FFP

[paul_e]

I'm not sure about all this inflation and FFP thing.

The big issue with FFP is buying players and paying them. Yes, stadium costs and paying catering staff and kit washers and retail people and everything goes up with inflation, but nobody is paying players more wages simply because the cost of the weekly shop has gone up £50. And Eric and Tina's wage for slowly selling pies and pints every other week are not tipping clubs into the abyss.

Raising the limit will just mean higher transfer fees and higher wages to soak it all up again and we're back where we started.

Agree 100% with this.

Higher wages and fees has already happened though, they've more than doubled since the numbers were set. Increasing the threshold is obviously just kicking the problem down the road but unless FiFA/UEFA/etc all agree to create an enforce caps there's not much you can do to force wages/fees down. Leaving things as they are just means the gap at the top gets wider and you end up with a super league by default.

[Stu]

Man City's is just such a fucking obvious fiddle.

It's the Trump approach. If you break the rules egregiously enough and lie brazenly enough, it just stuns everyone into submission.

It's basically a superpower.

I think it's more that they don't give a fuck. Didn't one of their board members once say that they'll happily spend £30m to tie up the EPL/UEFA in litigation for as long as it takes to make these charges go away in some sort of brinkmanship battle? Who blinks first etc?

What we, and possibly Newcastle, are experiencing now is the ultimate endgame of FFP: to compete with teams who were able to spend their way to success prior to the FFP rules coming into place and cement their huge incomes through said success, we have to:

- sell the players, likely to those very same successful teams, who made our challenge possible
- sell excellent academy players whom the club have nurtured and trained for years - in some cases to those same successful teams
- try and sustain a challenge to the top four of the league with cheaper, inexperienced players whom the manager has to improve

Given those are the parameters to competitiveness, then the only option is to try and increase income from whatever source: new stadium, higher ticket prices, etc. But those things can only happen when a team is competing.

So essentially FFP has provided only one incentive: not to compete for trophies, just to balance the books. A bean counting exercise with a few mega clubs who do whatever the fuck they want and win everything every year until the end of time.

[astonvilla82]

Would it be possible that in future that clubs like Newcastle and Aston Villa take the premier league to court over restrictions of trade?, because it looks like becoming a close shop, relying on someone who knows about the matter to answer

[Stu]

Would it be possible that in future that clubs like Newcastle and Aston Villa take the premier league to court over restrictions of trade?, because it looks like becoming a close shop, relying on someone who knows about the matter to answer

I get where you're coming from. I suppose the restriction of trade has it's proximate cause in the restriction of competitiveness. Hasn't this argument been subject to a test case in court before though?

[Gareth]

Would it be possible that in future that clubs like Newcastle and Aston Villa take the premier league to court over restrictions of trade?, because it looks like becoming a close shop, relying on someone who knows about the matter to answer

Don’t think so because the members of the league get to vote on issues so that’s the mechanism to change things - the clubs that want change have to bring it to the meetings and get the votes to make it happen…reality is nothing changes until the Man Utd’s / Liverpools who have the clout need things to happen

[lovejoy]

Controversial view but, thank you Jack Grealish for giving us the headroom to reinvest in the squad and not being a dick by acting up for a move or winding down the contract so we reduce the transfer fee.

[lovejoy]

Unless we get a load of income from Europe or they relax the rules we need to cover the Grealish money in 2 years time. Rather than doing this in one go we have been selling academy players to soften the blow. if we are still at the cap for 2024 we'd need another Grealish sale in 2025 to cover it.

[The Edge]

Controversial view but, thank you Jack Grealish for giving us the headroom to reinvest in the squad and not being a dick by acting up for a move or winding down the contract so we reduce the transfer fee.

I couldn't agree more. I'm often perplexed by the vitriol he gets from some sections of our fanbase. Put simply we would not be in the position we are now were it not for the sale of Jack  Grealish for 100m.

[chrisw1]

Controversial view but, thank you Jack Grealish for giving us the headroom to reinvest in the squad and not being a dick by acting up for a move or winding down the contract so we reduce the transfer fee.

I couldn't agree more. I'm often perplexed by the vitriol he gets from some sections of our fanbase. Put simply we would not be in the position we are now were it not for the sale of Jack  Grealish for 100m.

Same.  People moan that he engineered a move by insisting on a buy out clause in the contract, while forgetting that he actually signed that contract, massively increasing his value to us.

[Villan82]

That's one view. Another is that Martinez, Konsa, Luiz, McGinn and Watkins were all here the year before we sold Grealish and they are the spine of the team that is currently top four. He could have grown with them and taken us to the highs we are at now.

We bought in Bailey, Buendia, Ings to replace Grealish in 2021. Bailey came good in the end and Buendia did too well before the injury. Since then with the wriggle room we had further invested in Kamara, Torres, Digne, Moreno, Cash, Diaby.

The summer Grealish went you just felt we were on the cusp of something and he walked out on it.

[lovejoy]

From the Accounts I note:

Whilst turnover is up £39m to £217m, amortisation is up £10m to £92m (and effectively locked in), and wages are up £57m to £194m but not clear how much is underlying vs one offs. We employ 254 player, management and coaching staff.
Our 2023/4 player trading is spend £64m receive £40m so-£28m vs -£64m in the current accounts so £36m better off.
Our cumulative losses are £700m but we have no real external debt (there is a £60m bridging loan from a related company post year end.
The Directors consider 16th a reasonable worse case scenario.
We have a further £61m add ons to pay which may be triggered depending on future events (I guess performances and success). This means if we qualify for CL for example not all the income will be available as "free spend".

In short these results arent as stark as I was fearing (and given they dont calculate the FFP numbers it is difficult to estimate) but I feel we need to do some belt tightening this year and must be braced for the Jack money falling away the year after.

We cant compete at the top table until we have more matchday income.

[Behind Bluenose Lines]

Dread to think how much our season tickets will go up by: more yellow-sticker shopping at the supermarket then!  :'(

[Risso]

It would be good if all FFP figures/adjustments were a matter of public record.

[Mister E]

That's one view. Another is that Martinez, Konsa, Luiz, McGinn and Watkins were all here the year before we sold Grealish and they are the spine of the team that is currently top four. He could have grown with them and taken us to the highs we are at now.
We bought in Bailey, Buendia, Ings to replace Grealish in 2021. Bailey came good in the end and Buendia did too well before the injury. Since then with the wriggle room we had further invested in Kamara, Torres, Digne, Moreno, Cash, Diaby.
The summer Grealish went you just felt we were on the cusp of something and he walked out on it.

Buendia came in before JG was sold; he came in to add further quality to the team not to replace JG.
But I take the point you're making.
I, like others, hold no vitriol towards JG: I think he made a big mistake (because he could have been part of our renaissance), but selling him may have saved us from financial restrictions.

[Gareth]

It would be good if all FFP figures/adjustments were a matter of public record.

Absolutely-at the moment they are an unknown dark art that are just a starting point for negotiation and appeal