Lambert in or out? Poll reset with majority 'in', 7th May

[saunders_heroes]

Lambert looks like a broken man. His body language doesn't help at all.

[pauliewalnuts]

Look at the voting in the poll above. Thank fuck there are enough of us who can see the wider picture and aren't just perenially angry and wanting to show it, regardless of the cost.

Then you can enjoy paying your money in the Championship with all the other people clever enough to see the wider picture.  Well done you.  And thank god we didn't get Big Sam eh, phew, bullet dodged there.

You act like those of us who disagree with you either don't think we are at risk of relegation, or actually want to go into the Championship. As if we've not noticed how shit results are.

The fact is, you were shouting for Big Sam, who may or may not have kept us up at that point, without thinking that that would have meant being lumbered with him for the foreseeable future.

You yourself would then have turned out to be the very first person calling for his head when we witnessed his neanderthal brand of "football" the following season.

Actually I like Big Sam, and the game I saw the other day when Cole made his debut was far better footballing wise than anything we've managed this season.

Now I know you've totally lost the plot.

It'd take about five games of his brand of football at Villa Park and you'd be there with the rest of us, razor blades poised on wrist.

[Risso]

I'm not sure that Risso's ability to come up with decent alternatives has any bearing on whether Lambert should stay or go.  I'm sure Lerner and Faulkner could come up with someone they thought was suitable.  "Here he is guys... Sir Clive Woodward.  Er no, sorry.   Sir Clive Sinclair!"

Quite, so we sack Lambert, and who chooses his successor? Randy and his sidekick, the Boy Blunder.

There are two seperate issues here.

1. Does he deserve the sack?
2. Is sacking him the best course of action for us right now?

On 1., yes, if you look at recent results especially, that's a record that gets managers the sack.

On 2, no, I don't think it is. For a start, I don't trust our fuckwit of an owner to not do something totally, totally stupid, on a McLeish stupidity level. I also think that the main constricting factor currently is not the manager, and changing him is far from a guarantee that you will improve things. The chance to add to the squad and improve under Lambert seems, to me, to be the better option than to take our chances under whoever Lerner decides to appoint next.

What fucks me off is this view that if you agree with my point re point 2, you've somehow not noticed the shit results, and all the other badness referred to in the first point.

Of course we fucking have. That's what has wrecked our weekends for months. Years, in fact, by and large. We're not fucking stupid. We (a lot of us) thought McLeish was shit, too, but we're not sufficiently stupid to think "well, at least he's not McLeish" is a good reason to keep him on.

That is what gets on my tits.

So if he deserves the sack, what evidence is there that keeping him is the right thing to do?

Do we look organised under him?  No.
Do the players have any confidence under him?  No.
Having lost at home to our immediate relegation rivals Wigan and Southampton, can we be confident that we'll win any more games this season? No.
Is Lambert likely to sign anybody that will make a difference? No.

So, with that, what's the reason for keeping him, other than saving a couple of million quid?  He might have bought some of the players, but they surely aren't performing for him.  Of the teams who have replaced their managers, Chelsea and QPR, both have improved since changing.  Maybe the same would happen to us.

[hilts_coolerking]

Quite, so we sack Lambert, and who chooses his successor? Randy and his sidekick, the Boy Blunder.

There are two seperate issues here.

1. Does he deserve the sack?
2. Is sacking him the best course of action for us right now?

On 1., yes, if you look at recent results especially, that's a record that gets managers the sack.

On 2, no, I don't think it is. For a start, I don't trust our fuckwit of an owner to not do something totally, totally stupid, on a McLeish stupidity level. I also think that the main constricting factor currently is not the manager, and changing him is far from a guarantee that you will improve things. The chance to add to the squad and improve under Lambert seems, to me, to be the better option than to take our chances under whoever Lerner decides to appoint next.

What fucks me off is this view that if you agree with my point re point 2, you've somehow not noticed the shit results, and all the other badness referred to in the first point.

Of course we fucking have. That's what has wrecked our weekends for months. Years, in fact, by and large. We're not fucking stupid. We (a lot of us) thought McLeish was shit, too, but we're not sufficiently stupid to think "well, at least he's not McLeish" is a good reason to keep him on.

That is what gets on my tits.

I don't disagree with you.  All I'm saying is that if they are going to sack him now would be the best time to do it - as opposed to after the end of the transfer window.

