My message to Lerner and his General now are, GET YOURSELVES TO THE UK.
Move over for the next 7 months to the end of the season
Show SUPPORT & LEADERSHIP
You created this world of shit, now confront it daily. Do not HIDE !!
You Dug the hole now roll your sleeves up and HELP dig us out.
Do not be COWARDS . Be LIONS !!
Agreed Paulie. Looks like shit break will get his cards tomorrow.
Agreed Paulie. Looks like shit break will get his cards tomorrow.Any evidence to back this up or are you just raising our hopes?
Lerner is the root of our problems, he hopes to sell the club without the investment needed to make us a an attractive option for a potential buyer.
Poor managerial appointments and after the last five years of selling our best players and not providing the funds to replace those players with players of at least the equivalent standard we have declined so badly that this season will end up with the inevitable relegation. Yes Dim Sherwood is out of his depth but his remit for Randy is to finish 17th.......
My goodwill to Randy ended five years ago and if it was Doug still running the club and we were in this predicament we would be demonstrating outside Villa Park calling for him to go, unfortunately as Randy can't even be arsed to attend a game unless he's sat next to Prince William at Wembley then protests will be probably a waste of time.
Some sensible comments, Paulie.
However, sometimes an organisation has a stench about it that tinkering with the management structure will only go so far towards curing. Sometimes you need to lop the head off and start afresh.
The owner out.
How does that work then unless somebody on here has gazillions of pounds?
My former ITK stuff was impeccable. I got Bent and McLeish early. The current one talks a great game, and is convincing, but too new for me to tell you to lump on at the bookies.
The thing that has kicked it off is Sherwood and his media cronies leaking the "not my signings" bit.
What seems to have been sounded out is not what I want. That said, what is potentially coming in is not what I am really being told. One is foreign and interesting but I take it with a pinch of salt at the minute.Stop talking in riddles and just fill in the blanks R--- ------Z
What seems to have been sounded out is not what I want. That said, what is potentially coming in is not what I am really being told. One is foreign and interesting but I take it with a pinch of salt at the minute.Stop talking in riddles and just fill in the blanks R--- ------Z
What seems to have been sounded out is not what I want. That said, what is potentially coming in is not what I am really being told. One is foreign and interesting but I take it with a pinch of salt at the minute.
What seems to have been sounded out is not what I want.
One is foreign and interesting but I take it with a pinch of salt at the minute.
My first is in I but not canoe!
It would seem they have been in touch with a few people. I havent a clue on your one ending in Z mind. I don't even know who you are driving at.
How can they not be to your liking but you have no names?
Possibly not.What seems to have been sounded out is not what I want. That said, what is potentially coming in is not what I am really being told. One is foreign and interesting but I take it with a pinch of salt at the minute.Stop talking in riddles and just fill in the blanks R--- ------Z
Rafa Benitez? You really think he'd leave Real Madrid for us?
I've come to despise the man. I wish him nothing but ill fate. If we go down, he deserves it.
I've come to despise the man. I wish him nothing but ill fate. If we go down, he deserves it.
Harsh. CheltenhamLion's not that bad.
I've come to despise the man. I wish him nothing but ill fate. If we go down, he deserves it.I can think of several individuals I could wish this upon but the Chairman of a failing premiership football club isn't one of them.
I've come to despise the man. I wish him nothing but ill fate. If we go down, he deserves it.I can think of several individuals I could wish this upon but the Chairman of a failing premiership football club isn't one of them.
I'd have a lot more respect for him if he got himself over here and made his prescense felt daily. Be at games, go to bodymoor , live in the city. Drink with the fans.Attend a few games would be a start.
I'd have a lot more respect for him if he got himself over here and made his prescense felt daily. Be at games, go to bodymoor , live in the city. Drink with the fans.
So he should figuratively live in the city as well?He used to (or just outside) so yes.
Not being funny, but is English your first language (or even second.)So he should figuratively live in the city as well?He used to (or just outside) so yes.
Not being funny, but is English your first language (or even second.)So he should figuratively live in the city as well?He used to (or just outside) so yes.
How the fuck do you figuratively live somewhere?
Don't worry, you're not ;)Not being funnySo he should figuratively live in the city as well?He used to (or just outside) so yes.
I've come to despise the man. I wish him nothing but ill fate. If we go down, he deserves it.
Harsh. CheltenhamLion's not that bad.
I all honesty, I probably do deserve such animosity.
If we were 6th no one would give a fuck if Randy was ever at VP or BH or never turned up. Where Randy physically is isn't the problem.
If we were 6th no one would give a fuck if Randy was ever at VP or BH or never turned up. Where Randy physically is isn't the problem.
I think it is more that people don't think Randy has any idea how bad things are and if he was here he might catch on. All that phone-calls to America 4 times a week/Spirit of lerner haunting the ground bollocks from Lambert made it look as if Randy hasn't a clue.
If we were 6th no one would give a fuck if Randy was ever at VP or BH or never turned up. Where Randy physically is isn't the problem.
I think it is more that people don't think Randy has any idea how bad things are and if he was here he might catch on. All that phone-calls to America 4 times a week/Spirit of lerner haunting the ground bollocks from Lambert made it look as if Randy hasn't a clue.
Remember when Lambert said Randy used to attend games in different disguises? That was bloody hilarious.
If we never saw Lerner at Villa park it would not bother me one jot, all I want to see is a stop put to the corrosion of an institution that should have more ambition than what is being shown now and the last 5 years.
So where he is does not bother me but where his wallet is does and hopefully he has a structure being built that it will not be pissed down the drain ala Pube head
If we were 6th no one would give a fuck if Randy was ever at VP or BH or never turned up. Where Randy physically is isn't the problem.Erm when we were 6th he was there week in week out, home and away, scarf on, kids in tow , scarfed up. It sets the tone .
If we were 6th no one would give a fuck if Randy was ever at VP or BH or never turned up. Where Randy physically is isn't the problem.Erm when we were 6th he was there week in week out, home and away, scarf on, kids in tow , scarfed up. It sets the tone .
Bob Bradley has been making noises about fancying a job in England, shudder the thought!!!
The thing that has always boiled my piss with Lerner was the absence of such a structure when he first took over. It was a golden opportunity to modernise the club from Doug's personal fiefdom to something relevant for the 21st century. Instead we made matters worse by turning it into MON's personal fiefdom instead and have wasted 9 years and the best part of £300M to go backwards, which to be fair to Randy takes a special kind of talent.
If Doug really did appoint MON on Randy's behalf then I'm afraid that's just another reason to dislike him too.He was a typical Doug playing to the galleries type of appointment, with the added benefit that he wouldn't have to foot the bill. Imagine what a proper manager could have achieved with the money he spent.
If we were 6th no one would give a fuck if Randy was ever at VP or BH or never turned up. Where Randy physically is isn't the problem.
Bob Bradley has been making noises about fancying a job in England, shudder the thought!!!
I initially read that as Boo Radley and still momentarily thought he might be an improvement.
And although in hindsight O'Neill was the wrong manager to give a blank chequebook to, at the time he was the massive, overwhelming favourite for the job. Nobody could have inspired such optimism as he did.
The thing that has always boiled my piss with Lerner was the absence of such a structure when he first took over. It was a golden opportunity to modernise the club from Doug's personal fiefdom to something relevant for the 21st century. Instead we made matters worse by turning it into MON's personal fiefdom instead and have wasted 9 years and the best part of £300M to go backwards, which to be fair to Randy takes a special kind of talent.
If Doug really did appoint MON on Randy's behalf then I'm afraid that's just another reason to dislike him too.He was a typical Doug playing to the galleries type of appointment, with the added benefit that he wouldn't have to foot the bill. Imagine what a proper manager could have achieved with the money he spent.
I agree with the first paragraph, although when he first took over he did seem to have, marketing-wise at least, the sort of team we'd dreamt of under Doug. Where they all vanished to is a mystery of Midsomer proportions.
And although in hindsight O'Neill was the wrong manager to give a blank chequebook to, at the time he was the massive, overwhelming favourite for the job. Nobody could have inspired such optimism as he did.
I'd get Calpurnia in - she'd sort Westwood's shite corners out!Bob Bradley has been making noises about fancying a job in England, shudder the thought!!!
I initially read that as Boo Radley and still momentarily thought he might be an improvement.
And although in hindsight O'Neill was the wrong manager to give a blank chequebook to, at the time he was the massive, overwhelming favourite for the job. Nobody could have inspired such optimism as he did.
This. He was a HUGE appointment at the time and lifted the whole club. I'm not sure a Moyes type would be able to have such an effect this time should we try for him
A lift to the fans would anyone we appoint that has had any measure of success as a manager in the game and ultimate comes across as competent and intelligent. A lift to the players would be a manager who knew what he was doing and gives clear well thought through instruction at training and during games. They don't need someone who runs up and down the touch line. They need someone who is honest, and they can trust to make them better.
His prescence is important . Even if he can't make all the games . Equally all football clubs are for sale at any one time , buyers make offers on something they fancy. It isn't like selling a semi in Erdington . Why he needed to announce it was for sale and he'd lost all interest was another rash and ill thought through idea.
iA lift to the fans would anyone we appoint that has had any measure of success as a manager in the game and ultimate comes across as competent and intelligent. A lift to the players would be a manager who knew what he was doing and gives clear well thought through instruction at training and during games. They don't need someone who runs up and down the touch line. They need someone who is honest, and they can trust to make them better.
True, but they are few and far between. Not sure why we don't aim higher and go after someone doing a good job somewhere else the job
iA lift to the fans would anyone we appoint that has had any measure of success as a manager in the game and ultimate comes across as competent and intelligent. A lift to the players would be a manager who knew what he was doing and gives clear well thought through instruction at training and during games. They don't need someone who runs up and down the touch line. They need someone who is honest, and they can trust to make them better.
True, but they are few and far between. Not sure why we don't aim higher and go after someone doing a good job somewhere else the job
Good managers demand decent transfer/wages budget. You really think the chairman's going to provide that?
That's the worry I have if/when we sack Sherwood.
Think possibly the news got out and therefore he had to go public before the papers did .His prescence is important . Even if he can't make all the games . Equally all football clubs are for sale at any one time , buyers make offers on something they fancy. It isn't like selling a semi in Erdington . Why he needed to announce it was for sale and he'd lost all interest was another rash and ill thought through idea.
Because there was a lot of speculation at the time. If he had said nothing, he would have been criticisied for it.
Not being funny, but is English your first language (or even second.)So he should figuratively live in the city as well?He used to (or just outside) so yes.
How the fuck do you figuratively live somewhere?
I literally just died laughing.
Not being funny, but is English your first language (or even second.)So he should figuratively live in the city as well?He used to (or just outside) so yes.
How the fuck do you figuratively live somewhere?
I literally just died laughing.
when's the funeral?
Not being funny, but is English your first language (or even second.)So he should figuratively live in the city as well?He used to (or just outside) so yes.
How the fuck do you figuratively live somewhere?
I literally just died laughing.
Not being funny, but is English your first language (or even second.)So he should figuratively live in the city as well?He used to (or just outside) so yes.
How the fuck do you figuratively live somewhere?
I literally just died laughing.
I've told you a million times, do not exaggerate! /young_ones
Some sensible comments, Paulie.
However, sometimes an organisation has a stench about it that tinkering with the management structure will only go so far towards curing. Sometimes you need to lop the head off and start afresh.
Oh, I agree, but the problem with the Lerner must go thing (which I'd like to see happen) is that it's not some sort of act of wanting to go that will make him go, it's not like he's a politician clinging to office.
He owns the club, he can no more magic up a new owner than we can. Look at the other clubs currently on the market - how long has it been since someone bought a PL club?
I'm sure he wants out as much as we want him out.
Just look at those numbers though. Would you just say fuck it to 50 million quid?
Rearss te Lerner bashing, I agree that Lerner means well, I'm sure he wants success as much as anybody and there's no doubt owning the Villa has severely dented his fortune. He's also done some really great initiatives off the pitch that made me proud to support this great club.
Trouble is though that judgement is ultimately reserved for performance on the pitch and quite frankly that side, which is the whole point of the club, has been dreadful, potentially calamitous if we do end up relegated. And he's had form, look at the Browns.
I wish he'd never bought us and to be fair he probably feels the same way.
Must admit I am getting fed up with the Lerner bashing
He has us up for sale - no one wants us
He has spent god knows how many millions, specially in the early years, to improve us on and off the pitch until it started to go west
Calls to get over here to sort it out - would be followed by "Fuck off Lerner"
What is he meant to do? Give us away just to pacify the fans baying for blood
The one big thing I blame him for was trusting a snake like MON with all the investment money
Of course he is naïve and inexperienced and he has painfully learned a great deal during his reign but some of the abuse he is a getting is way over the top
Imagine if it was your £250 million investment up for sale - would you drop 50- 100 million off the price to pacify supporters thirst for change
There has to be a buyer
We need to be careful what we wish for sometimes
Must admit I am getting fed up with the Lerner bashing
He has us up for sale - no one wants us
He has spent god knows how many millions, specially in the early years, to improve us on and off the pitch until it started to go west
Calls to get over here to sort it out - would be followed by "Fuck off Lerner"
What is he meant to do? Give us away just to pacify the fans baying for blood
The one big thing I blame him for was trusting a snake like MON with all the investment money
Of course he is naïve and inexperienced and he has painfully learned a great deal during his reign but some of the abuse he is a getting is way over the top
Imagine if it was your £250 million investment up for sale - would you drop 50- 100 million off the price to pacify supporters thirst for change
There has to be a buyer
We need to be careful what we wish for sometimes
What about his lack of communication? he comes across as someone who really doesn't give a shit anymore ( which is just about the worst crime any owner could commit in football). I don't expect him to be hawking himself to the press every day like Sullivan and Gold and I don't mean Krulak piping up with his bullshit. We must be the only organisation I can think of that has absolutely no comms strategy. Is it any wonder that we don't trust a bloke who we haven't heard from for a couple of years now? He makes the "elusive" Bhati brothers look like media whores. Brought it all on himself, I'm afraid
Rearss te Lerner bashing, I agree that Lerner means well, I'm sure he wants success as much as anybody and there's no doubt owning the Villa has severely dented his fortune. He's also done some really great initiatives off the pitch that made me proud to support this great club.
Trouble is though that judgement is ultimately reserved for performance on the pitch and quite frankly that side, which is the whole point of the club, has been dreadful, potentially calamitous if we do end up relegated. And he's had form, look at the Browns.
I wish he'd never bought us and to be fair he probably feels the same way.
Which begs the question - if you, or anyone else, wished he hadn't bought us, then who of all the potential buyers at the time would you have preferred? LLVF Mike Neville? The Comers? Ray Ranson? Nicholas Padfield? The fact is that even then, pre-Manchester City, pre-crash, pre-Chinese stock market collapse, there was still a limited field of potential owners and Randy was the best of a bad bunch.
If we were 6th no one would give a fuck if Randy was ever at VP or BH or never turned up. Where Randy physically is isn't the problem.
I think Lerner is an American Cult leader who is trying to create a mass suicide pact with us as his victims.
Rearss te Lerner bashing, I agree that Lerner means well, I'm sure he wants success as much as anybody and there's no doubt owning the Villa has severely dented his fortune. He's also done some really great initiatives off the pitch that made me proud to support this great club.
Trouble is though that judgement is ultimately reserved for performance on the pitch and quite frankly that side, which is the whole point of the club, has been dreadful, potentially calamitous if we do end up relegated. And he's had form, look at the Browns.
I wish he'd never bought us and to be fair he probably feels the same way.
Which begs the question - if you, or anyone else, wished he hadn't bought us, then who of all the potential buyers at the time would you have preferred? LLVF Mike Neville? The Comers? Ray Ranson? Nicholas Padfield? The fact is that even then, pre-Manchester City, pre-crash, pre-Chinese stock market collapse, there was still a limited field of potential owners and Randy was the best of a bad bunch.
Yes it's a good question becuase it's none of those you listed. And hindsight is a wonderful thing.
But the people were out there, Fenway Sports, the Mansoors, the Chinesse chap whse name escapes me at Athletico, they were there. None of us can say if any contact was attempted or not but they were there. We know this because they bought in to other clubs of a similar or lesser stature.
Must admit I am getting fed up with the Lerner bashing
He has us up for sale - no one wants us
He has spent god knows how many millions, specially in the early years, to improve us on and off the pitch until it started to go west
Calls to get over here to sort it out - would be followed by "Fuck off Lerner"
What is he meant to do? Give us away just to pacify the fans baying for blood
The one big thing I blame him for was trusting a snake like MON with all the investment money
Of course he is naïve and inexperienced and he has painfully learned a great deal during his reign but some of the abuse he is a getting is way over the top
Imagine if it was your £250 million investment up for sale - would you drop 50- 100 million off the price to pacify supporters thirst for change
There has to be a buyer
We need to be careful what we wish for sometimes
I think Lerner is an American Cult leader who is trying to create a mass suicide pact with us as his victims.
That's probably as close to reality as any other theory.
On a personal level it is time for me, like the Shunammite, to dwell among my own
Yep, I would also concur with all of that. Randy’s biggest failing was to give MoN the keys to the safe and let him loose on the transfer budget, I believe that this coupled with his changing personal circumstances have left him burnt and looking for a way out. He’s made it perfectly clear he wants to sell, but we are simply not a viable investment due to the change in the global market and the unattractive nature of a Birmingham club to gazillionaires.
Every time I read the vitriol written about him I think to myself, if I were Randy I’d sell to the first charlatan with a suitcase of money – As supporters of a Midlands club, we ought to be very careful what we wish for given the experiences of a number of our neighbours.
If we were 6th no one would give a fuck if Randy was ever at VP or BH or never turned up. Where Randy physically is isn't the problem.
Quite - do Spurs fans give a toss that Joe Lewis has hardly ever seen them play since he bought them? No, because he's employed the right people to make sure things run themselves.
As long as we're paying the right people to make good decisions, then Randy can turn up as little or as often as he'd like.
In fact, based on how things have gone when he was the one making the day-to-day decisions, the fewer that he is making himself the better as far as I'm concerned.
Must admit I am getting fed up with the Lerner bashing
He has us up for sale - no one wants us
He has spent god knows how many millions, specially in the early years, to improve us on and off the pitch until it started to go west
Calls to get over here to sort it out - would be followed by "Fuck off Lerner"
What is he meant to do? Give us away just to pacify the fans baying for blood
The one big thing I blame him for was trusting a snake like MON with all the investment money
Of course he is naïve and inexperienced and he has painfully learned a great deal during his reign but some of the abuse he is a getting is way over the top
Imagine if it was your £250 million investment up for sale - would you drop 50- 100 million off the price to pacify supporters thirst for change
There has to be a buyer
We need to be careful what we wish for sometimes
I think Randy, the sensitive soul should apply for a job with BCC, he'll have all the pc gang there to comfort him, from the horrors who support the club.
Randy grow a pair. put up or sell up!
I think Randy, the sensitive soul should apply for a job with BCC, he'll have all the pc gang there to comfort him, from the horrors who support the club.
Randy grow a pair. put up or sell up!
And who of the people queueing up to buy the club should he be selling to?
If you can't sell your house you either do it up and put it back on the market or you lower the price.
2 posts above this (from villadelph and Salsa Party Animal) highlight my ongoing concern with how people view both football and specifically Villa in this country:He had no concept of the annual investment it would take to improve and stabilize the club. He had no idea which combination of directors and managers would create a good on-field product.
He's done nothing but conduct underfunded, unsupervised failures in his tenure as a sports franchise owner.
This is nonsense, there is no annual investment required to improve and stabilise the club, at least not until you're challenging for the title. You then follow it up with a correct assertion that he couldn't put together a proper management structure before once again going back to moaning at the lack of investment. As fans we all want to be competing to buy the very best players in the world but we don't have the right to demand that an owner either spend a fortune of his own money or fuck off and we shouldn't need that anyway. If a business needs constant outside investment to stay valid then it's a failure, for a sports club success is in the results not in the profits but even still losing money every year can in no way be considered desirable.
2 posts above this (from villadelph and Salsa Party Animal) highlight my ongoing concern with how people view both football and specifically Villa in this country:He had no concept of the annual investment it would take to improve and stabilize the club. He had no idea which combination of directors and managers would create a good on-field product.
He's done nothing but conduct underfunded, unsupervised failures in his tenure as a sports franchise owner.
This is nonsense, there is no annual investment required to improve and stabilise the club, at least not until you're challenging for the title. You then follow it up with a correct assertion that he couldn't put together a proper management structure before once again going back to moaning at the lack of investment. As fans we all want to be competing to buy the very best players in the world but we don't have the right to demand that an owner either spend a fortune of his own money or fuck off and we shouldn't need that anyway. If a business needs constant outside investment to stay valid then it's a failure, for a sports club success is in the results not in the profits but even still losing money every year can in no way be considered desirable.
What?!
When your best player(s) hands in a transfer request EVERY year, reinvestment is necessary. It's football, constant investment is necessary. With the turnover we have and the instability that has strangled us for the last 5 years we are stuck in a revolving door. If you re-read what you wrote, by your definition we are a failure.
Wow, like buses you come in threes, well if your that desperate to sell you put it in the shop window at a marketable price. if your that desperate.
but maybe its smoke and mirrors, and Aston Villa is actually an asset to him.
Wow, like buses you come in threes, well if your that desperate to sell you put it in the shop window at a marketable price. if your that desperate.
but maybe its smoke and mirrors, and Aston Villa is actually an asset to him.
Sorry, we'll try and make sure only one person points out the massive hole in your post next time.
And it is an asset to him, same as if you are selling your house it's still an asset. There's also a difference between looking to sell,and being desperate to sell.
And it's really easy for us when it's not our money to suggest he just writes off tens of millions.
If you can't sell your house you either do it up and put it back on the market or you lower the price.
He's clearly investing enough to keep us ticking over and nothing more and given that he wants to sell, who can blame him.
Just don't think the house analogy works in this case, especially when you consider how much of his fortune he has wasted (foolishly I agree in many cases) on us.
If you're spending megamoney on a football club you don't really care about the manager or his style of play.
2 posts above this (from villadelph and Salsa Party Animal) highlight my ongoing concern with how people view both football and specifically Villa in this country:He had no concept of the annual investment it would take to improve and stabilize the club. He had no idea which combination of directors and managers would create a good on-field product.
He's done nothing but conduct underfunded, unsupervised failures in his tenure as a sports franchise owner.
This is nonsense, there is no annual investment required to improve and stabilise the club, at least not until you're challenging for the title. You then follow it up with a correct assertion that he couldn't put together a proper management structure before once again going back to moaning at the lack of investment. As fans we all want to be competing to buy the very best players in the world but we don't have the right to demand that an owner either spend a fortune of his own money or fuck off and we shouldn't need that anyway. If a business needs constant outside investment to stay valid then it's a failure, for a sports club success is in the results not in the profits but even still losing money every year can in no way be considered desirable.
What?!
When your best player(s) hands in a transfer request EVERY year, reinvestment is necessary. It's football, constant investment is necessary. With the turnover we have and the instability that has strangled us for the last 5 years we are stuck in a revolving door. If you re-read what you wrote, by your definition we are a failure.
Without wanting to speak for Paul, this does nothing to refute his point.
When Bony left for Man City, Swansea didn't go out and spend £28m on a new striker. They had the processes in place to deal with the situation.
When Joe Allen left the board didn't have to fund an expensive replacement. When Ben Davies left they didn't need a new £10m left-back.
They've reinvested, but the money comes from sensible management of the club, not crying that the chairman isn't spending loads of his own money.
And I'm pretty certain that he's in no way claiming that we're NOT a failure.
If you're spending megamoney on a football club you don't really care about the manager or his style of play.
You could argue that the damage was done when Lerner was more hands on, who along with his other cronies had no idea of how to invest wisely in the club.
Paradoxically since he got bored/found it difficult to sell up, putting aside debates about the individuals involved, he's put a good structure in place.
You could argue that the damage was done when Lerner was more hands on, who along with his other cronies had no idea of how to invest wisely in the club.
Paradoxically since he got bored/found it difficult to sell up, putting aside debates about the individuals involved, he's put a good structure in place.
I agree. I see no structure anywhere. Even hearing things about the academy going down hill recently. What a fucking shambles.You could argue that the damage was done when Lerner was more hands on, who along with his other cronies had no idea of how to invest wisely in the club.
Paradoxically since he got bored/found it difficult to sell up, putting aside debates about the individuals involved, he's put a good structure in place.
Has he? Where?
You could argue that the damage was done when Lerner was more hands on, who along with his other cronies had no idea of how to invest wisely in the club.
Paradoxically since he got bored/found it difficult to sell up, putting aside debates about the individuals involved, he's put a good structure in place.
You could argue that the damage was done when Lerner was more hands on, who along with his other cronies had no idea of how to invest wisely in the club.
Paradoxically since he got bored/found it difficult to sell up, putting aside debates about the individuals involved, he's put a good structure in place.
Where is this good structure and how do you define a good structure? As far as I can see the team on the pitch has been a shambles for over 5 years now, but you claim that in fact we have a good structure in place. I'm staggered to know how you came to this conclusion.
It's only a good structure if it works. If it doesn't work it isn't. Nothing Lerner has come up with over the last 5 years has worked therefore it is not a good structure.
Exactly, it's ok saying Oh so and so is the new Director of this and that but if he isn't any good at what he's doing then it's built on nothing.
You could argue that the damage was done when Lerner was more hands on, who along with his other cronies had no idea of how to invest wisely in the club.
Paradoxically since he got bored/found it difficult to sell up, putting aside debates about the individuals involved, he's put a good structure in place.
Has he? Where?
It's only a good structure if it works. If it doesn't work it isn't. Nothing Lerner has come up with over the last 5 years has worked therefore it is not a good structure.
That's twisted logic.
How do you know it doesn't work?
Not that long ago, we were enthusing about the signings. They've got a manager who isn't performing. Why not wait and see what they do to rectify that situation before deciding they're just as bad as everything prior to their arrival.
By that logic we could appoint Man City's structure tomorrow and it'd be shit, because everything else Lerner had done had been.
We wanted him to appoint a grown-up structure for absolutely ages. Now he has, but that's shit too because they've appointed a shit manager?
Where is the new chairman Pelty?
It's only a good structure if it works. If it doesn't work it isn't. Nothing Lerner has come up with over the last 5 years has worked therefore it is not a good structure.
That's twisted logic.
How do you know it doesn't work?
Not that long ago, we were enthusing about the signings. They've got a manager who isn't performing. Why not wait and see what they do to rectify that situation before deciding they're just as bad as everything prior to their arrival.
By that logic we could appoint Man City's structure tomorrow and it'd be shit, because everything else Lerner had done had been.
We wanted him to appoint a grown-up structure for absolutely ages. Now he has, but that's shit too because they've appointed a shit manager?
It's only a good structure if it works. If it doesn't work it isn't. Nothing Lerner has come up with over the last 5 years has worked therefore it is not a good structure.
That's twisted logic.
How do you know it doesn't work?
Not that long ago, we were enthusing about the signings. They've got a manager who isn't performing. Why not wait and see what they do to rectify that situation before deciding they're just as bad as everything prior to their arrival.
By that logic we could appoint Man City's structure tomorrow and it'd be shit, because everything else Lerner had done had been.
We wanted him to appoint a grown-up structure for absolutely ages. Now he has, but that's shit too because they've appointed a shit manager?
Talk about taking the heat off the chairman!
There's something rotten at the Villa and it's the structure at the very top that's the problem. Do you really trust Lerner to finally get it right next time around, and do we honestly think we can attract a top manager with the pitiful wages/transfer budget he provides?
We should have seen the moneyball thing coming, Fox said last December “Paddy Reilly is our director of recruiting overall at Bodymoor Heath and Paddy has hired a whole new scouting network on a full-time basis to cover the whole world"
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tom-fox-feature-aston-villa-8279153
It's only a good structure if it works. If it doesn't work it isn't. Nothing Lerner has come up with over the last 5 years has worked therefore it is not a good structure.
That's twisted logic.
How do you know it doesn't work?
Not that long ago, we were enthusing about the signings. They've got a manager who isn't performing. Why not wait and see what they do to rectify that situation before deciding they're just as bad as everything prior to their arrival.
By that logic we could appoint Man City's structure tomorrow and it'd be shit, because everything else Lerner had done had been.
We wanted him to appoint a grown-up structure for absolutely ages. Now he has, but that's shit too because they've appointed a shit manager?
Talk about taking the heat off the chairman!
There's something rotten at the Villa and it's the structure at the very top that's the problem. Do you really trust Lerner to finally get it right next time around, and do we honestly think we can attract a top manager with the pitiful wages/transfer budget he provides?
I don't trust Lerner to manage to cross a road without walking in front of a truck, I am under no illusions about him. In fact, you surely know my opinion of Lerner from a thousand threads about him on here. It is largely in tune with yours.
The fact is, though, because he still owns the club, it doesn't mean that everything we now do is doomed to fail.
If that were the case, you'd surely be more forgiving of Sherwood's weaknesses? If, after all, it is all about the chairman?
My point was that, currently, the chairman is further away from the day to day decision making than he has been in most of the last nine years. I like it much better that way, and the true test of how the new structure handles things will be when we bin this manager (who they appointed, so they're going to have to be ruthless) and appoint a new one.
Just lashing out at everything at the club doesn't strike me as much of a way at looking at it.
How many decent managers will accept that way of purchasing players?
What moneyball are we doing? The same as we and most clubs have always done, try and find value for money and players that will approve over time? Why wasn't it moneyball when Lambert was doing the first couple otf years? Why are Amavi, Ghana etc moneyball signings but Westwood, Helenius etc weren't? Was Benteke a moneyball signing?
I'm lashing out at the chairman because he is the sole reason we find ourselves a laughing stock. The whole sorry mess is down to him running the club on a relative shoestring, and if you pay peanuts you attract monkeys. I for one don't like the structure. I'd prefer a strong manager who signs the players he wants not ones chosen by others.
Until Lerner opens his wallet and spends big money or sells up this is going to continue. Obviously you know this anyway.
How many decent managers will accept that way of purchasing players?Most of them, because unless there is an endless money-pit everyone has to extract value from their players (from a combination of their onfield contribution and selling them for a profit).
What moneyball are we doing? The same as we and most clubs have always done, try and find value for money and players that will approve over time? Why wasn't it moneyball when Lambert was doing the first couple otf years? Why are Amavi, Ghana etc moneyball signings but Westwood, Helenius etc weren't? Was Benteke a moneyball signing?
I suppose it boils down to who is choosing the signings. The manager has to agree to the incoming players, surely? I'm not defending Sherwood here, but there has to be some synergy between the system of recruitment and the man who has to make it gel and work.
I'm lashing out at the chairman because he is the sole reason we find ourselves a laughing stock. The whole sorry mess is down to him running the club on a relative shoestring, and if you pay peanuts you attract monkeys. I for one don't like the structure. I'd prefer a strong manager who signs the players he wants not ones chosen by others.
Until Lerner opens his wallet and spends big money or sells up this is going to continue. Obviously you know this anyway.
If Lerner is the sole reason we're a laughing stock, are you absolving Sherwood of blame?
As for wages, you reckon Sherwood is on peanuts? How much more do you reckon some of the managers doing much better than him are on by comparison? Do you reckon Koeman, Monk, Bilic et al, all managers doing way better, are on double his wages?
This entire "manager who chooses the players himself" thing is based on something Sherwood has leaked to his mates in the media. This time two weeks ago there wasn't a whisper about it on here.
Lerner does not have to spend huge amounts to do significantly better than we are. I don't know about you, but I'd take anyone's arm off for a nice mid table finish right about now. That's not going to cost an arm and a leg.
This is not a squad to challenge for the top six, but then again, it isn't a bottom six squad either. The fact we are is down to the manager.
What moneyball are we doing? The same as we and most clubs have always done, try and find value for money and players that will approve over time? Why wasn't it moneyball when Lambert was doing the first couple otf years? Why are Amavi, Ghana etc moneyball signings but Westwood, Helenius etc weren't? Was Benteke a moneyball signing?
I suppose it boils down to who is choosing the signings. The manager has to agree to the incoming players, surely? I'm not defending Sherwood here, but there has to be some synergy between the system of recruitment and the man who has to make it gel and work.
Sherwood said originally he had the final word on all the signings.
Rudy Can't Fail posted this earlier:
Vertout?
'I'm really pleased Jordan decided to choose Aston Villa over the other options he had and opt to continue his development with us,'
'He is only 22 years old but he is vastly experienced for someone that age'
'He has played over 140 games in Ligue 1 and is a really exciting young player.
'I know he is very highly rated over in France so we are delighted to get this deal over the line.'
Amavi?
Sherwood told the Birmingham Mail: "It’s someone we’ve been tracking for a long time."
“He was voted the best U21 player in Europe (by whoscored.com).
“He’s dynamic, gets forward, has a good delivery, and is a decent size for a left-back.
'He’s quick and aggressive and will be suited to the Premier League. He plays at a high tempo and French football is quite close to the English league so that will help.
“It will give us competition and will be a decent addition"
Gueye?
"What Idrissa gives you is 100% every time he plays," Sherwood said.
"He is wholehearted, he suits the Premier League and he loves the pace of the game.
"He is very aggressive, he gets at people, wants to tackle and wants to get on the football.
"He is brave in and out of possession - and that's something you want to see.
"We are really pleased with him. He has been outstanding."
Ayew?
“I’m really pleased to bring Jordan to the football club. He is a fantastic young player who is perfectly suited to the Premier League.”
Adama?
“I went to Barcelona and spoke to the representatives,”
“We made a huge effort to bring him to the club because I’ve known him for a couple of years."
“He is someone I have been tracking for a long time."
Lescott?
"Joleon is a player who has great Premier League experience and he'll be a huge help to the younger members of our squad,"
"I said before I didn't think someone of that experience would become available [for Villa], someone who ticks that 'experienced' box that would help out the group. If he became available then we would jump on him."
Rudy?
“I’ve known about Rudy since he was at Cardiff City and he is a player I’ve always admired."
“His goalscoring ratio last season was fantastic and he is someone who certainly knows how to find the back of the net."
“He’s a big, physical striker but he can play and I’m pleased to welcome him to the football club.”
How many more managers are we going to blame for this sorry mess?
Analysing data is sabermetrics, not moneyball.
How many more managers are we going to blame for this sorry mess?
I don't remember you being so supportive of Lambert if you think it is wrong to be blaming the managers. Or McLeish, for that matter.
Once again, I don't disagree with your view on Lerner's incompetence. He hasn't got the first clue.
My only point was that given a choice of manager sacked and the structure we have in place now here versus the manager getting sacked and Paul Faulkner on the phone to Lerner every other day desperately trying to sort it out.
The fact is, he's not going to start to spend huge money again, is he? So we are going to have to do as well as we can within those parameters.
Currently and for the last few years we have failed to even do as well as you might expect within those limits. Nowhere near, in fact.
If you've just decided we're going to float around the relegation places regardless, then there's not even any point in taking an interest in who the manager is, is there?
No decent manager will come to the club while we run the club on a shoestring, and that is our problem in a nutshell which is 100% down to Randy Lerner in my humble opinion.
How many more managers are we going to blame for this sorry mess?
I don't remember you being so supportive of Lambert if you think it is wrong to be blaming the managers. Or McLeish, for that matter.
Once again, I don't disagree with your view on Lerner's incompetence. He hasn't got the first clue.
My only point was that given a choice of manager sacked and the structure we have in place now here versus the manager getting sacked and Paul Faulkner on the phone to Lerner every other day desperately trying to sort it out.
The fact is, he's not going to start to spend huge money again, is he? So we are going to have to do as well as we can within those parameters.
Currently and for the last few years we have failed to even do as well as you might expect within those limits. Nowhere near, in fact.
If you've just decided we're going to float around the relegation places regardless, then there's not even any point in taking an interest in who the manager is, is there?
I was never a fan of any of the managers employed since O'Neill walked but as I said earlier, you pay peanuts you attract monkeys. Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood prove that. They never stood a chance. What was their remit? Cut wages buy relatively cheap and keep us in the PL?
That's your problem and it's 100% down to the chairman.
What's moneyball?
No decent manager will come to the club while we run the club on a shoestring, and that is our problem in a nutshell which is 100% down to Randy Lerner in my humble opinion.
So if that's the main problem, how do you account for managers at the likes of Stoke, Swansea, Crystal Palace and (urgh) West Brom all spending less money than us over the last few years and doing considerably better?
Surely as they are being run on even more of a "shoestring" than us then no decent managers are going to want to go to them either?
As Paulie said earlier, we're not being run on anything like the financial footing to be challenging the top six, but we're in no way running on a financial footing to be hanging around the bottom three either.
PS - yes I'm interested in who the new manager is because perhaps the new one will give us a short term lift (like Sherwood gave) and keep us in this bloody league.
How many more managers are we going to blame for this sorry mess?
I don't remember you being so supportive of Lambert if you think it is wrong to be blaming the managers. Or McLeish, for that matter.
Once again, I don't disagree with your view on Lerner's incompetence. He hasn't got the first clue.
My only point was that given a choice of manager sacked and the structure we have in place now here versus the manager getting sacked and Paul Faulkner on the phone to Lerner every other day desperately trying to sort it out.
The fact is, he's not going to start to spend huge money again, is he? So we are going to have to do as well as we can within those parameters.
Currently and for the last few years we have failed to even do as well as you might expect within those limits. Nowhere near, in fact.
If you've just decided we're going to float around the relegation places regardless, then there's not even any point in taking an interest in who the manager is, is there?
I was never a fan of any of the managers employed since O'Neill walked but as I said earlier, you pay peanuts you attract monkeys. Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood prove that. They never stood a chance. What was their remit? Cut wages buy relatively cheap and keep us in the PL?
That's your problem and it's 100% down to the chairman.
Houllier broke our transfer record. I wouldn't say his time here proved anything, really.
As for McLeish and Lambert never standing a chance, once again, I don't recall you taking that view when we were all gagging for them to get the sack.
I don't call paying Charles N'Zogbia 65k a week doing things on the cheap.
The way I see it, that system is prone to failure if there is no synergy between the money men and the football men. For example, Veretout's data might be impeccable, but the reality of him gelling within a team that's immediately under pressure of relegation, and which is already trying to integrate many other overseas players like him, may not be practical. It would take a football man (not Sherwood) to know whether it's going to work or not, to advise on the right blend of players, i.e. the team.
Analysing data is sabermetrics, not moneyball.
What's moneyball?
No decent manager will come to the club while we run the club on a shoestring, and that is our problem in a nutshell which is 100% down to Randy Lerner in my humble opinion.
So if that's the main problem, how do you account for managers at the likes of Stoke, Swansea, Crystal Palace and (urgh) West Brom all spending less money than us over the last few years and doing considerably better?
Surely as they are being run on even more of a "shoestring" than us then no decent managers are going to want to go to them either?
As Paulie said earlier, we're not being run on anything like the financial footing to be challenging the top six, but we're in no way running on a financial footing to be hanging around the bottom three either.
5+years of cutbacks at this club, our best players sold and replaced by shite not fit to wear the shirt. "Young and hungry" lower league rubbish wrapped up in tinsel hoping the fans will fall for the lies and the slow decline of the club. That's the difference between us and those clubs you mention.
No decent manager will come to the club while we run the club on a shoestring, and that is our problem in a nutshell which is 100% down to Randy Lerner in my humble opinion.
So if that's the main problem, how do you account for managers at the likes of Stoke, Swansea, Crystal Palace and (urgh) West Brom all spending less money than us over the last few years and doing considerably better?
Surely as they are being run on even more of a "shoestring" than us then no decent managers are going to want to go to them either?
As Paulie said earlier, we're not being run on anything like the financial footing to be challenging the top six, but we're in no way running on a financial footing to be hanging around the bottom three either.
5+years of cutbacks at this club, our best players sold and replaced by shite not fit to wear the shirt. "Young and hungry" lower league rubbish wrapped up in tinsel hoping the fans will fall for the lies and the slow decline of the club. That's the difference between us and those clubs you mention.
Swansea sold Bony, Allen, and Davies for £28m, £15m and £10m and replaced them with a free transfer, a £5m midfielder from Celtic and a bloke from their youth team.
I wonder if their forums are full of people shouting about lies and the slow decline of their club. So if you could be a bit more specific about the difference - as far as I can see it's the fact that they just spend their small amounts of money a lot better than we spent our small amounts of money.
No decent manager will come to the club while we run the club on a shoestring, and that is our problem in a nutshell which is 100% down to Randy Lerner in my humble opinion.
So if that's the main problem, how do you account for managers at the likes of Stoke, Swansea, Crystal Palace and (urgh) West Brom all spending less money than us over the last few years and doing considerably better?
Surely as they are being run on even more of a "shoestring" than us then no decent managers are going to want to go to them either?
As Paulie said earlier, we're not being run on anything like the financial footing to be challenging the top six, but we're in no way running on a financial footing to be hanging around the bottom three either.
5+years of cutbacks at this club, our best players sold and replaced by shite not fit to wear the shirt. "Young and hungry" lower league rubbish wrapped up in tinsel hoping the fans will fall for the lies and the slow decline of the club. That's the difference between us and those clubs you mention.
Swansea sold Bony, Allen, and Davies for £28m, £15m and £10m and replaced them with a free transfer, a £5m midfielder from Celtic and a bloke from their youth team.
I wonder if their forums are full of people shouting about lies and the slow decline of their club. So if you could be a bit more specific about the difference - as far as I can see it's the fact that they just spend their small amounts of money a lot better than we spent our small amounts of money.
We've had 5 years of this misery now and you're still blaming the symptoms and not the cause.
Fair enough.
No decent manager will come to the club while we run the club on a shoestring, and that is our problem in a nutshell which is 100% down to Randy Lerner in my humble opinion.
So if that's the main problem, how do you account for managers at the likes of Stoke, Swansea, Crystal Palace and (urgh) West Brom all spending less money than us over the last few years and doing considerably better?
Surely as they are being run on even more of a "shoestring" than us then no decent managers are going to want to go to them either?
As Paulie said earlier, we're not being run on anything like the financial footing to be challenging the top six, but we're in no way running on a financial footing to be hanging around the bottom three either.
5+years of cutbacks at this club, our best players sold and replaced by shite not fit to wear the shirt. "Young and hungry" lower league rubbish wrapped up in tinsel hoping the fans will fall for the lies and the slow decline of the club. That's the difference between us and those clubs you mention.
Swansea sold Bony, Allen, and Davies for £28m, £15m and £10m and replaced them with a free transfer, a £5m midfielder from Celtic and a bloke from their youth team.
I wonder if their forums are full of people shouting about lies and the slow decline of their club. So if you could be a bit more specific about the difference - as far as I can see it's the fact that they just spend their small amounts of money a lot better than we spent our small amounts of money.
We've had 5 years of this misery now and you're still blaming the symptoms and not the cause.
Fair enough.
so if Swansea can do it in the cheap, why can't we?
Analysing data is sabermetrics, not moneyball.
What's moneyball?
To simplify it as much as possible, signing players that are massively undervalued by other clubs that can do what you highly value. In Billy Beane's case, this was mainly the ability to get on base. It had little to nothing to do with signing a 21 year old full of promise to sell for more later, as highly promising players they weren't undervalued in the first place. He'd sign a 35 year old for a year if he could afford him and he got on base. He used sabermetrics to find these players. It's called moneyball as the Oakland annual budget was say $40m and he was trying to find a way to compete with teams like the Yankees spending $130m a year.
As an example, signing Paul McGrath (considered injured, past it and not wanted by his club) is more 'moneyball' than signing Ashley Young from Watford for a good chunk of money.
so if Swansea can do it in the cheap, why can't we?
Great.
So, if we're using data analysis to sign players on a budget below that of bigger (or bigger spending) clubs, in order to compete with them, it's moneyball.
No, we're trying to sign young talented players just as we and every other club have been for decades.
So, if we're using data analysis to sign players on a budget below that of bigger (or bigger spending) clubs, in order to compete with them, it's moneyball.
I genuinely don't get it. How does that differ from what pretty much every other club does?
They all use statistics to scout players. They (very nearly) all have other clubs they are competing with, who have more money than they do.
The word statistics gets used as if it is the only thing they use, ie 'his stats look good, let's get him' without actually scouting them, which I am sure won't be the case.
