FFP

[Percy McCarthy]

We are considering doing a Chelsea, and selling a stake in the women's team...more relevant for here I guess.

This was in The Times a while ago. Is there a fresh story? (Not having a pop, just keen to read).

Edit: I suppose avoiding relegation yesterday might have given the story new impetus.

[aev]

There is a bit more below...

By David Hellier and Aaron Kirchfeld
(Bloomberg) -- Premier League football club Aston Villa is
considering the sale of a minority stake in its women’s team,
according to people familiar with the situation.
Aston Villa WFC may sell a stake of 10% to 20% and is
attracting interest from several sports business operators and
investors including backers of teams from the US National
Women’s Soccer League, the people said. The owners may seek a
valuation of up to £60 million ($80.1 million), one of them
said, asking not to be named discussing private information.
No terms have been agreed and it is possible that Aston
Villa, owned by Wes Edens and Nassef Sawiris, as well as the
American investment company Atairos, decide not to sell a stake.
Aston Villa WFC currently stands in 10th place in the Women’s
Super League.
A spokesperson from Aston Villa declined to comment.
The valuation of women’s football teams have been
increasing, marked by last year’s $250 million valuation of the
NWSL’s Angel City FC, bought by Willow Bay and husband Bob Iger,
the Disney chief executive officer.
Unlike the US, the majority of women’s teams in the UK are
owned by larger men’s teams. With the growth in popularity in
women’s football, combined with increasing valuations, UK club
owners have been looking at selling stakes to raise cash and
comply with financial regulations.
Chelsea was the first English club to consider selling a
stake in its women’s team, Bloomberg reported last year. After
failing to sell to an external investor, Chelsea decided instead
to sell the team to its own parent company, claiming a £200
million valuation that has enabled the club to stay within
financial fair play rules. The sale has yet to be approved by
the Premier League.
Although interest in women’s football has been growing
significantly in recent years, its revenues are still small.
Aston Villa’s women’s team revenue for 2023/24 is listed as £6.3
million, according to the Deloitte Football Money League.
Aston Villa WFC plays some of its matches at the 41,000
capacity main stadium, Villa Park, including against Manchester
United in March, which was attended by around 5,000 fans.

[Percy McCarthy]

Thanks aev. I suppose selling to outside investors would make it considerably less dodgy than the Chelsea case and help us attain PL approval.

[VILLA MOLE]

what stops any club just buying Assets (  hotels etc) and then just selling them on at inflated prices to a sister company every few months

[Percy McCarthy]

what stops any club just buying Assets (  hotels etc) and then just selling them on at inflated prices to a sister company every few months

Currently, Associated Party Transaction rules (APT). Also, UEFA are a bit stricter on dodgy-looking deals. Apparently they’re not accepting deals like Big Tim & Dobbin/ Maatsen & Kellyman swapping clubs as a boost to our finances.

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

There is a bit more below...

By David Hellier and Aaron Kirchfeld
(Bloomberg) -- Premier League football club Aston Villa is
considering the sale of a minority stake in its women’s team,
according to people familiar with the situation.
Aston Villa WFC may sell a stake of 10% to 20% and is
attracting interest from several sports business operators and
investors including backers of teams from the US National
Women’s Soccer League, the people said. The owners may seek a
valuation of up to £60 million ($80.1 million), one of them
said, asking not to be named discussing private information.
No terms have been agreed and it is possible that Aston
Villa, owned by Wes Edens and Nassef Sawiris, as well as the
American investment company Atairos, decide not to sell a stake.
Aston Villa WFC currently stands in 10th place in the Women’s
Super League.
A spokesperson from Aston Villa declined to comment.
The valuation of women’s football teams have been
increasing, marked by last year’s $250 million valuation of the
NWSL’s Angel City FC, bought by Willow Bay and husband Bob Iger,
the Disney chief executive officer.
Unlike the US, the majority of women’s teams in the UK are
owned by larger men’s teams. With the growth in popularity in
women’s football, combined with increasing valuations, UK club
owners have been looking at selling stakes to raise cash and
comply with financial regulations.
Chelsea was the first English club to consider selling a
stake in its women’s team, Bloomberg reported last year. After
failing to sell to an external investor, Chelsea decided instead
to sell the team to its own parent company, claiming a £200
million valuation that has enabled the club to stay within
financial fair play rules. The sale has yet to be approved by
the Premier League.
Although interest in women’s football has been growing
significantly in recent years, its revenues are still small.
Aston Villa’s women’s team revenue for 2023/24 is listed as £6.3
million, according to the Deloitte Football Money League.
Aston Villa WFC plays some of its matches at the 41,000
capacity main stadium, Villa Park, including against Manchester
United in March, which was attended by around 5,000 fans.

If any club sells their women's team to another company/person; isn't that just a franchise that has use of a name/IP?

What connection would it then have to the men's club?  Why would you support it/give a shit about its results when it has no links other than the name?

