FFP

[SoccerHQ]

The precedents for us being able to replace good with better aren't many, but then it all depends on who has the credit card, doesn't it?

We're clearly going for potential now with Monchi's influence. Not sure who Rogers replaces long term but let's hope he can step up. Got a good feeling on the Serb RB so if he can do well in the cups early next season Cash will probably be sold at some point.

We've just got to be careful we don't go full on 2011-13 again when we just flooded the whole team with cheap imports from abroad and the lower leagues. You still need a core of 5-6 top level players to manage the transition if you have to sell a Luiz or Ramsey in the near future.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

They want to sell extras to people they’re attracting in to see a match. But the only way you can make sure you can purchase those extras is to miss a chunk of the match you actually came to see.

It’s not that we won’t spend, they’re just making it as difficult as possible.

I used to buy a coffee/hot chocolate before every game - I'm usually driving at least 3 other people to the game and back - but the queues in the Trinity for the ONE coffee outlet takes at least 40 minutes. So, feck it. I'd rather have a chat with my mates and suck a Murray Mint!

[Somniloquism]

Recent memory at Villa Park would suggest the contrary. We were lost without Grealish until Emery came. Replacing Milner with Stevie Ireland, Downing with Nzogbia, Benteke with Justhead? This isn't like Real Madrid replacing Casemiro with a couple of French hotshots. It would be very difficult to replace Luiz for example as he is critical to how we play. Same for Watkins, Konsa, Ramsey, McGinn. We don't seem to have any/many academy prospects capable of stepping up to that level either.

I'm trying to think of some successful examples where we moved on key players without impacting the team much, MON did a good job replacing Barry with Milner but Milner was already with us so it was more of a positional change. Gregory was it replaced likes of Bosnich, Southgate and Ugo with James, Mellberg and Alpay but the team was starting to decline from memory. Yorke with Dublin another one but again we were further away from competing.

The highlighted bit you seem to gloss over is why I'm less worried about finding someone. We thought we would struggle all season without Mings, Torres has shown we didn't miss him as much and actually added stuff to our game we didn't even realise we were missing. Granted when he is out, we do drop several levels, but that is the current nature of the beast of the squad depth. (Although I think Lenglet is getting better each game).

But people also seem to forger that Luiz , Watkins, Ramsey, Konsa and McGinn were all playing in a side that finished 17th (with a last day point keeping us up), 11th and 14th and were flirting with relegation early last season. All but Ramsey were told "they were not fit to wear the shirt" and "I would sell him now". So why do we think Emery couldn't buy currently "lesser" players and mould them into the world class players we currently have?

[Brazilian Villain]

It might be time to start making our peace with that possibility.

[claret+blue ed]

Just a thought which maybe way off the mark, but if we are saying that not all the £120m loss counts towards FFP, then does the £300k profit we made a couple of years ago, count as even more, once the allowable costs are also taken off, meaning it was even more of a profit for FFP purposes, or have I got this totally wrong??

[Beard82]

This is from The Times and illustrates the challenge trying to compete….

Highest wage bills in the Premier League
2022-23 season. Starred is 21/22 season.
Man City (59% of turnover)
£422.9m
Liverpool (62%)
£373m
Chelsea (71%)*
£340m
Man Utd (51%)
£331.4m
Arsenal (51%)
£234.7m
Tottenham (47%)*
£209m
Aston Villa (89%)
£194.2m
Newcastle (75%)
£186m

It's the absolute pisstake that is Man City that is the root of the issue for everyone.  The sooner they are dealt with the better.

Did Purslow say our way bill was half that of the sky 6?

[rob_bridge]

Pretty certain we sell Jacob Ramsey sooner or later.

He stays fit for a whole season with CL behind him and also probably 5-6 England caps and with his usual prem goals and assists you're talking 60-70m bracket no problem if not more.

Would be disappointing but it's hard to see how we come the other side of these losses as it's a big ask to keep on qualifying for CL.

People ask how Spurs do it but they were in CL every single season from 2016 up to 2020 and now have the Kane money + stadium starting to generate great profit so they're in a very strong position if Levy dosen't make any rash decisions.

Having 10m Korean fans also helos due to Son's success.

[Rory]

It might be time to start making our peace with that possibility.

There's no need for that!

[brontebilly]

Recent memory at Villa Park would suggest the contrary. We were lost without Grealish until Emery came. Replacing Milner with Stevie Ireland, Downing with Nzogbia, Benteke with Justhead? This isn't like Real Madrid replacing Casemiro with a couple of French hotshots. It would be very difficult to replace Luiz for example as he is critical to how we play. Same for Watkins, Konsa, Ramsey, McGinn. We don't seem to have any/many academy prospects capable of stepping up to that level either.