So, if we're using data analysis to sign players on a budget below that of bigger (or bigger spending) clubs, in order to compete with them, it's moneyball.
I genuinely don't get it. How does that differ from what pretty much every other club does?
They all use statistics to scout players. They (very nearly) all have other clubs they are competing with, who have more money than they do.
The word statistics gets used as if it is the only thing they use, ie 'his stats look good, let's get him' without actually scouting them, which I am sure won't be the case.
I've don't get it either. But the way it used to be, in simplistic terms, was: scouts scout, report back, manager decides who to buy, board either gives consent or not.
Now it appears it's: data analysis, manager is told which players are coming in.
Again, data analyse is sabermetrics not moneyball. They are 2 entirely different things. Moneyball is signing players on the cheap because everyone else undervalues them but they are exactly what you want. Do you think Amavi was cheap and undervalued by Nice or did we pay £9m? If Nice thought he was shit/average, were happy to get rid and we paid £1m, that could be moneyball if we valued him at a much higher price.
Again, data analyse is sabermetrics not moneyball. They are 2 entirely different things. Moneyball is signing players on the cheap because everyone else undervalues them but they are exactly what you want. Do you think Amavi was cheap and undervalued by Nice or did we pay £9m? If Nice thought he was shit/average, were happy to get rid and we paid £1m, that could be moneyball if we valued him at a much higher price.
I guess one could argue that the likes of Lescott and Bunn (and even going back to Senderos and Cole) are examples of a Moneyball principle.
Just somebody doing it really badly.
So we're doing what we and everyone else has always done but now it's moneyball because it's a phrase that gets thrown around?
Again, data analyse is sabermetrics not moneyball. They are 2 entirely different things. Moneyball is signing players on the cheap because everyone else undervalues them but they are exactly what you want. Do you think Amavi was cheap and undervalued by Nice or did we pay £9m? If Nice thought he was shit/average, were happy to get rid and we paid £1m, that could be moneyball if we valued him at a much higher price.
Again, data analyse is sabermetrics not moneyball. They are 2 entirely different things. Moneyball is signing players on the cheap because everyone else undervalues them but they are exactly what you want. Do you think Amavi was cheap and undervalued by Nice or did we pay £9m? If Nice thought he was shit/average, were happy to get rid and we paid £1m, that could be moneyball if we valued him at a much higher price.
I guess one could argue that the likes of Lescott and Bunn (and even going back to Senderos and Cole) are examples of a Moneyball principle.
Just somebody doing it really badly.
so if Swansea can do it in the cheap, why can't we?
So you at least accept that if Swansea can do it, it is possible?
so if Swansea can do it in the cheap, why can't we?
So you at least accept that if Swansea can do it, it is possible?
If our only remit from the board is to do it on the cheap then God help us.
So we're doing what we and everyone else has always done but now it's moneyball because it's a phrase that gets thrown around?
Again, data analyse is sabermetrics not moneyball. They are 2 entirely different things. Moneyball is signing players on the cheap because everyone else undervalues them but they are exactly what you want. Do you think Amavi was cheap and undervalued by Nice or did we pay £9m? If Nice thought he was shit/average, were happy to get rid and we paid £1m, that could be moneyball if we valued him at a much higher price.
No, the difference is we're buying Amavi from a different league, so you could say it is a form of moneyball if:
a) the board appoint him over the manager's head;
b) we've used analytical data to inform that decision;
and c) the cost of the player is less than a player of similar ability/potential who is already established in the premier league.
It's different to the original American baseball model, because it's a different sport in a different country and system, but you can see why people are using the term moneyball to describe this, if, that is, it's what we're actually doing.
Your interpretation takes the scouting out of it entirely. I don't think that's true. The scouting still goes on, only it is informed by data. That's something everyone does and has done for years now, it is big business.
So we're doing what we and everyone else has always done but now it's moneyball because it's a phrase that gets thrown around?
Again, data analyse is sabermetrics not moneyball. They are 2 entirely different things. Moneyball is signing players on the cheap because everyone else undervalues them but they are exactly what you want. Do you think Amavi was cheap and undervalued by Nice or did we pay £9m? If Nice thought he was shit/average, were happy to get rid and we paid £1m, that could be moneyball if we valued him at a much higher price.
No, the difference is we're buying Amavi from a different league, so you could say it is a form of moneyball if:
a) the board appoint him over the manager's head;
b) we've used analytical data to inform that decision;
and c) the cost of the player is less than a player of similar ability/potential who is already established in the premier league.
It's different to the original American baseball model, because it's a different sport in a different country and system, but you can see why people are using the term moneyball to describe this, if, that is, it's what we're actually doing.
We're getting maximum value for our money by shopping abroad, we aren't buying undervalued players that no one wants. Okore wasn't moneyball, Chelsea were after him. He wasn't undervalued or unwanted by anyone. It really is that simple.
All I see is the media especially throwing the term moneyball around but don't have a clue what it actually means.
so if Swansea can do it in the cheap, why can't we?
So you at least accept that if Swansea can do it, it is possible?
If our only remit from the board is to do it on the cheap then God help us.
At least it'd involve actually 'doing it' rather than mooking around like a flashier version of Wigan Athletic, which is what we're doing at the moment.
The argument about it needing more money becomes less convincing as the gap between what we achieve with the squad we have, and what that squad should achieve gets bigger.
Right now, the gap is significant.
Whatever it is, it's not what we nor any other club in this country has been doing for decades. It's something different, and therefore, until someone comes up with a specific name for it (Foxyball, Paddyball...), it's going to get called moneyball.Why is it different to Newcastle buying the likes of Cabaye, Tioté, Cissé, Sissoko, Santon etc a few years ago?
If we were 6th no one would give a fuck if Randy was ever at VP or BH or never turned up. Where Randy physically is isn't the problem.
Whatever it is, it's not what we nor any other club in this country has been doing for decades. It's something different, and therefore, until someone comes up with a specific name for it (Foxyball, Paddyball...), it's going to get called moneyball.Why is it different to Newcastle buying the likes of Cabaye, Tioté, Cissé, Sissoko, Santon etc a few years ago?
It looks quite a lot like we're trying to do exactly the same thing to me - get better value out of buying some of the better players from clubs and leagues who aren't as rich as we are. Which as PWS says, is just basically transfers. It's not anything particularly new.
It may well be exactly what Newcastle did, if indeed both clubs bought a number of players to a system of data analysis, in order to compete on a budget, and above the manager's say so. To my knowledge, we haven't done that before
All well and good saying cut out the Lerner bashing, but sorry, you buy AVFC that comes with a whole load of responsibility and accountability.
Try page 7 or 8 of this thread. Knock yourself outAll well and good saying cut out the Lerner bashing, but sorry, you buy AVFC that comes with a whole load of responsibility and accountability.
Yes it's so all well and good to say cut out the Lerner bashing that nobody actually said it, still don't let that hold you back.
Try page 7 or 8 of this thread. Knock yourself outAll well and good saying cut out the Lerner bashing, but sorry, you buy AVFC that comes with a whole load of responsibility and accountability.
Yes it's so all well and good to say cut out the Lerner bashing that nobody actually said it, still don't let that hold you back.
You said nobody. I've corrected you.Try page 7 or 8 of this thread. Knock yourself outAll well and good saying cut out the Lerner bashing, but sorry, you buy AVFC that comes with a whole load of responsibility and accountability.
Yes it's so all well and good to say cut out the Lerner bashing that nobody actually said it, still don't let that hold you back.
One post standing up for him and referring to "bashing" in a thread of 223 posts?
You said nobody. I've corrected you.Try page 7 or 8 of this thread. Knock yourself outAll well and good saying cut out the Lerner bashing, but sorry, you buy AVFC that comes with a whole load of responsibility and accountability.
Yes it's so all well and good to say cut out the Lerner bashing that nobody actually said it, still don't let that hold you back.
One post standing up for him and referring to "bashing" in a thread of 223 posts?
It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even if blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
Well when I say "abuse" I mean constructive criticism .It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even if blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
What sort of abuse is acceptable, out of interest?
Well when I say "abuse" I mean constructive criticism .It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even if blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
What sort of abuse is acceptable, out of interest?
It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even if blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even if blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
So he deserves at some points some quite vile personal abuse because he doesn't live up.to.your expectations.
It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even of blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
If it's there, quote it, put my mind at ease :)Walnuts said "nobody" he was wrong. I don't think he needs you jumping to his aid , he's admitted he was wrong so we move on
It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even if blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
So he deserves at some points some quite vile personal abuse because he doesn't live up.to.your expectations.
Deserves all the grief he gets in my book. I doubt that he's bothered though as he clearly doesn't give a shit about the club.
I can't believe you posted that.Well when I say "abuse" I mean constructive criticism .It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even if blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
What sort of abuse is acceptable, out of interest?
Together with that fake General bloke. He deserves a bit too.
It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even of blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
He also deserves a friendly pat on the back for not throwing us under the bus with debt.*
*Yes, I know his board created it.
If it's there, quote it, put my mind at ease :)Walnuts said "nobody" he was wrong. I don't think he needs you jumping to his aid , he's admitted he was wrong so we move on
If it's there, quote it, put my mind at ease :)Walnuts said "nobody" he was wrong. I don't think he needs you jumping to his aid , he's admitted he was wrong so we move on
It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even of blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
He also deserves a friendly pat on the back for not throwing us under the bus with debt.*
*Yes, I know his board created it.
He owns us lock stock and barrel. The club's debt is his debt isn't it?
It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even of blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
He also deserves a friendly pat on the back for not throwing us under the bus with debt.*
*Yes, I know his board created it.
He owns us lock stock and barrel. The club's debt is his debt isn't it?
Vile personal abuse of anyone at any level is not acceptable in my book.
My definition of "abuse" was of a slightly differing order. Calling someone an incompetent, negligent buffoon is abuse , but it's not vile ?? Subjective I guess
Not since he converted the last £90M to equity. Effectively he created £90M of shares in the holding company that he then sold to himself enabling the debt to be written off.It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even of blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
He also deserves a friendly pat on the back for not throwing us under the bus with debt.*
*Yes, I know his board created it.
He owns us lock stock and barrel. The club's debt is his debt isn't it?
He is a fake. He was a General, but he is a fake. You have misinterpreted my words, and equally I missed a commaI can't believe you posted that.Well when I say "abuse" I mean constructive criticism .It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even if blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
What sort of abuse is acceptable, out of interest?
Together with that fake General bloke. He deserves a bit too.
Whatever you think about his involvement with the Villa through his association with Randy, but to describe him as a fake general is beyond brainless.
Can you really not help making yourself look like a complete idiot?
It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even of blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
He also deserves a friendly pat on the back for not throwing us under the bus with debt.*
*Yes, I know his board created it.
He owns us lock stock and barrel. The club's debt is his debt isn't it?
Indeed. Doesn't that make him even more cuddlier?
Vile personal abuse of anyone at any level is not acceptable in my book.
My definition of "abuse" was of a slightly differing order. Calling someone an incompetent, negligent buffoon is abuse , but it's not vile ?? Subjective I guess
Calling someone an incompetent negligent buffoon also isn't 'constructive criticism' is it?
Vile personal abuse of anyone at any level is not acceptable in my book.Not necessarily on this thread, but there's worse dotted around various threads.
My definition of "abuse" was of a slightly differing order. Calling someone an incompetent, negligent buffoon is abuse , but it's not vile ?? Subjective I guess
Not since he converted the last £90M to equity. Effectively he created £90M of shares in the holding company that he then sold to himself enabling the debt to be written off.It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even of blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
He also deserves a friendly pat on the back for not throwing us under the bus with debt.*
*Yes, I know his board created it.
He owns us lock stock and barrel. The club's debt is his debt isn't it?
Risso can almost certainly explain it better.
Not since he converted the last £90M to equity. Effectively he created £90M of shares in the holding company that he then sold to himself enabling the debt to be written off.It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even of blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
He also deserves a friendly pat on the back for not throwing us under the bus with debt.*
*Yes, I know his board created it.
He owns us lock stock and barrel. The club's debt is his debt isn't it?
Risso can almost certainly explain it better.
Vile personal abuse of anyone at any level is not acceptable in my book.
My definition of "abuse" was of a slightly differing order. Calling someone an incompetent, negligent buffoon is abuse , but it's not vile ?? Subjective I guess
Calling someone an incompetent negligent buffoon also isn't 'constructive criticism' is it?
True though.
It's not vile eitherVile personal abuse of anyone at any level is not acceptable in my book.
My definition of "abuse" was of a slightly differing order. Calling someone an incompetent, negligent buffoon is abuse , but it's not vile ?? Subjective I guess
Calling someone an incompetent negligent buffoon also isn't 'constructive criticism' is it?
It's not vile eitherVile personal abuse of anyone at any level is not acceptable in my book.
My definition of "abuse" was of a slightly differing order. Calling someone an incompetent, negligent buffoon is abuse , but it's not vile ?? Subjective I guess
Calling someone an incompetent negligent buffoon also isn't 'constructive criticism' is it?
Vile personal abuse of anyone at any level is not acceptable in my book.Not necessarily on this thread, but there's worse dotted around various threads.
My definition of "abuse" was of a slightly differing order. Calling someone an incompetent, negligent buffoon is abuse , but it's not vile ?? Subjective I guess
Not since he converted the last £90M to equity. Effectively he created £90M of shares in the holding company that he then sold to himself enabling the debt to be written off.It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even of blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
He also deserves a friendly pat on the back for not throwing us under the bus with debt.*
*Yes, I know his board created it.
He owns us lock stock and barrel. The club's debt is his debt isn't it?
Risso can almost certainly explain it better.
And he gets that back when he sells the club?
So I didn't misinterpret your words. I interpreted your words as typed just fine. It was your typing that didn't make your meaning clear.He is a fake. He was a General, but he is a fake. You have misinterpreted my words, and equally I missed a commaI can't believe you posted that.Well when I say "abuse" I mean constructive criticism .It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even if blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
What sort of abuse is acceptable, out of interest?
Together with that fake General bloke. He deserves a bit too.
Whatever you think about his involvement with the Villa through his association with Randy, but to describe him as a fake general is beyond brainless.
Can you really not help making yourself look like a complete idiot?
It may well be exactly what Newcastle did, if indeed both clubs bought a number of players to a system of data analysis, in order to compete on a budget, and above the manager's say so. To my knowledge, we haven't done that before
To my knowledge, we haven't done that now.
I'm responding to ViD who wrongly intimated that I support vile personal abuse of Lerner. I've never advocated that and am responding to his accusations which is quite rich from a poster who has personally abused sherwood on other threads which is his right but the double standards are those of a hypocrite.It's not vile eitherVile personal abuse of anyone at any level is not acceptable in my book.
My definition of "abuse" was of a slightly differing order. Calling someone an incompetent, negligent buffoon is abuse , but it's not vile ?? Subjective I guess
Calling someone an incompetent negligent buffoon also isn't 'constructive criticism' is it?
Who said it was?
Not since he converted the last £90M to equity. Effectively he created £90M of shares in the holding company that he then sold to himself enabling the debt to be written off.It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even of blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
He also deserves a friendly pat on the back for not throwing us under the bus with debt.*
*Yes, I know his board created it.
He owns us lock stock and barrel. The club's debt is his debt isn't it?
Risso can almost certainly explain it better.
And he gets that back when he sells the club?
So I didn't misinterpret your words. I interpreted your words as typed just fine. It was your typing that didn't make your meaning clear.He is a fake. He was a General, but he is a fake. You have misinterpreted my words, and equally I missed a commaI can't believe you posted that.Well when I say "abuse" I mean constructive criticism .It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even if blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
What sort of abuse is acceptable, out of interest?
Together with that fake General bloke. He deserves a bit too.
Whatever you think about his involvement with the Villa through his association with Randy, but to describe him as a fake general is beyond brainless.
Can you really not help making yourself look like a complete idiot?
So just for clarity, in what way us he a fake?
Not since he converted the last £90M to equity. Effectively he created £90M of shares in the holding company that he then sold to himself enabling the debt to be written off.It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even of blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
He also deserves a friendly pat on the back for not throwing us under the bus with debt.*
*Yes, I know his board created it.
He owns us lock stock and barrel. The club's debt is his debt isn't it?
Risso can almost certainly explain it better.
And he gets that back when he sells the club?
Do you forget the years of him frequenting fan forums giving it the big one then once the going got tough he disappeared in a most un-General like way. Fake.So I didn't misinterpret your words. I interpreted your words as typed just fine. It was your typing that didn't make your meaning clear.He is a fake. He was a General, but he is a fake. You have misinterpreted my words, and equally I missed a commaI can't believe you posted that.Well when I say "abuse" I mean constructive criticism .It's there to be seen.
Lerner is a disgrace for the contempt he has shown the fans , months , years even if blanking us. He deserves the abuse.
What sort of abuse is acceptable, out of interest?
Together with that fake General bloke. He deserves a bit too.
Whatever you think about his involvement with the Villa through his association with Randy, but to describe him as a fake general is beyond brainless.
Can you really not help making yourself look like a complete idiot?
So just for clarity, in what way us he a fake?
I don't think it's good business practice to be a fan of your business ?
He never pretended to be a fan of the club in his university days.
He never pretended to be a fan of the club in his university days.
You massive Lerner apologist.
;)
He never pretended to be a fan of the club in his university days.
Vile personal abuse of anyone at any level is not acceptable in my book.Not necessarily on this thread, but there's worse dotted around various threads.
My definition of "abuse" was of a slightly differing order. Calling someone an incompetent, negligent buffoon is abuse , but it's not vile ?? Subjective I guess
Didn't you just call Sherwood a fuckwit twat on another thread?
And as for the rest of the post, what difference would it even make if Randy gave us some quarterly state of the nation address?
The last two times he has said anything about the club, it has been nonsensical rubbish about Shummanites or whatever. If we want someone to bring clarity to the situation, getting Randy to speak to us is right down the list alongside appointing footyskillz as our new press officer.
That's not a slur on Lerner, incidentally, that's just the way it is. It wouldn't make a scrap of difference.
Lerner I view as someone who came with the best of intentions and who monumentally fucked up when he didn't reign MON in at least 12 months earlier than actually happened. Since then we've had a serious of botched appointments as he's tried to get the club's books to balance to actually make the clue saleable whilst keeping the club viable on the pitch.
Collymore ramping up the heat.
I will not tell anyone to hold back against Lerner. You are entitled to your opinion, whatever it may be. Believe me, the abuse he gets on this board is far less than what he got from Browns fan. His incompetence cannot be accepted or condoned.
He's a quiet, awkward man who has no business being the owner of a sports franchise/club. I do not appreciate the way he has handled the club.
Is that vile?
When did he say Sherwood out? I thought he said he was behind him?I think he wants Lerner out , for some reason the club have pulled his column in the programme from this week .
Collymores diatribe is on the Mail's site. Interesting reading.
That's a good point about Stan and Fox, I remember him bigging him up after he met him and saying we had reason to be excited.
Bit of a u-turn.
Stan, he is trying to sell up though.
If he'd been a real fan of the club, he wouldn't have gone to Cambridge University, he'd have gone to Birmingham Poly.
If he'd been a real fan of the club, he wouldn't have gone to Cambridge University, he'd have gone to Birmingham Poly.
Warwick Uni, surely?
I don't post very often, but I read on here a lot. I thought I'd just share a thought I've had that has made me think everything is going to be okay. Now, I should point out that this is almost psychotic in its optimism, and based on nothing more than a series of hunches, but hey, when the other choice (reality?) is so depressing, I reserve the right to make up something to keep spirits high. Life is more fun this way.Good to see weed is still abundant at Uni. Enjoy son.
So my theory is that all of this, the apparent mess we find ourselves in, is all part of the grand plan. Everything. Maybe not Randy's, but a plan non the less.
Think back to February and the aftermath of that Hull match. It was clear that Lambert had to go, and the rumours of a 'relegation zone clause' seemed to make sense considering the timing, probably saving the club a million quid or so. To replace him, while there may have been plenty of good managers around the world (and my knowledge of world football is not very good) that could have come in and done well, there would have been a certain amount of risk involved with bringing in a manager unaccustomed to the Premier League, and at the time we didn't really have any time to let someone get used to the surroundings; staying up was the only option. What we needed was a confident, brash motivator that could get the team playing with a bit more belief and utilise one of the best strikers in Europe. While Tim was a risk, he was a more calculated risk.
The other advantage of choosing a young manager with, let's put it politely, a good deal of confidence in his own ability, is that he might have been happy to sign certain performance related clauses in his contract…
Anyway, we survived. The first part of the plan was a success! However, to put the long term future of the club in the hands of a man with such little experience, and who's deficiencies as a manager were already being exploited by the end of the season, would have been suicide. But what can you do? You can't sack the man that saved you, but letting him spend what precious little money you had would be like letting your seven year old decorate the lounge.
So, you take control of the signings, but humour the egomaniac (who is very hurt by the 'Tactics Tim' nickname) by feeding him a few lines so he can tell the world how clever he is by buying players most fans haven't heard of. You buy players with potential; good technique, quick and relatively young that will both improve the team and increase in value. (You give the manager some of the change at the end to buy a big bloke, just to keep him happy for a bit).
Once the season starts, either it works well with the current manager (unlikely, but great if it does), or it goes horribly wrong, which you've protected yourself against: the contract he signed had a clause in it which states if the team is in the relegation zone (that old chestnut!) at any point after 10 games, you can sack him with much less compensation. Why 10 games? Well there needed to be some protection in case we got dealt a start from hell (which we definitely didn't!) and 10 games seems fair enough. If we're in the relegation zone after 10 games, he's not up to the job but there is still time to bring someone to turn it all around.
When it starts going wrong, he'll undoubtedly start to defend himself, using his cronies in the media. But just keep a dignified silence. It will all be over soon, and he's just making a fool of himself. Don't even make a comment about pigs and muck. Maybe just leak a story that his job is in danger, just so it's not all one way in the press.
Then after the inevitable sacking, and this is the important bit, you can finally appoint your man, that you've been speaking to for a few weeks. A thinker, a man that will both inspire and mould the team. Someone who can use the talented players that you have in place and set a system up that will last well beyond his tenure (I don't know who this could be, by the way!). And as the talented players inevitably get poached by the bigger boys, you'll use the profits to buy more, keeping a bit back for one almighty assault a few years down the line. Everything is going to be okay! Exciting, even!
So you see, fellow Villa sufferers, we don't need to worry. The people in charge know exactly what they're doing, and by the new year, this three week period of confusion, uncertainty and rumour will be a distant dream. Of course, on Monday we might appoint Bob Bradley and be relegated by Christmas. Even at my most optimistic, I couldn't spin that as a good thing.
(Sorry for blabbering on!)
That's a wonderful read Boozey. I like your thinking vey much.Quite agree.
If he'd done his MBA at Warwick or Aston business schools we probably wouldn't be in this mess now.If he'd been a real fan of the club, he wouldn't have gone to Cambridge University, he'd have gone to Birmingham Poly.
Warwick Uni, surely?
So a vicious circle of Hope - Upturn - Downturn - Crash - Reset - Hope... is okay?
We are the most unstable and poorly run club in the league. Watford play better football, Crystal Palace get better results, West Ham have a better manager, Swansea have a better business plan, and Southampton have a better academy. I would consider us "bigger" than all of those clubs yet we're a genuine laughing stock (in every category) that can't even put 90 minutes together at home.
Boozey you say? How ironic.
All sound logic, however, does anyone really have faith that we would appoint the 'right' manager
We have people making decision that have experience within the game at a high level and within a very good club like Arsenal, with clear knowledge of continental players.
Is it out of the realms of possibility to conclude that their knowledge might extend to managers too?
Like others have said, and I like the cut of Boozeys post, I get the impression that the system that has been implemented is tailored made for somebody from Europe or further afield and that is the route they will take.
We have people making decision that have experience within the game at a high level and within a very good club like Arsenal, with clear knowledge of continental players.
Is it out of the realms of possibility to conclude that their knowledge might extend to managers too?
We have people making decision that have experience within the game at a high level and within a very good club like Arsenal, with clear knowledge of continental players.
Is it out of the realms of possibility to conclude that their knowledge might extend to managers too?
I think this is what I'm basing a lot of hope on. Something about this summer felt very different; not the normal Villa signings. For example, non of the players we bought scored against us last season...
I think most of us where excited by the signings. Who's to say we won't be excited by the next manager?
These aren't the same guys that picked TSM.
We have people making decision that have experience within the game at a high level and within a very good club like Arsenal, with clear knowledge of continental players.
Is it out of the realms of possibility to conclude that their knowledge might extend to managers too?
We have people making decision that have experience within the game at a high level and within a very good club like Arsenal, with clear knowledge of continental players.
Is it out of the realms of possibility to conclude that their knowledge might extend to managers too?
I think this is what I'm basing a lot of hope on. Something about this summer felt very different; not the normal Villa signings. For example, non of the players we bought scored against us last season...
I think most of us where excited by the signings. Who's to say we won't be excited by the next manager?
These aren't the same guys that picked TSM.
Something felt different?
Didn't Sherwood just spend the money generated from sales and the usual £8 or £9m on top?
We have people making decision that have experience within the game at a high level and within a very good club like Arsenal, with clear knowledge of continental players.
Is it out of the realms of possibility to conclude that their knowledge might extend to managers too?
I think this is what I'm basing a lot of hope on. Something about this summer felt very different; not the normal Villa signings. For example, non of the players we bought scored against us last season...
I think most of us where excited by the signings. Who's to say we won't be excited by the next manager?
These aren't the same guys that picked TSM.
Something felt different?
Didn't Sherwood just spend the money generated from sales and the usual £8 or £9m on top?
The difference is not the amount but the type of signing surely?
We have people making decision that have experience within the game at a high level and within a very good club like Arsenal, with clear knowledge of continental players.
Is it out of the realms of possibility to conclude that their knowledge might extend to managers too?
I think this is what I'm basing a lot of hope on. Something about this summer felt very different; not the normal Villa signings. For example, non of the players we bought scored against us last season...
I think most of us where excited by the signings. Who's to say we won't be excited by the next manager?
These aren't the same guys that picked TSM.
Something felt different?
Didn't Sherwood just spend the money generated from sales and the usual £8 or £9m on top?
A W16 engine when stripped and separated in a disorganised fashion won't achieve the extreme locomotion that you desire, even if the individual parts look quite shiny and interesting.
That's how I see our players at the moment; I like the look of most of them, but they are so badly organised, with no decernable way of attacking or defending, that it doesn't matter how good they are.
Although our players probably won't purr as majestically as the W16 when put together.
A W16 engine when stripped and separated in a disorganised fashion won't achieve the extreme locomotion that you desire, even if the individual parts look quite shiny and interesting.
That's how I see our players at the moment; I like the look of most of them, but they are so badly organised, with no decernable way of attacking or defending, that it doesn't matter how good they are.
Although our players probably won't purr as majestically as the W16 when put together.
Our engine shudders along like chitty chitty bang bang.
We have people making decision that have experience within the game at a high level and within a very good club like Arsenal, with clear knowledge of continental players.
Is it out of the realms of possibility to conclude that their knowledge might extend to managers too?
I think this is what I'm basing a lot of hope on. Something about this summer felt very different; not the normal Villa signings. For example, non of the players we bought scored against us last season...
I think most of us where excited by the signings. Who's to say we won't be excited by the next manager?
These aren't the same guys that picked TSM.
Something felt different?
Didn't Sherwood just spend the money generated from sales and the usual £8 or £9m on top?
The difference is not the amount but the type of signing surely?
You honestly been that impressed by what you've seen from them so far?
A W16 engine when stripped and separated in a disorganised fashion won't achieve the extreme locomotion that you desire, even if the individual parts look quite shiny and interesting.
That's how I see our players at the moment; I like the look of most of them, but they are so badly organised, with no decernable way of attacking or defending, that it doesn't matter how good they are.
Although our players probably won't purr as majestically as the W16 when put together.
Our engine shudders along like chitty chitty bang bang.
Which means with the right operator it could fly...
We have people making decision that have experience within the game at a high level and within a very good club like Arsenal, with clear knowledge of continental players.
Is it out of the realms of possibility to conclude that their knowledge might extend to managers too?
I think this is what I'm basing a lot of hope on. Something about this summer felt very different; not the normal Villa signings. For example, non of the players we bought scored against us last season...
I think most of us where excited by the signings. Who's to say we won't be excited by the next manager?
These aren't the same guys that picked TSM.
Something felt different?
Didn't Sherwood just spend the money generated from sales and the usual £8 or £9m on top?
The difference is not the amount but the type of signing surely?
You honestly been that impressed by what you've seen from them so far?
I think most of the players have shown promise to varying degrees
Amavi has been the standout signing
Gana has had a few good games, although seems to be having a dip at the moment
Gestede has looked quite limited overall but is good in the box with his head as long as he is running onto the ball
Ayew has shown glimpses in 2 or 3 games
Traore looks very raw but exciting
Veretout looks off the pace but is improving and has a lovely first touch
Richards has been largely impressive despite being caught out of position a few times
Lescott has looked like a baggies reject unfortunately
Crespo is difficult to comment on, improved as the game went on against Stoke
Some of them need patience shown which a lot of us don't always give new signings, they may or may not come off but only time will tell
We have people making decision that have experience within the game at a high level and within a very good club like Arsenal, with clear knowledge of continental players.
Is it out of the realms of possibility to conclude that their knowledge might extend to managers too?
I think this is what I'm basing a lot of hope on. Something about this summer felt very different; not the normal Villa signings. For example, non of the players we bought scored against us last season...
I think most of us where excited by the signings. Who's to say we won't be excited by the next manager?
These aren't the same guys that picked TSM.
Something felt different?
Didn't Sherwood just spend the money generated from sales and the usual £8 or £9m on top?
The difference is not the amount but the type of signing surely?
You honestly been that impressed by what you've seen from them so far?
We have people making decision that have experience within the game at a high level and within a very good club like Arsenal, with clear knowledge of continental players.
Is it out of the realms of possibility to conclude that their knowledge might extend to managers too?
I think this is what I'm basing a lot of hope on. Something about this summer felt very different; not the normal Villa signings. For example, non of the players we bought scored against us last season...
I think most of us where excited by the signings. Who's to say we won't be excited by the next manager?
These aren't the same guys that picked TSM.
Something felt different?
Didn't Sherwood just spend the money generated from sales and the usual £8 or £9m on top?
The difference is not the amount but the type of signing surely?
You honestly been that impressed by what you've seen from them so far?
I think most of the players have shown promise to varying degrees
Amavi has been the standout signing
Gana has had a few good games, although seems to be having a dip at the moment
Gestede has looked quite limited overall but is good in the box with his head as long as he is running onto the ball
Ayew has shown glimpses in 2 or 3 games
Traore looks very raw but exciting
Veretout looks off the pace but is improving and has a lovely first touch
Richards has been largely impressive despite being caught out of position a few times
Lescott has looked like a baggies reject unfortunately
Crespo is difficult to comment on, improved as the game went on against Stoke
Some of them need patience shown which a lot of us don't always give new signings, they may or may not come off but only time will tell
Patience is something Villa fans have been martyrs to over the last 5 years.
"We bought in a different way"
I think I'll file that alongside "young and hungry".
We have people making decision that have experience within the game at a high level and within a very good club like Arsenal, with clear knowledge of continental players.
Is it out of the realms of possibility to conclude that their knowledge might extend to managers too?
I think this is what I'm basing a lot of hope on. Something about this summer felt very different; not the normal Villa signings. For example, non of the players we bought scored against us last season...
I think most of us where excited by the signings. Who's to say we won't be excited by the next manager?
These aren't the same guys that picked TSM.
Something felt different?
Didn't Sherwood just spend the money generated from sales and the usual £8 or £9m on top?
The difference is not the amount but the type of signing surely?
You honestly been that impressed by what you've seen from them so far?
I think most of the players have shown promise to varying degrees
Amavi has been the standout signing
Gana has had a few good games, although seems to be having a dip at the moment
Gestede has looked quite limited overall but is good in the box with his head as long as he is running onto the ball
Ayew has shown glimpses in 2 or 3 games
Traore looks very raw but exciting
Veretout looks off the pace but is improving and has a lovely first touch
Richards has been largely impressive despite being caught out of position a few times
Lescott has looked like a baggies reject unfortunately
Crespo is difficult to comment on, improved as the game went on against Stoke
Some of them need patience shown which a lot of us don't always give new signings, they may or may not come off but only time will tell
Current opinion on Lerner should depend on whether or not you think he is still treating things at Villa as 'business as usual'. I use that phrase as in the summer, when the supposed takeover collapsed the staff were briefed and all were told no takeover currently and business as usual. Therefore, I would have expected like other clubs to have proceeded with a decent transfer budget for the relatively new manager in order for us to make a decent challenge to achieve mid table respectability. The debate comes as to whether or not you believe a slight of hand has taken place over the transfer dealings.
Some say that net spend isn't an indicator of anything but actual spend on purchases is. To that end, Lerner has indeed delivered regarding transfers. The other viewpoint is that net spend of less than £10m for at least the 2nd season on the trot is not treating it as business as usual.
I have to say that given the high profile departures in the summer, together with the potential TV revenue at the beginning of next season the net spend figure is very relevant this season. And in my view, a net spend of much less than West Bromwich Albion (as an example) is asking for trouble given where we finished last season.
So my view is and I know there will be people who disagree is that he is treating us like fools if he thinks we will swallow the gross spend as 'business as usual'. The squad needed a massive overhaul with not just quantity but quality. We find ourselves now deep in the relegation mire with a slightly upgraded version of Lamberts/Lerners 'young and hungry' policy that failed miserably a couple of years back - with no Benteke to drag us out of the mire.
In order for us to stand any chance of survival this season, with or without Sherwood in charge, there has to be some serious cash spent on one or two key positions in January and then we have to hope by that time we are not cut adrift. Only if that happens will I believe Lerner has any interest in us whatsoever anymore.
I would have thought spending some big money on replacing the player who's pretty much single handedly kept us up for years was a must. I wasn't expecting to find ourselves with the Blackburn centre forward as our main replacement for him, very underwhelming.
We are amongst the lowest net spenders in the league for the last two seasons. I'm not saying the players bought in wont work but a lot of them were untried at this level so maybe an Austin, a Lennon and another younger version of lescott might have made it better.
I would have thought spending some big money on replacing the player who's pretty much single handedly kept us up for years was a must. I wasn't expecting to find ourselves with the Blackburn centre forward as our main replacement for him, very underwhelming.Indeed . £15m should of gone on Austin and big wages. As it stands we are now fucked. He will cost even more come January aswell .
I would have thought spending some big money on replacing the player who's pretty much single handedly kept us up for years was a must. I wasn't expecting to find ourselves with the Blackburn centre forward as our main replacement for him, very underwhelming.Indeed . £15m should of gone on Austin and big wages. As it stands we are now fucked. He will cost even more come January aswell .
Austin is a proven goal machine. He would of been ideal even if too expensive and mega wages .
I don't care about anybody else.Austin is a proven goal machine. He would of been ideal even if too expensive and mega wages .
So why did nobody else buy him?
I don't care about anybody else.Austin is a proven goal machine. He would of been ideal even if too expensive and mega wages .
So why did nobody else buy him?
Austin is a proven goal machine. He would of been ideal even if too expensive and mega wages .
I don't care about anybody else.Austin is a proven goal machine. He would of been ideal even if too expensive and mega wages .
So why did nobody else buy him?
Maybe you don't, but if he was as good you say, he wouldn't be at QPR halfway down the championship.
I don't care about anybody else.Austin is a proven goal machine. He would of been ideal even if too expensive and mega wages .
So why did nobody else buy him?
Maybe you don't, but if he was as good you say, he wouldn't be at QPR halfway down the championship.
The same kind of position the club we bought Gestede from were in last season?
I'm really surprised no one bought Austin this summer. Then again he said last month that he turned down a PL club in the summer as the move didn't feel right so it's not like no one was after him.
I don't care about anybody else.Austin is a proven goal machine. He would of been ideal even if too expensive and mega wages .
So why did nobody else buy him?
Maybe you don't, but if he was as good you say, he wouldn't be at QPR halfway down the championship.
The same kind of position the club we bought Gestede from were in last season?
I'm really surprised no one bought Austin this summer. Then again he said last month that he turned down a PL club in the summer as the move didn't feel right so it's not like no one was after him.
And? He's already said he turned down a move so the "why did nobody else buy him" point is irrelevant because at least one PL club did try.
I would have thought spending some big money on replacing the player who's pretty much single handedly kept us up for years was a must. I wasn't expecting to find ourselves with the Blackburn centre forward as our main replacement for him, very underwhelming.Indeed . £15m should of gone on Austin and big wages. As it stands we are now fucked. He will cost even more come January aswell .
Not my valuation that was the sort of number being banded about in the summerI would have thought spending some big money on replacing the player who's pretty much single handedly kept us up for years was a must. I wasn't expecting to find ourselves with the Blackburn centre forward as our main replacement for him, very underwhelming.Indeed . £15m should of gone on Austin and big wages. As it stands we are now fucked. He will cost even more come January aswell .
With five months left on his contract?
We'll file this alongside all the other things that you've not thought through properly.
Think. Sweet tapdancing christ, think.Not my valuation that was the sort of number being banded about in the summerI would have thought spending some big money on replacing the player who's pretty much single handedly kept us up for years was a must. I wasn't expecting to find ourselves with the Blackburn centre forward as our main replacement for him, very underwhelming.Indeed . £15m should of gone on Austin and big wages. As it stands we are now fucked. He will cost even more come January aswell .
With five months left on his contract?
We'll file this alongside all the other things that you've not thought through properly.
Jan is always an inflated window with panic buys the norm
Jan is always an inflated window with panic buys the norm
Probably closer to about £8m in Jan
Probably closer to about £8m in Jan
The abacus has been found out the loft.
We're stuck with RL I'm afraid. No one has bought a Premier League club since the Arabs bought Citeh. It's just not where the smart money is going.
We're stuck with RL I'm afraid. No one has bought a Premier League club since the Arabs bought Citeh. It's just not where the smart money is going.
We're stuck with RL I'm afraid. No one has bought a Premier League club since the Arabs bought Citeh. It's just not where the smart money is going.
We're stuck with RL I'm afraid. No one has bought a Premier League club since the Arabs bought Citeh. It's just not where the smart money is going.
Apart from the people who bought Blackburn, Fulham, Liverpool, QPR, Blues and Sunderland.
Fulham were the last the year that they went down.
It's overratedWe're stuck with RL I'm afraid. No one has bought a Premier League club since the Arabs bought Citeh. It's just not where the smart money is going.
Apart from the people who bought Blackburn, Fulham, Liverpool, QPR, Blues and Sunderland.
Fulham were the last the year that they went down.
Oh yeah. That'll learn me to think before I post.
It's overratedWe're stuck with RL I'm afraid. No one has bought a Premier League club since the Arabs bought Citeh. It's just not where the smart money is going.
Apart from the people who bought Blackburn, Fulham, Liverpool, QPR, Blues and Sunderland.
Fulham were the last the year that they went down.
Oh yeah. That'll learn me to think before I post.
So, out of two outbursts this week, which of Collymores opinions is his real one?
Does he even know?
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/10/19/stan-collymore-suggests-problem-with-aston-villa-sticking-by-tim/
So, out of two outbursts this week, which of Collymores opinions is his real one?
Does he even know?
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/10/19/stan-collymore-suggests-problem-with-aston-villa-sticking-by-tim/
Isn't it me, or are Collymores recent rantings more to do with his ego being bruised by losing his programme column? He seems to be blocking Villa fans on twitter who are daring to question him.
So, out of two outbursts this week, which of Collymores opinions is his real one?
Does he even know?
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/10/19/stan-collymore-suggests-problem-with-aston-villa-sticking-by-tim/
Isn't it me, or are Collymores recent rantings more to do with his ego being bruised by losing his programme column? He seems to be blocking Villa fans on twitter who are daring to question him.
Well it was your valuation because it was you that said he'd cost more in Jan. He won't as he'll be available on a free 5 months later. So who on earth is going to spend £16m+ in Jan?
Someone will panic and pay a serious premium for him. Good chance it will be us unless we are already gone by thenWell it was your valuation because it was you that said he'd cost more in Jan. He won't as he'll be available on a free 5 months later. So who on earth is going to spend £16m+ in Jan?
We probobly will.
Someone will panic and pay a serious premium for him. Good chance it will be us unless we are already gone by thenWell it was your valuation because it was you that said he'd cost more in Jan. He won't as he'll be available on a free 5 months later. So who on earth is going to spend £16m+ in Jan?
We probobly will.
So, out of two outbursts this week, which of Collymores opinions is his real one?
Does he even know?
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/10/19/stan-collymore-suggests-problem-with-aston-villa-sticking-by-tim/
Isn't it me, or are Collymores recent rantings more to do with his ego being bruised by losing his programme column? He seems to be blocking Villa fans on twitter who are daring to question him.
I read about him blocking people who disagree with him earlier. He's a bit fragile, is Stan.
Interesting radio clip from Lambert
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p036b1kt
Interesting radio clip from Lambert
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p036b1kt
If he knew the financial constraints I'd just question why he was talking to Lukaku, Bony and Erikssen. They weren't coming for peanuts were they.
Interesting radio clip from Lambert
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p036b1kt
If he knew the financial constraints I'd just question why he was talking to Lukaku, Bony and Erikssen. They weren't coming for peanuts were they.
I don't see much wrong with what he said there. If he wanted those players why not speak to them to ascertain what was what?
Aston Villa Supporters Trust call for Randy Lerner resignation update
Supporters question Randy Lerner's future and hit out at a "litany of poor appointments"
06:34, 28 OCT 2015 UPDATED 06:48, 28 OCT 2015
BY MAT KENDRICK
Aston Villa fans have called for Randy Lerner to provide an urgent update on his search for a new chairman.
Villa are currently seeking a manager after the board sacked Tim Sherwood on Sunday with the claret and blues rooted in the Premier League relegation zone.
And the Aston Villa Supporters Trust have reacted to the latest crisis at the club by reminding Lerner of a pledge he made in May.
During a rare interview Lerner gave with The Times newspaper, the American owner claimed he planned to stand down as chairman and appoint a replacement if he failed to find a buyer for the club.
He said: "This year plan A remains to find a buyer if on the cards or, plan B, find a new chairman."
In a statement issued by the AVST, fans reminded him of those words.
They wrote: "We also remind Randy Lerner that he stated in May if he couldn’t finalise a sale of the club he’d resign and appoint a new chairman. The supporters of Aston Villa would like an urgent update on this."
The group also thanked Sherwood for his efforts, and warned the board the importance of getting his successor right after a "litany of poor appointments".
Here is the AVST statement in full:
The AVST welcomes the news that the Aston Villa board have made a decisive call in ending Tim Sherwood’s time as manager.
The intense speculation in recent weeks, and the leaks coming from within, did nothing but turn the club into a figure of media fun.
We would like to thank Tim for his efforts last season. He was just what was needed short term to shake us from our malaise under Paul Lambert and gave us some memorable occasions in the FA Cup. We wish him the best for the future.
All thoughts and efforts must now turn to finding his replacement. We trust that the new structure at senior level means that this will be tackled swiftly and we will aim for the very best candidate for the short and medium term.
We also implore the club to think wider when considering who right man may be. Premier League experience is not a prerequisite to be considered and we most certainly should not have a shortlist of one as we had in February.
After a litany of poor appointments, we simply cannot afford to choose the wrong man this time. To do so would see us relegated at a time that extraordinary riches are around the corner. We believe this appointment will define the next five years.
We also remind Randy Lerner that he stated in May if he couldn’t finalise a sale of the club he’d resign and appoint a new chairman. The supporters of Aston Villa would like an urgent update on this.
Over to you Aston Villa.
Brum Mail (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-supporters-trust-call-10343190)QuoteAston Villa Supporters Trust call for Randy Lerner resignation update
Supporters question Randy Lerner's future and hit out at a "litany of poor appointments"
06:34, 28 OCT 2015 UPDATED 06:48, 28 OCT 2015
BY MAT KENDRICK
Aston Villa fans have called for Randy Lerner to provide an urgent update on his search for a new chairman.
Villa are currently seeking a manager after the board sacked Tim Sherwood on Sunday with the claret and blues rooted in the Premier League relegation zone.