[London Villan]

Happens all the time in lots of sectors - food brands for example, are always changing hands - in theory you could have two unconnected teams "branded" as Aston Villa if you take it to its extreme. Stopping it might have some legal implications for free trade blah blah blah..

[Drummond]

Well Chelsea sold all of themselves to themselves and we're talking about a minority share of ourselves to someone else.

[Sexual Ealing]

There is a bit more below...

By David Hellier and Aaron Kirchfeld
(Bloomberg) -- Premier League football club Aston Villa is
considering the sale of a minority stake in its women’s team,
according to people familiar with the situation.
Aston Villa WFC may sell a stake of 10% to 20% and is
attracting interest from several sports business operators and
investors including backers of teams from the US National
Women’s Soccer League, the people said. The owners may seek a
valuation of up to £60 million ($80.1 million), one of them
said, asking not to be named discussing private information.
No terms have been agreed and it is possible that Aston
Villa, owned by Wes Edens and Nassef Sawiris, as well as the
American investment company Atairos, decide not to sell a stake.
Aston Villa WFC currently stands in 10th place in the Women’s
Super League.
A spokesperson from Aston Villa declined to comment.
The valuation of women’s football teams have been
increasing, marked by last year’s $250 million valuation of the
NWSL’s Angel City FC, bought by Willow Bay and husband Bob Iger,
the Disney chief executive officer.
Unlike the US, the majority of women’s teams in the UK are
owned by larger men’s teams. With the growth in popularity in
women’s football, combined with increasing valuations, UK club
owners have been looking at selling stakes to raise cash and
comply with financial regulations.
Chelsea was the first English club to consider selling a
stake in its women’s team, Bloomberg reported last year. After
failing to sell to an external investor, Chelsea decided instead
to sell the team to its own parent company, claiming a £200
million valuation that has enabled the club to stay within
financial fair play rules. The sale has yet to be approved by
the Premier League.
Although interest in women’s football has been growing
significantly in recent years, its revenues are still small.
Aston Villa’s women’s team revenue for 2023/24 is listed as £6.3
million, according to the Deloitte Football Money League.
Aston Villa WFC plays some of its matches at the 41,000
capacity main stadium, Villa Park, including against Manchester
United in March, which was attended by around 5,000 fans.

Doesn't even rhyme etc etc.

[LeeS]

Well Chelsea sold all of themselves to themselves and we're talking about a minority share of ourselves to someone else.

Which is the same as getting any outside investor to join you, like we have done on the club as a whole (eg Atairos).

The Reddit guy buying a share in Chelsea would seem to vindicate the recent valuation of the Chelsea to Chelsea sale.

I like the idea of selling a little bit of our team each year to prop up the FFP. Especially, as the women’s game is growing so the value may just keep increasing.

[Concrete Tom]

Well Chelsea sold all of themselves to themselves and we're talking about a minority share of ourselves to someone else.

Which is the same as getting any outside investor to join you, like we have done on the club as a whole (eg Atairos).

The Reddit guy buying a share in Chelsea would seem to vindicate the recent valuation of the Chelsea to Chelsea sale.

I like the idea of selling a little bit of our team each year to prop up the FFP. Especially, as the women’s game is growing so the value may just keep increasing.

A £20m investment for 10% of Chelsea women conveniently arrives shortly after Chelsea sell Chelsea women to themselves for £200m, thus validating the contentious valuation...

I must be a cynic.

[adrenachrome]

There is a bit more below...

By David Hellier and Aaron Kirchfeld
(Bloomberg) -- Premier League football club Aston Villa is
considering the sale of a minority stake in its women’s team,
according to people familiar with the situation.
Aston Villa WFC may sell a stake of 10% to 20% and is
attracting interest from several sports business operators and
investors including backers of teams from the US National
Women’s Soccer League, the people said. The owners may seek a
valuation of up to £60 million ($80.1 million), one of them
said, asking not to be named discussing private information.
No terms have been agreed and it is possible that Aston
Villa, owned by Wes Edens and Nassef Sawiris, as well as the
American investment company Atairos, decide not to sell a stake.
Aston Villa WFC currently stands in 10th place in the Women’s
Super League.
A spokesperson from Aston Villa declined to comment.
The valuation of women’s football teams have been
increasing, marked by last year’s $250 million valuation of the
NWSL’s Angel City FC, bought by Willow Bay and husband Bob Iger,
the Disney chief executive officer.
Unlike the US, the majority of women’s teams in the UK are
owned by larger men’s teams. With the growth in popularity in
women’s football, combined with increasing valuations, UK club
owners have been looking at selling stakes to raise cash and
comply with financial regulations.
Chelsea was the first English club to consider selling a
stake in its women’s team, Bloomberg reported last year. After
failing to sell to an external investor, Chelsea decided instead
to sell the team to its own parent company, claiming a £200
million valuation that has enabled the club to stay within
financial fair play rules. The sale has yet to be approved by
the Premier League.
Although interest in women’s football has been growing
significantly in recent years, its revenues are still small.
Aston Villa’s women’s team revenue for 2023/24 is listed as £6.3
million, according to the Deloitte Football Money League.
Aston Villa WFC plays some of its matches at the 41,000
capacity main stadium, Villa Park, including against Manchester
United in March, which was attended by around 5,000 fans.