[saunders_heroes]

I started going to the Villa in '77 and I've never seen a Villa team as bad as this. If others on here think that's being OTT so be it, but that's what I honestly think. I had a season ticket last time we went down and we were nowhere near as poor as we are now. We've been humiliated so many times this season I've lost count. Last season was nothing compared to this disaster.

Maybe we should just shout at you and call you deluded, like you do anyone who doesn't follow your line?

Don't be silly.

Why not?

That's what you seem to do all the time recently.

You mentioned the holocaust earlier. That's hardly grown up.

Let's just agree to disagree.

[Greg N'Ash]

I'm not sure that Risso's ability to come up with decent alternatives has any bearing on whether Lambert should stay or go.  I'm sure Lerner and Faulkner could come up with someone they thought was suitable.  "Here he is guys... Sir Clive Woodward.  Er no, sorry.   Sir Clive Sinclair!"

Quite, so we sack Lambert, and who chooses his successor? Randy and his sidekick, the Boy Blunder.

There are two seperate issues here.

1. Does he deserve the sack?
2. Is sacking him the best course of action for us right now?

On 1., yes, if you look at recent results especially, that's a record that gets managers the sack.

On 2, no, I don't think it is. For a start, I don't trust our fuckwit of an owner to not do something totally, totally stupid, on a McLeish stupidity level. I also think that the main constricting factor currently is not the manager, and changing him is far from a guarantee that you will improve things. The chance to add to the squad and improve under Lambert seems, to me, to be the better option than to take our chances under whoever Lerner decides to appoint next.

What fucks me off is this view that if you agree with my point re point 2, you've somehow not noticed the shit results, and all the other badness referred to in the first point.

Of course we fucking have. That's what has wrecked our weekends for months. Years, in fact, by and large. We're not fucking stupid. We (a lot of us) thought McLeish was shit, too, but we're not sufficiently stupid to think "well, at least he's not McLeish" is a good reason to keep him on.

That is what gets on my tits.

So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?

[pauliewalnuts]

I started going to the Villa in '77 and I've never seen a Villa team as bad as this. If others on here think that's being OTT so be it, but that's what I honestly think. I had a season ticket last time we went down and we were nowhere near as poor as we are now. We've been humiliated so many times this season I've lost count. Last season was nothing compared to this disaster.

Maybe we should just shout at you and call you deluded, like you do anyone who doesn't follow your line?

Don't be silly.

Why not?

That's what you seem to do all the time recently.

You mentioned the holocaust earlier. That's hardly grown up.

Let's just agree to disagree.

I mentioned it light heartedly to suggest people put it in perspective.

I disagree with you, yes. What I am not going to do is start screaming "deluded" at you every half an hour.

[pauliewalnuts]

So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?

Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.

If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.

[Risso]

Look at the voting in the poll above. Thank fuck there are enough of us who can see the wider picture and aren't just perenially angry and wanting to show it, regardless of the cost.

Then you can enjoy paying your money in the Championship with all the other people clever enough to see the wider picture.  Well done you.  And thank god we didn't get Big Sam eh, phew, bullet dodged there.

You act like those of us who disagree with you either don't think we are at risk of relegation, or actually want to go into the Championship. As if we've not noticed how shit results are.

The fact is, you were shouting for Big Sam, who may or may not have kept us up at that point, without thinking that that would have meant being lumbered with him for the foreseeable future.

You yourself would then have turned out to be the very first person calling for his head when we witnessed his neanderthal brand of "football" the following season.

Actually I like Big Sam, and the game I saw the other day when Cole made his debut was far better footballing wise than anything we've managed this season.

Now I know you've totally lost the plot.

It'd take about five games of his brand of football at Villa Park and you'd be there with the rest of us, razor blades poised on wrist.

No I wouldn't I'm afraid.  Nothing is worse than losing to the likes of Wigan and Southampton at home.  And did you see our game against Bradford?  It was hoofball that would have made Pulis blush, but he was even bad at that and was out-thought by a 4th division manager, just as he has been by nearly every other Premier League manager this season.  West ham are a set of fans who traditionally like their football played in the right way.  Do you think that they'd swap Allardyce for Lambert, who even when Norwich were doing OK were only really playing a similar brand to us under O'Neill.  It was hardly total football.