And the Aston Villa Supporters Trust have reacted to the latest crisis at the club by reminding Lerner of a pledge he made in May.
During a rare interview Lerner gave with The Times newspaper, the American owner claimed he planned to stand down as chairman and appoint a replacement if he failed to find a buyer for the club.
He said: "This year plan A remains to find a buyer if on the cards or, plan B, find a new chairman."
In a statement issued by the AVST, fans reminded him of those words.
They wrote: "We also remind Randy Lerner that he stated in May if he couldn’t finalise a sale of the club he’d resign and appoint a new chairman. The supporters of Aston Villa would like an urgent update on this."
The group also thanked Sherwood for his efforts, and warned the board the importance of getting his successor right after a "litany of poor appointments".
Here is the AVST statement in full:
The AVST welcomes the news that the Aston Villa board have made a decisive call in ending Tim Sherwood’s time as manager.
The intense speculation in recent weeks, and the leaks coming from within, did nothing but turn the club into a figure of media fun.
We would like to thank Tim for his efforts last season. He was just what was needed short term to shake us from our malaise under Paul Lambert and gave us some memorable occasions in the FA Cup. We wish him the best for the future.
All thoughts and efforts must now turn to finding his replacement. We trust that the new structure at senior level means that this will be tackled swiftly and we will aim for the very best candidate for the short and medium term.
We also implore the club to think wider when considering who right man may be. Premier League experience is not a prerequisite to be considered and we most certainly should not have a shortlist of one as we had in February.
After a litany of poor appointments, we simply cannot afford to choose the wrong man this time. To do so would see us relegated at a time that extraordinary riches are around the corner. We believe this appointment will define the next five years.
We also remind Randy Lerner that he stated in May if he couldn’t finalise a sale of the club he’d resign and appoint a new chairman. The supporters of Aston Villa would like an urgent update on this.
Over to you Aston Villa.
I don't know, Deadly hired a Hereford manager to take over a club that had won the European Cup only a few seasons previous.
I don't know, Deadly hired a Hereford manager to take over a club that had won the European Cup only a few seasons previous.
Shrewsbury.
Doug would have sacked him before he'd got on the bus after the 0-8
Losing 8-0 should never be acceptable
Dr. Joe too?
Dr. Joe too?
Possibly the only time Doug was a visionary? 10 years before his time on that one I think.
Dr. Joe too?
Possibly the only time Doug was a visionary? 10 years before his time on that one I think.
I have a feeling we may have been the first or one of the first clubs to install executive boxes under Doug. Whatever you think of them they became a staple of pretty much every stadium, so arguably a bit visionary in that respect.
Mcneill aswell, the original Mcleish appointment.
Doug would have sacked him before he'd got on the bus after the 0-8
Losing 8-0 should never be acceptable
Dr. Joe too?
Possibly the only time Doug was a visionary? 10 years before his time on that one I think.
I have a feeling we may have been the first or one of the first clubs to install executive boxes under Doug. Whatever you think of them they became a staple of pretty much every stadium, so arguably a bit visionary in that respect.
In hindsight it would probably have been better for every one if we had.Doug would have sacked him before he'd got on the bus after the 0-8
Losing 8-0 should never be acceptable
Would/should he have sacked MON for losing 7-1 at the same place with a much better side?
Our elusive chairman is preparing a statement regarding new manager.
Gerard Houllier is assisting Tom Fox, Paddy Reilly and Hendrik Almstadt in finding the right man.
Maybe using him to smooth the waters with Lyon.
Don't shoot the messanger just heard this via a well connected person on coach to Souithampton.
Our elusive chairman is preparing a statement regarding new manager.
Gerard Houllier is assisting Tom Fox, Paddy Reilly and Hendrik Almstadt in finding the right man.
Maybe using him to smooth the waters with Lyon.
Don't shoot the messanger just heard this via a well connected person on coach to Souithampton.
I'll fire myself. I would happily except Houllier in that kind of capacity
In hindsight it would probably have been better for every one if we had.Doug would have sacked him before he'd got on the bus after the 0-8
Losing 8-0 should never be acceptable
Would/should he have sacked MON for losing 7-1 at the same place with a much better side?
Of course that was in the days when we were paying "proper Premier League fees and wages" so that kind of thing could never happen.
I remember when Michael Essien was going nowhere, that you'd have to drag him over Jean-Michel's bloated, fly-riddled dead body to get him away from Lyon - until Chelsea offered £31m, at which point he was gone instantly. That's what we'll have to do with Baticle etc,
I remember when Michael Essien was going nowhere, that you'd have to drag him over Jean-Michel's bloated, fly-riddled dead body to get him away from Lyon - until Chelsea offered £31m, at which point he was gone instantly. That's what we'll have to do with Baticle etc,
I reckon that would be a world record transfer fee for a physio.
Well I agree and I think Doug would of fired MONIn hindsight it would probably have been better for every one if we had.Doug would have sacked him before he'd got on the bus after the 0-8
Losing 8-0 should never be acceptable
Would/should he have sacked MON for losing 7-1 at the same place with a much better side?
Of course that was in the days when we were paying "proper Premier League fees and wages" so that kind of thing could never happen.
I mean just the scoreline though. If 8-0 should be instantly sackable, surely 7-1 with a much stronger side should be as well?
Our elusive chairman is preparing a statement regarding new manager.
Gerard Houllier is assisting Tom Fox, Paddy Reilly and Hendrik Almstadt in finding the right man.
Maybe using him to smooth the waters with Lyon.
Don't shoot the messanger just heard this via a well connected person on coach to Souithampton.
Not Eastie I take it?
In hindsight it would probably have been better for every one if we had.Doug would have sacked him before he'd got on the bus after the 0-8
Losing 8-0 should never be acceptable
Would/should he have sacked MON for losing 7-1 at the same place with a much better side?
Of course that was in the days when we were paying "proper Premier League fees and wages" so that kind of thing could never happen.
I mean just the scoreline though. If 8-0 should be instantly sackable, surely 7-1 with a much stronger side should be as well?
Interestingly, when I'm in charge of the dictionary, an 'Eastie' will be when a gentleman's 'lad' has a natural preference for pointing left. I say 'interestingly', but only in a very loose sense.
That's not the point i'm making though. Would you have sacked MON straight after the 7-1 as well?
Interestingly, when I'm in charge of the dictionary, an 'Eastie' will be when a gentleman's 'lad' has a natural preference for pointing left. I say 'interestingly', but only in a very loose sense.
Where does that leave Ashley Westwood?
Interestingly, when I'm in charge of the dictionary, an 'Eastie' will be when a gentleman's 'lad' has a natural preference for pointing left. I say 'interestingly', but only in a very loose sense.
Where does that leave Ashley Westwood?
Not to mention Clit Eastwood who would not know if he was going or coming and in severe danger of meeting himself coming back and splitting his difference into the bargain. In any case, left is west if your head is north, surely?
That's not the point i'm making though. Would you have sacked MON straight after the 7-1 as well?
Of course not. If you finish top 6 for the third year on the trot then get slaughtered at Chelsea you at least get the benefit of the doubt. Lambert's 8-0 was something else though. I'd have sacked him on the spot and I said it at the time as well.
Interestingly, when I'm in charge of the dictionary, an 'Eastie' will be when a gentleman's 'lad' has a natural preference for pointing left. I say 'interestingly', but only in a very loose sense.
Where does that leave Ashley Westwood?
Not to mention Clit Eastwood who would not know if he was going or coming and in severe danger of meeting himself coming back and splitting his difference into the bargain. In any case, left is west if your head is north, surely?
Typo' or deliberate?
That's not the point i'm making though. Would you have sacked MON straight after the 7-1 as well?
Of course not. If you finish top 6 for the third year on the trot then get slaughtered at Chelsea you at least get the benefit of the doubt. Lambert's 8-0 was something else though. I'd have sacked him on the spot and I said it at the time as well.
I reckon there were four or five occasions - or runs of results more accurately - in Lambert's tenure which would have got pretty much any other manager the sack.
Yet somehow he remained unscathed.
We also had that horrible sequence of: get a really unexpected win (at Anfield, for example) gain plaudits, then go on a truly hideous run of results for 9 or 10 matches, then repeat.
We we still do in Bloxwich.
Well I agree and I think Doug would of fired MONIn hindsight it would probably have been better for every one if we had.Doug would have sacked him before he'd got on the bus after the 0-8
Losing 8-0 should never be acceptable
Would/should he have sacked MON for losing 7-1 at the same place with a much better side?
Of course that was in the days when we were paying "proper Premier League fees and wages" so that kind of thing could never happen.
I mean just the scoreline though. If 8-0 should be instantly sackable, surely 7-1 with a much stronger side should be as well?
He also would not of put up with his antics generally , the day he allegedly resigned and had to be talked back into the job. Doug would of just boot him out
Interestingly, when I'm in charge of the dictionary, an 'Eastie' will be when a gentleman's 'lad' has a natural preference for pointing left. I say 'interestingly', but only in a very loose sense.
Where does that leave Ashley Westwood?
Not to mention Clit Eastwood who would not know if he was going or coming and in severe danger of meeting himself coming back and splitting his difference into the bargain. In any case, left is west if your head is north, surely?
Typo' or deliberate?
Accidentally on purpose, as we we used to say.
FAO Leeg
I saw it, it was just a play on us seemingly trying to go French and it was easier to quote you than the bigger quotathon. You big tart!
*Childish snigger*
Gerard Houllier"You know, Liverpool’s results are the results I always look for. And the title of my book says it all: “Je Ne Marcherai Jamais Seul” ... “I’ll Never Walk Alone”." (http://gu.com/p/4dkh3)
That's not the point i'm making though. Would you have sacked MON straight after the 7-1 as well?
Of course not. If you finish top 6 for the third year on the trot then get slaughtered at Chelsea you at least get the benefit of the doubt. Lambert's 8-0 was something else though. I'd have sacked him on the spot and I said it at the time as well.
I reckon there were four or five occasions - or runs of results more accurately - in Lambert's tenure which would have got pretty much any other manager the sack.
Yet somehow he remained unscathed.
We also had that horrible sequence of: get a really unexpected win (at Anfield, for example) gain plaudits, then go on a truly hideous run of results for 9 or 10 matches, then repeat.
There were plenty of times he could have been sacked and had no complaints. I just disagree that straight after the 8-0 was one of them.
"I'll Never Walk Alone"Agreed. His antics in that 0-3 evening at anfield still makes me feel like throwing up. Twat.
To think we actually employed this Scouse sychophant. I think I feel sick.
"I'll Never Walk Alone"
To think we actually employed this Scouse sychophant. I think I feel sick.
Always thought the total over reaction to Houllier actually having a history at Liverpool was categoric proof of how thin skinned football fans are
Boo hoo he likes another team....hardly a drama!
Always thought it was after O'Neill there was still an expectation that we were aiming high and some were underwhelmed by Houllier appt?Always thought the total over reaction to Houllier actually having a history at Liverpool was categoric proof of how thin skinned football fans are
Boo hoo he likes another team....hardly a drama!
For some reason I've never figured out, virtually everything Houllier did was given less leeway than usual.
Always thought it was after O'Neill there was still an expectation that we were aiming high and some were underwhelmed by Houllier appt?Always thought the total over reaction to Houllier actually having a history at Liverpool was categoric proof of how thin skinned football fans are
Boo hoo he likes another team....hardly a drama!
For some reason I've never figured out, virtually everything Houllier did was given less leeway than usual.
What we wouldn't give for a manager who is proven in setting up a solid team nowadays
Pretty much ever since the Moscow farce our football club seems to have been defined by hissy fit after hissy fit, never feels as though board, mgmt, players & fans are on the same page and united in ambition!
Always thought it was after O'Neill there was still an expectation that we were aiming high and some were underwhelmed by Houllier appt?Always thought the total over reaction to Houllier actually having a history at Liverpool was categoric proof of how thin skinned football fans are
Boo hoo he likes another team....hardly a drama!
For some reason I've never figured out, virtually everything Houllier did was given less leeway than usual.
What we wouldn't give for a manager who is proven in setting up a solid team nowadays
Pretty much ever since the Moscow farce our football club seems to have been defined by hissy fit after hissy fit, never feels as though board, mgmt, players & fans are on the same page and united in ambition!
I wonder if it was because he was ex-Liverpool and for some reason a touch of Scouse brings out the worst in some of ours.
One thing you can always be sure of at Villa is that following a populist manager is a hard task. If successful men who were Villa to the core such as Vic Crowe and Brian Little struggled in the eyes of some in comparison with their predeccessors then Gerard Houllier would have no chance. I also think that we don't like, or maybe trust, the more cerebral type of manager. If he wears his heart on his sleeve (BFR, Gregory, O'Neill) he'll get more of a pass than if he just gets on with the job.
Someone summed it perfectly (sorry can't remember who) when they said Houllier seemed like a consultant sent in to sort things out in a detached way. We tend to prefer to be schmoozed, to feel they 'get' the club, get our history, become one of us etc. Sometimes though you just need a hard nosed bastard to come in and actually fix the problems rather than try and keep people happy.
Someone summed it perfectly (sorry can't remember who) when they said Houllier seemed like a consultant sent in to sort things out in a detached way. We tend to prefer to be schmoozed, to feel they 'get' the club, get our history, become one of us etc. Sometimes though you just need a hard nosed bastard to come in and actually fix the problems rather than try and keep people happy.
Someone summed it perfectly (sorry can't remember who) when they said Houllier seemed like a consultant sent in to sort things out in a detached way. We tend to prefer to be schmoozed, to feel they 'get' the club, get our history, become one of us etc. Sometimes though you just need a hard nosed bastard to come in and actually fix the problems rather than try and keep people happy.
A hard nosed bastard like Shanks or Fergie. There is only one and that is Nigel Pearson.
"I'll Never Walk Alone"
To think we actually employed this Scouse sychophant. I think I feel sick.
How sick did you feel when Graham Taylor came back as Watford manager and spent much of the match waving to us?
I think the antipathy to Houllier is far more basic. The latent prejudice that simmers below the surface of football, like it still does in society was thrown into sharp focus a day or two ago by a poster saying the last person you want in a trench with you is a Frenchman. Houllier was foreign and not to be trusted. If we are lucky enough to get Garde he will get the same treatment, especially if he loses a few games.
That said, the cup surrender at Man City was unforgivable and pissed me off far more than his Anfield antics. Plus as Dave said, we weren't complaining when SGT was doing it the first time he came back with Watford so a bit rich for us to get worked up over it.
Gerard Houllier"You know, Liverpool’s results are the results I always look for. And the title of my book says it all: “Je Ne Marcherai Jamais Seul” ... “I’ll Never Walk Alone”." (http://gu.com/p/4dkh3)
Houllier is assisting Houllier. As ever.
houllier was bang average nothing more nothing less and before we get all teary eyed, i was there on a freezing night when we lost at home to sunderland when ivanhoe hit the bar from a yard out and houllier got pelters and chants of youre getting sacked in the morning.
the 9th place flattered us and from memory 3 points separated 9th and 15th
Houllier was simply around for too short a period for anyone to make a proper judgement. Personally, results aside, that felt to me like that was the last time we had someone in charge with a coherent approach and a sense of where he wanted to go with the squad and the type of football we should be playing.
Houllier had, and still has, plenty of faults. However, Dullins having a big whinge because they didn't want to do a bit of extra jogging instead of getting pissed after training is not really something to blame him for, I feel.
didn't he have Cabaye lined up for us?
didn't he have Cabaye lined up for us?But signed JIIM .
He was a McLeish acquisitiondidn't he have Cabaye lined up for us?
Yes, I think we might have signed Brett Holman instead.
Houllier was simply around for too short a period for anyone to make a proper judgement. Personally, results aside, that felt to me like that was the last time we had someone in charge with a coherent approach and a sense of where he wanted to go with the squad and the type of football we should be playing.
Houllier had, and still has, plenty of faults. However, Dullins having a big whinge because they didn't want to do a bit of extra jogging instead of getting pissed after training is not really something to blame him for, I feel.
We paid money for McLeish.
We actually paid someone else compensation.
We actually paid money to recruit him.
McLeish.
Un-Fucking-Believable.
didn't he have Cabaye lined up for us?But signed JIIM .
He also had Omar Cummings lined up.
I gave up reading when I got to "donkey shit from scum heath" in the first paragraph, which followed a claim we were in the FA Cup final between 2006 and 2010.
didn't he have Cabaye lined up for us?But signed JIIM .
He also had Omar Cummings lined up.
He signed Jean Makoun in January but Cabaye was due to come in the following season. Makoun wasn't signed instead of him.
How did I miss us getting to the FA Cup final between 2006 and 2010? Did we win?
He was a McLeish acquisitiondidn't he have Cabaye lined up for us?
Yes, I think we might have signed Brett Holman instead.
Cant read what the letter Dave? I have tweeted it you.
Blimey, there's another 2 pages to it as well!
I gave up reading when I got to "donkey shit from scum heath" in the first paragraph, which followed a claim we were in the FA Cup final between 2006 and 2010.
Blimey, there's another 2 pages to it as well!
They're probably blank.
"I'll Never Walk Alone"
To think we actually employed this Scouse sychophant. I think I feel sick.
How sick did you feel when Graham Taylor came back as Watford manager and spent much of the match waving to us?
Isn't that a question for the Watford fans?
"I'll Never Walk Alone"
To think we actually employed this Scouse sychophant. I think I feel sick.
How sick did you feel when Graham Taylor came back as Watford manager and spent much of the match waving to us?
Isn't that a question for the Watford fans?
No, it's exactly the same situation. Manager gets a hero's reception from his former club's supporters and responds. I can't remember many Watford fans calling Sir Graham a Brummie sycophant or still feeling sick.
"I'll Never Walk Alone"
To think we actually employed this Scouse sychophant. I think I feel sick.
How sick did you feel when Graham Taylor came back as Watford manager and spent much of the match waving to us?
Isn't that a question for the Watford fans?
No, it's exactly the same situation. Manager gets a hero's reception from his former club's supporters and responds. I can't remember many Watford fans calling Sir Graham a Brummie sycophant or still feeling sick.
Also I recall GED opening statement when he came to the club was about our expectations being too high and we were a 8th - 12th placed club (I'd take that now) but at the the time after we'd finished 6 6 6 that was kind of a kick in the genetalia
But we had a great squad and were still spending big moneyAlso I recall GED opening statement when he came to the club was about our expectations being too high and we were a 8th - 12th placed club (I'd take that now) but at the the time after we'd finished 6 6 6 that was kind of a kick in the genetalia
True, but he probably knew a little bit more of our lack of ambition at the time than we did though.
But we had a great squad and were still spending big moneyAlso I recall GED opening statement when he came to the club was about our expectations being too high and we were a 8th - 12th placed club (I'd take that now) but at the the time after we'd finished 6 6 6 that was kind of a kick in the genetalia
True, but he probably knew a little bit more of our lack of ambition at the time than we did though.
Also I recall GED opening statement when he came to the club was about our expectations being too high and we were a 8th - 12th placed club (I'd take that now) but at the the time after we'd finished 6 6 6 that was kind of a kick in the genetalia
"I'll Never Walk Alone"
To think we actually employed this Scouse sychophant. I think I feel sick.
How sick did you feel when Graham Taylor came back as Watford manager and spent much of the match waving to us?
Isn't that a question for the Watford fans?
No, it's exactly the same situation. Manager gets a hero's reception from his former club's supporters and responds. I can't remember many Watford fans calling Sir Graham a Brummie sycophant or still feeling sick.
Taylor did the business at both clubs so it's no wonder Watford fans didn't mind him waving to the Villa end. A bit different to Houllier who had us playing like a pub team at the wrong end of the table then started kissing arse at Liverpool right in front of already pissed off Villa fans.
"I'll Never Walk Alone"
To think we actually employed this Scouse sychophant. I think I feel sick.
How sick did you feel when Graham Taylor came back as Watford manager and spent much of the match waving to us?
Isn't that a question for the Watford fans?
No, it's exactly the same situation. Manager gets a hero's reception from his former club's supporters and responds. I can't remember many Watford fans calling Sir Graham a Brummie sycophant or still feeling sick.
Taylor did the business at both clubs so it's no wonder Watford fans didn't mind him waving to the Villa end. A bit different to Houllier who had us playing like a pub team at the wrong end of the table then started kissing arse at Liverpool right in front of already pissed off Villa fans.
It's exactly the same, and yet again it's a fable that's grown over the years.
It's not a fable. He pissed fans off at the time if I remember rightly, and it wasn't that long ago either.
Was it the first time he'd been back since he left or was it his first time back with another club?
Remember him touching the "This is Anfield" sign in the tunnel while managing the opposition team which happened to be the Villa. Dear oh dear.
Remember him touching the "This is Anfield" sign in the tunnel while managing the opposition team which happened to be the Villa. Dear oh dear.
Remember him touching the "This is Anfield" sign in the tunnel while managing the opposition team which happened to be the Villa. Dear oh dear.
Remember him touching the "This is Anfield" sign in the tunnel while managing the opposition team which happened to be the Villa. Dear oh dear.
Remember him touching the "This is Anfield" sign in the tunnel while managing the opposition team which happened to be the Villa. Dear oh dear.
Maybe that was a superstition thing for him, it's hardly the end of the world is it? If Sir Brian touched a Villa badge, a lion rampant or whatever in the tunnel at VP before a game when he was the manager of the opposition would you really expect their fans to still be whining about it 5 years later?
Remember him touching the "This is Anfield" sign in the tunnel while managing the opposition team which happened to be the Villa. Dear oh dear.
Maybe that was a superstition thing for him, it's hardly the end of the world is it? If Sir Brian touched a Villa badge, a lion rampant or whatever in the tunnel at VP before a game when he was the manager of the opposition would you really expect their fans to still be whining about it 5 years later?
No one said it was the end of the world but Christ this is the Villa we're talking about not a lower league club having a big day out at Anfield in the Cup.
Remember him touching the "This is Anfield" sign in the tunnel while managing the opposition team which happened to be the Villa. Dear oh dear.
Maybe that was a superstition thing for him, it's hardly the end of the world is it? If Sir Brian touched a Villa badge, a lion rampant or whatever in the tunnel at VP before a game when he was the manager of the opposition would you really expect their fans to still be whining about it 5 years later?
No one said it was the end of the world but Christ this is the Villa we're talking about not a lower league club having a big day out at Anfield in the Cup.
But he didn't do it at Old Trafford, or the Emirates, or anywhere else. He wasn't overrawed, he didn't feel excited at his 'big day out' - Liverpool were a big part of his life, and if you can't forgive him for being a bit emotional about that I sort of worry for you.
Er, there was a bit more to it than him just touching the badge, there was the faux mistaken walk to the home dressing room , and worse the post match comments about if we were going to lose to anyone 3-0 he was "glad" it was them. Plus he spent most of the night doe eyed looking at the Kop etc etc.
Er, there was a bit more to it than him just touching the badge, there was the faux mistaken walk to the home dressing room , and worse the post match comments about if we were going to lose to anyone 3-0 he was "glad" it was them. Plus he spent most of the night doe eyed looking at the Kop etc etc.
Please provide links to support these comments.
Er, there was a bit more to it than him just touching the badge, there was the faux mistaken walk to the home dressing room , and worse the post match comments about if we were going to lose to anyone 3-0 he was "glad" it was them. Plus he spent most of the night doe eyed looking at the Kop etc etc.
Please provide links to support these comments.
Gérard Houllier has been forced to issue a statement to clarify the ill-advised comments he made after Monday night's defeat at Liverpool, when he infuriated Aston Villa supporters by suggesting that the fact he had lost 3-0 to his former club softened the blow.Er, there was a bit more to it than him just touching the badge, there was the faux mistaken walk to the home dressing room , and worse the post match comments about if we were going to lose to anyone 3-0 he was "glad" it was them. Plus he spent most of the night doe eyed looking at the Kop etc etc.
Please provide links to support these comments.
Yep, that looks like a rational adult trying to explain to hysterical children what a joke is.Nah he was a bell end that night. Can't remember how we did v WBA on the Saturday lol
Yep, that looks like a rational adult trying to explain to hysterical children what a joke is.
Yep, that looks like a rational adult trying to explain to hysterical children what a joke is.
I'm sure every Villa fan out there were pissing themselves laughing when he said it right after the 3-0 stuffing. A joke indeed.
The comparison with Stylian Petroc is on the money. How many Villa fans were critical of his ties with Celtic and playing his farewell game in a Celtic shirt? None.
How many Villa fans became outraged when there was not a single picture of Paul McGrath in a Villa shirt in the original version of his biography? None.
The Houllier at Anfield sagaette has become a scab to be picked at. At worst a minor error of judgement at best an outpouring of understandable emotion.
Yep, that looks like a rational adult trying to explain to hysterical children what a joke is.
I'm sure every Villa fan out there were pissing themselves laughing when he said it right after the 3-0 stuffing. A joke indeed.
Yep, that looks like a rational adult trying to explain to hysterical children what a joke is.
I'm sure every Villa fan out there were pissing themselves laughing when he said it right after the 3-0 stuffing. A joke indeed.
As aj2k77 says, it was a shit joke, but it was clearly just a joke - unless you actually think he was delighted to lose?
Yep, that looks like a rational adult trying to explain to hysterical children what a joke is.
I'm sure every Villa fan out there were pissing themselves laughing when he said it right after the 3-0 stuffing. A joke indeed.
As aj2k77 says, it was a shit joke, but it was clearly just a joke - unless you actually think he was delighted to lose?
Did you laugh then?
Yep, that looks like a rational adult trying to explain to hysterical children what a joke is.
I'm sure every Villa fan out there were pissing themselves laughing when he said it right after the 3-0 stuffing. A joke indeed.
You haven't said anything in reply to if Petrov did the same thing.
Yep, that looks like a rational adult trying to explain to hysterical children what a joke is.
I'm sure every Villa fan out there were pissing themselves laughing when he said it right after the 3-0 stuffing. A joke indeed.
As aj2k77 says, it was a shit joke, but it was clearly just a joke - unless you actually think he was delighted to lose?
Did you laugh then?
Did you actually read my comment?
Yep, that looks like a rational adult trying to explain to hysterical children what a joke is.
I'm sure every Villa fan out there were pissing themselves laughing when he said it right after the 3-0 stuffing. A joke indeed.
As aj2k77 says, it was a shit joke, but it was clearly just a joke - unless you actually think he was delighted to lose?
Did you laugh then?
Did you actually read my comment?
But I didn't claim he was delighted to lose. Read my comments.
Exactly as I see it.Yep, that looks like a rational adult trying to explain to hysterical children what a joke is.
I'm sure every Villa fan out there were pissing themselves laughing when he said it right after the 3-0 stuffing. A joke indeed.
You haven't said anything in reply to if Petrov did the same thing.
But he didn't, but if for example he was in charge of a Villa team who got stuffed 3-0 at Celtic then spent the evening waving at the home fans, touching iconic Celtic signs and claiming if he was to get stuffed by anyone he'd rather it be Celtic I'd criticise him as much as I've criticised Houllier.
He didn't though.
Everybody in your world Silhill is a conspirator. Everything is so black and baleful. The Houllier at Anfield incident was an hour in 150 years of Villa history not some bloody vengeful apocalypse.Not really Brian , we were discussing GED and his brief time at the club. Over time I think some see him now as some shining beacon in 5 or 6 declining, wasteland seasons. The anfield night yes was one evening. The comments were ill judged, but it kind of somew him up for me , he never really came across as fully engaged in the job. Someone on here described him as a distant consultant which was quite apt. The results were not great either and GMAC salvaged our league position ultimately not GED. He wasn't of good health and that is somewhat mitigating but I don't see him as this visionary guru some are now portraying him as.
When you're in a bad run, it's freezing cold and you are getting a spanking, the last thing you want to hear is the manager making stupid comments like those and acting like his fit girlfriend from when he was 18 just walked in the room and winked at him. Defend him all you like but it was a bit insulting and pretty stupid. If it was a joke, it was a shit joke.
Everybody in your world Silhill is a conspirator. Everything is so black and baleful. The Houllier at Anfield incident was an hour in 150 years of Villa history not some bloody vengeful apocalypse.
Everybody in your world Silhill is a conspirator. Everything is so black and baleful. The Houllier at Anfield incident was an hour in 150 years of Villa history not some bloody vengeful apocalypse.Not really Brian , we were discussing GED and his brief time at the club. Over time I think some see him now as some shining beacon in 5 or 6 declining, wasteland seasons. The anfield night yes was one evening. The comments were ill judged, but it kind of somew him up for me , he never really came across as fully engaged in the job. Someone on here described him as a distant consultant which was quite apt. The results were not great either and GMAC salvaged our league position ultimately not GED. He wasn't of good health and that is somewhat mitigating but I don't see him as this visionary guru some are now portraying him as.
I was much more offended by Houllier's surrender at the Etihad than anything he did at Anfield.Is the correct answer.
Correct. A disgrace to the club's name. We should never give up on a major cup competition. We were actually on a decent run before that, too! That soon stopped.
Everybody in your world Silhill is a conspirator. Everything is so black and baleful. The Houllier at Anfield incident was an hour in 150 years of Villa history not some bloody vengeful apocalypse.Not really Brian , we were discussing GED and his brief time at the club. Over time I think some see him now as some shining beacon in 5 or 6 declining, wasteland seasons. The anfield night yes was one evening. The comments were ill judged, but it kind of somew him up for me , he never really came across as fully engaged in the job. Someone on here described him as a distant consultant which was quite apt. The results were not great either and GMAC salvaged our league position ultimately not GED. He wasn't of good health and that is somewhat mitigating but I don't see him as this visionary guru some are now portraying him as.
Everybody in your world Silhill is a conspirator. Everything is so black and baleful. The Houllier at Anfield incident was an hour in 150 years of Villa history not some bloody vengeful apocalypse.
You make it sound like we havent stopped discussing it since the day it happened, which just isn't true.
Correct. A disgrace to the club's name. We should never give up on a major cup competition. We were actually on a decent run before that, too! That soon stopped.
Yes, agree with that too. Silhill was spot on in what he says about the myth of Houllier.
Correct. A disgrace to the club's name. We should never give up on a major cup competition. We were actually on a decent run before that, too! That soon stopped.
Yes, agree with that too. Silhill was spot on in what he says about the myth of Houllier.
There is no myth. He was trying to bring a different ethos to the club, one which would have been far more modern and progressive, not to mention sustainable, than that his predecessor had employed. He had some limited success, some of the things he tried didn't work, but in contrast to those who came afterwards he had a clearly-defined idea he was working towards. And for reasons discussed earlier he was, and is still, given far less leeway than any other Villa manager before or since.
A good manager would have looked at the players at his disposal and tried to play to their strengths not tried to force upon them a style that was not suited to them. Dunne, Collins and Warnock had been excellent the previous season, they were awful under Houllier. He basically almost relegated a team that had finished top 6 for 3 years running despite also adding an excellent striker to the group half way through the season. He had a far better squad than the 3 managers that followed him. I'll never forget the Wigan home match when we conceded a corner without a Wigan player getting near the ball, passing nervously for the sake of it until Dunne overhit a back pass. I could understand Houllier trying to implement a different style after a major squad overhaul when he's brought in players more suited to his style, but trying to impose it on a good top 6 side who excelled with an alternative style of football was crazy imo.
Correct. A disgrace to the club's name. We should never give up on a major cup competition. We were actually on a decent run before that, too! That soon stopped.
Yes, agree with that too. Silhill was spot on in what he says about the myth of Houllier.
There is no myth. He was trying to bring a different ethos to the club, one which would have been far more modern and progressive, not to mention sustainable, than that his predecessor had employed. He had some limited success, some of the things he tried didn't work, but in contrast to those who came afterwards he had a clearly-defined idea he was working towards. And for reasons discussed earlier he was, and is still, given far less leeway than any other Villa manager before or since.
A good manager would have looked at the players at his disposal and tried to play to their strengths not tried to force upon them a style that was not suited to them. Dunne, Collins and Warnock had been excellent the previous season, they were awful under Houllier. He basically almost relegated a team that had finished top 6 for 3 years running despite also adding an excellent striker to the group half way through the season. He had a far better squad than the 3 managers that followed him. I'll never forget the Wigan home match when we conceded a corner without a Wigan player getting near the ball, passing nervously for the sake of it until Dunne overhit a back pass. I could understand Houllier trying to implement a different style after a major squad overhaul when he's brought in players more suited to his style, but trying to impose it on a good top 6 side who excelled with an alternative style of football was crazy imo.
Houllier is one of the few managers we've had in my time where you actually felt they had a long term idea of what they wanted for the club. Far too often it's been way too short sighted.What evidence do you have to back that up ? This is the guy who signed Bradley & Pires and ground out consistently poor results and performances .
Agree. He was a terrible manager with a good, no very good squad. GMAC held it together ultimatelyCorrect. A disgrace to the club's name. We should never give up on a major cup competition. We were actually on a decent run before that, too! That soon stopped.
Yes, agree with that too. Silhill was spot on in what he says about the myth of Houllier.
There is no myth. He was trying to bring a different ethos to the club, one which would have been far more modern and progressive, not to mention sustainable, than that his predecessor had employed. He had some limited success, some of the things he tried didn't work, but in contrast to those who came afterwards he had a clearly-defined idea he was working towards. And for reasons discussed earlier he was, and is still, given far less leeway than any other Villa manager before or since.
A good manager would have looked at the players at his disposal and tried to play to their strengths not tried to force upon them a style that was not suited to them. Dunne, Collins and Warnock had been excellent the previous season, they were awful under Houllier. He basically almost relegated a team that had finished top 6 for 3 years running despite also adding an excellent striker to the group half way through the season. He had a far better squad than the 3 managers that followed him. I'll never forget the Wigan home match when we conceded a corner without a Wigan player getting near the ball, passing nervously for the sake of it until Dunne overhit a back pass. I could understand Houllier trying to implement a different style after a major squad overhaul when he's brought in players more suited to his style, but trying to impose it on a good top 6 side who excelled with an alternative style of football was crazy imo.
Houllier is one of the few managers we've had in my time where you actually felt they had a long term idea of what they wanted for the club. Far too often it's been way too short sighted.What evidence do you have to back that up ? This is the guy who signed Bradley & Pires and ground out consistently poor results and performances .
Without Milner we were not a top six side.
Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.
Without Milner we were not a top six side.
Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.
Ok I'd agree that without Milner even with Bent and Walker for half a season we were not a top 6 side, but there's no way we were a side that should have been flirting with relegation. If we'd have dropped into mid table it would have been ok but to plunge as low as we did and treat the FA Cup with disdain was too much for me.
It was mismanagement on several levels. Quickly lost the dressing room. Poor results. Poor performances , poor signings - see Makoun aswell .
This "vision" ?? It wasn't a good one. Like I said before though, health wise he wasn't a well man so He needs some slack in that respect.
Without Milner we were not a top six side.
Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.
Ok I'd agree that without Milner even with Bent and Walker for half a season we were not a top 6 side, but there's no way we were a side that should have been flirting with relegation. If we'd have dropped into mid table it would have been ok but to plunge as low as we did and treat the FA Cup with disdain was too much for me.
It was mismanagement on several levels. Quickly lost the dressing room. Poor results. Poor performances , poor signings - see Makoun aswell .
This "vision" ?? It wasn't a good one. Like I said before though, health wise he wasn't a well man so He needs some slack in that respect.
It was mismanagement on several levels. Quickly lost the dressing room. Poor results. Poor performances , poor signings - see Makoun aswell .
This "vision" ?? It wasn't a good one. Like I said before though, health wise he wasn't a well man so He needs some slack in that respect.
Is that the same Makoun loads on here were raving about?
I still want to know how Bradley was a bad loan signing after he had held his own in the Dutch, German and Italian divisions. Or what we should have done instead of signing Pires as we were already reduced to using Hogg, Herd etc because of injuries.
Mostly the bit where we kept losing and weren't playing well even with a really good squad. Add in the poor signings and his strange sound bites and distanced aloofness. Other than that I can't fault the guy.It was mismanagement on several levels. Quickly lost the dressing room. Poor results. Poor performances , poor signings - see Makoun aswell .
This "vision" ?? It wasn't a good one. Like I said before though, health wise he wasn't a well man so He needs some slack in that respect.
What part of his 'vision' didn't you like?
Mostly the bit where we kept losing and weren't playing well even with a really good squad. Add in the poor signings and his strange sound bites and distanced aloofness. Other than that I can't fault the guy.It was mismanagement on several levels. Quickly lost the dressing room. Poor results. Poor performances , poor signings - see Makoun aswell .
This "vision" ?? It wasn't a good one. Like I said before though, health wise he wasn't a well man so He needs some slack in that respect.
What part of his 'vision' didn't you like?
iimc he cost us a fkn fortuneIt was mismanagement on several levels. Quickly lost the dressing room. Poor results. Poor performances , poor signings - see Makoun aswell .
This "vision" ?? It wasn't a good one. Like I said before though, health wise he wasn't a well man so He needs some slack in that respect.
Is that the same Makoun loads on here were raving about?
I still want to know how Bradley was a bad loan signing after he had held his own in the Dutch, German and Italian divisions. Or what we should have done instead of signing Pires as we were already reduced to using Hogg, Herd etc because of injuries.
Without Milner we were not a top six side.
Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.
Ok I'd agree that without Milner even with Bent and Walker for half a season we were not a top 6 side, but there's no way we were a side that should have been flirting with relegation. If we'd have dropped into mid table it would have been ok but to plunge as low as we did and treat the FA Cup with disdain was too much for me.
We were that low because we lost our entire coaching staff days before the season started, took over a month to replace them and then had the worst injury list in living memory. Despite that we finished in the top half, and before anyone says it was a false position, nobody ever says the same about 2002-03, when three more goals would have seen us finish eighth instead of sixteenth.
Without Milner we were not a top six side.
Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.
Ok I'd agree that without Milner even with Bent and Walker for half a season we were not a top 6 side, but there's no way we were a side that should have been flirting with relegation. If we'd have dropped into mid table it would have been ok but to plunge as low as we did and treat the FA Cup with disdain was too much for me.
We were that low because we lost our entire coaching staff days before the season started, took over a month to replace them and then had the worst injury list in living memory. Despite that we finished in the top half, and before anyone says it was a false position, nobody ever says the same about 2002-03, when three more goals would have seen us finish eighth instead of sixteenth.
We finished top half because under Gary Mac we beat Liverpool and Arsenal in our last 2 games, can't give Houllier credit for that, otherwise we'd have finished around 15/16th and there's no way McLeish would have had us that low the following season if he'd still got Young and Downing in the team.
You forget to mention, when GED went off ill we were what 16/17th ? Then GMac came in and we went on a decent run and ended up 9th with players performing better, shape , structure and momentum to the performances with wins against some of the better sides.Without Milner we were not a top six side.
Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.
Ok I'd agree that without Milner even with Bent and Walker for half a season we were not a top 6 side, but there's no way we were a side that should have been flirting with relegation. If we'd have dropped into mid table it would have been ok but to plunge as low as we did and treat the FA Cup with disdain was too much for me.
We were that low because we lost our entire coaching staff days before the season started, took over a month to replace them and then had the worst injury list in living memory. Despite that we finished in the top half, and before anyone says it was a false position, nobody ever says the same about 2002-03, when three more goals would have seen us finish eighth instead of sixteenth.
You forget to mention, when GED went off ill we were what 16/17th ? Then GMac came in and we went on a decent run and ended up 9th with players performing better, shape , structure and momentum to the performances with wins against some of the better sides.Without Milner we were not a top six side.
Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.
Ok I'd agree that without Milner even with Bent and Walker for half a season we were not a top 6 side, but there's no way we were a side that should have been flirting with relegation. If we'd have dropped into mid table it would have been ok but to plunge as low as we did and treat the FA Cup with disdain was too much for me.
We were that low because we lost our entire coaching staff days before the season started, took over a month to replace them and then had the worst injury list in living memory. Despite that we finished in the top half, and before anyone says it was a false position, nobody ever says the same about 2002-03, when three more goals would have seen us finish eighth instead of sixteenth.
It was mismanagement on several levels. Quickly lost the dressing room. Poor results. Poor performances , poor signings - see Makoun aswell .
This "vision" ?? It wasn't a good one. Like I said before though, health wise he wasn't a well man so He needs some slack in that respect.
Is that the same Makoun loads on here were raving about?
I still want to know how Bradley was a bad loan signing after he had held his own in the Dutch, German and Italian top divisions. Or what we should have done instead of signing Pires as we were already reduced to using Hogg, Herd etc because of injuries.
They were both really poor for us.It was mismanagement on several levels. Quickly lost the dressing room. Poor results. Poor performances , poor signings - see Makoun aswell .
This "vision" ?? It wasn't a good one. Like I said before though, health wise he wasn't a well man so He needs some slack in that respect.
Is that the same Makoun loads on here were raving about?
I still want to know how Bradley was a bad loan signing after he had held his own in the Dutch, German and Italian top divisions. Or what we should have done instead of signing Pires as we were already reduced to using Hogg, Herd etc because of injuries.
Still want to know!
And who "raved" about Makoun lol ??
He came in wore a Pringle at his presser, and that was about it, talk about a fish out of water on the pitch . Where did he end up and for how much ? What was he £5m in sold for £1m ?? Inside a year. Brilliant . In fact "visionary"
Agree. He was a terrible manager with a good, no very good squad. GMAC held it together ultimatelyHe was also the manager that had to contend with, up to that point at least, an almost unprecedented injury list. He was such a terrible manager that he managed to coax 75 minutes of Bannan and Hogg running rings around Man Utd until they ran out of steam.
And who "raved" about Makoun lol ??
He came in wore a Pringle at his presser, and that was about it, talk about a fish out of water on the pitch . Where did he end up and for how much ? What was he £5m in sold for £1m ?? Inside a year. Brilliant . In fact "visionary"
I don't expect you'd remember, you were banned at the time.
One way he 'lost the dressing room' was by asking them to stop drinking so much and do a bit more jogging.
Talk me through this one , Makoun signed For £6.2m , loaned out within a year for 2 years and ended up leaving for nothing , that's £0 .And who "raved" about Makoun lol ??
He came in wore a Pringle at his presser, and that was about it, talk about a fish out of water on the pitch . Where did he end up and for how much ? What was he £5m in sold for £1m ?? Inside a year. Brilliant . In fact "visionary"
I don't expect you'd remember, you were banned at the time.
Without Milner we were not a top six side.
Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.
Ok I'd agree that without Milner even with Bent and Walker for half a season we were not a top 6 side, but there's no way we were a side that should have been flirting with relegation. If we'd have dropped into mid table it would have been ok but to plunge as low as we did and treat the FA Cup with disdain was too much for me.
We were that low because we lost our entire coaching staff days before the season started, took over a month to replace them and then had the worst injury list in living memory. Despite that we finished in the top half, and before anyone says it was a false position, nobody ever says the same about 2002-03, when three more goals would have seen us finish eighth instead of sixteenth.
We finished top half because under Gary Mac we beat Liverpool and Arsenal in our last 2 games, can't give Houllier credit for that, otherwise we'd have finished around 15/16th and there's no way McLeish would have had us that low the following season if he'd still got Young and Downing in the team.
We finished ninth because eleven clubs had a worse record than us, under three managers.
Talk me through this one , Makoun signed For £6.2m , loaned out within a year for 2 years and ended up leaving for nothing , that's £0 .And who "raved" about Makoun lol ??
He came in wore a Pringle at his presser, and that was about it, talk about a fish out of water on the pitch . Where did he end up and for how much ? What was he £5m in sold for £1m ?? Inside a year. Brilliant . In fact "visionary"
I don't expect you'd remember, you were banned at the time.
If that's GED's "vision" then it's sublime .
Talk me through this one , Makoun signed For £6.2m , loaned out within a year for 2 years and ended up leaving for nothing , that's £0 .And who "raved" about Makoun lol ??
He came in wore a Pringle at his presser, and that was about it, talk about a fish out of water on the pitch . Where did he end up and for how much ? What was he £5m in sold for £1m ?? Inside a year. Brilliant . In fact "visionary"
I don't expect you'd remember, you were banned at the time.
If that's GED's "vision" then it's sublime .
Lol. The generic "get out of jail" response.Talk me through this one , Makoun signed For £6.2m , loaned out within a year for 2 years and ended up leaving for nothing , that's £0 .And who "raved" about Makoun lol ??
