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Absolutely spot on. What's happening at the moment has been building for 4 years. If you constantly sell your best players to your (then) opposition and replace them with substandard or vastly overpriced players and poor managers your only going in one direction. It's all come to head this season and that's not PL's fault it's Faulkner and Learner's. The players he bought are good but are totally lacking in confidence. Lambert is a good coach but needs the opportunity to strengthen the squad
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Geez i wonder sometimes, the problems left by MON are still crippling the club we have had three managers in quick succession that have all hit a brick wall,changing the manager yet again will solve nothing or do you expect Randy to be handing him a warchest of 30 million or so because that is what it will take. Wages are the big issue not the transfer price and what brilliant player is willing to come to us for 40.000 a week when he can get 60.000 somewhere else? Lambert bought well in the summer with the money availeable, you can't expect every player to be a hit especially in the market we are in. We have players that are not good enough and without money no manager can change that.
I just don't understand the blame that MON gets(regarding money). EVERY penny was authorised from above.
He was caught short with full backs and some odd tactics during his time but overall he built a very good, competitive side.
He left us in the crap because of Randy's change of direction - surely it is very clear why he left now - our squad has been dismantled.
Randy should be the one getting ALL the abuse. He came here with his side kick promising the earth and has now decided it isn't worth it.
Fair play rules my arse. A rich kid that is bored with his toys.
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I get the feeling the club see us going out to Bradford as no big deal. Just a feeling.
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I keep refreshing newsnow to see if he has been sacked...
doesnt look like we are signing anyone or going to sack him... doomed!
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Geez i wonder sometimes, the problems left by MON are still crippling the club we have had three managers in quick succession that have all hit a brick wall,changing the manager yet again will solve nothing or do you expect Randy to be handing him a warchest of 30 million or so because that is what it will take. Wages are the big issue not the transfer price and what brilliant player is willing to come to us for 40.000 a week when he can get 60.000 somewhere else? Lambert bought well in the summer with the money availeable, you can't expect every player to be a hit especially in the market we are in. We have players that are not good enough and without money no manager can change that.
I just don't understand the blame that MON gets(regarding money). EVERY penny was authorised from above.
He was caught short with full backs and some odd tactics during his time but overall he built a very good, competitive side.
He left us in the crap because of Randy's change of direction - surely it is very clear why he left now - our squad has been dismantled.
Randy should be the one getting ALL the abuse. He came here with his side kick promising the earth and has now decided it isn't worth it.
Fair play rules my arse. A rich kid that is bored with his toys.
Every peny wasn't spent in a wise way. We could see that. Even at the time. Hindsight doesn't need to tell you the cash spent on Heskey, Harewood etc was bad.
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Geez i wonder sometimes, the problems left by MON are still crippling the club we have had three managers in quick succession that have all hit a brick wall,changing the manager yet again will solve nothing or do you expect Randy to be handing him a warchest of 30 million or so because that is what it will take. Wages are the big issue not the transfer price and what brilliant player is willing to come to us for 40.000 a week when he can get 60.000 somewhere else? Lambert bought well in the summer with the money availeable, you can't expect every player to be a hit especially in the market we are in. We have players that are not good enough and without money no manager can change that.
I just don't understand the blame that MON gets(regarding money). EVERY penny was authorised from above.
He was caught short with full backs and some odd tactics during his time but overall he built a very good, competitive side.
He left us in the crap because of Randy's change of direction - surely it is very clear why he left now - our squad has been dismantled.
Randy should be the one getting ALL the abuse. He came here with his side kick promising the earth and has now decided it isn't worth it.
Fair play rules my arse. A rich kid that is bored with his toys.
Bang on Malandro.
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that's not PL's fault it's Faulkner and Learner's. The players he bought are good but are totally lacking in confidence. Lambert is a good coach but needs the opportunity to strengthen the squad
Lerner's clearly an absolute clueless twat but Lambert really doesnt help himself. He's in a position where he's unlikely to get the sack soon (judging by the way Lerner dragged his heels over sacking McShit last yeat) so why doesnt he speak up a bit more? complain publicly that he's not getting the funds required to guarantee safety. He might be able to get a few more fans onside by at least pretending that he wants more/better players. Listen to managers like Rednapp who constantly talk in the press about needing to strengthen to compete, trying to turn public opinion against his chairman and force him to get the cheque book out. Lambert does none of this. He should grow a pair of bollocks and stop coming accross as some sort of Yes Man for Lerner.
I'm sick of both of them but it looks like we're stuck with them
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If we look at the first XI that played quite regularly in MON's season:
Friedel
Young/Cuellar - Dunne - Collins - Warnock
Downing - Milner - Petrov - Young
Carew Gabby
Only Gabby and Dunne remain. Of course Warnock is there but deemed surplus to requirements.
Of the players that have been sold/released/ lost for other reasons, how many have been replaced with players approaching anything close to their calibre?
Bent is the obvious one (although it does beg the question why MON wasn't given that money in the summer he left, might have saved us a whole lot of trouble).
Vlaar on paper as a Dutch international should be up to it, but...
I had hopes N'Zogbia would push on to be our next Ashley Young, hasn't happened. Friedel for Given, would have been ok if it wasn't for Given's injury problems and loss of form since.
Essentially, we (Randy) have let the guts of a team go and aside from a one off splurge on Bent (which after the Milner, Young and Downing money, still left him with a nice little profit) he has instructed managers to make do with youngsters playing in the reserves.
That's not even getting into all the squad players that are gone, who may not have been world beaters, but could do a job when needed.
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that's not PL's fault it's Faulkner and Learner's. The players he bought are good but are totally lacking in confidence. Lambert is a good coach but needs the opportunity to strengthen the squad
Lerner's clearly an absolute clueless twat but Lambert really doesnt help himself. He's in a position where he's unlikely to get the sack soon (judging by the way Lerner dragged his heels over sacking McShit last yeat) so why doesnt he speak up a bit more? complain publicly that he's not getting the funds required to guarantee safety. He might be able to get a few more fans onside by at least pretending that he wants more/better players. Listen to managers like Rednapp who constantly talk in the press about needing to strengthen to compete, trying to turn public opinion against his chairman and force him to get the cheque book out. Lambert does none of this. He should grow a pair of bollocks and stop coming accross as some sort of Yes Man for Lerner.
I'm sick of both of them but it looks like we're stuck with them
Do you really want Lambert to turn into a mouthpiece like Redknapp?? I'd rather get relegated and maintain some dignity.
The reason he is not saying anything to the press is because he knew the situation when he came in. I think he underestimated the job at hand and I feel sorry for him.
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I'd rather get relegated and maintain some dignity.
You think we can maintain a scrap of dignity if we get relegated?
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This is one of those EU polls, where we have to keep voting until we get the answer the question setter wants, right ?
While concerned about Lambert's subs and tactics in the second half of the last 2 games, I still don't see who better would take the job *under the current constraints* - it's been that way since MON left...
Secondly, if we were going to do it, we should have done it at the beginning of the transfer window, not at the end. Unless we have already tapped up a replacement and the players he wants, it's too late.
Finally, to those who point out Lambert spent £25m in the summer - that would have been an acceptable budget if we'd needed two or three players. Except we needed six or seven. And God knows what wage restrictions are also in place, cutting down the options.
We are doomed this season now whatever we do. Let's avoid another hefty compensation sum and let Lambert do what we already know he can - build a team to get into *and compete in* the Premier League.
I agree.
I understand the bloodlust some people have, and strictly speaking, he deserves the sack, but the alternatives will be no better.
Lerner has GOT to back his man, and very quickly.
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I'd rather get relegated and maintain some dignity.
You think we can maintain a scrap of dignity if we get relegated?
Compared with having 'Arry Redknapp as an ambassador for the club moaning to the press about having no money??? Yes.
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I'd rather get relegated and maintain some dignity.
You think we can maintain a scrap of dignity if we get relegated?
Well I don't want sound like a Nose or a Doghead but I am getting pretty sick to the back teeth of us losing every week.
Whatever division we're in the club needs to start consistently winning some fucking games.
The last 3 years just feels like death by a thousand cuts.
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How can anyone still say he's a good coach ?
Tactically woeful .
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Compared with having 'Arry Redknapp as an ambassador for the club moaning to the press about having no money??? Yes
who the fuck said they wanted Rednapp a manager???
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Geez i wonder sometimes, the problems left by MON are still crippling the club we have had three managers in quick succession that have all hit a brick wall,changing the manager yet again will solve nothing or do you expect Randy to be handing him a warchest of 30 million or so because that is what it will take. Wages are the big issue not the transfer price and what brilliant player is willing to come to us for 40.000 a week when he can get 60.000 somewhere else? Lambert bought well in the summer with the money availeable, you can't expect every player to be a hit especially in the market we are in. We have players that are not good enough and without money no manager can change that.
I just don't understand the blame that MON gets(regarding money). EVERY penny was authorised from above.
He was caught short with full backs and some odd tactics during his time but overall he built a very good, competitive side.
He left us in the crap because of Randy's change of direction - surely it is very clear why he left now - our squad has been dismantled.
Randy should be the one getting ALL the abuse. He came here with his side kick promising the earth and has now decided it isn't worth it.
Fair play rules my arse. A rich kid that is bored with his toys.
Every peny wasn't spent in a wise way. We could see that. Even at the time. Hindsight doesn't need to tell you the cash spent on Heskey, Harewood etc was bad.
It really is unimportant who he bought and whether they were a success. The crux is that Randy bought the club and decided to invest his own money (Or is it a club debt now?) He obviously realised at some point that he could not compete and so has more or less pulled the plug.
Or perhaps I am being to unfair to Randy, perhaps he just made a mistake. Did he think short term success and investment would lead to more outside investment and a self sufficient, successful club?
Personally I think he has treated us fans badly. The Krulak affair confirmed it to me - no matter what abuse the General took online, the majority of people who treated him with respect deserved an explanation.
Then again, his disappearance coincided with the tap being switched off.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble, I had to collect a friend from Heathrow at 3am. So bushed.
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Tactically poor at times however I agree with Robbo, Whats going to change under anyone else? We've been shit for 3 years under 3 different managers, Where do you draw the line?
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I can't believe Houliier, McLeish and Lambert have done no training on set pieces but it's a consistent weakness. Easy to blame the managers/coaches. It it just seems like the players aren't any good to me.
Delph was probably our best player last night but just did what you would expect from a standard professional footballer.
If we sack lambert but the conditions with transfers and wages remain the same I think it wouldn't make much difference. It might give the players a lift if it was a manager with a redknapp style reputation, but we won't attract those managers under our current conditions.
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Tactically poor at times however I agree with Robbo, Whats going to change under anyone else? We've been shit for 3 years under 3 different managers, Where do you draw the line?
a hard one to call. His approach and style on one hand looked attractive but the manner of the defeats (size of defeat, lack of goals and terrible ball retention) is really alarming.
I wont be disappointed if he is sacked, but have zero faith in a new chap to be either any good or to be backed
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Tough call for Lerner, if there is no cash for Lambert to spend, to keep us in the division, then I assume there is no cash for a new manager to spend to also try and keep us in the division. Especially once he's paid up Lamberts contract. Mess.
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Here's a good example of why we've become so utterly shit.
Villa v Blackburn, Carling Cup semi final, 20 Jan 2010
Guzan
Cuellar - Collins - Dunne - Warnock
Downing - Milner - Petrov - Young
Agbonlahor - Heskey
compare that with last night's team, and even allowing for the presence of Heskey, you can see the comparative lack of quality.
Lambert has to share his shoulder of the blame for this season, but the overall trend has been downwards for three years now. Selling the best players, replacing them with shit, or with kids who are clearly not up to the tast yet - that is going to end up in tears.
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I can't believe Houliier, McLeish and Lambert have done no training on set pieces but it's a consistent weakness. Easy to blame the managers/coaches. It it just seems like the players aren't any good to me.
Lambert said last night we practice set pieces everyday.
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I can't believe Houliier, McLeish and Lambert have done no training on set pieces but it's a consistent weakness. Easy to blame the managers/coaches. It it just seems like the players aren't any good to me.
Lambert said last night we practice set pieces everyday.
He isn't going to say "We don't bother to practice them"
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Here's a good example of why we've become so utterly shit.
Villa v Blackburn, Carling Cup semi final, 20 Jan 2010
Guzan
Cuellar - Collins - Dunne - Warnock
Downing - Milner - Petrov - Young
Agbonlahor - Heskey
compare that with last night's team, and even allowing for the presence of Heskey, you can see the comparative lack of quality.
Lambert has to share his shoulder of the blame for this season, but the overall trend has been downwards for three years now. Selling the best players, replacing them with shit, or with kids who are clearly not up to the tast yet - that is going to end up in tears.
Made a very similar point the previous page. From that team Bent for Heskey is the only improvement made. The rest have all been replaced by inferior players or not replaced at all and the position is filled by a former youth player/reserve.
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It's a catch 22 again.
There's no point in sacking him because there's nobody better (Ole Gunnar Solskjær FFS) and it would put us back to square one again.
Not convinced that Lerner would be prepared to do that again
Nobody better, how on earth do you come to that conclusion? He's been beyond abysmal, I'd take just about any out-of-work manager ahead of Lambert.
Quite. There's mountains of evidence to indicate that almost anybody would be better.
Whilst I agree, I think that only applies to the short term. We clearly need someone big/good enough to build something long term, or in 12 months time we'll be in exactly the same position
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Here's a good example of why we've become so utterly shit.
Villa v Blackburn, Carling Cup semi final, 20 Jan 2010
Guzan
Cuellar - Collins - Dunne - Warnock
Downing - Milner - Petrov - Young
Agbonlahor - Heskey
compare that with last night's team, and even allowing for the presence of Heskey, you can see the comparative lack of quality.
Lambert has to share his shoulder of the blame for this season, but the overall trend has been downwards for three years now. Selling the best players, replacing them with shit, or with kids who are clearly not up to the tast yet - that is going to end up in tears.
Agree about the Team line up, The only change between that team and the current one that I can see is Vlaar for either Dunne or Collins and Benteke for Heskey.
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If we look at the first XI that played quite regularly in MON's season:
Friedel
Young/Cuellar - Dunne - Collins - Warnock
Downing - Milner - Petrov - Young
Carew Gabby
Only Gabby and Dunne remain. Of course Warnock is there but deemed surplus to requirements.
Of the players that have been sold/released/ lost for other reasons, how many have been replaced with players approaching anything close to their calibre?
Bent is the obvious one (although it does beg the question why MON wasn't given that money in the summer he left, might have saved us a whole lot of trouble).
Vlaar on paper as a Dutch international should be up to it, but...
I had hopes N'Zogbia would push on to be our next Ashley Young, hasn't happened. Friedel for Given, would have been ok if it wasn't for Given's injury problems and loss of form since.
Essentially, we (Randy) have let the guts of a team go and aside from a one off splurge on Bent (which after the Milner, Young and Downing money, still left him with a nice little profit) he has instructed managers to make do with youngsters playing in the reserves.
That's not even getting into all the squad players that are gone, who may not have been world beaters, but could do a job when needed.
I'm afraid this is bullshit, the players have been replaced in a perfectly reasonable fashion, the problem is that the people making the replacements have all had different ideas on how they want to play the game.
Lets include Barry as well:
Friedel - replaced by Given, no one complained at the time.
Young - replaced by Hutton, agreed he's a crap replacement but that's a TSM decision, from a lerner point of view we replaced an international full back with an international full back.
Collins - replaced by Vlaar, no one complained at the time.
Barry - replaced in the squad with Downing allowing Milner to move infield.
Petrov - Harsh to include him but was replaced by KEA who many on here thought was going to be fantastic.
Downing - not replaced initially but Holman came in to fill the gap after a year, lots of people liked Holman early on.
Milner - replaced by Ireland, many thought we got the better of the deal at the time.
Young - replaced by Nzogbia, many people thought we'd got an upgrade.
Carew - replaced by Bent, unquestionably an upgrade
Squad filler has left and been replaced from the reserves I agree but that's just common sense, players like Beye, sidwell, etc being paid 40-50k to barely play doesn't make any sense, the academy players are perfectly capable of providing the 20minute cameos from the bench and having an impact. The problems have come about because those academy players aren't being asked to do that, they're being asked to form the spine of the team because the senior players listed above have, pretty much, all failed to deliver as expected.
Lerner is guilty of not having a consistent plan for recruitment of managers, he is not guilty of allowing players to leave and go unreplaced as so many people suggest. Every single one of the players marked in bold came to the club as an experienced international footballer.
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Also the players in that team v blackburn fitted their roles. Cuellar might have been an unpopular choice for many at full back but you could see the logic in him playing.
Now we seem to have too many players who don't fit the roles they need to play, bannan in defensive midfield, but really him ireland and nzogbia are all best suited to the attacking midfield role. Probably Delphs best position too. Our midfielders generally are jack of all trades types who lack composure and decent deciscion making, a disaster if you are plYing without width. We've got 4 decent strikers, more than we can accommodate, but only one half decent winger in Nzogbia.
Our squad has been built by accident rather than design, a group of left overs that nobody else wants, a group of kids who happen to have graduated from the academy at a convenient time, and a glut of cheap gambles to plug the gaps.
It's left us with not only a dearth of quality but also a selection of Mis shaped pegs to go into the holes.
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How can anyone still say he's a good coach ?
Tactically woeful .
It is good coach who can win back to back promotions and finish mid table in his first season in the Prem League.
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I voted out for the first time. He's doing something badly wrong now that must be eroding the confidence of the players in him. A huge part of being a successful manager at any trade is for your people to believe in your plans, other wise at best you get mediocrity and at worst failure.
I don't care much who they bring in, as long as they bring belief with them.
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If we look at the first XI that played quite regularly in MON's season:
Friedel
Young/Cuellar - Dunne - Collins - Warnock
Downing - Milner - Petrov - Young
Carew Gabby
Only Gabby and Dunne remain. Of course Warnock is there but deemed surplus to requirements.
Of the players that have been sold/released/ lost for other reasons, how many have been replaced with players approaching anything close to their calibre?
Bent is the obvious one (although it does beg the question why MON wasn't given that money in the summer he left, might have saved us a whole lot of trouble).
Vlaar on paper as a Dutch international should be up to it, but...
I had hopes N'Zogbia would push on to be our next Ashley Young, hasn't happened. Friedel for Given, would have been ok if it wasn't for Given's injury problems and loss of form since.
Essentially, we (Randy) have let the guts of a team go and aside from a one off splurge on Bent (which after the Milner, Young and Downing money, still left him with a nice little profit) he has instructed managers to make do with youngsters playing in the reserves.
That's not even getting into all the squad players that are gone, who may not have been world beaters, but could do a job when needed.
I'm afraid this is bullshit, the players have been replaced in a perfectly reasonable fashion, the problem is that the people making the replacements have all had different ideas on how they want to play the game.
Lets include Barry as well:
Friedel - replaced by Given, no one complained at the time.
Young - replaced by Hutton, agreed he's a crap replacement but that's a TSM decision, from a lerner point of view we replaced an international full back with an international full back.
Collins - replaced by Vlaar, no one complained at the time.
Barry - replaced in the squad with Downing allowing Milner to move infield.
Petrov - Harsh to include him but was replaced by KEA who many on here thought was going to be fantastic.
Downing - not replaced initially but Holman came in to fill the gap after a year, lots of people liked Holman early on.
Milner - replaced by Ireland, many thought we got the better of the deal at the time.
Young - replaced by Nzogbia, many people thought we'd got an upgrade.
Carew - replaced by Bent, unquestionably an upgrade
Squad filler has left and been replaced from the reserves I agree but that's just common sense, players like Beye, sidwell, etc being paid 40-50k to barely play doesn't make any sense, the academy players are perfectly capable of providing the 20minute cameos from the bench and having an impact. The problems have come about because those academy players aren't being asked to do that, they're being asked to form the spine of the team because the senior players listed above have, pretty much, all failed to deliver as expected.
Lerner is guilty of not having a consistent plan for recruitment of managers, he is not guilty of allowing players to leave and go unreplaced as so many people suggest. Every single one of the players marked in bold came to the club as an experienced international footballer.
All of your comments are "people thought" I don't care what people thought, its what is actually happening that im concerned about!
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I voted out for the first time. He's doing something badly wrong now that must be eroding the confidence of the players in him. A huge part of being a successful manager at any trade is for your people to believe in your plans, other wise at best you get mediocrity and at worst failure.
I don't care much who they bring in, as long as they bring belief with them.
If they do replace him I very much care who they bring in.
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It's a catch 22 again.
There's no point in sacking him because there's nobody better (Ole Gunnar Solskjær FFS) and it would put us back to square one again.
Not convinced that Lerner would be prepared to do that again
Nobody better, how on earth do you come to that conclusion? He's been beyond abysmal, I'd take just about any out-of-work manager ahead of Lambert.
Quite. There's mountains of evidence to indicate that almost anybody would be better.
Whilst I agree, I think that only applies to the short term. We clearly need someone big/good enough to build something long term, or in 12 months time we'll be in exactly the same position
I quite agree Mac, but getting things right in the long term will be monumentally buggered if we go down, and for that we reason we need a short term emergency appoinment to keep us up, then we can hold the post-mortem in the summer.
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Let's bring Houllier back.
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I voted out for the first time. He's doing something badly wrong now that must be eroding the confidence of the players in him. A huge part of being a successful manager at any trade is for your people to believe in your plans, other wise at best you get mediocrity and at worst failure.
I don't care much who they bring in, as long as they bring belief with them.
I agree with this. The players either don't know what to do or they don't want to do what they are being told. We need some way to get this team organised and to do basic things and this will bring confidence. It's desperately sad to see it going wrong for Lambert as he has bought in some good players on a budget and we have shown hints of how good we could be.
Overall though, we are a shambles and the buck must stop with him. If he's lost the dressing room then he has to go sooner rather than later.
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Milner - replaced by Ireland, many thought we got the better of the deal at the time.
Young - replaced by Nzogbia, many people thought we'd got an upgrade.
Who are these people, and why do their carers let them post on the internet?
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mrfuse, forget that then. The reality is we replaced 9 full internationals with 9 other full internationals, pretty much of equal quality. That the new ones have turned out to not be as good as they can be doesn't stop them from being effective replacements at the time they were signed.
Slagging Lerner for allowing players to leave without replacements is pure fabrication. The only season we've made a profit since he took over was last year, he has made money available and he has signed the players the managers wanted. His fault is in the choice of managers being far too diverse, but that isn't solved by demanding more money.
We've needed to have some direction from the board on how they want to play so they could hire managers to fit that model. What we should be calling Lerner out on is to get an experienced Director of Football in so he can spent his money wisely, rather than just spending more of it.
To an extent Lambert is a victim of this as much as anything but he's shown himself up as incredibly naive with his tactical choices, since the Chelsea defeat he's stumbled from bad decision to bad decision and seems lost as to how to get out of that slump. No two ways about it, a run of performances like we've seen should end in the sack, I've backed him until now but he got the tactics so wrong in the 2nd half last night that I can't see any way to defend him any more.
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Spot on Paul-e.
He decision making has been reasoned but all our key signings until benteke have been flops. I wasn't in favour of signing Hutton, but I can see why Mcleish thought he could get the best out of a player who had performed well enough under him at rangers to move to spurs for 10mill. I can see why we took a gamble on Ireland as poor as he has been (wonder who it was who did sign him?)
And so on, throughout the list you gave. Every one has been a let down when we desperately needed them to work out.
Lamberts getting stick for his youth policy, but with the financial restraints what could he do? Older, experienced players cost more, players with premier league experience cost even more. His budget was stretched too thin as it was. With the number of flops we had we needed about 8 quality players in, we signed a number of players of whom a couple have looked good. Not sure what else he could have done really.
The main problem is above lambert, but with the ammont of money Lerner has spent for the return, both financial and on the field, I don't particularly blame him for trying another way either. We are in the middle of a perfect storm I think and can only see it ending with us going down at the moment.
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I can't believe Houliier, McLeish and Lambert have done no training on set pieces but it's a consistent weakness. Easy to blame the managers/coaches. It it just seems like the players aren't any good to me.
Lambert said last night we practice set pieces everyday.
[/quote
We probably do practice them everyday but when they are practicing defending bannan's s##t outswinging floated corners in training it's no use.
His corners must be the worse ive ever seen at villa,the opposition look more dangerous from them than us when they break.
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Milner - replaced by Ireland, many thought we got the better of the deal at the time.
Young - replaced by Nzogbia, many people thought we'd got an upgrade.
Who are these people, and why do their carers let them post on the internet?
Check back on the post on here around the time, plenty of people thought Ireland would give us more cutting edge and provide more assists and Nzogbia would be a much bigger goal threat than Young, whilst still providing assists, etc.
Django - my point exactly, it's hard to point fingers and blame people when, for whatever reason, every major signing we made between Downing and Benteke has turned out to be a huge waste of money.
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Milner - replaced by Ireland, many thought we got the better of the deal at the time.
Young - replaced by Nzogbia, many people thought we'd got an upgrade.
Who are these people, and why do their carers let them post on the internet?
Check back on the post on here around the time, plenty of people thought Ireland would give us more cutting edge and provide more assists and Nzogbia would be a much bigger goal threat than Young, whilst still providing assists, etc.
Django - my point exactly, it's hard to point fingers and blame people when, for whatever reason, every major signing we made between Downing and Benteke has turned out to be a huge waste of money.
For what it's worth I thought N'Zogbia for £10m was a great deal in the context of losing Downing for £20m.
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I can't believe Houliier, McLeish and Lambert have done no training on set pieces but it's a consistent weakness. Easy to blame the managers/coaches. It it just seems like the players aren't any good to me.
Lambert said last night we practice set pieces everyday.
[/quote
We probably do practice them everyday but when they are practicing defending bannan's s##t outswinging floated corners in training it's no use.
His corners must be the worse ive ever seen at villa,the opposition look more dangerous from them than us when they break.
Yeah maybe that's the problem, our defenders never actually get to practice heading the ball as it floats aimlessly over their heads. Lamberts probably mystified, thinking "it's so strange we never concede from corners in training"
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@JamesNursey: #AVFC as a club had so much upheaval since O'Neill quit, told no desire to sack Lambert
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How can anyone still say he's a good coach ?
Tactically woeful .
It is good coach who can win back to back promotions and finish mid table in his first season in the Prem League.
He has been here 6 months - this team has gone backwards in that time - thats not a good coach in my opinion.
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Milner - replaced by Ireland, many thought we got the better of the deal at the time.
Young - replaced by Nzogbia, many people thought we'd got an upgrade.
Who are these people, and why do their carers let them post on the internet?
Check back on the post on here around the time, plenty of people thought Ireland would give us more cutting edge and provide more assists and Nzogbia would be a much bigger goal threat than Young, whilst still providing assists, etc.
Django - my point exactly, it's hard to point fingers and blame people when, for whatever reason, every major signing we made between Downing and Benteke has turned out to be a huge waste of money.
For what it's worth I thought N'Zogbia for £10m was a great deal in the context of losing Downing for £20m.
It was on paper. As was Milner for Ireland + £18m or whatever it was. However, on the pitch these players really haven't done what we would expect of them.
As for Lambert, I think his hands were tied in the summer over wages more than transfer fee. Nobody wanted Hutton or Warnock anywhere near the side, but we stillhad to pay them. As we have with Dunne and Makoun and Ireland and the list goes on.
His biggest fault is not getting the defence right. It's just the basics really, so it baffles me why we can't tighten up. It's eroding the good work he is doing in trying to get us to play a better style of possession and attacking football.
I'm in the 'back him' camp as we've changed manager's too often and his policy over youth is the way forward for us to try and get back to the top 6. However, it may not be the way to fight our way out of the present predicament.
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@JamesNursey: #AVFC as a club had so much upheaval since O'Neill quit, told no desire to sack Lambert
Lambert's caused more upheaval than anybody else!
Lerner must be the stupidest billionaire on the planet. He deserved to lose millions, the thick fucker.
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I think they mean there is no money to sack Lambert...
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Milner - replaced by Ireland, many thought we got the better of the deal at the time.
Young - replaced by Nzogbia, many people thought we'd got an upgrade.
Who are these people, and why do their carers let them post on the internet?
Check back on the post on here around the time, plenty of people thought Ireland would give us more cutting edge and provide more assists and Nzogbia would be a much bigger goal threat than Young, whilst still providing assists, etc.
Django - my point exactly, it's hard to point fingers and blame people when, for whatever reason, every major signing we made between Downing and Benteke has turned out to be a huge waste of money.
And plenty thought they were a downgrade as well.
Last summer's signings were the biggest catastrophe though. How anyone in their right mind would think packing the team out with lower league players was the way forward is beyond me. It was absolute madness, and let's not forget that many fans fell for the "young and hungry" bullshit.
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@JamesNursey: #AVFC as a club had so much upheaval since O'Neill quit, told no desire to sack Lambert
Lambert's caused more upheaval than anybody else!
Lerner must be the stupidest billionaire on the planet. He deserved to lose millions, the thick fucker.
If Nursey is right and that's a big if we are fucked.
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Can someone tell me how much money we lose if we spent, say, 2 seasons in the 2nd division. I mean the old second division?
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Sometimes a single game stands out as a turning point in many manager's careers. Ironically, it was an away win at Bradford when many first thought SGT was getting his squad right and we would be on our way to getting promoted.
Unfortunately downward turning points or nadirs in other managers careers at Villa are fresher inth memory. Games when decent managers with good reputations simply seemed to loose the plot and with it the respect of fans who were hitherto prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.
In recent times we remember Houlier against Sunderland when we ended up playing with the defenders up front, and the forwards at the back. TSM against Bolton. And now we can add Lambert vs. Bradford to the list.
Once managers don't know their best XI or even their best formation then the writing is on the wall. When they don't know that football teams need a midfield or wingers and wide midfielders not only provide service to the forwards, but also protect your full backs, then the end is surely nigh.
Why do managers who have played more high standard football, seen more games than any of us, and have worked with best coaches across Europe end up in such a state of muddled thinking where they don't seem to know their arse from their elbow?
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It's still not clear whether Lambert actually wants to sign more experienced players who demand higher wages. I imagine that during initial talks with Lerner it was put to him that the wage bill was still too high and Lambert said he didn't have a problem with that having gotten the best out of moderately paid players over the past few years. Hence buying so many young, lower-league players in the summer.
We went for Dempsey which suggests there was a bit more leeway for at least one more high-earner. I just don't think it's certain that Lerner is blocking Lambert's requests for new signings on £40k+ a week. Lambert's unwavering philosophy in youth and hunger accounts for a large part of it I feel. Which we now know is not enough to keep us competitive.
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It's not enough to keep us competetive with league 2 opposition let alone Premiership
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Andy Gray in talking sense shocker
Andy Gray has blasted Paul Lambert’s tactics and insists Aston Villa can’t hide behind excuses of youth and inexperience.
Villa crashed out of the Capital One Cup on Tuesday night in a 4-3 aggregate defeat by League Two Bradford in the semi-final.
And Gray, who won the League Cup with the Midlands giants in 1977, was furious at what he saw from his former club.
He said: “It was a huge disappointment for every Villa fan. I was surprised at Villa’s selection, they should have mirrored Bradford’s formation.
“They made a mistake by not playing Andreas Weimann, a guy who has scored seven goals in his last nine games. That surprised me from Paul [Lambert]. He obviously had his reasons, but I didn’t get that. He should have stuck Weimann up front alongside Christian Benteke. He’s full of confidence as he showed when he came on.
“That was a mistake I wouldn’t have made, I don’t think. But Lambert picks the team and decided not to go with it. I would have done, you’ve got to believe you’ve got better players than a League Two side, so what’s wrong with pairing them right across the pitch and saying , ‘we’ll mirror you because we’ve got better players than you’.
The last half hour especially really, really, really disappointed me. I don’t know what Paul [Lambert] was trying to do
“The last half hour especially really, really, really disappointed me. I don’t know what Paul was trying to do. There was an unbelievable lack of width. Every time they got the ball it was just whacked up into the box and there were four of five players within seven or eight yards square around the edge of the box.
“It was just hit and hope football and I couldn’t catch my breath at what I was seeing. “
Gray also dismisses the argument that Villa’s lack of experience was a decisive factor in the two-legged tie.
“Don’t let anyone got on again about age,” he added. “There was nothing in the ages of these teams to separate them.
“The Villa side - you talk about them not being experienced - but look at Given, Vlaar, Clark, who has played more 50 Premier League games, Bannan, a Scottish international, N’Zogbia, hundreds of Premier League games, Ireland, hundreds of Premier League games, Agbonlahor, hundreds of Premier League games, Benteke, an international footballer.
“Don’t give me that this is an inexperienced and young side, and that’s cost them. It wasn’t.”
Read more at http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/130123/exclusive-andy-gray-insists-there-are-no-excuses-aston-villas-capital-on-1899#DZFrwcH0HudZ4TaL.99
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This is one of those EU polls, where we have to keep voting until we get the answer the question setter wants, right ?
While concerned about Lambert's subs and tactics in the second half of the last 2 games, I still don't see who better would take the job *under the current constraints* - it's been that way since MON left...
Secondly, if we were going to do it, we should have done it at the beginning of the transfer window, not at the end. Unless we have already tapped up a replacement and the players he wants, it's too late.
Finally, to those who point out Lambert spent £25m in the summer - that would have been an acceptable budget if we'd needed two or three players. Except we needed six or seven. And God knows what wage restrictions are also in place, cutting down the options.
We are doomed this season now whatever we do. Let's avoid another hefty compensation sum and let Lambert do what we already know he can - build a team to get into *and compete in* the Premier League.
100% right imo.
Couldn't be more right.
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@JamesNursey: #AVFC as a club had so much upheaval since O'Neill quit, told no desire to sack Lambert
Lambert's caused more upheaval than anybody else!
Lerner must be the stupidest billionaire on the planet. He deserved to lose millions, the thick fucker.
Fine if they have no desire to sack him, then they have to back him financially. It is complete suicide if we don't address the gaping holes in our team within the next week.
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If we go down there's no way Lambert should still be in charge. Madness that people are suggesting someone who'd have a record worse than Turner/Mcneill should still be in charge in the championship. He's not the first villa manager to have shit players and no money either.
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Andy Gray in talking sense shocker
Andy Gray has blasted Paul Lambert’s tactics and insists Aston Villa can’t hide behind excuses of youth and inexperience.
Villa crashed out of the Capital One Cup on Tuesday night in a 4-3 aggregate defeat by League Two Bradford in the semi-final.
And Gray, who won the League Cup with the Midlands giants in 1977, was furious at what he saw from his former club.
He said: “It was a huge disappointment for every Villa fan. I was surprised at Villa’s selection, they should have mirrored Bradford’s formation.
“They made a mistake by not playing Andreas Weimann, a guy who has scored seven goals in his last nine games. That surprised me from Paul [Lambert]. He obviously had his reasons, but I didn’t get that. He should have stuck Weimann up front alongside Christian Benteke. He’s full of confidence as he showed when he came on.
“That was a mistake I wouldn’t have made, I don’t think. But Lambert picks the team and decided not to go with it. I would have done, you’ve got to believe you’ve got better players than a League Two side, so what’s wrong with pairing them right across the pitch and saying , ‘we’ll mirror you because we’ve got better players than you’.
The last half hour especially really, really, really disappointed me. I don’t know what Paul [Lambert] was trying to do
“The last half hour especially really, really, really disappointed me. I don’t know what Paul was trying to do. There was an unbelievable lack of width. Every time they got the ball it was just whacked up into the box and there were four of five players within seven or eight yards square around the edge of the box.
“It was just hit and hope football and I couldn’t catch my breath at what I was seeing. “
Gray also dismisses the argument that Villa’s lack of experience was a decisive factor in the two-legged tie.
“Don’t let anyone got on again about age,” he added. “There was nothing in the ages of these teams to separate them.
“The Villa side - you talk about them not being experienced - but look at Given, Vlaar, Clark, who has played more 50 Premier League games, Bannan, a Scottish international, N’Zogbia, hundreds of Premier League games, Ireland, hundreds of Premier League games, Agbonlahor, hundreds of Premier League games, Benteke, an international footballer.
“Don’t give me that this is an inexperienced and young side, and that’s cost them. It wasn’t.”
Read more at http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/130123/exclusive-andy-gray-insists-there-are-no-excuses-aston-villas-capital-on-1899#DZFrwcH0HudZ4TaL.99
He's spot on with the assessment of the 2nd half. First half we were fine and set the foundation to get 3-4 more in the 2nd half and get through comfortably but a couple of mistakes got them a goal and then the leadership and tactics from Lambert were pathetic.
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I'm assuming Weimann didn't start because of the illness that caused him to miss the Albion game.
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Surely now has to be the time to start the pressure on Lerner!? Can't believe how he's gotten away from vocal detest during games.
If we started the pound signs and chants like the Ellis days!? Surely it's got to be better than no showing our discontent?
Sure we could get pubs signs printed and handed out for Tuesday night.
Lerner quite simply needs to shit or get off the pot
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Surely now has to be the time to start the pressure on Lerner!? Can't believe how he's gotten away from vocal detest during games.
If we started the pound signs and chants like the Ellis days!? Surely it's got to be better than no showing our discontent?
Sure we could get pubs signs printed and handed out for Tuesday night.
Lerner quite simply needs to shit or get off the pot
Fin Feds Dad said this bloody months ago. He coaches his own team of kids. Fin Feds Dad for our next manager.
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Ellis got slaughtered by fans for a lot less than what the cretinous Lerner has put us through lately. It seems the fans are nearly as apathetic as the owner.
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Surely now has to be the time to start the pressure on Lerner!? Can't believe how he's gotten away from vocal detest during games.
If we started the pound signs and chants like the Ellis days!? Surely it's got to be better than no showing our discontent?
Sure we could get pubs signs printed and handed out for Tuesday night.
Lerner quite simply needs to shit or get off the pot
Fin Feds Dad said this bloody months ago. He coaches his own team of kids. Fin Feds Dad for our next manager.
Think it's time for a poll to see who's up for bring the pound signs out?
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He needs at least the season to see where we end up. Sacking him now means more upheaval. If he keeps us up then great, we're a work in progress. If we go down then i can't see how he can survive.
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Perhaps all the fighting Ellis and appearing to win with the Lerner take over only for things to go so badly has left the fans as deflated as the players become after conceding ?
Plus with the money in football what it is who realistically is going to what to take us over especially with the FFP rules being pushed for in the league >
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Talking of Shaun Teale . On TKs in a bit .
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This is one of those EU polls, where we have to keep voting until we get the answer the question setter wants, right ?
While concerned about Lambert's subs and tactics in the second half of the last 2 games, I still don't see who better would take the job *under the current constraints* - it's been that way since MON left...
Secondly, if we were going to do it, we should have done it at the beginning of the transfer window, not at the end. Unless we have already tapped up a replacement and the players he wants, it's too late.
Finally, to those who point out Lambert spent £25m in the summer - that would have been an acceptable budget if we'd needed two or three players. Except we needed six or seven. And God knows what wage restrictions are also in place, cutting down the options.
We are doomed this season now whatever we do. Let's avoid another hefty compensation sum and let Lambert do what we already know he can - build a team to get into *and compete in* the Premier League.
100% right imo.
Couldn't be more right.
It makes sense and so do Gray's comments. A lot of people are criticising Lambert's approach of bringing in young players but the players he inherited have been more culpable,Clark,Bannan,Ireland,Given ,Agbonlahor ,Holman and previously ,the fans favourites,Hutton and Warnock,plus the non-availability of Makoun ,Dunne and Gardner.Lambert's young signings ,Benteke,Lowton,Westwood ,Bennett and Bowery are now worth more ,a rare thing for a Villa boss. KEA ,an experienced player,is the disappointment.
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We're a work in progress alright. Working towards being a championship side. Lambert is proving to be a very poor manager and I have zero confidence he is ever going to get things right. He is tactically inept and has just lost to a division two side over 2 legs,he doesn't deserve a moments more time
Incidentally weren't these same journos saying Lerner was going to keep McLeish regardless last season
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Ellis got slaughtered by fans for a lot less than what the cretinous Lerner has put us through lately. It seems the fans are nearly as apathetic as the owner.
Bit of revisionism there. Ellis 'a lot less' includes taking the European champions to relegation in 5 years. That passed with an amazing lack of hostility from fans. In my time villa fans as a group have always been apathetic. Not saying we don't care mind, just we'd rather not rock the boat.
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Surely now has to be the time to start the pressure on Lerner!? Can't believe how he's gotten away from vocal detest during games.
If we started the pound signs and chants like the Ellis days!? Surely it's got to be better than no showing our discontent?
Sure we could get pubs signs printed and handed out for Tuesday night.
Lerner quite simply needs to shit or get off the pot
Fin Feds Dad said this bloody months ago. He coaches his own team of kids. Fin Feds Dad for our next manager.
Think it's time for a poll to see who's up for bring the pound signs out?
C'mon has to be dollar signs $$$
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Aston Villa manager Paul Lambert's job is safe even if the club are relegated, it is understood.
Villa lost their Carling Cup semi-final to League Two Bradford on Tuesday and are 17th in the Premier League, one point above the relegation places.
BBC Radio 5 live's Pat Murphy says Villa owner Randy Lerner talked to Lambert after watching the Bradford game live in the USA.
"Lerner is unwilling to seek more managerial upheaval", Murphy said.
Lambert guided Norwich City from League One to the Premier League before leaving to join Villa last summer.
Murphy added: "If the unthinkable happened and Villa were relegated I think Lerner would still stick with Lambert.
Aston Villa's summer signings
"He backed the manager's decision to go for young, hungry players last summer to the tune of £23m and he admires Lambert's conviction.
"They talk regularly each week and I don't think Lerner has wobbled about the manager. Lerner hasn't sacked a Villa manager during a season. He feels it's shooting yourself in the foot. He wants calm decision-making and stability."
Lerner, who has put more than £250m into the club in just over six years - including its purchase - is not due in England in the immediate future.
He is in regular dialogue with Lambert, 43, about possible transfers in during the transfer window but has made it clear to the manager that only a certain amount of money is available.
"Villa have had some frustrations this month seeking some new players but I wouldn't be surprised if Lambert ends up not buying anyone," Murphy said.
"And those he wants to get off the wage bill aren't exactly attracting many enquiries. Lambert won't be buying anyone just for the sake of it."
Villa play Millwall in the FA Cup fourth round on Friday, before entertaining Newcastle, who are one place and one point above them, in the Premier League on Tuesday.
Matt Lowton: 23 (Sheffield United, £3m)
Ron Vlaar: 27 (Feyenoord, £3.2m)
Karim El Ahmadi: 27 (Feyenoord, undisclosed)
Brett Holman: 28 (AZ Alkmaar, free)
Jordan Bowery: 21 (Chesterfield, £500k)
Joe Bennett: 22 (Middlesbrough, undisclosed)
Ashley Westwood: 22 (Crewe, undisclosed)
Christian Benteke: 21 (Genk, £7m)
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@JamesNursey: #AVFC as a club had so much upheaval since O'Neill quit, told no desire to sack Lambert
Lambert's caused more upheaval than anybody else!
Lerner must be the stupidest billionaire on the planet. He deserved to lose millions, the thick fucker.
you wont be saying that when we win the FA cup ;D
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Aston Villa manager Paul Lambert's job is safe even if the club are relegated, it is understood.
Villa lost their Carling Cup semi-final to League Two Bradford on Tuesday and are 17th in the Premier League, one point above the relegation places.
BBC Radio 5 live's Pat Murphy says Villa owner Randy Lerner talked to Lambert after watching the Bradford game live in the USA.
"Lerner is unwilling to seek more managerial upheaval", Murphy said.
Lambert guided Norwich City from League One to the Premier League before leaving to join Villa last summer.
Murphy added: "If the unthinkable happened and Villa were relegated I think Lerner would still stick with Lambert.
Aston Villa's summer signings
"He backed the manager's decision to go for young, hungry players last summer to the tune of £23m and he admires Lambert's conviction.
"They talk regularly each week and I don't think Lerner has wobbled about the manager. Lerner hasn't sacked a Villa manager during a season. He feels it's shooting yourself in the foot. He wants calm decision-making and stability."
Lerner, who has put more than £250m into the club in just over six years - including its purchase - is not due in England in the immediate future.
He is in regular dialogue with Lambert, 43, about possible transfers in during the transfer window but has made it clear to the manager that only a certain amount of money is available.
"Villa have had some frustrations this month seeking some new players but I wouldn't be surprised if Lambert ends up not buying anyone," Murphy said.
"And those he wants to get off the wage bill aren't exactly attracting many enquiries. Lambert won't be buying anyone just for the sake of it."
Villa play Millwall in the FA Cup fourth round on Friday, before entertaining Newcastle, who are one place and one point above them, in the Premier League on Tuesday.
Matt Lowton: 23 (Sheffield United, £3m)
Ron Vlaar: 27 (Feyenoord, £3.2m)
Karim El Ahmadi: 27 (Feyenoord, undisclosed)
Brett Holman: 28 (AZ Alkmaar, free)
Jordan Bowery: 21 (Chesterfield, £500k)
Joe Bennett: 22 (Middlesbrough, undisclosed)
Ashley Westwood: 22 (Crewe, undisclosed)
Christian Benteke: 21 (Genk, £7m)
Well if you have frustrations getting players, you look for others. That's the luxury of our situation we are so fucking shit, that virtually anyone would improve our side.
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Ellis got slaughtered by fans for a lot less than what the cretinous Lerner has put us through lately. It seems the fans are nearly as apathetic as the owner.
Problem is, he's never there.
So he won't give a fuck anyway.
And he's used to angry fans from his ownership of the Brownshits, or whatever they're called.
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Ellis got slaughtered by fans for a lot less than what the cretinous Lerner has put us through lately. It seems the fans are nearly as apathetic as the owner.
Problem is, he's never there.
So he won't give a fuck anyway.
And he's used to angry fans from his ownership of the Brownshits, or whatever they're called.
Was going to add something similar
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Maybe he hasn't been sacked because we won the game. Had Bradford done the double on us things might be different. Then again.
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How can anyone still say he's a good coach ?
Tactically woeful .
With a total lack of any motivation or leadership.
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How can anyone still say he's a good coach ?
Tactically woeful .
With a total lack of any motivation or leadership.
His tactics after Bradford equalised were beyond ridiculous. The man is inept. He hasn't the decency or dignity to resign so he must be sacked. I'm amazed he's still in a job considering how just mind boggling bad he's been this season.
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Maybe he hasn't been sacked because we won the game. Had Bradford done the double on us things might be different. Then again.
If that's a factor in Lambert still being here then Lerner is a bigger idiot than I thought possible. The task in hand last night was to get through, not merely win the game. The win counts for absolutely fuck all.
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What concerns me most with that Beeb article is the statement that we may not get any new players in. WTF is going on. Its like a conspiracy by Lerner and Lambert to get us relegated.
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I really don’t know about Lambert after last night, looked like he just hasn’t a clue. Just have to hope he has enough in him to turn it around, there is a good manager in there somewhere.
He won’t be getting sacked and it seems unlikely we will be signing anyone.
At this rate not only do I think we will be relegated, I think we will finish bottom.
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Playing almost the entire second half with no midfield just summed up Lambert, clueless. Haven't seen that kind of football since school days, defence blasting the ball up to a gaggle of forwards hoping for a bounce of deflection to go your way.
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Playing almost the entire second half with no midfield just summed up Lambert, clueless. Haven't seen that kind of football since school days, defence blasting the ball up to a gaggle of forwards hoping for a bounce of deflection to go your way.
That's exactly what I thought. It was like a football match played by school kids in a playground.
Embarrassing, humiliating stuff. I'd sack him for that reason alone.
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as someone who has always supported Lambert the last 30 minuets last night make it difficult to build a case
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Bitterly disappointed that he hasnt been sacked this morning - i have virtually given up on survival with lambert in charge.
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i dont mind replacing Lambert with someone i want but not someone i dont want :)
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Bitterly disappointed that he hasnt been sacked this morning - i have virtually given up on survival with lambert in charge.
I agree. I know it is difficult to select a replacement that would suit everyone but I think it has got to the point where the act of just removing Lambert itself may stop the decline.
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as someone who has always supported Lambert the last 30 minuets last night make it difficult to build a case
If you read his comments on the OS, they weren't playing to instruction they just lost their discipline and to a certain extent their bottle. It's down to leadership on the pitch. Of course, it's his responsibility to ensure that leadership is in place in the long term but during the course of a game there's not a lot a manager can do about it.
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He's a very lucky man at the moment. There's no other club in the country producing such appalling results that haven't pulled the trigger.
If Mcleish hadn't of happened then Lambert would already be on his bike. I don't think Lerner can afford to sack another manager and the upheaval again.
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as someone who has always supported Lambert the last 30 minuets last night make it difficult to build a case
If you read his comments on the OS, they weren't playing to instruction they just lost their discipline and to a certain extent their bottle. It's down to leadership on the pitch. Of course, it's his responsibility to ensure that leadership is in place in the long term but during the course of a game there's not a lot a manager can do about it.
Not taking off the midfield to add more forwards could have helped the situation.
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whats Kev Mac doing, give him till the end of the season
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whats Kev Mac doing, give him till the end of the season
please tell me you're joking. He inspired us to a 6-0 kicking at Newcastle where we looked every bit as shit as we do now with significantly better players
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Bitterly disappointed that he hasnt been sacked this morning - i have virtually given up on survival with lambert in charge.
I agree. I know it is difficult to select a replacement that would suit everyone but I think it has got to the point where the act of just removing Lambert itself may stop the decline.
Yes , get rid of him and a new man may give us some kind of lift and impetus - the last month has been utterly dreadful and im amazed how he is still in a job .
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whats Kev Mac doing, give him till the end of the season
please tell me you're joking. He inspired us to a 6-0 kicking at Newcastle where we looked every bit as shit as we do now with significantly better players
I dont rate kmac at all but i dont think even he could be as bad as this idiot.
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Bitterly disappointed that he hasnt been sacked this morning - i have virtually given up on survival with lambert in charge.
I agree. I know it is difficult to select a replacement that would suit everyone but I think it has got to the point where the act of just removing Lambert itself may stop the decline.
We're on our fourth manager in four years, which suggests that sacking managers is not necessarily the answer.
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Bitterly disappointed that he hasnt been sacked this morning - i have virtually given up on survival with lambert in charge.
I agree. I know it is difficult to select a replacement that would suit everyone but I think it has got to the point where the act of just removing Lambert itself may stop the decline.
We're on our fourth manager in four years, which suggests that sacking managers is not necessarily the answer.
The answer is getting the right manager and keeping him - lambert is not the right manager - i do like the cut of gus poyet but i doubt he would want to leave brighton for villa which says a lot about where we are right now.
Lerner cant be blamed for choosing lambert as many us wanted him too- but time to admit it was a mistake and cut our losses asap.
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We've only sacked one manager. The other two were out of our control
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Bitterly disappointed that he hasnt been sacked this morning - i have virtually given up on survival with lambert in charge.
I agree. I know it is difficult to select a replacement that would suit everyone but I think it has got to the point where the act of just removing Lambert itself may stop the decline.
We're on our fourth manager in four years, which suggests that sacking managers is not necessarily the answer.
It is when this one is about to take us down. Get rid now.
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as someone who has always supported Lambert the last 30 minuets last night make it difficult to build a case
If you read his comments on the OS, they weren't playing to instruction they just lost their discipline and to a certain extent their bottle. It's down to leadership on the pitch. Of course, it's his responsibility to ensure that leadership is in place in the long term but during the course of a game there's not a lot a manager can do about it.
i've not completly lost it with Lambert,
i actually admire his attacking philosophy, when we were 5 down at Chelsea and still piling forward it was a bit different than playing for the 2 nill defeat when we visited Spurs the season before.
but he was the one who put 5 strikers on,
all in a line waiting for the ball to be pinged toward them, one of the most rediculous things i've ever seen,
if they were not acting to orders then i'l give him that, but he's the manager he has to be able to do something about it during the game when something as ludicrous as what we saw last night going on
thought the first half we were fantastic, Delph was superb, but in the end it was Billy Smarts Lambert has to take some blame for that
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Bitterly disappointed that he hasnt been sacked this morning - i have virtually given up on survival with lambert in charge.
I agree. I know it is difficult to select a replacement that would suit everyone but I think it has got to the point where the act of just removing Lambert itself may stop the decline.
I'm not so sure. Lambert's tactics or coaching ability may be lacking, but it's the calibre of player on the pitch that's the real problem. Any new manager who came in now would still have to play Bennett, Lowton or Lichaj at full-back, Delph, Bannan or Ireland in the middle, Clark at centre-half. Our problems are all coming from the lack of quality and experience in the defence and midfield. Having one or two of these players in a more experienced and talented side would be ok, but we are relying on all these lads, game in game out, and they're just not good enough. We constantly get murdered down the flanks, and we have no screen in front of the back four/five.
In the short-term, we need to sign at least two, and preferably four pros with quality and experience to sort the midfield, central defensive and full-back positions. If we don't, we are heading for the Championship, it's as simple as that.
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He's a very lucky man at the moment. There's no other club in the country producing such appalling results that haven't pulled the trigger.
If Mcleish hadn't of happened then Lambert would already be on his bike. I don't think Lerner can afford to sack another manager and the upheaval again.
Cheaper than being relegated.
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He's a very lucky man at the moment. There's no other club in the country producing such appalling results that haven't pulled the trigger.
Well the likes of Norwich and Newcastle are below us in the form table. And both of them have been knocked out of cups by pretty rubbish teams.
So there's a couple.
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It's not a like for like, to compare the weird world of football management with real-life scenarios.
But we can probably all recall situations when we've worked under managers we've liked.
That makes the job easier (though not necessarily easy). They have to be competent too, of course. No point being good blokes but inept.
Then -and this might be more common- there are situations where we've worked for managers we're unsure about. They might have given us instructions we question initially, but -when we follow those instructions and get results- our faith in them grows.
Equally, if he/she keeps on asking us to do something and the same abject failure occurs time and again, we lose faith in them -and their ability to make key decisions.
That's where this squad of players (who are by no means brilliant) are with Lambert, if the last 8/9 results and performances are anything to go by.
Even when we start a game well (as we did against the Olbiyun and Bradford) if the opposition step it up, we seem to have no response.
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We've only sacked one manager. The other two were out of our control
That's just nit picking, we have changed manager and it hasn't improved us.
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He's a very lucky man at the moment. There's no other club in the country producing such appalling results that haven't pulled the trigger.
Well the likes of Norwich and Newcastle are below us in the form table. And both of them have been knocked out of cups by pretty rubbish teams.
So there's a couple.
Have they suffered club record defeats, record goals conceded, fewest scored knocked out of cup by 4th div club etc etc?
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We've only sacked one manager. The other two were out of our control
That's just nit picking, we have changed manager and it hasn't improved us.
That's also not picking. Sometimes changing a manager improves the team. Look at QPR for instance. Who's to say it wouldn't work with us?
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He's a very lucky man at the moment. There's no other club in the country producing such appalling results that haven't pulled the trigger.
Well the likes of Norwich and Newcastle are below us in the form table. And both of them have been knocked out of cups by pretty rubbish teams.
So there's a couple.
They're both above us in the league table and neither have a -25 goal difference or have conceded the most goals in the division or have scored the second fewest or have become the laughing stock of English football.
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Norwich were knocked out of the cup by far worse than a fourth division team.
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Playing almost the entire second half with no midfield just summed up Lambert, clueless. Haven't seen that kind of football since school days, defence blasting the ball up to a gaggle of forwards hoping for a bounce of deflection to go your way.
That's exactly what I thought. It was like a football match played by school kids in a playground.
Embarrassing, humiliating stuff. I'd sack him for that reason alone.
That's what tipped me over the edge, that he was willing to abandon playing decent football so quickly just upset me far too much.
If he wanted to go all out gung-ho then move nzog and bannan/gabby out wide, push bennett and lowton into wing back positions and ask delph and ireland to sit a little deeper and work the ball wide, then get behind them and throw crosses in for Benteke and Bent/Weimann to get on the end of. That worked in both legs, we didn't take the chances but we were threatening.
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There's an article that's gone up on the Beeb site this afternoon saying his job is safe even if (when) we get relegated. Fucking hell.
It's only going by the words of Pat Murphy, but I can feel the heart palpitations going already.
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We've only sacked one manager. The other two were out of our control
That's just nit picking, we have changed manager and it hasn't improved us.
So we should just stick with a manager who is utterly useless just because the previous ones didnt work out either, even though it was out of our control bar McLeish
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He's a very lucky man at the moment. There's no other club in the country producing such appalling results that haven't pulled the trigger.
Well the likes of Norwich and Newcastle are below us in the form table. And both of them have been knocked out of cups by pretty rubbish teams.
So there's a couple.
Are you backing lambert then dave ?
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He's a very lucky man at the moment. There's no other club in the country producing such appalling results that haven't pulled the trigger.
Well the likes of Norwich and Newcastle are below us in the form table. And both of them have been knocked out of cups by pretty rubbish teams.
So there's a couple.
They're both above us in the league table and neither have a -25 goal difference or have conceded the most goals in the division or have scored the second fewest or have become the laughing stock of English football.
*sigh*
It was more a wry attempt to highlight that Norwich had a really shit result, i.e losing to us. Rather than an impassioned defence of Lambert.
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We've only sacked one manager. The other two were out of our control
That's not true - we had to pay Houllier off. He wanted to stay on.
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Paul Lambert's miserable season at the helm of Aston Villa can't ever get bad enough to earn him the sack, according to a report.
The Villa boss finds his side mired in a relegation scrap, and suffered the uncomfortable experience of being dumped out of the League Cup by minnows Bradford.
But the Press Association claim that Villa owner Randy Lerner is backing Lambert, even if he takes the club down into the Championship.
The PA report states: Paul Lambert's long-term future as Aston Villa manager is assured despite their shock Capital One Cup semi-final exit against Bradford last night, Press Association Sport understands.
Lambert retains the faith of Villa owner Randy Lerner even though the midlands club are also involved in a Barclays Premier League relegation battle.
It is believed Lambert would still stay in charge even if Villa drop down to the Championship with Lerner believing he would be the right man to take them back up after his double promotion exploits at Norwich.
Villa suffered a shock 4-3 aggregate reversal against npower League Two outfit Bradford, who became the first fourth-tier club to reach the final of the competition for 51 years.
Villa now face another tricky tie at Millwall in the FA Cup on Friday before next Tuesday's crucial home Premier League encounter with fellow strugglers Newcastle.
But Lerner remains convinced Lambert is the man to take Villa forward and is aware of the need to keep calm and not overreact.
The American knew it would be a rollercoaster season in what is seen as a long rebuilding job for Lambert after the difficult times under Gerard Houllier and Alex McLeish.
Lerner was happy for Lambert to put faith in young players and the Bradford setback will also not alter Villa's attitude towards the current transfer window.
Lambert has only limited resources available and has said he will not sign players for the sake of it.
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He's a very lucky man at the moment. There's no other club in the country producing such appalling results that haven't pulled the trigger.
Well the likes of Norwich and Newcastle are below us in the form table. And both of them have been knocked out of cups by pretty rubbish teams.
So there's a couple.
Are you backing lambert then dave ?
i'd still rather Lambert than RDM or Hughes
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Norwich were knocked out of the cup by far worse than a fourth division team.
They beat us over two legs. That's unforgivable and much worse than Norwich's one off loss.
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There's an article that's gone up on the Beeb site this afternoon saying his job is safe even if (when) we get relegated. Fucking hell.
It's only going by the words of Pat Murphy, but I can feel the heart palpitations going already.
Weren't they coming out with the same rubbish when McLeish was here. I just don't know how they would be privy to that information
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It's a total red herring that sticking with the manager works. Sticking with the right manager works. Sticking with the wrong manager is asking for trouble.
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Norwich were knocked out of the cup by far worse than a fourth division team.
They beat us over two legs. That's unforgivable and much worse than Norwich's one off loss.
I think you missed the mischievous humour in Dave's post there old chap
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Norwich were knocked out of the cup by far worse than a fourth division team.
They beat us over two legs. That's unforgivable and much worse than Norwich's one off loss.
I think you missed the mischievous humour in Dave's post there old chap
Ha!
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It's a total red herring that sticking with the manager works. Sticking with the right manager works. Sticking with the wrong manager is asking for trouble.
Exactly hilts!
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It's a total red herring that sticking with the manager works. Sticking with the right manager works. Sticking with the wrong manager is asking for trouble.
Exactly hilts!
Lambert's previous record suggests he is, or at least could be, the right manager. We're going through a tough time at the moment but if we're always so short term in our outlook we'll never make any progress.
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He's a very lucky man at the moment. There's no other club in the country producing such appalling results that haven't pulled the trigger.
Well the likes of Norwich and Newcastle are below us in the form table. And both of them have been knocked out of cups by pretty rubbish teams.
So there's a couple.
This is the thing for me.
There seems to be a host of posters on here falling over themselves to tell us how we're doomed to relegation. I'm not saying things are acceptable at all, but we're outside the bottom three right now and have 15 games left to stay there/improve to a truely safe position. We have the benefit of Dunne to come back to our most problematic area and still time to sign a player or two.
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I wonder if the reason he hasn't been sacked is to do with Lerner's refusal to pay anymore compensation? Football managers in the past has the decency and dignity to resign when things went tits up. Now they stick around waiting to be sacked so they can suck every last penny out of the club. Modern day managers are every bit as unlikable as the modern day players are.
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yep people have a blind spot with Lambert. Any of the previous encumbents with the same results would be under real pressure long before now. The thought of us doing a Blackburn and sticking with a complete joke to the end of the season and next is beyond embarrassing.
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You know I wish I could care as little about Villa as our owner does, but unfortunately like everyone on here I am feeling so miserable at our decline. It isn't just last night, it's the past 3 years leading to all of this. If we had an owner with an ounce of sense he would see that if he wants to build a young team, you still need to invest or that young team will never come to fruition. Also if a young player isn't good enough you have to realise that and move on, which seems to be a problem at Villa.
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yep people have a blind spot with Lambert. Any of the previous encumbents with the same results would be under real pressure long before now. The thought of us doing a Blackburn and sticking with a complete joke to the end of the season and next is beyond embarrassing.
Aint that the truth- embarrassing in the extreme- ive had fans of other clubs at work pleading for villa to keep lambert as they are loving the mess hes making of our club.
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I wonder if the reason he hasn't been sacked is to do with Lerner's refusal to pay anymore compensation?
It could just as easily be that they see mitigating cirumstances to the recent performances and have faith in him and the long term plan to nurture youth while riding ourselves of expensive wasters.
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It's a total red herring that sticking with the manager works. Sticking with the right manager works. Sticking with the wrong manager is asking for trouble.
Exactly hilts!
Lambert's previous record suggests he is, or at least could be, the right manager. We're going through a tough time at the moment but if we're always so short term in our outlook we'll never make any progress.
His previous record is mainly based around joining a club with the potential to do well and encouraging them to go for it, which he did very well with, but right now our momentum is going the other way and he doesn't seem to have the tactical knowledge to reverse that trend. I said quite early in this thread that the relevance of the chelsea result lay entirely in our response to it. That response has been to fall apart in the league and go out of the cup, in the semi final, to a league 2 side over 2 legs. We all know a couple of extra players would help, and I'm firmly of the opinion that he would spend money reasonably well but I've lost the trust in him knowing how to respond to in game events, too often in this run his changes have weakened us.
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There seems to be a host of posters on here falling over themselves to tell us how we're doomed to relegation. I'm not saying things are acceptable at all, but we're outside the bottom three right now and have 15 games left to stay there/improve to a truely safe position. We have the benefit of Dunne to come back to our most problematic area and still time to sign a player or two.
Dunne alone isn't going to save this club from going down, even assuming he plays like the Dunne of three years ago which is a huge assumption. The players took a hammer blow to their almost non-existent confidence last night and I wouldn't like to say where out next league win is going to come from.
You may be right, we may stay up by virtue of three clubs doing even worse than we do but our form over the last year has been so bad that we'll be relying on luck for that to happen.
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There seems to be a host of posters on here falling over themselves to tell us how we're doomed to relegation. I'm not saying things are acceptable at all, but we're outside the bottom three right now and have 15 games left to stay there/improve to a truely safe position. We have the benefit of Dunne to come back to our most problematic area and still time to sign a player or two.
Dunne alone isn't going to save this club from going down, even assuming he plays like the Dunne of three years ago which is a huge assumption. The players took a hammer blow to their almost non-existent confidence last night and I wouldn't like to say where out next league win is going to come from.
You may be right, we may stay up by virtue of three clubs doing even worse than we do but our form over the last year has been so bad that we'll be relying on luck for that to happen.
I agree it'll take more than Dunne, but for me he, or a player like him, would be a big piece of the solution.
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The clubs around us are at least trying to address their deficiencies, we are not doing anything of the sort.
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If we're relying on Dunne, who's been out for a better part of a year, and frankly, looked ridiculously unfit and off the pace (even for him) for a year or so before that, we're truly screwed.
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I wonder if the reason he hasn't been sacked is to do with Lerner's refusal to pay anymore compensation?
It could just as easily be that they see mitigating cirumstances to the recent performances and have faith in him and the long term plan to nurture youth while riding ourselves of expensive wasters.
Rid the squad of expensive wasters and replace them with cheap lower league fodder who will take the club down to the championship.
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yep people have a blind spot with Lambert. Any of the previous encumbents with the same results would be under real pressure long before now. The thought of us doing a Blackburn and sticking with a complete joke to the end of the season and next is beyond embarrassing.
It's like a wasp who flies into a window, not learning from his mistake he buzzes around for a few seconds then straight back into the glass. The fact that we're on our fourth manager in four seasons would suggest that the short term approach probably isn't the best way. At some point we're going to have to try doing things differently.
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This is what I don't understand IF he takes us down ,how exactly is he suddenly going to turn results around in the championship bearing in mind 1) We just got beat by a 4th division team and 2) we will lose our best players.
The momentum now is downwards and break neck speed that he is seemingly unable to stop so I just don't get it. Infact can anyone name a manager that has taken a club down ( after being in charge the whole season ) and successfully brought them back up ?
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The clubs around us are at least trying to address their deficiencies, we are not doing anything of the sort.
I personally think we're trying to address it also.
We've been notoriously tight lipped about transfers since Randy came in, so the lack of 'links' does not concern me. That's not to say how successful we will be, or how much is in the kitty, but I simply do not believe that they are 'not doing anything'.
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The clubs around us are at least trying to address their deficiencies, we are not doing anything of the sort.
I personally think we're trying to address it also.
We've been notoriously tight lipped about transfers since Randy came in, so the lack of 'links' does not concern me. That's not to say how successful we will be, or how much is in the kitty, but I simply do not believe that they are 'not doing anything'.
Unless Lerner is so convinced that we're going down no matter what and thinks that there's no point investing for new players.
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yep people have a blind spot with Lambert. Any of the previous encumbents with the same results would be under real pressure long before now. The thought of us doing a Blackburn and sticking with a complete joke to the end of the season and next is beyond embarrassing.
It's like a wasp who flies into a window, not learning from his mistake he buzzes around for a few seconds then straight back into the glass. The fact that we're on our fourth manager in four seasons would suggest that the short term approach probably isn't the best way. At some point we're going to have to try doing things differently.
Sticking with a manager who has presided over some of the most humiliating results in our entire history is fucking suicide.
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I wonder if the reason he hasn't been sacked is to do with Lerner's refusal to pay anymore compensation?
It could just as easily be that they see mitigating cirumstances to the recent performances and have faith in him and the long term plan to nurture youth while riding ourselves of expensive wasters.
Rid the squad of expensive wasters and replace them with cheap lower league fodder who will take the club down to the championship.
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I actually think he's bought well on the whole and our issue is mainly Clark and KEA, who admittedly is a Lambert signing
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The old saying a fool and his money- lerner and lambert are well suited - both clueless !
Its us fans who will be left picking up the pieces of their mess for years after theyve both gone.
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I wonder if the reason he hasn't been sacked is to do with Lerner's refusal to pay anymore compensation?
It could just as easily be that they see mitigating cirumstances to the recent performances and have faith in him and the long term plan to nurture youth while riding ourselves of expensive wasters.
Rid the squad of expensive wasters and replace them with cheap lower league fodder who will take the club down to the championship.
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I actually think he's bought well on the whole and our issue is mainly Clark and KEA, who admittedly is a Lambert signing
Bought well? Ha!
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yep people have a blind spot with Lambert. Any of the previous encumbents with the same results would be under real pressure long before now. The thought of us doing a Blackburn and sticking with a complete joke to the end of the season and next is beyond embarrassing.
It's like a wasp who flies into a window, not learning from his mistake he buzzes around for a few seconds then straight back into the glass. The fact that we're on our fourth manager in four seasons would suggest that the short term approach probably isn't the best way. At some point we're going to have to try doing things differently.
I realise its a bit groundhog day Chris, in thats it's following the pattern of the last two managers, but the factors are different imo. Both TSM and Houllier weren't wanted by the fans to start off with, and so got precious little time or patience. Lambert was wanted and imo has been given plenty of patience and good will but in the end what you see on the pitch has turned the fans. No-one's falling over themselves to get him out the door, but he's plainly out of his depth both with his tactics and organisation. He also makes TSM look charismatic, so i'm not surprised he can't get the players to work for him. It's another disasterous appointment and IMO the damage to stability caused by yet another face arriving is far outweighed by the damage just blindling sticking with him because we've overdone our quota of managers in the last 5 years
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That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I actually think he's bought well on the whole and our issue is mainly Clark and KEA, who admittedly is a Lambert signing
So we've bought well and we've got a good manager - it's a wonder why we're not flying up the table and through to the League Cup final.
Please excuse my sarcasm but the vast majority of our results and performances suggest the exact opposite of what you appear to believe.
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That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I actually think he's bought well on the whole and our issue is mainly Clark and KEA, who admittedly is a Lambert signing
So we've bought well and we've got a good manager - it's a wonder why we're not flying up the table and through to the League Cup final.
Please excuse my sarcasm but the vast majority of our results and performances suggest the exact opposite of what you appear to believe.
The only decent player he's bought is Benteke, and he's been overused so far. The rest have been pants, and I include Westwood and Lowton in that. Some fans think they're the dog's bollocks for some reason. I just see them losing possession every time they play. Lambert's a complete unmitigated disaster for Aston Villa, yet there's still some out there that think he's doing okay.
It's mind boggling!
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yep people have a blind spot with Lambert. Any of the previous encumbents with the same results would be under real pressure long before now. The thought of us doing a Blackburn and sticking with a complete joke to the end of the season and next is beyond embarrassing.
It's like a wasp who flies into a window, not learning from his mistake he buzzes around for a few seconds then straight back into the glass. The fact that we're on our fourth manager in four seasons would suggest that the short term approach probably isn't the best way. At some point we're going to have to try doing things differently.
Chris I'm all for a longer term approach. But something has radically gone wrong. I think most of us thought we could see the shoots of progress after Liverpool and thought that this is really going in the right direction. Even after Chelsea, as humbling as it was, that we could maybe put it aside and we'd come back with at least some discipline and structure against Spurs. It never happened. It just got progressively worse and there is seemingly no longer a sign of the earlier progress or that in the immediate term of it getting better. I accept that this job was tough to begin with, and that it is a much longer term project beyond one season. But the manager needs to at least nail down the basics and it appears with every game, the basics is the one thing that is eluding us. Ignore any flair or creativity as right now they are luxuries. If Lambert this season just got us defending with any degree of discipline we'd have 8-10 more points and be in the cup final. Those are the most worrying things, and when you think it should be getting better, even just a little bit, it isn't. Basics are the things other clubs key in on when scouting us, and Bradford knew, and Millwall and Newcastle know to get set pieces into the box because inevitably we'll succumb. That's the kind of thing that leads to relegation.
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The old saying a fool and his money
A fool and his money are soon partying?
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Westwood has demonstrably not been pants, Lowton started well but is suffering from the same confidence-deficiency as the rest of the team and looks lost, Benteke's obviously a real player. Joe Bennett, however, looks totally out of his depth at the minute, KEA started solidly but has gone completely off the boil, Vlaar's never really got started and I'm sorry, Jordan Bowery just looks like a League 2 striker.
I think Lambert has done enough in the past to show that he has genuine managerial qualities - I just think that we're totally the wrong fit, not least because our chairman is so utterly clueless.
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Westwood has demonstrably not been pants, Lowton started well but is suffering from the same confidence-deficiency as the rest of the team and looks lost, Benteke's obviously a real player. Joe Bennett, however, looks totally out of his depth at the minute, KEA started solidly but has gone completely off the boil, Vlaar's never really got started and I'm sorry, Jordan Bowery just looks like a League 2 striker.
I think Lambert has done enough in the past to show that he has genuine managerial qualities - I just think that we're totally the wrong fit, not least because our chairman is so utterly clueless.
To give you your due Monty, you weren't clamouring for Lambert in the first place.
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That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I actually think he's bought well on the whole and our issue is mainly Clark and KEA, who admittedly is a Lambert signing
So we've bought well and we've got a good manager - it's a wonder why we're not flying up the table and through to the League Cup final.
Please excuse my sarcasm but the vast majority of our results and performances suggest the exact opposite of what you appear to believe.
As I see it there was an initial period of both manager and new players settling in, where results were poor, but with signs of what we were trying to do. We then went on a good 6 game unbeaten run that culminated in those impressive away wins at Norwich and Anfield. Was anyone complaining then?
That was only a month ago. But what happened next was the tonking at Chelsea that has destroyed the team's confidence and started a snow ball effect. This is where the experiences players are needed and ours have been injured/out of the side/just plain useless. Whatever I may or may not think of our manager, he should have done something to arrest this, but hasn't been able to.
So what we're lacking is experience on the pitch and confidence. Not all his signings have been good and he's far from blameless for the terrible sequence of results we've endured.
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We badly lack leadership and quality on all levels. However if you're talking about the first team, then a left back, centre half and defensive centre mid would sort us out straight away pretty much.
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Westwood has demonstrably not been pants, Lowton started well but is suffering from the same confidence-deficiency as the rest of the team and looks lost, Benteke's obviously a real player. Joe Bennett, however, looks totally out of his depth at the minute, KEA started solidly but has gone completely off the boil, Vlaar's never really got started and I'm sorry, Jordan Bowery just looks like a League 2 striker.
I think Lambert has done enough in the past to show that he has genuine managerial qualities - I just think that we're totally the wrong fit, not least because our chairman is so utterly clueless.
To give you your due Monty, you weren't clamouring for Lambert in the first place.
I initially thought he was worse than he is. I thought he was just a long-ball Britisher merchant, which he isn't. I just now think he's the wrong man at the wrong time.
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Westwood has demonstrably not been pants, Lowton started well but is suffering from the same confidence-deficiency as the rest of the team and looks lost, Benteke's obviously a real player. Joe Bennett, however, looks totally out of his depth at the minute, KEA started solidly but has gone completely off the boil, Vlaar's never really got started and I'm sorry, Jordan Bowery just looks like a League 2 striker.
I think Lambert has done enough in the past to show that he has genuine managerial qualities - I just think that we're totally the wrong fit, not least because our chairman is so utterly clueless.
He's done nothing at Villa to convince me that he's a good manager. He's wasted £20m+ on a bunch of no hopers, and Benteke. No more excuses for the man, he has to be sacked.
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The clubs around us are at least trying to address their deficiencies, we are not doing anything of the sort.
I personally think we're trying to address it also.
We've been notoriously tight lipped about transfers since Randy came in, so the lack of 'links' does not concern me. That's not to say how successful we will be, or how much is in the kitty, but I simply do not believe that they are 'not doing anything'.
Yep there is no way we're doing nothing but bloody hell lets get it moving cos were not going to Wembley now and we're dropping points every game. A couple of good signings would give the whole place a lift and hopefully spur some sort of revival from this awful situation we're now in.
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Lambert's a complete unmitigated disaster for Aston Villa, yet there's still some out there that think he's doing okay.
It's mind boggling!
There is a middle ground you know. And in that middle ground are people who aren't happy with what's going on, but understand the need to change things at the club, how injuries have affected us and have patience to ride this season out without thinking it means automatic relegation.
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A major problem is that he pinned a lot on that game last night, he'd said in several interviews that would be the springboard to our season. Well what now? what is his solution to get us out of this? There doesn't appear to be one at the moment and our team certainly doesn't have the bottle to lead itself.
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I initially thought he was worse than he is. I thought he was just a long-ball Britisher merchant, which he isn't. I just now think he's the wrong man at the wrong time.
I know you disagree but I think that's still a significant part of what he is. It's been noticeable this season in games where things have gone wrong that we've very quickly resorted to kick and rush.
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He's a very lucky man at the moment. There's no other club in the country producing such appalling results that haven't pulled the trigger.
Well the likes of Norwich and Newcastle are below us in the form table. And both of them have been knocked out of cups by pretty rubbish teams.
So there's a couple.
Also below us Reading and Wigan + getting to the League Cup semi final wasn't exactly a walk in the park.
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I initially thought he was worse than he is. I thought he was just a long-ball Britisher merchant, which he isn't. I just now think he's the wrong man at the wrong time.
I know you disagree but I think that's still a significant part of what he is. It's been noticeable this season in games where things have gone wrong that we've very quickly resorted to kick and rush.
Well, I don't entirely disagree. He has that in his locker, and he likes the big target man up front, but he said after the game yesterday 'we don't have the players to play long balls', so he's no Pulis or Allardyce. What it does suggest, though, is the lack of a structured plan: what impressed me so much about Solskjaer was that he clearly pays attention to detail in passing-and-moving training, in the same way that Martinez and Rodgers do (taking their cue from the Barca style), whereas I'm not sure Lambert would be doing anything like that - it would probably be more vague and emotional, you know, 'get it down and play it lads', and obviously these young players, with no plan or structure, resort to the hoof to the big man almost instinctively.
Lambert's statement yesterday suggests, along with the substitutions, that he's got no control really over the style beyond emotional preferences. I'd actually rather an Allardycean approach, because at least then the plan is definite and organised.
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I initially thought he was worse than he is. I thought he was just a long-ball Britisher merchant, which he isn't. I just now think he's the wrong man at the wrong time.
I know you disagree but I think that's still a significant part of what he is. It's been noticeable this season in games where things have gone wrong that we've very quickly resorted to kick and rush.
I think that's a symptom of lack of confidence where the midfield isn;t showing for the ball, meaning the defenders have no option but to punt it long.
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Bought well? Ha!
Lets look at the current 'values' of the players:
Benteke would be the main profit as we'd get at least 15m after signing him for around 9m
Lowton would go for at least 3-4m after costing around 1m
Westwood would go for at least 5-6m after costing around 3m
The others we'd break even in my opinion.
12m profit after 6months isn't bad at all.
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He bought well on a player by player basis but poorly in the sense that he failed to fill key positions and didn't identify the need for big personalities/leadership. So those two views are not mutually exclusive IMO.
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He bought well on a player by player basis but poorly in the sense that he failed to fill key positions and didn't identify the need for big personalities/leadership. So those two views are not mutually exclusive IMO.
I think that's fair, in hindsight.
I also think he was pinning a lot on El Ahmadi being a big player for us and replacing Stan, which clearly hasn't happened.
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He bought well on a player by player basis but poorly in the sense that he failed to fill key positions and didn't identify the need for big personalities/leadership. So those two views are not mutually exclusive IMO.
I think that's fair, in hindsight.
I also think he was pinning a lot on El Ahmadi being a big player for us and replacing Stan, which clearly hasn't happened.
That's his biggest transfer blunder, IMO.
I wouldn't write off KEA improving and turning out to be a good player/signing, but we needed someone to hit the ground running in that position.
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I nearly crashed my car this morning when I heard his interview saying that we were playing long balls when we don't have the players to do so. Is he not the Manager for God's sake? Give them instructions not to do it then!
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Safe job (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21158105)
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I initially thought he was worse than he is. I thought he was just a long-ball Britisher merchant, which he isn't. I just now think he's the wrong man at the wrong time.
I know you disagree but I think that's still a significant part of what he is. It's been noticeable this season in games where things have gone wrong that we've very quickly resorted to kick and rush.
I don't buy that Hilts, I think they default to kick and rush. It's down to the character of the players.
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Matt kendrick has tweeted that Vlaar is doing the pre match press stuff tomorrow instead of PL. he asks says he thinks the reason is "cause PL probably doesn't fancy having to answer questions right now"
If that's true that's truely shocking! Manager in hiding! After his bizarre subs last night, his air of desperation and now this, I'd say he's lost the plot!
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Chairman M.I.A
Manager in hiding
My club deserves better leadership than this.
Lerner sell up and take your yes man Lambert with you.
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Matt kendrick has tweeted that Vlaar is doing the pre match press stuff tomorrow instead of PL. he asks says he thinks the reason is "cause PL probably doesn't fancy having to answer questions right now"
If that's true that's truely shocking! Manager in hiding! After his bizarre subs last night, his air of desperation and now this, I'd say he's lost the plot!
If that is so he is nothing short of a disgrace.
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I voted "out" and it pains me to do so because I genuinely like him, I also think he can turn it around eventually but I just think something has to change. If he does stay, I really hope he turns it around as there'll be no-one happier than me.
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Safe job (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21158105)
Seems to be pat murphys opinion and nothing quoted or confirmed as such in that report.
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One of the lads in the office sent me that link with the email title LMAObert, whch I thought was unkind.
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If you inherit a young team, with no personalities and or leadership and spend your transfer budget on some more young players with no leadership what do you think the final outcome will be?
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I'm voting "in". He needs to win against Newcastle, though. Which should be possible based on our first-half display against W.B.A.
If he goes, I'm not convinced that the board will be able to replace him with someone better equipped to keep us up this season.
I think the best scenario possible for us now is to keep Lambert; bring in one or two experienced central midfielders and an experienced central defender. Possibly also bring in a new coach to help on the defensive coaching even if we're in the middle of a season. I'm not sure if there is much of a chance of that happening, though.
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If you buy Championship players - you will get the Championship. What worries me is that the Bradford keeper was on the radio today saying how they had concentrated on our weakness of defending set pieces - a 4th Division outfit can work that out so what fecking chance have we got of survival if this manager and his coaches can`t sort it out - Staunton and Teale offered similar sentiments.
Last night was shambolic - his tactics were shocking. I said at the time it was like playground football and my sentiments have been echoed by many today.
Why the hell have we not scoured the League and Europe to bring at least 2 solid experienced playesr to lead this team?
Is it Lerner not playing ball or is Lambert less able than we all thought?
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I don't buy that Hilts, I think they default to kick and rush. It's down to the character of the players.
Perhaps but it appeared to be his 'go to' tactic last night after we went behind. I don't think that was down to the players.
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He must stay.
If I have to suffer, he can.
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I remember reading a part in Paul Merson's book where he said something along the lines of "you're splashing the cash a bit aren't you" to Gregory to which his response was "well if I don't the next guy will". He then went on to have a slight dig at Gregory for his shortsighted view and said Wenger was completely the opposite and ran his club like he was going to be there all his life.
Whatever happens this season I think sticking by the manager for a sustained period is the way to go and judging by his reluctance to sign players for the sake of it I hope this is what they've expressed to him.
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I think it is essential that Clark is taken out of the firing line for his own sake, he looks rock bottom mentally. The thing is though, who on earth is there to come in?
I have still not got over the sight of 4 strikers continually stood motionless within the same 10yard surface area. I have never ever seen that in a professional game. There is only one person responsible for this, and that is the manager. Thing is, if you were a player would you not just move out there give some option?!?! I would rather have Carruthers on one wing and N'Zog on the others, just to make things happen.
Whether you have cash to spend or you don't, you surely have some formation in mind and you "shoe horn" players there. This is basic yet is AWOL
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Westwood has demonstrably not been pants, Lowton started well but is suffering from the same confidence-deficiency as the rest of the team and looks lost, Benteke's obviously a real player. Joe Bennett, however, looks totally out of his depth at the minute, KEA started solidly but has gone completely off the boil, Vlaar's never really got started and I'm sorry, Jordan Bowery just looks like a League 2 striker.
I think Lambert has done enough in the past to show that he has genuine managerial qualities - I just think that we're totally the wrong fit, not least because our chairman is so utterly clueless.
He's done nothing at Villa to convince me that he's a good manager. He's wasted £20m+ on a bunch of no hopers, and Benteke. No more excuses for the man, he has to be sacked.
So £13 million on 7 players. Of whom most would agree the jury is still out on, Vlaar, lowton, Westwood. Bennett may not make it at this level, Guzan good, KEA has disappointed, but we would probably get our money back if he doesn't settle in. Bowery, hasn't had long enough for anyone to judge fairly.
Not too bad and better record in the market than any of our past few managers going back to Sir Graham pt 2. Which says a lot.
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Westwood has demonstrably not been pants, Lowton started well but is suffering from the same confidence-deficiency as the rest of the team and looks lost, Benteke's obviously a real player. Joe Bennett, however, looks totally out of his depth at the minute, KEA started solidly but has gone completely off the boil, Vlaar's never really got started and I'm sorry, Jordan Bowery just looks like a League 2 striker.
I think Lambert has done enough in the past to show that he has genuine managerial qualities - I just think that we're totally the wrong fit, not least because our chairman is so utterly clueless.
He's done nothing at Villa to convince me that he's a good manager. He's wasted £20m+ on a bunch of no hopers, and Benteke. No more excuses for the man, he has to be sacked.
So £13 million on 7 players. Of whom most would agree the jury is still out on, Vlaar, lowton, Westwood. Bennett may not make it at this level, Guzan good, KEA has disappointed, but we would probably get our money back if he doesn't settle in. Bowery, hasn't had long enough for anyone to judge fairly.
Not too bad and better record in the market than any of our past few managers going back to Sir Graham pt 2. Which says a lot.
I think the jury's verdict is in. They're not good enough. How long do you give them? Till we're relegated?
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Westwood has demonstrably not been pants, Lowton started well but is suffering from the same confidence-deficiency as the rest of the team and looks lost, Benteke's obviously a real player. Joe Bennett, however, looks totally out of his depth at the minute, KEA started solidly but has gone completely off the boil, Vlaar's never really got started and I'm sorry, Jordan Bowery just looks like a League 2 striker.
I think Lambert has done enough in the past to show that he has genuine managerial qualities - I just think that we're totally the wrong fit, not least because our chairman is so utterly clueless.
He's done nothing at Villa to convince me that he's a good manager. He's wasted £20m+ on a bunch of no hopers, and Benteke. No more excuses for the man, he has to be sacked.
So £13 million on 7 players. Of whom most would agree the jury is still out on, Vlaar, lowton, Westwood. Bennett may not make it at this level, Guzan good, KEA has disappointed, but we would probably get our money back if he doesn't settle in. Bowery, hasn't had long enough for anyone to judge fairly.
Not too bad and better record in the market than any of our past few managers going back to Sir Graham pt 2. Which says a lot.
I think the jury's verdict is in. They're not good enough. How long do you give them? Till we're relegated?
Ok, Saunders - who is our best right back, Hutton or Lowton? Centre mid, who is our best one? Best centre forward at the moment? Best centre half? Best keeper?
Truth is he spent well in the remit of the number of players we needed. The issue is that the players already here are shiny shite, and Lambert didn't factor that it. Put Dunne and Petrov in from game 1 this season I reckon we are 5-6 points better off. The players he signed are good players, we just need 2-3 shepherds to lead them through for a couple of seasons.
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Well, I guess I'm judging our signings based on the financial realities we are working in. Check out the transfer thread, and it's full of suggestions of the players we should sign, and they are the same players Liverpool and spurs are after.
Westwood has stepped up 3 divisions and not looked too bad. Is it the level of performance I would like to see? Or have got used to since I started going down with my dad in 86-87? No. Do I think he's looked good for where he came from and how much he cost? Yes.
I wish we wernt having to buy players from Crewe, but I can see that we do. I'm judging the transfers accordingly. Are they good enough to keep us in the league? We'll see, but moaning about them isn't going to make anything any better.
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I think Westwood will definitely be good enough, Lowton will be but needs a break.
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I also think that Lambert for the time being needs to overcome his stubbornness and we need Warnock and Bent in the team.
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Lowton is a good player, but he is desperate for a break. Warnock and Hutton should be used for this purpose.
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Lowton is a good player, but he is desperate for a break. Warnock and Hutton should be used for this purpose.
Too late, he's already alienated those two players. They may have been crap but unless they've been absolutely wankers behind scenes then their treatment has been pretty poor.
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Lowton is a good player, but he is desperate for a break. Warnock and Hutton should be used for this purpose.
Too late, he's already alienated those two players. They may have been crap but unless they've been absolutely wankers behind scenes then their treatment has been pretty poor.
I think it is one of his biggest failings for me is handling of senior players here. Bent, Hutton and Warnock I think he thought he would be able to sell for a couple of million and about 12 million and use the money, and he is now lumbered with them. Warnock, as shit as he is, is probably our best left back still, and would probably do quite well in a 4-4-2 with Bennett in front of him down the left.
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Lowton and Bennett, in my opinion, look really good going forward.
So, why do they look like they're afraid to go forward and look like they'll get a bollocking if they do. So many times last night it was crying out for them to go 10/20 yards more forward when we had the ball. It would've opened Brsdford up so much. Would've made the world if difference in the first half when we had so much possession. Bradford only had one forward which our two centre backs should (!!!!!!!) have coped with.
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Warnock, Bent and Hutton should be in the team at the moment. I don't care about previous performance, but Lowton needs a break, Bennett shouldn't be starting all the time and Bent is a proven goal scorer.
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Interestingly, the Bradford fans can see what's wrong..
http://www.claretandbanter.co.uk/threads/32878-Lambert-s-Foolball-Manager-Tactics
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Warnock, Bent and Hutton should be in the team at the moment. I don't care about previous performance, but Lowton needs a break, Bennett shouldn't be starting all the time and Bent is a proven goal scorer.
I disagree about Bennett. I think he could benefit from playing leftie field in a 4-4-2.
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Lowton and Bennett, in my opinion, look really good going forward.
So, why do they look like they're afraid to go forward and look like they'll get a bollocking if they do. So many times last night it was crying out for them to go 10/20 yards more forward when we had the ball. It would've opened Brsdford up so much. Would've made the world if difference in the first half when we had so much possession. Bradford only had one forward which our two centre backs should (!!!!!!!) have coped with.
It's because when they do and they/someone inevitably loses the ball there are great big gaping holes behind them that the opposition uses to tear us apart - Chelsea being the most obvious example. If we could keep the ball a bit better and/or the centre halves and central midfield were good/fit enough to cover for them then I'm sure they would feel much more confident to push forward. At the moment they've got an impossible task.
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Warnock, Bent and Hutton should be in the team at the moment. I don't care about previous performance, but Lowton needs a break, Bennett shouldn't be starting all the time and Bent is a proven goal scorer.
I disagree about Bennett. I think he could benefit from playing leftie field in a 4-4-2.
I always thought the same about Jlloyd Samuel. Good skill, dribbling and crossing ability but couldn't defend for toffee.
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Warnock, Bent and Hutton should be in the team at the moment. I don't care about previous performance, but Lowton needs a break, Bennett shouldn't be starting all the time and Bent is a proven goal scorer.
I disagree about Bennett. I think he could benefit from playing leftie field in a 4-4-2.
I thought the same about Stevens. They both look ok going forward with no presure on them.
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I don't think Stevens will ever make it, I don't think much of him at all.
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I don't think Stevens will ever make it, I don't think much of him at all.
He's not alone in this squad.
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Well no sadly that's true.
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I don't think Stevens will ever make it, I don't think much of him at all.
Agreed. He'll settle in the 3rd division eventually.
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I don't think Stevens will ever make it, I don't think much of him at all.
Agreed. He'll settle in the 3rd division eventually.
He might as well stay with us then
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If you have full backs that bomb forward you need rock solid centre backs. That's why I think one good defender would make a huge difference up the pitch.
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Asking two inexperienced kids, to not only be full backs but to also provide all attacking width is tactical suicide.
Has he gone yet ?
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Yes!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/734689_594311580594780_1313681383_n.jpg)
There was nothing available though, so he'll have to pick himself up and go again.
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I disagree, I think Stevens will be a good player, he was fairly imense for a youngster against Man Utd until he got injured, I think your collective memory is shot.
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Does Lambert think his position is actually tenable? The fact that the performances appear to have got worse since the tonking by Chelsea on the 22nd December says it all.
The post match press conferences do not fill me with confidence at all. There is no desire, no criticism, no reasoning, no information given as to how he is going to address matters. All we get is a load of phrases like "we press on" game after game after game. He appears to be about as motivating as a visit to an accountant in Walsall on a dark winter Monday (apologies to accountants in Walsall). If he thinks we can stay up without changing things he is deluding himself, but more importantly he is placing the long-term future of the club in danger. Do we really want Villa ending up doing a Forest or a Leeds and falling through trap-door after trap-door. And as he is responsible for matters on the pitch he is "the accountable officer" and if he is not performing he should be "accountable".
Paul, have a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and if you feel you cannot take the club forward please do the honorable thing, pick up the phone to Randy and walk.
And Randy - it is about time YOU made your position on the club clear. >:( Many many moons ago the Meaning Evil ran a campaign when the health service was being re-organised in Birmingham, reporting on the machinations with a pair of eyes saying "Every Move You Make We Are Watching You". I suggest it is about time they got those eyes out of the archive and asked, on behalf of fans, some serious questions of Lerner and the Board, so we are clear they are here for the long haul and we are not going to see them do a Hicks or Gillett, or even worse....
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Warnock, Bent and Hutton should be in the team at the moment. I don't care about previous performance, but Lowton needs a break, Bennett shouldn't be starting all the time and Bent is a proven goal scorer.
I disagree about Bennett. I think he could benefit from playing leftie field in a 4-4-2.
I always thought the same about Jlloyd Samuel. Good skill, dribbling and crossing ability but couldn't defend for toffee.
Should bring Makoun back too.
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That just made me have a look at what old Jlloyd is up to these days. Hadn't heard much after he signed for Bolton.
He's playing in Iran!
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Interestingly, the Bradford fans can see what's wrong..
http://www.claretandbanter.co.uk/threads/32878-Lambert-s-Foolball-Manager-Tactics
Bollox. They are picking up on our threads and repeating the same shit. They can say anything they like now having humiliated us.
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Safe job (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21158105)
Good however we won't go down.
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I'm not so sure any more.
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Matt kendrick has tweeted that Vlaar is doing the pre match press stuff tomorrow instead of PL. he asks says he thinks the reason is "cause PL probably doesn't fancy having to answer questions right now"
If that's true that's truely shocking! Manager in hiding! After his bizarre subs last night, his air of desperation and now this, I'd say he's lost the plot!
It's not shocking at all. Why does he have to do the press conference? A good presser will not do anything for us result wise. He is better off spending his time on the training pitch.
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Matt kendrick has tweeted that Vlaar is doing the pre match press stuff tomorrow instead of PL. he asks says he thinks the reason is "cause PL probably doesn't fancy having to answer questions right now"
If that's true that's truely shocking! Manager in hiding! After his bizarre subs last night, his air of desperation and now this, I'd say he's lost the plot!
It's not shocking at all. Why does he have to do the press conference? A good presser will not do anything for us result wise. He is better off spending his time on the training pitch.
He has very little involvement on the training pitch, I thought?
From what I've read previously, on the occasions he bothers visiting the training ground at all, he just watches, and leaves everything to the coaches.
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Matt kendrick has tweeted that Vlaar is doing the pre match press stuff tomorrow instead of PL. he asks says he thinks the reason is "cause PL probably doesn't fancy having to answer questions right now"
If that's true that's truely shocking! Manager in hiding! After his bizarre subs last night, his air of desperation and now this, I'd say he's lost the plot!
It's not shocking at all. Why does he have to do the press conference? A good presser will not do anything for us result wise. He is better off spending his time on the training pitch.
Well it is strange.
I would have thought that If he can't/won't do the press conf, then a member of the coaching staff would do it.
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My opinion of late was that Villa needed stability, a chance to consolidate and hopefully build from. But we just look so certain for relegation, it's hard to back that up. We're getting worse. I don't even know what we need anymore.
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He's a very lucky man at the moment. There's no other club in the country producing such appalling results that haven't pulled the trigger.
Well the likes of Norwich and Newcastle are below us in the form table. And both of them have been knocked out of cups by pretty rubbish teams.
So there's a couple.
Are you backing lambert then dave ?
I honestly don't really care.
Of the last five managers I wanted McLeish and O'Leary sacked because they seemed to have no idea of what to do and did it very badly. The other three (including Lambert) seem to have an idea of what do to and did it (in varying degrees) badly. And by the time all of them left I didn't really care whether they stayed or went. But at least they all had an idea of how to run things, even if none of them really worked particularly well.
I'm pretty apathetic either way, which I think suits the current structure quite well.
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He has very little involvement on the training pitch, I thought?
From what I've read previously, on the occasions he bothers visiting the training ground at all, he just watches, and leaves everything to the coaches.
If true, that is pretty shocking - surely he should be getting involved with the players and being a hands on manager. Is Lambert competent?
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It is true. He does very little at BMH regarding coaching.
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Easy with hindsight, but we should have appointed Fat Sam straight after O'Neill. The players would have been used to the style of football and while we'd have been moaning like fuck, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.
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He's a very lucky man at the moment. There's no other club in the country producing such appalling results that haven't pulled the trigger.
Well the likes of Norwich and Newcastle are below us in the form table. And both of them have been knocked out of cups by pretty rubbish teams.
So there's a couple.
Are you backing lambert then dave ?
I honestly don't really care.
Of the last five managers I wanted McLeish and O'Leary sacked because they seemed to have no idea of what to do and did it very badly. The other three (including Lambert) seem to have an idea of what do to and did it (in varying degrees) badly. And by the time all of them left I didn't really care whether they stayed or went. But at least they all had an idea of how to run things, even if none of them really worked particularly well.
I'm pretty apathetic either way, which I think suits the current structure quite well.
I want Lambert to stay, he has not become a bad manger in just a couple of months. Given the funds and time he will turn it around.
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Easy with hindsight, but we should have appointed Fat Sam straight after O'Neill.
No thanks.
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Easy with hindsight, but we should have appointed Fat Sam straight after O'Neill. The players would have been used to the style of football and while we'd have been moaning like fuck, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.
The biggest problem is selling our best players, what did randy think was going to happen?
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Easy with hindsight, but we should have appointed Fat Sam straight after O'Neill. The players would have been used to the style of football and while we'd have been moaning like fuck, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.
The biggest problem is selling our best players, what did randy think was going to happen?
As Dave W is fond of saying, selling every single one of Barry, Young, Milner and Downing made perfect sense in isolation. The way that the funds were reinvested is the problem, not that they were sold.
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My opinion of late was that Villa needed stability, a chance to consolidate and hopefully build from. But we just look so certain for relegation, it's hard to back that up. We're getting worse. I don't even know what we need anymore.
Agree think its stability we need
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Easy with hindsight, but we should have appointed Fat Sam straight after O'Neill.
No thanks.
Agreed, I think Mr Woo needs to get down to Specsavers for a hindsight test. :¬)
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Ah come on now lads, I'd have gone nuts at the the time if they'd done it too. But you have to admit it makes sense. We had a squad set up for hoof ball at that time.
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We can't keep sacking mangers, absolutely crazy. If we do get relegated, and I think we will, Lambert is the man to get us back. Who else can we get? Anyone half decent is going to steer well clear. Lambert is still young in his managerial career, and still has a bright future.
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I accidentally clicked out.
We need to stick with him. His tactics last night were terrible but I think he has done a lot better in the transfer market than our last 2 managers.
The vast majority of people wanted him, we have him, so just back him.
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I also think resetting the poll straight after going out while people are still really pissed off is unfair.
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We have a serious dilemma. If Lambert is sacked, do you go for experience or another up and coming manager.
If you go for an experienced 'old hand', they will want to build a team by buying players. It seems to be the only way they know. With a current squad bloated with unsaleable assets, we are not in a position to spend too much money.
The alternative is doing what we are trying now i.e. rebuilding from the bottom. Would another manager be any more successful than Lambert given the current situation at the club.
The real problem is the players are not good enough in certain areas of the team i.e. midfield and centre of defence (although the latter is made to look worse than it is by the fact the rest of the team is very short and unable to defend the ball in the air. Vlaar, Clark and Benteke cannot pick up everybody). Unless this is addressed, the best coach in the world would still fail.
Anybody that thinks Lerner could sack Lambert, get somebody new in and have time to buy new players before the end of the month are living in cloud cuckoo land. That is not going to happen.
We have to follow the path of rebuilding from the bottom but Lerner needs to adjust his financial plan and invest a bit more before finances start to turn around.
People always want to have somebody to the blame and in reality, it is only the manager that can actually be replaced. You cannot replace Lerner as he owns the club (forget the crap of just being a custodian). He goes, when I wants to go and how much money he is willing to accept as a loss and just put it down to experience (or lack of).
Somebody else mentioned it, we are seeing the 'perfect storm' of circumstances that are causing our spiraling rapid decline. I cannot pin the blame on Lambert alone as I believe he is just a victim of circumstances. He has been successful elsewhere and therefore I think we should stick with him for the rest of this season and next. We need some stability.
The structure of the club is more important to sort out. We need a respected 'football' person at a high level to organise the playing teams at all levels and advise Lerner on how to run a PL football club. It may be that this needs to be more than one person.
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The finances won't be there to rebuild from the bottom if we go down. The Academy budget will be slashed massively..
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I also think resetting the poll straight after going out while people are still really pissed off is unfair.
Totally agree, considering local media love to pounce on message board polls. Are they going to reset it after every result now?
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For God's sake, no. We can't keep changing manager's every season. We can't afford to keep paying them and their backroom staff off anyway. As depressed as I've been today I still think there are positive signs in the gloom. Just a couple of key additions in defence and midfield could still save this God-awful season.
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Good to see some balance being restored in the poll based on sensible voting. If we ignore lot of angry votes sat night majority is still with Lambert in.
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I also think resetting the poll straight after going out while people are still really pissed off is unfair.
Totally agree, considering local media love to pounce on message board polls. Are they going to reset it after every result now?
I'll third that.
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I also think resetting the poll straight after going out while people are still really pissed off is unfair.
Totally agree, considering local media love to pounce on message board polls. Are they going to reset it after every result now?
I'll third that.
Yes. Especially as I'd set it so that votes could be altered if wished. Remove vote then revote.
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I say stick with Lambert. We can't keep sacking managers,we are playing crap right now and will struggle to stay up this season but we need some stability,give Lambert more of a chance to build his own team. Even if we do go down he's about the best out there right now to get us back up. Lets just hope he gets a bit of money to spend in the next week.
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I am still in shock thinking about those last 35 minutes last night and the clueless tactics employed. I still cant believe it to be honest. I say stick with him, but he needs to up his game and get the players to do the same. He also needs to get the team to defend set pieces better. He also needs help from the invisible owner who is seemingly leaving him out to dry.
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I also think resetting the poll straight after going out while people are still really pissed off is unfair.
Totally agree, considering local media love to pounce on message board polls. Are they going to reset it after every result now?
I'll third that.
Yes. Especially as I'd set it so that votes could be altered if wished. Remove vote then revote.
Could I also point out that although I started the topic, a mod added the poll and changed the title afterwards, so the poll is nothing to do with me.
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I say stick with Lambert. We can't keep sacking managers,we are playing crap right now and will struggle to stay up this season but we need some stability,give Lambert more of a chance to build his own team. Even if we do go down he's about the best out there right now to get us back up. Lets just hope he gets a bit of money to spend in the next week.
We don't keep sacking managers. One in about 18 years i think.
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I also think resetting the poll straight after going out while people are still really pissed off is unfair.
Now they have calmed down they can remove their vote.
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I say stick with Lambert. We can't keep sacking managers,we are playing crap right now and will struggle to stay up this season but we need some stability,give Lambert more of a chance to build his own team. Even if we do go down he's about the best out there right now to get us back up. Lets just hope he gets a bit of money to spend in the next week.
We don't keep sacking managers. One in about 18 years i think.
?
McLeish
Houllier
MON (tribunal thought so)
O'Leary (Ellis always sacked by mutual consent!)
etc
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MON (tribunal thought so)
*smack*
No they didn't.
This myth needs to be righted, even if it's one person at a time.
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Ok, they agreed to disagree.
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I reset it last night, in an interest of how the poll would go, and how long it would take for the more considered views to get it back in his favour. It is an interesting poll, as it shows how much people, given 24 hours will think through emotion and no longer follow their gut instinct.
I like Lambert, and I want him to succeed as much as I wanted GED too, I can see what he is trying to do, but I think ANY manager, at any club, is extremely fortunate to survive the run of results we have had.
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He's very lucky to still have a job imo.
I'm trying to think how bad it really would have to get before the board actually do pull the trigger as I orginally thought he wouldn't survive not beating Southampton or turning around the 2nd leg.
Now the board seem to be preparing for relegation, he could probably lose to Milwall and Newcastle and still be under little threat.
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If we sack Lambert now I can guarantee that he'll be picked up very quickly and will do extremely well at a Premier League club with a chairman who backs him.
You can save this and quote it back at me if you like!
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He's very lucky to still have a job imo.
I'm trying to think how bad it really would have to get before the board actually do pull the trigger as I orginally thought he wouldn't survive not beating Southampton or turning around the 2nd leg.
Now the board seem to be preparing for relegation, he could probably lose to Milwall and Newcastle and still be under little threat.
He is. Nearly every other club in the world would've gotten rid by now and that he's still here tells you all you need to know about where we are as a club. We are nowhere, directionless and probably going to be relegated.
Sunday Monday, Happy days......
One thing, even if we somehow do stay up this year, do people think Lambert may have been on the end of one too many embarrassments to be truly loved as a Villa boss?
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If we sack Lambert now I can guarantee that he'll be picked up very quickly and will do extremely well at a Premier League club with a chairman who backs him.
You can save this and quote it back at me if you like!
I think he will actually. Backed now even to get 3 good players and he could turn it round here.
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He's very lucky to still have a job imo.
I'm trying to think how bad it really would have to get before the board actually do pull the trigger as I orginally thought he wouldn't survive not beating Southampton or turning around the 2nd leg.
Now the board seem to be preparing for relegation, he could probably lose to Milwall and Newcastle and still be under little threat.
He is. Nearly every other club in the world would've gotten rid by now and that he's still here tells you all you need to know about where we are as a club. We are nowhere, directionless and probably going to be relegated.
Sunday Monday, Happy days......
One thing, even if we somehow do stay up this year, do people think Lambert may have been on the end of one too many embarrassments to be truly loved as a Villa boss?
i think the Lambert situation would be very different if he had been here a year or two more, the excuse of 'giving him more time' would not stack up
so the 'every other club' thing doesnt really work with a manager thats only been in the job 6 months, if it was 18 months a think he would be on his way
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Our club us a shambles. Lambert seems to me to be exactly the sort of up and coming manager we need to invest times and (sensible) money in.
Everyone has commented about how poor we've been for years, clinging on desperately to our Premier League status to the potential detriment of our long term future is, in my view, short - sighted.
However, we also need to understand you can't make an omelette without cracking eggs (or maybe in our squad's case egos).
This is a really rough and tough spell, on the downside, record and embarrassing defeats and goals against. On the positive, we're starting to develop a lot of young talent and we reached a cup semi final.
I would like to let Lambert see through his plan, it's worked at his previous clubs. He was a winner as a player and has been a successful coach.
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Totally agree we need to give the right manager plenty of time to turn things around.
Totally disagree that lambert is the right manager - get rid!
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I've voted "in" mainly because I can't be doing with the pantomime of another appointment. I'm not sure anyone would do much better anyway. I'm still undecided if he deserves a chance to take us back up if we do go down. I'll tell you in May. Or not hopefully.
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Totally agree we need to give the right manager plenty of time to turn things around.
Totally disagree that lambert is the right manager - get rid!
you were very keen on him being appointed though, whatever the reasons were that made him your first chioce they still remain,
maybe sticking by your man and seing if he can turn things round is a more difficult option, the easy option is just to say 'get rid' all the time,
whoever it is that you now prefer, in 6 months time the same post will be trotted out 'get rid'
he was never in my top 6,
but i still think we should stick it out, its not Randy or Lambert that is our greatest threat, its the high turnover of different managers with different plans
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I'm sticking by my out vote.
I like him, I like what he wants to do with the squad and I totally understand the need for it. I also think he's bought well, has been unlucky with injuries and has had to deal with some senior players who just aren't delivering anything like their best.
All that said his ability to influence a game with substitutions and tactical changes is nowhere near the standard it needs to be in this league. We can't defend a narrow lead and we can't claw a team back who've taken the lead. Tuesday was the most extreme example of it, where he completely removed the midfield and with it any chance of us retaining possession, we needed to keep hold of the ball and force lower league players into chasing shadows and tiring. They'd have made mistakes, in the end we got our 2nd because of a mistake but it was too late because we'd spend the previous 35 minutes hoofing aimless long balls at a congested box instead of building any pressure.
It's like having a goalkeeper who's brilliant and saves everything on his right hand side but who can't dive left, the flaw is just too big to ignore.
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If we sack Lambert now I can guarantee that he'll be picked up very quickly and will do extremely well at a Premier League club with a chairman who backs him.
You can save this and quote it back at me if you like!
What, like Owen Coyle has?
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Totally agree we need to give the right manager plenty of time to turn things around.
Totally disagree that lambert is the right manager - get rid!
you were very keen on him being appointed though
Eastie was keen on Alex Mcleish getting appointed...
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BTW I've voted Lambert in. I do think he'll get it right and have yet to hear a candidate I think will do any better. But Lerner needs to back him or sack him. As many people have said, do SOMETHING...
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I say stick with Lambert. We can't keep sacking managers,we are playing crap right now and will struggle to stay up this season but we need some stability,give Lambert more of a chance to build his own team. Even if we do go down he's about the best out there right now to get us back up. Lets just hope he gets a bit of money to spend in the next week.
We don't keep sacking managers. One in about 18 years i think.
?
McLeish
Houllier
MON (tribunal thought so)
O'Leary (Ellis always sacked by mutual consent!)
etc
McLeish was sacked before that you have to go back to Ron Atkinson in the mid 90s. Well that's what i thought anyway.
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I say stick with Lambert. We can't keep sacking managers,we are playing crap right now and will struggle to stay up this season but we need some stability,give Lambert more of a chance to build his own team. Even if we do go down he's about the best out there right now to get us back up. Lets just hope he gets a bit of money to spend in the next week.
We don't keep sacking managers. One in about 18 years i think.
?
McLeish
Houllier
MON (tribunal thought so)
O'Leary (Ellis always sacked by mutual consent!)
etc
McLeish was sacked before that you have to go back to Ron Atkinson in the mid 90s. Well that's what i thought anyway.
The tribunal also "didn't think so", either.
We have no idea what sum MON was claiming, and no idea of what was discussed, so to assume he was sacked is wide of the mark.
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"We defended well for three clean sheets out of four just a couple of months ago and we must get back to that. The relegation issue doesn't frighten me, there'll be a lot of clubs worried about getting sucked into it. We won't shy away from the challenge."
We defended well a couple of months ago, fucking hell well that is good news. Unfortunately since then we've conceded 8, 4, 3 and been beaten across two legs against Bradford. Also there might be other clubs being sucked into relegation trouble, but we're the only club doing fuck all to address our issues.
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This is many of today's papers:
"ASTON VILLA were so confident of beating Bradford they rejected a deal to split any Wembley profits with the League Two side.
Bradford made an informal approach before Tuesday’s Capital One Cup semi-final second leg, asking Villa if they wanted to go 50-50 on the money either side would make from the final.
Getting to Wembley is worth £1million in ticket sales, TV rights and prize money.
But even though Bradford were 3-1 up after the first leg, they recognised they could still go out.
So they suggested the two clubs should agree to £500,000 each irrespective of the outcome of the semi.
Some members of the Villa board were said to be up for the deal but boss Paul Lambert was not interested.
Had the agreement been made it would have been subject to approval by the Football League but it never got to that stage.
When Villa rejected the deal, Bradford then tried to insure against being knocked out. The premium was £250,000 but the League blocked it."
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Totally agree we need to give the right manager plenty of time to turn things around.
Totally disagree that lambert is the right manager - get rid!
you were very keen on him being appointed though
Eastie was keen on Alex Mcleish getting appointed...
cant remember anyone being keen on him to be honest
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Lerner and Faulkner spring to mind.
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Southampton could do it
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Southampton could do it
They did it a week ago but the speed of the appointment suggested it had been weeks in the planning.
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
Sorry Paul, but to me that timetable is unrealistic. If they're in work it will take more than 4 days to prize them away, even if they were interested in a job with a life expectancy of 6 months if things don't go to plan immediately. So, who is out of work that might do a better job, who might be interested in coming and who we can afford?
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
Sorry Paul, but to me that timetable is unrealistic. If they're in work it will take more than 4 days to prize them away, even if they were interested in a job with a life expectancy of 6 months if things don't go to plan immediately. So, who is out of work that might do a better job, who might be interested in coming and who we can afford?
Gary Megson (Except for the better job bit)
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No point no manager is going to have funds to improve the squad.
Also has been told job is safe,after losing to Soton.
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I see simon grayson has ben sacked this afternoon - pity it wasnt lambert .
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
Sorry Paul, but to me that timetable is unrealistic. If they're in work it will take more than 4 days to prize them away, even if they were interested in a job with a life expectancy of 6 months if things don't go to plan immediately. So, who is out of work that might do a better job, who might be interested in coming and who we can afford?
Southampton have just replaced their manager in 1 day and are being linked with a 10m brazilian wonderkid within a week, so not only is it a reasonably realistic timescale I can back it up with a very recent example.
As for asking who to replace him with, I have no idea but there's plenty of managers out there who'd love a shot in a the premier league.
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
Sorry Paul, but to me that timetable is unrealistic. If they're in work it will take more than 4 days to prize them away, even if they were interested in a job with a life expectancy of 6 months if things don't go to plan immediately. So, who is out of work that might do a better job, who might be interested in coming and who we can afford?
Southampton have just replaced their manager in 1 day and are being linked with a 10m brazilian wonderkid within a week, so not only is it a reasonably realistic timescale I can back it up with a very recent example.
As for asking who to replace him with, I have no idea but there's plenty of managers out there who'd love a shot in a the premier league.
My hope is that randy is lining up a replacement now and is about to fire lambert - my fear is that we continue as we are and go again .
Depressing times indeed.
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
Sorry Paul, but to me that timetable is unrealistic. If they're in work it will take more than 4 days to prize them away, even if they were interested in a job with a life expectancy of 6 months if things don't go to plan immediately. So, who is out of work that might do a better job, who might be interested in coming and who we can afford?
Southampton have just replaced their manager in 1 day and are being linked with a 10m brazilian wonderkid within a week, so not only is it a reasonably realistic timescale I can back it up with a very recent example.
As for asking who to replace him with, I have no idea but there's plenty of managers out there who'd love a shot in a the premier league.
My hope is that randy is lining up a replacement now and is about to fire lambert - my fear is that we continue as we are and go again .
Depressing times indeed.
Maybe Lerner is trying to play "Chicken" with Lambert and force him to resign rather than firing and waits till weekend if he loses to Millwall to resign.
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I notice that Huddersfield have sacked Simon Grayson,this is a manager who got Huddersfield promototed last season.They sit 7 ponts above the drop zone with plenty of games to play,Although I can understand peoples reasons for wanting to keep him.I also feel slightly embarrassed with our complete and utter lack of ambition when I see managers being sacked when our own manager is performing much worse, this is what I find the most hurtful is the message that it sends out,that this is good enough for Villa.It isn't and I believe it sends out the message that we have given up
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I see simon grayson has ben sacked this afternoon - pity it wasnt lambert .
See the Huddersfield chairman's quote, seems somewhat relevant to VP, except PL has more forgiving chairman and owner.
"After exceeding all our expectations in the early part of the season, our results and performances as a team and from individual players have tailed off alarmingly. Worsening displays have accompanied a run of just six points and no wins from the last 12 league games, including some very heavy defeats, culminating at Watford last Saturday.
"Whilst we would all have hoped for even some modest signs of improvement to begin to emerge as the weeks have passed that has not been the case. This has made the position untenable. We will now seek to recruit a new first team manager who can, in the short term, lead and reinvigorate the team and players for the remainder of this season and also drive us forward towards our long term aims."
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I see simon grayson has ben sacked this afternoon - pity it wasnt lambert .
See the Huddersfield chairman's quote, seems somewhat relevant to VP, except PL has more forgiving chairman and owner.
"After exceeding all our expectations in the early part of the season, our results and performances as a team and from individual players have tailed off alarmingly. Worsening displays have accompanied a run of just six points and no wins from the last 12 league games, including some very heavy defeats, culminating at Watford last Saturday.
"Whilst we would all have hoped for even some modest signs of improvement to begin to emerge as the weeks have passed that has not been the case. This has made the position untenable. We will now seek to recruit a new first team manager who can, in the short term, lead and reinvigorate the team and players for the remainder of this season and also drive us forward towards our long term aims."
Maybe he'll be our new manager
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Outs have a very slim majority.
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I see simon grayson has ben sacked this afternoon - pity it wasnt lambert .
See the Huddersfield chairman's quote, seems somewhat relevant to VP, except PL has more forgiving chairman and owner.
"After exceeding all our expectations in the early part of the season, our results and performances as a team and from individual players have tailed off alarmingly. Worsening displays have accompanied a run of just six points and no wins from the last 12 league games, including some very heavy defeats, culminating at Watford last Saturday.
"Whilst we would all have hoped for even some modest signs of improvement to begin to emerge as the weeks have passed that has not been the case. This has made the position untenable. We will now seek to recruit a new first team manager who can, in the short term, lead and reinvigorate the team and players for the remainder of this season and also drive us forward towards our long term aims."
Maybe he'll be our new manager
This is exactly the statement that should have been out on the OS weeks ago.We might still be in a final now,Apart from the bit about exceeding our expectaion at the early part of the season of course
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I notice that Huddersfield have sacked Simon Grayson,this is a manager who got Huddersfield promototed last season.They sit 7 ponts above the drop zone with plenty of games to play,Although I can understand peoples reasons for wanting to keep him.I also feel slightly embarrassed with our complete and utter lack of ambition when I see managers being sacked when our own manager is performing much worse, this is what I find the most hurtful is the message that it sends out,that this is good enough for Villa.It isn't and I believe it sends out the message that we have given up
That's a weird reading of the situation. We have changed manager for 3 consecutive seasons; it hasn't helped. What makes you think that if we did it now it would somehow be different this time?
If the new bloke you want doesn't improve things will you be calling for his head in the summer? What about next season, if things aren't immediately better - do we go through another two managers?
Enough is enough, we need stability not more upheaval.
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
Sorry Paul, but to me that timetable is unrealistic. If they're in work it will take more than 4 days to prize them away, even if they were interested in a job with a life expectancy of 6 months if things don't go to plan immediately. So, who is out of work that might do a better job, who might be interested in coming and who we can afford?
Southampton have just replaced their manager in 1 day and are being linked with a 10m brazilian wonderkid within a week, so not only is it a reasonably realistic timescale I can back it up with a very recent example.
As for asking who to replace him with, I have no idea but there's plenty of managers out there who'd love a shot in a the premier league.
Perhaps, but how many, worth their salt, would want a job with a life expectancy of half a season if things don't go well?
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I notice that Huddersfield have sacked Simon Grayson,this is a manager who got Huddersfield promototed last season.They sit 7 ponts above the drop zone with plenty of games to play,Although I can understand peoples reasons for wanting to keep him.I also feel slightly embarrassed with our complete and utter lack of ambition when I see managers being sacked when our own manager is performing much worse, this is what I find the most hurtful is the message that it sends out,that this is good enough for Villa.It isn't and I believe it sends out the message that we have given up
That's a weird reading of the situation. We have changed manager for 3 consecutive seasons; it hasn't helped. What makes you think that if we did it now it would somehow be different this time?
If the new bloke you want doesn't improve things will you be calling for his head in the summer? What about next season, if things aren't immediately better - do we go through another two managers?
Enough is enough, we need stability not more upheaval.
It's completely irrelevant if the owner is removing all investment. I agree there's no point in sacking the manager, because without investment this team is rubbish whoever the manager is. It's not so much a stability issue, more a result of our hopeless board/owner.
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
Sorry Paul, but to me that timetable is unrealistic. If they're in work it will take more than 4 days to prize them away, even if they were interested in a job with a life expectancy of 6 months if things don't go to plan immediately. So, who is out of work that might do a better job, who might be interested in coming and who we can afford?
Southampton have just replaced their manager in 1 day and are being linked with a 10m brazilian wonderkid within a week, so not only is it a reasonably realistic timescale I can back it up with a very recent example.
As for asking who to replace him with, I have no idea but there's plenty of managers out there who'd love a shot in a the premier league.
Perhaps, but how many, worth their salt, would want a job with a life expectancy of half a season if things don't go well?
Not so much things not going well as being virtually as bad at any time in the last 25 years, with worst records being broken left right and centre.
This is no blip or bad run it is a totally unacceptable string of appalling results .
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
Sorry Paul, but to me that timetable is unrealistic. If they're in work it will take more than 4 days to prize them away, even if they were interested in a job with a life expectancy of 6 months if things don't go to plan immediately. So, who is out of work that might do a better job, who might be interested in coming and who we can afford?
Southampton have just replaced their manager in 1 day and are being linked with a 10m brazilian wonderkid within a week, so not only is it a reasonably realistic timescale I can back it up with a very recent example.
As for asking who to replace him with, I have no idea but there's plenty of managers out there who'd love a shot in a the premier league.
Perhaps, but how many, worth their salt, would want a job with a life expectancy of half a season if things don't go well?
If the club went with your thinking we'd still have Billy McBingo in charge.
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I notice you ignored the question I posed, Eastie.
Lambert has a good record, he hasn't become a poor manager overnight. If people like you were to get their way (and thankfully it doesn't look as though you will) we'd never get anywhere. Half a season with an injury hit squad isn't enough time to get the measure of a manager and as I've said elsewhere, changing manager every 12 months hasn't worked so far, why will it now after only 6 months?
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
Sorry Paul, but to me that timetable is unrealistic. If they're in work it will take more than 4 days to prize them away, even if they were interested in a job with a life expectancy of 6 months if things don't go to plan immediately. So, who is out of work that might do a better job, who might be interested in coming and who we can afford?
Southampton have just replaced their manager in 1 day and are being linked with a 10m brazilian wonderkid within a week, so not only is it a reasonably realistic timescale I can back it up with a very recent example.
As for asking who to replace him with, I have no idea but there's plenty of managers out there who'd love a shot in a the premier league.
Perhaps, but how many, worth their salt, would want a job with a life expectancy of half a season if things don't go well?
If the club went with your thinking we'd still have Billy McBingo in charge.
It looks as though they are going with my way of 'thinking', rather than your knee jerk reactionary approach.
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
Sorry Paul, but to me that timetable is unrealistic. If they're in work it will take more than 4 days to prize them away, even if they were interested in a job with a life expectancy of 6 months if things don't go to plan immediately. So, who is out of work that might do a better job, who might be interested in coming and who we can afford?
Southampton have just replaced their manager in 1 day and are being linked with a 10m brazilian wonderkid within a week, so not only is it a reasonably realistic timescale I can back it up with a very recent example.
As for asking who to replace him with, I have no idea but there's plenty of managers out there who'd love a shot in a the premier league.
Perhaps, but how many, worth their salt, would want a job with a life expectancy of half a season if things don't go well?
If the club went with your thinking we'd still have Billy McBingo in charge.
It looks as though they are going with my way of 'thinking', rather than your knee jerk reactionary approach.
Im sure that your way of thinking will be applauded as we enter Division 2
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
Sorry Paul, but to me that timetable is unrealistic. If they're in work it will take more than 4 days to prize them away, even if they were interested in a job with a life expectancy of 6 months if things don't go to plan immediately. So, who is out of work that might do a better job, who might be interested in coming and who we can afford?
Southampton have just replaced their manager in 1 day and are being linked with a 10m brazilian wonderkid within a week, so not only is it a reasonably realistic timescale I can back it up with a very recent example.
As for asking who to replace him with, I have no idea but there's plenty of managers out there who'd love a shot in a the premier league.
Perhaps, but how many, worth their salt, would want a job with a life expectancy of half a season if things don't go well?
If the club went with your thinking we'd still have Billy McBingo in charge.
It looks as though they are going with my way of 'thinking', rather than your knee jerk reactionary approach.
Sacking Lambert would hardly be " knee jerk" given the results we've had,the position we're in and what we're set to lose.Still the owners not bothered so why the hell should I be.
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
Sorry Paul, but to me that timetable is unrealistic. If they're in work it will take more than 4 days to prize them away, even if they were interested in a job with a life expectancy of 6 months if things don't go to plan immediately. So, who is out of work that might do a better job, who might be interested in coming and who we can afford?
Southampton have just replaced their manager in 1 day and are being linked with a 10m brazilian wonderkid within a week, so not only is it a reasonably realistic timescale I can back it up with a very recent example.
As for asking who to replace him with, I have no idea but there's plenty of managers out there who'd love a shot in a the premier league.
Perhaps, but how many, worth their salt, would want a job with a life expectancy of half a season if things don't go well?
If the club went with your thinking we'd still have Billy McBingo in charge.
It looks as though they are going with my way of 'thinking', rather than your knee jerk reactionary approach.
Im sure that your way of thinking will be applauded as we enter Division 2
Absolutely. We could still be described as "stable" as we slipped into oblivion.
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I notice you ignored the question I posed, Eastie.
Lambert has a good record, he hasn't become a poor manager overnight. If people like you were to get their way (and thankfully it doesn't look as though you will) we'd never get anywhere. Half a season with an injury hit squad isn't enough time to get the measure of a manager and as I've said elsewhere, changing manager every 12 months hasn't worked so far, why will it now after only 6 months?
Whilst I agree with this it's also worth remembering that Lambert, like most of our squad, is still learning. What has really surprised me is the level of his tactical naivity. Maybe my expectations were too high but then I wasn't really expecting that much, just somebody that knew the basics and could build something solid in the future.
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Lambert has had it good here. He took over an established Premier League club that had just had it's worst season in years, replacing one of the most unpopular managers in even longer.
He had a blank canvass but a team with a bit of quality littered throughout. And £25m to spend.
Even O'Neill made use of Sorenson, Hughes, Angel and Baros before replacing them all gradually.
I wouldn't sack him, but the only signing he got right in the Summer was Benteke and that was in the one position we probably didn't need anybody.
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What you're ignoring by saying the post has a life expectancy of 6 months is that it would only be the case if someone showed the tactical knowledge as a 10 year old, much like Lambert has, particularly in recent weeks.
Again, I think most of the things he's done have been very good but you can't overlook the fact that a lot of the points we've dropped or heavy defeats we've suffered have come on the back of some truly astounding tactical decisions. I was willing to ignore the tactical naivety for a while but it's happening too often now. Letting Chelsea maul us like he did was the catalyst for what has to be the worst month the club has gone through since football began (according to sky), and he's not been able to fix it.
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Irrespective of whether we buy anyone (or leave sufficient time to do so), sacking Lambert requires finding a replacement. I just dont trust Lerner and Faulkner to make a good choice. We'd probably have weeks of uncertainty and then get another duffer appointed in desperation.
Let Lambert have the time he needs to sort out the stinking mess we are in. He has made some terrible tactical decisions but I really dont blame him for the cost cutting or buying players from lower leagues. I suspect that he was told to do this to trim the wage bill and now has to cobble together a team out of them.
I'd rather Lerner came out and said that Lambert is in for the long haul and we have a plan - whatever that plan may be. Just fucking tell us something!
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I notice you ignored the question I posed, Eastie.
Lambert has a good record, he hasn't become a poor manager overnight. If people like you were to get their way (and thankfully it doesn't look as though you will) we'd never get anywhere. Half a season with an injury hit squad isn't enough time to get the measure of a manager and as I've said elsewhere, changing manager every 12 months hasn't worked so far, why will it now after only 6 months?
I agree we need a manager long term to build things but only if he is the right man - i thought lambert may be that man but he looks completely out of his depth , similar to when mike walker left norwich for everton - maybe this club is just not the right fit for lambert but his tactics, formations , team selections and substitutions have left me baffled many times - i think he has lost his way and cannot see him taking us anywhere but down .
This appointment is not lerners fault but it is no time to blindly hope it will all turn out right in the end - its not worked out and the time to move on is now .
My choice would be guy poyet or glenn hoddle .
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I notice you ignored the question I posed, Eastie.
Lambert has a good record, he hasn't become a poor manager overnight. If people like you were to get their way (and thankfully it doesn't look as though you will) we'd never get anywhere. Half a season with an injury hit squad isn't enough time to get the measure of a manager and as I've said elsewhere, changing manager every 12 months hasn't worked so far, why will it now after only 6 months?
I agree we need a manager long term to build things but only if he is the right man - i thought lambert may be that man but he looks completely out of his depth , similar to when mike walker left norwich for everton - maybe this club is just not the right fit for lambert but his tactics, formations , team selections and substitutions have left me baffled many times - i think he has lost his way and cannot see him taking us anywhere but down .
This appointment is not lerners fault but it is no time to blindly hope it will all turn out right in the end - its not worked out and the time to move on is now .
My choice would be guy poyet or glenn hoddle .
Poyet or Hoddle...I am so pleased you are not in charge as we will be changing Managers with the weather!
All the conditions were correct in appointing Lambert and he is still the best choice for us now. Yes I accept that we could have done better but not much better with anyone else given the prevailing circumstances at the club. I do not see a need for change. What we need is stability.
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What we need is investment from the owner and if we don't get that we're fucked.
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Glenn Hoddle?! Piss on a pogo stick!!
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Hoddle would probably send players to consult that faith healer :D.
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I have a gripe with the blind loyalty that managers have with their back room staff. When they arrive at a club they sack en block the experienced staff as they are to be replaced with their buddies.
Prior to a season at Norwich, what premiership experience do PLs coaches have? We always associate the playing deficiencies with the manager, why do they never sack the coaches? Chairmen hire the managers, why don't they go for the best coaches?
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I have a gripe with the blind loyalty that managers have with their back room staff. When they arrive at a club they sack en block the experienced staff as they are to be replaced with their buddies.
Prior to a season at Norwich, what premiership experience do PLs coaches have? We always associate the playing deficiencies with the manager, why do they never sack the coaches? Chairmen hire the managers, why don't they go for the best coaches?
Yeah, this is something I've been thinking about. A lot of people say the sort of "Martin Laursen would show em how to defend a corner" type stuff, but there may be something in it. If we can't freshen up the playing staff, maybe a change or addition on the coaching side would help. Surely it can't hurt.
For the record I voted Lambert in on Tuesday and think i'll stick with that. I get the points about his tactical naivety the other night and in recent games but, if we can't get a Gus Hiddink type A-list manager in (we can't), and we can't sign some players (don't think we can) then I think we have to just cross our fingers and go with it.
I think a lot of our problems are bigger than Lambert and bigger than Lerner even. We got lumbered with a load of over paid and under performing players on long contracts as the market changed and we're paying the price. A lot of outside observers say, get Ireland and some of the higher earners out and rebuild, but that's not an option if no one want's them. There are a whole lot of things that Lerner/Faulkner/All Randy's managers/the players.. have done wrong but the poisonous situation we find ourselves in is bigger than anything they have individually done wrong.
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To be honest, i've never been too comfortable with his 'no wingers policy'
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To be honest, i've never been too comfortable with his 'no wingers policy'
Other than Stoke and West Ham, who does play with traditional wingers these days. There are players who will get wide at times during the game but will also have to tuck in at others.
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To be honest, i've never been too comfortable with his 'no wingers policy'
Personally i'm very uncomfortable with his 'no clue policy'. Especially when he puts 5 cunting strikers on the field in one go and with about half an hour of the game left.
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To be honest, i've never been too comfortable with his 'no wingers policy'
Other than Stoke and West Ham, who does play with traditional wingers these days. There are players who will get wide at times during the game but will also have to tuck in at others.
You're right but I would add Man Utd as well.
The problem we have is the movement off the ball and switching position does not happen with our players. It is not just this season either, it has been going on for years. It has been disguised by the fact we have had some very good players that could make a counter-attacking game work.
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I'll vote on the 1st February. Buy some players and I'll go for in. Maintain the status quo and I'll go for out. But what difference would it make then as we'll be down, down, deeper and down...
Indeed, one of the compelling factors in voting out is the idea that they might get someone in quick enough for us to make a signing or 2 before the window closes, if they're not going to back lambert then they'd have to back a new guy.
Do you really think it's feasible to sack a manger on 24th January and for a replacement to be recruited, appointed and him assess the squad and identify reinforcements in time to make signings by the 31st?
Can you see the glaring weakness in our squad? If you can so can an experienced manager. We need an big strong central defender to command the box and a big bustling midfielder to give us some drive and battle in there.
If he went today we'd have to have a new guy in by tuesday so he could spend wednesday and thursday on the phone.
Other clubs have replaced their manager in that timescale so it's perfectly feasible.
Sorry Paul, but to me that timetable is unrealistic. If they're in work it will take more than 4 days to prize them away, even if they were interested in a job with a life expectancy of 6 months if things don't go to plan immediately. So, who is out of work that might do a better job, who might be interested in coming and who we can afford?
Southampton have just replaced their manager in 1 day and are being linked with a 10m brazilian wonderkid within a week, so not only is it a reasonably realistic timescale I can back it up with a very recent example.
As for asking who to replace him with, I have no idea but there's plenty of managers out there who'd love a shot in a the premier league.
Their new manager had been lined up weeks ago and it was unfortunate for their Board that they picked up two good results but they had already set their stall out. Also, their new manager had that Brazilian player on loan at Espanyol so he knows all about him.
I'd love to have a shot at managing Villa but it does not mean that I would be any good.
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To be honest, i've never been too comfortable with his 'no wingers policy'
Personally i'm very uncomfortable with his 'no clue policy'. Especially when he puts 5 cunting strikers on the field in one go and with about half an hour of the game left.
I hate profanity and one could argue this is rather simplistic. However, fucking spot on.
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If we sack Lambert now I can guarantee that he'll be picked up very quickly and will do extremely well at a Premier League club with a chairman who backs him.
You can save this and quote it back at me if you like!
What, like Owen Coyle has?
What has Owen Coyle got to do with anything?
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http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-boss-paul-lambert-1240993
Paul Lambert has confirmed he will retain his job even if Villa are relegated – and claims Randy Lerner’s vote of confidence has strengthened his resolve to keep the club up.
Lambert revealed the chairman had pledged to stand by him even if the doomsday scenario occurs and the claret and blues slide from the Premier League into the Championship.
The bold show of support from the Villa Park board comes after Lambert jetted to America to meet the owner last week and takes the mounting pressure off the manager.
But, despite his own position being secure, the 43-year-old Scot insists he is more concerned about Villa’s survival and insists saving the club remains his top priority.
Villa visit Championship club Millwall in the FA Cup fourth round this evening, aiming to restore confidence from their Capital One Cup semi-final shocker against Bradford, before resuming their Premier League survival struggle against relegation rivals Newcastle at Villa Park on Tuesday.
Asked if Lerner had told him directly that his job was safe ‘regardless of what might happen’ this season, Lambert replied: “Yes, just the other day.”
When it was suggested to him that it was a big call for the chairman to make, given that many managers had been sacked much quicker and for less damaging results, the Villa boss joked: “It’s amazing what 20 quid can do to somebody.
“As I’ve said before he’s been great with me. Listen, nobody wants to go down at all. None whatsoever. We have to get through this season and win some games.
“There will be a few other clubs in the exact same position as us thinking we could be in trouble here.
“But that’s the relationship I have with the manager. I get on really well with him.
“It’s his club and we are trying to do our best for it, trying to get it rebuilt down the path we want to go down.
“He has been really good.”
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Aston Villa: The footballing world reacts to Bradford defeat
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Asked if Lerner’s reassurances gave him a lift after the batterings Villa have taken this season, Lambert replied: “Yes, but I’ve never been caught up in the furore.”
Lambert, who also revealed there was little prospect of incoming transfers this month, insists Lerner’s faith in him will not lead to complacency during the relegation battle.
“I don’t want to sit here and feel easy about that and think ‘do you know what? We keep getting beat, but I’m safe’,’’ he said.
“I don’t think like that, you still worry like hell about things and you still have that sick feeling in your stomach.
“I don’t sit there and think ‘because the chairman said you’re job’s safe so it doesn’t matter about results’. I still feel like c***.”
Lambert also confirmed he took time away from the training ground a week ago, between the Southampton and West Brom matches, to fly to New York to see the chairman last week.
“I went out there to get some sun,’’ he added. “It was an open invitation anyway, whether it was the start of the season or now.
“I never found time to go out before. I went out there for a couple of days, just for a chat and it was good to see New York for a couple of days.
:o ::) :-\
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http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-boss-paul-lambert-1240993
Paul Lambert has confirmed he will retain his job even if Villa are relegated – and claims Randy Lerner’s vote of confidence has strengthened his resolve to keep the club up.
Lambert revealed the chairman had pledged to stand by him even if the doomsday scenario occurs and the claret and blues slide from the Premier League into the Championship.
The bold show of support from the Villa Park board comes after Lambert jetted to America to meet the owner last week and takes the mounting pressure off the manager.
But, despite his own position being secure, the 43-year-old Scot insists he is more concerned about Villa’s survival and insists saving the club remains his top priority.
Villa visit Championship club Millwall in the FA Cup fourth round this evening, aiming to restore confidence from their Capital One Cup semi-final shocker against Bradford, before resuming their Premier League survival struggle against relegation rivals Newcastle at Villa Park on Tuesday.
Asked if Lerner had told him directly that his job was safe ‘regardless of what might happen’ this season, Lambert replied: “Yes, just the other day.”
When it was suggested to him that it was a big call for the chairman to make, given that many managers had been sacked much quicker and for less damaging results, the Villa boss joked: “It’s amazing what 20 quid can do to somebody.
“As I’ve said before he’s been great with me. Listen, nobody wants to go down at all. None whatsoever. We have to get through this season and win some games.
“There will be a few other clubs in the exact same position as us thinking we could be in trouble here.
“But that’s the relationship I have with the manager. I get on really well with him.
“It’s his club and we are trying to do our best for it, trying to get it rebuilt down the path we want to go down.
“He has been really good.”
View gallery
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Aston Villa: The footballing world reacts to Bradford defeat
View gallery
Asked if Lerner’s reassurances gave him a lift after the batterings Villa have taken this season, Lambert replied: “Yes, but I’ve never been caught up in the furore.”
Lambert, who also revealed there was little prospect of incoming transfers this month, insists Lerner’s faith in him will not lead to complacency during the relegation battle.
“I don’t want to sit here and feel easy about that and think ‘do you know what? We keep getting beat, but I’m safe’,’’ he said.
“I don’t think like that, you still worry like hell about things and you still have that sick feeling in your stomach.
“I don’t sit there and think ‘because the chairman said you’re job’s safe so it doesn’t matter about results’. I still feel like c***.”
Lambert also confirmed he took time away from the training ground a week ago, between the Southampton and West Brom matches, to fly to New York to see the chairman last week.
“I went out there to get some sun,’’ he added. “It was an open invitation anyway, whether it was the start of the season or now.
“I never found time to go out before. I went out there for a couple of days, just for a chat and it was good to see New York for a couple of days.
:o ::) :-\
Breathtaking. Complacency, irrelevance, obstinacy, refusal to face facts and many other reasons we're where we are. It really is Comical Ali 'I see no tanks' stuff. Say what you like about Lambert, I think he gives exactly as much of a fuck about our club as Lerner. By the time his contract is up he has earned the equivalent of a lottery win, what does it matter if he never works again.
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http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-boss-paul-lambert-1240993
Paul Lambert has confirmed he will retain his job even if Villa are relegated – and claims Randy Lerner’s vote of confidence has strengthened his resolve to keep the club up.
Lambert revealed the chairman had pledged to stand by him even if the doomsday scenario occurs and the claret and blues slide from the Premier League into the Championship.
The bold show of support from the Villa Park board comes after Lambert jetted to America to meet the owner last week and takes the mounting pressure off the manager.
But, despite his own position being secure, the 43-year-old Scot insists he is more concerned about Villa’s survival and insists saving the club remains his top priority.
Villa visit Championship club Millwall in the FA Cup fourth round this evening, aiming to restore confidence from their Capital One Cup semi-final shocker against Bradford, before resuming their Premier League survival struggle against relegation rivals Newcastle at Villa Park on Tuesday.
Asked if Lerner had told him directly that his job was safe ‘regardless of what might happen’ this season, Lambert replied: “Yes, just the other day.”
When it was suggested to him that it was a big call for the chairman to make, given that many managers had been sacked much quicker and for less damaging results, the Villa boss joked: “It’s amazing what 20 quid can do to somebody.
“As I’ve said before he’s been great with me. Listen, nobody wants to go down at all. None whatsoever. We have to get through this season and win some games.
“There will be a few other clubs in the exact same position as us thinking we could be in trouble here.
“But that’s the relationship I have with the manager. I get on really well with him.
“It’s his club and we are trying to do our best for it, trying to get it rebuilt down the path we want to go down.
“He has been really good.”
View gallery
"""""""""
Aston Villa: The footballing world reacts to Bradford defeat
View gallery
Asked if Lerner’s reassurances gave him a lift after the batterings Villa have taken this season, Lambert replied: “Yes, but I’ve never been caught up in the furore.”
Lambert, who also revealed there was little prospect of incoming transfers this month, insists Lerner’s faith in him will not lead to complacency during the relegation battle.
“I don’t want to sit here and feel easy about that and think ‘do you know what? We keep getting beat, but I’m safe’,’’ he said.
“I don’t think like that, you still worry like hell about things and you still have that sick feeling in your stomach.
“I don’t sit there and think ‘because the chairman said you’re job’s safe so it doesn’t matter about results’. I still feel like c***.”
Lambert also confirmed he took time away from the training ground a week ago, between the Southampton and West Brom matches, to fly to New York to see the chairman last week.
“I went out there to get some sun,’’ he added. “It was an open invitation anyway, whether it was the start of the season or now.
“I never found time to go out before. I went out there for a couple of days, just for a chat and it was good to see New York for a couple of days.
:o ::) :-\
Breathtaking. Complacency, irrelevance, obstinacy, refusal to face facts and many other reasons we're where we are. It really is Comical Ali 'I see no tanks' stuff. Say what you like about Lambert, I think he gives exactly as much of a fuck about our club as Lerner. By the time his contract is up he has earned the equivalent of a lottery win, what does it matter if he never works again.
That article is unbelievable and I agree with Mike's comments... just shoot me and put me out of my misery!
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right, so he's got a job however shit he does? I take it back mike, you're right.
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Never fail to resort to Alex McLeish when there is no other argument. He was a better manager than Lambert. The results prove it. You don't win the league by virtue of not having been associated with Small Heath.
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The results don't prove anything until they've both had the same number of matches, and even then, you're judging purely on a points on the board basis, and even then it is premature.
Lambert has his problems and weaknesses, but McLeish, in less than one season, sapped my will to watch Villa more than any other manager.
Lambert is trying to get us playing decent football and winning matches, and failing.
McLeish didn't try, and failed.
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decent football? when? I have never seen a villa side so at sea than in the last month. Never.
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The results don't prove anything until they've both had the same number of matches, and even then, you're judging purely on a points on the board basis, and even then it is premature.
Lambert has his problems and weaknesses, but McLeish, in less than one season, sapped my will to watch Villa more than any other manager.
Lambert is trying to get us playing decent football and winning matches, and failing.
McLeish didn't try, and failed.
Points on the board.
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The results don't prove anything until they've both had the same number of matches, and even then, you're judging purely on a points on the board basis, and even then it is premature.
Lambert has his problems and weaknesses, but McLeish, in less than one season, sapped my will to watch Villa more than any other manager.
Lambert is trying to get us playing decent football and winning matches, and failing.
McLeish didn't try, and failed.
Points on the board.
It's not, though, Lambert has had five months, not a whole season, and even then, it is far from the only barometer. You also have to look at how the team is playing, what progress has been made that doesn't necessarily convert to points yet, and the conditions under which it is achieved.
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If Lambert isn't failing, then I don't know how else you'd term it. This season has seen record defeats, an unprecedented cup upset, record lows in points gained and goals scored. Put all that in pot and you've got a complete and utter disaster with one conclusion.
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The results don't prove anything until they've both had the same number of matches, and even then, you're judging purely on a points on the board basis, and even then it is premature.
Lambert has his problems and weaknesses, but McLeish, in less than one season, sapped my will to watch Villa more than any other manager.
Lambert is trying to get us playing decent football and winning matches, and failing.
McLeish didn't try, and failed.
Points on the board.
It's not, though, Lambert has had five months, not a whole season, and even then, it is far from the only barometer. You also have to look at how the team is playing, what progress has been made that doesn't necessarily convert to points yet, and the conditions under which it is achieved.
Compare it with the same stage of the season then, when they had both had five months.
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The results don't prove anything until they've both had the same number of matches, and even then, you're judging purely on a points on the board basis, and even then it is premature.
Lambert has his problems and weaknesses, but McLeish, in less than one season, sapped my will to watch Villa more than any other manager.
Lambert is trying to get us playing decent football and winning matches, and failing.
McLeish didn't try, and failed.
Points on the board.
It's not, though, Lambert has had five months, not a whole season, and even then, it is far from the only barometer. You also have to look at how the team is playing, what progress has been made that doesn't necessarily convert to points yet, and the conditions under which it is achieved.
How the team have been playing - shite
what progress that has been made that doesn't necessarily convert to points - none at all
What conditions under which it has been achieved - more injuries, but bigger squad to the tune of 20m
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The results don't prove anything until they've both had the same number of matches, and even then, you're judging purely on a points on the board basis, and even then it is premature.
Lambert has his problems and weaknesses, but McLeish, in less than one season, sapped my will to watch Villa more than any other manager.
Lambert is trying to get us playing decent football and winning matches, and failing.
McLeish didn't try, and failed.
Points on the board.
It's not, though, Lambert has had five months, not a whole season, and even then, it is far from the only barometer. You also have to look at how the team is playing, what progress has been made that doesn't necessarily convert to points yet, and the conditions under which it is achieved.
Compare it with the same stage of the season then, when they had both had five months.
Still not a direct comparison.
Lambert is dealing with the shite McLeish turned us into over the course of a season.
We may have had shit results, but we've played ten times as much actual football under Lambert than we did under McLeish.
There's a reason that, even with the dreadful results, he still gets decent support here (look at the poll), and it isn't because McLeish used to manage Small Heath, either.
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hmmmm the poll where's he's lost 36% support in under a month?
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Hasn't Lambert won more matches now at least than Eck did?
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Hasn't Lambert won more matches now at least than Eck did?
Off the top of my head, he's won the same amount. (if you count all competitions this season, and only the league last year)
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Clutching at straws now.
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hmmmm the poll where's he's lost 36% support in under a month?
The one where he still has the support of the majority of people on here, despite one of the worst runs of results the club has had for years.
That one.
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hmmmm the poll where's he's lost 36% support in under a month?
The one where he still has the support of the majority of people on here, despite one of the worst runs of results the club has had for years.
That one.
Still seeing he had 99% support at the start of the season compared with probably Houllier say about 70% and TSM at..well we won't go there, he's managed to turn over a third of true believers against him just on his football alone without any external considerations. Impressive.
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Christ, Greg, that's a real piece of straw-clutching there.
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Lambert's not going anywhere. Even if we wanted to sack him we
probably couldn't afford it.