[claretandbeer]

Was the general air really better as we finished 15th, 19th, 16th, 16th, 21st (relegated), 16th (old div 2), 18th (old div 2), 21st (relegated to division 3)?

Forgive me, it might be nostalgia. As a young lad in those days, I got goose pimples being anywhere near Villa Park. If you blindfolded me and put me in the ground in the middle of the night, I would know where I was. There was an atmosphere and 'feel' about it that I have never forgotten.

Nostalgia and being a young lad,I'm afraid. Wolves,Albion and eventually Blues were much better than us and no hope nor atmosphere until the false dawn of the 'Doc'.
The book ,'Children of the Revolution', is a wonderful recall of those days and especially the fight back.

[saunders_heroes]

I started going to the Villa in '77 and I've never seen a Villa team as bad as this. If others on here think that's being OTT so be it, but that's what I honestly think. I had a season ticket last time we went down and we were nowhere near as poor as we are now. We've been humiliated so many times this season I've lost count. Last season was nothing compared to this disaster.

Maybe we should just shout at you and call you deluded, like you do anyone who doesn't follow your line?

Don't be silly.

Why not?

That's what you seem to do all the time recently.

You mentioned the holocaust earlier. That's hardly grown up.

Let's just agree to disagree.

I mentioned it light heartedly to suggest people put it in perspective.

I disagree with you, yes. What I am not going to do is start screaming "deluded" at you every half an hour.

I don't scream and I don't shout. You don't think things are quite as bad as I do. As I said earlier, let's leave it at that.

[Greg N'Ash]

So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?

Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.

If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.

There's no money coming. At least not for lambert. An experienced manager could maybe get us out of the shit by organasing us to the extent where a clean sheet wasn't an impossibility. We certainly wouldn't be the worse side thats ever stayed up

[pauliewalnuts]

So, with that, what's the reason for keeping him, other than saving a couple of million quid?  He might have bought some of the players, but they surely aren't performing for him.  Of the teams who have replaced their managers, Chelsea and QPR, both have improved since changing.  Maybe the same would happen to us.

The fact that he's overseen the player scouting we've done until now, and that if we have money for players, he'll be spending it based on that.

The fact that this season we have seen evidence of improvement - I know you think everything is shit, but I disagree entirely, it hasn't all been shit, far from it. Even today and at Bradford, we managed to play some decent stuff.

I can look at that team today and identify three positions we need to strengthen in. We could probably get the right people in for less than 10m combined. I firmly believe that, poor though we are, a small injection of players in the right place would improve us by an order of magnitude.

Also, Chelsea have improved, but are fortunate to have a squad of world class players to start with. QPR have improved, but from a starting point that made us look like Chelsea. I could point out loads of examples where teams have sacked their manager and it has resulted in even worse results. It is far from a guaranteed route to improvement.

Those are my opinions, I know you disagree, it just fucks me off that you think there can possibly be no argument against sacking him.

[pauliewalnuts]

So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?

Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.

If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.

There's no money coming. At least not for lambert. An experienced manager could maybe get us out of the shit by organsing us to the extent where a clean sheet wasn't an impossibility. We certainly wouldn't be the worse side thats ever stayed up

If there's no money, full stop, then we are fucked, end of. It's that simple.

If he's holding back money because he doesn't trust Lambert, yet not sacking him, then he's a fucking moron.

You have got to back him, or you sack him.

[PaulWinch again]

So he deserves the sack but thats not the right course of action? I'm trying to follow you paulie but what is the right course of action? Just roll over and get relegated or do you think with no money he's gonna turn us around? How can someone else do worse than being relegated?

Because I am not convinced he will get us relegated - if he gets the support he needs from the board.

If the financial support isn't there, then we're fucked, it doesn't matter who is in charge. Pep Guardiola couldn't keep this squad up as it stands today.

There's no money coming. At least not for lambert. An experienced manager could maybe get us out of the shit by organsing us to the extent where a clean sheet wasn't an impossibility. We certainly wouldn't be the worse side thats ever stayed up

If there's no money, full stop, then we are fucked, end of. It's that simple.

If he's holding back money because he doesn't trust Lambert, yet not sacking him, then he's a fucking moron.

You have got to back him, or you sack him.

Agree again Paulie. Whatever the scenario is withholding money is absolute madness.