FFP

[DB]

On FFP…..Forrest docked 4 points.

[Gareth]

So 4 points should be the benchmark for ignoring the June date so long as you balance numbers during that transfer window.  When you could be talking 10/15/20m difference in fee for a player fire sold to meet June date or normally within window you’d take that hit?

[Dogtanian]

All that is great, if we just want the club to be some monument to Victorian-era success and long-lost status.

If we want to actually be what we were, we need to have the ground we can make the next load of history in.

I love the Holte End exterior, it's like nothing else I've ever been to and I'm proud walking up those steps. I'd have it over anything anyone has got.

But it's the fibreglass castle at Disneyland. It's a cheap nod to glories over a hundred years in the past. Three out of the four stands have hardly ever seen us be anything other than mediocre.

If we want people to still be looking up at our great club in another hundred years we need to un-shackle ourselves from all this manufactured sentiment and build the foundations we need to be great here and now.

[LeeB]

Forest's case of extracting the best value out of the Johnson deal might have some merit were it not for the fact they've signed 40 odd players over the three transfer windows since they came up.

[Clive W]

All that is great, if we just want the club to be some monument to Victorian-era success and long-lost status.

If we want to actually be what we were, we need to have the ground we can make the next load of history in.

I love the Holte End exterior, it's like nothing else I've ever been to and I'm proud walking up those steps. I'd have it over anything anyone has got.

But it's the fibreglass castle at Disneyland. It's a cheap nod to glories over a hundred years in the past. Three out of the four stands have hardly ever seen us be anything other than mediocre.

If we want people to still be looking up at our great club in another hundred years we need to un-shackle ourselves from all this manufactured sentiment and build the foundations we need to be great here and now.

In my case - “sentiment”?

Yes

“Manufactured”?

Certainly not

[DB]

Stan on TalkSport talking a lot of sense on FFP.

[Drummond]

Forest's case of extracting the best value out of the Johnson deal might have some merit were it not for the fact they've signed 40 odd players over the three transfer windows since they came up.

Absolutley, it's no defence whatsoever with regards to breaking the rules. It works from a financial perspective in trying to get the most money they can, and indeed you could understand why they'd do it.

£15m and a 4 point deduction, got to be worth it.

[aj2k77]

Its not fair play anyway is it. How is it fair that a newly promoted club would have around 10% the spending power of one of the wanker 6 clubs, forever, unless somehow you can gain sponsorship deals worth hundreds of millions of pounds above your market value.

No more Jack Walkers, buying Blackburn the league. No more Leicesters winning the league then sacking their manager ungraciously a few months later.

Basically the league table, in stone, for the forseeable future.

[pauliewalnuts]

I feel exactly the same but I think it’s probably an age thing

My first visit to VP was 27 December 1965 against West Ham - a Christmas present from my parents

We lived in Kent and had a horrendous drive up through the snow and ice (don’t think the M6 existed in those days)

We had a Hillman Minx and even though it was the “de-Lux” version it didn’t have a radio - but it did have a bench front seat and a gear stick on the steering wheel

All the way up I had my ear glued to my transistor radio trying to hear whether the match was still on

It was - but was abandoned after 30 minutes because of the frozen pitch

Memories like that make it very hard for me to imagine watching Villa in some shiny new stadium

But obviously there's a barely a single brick of the ground from that day still in place. Since then there have been four completely new stands, and now two of those desperately need replacing. We've got a 70s concrete eyesore (/ brutalist masterpiece, whatever), a 90s cheap as chips piece of shit that looks like a warehouse, a modern replacement for the Leitch masterpiece, and the Holte End with a modern frontage that everybody seems to think is old, but isn't.

But it's still Villa Park

We've had thousands of different players & managers represent us over the years but it's still Aston Villa FC.
They both go hand in hand you can't have one without the other.

My thoughts too Luke

Perhaps others can phrase it better than me (I think this was Peter Morris)


“The door to the lavishly appointed Guest Room at Villa Park was open and out in the corridor the little boys, dodging the commissionaire, were calling for Brian Little and John Gidman. Quite rightly, they took no notice of myself and the elderly bald-headed man, bespectacled, stooping a little, who was quietly finishing his tea. He looked over at them for a moment, a whimsical look, and moved to the long window overlooking the now deserted playing pitch.