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not really. the last two managers were immensley unpopular appointments. The daggers were out for Houllier because he said nice things about liverpool ffs. Lambert on the other hand was most people's choice including my own. Just by his hopeless management and clueless tactics, he mananged to turn 50% of people willing him to succeed into committed anti lambchops by January.. As i said impressive.
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hmmmm the poll where's he's lost 36% support in under a month?
The one where he still has the support of the majority of people on here, despite one of the worst runs of results the club has had for years.
That one.
Still seeing he had 99% support at the start of the season compared with probably Houllier say about 70% and TSM at..well we won't go there, he's managed to turn over a third of true believers against him just on his football alone without any external considerations. Impressive.
It's a poll of 378 people, it only takes a relatively small number to switch sides to change the outcome significantly. To use it as anything more than a snapshot of a specific moment in time for this site is ridiculous.
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And yet, he still has the support of the majority.
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Lambert's not going anywhere. Even if we wanted to sack him we probably couldn't afford it.
Well he's said he not being sacked even if we go down. Not much incentive to do better there.
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And yet, he still has the support of the majority.
yep people who don't want to admit they were wrong. see also MON.
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And yet, he still has the support of the majority.
yep people who don't want to admit they were wrong. see also MON.
Crikey, that's an even more desperate argument. "The only reason those people don't vote Lambert Out is because they don't want to admit they were wrong"
In an anonymous vote.
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And yet, he still has the support of the majority.
yep people who don't want to admit they were wrong. see also MON.
Crikey, that's an even more desperate argument. "The only reason those people don't vote Lambert Out is because they don't want to admit they were wrong"
In an anonymous vote.
Well suit yourself paulie. Personally i don't understand why you're really against Lerner and at the same time pro-lambchop. They're working to the same plan - i.e. relegation. If lambert had any problems with it he wouldn't be telling the world how he's got a job for life and constantly forcing his way up Lerner's exhaust pipe at every press conference he gives. He's Lerner's stooge.
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I'm not pro Lambert, I am pro not sacking another manager now, as it'd extinguish any chance we have of survival.
It's not that complicated.
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I'm not pro Lambert, I am pro not sacking another manager now, as it'd extinguish any chance we have of survival.
It's not that complicated.
ANYONE is better than a Lerner yes-man. I rather go down fighting than have some complacent twat who'd knows his job is safe whatever he does.
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No point in changing while Lerner and his austerity measures are in place, no point whatsoever.
Hardly a ringing endoresemnt of PL but that's why i voted IN.
Lerner/Faulkner is and has been the problem though for a few years and sacking PL won't really change anything imo.
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Asked if Lerner had told him directly that his job was safe ‘regardless of what might happen’ this season, Lambert replied: “Yes, just the other day.”
When it was suggested to him that it was a big call for the chairman to make, given that many managers had been sacked much quicker and for less damaging results, the Villa boss joked: “It’s amazing what 20 quid can do to somebody.
“As I’ve said before he’s been great with me. Listen, nobody wants to go down at all. None whatsoever. We have to get through this season and win some games.
“There will be a few other clubs in the exact same position as us thinking we could be in trouble here.
“But that’s the relationship I have with the manager. I get on really well with him.
Sorry, but i don't want Lerner's poodle in charge.
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I'm not pro Lambert, I am pro not sacking another manager now, as it'd extinguish any chance we have of survival.
It's not that complicated.
ANYONE is better than a Lerner yes-man. I rather go down fighting than have some complacent twat who'd knows his job is safe whatever he does.
But you don't know any of that. PL could be a fucked off as the rest of us wishing he'd never considered the job. I wouldn't blame him. Lerner may have moved the goal posts, I reckon he did on MON leading to his walk out and subsequent litigation.
The constant issue here is Lerner/Faulkner, each year our playing resources are being depleted and each year there is less and less investment in the squad - stands to reason we are where we are.
Get Mourihnio in if you like and I'd suspect the outcome would be much the same.
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I'm not pro Lambert, I am pro not sacking another manager now, as it'd extinguish any chance we have of survival.
It's not that complicated.
ANYONE is better than a Lerner yes-man. I rather go down fighting than have some complacent twat who'd knows his job is safe whatever he does.
But you don't know any of that. PL could be a fucked off as the rest of us wishing he'd never considered the job. I wouldn't blame him. Lerner may have moved the goal posts, I reckon he did on MON leading to his walk out and subsequent litigation.
The constant issue here is Lerner/Faulkner, each year our playing resources are being depleted and each year there is less and less investment in the squad - stands to reason we are where we are.
Get Mourihnio in if you like and I'd suspect the outcome would be much the same.
Well he should get some balls and quit then. No-one would blame him if he came out and said Lerner had gone back on his promises. The fact he's sitting there coming out with how nice Randy is, harks back to TSM's reign. What possible incentive have you got if you can't be sacked? And we spent 20m nett this summer which is a darn sight more than last summer
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Yeah maybe but then by quitting he'd be kissing good by to a fair bit of compo and hindering any chances he has of another job by openly and publicly criticising the current owner.
Managers don't quit these days and in all honesty I'd do the same in his shoes.
Very depressing all round.
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Final straw for me that press conference. I wanted him out but i hoped he'd turn it around, but after that he's so obviously on Team-Lerner and who could blame him when he's unsackable? I though we'd be lucky to stay up anyway, now i know we're down when there's a stooge in the manager's seat prepared to do anything to keep his job.
At least he'll go the way of Kean when he can't cut it in the championship. Disgusted so i'm off to bed.
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Lerners cunning plan, as with McLeish. Always better to have someone who will be more unpopular than you.
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If the manager has any balls he'd walk and expose the owner and his slow strangulation of our club.
But he hasn't got any balls, he trots out the same shit, hangdog experession and defeatist body language week after week.
At least TSM had the courage of his convictions, believed his methods were correct and thought he was doing the best for the club even though no-one else did.
The Other Scottish Manager is a fuckin' spineless mouse who will be complicit in a deliberate policy to relegate us that will follow him like an albatross for the rest of his days. And I hope it does.
Fuck him, if he stays and takes us back up? fuck him, if we win the FA Cup? fuck him. Paul Lambert?
Fuck him.
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Hang on Nev, are you saying you think Lambert is trying to get us relegated on purpose? Do you really believe that, or have you still not got over Tuesday?
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Hang on Nev, are you saying you think Lambert is trying to get us relegated on purpose? Do you really believe that, or have you still not got over Tuesday?
No I think the owner is and Lambert is complicit. Anyone can see that without additions we will go down. Not big name, big money players but some short term experienced level heads, thats all the team needs to have a fighting chance. If we try and still go down than so be it, but we must try. I believe the manager has known this for some time such is his body language and attitiude.
He appears to be accepting of our plight and I don't want anyone at Villa to have that outlook. The owner has obviously made his mind up but the manager could show a little principle and side with the real heart of the club. The fans.
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I just don't understand why he would wish us to get relegated and miss out on over £60 million.
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Don't understand why he doesn't just walk and take the club to a tribunal
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I just don't understand why he would wish us to get relegated and miss out on over £60 million.
Because he doesn't think we can stay up regardles of any money spent, even on loans so he tries to save as much money as possible and if we stay up by some miracle, we would've bought new players in for little effect since we stayed up without their help and we saved the money we would've spent on them.
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I just don't understand why he would wish us to get relegated and miss out on over £60 million.
WOuld Vila be a more saleable asset if we were in the championship? There'd certainly be more buyers I'd imagine as we wouldn't cost as much.
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I just don't understand why he would wish us to get relegated and miss out on over £60 million.
WOuld Vila be a more saleable asset if we were in the championship? There'd certainly be more buyers I'd imagine as we wouldn't cost as much.
That was in my thinking, cheaper to run all round and how about a play off victory at Wembley to raise our profile? The re-birth of Villa, the club are back! Might bump up the asking price.
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It seems I owe Lambert an apology, it's not him that now picks the team, it's Lerner:
"As I’ve said before he’s been great with me. Listen, nobody wants to go down at all. None whatsoever. We have to get through this season and win some games.
“There will be a few other clubs in the exact same position as us thinking we could be in trouble here.
“But that’s the relationship I have with the manager. I get on really well with him.
“It’s his club and we are trying to do our best for it, trying to get it rebuilt down the path we want to go down.
“He has been really good.”
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I don't think he wants to sell or has given up, I just don't think there's any money available to the manager now. I don't think it means we haven't got any, just that there's none available now. You've had your 23m (or whatever it was) now do your job. If you do a half decent one, you'll get some more in the summer. If we go down, you'll have to sell a lot of players and will get a lot less than if we stay up. So keep us up, I think is the message from randy.
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I don't think he wants to sell or has given up, I just don't think there's any money available to the manager now. I don't think it means we haven't got any, just that there's none available now. You've had your 23m (or whatever it was) now do your job. If you do a half decent one, you'll get some more in the summer. If we go down, you'll have to sell a lot of players and will get a lot less than if we stay up. So keep us up, I think is the message from randy.
Fifth highest spenders in the league last summer and he chose not to replace Petrov. Can't blame Lerner for that.
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I don't think he wants to sell or has given up, I just don't think there's any money available to the manager now. I don't think it means we haven't got any, just that there's none available now. You've had your 23m (or whatever it was) now do your job. If you do a half decent one, you'll get some more in the summer. If we go down, you'll have to sell a lot of players and will get a lot less than if we stay up. So keep us up, I think is the message from randy.
Fifth highest spenders in the league last summer and he chose not to replace Petrov. Can't blame Lerner for that.
We did replace petrov, we brought in KEA to be the experienced head in the middle. That's he's not turned out as well as we'd hoped doesn't make him free or invisible.
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And nick I think that is exactly what has fucked us. We don't have a proper leader on the pitch. The players have shown they have a decent performance in them a few times this season. But there's no leader. We've had some average captains and some great ones down the years. Even the average ones like McCann or Stuart Grey would do a better job in this side and get some confidence, organisation and shape.
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Exactly and for KEAs fee, and the league he cme from, he was always going to be a gamble.
He could have spent more money on one midfielder but that would have left us even more light in other areas.
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How can there be no money when Deloitte have us in the top 30 clubs in the world with an annual revenue of 96 million a year? I don't understand it
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I don't think he wants to sell or has given up, I just don't think there's any money available to the manager now. I don't think it means we haven't got any, just that there's none available now. You've had your 23m (or whatever it was) now do your job. If you do a half decent one, you'll get some more in the summer. If we go down, you'll have to sell a lot of players and will get a lot less than if we stay up. So keep us up, I think is the message from randy.
Fifth highest spenders in the league last summer and he chose not to replace Petrov. Can't blame Lerner for that.
We did replace petrov, we brought in KEA to be the experienced head in the middle. That's he's not turned out as well as we'd hoped doesn't make him free or invisible.
Bad luck for Lambert, in that what was probably his most important signing of the summer, the one we had to get right, has turned out to look more than a little bit shonky.
I don't really have a problem with Lambert's purchases if you look at them all.
Benteke looks like an inspired buy.
Vlaar I think is decent, and will improve
Westwood looks super promising, as does Lowton
Guzan re-signing has been excellent for us, too. Let's not forget, he'd actually already left the club, yet another contract expiry allowed to happen.
KEA looked decent in patches, then really started to struggle.
Bennett i find totally unconvincing, but I suspect he needs time to adapt, rather than getting slaughtered week after week.
The problem is that we've found ourselves with way, way too many young inexperienced players starting at the same time. Think about all the statistics we have heard re our average starting age this season.
Lambert's problem transfer-wise was in the players he didn't buy, not the ones he did. Right now, the addition of two of those players (a DM and a CB) would make all the difference, and wouldn't need to cost that much. Just a bit of experience and nous would make an enormous difference.
The problem is, the club aren't going to give him that, as they're either too blind or too stupid to see what is right in front of their faces.
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He's operating within a shit budget, yes the players could be better but we miss the influence of Vlaar and I don't think realistically he wanted to play all the kids at once but we ain't got much bloody choice, sounds like there is no money in January either?? Who's going to sort it out? We've been shit under GH, Mccunt and now Lambert, who's to blame? Managers or chairman?
We were in the bottom 6 with vlaar in the team and he is not fit to lace the boots of mellberg, laursen etc - he will not be our saviour .
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The point I was trying to make was more about the personality and leadership of Petrov. I can't believe Lambert had done his homework if he thought KEA was the answer.
I honestly believe it was his most fundamental mistake, even after two or three games it was obvious. In hindight another centre half would be helpful but he must have thought Dunne would have been back in the Autumn, but that midfield leader is a yawning chasm now.
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Hang on Nev, are you saying you think Lambert is trying to get us relegated on purpose? Do you really believe that, or have you still not got over Tuesday?
No I think the owner is and Lambert is complicit. Anyone can see that without additions we will go down. Not big name, big money players but some short term experienced level heads, thats all the team needs to have a fighting chance. If we try and still go down than so be it, but we must try. I believe the manager has known this for some time such is his body language and attitiude.
He appears to be accepting of our plight and I don't want anyone at Villa to have that outlook. The owner has obviously made his mind up but the manager could show a little principle and side with the real heart of the club. The fans.
Spot on about Lambert and Lerner appearing to be complicit.
You can almost imagine how the recent heart-to-heart went.
Lambert: we need more players to be sure of surviving.
Lerner: we can't afford any
Lambert: I'm worried about my reputation and losing my job if we go down
Lerner: don't worry, I won't sack you. We might have some room to manouvre in the summer and you'll get a shot at bringing us back up
Lambert: You're a great bloke Randy - see you in the summer.
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Hang on Nev, are you saying you think Lambert is trying to get us relegated on purpose? Do you really believe that, or have you still not got over Tuesday?
No I think the owner is and Lambert is complicit. Anyone can see that without additions we will go down. Not big name, big money players but some short term experienced level heads, thats all the team needs to have a fighting chance. If we try and still go down than so be it, but we must try. I believe the manager has known this for some time such is his body language and attitiude.
He appears to be accepting of our plight and I don't want anyone at Villa to have that outlook. The owner has obviously made his mind up but the manager could show a little principle and side with the real heart of the club. The fans.
Spot on about Lambert and Lerner appearing to be complicit.
You can almost imagine how the recent heart-to-heart went.
Lambert: we need more players to be sure of surviving.
Lerner: we can't afford any
Lambert: I'm worried about my reputation and losing my job if we go down
Lerner: don't worry, I won't sack you. We might have some room to manouvre in the summer and you'll get a shot at bringing us back up
Lambert: You're a great bloke Randy - see you in the summer.
I can't believe how many people believe this to be the case.
The board and manager aren't preparing us for relegation, we're not even in the relegation zone as things stand. They might be being stubborn in their belief that these kids are good enough to get us out of this and that the squad is big enough but they're not actively planning on being relegated. The notion that it might even have occurred to them as an option is crazy. Will they have discussed it and started forming a plan of how to handle the situation, of course, we're in the mix, it would be stupid not to.
I'd be fairly certain that Lambert has put together a list of targets and is thinking "if I can get any of these guys for a suitable price/wage I want to go for it (this wage/fee may have been set unrealistically low), but otherwise I'll back my squad to get out it, rather than spend money on players I don't want".
You can disagree with that all you like but it's the most likely scenario as things stand. I'm suggest we've approached people and have the money to make the transfers but the players have asked for silly wages based on where we are in the league, along with all kinds of relegation clauses.
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paul_e you are teetering dangerously close to speaking sense there.
I think the general mood of depression is bringing about this feeling that the powers that be are conspiring to have us relegated. Of course they aren't. The problem is that they are so inept that, whether they are conspiring to do it or not, the end result looks like being the same.
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How can there be no money when Deloitte have us in the top 30 clubs in the world with an annual revenue of 96 million a year? I don't understand it
Hate to piss on your chips but the other side of the equation is outgoings.
Wages for players who aren't delivering currently alone amounts to £25m per annum. We have spent £20m recruiting and firing managers in the last 2.5 years and made huge losses on many (not all) transfers with little sell on
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How can there be no money when Deloitte have us in the top 30 clubs in the world with an annual revenue of 96 million a year? I don't understand it
Because Premier League clubs have the ability to spend £2 of every pound that comes in.
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Exactly rob, it all seems to be pointing towards complete mismanagement from the board. We are one of the highest with our annual revenue. We have had £200 million pumped into the club by our owner yet we find ourselves without a pot to piss in. It just makes me cringe. It's a stupid amount of money with very little to show for it. £20 million spent on recruiting managers and compensation payouts in two and a half years is incredible.
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How can there be no money when Deloitte have us in the top 30 clubs in the world with an annual revenue of 96 million a year? I don't understand it
Because Premier League clubs have the ability to spend £2 of every pound that comes in.
I don't get what you mean there? Do you mean with bank/owner loans etc we can spend more than we have coming in based on what we will get back in the future?
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How can there be no money when Deloitte have us in the top 30 clubs in the world with an annual revenue of 96 million a year? I don't understand it
Because Premier League clubs have the ability to spend £2 of every pound that comes in.
I don't get what you mean there? Do you mean with bank/owner loans etc we can spend more than we have coming in based on what we will get back in the future?
No, I mean that whatever they have coming in, they'll still spend more and get into bigger debt. An example is the new TV deal, which I read somewhere means that every Premier League club could cut matchday ticket prices by £30 and still have as much income as this season. What do you think they'll do with the money - cut prices, pay off their overdrafts, invest in long-term projects such as community initiatives and overseas scouting networks, or pay ever-higher transfer fees and wages?
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Yeah, I suppose the more you look into it and think about it. How much if this £60 million will actually benefit clubs? It will line the agents pocket and go I to even higher wage demands for players.
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Paul e - just as I was beginning to cringe at how unable to understand basic mathematics some of the faithful appear - you have saved the day.
There is no conspiracy folks.
There simply is no more money to pour down the wage drain.
What there is - is a proven manager just six months at a new club - a club who have flirted with relegation for the past two seasons - a squad packed with overpaid and underfperforming 'stars' from previous incumbents - leavened with our own homegrown but green gilled youngsters.
Lambert is a ball hair away from getting it right - but the margin is very narrow - and results are everything. Yet I accept Lambert has and will make mistakes.
Selecting Given against any team that pumps balls into the box is simply stupid. Given is a world class shot stopper - but as a keeper commanding his area he is shite - wee Jimmy Krankie could do better. So I ask you - if Guzan had played - and he had simply wallked out and caught Bradford's scoring corner (as I think he would have) - and we scored in the 89th - and the game went to ET - don't you think we would have won? I do. And a Wembley Final would be the result.
That is how tight these decisions are.
Yes we are in the shit but throwing more shit at the manager or the players will only end up with everything covered in shit ....
Lambert has walked into a big big challenge here. He kept telling us when he arrived but we didn't believe him. He knew he had to get rid of the 60k a week posse. He knew the model was for young inexpensive talent that may make the grade. He's picked up a gem in Benteke - and despite some deserved critiscism - Lowton - Vlaar - and Westwood will get stronger. Bennett needs a kick up the arse (and a haircut) but only El Ahmadi has proven a let down for me - as he is an experienced international - and I had hoped for more from him.
We can play good football - we can also play like drunken chumps. Lambert needs to address the hole in the middle of the team left by the once derided and now applauded Stan Petrov - and maybe think about another centre half - preferably one who can head the ball and run faster than a steamroller.
Two players could be all it takes to turn this season around. Could be.
That is the test. Time for Lambert to prove himself.
Right - South Bermondsey next - time to hide the pad.
UTV
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I am beginning to detest this buffoon more than the last buffoon.
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I have never hated a Villa manager as much as I hate Lambert.
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Sack him for fucks sake
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I don't hate Lambert, he just clearly doesn't have a clue.
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I don't hate Lambert, he just clearly doesn't have a clue.
I hate his stupid fucking mumbling
I hate him wearing a tracksuit when the most physical activity he does is stand on the touchline with a helpless expression on his face
I hate his tired repetitive 'we go again' interviews
I hate the fact that his interviews over the last week have been far more negative than anything DO'L and TSM came out with.
Fuck him.
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Are we going to reset the poll yet again? Or shall we leave it for a while.... please.
What is happening on the pitch right now is clearly symptomatic of the whole club. It's not good.
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Lose on Tuesday and he will go one way or the other.
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Wanted him gone after bradford and still want him out!
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From Beeb live feed.
We haven't got long left, so it might be a bit naughty of me to pose these questions, but I will anyway. Has anything gone right for Villa since Martin O'Neill put out that weakened team in the Europa League? Secondly, since O'Neill, Villa have tried Houllier, McLeish and now Lambert. Is constantly changing manager the way to go? Are the problems elsewhere?
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Go, and whoever replaces him pray for a dead cat bounce.
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Not always the best idea to comment after a shit result, but if I waited until after a good one i'd only be able to post a few times a year.
Right now I vote out.
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Depressing very depressing, can't wait to see what he's goin to say
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The club has been rotten for a while, there is literally no hope now.
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I hate Lambert.
His interviews represent him perfectly as a manager, boring, repetitive, sleep inducing.
Going into the season him buying more younger players only made matters worse.
He's a clueless ****** and I can't handle having to hear another one of his post match press confrences.
Is there anything to like about our club at the moment?
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From Beeb live feed.
We haven't got long left, so it might be a bit naughty of me to pose these questions, but I will anyway. Has anything gone right for Villa since Martin O'Neill put out that weakened team in the Europa League? Secondly, since O'Neill, Villa have tried Houllier, McLeish and now Lambert. Is constantly changing manager the way to go? Are the problems elsewhere?
It doesn't matter about whether Lambert is a good or bad manager. He is doing a shocking job right now, with the players he has. If he stays as our manager it is probable we will be relegated. With that on his CV he will never be accepted as manager at Villa. It really is a complete no-brainer that he must leave now, while there is still time for somebody to rouse the players we have (we're clearly not buying any new ones) into an unlikely survival. Maybe somebody will then buy the club in the summer.
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I can't believe there's anyone who still supports Lerner's yes-man. What does he care? He's still got a job next season
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Get your coat Lambert...
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Sod waiting until 1st February. Out.
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He's got some front. How he can turn up for work tomorrow....
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He won't even have the decency to resign and save us a few million on sacking him. Waiting to hear the usual
''Cant keep conceding from set pieces, it was criminal''
''Players gave there all out there''
''We have to stick together and come out fighting''
''Wont buy players for the sake of it''
''We go again........''
Who exactly is he looking to sign? Someone for a fiver who will pay us to play.
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Thought Tuesday was bad but I can't ever remember feeling as hopeless as this.That PR flunky on WM before the game told us exactly how deluded Lerner is.
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Regardless of the fucking moron in charge of our club a lot of our problems are down to Lambert and he must go for that. He can't organise set piece defending or even the most basic tactical instruction, for that he must go.
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He just looks like he's had the will sapped out of him. He should resign to save us the money out of decency, and because it would be good for him as well frankly.
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I genuinely think the size of the job has drowned him
How he is not banging at Faulkner and Lerner for 2-3 players is beyond me, but I am starting to think it would not make a difference. Get him out now, get Adkins in before it is too late and he goes elsewhere and give the place a bit of something different.
OR give it Martin Laursen and Sid Cowans as 1-2 and try and put some pride and love back in the place. We need something to galvanise the fans, at the moment there is just bleak nothingness.
Not felt this bad since O'Leary.
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Surprised that it's 50/50 now. Lerner is hugely at fault, and that muppet Fuckner, but Lambert? If I was as poor at my job as he is I'd walk away. If I was as poor at my job as he is I'd get sacked, summarily dismissed, and I'd be lucky to get paid up to my finishing date, much less a couple of years worth on top as 'compensation' for my abject failure! It's horrendous.
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and O'Leary had a few good players.
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Adkins was my choice last summer, but I'm not sure what he would do differently. The big problem is still the lack of quality players. Whether it's Randy's refusal to invest or Lambert's inability to convince potential signings to come, it's going to fuck us.
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Are we allowed a Lerner In / Out poll?
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I genuinely think the size of the job has drowned him
How he is not banging at Faulkner and Lerner for 2-3 players is beyond me, but I am starting to think it would not make a difference. Get him out now, get Adkins in before it is too late and he goes elsewhere and give the place a bit of something different.
OR give it Martin Laursen and Sid Cowans as 1-2 and try and put some pride and love back in the place. We need something to galvanise the fans, at the moment there is just bleak nothingness.
Not felt this bad since O'Leary.
He looks so utterly lost, I think he will be ready for mental ward before end of the season if he stays.
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I agree with Ozz. I think he is out of his depth right now. Which isn't really his fault.
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OR give it Martin Laursen and Sid Cowans as 1-2 and try and put some pride and love back in the place. We need something to galvanise the fans, at the moment there is just bleak nothingness.
I'd be inclined to give that a try actually. Keep us up and then have a look see who's available permanently in the summer.
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Lambert seems to have run out of ideas, he looks like a rabbit in the headlights as he stands on the touchline. I really think he is out of his depth and doesn't know how to stop the slide. Who we replace him with ......................... no idea at the moment.
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We need up and at em football, played at a high tempo, being lead from a midfield not giving the opposition time to squeeze out a sneaky fart let alone pass the ball. The best we have played in 3 years was under GMac, wonder what he is up to at the minute.
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How can his possibly galvanise these players? He's lost them. The only remote chance we have is to change. Last roll of the dice.
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You may as well take one of the choices away.
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Villa fan just rang up talksport ( the first one backing Lambert after 10 calls)
he said but you have to play the young kids to get experience and there are 6 clubs worse then Villa , we will be ok.
Insane
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How can his possibly galvanise these players? He's lost them. The only remote chance we have is to change. Last roll of the dice.
There comes a point where you have to deviate from the plan if it is doomed to fail. We need to tug for dear fucking life on the cord now. Anyone with a bubbly personality that can organise a defence.
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How can his possibly galvanise these players? He's lost them. The only remote chance we have is to change. Last roll of the dice.
There comes a point where you have to deviate from the plan if it is doomed to fail. We need to tug for dear fucking life on the cord now. Anyone with a bubbly personality that can organise a defence.
I think we are all wondering about who we could replace Lambert with to keep us up where as the owner is hoping Lambert can bring us back up. No attempt is being made to change anything
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How can his possibly galvanise these players? He's lost them. The only remote chance we have is to change. Last roll of the dice.
There comes a point where you have to deviate from the plan if it is doomed to fail. We need to tug for dear fucking life on the cord now. Anyone with a bubbly personality that can organise a defence.
Too bad Deano already took the Wolves job, he would've been at least bubbly.
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Villa fan just rang up talksport ( the first one backing Lambert after 10 calls)
he said but you have to play the young kids to get experience and there are 6 clubs worse then Villa , we will be ok.
Insane
Well he's clinically insane. I repeat from another thread, they're not fucking young.
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Villa fan just rang up talksport ( the first one backing Lambert after 10 calls)
he said but you have to play the young kids to get experience and there are 6 clubs worse then Villa , we will be ok.
Insane
Who are these teams?
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Tied has truly turned now. Fully expect a Bolton style atmosphere on Tuesday!! There is no return now. Especially with him snubbing the local press.
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Can we reset the poll, interesting to see now. This is a catastrophe and unfortunately Lambert seems to be incapable of changing our current course.
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Villa fan just rang up talksport ( the first one backing Lambert after 10 calls)
he said but you have to play the young kids to get experience and there are 6 clubs worse then Villa , we will be ok.
Insane
Who are these teams?
Birmingham City
Wolves
Coventry
Walsall
Hamilton Academicals
Bromsgrove Sporting
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Can we reset the poll, interesting to see now. This is a catastrophe and unfortunately Lambert seems to be incapable of changing our current course.
If anyone wants to change their vote there is a "remove vote" option. After clicking that they can vote again.
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Villa fan just rang up talksport ( the first one backing Lambert after 10 calls)
he said but you have to play the young kids to get experience and there are 6 clubs worse then Villa , we will be ok.
Insane
Who are these teams?
wolves blackburn blackpool errrrr no wait Nobody City
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I'm very sorry to say he needs to go now. It is not happening. Please leave, no pay offs, just leave and let us be.
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HEH. its gonna be the biggest loss of support since the lib dems went into government
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Villa fan just rang up talksport ( the first one backing Lambert after 10 calls)
he said but you have to play the young kids to get experience and there are 6 clubs worse then Villa , we will be ok.
Insane
Who are these teams?
wolves blackburn blackpool errrrr no wait Nobody City
he said we beat Newcastle and QPR we will be fine
we cant beat Wigan, Soton, Bradford ( over 2 legs ) and Millwall
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I hate to say it but he looks like a man who is totally bemused by events unfolding in front of him rather than exerting any sort of control over them. Its a great shame.
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Some guy on Twatter.
Paul Lambert just walk past me saying: "He is absolutely shite the c*nt." Not sure who he was talking about but assume he didn't play well.
I think reality is setting in.
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That would be Kendrick then!
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Some guy on Twatter.
Paul Lambert just walk past me saying: "He is absolutely shite the c*nt." Not sure who he was talking about but assume he didn't play well.
I think reality is setting in.
#stephenireland
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Some guy on Twatter.
Paul Lambert just walk past me saying: "He is absolutely shite the c*nt." Not sure who he was talking about but assume he didn't play well.
I think reality is setting in.
not really narrowed it down has he?
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To be fair, could have been talking about any one of eleven...
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Lambert seems to have run out of ideas, he looks like a rabbit in the headlights as he stands on the touchline. I really think he is out of his depth and doesn't know how to stop the slide. Who we replace him with ......................... no idea at the moment.
Agree and I do feel for him, but he's not waving he's drowning. He's gone from a bright young manager to a beaten man in the space of a few months. I have supported him up until now, but just can't see him turning it around and feel we need to act now.
We are in a desperate situation and we need desperate measures. I'm not really thinking straight at this point, but rather than appoint another full-time manager at this point, I would appoint a Villa man until the end of the season (someone like Graham Taylor) and then at the end of the season would get him to make necessary changes for next season (whichever league we are in) and advise on the next appointment.
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I really think we could have any manager in charge and we'd be in pretty much the same position. I'd stick with Lambert because, on the evidence of what he has done with other clubs, he does have a clue about football, tactics and so on. I know it's desperate but we have simply got to keep backing our man and team until we have achieved safety. Next summer we will invest once more and hopefully make progress.
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If he's refusing to answer questions from Kendrick at the post match press conference, then that's really not a good state to be in.
He needs all the support he can get right now, he should be trying to get people on-side, not alienating the local press.
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Some guy on Twatter.
Paul Lambert just walk past me saying: "He is absolutely shite the c*nt." Not sure who he was talking about but assume he didn't play well.
I think reality is setting in.
Was he walking past a mirror at the time?
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I really think we could have any manager in charge and we'd be in pretty much the same position. I'd stick with Lambert because, on the evidence of what he has done with other clubs, he does have a clue about football, tactics and so on. I know it's desperate but we have simply got to keep backing our man and team until we have achieved safety. Next summer we will invest once more and hopefully make progress.
Sorry but you're mad.
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I really think we could have any manager in charge and we'd be in pretty much the same position. I'd stick with Lambert because, on the evidence of what he has done with other clubs, he does have a clue about football, tactics and so on. I know it's desperate but we have simply got to keep backing our man and team until we have achieved safety. Next summer we will invest once more and hopefully make progress.
Its now not what hes done in the past , hes out of his depth at this club and must go now!
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Right now, if i'm honest what manager with anything approaching a decent reputation would take over if Lambert did go? It really is a poison chalice at the moment.
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Lambert seems to have run out of ideas, he looks like a rabbit in the headlights as he stands on the touchline. I really think he is out of his depth and doesn't know how to stop the slide. Who we replace him with ......................... no idea at the moment.
Agree and I do feel for him, but he's not waving he's drowning. He's gone from a bright young manager to a beaten man in the space of a few months. I have supported him up until now, but just can't see him turning it around and feel we need to act now.
We are in a desperate situation and we need desperate measures. I'm not really thinking straight at this point, but rather than appoint another full-time manager at this point, I would appoint a Villa man until the end of the season (someone like Graham Taylor) and then at the end of the season would get him to make necessary changes for next season (whichever league we are in) and advise on the next appointment.
That is what the Villa does to a man.Only SGT mk1 knew it and came out better for it.
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@RorySmithTimes: I like Paul Lambert. But his blanking of perfectly reasonable questions from @MatKendrick in the presser tonight was petulant and pointless.
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I think sacking the manager now and giving the new guy no time and money would be a mistake. Who would take in on n such circumstances?
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If we look down and out already; its a win win for anyone that wants the job.
save us the guys a genius.
we go down, and the accepted wisdom will be that we were dead on arrival anyway.
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I think sacking the manager now and giving the new guy no time and money would be a mistake. Who would take in on n such circumstances?
Which is what the board planned all along.
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I think sacking the manager now and giving the new guy no time and money would be a mistake. Who would take in on n such circumstances?
Which is what the board planned all along.
What's that saying...Don't attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence?
What could they possibly gain from this? You make it sound like the club is run by a Bond villain.
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@RorySmithTimes: I like Paul Lambert. But his blanking of perfectly reasonable questions from @MatKendrick in the presser tonight was petulant and pointless.
It's getting towards the end.
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Sorry, but have i missed something? Why's he blanking Kendrick?
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@RorySmithTimes: I like Paul Lambert. But his blanking of perfectly reasonable questions from @MatKendrick in the presser tonight was petulant and pointless.
It's getting towards the end.
Mosley has tweeted that ' do the club really want a war with the press'
Not good. PL behaviour is making things worse. Said it for weeks but he is clearly showing signs of a manger who has lost he plot. No going back now. I expect to see him gone before Tuesday one way or another. The Aston villa farce continues
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Mystery man just tweeted "Lambert is history"
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Sorry, but have i missed something? Why's he blanking Kendrick?
Probably to do with the mail questioning lerner- lamberts a yes man - nothing more .
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@RorySmithTimes: I like Paul Lambert. But his blanking of perfectly reasonable questions from @MatKendrick in the presser tonight was petulant and pointless.
It's getting towards the end.
About time too.
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.
I think sacking the manager now and giving the new guy no time and money would be a mistake. Who would take in on n such circumstances?
It's not about who we buy now - thats not happening. It's about if anyone can get better out of the existing players than lambert, and frankly that list includes some rather piss poor names because Lambchop is probably the worst manager we've had in my time at least. billy McNeill and graham turner - bring 'em on
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Mystery man just tweeted "Lambert is history"
Hes tweeted that loads for 2 weeks- take it with a pinch of salt.
I will be ecstatic though if he got sacked tomorrow as its our only hope
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It seems though that every manager who takes us over now loses the plot. It's clear that the 'youngsters' need to get the boot, they're forced on every manager and frankly they're nowhere near good enough.
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Mystery man just tweeted "Lambert is history"
That's not the Mysteryman from on here though. Well I don't think it is anyway.
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It's a right shit state of affairs and make no mistake.
It will probably get worse. But I have a feeling PL will come good in the end.
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I'd imagine the last thing he wants to do immediately after that is sit in front of the media again but if you want to be a manager in the PL these days its part of the job.
I'd imagine Kendrick was doing his job and asking some fairly searching questions - perhaps Lambert has taken exception to the Mail stories over the last few days.
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Mystery man just tweeted "Lambert is history"
So what?
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Mystery man just tweeted "Lambert is history"
That's not the Mysteryman from on here though. Well I don't think it is anyway.
No , he has been wrong the last fortnight , i hoped he was real but hes as phoney as lambert.
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Reading tweets from more than one journo that the club have called a board meeting at 8.30am Sat morning. Also, from another saying he's heard Roeder is replacing Lambert... Hoping that's bollocks, obviously.
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Reading tweets from more than one journo that the club have called a board meeting at 8.30am Sat morning. Also, from another saying he's heard Roeder is replacing Lambert... Hoping that's bollocks, obviously.
Another yes man then.... It never ends!
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Reading tweets from more than one journo that the club have called a board meeting at 8.30am Sat morning. Also, from another saying he's heard Roeder is replacing Lambert... Hoping that's bollocks, obviously.
So we are meant to believe the Randy will be chairing a board meeting at 03.30 hrs his time, what a load of bollocks.
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Reading tweets from more than one journo that the club have called a board meeting at 8.30am Sat morning. Also, from another saying he's heard Roeder is replacing Lambert... Hoping that's bollocks, obviously.
heh Roeder They're such clueless knobs, there's not a person on here who doesn't think that's more than possible.
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Bollocks to all this,I'm emigrating to the Isle of Man !
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I feel like a god with the vote tied at 200 all.....I vote goodbye.
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Roeder? Feck me i'd rather get Barry Fry.
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The PL going rumours are spreading quicker than a tub of marg in a greenhouse.
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About this poll, can we have a "shake him all about" option?
Mods?
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I hold Lamberts destiny in my hands...
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About this poll, can we have a "shake him all about" option?
Mods?
heh. made me laugh anyway.
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And as if by magic the shop keeper appeared.
And i'm that frustrated by things I did add it as an option.
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I think we are in the end game - suddenly i have hope in my heart again !
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The PL going rumours are spreading quicker than a tub of marg in a greenhouse.
Its all rubbish yet another example of social media hysteria another reason to regret the invention of Shitter, sorry Twitter
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The PL going rumours are spreading quicker than a tub of marg in a greenhouse.
Its all rubbish yet another example of social media hysteria another reason to regret the invention of Shitter, sorry Twitter
Some respected journalists are not in agreement with you , tonight maybe i can sleep easier - tomorrow will be a better day.
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4 to 11 to be the next manager to go. Not looking too good for him.
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The PL going rumours are spreading quicker than a tub of marg in a greenhouse.
Its all rubbish yet another example of social media hysteria another reason to regret the invention of Shitter, sorry Twitter
Some respected journalists are not in agreement with you , tonight maybe i can sleep easier - tomorrow will be a better day.
Which respected journalists have said PL is going?
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The PL going rumours are spreading quicker than a tub of marg in a greenhouse.
Its all rubbish yet another example of social media hysteria another reason to regret the invention of Shitter, sorry Twitter
Some respected journalists are not in agreement with you , tonight maybe i can sleep easier - tomorrow will be a better day.
Is the term "respected journalist" an oxymoron?
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The PL going rumours are spreading quicker than a tub of marg in a greenhouse.
Its all rubbish yet another example of social media hysteria another reason to regret the invention of Shitter, sorry Twitter
Some respected journalists are not in agreement with you , tonight maybe i can sleep easier - tomorrow will be a better day.
Links?
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The PL going rumours are spreading quicker than a tub of marg in a greenhouse.
Its all rubbish yet another example of social media hysteria another reason to regret the invention of Shitter, sorry Twitter
Some respected journalists are not in agreement with you , tonight maybe i can sleep easier - tomorrow will be a better day.
Is the term "respected journalist" an oxymoron?
Bog off smelly. Damon says that as well.
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The PL going rumours are spreading quicker than a tub of marg in a greenhouse.
Its all rubbish yet another example of social media hysteria another reason to regret the invention of Shitter, sorry Twitter
Some respected journalists are not in agreement with you , tonight maybe i can sleep easier - tomorrow will be a better day.
Name names then Eastie, who are your sources?
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It's going mad on twitter , bloody glen Roeder being touted . Got be bollocks
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It's going mad on twitter , bloody glen Roeder being touted . Got be bollocks
Fucking bollocks to Glen Roeder. If we're going to do some sort of panic sacking at least bring in a Villa man to give us some hope. It probably won't work but at least the fans will support it.
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He just looks like he's had the will sapped out of him.
Just like the fans on our coach on the way home.
Lambert out.
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It's on Twatter? Got to be bollocks.
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He just looks like he's had the will sapped out of him.
Just like the fans on our coach on the way home.
Lambert out.
First time I've seen this from you Pauline, obviously being at the game was it that bad?
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I don't see who can sort this pile of shit out without spending some cash.
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I don't see who can sort this pile of shit out without spending some cash.
Very true, but Lambert is doing an awful job.
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Gary Neville anybody?
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He just looks like he's had the will sapped out of him.
Just like the fans on our coach on the way home.
Lambert out.
First time I've seen this from you Pauline, obviously being at the game was it that bad?
Yes, it was. First half not too bad second half all over the place.
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It seems to be a horrible recurring theme.
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If he were replaced by Glen Roeder that would be the very bottom of the barrel.
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Gary Neville anybody?
Good shout.
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Lambert to manage the first half, anyone else to be in charge from the second the HT whistle goes.
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"You take your medicine, pick yourself up and go again. There's no way you can lie down."
Just can't get the image of PL sat in his darkened bedroom rocking backwards and forwards sat on the floor clutching his knees saying it
over and over....
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We need up and at em football, played at a high tempo, being lead from a midfield not giving the opposition time to squeeze out a sneaky fart let alone pass the ball. The best we have played in 3 years was under GMac, wonder what he is up to at the minute.
He was punditting a Villa game I watched on a dodgy stream in the last couple of weeks. Cant remember which game it was. But my first thought was wonder if he needs a job for 4 months. Him and an ex Villa defende, eg Laursen, would probably be a good caretaker option.
Failing that- where is DOL at the moment. We are desperate.
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Curbishley is out of work, give it to him. John Gregory even.
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Curbs saved West Ham from drop as I recall ,seen worse suggestions
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Christ almighty.
Curbishley? He who has been sat at home watching SSN for the last five years?
I understand people want the manager replaced, but surely if we're going to do that, it should be with someone who can bring about some sort of long term plan, rather than someone chosen on an emotional "well, they could hardly be worse" basis?
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Christ almighty.
Curbishley? He who has been sat at home watching SSN for the last five years?
I understand people want the manager replaced, but surely if we're going to do that, it should be with someone who can bring about some sort of long term plan, rather than someone chosen on an emotional "well, they could hardly be worse" basis?
Indeed and it's largely irrelevant without some new players. These players will be relegated whoever is the manager.
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Want some sort of Villa connection. The manager throughout the 90's did, and since Gregory they have all just used us for a payoff.
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Christ almighty.
Curbishley? He who has been sat at home watching SSN for the last five years?
I understand people want the manager replaced, but surely if we're going to do that, it should be with someone who can bring about some sort of long term plan, rather than someone chosen on an emotional "well, they could hardly be worse" basis?
Indeed and it's largely irrelevant without some new players. These players will be relegated whoever is the manager.
Exactly.
It's surely only a matter of time before someone starts calling for Avram "he almost won the champions league" Grant.
Lambert is a problem, clearly, but the bigger problem is the squad, and if the chairman won't do anything to improve it, we're fucked, regardless.
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Christ almighty.
Curbishley? He who has been sat at home watching SSN for the last five years?
I understand people want the manager replaced, but surely if we're going to do that, it should be with someone who can bring about some sort of long term plan, rather than someone chosen on an emotional "well, they could hardly be worse" basis?
He'd still do a better job than Lambert.
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Keeping Lambert is certain suicide, there's no belief left in either him or the squad. We need someone with a bit of fight, spirit and organisational ability. Neville isn't a bad shout actually.
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Christ almighty.
Curbishley? He who has been sat at home watching SSN for the last five years?
I understand people want the manager replaced, but surely if we're going to do that, it should be with someone who can bring about some sort of long term plan, rather than someone chosen on an emotional "well, they could hardly be worse" basis?
He'd still do a better job than Lambert.
And if Lambert is doing as bad a job as you think he is, that's utterly meaningless.
If we replace Lambert, we don't need someone who'll do "better", we need someone who'll do "good enough". Two totally different things.
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Christ almighty.
Curbishley? He who has been sat at home watching SSN for the last five years?
I understand people want the manager replaced, but surely if we're going to do that, it should be with someone who can bring about some sort of long term plan, rather than someone chosen on an emotional "well, they could hardly be worse" basis?
Indeed and it's largely irrelevant without some new players. These players will be relegated whoever is the manager.
Exactly.
It's surely only a matter of time before someone starts calling for Avram "he almost won the champions league" Grant.
Lambert is a problem, clearly, but the bigger problem is the squad, and if the chairman won't do anything to improve it, we're fucked, regardless.
It hasn't been unknown in the world of football for a new manager to come in and raise the game of even the most appalling squads of players.
I think most of us realise we're doomed to relegation under the hapless Lambert, so why not take a chance? It's worth a shot.
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Keeping Lambert is certain suicide, there's no belief left in either him or the squad. We need someone with a bit of fight, spirit and organisational ability. Neville isn't a bad shout actually.
Leaving my views on Lambert to one side, and ignoring the circumstances which have brought us here, I genuinely don't think there's a manager around who could turn this around.
We've been kidding ourselves about a few things for way too long. First among which is the quality of the kids coming through the academy.
Baker and Weimann look good enough. The rest of them have shown nothing like enough. You have to wonder about the likes of Bannan. He was starting matches under Houllier, two entire years ago, FFS.
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Christ almighty.
Curbishley? He who has been sat at home watching SSN for the last five years?
I understand people want the manager replaced, but surely if we're going to do that, it should be with someone who can bring about some sort of long term plan, rather than someone chosen on an emotional "well, they could hardly be worse" basis?
Indeed and it's largely irrelevant without some new players. These players will be relegated whoever is the manager.
Exactly.
It's surely only a matter of time before someone starts calling for Avram "he almost won the champions league" Grant.
Lambert is a problem, clearly, but the bigger problem is the squad, and if the chairman won't do anything to improve it, we're fucked, regardless.
It hasn't been unknown in the world of football for a new manager to come in and raise the game of even the most appalling squads of players.
I think most of us realise we're doomed to relegation under the hapless Lambert, so why not take a chance? It's worth a shot.
If we are going to take a shot, why not take one on the basis of something better than "he can't be any worse".
You are right, some times a new manager comes in and improves things, but generally that's because the new manager knows what he's doing, and not because he used to play for the club in question, or managed them 15 years ago.
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Christ almighty.
Curbishley? He who has been sat at home watching SSN for the last five years?
I understand people want the manager replaced, but surely if we're going to do that, it should be with someone who can bring about some sort of long term plan, rather than someone chosen on an emotional "well, they could hardly be worse" basis?
He'd still do a better job than Lambert.
And if Lambert is doing as bad a job as you think he is, that's utterly meaningless.
If we replace Lambert, we don't need someone who'll do "better", we need someone who'll do "good enough". Two totally different things.
He IS doing a bad job, that surely isn't up for debate?
I don't understand your second bit though. If we replace Lambert with someone who comes in and does better than him then surely he's good enough.
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This inaudible mumbling tactically clueless numpty bought into a vision of managing a rabble of cheap young championship quality players and turning them into Premier League standard team whilst competing with more experienced managers being bank rolled by owners who are prepared to compete financially on and off the pitch.
Lambert has set record after record of failings for Aston Villa in his short spell here, and made us a laughing stock with the most humiliating and embarrassing set of results I can remember in my time as a fan of this once great club. Keeping him as manager will only result in relegation, so unless the owners plan is to get relegated and let this club sink in the Championship then Lambert must go and be replaced...we've got absolutely nothing to lose by giving another manager the chance to rescue us from certain relegation.
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Christ almighty.
Curbishley? He who has been sat at home watching SSN for the last five years?
I understand people want the manager replaced, but surely if we're going to do that, it should be with someone who can bring about some sort of long term plan, rather than someone chosen on an emotional "well, they could hardly be worse" basis?
Indeed and it's largely irrelevant without some new players. These players will be relegated whoever is the manager.
Exactly.
It's surely only a matter of time before someone starts calling for Avram "he almost won the champions league" Grant.
Lambert is a problem, clearly, but the bigger problem is the squad, and if the chairman won't do anything to improve it, we're fucked, regardless.
It hasn't been unknown in the world of football for a new manager to come in and raise the game of even the most appalling squads of players.
I think most of us realise we're doomed to relegation under the hapless Lambert, so why not take a chance? It's worth a shot.
If we are going to take a shot, why not take one on the basis of something better than "he can't be any worse".
You are right, some times a new manager comes in and improves things, but generally that's because the new manager knows what he's doing, and not because he used to play for the club in question, or managed them 15 years ago.
Desperate times, desperate measures. I see nothing from Lambert that tells me he'll get us out of this diabolical mess, so it's time for a change. We could still have a chance of getting out of this god awful situation.
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Changing whoever coaches the defence is the most important change we could make right now.
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Christ almighty.
Curbishley? He who has been sat at home watching SSN for the last five years?
I understand people want the manager replaced, but surely if we're going to do that, it should be with someone who can bring about some sort of long term plan, rather than someone chosen on an emotional "well, they could hardly be worse" basis?
Indeed and it's largely irrelevant without some new players. These players will be relegated whoever is the manager.
Exactly.
It's surely only a matter of time before someone starts calling for Avram "he almost won the champions league" Grant.
Lambert is a problem, clearly, but the bigger problem is the squad, and if the chairman won't do anything to improve it, we're fucked, regardless.
It hasn't been unknown in the world of football for a new manager to come in and raise the game of even the most appalling squads of players.
I think most of us realise we're doomed to relegation under the hapless Lambert, so why not take a chance? It's worth a shot.
If we are going to take a shot, why not take one on the basis of something better than "he can't be any worse".
You are right, some times a new manager comes in and improves things, but generally that's because the new manager knows what he's doing, and not because he used to play for the club in question, or managed them 15 years ago.
Come on he has lost it.
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I don't understand your second bit though. If we replace Lambert with someone who comes in and does better than him then surely he's good enough.
Not at all.
What if he wins more matches than Lambert, but we still go down?
We don't just need to do less bad than we are now. We need to do *significantly* better.
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May as well stick it here as well (as the bishop said to the actress).
Paul Lambert said Villa will "take their medicine and go again" after his side's FA Cup defeat at the hands of Millwall.
Villa took the lead through Darren Bent before Danny Shittu headed the home side level before the break.
John Marquis put the London Lions into round five with just two minutes remaining.
But Lambert insisted there was no time for the team to feel sorry for themselves.
Lambert said: "It's not great, but you have to keep going.
"You take your medicine, pick yourself up and go again. There's no way you can lie down.
"I don't think we deserved to lose it, I didn't see that coming.
"We went 1-0 and conceded a goal from a corner again. It's individual errors that are hurting us at the minute.
"You've got to live with that, you've got to be prepared to be hurt in the penalty box.
"It's not been great but we had a lot of the ball. It's a game I thought neither team was going to win and I thought it was going to a replay."
Lambert felt his side bossed the game but he was frustrated to see yet another set-piece goal come into play during the match.
He added: "I was worried how they were going to react after the other night but they went and took the ball and gave it another go.
"But you can't defend set-pieces like that.
"We bossed it really, with the possession. It's individual errors that are costing us on set-pieces and the second goal was just a crossed ball and we should deal with that.
"I thought we showed grit. I thought we dominated the game and I never thought either team looked as if they were going to win it towards the end."
Lambert rested Christian Benteke and kept Gabby Agbonlahor on the bench with one eye on the big Barclays Premier League clash with Newcastle on Tuesday.
He added: "The lads have played a hell of a lot of games and we've not got the biggest of squads. You have to watch what you're doing.
"You can't make too many changes but the Premier League is the most important thing."
Lambert faces an anxious wait to see the extent of Fabian Delph's injury, after the midfielder limped off in the first-half.
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Christ almighty.
Curbishley? He who has been sat at home watching SSN for the last five years?
I understand people want the manager replaced, but surely if we're going to do that, it should be with someone who can bring about some sort of long term plan, rather than someone chosen on an emotional "well, they could hardly be worse" basis?
Indeed and it's largely irrelevant without some new players. These players will be relegated whoever is the manager.
Exactly.
It's surely only a matter of time before someone starts calling for Avram "he almost won the champions league" Grant.
Lambert is a problem, clearly, but the bigger problem is the squad, and if the chairman won't do anything to improve it, we're fucked, regardless.
It hasn't been unknown in the world of football for a new manager to come in and raise the game of even the most appalling squads of players.
I think most of us realise we're doomed to relegation under the hapless Lambert, so why not take a chance? It's worth a shot.
If we are going to take a shot, why not take one on the basis of something better than "he can't be any worse".
You are right, some times a new manager comes in and improves things, but generally that's because the new manager knows what he's doing, and not because he used to play for the club in question, or managed them 15 years ago.
Come on he has lost it.
Which is totally not the point in what I just said.
I didn't say anything about replacing Lambert or not, I was talking about the criteria we use to choose a replacement.
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Keeping Lambert is certain suicide
That's it. Depends whether you believe in life after death.(or not)
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For ages now the pro-lambert lobby have been saying who can we get better than Lambert and ridiculing any suggestions. I can't think of anoyne with a worse record of non-football as we've seen with lambert. If you've got the worse possible manager what's to lose? At least we may get a guy with a mind of his own who's not an extension of Lerner and bestest pals with him
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Personally, i don't know what would be best. Lambert has no idea how to raise his squad from the depths and his coaching team is as useful as a kick in the bollocks. But you sack him, you need to give the new man time, money and the opportunity to shape his squad. We can't offer a new coach any of that.
It's not so much the uselessness that's getting to me, it's the complete disregard for the club and its fans. I've given so much of my soul to Villa and it's not even dying on its knees - it's just fading away, meek and uncared for.
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If we are going to take a shot, why not take one on the basis of something better than "he can't be any worse".
It's no more ridiculous - in fact it's a lot less ridiculous - than wanting the current manager to stay out of fear of who the owner might appoint next. And it's a lot less ridiculous than taking into account our form, our squad, and our manager's inability to get anything out of them and deciding that doing absolutely nothing is the correct approach.
Not that I'm saying you necessarily adhere to either of those views but that seems to be where we are right now.
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For ages now the pro-lambert lobby have been saying who can we get better than Lambert and ridiculing any suggestions. I can't think of anoyne with a worse record of non-football as we've seen with lambert. If you've got the worse possible manager what's to lose? At least we may get a guy with a mind of his own who's not an extension of Lerner and bestest pals with him
I am extremely drunk, but I am sure there is a flaw in that argument somewhere.
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The flaw is that it's utter bollocks.
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For ages now the pro-lambert lobby have been saying who can we get better than Lambert and ridiculing any suggestions. I can't think of anoyne with a worse record of non-football as we've seen with lambert. If you've got the worse possible manager what's to lose? At least we may get a guy with a mind of his own who's not an extension of Lerner and bestest pals with him
I am extremely drunk, but I am sure there is a flaw in that argument somewhere.
plenty of clubs employ non-yesmen. Even we have. Depends how desperate we are to stay up. If we're not then i'm sure lerner will choose another Lambchop/TSM
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For ages now the pro-lambert lobby have been saying who can we get better than Lambert and ridiculing any suggestions. I can't think of anoyne with a worse record of non-football as we've seen with lambert. If you've got the worse possible manager what's to lose? At least we may get a guy with a mind of his own who's not an extension of Lerner and bestest pals with him
I am extremely drunk, but I am sure there is a flaw in that argument somewhere.
plenty of clubs employ non-yesmen. Even we have. Depends how desperate we are to stay up. If we're not then i'm sure lerner will choose another Lambchop/TSM
So Lerner needs to employ a No man or non-yesman. Or a definitely maybe real nowhere man, living in his nowhere land with nobody.
That's it, right there. The flaw, that is. I don't think Randy would like that.
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For ages now the pro-lambert lobby have been saying who can we get better than Lambert and ridiculing any suggestions. I can't think of anoyne with a worse record of non-football as we've seen with lambert. If you've got the worse possible manager what's to lose? At least we may get a guy with a mind of his own who's not an extension of Lerner and bestest pals with him
I am extremely drunk, but I am sure there is a flaw in that argument somewhere.
plenty of clubs employ non-yesmen. Even we have. Depends how desperate we are to stay up. If we're not then i'm sure lerner will choose another Lambchop/TSM
So Lerner needs to employ a No man or non-yesman. Or a definitely maybe real nowhere man, living in his nowhere land with nobody.
That's it, right there. The flaw, that is. I don't think Randy would like that.
Lerner's done it his way with the last two disasters in the managers seat. Now if he's not bothered with relegation then pick another personality-free stooge like Lambchop or keep him, but it won't keep us up. Basically anyone who agrees with his kids 'plan' is doomed because the plan is wrong.
Now if Lerner is bothered about relegation then he needs to realise he's wrong and pick a manager who has got a plan for the future because the chairman running the footballing side for the manager is never a good idea.
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Why would Lerner sack a manager only to have to pay off his contract with the money he refused to back him with?
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Why would Lerner sack a manager only to have to pay off his contract with the money he refused to back him with?
Indeed.
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Why would Lerner sack a manager only to have to pay off his contract with the money he refused to back him with?
Presumably because a 10m payoff now is better than losing 60m in the summer? I agree that sort of logic doesn't seem to be Randy's "thing".
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Maybe someone already suggested this but......
enough of the Curbishly /Gregory B*llocks.....
What about Di Matteo?
(I admit, I've had a pop or two)
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He's going nowhere. We are. Down. Goodnight.
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Maybe someone already suggested this but......
enough of the Curbishly /Gregory B*llocks.....
What about Di Matteo?
(I admit, I've had a pop or two)
He's quite shrewd i reckon. Presented with Randy's Ajax of the midlands plan, i think he'd run a mile as Martinez did. Only the desperate or the thick go for it
(And before anyone starts, only a total imbecile would believe Martinez turned us down before speaking to us)
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He's gotta go. You can't preside over the month we've just had and keep your job. The problem is (and it makes me want to weep) that I don't think a new manager can save us, we don't have time (and probably the money) to bring in new players, the existing players aren't good enough to keep us up and any new manager will probably be sought from the very lowest tier of possible choices. It is just so sad.
Just what have we done collectively as a group of supporters to deserve the last three seasons? I just want it to stop.
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He's gotta go. You can't preside over the month we've just had and keep your job. The problem is (and it makes me want to weep) that I don't think a new manager can save us, we don't have time (and probably the money) to bring in new players, the existing players aren't good enough to keep us up and any new manager will probably be sought from the very lowest tier of possible choices. It is just so sad.
Just what have we done collectively as a group of supporters to deserve the last three seasons? I just want it to stop.
For a youngster, you talk a lot of sense. I didn't agree this time last week, but I HAVE To now.
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He just looks like he's had the will sapped out of him.
Just like the fans on our coach on the way home.
Lambert out.
First time I've seen this from you Pauline, obviously being at the game was it that bad?
Yes, it was. First half not too bad second half all over the place.
Not long got home. Shattered.
Tomorrow, I may pick myself up and go again.
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Development??
@7govscott: @PeteSmithBBC hearing that Lambert could be replaced by Glenn Roeder tomorrow! If correct that would be an incredible appointment by #AVFC
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Development??
@7govscott: @PeteSmithBBC hearing that Lambert could be replaced by Glenn Roeder tomorrow! If correct that would be an incredible appointment by #AVFC
Glen Roeder- well he has one relegation already I suppose
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Anybody but Lambert right now.
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Development??
@7govscott: @PeteSmithBBC hearing that Lambert could be replaced by Glenn Roeder tomorrow! If correct that would be an incredible appointment by #AVFC
Glen Roeder- well he has one relegation already I suppose
Who is this pete smith at the bbc?
Certainly a joe kinnear type of appointment if it did happen but to be honest roeder couldnt do worse than this guy - do it and lets move on - with lambert we are dead and buried.
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Development??
@7govscott: @PeteSmithBBC hearing that Lambert could be replaced by Glenn Roeder tomorrow! If correct that would be an incredible appointment by #AVFC
Glen Roeder- well he has one relegation already I suppose
Certainly a joe kinnear type of appointment if it did happen but to be honest roeder couldnt do worse than this guy - do it and lets move on - with lambert we are dead and buried.
And then who at the start of next season? And then who after 4 months when we are mid table in the Championship. And then who when we don't make the playoffs.
We are going down unless we reincarnate Stein and Clough in the next few days.
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Development??
@7govscott: @PeteSmithBBC hearing that Lambert could be replaced by Glenn Roeder tomorrow! If correct that would be an incredible appointment by #AVFC
Glen Roeder- well he has one relegation already I suppose
Who is this pete smith at the bbc?
Certainly a joe kinnear type of appointment if it did happen but to be honest roeder couldnt do worse than this guy - do it and lets move on - with lambert we are dead and buried.
Sadly I feel it is too late - we are already dead & buried. Lerner knows it, Faulkner knows it & Lambert knows it. Therefore no one will get sacked & we will just keep going being an average team on a low wage bill in the championship.
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Development??
@7govscott: @PeteSmithBBC hearing that Lambert could be replaced by Glenn Roeder tomorrow! If correct that would be an incredible appointment by #AVFC
Glen Roeder- well he has one relegation already I suppose
Certainly a joe kinnear type of appointment if it did happen but to be honest roeder couldnt do worse than this guy - do it and lets move on - with lambert we are dead and buried.
And then who at the start of next season? And then who after 4 months when we are mid table in the Championship. And then who when we don't make the playoffs.
We are going down unless we reincarnate Stein and Clough in the next few days.
If you have the right man you keep him, but if you have the wrong man you dont bury your head in the sand and pretend it will all be ok - it takes balls to admit it was a mistake , but randy must show those balls and we move on with a new man - you cant keep sacking managers but when someone fucks up as spectacularly as lambert has then action has be taken fast .
Ive seen the turners, mcneills, mcleishs etc but this manager tops them all - he is a disaster.
Randy will not get blamed for appointing lambert but its all crashed down and none of us could have foreseen such a dreadful season.
I expect the old mutual agreement line to be trotted out .
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Development??
@7govscott: @PeteSmithBBC hearing that Lambert could be replaced by Glenn Roeder tomorrow! If correct that would be an incredible appointment by #AVFC
Glen Roeder- well he has one relegation already I suppose
Who is this pete smith at the bbc?
Certainly a joe kinnear type of appointment if it did happen but to be honest roeder couldnt do worse than this guy - do it and lets move on - with lambert we are dead and buried.
Sadly I feel it is too late - we are already dead & buried. Lerner knows it, Faulkner knows it & Lambert knows it. Therefore no one will get sacked & we will just keep going being an average team on a low wage bill in the championship.
Low wage - I doubt it. Given, Ireland, Hutton, CNZ all have plenty of time left on their contract an no one will buy them - at a rough calculation about 12m a year for a couple of years at least. Nothing low about that.
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Development??
@7govscott: @PeteSmithBBC hearing that Lambert could be replaced by Glenn Roeder tomorrow! If correct that would be an incredible appointment by #AVFC
Glen Roeder- well he has one relegation already I suppose
Who is this pete smith at the bbc?
Certainly a joe kinnear type of appointment if it did happen but to be honest roeder couldnt do worse than this guy - do it and lets move on - with lambert we are dead and buried.
Sadly I feel it is too late - we are already dead & buried. Lerner knows it, Faulkner knows it & Lambert knows it. Therefore no one will get sacked & we will just keep going being an average team on a low wage bill in the championship.
Low wage - I doubt it. Given, Ireland, Hutton, CNZ all have plenty of time left on their contract an no one will buy them - at a rough calculation about 12m a year for a couple of years at least. Nothing low about that.
They'all be off as soon as season ends!
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Development??
@7govscott: @PeteSmithBBC hearing that Lambert could be replaced by Glenn Roeder tomorrow! If correct that would be an incredible appointment by #AVFC
Glen Roeder- well he has one relegation already I suppose
Certainly a joe kinnear type of appointment if it did happen but to be honest roeder couldnt do worse than this guy - do it and lets move on - with lambert we are dead and buried.
And then who at the start of next season? And then who after 4 months when we are mid table in the Championship. And then who when we don't make the playoffs.
We are going down unless we reincarnate Stein and Clough in the next few days.
If you have the right man you keep him, but if you have the wrong man you dont bury your head in the sand and pretend it will all be ok - it takes balls to admit it was a mistake , but randy must show those balls and we move on with a new man - you cant keep sacking managers but when someone fucks up as spectacularly as lambert has then action has be taken fast .
Fair point but you didn't answer my question(s), the 1-2m on compensation notwithstanding.
Who after Roeder (if it is him) or Sid and then who after him (Megson?) and who after him because that will be the reality (ala Coventry, Leicester and Sheff Wed) shy on the Premier Season ending now.
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Development??
@7govscott: @PeteSmithBBC hearing that Lambert could be replaced by Glenn Roeder tomorrow! If correct that would be an incredible appointment by #AVFC
Glen Roeder- well he has one relegation already I suppose
Who is this pete smith at the bbc?
Certainly a joe kinnear type of appointment if it did happen but to be honest roeder couldnt do worse than this guy - do it and lets move on - with lambert we are dead and buried.
Sadly I feel it is too late - we are already dead & buried. Lerner knows it, Faulkner knows it & Lambert knows it. Therefore no one will get sacked & we will just keep going being an average team on a low wage bill in the championship.
Low wage - I doubt it. Given, Ireland, Hutton, CNZ all have plenty of time left on their contract an no one will buy them - at a rough calculation about 12m a year for a couple of years at least. Nothing low about that.
They'all be off as soon as season ends!
Really? Who is going to pay them comparable wages? Not as if any of them are playing regularly now to put themselves in the shop window? We may get a mug punter for CNZ. The others no way - Shays retirement fund, Ireland doesn't look as if he likes playing football for anyone and Hutton isn't good enough to play parks football
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Development??
@7govscott: @PeteSmithBBC hearing that Lambert could be replaced by Glenn Roeder tomorrow! If correct that would be an incredible appointment by #AVFC
Glen Roeder- well he has one relegation already I suppose
Certainly a joe kinnear type of appointment if it did happen but to be honest roeder couldnt do worse than this guy - do it and lets move on - with lambert we are dead and buried.
And then who at the start of next season? And then who after 4 months when we are mid table in the Championship. And then who when we don't make the playoffs.
We are going down unless we reincarnate Stein and Clough in the next few days.
If you have the right man you keep him, but if you have the wrong man you dont bury your head in the sand and pretend it will all be ok - it takes balls to admit it was a mistake , but randy must show those balls and we move on with a new man - you cant keep sacking managers but when someone fucks up as spectacularly as lambert has then action has be taken fast .
Fair point but you didn't answer my question(s), the 1-2m on compensation notwithstanding.
Who after Roeder (if it is him) or Sid and then who after him (Megson?) and who after him because that will be the reality (ala Coventry, Leicester and Sheff Wed) shy on the Premier Season ending now.
£2m compensation or a loss of £70m plus in tv rights ? Get rid !
As for who in the summer , we will deal with that at the time , gus poyet ?
If we get the right man we will keep him - lambert has been a disaster , he is clearly the wrong man and must go .
That does not mean the next man will not be right for us , thats football.
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We need a reincarnation of Sir Graham Taylor, a hard talking no nonsense manager who will come in and drag the club back in the right direction.
It is quite obvious that we don't have problems just on the playing front. The club back in '87 was a mess, but I don't think we are anywhere near as bad as then. We need to replace PF with a football/money man. I have no idea who that is but this PF seems a joke.
I thought Lambert was stronger minded than this, but something has gone within himself. The problem is there are not many candidates out there who have the bollocks to come in and tell Randy it is not just a problem on the pitch. Well if they did he would not employ them anyway.
We seem doomed.
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We need a reincarnation of Sir Graham Taylor, a hard talking no nonsense manager who will come in and drag the club back in the right direction.
It is quite obvious that we don't have problems just on the playing front. The club back in '87 was a mess, but I don't think we are anywhere near as bad as then. We need to replace PF with a football/money man. I have no idea who that is but this PF seems a joke.
I thought Lambert was stronger minded than this, but something has gone within himself. The problem is there are not many candidates out there who have the bollocks to come in and tell Randy it is not just a problem on the pitch. Well if they did he would not employ them anyway.
We seem doomed.
I first had my doubts about him when he came out with that line about there being no difference in how he treated the team if we won or lost. I can't see winners like Ferguson taking a similar stance somehow.
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We need a reincarnation of Sir Graham Taylor, a hard talking no nonsense manager who will come in and drag the club back in the right direction.
It is quite obvious that we don't have problems just on the playing front. The club back in '87 was a mess, but I don't think we are anywhere near as bad as then. We need to replace PF with a football/money man. I have no idea who that is but this PF seems a joke.
I thought Lambert was stronger minded than this, but something has gone within himself. The problem is there are not many candidates out there who have the bollocks to come in and tell Randy it is not just a problem on the pitch. Well if they did he would not employ them anyway.
We seem doomed.
Yes a taylor like figure in the boardroom , and a taylor like manager too- but with an owner as clueless as lerner who would indeed want to come.
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Development??
@7govscott: @PeteSmithBBC hearing that Lambert could be replaced by Glenn Roeder tomorrow! If correct that would be an incredible appointment by #AVFC
Glen Roeder- well he has one relegation already I suppose
Certainly a joe kinnear type of appointment if it did happen but to be honest roeder couldnt do worse than this guy - do it and lets move on - with lambert we are dead and buried.
And then who at the start of next season? And then who after 4 months when we are mid table in the Championship. And then who when we don't make the playoffs.
We are going down unless we reincarnate Stein and Clough in the next few days.
If you have the right man you keep him, but if you have the wrong man you dont bury your head in the sand and pretend it will all be ok - it takes balls to admit it was a mistake , but randy must show those balls and we move on with a new man - you cant keep sacking managers but when someone fucks up as spectacularly as lambert has then action has be taken fast .
Fair point but you didn't answer my question(s), the 1-2m on compensation notwithstanding.
Who after Roeder (if it is him) or Sid and then who after him (Megson?) and who after him because that will be the reality (ala Coventry, Leicester and Sheff Wed) shy on the Premier Season ending now.
£2m compensation or a loss of £70m plus in tv rights ? Get rid !
As for who in the summer , we will deal with that at the time , gus poyet ?
If we get the right man we will keep him - lambert has been a disaster , he is clearly the wrong man and must go .
That does not mean the next man will not be right for us , thats football.
If we get the right man is - like the last 3.
We dealt with 'the summer' the last 2/3 summers
There is a huge assumption that whoever replaces him will keep us up. I don't think that will happen based on who we could realistically get in.
Poyet - yep this season's Lambert/Adkins/Rodgers. He won't come now and I doubt he will come in the summer.
Personally I think he has done very well at Brighton. No way would he join us now - likely he could get a Top League job in the summer with a stable club not the poisoned chalice car crash that is Villa at the moment.
Roeder, Megson, Phil Browne or Curbs/RDM if we are lucky. maybe one of them could keep us up. I doubt it.
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The point is though rob as you say maybe one of those could keep us up, i dont think lambert could though.
Hindsight is a great thing , maybe somewhere there is a laudrup type manager out there - as you rightly point out though we are not exactly an attractive proposition and who of any quality would want the job ?
Maybe we could attract someone short term now such as magath or rikjeaerd on a huge financial bonus for keeping us up , who knows , but this situation cannot continue.
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They know Glen as well don't they from when he was scouting
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They know Glen as well don't they from when he was scouting
Bit dour but a good organiser and with good contacts in the game - not inspiring but beggars cant be choosers.
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I like Paul Lambert and wanted him to succeed like most of us did but enough is enough, if we have any chance of turning this round he has to be removed today. The board are not backing him in the transfer market so we are stuck with the players we have already and they need a lift from somewhere. A new man would freshen up the training, maybe give confidence to players not performing and possibly get us the wins we need to stay up. They might spot a player in the reserves (Carruthers?) that Lambert has overlooked to galvanise the team similar to what SGT did with Tommy Hitz. If they did it today we'd have two training sessions before the Newcastle game, has to be done if they do nothing we're finished.
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He's going nowhere. We are. Down. Goodnight.
He's going nowhere. We are not down, there are still 15 league games to play for Christ sake, that's 40% of the league programme. Good Morning.
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He's going nowhere. We are. Down. Goodnight.
He's going nowhere. We are not down, there are still 15 league games to play for Christ sake, that's 40% of the league programme. Good Morning.
Just enough time then for someone to come in and possibly save us .
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Are you really 47 Eastie?
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I have always been a fan of Lambo, he has built an incredibly strong team at Norwich in three seasons, taking over the day after the canaries had lost 7-1 with Lambert's former club Colchester.
But THIS Paul Lambert looks as the double of THAT Paul Lambert. For instance, Paul Lambert's Norwich conceded the lowest % of goals from set-pieces in 2011-12, Aston Villa the highest (47%).
Apart from the fact that our midfield is the weakest ever, this Villa don't have even the clue of a defensive organization. Since the Chelsea defeat the team deeped in a crisis of mistrust that Lambert hasn't been able to manage.
But I don't blame Randy for this. Everyone that now blames him was happy for signign Lambo and we must not forget thet the chairman pays 80000 £ a week for players like Stephen Ireland.
It's quite clear that we must do deep changes if we want to avoid relegation. But I still would prefer to be relegated with this Villa, run by people that love the club, than to play in champions league with a club that sells its roots and identity to a russian billionaire
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Are you really 47 Eastie?
I want lambert out - you want lambert in - accept it and get over it - dont start your insults hoppo- ive seen the way you talk to others, and quite frankly am surprised you havent been banned.
You have your view - i have mine !
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They know Glen as well don't they from when he was scouting
Bit dour but a good organiser and with good contacts in the game - not inspiring but beggars cant be choosers.
Eastie I hope you soon come to terms with the fact that Lambert is not going to be removed/leave his job.
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They know Glen as well don't they from when he was scouting
Bit dour but a good organiser and with good contacts in the game - not inspiring but beggars cant be choosers.
Eastie I hope you soon come to terms with the fact that Lambert is not going to be removed/leave his job.
Dont worry i will be here long after lerner and lambert have deserted this sorry mess .
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He's going nowhere. We are. Down. Goodnight.
He's going nowhere. We are not down, there are still 15 league games to play for Christ sake, that's 40% of the league programme. Good Morning.
Just enough time then for someone to come in and possibly save us .
I wouldn't argue with the fact that a 15 game programme is a reasonable time frame for a coach to have an effect on a squad of players. The problem for you Eastie is that the man in charge for those 15 games will be Paul Lambert.
-
He's going nowhere. We are. Down. Goodnight.
He's going nowhere. We are not down, there are still 15 league games to play for Christ sake, that's 40% of the league programme. Good Morning.
Just enough time then for someone to come in and possibly save us .
I wouldn't argue with the fact that a 15 game programme is a reasonable time frame for a coach to have an effect on a squad of players. The problem for you Eastie is that the man in charge for those 15 games will be Paul Lambert.
Not the problem for me pal, the problem for aston villa - its lerners money down the pan , not mine.
Maybe you would like to inform why you are so happy for mr lambert to remain?
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They know Glen as well don't they from when he was scouting
Bit dour but a good organiser and with good contacts in the game - not inspiring but beggars cant be choosers.
Eastie I hope you soon come to terms with the fact that Lambert is not going to be removed/leave his job.
Yeah,
we heard all that same talk last season with TSM, he was here for the long term, he wasn't going anywhere, posters exactly like you telling us that it was a FACT that he 'wasn't going anywhere'
No doubt you were one of them that got it wrong
Turns out it was a load of bollocks just like your post,
The tin tack can't be far of now,
there is always a tipping point and that might well have come and gone already, even so if the decline continues for another couple of matches there is no way he can hang on, no matter what your fact post says
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Exactly mcleish was still telling all and sundry he was planning for the summer blissfully unaware he was being sacked hours later .
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Paul Lambert, 'I'm no quitter'. You may not be in terms of resigning, but you've given up all effort to try and deal with our problems.
-
He's going nowhere. We are. Down. Goodnight.
He's going nowhere. We are not down, there are still 15 league games to play for Christ sake, that's 40% of the league programme. Good Morning.
Just enough time then for someone to come in and possibly save us .
I wouldn't argue with the fact that a 15 game programme is a reasonable time frame for a coach to have an effect on a squad of players. The problem for you Eastie is that the man in charge for those 15 games will be Paul Lambert.
Not the problem for me pal, the problem for aston villa - its lerners money down the pan , not mine.
Maybe you would like to inform why you are so happy for mr lambert to remain?
Because I believe that the 15 games that remain is more than enough for us to get over the line and that he will manage the team into a survival position by the end of the season. I also think that getting Dunne back into the team, which is going to happen over the next week or so, will help with organisation and leadership on the pitch during games. I am also not convinced based on what I see with my own eyes that the five teams who are likely to be battling it out with us are going to achieve significantly better results over the 15 game programme. Take Reading as an example they have been totally outplayed in their last two PL games, battered by both West Brom and Newcastle but yet managed to win not through their own ability but through a combination of pure fluke and their opponents failures. Southampton likewise their results away at Villa and home v Everton were results achieved against the run of play and not deserved on the quality of their play. Wigan will always hover down their they are not capable of stringing a run together either. It will be a great scrap over the next few months and I would stick with PL because I am sure he can get us safe but I admit it will be 17th or 16th at best, not great, not in the plan but good enough for us to take stock and move forward.
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It's hard to still back him, but I still do. Normally I'm one of the first to get irritated by managers, but not this time around. It's obvious this team needs some older heads in it. Yesterday was the last wake up call. Either we address it over the coming days, either it will be a long journey till the end of the season.
Some fans may be resigned to going down, but I'm not. I can't be there every game due to location but rest assured the team still gets me 100% backing. This fragile team will need all the support they can get. The fans have been top draw till now, let's continue our support and hope for the best.
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He's going nowhere. We are. Down. Goodnight.
He's going nowhere. We are not down, there are still 15 league games to play for Christ sake, that's 40% of the league programme. Good Morning.
Just enough time then for someone to come in and possibly save us .
I wouldn't argue with the fact that a 15 game programme is a reasonable time frame for a coach to have an effect on a squad of players. The problem for you Eastie is that the man in charge for those 15 games will be Paul Lambert.
Not the problem for me pal, the problem for aston villa - its lerners money down the pan , not mine.
Maybe you would like to inform why you are so happy for mr lambert to remain?
Because I believe that the 15 games that remain is more than enough for us to get over the line and that he will manage the team into a survival position by the end of the season. I also think that getting Dunne back into the team, which is going to happen over the next week or so, will help with organisation and leadership on the pitch during games. I am also not convinced based on what I see with my own eyes that the five teams who are likely to be battling it out with us are going to achieve significantly better results over the 15 game programme. Take Reading as an example they have been totally outplayed in their last two PL games, battered by both West Brom and Newcastle but yet managed to win not through their own ability but through a combination of pure fluke and their opponents failures. Southampton likewise their results away at Villa and home v Everton were results achieved against the run of play and not deserved on the quality of their play. Wigan will always hover down their they are not capable of stringing a run together either. It will be a great scrap over the next few months and I would stick with PL because I am sure he can get us safe but I admit it will be 17th or 16th at best, not great, not in the plan but good enough for us to take stock and move forward.
The teams around us are all strengthening , and also picking up points and some momentum- we are hurtling the other way , dunne will not make that much difference if fit , we are a very poor side .
We have won 5 of our last 40 league games, have an appalling goal difference and a manager who has lost the plot - we are not going to stay up with paul lambert , but i accept your opinion and we will agree to differ .
-
They know Glen as well don't they from when he was scouting
Bit dour but a good organiser and with good contacts in the game - not inspiring but beggars cant be choosers.
Eastie I hope you soon come to terms with the fact that Lambert is not going to be removed/leave his job.
Yeah,
we heard all that same talk last season with TSM, he was here for the long term, he wasn't going anywhere, posters exactly like you telling us that it was a FACT that he 'wasn't going anywhere'
No doubt you were one of them that got it wrong
Turns out it was a load of bollocks just like your post,
The tin tack can't be far of now,
there is always a tipping point and that might well have come and gone already, even so if the decline continues for another couple of matches there is no way he can hang on, no matter what your fact post says
Hi john e. The point I am making is that I don't believe he will be sacked during the season that's all. I was in favour of removing TSM at the end of last season, at the Bolton game I told my son that my belief was that that night the board would have made up their mind that he would be replaced. They subsequently allowed him to take us through to the end of the season then got rid as I fully expected.
The same may happen this season. Our debates are an exchange of opinion, nothing more nothing less. I enjoy reading others thoughts and expressions of frustration and ideas for what they think should happen that's why I spend time on here just like you. I don't mind others calling for PL to be sacked but just wish that everybody who does that would qualify their call by including their choice of replacement, the problem is most don't. With the opportunity for altering the squad rapidly diminishing any replacement would have to work with what we already have at the club and that is another reason for my personal choice which is to give him until the end of the season then reappraise the situation. I fully respect your and everybody else's right to disagree with that opinion and express that disagreement vehemently but politely within this forum.
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He's going nowhere. We are. Down. Goodnight.
He's going nowhere. We are not down, there are still 15 league games to play for Christ sake, that's 40% of the league programme. Good Morning.
If we can only win 4 out of 23 games, how on earth are we going to win 6 out of 15 with confidence now at an all time low? The only option for me to galvanise us in the short term is a change of manager, even if its just a temporary 6 month job just to get us out of the shit.
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Only a new guy who's not following "The Plan" can save us now. Just listen to the Doogan fellah on that interview and he's spouting the same bollocks about the youth acadamy with young players to supplement them that Faulkner was coming out with years back, long before Lampchop joined. Sounds like another one of Lerner's obsessions with Man United. Yes the guy thinks he's magically going to build a top team out of our youth like his favourite team in Manchester.
We need a guy who's only brief is to keep us up, none of this youth bollocks, just keep us up using whoever he thinks can do it. If Lerner allows that then we've got a chance. Otherwise pffftttt..
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Eastie I hope you soon come to terms with the fact that Lambert is not going to be removed/leave his job.
[/quote]
The thing there though is you are not saying its your opinion you are stating it as a fact .
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Only a new guy who's not following "The Plan" can save us now. Just listen to the Doogan fellah on that interview and he's spouting the same bollocks about the youth acadamy with young players to supplement them that Faulkner was coming out with years back, long before Lampchop joined. Sounds like another one of Lerner's obsessions with Man United. Yes the guy thinks he's magically going to build a top team out of our youth like his favourite team in Manchester.
We need a guy who's only brief is to keep us up, none of this youth bollocks, just keep us up using whoever he thinks can do it. If Lerner allows that then we've got a chance. Otherwise pffftttt..
Correct greg, if it takes a huge offer of a big bonus to keep us up we may attract someone in, even on an interim basis.
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He's going nowhere. We are. Down. Goodnight.
He's going nowhere. We are not down, there are still 15 league games to play for Christ sake, that's 40% of the league programme. Good Morning.
If we can only win 4 out of 23 games, how on earth are we going to win 6 out of 15 with confidence now at an all time low? The only option for me to galvanise us in the short term is a change of manager, even if its just a temporary 6 month job just to get us out of the shit.
we will be lucky to win 3 . gutted
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Only a new guy who's not following "The Plan" can save us now. Just listen to the Doogan fellah on that interview and he's spouting the same bollocks about the youth acadamy with young players to supplement them that Faulkner was coming out with years back, long before Lampchop joined. Sounds like another one of Lerner's obsessions with Man United. Yes the guy thinks he's magically going to build a top team out of our youth like his favourite team in Manchester.
We need a guy who's only brief is to keep us up, none of this youth bollocks, just keep us up using whoever he thinks can do it. If Lerner allows that then we've got a chance. Otherwise pffftttt..
Correct greg, if it takes a huge offer of a big bonus to keep us up we may attract someone in, even on an interim basis.
I'd prefer an interim boss. Give him til the end of season and if he keeps us up give him the job. A successful campaign would also give him some leverage over Lerner with regards to money this summer. Lampchop is so indebted to Lerner he's never going to do anything that rocks the boat.
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He's going nowhere. We are. Down. Goodnight.
He's going nowhere. We are not down, there are still 15 league games to play for Christ sake, that's 40% of the league programme. Good Morning.
Just enough time then for someone to come in and possibly save us .
I wouldn't argue with the fact that a 15 game programme is a reasonable time frame for a coach to have an effect on a squad of players. The problem for you Eastie is that the man in charge for those 15 games will be Paul Lambert.
Not the problem for me pal, the problem for aston villa - its lerners money down the pan , not mine.
Maybe you would like to inform why you are so happy for mr lambert to remain?
Because I believe that the 15 games that remain is more than enough for us to get over the line and that he will manage the team into a survival position by the end of the season. I also think that getting Dunne back into the team, which is going to happen over the next week or so, will help with organisation and leadership on the pitch during games. I am also not convinced based on what I see with my own eyes that the five teams who are likely to be battling it out with us are going to achieve significantly better results over the 15 game programme. Take Reading as an example they have been totally outplayed in their last two PL games, battered by both West Brom and Newcastle but yet managed to win not through their own ability but through a combination of pure fluke and their opponents failures. Southampton likewise their results away at Villa and home v Everton were results achieved against the run of play and not deserved on the quality of their play. Wigan will always hover down their they are not capable of stringing a run together either. It will be a great scrap over the next few months and I would stick with PL because I am sure he can get us safe but I admit it will be 17th or 16th at best, not great, not in the plan but good enough for us to take stock and move forward.
They know Glen as well don't they from when he was scouting
Bit dour but a good organiser and with good contacts in the game - not inspiring but beggars cant be choosers.
Eastie I hope you soon come to terms with the fact that Lambert is not going to be removed/leave his job.
Yeah,
we heard all that same talk last season with TSM, he was here for the long term, he wasn't going anywhere, posters exactly like you telling us that it was a FACT that he 'wasn't going anywhere'
No doubt you were one of them that got it wrong
Turns out it was a load of bollocks just like your post,
The tin tack can't be far of now,
there is always a tipping point and that might well have come and gone already, even so if the decline continues for another couple of matches there is no way he can hang on, no matter what your fact post says
Hi john e. The point I am making is that I don't believe he will be sacked during the season that's all. I was in favour of removing TSM at the end of last season, at the Bolton game I told my son that my belief was that that night the board would have made up their mind that he would be replaced. They subsequently allowed him to take us through to the end of the season then got rid as I fully expected.
The same may happen this season. Our debates are an exchange of opinion, nothing more nothing less. I enjoy reading others thoughts and expressions of frustration and ideas for what they think should happen that's why I spend time on here just like you. I don't mind others calling for PL to be sacked but just wish that everybody who does that would qualify their call by including their choice of replacement, the problem is most don't. With the opportunity for altering the squad rapidly diminishing any replacement would have to work with what we already have at the club and that is another reason for my personal choice which is to give him until the end of the season then reappraise the situation. I fully respect your and everybody else's right to disagree with that opinion and express that disagreement vehemently but politely within this forum.
I've always been a strong supporter of giving Lambert more time,
I'm probably 50-50 now
Mainly because I fear who we will end up with and just keep going round in circles, 'anyone but Lambert' is a hollow cry for me as the same posters who say it were saying the exact same thing last season about TSM,
The last 30 mins against Bradford was a bit of a turning point for me, Lambert showed he really doesn't know what to do in a crisis, and seems not to be able to do anything about the downward spiral we are currently going through.
However, we have at times this season played some really good stuff, against Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, first halves here and there, some of it better than anything Mcliesh served up, that's why I still think there is a big difference between the two
I also think he is stubborn, especially in the transfer market,
So there is pros and cons for me, that's why I'm 50-50, I'm not exactly calling for his head but wouldn't be surprised if his time was up, his replacement is more of a worry for me
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Sorry for the massive quotation there, something went wrong, my fault
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Lambert staying or going is unimportant. The most important thing is to bring in three experienced players: the defensive midfielders and a central defender. The second priority is to bring in someone who can organise the team defensively. It doesn't have to be a new manager; a defensive coach who will work on the basics can improve things in a pretty short time.
If we manage that, I think the likes of N'Zogbia, Ireland, Gabby, Weimann, Benteke and Bent actually have enough quality to create and score goals to keep us up.
We're still above the relegation zone -- just.
-
He's going nowhere. We are. Down. Goodnight.
He's going nowhere. We are not down, there are still 15 league games to play for Christ sake, that's 40% of the league programme. Good Morning.
Just enough time then for someone to come in and possibly save us .
I wouldn't argue with the fact that a 15 game programme is a reasonable time frame for a coach to have an effect on a squad of players. The problem for you Eastie is that the man in charge for those 15 games will be Paul Lambert.
Not the problem for me pal, the problem for aston villa - its lerners money down the pan , not mine.
Maybe you would like to inform why you are so happy for mr lambert to remain?
Because I believe that the 15 games that remain is more than enough for us to get over the line and that he will manage the team into a survival position by the end of the season. I also think that getting Dunne back into the team, which is going to happen over the next week or so, will help with organisation and leadership on the pitch during games. I am also not convinced based on what I see with my own eyes that the five teams who are likely to be battling it out with us are going to achieve significantly better results over the 15 game programme. Take Reading as an example they have been totally outplayed in their last two PL games, battered by both West Brom and Newcastle but yet managed to win not through their own ability but through a combination of pure fluke and their opponents failures. Southampton likewise their results away at Villa and home v Everton were results achieved against the run of play and not deserved on the quality of their play. Wigan will always hover down their they are not capable of stringing a run together either. It will be a great scrap over the next few months and I would stick with PL because I am sure he can get us safe but I admit it will be 17th or 16th at best, not great, not in the plan but good enough for us to take stock and move forward.
The teams around us are all strengthening , and also picking up points and some momentum- we are hurtling the other way , dunne will not make that much difference if fit , we are a very poor side .
We have won 5 of our last 40 league games, have an appalling goal difference and a manager who has lost the plot - we are not going to stay up with paul lambert , but i accept your opinion and we will agree to differ .
Cheers mate no doubt we will both be there Tuesday in support. Have a good weekend.
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Lambert staying or going is unimportant. The most important thing is to bring in three experienced players: the defensive midfielders and a central defender. The second priority is to bring in someone who can organise the team defensively. It doesn't have to be a new manager; a defensive coach who will work on the basics can improve things in a pretty short time.
If we manage that, I think the likes of N'Zogbia, Ireland, Gabby, Weimann, Benteke and Bent actually have enough quality to create and score goals to keep us up.
We're still above the relegation zone -- just.
Are seriously saying the manager staying or going is unimportant?
The manager is in charge of signings, selections, coaching , tactics, etc - all the problems playing wise can be laid at his feet .
He spent £22m in the summer , far more than many clubs above us in the table - get rid!
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Stick by him whatever happens this season. I dont buy into this belief that there is some hidden quality in this squad that we're not seeing. I doubt anyone else would be doing much better. I'll just see it another 5 steps backwards if we sack him.
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At this point unless we have someone special lined up its pointless getting rid of Lambert. Ive always backed Lambert as well and will continue to do so although I must admit certain decisions have made me wonder.
The more concerning issue is Learner, even if we stay up we wont next season.
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At this point unless we have someone special lined up its pointless getting rid of Lambert. Ive always backed Lambert as well and will continue to do so although I must admit certain decisions have made me wonder.
The more concerning issue is Learner, even if we stay up we wont next season.
We cant do anything about lerner right now , we can however do something about lambert.
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Eastie I hope you soon come to terms with the fact that Lambert is not going to be removed/leave his job.
The thing there though is you are not saying its your opinion you are stating it as a fact .
[/quote]
Pardon my incorrect use of the English language. I should have said Eastie I hope you soon come to terms with the likelihood (in my opinion only) that Lambert is not going to be removed/leave his job.
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Not a fan of Lambert then, Eastie?
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Not a fan of Lambert then, Eastie?
I thought he was a decent choice but it hasnt worked out - better to cut our losses and admit it was a mistake than blindly follow him .
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There isn't a cat in bells chance he will be tolerated if he takes us down. We aren't some plucky new comers that should give him time to rebuild. He is the worst manager since McNeill and it beggars belief he's still there.
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Lambert staying or going is unimportant. The most important thing is to bring in three experienced players: the defensive midfielders and a central defender. The second priority is to bring in someone who can organise the team defensively. It doesn't have to be a new manager; a defensive coach who will work on the basics can improve things in a pretty short time.
If we manage that, I think the likes of N'Zogbia, Ireland, Gabby, Weimann, Benteke and Bent actually have enough quality to create and score goals to keep us up.
We're still above the relegation zone -- just.
I agree and Jamie Carragher wouldn't be a bad shout for that Defensive role (in my opinion).
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Lambert staying or going is unimportant. The most important thing is to bring in three experienced players: the defensive midfielders and a central defender. The second priority is to bring in someone who can organise the team defensively. It doesn't have to be a new manager; a defensive coach who will work on the basics can improve things in a pretty short time.
If we manage that, I think the likes of N'Zogbia, Ireland, Gabby, Weimann, Benteke and Bent actually have enough quality to create and score goals to keep us up.
We're still above the relegation zone -- just.
I agree and Jamie Carragher wouldn't be a bad shout for that Defensive role (in my opinion).
Carragher yes, fact :)
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Lambert staying or going is unimportant. The most important thing is to bring in three experienced players: the defensive midfielders and a central defender. The second priority is to bring in someone who can organise the team defensively. It doesn't have to be a new manager; a defensive coach who will work on the basics can improve things in a pretty short time.
If we manage that, I think the likes of N'Zogbia, Ireland, Gabby, Weimann, Benteke and Bent actually have enough quality to create and score goals to keep us up.
We're still above the relegation zone -- just.
I agree and Jamie Carragher wouldn't be a bad shout for that Defensive role (in my opinion).
Carragher yes, fact :)
I knew we could find something to agree upon if we kept at it long enough!
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I just don't get the lemmings type mentality of some of our supporters. Of course we are a bad team but worse than last season? Of course not.. Either people truly think Lambert is getting the best out of his players, and they really are non-league standard (and i think even non-league teams can manage not to concede a goal from a set-piece every game) OR he's doing a truly shitty job and should go. Whatever the players limitations, they're better than the disorganised, leaderless rabble that Lambert puts out week on week.
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Lambert staying or going is unimportant. The most important thing is to bring in three experienced players: the defensive midfielders and a central defender. The second priority is to bring in someone who can organise the team defensively. It doesn't have to be a new manager; a defensive coach who will work on the basics can improve things in a pretty short time.
If we manage that, I think the likes of N'Zogbia, Ireland, Gabby, Weimann, Benteke and Bent actually have enough quality to create and score goals to keep us up.
We're still above the relegation zone -- just.
Are seriously saying the manager staying or going is unimportant?
The manager is in charge of signings, selections, coaching , tactics, etc - all the problems playing wise can be laid at his feet .
He spent £22m in the summer , far more than many clubs above us in the table - get rid!
It's an inane comment, I know, but we cannot do anything about the mistakes we have made. All we can do is try to correct them in the future.
As I said, I believe that the combination of signing three experienced players and a modicum of defensive organisation will be enough to avoid relegation comfortably.
If Lambert is clever enough to realise that he needs experience and is able to sign appropriate players, and if Lambert is tactically adept enough to realise that himself and his team aren't cutting it when it comes to defensive coaching and is able to bring in an extra coach who can remedy that -- then I'll have no problem with him staying.
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The biggest difference between this season and last on the field is Petrov. We have missed him so bloody badly.
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I see lambert is now refusing to answer any questions from kendrick or the birmingham mail.
Its part of his job to address local media - childish petulant behaviour from a manager.
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I see lambert is now refusing to answer any questions from kendrick or the birmingham mail.
Its part of his job to address local media - childish petulant behaviour from a manager.
Clone of O'Neill.
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I see lambert is now refusing to answer any questions from kendrick or the birmingham mail.
Its part of his job to address local media - childish petulant behaviour from a manager.
Clone of O'Neill.
I just hope o neill advises him to get out asap although im sure mon wont mind seeing us in the shit as it helps his club .
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The question Mat Kendrick asked:
Q: How disappointed do you think the fans will be after coming out in big numbers again to watch that?
A: Blankety blank
Seems a fair enough question.
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The question Mat Kendrick asked:
Q: How disappointed do you think the fans will be after coming out in big numbers again to watch that?
A: Blankety blank
Seems a fair enough question.
There were four in total from Mat throughout the press conference and he ignored them all.
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Whilst we need a Jamie Carragher type person, i don't think the man himself is going to leave the club he's played for all his life to get involved in a relegation scrap any time soon.
As for Lambert, i don't like the idea of getting rid of a manager so soon after appointing him, we do need a bit of continuity. Unfortunatley though i can't see us getting the 20 points we need under him.
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Arrogant twat.
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The question Mat Kendrick asked:
Q: How disappointed do you think the fans will be after coming out in big numbers again to watch that?
A: Blankety blank
Seems a fair enough question.
There were four in total from Mat throughout the press conference and he ignored them all.
Any idea what the others were dave?
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Whilst we need a Jamie Carragher type person, i don't think the man himself is going to leave the club he's played for all his life to get involved in a relegation scrap any time soon.
As for Lambert, i don't like the idea of getting rid of a manager so soon after appointing him, we do need a bit of continuity. Unfortunatley though i can't see us getting the 20 points we need under him.
So are you saying get rid or keep clampy?
Nobody would be calling for his head if he was doing a decent or even average job , we do need continuity but only if its the right man.
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The question Mat Kendrick asked:
Q: How disappointed do you think the fans will be after coming out in big numbers again to watch that?
A: Blankety blank
Seems a fair enough question.
There were four in total from Mat throughout the press conference and he ignored them all.
Any idea what the others were dave?
Bland stuff about Delph's injury, that sort of thing.
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Not sure if this has already been asked but does anyone think he was under orders to blank Kendrick after the recent Lerner-bashing in the Mail?
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Snub local media at your peril. They will have no mercy now.
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The question Mat Kendrick asked:
Q: How disappointed do you think the fans will be after coming out in big numbers again to watch that?
A: Blankety blank
Seems a fair enough question.
There were four in total from Mat throughout the press conference and he ignored them all.
Any idea what the others were dave?
Bland stuff about Delph's injury, that sort of thing.
Kendrick has always been fairly decent to lambert in his comments - i wonder how he would have reacted to past mail reporters .
Remenber the front page 'For gods sake go dr Jo'
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Whilst we need a Jamie Carragher type person, i don't think the man himself is going to leave the club he's played for all his life to get involved in a relegation scrap any time soon.
As for Lambert, i don't like the idea of getting rid of a manager so soon after appointing him, we do need a bit of continuity. Unfortunatley though i can't see us getting the 20 points we need under him.
So are you saying get rid or keep clampy?
Nobody would be calling for his head if he was doing a decent or even average job , we do need continuity but only if its the right man.
I honestly don't know. Something needs to change though and sometimes change is what's needed. If we lose again on tuesday, it may be a case of having to.
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Whilst we need a Jamie Carragher type person, i don't think the man himself is going to leave the club he's played for all his life to get involved in a relegation scrap any time soon.
As for Lambert, i don't like the idea of getting rid of a manager so soon after appointing him, we do need a bit of continuity. Unfortunatley though i can't see us getting the 20 points we need under him.
So are you saying get rid or keep clampy?
Nobody would be calling for his head if he was doing a decent or even average job , we do need continuity but only if its the right man.
I honestly don't know. Something needs to change though and sometimes change is what's needed. If we lose again on tuesday, it may be a case of having to.
I though saints bradford and last night were tipping points - surely a defeat on tuesday will be if we havent already reached it.
Sometimes a change of manager sees a bit of a kickstart with players having to prove themselves and a clean slate - i think we need that impetus - even if only an interim manager on a huge bonus to keep us up.
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On Thursday there was a bit of a fuss about tweets made by Ivan Gaskell about stuff PL said about buying players then going down and the financial implications of these transfers, Gaskell orgianlly tweeted this as if PL was talking about Villa he later amended it and said that PL was talking about other clubs. Yesterday Kendrick and the mail printed the story (which is the basis of the Have the club accepted relegation? thread on here) could this be the reason PL blanked him?
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Lerner won't do anything, he is completely incompetent.
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Not sure if this has already been asked but does anyone think he was under orders to blank Kendrick after the recent Lerner-bashing in the Mail?
Whether he was told to or did it off his own back, he's made it look as if he can't handle criticism and left himself open to it now.
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On Thursday there was a bit of a fuss about tweets made by Ivan Gaskell about stuff PL said about buying players then going down and the financial implications of these transfers, Gaskell orgianlly tweeted this as if PL was talking about Villa he later amended it and said that PL was talking about other clubs. Yesterday Kendrick and the mail printed the story (which is the basis of the Have the club accepted relegation? thread on here) could this be the reason PL blanked him?
Whatever the reason its not acceptable, its part of lamberts job to deal with local media , not their job to agree with everything he does , petulant and sulky.
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If someone had written an open letter in the mail to my boss*, saying hire some new staff to work under django or sack him I wouldn't be too happy.
* I don't have a boss, or a team under me, but I am shit at my job.
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On Thursday there was a bit of a fuss about tweets made by Ivan Gaskell about stuff PL said about buying players then going down and the financial implications of these transfers, Gaskell orgianlly tweeted this as if PL was talking about Villa he later amended it and said that PL was talking about other clubs. Yesterday Kendrick and the mail printed the story (which is the basis of the Have the club accepted relegation? thread on here) could this be the reason PL blanked him?
Whatever the reason its not acceptable, its part of lamberts job to deal with local media , not their job to agree with everything he does , petulant and sulky.
If Kendrick knew that PL was talking about other clubs yet used this as the basis for his story Kendrick was bullshitting and trying to cause trouble for PL why should PL even acknowledge him?
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I quite like Lambchop's new approach to the mail. He may wish to extend it to all the papers in fact. Silence is better than bullshit.
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shouldn't laugh but the latest Hitler one did make me piss my pants . Damn funny . at least I feel a little better , even thou the whle country is taking the piss out of us.
Thanks Randy , Thanks PL
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Silence of the Lambchop
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I quite like Lambchop's new approach to the mail. He may wish to extend it to all the papers in fact. Silence is better than bullshit.
That Lambchop patter is so childish, embarrassing!
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On Thursday there was a bit of a fuss about tweets made by Ivan Gaskell about stuff PL said about buying players then going down and the financial implications of these transfers, Gaskell orgianlly tweeted this as if PL was talking about Villa he later amended it and said that PL was talking about other clubs. Yesterday Kendrick and the mail printed the story (which is the basis of the Have the club accepted relegation? thread on here) could this be the reason PL blanked him?
Whatever the reason its not acceptable, its part of lamberts job to deal with local media , not their job to agree with everything he does , petulant and sulky.
If Kendrick knew that PL was talking about other clubs yet used this as the basis for his story Kendrick was bullshitting and trying to cause trouble for PL why should PL even acknowledge him?
There was nothing controversial in what Kendrick said in the Mail, just valid questions. It's his job to report news and ask questions when things aren't going well. It's not his job to be a nodding dog to Lerner and Lambert.
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I quite like Lambchop's new approach to the mail. He may wish to extend it to all the papers in fact. Silence is better than bullshit.
That Lambchop patter is so childish, embarrassing!
I like it. Lambert's took the piss out of is all season. It's about we took the piss back.
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I quite like Lambchop's new approach to the mail. He may wish to extend it to all the papers in fact. Silence is better than bullshit.
That Lambchop patter is so childish, embarrassing!
Sums him up perfectly imo. A puppet with a big yank hand up his arse controlling him
(http://media.vcstar.com/media/img/photos/2012/08/02/970627_t607.JPG)
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Wonder what he did then... Stoney silence?, say "no comment"?, pretend to be on his phone?...
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On Thursday there was a bit of a fuss about tweets made by Ivan Gaskell about stuff PL said about buying players then going down and the financial implications of these transfers, Gaskell orgianlly tweeted this as if PL was talking about Villa he later amended it and said that PL was talking about other clubs. Yesterday Kendrick and the mail printed the story (which is the basis of the Have the club accepted relegation? thread on here) could this be the reason PL blanked him?
Whatever the reason its not acceptable, its part of lamberts job to deal with local media , not their job to agree with everything he does , petulant and sulky.
If Kendrick knew that PL was talking about other clubs yet used this as the basis for his story Kendrick was bullshitting and trying to cause trouble for PL why should PL even acknowledge him?
There was nothing controversial in what Kendrick said in the Mail, just valid questions. It's his job to report news and ask questions when things aren't going well. It's not his job to be a nodding dog to Lerner and Lambert.
The quote Kendrick used as his headline was PL talking about other clubs, Kendrick uses it as a headline to make it look like he said it about Villa. It's mischief making at the very least!
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Only Merson criticising Lambert on Soccer Saturday really. He's said we should have bought a centre mid with experience.
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Only Merson criticising Lambert on Soccer Saturday really. He's said we should have bought a centre mid with experience.
We did. He just hasn't been very good so far.
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If he stopped doing radio and TV interviews it wouldn't make any difference as far as I'm concerned. Mainly because I find it harder to understand what he is saying by the day.
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I thought that the analysis on Sky just now by Merse, Thompson and Charlie was pretty much spot on. Especially placing the blame for Tuesday night's second half panicking on Lambert.
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I quite like Lambchop's new approach to the mail. He may wish to extend it to all the papers in fact. Silence is better than bullshit.
That Lambchop patter is so childish, embarrassing!
Sums him up perfectly imo. A puppet with a big yank hand up his arse controlling him
(http://media.vcstar.com/media/img/photos/2012/08/02/970627_t607.JPG)
Fantastic- just lost half my coffee reading that gnasher!
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I quite like Lambchop's new approach to the mail. He may wish to extend it to all the papers in fact. Silence is better than bullshit.
That Lambchop patter is so childish, embarrassing!
Sums him up perfectly imo. A puppet with a big yank hand up his arse controlling him
(http://media.vcstar.com/media/img/photos/2012/08/02/970627_t607.JPG)
Fantastic- just lost half my coffee reading that gnasher!
Must be the first Gnasher post to make me smile. Sums up the situation spot on.
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I was firmly behind the appointment of Lambert but he's obviously failing miserably. For me, the blame of our plight has to be shared equally with Lerner, whatever their plan, it isn't working and those issues have to be fixed immediately. We cannot continue in the same manner but unfortunately it looks as if we will.
I can't believe Lambert took this job not knowing what the financial implications were, on that basis he has failed in his role and in the process has humiliated us beyond belief in the process with some horrendous results and performances.
It is with regret that I've had to change my vote on Lambert, I cannot see him turning this around. Its hard to imagine the team playing any poorer than they are now and it is afterall a results business. I am a believer in longevity, but I think its time to consider other options, whatever they may be...
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Paul Lambert, 'I'm no quitter'. You may not be in terms of resigning, but you've given up all effort to try and deal with our problems.
Yet he resigned from Livingston, Wycome, Colchester and Norwich.
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Has lambchop lost the team ? Are they playing for him or do we think maybe some players are just not putting themselves on the line for him?
Has he lost the dressing room?
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Paul Lambert, 'I'm no quitter'. You may not be in terms of resigning, but you've given up all effort to try and deal with our problems.
Yet he resigned from Livingston, Wycome, Colchester and Norwich.
Well said that lady.
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Paul Lambert, 'I'm no quitter'. You may not be in terms of resigning, but you've given up all effort to try and deal with our problems.
Yet he resigned from Livingston, Wycome, Colchester and Norwich.
Very good point, but the difference with all those occasions was that he was on the up. Now he knows he definitely isn't.
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In Fridays Daily Express Lerner was supposed to be incandescant whilst lounging on his most agreeable sofa. This was after the Southampton game. Lambert is quoted as saying this." Randy has said my job is safe.It was just the other day"
"I trust Lerner"
Not the Chairman or Mr Lerner or even Randy, but Lerner.
I suspect he doesnt trust Lerner.
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In Fridays Daily Express Lerner was supposed to be incandescant whilst lounging on his most agreeable sofa. This was after the Southampton game. Lambert is quoted as saying this." Randy has said my job is safe.It was just the other day"
"I trust Lerner"
Not the Chairman or Mr Lerner or even Randy, but Lerner.
I suspect he doesnt trust Lerner.
Mcleish foolishly thought the same right up until the minute he got the chop.
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Paul Lambert, 'I'm no quitter'. You may not be in terms of resigning, but you've given up all effort to try and deal with our problems.
Yet he resigned from Livingston, Wycome, Colchester and Norwich.
starting frommmmm now !
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So the "out" votes go to a marginal lead over the "ins", whereas the position was over 75% "in" a week ago. I wonder what the position would have been if, say, the header for Bradford's goal at VP had just missed instead of going in and Millwall's winner had hit the bar and bounced over instead of back for them to score. Bet there would still be a substantial majority voting "in".
Times are bleak, but sacking the manager is not the answer to the deep rooted problems at Villa Park. Screaming for Lambert's head is the panic-stricken equivalent of running away when faced with any kind of challenge.
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Has lambchop lost the team ? Are they playing for him or do we think maybe some players are just not putting themselves on the line for him?
Has he lost the dressing room?
I've said since the Wigan game that even his own signings don't look like they are playing for him at times. What happened to the mantra that he'd have young and hungry players running through walls for him?
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So the "out" votes go to a marginal lead over the "ins", whereas the position was over 75% "in" a week ago. I wonder what the position would have been if, say, the header for Bradford's goal at VP had just missed instead of going in and Millwall's winner had hit the bar and bounced over instead of back for them to score. Bet there would still be a substantial majority voting "in".
Times are bleak, but sacking the manager is not the answer to the deep rooted problems at Villa Park. Screaming for Lambert's head is the panic-stricken equivalent of running away when faced with any kind of challenge.
And I suppose they were eight lucky goals at Stamford Bridge, followed by a startling misfortune at home to Wigan.
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Didn't say anything like that, but you just carry om missing the point!
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I get the feeling that the shit has not yet started to hit the fan. Things are going to get a lot worse, a lot worse.
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As DC5 mentioned above, you alienate the local media at your peril.
I think they'll be at Lambshank's throat from now on.
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I quite like Lambchop's new approach to the mail. He may wish to extend it to all the papers in fact. Silence is better than bullshit.
That Lambchop patter is so childish, embarrassing!
I like it. Lambert's took the piss out of is all season. It's about we took the piss back.
More scrag end than Lamb chop.
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He might have walked out on Wycombe and Livingston, but I'm guessing he's on a few quid more here. Makes far more sense to sit tight and wait for Sheriff Randy to ride his horse into town, if he can remember where we are of course.
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If he get's the boot he'll be well rewarded.
Only in football can you get minted for being a failure.
Didn't Fucking 'Eck get £2m out of us?
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I find his present lack of ability very much at odds with his record at Colchester and Norwich. My son's mate who is a Norwich fan through and through says that Lambert's marriage failed when he was at Norwich.
Lambert's odd rambling last week about when he got home (after a bad defeat) "you want to pan somebody but there is nobody there so you take it all into yourself". Perhaps his private life is a car wreck. There are quite a few men about, so I have been told, who love women more than they love football, perhaps he is one of them. He certainly does not give me the impression of a man with his mind on the job
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I agree with the previous comments about alienating the local media. When the national broadcasters and newspapers have all moved on to the next big-club-in-turmoil/Chelsea-manager-sacked/City-to-buy-entire-Barca-first-team story, the Mail, WM, etc will still be there. And what's more Villa will need them, especially when they're trying to flog tickets to watch a mid-ranking Championship team.
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If he'd shut up shop when we were two or three down against Chelsea, instead of naïvely trying to force our way back into the game, I doubt we'd be in the position we're in now. Certainly don't think Wigan would have put three past us and we'd probably still be in both cups.
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If we are going to play 3-5-2 which works ok for us, we need the defense to have 3 central defenders, and 2 holding midfielders.
We don't have enough of either to make it work.
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Didn't say anything like that, but you just carry om missing the point!
I understand the point.
My take on it is that there will always be a tipping point where even the most optimistic supporter's patience is tested. Lambert had the majority on side after the heavy defeats, because despite the precarious position, we still had plenty to play for and many believed he could turn it around. Going out to Bradford was enough for some, Lambert himself appears to have lost the plot and the Millwall defeat and well and truly fanned the flames.
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I find his present lack of ability very much at odds with his record at Colchester and Norwich. My son's mate who is a Norwich fan through and through says that Lambert's marriage failed when he was at Norwich.
Lambert's odd rambling last week about when he got home (after a bad defeat) "you want to pan somebody but there is nobody there so you take it all into yourself". Perhaps his private life is a car wreck. There are quite a few men about, so I have been told, who love women more than they love football, perhaps he is one of them. He certainly does not give me the impression of a man with his mind on the job
You could well be right and if this relationship issue has come about in the last 12/18 months he may be facing a difficult time at home however in my experience selfish driven men , and that's what a football manager needs to be, are hardly ever affected by these "minor" issues.
and I do not believe the bit in bold.
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It's no good Lambert acting like a drama queen where the Mail is concerned, there is only one reason why the media, us and Uncle Tom Cobley and all are on his case.
Results.
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There are quite a few men about, so I have been told, who love women more than they love football,
and I do not believe the bit in bold.
Nor me. ;)
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There are quite a few men about, so I have been told, who love women more than they love football,
and I do not believe the bit in bold.
Nor me. ;)
Thats so unfair on Jon, at least he lets you go with him!
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I wonder what proportion of Norwich's supporters will be clamouring for Hughton to be sacked as they tumble relentlessly down the league and exit the FA Cup at the hands of a Conference team - at home. After all, he inherited a team that were comfortably mid table last season (as opposed to one that was nearly relegated for the second season running).
Where there are no credible alternatives that will help our current plight, public demands for a change of manager will hinder not help any chance we have of avoiding relegation. Lambert's increasing desparation (and the errors that come with this) have been caused by the situation he is in, trying to manage a club that has no direction. Most human beings would be influenced by this and any successor (who?) would be too.
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There are quite a few men about, so I have been told, who love women more than they love football,
and I do not believe the bit in bold.
Nor me. ;)
Thats so unfair on Jon, at least he lets you go with him!
Behave, Eastie. :o
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If he get's the boot he'll be well rewarded.
Only in football can you get minted for being a failure.
Didn't Fucking 'Eck get £2m out of us?
Honestly Fletch, that's the biggest pile of bollocks I've read today.
I mean, what about bankers, CEO's and government officials?
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If he get's the boot he'll be well rewarded.
Only in football can you get minted for being a failure.
Didn't Fucking 'Eck get £2m out of us?
Honestly Fletch, that's the biggest pile of bollocks I've read today.
I mean, what about bankers, CEO's and government officials?
How dare you disparage the banking community.
What have they ever done to you?
In Banking etc the top dogs get rewarded for failure, but so-so players get hefty transfer cuts for being shit.
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Also, don't slag the banks off because they pay all our bills and match tickets.
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I wonder what proportion of Norwich's supporters will be clamouring for Hughton to be sacked as they tumble relentlessly down the league and exit the FA Cup at the hands of a Conference team - at home. After all, he inherited a team that were comfortably mid table last season (as opposed to one that was nearly relegated for the second season running).
Where there are no credible alternatives that will help our current plight, public demands for a change of manager will hinder not help any chance we have of avoiding relegation. Lambert's increasing desparation (and the errors that come with this) have been caused by the situation he is in, trying to manage a club that has no direction. Most human beings would be influenced by this and any successor (who?) would be too.
I don't care about Norwich, I care about Aston Villa. Your position rests upon 3 assumptions which I think are wrong, 1) that there are no credible alternatives, 2) the club has no direction and 3) that no manager could do a better job than Lambert given the resources he's had.
Lambert's record at our club speaks for itself, it is horrendous and if the man had any shame he would have walked by now. He knew the challenge he was accepting and he's had a full pre-season and £20 million plus to spend on players after assessing the squad he inherited. Unfortunately the decisions he has made haven't paid off, and this has led to the complete and utter continued embarrassment of our club.
His quote about experience still rankles me, he said experience doesn't guarantee anything, well yes and no, it doesn't guarantee performances or results, though it's usually a good indicator, but what experience does guarantee, is experience, and that in itself can be a massively valuable asset. Maybe if he had a little more experience himself, he wouldn't have said such a stupid thing and made some of the numerous stupid mistakes he has.
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I am beginning to believe that with so many unknowns at the club that Paul Lambert was aping Barry Fry's time at Small Heath.
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I bet the QPR fans are demanding Redknapp out after today...
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I bet the QPR fans are demanding Redknapp out after today...
Played his reserves side near enough- wise move .
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I bet the QPR fans are demanding Redknapp out after today...
Played his reserves side near enough- wise move .
I can think of at least two occasions in our recent history where our manager has done something similar
and it has backfired. Whose to say it can't happen to our old mucka arry?
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Hang on Nev, are you saying you think Lambert is trying to get us relegated on purpose? Do you really believe that, or have you still not got over Tuesday?
No I think the owner is and Lambert is complicit. Anyone can see that without additions we will go down. Not big name, big money players but some short term experienced level heads, thats all the team needs to have a fighting chance. If we try and still go down than so be it, but we must try. I believe the manager has known this for some time such is his body language and attitiude.
He appears to be accepting of our plight and I don't want anyone at Villa to have that outlook. The owner has obviously made his mind up but the manager could show a little principle and side with the real heart of the club. The fans.
Spot on about Lambert and Lerner appearing to be complicit.
You can almost imagine how the recent heart-to-heart went.
Lambert: we need more players to be sure of surviving.
Lerner: we can't afford any
Lambert: I'm worried about my reputation and losing my job if we go down
Lerner: don't worry, I won't sack you. We might have some room to manouvre in the summer and you'll get a shot at bringing us back up
Lambert: You're a great bloke Randy - see you in the summer.
I can't believe how many people believe this to be the case.
The board and manager aren't preparing us for relegation, we're not even in the relegation zone as things stand. They might be being stubborn in their belief that these kids are good enough to get us out of this and that the squad is big enough but they're not actively planning on being relegated. The notion that it might even have occurred to them as an option is crazy. Will they have discussed it and started forming a plan of how to handle the situation, of course, we're in the mix, it would be stupid not to.
I'd be fairly certain that Lambert has put together a list of targets and is thinking "if I can get any of these guys for a suitable price/wage I want to go for it (this wage/fee may have been set unrealistically low), but otherwise I'll back my squad to get out it, rather than spend money on players I don't want".
You can disagree with that all you like but it's the most likely scenario as things stand. I'm suggest we've approached people and have the money to make the transfers but the players have asked for silly wages based on where we are in the league, along with all kinds of relegation clauses.
There's a difference between a conspiracy theory and being complicit.
I don't anyone with an ounce of sense believes that Lerner and his stooges are actively trying to get us relegated. But absolutely think Lerner, Faulkener and Lambert are complicit in being signed up to the same plan and party line.
One definition of being complicit is being aware of a crime and failing to report it. It was a crime to enter the premier league season with such a weak squad - which was highlighted by the inept opening game against Everton. Lambert's signings went some way to remedy the situation but it simply been proven to be not enough.
So here we are in the transfer window on the verge of squandering the opportunity to maximise our chances of survival. If we don't strengthen then it will be another crime and none of them will act on it.
If the money is there, then Lerner won't sack Lambert for not strengthening. If the money isn't there then Lambert won't resign in protest of his position being untenable. If these aren't clear examples of being complicit then I don't know what is.
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It wouldn't hurt if the boring drone came out with a bit of honesty.
As much as I dislike Redknapp and Brendan Rodgers, they suffer an embaressing defeat and come out with both barrells firing saying how it's not acceptable and slamming the players. After every defeat we get some soft arse shit from Lambert how they gave there all etc etc, bollocks did they. Bradford should not be capable of beating us over 2 games. We should not be conceding from nearly every corner or cross thrown into the box. Theres a real lack of commitment from the defenders, i'm talking about last ditch tackles, throwing your head in where it hurts, busting your bollocks to stop a winger getting a cross in. I don't see any of this from this set of players. They're on easy street and not killing themselves for the club.
The sooner Lambert starts telling a few of these ****** some how truths the better.
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I am convinced that Lambert will come good for us.
I'll be honest, my belief took a big knock after Milwall, but having thought about it a bit more, I remain convinced that we've got a good manager, who is currently having the struggle of his life. Partly, it is his fault, partly it is the dross he's still got in his squad, and partly it is our hermit of our owner.
That's not pretending things aren't bad - they are - and I do think we'll go down without reinforcements, but even if that were to happen, what kind of manager would we be looking for to get us back up? The sort with a proven record of getting teams promoted - ie the manager we have at the moment.
I totally appreciate why some people want him out now (although a more than decent proportion of us don't), but I still believe sticking with him and supporting him is the thing to do, and represents our best chance of hanging on to our status.
One thing you see a lot on here is "Manager X would do better than Lambert", but that is not the point. Manager X, Y or Z would have to do significantly better than Lambert if we are to stay up under these circumstances. A bit better won't be enough.
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I am convinced that Lambert will come good for us.
I'll be honest, my belief took a big knock after Milwall, but having thought about it a bit more, I remain convinced that we've got a good manager, who is currently having the struggle of his life. Partly, it is his fault, partly it is the dross he's still got in his squad, and partly it is our hermit of our owner.
That's not pretending things aren't bad - they are - and I do think we'll go down without reinforcements, but even if that were to happen, what kind of manager would we be looking for to get us back up? The sort with a proven record of getting teams promoted - ie the manager we have at the moment.
I totally appreciate why some people want him out now (although a more than decent proportion of us don't), but I still believe sticking with him and supporting him is the thing to do, and represents our best chance of hanging on to our status.
One thing you see a lot on here is "Manager X would do better than Lambert", but that is not the point. Manager X, Y or Z would have to do significantly better than Lambert if we are to stay up under these circumstances. A bit better won't be enough.
It's entirely possible that one point will be the difference between going down and staying up, it's been that way for 6 of the last seven years, so a bit better might well be enough seeing how tight it is at the moment.
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None of us are happy right now and we've all got differing views on the way forward and the merits of the manager.
I'd much rather people focused on our owner and the way he's 'running' our club.
Judging by other results this weekend, Tottenham, Norwich and Liverpool have all been beaten by teams lower than us in the lague ladder. The current European Champions were held to a draw by Brentford from League One. It can and does happen to everyone at some point, we've just had two shit results in Cup competitions in close succession. Our league frm is also diabolical.
However, we are still not in the relegation places, we aren't down, though we're on very thin ice indeed and appear to be walking further out to the thinner bit.
Lambert isn't a bad manager overnight, however, he's being hung out to dry by our owner and board. It's not pretty at all. We're much like the Cleveland Browns under Lerner, except for one big difference; we can be relegated from the league.
Of course Lerner might just be chucking his toys out because the fans were rude to his mate the General.
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It wouldn't hurt if the boring drone came out with a bit of honesty.
As much as I dislike Redknapp and Brendan Rodgers, they suffer an embaressing defeat and come out with both barrells firing saying how it's not acceptable and slamming the players.
Yes great Arry the master of self preservation. Nothing great about managers having a go at players after an embarrassment and making themselves look good with sound bites.
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Also, don't slag the banks off because they pay all our bills and match tickets.
And without them we wouldn't get paid.
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Lose to Newcastle and I'd say he's gone
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Of course Lerner might just be chucking his toys out because the fans were rude to his mate the General.
That's a potentially extremely expensive strop!
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I am convinced that Lambert will come good for us.
I'll be honest, my belief took a big knock after Milwall, but having thought about it a bit more, I remain convinced that we've got a good manager, who is currently having the struggle of his life. Partly, it is his fault, partly it is the dross he's still got in his squad, and partly it is our hermit of our owner.
That's not pretending things aren't bad - they are - and I do think we'll go down without reinforcements, but even if that were to happen, what kind of manager would we be looking for to get us back up? The sort with a proven record of getting teams promoted - ie the manager we have at the moment.
I totally appreciate why some people want him out now (although a more than decent proportion of us don't), but I still believe sticking with him and supporting him is the thing to do, and represents our best chance of hanging on to our status.
One thing you see a lot on here is "Manager X would do better than Lambert", but that is not the point. Manager X, Y or Z would have to do significantly better than Lambert if we are to stay up under these circumstances. A bit better won't be enough.
It's entirely possible that one point will be the difference between going down and staying up, it's been that way for 6 of the last seven years, so a bit better might well be enough seeing how tight it is at the moment.
I genuinely don't think there's really much likelihood of finding someone now, parachuting them in, and even achieving much via the usual new manager lift thing.
I know you're going to tell me i was saying that four weeks ago, and I was, but that doesn't change the fact it is January 27th, and we're almost entirely out of time to do anything to improve the squad.
I genuinely believe that if we don't get squad additions in, we are done for, in any case.
Lambert will have played a massive part in that, but so will Lerner with his misguided "sell all the good players, replace them with crud or children" policy.
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Lose to Newcastle and I'd say he's gone
I'd say there is absolutely zero chance he's getting sacked this season, zero.
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One thing you see a lot on here is "Manager X would do better than Lambert", but that is not the point. Manager X, Y or Z would have to do significantly better than Lambert if we are to stay up under these circumstances. A bit better won't be enough.
well not really that much better, just as bad/better as TSM. we've had 20m spent on the squad since he limped to the finish line last May. If we have a weaker squad of players now then that's down to Lambchop. If we haven't then their performances are also down to lampchop.
Anyway, we're going over old ground here. Sooner or later those saying In or out will be overtaken by events and will be forced to concede they are wrong. I hope its the outs because if you're wrong we'll be down.
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It wouldn't hurt if the boring drone came out with a bit of honesty.
As much as I dislike Redknapp and Brendan Rodgers, they suffer an embaressing defeat and come out with both barrells firing saying how it's not acceptable and slamming the players. After every defeat we get some soft arse shit from Lambert how they gave there all etc etc, bollocks did they. Bradford should not be capable of beating us over 2 games. We should not be conceding from nearly every corner or cross thrown into the box. Theres a real lack of commitment from the defenders, i'm talking about last ditch tackles, throwing your head in where it hurts, busting your bollocks to stop a winger getting a cross in. I don't see any of this from this set of players. They're on easy street and not killing themselves for the club.
The sooner Lambert starts telling a few of these c***s some how truths the better.
I can see where you're coming from but it looks like these are the payers he's going to have to rely on for the season, further humiliating them in public is not going to help.
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One thing you see a lot on here is "Manager X would do better than Lambert", but that is not the point. Manager X, Y or Z would have to do significantly better than Lambert if we are to stay up under these circumstances. A bit better won't be enough.
well not really that much better, just as bad/better as TSM. we've had 20m spent on the squad since he limped to the finish line last May. If we have a weaker squad of players now then that's down to Lambchop. If we haven't then their performances are also down to lampchop.
Anyway, we're going over old ground here. Sooner or later those saying In or out will be overtaken by events and will be forced to concede they are wrong. I hope its the outs because if you're wrong we'll be down.
Your second paragraph really makes no odds to me.
I've already said, I think we are getting relegated. I'm not living in denial about that.
I think, given the situation we are in, the situation which has developed over the last few years, if there is no investment in players, we're properly fucked. Fucked.
If there is to be investment in players, then for every extra day into this transfer window, it has come too late.
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It wouldn't hurt if the boring drone came out with a bit of honesty.
As much as I dislike Redknapp and Brendan Rodgers, they suffer an embaressing defeat and come out with both barrells firing saying how it's not acceptable and slamming the players. After every defeat we get some soft arse shit from Lambert how they gave there all etc etc, bollocks did they. Bradford should not be capable of beating us over 2 games. We should not be conceding from nearly every corner or cross thrown into the box. Theres a real lack of commitment from the defenders, i'm talking about last ditch tackles, throwing your head in where it hurts, busting your bollocks to stop a winger getting a cross in. I don't see any of this from this set of players. They're on easy street and not killing themselves for the club.
The sooner Lambert starts telling a few of these c***s some how truths the better.
I can see where you're coming from but it looks like these are the payers he's going to have to rely on for the season, further humiliating them in public is not going to help.
Totally agree.
If we are stuck with this squad, then if there is one thing that will improve them, it is regaining some of their confidence. That's even less likely to happen if the manager starts screaming and swearing at them.
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One thing you see a lot on here is "Manager X would do better than Lambert", but that is not the point. Manager X, Y or Z would have to do significantly better than Lambert if we are to stay up under these circumstances. A bit better won't be enough.
well not really that much better, just as bad/better as TSM. we've had 20m spent on the squad since he limped to the finish line last May. If we have a weaker squad of players now then that's down to Lambchop. If we haven't then their performances are also down to lampchop.
Anyway, we're going over old ground here. Sooner or later those saying In or out will be overtaken by events and will be forced to concede they are wrong. I hope its the outs because if you're wrong we'll be down.
It's not his fault that several players were out of contract, others have been injured and Petrov go ill. We've had to create almost an entire new team while playing competitive games.
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Lose to Newcastle and I'd say he's gone
NO.
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I wonder what proportion of Norwich's supporters will be clamouring for Hughton to be sacked as they tumble relentlessly down the league and exit the FA Cup at the hands of a Conference team - at home. After all, he inherited a team that were comfortably mid table last season (as opposed to one that was nearly relegated for the second season running).
Where there are no credible alternatives that will help our current plight, public demands for a change of manager will hinder not help any chance we have of avoiding relegation. Lambert's increasing desparation (and the errors that come with this) have been caused by the situation he is in, trying to manage a club that has no direction. Most human beings would be influenced by this and any successor (who?) would be too.
I don't care about Norwich, I care about Aston Villa. Your position rests upon 3 assumptions which I think are wrong, 1) that there are no credible alternatives, 2) the club has no direction and 3) that no manager could do a better job than Lambert given the resources he's had.
Lambert's record at our club speaks for itself, it is horrendous and if the man had any shame he would have walked by now. He knew the challenge he was accepting and he's had a full pre-season and £20 million plus to spend on players after assessing the squad he inherited. Unfortunately the decisions he has made haven't paid off, and this has led to the complete and utter continued embarrassment of our club.
His quote about experience still rankles me, he said experience doesn't guarantee anything, well yes and no, it doesn't guarantee performances or results, though it's usually a good indicator, but what experience does guarantee, is experience, and that in itself can be a massively valuable asset. Maybe if he had a little more experience himself, he wouldn't have said such a stupid thing and made some of the numerous stupid mistakes he has.
You start your post by stating that my "position" rests on 3 assumptions that you believe to be wrong. They are (1) there are no credible alternatives to Lambert, (2) the club has no direction and (3) that no manager could do a better job than Lambert given the resources he's had. This a reasonable start but you then confine yourself to repeating oft stated criticisms of him (some of which I wouldn't seek to disagree with).
Can I have the answers to the assumptions that you think are wrong please. In other words, what is the credible alternative, what is the direction of the club, who is the maanger that could (or would) come in now and do a much better job?
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One thing you see a lot on here is "Manager X would do better than Lambert", but that is not the point. Manager X, Y or Z would have to do significantly better than Lambert if we are to stay up under these circumstances. A bit better won't be enough.
well not really that much better, just as bad/better as TSM. we've had 20m spent on the squad since he limped to the finish line last May. If we have a weaker squad of players now then that's down to Lambchop. If we haven't then their performances are also down to lampchop.
Anyway, we're going over old ground here. Sooner or later those saying In or out will be overtaken by events and will be forced to concede they are wrong. I hope its the outs because if you're wrong we'll be down.
Your second paragraph really makes no odds to me.
I've already said, I think we are getting relegated. I'm not living in denial about that.
I think, given the situation we are in, the situation which has developed over the last few years, if there is no investment in players, we're properly fucked. Fucked.
If there is to be investment in players, then for every extra day into this transfer window, it has come too late.
Plenty of premiership clubs didn't spend 20m in the summer paulie. I agree that we desperately need players but we're not on a shoestring like some clubs., and we certainly should have better players than the likes of Bradford and Millwall. The fact we got so comprehensively turned over by them hints its something in the coaching or confidence and that can be fixed with no money on new players.
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One thing you see a lot on here is "Manager X would do better than Lambert", but that is not the point. Manager X, Y or Z would have to do significantly better than Lambert if we are to stay up under these circumstances. A bit better won't be enough.
well not really that much better, just as bad/better as TSM. we've had 20m spent on the squad since he limped to the finish line last May. If we have a weaker squad of players now then that's down to Lambchop. If we haven't then their performances are also down to lampchop.
Anyway, we're going over old ground here. Sooner or later those saying In or out will be overtaken by events and will be forced to concede they are wrong. I hope its the outs because if you're wrong we'll be down.
It's not his fault that several players were out of contract, others have been injured and Petrov go ill. We've had to create almost an entire new team while playing competitive games.
oh come on chris. We hardly lost the creme de la creme in the summer. Petrov was the only big loss and 20m should have covered that
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How Lambert is still in charge defies belief IMHO
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It's not his fault that several players were out of contract, others have been injured and Petrov go ill. We've had to create almost an entire new team while playing competitive games.
I think that's right but the folly lies in creating almost an entire new team for the Premier League almost entirely out of players who have never played in it before, and in some cases never at that standard.
It was always going to be a struggle but I think even the ardent optimists never saw it being quite as bad as this.
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Same here, so it's up to him to sign some players and sort our team out.
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It's not his fault that several players were out of contract, others have been injured and Petrov go ill. We've had to create almost an entire new team while playing competitive games.
I think that's right but the folly lies in creating almost an entire new team for the Premier League almost entirely out of players who have never played in it before, and in some cases never at that standard.
I would entirely agree with that, and enough of us were saying we were worried about it when the season started.
For three years now, the club has been talking about nothing but the wage bill. All the players they signed in the summer fitted in with the lower wage framework - from lower divisions or from European "selling" leagues.
It's one thing spending 20m, but it is another entirely spending that some of money and being limited to 20k a week salary players.
That's the problem. Too much wage bill slashing, way, way too quickly.
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How Lambert is still in charge defies belief IMHO
Agree, Herbert would have pulled the trigger before driving home from Stamford Bridge.
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It's not his fault that several players were out of contract, others have been injured and Petrov go ill. We've had to create almost an entire new team while playing competitive games.
I think that's right but the folly lies in creating almost an entire new team for the Premier League almost entirely out of players who have never played in it before, and in some cases never at that standard.
It was always going to be a struggle but I think even the ardent optimists never saw it being quite as bad as this.
I know what you mean Hilts. I was saying to Chico at Millwall that I thought we were really poor at W Ham on the opening day and a lot of people seemed very encouraged by the fact we were able to keep possession by going sideways and backwards a lot. I was just miffed that we lost to an average team.
I thought it would be a long hard slog but I truly didn't expect anything like this season.
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If PL manages to get 2 or 3 in this week I think we have a glimmer. It's a huge ask but a win on Tues and a draw at Everton would make a massive difference. As you can see, I've started a new positive approach to my thinking as my previous misery was getting me down. We can do this!
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How Lambert is still in charge defies belief IMHO
Agree, Herbert would have pulled the trigger before driving home from Stamford Bridge.
Oh, yes, who can forget how much we loved Doug's decisive leadership at the time. I'll never forget the wailing and crying when he left.
And who would Doug have replaced him with?
"Manager deserves the sack" is one thing.
"Sacking the manager is the best thing for the club, right now" is another entirely, and that's what a lot of people don't seem to get.
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How Lambert is still in charge defies belief IMHO
Agree, Herbert would have pulled the trigger before driving home from Stamford Bridge.
Oh, yes, who can forget how much we loved Doug's decisive leadership at the time. I'll never forget the wailing and crying when he left.
And who would Doug have replaced him with?
"Manager deserves the sack" is one thing.
"Sacking the manager is the best thing for the club, right now" is another entirely, and that's what a lot of people don't seem to get.
Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
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One thing you see a lot on here is "Manager X would do better than Lambert", but that is not the point. Manager X, Y or Z would have to do significantly better than Lambert if we are to stay up under these circumstances. A bit better won't be enough.
well not really that much better, just as bad/better as TSM. we've had 20m spent on the squad since he limped to the finish line last May. If we have a weaker squad of players now then that's down to Lambchop. If we haven't then their performances are also down to lampchop.
Anyway, we're going over old ground here. Sooner or later those saying In or out will be overtaken by events and will be forced to concede they are wrong. I hope its the outs because if you're wrong we'll be down.
It's not his fault that several players were out of contract, others have been injured and Petrov go ill. We've had to create almost an entire new team while playing competitive games.
But then Lambert went out and spent £20m on (mostly) a pile of crap.
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Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
Yes, I would stick with him.
It's one of those emotive questions, based on the suggestion we should be looking for revenge on the bloke who put us down, but let me ask you this, if we did go down, what sort of names do you think we'd be looking at as manager to replace him?
And, let's not forget, go down and the players you mentioned who'd be offski, would still be offski no matter who the new manager was.
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One thing you see a lot on here is "Manager X would do better than Lambert", but that is not the point. Manager X, Y or Z would have to do significantly better than Lambert if we are to stay up under these circumstances. A bit better won't be enough.
well not really that much better, just as bad/better as TSM. we've had 20m spent on the squad since he limped to the finish line last May. If we have a weaker squad of players now then that's down to Lambchop. If we haven't then their performances are also down to lampchop.
Anyway, we're going over old ground here. Sooner or later those saying In or out will be overtaken by events and will be forced to concede they are wrong. I hope its the outs because if you're wrong we'll be down.
It's not his fault that several players were out of contract, others have been injured and Petrov go ill. We've had to create almost an entire new team while playing competitive games.
But then Lambert went out and spent £20m on (mostly) a pile of crap.
"Mostly a pile of crap"?
Stop and think for a moment. It's not actually true.
Excellent - Benteke (and if we sold him, we'd probably get the entire 20m outlay back).
Very promising - Westwood
Decent - Vlaar, Lowton
Questionable - KEA
Shit - Bennett
Too early to say - Bowery.
The players who have let us down have not been his signings, by and large, they have been the same familiar faces from seasons gone by.
The likes of N'Zogbia, who has put in a handful of decent performances of late, but until then, done nothing.
Stephen Ireland, disappointing.
Barry Bannan - getting to the point where he's no longer a kid, disappointing.
Holman - what does he actually do?
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Lamberts bizarre tactics and substitutions have cost us points and a cup final Taking N'Zogbia off against West Brom springs to mind and removing the midfield against Bradford,where all we needed to do was keep calm and carry on as we had been. He panics when things go wrong and this transmits to the players.He doesn't appear to be able to motivate either and I have never been keen on managers that barely spend any time actually coaching. He's been a complete and utter disaster.Of all the new managers ,we've ended up with the absolute duffer when I thought we had the best one.It's very depressing and I just can't see him turning it round here or in the Championship
Its probably too late to sack him now but future events may change that.
I'd go back and try and get OGS if we get relegated as PL will just get sacked when we're midtable in the Championship Relegated managers rarely bring a club back up again and OGS style of play wouldn't be a million miles from what PL is trying but failing to do
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One thing you see a lot on here is "Manager X would do better than Lambert", but that is not the point. Manager X, Y or Z would have to do significantly better than Lambert if we are to stay up under these circumstances. A bit better won't be enough.
well not really that much better, just as bad/better as TSM. we've had 20m spent on the squad since he limped to the finish line last May. If we have a weaker squad of players now then that's down to Lambchop. If we haven't then their performances are also down to lampchop.
Anyway, we're going over old ground here. Sooner or later those saying In or out will be overtaken by events and will be forced to concede they are wrong. I hope its the outs because if you're wrong we'll be down.
It's not his fault that several players were out of contract, others have been injured and Petrov go ill. We've had to create almost an entire new team while playing competitive games.
But then Lambert went out and spent £20m on (mostly) a pile of crap.
"Mostly a pile of crap"?
Stop and think for a moment. It's not actually true.
Excellent - Benteke (and if we sold him, we'd probably get the entire 20m outlay back).
Very promising - Westwood
Decent - Vlaar, Lowton
Questionable - KEA
Shit - Bennett
Too early to say - Bowery.
It's all about opinions. Benteke aside, not one of one players you mention are PL standard. That's why we're spiralling toward the drop.
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It's not his signings, it's his tactics and approach to defending that concerns me.
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It's all about opinions. Benteke aside, not one of one players you mention are PL standard. That's why we're spiralling toward the drop.
I thought you said "pile of shite" rather than "not PL standard"
I'd suggest Vlaar is, what with him being a Dutch international, and Westwood has looked very comfortable, wouldn't you agree? And Lowton, whilst unspectacular, has done ok.
It's your "everything is shit" line again. There are good points to be made about how shit we are, but they get drowned out in the hyperbolic nonsense you come out with.
Our problem is that this season, we have found ourselves playing too many up and coming young players *at the same time*. Just as 11 promising players thrown together does not mean you have a promising "team", the team struggling does not mean that all the players in it are shite.
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Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
Yes, I would stick with him.
It's one of those emotive questions, based on the suggestion we should be looking for revenge on the bloke who put us down, but let me ask you this, if we did go down, what sort of names do you think we'd be looking at as manager to replace him?
And, let's not forget, go down and the players you mentioned who'd be offski, would still be offski no matter who the new manager was.
hmmm. So you want a guy in charge who's got no record of motivating or even getting organised the sorry collection of players still remaining and with no money to buy new ones. Isn't that where we are now?
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It's not his signings, it's his tactics and approach to defending that concerns me.
i think everyone is concerned with the way we defend. The thing is, it has been like that for three entire years. Surely at some point you have to stop changing the manager in the hope it improves something, and give one man the time to sort it. Five months of the season is not enough.
There is no way I am going to make out like Lambert is at fault for nothing - he certainly is at fault, for a lot of things - but, surely, at some point, we have to draw a line in the sand and say we can't burn even more money sacking and replacing managers. it hasn't worked for the last three years, and it won't work now.
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It's all about opinions. Benteke aside, not one of one players you mention are PL standard. That's why we're spiralling toward the drop.
I thought you said "pile of shite" rather than "not PL standard"
I'd suggest Vlaar is, what with him being a Dutch international, and Westwood has looked very comfortable, wouldn't you agree? And Lowton, whilst unspectacular, has done ok.
It's your "everything is shit" line again. There are good points to be made about how shit we are, but they get drowned out in the hyperbolic nonsense you come out with.
Our problem is that this season, we have found ourselves playing too many up and coming young players *at the same time*. Just as 11 promising players thrown together does not mean you have a promising "team", the team struggling does not mean that all the players in it are shite.
Brother, once again you tell it like it is.
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Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
Yes, I would stick with him.
It's one of those emotive questions, based on the suggestion we should be looking for revenge on the bloke who put us down, but let me ask you this, if we did go down, what sort of names do you think we'd be looking at as manager to replace him?
And, let's not forget, go down and the players you mentioned who'd be offski, would still be offski no matter who the new manager was.
hmmm. So you want a guy in charge who's got no record of motivating or even getting organised the sorry collection of players still remaining and with no money to buy new ones. Isn't that where we are now?
I would stick with a guy who has proven pedigree of getting teams promoted.
I will ask you again - who would you look to replace him with, if we got relegated?
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It's hard to judge, apart from Benteke. They've all showed promise at various times, even Bennett, but you can't get away from the fact that they make up a big part of a very poor side.
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Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
Yes, I would stick with him.
It's one of those emotive questions, based on the suggestion we should be looking for revenge on the bloke who put us down, but let me ask you this, if we did go down, what sort of names do you think we'd be looking at as manager to replace him?
And, let's not forget, go down and the players you mentioned who'd be offski, would still be offski no matter who the new manager was.
hmmm. So you want a guy in charge who's got no record of motivating or even getting organised the sorry collection of players still remaining and with no money to buy new ones. Isn't that where we are now?
The new manager would have no record of motivating this raggady-arsed lot. And he'd have no money to spend.
So, all in all, we'd just be a few million worse of in compo.
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It's all about opinions. Benteke aside, not one of one players you mention are PL standard. That's why we're spiralling toward the drop.
I thought you said "pile of shite" rather than "not PL standard"
I'd suggest Vlaar is, what with him being a Dutch international, and Westwood has looked very comfortable, wouldn't you agree? And Lowton, whilst unspectacular, has done ok.
It's your "everything is shit" line again. There are good points to be made about how shit we are, but they get drowned out in the hyperbolic nonsense you come out with.
Our problem is that this season, we have found ourselves playing too many up and coming young players *at the same time*. Just as 11 promising players thrown together does not mean you have a promising "team", the team struggling does not mean that all the players in it are shite.
Brother, once again you tell it like it is.
Honestly, Lee, I feel like I must look like I am dogmatically defending the manager, and that I think he's without fault. I don't. Far from it. The "tactics" for the last thirty minutes against Bradford, for example, were inexplicable.
I just think that it's easy to rail off and rant about the manager needing to be sacked, but another to be able to answer the question "what next".
In all the discussion on here, whenever the question has been asked re who we replace him with, the only single palatable answer is Roberto Di Matteo, a manager who has a correspoindingly shit record when it comes to organising a defence.
It is totally, totally underwhelming. Look past RDM and we're on to Roy Keane, Alan Curbishley, or some randomly put together dream teams of previous Villa players who apparently "love the Villa".
It's deluded nonsense.
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I would stick with a guy who has proven pedigree of getting teams promoted.
I will ask you again - who would you look to replace him with, if we got relegated?
Let's say we get relegated and, for sake of argument, Lambert takes us straight back up. I don't see our financial position having changed much in 18 months, most of our better players will have moved on and, if they're replaced at all, will have been replaced by inferior players.
Does Lambert then get a second crack at managing us in the Premier League? I supposed he would, at least initially.
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Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
Yes, I would stick with him.
It's one of those emotive questions, based on the suggestion we should be looking for revenge on the bloke who put us down, but let me ask you this, if we did go down, what sort of names do you think we'd be looking at as manager to replace him?
And, let's not forget, go down and the players you mentioned who'd be offski, would still be offski no matter who the new manager was.
hmmm. So you want a guy in charge who's got no record of motivating or even getting organised the sorry collection of players still remaining and with no money to buy new ones. Isn't that where we are now?
I would stick with a guy who has proven pedigree of getting teams promoted.
I will ask you again - who would you look to replace him with, if we got relegated?
Anyone with a record of promotion to the PL and not taking Aston Villa down in the process. It's not a very exclusive club frankly.
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It's hard to judge, apart from Benteke. They've all showed promise at various times, even Bennett, but you can't get away from the fact that they make up a big part of a very poor side.
True.
My major concerns lie with the players who've been with us through the last three seasons (including the 'young' players).
They're just programmed to lose, and it seems to be rubbing off on our new lads.
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It's hard to judge, apart from Benteke. They've all showed promise at various times, even Bennett, but you can't get away from the fact that they make up a big part of a very poor side.
Too many of them used at the same time, too often. That's been the problem. They're far from "mostly shite" which is what s_h seems to think.
I'd say his 20m spent compares very favourably to, say, McLeish with his, what, 18m (10 on CNZ, 4 on Hutton, 4 on Given). How much would we get back if we flogged them tomorrow?
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Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
Yes, I would stick with him.
It's one of those emotive questions, based on the suggestion we should be looking for revenge on the bloke who put us down, but let me ask you this, if we did go down, what sort of names do you think we'd be looking at as manager to replace him?
And, let's not forget, go down and the players you mentioned who'd be offski, would still be offski no matter who the new manager was.
hmmm. So you want a guy in charge who's got no record of motivating or even getting organised the sorry collection of players still remaining and with no money to buy new ones. Isn't that where we are now?
I would stick with a guy who has proven pedigree of getting teams promoted.
I will ask you again - who would you look to replace him with, if we got relegated?
Anyone with a record of promotion to the PL and not taking Aston Villa down in the process. It's not a very exclusive club frankly.
So, go on then, who?
You're the chairman. We get relegated. You need a manager who can get us back up, with a squad someone else put together, and not much money to spend
Who do you approach?
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Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
Yes, I would stick with him.
It's one of those emotive questions, based on the suggestion we should be looking for revenge on the bloke who put us down, but let me ask you this, if we did go down, what sort of names do you think we'd be looking at as manager to replace him?
And, let's not forget, go down and the players you mentioned who'd be offski, would still be offski no matter who the new manager was.
hmmm. So you want a guy in charge who's got no record of motivating or even getting organised the sorry collection of players still remaining and with no money to buy new ones. Isn't that where we are now?
I would stick with a guy who has proven pedigree of getting teams promoted.
I will ask you again - who would you look to replace him with, if we got relegated?
Anyone with a record of promotion to the PL and not taking Aston Villa down in the process. It's not a very exclusive club frankly.
I can think of a Scottish manger that would fit that bill perfectly.
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Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
Yes, I would stick with him.
It's one of those emotive questions, based on the suggestion we should be looking for revenge on the bloke who put us down, but let me ask you this, if we did go down, what sort of names do you think we'd be looking at as manager to replace him?
And, let's not forget, go down and the players you mentioned who'd be offski, would still be offski no matter who the new manager was.
hmmm. So you want a guy in charge who's got no record of motivating or even getting organised the sorry collection of players still remaining and with no money to buy new ones. Isn't that where we are now?