He came in wore a Pringle at his presser, and that was about it, talk about a fish out of water on the pitch . Where did he end up and for how much ? What was he £5m in sold for £1m ?? Inside a year. Brilliant . In fact "visionary"
I don't expect you'd remember, you were banned at the time.
If that's GED's "vision" then it's sublime .
So was Reo-Coker and countless others. It happens.
Lol. The generic "get out of jail" response.Talk me through this one , Makoun signed For £6.2m , loaned out within a year for 2 years and ended up leaving for nothing , that's £0 .And who "raved" about Makoun lol ??
He came in wore a Pringle at his presser, and that was about it, talk about a fish out of water on the pitch . Where did he end up and for how much ? What was he £5m in sold for £1m ?? Inside a year. Brilliant . In fact "visionary"
I don't expect you'd remember, you were banned at the time.
If that's GED's "vision" then it's sublime .
So was Reo-Coker and countless others. It happens.
You scoundrel you .
Without Milner we were not a top six side.
Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.
Ok I'd agree that without Milner even with Bent and Walker for half a season we were not a top 6 side, but there's no way we were a side that should have been flirting with relegation. If we'd have dropped into mid table it would have been ok but to plunge as low as we did and treat the FA Cup with disdain was too much for me.
We were that low because we lost our entire coaching staff days before the season started, took over a month to replace them and then had the worst injury list in living memory. Despite that we finished in the top half, and before anyone says it was a false position, nobody ever says the same about 2002-03, when three more goals would have seen us finish eighth instead of sixteenth.
We finished top half because under Gary Mac we beat Liverpool and Arsenal in our last 2 games, can't give Houllier credit for that, otherwise we'd have finished around 15/16th and there's no way McLeish would have had us that low the following season if he'd still got Young and Downing in the team.
We finished ninth because eleven clubs had a worse record than us, under three managers.
True and arguably the 3 most accomplished wins came when Houllier was not in charge, I dread to think where we'd have finished without those 9 precious points.
Signings don't work out for a number of reasons. It happens, and using hindsight means none of us would ever make a mistake. Doesn't make the thinking behind the signing wrong. As I said, Makoun was getting a lot of praise on here.So he wasn't "rave" ;)
Signings don't work out for a number of reasons. It happens, and using hindsight means none of us would ever make a mistake. Doesn't make the thinking behind the signing wrong. As I said, Makoun was getting a lot of praise on here.So he wasn't "rave" ;)
One way he 'lost the dressing room' was by asking them to stop drinking so much and do a bit more jogging.
And asked the defenders to run up and down a bit instead of stopping on the edge of the box to watch Petrov run around doing three peoples jobs.
Without Milner we were not a top six side.
Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.
Ok I'd agree that without Milner even with Bent and Walker for half a season we were not a top 6 side, but there's no way we were a side that should have been flirting with relegation. If we'd have dropped into mid table it would have been ok but to plunge as low as we did and treat the FA Cup with disdain was too much for me.
We were that low because we lost our entire coaching staff days before the season started, took over a month to replace them and then had the worst injury list in living memory. Despite that we finished in the top half, and before anyone says it was a false position, nobody ever says the same about 2002-03, when three more goals would have seen us finish eighth instead of sixteenth.
We finished top half because under Gary Mac we beat Liverpool and Arsenal in our last 2 games, can't give Houllier credit for that, otherwise we'd have finished around 15/16th and there's no way McLeish would have had us that low the following season if he'd still got Young and Downing in the team.
We finished ninth because eleven clubs had a worse record than us, under three managers.
True and arguably the 3 most accomplished wins came when Houllier was not in charge, I dread to think where we'd have finished without those 9 precious points.
Same place as we would without nine of the points he got us but this really is going round in circles. I think one of the reasons we improved was that both men went back to basics and shelved the long-term goal in favour of short-term results.
For the record GED had fucked off for the day when it started to get a bit tasty. It was Cowans With Gabby in support taking on the others. Allegedly your honour.One way he 'lost the dressing room' was by asking them to stop drinking so much and do a bit more jogging.
And asked the defenders to run up and down a bit instead of stopping on the edge of the box to watch Petrov run around doing three peoples jobs.
On this and on Sam's point about the drinking culture, I was reading The Secret Footballer's interview with Houllier about his upcoming book, and one of the things he discusses is how he had to sort out the Liverpool players' boozing and carousing when he went there. To come to Villa, ten years after all that, and be confronted by Dullins ruining a spa weekend by attacking a club legend must have been exasperating beyond belief.
One way he 'lost the dressing room' was by asking them to stop drinking so much and do a bit more jogging.
And asked the defenders to run up and down a bit instead of stopping on the edge of the box to watch Petrov run around doing three peoples jobs.
On this and on Sam's point about the drinking culture, I was reading The Secret Footballer's interview with Houllier about his upcoming book, and one of the things he discusses is how he had to sort out the Liverpool players' boozing and carousing when he went there. To come to Villa, ten years after all that, and be confronted by Dullins ruining a spa weekend by attacking a club legend must have been exasperating beyond belief.
Of which I think we had 9 first team players out at the same time at one point, and the kind of injury list that saw Middlesbrough docked points for failing to fulfil fixtures a few years ago.Mostly the bit where we kept losing and weren't playing well even with a really good squad. Add in the poor signings and his strange sound bites and distanced aloofness. Other than that I can't fault the guy.It was mismanagement on several levels. Quickly lost the dressing room. Poor results. Poor performances , poor signings - see Makoun aswell .
This "vision" ?? It wasn't a good one. Like I said before though, health wise he wasn't a well man so He needs some slack in that respect.
What part of his 'vision' didn't you like?
You've conveniently dodged all the points I raised and are now resorting to personal insults ?!!speak English ? Brilliant, really awesome level of debate. ;DSignings don't work out for a number of reasons. It happens, and using hindsight means none of us would ever make a mistake. Doesn't make the thinking behind the signing wrong. As I said, Makoun was getting a lot of praise on here.So he wasn't "rave" ;)
At least try and speak English. Some praised him, some raved about him. It really isn't difficult. But as usual you stick to avoiding the points raised that you can't answer, or don't like the answer to.
One way he 'lost the dressing room' was by asking them to stop drinking so much and do a bit more jogging.
And asked the defenders to run up and down a bit instead of stopping on the edge of the box to watch Petrov run around doing three peoples jobs.
On this and on Sam's point about the drinking culture, I was reading The Secret Footballer's interview with Houllier about his upcoming book, and one of the things he discusses is how he had to sort out the Liverpool players' boozing and carousing when he went there. To come to Villa, ten years after all that, and be confronted by Dullins ruining a spa weekend by attacking a club legend must have been exasperating beyond belief.
When my Liveprool counterpart Steve Kelly wrote for us about Houllier he made reference to how he'd been unpopular at first for sorting out the Spice Boys culture up there.
You've conveniently dodged all the points I raised and are now resorting to personal insults ?!!speak English ? Brilliant, really awesome level of debate. ;DSignings don't work out for a number of reasons. It happens, and using hindsight means none of us would ever make a mistake. Doesn't make the thinking behind the signing wrong. As I said, Makoun was getting a lot of praise on here.So he wasn't "rave" ;)
At least try and speak English. Some praised him, some raved about him. It really isn't difficult. But as usual you stick to avoiding the points raised that you can't answer, or don't like the answer to.
For the record GED had fucked off for the day when it started to get a bit tasty. It was Cowans With Gabby in support taking on the others. Allegedly your honour.One way he 'lost the dressing room' was by asking them to stop drinking so much and do a bit more jogging.
And asked the defenders to run up and down a bit instead of stopping on the edge of the box to watch Petrov run around doing three peoples jobs.
On this and on Sam's point about the drinking culture, I was reading The Secret Footballer's interview with Houllier about his upcoming book, and one of the things he discusses is how he had to sort out the Liverpool players' boozing and carousing when he went there. To come to Villa, ten years after all that, and be confronted by Dullins ruining a spa weekend by attacking a club legend must have been exasperating beyond belief.
You've conveniently dodged all the points I raised
Thanks , and that's where we will leave the GED chapter of visionary brilliance .Everybody in your world Silhill is a conspirator. Everything is so black and baleful. The Houllier at Anfield incident was an hour in 150 years of Villa history not some bloody vengeful apocalypse.Not really Brian , we were discussing GED and his brief time at the club. Over time I think some see him now as some shining beacon in 5 or 6 declining, wasteland seasons. The anfield night yes was one evening. The comments were ill judged, but it kind of somew him up for me , he never really came across as fully engaged in the job. Someone on here described him as a distant consultant which was quite apt. The results were not great either and GMAC salvaged our league position ultimately not GED. He wasn't of good health and that is somewhat mitigating but I don't see him as this visionary guru some are now portraying him as.
Very well put, I think you are spot on.
Talk me through this one , Makoun signed For £6.2m , loaned out within a year for 2 years and ended up leaving for nothing , that's £0 .And who "raved" about Makoun lol ??
He came in wore a Pringle at his presser, and that was about it, talk about a fish out of water on the pitch . Where did he end up and for how much ? What was he £5m in sold for £1m ?? Inside a year. Brilliant . In fact "visionary"
I don't expect you'd remember, you were banned at the time.
If that's GED's "vision" then it's sublime .
"...and when we got home, Gerard Houllier would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing You'll Never Walk Alone."
Weird how Gary McAllister, who we all now acknowledge to be the real mastermind behind the 9th place finish that season, hasn't been mentioned as a potential successor.
Thanks , and that's where we will leave the GED chapter of visionary brilliance .Everybody in your world Silhill is a conspirator. Everything is so black and baleful. The Houllier at Anfield incident was an hour in 150 years of Villa history not some bloody vengeful apocalypse.Not really Brian , we were discussing GED and his brief time at the club. Over time I think some see him now as some shining beacon in 5 or 6 declining, wasteland seasons. The anfield night yes was one evening. The comments were ill judged, but it kind of somew him up for me , he never really came across as fully engaged in the job. Someone on here described him as a distant consultant which was quite apt. The results were not great either and GMAC salvaged our league position ultimately not GED. He wasn't of good health and that is somewhat mitigating but I don't see him as this visionary guru some are now portraying him as.
Very well put, I think you are spot on.
You've conveniently dodged all the points I raised
*wide-eyed in amazement*
"...and when we got home, Gerard Houllier would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing You'll Never Walk Alone."
Weird how Gary McAllister, who we all now acknowledge to be the real mastermind behind the 9th place finish that season, hasn't been mentioned as a potential successor.
Which in turn reminds me of the most hysterical thread in even our long history. http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43016.0
cue uncontrolled hysteria from some that the walls of Villa are crumbling around us. Honestly, is this really a big deal?
Quite reassuring to see I was in between bans at the time . #nostalgia"...and when we got home, Gerard Houllier would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing You'll Never Walk Alone."
Weird how Gary McAllister, who we all now acknowledge to be the real mastermind behind the 9th place finish that season, hasn't been mentioned as a potential successor.
Which in turn reminds me of the most hysterical thread in even our long history. http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43016.0
You've conveniently dodged all the points I raised and are now resorting to personal insults ?!!speak English ? Brilliant, really awesome level of debate. ;DSignings don't work out for a number of reasons. It happens, and using hindsight means none of us would ever make a mistake. Doesn't make the thinking behind the signing wrong. As I said, Makoun was getting a lot of praise on here.So he wasn't "rave" ;)
At least try and speak English. Some praised him, some raved about him. It really isn't difficult. But as usual you stick to avoiding the points raised that you can't answer, or don't like the answer to.
Finally something to agree on.Quite reassuring to see I was in between bans at the time . #nostalgia"...and when we got home, Gerard Houllier would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing You'll Never Walk Alone."
Weird how Gary McAllister, who we all now acknowledge to be the real mastermind behind the 9th place finish that season, hasn't been mentioned as a potential successor.
Which in turn reminds me of the most hysterical thread in even our long history. http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43016.0
Quite reassuring to see I was in between bans at the time . #nostalgia"...and when we got home, Gerard Houllier would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing You'll Never Walk Alone."
Weird how Gary McAllister, who we all now acknowledge to be the real mastermind behind the 9th place finish that season, hasn't been mentioned as a potential successor.
Which in turn reminds me of the most hysterical thread in even our long history. http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43016.0
Quite reassuring to see I was in between bans at the time . #nostalgia"...and when we got home, Gerard Houllier would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing You'll Never Walk Alone."
Weird how Gary McAllister, who we all now acknowledge to be the real mastermind behind the 9th place finish that season, hasn't been mentioned as a potential successor.
Which in turn reminds me of the most hysterical thread in even our long history. http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43016.0
Could it be someone who's got a different user name today, but still has villa as the last part of a one word name?Quite reassuring to see I was in between bans at the time . #nostalgia"...and when we got home, Gerard Houllier would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing You'll Never Walk Alone."
Weird how Gary McAllister, who we all now acknowledge to be the real mastermind behind the 9th place finish that season, hasn't been mentioned as a potential successor.
Which in turn reminds me of the most hysterical thread in even our long history. http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43016.0
And the biggest drama queen on the entire thread was wikivilla. Now who might that have been?
Without resurrection of a thread from 4 years ago, I stand by my Glenn Roeder comments 100%. It kind of summed GED up .Quite reassuring to see I was in between bans at the time . #nostalgia"...and when we got home, Gerard Houllier would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing You'll Never Walk Alone."
Weird how Gary McAllister, who we all now acknowledge to be the real mastermind behind the 9th place finish that season, hasn't been mentioned as a potential successor.
Which in turn reminds me of the most hysterical thread in even our long history. http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43016.0
And the biggest drama queen on the entire thread was wikivilla. Now who might that have been?
Without resurrection of a thread from 4 years ago, I stand by my Glenn Roeder comments 100%. It kind of summed GED up .Quite reassuring to see I was in between bans at the time . #nostalgia"...and when we got home, Gerard Houllier would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing You'll Never Walk Alone."
Weird how Gary McAllister, who we all now acknowledge to be the real mastermind behind the 9th place finish that season, hasn't been mentioned as a potential successor.
Which in turn reminds me of the most hysterical thread in even our long history. http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43016.0
And the biggest drama queen on the entire thread was wikivilla. Now who might that have been?
It didn't end well did it . And I wasn't alone. You probably banned the others and they didn't return . Do you model yourself on Putin lol ;)Without resurrection of a thread from 4 years ago, I stand by my Glenn Roeder comments 100%. It kind of summed GED up .Quite reassuring to see I was in between bans at the time . #nostalgia"...and when we got home, Gerard Houllier would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing You'll Never Walk Alone."
Weird how Gary McAllister, who we all now acknowledge to be the real mastermind behind the 9th place finish that season, hasn't been mentioned as a potential successor.
Which in turn reminds me of the most hysterical thread in even our long history. http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43016.0
And the biggest drama queen on the entire thread was wikivilla. Now who might that have been?
It certainly sums up the fact that only you could wet your knickers about an experienced coach doing some scouting of future opponents.
It didn't end well did it . And I wasn't alone. You probably banned the others and they didn't return . Do you model yourself on Putin lol ;)Without resurrection of a thread from 4 years ago, I stand by my Glenn Roeder comments 100%. It kind of summed GED up .Quite reassuring to see I was in between bans at the time . #nostalgia"...and when we got home, Gerard Houllier would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing You'll Never Walk Alone."
Weird how Gary McAllister, who we all now acknowledge to be the real mastermind behind the 9th place finish that season, hasn't been mentioned as a potential successor.
Which in turn reminds me of the most hysterical thread in even our long history. http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43016.0
And the biggest drama queen on the entire thread was wikivilla. Now who might that have been?
It certainly sums up the fact that only you could wet your knickers about an experienced coach doing some scouting of future opponents.
generic response again. What I've found is when you are clearly wring, you aren't big enough to admit it.
Another personal attack. Amazing .generic response again. What I've found is when you are clearly wring, you aren't big enough to admit it.
What I've found is that you're a troll and not a very good one.
Another personal attack. Amazing .generic response again. What I've found is when you are clearly wring, you aren't big enough to admit it.
What I've found is that you're a troll and not a very good one.
Thanks .Correct. A disgrace to the club's name. We should never give up on a major cup competition. We were actually on a decent run before that, too! That soon stopped.
Yes, agree with that too. Silhill was spot on in what he says about the myth of Houllier.
This is only going to end one way...Do you get the impression he's kind of hoping so?
Thanks .Correct. A disgrace to the club's name. We should never give up on a major cup competition. We were actually on a decent run before that, too! That soon stopped.
Yes, agree with that too. Silhill was spot on in what he says about the myth of Houllier.
RIP sillhillvilla, CoopersInjury and wikivilla.
Please don't ever regenerate.
Thanks .Correct. A disgrace to the club's name. We should never give up on a major cup competition. We were actually on a decent run before that, too! That soon stopped.
Yes, agree with that too. Silhill was spot on in what he says about the myth of Houllier.
What I've found is when you are clearly wrong you aren't big enough to admit it.
What I've found is when you are clearly wrong you aren't big enough to admit it.
His epitaph.
Can we move on from this now please.
Can we move on from this now please.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12108174_1175523055808584_1935284000509196530_n.jpg?oh=6ab06ca1d044f7577bcfd3a4bb2134e7&oe=56CBF551)
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12108174_1175523055808584_1935284000509196530_n.jpg?oh=6ab06ca1d044f7577bcfd3a4bb2134e7&oe=56CBF551)I'm glad Lerner's having fun because I'm not.
I'm glad Lerner's having fun because I'm not.
'Rene has told me that he's confident that this soccer side will soon be where it rightly belongs and has assured me that there is every chance that we'll all be back at the Wembley Stadium soon.
Some of you might have been here when Peter Lambert set all kinds of records. Well I have hired Remy because people I have spoken to tell me that those records will soon be broken'.
http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/arsenal/champions-league/feature/in-off-the-post-the-sam-matterface-column_255573.html#$$nxgjri&&rsNLwIV+EeWpaRKp/GPoWQ$$
'Rene has told me that he's confident that this soccer side will soon be where it rightly belongs and has assured me that there is every chance that we'll all be back at the Wembley Stadium soon.
Some of you might have been here when Peter Lambert set all kinds of records. Well I have hired Remy because people I have spoken to tell me that those records will soon be broken'.
http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/arsenal/champions-league/feature/in-off-the-post-the-sam-matterface-column_255573.html#$$nxgjri&&rsNLwIV+EeWpaRKp/GPoWQ$$
I looked it up as part of another debate.'Rene has told me that he's confident that this soccer side will soon be where it rightly belongs and has assured me that there is every chance that we'll all be back at the Wembley Stadium soon.
Some of you might have been here when Peter Lambert set all kinds of records. Well I have hired Remy because people I have spoken to tell me that those records will soon be broken'.
http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/arsenal/champions-league/feature/in-off-the-post-the-sam-matterface-column_255573.html#$$nxgjri&&rsNLwIV+EeWpaRKp/GPoWQ$$
I wonder what Southampton's net spend has been like the last few years. If your recruitment methodology is good enough, it should be possible for a side without immediate Champions League ambitions to sell it's best players and at the very least, tread water. If your recruitment is good enough.
Remember when we were all singing this?
UK Redsox was not singing it, I'll be bound. And neither was my German Shepherd dog Frabbo, who is Villa through and through but cannot carry a tune.
UK Redsox was not singing it, I'll be bound. And neither was my German Shepherd dog Frabbo, who is Villa through and through but cannot carry a tune.
RedSox plays the CD every away trip!
Remember when we were all singing this?
It's a right battle getting him away from the half and half scarf sellers.
Surely Randy would have had final say in terms of approving the money, rather than approving the individual players?
Surely Randy would have had final say in terms of approving the money, rather than approving the individual players?
According to Tim, Randy had final say over the summer transfers. I say thank fuck because it means we didn't end up with a bunch of MON style overpriced English guff. Assume Randy would have told Tim that he's seen that movie and it has a shit ending.
According to Tim, Randy had final say over the summer transfers. I say thank fuck because it means we didn't end up with a bunch of MON style overpriced English guff. Assume Randy would have told Tim that he's seen that movie and it has a shit ending.
Is there a link to the article/interview where TS says this?
Speaking for the first time since his dismissal, he revealed on Dubai-based TV station BeIN Sports: “There was a committee, which I was part of — so I had a say in the players I wanted to bring into the football club.
“We ended up signing 12 players, although there was a lot more players given to the committee than 12, and we ended up with what we ended up with.
“I believe that those players in time will be good players for the football club, but when you bring in a lot of players from other countries that have not played and experienced the Premier League before, the competitive nature of it, it is going to take time.
“I certainly had a say, but the final say? It was more of a combined collective decision and ultimately the man who puts his hand in his pocket is the one who has to make that decision.
“Randy Lerner has spent an awful lot of his money at that football club for a long, long period of time.”
Here you go;
http://www.football365.com/news/sherwood-explains-how-transfer-committee-works (http://www.football365.com/news/sherwood-explains-how-transfer-committee-works)
He does say as well that he (sherwood) was part of the committee and that he's sure the new players will come good.
So he's pretty much covered his bases there, then.
Just seen a picture of Lerner giving a team talk at BH this week. Mercifully he did not have a track suit on or it would have been like a scene from Foxcatcher.
Did he watch the game today at Villa Park as he arrived in UK this week.Talksport said Lerner was at Villa Park today.
With comments like those from Sherwood, he was never likely to work out. There should have been alarm bells ringing from the rest of the 'committee' and Sherwood should have been gone sooner. Garde should have been in place in time for the Chelsea and Swansea games. Who knows, we might have been 6 points better off.
The Fans of Aston Villa would like to thank Mr Lerner for his Ownership of AVFC.
The Fans would like to thank him for his efforts and wish him all the best in his future ventures.
We'll be lucky to find a better guy with similar money to burn.
I've still got time for Randy. Think he's always wanted the best for us.
We'll be lucky to find a better guy with similar money to burn.
I've still got time for Randy. Think he's always wanted the best for us.
We'll be lucky to find a better guy with similar money to burn.
I've still got time for Randy. Think he's always wanted the best for us.
We'll be lucky to find a better guy with similar money to burn.
I've still got time for Randy. Think he's always wanted the best for us.
Yeah, bless him. Our 5 year decline has just been bad luck. What a guy!
Whatever happened to that Chairman he said he was going to appoint? Too much effort?
Yeah remember when he gave a flying shit. Some ''custodian'' he's turned out to be. Whatever happened to that Chairman he said he was going to appoint? Too much effort?
One Randy Lerner, there's only one Randy Lerner, one Randy Lerrrrrrnerrr. Remember when we used to sing that back in the day.....
I am very reluctant to lay excessive blame on Randy but what he did was treat his financing of his asset like a Charles Dickens Christmas. We bloated in the early days, the dog was given beefsteak, the cat was given smoked salmon and champagne went down the plughole. The MON feast was followed by weeks and months of belt tightening and chopping up the furniture for firewood. A proper management structure at the club would have spread the investment longer, more wisely and avoided the brink balancing of the last five years.
He's only put a credible management structure in place 9 years after buying us.
He needs to look after his asset in January and given the scale of money to come in summer 2016, I think he will.
I am very reluctant to lay excessive blame on Randy but what he did was treat his financing of his asset like a Charles Dickens Christmas. We bloated in the early days, the dog was given beefsteak, the cat was given smoked salmon and champagne went down the plughole. The MON feast was followed by weeks and months of belt tightening and chopping up the furniture for firewood. A proper management structure at the club would have spread the investment longer, more wisely and avoided the brink balancing of the last five years.
I reckon he will only spend in January if there is a realistic chance of us staying up.
And the way it is going I can't see it.
It takes a special level of stupidity to have led what he has.
He's a c***.
altogether now:good piss take from Browns fans though
altogether now:good piss take from Browns fans though
Dear Mr Lerner
Here's what you should do: hire Tracey Emin as manager; employ KLF to burn £200m Sterling in a brazier.
Do it with style.
altogether now:good piss take from Browns fans though
Crazy how apt those lyrics are. I feel almost exactly the same as that Browns fan.
The man is a disgrace and should not be allowed out of the house, and certainly not anywhere near any sports team. And sorry, I agree, he's a c**t
The man is a disgrace and should not be allowed out of the house, and certainly not anywhere near any sports team. And sorry, I agree, he's a c**t
This. He needs to be hounded out.
Hounded out? He owns the club lock stock. You need a buyer and McGrath knows he's tried to sell. We are snookered.
I don't think he's a bad bloke, I just thinks he's utterly useless as running sporting clubs. His appointments are almost universally appalling.
Hounded out? He owns the club lock stock. You need a buyer and McGrath knows he's tried to sell. We are snookered.
I don't think he's a bad bloke, I just thinks he's utterly useless as running sporting clubs. His appointments are almost universally appalling.
Whatever he's asked for the club no one is willing to pay. Lower the price.
Lerner will get his for what he's helped served on the club and it's support, a great big hit in the wallet when he finally goes and that will hurt him the most.I guess that is the only saving grace, today has cost him over a $a hundred million.
Lerner will get his for what he's helped served on the club and it's support, a great big hit in the wallet when he finally goes and that will hurt him the most.
We just need a fresh start. Lerner has to go if we go down. There's no way he could demand 150m with championship income streams so the price would have to drop significantly.i think he would do well to get£ 50million. That is one hell of a write off.
Could be a great chance for a new consortium, take us over at our lowest ebb for decades with all the potential we'd still have and the chance to be heroes if we went up and then re-established us properly in the prem.
Lerner will get his for what he's helped served on the club and it's support, a great big hit in the wallet when he finally goes and that will hurt him the most.
If he loses hundreds of millions he'll still be a stinking rich man. The man has no shame.
We just need a fresh start. Lerner has to go if we go down. There's no way he could demand 150m with championship income streams so the price would have to drop significantly.i think he would do well to get£ 50million. That is one hell of a write off.
Could be a great chance for a new consortium, take us over at our lowest ebb for decades with all the potential we'd still have and the chance to be heroes if we went up and then re-established us properly in the prem.
Lerner will get his for what he's helped served on the club and it's support, a great big hit in the wallet when he finally goes and that will hurt him the most.
If he loses hundreds of millions he'll still be a stinking rich man. The man has no shame.
How do you work that one out? There's plenty to criticise his ownership of the Villa for, but to abuse him personally is wide of the mark.
Lerner will get his for what he's helped served on the club and it's support, a great big hit in the wallet when he finally goes and that will hurt him the most.
If he loses hundreds of millions he'll still be a stinking rich man. The man has no shame.
How do you work that one out? There's plenty to criticise his ownership of the Villa for, but to abuse him personally is wide of the mark.
The man is a disgrace and should not be allowed out of the house, and certainly not anywhere near any sports team. And sorry, I agree, he's a c**t
This. He needs to be hounded out.
How are you going to hound out a billionaire from 4,000 miles distance?
Lerner will get his for what he's helped served on the club and it's support, a great big hit in the wallet when he finally goes and that will hurt him the most.
If he loses hundreds of millions he'll still be a stinking rich man. The man has no shame.
How do you work that one out? There's plenty to criticise his ownership of the Villa for, but to abuse him personally is wide of the mark.
When he starts taking some personal responsibility perhaps people might show some respect.
I've never called him a c***. I'll never forgive him for giving up 5 years ago though.
I would feel shame for taking one of the true giants of English football and slowly but surely draining the life out of the club and relegating them. I would be embarrassed and ashamed to have presided over that. I would be embarrassed and ashamed to preside over all the unwanted records we've broken the last 5 years. He won't be though, he doesn't care. If he had any shame he wouldn't have turned up at Wembley playing at being a Chairman again.
he has far more money than sense but he could,if advised correctly, turn his investment in AVFC into profit,
provided we can stay up
oh well that aint going to happen
thanx fox
and nz gets how muchhe has far more money than sense but he could,if advised correctly, turn his investment in AVFC into profit,
provided we can stay up
oh well that aint going to happen
thanx fox
Unless we start paying the going rate for Premier League players wages we're always going to struggle. The budget is set by the chairman not Fox.
and nz gets how muchhe has far more money than sense but he could,if advised correctly, turn his investment in AVFC into profit,
provided we can stay up
oh well that aint going to happen
thanx fox
Unless we start paying the going rate for Premier League players wages we're always going to struggle. The budget is set by the chairman not Fox.
and nz gets how muchhe has far more money than sense but he could,if advised correctly, turn his investment in AVFC into profit,
provided we can stay up
oh well that aint going to happen
thanx fox
Unless we start paying the going rate for Premier League players wages we're always going to struggle. The budget is set by the chairman not Fox.
and nz gets how muchhe has far more money than sense but he could,if advised correctly, turn his investment in AVFC into profit,
provided we can stay up
oh well that aint going to happen
thanx fox
Unless we start paying the going rate for Premier League players wages we're always going to struggle. The budget is set by the chairman not Fox.
£65k a week apparantely, but it's not the going rate.
and nz gets how muchhe has far more money than sense but he could,if advised correctly, turn his investment in AVFC into profit,
provided we can stay up
oh well that aint going to happen
thanx fox
Unless we start paying the going rate for Premier League players wages we're always going to struggle. The budget is set by the chairman not Fox.
£65k a week apparantely, but it's not the going rate.
A 5 year old deal, his parting shot at giving it a go. Hiring a manager as poor as Mcleish and then amazingly he goes on to make a raft of poor, expensive signings. Who would have thought that?
and nz gets how muchhe has far more money than sense but he could,if advised correctly, turn his investment in AVFC into profit,
provided we can stay up
oh well that aint going to happen
thanx fox
Unless we start paying the going rate for Premier League players wages we're always going to struggle. The budget is set by the chairman not Fox.
£65k a week apparantely, but it's not the going rate.
Mike Ashley didn't sell Newcastle when they went down, and I bet he really wanted to. We will be stuck with Lerner unless there is a buyer, but unfortunately I think the era of rich people buying football clubs and pumping millions of pounds into them every season is over.
and nz gets how muchhe has far more money than sense but he could,if advised correctly, turn his investment in AVFC into profit,
provided we can stay up
oh well that aint going to happen
thanx fox
Unless we start paying the going rate for Premier League players wages we're always going to struggle. The budget is set by the chairman not Fox.
£65k a week apparantely, but it's not the going rate.
And Gabby he is getting the Going Rate? I know Clark is on upwards of 2m per year and Jack was on 1m+ last year. Seems like the Going Rate.
How many of Leicester players are on the Going Rate.
McLeish signed CNZ Given Hutton and Jenas on combined wages of over 10m per year. More thanthe Going Rate.
fk me rigid that's 10 grand a day ,it must be bordering illegaland nz gets how muchhe has far more money than sense but he could,if advised correctly, turn his investment in AVFC into profit,
provided we can stay up
oh well that aint going to happen
thanx fox
Unless we start paying the going rate for Premier League players wages we're always going to struggle. The budget is set by the chairman not Fox.
£65k a week apparantely, but it's not the going rate.
If Kieran Clark is on anything like £40k p/w then it sums up the mismanagement of this club.
and nz gets how muchhe has far more money than sense but he could,if advised correctly, turn his investment in AVFC into profit,
provided we can stay up
oh well that aint going to happen
thanx fox
Unless we start paying the going rate for Premier League players wages we're always going to struggle. The budget is set by the chairman not Fox.
£65k a week apparantely, but it's not the going rate.
And Gabby he is getting the Going Rate? I know Clark is on upwards of 2m per year and Jack was on 1m+ last year. Seems like the Going Rate.
How many of Leicester players are on the Going Rate.
McLeish signed CNZ Given Hutton and Jenas on combined wages of over 10m per year. More thanthe Going Rate.
I was being sarcastic.
The thing is, I think he does care, unfortunately he has no idea how to run a football club.I agree he just doesn't know what its all about
and nz gets how muchhe has far more money than sense but he could,if advised correctly, turn his investment in AVFC into profit,
provided we can stay up
oh well that aint going to happen
thanx fox
Unless we start paying the going rate for Premier League players wages we're always going to struggle. The budget is set by the chairman not Fox.
£65k a week apparantely, but it's not the going rate.
And Gabby he is getting the Going Rate? I know Clark is on upwards of 2m per year and Jack was on 1m+ last year. Seems like the Going Rate.
How many of Leicester players are on the Going Rate.
McLeish signed CNZ Given Hutton and Jenas on combined wages of over 10m per year. More thanthe Going Rate.
I was being sarcastic.
And I was supporting your point.
I think Lerner cares more than a lot of owners. It's just that he's utterly incompetent
Randy Lerner = benign idiot. Mike Ashley = malignant idiot.
The thing is, I think he does care, unfortunately he has no idea how to run a football club.He cares because he's haemorrhaging millions of dollars. I think that's as far as it goes...
The thing is, I think he does care, unfortunately he has no idea how to run a football club.He cares because he's haemorrhaging millions of dollars. I think that's as far as it goes...
Tom Fox, very polished money man. Not enough footballing nous to do what is effectively run a football club.and he will advise you know who, to sell it to who the fuck knows, for fuck all
Randy Lerner = benign idiot. Mike Ashley = malignant idiot.
That's about right.
Tom Fox, very polished money man. Not enough footballing nous to do what is effectively run a football club.
One thing for sure Lerner going to throw money at this. It's only way. Expect an interesting window.
I think Lerner cares more than a lot of owners. It's just that he's utterly incompetent
That's it.
He's thrown plenty of money at it, at least in the early years, but unfortunately, due to his own brainless, half-arsed, uncoordinated, naive approach, he has watched it all get pissed away.
Having decided he's had enough, he has then opted to retire from the club, and appointed Tom Fox, who - at least to me - is starting to look more and more like a shit eating grin in an expensive suit not backed up by anything of actual substance.
I thought Faulkner appointing McLeish was bad enough but fuck me, how can anyone - *anyone* - have thought "Yeah, I reckon not only is Tim Sherwood the man for us, it's not even worth thinking about anyone else" and bet the house on that untrustworthy gobshite?
One thing for sure Lerner going to throw money at this. It's only way. Expect an interesting window.
He won't. We'll be too far gone for major spending to occur. It'll be cost management if we are 10 points plus adrift. Maybe 10-15m tops but we need a 50m investment.
My worry is Lerners reluctance will force Garde into walking early to protect his reputation. This could actually get worse believe it or not.
One thing for sure Lerner going to throw money at this. It's only way. Expect an interesting window.
He won't. We'll be too far gone for major spending to occur. It'll be cost management if we are 10 points plus adrift. Maybe 10-15m tops but we need a 50m investment.
My worry is Lerners reluctance will force Garde into walking early to protect his reputation. This could actually get worse believe it or not.
Well what would get worse is that majority of signings would leave in summer AND for less money than paid for.
Way I see it then some big signings needed. As its the last and only chance to save the club. Investors could come in to help over this crucial period if Lerner isn't spending. Protection on premier league status is a must. If don't stay up that's down to the ownership and the running of the club.
It's like he's obsessed with the Ajax model, young hungry players with sell on value, it's clear that after 5 years it's just not working. You have to spend just to stand still and we've brought a load of untested crap. We should have sent Benteke money on 2 players but we brought a whole squad. Gana has faded. Lescott is shit. Amavi looked decent but he's out now. Gestede is championship at best. Gabby stinks the place out and don't get me started on Westwood who isn't even championship quality
I wonder how this absentee negligent c*** feels right now?He feels?
He is probably under his duvet thinking "how do I get out?."
One of Lerner's biggest crimes is allowing the revision and viewing of Deadly's reign, but in some ways I can understand it. Ellis the way and I agree whole heartedly with Dave, he with alot of malice dismantled the 82 team, made them for years feel unwelcome and at the same time lost a hell of alot of good football knowledge that could have been tapped into over the years by AV.
But and heres the But, people had a focal point to spill their anger, wave our pound signs, chant "Ellis Out" at the back of the Trinity.
He used the Villa for his own extensive ego trip and financial gain, but with Stride there at least had a person with working knowledge of the game of football that was becoming the business of football and one thing I never heard him do, although his actions spoke louder than words at times with his lack of the final penny or pound, was talk down the expectations of AVFC, he would never state that we were there to make up the numbers and that stopping in the top flight was something we should be grateful for.
That is something I will never forgive Lerner and the people he appointed in all positions, for allowing the total dismantling of any ambition held within Villa Park and to turn us the supporters into accepting nodding dogs and just awaiting the inevitable, whatever money he will lose will not even out that bile in my mouth whenever I hear his name.
One of Lerner's biggest crimes is allowing the revision and viewing of Deadly's reign, but in some ways I can understand it. Ellis the way and I agree whole heartedly with Dave, he with alot of malice dismantled the 82 team, made them for years feel unwelcome and at the same time lost a hell of alot of good football knowledge that could have been tapped into over the years by AV.
But and heres the But, people had a focal point to spill their anger, wave our pound signs, chant "Ellis Out" at the back of the Trinity.
He used the Villa for his own extensive ego trip and financial gain, but with Stride there at least had a person with working knowledge of the game of football that was becoming the business of football and one thing I never heard him do, although his actions spoke louder than words at times with his lack of the final penny or pound, was talk down the expectations of AVFC, he would never state that we were there to make up the numbers and that stopping in the top flight was something we should be grateful for.
That is something I will never forgive Lerner and the people he appointed in all positions, for allowing the total dismantling of any ambition held within Villa Park and to turn us the supporters into accepting nodding dogs and just awaiting the inevitable, whatever money he will lose will not even out that bile in my mouth whenever I hear his name.
Don't forget that a pathetic, shambolic joke of a Newcastle team came straight back up and won the vast majority of their games in the championship, and they're owned by a man who only cares about doing it on the cheap and whose popularity is on a par with a registered sex offender. There's no reason why we couldn't do the same, we're not necessarily going to be stuck there for years. Of course we will lose money but it gives us the chance to clear out some of the crap, and finally build up some confidence and momentum.
Well to be fair, Carroll was an unknown quantity then. Didn't they buy Nolan for the Championship push too? Along with our Routledge. And I think that's what will be needed for us. We'll need to purchase 3-4 players who've been round the block (but still have some legs) who can help our youngsters push us back up to the Prem.Don't forget that a pathetic, shambolic joke of a Newcastle team came straight back up and won the vast majority of their games in the championship, and they're owned by a man who only cares about doing it on the cheap and whose popularity is on a par with a registered sex offender. There's no reason why we couldn't do the same, we're not necessarily going to be stuck there for years. Of course we will lose money but it gives us the chance to clear out some of the crap, and finally build up some confidence and momentum.
That Newcastle side had a few decent players though - Carroll, Nolan, Butt, Alan Smith..... All were better in their positions than any of our current squad are. And the 2nd division, or whatever it's called, is ultra competitive now and our team would be like rabbits in headlights.
And then we just have to hope we don't end up with a chicken farmer or sports shop magnate etc.Don't forget that a pathetic, shambolic joke of a Newcastle team came straight back up and won the vast majority of their games in the championship, and they're owned by a man who only cares about doing it on the cheap and whose popularity is on a par with a registered sex offender. There's no reason why we couldn't do the same, we're not necessarily going to be stuck there for years. Of course we will lose money but it gives us the chance to clear out some of the crap, and finally build up some confidence and momentum.
That Newcastle side had a few decent players though - Carroll, Nolan, Butt, Alan Smith..... All were better in their positions than any of our current squad are. And the 2nd division, or whatever it's called, is ultra competitive now and our team would be like rabbits in headlights.
Agree with the revisionist rewriting of Doug's reign. There is a lot of people with short memories.
However, the one charge leveled at Doug that I struggle with is that he was only in it for himself. The ego. The self-styled Mr Aston Villa.
Even if that is true, he was smart enough and a canny enough operator to know that he would have to maintain the club's profile and ultimately that mean top flight football. He knew that he had to glad hand and schmooze the right people in football's corridors of power, to ensure that he -and by extension the club - weren't sidelined or forgotten. And although he did get it wrong on occasions, he generally knew when to give a manager the bullet. The only one where history will say he got it spectacularly wrong is with Tony Barton.
If that is all about ego, what we could done with over the last half a dozen years is an owner with the same character trait.
I wonder how this absentee negligent c*** feels right now?
All I'll say for Deadly, regardless of the good, the bad and the ugly under him and his ego is in no question at all, but if he didn't have a genuine affection for the club he wouldn't be at almost every home game. He's older than the Earth itself but still turns up and a few times when I've seen him in the last year he's not looked too great. His main interest whilst here (and perhaps now) may have been Doug Ellis, but I can't help but like the guy, in the same way as you might like a cantankerous uncle who winds up the family for the majority of the time but is still part of the furniture and occasionally buys you a good present and you think "ah he's okay I guess."
Randy on the other hand wouldn't get a drop of my piss if he was on fire.
If I was in my 90(millions)'s like Doug, I wouldn't come to watch this horror. I'd be too worried that 10 minutes would make my ticker crumble to dust and they'd take me out the ground in a black bag.
I wonder how this absentee negligent c*** feels right now?
And therefore I doubt (and I know this is supposition) he would have allowed us to decline to the point where we will in all probability drop out of the all-encompassing Premier League with barely a whimper and a national laughing stock to boot.
It seems like a foregone conclusion now that we will be relegated but my greatest fear is that if we were to drop down a division, I couldn't see us coming back up for a long, long time. A club of Villa's resources shouldn't be scraping by in the top flight, yet we'd be asking the same management - who have mismanaged us so badly - to galvanise the club and streamline it effectively enough to be competitive. Essentially, I have no faith in anyone at Villa Park to do that.
"It's a big shit sandwich and we all have to take a bite".
And therefore I doubt (and I know this is supposition) he would have allowed us to decline to the point where we will in all probability drop out of the all-encompassing Premier League with barely a whimper and a national laughing stock to boot.
He dismantled a European Cup winning side in about 2 and bit seasons and under his stewardship saw us appoint numerous horrific managers. Oh and throw in that relegation in 86/87 too. How do you think the world of football would have viewed us had the Internet, social media, 24 hour radio and TV analysis existed back in the mid to late 80's?
That might be the most revisionist Doug Ellis statement I've ever read on here.
And therefore I doubt (and I know this is supposition) he would have allowed us to decline to the point where we will in all probability drop out of the all-encompassing Premier League with barely a whimper and a national laughing stock to boot.
He dismantled a European Cup winning side in about 2 and bit seasons and under his stewardship saw us appoint numerous horrific managers. Oh and throw in that relegation in 86/87 too. How do you think the world of football would have viewed us had the Internet, social media, 24 hour radio and TV analysis existed back in the mid to late 80's?
That might be the most revisionist Doug Ellis statement I've ever read on here.
If you re-read my post you will notice that I deliberately included the term "all-encompassing Premier League". My view on his stewardship during the the 1980s is not any different to that which you have written (although I wouldn't agree on the "numerous horrific managers" - that's the preserve of the current regime). I stand by my moriginal post: I doubt very much we would have endured a similar five year period under Doug. We can disagree as to whether the motivation would be his own ego/vanity or the value of the Premier League finances or both, but it simply wouldn't have happened.
Again, you're not reading what I'm writing. I'm talking about the here and now. I'm talking about the Premier League and the fact that a club not in it effectively ceases to exist in the eyes of the national media. I'm talking about the millions we'd be losing in money through relegation.
For the avoidance of any doubt, Doug's treatment of the manager and players of the European Cup winning team was atrocious. And, yes, it takes some kind of genius to go from Champions of Europe to relegation in five years (of which the first two we were doing alright). But the reason I'm talking about the here and now was because in 1987 relegation was a hit a club could take and perhaps benefit from for lots of reasons. In 2016 it is not quite as straightforward and, for all his faults, Doug would have recognised it.
Again, you're not reading what I'm writing. I'm talking about the here and now. I'm talking about the Premier League and the fact that a club not in it effectively ceases to exist in the eyes of the national media. I'm talking about the millions we'd be losing in money through relegation.
For the avoidance of any doubt, Doug's treatment of the manager and players of the European Cup winning team was atrocious. And, yes, it takes some kind of genius to go from Champions of Europe to relegation in five years (of which the first two we were doing alright). But the reason I'm talking about the here and now was because in 1987 relegation was a hit a club could take and perhaps benefit from for lots of reasons. In 2016 it is not quite as straightforward and, for all his faults, Doug would have recognised it.
You can't just add in 'here and now' and 'the premier league' to suit your argument.
Again, you're not reading what I'm writing. I'm talking about the here and now. I'm talking about the Premier League and the fact that a club not in it effectively ceases to exist in the eyes of the national media. I'm talking about the millions we'd be losing in money through relegation.