I'm trying to think of some successful examples where we moved on key players without impacting the team much, MON did a good job replacing Barry with Milner but Milner was already with us so it was more of a positional change. Gregory was it replaced likes of Bosnich, Southgate and Ugo with James, Mellberg and Alpay but the team was starting to decline from memory. Yorke with Dublin another one but again we were further away from competing.

But people also seem to forger that Luiz , Watkins, Ramsey, Konsa and McGinn were all playing in a side that finished 17th (with a last day point keeping us up), 11th and 14th and were flirting with relegation early last season. All but Ramsey were told "they were not fit to wear the shirt" and "I would sell him now". So why do we think Emery couldn't buy currently "lesser" players and mould them into the world class players we currently have?

Those five were all capable of far more than they were delivering, Arsenal were keen on Luiz for example. Sure some of them took a lot of criticism, some valid, some definitely not given the clown of a coach they had. I'd lost a bit of faith in Konsa for sure, his lull lasted well into Emery's reign from memory. It's to Emery's great credit he turned around so many careers. Bailey is maybe the biggest turnaround.

But there's only so much Emery can do with far less resources than our competitors, especially if one of our crown jewels gets sold this summer (could that upset the dynamic of the group like what happened when Milner left). There's only so much success you can get from signings from free transfers and loans like Tielemans, Lenglet and Zaniolo, if that's the likely market for us next summer.

[Somniloquism]

I don't think Milner going upset the dynamic of the team that season as much as the (tactically limited) manager walking out just as the season was starting, getting in a totally different style manager who also hadn't managed at all for several years, and the owner getting bored of his plaything so starting to push it under the bed to gather dust.

Lenglet and Zaniolo were rushed in loans to replace two seriously injured players in the squad. As I mentioned, I don't think Lenglet is that bad now he is finding his feet, and Zani didn't work and is being sent back. I would suggest players we do want in would be more investigated for how they will work for us (or at least give us some reasonable squad depth which Lenglet has definitely done). And Tielemans hasn't done too badly for us, but could do better.

[curiousorange]

I dunno, I'd dispute that. Milner's last game, the demolition of West Ham, he absolutely ran the show and went off to a standing ovation. He was a huge loss to replace at that time, and a smallish hill I'll die on is that we didn't adequately replace him until (probably) McGinn came in.

[VillaTim]

Losing Milner was bad enough, having him replaced by Stephen "empty crisp packet" Ireland was a real kick in the knackers.

[brontebilly]

Lenglet and Zaniolo were rushed in loans to replace two seriously injured players in the squad. As I mentioned, I don't think Lenglet is that bad now he is finding his feet, and Zani didn't work and is being sent back. I would suggest players we do want in would be more investigated for how they will work for us (or at least give us some reasonable squad depth which Lenglet has definitely done). And Tielemans hasn't done too badly for us, but could do better.

Agreed on Lenglet, far better than I expected and becoming a better option than Carlos. Jury still out on Tielemans for me. Loads of ability but lack of athleticism a real problem when he plays in our midfield four. Hopefully saving goals and assists for the final stretch of the season, we need him to. Monchi worked with Zaniolo previously but he has been a disaster really.

[Somniloquism]

I dunno, I'd dispute that. Milner's last game, the demolition of West Ham, he absolutely ran the show and went off to a standing ovation. He was a huge loss to replace at that time, and a smallish hill I'll die on is that we didn't adequately replace him until (probably) McGinn came in.

But there was lots of other crapness going on at the time involving managers, owners and the changes in players.

Unless Emery walks if he is being forced to sell someone he doesn't want to, I just don't get the parallels (apart from once we replaced a good player so we can never do it again).

All the times others have quoted as well, we didn't have anyone to choose replacements but limited managers, a head scout, and an owner who penny pinched. We have a lot more people on board nowadays.

[Somniloquism]

Lenglet and Zaniolo were rushed in loans to replace two seriously injured players in the squad. As I mentioned, I don't think Lenglet is that bad now he is finding his feet, and Zani didn't work and is being sent back. I would suggest players we do want in would be more investigated for how they will work for us (or at least give us some reasonable squad depth which Lenglet has definitely done). And Tielemans hasn't done too badly for us, but could do better.

Agreed on Lenglet, far better than I expected and becoming a better option than Carlos. Jury still out on Tielemans for me. Loads of ability but lack of athleticism a real problem when he plays in our midfield four. Hopefully saving goals and assists for the final stretch of the season, we need him to. Monchi worked with Zaniolo previously but he has been a disaster really.

Which is why he probably suggested him but he was still a quickly suggested replacement for Buendia (and Ramsey with the injury) and I don't think was really a serious prospect for long term unless he did come good.