The new manager would have no record of motivating this raggady-arsed lot. And he'd have no money to spend.
So, all in all, we'd just be a few million worse of in compo.
Maybe so if we let him take us down. A lot of people seem to be quite happy to jump off the cliff following lambert and start again at the bottom.. The outs are saying we're not doomed if a new guy comes in
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I would stick with a guy who has proven pedigree of getting teams promoted.
I will ask you again - who would you look to replace him with, if we got relegated?
Let's say we get relegated and, for sake of argument, Lambert takes us straight back up. I don't see our financial position having changed much in 18 months, most of our better players will have moved on and, if they're replaced at all, will have been replaced by inferior players.
Does Lambert then get a second crack at managing us in the Premier League? I supposed he would, at least initially.
I'd imagine our financial position would change markedly. For a start, how many of the big wage players would still be here?
I appreciate we'd lose our better players, so Benteke would be gone, but if you're accepting that, then you also have to imagine the likes of Given and Bent and Ireland will be off, too. Our wage bill would be reduced hugely.
We would then be going up into a PL with the new huge TV money.
If you're adamant our financial situation would still be terrible, then sacking the manager is going to sap away even more cash.
Ultimately, we'd have a choice. Sack the incumbent and look for a new man, or keep him and let him continue what he has started. We'll have plenty of pain, but I refuse to believe there would be no gain made.
So, we sack him, who do we look to then?
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Trying to get greg to name names is nigh-on impossible, he avoids it with the skill and expertise of a politician.
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It's all about opinions. Benteke aside, not one of one players you mention are PL standard. That's why we're spiralling toward the drop.
I thought you said "pile of shite" rather than "not PL standard"
I'd suggest Vlaar is, what with him being a Dutch international, and Westwood has looked very comfortable, wouldn't you agree? And Lowton, whilst unspectacular, has done ok.
It's your "everything is shit" line again. There are good points to be made about how shit we are, but they get drowned out in the hyperbolic nonsense you come out with.
Our problem is that this season, we have found ourselves playing too many up and coming young players *at the same time*. Just as 11 promising players thrown together does not mean you have a promising "team", the team struggling does not mean that all the players in it are shite.
I don't know if you've noticed but this is quite possibly, if not definitely the worst season the Villa have endured for for decades. I know you're desperately trying to find a positive somewhere amongst the doom. Perhaps it was because you fell for the "young and hungry" lie at the start of the season, but whatever it is its baffling.
As I said, it's my opinion that Benteke aside, not one of those players are fit for the PL, and I would go as far to say that they're a pile of shit. Even Blamongue Vlaar.
The manager isn't up to the job. He's in his wisdom thought it was a good idea to "strengthen" a squad who struggled last season with a bunch of lower league players and relatively cheap foreigners. It was absolute madness and boy are we suffering for it now.
Let's hope that a miracle happens and we stay up. But whatever happens he doesn't deserve to be manager of our great club.
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Tell e who we'd get in and I'll tell you if it would be ok to get rid.
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Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
Yes, I would stick with him.
It's one of those emotive questions, based on the suggestion we should be looking for revenge on the bloke who put us down, but let me ask you this, if we did go down, what sort of names do you think we'd be looking at as manager to replace him?
And, let's not forget, go down and the players you mentioned who'd be offski, would still be offski no matter who the new manager was.
hmmm. So you want a guy in charge who's got no record of motivating or even getting organised the sorry collection of players still remaining and with no money to buy new ones. Isn't that where we are now?
I would stick with a guy who has proven pedigree of getting teams promoted.
I will ask you again - who would you look to replace him with, if we got relegated?
Anyone with a record of promotion to the PL and not taking Aston Villa down in the process. It's not a very exclusive club frankly.
So, go on then, who?
You're the chairman. We get relegated. You need a manager who can get us back up, with a squad someone else put together, and not much money to spend
Who do you approach?
There's literally loads Paulie. Just look at the clubs who've got promoted to the PL in the last 10 years for starters. That's the point - you seem to think Lambert has this ace record and it isn't.
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I can accept losing. It's the manner of the defeats that bothers me. That we are mind numbingly inept when we concede and that the opposition knows wihout any significant scouting how to hurt us. It's like the Empire placing the core to the Death Star outside with a big neon sign pointing down to it for the rebels to aim at. It's not even difficult. Just put a big clumsy fucker out there at corners and something good will happen for them. When you have deficiencies like that it makes it hard to build confidence amongst players who are lacking it and leadership generally to begin with
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In all the discussion on here, whenever the question has been asked re who we replace him with, the only single palatable answer is Roberto Di Matteo, a manager who has a correspoindingly shit record when it comes to organising a defence.
It is totally, totally underwhelming. Look past RDM and we're on to Roy Keane, Alan Curbishley, or some randomly put together dream teams of previous Villa players who apparently "love the Villa".
It's deluded nonsense.
I see your point but as things stand we're going to need to improve out of sight just to be competitive, let alone start winning the games that would keep us up. Without reinforcement it's difficult to see that happening.
And if we do go down, and lose the two or three best players out of side, is Lambert really the best man to get us back up again? Whoever is in charge is going to have to be a hell of a motivator because he's not going to have much quality at his disposal. Is Lambert really that inspirational figure we'll need? There's pretty much fuck all evidence of that this season.
My concern is that come the end of the season, if we do go down, will we look back and say did the club try everything it could to keep us up?
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It's all about opinions. Benteke aside, not one of one players you mention are PL standard. That's why we're spiralling toward the drop.
I thought you said "pile of shite" rather than "not PL standard"
I'd suggest Vlaar is, what with him being a Dutch international, and Westwood has looked very comfortable, wouldn't you agree? And Lowton, whilst unspectacular, has done ok.
It's your "everything is shit" line again. There are good points to be made about how shit we are, but they get drowned out in the hyperbolic nonsense you come out with.
Our problem is that this season, we have found ourselves playing too many up and coming young players *at the same time*. Just as 11 promising players thrown together does not mean you have a promising "team", the team struggling does not mean that all the players in it are shite.
I don't know if you've noticed but this is quite possibly, if not definitely the worst season the Villa have endured for for decades. I know you're desperately trying to find a positive somewhere amongst the doom. Perhaps it was because you fell for the "young and hungry" lie at the start of the season, but whatever it is its baffling.
As I said, it's my opinion that Benteke aside, not one of those players are fit for the PL, and I would go as far to say that they're a pile of shit. Even Blamongue Vlaar.
The manager isn't up to the job. He's in his wisdom thought it was a good idea to "strengthen" a squad who struggled last season with a bunch of lower league players and relatively cheap foreigners. It was absolute madness and boy are we suffering for it now.
Let's hope that a miracle happens and we stay up. But whatever happens he doesn't deserve to be manager of our great club.
I'm sorry, and I'm not digging you saunders_heroes, but that attempt at spelling blancmange is just piss funny.
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I agree that some of Lambert's tactics and substitutions have been very questionable at times this season, but I think that some people forget that he is an inexperienced manager (particularly at this level) and is himself still learning his trade.
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I don't know if you've noticed but this is quite possibly, if not definitely the worst season the Villa have endured for for decades. I know you're desperately trying to find a positive somewhere amongst the doom. Perhaps it was because you fell for the "young and hungry" lie at the start of the season, but whatever it is its baffling.
Jesus Christ. Here we go again. That patronising "dunno if you've seen or not, but we're shit". Of course I've fucking seen. I've had the same miserable weekends you have, I've had the same disbelief at some of the performances and results.
The manager isn't up to the job. He's in his wisdom thought it was a good idea to "strengthen" a squad who struggled last season with a bunch of lower league players and relatively cheap foreigners. It was absolute madness and boy are we suffering for it now.
Let's hope that a miracle happens and we stay up. But whatever happens he doesn't deserve to be manager of our great club.
I'm pretty sure I've read you (repeatedly) slagging off Lerner for the wage bill policy that has led us to this squad. so it's all Lambert's fault, but it is also all Lerner's fault? Make your mind up.
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Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
Yes, I would stick with him.
It's one of those emotive questions, based on the suggestion we should be looking for revenge on the bloke who put us down, but let me ask you this, if we did go down, what sort of names do you think we'd be looking at as manager to replace him?
And, let's not forget, go down and the players you mentioned who'd be offski, would still be offski no matter who the new manager was.
hmmm. So you want a guy in charge who's got no record of motivating or even getting organised the sorry collection of players still remaining and with no money to buy new ones. Isn't that where we are now?
I would stick with a guy who has proven pedigree of getting teams promoted.
I will ask you again - who would you look to replace him with, if we got relegated?
Anyone with a record of promotion to the PL and not taking Aston Villa down in the process. It's not a very exclusive club frankly.
Exactly. What's so impressive in taking one step backward then one step forward?
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Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
Yes, I would stick with him.
It's one of those emotive questions, based on the suggestion we should be looking for revenge on the bloke who put us down, but let me ask you this, if we did go down, what sort of names do you think we'd be looking at as manager to replace him?
And, let's not forget, go down and the players you mentioned who'd be offski, would still be offski no matter who the new manager was.
hmmm. So you want a guy in charge who's got no record of motivating or even getting organised the sorry collection of players still remaining and with no money to buy new ones. Isn't that where we are now?
I would stick with a guy who has proven pedigree of getting teams promoted.
I will ask you again - who would you look to replace him with, if we got relegated?
Anyone with a record of promotion to the PL and not taking Aston Villa down in the process. It's not a very exclusive club frankly.
I can think of a Scottish manger that would fit that bill perfectly.
well yes. TSM's record would be much better than Lambchop's if its not already
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It's all about opinions. Benteke aside, not one of one players you mention are PL standard. That's why we're spiralling toward the drop.
I thought you said "pile of shite" rather than "not PL standard"
I'd suggest Vlaar is, what with him being a Dutch international, and Westwood has looked very comfortable, wouldn't you agree? And Lowton, whilst unspectacular, has done ok.
It's your "everything is shit" line again. There are good points to be made about how shit we are, but they get drowned out in the hyperbolic nonsense you come out with.
Our problem is that this season, we have found ourselves playing too many up and coming young players *at the same time*. Just as 11 promising players thrown together does not mean you have a promising "team", the team struggling does not mean that all the players in it are shite.
I don't know if you've noticed but this is quite possibly, if not definitely the worst season the Villa have endured for for decades. I know you're desperately trying to find a positive somewhere amongst the doom. Perhaps it was because you fell for the "young and hungry" lie at the start of the season, but whatever it is its baffling.
As I said, it's my opinion that Benteke aside, not one of those players are fit for the PL, and I would go as far to say that they're a pile of shit. Even Blamongue Vlaar.
The manager isn't up to the job. He's in his wisdom thought it was a good idea to "strengthen" a squad who struggled last season with a bunch of lower league players and relatively cheap foreigners. It was absolute madness and boy are we suffering for it now.
Let's hope that a miracle happens and we stay up. But whatever happens he doesn't deserve to be manager of our great club.
I'm sorry, and I'm not digging you saunders_heroes, but that attempt at spelling blancmange is just piss funny.
I tried it 3 different ways and it still didnt look right. :-)
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I'm amazed anyone can think that Vlaar, Lowton, Guzan and Westwood are a pile of shit.
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It's all about opinions. Benteke aside, not one of one players you mention are PL standard. That's why we're spiralling toward the drop.
I thought you said "pile of shite" rather than "not PL standard"
I'd suggest Vlaar is, what with him being a Dutch international, and Westwood has looked very comfortable, wouldn't you agree? And Lowton, whilst unspectacular, has done ok.
It's your "everything is shit" line again. There are good points to be made about how shit we are, but they get drowned out in the hyperbolic nonsense you come out with.
Our problem is that this season, we have found ourselves playing too many up and coming young players *at the same time*. Just as 11 promising players thrown together does not mean you have a promising "team", the team struggling does not mean that all the players in it are shite.
I don't know if you've noticed but this is quite possibly, if not definitely the worst season the Villa have endured for for decades. I know you're desperately trying to find a positive somewhere amongst the doom. Perhaps it was because you fell for the "young and hungry" lie at the start of the season, but whatever it is its baffling.
As I said, it's my opinion that Benteke aside, not one of those players are fit for the PL, and I would go as far to say that they're a pile of shit. Even Blamongue Vlaar.
The manager isn't up to the job. He's in his wisdom thought it was a good idea to "strengthen" a squad who struggled last season with a bunch of lower league players and relatively cheap foreigners. It was absolute madness and boy are we suffering for it now.
Let's hope that a miracle happens and we stay up. But whatever happens he doesn't deserve to be manager of our great club.
I'm sorry, and I'm not digging you saunders_heroes, but that attempt at spelling blancmange is just piss funny.
I tried it 3 different ways and it still didnt look right. :-)
Google it you nutter! Use the tools man!
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How do you turn a blind eye to Lamberts naive, god awful tactics
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I don't know if you've noticed but this is quite possibly, if not definitely the worst season the Villa have endured for for decades. I know you're desperately trying to find a positive somewhere amongst the doom. Perhaps it was because you fell for the "young and hungry" lie at the start of the season, but whatever it is its baffling.
Jesus Christ. Here we go again. That patronising "dunno if you've seen or not, but we're shit". Of course I've fucking seen. I've had the same miserable weekends you have, I've had the same disbelief at some of the performances and results.
The manager isn't up to the job. He's in his wisdom thought it was a good idea to "strengthen" a squad who struggled last season with a bunch of lower league players and relatively cheap foreigners. It was absolute madness and boy are we suffering for it now.
Let's hope that a miracle happens and we stay up. But whatever happens he doesn't deserve to be manager of our great club.
I'm pretty sure I've read you (repeatedly) slagging off Lerner for the wage bill policy that has led us to this squad. so it's all Lambert's fault, but it is also all Lerner's fault? Make your mind up.
First of all, patronising? You're up there with the best when it comes to that.
Secondly, as I've said on here many times, Lerner is the number 1 problem at Villa. That doesn't mean Lambert should get away with the diabolical job he's doing. Christ, even McLeish produced better than this.
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In all the discussion on here, whenever the question has been asked re who we replace him with, the only single palatable answer is Roberto Di Matteo, a manager who has a correspoindingly shit record when it comes to organising a defence.
It is totally, totally underwhelming. Look past RDM and we're on to Roy Keane, Alan Curbishley, or some randomly put together dream teams of previous Villa players who apparently "love the Villa".
It's deluded nonsense.
I see your point but as things stand we're going to need to improve out of sight just to be competitive, let alone start winning the games that would keep us up. Without reinforcement it's difficult to see that happening.
And if we do go down, and lose the two or three best players out of side, is Lambert really the best man to get us back up again? Whoever is in charge is going to have to be a hell of a motivator because he's not going to have much quality at his disposal. Is Lambert really that inspirational figure we'll need? There's pretty much fuck all evidence of that this season.
My concern is that come the end of the season, if we do go down, will we look back and say did the club try everything it could to keep us up?
re your last point, I totally agree, the club won't have done enough to keep us up. They've accepted it. They've surrendered. The transfer market activity shows that.
I also agree we need to improve substantially to stay up, we need to win four or five games, and currently it looks like that'd take us four years, not four months.
But once again, we sack the manager, we have to replace him, and who with? Is there anyone out there more likely to bring about that level of improvement?
My argument is that, at certain points this season - even this week - we have played a half here and there of very good football, of the type that, if we managed to string a couple together, would get us some decent results.
I would rather back the manager with £££ now and trust him to manage that than sack him, burn yet more money on compensation, and hope for the best with the new bloke.
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Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
Yes, I would stick with him.
It's one of those emotive questions, based on the suggestion we should be looking for revenge on the bloke who put us down, but let me ask you this, if we did go down, what sort of names do you think we'd be looking at as manager to replace him?
And, let's not forget, go down and the players you mentioned who'd be offski, would still be offski no matter who the new manager was.
hmmm. So you want a guy in charge who's got no record of motivating or even getting organised the sorry collection of players still remaining and with no money to buy new ones. Isn't that where we are now?
I would stick with a guy who has proven pedigree of getting teams promoted.
I will ask you again - who would you look to replace him with, if we got relegated?
Anyone with a record of promotion to the PL and not taking Aston Villa down in the process. It's not a very exclusive club frankly.
So, go on then, who?
You're the chairman. We get relegated. You need a manager who can get us back up, with a squad someone else put together, and not much money to spend
Who do you approach?
There's literally loads Paulie. Just look at the clubs who've got promoted to the PL in the last 10 years for starters. That's the point - you seem to think Lambert has this ace record and it isn't.
Name somebody who would be good enough and would want to join a club that possibly won't give them any money?
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Thank McGrath s_h pointed out that this season is dreadful. I was convinced it was a stonkingly good one until I read his post. *winky*
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I don't see Lambert turning this around. But he wasn't sacked last week so it looks likely that he will stay, it would make no sense changing managers at the end of the window.
There is a case for then giving him the opportunity to get us back up but I just can't see Villa fans having the patience for that. We will want our pound of flesh. Historically that's what we do.
This is all so bloody depressing, perhaps I should switch to the 'we will be fine' way of thinking. For those of you who have seen Life of Pi perhaps that's the answer, let's all believe in the wonderful version of events not the grim version!
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I'm amazed anyone can think that Vlaar, Lowton, Guzan and Westwood are a pile of shit.
Yes it's staggering isn't it! What with the wonderful consistent performances they've given this season.
PS - Claiming Guzan as Lambert signing is stretching it a bit. He was barely out the door for a fortnight.
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First of all, patronising? You're up there with the best when it comes to that.
You make it difficult not to, with your enraged foot-stamping.
Secondly, as I've said on here many times, Lerner is the number 1 problem at Villa. That doesn't mean Lambert should get away with the diabolical job he's doing. Christ, even McLeish produced better than this.
That's precisely what I mean. A few posts ago it was Lambert's fault. Now it's Lerner's fault. And if you bothered to read anything I posted, you'd see I have gone nowhere near suggesting Lambert is blameless. Not even remotely.
So, once again, I'll ask both you and Greg - we go down, we sack Lambert, who do we appoint then?
And they'll have even less money to play with, as we will have burned another 3m or so getting shot of Lambert and Culverhouse.
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I'm amazed anyone can think that Vlaar, Lowton, Guzan and Westwood are a pile of shit.
Yes it's staggering isn't it! What with the wonderful consistent performances they've given this season.
PS - Claiming Guzan as Lambert signing is stretching it a bit. He was barely out the door for a fortnight.
He was out the door and gone. Lambert got him back.
So, you're sticking by your assertion that Vlaar, Lowton, Westwood and Guzan are all shite, are you?
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It's hard to judge, apart from Benteke. They've all showed promise at various times, even Bennett, but you can't get away from the fact that they make up a big part of a very poor side.
Some of them like Lowton and Westwood show promise, but they're not Premier League quality yet. I watched the 'highlights' of the WBA game again, and Lowton does really badly in the lead up to one of their goals. He loses his man completely, then on trying to catch the player again, runs straight into the back of another player while his target is now setting up the goal. I know that's unfairly picking on one player/game to make a point, but that's what you get with young players who until recently were plying their trade in the lower divisions. Same with Westwood, he's neat and tidy and tries to keep things going, but how much protection does he afford the defence, and how many chances has he set up? They're the sort of players who if they were playing for Everton or Spurs, would be making a handful of sub appearances this season, or else being sent out on loan, but they obviously form the spine of our team and it's too much, too soon for them.
Lambert has therefore assembled a team that is ill-equipped for the Premier League, and it has shown for 90% of this season. Our best managers in the past have built a solid defence as the bedrock from which to improve things, but Lambert hasn't got a bloody clue where that's concerned. If we go down, I'd have no faith in him bringing us back up, and as Bolton found with Owen Coyle, just because somebody's managed it once, doesn't mean they can do it again with a different team and set of circumstances. They way Lambert has performed this season I'd be more concerned about his ability to keep us in the Championship and out of League 1.
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I'm amazed anyone can think that Vlaar, Lowton, Guzan and Westwood are a pile of shit.
Yes it's staggering isn't it! What with the wonderful consistent performances they've given this season.
PS - Claiming Guzan as Lambert signing is stretching it a bit. He was barely out the door for a fortnight.
Yes, it is staggering, that's why I said I was amazed anyone could think that.
P.s. How is it stretching it a bit? Guzan was no longer a Villa player until Lambert signed him.
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I'm amazed anyone can think that Vlaar, Lowton, Guzan and Westwood are a pile of shit.
Yes it's staggering isn't it! What with the wonderful consistent performances they've given this season.
PS - Claiming Guzan as Lambert signing is stretching it a bit. He was barely out the door for a fortnight.
Saunders you're wrong about all of them, they're not shit at all. Vlaar when match fit is a good player, Lowton has been very good but is tired and Westwood looks a great prospect. I agree that Lambert's defending and tactics have been woeful a lot of the time but most of his signings look good.
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Lowton has been shocking since late Dec, Guzan and Vlaar deserve more time to prove themselves
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I put in an earlier post I'd go back and get OGS. His style of play wouldn't be a million miles away from what PL is trying but failing to implement.He could cut his teeth with us in the Championship
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Google it you nutter! Use the tools man!
It's too stressful. I think I'll refer to him as Semolina Ron from now on. ;-)
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Sorry, but Vlaar IS shit. And not at all hard.
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My scrolling thumb is begging you all to quit the bloody quotathons. Please!
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re your last point, I totally agree, the club won't have done enough to keep us up. They've accepted it. They've surrendered. The transfer market activity shows that.
I also agree we need to improve substantially to stay up, we need to win four or five games, and currently it looks like that'd take us four years, not four months.
But once again, we sack the manager, we have to replace him, and who with? Is there anyone out there more likely to bring about that level of improvement?
My argument is that, at certain points this season - even this week - we have played a half here and there of very good football, of the type that, if we managed to string a couple together, would get us some decent results.
I would rather back the manager with £££ now and trust him to manage that than sack him, burn yet more money on compensation, and hope for the best with the new bloke.
You have a point, certainly, but it just seems counter-intuitive to me that we sack all the blokes who don't get us relegated and yet stick by the bloke who does / might. I guess it's par for the course with this screwy club.
I just don't buy the argument that there are no alternatives, period. Let's face it, world football is overflowing with alternatives. I would hope (while accepting it is a faint hope) that the club has some sort of succession plan, in the event that Lambert falls under a bus / falls ill / turns out to be shit.
I don't buy either that Lambert is the only man who could bring us back up. I know he's been dealt a rough hand at the Villa but some of his decision making has been terrible. There are lots of managers out there who can get teams promoted - three of them do it every season.
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Some of them like Lowton and Westwood show promise, but they're not Premier League quality yet.
The problem we have had is that we have played like, say, Nathan Baker, who is a very promising centre half but then he's playing alongside Ciaran Clark, who's a promising player, but not necessarily at CH. Then he's maybe alongside Chris Herd, who is a promising young player, but again, not a centre half.
Then we stick them with Matt Lowton, who I think has done well, but again, is a young player feeling his way into this league. On the other side, there's Joe Bennett, who is again, young, and struggling.
It's too many promising players thrown into it all at the same time, and their confidence is getting destroyed.
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Serious question - what is Lambert good at? I have heard some fairly specific criticisms but all the support seems a bit generalised. As a fence sitter who's losing faith, why should I believe?
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re your last point, I totally agree, the club won't have done enough to keep us up. They've accepted it. They've surrendered. The transfer market activity shows that.
I also agree we need to improve substantially to stay up, we need to win four or five games, and currently it looks like that'd take us four years, not four months.
But once again, we sack the manager, we have to replace him, and who with? Is there anyone out there more likely to bring about that level of improvement?
My argument is that, at certain points this season - even this week - we have played a half here and there of very good football, of the type that, if we managed to string a couple together, would get us some decent results.
I would rather back the manager with £££ now and trust him to manage that than sack him, burn yet more money on compensation, and hope for the best with the new bloke.
You have a point, certainly, but it just seems counter-intuitive to me that we sack all the blokes who don't get us relegated and yet stick by the bloke who does / might. I guess it's par for the course with this screwy club.
I just don't buy the argument that there are no alternatives, period. Let's face it, world football is overflowing with alternatives. I would hope (while accepting it is a faint hope) that the club has some sort of succession plan, in the event that Lambert falls under a bus / falls ill / turns out to be shit.
I don't buy either that Lambert is the only man who could bring us back up. I know he's been dealt a rough hand at the Villa but some of his decision making has been terrible. There are lots of managers out there who can get teams promoted - three of them do it every season.
I don't think he's the only man, far from it, I would never suggest that, but he's certainly the best qualified to start working on it quickly (in fact, he's already started his work), and keeping him means we hold on to money rather than spaffing it away compensating him.
I also agree, there are other managers out there who could get us back up, but you're relying on Randy Lerner and Paul Faulkner to identify him and get him in.
That alone is almost enough reason to stick with Lambert.
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I put in an earlier post I'd go back and get OGS. His style of play wouldn't be a million miles away from what PL is trying but failing to implement.He could cut his teeth with us in the Championship
How does that work?
He didn't want to come here when we were in the Premier League, but he's going to fancy it with less money to spend, and starting in the Championship (and after another successful season with Molde)?
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That alone is almost enough reason to stick with Lambert.
It's about the worst possible reason there could be to stick with a manager, but sadly it is relevant at this club.
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I'm amazed anyone can think that Vlaar, Lowton, Guzan and Westwood are a pile of shit.
Yes it's staggering isn't it! What with the wonderful consistent performances they've given this season.
PS - Claiming Guzan as Lambert signing is stretching it a bit. He was barely out the door for a fortnight.
He was out the door and gone. Lambert got him back.
So, you're sticking by your assertion that Vlaar, Lowton, Westwood and Guzan are all shite, are you?
Absolutely no chance is Guzan a Lambert signing. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel. I wouldn't be surprised, in fact I'm convinced It was the decision of Lerner/Faulkner to resign Guzan because they wanted Given out because of his high wages. It's not like they haven't a history of making football decisions. Didn't they sell Milner and sign Ireland without a manager at the club?
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That alone is almost enough reason to stick with Lambert.
It's about the worst possible reason there could be to stick with a manager, but sadly it is relevant at this club.
We can't ignore it's not a factor.
it was their stupid inability to realise that continuity has a value that saw them losing Houllier, looking at Martinez, then flitting to McLeish, which started this juggernaut of doom rolling so unstoppably.
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I'm amazed anyone can think that Vlaar, Lowton, Guzan and Westwood are a pile of shit.
Yes it's staggering isn't it! What with the wonderful consistent performances they've given this season.
PS - Claiming Guzan as Lambert signing is stretching it a bit. He was barely out the door for a fortnight.
He was out the door and gone. Lambert got him back.
So, you're sticking by your assertion that Vlaar, Lowton, Westwood and Guzan are all shite, are you?
Absolutely no chance is Guzan a Lambert signing. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel. I wouldn't be surprised, in fact I'm convinced It was the decision of Lerner/Faulkner to resign Guzan because they wanted Given out because of his high wages. It's not like they haven't a history of making football decisions. Didn't they sell Milner and sign Ireland without a manager at the club?
I don't really care if Guzan is or is not a Lambert signing, to be honest, but I think if you google around, you'll find that one of the first things Lambert did was to get him back.
he actually didn't even realise he'd been allowed to walk away at first, which says all you need to know about Lerner and the Boy Blunder.
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How does that work?
He didn't want to come here when we were in the Premier League, but he's going to fancy it with less money to spend, and starting in the Championship (and after another successful season with Molde)?
Less pressure, less attention.
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I'm amazed anyone can think that Vlaar, Lowton, Guzan and Westwood are a pile of shit.
Yes it's staggering isn't it! What with the wonderful consistent performances they've given this season.
PS - Claiming Guzan as Lambert signing is stretching it a bit. He was barely out the door for a fortnight.
Saunders you're wrong about all of them, they're not shit at all. Vlaar when match fit is a good player, Lowton has been very good but is tired and Westwood looks a great prospect. I agree that Lambert's defending and tactics have been woeful a lot of the time but most of his signings look good.
Vlaar's made mistakes all season. How you can claim most of Lambert's signings have looked good is beyond me.
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How does that work?
He didn't want to come here when we were in the Premier League, but he's going to fancy it with less money to spend, and starting in the Championship (and after another successful season with Molde)?
Less pressure, less attention.
That sounds a bit barrel-scrapey, to be honest.
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I'm amazed anyone can think that Vlaar, Lowton, Guzan and Westwood are a pile of shit.
Yes it's staggering isn't it! What with the wonderful consistent performances they've given this season.
PS - Claiming Guzan as Lambert signing is stretching it a bit. He was barely out the door for a fortnight.
Saunders you're wrong about all of them, they're not shit at all. Vlaar when match fit is a good player, Lowton has been very good but is tired and Westwood looks a great prospect. I agree that Lambert's defending and tactics have been woeful a lot of the time but most of his signings look good.
Vlaar's made mistakes all season. How you can claim most of Lambert's signings have looked good is beyond me.
Maybe if Vlaar hadn't been injured for weeks, you would have a point.
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My scrolling thumb is begging you all to quit the bloody quotathons. Please!
I now have a discernible groove down the right-hand side of my screen
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I'm amazed anyone can think that Vlaar, Lowton, Guzan and Westwood are a pile of shit.
Yes it's staggering isn't it! What with the wonderful consistent performances they've given this season.
PS - Claiming Guzan as Lambert signing is stretching it a bit. He was barely out the door for a fortnight.
Saunders you're wrong about all of them, they're not shit at all. Vlaar when match fit is a good player, Lowton has been very good but is tired and Westwood looks a great prospect. I agree that Lambert's defending and tactics have been woeful a lot of the time but most of his signings look good.
Vlaar's made mistakes all season. How you can claim most of Lambert's signings have looked good is beyond me.
Maybe if Vlaar hadn't been injured for weeks, you would have a point.
Indeed and Lowton has been good, but needs a break.
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Serious question - what is Lambert good at? I have heard some fairly specific criticisms but all the support seems a bit generalised. As a fence sitter who's losing faith, why should I believe?
He's certainly not good at substitutions.
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Absolutely no chance is Guzan a Lambert signing.
Who was Guzan signed to when Lambert became manager?
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Serious question - what is Lambert good at? I have heard some fairly specific criticisms but all the support seems a bit generalised. As a fence sitter who's losing faith, why should I believe?
He's certainly not good at substitutions.
Ok. Now back to your slagging off of Ron Vlaar....
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Just a question Paulie but where do you see this ending? Say we go down and Lambert isn't sacked you want him to give it a go in the championship? So next season we go with Lambert with the likes of Benteke, Wiemann and Westwood sold and you want him to try to get us up with Hutton and Co? We'll be going the other way.
Yes, I would stick with him.
It's one of those emotive questions, based on the suggestion we should be looking for revenge on the bloke who put us down, but let me ask you this, if we did go down, what sort of names do you think we'd be looking at as manager to replace him?
And, let's not forget, go down and the players you mentioned who'd be offski, would still be offski no matter who the new manager was.
hmmm. So you want a guy in charge who's got no record of motivating or even getting organised the sorry collection of players still remaining and with no money to buy new ones. Isn't that where we are now?
I would stick with a guy who has proven pedigree of getting teams promoted.
I will ask you again - who would you look to replace him with, if we got relegated?
Anyone with a record of promotion to the PL and not taking Aston Villa down in the process. It's not a very exclusive club frankly.
So, go on then, who?
You're the chairman. We get relegated. You need a manager who can get us back up, with a squad someone else put together, and not much money to spend
Who do you approach?
There's literally loads Paulie. Just look at the clubs who've got promoted to the PL in the last 10 years for starters. That's the point - you seem to think Lambert has this ace record and it isn't.
Name somebody who would be good enough and would want to join a club that possibly won't give them any money?
*sigh*
Current managers who've got promoted to the premiership on a shoestring but haven't taken down the Behemoth that is Aston Villa after spending 20m on players?
there's fucking loads and i'm not going through every team that's come up to prove it. The point remains that there's plenty of names on that list you'd say "no-way" to, and why? Because in many cases they got relegated from the Premier League which is exactly how anyone neutral would view Lambert if we went down. But far far worse, because he didn't take down a struggling blackpool or bolton or blackburn, he took a big club down after spending a fortune. Thats the point - his record would be shitter than 90% of the possible candidates
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Serious question - what is Lambert good at? I have heard some fairly specific criticisms but all the support seems a bit generalised. As a fence sitter who's losing faith, why should I believe?
He's certainly not good at substitutions.
Ok. Now back to your slagging off of Ron Vlaar....
Chocolate concrete is harder than Vlaar.
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That sounds a bit barrel-scrapey, to be honest.
Perhaps, but true. Nothing to lose by asking though.
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Serious question - what is Lambert good at? I have heard some fairly specific criticisms but all the support seems a bit generalised. As a fence sitter who's losing faith, why should I believe?
He's certainly not good at substitutions.
Ok. Now back to your slagging off of Ron Vlaar....
Chocolate concrete is harder than Vlaar.
Maybe so but chocolate concrete is really, really hard. Hence 'concrete'.
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*sigh*
Current managers who've got promoted to the premiership on a shoestring but haven't taken down the Behemoth that is Aston Villa after spending 20m on players?
there's fucking loads and i'm not going through every team that's come up to prove it. The point remains that there's plenty of names on that list you'd say "no-way" to, and why? Because in many cases they got relegated from the Premier League which is exactly how anyone neutral would view Lambert if we went down. But far far worse, because he didn't take down a struggling blackpool or bolton or blackburn, he took a big club down after spending a fortune. Thats the point - his record would be shitter than 90% of the possible candidates
There's loads of them.
So many, you can't name one of them. Let alone a range, in case we don't get choice number one.
That says it all.
This football club management shit is piss easy.
"We've sacked them manager! Yay!"
"Hang on, who are we going to get in to replace him?"
"Errr, there's loads"
"Like who?"
"Errrr...."
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That sounds a bit barrel-scrapey, to be honest.
Perhaps, but true. Nothing to lose by asking though.
And what if he says no, again?
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One last try.
Those who'd sack the manager if we went down.
Who would we replace him with? What kind of manager would we be looking at? Someone who'd come in from a standing start and get us promoted?
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That sounds a bit barrel-scrapey, to be honest.
Perhaps, but true. Nothing to lose by asking though.
The Premier would have been a massive step up from Molde.The Championship would be a more natural progression for him. He was clearly interested and I doubt he refused because of financial reasons as Lambert was backed
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One last try.
Those who'd sack the manager if we went down.
Who would we replace him with? What kind of manager would we be looking at? Someone who'd come in from a standing start and get us promoted?
ooh ooh I know this one *waves hand in air*
Roy Keane.
Do I get a gold star?
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Serious question - what is Lambert good at? I have heard some fairly specific criticisms but all the support seems a bit generalised. As a fence sitter who's losing faith, why should I believe?
He's certainly not good at substitutions.
Ok. Now back to your slagging off of Ron Vlaar....
Chocolate concrete is harder than Vlaar.
Maybe so but chocolate concrete is really, really hard. Hence 'concrete'.
But it mainly comprises of butter, cocoa powder and flour. Which is probably what Vlaar is made from as well.
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Serious question - what is Lambert good at? I have heard some fairly specific criticisms but all the support seems a bit generalised. As a fence sitter who's losing faith, why should I believe?
He's certainly not good at substitutions.
Ok. Now back to your slagging off of Ron Vlaar....
Chocolate concrete is harder than Vlaar.
Maybe so but chocolate concrete is really, really hard. Hence 'concrete'.
But it mainly comprises of butter, cocoa powder and flour. Which is probably what Vlaar is made from as well.
Cheers. Ratios/quantities?
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*sigh*
Current managers who've got promoted to the premiership on a shoestring but haven't taken down the Behemoth that is Aston Villa after spending 20m on players?
there's fucking loads and i'm not going through every team that's come up to prove it. The point remains that there's plenty of names on that list you'd say "no-way" to, and why? Because in many cases they got relegated from the Premier League which is exactly how anyone neutral would view Lambert if we went down. But far far worse, because he didn't take down a struggling blackpool or bolton or blackburn, he took a big club down after spending a fortune. Thats the point - his record would be shitter than 90% of the possible candidates
There's loads of them.
So many, you can't name one of them. Let alone a range, in case we don't get choice number one.
That says it all.
This football club management shit is piss easy.
"We've sacked them manager! Yay!"
"Hang on, who are we going to get in to replace him?"
"Errr, there's loads"
"Like who?"
"Errrr...."
you know the names paulie. The recent ones are on the other thread. Adkins, RDM for instance would both have a far far better record than Lambert if he took us down. You seem to saying there's no-one better than lambert when his record would be wretched.
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Serious question - what is Lambert good at? I have heard some fairly specific criticisms but all the support seems a bit generalised. As a fence sitter who's losing faith, why should I believe?
He's certainly not good at substitutions.
Ok. Now back to your slagging off of Ron Vlaar....
Chocolate concrete is harder than Vlaar.
Maybe so but chocolate concrete is really, really hard. Hence 'concrete'.
But it mainly comprises of butter, cocoa powder and flour. Which is probably what Vlaar is made from as well.
Cheers. Ratios/quantities?
Actually I have got a recipe somewhere. It was in the Mercury a few years ago.
-
Serious question - what is Lambert good at? I have heard some fairly specific criticisms but all the support seems a bit generalised. As a fence sitter who's losing faith, why should I believe?
He's certainly not good at substitutions.
Ok. Now back to your slagging off of Ron Vlaar....
Chocolate concrete is harder than Vlaar.
Maybe so but chocolate concrete is really, really hard. Hence 'concrete'.
But it mainly comprises of butter, cocoa powder and flour. Which is probably what Vlaar is made from as well.
Don't we go to some lengths to start a disagreement when everyone is fucked off about the same thing.
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And what if he says no, again?
We look elsewhere, like we did last time.
-
Serious question - what is Lambert good at? I have heard some fairly specific criticisms but all the support seems a bit generalised. As a fence sitter who's losing faith, why should I believe?
He's certainly not good at substitutions.
Ok. Now back to your slagging off of Ron Vlaar....
Chocolate concrete is harder than Vlaar.
Maybe so but chocolate concrete is really, really hard. Hence 'concrete'.
But it mainly comprises of butter, cocoa powder and flour. Which is probably what Vlaar is made from as well.
Cheers. Ratios/quantities?
Actually I have got a recipe somewhere. It was in the Mercury a few years ago.
I'm surprised at you buying that rag SH. That recipe is probably deadly to Villa fans.
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And what if he says no, again?
We look elsewhere, like we did last time.
Aye. I don't remember any nutters in the 80's going "oh there's no-one better than Billy McNeill, we should stick with him"
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My other half makes great flapjack and a lovely lemon drizzle cake. I'm just saying.
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Aye. I don't remember any nutters in the 80's going "oh there's no-one better than Billy McNeill, we should stick with him"
I remember plenty wanting Turner out and so we sacked him and ended up with McNeill.
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*sigh*
Current managers who've got promoted to the premiership on a shoestring but haven't taken down the Behemoth that is Aston Villa after spending 20m on players?
there's fucking loads and i'm not going through every team that's come up to prove it. The point remains that there's plenty of names on that list you'd say "no-way" to, and why? Because in many cases they got relegated from the Premier League which is exactly how anyone neutral would view Lambert if we went down. But far far worse, because he didn't take down a struggling blackpool or bolton or blackburn, he took a big club down after spending a fortune. Thats the point - his record would be shitter than 90% of the possible candidates
There's loads of them.
So many, you can't name one of them. Let alone a range, in case we don't get choice number one.
That says it all.
This football club management shit is piss easy.
"We've sacked them manager! Yay!"
"Hang on, who are we going to get in to replace him?"
"Errr, there's loads"
"Like who?"
"Errrr...."
you know the names paulie. The recent ones are on the other thread. Adkins, RDM for instance would both have a far far better record than Lambert if he took us down. You seem to saying there's no-one better than lambert when his record would be wretched.
If Lambert left now, and one of those joined and we still went down, then Lambert would have a better record.
So what?
Lambert's record is better than both of theirs.
He's bettered Adkins, as his team finished 12th in the league, and Adkins got the boot before getting that high. Plus he's more experienced.
Onion head got the stripeys up after losing a play off with MK Dons, and then was taking them down again (par for the course) before he got the chop, and jammily found himself at the right club, we're he was held in high esteem, at very much at the right time with a job to do the interviews that the manager would normally do.
No thanks dealer, I'll stick.
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*sigh*
Current managers who've got promoted to the premiership on a shoestring but haven't taken down the Behemoth that is Aston Villa after spending 20m on players?
there's fucking loads and i'm not going through every team that's come up to prove it. The point remains that there's plenty of names on that list you'd say "no-way" to, and why? Because in many cases they got relegated from the Premier League which is exactly how anyone neutral would view Lambert if we went down. But far far worse, because he didn't take down a struggling blackpool or bolton or blackburn, he took a big club down after spending a fortune. Thats the point - his record would be shitter than 90% of the possible candidates
There's loads of them.
So many, you can't name one of them. Let alone a range, in case we don't get choice number one.
That says it all.
This football club management shit is piss easy.
"We've sacked them manager! Yay!"
"Hang on, who are we going to get in to replace him?"
"Errr, there's loads"
"Like who?"
"Errrr...."
you know the names paulie. The recent ones are on the other thread. Adkins, RDM for instance would both have a far far better record than Lambert if he took us down. You seem to saying there's no-one better than lambert when his record would be wretched.
If Lambert left now, and one of those joined and we still went down, then Lambert would have a better record.
So what?
Lambert's record is better than both of theirs.
He's bettered Adkins, as his team finished 12th in the league, and Adkins got the boot before getting that high. Plus he's more experienced.
Onion head got the stripeys up after losing a play off with MK Dons, and then was taking them down again (par for the course) before he got the chop, and jammily found himself at the right club, we're he was held in high esteem, at very much at the right time with a job to do the interviews that the manager would normally do.
No thanks dealer, I'll stick.
We were discussing if Lambert should stay if he took us down so your point is er pointless
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STOP THE BLOODY QUOTING NONSENSE
DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING
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I'm surprised at you buying that rag SH. That recipe is probably deadly to Villa fans.
I don't buy it anymore. Not for a good few years now.
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Can we stop the quotathons please.
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And what if he says no, again?
We look elsewhere, like we did last time.
Aye. I don't remember any nutters in the 80's going "oh there's no-one better than Billy McNeill, we should stick with him"
Apparently, well according to Paulie, if the fans on here can't think of a name he should stay on and continue to drag Villa into the lower leagues.
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If there's Innies who think we're getting relegated anyway but want to keep him for the championship on the basis he'll get us back up with a record as horrific as Billy McNeills, then that's probably the most defeatist notion i've ever seen on here.
Sod that. GET HIM OOOT!
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I'm sure no one will lose sleep over this shocking revelation, but the posts I'm least likely to read are those mega-quotathon ones. I quote other posts at times, most of us do, but as soon as posts seem like some kind of long vertical pattern, my interest in reading them wanes.
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I'm sure
Exactly, get Alex McLeish back.
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I'm sure no one will lose sleep over this shocking revelation, but the posts I'm least likely to read are those mega-quotathon ones. I quote other posts at times, most of us do, but as soon as posts seem like some kind of long vertical pattern, my interest in reading them wanes.
Agreed
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I'm sure no one will lose sleep over this shocking revelation, but the posts I'm least likely to read are those mega-quotathon ones. I quote other posts at times, most of us do, but as soon as posts seem like some kind of long vertical pattern, my interest in reading them wanes.
Agreed
Seconded.
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I'm sure no one will lose sleep over this shocking revelation, but the posts I'm least likely to read are those mega-quotathon ones. I quote other posts at times, most of us do, but as soon as posts seem like some kind of long vertical pattern, my interest in reading them wanes.
Agreed
Seconded.
Me too.
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Absolutely no chance is Guzan a Lambert signing.
Yes I agree with you and now can I ask you to join me in convincing some ignorant people out there who are convinced that the sun will rise from the east tomorrow morning?
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I'm sure no one will lose sleep over this shocking revelation, but the posts I'm least likely to read are those mega-quotathon ones. I quote other posts at times, most of us do, but as soon as posts seem like some kind of long vertical pattern, my interest in reading them wanes.
Agreed
Seconded.
Me too.
You are so right but I have wasted my ink as you are not going to read this!
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I'm sure no one will lose sleep over this shocking revelation, but the posts I'm least likely to read are those mega-quotathon ones. I quote other posts at times, most of us do, but as soon as posts seem like some kind of long vertical pattern, my interest in reading them wanes.
Agreed
You are so right but I have wasted my ink as you are not going to read this!
Seconded.
Me too.
I concur.
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We were discussing if Lambert should stay if he took us down so your point is er pointless
To avoid quote-athon, the two names you mentioned would have inferior records to Lambert if he got the boot now, which is what happened to them in their respective jobs.
They would also be the kind of names in the frame to take over should we find ourselves in the Championship.
Sacking another manager for the sake of appointing at best, like for like, seems pointless and costly as we haven't got a pot to piss in, and shit players.
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We were discussing if Lambert should stay if he took us down so your point is er pointless
To avoid quote-athon, the two names you mentioned would have inferior records to Lambert if he got the boot now, which is what happened to them in their respective jobs.
They would also be the kind of names in the frame to take over should we find ourselves in the Championship.
Sacking another manager for the sake of appointing at best, like for like, seems pointless and costly as we haven't got a pot to piss in, and shit players.
It wouldn't be like for like. In the case of RDM and Adkins it would be bringing in managers to replace someone who'd have been our worse manager in a couple of generations. His record would stink to high heaven. I say again, his record would be on a par or worse than Billy McNeill - did you want to keep him?
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It's not like Lambert's football was inspiring with Norwich, it was a similar brand of British efficiency to that employed by O'Neill, and this season the football has mostly been dire. I'd get a caretaker in until the end of the season, then try and get a more progressive sort like Poyet in.
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I'm sure no one will lose sleep over this shocking revelation, but the posts I'm least likely to read are those mega-quotathon ones. I quote other posts at times, most of us do, but as soon as posts seem like some kind of long vertical pattern, my interest in reading them wanes.
Agreed
You are so right but I have wasted my ink as you are not going to read this!
Seconded.
Me too.
I concur.
Can't believe I messed up quoting properly.
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It's not like Lambert's football was inspiring with Norwich, it was a similar brand of British efficiency to that employed by O'Neill, and this season the football has mostly been dire. I'd get a caretaker in until the end of the season, then try and get a more progressive sort like Poyet in.
Spot on. I'd even give the job to John Gregory for few months. Might give us a fighting chance of staying up, then sort the mess out in the summer.
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I'm sure no one will lose sleep over this shocking revelation, but the posts I'm least likely to read are those mega-quotathon ones. I quote other posts at times, most of us do, but as soon as posts seem like some kind of long vertical pattern, my interest in reading them wanes.
Agreed
You are so right but I have wasted my ink as you are not going to read this!
Seconded.
Me too.
I concur.
Can't believe I messed up quoting properly.
You do all realise Liz isn't going to read this now don't you?
-
I'm sure no one will lose sleep over this shocking revelation, but the posts I'm least likely to read are those mega-quotathon ones. I quote other posts at times, most of us do, but as soon as posts seem like some kind of long vertical pattern, my interest in reading them wanes.
Agreed
You are so right but I have wasted my ink as you are not going to read this!
Seconded.
Me too.
I concur.
Can't believe I messed up quoting properly.
You do all realise Liz isn't going to read this now don't you?
Yes I know and it's such a shame as I have something very valid to say on this topic.
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I'm sure no one will lose sleep over this shocking revelation, but the posts I'm least likely to read are those mega-quotathon ones. I quote other posts at times, most of us do, but as soon as posts seem like some kind of long vertical pattern, my interest in reading them wanes.
Agreed
You are so right but I have wasted my ink as you are not going to read this!
Seconded.
Me too.
I concur.
Can't believe I messed up quoting properly.
You do all realise Liz isn't going to read this now don't you?
Yes I know and it's such a shame as I have something very valid to say on this topic.
Don't say anything rude about Liz just because she's not looking!
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It's not like Lambert's football was inspiring with Norwich, it was a similar brand of British efficiency to that employed by O'Neill, and this season the football has mostly been dire. I'd get a caretaker in until the end of the season, then try and get a more progressive sort like Poyet in.
Spot on. I'd even give the job to John Gregory for few months. Might give us a fighting chance of staying up, then sort the mess out in the summer.
I can't stand Gregory but you're right. Someone who can inspire confidence in the players, or if not scare the shit out of them is what we need. At the moment we've got a charisma bypass in the hotseat blindly mumbling his way through press conferences repeating the same 3 sentances after each set-back.
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I'm sure no one will lose sleep over this shocking revelation, but the posts I'm least likely to read are those mega-quotathon ones. I quote other posts at times, most of us do, but as soon as posts seem like some kind of long vertical pattern, my interest in reading them wanes.
Agreed
You are so right but I have wasted my ink as you are not going to read this!
Seconded.
Me too.
I concur.
Can't believe I messed up quoting properly.
You do all realise Liz isn't going to read this now don't you?
Yes I know and it's such a shame as I have something very valid to say on this topic.
Don't say anything rude about Liz just because she's not looking!
However I am losing sleep over her original comment.
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I just don't get his tatics ...
Bradford concede goal ok lets lump on every forward and goal hang
Milwall lost 2 strikers who had 18 goals so lets play 5 at back leaving us with a man down in midfield and evidently we just passed sideways or Given lumped it forward.
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In fairness to Lizz, she makes a valid point.
In the absence of an app like tapatalk, a lot of "smart" phones make it quite difficult to reply without quoting.
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I'm 100% with Lizz, any valid points are lost in any of the frequenyly tedious quotathons. Whenever Brian does one of his superb posts you can pretty much guarantee it will be quoted in it's entirety at least 57 times with the poster simply posting 'This' or 'I agree'. Stop it!
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I'm 100% with Lizz, any valid points are lost in any of the frequenyly tedious quotathons. Whenever Brian does one of his superb posts you can pretty much guarantee it will be quoted in it's entirety at least 57 times with the poster simply posting 'This' or 'I agree'. Stop it!
I agree.
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I think it's all boiled down to tomorrow night. Lose at home to Newcastle and he's gone but a win will keep him safe for a wee while longer.
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I think it's all boiled down to tomorrow night. Lose at home to Newcastle and he's gone but a win will keep him safe for a wee while longer.
I wish ! I think whatever happens tomorrow night the chance of him going is zero.
Should have been gone a fortnight ago- i honestly do not see what they see in him.
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Don't start Kelly.
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Jesus wept, I left this one to go to bed, and when I wake up the man to sack-ettes have moved onto is John Gregory.
I am retiring from this thread.
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It's not like Lambert's football was inspiring with Norwich, it was a similar brand of British efficiency to that employed by O'Neill, and this season the football has mostly been dire. I'd get a caretaker in until the end of the season, then try and get a more progressive sort like Poyet in.
Spot on. I'd even give the job to John Gregory for few months. Might give us a fighting chance of staying up, then sort the mess out in the summer.
I can't stand Gregory but you're right. Someone who can inspire confidence in the players, or if not scare the shit out of them is what we need. At the moment we've got a charisma bypass in the hotseat blindly mumbling his way through press conferences repeating the same 3 sentances after each set-back.
Charisma bypass - sorry that is a rubbish arguement.
Ron Saunders didn't have the most charisma, neither did Brian Little to be fair. Tommy Doherty had loads and he was shit at Villa.
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I think it's all boiled down to tomorrow night. Lose at home to Newcastle and he's gone but a win will keep him safe for a wee while longer.
I think if we lose heavily then it might be difficult for him but i'd take the win and hope we can push on from there.
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The only fair and just way to deal with Lambert is to put him before Judge Melchett with George representing him.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
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Press conf coming up at the training ground.
Can't wait for the latest pearls of wisdom.
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It's not like Lambert's football was inspiring with Norwich, it was a similar brand of British efficiency to that employed by O'Neill, and this season the football has mostly been dire. I'd get a caretaker in until the end of the season, then try and get a more progressive sort like Poyet in.
I'd like to see Poyet at VP, but can't see Lerner/Faulkner taking on a manager from a lower league and no Premiership experience, they're too conservative.
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Press conf coming up at the training ground.
Can't wait for the latest pearls of wisdom.
Lets see if kendrick gets a reply.
Lamberts a bit late turning up because hes having a cuppa apparently according to nursey.
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The only fair and just way to deal with Lambert is to put him before Judge Melchett with George representing him.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
Faulkner has to be Baldrick.
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He will come good. Mark my words. He will be the best manager the club has seen since GH.
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I had to do a lot of catching up on this thread since Saturday night. A few things confuse me. Why the clamour for Gregory to return but not Brian Little? I would class Guzan as a Lambert signing but does it matter? Since when has OGS become the new Brian Clough and into the bargain a Championship side become more of an attractive proposition than a Premier League side as far as he's concerned? My opinion is that the players aren't as bad as they are looking at the moment. A total lack of confidence is the problem. How did a side that nearly went down in '89 and looked like going down early in the next season finish second? Was it totally down to SGT playing three central defenders and sticking 'stix' on the wing? I think it was down to a team going on a run and gaining a huge amount of belief and confidence. What we do need is a couple of experienced players to help us till the end of the season at least. I seem to remember when Ferguson's policy of replacing BFR's old guard with youngsters started going wrong he brought in Mal Donaghy just for some short term experience. Just as when Jim Leighton's form and confidence was going down the pan he brought in the Luton reserve keeper who was experienced/gobby/'bit of a character'. We need a couple like that and it's Lambert's job to get them. Reo-Coker would be a start.
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I had to do a lot of catching up on this thread since Saturday night. A few things confuse me. Why the clamour for Gregory to return but not Brian Little? I would class Guzan as a Lambert signing but does it matter? Since when has OGS become the new Brian Clough and into the bargain a Championship side become more of an attractive proposition than a Premier League side as far as he's concerned? My opinion is that the players aren't as bad as they are looking at the moment. A total lack of confidence is the problem. How did a side that nearly went down in '89 and looked like going down early in the next season finish second? Was it totally down to SGT playing three central defenders and sticking 'stix' on the wing? I think it was down to a team going on a run and gaining a huge amount of belief and confidence. What we do need is a couple of experienced players to help us till the end of the season at least. I seem to remember when Ferguson's policy of replacing BFR's old guard with youngsters started going wrong he brought in Mal Donaghy just for some short term experience. Just as when Jim Leighton's form and confidence was going down the pan he brought in the Luton reserve keeper who was experienced/gobby/'bit of a character'. We need a couple like that and it's Lambert's job to get them. Reo-Coker would be a start.
So little needs doing but so little is being done.
It's the shoulder shrugging acceptance and perceived abdication of responsibility that has got everyone so heated.
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I had to do a lot of catching up on this thread since Saturday night. A few things confuse me. Why the clamour for Gregory to return but not Brian Little? I would class Guzan as a Lambert signing but does it matter? Since when has OGS become the new Brian Clough and into the bargain a Championship side become more of an attractive proposition than a Premier League side as far as he's concerned? My opinion is that the players aren't as bad as they are looking at the moment. A total lack of confidence is the problem. How did a side that nearly went down in '89 and looked like going down early in the next season finish second? Was it totally down to SGT playing three central defenders and sticking 'stix' on the wing? I think it was down to a team going on a run and gaining a huge amount of belief and confidence. What we do need is a couple of experienced players to help us till the end of the season at least. I seem to remember when Ferguson's policy of replacing BFR's old guard with youngsters started going wrong he brought in Mal Donaghy just for some short term experience. Just as when Jim Leighton's form and confidence was going down the pan he brought in the Luton reserve keeper who was experienced/gobby/'bit of a character'. We need a couple like that and it's Lambert's job to get them. Reo-Coker would be a start.
So little needs doing but so little is being done.
It's the shoulder shrugging acceptance and perceived abdication of responsibility that has got everyone so heated.
I agree but I'm reserving final judgement until the window shuts.
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I had to do a lot of catching up on this thread since Saturday night. A few things confuse me. Why the clamour for Gregory to return but not Brian Little? I would class Guzan as a Lambert signing but does it matter? Since when has OGS become the new Brian Clough and into the bargain a Championship side become more of an attractive proposition than a Premier League side as far as he's concerned? My opinion is that the players aren't as bad as they are looking at the moment. A total lack of confidence is the problem. How did a side that nearly went down in '89 and looked like going down early in the next season finish second? Was it totally down to SGT playing three central defenders and sticking 'stix' on the wing? I think it was down to a team going on a run and gaining a huge amount of belief and confidence. What we do need is a couple of experienced players to help us till the end of the season at least. I seem to remember when Ferguson's policy of replacing BFR's old guard with youngsters started going wrong he brought in Mal Donaghy just for some short term experience. Just as when Jim Leighton's form and confidence was going down the pan he brought in the Luton reserve keeper who was experienced/gobby/'bit of a character'. We need a couple like that and it's Lambert's job to get them. Reo-Coker would be a start.
So little needs doing but so little is being done.
It's the shoulder shrugging acceptance and perceived abdication of responsibility that has got everyone so heated.
This is what infuriates me so much. For all that we're crap, and for all the moans that this is the worst team to ever play football and Barnstonworth would beat us, there's not really much needs doing to improve them. One solid defender making one decent challenge in every game since the start of the month would have seen us five points better off, in one cup final and a non-league team away from the quarters of another.
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I had to do a lot of catching up on this thread since Saturday night. A few things confuse me. Why the clamour for Gregory to return but not Brian Little? I would class Guzan as a Lambert signing but does it matter? Since when has OGS become the new Brian Clough and into the bargain a Championship side become more of an attractive proposition than a Premier League side as far as he's concerned? My opinion is that the players aren't as bad as they are looking at the moment. A total lack of confidence is the problem. How did a side that nearly went down in '89 and looked like going down early in the next season finish second? Was it totally down to SGT playing three central defenders and sticking 'stix' on the wing? I think it was down to a team going on a run and gaining a huge amount of belief and confidence. What we do need is a couple of experienced players to help us till the end of the season at least. I seem to remember when Ferguson's policy of replacing BFR's old guard with youngsters started going wrong he brought in Mal Donaghy just for some short term experience. Just as when Jim Leighton's form and confidence was going down the pan he brought in the Luton reserve keeper who was experienced/gobby/'bit of a character'. We need a couple like that and it's Lambert's job to get them. Reo-Coker would be a start.
So little needs doing but so little is being done.
It's the shoulder shrugging acceptance and perceived abdication of responsibility that has got everyone so heated.
This is what infuriates me so much. For all that we're crap, and for all the moans that this is the worst team to ever play football and Barnstonworth would beat us, there's not really much needs doing to improve them. One solid defender making one decent challenge in every game since the start of the month would have seen us five points better off, in one cup final and a non-league team away from the quarters of another.
Entirely agree, Dave, and Nev.
If the team needed really major surgery, it'd be more understandable, but it doesn't. A decent judge of players could probably go and get in the two players we need for considerably less than 10m.
We don't need any more untried youngsters, but we also don't necessarily need hugely paid internationals. It is the fact that the people running the club seemingly either can't spot this, or just don't care enough, that sticks in the craw.
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I had to do a lot of catching up on this thread since Saturday night. A few things confuse me. Why the clamour for Gregory to return but not Brian Little? I would class Guzan as a Lambert signing but does it matter? Since when has OGS become the new Brian Clough and into the bargain a Championship side become more of an attractive proposition than a Premier League side as far as he's concerned? My opinion is that the players aren't as bad as they are looking at the moment. A total lack of confidence is the problem. How did a side that nearly went down in '89 and looked like going down early in the next season finish second? Was it totally down to SGT playing three central defenders and sticking 'stix' on the wing? I think it was down to a team going on a run and gaining a huge amount of belief and confidence. What we do need is a couple of experienced players to help us till the end of the season at least. I seem to remember when Ferguson's policy of replacing BFR's old guard with youngsters started going wrong he brought in Mal Donaghy just for some short term experience. Just as when Jim Leighton's form and confidence was going down the pan he brought in the Luton reserve keeper who was experienced/gobby/'bit of a character'. We need a couple like that and it's Lambert's job to get them. Reo-Coker would be a start.
So little needs doing but so little is being done.
It's the shoulder shrugging acceptance and perceived abdication of responsibility that has got everyone so heated.
This is what infuriates me so much. For all that we're crap, and for all the moans that this is the worst team to ever play football and Barnstonworth would beat us, there's not really much needs doing to improve them. One solid defender making one decent challenge in every game since the start of the month would have seen us five points better off, in one cup final and a non-league team away from the quarters of another.
Entirely agree, Dave, and Nev.
If the team needed really major surgery, it'd be more understandable, but it doesn't. A decent judge of players could probably go and get in the two players we need for considerably less than 10m.
We don't need any more untried youngsters, but we also don't necessarily need hugely paid internationals. It is the fact that the people running the club seemingly either can't spot this, or just don't care enough, that sticks in the craw.
I can only think it's a money issue. Which flies in the face of what Randy did two years ago and the return of the extra PL cash next season. I'm yet to get angry about it, but I am mightily confused!
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Well Laughing Boy answered Kendrick's questions at the presser. Don't what he said yet though.....
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I had to do a lot of catching up on this thread since Saturday night. A few things confuse me. Why the clamour for Gregory to return but not Brian Little? I would class Guzan as a Lambert signing but does it matter? Since when has OGS become the new Brian Clough and into the bargain a Championship side become more of an attractive proposition than a Premier League side as far as he's concerned? My opinion is that the players aren't as bad as they are looking at the moment. A total lack of confidence is the problem. How did a side that nearly went down in '89 and looked like going down early in the next season finish second? Was it totally down to SGT playing three central defenders and sticking 'stix' on the wing? I think it was down to a team going on a run and gaining a huge amount of belief and confidence. What we do need is a couple of experienced players to help us till the end of the season at least. I seem to remember when Ferguson's policy of replacing BFR's old guard with youngsters started going wrong he brought in Mal Donaghy just for some short term experience. Just as when Jim Leighton's form and confidence was going down the pan he brought in the Luton reserve keeper who was experienced/gobby/'bit of a character'. We need a couple like that and it's Lambert's job to get them. Reo-Coker would be a start.
So little needs doing but so little is being done.
It's the shoulder shrugging acceptance and perceived abdication of responsibility that has got everyone so heated.
This is what infuriates me so much. For all that we're crap, and for all the moans that this is the worst team to ever play football and Barnstonworth would beat us, there's not really much needs doing to improve them. One solid defender making one decent challenge in every game since the start of the month would have seen us five points better off, in one cup final and a non-league team away from the quarters of another.
Which is what makes it so inexcusable. I would say a tall, experienced defender and a strong, experienced central midfielder would have made a difference in so many games this season. We could be three or four points better off by now and as we learned last year, every single point is crucial when a strugglign team gets to May.
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I guess all we can do now is wait to see what happens on Thursday. This can be the only defendable reason that the CEO has not made a statement to the fans.
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I guess all we can do now is wait to see what happens on Thursday. This can be the only defendable reason that the CEO has not made a statement to the fans.
I'd like the CEO to say 'I'm off' Keep it short and sweet
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If we go down then he should be the first to leave he has been overseeing some 3 years of decline.
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Well Laughing Boy answered Kendrick's questions at the presser. Don't what he said yet though.....
Here it is
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Could we all stop saying "presser" like we're all seasoned newspaper hacks of 40 years. Thank you.
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I am still with keeping him after initially voting out but am very much on the fence with the inaction of the owner keeping me on Lambert's side. Just. I am hoping that his poor tactics, particularly mid-game changes are down to his inexperience and getting flustered in front of a baying crowd. If he can learn from that it will help unless his stubborness convinces him to continue in this manner.
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Thinking about it, I wonder if one of the reasons that Lambert is not under threat from Lerner, is because Lerner just cannot be arsed to have the hassle of looking for another manager.
We like to think that the Villa job is a privileged one, but if there is genuinely no money available, and if other managers have turned down the job because of this (even laughingly, or so we are told), then is Lambert safe because he is the only bugger prepared to work under those conditions and Lerner knows it ?
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I imagine a phone call from McLeish to Lambert would be interesting listening.
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Well Laughing Boy answered Kendrick's questions at the presser. Don't what he said yet though.....
Could we all stop saying "presser" like we're all seasoned newspaper hacks of 40 years. Thank you.
I only writ that 'cos I don't know how to spell confurance.
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I imagine a phone call from McLeish to Lambert would be interesting listening.
Having read lamberts autobiography there is no love lost between them !
Mcleish treated him like a dog .
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I had to do a lot of catching up on this thread since Saturday night. A few things confuse me. Why the clamour for Gregory to return but not Brian Little? I would class Guzan as a Lambert signing but does it matter? Since when has OGS become the new Brian Clough and into the bargain a Championship side become more of an attractive proposition than a Premier League side as far as he's concerned? My opinion is that the players aren't as bad as they are looking at the moment. A total lack of confidence is the problem. How did a side that nearly went down in '89 and looked like going down early in the next season finish second? Was it totally down to SGT playing three central defenders and sticking 'stix' on the wing? I think it was down to a team going on a run and gaining a huge amount of belief and confidence. What we do need is a couple of experienced players to help us till the end of the season at least. I seem to remember when Ferguson's policy of replacing BFR's old guard with youngsters started going wrong he brought in Mal Donaghy just for some short term experience. Just as when Jim Leighton's form and confidence was going down the pan he brought in the Luton reserve keeper who was experienced/gobby/'bit of a character'. We need a couple like that and it's Lambert's job to get them. Reo-Coker would be a start.
So little needs doing but so little is being done.
It's the shoulder shrugging acceptance and perceived abdication of responsibility that has got everyone so heated.
This is what infuriates me so much. For all that we're crap, and for all the moans that this is the worst team to ever play football and Barnstonworth would beat us, there's not really much needs doing to improve them. One solid defender making one decent challenge in every game since the start of the month would have seen us five points better off, in one cup final and a non-league team away from the quarters of another.
Entirely agree, Dave, and Nev.
If the team needed really major surgery, it'd be more understandable, but it doesn't. A decent judge of players could probably go and get in the two players we need for considerably less than 10m.
We don't need any more untried youngsters, but we also don't necessarily need hugely paid internationals. It is the fact that the people running the club seemingly either can't spot this, or just don't care enough, that sticks in the craw.
I can only think it's a money issue. Which flies in the face of what Randy did two years ago and the return of the extra PL cash next season. I'm yet to get angry about it, but I am mightily confused!
In which case, why not go for a couple of loans for the short term and revisit the long term plan in the summer? Surely the money available to do that?
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Thinking about it, I wonder if one of the reasons that Lambert is not under threat from Lerner, is because Lerner just cannot be arsed to have the hassle of looking for another manager.
We like to think that the Villa job is a privileged one, but if there is genuinely no money available, and if other managers have turned down the job because of this (even laughingly, or so we are told), then is Lambert safe because he is the only bugger prepared to work under those conditions and Lerner knows it ?
All the fans are doing is speculating, as we don't know what's been said in the corridors of power at B6, and the media just make up stories if they've nothing definite from the club.
Lerner made some money available in the summer and Lambert set his stall out with a young set of players and no serious experience squad members to guide and support them. This I believe was his big mistake.
My concern now, is that it seems if Lambert can't motivate his players against lower league opposition in a cup competition, so why should we expect him to be any better if we go down? >:(
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I'm bored of people saying 'he's shit, they're shit, we're down already' without being willing to accept there are any other factors and without conceding there are good points.
It's as if the world has ended.
At the moment, what our players need is support and guidance, you could see Bennett suffer against Bradford when the moans and groans started from the fans. He, amongst others need supporting rather than dismissing as being shit.
Some fans want Lambert out now and are (subconsciously or not) just coming out with that mantra regardless.
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Thinking about it, I wonder if one of the reasons that Lambert is not under threat from Lerner, is because Lerner just cannot be arsed to have the hassle of looking for another manager.
We like to think that the Villa job is a privileged one, but if there is genuinely no money available, and if other managers have turned down the job because of this (even laughingly, or so we are told), then is Lambert safe because he is the only bugger prepared to work under those conditions and Lerner knows it ?
I don't buy this 'we couldn't sell the club because of lack of funds' line - Lambert had over £20m which is a decent amount of money to virtually any manager in the game.
There may be a case that they didn't accept the low wage budget but even then I think the total budget is more than reasonable, it's just that too much of it is eaten up by overpaid dross. The latter bit ties into how I read the 'strip it right back' comment from lambert.
Back on topic, there would be plenty of managers willing to accept those restrictions in the knowledge that IF they can sell Ireland, Hutton, Bent and Given they'd have the best part of 200k pw wages and 10-15m available straight away to spend on the squad, and probably a bit on top in terms of transfer fees. Then in the summer there's another 100k pw freed up by Dunne and Warnock leaving. None of which massively weakens the squad from where it is currently because the only one of them who has provided anything this season is Bent, but Weimann and Benteke offer enough goals for it to be worth cashing in on him.
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Right if Lerner is backing Lambert then we may as well make sure we get behind him. However he needs to get active in the transfer marker, Lerner has made it fairly clear funds are there.
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I imagine a phone call from McLeish to Lambert would be interesting listening.
I don't know. Mcleish would probably hold back, and argue for the draw.
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I imagine a phone call from McLeish to Lambert would be interesting listening.
I wouldn't want to have to transcribe it, wouldn't understand a word.
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Could we all stop saying "presser" like we're all seasoned newspaper hacks of 40 years. Thank you.
Nothing wrong with that. Words make their way into common vocabulary after starting out and resting in cliques for may years.
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I'm bored of people saying 'he's shit, they're shit, we're down already' without being willing to accept there are any other factors and without conceding there are good points.
It's as if the world has ended.
At the moment, what our players need is support and guidance, you could see Bennett suffer against Bradford when the moans and groans started from the fans. He, amongst others need supporting rather than dismissing as being shit.
Some fans want Lambert out now and are (subconsciously or not) just coming out with that mantra regardless.
I like the way you use 'regardless' as if there aren't a multitude of reasons for wanting rid of our worst and most incompetent manager in living memory.
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I had to do a lot of catching up on this thread since Saturday night. A few things confuse me. Why the clamour for Gregory to return but not Brian Little? I would class Guzan as a Lambert signing but does it matter? Since when has OGS become the new Brian Clough and into the bargain a Championship side become more of an attractive proposition than a Premier League side as far as he's concerned? My opinion is that the players aren't as bad as they are looking at the moment. A total lack of confidence is the problem. How did a side that nearly went down in '89 and looked like going down early in the next season finish second? Was it totally down to SGT playing three central defenders and sticking 'stix' on the wing? I think it was down to a team going on a run and gaining a huge amount of belief and confidence. What we do need is a couple of experienced players to help us till the end of the season at least. I seem to remember when Ferguson's policy of replacing BFR's old guard with youngsters started going wrong he brought in Mal Donaghy just for some short term experience. Just as when Jim Leighton's form and confidence was going down the pan he brought in the Luton reserve keeper who was experienced/gobby/'bit of a character'. We need a couple like that and it's Lambert's job to get them. Reo-Coker would be a start.
So little needs doing but so little is being done.
It's the shoulder shrugging acceptance and perceived abdication of responsibility that has got everyone so heated.
This is what infuriates me so much. For all that we're crap, and for all the moans that this is the worst team to ever play football and Barnstonworth would beat us, there's not really much needs doing to improve them. One solid defender making one decent challenge in every game since the start of the month would have seen us five points better off, in one cup final and a non-league team away from the quarters of another.
Entirely agree, Dave, and Nev.
If the team needed really major surgery, it'd be more understandable, but it doesn't. A decent judge of players could probably go and get in the two players we need for considerably less than 10m.
We don't need any more untried youngsters, but we also don't necessarily need hugely paid internationals. It is the fact that the people running the club seemingly either can't spot this, or just don't care enough, that sticks in the craw.
You really think the team needs 2-3 players? Half the team's heads have gone since the 8-0.
I actually think we'll settle down defensively with Dunne-Vlaar as our combo which seems likely soon but one of them could easily get injured soon so we'd be back to square one.
Left back is the weakest position in our team imo, as said before would get Riise in on 18 month deal.
Two new central midfielders required as none of the combinations which usually contain Bannan/Delph/Holman/Ireland/Kea are good enough.
And in case you missed it but we're one of the lowest scorers in the league. I think our forwards are good enough so clearly there is a lack of creativity with N'zogbia and Ireland regularly failing to produce the goods.
That's 5 players there just to get back to mid table mediocrity.
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You really think the team needs 2-3 players? Half the team's heads have gone since the 8-0.
I think we need 2 or 3 players in the short term to improve the squad sufficiently to at least stay up.
That has got to be our first aim. Stay in the league.
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I'm bored of people saying 'he's shit, they're shit, we're down already' without being willing to accept there are any other factors and without conceding there are good points.
It's as if the world has ended.
At the moment, what our players need is support and guidance, you could see Bennett suffer against Bradford when the moans and groans started from the fans. He, amongst others need supporting rather than dismissing as being shit.
Some fans want Lambert out now and are (subconsciously or not) just coming out with that mantra regardless.
I like the way you use 'regardless' as if there aren't a multitude of reasons for wanting rid of our worst and most incompetent manager in living memory.
Incompetent is just your interpretation and takes no account of the circumstances he has had to deal with since his arrival. His record prior to joining us suggests he's a decent manager, so it's perfectly reasonable for a fair minded person to feel that he deserves to be given time.
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You really think the team needs 2-3 players? Half the team's heads have gone since the 8-0.
I think we need 2 or 3 players in the short term to improve the squad sufficiently to at least stay up.
That has got to be our first aim. Stay in the league.
So you think we have enough creativity in the team so we won't draw crucial games 1-1 or 0-0?
Another one I forgot to mention was Lowton. Excellent imo until the Chelsea game and he's looked out of it since. I would love the luxury of taking him out of the side from a breather but the only alternative is Lichaj ffs. You comfortable with Lowton having to play for the rest of the season Paulie?
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We need a bloody hypnotist to make them forget the last few weeks.
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I'm bored of people saying 'he's shit, they're shit, we're down already' without being willing to accept there are any other factors and without conceding there are good points.
It's as if the world has ended.
At the moment, what our players need is support and guidance, you could see Bennett suffer against Bradford when the moans and groans started from the fans. He, amongst others need supporting rather than dismissing as being shit.
Some fans want Lambert out now and are (subconsciously or not) just coming out with that mantra regardless.
I like the way you use 'regardless' as if there aren't a multitude of reasons for wanting rid of our worst and most incompetent manager in living memory.
Incompetent is just your interpretation and takes no account of the circumstances he has had to deal with since his arrival. His record prior to joining us suggests he's a decent manager, so it's perfectly reasonable for a fair minded person to feel that he deserves to be given time.
It's my interpretation backed up by hard stats of the appalling job he's done since he's been here, after spending £20m+ on a squad that McLeish kept up. Only one of the players he has bought has looked ready for the Premier League, and the more time he's given, the worse the mess he's getting us in to. His record prior to joining us will be utterly irrelevant if he relegates us, as looks increasingly likely. There are dozens of managers who have one or two good years before then disappearing down the proverbial shitter. Lambert will be the next. If we'd kept McLeish this season, and Lambert was having the results he's had this season, but at Norwich, who would be calling for him to be the new manager? Absolutely nobody at all. He's a laughing stock amongst fans of other teams, this will be the last big job he has, before slipping back into Phil Brown/Owen Coyle territory.
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You really think the team needs 2-3 players? Half the team's heads have gone since the 8-0.
I think we need 2 or 3 players in the short term to improve the squad sufficiently to at least stay up.
That has got to be our first aim. Stay in the league.
So you think we have enough creativity in the team so we won't draw crucial games 1-1 or 0-0?
Another one I forgot to mention was Lowton. Excellent imo until the Chelsea game and he's looked out of it since. I would love the luxury of taking him out of the side from a breather but the only alternative is Lichaj ffs. You comfortable with Lowton having to play for the rest of the season Paulie?
No club would buy the 6+ players you're advocating, 1 central midfielder is enough, a central defender depends a lot on when Dunne will be back, so a player that could cover one of the full back spots and centre back would be fine (preferably left sided as Lowton fills that role on the right) and then a creative player would be good but it depends how much you trust Nzogbia's recent improvement to continue. So 2-3 sounds reasonable.
Expecting or even imagining any more is silly tbh.
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You really think the team needs 2-3 players? Half the team's heads have gone since the 8-0.
I think we need 2 or 3 players in the short term to improve the squad sufficiently to at least stay up.
That has got to be our first aim. Stay in the league.
So you think we have enough creativity in the team so we won't draw crucial games 1-1 or 0-0?
Another one I forgot to mention was Lowton. Excellent imo until the Chelsea game and he's looked out of it since. I would love the luxury of taking him out of the side from a breather but the only alternative is Lichaj ffs. You comfortable with Lowton having to play for the rest of the season Paulie?
I am comfortable with Lowton, yes.
We are not going to go out and buy 5 players now, it just isn't going to happen, so it isn't even worth discussing.
The problem we have currently is that the young players' confidence has taken a monumental pounding, and we're seeing the results. Not just Lowton, pretty much all of them.
I think there is talent and quality there that will be unlocked to a sufficient level by the addition of 2-3 players. Certainly enough to keep us up. In fact, I'd rather we only brought in 2 or 3 now and kept our powder dry till the summer for the rest.
Let's just do what we need to do (and can do) right now to improve the squad enough to stay up, and then look at it again in the summer.
I certainly wouldn't advocate spaffing far more money right now in the expensive and restrictive January market to try to make the difference between, say, 15th and 10th. It's not worth it. I'd rather stay up and then improve the squad long term in the summer, when it will be much easier, and much cheaper.
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How many did we sign in the 10-11 transfer window, 5 or 6? I was certainly a lot more confident we'd stay up when Bent turned up. Who else came in that window, Pires, Bradley, Walker, Makoun?
I believe the 8 nil has totally changed the dynamics of this. Suddenly half our team looks shot at winning matches at this level.
O.k two players and most would go for a centre half and strong central midfielder. I still believe it would be touch and go whether we'd stay up as we'd certainly concede less but we'd just be drawing games 0-0 or 1-1 like we were even in our good run in November/December.
If you look at our games, oppositon teams are actively targeting Bennett/Stevens at left back. Southampton and Bradford did it with success and I'm sure Pardew will play Obertan tommorrow on the right to have a go down that side. For me this window a left back has become a must, probably over a cb.
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Yes, but the 10-11 January window saw us pay (up to) £24m for one player, our record signing.
There's no point comparing the situation now to that because it has all changed. The money isn't there, we are working to an entirely different financial reality. It just isn't an option again.
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How many did we sign in the 10-11 transfer window, 5 or 6? I was certainly a lot more confident we'd stay up when Bent turned up. Who else came in that window, Pires, Bradley, Walker, Makoun?
I believe the 8 nil has totally changed the dynamics of this. Suddenly half our team looks shot at winning matches at this level.
O.k two players and most would go for a centre half and strong central midfielder. I still believe it would be touch and go whether we'd stay up as we'd certainly concede less but we'd just be drawing games 0-0 or 1-1 like we were even in our good run in November/December.
If you look at our games, oppositon teams are actively targeting Bennett/Stevens at left back. Southampton and Bradford did it with success and I'm sure Pardew will play Obertan tommorrow on the right to have a go down that side. For me this window a left back has become a must, probably over a cb.
4 pires was before the window. It's also important to note that it was different circumstances as that was after a summer with no signings (other than Ireland as part of the Milner deal). This year we had a big squad churn in the summer, repeating that this month was never on the cards.
I also think you're undervaluing the central midfielder we sorely need. The current problems, as we've seen all season, is that we have no one controlling the midfield, if we get someone to do that we'll have the ball in midfield higher up the pitch, Bent, Benteke and Weimann will all score goals if we get them good service, that starts by getting the ball into the right areas at the feet of the midfielders.
I mentioned it all month but to repeat, Bannan and Delph in particular have been far too deep all season, practically playing on the toes of the defenders. I think both can contribute a lot more 20-30yards up the pitch. Bannan's biggest problem is that someone in the summer suggested to him that he can do the Pirlo 'quarterback' role and he's let it go to his head.
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Bannan is ok further forward I agree
WE are 2 players from a side that will win 5-6 games IMO. A defender and a big hard midfielder.
It is very, very sad that we look like not getting either.
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With a centre half of quality and a good defensive midfielder, we would be 5, maybe 8 points better off in 2013.
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With a centre half of quality and a good defensive midfielder, we would be 5, maybe 8 points better off in 2013.
And going to Wembley and still in the FA cup.
It's saddening that this hadn't been spotted before the end of August.
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With a centre half of quality and a good defensive midfielder, we would be 5, maybe 8 points better off in 2013.
And going to Wembley and still in the FA cup.
It's saddening that this hadn't been spotted before the end of August.
Or sorted by the beginning of January
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With a centre half of quality and a good defensive midfielder, we would be 5, maybe 8 points better off in 2013.
And going to Wembley and still in the FA cup.
It's saddening that this hadn't been spotted before the end of August.
I think he expected KEA to be the midfielder we needed and Dunne to be back much sooner. By the time it was clear that both of those things were wrong it was long after the deadline. Should have been rectified earlier in this window though.
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I think the fact that he tried to sign Sissoko shows he knows exactly what our problems are and is trying to rectify it, but can't when we are operating on a budget to set ourselves up for the Championship next year.
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I'm bored of people saying 'he's shit, they're shit, we're down already' without being willing to accept there are any other factors and without conceding there are good points.
It's as if the world has ended.
At the moment, what our players need is support and guidance, you could see Bennett suffer against Bradford when the moans and groans started from the fans. He, amongst others need supporting rather than dismissing as being shit.
Some fans want Lambert out now and are (subconsciously or not) just coming out with that mantra regardless.
I like the way you use 'regardless' as if there aren't a multitude of reasons for wanting rid of our worst and most incompetent manager in living memory.
Incompetent is just your interpretation and takes no account of the circumstances he has had to deal with since his arrival. His record prior to joining us suggests he's a decent manager, so it's perfectly reasonable for a fair minded person to feel that he deserves to be given time.
It's my interpretation backed up by hard stats of the appalling job he's done since he's been here, after spending £20m+ on a squad that McLeish kept up. Only one of the players he has bought has looked ready for the Premier League, and the more time he's given, the worse the mess he's getting us in to. His record prior to joining us will be utterly irrelevant if he relegates us, as looks increasingly likely. There are dozens of managers who have one or two good years before then disappearing down the proverbial shitter. Lambert will be the next. If we'd kept McLeish this season, and Lambert was having the results he's had this season, but at Norwich, who would be calling for him to be the new manager? Absolutely nobody at all. He's a laughing stock amongst fans of other teams, this will be the last big job he has, before slipping back into Phil Brown/Owen Coyle territory.
Look risso, i agree that lambert has been poor and i agree he should have been sacked but sadly randy has decided to stick by him and in that case we simply must get behind him and hope he turns it around - he aint going anywhere so like it or not we need to unite behind him - theres no other choice in the current situation.
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I'm bored of people saying 'he's shit, they're shit, we're down already' without being willing to accept there are any other factors and without conceding there are good points.
It's as if the world has ended.
At the moment, what our players need is support and guidance, you could see Bennett suffer against Bradford when the moans and groans started from the fans. He, amongst others need supporting rather than dismissing as being shit.
Some fans want Lambert out now and are (subconsciously or not) just coming out with that mantra regardless.
I like the way you use 'regardless' as if there aren't a multitude of reasons for wanting rid of our worst and most incompetent manager in living memory.
Incompetent is just your interpretation and takes no account of the circumstances he has had to deal with since his arrival. His record prior to joining us suggests he's a decent manager, so it's perfectly reasonable for a fair minded person to feel that he deserves to be given time.
It's my interpretation backed up by hard stats of the appalling job he's done since he's been here, after spending £20m+ on a squad that McLeish kept up. Only one of the players he has bought has looked ready for the Premier League, and the more time he's given, the worse the mess he's getting us in to. His record prior to joining us will be utterly irrelevant if he relegates us, as looks increasingly likely. There are dozens of managers who have one or two good years before then disappearing down the proverbial shitter. Lambert will be the next. If we'd kept McLeish this season, and Lambert was having the results he's had this season, but at Norwich, who would be calling for him to be the new manager? Absolutely nobody at all. He's a laughing stock amongst fans of other teams, this will be the last big job he has, before slipping back into Phil Brown/Owen Coyle territory.
Look risso, i agree that lambert has been poor and i agree he should have been sacked but sadly randy has decided to stick by him and in that case we simply must get behind him and hope he turns it around - he aint going anywhere so like it or not we need to unite behind him - theres no other choice in the current situation.
That's probably what General Custers men said just before the Little Big Horn
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Probably right mark, but all the boos and protests in the world are not going to make randy sack him right now so best to put all our energy into getting behind the team - lets be clear i totally agree lambert should have been sacked by now on results alone but I have resigned myself to the fact it wont happen.
Our best hope is he spends the money he has well and brings in 2 or 3 quality players to improve the team.
Even if we lost 0-6 tonight he will not be sacked so we have no option but accept that.
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We don't have to accept anything of the sort eastie. There isn't much we can do about it maybe, but we haven't got to like it.
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We don't have to accept anything of the sort eastie. There isn't much we can do about it maybe, but we haven't got to like it.
We havent got to like it , but we have got to live with it im afraid.
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The fans have spent the whole season getting behind Lambert and the team even when we were 0-8 down to Chelsea and 3-0 to Wigan.Not to mention the incredible support at the home leg, followed up by practically selling out the allocation against Millwall only to be repaid by complete and utter ineptitude and being told on a daily basis that we are very unlikely to make any signings because Randy has made it practically impossible to, as in his wisdom he has decided to slam the brakes on spending on what can be described as the most critical point in Villas history.I think Jehovah would be struggling at the moment to be honest
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The fans have spent the whole season getting behind Lambert and the team even when we were 0-8 down to Chelsea and 3-0 to Wigan.Not to mention the incredible support at the home leg, followed up by practically selling out the allocation against Millwall only to be repaid by complete and utter ineptitude and being told on a daily basis that we are very unlikely to make any signings because Randy has made it practically impossible to, as in his wisdom he has decided to slam the brakes on spending on what can be described as the most critical point in Villas history.I think Jehovah would be struggling at the moment to be honest
I would like to Witness that.
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Just saw this on the bbc -
If Premier League games ended at half-time, Villa would be sixth in the table (32 of the 44 goals they have conceded have been in the second half).
It's hard to know what to make of this. On the one hand, perhaps he is not too far off getting it right. On the other hand, why can't he do something about our inevitable second half collapse?
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Just saw this on the bbc -
If Premier League games ended at half-time, Villa would be sixth in the table (32 of the 44 goals they have conceded have been in the second half).
It's hard to know what to make of this. On the one hand, perhaps he is not too far off getting it right. On the other hand, why can't he do something about our inevitable second half collapse?
More to the point, what the hell must he say at half-time????
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Exactly every match its the same the 2nd half we are useless.
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We don't have to accept anything of the sort eastie. There isn't much we can do about it maybe, but we haven't got to like it.
You are mental, but in a nice way.
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Just saw this on the bbc -
If Premier League games ended at half-time, Villa would be sixth in the table (32 of the 44 goals they have conceded have been in the second half).
It's hard to know what to make of this. On the one hand, perhaps he is not too far off getting it right. On the other hand, why can't he do something about our inevitable second half collapse?
More to the point, what the hell must he say at half-time????
I know it's fairly flimsy evidence from what we see but I can hardly imagine that our dressing room is a barrel of laughs.
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I imagine its more to do with the fact that any opposition we play always knows there is a way of getting back into the game. That statistic is actually very encouraging. It says the players are good enough but may be lack defensive organisation, but almost certainly lack experience.
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I am with risso on this one. I think we got behind the team and the manager last season in a very creditable way. Despite the tabloid bollocks of us all hating TSM because he came with his knuckles dragging I think we gave him a fair shout right up to the Bolton game before we snapped and demanded his departure.
I have been to a lot of away games and I have never seen the away fans, who in my eyes are the heartbeat of the club, boo off the team and the manager the way we - yes I include myself - did at Millwall. That game was one capitulation too far.
Getting behind the team at the moment is like knocking on your bedroom door while the next door neighbour is giving your wife one and saying "your dinner is on the table dear when you have quite finished".
There are times in your life when you say enough is enough and this is one of those times.
Only one man needs to get behind the team and the manager and he has flatly refused to do so.
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Just saw this on the bbc -
If Premier League games ended at half-time, Villa would be sixth in the table (32 of the 44 goals they have conceded have been in the second half).
It's hard to know what to make of this. On the one hand, perhaps he is not too far off getting it right. On the other hand, why can't he do something about our inevitable second half collapse?
More to the point, what the hell must he say at half-time????
I know it's fairly flimsy evidence from what we see but I can hardly imagine that our dressing room is a barrel of laughs.
Let someone else talk at half time!
Or the kids tire and lose concentration.
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Or the kids tire and lose concentration.
I do think that this is the problem. Lambert sees it and brings on substitutes but the bench is so weak that it weakens the team rather than adding energy.
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We are buried with this rabble.
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OUT OUT OUT
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Or the kids tire and lose concentration.
I do think that this is the problem. Lambert sees it and brings on substitutes but the bench is so weak that it weakens the team rather than adding energy.
It's that the decisions he makes are wrong, I can't think of a sub he's made that has turned the game in our favour, but those players have started other games and done well in the first half.
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I wanted him. I've hoped and I've willed. But, belatedly, I've now had enough. Sack him. Get in someone, anyone. Contract to the end of the season. £5 million bonus if he keeps us up. Probably too late, but at least we might get some glimmer of hope from the dead cat bounce.
This is worse than 87. Probably because I was a 22 year old student with a lovely girlfriend who helped keep my mind off the shitness of it all... no such luck this time round!
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Sorry first half was all his tactical cock up, and it killed us completely.
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Sorry first half was all his tactical cock up, and it killed us completely.
Amen.
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OUT! Still. The first half was abysmal. Again.
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Still out, please.
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In, and play the team that was there for the second half every game.
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It's as plain as day Lambert, 5 at the back does not fucking work. You want to see two contrasts of halves of football and that was all down to your tactical idiocy of 5 at the back.
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Out He's effing useless
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Lets fast forward to when we are in the championship. Is this guy even good enough to get us out? Its a different type of side to the one he had at Norwich.
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Don't talk about the second half Lambert in the post match, explain how you could get it so terribly wrong in the first and cost us the game.
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For all that people are saying Lambert remains our best chance of staying up, the evidence from tonight is that he's actually costing us points.
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OUT
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Despite taking on a difficult role, Lambert is making such basic errors that any excuses regarding funding etc are buried.
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We are done for.
I don't know what to think anymore.
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Sadly I have to admit that we would be better off without Lambert. As I said on the match thread if we cant change the team the only other thing we can change is the manager. We don't have to sack him, just put him on gardening leave, pay him out when we can afford it.
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I know he should go. You probably know he should go. Lerner knows he probably should go. He knows he should go. He won't go. The end.
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Lerner can take the money saved in the transfer market, (or sell Bent to get funds) to pay off Lambert and bring in Phil Brown. I'm not saying he will have any chance of keeping us up but at least their will be more variety in both the post match interviews and the players wives bedrooms.
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The time to have shifted Lambert was 3 weeks ago.
Enough of us saw that at the time and said now is the time for Randy to stick our twist and whoever is in charge he HAS to back him financially.
His procrastination, whatever camp you're in, will kill us off.
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Lerner can take the money saved in the transfer market, (or sell Bent to get funds) to pay off Lambert and bring in Phil Brown. I'm not saying he will have any chance of keeping us up but at least their will be more variety in both the post match interviews and the players wives bedrooms.
Randy can take the money saved in the transfer market and shove it up Lamberts arse...
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Midfield has been our achilles heal for some time now, his biggest mistake was the players he bought in to play that role,Westwood and Kea, simply not good or strong enough. It has been our downfall all season and why we will almost cartainly be relegated.
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Phil Brown? Are things that bad? Dowie as assistant manager & where is Dave Bassett?
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We are done for.
I don't know what to think anymore.
Yep all tonight has proved is that it's essentially all Lambert's fault.
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Midfield has been our achilles heal for some time now, his biggest mistake was the players he bought in to play that role,Westwood and Kea, simply not good or strong enough. It has been our downfall all season and why we will almost cartainly be relegated.
I remember all the positivity about those hungry young signings. I just wanted a couple of gnarled old pros (ooh matron). The year after a brush with relegation was never the time for a worthy but risky experiment. Most applauded it at the time though.
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Midfield has been our achilles heal for some time now, his biggest mistake was the players he bought in to play that role,Westwood and Kea, simply not good or strong enough. It has been our downfall all season and why we will almost cartainly be relegated.
I remember all the positivity about those hungry young signings. I just wanted a couple of gnarled old pros (ooh matron). The year after a brush with relegation was never the time for a worthy but risky experiment. Most applauded it at the time though.
"Worthy but risky." I'll be stealing that before long.
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I made my mind up after the first leg against Bradford, and nothing has made even slightly reconsider that standpoint.
He may have been a good manager before and may do well again but clinging onto him will see us drop.
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What happened to the 4-2-3-1 formation? We didn't do too badly then, did we?!
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I made my mind up after the first leg against Bradford, and nothing has made even slightly reconsider that standpoint.
He may have been a good manager before and may do well again but clinging onto him will see us drop.
Who will do better?
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I remember all the positivity about those hungry young signings. I just wanted a couple of gnarled old pros (ooh matron). The year after a brush with relegation was never the time for a worthy but risky experiment. Most applauded it at the time though.
That's just it, I don't think it was an experiment. It was an imposition, dictated by Lerner / Faulkner's determination to bring the wage bill down. At any cost, seemingly. I don't think at any point prior to the start of this season anyone at the club said, "Hmm, shall we go with youth or old pros or a mix of the two?" And even if they did, the answer must have come back like lightning - "Whichever is the cheapest."
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I made my mind up after the first leg against Bradford, and nothing has made even slightly reconsider that standpoint.
He may have been a good manager before and may do well again but clinging onto him will see us drop.
Who will do better?
Who wouldn't do better?Nobody could do any worse
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I remember all the positivity about those hungry young signings. I just wanted a couple of gnarled old pros (ooh matron). The year after a brush with relegation was never the time for a worthy but risky experiment. Most applauded it at the time though.
That's just it, I don't think it was an experiment. It was an imposition, dictated by Lerner / Faulkner's determination to bring the wage bill down. At any cost, seemingly. I don't think at any point prior to the start of this season anyone at the club said, "Hmm, shall we go with youth or old pros or a mix of the two?" And even if they did, the answer must have come back like lightning - "Whichever is the cheapest."
I disagree, but we'll never know. I think Lambert convinced Randy that for a mere £20 million he could find him a load of diamonds from lower leagues who would appreciate in value, play for peanuts and get him results. 'I did it at Norwich, I'll do it for you'. And so Randy gave him a job.
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"I've never seen a standing ovation after getting beat before but that shows the effort we put in in the second half. We never played well in the first half all but I couldn't fault them after the break. Sometimes it is easy to play at 2-0 down because noone expects anything.''
God Almighty, if that's what you've taken from this game we're fucked Lambert.
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If he doesn't walk he has no dignity. But that's modern football. No dignity whatsoever.
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I remember all the positivity about those hungry young signings. I just wanted a couple of gnarled old pros (ooh matron). The year after a brush with relegation was never the time for a worthy but risky experiment. Most applauded it at the time though.
That's just it, I don't think it was an experiment. It was an imposition, dictated by Lerner / Faulkner's determination to bring the wage bill down. At any cost, seemingly. I don't think at any point prior to the start of this season anyone at the club said, "Hmm, shall we go with youth or old pros or a mix of the two?" And even if they did, the answer must have come back like lightning - "Whichever is the cheapest."
Think it was Lambert's decision to spend c£25m on generally unproven players. Tonight has shown for the umpteenth time that we lack experience and more importantly a seasoned leader or two. He chose not to buy those types.
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He hasn't the decency or dignity to resign so he has to removed from the club by the chairman. He doesn't deserve to be manager of our great club.
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Did the crowd turn tonight?
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He hasn't the decency or dignity to resign so he has to removed from the club by the chairman. He doesn't deserve to be manager of our great club.
The sad thing is lerner thinks hes the bees knees - lambert is lerners puppet , he wont be sacked and we will go down with a whimper- heartbreaking to see our great club brought to its knees in this way.
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He hasn't the decency or dignity to resign so he has to removed from the club by the chairman. He doesn't deserve to be manager of our great club.
The sad thing is lerner thinks hes the bees knees - lambert is lerners puppet , he wont be sacked and we will go down with a whimper- heartbreaking to see our great club brought to its knees in this way.
Lerner probably thinks he's the bees knees because he tells him his amazing new policy for running the club - which involves stripping back, selling the good players, and replacing them with a cunning mix of shit ones and teenagers - is actually the future.
Lerner knows nothing about football, and clearly knows nothing about the club he owns.
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Midfield has been our achilles heal for some time now, his biggest mistake was the players he bought in to play that role,Westwood and Kea, simply not good or strong enough. It has been our downfall all season and why we will almost cartainly be relegated.
I remember all the positivity about those hungry young signings. I just wanted a couple of gnarled old pros (ooh matron). The year after a brush with relegation was never the time for a worthy but risky experiment. Most applauded it at the time though.
What is it with us and foreign imports though. For years we get none in and now we have they justify why we MON was right not to get them in. The experience this season should have come from Ron and KEA. They both have experience of playing in big matches previously.
Pardew gets Sissoko in who looks like he has hit the ground running (although I will make a full judgement on him when he is playing against proper midfielders and not Bannan). We get KEA and Makoun in who are both similar players and we get nothing. Vlaar looked like he was going to be a no nonsense defender who will be a great leader for us a la Olaf, instead he looks like a cross between Curtis and Alpay at his worst with no leadership for the youngsters to follow.
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He hasn't the decency or dignity to resign so he has to removed from the club by the chairman. He doesn't deserve to be manager of our great club.
The sad thing is lerner thinks hes the bees knees - lambert is lerners puppet , he wont be sacked and we will go down with a whimper- heartbreaking to see our great club brought to its knees in this way.
Lerner probably thinks he's the bees knees because he tells him his amazing new policy for running the club - which involves stripping back, selling the good players, and replacing them with a cunning mix of shit ones and teenagers - is actually the future.
Lerner knows nothing about football, and clearly knows nothing about the club he owns.
And lambert spouts shit to him about dominating the millwall game etc, two fools together .
"We wont go down, we'll be fine , i just know it , we go again "- fucking clueless tosser and lerner hangs on his every word.
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"I've never seen a standing ovation after getting beat before but that shows the effort we put in in the second half. We never played well in the first half all but I couldn't fault them after the break. Sometimes it is easy to play at 2-0 down because noone expects anything.''
He didn't say that did he :0.Did they really get a standing ovation???
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"It wasn't the system"
Is that right Paul? your a fucking idiot if you can't see that your system in the first half was shit
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"It wasn't the system"
Is that right Paul? your a fucking idiot if you can't see that your system in the first half was shit
Something about football managers, especially Villa managers, they are always the last ones to see what is blindingly obvious to everyone else on the planet.
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Lambert is our very own Steve Keane.He won't get the boot until we're in the arse end of the Championship
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I've a terrible bout of Lambert diarrhoea. I've only just gone and I've got to go again.
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Apparently it's not about systems, it's about players. What on earth is he fucking on about? That's just stupid talk from a desperate man.
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Lambert is our very own Steve Keane.He won't get the boot until we're in the arse end of the Championship
And the next manager will do even worse until he is booted 10 games in.
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"It wasn't the system it was the players"
Confirmation, if needed, that he's lost the bloody plot. When will he take some of the responsibility. Hopeless.
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There isn't many managers in all 4 divisions that I wouldn't rather be in charge right now.
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is there a saying about rather having a lucky manager than a good one, well Lambert is certainly not a lucky one
i wouldnt be supprised if he's gone by the weekend,
as much as the side did well in the second half tonight, it still didnt stop the rot, and no matter how much you try and support someone if it aint gona happen then you might as well try another way
i thought if we lost against Newcastle he would be a gonner, i think he could get sacked this week
i know people will say he's not going anywhere, and Lerner believes in him, but that was all said about TSM and he went when lots thought he was here for the long term
i dont think Lerner is an idiot, and he must be able to see that no matter what Lambert does, its not working, i reckon he'l be on his way soon enough
i'm not saying i want this to happen i just think it will
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is there a saying about rather having a lucky manager than a good one, well Lambert is certainly not a lucky one
i wouldnt be supprised if he's gone by the weekend,
as much as the side did well in the second half tonight, it still didnt stop the rot, and no matter how much you try and support someone if it aint gona happen then you might as well try another way
i thought if we lost against Newcastle he would be a gonner, i think he could get sacked this week
i know people will say he's not going anywhere, and Lerner believes in him, but that was all said about TSM and he went when lots thought he was here for the long term
i dont think Lerner is an idiot, and he must be able to see that no matter what Lambert does, its not working, i reckon he'l be on his way soon enough
I think i agree with you. Enough is enough and i think somebody looking in from outside could change things very quickly. Who though, is the question. Who is out there to become the next Villa manager ?
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"It wasn't the system it was the players"
Confirmation, if needed, that he's lost the bloody plot. When will he take some of the responsibility. Hopeless.
What utter shite.
In the 2nd half we had more people in midfield and hence were able to get the ball.
But hey this is a manager who sticks 4 strikers on in a match with no midfield ...quite simply out of his depth
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i thought if we lost against Newcastle he would be a gonner, i think he could get sacked this week
i know people will say he's not going anywhere, and Lerner believes in him, but that was all said about TSM and he went when lots thought he was here for the long term
TSM was got rid off due to the season ticket sales being so low and so many saying they weren't coming back to watch those turgid displays. Without that impromptu phone survey, I doubt he would have gone.
But I can see Lerner/Faulkner making the decision now/in the next few days so no money is spent in the transfer window. They did the same to some extent when MON walked. We still had three weeks of a transfer window left but appointments were delayed until after it closed.
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What concerns me is that if he doesn't go before we're relegated, we'll be stuck with the same endless cycle of Championship managers that do six months at a club then are sacked because of mediocre form...Billy Davies, Sean O'Driscoll, Mick McCarthy et al. We'll be talking about Steve Bruce as a mastermind because the coaches that know slight things about tactics won't look at us twice.
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Are the players good enough to have us higher up the table than we currently are? Other than the strikers, I don't think so personally.
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Yep. Final nail in the coffin for me,he's got to go. Defending absolutely shocking for the first goal, and we lost it in the first half despite a decent second half performance, similar to how we lost the semi final in the first game. The balance of the squad is shocking, Weimann and Gabby can't start because of the players in front of them in the pecking order yet the continually shit Bannan, Clark, Baker and Bennett all start because we have no one else. Tactically he hasn't got a clue what to do for the best and he doesn't know his best team. I'm both bitterly disappointed and amazed at how shit he's been, as i admit he was my first choice for the job last summer.
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Who'd have thunk it last season away at Norwich when Eck was getting dogs abuse that we'd get the man most of us wanted and he'd do a worse job? It's a funny old world as they say.
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I've tried to be positive about Lambert. He inherited a difficult situation and made worthy but risky signings (as someone aptly phrased it earlier on this thread).
But tonight was beyond the pale in tactical ineptness.
Fact - we haven't got the players for 3-5-2 (full backs get pushed back leaving the midfield pair totally fucked)
Fact - he can't get Bent and Benteke to play together
Then we switched to 4-4-2. Gabby and Weiman started to turn the game. But then Gabby drifted into the the middle and we then tried to lay everything down the middle. WTF didn't Lambert sort this out?
Fact - the squad is poor and confidence is shot, but could scrape through by the skin of its teeth if we played Gabby out on the left, N'Zog on the right and Weimann off Benteke down the centre.
A definition of madness is repeatedly doing the same thing but expecting different results. Persisting with 3-5-2 by this definition is madness. Allowing Gabby to drift inside is madness. Not playing Weimann from the start is madness.
Gentlemen - I suspect we have a madman in charge. Hopefully I'm wrong and he sorts this out.
Is hope triumphing over expectations another sign of madness?
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Fact-ing hell!
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We've already said.....
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I've tried to be positive about Lambert. He inherited a difficult situation and made worthy but risky signings (as someone aptly phrased it earlier on this thread).
But tonight was beyond the pale in tactical ineptness.
Fact - we haven't got the players for 3-5-2 (full backs get pushed back leaving the midfield pair totally fucked)
Fact - he can't get Bent and Benteke to play together
Then we switched to 4-4-2. Gabby and Weiman started to turn the game. But then Gabby drifted into the the middle and we then tried to lay everything down the middle. WTF didn't Lambert sort this out?
Fact - the squad is poor and confidence is shot, but could scrape through by the skin of its teeth if we played Gabby out on the left, N'Zog on the right and Weimann off Benteke down the centre.
A definition of madness is repeatedly doing the same thing but expecting different results. Persisting with 3-5-2 by this definition is madness. Allowing Gabby to drift inside is madness. Not playing Weimann from the start is madness.
Gentlemen - I suspect we have a madman in charge. Hopefully I'm wrong and he sorts this out.
Is hope triumphing over expectations another sign of madness?
Erm....Yes, i think.
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looks like he's going to beat the TSM record of 4 home wins and 8 home defeats from last year
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I want him to go, won't happen now, but when we are relegated he has to be sacked. We are by a country mile the worst team in this League, and whilst the underlying factor is the mismanagement of the Board, Lambert has been a huge failure and his tactics are just mind boggling to say the least
And to think that I too thought that he was the man for us.
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"It wasn't the system"
Is that right Paul? your a fucking idiot if you can't see that your system in the first half was shit
Is that what he said? If he did, he's a dead man walking
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I just can't believe he is going to continue as manager.Does anybody think there is any hope of him turning thing around? He has got to go,I actually don't care who takes over.Nobody could do any worse
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The board have made their bed now with the statement.
He's here till the end of the season and will probably be the first villa manager to take us down since McNeil so in esteemed company.
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Yes they've backed themselves into a corner once again. Idiots
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This time last week, I posted that we should stick with him.
Then I re-considered after Millwall, but concluded that we should still stick with him due to the lack of a feasible alternative. DiMatteo would never take the job, etc..
Tonight.... enough is enough.
Frankly, I would rather us take a chance on David Platt to manage us to stay up. He would leave man City for the job, I'm sure......
If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.
We need a change.
Something has to change to change our fortunes.
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"It wasn't the system"
Is that right Paul? your a fucking idiot if you can't see that your system in the first half was shit
Something about football managers, especially Villa managers, they are always the last ones to see what is blindingly obvious to everyone else on the planet.
Oh Jesus, isn't that the truth.
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This time last week, I posted that we should stick with him.
Then I re-considered after Millwall, but concluded that we should still stick with him due to the lack of a feasible alternative. DiMatteo would never take the job, etc..
Tonight.... enough is enough.
Frankly, I would rather us take a chance on David Platt to manage us to stay up. He would leave man City for the job, I'm sure......
If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.
We need a change.
Something has to change to change our fortunes.
That's how I feel.
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Worst manager in league.
Can't beat a 4th divison team over 2 legs
Plays 5 in defence against Milwall giving us no midfield ..another loss
Conceded 6 scored 1 in 3 games against relegation rivals in league
4 wins in 24
Lerner is the big problem and his shoddy running of club but Lambert is useless and I'd bet any other manager in league could get more from these players.
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No to david Platt. but who else. I wouldn't touch di matteo as it was teh Chelsea players that won the Cup and not him. So basically we're going back to mangers with potential rather than a proven track record.
here's one for you - Pulis. Crap teams that he has yes, but he's never been relegated in his managerial career. I'd just like someone who could stabilise us and keep us up. i can't be bothered getting arguments about his teams and crap football because we are shit and are going down. Stoke aren't.
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Why on earth would Pulis leave a well run club like Stoke to join this complete and utter shambles. With a chairman who is practically non existent
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I've just seen his post match interview.
I know we'd just lost but heavens above, he comes across as a beaten man, so dour, so negative. I don't expect a laugh a minute but how about a bit of bravado in the face of adversity?
God knows how that comes across to the players.
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I just can't believe he is going to continue as manager.Does anybody think there is any hope of him turning thing around? He has got to go,I actually don't care who takes over.Nobody could do any worse
The problem is lerner loves him and thinks hes great - two fools together!
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The board have made their bed now with the statement.
He's here till the end of the season and will probably be the first villa manager to take us down since McNeil so in esteemed company.
What is it about ex-Celtic European Cup winners?
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Anyone still think we need continuity with this joker in charge?
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I've just seen his post match interview.
I know we'd just lost but heavens above, he comes across as a beaten man, so dour, so negative. I don't expect a laugh a minute but how about a bit of bravado in the face of adversity?
God knows how that comes across to the players.
He's Scottish, that's how they are.
Take a look at Alex 'laugh a minute' Ferguson.
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"It wasn't the system it was the players"
Confirmation, if needed, that he's lost the bloody plot. When will he take some of the responsibility. Hopeless.
Agreed. Another ranting mumbling interview which puts the blame firmly on the players after previously backing them as good enough to see us safe. He's lost it.
Just cannot see the downward spiral stopping with him in charge
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You can get away with being dour when you're a good manager
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"It wasn't the system"
Is that right Paul? your a fucking idiot if you can't see that your system in the first half was shit
Is that what he said? If he did, he's a dead man walking
He said it during the post match interview on 5 Live, I was just getting on the Aston Expressway on my way home from the match when I heard it, I was so angry I almost crashed the car!
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This time last week, I posted that we should stick with him.
Then I re-considered after Millwall, but concluded that we should still stick with him due to the lack of a feasible alternative. DiMatteo would never take the job, etc..
Tonight.... enough is enough.
Frankly, I would rather us take a chance on David Platt to manage us to stay up. He would leave man City for the job, I'm sure......
If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.
We need a change.
Something has to change to change our fortunes.
That would be a bad appointment. Platt is never a Number 1. Not that he would leave anyway.
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"It wasn't the system it was the players"
Confirmation, if needed, that he's lost the bloody plot. When will he take some of the responsibility. Hopeless.
Yep, because if it wasn't the system, why change it? PL may or may not be a complete moron, but he definitely seems to think everyone else is.
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It's come to the point where i don't want to hear what he has to say post match. - it just compounds the pain. I realise even a manager with great communication skills would struggle to win people round on the back of this run, but his recent gibberish is just embarrassing.
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When the manager knows he is safe, there's no incentive to up his game. Likewise with the players, who know they won't be losing their places - even if some of them would love to be taken out of the firing line. And when it comes to the senior players whose places aren't guaranteed (Ireland, Bent etc), they are earning so much money they couldn't give a shit - a few more weeks of this and they'll be off the books and sucking the lifeblood out of another Premier League team.
By making awful managerial appointments time after time, we've backed ourselves into a corner where we can't afford to sack a poor manager. And by sleepwalking through the transfer window, we've taken the pressure off our existing players because they know they'll be safe. The mismanagement of the club is multi-layered, each one as rotten as the last.
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It's quite depressing everytime I go on the bbc website there's a picture of Lambert looking hopeless at the top of the page. It sums up the fact he doesn't know what he's doing.
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Also Lambert's, 'experience doesn't guarantee anything' no Paul it doesn't but it gives us a much better chance. Surely you can see that your's and Randy's youth plan has been an utter disaster and you have to address it.
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Paul Lambert is another Owen Coyle.
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It's quite depressing everytime I go on the bbc website there's a picture of Lambert looking hopeless at the top of the page. It sums up the fact he doesn't know what he's doing.
Any other club would have sacked their manager by now - he should've gone after the Wigan game and certainly after the Southampton defeat. It's a results business and failure goes with the territory. OUT!
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This weekend I'm going away with the missus, and it'll be the first time that I haven't bothered to follow Villa's score. I just don't want them to ruin my weekend away.
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Aside from Lambert's "we go again" mantra, the most annoying thing he's said to date is: "We'll be fine." And then, when asked how, the answer: "We just will."
I can't think of any underperforming senior manager in any industry that would retain a shred of credibility after coming out with that childish crap.
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This weekend I'm going away with the missus, and it'll be the first time that I haven't bothered to follow Villa's score. I just don't want them to ruin my weekend away.
Bloody fair weather follower :)
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This weekend I'm going away with the missus, and it'll be the first time that I haven't bothered to follow Villa's score. I just don't want them to ruin my weekend away.
Bloody fair weather follower :)
I've forgotten what fair weather is!!
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Oh good Lambert's found a new pet phrase to replace "go again"
We are in a fight, everybody is in a fight, it's all about fighting," Lambert told BBC Radio 5 live.
And Lambert knows he is under no illusions how desperate the situation is.
"We are going to have to fight like hell to get ourselves out of it," he said,
"We are in a fight like everyone else. You have to fight for it. It's not going to get given to you."
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Oh good Lambert's found a new pet phrase to replace "go again"
We are in a fight, everybody is in a fight, it's all about fighting," Lambert told BBC Radio 5 live.
And Lambert knows he is under no illusions how desperate the situation is.
"We are going to have to fight like hell to get ourselves out of it," he said,
"We are in a fight like everyone else. You have to fight for it. It's not going to get given to you."
He talks a good fight i'll say that. Pity he doesn't put it into practise.
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This weekend I'm going away with the missus, and it'll be the first time that I haven't bothered to follow Villa's score. I just don't want them to ruin my weekend away.
Following villa has become a chore. A fellow Irish villan was hoping to have a Villa themed stag in Birmingham but is having second thoughts now. It would have been great to go over for a weekend with a group of us but what is the point in ruining what should be one of the best weekends of his life? Watching what is happening to the club is painful.
Just to add, none of us would have any complaints if we dropped having given it our best shot. If we signed a few players and fought for every point we know we'd have given it our best shot. As things stand we are just sliding into the Championship and aren't doing a single thing, on or off the pitch, to avert the slide.
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Bear with me here...
There's a character in the Russell Crowe film Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World who is considered an unlucky omen, a 'Jonah' by the rest of the crew. He is accused of bringing bad luck to the ship and the crew shy away from him despite there being no rationale reason for this. The ship becomes stranded by a lack of wind and the crew are on the verge of mutiny. The Jonah commits suicide by jumping into the sea and by chance the winds pick up and everyone lives happily ever after.
For the sake of the good ship Aston Villa I think we need our own Jonah Lambert to jump overboard (metaphorically speaking of course).
There's a good team in there somewhere and they show it in patches. They're not just inconsistent from match to match it's from half to half. I think we need someone new to just shake things up, get them to play the right system and teach them how to defend bloody corners... I had hoped he may be able to turn things around but it's not looking likely...
Do the decent thing Paul, there's no shame in walking away.
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End of the day we are doomed this season
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This weekend I'm going away with the missus, and it'll be the first time that I haven't bothered to follow Villa's score. I just don't want them to ruin my weekend away.
Maybe we should run a book on who scores the most. You or the Villa. Or for the masochists we can include Everton.
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This weekend I'm going away with the missus, and it'll be the first time that I haven't bothered to follow Villa's score. I just don't want them to ruin my weekend away.
Maybe we should run a book on who scores the most. You or the Villa. Or for the masochists we can include Everton.
Ha ha well I'll sacrifice my own physical pleasure for a Villa win.
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Our only hope of survival is to jettison this mealy mouthed shithead.
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Our only hope of survival is to jettison this mealy mouthed shithead.
And there is absolutely zero chance of that.
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Paul Lambert can breathe a sigh of relief. He's been backed - by Alex Mcleish:
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2013/01/30/3712423/-?
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Paul Lambert can breathe a sigh of relief. He's been backed - by Alex Mcleish:
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2013/01/30/3712423/-?
Thats like Robert Mugabwe endorsing Idi Amin !
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Sack the twat
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If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.
We need a change.
Something has to change to change our fortunes.
True. Which is why changing manager again won't work, we'll be left in exactly the same situation as we have numerous times, fumbling around, changing players, not achieving anything, having no plan.....
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Aside from Lambert's "we go again" mantra, the most annoying thing he's said to date is: "We'll be fine." And then, when asked how, the answer: "We just will."
I can't think of any underperforming senior manager in any industry that would retain a shred of credibility after coming out with that childish crap.
And the very depressing thought is that he will be with us again for perhaps a couple of seasons. Just imagine how irritating it is going to be as he makes excuses for losing 3-0 at home to Barnsley!!
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Aside from Lambert's "we go again" mantra, the most annoying thing he's said to date is: "We'll be fine." And then, when asked how, the answer: "We just will."
I can't think of any underperforming senior manager in any industry that would retain a shred of credibility after coming out with that childish crap.
And the very depressing thought is that he will be with us again for perhaps a couple of seasons. Just imagine how irritating it is going to be as he makes excuses for losing 3-0 at home to Barnsley!!
At least it isnt "fair play to Donnie"
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for the first time the poll is in favour of the 'outs'
wasnt it 92% in favour of him staying at one point, i was one of them
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for the first time the poll is in favour of the 'outs'
wasnt it 92% in favour of him staying at one point, i was one of them
It it was to be reset,I'm sure it would be more
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True. Which is why changing manager again won't work, we'll be left in exactly the same situation as we have numerous times, fumbling around, changing players, not achieving anything, having no plan.....
When a player has a few stinkers, people don't say 'give him time, he'll come good'. It's always ' get him out the team he's shit'
And especially if they'd been fucking rank poor since August. Why is it different with a manager ?
Just saying 'we can't afford to let another manager go' makes no sense to me. If he was any good then of course (same with a good player) but please tell me why we can't get rid of another appalling manager ?
What possible benefit will there be to Aston Villa in keeping this failure onboard ?
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That first half display yesterday was wretched. Lambert never learns from his mistakes.
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With regards to Lamberts post match comments, I actually agree with him for once. The change in formation may well have helped but it didn't excuse the first half showing.
That was firmly down to the players. They just weren't working hard enough. They weren't closing down (esp midfield - Sissoko had time to take 3-4 touches, lift his head and pick a pass EVERY time) , they weren't getting stuck in, they weren't moving off the ball and so on and so on.
Christ knows what happened at half time to change their attitude. A rocket from Lambert ? I cant see it, because why hasn't he used that tactic before? I must admit , it occurred to me there may have been a row in the tunnel - possible taunting from the Barcodes that had been relegated at Villa Park?
Whatever fed that new found desire, Lambert better track it down and cage it, because while I'm going to cut him some slack over formations, he'll do well to remember player motivation comes under his responsibility too.
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That first half display yesterday was wretched. Lambert never learns from his mistakes.
It was because the players aren't good enough - Lambert said so so it must be true - nothing to do with his "tactics" - no sirrree not at all...
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My main gripe with Lambert is that he has been manager for seven months and still hasn't taught the team the basics. That means that we are pretty abysmal at our worst. It's sadly of little comfort that we can be pretty good when we are good; for our survival it is important the we can play pretty badly but still pick up some points: to do that you cannot neglect coaching basic defending.
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I see the prat is still in charge.
Another day too long.
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The more I watch Villa the more I think we're in the middle of a perfect storm with numerous factors contributing to our shortcomings.
1. Lambert. Tried to change to much too soon. Upset the senior pros (see Chelsea of last year). Only one year of premiership experience. Has a record of poor defensive organisation. Too stubborn to admit his errors.
2. Players. Too inexperienced at this level ( note - I did not say too young). Possible mutiny? Are Bent and Ireland being forced out along with Warnock and Hutton and are being disruptive influences? Results have led to confidence problems. Injuries to key players at key times.
3. Randy Lerner. Spending less money and time here than ever.
4. Fans. Week by week it seems the crowd sense impending doom and are more inclined to stay quiet/barrack than encourage the team. We're not stupid after all.
5. Almost forgot... The opposition, for the first time just about every club in relegation trouble seems to have money to burn and are strengthening at the exact time we can't (or won't).
It's a downward spiral alright. It would take something big to change our course now.
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for the first time the poll is in favour of the 'outs'
wasnt it 92% in favour of him staying at one point, i was one of them
It it was to be reset,I'm sure it would be more
It doesn't have to be reset. There is a "remove vote" option which means people can change their vote.
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Paul Lambert can breathe a sigh of relief. He's been backed - by Alex Mcleish:
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2013/01/30/3712423/-?
Thats like Robert Mugabwe endorsing Idi Amin !
How do you spell Idi Amin's first name?
Hi-di-oh!
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This thread has gone very quiet.
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It's eastie's fault. He has his own captive audience on the Transfer thread ;D
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It's eastie's fault. He has his own captive audience on the Transfer thread ;D
If he doesn't post every five minutes, an ambulance is sent for straight away.
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This thread has gone very quiet.
Well, he was briefly a hero for actually signing someone, but now he's a fuckwit because he's only signed another young unknown from a lower league while Pardew has bought half of France and Harry has signed half the world. So I think people were hedging their bets.
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I have changed my vote.
Get the fuck out of our club Lambert.
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The more I watch Villa the more I think we're in the middle of a perfect storm with numerous factors contributing to our shortcomings.
1. Lambert. Tried to change to much too soon. Upset the senior pros (see Chelsea of last year). Only one year of premiership experience. Has a record of poor defensive organisation. Too stubborn to admit his errors.
2. Players. Too inexperienced at this level ( note - I did not say too young). Possible mutiny? Are Bent and Ireland being forced out along with Warnock and Hutton and are being disruptive influences? Results have led to confidence problems. Injuries to key players at key times.
3. Randy Lerner. Spending less money and time here than ever.
4. Fans. Week by week it seems the crowd sense impending doom and are more inclined to stay quiet/barrack than encourage the team. We're not stupid after all.
5. Almost forgot... The opposition, for the first time just about every club in relegation trouble seems to have money to burn and are strengthening at the exact time we can't (or won't).
It's a downward spiral alright. It would take something big to change our course now.
Changing too much too soon is probably one of the reasons we're struggling and I also think that he's not used to deal with the big players like Ireland, Bent, N'Zogbia etc and that's probably part of the reason why they haven't performed (except N'Zogbia lately who at least seems to be putting real effort).
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Time for Lambchop to sling his hook. He's had the transfer window and he's failed. Only reason to keep him was the hope he'd spend wisely compared to a new guy who wouldn't have the time. He's totally ignored the defence so we'll carry on shipping goals at an alarming rate with his shite tactics, criminal organisation and non-existant motivational skills. Get a new guy so we've got a chance, or failing that someone who will take us down with a bit of fight and self-respect, rather than disappearing to the championship with all sorts of nasty historic records broken. He's out of his depth and out of time.
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Utter disaster thus far and I see no sign of improvement, hope I'm wrong.
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Oh well, at least the useless mumbling fucker has guaranteed that'll he never get a big job ever again. It's probably karma for all the teams he's walked out on, only we're paying the price.
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His insistence on playing mind fuck formations when any 12 year old sitting in the Holte can see that 4-4-2 might have won us a few home games will see us down. Thanks Lambert. Stubborness is definitely not a virtue.
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Couldn't scout out the smell of a fart in his own pants. On the other hand he might look a genius in 5 years if all these donkeys improve.
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Oh well, at least the useless mumbling fucker has guaranteed that'll he never get a big job ever again. It's probably karma for all the teams he's walked out on, only we're paying the price.
Or we could be facing karma for all the managers we've persuaded to walk out on their clubs for us?
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Put Doug in charge.
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The more I watch Villa the more I think we're in the middle of a perfect storm with numerous factors contributing to our shortcomings.
1. Lambert. Tried to change to much too soon. Upset the senior pros (see Chelsea of last year). Only one year of premiership experience. Has a record of poor defensive organisation. Too stubborn to admit his errors.
2. Players. Too inexperienced at this level ( note - I did not say too young). Possible mutiny? Are Bent and Ireland being forced out along with Warnock and Hutton and are being disruptive influences? Results have led to confidence problems. Injuries to key players at key times.
3. Randy Lerner. Spending less money and time here than ever.
4. Fans. Week by week it seems the crowd sense impending doom and are more inclined to stay quiet/barrack than encourage the team. We're not stupid after all.
5. Almost forgot... The opposition, for the first time just about every club in relegation trouble seems to have money to burn and are strengthening at the exact time we can't (or won't).
It's a downward spiral alright. It would take something big to change our course now.
Changing too much too soon is probably one of the reasons we're struggling and I also think that he's not used to deal with the big players like Ireland, Bent, N'Zogbia etc and that's probably part of the reason why they haven't performed (except N'Zogbia lately who at least seems to be putting real effort).
All good and well, but most of those weren't performing before he even got here. I'm sick of hearing people making excuses for players like Ireland (the formation doesn't suit him, the manager doesn't know how to deal with him) when in reality he is a work-shy waster who doesn't give a toss about the club.
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He clearly doesn't understand the concept of building from the back. But then looking at his record, his teams have never really been strong defensively. So it shouldn't come as a suprise. Someone once told me that he has a 'out-score your opponents' philosophy. The problem is we aren't scoring either. I think it's time to reset the poll again. ;)
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The more I watch Villa the more I think we're in the middle of a perfect storm with numerous factors contributing to our shortcomings.
1. Lambert. Tried to change to much too soon. Upset the senior pros (see Chelsea of last year). Only one year of premiership experience. Has a record of poor defensive organisation. Too stubborn to admit his errors.
2. Players. Too inexperienced at this level ( note - I did not say too young). Possible mutiny? Are Bent and Ireland being forced out along with Warnock and Hutton and are being disruptive influences? Results have led to confidence problems. Injuries to key players at key times.
3. Randy Lerner. Spending less money and time here than ever.
4. Fans. Week by week it seems the crowd sense impending doom and are more inclined to stay quiet/barrack than encourage the team. We're not stupid after all.
5. Almost forgot... The opposition, for the first time just about every club in relegation trouble seems to have money to burn and are strengthening at the exact time we can't (or won't).
It's a downward spiral alright. It would take something big to change our course now.
Changing too much too soon is probably one of the reasons we're struggling and I also think that he's not used to deal with the big players like Ireland, Bent, N'Zogbia etc and that's probably part of the reason why they haven't performed (except N'Zogbia lately who at least seems to be putting real effort).
All good and well, but most of those weren't performing before he even got here. I'm sick of hearing people making excuses for players like Ireland (the formation doesn't suit him, the manager doesn't know how to deal with him) when in reality he is a work-shy waster who doesn't give a toss about the club.
I'd add that Hutton, Warnock, Dunne, Collins Cuellar with Given in nets were pretty lousy at defending last season too.
Our poor record from corners (for and against) certainly didn't start this season.
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It doesn't have to be reset. There is a "remove vote" option which means people can change their vote.
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Great transfer business, have another standing ovation, Mr Lambert.
Enjoy that? Good, now fuck off.
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Kill them all!
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can we drown the witch?
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if not I vote we burn him.
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Some of the posts on this thread are shocking to put it mildly. He wasn't even my first or second choice but some of the treatment he gets on here is disgraceful. It's like some parallel universe exists where Lambert has taken a top 6 squad and turned them into a bunch of turds who don't try because his "motivational skills are useless" or his "tactics are shit". I saw no evidence of non-triers against newcastle. At the end of the day we are where we are because the squad isn't good enough, because the best players have gradually been ripped from it and when we have had substantial cash to spend we haven't spent it well enough. In Lambert's reign we've spent little when you consider the repair job that was needed after the previous season.
Is he not bothered about the defence? I very much doubt it. Could he have signed a better player than Clark or Baker with the transfer budget/wages available? Probably not. I very much doubt a manager who had the success he had a norwich can't see that individual errors at the back are costing us goals week after week. It's like logic has just disappeared in some cases. Some of the posts are more akin to children throwing their toys out of the pram because things haven't gone our way.
People need to have a good look at the events that have happened over the last few years and who has been sold and who replaced who, because the last person at fault here is the current manager. It just seems like anger and blind hatred have taken over some cases and has created a witch hunt mentality without any regard for where the real problem has arisen from.
We're all tactical geniuses with hindsight. There were plenty of different formations and personnel suggested before the game the other night yet afterwards everyone knew the right way didn't they? The fact is in football having quality players is far more important than good tactics. I know a lot of people didn't care for MON's tactics but we got results because we paid for quality players.
With the squad we have currently, I think we're one of the worst 3 squads in the division. If he keeps us up I think he'll have done a good job in his first season. If we go down, I can't say anything other than it was to be expected with the players we lost on top of finishing 16th and the amount of money he had available to replace this quality, not forgetting the extremely thin squad he had to work with.
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Some of the posts on this thread are shocking to put it mildly. He wasn't even my first or second choice but some of the treatment he gets on here is disgraceful. It's like some parallel universe exists where Lambert has taken a top 6 squad and turned them into a bunch of turds who don't try because his "motivational skills are useless" or his "tactics are shit". I saw no evidence of non-triers against newcastle. At the end of the day we are where we are because the squad isn't good enough, because the best players have gradually been ripped from it and when we have had substantial cash to spend we haven't spent it well enough. In Lambert's reign we've spent little when you consider the repair job that was needed after the previous season.
Is he not bothered about the defence? I very much doubt it. Could he have signed a better player than Clark or Baker with the transfer budget/wages available? Probably not. I very much doubt a manager who had the success he had a norwich can't see that individual errors at the back are costing us goals week after week. It's like logic has just disappeared in some cases. Some of the posts are more akin to children throwing their toys out of the pram because things haven't gone our way.
People need to have a good look at the events that have happened over the last few years and who has been sold and who replaced who, because the last person at fault here is the current manager. It just seems like anger and blind hatred have taken over some cases and has created a witch hunt mentality without any regard for where the real problem has arisen from.
We're all tactical geniuses with hindsight. There were plenty of different formations and personnel suggested before the game the other night yet afterwards everyone knew the right way didn't they? The fact is in football having quality players is far more important than good tactics. I know a lot of people didn't care for MON's tactics but we got results because we paid for quality players.
With the squad we have currently, I think we're one of the worst 3 squads in the division. If he keeps us up I think he'll have done a good job in his first season. If we go down, I can't say anything other than it was to be expected with the players we lost on top of finishing 16th and the amount of money he had available to replace this quality, not forgetting the extremely thin squad he had to work with.
Yes. That is all true. But Mr. Lambert knew all this when he signed up for the gig, did he not?
In fact he embraced it, and saw it as a great opportunity to conduct his experiment which happened to coincide with Randolph Lerner's vision of the jolly good fellow who would stop the excesses of the Rew Skis, Ay Rabs and In Juns.
In he words of a very old Cure song: "And dust on the lips of a vision from hell, I cried in the mirror for the first time in a year"
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Exactly Pl signed up for this, now it is plain to see why OGS did not, either way at the moment PL looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights and has no way of escaping the vehicle that is going to run him down. Out of his depth and not being assisted by our clueless top echelon.
In the words of a Status Quo song "Down Down going Down"
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It's a shame that things have come to this. We were pretty much all happy with PL coming in. Maybe that was partly down to how bad McLeish is. But even so, McLeish kept us up (just about). PL probably won't. He certainly won't come close to 38 points.
Lambert should have gone weeks ago. I mean QPR were decisive and it might save them. They look in good shape at the close of the window and are tough to beat. As for Soton. Sacking Adkins seems strange but they're looking now worse so far under the new guy, and they're comfortably above us. Newcastle will pull away now. Reading can't be written off given some of their results.
What's could decide things though is the fact that all the teams above us that we're scrapping with have scored more and conceded less than us. The form of the relegated teams is ranging from fairly decent to mediocre. They're on upward or level curves. We however are in a downward spiral looking unable to get clear. We can't have everything on Benteke's shoulders. He's always got a goal in him but it's evidently not enough.
We clearly don't have the money to fire him and/or attract a decent manager. I don't know who in the management game is out of work off the top of my head but if we paid a good wedge for an interim like Hiddink or similar, it could be a gamble that might save us, and thus more money long term. Lambert won't keep us up. Frankly I'd even take the punt on Curbs to do it. We're going down with this man at the reigns. I'd make the change. Something has to be done and done now.
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Can't wait to hear Rab C's press confrence today, assuming he's not sending Vlaar out to do it.
1 shot if he says ''Happy to go with what we've got''
2 shots if he says ''We go again''
3 shots if he says ''We've got to fight, you cannot lie down''
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In answer to Jocky Randall I have to disagree on some of your points. I had reservations about Lambert but thought he wasn't a bad choice overall. But his shortcomings have become obvious to anyone who cares to look recently.
If he is so aware of our defensive issues why hasn't he tried switching from man marking to zonal - it can't be any worse can it? Why hasn't he sought out a defensive coach? Why does he persist with 3 at the back when it's failed time after time? Why doesn't he put someone like Herd or Clark as a defensive midfielder to shield the back four? Why doesn't he address the blatant ball watching whilst the opponents stroll past them? Why doesn't he just try something, anything, different instead of repeating the same mistakes, and surprise, surprise, getting the same results? As for there not being anyone better available, for one, Upson on loan would have been better than Clark, and possibly Baker, because Clark is quite simply an awful centre back. I can't imagine we couldn't afford to pay him 25-30k a week until the end of the season. I doubt Brighton will be paying him more than that.
One cannot deny he inherited a weak squad, but for all the lauding of his signings he's arguably made it weaker. Are the full backs he signed better than Hutton and Warnock? In my view no. Bennett is dreadful, although he might make a left midfielder one day, Stevens and Lichaj little better. So why ostracize those two until you get someone better? Benteke and Guzan were great signings, but the rest have been mediocre at best, and I include Vlaar and Lowton in that. None of them have any pace, a vital requirement in the PL, all except Benteke and Vlaar lack strength, and only Guzan had any PL experience. How was adding that calibre of player to a bunch of unproven kids ever going to improve us?
As for tactics, well Jocky you don't have to be Jose Mourinho or use hindsight to see that a manager whose answer to falling behind to a level 4 team is to switch to a 4-1-5 or 4-0-6 formation is tactically inept. With no width and four strikers standing so close together you could throw a hula hoop over the lot of them. It was so farcical that many pundits and commentators were laughing or scratching their heads whilst wondering out loud if Lambert had completely lost his. I have never seen a Villa team so all over the place, not even Billy McBungle's.
Lambert inherited a difficult task, and is working with one hand tied behind his back for a bunch of fuckwits, but he's far from blameless for our current plight.
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I'm not sure if I've said this before, but I'll go with "out". The man is a disgrace to our great club and the game of football in general.
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So what if he signed up for it? Perhaps he signed up on the basis that he knew we may go down, that he was building for the future and that the club was rotten from top to bottom.
Of course he thought he could keep us up, he wouldn't be worth his salt if he didn't, however, sometimes these things just don't work.
I'm not happy about the situation we're in, far from it, but the way things look right now, I'm please there at least seems to be a long-term strategy forming.
I agree with Jockey.
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I'm not happy about the situation we're in, far from it, but the way things look right now, I'm please there at least seems to be a long-term strategy forming.
Failure isn't a strategy. You should apply to be Faulkner's right hand man spouting utter nonsense like that.
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Lambert did not spend all the budget last summer and he did not last month either- can he say he could not find a defender in a month?
Hes repeatedly said he believes this squad will stay up - fuck off then mumbles and give us a chance of survival.
Wont buy for the sake of it? What about buying to try and stat up you fool!
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I'm not happy about the situation we're in, far from it, but the way things look right now, I'm please there at least seems to be a long-term strategy forming.
Failure isn't a strategy. You should apply to be Faulkner's right hand man spouting utter nonsense like that.
No, and I didn't suggest it was. However, you carry on saying exactly the same thing over and over and over again.
You're like a broken record. You've no suggestions, no ideas, just the usual mantra that everyone is shit and should be sacked. You've not suggested an alternative that is credible, you've not come up with any sort of strategy yourself, no players, managers that can only perform with great players costing a fortune.
I've absolutely no doubt you'll evade the point again in reply to this whilst simultaneously having another dig at me and trying to mock what I'm suggesting. Your modus operandi is to mock and belittle others whose ideas you disagree with whilst offering nothing yourself.
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As sure as night follows day Risso will be the first to suggest sacking the next manager
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I'm not happy about the situation we're in, far from it, but the way things look right now, I'm please there at least seems to be a long-term strategy forming.
Failure isn't a strategy. You should apply to be Faulkner's right hand man spouting utter nonsense like that.
No, and I didn't suggest it was. However, you carry on saying exactly the same thing over and over and over again.
You're like a broken record. You've no suggestions, no ideas, just the usual mantra that everyone is shit and should be sacked. You've not suggested an alternative that is credible, you've not come up with any sort of strategy yourself, no players, managers that can only perform with great players costing a fortune.
I've absolutely no doubt you'll evade the point again in reply to this whilst simultaneously having another dig at me and trying to mock what I'm suggesting. Your modus operandi is to mock and belittle others whose ideas you disagree with whilst offering nothing yourself.
It's hard not to keep repeating the same thing over and over when the club keep making the same mistakes, over and over. I'll happily debate things properly with people who have got something worthwhile to say other than regurgitating the club's offical line in some feeble attempt to make themselves look like they've taken the moral high ground. As for strategy, I've suggested that a) the club spend a sensible and realistic amount of money on the players we needed to help keep us up, the financial bnefits make that worthwhile, and b) appoint a manager who can at last organise the basics of a defence.
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As sure as night follows day Risso will be the first to suggest sacking the next manager
Pardon me? The last three years have been nothing short of dire, and while the club keep saddling us with shit managers, what else do you expect? Did you want McLeish to stay? Are you happy with Lambert's performance?
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Of course he thought he could keep us up, he wouldn't be worth his salt if he didn't, however, sometimes these things just don't work.
So what are you saying exactly, that we may well go down, lose our Premier Status and a lot of TV money but hey, that's ok because we've got a long term plan?
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As sure as night follows day Risso will be the first to suggest sacking the next manager
Pardon me? The last three years have been nothing short of dire, and while the club keep saddling us with shit managers, what else do you expect? Did you want McLeish to stay? Are you happy with Lambert's performance?
I think McLeish deserved the sack for nearly taking us down and the car crash end to the season and Lambert will deserve the sack if/when he takes us down. You always appear very quick to get on managers' backs. Now given the disasters we've endured these last couple of years you may say this has been good predicting but if you keep on saying "they're shit, they're shit" then eventually you'll be proved right as, let's face it, we're not going to be winning the league any time soon. And don't pretend you'd have been happy with a solid 12th place finish this season now because I'm sure you'd have been calling for Lambert's head for us not being top half.
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Of course he thought he could keep us up, he wouldn't be worth his salt if he didn't, however, sometimes these things just don't work.
So what are you saying exactly, that we may well go down, lose our Premier Status and a lot of TV money but hey, that's ok because we've got a long term plan?
I don't think anyone's saying, "Hey, that's OK", but it's better to go down with a long term plan, than without... Whether the plan has any merit is another matter, of course.
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It is interesting, how in the space of roughly a month the support as gone from circa 90% to 45%. Granted it has to be one of the worst months in the club's history and then you throw in this embarrassment of a Transfer Window.
Warning: There may be some optimism in the following lines, those of you who have adverse reactions to such folly, avert your eyes.
But just over a month ago, most were in support of what he was trying to do. Even within in this month, there have been times when we have looked very good. The first half against West Brom stands out for me.
People are having a go at him because he took on the job under Randy's regime of cutbacks. I say good for him for taking the challenge on. That is the type of man we want at this point in time.
Now the above is not to say that he has got a lot of things wrong and as it looks we will go down. But, I think we have more of a chance sticking with Lambert, than getting rid. A lot of these younger players have had a lot of faith placed in them by Lambert and I think that loyalty will see them dig deeper and deeper. I also think their confidence will be shot even worse if the manager was gone. It would be akin to the club telling them they have failed.
It's a horrible, horrible situation that mostly has been Randy's making. Lambert has played his part so far this season ( I don't understand why he didn't get someone like Matt Upson on loan), but he still has another significant part to play. Our only hope is that he is supported and it was great to hear the players got an ovation for their efforts against Newcastle.
One other thing, I find the people commenting about his accent tedious. Or the fact he uses the phrase "we go again" quite often. Posters that do that display a certain ignorance, in that they can't level any intelligent arguments to the debate other than snide remarks. He speaks no different than Fergie and every manager has there little things they say repeatedly in interviews.
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Worst defence in living memory and he doesn't even bother to address it?
He should be sacked for that alone.
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In.
There's little point making a change now IMO. A new manager won't have anything else to utilise, the window is closed, there is not the option of pulling in the likes of Hutton and Warnock and pushing them into the first team.
Lambert used the £3m available. As I said, £2m on Sylla - who at least sounds like the type of midfielder we need - left a small amount to play with. The Dawkins move was very odd though, that's confused me no end. That should have been used to loan a CB for six months. Surely £1m could have been put to better use as a loan fee.
But it's Lambert's squad, he's now got to try and get something out of them for the next three months.
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His signings have not worked in the summer , yes some have potential but they are not keeping us in this league . some of them need taking out the firing line but he has not got the players which is fault . Benteke is one light who will be gone in the summer.
Then this January transfer window was a joke for us , we know what we need , even two experienced players might have saved us , and they were about .
Any one who can take a club like Aston Villa with the players he had and the money he spent deserves the sack .
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Some of the posts on this thread are shocking to put it mildly. He wasn't even my first or second choice but some of the treatment he gets on here is disgraceful. It's like some parallel universe exists where Lambert has taken a top 6 squad and turned them into a bunch of turds who don't try because his "motivational skills are useless" or his "tactics are shit". I saw no evidence of non-triers against newcastle. At the end of the day we are where we are because the squad isn't good enough, because the best players have gradually been ripped from it and when we have had substantial cash to spend we haven't spent it well enough. In Lambert's reign we've spent little when you consider the repair job that was needed after the previous season.
Is he not bothered about the defence? I very much doubt it. Could he have signed a better player than Clark or Baker with the transfer budget/wages available? Probably not. I very much doubt a manager who had the success he had a norwich can't see that individual errors at the back are costing us goals week after week. It's like logic has just disappeared in some cases. Some of the posts are more akin to children throwing their toys out of the pram because things haven't gone our way.
People need to have a good look at the events that have happened over the last few years and who has been sold and who replaced who, because the last person at fault here is the current manager. It just seems like anger and blind hatred have taken over some cases and has created a witch hunt mentality without any regard for where the real problem has arisen from.
We're all tactical geniuses with hindsight. There were plenty of different formations and personnel suggested before the game the other night yet afterwards everyone knew the right way didn't they? The fact is in football having quality players is far more important than good tactics. I know a lot of people didn't care for MON's tactics but we got results because we paid for quality players.
With the squad we have currently, I think we're one of the worst 3 squads in the division. If he keeps us up I think he'll have done a good job in his first season. If we go down, I can't say anything other than it was to be expected with the players we lost on top of finishing 16th and the amount of money he had available to replace this quality, not forgetting the extremely thin squad he had to work with.
Disagree with just about all of that.
Nobody was expecting top 6 this year -or for the next few years for that matter. Two dire managerial appointments prior to his arrival and a general downgarding of expectations had seen to that.
But McPish underacheived with the squad of players he inherited.
Lambert inherited that lot - and had £26 million to spend this season (possibly more) - and looks like he'll take us down. Takes a special kind of ineptitude to make McLeish look good.
That current squad of players should be roughly mid table/lower mid standard. Admittedly there are some of those players who don't look comfortable in the top flight (players Lambert signed, weidly enough) but taken as a whole, we have enough to be doing far, far better than he's managing to date.
We had a pretty obvious Archilles heel defensively -which he would have known about from last year had he or his scouts watched us. Yet he's done absolutely nothing to address that.
Even if he is at the start of a building process or any other bobbins excuses he wishes to put forward, Aston Villa should never lose out to a Fourth Division side over two games. If we had any remaining standards, he'd have been potted after that. It's not as if the results prior to the SF made it a dilemma.
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I stick by my out vote because...
He needs luck and momentum to turn on our side to get out of it.
When he's done well as a manager it has been on the back of having a confident team full of players wanting to be involved. If we can 2-3 wins in a row and get some confidence building we'll be fine, I firmly believe that. Unfortunately I don't believe he has any idea how to get the 2-3 wins we need in that scenario.
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So what if he signed up for it? Perhaps he signed up on the basis that he knew we may go down, that he was building for the future and that the club was rotten from top to bottom.
Of course he thought he could keep us up, he wouldn't be worth his salt if he didn't, however, sometimes these things just don't work.
I'm not happy about the situation we're in, far from it, but the way things look right now, I'm please there at least seems to be a long-term strategy forming.
I agree with Jockey.
A long term plan? Christ on a bike! We're heading towards the championship with the worst team in generations and you're happy with the long term plan!
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My concern is relegation would do more harm than the long term plan would do good.
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what depresses me is what a cracking strike force we have , probably the best I have seen at Villa for ages , we have been dying for a strike force like this for years but Lambert has no clue with the rest of the team including how to play Bent.
Two light weight inexperienced midfielders in every game and a defence who can not defend which he still has not sorted out yet .
Depressed .
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a huge number of people wanted no one but Lambert to replace TSM. He was appointed and backed with funds. He's proved total shite and might take us down. With no real backing from the owner in this transfer window he appears to be a man who has lost the owner's support but who won't be leaving until May at the earliest, possibly because there are performance related clauses in his contract which limits, if not eliminates, the need for yet more compo payments.It's unremittingly bleak at the moment to be a Villa fan, but in some respects, Lerner can't win. The fans wanted Lambert, they got him, he was backed with cash and he has so far, fucked up. Lerner's a good man who has done his best, but he does not understand the game he claims to love. We need leadership, vision, and a strategy for both the footballing and commercial sies of the business more than just money and blind faith. We need people who genuinely understand football and what it takes to run a club of Villa's size and pedigree in the dog eat dog world that is english football, EPL or Championship
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Of course he thought he could keep us up, he wouldn't be worth his salt if he didn't, however, sometimes these things just don't work.
So what are you saying exactly, that we may well go down, lose our Premier Status and a lot of TV money but hey, that's ok because we've got a long term plan?
I don't give a shit about the money and when football becomes all about money, it's pointless; do you really go to the match to see how high we'll finish because it's worth more?
I want us to play football, at a decent standard. With the way things have been for pretty much as long as I'd care to remember, we've not had a strategy, we've spent when we shouldn't' have done, haven't spent when we should but never really moved forward.
We tried under MON, but let's face it, he spent loads, saddled us with a huge wage bill and didn't achieve anything.
Sacking this manager, a few months in, is in my view short sighted. We need to sort out the wheat from the chaff in this squad, and he's doing it. Players that everyone thought were crap last season are, all of a sudden hailed as ones that could save us by some on here. I just don't get it. Warnock, Hutton and Collins were by all accounts not very good and/or caused problems, what's the point in replacing them with players who are of the same standard?
Shouldn't we try and find the decent young players that are out there, nurture and develop them and turn them into something better? Make a team rather than a bunch of money-grabbing, egocentric twats?
Of course we might get relegated (and it hasn't happened yet) and nobody wants that to happen but for the long-term health of the club we shouldn't deviate from the path we've chosen.
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I can't argue that Lambert has done a good job, and I'd have to concede he's struggling but again, don't see why sacking him now would help. He's clearly working under limitations, he knew this when he took the job, he took it anyway, when others wouldn't. I do think he can work with the level of player we're obviously restricted to signing. Sacking him would at least make some feel Villa have taken action, but that action is only positively effective if his replacement is good enough to turn things around. It might have made sense at Christmas, with £10-£20m to spend, but it doesn't now. The new guy would be coming in in February, working with a young squad, trying to get them together, to get them over the line.
Whatever happens it's then another new manager, wanting to sign his own players and chop out the ones he doesn't, and the whole cycle starts again. The club have embarked down a tough road and we've got to see it out.
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My concern is relegation would do more harm than the long term plan would do good.
It would and also I don't genuinely think there is a long term plan. They've talked about youth and all that but I think that's an attempt to placate the fans. The only plan seems to be cost cutting, and that will end nowhere but ruin.