"Every time you come here it must bring back memories Pongo," I said. He stared out for a long while. I thought he'd forgotten I was there. "Aye", he said suddenly "aye, they're a great club...the greatest." I stood and looked with him, this old man whose goals had set the Villa crowds roaring so long ago. It was not quite dusk on that March afternoon and I saw them too...they were out again, the old ghosts...Jack Hughes, scorer just about one hundred years earlier of Aston Villa's first goal (perhaps to the very day)...George Ramsay...the Hunter brothers...Willie McGregor...Denny Hodgetts...legion upon legion of them on parade now, filling the field with claret and blue...the century with pride.”

You’re accidentally making the case for moving there, by quoting someone talking about things which happened long before we moved to Villa Park as being ‘seen’ there on the pitch where they didn’t happen.

[luke95]

All that is great, if we just want the club to be some monument to Victorian-era success and long-lost status.

If we want to actually be what we were, we need to have the ground we can make the next load of history in.

I love the Holte End exterior, it's like nothing else I've ever been to and I'm proud walking up those steps. I'd have it over anything anyone has got.

But it's the fibreglass castle at Disneyland. It's a cheap nod to glories over a hundred years in the past. Three out of the four stands have hardly ever seen us be anything other than mediocre.

If we want people to still be looking up at our great club in another hundred years we need to un-shackle ourselves from all this manufactured sentiment and build the foundations we need to be great here and now.

It's not just about the bricks & mortar, it's deeper than that

[Simon Page]

I'm sure it's been said, but Villa Park is our second permanent home, has changed many times since 1897 and we won about a third of our big honours before we got there. I'd love us to stay, but what I really want is the best looking and most easily recognisable ground, with the best facilities, in pretty much the area Villa comes from.

[chrisw1]

I initially had sympathy for Forest, particularly when you see Man City continue with impunity. But I think they are very, very lucky in this instance when they knew exactly what they were doing and chose to carry on anyway.

[paul_e]

All that is great, if we just want the club to be some monument to Victorian-era success and long-lost status.

If we want to actually be what we were, we need to have the ground we can make the next load of history in.

I love the Holte End exterior, it's like nothing else I've ever been to and I'm proud walking up those steps. I'd have it over anything anyone has got.

But it's the fibreglass castle at Disneyland. It's a cheap nod to glories over a hundred years in the past. Three out of the four stands have hardly ever seen us be anything other than mediocre.

If we want people to still be looking up at our great club in another hundred years we need to un-shackle ourselves from all this manufactured sentiment and build the foundations we need to be great here and now.

This and the post from Risso sum it up for me. We all love Villa park but as it stands it's a shackle to the past that risks damaging our future.

I see 3 options:
Knock down the North and DE, make the best of it and eek our way to 55k-ish stadium which would just about hang onto the coattails of teams around us.
Rebuild on the same site, taking a couple of seasons away from Villa Park and maybe getting a little over 60k but still ahving a lot of the problems we have now.
Build new elsewhere, only move when it's complete and find a site with better opportunities on non-match days, with room for more pre and post match facilities and with better transport links.

[Aldridge Villa]

When do Everton hear their 2nd potential charge ?

[Clark W Griswold]

All that is great, if we just want the club to be some monument to Victorian-era success and long-lost status.

If we want to actually be what we were, we need to have the ground we can make the next load of history in.

I love the Holte End exterior, it's like nothing else I've ever been to and I'm proud walking up those steps. I'd have it over anything anyone has got.

But it's the fibreglass castle at Disneyland. It's a cheap nod to glories over a hundred years in the past. Three out of the four stands have hardly ever seen us be anything other than mediocre.

If we want people to still be looking up at our great club in another hundred years we need to un-shackle ourselves from all this manufactured sentiment and build the foundations we need to be great here and now.

This and the post from Risso sum it up for me. We all love Villa park but as it stands it's a shackle to the past that risks damaging our future.

I see 3 options:
Knock down the North and DE, make the best of it and eek our way to 55k-ish stadium which would just about hang onto the coattails of teams around us.
Rebuild on the same site, taking a couple of seasons away from Villa Park and maybe getting a little over 60k but still ahving a lot of the problems we have now.
Build new elsewhere, only move when it's complete and find a site with better opportunities on non-match days, with room for more pre and post match facilities and with better transport links.

It's definitely more '70s concrete eyesore' than 'brutalist masterpiece', and i don't like sitting in it at all, although i do like sitting in the '90s cheap as chips piece of shit that looks like a warehouse' upper, just don't try to get a drink or go for a piss at half time. On the whole the other parts are ok, but i do get proper fucked off with the performance trying to get to and from the ground.

I'd really like us to stay there and make it 10k or so bigger and improve the transport side of it but if it's not possible then maybe move. I'd like us to build something unique though rather than have the same old shitty soul less bowl that many have these days.