For the avoidance of any doubt, Doug's treatment of the manager and players of the European Cup winning team was atrocious. And, yes, it takes some kind of genius to go from Champions of Europe to relegation in five years (of which the first two we were doing alright). But the reason I'm talking about the here and now was because in 1987 relegation was a hit a club could take and perhaps benefit from for lots of reasons. In 2016 it is not quite as straightforward and, for all his faults, Doug would have recognised it.
You can't just add in 'here and now' and 'the premier league' to suit your argument.
Again, you're not reading what I'm writing. I'm talking about the here and now. I'm talking about the Premier League and the fact that a club not in it effectively ceases to exist in the eyes of the national media. I'm talking about the millions we'd be losing in money through relegation.
For the avoidance of any doubt, Doug's treatment of the manager and players of the European Cup winning team was atrocious. And, yes, it takes some kind of genius to go from Champions of Europe to relegation in five years (of which the first two we were doing alright). But the reason I'm talking about the here and now was because in 1987 relegation was a hit a club could take and perhaps benefit from for lots of reasons. In 2016 it is not quite as straightforward and, for all his faults, Doug would have recognised it.
You can't just add in 'here and now' and 'the premier league' to suit your argument.
Yes I can when it was the premise of my original post.
Whether it's 1987 or 2016, relegation is best avoided.Yes like any other problem best avoided however when it happens we must deal with it properly with a plan to recover.
Whether it's 1987 or 2016, relegation is best avoided.Yes like any other problem best avoided however when it happens we must deal with it properly with a plan to recover.
Does Doug care more about Villa? I think that is obvious.Top Deck I think I said this above
The Villa during most of Dougs reign had a significant advantage over most other clubs, it was called gate money.
Now TV money has levelled the playing field as match day takings become a less and less significant proprtion of revenue management and strategy are significantly more important.
This is where Lerner has failed badly, he has allowed clubs with less resources than us and without the 200 million+ of his own cash to count for nothing. This is spectacular failure.
This argument is precisely why trying to compare 1986/87 and 2015/16 is ultimately pointless, be it in terms of either ownership or playing squad, but for one last time I'll try to explain my view:
(1) When the club got relegated in 1987 other than the the 13,000 who were paying at the gate and the wider "support" no one would have particularly noticed. Football was mostly an irrelevance. Now it is in so many respects the be-all-and-end-all. Or rather the Premier League is. And Doug would have been cute enough to understand that.
(2) The loss of revenue as a result of relegation is now massive both in real and actual terms. In 1987 a club's biggest revenue stream was the takings on the gate and whilst in that respect it would obviously be better to be at the top end of Division One than battling for promotion in Division Two, the difference would not be that great (in fact from memory I think our average attendance showed an increase in 1987/88). And to even describe the European Cup as a gravy train is far from the truth. Although there were also other factors at play, let us not forget that the club actually made a loss in the year it was Champions of Europe. Now takings on the gate are secondary to the money received from TV provided you are in the Premier League. Now that is a gravy train and again I would suggest that Doug would pull out all the stops to stay on it.
I don't excuse or try to be an apologist for what Doug did in the 1980s. Far from it. But I recognize that then and now are different times. For reasons of status and finance if nothing else, those are the reasons why I believe Doug would not have allowed things to develop as they have done.
Does Doug care more about Villa? I think that is obvious.Top Deck I think I said this above
The Villa during most of Dougs reign had a significant advantage over most other clubs, it was called gate money.
Now TV money has levelled the playing field as match day takings become a less and less significant proprtion of revenue management and strategy are significantly more important.
This is where Lerner has failed badly, he has allowed clubs with less resources than us and without the 200 million+ of his own cash to count for nothing. This is spectacular failure.
Whether it's 1987 or 2016, relegation is best avoided.Yes like any other problem best avoided however when it happens we must deal with it properly with a plan to recover.
It is difficult to set a plan when the ownership is up in the air. As for Ellis, he is a complete penis IMHO
CTV, I have to take issue with you here re Doug. I too am becoming old, something recently made me realise that I too am becoming infirm. Yesterday cost me £100 for tickets for myself, my son and two grandchildren, £100 I could put to better use. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on the breadline but, comparing Doug's attendance at VP, his infirmities notwithstanding is, frankly horseshit. Doug has more money than me, a higher profile than me and is far and away more self-indulgent than me but, his love of Aston Villa is nowhere near or ever will be as good as mine. Egotist or not, you decide.Dave, all good points, but if some of the other posters are correct and Doug doesn't care about the Villa, only himself and money - why does he continue to attend when he really doesn't have to - its not like anyone gives a shit whether he is there or not...he's an irrelevance now, part of history. Does he go purely to look at the Doug Ellis Stand and massage his ego...possibly, but I would have to think there are easier ways for him to do that.
CTV, I have to take issue with you here re Doug. I too am becoming old, something recently made me realise that I too am becoming infirm. Yesterday cost me £100 for tickets for myself, my son and two grandchildren, £100 I could put to better use. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on the breadline but, comparing Doug's attendance at VP, his infirmities notwithstanding is, frankly horseshit. Doug has more money than me, a higher profile than me and is far and away more self-indulgent than me but, his love of Aston Villa is nowhere near or ever will be as good as mine. Egotist or not, you decide.Dave, all good points, but if some of the other posters are correct and Doug doesn't care about the Villa, only himself and money - why does he continue to attend when he really doesn't have to - its not like anyone gives a shit whether he is there or not...he's an irrelevance now, part of history. Does he go purely to look at the Doug Ellis Stand and massage his ego...possibly, but I would have to think there are easier ways for him to do that.
CTV, I have to take issue with you here re Doug. I too am becoming old, something recently made me realise that I too am becoming infirm. Yesterday cost me £100 for tickets for myself, my son and two grandchildren, £100 I could put to better use. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on the breadline but, comparing Doug's attendance at VP, his infirmities notwithstanding is, frankly horseshit. Doug has more money than me, a higher profile than me and is far and away more self-indulgent than me but, his love of Aston Villa is nowhere near or ever will be as good as mine. Egotist or not, you decide.Dave, all good points, but if some of the other posters are correct and Doug doesn't care about the Villa, only himself and money - why does he continue to attend when he really doesn't have to - its not like anyone gives a shit whether he is there or not...he's an irrelevance now, part of history. Does he go purely to look at the Doug Ellis Stand and massage his ego...possibly, but I would have to think there are easier ways for him to do that.
He goes because he has nothing else in his life.
CTV, I have to take issue with you here re Doug. I too am becoming old, something recently made me realise that I too am becoming infirm. Yesterday cost me £100 for tickets for myself, my son and two grandchildren, £100 I could put to better use. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on the breadline but, comparing Doug's attendance at VP, his infirmities notwithstanding is, frankly horseshit. Doug has more money than me, a higher profile than me and is far and away more self-indulgent than me but, his love of Aston Villa is nowhere near or ever will be as good as mine. Egotist or not, you decide.Dave, all good points, but if some of the other posters are correct and Doug doesn't care about the Villa, only himself and money - why does he continue to attend when he really doesn't have to - its not like anyone gives a shit whether he is there or not...he's an irrelevance now, part of history. Does he go purely to look at the Doug Ellis Stand and massage his ego...possibly, but I would have to think there are easier ways for him to do that.
He goes because he has nothing else in his life.
I do disagree with that. I think his hearts in the right place and it always was I suppose.
CTV, I have to take issue with you here re Doug. I too am becoming old, something recently made me realise that I too am becoming infirm. Yesterday cost me £100 for tickets for myself, my son and two grandchildren, £100 I could put to better use. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on the breadline but, comparing Doug's attendance at VP, his infirmities notwithstanding is, frankly horseshit. Doug has more money than me, a higher profile than me and is far and away more self-indulgent than me but, his love of Aston Villa is nowhere near or ever will be as good as mine. Egotist or not, you decide.Dave, all good points, but if some of the other posters are correct and Doug doesn't care about the Villa, only himself and money - why does he continue to attend when he really doesn't have to - its not like anyone gives a shit whether he is there or not...he's an irrelevance now, part of history. Does he go purely to look at the Doug Ellis Stand and massage his ego...possibly, but I would have to think there are easier ways for him to do that.
He goes because he has nothing else in his life.
I do disagree with that. I think his hearts in the right place and it always was I suppose.
Even when he was a director at Small Heath and chairman of Wolves?
CTV, I have to take issue with you here re Doug. I too am becoming old, something recently made me realise that I too am becoming infirm. Yesterday cost me £100 for tickets for myself, my son and two grandchildren, £100 I could put to better use. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on the breadline but, comparing Doug's attendance at VP, his infirmities notwithstanding is, frankly horseshit. Doug has more money than me, a higher profile than me and is far and away more self-indulgent than me but, his love of Aston Villa is nowhere near or ever will be as good as mine. Egotist or not, you decide.Dave, all good points, but if some of the other posters are correct and Doug doesn't care about the Villa, only himself and money - why does he continue to attend when he really doesn't have to - its not like anyone gives a shit whether he is there or not...he's an irrelevance now, part of history. Does he go purely to look at the Doug Ellis Stand and massage his ego...possibly, but I would have to think there are easier ways for him to do that.
He goes because he has nothing else in his life.
CTV, I have to take issue with you here re Doug. I too am becoming old, something recently made me realise that I too am becoming infirm. Yesterday cost me £100 for tickets for myself, my son and two grandchildren, £100 I could put to better use. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on the breadline but, comparing Doug's attendance at VP, his infirmities notwithstanding is, frankly horseshit. Doug has more money than me, a higher profile than me and is far and away more self-indulgent than me but, his love of Aston Villa is nowhere near or ever will be as good as mine. Egotist or not, you decide.Dave, all good points, but if some of the other posters are correct and Doug doesn't care about the Villa, only himself and money - why does he continue to attend when he really doesn't have to - its not like anyone gives a shit whether he is there or not...he's an irrelevance now, part of history. Does he go purely to look at the Doug Ellis Stand and massage his ego...possibly, but I would have to think there are easier ways for him to do that.
He goes because he has nothing else in his life.
Rubbish.
CTV, I have to take issue with you here re Doug. I too am becoming old, something recently made me realise that I too am becoming infirm. Yesterday cost me £100 for tickets for myself, my son and two grandchildren, £100 I could put to better use. Don't get me wrong, I'm not on the breadline but, comparing Doug's attendance at VP, his infirmities notwithstanding is, frankly horseshit. Doug has more money than me, a higher profile than me and is far and away more self-indulgent than me but, his love of Aston Villa is nowhere near or ever will be as good as mine. Egotist or not, you decide.Dave, all good points, but if some of the other posters are correct and Doug doesn't care about the Villa, only himself and money - why does he continue to attend when he really doesn't have to - its not like anyone gives a shit whether he is there or not...he's an irrelevance now, part of history. Does he go purely to look at the Doug Ellis Stand and massage his ego...possibly, but I would have to think there are easier ways for him to do that.
He goes because he has nothing else in his life.
Rubbish.
You have proof to back up your assumption I take it?
Do you?
Do you?
Strangely enough, yes I do.
I still think Lerner has simply made mistakes and trusted the wrong people, or those he has brought in have done and that is why we are where we are. At the end of the day he has tried to sort out a better structure at the club, but its just not worked. Not sure what continually bashing him for the 300 or so million he has pumped in is actually trying to achieve.
I still think Lerner has simply made mistakes and trusted the wrong people, or those he has brought in have done and that is why we are where we are. At the end of the day he has tried to sort out a better structure at the club, but its just not worked. Not sure what continually bashing him for the 300 or so million he has pumped in is actually trying to achieve.
You can have any structure you like at the club, but if you're gonna run the club on a shoe string you're gonna be in trouble, and boy are we in trouble.
Do you?
Strangely enough, yes I do.
Well go on then.
I still think Lerner has simply made mistakes and trusted the wrong people, or those he has brought in have done and that is why we are where we are. At the end of the day he has tried to sort out a better structure at the club, but its just not worked. Not sure what continually bashing him for the 300 or so million he has pumped in is actually trying to achieve.
You can have any structure you like at the club, but if you're gonna run the club on a shoe string you're gonna be in trouble, and boy are we in trouble.
Do you think Leicester are run on a shoe string compared to ours?
For all Doug's faults I bet he's as fed up as we are, I can't see him sitting there feeling all smug because Randy has fucked it Right up. Actually come to think of it I'm surprised they haven't asked for advice as he ran it that Long
Do you?
Strangely enough, yes I do.
Well go on then.
There's the games when he's arrived at the ground desperate for someone to talk to, then his face has lit up when one of his mates arrives. The interview he gave a year or so after he sold up when he said it was the worst thing he'd ever done. Or there's the times I've been told about - and I'm not going to break confidences or say things that I feel should't be aired publicly; you can believe me or not, I couldn't care less one way or the other - that show for all his money and for everything he's done in his life he's a very lonely man.
For all Doug's faults I bet he's as fed up as we are, I can't see him sitting there feeling all smug because Randy has fucked it Right up. Actually come to think of it I'm surprised they haven't asked for advice as he ran it that Long
Do you?
Strangely enough, yes I do.
Well go on then.
There's the games when he's arrived at the ground desperate for someone to talk to, then his face has lit up when one of his mates arrives. The interview he gave a year or so after he sold up when he said it was the worst thing he'd ever done. Or there's the times I've been told about - and I'm not going to break confidences or say things that I feel should't be aired publicly; you can believe me or not, I couldn't care less one way or the other - that show for all his money and for everything he's done in his life he's a very lonely man.
Do you?
Strangely enough, yes I do.
Well go on then.
There's the games when he's arrived at the ground desperate for someone to talk to, then his face has lit up when one of his mates arrives. The interview he gave a year or so after he sold up when he said it was the worst thing he'd ever done. Or there's the times I've been told about - and I'm not going to break confidences or say things that I feel should't be aired publicly; you can believe me or not, I couldn't care less one way or the other - that show for all his money and for everything he's done in his life he's a very lonely man.
You know even if I thought any of this was true
There's the games when he's arrived at the ground desperate for someone to talk to, then his face has lit up when one of his mates arrives. The interview he gave a year or so after he sold up when he said it was the worst thing he'd ever done. Or there's the times I've been told about - and I'm not going to break confidences or say things that I feel should't be aired publicly; you can believe me or not, I couldn't care less one way or the other - that show for all his money and for everything he's done in his life he's a very lonely man.Being pleased to see a friend means he's please to see his friend, not that he has nothing else in his life.
Do you?
Strangely enough, yes I do.
Well go on then.
There's the games when he's arrived at the ground desperate for someone to talk to, then his face has lit up when one of his mates arrives. The interview he gave a year or so after he sold up when he said it was the worst thing he'd ever done. Or there's the times I've been told about - and I'm not going to break confidences or say things that I feel should't be aired publicly; you can believe me or not, I couldn't care less one way or the other - that show for all his money and for everything he's done in his life he's a very lonely man.
You know even if I thought any of this was true
I'm a liar then am I?
Do you?
Strangely enough, yes I do.
Well go on then.
There's the games when he's arrived at the ground desperate for someone to talk to, then his face has lit up when one of his mates arrives. The interview he gave a year or so after he sold up when he said it was the worst thing he'd ever done. Or there's the times I've been told about - and I'm not going to break confidences or say things that I feel should't be aired publicly; you can believe me or not, I couldn't care less one way or the other - that show for all his money and for everything he's done in his life he's a very lonely man.
You know even if I thought any of this was true
I'm a liar then am I?
You certainly have a hard on for HDE...
Do you?
Strangely enough, yes I do.
Well go on then.
There's the games when he's arrived at the ground desperate for someone to talk to, then his face has lit up when one of his mates arrives. The interview he gave a year or so after he sold up when he said it was the worst thing he'd ever done. Or there's the times I've been told about - and I'm not going to break confidences or say things that I feel should't be aired publicly; you can believe me or not, I couldn't care less one way or the other - that show for all his money and for everything he's done in his life he's a very lonely man.
You know even if I thought any of this was true
I'm a liar then am I?
There's the games when he's arrived at the ground desperate for someone to talk to, then his face has lit up when one of his mates arrives. The interview he gave a year or so after he sold up when he said it was the worst thing he'd ever done. Or there's the times I've been told about - and I'm not going to break confidences or say things that I feel should't be aired publicly; you can believe me or not, I couldn't care less one way or the other - that show for all his money and for everything he's done in his life he's a very lonely man.Being pleased to see a friend means he's please to see his friend, not that he has nothing else in his life.
Saying selling was the worst thing he'd ever done could mean a number of things, like for instance, that he wished he was sufficiently well enough to continue to do a job.
The rest of what you've said means nothing. It seems to me there is no evidence.
Alternatively, if you are correct and he has nothing else, then that's in common with probably ninety-eight percent of people fortunate to reach his age.
Do you?
Strangely enough, yes I do.
Well go on then.
There's the games when he's arrived at the ground desperate for someone to talk to, then his face has lit up when one of his mates arrives. The interview he gave a year or so after he sold up when he said it was the worst thing he'd ever done. Or there's the times I've been told about - and I'm not going to break confidences or say things that I feel should't be aired publicly; you can believe me or not, I couldn't care less one way or the other - that show for all his money and for everything he's done in his life he's a very lonely man.
You know even if I thought any of this was true
I'm a liar then am I?
You certainly have a hard on for HDE...
I'm stating my opinion, as you are. You don't have to take part.
You claim he's got nothing else in his life and I don't agree. You did say something along the lines of "you can believe me or not" didn't you?
I don't.
I still think Lerner has simply made mistakes and trusted the wrong people, or those he has brought in have done and that is why we are where we are. At the end of the day he has tried to sort out a better structure at the club, but its just not worked. Not sure what continually bashing him for the 300 or so million he has pumped in is actually trying to achieve.
You can have any structure you like at the club, but if you're gonna run the club on a shoe string you're gonna be in trouble, and boy are we in trouble.
Do you think Leicester are run on a shoe string compared to ours?
Have they had 5 years of cutbacks behind them?
He [Ellis] took us down, Randy probably will. Judge each man by his deeds, or something like that.And took the appropriate action to get us back up again.
Would Ellis have allowed O'Neill to throw the clubs money around without asking questions?
Would Ellis have appointed the manager of Birmingham City?
Would Ellis have stood by while Lambert broke crap records one by one?
Would Ellis have appointed wet behind the ear officials to run the club for him?
Would Ellis have tolerated the media ridiculing the club and himself?
And yet, seemingly without quibble, he sold the club to Randy Lerner. Both a pair of unique gentlemen, or knobs as I prefer to call them.To be fair, it seems that Randy had everyone fooled for a while.
He [Ellis] took us down, Randy probably will. Judge each man by his deeds, or something like that.And took the appropriate action to get us back up again.
He described it as a shambles. Which is pretty much what it is now.He [Ellis] took us down, Randy probably will. Judge each man by his deeds, or something like that.And took the appropriate action to get us back up again.
And what did the manager he brought in have to say about the club.
He described it as a shambles. Which is pretty much what it is now.He [Ellis] took us down, Randy probably will. Judge each man by his deeds, or something like that.And took the appropriate action to get us back up again.
And what did the manager he brought in have to say about the club.
The difference is Ellis employed Sir Graham (i.e, took the appropriate action) to put things right.
Meanwhile, Lerner wouldn't know a qualified employee if it bit him of that tattoo of his.
Who landed in his lap, thanks to a chance conversion between Taylor and I can't remember who from Villa, where Taylor mentioned that it might be time for him to look for a new challenge as he'd done all he could at Watford.
Without that we could just have easily ended up with Dave Bassett.
Who landed in his lap, thanks to a chance conversion between Taylor and I can't remember who from Villa, where Taylor mentioned that it might be time for him to look for a new challenge as he'd done all he could at Watford.Who, for all we know, might have achieved the same or more than Sir Graham. We'll never know.
Without that we could just have easily ended up with Dave Bassett.
Bloody hell, talk about a butterfly flapping its wings: if only Hutton had managed to clear the ball yesterday we may well have won and we’d have some hope. By shanking it into his own net, not only did we lose the match but he’s changed the world as we know it. Overnight we've been relegated never to return, Doug Ellis has become a popular, selfless and competent chairman, Moyes is guaranteed safety spurned, Pulis is a manager to admire, O’Neill was hard done by, and to cap it all Randy Lerner has apparently pledged to invest a further billion pounds if enough of us call him a c***. It’s almost as if people have lost their minds.Good rant and you left out Fat Sam who said a week ago that he has no chance of saving Sunderland unless he finds the right players in the transfer window has now become Pep Guardiola on here after a couple of lucky wins in 5 days!
I'm confused.Who landed in his lap, thanks to a chance conversion between Taylor and I can't remember who from Villa, where Taylor mentioned that it might be time for him to look for a new challenge as he'd done all he could at Watford.Who, for all we know, might have achieved the same or more than Sir Graham. We'll never know.
Without that we could just have easily ended up with Dave Bassett.
How Sir Graham's appointment came about isn't important. What is is that it happened at all.
Would Ellis have allowed O'Neill to throw the clubs money around without asking questio
Would Ellis have appointed the manager of Birmingham City?
Would Ellis have stood by while Lambert broke crap records one by one?
Would Ellis have appointed wet behind the ear officials to run the club for him?
Would Ellis have tolerated the media ridiculing the club and himself?
I'm confused.The improtant thing is we appointed Taylor. History shows us this.
It wasn't important that we appointed Taylor as someone like Dave Bassett might have achieved similar, but the way we came to appoint Taylor wasn't important as the important thing was we appointed him?
So as long as we sacked Bingo Billy and replaced him with someone else we were sorted?
Just like we were getting rid of Turner for ????
"Doug hadn't mentioned me at all but Dick phoned him and said I was interested. Dick deserves all the credit."Well that's a revelation to me.
There's also a bit about how he thought he'd gone as far as he could with Watford and needed to manage a big club to have a chance of the England job. I'll type it up if you like.
"Doug hadn't mentioned me at all but Dick phoned him and said I was interested. Dick deserves all the credit."Well that's a revelation to me.
There's also a bit about how he thought he'd gone as far as he could with Watford and needed to manage a big club to have a chance of the England job. I'll type it up if you like.
No need to type it up. Like I said, how it came about is not important. That it did is.
Perhaps another way to look at it is that he took advice from someone."Doug hadn't mentioned me at all but Dick phoned him and said I was interested. Dick deserves all the credit."Well that's a revelation to me.
There's also a bit about how he thought he'd gone as far as he could with Watford and needed to manage a big club to have a chance of the England job. I'll type it up if you like.
No need to type it up. Like I said, how it came about is not important. That it did is.
Him getting the job was important, but it was the luckiest thing that Doug ever had happen, particularly given that Dave Bassett was about to be appointed. This was typical of the one thing Doug has over everyone else - whenever he was in trouble a manager invariably fell into his lap.
It's a pity he didn't take advice for the previous five years in that case.Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks, eh?
And a pity he didn't take a bit more advice over the next nineteen.Not sure what you're getting at. Ron Atkinson did alright for a while, as did Brian Little, and to a lesser degree John Gregory. But I'm sure you don't need a history lesson from me.
Bloody hell, talk about a butterfly flapping its wings: if only Hutton had managed to clear the ball yesterday we may well have won and we’d have some hope. By shanking it into his own net, not only did we lose the match but he’s changed the world as we know it. Overnight we've been relegated never to return, Doug Ellis has become a popular, selfless and competent chairman, Moyes is guaranteed safety spurned, Pulis is a manager to admire, O’Neill was hard done by, and to cap it all Randy Lerner has apparently pledged to invest a further billion pounds if enough of us call him a c***. It’s almost as if people have lost their minds.Good rant and you left out Fat Sam who said a week ago that he has no chance of saving Sunderland unless he finds the right players in the transfer window has now become Pep Guardiola on here after a couple of lucky wins in 5 days!
And a pity he didn't take a bit more advice over the next nineteen.Not sure what you're getting at. Ron Atkinson did alright for a while, as did Brian Little, and to a lesser degree John Gregory. But I'm sure you don't need a history lesson from me.
Sure, there were failings too. Venglos, O'Leary. Even Sir Graham revisted didn't go as well as we'd hoped.
I'm confused.The improtant thing is we appointed Taylor. History shows us this.
It wasn't important that we appointed Taylor as someone like Dave Bassett might have achieved similar, but the way we came to appoint Taylor wasn't important as the important thing was we appointed him?
So as long as we sacked Bingo Billy and replaced him with someone else we were sorted?
Just like we were getting rid of Turner for ????
How we appointed him isn't important (in nearly thirty years I'd heard nothing untoward about how Ellis had come to employ Taylor until today!) The important thing is that we did employ him.
I've no idea if Dave Bassett could have done the same, done better or done worse. You brought his name in to the subject - I've no idea why.
McNeill was at Manchester City when we appointed him.
And yet, seemingly without quibble, he sold the club to Randy Lerner. Both a pair of unique gentlemen, or knobs as I prefer to call them.To be fair, it seems that Randy had everyone fooled for a while.
Definitely started something with the Doug revision, but I think all areas have been covered , he is a man who whilst he was here split opinion, nice to see he has not lost his touch the old git even in his 90's.
But back to Lerner, people only see the decisions since he cut back to be the problem, but in my view this is false also, that decision to cut back became necessary because of his bad management up to that point, yes I agree with Dave that he built up expectation by stating the aim was for top 4 and the Chumps league and that was what where we believe we should be, lets be fair that first game in August, we all have that one percent in the back of our mind that this could be our year, not withstanding the nurse with the medicine next to us.
But we are where we are now because of a total lack of expenditure on suitable players and not seeming to have a set plan, still not convinced we have a financial structure in place now, that is based on Premier League football and our expectations have been managed to very low levels.
That places us where we are now and to a certain extent Remi having a free run at least up to January and I still do not believe he will be given funds in January, the problem being he has no alternatives look at the below and see;
Guzan, the only professional footballer, foot being the word that cannot receive or kick a ball with any confidence from anyone in the crowd, so that must spill over to his team mates, but the manager must think Bunn is worse.
Hutton plenty of faults, but apart from pulling the centre half into what we believe would be a more suitable position, no alternative.
Centre half Clark, do we trust Lescott, Senderos (Jan I know), call back Baker, no one cried when he went, Crespo ?? maybe Okore but he has been out a good while now. Richardson, well maybe a one legged dog is an alternative.
Midfield, when he doesnt play we all call for Sanchez.
Gaye, Vertout, shall we replace them with Westwood, Gardner who has not torn up any trees in a Villa shirt and maybe a useful addition for next year when were down.
Then you have Gill, so yeah option if his heads right Jack, but cant play the two together much to lightweight, so one or the other.
Sinclair, ok maybe Adama, but he is not ready for a relegation scrap, we are not good enough to lose the ball as much as we have done, he would add to that. Charlie , why will he be the answer now, he has not been since walking in the door, clutching at straws Gabby or shall we keep him as an alternative to Ayew, then Rudy who cant get a full game now, to replace by the man that for my thinking too many people have looked at and thought narrgghh, Libor. Squad filler Baccuna, cameo roles thats all.
This is what Lerners spending policy has achieved, we now may have a competent manager,but he has a squad of no alternatives if players are not performing, god I was depressed before writing this, someone get me a drink quick.
I think one could argue that things were going wrong even before O'Neill walked. The way he was allowed free access to the cheque book to sign third choice right-backs on £40k p/w was insanity by Lerner.And yet, seemingly without quibble, he sold the club to Randy Lerner. Both a pair of unique gentlemen, or knobs as I prefer to call them.To be fair, it seems that Randy had everyone fooled for a while.
I may be wrong, but Martin O'Neill smacks me as the kind of manager who wants to run a club from top to bottom. I imagine that type of set up would have suited Lerner, but once O'Neill walked the decisions were left to him and things began to go wrong.
It's the Doug taking appropriate action by appointing him I disagree with. Taylor was pure dumb luck.Ellis appointed Taylor. Nutshell. Action was appropriate because it prevented the club from stagnating in the lower leagues.
...
Appropriate action? Sorry, not buying it. Doug's history was going for the easyish option.
It's the Doug taking appropriate action by appointing him I disagree with. Taylor was pure dumb luck.Ellis appointed Taylor. Nutshell. Action was appropriate because it prevented the club from stagnating in the lower leagues.
...
Appropriate action? Sorry, not buying it. Doug's history was going for the easyish option.
It's the Doug taking appropriate action by appointing him I disagree with. Taylor was pure dumb luck.Ellis appointed Taylor. Nutshell. Action was appropriate because it prevented the club from stagnating in the lower leagues.
...
Appropriate action? Sorry, not buying it. Doug's history was going for the easyish option.
Taylor being appointed was definitely appropriate. It just wasn't much action by Doug.
See Dave W's previous comment about Bassett being on the verge of being appointed. That must have been somewhere in my subconscious when I raised him as an example as the kind of manager Doug could gave appointed.
It's the Doug taking appropriate action by appointing him I disagree with. Taylor was pure dumb luck.Ellis appointed Taylor. Nutshell. Action was appropriate because it prevented the club from stagnating in the lower leagues.
...
Appropriate action? Sorry, not buying it. Doug's history was going for the easyish option.
It's the Doug taking appropriate action by appointing him I disagree with. Taylor was pure dumb luck.Ellis appointed Taylor. Nutshell. Action was appropriate because it prevented the club from stagnating in the lower leagues.
...
Appropriate action? Sorry, not buying it. Doug's history was going for the easyish option.
And let's never forget whose fault that was. You can blithly skip over the most rapid decline in the history of English football if you want but it was solely down to Doug Ellis and everything else he ever did has to be judged against that.
It's the Doug taking appropriate action by appointing him I disagree with. Taylor was pure dumb luck.Ellis appointed Taylor. Nutshell. Action was appropriate because it prevented the club from stagnating in the lower leagues.
...
Appropriate action? Sorry, not buying it. Doug's history was going for the easyish option.
And let's never forget whose fault that was. You can blithly skip over the most rapid decline in the history of English football if you want but it was solely down to Doug Ellis and everything else he ever did has to be judged against that.
And let's never forget whose fault that was. You can blithly skip over the most rapid decline in the history of English football if you want but it was solely down to Doug Ellis and everything else he ever did has to be judged against that.And Randy Lerner will also be judged.
Round of applause.And let's never forget whose fault that was. You can blithly skip over the most rapid decline in the history of English football if you want but it was solely down to Doug Ellis and everything else he ever did has to be judged against that.And Randy Lerner will also be judged.
He's made this club the laughing stock of English football. Barely a 20% win rate at home in over eighty games stretching back over five seasons. You must know how that feels. It feels shit having had the enthusiasm pummeled out of you because VILLA PARK HAS BECOME A DOORMAT. Where just about every two-bit club has pitched up and taken the piss in recent years.
We can argue about who the worst owner was all we like. Ellis' relegation against Lerner's imminent relegation. Ellis taking a wage against Lerner blindly throwing money at a manager who didn't know the meaning of treating money with respect. Ellis' two Coca Cola Cups against Lerner's scarves, Holte Hotel and tarting up the Trinity (the latter being down to Ellis in fairness).
History tells us that after relegation last time we came back stronger, even winning a few cups along the way.
But this is the here and now. My god, this club is fucked. And it doesn't matter how it is dressed up. It doesn't matter how it is spun. Ultimately, Randy Lerner is the person responsible for the current plight of Aston Villa Football Club.
And let's never forget whose fault that was. You can blithly skip over the most rapid decline in the history of English football if you want but it was solely down to Doug Ellis and everything else he ever did has to be judged against that.And Randy Lerner will also be judged.
He's made this club the laughing stock of English football. Barely a 20% win rate at home in over eighty games stretching back over five seasons. You must know how that feels. It feels shit having had the enthusiasm pummeled out of you because VILLA PARK HAS BECOME A DOORMAT. Where just about every two-bit club has pitched up and taken the piss in recent years.
We can argue about who the worst owner was all we like. Ellis' relegation against Lerner's imminent relegation. Ellis taking a wage against Lerner blindly throwing money at a manager who didn't know the meaning of treating money with respect. Ellis' two Coca Cola Cups against Lerner's scarves, Holte Hotel and tarting up the Trinity (the latter being down to Ellis in fairness).
History tells us that after relegation last time we came back stronger, even winning a few cups along the way.
But this is the here and now. My god, this club is fucked. And it doesn't matter how it is dressed up. It doesn't matter how it is spun. Ultimately, Randy Lerner is the person responsible for the current plight of Aston Villa Football Club.
Round of applause.And let's never forget whose fault that was. You can blithly skip over the most rapid decline in the history of English football if you want but it was solely down to Doug Ellis and everything else he ever did has to be judged against that.And Randy Lerner will also be judged.
He's made this club the laughing stock of English football. Barely a 20% win rate at home in over eighty games stretching back over five seasons. You must know how that feels. It feels shit having had the enthusiasm pummeled out of you because VILLA PARK HAS BECOME A DOORMAT. Where just about every two-bit club has pitched up and taken the piss in recent years.
We can argue about who the worst owner was all we like. Ellis' relegation against Lerner's imminent relegation. Ellis taking a wage against Lerner blindly throwing money at a manager who didn't know the meaning of treating money with respect. Ellis' two Coca Cola Cups against Lerner's scarves, Holte Hotel and tarting up the Trinity (the latter being down to Ellis in fairness).
History tells us that after relegation last time we came back stronger, even winning a few cups along the way.
But this is the here and now. My god, this club is fucked. And it doesn't matter how it is dressed up. It doesn't matter how it is spun. Ultimately, Randy Lerner is the person responsible for the current plight of Aston Villa Football Club.
Round of applause.And let's never forget whose fault that was. You can blithly skip over the most rapid decline in the history of English football if you want but it was solely down to Doug Ellis and everything else he ever did has to be judged against that.And Randy Lerner will also be judged.
He's made this club the laughing stock of English football. Barely a 20% win rate at home in over eighty games stretching back over five seasons. You must know how that feels. It feels shit having had the enthusiasm pummeled out of you because VILLA PARK HAS BECOME A DOORMAT. Where just about every two-bit club has pitched up and taken the piss in recent years.
We can argue about who the worst owner was all we like. Ellis' relegation against Lerner's imminent relegation. Ellis taking a wage against Lerner blindly throwing money at a manager who didn't know the meaning of treating money with respect. Ellis' two Coca Cola Cups against Lerner's scarves, Holte Hotel and tarting up the Trinity (the latter being down to Ellis in fairness).
History tells us that after relegation last time we came back stronger, even winning a few cups along the way.
But this is the here and now. My god, this club is fucked. And it doesn't matter how it is dressed up. It doesn't matter how it is spun. Ultimately, Randy Lerner is the person responsible for the current plight of Aston Villa Football Club.
And while you're blindly clapping, and skipping over the many faults of the newly-deified St Doug, remember which of the two took on a club that was in trouble and which of them ruined the best team in Europe, ostracised its players and hounded its manager even after his death and made the club he supposedly loves ignore its greatest achievement. Not through neglect or incompetence, but because he couldn't bear to acknowledge what other men than him had done. And you think we're a laughing stock now.
You can criticize Lerner and still think that Ellis was a massive wanker. I don't see why the faults of one improve the reputation of the other.
You can criticize Lerner and still think that Ellis was a massive wanker. I don't see why the faults of one improve the reputation of the other.
You can criticize Lerner and still think that Ellis was a massive wanker. I don't see why the faults of one improve the reputation of the other.
This is what I don't understand. How can anyone defend Ellis, just to prove a point about Lerner?
You can criticize Lerner and still think that Ellis was a massive wanker. I don't see why the faults of one improve the reputation of the other.
This is what I don't understand. How can anyone defend Ellis, just to prove a point about Lerner?
It's only natural that some fans might compare the two though. Do you really think Ellis would have appointed the bloke who just relegated Small Heath?
It's only natural that some fans might compare the two though. Do you really think Ellis would have appointed the bloke who just relegated Small Heath?
You can criticize Lerner and still think that Ellis was a massive [word omitted due to the internet filter in my office.] I don't see why the faults of one improve the reputation of the other.
I came on to a thread about Randy Lerner to see people laying into Ellis. I felt it was over the top and so said so although drawing comparisons is natural, I suppose.You can criticize Lerner and still think that Ellis was a massive wanker. I don't see why the faults of one improve the reputation of the other.
This is what I don't understand. How can anyone defend Ellis, just to prove a point about Lerner?
I agree with both of you, its not either or for me.They both have been attrocious in different ways. I do take your point though, that with Lerner it has not been vindictive just incompetance, stupidity and neglect.Round of applause.And let's never forget whose fault that was. You can blithly skip over the most rapid decline in the history of English football if you want but it was solely down to Doug Ellis and everything else he ever did has to be judged against that.And Randy Lerner will also be judged.
He's made this club the laughing stock of English football. Barely a 20% win rate at home in over eighty games stretching back over five seasons. You must know how that feels. It feels shit having had the enthusiasm pummeled out of you because VILLA PARK HAS BECOME A DOORMAT. Where just about every two-bit club has pitched up and taken the piss in recent years.
We can argue about who the worst owner was all we like. Ellis' relegation against Lerner's imminent relegation. Ellis taking a wage against Lerner blindly throwing money at a manager who didn't know the meaning of treating money with respect. Ellis' two Coca Cola Cups against Lerner's scarves, Holte Hotel and tarting up the Trinity (the latter being down to Ellis in fairness).
History tells us that after relegation last time we came back stronger, even winning a few cups along the way.
But this is the here and now. My god, this club is fucked. And it doesn't matter how it is dressed up. It doesn't matter how it is spun. Ultimately, Randy Lerner is the person responsible for the current plight of Aston Villa Football Club.
And while you're blindly clapping, and skipping over the many faults of the newly-deified St Doug, remember which of the two took on a club that was in trouble and which of them ruined the best team in Europe, ostracised its players and hounded its manager even after his death and made the club he supposedly loves ignore its greatest achievement. Not through neglect or incompetence, but because he couldn't bear to acknowledge what other men than him had done. And you think we're a laughing stock now.
I came on to a thread about Randy Lerner to see people laying into Ellis. I felt it was over the top and so said so although drawing comparisons is natural, I suppose.You can criticize Lerner and still think that Ellis was a massive wanker. I don't see why the faults of one improve the reputation of the other.
This is what I don't understand. How can anyone defend Ellis, just to prove a point about Lerner?
Trust me, I don't need to defend Ellis to make a case for why Lerner has been so poor. It is there for all to see.
So tell us, Dave, now that you've got your feelings about Ellis out of your system. Who do you think is responsible for the current plight of Aston Villa?
Edit - very sensible post by Ads, BTW.
At least you get the sense that, for all of his faults, Doug really did care. And when he knew he'd cocked up he sold the club to the man who he felt was the best person for the job. The thing that bugs me about Randy is the indifferance. Does he actually care about anything other than money?
iYou can criticize Lerner and still think that Ellis was a massive wanker. I don't see why the faults of one improve the reputation of the other.
This is what I don't understand. How can anyone defend Ellis, just to prove a point about Lerner?
It's only natural that some fans might compare the two though. Do you really think Ellis would have appointed the bloke who just relegated Small Heath?
Graham Turner. And as I've said before, McLeish was the daftest, most inexplicable decision in the club's history but Turner was by far the worst. At least McLeish had managed with a modicum of success at the level we were at, and played at a higher one. Turner, nice guy though he was, was expected to come from Shrewsbury and manage a dressing room full of champions.
At least you get the sense that, for all of his faults, Doug really did care. And when he knew he'd cocked up he sold the club to the man who he felt was the best person for the job. The thing that bugs me about Randy is the indifferance. Does he actually care about anything other than money?
At least you get the sense that, for all of his faults, Doug really did care. And when he knew he'd cocked up he sold the club to the man who he felt was the best person for the job. The thing that bugs me about Randy is the indifferance. Does he actually care about anything other than money?
It's only natural that some fans might compare the two though. Do you really think Ellis would have appointed the bloke who just relegated Small Heath?
No, he'd have been too busy appointing the bloke who was doing a great job of relegating Man City.
Doug jacked it in when he realised that there were no more magic money trees such as the NTL or flotation money to fund another round of purchases.At least you get the sense that, for all of his faults, Doug really did care. And when he knew he'd cocked up he sold the club to the man who he felt was the best person for the job. The thing that bugs me about Randy is the indifferance. Does he actually care about anything other than money?
Which of the two made money out of his time at Villa?
Neither made the club successful but Doug made himself a fortune.
Ellis did things out of spite. Lerner has done things through naivety and just plain making mistakes. That will always be the big difference for me.
Lerner's mistakes, in my opinion:
Allowing O'Neill to go nuts with the chequebook signing players he subsequently wouldn't use - the resulting wage bill had a direct impact on the club in the post-O'Neill seasons.
Employing Alex McCleish - the fans didn't want a Blues boss who'd just got them relegated. Lerner employed him regardless, as if to say "It's my club, I'll do as I please."
Giving Lambert a four-year contract on the back of five results at the start of last season.
Not allowing Sherwood to pick his own transfer targets in the summer.
Writing a pathetically cheap release clause into Fabian Delph's new contract. One could argue that was an act of deception against the supporters.
Feel free to add your own, people.
So are you happy with the deception? The big deal made of the fact that our captain had signed a new deal, only for the deal to be a hollow one? With such a low buy-out clause, of course unknown to the support at the time, that any club swimming in Dhirams or Rubles could have stepped in and bought without blinking?
We had no choice with the Delph contract. He'd have just walked otherwise.
He should be given a medal for not allowing Sherwood to buy a bunch of expensive PL guff.
At least you get the sense that, for all of his faults, Doug really did care. And when he knew he'd cocked up he sold the club to the man who he felt was the best person for the job. The thing that bugs me about Randy is the indifferance. Does he actually care about anything other than money?
Which of the two made money out of his time at Villa?
Neither made the club successful but Doug made himself a fortune.
I'm not sure I agree with the Man City theory, that when they came along Lerner gave up, the timing is convenient but I bet it's simpler than that in that he thought chuck some money at it, after all that's what the fans have craved during the Ellis years and everything will be dandy. There wasn't any plan behind any of it from day 1. Nice bloke, completely out of his depth and completely clueless as to running a football club.
I'm not sure I agree with the Man City theory, that when they came along Lerner gave up, the timing is convenient but I bet it's simpler than that in that he thought chuck some money at it, after all that's what the fans have craved during the Ellis years and everything will be dandy. There wasn't any plan behind any of it from day 1. Nice bloke, completely out of his depth and completely clueless as to running a football club.I suspect that ultimately, that that's all there is to it.
He should be given a medal for not allowing Sherwood to buy a bunch of expensive PL guff.
Oh I don't know, I wouldn't mind a few extra players in the squad who know what they're doing in the Premier League.
Sí. Porque es tan facile hablar con seis frances y un español cuando ellos no bastante hablar la idioma.He should be given a medal for not allowing Sherwood to buy a bunch of expensive PL guff.
Oh I don't know, I wouldn't mind a few extra players in the squad who know what they're doing in the Premier League.
What like Townsend at £14m and Adebayor at £200k a week. Maybe he could have just tried harder to integrate the players he was given.
He should be given a medal for not allowing Sherwood to buy a bunch of expensive PL guff.
Oh I don't know, I wouldn't mind a few extra players in the squad who know what they're doing in the Premier League.
What like Townsend at £14m and Adebayor at £200k a week. Maybe he could have just tried harder to integrate the players he was given.
So are you happy with the deception? The big deal made of the fact that our captain had signed a new deal, only for the deal to be a hollow one? With such a low buy-out clause, of course unknown to the support at the time, that any club swimming in Dhirams or Rubles could have stepped in and bought without blinking?
We had no choice with the Delph contract. He'd have just walked otherwise.
And I'm certainly not happy about being deceived.So are you happy with the deception? The big deal made of the fact that our captain had signed a new deal, only for the deal to be a hollow one? With such a low buy-out clause, of course unknown to the support at the time, that any club swimming in Dhirams or Rubles could have stepped in and bought without blinking?
We had no choice with the Delph contract. He'd have just walked otherwise.
I'm not happy with any of it. Me being peeved won't change the facts though.
And I'm certainly not happy about being deceived.So are you happy with the deception? The big deal made of the fact that our captain had signed a new deal, only for the deal to be a hollow one? With such a low buy-out clause, of course unknown to the support at the time, that any club swimming in Dhirams or Rubles could have stepped in and bought without blinking?