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One of Lambert's fatal flaws is his belief that wingers don't work in the modern game. They do, but it's a slightly different role. Look at Barcelona, they play two wing forwards most of the time. It's crucial that your team is able to exploit width.
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Oh and also his inability throughout his career to organise a good defence. That may be his or his coaching staff's issue, but either way it's his responsibility.
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Oh and Drummond there isn't really a cohesive and sensible plan. It's all about cost cutting otherwise they wouldn't be trying to do it so fast. Everyone knows that there's no way you can change a whole squad overnight and hope for young players to bed in on their own.
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So what if he signed up for it? Perhaps he signed up on the basis that he knew we may go down, that he was building for the future and that the club was rotten from top to bottom.
Of course he thought he could keep us up, he wouldn't be worth his salt if he didn't, however, sometimes these things just don't work.
I'm not happy about the situation we're in, far from it, but the way things look right now, I'm please there at least seems to be a long-term strategy forming.
I agree with Jockey.
So what if he signed up for it? Perhaps he signed up on the basis that he knew we may go down, that he was building for the future and that the club was rotten from top to bottom.
Of course he thought he could keep us up, he wouldn't be worth his salt if he didn't, however, sometimes these things just don't work.
I'm not happy about the situation we're in, far from it, but the way things look right now, I'm please there at least seems to be a long-term strategy forming.
I agree with Jockey.
I would partially accept this view if I was persuaded that Lambert was doing the best he could with the resources he has avsailable. That is what a good manager should do. But in the last couple of months he has shown himself to be tactically incompetent, in my view, and to apparently lack any motivational skills. Even with the players we have a decent manager would have kept us out of the relegation zone.
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Surely we could have signed Sharner, Upson and Dawkins all on loan for what we have just saved on the wage bill of Warnock and Hutton?
Desperate.
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One of Lambert's fatal flaws is his belief that wingers don't work in the modern game. They do, but it's a slightly different role. Look at Barcelona, they play two wing forwards most of the time. It's crucial that your team is able to exploit width.
does he not watch Fergie's team.
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One of Lambert's fatal flaws is his belief that wingers don't work in the modern game. They do, but it's a slightly different role. Look at Barcelona, they play two wing forwards most of the time. It's crucial that your team is able to exploit width.
It's not necessarily about width, it's about not letting teams decide how they're going to defend. Our problem for a long time has been that we let a side line up a back 4 and a defensive midfielder and we don't make things uncomfortable for them.
Even under MON when we were doing well we couldn't break down teams that were determined to defend. You need to move defenders out of their comfort zone. Mess, Ronaldo, Zlatan, Rooney and most of the other top attacking players in the world are good because they make themselves hard to mark.
We're not doing that, we channel our play where teams want to defend against us. Then we make things worse by letting them play where they want to.
Width will help but more importantly we need to move off the ball better, too often our movement involves running away from the player on the ball, in a straight line.
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To some extent I'd agree with those who say sacking Lambert would be pointless. Who would you replace him with? The likes of Benitez were (allegedly) turning us down the season just after we'd finished sixth - what chance do we have of attracting a proven talent now?
In fact, you could argue - assuming we are relegated as I expect - that a man with Lamberts credentials is exactly what we will need to get promotion at the first attempt on a tight budget.
As I've said before, Lambert would've been my choice too last summer and I really, really want him to succeed. I just wish he'd swallow his pride, admit his mistakes and go to work on correcting all the shortcomings that are so obvious to thousands of us.
I think we've been extraordinarily patient up to now, but I see a breaking point fast approaching where the crowd will turn, a la McLeish/Bolton and there will be no excuses Mr Lambert, you will have brought it all on yourself.
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what's the point in replacing them with players who are of the same standard?
Shouldn't we try and find the decent young players that are out there, nurture and develop them and turn them into something better? Make a team rather than a bunch of money-grabbing, egocentric twats?
Of course we might get relegated (and it hasn't happened yet) and nobody wants that to happen but for the long-term health of the club we shouldn't deviate from the path we've chosen.
We've replaced bad players with younger players who at the moment, aren't even as good as those. And yes we should deviate from the plan, because when we go down, the decent players who have got a taste for the Premier League are going to want to play in it still, and all the teams who haven't been relegated are going to come and take them off us, while we play in front of 25K crowds.
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Of course he thought he could keep us up, he wouldn't be worth his salt if he didn't, however, sometimes these things just don't work.
So what are you saying exactly, that we may well go down, lose our Premier Status and a lot of TV money but hey, that's ok because we've got a long term plan?
I don't give a shit about the money and when football becomes all about money, it's pointless; do you really go to the match to see how high we'll finish because it's worth more?
It should not be about money, however at the moment it is!
The cost to us of going down this season is massive and will leave is in a very difficult position if we go down.
The teams that finish bottom next season will be getting £65 million and with that they will look to invest to get back up, we will have very little with which to invest and will just end up as another Wolves.
If thats you idea of a long term strategy then its shit!
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Drummond you're getting into an odd debate here. If our long term strategy doesn't include money and earning potential then Villa will cease to exist, it's as simple as that. It's not great but money and improvement based on that has be the centre piece of any plan.
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The more I watch Villa the more I think we're in the middle of a perfect storm with numerous factors contributing to our shortcomings.
1. Lambert. Tried to change to much too soon. Upset the senior pros (see Chelsea of last year). Only one year of premiership experience. Has a record of poor defensive organisation. Too stubborn to admit his errors.
2. Players. Too inexperienced at this level ( note - I did not say too young). Possible mutiny? Are Bent and Ireland being forced out along with Warnock and Hutton and are being disruptive influences? Results have led to confidence problems. Injuries to key players at key times.
3. Randy Lerner. Spending less money and time here than ever.
4. Fans. Week by week it seems the crowd sense impending doom and are more inclined to stay quiet/barrack than encourage the team. We're not stupid after all.
5. Almost forgot... The opposition, for the first time just about every club in relegation trouble seems to have money to burn and are strengthening at the exact time we can't (or won't).
It's a downward spiral alright. It would take something big to change our course now.
Changing too much too soon is probably one of the reasons we're struggling and I also think that he's not used to deal with the big players like Ireland, Bent, N'Zogbia etc and that's probably part of the reason why they haven't performed (except N'Zogbia lately who at least seems to be putting real effort).
All good and well, but most of those weren't performing before he even got here. I'm sick of hearing people making excuses for players like Ireland (the formation doesn't suit him, the manager doesn't know how to deal with him) when in reality he is a work-shy waster who doesn't give a toss about the club.
Maybe, but his handling of Bent has been very odd, to say the least.
I have to agree with Ireland, in the fall he looked like he actually cared but then he seems to have lost his interest...again, although he really put effort against Bradford in second leg.
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Well if you still wana see him go here is some twitter gossip for you
https://twitter.com/indykaila
Paul Lambert has been asked by the board to hand his resignation letter in. The board have a replacement already. Games being played #AVFC
I can't believe how the #AstonVilla board are not ready to pay out on Lambert sacking and are asking him to leave on his request. Shocking
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Well if you still wana see him go here is some twitter gossip for you
https://twitter.com/indykaila
Paul Lambert has been asked by the board to hand his resignation letter in. The board have a replacement already. Games being played #AVFC
I can't believe how the #AstonVilla board are not ready to pay out on Lambert sacking and are asking him to leave on his request. Shocking
"Not a journalist.Have you seen my grammar ? Working for well known sports broadcaster.Various contacts within the game.Love trading shares.Views are my own." I wouldn't put much trust on what he spouts.
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that guy on twitter must be bullshitting... right? seems to come out of nowhere and weird timing.
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Oh. I follow this guy on Twitter. He actually calls a lot of things correctly. We'll see.
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Who hands in their resignation letter nowadays? If the board want him gone then they would just fire him and pay him out. It's bollocks because he isn't resigning and I have no doubt the board don't have the finances or appetite to pay out yet another management team.
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Oh. I follow this guy on Twitter. He actually calls a lot of things correctly. We'll see.
Just looked at his past seems genuine 26000 followers - i hope its true for villas sake . Very sceptical though until we hear more.
Looking at his record seems he's rarely wrong .
If randys using the cash left to negotiate his departure i would be happy .
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"Would you like to resign Paul?"
"Er, that'll cost me millions of quid, so no".
End.
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Who hands in their resignation letter nowadays? If the board want him gone then they would just fire him and pay him out. It's bollocks because he isn't resigning and I have no doubt the board don't have the finances or appetite to pay out yet another management team.
It would be the old mutual consent bollocks - they can afford to pay him off .
Not that im saying i believe it - wishful thinking !
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The timing of something like this would be ridiculous... oh its the Villa!
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Replacement lined up you say , knowing our luck it would be steve kean ha!
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It's clearly absolute bollocks.
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It's clearly absolute bollocks.
I would agree sadly.
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Only Villa would manufacture getting rid of a manager the day after the transfer window closes.
If Lerner doesn't want him he should sack him instead of this 'asking him to resign' bullshit
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Lerner maybe thinks if he got a new man in he doesnt meed to give him any money now the deadline has passed - farcical- nothing surprises me anymore - highly unlikely to be true but if it was i would crack open the bubbly.
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...and since when has Lerner ever got his arse into gear in getting a manager quickly?
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I don't even know how I feel about Lambert anymore tbh. If by some miracle we stay up I'd like to give him another chance because I believe in what he's capable of and also have the opportunity to make some more signings of players where they wont need to cost too much because he has an eye for talent on a budget.
I'd like to think it can't get any worse but the last 2/3 weeks have proven it can. Not sure how I'd feel if Lambert was gone now because it'd be strange and its a risky time to do it in our precarious position, it would all depend on the replacement, then again who else in this position is going to make us better and get us out of this relegation mire?
I don't think we're as bad as some of us like to make out. What we are is a very poor defensive team and we struggle to win out games. If Lambert and the other coaches could start to make us defend much better especially from set pieces and we don't give games up from winning positions then we could be quite a good team. Those two things are what really hampering us and I don't understand why we haven't even addressed those issues to fixing them because they're happening all the time getting worse.
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I think we've been extraordinarily patient up to now, but I see a breaking point fast approaching where the crowd will turn, a la McLeish/Bolton and there will be no excuses Mr Lambert, you will have brought it all on yourself.
I don't see fans in the stadium going for Lambert in the way we went for McAwful. Firstly, even though we can look like naive children when defending - we can also play a bit - could never say that under McCrap. McShite was rightly condemned for playing anti-football - negative tactics dominated - two banks of five was not uncommon.
Second - they may be naive numpties - but they are trying. They may be running around like headless chickens at times - but at least they are running. Not even the most depressive Villa fan can say they don't try - because they do.
That second half against Newcastle I felt proud because they didn't listen to the moaners but came out and had a right go - this wasn't a bunch of millionaires like Mr Peter Odemwingie looking for the next paycheck - a lot of these lads grew up here.
The difference between last season and this is that we can actually play - doing it for 90 minutes on a consistent basis seems to be the issue.
So this poll can be re-posted every time we lose a game - but at least we are trying now - whereas under McDire - I got the feeling that football had been beaten out of them.
I'm a Villa fan - so I'm always optimistic.
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You could have saved yourself a couple of minutes and just typed "at least he isn't McLeish".
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I tend to leave the single line posts that are thin on content but thick on opinion to others.
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It's not necessarily about width, it's about not letting teams decide how they're going to defend. Our problem for a long time has been that we let a side line up a back 4 and a defensive midfielder and we don't make things uncomfortable for them.
Even under MON when we were doing well we couldn't break down teams that were determined to defend. You need to move defenders out of their comfort zone. Mess, Ronaldo, Zlatan, Rooney and most of the other top attacking players in the world are good because they make themselves hard to mark.
We're not doing that, we channel our play where teams want to defend against us. Then we make things worse by letting them play where they want to.
Width will help but more importantly we need to move off the ball better, too often our movement involves running away from the player on the ball, in a straight line.
This is true, and has been for years.
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I tend to leave the single line posts that are thin on content but high on opinion to others.
Except there's nothing but opinion in your posts. At least you've given the "hilarious" pictures a miss.
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Drummond you're getting into an odd debate here. If our long term strategy doesn't include money and earning potential then Villa will cease to exist, it's as simple as that. It's not great but money and improvement based on that has be the centre piece of any plan.
We would have had a hell of a lot more chance of ceasing to exist if we had carried on spending money we didn't have. If Randy has stopped bankrolling us then the current cost-cutting is the only way.
Personally I'd rather have a viable mid-table Championship club than the disaster QPR are going to be if their owners pull the plug.
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Same guy on twitter has now posted that we're looking to bring in commoli as DoF. I'd be happy with that, was given the shitty end of the stick at liverpool after KKKenny made a mess of things. If we want an Ajax model he's pretty much the perfect guy to oversee it, he's a big believer in statistical evidence being used to back up opinion.
For example it was his idea for them to sign suarez. The best thing I think he made his mistakes at Liverpool where he let the numbers have too much to do with things (Downing, for example, was statistically the best winger feasibly available before they signed him, but the reality and the stats didn't match up). He'd be very much a moneyball choice, with every player signed on their potential value, but I can live with that, the reality is that's the role we need to look to fill for a few years if we're not going to do a citeh and throw half a billion (and the rest) at it.
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Well if you still wana see him go here is some twitter gossip for you
https://twitter.com/indykaila
Paul Lambert has been asked by the board to hand his resignation letter in. The board have a replacement already. Games being played #AVFC
I can't believe how the #AstonVilla board are not ready to pay out on Lambert sacking and are asking him to leave on his request. Shocking
Please let this be true. Please let this be true.Please let this be true. Please let this be true. Please let this be true. Please let this be true.Please let this be true. Please let this be true.
Please let this be true. Please let this be true. Please let this be true. Please let this be true.
Please let this be true. Please let this be true.Please let this be true. Please let this be true.
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There must be a clause in Lambert's contract that allows for him being so shit that he can be sacked without compo. If there isn't then there should have been, given our previous experiences.
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There must be a clause in Lambert's contract that allows for him being so shit that he can be sacked without compo. If there isn't, then there should have been, given our previous experiences.
I would have thought there would be given the arrangement with TSM but you probably have to wait until the end of the season to activate it
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can we have the poll reset, I want to change my vote
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can we have the poll reset, I want to change my vote
You can just remove your vote and then re-vote
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@MatKendrick: In tomorrow's Brum Mail, Lambert confirms #avfc can no longer compete financially with Stoke and Newcastle, but I guess you knew that anyway
:o
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@MatKendrick: In tomorrow's Brum Mail, Lambert confirms #avfc can no longer compete financially with Stoke and Newcastle, but I guess you knew that anyway
:o
Lambert has been fairly consistant regarding having very little to spend. A few people (on forums) have claimed he had a fair bit of money unspent but I just do not believe that. If he was constantly lying about this, making Lerner look tight, I am sure Lerner would put a stop to it. It just seems far more plausable to me that Lerner, for whatever reason, does not want to spend. Even at the risk of relegation.
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I suppose its a step up from being told we cannot compete with Charlton.
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Basically means Lerner has told him he cant / wont put money into club..so best case we back to where we were under Doug ,worst case we end up in Championship..
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When Mellberg dropped in that header at the Emirates six and a half years ago, I would never in a million years thought we would be where we are now.
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After reading the last bit, I hope Teale knocks his fucking head off
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/everton-vs-aston-villa-preview-1569599
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“Is the financial reality we just can’t compete with the Stokes and Newcastles? Yeah, that’s too high for us.
GTFO
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After reading the last bit, I hope Teale knocks his fucking head off
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/everton-vs-aston-villa-preview-1569599
And as we all know, Savage is a total C*NT
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Its not Lambert's fault that Lerner won't back us anymore.
He is right, we cannot compete with wanky no mark clubs like Stoke.
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Its not Lambert's fault that Lerner won't back us anymore.
He is right, we cannot compete with wanky no mark clubs like Stoke.
Yet the small-time outfit down the road in Sandwell have managed it the past couple of seasons despite being amongst the lowest spenders. Lambert doth protest too much methinks.
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That Stoke and Newcastle have both been promoted in time Lerner has been here and now apparantly surpassed us is just further evidence of the monumental fuck up Lerner has made of things.
Its not as easier as him just selling up I know but until he goes he is going to contine to drag the club down with his complete lack of football knowledge.
As for Lambert those ex Villa people might not have been managers ,other than GT and BFR of course but that doesnt make thier points less valid.In general they are just backing up the fana concerns.
TBH Lambert is coming across like Kruelack telling the little people we dont know what we talking about.Its condercending and wrong ...if fans had been listened too we would be in better shape than we are now.
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only the fans were listened to. the majority wanted Lambert. They got him. He got money to buy and with one or two exceptions his buys have not paid off as yet.
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What an incredibly impossible job Lambert has. No wonder he has had moments of crazy managerial mishaps this season. The constraints he is working on are not his fault. He has done some daft things and at times looks a man defeated. It's no wonder though.
I don't think there is a manager out there who will keep us up so I am now thinking is Lambert the right man to keep us in Div 2 and help our club re-build all over again. That is the question we all need to think about.
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They werent listen to other Mcliesh the most glaring public case of ignorance.
Its behind scenes the questions on how we were spending, what was clubs long term plan.All brushed under the carpet
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“Is the financial reality we just can’t compete with the Stokes and Newcastles? Yeah, that’s too high for us.
GTFO
Stoke and newcastle have both been big spenders in the last few months though - we are not saying we can spend £20m plus - but spending £2m means we are not competing with the likes of reading or southampton!
He did spend over £20m in the summer and look where thats got us.
At villa hes spend far more than he ever did at norwich already so cut the whinging and take responsibility for the shit job that you are doing mr lambert!
The poor tactics, formations and selections and the fact that players are playing so poorly is lamberts fault and his alone!
I have contacted nursey and kendrick to implore them to ask him one question -
Why did you not spend the whole transfer budget available to you when its so obvious the club needs a defender ?
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When Mellberg dropped in that header at the Emirates six and a half years ago, I would never in a million years thought we would be where we are now.
It's a harsh reality. It's all been downhill since we only bought in Heskey during that transfer window a few years ago. That was the time when we should have pushed on.
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When Mellberg dropped in that header at the Emirates six and a half years ago, I would never in a million years thought we would be where we are now.
It's a harsh reality. It's all been downhill since we only bought in Heskey during that transfer window a few years ago. That was the time when we should have pushed on.
Even a couple of years before Heskey we had a good opportunity to push on in Jan but then just bizarrely signed Routledge on the last day and barely ever played him.
O Neill and/or Randy basically screwed up every january they had after their first together and we tailed off and ran our first 13-14 players into the ground. A late push, some inspiration and added impetus in any of our 6th place finishes and we may have finished higher. Really is a shame how the club's money was mismanaged. If we'd blown our budgets in those summer windows, then again, it goes back to O Neill's dire transfer policy.
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The decline of the club is so bad it almost looks like it has been done on purpose.
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“Is the financial reality we just can’t compete with the Stokes and Newcastles? Yeah, that’s too high for us.
GTFO
I think I'm going to go on the Villa Park tour and let off stink bombs in all the corporate areas - because thats all they talk about on the tour. If its so good why can't we compete with Stoke?!
- I'm not blaming Mumbles - I think this is his way of telling the fans the situation.
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I don't care if we can't compete financially with Stoke or Newcastle(which is a disgrace by the way) I don't want to fucking hear it.
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Sounds to me like he is undermining his boss.
I think there are some dangerous games going on a Villa Park, at all levels.
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Sounds to me like he is undermining his boss.
I think there are some dangerous games going on a Villa Park, at all levels.
He spend more last summer than in 3 years at norwich .
More to this than meets the eye , i agree.
Hows your lad doing now andy?
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Sounds to me like he is undermining his boss.
I think there are some dangerous games going on a Villa Park, at all levels.
He spend more last summer than in 3 years at norwich .
More to this than meets the eye , i agree.
Hows your lad doing now andy?
He's fine now mate, thanks for asking.
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Aston Villa’s efforts in the transfer window were so far under the radar they barely registered a blip.
QPR’s Harry Redknapp was able to spend £12million on defender Chris Samba and also brought in Jermaine Jenas and Andros Townsend.
Meanwhile, Lambo was trawling the depths of the French Second Division for unknown 22-year-old Clermont midfielder Yacouba Sylla.
And he also borrowed 25-year-old winger Simon Dawkins, who has not even made a Premier League appearance for Spurs.
That led to criticism from former players, including former winger Steve Froggatt who went on Twitter to rap: Villa transfer window beyond a p***-take.
But Lambo hit back: “It doesn’t bother me what ex-players think. They should know better. If they have a problem they should come and see me.
“The fans have been great and I do understand their frustrations. Ask me if I’d like to sign a Messi or a Xavi then, Jesus, yes I would. But you can only work with what you’ve got.”
The Villa boss admitted he had spent nowhere near the £1.7m quoted for Sylla’s transfer and confessed Stoke and Newcastle could outspend Villa.
He added: “I saw a figure of what Sylla was meant to have cost and it was wrong. The fee of £1.7m is wrong and Dawkins came in on loan. Randy Lerner has been great and I knew the remit. But we couldn’t afford anyone massive.
“Can we compete with Stoke and Newcastle? That’s too high for us.”
Lambo stressed he is not jealous of Redknapp’s multi-million spree in West London.
The Villa boss said: “I don’t get embroiled in what someone else can do.
“If Harry wants to do that and thinks it’s right for QPR he’s got to do what he thinks is best.
“We tried to do a few deals for a defender but the salaries were way too high.
“There has got to be some realism at the minute and the fans have it. I think they are with us because they can see what’s going on.” The Villa boss says he will have no hesitation hurling his new boys in at Everton today.
He said: “The two of them are ready to go now and I wouldn’t have any fear about throwing them in.
“Sylla is a strong lad who will add a bit of steel and some bite in the middle of the pitch. He’ll get stuck right in. You need players to do the dirty work.
“Dawkins will surprise people in the way he creates and makes things happen. He was incredible during his spell in America and has been in great form.”
Lambert knows few will give 19th-placed Villa a chance against in-form Everton, where David Moyes has been working miracles on a limited budget for a decade.
He said: “Davie has done a fabulous job there for the last 10 or 11 years. There are not many managers doing that.
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4774776/Paul-Lambert-Was-I-meant-to-sign-Messi-and-Xavi.
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So Lambert says
“There has got to be some realism at the minute and the fans have it. I think they are with us because they can see what’s going on.”
Do you all believe this to be true?
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Yes 'Davie' has done a great job, how about you do a good one.
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I don't care if we can't compete financially with Stoke or Newcastle(which is a disgrace by the way) I don't want to fucking hear it.
I don't get that, Paul. Why would you not want to know the truth?
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Sounds to me like he is undermining his boss.
I think there are some dangerous games going on a Villa Park, at all levels.
aye, especially if the rumours are true that the club were as flabbergasted by his signings as we were.
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I'm just not sure what good it does us to say that, it may be true but it's just not great to hear.
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I'm grateful that the one person not moaning about our financial situation is the manager.
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how many big earners say 50k a week and above have we got on the books
Given
Dunne
Ireland
Bent
N'zog
not to mention the ones we have managed to move on or not renewed over the last 18 months,
and thats your problem, high earners either not playing or not playing well enough to justify the high salary, Randy has just looked at it and said, no i'm not doing that again, at least untill its under control
i agree i think there could have been a modest spend in the window for a defender, i cant explain that,
but the idea that you can spend you way out of trouble is flawed, its the same spending mentality thats got us here in the first place
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Sounds to me like he is undermining his boss.
I think there are some dangerous games going on a Villa Park, at all levels.
aye, especially if the rumours are true that the club were as flabbergasted by his signings as we were.
Spot on gnasher.
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We are not saying spend £20m plus to compete with newcastle and stoke - but at least try to compete with wigan and reading for fucks sake- the lack of a defender in this window was ridiculous.
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how many big earners say 50k a week and above have we got on the books
Given
Dunne
Ireland
Bent
N'zog
not to mention the ones we have managed to move on or not renewed over the last 18 months,
and thats your problem, high earners either not playing or not playing well enough to justify the high salary, Randy has just looked at it and said, no i'm not doing that again, at least untill its under control
i agree i think there could have been a modest spend in the window for a defender, i cant explain that,
but the idea that you can spend you way out of trouble is flawed, its the same spending mentality thats got us here in the first place
The definition of insanity is to keep repeating your mistakes.
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how many big earners say 50k a week and above have we got on the books
Given
Dunne
Ireland
Bent
N'zog
not to mention the ones we have managed to move on or not renewed over the last 18 months,
and thats your problem, high earners either not playing or not playing well enough to justify the high salary, Randy has just looked at it and said, no i'm not doing that again, at least untill its under control
i agree i think there could have been a modest spend in the window for a defender, i cant explain that,
but the idea that you can spend you way out of trouble is flawed, its the same spending mentality thats got us here in the first place
I understand the point you are making John, but disagree about the assertion that you can't spend your way of trouble. The spine of our team (central defence and central midfield) has been weak for a number of seasons now and I have no doubt that had some major investment gone into bringing in quality players in those areas then we would probably not be in the position we are in now. Spend money on quality players in those areas and then build a team around them.
I do agree that buying players for the sake of it and paying big money for mediocre players is not the way to go though.
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That pretty much sums it up for me "some dangerous games being played at Villa Park".
I keep coming back to the gut feeling that stupid things are being done on purpose.
If that is true it can only be motivated by one of three things - malice, crass stupidity verging on mental aberration or corruption.
Which is it? Take your pick. To help you decide here are one or two things which I think stink to high heaven.
The creation of a situation of needless confrontation and mutual hostility with players like Bent, Hutton, Warnock, Dunne, Collins and Given.
The complete absence of any explanation of what has happened and what is happening about Jean II Makoun's work permit. If his ineligibility to turn out for us is due to lack of administrative foresight or planning, the person who let it happen should be sacked.
The complete absence of any explanation of what exactly the circumstances were of Richard Dunne returning from the Euros so seriously injured that we have lost him for a whole season. Are there grounds for an insurance claim? If not why not?
The chasing of the game against Chelsea, going gung-ho at four nil down and not limiting the damage of a game which will go down in history as the one which made all our four wheels fall off.
Letting the Chelsea massacre innocents take the field against Spurs on Boxing Day clearly shell shocked with no known or visible attempt made to help a young and inexperienced squad come to terms with the biggest defeat of our 138 year history.
The absolutely glaring incompetence of our coaching staff to staunch the flow of goals against us from corners and set pieces. It has nothing at all to do with football ability. It is like teaching soldiers to march or dolphins to juggle beach balls. You do it over and over and over until you get it right.
Constantly making calamitous substitutions always at the 70 minute mark. If Ireland starts and is clearly away with the fairies, don't leave him on for seventy minutes. Likewise if Bannan is being swatted away by their midfield like an irksome gnat, don't leave it until the 70th minute put a sub on with instructions to bite back. It is all so elementary.
In the transfer window which could have and should have saved our Premiership status, one of the only two players we brought in was a 25 year old Tottenham reject who plays in a position where we have adequate (superior quality) cover, ON LOAN so that we know before the player ever kicks a ball he will either be a Jenas and never strike a blow in anger for us or a Kyle Naughton and be straight back to Tottenham if he shows any kind of ability in a Villa shirt.
I could go on and I am sure there are those of you with a better memory than mine who can add to the list of inexplicable bollocks we have dropped this season alone.
You decide. Is it malice, is it crass stupidity of the worst kind or is it George Graham style brown paper bags?
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I'm grateful that the one person not moaning about our financial situation is the manager.
Well yes. We have this v strange situation where the manager has repeatedly said he has limited funds, missed out on plyrs because of this and yet there are theories that he passed up a load of cash. Just don't see it. Why would he do that if money was available?
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We are not saying spend £20m plus to compete with newcastle and stoke - but at least try to compete with wigan and reading for fucks sake- the lack of a defender in this window was ridiculous.
we spent 20 mill plus in the last window, i think you will find over the last few years we have been one of the top spnders in the whole of the league, look where its got us, in the shit
the likes of Wigan and Reading who you are using as examples of higher spenders than ourselves have never spent 20 mill on a player, never,
i havent done it but i would sugest that our spending over the last 3 years would dwarf there two clubs put together,
it hasnt worked for us, so Randy in his wisdom or otherwise wants to go a different way
i would have loved to see a defender coming in even on the cheap, but it still wouldnt guarantee anything,
QPR , Wigan, Reading and Newcastle will not all stay up, even after spending more than us
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We are not saying spend £20m plus to compete with newcastle and stoke - but at least try to compete with wigan and reading for fucks sake- the lack of a defender in this window was ridiculous.
“We tried to do a few deals for a defender but the salaries were way too high."
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We are not saying spend £20m plus to compete with newcastle and stoke - but at least try to compete with wigan and reading for fucks sake- the lack of a defender in this window was ridiculous.
“We tried to do a few deals for a defender but the salaries were way too high."
Warnock has gone thats his salary off the books, the extra few grand in salary will be peanuts in comparison with the tens of millions lost in tv rights if relegated.
Dawkins was not a priority, a defender was .
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A loan? A defender from the Championship Scott Dann maybe? You just get the impression they barely even tried to plug the gaps Zero urgency
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We are not saying spend £20m plus to compete with newcastle and stoke - but at least try to compete with wigan and reading for fucks sake- the lack of a defender in this window was ridiculous.
we spent 20 mill plus in the last window, i think you will find over the last few years we have been one of the top spnders in the whole of the league, look where its got us, in the shit
the likes of Wigan and Reading who you are using as examples of higher spenders than ourselves have never spent 20 mill on a player, never,
i havent done it but i would sugest that our spending over the last 3 years would dwarf there two clubs put together,
it hasnt worked for us, so Randy in his wisdom or otherwise wants to go a different way
i would have loved to see a defender coming in even on the cheap, but it still wouldnt guarantee anything,
QPR , Wigan, Reading and Newcastle will not all stay up, even after spending more than us
It hasn't worked out because up until this season, we only really did business in the ridiculously over priced British market. The apparent failure to set up anything approaching a decent foreign scouting network (add that to the catalogue of thing Lerner and Faulkner have failed to deliver) has meant we have been missing out for a number of years on quality foreign imports that could have been purchased for relatively cheap amounts .
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A loan? A defender from the Championship Scott Dann maybe? You just get the impression they barely even tried to plug the gaps Zero urgency
Yep, so we can miss out on the sissokos but we cant afford to loan scott dann or matt upson ?
We know lescotts wages are not viable but in a month i do not believe he could not find any defender to improve the squad .
The budget he had was not spent and i want to know why not - i have implored kendrick and nursey to ask the question .
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Our transfer business for me is a secondary issue with Lambert's reign so far. What's far more frightening is how poorly prepared and organised our team always seems to be. Some of the performances have been beyond shambolic. I mean the defeat to Bradford made our performance against Doncaster in O Leary's era look world class.
I still think he needs to go. We're too far in the shit at the moment.
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Our transfer business for me is a secondary issue with Lambert's reign so far. What's far more frightening is how poorly prepared and organised our team always seems to be. Some of the performances have been beyond shambolic. I mean the defeat to Bradford made our performance against Doncaster in O Leary's era look world class.
I still think he needs to go. We're too far in the shit at the moment.
No question he needs to go asap.
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Our transfer business for me is a secondary issue with Lambert's reign so far. What's far more frightening is how poorly prepared and organised our team always seems to be. Some of the performances have been beyond shambolic. I mean the defeat to Bradford made our performance against Doncaster in O Leary's era look world class.
I still think he needs to go. We're too far in the shit at the moment.
I am with you now. I think he is playing games too, and I am sure there was more to spend than he is claiming. I think he is arse covering for some reason.
He is out of his depth, and I am starting to think it is all a nasty conspiracy between him and his mentor.
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What was the budget?
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His departure is the only thing which could inject enough of a shock to make us scrape out of trouble. For what it is worth I think Lambert's mind set about Villa is the same as Ireland's or Bent's or Given's. He is going through the motions. He has has copped the nark to Lerner and Faulkner and if we get relegated it is their fault. As I commented a month ago, his career path is going along precisely the same route as McLeish's. He is looking after his own interests.
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I just don't buy all these conspiracy theories. People are coming up with ideas and then trying to find ways to fit them to the limited facts available. So "We can't afford player X" becomes "I can afford player X, but don't want to buy him because I want us to get relegated and blame it on somebody else".
It just doesn't stack up.
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I can't believe Lambert is just going through the motions. A high profile failure can turn the hot new thing in management into yesterday's man very quickly. It can be a long way back to the top if you ever even make it back. Unfortunately I think he appears to be going through the motions because he just doesn't know how to put things right. If he fails with Villa it will be a TSM situation where he would have to drop down and take a club up and succeed with them. Big clubs would always be put off by his Villa record.
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I don't really care why we didn't strengthen this January, the fact is we didn't, and whether that's down to the inadequacies of either Lerner or Lambert, who knows? I suspect it's a combination of the two to be honest.
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Why is it so hard for people to believe that we haven't got any money? Because Eastie and Greg say we did have?
Why didn't we sign Upson on loan? I imagine his wages were pretty high to get him to move to Stoke.
Why not Scott Dann? Maybe he didn't want to come here? or his club didn't want him to leave?
Is it really easier to believe that someones taking bribes to send us down or that Randy is deliberately trying to miss out on next years TV money so that the club can be run more cheaply?
Brian, in the middle of your post you said "The chasing of the game against Chelsea, going gung-ho at four nil down and not limiting the damage of a game which will go down in history as the one which made all our four wheels fall off."
This I'd agree with, we'd be in a far better situation now if we'd lost that game 5-0 rather than 8-0.
The next bit i'm not so sure about...
"Letting the Chelsea massacre innocents take the field against Spurs on Boxing Day clearly shell shocked with no known or visible attempt made to help a young and inexperienced squad come to terms with the biggest defeat of our 138 year history."
We don't know what efforts were made in the 2 days between those games, it's pure speculation, but we didn't have much choice regarding the team we put out. There wasn't long to work with the players though and whatever we did the players would be low on confidence and laying a team on good form. The game before we'd had a great away win at Liverpool playing the same players. We were battered in the first half against Spurs and barely created anything, and were lucky to come in at 0-0. If I remember correctly, it was when we put Albrighton on for Westwood in the second half that things really went wrong. We dramatically improved, started to create opportunities, and Defoe scored on the break for their first.
In retrospect Lamberts mistake was the same as the Chelsea game, not keeping the game tight enough, and hoping we could grind out a win (or even a lower scoring defeat). It might have been the wrong decision but it wasn't one so crazy that I suspect there is a secret conspiracy at work. Last year McLeish was rightly castigated for trying to play for draws too often, this year Lambert has gone too far the other way.
When it comes to spending I'm as disappointed as anyone that we didn't sign a big dominant centre back in the January window. Put simply if you put Samba in our side I would be confident that we could stay up. But I wouldn't want us to sign him if it meant that we put ourselves in the precarious situation that QPR are now in. If they are relegated, as still seems likely, they could be seriously fucked. Not just relegated to the Championship screwed but plummeting through the leagues screwed.
I know that people aren't asking for us to spend Samba type money but it seems obvious to me that we are looking at what would happen to us if we were to go down and, aware that we wouldn't be able to shift players like Given and Ireland, every penny has to be spent carefully. That means that we have missed out on the defenders we needed because, for the same reasons no one would take Ireland from us, we can't afford to take other peoples unwanted players from them.
Lambert is far from blameless, and I can understand peoples frustrations with him and them wanting him out, but the idea that he's sitting with his arms folded while Lerner is chucking money at him just seems absurd. People aren't thinking straight. He's not going to be sacked now, however much he might deserve it. We know that the players that we have are the ones who will have to keep us up, or will be responsible for our relegation. But we are only in the bottom three thanks to our woeful goal difference. Now that we have a bit more time between games we might have a chance for the players to pull themselves together.
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Why is it so hard for people to believe that we haven't got any money? Because Eastie and Greg say we did have?
Because our owner, who is already a billionaire recently saw his own personal fortune increase by another 300m.
HE, could put in whatever he likes from that and it'd be like me giving my nephew 50p for a pack of Match Attax. It tells me what kind of man/owner he is when he couldn't even spare say 10m of that VAST wealth to get HIS club a couple of much needed recruits to possibly save us
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we spent 20 mill plus in the last window, i think you will find over the last few years we have been one of the top spnders in the whole of the league, look where its got us, in the shit
I'm no Vorderman, but i think you'll actually find our net spend in the last 3 seasons is less than 10m. Do the maths
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Why is it so hard for people to believe that we haven't got any money? Because Eastie and Greg say we did have?
Because our owner, who is already a billionaire recently saw his own personal fortune increase by another 300m.
HE, could put in whatever he likes from that and it'd be like me giving my nephew 50p for a pack of Match Attax. It tells me what kind of man/owner he is when he couldn't even spare say 10m of that VAST wealth to get HIS club a couple of much needed recruits to possibly save us
Ok, but if he doesn't want to spend it on Villa, i'm afraid Villa haven't got any money.
Whether he should give us the money is a different matter. As a Villa fan i feel he should, looking at other clubs who are in our financial/footballing situation i'm not so sure.
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Django, I have very good connections at Norwich and I have very strong reasons which I will not disclose to believe what I said about not enough effort or indeed any effort being made on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day to address the damage done by the Chelsea defeat on our young players is true.
As for things stacking up, my other love is horse racing. In that sport disciplinary proceedings, for example those instigated against Michael Chopra and to which he pleaded guilty, are triggered by what is called "irregular patterns of activity".
I am not suggesting or inferring any wrongdoing by anybody all I am saying is that the sort of inexplicable decisions made by Villa of late, if they were made by, say, a racehorse owner or trainer, they would fall squarely into the category of an irregular pattern of activity.
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I'm pretty sick of these excuses from Lambert. It's almost the same as when DOL went on about 'The Boltons and The Birminghams' all those years ago. The fact is that Lambert couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and that's why we know lie where we are. The teams around us haven't exactly got fantastic squads have they? The difference is organisation, bottle and determination*
What sort of message are you sending your squad, when all you do is bemoan your lack of spending clout? Pathetic. Lambert has the demenour of a man that wants out, but waiting to be shoved out the door.
*QPR and Newcastle have gambled massively, however.
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Why is it so hard for people to believe that we haven't got any money? Because Eastie and Greg say we did have?
Because our owner, who is already a billionaire recently saw his own personal fortune increase by another 300m.
HE, could put in whatever he likes from that and it'd be like me giving my nephew 50p for a pack of Match Attax. It tells me what kind of man/owner he is when he couldn't even spare say 10m of that VAST wealth to get HIS club a couple of much needed recruits to possibly save us
Ok, but if he doesn't want to spend it on Villa, i'm afraid Villa haven't got any money.
Whether he should give us the money is a different matter. As a Villa fan i feel he should, looking at other clubs who are in our financial/footballing situation i'm not so sure.
The words said to me last night from someone who would definately know were the board were 'exasperated and bewildered' at lamberts signings and the fact he did not spend the budget .
This has been passed to kendrick and nursey to ask lambert the question why?
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Fair enough Brian, but I don't think the decisions on Lamberts part have been 'inexplicable', misjudged and wrong at times definitely.
The off the pitch stuff from Randy, the speed at which the tap has been switched off, the out of control spending in the gamble for the top 4 is a bit more mystifying. But again I don't think most people (particularly ones without much knowledge of football) would have predicted the almost total lack of return we would get on the spending he did make.
I think where we are is down to a sustained combination of incompetence and reasonable judgements that have spectacularly failed to come good.
Unless I saw evidence of suspicious betting patterns etc I just can't imagine it being anything along those lines, and I'm a cynic by nature.
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i posted a few weeks ago that the guy i know who knows PK told me no money in January unless the big wage hogs left and to a lare extent that has proved true.Why Randy is refusing/reluctant to pump significant further funds ino the club is anyone's guess. only he and his monkey know for sure. My guess is that he's hoping against hope we stay up and will make a concerted effort to sell Villa up in the summer preferably as an EPL club
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Django, I have very good connections at Norwich and I have very strong reasons which I will not disclose to believe what I said about not enough effort or indeed any effort being made on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day to address the damage done by the Chelsea defeat on our young players is true.
As for things stacking up, my other love is horse racing. In that sport disciplinary proceedings, for example those instigated against Michael Chopra and to which he pleaded guilty, are triggered by what is called "irregular patterns of activity".
I am not suggesting or inferring any wrongdoing by anybody all I am saying is that the sort of inexplicable decisions made by Villa of late, if they were made by, say, a racehorse owner or trainer, they would fall squarely into the category of an irregular pattern of activity.
Its my understanding that while the players trained on christmas morning lambert gave himself the day off with his family.
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earlier post should obviously have read PF
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Why is it so hard for people to believe that we haven't got any money? Because Eastie and Greg say we did have?
Because our owner, who is already a billionaire recently saw his own personal fortune increase by another 300m.
HE, could put in whatever he likes from that and it'd be like me giving my nephew 50p for a pack of Match Attax. It tells me what kind of man/owner he is when he couldn't even spare say 10m of that VAST wealth to get HIS club a couple of much needed recruits to possibly save us
Ok, but if he doesn't want to spend it on Villa, i'm afraid Villa haven't got any money.
Whether he should give us the money is a different matter. As a Villa fan i feel he should, looking at other clubs who are in our financial/footballing situation i'm not so sure.
The words said to me last night from someone who would definately know were the board were 'exasperated and bewildered' at lamberts signings and the fact he did not spend the budget .
This has been passed to kendrick and nursey to ask lambert the question why?
Well I suppose you are privy to information that I'm not, so we're judging things differently based on that. I suppose under O'Leary we saw that type of brinkmanship and if it is the case that Lambert is running the team now based on protecting his reputation after he leaves then we are doomed.
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Oddly, while I think we need a change of boss to keep us up, if and when we do go down I'd like to see if Lambert could build a decent team to get us out of the Championship.
But if he really hasn't spent the money available then serious questions do need to be asked, although I suspect we'll never know the full story.
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We need to realise there is a difference between Lerner's wealth and what is available for Villa. Not the same thing...
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We need to realise there is a difference between Lerner's wealth and what is available for Villa. Not the same thing...
Not really no. It's his money, and this is his club. He can spend it or not spend it. There's nothing stopping him if that's what you're hinting at ?
It's his personal choice
I invest my money in my business.
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earlier post should obviously have read PF
Glad you posted that. I've been scratching my head but didn't want to ask for fear of exposing my lack of knowledge about the club.
I watched the film Moneyball last night, about a coach who refuses to change his methods despite criticism from all angles. P'raps Lambert is our Brad Pitt and everything is gonna be ok.
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We need to realise there is a difference between Lerner's wealth and what is available for Villa. Not the same thing...
Not really no. It's his money, and this is his club. He can spend it or not spend it. There's nothing stopping him if that's what you're hinting at ?
It's his personal choice
I invest my money in my business.
Richard Branson could afford to buy all the Virgin Trains passengers a coffee and a doughnut, it's his choice, and he choses to run it like a business, not as a way of making other people happy. You invest money in your business but presumably you are getting something back and weighing up what it's worth putting in. I imagine you are not spending your money on liabilities that could drive you out of business, and wouldn't do so, however much your customers would prefer you to.
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We need to realise there is a difference between Lerner's wealth and what is available for Villa. Not the same thing...
Not really no. It's his money, and this is his club. He can spend it or not spend it. There's nothing stopping him if that's what you're hinting at ?
It's his personal choice
I invest my money in my business.
Richard Branson could afford to buy all the Virgin Trains passengers a coffee and a doughnut, it's his choice, and he choses to run it like a business, not as a way of making other people happy. You invest money in your business but presumably you are getting something back and weighing up what it's worth putting in. I imagine you are not spending your money on liabilities that could drive you out of business, and wouldn't do so, however much your customers would prefer you to.
And there is the unpalatable truth, financially he's taken the view that we need to stand on our own two feet.
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Your observations eastie are the core of the lost Christmas Day phenomenon.
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Another surrender. Get him out.
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What the hell is he playing up not even signing one defender this window?
Criminal that now our attacking players have turned up this season they're having to score 2s and 3s just to get a point out of the game given how useless our defence is.
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It is absolutely criminal that again we've lost points to set piece defending, absolutely criminal. Ultimately it will send us down. We've scored 2 and 3 in our last two away games and not won either.
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Don't forget the 2-2 at Swansea aswell.
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Lambert and Lerner you realise now that signing an experienced defender would probably have gained us two points today, and a great win. Well done, idiots.
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Since he ignored the defence in Jan. The only training this side should do is defensive positioning/tracking and just defending set pieces.
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Perhaps he should phone Phil Parkinson for some advice.
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Since he ignored the defence in Jan. The only training this side should do is defensive positioning/tracking and just defending set pieces.
It seems to run a bit deeper, we all said we'd be a lot sturdier from set pieces with Ron back but he's just as fallible as the rest, what the fuck do they do in training?
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Concede from corners.
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What happened to the side that beat Swansea at home 2-0?
We were bloody good that day.
Why can't we perform like that again?
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What happened to the side that beat Swansea at home 2-0?
We were bloody good that day.
Why can't we perform like that again?
We can and do, but only for a half at a time.
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What happened to the side that beat Swansea at home 2-0?
We were bloody good that day.
Why can't we perform like that again?
We can and do, but only for a half at a time.
So is it coaching?
To play high tempo, good football even for a half takes some skill and ability.
To not maintain it suggests either tactical naivety or a 'we've done enough now' attitude.
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No we dont, the only time this season we have pressed the ball with such intensity was Swansea at home.
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No we dont, the only time this season we have pressed the ball with such intensity was Swansea at home.
We played them at their own game and won, we passed them to death that day.
Our possession was superb.
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No we dont, the only time this season we have pressed the ball with such intensity was Swansea at home.
We played them at their own game and won, we passed them to death that day.
Our possession was superb.
We did it to the stripeys in the first half of the home game, then died on our arse after half time.
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Sorry my post was in reply to Lees
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No we dont, the only time this season we have pressed the ball with such intensity was Swansea at home.
We played them at their own game and won, we passed them to death that day.
Our possession was superb.
We did it to the stripeys in the first half of the home game, then died on our arse after half time.
Exacttly.
So why?
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No we dont, the only time this season we have pressed the ball with such intensity was Swansea at home.
We played them at their own game and won, we passed them to death that day.
Our possession was superb.
We did it to the stripeys in the first half of the home game, then died on our arse after half time.
Exacttly.
So why?
I put it down to early season fatigue at the time, and thought we'd get better as the season went on.
Fuck knows is the honest answer.
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So, according to Lambert's post match interview, suggestions that we should have signed some experienced players were "nonsense". What an utter cock.
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Paul Lambert should say but to be honest he should have a good look at his backroom staff because they seem to know nothing, alex mcleish will be getting the sack from forest soon why dont lambert give him a job as our defensive coach, make a good team
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So, according to Lambert's post match interview, suggestions that we should have signed some experienced players were "nonsense". What an utter cock.
Even if it is complete BS, its a lot better than saying to all in sundry in the media that his
players aren't good enough. Their confidence is slim to non existent, so he's going to talk
them up and be bullish.
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
I wouldnt have him back either as mcleish was not the answer , neither is lambert though.
We are worse than last season as the league table, results, goal difference and points total will testify.
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
We are worse than that as the league table, results, goal difference and points total will testify.
Wolves Bolton and Blackburn being in the premiership last season may have something to do with that.
I think this years promoted teams Southampton Reading West Ham are all better than those three.
Also our first two home games last season were Blackburn, and Wigan before they sorted themselves out.
That's six points straight away.
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
I wouldnt have him back either.
We are worse than that as the league table, results, goal difference and points total will testify.
Bit difficult to understand that, Eastie.
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So, according to Lambert's post match interview, suggestions that we should have signed some experienced players were "nonsense". What an utter cock.
You're right, he should have said 'of course, the ones I did sign are shit as is the rest of the squad, we're a bunch of muppets. Our squad isn't balanced and I've no faith in my squad, I signed up as manager and now I don't like the strategy I agreed to either'
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So, according to Lambert's post match interview, suggestions that we should have signed some experienced players were "nonsense". What an utter cock.
You're right, he should have said 'of course, the ones I did sign are shit as is the rest of the squad, we're a bunch of muppets. Our squad isn't balanced and I've no faith in my squad, I signed up as manager and now I don't like the strategy I agreed to either'
Of course, he has to choose his words with care, but just a little bit of contrition and some acknowledgement of the shit we're in might make us feel just a tiny bit better. Arrogance from your manager when in you are in the trouble we are in, is not an attractive trait.
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I see there is much speculation and even a touch of ITK regarding Lambert and the transfer window. Express and Star carrying an interesting IV with Lambert.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/aston-villa-fc/2013/02/02/paul-lambert-hits-out-at-critics-of-aston-villa-signings/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/aston-villa-fc/2013/02/02/paul-lambert-hits-out-at-critics-of-aston-villa-signings/)
Villa's issue is all about wages.
250k a week on players who don't play - and won't move. Bent. Ireland. Given. Dunne.
We can only progress when we shift the deadwood - if anyone would want them. The best signing for Villa in the summer would be Mark Hughes getting a job at the latest 'loadsamoney' project.
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So, according to Lambert's post match interview, suggestions that we should have signed some experienced players were "nonsense". What an utter cock.
You're right, he should have said 'of course, the ones I did sign are shit as is the rest of the squad, we're a bunch of muppets. Our squad isn't balanced and I've no faith in my squad, I signed up as manager and now I don't like the strategy I agreed to either'
So, just as you think there's no middle ground between signing crap kids from lower leagues and spending enormous amounts like QPR did on Samba, so you now also think that a manager can either took absolute bollocks like Lambert just has, or be stupidly honest. Right. Perhaps you could explain how signing an experienced player would be ridiculous, seeing as the match yesterday was another perfect example of why we needed that experience.
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Hang on. You stated one extreme, I suggested the other and you blame me for not taking the middle ground? Pots and kettles.
I'm an optimist and positive person by nature, however, I'm happy to acknowledge that there are a number of problems at the club. You, however, haven't posted anything positive and continually slate everything about the club. Don you ever see the middle ground? (I won't bother asking about any positives)
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Hang on. You stated one extreme, I suggested the other and you blame me for not taking the middle ground? Pots and kettles.
I'm an optimist and positive person by nature, however, I'm happy to acknowledge that there are a number of problems at the club. You, however, haven't posted anything positive and continually slate everything about the club. Don you ever see the middle ground? (I won't bother asking about any positives)
We have a great forward line in Benteke and Weimann, Gabby is back to something approaching what we know he is capable of, and N'Zogbia looks interested for once. There, some positives. However, our defence and midfield are criminally bad, and our manager worse than useless. The fact that he had the whole of January to sort out one central defender but didn't speaks huge volumes about his ability. And please note, that didn't need to be Samba on £125K a week, or Rio Ferdinand, or the defensive equivalent of Stephen Ireland. Just somebody better than Clark, which gives you an awful lot of players to choose from. And Lambert having a go at people for daring to suggest that we needed to get some experience in is beyond the pale.
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
I wouldnt have him back either as mcleish was not the answer , neither is lambert though.
We are worse than last season as the league table, results, goal difference and points total will testify.
Might have something to do with the fact we lost our best midfielder and several other proven premier league players.
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
I wouldnt have him back either as mcleish was not the answer , neither is lambert though.
We are worse than last season as the league table, results, goal difference and points total will testify.
Might have something to do with the fact we lost our best midfielder and several other proven premier league players.
Petrov missed a fair chunk of last season as well- several other proven players like who?
Collins was sold by lambert, hutton and warnock excluded by lambert - which several proven premiership players did we lose in the summer?
Last season and this we had big injury problems, but the formations, poor tactics and poor team selections are lamberts fault as are the training methods which see us so woeful on basic defending- stop making excuses for him .
He spent more in 2 months here than he did in 3 years at norwich , he is well paid and its time he did his job properly rather than bleat to the press and hide behind excuse after excuse.
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Hang on. You stated one extreme, I suggested the other and you blame me for not taking the middle ground? Pots and kettles.
I'm an optimist and positive person by nature, however, I'm happy to acknowledge that there are a number of problems at the club. You, however, haven't posted anything positive and continually slate everything about the club. Don you ever see the middle ground? (I won't bother asking about any positives)
We have a great forward line in Benteke and Weimann, Gabby is back to something approaching what we know he is capable of, and N'Zogbia looks interested for once. There, some positives. However, our defence and midfield are criminally bad, and our manager worse than useless. The fact that he had the whole of January to sort out one central defender but didn't speaks huge volumes about his ability. And please note, that didn't need to be Samba on £125K a week, or Rio Ferdinand, or the defensive equivalent of Stephen Ireland. Just somebody better than Clark, which gives you an awful lot of players to choose from. And Lambert having a go at people for daring to suggest that we needed to get some experience in is beyond the pale.
It's as clear as day we could do with someone more experienced than Clark and also in other areas, but if Lambert came out and said that now it would be a right kick in the knackers to the current squad and would be the equivalent of saying they're not good enough. I've no doubt you would have slagged him off whatever he said though.
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
I wouldnt have him back either as mcleish was not the answer , neither is lambert though.
We are worse than last season as the league table, results, goal difference and points total will testify.
Might have something to do with the fact we lost our best midfielder and several other proven premier league players.
And replaced with.... Lambert spent the money and made his choices.
And as Eastie says its Lambert that got rid of Hutton, Collins and excluded Warnock
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Hang on. You stated one extreme, I suggested the other and you blame me for not taking the middle ground? Pots and kettles.
I'm an optimist and positive person by nature, however, I'm happy to acknowledge that there are a number of problems at the club. You, however, haven't posted anything positive and continually slate everything about the club. Don you ever see the middle ground? (I won't bother asking about any positives)
We have a great forward line in Benteke and Weimann, Gabby is back to something approaching what we know he is capable of, and N'Zogbia looks interested for once. There, some positives. However, our defence and midfield are criminally bad, and our manager worse than useless. The fact that he had the whole of January to sort out one central defender but didn't speaks huge volumes about his ability. And please note, that didn't need to be Samba on £125K a week, or Rio Ferdinand, or the defensive equivalent of Stephen Ireland. Just somebody better than Clark, which gives you an awful lot of players to choose from. And Lambert having a go at people for daring to suggest that we needed to get some experience in is beyond the pale.
It's as clear as day we could do with someone more experienced than Clark and also in other areas, but if Lambert came out and said that now it would be a right kick in the knackers to the current squad and would be the equivalent of saying they're not good enough. I've no doubt you would have slagged him off whatever he said though.
Oh do piss off with your childish comments.
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
I wouldnt have him back either as mcleish was not the answer , neither is lambert though.
We are worse than last season as the league table, results, goal difference and points total will testify.
Might have something to do with the fact we lost our best midfielder and several other proven premier league players.
Petrov missed a fair chunk of last season as well- several other proven players like who?
Collins was sold by lambert, hutton and warnock excluded by lambert - which several proven premiership players did we lose in the summer?
Last season and this we had big injury problems, but the formations, poor tactics and poor team selections are lamberts fault as are the training methods which see us so woeful on basic defending- stop making excuses for him .
He spent more in 2 moths here than he did in 3 years at norwich , he is well paid and its time he did his job properly rather than bleat to the press and hide behind excuse after excuse.
That's just rubbish. What excuses does he make? As far as I can see he's always sticking up for his players and not taking the easy way out of blaming them for results.
He might have made mistakes but he's on the thin end of several years of mistakes at the club and deserves to be cut some slack. I'm amazed that you haven't learned your lesson. You keep calling for managers to be sacked but things don't get any better. Isn't it time to reconsider your approach?
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
I wouldnt have him back either as mcleish was not the answer , neither is lambert though.
We are worse than last season as the league table, results, goal difference and points total will testify.
Might have something to do with the fact we lost our best midfielder and several other proven premier league players.
Petrov missed a fair chunk of last season as well- several other proven players like who?
Collins was sold by lambert, hutton and warnock excluded by lambert - which several proven premiership players did we lose in the summer?
Last season and this we had big injury problems, but the formations, poor tactics and poor team selections are lamberts fault as are the training methods which see us so woeful on basic defending- stop making excuses for him .
He spent more in 2 months here than he did in 3 years at norwich , he is well paid and its time he did his job properly rather than bleat to the press and hide behind excuse after excuse.
Petrov made 25 starts last season in the league. I'd say that's more than enough to have a good bearing on our outcome come the end of the season.
On top of those guys you've mentioned we also lost Cuellar and obviously the lesser missed Heskey. Add to those the fact that Dunne has been unavailable all season and you've got pretty big gaps to fill no?
In an ideal world I'm sure he would have kept Collins, Warnock and Hutton this season but Collins leaving gave us the opportunity to get Vlaar in on by all accounts substantially less wages, and the other two were sacrificed to free up more wages so we could add to the extremely thin squad.
Looking at where we were last season and the loss of quality from the starting 11 let alone the squad I would say a relegation battle looked more or less assured unless we were going to throw substantially more at it in terms of both transfer fees and wages.
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Hang on. You stated one extreme, I suggested the other and you blame me for not taking the middle ground? Pots and kettles.
I'm an optimist and positive person by nature, however, I'm happy to acknowledge that there are a number of problems at the club. You, however, haven't posted anything positive and continually slate everything about the club. Don you ever see the middle ground? (I won't bother asking about any positives)
We have a great forward line in Benteke and Weimann, Gabby is back to something approaching what we know he is capable of, and N'Zogbia looks interested for once. There, some positives. However, our defence and midfield are criminally bad, and our manager worse than useless. The fact that he had the whole of January to sort out one central defender but didn't speaks huge volumes about his ability. And please note, that didn't need to be Samba on £125K a week, or Rio Ferdinand, or the defensive equivalent of Stephen Ireland. Just somebody better than Clark, which gives you an awful lot of players to choose from. And Lambert having a go at people for daring to suggest that we needed to get some experience in is beyond the pale.
It's as clear as day we could do with someone more experienced than Clark and also in other areas, but if Lambert came out and said that now it would be a right kick in the knackers to the current squad and would be the equivalent of saying they're not good enough. I've no doubt you would have slagged him off whatever he said though.
Oh do piss off with your childish comments.
Behave.
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
I wouldnt have him back either as mcleish was not the answer , neither is lambert though.
We are worse than last season as the league table, results, goal difference and points total will testify.
Might have something to do with the fact we lost our best midfielder and several other proven premier league players.
Petrov missed a fair chunk of last season as well- several other proven players like who?
Collins was sold by lambert, hutton and warnock excluded by lambert - which several proven premiership players did we lose in the summer?
Last season and this we had big injury problems, but the formations, poor tactics and poor team selections are lamberts fault as are the training methods which see us so woeful on basic defending- stop making excuses for him .
He spent more in 2 moths here than he did in 3 years at norwich , he is well paid and its time he did his job properly rather than bleat to the press and hide behind excuse after excuse.
That's just rubbish. What excuses does he make? As far as I can see he's always sticking up for his players and not taking the easy way out of blaming them for results.
He might have made mistakes but he's on the thin end of several years of mistakes at the club and deserves to be cut some slack. I'm amazed that you haven't learned your lesson. You keep calling for managers to be sacked but things don't get any better. Isn't it time to reconsider your approach?
Quite right. The only road out of our situation is long term stability. Not sacking managers everytime the going gets tough. Whether that means a trip to the Championship or not we'll be much better off sticking by a manager who has proven that given time and not massive but sufficient funds that he can build a decent premier league side and has an eye for players who are capable of stepping up a level. It's all about building for the future for me.
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Building for the future by getting relegated is just about the most stupid idea there is. It greatly reduces your income, both in absolute terms and relative to the Premier League, and also makes hanging on to good young players like Benteke incredibly difficult. If you want stability relegation is just about the worst way to go about it. And with two seasons in the Premier League and one of those looking likely to end in relegation, Lambert certainly hasn't proved he can build a decent Premier League team at all.
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I can't see any advantage in getting relegated JR.
We would struggle to get out of that division with this squad. How we will manage to stay in this one, I don't know. Maybe we need a bit of luck. No more injuries would be a start.
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I'm at the stage where I'd almost consider Allardyce.
He joined Blackburn when they were in a spot of bother and kept them up. Style of football is obviously an issue, but on the few occasions I've seen West Ham this year, they are no worse on the eye than us.
We might have 10-15 minute spells of trying to knock it around, but we're not exactly Cruyff's Holland.
Someone like Sam Allthepies might still be able to utilize the attacking threat we possess, whilst also giving us more organisation at the back. Either Lambert has tried and failed with the latter, or he hasn't even tried. We haven't improved at set pieces, still concede late goals and Bennett still gets picked despite the world and his wife knowing we are vulnerable down that side.
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Of course no one wants us relegated and we all hope it won't come to that but building for the future is just about the only option we have on the money available. The only other one is spend money we don't have and risk paying consequences further down the line which could see us in a far worse situation than we currently are. We've tried that in recent times and looked what's happened.
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
I wouldnt have him back either as mcleish was not the answer , neither is lambert though.
We are worse than last season as the league table, results, goal difference and points total will testify.
Might have something to do with the fact we lost our best midfielder and several other proven premier league players.
Petrov missed a fair chunk of last season as well- several other proven players like who?
Collins was sold by lambert, hutton and warnock excluded by lambert - which several proven premiership players did we lose in the summer?
Last season and this we had big injury problems, but the formations, poor tactics and poor team selections are lamberts fault as are the training methods which see us so woeful on basic defending- stop making excuses for him .
He spent more in 2 moths here than he did in 3 years at norwich , he is well paid and its time he did his job properly rather than bleat to the press and hide behind excuse after excuse.
That's just rubbish. What excuses does he make? As far as I can see he's always sticking up for his players and not taking the easy way out of blaming them for results.
He might have made mistakes but he's on the thin end of several years of mistakes at the club and deserves to be cut some slack. I'm amazed that you haven't learned your lesson. You keep calling for managers to be sacked but things don't get any better. Isn't it time to reconsider your approach?
Long term stability yes, but only if its the right manager - this is not the right man in any shape of form .
I admire your loyalty to managers chris , but all of those in recent years you have backed have failed to a lesser degree- i do see your point and disagree that lambert deserves some slack- in fact at many other clubs he would have been sacked a month ago .
He has spent more in 2 months here than in 3 years at norwich , brought in 10 of his own players and should be judged on the appalling results.
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Jockey, Is that the one where we bought Darren Bent and he scored the goals that took us up to 9th? Those sorts of consequences?
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I'm at the stage where I'd almost consider Allardyce.
He joined Blackburn when they were in a spot of bother and kept them up. Style of football is obviously an issue, but on the few occasions I've seen West Ham this year, they are no worse on the eye than us.
We might have 10-15 minute spells of trying to knock it around, but we're not exactly Cruyff's Holland.
Someone like Sam Allthepies might still be able to utilize the attacking threat we possess, whilst also giving us more organisation at the back. Either Lambert has tried and failed with the latter, or he hasn't even tried. We haven't improved at set pieces, still concede late goals and Bennett still gets picked despite the world and his wife knowing we are vulnerable down that side.
No fan of big sam but he would be a huge improvement on lambert.
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Get a grip of yourselves wanting Allardyce. Seriously, the man is a tool. Lambert is not up to the job, but no thanks to Allardyce!!
Much prefer Adkins or even Curbishley.
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No, no and no.
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I just remember how you lot were criticising O'Neill's style of football and now you're calling for Allardyce. It becomes increasingly difficult to take it seriously in the face of such obviously contradictory positions.
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
I wouldnt have him back either as mcleish was not the answer , neither is lambert though.
We are worse than last season as the league table, results, goal difference and points total will testify.
Might have something to do with the fact we lost our best midfielder and several other proven premier league players.
Petrov missed a fair chunk of last season as well- several other proven players like who?
Collins was sold by lambert, hutton and warnock excluded by lambert - which several proven premiership players did we lose in the summer?
Last season and this we had big injury problems, but the formations, poor tactics and poor team selections are lamberts fault as are the training methods which see us so woeful on basic defending- stop making excuses for him .
He spent more in 2 moths here than he did in 3 years at norwich , he is well paid and its time he did his job properly rather than bleat to the press and hide behind excuse after excuse.
That's just rubbish. What excuses does he make? As far as I can see he's always sticking up for his players and not taking the easy way out of blaming them for results.
He might have made mistakes but he's on the thin end of several years of mistakes at the club and deserves to be cut some slack. I'm amazed that you haven't learned your lesson. You keep calling for managers to be sacked but things don't get any better. Isn't it time to reconsider your approach?
Quite right. The only road out of our situation is long term stability. Not sacking managers everytime the going gets tough. Whether that means a trip to the Championship or not we'll be much better off sticking by a manager who has proven that given time and not massive but sufficient funds that he can build a decen Lambett premier league side and has an eye for players who are capable of stepping up a level. It's all about building for the future for me.
Well said Jockey Randall. Back the team for the rest of the season. Sacking Lambert will definately send us down. Stick with it and we will be fine in the end.
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The time to change manager was a few weeks ago. That didn't happen unfortunately. Now it's time to back them as much as possible.
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Get a grip of yourselves wanting Allardyce. Seriously, the man is a tool. Lambert is not up to the job, but no thanks to Allardyce!!
Much prefer Adkins or even Curbishley.
Is there much different between him and Curbs?
Both usually keep their teams in the league with the minimum of fuss. Plus Curbs has been out of management for years now and seems to be comfortably just doing punditry on SSN.
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Different era, different targets.
Then, we were looking at cracking the top 4. And our agricultural approach to the game was a barrier to making the next step. None of the sides who have enjoyed any degree of success or made top 4 played that way. Passing and keeping possession were seemingly optional extras for O'Neill's sides.
That said, if we hadn't had four years of the fucker (complete with man tantrum at the end) he'd probably be ideal for where we are now.
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I just remember how you lot were criticising O'Neill's style of football and now you're calling for Allardyce. It becomes increasingly difficult to take it seriously in the face of such obviously contradictory positions.
I agree and was of the same opinion in 2011 when his name was mooted after leaving Blackburn and Houllier was under big pressure.
Didn't want him but if I knew what the next two years had in store with all the general cost cutting going on I would've changed that opinion.
He wouldn't be in any danger of going down under his watch imo (West Ham have been comfortable all season) and he's shown at Bolton and Blackburn he can get good results and finish in the top half with a minimal budget so yeah imo he'd have certainly been a better choice as a "transitional" manager than TSM.
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I just remember how you lot were criticising O'Neill's style of football and now you're calling for Allardyce. It becomes increasingly difficult to take it seriously in the face of such obviously contradictory positions.
Who is calling for allardyce? Just because i said he would be better than lambert doesnt mean hes the best option , even mick mcarthy is a better option but we need the right man - maybe gus poyet , or a manager from the continent?
Lamberts situation reminds me so much of mike walker when he left norwich for everton - they however realised their mistake and pulled clear of relegation after sacking him .
As this poll suggests there is basically a 50-50 split on lambert and i doubt either side will convince the other to change their mind so we will agree to disagree.
On a matchday im sure we will all be fully behind the team.
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I wouldn't have Mcleish back, I think we're forgetting last season. We're no worse off than that.
I wouldnt have him back either as mcleish was not the answer , neither is lambert though.
We are worse than last season as the league table, results, goal difference and points total will testify.
Might have something to do with the fact we lost our best midfielder and several other proven premier league players.
Petrov missed a fair chunk of last season as well- several other proven players like who?
Collins was sold by lambert, hutton and warnock excluded by lambert - which several proven premiership players did we lose in the summer?
Last season and this we had big injury problems, but the formations, poor tactics and poor team selections are lamberts fault as are the training methods which see us so woeful on basic defending- stop making excuses for him .
He spent more in 2 moths here than he did in 3 years at norwich , he is well paid and its time he did his job properly rather than bleat to the press and hide behind excuse after excuse.
That's just rubbish. What excuses does he make? As far as I can see he's always sticking up for his players and not taking the easy way out of blaming them for results.
He might have made mistakes but he's on the thin end of several years of mistakes at the club and deserves to be cut some slack. I'm amazed that you haven't learned your lesson. You keep calling for managers to be sacked but things don't get any better. Isn't it time to reconsider your approach?
On the point of PL sticking up for the players, last week he effectively put the ongoing Cornergeddon situation down to the cowardice of the defenders who would not put their heads in the way of danger and risk a cut eye.
I am still in favour of sticking with him given all the circumstances.
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Jockey, Is that the one where we bought Darren Bent and he scored the goals that took us up to 9th? Those sorts of consequences?
There was short term gain in that instance yes, but long term, it's deals like that and the high wages that have come with it that has resulted in where we are now.
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I don't see why Allardyce would come here. He has a better chance of keeping West Ham up and has the type of players to play his type of football.
After giving Lambert two transfer windows we have made our bed. It's (largely) a team that he has assembled and there are probably not many managers better equipped to get the best out of them (allthough there are certainly better managers around).
Anyway, I wouldn't say relegation is a certainty. We have a lot of winnable games left: West Ham at home, Reading away, QPR at home, Fulham at home, Sunderland at home, Norwich away, Wigan away. If we can win four of those seven matches it may be enough. The problem is of course that even that will be difficult if we insist on conceding two goals every game.
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I just remember how you lot were criticising O'Neill's style of football and now you're calling for Allardyce. It becomes increasingly difficult to take it seriously in the face of such obviously contradictory positions.
Who is calling for allardyce? Just because i said he would be better than lambert doesnt mean hes the best option , even mick mcarthy is a better option but we need the right man - maybe gus poyet , or a manager from the continent?
Lamberts situation reminds me so much of mike walker when he left norwich for everton - they however realised their mistake and pulled clear of relegation after sacking him .
As this poll suggests there is basically a 50-50 split on lambert and i doubt either side will convince the other to change their mind so we will agree to disagree.
On a matchday im sure we will all be fully behind the team.
I thought Walker kept them up on the last day of the season in 1993-4. They were in the crap when he took over but he didn't improve them much.
Certainly he was replaced by Joe Royle after a couple of months the following season, who did a much better job.
Walker ended up hiring out skips IIRC. Lambert will inevitabley end up at Celtic and/or Scotland.
Managers who leave Villa normally only head in one direction. DOWN!
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I said the same a couple of weeks back.
With the squad and style of play O'Neill left behind, the one man I can think of who would hit the ground running would've been Allardyce.
Part of the problem has been Houllier trying to play possession football with a squad put together to play over the top. Then when Houllier had started to build a side we had McLeish not knowing what to do with Bent and so on.
We'd have cried blue murder if Fat Sam got the job at the time but I promise you, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.
(note to Lerner - if you sack Lambert, this doesn't mean anybody is saying replace him with Dudleys finest)
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Rob- yes they survived on the last day against wimbledon and had their worst ever start to the next season , he lasted 10 months-
Walker quit Norwich in January 1994, following a long running feud with Chairman Robert Chase (mainly centring around Chase's habit of selling off the club's key players without consulting his manager first - for example Robert Fleck to Chelsea just after Walker's appointment), to become manager of Everton, with Everton having to pay substantial compensation to Norwich to secure his services.
] Everton made a disastrous start to the 1994/95 season, failing to win a single league game until November. With Everton bottom of the table and having made their worst ever start to a league season, Walker was sacked having spent just ten months in charge and recording only six league wins, leaving him with the worst record of any post-war Everton manager. Walker was nicknamed the 'Silver Fox' during his time at Goodison, and one of the more positive aspects of his reign was his decision to bring the controversial Rangers striker Duncan Ferguson to Everton on loan, a gamble which ultimately paid off after Walker's departure with Joe Royle signing the Scot on a permanent basis.
After Walker's dismissal, Everton went on that season to not only successfully avoid relegation but also win the FA Cup under Royle.
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I said the same a couple of weeks back.
With the squad and style of play O'Neill left behind, the one man I can think of who would hit the ground running would've been Allardyce.
Part of the problem has been Houllier trying to play possession football with a squad put together to play over the top. Then when Houllier had started to build a side we had McLeish not knowing what to do with Bent and so on.
We'd have cried blue murder if Fat Sam got the job at the time but I promise you, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.
(note to Lerner - if you sack Lambert, this doesn't mean anybody is saying replace him with Dudleys finest)
Yep Allardyce from a purely practical point of view and continuity would have been a good selection at the time and no way would we have had a relegation scrap with that squad under him.
It is a travesty we had said scrap as Houllier seemed to want to divide and rule and he (and McAllister) antagonised half the squad, unfortunately the half that mattered.
What the fuck they (Faulkner I suppose) were doing hiring them pair I still can't fathom. Houllier was ill and McAllister hadn't exactly pulled up any trees - previous role was assistant to Strachan at Boro which was a car crash.
This was then surpassed by an even bigger fuck up when they hired McLeish which was doomed even before it got started.
At least I could understand what they were doing when they hired Lambert - unfortunately it transpires we have a Graham Turner / Billy McNeill rolled into one and not Graham Taylor (mark I)
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Lambert is clearly not going anywhere, and we haven't strengthened the defence which most thought was essential. So all he can do now is draft in an expert defensive coach because the bloke doing it now is clearly a load of shit. It's our only hope.
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Lambert is clearly not going anywhere, and we haven't strengthened the defence which most thought was essential. So all he can do now is draft in an expert defensive coach because the bloke doing it now is clearly a load of shit. It's our only hope.
Any ideas who that could be?
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I just remember how you lot were criticising O'Neill's style of football and now you're calling for Allardyce. It becomes increasingly difficult to take it seriously in the face of such obviously contradictory positions.
I've read the last few pages, and that last sentence says everything.
I will say though, given our current predicament, a short term return to O'Neill tactics might suit us given the players we have.
Stick Baker in at left back, tell the back four to do fuck all else but defend and then spring the counter with some quality forwards.
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I just remember how you lot were criticising O'Neill's style of football and now you're calling for Allardyce. It becomes increasingly difficult to take it seriously in the face of such obviously contradictory positions.
It's hard to take somebody seriously who doesn't realise that the situation now compared to three years ago is entirely different.
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Lambert is clearly not going anywhere, and we haven't strengthened the defence which most thought was essential. So all he can do now is draft in an expert defensive coach because the bloke doing it now is clearly a load of shit. It's our only hope.
Any ideas who that could be?
Martin Laursen please.
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Lambert is clearly not going anywhere, and we haven't strengthened the defence which most thought was essential. So all he can do now is draft in an expert defensive coach because the bloke doing it now is clearly a load of shit. It's our only hope.
Any ideas who that could be?
Martin Laursen please.
Nail.on.head.
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I just remember how you lot were criticising O'Neill's style of football and now you're calling for Allardyce. It becomes increasingly difficult to take it seriously in the face of such obviously contradictory positions.
It's hard to take somebody seriously who doesn't realise that the situation now compared to three years ago is entirely different.
So when we stay up under Allardyce, do we then sack him because his football is a fucking abomination?
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If we do stay up, will Lambert can any credit for it?
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If we do stay up, will Lambert can any credit for it?
I think he'd have to, as every fucker has us down as it stands.
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If we do stay up, will Lambert can any credit for it?
I think he'd have to, as every fucker has us down as it stands.
To right he will get the credit if we do stop up, after the January we have had, it will be a minor mirracle if we manage to do it!
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If we do stay up, will Lambert can any credit for it?
I think he'd have to, as every fucker has us down as it stands.
That doesn't make sense. Him being very slightly less shit than we thought doesn't make him any good. Only nearly getting us relegated, as opposed to actually getting us relegated would not be a mark of any kind of success. If you can tell me we stay up because of his tactics, team selection, motivational skills, organisation, or any other attribute, fine, but the mere fact he keeps us up when a lot of people thought he wouldn't puts him in the esteemed company of Mr A McLeish.
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If we do stay up, will Lambert can any credit for it?
I think he'd have to, as every fucker has us down as it stands.
That doesn't make sense. Him being very slightly less shit than we thought doesn't make him any good. Only nearly getting us relegated, as opposed to actually getting us relegated would not be a mark of any kind of success. If you can tell me we stay up because of his tactics, team selection, motivational skills, organisation, or any other attribute, fine, but the mere fact he keeps us up when a lot of people thought he wouldn't puts him in the esteemed company of Mr A McLeish.
If he keeps us up, I'm sure along the way those skills you mention would be utillised.
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Lambert is clearly not going anywhere,
I dunno.
Publically the powers at be will say he has their full support. They'll be saying that right up until the time they sack him (if they do).
I felt he should have been potted after the Bradford farce, but I understand why they didn't. If he was responsible for that catastrafuck (and he was) he was also responsible for our run to the SF, where -with draws against Man Citeh and Norwich away- we did, in all honesty, exceed expectations to get that far in the first place.
Having lost 'must win' games against the likes of Wigan, Southampton and Newcastle is a different matter. Lose another (to West Ham) and the trigger finger might get itchy.
I''ll only start to think he's here for the foreseeable if he's still around with less than 10 games to go. Any prospective new manager needs at least that to even attempt to affect some sort of turnaround.
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Allardyce would be very short term thinking. Might seem good on paper given Lambert hasn't exactly given us what we had hoped to date, but we'd all be hating Allardyce eventually. And if are to mental and plump for him, we may as well go all in and get Pulis.
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If we do stay up, will Lambert can any credit for it?
We sacked McLeish for not nearly being as shit as Lambert so why should he take any credit for keeping us up? We're hardly a yo yo club after all.
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He has made mistakes, but tonight I think he should stay. Who else do we suggest? The bloke has been let down by the owner, not his fault. He wanted Sissoko, seems a class act, but we couldnt pay the wages. Not his fault who we did get
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He has made mistakes, but tonight I think he should stay. Who else do we suggest? The bloke has been let down by the owner, not his fault. He wanted Sissoko, seems a class act, but we couldnt pay the wages. Not his fault who we did get
But why not spend what little cash we had in January on a defender? That's what we needed the most.
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Lambert is clearly not going anywhere, and we haven't strengthened the defence which most thought was essential. So all he can do now is draft in an expert defensive coach because the bloke doing it now is clearly a load of shit. It's our only hope.
Any ideas who that could be?
Martin Laursen please.
Nail.on.head.
I'd settle for any decent centre half from recent past. Laursen, God, Mellberg, hell if it is't some kind of time distortion trick I seem to recall Portsmouth under 'Arry were pretty tight at the back when Tony Adams became his number 2. What's he up to these days?
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If we do stay up, will Lambert can any credit for it?
I think he'd have to, as every fucker has us down as it stands.
That doesn't make sense. Him being very slightly less shit than we thought doesn't make him any good. Only nearly getting us relegated, as opposed to actually getting us relegated would not be a mark of any kind of success. If you can tell me we stay up because of his tactics, team selection, motivational skills, organisation, or any other attribute, fine, but the mere fact he keeps us up when a lot of people thought he wouldn't puts him in the esteemed company of Mr A McLeish.
If he keeps us up, I'm sure along the way those skills you mention would be utillised.
But my point wax that merely keeping us up will not necessarily show that he has those skills to the degree I would expect in a manager of Aston Villa. To repeat myself, that is a level of performance achieved by TSM. To follow your argument he was ok?
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If we do stay up, will Lambert can any credit for it?
I think he'd have to, as every fucker has us down as it stands.
That doesn't make sense. Him being very slightly less shit than we thought doesn't make him any good. Only nearly getting us relegated, as opposed to actually getting us relegated would not be a mark of any kind of success. If you can tell me we stay up because of his tactics, team selection, motivational skills, organisation, or any other attribute, fine, but the mere fact he keeps us up when a lot of people thought he wouldn't puts him in the esteemed company of Mr A McLeish.
If he keeps us up, I'm sure along the way those skills you mention would be utillised.
But my point wax that merely keeping us up will not necessarily show that he has those skills to the degree I would expect in a manager of Aston Villa. To repeat myself, that is a level of performance achieved by TSM. To follow your argument he was ok?
On that basis maybe no, but given the circumstances en route I would say yes.
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He still gets my vote. I think we can stay up, especially with the firepower we have at the front. If we stay up and buy a few good players in the summer then next season will be very very promising indeed.
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He has made mistakes, but tonight I think he should stay. Who else do we suggest? The bloke has been let down by the owner, not his fault. He wanted Sissoko, seems a class act, but we couldnt pay the wages. Not his fault who we did get
But why not spend what little cash we had in January on a defender? That's what we needed the most.
Such as who and please dont say Upson. He has been lleft high and dry by the owner, lets move on
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We clearly were after someone at the back, I seem to recall Lambert dropping hints about Lescott for a while at the beginning of the window until Man City said no way. He will have been trying, but then I guess he's a failure at that too.
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Yep Allardyce from a purely practical point of view and continuity would have been a good selection at the time and no way would we have had a relegation scrap with that squad under him.
I'd have cried bitter, salty years if we had gone for the greatest manager Real Madrid never had then. I'm not crazy about the idea of Allardyce now, in all honesty.
In 2010 we had an opportunity to push the thing on, and a manager/coach with a decent profile wasn't beyond us.
Moyes was the favourite of many. I suggested Laudrup even back then as an outside bet (though I was concerned that he didn't seem to have too much longevity at his previous clubs, despite enjoying a degree of success with most).
The likes of Koeman and Rijkaard expressed interest in the job. The guy we went for did actually have a good reputation in the game. But he was past his best and had an air of someone winding his career down and going through the motions, reflecting on glory days of yesteryear. I wanted to like GH, most of us probably did. He just made it so very very hard.
Fast forward two and a bit years and we're in a slightly different situation, to put it mildly. Now -if we have any serious notions about staying in the top flight- it's about grinding out the 4/5 victories we need to stay up. It is absolutely all about the short term.
Will Lambert be able to deliver that? Based on the season so far, it seems unlikely. It's not as if we're unlucky, drawing and losing games we should win. It's the same basic errors occuring again and again. Plus, to me, this talk of longterm planning is overplayed anyway. Not many clubs could ignore results as brutal as ours have been and fob it off, with the notion that we might (possibly) be a bit better at some unspecified point in the future.
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We clearly were after someone at the back, I seem to recall Lambert dropping hints about Lescott for a while at the beginning of the window until Man City said no way. He will have been trying, but then I guess he's a failure at that too.
He may have wanted Lescott, maybe he didnt have the funds eh
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I was listening a radio show about agents today. It shouldn't discounted how repulsive those people get especially during a very short transfer window. It's entirely possible we wanted other players but the combined transfer, sign on, salary and agent fees was just too much for our targets. We still should have been able to get someone in defence though despite that mind you. The players wouldn't all have been of Lescott quality.
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Looks like the gap is closing in the poll. Is this new votes or people changing their minds?
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Rob- yes they survived on the last day against wimbledon and had their worst ever start to the next season , he lasted 10 months-
Walker quit Norwich in January 1994, following a long running feud with Chairman Robert Chase (mainly centring around Chase's habit of selling off the club's key players without consulting his manager first - for example Robert Fleck to Chelsea just after Walker's appointment), to become manager of Everton, with Everton having to pay substantial compensation to Norwich to secure his services.
] Everton made a disastrous start to the 1994/95 season, failing to win a single league game until November. With Everton bottom of the table and having made their worst ever start to a league season, Walker was sacked having spent just ten months in charge and recording only six league wins, leaving him with the worst record of any post-war Everton manager. Walker was nicknamed the 'Silver Fox' during his time at Goodison, and one of the more positive aspects of his reign was his decision to bring the controversial Rangers striker Duncan Ferguson to Everton on loan, a gamble which ultimately paid off after Walker's departure with Joe Royle signing the Scot on a permanent basis.
After Walker's dismissal, Everton went on that season to not only successfully avoid relegation but also win the FA Cup under Royle.
Eastipedia is always a good source of reference.
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Rob- yes they survived on the last day against wimbledon and had their worst ever start to the next season , he lasted 10 months-
Walker quit Norwich in January 1994, following a long running feud with Chairman Robert Chase (mainly centring around Chase's habit of selling off the club's key players without consulting his manager first - for example Robert Fleck to Chelsea just after Walker's appointment), to become manager of Everton, with Everton having to pay substantial compensation to Norwich to secure his services.
] Everton made a disastrous start to the 1994/95 season, failing to win a single league game until November. With Everton bottom of the table and having made their worst ever start to a league season, Walker was sacked having spent just ten months in charge and recording only six league wins, leaving him with the worst record of any post-war Everton manager. Walker was nicknamed the 'Silver Fox' during his time at Goodison, and one of the more positive aspects of his reign was his decision to bring the controversial Rangers striker Duncan Ferguson to Everton on loan, a gamble which ultimately paid off after Walker's departure with Joe Royle signing the Scot on a permanent basis.
After Walker's dismissal, Everton went on that season to not only successfully avoid relegation but also win the FA Cup under Royle.
Eastipedia is always a good source of reference.
Still none the wiser as to whether they were better off for sacking who Kendall? in 93-94.
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The time to make the change was mid-month after the Southampton game. We still would have had the Newcastle game to come as well as the second leg of the Cup semi to put right. As has been mentioned, winning at Citeh and Norwich to get to the semi-final possibly, being generous, cancels out the subsequent embarassing knock-out by Bradford.
I'd just love to know what happened to the money earmarked to buy Dempsey. Apparently we would have got Benteke anyway. If there was more money there to spend in Jan, then the only reason I can see Lambert not going for more/better players is a stubborn belief in what he's got already. If it's true though, and Inspectors Gnasher and Eastie are correct; that negligence is reason enough for sacking.
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The time to make the change was mid-month after the Southampton game. We still would have had the Newcastle game to come as well as the second leg of the Cup semi to put right. As has been mentioned, winning at Citeh and Norwich to get to the semi-final possibly, being generous, cancels out the subsequent embarassing knock-out by Bradford.
I'd just love to know what happened to the money earmarked to buy Dempsey. Apparently we would have got Benteke anyway. If there was more money there to spend in Jan, then the only reason I can see Lambert not going for more/better players is a stubborn belief in what he's got already. If it's true though, and Inspectors Gnasher and Eastie are correct; that negligence is reason enough for sacking.
Heh. I don't claim to know anything. All i'm going on is what eastie's source told him, and that conflicts with what the manager has said, both on how much much was available and who he chose to spend some of it on. All that's certain is someone seems to be lying or as another forumer said "dangerous games appear to be being played"
I quite understand the rationale behind Lambchop not having a fortune to spend, and indeed not buying a defender if he couldn't find someone better than what we have. Where that argument falls down is, how expensive, or on what wages would someone have to be to be no better than the current mob? Lambchop's opinion may differ than ours on that, but if you look at who he did sign he was hardly shopping in Harrods, so he can find a very cheap Defensive midfielder, and the worlds oldest youth player on loan who are both better than what we've got in his opinion, but he can't find a bog standard defender? By his own standards of signings these are not expensive players, and certainly affordable in the budget he is alledged to have been given. So whether he has got a mental block about the defence or threw his toys out the pram when the club wouldn't sanction a big name, something's going on imo.
I would say this constant peddling of the "we've got no money but i love Randy" line from the manager seems to seriously contradict what appeared simultaneously in about 3 or 4 newspaper reports a few weeks back, when the general opinion on here was the press had been tipped-off by the club that Lerner had sanctioned some spending. So either Lerner went back on his word and Eastie's source is wrong or lying, or Lambert chose not to spend all his budget
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If we keep playing the front four that we are now, then we will be within a shout of out scoring all but a few sides in this league.
We have played with pace and width in the past one and a half games and looked a lot better for it. We must get Dunne back asap and Clark a rest to have a re-think.
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Lambert should be sacked on results alone.
His formations, tactics, team selections have all been bewildering at times as has his failure to getvthe team to defend properly never mind his transfer activity.
Just to add regarding sources that greg has seen the full e mail and knows where it came from - lambert should have gone a month ago and i fear the damage has now already been done sadly.
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I think it has taken him until half-way through the Newcastle game to realise what his best attacking options are.
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I think it has taken him until half-way through the Newcastle game to realise what his best attacking options are.
Nzogbia finding form has been very good for us , he looks as if he has rediscovered his zest recently.
I would play him in a free role behind weimann and benteke with a midfield of delph westwood and sylla, bring in baker at left back and dunne in place of clark if all fit .
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It has been key.
The thing about a front four of Gabby, Charlie, Andi and Benteke, is that it has it all. Andi and Gabby are disciplined enough to play wide to assist the full backs, but then you look at what they offer going forward; pace, power, industry, flair, width and muscle.
I think having Gabby wide and drifting in stretches the opposition both in terms of how deep they must defend but also across the pitch too giving a bit more space in the middle.
If we have any chance, and we do, then Lambert has to keep these four on the pitch more often than not. If Bent and Dawkins can assist, then more the better.
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It has been key.
The thing about a front four of Gabby, Charlie, Andi and Benteke, is that it has it all. Andi and Gabby are disciplined enough to play wide to assist the full backs, but then you look at what they offer going forward; pace, power, industry, flair, width and muscle.
I think having Gabby wide and drifting in stretches the opposition both in terms of how deep they must defend but also across the pitch too giving a bit more space in the middle.
If we have any chance, and we do, then Lambert has to keep these four on the pitch more often than not. If Bent and Dawkins can assist, then more the better.
Id be tempted to use gabby as an impact sub and add the extra man in midfield to help protect the defence - delph recently has looked decent and alongside westwood and sylla may provide more protection.
The thong with a front four is we will always have a chance of goals but will always look weak in midfield as on saturday - its getting that fine balance right.
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Looks like the gap is closing in the poll. Is this new votes or people changing their minds?
Maybe you need to see what the weather is doing before deciding which way you will vote today dc5? :D
You were in , you were out , you were in again - maybe you shake it all about?
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I thought we did reasonably well in the midfield yesterday. Everton did not create a great deal and in the end it was us who carved out the only other gilt edge chance of the game with Andi deciding he would murder the football when he should have scored.
Delph has done well, but even though he has not impressed, I feel KEA gives us a better option as he has more knowhow. I wouldn't be adverse to seeing them play together, but then I think Sylla needs a chance.
There are only a few sides who would have come back from 3-1 down and Everton are one of them, West Ham et al are not.
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I thought we did reasonably well in the midfield yesterday. Everton did not create a great deal and in the end it was us who carved out the only other gilt edge chance of the game with Andi deciding he would murder the football when he should have scored.
Delph has done well, but even though he has not impressed, I feel KEA gives us a better option as he has more knowhow. I wouldn't be adverse to seeing them play together, but then I think Sylla needs a chance.
There are only a few sides who would have come back from 3-1 down and Everton are one of them, West Ham et al are not.
Kea did look better on saturday than for a while - lets hope he rediscovers some form as have nzog and delph.
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I think its the pace of the game with KEA more than any lack of quality.
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I thought we did reasonably well in the midfield yesterday. Everton did not create a great deal and in the end it was us who carved out the only other gilt edge chance of the game with Andi deciding he would murder the football when he should have scored.
Delph has done well, but even though he has not impressed, I feel KEA gives us a better option as he has more knowhow. I wouldn't be adverse to seeing them play together, but then I think Sylla needs a chance.
There are only a few sides who would have come back from 3-1 down and Everton are one of them, West Ham et al are not.
Very true. Not many teams could score two or more goals against us to change the game. Only the like of Everton. Or Manchester United. Or Albion. Or Southampton. Or Millwall.
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The three sides who have done it are not the others I would class with West Ham, Man United and Everton are top four sides and the Albion are comfortably top half.
If Bent had have score on around 50 minutes at Southampton to make it two nil, we'd have strolled the game.
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When was the last time we strolled a game? We don't stroll games.
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I thought we did reasonably well in the midfield yesterday. Everton did not create a great deal and in the end it was us who carved out the only other gilt edge chance of the game with Andi deciding he would murder the football when he should have scored.
Delph has done well, but even though he has not impressed, I feel KEA gives us a better option as he has more knowhow. I wouldn't be adverse to seeing them play together, but then I think Sylla needs a chance.
There are only a few sides who would have come back from 3-1 down and Everton are one of them, West Ham et al are not.
Kea did look better on saturday than for a while - lets hope he rediscovers some form as have nzog and delph.
Not sure what games you were watching but KEA was absolutely awful. I felt like we were playing with 10 men, It was like he was jet lagged, 10 seconds behind everyone else.
When he got the ball he was so slow at doing anything with it that he kept giving them the ball back.
My only surprise was that he wasn't subbed at halftime.
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When was the last time we strolled a game? We don't stroll games.
Wimbledon many moons ago... :-)
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Kea did look better on saturday than for a while - lets hope he rediscovers some form as have nzog and delph.
I'm not really one for lambasting individuals but I must say I forgot KEA was on the park at Goodison. I don't know if he is out of his depth, being played in the wrong role, or just that he has not adapted to the Premiership yet, but he did very little apart from chase shadows from where I was sitting.
Everyone keeps focusing on the defenders - but at Everton we lost control of the midfield as they pressed up. We needed more strength and presence in the midfield to stifle Everton - then maybe that stoppage time corner would never have happened. As it was - all Everton did was push their full backs forward and we were so narrow they continually had 2 vs 1 on the wing. It was not hard to spot - yet we seemed incapable of dealing with it.
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Our central midfield options are abysmal imo bar Westwood. I'd say the options are worse then back up 3 years ago like NRC, Sidwell and Gardner.
I think if we had those three above as our midfield starting three we'd stay up which shows what a laughably bad transfer window it was.
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This guy has a very good reputation for information and a large following - make of it whatever you wish-
@indykaila: Part 1: I was speaking to well respected football owner last night and they commented on Aston Villa situation. Shocking feedback
@indykaila: Part 2: Aston Villa are in shocking financial situation and they looking for help and investment. Testing times for the football club.
@indykaila: Part 3: They have issues on paying out on Lambert contract if sacked .The players also raise concerns over various issues.
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This guy has a very good reputation for information and a huge following - make of it whatever you wish-
@indykaila: Part 1: I was speaking to well respected football owner last night and they commented on Aston Villa situation. Shocking feedback
@indykaila: Part 2: Aston Villa are in shocking financial situation and they looking for help and investment. Testing times for the football club.
@indykaila: Part 3: They have issues on paying out on Lambert contract if sacked .The players also raise concerns over various issues.
I won't make much, thank you.
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Why would a freelance journalist be giving away exclusives on Twitter when he could sell them to real people?
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Guess we'll never know the whole truth...
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Why would a freelance journalist be giving away exclusives on Twitter when he could sell them to real people?
Hes not a journalist thats just a username , if you look on his account he says in his profile what he does and the guy has proved to be very reliable on his news in the past - as i say make of it what you wish , but if you care to read back on his tweets he has a very good record .
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Why would a freelance journalist be giving away exclusives on Twitter when he could sell them to real people?
Hes not a journalist , if you look on his account he says in his profile that , the guy has proved to be very reliable on his news in the past - as i say make of it what you wish , but if you care to read back on his tweets he has a very good record .
I've looked at them and all I can see is stuff that others have said first. In any case, how can what he said ever be proved one way or the other? I could say I've been talking to Premier League club owners and they say Norwich, or West Ham, or Newcastle are on the verge of severe difficulties. It would mean nothing.
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This guy has a very good reputation for information and a huge following - make of it whatever you wish-
@indykaila: Part 1: I was speaking to well respected football owner last night and they commented on Aston Villa situation. Shocking feedback
@indykaila: Part 2: Aston Villa are in shocking financial situation and they looking for help and investment. Testing times for the football club.
@indykaila: Part 3: They have issues on paying out on Lambert contract if sacked .The players also raise concerns over various issues.
I'd be surprised if this wasn't true I'm afraid,given our farcical lack of action in the transfer window
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Why would a freelance journalist be giving away exclusives on Twitter when he could sell them to real people?
Hes not a journalist , if you look on his account he says in his profile that , the guy has proved to be very reliable on his news in the past - as i say make of it what you wish , but if you care to read back on his tweets he has a very good record .
I've looked at them and all I can see is stuff that others have said first. In any case, how can what he said ever be proved one way or the other? I could say I've been talking to Premier League club owners and they say Norwich, or West Ham, or Newcastle are on the verge of severe difficulties. It would mean nothing.
Fair enough, actually a lot of stuff he has revealed before its become public knowledge.
Only time will tell.
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Why would a freelance journalist be giving away exclusives on Twitter when he could sell them to real people?
Hes not a journalist thats just a username , if you look on his account he says in his profile what he does and the guy has proved to be very reliable on his news in the past - as i say make of it what you wish , but if you care to read back on his tweets he has a very good record .
Eastie, I've got a pal in Nigeria who needs a bank account to transfer large inheritance sums as his corrupt government are looking to take it off him. He's willing to pay a significant fee if you can help him.
Shall I PM you the details?
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I tell you what leeb pm me your details and i will deposit it for you from him :D
Theres a lot of shit on twitter but this guy is rarely wrong as you will see from his tweets- if you choose to believe him or not is up to you- certainly doesnt bother me either way .
My take on it is he probably did speak to another owner but they are probably guessing about villas situation as a possible explanation for the lack of transfer activity.
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This guy has a very good reputation for information and a huge following - make of it whatever you wish-
@indykaila: Part 1: I was speaking to well respected football owner last night and they commented on Aston Villa situation. Shocking feedback
@indykaila: Part 2: Aston Villa are in shocking financial situation and they looking for help and investment. Testing times for the football club.
@indykaila: Part 3: They have issues on paying out on Lambert contract if sacked .The players also raise concerns over various issues.
I'd be surprised if this wasn't true I'm afraid,given our farcical lack of action in the transfer window
There isn't one shred of evidence to suggest that he's not making the whole thing up but he's saying something bad about the Villa so it MUST be true.
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This guy has a very good reputation for information and a huge following - make of it whatever you wish-
@indykaila: Part 1: I was speaking to well respected football owner last night and they commented on Aston Villa situation. Shocking feedback
@indykaila: Part 2: Aston Villa are in shocking financial situation and they looking for help and investment. Testing times for the football club.
@indykaila: Part 3: They have issues on paying out on Lambert contract if sacked .The players also raise concerns over various issues.
I'd be surprised if this wasn't true I'm afraid,given our farcical lack of action in the transfer window
There isn't one shred of evidence to suggest that he's not making the whole thing up but he's saying something bad about the Villa so it MUST be true.
I'm not saying it must be true but I don't think anybody would be that surprised if it was, given fact their was very little action in the transfer window and complete refusal to compete with the likes of Newcastle and Stoke
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This guy has a very good reputation for information and a huge following - make of it whatever you wish-
@indykaila: Part 1: I was speaking to well respected football owner last night and they commented on Aston Villa situation. Shocking feedback
@indykaila: Part 2: Aston Villa are in shocking financial situation and they looking for help and investment. Testing times for the football club.
@indykaila: Part 3: They have issues on paying out on Lambert contract if sacked .The players also raise concerns over various issues.
I'd be surprised if this wasn't true I'm afraid,given our farcical lack of action in the transfer window
There isn't one shred of evidence to suggest that he's not making the whole thing up but he's saying something bad about the Villa so it MUST be true.
I'm not saying it must be true but I don't think anybody would be that surprised if it was, given fact their was very little action in the transfer window and complete refusal to compete with the likes of Newcastle and Stoke
You said you'd be surprised if it wasn't true.
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This guy has a very good reputation for information and a large following - make of it whatever you wish-
@indykaila: Part 1: I was speaking to well respected football owner last night and they commented on Aston Villa situation. Shocking feedback
@indykaila: Part 2: Aston Villa are in shocking financial situation and they looking for help and investment. Testing times for the football club.
@indykaila: Part 3: They have issues on paying out on Lambert contract if sacked .The players also raise concerns over various issues.
So let me get this straight: we're in a bad place, we have no money to spend after years of over spending and looking for outside investment. Plus after getting rid of two managers in two years, backroom staff and settling out of court with O'Neill can't afford to pay off another managerial team in the Summer and after shit results all season the players are pissed off - fuckin'ell hold the back page, what a scoop, can see why a lot of people follow him. :o
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Yes,and it's the clubs latest actions(or lack of) makes me think that it may be true, or could there be another reason for the complete and utter lack of investment at a time when it was most needed?
It's nothing that we didn't know already really
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If only there were some sort of legislation whereby the club had to make its accounts available on a regular basis. Say, once a year. Surely that'd tell pretty much the whole picture?
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Yes,and it's the clubs latest actions(or lack of) makes me think that it may be true, or could there be another reason for the complete and utter lack of investment at a time when it was most needed?
It's nothing that we didn't know already really
Which is the point I was making. We don't know so there's no point in jumping to any conclusion. As I've said since 11.01pm on 31st January, what happens was so unfathomable that we can't at the moment blame anyone.
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Yes,and it's the clubs latest actions(or lack of) makes me think that it may be true, or could there be another reason for the complete and utter lack of investment at a time when it was most needed?
It's nothing that we didn't know already really
After the MON spend, the compo paid out to successive managers / backroom staff and the absence of some unforeseen leap in gate-receipts / commercial activities, it's no grreat surprise that the main investor has drawn in his horns; notwithstanding the fact that the timing appears ill-judged if he wants to protect his investment.
If I was in RL's position right now, I too would be looking for other investors.
We are where we are. The only issue I have right now in all of this is the lack of £20m or so last month to shore up our EPL status; All other issues are for another day when this season has played out.
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I'm certainly not business savy but if surely if you're after investments then you need to make it an attractive proposition. If you were a potential investor, you see a company being owned by a billionaire who isn't prepared to put any more of his own money in so what message does that send out? and with the investment he has pumped in, the club still finds itself in this situation.
But like you said, we don't really know what's going on.
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Hardly fighting off any potential suitors is he?-
Lambert is understandably eager to keep the Belgium international at Villa Park, and warned that potential suitors would need to dig deep to prise him away in the summer.
"When the guy came into Villa, people were saying to me 'who is he and why are you going for someone from Genk?"' Lambert said.
"With what he's done, he's a cult hero already.
"He's only 22 and he's got years and years ahead of him. He's not at his peak, but what he's done for me and for the club is fantastic.
"If someone wanted to buy Christian, they'd better have a few quid in their pocket."
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Hardly fighting off any potential suitors is he?-
Lambert is understandably eager to keep the Belgium international at Villa Park, and warned that potential suitors would need to dig deep to prise him away in the summer.
"When the guy came into Villa, people were saying to me 'who is he and why are you going for someone from Genk?"' Lambert said.
"With what he's done, he's a cult hero already.
"He's only 22 and he's got years and years ahead of him. He's not at his peak, but what he's done for me and for the club is fantastic.
"If someone wanted to buy Christian, they'd better have a few quid in their pocket."
Jesustittyfuckingchrist.
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This guy has a very good reputation for information and a large following - make of it whatever you wish-
@indykaila: Part 1: I was speaking to well respected football owner last night and they commented on Aston Villa situation. Shocking feedback
@indykaila: Part 2: Aston Villa are in shocking financial situation and they looking for help and investment. Testing times for the football club.
@indykaila: Part 3: They have issues on paying out on Lambert contract if sacked .The players also raise concerns over various issues.
I used to follow him and he got nothing right on Villa ever !I even tweeted him about it and got no reply.Recently he made comments about Chelsea and a Journo pulled him up saying he was talking rubbish.
I'm not saying everything is Rosy at Villa but I think he is wide of the mark with his comments.
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In terms of "points per game managed" in the top four divisions this season, Lambert ranks 106 out of 122
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21372441
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In terms of "points per game managed" in the top four divisions this season, Lambert ranks 106 out of 122
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21372441
Have the other 16 below him all been sacked?
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If only there were some sort of legislation whereby the club had to make its accounts available on a regular basis. Say, once a year. Surely that'd tell pretty much the whole picture?
Due this month, due this month! *little bit of wee*
That bloke on Twatter, wasn't it the same account who was saying that Lambert was sacked a few weeks back?
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Like Dave suggested earlier, if i knew as much as that twitter ITK claims he does, i'd be making myself a few quid out of it, not posting it on twitter to followers who i don't even know.
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Like Dave suggested earlier, if i knew as much as that twitter ITK claims he does, i'd be making myself a few quid out of it, not posting it on twitter to followers who i don't even know.
Ah clampy, where have you been all week- you have been sorely missed?:(
David nab- it was you who posted his tweet a couple of weeks ago saying he was reliable that alerted me to him - maybe not reliable on villa news as we might hope then?
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In terms of "points per game managed" in the top four divisions this season, Lambert ranks 106 out of 122
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21372441
Have the other 16 below him all been sacked?
They've all been in charge for much less games
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If only there were some sort of legislation whereby the club had to make its accounts available on a regular basis. Say, once a year. Surely that'd tell pretty much the whole picture?
Due this month, due this month! *little bit of wee*
That bloke on Twatter, wasn't it the same account who was saying that Lambert was sacked a few weeks back?
Yup said RDM was in talks with the club to replace him
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In terms of "points per game managed" in the top four divisions this season, Lambert ranks 106 out of 122
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21372441
Have the other 16 below him all been sacked?
They've all been in charge for much less games
Yes you are right - of 122 managers in the league this season there is no manager who has managed at least 25 games with a worse points per game ratio than lambert- shocking record of 0.84 points a game.
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In terms of "points per game managed" in the top four divisions this season, Lambert ranks 106 out of 122
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21372441
Have the other 16 below him all been sacked?
They've all been in charge for much less games
Yes you are right - of 122 managers in the league this season there is no manager who has managed at least 25 games with a worse points per game ratio than lambert- shocking record of 0.84 points a game.
I wonder if that's a record for any past Villa manager. I'm losing track of the horrific history we are creating this season. I get the feeling that in years to come we'll be recounting the events of this season to the next generation of Villa fans.
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I'm not sure how many more times I can take filing out of the North stand lower after the final whistle past all the singing and dancing away fans. It's my Groundhog day feeling.
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I'm not sure how many more times I can take filing out of the North stand lower after the final whistle past all the singing and dancing away fans. It's my Groundhog day feeling.
I know. You can understand the views of some fans that we might be better off in a lower division.
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It's bloody horrible going past the coach park every home game, having to put a brave face on when walking past grinning away fans (or spitting, in the case of Man Utd fans)
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It's been the same for years hasn't it? Each time thinking things will improve...
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Lambert : “There’s 13 cup finals for us to play but the way the lads are playing right now, they can do that.
“A lot depends on what other teams do. You can only do your job. There’s no grey area — you know what you have to do.
“I’m not going to talk about relegation, it’s a defeatest attitude. If you do that, it brings negativity and there’s 13 games left to go.
“It would be different if there was only three games to go. You’d think ‘We’re definitely in this’.”
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4786047/Lambert-Villa-must-produce-best-run-in-THREE-YEARS.html#ixzz2KOUREhEb
Actually Lambert We’re definitely in it
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You can only do your job- well please do it then lambert, 2 points from the last 24 is hardly inspiring , time to sink or swim!
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It's been the same for years hasn't it? Each time thinking things will improve...
It's the occasional optimism that'll do us all in eventually. Time for a different approach......
Any Aston Villa manager with the audacity to have us placed higher than sixth in the table at any point after mid-September should be immediately relieved of his duties.
Any Aston Villa manager shall be permitted ONE cup semi-final. Any subsequent quarter-final shall be played with his P45 on constant display on the big screens.
No Aston Villa manager shall be permitted to allow the team to go on an unbeaten run of more than four games, UNLESS all subsequent games are drab goalless draws.
There'll be a lot more sighing, but that'll pass eventually.
And I might live a little longer.
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You can only do your job- well please do it then lambert, 2 points from the last 24 is hardly inspiring , time to sink or swim!
I think you need to check your figures. We've drawn three of the last five. Not great, but if you're going to keep quoting stats it might be worth checking them first.
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You can only do your job- well please do it then lambert, 2 points from the last 24 is hardly inspiring , time to sink or swim!
I think you need to check your figures. We've drawn three of the last five. Not great, but if you're going to keep quoting stats it might be worth checking them first.
Sorry chris 3 from 24 it is then. No question that tomorrow is a huge huge game and we must win .
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Lambert : “There’s 13 cup finals for us to play but the way the lads are playing right now, they can do that.
“A lot depends on what other teams do. You can only do your job. There’s no grey area — you know what you have to do.
“I’m not going to talk about relegation, it’s a defeatest attitude. If you do that, it brings negativity and there’s 13 games left to go.
“It would be different if there was only three games to go. You’d think ‘We’re definitely in this’.”
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4786047/Lambert-Villa-must-produce-best-run-in-THREE-YEARS.html#ixzz2KOUREhEb
Actually Lambert We’re definitely in it
heh. So he wants 6 wins!? Ignoring the fact its highly unlikely we'd need 39 points to stay up, what a way to take all the pressure of the players by setting them a batshit mad target. All those anti-lambchops on here must at least concede this is a man-management masterstroke from one of the country's most promising managers *cough*
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Lambert : “There’s 13 cup finals for us to play but the way the lads are playing right now, they can do that.
“A lot depends on what other teams do. You can only do your job. There’s no grey area — you know what you have to do.
“I’m not going to talk about relegation, it’s a defeatest attitude. If you do that, it brings negativity and there’s 13 games left to go.
“It would be different if there was only three games to go. You’d think ‘We’re definitely in this’.”
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4786047/Lambert-Villa-must-produce-best-run-in-THREE-YEARS.html#ixzz2KOUREhEb
Actually Lambert We’re definitely in it
heh. So he wants 6 wins!? Ignoring the fact its highly unlikely we'd need 39 points to stay up, what a way to take all the pressure of the players by setting them a batshit mad target. All those anti-lambchops on here must at least concede this is a man-management masterstroke from one of the country's most promising managers *cough*
Sorry, who's conceding what? And there's no need to type out your ailments.
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Lambert : “There’s 13 cup finals for us to play but the way the lads are playing right now, they can do that.
“A lot depends on what other teams do. You can only do your job. There’s no grey area — you know what you have to do.
“I’m not going to talk about relegation, it’s a defeatest attitude. If you do that, it brings negativity and there’s 13 games left to go.
“It would be different if there was only three games to go. You’d think ‘We’re definitely in this’.”
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4786047/Lambert-Villa-must-produce-best-run-in-THREE-YEARS.html#ixzz2KOUREhEb
Actually Lambert We’re definitely in it
heh. So he wants 6 wins!? Ignoring the fact its highly unlikely we'd need 39 points to stay up, what a way to take all the pressure of the players by setting them a batshit mad target. All those anti-lambchops on here must at least concede this is a man-management masterstroke from one of the country's most promising managers *cough*
Only if you're naive enough to think that what is said in a press conference constitutes "management. The truth is you'd have a go at him whatever he said; if he says nothing he's attacked, if he tries to be positive he's attacked.
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Just being realsitic. when you haven't won in the league for 8 games, then setting yourself a target of winning every other game till the end of the season seems a bit daft IMO.
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Just being realsitic. when you haven't won in the league for 8 games, then setting yourself a target of winning every other game till the end of the season seems a bit daft IMO.
I'd guess they'll be trying to win every game.
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Just being realsitic. when you haven't won in the league for 8 games, then setting yourself a target of winning every other game till the end of the season seems a bit daft IMO.
So you think they should set themselves a target of not winning games? Seems an odd approach to me.
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Just being realsitic. when you haven't won in the league for 8 games, then setting yourself a target of winning every other game till the end of the season seems a bit daft IMO.
So you think they should set themselves a target of not winning games? Seems an odd approach to me.
He shouldn't be setting a target at all. Especially a barmy one and more to the point much better than we need to do to stay-up
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Just being realsitic. when you haven't won in the league for 8 games, then setting yourself a target of winning every other game till the end of the season seems a bit daft IMO.
So you think they should set themselves a target of not winning games? Seems an odd approach to me.
He shouldn't be setting a target at all. Especially a barmy one and more to the point much better than we need to do to stay-up
I may have missed something here but I can't see anywhere in his quotes where he says we need to win 6 games? Just comments you'd expect from a manager involved in the situation we're in.
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The point is, that for those of you looking for a way to criticise, anything he says will be dismissed. Even if you agree with it you'll say, "don't tell me, show me". They have to do these press conferences so we're always going to get to read their comments, but it's naive to take them as anything meaningful.
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The point is, that for those of you looking for a way to criticise, anything he says will be dismissed. Even if you agree with it you'll say, "don't tell me, show me". They have to do these press conferences so we're always going to get to read their comments, but it's naive to take them as anything meaningful.
Thats very true chris. Even if he was good communicator i doubt he'd be getting praise for his words after the current run but he doesn't help himself with this sort of thing.. Can you pinpoint 6 games we're going to win on current form? And presumably he's expecting to draw some games as well? We could even sneak into Europe if his predictions are right
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The point is, that for those of you looking for a way to criticise, anything he says will be dismissed. Even if you agree with it you'll say, "don't tell me, show me". They have to do these press conferences so we're always going to get to read their comments, but it's naive to take them as anything meaningful.
Thats very true chris. Even if he was good communicator i doubt he'd be getting praise for his words after the current run but he doesn't help himself with this sort of thing.. Can you pinpoint 6 games we're going to win on current form? And presumably he's expecting to draw some games as well? We could even sneak into Europe if his predictions are right
Can you pinpoint to me where he has actually said we need to win 6 games?
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The point is, that for those of you looking for a way to criticise, anything he says will be dismissed. Even if you agree with it you'll say, "don't tell me, show me". They have to do these press conferences so we're always going to get to read their comments, but it's naive to take them as anything meaningful.
I take this on board chris, for some lambert has burnt his bridges and there will be a tendency to jump on him at every chance - that is life .
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I think personally it's a case of taking one game at a time. I've been encouraged by the last few perfomances (first half against Newcastle aside). It can be done.
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I think personally it's a case of taking one game at a time. I've been encouraged by the last few perfomances (first half against Newcastle aside). It can be done.
It can be done but now is the time for results, we cannot keep losing leads and dropping points - tomorrow i will take a 1-0 win as scrappy as hell and an awful display.
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The point is, that for those of you looking for a way to criticise, anything he says will be dismissed. Even if you agree with it you'll say, "don't tell me, show me". They have to do these press conferences so we're always going to get to read their comments, but it's naive to take them as anything meaningful.
Thats very true chris. Even if he was good communicator i doubt he'd be getting praise for his words after the current run but he doesn't help himself with this sort of thing.. Can you pinpoint 6 games we're going to win on current form? And presumably he's expecting to draw some games as well? We could even sneak into Europe if his predictions are right
Can you pinpoint to me where he has actually said we need to win 6 games?
well seeing every preview in the newspapers mentions Lambert wants 5 or 6 wins i think its safe to say he's said something
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I think personally it's a case of taking one game at a time. I've been encouraged by the last few perfomances (first half against Newcastle aside). It can be done.
It can be done but now is the time for results, we cannot keep losing leads and dropping points - tomorrow i will take a 1-0 win as scrappy as hell and an awful display.
Of course I'll take that all season now.
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well seeing every preview in the newspapers mentions Lambert wants 5 or 6 wins i think its safe to say he's said something
I've got to be honest, I think this a ridiculous way of looking at it. Do you not think if he had actually said it they would have printed the quotes? What he has said is all there in the interview and it's certainly not what you are having a pop at him for is it? Newspapers do this sort of stuff all the time, then people like you fall for it and spout it as fact. Find the qoutes you're referring to as fact and I'll believe they're telling the truth.
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well seeing every preview in the newspapers mentions Lambert wants 5 or 6 wins i think its safe to say he's said something
I've got to be honest, I think this a ridiculous way of looking at it. Do you not think if he had actually said it they would have printed the quotes? What he has said is all there in the interview and it's certainly not what you are having a pop at him for is it? Newspapers do this sort of stuff all the time, then people like you fall for it and spout it as fact. Find the qoutes you're referring to as fact and I'll believe they're telling the truth.
It suits the agenda of a wind up merchant.
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I think personally it's a case of taking one game at a time. I've been encouraged by the last few perfomances (first half against Newcastle aside). It can be done.
Sadly i don't think it can. I can't remember the last game where on the balance of play we deserved to win. The last few performances have been improved but still didn't make us the better side. Draws are as good as we're worth.
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I think personally it's a case of taking one game at a time. I've been encouraged by the last few perfomances (first half against Newcastle aside). It can be done.
Sadly i don't think it can. I can't remember the last game where on the balance of play we deserved to win. The last few performances have been improved but still didn't make us the better side. Draws are as good as we're worth.
I agree to an extent. It can be done though if we can tighten things up at the back (which is obvious i know). We need to go back to defending how we did when we were 3-1 up at Anfield. We were unlucky at Swansea and Everton not to take all three points.
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I think personally it's a case of taking one game at a time. I've been encouraged by the last few perfomances (first half against Newcastle aside). It can be done.
Sadly i don't think it can. I can't remember the last game where on the balance of play we deserved to win. The last few performances have been improved but still didn't make us the better side. Draws are as good as we're worth.
I agree to an extent. It can be done though if we can tighten things up at the back (which is obvious i know). We need to go back to defending how we did when we were 3-1 up at Anfield. We were unlucky at Swansea and Everton not to take all three points.
Its happened for years though clampy, even in the o neill days we seemed to let in quite a few late goals - i dread the last 10 minutes even with a 2 goal i never feel safe.
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I think Lambert should only target winning the next game.
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I think personally it's a case of taking one game at a time. I've been encouraged by the last few perfomances (first half against Newcastle aside). It can be done.
Sadly i don't think it can. I can't remember the last game where on the balance of play we deserved to win. The last few performances have been improved but still didn't make us the better side. Draws are as good as we're worth.
I agree to an extent. It can be done though if we can tighten things up at the back (which is obvious i know). We need to go back to defending how we did when we were 3-1 up at Anfield. We were unlucky at Swansea and Everton not to take all three points.
Unlucky in the sense that we conceded late.
But we didn't dominate either of those games. There haven't been many (if any) games in this Godawful run where we've been the better side over the majority of the match -that's the concern for me.
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well seeing every preview in the newspapers mentions Lambert wants 5 or 6 wins i think its safe to say he's said something
I've got to be honest, I think this a ridiculous way of looking at it. Do you not think if he had actually said it they would have printed the quotes? What he has said is all there in the interview and it's certainly not what you are having a pop at him for is it? Newspapers do this sort of stuff all the time, then people like you fall for it and spout it as fact. Find the qoutes you're referring to as fact and I'll believe they're telling the truth.
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*sigh* From the mail
"A lot is going to depend on what other teams do, but i think five or 6 wins yes" said Lambert.
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I think personally it's a case of taking one game at a time. I've been encouraged by the last few perfomances (first half against Newcastle aside). It can be done.
Sadly i don't think it can. I can't remember the last game where on the balance of play we deserved to win. The last few performances have been improved but still didn't make us the better side. Draws are as good as we're worth.
I agree to an extent. It can be done though if we can tighten things up at the back (which is obvious i know). We need to go back to defending how we did when we were 3-1 up at Anfield. We were unlucky at Swansea and Everton not to take all three points.
Unlucky in the sense that we conceded late.
But we didn't dominate either of those games. There haven't been many (if any) games in this Godawful run where we've been the better side over the majority of the match -that's the concern for me.
Yes, we seem to be only able to play one half. Against Everton though it seemed a bit more of a rounded display which was good to see.
The defeats against Wigan and Southampton really buggered things up for us.
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well seeing every preview in the newspapers mentions Lambert wants 5 or 6 wins i think its safe to say he's said something
I've got to be honest, I think this a ridiculous way of looking at it. Do you not think if he had actually said it they would have printed the quotes? What he has said is all there in the interview and it's certainly not what you are having a pop at him for is it? Newspapers do this sort of stuff all the time, then people like you fall for it and spout it as fact. Find the qoutes you're referring to as fact and I'll believe they're telling the truth.
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*sigh* From the mail
"A lot is going to depend on what other teams do, but i think five or 6 wins yes" said Lambert.
I know how you feel gnasher- just to confirm from official website also-
Paul Lambert has backed his players to pick up the "five or six" wins he thinks they need from their thirteen "cup finals."
"They know themselves, we've spoken about it. They know exactly what they've got to do.
"It's never wavered, my belief, whether people have said things or not. I've got to have that belief with the way I think about the team.
"That's the belief we will get out of it. Everyone is focused on getting out of it and we'll do that to the end.
"Even though we've had some heavy knocks, the lads have kept their heads up and kept their dignity which I think is a great thing as well. But we have to keep going and get out of it."
He said: "We need five or six wins. We are going to have to. The way they are playing just at the minute, they can do that. There's no grey area. You know what you have to go and do. There are 13 cup finals for us to play.
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Well he's right 6 wins would do it, but getting them will be very tough. It's up to the defence and midfield to tighten up.
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He said: "We need five or six wins. We are going to have to. The way they are playing just at the minute, they can do that. There's no grey area. You know what you have to go and do. There are 13 cup finals for us to play.
If only we had played our two cup semi-finals like cup finals then we would have been playing in a real cup final as well as these other 13 cup finals.
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He said: "We need five or six wins. We are going to have to. The way they are playing just at the minute, they can do that. There's no grey area. You know what you have to go and do. There are 13 cup finals for us to play.
If only we had played our two cup semi-finals like cup finals then we would have been playing in a real cup final as well as these other 13 cup finals.
How very true sir.
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well seeing every preview in the newspapers mentions Lambert wants 5 or 6 wins i think its safe to say he's said something
I've got to be honest, I think this a ridiculous way of looking at it. Do you not think if he had actually said it they would have printed the quotes? What he has said is all there in the interview and it's certainly not what you are having a pop at him for is it? Newspapers do this sort of stuff all the time, then people like you fall for it and spout it as fact. Find the qoutes you're referring to as fact and I'll believe they're telling the truth.
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*sigh* From the mail
"A lot is going to depend on what other teams do, but i think five or 6 wins yes" said Lambert.
No need to sigh Greg, my apologies. It's a shame you didn't put these quotes up earlier when asked instead of saying "he must have said something". However, I notice you've chosen to ignore the fact that he has actually said we need 5 or 6 wins, when you're original point was that he said we needed 6 wins, no less.
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If I lookout the table, I think there's a chance to stay up.
If I think about it in terms of five or six wins, I genuinely can't see us getting anything like that.
When was our last league win? Reading? Anfield? It seems ages ago.
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4 wins and 4 draws might just about be enough. That may be achievable whereas 5/6 wins is a big, big ask.
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4 wins and 4 draws might just about be enough. That may be achievable whereas 5/6 wins is a big, big ask.
That would give us 37 but with our goal difference being so bad i think we need to aim for more.
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4 wins and 4 draws might just about be enough. That may be achievable whereas 5/6 wins is a big, big ask.
yep, that's my thinking. Any sort of half decent form could get us that i reckon. Certainly before the last month or so i would have said that was gettable.
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We should have won every game so far this year.
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We should have won every game so far this year.
But didn't.
And that's our problem.
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We're stringing out the hope.
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I see Harry Redknapp just came out with "the only way out of it is just to keep going". He's clearly been watching Lambert's press conferences too much.
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We should have won every game so far this year.
But didn't.
And that's our problem.
Sitting back and defending the penalty area is the mistake Lambert makes time after time.
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We should have won every game so far this year.
But didn't.
And that's our problem.
Sitting back and defending the penalty area is the mistake Lambert makes time after time.
I reckon it's the mistake the players make, you can see him urging them forward but their nervousness makes them hesitant. You see it with most teams when they're under pressure, the less confident they are the more pronounced it is.
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We should have won every game so far this year.
But didn't.
And that's our problem.
Sitting back and defending the penalty area is the mistake Lambert makes time after time.
I reckon it's the mistake the players make, you can see him urging them forward but their nervousness makes them hesitant. You see it with most teams when they're under pressure, the less confident they are the more pronounced it is.
Exactly. I doubt he would deliberately go out of his way to tell them to drop deep as we can't defend for ass. It makes no sense. It's just a natural reaction from the players to hold onto what we've got.
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I think one win will be all it takes to get some confidence back into the side. And I think tomorrow could see that victory. Relegation? Leave that talk to the Chicken Lickens.
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We should have won every game so far this year.
But didn't.
And that's our problem.
Sitting back and defending the penalty area is the mistake Lambert makes time after time.
I reckon it's the mistake the players make, you can see him urging them forward but their nervousness makes them hesitant. You see it with most teams when they're under pressure, the less confident they are the more pronounced it is.
Exactly. I doubt he would deliberately go out of his way to tell them to drop deep as we can't defend for ass. It makes no sense. It's just a natural reaction from the players to hold onto what we've got.
It seems we have been doing this for how long - 10 years? That's a lot of different managers.
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It seems we have been doing this for how long - 10 years? That's a lot of different managers.
I don't think we're the only side in 10 years that have sat back and defended a lead when playing against teams of similar or superior ability. It's just the way the game works and the way humans work.
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I think one win will be all it takes to get some confidence back into the side. And I think tomorrow could see that victory. Relegation? Leave that talk to the Chicken Lickens.
Spot on. Relegation talk is for tossers.
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It seems we have been doing this for how long - 10 years? That's a lot of different managers.
I don't think we're the only side in 10 years that have sat back and defended a lead when playing against teams of similar or superior ability. It's just the way the game works and the way humans work.
This. To carry on attacking when leading is nice in theory, but very often your ability to keep a lead depends on your ability to defend. I realise that a lot of this is about psychology and confidence, but I cannot help but think that the players would have been more confident in their defending in games if they received better coaching and clear instructions when training.
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It seems we have been doing this for how long - 10 years? That's a lot of different managers.
I don't think we're the only side in 10 years that have sat back and defended a lead when playing against teams of similar or superior ability. It's just the way the game works and the way humans work.
This. To carry on attacking when leading is nice in theory, but very often your ability to keep a lead depends on your ability to defend. I realise that a lot of this is about psychology and confidence, but I cannot help but think that the players would have been more confident in their defending in games if they received better coaching and clear instructions when training.
So much is abundantly clear.
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I think one win will be all it takes to get some confidence back into the side. And I think tomorrow could see that victory. Relegation? Leave that talk to the Chicken Lickens.
Spot on. Relegation talk is for tossers.
Villa are 19th in the table. When would it be an appropriate time to discuss relegation?
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244 in and 246 out. Closest it has been since the Newcastle game. How will it be later this afternoon?
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4 wins and 4 draws might just about be enough. That may be achievable whereas 5/6 wins is a big, big ask.
That would give us 37 but with our goal difference being so bad i think we need to aim for more.
I think 39 with our current GD is needed.
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4 wins and 4 draws might just about be enough. That may be achievable whereas 5/6 wins is a big, big ask.
That would give us 37 but with our goal difference being so bad i think we need to aim for more.
I think 39 with our current GD is needed.
What about 12 draws and one win?
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5 or 6 wins from 13 games is a lot to ask when we've only won 4 all season
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What we all need to remember is there is only a couple of pts between the bottom 4. So the other teams may require 5/6 wins as well. We may have only won 4 all season but Wigan and Reading have only won 5.
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What we all need to remember is there is only a couple of pts between the bottom 4. So the other teams may require 5/6 wins as well. We may have only won 4 all season but Wigan and Reading have only won 5.
Reading have taken 10 points from the last 5 games and won 3 of them, we have only won 3 of our last 20 - we must turn it around starting today .
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It's a dead heat! The fix is in: I declare shenanigans.
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just voted out. Changed my mind with the failure to sign a defender. In the world of football, are you telling me that there is not a 29-33 year old experienced centre back sitting on the bench or the club wanting to get off wage bill, even for just 6 months?
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I only voted in because its too late to change manager now. It's not a vote of confidence.
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It seems we have been doing this for how long - 10 years? That's a lot of different managers.
I don't think we're the only side in 10 years that have sat back and defended a lead when playing against teams of similar or superior ability. It's just the way the game works and the way humans work.
This. To carry on attacking when leading is nice in theory, but very often your ability to keep a lead depends on your ability to defend. I realise that a lot of this is about psychology and confidence, but I cannot help but think that the players would have been more confident in their defending in games if they received better coaching and clear instructions when training.
For years we have played counter-attacking football with the threat being when you break fast. Opposition teams always have this in mind and do not over commit. Some of the reasons for this are that we have not had quality creative midfield players who can put their foot on the ball and we compensate for average defenders by playing an extra central defender type of player at fullback or in midfield.
Once you stop looking to counter-attack you allow the opposition to throw everything at you. In our case, it takes away our strength and exposes our weakness. With the players we have, I think we need to keep on trying to attack from the first minute to the last to play the game away from our defence. Also, as somebodey else commented, try and play the game further up the field.
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If we lose today he should go immediately. We'd need a new man in sharpish. It might be too little too late, but I'd rather gamble on a new man than gamble on PL turning it around.
He should be playing for his job here today.
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If we lose today he should go immediately. We'd need a new man in sharpish. It might be too little too late, but I'd rather gamble on a new man than gamble on PL turning it around.
He should be playing for his job here today.
Who would you have as a replacement - realistically?
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If we lose today he should go immediately. We'd need a new man in sharpish. It might be too little too late, but I'd rather gamble on a new man than gamble on PL turning it around.
He should be playing for his job here today.
Who would you have as a replacement - realistically?
If we spend the money we might be able to tempt a good foreign coach to be an interim. Or domestically I'd probably take Curbishly's experience at the moment. Not brilliant but he couldn't possibly do any worse, so I'd give it a try. Maybe even JG as well. I dunno. Are there any international managers who might, if price be right, be willing to split the job with ours for the next 3 months whilst there's not many qualification games to distract. Louis Van Gaal comes to mind. Sven will do anything for a few bob, maybe 3 months here could be worked out. Granted he's not covered himself in glory in recent years, but he's got a lot of knowledge and could organise us.
Like I say, things can't get worse and if they show no signs of improving under PL, then I'd move now. If we end up down it won't be because we switched managers.
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If we lose today he should go immediately. We'd need a new man in sharpish. It might be too little too late, but I'd rather gamble on a new man than gamble on PL turning it around.
He should be playing for his job here today.
Who would you have as a replacement - realistically?
If we spend the money we might be able to tempt a good foreign coach to be an interim. Or domestically I'd probably take Curbishly's experience at the moment. Not brilliant but he couldn't possibly do any worse, so I'd give it a try. Maybe even JG as well. I dunno. Are there any international managers who might, if price be right, be willing to split the job with ours for the next 3 months whilst there's not many qualification games to distract. Louis Van Gaal comes to mind. Sven will do anything for a few bob, maybe 3 months here could be worked out. Granted he's not covered himself in glory in recent years, but he's got a lot of knowledge and could organise us.
Like I say, things can't get worse and if they show no signs of improving under PL, then I'd move now. If we end up down it won't be because we switched managers.
Sven you must be fucking joking. JG the same.
Curbs maybe as an interim / caretaker I'll grant you.
LVG - I said realistically.
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Job safe for now.
N'Zogbia is hitting form at the right time, and Benteke is on fire too. Players are hitting form at the right time for PL now. Defenisively we're still shambolic though. Not bad today but we almost still blew it.
We just look like we've got goals in us now, which might be enough to see us through. There's enough attacking talent in our side to pull us clear, hopefully, with games to spare.
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Bowery shouldn't be starting for us, he might go on to be ok but he should never at the moment.
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At the end of the day the guy is a good manager, we just don't have the players to compete higher up the league but it's in no way his fault. Regarding the parts he can influence he got his team selection spot on today.
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At the end of the day the guy is a good manager, we just don't have the players to compete higher up the league but it's in no way his fault. Regarding the parts he can influence he got his team selection spot on today.
Agreed.
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244 in and 246 out. Closest it has been since the Newcastle game. How will it be later this afternoon?
The crazy thing is though given where we are and what has happened it should be more one sided. It isn't because there are numerous people with fence posts up their arse. I was delighted we got him, I want him to succeed, I really do, but things have to start to improve. Basic things haven't improved which has made things worse than they need to be. That's the most frustrating thing for me. Today really helps, but on any other day this season we'd have conceded again. We didn't today thankfully.
I can't decide categorically one way or another to be honest, and I do know constant change doesn't help. But he has to show he's learning from his mistakes and I'm entirely convinced he has.
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244 in and 246 out. Closest it has been since the Newcastle game. How will it be later this afternoon?
The crazy thing is though given where we are and what has happened it should be more one sided. It isn't because there are numerous people with fence posts up their arse. I was delighted we got him, I want him to succeed, I really do, but things have to start to improve. Basic things haven't improved which has made things worse than they need to be. That's the most frustrating thing for me. Today really helps, but on any other day this season we'd have conceded again. We didn't today thankfully.
I can't decide categorically one way or another to be honest, and I do know constant change doesn't help. But he has to show he's learning from his mistakes and I'm entirely convinced he has.
There is a big case for booting him out based on a mixture of rubbish and embarrasing results the like of which we have never seen and gross naievity.
That said the case for him staying is the fucking buffoons who would be chosing the replacements. They dug up (not quite literally) an old French has been who was never that good in the first place and then made the biggest fucking piss poor decision in 25 years in hiring McRelegation.
Lots of shit and or has beens or never gonna be's would be the candidates and it wouldn't be a good list.
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At the end of the day the guy is a good manager, we just don't have the players to compete higher up the league but it's in no way his fault. Regarding the parts he can influence he got his team selection spot on today.
I thoght bowery was a strange choice and having been a target man at chesterfield he was playing a role today that didnt suit him and his touch wasnt good enough- we looked better with dawkins .
The result however is all that mattered today.
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At the end of the day the guy is a good manager, we just don't have the players to compete higher up the league but it's in no way his fault. Regarding the parts he can influence he got his team selection spot on today.
I thoght bowery was a strange choice and having been a target man at chesterfield he was playing a role today that didnt suit him and his touch wasnt good enough- we looked better with dawkins .
The result however is all that mattered today.
I think it was more a case of Bowery being picked to combat the aeriel threat that West Ham offer. I doubt he would have played had it been Swansea for example.
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At the end of the day the guy is a good manager, we just don't have the players to compete higher up the league but it's in no way his fault. Regarding the parts he can influence he got his team selection spot on today.
I thoght bowery was a strange choice and having been a target man at chesterfield he was playing a role today that didnt suit him and his touch wasnt good enough- we looked better with dawkins .
The result however is all that mattered today.
I think it was more a case of Bowery being picked to combat the aeriel threat that West Ham offer. I doubt he would have played had it been Swansea for example.
Fair enough point jockey, the last 5 minutes were nerve wracking but we got there !
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I think it's a bit harsh to say we nearly blew it defensively today. Discounting a freak OG that had nothing to do with them, they shut out exactly the sort of big physical team you'd expect us to get murdered by, and looked OK at dead balls. Praise where praise is due.
Also a massive plus today was Clark playing well. If he can get it together at cb that could be as big as any factor in us staying up.
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That said the case for him staying is the fucking buffoons who would be chosing the replacements. They dug up (not quite literally) an old French has been who was never that good in the first place and then made the biggest fucking piss poor decision in 25 years in hiring McRelegation.
Whilst sat on the bog this morning, I was thinking about Swansea, and how they managed losing their manager last season. They went out and got a brilliant replacement in, one who would build on the work of the previous guy. Not only that, but Rodgers was an appointment building on the guy before him.
It was an ongoing process lasting several years, with good decisions made at the top, and they are now reaping the rewards.
Then I thought about our "leaders" and realised that they don't have a fraction of the nous and understanding that the Swansea people do.
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Bowery selection was not strange to me at all. Lambert was obviously going to start Gabby today so I just thought he wanted to continue with 4 forwards and Bowery looks a bit like Gabby physically even if he's even less of a goal threat.
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That said the case for him staying is the fucking buffoons who would be chosing the replacements. They dug up (not quite literally) an old French has been who was never that good in the first place and then made the biggest fucking piss poor decision in 25 years in hiring McRelegation.
Whilst sat on the bog this morning, I was thinking about Swansea, and how they managed losing their manager last season. They went out and got a brilliant replacement in, one who would build on the work of the previous guy. Not only that, but Rodgers was an appointment building on the guy before him.
It was an ongoing process lasting several years, with good decisions made at the top, and they are now reaping the rewards.
Then I thought about our "leaders" and realised that they don't have a fraction of the nous and understanding that the Swansea people do.
Swansea's MD would have been the best signing of the transfer window...
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At the end of the day the guy is a good manager, we just don't have the players to compete higher up the league but it's in no way his fault. Regarding the parts he can influence he got his team selection spot on today.
I thoght bowery was a strange choice and having been a target man at chesterfield he was playing a role today that didnt suit him and his touch wasnt good enough- we looked better with dawkins .
The result however is all that mattered today.
I think it was more a case of Bowery being picked to combat the aeriel threat that West Ham offer. I doubt he would have played had it been Swansea for example.
Fair enough point jockey, the last 5 minutes were nerve wracking but we got there !
Indeed. Even better that we don't have to suffer 2 weeks mulling over another depressing result as well! As you say, the result is all that mattered.
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That said the case for him staying is the fucking buffoons who would be chosing the replacements. They dug up (not quite literally) an old French has been who was never that good in the first place and then made the biggest fucking piss poor decision in 25 years in hiring McRelegation.
Whilst sat on the bog this morning, I was thinking about Swansea, and how they managed losing their manager last season. They went out and got a brilliant replacement in, one who would build on the work of the previous guy. Not only that, but Rodgers was an appointment building on the guy before him.
It was an ongoing process lasting several years, with good decisions made at the top, and they are now reaping the rewards.
Then I thought about our "leaders" and realised that they don't have a fraction of the nous and understanding that the Swansea people do.
Swansea's MD would have been the best signing of the transfer window...
The Albion have done something very similar in terms of decision making since they binned Captain Crutches, succession of logical appointments at the right time.
Pains me to say it but they are easily the best run club in The Midlands.
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I think one win will be all it takes to get some confidence back into the side. And I think tomorrow could see that victory. Relegation? Leave that talk to the Chicken Lickens.
Spot on. Relegation talk is for tossers.
Villa men the pair of you. I salute you both.
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Nursey reckons we're finally seeing a real Paul Lambert side:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-fans-finally-seeing-1709400?
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For those who cant access the link-
There have been a lot of false dawns at Villa this season.
None more so than Villa's opening home game of course.
Boss Paul Lambert's new-look side came out on the pitch against Everton accompanied by fireworks to usher in a new era post the unpopular Alex McLeish.
And perhaps we should have sensed it would be an anti-climax of a season when Villa duly fell behind after three minutes and were 3-0 down at the break!
Then impressive away wins at Man City in the cup and Liverpool in the Premier League promised to be catalysts only to for the fickle flames of hope to be soon extinguished.
However, the vital victory over West Ham on Sunday certainly offers evidence that the club can beat the drop after all following a campaign which has been tortuous at times.
In the short-term, the win was clearly vital as it lifted Villa out of the bottom three and was their first in the League since December 15 at Anfield.
But it was the manner of the performance which has most encouraged regular watchers of Lambert's sides.
I was speaking to one of the Scot's close mates this week and he said it was the first time he had seen Villa this season look like a Lambert side.
It made me pause for thought.
And on reflection I have to totally agree.
What do we mean when we say a Paul Lambert side?
Well, based on his success at Norwich in three different divisions with two promotions, certain traits emerged.
Essentially he likes to play high tempo attacking football with a tactical set-up that always gives him a chance of victory.
Lambert generally fielded a screen of two holding midfielders which at times enabled four players to go forward.
While at the back the no-nonsense Glaswegian wants players - as he has said repeatedly recently - to put their bodies on the line for the sake of the side.
Villa's four-man defence certainly did that against West Ham where the likes of Ron Vlaar and Nathan Baker, playing left-back, were magnificent.
They trooped off bloodied and bruised at the final whistle having giving everything.
They would have kept a clean sheet but for a freak own goal by the unfortunate Ashley Westwood.
But it did not matter in the end as Charles N'Zogbia was excellent in the hole winning a penalty and scoring a sublime free-kick.
It is great to see Lambert finally getting the best out of N'Zogbia who has been slowly growing into his free role.
He has been a big disappointment to be honest since his £9.5million move from Wigan in July 2011.
But the mercurial Frenchman is now playing and talking a good game.
I spoke to him post-match and he definitely seems fired up for the campaign which is encouraging.
At Norwich, Lambert brought the best out of play-maker Wes Hoolahan playing him in a free role off the striker at the top of the diamond.
And the position appears to suit N'Zogbia perfectly who has more pace than Hoolahan and is more mobile and dangerous.
N'Zogbia now has license to unleash his creative instincts and with Christian Benteke ahead of him Villa will always score goals.
Behind them, Fabian Delph appears to be relishing his job as a midfield enforcer.
So with everyone seemingly giving everything, Villa got the result and they really did look like a committed Lambert side as the Scot likes to fire his teams up for match-day.
Lambert does not tolerate anyone who gives anything less than 100 per cent.
So perhaps it wasn't such a surprise Stephen Ireland did not make the bench against the Hammers and is now training in the reserves.
With games against Arsenal and Man City, Villa will need more committed displays of this nature.
But I believe the signs have been there in the draw at Everton and now the win over West Ham that they will survive.... just!
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I like Lambert and think if he keeps us this year we'll do well next year.
Still don't quite get why he faffed around with 3/5 at the back for so long but as the article implies, we're starting to see a more settled team now playing in the manner I expected us to when he signed up.
Of course, if we go go down he's a useless **** and always was and should never set foot in Brum again.
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It won't convert those that want him out, but I agree with the article and think, given time, Lambert will build a good side here. Confidence is the key right now, but going forward we'll need to carefully pick the more expensive signings to improve us.
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It won't convert those that want him out, but I agree with the article and think, given time, Lambert will build a good side here. Confidence is the key right now, but going forward we'll need to carefully pick the more expensive signings to improve us.
Agreed, we just need to make sure we survive.
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Why did he have to use the fickle word?
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It won't convert those that want him out, but I agree with the article and think, given time, Lambert will build a good side here. Confidence is the key right now, but going forward we'll need to carefully pick the more expensive signings to improve us.
it's been a tough year for even the most optimistic. Most of his signings have worked out and if we do survive he simply must be backed in the summer by the board. Obviously the club still needs to rid itself of certain players to free up more salary, but at the same time we cannot stand still and hope that happens. We still need to operate as a PL football club. Lambert, I hope has learnt things and is open to doing some things differently. With a bit more experience and some key additions we should never be in this position again.
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I like Lambert and think if he keeps us this year we'll do well next year.
Still don't quite get why he faffed around with 3/5 at the back for so long but as the article implies, we're starting to see a more settled team now playing in the manner I expected us to when he signed up.
Of course, if we go go down he's a useless **** and always was and should never set foot in Brum again.
I think the 3/5 at the back was a case of getting as many bodies back as possible when we didn't have the ball as we didn't have any experience at the back due to Vlaar being out. To be fair it did work at Liverpool but ultimately our downfall during that period was I believe, down to the fact we had far too many young players playing in a position where experience counts for so much at this level.
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I like Lambert and think if he keeps us this year we'll do well next year.
Still don't quite get why he faffed around with 3/5 at the back for so long but as the article implies, we're starting to see a more settled team now playing in the manner I expected us to when he signed up.
Of course, if we go go down he's a useless **** and always was and should never set foot in Brum again.
I think the 3/5 at the back was a case of getting as many bodies back as possible when we didn't have the ball as we didn't have any experience at the back due to Vlaar being out. To be fair it did work at Liverpool but ultimately our downfall during that period was I believe, down to the fact we had far too many young players playing in a position where experience counts for so much at this level.
The formation requires the fullbacks to push right up and almost be wide midfielders. Whe done right, it's basically a 3-4-1-2 formation. Due to lack of confidence, ours didn't, and that left our poor midfield badly outnumbered.
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I like Lambert and think if he keeps us this year we'll do well next year.
Still don't quite get why he faffed around with 3/5 at the back for so long but as the article implies, we're starting to see a more settled team now playing in the manner I expected us to when he signed up.
Of course, if we go go down he's a useless **** and always was and should never set foot in Brum again.
I think the 3/5 at the back was a case of getting as many bodies back as possible when we didn't have the ball as we didn't have any experience at the back due to Vlaar being out. To be fair it did work at Liverpool but ultimately our downfall during that period was I believe, down to the fact we had far too many young players playing in a position where experience counts for so much at this level.
I'm sure you're right but there were a couple of instances where we played decently with a back four, only to switch to 3 centre-backs only to be awful again.
Secondly, our full-backs have struggled to deal with the full-back job at times so asking them to patrol the entire flank seemed optimistic at best.
I don't think we'll see that formation again though.
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Was just thinking about this now....
Just after we go back to 1-1 yesterday, a few PL's claret and blue army chants popped up around me, I stayed mute.
Am I right or wrong? My thought was the bloke's going to have to do a lot more than attempting to get a plucky draw at Arsenal after presiding over some of our worst league results in recent times and not even beating a league 2 team over two legs to get my support of him again. That and maybe relegating us.
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Was just thinking about this now....
Just after we go back to 1-1 yesterday, a few PL's claret and blue army chants popped up around me, I stayed mute.
Am I right or wrong? My thought was the bloke's going to have to do a lot more than attempting to get a plucky draw at Arsenal after presiding over some of our worst league results in recent times and not even beating a league 2 team over two legs to get my support of him again. That and maybe relegating us.
I think you were right to stay mute, as did I (frankly I knew what was coming in any event). I sincerely believe that PL will go down in history as the worst Villa manager ever. Given that Lerner has disengaged I think he will continue to employ Lambert at least until the end of his contract whatever happens on the pitch and in the league. Successive relegations is a distinct possibility.
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Theres something about a bloke in a tracksuit and wearing glasses that looks wrong.
Lambert justs looks scruffy on the bench.
What he should do is adopt the Sir Alex hard man style. The black coat, the zip up black jumper. The coat no doubt contains a rubber cosh for intimidating the fourth official....not that he needs that of course...the Gorbals verbals will do nicely.
But Lambert just looks nervous and worried throughout each match.
He needs to exude an air of authority.
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Theres something about a bloke in a tracksuit and wearing glasses that looks wrong.
Lambert justs looks scruffy on the bench.
What he should do is adopt the Sir Alex hard man style. The black coat, the zip up black jumper. The coat no doubt contains a rubber cosh for intimidating the fourth official....not that he needs that of course...the Gorbals verbals will do nicely.
But Lambert just looks nervous and worried throughout each match.
He needs to exude an air of authority.
For me, it's a case of either him not having the players to fit his preferred system or his preferred system not being flexible enough for the players he picks. If it starts to come good I think it'll be a case of dumb luck rather than sound judgement, because Lambert certainly doesn't have it in him to change his tactics or his players to get the right results. That we're seeing the best of N'Zogbia now is a case in point - it must have been obvious to everyone at the club that a free role was best for him, based on the Manchester City cup-tie. It took Lambert half a season to remember.
I hate saying this, because I'm sick of Villa not having managerial stability, but I just can't see it working for Lambert at Villa.
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Successive relegations is a distinct possibility.
Crikey, talk about hyperbole.
We haven't even had the first one yet, and you're already predicting the one after?
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Theres something about a bloke in a tracksuit and wearing glasses that looks wrong.
Lambert justs looks scruffy on the bench.
What he should do is adopt the Sir Alex hard man style. The black coat, the zip up black jumper. The coat no doubt contains a rubber cosh for intimidating the fourth official....not that he needs that of course...the Gorbals verbals will do nicely.
But Lambert just looks nervous and worried throughout each match.
He needs to exude an air of authority.
It dosen't really matter. TSM and O'dreary were regular suit wearers.
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I'd have a bloke wearing a Bernie Clifton style ostrich outfit on the touch line if it meant us staying up. In fact I'd take it even if we went down, at least we would have a laugh.
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Great idea. Bernie Cliftons still going strong perhaps we could hire him?
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Successive relegations is a distinct possibility.
Crikey, talk about hyperbole.
We haven't even had the first one yet, and you're already predicting the one after?
I am a truly miserable bastard and even I think we can hack it in the Championship.
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If we're skint now, we're not going to have a pot to piss in in the Championship.
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We won't really need a huge pot to piss in in the championship.
Whilst I am as resigned as anyone to our relegation this season - we've got a championship squad ,and that's where we'll end up - it is a championship squad, not a league one squad, and the two successive relegations thing really is pathetic nonsense.
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Yes, it is. I am still clinging on to hope that we will survive this season. Three from four. Possibly five.