Doesn't even rhyme etc etc.

Gilbert O'Sullivan.

Good song.

[Percy McCarthy]

Dave Powell, IMO the best explainer of PSR/FFP/SCR, has an article about our situation in the Mail. As I suspected, it’s not as bad as many portray. I won’t post the link as I’m still traumatised from trying to read it on their terrible site. Would be great if someone could post just the text.

[Duncan Shaw]

Daily or Birmingham?

[paul_e]

Dave Powell, IMO the best explainer of PSR/FFP/SCR, has an article about our situation in the Mail. As I suspected, it’s not as bad as many portray. I won’t post the link as I’m still traumatised from trying to read it on their terrible site. Would be great if someone could post just the text.

I'll try...

Aston Villa have reportedly been in discussions with UEFA’s club financial control body (CFCB) in relation to their exceptional wage-to-revenue ratio.

In 2023/24, Villa exceeded UEFA’s permitted allowance of 80 per cent, and The Guardian claims they will struggle to comply with the bodies’ squad cost ratio rules this season without raising revenue via player sales before the end of June.

Reports claim the CFCB will advise Villa to cut their wage bill and are also likely to make them submit a spending plan.

After a lucrative Champions League campaign, Villa’s revenue is expected to increase to around £360m this season, according to outgoing president of business operations, Chris Heck.

But Villa will be playing Europa League football in the next campaign after a controversial ending to the season saw the club fail to qualify for UEFA’s elite club competition again.

Last season, Villa’s wage bill was the 10th highest in Europe when they were also paying out more than Bayern Munich.

Football finance expert, Dave Powell, explained how Villa’s fluctuating revenues and wages could impact on their summer plans.

“With Heck having already revealed where the club expects revenues to sit for the 2024/25 financial year, we can make some assumptions as to Villa’s wage to revenue ratio,” Powell said.

“Using the lower estimate of the £360m that Heck had previously stated, Villa’s wages to turnover ratio will be on the decline for the current financial period.

“For 2023/24, Villa’s wage bill increased by £58m, a rise of 30%, from £194m to £252m, meaning that in the last two years alone the wage bill had grown £115m (84%) due to heavy investment into the playing squad. That sum up to the end of the financial year at the end of June 2024 meant that the ratio of wages to turnover had actually increased from 89% to 91%.

“However, the 2023/24 period was one over 13 months instead of 12 as Villa moved the end of their financial year from May to June. The wage bill would have been lower otherwise.

“It’s hard to put an exact figure on where Villa’s wage bill will stand for the current financial year, which has a month left to go, but in taking on wages for the likes of Marcus Rashford and Marco Asensio, as well as the permanent signings of players like Donyell Malen, it is likely that the wage bill will have increased significantly.

“It has previously been reported that Villa were on the hook for at least 75% of Rashford’s £325,000 per week wages (£243,750). Using that figure, and basing it over the last 12 weeks, that is £2.9m in wages. Say that Asensio’s stay has cost £1.5m in wages, and other additions and renewals have also taken place during the financial year, we could assume that Villa’s wages could climb to £270m per year. With some exits, such as Jhon Duran, that may offer some reduction but there is likely to be a net increase year on year, reflective of the investment by NSWE in the on-field product.

“Using that as a rough estimate, against revenues of £360m that would be 75% in terms of wages to revenue ratio. Were wages to remain stagnant, which they almost certainly won’t, it would be around 70%.

“UEFA has a rule in place for its competitions which clubs must abide by, and that is its squad cost ratio rule. That is the cost of wages, amortisation and agents fees against turnover and profit from player sales.

“Clubs have a limit of 70% but there is some flexibility over that at present on a sliding scale, with the first year being 90%, year two 80% and year three from the change in rules at 70%. This year it is 70%, although there will be a light touch taken to clubs that exceed that by a reasonable amount via fines as opposed to competitive sanctions.

“The squad cost ratio for 2023/24 in terms of UEFA’s rules stood at 86% with revenues and profits on player sales being at £346m. With revenues at potentially £360m for 2025, and wages, say £270m, add in amortisation at a rough £105m, and player sale profit, aided by Duran’s exit, and sales of the likes of Cameron Archer and Douglas Luiz (Moussa Diaby was largely cost neutral), then profit of potentially more than £80m could be achieved.

“Using the £80m figure, added to the £360m, then factoring in a wage estimate of £270m, amortisation of £105m and a guesstimate of agents fees of £10m, then that would be 87.5m, a percentage point above their position last season.

“The above figures are estimates and some fluctuations either way are to be expected, but it’s likely that the club remains within the region of that mid to late 80s in terms of a squad cost ratio percentage. That may incur a fine if so, but they wouldn’t be slapped with sanctions given the amount of clubs that will face a similar scenario.”