We had no choice with the Delph contract. He'd have just walked otherwise.
I'm not happy with any of it. Me being peeved won't change the facts though.
Or the lack of home wins in the last six months.
Oh come on. He could have signed and said nothing. But it was all a set up. "Fabian, tell the fans that you love this club."And I'm certainly not happy about being deceived.So are you happy with the deception? The big deal made of the fact that our captain had signed a new deal, only for the deal to be a hollow one? With such a low buy-out clause, of course unknown to the support at the time, that any club swimming in Dhirams or Rubles could have stepped in and bought without blinking?
We had no choice with the Delph contract. He'd have just walked otherwise.
I'm not happy with any of it. Me being peeved won't change the facts though.
Or the lack of home wins in the last six months.
You wasn't deceived. He signed a new contract and he said he was going to stay loyal. If anyone did any deceiving, it was the player himself.
Oh come on. He could have signed and said nothing. But it was all a set up. "Fabian, tell the fans that you love this club."And I'm certainly not happy about being deceived.So are you happy with the deception? The big deal made of the fact that our captain had signed a new deal, only for the deal to be a hollow one? With such a low buy-out clause, of course unknown to the support at the time, that any club swimming in Dhirams or Rubles could have stepped in and bought without blinking?
We had no choice with the Delph contract. He'd have just walked otherwise.
I'm not happy with any of it. Me being peeved won't change the facts though.
Or the lack of home wins in the last six months.
You wasn't deceived. He signed a new contract and he said he was going to stay loyal. If anyone did any deceiving, it was the player himself.
The first one is exactly what I'm talking about. Cynically set out to deceive the supporters.
Maybe the first one was planned to be announced the way it was. His second time round show of loyalty a week before he left definately wasn't.
The first one is exactly what I'm talking about. Cynically set out to deceive the supporters.
Maybe the first one was planned to be announced the way it was. His second time round show of loyalty a week before he left definately wasn't.
The clause was at least half the value it should have been for an England international. Utter incompetance by the club, with Lerner responsible. As for the second time I don't need to explain. At that point Man City had triggered the release fee. Delph initially chose not to go, then had a change of heart.The first one is exactly what I'm talking about. Cynically set out to deceive the supporters.
Maybe the first one was planned to be announced the way it was. His second time round show of loyalty a week before he left definately wasn't.
He had a clause put in his contract, it happens, albeit as low as it was. How do you explain the second one?
The clause was at least half the value it should have been for an England international. Utter incompetance by the club, with Lerner responsible. As for the second time I don't need to explain. At that point Man City had triggered the release fee. Delph initially chose not to go, then had a change of heart.The first one is exactly what I'm talking about. Cynically set out to deceive the supporters.
Maybe the first one was planned to be announced the way it was. His second time round show of loyalty a week before he left definately wasn't.
He had a clause put in his contract, it happens, albeit as low as it was. How do you explain the second one?
It wasn't so much a change of heart, rather than taking the piss by coming out with all that 'i'm loyal' bollocks'.So rather than letting him get to within six months of the end of his deal, why not act sooner?
As for the fee, it was low but bearing in mind he was out of contract in the summer anyway, he could have walked away for nothing. We did the right thing in the circumstances if that's what Delph was insisting on, which judging by the size of the clause, he must have.
Probably the same reason Ellis let Bosnich and Staunton run their contracts down as examples, it happens.It's nothing to do with Ellis. We're taking about the here and now and how our once great club has got into the pile of shit it finds itself.
It wasn't so much a change of heart, rather than taking the piss by coming out with all that 'i'm loyal' bollocks'.So rather than letting him get to within six months of the end of his deal, why not act sooner?
As for the fee, it was low but bearing in mind he was out of contract in the summer anyway, he could have walked away for nothing. We did the right thing in the circumstances if that's what Delph was insisting on, which judging by the size of the clause, he must have.
Well, actually, he did for a week.It wasn't so much a change of heart, rather than taking the piss by coming out with all that 'i'm loyal' bollocks'.So rather than letting him get to within six months of the end of his deal, why not act sooner?
As for the fee, it was low but bearing in mind he was out of contract in the summer anyway, he could have walked away for nothing. We did the right thing in the circumstances if that's what Delph was insisting on, which judging by the size of the clause, he must have.
Maybe they were talking and he wanted to wait, who knows? Besides, he didn't hang around once another club came in did he?
Probably the same reason Ellis let Bosnich and Staunton run their contracts down as examples, it happens.It's nothing to do with Ellis. We're taking about the here and now and how our once great club has got into the pile of shit it finds itself.
Well, actually, he did for a week.It wasn't so much a change of heart, rather than taking the piss by coming out with all that 'i'm loyal' bollocks'.So rather than letting him get to within six months of the end of his deal, why not act sooner?
As for the fee, it was low but bearing in mind he was out of contract in the summer anyway, he could have walked away for nothing. We did the right thing in the circumstances if that's what Delph was insisting on, which judging by the size of the clause, he must have.
Maybe they were talking and he wanted to wait, who knows? Besides, he didn't hang around once another club came in did he?
Probably the same reason Ellis let Bosnich and Staunton run their contracts down as examples, it happens.It's nothing to do with Ellis. We're taking about the here and now and how our once great club has got into the pile of shit it finds itself.
As I explained earlier, I waded in when I saw a thread entitled "Randy Lerner" full of stuff about how Ellis was being talked of as the devil incarnate. I felt some of the comments were out of line and so I said so.Probably the same reason Ellis let Bosnich and Staunton run their contracts down as examples, it happens.It's nothing to do with Ellis. We're taking about the here and now and how our once great club has got into the pile of shit it finds itself.
But you were ok comparing the Ellis years with Lerner's not only a few days ago?
Oh, I see you want to quote me out of context to score points. Grow up.Probably the same reason Ellis let Bosnich and Staunton run their contracts down as examples, it happens.It's nothing to do with Ellis. We're taking about the here and now and how our once great club has got into the pile of shit it finds itself.
BINGO!
I thought drawing comparisons was only natural?
...and it's no coincidence that we haven't won Eurovision since Lerner showed up either. Clearly he is the Anti-Christ and the root of all evil.
For what it is worth, I think he was fully engaged in the early years and it was only the economic downturn and more particularly his divorce that changed his position. Now, he's chosen to be very remote and disconnected, which is not a problem if he had employed the right people and empowered them to make the necessary decisions in his absence. I get the feeling he still wants the final say on everything Villa, which is not smart when he is not involved on a day-to-day basis. He seems like a decent chap, but not the top business person we were expecting, and to be fair, we were warned by the long-suffering Browns fans.
I came on to a thread about Randy Lerner to see people laying into Ellis. I felt it was over the top and so said so although drawing comparisons is natural, I suppose.
As I explained earlier, I waded in when I saw a thread entitled "Randy Lerner" full of stuff about how Ellis was being talked of as the devil incarnate. I felt some of the comments were out of line and so I said so.Probably the same reason Ellis let Bosnich and Staunton run their contracts down as examples, it happens.It's nothing to do with Ellis. We're taking about the here and now and how our once great club has got into the pile of shit it finds itself.
But you were ok comparing the Ellis years with Lerner's not only a few days ago?
So either comparisons can be made, or they can't.Well you quoted me from this afternoon, so an apparent attempt to antagonise or distract from the matter at hand. Anyway, as I remember it with Vlaar people were glad to see the back of him because he'd become a liability. But maybe we move in different circles.QuoteI came on to a thread about Randy Lerner to see people laying into Ellis. I felt it was over the top and so said so although drawing comparisons is natural, I suppose.
Although my actual point is clubs everywhere let a players contract wind down for a variety of reasons, it happens. Last summer the club were also getting slaughtered for letting Vlaar get to a final year, some you win, some you lose.
If this situation was happening under Ellis, fans would have been calling for him to be hung, drawn and quartered. Yet Lerner continues to get an easy ride. I couldn't care less if Lerners a nice man, he's spent the last 5 years sabotaging one of England's biggest clubs and continues to be allowed to get away with it.Exacta-fucking-mundo.
Sí. Porque es tan facile hablar con seis frances y un español cuando ellos no bastante hablar la idioma.He should be given a medal for not allowing Sherwood to buy a bunch of expensive PL guff.
Oh I don't know, I wouldn't mind a few extra players in the squad who know what they're doing in the Premier League.
What like Townsend at £14m and Adebayor at £200k a week. Maybe he could have just tried harder to integrate the players he was given.
Sarcasm mode firmly on.
As I explained earlier, I waded in when I saw a thread entitled "Randy Lerner" full of stuff about how Ellis was being talked of as the devil incarnate. I felt some of the comments were out of line and so I said so.Probably the same reason Ellis let Bosnich and Staunton run their contracts down as examples, it happens.It's nothing to do with Ellis. We're taking about the here and now and how our once great club has got into the pile of shit it finds itself.
But you were ok comparing the Ellis years with Lerner's not only a few days ago?
If this situation was happening under Ellis, fans would have been calling for him to be hung, drawn and quartered. Yet Lerner continues to get an easy ride. I couldn't care less if Lerners a nice man, he's spent the last 5 years sabotaging one of England's biggest clubs and continues to be allowed to get away with it.
You must be wondering what sort of witchcraft Leicester are using which means that they were able to sign Swiss, Japanese, Senegalese, Tunisian and Austrian players and yet be able to use them competently.Well then explain the emphasis on Remi Garde being able to gel all of the French players in the squad then. Still waiting for that to happen, BTW. Not that I blame Garde for any of this mess.
You can't make a player sign a contract if he doesn't want to. Can you imagine the outcry on here if he'd have walked out the door for nothing?
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tim-sherwood-gives-insight-aston-10406255
From the horses mouth.
"I certainly had a say, but the final say?"
Trust me, if I wanted to antagonize you'd know.Okay, but when I walk on to a thread about Lerner and its full of people laying into Ellis like its 1986 it feels like an attempt to distract from what is happening today.
Quite how citing examples and saying "it happens" is to distract from the manner at hand is beyond me. And again, last summer the club were getting slaughtered on here over Vlaar and Delph for being in their last year. One we won, one we half lost.
You must be wondering what sort of witchcraft Leicester are using which means that they were able to sign Swiss, Japanese, Senegalese, Tunisian and Austrian players and yet be able to use them competently.Well then explain the emphasis on Remi Garde being able to gel all of the French players in the squad then. Still waiting for that to happen, BTW. Not that I blame Garde for any of this mess.
Lerner 'gets off lightly' because we all know he wants out, so stuff like 'Lerner Out' protests are pretty pointless as that's what he wants to do anyway.And the fact he's not here to face them in person. Ever.
Sorry. You lost me. I said what?You must be wondering what sort of witchcraft Leicester are using which means that they were able to sign Swiss, Japanese, Senegalese, Tunisian and Austrian players and yet be able to use them competently.Well then explain the emphasis on Remi Garde being able to gel all of the French players in the squad then. Still waiting for that to happen, BTW. Not that I blame Garde for any of this mess.
What does that have to do with your ridiculous claim that one of Lerner's biggest mistakes was not letting a shit manager waste enormous amounts of money on shit footballers?
Sorry. You lost me. I said what?You must be wondering what sort of witchcraft Leicester are using which means that they were able to sign Swiss, Japanese, Senegalese, Tunisian and Austrian players and yet be able to use them competently.Well then explain the emphasis on Remi Garde being able to gel all of the French players in the squad then. Still waiting for that to happen, BTW. Not that I blame Garde for any of this mess.
What does that have to do with your ridiculous claim that one of Lerner's biggest mistakes was not letting a shit manager waste enormous amounts of money on shit footballers?
Not allowing Sherwood to pick his own transfer targets in the summer.
Lerner 'gets off lightly' because we all know he wants out, so stuff like 'Lerner Out' protests are pretty pointless as that's what he wants to do anyway.And the fact he's not here to face them in person. Ever.
You said this:If he was that shit then what was he doing at the club in the first place? Aside from the fact that Lerner employed him.Not allowing Sherwood to pick his own transfer targets in the summer.
I wouldn't have minded seeing what players Sherwood would have signed. Is it possible they could have been even worse than the shit we've seen so far this season?Lennon, Townsend and Adebayor? Yes, quite comfortably.
I wouldn't have minded seeing what players Sherwood would have signed. Is it possible they could have been even worse than the shit we've seen so far this season?Lennon, Townsend and Adebayor? Yes, quite comfortably.
And by all accounts, Lescott and Gestede were his picks.
Lerner 'gets off lightly' because we all know he wants out, so stuff like 'Lerner Out' protests are pretty pointless as that's what he wants to do anyway.
You said this:If he was that shit then what was he doing at the club in the first place? Aside from the fact that Lerner employed him.Not allowing Sherwood to pick his own transfer targets in the summer.
That's another addition to the list.
If this situation was happening under Ellis, fans would have been calling for him to be hung, drawn and quartered. Yet Lerner continues to get an easy ride. I couldn't care less if Lerners a nice man, he's spent the last 5 years sabotaging one of England's biggest clubs and continues to be allowed to get away with it.
I wouldn't have minded seeing what players Sherwood would have signed. Is it possible they could have been even worse than the shit we've seen so far this season?Lennon, Townsend and Adebayor? Yes, quite comfortably.
And by all accounts, Lescott and Gestede were his picks.
I'd take them now. I wonder if we'd have more than the 5 points in December?
I wouldn't have minded seeing what players Sherwood would have signed. Is it possible they could have been even worse than the shit we've seen so far this season?Lennon, Townsend and Adebayor? Yes, quite comfortably.
And by all accounts, Lescott and Gestede were his picks.
I'd take them now. I wonder if we'd have more than the 5 points in December?
Probably not, because he would still be a horrendous manager. And whoever had replaced him when he got fired would have worse players to use than we currently have.
If this situation was happening under Ellis, fans would have been calling for him to be hung, drawn and quartered. Yet Lerner continues to get an easy ride. I couldn't care less if Lerners a nice man, he's spent the last 5 years sabotaging one of England's biggest clubs and continues to be allowed to get away with it.
Do you really believe this! Deliberately throwing away his money to send us down! The man has made some very poor decisions but to say he did it deliberately is the biggest load of b****** I have ever read on here and that is saying something. Everybody is entitled to express an opinion but .........
I read somewhere that we've spent a net sum of £5m per season over the last 5 years. You can call it "poor decisions" and I'll call it sabotage, because that's what it feels like.
I wouldn't have minded seeing what players Sherwood would have signed. Is it possible they could have been even worse than the shit we've seen so far this season?Lennon, Townsend and Adebayor? Yes, quite comfortably.
And by all accounts, Lescott and Gestede were his picks.
I'd take them now. I wonder if we'd have more than the 5 points in December?
Probably not, because he would still be a horrendous manager. And whoever had replaced him when he got fired would have worse players to use than we currently have.
I've seen nothing from our new players to suggest they're better than Lennon and co.
Between the 3 of them they've started 2 league games this season and have 0 goals and 0 assists and I dread to think what they'd be costing in wages never mind the fees. As much as we're struggling i'm happier with what we have, especially long term.To be fair, they're at a club currently fifth(?) in the table.
If this situation was happening under Ellis, fans would have been calling for him to be hung, drawn and quartered. Yet Lerner continues to get an easy ride. I couldn't care less if Lerners a nice man, he's spent the last 5 years sabotaging one of England's biggest clubs and continues to be allowed to get away with it.
Do you really believe this! Deliberately throwing away his money to send us down! The man has made some very poor decisions but to say he did it deliberately is the biggest load of b****** I have ever read on here and that is saying something. Everybody is entitled to express an opinion but .........
Between the 3 of them they've started 2 league games this season and have 0 goals and 0 assists and I dread to think what they'd be costing in wages never mind the fees. As much as we're struggling i'm happier with what we have, especially long term.To be fair, they're at a club currently fifth(?) in the table.
Oh okay. Lol, I should pay more attention.Between the 3 of them they've started 2 league games this season and have 0 goals and 0 assists and I dread to think what they'd be costing in wages never mind the fees. As much as we're struggling i'm happier with what we have, especially long term.To be fair, they're at a club currently fifth(?) in the table.
One left by 'mutual consent', one is at Everton and one is at Spurs.
If this situation was happening under Ellis, fans would have been calling for him to be hung, drawn and quartered. Yet Lerner continues to get an easy ride. I couldn't care less if Lerners a nice man, he's spent the last 5 years sabotaging one of England's biggest clubs and continues to be allowed to get away with it.
Do you really believe this! Deliberately throwing away his money to send us down! The man has made some very poor decisions but to say he did it deliberately is the biggest load of b****** I have ever read on here and that is saying something. Everybody is entitled to express an opinion but .........
Where have I said deliberately?
Selling Milner and taking Stephen Ireland in return. Did we even reinvest the money (£16M - Milner was worth far more to us than that) in the squad - I can't remember.
So what is your definition of sabotage?
Between the 3 of them they've started 2 league games this season and have 0 goals and 0 assists and I dread to think what they'd be costing in wages never mind the fees. As much as we're struggling i'm happier with what we have, especially long term.
Most of the players brought in aren't good enough. Hence why we have 5 points on 1st December.......5 points is horrific - I wince when I look at the Prem League table.Yep and there were plenty of people saying it was purely down to the Manager, no doubt that Sherwood lost the plot but no doubting that you can not replace Vlaar Delph Benteke and Cleverly with Ayew Gana Amavi and Vertout.
Most of the players brought in aren't good enough. Hence why we have 5 points on 1st December.......5 points is horrific - I wince when I look at the Prem League table.Yep and there were plenty of people saying it was purely down to the Manager, no doubt that Sherwood lost the plot but no doubting that you can not replace Vlaar Delph Benteke and Cleverly with Ayew Gana Amavi and Vertout.
Between the 3 of them they've started 2 league games this season and have 0 goals and 0 assists and I dread to think what they'd be costing in wages never mind the fees. As much as we're struggling i'm happier with what we have, especially long term.
The single biggest recruitment error was not getting a new keeper, and starting with the man who'd lost his place to a 36 year old who you've let go on a free.
That just smacks of incompetence.
I'd say that was more down to a serious of minor f¤¤k ups culminating in the mother of all f¤¤k ups at Man City.The single biggest recruitment error was not getting a new keeper, and starting with the man who'd lost his place to a 36 year old who you've let go on a free.
That just smacks of incompetence.
Probably one of the reasons that Guzan's confidence is shot to shit
Our problem is very little to do with the continental signings of the summer and it is time that Sherwood spin was knocked on the head. Like DW I never expected anything from us pre Christmas as new players settled in. What has blown that theory out of the water is the abominably awful performances of the players the imports were added to. The performances of Guzan, Richardson, Westwood, Agbonlahor and Clark with the added rubbish of Blackburn's Gestede and Stripeyfilth's Lescott are why we are where we are.
Most of the players brought in aren't good enough. Hence why we have 5 points on 1st December.......5 points is horrific - I wince when I look at the Prem League table.Yep and there were plenty of people saying it was purely down to the Manager, no doubt that Sherwood lost the plot but no doubting that you can not replace Vlaar Delph Benteke and Cleverly with Ayew Gana Amavi and Vertout.
Chuck in the basket case Guzan and you have a recipe for disaster.
Lerner 's is ultimately responsible for leaving us in the position of trying to regenerate an entire squad in one summer. If he had any sense left he would give Garde big money as he gave Houllier big money to get a striker and a centre half. Time will tell if he even tries to give it a go.
Our problem is very little to do with the continental signings of the summer and it is time that Sherwood spin was knocked on the head. Like DW I never expected anything from us pre Christmas as new players settled in. What has blown that theory out of the water is the abominably awful performances of the players the imports were added to. The performances of Guzan, Richardson, Westwood, Agbonlahor and Clark with the added rubbish of Blackburn's Gestede and Stripeyfilth's Lescott are why we are where we are.
Our problem is very little to do with the continental signings of the summer and it is time that Sherwood spin was knocked on the head. Like DW I never expected anything from us pre Christmas as new players settled in. What has blown that theory out of the water is the abominably awful performances of the players the imports were added to. The performances of Guzan, Richardson, Westwood, Agbonlahor and Clark with the added rubbish of Blackburn's Gestede and Stripeyfilth's Lescott are why we are where we are.
After seeing the first game of the season, I felt (and posted on here) that we could easily finish rock bottom
How was anybody able to make an assessment on the likes of Ayew and Veretout after a few games when they've hardly played until now?
Our problem is very little to do with the continental signings of the summer and it is time that Sherwood spin was knocked on the head. Like DW I never expected anything from us pre Christmas as new players settled in. What has blown that theory out of the water is the abominably awful performances of the players the imports were added to. The performances of Guzan, Richardson, Westwood, Agbonlahor and Clark with the added rubbish of Blackburn's Gestede and Stripeyfilth's Lescott are why we are where we are.
Have to agree Brian, the experienced players especially at the back have contributed massively to where we are.
I work, from time to time, with a bloke who's been doing the same job as me for twenty-odd years, longer than I have. Nice enough lad, but jeez, I reckon he goes home every evening and zaps himself with one of those memory-wiping thingys from out of off of Men In Black. Every day is like it's his first day on the job!
Our regular back 5 must have a fair few hundred PL appearances between them. I see similarities.
Looking back now (hindsight being easy I know), it appears our summer's business shows the lack of direction and the muddled thinking that has characterised the club for far too long now.
On the one hand we were signing overseas potential as they represented better value, and then on the other we brought in the likes of Gestede and Lescott as a sop to a manager who clearly wasn't in tune with this new approach to recruitment. They should've sacked Sherwood in the summer and committed themselves fully to the direction we're now just about taking (too late probably).
Even before that our transfer policies have lurched from one failure to another. First there was the 'expensive, english, but proven premier league types', that played such a big part in sending the club into its present downward spiral in the first place. Next we had 'hungry, cheap, lower league types', and then when that didn't work out, we went out and got some more 'proven premier league types', but who were cheaper and basically past it.
I actually believe we're on the right track now, but have a horrible feeling that come relegation in the summer, we'll just lurch into some other direction, and have to start all over again, because we're run by American Idiots.
I work, from time to time, with a bloke who's been doing the same job as me for twenty-odd years, longer than I have. Nice enough lad, but jeez, I reckon he goes home every evening and zaps himself with one of those memory-wiping thingys from out of off of Men In Black. Every day is like it's his first day on the job!
Our regular back 5 must have a fair few hundred PL appearances between them. I see similarities.
That's exactly what I think Randy is like. He sets off down one path, goes to bed, then next morning decides on another.
I work, from time to time, with a bloke who's been doing the same job as me for twenty-odd years, longer than I have. Nice enough lad, but jeez, I reckon he goes home every evening and zaps himself with one of those memory-wiping thingys from out of off of Men In Black. Every day is like it's his first day on the job!
Our regular back 5 must have a fair few hundred PL appearances between them. I see similarities.
That's exactly what I think Randy is like. He sets off down one path, goes to bed, then next morning decides on another.
You seem to have some idea on what he does of a day, Dave. I'd be surprised if he can actually be arsed to get out of bed. I mean, does the bloke actually still exist??
ps I thought your 'Chance in a Million' piece was very measured - given the circumstances. Fair play & thanks for the sensible approach. I don't think I'd have got beyond a vulgar, single syllable word (of probable Middle Dutch origin), although it might well have had an 'ed' stuck on the end.
I work, from time to time, with a bloke who's been doing the same job as me for twenty-odd years, longer than I have. Nice enough lad, but jeez, I reckon he goes home every evening and zaps himself with one of those memory-wiping thingys from out of off of Men In Black. Every day is like it's his first day on the job!
Our regular back 5 must have a fair few hundred PL appearances between them. I see similarities.
That's exactly what I think Randy is like. He sets off down one path, goes to bed, then next morning decides on another.
You seem to have some idea on what he does of a day, Dave. I'd be surprised if he can actually be arsed to get out of bed. I mean, does the bloke actually still exist??
ps I thought your 'Chance in a Million' piece was very measured - given the circumstances. Fair play & thanks for the sensible approach. I don't think I'd have got beyond a vulgar, single syllable word (of probable Middle Dutch origin), although it might well have had an 'ed' stuck on the end.
I haven't a clue what he does, but I know what I'd be doing if I had his money and it wouldn't be anywhere near Aston. One thing's for sure, though; we have to get used to the idea that any new owner will be closer to the Lerner approach than the Ellis one. You are never going to get an owner who will have us as their main priority and who will spend significant amounts of time on the club. The best you can realistically hope for is one who will put up as much money as Randy has, appoint the right people to the right jobs, then step back and enjoy his hobby whenever he wants.
How was anybody able to make an assessment on the likes of Ayew and Veretout after a few games when they've hardly played until now?
Veretout could have been a sunflower farmer from the Charente, for all I knew
I don't know about that, but we've definitely got too many shrinking violets in our team, especially at the back.How was anybody able to make an assessment on the likes of Ayew and Veretout after a few games when they've hardly played until now?
Veretout could have been a sunflower farmer from the Charente, for all I knew
I'd imagine he wishes he was at the moment.
Tell me about it. Clark should have rose to head the ball away for Watford's 3rdI don't know about that, but we've definitely got too many shrinking violets in our team, especially at the back.How was anybody able to make an assessment on the likes of Ayew and Veretout after a few games when they've hardly played until now?
Veretout could have been a sunflower farmer from the Charente, for all I knew
I'd imagine he wishes he was at the moment.
Selling Milner and taking Stephen Ireland in return. Did we even reinvest the money (£16M - Milner was worth far more to us than that) in the squad - I can't remember.
So what is your definition of sabotage?
I'll catch up tomorrow. Night night all.
Selling Milner and taking Stephen Ireland in return. Did we even reinvest the money (£16M - Milner was worth far more to us than that) in the squad - I can't remember.
So what is your definition of sabotage?
I'll catch up tomorrow. Night night all.
For me the crazy part in that transfer was bringing in Ireland when we didn't have a manager. Bringing in a player when you have no idea what the new manager's style and philosophy will be smacked of idiocy.
Fox gave an interesting insight to Randy's flip flop nature at the Trust AGM. It seems that he put us up for sale but regretted it immediately and became "an unmotivated seller".
Then, when there was no sale, he decided that it was best if he took himself out of proceedings all together and would appoint a new chairman. But that didn't happen.
And now here we are again, in the shit and not a peep from the chairman since that comment in the summer.
Say what you like about Randy, and we will, at least he has not had an utterly damning report about him lodged by Amnesty International like the owners of Manchester City have. Two million migrant workers effectively enslaved to deliver a World Cup they should never have got in the first place. Those are the people you owe your success to Citeh fans. I will stick with our unworldly doughnut owner.
Say what you like about Randy, and we will, at least he has not had an utterly damning report about him lodged by Amnesty International like the owners of Manchester City have. Two million migrant workers effectively enslaved to deliver a World Cup they should never have got in the first place. Those are the people you owe your success to Citeh fans. I will stick with our unworldly doughnut owner.
Man City's owners are from Abu Dhabi, not Qatar, but I take the point. Randy Lerner isn't a slave master. However, given the choice between Randy and relegation, and Sheikh Mansour and the Premier League title, I know which one I'd prefer.
The geography is indeed wrong, but Abu Dhabi's human rights are nonetheless shameful.
Jimbo, I know the point that you're making, but given the choice I'd rather having nothing whatsoever to do with football. When I've said this to City-supporting friends and colleagues, they suggest I'm only jealous, rather than acknowledge the fact that, as a long-term supporter of Amnesty, I might be serious.
500 miles apart by distance joined at the hip by culture that breeds racism, bigotry and intolerance. There is no difference between the slave traders who rule any of Emirates, Qatar and Bahrain etc.Say what you like about Randy, and we will, at least he has not had an utterly damning report about him lodged by Amnesty International like the owners of Manchester City have. Two million migrant workers effectively enslaved to deliver a World Cup they should never have got in the first place. Those are the people you owe your success to Citeh fans. I will stick with our unworldly doughnut owner.
Man City's owners are from Abu Dhabi, not Qatar, but I take the point. Randy Lerner isn't a slave master. However, given the choice between Randy and relegation, and Sheikh Mansour and the Premier League title, I know which one I'd prefer.
Yep, quick geography lesson for Brian. Abu Dhabi is part of the United Arab Emirates, and is about 500 miles away from Qatar, which is an entirely separate country.
Fox gave an interesting insight to Randy's flip flop nature at the Trust AGM. It seems that he put us up for sale but regretted it immediately and became "an unmotivated seller".This is illuminating. Nothing kills an enterprise like indecision, lack of action and u turns at every setback.
Then, when there was no sale, he decided that it was best if he took himself out of proceedings all together and would appoint a new chairman. But that didn't happen.
And now here we are again, in the shit and not a peep from the chairman since that comment in the summer.
A little thing that has been bothering me...I read today that Man City have sold a 13% stake in their business for over 200 million quid to state-backed Chinese investors. That this has happened several months after (supposed Villa fan fan) David Cameron and his Chancellor, George Osborne, urged the Chinese President to postpone a visit to Brum and go to Manchester instead (where he duly showed the President around Man City's new training complex) genuinely infuriates me.
What on earth is going on? The wider question is why is the UK government encouraging this type of investment in Manchester and London and why are they simply paying lip service (as far as I can see ) to Birmingham? Does Villa's predicament (and Lerner's inability to find a buyer) mirror the wider political/economical development of the UK economy - i.e. the northern and southern "powerhouses" are, for the time being, the only regions worth major blue-chip investment? If this is the case we are totally hamstrung by forces beyond our control.
A little thing that has been bothering me...I read today that Man City have sold a 13% stake in their business for over 200 million quid to state-backed Chinese investors. That this has happened several months after (supposed Villa fan fan) David Cameron and his Chancellor, George Osborne, urged the Chinese President to postpone a visit to Brum and go to Manchester instead (where he duly showed the President around Man City's new training complex) genuinely infuriates me.
What on earth is going on? The wider question is why is the UK government encouraging this type of investment in Manchester and London and why are they simply paying lip service (as far as I can see ) to Birmingham? Does Villa's predicament (and Lerner's inability to find a buyer) mirror the wider political/economical development of the UK economy - i.e. the northern and southern "powerhouses" are, for the time being, the only regions worth major blue-chip investment? If this is the case we are totally hamstrung by forces beyond our control.
Do you honestly think that China's decision to invest in Man City has anything to do with Cameron pushing the north? Or is it City looking to crack the Chinese market, and China in turn looking for a slice of a successful team in the most popular league who are Champions League regulars? Or should they go for a team who have been shit for 5 years with an idiot for an owner and who won't even be in the Premier League next season.
A little thing that has been bothering me...I read today that Man City have sold a 13% stake in their business for over 200 million quid to state-backed Chinese investors. That this has happened several months after (supposed Villa fan fan) David Cameron and his Chancellor, George Osborne, urged the Chinese President to postpone a visit to Brum and go to Manchester instead (where he duly showed the President around Man City's new training complex) genuinely infuriates me.
What on earth is going on? The wider question is why is the UK government encouraging this type of investment in Manchester and London and why are they simply paying lip service (as far as I can see ) to Birmingham? Does Villa's predicament (and Lerner's inability to find a buyer) mirror the wider political/economical development of the UK economy - i.e. the northern and southern "powerhouses" are, for the time being, the only regions worth major blue-chip investment? If this is the case we are totally hamstrung by forces beyond our control.
Do you honestly think that China's decision to invest in Man City has anything to do with Cameron pushing the north? Or is it City looking to crack the Chinese market, and China in turn looking for a slice of a successful team in the most popular league who are Champions League regulars? Or should they go for a team who have been shit for 5 years with an idiot for an owner and who won't even be in the Premier League next season.
The best ground deal anybody could have wished for prior to Karren Brady and the pornsters being given a gift wrapped fully operational Olympic stadium for fourpenceha'penny.
I thought I read somewhere that Man City pay a higher rent than the pittance the Brady bunch will, or is that the bit they have been allowed to keep secret. Mustn't offend the proprietors of Pregnant Asian Babes and the like.
agree with most of that however the bottom line is that randy owns the club and he can do what he wants
what can we do? short of not turning up which wouldnt have a great effect as what 70% of the crowd have season tickets
i dont know the answer
agree with most of that however the bottom line is that randy owns the club and he can do what he wants
what can we do? short of not turning up which wouldnt have a great effect as what 70% of the crowd have season tickets
i dont know the answer
Find the thick end of £150 million and take it from there.
Thanks for the detail Dave about the Man City deal. You can't beat having the taxpayer in your squad.
Has this been posted anywhere? An open letter from the myoldmansaid site, completely agree.Pretty damning.
....
In the summer Villa sold Christian Benteke and Fabian Delph for circa £40m (in addition to a few other smaller sales) and whilst I accept we then proceeded to spend more than this amount, it was still a minimal net outlay.
So to put it into perspective a team that finished 17th last season sold their two best players and then had a net outlay of less than £10m (source: Sky Sports); meaning we even spent less than all of the promoted teams but expected to see an improvement. This is at best naive or at worst, yet again mis-management.
I would finally like to ask the question in an era of untold riches for Premier League clubs where is the money going? Because it certainly isn’t being invested in the football team.
agree with most of that however the bottom line is that randy owns the club and he can do what he wants
what can we do? short of not turning up which wouldnt have a great effect as what 70% of the crowd have season tickets
i dont know the answer
Find the thick end of £150 million and take it from there.
At what point does any random post on an internet message board become an 'open letter'?
If I start any old nonsense that I write on here with "Dear Randy", does it mean I get to join the ever-increasing crowd of people writing open letters?
How many players is it now who we've not played because of some extra money clause in their contract?
How many players is it now who we've not played because of some extra money clause in their contract?
I've always assumed this was nonsense, please don't tell me there's really something in it...
Oh I don't know. It seems to me that the sender and our concerned support are interested. It's just that Mr Lerner probably isn't.At what point does any random post on an internet message board become an 'open letter'?
If I start any old nonsense that I write on here with "Dear Randy", does it mean I get to join the ever-increasing crowd of people writing open letters?
I think original the idea of an open letter was bound up with a thought that anyone other than the sender or recipient might give a shit about what was contained within. I think this recent one fails by the parameters of that test.
Brian what is the french for we are fucked?i have it on good authority that it is "du Aston Villa in bollox de shite"
I'm behind you 100% with your anti Lerner stance but I still don't think we'll go down.
I went on a stadium tour today. The guide said that under O'Neil the wage bill had risen to 98% of the income. Currently it's at 38%.
I went on a stadium tour today. The guide said that under O'Neil the wage bill had risen to 98% of the income. Currently it's at 38%.
I also did the stadium tour many years ago. I pointed out and corrected so many errors from the guide that were made. I don't think I'll be allowed back.
I also did the stadium tour many years ago. I pointed out and corrected so many errors from the guide that were made. I don't think I'll be allowed back.
Was it a woman?
I also did the stadium tour many years ago. I pointed out and corrected so many errors from the guide that were made. I don't think I'll be allowed back.
Was it a woman?
I also did the stadium tour many years ago. I pointed out and corrected so many errors from the guide that were made. I don't think I'll be allowed back.
Was it a woman?
On another visit, I dropped in just as a tour was starting - the woman in charge was brilliant, she couldn't let me join but called a guy at the security barrier and he let me in to take some pictures and have a walk around.
I take it her knowledge is questionable?!
I went on a stadium tour today. The guide said that under O'Neil the wage bill had risen to 98% of the income. Currently it's at 38%.
I went on a stadium tour today. The guide said that under O'Neil the wage bill had risen to 98% of the income. Currently it's at 38%.
Did Chris Nicholl join you on the tour?
I went on a stadium tour today. The guide said that under O'Neil the wage bill had risen to 98% of the income. Currently it's at 38%.
Did Chris Nicholl join you on the tour?
Yes.
I was on the tour too, small world. Chris was a lovely fella
I'm behind you 100% with your anti Lerner stance but I still don't think we'll go down.
I'm behind you 100% with your anti Lerner stance but I still don't think we'll go down.
S_H, I never thought I'd say this, but...what makes you so optimistic? *winky thing*
I've asked you this before, but I'll try again.I think I've read somewhere recently that Villa's net spend over the last five seasons is something like £55M in total for that period. I don't know if that is accurate or not, but if it is than it doesn't seem alot when you consider that even the bottom placed team in the league earns upwards of £60M (http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2014/05/14/where-the-money-went-liverpool-top-premier-league-prize-cash-in-2013-14-140501/) from the deal in place for 2013-2016. The article points out that TV money from foreign deals is on top of this.
How much do you think Lerner should have continued to invest, bearing that the current tab is north of £250M?
Background info before answering.
1. Abramovich, a man who's worth around 10 times Lerner's personal net worth, put the best part of £1 billion into Chelsea over a 10 year period before pretty much calling a halt. They still spend plenty "net" but it's almost all covered by CL and associated TV income.
2. The Mansoors, who to all intents and purposes have limitless wealth, put the best part of £1.2 billion into Man City over a 5-6 year period before reigning in the chequebook. Again they spend plenty "net" but it's almost all covered by CL and associated TV income.
3. "Enough" or similar isn't an answer. A number be it £1 or £10 billion or anywhere in between.
Undoubtedly some of the money coming into the club has gone on player wages, but when you consider a player on a reported £70k p/w is on £3.64M per year, the knowledge that they don't all get that (notice that I don't use the word "earn") must make one wonder where the TV money is all going.
I have not studied the accounts in detail but my guess is that Lerner is down about £200 to £230 million based on investment+ loans less Interest and Management Charges recieved. is that about right?Undoubtedly some of the money coming into the club has gone on player wages, but when you consider a player on a reported £70k p/w is on £3.64M per year, the knowledge that they don't all get that (notice that I don't use the word "earn") must make one wonder where the TV money is all going.
You can find that out by taking a look at the accounts.
There isn't an easy way to take money out of the club on the quiet, if that's what you're suggesting.
Lerner seems to me to be a man who was an enthusiastic idiot for five years, then an unenthusiastic idiot for another five years. One thing that is way, way wide of the mark, though, is the suggestion that he hasn't put huge amounts of money into the club - he has.
He's written off enormous amounts of money he put into the club as loans. He has slammed the brakes on the spending in recent years, yes, but he's lost a fortune on us.
All the Lerner bashing is not going to rewrite a single line of the last five years of Aston Villa's history.This is of course correct, however supporters up and down the country feel the need to vent their fury, their unhappiness, their dis-satisfaction when they see things are not rosy and they feel that their chairman is largely to blame. Why would Villa's support be any different?
We have to rebuild the team with the tools and materials at hand.What if those tools and materials are not sufficient to do the job? The Roman Empire was once a great empire, just as Aston Villa were once a great football club.
Right, let me try and pick the positives from our current malaise.
If we go down then clearly lerner has the same two options of selling up or not. If he does sell up the price drops and given that Lerner seems to be keen to sell only to the right people, then a cheaper price may induce someone to fancy the club knowing the spending well next summer would mean going into the riches of the Premier League.
I tried to do some reading on what Randy did before he took over from his father - all I can find is that he set up SAI in 2001, no evidence of it existing by that name now (from what I can see)His dad was the money maker from furniture , Real Estate to Banking.
Did come across a Liverpool thread, bizarrely. One Liverpool fan said this:
"Martin O'Neill will be running around like a happy clappy chappie I reckon ;)
Long, long overdue from a Villa perspective. Doug Ellis was the classic example of an ageing despot clinging on to a crumbling regime, this may just have saved them from disaster in the nick of time"
Makes me want to weep. Well not really, but its very sad.
Kuwait, you stated above that Randy is and allways has been a business man. I disagree , Lerner inherited some businesses from his father.
I asked on another occaision a list of Lerners achievements which did not include inheriting a fortune from his father.
I'd love to know how he spends his days. I bet it's all crystals, reiki massages and colonic irrigation.
I'd love to know how he spends his days. I bet it's all crystals, reiki massages and colonic irrigation.
I'd love to know how he spends his days. I bet it's all crystals, reiki massages and colonic irrigation.
Wanking mainly,I suspect...
I'd love to know how he spends his days. I bet it's all crystals, reiki massages and colonic irrigation.
From the front page of The Institute of Directors document - The role of the chairman - Factsheet
The essential tasks of a chairman are as follows:
• providing leadership to the board
• taking responsibility for the board’s composition and development
• ensuring proper information for the board
• planning and conducting board meetings effectively
• getting all directors involved in the board’s work
• ensuring the board focuses on its key tasks
• engaging the board in assessing and improving its performance
• overseeing the induction and development of directors
• supporting the chief executive/MD
Full document here if anyone's interested. (https://www.iod.com/MainWebSite/Resources/Document/roleofthechairman_1006.pdf)
So he/she will be an employee of either the club or RAL - Lerner's company that owns the club, depending on how it's set up and will most likely not be investing any capital into the club.
I'd go so far as to suggest that it's the 2 highlighted bits that we've lacked the most whilst Lerner has been the de-facto chairman.
Hopefully it's a sensible, but ultimately take no shit kind of character with experience working within high profile sports, preferably a club environment and ideally football.
From the front page of The Institute of Directors document - The role of the chairman - Factsheet
The essential tasks of a chairman are as follows:
• providing leadership to the board
• taking responsibility for the board’s composition and development
• ensuring proper information for the board
• planning and conducting board meetings effectively
• getting all directors involved in the board’s work
• ensuring the board focuses on its key tasks
• engaging the board in assessing and improving its performance
• overseeing the induction and development of directors
• supporting the chief executive/MD
Full document here if anyone's interested. (https://www.iod.com/MainWebSite/Resources/Document/roleofthechairman_1006.pdf)
So he/she will be an employee of either the club or RAL - Lerner's company that owns the club, depending on how it's set up and will most likely not be investing any capital into the club.
I'd go so far as to suggest that it's the 2 highlighted bits that we've lacked the most whilst Lerner has been the de-facto chairman.
Hopefully it's a sensible, but ultimately take no shit kind of character with experience working within high profile sports, preferably a club environment and ideally football.
Ok, fair enough, but as CEO I would have thought Tom Fox would already be doing this. Am I just being thick?
So long as priority number 1 in January is a proven goal scorer, a left back and a goalkeeper he can hire Charlie Sheen as Chairman for all I care the buffoon.That's a lot of priority number 1s, but then this is the mess that we are in. I'm tempted to say a decent centre half could be added to that list.
So long as priority number 1 in January is a proven goal scorer, a left back and a goalkeeper he can hire Charlie Sheen as Chairman for all I care the buffoon.That's a lot of priority number 1s, but then this is the mess that we are in. I'm tempted to say a decent centre half could be added to that list.
From the front page of The Institute of Directors document - The role of the chairman - Factsheet
The essential tasks of a chairman are as follows:
• providing leadership to the board
• taking responsibility for the board’s composition and development
• ensuring proper information for the board
• planning and conducting board meetings effectively
• getting all directors involved in the board’s work
• ensuring the board focuses on its key tasks
• engaging the board in assessing and improving its performance
• overseeing the induction and development of directors
• supporting the chief executive/MD
Full document here if anyone's interested. (https://www.iod.com/MainWebSite/Resources/Document/roleofthechairman_1006.pdf)
So he/she will be an employee of either the club or RAL - Lerner's company that owns the club, depending on how it's set up and will most likely not be investing any capital into the club.
I'd go so far as to suggest that it's the 2 highlighted bits that we've lacked the most whilst Lerner has been the de-facto chairman.
Hopefully it's a sensible, but ultimately take no shit kind of character with experience working within high profile sports, preferably a club environment and ideally football.
Ok, fair enough, but as CEO I would have thought Tom Fox would already be doing this. Am I just being thick?
No, just confusing the roles of CEO and Chairman.
The CEO has ultimate responsibility for the day to day running of the club. The chairman is essentially there to provide oversight over the CEO and other board members and ensure that
a) they've got the tools to do their jobs
b) they're not tools and can actually do their jobs.
The chairman is in a normal company the shareholder's representative on the board, in this case just Randy.
Regardless of your (generally, not specifically you Rico) opinions on the qualities or otherwise of the individuals now in place, this kind of structure should have been in place much sooner and probably from day 1. Of course then you'd have had MON flouncing out before you could Didier Agathe.
Exactly what is the point of hiring a Chairman under this ownership structure exactly?
Exactly what is the point of hiring a Chairman under this ownership structure exactly?
Exactly what is the point of hiring a Chairman under this ownership structure exactly?