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With the obvious exception of Benteke and probably N'Zogbia, how many of our our regular starting 11 will be hotly pursued by other premier league teams?
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Guzan.
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Worse case scenario for me is getting relegated and giving him the chance to get us up again. Sort of thing Blackburn would do. If he keeps us up then i suppose he could justify another go but otherwise he needs to be binned in May.
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Worse case scenario for me is getting relegated and giving him the chance to get us up again. Sort of thing Blackburn would do. If he keeps us up then i suppose he could justify another go but otherwise he needs to be binned in May.
Spot on, dreadful season and he has to take a big chunk of the blame.
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Worse case scenario for me is getting relegated and giving him the chance to get us up again. Sort of thing Blackburn would do. If he keeps us up then i suppose he could justify another go but otherwise he needs to be binned in May.
Given the way they've lurched about from one extreme to the other with recent appointments wouldn't we better sticking with someone with a proven record of promotions rather than risk what they might do next?
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Worse case scenario for me is getting relegated and giving him the chance to get us up again. Sort of thing Blackburn would do. If he keeps us up then i suppose he could justify another go but otherwise he needs to be binned in May.
Given the way they've lurched about from one extreme to the other with recent appointments wouldn't we better sticking with someone with a proven record of promotions rather than risk what they might do next?
Rather risk the odds of them making a bad appointment than sticking with a proven one. They were hardly alone in thinking he'd be okay anyway. As for Lambert's track record, Graham Turner managed a few promotions before and after managing us and you wouldn't have kept him would you?
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Difference with Graham Turner is he had never managed in the top league had he? Who do you suggest we get if we get rid of Lambert?
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Difference with Graham Turner is he had never managed in the top league had he? Who do you suggest we get if we get rid of Lambert?
I keep having this conversation. If he takes us down after spending 20 odd million in the summer then his record is as poor as it gets. Nearly anyone with premiership managerial experience would be worth a try and a fair few without.
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Worse case scenario for me is getting relegated and giving him the chance to get us up again. Sort of thing Blackburn would do. If he keeps us up then i suppose he could justify another go but otherwise he needs to be binned in May.
Given the way they've lurched about from one extreme to the other with recent appointments wouldn't we better sticking with someone with a proven record of promotions rather than risk what they might do next?
Yep.
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Let's get McLeish back then.
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Let's get McLeish back then.
That doesn't even work based on a narrow interpretation of what Chris said.
That'd be even more fecking around with appointments. We can't pretend McLeish was never here, and we can't pretend he wasn't sacked.
What is definite, though, is that at this point of last season, despite being better off points wise - as we're constantly told - McLeish wouldnt have a narrow majority of people in favour of keeping him as Lambert does now.
Those people haven't all gone nuts. Maybe they too have realised that all the fucking around, lurching from one appointment to another, isn't working?
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Difference with Graham Turner is he had never managed in the top league had he? Who do you suggest we get if we get rid of Lambert?
I keep having this conversation. If he takes us down after spending 20 odd million in the summer then his record is as poor as it gets. Nearly anyone with premiership managerial experience would be worth a try and a fair few without.
From what I have read, these are pretty much one way conversations. People ask you to put a name forward but the closest you seem to have come is 'anybody but Lambert'.
Well, let's try again. Suggest a name that is, firstly, good enough and, secondly, that we could reasonably attract.
Apologies if I have missed you naming somebody.
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Sticking with Lambert isn't working either. He is absolutely chuffing dreadful, and seems almost pigheadedly unable to learn from his mistakes.
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Sticking with Lambert isn't working either. He is absolutely chuffing dreadful, and seems almost pigheadedly unable to learn from his mistakes.
To change, we'd need a persuasive option to appoint instead of him.
I can't think of any. Maybe that's because I don't fancy having Allardyce's brand of non-football associated with my club, but ideally, we'd have more than one realistic option to look at in any case.
If we get relegated, we're also going to be looking from a much more restricted range of options, which is something we can't ignore. So that means forget the likes of Allardyce, for starters.
We'd be looking for a manager with a track record of promotions. Like, err, Lambert.
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Difference with Graham Turner is he had never managed in the top league had he? Who do you suggest we get if we get rid of Lambert?
I keep having this conversation. If he takes us down after spending 20 odd million in the summer then his record is as poor as it gets. Nearly anyone with premiership managerial experience would be worth a try and a fair few without.
From what I have read, these are pretty much one way conversations. People ask you to put a name forward but the closest you seem to have come is 'anybody but Lambert'.
Well, let's try again. Suggest a name that is, firstly, good enough and, secondly, that we could reasonably attract.
Apologies if I have missed you naming somebody.
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No, I tell you what for a change. You name a premiership manager past or present who inherited a squad that cost 70m, spent another 20m on top of that and took his side down. At least we can rule that guy out (if there is one) as being too poor for us
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Have to say I'm not a fan of chopping and changing managers BUT, I was never in the Lambert fan club and I've seen very little since he joined to convince me he's going to be any good for us. Just doesn't seem to fit well with this club.
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No, I tell you what for a change. You name a premiership manager past or present who inherited a squad that cost 70m, spent another 20m on top of that and took his side down. At least we can rule that guy out (if there is one) as being too poor for us
The squad when he arrived might have cost £70m, but it certainly didn't mean it was worth it, unless you're happy to ascribe £5m of that cost to Richard Dunne, or rate Petrov as still being worth the 7m we paid for him, etc etc.
I totally get a lot of the anti-Lambert arguments, but let's not start rewriting history. At the end of last season, there wouldn't have been a single one of us who was arguing that our squad was sufficiently strong, but now it's an expensive one?
I could also point out that the squad was lopsided - even if you accept £70m, a third of that was tied up in one single player.
Besides which, if you're going to replace the bloke in the job, it's down to you to suggest someone better. The problem is that, once you get past the blood lust to see Lambert go, there really aren't any convincing suggestions, are there?
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Difference with Graham Turner is he had never managed in the top league had he? Who do you suggest we get if we get rid of Lambert?
I keep having this conversation. If he takes us down after spending 20 odd million in the summer then his record is as poor as it gets. Nearly anyone with premiership managerial experience would be worth a try and a fair few without.
From what I have read, these are pretty much one way conversations. People ask you to put a name forward but the closest you seem to have come is 'anybody but Lambert'.
Well, let's try again. Suggest a name that is, firstly, good enough and, secondly, that we could reasonably attract.
Apologies if I have missed you naming somebody.
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No, I tell you what for a change. You name a premiership manager past or present who inherited a squad that cost 70m, spent another 20m on top of that and took his side down. At least we can rule that guy out (if there is one) as being too poor for us
Lambert hasn't actually taken us down yet in case you hadn't noticed.
So anyway, how about a name from you for replacement manager?
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No, I tell you what for a change. You name a premiership manager past or present who inherited a squad that cost 70m, spent another 20m on top of that and took his side down. At least we can rule that guy out (if there is one) as being too poor for us
The squad when he arrived might have cost £70m, but it certainly didn't mean it was worth it, unless you're happy to ascribe £5m of that cost to Richard Dunne, or rate Petrov as still being worth the 7m we paid for him, etc etc.
I totally get a lot of the anti-Lambert arguments, but let's not start rewriting history. At the end of last season, there wouldn't have been a single one of us who was arguing that our squad was sufficiently strong, but now it's an expensive one?
didn't actually include Petrov but the fact remains if we go down there's a hell of a lot pf teams who have squads worth much less than Villa's and will have survived. And a lot who didn't spent 20m in the summer either
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Difference with Graham Turner is he had never managed in the top league had he? Who do you suggest we get if we get rid of Lambert?
I keep having this conversation. If he takes us down after spending 20 odd million in the summer then his record is as poor as it gets. Nearly anyone with premiership managerial experience would be worth a try and a fair few without.
From what I have read, these are pretty much one way conversations. People ask you to put a name forward but the closest you seem to have come is 'anybody but Lambert'.
Well, let's try again. Suggest a name that is, firstly, good enough and, secondly, that we could reasonably attract.
Apologies if I have missed you naming somebody.
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No, I tell you what for a change. You name a premiership manager past or present who inherited a squad that cost 70m, spent another 20m on top of that and took his side down. At least we can rule that guy out (if there is one) as being too poor for us
Need some time to carry out a bit of research.
Whilst I am doing that, perhaps you could answer my question rather than replying with another question. Shouldn't take you too long as you already know the answer, don't you? You do, don't you?
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Difference with Graham Turner is he had never managed in the top league had he? Who do you suggest we get if we get rid of Lambert?
I keep having this conversation. If he takes us down after spending 20 odd million in the summer then his record is as poor as it gets. Nearly anyone with premiership managerial experience would be worth a try and a fair few without.
From what I have read, these are pretty much one way conversations. People ask you to put a name forward but the closest you seem to have come is 'anybody but Lambert'.
Well, let's try again. Suggest a name that is, firstly, good enough and, secondly, that we could reasonably attract.
Apologies if I have missed you naming somebody.
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No, I tell you what for a change. You name a premiership manager past or present who inherited a squad that cost 70m, spent another 20m on top of that and took his side down. At least we can rule that guy out (if there is one) as being too poor for us
Lambert hasn't actually taken us down yet in case you hadn't noticed.
So anyway, how about a name from you for replacement manager?
I know. My arguement is IF we go down he should be replaced
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Difference with Graham Turner is he had never managed in the top league had he? Who do you suggest we get if we get rid of Lambert?
I keep having this conversation. If he takes us down after spending 20 odd million in the summer then his record is as poor as it gets. Nearly anyone with premiership managerial experience would be worth a try and a fair few without.
From what I have read, these are pretty much one way conversations. People ask you to put a name forward but the closest you seem to have come is 'anybody but Lambert'.
Well, let's try again. Suggest a name that is, firstly, good enough and, secondly, that we could reasonably attract.
Apologies if I have missed you naming somebody.
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No, I tell you what for a change. You name a premiership manager past or present who inherited a squad that cost 70m, spent another 20m on top of that and took his side down. At least we can rule that guy out (if there is one) as being too poor for us
Need some time to carry out a bit of research.
Whilst I am doing that, perhaps you could answer my question rather than replying with another question. Shouldn't take you too long as you already know the answer, don't you? You do, don't you?
You have your answer really. If we go down Lambert's record would be so appalling the list of managers who wouldn't be a better punt is so small its not worth bothering with
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It's not asking a lot, is it Greg?
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didn't actually include Petrov but the fact remains if we go down there's a hell of a lot pf teams who have squads worth much less than Villa's and will have survived. And a lot who didn't spent 20m in the summer either
Yes, I know that, but the fact is, our squad wasn't strong enough when he arrived, it wasn't strengthened enough last summer, and it wasn't strengthened at all (well, barely) in January.
If you're going to slate Lambert for taking us down (if he does), then fine, but the strength of the squad seems a pretty poor stick to beat him with when you'd struggle to find a single person on here who thinks it is particularly strong.
Now, say we sacked him, we'd need to get someone else in.
So, who?
And, more to the point, try and imagine what kind of names Randy and the Boy Blunder would have in mind?
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It's not asking a lot, is it Greg?
just name a name. any name. Its like the British winter olympic team claiming we can't get a better skier than eddie the eagle. A manager who took TSM's squad, spent another 20m and did WORSE.
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It's not asking a lot, is it Greg?
just name a name. any name. Its like the British winter olympic team claiming we can't get a better skier than eddie the eagle. A manager who took TSM's squad, spent another 20m and did WORSE.
So name a few you'd be happy to see managing us in the Championship next season if we got relegated.
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It's not asking a lot, is it Greg?
just name a name. any name. Its like the British winter olympic team claiming we can't get a better skier than eddie the eagle. A manager who took TSM's squad, spent another 20m and did WORSE.
It's impossible though, because nobody else has.
Whereas naming somebody you think could replace the man you want out is surely not too difficult?
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It's not asking a lot, is it Greg?
just name a name. any name. Its like the British winter olympic team claiming we can't get a better skier than eddie the eagle. A manager who took TSM's squad, spent another 20m and did WORSE.
So name a few you'd be happy to see managing us in the Championship next season if we got relegated.
Anyone with a better record than Lambert would have if he took us down. And that IS just about anyone. If your manager is at the bottom of the pile performance wise you don't need to be picky.
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It's not asking a lot, is it Greg?
just name a name. any name. Its like the British winter olympic team claiming we can't get a better skier than eddie the eagle. A manager who took TSM's squad, spent another 20m and did WORSE.
So name a few you'd be happy to see managing us in the Championship next season if we got relegated.
Anyone with a better record than Lambert would have if he took us down. And that IS just about anyone. If your manager is at the bottom of the pile performance wise you don't need to be picky.
Yes we know that Greg. But what names?
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If Lambert was sacked tomorrow, Greg, I think you would go for Adele.
I'm watching the Oscars, but they've had no discernible effect on me. Just saying.
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
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It's not asking a lot, is it Greg?
just name a name. any name. Its like the British winter olympic team claiming we can't get a better skier than eddie the eagle. A manager who took TSM's squad, spent another 20m and did WORSE.
So name a few you'd be happy to see managing us in the Championship next season if we got relegated.
Anyone with a better record than Lambert would have if he took us down. And that IS just about anyone. If your manager is at the bottom of the pile performance wise you don't need to be picky.
Yes we know that Greg. But what names?
There's literally dozen of names. Pick someone shit, he'd still be above Lambert record wise. TSM would be above Lambert ffs.
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There's literally dozen of names. Pick someone shit, he'd still be above Lambert record wise. TSM would be above Lambert ffs.
So name a few from the dozens you'd be happy with.
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
I know. Shocking that if Lambert takes us down they'd want to keep a manager with a worse record than anyone comparable who's managed in the prem. Its like saying "who's better than Billy McNeil?"
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
I know. Shocking that if Lambert takes us down they'd want to keep a manager with a worse record than anyone comparable who's managed in the prem. Its like saying "who's better than Billy McNeil?"
Dr Jo, Graham Taylor, David Pleat. There you go, see it's easy to name a few names.
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
I know. Shocking that if Lambert takes us down they'd want to keep a manager with a worse record than anyone comparable who's managed in the prem. Its like saying "who's better than Billy McNeil?"
Not Paul Lambert.
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
That's a fair comment, there will be, but it'll be mostly because the range of options available will be stomach churningly bad.
There are plenty of reasons to pile into Lambert, I am not kidding myself on that, but he's at least got a record of getting teams promoted.
And of at least *trying* to play football - and you know I've added that because I know you're going to throw McLeish's name back at me ;-)
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Terry Butcher might be worth a punt look at the job he has done at ICT.
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
There's a reason for that.
Namely that the few names you've garnered between you are fucking laughable.
So far we've had Keane, Allardyce and Alex McLeish.
I'd give it the Bradford boss before those three fucking stooges.
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There's literally dozen of names. Pick someone shit, he'd still be above Lambert record wise. TSM would be above Lambert ffs.
So name a few from the dozens you'd be happy with.
you name a dozen names. I'd take any of them over Lambert if we go down. You can't get worse than than the worst.
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
That's because the suggestions were Roy Keane and Easter Island Allardyce.
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There's literally dozen of names. Pick someone shit, he'd still be above Lambert record wise. TSM would be above Lambert ffs.
So name a few from the dozens you'd be happy with.
you name a dozen names. I'd take any of them over Lambert if we go down. You can't get worse than than the worst.
Defeats the point if I name them. You have said there are dozens that you would prefer to manage us if we went down. I'm asking you to name just a few of them. The only criteria is that you'd want them as manager and that it's likely they'd join us in the Championship.
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
I know. Shocking that if Lambert takes us down they'd want to keep a manager with a worse record than anyone comparable who's managed in the prem. Its like saying "who's better than Billy McNeil?"
Great.
However, that still does nothing to address the fact that, were we relegated, we'd spend the summer with Lerner and Faulkner again choosing a new manager, and doing so on the basis that we would not be in the top flight any more.
And what's more, I'd imagine Randy, having not put his hand in his pocket to buy the CB who might have kept us ip in January, is not going to suddenly start to spunk money into the club at this point, so it'll have to be a financially cheap option, as we'll have paid millions to get shot of Lambert, Culverhouse, Karsa and co, and will have to find money to make the new man available.
Serious question - Lerner will have a short list of four or five, which sort of names do you think will be on there?
If it makes it easier, I'll tell you the calibre of the sort of manager I reckon he'd have on there.
It'd be the likes of Curbishley, Phil Parkinson, Billy Davies. Those sort of names
So, unless you can come up with some more convincing names, do you really think it'd be worth spending millions of pounds to get rid of the current management team to get any of those in, and to once more go through the process of a new manager with a new style and wanting different players?
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
That's a fair comment, there will be, but it'll be mostly because the range of options available will be stomach churningly bad.
There are plenty of reasons to pile into Lambert, I am not kidding myself on that, but he's at least got a record of getting teams promoted.
And of at least *trying* to play football - and you know I've added that because I know you're going to throw McLeish's name back at me ;-)
He has a record of getting teams promoted from the Championship once. If/when he takes us down, he'll have kept Norwich up one season, and taken us down one season. With football that isn't anything special, and is only better than McLeish's, which isn't hard. Which as a Premier LEague record, isn't really much better than the likes of Phil Brown, not that I'm advocating him.
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
That's because the suggestions were Roy Keane and Easter Island Allardyce.
Don't forget the proven organiser of defences, Roberto Di Matteo.
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Adele. She can write and sing a song. good grief.
Then there's Ben Affleck. Acts, writes, directs, produces.
Laudrup. plays, manages, sings, does his own videos.
3 for a start.
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So, unless you can come up with some more convincing names, do you really think it'd be worth spending millions of pounds to get rid of the current management team to get any of those in, and to once more go through the process of a new manager with a new style and wanting different players?
You keep mentioning the fact that it would cost money to sack him, whilst apparently ignoring the cold hard truth that him taking us down will cost 10-20 times more at least.
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
That's because the suggestions were Roy Keane and Easter Island Allardyce.
Don't forget the proven organiser of defences, Roberto Di Matteo.
And McLeish. Be still my beating heart.
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There's literally dozen of names. Pick someone shit, he'd still be above Lambert record wise. TSM would be above Lambert ffs.
Oh, not everyone. Take Roy Keane for example. He's shit and below Lambert record wise in the Premier League. You wouldn't suggest him, surely?
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
That's a fair comment, there will be, but it'll be mostly because the range of options available will be stomach churningly bad.
There are plenty of reasons to pile into Lambert, I am not kidding myself on that, but he's at least got a record of getting teams promoted.
And of at least *trying* to play football - and you know I've added that because I know you're going to throw McLeish's name back at me ;-)
He has a record of getting teams promoted from the Championship once. If/when he takes us down, he'll have kept Norwich up one season, and taken us down one season. With football that isn't anything special, and is only better than McLeish's, which isn't hard. Which as a Premier LEague record, isn't really much better than the likes of Phil Brown, not that I'm advocating him.
Ah, good point.
Phil Brown. That's another name of the sort of level we'd be looking at.
Do you still want to go fishing in that particular pool?
And as for promotions, let's not forget, Lambert will at least be already at the club, will know the squad, will know how the club works (disfunctionally, mainly), and keeping him will cost nothing, whereas replacing him will cost a lot of money.
The thing people seem to not realise is that slating Lambert left, right and centre, then replying to the question with "who next" with "better than Lambert" is by their own definition, utterly meaningless and not good enough.
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So, unless you can come up with some more convincing names, do you really think it'd be worth spending millions of pounds to get rid of the current management team to get any of those in, and to once more go through the process of a new manager with a new style and wanting different players?
You keep mentioning the fact that it would cost money to sack him, whilst apparently ignoring the cold hard truth that him taking us down will cost 10-20 times more at least.
This is in the circumstances in which we're already down.
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
I know. Shocking that if Lambert takes us down they'd want to keep a manager with a worse record than anyone comparable who's managed in the prem. Its like saying "who's better than Billy McNeil?"
Great.
However, that still does nothing to address the fact that, were we relegated, we'd spend the summer with Lerner and Faulkner again choosing a new manager, and doing so on the basis that we would not be in the top flight any more.
And what's more, I'd imagine Randy, having not put his hand in his pocket to buy the CB who might have kept us ip in January, is not going to suddenly start to spunk money into the club at this point, so it'll have to be a financially cheap option, as we'll have paid millions to get shot of Lambert, Culverhouse, Karsa and co, and will have to find money to make the new man available.
Serious question - Lerner will have a short list of four or five, which sort of names do you think will be on there?
If it makes it easier, I'll tell you the calibre of the sort of manager I reckon he'd have on there.
It'd be the likes of Curbishley, Phil Parkinson, Billy Davies. Those sort of names
So, unless you can come up with some more convincing names, do you really think it'd be worth spending millions of pounds to get rid of the current management team to get any of those in, and to once more go through the process of a new manager with a new style and wanting different players?
what squad do you think Lambert will be managing? Not the present one with all its weaknesses but a far far worse one. Anyone any good will be gone so you want Lambert to take us up with the likes of Ireland and the worse youth players? He can't motivate the current rabble so you fancy his chances with the dregs of this squad and him somehow finding journeymen championship players to get us up? He'll be lucky to get the money he had at Norwich. Need a wise old hand who can motivate players, not a charisma free zone
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There's literally dozen of names. Pick someone shit, he'd still be above Lambert record wise. TSM would be above Lambert ffs.
So name a few from the dozens you'd be happy with.
you name a dozen names. I'd take any of them over Lambert if we go down. You can't get worse than than the worst.
Defeats the point if I name them. You have said there are dozens that you would prefer to manage us if we went down. I'm asking you to name just a few of them. The only criteria is that you'd want them as manager and that it's likely they'd join us in the Championship.
You missed replying with names here Greg :)
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
I know. Shocking that if Lambert takes us down they'd want to keep a manager with a worse record than anyone comparable who's managed in the prem. Its like saying "who's better than Billy McNeil?"
Great.
However, that still does nothing to address the fact that, were we relegated, we'd spend the summer with Lerner and Faulkner again choosing a new manager, and doing so on the basis that we would not be in the top flight any more.
And what's more, I'd imagine Randy, having not put his hand in his pocket to buy the CB who might have kept us ip in January, is not going to suddenly start to spunk money into the club at this point, so it'll have to be a financially cheap option, as we'll have paid millions to get shot of Lambert, Culverhouse, Karsa and co, and will have to find money to make the new man available.
Serious question - Lerner will have a short list of four or five, which sort of names do you think will be on there?
If it makes it easier, I'll tell you the calibre of the sort of manager I reckon he'd have on there.
It'd be the likes of Curbishley, Phil Parkinson, Billy Davies. Those sort of names
So, unless you can come up with some more convincing names, do you really think it'd be worth spending millions of pounds to get rid of the current management team to get any of those in, and to once more go through the process of a new manager with a new style and wanting different players?
what squad do you think Lambert will be managing? Not the present one with all its weaknesses but a far far worse one. Anyone any good will be gone so you want Lambert to take us up with the likes of Ireland and the worse youth players? He can't motivate the current rabble so you fancy his chances with the dregs of this squad and him somehow finding journeymen championship players to get us up? He'll be lucky to get the money he had at Norwich. Need a wise old hand who can motivate players, not a charisma free zone
And once more, not a single name suggested.
I didn't say "Greg, tell us how shit Lambert is" - we all know the results, we all know how shit this season has been. The question was, who is a better option if we go down than that of keeping Lambert - and it needs to be someone who is better than Lambert plus the cost of however millions of pounds to get shot of him and get the new bloke in, because it isn't going to be a zero cost option.
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
There's a reason for that.
Namely that the few names you've garnered between you are fucking laughable.
So far we've had Keane, Allardyce and Alex McLeish.
I'd give it the Bradford boss before those three fucking stooges.
You'd have to be laughably dim to interpret any of the above posts as anybody actually wanting McLeish back.
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Don't know what made me think of this:
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So, unless you can come up with some more convincing names, do you really think it'd be worth spending millions of pounds to get rid of the current management team to get any of those in, and to once more go through the process of a new manager with a new style and wanting different players?
You keep mentioning the fact that it would cost money to sack him, whilst apparently ignoring the cold hard truth that him taking us down will cost 10-20 times more at least.
This is in the circumstances in which we're already down.
Maybe if we'd replaced the incompetent, muttering clown weeks ago those circumstances wouldn't come to pass.
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
There's a reason for that.
Namely that the few names you've garnered between you are fucking laughable.
So far we've had Keane, Allardyce and Alex McLeish.
I'd give it the Bradford boss before those three fucking stooges.
You'd have to be laughably dim to interpret any of the above posts as anybody actually wanting McLeish back.
Not really. When the serious suggestions are Roy Keane and Allardyce believing they'd also be dim enough to want McLeish back as well isn't exactly a shock.
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Don't do it Greg. Any name you say will be met with hoots of derision, don't give them the satisfaction.
There's a reason for that.
Namely that the few names you've garnered between you are fucking laughable.
So far we've had Keane, Allardyce and Alex McLeish.
I'd give it the Bradford boss before those three fucking stooges.
You'd have to be laughably dim to interpret any of the above posts as anybody actually wanting McLeish back.
As my clairvoyance skills are on the wane, I had to take the one name Greg actually mentioned.
You'd have to be laughably dim to suggest Roy Keane, but hey.
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*sigh* If lambert takes us down there's literally 40 odd names, some that have already been mentioned who would on paper have a far better record than Lambert. Not many i'm particualrly enthusiastic about granted but poor is better than V.poor imo. If you are really that determined to rubbish a name then name one and i'll tell you if i'd rather have him in than lambert
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*sigh* If lambert takes us down there's literally 40 odd names, some that have already been mentioned who would on paper have a far better record than Lambert. Not many i'm particualrly enthusiastic about granted but poor is better than V.poor imo. If you are really that determined to rubbish a name then name one and i'll tell you if i'd rather have him in than lambert
Roy Keane
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Maybe if we'd replaced the incompetent, muttering clown weeks ago those circumstances wouldn't come to pass.
I disagree, but regardless of that, we didn't, did we?
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*sigh* If lambert takes us down there's literally 40 odd names, some that have already been mentioned who would on paper have a far better record than Lambert. Not many i'm particualrly enthusiastic about granted but poor is better than V.poor imo. If you are really that determined to rubbish a name then name one and i'll tell you if i'd rather have him in than lambert
So just name 3 of the 40 that you'd be okay with. That's all we ask. Once you do i'll name you 6 that I wouldn't be slashing my wrists over. How is that for a deal?
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*sigh* If lambert takes us down there's literally 40 odd names, some that have already been mentioned who would on paper have a far better record than Lambert. Not many i'm particualrly enthusiastic about granted but poor is better than V.poor imo. If you are really that determined to rubbish a name then name one and i'll tell you if i'd rather have him in than lambert
I've already said who I'd go for - Lambert - and explained why.
You keep saying Lambert is shit and no way should it be him, but can't name a single viable option.
The club could sack Lambert the day after the end of the season. Then the very next day, we'd need to start looking for a new manager. It isn't just "thank fuck he's gone, now everything will be alright", there needs to be a plan, so if you think Lambert is not the man, and you reckon there are 30 (last page) or 40 (this page) better options, surely it can't be that hard to suggest one?
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*sigh* If lambert takes us down there's literally 40 odd names, some that have already been mentioned who would on paper have a far better record than Lambert. Not many i'm particualrly enthusiastic about granted but poor is better than V.poor imo. If you are really that determined to rubbish a name then name one and i'll tell you if i'd rather have him in than lambert
Roy Keane
heh. come on now. there's limits
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The thing people seem to not realise is that slating Lambert left, right and centre, then replying to the question with "who next" with "better than Lambert" is by their own definition, utterly meaningless and not good enough.
I'd say it's a pretty good starting point, replacing an underperforming/ incompetent employee with better.
We might not be talking about the very cream, or a manager who targets CL qualification in 2/3 years anymore. But -as Greg points out- there are quite a few who would back themselves to deliver more with the squad PL inherited in the summer plus the additional £20 million+ he had to spend.
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So, unless you can come up with some more convincing names, do you really think it'd be worth spending millions of pounds to get rid of the current management team to get any of those in, and to once more go through the process of a new manager with a new style and wanting different players?
You keep mentioning the fact that it would cost money to sack him, whilst apparently ignoring the cold hard truth that him taking us down will cost 10-20 times more at least.
This is in the circumstances in which we're already down.
Maybe if we'd replaced the incompetent, muttering clown weeks ago those circumstances wouldn't come to pass.
This is a thread about Lambert, there's plenty of opportunity off topic to talk about George Osborne and the credit rating.
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*sigh* If lambert takes us down there's literally 40 odd names, some that have already been mentioned who would on paper have a far better record than Lambert. Not many i'm particualrly enthusiastic about granted but poor is better than V.poor imo. If you are really that determined to rubbish a name then name one and i'll tell you if i'd rather have him in than lambert
I've already said who I'd go for - Lambert - and explained why.
You keep saying Lambert is shit and no way should it be him, but can't name a single viable option.
The club could sack Lambert the day after the end of the season. Then the very next day, we'd need to start looking for a new manager. It isn't just "thank fuck he's gone, now everything will be alright", there needs to be a plan, so if you think Lambert is not the man, and you reckon there are 30 (last page) or 40 (this page) better options, surely it can't be that hard to suggest one?
you want me to go through nearly every manager who's been in the premiership and is still working and who hasn't taken down a squad worth 90m? Surely there must be a name who you think is shit? Just name him and he'll get my support over Lambert if we go down
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The thing people seem to not realise is that slating Lambert left, right and centre, then replying to the question with "who next" with "better than Lambert" is by their own definition, utterly meaningless and not good enough.
I'd say it's a pretty good starting point, replacing an underperforming/ incompetent employee with better.
We might not be talking about the very cream, or a manager who targets CL qualification in 2/3 years anymore. But -as Greg points out- there are quite a few who would back themselves to deliver more with the squad PL inherited in the summer plus the additional £20 million+ he had to spend.
Not sure I agree.
In one breath, Lambert is the worst manager we've ever had, in the next, "better than Lambert" is sufficient? Surely "better than Lambert" is meaningless if Lambert is so terrible?
Greg points out there are quite a few, but can't suggest a single viable name worth sacking Lambert and handing out a few more million in compensation for.
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*sigh* If lambert takes us down there's literally 40 odd names, some that have already been mentioned who would on paper have a far better record than Lambert. Not many i'm particualrly enthusiastic about granted but poor is better than V.poor imo. If you are really that determined to rubbish a name then name one and i'll tell you if i'd rather have him in than lambert
I've already said who I'd go for - Lambert - and explained why.
You keep saying Lambert is shit and no way should it be him, but can't name a single viable option.
The club could sack Lambert the day after the end of the season. Then the very next day, we'd need to start looking for a new manager. It isn't just "thank fuck he's gone, now everything will be alright", there needs to be a plan, so if you think Lambert is not the man, and you reckon there are 30 (last page) or 40 (this page) better options, surely it can't be that hard to suggest one?
you want me to go through nearly every manager who's been in the premiership and is still working and who hasn't taken down a squad worth 90m? Surely there must be a name who you think is shit? Just name him and he'll get my support over Lambert if we go down
No, I want you to name just 3 you'd be okay with.
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you want me to go through nearly every manager who's been in the premiership and is still working and who hasn't taken down a squad worth 90m? Surely there must be a name who you think is shit? Just name him and he'll get my support over Lambert if we go down
No. I don't want you to name managers who have managed to not get relegated with a squad worth £90m, at all.
I want you to suggest a few possible names to replace Lambert, should we get relegated.
Despite there apparently being 40 of them, you don't want to name a single one.
I've got a hunch on this, Greg. Call me overly suspicious, but I am starting to suspect the reason you don't want to put a few names forward is because, like me, you realise they will all be utterly shit, uninspiring lower leagues managers.
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The thing people seem to not realise is that slating Lambert left, right and centre, then replying to the question with "who next" with "better than Lambert" is by their own definition, utterly meaningless and not good enough.
I'd say it's a pretty good starting point, replacing an underperforming/ incompetent employee with better.
We might not be talking about the very cream, or a manager who targets CL qualification in 2/3 years anymore. But -as Greg points out- there are quite a few who would back themselves to deliver more with the squad PL inherited in the summer plus the additional £20 million+ he had to spend.
Not sure I agree.
In one breath, Lambert is the worst manager we've ever had, in the next, "better than Lambert" is sufficient? Surely "better than Lambert" is meaningless if Lambert is so terrible?
Greg points out there are quite a few, but can't suggest a single viable name worth sacking Lambert and handing out a few more million in compensation for.
So Steve Kean then. You would have kept him at blackburn like the owners did to save on compensation. Lambert would have a similar record to him, well worse actually.
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you want me to go through nearly every manager who's been in the premiership and is still working and who hasn't taken down a squad worth 90m? Surely there must be a name who you think is shit? Just name him and he'll get my support over Lambert if we go down
No. I don't want you to name managers who have managed to not get relegated with a squad worth £90m, at all.
I want you to suggest a few possible names to replace Lambert, should we get relegated.
Despite there apparently being 40 of them, you don't want to name a single one.
I've got a hunch on this, Greg. Call me overly suspicious, but I am starting to suspect the reason you don't want to put a few names forward is because, like me, you realise they will all be utterly shit, uninspiring lower leagues managers.
Go on then Di matteo?
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you want me to go through nearly every manager who's been in the premiership and is still working and who hasn't taken down a squad worth 90m? Surely there must be a name who you think is shit? Just name him and he'll get my support over Lambert if we go down
No. I don't want you to name managers who have managed to not get relegated with a squad worth £90m, at all.
I want you to suggest a few possible names to replace Lambert, should we get relegated.
Despite there apparently being 40 of them, you don't want to name a single one.
I've got a hunch on this, Greg. Call me overly suspicious, but I am starting to suspect the reason you don't want to put a few names forward is because, like me, you realise they will all be utterly shit, uninspiring lower leagues managers.
Go on then Di matteo?
No way can I support genetic splicing of onions and Thunderbirds puppets.
It's not natural.
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you want me to go through nearly every manager who's been in the premiership and is still working and who hasn't taken down a squad worth 90m? Surely there must be a name who you think is shit? Just name him and he'll get my support over Lambert if we go down
No. I don't want you to name managers who have managed to not get relegated with a squad worth £90m, at all.
I want you to suggest a few possible names to replace Lambert, should we get relegated.
Despite there apparently being 40 of them, you don't want to name a single one.
I've got a hunch on this, Greg. Call me overly suspicious, but I am starting to suspect the reason you don't want to put a few names forward is because, like me, you realise they will all be utterly shit, uninspiring lower leagues managers.
Go on then Di matteo?
Two issues with that.
One, last time he was managing, it was Chelsea, but now he's going to come to a Championship side? And can he organise a defence? He couldn't at Albion.
Let's have a few more, then. I don't think even Randy is thick enough to have a shortlist of one person.
I'll throw a few at you.
Phil Brown
Phil Parkinson
Billy Davies
Alan Curbishley.
Steve Bruce (although he's getting promoted, so would probably be out of our grasp)
How do those names strike you?
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you want me to go through nearly every manager who's been in the premiership and is still working and who hasn't taken down a squad worth 90m? Surely there must be a name who you think is shit? Just name him and he'll get my support over Lambert if we go down
No. I don't want you to name managers who have managed to not get relegated with a squad worth £90m, at all.
I want you to suggest a few possible names to replace Lambert, should we get relegated.
Despite there apparently being 40 of them, you don't want to name a single one.
I've got a hunch on this, Greg. Call me overly suspicious, but I am starting to suspect the reason you don't want to put a few names forward is because, like me, you realise they will all be utterly shit, uninspiring lower leagues managers.
Go on then Di matteo?
Okay that's one. How about 2 more that haven't been mentioned on here loads of times already? :P
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The thing people seem to not realise is that slating Lambert left, right and centre, then replying to the question with "who next" with "better than Lambert" is by their own definition, utterly meaningless and not good enough.
I'd say it's a pretty good starting point, replacing an underperforming/ incompetent employee with better.
We might not be talking about the very cream, or a manager who targets CL qualification in 2/3 years anymore. But -as Greg points out- there are quite a few who would back themselves to deliver more with the squad PL inherited in the summer plus the additional £20 million+ he had to spend.
Not sure I agree.
In one breath, Lambert is the worst manager we've ever had, in the next, "better than Lambert" is sufficient? Surely "better than Lambert" is meaningless if Lambert is so terrible?
Greg points out there are quite a few, but can't suggest a single viable name worth sacking Lambert and handing out a few more million in compensation for.
So Steve Kean then. You would have kept him at blackburn like the owners did to save on compensation. Lambert would have a similar record to him, well worse actually.
I don't care about Blackburn, I don't care what reasons he stayed there or didn't, I am only concerned about who you get to replace Paul Lambert.
Oh hang on, is he one of your suggestions?
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you want me to go through nearly every manager who's been in the premiership and is still working and who hasn't taken down a squad worth 90m? Surely there must be a name who you think is shit? Just name him and he'll get my support over Lambert if we go down
No. I don't want you to name managers who have managed to not get relegated with a squad worth £90m, at all.
I want you to suggest a few possible names to replace Lambert, should we get relegated.
Despite there apparently being 40 of them, you don't want to name a single one.
I've got a hunch on this, Greg. Call me overly suspicious, but I am starting to suspect the reason you don't want to put a few names forward is because, like me, you realise they will all be utterly shit, uninspiring lower leagues managers.
Go on then Di matteo?
Okay that's one. How about 2 more that haven't been mentioned on here loads of times already? :P
Steve Kean - Roy Keane dream team.
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My Forest mate loves Billy Davies. So if we did poach him I think he'd be livid. Which would amuse me as he took the piss out of McLeish last year, but went very quiet about him recently. No idea why.
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Steve Kean - Roy Keane dream team.
With Robbie as the first signing?
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The thing people seem to not realise is that slating Lambert left, right and centre, then replying to the question with "who next" with "better than Lambert" is by their own definition, utterly meaningless and not good enough.
I'd say it's a pretty good starting point, replacing an underperforming/ incompetent employee with better.
We might not be talking about the very cream, or a manager who targets CL qualification in 2/3 years anymore. But -as Greg points out- there are quite a few who would back themselves to deliver more with the squad PL inherited in the summer plus the additional £20 million+ he had to spend.
Not sure I agree.
In one breath, Lambert is the worst manager we've ever had, in the next, "better than Lambert" is sufficient? Surely "better than Lambert" is meaningless if Lambert is so terrible?
Greg points out there are quite a few, but can't suggest a single viable name worth sacking Lambert and handing out a few more million in compensation for.
So Steve Kean then. You would have kept him at blackburn like the owners did to save on compensation. Lambert would have a similar record to him, well worse actually.
Good example Greg.
They fired him when Blackburn were second in the league and the knee-jerk manager that they brought in just because 'anyone would better' took them the bring of the relegation zone, so they had to fire him as well.
I'm not sure the above example really backs up your point all that well.
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you want me to go through nearly every manager who's been in the premiership and is still working and who hasn't taken down a squad worth 90m? Surely there must be a name who you think is shit? Just name him and he'll get my support over Lambert if we go down
No. I don't want you to name managers who have managed to not get relegated with a squad worth £90m, at all.
I want you to suggest a few possible names to replace Lambert, should we get relegated.
Despite there apparently being 40 of them, you don't want to name a single one.
I've got a hunch on this, Greg. Call me overly suspicious, but I am starting to suspect the reason you don't want to put a few names forward is because, like me, you realise they will all be utterly shit, uninspiring lower leagues managers.
Go on then Di matteo?
Two issues with that.
One, last time he was managing, it was Chelsea, but now he's going to come to a Championship side? And can he organise a defence? He couldn't at Albion.
Let's have a few more, then. I don't think even Randy is thick enough to have a shortlist of one person.
I'll throw a few at you.
Phil Brown
Phil Parkinson
Billy Davies
Alan Curbishley.
Steve Bruce (although he's getting promoted, so would probably be out of our grasp)
How do those names strike you?
Di matteo for all his faults would still have a staggeringly better record than Lambert if he took us down. my vote is for Di matteo. As for the other names most of 'em would have a better record than a post-relegated lambchop. See its not hard to beat total failure.
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Di matteo for all his faults would still have a staggeringly better record than Lambert if he took us down. my vote is for Di matteo. As for the other names most of 'em would have a better record than a post-relegated lambchop. See its not hard to beat total failure.
How many times, though, Greg .... can't you see that going on and on about Lambert being the worst manager we've ever had, then in the next breath suggesting that "better than Lambert" is sufficient reason to sack him and employ them in his place is utterly meaningless - by your own definition?
Beating "total failure" can still be failure. I thought we were sick of that?
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The thing people seem to not realise is that slating Lambert left, right and centre, then replying to the question with "who next" with "better than Lambert" is by their own definition, utterly meaningless and not good enough.
I'd say it's a pretty good starting point, replacing an underperforming/ incompetent employee with better.
We might not be talking about the very cream, or a manager who targets CL qualification in 2/3 years anymore. But -as Greg points out- there are quite a few who would back themselves to deliver more with the squad PL inherited in the summer plus the additional £20 million+ he had to spend.
Not sure I agree.
In one breath, Lambert is the worst manager we've ever had, in the next, "better than Lambert" is sufficient? Surely "better than Lambert" is meaningless if Lambert is so terrible?
Greg points out there are quite a few, but can't suggest a single viable name worth sacking Lambert and handing out a few more million in compensation for.
So Steve Kean then. You would have kept him at blackburn like the owners did to save on compensation. Lambert would have a similar record to him, well worse actually.
Good example Greg.
They fired him when Blackburn were second in the league and the knee-jerk manager that they brought in just because 'anyone would better' took them the bring of the relegation zone, so they had to fire him as well.
I'm not sure the above example really backs up your point all that well.
course it does. He has an awful record but not as bad as lambert's if we went down. I'm guessing paulie rates Lambchop higher than Kean? iF we go down he's mistaken
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Di matteo for all his faults would still have a staggeringly better record than Lambert if he took us down. my vote is for Di matteo. As for the other names most of 'em would have a better record than a post-relegated lambchop. See its not hard to beat total failure.
How many times, though, Greg .... can't you see that going on and on about Lambert being the worst manager we've ever had, then in the next breath suggesting that "better than Lambert" is sufficient reason to sack him and employ them in his place is utterly meaningless - by your own definition?
Beating "total failure" can still be failure. I thought we were sick of that?
so you just want to keep someone completely shit because the next guy may be just as bad? Great logic...
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The thing people seem to not realise is that slating Lambert left, right and centre, then replying to the question with "who next" with "better than Lambert" is by their own definition, utterly meaningless and not good enough.
I'd say it's a pretty good starting point, replacing an underperforming/ incompetent employee with better.
We might not be talking about the very cream, or a manager who targets CL qualification in 2/3 years anymore. But -as Greg points out- there are quite a few who would back themselves to deliver more with the squad PL inherited in the summer plus the additional £20 million+ he had to spend.
Not sure I agree.
In one breath, Lambert is the worst manager we've ever had, in the next, "better than Lambert" is sufficient? Surely "better than Lambert" is meaningless if Lambert is so terrible?
Greg points out there are quite a few, but can't suggest a single viable name worth sacking Lambert and handing out a few more million in compensation for.
So Steve Kean then. You would have kept him at blackburn like the owners did to save on compensation. Lambert would have a similar record to him, well worse actually.
Good example Greg.
They fired him when Blackburn were second in the league and the knee-jerk manager that they brought in just because 'anyone would better' took them the bring of the relegation zone, so they had to fire him as well.
I'm not sure the above example really backs up your point all that well.
course it does. He has an awful record but not as bad as lambert's if we went down. I'm guessing paulie rates Lambchop higher than Kean? iF we go down he's mistaken
Nice try.
"So Steve Kean then. You would have kept him at blackburn like the owners did to save on compensation"
I expect Paulie would. I would have done too. Because he looked like he was about the get them promoted again and sacking him because Blackburn went down was clearly the wrong thing to do. As it turned out that yes, it is possible to end up with a worse manager than the one that you thought wasn't very good.
In your example, you're the one firing the manager of the second placed team in the league just to get an even worse manager in.
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Di matteo for all his faults would still have a staggeringly better record than Lambert if he took us down. my vote is for Di matteo. As for the other names most of 'em would have a better record than a post-relegated lambchop. See its not hard to beat total failure.
How many times, though, Greg .... can't you see that going on and on about Lambert being the worst manager we've ever had, then in the next breath suggesting that "better than Lambert" is sufficient reason to sack him and employ them in his place is utterly meaningless - by your own definition?
Beating "total failure" can still be failure. I thought we were sick of that?
so you just want to keep someone completely shit because the next guy may be just as bad? Great logic and probably the definition of giving up.
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Di matteo for all his faults would still have a staggeringly better record than Lambert if he took us down. my vote is for Di matteo. As for the other names most of 'em would have a better record than a post-relegated lambchop. See its not hard to beat total failure.
How many times, though, Greg .... can't you see that going on and on about Lambert being the worst manager we've ever had, then in the next breath suggesting that "better than Lambert" is sufficient reason to sack him and employ them in his place is utterly meaningless - by your own definition?
Beating "total failure" can still be failure. I thought we were sick of that?
so you just want to keep someone completely shit because the next guy may be just as bad? Great logic...
He can't be completely shit though can he? Otherwise we'd have less points than Derby. And we wouldn't have signed Guzan and Benteke. I've told you a million times not to exaggerate Greg.
I've also asked a million times for 3 names and you still owe me 2.
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Di matteo for all his faults would still have a staggeringly better record than Lambert if he took us down. my vote is for Di matteo. As for the other names most of 'em would have a better record than a post-relegated lambchop. See its not hard to beat total failure.
How many times, though, Greg .... can't you see that going on and on about Lambert being the worst manager we've ever had, then in the next breath suggesting that "better than Lambert" is sufficient reason to sack him and employ them in his place is utterly meaningless - by your own definition?
Beating "total failure" can still be failure. I thought we were sick of that?
so you just want to keep someone completely shit because the next guy may be just as bad? Great logic...
He can't be completely shit though can he? Otherwise we'd have less points than Derby. And we wouldn't have signed Guzan and Benteke. I've told you a million times not to exaggerate Greg.
I've also asked a million times for 3 names and you still owe me 2.
If all there was to management was signing good players than we'd have had a bit more success. As for the managers, take two random names from paulie's list. As good as any
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So you agree he isn't completely shit and that you are incapable of independently naming 3 managers you'd want.
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The thing people seem to not realise is that slating Lambert left, right and centre, then replying to the question with "who next" with "better than Lambert" is by their own definition, utterly meaningless and not good enough.
I'd say it's a pretty good starting point, replacing an underperforming/ incompetent employee with better.
We might not be talking about the very cream, or a manager who targets CL qualification in 2/3 years anymore. But -as Greg points out- there are quite a few who would back themselves to deliver more with the squad PL inherited in the summer plus the additional £20 million+ he had to spend.
Not sure I agree.
In one breath, Lambert is the worst manager we've ever had, in the next, "better than Lambert" is sufficient? Surely "better than Lambert" is meaningless if Lambert is so terrible?
Greg points out there are quite a few, but can't suggest a single viable name worth sacking Lambert and handing out a few more million in compensation for.
So Steve Kean then. You would have kept him at blackburn like the owners did to save on compensation. Lambert would have a similar record to him, well worse actually.
Good example Greg.
They fired him when Blackburn were second in the league and the knee-jerk manager that they brought in just because 'anyone would better' took them the bring of the relegation zone, so they had to fire him as well.
I'm not sure the above example really backs up your point all that well.
course it does. He has an awful record but not as bad as lambert's if we went down. I'm guessing paulie rates Lambchop higher than Kean? iF we go down he's mistaken
Nice try.
"So Steve Kean then. You would have kept him at blackburn like the owners did to save on compensation"
I expect Paulie would. I would have done too. Because he looked like he was about the get them promoted again and sacking him because Blackburn went down was clearly the wrong thing to do. As it turned out that yes, it is possible to end up with a worse manager than the one that you thought wasn't very good.
In your example, you're the one firing the manager of the second placed team in the league just to get an even worse manager in.
i said in the summer not when they did sack him. i'm well aware where they were in the league and having a premiership squad and being 2nd is frankly not much of a surprise. Not really relevant that they then decided to employ a total novice
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So you agree he isn't completely shit and that you are incapable of independently naming 3 managers you'd want.
I've named them. Di matteo or anyone with a better record than Lambert post relegation. Any name you want to rubbish from that large list feel free .
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So you agree he isn't completely shit and that you are incapable of independently naming 3 managers you'd want.
I've named them. Di matteo or anyone with a better record than Lambert post relegation. Any name you want to rubbish from that large list feel free .
You've named RDM who has been mentioned more than once before and anyone from the list Paulie gave. You said there were 40, name some of your own.
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So you agree he isn't completely shit and that you are incapable of independently naming 3 managers you'd want.
I've named them. Di matteo or anyone with a better record than Lambert post relegation. Any name you want to rubbish from that large list feel free .
You've named RDM who has been mentioned more than once before and anyone from the list Paulie gave. You said there were 40, name some of your own.
(http://www.agora-gallery.com/contactimages/extralarge//AK263880E7_411F_43C9_82FC_6853E77D6BEA.jpg)
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i'll just nick paulie's list then
Phil Brown
Billy Davies
Alan Curbishley.
Steve Bruce
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So now you know why I think you are incapable of naming any of the ones you want. All you do is use the only names already mentioned, which isn't many out of the 40. Just name 3 of the over 30 obvious candidates not yet mentioned that you'd be okay with.
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Adkins
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That's better, only 2 more :)
And for what it's worth I wouldn't be reaching for the noose IF we went down and IF we parted with Lambert and ended up with Adkins.
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tony mowbray. Piece of piss this. Harder finding someone with a worse record than Lambert would have.
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gary megson. (still on wba atm)
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There you go there's the three. I wouldn't touch the last 2 with a bargepole mind. My Boro mate on FB is forever slating Mowbray.
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owen coyle
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Ha ha, so, after all that coaxing you come up with Tony Mowbray and Gary Megson?
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and repeat till you go through every team who's played in the premier for the last 10 years. easy peasy.
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At least he named them Paulie. And they made more sense than Roy Keane!
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Ha ha, so, after all that coaxing you come up with Tony Mowbray and Gary Megson?
all would have a better record than lambert. As i keep pointing out his record would stink post-relegation.
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I'd argue the point that Mowbray has a better record.
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I'd argue the point that Mowbray has a better record.
Mowbray took down a squad down worth 90 million? really?
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I'd argue the point that Mowbray has a better record.
Mowbray took down a squad down worth 90 million? really?
He never survived either with a squad that was worth as little as the Norwich one. And we both know full well that unless we count in the potential profit on Benteke and Guzan no way is our squad worth 90 million.
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I'd argue the point that Mowbray has a better record.
Mowbray took down a squad down worth 90 million? really?
He never survived either with a squad that was worth as little as the Norwich one. And we both know full well that unless we count in the potential profit on Benteke and Guzan no way is our squad worth 90 million.
who mentioned Norwich? we're on about lamberts resources now and its far far more than Mowbray was given
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I'd argue the point that Mowbray has a better record.
Mowbray took down a squad down worth 90 million? really?
He never survived either with a squad that was worth as little as the Norwich one. And we both know full well that unless we count in the potential profit on Benteke and Guzan no way is our squad worth 90 million.
who mentioned Norwich? we're on about lamberts resources now and its far far more than Mowbray was given
I mentioned them obviously.
Mowbray has not by any criteria (apart from the one very specific one you come up with that is impossible to compare against for obvious reasons) been a more successful manager than Lambert.
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I've said it before and i realise we're not what we were but taking Aston Villa down is not something anyone wants on their CV. We're not a stoke or a WBA or any of those other clubs who spent 5 or so seasons in the top flight. If we go down it will be a shock and Lambert won't last even if he does get the nod in the summer. Keeping him on after relegation would just prolong the agony for everyone concerned.
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tony mowbray. Piece of piss this. Harder finding someone with a worse record than Lambert would have.
Not really.
Premier League Records
Paul Lambert 65 games 17 wins (26% win rate)
Tony Mowbray 38 games 8 wins (21% win rate)
All English League Records
Paul Lambert 328 games 144 wins (44% win rate)
Tony Mowbray 271 games 115 wins (42% win rate)
Try again.
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tony mowbray. Piece of piss this. Harder finding someone with a worse record than Lambert would have.
Not really.
Premier League Records
Paul Lambert 65 games 17 wins (26% win rate)
Tony Mowbray 38 games 8 wins (21% win rate)
All English League Records
Paul Lambert 328 games 144 wins (44% win rate)
Tony Mowbray 271 games 115 wins (42% win rate)
Try again.
we're comparing his Villa record vs Mowbrays WBA record. Nice try.
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Where we are is unacceptable for us, but as has been said many times, that's not all down to Lambert. Many many factors have contributed to where we are now. And we'll never know if someone else would have done better or worse as it is all purely guess work. I'd take a punt that under Roy Keane or Mowbray for example we'd be worse off. But with the squad and problems we had before Lambert set foot through the door I think we'd have struggled under anyone.
For what it's worth i'm firmly in the undecided camp on what should happen if we did go down.
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tony mowbray. Piece of piss this. Harder finding someone with a worse record than Lambert would have.
Not really.
Premier League Records
Paul Lambert 65 games 17 wins (26% win rate)
Tony Mowbray 38 games 8 wins (21% win rate)
All English League Records
Paul Lambert 328 games 144 wins (44% win rate)
Tony Mowbray 271 games 115 wins (42% win rate)
Try again.
we're comparing his Villa record vs Mowbrays WBA record. Nice try.
Which you can't really do. As to compare accurately they'd have had to manage identical squads in identical circumstances. However Mowbray's one season in the top flight ended with Albion bottom. Despite having 3 years to build his squad. Should hardly make anyone confident he's better than Lambert.
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Where we are is unacceptable for us, but as has been said many times, that's not all down to Lambert. Many many factors have contributed to where we are now. And we'll never know if someone else would have done better or worse as it is all purely guess work. I'd take a punt that under Roy Keane or Mowbray for example we'd be worse off. But with the squad and problems we had before Lambert set foot through the door I think we'd have struggled under anyone.
For what it's worth i'm firmly in the undecided camp on what should happen if we did go down.
If lambert stayed post relegation, if we weren't running away with it by the Autumn the knives would be out because of the "we're the big premiership club having a 1 year holiday in the lower leagues dontcha know" factor, regardless of how many of the better players left in the summer. We'd be better off getting a clean slate because if it didn't go exactly to plan he'll do well to get as much leeway as TSM.
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tony mowbray. Piece of piss this. Harder finding someone with a worse record than Lambert would have.
Not really.
Premier League Records
Paul Lambert 65 games 17 wins (26% win rate)
Tony Mowbray 38 games 8 wins (21% win rate)
All English League Records
Paul Lambert 328 games 144 wins (44% win rate)
Tony Mowbray 271 games 115 wins (42% win rate)
Try again.
we're comparing his Villa record vs Mowbrays WBA record. Nice try.
Sorry, I didn't realise we were being so selective.
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The other side is if we sack him that's x amount of million in compensation, yet another new manager (the 5th in 5 years) with new ideas on players and so on. Sacking the backroom staff and employing a new bunch. Can we afford it yet again, it will all eat into our already reduced budget. Do we have to say enough is enough and attempt something approaching continuity? I see both sides IF we went down and is why i'm currently undecided.
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tony mowbray. Piece of piss this. Harder finding someone with a worse record than Lambert would have.
Not really.
Premier League Records
Paul Lambert 65 games 17 wins (26% win rate)
Tony Mowbray 38 games 8 wins (21% win rate)
All English League Records
Paul Lambert 328 games 144 wins (44% win rate)
Tony Mowbray 271 games 115 wins (42% win rate)
Try again.
we're comparing his Villa record vs Mowbrays WBA record. Nice try.
Which you can't really do. As to compare accurately they'd have had to manage identical squads in identical circumstances. However Mowbray's one season in the top flight ended with Albion bottom. Despite having 3 years to build his squad. Should hardly make anyone confident he's better than Lambert.
The point is the massive difference is resources even in our current bad shape, and the fact there's clubs like swansea winning cups and above us with much poorer (on paper) and cheaper squads
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The other side is if we sack him that's x amount of million in compensation, yet another new manager (the 5th in 5 years) with new ideas on players and so on. Sacking the backroom staff and employing a new bunch. Can we afford it yet again, it will all eat into our already reduced budget. Do we have to say enough is enough and attempt something approaching continuity? I see both sides IF we went down and is why i'm currently undecided.
way i see it, there will be the firesale to end all firesales if we go down. Because we won't be able to shift the likes of Ireland, they will flog Benteke, Westwood, Guzan, anyone who attracts a bid. Lambert's best buys won't be there so you might as well start again
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tony mowbray. Piece of piss this. Harder finding someone with a worse record than Lambert would have.
Not really.
Premier League Records
Paul Lambert 65 games 17 wins (26% win rate)
Tony Mowbray 38 games 8 wins (21% win rate)
All English League Records
Paul Lambert 328 games 144 wins (44% win rate)
Tony Mowbray 271 games 115 wins (42% win rate)
Try again.
we're comparing his Villa record vs Mowbrays WBA record. Nice try.
Which you can't really do. As to compare accurately they'd have had to manage identical squads in identical circumstances. However Mowbray's one season in the top flight ended with Albion bottom. Despite having 3 years to build his squad. Should hardly make anyone confident he's better than Lambert.
The point is the massive difference is resources even in our current bad shape, and the fact there's clubs like swansea winning cups and above us with much poorer (on paper) and cheaper squads
Albion also hadn't got the shite we've had to deal with. You really can't compare a the 2 scenarios when judging a manager.
Swansea are the culmination of a decade of long term strategy. Something that we MAY be trying to start to do with the Lambert policy of youth. But we haven't had anything like a long term strategy for donkeys years, possibly since Saunders.
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Where we are is unacceptable for us, but as has been said many times, that's not all down to Lambert. Many many factors have contributed to where we are now. And we'll never know if someone else would have done better or worse as it is all purely guess work. I'd take a punt that under Roy Keane or Mowbray for example we'd be worse off. But with the squad and problems we had before Lambert set foot through the door I think we'd have struggled under anyone.
For what it's worth i'm firmly in the undecided camp on what should happen if we did go down.
If lambert stayed post relegation, if we weren't running away with it by the Autumn the knives would be out because of the "we're the big premiership club having a 1 year holiday in the lower leagues dontcha know" factor, regardless of how many of the better players left in the summer. We'd be better off getting a clean slate because if it didn't go exactly to plan he'll do well to get as much leeway as TSM.
However much you wish it, I don't see the club offloading Lambert in the summer. And they'd be wrong to.
Yes, he's executed a high-risk strategy this season that looks like failing.
Yes, he's come across as oburate and inflexible.
Yes, he has failed to address set-piece / last 10 minutes problems.
Yes, there's no question that he could and should have strengthened the back four and defensive MF with experience in the January window.
But:
- the buy / sell strategy and high-wage issue is not of his making.
- it takes time to build a young squad and nurture an inexperienced group.
- he has not been helped in any way by many of his more experienced players (GA and Charles apart, perhaps).
- he has a goood recood of developing squads and getting promotion.
If we go down I genuinely think we can come back stronger and fitter under Lambert. But I'll admit I may just be wearing my rose-tinted glassses.
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I agree with you...
If we were to get rid it was at xmas after the goal difference bashings as an attempt to stay in the league.
As we have now passed that window, i see no point in removing lambert even if we go down as I am confident he will get us back up.
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Adele. She can write and sing a song. good grief.
Then there's Ben Affleck. Acts, writes, directs, produces.
Laudrup. plays, manages, sings, does his own videos.
3 for a start.
Pfft. Daniel Day Lewis
Mind you, that bloke from Moneyball seemed to know what he was doing. I don't think he even got an Oscar either.
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The question the board and management should be asking themselves is how they have allowed the likes of Swansea, Norwich to get so far ahead of us with on paper better squads than we have. That is the crime here and Lambert has done very little to excuse himself from any blame by not getting in decent defensive cover and a hard bastard in midfield. I would suggest that Syilla's omission is because he isn't good enough and the left back position has been a disaster. The Board are ultimately accountable but Lamberts decision making has compounded things. To go out to a League 2 team over two legs with second leg at home is a disgrace end of.
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The question the board and management should be asking themselves is how they have allowed the likes of Swansea, Norwich to get so far ahead of us with on paper better squads than we have. That is the crime here and Lambert has done very little to excuse himself from any blame by not getting in decent defensive cover and a hard bastard in midfield. I would suggest that Syilla's omission is because he isn't good enough and the left back position has been a disaster. The Board are ultimately accountable but Lamberts decision making has compounded things. To go out to a League 2 team over two legs with second leg at home is a disgrace end of.
Correct, the whole thing has been shocking from the boards decisions , to the inept manager and poor players - they should hang their heads in shame but they are getting big money regardless of their performances.
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At least he named them Paulie. And they made more sense than Roy Keane!
Why so? Roy Keane took Sunderland up, and kept them up which is equal to what Lambert has achieved.
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Roy Keane and Sam Allardyce.
Christ on the cross.
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I'd take Gregory back over any of these. Actually Gregory or Little would be brilliant.
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I also wish people would stop talking as if we have been relegated. Its as if folk couldn't wait until we had lost at Arsenal to start ripping into to us again.
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Christ on the cross.
Yep, even he would be better than LMAObert.
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Ok.
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I also wish people would stop talking as if we have been relegated. Its as if folk couldn't wait until we had lost at Arsenal to start ripping into to us again.
Well, people were demanding names as to who would be a better manager to get us back assuming that Lambert takes us down.
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I also wish people would stop talking as if we have been relegated. Its as if folk couldn't wait until we had lost at Arsenal to start ripping into to us again.
Well, people were demanding names as to who would be a better manager to get us back assuming that Lambert takes us down.
Who in their right mind would come to us now? Or are we going to hype over the likes of Ancelotti and Benitez as we usually do?
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If Lambert had taken over another club of our size instead of us, and was producing the same results for them as he is for us, how many people on here would want him, if say we'd kept McLeish for another year? He'd be being written off as a one season wonder who was now giving a club their worst ever season/result/defence/goal difference and anybody wanting him would be laughed out of town.
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I also wish people would stop talking as if we have been relegated. Its as if folk couldn't wait until we had lost at Arsenal to start ripping into to us again.
This. It's not looking good at the moment but it's not May yet.
As for Roy Keane, i'd rather keep Lambert.
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I also wish people would stop talking as if we have been relegated. Its as if folk couldn't wait until we had lost at Arsenal to start ripping into to us again.
This. It's not looking good at the moment but it's not May yet.
As for Roy Keane, i'd rather keep Lambert.
I'd rather have McLeish back.
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I also wish people would stop talking as if we have been relegated. Its as if folk couldn't wait until we had lost at Arsenal to start ripping into to us again.
This. It's not looking good at the moment but it's not May yet.
As for Roy Keane, i'd rather keep Lambert.
I'd rather have McLeish back.
Time for your medication, Lee.
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I also wish people would stop talking as if we have been relegated. Its as if folk couldn't wait until we had lost at Arsenal to start ripping into to us again.
This. It's not looking good at the moment but it's not May yet.
As for Roy Keane, i'd rather keep Lambert.
I'd rather have McLeish back.
Time for your medication, Lee.
It's the people who'd want to retain Lambert who need professional help.
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We're fucked whatever happens, so there's no point even discussing it any more.
Have a nice day, everyone.
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I spoke briefly to Ron Atkinson the other week and asked him if he'd come back. He admitted the job was "too big for him now".
Would love to have Gregory back though. Loved his passion for the club.
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I spoke briefly to Ron Atkinson the other week and asked him if he'd come back. He admitted the job was "too big for him now".
Would love to have Gregory back though. Loved his passion for the club.
I like his passion for the club but I think I'd rather have Allardyce as manager.
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I also wish people would stop talking as if we have been relegated. Its as if folk couldn't wait until we had lost at Arsenal to start ripping into to us again.
This. It's not looking good at the moment but it's not May yet.
As for Roy Keane, i'd rather keep Lambert.
I'd rather have McLeish back.
Time for your medication, Lee.
Rather him than Keane, I meant, but that's like saying I'd rather be shot than stabbed.
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Where we are is unacceptable for us, but as has been said many times, that's not all down to Lambert. Many many factors have contributed to where we are now. And we'll never know if someone else would have done better or worse as it is all purely guess work. I'd take a punt that under Roy Keane or Mowbray for example we'd be worse off. But with the squad and problems we had before Lambert set foot through the door I think we'd have struggled under anyone.
For what it's worth i'm firmly in the undecided camp on what should happen if we did go down.
If lambert stayed post relegation, if we weren't running away with it by the Autumn the knives would be out because of the "we're the big premiership club having a 1 year holiday in the lower leagues dontcha know" factor, regardless of how many of the better players left in the summer. We'd be better off getting a clean slate because if it didn't go exactly to plan he'll do well to get as much leeway as TSM.
However much you wish it, I don't see the club offloading Lambert in the summer. And they'd be wrong to.
Yes, he's executed a high-risk strategy this season that looks like failing.
Yes, he's come across as oburate and inflexible.
Yes, he has failed to address set-piece / last 10 minutes problems.
Yes, there's no question that he could and should have strengthened the back four and defensive MF with experience in the January window.
But:
- the buy / sell strategy and high-wage issue is not of his making.
- it takes time to build a young squad and nurture an inexperienced group.
- he has not been helped in any way by many of his more experienced players (GA and Charles apart, perhaps).
- he has a goood recood of developing squads and getting promotion.
If we go down I genuinely think we can come back stronger and fitter under Lambert. But I'll admit I may just be wearing my rose-tinted glassses.
In my opinion this is the most succinct summation of our situation on this thread.
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You can tell people are not thinking straight when names like Roy Keane and Tony bloody Mowbray pop up.
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Where we are is unacceptable for us, but as has been said many times, that's not all down to Lambert. Many many factors have contributed to where we are now. And we'll never know if someone else would have done better or worse as it is all purely guess work. I'd take a punt that under Roy Keane or Mowbray for example we'd be worse off. But with the squad and problems we had before Lambert set foot through the door I think we'd have struggled under anyone.
For what it's worth i'm firmly in the undecided camp on what should happen if we did go down.
If lambert stayed post relegation, if we weren't running away with it by the Autumn the knives would be out because of the "we're the big premiership club having a 1 year holiday in the lower leagues dontcha know" factor, regardless of how many of the better players left in the summer. We'd be better off getting a clean slate because if it didn't go exactly to plan he'll do well to get as much leeway as TSM.
However much you wish it, I don't see the club offloading Lambert in the summer. And they'd be wrong to.
Yes, he's executed a high-risk strategy this season that looks like failing.
Yes, he's come across as oburate and inflexible.
Yes, he has failed to address set-piece / last 10 minutes problems.
Yes, there's no question that he could and should have strengthened the back four and defensive MF with experience in the January window.
But:
- the buy / sell strategy and high-wage issue is not of his making.
- it takes time to build a young squad and nurture an inexperienced group.
- he has not been helped in any way by many of his more experienced players (GA and Charles apart, perhaps).
- he has a goood recood of developing squads and getting promotion.
If we go down I genuinely think we can come back stronger and fitter under Lambert. But I'll admit I may just be wearing my rose-tinted glassses.
In my opinion this is the most succinct summation of our situation on this thread.
I'd agree with that. I'd also add that, if you looked at it dispassionately, on paper at least, at Lambert's record here, you'd expect a manager with those results to get sacked.
Despite the anti-Lambert lobby thinking we need "professional help", there isn't a man amongst us who doesn't understand the above.
The thing is, it's not really that simple as looking at the table and judging everything on that. Lambert has been doing his job - a job which involves a total transition of the footballing side of the club - in a very, very difficult environment.
Senior pro's not offering anything, a chairman who doesn't seem arsed any more, a wage bill which has been tackled far too recklessly, two seasons of utter crud (especially last season) under our belts ....
If we get relegated, and Lambert staying looks like the obvious option (and to my eyes at least, it does), then we're just going to have to grin and bear it as best we can and move on, and focus on getting back up as quickly as we can, and being stronger for it.
Honestly, I know we all have our own opinions, and the likes of Greg and Risso obviously feel strongly in their stance, you've got to acknowledge that they've not reached that position without lots of good reason, but what I don't get is the constant re-telling of grim facts - worse manager since whenever, worst season since whenever, lowest points tally etc etc
We all know that, you don't need to tell us it over and over as if we've missed it - we've been as fucked off watching this season unfold as anyone.
We're not saying things aren't awful, we're not saying Lambert is without blame - far from it - we are saying that we can see the situation at the club at the moment, and the problem we'd have if we were to sack him and have to find a replacement whilst in the championship, and the fact that we'd be spunking away yet more money paying off management teams (when we don't have much money to throw around), and given all that, trusting him to get us back quickly is the most sensible option.
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You can tell people are not thinking straight when names like Roy Keane and Tony bloody Mowbray pop up.
And Gary Megson.
The argument to sack him looks entirely less convincing when you look at the standard of likely replacements.
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I'd agree with that. I'd also add that, if you looked at it dispassionately, on paper at least, at Lambert's record here, you'd expect a manager with those results to get sacked.
Despite the anti-Lambert lobby thinking we need "professional help", there isn't a man amongst us who doesn't understand the above.
The thing is, it's not really that simple as looking at the table and judging everything on that. Lambert has been doing his job - a job which involves a total transition of the footballing side of the club - in a very, very difficult environment.
Senior pro's not offering anything, a chairman who doesn't seem arsed any more, a wage bill which has been tackled far too recklessly, two seasons of utter crud (especially last season) under our belts ....
If we get relegated, and Lambert staying looks like the obvious option (and to my eyes at least, it does), then we're just going to have to grin and bear it as best we can and move on, and focus on getting back up as quickly as we can, and being stronger for it.
Honestly, I know we all have our own opinions, and the likes of Greg and Risso obviously feel strongly in their stance, you've got to acknowledge that they've not reached that position without lots of good reason, but what I don't get is the constant re-telling of grim facts - worse manager since whenever, worst season since whenever, lowest points tally etc etc
We all know that, you don't need to tell us it over and over as if we've missed it - we've been as fucked off watching this season unfold as anyone.
We're not saying things aren't awful, we're not saying Lambert is without blame - far from it - we are saying that we can see the situation at the club at the moment, and the problem we'd have if we were to sack him and have to find a replacement whilst in the championship, and the fact that we'd be spunking away yet more money paying off management teams (when we don't have much money to throw around), and given all that, trusting him to get us back quickly is the most sensible option.
There's been times recently when logging onto this board has felt like being stuck in the cave with Graham Norton on Father Ted.
Let me make this clear, I'm not an apologist for the club or the manager, the situation we're in cutting me up, but just looking to make one individual pay the a succession of poor decisions from the top down looks like the most pointless and self defeating option we could take.
In my opinion, last season's appointment of McLeish was heavily motivated by wanting to get something out those players Houllier had wanted shot of. The high earners, most of which are still bleeding us in exchange for the square root of fuck all.
The subsequent horror show of the most consistently uninspiring, attritional approach to football I can remember set us back more than one season, but that could have been put right soon enough.
The problem that's fucked us this season was the policy of the board back then. Giving that clown the job is something I find impossible to understand, on so many levels, but then to sign the players we did, with the contracts we handed out, when we knew that we needed the wage bill down, and the whole 'second chance' policy with the shitheads has been fucking disastrous.
For me, we've got the right man, trying to do the right job, a year too late and with margins too small to make mistakes.
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You know, I reckon if we'd been relegated last season, Lambert would have been in a much better place. He'd have had a much better opportunity to sort stuff out than he has now. The job is an impossible one, take on a failing squad, crap mentality, full of players that can't be arsed that have been bought by a bunch of managers who are all so disparate in approach.
O'Neill was the last one who was really allowed to build a squad in his own vision and we all know what happened after that; it's been decline. He was allowed to pay top money for players that were distinctly average and at best squad fillers whilst selling the best ones, ever since there hasn't been the opportunity to progress.
Houllier just didn't work out, McLeish was dreadful in approach and Lambert had to follow the lot.
This club needs to be cleared out with a fresh start, Lambert has done that quite well so far with a number of bad influences no longer with us (Collins, Warnock, Hutton and the poor Heskey). However, he's clearly not been able to maintain a standard of results that ensure safety. If we'd been sitting in 14th place and 10 points ahead of where we are now, then I don't think there would be the negativity there is towards him. It's such a fine margin.
I still believe we should stick with him, whether we stay up or go down, because from the glimpses we've seen, there is a lot of promise there and he's never had a failure yet. Relegation, whilst clearly not a preferred option is looking more likely, though I believe we can still do it.
Of the names being bandied about, do people really want us to try and build something under them? I mean, Allardyce, Kean, Megson and Mowbray? Seriously?
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You can tell people are not thinking straight when names like Roy Keane and Tony bloody Mowbray pop up.
And Gary Megson.
I'd add John Gregory to that list. An ex-hero with a big personality and a love for the Villa I agree, but he hasn't managed in the top flight for longer than Gerard Houllier and the last year of his reign was like watching a Mcleish side.
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Of the names being bandied about, do people really want us to try and build something under them? I mean, Allardyce, Kean, Megson and Mowbray? Seriously?
Nobody is saying that those managers would be anybody's first choice, nobody at all. And actually before Norwich, Lambert's record wasn't anything special at all.
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You can tell people are not thinking straight when names like Roy Keane and Tony bloody Mowbray pop up.
And Gary Megson.
I'd add John Gregory to that list. An ex-hero with a big personality and a love for the Villa I agree, but he hasn't managed in the top flight for longer than Gerard Houllier and the last year of his reign was like watching a Mcleish side.
I like Gregory a lot. Bearing in mind he was managing Wycombe before he came here, i thought he did a fairly good job. The worst thing he ever did was walk into the Derby job as soon.
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Of the names being bandied about, do people really want us to try and build something under them? I mean, Allardyce, Kean, Megson and Mowbray? Seriously?
Nobody is saying that those managers would be anybody's first choice, nobody at all. And actually before Norwich, Lambert's record wasn't anything special at all.
They are the names mentioned so far though and let's face it, we surely wouldn't want a short-term appointment?
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Of the names being bandied about, do people really want us to try and build something under them? I mean, Allardyce, Kean, Megson and Mowbray? Seriously?
Nobody is saying that those managers would be anybody's first choice, nobody at all. And actually before Norwich, Lambert's record wasn't anything special at all.
A genuine question: who do you think we would be able to attract if Lambert was sacked today? I think it was a bit of a coup to get hold of him, after the last glistening turd of a season. Really: who do you think would come now?
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I would expect there will be managers on the continent who probably fancy a crack at managing in england - ralf rangnick would be my choice personally but of course attracting a manager in the premier league would probably be far easier than if we were in the championship- it depends what division we are in as to who we could possibly attract.
There is no point sacking lambert this late in the day, if it was going to happen it should have been a month ago.
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I would hope there is a clause in his contract . Takes us down he leaves with no compensation.
I know we needed players , still can not believe he did not buy a CB but signed Dawkins , Bowery etc but we still have enough quality to stay up for me and If he takes us down , a lot of blame lies with Lambert .
Lets hope he saves us , learns by his mistakes quick but time is running out .
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I would expect there will be managers on the continent who probably fancy a crack at managing in england - ralf rangnick would be my choice personally but of course attracting a manager in the premier league would probably be far easier than if we were in the championship- it depends what division we are in as to who we could possibly attract.
There is no point sacking lambert this late in the day, if it was going to happen it should have been a month ago.
Foreign managers are no good without having loads of money made available to them.
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I would expect there will be managers on the continent who probably fancy a crack at managing in england - ralf rangnick would be my choice personally but of course attracting a manager in the premier league would probably be far easier than if we were in the championship- it depends what division we are in as to who we could possibly attract.
There is no point sacking lambert this late in the day, if it was going to happen it should have been a month ago.
Foreign managers are no good without having loads of money made available to them.
In fairness Laudrup has done well without spending much but otherwise good point.
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I would expect there will be managers on the continent who probably fancy a crack at managing in england - ralf rangnick would be my choice personally but of course attracting a manager in the premier league would probably be far easier than if we were in the championship- it depends what division we are in as to who we could possibly attract.
There is no point sacking lambert this late in the day, if it was going to happen it should have been a month ago.
Foreign managers are no good without having loads of money made available to them.
In fairness Laudrup has done well without spending much but otherwise good point.
Tactical awareness, fluid footballing formations, varying styles of play and knowledge of european transfer markets can be useful - as of course can money - i wonder where we would be if we had appointed laudrup and swansea had appointed lambert?
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Probably no better off; Laudrup was a continuation of a theme in Martinez and Rodgers before him. We've chopped, changed and signed a bunch of players that seemingly couldn't play football and certainly not together.
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I would expect there will be managers on the continent who probably fancy a crack at managing in england - ralf rangnick would be my choice personally but of course attracting a manager in the premier league would probably be far easier than if we were in the championship- it depends what division we are in as to who we could possibly attract.
There is no point sacking lambert this late in the day, if it was going to happen it should have been a month ago.
Foreign managers are no good without having loads of money made available to them.
In fairness Laudrup has done well without spending much but otherwise good point.
Tactical awareness, fluid footballing formations, varying styles of play and knowledge of european transfer markets can be useful - as of course can money - i wonder where we would be if we had appointed laudrup and swansea had appointed lambert?
Two totally different jobs, and the first sentence you could attribute our manager.
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I would expect there will be managers on the continent who probably fancy a crack at managing in england - ralf rangnick would be my choice personally but of course attracting a manager in the premier league would probably be far easier than if we were in the championship- it depends what division we are in as to who we could possibly attract.
There is no point sacking lambert this late in the day, if it was going to happen it should have been a month ago.
Foreign managers are no good without having loads of money made available to them.
In fairness Laudrup has done well without spending much but otherwise good point.
Tactical awareness, fluid footballing formations, varying styles of play and knowledge of european transfer markets can be useful - as of course can money - i wonder where we would be if we had appointed laudrup and swansea had appointed lambert?
Two totally different jobs, and the first sentence you could attribute our manager.
Tactical awareness- are you sure? :D
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Tactical awareness? Paul Lambert? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha etc.
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You can be aware of something without being able to make it work.
Tactics are not some kind of computer game power up you just press and hey presto, or else any twat could do it.
He got it wrong, and he's got it right, but basically the players we've had haven't been good enough.
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TSM was given his marching orders for nearly sending us down and was replaced by PL who could go one better and actually achieve it. If so, will he go? Both he and TSM have form for taking sides up from the Championship I know, but should Lambert get another opportunity to put things right?
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I'm sure Lambert is aware of tactics in the same way i'm aware of quantum Physics.
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TSM was given his marching orders for nearly sending us down and was replaced by PL who could go one better and actually achieve it. If so, will he go? Both he and TSM have form for taking sides up from the Championship I know, but should Lambert get another opportunity to put things right?
No,he should not!
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What about Bert Van Marwijk if we're going continental. Flopped in the last Euros of course, but did very well before that, and was a success at club level. Was rumoured to be earning a relative pittance as Dutch international manager.
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What about Bert Van Marwijk if we're going continental. Flopped in the last Euros of course, but did very well before that, and was a success at club level. Was rumoured to be earning a relative pittance as Dutch international manager.
Another decent shout , if we survive , if relegated it will be hard to attract a decent manager.
There are few British managers who are successful over time - too many go the way of jewell, dowie, brown, coyle , etc in getting a team up and then floundering after a year in the top flight - i bracket lambert in that group.
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isn't Gandalf younger than Bert?
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What about Bert Van Marwijk if we're going continental. Flopped in the last Euros of course, but did very well before that, and was a success at club level. Was rumoured to be earning a relative pittance as Dutch international manager.
At last! A credible, although unlikely, option.
Knowing our luck though, he'd turn out to be the a dutch version of Steve McLaren.
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I'm sure Lambert is aware of tactics in the same way i'm aware of quantum Physics.
I suppose all that studying has left you little time to get to the match.
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Laudrup was my outside punt in 2010 post MON walk out, but I'd say if he leaves Swansea he'll have far better options than us now. So how about Gregorio Manzano at Mallorca.
Has taken Sevilla and Atletico Madrid to 5th and 7th respectively, but is well used to operating on a budget at clubs such as Mallorca, Malaga (as was) and Valladolid.
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Just as a matter of interest, what would those who want rid have expected as a minimum not to want Lambert out?
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What about Bert Van Marwijk if we're going continental. Flopped in the last Euros of course, but did very well before that, and was a success at club level. Was rumoured to be earning a relative pittance as Dutch international manager.
At last! A credible, although unlikely, option.
Knowing our luck though, he'd turn out to be the a dutch version of Steve McLaren.
I'd love if it he did a press conference in a cod-Brummie accent.
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What about Bert Van Marwijk if we're going continental. Flopped in the last Euros of course, but did very well before that, and was a success at club level. Was rumoured to be earning a relative pittance as Dutch international manager.
At last! A credible, although unlikely, option.
Knowing our luck though, he'd turn out to be the a dutch version of Steve McLaren.
I'd love if it he did a press conference in a cod-Brummie accent.
"Wim pickarse elves up and gow egen"
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Just as a matter of interest, what would those who want rid have expected as a minimum not to want Lambert out?
I'd give him a punt if we stay up seeing we didn't sack him when we should have. I didn't want him to fail and he's been dealt a similar hand as TSM but you have to look at the evidence of your own eyes eventually
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Just as a matter of interest, what would those who want rid have expected as a minimum not to want Lambert out?
I'd give him a punt if we stay up seeing we didn't sack him when we should have. I didn't want him to fail and he's been dealt a similar hand as TSM but you have to look at the evidence of your own eyes eventually
I disagree, I think his hand is considerably worse thanks to TSM.
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Just as a matter of interest, what would those who want rid have expected as a minimum not to want Lambert out?
I'd give him a punt if we stay up seeing we didn't sack him when we should have. I didn't want him to fail and he's been dealt a similar hand as TSM but you have to look at the evidence of your own eyes eventually
I disagree, I think his hand is considerably worse thanks to TSM.
I don't. TSM's spending was financed by Young leaving. Lambert had 20m net to spend. Only way Lambert's had it worse was Petrov wasn't available at all but 20m should get you a decent replacement
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Just as a matter of interest, what would those who want rid have expected as a minimum not to want Lambert out?
I'd give him a punt if we stay up seeing we didn't sack him when we should have. I didn't want him to fail and he's been dealt a similar hand as TSM but you have to look at the evidence of your own eyes eventually
I disagree, I think his hand is considerably worse thanks to TSM.
I don't. TSM's spending was financed by Young leaving. Lambert had 20m net to spend. Only way Lambert's had it worse was Petrov wasn't available at all but 20m should get you a decent replacement
So you're saying he should have spent all £20 million on a replacement for Petrov?
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Just as a matter of interest, what would those who want rid have expected as a minimum not to want Lambert out?
I'd give him a punt if we stay up seeing we didn't sack him when we should have. I didn't want him to fail and he's been dealt a similar hand as TSM but you have to look at the evidence of your own eyes eventually
I disagree, I think his hand is considerably worse thanks to TSM.
I don't. TSM's spending was financed by Young leaving. Lambert had 20m net to spend. Only way Lambert's had it worse was Petrov wasn't available at all but 20m should get you a decent replacement
Yeah, well £20m quid would, but it won't when you have to spend it on several players.
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It's not just a matter of strength of the playing squad when you judge the 'hand Lambert's been dealt'. You also have to factor in how we were playing and the fact it takes time to change that.
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Just as a matter of interest, what would those who want rid have expected as a minimum not to want Lambert out?
I'd give him a punt if we stay up seeing we didn't sack him when we should have. I didn't want him to fail and he's been dealt a similar hand as TSM but you have to look at the evidence of your own eyes eventually
I disagree, I think his hand is considerably worse thanks to TSM.
I don't. TSM's spending was financed by Young leaving. Lambert had 20m net to spend. Only way Lambert's had it worse was Petrov wasn't available at all but 20m should get you a decent replacement
So you're saying he should have spent all £20 million on a replacement for Petrov?
no, but 6m should have been enough. Some of his signings, well the impact they've made is negligable. Benteke, Westwood, Lowton, - still enough money to replace Petrov after they were bought.
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I would agree with Lee.
Lambert has compounded the issue with his gung-ho tactics and naivety at times, with also his transfer market dealing in so far as he didn’t get the required players in through the middle, but this is just one side of the problem.
The fact he had only £23 million to spend to re-build a squad depleted after two previous years of chaos and miss-management at every level suggests that where we are should not come as too great a surprise.
His hand for my money, is worse than that of McLiesh.
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Just as a matter of interest, what would those who want rid have expected as a minimum not to want Lambert out?
I'd give him a punt if we stay up seeing we didn't sack him when we should have. I didn't want him to fail and he's been dealt a similar hand as TSM but you have to look at the evidence of your own eyes eventually
I disagree, I think his hand is considerably worse thanks to TSM.
I don't. TSM's spending was financed by Young leaving. Lambert had 20m net to spend. Only way Lambert's had it worse was Petrov wasn't available at all but 20m should get you a decent replacement
So you're saying he should have spent all £20 million on a replacement for Petrov?
no, but 6m should have been enough. Some of his signings, well the impact they've made is negligable. Benteke, Westwood, Lowton, - still enough money to replace Petrov after they were bought.
And Vlaar? Bennet also?
They may not have had the impact we hoped but we needed both and were shopping in the basement in Premiership terms.
I think his biggest error in terms of signings was El Amadi, who was to replace Petrov and despite looking promising at first has just got worse, but again with £2m spent it's not that surprising.
Basically, the whole "He's had £20m to spend" is laughable when it had to be spread so thinly. There's enough that's happened to make a reasonable case to get rid, but using that undermines your case.
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I'm not sure how his lot can be compared to McLeish. After-all McLeish didn't have to follow himself in!
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end of the day the money was there to replace petrov. Lambert's made some good signings but he's also made some arse ones
KEA - 2.5M
Bennett - 2.5m
5m just for starters
Bowery is one for the future but you could say with our strike force signing him was the wrong player at the wrong time. And Vlaar has made little impact even when he is fit. I make that the best part of 9m
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end of the day the money was there to replace petrov. Lambert's made some good signings but he's also made some arse ones
KEA - 2.5M
Bennett - 2.5m
5m just for starters
Bowery is one for the future but you could say with our strike force signing him was the wrong player at the wrong time. And Vlaar has made little impact even when he is fit. I make that the best part of 9m
Bennett as a left back is not a good option, however, I think going forward he's looked quite good. I'd give him a go left midfield.
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Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
In the summer a lot of people were impressed with Lambert looking at other options instead of the typical 'MON type' etc...
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In the summer Lambert was counting on the likes of Dunne to step in and help us out.
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end of the day the money was there to replace petrov. Lambert's made some good signings but he's also made some arse ones
KEA - 2.5M
Bennett - 2.5m
5m just for starters
Bowery is one for the future but you could say with our strike force signing him was the wrong player at the wrong time. And Vlaar has made little impact even when he is fit. I make that the best part of 9m
Our 'rivals' Southampton spent more or less the same as our budget on two players, one of whom had never played at the top level.
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Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
In the summer a lot of people were impressed with Lambert looking at other options instead of the typical 'MON type' etc...
Of course, but i doubt even the most fervent lambert fan expected things to be this bad - i wanted lambert as well but i would rather say i think i was wrong than support him just because i thought he was right man last summer.
Some people still feel he is the right man and thats their choice - its fair enough , i would love him to prove me wrong , staying up is all that matters right now.
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end of the day the money was there to replace petrov. Lambert's made some good signings but he's also made some arse ones
KEA - 2.5M
Bennett - 2.5m
5m just for starters
Bowery is one for the future but you could say with our strike force signing him was the wrong player at the wrong time. And Vlaar has made little impact even when he is fit. I make that the best part of 9m
Bennett as a left back is not a good option, however, I think going forward he's looked quite good. I'd give him a go left midfield.
mebbe but you wonder why the penny hadn't dropped with Lambert. Everyone else could see he's not a left-back
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Where did he play for Middlesbrough and England at U19, U20 and U21 levels?
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end of the day the money was there to replace petrov. Lambert's made some good signings but he's also made some arse ones
KEA - 2.5M
Bennett - 2.5m
5m just for starters
Bowery is one for the future but you could say with our strike force signing him was the wrong player at the wrong time. And Vlaar has made little impact even when he is fit. I make that the best part of 9m
Bennett as a left back is not a good option, however, I think going forward he's looked quite good. I'd give him a go left midfield.
mebbe but you wonder why the penny hadn't dropped with Lambert. Everyone else could see he's not a left-back
It's far too early to draw conclusions like that. He's looked good going forward, but ropey defensively - a criticism that could easily have been leveled at Kyle Walker or Ashley Cole early in their careers.
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end of the day the money was there to replace petrov. Lambert's made some good signings but he's also made some arse ones
KEA - 2.5M
Bennett - 2.5m
5m just for starters
Bowery is one for the future but you could say with our strike force signing him was the wrong player at the wrong time. And Vlaar has made little impact even when he is fit. I make that the best part of 9m
Bennett as a left back is not a good option, however, I think going forward he's looked quite good. I'd give him a go left midfield.
mebbe but you wonder why the penny hadn't dropped with Lambert. Everyone else could see he's not a left-back
I don't know how they play up at 'Boro, but I wondered if he was struggling in the 3-5-2 because, like most full back will have, he's spent his time growing up playing in a 4-4-2 with a player directly in front to exchange passes with.
I think he struggled to adjust, and whilst again you can apportion blame to the manager for sticking with him sometimes you have to let players work through a struggle to come out a better player, especially when the alternative is Eric Lichaj, or god forbid Stephen Warnock.
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I'd rather play Ireland there. Serious. We might as well start games with big signs on the pitch showing the opposition where to go
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end of the day the money was there to replace petrov. Lambert's made some good signings but he's also made some arse ones
KEA - 2.5M
Bennett - 2.5m
5m just for starters
Bowery is one for the future but you could say with our strike force signing him was the wrong player at the wrong time. And Vlaar has made little impact even when he is fit. I make that the best part of 9m
Bennett as a left back is not a good option, however, I think going forward he's looked quite good. I'd give him a go left midfield.
mebbe but you wonder why the penny hadn't dropped with Lambert. Everyone else could see he's not a left-back
I don't know how they play up at 'Boro, but I wondered if he was struggling in the 3-5-2 because, like most full back will have, he's spent his time growing up playing in a 4-4-2 with a player directly in front to exchange passes with.
I think he struggled to adjust, and whilst again you can apportion blame to the manager for sticking with him sometimes you have to let players work through a struggle to come out a better player, especially when the alternative is Eric Lichaj, or god forbid Stephen Warnock.
Well he's up there with the worse i can remember. Hopefully it is just a period of adjustment but i hope he adjusts before we're in the Championship.
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even if we do stay up i dont think it proves Lambert has done a good job, far from it actually,
but i still think he deserves another season to prove himself,
i like some of the football we are playing,
standing at the Emerites on saturday in a game we lost to put us further in trouble ,yet at no point did i think this team is a load of shit playing shit football, i actually thought we played some decent stuff, which for me is the big difference from last season
whether Lambert can take us on and progress is another story, i hope he can i actually believe he can, and i was one who didnt want him as the new manager and was completly ambivalent towards his appointment
but there are signs that things could get better, maybe only small slow steps, but steps never the less
anyway the alternatives some mentioned on here are just to catastophic to behold, so i hope we stay up and see what he can do next season
if we go down i think it would be difficult for him to stay to be honest, i would still take him over a lot of others, but the confidence in the man from the fans would be shot,
at the moment considering the record breaking shitty results weve had, there is absolutly no turning agaisnt him from the supporters, Lamberts army still being sung, i feel its because of the battling performances and qaulity of some of the football being played, even if we are naive in giving late goals away
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I'd rather play Ireland there. Serious. We might as well start games with big signs on the pitch showing the opposition where to go
As usual you replace decent debate with hyperbole.
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at the moment considering the record breaking shitty results weve had, there is absolutly no turning agaisnt him from the supporters
That definately wasn't the case at Millwall. And I though the atmosphere in our end was pretty tame at the Emirates on saturday, compared with every other visit there. It's usually much better than that.
I'm treating all the remaining away games as some sort of farewell tour of the premierleague.
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I'd rather play Ireland there. Serious. We might as well start games with big signs on the pitch showing the opposition where to go
As usual you replace decent debate with hyperbole.
not really. I think everyone here knows a glaring weakness in a team line-up when they see one and presumably the opposition do as well.
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even if we do stay up i dont think it proves Lambert has done a good job, far from it actually,
but i still think he deserves another season to prove himself,
i like some of the football we are playing,
standing at the Emerites on saturday in a game we lost to put us further in trouble ,yet at no point did i think this team is a load of shit playing shit football, i actually thought we played some decent stuff, which for me is the big difference from last season
whether Lambert can take us on and progress is another story, i hope he can i actually believe he can, and i was one who didnt want him as the new manager and was completly ambivalent towards his appointment
but there are signs that things could get better, maybe only small slow steps, but steps never the less
anyway the alternatives some mentioned on here are just to catastophic to behold, so i hope we stay up and see what he can do next season
if we go down i think it would be difficult for him to stay to be honest, i would still take him over a lot of others, but the confidence in the man from the fans would be shot,
at the moment considering the record breaking shitty results weve had, there is absolutly no turning agaisnt him from the supporters, Lamberts army still being sung, i feel its because of the battling performances and qaulity of some of the football being played, even if we are naive in giving late goals away
That's an interesting point pal.
As much as I'd be willing to keep him on, you get the feeling he'd be up against it with the support, and the last thing we'd need is everyone at each others throats again.
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Bennett has shown signs that he could be a decent player , a bit lapse defensively but good going forward, i wouldnt rule him out just yet - i think he could become a decent player for us - kea has been a huge disappointment to me , the other signings to varying degrees have not been bad.
If we do survive i can see why people would make a case for lambert being given another year .
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I wasn't at Millwall so can't comment, when your team loses there is all sorts of frustrations but I have yet to hear the ' Lambert out' chant yet
But I could be wrong
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I wasn't at Millwall so can't comment, when your team loses there is all sorts of frustrations but I have yet to hear the ' Lambert out' chant yet
But I could be wrong
Millwall post match thread was heated to say the least - i think as the vote shows its pretty much a 50/50 split.
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I wasn't at Millwall so can't comment, when your team loses there is all sorts of frustrations but I have yet to hear the ' Lambert out' chant yet
But I could be wrong
I've been pleasantly surprised that some of my more reactionary mates have stuck with him.
There's been calls for him out directly after the Bradford and Milwall games, but once the dust has settled they've generally remained behind him.
It may just been that it was so bad last year, and we've not really got anywhere left to turn, but also there has been those little chinks of light, like a glance off a bird you thought way out of your league, that suggest the good times might not be far off.
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I heard Bennett did OK on Saturday.
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I heard Bennett did OK on Saturday.
Yes he did pretty well, i think confidence is improving and a flat back 4 suits him better.
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I think Bennett did alright Saturday.
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Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
In the summer a lot of people were impressed with Lambert looking at other options instead of the typical 'MON type' etc...
The thing that screwed Lambert - or the thing that he screwed up for himself - is that the experienced players he was left with have failed to deliver. Hutton, Warnock, Dunne, Charles, Ireland - nearly half a team - have delivered virtually nothing. Bent, Given and Gabby have added a little something this season, and Charles is beginning to.
If most of PL's summer signings had blended well with a group of motivated and determined senior players, we'd be comfortably mid-table.
His biggest error - having decided that most of the above experienced players were not in his plans - was not getting the Chairman's commitment to a couple of credible replacements in January. With those, we'd probably not be leaking these infuriating last-five-minute goals.
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It's probably the one season where Dunne and Collins would have been an ideal pair.
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His biggest error - having decided that most of the above experienced players were not in his plans - was not getting the Chairman's commitment to a couple of credible replacements in January. With those, we'd probably not be leaking these infuriating last-five-minute goals.
Hiring Mcleish in 2011 and not signing defenders during the 2013 January window. If we are relegated these will be the two major factors.
There are other factors of course, but these two will be at the top for me.
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It's probably the one season where Dunne and Collins would have been an ideal pair.
I'd have kept Collins above all the others, but I suppose he was the only one anyone offered cash for.
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He's operating within a shit budget, yes the players could be better but we miss the influence of Vlaar and I don't think realistically he wanted to play all the kids at once but we ain't got much bloody choice, sounds like there is no money in January either?? Who's going to sort it out? We've been shit under GH, Mccunt and now Lambert, who's to blame? Managers or chairman?
Both manager and chairman to blame- regarding vlaar i am not sure he's as good as some believe, he has not looked like an international .
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He's operating within a shit budget, yes the players could be better but we miss the influence of Vlaar and I don't think realistically he wanted to play all the kids at once but we ain't got much bloody choice, sounds like there is no money in January either?? Who's going to sort it out? We've been shit under GH, Mccunt and now Lambert, who's to blame? Managers or chairman?
Both manager and chairman to blame- regarding vlaar i am not sure he's as good as some believe, he has not looked like an international .
It's been a difficult first season for him. I thin it's games like Saturday - 1 all away from home with 10 minutes left - that he is missed.
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In the summer Lambert was counting on the likes of Dunne to step in and help us out.
Expecting anything from Dunne was a huge mistake, and in any event he was always going to be out for at least three months. Even with that, Lambert knew the score in January and STILL didn't get a defender in.
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Saturday was a million miles away from the limpest, lamest 3-0 defeat you will ever have seen the Villa succumb to at the Emirates the previous season.
I think that's why fans have stuck with him. The effort and at times quality is there, however, we're lacking the two or three players through the spine to really make it all work and stick us 8 or 9 places higher up the table.
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In the summer Lambert was counting on the likes of Dunne to step in and help us out.
Expecting anything from Dunne was a huge mistake, and in any event he was always going to be out for at least three months. Even with that, Lambert knew the score in January and STILL didn't get a defender in.
Unless you subscribe to the theory that he had more to spend that he did, which I personally don't, then I lay that one at the feet of Randy for not loosening the purse strings enough to allow him to bring in a PL experienced defender.
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Lambert flirted with Lescott early in the window and there were rumours flying around too but that didn't come to pass for whatever reason (mainly I think because City didn't want to lose him).
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I feel certain Lambert would have got a defender in if he could.
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Still Lambert in for me, even though my confidence is wavering. Firstly, he hasn't been all bad, and arguments that any manager would be better is bordering on silly: there are plenty of managers who would take our current team down. Secondly, this is so much Lambert's team now, I think we need a far superior manager to do better in the run-in than Lambert will.
I realize that he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes, and that there is at least a fifty per cent chance of us going down. But unless we can get in a defensive mastermind who can wave a magic wand over our defence, and who is almost certain to succeed a Premiership level, I'll stick with Lambert.
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I feel certain Lambert would have got a defender in if he could.
He bought syllla and dawkins in , neither of whom he deems good enough to start in the team - i do believe he could and should have signed a defender.
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But if they were of the standard of Sylla and Dawkins, then there wouldn't have been much point to that, like there isn't much point to the other two.
If he had the cash, then he would have spent it. He didn't.
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His biggest error - having decided that most of the above experienced players were not in his plans - was not getting the Chairman's commitment to a couple of credible replacements in January. With those, we'd probably not be leaking these infuriating last-five-minute goals.
Hiring Mcleish in 2011 and not signing defenders during the 2013 January window. If we are relegated these will be the two major factors.
There are other factors of course, but these two will be at the top for me.
Lambert had nothing to do with hiring TSM .... bit harsh laying that one on him!
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But if they were of the standard of Sylla and Dawkins, then there wouldn't have been much point to that, like there isn't much point to the other two.
If he had the cash, then he would have spent it. He didn't.
Did he say he didnt ? I have asked the question of pat murphy and mat kendrick as well as nursey but neither have got a reply -simple question - did you spend all your january transfer budget ?
As he said clearly it was his decision not to sign experience last month - he could have but he didnt.
He was expressing interest in lescott early in january and ended up with nobody.
"Would I sign experienced players? It’s not something I’ll turn away from," he said. "If they have got the right attitude to go and do it, and they fit into the group, then I’d look at that. This club is too big to be about one individual or a few individuals. It’s about the team."
Interpret that however you want - I'd say it's a question of attitude as much as experience. Big players? Possibly? Big shots? No way.
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But if they were of the standard of Sylla and Dawkins, then there wouldn't have been much point to that, like there isn't much point to the other two.
If he had the cash, then he would have spent it. He didn't.
Did he say he didnt ? I have asked the question of pat murphy and mat kendrick as well as nursey but neither have got a reply -simple question - did you spend all your january transfer budget ?
As he said clearly it was his decision not to sign experience last month - he could have but he didnt.
He was expressing interest in lescott early in january and ended up with nobody.
Despite you clawing around for titbits of press information, the mostly likely scenario is that he couldn't find anyone of significant quality for the money we had.
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But if they were of the standard of Sylla and Dawkins, then there wouldn't have been much point to that, like there isn't much point to the other two.
If he had the cash, then he would have spent it. He didn't.
Did he say he didnt ? I have asked the question of pat murphy and mat kendrick as well as nursey but neither have got a reply -simple question - did you spend all your january transfer budget ?
As he said clearly it was his decision not to sign experience last month - he could have but he didnt.
He was expressing interest in lescott early in january and ended up with nobody.
Despite you clawing around for titbits of press information, the mostly likely scenario is that he couldn't find anyone of significant quality for the money we had.
Yes he had enough moneybto improve the defence but he didnt do so- to say he had no money is wrong - he could and should have signed a defender.
Im sure we could compete for the likes of scharner if we had tried.
"We tried to do a few (deals) but the salaries, phew, they were way too high.
"We couldn't afford anyone massive. We couldn't get many loans short-term because of the salaries. Can Villa not compete with the Stoke's and Newcastle's? Yeah, that's too high for us.
"But I'll say again that Randy Lerner (club owner) has been great and I knew the remit."
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Exactly, so what would the point have bringing in a bench warmer? There is little point as it is to Sylla and Dawkins.
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Exactly, so what would the point have bringing in a bench warmer? There is little point as it is to Sylla and Dawkins.
Scharner would have walked into our team and been far better than sylla and dawkins sitting on the bench.
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His biggest error - having decided that most of the above experienced players were not in his plans - was not getting the Chairman's commitment to a couple of credible replacements in January. With those, we'd probably not be leaking these infuriating last-five-minute goals.
Hiring Mcleish in 2011 and not signing defenders during the 2013 January window. If we are relegated these will be the two major factors.
There are other factors of course, but these two will be at the top for me.
Lambert had nothing to do with hiring TSM .... bit harsh laying that one on him!
I wasn't blaming Lambert. I suppose the point I made would have been better suited to the "Are You Worried About Relegation" thread.
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Maybe, maybe not. The real issue is could we afford the wages? Probably not. That's the thing about having no money to spend, you go out and buy/loan players who were earning less than some posters on this site.
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Ooops.
Wrong thread.
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Maybe, maybe not. The real issue is could we afford the wages? Probably not. That's the thing about having no money to spend, you go out and buy/loan players who were earning less than some posters on this site.
Im sure scharners not on more than warnock, sylla and dawkins combined - he would have been a loan deal so no big fee either and he is also a decent defender or midfielder experienced and a battler - im sure lambert could have found a defender, maybe he relied on dunne being close to fitness and gambled?
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Maybe, maybe not. The real issue is could we afford the wages? Probably not. That's the thing about having no money to spend, you go out and buy/loan players who were earning less than some posters on this site.
Im sure scharners not on more than warnock, sylla and dawkins combined - he would have been a loan deal so no big fee either and also a decent defender or midfielder - im sure lambert could have found a defender, maybe he relied on dunne being close to fitness and gambled?
He was a decent player, but he's knocking on, and for all we know we begged him to come but he chose Sunderland.
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Maybe, maybe not. The real issue is could we afford the wages? Probably not. That's the thing about having no money to spend, you go out and buy/loan players who were earning less than some posters on this site.
Im sure scharners not on more than warnock, sylla and dawkins combined - he would have been a loan deal so no big fee either and also a decent defender or midfielder - im sure lambert could have found a defender, maybe he relied on dunne being close to fitness and gambled?
He was a decent player, but he's knocking on, and for all we know we begged him to come but he chose Sunderland.
No he never, he went to wigan and has looked superb since going there.
Again, just for the fullness...experienced players to help guide, lift, and lead these lads during a bad spell...anyone? There must be somebody out there in football land who wouldn't demand Lescott's wages or cost £10million that could do that Paul. He said he still had the Dempsey money available when the window ended last summer, he said he had more left but we'd be fine following the summer,
Because there is no way money was not available, so why didnt he use it? Don't want to admit he were wrong in the summer about these players being ready to cope on their own?
Is he unable to handle quality experienced players so surrounds himself with younger lads?
By all means defend him if you think he is a decent manager but don't tell me could not find anyone to improve our defence .
He constantly told press " we'll be fine , we won't go down- i just know it" .
Well we will soon find out if he is right or wrong .
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Maybe, maybe not. The real issue is could we afford the wages? Probably not. That's the thing about having no money to spend, you go out and buy/loan players who were earning less than some posters on this site.
Im sure scharners not on more than warnock, sylla and dawkins combined - he would have been a loan deal so no big fee either and also a decent defender or midfielder - im sure lambert could have found a defender, maybe he relied on dunne being close to fitness and gambled?
He was a decent player, but he's knocking on, and for all we know we begged him to come but he chose Sunderland.
No he never, he went to wigan and has looked superb since going there.
Again, just for the fullness...experienced players to help guide, lift, and lead these lads during a bad spell...anyone? There must be somebody out there in football land who wouldn't demand Lescott's wages or cost £10million that could do that Paul. He said he still had the Dempsey money available when the window ended last summer, he said he had more left but we'd be fine following the summer,
Because there is no way money was not available, so why didnt he use it? Don't want to admit he were wrong in the summer about these players being ready to cope on their own?
Is he unable to handle quality experienced players so surrounds himself with younger lads?
He constantly told press " we'll be fine , we won't go down- i just know it" .
Well we will soon find out if he is right or wrong .
You're right, he did go back to Wigan but again maybe he just fancied going back to somewhere familiar, or maybe he fucking hates us from his association with the Stripeys.
You keep insisting the money was there, but the only thing I'm 100% positive about is the fact you don't know.
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Maybe, maybe not. The real issue is could we afford the wages? Probably not. That's the thing about having no money to spend, you go out and buy/loan players who were earning less than some posters on this site.
Im sure scharners not on more than warnock, sylla and dawkins combined - he would have been a loan deal so no big fee either and also a decent defender or midfielder - im sure lambert could have found a defender, maybe he relied on dunne being close to fitness and gambled?
He was a decent player, but he's knocking on, and for all we know we begged him to come but he chose Sunderland.
No he never, he went to wigan and has looked superb since going there.
Again, just for the fullness...experienced players to help guide, lift, and lead these lads during a bad spell...anyone? There must be somebody out there in football land who wouldn't demand Lescott's wages or cost £10million that could do that Paul. He said he still had the Dempsey money available when the window ended last summer, he said he had more left but we'd be fine following the summer,
Because there is no way money was not available, so why didnt he use it? Don't want to admit he were wrong in the summer about these players being ready to cope on their own?
Is he unable to handle quality experienced players so surrounds himself with younger lads?
He constantly told press " we'll be fine , we won't go down- i just know it" .
Well we will soon find out if he is right or wrong .
You're right, he did go back to Wigan but again maybe he just fancied going back to somewhere familiar, or maybe he fucking hates us from his association with the Stripeys.
You keep insisting the money was there, but the only thing I'm 100% positive about is the fact you don't know.
Lambert himself said he had money , not enough to compete with stoke or newcastle but we should at least compete with wigan and reading and saints.
He had money to at least sign scharner or others of that calibre and came out with the. " "experience guarantees nothing " line- before bringing in 2 more players with no premiership experience making 9 signings who had never kicked a ball in the premiership - we needed at least one experienced head last month and he failed to deliver.
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But you don't know that.
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But you don't know that.
He brought in 2 players who neither are in the 1st team and bought one of them as well as getting rid of warnock - so besides him saying he had money he spent money and saved money elsewhere on wages- he should have signed a defender , that was the priority!
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But you don't know that.
If there was really no money available at all, then we should all be deeply concerned. If no money was available, despite the obvious benefits that a central defender would have brought, then you have to worry about how we will fare in the championship. If Lerner can't afford a few million depsite it potentiall costing upwards of £50m if we get relegated, then how will we manage in the Championship with a slashed income and lots of players like Shay Given still on long, expensive contracts.
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I will worry about how we will fare in the Championship when we play in it.
Which will be around the same time as Ragnarok, so who cares.
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There was money there for the likes of Sissoko but he wanted paying more than we could offer. Who the defender was and how much he wanted we'll never know.
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But you don't know that.
If there was really no money available at all, then we should all be deeply concerned. If no money was available, despite the obvious benefits that a central defender would have brought, then you have to worry about how we will fare in the championship. If Lerner can't afford a few million depsite it potentiall costing upwards of £50m if we get relegated, then how will we manage in the Championship with a slashed income and lots of players like Shay Given still on long, expensive contracts.
I don't think there is, and I am deeply worried.
The Given signing was just mental, considering the cuts we've applied since.
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There was money there for the likes of Sissoko but he wanted paying more than we could offer. Who the defender was and how much he wanted we'll never know.
Sissoko refused to even speak to qpr either - i think he had set his mind on joining his french mates at newcastle as well as the great deal they offered him.
He has been outstanding for them so far and its a great shame we never got him.
I can understand not wanting to saddle ourselves with a £70k long term deal for players but considering the amount of cash lost if relegated you would think we would have at least been prepared to offer decent wages on a short term loan and attract a couple of quality experienced players.
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But you don't know that.
If there was really no money available at all, then we should all be deeply concerned. If no money was available, despite the obvious benefits that a central defender would have brought, then you have to worry about how we will fare in the championship. If Lerner can't afford a few million depsite it potentiall costing upwards of £50m if we get relegated, then how will we manage in the Championship with a slashed income and lots of players like Shay Given still on long, expensive contracts.
I don't think there is, and I am deeply worried.
The Given signing was just mental, considering the cuts we've applied since.
I don't think there is, either, and ultimately, that is going to be the main thing which will continue to drag us down.
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When was the last time we actually sold a player?
Was it Collins in the summer?
Other than that, for a fair old while, they all seem to have been loaned into oblivion (Makoun, Warnock), or walked away for nowt (many examples).
You do have to wonder at the lack of brains upstairs to allow a squad to be depreciated like that. I'd have thought it'd be largely the job of Faulkner to manage the squad (as the consistent presence as managers change), and make sure that we handle players contract expiries / ongoing value to the best benefit of the club.
I reckon there has been absolutely none of that. Cuellar, Reo-Coker, Heskey, Beye, Warnock, Friedel, Makoun, Bouma, Harewood- has any club watched so many players soak up huge wage money and then leave for nothing?
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If Lerner honestly can't afford to pay the bills, then administration and points deductions await.
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If Lerner honestly can't afford to pay the bills, then administration and points deductions await.
What a load of fucking bollocks.
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If Lerner honestly can't afford to pay the bills, then administration and points deductions await.
Of course lerner can afford it - whether his heart is still in it though is open to question - has he lost interest?
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It really depends on what level of loss of interest he has gone through.
To be honest, I am not sure what bothers me most, his lack of interest, or his utter incompetence, and tendency to appoint even more incompetent people.
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This is not necessarily a defence of what's happened, but there does seem to be a policy now of only buying players whose value will increase, rather than decrease.
I can see the logic of it, even if it makes no sense if the players aren't good enough to stop you getting relegated.
The purchase of Sissoko will cost Newcastle an absolute fortune over the six-and-a-half years of his contract, and even if his value at the end of that period is nil, it could still be an astute piece of business.
QPR buying Samba could be the same if he keeps them up, but if he doesn't then his purchase will be an act of financial suicide.
Buying Lowton, Bennett and Westwood may be considered a visionary act come 2015. But at the moment we're like a man dying of hypothermia waiting for the weather to warm up rather than just lighting a fire
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If Lerner honestly can't afford to pay the bills, then administration and points deductions await.
What a load of fucking bollocks.
Charming.
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When was the last time we actually sold a player?
Was it Collins in the summer?
Other than that, for a fair old while, they all seem to have been loaned into oblivion (Makoun, Warnock), or walked away for nowt (many examples).
You do have to wonder at the lack of brains upstairs to allow a squad to be depreciated like that. I'd have thought it'd be largely the job of Faulkner to manage the squad (as the consistent presence as managers change), and make sure that we handle players contract expiries / ongoing value to the best benefit of the club.
I reckon there has been absolutely none of that. Cuellar, Reo-Coker, Heskey, Beye, Warnock, Friedel, Makoun, Bouma, Harewood- has any club watched so many players soak up huge wage money and then leave for nothing?
I don't think it negligence, but rather a case of throwing the baby with the bath water.
In all (or at least most) of the cases you mentioned the players were evidently not worth the fees and wages we paid. And instead of deciding carefully what deadwood should be kept (to avoid too much instability and drop in quality) and who should be shifted, the club decided to get rid of as many as possible. Which lead to instabilty and a drop in quality.
In isolation, getting rid of Reo-Coker, Sidwell and Makoun have made sense - at least from a business perspective. But there have been games this season where I found myself thinking that a midfield trio of said players would have been an improvement on what we currently have.
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If Lerner honestly can't afford to pay the bills, then administration and points deductions await.
What a load of fucking bollocks.
Charming.
Indeed . ::)
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Very much so. There's no need for that.
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My apologies for the strong language. As ridiculous as Risso's post was, it was uncalled for.
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My apologies for the strong language. As ridiculous as Risso's post was, it was uncalled for.
I hate it when people are magnanimous and well-mannered. It makes me feel so fucking worthless
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My apologies for the strong language. As ridiculous as Risso's post was, it was uncalled for.
I hate it when people are magnanimous and well-mannered. It makes me feel so fucking worthless
He's a decent chap deep down if somewhat a tad emotional at times.. ;)
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Where has all this talk of Lerner being broke come from?
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This is not necessarily a defence of what's happened, but there does seem to be a policy now of only buying players whose value will increase, rather than decrease.
I can see the logic of it, even if it makes no sense if the players aren't good enough to stop you getting relegated.
The purchase of Sissoko will cost Newcastle an absolute fortune over the six-and-a-half years of his contract, and even if his value at the end of that period is nil, it could still be an astute piece of business.
QPR buying Samba could be the same if he keeps them up, but if he doesn't then his purchase will be an act of financial suicide.
Buying Lowton, Bennett and Westwood may be considered a visionary act come 2015. But at the moment we're like a man dying of hypothermia waiting for the weather to warm up rather than just lighting a fire
The above post is exactly my feelings. That is all i have to say, at the moment.Keep the fucking faith lads and lasses, please. UTV.
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My apologies for the strong language. As ridiculous as Risso's post was, it was uncalled for.
I hate it when people are magnanimous and well-mannered. It makes me feel so fucking worthless
He's a decent chap deep down if somewhat a tad emotional at times.. ;)
Not emotional at all Eastie, just honest. It's a rare thing nowadays.
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Where has all this talk of Lerner being broke come from?
He seems to me to have lost desire and interest if anything , having cashed in on the browns he is far from broke .
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My clock has broken and I am stuck in January. I keep watching over and over the games at the Africa Cup of Nations and seeing these superb specimens of athletic excellence heading away corners and swatting strikers and mullering midfield maestros and I am shouting at the television HE'LL DO GET HIM and HIM AND HIS MATE OVER THERE THE ONE KICKING THE LINESMAN.
Then I sigh a little and stifle a sob because it isn't January any more and Dunne remains in the intensive idleness ward, Polystyrene Ron has a bruise on his leg, Baker and Clark polish up their Running Against The Wind act and our CEO continues to hope that there will be a Premiership wild card for the most carbon neutral club.
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Where has all this talk of Lerner being broke come from?
He seems to me to have lost desire and interest if anything , having cashed in on the browns he is far from broke .
How much of that $1Bn from the Browns sale did he get to bank ??
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My clock has broken and I am stuck in January. I keep watching over and over the games at the Africa Cup of Nations and seeing these superb specimens of athletic excellence heading away corners and swatting strikers and mullering midfield maestros and I am shouting at the television HE'LL DO GET HIM and HIM AND HIS MATE OVER THERE THE ONE KICKING THE LINESMAN.
Then I sigh a little and stifle a sob because it isn't January any more and Dunne remains in the intensive idleness ward, Polystyrene Ron has a bruise on his leg, Baker and Clark polish up their Running Against The Wind act and our CEO continues to hope that there will be a Premiership wild card for the most carbon neutral club.
Our carbon footprint can save the day.
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My apologies for the strong language. As ridiculous as Risso's post was, it was uncalled for.
Why is it ridiculous? People have agreed that it doesn't look like we have any money to spend. If you don't have money and you can't/won't pay your debts because of a huge drop in income, what do you think happens?
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Whats the huge drop in income?
Have I missed our relegation?
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Whats the huge drop in income?
Have I missed our relegation?
Ignoring the fact that people are clearly debating what will happen IF we get relegated, just finishing in the bottom four and losing thousands off our home gates will lead to a big reduction in income.
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In isolation, getting rid of Reo-Coker, Sidwell and Makoun have made sense - at least from a business perspective. But there have been games this season where I found myself thinking that a midfield trio of said players would have been an improvement on what we currently have.
That's not what I mean, though.
Getting rid of, in the sense of "selling them", yes, but we haven't doen that with the players I mentioned, we just stuck them in the reserves or kept sending them on loan.
Vast amounts of money pissed away, because, other than the manager at any one time, there is not a single person at the club with a clue as to how to run it over a period of time.
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This is not necessarily a defence of what's happened, but there does seem to be a policy now of only buying players whose value will increase, rather than decrease.
I can see the logic of it, even if it makes no sense if the players aren't good enough to stop you getting relegated.
The purchase of Sissoko will cost Newcastle an absolute fortune over the six-and-a-half years of his contract, and even if his value at the end of that period is nil, it could still be an astute piece of business.
QPR buying Samba could be the same if he keeps them up, but if he doesn't then his purchase will be an act of financial suicide.
Buying Lowton, Bennett and Westwood may be considered a visionary act come 2015. But at the moment we're like a man dying of hypothermia waiting for the weather to warm up rather than just lighting a fire
The above post is exactly my feelings. That is all i have to say, at the moment.Keep the fucking faith lads and lasses, please. UTV.
Eh?
Did you actually read the post, Dan? Particularly the last line?
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My clock has broken and I am stuck in January. I keep watching over and over the games at the Africa Cup of Nations and seeing these superb specimens of athletic excellence heading away corners and swatting strikers and mullering midfield maestros and I am shouting at the television HE'LL DO GET HIM and HIM AND HIS MATE OVER THERE THE ONE KICKING THE LINESMAN.
Then I sigh a little and stifle a sob because it isn't January any more and Dunne remains in the intensive idleness ward, Polystyrene Ron has a bruise on his leg, Baker and Clark polish up their Running Against The Wind act and our CEO continues to hope that there will be a Premiership wild card for the most carbon neutral club.
Our carbon footprint can save the day.
This is true. We may be free falling towards oblivion, but at least we can sleep soundly knowing that the staff are turning the toilet light off once they've finished having a shit.
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If we do go down, getting rid of Lambert for taking us down should not be the reason. The reason should be because there is somebody more suitable to bring us back up with a stronger squad and something building for the future.
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If we do go down, getting rid of Lambert for taking us down should not be the reason. The reason should be because there is somebody more suitable to bring us back up with a stronger squad and something building for the future.
My major concern about Lambert is regarding the defensive side of the game. Norwich had a poor defensive record last season and we have been defensively poor pretty much all season. Attacking wise, we have shown signs of promise, but we have been so naive defensively (all over the pitch not just at the back) that I do wonder if Lambert and his coaching staff struggle with that side of the game.
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If we do go down, getting rid of Lambert for taking us down should not be the reason. The reason should be because there is somebody more suitable to bring us back up with a stronger squad and something building for the future.
My major concern about Lambert is regarding the defensive side of the game. Norwich had a poor defensive record last season and we have been defensively poor pretty much all season. Attacking wise, we have shown signs of promise, but we have been so naive defensively (all over the pitch not just at the back) that I do wonder if Lambert and his coaching staff struggle with that side of the game.
There is no wondering, they are pig awful at it clearly. But in other areas there are clear signs of marked improvement.
The failure to get a centre back in Jan may well see us relegated, but I would still give Lambert the first 3-4 months of next season to bring us back up, which I think he would.
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The bottom team next season according to collymore gets £60m so it makes the lack of signing of a defender last month even more ridiculous.
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I'm still convinced that Lerner thinks the Prem League operates like American sport where there is no relegation and we get the first picks on the draft. It's the only explanation for the strategy they have adopted.
If we have no plan to try and compete then he should be actively looking to sell up to a party that has that ambition. That is what a good custodian would do.
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If we have no plan to try and compete then he should be actively looking to sell up to a party that has that ambition. That is what a good custodian would do.
How do we know he isn't? Although, as I've said before, it is folly to allow the assets to depreciate if you are looking to sell them to recover the £200m debt in the club.
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If we have no plan to try and compete then he should be actively looking to sell up to a party that has that ambition. That is what a good custodian would do.
How do we know he isn't? Although, as I've said before, it is folly to allow the assets to depreciate if you are looking to sell them to recover the £200m debt in the club.
I think you have answered your own question, will be much easier to sell a PL club than a Championship one.
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Where has all this talk of Lerner being broke come from?
He seems to me to have lost desire and interest if anything , having cashed in on the browns he is far from broke .
How much of that $1Bn from the Browns sale did he get to bank ??
It was recently revealed that Lerner's personal fortune has increased. So he got a bit of it there.
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Lerner is now a sterling billionaire.
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Lerner is now a sterling billionaire.
So let the spending begin then. Don't hold your breath, you will die.
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Lerner is now a sterling billionaire.
So let the spending begin then. Don't hold your breath, you will die.
Don't the FFP rules mean he can't just pump cash in though? What are the restrictions exactly?
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The bottom team next season according to collymore gets £60m so it makes the lack of signing of a defender last month even more ridiculous.
This has been common knowledge to everyone since the deal was signed last year. How and why RL, Ginge and Lambo didn't feel the need to even slightly speculate on missing out on this sum of money defies belief. To me it's dereliction of duty. A pox on their house!
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Where has all this talk of Lerner being broke come from?
He seems to me to have lost desire and interest if anything , having cashed in on the browns he is far from broke .
How much of that $1Bn from the Browns sale did he get to bank ??
It was recently revealed that Lerner's personal fortune has increased. So he got a bit of it there.
That would already have been included in his fortune as an asset.
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I agree with Des and with what curious posted a couple of days ago namely that not to have signed a defender in the January window is the ultimate act of premeditated incompetence next to which any other decision ever to be made at Villa Park, like should we play in blue and white or should we change the name of the club, pale into insignificance. In January we had top flight status, in January we had the opportunity to buy security. Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert chose not to. Mistakes do not come any bigger than that.
I texted Damon this morning and said something I never thought I would say and that is I have in retrospect a growing appreciation of TSM. Yes he was a piss poor manager, yes, his football stank out every stadium he took a club in his charge but he was an honest man. With TSM you knew what you were getting. Lambert is an incompetent, stubborn, inflexible man who seeks to pass himself off as a modern, thinking, radical, innovative, original football manager but his time with us has shown him to be none of those things. He is an impostor which we might be able to live with having lived with TSM but he is also Lerner's poodle. He has been told that his job is safe when we go down and that is good enough for him. All the shame and the pain relegation will heap on us means nothing to him so long as he is safe personally.
I can still see him on the touchline at Millwall when their winner went in, taking his hands out of his pockets for the first time, giving three or four feeble claps and putting them back in his pockets. That was the most animated he had been all night.
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you dont like him then Brian ?
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I honestly think the job is too big for him.
I think he is at home at a small town club, where expectations are lower, but at a big city club he has been found wanting.
The things that sticks in my mind is how he said that paying as much as he did for Benteke 'frightened' him.
That is not the sign of man confident in his own decisions and able to live with the size of expectations upon him.
If, by a miracle we survive this year, I fear that his small time thinking will put us through this all over again next year.
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I agree with Des and with what curious posted a couple of days ago namely that not to have signed a defender in the January window is the ultimate act of premeditated incompetence next to which any other decision ever to be made at Villa Park, like should we play in blue and white or should we change the name of the club, pale into insignificance. In January we had top flight status, in January we had the opportunity to buy security. Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert chose not to. Mistakes do not come any bigger than that.
I texted Damon this morning and said something I never thought I would say and that is I have in retrospect a growing appreciation of TSM. Yes he was a piss poor manager, yes, his football stank out every stadium he took a club in his charge but he was an honest man. With TSM you knew what you were getting. Lambert is an incompetent, stubborn, inflexible man who seeks to pass himself off as a modern, thinking, radical, innovative, original football manager but his time with us has shown him to be none of those things. He is an impostor which we might be able to live with having lived with TSM but he is also Lerner's poodle. He has been told that his job is safe when we go down and that is good enough for him. All the shame and the pain relegation will heap on us means nothing to him so long as he is safe personally.
I can still see him on the touchline at Millwall when their winner went in, taking his hands out of his pockets for the first time, giving three or four feeble claps and putting them back in his pockets. That was the most animated he had been all night.
I couldn't agree more. I felt like this when seeing him glibly sit and watch us get turned over at Bradford with the air of one who was in no way responsible for the farce unfolding before him.
The only thing that should save him is if he saves us. A man who has presided over the season that we are having with little effort to address the all too obvious problems only deserves to be shown the door.
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I agree with Des and with what curious posted a couple of days ago namely that not to have signed a defender in the January window is the ultimate act of premeditated incompetence next to which any other decision ever to be made at Villa Park, like should we play in blue and white or should we change the name of the club, pale into insignificance. In January we had top flight status, in January we had the opportunity to buy security. Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert chose not to. Mistakes do not come any bigger than that.
I texted Damon this morning and said something I never thought I would say and that is I have in retrospect a growing appreciation of TSM. Yes he was a piss poor manager, yes, his football stank out every stadium he took a club in his charge but he was an honest man. With TSM you knew what you were getting. Lambert is an incompetent, stubborn, inflexible man who seeks to pass himself off as a modern, thinking, radical, innovative, original football manager but his time with us has shown him to be none of those things. He is an impostor which we might be able to live with having lived with TSM but he is also Lerner's poodle. He has been told that his job is safe when we go down and that is good enough for him. All the shame and the pain relegation will heap on us means nothing to him so long as he is safe personally.
I can still see him on the touchline at Millwall when their winner went in, taking his hands out of his pockets for the first time, giving three or four feeble claps and putting them back in his pockets. That was the most animated he had been all night.
I couldn't agree more. I felt like this when seeing him glibly sit and watch us get turned over at Bradford with the air of one who was in no way responsible for the farce unfolding before him.
The only thing that should save him is if he saves us. A man who has presided over the season that we are having with little effort to address the all too obvious problems only deserves to be shown the door.
Agree with you both and andy h , the man is put of his depth in my opinion and the villa is too big a club for him.
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Not so much as not liking him john. It is the fact that he does not ring true. Nothing he does measures up to what he achieved at Colchester and at Norwich. I will give you an example of what I mean.
For weeks we have been told that the players are in a fight and have got to fight. Lerner deigned to comment after one defeat (Wigan?) that we should keep on fighting. Why did Lambert not fight Lerner and Faulkner in January to get reinforcements? Any manager worth the name would have been, should have been purple in the face and banging Lerner's desk with his fist demanding money to save the club. He either did not do it or if he did he has not had the bottle to come out and say that he tried to make something, anything happen. If he had any shred of respect for the fans he would tell us whether or not he tried to do what was an absolutely no brainer move for at least one defender. He has bought into this culture of secrecy which has enveloped the club and has neither the guts nor the brain to opt out of it.
He and Lerner and Faulkner have something I care about very deeply in their care. I don't think they know or care enough about Aston Villa FC.
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What did he achieve with Colchester, Brian?
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He thumped Norwich for a start but I was referring to what he did in an abstract sense in that he showed enough ability to make Norwich poach him.
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Well I am playing Football Manager and Villa have just hired Pulis, dread the thought.
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Well I am playing Football Manager and Villa have just hired Pulis, dread the thought.
They'll be dancing in the streets of Douglas.
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Well I am playing Football Manager and Villa have just hired Pulis, dread the thought.
They'll be dancing in the streets of Douglas.
Like
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They'll be dancing in the streets of Newcastle, Southampton, Stoke and just about everywhere else that we kept the mumbling cretin.
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If we do go down, getting rid of Lambert for taking us down should not be the reason. The reason should be because there is somebody more suitable to bring us back up with a stronger squad and something building for the future.
My major concern about Lambert is regarding the defensive side of the game. Norwich had a poor defensive record last season and we have been defensively poor pretty much all season. Attacking wise, we have shown signs of promise, but we have been so naive defensively (all over the pitch not just at the back) that I do wonder if Lambert and his coaching staff struggle with that side of the game.
There is
no wondering, they are pig awful at it clearly. But in other areas there are clear signs of marked improvement.
The failure to get a centre back in Jan may well see us relegated, but I would still give Lambert the first 3-4 months of next season to bring us back up, which I think he would.
I just think he'll be a managerial dead man walking if that happens, bit like Coyle at Bolton.
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Brian, you dress up opinion as fact but it's opinion based on the scarcest of information. If you've been paying attention you'll see that we had interest in players in January but they were asking for more than we can afford. The club have been cost cutting for 2 years so it can't have come as a surprise to anyone that the manager has financial constraints under which he knows he has to work. It would therefore be pretty pathetic of him to play the sort of games you suggest when he signed up to those terms just 6 months ago.
We, as fans, might not like it but to that's Aston Villa in 2013.
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If QPR or Newcastle get relegated their huge spend up to avoid relegation could see them flounder for years. It all comes back to the fact that any club in the prem except the top four or five could find themselves relegated but only three could possibly win the Prem. What the owners of Man City are thinking after spending the annual budget of any small country only to be 15 points of United i would like to know.
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They'll be dancing in the streets of Newcastle, Southampton, Stoke and just about everywhere else that we kept the mumbling cretin.
Not a fan, Risso?
*wink*
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What the owners of Man City are thinking after spending the annual budget of any small country only to be 15 points of United i would like to know.
They are probably wondering what colour Range Rover to give their favourite Saker Falcon for his birthday.
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End of the day, if you spend 25m on a team that finished 16th under most supporter's idea of the worse possible manager then finishing higher or indeed 16th shouldn't be out of the question. Its not like Lerner asset stripped the squad in the summer and made it noticably worse - he let Ivanhoe, collins and cuellar go, presumably with lambchop's full consent.
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End of the day, if you spend 25m on a team that finished 16th under most supporter's idea of the worse possible manager then finishing higher or indeed 16th shouldn't be out of the question. Its not like Lerner asset stripped the squad in the summer and made it noticably worse - he let Ivanhoe, collins and cuellar go, presumably with lambchop's full consent.
End of the day, 25m?
You've been told a million times not to exaggerate, Greg! Lambert has spent £20m, tops, on transfer fees.
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According to the transfer league site its £25.7 m including sylla.
Not sure thats totally accurate but certainly closer to 25m than the 20m tops that you suggest.
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Good to know that we spent enough to buy Ronaldo's left foot.!
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According to the transfer league site its £25.7 m including sylla.
Not sure thats totally accurate but certainly closer to 25m than the 20m tops that you suggest.
And it wasn't anywhere near enough.
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According to the transfer league site its £25.7 m including sylla.
Not sure thats totally accurate but certainly closer to 25m than the 20m tops that you suggest.
And it wasn't anywhere near enough.
It might have been had it been spent more intelligently.
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According to the transfer league site its £25.7 m including sylla.
Not sure thats totally accurate but certainly closer to 25m than the 20m tops that you suggest.
And it wasn't anywhere near enough.
It was a lot more than the majority of premier clubs spent .
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According to the transfer league site its £25.7 m including sylla.
Not sure thats totally accurate but certainly closer to 25m than the 20m tops that you suggest.
Mea culpa - apologies to you, Greg (and thanks, eastie).
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According to the transfer league site its £25.7 m including sylla.
Not sure thats totally accurate but certainly closer to 25m than the 20m tops that you suggest.
And it wasn't anywhere near enough.
It was a lot more than the majority of premier clubs spent .
Had the majority of Premier League clubs just finished in the bottom six, with 7 wins and 38 points?
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According to the transfer league site its £25.7 m including sylla.
Not sure thats totally accurate but certainly closer to 25m than the 20m tops that you suggest.
And it wasn't anywhere near enough.
It might have been had it been spent more intelligently.
Purchased:
Yacouba Sylla £2,112,000 **
Christian Benteke £7,744,000
Ashley Westwood £2,200,000
Jason Bowery £554,400 **
Joe Bennett £2,772,000 **
Ron Vlaar £3,344,000
Matthew Lowton £3,300,000
Karim El Ahmadi £2,460,000 **
Brett Holman Free T
Simon Dawkins Loan
Brad Guzan N/A
£24,486,400
If he'd invested the monies asterisked (£7.9m) more effectively, what could we have got? 1 DMF plus a LB or a CB?
Could have made all the difference.
The problem is that at the time, Lambert must have thought that KEA and Bennett were capable of making the step up to the EPL (rather than being squad or development players). The Sylla transfer I don't understand at all, given the timing / needs of hte team.
As we know from MON's era, managers rarely get a 100% transfer success, and - as has been said elsewhere - he must have thought that he'd get more from the experienced players he inherited.
I think it is these latter players that have let us down, not PL's transfers (perhaps KEA excepted).
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According to the transfer league site its £25.7 m including sylla.
Not sure thats totally accurate but certainly closer to 25m than the 20m tops that you suggest.
And it wasn't anywhere near enough.
It was a lot more than the majority of premier clubs spent .
Had the majority of Premier League clubs just finished in the bottom six, with 7 wins and 38 points?
So you take a team that finished 16th , spend 25m and are now 18th? Where is the success in that?
Lambert is tactically inept, his formations, selections lack of motivational skills worry me far more than his transfer buying- a manager looking totally out of his comfort zone and depth.
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Lambert is tactically inept ...
although that was the very capability for which he was lauded when he joined; his astuteness in changing tactics mid-game, to adapt to the conditions / opposition.
It's weird, because I agree that he has shown tactical / selection weakness.
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Lambert is tactically inept ...
although that was the very capability for which he was lauded when he joined; his astuteness in changing tactics mid-game, to adapt to the conditions / opposition.
It's weird, because I agree that he has shown tactical / selection weakness.
Its happened with other managers when moving to a bigger club, i just think the club is too big for him unfortunately in a similar way to when mike walker left norwich for goodison.
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He's been shown up tactically on a few occasions, the Bradford 2nd leg being one of them. I still think there's a good manager in Lambert though. Whether that is with us remains to be seen but i hope so.
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He's been shown up tactically on a few occasions, the Bradford 2nd leg being one of them. I still think there's a good manager in Lambert though. Whether that is with us remains to be seen but i hope so.
I think as Eastie says, the club has proved to be too big for him, and he has got the approach all wrong since he's been here.
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According to the transfer league site its £25.7 m including sylla.
Not sure thats totally accurate but certainly closer to 25m than the 20m tops that you suggest.
And it wasn't anywhere near enough.
It might have been had it been spent more intelligently.
Purchased:
Yacouba Sylla £2,112,000 **
Christian Benteke £7,744,000
Ashley Westwood £2,200,000
Jason Bowery £554,400 **
Joe Bennett £2,772,000 **
Ron Vlaar £3,344,000
Matthew Lowton £3,300,000
Karim El Ahmadi £2,460,000 **
Brett Holman Free T
Simon Dawkins Loan
Brad Guzan N/A
£24,486,400
If he'd invested the monies asterisked (£7.9m) more effectively, what could we have got? 1 DMF plus a LB or a CB?
Could have made all the difference.
The problem is that at the time, Lambert must have thought that KEA and Bennett were capable of making the step up to the EPL (rather than being squad or development players). The Sylla transfer I don't understand at all, given the timing / needs of hte team.
As we know from MON's era, managers rarely get a 100% transfer success, and - as has been said elsewhere - he must have thought that he'd get more from the experienced players he inherited.
I think it is these latter players that have let us down, not PL's transfers (perhaps KEA excepted).
Flippin eck, we've no idea yet about how Sylla will do, Bennett is an U19,U20 and U21 player for England, Bowery cost virtually nothing. El Ahmadi has been disappointing granted but other than that those signings aren't that bad.
When you factor in low wages too, it's not bad value.
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End of the day, if you spend 25m on a team that finished 16th under most supporter's idea of the worse possible manager then finishing higher or indeed 16th shouldn't be out of the question. Its not like Lerner asset stripped the squad in the summer and made it noticably worse - he let Ivanhoe, collins and cuellar go, presumably with lambchop's full consent.
That squad also had Petrov and Dunne for the majority of the previous season, plus Hutton and Warnock. I know it was Lambert's decision to not play the latter two, but when you judge the spend as you have it needs to be factored in.
So in reality, the squad that finished 16th and had £25m spent on it had lost 7 international players.
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If he'd invested the monies asterisked (£7.9m) more effectively, what could we have got? 1 DMF plus a LB or a CB?
Could have made all the difference.
I think the thing to ask is if we had spent that £7.9m on the 2/3 players you mention, what woud we have got for it if looking for PL experience?
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But when he inherited a pool of central midfielders of Bannan, Herd, Delph and Ireland and I dont understand why he spent £7 mill on 3 potentially good players (KEA, Sylla and Westwood), that money should have been spent on one experienced player who knew the League. We are now left with a large pool of 7/8 central midfielders and yet still lack exactly what we lacked 12 months ago, a decent replacement for Stan, which we can't afford as the squad is clogged up with KEA, Sylla, Bowery etc.
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According to the transfer league site its £25.7 m including sylla.
Not sure thats totally accurate but certainly closer to 25m than the 20m tops that you suggest.
And it wasn't anywhere near enough.
It was a lot more than the majority of premier clubs spent .
Had the majority of Premier League clubs just finished in the bottom six, with 7 wins and 38 points?
So you take a team that finished 16th , spend 25m and are now 18th? Where is the success in that?
Lambert is tactically inept, his formations, selections lack of motivational skills worry me far more than his transfer buying- a manager looking totally out of his comfort zone and depth.
What has any of that got to do with the original point?
Our squad was poor last season, it needed a lot of work or a lot of gems to be unearthed. The proper funding was not given, so we're struggling again.
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But when he inherited a pool of central midfielders of Bannan, Herd, Delph and Ireland and I dont understand why he spent £7 mill on 3 potentially good players (KEA, Sylla and Westwood), that money should have been spent on one experienced player who knew the League. We are now left with a large pool of 7/8 central midfielders and yet still lack exactly what we lacked 12 months ago, a decent replacement for Stan, which we can't afford as the squad is clogged up with KEA, Sylla, Bowery etc.
It's a good point, but then I reckon if you reviewed the transfer thread from the summer just about everyone who was doing their 'this is what he need' list would have been looking at more than one midfielder. He's also said he sees Herd as more of a CB, which as it happens I disagree with him on, so that's three for a formation that plays three, so effectively no reserves?
As it goes, I reckon KEA was the Petrov replacement he had in mind. So that goes down as a mistake on his part, at least in the short term.
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Sadly, I think the one signing we needed to work more than the others was that of KEA, and it hasn't.
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I think with their experience and the positions they play in we needed KEA and Vlaar to work out well and I don't think either have up to now.
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I think with their experience and the positions they play in we needed KEA and Vlaar to work out well and I don't think either have up to now.
I have no complaints about Vlaar. But with KEA you do get the feeling that if he had lived up to his early season promise we wouldn't be where we are now!
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I think Vlaar looks decent, it is just the fact in terms of injuries, he seems to be made more of crystal than concrete.
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Vlaar's ok when fit.
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Vlaar's ok when fit.
I agree. It's just that I expected/we needed better than ok.
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I think Vlaar looks decent, it is just the fact in terms of injuries, he seems to be made more of crystal than concrete.
I'd say he's marginally less injury free than Baker who's make up consists of a house made of cards
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Sadly, I think the one signing we needed to work more than the others was that of KEA, and it hasn't.
Him and Blancmange Ron really, both as disappointing as each other.
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Lambert forecast kea would be a quality player this season and in pre season we could see why, however he been extremely disappointing .
Vlaar has been ok but nothing special, nowhere near the mellberg or laursen class that i hoped he would be.
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Vlaar's ok when fit.
I agree. It's just that I expected/we needed better than ok.
Vlaar wasn't a young prospect or unknown quantity - 27 year old Dutch international from Ajax. Given that and the fact he only cost around £3.5m, should we have been expecting more?
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Vlaar's ok when fit.
I agree. It's just that I expected/we needed better than ok.
Vlaar wasn't a young prospect or unknown quantity - 27 year old Dutch international from Ajax. Given that and the fact he only cost around £3.5m, should we have been expecting more?
Vlaar wasnt from ajax.
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Lambert forecast kea would be a quality player this season and in pre season we could see why, however he been extremely disappointing .
Vlaar has been ok but nothing special, nowhere near the mellberg or laursen class that i hoped he would be.
Not even in the Collins class to be brutally honest.
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Lambert forecast kea would be a quality player this season and in pre season we could see why, however he been extremely disappointing .
Vlaar has been ok but nothing special, nowhere near the mellberg or laursen class that i hoped he would be.
Not even in the Collins class to be brutally honest.
Agreed. Vlaar has been pretty average all season and at times just shit. His nickname is just embarrassing.
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Lambert forecast kea would be a quality player this season and in pre season we could see why, however he been extremely disappointing .
Vlaar has been ok but nothing special, nowhere near the mellberg or laursen class that i hoped he would be.
Not even in the Collins class to be brutally honest.
Agreed. Vlaar has been pretty average all season and at times just shit. His nickname is just embarrassing.
It should be. Embarrassing Ron.
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"It's unfair to just criticise the defence, we are in it together.
"We've got to stop it collectively, not just the defenders.
"The injury situation is not helping us, we've got a lot at the minute, but you have to go with what you've got.
"The three lads at the back are the same three lads that played against Liverpool."
These comments suggest to me that lambert was maybe putting all his eggs in one basket and relying on dunne being fit as he was close to returning - now the window has gone and dunne has had a relapse we are woefully short at the back.
As the window closed dunne was just returning to training but it now seems he is a long way off again .Did lambert decide with dunne coming back the defence didnt need strenghtening - if so a huge gamble that backfired.
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I think Vlaar's performances should be quantified by the fact that he's been put alongside the weakest back four I've ever seen physically. You can argue the merits of the players, but the likes of Clark, Baker, Lowton and Bennett just seem physically less able than those they come up against.
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Ron Vlaar has proved to be not particularly good at any aspect of the game. Certainly not a great header of the ball but does have a modicum of skill. As ive said before for the 2.5/3mil we paid for him hes ok and thats about it really.
Never was a nickname so far from the truth.
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Ron Vlaar has proved to be not particularly good at any aspect of the game. Certainly not a great header of the ball but does have a modicum of skill. As ive said before for the 2.5/3mil we paid for him hes ok and thats about it really.
Never was a nickname so far from the truth.
With world cup year approaching if he decides to jump ship if we are relegated i doubt he would attract interest from any premier clubs.
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Ron Vlaar has proved to be not particularly good at any aspect of the game. Certainly not a great header of the ball but does have a modicum of skill. As ive said before for the 2.5/3mil we paid for him hes ok and thats about it really.
Never was a nickname so far from the truth.
With world cup year approaching if he decides to jump ship if we are relegated i doubt he would attract interest from any premier clubs.
A one-way ticket back to Holland with El Ahmadi and Holman on the same flight?
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End of the day, if you spend 25m on a team that finished 16th under most supporter's idea of the worse possible manager then finishing higher or indeed 16th shouldn't be out of the question. Its not like Lerner asset stripped the squad in the summer and made it noticably worse - he let Ivanhoe, collins and cuellar go, presumably with lambchop's full consent.
That squad also had Petrov and Dunne for the majority of the previous season, plus Hutton and Warnock. I know it was Lambert's decision to not play the latter two, but when you judge the spend as you have it needs to be factored in.
So in reality, the squad that finished 16th and had £25m spent on it had lost 7 international players.
Injuries are part and parcel of the game. Other teams down the bottom get them as well. I don't remember Houllier getting much leeway when he was knackered by injuries and lets face it, Dunne wasn't viewed as much of a loss before the chelsea game. Petrov ok, but its clear he had the money to replace him - he just didn't or bought the wrong player
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People are correct in saying the club spent £24m on new players.
It is not correct to assume that all of it was to bolster the squad that finished 16th. They were not all additions to the squad, some players brought in were to replace outgoing players e.g. Vlaar to replace Collins, Benteke to replace Heskey, KEA to replace Petrov, Lowton to replace Hutton and Bennett to replace Warnock.
Where it went wrong to some extent was not being able to move Hutton and Warnock on last summer and freeing up some more money to spend. So, last summer the net increase in the squad was Westwood, Bowery and Holmann which is hardly a £24m strengthening of the squad and also bearing in mind Cuellar was not replaced. Add to this, Dunne's injury, Ireland playing no better and getting little out of Gabby and CNZ in the first half of the season.
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Thanks old man, well put.
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People are correct in saying the club spent £24m on new players.
It is not correct to assume that all of it was to bolster the squad that finished 16th. They were not all additions to the squad, some players brought in were to replace outgoing players e.g. Vlaar to replace Collins, Benteke to replace Heskey, KEA to replace Petrov, Lowton to replace Hutton and Bennett to replace Warnock.
Where it went wrong to some extent was not being able to move Hutton and Warnock on last summer and freeing up some more money to spend. So, last summer the net increase in the squad was Westwood, Bowery and Holmann which is hardly a £24m strengthening of the squad and also bearing in mind Cuellar was not replaced. Add to this, Dunne's injury, Ireland playing no better and getting little out of Gabby and CNZ in the first half of the season.
The manager chose not to use warnock and hutton , he chose to sell collins and could have kept cuellar if he wished as he did with guzan - he is the one who chose to jettison an experienced back 4 and he is the one who striggled to get the best out of ireland , gabby , etc in the first 20 odd games - it was his decision to bring in 9 players none of whom had ever kicked a ball in the premiership - and he is the one who has struggled to find his best team and best formation .
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People are correct in saying the club spent £24m on new players.
It is not correct to assume that all of it was to bolster the squad that finished 16th. They were not all additions to the squad, some players brought in were to replace outgoing players e.g. Vlaar to replace Collins, Benteke to replace Heskey, KEA to replace Petrov, Lowton to replace Hutton and Bennett to replace Warnock.
Where it went wrong to some extent was not being able to move Hutton and Warnock on last summer and freeing up some more money to spend. So, last summer the net increase in the squad was Westwood, Bowery and Holmann which is hardly a £24m strengthening of the squad and also bearing in mind Cuellar was not replaced. Add to this, Dunne's injury, Ireland playing no better and getting little out of Gabby and CNZ in the first half of the season.
The manager chose not to use warnock and hutton , he chose to sell collins and could have kept cuellar if he wished as he did with guzan - he is the one who chose to jettison an experienced back 4 and he is the one who striggled to get the best out of ireland , gabby , etc in the first 20 odd games - it was his decision to bring in 9 players none of whom had ever kicked a ball in the premiership - and he is the one who has struggled to find his best team and best formation .
Whatever his mistakes, getting rid of that lot was the best thing he could have done.
The only one worth another chance was Collins, and that's why he was the only one anyone offered money for.
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and could have kept cuellar if he wished as he did with guzan
That's not quite true is it?
He could have offered him a new contract, but there's nothing that means he would have agreed to sign it. Not when there is a nice, chunky, Martin O'Neill-stamped contract waiting for him in the north-east.
