FFP

[PeterWithesShin]

I can understand them having to bring in players after promotion because of the loans etc, we were in the same boat when we came up. They didn't have to sign 30 players or however many it was though. And then bring in another dozen this summer. Pretty sure that outside of Johnson in the same period they were bringing in 40 odd players they sold players for about £10m.

They ended up with all their eggs in one Johnson shaped basket, which was in a window more than other clubs were accounting for, and who knows what their plan was if he'd been crocked.

[Somniloquism]

The season they were hit by, 2022-23, they spent 166 mil and sold 3mil. 138mil in the first summer, and another 28 mil in the winter. So the £35 mil first offered for Johnson wouldn't have cleared it anyway. I'm assuming some other money from loan deals etc must have also been used as the 47mil doesn't bring it under 105mil either.

[Dave]

I can understand them having to bring in players after promotion because of the loans etc, we were in the same boat when we came up. They didn't have to sign 30 players or however many it was though. And then bring in another dozen this summer. Pretty sure that outside of Johnson in the same period they were bringing in 40 odd players they sold players for about £10m.

For example, they brought in six goalkeepers in the period summer '22 - summer '23. That seems distinctly unnecessary.

[Smithy]

The season they were hit by, 2022-23, they spent 166 mil and sold 3mil. 138mil in the first summer, and another 28 mil in the winter. So the £35 mil first offered for Johnson wouldn't have cleared it anyway. I'm assuming some other money from loan deals etc must have also been used as the 47mil doesn't bring it under 105mil either.

That's not really how it works, though.  Gibbs-White, for example, cost them £30m, but that isn't "£30m" straight into the FFP calculation for 22/23.   He signed a five-year contract, so it's £30m / 5 years, or £6m per year for the next five years.  For FFP purposes, player transfer fees are spread across the length of the contract they sign. They spent £190m the first year back up, but realistically, only about £50m-£60m at most will have been in the 22/23 FFP calculation.  Obviously their wages went up massively as well. 

But this "spreading out the transfer fee over the length of the contract" is why selling homegrown players is such a positive for FFP, because the fee you receive is 100% profit, and all accounted for immediately in FFP terms.  So of that £50-60m they "spent" in FFP terms in 2022/23, they got almost all of it back immediately from spurs for Brennan Johnson.  But it was after the deadline, so they still had that FFP hole at 30th June.

The other problem they have is that they have another £50-60m on "FFP costs" this year from LAST year's signings, and they don't have another Johnson to sell.  If they needed a £50m homegrown sale last summer to save them from FFP issues, I've no idea what they're going to do this year.

[chrisw1]

Brennan Johnson will be this year's figures and on the rolling 3 year basis will help their numbers for the next two seasons.

[pauliewalnuts]

I can understand them having to bring in players after promotion because of the loans etc, we were in the same boat when we came up. They didn't have to sign 30 players or however many it was though. And then bring in another dozen this summer. Pretty sure that outside of Johnson in the same period they were bringing in 40 odd players they sold players for about £10m.

They ended up with all their eggs in one Johnson shaped basket, which was in a window more than other clubs were accounting for, and who knows what their plan was if he'd been crocked.

This is it, in a nutshell.

Forest went absolutely batshit and spent a fortune on literally tens of players.

How did they think this was going to pan out with FFP?

I don’t like the rules of ffp either but the fact is they are the rules and Forest knew that. I have zero sympathy for them (despite them being a club I’ve always liked).

[LeeB]

I can understand them having to bring in players after promotion because of the loans etc, we were in the same boat when we came up. They didn't have to sign 30 players or however many it was though. And then bring in another dozen this summer. Pretty sure that outside of Johnson in the same period they were bringing in 40 odd players they sold players for about £10m.

They ended up with all their eggs in one Johnson shaped basket, which was in a window more than other clubs were accounting for, and who knows what their plan was if he'd been crocked.

This is it, in a nutshell.

Forest went absolutely batshit and spent a fortune on literally tens of players.

How did they think this was going to pan out with FFP?

More than a whiff of a cleaning process going on.

[VillaTim]

Hopefully they have to sell Gibbs-White and we can swoop

[aev]

Maybe the allowable spending should have some reference to the club's debt?

[Dante Lavelli]

Brennan Johnson will be this year's figures and on the rolling 3 year basis will help their numbers for the next two seasons.

That’s where I see a compromise. Using Forest’s logic the income from the transfer should be moved to a season earlier, therefore it’s on the books for two not three years.

They’re let off with a fine this season but the points punishment is in the post if they have cannot sort it out in two seasons.

[PeterWithesShin]

I don't see any way the Forest excuse stands. They want 7 full transfer windows when everyone else has 6 for FFP. They sold him on the last day of that 7th window. If it was allowed as an excuse then loads of clubs can try and go down that route. And as i've said, if Johnson had gotten himself crocked in the matches he played during window 7, or in training, what was their plan as no one would be spending nearly £50m on him if he'd just done a Mings or Buendia.

[FatSam]

Maybe not word for word but that's the gist of it. Printed in De Bilde (?) a few years back.

Only a Villa fan of a certain vintage could think the German tabloid newspaper Bild is spelt De Bilde. Sounds like your brain works a bit like mine! 

[brontebilly]

I can understand them having to bring in players after promotion because of the loans etc, we were in the same boat when we came up. They didn't have to sign 30 players or however many it was though. And then bring in another dozen this summer. Pretty sure that outside of Johnson in the same period they were bringing in 40 odd players they sold players for about £10m.

They ended up with all their eggs in one Johnson shaped basket, which was in a window more than other clubs were accounting for, and who knows what their plan was if he'd been crocked.

But he didn't get crocked and they got a far bigger price for Johnson a few weeks later.

Some/a lot of their other business was highly questionable. The deals for likes of Lingard, Shelvey and Wood all stunk. Origi...another part time footballer stealing a living.

[PeterWithesShin]

It was 2 months later, a full transfer window. Why should they have 7 windows for sales while everyone else has 6?

[Somniloquism]

Yes they got more money passed the deadline they had signed up to have balanced the books by.

AFAIK, neither Leicester, Leeds or Southampton overspent during the same period and yet Forest did but people are stating they did nothing wrong because they should also be able to sell a player to "make up for it" the next financial period.