Needs to maintain a firm grip on the wheel and steer the ship firmly into that massive fucking iceberg.
Exactly what is the point of hiring a Chairman under this ownership structure exactly?
Needs to maintain a firm grip on the wheel and steer the ship firmly into that massive fucking iceberg.
The great man has his say.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/lowly-aston-villa-heading-third-7018231
Exactly what is the point of hiring a Chairman under this ownership structure exactly?
Needs to maintain a firm grip on the wheel and steer the ship firmly into that massive fucking iceberg.
I dreamed last night, or I should I say this morning, that The Randoid sold us to a mysterious Chinese entity in a fit of pique after large sections of the support bared their buttocks on live TV in a mooning protest organized by a militant section of the Brigada 1874 (Marxist-Leninist) against his stewardship. It then transpired that entity was in fact a Maoist cult based in Brixton who had a made of fortune shorting Commodities on Black Thursday using the notorious BearBot algo following the Fed rate hike decision of the previous day.
The Mad Maoist's first step was to initiate a Cultural Revolution by sending the the entire playing staff on a Long March to East Anglia to pick fruit until they learned the correct position on defending the long diagonal ball. The infamous Gang of Four were tried by a Revolutionary Council for Feckless Fuckwittery and proliferating Clusterfucks against the Masses by transorming the once grat club into a Factory of Sadness.
They were found guilty and sent to Morecambe Beach to pick muscles in adverse tidal conditions as revenge for a former incident which nobody remembers.
It was the announced that speccy fuckers with soft hands, if they tried to go down the match, would be herded onto the pitch and made to grow rice and dig tunnels deep. Then Lucy Liu appeared left field and I woke up in a pool of sweat.
Mao ? Lmao !
The great man has his say.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/lowly-aston-villa-heading-third-7018231
In fairness, and respecting his Godly status, that's alarmist rubbish.
Who is going to be on the Board of this fan based ownership ?
Will it be the People's Front of Judea or the Judea People's Front?
God help us.
The great man has his say.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/lowly-aston-villa-heading-third-7018231
In fairness, and respecting his Godly status, that's alarmist rubbish.
I find the Should Sherwood have been sacked poll results under the article currently far more alarming? Yes 40% No 60%???!!
The great man has his say.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/lowly-aston-villa-heading-third-7018231
In fairness, and respecting his Godly status, that's alarmist rubbish.
I find the Should Sherwood have been sacked poll results under the article currently far more alarming? Yes 40% No 60%???!!
Yep I noticed that too.
Exactly what is the point of hiring a Chairman under this ownership structure exactly?
Needs to maintain a firm grip on the wheel and steer the ship firmly into that massive fucking iceberg.
BINGOWho is going to be on the Board of this fan based ownership ?
Will it be the People's Front of Judea or the Judea People's Front?
God help us.
HOUSE!
Stan Collymore tweeted about the "German Way" and how their clubs are owned and run in the Bundesliga, they are usually supporter owned and the memberships and ticket prices are ludicrously cheap compared to England which leads to sell out crowds and a better relationship with the fans plus they have great youth systems and academies (so all good for the national team).
Now I don't know how we'd go about organizing x amount of supporters stumping up x amount of pounds each but you'd like to believe that with the potential fan base we had in the midlands and around the globe we could put enough together to get our club back. I know it is all a pipe dream but if we are going to rebuild then why not go the whole hog... like I said, nice to dream.
Lerner felt he needed to own the whole club and enacted his right under UK company law to compulsorarily purchase the shares owned in small quantities by individual supporters.
I can't think of 1 decent busines or ideological reason why he felt the need to avoid the scrutiny or involvement of the supporters.
Lerner felt he needed to own the whole club and enacted his right under UK company law to compulsorarily purchase the shares owned in small quantities by individual supporters.
I can't think of 1 decent busines or ideological reason why he felt the need to avoid the scrutiny or involvement of the supporters.
I can remember at the time having this argument and being shouted down by posters who were demanding that small shareholders sell to him because a Premier League club owner needs 100% control. One poster in particular came close to being reported to the police for threats of violence against anyone who didn't sell.
Lerner felt he needed to own the whole club and enacted his right under UK company law to compulsorarily purchase the shares owned in small quantities by individual supporters.
I can't think of 1 decent busines or ideological reason why he felt the need to avoid the scrutiny or involvement of the supporters.
I can remember at the time having this argument and being shouted down by posters who were demanding that small shareholders sell to him because a Premier League club owner needs 100% control. One poster in particular came close to being reported to the police for threats of violence against anyone who didn't sell.
I held on to my single, token Villa share when RAL wrote to me. I know it means nothing in business terms, and that he owns it, but at least I can say I didn't sell out to the incompetent bastard. It's framed on my wall at home.
Lerner felt he needed to own the whole club and enacted his right under UK company law to compulsorarily purchase the shares owned in small quantities by individual supporters.
I can't think of 1 decent busines or ideological reason why he felt the need to avoid the scrutiny or involvement of the supporters.
I can remember at the time having this argument and being shouted down by posters who were demanding that small shareholders sell to him because a Premier League club owner needs 100% control. One poster in particular came close to being reported to the police for threats of violence against anyone who didn't sell.
I held on to my single, token Villa share when RAL wrote to me. I know it means nothing in business terms, and that he owns it, but at least I can say I didn't sell out to the incompetent bastard. It's framed on my wall at home.
Held on to mine as a matter of principle until being forced to sell.
The attempted conversion of supporters into customers and the club into a brand are admittedly symptoms of the modern footballing world, but more importantly mistakes that will remove the mystique, grandeur and 'specialness' of Villa forever.
I can remember at the time having this argument and being shouted down by posters who were demanding that small shareholders sell to him because a Premier League club owner needs 100% control. One poster in particular came close to being reported to the police for threats of violence against anyone who didn't sell.
Lerner felt he needed to own the whole club and enacted his right under UK company law to compulsorarily purchase the shares owned in small quantities by individual supporters.
I can't think of 1 decent busines or ideological reason why he felt the need to avoid the scrutiny or involvement of the supporters.
I can remember at the time having this argument and being shouted down by posters who were demanding that small shareholders sell to him because a Premier League club owner needs 100% control. One poster in particular came close to being reported to the police for threats of violence against anyone who didn't sell.
I held on to my single, token Villa share when RAL wrote to me. I know it means nothing in business terms, and that he owns it, but at least I can say I didn't sell out to the incompetent bastard. It's framed on my wall at home.
5p
For all the mediocrity nee awfulness of his reign there is one thing to be thankful for. At least it wasn't a leveraged buyout.Banks calling in Administrators is pretty rare these days.
Imagine if the bank were involved now. I read the Directors' report in the accounts and it noted the main risk to the business as dropping out of the Premier League. A bank probably would call in the Administrators were that to be the case (well at least after parachute money was exhausted).
For all the mediocrity nee awfulness of his reign there is one thing to be thankful for. At least it wasn't a leveraged buyout.
Imagine if the bank were involved now. I read the Directors' report in the accounts and it noted the main risk to the business as dropping out of the Premier League. A bank probably would call in the Administrators were that to be the case (well at least after parachute money was exhausted).
Lerner felt he needed to own the whole club and enacted his right under UK company law to compulsorarily purchase the shares owned in small quantities by individual supporters.
I can't think of 1 decent busines or ideological reason why he felt the need to avoid the scrutiny or involvement of the supporters.
I can remember at the time having this argument and being shouted down by posters who were demanding that small shareholders sell to him because a Premier League club owner needs 100% control. One poster in particular came close to being reported to the police for threats of violence against anyone who didn't sell.
Lerner felt he needed to own the whole club and enacted his right under UK company law to compulsorarily purchase the shares owned in small quantities by individual supporters.
I can't think of 1 decent busines or ideological reason why he felt the need to avoid the scrutiny or involvement of the supporters.
I can remember at the time having this argument and being shouted down by posters who were demanding that small shareholders sell to him because a Premier League club owner needs 100% control. One poster in particular came close to being reported to the police for threats of violence against anyone who didn't sell.
I held on to my single, token Villa share when RAL wrote to me. I know it means nothing in business terms, and that he owns it, but at least I can say I didn't sell out to the incompetent bastard. It's framed on my wall at home.
I kept my two as well ( one in my mom's name as she used to go down Villa Park when she was pregnant carrying me).
How much did I miss out on? Genuinely can't recall the value.
Lerner was deffinetly the best option at the time and, in his defence, he came with best of intentions and those first few years are great. A combination of the GFC, divorce, poor managerial appointments on and off the field and Man City put paid to all that and the rest is history.
I'd also throw n the Moscow debacle which totally turned our season for the worst. A real what could have been moment.
One of our more volatile former members.
Just had a drink with a Cleveland Browns supporter, he described Randy, he just does not care, was not bothered if they won or lost, liked owning the Browns but could not be bothered to get involved in running them, just wanted some one else to do all that, now he is doing what he did to us to Villa.
Or the owner of the New England Charlestown Chiefs who dresses in women's underwear.
So who does he really dance to Kip?
Well done Randy, a fine mess to leave the new incoming Chairman when he's announced......rock bottom
His Dad was the previous owner, not sure what point you are making but if it is an attempt to defend Lerner the facts regarding his Sports ownership achievements are deafeningly loud. He is useless.Just had a drink with a Cleveland Browns supporter, he described Randy, he just does not care, was not bothered if they won or lost, liked owning the Browns but could not be bothered to get involved in running them, just wanted some one else to do all that, now he is doing what he did to us to Villa.
did you ask him about all of the owners before and after Randy? And how involved is the owner of the Chicago Bears for example? Are maybe you think Randy should be more like Jerry Jones or Arthur Blank and show up on the sidelines during games completely undermining the position of the head coach.
More defenceJust had a drink with a Cleveland Browns supporter, he described Randy, he just does not care, was not bothered if they won or lost, liked owning the Browns but could not be bothered to get involved in running them, just wanted some one else to do all that, now he is doing what he did to us to Villa.
did you ask him about all of the owners before and after Randy? And how involved is the owner of the Chicago Bears for example? Are maybe you think Randy should be more like Jerry Jones or Arthur Blank and show up on the sidelines during games completely undermining the position of the head coach.
More defenceJust had a drink with a Cleveland Browns supporter, he described Randy, he just does not care, was not bothered if they won or lost, liked owning the Browns but could not be bothered to get involved in running them, just wanted some one else to do all that, now he is doing what he did to us to Villa.
did you ask him about all of the owners before and after Randy? And how involved is the owner of the Chicago Bears for example? Are maybe you think Randy should be more like Jerry Jones or Arthur Blank and show up on the sidelines during games completely undermining the position of the head coach.
This is just silly :-[More defenceJust had a drink with a Cleveland Browns supporter, he described Randy, he just does not care, was not bothered if they won or lost, liked owning the Browns but could not be bothered to get involved in running them, just wanted some one else to do all that, now he is doing what he did to us to Villa.
did you ask him about all of the owners before and after Randy? And how involved is the owner of the Chicago Bears for example? Are maybe you think Randy should be more like Jerry Jones or Arthur Blank and show up on the sidelines during games completely undermining the position of the head coach.
Answer the question. If your Cleveland Browns supporting mate is so well versed in the operational ability of Randy Lerner he should be able to break down his predecessors and successors to objectively.
I am not an expert on American football and my mate is not here to ask questions, but my point stands that there is a willingness for some people to rush to Lerners defence by attacking posts that are critical of him.There's a difference between pointing out things that shouldn't really be relevant when discussing lerner's failings and an actual defence of him.
Lerner was shit at the Browns and shit at the Villa. That's about right isn't it?Not according to everybody, I think he is just over tired.
Where have I actually defended Lerner? I am just asking you to put his ownership of the Browns into some context. Which you are avoiding.
I must have missed the posts where anyone was saying he was a success at either. Just pointing out that your Cleveland mate missed out the bits about there being no Cleveland team before the Lerner family, and since Randy sold them they've been last every year.
Maybe he preferred it before the Lerner family appeared when the Browns were moved to Baltimore and there wasn't even a team in Cleveland for a few years in the 90s?
Like TV, rather than defending Lerner just putting the Browns stuff into context.
He sold them in 2012. They are currently 3-10 this season.
I can see a pattern here. Randy is a serial killer.
If Randy opened a cafe, I wonder what he would call it. Cafe Tears probably.
If Randy opened a cafe, I wonder what he would call it. Cafe Tears probably.
He sold them in 2012. They are currently 3-10 this season.
Lerner's father brought them back from the dead in 99.. this is their full body of work. It's hard to be as bad and dysfunctional as the Browns, and I'm from Philadelphia. The parallels between his two tenures are stunning. Now, if only we were worth a billion dollars.
_____W__ L
1999: 2 14
2000: 3 13
2001: 7 9
2002: 9 7 Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Steelers 33–36)
2003: 5 11
2004: 4 12
2005: 6 10
2006: 4 12
2007: 10 6
2008: 4 12
2009: 5 11
2010: 5 11
2011: 4 12
2012: 5 11
If Randy opened a cafe, I wonder what he would call it. Cafe Tears probably.
If Randy opened a cafe, I wonder what he would call it. Cafe Tears probably.
Sad Café
" I saw the lamplight from your window...."
I think he's nearly always been well intentioned, just God awful execution of everything.
Speaking as a long time Steelers fan, I think Randy did a first class job at the Browns
I think he's nearly always been well intentioned, just God awful execution of everything.
Agree. I suppose we'll never find out, but I do wonder just how much the events at the end of O'Neill's tenure impacted on him. He got his fingers burnt badly there and I wonder how much it impacted on him.
Maybe he preferred it before the Lerner family appeared when the Browns were moved to Baltimore and there wasn't even a team in Cleveland for a few years in the 90s?
Like TV, rather than defending Lerner just putting the Browns stuff into context.
I think he's nearly always been well intentioned, just God awful execution of everything.
Agree. I suppose we'll never find out, but I do wonder just how much the events at the end of O'Neill's tenure impacted on him. He got his fingers burnt badly there and I wonder how much it impacted on him.
Everything points to him placing great store on loyalty and decency. The way in which O'Neill and apparently Houllier left had a big impact on him.
I think he's nearly always been well intentioned, just God awful execution of everything.
Agree. I suppose we'll never find out, but I do wonder just how much the events at the end of O'Neill's tenure impacted on him. He got his fingers burnt badly there and I wonder how much it impacted on him.
Everything points to him placing great store on loyalty and decency. The way in which O'Neill and apparently Houllier left had a big impact on him.
What was with the way Houllier left?
I've always understood it to be as simple as it was sold at the time, mutual consent because of his health issues.
I think he's nearly always been well intentioned, just God awful execution of everything.
Agree. I suppose we'll never find out, but I do wonder just how much the events at the end of O'Neill's tenure impacted on him. He got his fingers burnt badly there and I wonder how much it impacted on him.
Everything points to him placing great store on loyalty and decency. The way in which O'Neill and apparently Houllier left had a big impact on him.
What was with the way Houllier left?
I've always understood it to be as simple as it was sold at the time, mutual consent because of his health issues.
I got the impression that he wasn't as amenable to leaving as the board thought he would be and took every last penny he was entitled to rather than come to a mutual agreement. Chelts or PWS will confirm, but it was either at an SCG or a Trust meeting that Paul Faulkner said he would rather shake hands with O'Neill than Houllier.
I got the impression that he wasn't as amenable to leaving as the board thought he would be and took every last penny he was entitled to rather than come to a mutual agreement.
I got the impression that he wasn't as amenable to leaving as the board thought he would be and took every last penny he was entitled to rather than come to a mutual agreement.
Is there any reason that he would or should have taken less money than he was entitled to?
If you're employed by a billionaire and your contract says you're entitled to x amount of money if you're asked to step aside, why would anybody be surprised if you then expect the money that you're owed?
I got the impression that he wasn't as amenable to leaving as the board thought he would be and took every last penny he was entitled to rather than come to a mutual agreement.
Is there any reason that he would or should have taken less money than he was entitled to?
If you're employed by a billionaire and your contract says you're entitled to x amount of money if you're asked to step aside, why would anybody be surprised if you then expect the money that you're owed?
I've no idea; maybe it was another reason, or maybe they'd been led to believe he might act with a bit more grace.
Maybe he preferred it before the Lerner family appeared when the Browns were moved to Baltimore and there wasn't even a team in Cleveland for a few years in the 90s?
Like TV, rather than defending Lerner just putting the Browns stuff into context.
Wasn't that his Dad rather than him, though?
From today's Telegraph:
Lerner’s hopes of selling the club this season are remote and the American is now so disconnected that he allegedly sent a text message to a former manager wishing him luck for the Saturday when the game was on a Sunday.
Maybe he preferred it before the Lerner family appeared when the Browns were moved to Baltimore and there wasn't even a team in Cleveland for a few years in the 90s?
Like TV, rather than defending Lerner just putting the Browns stuff into context.
Wasn't that his Dad rather than him, though?
I thought most would work that out from "Lerner family" :P
Micah Richards - Certain he was Titanic's captain in a previous life. Brainlessly charges into troubled waters whilst certainly going down with his ship. However, he is not responsible for our current position.
Ciaran Clark - Has managed to blag a Premier League career out of this club. Preying on the nadir of my Villa supporting life like a leech, bleeding the club dry of millions of pounds in wages, whilst being personally responsible for some of the most calamitous defending known to man. However, he is not responsible for our current position.
Leandro Bacuna - Forever wearing the bemused expression of a gormless rabbit in the headlights. Has the first touch of a concrete wellington. However, he is not responbile for our current position.
Rudy Gestede - Makes Heskey look like a Ferrari. Slow, uninterested and can't actually kick a football, which is a slight hiccup in the career of a professional footballer. However, he is not responsible for our current position.
Various other cowards - A sack of shit, the stench of which never seen before in the Premier League. However, they are not responsible for our current position.
Randy fucking Lerner - The knives really need to be out for this utter buffoon. Makes David Brent's management look ground breaking. Has squandered his father's fortune and is currently in the process of burying an institution, which has been central to thousands of people's lives for generations. Cheers, pal. Has managed to avoid abuse due to an absence taken due to disinterest and cowardice. This needs to stop today. Unfurl the banners, ready the chants, because this arsehole needs to be informed exactly where he stands in all of this. That is dead centre. The cause of it all. 100% responsible for our current position. Wanker.
The biggest c**t to have ever been associated with Aston Villa and god knows we've had a few. He has destroyed this club and I fukcing despise him for itThis
The biggest c**t to have ever been associated with Aston Villa and god knows we've had a few. He has destroyed this club and I fukcing despise him for it
Maybe it's just me but, sitting back and taking a long hard look, I'm starting to think maybe Randy is getting hit with all of the criticism when it's not really justified. Randy doesn't pick the team, the manager does. Does Randy even pick the manager? Whilst I agree he gets a lot of stick for being the invisible man (as far as his appearances at VP are concerned) should ALL of the blame for the dire performances on the pitch be laid at his feet?
But...in spite of Randy, Tactics Tim and Garde could have used the resources at their disposal much better. I still don't think being a poor chooser of staff is any justification for the abuse hurled at him. calling him a c*nt, arsehole, wanker, etc., Really? Like I said, maybe it's just me.Welcome to the site! Don't worry, just think of it as people expressing mild disappointment through the medium of violently foul language.
people expressing mild disappointment through the medium of violently foul language.
But...in spite of Randy, Tactics Tim and Garde could have used the resources at their disposal much better. I still don't think being a poor chooser of staff is any justification for the abuse hurled at him. calling him a c*nt, arsehole, wanker, etc., Really? Like I said, maybe it's just me.
So, the likes of Benteke, Delph, Traore, Ayew, Vertout et al...Championship-standard? Other clubs have far smaller budgets than us (Leicester, Swansea - 9th biggest wage bill in the PL, etc) and have done well. The way the money was spent is the fault of the people who have spent the money. Do you really think the abuse posters on here have been firing at Randy is justified?There are volumes of this stuff. I think the swear words are a bit naff when there are perfectly decent adjectives like stupid, aloof,idiotic,half baked, disinterested, incompetance,deluded and useless which do just as well.
I think most of us are well beyond defending Randy Lerner, who has to accept that it has been his costcutting and incompetence (in respect of appointing the correct staff) which has led us to this point.
While calling him a wanker might look a bit daft and overly-personal, I can't help think that you've come to the wrong part of the internet to find level-headed analytical posts about Lerner after Villa have just lost 2-0.
I think most of us are well beyond defending Randy Lerner, who has to accept that it has been his costcutting and incompetence (in respect of appointing the correct staff) which has led us to this point.
While calling him a wanker might look a bit daft and overly-personal, I can't help think that you've come to the wrong part of the internet to find level-headed analytical posts about Lerner after Villa have just lost 2-0.
You may well be right, Stu. I just felt some of the more aggressive verbage was out of order. May be i'm overly sensitive :)
Ha! Can't wait!
The biggest c**t to have ever been associated with Aston Villa and god knows we've had a few. He has destroyed this club and I fukcing despise him for it
You're getting a bit monotonous now.
Lerner gets off far too lightly, distancing himself physically from the total mess he's made has been the smartest thing that buffoon has ever done.
The biggest c**t to have ever been associated with Aston Villa and god knows we've had a few. He has destroyed this club and I fukcing despise him for it
You're getting a bit monotonous now.
A rare quality indeed on this site David
The biggest c**t to have ever been associated with Aston Villa and god knows we've had a few. He has destroyed this club and I fukcing despise him for it
You're getting a bit monotonous now.
A rare quality indeed on this site David
Any time you feel your talents would be more appreciated elsewhere, feel free.
The biggest c**t to have ever been associated with Aston Villa and god knows we've had a few. He has destroyed this club and I fukcing despise him for it
You're getting a bit monotonous now.
A rare quality indeed on this site David
Any time you feel your talents would be more appreciated elsewhere, feel free.
Thank you David, you are as ever a generous and most convivial host
The biggest c**t to have ever been associated with Aston Villa and god knows we've had a few. He has destroyed this club and I fukcing despise him for it
You're getting a bit monotonous now.
A rare quality indeed on this site David
Any time you feel your talents would be more appreciated elsewhere, feel free.
Thank you David, you are as ever a generous and most convivial host
Grow up, eh?
The biggest c**t to have ever been associated with Aston Villa and god knows we've had a few. He has destroyed this club and I fukcing despise him for it
Micah Richards - Certain he was Titanic's captain in a previous life. Brainlessly charges into troubled waters whilst certainly going down with his ship. However, he is not responsible for our current position.
Ciaran Clark - Has managed to blag a Premier League career out of this club. Preying on the nadir of my Villa supporting life like a leech, bleeding the club dry of millions of pounds in wages, whilst being personally responsible for some of the most calamitous defending known to man. However, he is not responsible for our current position.
Leandro Bacuna - Forever wearing the bemused expression of a gormless rabbit in the headlights. Has the first touch of a concrete wellington. However, he is not responbile for our current position.
Rudy Gestede - Makes Heskey look like a Ferrari. Slow, uninterested and can't actually kick a football, which is a slight hiccup in the career of a professional footballer. However, he is not responsible for our current position.
Various other cowards - A sack of shit, the stench of which never seen before in the Premier League. However, they are not responsible for our current position.
Randy fucking Lerner - The knives really need to be out for this utter buffoon. Makes David Brent's management look ground breaking. Has squandered his father's fortune and is currently in the process of burying an institution, which has been central to thousands of people's lives for generations. Cheers, pal. Has managed to avoid abuse due to an absence taken due to disinterest and cowardice. This needs to stop today. Unfurl the banners, ready the chants, because this arsehole needs to be informed exactly where he stands in all of this. That is dead centre. The cause of it all. 100% responsible for our current position. Wanker.
I'd say a lot more, but yeah.The biggest c**t to have ever been associated with Aston Villa and god knows we've had a few. He has destroyed this club and I fukcing despise him for it
Well the club isn't destroyed just yet but I echo the rest of your post. He's sabotaged the club these last 6 years and deserves all the stick he receives and a bit more. I've never known an era like this at Villa, and it's quite unforgivable.
I'd say a lot more, but yeah.The biggest c**t to have ever been associated with Aston Villa and god knows we've had a few. He has destroyed this club and I fukcing despise him for it
Well the club isn't destroyed just yet but I echo the rest of your post. He's sabotaged the club these last 6 years and deserves all the stick he receives and a bit more. I've never known an era like this at Villa, and it's quite unforgivable.
The General was the best thing to happen to the club. Long before I got involved with the Internet (yesterday), people used to tell me how he came on these forums and how some of the posters used to modify their views. Some even fawned around him, I am told. At least he opened up the lines of communication, which to an old trade union man like me, is vitally important. We need the General back.
The General was the best thing to happen to the club. Long before I got involved with the Internet (yesterday), people used to tell me how he came on these forums and how some of the posters used to modify their views. Some even fawned around him, I am told. At least he opened up the lines of communication, which to an old trade union man like me, is vitally important. We need the General back.
The General was the best thing to happen to the club. Long before I got involved with the Internet (yesterday), people used to tell me how he came on these forums and how some of the posters used to modify their views. Some even fawned around him, I am told. At least he opened up the lines of communication, which to an old trade union man like me, is vitally important. We need the General back.
The General was the best thing to happen to the club. Long before I got involved with the Internet (yesterday), people used to tell me how he came on these forums and how some of the posters used to modify their views. Some even fawned around him, I am told. At least he opened up the lines of communication, which to an old trade union man like me, is vitally important. We need the General back.
The General was the best thing to happen to the club. Long before I got involved with the Internet (yesterday), people used to tell me how he came on these forums and how some of the posters used to modify their views. Some even fawned around him, I am told. At least he opened up the lines of communication, which to an old trade union man like me, is vitally important. We need the General back.
But...in spite of Randy, Tactics Tim and Garde could have used the resources at their disposal much better. I still don't think being a poor chooser of staff is any justification for the abuse hurled at him. calling him a c*nt, arsehole, wanker, etc., Really? Like I said, maybe it's just me.It's just you. Anyway come clean and tell us you are Tom Fox's PA?
But...in spite of Randy, Tactics Tim and Garde could have used the resources at their disposal much better. I still don't think being a poor chooser of staff is any justification for the abuse hurled at him. calling him a c*nt, arsehole, wanker, etc., Really? Like I said, maybe it's just me.It's just you. Anyway come clean and tell us you are Tom Fox's PA?
The General was the best thing to happen to the club. Long before I got involved with the Internet (yesterday), people used to tell me how he came on these forums and how some of the posters used to modify their views. Some even fawned around him, I am told. At least he opened up the lines of communication, which to an old trade union man like me, is vitally important. We need the General back.
Too fucking obvious by far.
Under this buffoon we've gone 18 games without a league win. A club record which is made even worse with every week that passes.
Shame on you, Randy Lerner. Shame on you.
An owner that has turned a club that finished regularly in the top 6 to one that has found themselves relegated by Christmas and we think this same buffoon and his cronies will have the nous to bring us straight back upUnder this buffoon we've gone 18 games without a league win. A club record which is made even worse with every week that passes.
Shame on you, Randy Lerner. Shame on you.
I can see that record becoming a lot worse before it's halted.
An owner that has turned a club that finished regularly in the top 6
An owner that has turned a club that finished regularly in the top 6
Once in six seasons before he arrived. Not defending, just sayin'.
An owner that has turned a club that finished regularly in the top 6
Once in six seasons before he arrived. Not defending, just sayin'.
4 top 10 finishes in 6 years.
An owner that has turned a club that finished regularly in the top 6
Once in six seasons before he arrived. Not defending, just sayin'.
4 top 10 finishes in 6 years.
That wasn't what was being said.
An owner that has turned a club that finished regularly in the top 6
Once in six seasons before he arrived. Not defending, just sayin'.
New chairman will be some 'mate' of Randy's. Probably American with no clue about football or some money man who's a fucking pillock and doesn't have his finger on the pulse like Tom Fox.
The new board member? What's the point? Someone Colonel Blinky probably met at this proud history and bright future university that he's involved in.
Both solid, loyal, respectful yes men, with no ounce of football nous.
Dear Mr Lerner, I write to you now because it is all I can do. You will probably never see this and you certainly will not care but you have to know and understand that what you are doing is wrong. You are breaking the hearts of thousands of faithful Villa fans all over the work. You will never find more loyal, passionate fans anywhere, you are destroying them. You are destroying a football club with a massive history. You are tearing apart the very foundations on which the beautiful game was built. Those loyal fans who turn up week in, week out, to pay their hard earned money to watch the team they love are not getting re-payed for that unwavering support. You are breaking our hearts Mr Lerner and you must stop. You must give us back our club. To you it is merely a commodity, to us it is a way of life. To us Aston Villa is EVERYTHING. Think long and hard Mr Lerner. Think about the first time you heard that Holte End roar. Think about those people who leave at 5pm struggling to find an answer. Think about the people who you are destroying. Managers, chairmen, owners, they come and go, Villa fans stay forever, they feel every soul destroying second of every heart breaking game. We deserve better, we DEMAND better. Know this though Mr Lerner, long after you have moved on to destroy another football club, Aston Villa will remain, our pride and passion will not die, we will urge those boys in claret and blue on until the last devastating second. We will rise from the ashes and we will never turn our backs and you Mr Lerner will see for yourself that the wounded lion is the most dangerous, the most savage and you will feel the fury of the Villa faithful. I call upon my fellow Villa fans to stand tall, stand proud, stand together. We may well be written off, we may well be down but we are Villa and we never say die.
I am not sure that any sort of protest will work except for the cathartic experience of venting ones spleen.
It may be a blessing that our demise has come so early in the Season, this gives the club the time to completely prepare for the Championship.
What we do not need now are piecemeal signings that have no longer term benefit or for the club to drift aimlessly for the next 6 months.
All we can hope is that Randy takes this opportunity to make this club fit for purpose.
I certainly would not underestimate the size of the task.I am not sure that any sort of protest will work except for the cathartic experience of venting ones spleen.
It may be a blessing that our demise has come so early in the Season, this gives the club the time to completely prepare for the Championship.
What we do not need now are piecemeal signings that have no longer term benefit or for the club to drift aimlessly for the next 6 months.
All we can hope is that Randy takes this opportunity to make this club fit for purpose.
Blimey, you don't want much do ya?!
It's seems to be repeatedly forgotten here that before Lerner came we were absolutely nail on to go down under Ellis. He's made an utter and total dogs dinner of it, but let's not forget that we were heading for the drop before he arrived and our days of being a force were already a thing of the best.
From 'Nicky Nash' on our FB Page:We're a lion that is sedated.QuoteDear Mr Lerner, I write to you now because it is all I can do. You will probably never see this and you certainly will not care but you have to know and understand that what you are doing is wrong. You are breaking the hearts of thousands of faithful Villa fans all over the work. You will never find more loyal, passionate fans anywhere, you are destroying them. You are destroying a football club with a massive history. You are tearing apart the very foundations on which the beautiful game was built. Those loyal fans who turn up week in, week out, to pay their hard earned money to watch the team they love are not getting re-payed for that unwavering support. You are breaking our hearts Mr Lerner and you must stop. You must give us back our club. To you it is merely a commodity, to us it is a way of life. To us Aston Villa is EVERYTHING. Think long and hard Mr Lerner. Think about the first time you heard that Holte End roar. Think about those people who leave at 5pm struggling to find an answer. Think about the people who you are destroying. Managers, chairmen, owners, they come and go, Villa fans stay forever, they feel every soul destroying second of every heart breaking game. We deserve better, we DEMAND better. Know this though Mr Lerner, long after you have moved on to destroy another football club, Aston Villa will remain, our pride and passion will not die, we will urge those boys in claret and blue on until the last devastating second. We will rise from the ashes and we will never turn our backs and you Mr Lerner will see for yourself that the wounded lion is the most dangerous, the most savage and you will feel the fury of the Villa faithful. I call upon my fellow Villa fans to stand tall, stand proud, stand together. We may well be written off, we may well be down but we are Villa and we never say die.
It's seems to be repeatedly forgotten here that before Lerner came we were absolutely nail on to go down under Ellis. He's made an utter and total dogs dinner of it, but let's not forget that we were heading for the drop before he arrived and our days of being a force were already a thing of the best.
I certainly would not underestimate the size of the task.I am not sure that any sort of protest will work except for the cathartic experience of venting ones spleen.
It may be a blessing that our demise has come so early in the Season, this gives the club the time to completely prepare for the Championship.
What we do not need now are piecemeal signings that have no longer term benefit or for the club to drift aimlessly for the next 6 months.
All we can hope is that Randy takes this opportunity to make this club fit for purpose.
Blimey, you don't want much do ya?!
If he really wants to show one final act of philanthropy he could do similar but less than what the Bolton owner is prepared to do and take yet another bath and sell the club for the last known net debt figure around £102m.i doubt he would get any takers at that price, you could pick up any Championship club for £30million.
That figure of course being reduced by £90m the amount he converted from debt to equity last year. I'm not saying he should of course but it might expedite a sale but I've no idea what the complications of such a deal are. Neither am I sure I'd do the same in his position having already lost a shed load of money.
From 'Nicky Nash' on our FB Page:QuoteAston Villa will remain, our pride and passion will not die, we will urge those boys in claret and blue on until the last devastating second. We will rise from the ashes and we will never turn our backs... but we are Villa and we never say die.
The huge problem is that every year we are out of the Prem the PL clubs will get significantly Richer, just Surviving brings in £110 million in TV money alone. So those falling down will have a massive advantage than those that are there.
This is really scary stuff now.
Even thinking that those teams will be our rivals again is a pipe dream. I am not sure that a lot of people realise the enormity of this. I can also see a time when the Premier League will vote out relegation.The huge problem is that every year we are out of the Prem the PL clubs will get significantly Richer, just Surviving brings in £110 million in TV money alone. So those falling down will have a massive advantage than those that are there.
This is really scary stuff now.
Plus you've got all our 'old rivals' like Spurs and Liverpool either building new grounds or significantly developing their current ones to increase capacity. I don't think we've even begun to realise the scale of the legacy that this idiot will have left us with, long after he has forgotten all about us
Even thinking that those teams will be our rivals again is a pipe dream. I am not sure that a lot of people realise the enormity of this. I can also see a time when the Premier League will vote out relegation.The huge problem is that every year we are out of the Prem the PL clubs will get significantly Richer, just Surviving brings in £110 million in TV money alone. So those falling down will have a massive advantage than those that are there.
This is really scary stuff now.
Plus you've got all our 'old rivals' like Spurs and Liverpool either building new grounds or significantly developing their current ones to increase capacity. I don't think we've even begun to realise the scale of the legacy that this idiot will have left us with, long after he has forgotten all about us
Spot on. Irrepairable damage being done here and the long term future of the club as a remotely competitive club being washed away. Fuck everyone at the club. Fuck them all c***s.Even thinking that those teams will be our rivals again is a pipe dream. I am not sure that a lot of people realise the enormity of this. I can also see a time when the Premier League will vote out relegation.The huge problem is that every year we are out of the Prem the PL clubs will get significantly Richer, just Surviving brings in £110 million in TV money alone. So those falling down will have a massive advantage than those that are there.
This is really scary stuff now.
Plus you've got all our 'old rivals' like Spurs and Liverpool either building new grounds or significantly developing their current ones to increase capacity. I don't think we've even begun to realise the scale of the legacy that this idiot will have left us with, long after he has forgotten all about us
I totally agree CL. Us going down is only the start of it all, this will have huge implications and it's quite likely that we will never catch up again. Lerner will become more or less the most significant person in Aston Villa's history for all the wrong reasons. Still, nice man, he means well you know and he's really quite harmless. One wouldn't like to speak ill of him eh...
It's seems to be repeatedly forgotten here that before Lerner came we were absolutely nail on to go down under Ellis. He's made an utter and total dogs dinner of it, but let's not forget that we were heading for the drop before he arrived and our days of being a force were already a thing of the best.
I am sure someone will point out we are exaggerating, just like all though this season it's only October, it's only November, we are only 5 points from safety crap.Now it's we will piss it in the Championship bollocks without any idea what is written in those players contracts that have been negotiated by the idiots that got us here. Oh yes nothing to worry about, move along.Even thinking that those teams will be our rivals again is a pipe dream. I am not sure that a lot of people realise the enormity of this. I can also see a time when the Premier League will vote out relegation.The huge problem is that every year we are out of the Prem the PL clubs will get significantly Richer, just Surviving brings in £110 million in TV money alone. So those falling down will have a massive advantage than those that are there.
This is really scary stuff now.
Plus you've got all our 'old rivals' like Spurs and Liverpool either building new grounds or significantly developing their current ones to increase capacity. I don't think we've even begun to realise the scale of the legacy that this idiot will have left us with, long after he has forgotten all about us
I totally agree CL. Us going down is only the start of it all, this will have huge implications and it's quite likely that we will never catch up again. Lerner will become more or less the most significant person in Aston Villa's history for all the wrong reasons. Still, nice man, he means well you know and he's really quite harmless. One wouldn't like to speak ill of him eh...
Yep, the smalltime,clueless people running the club allowing players to dictate exactly what they want in their contracts Delph being a prime example and then allowing him to spout a load of shit to the fans.I am sure someone will point out we are exaggerating, just like all though this season it's only October, it's only November, we are only 5 points from safety crap.Now it's we will piss it in the Championship bollocks without any idea what is written in those players contracts that have been negotiated by the idiots that got us here. Oh yes nothing to worry about, move along.Even thinking that those teams will be our rivals again is a pipe dream. I am not sure that a lot of people realise the enormity of this. I can also see a time when the Premier League will vote out relegation.The huge problem is that every year we are out of the Prem the PL clubs will get significantly Richer, just Surviving brings in £110 million in TV money alone. So those falling down will have a massive advantage than those that are there.
This is really scary stuff now.
Plus you've got all our 'old rivals' like Spurs and Liverpool either building new grounds or significantly developing their current ones to increase capacity. I don't think we've even begun to realise the scale of the legacy that this idiot will have left us with, long after he has forgotten all about us
I totally agree CL. Us going down is only the start of it all, this will have huge implications and it's quite likely that we will never catch up again. Lerner will become more or less the most significant person in Aston Villa's history for all the wrong reasons. Still, nice man, he means well you know and he's really quite harmless. One wouldn't like to speak ill of him eh...
From 'Nicky Nash' on our FB Page:QuoteAston Villa will remain, our pride and passion will not die, we will urge those boys in claret and blue on until the last devastating second. We will rise from the ashes and we will never turn our backs... but we are Villa and we never say die.
Except when we need some chips and curry sauce 25 minutes into the first half. Or when "beating the traffic" 15 minutes from the end. Or sitting there, numb, in shock at how shit we are. ;-)
Questions for Mr Lerner... In August 2006 Randy Lerner gave us all a scarf that read "Proud History Bright Future". The proud history he referred to was, without doubt, a fact. However, I can't help wondering what he had in mind regarding the "bright future". In fact the performance under his ownership has even gone some way to diluting that proud history. In terms of his vision of a "bright future" I'm quite curious. He's clearly a successful business man and that is not achieved without a strategy and vision... So in his mind promising us a "bright future" was based on a clear and robust strategy and the 9 game unbeaten run at the start of that season certainly gave us hope that he was likely to deliver on that promise. 9 years on we are in the humiliating position of having a points tally almost unrivalled in Premier League history as we go into the Christmas period. Thus requiring a second half of the season performance on a par with a club achieving a top 6 finish just to save us from relegation, so let's face it we are probably going to be playing in the championship next season. Of course he could never compete with the big money spending at the likes of Chelsea, Man City etc but we all look at the position of genuinely lesser clubs than ours (Leicester, Watford, Crystal Palace, Stoke etc) all with fewer resources and a smaller fan base but are living their own "bright future". Where did it all go wrong Mr Lerner? Why did you make such a promise? What was the strategy in August 2006? Why can lesser clubs perform better than ours year in year out? What is your view of our future now (assume it's not "bright")? What is the strategy for the sale of the club now given that the new TV revenue is unlikely to be on the cards? In 2016 you will have achieved 10 years as owner... What can we expect for the next 10 years? A FRUSTRATED AND HUMILIATED LOYAL CUSTOMER....!!!!!
From 'Ken Armistead' on our FB Page:QuoteQuestions for Mr Lerner... In August 2006 Randy Lerner gave us all a scarf that read "Proud History Bright Future". The proud history he referred to was, without doubt, a fact. However, I can't help wondering what he had in mind regarding the "bright future". In fact the performance under his ownership has even gone some way to diluting that proud history. In terms of his vision of a "bright future" I'm quite curious. He's clearly a successful business man and that is not achieved without a strategy and vision... So in his mind promising us a "bright future" was based on a clear and robust strategy and the 9 game unbeaten run at the start of that season certainly gave us hope that he was likely to deliver on that promise. 9 years on we are in the humiliating position of having a points tally almost unrivalled in Premier League history as we go into the Christmas period. Thus requiring a second half of the season performance on a par with a club achieving a top 6 finish just to save us from relegation, so let's face it we are probably going to be playing in the championship next season. Of course he could never compete with the big money spending at the likes of Chelsea, Man City etc but we all look at the position of genuinely lesser clubs than ours (Leicester, Watford, Crystal Palace, Stoke etc) all with fewer resources and a smaller fan base but are living their own "bright future". Where did it all go wrong Mr Lerner? Why did you make such a promise? What was the strategy in August 2006? Why can lesser clubs perform better than ours year in year out? What is your view of our future now (assume it's not "bright")? What is the strategy for the sale of the club now given that the new TV revenue is unlikely to be on the cards? In 2016 you will have achieved 10 years as owner... What can we expect for the next 10 years? A FRUSTRATED AND HUMILIATED LOYAL CUSTOMER....!!!!!
The huge problem is that every year we are out of the Prem the PL clubs will get significantly Richer, just Surviving brings in £110 million in TV money alone. So those falling down will have a massive advantage than those that are there.
This is really scary stuff now.
From 'Ken Armistead' on our FB Page:QuoteQuestions for Mr Lerner... In August 2006 Randy Lerner gave us all a scarf that read "Proud History Bright Future". The proud history he referred to was, without doubt, a fact. However, I can't help wondering what he had in mind regarding the "bright future". In fact the performance under his ownership has even gone some way to diluting that proud history. In terms of his vision of a "bright future" I'm quite curious. He's clearly a successful business man and that is not achieved without a strategy and vision... So in his mind promising us a "bright future" was based on a clear and robust strategy and the 9 game unbeaten run at the start of that season certainly gave us hope that he was likely to deliver on that promise. 9 years on we are in the humiliating position of having a points tally almost unrivalled in Premier League history as we go into the Christmas period. Thus requiring a second half of the season performance on a par with a club achieving a top 6 finish just to save us from relegation, so let's face it we are probably going to be playing in the championship next season. Of course he could never compete with the big money spending at the likes of Chelsea, Man City etc but we all look at the position of genuinely lesser clubs than ours (Leicester, Watford, Crystal Palace, Stoke etc) all with fewer resources and a smaller fan base but are living their own "bright future". Where did it all go wrong Mr Lerner? Why did you make such a promise? What was the strategy in August 2006? Why can lesser clubs perform better than ours year in year out? What is your view of our future now (assume it's not "bright")? What is the strategy for the sale of the club now given that the new TV revenue is unlikely to be on the cards? In 2016 you will have achieved 10 years as owner... What can we expect for the next 10 years? A FRUSTRATED AND HUMILIATED LOYAL CUSTOMER....!!!!!
CHORUS:
My tea's gone cold
I'm wondering why I got out of bed at all
The morning rain clouds up my window and I can't see at all
And even if I could it'd all be grey
But your picture on my wall
It reminds me that it's not so bad
It's not so bad
I hear Randy Lerner has brought out a book titled "How to Make a Small Fortune".
Chapter One: Start with a Big Fortune.
I wonder if we are his equivalent of owning a yacht. The saying being that the quickest way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire who buys a yacht.I hear Randy Lerner has brought out a book titled "How to Make a Small Fortune".
Chapter One: Start with a Big Fortune.
Bravo!
I hear Randy Lerner has brought out a book titled "How to Make a Small Fortune".
Chapter One: Start with a Big Fortune.
I did the same gag about Scottish landowners a few pages back...
To the tune of London bridge is falling down.
Randy Lerner is a nose, is a nose, is a nose.
Randy Lerner is a nose, he hates Villa
Fucked us up and ran away, ran away, ran away.
Fucked us up and ran away,
he's a bluenose.