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People are correct in saying the club spent £24m on new players.
It is not correct to assume that all of it was to bolster the squad that finished 16th. They were not all additions to the squad, some players brought in were to replace outgoing players e.g. Vlaar to replace Collins, Benteke to replace Heskey, KEA to replace Petrov, Lowton to replace Hutton and Bennett to replace Warnock.
Where it went wrong to some extent was not being able to move Hutton and Warnock on last summer and freeing up some more money to spend. So, last summer the net increase in the squad was Westwood, Bowery and Holmann which is hardly a £24m strengthening of the squad and also bearing in mind Cuellar was not replaced. Add to this, Dunne's injury, Ireland playing no better and getting little out of Gabby and CNZ in the first half of the season.
The manager chose not to use warnock and hutton , he chose to sell collins and could have kept cuellar if he wished as he did with guzan - he is the one who chose to jettison an experienced back 4 and he is the one who striggled to get the best out of ireland , gabby , etc in the first 20 odd games - it was his decision to bring in 9 players none of whom had ever kicked a ball in the premiership - and he is the one who has struggled to find his best team and best formation .
Whatever his mistakes, getting rid of that lot was the best thing he could have done.
The only one worth another chance was Collins, and that's why he was the only one anyone offered money for.
I don't think that is proving to be the case.
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I think he tried to do too much too soon , to lose so many experienced players and replace them with 9 players none who had ever played in the premiership has left us woefully short of experience - in theory it may seem a good idea but it needed a more gradual transition .
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According to the transfer league site its £25.7 m including sylla.
Not sure thats totally accurate but certainly closer to 25m than the 20m tops that you suggest.
And it wasn't anywhere near enough.
It might have been had it been spent more intelligently.
Think Risso and Ads are both right.
£25m wasn't enough when you look at the state of the squad when Lambert joined, but at the same time it hasn't been spent well.
As Pauliewalnuts pointed out, had KEA have been a success, we probably wouldn't be in the shit we're in now. We needed a strong midfielder to replace Petrov and he isn't it.
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People are correct in saying the club spent £24m on new players.
It is not correct to assume that all of it was to bolster the squad that finished 16th. They were not all additions to the squad, some players brought in were to replace outgoing players e.g. Vlaar to replace Collins, Benteke to replace Heskey, KEA to replace Petrov, Lowton to replace Hutton and Bennett to replace Warnock.
Where it went wrong to some extent was not being able to move Hutton and Warnock on last summer and freeing up some more money to spend. So, last summer the net increase in the squad was Westwood, Bowery and Holmann which is hardly a £24m strengthening of the squad and also bearing in mind Cuellar was not replaced. Add to this, Dunne's injury, Ireland playing no better and getting little out of Gabby and CNZ in the first half of the season.
The manager chose not to use warnock and hutton , he chose to sell collins and could have kept cuellar if he wished as he did with guzan - he is the one who chose to jettison an experienced back 4 and he is the one who striggled to get the best out of ireland , gabby , etc in the first 20 odd games - it was his decision to bring in 9 players none of whom had ever kicked a ball in the premiership - and he is the one who has struggled to find his best team and best formation .
Whatever his mistakes, getting rid of that lot was the best thing he could have done.
The only one worth another chance was Collins, and that's why he was the only one anyone offered money for.
I don't think that is proving to be the case.
I do.
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I think he tried to do too much too soon , to lose so many experienced players and replace them with 9 players none who had ever played in the premiership has left us woefully short of experience - in theory it may seem a good idea but it needed a more gradual transition .
Big fat Ron did something similar, but didn't wholly rely on youngsters.
To be fair to Billy McLambert, this direction is probably due to Lerner's Osbornomics.
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I think he tried to do too much too soon , to lose so many experienced players and replace them with 9 players none who had ever played in the premiership has left us woefully short of experience - in theory it may seem a good idea but it needed a more gradual transition .
Big fat Ron did something similar, but didn't wholly rely on youngsters.
To be fair to Billy McLambert, this direction is probably due to Lerner's Osbornomics.
Exactly , ron brought in some experience with the likes of regis, richardson, staunton , supplemented by people like teale and atkinson whereas lambert has signed nobody with any premiership experience at all.
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I still think Lerner has to largely carry the can for this mess though.
For all we know, Mumbles might well have wanted to sign some experience, but might have been stopped by the desire to bring the wage bill down.
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There are two approaches aren't there?
We knew there was a lot of dross in the squad that needed to go and that the club have underperformed from where we all expect to be for years.
So Lambert decided to wholesale ditch and try and rebuild with youth; a risky strategy short term but with perceived long term benefits.
The other view is to bring in the same number of players but some of whom were older, wiser and more expensive (which we all know is something Lerner probably baulked at).
I'm happy with the theory behind Lambert's approach to it, though it's risky. I'm firmly of the belief that even if we go down, we will come back and be stronger in the long term.
Whichever way you look at it, it's very, very risky taking a chance on relegation.
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I'm firmly of the belief that even if we go down, we will come back and be stronger in the long term.
Sorry, but I'm not as forgiving. If he takes us down he should be sacked and escorted off the premises as soon as the final whistle goes at Reading (assuming we havent already been relegated by then).
If he keeps us up and Lerner stubbornly refuses to sack him, Lambert needs to start thinking of an alternative strategy to the one that's failing miserably at the moment. Buy a couple of brick walls with solid premier league experience to put in the centre of defence and the centre of midfield.
The side we have at the moment has no chance of getting out of the championship bear pit. They don't have the fight in them.
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People seem to forget the state we were in at the end of last season. We were awful and would have been relegated by some distance if it weren't for the 13 points in 7 games start we made. This wasn't a bad spell, it had been the same since October/November time.
The poverty of the football beggared belief.The approach Lambert took was the only one that would turn it around. It was risky but nothing like as risky as trying (yet again) to flog winning football out of the likes of Hutton, Warnock, Dunne & co. We had no choice but to take risk.
Bringing 2,3 or 4 players into the kind of ethos our squad had would have done nothing but drag the newcomers down.
If we do fail this season it won't be because of the players that were bought or sold. It will be down to the ones we didn't buy or should have got rid of but couldn't.
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I don't think there is anything wrong with the strategy of moving on some of the older relics of MON's era, and blooding youth products plus young players we've bought in from elsewhere.
The problem is that, if you are going to promote youth, then to do it properly, you have to be very very careful about how you introduce them. That, in my mind, is where we have got it wrong.
I know it is hard to compare the two clubs, but there are points to be drawn from looking at how Ferguson introduced that golden generation of kids in the 90s - especially Giggs - slowly but surely.
I appreciate that injuries have taken a toll this year, and that they probably didn't expect to have to play so many kids at once. However, the flip side of that is that the squad, not just the first XI, is too reliant on kids. Had there been more experience available, we'd have had better options to come in.
I also worry what the effect of this season will be on some of these younger players. I firmly believe that the hangover of getting drubbed by 8 (an 8 which could have been an 18, to be honest) at Chelsea has contributed hugely to our run of terrible form since then.
We've hit on a decent strategy, the execution of it has been poor, though. Too lopsided, and somewhat naive to think we can become like Ajax at all, let alone in the space of one season.
We've then gone about this new strategy way, way too quickly, and will probably get relegated as a result.
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It depends upon what you mean by poor Paulie. The signings made have been pretty good on the whole. Where we were at risk was the notion that Dunne would be fit (and effective) reasonably soon, and that the one international midfielder we signed would be a success. We have paid dearly for both not being the case.
The re-signing of Guzan and the capture of Lowton, Westwood and especially Benteke were the sort of things O'Neill should have been doing when the going was good.
The Chelsea defeat was a killer. Not just in itself, but also that it came at a time when we had no choice but to go into the next few games with players who really needed a break to take stock. Dunne as ever was injured, Vlaar too.
What may actually save us is where Lambert has put his faith in younger players and it has paid dividends. Weimann's and Benteke's goals need to keep coming.
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If we go down and Lambert doesn't get sacked, how will the club reconcile that with the comments that were made when the original TSM was sacked.
How can you possibly keep someone in a job that has performed worse than the previous incumbent was sacked for ?
Surely, whats good for the goose......... ?
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If we go down and Lambert doesn't get sacked, how will the club reconcile that with the comments that were made when the original TSM was sacked.
How can you possibly keep someone in a job that has performed worse than the previous incumbent was sacked for ?
Surely, whats good for the goose......... ?
Indeed. I still think he'd be on a hiding to nothing anyway if he stayed after relegation. He may well be capable of getting us promoted but he'd have to get off to a complete flyer. Knocking around the play-off places and a few disappointing results come Christmas would not be acceptable. The drop in the percieved standard of the opposition would in effect raise the bar expectation wise.
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If we go down and Lambert doesn't get sacked, how will the club reconcile that with the comments that were made when the original TSM was sacked.
How can you possibly keep someone in a job that has performed worse than the previous incumbent was sacked for ?
Surely, whats good for the goose......... ?
The thing is, where does it stop? If the next manager struggles when do we sack him? At some point a more reflective, less reactionary view has to prevail. The club surely must, at some point, have the courage of its convictions and stick with an appointment despite setbacks.
If we have a new manager for next season, we'll be on our 5th different manager in as many seasons. Surely, that must be time for even the most blood thirsty of you to stop and consider whether the approach is working.
Wanting somebody yo carry the can for relegation is understandable but in this case I think we need to take a more long term view.
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It stops when we get a manager who delivers the results that he is paid to do - do a good job and you stay , do a bad job and you can expect the sack.
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It stops when we get a manager who delivers the results that he is paid to do - do a good job and you stay , do a bad job and you can expect the sack.
Well that approach has worked swimmingly so far.
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nobody should be rewarded for failure. if Lambert gets us relegated he's history or should be. Who cares if he's the fifth manager in so many years.
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nobody should be rewarded for failure. if Lambert gets us relegated he's history or should be. Who cares if he's the fifth manager in so many years.
It's not learning from your mistakes, it's myopic, it's like a Bluebottle repeatedly flying into the window.
At some point the club has to have the courage of its convictions and stick with an appointment, even if it does mean taking a step backwards to start with.
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nobody should be rewarded for failure. if Lambert gets us relegated he's history or should be. Who cares if he's the fifth manager in so many years.
Lots of people, and rightly so.
For starters, changing manager every season isn't cheap, it costs a fortune. Then there is the lack of continuity in ripping it up and starting again (which is now on my internal jukebox) every year.
Last summer, after last season but also with the cumulative shitness of the one before too, we were in a desperate mess. Sometimes that sort of situation takes longer, and more money, to sort out than you'd like.
Going back to not caring if we've had five managers in however much time, how often do teams with that sort of managerial turnover do well? And there's no point throwing Chelsea at me, because, well, firstly it is contestable, and secondly, we don't have a squad of world class players at our disposal.
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I have supported Lambert so far I like to think there is something good that might come out of this carnage of a season
But if he takes us down then I think he will have to go
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i honestly find it impossible for Lambert apologists to justify a case for keeping the bloke if he takes us down, when TSM was sacked for keeping us up. The managerial merry go round arguement is neither here nor there. Why stick with a manager that isn't performing? Especially as he has had more money to spend that McLeish did and for one reason or another has seemingly alienated senior first team players who just might have helped the less experienced. Yet more compo probably doesn't come into it either. Even our lot are not so stupid as to have not put in clauses which obviate compensation payments in the event of relegation. Surely?
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If we go down and Lambert doesn't get sacked, how will the club reconcile that with the comments that were made when the original TSM was sacked.
How can you possibly keep someone in a job that has performed worse than the previous incumbent was sacked for ?
Surely, whats good for the goose......... ?
The thing is, where does it stop? If the next manager struggles when do we sack him? At some point a more reflective, less reactionary view has to prevail. The club surely must, at some point, have the courage of its convictions and stick with an appointment despite setbacks.
If we have a new manager for next season, we'll be on our 5th different manager in as many seasons. Surely, that must be time for even the most blood thirsty of you to stop and consider whether the approach is working.
Well said Chris, this is why The Tory Government should be given another five years when we get to the next election.
Sure, it's been a nightmare, but we need some continuity.
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i honestly find it impossible for Lambert apologists to justify a case for keeping the bloke if he takes us down, when TSM was sacked for keeping us up. The managerial merry go round arguement is neither here nor there. Why stick with a manager that isn't performing?
That's the point.
You say "it is neither here nor there" as if you can just ignore that argument, but lots of people disagree with you.
As already said, a lot of us want to see Lambert given more time to build the club in the way he sees fit. What's more, we can also see that the amount of money to do so isn't going to be enormous, so wasting even more getting rid of him and his team to get a new team in looks daft.
re McLeish - you can't just pretend he didn't happen. We are one year further down the line, now. We've already wasted several million pounds getting shot of him and Peter Grant and god knows who else, and the club has that extra year of decline to get rid of.
The majority of Lambert supporters can see that there is a decent team in there somewhere, which would be improved immeasurably by one or two additions. We'd rather he got the chance to do that than just spunk all the suffering away and start afresh.
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If we go down and Lambert doesn't get sacked, how will the club reconcile that with the comments that were made when the original TSM was sacked.
How can you possibly keep someone in a job that has performed worse than the previous incumbent was sacked for ?
Surely, whats good for the goose......... ?
The thing is, where does it stop? If the next manager struggles when do we sack him? At some point a more reflective, less reactionary view has to prevail. The club surely must, at some point, have the courage of its convictions and stick with an appointment despite setbacks.
If we have a new manager for next season, we'll be on our 5th different manager in as many seasons. Surely, that must be time for even the most blood thirsty of you to stop and consider whether the approach is working.
Well said Chris, this is why The Tory Government should be given another five years when we get to the next election.
Sure, it's been a nightmare, but we need some continuity.
It's not an appropriate analogy, football clubs aren't a democracy and I won't get a vote on who manages us.
This debate has polarised almost completely now, I doubt any of us are going to change our minds.
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If we go down and Lambert doesn't get sacked, how will the club reconcile that with the comments that were made when the original TSM was sacked.
How can you possibly keep someone in a job that has performed worse than the previous incumbent was sacked for ?
Surely, whats good for the goose......... ?
The thing is, where does it stop? If the next manager struggles when do we sack him? At some point a more reflective, less reactionary view has to prevail. The club surely must, at some point, have the courage of its convictions and stick with an appointment despite setbacks.
If we have a new manager for next season, we'll be on our 5th different manager in as many seasons. Surely, that must be time for even the most blood thirsty of you to stop and consider whether the approach is working.
Well said Chris, this is why The Tory Government should be given another five years when we get to the next election.
Sure, it's been a nightmare, but we need some continuity.
It's not an appropriate analogy, football clubs aren't a democracy and I won't get a vote on who manages us.
This debate has polarised almost completely now, I doubt any of us are going to change our minds.
Yes its going the same way as the O'Neill debate- almost a 50/50 split.
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If we go down and Lambert doesn't get sacked, how will the club reconcile that with the comments that were made when the original TSM was sacked.
How can you possibly keep someone in a job that has performed worse than the previous incumbent was sacked for ?
Surely, whats good for the goose......... ?
The thing is, where does it stop? If the next manager struggles when do we sack him? At some point a more reflective, less reactionary view has to prevail. The club surely must, at some point, have the courage of its convictions and stick with an appointment despite setbacks.
If we have a new manager for next season, we'll be on our 5th different manager in as many seasons. Surely, that must be time for even the most blood thirsty of you to stop and consider whether the approach is working.
Well said Chris, this is why The Tory Government should be given another five years when we get to the next election.
Sure, it's been a nightmare, but we need some continuity.
It's not an appropriate analogy, football clubs aren't a democracy and I won't get a vote on who manages us.
We don't get a vote With Villa either, But Chris, you would get rid of the Tories tomorrow due to incompetence, what if I argued that
'they need more time to rectify the shit that the previous administration inflicted on us.'
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If we go down and Lambert doesn't get sacked, how will the club reconcile that with the comments that were made when the original TSM was sacked.
How can you possibly keep someone in a job that has performed worse than the previous incumbent was sacked for ?
Surely, whats good for the goose......... ?
The thing is, where does it stop? If the next manager struggles when do we sack him? At some point a more reflective, less reactionary view has to prevail. The club surely must, at some point, have the courage of its convictions and stick with an appointment despite setbacks.
If we have a new manager for next season, we'll be on our 5th different manager in as many seasons. Surely, that must be time for even the most blood thirsty of you to stop and consider whether the approach is working.
Well said Chris, this is why The Tory Government should be given another five years when we get to the next election.
Sure, it's been a nightmare, but we need some continuity.
It's not an appropriate analogy, football clubs aren't a democracy and I won't get a vote on who manages us.
This debate has polarised almost completely now, I doubt any of us are going to change our minds.
Yes its going the same way as the O'Neill debate- almost a 50/50 split.
If we go down I would forecast that the outs will be in the majority
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I see no problem in getting rid of bad managers, coaches or players.
If any show some promise for the future then there is merit in sticking with someone through a bad patch.
As has been said before so little needed to be done this season to turn a terrible side into an adequate one, to see the club through a rocky spell and keep Premier League status intact. We may still be in the league by the end of May, but it won't be as a result of any positive action, more a "fingers crossed" dare I say it "we'll be ok" policy based on hope and little else.
That is not good enough for Aston Villa.
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If we go down and Lambert doesn't get sacked, how will the club reconcile that with the comments that were made when the original TSM was sacked.
How can you possibly keep someone in a job that has performed worse than the previous incumbent was sacked for ?
Surely, whats good for the goose......... ?
The thing is, where does it stop? If the next manager struggles when do we sack him? At some point a more reflective, less reactionary view has to prevail. The club surely must, at some point, have the courage of its convictions and stick with an appointment despite setbacks.
If we have a new manager for next season, we'll be on our 5th different manager in as many seasons. Surely, that must be time for even the most blood thirsty of you to stop and consider whether the approach is working.
Well said Chris, this is why The Tory Government should be given another five years when we get to the next election.
Sure, it's been a nightmare, but we need some continuity.
It's not an appropriate analogy, football clubs aren't a democracy and I won't get a vote on who manages us.
We don't get a vote With Villa either, But Chris, you would get rid of the Tories tomorrow due to incompetence, what if I argued that
'they need more time to rectify the shit that the previous administration inflicted on us.'
Don't try and use logic in a political debate!
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If we go down and Lambert doesn't get sacked, how will the club reconcile that with the comments that were made when the original TSM was sacked.
How can you possibly keep someone in a job that has performed worse than the previous incumbent was sacked for ?
Surely, whats good for the goose......... ?
The thing is, where does it stop? If the next manager struggles when do we sack him? At some point a more reflective, less reactionary view has to prevail. The club surely must, at some point, have the courage of its convictions and stick with an appointment despite setbacks.
If we have a new manager for next season, we'll be on our 5th different manager in as many seasons. Surely, that must be time for even the most blood thirsty of you to stop and consider whether the approach is working.
Well said Chris, this is why The Tory Government should be given another five years when we get to the next election.
Sure, it's been a nightmare, but we need some continuity.
It's not an appropriate analogy, football clubs aren't a democracy and I won't get a vote on who manages us.
We don't get a vote With Villa either, But Chris, you would get rid of the Tories tomorrow due to incompetence, what if I argued that
'they need more time to rectify the shit that the previous administration inflicted on us.'
I'd say I didn't vote for them last time and nothing they have done has convinced me that I was wrong. So I'd be remaining consistent.
I didn't have an opportunity to vote for Lambert.
It just doesn't work as an analogy.
I want him to be kept on because I think he has shown potential and because I'm sick and tired of the club lurching about like a drunk on Broad Street.
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I have a question, and call me naive if you wish, but IF we go down then why on God's green Earth should we have to pay off Lambert if we want to sack him? He's surely failed at his job. To be perfectly honest I don't think McLeish should have got a cent in pay off because the job he did here was woeful. An abject failure.
I hate the way this game has gone where even crapness has to be rewarded and we have to pay to rid ourselves of shit managers.
I fully understand why someone like RDM should get compensation for being fired, but in the case of a whole season of abject shitness, Randy should be within his rights to turf a mo-fo out.
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I'd hope he'd have the decency to resign if he relegates us. If not then he has to be removed from the job. Relegation is not acceptable to a club who has spent more time in the top division of English football than every other club in the land bar one. Sticking with him is just mental. Couldn't care less how much it would cost us. We are a proud club and relegation would be a humiliation. Sack him, and never let him darken our door again.
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We are not going down
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I'd hope he'd have the decency to resign if he relegates us. If not then he has to be removed from the job. Relegation is not acceptable to a club who has spent more time in the top division of English football than every other club in the land bar one. Sticking with him is just mental. Couldn't care less how much it would cost us. We are a proud club and relegation would be a humiliation. Sack him, and never let him darken our door again.
To a business hardened owner who accepted nothing but the best I think that would be the attitude.
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What I don't get about Lambert is why his touch seems to have failed (thus far) at Villa. Good record at Colchester, spanks Norwich, gets poached by them straight after and then not only gets the team promoted to the top division, but puts in a very handy performance in his debut PL season.
It's as if we've got the twin brother while he takes a break.
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What I don't get about Lambert is why his touch seems to have failed (thus far) at Villa. Good record at Colchester, spanks Norwich, gets poached by them straight after and then not only gets the team promoted to the top division, but puts in a very handy performance in his debut PL season.
It's as if we've got the twin brother while he takes a break.
His record was nothing special at Colchester at all. A club the size of Norwich should always be too big for League 1, so I'd say his real achievements were taking them up from the Championship and keeping them there. But then a few managers have managed a couple of good seasons before disappearing from whence they came.
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People are correct in saying the club spent £24m on new players.
It is not correct to assume that all of it was to bolster the squad that finished 16th. They were not all additions to the squad, some players brought in were to replace outgoing players e.g. Vlaar to replace Collins, Benteke to replace Heskey, KEA to replace Petrov, Lowton to replace Hutton and Bennett to replace Warnock.
Where it went wrong to some extent was not being able to move Hutton and Warnock on last summer and freeing up some more money to spend. So, last summer the net increase in the squad was Westwood, Bowery and Holmann which is hardly a £24m strengthening of the squad and also bearing in mind Cuellar was not replaced. Add to this, Dunne's injury, Ireland playing no better and getting little out of Gabby and CNZ in the first half of the season.
The manager chose not to use warnock and hutton , he chose to sell collins and could have kept cuellar if he wished as he did with guzan - he is the one who chose to jettison an experienced back 4 and he is the one who striggled to get the best out of ireland , gabby , etc in the first 20 odd games - it was his decision to bring in 9 players none of whom had ever kicked a ball in the premiership - and he is the one who has struggled to find his best team and best formation .
We may argue about the effectiveness of the money spent on transfers by Lambert but it seems as though we are in agreement that the money was not spent on adding to the squad, rather, replacing players sold or those not performing. So, perhaps, we can put that one to bed.
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What I don't get about Lambert is why his touch seems to have failed (thus far) at Villa. Good record at Colchester, spanks Norwich, gets poached by them straight after and then not only gets the team promoted to the top division, but puts in a very handy performance in his debut PL season.
It's as if we've got the twin brother while he takes a break.
His record was nothing special at Colchester at all. A club the size of Norwich should always be too big for League 1, so I'd say his real achievements were taking them up from the Championship and keeping them there. But then a few managers have managed a couple of good seasons before disappearing from whence they came.
Spot on. I don't hear anyone asking for Paul Jewel.
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I just do not get it. It is as though money is no object to some of you. Clearly, the club does not have much money to spend, even less if we get relegated. I have said it before, if we get relegated, Lambert should not be sacked for getting us relegated but because there are better future prospects in appointing somebody else. To read some of the comments, it is though you want to punish Lambert if he takes us down, regardless as to whether it damages the future finances and stability of the club.
If we get relegated, yes I will be upset but I will continue to look forward, not back.
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What I don't get about Lambert is why his touch seems to have failed (thus far) at Villa. Good record at Colchester, spanks Norwich, gets poached by them straight after and then not only gets the team promoted to the top division, but puts in a very handy performance in his debut PL season.
It's as if we've got the twin brother while he takes a break.
His record was nothing special at Colchester at all. A club the size of Norwich should always be too big for League 1, so I'd say his real achievements were taking them up from the Championship and keeping them there. But then a few managers have managed a couple of good seasons before disappearing from whence they came.
Spot on. I don't hear anyone asking for Paul Jewel.
I also don't remember anyone on here in the summer moaning about Lambert.
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What I don't get about Lambert is why his touch seems to have failed (thus far) at Villa. Good record at Colchester, spanks Norwich, gets poached by them straight after and then not only gets the team promoted to the top division, but puts in a very handy performance in his debut PL season.
It's as if we've got the twin brother while he takes a break.
Or maybe it's because the club was in even more of a state than we thought it was?
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What I don't get about Lambert is why his touch seems to have failed (thus far) at Villa. Good record at Colchester, spanks Norwich, gets poached by them straight after and then not only gets the team promoted to the top division, but puts in a very handy performance in his debut PL season.
It's as if we've got the twin brother while he takes a break.
His record was nothing special at Colchester at all. A club the size of Norwich should always be too big for League 1, so I'd say his real achievements were taking them up from the Championship and keeping them there. But then a few managers have managed a couple of good seasons before disappearing from whence they came.
Spot on. I don't hear anyone asking for Paul Jewel.
You may not be a supporter that approved of the appointment of Lambert (I do not know one way or the other) but the majority of fans were. His managerial record before he came to Villa has not actually changed, although there are more people now voicing opinion that his record may not have been as good as it seemed at the time.
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What I don't get about Lambert is why his touch seems to have failed (thus far) at Villa. Good record at Colchester, spanks Norwich, gets poached by them straight after and then not only gets the team promoted to the top division, but puts in a very handy performance in his debut PL season.
It's as if we've got the twin brother while he takes a break.
His record was nothing special at Colchester at all. A club the size of Norwich should always be too big for League 1, so I'd say his real achievements were taking them up from the Championship and keeping them there. But then a few managers have managed a couple of good seasons before disappearing from whence they came.
Spot on. I don't hear anyone asking for Paul Jewel.
I also don't remember anyone on here in the summer moaning about Lambert.
Are you surprised after Alex McLeish?
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What I don't get about Lambert is why his touch seems to have failed (thus far) at Villa. Good record at Colchester, spanks Norwich, gets poached by them straight after and then not only gets the team promoted to the top division, but puts in a very handy performance in his debut PL season.
It's as if we've got the twin brother while he takes a break.
His record was nothing special at Colchester at all. A club the size of Norwich should always be too big for League 1, so I'd say his real achievements were taking them up from the Championship and keeping them there. But then a few managers have managed a couple of good seasons before disappearing from whence they came.
He was only at Colchester for less than a year and had a winning record, so wasn't a failure either. That they won 7-1 at Norwich before he left along with his winning record suggests he was doing more right than wrong.
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What I don't get about Lambert is why his touch seems to have failed (thus far) at Villa. Good record at Colchester, spanks Norwich, gets poached by them straight after and then not only gets the team promoted to the top division, but puts in a very handy performance in his debut PL season.
It's as if we've got the twin brother while he takes a break.
His record was nothing special at Colchester at all. A club the size of Norwich should always be too big for League 1, so I'd say his real achievements were taking them up from the Championship and keeping them there. But then a few managers have managed a couple of good seasons before disappearing from whence they came.
Spot on. I don't hear anyone asking for Paul Jewel.
I also don't remember anyone on here in the summer moaning about Lambert.
Are you surprised after Alex McLeish?
And before Sam Allardyce.
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I wanted lambert as manager but i certainly never expected things to be as bad this season as this .
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I just do not get it. It is as though money is no object to some of you. Clearly, the club does not have much money to spend, even less if we get relegated. I have said it before, if we get relegated, Lambert should not be sacked for getting us relegated but because there are better future prospects in appointing somebody else. To read some of the comments, it is though you want to punish Lambert if he takes us down, regardless as to whether it damages the future finances and stability of the club.
If we get relegated, yes I will be upset but I will continue to look forward, not back.
This.
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I just do not get it. It is as though money is no object to some of you. Clearly, the club does not have much money to spend, even less if we get relegated. I have said it before, if we get relegated, Lambert should not be sacked for getting us relegated but because there are better future prospects in appointing somebody else. To read some of the comments, it is though you want to punish Lambert if he takes us down, regardless as to whether it damages the future finances and stability of the club.
If we get relegated, yes I will be upset but I will continue to look forward, not back.
This.
Not this. It's not a question of "punishing" Lambert, merely just getting rid of an employee who has completely underperformed. Him relegating us will in itself, be a huge body blow to the future finances and stability of the club.
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I just do not get it. It is as though money is no object to some of you. Clearly, the club does not have much money to spend, even less if we get relegated. I have said it before, if we get relegated, Lambert should not be sacked for getting us relegated but because there are better future prospects in appointing somebody else. To read some of the comments, it is though you want to punish Lambert if he takes us down, regardless as to whether it damages the future finances and stability of the club.
If we get relegated, yes I will be upset but I will continue to look forward, not back.
This.
Not this. It's not a question of "punishing" Lambert, merely just getting rid of an employee who has completely underperformed. Him relegating us will in itself, be a huge body blow to the future finances and stability of the club.
This. ;)
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What I don't get about Lambert is why his touch seems to have failed (thus far) at Villa. Good record at Colchester, spanks Norwich, gets poached by them straight after and then not only gets the team promoted to the top division, but puts in a very handy performance in his debut PL season.
It's as if we've got the twin brother while he takes a break.
His record was nothing special at Colchester at all. A club the size of Norwich should always be too big for League 1, so I'd say his real achievements were taking them up from the Championship and keeping them there. But then a few managers have managed a couple of good seasons before disappearing from whence they came.
Spot on. I don't hear anyone asking for Paul Jewel.
I also don't remember anyone on here in the summer moaning about Lambert.
Are you surprised after Alex McLeish?
I point you towards the beginning of the Paul lambert thread, started halfway through the Alex Macleish season, where Lambert was already being touted as the ideal manager for Aston Villa. There more to the popularity of his appointment than being better than Alex Mcleish, and if there wasn't, why wasn't there also threads and mentions of a whole host of other managers in a similar manner?
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What I don't get about Lambert is why his touch seems to have failed (thus far) at Villa. Good record at Colchester, spanks Norwich, gets poached by them straight after and then not only gets the team promoted to the top division, but puts in a very handy performance in his debut PL season.
It's as if we've got the twin brother while he takes a break.
His record was nothing special at Colchester at all. A club the size of Norwich should always be too big for League 1, so I'd say his real achievements were taking them up from the Championship and keeping them there. But then a few managers have managed a couple of good seasons before disappearing from whence they came.
Spot on. I don't hear anyone asking for Paul Jewel.
I also don't remember anyone on here in the summer moaning about Lambert.
Are you surprised after Alex McLeish?
I point you towards the beginning of the Paul lambert thread, started halfway through the Alex Macleish season, where Lambert was already being touted as the ideal manager for Aston Villa. There more to the popularity of his appointment than being better than Alex Mcleish, and if there wasn't, why wasn't there also threads and mentions of a whole host of other managers in a similar manner?
This.
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He says: "[Owner] Randy Lerner said it would be tough from day one. I knew the parameters but it's a brilliant challenge for me to rectify." - Lambert
It might be tough, but it shouldn't be as tough as it has been from a funding perspective and also we should be doing much better than we are from a performance perspective.
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He looked like a good choice in the summer, but he has performed exceedingly badly. It happens in all walks of life, but in any competently run business he'd have been given the heave ho ages ago.
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I seem to remember (for a short time at least) that OGS was the popular choice on here, followed by Lambert..?
I wonder where we'd be now if he'd said "Yes"?
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He looked like a good choice in the summer, but he has performed exceedingly badly. It happens in all walks of life, but in any competently run business he'd have been given the heave ho ages ago.
A competently run business would not have allowed the overrated MON ridiculous over spend especially on wages for players with little sell on value. Said business would not have hired an insensitive zombie who treated the fans with contempt and who's ideas, if they were ever any good and they were certainly never great, were 10 years out of date. Said club would not have appointed a manager with a dire style of play coupled with a history of abject effectiveness.
Has the club not done the above and Lambert been appointed in different circumstances he definitely would have been sacked. Sacking him wouldn't make any difference now - the damage was done in seasons past. Lambert has not been able to put the brakes on the decline very much and certainly not reverse it.
Sacking Lambert would mean Faulkner picks another manager - Faulkner who unlike a broken clock isn't even right twice a day.
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I still think OGS just seemed to feel like the 'right' choice. Obviously I've no clue how it would have worked out, but it would have had a bit of an X-factor.
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I still trust Lambert to get it right for us next year. We do need stability, we haven't had it in so long.
If we stay up this season, I believe the thing that might relegate us next year would be another change of manager. We can't go through it all again. A new man coming in with new ideas, the players having to adapt to a new approach yet again and most importantly of all the players having to be assessed yet again. Part of the reason why we have struggled to shift dead-wood and high earners has been the constant change and needing to 'give everybody a clean slate'.
Let Lambert work on the squad in the summer. He has signed good players and quickly let him get rid of the players sucking the life out of the club. We have to stick with this.
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I still trust Lambert to get it right for us next year. We do need stability, we haven't had it in so long.
If we stay up this season, I believe the thing that might relegate us next year would be another change of manager. We can't go through it all again. A new man coming in with new ideas, the players having to adapt to a new approach yet again and most importantly of all the players having to be assessed yet again. Part of the reason why we have struggled to shift dead-wood and high earners has been the constant change and needing to 'give everybody a clean slate'.
Let Lambert work on the squad in the summer. He has signed good players and quickly let him get rid of the players sucking the life out of the club. We have to stick with this.
Spot on imo.
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I still trust Lambert to get it right for us next year. We do need stability, we haven't had it in so long.
If we stay up this season, I believe the thing that might relegate us next year would be another change of manager. We can't go through it all again. A new man coming in with new ideas, the players having to adapt to a new approach yet again and most importantly of all the players having to be assessed yet again. Part of the reason why we have struggled to shift dead-wood and high earners has been the constant change and needing to 'give everybody a clean slate'.
Let Lambert work on the squad in the summer. He has signed good players and quickly let him get rid of the players sucking the life out of the club. We have to stick with this.
If, for example, we are struggling at the bottom of the league (PL or champ) next January and we need a relatively inexpensive, short term, but possibly effective solution like, for a example, a bit of experience in midfield or defence will he address this? He didn't this season so why let him make the same mistakes again?
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Furthermore, a change can be positive. That has been proved before, we hoped that this would be the case this season but it has proved to be the opposite and that is down to a combination of factors, one of which is the manager.
It would be foolhardy for the club not to replace manager who is not doing the job, just because they had to do the same thing last summer.
You can keep sacking bad managers, if fact I'd go as far as to say that it is essential if you crave success.
As for Faulkners (and others) ability to select a decent manager, that is another story altogether but you can't retain underperforming managers because you're frightened of change.
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I'd keep with him.
I do think he's been reasonable in the transfer market; when I look at Lowton, Vlaar, Westwood and of course Benteke. That's 3/4 of the budget spent well right there.
We did need more experience, but with the wage budget as it is - I'd estimate Lambert didn't sign anyone on more than around 20/25k a week, what else could he have done?
Performances and results do need to improve, I'm hoping it's quickly before it's too late.
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Furthermore, a change can be positive. That has been proved before, we hoped that this would be the case this season but it has proved to be the opposite and that is down to a combination of factors, one of which is the manager.
It would be foolhardy for the club not to replace manager who is not doing the job, just because they had to do the same thing last summer.
You can keep sacking bad managers, if fact I'd go as far as to say that it is essential if you crave success.
As for Faulkners (and others) ability to select a decent manager, that is another story altogether but you can't retain underperforming managers because you're frightened of change.
Well put. This is my view too.
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I just wish he had addressed the obvious, we're fine going forward but very very weak in defence. Everyone can see that and it should have been dealt with.
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Lambert could bemoan lack of money. The simple fact is though, the major problem for us this season has been how poorly organised and managed we've been on the pitch. Quality of players is one thing but at the very least, if they're well drilled and look like they've got a gameplan, then we could accept being in this position more so, and probably put the blame more on Randy's shoulders.
We do actually have some talented players. The problem is, Lambert doesn't really know how to gel them, doesn't have a system he's comfortable with, and what money he has had to spend he hasn't spent entirely wisely. If I had the funds from Vlaar, KEA, Bennett and Bowery combined, I'd buy 2 decent players in place, with some experience in this league.
Benteke was a masterstroke granted. But for everything he does right, he does 4 things wrong. Same goes for on the pitch. Be it tactics, organisation, subs.
I did really want Lambert. Most did. We didn't particularly expect tactical brilliance. We expected some inconsistency, but we also expected a lot of 4-3 scorelines, and us winning a lot more.
This squad should be attaining mid-table.
The club made a mistake in letting both Cueller and Collins go without adequate replacement. Vlaar was one, but hadn't kicked a ball in this league. Dunne's fitness has always been in doubt for the last year. Grant Collins was horrific last year, and Cueller isn't brilliant, but Collins has been okay at West Ham again. Cueller's been a bit tosh, but he always did ok for us.
It's been too much too soon for Clark and Baker. It's debatable if they're good enough anyhow. Vlaars fitness record too was very risky. He's pretty average in any case. I don't see how we couldn't have found better, or as good, with more reliable fitness, in the Championship, or even scandanavian leagues if we wanted a cheaper option.
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Cuellar would have been useful this year, because for all his failings he puts his body on the line. We lack that at the back.
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Cuellar would have been useful this year, because for all his failings he puts his body on the line. We lack that at the back.
Yeah I'd go along with that. He actually reads the game fairly well and covers his fullbacks well too (on his day any how).
Clark's like a ghost at the back sometimes. It's very frustrating.
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I think Baker's good enough, i like him a lot. I'm not overkeen on Clark as a centre half though. Either way it's too soon for either of them to be involved in a relegation tussle and that's the main problem.
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Cuellar would have been useful this year, because for all his failings he puts his body on the line. We lack that at the back.
He's been iffy whenever I've seen him for Sunderland, the only thing he'd have provided is another body. It's organisation we've lacked at the back, my gut feeling is had Clark and Vlaar been able to play together more regularly things would have been better.
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Cuellar would have been useful this year, because for all his failings he puts his body on the line. We lack that at the back.
[/quotCuellar would have been useful this year, because for all his failings he puts his body on the line. We lack that at the back.
Yeah I'd go along with that. He actually reads the game fairly well and covers his fullbacks well too (on his day any how).
Clark's like a ghost at the back sometimes. It's very frustrating.
Cuellar was incapable of marking his man, holding a back-line and his distribution was terrible. I'd have much rather us have kept Collins with Vlaar. Collins man-marking was poor,but he made up for that in his recovery work. I suspect he was another high earner the board wanted removing.
Cuellar's communication with the fans on social networks went a long way in his popularit levels. He's shown his level at Sunderland now.
I really wanted OGS for the x-factor. And I do believe this squad should be pushing for mid-table. For me, Lamberts final straw should have been the Bradford semi. I can't see a way back for him.
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He might have shown his level at Sunderland, but that's still above where we are. In any case I'd certainly take Cuellar over the noone we signed in January. I'm not saying he's the best defender in the world, but it wouldn't take much to improve our awful defence.
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Lambert could bemoan lack of money. The simple fact is though, the major problem for us this season has been how poorly organised and managed we've been on the pitch. Quality of players is one thing but at the very least, if they're well drilled and look like they've got a gameplan, then we could accept being in this position more so, and probably put the blame more on Randy's shoulders.
We do actually have some talented players. The problem is, Lambert doesn't really know how to gel them, doesn't have a system he's comfortable with, and what money he has had to spend he hasn't spent entirely wisely. If I had the funds from Vlaar, KEA, Bennett and Bowery combined, I'd buy 2 decent players in place, with some experience in this league.
Benteke was a masterstroke granted. But for everything he does right, he does 4 things wrong. Same goes for on the pitch. Be it tactics, organisation, subs.
Yep. Thats the thing for me. We KNOW we have a poor squad thats not really fit for purpose and a lot of sub-standard or young players but even squads with those sort of limitations can organise themselves to the extent where while they may lose more than they win, they shouldn't be getting mauled every week or letting in goals in the last minute. He hasn't helped himself with the chelsea game. A sensible manager would have shut-up shop at half-time once it went pear-shaped and protected the player's confidence but he just carried on - if anything he went less defensive with his subs like a footballing version of the Black Knight who doesn't know when he's had his legs chopped off - a lot of what happened the whole of January was a direct result of that fuckwittery.
If he keeps us up, then i'd probably be inclined to give him the chance to sort it out, but otherwise i think its goodbye.
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Cuellar would have been useful this year, because for all his failings he puts his body on the line. We lack that at the back.
Ditto for Collins.Two years ago against Man City at VP he blocked everything more or less by himself.
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I think we should remember how both carlos and collins were playing last season and the sort of negative comments that were made about them on here.
At the end of the day they aren't here, so lets just get behind a bunchnof lads who are generally giving all they have.
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I think we should remember how both carlos and collins were playing last season and the sort of negative comments that were made about them on here.
At the end of the day they aren't here, so lets just get behind a bunchnof lads who are generally giving all they have.
I don't think many are not getting behind them. The argument is we'd be better off with Cuellar and Collins which is an indictment of the quality of our defence at the moment.
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I think we should remember how both carlos and collins were playing last season and the sort of negative comments that were made about them on here.
At the end of the day they aren't here, so lets just get behind a bunchnof lads who are generally giving all they have.
I don't think many are not getting behind them. The argument is we'd be better off with Cuellar and Collins which is an indictment of the quality of our defence at the moment.
Paul is correct.
Although neither are any great shakes, I could guarantee that with a Collins, Cuellar centre half pairing, we wouldn't be stuck in the bottom 3.
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I agree that hey are better but they aren't here so lets concentrate on the ones we have
UTV
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Lambert could bemoan lack of money. The simple fact is though, the major problem for us this season has been how poorly organised and managed we've been on the pitch. Quality of players is one thing but at the very least, if they're well drilled and look like they've got a gameplan, then we could accept being in this position more so, and probably put the blame more on Randy's shoulders.
Bingo.
Even if he'd been given zilch to spend last summer, with the squad he inherited bottom three and losing to a Fourth Division side over two games would have been unacceptable.
He's failed to get the best out of the players already in the squad and the players he's signed himself.
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Precisely Kevin. As eastie put it last week, we have had defensive problems all season and they remain unnaddressed. Everton tore us to pieces in the first half of the first game of the season. We are no closer in March to correcting those failings. Somebody has to carry the can for that.
I am the world's most badly coordinated and clumsy man but the Army drilled into me how to shoulder arms, slope arms, quick march, left wheel, right wheel, right dress, change step and it was all done by doing it over and over again until we all got it right. Once our defensive coaches saw that first headless chicken defence against Everton they should have drilled the players mercilessly until they each knew what they had to do and when to do it.
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Lambert could bemoan lack of money. The simple fact is though, the major problem for us this season has been how poorly organised and managed we've been on the pitch. Quality of players is one thing but at the very least, if they're well drilled and look like they've got a gameplan, then we could accept being in this position more so, and probably put the blame more on Randy's shoulders.
Bingo.
Even if he'd been given zilch to spend last summer, with the squad he inherited bottom three and losing to a Fourth Division side over two games would have been unacceptable.
He's failed to get the best out of the players already in the squad and the players he's signed himself.
He's failed to get the defence to perform - like the bloke before him, and the bloke before him, too.
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I wanted lambert as manager but i certainly never expected things to be as bad this season as this .
same here . I mean I wasn't cracking open the champagne when we got him but where we were at the time after the dire season we had .
I honestly thought he would be good and was mildly happy but I did not expect him to be tatically awful and alienate one of the best goal scorers we have had in recent times . Its ok not playing a goalscorer If its working PL . but when you are going down . it looks plain stupid..
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I'd keep with him.
I do think he's been reasonable in the transfer market; when I look at Lowton, Vlaar, Westwood and of course Benteke. That's 3/4 of the budget spent well right there.
Vlaar , average at best
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I'd keep with him.
I do think he's been reasonable in the transfer market; when I look at Lowton, Vlaar, Westwood and of course Benteke. That's 3/4 of the budget spent well right there.
Vlaar , average at best
Yes he is sadly. Being a Dutch international CH says little these days in truth.
I think his injury record is an even bigger problem. But yeah, we've had miles better centre-halfs over the years, even some who weren't here for long for one reason or another. Vlaar aint a patch on Laursen, Mellberg obviously. But he's yet to even come close to an over the hill Johnsen, Alpay, even Cueller or Collins at their best for us.
This is an area that Lambert should have been moving hell and high water to address in January. He didn't and that may prove to be his biggest failing of all.
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We're very quick to write people off. Vlaar wouldn't be the first to take a few months to settle into English football. His performances have been a bit up and down but he's also struggled with injuries so it's been a bit stop-start for him.
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I wanted lambert as manager but i certainly never expected things to be as bad this season as this .
same here . I mean I wasn't cracking open the champagne when we got him but where we were at the time after the dire season we had .
I honestly thought he would be good and was mildly happy but I did not expect him to be tatically awful and alienate one of the best goal scorers we have had in recent times . Its ok not playing a goalscorer If its working PL . but when you are going down . it looks plain stupid..
To be fair, Benteke and Weimann have been two of the best players this season.
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We're very quick to write people off. Vlaar wouldn't be the first to take a few months to settle into English football. His performances have been a bit up and down but he's also struggled with injuries so it's been a bit stop-start for him.
His injury record up till moving to us was also questionable to. I think in all honesty, with Dunne's questionnable fitness, we needed to sign another CH in the summer. Someone who knew the English game already and could help Vlaar bed in too.
I figured at the very least, even if he struggled to settle, we'd at least get some idea of why he was called Concrete Ron. Thus far I'm still stumped.
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We're very quick to write people off. Vlaar wouldn't be the first to take a few months to settle into English football. His performances have been a bit up and down but he's also struggled with injuries so it's been a bit stop-start for him.
His injury record up till moving to us was also questionable to. I think in all honesty, with Dunne's questionnable fitness, we needed to sign another CH in the summer. Someone who knew the English game already and could help Vlaar bed in too.
I figured at the very least, even if he struggled to settle, we'd at least get some idea of why he was called Concrete Ron. Thus far I'm still stumped.
That would mean 5 centre backs on the books, great in theory but you can see why Lambert would shy away when he's got a limited wage budget to work with.
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I'm still convinced Vlaar is comfortably good enough for where Villa are and probably higher, it's the lack of cover and quality around him that worries me.
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We're very quick to write people off. Vlaar wouldn't be the first to take a few months to settle into English football. His performances have been a bit up and down but he's also struggled with injuries so it's been a bit stop-start for him.
His injury record up till moving to us was also questionable to. I think in all honesty, with Dunne's questionnable fitness, we needed to sign another CH in the summer. Someone who knew the English game already and could help Vlaar bed in too.
I figured at the very least, even if he struggled to settle, we'd at least get some idea of why he was called Concrete Ron. Thus far I'm still stumped.
That would mean 5 centre backs on the books, great in theory but you can see why Lambert would shy away when he's got a limited wage budget to work with.
Surely a new centre half in the summer would replace dunne whose contract is up?
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I think I've done more defending that Dunne has this season.
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I think I've done more defending that Dunne has this season.
You have. You haven't eaten as many pies though. I'm sure of that.
It's also national pie week next week. God knows what state Dunney will be in by next saturday. Those xxl's a gonna be getting quite snug.
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We're very quick to write people off. Vlaar wouldn't be the first to take a few months to settle into English football. His performances have been a bit up and down but he's also struggled with injuries so it's been a bit stop-start for him.
His injury record up till moving to us was also questionable to. I think in all honesty, with Dunne's questionnable fitness, we needed to sign another CH in the summer. Someone who knew the English game already and could help Vlaar bed in too.
I figured at the very least, even if he struggled to settle, we'd at least get some idea of why he was called Concrete Ron. Thus far I'm still stumped.
That would mean 5 centre backs on the books, great in theory but you can see why Lambert would shy away when he's got a limited wage budget to work with.
The budget's an issue, but I think counting Clark and Baker as senior centre halfs is dangerous. More so in Baker's case because he'd really only played a handful of games. I think realistically only one of them will make the grade. Despite how poor Clark has been at times, I'd still back him because he's got more in his locker.
Personally though, if I'd have been Lambert, and I was far from alone in thinking this, I'd have put Dunne in the Collins, Hutton and Warnock category and tried to get rid asap. Maybe the injuries put paid to that in fairness. But rather than sign Bowery, maybe we could have gone for a decent defender from L1-2. Could have been another Westwood perhaps. We really didn't need another forward.
That said, it can't be denied that failing to get a CH in jan has been a massive error. Signing an unheard of winger for a side that doesn't really use wingers was a real head scratcher.
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I think I've done more defending that Dunne has this season.
Rumpole of the Bailey certainly has, and he's in better shape. Sign him up!
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I am amazed at how tolerant posters have been on here to Lambert. As I have witnessed it, first hand, in the flesh, the only quality I have been able to observe in Paul Lambert to defend his position is that he is not Alex McLeish. The one flash of brilliance he displayed was snapping up Benteke but that is now diminished by his openly talking about that player moving on. To all intents and purposes Benteke has been a loan signing with a fee involved and we would probably make a profit but that it the hole in the bottom of our boat - we do not keep our best players.
I think the root cause of our catastrophic decline has been due to cronyism. The owner appointed a crony as CEO and the manager has a team of cronies who have failed singularly to assemble or discipline a squad capable of basic defending.
The game against Man City next Monday will be the first home league game for as many years as I can remember with no member of my wider family in the crowd. Not me, or my sons or my daughter or my brothers or my nephews or my great nephews. That would be about twenty Villa fans in total, proper staunch fans, none of whom travel less than a hundred miles to a game and if I asked them "who would you sooner have to get us out of the shit we are in and keep us in the Premiership, Lambert or McLeish? every one would reply "McLeish". That is the state we are in in the eyes of a large proportion of the fans, myself included.
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I'm confused, if they are all proper staunch fans why is no one going? Would they be going if we were 10th? Or 6th? And so on. I'm curious where the cut off point is.
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I'm confused, if they are all proper staunch fans why is no one going? Would they be going if we were 10th? Or 6th? And so on. I'm curious where the cut off point is.
It's not just us. You'd be surprised how many Stripeyfilth fans are in the pub by me watching a home game on a Saturday afternoon and they're the pride of the midlands don't you know.
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I am amazed at how tolerant posters have been on here to Lambert. As I have witnessed it, first hand, in the flesh, the only quality I have been able to observe in Paul Lambert to defend his position is that he is not Alex McLeish. The one flash of brilliance he displayed was snapping up Benteke but that is now diminished by his openly talking about that player moving on. To all intents and purposes Benteke has been a loan signing with a fee involved and we would probably make a profit but that it the hole in the bottom of our boat - we do not keep our best players.
I think the root cause of our catastrophic decline has been due to cronyism. The owner appointed a crony as CEO and the manager has a team of cronies who have failed singularly to assemble or discipline a squad capable of basic defending.
The game against Man City next Monday will be the first home league game for as many years as I can remember with no member of my wider family in the crowd. Not me, or my sons or my daughter or my brothers or my nephews or my great nephews. That would be about twenty Villa fans in total, proper staunch fans, none of whom travel less than a hundred miles to a game and if I asked them "who would you sooner have to get us out of the shit we are in and keep us in the Premiership, Lambert or McLeish? every one would reply "McLeish". That is the state we are in in the eyes of a large proportion of the fans, myself included.
Spot on as always brian!
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I'm confused, if they are all proper staunch fans why is no one going? Would they be going if we were 10th? Or 6th? And so on. I'm curious where the cut off point is.
I can understand why some are staying away. You have to have a certain sick sense of humour to enjoy watching us at the moment.
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Many fans will feel they are not getting value for money these days and i can understand fans picking and choosing their games.
Certainly anyone who witnessed some of our dreadful displays at home in recent months has every right to stay away if they wish -im sure if results were better people would be more likely to return.
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I'm confused, if they are all proper staunch fans why is no one going? Would they be going if we were 10th? Or 6th? And so on. I'm curious where the cut off point is.
I can understand why some are staying away. You have to have a certain sick sense of humour to enjoy watching us at the moment.
I think spending most of the last three seasons in the bottom 6 has something to do with it, with things getting progressively worse.
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ooppss
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I wanted lambert as manager but i certainly never expected things to be as bad this season as this .
same here . I mean I wasn't cracking open the champagne when we got him but where we were at the time after the dire season we had .
I honestly thought he would be good and was mildly happy but I did not expect him to be tatically awful and alienate one of the best goal scorers we have had in recent times . Its ok not playing a goalscorer If its working PL . but when you are going down . it looks plain stupid..
To be fair, Benteke and Weimann have been two of the best players this season.
completely agree , even thou I would have rested Weimann at times for his own good , but I really like him. But you should be able to play Benteke , Weimann and Bent rotationally , even with charlie , and charlie has been injured a lot . I think gabby has been lucky to get the games he has had to be fair .
I think not playing Bent , when we could not score in that spell earlier and not buying an experienced CB might cost us in
the end. Lets hope not .
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I am amazed at how tolerant posters have been on here to Lambert. As I have witnessed it, first hand, in the flesh, the only quality I have been able to observe in Paul Lambert to defend his position is that he is not Alex McLeish. The one flash of brilliance he displayed was snapping up Benteke but that is now diminished by his openly talking about that player moving on. To all intents and purposes Benteke has been a loan signing with a fee involved and we would probably make a profit but that it the hole in the bottom of our boat - we do not keep our best players.
I think the root cause of our catastrophic decline has been due to cronyism. The owner appointed a crony as CEO and the manager has a team of cronies who have failed singularly to assemble or discipline a squad capable of basic defending.
The game against Man City next Monday will be the first home league game for as many years as I can remember with no member of my wider family in the crowd. Not me, or my sons or my daughter or my brothers or my nephews or my great nephews. That would be about twenty Villa fans in total, proper staunch fans, none of whom travel less than a hundred miles to a game and if I asked them "who would you sooner have to get us out of the shit we are in and keep us in the Premiership, Lambert or McLeish? every one would reply "McLeish". That is the state we are in in the eyes of a large proportion of the fans, myself included.
Spot on as always brian!
Whatever the opposite of spot on is, Brian.
Those of us who disagree with you (a small majority on this site) have seen signs that this side can play. We are able to discern that several of the new signings have shown real potential and we've also realised that the myopic policy of ditching managers each summer has only caused us to get worse season on season. At some point we have to get off the merry go round and give a manager the opportunity to establish and implement a plan and not act like spoilt kids at the first sign of trouble.
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True, Chris. The problem is they are not consistent or reliable over the course of 90 minutes.
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Many fans will feel they are not getting value for money these days and i can understand fans picking and choosing their games.
Certainly anyone who witnessed some of our dreadful displays at home in recent months has every right to stay away if they wish -im sure if results were better people would be more likely to return.
So they're the sort of fans that other supporters sing "where were you when you were shit" at?
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I am amazed at how tolerant posters have been on here to Lambert. As I have witnessed it, first hand, in the flesh, the only quality I have been able to observe in Paul Lambert to defend his position is that he is not Alex McLeish. The one flash of brilliance he displayed was snapping up Benteke but that is now diminished by his openly talking about that player moving on. To all intents and purposes Benteke has been a loan signing with a fee involved and we would probably make a profit but that it the hole in the bottom of our boat - we do not keep our best players.
I think the root cause of our catastrophic decline has been due to cronyism. The owner appointed a crony as CEO and the manager has a team of cronies who have failed singularly to assemble or discipline a squad capable of basic defending.
The game against Man City next Monday will be the first home league game for as many years as I can remember with no member of my wider family in the crowd. Not me, or my sons or my daughter or my brothers or my nephews or my great nephews. That would be about twenty Villa fans in total, proper staunch fans, none of whom travel less than a hundred miles to a game and if I asked them "who would you sooner have to get us out of the shit we are in and keep us in the Premiership, Lambert or McLeish? every one would reply "McLeish". That is the state we are in in the eyes of a large proportion of the fans, myself included.
Brian, the point I take from your post is not about Lambert but about the broader club management (your para 2), with which I agree: RL has not put in place properly qualified executives to run the club effectively.
Re Lambert, I don't think he's covered himself in glory but I believe that there is a good manager in there somewhere and that he is assembling a squad that will compete in the top flight next season. They just need to ensure their survival and then prove it.
Re Benteke, I think your analogy of it being a 'loan' is way wide of the mark; mainly because if he goes it'll be for 3-4 times the price we paid. This is a return that is irresistible to most in many businesses. It also reflects the dominant theme of football in 2013: money talks and those with the most will buy their way to the top almost regardless of any other club. We have to find a way of competing in this imbalanced operating environment.
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At some point we have to get off the merry go round and give a manager the opportunity to establish and implement a plan and not act like spoilt kids at the first sign of trouble.
In other words, Keep Billy McLambert, even if he sends us down.
In fact, keep him even if we do a Wolves.
Rewarding failure is unacceptable.
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Many fans will feel they are not getting value for money these days and i can understand fans picking and choosing their games.
Certainly anyone who witnessed some of our dreadful displays at home in recent months has every right to stay away if they wish -im sure if results were better people would be more likely to return.
So they're the sort of fans that other supporters sing "where were you when you were shit" at?
No , they pay their hard earned money and if they are not happy with what they are getting for their money they may decide there are better things to spend it on.
It is not about being fickle - but if people do not think they are getting value for money that is their right, i respect those who go regardless of perfomance but i equally respect the right of those who stay away because they are unhappy with whats going on at their club.
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At some point we have to get off the merry go round and give a manager the opportunity to establish and implement a plan and not act like spoilt kids at the first sign of trouble.
Rewarding failure is unacceptable.
A slightly hackneyed argument. I'm talking about taking a longer term view rather than just follow the urge to punish someone.
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I can't really look at Lamberts desire to try and play football as a major positive. Most of the other sides in the top flight barring maybe 2-3 want to keep the ball on the deck and pass it. Most of those too do it more effectively. Only QPR have scored fewer than us. Also judging by our defensive record, a big problem is also keeping the ball at times too.
It's all well and good him wanting us to go out there and play football in the right way. It's his job to organise the team in such a way that we're do effectively, which has hadn't. The very least an Aston Villa side should rightfully expect is to win as many or more than they lose, and have a reasonable goal difference, hopefully in the positive. We're a hell of a long way from that though.
Incompetence far outweighs the intent at the moment, and that's undeniable. That's also largely on Lamberts shoulders.
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Those of us who disagree with you (a small majority on this site) have seen signs that this side can play. We are able to discern that several of the new signings have shown real potential and we've also realised that the myopic policy of ditching managers each summer has only caused us to get worse season on season. At some point we have to get off the merry go round and give a manager the opportunity to establish and implement a plan and not act like spoilt kids at the first sign of trouble.
I've seen signs from all teams this season that they can play. They're Premier League footballers, they should all be able to string a couple of passes together occasionally. We just can't defend or creat chances though, and that's why we're in the bottom three and have been roundly battered for most of the season. Keeping shite managers might provide the stability you're looking for, it's just a shame that stability will be in a lower division.
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At some point we have to get off the merry go round and give a manager the opportunity to establish and implement a plan and not act like spoilt kids at the first sign of trouble.
Rewarding failure is unacceptable.
A slightly hackneyed argument. I'm talking about taking a longer term view rather than just follow the urge to punish someone.
Punishment doesn't come into it.
You are either a success or a failure.
Relegating us is failure in anybody's book, which obviously means he is not up to the job.
I've no great objection to him having another tilt at it if we survive and he can learn from his mistakes.
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I am amazed at how tolerant posters have been on here to Lambert. As I have witnessed it, first hand, in the flesh, the only quality I have been able to observe in Paul Lambert to defend his position is that he is not Alex McLeish. The one flash of brilliance he displayed was snapping up Benteke but that is now diminished by his openly talking about that player moving on. To all intents and purposes Benteke has been a loan signing with a fee involved and we would probably make a profit but that it the hole in the bottom of our boat - we do not keep our best players.
I think the root cause of our catastrophic decline has been due to cronyism. The owner appointed a crony as CEO and the manager has a team of cronies who have failed singularly to assemble or discipline a squad capable of basic defending.
The game against Man City next Monday will be the first home league game for as many years as I can remember with no member of my wider family in the crowd. Not me, or my sons or my daughter or my brothers or my nephews or my great nephews. That would be about twenty Villa fans in total, proper staunch fans, none of whom travel less than a hundred miles to a game and if I asked them "who would you sooner have to get us out of the shit we are in and keep us in the Premiership, Lambert or McLeish? every one would reply "McLeish". That is the state we are in in the eyes of a large proportion of the fans, myself included.
Lambert is not Alex Mcliesh as you say, but there is more to it than just stating that fact,
the difference between the two for me is that you knew under Mcliesh no matter what the result that the football would be shite, you cant say that with Lambert,
yes we have had the record losses which were an embaressment no one is going to deny that, but also we have played some great stuff this season and scored some fantastic goals, we never got that with Mcliesh, never
i know you comand a lot of respect on this site, mine to, but i dont think your post is spot on
in fact i can remember virtually exactly the same post this time last season about Mcliesh, and how he was destroying your dreams and grinding Villa into the dust
what Lambert is trying to do is so different to what Mcliesh did, a million times different, i'm not saying he will ultimatly be successfull, i just dont know, but the template is far better than anything Mcliesh had in store,
i sat there watching Villa last week at Arsenal, the side was not shit, the football was not shit, in fact we played very well, as we have done at times this season and against some of the better teams, its just not producing points yet, but it might given a bit of time,
its like all those inventions on 'the genius of invention' TV programe, they didnt all hit on it straight away, sometimes it took a few re jigs, sometimes they started as abject failures, but they persevered, and in the end it came good
i see the signs with Lambert that it might come good, far more than with Mcliesh or even MON, if he takes us down then we will need a rethink, but untill then i think its worth perservering.
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Lambert's football is as every bit as shit as McLeish's was last season, so why are people pretending otherwise? His results are even worse, and he's "built" the worst defence I've ever seen at Villa Park and he's inflicted on us some of if not our most humiliating results in our entire history. The "at least he's not McCleish" brigade are like Nero fiddling while Rome burns.
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Lambert's football is as every bit as shit as McLeish's was last season, so why are people pretending otherwise?
Because, whilst he is largely failing, he is at least *trying* to get us playing football, which is something McLeish never seemed to do.
Some of us think there is a possibility it will turn for him and we'll play better more often, hence our desire to keep him on.
And that "at least he's not McLeish brigade" stuff is absolute bollocks. The people repeatedly bring up McLeish as comparison is you and your fellow small band of miserablists.
I totally understand that many people don't agree on this point, but it's a bit daft to pretend you don't even get this argument, even if you don't agree with it, and to opt for that "at least he's not McLeish" bullshit so frequently.
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Lambert's football is as every bit as shit as McLeish's was last season, so why are people pretending otherwise? His results are even worse, and he's "built" the worst defence I've ever seen at Villa Park and he's inflicted on us some of if not our most humiliating results in our entire history. The "at least he's not McCleish" brigade are like Nero fiddling while Rome burns.
if you actually think that the football is just as shit, then there is no point disscussing it,
because you clearly dont know anything about the game, zilch
yuo might as well go and watch some other sport because you havent got a clue about this one
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Of course the football isn't as bad on the whole compared to Mcleish. Our plus side is going forward and we were terrible going forward under Mcleish.
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Lambert's football is as every bit as shit as McLeish's was last season, so why are people pretending otherwise?
Because, whilst he is largely failing, he is at least *trying* to get us playing football, which is something McLeish never seemed to do.
And that "at least he's not McLeish brigade" stuff is absolute bollocks. The people repeatedly bring up McLeish as comparison is you and your fellow small band of miserablists.
What does "trying" mean? This team hoofs it every bit as much as the last team did.
And less of the miserablist rubbish as well please. You criticise the Villa as much as anyone on here does. The only difference is that you seem to have a problem with anyone else who dares to. Perhaps it's because some of us saw it coming while you we're still in the midst of leaping with joy with the signings of our "young and hungry" brigade last summer.
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Of course the football isn't as bad on the whole compared to Mcleish. Our plus side is going forward and we were terrible going forward under Mcleish.
Last season was appalling, this season is even worse. The only difference I see is that we play tippy tippy football in our own half this season.
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bored out of my skin with this post, there are a few who should just copy and paste their negative comments 30 times a day, it would save them a lot of time!
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We attack much better this year than last(we actually try). Some of the goals we've scored this year have been brilliant and we never did that under Mcleish.
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Lambert's football is as every bit as shit as McLeish's was last season, so why are people pretending otherwise?
Because, whilst he is largely failing, he is at least *trying* to get us playing football, which is something McLeish never seemed to do.
And that "at least he's not McLeish brigade" stuff is absolute bollocks. The people repeatedly bring up McLeish as comparison is you and your fellow small band of miserablists.
What does "trying" mean? This team hoofs it every bit as much as the last team did.
And less of the miserablist rubbish as well please. You criticise the Villa as much as anyone on here does. The only difference is that you seem to have a problem with anyone else who dares to. Perhaps it's because some of us saw it coming while you we're still in the midst of leaping with joy with the signings of our "young and hungry" brigade last summer.
I have a problem with anyone else criticising Villa? What nonsense.
My problem with your arguments is that they're predictable, facile, and not based on fact, and quite easily taken apart.
As for your "young and hungry" comment about me, for example, if you bothered to look back, you'd see that I've been moaning as much as the next man that we don't have anything like enough experience in the squad, and have been since last summer.
If you're going to get into debates, try to at least think about what you're writing rather than just jumping down the throat of anyone who doesn't see EVERYTHING as dark and done for as you do.
My problem is with people who criticise the Villa but aren't really prepared to enter into a debate about it - like you.
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We attack much better this year than last(we actually try). Some of the goals we've scored this year have been brilliant and we never did that under Mcleish.
And that's what I was hinting at it my reply to saunders_heroes.
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If people want to argue about the defence fair enough, but not the attacking side of our game.
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Lambert's football is as every bit as shit as McLeish's was last season, so why are people pretending otherwise?
Because, whilst he is largely failing, he is at least *trying* to get us playing football, which is something McLeish never seemed to do.
And that "at least he's not McLeish brigade" stuff is absolute bollocks. The people repeatedly bring up McLeish as comparison is you and your fellow small band of miserablists.
What does "trying" mean? This team hoofs it every bit as much as the last team did.
And less of the miserablist rubbish as well please. You criticise the Villa as much as anyone on here does. The only difference is that you seem to have a problem with anyone else who dares to. Perhaps it's because some of us saw it coming while you we're still in the midst of leaping with joy with the signings of our "young and hungry" brigade last summer.
I have a problem with anyone else criticising Villa? What nonsense.
My problem with your arguments is that they're predictable, facile, and not based on fact, and quite easily taken apart.
As for your "young and hungry" comment about me, for example, if you bothered to look back, you'd see that I've been moaning as much as the next man that we don't have anything like enough experience in the squad, and have been since last summer.
If you're going to get into debates, try to at least think about what you're writing rather than just jumping down the throat of anyone who doesn't see EVERYTHING as dark and done for as you do.
"Jumping down people's throat"? Christ that's rich coming from you!
As for the rest. Well it's just the same, "we're not as bad as people say we are" delusion. Meanwhile we sitting in the bottom 3 in March.
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We attack much better this year than last(we actually try). Some of the goals we've scored this year have been brilliant and we never did that under Mcleish.
And that's what I was hinting at it my reply to saunders_heroes.
The goals scored column doesn't really back up the comment though.
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If people want to argue about the defence fair enough, but not the attacking side of our game.
Well why not, have you not seen our goal scoring stats this season?
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We attack much better this year than last(we actually try). Some of the goals we've scored this year have been brilliant and we never did that under Mcleish.
And that's what I was hinting at it my reply to saunders_heroes.
The goals scored column doesn't really back up the comment though.
We haven't scored enough, but the fact we've scored some cracking goals is at least some suggestion that we're trying to play decent stuff.
I am not saying we're playing this stuff anything like enough - far from it - I was just pointing out that, those of us who would stick with Lambert, do so on the basis of things like that.
Things like that being one of the points on which Lambert and McLeish are very different.
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We attack much better this year than last(we actually try). Some of the goals we've scored this year have been brilliant and we never did that under Mcleish.
And that's what I was hinting at it my reply to saunders_heroes.
The goals scored column doesn't really back up the comment though.
We haven't scored enough, but the fact we've scored some cracking goals is at least some suggestion that we're trying to play decent stuff.
I am not saying we're playing this stuff anything like enough - far from it - I was just pointing out that, those of us who would stick with Lambert, do so on the basis of things like that.
Things like that being one of the points on which Lambert and McLeish are very different.
Agreed.
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"Jumping down people's throat"? Christ that's rich coming from you!
As for the rest. Well it's just the same, "we're not as bad as people say we are" delusion. Meanwhile we sitting in the bottom 3 in March.
The only person whose throat I ever get the urge to jump down is yours, and it is because of your inability or unwillingness (can't work out which it is) to engage in debate.
99 percent of the people on here can engage in back and forth constructive debate, and do so. Your posts, on the other hand, are a constant flow of whining in which you can't handle the fact that, hey, maybe the people who disagree with you do so for a reason.
I even tried to explain one of these reasons in answer to you, but you just choose to ignore it.
And before you start whingeing about my use of the word "miserablist", have a look at your post before with your "at least he's not McLeish brigade" point. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
There you go, again, in fact, you're now referring to us as "deluded".
That's a perfect example of what I mean. It's not just me, it gets on the tits of a lot of people.
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We attack much better this year than last(we actually try). Some of the goals we've scored this year have been brilliant and we never did that under Mcleish.
And that's what I was hinting at it my reply to saunders_heroes.
The goals scored column doesn't really back up the comment though.
We haven't scored enough, but the fact we've scored some cracking goals is at least some suggestion that we're trying to play decent stuff.
I am not saying we're playing this stuff anything like enough - far from it - I was just pointing out that, those of us who would stick with Lambert, do so on the basis of things like that.
Things like that being one of the points on which Lambert and McLeish are very different.
This is what I find so annoying. It's people who try to condone this season's shitfest by comparing it to last season's abomination under McLeish. People need to get it into their skulls that Lambert's Villa is not better than McLeish's, it's much much worse.
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This is what I find so annoying. It's people who try to condone this season's shitfest by comparing it to last season's abomination under McLeish. People need to get it into their skulls that Lambert's Villa is not better than McLeish's, it's much much worse.
And there's another perfect example of what I mean.
They're people who are disagreeing with you, annoying though it may be to you.
They don't need to get anything "into their skulls"
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We attack much better this year than last(we actually try). Some of the goals we've scored this year have been brilliant and we never did that under Mcleish.
And that's what I was hinting at it my reply to saunders_heroes.
The goals scored column doesn't really back up the comment though.
We haven't scored enough, but the fact we've scored some cracking goals is at least some suggestion that we're trying to play decent stuff.
I am not saying we're playing this stuff anything like enough - far from it - I was just pointing out that, those of us who would stick with Lambert, do so on the basis of things like that.
Things like that being one of the points on which Lambert and McLeish are very different.
This is what I find so annoying. It's people who try to condone this season's shitfest by comparing it to last season's abomination under McLeish. People need to get it into their skulls that Lambert's Villa is not better than McLeish's, it's much much worse.
No it isn't.
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"Jumping down people's throat"? Christ that's rich coming from you!
As for the rest. Well it's just the same, "we're not as bad as people say we are" delusion. Meanwhile we sitting in the bottom 3 in March.
The only person whose throat I ever get the urge to jump down is yours, and it is because of your inability or unwillingness (can't work out which it is) to engage in debate.
99 percent of the people on here can engage in back and forth constructive debate, and do so. Your posts, on the other hand, are a constant flow of whining in which you can't handle the fact that, hey, maybe the people who disagree with you do so for a reason.
I even tried to explain one of these reasons in answer to you, but you just choose to ignore it.
And before you start whingeing about my use of the word "miserablist", have a look at your post before with your "at least he's not McLeish brigade" point. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
There you go, again, in fact, you're now referring to us as "deluded".
That's a perfect example of what I mean. It's not just me, it gets on the tits of a lot of people.
The same could be said of you Paulie. You don't agree with me and vice versa, so you resort to jumping down my throat with practically all my posts. I said we'd be in trouble from day 1, and you disagreed. You think it's not as bad as I make out. Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion, but so am I. If that makes me a part of the "miserablist few" (as you so charmingly put it) so be it. Just because we disagree doesn't mean I'm not incapable of debate, and it's a bit pompous of you to suggest so.
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We attack much better this year than last(we actually try). Some of the goals we've scored this year have been brilliant and we never did that under Mcleish.
And that's what I was hinting at it my reply to saunders_heroes.
The goals scored column doesn't really back up the comment though.
We haven't scored enough, but the fact we've scored some cracking goals is at least some suggestion that we're trying to play decent stuff.
I am not saying we're playing this stuff anything like enough - far from it - I was just pointing out that, those of us who would stick with Lambert, do so on the basis of things like that.
Things like that being one of the points on which Lambert and McLeish are very different.
This is what I find so annoying. It's people who try to condone this season's shitfest by comparing it to last season's abomination under McLeish. People need to get it into their skulls that Lambert's Villa is not better than McLeish's, it's much much worse.
No it isn't.
Well if you're gonna be like that...
Yes it is.
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This is what I find so annoying. It's people who try to condone this season's shitfest by comparing it to last season's abomination under McLeish. People need to get it into their skulls that Lambert's Villa is not better than McLeish's, it's much much worse.
And there's another perfect example of what I mean.
They're people who are disagreeing with you, annoying though it may be to you.
They don't need to get anything "into their skulls"
And I'm disagreeing with you. Deal with it.
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TSM was boring, negative, defensive and sterile. At least under Lambert we look like a football team once more. Just wish he'd sort out the defence.
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TSM was boring, negative, defensive and sterile. At least under Lambert we look like a football team once more. Just wish he'd sort out the defence.
And the midfield, and the attack.
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If we survive, give him another chance.
If we get relegated, get rid.
I can't do better than that
(Adopts Javier Bardem pose from No country for old men)
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If we survive, give him another chance.
If we get relegated, get rid.
I can't do better than that
(Adopts Javier Bardem pose from No country for old men)
If we stay up I'd give him till Christmas, but he'd have to be backed in the transfer market properly. No more of this "young and hungry" shit. If we go down he should be sacked on the spot.
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If we survive, give him another chance.
If we get relegated, get rid.
I can't do better than that
(Adopts Javier Bardem pose from No country for old men)
If we stay up I'd give him till Christmas, but he'd have to be backed in the transfer market properly. No more of this "young and hungry" shit. If we go down he should be sacked on the spot.
I think we'll stay up, just, but my guess is if we go down they'll stick with him.
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TSM was boring, negative, defensive and sterile. At least under Lambert we look like a football team once more. Just wish he'd sort out the defence.
In thirty-some years of watching Villa, I had experienced almost every state of mind. With last season's "sleepy", I completed the set!
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If we survive, give him another chance.
If we get relegated, get rid.
I can't do better than that
(Adopts Javier Bardem pose from No country for old men)
If we stay up I'd give him till Christmas, but he'd have to be backed in the transfer market properly. No more of this "young and hungry" shit. If we go down he should be sacked on the spot.
I think we'll stay up, just, but my guess is if we go down they'll stick with him.
I hope you're right with the former. The thought of us going down makes me feel sick in the stomach though.
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If we survive, give him another chance.
If we get relegated, get rid.
I can't do better than that
(Adopts Javier Bardem pose from No country for old men)
If we stay up I'd give him till Christmas, but he'd have to be backed in the transfer market properly. No more of this "young and hungry" shit. If we go down he should be sacked on the spot.
I think we'll stay up, just, but my guess is if we go down they'll stick with him.
Good luck if you can second-guess what these fuckwits in charge would do.
I wouldn't be surprised if they got Mick Mills in as Player Manager.
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Is it a Brummie thing that things are either 'great' or 'shit' with no grey areas in between?
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Is it a Brummie thing that things are either 'great' or 'shit' with no grey areas in between?
No, it's an Internet thing.
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Is it a Brummie thing that things are either 'great' or 'shit' with no grey areas in between?
No, it's an Internet thing.
Is the right answer.
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If we stay up I'd give him till Christmas, but he'd have to be backed in the transfer market properly. No more of this "young and hungry" shit. If we go down he should be sacked on the spot.
The "young and hungry" shit would have been fine if the experienced players in the squad had (i) shown some commitment to the cause and / or (ii) stayed fit.
Lambert's been shafted by a combination of the experienced players being shit and his desire to change too much too quickly.
Maybe he is the cause of these problems; I don't know.
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When we appointed Lambert, I thought he would be like Houllier, only better: that is, less pig-headed, not so out of touch, not trying to change things to fast.
However, I'd argue that he has been like Houllier, but worse: more pig-headed, more out of touch (thinking we can have a successful PL campaign with players who bare have PL experience), and trying to change things even faster than GH did.
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When we appointed Lambert, I thought he would be like Houllier, only better: that is, less pig-headed, not so out of touch, not trying to change things to fast.
However, I'd argue that he has been like Houllier, but worse: more pig-headed, more out of touch (thinking we can have a successful PL campaign with players who bare have PL experience), and trying to change things even faster than GH did.
I don't agree, I think Houllier had much better tools at his disposal, and therefore larger margins for error.
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When we appointed Lambert, I thought he would be like Houllier, only better: that is, less pig-headed, not so out of touch, not trying to change things to fast.
However, I'd argue that he has been like Houllier, but worse: more pig-headed, more out of touch (thinking we can have a successful PL campaign with players who bare have PL experience), and trying to change things even faster than GH did.
I don't agree, I think Houllier had much better tools at his disposal, and therefore larger margins for error.
You have a point, but one example is Collins and Dunne. The pair was hardly GH favourites, but he realised that they were useful when trying to secure a mid-table finish. Lambert, on the other hands, ostracised Hutton and Warnock even though they could have done a job.
(I'm not saying that Hutton and Warnock would have been the solution to all our problems, but having the option to call on their experience could have been useful at one or two points during the season.)
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If we stay up then PL should be given the opportunity to continue with this "project"...he knows the players, so it makes sense to give him the chance to develop the lads and progress with his vision. This long term strategy could work if Randy provides funds to bring in a few more experienced players to provide a spine for the team.
If we go down then PL should be sacked immediately. There is no case to defend any manager who gets Aston Villa relegated regardless of the playing staff and financial constraints. He would be the only man responsible for taking us down with his decisions and should lose his job because of it, so keeping him on would be as good as saying "relegation is acceptable"...and for a club like Aston Villa, it is and never should be "acceptable".
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When we appointed Lambert, I thought he would be like Houllier, only better: that is, less pig-headed, not so out of touch, not trying to change things to fast.
However, I'd argue that he has been like Houllier, but worse: more pig-headed, more out of touch (thinking we can have a successful PL campaign with players who bare have PL experience), and trying to change things even faster than GH did.
I don't agree, I think Houllier had much better tools at his disposal, and therefore larger margins for error.
You have a point, but one example is Collins and Dunne. The pair was hardly GH favourites, but he realised that they were useful when trying to secure a mid-table finish. Lambert, on the other hands, ostracised Hutton and Warnock even though they could have done a job.
(I'm not saying that Hutton and Warnock would have been the solution to all our problems, but having the option to call on their experience could have been useful at one or two points during the season.)
I think Houllier would have junked the lot but the transfer window was shut.
Lambert has had to carry out the work that should have been done 12 months before.
And for that we can thank the board.
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Its hard to know what Lerner will do. I remember people on here being adamant McLeish would be staying. Now we are doing worse.
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Its hard to know what Lerner will do. I remember people on here being adamant McLeish would be staying. Now we are doing worse.
I suspect that Lerner might be 'hoping' that we stay up and then try and sell us!
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It's extremely difficult to guess. My impression is that Lerner doesn't like to make decisions during the season, but isn't averse to sacking an underperforming manager. If that's correct, Lambert may be going if we survive (and certainly if we are relegated), but not before the end of the season.
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He's been given a great opportunity after this weekends results. If we could win the next three, well just think.
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Two out of three would do nicely.
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Two out of three ain't bad.
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He's been given a great opportunity after this weekends results. If we could win the next three, well just think.
It's annoying that, following the decent set of results today, we've got Man Fucking City to play.
If we'd had a more winnable game, imagine the boost that would have given
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We have Reading and QPR after. I'm staying positive.
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The Aston Villa I know and love will beat Man City and lose to Reading and QPR.
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The Aston Villa I know and love will beat Man City and lose to Reading and QPR.
Isn't that the truth.
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We always seem to raise our game when playing the 'better' teams (Chelsea away this year excluded).
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We always seem to raise our game when playing the 'better' teams (Chelsea away this year excluded).
What about the everton and spurs home games and the 0-5 at Man City ;-)
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We always seem to raise our game when playing the 'better' teams (Chelsea away this year excluded).
I definitely remember three, four and five goal hammerings against the likes of ManYoo, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea over the last few seasons.
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Mere blips.
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He's been given a great opportunity after this weekends results. If we could win the next three, well just think.
It's annoying that, following the decent set of results today, we've got Man Fucking City to play.
If we'd had a more winnable game, imagine the boost that would have given
I agree with this, but I also think we'll struggle agin' Reading and QPR.
Which - I suppose - means we're a goner.
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Villa to go on an unbeaten run until the end of the season. Now that's more like it.
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I haven't given up on Europe.
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Dont at all be surprised of either or both of the QPR and Reading games end up as draws. Fortunes favours the brave so hope we're not too scared to go for the win rather than not trying to lose or too stupid and incapable of defending a 1 or 2 goal lead for the last 10 minutes again. We may need a couple of unexpected surprise results (wins or draws) to secure survival this season.
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I haven't given up on Europe.
Yeah you can get cheap tickets in the Eurostar if you look hard enough. I'm sure there's a few pubs in Europe that'll show Championship games next season. ;)
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Villa to go on an unbeaten run until the end of the season. Now that's more like it.
Starting when?
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I haven't given up on Europe.
I think Clarky and the Delphanator have wrecked any chance of a Europa spot from the fair play lottery.
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I haven't given up on Europe.
I think they had a reunion a few years back so you might have the chance to go see them.
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The closest we'll get to Europe next season will probably be Yeovil
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Villa to go on an unbeaten run until the end of the season. Now that's more like it.
Starting when?
Wigan away.
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What would have been better value for our pennies?
£2m on Sylla to sit on the bench. Or a centre back for the same amount of money?
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What would have been better value for our pennies?
£2m on Sylla to sit on the bench. Or a centre back for the same amount of money?
yep, baffling. Why the fuck he bought him is anyone's guess. One for the Championship?
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possibly but if so, Lambert won't be there to see how such a mysterious signing works out
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What would have been better value for our pennies?
£2m on Sylla to sit on the bench. Or a centre back for the same amount of money?
yep, baffling. Why the fuck he bought him is anyone's guess. One for the Championship?
It's a signing that's got "Salifou" written all over it.
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Why buy a centre half when we already have Johan Cruyff playing there?
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What would have been better value for our pennies?
£2m on Sylla to sit on the bench. Or a centre back for the same amount of money?
yep, baffling. Why the fuck he bought him is anyone's guess. One for the Championship?
It's a signing that's got "Salifou" written all over it.
Funny you should say that - I did wonder if maybe Salifou could have done a job in our midfield this season. I don't recall him being terrible, but maybe it's the fact that I hardly recall him playing at all which leaves me none the wiser.
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What would have been better value for our pennies?
£2m on Sylla to sit on the bench. Or a centre back for the same amount of money?
yep, baffling. Why the fuck he bought him is anyone's guess. One for the Championship?
It's a signing that's got "Salifou" written all over it.
Salifou was just a hopeful punt with a bit of spare change though, not the last throw of the dice to save us from relegation. Isn't the whole point of the January transfer window to bring in players that can have an impact NOW because you have a glaring deficiency that can't wait till May? Obviously not.
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What would have been better value for our pennies?
£2m on Sylla to sit on the bench. Or a centre back for the same amount of money?
yep, baffling. Why the fuck he bought him is anyone's guess. One for the Championship?
It's a signing that's got "Salifou" written all over it.
Salifou was just a hopeful punt with a bit of spare change though, not the last throw of the dice to save us from relegation. Isn't the whole point of the January transfer window to bring in players that can have an impact NOW because you have a glaring deficiency that can't wait till May? Obviously not.
Very true Greg. Can't help but think that the money would have been better spent on the wages of a couple of experienced loan signings.
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What would have been better value for our pennies?
£2m on Sylla to sit on the bench. Or a centre back for the same amount of money?
yep, baffling. Why the fuck he bought him is anyone's guess. One for the Championship?
It's a signing that's got "Salifou" written all over it.
Salifou was just a hopeful punt with a bit of spare change though, not the last throw of the dice to save us from relegation. Isn't the whole point of the January transfer window to bring in players that can have an impact NOW because you have a glaring deficiency that can't wait till May? Obviously not.
Very true Greg. Can't help but think that the money would have been better spent on the wages of a couple of experienced loan signings.
We could, theoretically, bring in free agents couldn't we? I know we won't, but are they eligible?
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Defensive errors will be our downfall- delph will be missed badly the next 2 games, gabby and nzogbia both poor last night - we need everyone pulling their weight - too many players are not performing - the next 2 games are huge - we will see who can stand up and be counted on.
Lambert took a huge gamble not signing a defender - it could be a gamble that costs us tens of millions.
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Lambert took a huge gamble not signing a defender - it could be a gamble that costs us tens of millions.
Yes, throwing a couple of hundred thousand at someone like Scharner would probably have been more help than Sylla has been thus far.
But as it looks as though there was very close to bugger all to spend, I'm not sure that in the market we were shopping in it will have made a massive difference.
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Lambert took a huge gamble not signing a defender - it could be a gamble that costs us tens of millions.
Yes, throwing a couple of hundred thousand at someone like Scharner would probably have been more help than Sylla has been thus far.
But as it looks as though there was very close to bugger all to spend, I'm not sure that in the market we were shopping in it will have made a massive difference.
It may not have worked, but it was worth a shot, that's why I am so angry with the manager. He has given the team a concrete lifebelt.
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Lambert took a huge gamble not signing a defender - it could be a gamble that costs us tens of millions.
Yes, throwing a couple of hundred thousand at someone like Scharner would probably have been more help than Sylla has been thus far.
But as it looks as though there was very close to bugger all to spend, I'm not sure that in the market we were shopping in it will have made a massive difference.
He was never going to be allowed to do that. After spending the best part of 3 years trying to trim the wage bill we were not going to be able to spend money on expensive, short term fixes who wouldn't come here without the security of a long term contract.
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Sylla did not cost anything like £2million.
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Sylla seems like a very odd signing, it's now March and he hasn't started a game. What was the point?
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Sylla did not cost anything like £2million.
According to every single news site out there he did.
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Lambert took a huge gamble not signing a defender - it could be a gamble that costs us tens of millions.
Yes, throwing a couple of hundred thousand at someone like Scharner would probably have been more help than Sylla has been thus far.
But as it looks as though there was very close to bugger all to spend, I'm not sure that in the market we were shopping in it will have made a massive difference.
He was never going to be allowed to do that. After spending the best part of 3 years trying to trim the wage bill we were not going to be able to spend money on expensive, short term fixes who wouldn't come here without the security of a long term contract.
We needed to do something defensively though. It's not ideal to have Clark and Baker in a relegation scrap. Yeah they'll become better players for it hopefully but you need an old head or two to guide them through it and we have'nt really got that anywhere on the pitch, never mind in defence.
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The world and his dog could see we needed some experience in defence and central midfield. Everybody except the people in charge at Villa.
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I think it's pretty poor that fans and pundits alike could see exactly what this team needed and it was only the management and ownership who were unaware. It's not like the fans were demanding we signed Cambiasso and Pique either, we just wanted some experience.
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Exactly. I refuse to believe that in the world of professional football, there wasn't a defender available who was better than Clark for a reasonable fee.
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It would be nice if someone could ask Lambchop why he bought Sylla, as it seems that it was definitely not for this season... perhaps he is planning ahead! (winky thingy)
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Exactly. I refuse to believe that in the world of professional football, there wasn't a defender available who was better than Clark for a reasonable fee.
This. I'm not being funny but there's probably defenders in league 1 and 2 who can tackle, head a ball and keep their concentration for 90 minutes too who will be more effective than Clark. Or could our scouts not have found a decent defender from abroad who could come into the side. Clark has been a nightmare.
The debate as to his long term effectiveness is irrelevant at the moment. But it's patently clear at this time that he shouldn't be playing. He's a liability.
I'm also sure had Lerner been asked for a bit of cash for a centre back good enough he'd have forked it over to save our season. We're not talking much. I'm pretty sure there must have been more available than 2 million for Sylla and whatever fee we paid for Dawkins on loan. (plus the wages of both). We did get rid of Hutton and Warnock too.
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It would be nice if someone could ask Lambchop why he bought Sylla, as it seems that it was definitely not for this season... perhaps he is planning ahead! (winky thingy)
I think sadly that looks more and more likely to be exactly what he was doing.
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Lambert took a huge gamble not signing a defender - it could be a gamble that costs us tens of millions.
Yes, throwing a couple of hundred thousand at someone like Scharner would probably have been more help than Sylla has been thus far.
But as it looks as though there was very close to bugger all to spend, I'm not sure that in the market we were shopping in it will have made a massive difference.
He was never going to be allowed to do that. After spending the best part of 3 years trying to trim the wage bill we were not going to be able to spend money on expensive, short term fixes who wouldn't come here without the security of a long term contract.
Sharner and upson both went on loan without long term contracts- a player coming here on loan would have had the chance to impress and maybe earn a contract- to say he wouldnt be allowed to sign a player on a short term loan is garbage - lambert even said himself he was looking at the loan market - my guess is he gambled on dunne returning as he was due back in training at the end of the window.
The money spent on dawkins and sylla could easily have been used on a defender.
Lambert didnt say he had no money for a defender - he said he was unable to find one ans wouldnt spend for the sake of it - the failure to sign a defender is lamberts fault , not lerners.
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If Lambert would have gone into Randy's office asking for say 5 mill for a seasoned defender. A walk in captain. Potentially someone to organise the defence on the pitch and salvage our season, I cannot see why Randy would say no. There was a bit to spend, it's clear. Nothing major. I just think Lambert's pig headed and it's going to take us down.
It's also probably more likely that he would have been looking at young central defenders. 20 odd, in the lower leagues. One's for the future. Not what we need in the here and now.
I mean signing an unheard of winger in a team that doesn't use wingers? Insanity.
Spending 2 million (or anything close to that) on a French 2nd division player who looks a long way from being a first 11 player for us was also crazy. Lique 2 isn't as strong as the Championship. There's not even a gaurantee this lad will make it next year in the champ.
It's cock up after cock up.
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Lambert took a huge gamble not signing a defender - it could be a gamble that costs us tens of millions.
Yes, throwing a couple of hundred thousand at someone like Scharner would probably have been more help than Sylla has been thus far.
But as it looks as though there was very close to bugger all to spend, I'm not sure that in the market we were shopping in it will have made a massive difference.
He was never going to be allowed to do that. After spending the best part of 3 years trying to trim the wage bill we were not going to be able to spend money on expensive, short term fixes who wouldn't come here without the security of a long term contract.
Sharner and upson both went on loan without long term contracts- a player coming here on loan would have had the chance to impress and maybe earn a contract- to say he wouldnt be allowed to sign a player on a short term loan is garbage - lambert even said himself he was looking at the loan market - my guess is he gambled on dunne returning as he was due back in training at the end of the window.
The money spent on dawkins and sylla could easily have been used on a defender.
Lambert didnt say he had no money for a defender - he said he was unable to find one ans wouldnt spend for the sake of it - the failure to sign a defender is lamberts fault , not lerners.
Upson, are you serious?
You're memory is letting you down, he said that he'd enquired about players but that they were out of of our range - presumably he meant in terms of the wages - so wasn't able to proceed.
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Upson is better than our centre halves.
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Lambert was quoted as saying that he enquired about a defender but financially he could'nt do it.
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What would have been better value for our pennies?
£2m on Sylla to sit on the bench. Or a centre back for the same amount of money?
yep, baffling. Why the fuck he bought him is anyone's guess. One for the Championship?
It's a signing that's got "Salifou" written all over it.
Salifou was just a hopeful punt with a bit of spare change though, not the last throw of the dice to save us from relegation. Isn't the whole point of the January transfer window to bring in players that can have an impact NOW because you have a glaring deficiency that can't wait till May? Obviously not.
It's only a month-long though Greg, where would you start?
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Lambert took a huge gamble not signing a defender - it could be a gamble that costs us tens of millions.
Yes, throwing a couple of hundred thousand at someone like Scharner would probably have been more help than Sylla has been thus far.
But as it looks as though there was very close to bugger all to spend, I'm not sure that in the market we were shopping in it will have made a massive difference.
He was never going to be allowed to do that. After spending the best part of 3 years trying to trim the wage bill we were not going to be able to spend money on expensive, short term fixes who wouldn't come here without the security of a long term contract.
Sharner and upson both went on loan without long term contracts- a player coming here on loan would have had the chance to impress and maybe earn a contract- to say he wouldnt be allowed to sign a player on a short term loan is garbage - lambert even said himself he was looking at the loan market - my guess is he gambled on dunne returning as he was due back in training at the end of the window.
The money spent on dawkins and sylla could easily have been used on a defender.
Lambert didnt say he had no money for a defender - he said he was unable to find one ans wouldnt spend for the sake of it - the failure to sign a defender is lamberts fault , not lerners.
Upson, are you serious?
You're memory is letting you down, he said that he'd enquired about players but that they were out of of our range - presumably he meant in terms of the wages - so wasn't able to proceed.
In the state we currently are Upson would have been a big help but either Lambchop wasn't interetsed or Brighton were prepared to pay more in wages than Villa?
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Lambert was quoted as saying that he enquired about a defender but financially he could'nt do it.
That is the depressing thing.
The money wasn't there to sign the type of player we obviously desperately needed to strengthen and give us a chance of staying up.
I entirely understand we've got a wage bill problem, but there's no reason to believe the defender in question wanted mega wages - and if he did, we'd have had a fairly good idea prior to the window anyway, so it was probably a waste of time chasing something that was never going to happen.
We had the chance to do something, and for whatever reason, didn't do it. Adding to the wage bill when we didn't want to might have clouded the finances somewhat, but nowhere near as much as getting relegated will do.
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What premier league team doesnt have a wage bill problem? All these wankers earn far too much, I simply can't belive that if we didn't sign Sylla and the one from spurs then we couldn't have used that money to sign a defender even if it was on loan for the rest of the season
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Lambert was quoted as saying that he enquired about a defender but financially he could'nt do it.
That is the depressing thing.
The money wasn't there to sign the type of player we obviously desperately needed to strengthen and give us a chance of staying up.
I entirely understand we've got a wage bill problem, but there's no reason to believe the defender in question wanted mega wages - and if he did, we'd have had a fairly good idea prior to the window anyway, so it was probably a waste of time chasing something that was never going to happen.
We had the chance to do something, and for whatever reason, didn't do it. Adding to the wage bill when we didn't want to might have clouded the finances somewhat, but nowhere near as much as getting relegated will do.
Indeed it's a complete false economy. Say we'd brought in a defender on loan for £50,000 a week until May, that's around £1,000,000 until the end of the season. Yes it's an expense, but not doing it looks like it has a very good chance of costing us £60 million in the long run. It's utter utter madness.
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Sorry if this has already been suggested, but talking experienced CB's - Matthew Upson went on loan to Brighton... surely that would have been worth a punt? We are crying out for some experience back there... between the board & Lambert we've committed footballing suicide not sorting that out in January.
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I'm not that big a fan of Upson but bringing in someone like him would have taken the pressure off Clark and Baker.
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The one luxury Lambert had was that our defence is so bad, that any number of options could have improved it. I'm certain there are Championship centre halves better than ours. There's no way they would have all cost high wages, it was utter negligence not to address our defence.
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I'm not that big a fan of Upson but bringing in someone like him would have taken the pressure off Clark and Baker.
Agreed- he went on loan to a lower league club and the money saved on warnocks wage along with dawkins and sylla would have easily covered him or scharner .
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The problem is we can sit here all day saying how useful Upson might have been but maybe Lambert did'nt rate him or Scharner enough to bring in.
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The problem is we can sit here all day saying how useful Upson might have been but maybe Lambert did'nt rate him or Scharner enough to bring in.
Well then sadly his judgement is either completely negligent or incompetant. Either way it could well cost us our top flight status.
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I'm not that big a fan of Upson but bringing in someone like him would have taken the pressure off Clark and Baker.
Agreed- he went on loan to a lower league club and the money saved on warnocks wage along with dawkins and sylla would have easily covered him or scharner .
But he's crap.
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I'm not that big a fan of Upson but bringing in someone like him would have taken the pressure off Clark and Baker.
Agreed- he went on loan to a lower league club and the money saved on warnocks wage along with dawkins and sylla would have easily covered him or scharner .
But he's crap.
Not compared to our terrible defence.
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I'm not that big a fan of Upson but bringing in someone like him would have taken the pressure off Clark and Baker.
Agreed- he went on loan to a lower league club and the money saved on warnocks wage along with dawkins and sylla would have easily covered him or scharner .
But he's crap.
Not compared to our terrible defence.
Upson would have provided experience , organisation and improved the defence - i would have prefeered sharner but i'm sure their were other defensive options we could have looked at - lambert was saying how dunnes experience had been missed and how close to fitness he was- only for dunne had a relapse just after the window closed .
To risk losing £70m plus in relegation for the sake of giving a short loan deal to an experienced defender is nonsensical.
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Ricardo Carvalho has been sitting on his hands at Real Madrid this year as 5th choice centre half and probably won't play another game his season. I know Eig is a big fan.
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The problem is we can sit here all day saying how useful Upson might have been but maybe Lambert did'nt rate him or Scharner enough to bring in.
Our manager thinks Clark has had a fantastic season. So I wouldn't trust who he rates.
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This "we couldn't get a better defender than our current two" arse is rapidly resembling the "there's no-one better than Lambert" bobbins. With such unreplaceables in our team and management set-up, it really is a mystery how we're anchored in the bottom three.
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I'm not that big a fan of Upson but bringing in someone like him would have taken the pressure off Clark and Baker.
Agreed- he went on loan to a lower league club and the money saved on warnocks wage along with dawkins and sylla would have easily covered him or scharner .
But he's crap.
Not compared to our terrible defence.
Upson would have provided experience , organisation and improved the defence - i would have prefeered sharner but i'm sure their were other defensive options we could have looked at - lambert was saying how dunnes experience had been missed and how close to fitness he was- only for dunne had a relapse just after the window closed .
To risk losing £70m plus in relegation for the sake of giving a short loan deal to an experienced defender is nonsensical.
I repeat, Upson is crap. I'd rather our current two gain the experience everyone is pointing out that they lack (while hoping Vlaar or Dunne recover at some point) than waste money on him.
This debate reminds me of when you were all trying to convince me that Ireland was a good signing!
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Well Chris they don't seem to be learning from the experience they're getting. Clark is still making stupid errors and Baker is still constantly out of position, and still makes wreckless lunges. Upson would have added experience to our side.
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Ricardo Carvalho has been sitting on his hands at Real Madrid this year as 5th choice centre half and probably won't play another game his season. I know Eig is a big fan.
Carvalho would have been the one for me. Mourinho told him in August to find a new club. Surely we could have done a deal for him? Even if Real paid half his wages.
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Sharner or upson would have been better than clark or baker- upsons name is used as an example of the defenders available last month - there would have been many others - the fact that he recruited no defender at all is unacceptable given our plight.
The fact lambert thinks clark has had an excellent season shows just how deluded he is - he has lost the plot but im sure chris you will be defiantly singing his praises if he takes us down .
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In our position we can't afford to be giving people like Clark and Baker on the job training. They may need more experience yes, but at the moment they are a liability, particularly Clark. And also to play alongside an older head who's been there and done it is particularly invaluable. How much better did Curtis Davies look playing next to Martin Laursen?
We've conceded more goals than anyone else, largely because we've played Clark and Baker all season. That's a fact. Even ignoring how light we are in the fullback areas, and how lacking in quality, the centre half area has been shambolic.
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In our position we can't afford to be giving people like Clark and Baker on the job training. They may need more experience yes, but at the moment they are a liability, particularly Clark. And also to play alongside an older head who's been there and done it is particularly invaluable. How much better did Curtis Davies look playing next to Martin Laursen?
We've conceded more goals than anyone else, largely because we've played Clark and Baker all season. That's a fact. Even ignoring how light we are in the fullback areas, and how lacking in quality, the centre half area has been shambolic.
Exactly.
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Whatever your point of view, I think it's abundantly clear that whatever the plan for the defence was this season it hasn't worked. The stats and results support that, so not addressing it in January was negligent.
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Ricardo Carvalho has been sitting on his hands at Real Madrid this year as 5th choice centre half and probably won't play another game his season. I know Eig is a big fan.
Carvalho would have been the one for me. Mourinho told him in August to find a new club. Surely we could have done a deal for him? Even if Real paid half his wages.
Players like that wouldn't even look in our direction let alone sign for us what our policy of offering YTS wages.
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All the same, makes you wonder why Lambert didn't use some of that January transfer wedge to try and tempt Carvalho.
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Seriously?
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All the same, makes you wonder why Lambert didn't use some of that January transfer wedge to try and tempt Carvalho.
What transfer wedge?
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This debate reminds me of when you were all trying to convince me that Ireland was a good signing!
Or when some loons on here thought Gary Cahill was crap. ;)
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The next two games are so very crucial- lets hope whatever his faults lambert can get the players up for these games.
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I believe lambert could have strengthened the defence if he wished ., that should have been top priority.
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He won't be happy with you sharing a private email!
I believe lambert could have strengthened the defence if he wished ., that should have been top priority.
The two players he did get are just bizarre signings. He lost the plot there.
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Surely it was obvious to him that he needed to sign someone to go straight into the team not more squad players.
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Worrying times for sure,the loss of delph is the last thing we needed - lets hope vlaar steps in at the weekend - will be a nailbiting game for sure.
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Sharner or upson would have been better than clark or baker- upsons name is used as an example of the defenders available last month - there would have been many others - the fact that he recruited no defender at all is unacceptable given our plight.
The fact lambert thinks clark has had an excellent season shows just how deluded he is - he has lost the plot but im sure chris you will be defiantly singing his praises if he takes us down .
He's not deluded, he hasn't lost the plot, he's juts trying to keep a group of relatively inexperienced players motivated. Clark had a good game last night, other than one aberration, but because you've decided everything is shit you don't see it. The last thing he needs is the manager slagging him off in public.
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Problem is Chris that one aberration cost us the game. It's also not an isolated incident this season, the defence has consistently made glaring errors which have cost us games.
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This debate reminds me of when you were all trying to convince me that Ireland was a good signing!
Or when some loons on here thought Gary Cahill was crap. ;)
He's never been crap, just wasn't good enough for a regular starting place with us at the time, so he went to a smaller club to get regular football. Quite admirable in some respects but it buggered us about so I've little sympathy for the git. He's got his big move 4 years later but still doesn't look to have sorted out his concentration issue.
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Problem is Chris that one aberration cost us the game. It's also not an isolated incident this season, the defence has consistently made glaring errors which have cost us games.
I accept that but unless you can buy the best players at their peak you're always going to get mistakes.
My broader point is that, with 4 centre halves picking up wages currently, it was unlikely that we could afford another one good enough to significantly improve us.
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Sharner or upson would have been better than clark or baker- upsons name is used as an example of the defenders available last month - there would have been many others - the fact that he recruited no defender at all is unacceptable given our plight.
The fact lambert thinks clark has had an excellent season shows just how deluded he is - he has lost the plot but im sure chris you will be defiantly singing his praises if he takes us down .
He's not deluded, he hasn't lost the plot, he's juts trying to keep a group of relatively inexperienced players motivated. Clark had a good game last night, other than one aberration, but because you've decided everything is shit you don't see it. The last thing he needs is the manager slagging him off in public.
He lost the plot in January when he in his wisdom decided our defence didnt need strengthening.
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Problem is Chris that one aberration cost us the game. It's also not an isolated incident this season, the defence has consistently made glaring errors which have cost us games.
I accept that but unless you can buy the best players at their peak you're always going to get mistakes.
My broader point is that, with 4 centre halves picking up wages currently, it was unlikely that we could afford another one good enough to significantly improve us.
Why waste £2m on a midfielder when it could have been spent on a centreback?
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Sharner or upson would have been better than clark or baker- upsons name is used as an example of the defenders available last month - there would have been many others - the fact that he recruited no defender at all is unacceptable given our plight.
The fact lambert thinks clark has had an excellent season shows just how deluded he is - he has lost the plot but im sure chris you will be defiantly singing his praises if he takes us down .
He's not deluded, he hasn't lost the plot, he's juts trying to keep a group of relatively inexperienced players motivated. Clark had a good game last night, other than one aberration, but because you've decided everything is shit you don't see it. The last thing he needs is the manager slagging him off in public.
Everything is not shit by any means - the defence is poor and lacking experience , how does that equate to me deciding everything being shit?
I was pleased to see delphs display again last night , disappointed with gabby and nzogbia but we still have hope- far from agreeing with lamberts assessment that if we carry on playing like that we will win more than we lose though - i find it alarming that having on real serious attempt on target and creating little of note that the manager thinks we were excellent last night
Even more alarming he thinks clark has had an excellent season and we are playing really really well- we have won 1 league game in 11 and need to improve greatly in order to survive.
Bennetts displays in the last 2 games have improved but we cannot afford the silly goals we have given away this season and last night was another example.
Regarding clark , he is no young kid, he played under mon and this is his 4th season since breaking into the side , he is a full international and should know better than to made the silly errors he repeatedly makes this season.
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Again, he's sticking up for his players in public, why do you have a problem with that? If you say you don't have a problem with it then it makes your whole argument redundant.
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Again, he's sticking up for his players in public, why do you have a problem with that? If you say you don't have a problem with it then it makes your whole argument redundant.
Sticking up for them is admirable, if not essential. Caliming that they have been "excellent" all season is something else altogether given what we have all seen.
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Again, he's sticking up for his players in public, why do you have a problem with that? If you say you don't have a problem with it then it makes your whole argument redundant.
Sticking up for them is admirable, if not essential. Caliming that they have been "excellent" all season is something else altogether given what we have all seen.
What would you have been happy with? Good? Quite good? Mediocre? Indifferent? Patchy? He makes mistakes, as most players do, but he doesn't hide and a few encouraging words from his manager shouldn't be picked over so critically.
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IF the money was available to him in the Jan window, and he still failed to go out and get 2/3 experienced players to play in central defence, and central midfield, then he should go.His arrogance is detremental to the club.
Why did'nt he sell Bent, to anyone, QPR, anyone to buy the 2/3 players...why?
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IF the money was available to him in the Jan window, and he still failed to go out and get 2/3 experienced players to play in central defence, and central midfield, then he should go.His arrogance is detremental to the club.
Why did'nt he sell Bent, to anyone, QPR, anyone to buy the 2/3 players...why?
I don't trust him to buy anyone decent.
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Again, he's sticking up for his players in public, why do you have a problem with that? If you say you don't have a problem with it then it makes your whole argument redundant.
Sticking up for them is admirable, if not essential. Caliming that they have been "excellent" all season is something else altogether given what we have all seen.
What would you have been happy with? Good? Quite good? Mediocre? Indifferent? Patchy? He makes mistakes, as most players do, but he doesn't hide and a few encouraging words from his manager shouldn't be picked over so critically.
I've got my arse in my hand where our manager is concerned because I don't think he's doing a very good job.
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Again, he's sticking up for his players in public, why do you have a problem with that? If you say you don't have a problem with it then it makes your whole argument redundant.
Sticking up for them is admirable, if not essential. Caliming that they have been "excellent" all season is something else altogether given what we have all seen.
What would you have been happy with? Good? Quite good? Mediocre? Indifferent? Patchy? He makes mistakes, as most players do, but he doesn't hide and a few encouraging words from his manager shouldn't be picked over so critically.
I've got my arse in my hand where our manager is concerned because I don't think he's doing a very good job.
Saying relatively inexperienced players have done a good job in difficult circumstances is good for them to hear as they are obviously having confidence problems. Constantly using superlatives for players who themselves are constantly making mistakes and costing points makes him sound ridiculous. So count me in the group of people who think he should choose his words more carefully to help his own credibility.
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IF the money was available to him in the Jan window, and he still failed to go out and get 2/3 experienced players to play in central defence, and central midfield, then he should go.His arrogance is detremental to the club.
Why did'nt he sell Bent, to anyone, QPR, anyone to buy the 2/3 players...why?
I don't trust him to buy anyone decent.
Benteke?
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Again, he's sticking up for his players in public, why do you have a problem with that? If you say you don't have a problem with it then it makes your whole argument redundant.
Sticking up for them is admirable, if not essential. Caliming that they have been "excellent" all season is something else altogether given what we have all seen.
What would you have been happy with? Good? Quite good? Mediocre? Indifferent? Patchy? He makes mistakes, as most players do, but he doesn't hide and a few encouraging words from his manager shouldn't be picked over so critically.
I sat there at half time last night for a moment wondering what i'd say to Clark in the dressing room if i was Lambert. Do i ask him what the fuck he was doing in front of all the others or tell him to keep his chin up? I hope it was the latter but i'd be having a quiet word in his ear this morning.
Other than that, the defence looked a bit more solid than they have done.
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... i find it alarming that having no real serious attempt on target and creating little of note that the manager thinks we were excellent last night
"no serious attempt"? Other than the Tevez off-the-line clearance in the 1st half, the Toure saving header in the 2nd and the credible claims for a penalty late on?
Say these things enough and they become believable.
As for what managers say, I'm amazed so much of what is said is pored over and dissected so assiduously by us fans: we know that most of what they say is either drivel or aimed not at us but at players, their Chairman or other managers.
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IF the money was available to him in the Jan window, and he still failed to go out and get 2/3 experienced players to play in central defence, and central midfield, then he should go.His arrogance is detremental to the club.
Why did'nt he sell Bent, to anyone, QPR, anyone to buy the 2/3 players...why?
I don't trust him to buy anyone decent.
Benteke?
Is that all we are going to hear when anyone brings up the crap signings he's made? ''What about Benteke?''
He's the one pearl in a sea of shite. Reminds me of the Liverpool game keep getting brought up as a Lambert defense as we conceded our 18th goal in 4 games without reply.
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IF the money was available to him in the Jan window, and he still failed to go out and get 2/3 experienced players to play in central defence, and central midfield, then he should go.His arrogance is detremental to the club.
Why did'nt he sell Bent, to anyone, QPR, anyone to buy the 2/3 players...why?
I don't trust him to buy anyone decent.
Benteke?
Is that all we are going to hear when anyone brings up the crap signings he's made? ''What about Benteke?''
He's the one pearl in a sea of shite. Reminds me of the Liverpool game keep getting brought up as a Lambert defense as we conceded our 18th goal in 4 games without reply.
I think it was probably your use of the word "anyone" whcih invited the response.
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A sea of shite? Obviously not been watching Lowton or Westwood this season then, both great young players. Vlaar when fit is a step up from Dunne and Collins.
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... i find it alarming that having no real serious attempt on target and creating little of note that the manager thinks we were excellent last night
"no serious attempt"? Other than the Tevez off-the-line clearance in the 1st half, the Toure saving header in the 2nd and the credible claims for a penalty late on?
Say these things enough and they become believable.
As for what managers say, I'm amazed so much of what is said is pored over and dissected so assiduously by us fans: we know that most of what they say is either drivel or aimed not at us but at players, their Chairman or other managers.
One serious attempt my post was meant to say, you seem to have changed it to no serious attempt - the benteke header yes was our only real on target attempt- i thought the lack of creativity and lack of credible goal attempts last night was poor and the performance was far from excellent.
"We're playing really well " says lambert- one win in 11 games suggests not - we have gifted goals galore this season and the buck stops with the manager.
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IF the money was available to him in the Jan window, and he still failed to go out and get 2/3 experienced players to play in central defence, and central midfield, then he should go.His arrogance is detremental to the club.
Why did'nt he sell Bent, to anyone, QPR, anyone to buy the 2/3 players...why?
I don't trust him to buy anyone decent.
Benteke?
Is that all we are going to hear when anyone brings up the crap signings he's made? ''What about Benteke?''
He's the one pearl in a sea of shite. Reminds me of the Liverpool game keep getting brought up as a Lambert defense as we conceded our 18th goal in 4 games without reply.
I think it was probably your use of the word "anyone" whcih invited the response.
It wasn't my reply but I share the sentiments. If we are working on a very small budget, the only transfer that looks good quality is the £7m international. The lower priced ones, which I'd guess will be the stock signings we make from now on look tosh.
Bennett, Lowton, Westwood, Sylla, El Hamadi, Dawkins, Guzan, Bowery, Vlaar. How many honestly would make other premier league sides? 2 maybe? £18m spent on that lot.
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IF the money was available to him in the Jan window, and he still failed to go out and get 2/3 experienced players to play in central defence, and central midfield, then he should go.His arrogance is detremental to the club.
Why did'nt he sell Bent, to anyone, QPR, anyone to buy the 2/3 players...why?
I don't trust him to buy anyone decent.
Benteke?
Is that all we are going to hear when anyone brings up the crap signings he's made? ''What about Benteke?''
He's the one pearl in a sea of shite. Reminds me of the Liverpool game keep getting brought up as a Lambert defense as we conceded our 18th goal in 4 games without reply.
I think it was probably your use of the word "anyone" whcih invited the response.
Which is the right answer. Lowton and Westwood have been good as well but they've just played too many games and it's beginning to tell. Re-signing Guzan was also a very good move. The jury's out on the rest though until next season.
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Ricardo Carvalho has been sitting on his hands at Real Madrid this year as 5th choice centre half and probably won't play another game his season. I know Eig is a big fan.
But Clark is so much better.
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A sea of shite? Obviously not been watching Lowton or Westwood this season then, both great young players. Vlaar when fit is a step up from Dunne and Collins.
Disagree.
Vlaar i'd rate below Dunne. Can't see what anyone has seen in him, positionally not the best and couldn't organise a raffle. The only things going for him are he can bring the ball out of defence and has a cool if undeserved nickname.
Lowton and Westwood, I might just be a miserable sod but to me they haven't shown anything to me to suggest that are both ''great young players''. I can't see either of them getting in another Premier League side bar perhaps Reading.
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The Swansea chairman has said that although they don't want to lose Laudrup they have already put in place arrangements to appoint his successor. Is that how a club should be run?
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The Swansea chairman has said that although they don't want to lose Laudrup they have already put in place arrangements to appoint his successor. Is that how a club should be run?
TBF, there's no chance of Villa 'losing' Lambchop. He's here until the pain of employing him outweighs the pain of paying him off*
*May
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I like Westwood and Lowton. I think they'll make the grade long term. That said they'll never be more than average prem players (IF they're lucky). The problem is that they've been given too much too soon. Both needs a spell out of the side, particularly Lowton. You're talking about players who should maybe be playing 15-20 games at most in their first season, being eased in, but they've been thrown into the mixer. Young players will always be inconsistent.
But yes, Benteke aside the rest of the new signings have been tosh.
I'd have a fit Dunne over Vlaar any day of the week. A much better player on his day. A proper defender. His influence and attitude are questionnable so in that regard I do think Vlaar has an advantage. His attitude has been first rate. He's just not brilliant defensively.
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A sea of shite? Obviously not been watching Lowton or Westwood this season then, both great young players. Vlaar when fit is a step up from Dunne and Collins.
Disagree.
Vlaar i'd rate below Dunne. Can't see what anyone has seen in him, positionally not the best and couldn't organise a raffle. The only things going for him are he can bring the ball out of defence and has a cool if undeserved nickname.
Lowton and Westwood, I might just be a miserable sod but to me they haven't shown anything to me to suggest that are both ''great young players''. I can't see either of them getting in another Premier League side bar perhaps Reading.
Same here. I lost count of the times Lowton lost his man yesterday, leading to crosses coming in. Both might be decent players one day, but they've been massively overplayed this season and it isn't doing them any favours.
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The Swansea chairman has said that although they don't want to lose Laudrup they have already put in place arrangements to appoint his successor. Is that how a club should be run?
TBF, there's no chance of Villa 'losing' Lambchop. He's here until the pain of employing him outweighs the pain of paying him off*
*May
If we go down, I want him to stay and clean up the fcuking mess he's made
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The Swansea chairman has said that although they don't want to lose Laudrup they have already put in place arrangements to appoint his successor. Is that how a club should be run?
TBF, there's no chance of Villa 'losing' Lambchop. He's here until the pain of employing him outweighs the pain of paying him off*
*May
If we go down, I want him to stay and clean up the fcuking mess he's made
He doesn't deserve the chance and should be sacked on the spot.
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The Swansea chairman has said that although they don't want to lose Laudrup they have already put in place arrangements to appoint his successor. Is that how a club should be run?
If we did that in their circumstances, this place would go into meltdown at the defeatism and small-time thinking of practically admitting our manager is offski.
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... i find it alarming that having no real serious attempt on target and creating little of note that the manager thinks we were excellent last night
"no serious attempt"? Other than the Tevez off-the-line clearance in the 1st half, the Toure saving header in the 2nd and the credible claims for a penalty late on?
Say these things enough and they become believable.
As for what managers say, I'm amazed so much of what is said is pored over and dissected so assiduously by us fans: we know that most of what they say is either drivel or aimed not at us but at players, their Chairman or other managers.
One serious attempt my post was meant to say, you seem to have changed it to no serious attempt - the benteke header yes was our only real on target attempt- i thought the lack of creativity and lack of credible goal attempts last night was poor and the performance was far from excellent.
"We're playing really well " says lambert- one win in 11 games suggests not - we have gifted goals galore this season and the buck stops with the manager.
I thought the performance was okay but I agree we lacked the creativity to put Citeh under concerted pressure. We had more than one serious attempt at goal (honestly!) but the crossing was poor, the support around Benteke was poor and our inability to get wide to provide support for the full-backs was terrible.
That said, the opposition were comfortable in defence and the enforced substitution of Rodwell played to their advantage (in pushing YT deeper).
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A sea of shite? Obviously not been watching Lowton or Westwood this season then, both great young players. Vlaar when fit is a step up from Dunne and Collins.
Disagree.
Vlaar i'd rate below Dunne. Can't see what anyone has seen in him, positionally not the best and couldn't organise a raffle. The only things going for him are he can bring the ball out of defence and has a cool if undeserved nickname.
Lowton and Westwood, I might just be a miserable sod but to me they haven't shown anything to me to suggest that are both ''great young players''. I can't see either of them getting in another Premier League side bar perhaps Reading.
Same here. I lost count of the times Lowton lost his man yesterday, leading to crosses coming in. Both might be decent players one day, but they've been massively overplayed this season and it isn't doing them any favours.
Lowton has got progressively worse this season.
Westwood needs stronger players around him.
Guzan's re-signing was a smart move.
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Mister e - yes we lacked support to benteke, the lack of real quality width this season is depressing- nzogbia and gabby were both poor and i really can't see why Carruthers hasn't had a chance this season- he is direct , runs at players , has pace and good delivery - the full backs are often crossing from 30 yards out and benteke is starved of quality service.
I agree rodwell going off was good for city and not for us.
Lowton and Westwood are both tiring as we get to the business end of the season and its a worry.
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Lowton and Westwood are decent and could be ok with the right players around them. Unfortunately we don't have those players and they shouldn't be playing every week.
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The Swansea chairman has said that although they don't want to lose Laudrup they have already put in place arrangements to appoint his successor. Is that how a club should be run?
If we did that in their circumstances, this place would go into meltdown at the defeatism and small-time thinking of practically admitting our manager is offski.
Yes, but the Swansea chairman actually seems to have a clue about running a club and so I'd imagine the Swansea fans trust him somewhat more than we do that idiot Lerner.
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I agree with Des that if we go down Lambert should be made to stay and sort out the mess he has made but only on the condition that once he has cleaned it up he gets the bullet instantly and is never again allowed to inflict on the club the laughing stock of the Premiership role we have endured for two seasons or more. He is a clown and he is in denial.
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All of this talk on here is immaterial until after Reading and QPR. If it goes against us, then we will see who think he should stay with the trapdoor staring us in the face. Once you start losing six pointers, the gap opens and the whole thing gets out of control.
All we can do is hope that we have it in us to win.
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Its in our own hands, so lets keep it that way
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Lets just try and organise that fucking back four for the next two games. That is all.
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Seriously?
No.
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Still in for me, unsurprisingly.
Thought I'd bump this thread as it's normally posted in extremely quickly when we lose.....
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Still out for me, just so that Drummond isn't disappointed.
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I'm back on the fence.
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Simple for me now, if he keeps us up he should keep his job if he doesn't he should lose it.
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Still out for me, just so that Drummond isn't disappointed.
Thanks mate, just what I needed on a Monday, reassurance that the world hasn't gone to pot on a weekend.
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Still out for me, just so that Drummond isn't disappointed.
Thanks mate, just what I needed on a Monday, reassurance that the world hasn't gone to pot on a weekend.
Hopefully you'll be needing to ask him again next Monday.
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Still in for me, unsurprisingly.
Thought I'd bump this thread as it's normally posted in extremely quickly when we lose.....
Which is probably why the thread has so many pages!
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If we can get any kind of positive run going in the remaining games it will be a good sign going into next season. But it's absolutely vital he learns from his errors and sorts out our weakness in defence and our lack of reliable experience.
If we struggle through and just about hang on by the skin of our teeth I'd still be tempted to turf him in all honesty though. There's been some positive aspects lately but at the same time, I want to see that Lambert has learnt from these and can keep them going. I want to see that the defence keeps improving (slightly).
If he's in charge next season, in the Prem and things start as they have this season, we should act swiftly. If we're still scrapping around the bottom 3 in November he has to go. We need enough time to get a new man and leave him time to identify tarets for the Jan window.
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If we struggle through and just about hang on by the skin of our teeth I'd still be tempted to turf him in all honesty though.
I genuinely think there is no chance whatsoever of this happening (the turfing out). He said Lerner told him this, and I believe him.
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If we can get any kind of positive run going in the remaining games it will be a good sign going into next season. But it's absolutely vital he learns from his errors and sorts out our weakness in defence and our lack of reliable experience.
If we struggle through and just about hang on by the skin of our teeth I'd still be tempted to turf him in all honesty though. There's been some positive aspects lately but at the same time, I want to see that Lambert has learnt from these and can keep them going. I want to see that the defence keeps improving (slightly).
If he's in charge next season, in the Prem and things start as they have this season, we should act swiftly. If we're still scrapping around the bottom 3 in November he has to go. We need enough time to get a new man and leave him time to identify tarets for the Jan window.
Very good assessment supertom.
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If we struggle through and just about hang on by the skin of our teeth I'd still be tempted to turf him in all honesty though.
I genuinely think there is no chance whatsoever of this happening (the turfing out). He said Lerner told him this, and I believe him.
Mcleish was saying similar the day before he was sacked- he said randy was behind me and spoken with him , he said he went into faulkners office to talk plans for next season and was sacked- what lerner may have told lambert several months ago may change by the end of season - i think if relegated he will go , but lets hope we survive .
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If we struggle through and just about hang on by the skin of our teeth I'd still be tempted to turf him in all honesty though.
I genuinely think there is no chance whatsoever of this happening (the turfing out). He said Lerner told him this, and I believe him.
Mcleish was saying similar the day before he was sacked- he said randy was behind me and spoken with him , he said he went into faulkners office to talk plans for next season and was sacked- what lerner may have told lambert several months ago may change by the end of season - i think if relegated he will go , but lets hope we survive .
McLeish can say what he likes, but the world and his wife knew he was gone long before then.
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I have never wanted Lambert out, although it has been hard to defend him or not call for his head on occasions (too many occasions). I can see what he is tryng to do. In fairness, I think we all can. Unfortunately we can also all see the league table and the goals that go into our net. But the grass isn't always greener. Last summer we all seemed to want PL or OGS and let's face it, they were both gambles. The grass is always greener/next bright young thing always reminds me of Graham Turner unfortunately.
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If we struggle through and just about hang on by the skin of our teeth I'd still be tempted to turf him in all honesty though.
I genuinely think there is no chance whatsoever of this happening (the turfing out). He said Lerner told him this, and I believe him.
So do I. I honestly don't think we need another summer spent searching for a new manager.
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I'd stick with Lambert for sure. With the current squad I don't think any manager would fare much better and might even do worse.
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If we struggle through and just about hang on by the skin of our teeth I'd still be tempted to turf him in all honesty though.
I genuinely think there is no chance whatsoever of this happening (the turfing out). He said Lerner told him this, and I believe him.
So do I. I honestly don't think we need another summer spent searching for a new manager.
As i said, lerner may well have told him at Xmas as lambert suggested, but that doesn't mean that he cannot change his mind since then - we have won 2 leagues games this year and been humiliated in 2 cups, i would think lerner will see how the season pans out before deciding on anything.
He would hardly tell his manager if he was thinking of sacking him- if we survive i think he will stay if not i think he will go.
If he stays i think he will have learnt a lot from this season as will the players and three decent signings could see us in midtable nxt season .
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I agree. I think a decent number of us are tired of that annual circus.
I also think Lerner can see that the current manager still has very good levels of support from the fans.
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after the first 5 games there were lots of posts about the peaks and troughs off the coming season. if we had been limping along not trying to change the way we play football then the patiencce would have worn thin very much more quickly because of the inconsistency in results.
i would say the majority have stuck with what we have seen and backed the manager but some of the histrionics from the minority have been nothing short of spectacular. we arent safe, far from it, but the change on the pitch has been needed and will make us stronger in the long run.
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We tried to change too much too soon, but Lambert had to put with damage of previous 3 seasons
I would keep him, i think we seen things turning last 5-6 weeks, just hope its enough
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Histrionics ? I think the heaviest defeat in 139 yrs, the losing to a 4th tier team in a 2 leg semi final along with some other dreadful lows have been just cause for criticism - lets hope the corner has been turned and we pull through- everyone will be stronger for the experience, but the criticism in my book was justified.
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If we struggle through and just about hang on by the skin of our teeth I'd still be tempted to turf him in all honesty though.
I genuinely think there is no chance whatsoever of this happening (the turfing out). He said Lerner told him this, and I believe him.
Mcleish was saying similar the day before he was sacked- he said randy was behind me and spoken with him , he said he went into faulkners office to talk plans for next season and was sacked- what lerner may have told lambert several months ago may change by the end of season - i think if relegated he will go , but lets hope we survive .
Mcleish was gone by the time of Bolton at the latest.
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Although on face value they seemed to disagree, I agree with both rutski and eastie. We have seen the positives and generally been very supportive, but the lows have been more often and more spectacular than the highs so you can't knock the 'histrionics of the few'. PL has been lucky it has been relatively low key and relatively a few.
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Last March, the manager walked onto the pitch at the DW and was given a barrage of abuse, after hearing songs clamouring for his sacking.
This March, the manager walks on the pitch, gets clapped and has his name chanted, after it had been sung during the match.
This is despite the previous manager being statistically better (I think we will finish with more wins and more points than last season).
Unless we are relegated, there is no chance he will be sacked and even then, I am not too sure he would go.
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after the first 5 games there were lots of posts about the peaks and troughs off the coming season. if we had been limping along not trying to change the way we play football then the patiencce would have worn thin very much more quickly because of the inconsistency in results.i would say the majority have stuck with what we have seen and backed the manager but some of the histrionics from the minority have been nothing short of spectacular. we arent safe, far from it, but the change on the pitch has been needed and will make us stronger in the long run.
I personally think he will stay whatever happens at the end of the season. As for the style of football, yes we have seen patches of good football played at times this season, but we've also seen a lot of long balls in the general direction of Benteke as well.
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I'm sure he wont be sacked. But think it is more to do with Randy being sick of the compensation payouts.
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If we struggle through and just about hang on by the skin of our teeth I'd still be tempted to turf him in all honesty though.
I genuinely think there is no chance whatsoever of this happening (the turfing out). He said Lerner told him this, and I believe him.
Mcleish was saying similar the day before he was sacked- he said randy was behind me and spoken with him , he said he went into faulkners office to talk plans for next season and was sacked- what lerner may have told lambert several months ago may change by the end of season - i think if relegated he will go , but lets hope we survive .
McLeish can say what he likes, but the world and his wife knew he was gone long before then.
I stood at Wigan last season and knew McLeish was gone.
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If we struggle through and just about hang on by the skin of our teeth I'd still be tempted to turf him in all honesty though.
I genuinely think there is no chance whatsoever of this happening (the turfing out). He said Lerner told him this, and I believe him.
Mcleish was saying similar the day before he was sacked- he said randy was behind me and spoken with him , he said he went into faulkners office to talk plans for next season and was sacked- what lerner may have told lambert several months ago may change by the end of season - i think if relegated he will go , but lets hope we survive .
McLeish can say what he likes, but the world and his wife knew he was gone long before then.
I stood at Wigan last season and knew McLeish was gone.
the day the away fans turn is a big one and boy did they turn that day. i dont get the feeling that lambert will be sacrificed whatever the outcome.
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I stood at Wigan last season and knew McLeish was gone.
Same here. It was vicious that day.
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I'm sure he wont be sacked. But think it is more to do with Randy being sick of the compensation payouts.
I think that'll be one of the factors contributing to his decision. How much did McLeish cost us? Am sure someone mentioned it after the accounts came out last week.
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Another factor is that, short of a new owner coming in, his approach is right in getting a better footballing philosophy started and trying to spread the money around by scouting lower division and overseas players. Prety much the opposite to what we had under MON.
The irony being that we probably need a bit more of the MON type 'tried and tested PL players' to balance things out a little.
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why would you want to keep a manager who had just relegated the club? I'm sorry but I just don't understand the cultre of rewarding failure in any profession and football should be no different. i can't believe, after a round of compensation payments that would pay off some third world countries' national debt, that Lambert does not have a clause in his contract giving the club the right to terminate his contract if the club are relegated. With our track record it would be madness not to insert such a clause.
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If Lambert signs some decent defenders and maybe a more commanding midfielder, then I think he's our best option. Given that with our budget, mid-table dullness is about the best we can hope for, I can't see any other convincing candidates.
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why would you want to keep a manager who had just relegated the club? I'm sorry but I just don't understand the cultre of rewarding failure in any profession and football should be no different. i can't believe, after a round of compensation payments that would pay off some third world countries' national debt, that Lambert does not have a clause in his contract giving the club the right to terminate his contract if the club are relegated. With our track record it would be madness not to insert such a clause.
But then if you are the only viable candidate for the job it would be madness to accept such a clause.
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why would you want to keep a manager who had just relegated the club? I'm sorry but I just don't understand the cultre of rewarding failure in any profession and football should be no different. i can't believe, after a round of compensation payments that would pay off some third world countries' national debt, that Lambert does not have a clause in his contract giving the club the right to terminate his contract if the club are relegated. With our track record it would be madness not to insert such a clause.
No other manager at no other club gets one.
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McDermott has gone.
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Reading need this man
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OavHq6QsFp8/TfqDt-EzISI/AAAAAAAAAfM/GvW3l56zZss/s1600/alex_mcleish_getty_226282.jpg)
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McDermott has gone.
.....5 weeks after picking up his Manager Of The Month award.
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Worries me a little. They were down with him staying. Not sure who's around mind. Crazy De Canio?
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Worries me a little. They were down with him staying. Not sure who's around mind. Crazy De Canio?
My money would be on Di Matteo. New owner wants to show ambition.
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We tried to change too much too soon, but Lambert had to put with damage of previous 3 seasons
I would keep him, i think we seen things turning last 5-6 weeks, just hope its enough
I'd say it was more a case of allowing ourselves to sink into a position where we had to change too much too late.
We'd had three summer windows under O'Neill, Nobody and then McLeish that had seen player movement and lack of it deplete a squad that had already been built on foundations of sand.
If anything, player acquisitions overall had made things worse rather than better.
I didn't see any alternative but to do what Lambert tried at the beginning of the summer. We certainly didn't need a 'I can get more out of what we have' merchant drafting a few more deadbeats whose motivation at getting a contract wouldn't have lasted until September.
If he keeps us up it will be something of an achievement. If we go down it will be more a case of not being as successful as we needed to be.
He may or may not be the best man for the job, but he is the current holder and it would do more damage changing whether we stay up or go down.
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Worries me a little. They were down with him staying. Not sure who's around mind. Crazy De Canio?
My money would be on Di Matteo. New owner wants to show ambition.
My advice would be to bang your money on this quick-
@indykaila: Paolo Di Canio was at the the Madejski Stadium on Saturday. http://t.co/KxXCIDheUb
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The problem is always going to be that there is no way to know for sure if failing to pickup an experienced midfielder at the start of January was the right thing to do. In the summer I understand the choice, the medical team thought Dunne would be back by early October and he had a lot of business to do anyway so it made sense. After that dunne has clearly shown himself to be on his last legs with no return date imminent. Nothing I've heard suggests that he didn't have the cash to get someone on a short deal so I think it's fairly clear that it was a football decision not a finance one. His faith in Clark and Baker is laudable but I think it would Do both of them some good to have a game off every now and then.
Aside from that I can't get the pathetic 2nd half vs Bradford too far from my thoughts when I think about Lambert, I think he's done a lot of things that I'm happy with but I just can't get past that game. We played 2 legs against a side I'd have thought our reserves could beat over the tie and we never looked like winning it. As much as you can fault players at times the tactical decisions involved in those games are what you'd expect from a sunday morning team full of guys who are still half pissed from the night before.
My vote is still set at Out mainly because I think he's only still here because of the "at least he's not McLeish" element, which i'm not sure qualifies as a good reason to keep a manager.
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Elvis Costello was at the the Madejski Stadium on Saturday. http://t.co/KxXCIDheUb
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It is going to take a lot for Reading to stay up with their run in.
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Well let's hope they're one of three teams other than Villa who fail to stay up.
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Elvis Costello was at the the Madejski Stadium on Saturday. http://t.co/KxXCIDheUb
Only because he didn't want to go to Chelsea.
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Accidents will happen Nathan
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If we can get any kind of positive run going in the remaining games it will be a good sign going into next season. But it's absolutely vital he learns from his errors and sorts out our weakness in defence and our lack of reliable experience.
If we struggle through and just about hang on by the skin of our teeth I'd still be tempted to turf him in all honesty though. There's been some positive aspects lately but at the same time, I want to see that Lambert has learnt from these and can keep them going. I want to see that the defence keeps improving (slightly).
If he's in charge next season, in the Prem and things start as they have this season, we should act swiftly. If we're still scrapping around the bottom 3 in November he has to go. We need enough time to get a new man and leave him time to identify tarets for the Jan window.
Pretty much where I'm at.
There is definitely an argument to pot him if we just about scrape by and stay up. This season has been horrid - and a large part of that is down to him and his choices, vis a vis transfers and tactics.
But for the sake of continuity, I think we need to exhaust every opportunity in making the thing work. Give him as long as possible - but not carte blanche to deliver the same shite indefinitely. If -somehow- we stay up, but our play is littered with the same basic errors and lack of organization next Aug- Oct, I don't see any reason to continue with him.
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He will be success for us. It would be folly to get rid of him in the near future.
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In any case I can't see Randy forking out more cash on sacking a manager. Unless Lambert walked of his own accord, I think he'll be here at least another year. If we're staring at League 1 this time next year, then Randy will probably have to take some action but I don't think it'll come to that.
I would also not want to see us sack Lambert unless we had someone lined up, ready to come in. We can't be in that situation again where there's no one available and willing to come and end up with a Houllier again (granted that was down to O Neill's timing of fucking off) or McLeish. Randy got it majorly wrong. Time will tell whether he's dropped a bollock with Lambert. Personally given that I wanted Lambert in the summer, I'd hope to be proven right as many others here will too. No one wanted McLeish and everyone knew what was coming.
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Where has the glorious gnasher gone? Not seen him on here for a few days , regarding lambert i agree the last few games since settling on a formation that suits have been better , lets see how things pan out in the next few weeks .
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Even if Lambert fails his appointment cannot be seen as an error by the club management. He was the man most of us wanted, and there was no reason to suggest he couldn't do a job for us. If he fails it will be just one of those things.
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He will be success for us. It would be folly to get rid of him in the near future.
Totally agree with you snood. Continuity is what we need. If by Christmas next season we are still scrapping then get rid. Keep him for now and lets see what happens.
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Where has the glorious gnasher gone? Not seen him on here for a few days , regarding lambert i agree the last few games since settling on a formation that suits have been better , lets see how things pan out in the next few weeks .
Still lurking eastie. One swallow doesn't make a summer as they say, More impressed by the effort against Reading rather than any vast improvement quality wise. The problems are still there with the defence so we're only a game away from being right back upto our necks in it . Haven't changed my opinion post January - keep us up and possibly he gets another chance to fix all his mistakes. Go down and he should go.
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I agree with Greg for possibly the first time!
The board made it clear in January they were sticking with him and that was clear as any other club would've fired their manager with those results.
Will look at it again in May when we know our fate.
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Where has the glorious gnasher gone? Not seen him on here for a few days , regarding lambert i agree the last few games since settling on a formation that suits have been better , lets see how things pan out in the next few weeks .
The issue is, there were plenty of people on here who called this formation as the way to go before christmas, it's a bit worrying how long it's taken for him to see, 4231 when we need to attack, 4321 when we need to be a bit tighter, it's really not complicated. We don't have a strong enough midfield to rely on 2 in the central areas so it's the only sensible option, we also have good options for every position except maybe no direct replacements for Weimann and Benteke.
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Where has the glorious gnasher gone? Not seen him on here for a few days , regarding lambert i agree the last few games since settling on a formation that suits have been better , lets see how things pan out in the next few weeks .
The issue is, there were plenty of people on here who called this formation as the way to go before christmas, it's a bit worrying how long it's taken for him to see, 4231 when we need to attack, 4321 when we need to be a bit tighter, it's really not complicated. We don't have a strong enough midfield to rely on 2 in the central areas so it's the only sensible option, we also have good options for every position except maybe no direct replacements for Weimann and Benteke.
Yes it is the best system for the players we have, thank god he's scrapped the 3 at the back,although it has taken far too long to get the right formation and starting eleven.
Lets hope for a good run in and evaluate things in may.
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Where has the glorious gnasher gone? Not seen him on here for a few days , regarding lambert i agree the last few games since settling on a formation that suits have been better , lets see how things pan out in the next few weeks .
The issue is, there were plenty of people on here who called this formation as the way to go before christmas, it's a bit worrying how long it's taken for him to see, 4231 when we need to attack, 4321 when we need to be a bit tighter, it's really not complicated. We don't have a strong enough midfield to rely on 2 in the central areas so it's the only sensible option, we also have good options for every position except maybe no direct replacements for Weimann and Benteke.
I've certainly been pushing for the 3 MF / 3 offensive players for a while and I think it works well away from home.
AT VP, with a large pitch to play on, we do get exposed down the flanks. But without a good pair of up-and-down wingers to both attack and cover the fullbacks, I think we are where we are.
Herd - for his aggression, energy and general coolness (Chelsea away, excepted) - should be in the squad if fit, since his covering of the fullbacks was particularly impressive last season; along with the other MF suspects (Westie, BB, Delph, Sylla; possibly KEA).
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Where has the glorious gnasher gone? Not seen him on here for a few days , regarding lambert i agree the last few games since settling on a formation that suits have been better , lets see how things pan out in the next few weeks .
We don't have a strong enough midfield to rely on 2 in the central areas
I've been saying this for a while. Playing four attackers leaves us woefully short in the middle.
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Still out for me. A win against Reading isn't enough to change my opinion on him. It hasn't been a bad month but overall still way below par.
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Anyone know where we are on a current form league table? And how it compares to those around us?
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Anyone know where we are on a current form league table? And how it compares to those around us?
Somebody posted one the other day, we were around 11th or 12th.
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Anyone know where we are on a current form league table? And how it compares to those around us?
12th.
http://www.footballformguide.net/form/barclays-premier-league
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Anyone know where we are on a current form league table? And how it compares to those around us?
Last 6 matches we are 12th. MONderland are clear bottom, which is heartbreaking to see.
http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/form-guide.html?tableView=total
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Anybody know what the little genius has spent since he's been at Sunderland?
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Interesting that on the last 6 away games we are in the top 10 form guide but at home we are 19th having lost 5 of the last 6 - it will be our run in at villa park that will make or break our season - a win on Saturday would be fantastic.
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Anybody know what the little genius has spent since he's been at Sunderland?
Net: 18,350,000
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Anybody know what the little genius has spent since he's been at Sunderland?
Net: 18,350,000
He spent HOW MUCH on a net!?
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Anybody know what the little genius has spent since he's been at Sunderland?
Net: 18,350,000
He spent HOW MUCH on a net!?
It was a British net though.
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Interesting that on the last 6 away games we are in the top 10 form guide but at home we are 19th having lost 5 of the last 6 - it will be our run in at villa park that will make or break our season - a win on Saturday would be fantastic.
Interesting that on the last 6 away games we are in the top 10 form guide but at home we are 19th having lost 5 of the last 6 - it will be our run in at villa park that will make or break our season - a win on Saturday would be fantastic.
... and, being 19th in the home-games table, do you think we'll achieve it? QPR's away form is pretty much a mirror of our home form.
The last time we played a team with a similar away form (WetSpam) we did okay, but the force is with QPR and it'll be a jittery old game.
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Anybody know what the little genius has spent since he's been at Sunderland?
Net: 18,350,000
He spent HOW MUCH on a net!?
It was a British net though.
On the subject of him, probably worth mentioning Matt Law's piece in The Mirror: http://t.co/hu48BdlLSA
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In still. We won't go down.
This time next year we could be comfortably mid-table. How exciting would that be? Expectations nicely managed to almost less than zero by the boys in the back of the shop.
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In still. We won't go down.
This time next year we could be comfortably mid-table. How exciting would that be? Expectations nicely managed to almost less than zero by the boys in the back of the shop.
Everything means less than zero, Ron. Nonetheless, I agree with you.
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Its too late to get rid of him now but to be honest I have lost all faith in him.
He has had so many opportunities to just get the basics right so that at the very least we weren't involved in a relegation battle and he has failed dismally!
Having said that keep him as I am fed up of paying managers off for failure!
We can't lose by keeping him now as most of our aspirations are finished, our sole aspiration is survival in whatever league we end up in!
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Anyone know where we are on a current form league table? And how it compares to those around us?
12th.
http://www.footballformguide.net/form/barclays-premier-league
So looking at that we're averaging just above a 1 point a game. That would take us to 36or37. Enough? Not enough with our goal difference,
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Anyone know where we are on a current form league table? And how it compares to those around us?
12th.
http://www.footballformguide.net/form/barclays-premier-league
So looking at that we're averaging just above a 1 point a game. That would take us to 36or37. Enough? Not enough with our goal difference,
But still more than five points between now and the end of the season, which is what people took issue with.
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Anybody know what the little genius has spent since he's been at Sunderland?
Net: 18,350,000
He spent HOW MUCH on a net!?
It was a British net though.
It won't be cast far and wide though.
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why would you want to keep a manager who had just relegated the club? I'm sorry but I just don't understand the cultre of rewarding failure in any profession and football should be no different. i can't believe, after a round of compensation payments that would pay off some third world countries' national debt, that Lambert does not have a clause in his contract giving the club the right to terminate his contract if the club are relegated. With our track record it would be madness not to insert such a clause.
No other manager at no other club gets one.
Didnt Mcleish have one in his Birmingham Contract and his Money Halved with them from 1m to 500k then we offered him 2m?
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Anybody know what the little genius has spent since he's been at Sunderland?
Net: 18,350,000
He spent HOW MUCH on a net!?
It was a British net though.
On the subject of him, probably worth mentioning Matt Law's piece in The Mirror: http://t.co/hu48BdlLSA
Good article. And like MON, Moyes is respected by media and fans but doesn't seem to have that 'X factor' that the top clubs look for. I also wondered how he was going to move anywhere other than down or sideways when he left us. Sunderland always looked a sideways move as they had publicly stated a tightening of the belt after the Roy Keane years.
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We seem to be playing some nice, passing football don't we?......
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I always said Keep him, but there have been some shit your pants worrying times so far. I think the deals he does in the summer will be the thing that makes or breaks my long term opinion. A quality centre half, an outright winger, a left back and a versatile midfielder.
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The last few games have shown promise, it took him a long time to work out the best formation and players to fit that formation but the last 6 games or so have been encouraging .
There are some decent players who will get better as time goes on and the addition of 3 experienced quality players could see us comfortably in mid table and pushing for a top 10 place next season - with young players confidence is vital and winning breeds confidence.
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Anybody know what the little genius has spent since he's been at Sunderland?
Net: 18,350,000
He spent HOW MUCH on a net!?
It was a British net though.
It won't be cast far and wide though.
A British net purhcased at one minute to midnight just as the shop was closing.
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His decision making has been better lately. He's made some complete clangers this season at times. Tactically, substitutions and the jan window.
It's absolutely vital he learns from his mistakes going into next season. I hope he's identified the need for a couple of more experienced heads in there too. The defence most definitely needs sorting. Not just personnel but the coaching and tactics too.
But there's definitely plenty of promise. I've always like his sales pitch and what he wants to achieve. If we finish strongly, it'll look good going into next season. We have to see an upturn over what we did last season. That's for sure. In our passing play we have. Results, let's hope so by the end of the season. If we cross 40 points, you could just about class the season as a success.
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I voted in before and I'm voting in again now.
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I'd like to see us out do last years 38 points as a subplot to securing premier league status. They may well go hand in hand at this rate.
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He has made a lot of pretty poor decisions, there's no getting away from that, and we are still far from safe from relegation, but I've seen plenty evidence of what he is trying to get us doing.
If only he could sort that defence out, we'd be a more than decent side.
So that's an "in" from me, still.
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He has made a lot of pretty poor decisions, there's no getting away from that, and we are still far from safe from relegation, but I've seen plenty evidence of what he is trying to get us doing.
If only he could sort that defence out, we'd be a more than decent side.
So that's an "in" from me, still.
I felt the same way about the end of the season under Houllier also. That even towards the end under McAllister you could see what they wanted to do, and the style of play they wanted to adopt. Then it all got undone by appointing McLeish. Now, under Lambert it's beginning to feel a lot like that. Get to the end of the season, exhale, start to the dumping process of the players we no longer want and with proper investment address the areas that will allow us to really move forward. The positive signs are there.
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I agree, Toronto. That lack of continuity in going from Houllier to McLeish was a truly pivotal moment.
We just need to make sure we survive, and have at least a hope of holding on to our better players.
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It's weird - ordinarily I'd want any manager that had us genuinely shitting ourselves about possible relegation to be fired without further ado. But I really *want* Lambert to do well for us. Maybe it's the heart ruling the head, but for some reason I'd be very disappointed if he left or was sacked.
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This whole thing about "we go again". As stupid as it sounds and has sounded throughout this season, especially when the wheels had seemingly come off, is almost beginning to make sense now. That he wants to instil a set of beliefs and values, about how he wants us to play and stick together. You can see it now. They haven't given up. The players have stuck together and are playing for each other and the manager. The defence is frustrating but is better than it was, but is still a constituent of quality and a lack of funds to fix it. That will change in the summer. But we go again, as corny as it has been to hear week after week, might be the ticket that has helped us improve performances and results.
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This whole thing about "we go again". As stupid as it sounds and has sounded throughout this season, especially when the wheels had seemingly come off, is almost beginning to make sense now. That he wants to instil a set of beliefs and values, about how he wants us to play and stick together. You can see it now. They haven't given up. The players have stuck together and are playing for each other and the manager. The defence is frustrating but is better than it was, but is still a constituent of quality and a lack of funds to fix it. That will change in the summer. But we go again, as corny as it has been to hear week after week, might be the ticket that has helped us improve performances and results.
i know i'l probably get my head bitten of here, but i didnt even mind his 'i just do' comment about when asked why do you think Villa will stay up
we live in a world of stats and analysis over analysis at times where evreything has to be disected over and over again,
but sometimes you just have a hunch, or a feeling, and coupled with what he knew he was trying to do on the pitch, he just knew we'd stay up, he just did,
i know we want more than that, and maybe we are starting to get a bit more now, but having a deep down belief and stating what you think in a very simple manner is sometimes mistaken for not knowing what your doing or just being plain old naive
seeing him being piggy backed down the touchline yesterday in delirium showed he also cares,
i know he's handsomely paid to care, but lets face it so was O'Leary, but he didnt give shit in the end
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Despite some mental shit this season, I actually feel the club is more united than it has been in some.
A lot of that is down to the manager, from the word go he's been banging on about the support we get.
It might mean fuck all, but it's nice to hear that someone appreciates us.
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It is nice to see a bunch of lads who actually look as if they enjoy playing for our beloved club and Lambert has to take a lot of the credit for that. It has been tough, but I actually think some progress is being made now
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It is nice to see a bunch of lads who actually look as if they enjoy playing for our beloved club and Lambert has to take a lot of the credit for that. It has been tough, but I actually think some progress is being made now
Nice bunch of lads? :o
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Still out. Beating the bottom team at home, welcome as it was, doesn't change that.
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Still out. Beating the bottom team at home, welcome as it was, doesn't change that.
Hopefully we'll need to ask you again after Liverpool.
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two goals conceded at home to the bottom team. I'd like to feel positive, but think we have had a fair bit of luck in the last two games.
I'm still not confident looking at our fixtures.
Like last year, if we survive, it will probably be because another club fucks up better than we do.
Lambert out? If we stay up, I'll give him another season. If not, make Benteke player-manager
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Still out. Beating the bottom team at home, welcome as it was, doesn't change that.
A side who had won their last 2, have much more experience and on paper a very decent first 11 though.
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Still out. Beating the bottom team at home, welcome as it was, doesn't change that.
A side who had won their last 2, have much more experience and on paper a very decent first 11 though.
...and were still bottom of the table.
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Still in. Anyway, with eight games left and two consecutive wins it makes little sense to sack him.
It'll be interesting to see what he does if we stay up, though. Will he change the backroom personell on the basis that they've failed to sort out or defence during the season, or is he happy to be surrounded by his underperforming cronies yet another season?
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He has made a lot of pretty poor decisions, there's no getting away from that, and we are still far from safe from relegation, but I've seen plenty evidence of what he is trying to get us doing.
If only he could sort that defence out, we'd be a more than decent side.
So that's an "in" from me, still.
Ditto.
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You could argue that it was lambert reacting to redknapp's tactical switch that won us the game. We were forced to play quite narrow and we were denied any space out wide. Second-half we played with a lot more attacking width pushing QPR back. Have to give the manager credit for seeing the problem and changing it.
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Still out. Beating the bottom team at home, welcome as it was, doesn't change that.
Yeah, credit to you for sticking by your guns, that's fair enough
But your saviour and emergency manager mr Alardyce is only 3 points better of and still playing is special brand of absolute shit anti football
So although Lamberts not pulled up any trees, in a choice between the two I would vote a million percent for Lambert
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I'm not sure that I ever claimed that Allardyce was anything of the sort John.
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I'm not sure that I ever claimed that Allardyce was anything of the sort John.
No backtracking now, you were arguing long and hard not so long back
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It is nice to see a bunch of lads who actually look as if they enjoy playing for our beloved club and Lambert has to take a lot of the credit for that. It has been tough, but I actually think some progress is being made now
Nice bunch of lads? :o
think you read that a bit wrong
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If he keeps us up I'd give him till Christmas next season. If it's a repeat of this season he should be sacked. If he takes us down this season he should be taken outside and shot, and then sacked.
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saunders_heroes, who would you prefer?
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I'd prefer O'Leary back over Allardyce ;)
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I'm not sure that I ever claimed that Allardyce was anything of the sort John.
You definitely said that you'd rather that he was our manager. Still stick with that?
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No way would I want Allardyce ever.
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I just want to get through this season and reckon we can kick on. Benteke has been a brilliant signing, Westwood superb, Vlaar good for the money, Lowton is good and will get better, Bennett needs to learn but will be ok IMHO. Sylla shows potential, imagine if we had a bit more money to give him. Even bringing Guzan back, brilliant decision and was big enough to give him a go.
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Lambert in, no doubt whatsoever. He was the man last June and he will turn us around. I'm a believer.
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I just want to get through this season and reckon we can kick on. Benteke has been a brilliant signing, Westwood superb, Vlaar good for the money, Lowton is good and will get better, Bennett needs to learn but will be ok IMHO. Sylla shows potential, imagine if we had a bit more money to give him. Even bringing Guzan back, brilliant decision and was big enough to give him a go.
On top of that he's got the crowd behind the team and he's fucked off those that didn't care.
I think he's going to be our best manager for a long time.
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Lambert in, no doubt whatsoever. He was the man last June and he will turn us around. I'm a believer.
Good man Des.
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saunders_heroes, who would you prefer?
No idea, but I'm not paid to head hunt managers. Perhaps we should ask the man responsible for employing Laudrup at Swansea for a few tips. Just because fans on here can't see further than the likes of Allardyce doesn't mean there's no one else out there that could do a job.
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saunders_heroes, who would you prefer?
No idea, but I'm not paid to head hunt managers. Perhaps we should ask the man responsible for employing Laudrup at Swansea for a few tips. Just because fans on here can't see further than the likes of Allardyce doesn't mean there's no one else out there that could do a job.
There's no need though, because the one we've got will be fine.
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saunders_heroes, who would you prefer?
No idea, but I'm not paid to head hunt managers. Perhaps we should ask the man responsible for employing Laudrup at Swansea for a few tips. Just because fans on here can't see further than the likes of Allardyce doesn't mean there's no one else out there that could do a job.
There's no need though, because the one we've got will be fine.
Well I hope you're right.
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saunders_heroes, who would you prefer?
No idea, but I'm not paid to head hunt managers. Perhaps we should ask the man responsible for employing Laudrup at Swansea for a few tips. Just because fans on here can't see further than the likes of Allardyce doesn't mean there's no one else out there that could do a job.
There's no need though, because the one we've got will be fine.
Well I hope you're right.
Deep down you know I am brother ;)
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Still an IN for me but i admit it became a margin call after Wigan and Newcastle.
Now I think we are beginning to see what life could be like under Lambert in the long term. His signings have settled in and if we could ship out the older deadwood, give PL the money to re-invest and keep these players together then i think the futures looking good on the pitch. It's not like when we had TSM where I felt that unless we got rid it'd just be more of the same next season, under PL i can see a plan, see a team developing, see a structure, see improvement.
Still got to stay up though which is still a massive task imo. Every game just feels bigger than the last. I'm feeling quietly confident though for the first time in a long time.
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saunders_heroes, who would you prefer?
No idea, but I'm not paid to head hunt managers. Perhaps we should ask the man responsible for employing Laudrup at Swansea for a few tips. Just because fans on here can't see further than the likes of Allardyce doesn't mean there's no one else out there that could do a job.
Is that the same Laudrup that the Swansea fans wanted out after a few weeks ?
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I'm not sure that I ever claimed that Allardyce was anything of the sort John.
You definitely said that you'd rather that he was our manager. Still stick with that?
If I had to choose yes. We'll still be bottom three if Wigan win their game in hand.
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Well yes but West Ham are only 3 points in front of us now, we're on the up and they're on the decline.
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Well yes but West Ham are only 3 points in front of us now, we're on the up and they're on the decline.
We've just played the bottom two teams, one of whom could have been 4-0 up at half time!
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Well yes but West Ham are only 3 points in front of us now, we're on the up and they're on the decline.
We've just played the bottom two teams, one of whom could have been 4-0 up at half time!
Well Reading beat West Ham and QPR managed to get a draw against them so Lambert is clearly better (winky emoticon)
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Well yes but West Ham are only 3 points in front of us now, we're on the up and they're on the decline.
We've just played the bottom two teams, one of whom could have been 4-0 up at half time!
But were not, and we won
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Yeah possibly, but at the same time we could have been 4-1 up against QPR in the second half. Bottom line is we won two massively high pressure games and are on the up.
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I just want to get through this season and reckon we can kick on. Benteke has been a brilliant signing, Westwood superb, Vlaar good for the money, Lowton is good and will get better, Bennett needs to learn but will be ok IMHO. Sylla shows potential, imagine if we had a bit more money to give him. Even bringing Guzan back, brilliant decision and was big enough to give him a go.
On top of that he's got the crowd behind the team and he's fucked off those that didn't care.
I think he's going to be our best manager for a long time.
I agree with you Lee B
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And long may it continue.
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And had Zamora been given offside, or Samba had a free kick given for having both arms on Benteke as he jumped for the header, they could not have been. Indeed had the ref been our Friend and not theirs it could have been much more comfortable. Ditto vs Southampton for the frankly scandalous penalty and the Wigan one today giving them everything we might be 3-4 points clear now. As such, none of that has gone our way, so Guzan doing what he is there for, saving the ball, I don't see as lucky - I see it as the importance of having a good keeper. We have an influence on that and it worked on Sat. Said it for a while now, but Lambert is the unluckiest manager I can remember. Even the games we win have moments of terrible luck in them.
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The worry is that the last time we were winning plaudits we went on a horrible run. Our season has been up and down, mostly down, so this season has told us there's a bad run around the corner. Its if we can get enough points before then.
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I agree Peter, although the runs have often been caused by a very decent team giving us a pasting. Hopefully United will be in the beach when we play them, and Gerard will be buggered playing for England so unable to be world beating at VP. Suarez can get injured for Uruguay too would be nice. I do think we can get at Liverpool at the back, Agger and Skrtl are both just thugs with very limited ability. Johnson has a mistake in him or two. That Coutinho could hurt us though.
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Ditto vs Southampton for the frankly scandalous penalty and the Wigan one today giving them everything we might be 3-4 points clear now.
We are three points clear now.
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Well yes but West Ham are only 3 points in front of us now, we're on the up and they're on the decline.
We've just played the bottom two teams, one of whom could have been 4-0 up at half time!
But were not, and we won
Exactly, I can think of loads of occasions where we didn't get anything like the reward we deserved from matches this season, so if we lived a bit dangerously against QPR, then big fucking deal, we were due a bit of luck at some point.
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And as has been said on another thread, I saw no luck yesterday.
I saw a great goalkeeper doing what he is supposed to do and good strikers doing what they are supposed to do. What's lucky about that?
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And as has been said on another thread, I saw no luck yesterday.
I saw a great goalkeeper doing what he is supposed to do and good strikers doing what they are supposed to do. What's lucky about that?
Well, I agree, just for those implying we were in some way lucky not to have conceded six hundred goals against Reading / QPR / whoever.
We've won two matches back to back for the first time in almost two years, but some people always have to look for the "but...".
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People can say 'it was only QPR' if they want but it was a QPR that had won 2 games back-to-back. Unlike a mid-table team they are desperate and threw absolutely everything at us in their desperation.
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Have to say the support for the team has been brilliant, think most know Lambert is doing a decent job in difficult circumstances
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Well yes but West Ham are only 3 points in front of us now, we're on the up and they're on the decline.
We've just played the bottom two teams, one of whom could have been 4-0 up at half time!
We've just taken more points in the last 5 games than you were saying a month ago that we'd get for the remainder of the season. You can be wrong you know, just like you were about Benteke ;)
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People can say 'it was only QPR' if they want but it was a QPR that had won 2 games back-to-back. Unlike a mid-table team they are desperate and threw absolutely everything at us in their desperation.
We've won two hard relegation 6 pointers after going behind. There is nothing "only" about that to me.
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Despite some mental shit this season, I actually feel the club is more united than it has been in some.
A lot of that is down to the manager, from the word go he's been banging on about the support we get.
It might mean fuck all, but it's nice to hear that someone appreciates us.
Yes, yes it is.
I am not as sold on him as others appear to be, there would be so much I would need to gloss over and forget from this season for that to happen.
But he hasn't gone down the route of taking pot shots at the fans, as per O'Leary. Even McLeish was coming out with pish like 'Just because Aston Villa won a European Cup in 1982 doesn't give them a divine right to finish in the top 10' towards the end.
Exactly, I can think of loads of occasions where we didn't get anything like the reward we deserved from matches this season, so if we lived a bit dangerously against QPR, then big fucking deal, we were due a bit of luck at some point.
The win was absolutely crucial, it was achieved.
Yesterday, a decent performance but a loss wouldn't really have cut it.
Also of importance was the way we have bounced back from a goal down - in two games in a row now. Yes, it might have been against the two worst teams in the division. But this team is learning on the job, and they now know that mentally -as a group- they can do it, and what it feels like. Whereas before, we might have a bright period of play then a goal would go in against us and that would be that.
As we've seen, shipping late goals and losing a few games on the bounce can be a habit. Hopefully we're picking up some more positive habits.
As for luck, QPR seemed to have the more clear cut chances first half, but we bossed the second. The overall shots on targets from both sides was similar, and we had something like a 60/40 split of possession. If Jugface feels a sense of injustice (ha!) and his sycophant friends in the media buy into that, then fuck 'em.
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People can say 'it was only QPR' if they want but it was a QPR that had won 2 games back-to-back. Unlike a mid-table team they are desperate and threw absolutely everything at us in their desperation.
And not only that, we had to show the strength of character to come back from a goal behind, just like we did last week.
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In the heat of the moment, it was a brilliant comeback, a great win, against a team managed by everyones favourite rentaquote. In the cold light of day, Aston Villa are now at the stage of their existance where their manager is telling a ballboy to hold onto the ball in injury time so we can hold on to a 3-2 win at home against the leagues bottom team, QPR, fighting for our lives to stay in the top division, with players none of us knew anything about before the start of the season, in an era where there is more money sloshing about than there ever has been.
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In the heat of the moment, it was a brilliant comeback, a great win, against a team managed by everyones favourite rentaquote. In the cold light of day, Aston Villa are now at the stage of their existance where their manager is telling a ballboy to hold onto the ball in injury time so we can hold on to a 3-2 win at home against the leagues bottom team, QPR, fighting for our lives to stay in the top division, with players none of us knew anything about before the start of the season, in an era where there is more money sloshing about than there ever has been.
And your point is?
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My point is we have declined a long way. A simple point really, but realistic, there are lots of fans out there who are still in denial of this fact. Not saying I blame the current manager, it's obviously to do with the reckless spending of the early years.
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We should not underestimate the importance of the next 8 games. The Championship is filled with blue chip clubs who haven't managed to make it back and some are on the verge of extinction. See Derby, Forest, Leeds, Wolves, Cov (just about), Middlesborough, Sheffield Wednesday and United.
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My point is we have declined a long way. A simple point really, but realistic, there are lots of fans out there who are still in denial of this fact. Not saying I blame the current manager, it's obviously to do with the reckless spending of the early years.
We're not doing well at the moment. It's happened before and it'll happen again. We have no divine right to success, there's no law that says where we are now is where we'll be forever, and just because some of us don't spend every minute in lamentation doesn't mean there's any 'denial' of anything.
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People can say 'it was only QPR' if they want but it was a QPR that had won 2 games back-to-back. Unlike a mid-table team they are desperate and threw absolutely everything at us in their desperation.
And not only that, we had to show the strength of character to come back from a goal behind, just like we did last week.
And not only that, the QPR team that played on Saturday was pretty decent, and if they had that side all season and played with the same intensity, they would not be in the trouble they find themselves in now.
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And here was me thinking everything was fine and and we were top of the league.
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My point is we have declined a long way. A simple point really, but realistic, there are lots of fans out there who are still in denial of this fact. Not saying I blame the current manager, it's obviously to do with the reckless spending of the early years.
Holding onto the ball, wasting time, fighting for our lives, showing a distinct lack of sportsmanship. Sounds all very Alex Ferguson doesn't it? I hope that when we are top of the league, having just battered Barcelona, we are doing exactly the same thing.
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My point is we have declined a long way. A simple point really, but realistic, there are lots of fans out there who are still in denial of this fact. Not saying I blame the current manager, it's obviously to do with the reckless spending of the early years.
Holding onto the ball, wasting time, fighting for our lives, showing a distinct lack of sportsmanship. Sounds all very Alex Ferguson doesn't it? I hope that when we are top of the league, having just battered Barcelona, we are doing exactly the same thing.
Brad kept gesturing to the ball boys behind the goal to slow down getting the ball back to him once we were 3-2 up. It's the little things like that and what you mention that help win tight games.
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Exactly. We've been too nice for too long. Everything about Villa Park is set up to make life easy for the opposition.
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Exactly. We've been too nice for too long. Everything about Villa Park is set up to make life easy for the opposition.
[/quote
I agree with this and liked the suggestion a while back of moving the tunnel to the Holte end so away teams encounter us first rather than their own fans although I assume it's not feasible
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I don't really understand people moaning about the ball boy situation? I've always been under the impression that teams instruct their ball boys beforehand on whether the team wants to play high tempo or slow the game down at every opportunity. We were in front and our ball boy policy clearly needed a change. Where is the problem? It's part and parcel of the game.
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I don't think anyone's in denial that an awful lot needs to be done for us to recover. However critical to this is surviving this season and I don't care how we do it.
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I agree totally with Toronto Villa, PeterWithesShin and Dave Woodhall. It has driven me up the wall how nice and nieve we have been for quite a while. Not accusations you would level at United or Chelsea and don't even get me started on Stoke. Of course if Saturday's game had been at Loftus Road and QPR were 3-2 up the old pros like Redknapp, Jordan and Bond on their bench would have been totally against any timewasting or perceived lack of sportsmanship from their players, ball boys or staff.
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In the heat of the moment, it was a brilliant comeback, a great win, against a team managed by everyones favourite rentaquote. In the cold light of day, Aston Villa are now at the stage of their existance where their manager is telling a ballboy to hold onto the ball in injury time so we can hold on to a 3-2 win at home against the leagues bottom team, QPR, fighting for our lives to stay in the top division, with players none of us knew anything about before the start of the season, in an era where there is more money sloshing about than there ever has been.
But you're saying that as if people haven't spotted the horrendous season we're having. Everyone knows we've been buying players from a lower level (largely) this season, everyone knows we're in a survival scrap, and everyone knows we've been tightening up the finances - and most people even agree it is being done too quickly. I can't believe anyone can be a regular use of this site - like yourself - and think to the contrary.
All teams engage in a little gamesmanship from time to time, so why shouldn't we, when we are really fighting?
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Lambert has done well to get the forwards firing but I'll find it difficult to forgive him his January inaction if we still end up getting relegated. We are still letting the opposition have far too many chances.
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There seems a lot of confidence around. We still might go down.
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Lambert has done well to get the forwards firing but I'll find it difficult to forgive him his January inaction if we still end up getting relegated. We are still letting the opposition have far too many chances.
Thats the crux for me, go down and he goes, stay up and he stays. Both outcomes will be purely down to him.
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Lambert has done well to get the forwards firing but I'll find it difficult to forgive him his January inaction if we still end up getting relegated. We are still letting the opposition have far too many chances.
Thats the crux for me, go down and he goes, stay up and he stays. Both outcomes will be purely down to him.
To be a little pedantic it will be down to Randy and I think he'll stick with him. That said, I'm feeling pretty confident that we have it in us to stay in the division.
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Hasn't he already been assured his job is safe regardless?
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Lambert has done well to get the forwards firing but I'll find it difficult to forgive him his January inaction if we still end up getting relegated. We are still letting the opposition have far too many chances.
I still don't get his insistance of taking off a midfielder and thowing on an extra attacker in games. He did it again on Saturday and it might have cost us. Against better opposition we may well pay for it.
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Legion, do you ever read the sport supplement in the obsever, each week there is at least one example of a chairman "guaranteeing" his manager a job regardless, followed by a sacking a week later. I think its good the vocal backing is there, but I dont think Lamberts stupid, he knows he has to produce results and perfomances
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Lambert has done well to get the forwards firing but I'll find it difficult to forgive him his January inaction if we still end up getting relegated. We are still letting the opposition have far too many chances.
I still don't get his insistance of taking off a midfielder and thowing on an extra attacker in games. He did it again on Saturday and it might have cost us. Against better opposition we may well pay for it.
Did he? He brought on Zog for Sylla with the scores at 1-1 which is a logical move in a game we needed to win, and Weimann for Bowery with about 5 mins to go which is a fairly like for like swap. And he could have told Bowery to be more defense minded than Andi would have been.
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Hasn't he already been assured his job is safe regardless?
I hope not.
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I think people regard N'Zog as an attacker rather than a midfielder, whilst Sylla is a genuine midfielder not attacker.
Must admit I did wonder about the substitution but then who else was there who could be put on? Also I was hoping that N'Zog would take a grip of the game and run at them through midfield as they were chasing the game at that time. I am afraid he disappointed me a little.
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A combination of the Chelsea result, the home league defeats and Bradford would have done enough to sack him in my opinion.
If we stay up or go down I think the whole situation will have to be looked at in the Summer.
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I think people regard N'Zog as an attacker rather than a midfielder, whilst Sylla is a genuine midfielder not attacker.
Must admit I did wonder about the substitution but then who else was there who could be put on? Also I was hoping that N'Zog would take a grip of the game and run at them through midfield as they were chasing the game at that time. I am afraid he disappointed me a little.
Which is what you do when you want the win. Take off a defensive mf and put on an attacking one. The sub made sense to me at the time.
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Lambert has done well to get the forwards firing but I'll find it difficult to forgive him his January inaction if we still end up getting relegated. We are still letting the opposition have far too many chances.
I still don't get his insistance of taking off a midfielder and thowing on an extra attacker in games. He did it again on Saturday and it might have cost us. Against better opposition we may well pay for it.
Something needed to change in the midfield, it was all nice and pretty but no-one was carrying the ball forward, Sylla can count himself unfortunate to be replaced but N'Zogbia was precisely what was needed at that point. Weimann was knackered and I imagine that PL had one eye on Bowery's height when choosing his replacement.
As much as I enjoyed Saturday I think it would have been so much easier on the nerves with a few more experienced heads in the defense or on the bench, and that is all down to Lambert.
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Lambert has done well to get the forwards firing but I'll find it difficult to forgive him his January inaction if we still end up getting relegated. We are still letting the opposition have far too many chances.
I still don't get his insistance of taking off a midfielder and thowing on an extra attacker in games. He did it again on Saturday and it might have cost us. Against better opposition we may well pay for it.
Something needed to change in the midfield, it was all nice and pretty but no-one was carrying the ball forward, Sylla can count himself unfortunate to be replaced but N'Zogbia was precisely what was needed at that point. Weimann was knackered and I imagine that PL had one eye on Bowery's height when choosing his replacement.
As much as I enjoyed Saturday I think it would have been so much easier on the nerves with a few more experienced heads in the defense or on the bench, and that is all down to Lambert.
It's also down to injuries, form and money.
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I disagree, he has taken an almighty gamble with the future of the club in not bringing in defenders, even on cheap loans, in January.
Dunne hasn't been available all year and Baker seems to be in a perpetual audition for a part in Casualty, even more of a reason to get more bodies in January. If we go down and he gets the bullet he'll have no-one to blame but himself as his forwards are amongst the best group around.
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I thought the subs were good to be fair, Bowery worked hard and did what he needed to. Nzog pulled their defence around and created gaps, watch how painful they were at defending us with the extra movement on Nzog, if you need any proof, look at the veins on Hills neck for the last quarter as he berated his back line. Bennett was the right choice as well earlier. A mistake early on meant he was on a "loser" for most of the game, but an assist for our second, and much improved tracking from him was nice to see. I was worried about Bannan, still dont rate him that highly, and he was culpable again for losing the ball in good positions, and he still floats in corners (=wasted), but a much improved performance by him. Interested to see if he gets the nod next time, id go with Delph and stick with Sylla.
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I actually think Bennett will be alright, yes he made a mistake but he came back really well. He does have some talent.
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By James Nursey | 28/03/13
Aston Villa's home win over QPR last time out was the first time in over two years the club had won successive Premier League games.
A victory on Sunday at Villa Park against Liverpool will make it three in a row which would be undeniable progress.
And of course it would be another significant step for Villa on the path to survival.
It would also complete a double for boss Lambert over opposite number Brendan Rodgers this season after Villa's fine 3-1 win at Anfield in December.
And Villa fans can rest assured the Scot will have his side fully fired up for Sunday's game.
For while Lambert has never admitted it publicly, I believe it does rankle how many plaudits Rodgers got last summer ahead of him.
The quotable, media-friendly Rodgers became something of a press darling last season after guiding promoted Swansea to 11th in the Premier League playing decent passing football.
But the column inches and favourable press for Rodgers were arguably out of proportion to his achievements as he inherited a decent side in July 2010 , the foundations of which had been carefully laid previously by Roberto Martinez from 2007-2009.
Lambert, in comparison, guided fellow promoted club Norwich to 12th in the top-flight, level on points with Swansea - and they did the double over them, playing some attractive stuff in the process.
But more importantly in my view, Lambert took over a complete shambles in League One in August 2009 and totally overhauled the Canaries with successive promotions.
No-one can convince me otherwise that Lambert's whole body of work at Norwich was not far more impressive than Rodgers' achievements in Wales.
Yet last summer Rodgers was hotly tipped for Tottenham and Liverpool before getting the Anfield gig.
And Lambert's name was barely mentioned for both jobs.
Lambert, from what I heard, supposedly felt he had just as good credentials as Rodgers for those positions and clearly would have been up for either job as he was desperate to quit Norwich.
In the end last summer, Lambert was delighted to take charge at Villa Park and genuinely appears to be enjoying his reign at the club despite the adversity of battling the drop.
I am not saying there is any personal animosity between Lambert or Rodgers - I am not aware of that.
But I do reckon achieving a double over Liverpool would be both sweet and vital for Lambert for several reasons.
Villa go into the game in decent form as recent improved displays have done much to convince fans that Lambert's side are making real progress.
I maintain the Scot is doing a decent job in very difficult circumstances as owner Randy Lerner continues to completely rebuild the first team squad on a new, cheaper, more self-sufficient, financial model.
Keeping in-form striker Christian Benteke will be central to those long-term plans and from what I gather, Lambert is privately hopeful.
The determining factor will actually not be how badly Villa or Lambert want him though.
But whether Benteke himself is happy to stay or whether he will kick up a fuss, hand in a transfer request and demand to go as he did at Genk last summer.
The signs are ominous as his rent-a-quote agent seems to be busy drumming up as much interest as possible!
And it is virtually impossible to keep stars if they really want to go as Villa found out with Stewart Downing in August 2011.
Publicly Lambert is very supportive of his players and is yet to criticise any of them in public - to the best of my knowledge.
But fans maybe interested to know that privately he does dish it out in expletive-strewn rants.
I gather young Joe Bennett, 22, copped it big-time at the interval against QPR following his slack pass for Rangers' opener.
Apparently Lambert really tore into the left-back and let him know he would not be playing for the first team again if he repeated the mistake!
It certainly worked the trick as both Villa and Bennett were remarkably improved in the second half and went on to win the game.
And Lambert will not be short of dressing room material this weekend ahead of his return clash with Rodgers' Liverpool side.
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Hmmm there's another Scottish manager whose players can do no wrong when he is discussing them in public but is believed to use the "hair dryer" in private!
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Having seen him lose it with the press once at Norwich I would not like to get on the wrong side of him- seems to have that ruthless streak which is a good thing in a manager - definately no soft touch.
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Thanks Eastie, I enjoyed reading that.
There is something about Lambert I really like and want him to succeed, and not only just because he is our manager. At times this season which has been up and down with a missive down in the middle I have felt he has lost the plot and the run out of ideas. But the way we have got it together after the run we have had deserves some credit. That run we had was so shocking it never looked likely we would get a result again. It's far from over but we do seem to have belief back.
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Remind me why we're sticking with this manager again Randy,Is it for his motivational skills ??
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STILL, we're messing up defensively. This is Lambert's biggest weakest this season - the inability to improve, drop or replace the culprits
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STILL, we're messing up defensively. This is Lambert's biggest weakest this season - the inability to improve, drop or replace the culprits
Drop them for who though? The defender we didn't buy in January
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STILL, we're messing up defensively. This is Lambert's biggest weakest this season - the inability to improve, drop or replace the culprits
Drop them for who though? The defender we didn't buy in January
yep. Been said so many times but it was a major cock-up.
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It's past the point of no return this season. Sacking him would be foolish. There's little a new manager could really do in such short time. There's always that small chance of a new manager surge (which worries me with Sunderland), but there's no time to change anything really and the raw materials at this club are sorely lacking in defence and midfield.
For me, I just don't see things being any different next season if Lambert is still in charge and we've survived. If we just about stay up, I'd off him to be honest. I think he'd do okay with us in the Champ and we'd probably come back up, but I don't rate him as a top flight manager. There's not enough about him.
We're a premier league side. Bare minimum for this club should be mid-table. I don't think Lambert can achieve that. Certainly not on the budget he's working under.
Out- End of May.
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It's past the point of no return this season.
Agreed, and he has the credentials to get us promoted if we do go down.
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Should have been sacked after Bradford but as you say too late now.
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Remind me why we're sticking with this manager again Randy,Is it for his motivational skills ??
He is the best manager for us at the moment. I will see where QPR with Mr Motivator and Reading and Sunderland will end up this season.
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Should have been sacked ages ago. He really is utterly hopeless, and not strengthening the defence in January should have been a sackable offence, on top of all the other shitness he's served up this season.
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I haven't been in this thread for a while as we've been playing well and actually winning a few games.
However a major problem still exists, we still only played well for one half of football.
Think about it, even the games we've won, West Ham 1st half poor, second half two goals. Reading we did well to come back 1st half but then spent the second half hanging on. QPR we should've been a couple of goals down but got away with it and improved.
Going back to January, fantastic in the first half at WBA and then collapsed and then a weak later there was a QPR type game against Newcastle.
Today we actually had a quick start at home for once and should've been more than 1 up but all that thrown away by an awful opening 15 minutes.
It's not a case for me as with most inconsistant teams of playing well one week and toss the next (Liverpool), it's more a case for me that for most of this season we've swung from one extreme to the next in two halves of football.
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I think we've actually been like this for years. Even under O Neill, it was very rare we sustained a good performance over 90 minutes.
That said we had enough talent to nick games when we were actually quite poor. We don't have that now, besides Benteke who makes things happen by himself.
But yeah, the polar opposites between one half and the other this season has been shocking.
If matches ended on 45 minutes we'd actually be a top 6 side. Again it boils down to tactical naivity and players who aren't good enough or experienced enough to hold out for a full game. O Neill actually got by thanks to having the talent he had at his disposal. And though he signed a lot of experienced players who weren't particularly great, sometimes their experienced actually helped pull us through. Sidwell is often pointed out as one of our monumental wastes of money but O Neill had his best run of results when Sidwell was in the side and we were playing a 4-5-1/4-3-3. Zat Knight as well. On the whole, not exactly money wisely spent but in fairness to him he had a few outstanding games and help us scrape some points here and there.
I'd even take Curtis Davies over Baker and Clark at the moment.
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While I would not want to get rid of Lambert at this time I sure as hell hope we are looking for a successor a couple of years down the line because I have little that tells me this is a guy that will take us places. He is an improvement over TSM - that is not a hard act to follow.
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I've been sticking with Lambert the whole season, allthough I was wavering after the cup fiascos and the Christimas horror. But now is not the right time to change: we have made some improvement, and a new guy won't have time to improve our chances of survival nevertheless.
If we are relegated, he should be sacked. If we stay up, I would like him to stay but also to make a serious attempt at building a decent defence. A serious attempt would mean changes both in the playing and coaching staff.
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I agree with what you say Eigentor. If we had to give him the push we should have done so before the January window. In other words, the time that I was fulsome in my belief that we should stand by him...
Lately we've been looking a lot better than we were during December and January anyway.
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Get a fecking grip, have to say no Bent on the bench pissed me off though, but he seems to be the only player who is not up for the fight
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Should have gone after the awful set of results around Christmas - He has been an unmitigated disaster for me - the cups results were the final nail in the coffin. Wow we have beaten Reading and QPR - but just look at the results against Southampton, Wigan and Newcastle.
The buffoon is taking us down without a whimper from the Villa faithful. The club appears to be in freefall... the hardest thing to take is the likes of Wigan, Bolton,Blackpool and Burnley fans at work feeling sorry for me :)
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Should have gone after the awful set of results around Christmas - He has been an unmitigated disaster for me - the cups results were the final nail in the coffin. Wow we have beaten Reading and QPR - but just look at the results against Southampton, Wigan and Newcastle.
The buffoon is taking us down without a whimper from the Villa faithful. The club appears to be in freefall... the hardest thing to take is the likes of Wigan, Bolton,Blackpool and Burnley fans at work feeling sorry for me :)
Hard to disagree - although there have been some bright signs in recent weeks it has been a catastrophic season
So many times he seems to be out thought by opposition managers change of tactics.
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But he is not taking us down without a whimper?
Wow he beat the sides we need to beat. Great isn't it? I look forward to smacking Stoke, Sunderland, Fulham and Norwich who fit into that bracket too.
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It's been a bad season. But this is exactly where we heading at the back end of last season remember.
I'm utterly enfuriated by the failure to get better defenders in. That's the massive mistake made. But I genuinely think we're improving. We have an identity. We're actually passing the bloody thing. And we look a real threat in attack.
I think I'd keep him even if we go down. He's made mistakes, but when was the last time we had a manager who didn't make some really big mistakes?
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But he is not taking us down without a whimper?
Wow he beat the sides we need to beat. Great isn't it? I look forward to smacking Stoke, Sunderland, Fulham and Norwich who fit into that bracket too.
Are you trying to convince us or yourself ads ? Keep saying it often enough and you might believe it ;)
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I am already convinced.
This side is never going to grind its way to safety like Norwich or us last term; its going to score its way. Its been a very poor season and the minute the safety feeling has washed away I will be left feeling angry and annoyed that yet again we have been in this mess.
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But he is not taking us down without a whimper?
Wow he beat the sides we need to beat. Great isn't it? I look forward to smacking Stoke, Sunderland, Fulham and Norwich who fit into that bracket too.
Read what I said Ads - "without a whimper from the Villa faithful" which is slightly different is it not from "taking us down without a whimper"?
Please remind me- just who we have smacked this season? We have recently beaten teams below us however we are not so good beating those above us - when you are 18th in the league that tends to suggest you will get relegated or am I missing something?
Home to Southampton, Newcastle and Wigan ....by how many did we smack them?
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There has been a change in the way the side looks going forwards since half time against Newcastle. Since then only Tevez has stopped us from scoring against the meanest defence in the league.
We have won three out of the last seven against the sides that we really had to beat and I think we are more than capable of outscoring Stoke and Fulham in the next two.
Stoke have failed to score in 17 of their last 30 games, they have one as many games as us in the past twelve months. Going to a side on the slide, who are incapable of putting a side under sustained pressure is the sort of place I would like to be going to hunt down three points.
We have shown we can handle the pressure against Weat Ham, Reading and QPR. Our generosity extended in those games too, but our firepower was too much and it will be again. If the players would like to take responsibility at any point then great, as I am up for winning games where the excitement and nervous intestine twisting feeling isn't present.
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we have failed to beat Stoke in the last six games we've played against them and despite them being as out of form as we are, i can't see us winning there, much as i would like us to.
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Stoke are much more out of form than we are
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Stoke are much more out of form than we are
Stoke will know beat us and they are virtually safe , if we win we can drag them into it - I think this game is very much winnable for us .
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I'm not sure what Lambert did wrong yesterday?
There were, again, a couple of defensive lapses that cost us dear and indeed a couple up front too.
We'll stay up.
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I'm not sure what Lambert did wrong yesterday?
There were, again, a couple of defensive lapses that cost us dear and indeed a couple up front too.
We'll stay up.
I'm a Lambert supporter, but every time one of our CB's fuck up and we concede another needless goal Lambert must take some of the blame for not buying that desperately needed CB in January.
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we have failed to beat Stoke in the last six games we've played against them and despite them being as out of form as we are, i can't see us winning there, much as i would like us to.
So we're due a win against them. ;)
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we have failed to beat Stoke in the last six games we've played against them and despite them being as out of form as we are, i can't see us winning there, much as i would like us to.
So we're due a win against them. ;)
Indeed, I cant remember the last time we thrashed someone either, Stoke will do nicely.
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I'm not sure what Lambert did wrong yesterday?
There were, again, a couple of defensive lapses that cost us dear and indeed a couple up front too.
We'll stay up.
I'm a Lambert supporter, but every time one of our CB's fuck up and we concede another needless goal Lambert must take some of the blame for not buying that desperately needed CB in January.
I agree that we could done with another centre-back, but if he had heeded the advice offered here and spent £12m on Samba, we could still have been looking at a couple of mistakes per match - which seems to be what he is offering QPR at the moment.
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I don't think many people on here suggested buying Samba to be honest. I remember it being used as a rather poor argument in support of Lambert if anything, in that it was either Samba on £100K a week, or nothing.
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QPR after Chris Samba £10mil
If he helps keep them up, that will be cheap. Exactly the sort of player we could do with right now.
*whistles and walks away slowly*
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I'm not sure what Lambert did wrong yesterday?
There were, again, a couple of defensive lapses that cost us dear and indeed a couple up front too.
We'll stay up.
He should have brought Delph on at half time or at the very latest after Liverpool equalised to shore-up the gap between defence and midfield as Westwood and Bannan were struggling big time. We were on the back-foot for the end of the first half, by the time of the equaliser it should have been clear to Lambert that a change needed to be made - Delph or El Ahmadi for Bananaman.
You're right though about staying up.
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QPR after Chris Samba £10mil
If he helps keep them up, that will be cheap. Exactly the sort of player we could do with right now.
*whistles and walks away slowly*
Players need to take some responsibility. You cannot blame Lambert for Baker's tackle (I am not saying you are by the way).
I am not sure what had got into his head before he lunged in, but he will know that you don't make tackles like that inside the box at any level.
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QPR after Chris Samba £10mil
If he helps keep them up, that will be cheap. Exactly the sort of player we could do with right now.
*whistles and walks away slowly*
Players need to take some responsibility. You cannot blame Lambert for Baker's tackle (I am not saying you are by the way).
I am not sure what had got into his head before he lunged in, but he will know that you don't make tackles like that inside the box at any level.
More infuriatingly, he'd done in the first half a couple of times and got away with it (courtesy of new man Suarez who no longer seems to fall over).
Both Baker and Bannan need to stay on their feet in the tackle and I don't understand why Culverhouse ain't coaching them to tackle morte sensibly.
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You could blame Lambert if he said 'go in hard on Suarez'..... (not saying he did, jsut saying)
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QPR after Chris Samba £10mil
If he helps keep them up, that will be cheap. Exactly the sort of player we could do with right now.
*whistles and walks away slowly*
I am not sure what had got into his head before he lunged in, but he will know that you don't make tackles like that inside the box at any level.
He is a liability in his own penalty area and seems to be a penalty / own goal waiting to happen.
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On Sunday we were the better side the first half, then shot ourselves in the foot. After that, we didn't have the leaders on the pitch, or subs on the bench, to give us a lift and really have ago at them again. For all our poor defending in that opening part of the 2nd half, we scored a goal, missed two sitters, had one cleared off the line and gifted them a penalty. We easily deserved the draw and could have won it.
On balance, I do think Lambert made a mistake in taking Weimann off. N'Zogbia did nothing and Weimann is always likely to score of create a goal. Tactically, what he could have done was brought him on for Bannan and reverted to that front 4 formation and really had a go at them.
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On balance, I do think Lambert made a mistake in taking Weimann off.
He had no choice CJ, he was injured.
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On balance, I do think Lambert made a mistake in taking Weimann off.
He had no choice CJ, he was injured.
Fair enough then - I didn't know that!
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QPR after Chris Samba £10mil
If he helps keep them up, that will be cheap. Exactly the sort of player we could do with right now.
*whistles and walks away slowly*
A big, strapping defender was/is the sort of player we desperately need. I didn't say we should sign him though. Nice try though.
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Its funny (well sort of), I took my stepdad on Sunday (He is a season ticket holder for 20+ years at Anfield). He said Baker was a tremendous player, and but for the mistake would have been one of his players of the game. He thought Guzan was outstanding, and really liked Westwood and Benteke. He is thoroughly pissed off with everything at Liverpool, mostly how they as "fans" are treated, thinks the manager is a big headed twat, and is considering giving up his season tikcet (already told its going up by at least 7%). He wished they had got Lambert instead.
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Its funny (well sort of), I took my stepdad on Sunday (He is a season ticket holder for 20+ years at Anfield). He said Baker was a tremendous player, and but for the mistake would have been one of his players of the game. He thought Guzan was outstanding, and really liked Westwood and Benteke. He is thoroughly pissed off with everything at Liverpool, mostly how they as "fans" are treated, thinks the manager is a big headed twat, and is considering giving up his season tikcet (already told its going up by at least 7%). He wished they had got Lambert instead.
So do I wish they had got lambert instead :)
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Bakes is good, but he's a bit reckless and seems to have crazy moments, but like Curtis Davies used to for us.
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The difference is he is young and learning. Dunne and Collins had ricks every game. Collins still does!
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Baker did at least two goal-stopping interceptions and I think he made a bigger contribution than Westwood who was the Man of the Match.
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Baker did at least two goal-stopping interceptions and I think he made a bigger contribution than Westwood who was the Man of the Match.
Westwood was man of the match ? Surely benteke was our best player by miles !
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Westwood officially man of the match. And promptly got a high tackle on that dirty scrote Henderson. benteke wasnt our best player by miles, he was alongside Westy and I thought Baker played really well against Freddie Mercury(stupid tackle did for him)
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Baker did at least two goal-stopping interceptions and I think he made a bigger contribution than Westwood who was the Man of the Match.
But he also caused the goal that cost us the game, so he's never going to get man of the match.
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I'd have probably given Baker motm if it was'nt for his error.
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I think it was one of those games where nobody really stood out, despite a good team performance in the first half. Benteke is probably the best candidate on balance, but then he was pretty much starved of the ball for long periods after the break.
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On Sunday we were the better side the first half, then shot ourselves in the foot. After that, we didn't have the leaders on the pitch, or subs on the bench, to give us a lift and really have ago at them again. For all our poor defending in that opening part of the 2nd half, we scored a goal, missed two sitters, had one cleared off the line and gifted them a penalty. We easily deserved the draw and could have won it.
What were the sitters in the second half? Weimann's chance was decent but came at him very quickly, not sure I'd call it a sitter. Liverpool hit the woodwork twice with Suarez and Coutinho regular dangers and could have had a hatful between them. I've been very optimistic about us since the Everton game but on Sunday we were simply beaten by a better side. We scored too early, for the hour afterwards we showed little in the way of sustained pressing and passing high up the pitch that we had prior to Christy's goal.
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On Sunday we were the better side the first half, then shot ourselves in the foot. After that, we didn't have the leaders on the pitch, or subs on the bench, to give us a lift and really have ago at them again. For all our poor defending in that opening part of the 2nd half, we scored a goal, missed two sitters, had one cleared off the line and gifted them a penalty. We easily deserved the draw and could have won it.
What were the sitters in the second half? Weimann's chance was decent but came at him very quickly, not sure I'd call it a sitter. Liverpool hit the woodwork twice with Suarez and Coutinho regular dangers and could have had a hatful between them. I've been very optimistic about us since the Everton game but on Sunday we were simply beaten by a better side. We scored too early, for the hour afterwards we showed little in the way of sustained pressing and passing high up the pitch that we had prior to Christy's goal.
Gabby missed one in the first and I was also talking about that Weimann chance in the 2nd. It might be harsh calling it a 'sitter', but it was a very good chance. Liverpool also had chances, but on the balance I think we had as many clear cut/good chances as they did.
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I thought the performance from benteke was very high standard indeed on Sunday , his movement , his hold up play , heading and goal combined - it really was a top performance from him in my book.
Westwood was neat and tidy as usual but should have tracked Henderson better for their goal, as for baker he was pulled up against a top class striker in Suarez and apart from the penalty he did ok .
In fact of the starting 11 the only one i could really point the finger at is bannan.
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^^^^^^^^
about right
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I have lost confidence in Clark, so would be playing Baker ahead of him right now. As such, the team Sunday was pretty much the starting 11 I'd be picking, but just with Delph in for Bannan. He'd then be given more freedom to get forward and join in with the front three, which I think is his more natural game.
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Liverpool recognised Bannan as a weak link quite early on I think.
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Liverpool recognised Bannan as a weak link quite early on I think.
Start of the 2nd half they visably picked up the pace and pressured us on the ball a lot more. That was the start of their dominant period where they scored the goals, but aside from that I don't think Bannan did all that badly. However, he does seem to have his better games against the weaker opponents, where he can then dictate things. Liverpool are a decent enough PL side that he can't do that against them, which then leaves him with very little else to offer.
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The way i saw it was that Liverpool changed their tactics slightly and seem to catch us on the break at ease in the second half and before we recitfied it we were behind in the game.
Despite Bannan and Sylla being weak on the day, i wonder in hindsight if throwing Delph on in place of Weimann and having 4 across the middle might have been better?
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The way i saw it was that Liverpool changed their tactics slightly and seem to catch us on the break at ease in the second half and before we recitfied it we were behind in the game.
Despite Bannan and Sylla being weak on the day, i wonder in hindsight if throwing Delph on in place of Weimann and having 4 across the middle might have been better?
I thought sylla looked decent enough .
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He was'nt crap but was'nt great either but that's to be expected. He gave the ball away a bit in the first half though. I suppose you might see a different game on the tellybox as to looking down on the pitch.
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Problem is it seems when our younger players make errors they are cataclysmic/or near cataclysmic errors. Bannan put Suarez straight through on goal, Baker cost us the game, Clark has done that too and so has Bennett.
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The way i saw it was that Liverpool changed their tactics slightly and seem to catch us on the break at ease in the second half and before we recitfied it we were behind in the game.
Despite Bannan and Sylla being weak on the day, i wonder in hindsight if throwing Delph on in place of Weimann and having 4 across the middle might have been better?
I thought sylla looked decent enough .
Sylla had a good first half. He pretty much man marked Lucas and stopped him getting the ball off their centre backs. It forced them long and was pivotal in us being on top. Unfortunately, Henderson did the same thing to Westwood for the first 15 mins of the second half and it changed the game.
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Problem is it seems when our younger players make errors they are cataclysmic/or near cataclysmic errors. Bannan put Suarez straight through on goal, Baker cost us the game, Clark has done that too and so has Bennett.
That's true pwa - just thinking i can't recall Guzan really dropping any major clangers this season - his level of consistency has been outstanding.
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bannan dropped another couple of mistakes, the problem is, you really notice it, as he tends to do it when we are set for attack, and all out of position. He is no Westwood for calm thinking.
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There's always someone making a mistake - obviously Baker's mistake on Suarez was kay - however, Gabby's miss in the first half was just as crucial.
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There's always someone making a mistake - obviously Baker's mistake on Suarez was kay - however, Gabby's miss in the first half was just as crucial.
It was not kay.
As plump songstress Lilly Allen once memorably warbled:
It's no' fair
And it's really no' uh kay
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Liverpool recognised Bannan as a weak link quite early on I think.
Start of the 2nd half they visably picked up the pace and pressured us on the ball a lot more. That was the start of their dominant period where they scored the goals, but aside from that I don't think Bannan did all that badly. However, he does seem to have his better games against the weaker opponents, where he can then dictate things. Liverpool are a decent enough PL side that he can't do that against them, which then leaves him with very little else to offer.
Thats why he would be good at Wolves
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Liverpool recognised Bannan as a weak link quite early on I think.
Start of the 2nd half they visably picked up the pace and pressured us on the ball a lot more. That was the start of their dominant period where they scored the goals, but aside from that I don't think Bannan did all that badly. However, he does seem to have his better games against the weaker opponents, where he can then dictate things. Liverpool are a decent enough PL side that he can't do that against them, which then leaves him with very little else to offer.
Thats why he would be good at Wolves
Or Cowdenbeath!
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Paul Lambert insists Villa have the necessary knowhow to survive the relegation battle.
Lambert would have preferred to be higher up the table now in safer waters.
But, in a strange way, he believes the fact Villa have been scrapping in the lower reaches for most of the season will stand them in good stead for the battle ahead.
Lambert insists other teams will now have to "get their heads around" the fact they are in a fight to the finish.
Villa are just four points away from twelfth, with Southampton, Stoke, Newcastle, Norwich, Sunderland and Wigan only just about Lambert's side.
He said: "Every team in the bottom half of the table is in a battle now.
"We are four points off twelfth and for much of the season we have been accustomed to this situation.
"We've been living through it and we've dealt with the pressures it brings.
"Suddenly, there are other teams that have been pulled into it, teams who haven't had to get their heads around it and we'll see now what happens.
"The important thing for us is that we don't get caught up in it all, that we continue to focus on our games, on our jobs and that's what we'll do."
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Start of the 2nd half they visably picked up the pace and pressured us on the ball a lot more. That was the start of their dominant period where they scored the goals, but aside from that I don't think Bannan did all that badly. However, he does seem to have his better games against the weaker opponents, where he can then dictate things. Liverpool are a decent enough PL side that he can't do that against them, which then leaves him with very little else to offer.
The way I saw it, Liverpool did what Montenegro did to England: they pushed up on the fullbacks and pressurised Lowton and Bennett much more in the second half. BB, I suspect, was collateral damage in a much more tenacious approach overall. However, it was two poor defensive lapses that undid us - whether they were a result of oppo pressure or not, they were basic.
Bottom line of all of that is that Lambert was 'turned over' by his opposite number in the half-time / tactics battle; again.
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Indeed, it was supposed to be a strength of his but no sign so far this season.
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There have been time when he's changed things around at half time. Although we still lost, Newcastle at home is a good example. In truth, he shouldn;t have been messing with what was working well at half time on Sunday. Should he have acted quicker once the 2nd half started? Well, some will naturally say yes, but it's quite uncommon to make subs within the first 15 minutes of the of the restart.
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There have been time when he's changed things around at half time. Although we still lost, Newcastle at home is a good example. In truth, he shouldn;t have been messing with what was working well at half time on Sunday. Should he have acted quicker once the 2nd half started? Well, some will naturally say yes, but it's quite uncommon to make subs within the first 15 minutes of the of the restart.
Certainly true to say that the players were still in the dressing room when the underwhelming Henderson scored ...
... but our season has been littered with these types of incidents and it is not unreasonable to expect a management team to have ironed out these transgressions by now.
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Indeed, it was supposed to be a strength of his but no sign so far this season.
I agree.
Rogers changed his formation at half time and Lambert failed to pick up on the change.
Lambert should have given instructions to hold fast for the first 10-15 minutes but instead they played forward too far and got caught.
I do wonder about his tactics
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Indeed, it was supposed to be a strength of his but no sign so far this season.
I agree.
Rogers changed his formation at half time and Lambert failed to pick up on the change.
Lambert should have given instructions to hold fast for the first 10-15 minutes but instead they played forward too far and got caught.
I do wonder about his tactics
Then we'd have seen posts slating him for sitting back and inviting pressure.
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Indeed, it was supposed to be a strength of his but no sign so far this season.
Crickey, Lambert's tactics and halftime team talks are the stuff of nightmares. They really are.
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Indeed, it was supposed to be a strength of his but no sign so far this season.
I agree.
Rogers changed his formation at half time and Lambert failed to pick up on the change.
Lambert should have given instructions to hold fast for the first 10-15 minutes but instead they played forward too far and got caught.
I do wonder about his tactics
Then we'd have seen posts slating him for sitting back and inviting pressure.
Then perhaps he's out of his depth?
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I would still stick by him even if we drop. He needs time to get it right, and firmly believe he would bring us straight back up with ease.
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I would still stick by him even if we drop. He needs time to get it right, and firmly believe he would bring us straight back up with ease.
Not for me - if we drop he has to go and i would hope by his own choice so we don't have pay him off .
If we survive he will no doubt get another shot at things next season.
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And appoint who? He is rebuilding the squad from top to bottom with a strategy that in my view will pay off in the long term. Sure, it will be horrible to go down but I would take the seasons pain to stick with a longer term strategy that again, in my view will see us move forward with a way of playing, purchasing and bringing through players. The short termism does't work unless you have bucket loads, while the idea of being a Stoke type side bobbling about mid table playing shit football with no long term progression bores me to tears. The premier league is dull enough as it is, I can deal with a bit of Championship to stick with a plan. It is not the b all so to speak for me.
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I would still stick by him even if we drop. He needs time to get it right, and firmly believe he would bring us straight back up with ease.
Not for me - if we drop he has to go and i would hope by his own choice so we don't have pay him off .
If we survive he will no doubt get another shot at things next season.
It's naive to think anyone would just leave without being paid what they're entitled to, would you do it? He signed a contract in good faith and the club have to honour it, one way or another.
Not that I think it will come to that.
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I would still stick by him even if we drop. He needs time to get it right, and firmly believe he would bring us straight back up with ease.
Not for me - if we drop he has to go and i would hope by his own choice so we don't have pay him off .
If we survive he will no doubt get another shot at things next season.
He either has to go or he doesn't. We have been flirting with relegation all season. The narrow divide between drop or not is not enough to use it as a sacking criteria.
The decision that seems to have been made is to keep him until the end of the season at least as a new manager would struggle to make his mark in a short time.
They may already have plans to sack him, regardless of how we end up.
I am for keeping him, by the way.
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I would still stick by him even if we drop. He needs time to get it right, and firmly believe he would bring us straight back up with ease.
Not for me - if we drop he has to go and i would hope by his own choice so we don't have pay him off .
If we survive he will no doubt get another shot at things next season.
It's naive to think anyone would just leave without being paid what they're entitled to, would you do it? He signed a contract in good faith and the club have to honour it, one way or another.
Not that I think it will come to that.
In an ideal world i would have put in a clause that if we are relegated you leave without a pay off but lets hope it doesn't come to relegation and we never find out.
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And appoint who? He is rebuilding the squad from top to bottom with a strategy that in my view will pay off in the long term. Sure, it will be horrible to go down but I would take the seasons pain to stick with a longer term strategy that again, in my view will see us move forward with a way of playing, purchasing and bringing through players. The short termism does't work unless you have bucket loads, while the idea of being a Stoke type side bobbling about mid table playing shit football with no long term progression bores me to tears. The premier league is dull enough as it is, I can deal with a bit of Championship to stick with a plan. It is not the b all so to speak for me.
The only reason you're saying the PL is dull is because the Villa have been so dull. Can't see why you think the Championship would be any more exciting though. I'm sure the endless amounts of midweek games against the likes of Millwall and co doesn't bear thinking about.
If we go down Lambert must be sacked. We shouldn't reward him by letting him keep his job. He should never darken our door again if he drags us down.
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his body language certainly recently is very buoyant, jumping on peoples backs, shouting and balling, he seems to be kicking every ball, now contrast that to TSM last season, now there was a dead man walking
i think he has embraced the club, and feels a part of it, he definitely says all the right things to the fans, which as we know can be important (see O'dreary and houllier)
if there was any talk of him being on his way at the end of the season even if we stay up then he must be totaly unaware of it
for me its simple, if we stay up, he remains in his job and gets the chance to keep re-building and hopefully we can progress next season
if we go down, he goes, as long as we dont get a long ball anti football speciallist in to replace him
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The only reason you're saying the PL is dull is because the Villa have been so dull.
This season has been monumentally shit, including or excluding villa.
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The only reason you're saying the PL is dull is because the Villa have been so dull.
This season has been monumentally shit, including or excluding villa.
If we were in the top 6 and did well in the cups you wouldn't be saying that.
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Mind reader, and no mistake.
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Mind reader, and no mistake.
You're right on one part. This season has been monumentally shit, for Villa that is.
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EDIT: Never mind, I really can't be bothered getting into a discussion on the differences between a successful season for villa and a good / entertaining season in general.
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The only reason you're saying the PL is dull is because the Villa have been so dull.
This season has been monumentally shit, including or excluding villa.
If we were in the top 6 and did well in the cups you wouldn't be saying that.
If we were in the top 6 this thread would clearly not exist and most of us would be happy.
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And appoint who? He is rebuilding the squad from top to bottom with a strategy that in my view will pay off in the long term. Sure, it will be horrible to go down but I would take the seasons pain to stick with a longer term strategy that again, in my view will see us move forward with a way of playing, purchasing and bringing through players. The short termism does't work unless you have bucket loads, while the idea of being a Stoke type side bobbling about mid table playing shit football with no long term progression bores me to tears. The premier league is dull enough as it is, I can deal with a bit of Championship to stick with a plan. It is not the b all so to speak for me.
Going down will render any "strategy" utterly irrelevant. The vultures will pick over our bones and steal any decent players from us. Meanwhile we'll be left with people like Shay Given and Ireland on huge wages, with an income far lower than the teams in the Premier League. If he takes us down, he will shaft us for years, and shouldn't be allowed to continue to prosper from it.
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They may already have plans to sack him, regardless of how we end up.
Unlikely given Lerner's statement at the end of January.
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Was there some white noise?
Saunders, yes I would, but thanks for telling me what I would be thinking. Now stop it please.
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The only reason you're saying the PL is dull is because the Villa have been so dull.
This season has been monumentally shit, including or excluding villa.
Not sure it's worthy of "monumentally", Ger, it's been too dull for that. The league done and dusted in early April and, however hard Sky try to peddle it, unless you are one of the clubs involved the "battle for fourth place" is a non-event.
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They may already have plans to sack him, regardless of how we end up.
Unlikely given Lerner's statement at the end of January.
Were there not similar statements of support for McLeish last spring?
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The only reason you're saying the PL is dull is because the Villa have been so dull.
This season has been monumentally shit, including or excluding villa.
If we were in the top 6 and did well in the cups you wouldn't be saying that.
If we were in the top 6 this thread would clearly not exist and most of us would be happy.
Indeed. And fans probably wouldn't be on here claiming the league's been dull.
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The only reason you're saying the PL is dull is because the Villa have been so dull.
This season has been monumentally shit, including or excluding villa.
Not sure it's worthy of "monumentally", Ger, it's been too dull for that. The league done and dusted in early April and, however hard Sky try to peddle it, unless you are one of the clubs involved the "battle for fourth place" is a non-event.
exactly my point. Also, can I add Villa have been, apart from too many mistakes, way more entertaining this season so it is nothing to do with Villa, just football in general. It has been a mightily boring season. The fact there are only 3 possible players of the season really, and all 3 are widely disliked says a lot.
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The only reason you're saying the PL is dull is because the Villa have been so dull.
This season has been monumentally shit, including or excluding villa.
Not sure it's worthy of "monumentally", Ger, it's been too dull for that. The league done and dusted in early April and, however hard Sky try to peddle it, unless you are one of the clubs involved the "battle for fourth place" is a non-event.
exactly my point. Also, can I add Villa have been, apart from too many mistakes, way more entertaining this season so it is nothing to do with Villa, just football in general. It has been a mightily boring season. The fact there are only 3 possible players of the season really, and all 3 are widely disliked says a lot.
Are you really claiming we've been entertaining this season?
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The fact there are only 3 possible players of the season really, and all 3 are widely disliked says a lot.
Is that rare? I can't think of many seasons where there are more than one or two likely candidates.
But I'm not sure whether there is one or twenty possibilities dictates how entertaining the season has been.
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Think of the 10 best goals we have scored in the last 3 seasons. I reckon most would come this. We have taken the lead a lot, got to a cup semi, played some lovely football and continuously shot ourselves in the foot. But yeah we have been great to watch going forward at times, if of course you are not looking through the specs of John Major in spitting image.
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I think it does Dave. There have been seasons where the league has been lifted by some outstanding sides, with great players, I think it is very mediocre at the moment.
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Think of the 10 best goals we have scored in the last 3 seasons. I reckon most would come this. We have taken the lead a lot, got to a cup semi, played some lovely football and continuously shot ourselves in the foot. But yeah we have been great to watch going forward at times, if of course you are not looking through the specs of John Major in spitting image.
This season has been appalling. Try as much as you like but you'll never convince many it's been entertaining.
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Think of the 10 best goals we have scored in the last 3 seasons. I reckon most would come this. We have taken the lead a lot, got to a cup semi, played some lovely football and continuously shot ourselves in the foot. But yeah we have been great to watch going forward at times, if of course you are not looking through the specs of John Major in spitting image.
This season has been appalling. Try as much as you like but you'll never convince many it's been entertaining.
Parts have been. As a total I think writing it off as such kills all hope for the future where many positives can be drawn.
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The fact there are only 3 possible players of the season really, and all 3 are widely disliked says a lot.
Is that rare? I can't think of many seasons where there are more than one or two likely candidates.
But I'm not sure whether there is one or twenty possibilities dictates how entertaining the season has been.
Usually there are two or three stand out players - seems a normal season in that respect.
The fact the title race is over so early is not great , but I think the dogfight between 8 teams at the bottom will be exciting and go to the last game ( hopefully not for us).
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Think of the 10 best goals we have scored in the last 3 seasons. I reckon most would come this. We have taken the lead a lot, got to a cup semi, played some lovely football and continuously shot ourselves in the foot. But yeah we have been great to watch going forward at times, if of course you are not looking through the specs of John Major in spitting image.
This season has been appalling. Try as much as you like but you'll never convince many it's been entertaining.
The schoolboy errors that have created so many disappointing results have been appalling. The inevitable surrendering of leads has been excruciating.
But I agree with Ozz: some of the goals we've scored have been joyful to watch; some of the passing moves have been great; some of the honest endeavour has been heart warming.
Perhaps, however, we're judging the season on the back of two heart-stoppingly painful years during whcih we have endured the likes of Hutton, Ireland, Collins , Heskey et al poncing around and really not doing very much.
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I think QPR was game of the season closely followed by an hour against Man ure, that sums it all up really..
Edit, Now I actually think a bit Liverpool away was good and Man City in the cup
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edit
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Think of the 10 best goals we have scored in the last 3 seasons. I reckon most would come this. We have taken the lead a lot, got to a cup semi, played some lovely football and continuously shot ourselves in the foot. But yeah we have been great to watch going forward at times, if of course you are not looking through the specs of John Major in spitting image.
This season has been appalling. Try as much as you like but you'll never convince many it's been entertaining.
The schoolboy errors that have created so many disappointing results have been appalling. The inevitable surrendering of leads has been excruciating.
But I agree with Ozz: some of the goals we've scored have been joyful to watch; some of the passing moves have been great; some of the honest endeavour has been heart warming.
Perhaps, however, we're judging the season on the back of two heart-stoppingly painful years during whcih we have endured the likes of Hutton, Ireland, Collins , Heskey et al poncing around and really not doing very much.
Fully agree with this.
Yes, we need better players in a few positions and the results haven't been there, but it's easy to see what Lambert is trying to do and if he gets it right, which obviously is still a big question, then we'll be a great side with much to admire.
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And appoint who? He is rebuilding the squad from top to bottom with a strategy that in my view will pay off in the long term. Sure, it will be horrible to go down but I would take the seasons pain to stick with a longer term strategy that again, in my view will see us move forward with a way of playing, purchasing and bringing through players. The short termism does't work unless you have bucket loads, while the idea of being a Stoke type side bobbling about mid table playing shit football with no long term progression bores me to tears. The premier league is dull enough as it is, I can deal with a bit of Championship to stick with a plan. It is not the b all so to speak for me.
The only reason you're saying the PL is dull is because the Villa have been so dull. Can't see why you think the Championship would be any more exciting though. I'm sure the endless amounts of midweek games against the likes of Millwall and co doesn't bear thinking about.
If we go down Lambert must be sacked. We shouldn't reward him by letting him keep his job. He should never darken our door again if he drags us down.
If we go down I won't see it as Lambert 'dragging us down'. This club has been on the slide for a few years now and this would simply be a culmination of of those years of mismanagement.
We don't know what has gone on behind the scenes in terms of getting rid of the senior players on large wages (or trying to), any wage cap that has been implemented, or any other financial issues that Lambert has had to put up with.
I see a team that has been abject at times this season but that at the moment seems to be improving. We haven't been outplayed even by a top team in recent weeks and going forward we look better than we have done for a long time.
Going down would be awful, no doubt, but I don't see anyone better than Lambert to get us back up (with the possible exception of a real old-school Championship manager such as Mick McCarthy) and I don't think we should 'punish' him for this season. That would be cutting off our collective nose to spite our face.
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I think QPR was game of the season closely followed by an hour against Man ure, that sums it all up really..
Edit, Now I actually think a bit Liverpool away was good and Man City in the cup
Liverpool away was game of the season. Norwich away and Man City away were also pretty special.
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Swansea at home was the best. 2 good goals. Good performance. Clean sheet. Can't say that too often...
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Liverpool away was great. Really enjoyed Sunderland as well.
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I think Liverpool away was our best performance, but Man City in the cup probably the most entertaining game if you were a neutral.
Actually, thinking about it again I'd say 'best performance' is a tie between Liverpool away and Swansea at home.
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Liverpool away was great. Really enjoyed Sunderland as well.
Agree with you clampy , Liverpool away was the best performance so far - great goals too.
For enjoyment though i would say qpr will take some beating because of the importance of the game.
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Lambert is doing mission impossible really. We're a long way from competing for the league or the Sky4 places and our youthful naivity cost us in both cups. The relegation scrap if anything has the made the season a little more interesting if only for the wrong reasons.
I like what Lambert is trying to do, and given time I think you'll see a Villa side filled with players who are well motivated to do well at the club as well prove themselves in this league. Lambert is guilty of mistakes, and at times can be stubborn. (I'd like to see us play with genuine width for instance) However, he is the best we can hope for at the moment and I do believe he'll move us forwards. A couple of experienced, good professionals in to replace wankers like Ireland, Dunne, Warnock and Hutton and I think the dynamic of our squad would change enormously.
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Interesting read -
By James Nursey | 04/04/13
Aston Villa's campaign has had more highs and lows this season than Blackpool Pleasure Beach.
Even boss Paul Lambert admits himself it has been a roller-coaster of a season.
Despite some memorable wins in the League and Cup, Villa's Premier League fate still lies very much in the balance with Lambert's men 18th.
Clearly over the course of a season, if Villa finish in the relegation zone they can have few complaints about going down.
But do Villa and manager Lambert really deserve relegation and would the Premier League be better off without them?
I would argue they don't and that Lambert's brave, bold policy deserves to succeed.
As a neutral, Villa's campaign has been extremely refreshing.
Most managers are far too concerned about their own jobs to take a risk nurturing or blooding young talent.
The most obvious consequence of this is our bang average national team where Roy Hodgson has an increasingly small pool of English players to chose from.
But Lambert has given plenty of Villa youngsters a chance to make a name for themselves as he has utilised both graduates of the club's own academy - plus lower league or foreign talent.
Ciaran Clark, Nathan Baker, Ashley Westwood, Matt Lowton and Andreas Weimann have all shown great promise this season and have bright futures in the top-flight.
By blooding these players, inevitably there have been mistakes on the pitch and that is what puts other managers off doing likewise.
But the long-term benefit to Aston Villa, and possibly the game if other clubs follow suit, will be fascinating to assess in the future.
Lambert has also shown balls to drop big names like keeper Shay Given and £18million striker Darren Bent.
The latter decision has been vindicated because Brad Guzan has been outstanding in goal and Christian Benteke a revelation upfront.
With Villa's young defence still learning on the job, and prone to lapses of concentration reflecting their inexperience, Villa's matches have rarely been dull.
The likes of Benteke and Weimann have been banging them in at the other end to provide some cracking matches such as QPR at home recently.
Lambert's attacking tactics are a stark contrast to the football served up last season under Alex McLeish which supporters so often moaned about.
In fact, over at Lambert's old club Norwich City, many fans are already bemoaning his departure as successor Chris Hughton has a more measured, cautious outlook.
Against Liverpool, Villa really went for it in the first half when they led 1-0 at the break and were cheered off by their delighted fans.
Anyone who has watched the side over the course of a season can recognise the team is growing together and improving and it is good to watch Villa's youngsters mature.
They ended up losing to Liverpool, who played very well in the second half, as the hosts' current Achilles Heel of defensive mistakes continued which underlines the risks involved with Villa's strategy.
But it sure more admirable than setting up not to lose or playing unattractive football like some of the teams just above Villa in the table.
Stoke vs Villa this weekend should highlight that and the natives there are growing fed up with it at the Britannia.
Of course, my idealistic sentiments will count for little if Villa are relegated.
But I maintain it would be good for the league if Villa stay up after giving youth a chance and bringing in some rough diamonds which have polished up nicely.
For you can bet rivals clubs will be in very quickly for Benteke, Guzan, Weimann, Lowton, Clark and Baker if Villa go down.
That would effectively see other clubs reaping the rewards of Lambert's faith in youth and unknowns.
In reality Lambert hasn't had much of a choice given owner Randy Lerner demands to reduce the wage bill.
But Lambert has embraced Villa's new philosophy.
It remains a massive gamble and if Villa do go down it will have backfired badly for everyone - especially Lerner and Lambert.
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That's a good article from nursey, and I agree with every word of it
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That's a good article from nursey, and I agree with every word of it
I agree, it is a well written article providing plenty food for thought.
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Liverpool away was great. Really enjoyed Sunderland as well.
Agree with you clampy , Liverpool away was the best performance so far - great goals too.
I might be on my own, but I didn't think the Liverpool performance was that impressive. We were under the cosh for a lot of it and although we scored three really good goals we could easily have drawn 3-3.
The only difference for me between the Liverpool and Everton games is that Fellaini was on form and Suarez wasn't.
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Liverpool away was great. Really enjoyed Sunderland as well.
Agree with you clampy , Liverpool away was the best performance so far - great goals too.
I might be on my own, but I didn't think the Liverpool performance was that impressive. We were under the cosh for a lot of it and although we scored three really good goals we could easily have drawn 3-3.
The only difference for me between the Liverpool and Everton games is that Fellaini was on form and Suarez wasn't.
It's a fair comment dave , but I think the quality of our goals swung things for me - and the fact that it was Liverpool.
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Who on earth would be in for Clark? The blind school might make a bid?
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Liverpool away was great. Really enjoyed Sunderland as well.
Agree with you clampy , Liverpool away was the best performance so far - great goals too.
I might be on my own, but I didn't think the Liverpool performance was that impressive. We were under the cosh for a lot of it and although we scored three really good goals we could easily have drawn 3-3.
The only difference for me between the Liverpool and Everton games is that Fellaini was on form and Suarez wasn't.
It's a fair comment dave , but I think the quality of our goals swung things for me - and the fact that it was Liverpool.
I'd say a) the goals were also really good against Everton (particularly the third) and b), Everton are better than Liverpool ;)
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Maybe so, but the way we dropped points at goodison left a bitter taste in the last minute whereas it was a pleasant feeling when the whistle blew at anfield.
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They may already have plans to sack him, regardless of how we end up.
Unlikely given Lerner's statement at the end of January.
Were there not similar statements of support for McLeish last spring?
Votes of confidence aren't worth the paper they are written on.
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Everytime I see 'poll reset' I die a little inside.
Leaving Stoke with a huge smile - because a) I am leaving Stoke, and b) when Villa attack they are incredible. Best attacking football since our Brian.
UTV
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Probably best performance of the season - could easily have been at least 6-1 , stoke look awful and we totally deserved the win.
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We have to stick by him. He has bought well, and has significantly improved a number of our players.
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Everytime I see 'poll reset' I die a little inside.
Why?
It's a good way of keeping track of the fluctuating support (although gratifying that at no single point has there been a majority for sacking him), otherwise it'd be a pointless indication of what people thought x months ago.
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Bailed out today by the wondergoal. Started the second half brightly but after that we didn't really create much and we ALL knew a second goal would be needed. He then takes of Gabby who had been our best player up until that point. Then waits to bring N'Zogbia on after they equalise. Just not convinced by his tactical nous. If we stay up, I'm willing to give him a fresh start though.
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He then takes of Gabby who had been our best player up until that point. .
I've been critical of Lambert but no choice with Gabby as he sustained a thigh injury
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There is no doubt several players have looked much better in recent games and the team as a result are looking vastly improved- the likes of Bennett, Delph and gabby have found decent form and added to decent seasons from benteke, Weimann, Westwood , Guzan and Lowton we have the makings of a useful side.
I still feel if we survive that we need three or four experienced players in the summer but certainly things seem to be looking up and confidence is improving.
Lambert can count himself lucky to have kept his job earlier in the year when results and displays were shocking but I think we will survive and he will probably remain in the job and have learnt a lot from this season .
If we survive i think we will probably be much more comfortable next season and in mid table at least.
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Finish the job now and Lambert has done a fantastic job because he's completely turned the club around.
For the first time since Brian Little was manager the whole club feels united. The shit we've all gone through has bonded us because we've stuck together and supported a team and manager that we've seen lack nothing in effort.
He takes risks but they're based on sound values and principles.
I'm more convinced than ever that he's going to make us not only a great side, but a great club again.
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He then takes of Gabby who had been our best player up until that point. .
I've been critical of Lambert but no choice with Gabby as he sustained a thigh injury
Oh right. Fair enough then. Still think N'Zogbia should've come on before they equalised. As I say though, I am willing to ignore his faults displayed this season should we stay up.
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Bailed out today by the wondergoal. Started the second half brightly but after that we didn't really create much and we ALL knew a second goal would be needed. He then takes of Gabby who had been our best player up until that point. Then waits to bring N'Zogbia on after they equalise. Just not convinced by his tactical nous. If we stay up, I'm willing to give him a fresh start though.
He is obviously shit! But thanks for giving him another chance if we stay up.
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It's a good way of keeping track of the fluctuating support (although gratifying that at no single point has there been a majority for sacking him),
Yes there has.
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It's a good way of keeping track of the fluctuating support (although gratifying that at no single point has there been a majority for sacking him),
Yes there has.
Thre was a slight majority in favour of sacking him at one point - i think it was after the millwall defeat but not sure.
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Bailed out today by the wondergoal. Started the second half brightly but after that we didn't really create much and we ALL knew a second goal would be needed. He then takes of Gabby who had been our best player up until that point. Then waits to bring N'Zogbia on after they equalise. Just not convinced by his tactical nous. If we stay up, I'm willing to give him a fresh start though.
A goal scored by a player Lambert signed and who he has selected week in week out.
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The guy has come in under more than difficult circumstances. Lets look at signings, Guzan brilliant, Lowton inexperienced but shows promise, Bennett ditto Lowton, Westwood I really think will be good, Sylla has shown some promise, Benteke brilliant, just brilliant, Bowery havent seen today yet but mate at game said he did well. Dawkins on loan who knows. Not a bad lot IMHO. Lets now look at the young players already there, who has gone bacwards? mmmm, tough perhaps Albrighton, but injuries involved. Gabby is a different playerand fair play to Lambert. I think we have been awful during that post xmas period, but otherwise have competed really well andproud to be a Villan
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I'm more convinced than ever that he's going to make us not only a great side, but a great club again.
Villa have the makings of a strong club IMO. This season has been about halting the slide that started when MON jumped ship and we had to start cutting costs. Stay up this season, keep the good players, get rid of the ones we're wasting wages on and add the money saved to the TV money that will be coming in. Bright future?
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A goal scored by a player Lambert signed and who he has selected week in week out.
Fair enough.
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He then takes of Gabby who had been our best player up until that point. .
I've been critical of Lambert but no choice with Gabby as he sustained a thigh injury
Oh right. Fair enough then. Still think N'Zogbia should've come on before they equalised. As I say though, I am willing to ignore his faults displayed this season should we stay up.
But then he was forced into making the first sub, when I thought it was pretty obvious we'd lost control of the game at that point.
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We won the fecking game, give it a rest
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He then takes of Gabby who had been our best player up until that point. .
I've been critical of Lambert but no choice with Gabby as he sustained a thigh injury
Oh right. Fair enough then. Still think N'Zogbia should've come on before they equalised. As I say though, I am willing to ignore his faults displayed this season should we stay up.
Nzog was brought on against Liverpool and our momentum pretty much stalled. If the same had happened we would have had people saying why did he do it for.
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To be fair, the tide was against us when N'Zog came on last week. Think he has been doing okay for us in recent times, not what we expected perhaps bit working for the team
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I expect will get another season but he must get us back into the top half. We don't want to start thinking of surviving relegation as a successful season.
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Stop fucking moaning.
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It's a good way of keeping track of the fluctuating support (although gratifying that at no single point has there been a majority for sacking him),
Yes there has.
It got close, but I don't think it has ever tipped over to the majority out. And I don't mean half an hour after a game without rational thought, I mean 2-3 days after a poll reset.
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I've been very critical of him, and I still think it was negligent of him to so purposely avoid PL experience both in the summer, and particularly January. It was reckless and he was frustratingly stubborn.
However at no point have I ever wanted him to not be a success, and there are some real encouraging aspects which he deserves immense credit. The stubbornness and conviction could be real assets if he is the real deal.
For me though, if we survive he HAS to learn from this season and bring in experience. I wouldn't forgive him if he made the same mistakes next time.
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Everytime I see 'poll reset' I die a little inside.
Why?
It's a good way of keeping track of the fluctuating support (although gratifying that at no single point has there been a majority for sacking him), otherwise it'd be a pointless indication of what people thought x months ago.
I don't like the poll getting reset either. I've been in favour of Lambert right from the start, he's the right man for Villa.
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I've been very critical of him, and I still think it was negligent of him to so purposely avoid PL experience both in the summer, and particularly January. It was reckless and he was frustratingly stubborn.
However at no point have I ever wanted him to not be a success, and there are some real encouraging aspects which he deserves immense credit. The stubbornness and conviction could be real assets if he is the real deal.
For me though, if we survive he HAS to learn from this season and bring in experience. I wouldn't forgive him if he made the same mistakes next time.
I think he had his hands tied in January to an extent. There was more available than he spent, but I think the wages on offer stopped us being able to afford the sort of players that would have added the experience, and look at QPR with Samba, 125k a week and he is making mistakes just as bad as our kids. Difficult to get it right.
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I expect will get another season but he must get us back into the top half. We don't want to start thinking of surviving relegation as a successful season.
Very true. Still, it feels damn good to win away though!
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I've been very critical of him, and I still think it was negligent of him to so purposely avoid PL experience both in the summer, and particularly January. It was reckless and he was frustratingly stubborn.
However at no point have I ever wanted him to not be a success, and there are some real encouraging aspects which he deserves immense credit. The stubbornness and conviction could be real assets if he is the real deal.
For me though, if we survive he HAS to learn from this season and bring in experience. I wouldn't forgive him if he made the same mistakes next time.
I think he had his hands tied in January to an extent. There was more available than he spent, but I think the wages on offer stopped us being able to afford the sort of players that would have added the experience, and look at QPR with Samba, 125k a week and he is making mistakes just as bad as our kids. Difficult to get it right.
"There was more available than he spent" How do you know? It seems quite obvious that PL is desperate to get the likes of Given, Ireland and Bent off the payroll, until that happens I think his hands are tied.
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He then takes of Gabby who had been our best player up until that point. .
I've been critical of Lambert but no choice with Gabby as he sustained a thigh injury
Oh right. Fair enough then. Still think N'Zogbia should've come on before they equalised. As I say though, I am willing to ignore his faults displayed this season should we stay up.
Nzog was brought on against Liverpool and our momentum pretty much stalled. If the same had happened we would have had people saying why did he do it for.
Didn't Zog come along with Delph against Pool? By that logic, doesn't Delph get an equal share of the blame? The momentum stalled as soon as they equalised. Nothing to do with the subs.
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I find it odd that there are people questioning him today. He got the starting line up spot on. It really wouldn't have flattered us to have been 4 or 5 up by the time Begovic tipped Bowery's chance around the post.
We were still the better side in the 2nd half when Gabby was on. Him picking up a knock and having to go off changed our shape (what was interesting is that for a lot of the time we were playing a 4222 with Gabby and Weimann central behind Bowery and Benteke who were playing wider, which was pulling Huth and Shawcross out of the middle, Weimann shot on the post is a great example of it). On top of that they'd already brought on Jerome who's extra pace meant the long hopeful hoofs which were their only threat were actually being chased down. Before they scored the only other thing of note was the air shot from Jones after Jerome outpaced Bennett. The goal then came about largely because of lowton's slip.
Nzogbia might have come on sooner as Bowery really was looking tired but he didn't get today wrong, if we'd been a bit more ruthless it could have been a real battering.
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He then takes of Gabby who had been our best player up until that point. .
I've been critical of Lambert but no choice with Gabby as he sustained a thigh injury
Oh right. Fair enough then. Still think N'Zogbia should've come on before they equalised. As I say though, I am willing to ignore his faults displayed this season should we stay up.
Nzog was brought on against Liverpool and our momentum pretty much stalled. If the same had happened we would have had people saying why did he do it for.
Didn't Zog come along with Delph against Pool? By that logic, doesn't Delph get an equal share of the blame? The momentum stalled as soon as they equalised. Nothing to do with the subs.
Delph wasn't brought on in an attacking sense as such. And we still had Benteke and Weimann go close after they equalised and took the lead. But in the last 15 mins we did nothing attacking wise. I'm not blaming Nzog as Liverpool pretty much shut up shop from then onwards but just pointing out that subs can go either way.
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We won 3-1 away from home and am I reading Lambert got the tactics wrong?
Ha ha ha ha
3 wins out of 4, that's brilliant form in anyone's book and shows that we are going well and heading in the right direction.
Lambert is absolutely right for our club and the single minded way he's been dealing with the likes of Ireland et al is just what we needed.
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We won 3-1 away from home and am I reading Lambert got the tactics wrong?
Ha ha ha ha
3 wins out of 4, that's brilliant form in anyone's book and shows that we are going well and heading in the right direction.
Lambert is absolutely right for our club and the single minded way he's been dealing with the likes of Ireland et al is just what we needed.
Spot on. Bent is clearly delighted after Lowton scored too, showing he is still pulling for Villa, just does not fit into the shape of the side.
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His starting to get it right and those young players are starting to believe.
There a lot of talent in that team, give him time nexteason could be exciting if we stay up
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I thought he got away with it today. I don't agree that Bowery was a good fit. He worked hard in fairness and did play reasonably well but I do think at the very least he should have brought on Zogbia earlier because he could really have exploited the Stoke fullbacks.
Again our perpetual ability to throw games away almost came to the fore again today. It took a moment of magic to win the game because we were fizzling out of it and if anything Stoke probably would have been more likely to nick a win.
That said, 3 wins in 4 is progress. The errors aren't quite as common now. The most important thing is, since the turn of the year, we've looked better as an attacking unit.
I expect us to cross 40 points this season. So far 8 wins, which is already better than McLeish. Lambert has improved us, no question. He's just got to stop dropping so many clangers. If this season is to be a learning curve, we have to see results more quickly next term and hit the ground running.
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Good comparison between Stoke and Villa here:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/stoke-1-3-aston-villa-big-1815924
Interesting how the writer calls for Villa to stand by Lambert even if they go down.
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I thought he got away with it today. I don't agree that Bowery was a good fit. He worked hard in fairness and did play reasonably well but I do think at the very least he should have brought on Zogbia earlier because he could really have exploited the Stoke fullbacks.
Again our perpetual ability to throw games away almost came to the fore again today. It took a moment of magic to win the game because we were fizzling out of it and if anything Stoke probably would have been more likely to nick a win.
That said, 3 wins in 4 is progress. The errors aren't quite as common now. The most important thing is, since the turn of the year, we've looked better as an attacking unit.
I expect us to cross 40 points this season. So far 8 wins, which is already better than McLeish. Lambert has improved us, no question. He's just got to stop dropping so many clangers. If this season is to be a learning curve, we have to see results more quickly next term and hit the ground running.
The bold bit is the part I disagree with, from a tactical point of view, which is the discussion here.
By the time Stoke equalised we'd had: Weimann strike the post, Gabby try to take the keeper on when the chip was the better choice as well as firing one wide across the face of the goal, Bowery have one turned away at the near post, and glance a header into the ground that they scrambled away and fire one into the side netting. If we'd taken any of those chances would Lambert still have 'gotten away with it'? The reality is we dominated a team for 70minutes before having a 15minute wobble and then finishing them off with an excellent goal and a well taken breakaway goal. That we hadn't put the game well beyond Stoke in that opening 70minutes doesn't mean we got the tactics wrong.
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It's a good way of keeping track of the fluctuating support (although gratifying that at no single point has there been a majority for sacking him),
Yes there has.
Maybe so, but despite numerous resets the latest poll, even given our fairly crap season, shows only 7.1% wanting Lambert out.
Yow am in a small minority Risso!
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Lambert got the tactics spot on.
We dominated them, battered them and completely nulified them. I didn't think Bowrey should have started, I was wrong. I thought Benteke should have gone off, I was wrong.
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Lambert got the tactics spot on.
We dominated them, battered them and completely nulified them. I didn't think Bowrey should have started, I was wrong. I thought Benteke should have gone off, I was wrong.
I'm still not sure on Bowery starting, but the tactics still worked very well indeed.
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Lambert got the tactics spot on.
We dominated them, battered them and completely nulified them. I didn't think Bowrey should have started, I was wrong. I thought Benteke should have gone off, I was wrong.
'Tis why we aren't managers I suppose.
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I remember Lambert in an early (maybe first) press conference, telling us how he wanted to play exciting football and that we needed to outscore the opposition as opposed to just trying to sneak wins.
He's certainly delivering that approach and for all the scary moments it's making us worth watching again. Neutrals know they are going to get goals when they watch us, that's for sure!
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No question there has been a huge improvement in the last 2 months and a lot of that can be down to confidence - long may it continue.
I would have sacked him after the millwall game but if lambert does succeed i will be delighted to be proved wrong - we have the nucleas of a good exciting young team who with 3 or 4 quality additions could have a good future.
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Bowery has started against the 2 most physical sides in the league and we won both games. What is the problem? I've always thought that in the long run we're in safe hands with Lambert. Yes we have a young side who struggle to defend but that side of the game can only improve with experience. Even if we were unlucky enough to go down I'm convinced we'd do a Newcastle and romp the championship. The players clearly love playing for him and we're entertaining to watch. A team playing good football with passion is pretty much all we can hope for in the current state of the game.
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We're great fun to watch. It's been a while since you could say that.
I really like Lambert and would want him to stay even if we went down- it's pretty obvious what he is trying to achieve and we seem to be getting there bit by bit. If we stay up I'd be really optimistic, excited even, about what he could do in the transfer market (I wonder if he watched Luke Murphy yesterday?)
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I thought I'd drag this back up. I think regardless of what happens(I firmly believe we'll survive now), there is absolutely no doubt that Lambert is a million times better than Mcleish was. There is real progression and imiprovement in our side and they're getting better and better. Mcleish's side was limping along and had the season gone on another week we would have been relegated.
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Being better than TSM is no accolade that means you're worthy of being Villa manager.
We've had our worst ever result under him.
He was totally negligent to the club in January.
He should be sacked for Bradford alone.
He mumbles a lot.
Did I miss any?
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Being better than TSM is no accolade that means you're worthy of being Villa manager.
We've had our worst ever result under him.
He was totally negligent to the club in January.
He should be sacked for Bradford alone.
He mumbles a lot.
Did I miss any?
I heard he eats kittens
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Being better than TSM is no accolade that means you're worthy of being Villa manager.
We've had our worst ever result under him.
He was totally negligent to the club in January.
He should be sacked for Bradford alone.
He mumbles a lot.
Did I miss any?
I heard he eats kittens
Does that mean he should be on the Saville thread, if he eats young pussy ?
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Being better than TSM is no accolade that means you're worthy of being Villa manager.
We've had our worst ever result under him.
He was totally negligent to the club in January.
He should be sacked for Bradford alone.
He mumbles a lot.
Did I miss any?
I heard he eats kittens
Biggest home win for 17 years
Got us to a cup semi final
Re-built a squad of young players that can grow over time
Doubled or more the net worth of the squad while also reducing the wage bill
Got a striker to score more league goals in a season than anyone since the premier league began
Bought Sylla in Jan who has helped us shore up the midfield and thus be more solid as a team
Convinced Guzan to come back when he was released by TSM
Players clearly support him
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Being better than TSM is no accolade that means you're worthy of being Villa manager.
We've had our worst ever result under him.
He was totally negligent to the club in January.
He should be sacked for Bradford alone.
He mumbles a lot.
Did I miss any?
I heard he eats kittens
Biggest home win for 17 years
Got us to a cup semi final
Re-built a squad of young players that can grow over time
Doubled or more the net worth of the squad while also reducing the wage bill
Got a striker to score more league goals in a season than anyone since the premier league began
Bought Sylla in Jan who has helped us shore up the midfield and thus be more solid as a team
Convinced Guzan to come back when he was released by TSM
Players clearly support him
didnt we beat Derby 6-0
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Being better than TSM is no accolade that means you're worthy of being Villa manager.
We've had our worst ever result under him.
He was totally negligent to the club in January.
He should be sacked for Bradford alone.
He mumbles a lot.
Did I miss any?
I heard he eats kittens
Biggest home win for 17 years
Got us to a cup semi final
Re-built a squad of young players that can grow over time
Doubled or more the net worth of the squad while also reducing the wage bill
Got a striker to score more league goals in a season than anyone since the premier league began
Bought Sylla in Jan who has helped us shore up the midfield and thus be more solid as a team
Convinced Guzan to come back when he was released by TSM
Players clearly support him
didnt we beat Derby 6-0
That was away.
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Biggest home win for 18 years, Feb 95 when we stuck 7 past Wimbledon.
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Everytime I see 'poll reset' I die a little inside.
Why?
It's a good way of keeping track of the fluctuating support (although gratifying that at no single point has there been a majority for sacking him), otherwise it'd be a pointless indication of what people thought x months ago.
I think last night we all saw what Lambert is about and what he is trying to achieve. It is a tricky business promoting young untested players. It is a business that is not helped by fan negativity. Even if many of those negative fans don't bother going to games very much. It is about a vibe that surrounds a club. The media like to pick up on those vibes and fan any flames that may be smouldering. Without a care whether such fire-starting is of benefit or detriment to the club in question.
I'll give you an example.
Go to Google - click news - search randy lerner - have a browse at the media coverage - especially the images of Randy they use.
Now go back to Google - click images - search randy lerner - and look at all the pictures of randy. Notice how the vast majority of them show a happy smiling friendly looking man. Now compare them with the ones the media choose to use. They tend to be bad photos - photos of randy between normal expressions - sucking a tooth - biting a lip - photos of him looking moody or grumpy or worried.
They do this because they are trying to create a narrative - they want Villa fans shouting and protesting and blaming because then they can then fill their empty media channels with that stuff. The media machine is never sated - it just keeps eating and eating - everyday a blank page has to be filled - another 5 minutes have to be recorded. The media like discord because it makes their jobs easier.
Polls like this feed into that. Journos trawl and troll forums like this looking for angles. They want there to be a story - and if there isn't one - they will try to whip one up.
Like this.
(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Son_Lyme/www_mirror_co_uk_sport_football_news_aston-villa-column-randy-lerner-1861217AstonVillacolumn_RandyLernermustfulfilhispartoft_zps8436c0b8.jpg)
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-column-randy-lerner-1861217 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-column-randy-lerner-1861217)
Villa have just played some of the best football to be seen at Villa Park in years - yet this chinless cnut from the Mirror chooses to go with a anxiety angle that suggests Lerner would destroy the very thing he has worked so hard to create because he is tight and miserly. It is bullshit.
Lerner is being confused with Glazier because a: he is American, and b; because journalists are lazy wnakers and will peddle untruths if they look like a story.
What is true here is that Lerner did indeed change tack at Villa. He tried buying success as recommended by Martin O'Neill. It cost far too much and didn't work. So now he is trying to build success with Paul Lambert. Young hungry players they said. Youth would be the key to accomplishing the mighty task of moving Villa forward and upward. And it was a risk. It took balls. Lerner's actions in regard to Aston Villa have been nothing but honourable if occasionally misguided. But Lerner learned his lesson. Our kids have learned theirs. Have we as fans learned ours?
The task of making Villa great again is hard. Polls like this only create doubt and feed the negative media. And when you are trying to accomplish any hard task - doubt and fear are your enemies not your friends.
Villa have undergone a transition - with a wounded owner learning a lesson. A talented young coach backing his judgement. And a promising youthful squad getting better and better.
This poll is not pointless. It was an attempt by disaffected non-believers to whip up support and try to evict yet another manager. It is the virtual analogue of the painted bedsheet hung from the Upper Holte. It was created on the back of defeat and re-launched with every loss. It is a symptom of its creator's blame laying mindset - it is not - in any way - helpful.
Thankfully - as recent performances have indicated - this brave young Villa team are on an upward curve - and all credit to the owner - and to the manager - for making hard decisions and sticking by what they believe.
I look forward to this poll drying up and blowing away as another great chapter gets written in the glorious book of Aston Villa Football Club 1874.
The future is bright.
And poll free.
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Interesting post, Sonlyme, but if anything the poll serves to dispel the impression that Villa fans are in anyway against Lambert. Less than 7% have voted to get shot of him, that's notable for a team who have been hovering just above the relegation places for most of the season. It counters the impression you might get from just reading the threads where a small number of prolific posters have been calling for him to be removed.
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The article is worth a read and in my opinion says what most supporters think. If its true Bill Weimann and Benteke are on a combined 35k doubling or even trebling their wages has to be the first job when were safe.
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The article is worth a read and in my opinion says what most supporters think. If its true Bill Weimann and Benteke are on a combined 35k doubling or even trebling their wages has to be the first job when were safe.
I thought the article was a decent enough read and matt law is usually pretty fair to us.
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I fail to see the role of polls like this in whipping up anything - every single one we have had, every one, has shown a majority support for the manager. I don't really see that being spun or fed into any article.
if your angle is that they take things from forums - ie supporter anger - and spin this into stories, then short of closing this place down, or not saying what we think, I don't see how that's going to be stopped.
Incidentally, the author of that Mirror article, Matt Law, is a Villa fan. I follow him on Twitter, and he makes his allegiances very clear.
There's not really much to disagree with there, either. He's saying something we've said on here thousands of times - the manager needs to be backed over the summer by the chairman.
I also suspect the choice of photo for the chairman is more likely to be governed by the range of photos they've already bought the rights to use.
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Being better than TSM is no accolade that means you're worthy of being Villa manager.
We've had our worst ever result under him.
He was totally negligent to the club in January.
He should be sacked for Bradford alone.
He mumbles a lot.
Did I miss any?
Honestly, if anyone can't see what Lambert is trying to build here then I despair.
I honestly believe that as long as we stay up this season we will be the envy of all but the glory-hunters in two or three seasons. We'll have a young, hungry, exciting, attacking team made up of players we can identify with. And we will win things.
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If its true Bill Weimann and Benteke are on a combined 35k doubling or even trebling their wages has to be the first job when were safe.
I'm sorry but no. Treble their wages to £105k a week and you've got two players on over £50k a week putting us right back to square one.
We're Aston Villa and we need to use that a bit more. Yes Birmingham might not be as attractive to foreign players as London is but we're not fucking Bolton, needing to throw silly money at players to get them to come here. Our wages got out of hand under MON because he was lazy and that was the easy way of signing players. Footballers always measure their own worth by reference to what their peers are earning (helped along by their agents) so very quickly our wage base got way out of hand. Lerner (along with TSM and Lambert) have gone a huge way towards rebasing our wages and we don't want to stuff all that hard work by breaking it for a couple of individuals.
If players want to be part of what we're doing then great, but there's more to life at Aston Villa than the pay cheque. No one player is bigger than the club and hopefully the steps we've seen over the past few years is the start of a bit more commerciality by those in charge.
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Golden times for Aston Villa
Adrian Durham Talk sport 30/04/2013
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If you think Benteke will stay for 40k a week your having a laugh.He mixes with Kompany and Hazard and the like. I don't believe the problem is just the wage. The problem Villa had/have are the type of bums who get big wages.
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This poll is not pointless. It was an attempt by disaffected non-believers to whip up support and try to evict yet another manager
Can I respectfully point out for the 10th time, as the person who started the topic, that the poll was added later by a mod and the title changed, and wasn't part of my original post at all. It was simply a rant after another defeat, and the adding of the poll which has been reset several times over the course of the season was nothing to do with me and therefore not an attempt to whip up support for anything of the sort. Ta.
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No you may not. You're a trouble making roustabout and that's all there is to it.
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I'm sorry but no. Treble their wages to £105k a week and you've got two players on over £50k a week putting us right back to square one.
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At some point we're going to have to. Not just with Weimann and Benteke, but Guzan, Lowton and others if they develop as they should.
If they are worth it, we will be able to afford it. It's paying such wages for non-contributors that has screwed us.
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We can afford to put our better players on wages more fitting of top 8 worthy players. Benteke is the standout one of course. I think we'll need to treble his wages.
As for Wiemann, Lowton etc. It's case by case. Andy deserves a little more, but he's got a long way to go before he'd warrant 40k+ Same with Lowton. We have to see him develop over next season, as well as improve defensively.
What we'll never do again, and can't. Is have 14-18 players in our squad, averaging around 30-40k. Wasn't Marlon Harewood on something ludicrous like 30 odd? Heskey, reportedly 60k.
Sooner or later though, to develop. We'll need a first 11 that's capable of being solid top half table minimum. That is, long term, going to require bigger wages.
The beauty of Lamberts ethos though, is that we'll always refresh our side, with new, young talent. They won't be on big money. They'll take 2-3 seasons, if they make the grade, to earn it.
Sooner or later, other clubs will have to follow our example. If the F.A actually starts enforcing the financial fair play rules properly, then even ridiculous clubs like Man City will have to change their tactics.
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You get the big money if you deserve it. Which is as it should be. And if you're more motivated by money than anything else then you're not for us. I reckon Lambert is pretty canny at managing this from the things he's said in the past.
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No you may not. You're a trouble making roustabout and that's all there is to it.
Bah, and I'd have got away with it if it wasn't for you pesky kids.
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You get the big money if you deserve it. Which is as it should be. And if you're more motivated by money than anything else then you're not for us. I reckon Lambert is pretty canny at managing this from the things he's said in the past.
Exactly.
I don't have any issue with, say, Benteke picking up 65k a week or whatever we pay him if he stays, because he has proved he's worth it this season.
What I have an issue with, and what I suspect Randy resented most, is the number of players we've had on our books who were picking up big money (not necessarily 65k big, but your NRCs, utterly average players, on 40k a week, too) and contributing absolutely nothing.
I'd imagine our three biggest earners this season are Ireland, Given and Bent, and we could very easily have got through this season, and been exactly where we are, with no intervention from those three at all. They've hardly featured.
We are going to have to pay big money to the really good players. There's no escaping that if we want to progress.
What we need to get significantly better at is identifying which are the really good players who deserve that big money.
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I'd imagine that if we're going to have a chance of keeping Benteke that he'll be in for a bit of a rise.
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I'd imagine that if we're going to have a chance of keeping Benteke that he'll be in for a bit of a rise.
Of course he will. And fair enough.
If we stay up, given that there's a world cup at the end of the season, I think we've got a chance of keeping him for a year. Another good season, then a decent world cup (and Belgium are more than decent), and he can get himself a move pretty much anywhere he wants.
All this bollocks about Tottenham, he shouldn't even be considering. He should be aiming much higher than that, and another season like this, and he'll get it.
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I'd imagine that if we're going to have a chance of keeping Benteke that he'll be in for a bit of a rise.
Of course he will. And fair enough.
If we stay up, given that there's a world cup at the end of the season, I think we've got a chance of keeping him for a year. Another good season, then a decent world cup (and Belgium are more than decent), and he can get himself a move pretty much anywhere he wants.
All this bollocks about Tottenham, he shouldn't even be considering. He should be aiming much higher than that, and another season like this, and he'll get it.
Benteke will be the first 100k a week player at Villa. He will go fucking nowhere when we qualify for the Champions league next season.
and i will put a fucking bet on that with anybody on this site. UTV.
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No you may not. You're a trouble making roustabout and that's all there is to it.
Rob Curling's finest game show.
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In an ideal world we'd give players a decent but not OTT basic wage but add in a bunch of performance clauses. If they and the Villa do well they get very well paid. Well in my ideal world anyway.
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In an ideal world we'd give players a decent but not OTT basic wage but add in a bunch of performance clauses. If they and the Villa do well they get very well paid. Well in my ideal world anyway.
Mine too
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In an ideal world we'd give players a decent but not OTT basic wage but add in a bunch of performance clauses. If they and the Villa do well they get very well paid. Well in my ideal world anyway.
Mine too
Me to. Sounds quite sensible that does. Makes a refreshing change.
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As regards the wages, I think if you are going to pay big money to people then it helps if you are actually going to play them rather than pay them a fortune for the odd appearance and also helps if they are in the young and ambitious bracket whereby if they do the business for you are relatively easy to move on if necessary. Like Young or Milner as opposed to Beye, Ireland, etc.
As for Lambert, it's nice to have a manager that doesn't think he is doing us a favour by being here and also has the SGT mentality of 'if you are going to lose a game, make sure you did so whilst at least trying to win it in the first place'. I know on the whole I have enjoyed games/performances far more this season than last.
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Young and foreign players can be brought in on a relatively low salary. Once they've proven themselves, like a number have, they can be given pay rises. Compare that to the previous strategy of signing 'proven' Premier League players for their last big pay day and then either not using them or realising they are either a) not interested or b) not good enough.
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So now we're staying up, it's worth doing this again.
Anyone for 'out'?
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Not a chance, the good football and the progress he's definitely the man to take us forward.
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Why have a new poll every few weeks?
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Why have a new poll every few weeks?
Because people's opinions change as circumstances change?
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It's a good job the boards opinion doesn't change every few weeks or we would end up like the dogheads.
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Why have a new poll every few weeks?
Because people's opinions change as circumstances change?
or because were fickle? Only joking :-) 100% IN
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Keep.
He's done well these last two months and won me over as we now have a cutting edge to our play and we're actually exciting to watch again.
Vital we keep the 3 attackers together as I can't see us magically keeping clean sheets. If we lose Benteke and Weimann and the replacements aren't up to scratch going to be another hard year so vital we get both signed to new deals.
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At no time, even when we were deep in the shit, has any poll had a majority wanting Plumbutt out, so suffice to say we don't really need one now do we?
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I've just voted, Lambert IN! :-)
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I've just voted, Lambert IN! :-)
You'll be suggesting new contracts for Lowton and Westwood next....
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I've just voted, Lambert IN! :-)
Yowzah, really?!? I'm pretty sure this is one of the signs of the apocalypse!
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I've just voted, Lambert IN! :-)
Bloody hell! ;)!
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Get Fergie in...looks like he might be free
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At no time, even when we were deep in the shit, has any poll had a majority wanting Plumbutt out
Indeed, and that says a lot about us.
I know we would say this, but really, we - us supporters - have been a credit to the club this season, stuck behind the team even when things were going abysmally, stuck behind the manager, seen the bigger picture.
We have still got masses of work to do, and flirting with relegation is not a habit we want to get in to, but we're starting to do something interesting at the club, and I think a lot more people will be keeping an eye on us next season.
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At no time, even when we were deep in the shit, has any poll had a majority wanting Plumbutt out
Indeed, and that says a lot about us.
I know we would say this, but really, we - us supporters - have been a credit to the club this season, stuck behind the team even when things were going abysmally, stuck behind the manager, seen the bigger picture.
We have still got masses of work to do, and flirting with relegation is not a habit we want to get in to, but we're starting to do something interesting at the club, and I think a lot more people will be keeping an eye on us next season.
agreed but I think the club, or the team, were losing the support until the second-half against Newcastle. From thereafter it changed.
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I'm just grateful that it looks like we're going to survive chopping and changing our manager every year. Finally we can have a bit of stability and build on what we have. It's been a long time since we've had a guy who's been with us a whole season, who has seen what's wrong and where and getting the chance to fix it. No time lost looking for a new manager - we can just focus on our transfer business and will presumably have already done a lot of the research.
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I honestly don't think they have lost the support at any time. It's impressive stuff, really, when you consider some of the shit we've been served up this season.
Even on here - us, being a bunch of screaming children who get angry about absolutely everything - the support has never dipped away from Lambert.
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Yeah, it's been a strange one really. On the one hand we spent most of the season, statistically speaking, being worse than anything McLeish produced, yet somehow the majority of us just knew it was worth sticking with. Gut instinct I call it.
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Probably helped that he was the fan's choice to take over. Not saying its the only reason, but probably a factor.
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Yeah, it's been a strange one really. On the one hand we spent most of the season, statistically speaking, being worse than anything McLeish produced, yet somehow the majority of us just knew it was worth sticking with. Gut instinct I call it.
I think that shows that statistics only offer so much, because it's clear we're a more exciting side with more potential than we ever were under Mcleish. Although the statistics are shifting into Lambert's favour now as well.
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Probably helped following on from McLeish as well. Even when we were having shite we were more entertaining to watch than last season.
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Get Fergie in...looks like he might be free
Villa is a bit of a step up from Peterborough!
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Probably helped following on from McLeish as well. Even when we were having shite we were more entertaining to watch than last season.
Anything following something that you really didn't like is always going be considered better.
The Malcolm Everall Theorum.
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Never have I once voted anything but 'in', and have defended his name to many a fellow Villa fan this season.
Not that I'm a 'told you so' type or anything...
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Risso to the thread, calling Risso to the thread.... ;-)
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And some were advocating Dean Saunders,now available.Easy to sack a manager,can be difficult to find a better replacement,ask Mr Moxey.
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There's a question that's been nagging me. If "Shake him all about" got the most votes, what would we be saying, exactly?
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In (Lambert we Trust) as it has been all season.
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I'm not sure that even Roy Keane could have done a better job or signed better players.
I love you Paul *screamed Beatlemania style*
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Probably helped following on from McLeish as well. Even when we were having shite we were more entertaining to watch than last season.
He's given us football that we want to watch, players that we want to embrace. Despite the depths of this season at times there has been a plan and he's stuck to it and it is something we can all get behind. Our fans aren't stupid. They can see it evolving. We need to keep on believing.
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Well, Man United are bound to want the mighty Lambo now.
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Well, Man United are bound to want the mighty Lambo now.
Tongue in cheek? - I hope so: he's no way proved himself for a job like that yet.
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Like the young players, he still has a lot to learn but he'll get there. Of all the British managers around today, I'd expect him to be one of the few that will still be around in 5, not to mention 10 years time. The man's progressive and I can't see him sitting back as you can tell he wants to win things.
I'd be a lot more happier if he can sort out the defence, something he failed to do at Norwich in his 3 years there. It's naive to think we can just outscore other teams every week.
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Since the 2nd half v Newcastle we've been pretty good. I like what I'm seeing.
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Remained voting IN, which i have done since the poll started. Id like an improved backline, either through coaching or new faces, I think with the age of these players on the whole, a lot will come with experience. Really happy with the front line up. Would be delighted if we could replace Given, Dunne, Bannan, Nzog and Ireland with the quality he has already proven to bring in, and with Gardner and Carruthers coming through potentially, it has started to look long term promising
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And Bent out too
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So, as a matter of interest, who voted 'out'?
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No question that things were dicey up until late January and many a chairman may have pulled the trigger.
It took a long time to settle on a formation of play that suited the players but once we got that right the younger lads have blossomed and came on leaps and bounds- the last few months have been hugely encouraging and the signs are good for the future.
We need to add 2 or 3 players to improve the side and if we can get the defence more solid and add another midfielder then there is no reason we cannot finish top half next year.
Lambert was my choice last season and i would probably have pulled the trigger after the millwall game but i am delighted he has pulled things together and really do feel excited about the future .
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So, as a matter of interest, who voted 'out'?
Me. And it was fully justified back in January. Worst league defeat in history and going out in a semi final over 2 legs to a 4th division side.Delighted he has turned things around now
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I think Ger might be referring to the solitary vote on the reset poll.
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I think Ger might be referring to the solitary vote on the reset poll.
Ahhhhh. They will be Small Heathens probably
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Well, Man United are bound to want the mighty Lambo now.
In 2 years time, when Moyes has underwhelmed and we have gone from strength to strength, this may not be so ridiculous.
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Our form over the last 3 months has been a lot better. You can see the turnaround. He's finally found a system that works too and can utilize a very talented front 3. His eye for a signing is largely good. There's no out and out duffers. Dawkins is a loan. No impact though. It was a punt, but it's no biggy. Bowery could prove useful and I'd be interested to see him playing as an out and out forward, rather than out of position on the wing.
KEA hasn't been great but you can see there's ability there. And our other youngens have plenty of potential. Tekkers, Westwood and Lowton have been fantastic signings though. Re-signing Guzan has also been a master stroke.
We looked dead and buried over xmas and early jan. Now however, we look like an entertaining, if erratic, mid-table side. Next season, with 3-4 quality additions, bodes well.
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There's a major difference between last season and this season. Last season we were an a major downward curve (and only for our decent start would have been relegated), whereas this year we have seen a real upward curve. We might end up on roughly the same amount of points (although we've already bettered last year), but I know which scenario fills me with more confidence.
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I can forgive those who wanted him out during those dark days of Chelsea and Bradford. We were very poor then. However, I suppose it's a reminder that it's only really fair to judge after 38 games. Compare us to Wolves, who pulled the trigger and still went down - I think McCarthy would have kept them up! Similarly, Reading and QPR changed manager and it had no effect.
Patience is the key for this season and the overall project we've embarked on under Lambert.
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I was all for him getting the boot at the time of the Bradford first leg, but did temper my frustration over time. I appreciate what he is trying to achieve, I just think that he could have made it slightly easier by being somewhat more cautious at times, without straying into TSM territory.
I think has has learned that himself. After what happened at Stamford Bridge, faced with the same situation at Old Trafford, his half time replacement helped avoid a battering that could've seen us collapse in terms of morale.
Overall, we weren't that bad in January as we are not that good now, it is a work in progress but within that, the manager must ensure that our presence within the division is not put at risk. For me the manager has sailed rather too close to the wind this time around, I hope and expect that it won't happen next season.
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It's taken him till January to get something close to a settled side. I suppose when you have that many new young recruits it will take them time to gel and as a result we've had to endure a lot of pain up to that time to get to where we are now. If we had 'clicked' a month earlier than we did we'd have another trophy in the cabinet now. I'm sure of it.
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I was all for him getting the boot at the time of the Bradford first leg, but did temper my frustration over time. I appreciate what he is trying to achieve, I just think that he could have made it slightly easier by being somewhat more cautious at times, without straying into TSM territory.
I think has has learned that himself. After what happened at Stamford Bridge, faced with the same situation at Old Trafford, his half time replacement helped avoid a battering that could've seen us collapse in terms of morale.
Overall, we weren't that bad in January as we are not that good now, it is a work in progress but within that, the manager must ensure that our presence within the division is not put at risk. For me the manager has sailed rather too close to the wind this time around, I hope and expect that it won't happen next season.
How did he stray into TSM territory? I can't recall Villa under PL this season playing for a draw from the first minute of a game.
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I was all for him getting the boot at the time of the Bradford first leg, but did temper my frustration over time. I appreciate what he is trying to achieve, I just think that he could have made it slightly easier by being somewhat more cautious at times, without straying into TSM territory.
I think has has learned that himself. After what happened at Stamford Bridge, faced with the same situation at Old Trafford, his half time replacement helped avoid a battering that could've seen us collapse in terms of morale.
Overall, we weren't that bad in January as we are not that good now, it is a work in progress but within that, the manager must ensure that our presence within the division is not put at risk. For me the manager has sailed rather too close to the wind this time around, I hope and expect that it won't happen next season.
How did he stray into TSM territory? I can't recall Villa under PL this season playing for a draw from the first minute of a game.
I didn't say that.
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If you consider how much we have to positive about, we're in a great position now. Yes this year has been tough, but all of the players now have this experience under their belts and I fully believe we'll survive in the league now. There's real potential for growth with us and I think the only way is up with Lambert in charge.
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I like Lambert a lot, and I rate him even higher after this season, but there's no doubt he's had us sailing very, very close to the wind.
The project re younger players is admirable, but the risk was that, in getting relegated, we'd lose our better players and end up not so much back at square one, but considerably further back than that.
I am really unsure what to think about the January window. We signed nobody in the positions we really needed them, and we appear to have got away with it. Maybe that's because there wasn't money there, or because Lambert preferred to stay as we were and have more to spend in the summer, I don't know, but it really struck me as an absolutely crazy risk to take.
This summer is really important. What we can't do is exclusively throw more of the same younger players into the mix. I still firmly believe we need more experience in the side - how much have we missed Stan in this sense?
I do think, though, that Lambert will be imagining he can shift Given, Ireland, Bent, and Dunne from the wage bill and make no discernible difference to the strength of the squad, given how little they contribute.
We need to progress next season. I am not expecting top six finishes, and won't judge him entirely on where we finish in the league, but we can't have another season like this - the pain of this year has got to prove to be worth something, ultimately.
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This summer is really important. What we can't do is exclusively throw more of the same younger players into the mix. I still firmly believe we need more experience in the side - how much have we missed Stan in this sense?
Fully agree.
The right mix of experience to go with what we already have is the difference between mid table and a Euro push, IMO.
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This summer is really important. What we can't do is exclusively throw more of the same younger players into the mix. I still firmly believe we need more experience in the side - how much have we missed Stan in this sense?
Fully agree.
The right mix of experience to go with what we already have is the difference between mid table and a Euro push, IMO.
Totally agree .
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I wouldn't mind some more young players as long as they can improve the first X1. In the main,the youngsters have done fine,Benteke ,Weimann,Lowton ,Westwood ,Delph and the relatively inexperienced Guzan. As mentioned in other posts the expensive experienced players have contributed very little,for one reason or another.
Plus ,these youngsters have now played in some high pressure games.
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The main reason I've consistently backed him is I saw early on he was trying to do all the right things but things weren't really working out for him. I was in a similar position with my job where I'd taken on a role that was demanding and probably a little over my ability at the time management-wise, but I knew if I kept on with it and I had the support of my managers I knew things would come good and they did. And they have for him too.
It's not nice slaving your guts out and trying to do the right thing with all the doubters bringing you down and when you know you can pull it off but you know you need some support from your staff and your bosses. My job's as far removed from football as most others, but the situation of scrapping to survive and retain support from your guys, the managers and your clients is similar in some respects.
I even had a fair bit of sympathy for Mcleish in a way as he was in a similar position - I backed him til right near the end as he seemed like he was trying and cared, but he just wasn't right for villa. I still respect him as he always conducted himself with dignity and had respect for the club and the supporters on the whole. Couldn't give a toss where he came from. the main difference was he just wanted to survive, whereas lambert looks like he has a plan and wants to be successful.
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However we got here, one thing I know is that I cannot wait for the summer to arrive, for the changes and improvements to occur, and for the next season to start. I haven't been this excited about a Villa side's potential in a long time. If we can keep a hold of all of the key components of this current side, and add intelligently then we will be so much further ahead. The experiences of this season, I believe are not lost on the manager or the board. That we did fly close to the sun, and that once the wasted wages are removed from the club, the future is truly positive.
We've all doubted Lambert to some degree this season. But we have a manager, a squad and importantly a club that we can all really rally behind again. Haven't said or thought that in a while.
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Is Lerner still a penny pinching, clueless, stay-away chairman or is he ok now?
I think he got lucky when a manager who he couldn't afford to sack managed to pull one out of the hat. More by luck than Lerner's design?
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However we got here, one thing I know is that I cannot wait for the summer to arrive, for the changes and improvements to occur, and for the next season to start. I haven't been this excited about a Villa side's potential in a long time. If we can keep a hold of all of the key components of this current side, and add intelligently then we will be so much further ahead. The experiences of this season, I believe are not lost on the manager or the board. That we did fly close to the sun, and that once the wasted wages are removed from the club, the future is truly positive.
We've all doubted Lambert to some degree this season. But we have a manager, a squad and importantly a club that we can all really rally behind again. Haven't said or thought that in a while.
Crikey tv- relax and enjoy the ashes 1st mate , next season can wait till August - we need a break ! :)
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Who knows mate. He keeps his cards close to his chest, he's made some poor decisions, but he's never been a knee-jerk chairman and seemingly has stumped up the cash for signings when required.
I'd like him to be more visible and accessible, but rather him than a whelan or an Ashley or the qpr lot or many other premier league chairman really
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Eastie- I'll only enjoy the ashes after they're retained... Twice this year. Whole new level of stress!!
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Eastie- I'll only enjoy the ashes after they're retained... Twice this year. Whole new level of stress!!
Come on robbo- you surely should know how bad the Aussies are this year - lambs to the slaughter!
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Never ever write them off mate. Wigan could probably field a side of 11 Aussie cricketers and they'd stay up somehow.
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There was a post earlier about how we should never be in this position again. We will of course. The question is whether we will be back to having 12/15 years before it happens or stay with 4 or 5.
We haven't solved anything yet, we've made a much better than expected start to re-building. We have a very capable first 11, but it doesn't go much further than that. The subs bench still looks pallid to say the least, let alone the other 5 or 6 needed to make up a rounded squad.
A quick look at the squad list shows 16 players give or take who have no real future at the club, plus Stan Petrov. We're going to need a transfer window just like the last one, we're not yet in the position of topping up the squad with proven experience.
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I'm relieved that we are finally on the brink of safety, not just for the obvious reasons, but also because it means we get to keep Lambert and see how the project develops. I will admit to thinking it might have been time for him to get the push when the January window passed and we'd failed to bring in any experienced cover, but I'd have been gutted, even so. Like everyone else, I'm desperate to see him do well, because we all know exactly what he's trying to do - and if he can pull it off, the sky's the limit.
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I'm relieved that we are finally on the brink of safety, not just for the obvious reasons, but also because it means we get to keep Lambert and see how the project develops. I will admit to thinking it might have been time for him to get the push when the January window passed and we'd failed to bring in any experienced cover, but I'd have been gutted, even so. Like everyone else, I'm desperate to see him do well, because we all know exactly what he's trying to do - and if he can pull it off, the sky's the limit.
Not sure the sky's the limit- i think a lot will depend on randy and whether he will be prepared to rebuff large bids for our star players - if so then it could be a very interesting ride.
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I want Lambert to be as longlived as possible. The last time we had a manager who got past 4 years was the great Ron Saunders and he only did 8. And left at the apogee...
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Just dont sign him on an eight year contract. That has not worked out well in the North East. Although you probably couldnt get farther apart from I-Love-Myself-Pardew to Lambert
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Easiest question I have answered in a long tme
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Our new article below talks about the possibility of Lambert building a legacy at Villa. It piggy-backed onto the Ferguson retirement thing (hey, got to get the readers!) but I think the argument holds: for the first time in a while, we have a man at the helm with a plan and not just someone earning a wage.
"Lambert's biggest success was bringing a new footballing philosophy to a moribund club...last season, every pundit begged for us to be relegated. This time, most of them are keeping fingers crossed we stay up."
Read more: http://pickourteam.com/premierleague/news/09-05-2013/lambert-following-fergie-philosophy/829775#comment#ixzz2Sml2gJbT
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I was wondering why one person wanted him out when we seem to be heading in the right direction. Also, who he would like instead?
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There was a post earlier about how we should never be in this position again. We will of course. The question is whether we will be back to having 12/15 years before it happens or stay with 4 or 5.
We haven't solved anything yet, we've made a much better than expected start to re-building. We have a very capable first 11, but it doesn't go much further than that. The subs bench still looks pallid to say the least, let alone the other 5 or 6 needed to make up a rounded squad.
A quick look at the squad list shows 16 players give or take who have no real future at the club, plus Stan Petrov. We're going to need a transfer window just like the last one, we're not yet in the position of topping up the squad with proven experience.
This is a really good point Steve, we are still way off having a squad you look at and think if x is out y can just slot in and we won't be buggered.
16 players seems high though? I can think of probably 8 or 9 who we need to replace. The good thing is that we might get a little bit of money in, and save a massive amount on wages this summer, allowing Lambert maybe to go for a couple in the Benteke price range, together with another 4-5 in the Lowton/ Westwood mould. He has a history of freshening his squad significantly every summer I think, so fully expect 5-6 players at least this summer with a similar number going out the door. I hope we can use the loan system too with our fringe, but not to be written off players!
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There was a post earlier about how we should never be in this position again. We will of course. The question is whether we will be back to having 12/15 years before it happens or stay with 4 or 5.
We haven't solved anything yet, we've made a much better than expected start to re-building. We have a very capable first 11, but it doesn't go much further than that. The subs bench still looks pallid to say the least, let alone the other 5 or 6 needed to make up a rounded squad.
A quick look at the squad list shows 16 players give or take who have no real future at the club, plus Stan Petrov. We're going to need a transfer window just like the last one, we're not yet in the position of topping up the squad with proven experience.
This is a really good point Steve, we are still way off having a squad you look at and think if x is out y can just slot in and we won't be buggered.
16 players seems high though? I can think of probably 8 or 9 who we need to replace. The good thing is that we might get a little bit of money in, and save a massive amount on wages this summer, allowing Lambert maybe to go for a couple in the Benteke price range, together with another 4-5 in the Lowton/ Westwood mould. He has a history of freshening his squad significantly every summer I think, so fully expect 5-6 players at least this summer with a similar number going out the door. I hope we can use the loan system too with our fringe, but not to be written off players!
Well, there's some obvious ones like Dunne and then some that will split opinion a bit, like KEA or Bannan. Then there's others like Lichaj who might be worth keeping as squad filler.
As I've said before, the more use we can get out of what we have the less players we need in the summer, which means our funds can be concentrated on some real quality. If persevering with the likes of Holman means we get 3 £10m players as opposed to 10 £3m players, then we should.
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Is the current 96.6% 'in', the biggest margin of favour so far?
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...
16 players seems high though? I can think of probably 8 or 9 who we need to replace. The good thing is that we might get a little bit of money in, and save a massive amount on wages this summer, allowing Lambert maybe to go for a couple in the Benteke price range, together with another 4-5 in the Lowton/ Westwood mould. He has a history of freshening his squad significantly every summer I think, so fully expect 5-6 players at least this summer with a similar number going out the door. I hope we can use the loan system too with our fringe, but not to be written off players!
The 16 I had were Given, Marshall*, Hutton, Lichaj*, Dunne*, Stevens
Bannan, Ireland, Nzogbia, Dawkins*, Albrighton, Holman, Makoun, Herd
Bent, Delfouneso
Not just players that need to depart this summer, but also those who have no long term future at the club and can reasonably be expected to go over the next two years. I dare say not all will be replaced, but it still struck me as a large number and a lot of recruitment.
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It's interesting that now results have improved, those vehemently calling for his head have gone quiet.
Thankfully, sense seems to be prevailing.
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Is the current 96.6% 'in', the biggest margin of favour so far?
Yes.
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Same as last time, still keep him even if we go down.
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It's interesting that now results have improved, those vehemently calling for his head have gone quiet.
Thankfully, sense seems to be prevailing.
To be fair to those who were against him, there was plenty of ammo for them earlier in the season. It does show how patience can be a virtue.
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It's interesting that now results have improved, those vehemently calling for his head have gone quiet.
Thankfully, sense seems to be prevailing.
To be fair to those who were against him, there was plenty of ammo for them earlier in the season. It does show how patience can be a virtue.
yes lots of ammo,
but it was all stats and figures, every post was worst this record that, lets get rid, bring in Allardyce to save our soul's
anyone that knows anything about the game could see what was Lambert was trying to do, it wasn't easy but there was a plan,
football isn't just about stats, its about what you can see, what you can feel is happening, if you don't get it you never will, football is the beautiful game not a balance sheet, I know at times it was anything but beautiful, but it was trying to be,
bigger picture and all that, some can see it some cant, that's probably not going to change
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I read yesterday or the day before that RL is flying in next week to "hand Paul Lambert a summer transfer kitty". I'm not sure I like the word kitty. In reports like this I always like to see the word 'warchest' used.
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We have to bear in mind that he is still a very inexperienced manager at top flight level. He has made mistakes this season, but he has seemed to have settled on a formation and style of play that is getting results. I think there are certain issues that need addressing over the summer (the defence being the main one), but PL has built a pretty solid base with whichto work from. The addition of a couple quality players in certain positions could really push this team on next season.
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It's interesting that now results have improved, those vehemently calling for his head have gone quiet.
Thankfully, sense seems to be prevailing.
To be fair, although I spent ages arguing for Lambert to be kept, I entirely understand why people were disillusioned with him.
I just thought they were being extremely premature and, in some cases, panicking and talking up replacement options which would have taken us absolutely nowhere.
Having said that, though, if you were a dispassionate observer and looked at some of Lambert's results, it'd be hard not to think he deserved to be under great pressure for his job.
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It's interesting that now results have improved, those vehemently calling for his head have gone quiet.
Thankfully, sense seems to be prevailing.
To be fair, although I spent ages arguing for Lambert to be kept, I entirely understand why people were disillusioned with him.
I just thought they were being extremely premature and, in some cases, panicking and talking up replacement options which would have taken us absolutely nowhere.
Having said that, though, if you were a dispassionate observer and looked at some of Lambert's results, it'd be hard not to think he deserved to be under great pressure for his job.
I have to agree with this. I came very close to urging Randy to hit the panic button after the Bradford debacle, but deep down I knew it wasn't the right thing to do.
I think the difference with Lambert compared to someone like McLeish, is the genuine willing him to do well. I'm not saying fans wanted McLeish to do badly, but we knew from the get go that this was a guy that wouldn't take us anywhere.
With Lambert there is the sense that while we may have a tough season or two ahead of us and it might end up going badly, we might also be on to something a bit special.
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I think the big difference between McLeish and Lambert is people could see what Lambert was trying to do. He might have failed for much of the season, but people at least knew he was trying to do good things with us.
With McLeish there was none of this, he was just doing what he always does, and people didn't like it.
Last season was honestly the most depressing season I can remember, and I can remember the last time we actually went down. It was just horrible, football with every drop of fun drained out of it.
If i wasn't a Villa fan, last season we were exactly the sort of team I would have been praying to see go down.
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I think the big difference between McLeish and Lambert is people could see what Lambert was trying to do. He might have failed for much of the season, but people at least knew he was trying to do good things with us.
With McLeish there was none of this, he was just doing what he always does, and people didn't like it.
Last season was honestly the most depressing season I can remember, and I can remember the last time we actually went down. It was just horrible, football with every drop of fun drained out of it.
If i wasn't a Villa fan, last season we were exactly the sort of team I would have been praying to see go down.
Spot on.
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Sailing in with a war chest, would indicate it's too heavy to fly.
Honestly though, I don't think we need to spend too big this summer,except on maybe enhancing the contracts of those that have stood up for us this season. I'd prefer to see money spent on buying out the contracts of the dead wood - we all know who they are.
Plus one or two quality signings to strengthen our weakest positions and I reckon we'll be set fair to climb the table next season and challenge for a top 6 spot.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/can-paul-lambert-build-dynasty-1878577
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I think the big difference between McLeish and Lambert is people could see what Lambert was trying to do. He might have failed for much of the season, but people at least knew he was trying to do good things with us.
With McLeish there was none of this, he was just doing what he always does, and people didn't like it.
Last season was honestly the most depressing season I can remember, and I can remember the last time we actually went down. It was just horrible, football with every drop of fun drained out of it.
If i wasn't a Villa fan, last season we were exactly the sort of team I would have been praying to see go down.
Spot on.
Agreed every game was a depressing event with no hope.
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For me the worst game of last season was actually the last against Norwich. We were finally safe. Nothing left to play for, no pressure.
You'd have thought, finally, McLeish would be a bit adventurous but literally, the only attack minded players we had on the pitch were Ireland and Gabby. We were just godawful. We still looked like we were playing in the vein hope of sneaking a lucky 1-0. By the time we conceded the first we just looked like we'd given up. It was an embarrassing way to end an embarrassing season. Ultimately it felt like a particularly backhanded parting shot by McLeish, just to rub in his hideous "style" of football.
Times are far, far better now.
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For me the worst game of last season was actually the last against Norwich. We were finally safe. Nothing left to play for, no pressure.
You'd have thought, finally, McLeish would be a bit adventurous but literally, the only attack minded players we had on the pitch were Ireland and Gabby. We were just godawful. We still looked like we were playing in the vein hope of sneaking a lucky 1-0. By the time we conceded the first we just looked like we'd given up. It was an embarrassing way to end an embarrassing season. Ultimately it felt like a particularly backhanded parting shot by McLeish, just to rub in his hideous "style" of football.
Times are far, far better now.
I think it was the players tryinjg to get him sacked.
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For me the worst game of last season was actually the last against Norwich. We were finally safe. Nothing left to play for, no pressure.
You'd have thought, finally, McLeish would be a bit adventurous but literally, the only attack minded players we had on the pitch were Ireland and Gabby. We were just godawful. We still looked like we were playing in the vein hope of sneaking a lucky 1-0. By the time we conceded the first we just looked like we'd given up. It was an embarrassing way to end an embarrassing season. Ultimately it felt like a particularly backhanded parting shot by McLeish, just to rub in his hideous "style" of football.
Times are far, far better now.
I remember a tweet from Matt Kendrick at the time that went something like "Entire Villa team come back to defend a corner - they are successful, still only 2-0 down".
I remember that day quite fondly because you knew that that things really had past the point of no return. And Mcleish was sacked the next day.
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I don't think he actually knows how to play any other way and everyone knew he was a dead man walking anyway.
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anyone that knows anything about the game could see what was Lambert was trying to do, it wasn't easy but there was a plan,
football isn't just about stats, its about what you can see, what you can feel is happening, if you don't get it you never will, football is the beautiful game not a balance sheet, I know at times it was anything but beautiful, but it was trying to be,
bigger picture and all that, some can see it some cant, that's probably not going to change
I can understand you being desperate to gloat, John e, but that's absolute bullshit.
If you reckon you could see any plan in our games against Bradford ( first leg especially) or if you could feel something happening when we were 8-0 down at Stamford Bridge or if you could sense the bigger picture when we went through that terrible run between the Chelsea and Millwall games then you're either bullshitting or some kind of football genius.
I watched those games with people who know their football ( take a bow, Pat McMahon, who's word on Villa I'd take over yours any day) and between us we couldn't see what Lambert was trying to do. Half the time we couldn't even work out what formation he was trying to play. He's turned the oil tanker round at last and things are looking much brighter now.
I'm really glad you've been proved right - and credit to your optimism when others were getting very worried - but I don't put it down to you having any more football nouse than anyone else on here.
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If you judged based on those results between Chelsea away and Newcastle at home, then the only conclusion that could be drawn was he should go. But to do so means you ignored, or more accurately dismissed, what came before like, the cup wins at Norwich and Man City, Anfield and home to Swansea. Plus other games we played well in and didn't win, like Newcastle away.
I agree it's not a matter of football nouse, but it is a matter of not overreacting to a set of results over a limited period of games.
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My opinion has changed twice this season; firstly from a wait and see approach, to being completely disillusioned and then back again.
Post Wigan, I found a little bit of solace in Swansea away, a game where we could easily have been 5 or 6 down before Andi equalised and in the end we through it away at the death. But the results in January were, Swansea and Albion away apart, awful. I was giving the players dogs abuse down at the Den after the final whistle and I genuinely though we were down; everything was just compounding, with one humiliation after another.
What changed for me was the second 45 against Newcastle and it was then that I began to believe in the side and Lambert again. I wrote down on my sticky note at work where we would get points from; I predicted 41 in total and I expect to be wrong on that, with us picking up at least another 4.
I was very confident after Newcastle and think we have gone from an unsure and meandering side, to a bloody awful one, to the one we see now; full of defensive naivety, but absolutely lethal going forwards.
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Just as it was premature to call for his head in January, it's a little premature to be talking about him as the next Fergie now. The last time I looked, we were still not mathematically safe with two games remaining. Having said that, he's done very well in beating some dreadful teams at the bottom end of the table recently. We'll have a much better idea if what Lambert is trying to do is working by next January.
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My opinion has changed twice this season; firstly from a wait and see approach, to being completely disillusioned and then back again.
Post Wigan, I found a little bit of solace in Swansea away, a game where we could easily have been 5 or 6 down before Andi equalised and in the end we through it away at the death. But the results in January were, Swansea and Albion away apart, awful. I was giving the players dogs abuse down at the Den after the final whistle and I genuinely though we were down; everything was just compounding, with one humiliation after another.
What changed for me was the second 45 against Newcastle and it was then that I began to believe in the side and Lambert again. I wrote down on my sticky note at work where we would get points from; I predicted 41 in total and I expect to be wrong on that, with us picking up at least another 4.
I was very confident after Newcastle and think we have gone from an unsure and meandering side, to a bloody awful one, to the one we see now; full of defensive naivety, but absolutely lethal going forwards.
I think a lot of people will share this opinion Ads and the range of emotions that you have experienced.
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I was giving the players dogs abuse down at the Den after the final whistle and I genuinely though we were down
Probably my low point of the season. Lambert was within a whisker of "losing the fans" that night. That and the 2 hours it took me after the final whistle to make the 2 mile journey back home.
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I was giving the players dogs abuse down at the Den after the final whistle and I genuinely though we were down
Probably my low point of the season. Lambert was within a whisker of "losing the fans" that night. That and the 2 hours it took me after the final whistle to make the 2 mile journey back home.
see, as disappointed as I have been, and can only speak for myself I don't think he ever came close to losing the majority of the fans. All of us have been angry at various times, but most when they calmed down didn't want him actually fired. We wanted improvement and I'm delighted that cooler heads allowed that to happen and we didn't go all Sunderland or Reading on the manager and dismantle the project.
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My opinion has changed twice this season; firstly from a wait and see approach, to being completely disillusioned and then back again.
Post Wigan, I found a little bit of solace in Swansea away, a game where we could easily have been 5 or 6 down before Andi equalised and in the end we through it away at the death. But the results in January were, Swansea and Albion away apart, awful. I was giving the players dogs abuse down at the Den after the final whistle and I genuinely though we were down; everything was just compounding, with one humiliation after another.
What changed for me was the second 45 against Newcastle and it was then that I began to believe in the side and Lambert again. I wrote down on my sticky note at work where we would get points from; I predicted 41 in total and I expect to be wrong on that, with us picking up at least another 4.
I was very confident after Newcastle and think we have gone from an unsure and meandering side, to a bloody awful one, to the one we see now; full of defensive naivety, but absolutely lethal going forwards.
I think a lot of people will share this opinion Ads and the range of emotions that you have experienced.
Yes , I agree with that , its been a rollercoaster of a season but the future is looking brighter - i expect a much better season next year.
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I read yesterday or the day before that RL is flying in next week to "hand Paul Lambert a summer transfer kitty". I'm not sure I like the word kitty. In reports like this I always like to see the word 'warchest' used.
It will be a kitty because it goes against Lambert's principles to have a transfer cat. My guess is that it won't be a very experienced kitty either.
(http://api.ning.com/files/DdUx35FtKnswIxPfwCtgd*3n*R4X1XTqwqLuWjoiH5zHFcqX7ZrdusyC7uXi3Iygjv83CwS35PUMsRLXE4MCTf2vmrgP5FXU/cat_writing.jpg)
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Lambert's here for the long haul by the sounds of it:
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3174139,00.html?
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What did the poll say at the end of January? Can anyone remember?
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What did the poll say at the end of January? Can anyone remember?
After the millwall game it just slipped over 50% out for a day or so I think it was 51 to 49 out and since then lambert has steadily turned things around - that was the only time the majority was in favour of out and lasted less than 2 days i believe.
On page 191 it was 200 in and 200 out in votes and villan 1975 voted out which was the 1st time lambert lost the majority vote .
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Sailing in with a war chest, would indicate it's too heavy to fly.
Honestly though, I don't think we need to spend too big this summer,except on maybe enhancing the contracts of those that have stood up for us this season. I'd prefer to see money spent on buying out the contracts of the dead wood - we all know who they are.
Plus one or two quality signings to strengthen our weakest positions and I reckon we'll be set fair to climb the table next season and challenge for a top 6 spot.
My view as well. It would be harsh to bring in direct replacements for Delph, Westwood and Sylla IMO. I also don't want to see too much trraffic in the way of Gardner, and I also think KEA is better than what he's showed so far. So that's midfield sorted.
The present front three will be persevered with and rightly so.
One really good centre-half to partner and lead Vlaar as he gets more used to the league is the one signing I feel we really have to make, but I feel everything else he does will involve tinkering round the depth and edges of the squad.
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My opinion has changed twice this season; firstly from a wait and see approach, to being completely disillusioned and then back again.
Post Wigan, I found a little bit of solace in Swansea away, a game where we could easily have been 5 or 6 down before Andi equalised and in the end we through it away at the death. But the results in January were, Swansea and Albion away apart, awful. I was giving the players dogs abuse down at the Den after the final whistle and I genuinely though we were down; everything was just compounding, with one humiliation after another.
What changed for me was the second 45 against Newcastle and it was then that I began to believe in the side and Lambert again. I wrote down on my sticky note at work where we would get points from; I predicted 41 in total and I expect to be wrong on that, with us picking up at least another 4.
I was very confident after Newcastle and think we have gone from an unsure and meandering side, to a bloody awful one, to the one we see now; full of defensive naivety, but absolutely lethal going forwards.
Cough...splutter.....I`m about to choke on my words here.........I kind of agree with you on this Ads :)
I was pleased with the appointment and was willing to be patient, however the results in December put paid to that - add in the cup defeats and lack of recruitment before the transfer deadline I was doubting my earlier enthuisiasm. The spate of decent results have been an improvement however we are still not safe - although it would take a massive turn of fortune for Wigan to save themselves - although they have done it previously.
I was not going to renew next season (I said that last season but Mrs VCTM renewed whilst I was lying in a hospital bed recovering from an operation - just to cheer me up !! yeh right !!) but I sense that we can be a relatively strong force if we buy wisely pre-season - so maybe come July I will pick up the phone to the ticket office.
A result tomorrow would be a massive boost followed by a free flowing attacking performance at Wigan to finish the season with a flourish.
Hopefully - We go again.
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Just think Clive, you can utter repeatedly "we go again" to all your Evertonian mates next season when they have a similar season to what we've had this season.
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Just think Clive, you can utter repeatedly "we go again" to all your Evertonian mates next season when they have a similar season to what we've had this season.
Everton will take a bit of time to get to what we have had this season, they will still have some excellent pros that will carry them to top 10 next couple of years I think.
As for Lambert, I am glad he is admitting this season has been a huge learning curve. I am also glad he had the guts, when most would not to have decided on a course with Karsa and Culverhouse and stuck to it without bailing out half way through, taking that pain and those hits was entirely needed to get the ship right.
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But you still think we are going down dont you ozzyJim?
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But you still think we are going down dont you ozzyJim?
No, as I said many, many times when getting stick for saying before wigan were beaten, if Wigan lost to Swansea we are sorted. Which we are, and had we gone, as I have also said many times, I would have wanted Lambert to stay and continue to re shape the club!
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Fair enough but to say we were still favourites last weekend to go down was puzzling. Never mind, I think things are looking up for our club. I agree even if we went down I would keep Lambert as he has brought a bit of hope for the future IMHO
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Not sure if this is the right place but...Molde managed by OGS, who was widely tipped for us last season and had a lot of popular support on here, are bottom of their table having taken five points from the last eight games.
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Fair enough but to say we were still favourites last weekend to go down was puzzling. Never mind, I think things are looking up for our club. I agree even if we went down I would keep Lambert as he has brought a bit of hope for the future IMHO
I did not say we were favourites either. I said I thought we were most likely given the fixtures and the likelihood of Wigan to beat Swansea. Thankfully I was wrong!
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Any idea why he didn't bring anyone on yesterday.
Surely after the second goal? Everyone knew with the Terry injury they would be 6 minutes minimum and we got 7 so there was practically 10 minutes left from the moment Lampard scored. Hazard also went off injured soon after so Chelsea played the whole of injury time with 8 outfield players.
Don't understand why N'zogbia and Bent didn't make appearences especially as many of our players were out on their feet for the last 15 minutes.
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If he keeps us up then he's probably earned the right to start next season. However if we're round the bottom come Christmas and he hasn't learnt from the myriad mistakes he's made this season then i think its goodbye. Yes he's bought some good players,but another season like this one and they'll be off and as we've seen before big transfer fee's may make Lerner happy, but they've done precious little for our league position. The team may be promising at times but you don't get to the last week of the season in danger of relegation if things are going well.
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Lambert has made many mistakes this season but the one that has cost us at least ten points is the lack of experience on the pitch at vital stages of the game.
This is balanced out by the enthusiasm and positivity of youth, which will always buy a manager time.
But quality, experience right down the middle of the pitch is badly needed, as I said before on here, imagine being able to bring a Petrov off the bench for example yesterday before Chelsea got back in the game, or a Withe to hold the ball and get free kicks to take the pressure off without harming the development of some of these young players.
Will Lambert buy this sort of player? I'm not so sure, but I think this holds the key to whether he should stay, if Lerner looses the purse strings and allows him to purchase these players who will command higher fees we could have a squad (if we survive) capable of progress next season.
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Good point. Experience is a must this summer. He's been unlucky with Petrov and i presume he thought Dunne would be available to the defence as well at some point, but a few older heads would have been useful if only to take some of the kids out of the firing line during the disasterous spell. You could argue that some of the kids finding their feet as the season has progressed is entirely because there was no-one else to turn to, but i'd still like a few more in the 25-28 bracket coming in possibly from abroad. I suppose Lambert could point to the likes of Ireland and say experience is useless without motivation.
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Lambert has made many mistakes this season but the one that has cost us at least ten points is the lack of experience on the pitch at vital stages of the game.
This is balanced out by the enthusiasm and positivity of youth, which will always buy a manager time.
But quality, experience right down the middle of the pitch is badly needed, as I said before on here, imagine being able to bring a Petrov off the bench for example yesterday before Chelsea got back in the game, or a Withe to hold the ball and get free kicks to take the pressure off without harming the development of some of these young players.
Will Lambert buy this sort of player? I'm not so sure, but I think this holds the key to whether he should stay, if Lerner looses the purse strings and allows him to purchase these players who will command higher fees we could have a squad (if we survive) capable of progress next season.
Lambert has made mistakes but I back him because of his track record in management and his present transfer policy which offers Villa a chance of sustainable progress.
We already have a squad that is not just capable of progress next season but will progress.
The young midfield of Delph,Sylla and Westwood more than competed against a world class Chelsea midfield and there are goals in the front 3. Lowton and Bennett are improving and Guzan,another Lambert signing,has been solid.
A Withe style player ? Grant Holt,Crouch ,Kevin Davies or a very expensive Carroll ? Or why not sign a young Belgian from Genk who can hold the ball up but also has skills and pace that Withe could only dream of ?
An experienced equivalent of Petrov is there one who is or was available if so Man U and other leading clubs would be in the hunt.
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I back Lambert too, I didn't say I didn't its just sometimes in a football match you have to do the 'ugly' things to win... slow a game down by enticing a foul, standing over the ball at a free kick, or even kicking the ball into the corner.
I'm a big fan and admirer of Lambert's reliance on youth, but it's experienced players that will normally do those 'ugly' things and the difference in the Premier League is such fine margins, these are the things that matter a lot in the end.
I've seen Villa managers like Tommy Doc, Graham Turner etc., rely totally on youth before and as I said it works for a short time then you need to augment with quality experience...a balance.
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I back Lambert too, I didn't say I didn't its just sometimes in a football match you have to do the 'ugly' things to win... slow a game down by enticing a foul, standing over the ball at a free kick, or even kicking the ball into the corner.
I'm a big fan and admirer of Lambert's reliance on youth, but it's experienced players that will normally do those 'ugly' things and the difference in the Premier League is such fine margins, these are the things that matter a lot in the end.
I've seen Villa managers like Tommy Doc, Graham Turner etc., rely totally on youth before and as I said it works for a short time then you need to augment with quality experience...a balance.
Nothing to disagree with but,unfortunately,MON with an incredible lack of control from the executives put the club in a dire financial position.Subsequent transfer dealings by Houllier and TSM worsened our league position and the board's response has been to go from feast to famine. Villa's season has again been a tightrope walk but we now seem to be heading upwards. Lambert has also bought experience but from Holland rather than in the expensive Prem League.
I also remember managers like Crowe who rarely ventured outside experienced players from other reserve teams and after 4 years left us 14th in Div 2.
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I back Lambert too, I didn't say I didn't its just sometimes in a football match you have to do the 'ugly' things to win... slow a game down by enticing a foul, standing over the ball at a free kick, or even kicking the ball into the corner.
I'm a big fan and admirer of Lambert's reliance on youth, but it's experienced players that will normally do those 'ugly' things and the difference in the Premier League is such fine margins, these are the things that matter a lot in the end.
I've seen Villa managers like Tommy Doc, Graham Turner etc., rely totally on youth before and as I said it works for a short time then you need to augment with quality experience...a balance.
Nothing to disagree with but,unfortunately,MON with an incredible lack of control from the executives put the club in a dire financial position.Subsequent transfer dealings by Houllier and TSM worsened our league position and the board's response has been to go from feast to famine. Villa's season has again been a tightrope walk but we now seem to be heading upwards. Lambert has also bought experience but from Holland rather than in the expensive Prem League.
I also remember managers like Crowe who rarely ventured outside experienced players from other reserve teams and after 4 years left us 14th in Div 2.
Surely to God you're not criticising Vic Crowe?
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I don't know about God,but Crowe,sadly,being an ex-Villa player and seemingly good bloke,was not a good manager.
His best 2 buys ,Nicholl and Graydon,came from outside Div 1.Most were experienced players from reserve teams.Lochhead,Cumbes,Ross ,Robson,Beard,Vowden,,Hughes,Gibson,Evans and possibly Hockey. Some of these were ok but a fair bit of money spent with little sell on value,redolent of MON.
A manager who couldn't stop us going into Div 3 and couldn't finish above Halifax ,let alone come second.And in his last season went 12 games without a win in Div 2.
In his favour,a League Cup Final.(being Div 3 champs is not a honour for the Villa) and success in the US with Portland .There is a great article about this in an issue of 'When Saturday Comes'
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On your point of Ian Ross, in my opinion; although a reserve player in the best team in the country at that time. Ross was the catalyst for what has gone on since. Ian Ross was a utility player for Liverpool who was always what we old-timers called first reserve. It took a lot of persuasion to tempt Ross to step down two divisions and once it was seen that a player of his calibre, who would have walked into any other first division team of the day was prepared to put his faith and reputation in us, then it made it so much easier to tempt a better quality of player to Villa Park. For that we have Vic Crowe to thank.
I'm sorry, but I can't accept that Vic Crowe was a bad manager. Vic began the real revolution because under him; we began winning again.
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I don't know about God,but Crowe,sadly,being an ex-Villa player and seemingly good bloke,was not a good manager.
His best 2 buys ,Nicholl and Graydon,came from outside Div 1.Most were experienced players from reserve teams.Lochhead,Cumbes,Ross ,Robson,Beard,Vowden,,Hughes,Gibson,Evans and possibly Hockey. Some of these were ok but a fair bit of money spent with little sell on value,redolent of MON.
A manager who couldn't stop us going into Div 3 and couldn't finish above Halifax ,let alone come second.And in his last season went 12 games without a win in Div 2.
In his favour,a League Cup Final.(being Div 3 champs is not a honour for the Villa) and success in the US with Portland .There is a great article about this in an issue of 'When Saturday Comes'
I don't know if you were around then but if you were then I find it very hard to believe anyone who was a witness to what he inherited and the legacy he left behind will ever criticise Vic Crowe. There's a reason why we bought those players - they were what was needed at the time and the best that we, as a third division club, could attract. He took over a team that was headed to division three, almost avoided relegation, turned the club round, signed players when we were in the third division who went on to give good service in the first, provided the greatest night in Villa Park history, took a third division team to a cup final, kick-started the youth policy that provided Little, Gidman and four European Cup winners and had the best points per game record of any Villa manager ever.
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The youth team policy was started with Tommy Doc who brought back 30,000 gates. Vic Crowe inherited a badly managed squad that should have avoided the drop.Fortunately,the fans remained loyal,average attendance of 26,000 for a n unsuccessful campaign in Div 3.
Support which got mentioned regularly in the media and Shankly took up the theme of Villa being successful in the future.This would have been a factor in players moving down divisions.
Clough offered his services to Villa telling Ellis that they wouldn't win anything under Crowe,apart from Div 3 title he was right.
Brian Little had a phrase about what it takes to win a game of football.That quality seemed to elude Crowe,going on runs where we struggled to score let alone win. A quality that Saunders had in abundance. Rioch,such a gifted player and supreme striker of a ball,only scored 34 league goals for us in 5 seasons compared to a final tally of 160.
The transformation of Chico a season after Crowe's departure and similarly with Little and Leonard,maturity would help admittedly,also tells a tale.
We look back in fondness to those years because we felt Villa were on a journey back to the Promised Land after years in the wilderness. The optimism was lit by Docherty ,the fans and the board ! carried it on. I think that optimism would have faded if Crowe had continued another year. 29000 for the first home game in Div 3, 23000 for Saunders first home game v Norwich.
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It's a bit difficult to win anything else when you're in the third division and did Brian Clough really "offer his services"? Yours is the first reference I've ever seen to it anywhere. It's odd that the art of winning apparently eluded Crowe, when as I said earlier he had the best record of any Villa manager and took us to our highest points total. Incidentally, Bruce Rioch didn't score 160 league goals, he scored 133. Around a quarter of these were for Villa, which isn't surprising as he played around a quarter of his total league games for us. But if you don't want to take my word for it, ask his players what they thought.
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Having read a few books on Cloughy, there are a few mentions of a comment supposedly made to Doug at some point in the early to mid seventies. Whether this was when he was out of work or unhappy at Brighton and a serious offer or at another point when he was at Derby or Forest when he did like to tease other clubs and his own for his own ends has never been made clear.
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It's a bit difficult to win anything else when you're in the third division and did Brian Clough really "offer his services"? Yours is the first reference I've ever seen to it anywhere. It's odd that the art of winning apparently eluded Crowe, when as I said earlier he had the best record of any Villa manager and took us to our highest points total. Incidentally, Bruce Rioch didn't score 160 league goals, he scored 133. Around a quarter of these were for Villa, which isn't surprising as he played around a quarter of his total league games for us. But if you don't want to take my word for it, ask his players what they thought.
I'm sure doug referred to this too- cant recall if in his book or on a forum or if it was in cloughie a book- i think cloughie was told the job was his if he applied for it but he said no way would he apply for a job - so it never happened as doug insisted he apply and clough wanted the job but wouldn't apply as a matter of principle - i will try and find out more on this .
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I've read more than once (can't remember where) that Clough was interested. IIRC it would have been around 1972 or '73. Still, the bloke we did get didn't do too bad as it turns out so we didn't really miss out that much.
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I've read more than once (can't remember where) that Clough was interested. IIRC it would have been around 1972 or '73. Still, the bloke we did get didn't do too bad as it turns out so we didn't really miss out that much.
He was at derby at the time .
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Found this piece in the independant-
Intriguingly, Ellis claimed in his autobiography, Deadly!, that he had twice rejected approaches during the early 1970s by Martin O'Neill's mentor, Brian Clough, to take over as Villa manager. On the last occasion he said he told Clough: "It would never work - there's only one boss at Aston Villa, and that's me."
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The criticism of Vic Crowe is a very odd take on events, and not particularly accurate. I can't speak up for him any better than Dave has.
The club owes him a great debt of gratitude.
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Vic Crowe did a great job at a very difficult time for the club. The players he bought were to get us out of that division and players like George Curtis and Andy Lochead were invaluable in this objective, even short-term measures such as playing Harry Gregory in midfield worked in vtal parts of the season and signing players such as Vowden who scored some vital goals from midfield too.
Don't agree with the Rioch point either as Tommy Doc used him as a striker a first and it was Crowe who moulded him into a tough-tackling midfielder who scored goals, and Crowe also blooded Gidman and Little both at 17 years of age so he wasn't a bad judge there either.
I cannot agree that he was not a good manager, and I don't think you'll find many Villa fans who were around at that time agree either.
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Hard to believe that anyone has harsh words to say about Vic Crowe.
He almost saved us from relegation to division three, brought us back up via a glorious Wembley final and came third in the second division, the very year before third place guaranteed automatic promotion.
Bad timing, Vic!
In the end, the board pulled the plug on funding for transfers, despite Crowe's very good record in this area, leaving Crowe to rely on the good players coming through (Gidman, Little, Cowans, Deehan, McDonald) to bring us up.
The first bad run he had, the board summarily dismissed him for not being 'glamorous' enough.
Ron Saunders was a fine manager but he must have thought all his birthdays had come at once when he saw what he had at Villa -a brilliant defence, several very good players elsewhere and a youth system that was just about to hit full flow.
Oh, and over £250,000 to spend -a fair amount in those days- from the sale of Bruce Rioch to Derby.
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I think if we give Lambert 5 years we could be the greatest team the world has ever seen, Birmingham's own Ferguson. Or in Division 3 (thats League 2 for anyone under 20).
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We already are.
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We can now truly unleash Lambertism and take on all comers without fear or doubt.
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Ah wonderful such a relief, well done Mr Lambert.
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We can now truly unleash Lambertism and take on all comers without fear or doubt.
I think I will always be a bit nervous when it comes to "corners".
Thank bloody almighty for that. It's been one hell of a season with what many of us said would be ups and downs. I don't think anyone expected the downs to be so low.
What Lambert has done since last summer is create a very good basis of a very good team on a shoestring budget. We have witnessed a massive improvement over the last few weeks. Room for improvement is needed, but fair play to him because at our very lowest I thought his plan and ideas were shot.
Well done Lambert and everyone at the club. Looking forward to next season now. Lets hope Benteke stays.
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Such a great night, nice to see the relegation thread locked.
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Given our improved performance since January when we bought no defenders, logic dictates that if we sell all our remaining defenders we will be champions.
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That's a very skewed logic.
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Given our improved performance since January when we bought no defenders, logic dictates that if we sell all our remaining defenders we will be champions.
Bring back the ol' 1-2-7 formation I say
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We can now truly unleash Lambertism and take on all comers without fear or doubt.
Love it. Lambertism.
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For the first time this season I can go to bed dreaming of the undoubted potential we have, and the joys it's going to bring.
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Lambert out.
(of the bottom half of the table next season)
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Lambert out.
Deluded. Lambert has shown in the last 5 games that he understands this league. With such a big club as Aston Villa then this survival is his springboard to greatness, jump on Mike and enjoy the ride. You will eat your Lambert Out words within 3 seasons, just stick with this.
(of the bottom half of the table next season)
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I'd re-read the bit in brackets if I were you Zakk :)
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Lambert out.
Deluded. Lambert has shown in the last 5 games that he understands this league. With such a big club as Aston Villa then this survival is his springboard to greatness, jump on Mike and enjoy the ride. You will eat your Lambert Out words within 3 seasons, just stick with this.
(of the bottom half of the table next season)
Zakk, God bless you, you're hearts in the right place, but that's an epic quote fail plus an epic misreading of a post.
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Lambert out.
Deluded. Lambert has shown in the last 5 games that he understands this league. With such a big club as Aston Villa then this survival is his springboard to greatness, jump on Mike and enjoy the ride. You will eat your Lambert Out words within 3 seasons, just stick with this.
(of the bottom half of the table next season)
Zakk, God bless you, you're hearts in the right place, but that's an epic quote fail plus an epic misreading of a post.
haha did make me chuckle though
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Cloughie as manager with Doug Ellis as his cairman? That pairing would've been sight to see :D.
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I know it's early days, and this seasons been a right sweat, but I've got massive man love going on for Lambert.
I genuinely think he's going to do amazing things with this club.
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For those of us that had huge doubts a few months ago Lambert has given the perfect riposte. Never mind Arsenal, we weren't handed our status on a plate, we had to fight for it.
From a pretty tricky position I always said that should the manager keep us up then he deserved to stay in the post. He has done that and more, with some positive signs for the future.
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I lost 3 bets yesterday (combinations that could have sent us down) as I never win those - I take a bit of responsibility of us staying up then ;)
Best losses I have ever had - Now I can try be a normal human again for at least some months.
Great foundation, huge potential. As Collymore tweeted a few days back "Surprise package next season: Aston Villa"
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I lost 3 bets yesterday (combinations that could have sent us down) as I never win those - I take a bit of responsibility of us staying up then ;)
Best losses I have ever had - Now I can try be a normal human again for at least some months.
Great foundation, huge potential. As Collymore tweeted a few days back "Surprise package next season: Aston Villa"
Same here. I 'lost' £3000. Happy days!
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Lambert has finally sorted the post MON mess, credit to him big style. Some sales in the summer, and some of his ''finds'' and SVC could be correct.
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I know it's early days, and this seasons been a right sweat, but I've got massive man love going on for Lambert.
I genuinely think he's going to do amazing things with this club.
Lambert and Villa are a great fit I think, and next season he'll prove it.
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I enjoyed losing £15 quid on relegation bets last night.
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Lambert was my choice after TSM went and to be honest the only time i had doubts about whether he could hack it here was after the absolute pigs ear he made of the Bradford games.
I like the direction he's taken with the type of player he's brought in, even if not all of them have come off yet and hopefully he'll unearth a few more gems. I still think tactically he's a bit naive at times and there'll be games when we'll wonder what the fuck he's playing at, but overall i'm optimistic for next season.
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I lost 3 bets yesterday (combinations that could have sent us down) as I never win those - I take a bit of responsibility of us staying up then ;)
Best losses I have ever had - Now I can try be a normal human again for at least some months.
Great foundation, huge potential. As Collymore tweeted a few days back "Surprise package next season: Aston Villa"
Edvard - I read your tweet to Collymore last night. Great to see Villans from all four corners of the globe replying to him
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He is still learning and makes mistakes, but he will get better and better. One thing I really admire is the way he has stood by his players.
And a well done to us fans for, on the whole, backing him.
I feel we are a 'Villa Family' once again.
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Address his issues with the teams he's managed and defending and he'll go onto great things, hopefully with us.
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Post mortem wise, his biggest mistake this season were seriously over-estimating the quality of the senior players who to a man were worse than useless - well anyone on here could have told him that last summer.
The other was the bizarre tactics culminating in him destroying the confidence of the players for a good month after the Chelsea game.
Can't fault him for his buys, even the ones who didn't work out deserve another season
Overall 5/10
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Still in two minds about Lambert. On the one hand I admire the fact he stuck to his principles, showed faith in his young squad, and tried to play good attacking football. He even got us defending corners in the last few games. On the other hand he took a huge risk with our future which only just came off, he can't seem to get teams to defend or to avoid making repeated stupid errors, and his tactics and substitutions have been appalling at times. There is a lot of promise there but still some massive flaws, and he needs to do a lot better next season to convince me.
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For all his faults and mistakes, bizarre tactical choices and strange substitutions, I think Lambert is a damn good manager and deserves to continue his project over the next few seasons.
In one season he has...
- Almost completely cleared out the remaining dead wood from the last few years
- Put together a young, talented, hard working side, who will only grow and improve together over time
- Signed the best striker we've had in 15 years
- (Re) signed the best keeper we've had in 15 years
- Lowered the average age and wage of the squad, whilst increasing the value and quality of it
- Sent out a clear message that AVFC is the place to be for young, talented players looking to prove themselves
- Got us playing the best football we've played since the days of BFR
- Achieved all of the above while spending a relative pittance
Finally, the future is bright.
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For all his faults and mistakes, bizarre tactical choices and strange substitutions, I think Lambert is a damn good manager and deserves to continue his project over the next few seasons.
In one season he has...
- Almost completely cleared out the remaining dead wood from the last few years
- Put together a young, talented, hard working side, who will only grow and improve together over time
- Signed the best striker we've had in 15 years
- (Re) signed the best keeper we've had in 15 years
- Lowered the average age and wage of the squad, whilst increasing the value and quality of it
- Sent out a clear message that AVFC is the place to be for young, talented players looking to prove themselves
- Got us playing the best football we've played since the days of BFR
- Achieved all of the above while spending a relative pittance
Finally, the future is bright.
Part of the (more and less) bizarre tactical choices were probably due him trying to find the correct formation and tactics for the players and he got it right in late january/february, took longer than I expected though.
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I am more than happy with what I've seen since Christmas with Lambert. With a couple of older heads in the side, particularly at centre back and I think we'll be ok for next season. Our form in 2013 has been pretty good, generally. I hope Randy gives him the tools to carry on with what Lambert is trying to build.
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Our form over the last 10 games equates to 1.6 points per game. Over a full season that would have us on 60 points and 7th place.
If we beat Wigan we would have a 10 game points average of 1.9. Admittedly that is a bit arbitrary and selective and only includes wins over bottom teams, but 1.9 points per game is top 4 form.
Whatever happened at half time against Newcastle, Lambert has found the magic formula.
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Lambert was my choice after TSM went and to be honest the only time i had doubts about whether he could hack it here was after the absolute pigs ear he made of the Bradford games.
I like the direction he's taken with the type of player he's brought in, even if not all of them have come off yet and hopefully he'll unearth a few more gems. I still think tactically he's a bit naive at times and there'll be games when we'll wonder what the fuck he's playing at, but overall i'm optimistic for next season.
the one thinjg about many of the defeats we've had this season and especially those games versus Bradford, is that if we played them again with the side/formation/confidence we have no, we'd give them a right royal battering. Bradford was bizarre, not just for the manner of the defeats but because everything just seemed so random and confused. He was still figuring so much out and when you throw in a spoonful of desperation it got worse. The good thing is our curve is firmly trending upwards and unlike under TSM we can all see that the sky is clearing. This time last year the mere prospect of the board giving TSM another year scared the shit out of all of us. Thank goodness they dropped the axe quickly and ended up with a manager that will in time prove a superb appointment.
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For all his faults and mistakes, bizarre tactical choices and strange substitutions, I think Lambert is a damn good manager and deserves to continue his project over the next few seasons.
In one season he has...
- Almost completely cleared out the remaining dead wood from the last few years
- Put together a young, talented, hard working side, who will only grow and improve together over time
- Signed the best striker we've had in 15 years
- (Re) signed the best keeper we've had in 15 years
- Lowered the average age and wage of the squad, whilst increasing the value and quality of it
- Sent out a clear message that AVFC is the place to be for young, talented players looking to prove themselves
- Got us playing the best football we've played since the days of BFR
- Achieved all of the above while spending a relative pittance
Finally, the future is bright.
Part of the (more and less) bizarre tactical choices were probably due him trying to find the correct formation and tactics for the players and he got it right in late january/february, took longer than I expected though.
I think we only had about 2 midfielders fit for the 2nd leg against Bradford too, and had to play Ireland through sheer desperation. Not having Westwood in those 2 games was a right bugger.
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Aye the midfield wasn't as strong as we'd like, Ireland, Zog, Bannan and Delph started. Holmann and Carruthers on the bench. We should still have won though.
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Have any of the 5 actually explained their reasoning for wanting him gone?
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For all his faults and mistakes, bizarre tactical choices and strange substitutions, I think Lambert is a damn good manager and deserves to continue his project over the next few seasons.
In one season he has...
- Almost completely cleared out the remaining dead wood from the last few years
- Put together a young, talented, hard working side, who will only grow and improve together over time
- Signed the best striker we've had in 15 years
- (Re) signed the best keeper we've had in 15 years
- Lowered the average age and wage of the squad, whilst increasing the value and quality of it
- Sent out a clear message that AVFC is the place to be for young, talented players looking to prove themselves
- Got us playing the best football we've played since the days of BFR
- Achieved all of the above while spending a relative pittance
Finally, the future is bright.
Part of the (more and less) bizarre tactical choices were probably due him trying to find the correct formation and tactics for the players and he got it right in late january/february, took longer than I expected though.
I think we only had about 2 midfielders fit for the 2nd leg against Bradford too, and had to play Ireland through sheer desperation. Not having Westwood in those 2 games was a right bugger.
I thought at the time, and stand by it, that the biggest mistake was playing Given over Guzan. We knew that Bradford would try and hit us on set pieces, and it was a mistake to play a keeper who stays glued to his line and doesn't come to claim crosses. If we'd have played Guzan I think we would have won, and probably gone on to win the final as we've done quite well against Swansea this season.
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I have to say that after the Bradford debacle, I was one that would not have shed a tear if he had gone, even if a good proportion of the issues that surrounded the situation around Xmas, were because of issues from higher up the chain.
As the manager that I wanted in the Summer, he has won me back over. There is still a lot of work to be done for us to progress, but at this moment in time, Mr Lambert I feel is the man for the job without doubt.
If we finish above Tesco's and beat them home and away, I will also have his babies.
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Post mortem wise, his biggest mistake this season were seriously over-estimating the quality of the senior players who to a man were worse than useless - well anyone on here could have told him that last summer.
To which senior players do you refer? Given was dropped early season, Dunne never kicked a ball, N'Zogbia has played a limited role (and sometimes a useful one).
Stephen Ireland, yes, Lambert might have been a bit slow there.
Would you include Darren Bent among that list of 'useless' senior players that 'anyone' could have told Lambert about?
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Deserves another crack at it. We've played some brilliant attacking football since the Newcastle game and he's proved he can spot a player in the transfer market.
That said, please, a proven centre half older than 20 please!
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I have to say that after the Bradford debacle, I was one that would not have shed a tear if he had gone, even if a good proportion of the issues that surrounded the situation around Xmas, were because of issues from higher up the chain.
As the manager that I wanted in the Summer, he has won me back over. There is still a lot of work to be done for us to progress, but at this moment in time, Mr Lambert I feel is the man for the job without doubt.
If we finish above Tesco's and beat them home and away, I will also have his babies.
I reckon Lerner might of considered pulling the trigger especially after Millwall, and the transfer window
obviously he held his nerve, but I think it might have been touch and go for a bit
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Have any of the 5 actually explained their reasoning for wanting him gone?
And what about the 10 that want to "shake him all about"?
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Best football since BFR? It's been great at times and I actually find this counter-attacking style more exciting than O'Neill's. But a bit premature to disregard a lot of the decent periods of football we've played over the past 20 years.
Gregory's first 12 games trumps the last 3 months as does two seasons of Little when we came 5th and 4th. The second half of O'Dreary's first season was pretty good too. Probably more spells that I've forgotten.
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Have any of the 5 actually explained their reasoning for wanting him gone?
And what about the 10 that want to "shake him all about"?
In fairness he is still in need of a good shake. Particularly in regards to his choice of defensive coach.
But anyway, bright times are ahead. I think we'll be safe next season. Some good signings coming in and I'm sure we can do very well.
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I have to say that after the Bradford debacle, I was one that would not have shed a tear if he had gone, even if a good proportion of the issues that surrounded the situation around Xmas, were because of issues from higher up the chain.
As the manager that I wanted in the Summer, he has won me back over. There is still a lot of work to be done for us to progress, but at this moment in time, Mr Lambert I feel is the man for the job without doubt.
If we finish above Tesco's and beat them home and away, I will also have his babies.
I reckon Lerner might of considered pulling the trigger especially after Millwall, and the transfer window
obviously he held his nerve, but I think it might have been touch and go for a bit
I don't. I don't think there was ever a danger of him being fired.
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And what about the 10 that want to "shake him all about"?
I voted 'shake him all about' purely to add credibility to the poll.
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PL deserves a lot of credit for turning a genuine full-blown crisis situation around, as it was in January/February, avoiding relegation, (which to be fair, he had always maintained we would). and, somehow, bringing about, a sense of optimism which was unthinkable, even just a few weeks ago. His buys have been a huge success, their value increasing by the week in some cases, the absolute litmus-test of crowd reaction was passed after the Chelsea game in fine style, the Football is becoming increasingly impressive, particularly going forward, and, personally, i`m looking forward to next season, even before this one`s over. Well done Paul Lambert.
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Well done Lambert.
It's what Randy does next this summer that's going to be interesting. We've done the wage trimming bar the obvious ones like Dunne and Ireland. So if PL is given another £20m to spend and we keep the key players then hopefully that will banish the R word next season earlier and we'll get closer to 50 than 40 points.
However what if Randy release a big chunk of the Sky money, or heaven forbid our billionaire who has just sold the Browns dips into his own resources and gives PL a MONesque budget? You would think £50m would takes us upto Evertons level spent correctly.
Lambert deserves the chance to spend some proper dosh. That said I do like the 'feel' of the Villa again, so it would be a fine balancing act to keep that atmosphere with bigger name players I would think.
Good times ahead.
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Reports in the last 2 windows were that there was more money available but Lambert chose not to use it. If true, he'll still have that and he'll have the owners confidence that he knows a player when he sees one. It will probably be more of the same - the money's there but Lambert has the judgement and faith in younger players that he can spot a talent and back them. No more big money players only interested in their last big pay day and not giving a toss.
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Some experience wouldn't go amiss in order to strengthen and improve our current players.
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Lambert would probably see experience as being someone who's 24-27 though.
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Well, he kept us up so I've now voted "in". Don't want another season like that one though.
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I don't want one like any of the last three, but this time the next season looks very promising indeed.
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I just want him to keep hold of CB and buy 2 defenders and a midfielder. If he does that we will be knocking on the door of European football.
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I think we need more than that. If Gabby, Benteke or Weimann were out for a lengthy spell then their replacements wouldn't be the same standard - someone like Holman would come in. We would have probably won the Fulham game if we had been able to play our normal front 3. We need to think if something happened to x, we could bring in y. We also need competition for places when their all fit anyway.
It's the same with the midfield - if anything happened to one of our proven players, we've been having to bring in someone like Bannan and earlier in the season, Ireland. All our goals come from our forward line too. We need someone who can contribute more on the creativity and goalscoring side.
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A surprisingly catty article by Neil Moxley here. Totally misses the point on a number of issues.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2325056/Neil-Moxley-How-did-Aston-Villa-stage.html
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Seems like someone pissed on Moxley's chips.
And this is the text under the picture of Spink and Rimmer
"No so glorious days: Villa were winning the European Cup 31 years ago, but are no languishing in the lower realms, with owner Randy Lerner (below right) putting his hand in his pocket to help raise the club"
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I just don't see the point of it.
He asks why people are celebrating staying up - they're not, they're celebrating the fact we didn't go down, are we supposed to not be relieved at that?
Being happy in this instance is not some sort of acceptance of a new level of expectation. Ask Newcastle or Sunderland fans if they were as happy not to go down, too.
He then throws a load of moans together about Lambert, one of which is Bradford, which pretty much every single Villa fan would agree on, and was months ago, and another is Chelsea away, even longer ago, then gives some begrudging praise for recent results.
For a change, a club and fans have stuck with a manager when things have gone shitly, yet there always has to be someone ready to stick the boot in.
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This bit is particularly snidey.
Of course, it has all ended happily. No trophy for the 17th season in succession, but at least Villa will take their place in the Premier League next season.
It is incredible, really, what Lambert - and to a lesser extent the club - has overseen in terms of managing expectation. Hats off. They've managed it downwards magnificently.
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I wonder if he would write a similar article about Pardew and Newcastle for example?
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Does anyone out there have the remotest idea of what £100m looks like? I don't.
Yet this is the loss borne by the club on top of record revenues.
It is a fantastic sum. Put into sharp focus by the fact that both West Bromwich Albion and Swansea City - both of whom will finish above Villa this season - have posted a profit.
Want a bet that happens next season? And anyway, what does that have to do with anything ya prat?
And before anyone starts yes, it is relevant.
Sorry Neil, carry on.
Manchester City and Chelsea won the Premier League and Champions League last season because of what, exactly?
I'm no expert but i'm going to guess because they spent more money than anyone else? How is this relevant to Villa?
Sure, they had the best teams. Assembled at a cost in excess of £1.7bn...
No shit Sherlock Street. And the relevance we are are still waiting for?
But waste, sadly, is nothing new at Villa Park. Thankfully, steps are being taken to address that issue.
But bright new dawn? Hang on a minute.
So actually, despite telling us not to start because it was relevant, it actually wasn't?
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I just don't see the point of it.
He asks why people are celebrating staying up - they're not, they're celebrating the fact we didn't go down, are we supposed to not be relieved at that?
Being happy in this instance is not some sort of acceptance of a new level of expectation. Ask Newcastle or Sunderland fans if they were as happy not to go down, too.
He then throws a load of moans together about Lambert, one of which is Bradford, which pretty much every single Villa fan would agree on, and was months ago, and another is Chelsea away, even longer ago, then gives some begrudging praise for recent results.
For a change, a club and fans have stuck with a manager when things have gone shitly, yet there always has to be someone ready to stick the boot in.
I read it as an end of season review -with reference to our recent past and succesful era for context.
With that in mind, it would be a bit weird if he completely airbrushed the Bradford and Chelsea horror shows from existence.
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I just don't see the point of it.
He asks why people are celebrating staying up - they're not, they're celebrating the fact we didn't go down, are we supposed to not be relieved at that?
Being happy in this instance is not some sort of acceptance of a new level of expectation. Ask Newcastle or Sunderland fans if they were as happy not to go down, too.
He then throws a load of moans together about Lambert, one of which is Bradford, which pretty much every single Villa fan would agree on, and was months ago, and another is Chelsea away, even longer ago, then gives some begrudging praise for recent results.
For a change, a club and fans have stuck with a manager when things have gone shitly, yet there always has to be someone ready to stick the boot in.
I read it as an end of season review -with reference to our recent past and succesful era for context.
With that in mind, it would be a bit weird if he completely airbrushed the Bradford and Chelsea horror shows from existence.
If that was the case, why does he mention Bradford and Chelsea more than once and yet hardly mention any of the positives from the season?
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I read it earlier and wondered what his agenda was. Who does he support? And is he one of the MON followers, which might explain it a bit.
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He used to come to the odd Villa match with us at school, but he was a Blues fan.
However, that's not what his problem is, until relatively recently he's been pretty impartial and of the "if it is good for the region's football, it is good for me" school, which is laudable.
It just seems he's had a bee in his bonnet about us recently.
I don't even understand what he is trying to say in most of that article. Says we've wasted hundreds of millions but then moans about expectations being managed down when we cut back?
As for the Chelsea and Man City references, I don't know what he is trying to say there.
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Sorry.
Strikes me as a journo having a cheap shot at an easy target. No doubt, no-one knows better than us that we've struggled over recent seasons. A lot of Prem clubs - eg Stoke/Sunderland have had no heights to come down from!
It's really easy to have a go at what teams haven't done - most teams win nothing - but he seems to be relishing in the fact that we haven't.
Has he done similar articles on 17/18 other Prem clubs?
Following his "model" here, we all could - just insert club name!
If he pops into the Plough on Worcester St I'll confront him. Hope he brings a mop. But the best thing about being a journo is you can say what you like, put it up in lights and no-one ever gets the chance to answer your shit in the same way.
Wanker!
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He strikes me as being very similar to a few posters here who would relentlessly slate the team and manager while minimizing and downplaying anything positive. Some people just looooove having a moan.
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It strikes me as if he had a real assassination piece ready to roll when we went down, but then we didn't, so he made a few tweaks and ran it anyway.
I mean, surprised Villa fans are glad we didn't go down? Really?
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He used to come to the odd Villa match with us at school, but he was a Blues fan.
However, that's not what his problem is, until relatively recently he's been pretty impartial and of the "if it is good for the region's football, it is good for me" school, which is laudable.
It just seems he's had a bee in his bonnet about us recently.
I don't even understand what he is trying to say in most of that article. Says we've wasted hundreds of millions but then moans about expectations being managed down when we cut back?
As for the Chelsea and Man City references, I don't know what he is trying to say there.
It does seem strangely negative, and yet doesn't even make sense as a hatchet job.
And I didn't get the Man City or Chelsea comments either, which is why I took the piss above.
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It isn't the job of the press to support us, I get that, entirely, but that piece was just a bitter sounding, nonsensical, incoherent rant.
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It isn't the job of the press to support us, I get that, entirely, but that piece was just a bitter sounding, nonsensical, incoherent rant.
I wonder if he was pissed when he wrote it?
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You see what you want to see, I guess.
Because he's not fawning over Lambert (as is the recent trend) or in the 'Lambert we trust' vanguard, he is being snidey, or someone has pissed on his chips.
Maybe he just thinks the jury is still out on the bloke, based on the many mistakes made this season. By any reasonable measure, it has been a poor campaign. A poor season with some fantastic brightspots, undoubtedly. But poor all the same.
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Moxley is a nose working the Daily Mail. Doesn't that tell you something.
Even the recycling plants can't wash the shit out of that paper.
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I got the drift of his article as soon as he said Lambert's transfer policy was as much hit as miss.
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I actually think about 80% of the article - the commentary on the season - is pretty fair.
What it underplays is the genuine cause for optimism based on performances and results towards the end of the season. We actually look a good passing side and it feels like we're building something. I think the quality of our attacking play had often been better than it was when we were a top 6 side. Certainly our passing is far better. It's just that our defending is still pathetic.
And particularly gives almost no credit for lambert's transfer market activity: benteke, Guzan, lowton, Westwood in particular. They all demonstrate an eye for talent that I've never seen from a villa manager - at least perhaps not since SGT.
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Ultimately we have a squad far more inexperienced and on paper at least, weaker than last season, when you consider the names of Given, Hutton, Collins, Dunne, Warnock, N’Zogbia, Petrov, Ireland and Bent were regular starters.
Yet we have accumulated 3 more wins and thus far two more points than last season and it may be four and five come Sunday evening.
That would give us six wins out of the last ten. We have gone through some of the worst results in the clubs history in the mid-winter after a very limp start. It did not look good. While under McLiesh, relegation crept up on us in March.
Compare though the way we decided to get out of it this time. We have played some of the best attacking football I have seen down the Villa in a very long time. We still cannot defend, however, we have looked much better than our league position suggests.
It is in total contrast to the brutal, nihilist football that we settled into to bore draw our way to safety last term.
Its been just as hairy since February and our nerves have all been frayed, but (and I hate this kind of phraseology) at least we have done it the right way.
My hat goes off to you Lambert. You need to improve us in the summer and we can go again.
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I think Lambert is a good manager, and could well turn out to be a great one. He's shown that he has a great eye for players, he's got us playing exciting, attacking football and the way he picked up the players after the battering around christmas and got them to win all of the must-win games (in some style) is pretty close to miraculous. The total shift in atmosphere from one of negativity and gloom a year ago to the excitement and optimism we have today is really refreshing, and mostly down to him.
That said, we have to remember that he is incredibly ambitious. I hate to sound negative, but the minute a job offer comes in from a top 4 or good German club, or as soon as he feels he can't take Villa any further he'll be off. He did it at Wycombe, Colchester and Norwich. Given time he could end up being our Moyes (or even our Ferguson!), but unless we start winning things or consistently start getting european football I reckon he wont be here much longer than his current 3 year contract.
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I think Lambert is a good manager, and could well turn out to be a great one. He's shown that he has a great eye for players, he's got us playing exciting, attacking football and the way he picked up the players after the battering around christmas and got them to win all of the must-win games (in some style) is pretty close to miraculous. The total shift in atmosphere from one of negativity and gloom a year ago to the excitement and optimism we have today is really refreshing, and mostly down to him.
That said, we have to remember that he is incredibly ambitious. I hate to sound negative, but the minute a job offer comes in from a top 4 or good German club, or as soon as he feels he can't take Villa any further he'll be off. He did it at Wycombe, Colchester and Norwich. Given time he could end up being our Moyes (or even our Ferguson!), but unless we start winning things or consistently start getting european football I reckon he wont be here much longer than his current 3 year contract.
Maybe so, but maybe the fact that the club and the fans stuck with him when the pressure was really on around the new year might just make him think twice if he's coveted in the future.
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That said, we have to remember that he is incredibly ambitious. I hate to sound negative, but the minute a job offer comes in from a top 4 or good German club, or as soon as he feels he can't take Villa any further he'll be off. He did it at Wycombe, Colchester and Norwich. Given time he could end up being our Moyes (or even our Ferguson!), but unless we start winning things or consistently start getting european football I reckon he wont be here much longer than his current 3 year contract.
As I said at the time of his appointment when Norwich fans kept saying the same thing, I for one won't be complaining if he leaves us for a bigger club in a few years. That would mean he would've done a good job and left us in a better position then he found us.
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How many jobs in England are bigger than Villa, and how much success would he need to be offered and accept one of them? Not many, and quite a bit.
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Pretty much agree. However, I assume he speaks German which means he has more options than most British managers. If some club eventually tempts Klopp away, and Villa are doing well, I wouldn't be amazed to see him head back to Dortmund.
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How many jobs in England are bigger than Villa, and how much success would he need to be offered and accept one of them? Not many, and quite a bit.
I meant bigger as in a Champions League team. Either here or abroad. And yes, he would need quite a bit of success to warrent their interest which was pretty much my point.
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How many jobs in England are bigger than Villa, and how much success would he need to be offered and accept one of them? Not many, and quite a bit.
I meant bigger as in a Champions League team. Either here or abroad. And yes, he would need quite a bit of success to warrent their interest which was pretty much my point.
Is there any Briton managing abroad?
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I kind of get where Moxley is coming from, but it doesn't half sound bitter, like he put a big bet on us to go down and lost the lot following Wigan's result. Yes, we all agree we ought to be well above survival at a club like Villa, but the fact is that from a position of near-complete desolation, Lambert has managed to not only create a team that can stand up and be counted, but one that has us very optimistic about what they can do with a full season in front of them. I'm not complaining about the idea of grounding our current form in the overall context of the season, but to lay the credit almost completely at the benevolence of Randy Lerner is wrong.
The club's fiscal policy is clear for all to see, but Lerner must have stated there were limited funds available when offering Lambert the job. If there had been a policy of 'make do' before Lambert accepted the role, then he would have had to work within those constraints, but Lerner opted to give him some money for transfers in. Moxley seems to be particularly snippy that Lambert used this money.
The focus on the Bradford debacle gives the piece an overall tone that suggests the upturn in form was down to luck rather than hard work by the squad. None of us will ever forget the humiliation of it, but the fine results we had did not arrive due to the poor form of others alone: the togetherness of the squad was a massive factor in getting over the psychological blows of the Chelsea and Bradford games. I note he doesn't point to the shoddy luck we've also had to endure: two phantom penalties, questionable offsides, captain sidelined for weeks.
Aston Villa have been a country mile away from perfect this season, but Moxley delivers any credit through gritted teeth, and I can't help thinking that something must have changed in his relationship to the club, because of all the pundits commenting on us this season, he's usually been one of the most balanced, whereas this is largely bilge.
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Well I'm just putting it down to a nose whose seen his season's hopes go up in smoke.
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How many jobs in England are bigger than Villa, and how much success would he need to be offered and accept one of them? Not many, and quite a bit.
I meant bigger as in a Champions League team. Either here or abroad. And yes, he would need quite a bit of success to warrent their interest which was pretty much my point.
Is there any Briton managing abroad?
If you mean abroad as in Europe, then no. I don't think British managers are as attractive as they once were (nor our players by the looks of it) in continental Europe. I don't think they have been since the 90's really when the likes of Venables, Robson and Souness managed there. But this might change with the new generation of British managers coming through who seem to embrace the European philosophies more. Lambert is one of those and I assume he can speak some German, so I think he will manage in Germany one day.
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Lambert could manage abroad. One of the main reasons there aren't many British managers abroad is the same as why there aren't many in the Premier League: because the last generation especially were retrograde and utterly, utterly crap. We do seem to have a new few, however, who are at least with the curve internationally, and Lambert is one of those who could make the step.
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How many Villa managers have left and gone onto better things? Or to put it another way, how many have gone on to achieve better in their careers since leaving?
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How many jobs in England are bigger than Villa, and how much success would he need to be offered and accept one of them? Not many, and quite a bit.
I meant bigger as in a Champions League team. Either here or abroad. And yes, he would need quite a bit of success to warrent their interest which was pretty much my point.
Is there any Briton managing abroad?
If you mean abroad as in Europe, then no.
Brian Deane is managing in Norway.
The thing is that not many British players go and play abroad - but as Lambert is one of those who have and made a real success out of it, you'd expect him to be one of the managers who is more likely to be open to it as well.
I'd be really surprised if he doesn't manage in Germany at some point if he is even a partial success with us.
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Lambert in. I can smugly claim that I've been saying that all season.
At the start of the season I predicted a Houllieresque season: shit in the start and close to (or in) the relegation zone, then gradually improving into safe midtable mediocricy.
After the Spurs defeat on Boxing Day (?) I felt we were very likely to go down unless we strengthened significantly in the transfer window. When we didn't, I felt we would probably be relegated due to our shit defence. My confidence in Lambert wavered, especially after the cup exits and as he seemed to be completely unable to improve our defence. The reason I didn't want him to go, is that he had assembled the team (which I thought was probably to poor for the Premier League regardless of the manager) and more likely to get the best out of it than a new manager (of the calibre we would be likely to attract).
When we played West Ham at home I thought we would almost certainly go down if we didn't win this. When we did, there was suddenly hope. When we won against Stoke I felt pretty confident that we would stay in the division.
It hasn't been a glorious campaign, but certainly with enough positives for Lambert to keep his job. I can see us doing better next season than fighting relegation, but I am pretty sure we'll hit a glass ceiling if Lambert doesn't do a more serious attempt at sorting out our defence.
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I will freely admit to doing a complete 360 on Lambert. I was please when we got him last summer, but by Christmas I honestly believed the job was too big for him. I thought moving to a big city club with big expectations was too much too soon in his career.
I happy to say that since Newcastle (second half) he has, changed my mind again and I am genuinely excited about how we will develop under him.
My one concern is his apparent reluctance to bring in ANY experience.
I don't think we will struggle next year like this, BUT, will it really hurt us to bring in a bit of nous and experience?
Personally, I think it will invaluable, because the way it is panning out, only Gabby will have had any significant premiership experience next season.
There is no doubt the youngsters have learned loads this year and it will put them in good stead, but lets help them out with the right players and try and bring them up to the next level.
For me, Barry and Lescott would be perfect acquisitions to the squad for next year.
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I think my answer to the article is that sometimes you need to fall down a bit to regroup. It's happened to Newcastle in recent seasons (though they seem to have taken another fall) and it's happened to Villa. And yes, the jury is till out on Lambert in purely impartial terms, but sometimes it's just a matter of believing, and I'm very confident things will be much better for us next season.
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Interesting to watch Lambert's Wigan press conference on AVTV, he talks a bit about the players.
Lowton cost 'a million', Westwood '900,000'. Impressive.
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I was delighted when we got him, tempted to give him the boot in January and now looking forward him being our manager next season and beyond. There's going to be up and downs, but in the fullness of time expect him to deliver a team that will challenge for trophies and possibly knock on the door of Champions' League qualification.
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Interesting to watch Lambert's Wigan press conference on AVTV, he talks a bit about the players.
Lowton cost 'a million', Westwood '900,000'. Impressive.
When you consider what we thought - 2.5 ish each - it hammers home just how much a bargain they were. You would not see change out of 16-18 million for the pair now. If they cost 2 between them, it really is quite something. The squad as a unit must be at about its most valuable for as long as I can remember.
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Interesting to watch Lambert's Wigan press conference on AVTV, he talks a bit about the players.
Lowton cost 'a million', Westwood '900,000'. Impressive.
He's built a team on a 1980's budget.
That's fucking brilliant.
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Lambert in. I can smugly claim that I've been saying that all season.
I thought right through the season that even if we went down, we should keep him on. That's not necessarily the biggest shout of belief in him, it is also a reflection that the whole new manager every year thing doesn't work and has to end somewhere.
However, in defence of those who wanted him out at whichever point in the season, whilst I think some of the suggestions (bring in Fat Sam / Di Matteo / Keane were gigantic kneejerks), I entirely understand why some people wanted him sacked.
There were plenty of points this year where, if you just looked at his record, it was hard to argue that he didn't merit the sack. That's not the same as saying you think he *should* have got it, just an admission that you could mount a decent argument in favour of him going.
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Interesting to watch Lambert's Wigan press conference on AVTV, he talks a bit about the players.
Lowton cost 'a million', Westwood '900,000'. Impressive.
I'm almost ashamed when I think back to my indifference at his appointment believing him to be a MON clone. Seeing us actually signing the sort of bargains that I always used to look on in envy when other clubs signed them instead is a great feeling. It makes a change from my usual tirades of "Why the f**k didn't we sign him!" or 'What the f**k are our scouts doing!".
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Y'know I'm really glad this site exists, I think the posters here tend to take a much more considered view of things. We can see what Lambert is trying to do, we can see how far him and the players have come and we can be cautiously optimistic for the future. God knows things have been awful this season, and we came damn close to the abyss, but the signs for the future are good.
Now I don't like slagging off other Villa fans, but on some of the other big Villa sites you'd think the Bradford cup exit happened last week. Apparently those who believe in the new transfer policy have been 'tricked' into Lerner and Lambert's nefarious plan to turn us into the next Wigan, unless we pack the squad with players from top 4 clubs then we'll be relegated next season and (my personal favourite) the fact none of the friendlies are against 'quality' sides is another sign of the deliberate 'downsizing' of the club.
Some people just looooove to feel OUTRAGED about something.
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Y'know I'm really glad this site exists, I think the posters here tend to take a much more considered view of things. We can see what Lambert is trying to do, we can see how far him and the players have come and we can be cautiously optimistic for the future. God knows things have been awful this season, and we came damn close to the abyss, but the signs for the future are good.
Now I don't like slagging off other Villa fans, but on some of the other big Villa sites you'd think the Bradford cup exit happened last week. Apparently those who believe in the new transfer policy have been 'tricked' into Lerner and Lambert's nefarious plan to turn us into the next Wigan, unless we pack the squad with players from top 4 clubs then we'll be relegated next season and (my personal favourite) the fact none of the friendlies are against 'quality' sides is another sign of the deliberate 'downsizing' of the club.
Some people just looooove to feel OUTRAGED about something.
Some people/sites went overboard when Randy arrived and feel betrayed that we aren't at least the new PSG. Some of them also thought they'd be a bit more involved than has proved the case.
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Y'know I'm really glad this site exists, I think the posters here tend to take a much more considered view of things. We can see what Lambert is trying to do, we can see how far him and the players have come and we can be cautiously optimistic for the future. God knows things have been awful this season, and we came damn close to the abyss, but the signs for the future are good.
Now I don't like slagging off other Villa fans, but on some of the other big Villa sites you'd think the Bradford cup exit happened last week. Apparently those who believe in the new transfer policy have been 'tricked' into Lerner and Lambert's nefarious plan to turn us into the next Wigan, unless we pack the squad with players from top 4 clubs then we'll be relegated next season and (my personal favourite) the fact none of the friendlies are against 'quality' sides is another sign of the deliberate 'downsizing' of the club.
Some people just looooove to feel OUTRAGED about something.
Some people/sites went overboard when Randy arrived and feel betrayed that we aren't at least the new PSG. Some of them also thought they'd be a bit more involved than has proved the case.
Yeah, thats another thing - the way some of the mods and article writers talk on some of the other forums, its as though they are furious that the management aren't phoning them up in person to ask for advice. The lack of communication from the board has been pretty galling, but I think thats just the way football is these days....
Again, I don't want to slate fellow fans, but jeez, we've had so much relentless negativity over the last year (or three years really) I wish people would just look at the positives for once!
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Y'know I'm really glad this site exists, I think the posters here tend to take a much more considered view of things. We can see what Lambert is trying to do, we can see how far him and the players have come and we can be cautiously optimistic for the future. God knows things have been awful this season, and we came damn close to the abyss, but the signs for the future are good.
Now I don't like slagging off other Villa fans, but on some of the other big Villa sites you'd think the Bradford cup exit happened last week. Apparently those who believe in the new transfer policy have been 'tricked' into Lerner and Lambert's nefarious plan to turn us into the next Wigan, unless we pack the squad with players from top 4 clubs then we'll be relegated next season and (my personal favourite) the fact none of the friendlies are against 'quality' sides is another sign of the deliberate 'downsizing' of the club.
Some people just looooove to feel OUTRAGED about something.
Some people/sites went overboard when Randy arrived and feel betrayed that we aren't at least the new PSG. Some of them also thought they'd be a bit more involved than has proved the case.
Yeah, thats another thing - the way some of the mods and article writers talk on some of the other forums, its as though they are furious that the management aren't phoning them up in person to ask for advice.
Again, I don't want to slate fellow fans, but jeez, we've had so much relentless negativity over the last year (or three years really) I wish people would just look at the positives for once!
One thing I learned very early on - anyone can become an expert on the internet, and if it's not done exactly how you want it to be, then it's wrong.
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Right Mr Lambert get Benteke, Weimann, Westwood, Guzan and Lowton tied down to deals and get our defence sorted out asap. If we don't do that we'll be in big trouble.
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10/10 for the manager from me.
I think he's done a fantastic job, he's rolled three season's worth of work out in one.
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Some strange subs again today.
Plenty of potential next season. Despite the fact we've finished 15th on a rather pathetic 41 points. I'm actually in a good mood, largely, about this season. I think in the last few months we've come on very well. We look a good attacking force.
Lambert has to sort the defence though and he has to really work on his tactics and substitutions too. If we start next season like we did this, and are struggling around Nov/Dec again, he has to go.
I believe we'll start okay though.
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Aston Villa should never be happy finishing 15th and scraping survival.
But.....unlike other years when we finished in these positions, this year feels different.
I think we're on the right track, we have a real cutting edge going forward. Even without Benteke we still scored twice. Vital we keep all the forwards together (even CNZ who still has more to give in this set up) and sign someone to replace Benteke. Would love to see us get an attacking midfielder from somewhere aswell.
Obviously we need a defender or two in. But even if we do, I don't expect us to suddenly start keeping clean sheets regularly. It's just not the Lambert way. Look back to Norwich and they conceded plenty but they still were successful as we were in 07/08 when we concede loads of goals most weeks.
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Regular clean sheets, no, but the occasional one would help.
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At the very least we need to try and stop giving away so many stupid free kicks in dangerous areas. It almost killed us last season. It's been even worse this season. That's been a huge thorn in our side. Having no defensive lynch pin at the back doesn't help. Hopefully that is addressed. Positionally our youngsters (and Vlaar to be honest) are all over the shop. If get a Tony Adams type to keep everyone in order, we'll be far better.
If we can limit ourselves to conceding maybe 50 in a season, rather than near 70 goals, we'll be far better. I can see us scoring 50-60+ goals next season.
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Well we kept about 5-6 clean sheets by xmas but still weren't winning many games as we didn't have a clue going forward.
How many goals did we concede in 07/08 compared to this one? We seemed to concede 3-4 goals on a regular basis but the attacking game worked a treat so we got away with it.
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Well we kept about 5-6 clean sheets by xmas but still weren't winning many games as we didn't have a clue going forward.
How many goals did we concede in 07/08 compared to this one? We seemed to concede 3-4 goals on a regular basis but the attacking game worked a treat so we got away with it.
We conceded 51 that season, which wasn't too shabby. But yeah, going forward we were quality that year, and we scored an arse load from set pieces.
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Regular clean sheets, no, but the occasional one would help.
Yes along with getting our key players signed up to new deals, this is absolutely vital.
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10/10 for the manager from me.
I think he's done a fantastic job, he's rolled three season's worth of work out in one.
That I don't see.
He inherited a decent squad (albeit one with significant gaps) and had £23 million to spend on top of that - more than the likes of Everton, Newcastle and Sunderland spent. And clearly more than the Olbiyun, Swansea and Naarwich.
Yet for all that we are one place higher than last year, and -like last season- were only assured of staying up with one game to spare.
7/10 for me (for entertainment value, as much as anything else in the last third of the campaign). 10/10 would have been European qualification or a cup win, ie exceeding most reasonable pre season expectations. Has he really done that this campaign?
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I'll reserve any mark until the end of next season. This season saw a change of culture at Aston Villa. It was, at times, a painful change. If next season it brings the rewards we think and hope it might, then Lambert may have earned that 10/10.
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Well the game was us in a chestnut. The worrying thing is the likes of Lerner and Faulkner will probably take us staying up as some sort of vindication of their methods rather than a warning. The reality is we stayed up by the skin of our teeth. Ok, we weren't the only ones but when you consider the team we played today put 5 past us this season, its clear investment is needed. Only takes a few injuries and the likes of Benteke suffering 2nd season syndrome and we could be up to our necks in it again.
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Well the game was us in a chestnut. The worrying thing is the likes of Lerner and Faulkner will probably take us staying up as some sort of vindication of their methods rather than a warning. The reality is we stayed up by the skin of our teeth. Ok, we weren't the only ones but when you consider the team we played today put 5 past us this season, its clear investment is needed. Only takes a few injuries and the likes of Benteke suffering 2nd season syndrome and we could be up to our necks in it again.
Agree with that. We conceded 69 goals this season, and any team who concedes goals for fun like we do will always struggle at the wrong end of the table. This has to be addressed in the summer.
For me I'd give Lambert 5/10. Just avoiding relegation should not be something to celebrate.
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I'll reserve any mark until the end of next season. This season saw a change of culture at Aston Villa. It was, at times, a painful change. If next season it brings the rewards we think and hope it might, then Lambert may have earned that 10/10.
Yeah I agree, top marks for him are way over the top purely because this season brought us the humiliation of Bradford let's not forget.
That said, I reckon next season we'll be back in the top 10 just if Benteke stays as going forward we have a real threat now which can often be enough in the premier league.
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I fully expected Nasher and SH to be firmly on th negative side, worst case scenario side of the ledger. On reflection it's not as bad as it was at times, and we never consistently hit the highs. Lambert gets a 7.5 from the Toronto jury. The squad is significantly better than the one he inherited and in one season despite the lows he kept the players that mattered focussed and together. That bodes really well for next season. He'll be looking to add to the squad with the types of player that will remain motivated and true to the cause even when the chips are down. We will have sticky patches next season but what he's created as unfortunate as it was at times, stronger characters and players that really appreciate success.
As Lee points in many ways he has eradicated much of the ill feeling that has hung over the club for 3 years now. That was a monumental task, and once we rid ourselves of the remaining players that no longer represent what we are about in the future we will be free of the massive final anchor that currently burdens us and is holding us back.
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I give him full marks for keeping faith with the players and not panicking during the Xmas/January nightmare. 0-15 aggregate over 3 games, the Bradford debacle, the Millwall capitulation. I think every single one of us must have wondered at some moments if we were going to go into complete freefall.
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Just being realistic i think. Even IF the defence learn to defend over the summer and the whole team improves from this season's experience you can't get over the fact we're painfully short of quality in many key positions, and If we lost a few long term to injury we'd be in trouble. I realise some on here think Lambert is going to pull bargain basement premiership players out of his arse for the next 5 years but in the real world its not realistic.. They need to spend at least 20m again this summer or we could be struggling. I fear he'll get peanuts unless he sells someone.
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He didn't get peanuts though last summer. He just made every penny stretch and did so very astutely despite the club bleeding from some of the huge contracts we were lumbered with. It's not always how much a manager gets to spend but who or what he spends it on. MON bought some good players, but spent a fortune on transfers and wages on absolutely naff that didn't perform or contribute in any way. Lambert could take half of that and do far more with it.
The club showed last year that we were willing to spend £7m on a relatively unknown Belgian forward and agreed a deal for an established PL attacking midfielder that fell through. I don't see this summer being any different. That we will buy players with potential, but we will consider deals for tried and trusted entities that have a track record. There is a lot of work ahead and the likes of Baker, Clark and Bennett, even Vlaar will be expected to improve if they want to keep their places in the side.
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I don't know. Last summer was almost entirely funded by the Young and Downing money bought in the season before. If Lerner follows the same breakeven pattern then this season there won't be much unless we sell someone.
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It doesn't matter where the money is generated either. What does it matter that it came from player sales? Man U spent the Ronaldo money, Everton spent the Lescott and Rooney money, Arsenal reinvested the Fabregas, Nasri, Song money and I'm sure they'll spend the Van Persie money. I find we get so hung up on net spend. The importance is whatever money we have do we spend it well, and for the longest time we haven't. The successful clubs spend well, and what will differentiate us from those in a similar position to us and just above is how we spend whatever money we have.
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It matters because selling your best players doesn't work unless you replace them with similar - you only have to look at us for that. Lambert's done well in picking up bargains but i'd bet my house he'll buy a few duds and if that's their plan - buy bargains, sell them on for big money and repeat for ever, then frankly we're going to spend a long time down the bottom and eventually you'll sell one too many and you go down. That's true all the way back to Wimbledon to the guys we played today.
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I reckon selling Hutton (2m), Bannan, (3m), Bent (8m) and CNZ (7M) would bring in the 20m or so Greg. Add Dunney out of contract and someone from somewhere being mental enough to sign Ireland and that would be a decent enough transition of high earning and maintenance players.
Or we could just sell Benteke for 25m and Weimann for 5m but let's not go there.
End of the day if WBA finishing 8th on 49 points is the standard for top 8 next season, it won't take a huge amount for us to get 50 points and top 8, just keeping Benteke and signing a decent central midfielder could do it.
It is a lot more difficult in this league to move up from 5th-6th to 4th than say 15th to 8th.
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mebbe. Still think we'll struggle to offload any of them because of the wages bar Bannan. Bent looks like he'll go but i can't see us getting 8m for him. More likely 5m with the rest offsetting his wages. Sad fact is the clubs after our cast-offs aren't going to pay 50k+ wages. We've lost 50m worth of players for no fees in the last 3 years
As for WBA, you wouldn't bet on them finishing there next season, and that's why we need to spend to get back into that comfortably mid-table position, rather than in the 1 season wonder catagory. That means a bigger squad and quality cover in all positions, something neither us or WBA have. At least then you've got a stable base - as it is you could predict us finishing anywhere from 8th to bottom depending on how the first team play/stay fit - lets face it, past those 13 or 14 names there's sod all else.
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mebbe. Still think we'll struggle to offload any of them because of the wages bar Bannan. Bent looks like he'll go but i can't see us getting 8m for him. More likely 5m with the rest offsetting his wages. Sad fact is the clubs after our cast-offs aren't going to pay 50k+ wages. We've lost 50m worth of players for no fees in the last 3 years
No way would i sell bent for £5m - I would hope for closer to £10m.
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£20m.
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mebbe. Still think we'll struggle to offload any of them because of the wages bar Bannan. Bent looks like he'll go but i can't see us getting 8m for him. More likely 5m with the rest offsetting his wages. Sad fact is the clubs after our cast-offs aren't going to pay 50k+ wages. We've lost 50m worth of players for no fees in the last 3 years
No way would i sell bent for £5m - I would hope for closer to £10m.
to whom? He's hardly played so he's hardly the first name on the list of clubs who could afford him. The rest are similar to us or worse off, and looking for a Benteke rather than a Bent.
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mebbe. Still think we'll struggle to offload any of them because of the wages bar Bannan. Bent looks like he'll go but i can't see us getting 8m for him. More likely 5m with the rest offsetting his wages. Sad fact is the clubs after our cast-offs aren't going to pay 50k+ wages. We've lost 50m worth of players for no fees in the last 3 years
No way would i sell bent for £5m - I would hope for closer to £10m.
to whom? He's hardly played so he's hardly the first name on the list of clubs who could afford him. The rest are similar to us or worse off, and looking for a Benteke rather than a Bent.
Still a natural finisher though Greg and there will be takers - would do a job at the likes of newcastle or west ham or even everton .
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mebbe. Still think we'll struggle to offload any of them because of the wages bar Bannan. Bent looks like he'll go but i can't see us getting 8m for him. More likely 5m with the rest offsetting his wages. Sad fact is the clubs after our cast-offs aren't going to pay 50k+ wages. We've lost 50m worth of players for no fees in the last 3 years
No way would i sell bent for £5m - I would hope for closer to £10m.
to whom? He's hardly played so he's hardly the first name on the list of clubs who could afford him. The rest are similar to us or worse off, and looking for a Benteke rather than a Bent.
Still a natural finisher though Greg and there will be takers - would do a job at the likes of newcastle or west ham or even everton .
Dunno. you've got a guy who's supposedly on way above 50k , so they're gonna pay 10m and his wages. He's also 29 so you're looking at a minimum of 17m over three years with no resale value. Can't see it myself.
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mebbe. Still think we'll struggle to offload any of them because of the wages bar Bannan. Bent looks like he'll go but i can't see us getting 8m for him. More likely 5m with the rest offsetting his wages. Sad fact is the clubs after our cast-offs aren't going to pay 50k+ wages. We've lost 50m worth of players for no fees in the last 3 years
No way would i sell bent for £5m - I would hope for closer to £10m.
to whom? He's hardly played so he's hardly the first name on the list of clubs who could afford him. The rest are similar to us or worse off, and looking for a Benteke rather than a Bent.
Still a natural finisher though Greg and there will be takers - would do a job at the likes of newcastle or west ham or even everton .
Dunno. you've got a guy who's supposedly on way above 50k , so they'll gonna pay 10m and his wages. He's also 29 so you're looking at a minimum of 17m over three years with no resale value. Can't see it myself.
The thing with bent is that if you play to his strengths he is virtually certain to bag you 20 goals a season - not many players available like that at that price - I'm sure there will be interest in him .
West ham were interested in paying andy Carroll a lot more in wages and a reputed £17m fee and he scored a total of 2 league goals for them this season.
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Exactly.
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mebbe. Still think we'll struggle to offload any of them because of the wages bar Bannan. Bent looks like he'll go but i can't see us getting 8m for him. More likely 5m with the rest offsetting his wages. Sad fact is the clubs after our cast-offs aren't going to pay 50k+ wages. We've lost 50m worth of players for no fees in the last 3 years
No way would i sell bent for £5m - I would hope for closer to £10m.
to whom? He's hardly played so he's hardly the first name on the list of clubs who could afford him. The rest are similar to us or worse off, and looking for a Benteke rather than a Bent.
Still a natural finisher though Greg and there will be takers - would do a job at the likes of newcastle or west ham or even everton .
Fulham are interested I hear. Don't know what they'll offer though.
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mebbe. Still think we'll struggle to offload any of them because of the wages bar Bannan. Bent looks like he'll go but i can't see us getting 8m for him. More likely 5m with the rest offsetting his wages. Sad fact is the clubs after our cast-offs aren't going to pay 50k+ wages. We've lost 50m worth of players for no fees in the last 3 years
No way would i sell bent for £5m - I would hope for closer to £10m.
to whom? He's hardly played so he's hardly the first name on the list of clubs who could afford him. The rest are similar to us or worse off, and looking for a Benteke rather than a Bent.
Still a natural finisher though Greg and there will be takers - would do a job at the likes of newcastle or west ham or even everton .
Dunno. you've got a guy who's supposedly on way above 50k , so they'll gonna pay 10m and his wages. He's also 29 so you're looking at a minimum of 17m over three years with no resale value. Can't see it myself.
The thing with bent is that if you play to his strengths he is virtually certain to bag you 20 goals a season - not many players available like that at that price - I'm sure there will be interest in him .
I knows his strengths and id rather we kept him personally but its still a risk for those clubs - it hasn't worked out for him here for a start.. Everton buy VFM so i'd rule them out. Newcastle maybe but still if he's on the rumoured 80-90k a week i don't think they would pay 10m for him, especially as he's done nothing for getting on for 2 years
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I don't know. Last summer was almost entirely funded by the Young and Downing money bought in the season before. If Lerner follows the same breakeven pattern then this season there won't be much unless we sell someone.
Bizarre.
Lerner has put in a ton of money and it would be surprising if he stumps up a load more. And -yes - he's made some weird decisions over the time (like, backing MON to the hilt and bringing in TSM).
Nontheless, the only model that'll work - other than finding an oligarch (and even this option is not particularly favoured, I suspect) - is to buy and sell effectively. This means buying players very well and turning over the ones that are both dispensable and / or valued out there in the market.
For us this summer, this means offloading Bent and the remaining dross for whatever we can get (and possibly funding some wages for a while) and then buying judiciously using the extra Premiership money and the freed-up wages from releasing the highly-paid dross.
Simples.
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10/10 for the manager from me.
I think he's done a fantastic job, he's rolled three season's worth of work out in one.
That I don't see.
He inherited a decent squad (albeit one with significant gaps) and had £23 million to spend on top of that - more than the likes of Everton, Newcastle and Sunderland spent. And clearly more than the Olbiyun, Swansea and Naarwich.
Yet for all that we are one place higher than last year, and -like last season- were only assured of staying up with one game to spare.
7/10 for me (for entertainment value, as much as anything else in the last third of the campaign). 10/10 would have been European qualification or a cup win, ie exceeding most reasonable pre season expectations. Has he really done that this campaign?
I'm not sure many would agree with you that he inherited a decent squad and certainly the evidence of results in second half of last season point to a squad that was possibly the worst in the league. Added to that he lost Dunne for the whole season.
You only had to see the first game vs Everton to see the trouble he was in with the inherited players.
So I think great credit must go to Lambert for not only turning around an inexorable decline but also vastly improving the style of play.
Yes it took a long time to settle on the right formula and there's certainly an argument to be made that we might have made a pragmatic signing or two to shore up the defence. But I think despite the low points tally and more than a whiff of relegation fear, we've more cause to be optimistic about the forthcoming season than for many years
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PS - I'm not suggesting Bent is dross. I do think that he has some market value to teams like Fulham, Cardiff, Norwich and possibly Blunderland.
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10/10 for the manager from me.
I think he's done a fantastic job, he's rolled three season's worth of work out in one.
That I don't see.
He inherited a decent squad (albeit one with significant gaps) and had £23 million to spend on top of that - more than the likes of Everton, Newcastle and Sunderland spent. And clearly more than the Olbiyun, Swansea and Naarwich.
Yet for all that we are one place higher than last year, and -like last season- were only assured of staying up with one game to spare.
7/10 for me (for entertainment value, as much as anything else in the last third of the campaign). 10/10 would have been European qualification or a cup win, ie exceeding most reasonable pre season expectations. Has he really done that this campaign?
I'm not sure many would agree with you that he inherited a decent squad and certainly the evidence of results in second half of last season point to a squad that was possibly the worst in the league. Added to that he lost Dunne for the whole season.
You only had to see the first game vs Everton to see the trouble he was in with the inherited players.
So I think great credit must go to Lambert for not only turning around an inexorable decline but also vastly improving the style of play.
Yes it took a long time to settle on the right formula and there's certainly an argument to be made that we might have made a pragmatic signing or two to shore up the defence. But I think despite the low points tally and more than a whiff of relegation fear, we've more cause to be optimistic about the forthcoming season than for many years
Agreed - he was dealt a shit hand and I suspect he expected alot more from the experienced players than he actually got.
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Very generous to call the squad he inherited decent. I'd lean more towards crap and massively overpaid with a few decent players in there as well as some promising youngsters.
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I thought the "decent squad" claim was stretching it a bit.
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To be fair GH and the TSM got loads of stick for not doing much with a "decent squad". The reality was it was over the hill by the time MON left and taking away Milner, Young and Petrov showed how poor it really was. I certainly don't think it was miles worse last summer than the one TSM inherited the summer before, more the penny finally dropped last summer.
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To be fair GH and the TSM got loads of stick for not doing much with a "decent squad". The reality was it was over the hill by the time MON left and taking away Milner, Young and Petrov showed how poor it really was. I certainly don't think it was miles worse last summer than the one TSM inherited the summer before, more the penny finally dropped last summer.
Actually kind of agrees with this. The squad MON left behind was ageing and uneven. The best players left, and some of the decent ones (Dunne, Warnock and Carew) lost form. The problem was of course that most of the additions -- Ireland, N'Zogbia, Hutton, Makoun and Given -- weren't exactly great value for money. Even with Bent's price tag looks steep unless you claim that he's the reason we stayed up in the GH season.
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The sign of a good manager is that when they leave, the club still have solid foundations from which to build. O'Neill's sides always struggle for years and require massive overhauls to put right again.
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To be fair GH and the TSM got loads of stick for not doing much with a "decent squad". The reality was it was over the hill by the time MON left and taking away Milner, Young and Petrov showed how poor it really was. I certainly don't think it was miles worse last summer than the one TSM inherited the summer before, more the penny finally dropped last summer.
Actually kind of agrees with this. The squad MON left behind was ageing and uneven. The best players left, and some of the decent ones (Dunne, Warnock and Carew) lost form. The problem was of course that most of the additions -- Ireland, N'Zogbia, Hutton, Makoun and Given -- weren't exactly great value for money. Even with Bent's price tag looks steep unless you claim that he's the reason we stayed up in the GH season.
9 in 13. Without them we would have dropped. The confidence he gave the side was vital, although Petrov coming back into the side with NRC was a big part of the turnaround too.
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The sign of a good manager is that when they leave, the club still have solid foundations from which to build. O'Neill's sides always struggle for years and require massive overhauls to put right again.
The best managers are also judged on their legacy, and O'Neill's legacy at Villa was absolute chaos as he flounced out, and a lop sided squad costing far more than it should have done.
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To be fair GH and the TSM got loads of stick for not doing much with a "decent squad". The reality was it was over the hill by the time MON left and taking away Milner, Young and Petrov showed how poor it really was. I certainly don't think it was miles worse last summer than the one TSM inherited the summer before, more the penny finally dropped last summer.
Actually kind of agrees with this. The squad MON left behind was ageing and uneven. The best players left, and some of the decent ones (Dunne, Warnock and Carew) lost form. The problem was of course that most of the additions -- Ireland, N'Zogbia, Hutton, Makoun and Given -- weren't exactly great value for money. Even with Bent's price tag looks steep unless you claim that he's the reason we stayed up in the GH season.
9 in 13. Without them we would have dropped. The confidence he gave the side was vital, although Petrov coming back into the side with NRC was a big part of the turnaround too.
So, let's say Bent was a good signing. Still, that's one in six from MON resigned till Lambert arrived. (Not counting Kyle Walker or Robbie Keane.)
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So, let's say Bent was a good signing. Still, that's one in six from MON resigned till Lambert arrived. (Not counting Kyle Walker or Robbie Keane.)
It could be argued that Given was as important to us staying up last season as Bent was the season before.
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So, let's say Bent was a good signing. Still, that's one in six from MON resigned till Lambert arrived. (Not counting Kyle Walker or Robbie Keane.)
It could be argued that Given was as important to us staying up last season as Bent was the season before.
It could also be argued Guzan was ready, and deserved to stay in the side after keeping a clean sheet at Stoke last season when Given was out.
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10/10 for the manager from me.
I think he's done a fantastic job, he's rolled three season's worth of work out in one.
That I don't see.
He inherited a decent squad (albeit one with significant gaps) and had £23 million to spend on top of that - more than the likes of Everton, Newcastle and Sunderland spent. And clearly more than the Olbiyun, Swansea and Naarwich.
Yet for all that we are one place higher than last year, and -like last season- were only assured of staying up with one game to spare.
7/10 for me (for entertainment value, as much as anything else in the last third of the campaign). 10/10 would have been European qualification or a cup win, ie exceeding most reasonable pre season expectations. Has he really done that this campaign?
I'm not sure many would agree with you that he inherited a decent squad and certainly the evidence of results in second half of last season point to a squad that was possibly the worst in the league. Added to that he lost Dunne for the whole season.
McPish got the bullet, did he not?
Indicating that the powers that be (like most Villa fans) believed that by finishing 16th, he underperformed with the tools at his disposal last term.
Managers generally don't get the boot for delivering parity.
That being the case, how can Lambert have been such a 10/10 revelation to deliver one place higher, with an extra spend of £23 million? Makes no sense.
And yes, outside of the top 4/5, any manager inheriting a squad with the likes of Bent, Given, Dunne, Ireland, N Zog, Gabby, Delph and Albrighton might view that as one of the better squads in the division. That was the pool of talent available to him on taking the job, even if -as we now know- Dunne wouldn't feature for the entire campaign. All of them (apart from Delph) have been amongst the better performers in the top flight at some stage in their careers (admittedly not always with us).
Dunne and Stan clearly left big gaps in the side, but money was available to offset that loss.
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There were much bigger issues though. Ireland, despite somehow getting the player of the year award last season, had looked way below standard since arriving. Given is not the keeper he is lauded to be as nice a bloke as he appears, NZogbia blows hot and cold and has always been in sides down the bottom, Delph had been injured almost exclusively since arriving, Gabby got injured straight away almost and Albrighton was on the back of a very poor 2nd season.
More importantly, Dunne and Stan were 2 of the stand out performers last season, and the 2 that gave the experience and leadership. As such with them gone, and us all saying we needed 7 or 8 new players, how was he to do that with 23 million.
I would give him 7 out of 10 too for his first season actually, but I think he inherited a pigs ear of a squad, and has done pretty well second half of the season. I think he has done miraculously in the transfer market, and also in bringing on the likes of Delph and Weimann.
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We could have finished 12th and McLeish would still have been sacked. It wasn't just league position that was undoing, more his really really shit standard of football.
As for the players, Ireland 6 good months in his career, Albrighton 4 good months. Delph, written off by many on here, including getting called worst player to ever play for us, Gabby, 1 goal in 6 months when Lambert took over. Dunne at his age was never going to be reliable. Zog poor 12 months. Bent and Given are the only ones in the decent camp from that list, and both of those have been replaced for a max of £7.5 million and a fraction of the wages.
For such a decent squad the amount of other clubs interested in any of them in the summer was pretty much zero.
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We could have finished 12th and McLeish would still have been sacked. It wasn't just league position that was undoing, more his really really shit standard of football.
As for the players, Ireland 6 good months in his career, Albrighton 4 good months. Delph, written off by many on here, including getting called worst player to ever play for us, Gabby, 1 goal in 6 months when Lambert took over. Dunne at his age was never going to be reliable. Zog poor 12 months. Bent and Given are the only ones in the decent camp from that list, and both of those have been replaced for a max of £7.5 million and a fraction of the wages.
For such a decent squad the amount of other clubs interested in any of them in the summer was pretty much zero.
Just out of interest, how do you know for certain that other clubs weren't interested in them? We like to play our cards close to our chest, and not all opposition clubs take the Dave Whelan or FSW approach to transfer negotiations. Maybe -weirdly- we wanted to give the new manager a chance to fully assess the squad he inherited?
As for Ireland, he's clearly a headcase, but having won two Player of the Year awards, he's probably had a bit more than six good months in his career.
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We could have finished 12th and McLeish would still have been sacked. It wasn't just league position that was undoing, more his really really shit standard of football.
As for the players, Ireland 6 good months in his career, Albrighton 4 good months. Delph, written off by many on here, including getting called worst player to ever play for us, Gabby, 1 goal in 6 months when Lambert took over. Dunne at his age was never going to be reliable. Zog poor 12 months. Bent and Given are the only ones in the decent camp from that list, and both of those have been replaced for a max of £7.5 million and a fraction of the wages.
For such a decent squad the amount of other clubs interested in any of them in the summer was pretty much zero.
Just out of interest, how do you know for certain that other clubs weren't interested in them? We like to play our cards close to our chest, and not all opposition clubs take the Dave Whelan or FSW approach to transfer negotiations. Maybe -weirdly- we wanted to give the new manager a chance to fully assess the squad he inherited?
As for Ireland, he's clearly a headcase, but having won two Player of the Year awards, he's probably had a bit more than six good months in his career.
Being our player of the year last year was not something to shout about.
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I don't, it's an assumption based on there hasn't even been the smallest hint of rumours to any of them.
It was a joke he won last year, but he was hardly fighting off much competition either. He's had one consistent run of good form for about 6 months at City in 08/09. The fact he hasn't come close to producing that before or since suggests that he probably hasn't.
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I don't, it's an assumption based on there hasn't even been the smallest hint of rumours to any of them.
It was a joke he won last year, but he was hardly fighting off much competition either. He's had one consistent run of good form for about 6 months at City in 08/09. The fact he hasn't come close to producing that before or since suggests that he probably hasn't.
Didn't he win it because it was based on the number of Man of the Match marks players received from fans on a website during that season?
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Gabby was linked with Sunderland, Ireland and Given were linked with QPR and Delph was linked with a return to Leeds IIRC. Those are the links that made print, it's quite possible that there were offers we didn't hear about.
I would have actually opted for Given as Player of the Year last season, but -as far as outfield players go- Ireland did make a decent contribution when he returned in the second half of the campaign. More 6/10 or 7/10 rather than consistently brilliant match winning performances, but measured against the rest of our outfield lot, that was probably enough.
It looked like he had something to build on this campaign, and most of us looked forward to him making the next leap - adding goals and assists. He looked OK up until the Wigan match at home this season, and has barely featured since. If he was one of the players we brought in on minimal wages, he might be worth persisting with. But at 60k + per week, we need more.
He was never Nigel Callaghan or Bosko Balaban bad though, despite his pantomime villain status around here.
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I don't, it's an assumption based on there hasn't even been the smallest hint of rumours to any of them.
It was a joke he won last year, but he was hardly fighting off much competition either. He's had one consistent run of good form for about 6 months at City in 08/09. The fact he hasn't come close to producing that before or since suggests that he probably hasn't.
Didn't he win it because it was based on the number of Man of the Match marks players received from fans on a website during that season?
Yep, Villa Lions I think it is. It's the same system every season for the Terrace Trophy.
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We could have finished 12th and McLeish would still have been sacked. It wasn't just league position that was undoing, more his really really shit standard of football.
This. Not to mention the fact that he proved he couldn't be trusted with any more money to improve the team given the signings he did make.
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Gabby was linked with Sunderland, Ireland and Given were linked with QPR and Delph was linked with a return to Leeds IIRC. Those are the links that made print, it's quite possible that there were offers we didn't hear about.
I would have actually opted for Given as Player of the Year last season, but -as far as outfield players go- Ireland did make a decent contribution when he returned in the second half of the campaign. More 6/10 or 7/10 rather than consistently brilliant match winning performances, but measured against the rest of our outfield lot, that was probably enough.
It looked like he had something to build on this campaign, and most of us looked forward to him making the next leap - adding goals and assists. He looked OK up until the Wigan match at home this season, and has barely featured since. If he was one of the players we brought in on minimal wages, he might be worth persisting with. But at 60k + per week, we need more.
He was never Nigel Callaghan or Bosko Balaban bad though, despite his pantomime villain status around here.
Those links though (which I had forgotten, apologies) show how low our players were held. Ex manager going for an old player, 2 at a side expected to be down the bottom, and a Championship side looking at taking back an ex player. Not really suitors for players with good prospects or who are on form. Not in my opinion anyway.
I don't have a problem with Ireland winning per se, as the competition was pretty much non existent. Although as an outfield player i'd have gone for Herd, purely based on he was just about the only outfield player who played to anything like he best ability, as limited as that may be.
My issue with Ireland is that for a player who obviously has talent i'm struggling to think of half a dozen 'great' games he's had. He's had a decent number of okay ones over the last 18 months or so, but to me he has already been overtaken by Westwood, a lad who was at Crewe a year ago.
The original point was it was a decent squad, I don't think it was when you look at it in depth. Some decent players on paper yes, but too many were either woefully out of form or heading towards the tail end of their careers.
The size of the overhaul is that our strongest 11 probably contains only 4 players who were here when Lambert arrived. Before he had arrived three of them had a combined total of less than 50 appearances, with a fair few of those as subs. And Gabby.
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How quickly we forget.
I think it's highly unlikely he'd have got the bullet for finishing 12th.
When we occupied that position earlier in the season, the vast majority of fans were prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. That We Don't Want McLeish site and some of our more extreme posters on here were lampooned.
He did get stick at Wigan away, true. But it was only during our winless run post March that the tide turned, and the McLeish Out brigade became the majority -when we looked in very real danger of going down.
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Plus with any link there's inevitably a decent dose of salt that comes with it. Would Gabby have ever been linked with Sunderland had MON not been manager? It just seems with most links it doesn't take much more than the most tenuous of associations.
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How quickly we forget.
I think it's highly unlikely he'd have got the bullet for finishing 12th.
When we occupied that position earlier in the season, the vast majority of fans were prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. That We Don't Want McLeish site and some of our more extreme posters on here were lampooned.
He did get stick at Wigan away, true. But it was only during our winless run post March that the tide turned, and the McLeish Out brigade became the majority -when we looked in very real danger of going down.
The majority of us were prepared to give him time because it was early in the season. As the season went on the football got worse, so even those of us who wanted him to succeed found it harder and harder to defend him and stand by him. It also gave more ammunition to those who mainly cared where he came from.
Simply, he was never accepted, for whatever reason, and that coupled with the truly abysmal football is why I think he'd have gone even if he'd finished 12th. Was his name EVER sung in a positive way? I was at pretty much every home game and can't remember it happening.
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The original point was it was a decent squad, I don't think it was when you look at it in depth. Some decent players on paper yes, but too many were either woefully out of form or heading towards the tail end of their careers.
See, to me, decent means just that.
Not great. Not even good, necessarily.
But when measured against most of the sides outside of the top 4/5, equally as good as (and in many cases better) than the rest.
Or were we inferior to Wigan, Southampton, Reading, Norwich, Swansea, WBA, West Ham, Stoke and Sunderland?
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The original point was it was a decent squad, I don't think it was when you look at it in depth. Some decent players on paper yes, but too many were either woefully out of form or heading towards the tail end of their careers.
See, to me, decent means just that.
Not great. Not even good, necessarily.
But when measured against most of the sides outside of the top 4/5, equally as good as (and in many cases better) than the rest.
Or were we inferior to Wigan, Southampton, Reading, Norwich, Swansea, WBA, West Ham, Stoke and Sunderland?
Yes, or not much better when based on form. The only thing we had going for us was the promise of some of the youngsters, and as Albrighton has proved, promise in a couple of dozen appearances means nothing.
As far as I know, this was the squad that Lambert inherited, not that good is it?
Petrov is excluded obviously.
Shay Given
Bret Holman
Alan Hutton
Stephen Warnock
Richard Dunne
James Collins
Stephen Ireland
Darren Bent
Charles N'Zogbia
Gabriel Agbonlahor
Marc Albrighton
Nathan Delfouneso
Fabian Delph
Jean Makoun
Ciaran Clark
Barry Bannan
Andreas Weimann
Enda Stevens
Eric Lichaj
Chris Herd
Nathan Baker
Andy Marshall
Daniel Johnson
Graham Burke
Derrick Williams
Gary Gardner
Samir Carruthers
Jack Grealish
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When measured against what, Arsenal or Manchester City's squad?
No.
When measured aganst 12-14 other sides who we compete with in the league, it's on a par, not a million miles off or better.
We clearly see the gaps more than fans of other clubs do, as it's personal to us. Look beyond the first XI of Olbiyun, Norwich, Swansea and the rest and you won't see much there either (Look beyond 4/5 Olbiyun players and you won't see much, truth be told).
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No, imo when measured against any other premier league squad. It's pretty dire. Given, injury and form worries. Dunne same. Hutton and Warnock, nothing needs to be said. Zog, poor 12 months. Gabby overall poor 2 years. Ireland, poor 3 years. Makoun, unsettled. Holman, an unkown. Bent, injured for months. It surprises me anyone can look at that squad and not see what a mess we were in.
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Given: Arguably our most important player last season. Dunne and Warnock - part of a solid Villa rearguard just over two years prior. N'Zog: Highly coveted at the time we signed him. Lack of funds prevented Everton and Sunderland following up their interest. Ireland: Player of the Year at two seperate clubs by the age of 24. Gabby: scored goals against all the top sides and always provides a threat with his pace, even when the goals dry up. Bent: £24 million One in two England forward.
It surprises me that anyone would suggest that the squad Lambert inherited was inferior to Wigan, Southampton, Reading, Norwich, Swansea, WBA, West Ham, Stoke and Sunderland: unless they wanted to make him out to be some sort of modern day miracle worker.
After all, if we weren't that much of a step up from Norwich and the squad was so 'dire,' why make the move?
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So you had no injury and form concerns over Given after the Euro's?
What Warnock and Dunne did 2 years previously is irrelevant. You had no concerns about Hutton and Warnock as fullbacks?
Zog being highly rated when we signed him is irrelevant, what he did in the 12 months he was at the club is, no conerns?
Ireland we've already covered. But i'll ask, you had no concerns?
Gabby, 8 goals in 60 games, and 6 months without a goal. Any concerns there?
Bent, injured for months, what he cost is also irrelevant. You weren't concerned how his injury may affect him?
I've never said he was a miracle worker, if he was we'd be top 8. The squad was poor with numerous question marks over it.
You'd have to ask him, i'm not Paul Lambert so don't know why he made the move. I could guess if you like?
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It's quite easy make judgements about a squad on paper. Look at QPR's squad who finished bottom. Then look at Swansea's squad that finished 9th (or even Smethwick). Let's face it, our so called 'good' and 'senior' players have been dross ever since MON left (bar Petrov who actually stepped up) and as a team we have generally looked like a lower-half relegation threatened team ever since his exit. The one thing I will say is that this season has probably vindicated TSM to an extent as we can probably see now that the squad he inherited actually wasn't that good. However as I also said, he didn't help himself by just bringing in more of the same. N'Zogbia and Hutton for a combined 14m FFS! After that, you just never trusted him to be the man to be given more money to rebuild the squad. Not to mention the football (or lack of) on offer. Surely that was the first season in our history that we scored less goals then games played? The contrast speaks for itself and most importantly we have a direction and we can foresee some light at the end of the tunnel.
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7.5 out of ten. For all the horrendous lows - and there has been a few - I think he's the right man at the right time. He's steadied the ship (albeit with some serious wobbles en route) and for the first time in years it feels like the good ship Aston Villa is heading in the right direction again. The key now is to keep it going - I reckon he's the man to do it.
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Work in progress, but since feb they have really improved. His signing have we great, repeat again and kick on
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Could have little complaints if he had been fired in January but since then things have improved , it took a long time to settle on a formation that suited the players and the 4-3-3 has been good for us - players have grown in confidence with results and he has done enough to deserve more time in the job to continue the rebuild.
His signings in the main have been very good with benteke, Lowton and Westwood superb and Bennett I'm sure will be an asset, Vlaar has been not as good as expected but may improve next year.
The players he inherited have let him down in the main but there are encouraging signs that we the nucleas of a team here that could finish top 10 at least next season.
My mark for lambert is 6.5/10 but with potential to improve things next year.
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7.5 out of ten. For all the horrendous lows - and there has been a few - I think he's the right man at the right time. He's steadied the ship (albeit with some serious wobbles en route) and for the first time in years it feels like the good ship Aston Villa is heading in the right direction again. The key now is to keep it going - I reckon he's the man to do it.
I think you have got it about right, Matt.
After the previous two seasons, Lambert inherited a dysfunctional and disjointed squad - a collection of mercenaries, saboteurs, planet-sized egos and callow youths.
We now have a squad of less callow and more talented youths who are united around a manager with a vision and purpose. A big difference from 12 months' previously.
There's still a big job to be done.
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For the first time since the summer of 2009, we're going into through the summer and into a new season with the same manager as the previous term.
Stability is massive in football.
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I agree. That's why we really need to keep hold of Benteke and Weimann. Having to rebuild the front three as well as significantly improve the defence and improve the overall squad would be a daunting prospect.
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Well, I guess that in terms of stature a squad consisting of players such as Given, Hutton, Warnock, Dunne, Bent, Gabby, Ireland, N'Zogbia, Collins (who Lambert sold) would look like solid Premiership quality (with a big gap in central midfield); one that should be floating around mid-table, and not one that should be fighting relegation. But if you look at the form of said players, there were reasons to be concerned. In some way it depends on how you see it I guess. Were the underperformance (with some temporary exceptions*) of said players due to their diminishing form or because of the underperformance of Houllier and McLeish?
*Like Bent under Houllier and Given (and to some extent Ireland) under McLeish.
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When lambert came in there was a general acknowledgement that a bif re-building job was needed. How many of us actually had any faith left in the Dunne/Collins/Warnock/Hutton defence? The needed replacing, especially given how Lambert wanted to play, so judging it on paper is mis-leading when at the time both he and us were judging it on what we saw from them in 12/12.
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All in al i think Lambert has done well with a young team to keep us up.
My major major concern is that if we do not spend on improving the defence, we will be in the same position again next season and let's be honest if you are fightling relegation for a 3rd season in a row, odds are you will eventually go down.
So in conclusion sort out the defence (CB, LB to push Bennet) and keep Benteke.
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First third of the season- 4/10
Middle third- 2/10
Last third- 8/10
Overall I'd give him a 6.5
Optimism level is good going into next season though. 2-3 decent defenders in. Midfield and attack competition and we'll be fairly comfortable in the top half.
We should aim for a minimum of 50 points next season.
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That's only 3 wins more than this season. Might as well aim for 60 points and if we fall short then it would still be considered a good improvement.
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That's only 3 wins more than this season. Might as well aim for 60 points and if we fall short then it would still be considered a good improvement.
I'd rather set a target we can smash with a month to spare. ;)
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So you had no injury and form concerns over Given after the Euro's?
What Warnock and Dunne did 2 years previously is irrelevant. You had no concerns about Hutton and Warnock as fullbacks?
Zog being highly rated when we signed him is irrelevant, what he did in the 12 months he was at the club is, no conerns?
Ireland we've already covered. But i'll ask, you had no concerns?
Gabby, 8 goals in 60 games, and 6 months without a goal. Any concerns there?
Bent, injured for months, what he cost is also irrelevant. You weren't concerned how his injury may affect him?
I've never said he was a miracle worker, if he was we'd be top 8. The squad was poor with numerous question marks over it.
You'd have to ask him, i'm not Paul Lambert so don't know why he made the move. I could guess if you like?
I had/ have concerns over a number of them.
But a good manager can knit together a disparate group of players and get them firing. Some won't buy into it, that's human nature. And some players -even if they're willing- won't fit the the managers blueprint.
But the point remains that the talent was there -with a bit of tinkering- to oversee more than another season at the arse end of the table. He didn't inherit Hull City. You don't have to go back into the dark recesses of time to find a period when Given, Dunne, Warnock, Ireland, N'Zog, Albrighton, Gabby and Bent were in good form and amongst the better performers in the division. Of those, only Given and Dunne could be considered old, or somewhat past their prime age wise. Fuck, even Hutton was playing well enough to get in ahead of Corluka and Walker during Tottingham's CL season. I freely admit I couldn't wait to see the back of him and Warnock mind, that's a given.
Even allowing for the cutbacks and change of momentum post 2010, we shouldn't be acclaiming any manager as some sort of 10/10 genius for ensuring survival. That should have been the absolute bare minimum this term -whoever was in charge.
What encourages me -like others- is our attacking intent this term, particularly the final third of the campaign. And that PL has been able to get something approximating form out of Delph.
I realise that for many (particularly on the internet) things are black or white. Lambert is either shite, a small time manager out of his depth. Or he is building the next Manchester United. I see him as a manager with promise -but a long way short of the finished article. Pretty much like his team at the moment.
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I realise that for many (particularly on the internet) things are black or white. Lambert is either shite, a small time manager out of his depth. Or he is building the next Manchester United. I see him as a manager with promise -but a long way short of the finished article. Pretty much like his team at the moment.
I don't think even the most fervent of his admirers on here would pump him up that much.
For all the back slapping over our survival, and the admiration of our new strategy, we barely managed to scrape survival. Next season has got to build on this, we have got to move on.
There's a really thin line between investing in young and upcoming players and having the nous - on and off the pitch, because you also find yourself having to deal with stuff like persuading Weimann and Benteke to stay - to build on that and make something exciting happen (ie, your role model is Borussia Dortmund) and just turning into a side who don't pay much for their players, but sell them on for a profit, and as a result, end up bobbing around the relegation zone year after year (ie, you're really Wigan Athletic).
The young, hungry thing is fine if it is built on, but it's also a convenient excuse for cheapness and lack of ambition. The point at which people start to suspect it is more of the latter is the point at which they'll turn on Lambert.
Here's hoping that never happens.
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That's my concern too Paulie.
We all knew that there was plenty of fat to be cut from the wage bill, and that our income didn't justify having players on £40k per week + killing time on the bench (it still doesn't).
But there is a difference between that and aiming to field a team full of players on Championship wages.
Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery an' all, but if funds are still streched (even with the new TV deal) a more realistic model to follow is Everton. On average, they might make one big signing on decent wages per summer - not 4/5, as we have done in the past.
Traditionally, their income is lower than ours. Yet they can afford to pay Howard, Jagielka, Baines, Heitinga, Coleman, Fellaini, Pienaar, Jelavic and co competitive salaries.
So the focus should never be make the wage bill as low as possible (that way, Herbert-style mediocrity lies). Rather, it should be making sure the right wages go to the right players.
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I disagree with giving 10/10 as much as I disagree he inherited a decent squad. I still don't see how you can class it as decent when you admit that you had concerns over a number of them. Still, we'll just keep round in circles on that one.
And as Paulie says, I don't think anyone is building him that much. Just that we like what he's trying to do.
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Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery an' all, but if funds are still streched (even with the new TV deal) a more realistic model to follow is Everton. On average, they might make one big signing on decent wages per summer - not 4/5, as we have done in the past.
When you look at Everton under Moyes, their side during that time has always had a good mix of homegrown players, players bought from the lower leagues and the odd fairly expensive signing (often bought after they have sold one of their players for decent money). It's a template we could quite easily follow over the next few years.
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I'm glad we're following the Lambert model. I don't want to follow any other, Everton included. Yes, it meant the time up until the end of January was grim, but since then Villa have not played anything like a relegation threatened team, and next year they'll get better.
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I think Lambert was unlucky last season and was forced to play more young/inexperienced players than he'd planned to. I think he believed he had a good spine to the team - bringing Guzan back with Given as back-up, Vlaar and Dunne (both experienced internationals) at CB, KEA (experienced in top Dutch teams and played best part of 200 games at international level) in MF, and Benteke (what a find) and Bent up top - and this spine could be supplemented by players like Lowton, Bennett, Westwood and others while they got up to speed. Unfortunately injuries to Dunne meant Clark and Baker were played more than they should have been, and KEA hasn't really delivered. Hopefully he'll address the CB and dominant MF in the summer, and I believe we'll really kick on next season.
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Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery an' all, but if funds are still streched (even with the new TV deal) a more realistic model to follow is Everton. On average, they might make one big signing on decent wages per summer - not 4/5, as we have done in the past.
When you look at Everton under Moyes, their side during that time has always had a good mix of homegrown players, players bought from the lower leagues and the odd fairly expensive signing (often bought after they have sold one of their players for decent money). It's a template we could quite easily follow over the next few years.
The key is keeping players. Everton could have sold Baines and Fallani last 2 summers but kept them. Ditto Cahill time and again. Pienaar went when he was already probably past his best and came back quick. Jagielka has stuck it out. Considering how good some of their players have been, to have kept most of them is a testament to Moyes.
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Lambert won me over in the first match at West Ham, I hadn't been to keen before that.
I thought it might have been a difficult season in many ways, but I never expected a relegation dog fight I have to admit, comfortable mid table was what I was expecting
i still enjoyed it though, because of the way we were at least trying to play, i think this is something picked up by others in the media, last season it was just pure purgatory,
so all in all most enjoyable season since MON's first two, and more confident about the future than i have been for at least 4 seasons
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That's my concern too Paulie.
We all knew that there was plenty of fat to be cut from the wage bill, and that our income didn't justify having players on £40k per week + killing time on the bench (it still doesn't).
But there is a difference between that and aiming to field a team full of players on Championship wages.
Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery an' all, but if funds are still streched (even with the new TV deal) a more realistic model to follow is Everton. On average, they might make one big signing on decent wages per summer - not 4/5, as we have done in the past.
Traditionally, their income is lower than ours. Yet they can afford to pay Howard, Jagielka, Baines, Heitinga, Coleman, Fellaini, Pienaar, Jelavic and co competitive salaries.
So the focus should never be make the wage bill as low as possible (that way, Herbert-style mediocrity lies). Rather, it should be making sure the right wages go to the right players.
I don't think Everton are particularly more generous with their salaries than we are, there doesn't seem to be much evidence to suggest it, anyway, but you're right in that they pay the big money to the right people, which is something we have conspicuously failed to do for several years now.
What Everton do manage to do well is persuade their best players to stay with the club.
That's what we need to do, and it's going to be nigh on impossible if we spend much more time than we have (and this is the third season of it now) at the arse end of the table.
I don't think for a moment Lambert's plan is to just fight relegation year after year, but the whole club - not just the manager - needs to be geared towards improving ourselves.
If the plan to do that this summer is to just buy more unproven lower league players then I think we are really going to struggle again. It's true, the likes of Westwood and Lowton (although it wasn't too long ago a few people on here were slaughtering him) have shown that they can step up, but the reason we've spent the year fighting relegation is largely because it was a very large step up to expect almost a whole team to make at the same time.
The likes of Lowton and Westwood are a season more experienced now, so will be better for it next term, but sufficiently improved to become the experienced heads in the side? I don't think so.
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Have to be honest but I am starting to have a love fest over Lambert and I don't know why. I just watched his brief chat on the FFS and I love everything he says ( what I can understand ), his philosophy, his pride in the shirt and a sense that he actually has a true affection for the club.
I believe in you Lambo and everything you do. Good luck next season...babe! :o)
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Have to be honest but I am starting to have a love fest over Lambert and I don't know why. I just watched his brief chat on the FFS and I love everything he says ( what I can understand ), his philosophy, his pride in the shirt and a sense that he actually has a true affection for the club.
I believe in you Lambo and everything you do. Good luck next season...babe! :o)
I'm with you on this. He's almost like one of us with his ideals.
Wanting players who see playing for us not just as a job but who really want to wear the shirt, emphasis on an attacking style of play that entertains, developing younger hungrier players and make progress year on year. I think this is what is transmitting to the fans and why we have faith in him. Compare that with the last two years of MON, then seasons of GH and McLeish.
I'm getting a vibe of how the club used to be in the late 70's almost. If we kick on next season and there's no reason why we cant then I think we will go on to be a force once again.
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Have to be honest but I am starting to have a love fest over Lambert and I don't know why. I just watched his brief chat on the FFS and I love everything he says ( what I can understand ), his philosophy, his pride in the shirt and a sense that he actually has a true affection for the club.
I believe in you Lambo and everything you do. Good luck next season...babe! :o)
I'm with you on this. He's almost like one of us with his ideals.
Wanting players who see playing for us not just as a job but who really want to wear the shirt, emphasis on an attacking style of play that entertains, developing younger hungrier players and make progress year on year. I think this is what is transmitting to the fans and why we have faith in him. Compare that with the last two years of MON, then seasons of GH and McLeish.
I'm getting a vibe of how the club used to be in the late 70's almost. If we kick on next season and there's no reason why we cant then I think we will go on to be a force once again.
Bit too young to remember or certainly appreciate that era. I do think we could be in for a early to mid 90's when we had BFR who gave us a huge profile and some great football (until it fizzed out rather too quickly) and the Little who had to do some surgery and produced another fine team to watch.
Let's hope so.
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John Gregory tweeted the other day that he had spoken to PL at the LMA dinner and he had said it was his aim to finish top half at least
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John Gregory tweeted the other day that he had spoken to PL at the LMA dinner and he had said it was his aim to finish top half at least
That's realistic.
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you get the impression he has a very steely determination top do things a certain way and have players of a certain type. That he protects his players almost to a fault, but I imagine he can be nasty fucker if need be. I think in time he'll be everything Moyes has become and will produce teams that are always competitive and always in with a shout of things. We've needed that for such a long time. While it's nice to have a star player or two come in, Moyes helps create them. Fellaini, Jagielka or Baines weren't the stars they are today before joining Everton, just as Benteke, Westwood and Lowton are now becoming for us. That in most cases creates loyalty. I'm sure that in 3 or 4 years time when the current structure has properly bedded in, you'll see us so much more solid and stable as a club.
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you get the impression he has a very steely determination top do things a certain way and have players of a certain type. That he protects his players almost to a fault, but I imagine he can be nasty fucker if need be. I think in time he'll be everything Moyes has become and will produce teams that are always competitive and always in with a shout of things. We've needed that for such a long time. While it's nice to have a star player or two come in, Moyes helps create them. Fellaini, Jagielka or Baines weren't the stars they are today before joining Everton, just as Benteke, Westwood and Lowton are now becoming for us. That in most cases creates loyalty. I'm sure that in 3 or 4 years time when the current structure has properly bedded in, you'll see us so much more solid and stable as a club.
Sure. And I cannot see Everton capitulating like we did either. They've built a very solid foundation there. They've probably punched above their weight largely under Moyes too. Falling back to mid-table wouldn't be disastrous. I don't see them having 3 years of relegation troubles by any stretch (unless they hire a complete numpty). They've got solid players, a good academy, and even if they sell their better players, will have the funds from that to re-invest.
That's what I'm hoping for us. Any success we might build over the next 3 years, we need to maintain. If we find ourselves selling a couple of decent players, and fall a few places in a season after some success that's acceptable. Going from 6th, 3 years running, to relegation struggles 3 years running is not acceptable and cannot happen again. I do think for all Randy's faults he's put in place an ethos, and potentially the right manager, to ensure something like that won't happen again.
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The comparison to Moyes is hopefully an apt one. Moyes had a slow start at Everton too although he probably took over a worse squad. The decent finish to the season hints at better times ahead but we cant gloss over the majority of the season. Managers like players develop, Lambert is far from the finished article but has shown enough promise for us to persevere with him certainly.
On the positives, obviously his big signing Benteke was a huge success. Bringing back Guzan and starting him worked out better than any of us could have anticipated. Westwood showed huge promise in the second half of the season. At times we played some fantastic football going forward near the end of the season with attacking full backs, ball playing midfielders and three strikers in form. Gabby's career was rescued from what seemed terminal decline in the second half of the season, Delph went from the form of a non-league player to one of a very decent midfield player. Lambert deserves a lot of credit from these success stories and its clear he cares deeply about the club and is highly ambitious. When characters like David O'Leary and Houllier are some of his more recent predecessors, this shouldnt be taken for granted and the soundbites have kept the support onside also.
However it has to be stated that the Villa side that started the season was an absolute rabble. Im not sure what was happening in pre-season but it was clear from early on that Lambert nor the players had any clue what tactics we were employing. This rabble persisted pretty much until half time in the Newcastle home game in February. Every different type of formation was used with players being consistently brought in and then out of the side. Lambert for me seemed to stumble on our best formation in February which proved to be just in time to stop what seemed inevitable relegation. It should not have taken until that long in the season that find a formation that got the best out of our players. There were some horrible games playing 442/4231 with Kea and Delph getting in each others way and the likes of Brett Holman embarrassing himself out wide. Losing to Bradford over 2 legs probably put to bed the best chance Lambert will ever have of winning a trophy at the club unfortunately.
Certainly an area where he badly needs to improve is his use of substitutions. This hurt us consistently during the season, the away game in Stoke being the case in point. I cant think of any occasions where his proactive changes helped us win football games. While the attacking play of Lowton and Bennett improved at the end of the season, some of their defending was so bad there was nearly universal demand for Hutton and Warnock to be brought back into the side at one stage around Xmas. The decision to go into the season with only 3 centre halves proved disastrous as Dunne never regained fitness and all three of Clark, Baker and Vlaar struggled. Some of our football isnt all that pleasant, hitting all freekicks won around the half way line direct to Benteke still particularly annoys me.
How can Lambert as a manager improve next season? Naturally holding onto our better players and some quality signings will help but I think some additions off the pitch would help him hugely too. I think Lambert would thrive as a manager in having someone like Brian Little either as assistant manager or at least on the board. Sometimes he really struggles on seeing where things are going wrong in a game and his faith in some of the players was badly misplaced on occasion. Its important to remember that Little's first season at Villa was far from a success as we barely avoided relegation. However Little was not afraid to have the likes of Allan Evans and John Gregory on his staff. Both very strong characters but it was a nice blend with a former defender, midfielder and forward in the coaching staff. Think I recall an interview with Dwight Yorke at the time that suggested Villa's relative success at the time was down to the coaching staff and how the Evans, Gregory and Little worked really well together. With Culverhouse spending much of his time at Villa Park rowing with fans behind the dug out, this is an area where I think we need to strengthen too.
Incidentally Little was never as successful as a manager again without Evans and Gregory by his side.
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Also, on the point of Benteke, how many managers would played him in front of Bent, even had they signed him?
Not many I'd guess, they'd have drip fed him in. It took balls to make that call given he was just into the job, and after much wailing initially within six months every one agreed.
It's things like that that make me think we've got someone who with luck and support could take us further than we probably believe we're capable of.
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The discussion on squad strength sort of mirrors the question mark over how much we needed 'experience'. My thoughts at the time were we had plenty of experience, but they were all so fucking flakey.
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That's just it though. I don't think we should discount experience on the back of some shockingly poor signings - which includes the financial package- over the past 3 or 4 years. I'd prefer a manager who can identify the right player regardless of age. I like the Lambert philosophy and if he gets it right then we are going to be in for quite a few exciting seasons. Get it wrong and we'll be full of unproven youngsters who ultimately were inconsistent, brilliant at their best but shocking at their worst - and we'll just be delaying the inevitable.
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Also, on the point of Benteke, how many managers would played him in front of Bent, even had they signed him?
Not many I'd guess, they'd have drip fed him in. It took balls to make that call given he was just into the job, and after much wailing initially within six months every one agreed.
It's things like that that make me think we've got someone who with luck and support could take us further than we probably believe we're capable of.
He had made Bent his captain too. So he's humble enough to reverse a decision if he feels the need. We've seen managers be frustratingly stubborn just to soothe their own ego before now.
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Also, on the point of Benteke, how many managers would played him in front of Bent, even had they signed him?
There's not many managers who would have dropped Given either.
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Also, on the point of Benteke, how many managers would played him in front of Bent, even had they signed him?
Not many I'd guess, they'd have drip fed him in. It took balls to make that call given he was just into the job, and after much wailing initially within six months every one agreed.
It's things like that that make me think we've got someone who with luck and support could take us further than we probably believe we're capable of.
He had made Bent his captain too. So he's humble enough to reverse a decision if he feels the need. We've seen managers be frustratingly stubborn just to soothe their own ego before now.
dont think Bent was a good choice initially for captain, even at his best he is rarely involved in games. I know Lambert is saying now that be brought in Benteke to play alongside Bent but I dont think he handled the decision to drop him all that well. Told him in the dressing room before a game wasnt it that the captaincy was gone? Bent seem to go crying to the papers after it. We went through a multitude of captain this year with little or no success and its something that needs to be rectified in the summer.
Not bringing in someone to replace Petrov as a leader in the squad was a big error from Lambert last summer, especially as a former midfielder himself. perhaps he expected El Ahmadi to be that player in midfield but that faith was badly misplaced. Vlaar too is nothing like a captain for me, calamity central.
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It's a bit harsh calling him calamity central. He has a point to prove for sure. I expect big things from him next season. Some players can adapt to a new league straight away some take a good season to find their feet. Vlaar is an international and I think will come good.
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It's a bit harsh calling him calamity central. He has a point to prove for sure. I expect big things from him next season. Some players can adapt to a new league straight away some take a good season to find their feet. Vlaar is an international and I think will come good.
Vlaar was pound for pound our poorest player last season. Big things were expected from him when he signed. I thought he'd be a strong leader and an absolute rock at the back but he was neither.
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Completely agree SH, he was abysmal. If you're going to turn up with a ludicrous nickname, you at least have to be competent.
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It's a bit harsh calling him calamity central. He has a point to prove for sure. I expect big things from him next season. Some players can adapt to a new league straight away some take a good season to find their feet. Vlaar is an international and I think will come good.
Vlaar was pound for pound our poorest player last season. Big things were expected from him when he signed. I thought he'd be a strong leader and an absolute rock at the back but he was neither.
Pound for pound? That award has to go to Dunney, no? Or maybe Ireland, who for all the pounds we have given him has yet to produce a meaningful display. Vlaar had a debut season interrupted by injury, playing alongside 3 youngsters finding their way in the Premier League. To say he was our worst player is harsh at the very least.
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It's a bit harsh calling him calamity central. He has a point to prove for sure. I expect big things from him next season. Some players can adapt to a new league straight away some take a good season to find their feet. Vlaar is an international and I think will come good.
Vlaar was pound for pound our poorest player last season. Big things were expected from him when he signed. I thought he'd be a strong leader and an absolute rock at the back but he was neither.
Pound for pound? That award has to go to Dunney, no? Or maybe Ireland, who for all the pounds we have given him has yet to produce a meaningful display. Vlaar had a debut season interrupted by injury, playing alongside 3 youngsters finding their way in the Premier League. To say he was our worst player is harsh at the very least.
It's not only harsh, it's a It's a bit harsh calling him calamity central. He has a point to prove for sure. I expect big things from him next season. Some players can adapt to a new league straight away some take a good season to find their feet. Vlaar is an international and I think will come good.
Vlaar was pound for pound our poorest player last season. Big things were expected from him when he signed. I thought he'd be a strong leader and an absolute rock at the back but he was neither.
Pound for pound? That award has to go to Dunney, no? Or maybe Ireland, who for all the pounds we have given him has yet to produce a meaningful display. Vlaar had a debut season interrupted by injury, playing alongside 3 youngsters finding their way in the Premier League. To say he was our worst player is harsh at the very least.
It's not only harsh, it's plain wrong.
Had he not been injured when he was we'd probably have avoided our mid season collapse and finished mid table.
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Completely agree SH, he was abysmal. If you're going to turn up with a ludicrous nickname, you at least have to be competent.
No he was'nt abysmal at all. He was ok, not great but not poor either. He got better as the season went on but he certinlay was'nt abysmal.
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If he's as bad next year with no improvement then I'll go along with the criticism. But as others have pointed out, he was playing along side young defenders, some very green. I imagine the pace of the league is something lots of defenders have to get use to. He improved as the season wore on. Couldn't see the likes of Dunne pitching in with those types of goals either. And at important moments of the games too.
He has got improvements to make I'm not denying that. But he certainly wasn't the worst player this season. Nor was he abysmal or a calamity.
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Vlaar is/was hardly abysmal.
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I can see Vlaar having a good second season. I like the way he brings the ball out of defence. Those around him have to improve too, to give him the freedom, but I think it will become a feature of our play next year.
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I can see Vlaar having a good second season.
Yes, i can as well. Some players take time to settle and he has struggled at times but i reckon he'll be miles better next season.
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I think people have been very harsh on Vlaar. It's his first season in England, which is always tough for players arriving from joke leagues, and on top of that he's come in with responsibility for single-handedly marshalling a defence made up of kids with little idea of how to defend. And even with all of that, we still looked miles better with him in the team. When he got injured, we looked like an Under 11 side at the back.
I think all things considered, he did pretty well and if we sign some actual defenders for him to play alongside, he'll impress us all next season.
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Hopefully Risso's words will have the same effect on Vlaar as they had on Benteke and Delph when he was slating them :P
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I think people have been very harsh on Vlaar. It's his first season in England, which is always tough for players arriving from joke leagues, and on top of that he's come in with responsibility for single-handedly marshalling a defence made up of kids with little idea of how to defend. And even with all of that, we still looked miles better with him in the team. When he got injured, we looked like an Under 11 side at the back.
I think all things considered, he did pretty well and if we sign some actual defenders for him to play alongside, he'll impress us all next season.
He was utterly hopeless in the cup games against lower league opposition. Even in the league after the new year, we averaged nearly 2 goals a game against and failed to keep a clean sheet. Not all his fault, but he was as bad as everybody else.
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I think people have been very harsh on Vlaar. It's his first season in England, which is always tough for players arriving from joke leagues, and on top of that he's come in with responsibility for single-handedly marshalling a defence made up of kids with little idea of how to defend. And even with all of that, we still looked miles better with him in the team. When he got injured, we looked like an Under 11 side at the back.
I think all things considered, he did pretty well and if we sign some actual defenders for him to play alongside, he'll impress us all next season.
He was utterly hopeless in the cup games against lower league opposition. Even in the league after the new year, we averaged nearly 2 goals a game against and failed to keep a clean sheet. Not all his fault, but he was as bad as everybody else.
The defence improved after the new year and last season will have been a massive learning curve for them. Lowton had a decent first season, Baker and Vlaar were ok. Bennett struggled with it and it showed at times and i don't think Clark is a centre half anyway.
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Completely agree SH
Breaking news on H&V...
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So three out of four of our defence all had good seasons, and yet we conceded 69 goals in 38 games. It might have improved after the New Year, but given how bad it was in December, that isn't saying much. We still didn't keep a clean sheet.
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I'm not saying our defence is quality by any means but I think we also need to bear mind how attack minded we are as a team now. For me this is a massive factor in the lack of clean sheets.
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Hate to agree with Risso and SH but I think Vlaar is the worst Dutch footballer I have seen. Not even as good as the horrific Heitinga at Everton!
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I take it you never saw Marco Boogers?
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Vlaar looked dodgy at the start big time but I do think he was improving until he got that injury in November. He was very good when we went down to 10 v Norwich, played his part in the clean sheet at Sunderland, played well against Man. United despite the 3 goals and we were comfortably holding Arsenal until he went off.
He's no Laursen or Mellberg but he's comfortable on the ball at least. Think he's better with Baker than Clark aswell.
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John Gregory tweeted the other day that he had spoken to PL at the LMA dinner and he had said it was his aim to finish top half at least
Agreed top 10 is realistic if we sign some defenders and keep Benteke.
I think the three promoted teams are garbage, inevitably the likes of Swansea and WBA will dip aswell and then you have standard bottom half teams like Stoke and Fulham.
Of course other teams will improve, Newcastle will surely be better, Sunderland are impossible to predict and I think Southampton could do very well next year but yeah top 10 isn't impossible at all.
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Don't know about Newcastle. From some of the rumours it seems that there are cliques being created with the French connection, and there is some dressing room tension. Throw in that twat Pardew for another season and his smug punchable face and they could be in danger again.
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I reckon Newcastle will be shit again next year.
The fans all hate Pardew, too. That is one club where I don't expect the fans to be very optimistic.
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I take it you never saw Marco Boogers?
Or Bert 'Bombscare Bertie' Konterman?
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Unless Andi or Benteke go then i'd expect us to be top 10 next season. We were only 5 points off it this season.
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Bloo
I take it you never saw Marco Boogers?
Or Bert 'Bombscare Lambert' Konterman?
Bloody wordfilter - I said Bert ie.
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I reckon Newcastle will be shit again next year.
The fans all hate Pardew, too. That is one club where I don't expect the fans to be very optimistic.
They still have good players though. Ben Arfa if he stays fit and Cabaye are both excellent. Cisse can score with the right service.
Last year they reminded me so much of us in the 10/11 season as they did have a lot of injuries particularly in the midfield.
Yeah it's fair to say Pardew won't last the season. Could be the bet for first manager to go.
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He's got 6 years left on his contract so it might not be as easy to shift him. What the fuck were they thinking giving that tosser 8 years? You have to think it was late at night when they'd all been out on the lash. Pardew probably drew up the contract on a napkin at a strip club and the owner, too fucked to know any better signed it with a pen hanging out of his mouth.
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Hate to agree with Risso and SH but I think Vlaar is the worst Dutch footballer I have seen. Not even as good as the horrific Heitinga at Everton!
hes the only dutch international Ive never heard of
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....but he has scored two crackers ;)
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I think with Vlaar we all expected a much better player than we got due to his reputation. To be honest, maybe we were foolish to expect to get a top Dutch international to Villa Park, for what we paid for him (£3million?) and to expect some kind of McGrath-esque defensive colossus following his Euros performances. He's not a bad player, there's just a short fall between expectations and what we got. He's certainly at least twice as a good as Richard Fucking Dunne or James Sodding Collins. Like Percy I think we'll see a better player next season.
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And this thing about his nickname. I was to do with his recovery from injury as opposed to him being hard as nails which we got carried away with. He'll be fine with a good CB next to him and it is so melodramatic to say he's shit, because he isn't at all.
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I think with Vlaar we all expected a much better player than we got due to his reputation. To be honest, maybe we were foolish to expect to get a top Dutch international to Villa Park, for what we paid for him (£3million?) and to expect some kind of McGrath-esque defensive colossus following his Euros performances. He's not a bad player, there's just a short fall between expectations and what we got. He's certainly at least twice as a good as Richard Fucking Dunne or James Sodding Collins. Like Percy I think we'll see a better player next season.
Dunne and Collins on the whole were a decent partnership at Villa. How on earth anyone can claim the hapless Vlaar is "at least twice as good as that pair" after the season he's just given us is beyond me.
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And this thing about his nickname. I was to do with his recovery from injury as opposed to him being hard as nails which we got carried away with. He'll be fine with a good CB next to him and it is so melodramatic to say he's shit, because he isn't at all.
This.
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I think with Vlaar we all expected a much better player than we got due to his reputation. To be honest, maybe we were foolish to expect to get a top Dutch international to Villa Park, for what we paid for him (£3million?) and to expect some kind of McGrath-esque defensive colossus following his Euros performances. He's not a bad player, there's just a short fall between expectations and what we got. He's certainly at least twice as a good as Richard Fucking Dunne or James Sodding Collins. Like Percy I think we'll see a better player next season.
Dunne and Collins on the whole were a decent partnership at Villa...
And should have been for the money they were on. I agree that defensively they were reasonably rock-solid, if a little immobile against a quick forward line.
But ultimately they were a large part of the post-MON problem of egos and spats and piss-heads and all the other stuff.
Vlaar will get better; those two were in the end just two more ageing parasites.
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I reckon Newcastle will be shit again next year.
The fans all hate Pardew, too. That is one club where I don't expect the fans to be very optimistic.
They still have good players though. Ben Arfa if he stays fit and Cabaye are both excellent. Cisse can score with the right service.
Last year they reminded me so much of us in the 10/11 season as they did have a lot of injuries particularly in the midfield.
Yeah it's fair to say Pardew won't last the season. Could be the bet for first manager to go.
Cabaye has had an awful season, basically played as if he doesn't care - they turned down a move to Spurs in the summer for him and he has had his arse in his hands all season. Tiote has also had an awful one. Ben Arfa seems to not even get played that much when fit, which I don't really understand.
I think their most influential player is Coloccini, and he is off back to Argentina.
It will be a tough season for them. Their sink into the relegation fight was impressive stuff - for months they were utterly awful. They managed (prior to the last day) one away win all season (guess where!)
Pardew is on relatively stable ground, too. He's an old casino mate of Ashley (and the former manager of their casino is now running the club). Just last week Ashley was talking in the press about the need for stability.
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I think with Vlaar we all expected a much better player than we got due to his reputation. To be honest, maybe we were foolish to expect to get a top Dutch international to Villa Park, for what we paid for him (£3million?) and to expect some kind of McGrath-esque defensive colossus following his Euros performances. He's not a bad player, there's just a short fall between expectations and what we got. He's certainly at least twice as a good as Richard Fucking Dunne or James Sodding Collins. Like Percy I think we'll see a better player next season.
Dunne and Collins on the whole were a decent partnership at Villa. How on earth anyone can claim the hapless Vlaar is "at least twice as good as that pair" after the season he's just given us is beyond me.
James Collins had a fine season at West Ham, certainly his form pissed all over Ron Vlaar's. If anything Collins proved that the decision to replace him with Vlaar was the wrong one on the evidence of their respective performances on the pitch. Collins surely wouldnt have been beaten up a stick against mighty Bradford unlike Vlaar for example. Vlaar is shite in the air too, to be fair to Collins thats the one aspect of his game that he is very strong in.
.....and I'm not saying that Collins is a worldbeater and his limitations on the ball and positionally were obvious towards the end of his time at particular. But give him the role of a basic defensive stopper to complete like MON and Allardyce did and he will do it well. Lambert is looking for his central defenders to be better on the ball but Baker is worse than Collins ever was in terms of ball playing ability.
Dunne was our best central defender we had when he played. We went to complete shit at the back after he got injured last season.
But the general consensus on here always was that Cuellar was better than the pair of them ::)
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Collins is an average CB at best and wanted to go back to West Ham. Revsionism aside he made a balls up of things with us on numerous occasions. Now would he have been better than Clark or Baker in terms of experience and stability, I'd say yes, but he's no better than Vlaar, and certainly not the leader Vlaar is.
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I reckon Newcastle will be shit again next year.
The fans all hate Pardew, too. That is one club where I don't expect the fans to be very optimistic.
They still have good players though. Ben Arfa if he stays fit and Cabaye are both excellent. Cisse can score with the right service.
Last year they reminded me so much of us in the 10/11 season as they did have a lot of injuries particularly in the midfield.
Yeah it's fair to say Pardew won't last the season. Could be the bet for first manager to go.
Cabaye has had an awful season, basically played as if he doesn't care - they turned down a move to Spurs in the summer for him and he has had his arse in his hands all season. Tiote has also had an awful one. Ben Arfa seems to not even get played that much when fit, which I don't really understand.
I think their most influential player is Coloccini, and he is off back to Argentina.
It will be a tough season for them. Their sink into the relegation fight was impressive stuff - for months they were utterly awful. They managed (prior to the last day) one away win all season (guess where!)
Pardew is on relatively stable ground, too. He's an old casino mate of Ashley (and the former manager of their casino is now running the club). Just last week Ashley was talking in the press about the need for stability.
I think Norwich, Sunderland and Newcastle are all very lucky that what is coming up at the moment, looks absolutely abysmal.
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The Collins I saw on MOTD this year was typical Collins. Some decent defending, plenty of throw yourself in the way and pray moments and a fair few rickets. He might be better right now than Baker and Clark, but it's not by much and at least they may improve.
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The Collins I saw on MOTD this year was typical Collins. Some decent defending, plenty of throw yourself in the way and pray moments and a fair few rickets. He might be better right now than Baker and Clark, but it's not by much and at least they may improve.
correct. It's all good and well watching clips of any player. You could make a Harewood or Heskey look good in 5 minutes on YouTube. But Collins epitomised Desperate Dan last minute defending which can help but more often than not means he's been pulled out of position. Something you only really notice when he plays for you and you get to watch his entire body of work, warts and all.
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Collins made some awful mistakes at times during his second stint at West Ham, I would rather see if Breeze Block Ron will improve next season after a full season in England.
Breeze Blocks will crumble under pressure.
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Collins! FFS he was dross and still is dross luckily Lambert saw that very early on and got shot.
Vlaar is no world beater, no Macca and has proved at times to be a liability but those who are old enough to remember Ken McNaughts 1st season at VP will know it can take time to settle.
I'm optimistic that he will prove next season that he is the leader that we all hoped for when he signed.
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The Collins I saw on MOTD this year was typical Collins. Some decent defending, plenty of throw yourself in the way and pray moments and a fair few rickets. He might be better right now than Baker and Clark, but it's not by much and at least they may improve.
Baker is the epitome of that type of defending and I think always will be. That's his game. Clark has also hit his ceiling - he is simply not good enough in that position. Centre half should be the number one priority for building on this season. 69 goals conceded was just woeful.
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The Collins I saw on MOTD this year was typical Collins. Some decent defending, plenty of throw yourself in the way and pray moments and a fair few rickets. He might be better right now than Baker and Clark, but it's not by much and at least they may improve.
Baker is the epitome of that type of defending and I think always will be. That's his game. Clark has also hit his ceiling - he is simply not good enough in that position. Centre half should be the number one priority for building on this season. 69 goals conceded was just woeful.
Clark's hit his ceiling at 23?
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Clark is not a central defender.
That's one thing I'll never agree with Lambert on.
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I'm with you on that. Persevering with him there has put Clark back in his development. He hasn't the make up or ability to be a commanding central defender. Try him in midfield, or better still, impress enough to get a starting position there.
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Collins is an average CB at best and wanted to go back to West Ham. Revsionism aside he made a balls up of things with us on numerous occasions. Now would he have been better than Clark or Baker in terms of experience and stability, I'd say yes, but he's no better than Vlaar, and certainly not the leader Vlaar is.
He also thinks he is Paul Scholes when it comes to long balls. Our Possession game starts from the back and he wouldn't have been able to play it.
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Clark is not a central defender.
That's one thing I'll never agree with Lambert on.
I can only think that Lambert has a clear idea as to his 'type' of midfielder, and Clark doesn't fit that particular template.
We play a sort of low rent Barcelona lite system, that is technically sound (ish) midfielders with plenty of energy pressing high up the pitch, and snapping at the heels of the opposition when we don't have the ball. Doesn't always work, of course.
Clark isn't really mobile enough to fulfill that role, but - as he illustrated in 2011/12- he can sit deep in midfield and help to break up the play. His technique is OK, rather than great, he's OK in the air and can weigh in with goals, if given the chance.
Perhaps Lambert tried him there in training during the summer and just didn't like the look of him. "He's not a midfielder," being the quote. Roughly translated as he's not my kind of midfielder.
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I'm with you on that. Persevering with him there has put Clark back in his development. He hasn't the make up or ability to be a commanding central defender. Try him in midfield, or better still, impress enough to get a starting position there.
I have mentioned this before, but I saw the forum thing he did with WM at the start of the season and he was really dismissive of the idea of Clark in midfield - laughing it off, "he's no midfielder" - so I doubt we'll see him there, which is a shame.
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Collins is an average CB at best and wanted to go back to West Ham. Revsionism aside he made a balls up of things with us on numerous occasions. Now would he have been better than Clark or Baker in terms of experience and stability, I'd say yes, but he's no better than Vlaar, and certainly not the leader Vlaar is.
He also thinks he is Paul Scholes when it comes to long balls. Our Possession game starts from the back and he wouldn't have been able to play it.
The only thing he has in common with Paul Scholes is the ginger hair.
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They both have the same tackling ability as well.
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Vlaar shouldnt have played v Bradford, he was not fit enough. While I agree he has not had a great start to his Villa career, I dont think he has been that bad. It does take time for some people to settle, someone mentioned Ken Mcnaught a little earlier and in his first season he got pelters (partly cos he had taken over from Chris Nicholl). I think he has a positive effect on the team and hope he gets some more assistance in the centre next time out.
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I vote Lambert IN. I am keen to see where this is all going. Agree with others on here in reference to Clark. He is not a central defender. The debate about Vlaar, I am very unimpressed. I hope, like Petrov, he gets better with time.
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I think with Vlaar we all expected a much better player than we got due to his reputation. To be honest, maybe we were foolish to expect to get a top Dutch international to Villa Park, for what we paid for him (£3million?) and to expect some kind of McGrath-esque defensive colossus following his Euros performances. He's not a bad player, there's just a short fall between expectations and what we got. He's certainly at least twice as a good as Richard Fucking Dunne or James Sodding Collins. Like Percy I think we'll see a better player next season.
Dunne and Collins on the whole were a decent partnership at Villa. How on earth anyone can claim the hapless Vlaar is "at least twice as good as that pair" after the season he's just given us is beyond me.
Collins lived off 09/10 so much, he was poor afterwards imo plus you had the off the field issues.
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I agree Collins was useless after the initial season, Dunne, while he did not reach the same heights, was more than a reasonable defender IMHO.
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Lambert's "to do" list for the new season. Sums things up quite well:
http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/astonvilla/id/770?&cc=5739
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Lambert's "to do" list for the new season. Sums things up quite well:
http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/astonvilla/id/770?&cc=5739
Yep a pretty damn good assessment.
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I agree with the points but would add another - add more depth to the offensive side of the team. For a large part of the season we struggled for goals and had there been any injuries to the front 3 in the run-in we would have been in trouble. More depth is needed to 1) make the squad more competitive, 2) give us an option if we're not so lucky with injuries this time 3) have a contingency plan in case anyone thinks the grass is greener on the other side.
The rest of the team need to contribute more goals too. We were too reliant on the front 3.
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My biggest priority would be to find another central midfielder, preferably a big horrible bully with a good touch.
I still believe that much of our defensive problems have because of the problems in midfield. We spent the first two thirds of the season trying to fill that third spot in midfield, none of El Amadi, Holman, Ireland or Bannan had any consistency. As a result we were repeatedly exposed and put under long spells of pressure.
That changed when Sylla found his feet, and as a result we looked a lot more robust defensively and as a bonus he was also handy at keeping the ball, so we had made more chances. We can't afford to lose anyone of Sylla, Delph and Westwood as it stands as the whole thing falls apart so adding to and more so improving that group would be top of the list, for me.
There's still work to be done with the defenders, but I wouldn't give up on any of them, they'll all be better players for having played together for a season and having gone through the wringer and come out intact. Add to them by all means, but not some experienced lump. Lets just get a couple more hungry, adaptable, talented young players who we can blood into our style over the season.
Keep the three up top together, bring in Benteke's replacement now in readiness for next summer, and with the turmoil that the rest of the division seems to be in, we'll sail into the top six with some cracking football, some new heroes, and the FA Cup in the bag.
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In order we need Central Midfielder - big strong bully who can play and good in both boxes. Central Defender - again more of the thuggish stopper as opposed to footballing - the 3 we have are not strong enough but could be. Left Back as competition for Bennett (he was nailed on due to Warnock' all round shiteness). Then Goalkeeping and Right Back and Forward cover.
That is 6 as a minimum + realistically 2-3 to step up from the yoofs this year. We get rid of the dead wood - can't agrue with any of those who need to be moved on. Maybe give KEA and Holman another 6 months. The rest can go - starting with the useless twunt Ireland.
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My to do list would be very similar to that:-
1. Sign up Weimann and Benteke.
2. If they're costing a lot and not contributing, get rid!
3. Get more goals from midfield.
4. An experienced CB to go straight into the side.
5. Keep up the excellent scouting of young and hungry players.
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The thing I am most comfortable about going into next season is that Lambert now knows the best system for this team. It took him over half a season to figure that out last year. Now, it needs some additional quality in key areas and we should be in much better shape to hit the ground running. There's plenty of uncertainty for other clubs in the division with managerial changes that it's just reassuring that it's not us for once.
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My to do list would be very similar to that:-
1. Sign up Weimann and Benteke.
2. If they're costing a lot and not contributing, get rid!
3. Get more goals from midfield.
4. An experienced CB to go straight into the side.
5. Keep up the excellent scouting of young and hungry players.
6. Look up in the dictionary the word 'caution'. Going gung-ho against beter sides will more often than not see us humiliated. (See goals conceded column).
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We are Aston Villa. There are no 'better sides'.
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We are Aston Villa. There are no 'better sides'.
Quite right.
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Sod caution. I'd rather go down 5-0, or more, trying to win than limp to a 2-0 defeat by playing it safe.
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I would say there is no better club. There are plenty of better sides.
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My to do list would be very similar to that:-
1. Sign up Weimann and Benteke.
2. If they're costing a lot and not contributing, get rid!
3. Get more goals from midfield.
4. An experienced CB to go straight into the side.
5. Keep up the excellent scouting of young and hungry players.
6. Look up in the dictionary the word 'caution'. Going gung-ho against beter sides will more often than not see us humiliated. (See goals conceded column).
Have you seen your sig?
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Sod caution. I'd rather go down 5-0, or more, trying to win than limp to a 2-0 defeat by playing it safe.
But not 8-0 :(
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Sod caution. I'd rather go down 5-0, or more, trying to win than limp to a 2-0 defeat by playing it safe.
But not 8-0 :(
It will not happened again.
But thrashing Sunderland ... :)
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Sod caution. I'd rather go down 5-0, or more, trying to win than limp to a 2-0 defeat by playing it safe.
That lack of caution could have seen us relegated this season due to our shocking goals against column. Being 3-0 down to both Chelsea and the Plastics after 34 minutes is a poor habit to keep. We're a team that will always make chances but unlike you, I'd prefer to do it when there's still something to play for.
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Sod caution. I'd rather go down 5-0, or more, trying to win than limp to a 2-0 defeat by playing it safe.
That lack of caution could have seen us relegated this season due to our shocking goals against column. Being 3-0 down to both Chelsea and the Plastics after 34 minutes is a poor habit to keep. We're a team that will always make chances but unlike you, I'd prefer to do it when there's still something to play for.
But it didn't. And doing it twice in a 38 game season is hardly a habit. And we got more points by going for it this season than we got last season playing it cautious.
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Sod caution. I'd rather go down 5-0, or more, trying to win than limp to a 2-0 defeat by playing it safe.
That lack of caution could have seen us relegated this season due to our shocking goals against column. Being 3-0 down to both Chelsea and the Plastics after 34 minutes is a poor habit to keep. We're a team that will always make chances but unlike you, I'd prefer to do it when there's still something to play for.
Using the 'Plastics' as an example just seems to be skewing the facts to make it fit your argument. The title was there to be won and they way the started the game, they would have blown most sides away. The fact that it didn't get any worse after the third was encouraging.
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Sod caution. I'd rather go down 5-0, or more, trying to win than limp to a 2-0 defeat by playing it safe.
That lack of caution could have seen us relegated this season due to our shocking goals against column. Being 3-0 down to both Chelsea and the Plastics after 34 minutes is a poor habit to keep. We're a team that will always make chances but unlike you, I'd prefer to do it when there's still something to play for.
But it didn't. And doing it twice in a 38 game season is hardly a habit. And we got more points by going for it this season than we got last season playing it cautious.
Amen to that.
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Sod caution. I'd rather go down 5-0, or more, trying to win than limp to a 2-0 defeat by playing it safe.
That lack of caution could have seen us relegated this season due to our shocking goals against column. Being 3-0 down to both Chelsea and the Plastics after 34 minutes is a poor habit to keep. We're a team that will always make chances but unlike you, I'd prefer to do it when there's still something to play for.
Using the 'Plastics' as an example just seems to be skewing the facts to make it fit your argument. The title was there to be won and they way the started the game, they would have blown most sides away. The fact that it didn't get any worse after the third was encouraging.
The point I'm trying to make is Lambert doesn't do caution and we'll suffer for it more often than not. I love the way we play but it's bloody naive to think we can just turn up every game and give it a go. Sorry but football has moved on from an under 7's kick about. His whole philosophy is based on scoring more goals than the opposition. How many clean sheets did we have last season? It was the same at Norwich.
I'd prefer it if we were difficult to score against and still score loads. Yes, I want everything but look at the final league table stats - only two teams conceded more goals than us and both were relegated. Even the shiteness that is QPR conceded less goals than us. Add to that we only managed 1.23 goals a game, we were hardly free scoring.
Hopefully a couple of centre halves brought in over the summer will do the trick but I have a horrible feeling the defence is Paul Lambert's achilles heel. If that turns out to be the case, it will be another great opportunity in the history of Aston Villa - wasted.
Getting beat 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3-0 does nothing for the confidence of the team either.
Apart from that I love him.
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Don't worry, we'll be fine.
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Don't worry, we'll be fine.
And we'll have more fun along the way than we've had for years.
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Don't worry, we'll be fine.
And we'll have more fun along the way than we've had for years.
Absolutely.
We've conditioned for too long too sterile football and thinking. Break off the shackles and enjoy.
As far as I'm concerned, this attitude is the only hope we've got getting ourselves back where we should be.
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I don't see any harm at all in coaching the likes of Bennett and Lowton in the art of defending.
We can concede fewer goals without sacrificing the enterprising side of our play.
A couple of Cosa Nostra class centre halves wouldn't do us any harm at all either.
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"His whole philosophy is based on scoring more goals than the opposition." - Tends to give you a chance of winning that.
"How many clean sheets did we have last season? It was the same at Norwich." - It's not just us that struggled for clean sheets, it's the way the Premier League is now. Stoke were probably one of the main one's for clean sheets and look how awful they were to watch and ultimately weren't much better off. Also you're judging Lambert by his first year with us and his first year with a newly promoted team, where he guided them to mid-table survival by-the-way.
Just as it can be argued that his ballsy tactics cost us points, they also got us points - Stoke away and Norwich away being 2 examples. Certainly Norwich as we had 3-on-3 in the final minutes.
Obviously we can't take such risks against the top sides and as the young players mature and we add more depth to the squad, hopefully we can adjust and learn when to take such risks and when not to.
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If only we could mix that ballsy, go-getting attitude to scoring goals with some proper defending which stopped people scoring goals against us.
I reckon that's the way forward, right there.
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If only we could mix that ballsy, go-getting attitude to scoring goals with some proper defending which stopped people scoring goals against us.
I reckon that's the way forward, right there.
I think that's probably the plan.
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If only we could mix that ballsy, go-getting attitude to scoring goals with some proper defending which stopped people scoring goals against us.
I reckon that's the way forward, right there.
Pffft, that's no fun.
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76/77 season again. That's what I want. Sort it out Lambert!
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If only we could mix that ballsy, go-getting attitude to scoring goals with some proper defending which stopped people scoring goals against us.
I reckon that's the way forward, right there.
Pffft, that's no fun.
Spurs have been fun for as long as I can remember. That's why they're still an "all fart no shit" of a club.
Now the Villa.. that's a different story. It's a long time since I've been so in love with my club but let's not pretend there's no room for improvement.
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I don't think we'll ever be solid at the back with Lambert. But we can improve a lot. The most important think is the personnel. A quality center half would improve us a lot. Vlaar is okay but needs a decent partner to help him.
We can get the defensive coach to work on positioning, particularly the fullbacks.
The biggest thing we need to eradicate, and it's plagued us for 2 seasons now, is giving away stupid free kicks. I think he needs to start fining players for every needless freekick they give away. Never mind a swear box, we need a pillock free kick/pen box. Give the proceeds to charity. Had we done that last season, even at like 100 quid a pop, we'd have set Acorns for life probably.
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We can get the defensive coach to work on positioning, particularly the fullbacks.
The problem there is Lambert like to play very narrow across the back which invites teams to go wide and exploit the space which puts the full back on the back foot to begin with.
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We can get the defensive coach to work on positioning, particularly the fullbacks.
The problem there is Lambert like to play very narrow across the back which invites teams to go wide and exploit the space which puts the full back on the back foot to begin with.
Yes it does. But we seemed to do better in that regard once we started playing Gabby and Weiman wide of Benteke. The midfield with Sylla also helped, as he and Delph played slightly wide of Westwood, which meant there was a bit more protection for the FBs.
As to the whole attack v defence debate, I'd settle for us stopping conceding stupid goals. We were the casue of our own downfall so often last season, that if we make teams have to actually do something to score against us that'll improve our defensive record quite a lot!
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We could have an Own Goal of the Season competition such were the number of errors.
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"How many clean sheets did we have last season? It was the same at Norwich." - It's not just us that struggled for clean sheets, it's the way the Premier League is now.
Hmm, not too sure about that.
How many other teams put together a 24 match run without a single clean sheet?
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Lambert caame to the club promising a brand of football that would get the fans back and us excited again. I think he's certainly done that in how he approaches every game. Under TSM you knew that it would be shit before, during and after. I'm sure it's not lost on him that stage 2 of the project, as well as keeping intact the attacking side of the club is to defend better. We have the best GK in the division and amongst the best right backs. Now, he needs to get the middle and left right and also give them additional protection in the midfield. This project will still encounter several bumps along the way but it is so much more entertaining and promising than at any time in the past number of years.
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It is certainly more fun than the McLeish season.
Mind you, etc etc etc
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"How many clean sheets did we have last season? It was the same at Norwich." - It's not just us that struggled for clean sheets, it's the way the Premier League is now.
Hmm, not too sure about that.
How many other teams put together a 24 match run without a single clean sheet?
Not many but if you can find a stat that shows the collective number of clean sheets in every season since the start of the Premier League, I would put money on there being a general decline. Or another stat would be the total number of goals scored each season, I would imagine there would be a general increase. The game just seems to have been becoming more offensive - look at full backs. In the old days they used to actually be decent defenders. These days they're expected to provide width going forward first and foremost with much less emphasis put on their ability to defend. Glen Johnson's last 2 performances for England have been the antithesis of this - not bad going forward but awful defensively.
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Totally get that, was just trying to say that our defensive record - regardless of how many clean sheets in the PL in general - was pretty abysmal last season.
I am totally behind Lambert, but we can't defend so poorly next season. If we do, we're going to finish roughly where we did this year, and that's not going to go down too well.
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I
Totally get that, was just trying to say that our defensive record - regardless of how many clean sheets in the PL in general - was pretty abysmal last season.
I am totally behind Lambert, but we can't defend so poorly next season. If we do, we're going to finish roughly where we did this year, and that's not going to go down too well.
We conceded a lot of goals that I thought were down to incredibly silly defending. Clark’s mare against Citeh stands out chief amongst them.
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ITotally get that, was just trying to say that our defensive record - regardless of how many clean sheets in the PL in general - was pretty abysmal last season.
I am totally behind Lambert, but we can't defend so poorly next season. If we do, we're going to finish roughly where we did this year, and that's not going to go down too well.
We conceded a lot of goals that I thought were down to incredibly silly defending. Clark’s mare against Citeh stands out chief amongst them.
Pretty much the point I was making previously. We don't have to change our overall approach and set up more defensively, just cut out the daft mistakes.
If the target is 10th next year, then West Ham shipped 53 compared to our 69 - I think we can make a big dent in that deficit if we just stop gifting teams goals.
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Two decent defender buys and we will finish higher than tenth next season.
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Totally get that, was just trying to say that our defensive record - regardless of how many clean sheets in the PL in general - was pretty abysmal last season.
I am totally behind Lambert, but we can't defend so poorly next season. If we do, we're going to finish roughly where we did this year, and that's not going to go down too well.
I don't think you'll get much argument there.
I wonder how much our defensive record was down to Lambert's tactics and how much was down to a combination of 1) Dunne missing the whole season and Vlaar missing a chunk of the season - presumably he planned on that as his first choice pairing with Clark and Baker stepping in when necessary and; 2) The defence/midfield having so many players playing their first full season in the Premier League.
Either way, presumably a more experienced centre back will replace Dunne, the inexperienced players have endured (and survived) a tough season which they should be all the better for having come out the other side and with some new additions and ousting of dead wood the squad as a whole should be stronger next season. With all that it's hard to think that our defensive record will be as bad next season.
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There's no two ways about it, our defence needs improving significantly. We shouldn't forget that none of our back first choice back five this year had any sort of premier league pedigree going into the season. So that experience and some hard work over the summer should help.
Having said that, I still think we just need a better left back and someone to go straight in at centre back. If Bennett and Baker can fight their way past them, then great.
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Regarding the discussion about Collins and Vlaar; Collins was a very bad influence on the dressing room, Vlaar the complete opposite and a good captain.
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Both just average defenders however.
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Both just average defenders however.
even average defenders can be made to look significantly better than they are in the right system or with the right partner. See exhibit A - Curtis Davies. With Martin Laursen, looked every bit the promising CB we paid 10m for. Asked to do it on his own or with a less accomplished partner...well let's be polite and say not so good. Stick Vlaar next to a solid CB and he'll be better and his overall positive outlook and leadership qualities become enhanced.
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Two decent defender buys and we will finish higher than tenth next season.
'Ill go top 8. I love where we're going.
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To be fair, Davies did well alongside Knight for a good while too. And then it all went to pot.
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Both just average defenders however.
That's a little unfair on Vlaar. Ideally in his first full season in a new league he would have had the experience of Dunne alongside him. Rookies like Clark and Baker made his job that more difficult. I think he will shine next season if we have to make do with Baker but will look very good alongside an experienced new player.
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http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/sports-breakfast/130606/lambert-bentekes-future-and-villas-young-stars-199087
From this morning talking To Alan Brazil and Neilwarnock
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"How many clean sheets did we have last season? It was the same at Norwich." - It's not just us that struggled for clean sheets, it's the way the Premier League is now.
Hmm, not too sure about that.
How many other teams put together a 24 match run without a single clean sheet?
Clean sheets are overrated. EPL is about goals goals and oh yes goals. You just have to score one more.....
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Two decent defender buys and we will finish higher than tenth next season.
4th. Oh yes.
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There was an interesting interview with Lambert in one of the Sunday papers up here today. I can't find an online version of it but for me two things shone out for me. First of all, is his work ethic. The article made it clear that this time of year the training ground is pretty much deserted but Lambert is in there dealing with agents, checking up on the new training pitches and so on and he seems very hands on. He says that he doesn't get a proper holiday and that if he gets away he has to keep the phone on all of the time so he can still deal with things. Second, is you can tell how immensely proud he is with what he has at the club. Not just the players but he speaks glowingly of the facilities and stadium. The writer even compares Celtic and Rangers' training grounds unfavourably to Bodymoor Heath (they both could fit together within the complex and leave room for a few more pitches being the comment) and Lambert is effusive about them.
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Based on performance of team since Christmas and signing so far this summer we could be in for something special this coming season
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Do Scottish people understand him?
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Based on performance of team since Christmas and signing so far this summer we could be in for something special this coming season
I agree.
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Based on performance of team since Christmas and signing so far this summer we could be in for something special this coming season
I agree.
Count me in too.
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Two decent defender buys and we will finish higher than tenth next season.
4th. Oh yes.
Nope.
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There was an interesting interview with Lambert in one of the Sunday papers up here today. I can't find an online version of it but for me two things shone out for me. First of all, is his work ethic. The article made it clear that this time of year the training ground is pretty much deserted but Lambert is in there dealing with agents, checking up on the new training pitches and so on and he seems very hands on. He says that he doesn't get a proper holiday and that if he gets away he has to keep the phone on all of the time so he can still deal with things. Second, is you can tell how immensely proud he is with what he has at the club. Not just the players but he speaks glowingly of the facilities and stadium. The writer even compares Celtic and Rangers' training grounds unfavourably to Bodymoor Heath (they both could fit together within the complex and leave room for a few more pitches being the comment) and Lambert is effusive about them.
I read an article on PL when he took over. He is from a village around the Glasgow area. The word village always sounds pleasant, but apparently this is a pretty run down and tough area. The gist of the article was how this upbringing had shaped him and his work ethic and will to win.
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well his work ethic is slipping as he has not signed a player for a few hours, so its a big no from me
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There was an interesting interview with Lambert in one of the Sunday papers up here today. I can't find an online version of it but for me two things shone out for me. First of all, is his work ethic. The article made it clear that this time of year the training ground is pretty much deserted but Lambert is in there dealing with agents, checking up on the new training pitches and so on and he seems very hands on. He says that he doesn't get a proper holiday and that if he gets away he has to keep the phone on all of the time so he can still deal with things. Second, is you can tell how immensely proud he is with what he has at the club. Not just the players but he speaks glowingly of the facilities and stadium. The writer even compares Celtic and Rangers' training grounds unfavourably to Bodymoor Heath (they both could fit together within the complex and leave room for a few more pitches being the comment) and Lambert is effusive about them.
This is all good stuff ... while things are on the up.
His hyper-involvement becomes a potential problem when things are not going well: this is when Faulkener et al earn their dosh - not allowing the good things Lambert does to become problems when things are not working well.
But don't mis-interpret my comments - he's a good man and a force for good at the Villa right now.
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There was an interesting interview with Lambert in one of the Sunday papers up here today. I can't find an online version of it but for me two things shone out for me. First of all, is his work ethic. The article made it clear that this time of year the training ground is pretty much deserted but Lambert is in there dealing with agents, checking up on the new training pitches and so on and he seems very hands on. He says that he doesn't get a proper holiday and that if he gets away he has to keep the phone on all of the time so he can still deal with things. Second, is you can tell how immensely proud he is with what he has at the club. Not just the players but he speaks glowingly of the facilities and stadium. The writer even compares Celtic and Rangers' training grounds unfavourably to Bodymoor Heath (they both could fit together within the complex and leave room for a few more pitches being the comment) and Lambert is effusive about them.
This is all good stuff ... while things are on the up.
His hyper-involvement becomes a potential problem when things are not going well: this is when Faulkener et al earn their dosh - not allowing the good things Lambert does to become problems when things are not working well.
But don't mis-interpret my comments - he's a good man and a force for good at the Villa right now.
I saw the new superman movie yesterday, and after reading that post I can see lambert with a cape on.
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Top 10 will do me next year, I think we'll still be a big "green" for much higher as the defensive set up under Lambert still concerns me.
Above all I just want a progressive season with no relegation battle, some entertaining games and us scoring goals like we were doing post xmas. It doesn't take that much to finish 8th or 9th in the league.
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Lambert is certainly making the summer transfer thread worthwhile. Over the years that thread has become a wish list for many posters. Now we're signing players throughout the window and gives us something to yap about.
I must admit though I have never heard of any of our signings to date under Lambert except Westwood and of course Guzan but it does make it quite interesting.
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The guy played utter blinder this summer , with new signing in June and the good players signed up on extensions well into 2016-17.
If we can now clear out given, Ireland, Hutton , bannan and self and reinvest in another no 10 and right back, we can have a really good season.
I like him to keep bent but hey ho...
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What duration of contract is Paul Lambert on? Perhaps someone should look at him being the next one to sign an improved one.
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What duration of contract is Paul Lambert on? Perhaps someone should look at him being the next one to sign an improved one.
He'd probably make himself train with the bomb squad for daring to ask.
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When there is fan forum with PL. Someone should ask him when he will hire a new coach to help to organise our defensive organisation as we are hopeless at keeping clean sheet.
There must be a good coach who can do that and buy in Lambert's vision.
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What duration of contract is Paul Lambert on? Perhaps someone should look at him being the next one to sign an improved one.
Three years, IIRC. Might be a tad too early to look at that. Benteke clearly exceeded expectations last year, but did Lambert?
Certainly it wasn't all bad, and astute signings like Benteke, Lowton and Westwood were clearly in the plus column. But defensively we were as bad at the end of the season as we were at the start, and that period around Christmas and New Year was as bad as anything in the club's recent history. Some of the results were the worst in the club's history, in fact.
Personally I'd hold fire until Nov/ Dec, see how we're shaping up. If lessons have been heeded from last year and the new signings are blending in nicely, there should be no point in delaying the offer of a new deal. If we act too prematurely though, the risk is that we face another big pay off when the time comes to make a change.
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What duration of contract is Paul Lambert on? Perhaps someone should look at him being the next one to sign an improved one.
Three years, IIRC. Might be a tad too early to look at that. Benteke clearly exceeded expectations last year, but did Lambert?
Certainly it wasn't all bad, and astute signings like Benteke, Lowton and Westwood were clearly in the plus column. But defensively we were as bad at the end of the season as we were at the start, and that period around Christmas and New Year was as bad as anything in the club's recent history. Some of the results were the worst in the club's history, in fact.
Personally I'd hold fire until Nov/ Dec, see how we're shaping up. If lessons have been heeded from last year and the new signings are blending in nicely, there should be no point in delaying the offer of a new deal. If we act too prematurely though, the risk is that we face another big pay off when the time comes to make a change.
Can't disagree with the first paragraph but Dunne was a big (no pun intended) loss and Vlaar a disappointment.Lambert has a clearer idea of the players' abilities and weak links are being discarded,Delfouneso,Holman ,Ireland and Bannan etc.He has made brave decisions in replacing Given and Bent,2 experienced internationals.He is taking the long but viable route of pursuing young players.Spurs did exactly the same and were often criticised for a lack of ambition by their fans .At least our fans have been more understanding.
After the cricket today I watched a short video of Nasser Hussain who explained to a group of Indian businessmen how much 2 lesser lights,Giles and Collingwood,contributed in making a group of players into a team . Hungry if not young.Ability,he said,only took you so far,there was a need to handle pressure .Our youngsters had to withstand a relegation dogfight.
Lambert's previous record bears repeating,taking Colchester to Norwich and winning 7-1 and in the same season getting Norwich promoted ,then another promotion and above Villa the next season. A longer contract please,this guy is no fluke.If Doug had offered SGT a contract before 1990 ?