To the tune of London bridge is falling down.
Randy Lerner is a nose, is a nose, is a nose.
Randy Lerner is a nose, he hates Villa
Fucked us up and ran away, ran away, ran away.
Fucked us up and ran away,
he's a bluenose.
that is absolutely shit
I'd join in if I were to hear it sung anywhere.To the tune of London bridge is falling down.
Randy Lerner is a nose, is a nose, is a nose.
Randy Lerner is a nose, he hates Villa
Fucked us up and ran away, ran away, ran away.
Fucked us up and ran away,
he's a bluenose.
that is absolutely shit
I'd expect to hear Bluenoses singing that, not Villa.
Let's just hope he hires this new chairman sharpish and takes so good advice in his choice.
With all the arsenal connections at the club, the David Dein for chairman idea might not be that fanciful.
Wiki suggests that he is still involved in football but with no permanent role. Probably got enough cash to buy in too, especially if relegated.
not another Arsenal reject surely!
I think we've reached a point where the only people prepared to work under Lerner would have to be mad. If they weren't my club, I wouldn't touch Villa with a barge pole. A proper basket case of a football club
David Dein is an extremely shrewd and very clever man. He wouldn't stop at VP for a piss as he drove past on the M6, let alone work here.
I think we've reached a point where the only people prepared to work under Lerner would have to be mad. If they weren't my club, I wouldn't touch Villa with a barge pole. A proper basket case of a football club
I think we've reached a point where the only people prepared to work under Lerner would have to be mad. If they weren't my club, I wouldn't touch Villa with a barge pole. A proper basket case of a football club
Nor me, I think you are absolutely right. I'd have almost no respect for anyone joining the club to work for Lerner because I'd wonder why they hadn't sussed out what a gormless twat he is. Mind you, I guess if the money is great, which no doubt it is, then why worry about that!
Stranger things have happened. No one in their right mind would have wanted to manage Villa circa 1987. No one other than a certain Graham Taylor looking for his next career challenge (or "project" as it would be called now).
As many people have remarked for so long as I can remember, the person who gets it right at Villa Park will tap into something very special and unique. We are currently in a trough that will almost certainly get worse before it gets better, but perhaps not much worse. The challenge of turning that round might actually appeal to the vanity of someone like David Dein.
David Dein is an extremely shrewd and very clever man. He wouldn't stop at VP for a piss as he drove past on the M6, let alone work here.
Exactly. Why would he want to ruin his CV by working for the Howard Hughes of football owners.
I think we've reached a point where the only people prepared to work under Lerner would have to be mad. If they weren't my club, I wouldn't touch Villa with a barge pole. A proper basket case of a football club
Nor me, I think you are absolutely right. I'd have almost no respect for anyone joining the club to work for Lerner because I'd wonder why they hadn't sussed out what a gormless twat he is. Mind you, I guess if the money is great, which no doubt it is, then why worry about that!
Us, Newcastle and Sunderland deserve to be the bottom three sides. Three clubs who have stunk the Premier League out for years.
No, I fear we could drop further. More teams have stayed down than come back up 1st time of asking. With such poor points total we have and the players, people running the club we could do a Wolves.
Also, Remi to be gone before long? We just carry on losing....
I hate the fucking sight of him.
I fucking despise this wanker and what he has done to our club, I really hope when the moron finally manages to sell us he loses millions on it and ends up fucking bankrupt.....Just fuck off out of our club.He will lose millions, he won't go bankrupt.
I fucking despise this wanker and what he has done to our club, I really hope when the moron finally manages to sell us he loses millions on it and ends up fucking bankrupt.....Just fuck off out of our club.He will lose millions, he won't go bankrupt.
Now it's confirmed he has turned us into a team that's incapable of beating anyone in our division I think it's time we heard from him. What's the plan, randy?
I hope the 'will only sell to the right buyer' nonsense will now disappear. He's done as much damage as the fur coat twat at the blose (not Karen Brady)
Now it's confirmed he has turned us into a team that's incapable of beating anyone in our division I think it's time we heard from him. What's the plan, randy?
A very special one. Slowly but surely all the players we've signed have had relegation clauses inserted in to their contracts the last half a decade. Anyone without one has been sold. We aim to go down, we are making sure it happens asap just in case a few other clubs implode.
Fuck face will then sell the club to whoever ponies up some cash because he can't be arsed holding on any longer and having to attend 6 monthly face to face meetings with anyone to do with the club.
When's the Chairman and new board member being announced? Not that it matters, we are sunk, just interested to see what the word imminent means that prick Fox.
[/quote
Its scheduled for the day after the 'Bright Future.'
Was watching west ham today and was truly envious of their ownership and future prospects. I really fear for the future. Being overtaken and left behind by all and sundry
Was watching west ham today and was truly envious of their ownership and future prospects. I really fear for the future. Being overtaken and left behind by all and sundry
I wouldn't ever be envious of the assorted pornographers that comprise West Ham's ownership and their future prospects that are based on the scandalous way that the tax-payer is funding their new home.
I do though agree with the general observation that we have been overtaken by a multitude of clubs who historically aren't fit to lace our boots, yet have understood what is required to be a well functioning Premier League without the need for Chelsea/Man City type investment.
According to Tom Fox were building something special here.
According to Tom Fox were building something special here.
We are the worlds biggest shithouse of a club. The only couple of good things I can see about us on the outside is the support and the ground, apart from that we have nothing.
Enough is enough. If Lerner is still running this club in twelve months time we will be bottom of the Championship. How on earth he is getting away with this without serious protests I do not know.
Yawn.... not fit to lace our boots? It's not the 1890s of 1970s and hasn't been for a good whil weve done nothing of note for nearly 20 years.Was watching west ham today and was truly envious of their ownership and future prospects. I really fear for the future. Being overtaken and left behind by all and sundry
I wouldn't ever be envious of the assorted pornographers that comprise West Ham's ownership and their future prospects that are based on the scandalous way that the tax-payer is funding their new home.
I do though agree with the general observation that we have been overtaken by a multitude of clubs who historically aren't fit to lace our boots, yet have understood what is required to be a well functioning Premier League without the need for Chelsea/Man City type investment.
Enough is enough. If Lerner is still running this club in twelve months time we will be bottom of the Championship. How on earth he is getting away with this without serious protests I do not know.
Enough is enough. If Lerner is still running this club in twelve months time we will be bottom of the Championship. How on earth he is getting away with this without serious protests I do not know.
Yawn.... not fit to lace our boots? It's not the 1890s of 1970s and hasn't been for a good whil weve done nothing of note for nearly 20 years.Was watching west ham today and was truly envious of their ownership and future prospects. I really fear for the future. Being overtaken and left behind by all and sundry
I wouldn't ever be envious of the assorted pornographers that comprise West Ham's ownership and their future prospects that are based on the scandalous way that the tax-payer is funding their new home.
I do though agree with the general observation that we have been overtaken by a multitude of clubs who historically aren't fit to lace our boots, yet have understood what is required to be a well functioning Premier League without the need for Chelsea/Man City type investment.
Football Focus mention a depressing stat today. During 2015 Watford accumulated more Premiership points than us and we had a five month head start!
Football Focus mention a depressing stat today. During 2015 Watford accumulated more Premiership points than us and we had a five month head start!
Another sorry stat.
This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
He tends to go for the Bullshit Salesmen types, the ones who talk about projects, false narratives, building something special, hold on to your seats. In other words cliche ridden fuckwits.This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
He tends to go for the Bullshit Salesmen types, the ones who talk about projects, false narratives, building something special, hold on to your seats. In other words cliche ridden fuckwits.This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
Enough is enough. If Lerner is still running this club in twelve months time we will be bottom of the Championship. How on earth he is getting away with this without serious protests I do not know.
This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
It'll probably someone totally random and unconnected.
Sarah Millican, Chaka Demus, Claire Balding, Leonard Bernstein. That sort.
This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
It'll probably someone totally random and unconnected.
Sarah Millican, Chaka Demus, Claire Balding, Leonard Bernstein. That sort.
This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
It'll probably someone totally random and unconnected.
Sarah Millican, Chaka Demus, Claire Balding, Leonard Bernstein. That sort.
I had to Google to check if Leonard Bernstein was actually dead or whether he was a Kirk Douglas/Doris Day type who you assume must have died 20 years ago but are actually still alive.
He's dead.
Mind you, when you think about what he's spent and lost and is about to lose going down, its mind boggling. He literally could have grabbed some bloke off the street to run the club and lost less money. It's like he had some sort of Brewster's milllions thing going on.Still won't dent the Lerner fortune. As the son of a hugely successful man, it's unlikely that he has ever really had to work at anything or put it all on the line. People like Lerner are as poorly qualified to pass the Fit & Proper Person test as the thug that owns Chelsea - both deeply unsuitable to be custodian of a famous football club but for different reasons.
Then he wouldn't be the owner.Mind you, when you think about what he's spent and lost and is about to lose going down, its mind boggling. He literally could have grabbed some bloke off the street to run the club and lost less money. It's like he had some sort of Brewster's milllions thing going on.Still won't dent the Lerner fortune. As the son of a hugely successful man, it's unlikely that he has ever really had to work at anything or put it all on the line. People like Lerner are as poorly qualified to pass the Fit & Proper Person test as the thug that owns Chelsea - both deeply unsuitable to be custodian of a famous football club but for different reasons.
Had the entire Lerner fortune been at risk due to our relegation then I am sure that we would be in a different position.
who the fk are we going to be owned by this time whenever
scary isn't it?
we need lerners money but when he jumps ship we get who?who the fk are we going to be owned by this time whenever
scary isn't it?
What dear?
This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
It'll probably someone totally random and unconnected.
Sarah Millican, Chaka Demus, Claire Balding, Leonard Bernstein. That sort.
I had to Google to check if Leonard Bernstein was actually dead or whether he was a Kirk Douglas/Doris Day type who you assume must have died 20 years ago but are actually still alive.
He's dead.
There are some internet rumours of Lerner's 18 year old son joining the Board.....
Enough is enough. If Lerner is still running this club in twelve months time we will be bottom of the Championship. How on earth he is getting away with this without serious protests I do not know.
Absolutely this.
Enough is enough. If Lerner is still running this club in twelve months time we will be bottom of the Championship. How on earth he is getting away with this without serious protests I do not know.
Absolutely this.
Because Doug at least would show up and face the music.
If you want to make your feelings about Lerner known, you'll need to either fly to Cleveland or shout very loudly.
This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
It'll probably someone totally random and unconnected.
Sarah Millican, Chaka Demus, Claire Balding, Leonard Bernstein. That sort.
I had to Google to check if Leonard Bernstein was actually dead or whether he was a Kirk Douglas/Doris Day type who you assume must have died 20 years ago but are actually still alive.
He's dead.
Not enough to rule him out, though.
This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
It'll probably someone totally random and unconnected.
Sarah Millican, Chaka Demus, Claire Balding, Leonard Bernstein. That sort.
Chaka Demus would be a good shout if he can work alongside Pliers. What's Bitty McLean up to these days?
I know Keith Harris is no longer with us but I'd like to throw Orville's hat into the ring.
He would brighten the place up and offer sound management skills and strong leadership as well.
This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
It'll probably someone totally random and unconnected.
Sarah Millican, Chaka Demus, Claire Balding, Leonard Bernstein. That sort.
This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
It'll probably someone totally random and unconnected.
Sarah Millican, Chaka Demus, Claire Balding, Leonard Bernstein. That sort.
Somebody out of their depth, it's the Lerner way. Then they take the flak, get moved on and some other sucker with a new 'plan' arrives yet the main culprit doesn't face the music.
I know Keith Harris is no longer with us but I'd like to throw Orville's hat into the ring.
He would brighten the place up and offer sound management skills and strong leadership as well.
This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
It'll probably someone totally random and unconnected.
Sarah Millican, Chaka Demus, Claire Balding, Leonard Bernstein. That sort.
Somebody out of their depth, it's the Lerner way. Then they take the flak, get moved on and some other sucker with a new 'plan' arrives yet the main culprit doesn't face the music.
AKA, somebody cheap.
What I struggle to understand, why the hell didn't he appoint a Pulis-type manager?
Cheapish option, secure the business. Bonkers.
Not like he had to worry about popularity.
What I struggle to understand, why the hell didn't he appoint a Pulis-type manager?
Cheapish option, secure the business. Bonkers.
Not like he had to worry about popularity.
Yep tries to be far to clever when he quite clearly isn't.What I struggle to understand, why the hell didn't he appoint a Pulis-type manager?
Cheapish option, secure the business. Bonkers.
Not like he had to worry about popularity.
This will be mocked but there is a weak minded American exceptionalism flavour to every one of his hiring decisions. It's got to be left field, makes a good story stuff or he's not interested. Pulis is not a young maverick, not being coaxed out of retirement, not untested in the league, therefore too uninteresting.
What I struggle to understand, why the hell didn't he appoint a Pulis-type manager?
Cheapish option, secure the business. Bonkers.
Not like he had to worry about popularity.
This will be mocked but there is a weak minded American exceptionalism flavour to every one of his hiring decisions. It's got to be left field, makes a good story stuff or he's not interested. Pulis is not a young maverick, not being coaxed out of retirement, not untested in the league, therefore too uninteresting.
Been thinking about our demise and the cause. I don't think Lerner is a bad guy, but I think he has shown himself to be terrible at employing people who are good at their jobs. Basically, he's not a very good judge of character.This is as you say common and without doubt has happened here, the most important recruit is the first one, get that wrong and you are in trouble, he has had several attempts at CEO and Manager and got it wrong time and time again.
So I think what has happened is that for the last five or so years, he has employed a lot of incompetent people. Now, these incompetents have all actually and secretly known their limitations and realize that they've been a bit jammy getting such cushy jobs. Knowing this and wanting to cover it up, they've also proceeded to hire completely incompetent subordinates, and these in turn have done the same and so on and so on.
I've seen it happen in other businesses and notably schools. Someone gets lucky becoming headmaster/headmistress and then not wanting to be threatened by anyone more competent continues to employ and promote underqualified staff. It's alarming how quickly a business or a school's fortunes can decline when this happens.
I think when this happens, the only way to reverse it is a complete overhaul, starting at the very top.
Any news on this chairman?
What I struggle to understand, why the hell didn't he appoint a Pulis-type manager?
Cheapish option, secure the business. Bonkers.
Not like he had to worry about popularity.
This will be mocked but there is a weak minded American exceptionalism flavour to every one of his hiring decisions. It's got to be left field, makes a good story stuff or he's not interested. Pulis is not a young maverick, not being coaxed out of retirement, not untested in the league, therefore too uninteresting.
I think there is indeed an element of wanting to be perceived as thinking differently.
Any news on this chairman?
Think we've decided it's Bitty McLean. Chaka Demus and Pliers was never going to work.
Nail hit on head by Matt Law there. Too many people not qualified to do the job, poor treatment of people like Graham Taylor and Steve Stride.
Lerner and his gestapo-like board deserve everything they will get from relegation.
Nail hit on head by Matt Law there. Too many people not qualified to do the job, poor treatment of people like Graham Taylor and Steve Stride.
Lerner and his gestapo-like board deserve everything they will get from relegation.
Been a while since we had a Godwin's Law transgression to lighten the mood.
Applogies if posted elsewhere:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10118235/aston-villa-getting-what-they-deserve-says-matt-law
Applogies if posted elsewhere:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10118235/aston-villa-getting-what-they-deserve-says-matt-law
What a lot of posters and journalists have been saying for a long time. He is spot on with those remarks. It seems to be as though almost all villa commentators have identified Lerner as the main problem at Aston Villa.
Applogies if posted elsewhere:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10118235/aston-villa-getting-what-they-deserve-says-matt-law
What a lot of posters and journalists have been saying for a long time. He is spot on with those remarks. It seems to be as though almost all villa commentators have identified Lerner as the main problem at Aston Villa.
To be fair, you don't need to be Hercule Poirot to realise it.
Any news on this chairman?
Think we've decided it's Bitty McLean. Chaka Demus and Pliers was never going to work.
Bernie Madoff? He would be able to generate some additional income in the short term.
We could appoint Donald Trump as chairman and still couldn't be more ridiculed and pitied than we are already.To be honest I'm not seeing the "ridiculed and pitied" thing yet.
This new chairman, it's the General isn't it?
I suggested this a week or so ago, I think I might actually cry if this happens. Even if it isn't, it will be someone who knows fuck all about football and has spent a career in timber framed building construction or time share sales such is the fuckwittery of Lerner.
It'll probably someone totally random and unconnected.
Sarah Millican, Chaka Demus, Claire Balding, Leonard Bernstein. That sort.
General Charles Krulak says Aston Villa will summon the spirit of the US Marines to escape the drop
Home Garde told: Don’t panic!
GENERAL Charles Krulak says Aston Villa will summon the spirit of the US Marines to escape the drop.
The rock-bottom Midlands outfit are marooned on eight points — a whopping 11 adrift of safety.
And they have had more managers than wins this season!
Tim Sherwood at least guided Villa to a 1-0 victory at Bournemouth on the opening day of the Premier League season.
Following Sherwood’s sacking, new boss Remi Garde has picked up just four points from nine games.
But board member Krulak — reclusive owner Randy Lerner’s right-hand man — claims Villa should draw inspiration from his own glittering military career.
The 73-year-old was a commander in the first Gulf War and also served in Vietnam.
He told SunSport: “I faced way bigger 'losing battles' than this — and won them.
“You can’t tell me this is impossible. Three wins in a row and we are back in the mix.
“That’s what Randy believes and what everyone at the Villa believes. The day you don’t believe is the day you quit.
“Let’s just look at Desert Storm. It was 4am and we were standing next to minefields separating Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. There were trenches filled with gas, massive artillery ready to rain down on us and the threat of chemical attack.
“My next in command looked at me and said, ‘How are we gonna get through this?’
“I said, ‘We’re gonna do it, we’re gonna go through this like a knife through butter’.
“It’s easy to give up but you can’t do that. We fought our way through those minefields and the rest is history.
“Never forget that Randy’s father was also in the US Marines and he shares these values, these beliefs.”
A belief in miracles would probably be handy right now.
Villa have gone 19 games without a Premier League win and still need four points to pass Derby’s record low of 11 points during a Prem season, set in 2008.
There are suspicions Villa will keep their powder dry in this month’s transfer window and save their money for the Championship.
But Krulak added: “I speak to Randy almost every day.
“He is a man of high values and integrity — the equal of anyone I have ever known.
“His word is his bond. Nobody has their sights set on anything other than staying up and Randy is backing the manager 100 per cent.”
From The Sun. Hilarious witticisms comparing Villa with the the U.S. military omitted.
The Sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/6841548/General-Charles-Krulak-says-Aston-Villa-will-summon-the-spirit-of-the-US-Marines-to-escape-the-drop.html?CMP=spklr-_-S9DreamTeam-_-TWITTER-_-TheSunFootball-_-20160105-_-Sport-_-323297728-_-Imageandlink)QuoteGeneral Charles Krulak says Aston Villa will summon the spirit of the US Marines to escape the drop
Home Garde told: Don’t panic!
GENERAL Charles Krulak says Aston Villa will summon the spirit of the US Marines to escape the drop.
The rock-bottom Midlands outfit are marooned on eight points — a whopping 11 adrift of safety.
And they have had more managers than wins this season!
Tim Sherwood at least guided Villa to a 1-0 victory at Bournemouth on the opening day of the Premier League season.
Following Sherwood’s sacking, new boss Remi Garde has picked up just four points from nine games.
But board member Krulak — reclusive owner Randy Lerner’s right-hand man — claims Villa should draw inspiration from his own glittering military career.
The 73-year-old was a commander in the first Gulf War and also served in Vietnam.
He told SunSport: “I faced way bigger 'losing battles' than this — and won them.
“You can’t tell me this is impossible. Three wins in a row and we are back in the mix.
“That’s what Randy believes and what everyone at the Villa believes. The day you don’t believe is the day you quit.
“Let’s just look at Desert Storm. It was 4am and we were standing next to minefields separating Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. There were trenches filled with gas, massive artillery ready to rain down on us and the threat of chemical attack.
“My next in command looked at me and said, ‘How are we gonna get through this?’
“I said, ‘We’re gonna do it, we’re gonna go through this like a knife through butter’.
“It’s easy to give up but you can’t do that. We fought our way through those minefields and the rest is history.
“Never forget that Randy’s father was also in the US Marines and he shares these values, these beliefs.”
A belief in miracles would probably be handy right now.
Villa have gone 19 games without a Premier League win and still need four points to pass Derby’s record low of 11 points during a Prem season, set in 2008.
There are suspicions Villa will keep their powder dry in this month’s transfer window and save their money for the Championship.
But Krulak added: “I speak to Randy almost every day.
“He is a man of high values and integrity — the equal of anyone I have ever known.
“His word is his bond. Nobody has their sights set on anything other than staying up and Randy is backing the manager 100 per cent.”
From The Sun. Hilarious witticisms comparing Villa with the the U.S. military omitted.
The Sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/6841548/General-Charles-Krulak-says-Aston-Villa-will-summon-the-spirit-of-the-US-Marines-to-escape-the-drop.html?CMP=spklr-_-S9DreamTeam-_-TWITTER-_-TheSunFootball-_-20160105-_-Sport-_-323297728-_-Imageandlink)QuoteGeneral Charles Krulak says Aston Villa will summon the spirit of the US Marines to escape the drop
Home Garde told: Don’t panic!
GENERAL Charles Krulak says Aston Villa will summon the spirit of the US Marines to escape the drop.
The rock-bottom Midlands outfit are marooned on eight points — a whopping 11 adrift of safety.
And they have had more managers than wins this season!
Tim Sherwood at least guided Villa to a 1-0 victory at Bournemouth on the opening day of the Premier League season.
Following Sherwood’s sacking, new boss Remi Garde has picked up just four points from nine games.
But board member Krulak — reclusive owner Randy Lerner’s right-hand man — claims Villa should draw inspiration from his own glittering military career.
The 73-year-old was a commander in the first Gulf War and also served in Vietnam.
He told SunSport: “I faced way bigger 'losing battles' than this — and won them.
“You can’t tell me this is impossible. Three wins in a row and we are back in the mix.
“That’s what Randy believes and what everyone at the Villa believes. The day you don’t believe is the day you quit.
“Let’s just look at Desert Storm. It was 4am and we were standing next to minefields separating Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. There were trenches filled with gas, massive artillery ready to rain down on us and the threat of chemical attack.
“My next in command looked at me and said, ‘How are we gonna get through this?’
“I said, ‘We’re gonna do it, we’re gonna go through this like a knife through butter’.
“It’s easy to give up but you can’t do that. We fought our way through those minefields and the rest is history.
“Never forget that Randy’s father was also in the US Marines and he shares these values, these beliefs.”
A belief in miracles would probably be handy right now.
Villa have gone 19 games without a Premier League win and still need four points to pass Derby’s record low of 11 points during a Prem season, set in 2008.
There are suspicions Villa will keep their powder dry in this month’s transfer window and save their money for the Championship.
But Krulak added: “I speak to Randy almost every day.
“He is a man of high values and integrity — the equal of anyone I have ever known.
“His word is his bond. Nobody has their sights set on anything other than staying up and Randy is backing the manager 100 per cent.”
What planet are these Villa executives on? Really?
What planet are these Villa executives on? Really?
It beggars belief. Just when you think it can't get any more embarassing, Villa's very own 'Uncle Albert' pops up with one of his war stories. Is he even still involved with the club in any capacity?
From The Sun. Hilarious witticisms comparing Villa with the the U.S. military omitted.
The Sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/6841548/General-Charles-Krulak-says-Aston-Villa-will-summon-the-spirit-of-the-US-Marines-to-escape-the-drop.html?CMP=spklr-_-S9DreamTeam-_-TWITTER-_-TheSunFootball-_-20160105-_-Sport-_-323297728-_-Imageandlink)QuoteGeneral Charles Krulak says Aston Villa will summon the spirit of the US Marines to escape the drop
Home Garde told: Don’t panic!
GENERAL Charles Krulak says Aston Villa will summon the spirit of the US Marines to escape the drop.
The rock-bottom Midlands outfit are marooned on eight points — a whopping 11 adrift of safety.
And they have had more managers than wins this season!
Tim Sherwood at least guided Villa to a 1-0 victory at Bournemouth on the opening day of the Premier League season.
Following Sherwood’s sacking, new boss Remi Garde has picked up just four points from nine games.
But board member Krulak — reclusive owner Randy Lerner’s right-hand man — claims Villa should draw inspiration from his own glittering military career.
The 73-year-old was a commander in the first Gulf War and also served in Vietnam.
He told SunSport: “I faced way bigger 'losing battles' than this — and won them.
“You can’t tell me this is impossible. Three wins in a row and we are back in the mix.
“That’s what Randy believes and what everyone at the Villa believes. The day you don’t believe is the day you quit.
“Let’s just look at Desert Storm. It was 4am and we were standing next to minefields separating Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. There were trenches filled with gas, massive artillery ready to rain down on us and the threat of chemical attack.
“My next in command looked at me and said, ‘How are we gonna get through this?’
“I said, ‘We’re gonna do it, we’re gonna go through this like a knife through butter’.
“It’s easy to give up but you can’t do that. We fought our way through those minefields and the rest is history.
“Never forget that Randy’s father was also in the US Marines and he shares these values, these beliefs.”
A belief in miracles would probably be handy right now.
Villa have gone 19 games without a Premier League win and still need four points to pass Derby’s record low of 11 points during a Prem season, set in 2008.
There are suspicions Villa will keep their powder dry in this month’s transfer window and save their money for the Championship.
But Krulak added: “I speak to Randy almost every day.
“He is a man of high values and integrity — the equal of anyone I have ever known.
“His word is his bond. Nobody has their sights set on anything other than staying up and Randy is backing the manager 100 per cent.”
Then he wouldn't be the owner.Mind you, when you think about what he's spent and lost and is about to lose going down, its mind boggling. He literally could have grabbed some bloke off the street to run the club and lost less money. It's like he had some sort of Brewster's milllions thing going on.Still won't dent the Lerner fortune. As the son of a hugely successful man, it's unlikely that he has ever really had to work at anything or put it all on the line. People like Lerner are as poorly qualified to pass the Fit & Proper Person test as the thug that owns Chelsea - both deeply unsuitable to be custodian of a famous football club but for different reasons.
Had the entire Lerner fortune been at risk due to our relegation then I am sure that we would be in a different position.
Any change of ownership will require either someone of the same wealth level or the joys of a leveraged buy out.
Then he wouldn't be the owner.Mind you, when you think about what he's spent and lost and is about to lose going down, its mind boggling. He literally could have grabbed some bloke off the street to run the club and lost less money. It's like he had some sort of Brewster's milllions thing going on.Still won't dent the Lerner fortune. As the son of a hugely successful man, it's unlikely that he has ever really had to work at anything or put it all on the line. People like Lerner are as poorly qualified to pass the Fit & Proper Person test as the thug that owns Chelsea - both deeply unsuitable to be custodian of a famous football club but for different reasons.
Had the entire Lerner fortune been at risk due to our relegation then I am sure that we would be in a different position.
Any change of ownership will require either someone of the same wealth level or the joys of a leveraged buy out.
I'll take a leveraged buy out if it rids us of Lerner's particular brand of fuckwittery. If the new owners pay for us with magic beans,I won't care as long as they have a clear coherent plan to run us, can communicate this plan clearly, unlike the stupid mute American
That's it then, we need to drop a few thousand tonnes of bombs on our opponents to soften them up first.
Yippee kiyay mother f#####s!!!!!!
USA USA USA USA......
Serious question.
Is Krulak demeted or have alzheimer's?
From The Sun. Hilarious witticisms comparing Villa with the the U.S. military omitted.
The Sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/6841548/General-Charles-Krulak-says-Aston-Villa-will-summon-the-spirit-of-the-US-Marines-to-escape-the-drop.html?CMP=spklr-_-S9DreamTeam-_-TWITTER-_-TheSunFootball-_-20160105-_-Sport-_-323297728-_-Imageandlink)QuoteGeneral Charles Krulak says Aston Villa will summon the spirit of the US Marines to escape the drop
Home Garde told: Don’t panic!
GENERAL Charles Krulak says Aston Villa will summon the spirit of the US Marines to escape the drop.
The rock-bottom Midlands outfit are marooned on eight points — a whopping 11 adrift of safety.
And they have had more managers than wins this season!
Tim Sherwood at least guided Villa to a 1-0 victory at Bournemouth on the opening day of the Premier League season.
Following Sherwood’s sacking, new boss Remi Garde has picked up just four points from nine games.
But board member Krulak — reclusive owner Randy Lerner’s right-hand man — claims Villa should draw inspiration from his own glittering military career.
The 73-year-old was a commander in the first Gulf War and also served in Vietnam.
He told SunSport: “I faced way bigger 'losing battles' than this — and won them.
“You can’t tell me this is impossible. Three wins in a row and we are back in the mix.
“That’s what Randy believes and what everyone at the Villa believes. The day you don’t believe is the day you quit.
“Let’s just look at Desert Storm. It was 4am and we were standing next to minefields separating Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. There were trenches filled with gas, massive artillery ready to rain down on us and the threat of chemical attack.
“My next in command looked at me and said, ‘How are we gonna get through this?’
“I said, ‘We’re gonna do it, we’re gonna go through this like a knife through butter’.
“It’s easy to give up but you can’t do that. We fought our way through those minefields and the rest is history.
“Never forget that Randy’s father was also in the US Marines and he shares these values, these beliefs.”
A belief in miracles would probably be handy right now.
Villa have gone 19 games without a Premier League win and still need four points to pass Derby’s record low of 11 points during a Prem season, set in 2008.
There are suspicions Villa will keep their powder dry in this month’s transfer window and save their money for the Championship.
But Krulak added: “I speak to Randy almost every day.
“He is a man of high values and integrity — the equal of anyone I have ever known.
“His word is his bond. Nobody has their sights set on anything other than staying up and Randy is backing the manager 100 per cent.”
Serious question.
Is Krulak demeted or have alzheimer's?
You can cut that out.
We are building something very special here, a home for bullshitters cowards and nut jobs.
I can gaurantee you one thing, he is way more frightened of facing genuine Villa fans than a bunch of Iraqui conscripts that would run if you shouted bang.
Old demented cowardly fool.
I'm genuinely starting to think these people are purposely taking the piss out of us fans.
It probably would have been better had he said nothing at all, but I do get the gist of what he's trying to say. The players shouldn't give up, they're not paid to give up, they have to keep believing even if the fans understandably have more or less given up hope.
Defend him to the hilt all you may want to but, in my view, everything that Krulak has spouted over the last 2-3 years has been utter crap.
Serious question - what could he have said that would have been better?
QuoteSerious question - what could he have said that would have been better?
he could have kept his face shut and said nothing
How can Villa be more like the US Marines when the team is comprised of Goddamn tea-sipping Limey pansies and cheese eating surrender monkeys. We need more Americans in the club.
QuoteSerious question - what could he have said that would have been better?
he could have kept his face shut and said nothing
And then we would all still be going on about the conspicuous silence from our disinterested American overlords.
QuoteSerious question - what could he have said that would have been better?
he could have kept his face shut and said nothing
And then we would all still be going on about the conspicuous silence from our disinterested American overlords. If anything, the question is why is GK having to fill a void left by Lerner's silence.
QuoteSerious question - what could he have said that would have been better?
he could have kept his face shut and said nothing
And then we would all still be going on about the conspicuous silence from our disinterested American overlords.
I don't think I've heard anyone complaining that Krulak doesn't speak to the press often enough. He should act more like a Marine and maintain radio silence.
How can Villa be more like the US Marines when the team is comprised of Goddamn tea-sipping Limey pansies and cheese eating surrender monkeys. We need more Americans in the club.
Could start with this one...
(http://dorkshelf.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads//2012/05/Victory-Stallone-Post-2.jpg)
QuoteSerious question - what could he have said that would have been better?
he could have kept his face shut and said nothing
And then we would all still be going on about the conspicuous silence from our disinterested American overlords.
I don't think I've heard anyone complaining that Krulak doesn't speak to the press often enough. He should act more like a Marine and maintain radio silence.
And that would improve our situation in what way?
QuoteSerious question - what could he have said that would have been better?
he could have kept his face shut and said nothing
And then we would all still be going on about the conspicuous silence from our disinterested American overlords. If anything, the question is why is GK having to fill a void left by Lerner's silence.
We want to hear more from the organ grinder not his monkey.
QuoteSerious question - what could he have said that would have been better?
he could have kept his face shut and said nothing
And then we would all still be going on about the conspicuous silence from our disinterested American overlords.
I don't think I've heard anyone complaining that Krulak doesn't speak to the press often enough. He should act more like a Marine and maintain radio silence.
And that would improve our situation in what way?
You've lost me
QuoteSerious question - what could he have said that would have been better?
he could have kept his face shut and said nothing
And then we would all still be going on about the conspicuous silence from our disinterested American overlords. If anything, the question is why is GK having to fill a void left by Lerner's silence.
We want to hear more from the organ grinder not his monkey.
Agreed. So, again, why does GK stepping in with clumsy motivational bollocks merit so much bile about his age/mental health/nationality? His heart is clearly in the right place and he is the least of our problems.
Sorry Moss man his heart is definately not in the right place, if his heart was in the right place he would not have got up and scarpered when the first bit of flak came his way, not the actions of an all fighting Action Man like he likes to make out.
Defend him to the hilt all you may want to but, in my view, everything that Krulak has spouted over the last 2-3 years has been utter crap.
Who here is or has "defended him to the hilt"?
QuoteSerious question - what could he have said that would have been better?
he could have kept his face shut and said nothing
And then we would all still be going on about the conspicuous silence from our disinterested American overlords. If anything, the question is why is GK having to fill a void left by Lerner's silence.
We want to hear more from the organ grinder not his monkey.
Agreed. So, again, why does GK stepping in with clumsy motivational bollocks merit so much bile about his age/mental health/nationality? His heart is clearly in the right place and he is the least of our problems.
Because the place where his heart is is to always look out and deflect negative attention and criticism from his close friend's son. We need direct action from our board that can affect our short, mid, and long term capabilities of the club. We don't need Krulak spouting mind numbing emptiness. We want to hear something from the board just not his brand of nonsense.
Defend him to the hilt all you may want to but, in my view, everything that Krulak has spouted over the last 2-3 years has been utter crap.
Who here is or has "defended him to the hilt"?
Maybe nobody. Delete that part of my post if it troubles you.
People are angry and upset. We have been beaten down, fleeced, sold short and embarrassed by something we were all once proud of and in the utter depths of dispair and realisation for the first time this weeknd that this is actually happening, we get an out of touch, bullshit rallying call from over the pond. It is extremely ill judged and badly timed so a little bit of vitriol is understandable. We didnt win against Norwich or Sunderland, I would love him to pinpoint where he sees these three wins coming from.**applause**
People are angry and upset. We have been beaten down, fleeced, sold short and embarrassed by something we were all once proud of and in the utter depths of dispair and realisation for the first time this weeknd that this is actually happening, we get an out of touch, bullshit rallying call from over the pond. It is extremely ill judged and badly timed so a little bit of vitriol is understandable. We didnt win against Norwich or Sunderland, I would love him to pinpoint where he sees these three wins coming from.**applause**
First, can we cut the random insults out.
Second, from past experience it's likely that Tom Fox knew about this at the same time everyone else did, so it's not proof of anything club-based other than the man himself never did get the hang of British tabloids. To quite a reguarly used maxim, they do enough regularly to damn them without looking for extra evidence.
First, can we cut the random insults out.
How about specific, targeted insults? Are they ok? Because I think Krulak is potentially worthy of them
Also - if we start taking our cues from the likes of the mirror and joey barton, who is suddenly the speaker of truths, then we're in a world of shit.
First, can we cut the random insults out.
How about specific, targeted insults? Are they ok? Because I think Krulak is potentially worthy of them.QuoteSecond, from past experience it's likely that Tom Fox knew about this at the same time everyone else did, so it's not proof of anything club-based other than the man himself never did get the hang of British tabloids. To quite a reguarly used maxim, they do enough regularly to damn them without looking for extra evidence.
Tom Fox knowing nothing about some preposterous Dr Strangleove tripe being spouted to the press by a board member who is also our owners Dads best mate means this is a club-based problem. It is extra evidence that we might have a complete buffoon on the board (if more evidence were needed). And I seriously do not like Krulak's habit of linking the plight of our football club to the tragedy and disaster of the Iraq War (although it does remind me to put my Villa concerns into some kind of appropriate context I suppose)
So Dave he cant be a responsible person and as he has now had a long disconnect from the club just turn round and say "No comment"
People are angry and upset. We have been beaten down, fleeced, sold short and embarrassed by something we were all once proud of and in the utter depths of dispair and realisation for the first time this weeknd that this is actually happening, we get an out of touch, bullshit rallying call from over the pond. It is extremely ill judged and badly timed so a little bit of vitriol is understandable. We didnt win against Norwich or Sunderland, I would love him to pinpoint where he sees these three wins coming from.**applause**
Well for one I would maybe talk to my Son and if his advise was to keep stum that is what I would do and also sorry Dave as a parent if the facts started to point to the facts my son was a tosser I just maybe would not back him. I am sure Jack the Ripper had very nice parents as well, but they could not deny what there son was.
No the Ripper part is not, but as stated I am a parent and I know children especially grown up ones are not always the angels parents, favorite uncles think they are.
But then again our plight comparing it to a war is also not a credible analogy, I know I fought in one.
So Dave he cant be a responsible person and as he has now had a long disconnect from the club just turn round and say "No comment"
He could, but as I said, he sees his 'son' being unfairly (in his eyes) attacked. What would you do in that position?
So Dave he cant be a responsible person and as he has now had a long disconnect from the club just turn round and say "No comment"
He could, but as I said, he sees his 'son' being unfairly (in his eyes) attacked. What would you do in that position?
So someone in his position cannot use the tiny bit of tact and diplomacy that is necessary? Just because who he is and how old he is doesn't give him carte blanche to say stupid things. He said he's learnt from the pig in mud episode but clearly not.
If you don't like it you dont have to listen.
I'm not arguing. You are. I stated my point about the General spouting crap and stand by it. Having just had a look around, it seems one or two are being a little defensive of him, in the same way that some people choose not to criticise any board member, EVER!Defend him to the hilt all you may want to but, in my view, everything that Krulak has spouted over the last 2-3 years has been utter crap.
Who here is or has "defended him to the hilt"?
Maybe nobody. Delete that part of my post if it troubles you.
It doesn't trouble me at all. Nor do I have any interest in deleting anything.
It just wastes your time if you start arguing with people who haven't said what you think they've said.
No the Ripper part is not, but as stated I am a parent and I know children especially grown up ones are not always the angels parents, favorite uncles think they are.
But then again our plight comparing it to a war is also not a credible analogy, I know I fought in one.
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
I'm not arguing. You are. I stated my point about the General spouting crap and stand by it.Defend him to the hilt all you may want to but, in my view, everything that Krulak has spouted over the last 2-3 years has been utter crap.
Who here is or has "defended him to the hilt"?
Maybe nobody. Delete that part of my post if it troubles you.
It doesn't trouble me at all. Nor do I have any interest in deleting anything.
It just wastes your time if you start arguing with people who haven't said what you think they've said.
I'm not arguing. You are. I stated my point about the General spouting crap and stand by it. Having just had a look around, it seems one or two are being a little defensive of him, in the same way that some people choose not to criticise any board member, EVER!Defend him to the hilt all you may want to but, in my view, everything that Krulak has spouted over the last 2-3 years has been utter crap.
Who here is or has "defended him to the hilt"?
Maybe nobody. Delete that part of my post if it troubles you.
It doesn't trouble me at all. Nor do I have any interest in deleting anything.
It just wastes your time if you start arguing with people who haven't said what you think they've said.
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
I reckon there'd be several thousand saying it to him if he ever made the effort to come to a Villa game instead of spouting bollocks about us from the other side of the world
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
I reckon there'd be several thousand saying it to him if he ever made the effort to come to a Villa game instead of spouting bollocks about us from the other side of the world
Of course they would.
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
Mossman my anger is directed at any of Lerner and his cronies full stop
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
I reckon there'd be several thousand saying it to him if he ever made the effort to come to a Villa game instead of spouting bollocks about us from the other side of the world
Of course they would.
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
Wouldn't you ?, you being the voice of H&V & cleary his words have not gone down with plenty on here.This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
I reckon there'd be several thousand saying it to him if he ever made the effort to come to a Villa game instead of spouting bollocks about us from the other side of the world
Of course they would.
You (and H&V) said it enough times about Doug why's Lerner different?
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
I reckon there'd be several thousand saying it to him if he ever made the effort to come to a Villa game instead of spouting bollocks about us from the other side of the world
Of course they would.
You (and H&V) said it enough times about Doug why's Lerner different?
Because we've been paid off of course. Or alternatively, because there's a world of difference between what was said on here then and the kind of aimless insult-throwing we've had this morning.
Surely you can opine that someone is an arsehole without having to say it to their face?This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?Wouldn't you ?, you being the voice of H&V & cleary his words have not gone down with plenty on here.This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
I reckon there'd be several thousand saying it to him if he ever made the effort to come to a Villa game instead of spouting bollocks about us from the other side of the world
Of course they would.
You (and H&V) said it enough times about Doug why's Lerner different?
Because we've been paid off of course. Or alternatively, because there's a world of difference between what was said on here then and the kind of aimless insult-throwing we've had this morning.
QuoteSerious question - what could he have said that would have been better?
he could have kept his face shut and said nothing
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?Wouldn't you ?, you being the voice of H&V & cleary his words have not gone down with plenty on here.This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
This is why these Fans Forums are usually rubbish. The attendees often have the intention of getting onto the board so they only say what the board will like to hear, instead of what they have been elected for. I can see there is a point in people trying to ensure that a forum, such as this, is not anti-club. But when conversation is stifled, it is poor.
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?Wouldn't you ?, you being the voice of H&V & cleary his words have not gone down with plenty on here.This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
This is why these Fans Forums are usually rubbish. The attendees often have the intention of getting onto the board so they only say what the board will like to hear, instead of what they have been elected for. I can see there is a point in people trying to ensure that a forum, such as this, is not anti-club. But when conversation is stifled, it is poor.
This is why these Fans Forums are usually rubbish. The attendees often have the intention of getting onto the board so they only say what the board will like to hear, instead of what they have been elected for. I can see there is a point in people trying to ensure that a forum, such as this, is not anti-club. But when conversation is stifled, it is poor.I'm only here for the women over-40 thread and Celebrity Deathwatch.
And "Where are you right now?" I love that one.
Amongst the rest of the drivel I've just seen from The General, there appears to be a a real peach of an experience he had before givin' the conscripts what-for. Howsabout turning BH into one large minefield & getting the hearty Mr K to get our squad of wasters to attempt to navigate their way through the naughty obsticles - whilst doin' a few keepy-uppies? Captain Micah can show his leadership qualities by going first...
Amongst the rest of the drivel I've just seen from The General, there appears to be a a real peach of an experience he had before givin' the conscripts what-for. Howsabout turning BH into one large minefield & getting the hearty Mr K to get our squad of wasters to attempt to navigate their way through the naughty obsticles - whilst doin' a few keepy-uppies? Captain Micah can show his leadership qualities by going first...
So Dave he cant be a responsible person and as he has now had a long disconnect from the club just turn round and say "No comment"
He could, but as I said, he sees his 'son' being unfairly (in his eyes) attacked. What would you do in that position?
This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?Wouldn't you ?, you being the voice of H&V & cleary his words have not gone down with plenty on here.This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
This is why these Fans Forums are usually rubbish. The attendees often have the intention of getting onto the board so they only say what the board will like to hear, instead of what they have been elected for. I can see there is a point in people trying to ensure that a forum, such as this, is not anti-club. But when conversation is stifled, it is poor.
If you find fan's forum's rubbish, then why are you posting on one?
So Dave he cant be a responsible person and as he has now had a long disconnect from the club just turn round and say "No comment"
He could, but as I said, he sees his 'son' being unfairly (in his eyes) attacked. What would you do in that position?
So someone in his position cannot use the tiny bit of tact and diplomacy that is necessary? Just because who he is and how old he is doesn't give him carte blanche to say stupid things. He said he's learnt from the pig in mud episode but clearly not.
Yes, he probably could but we all know he is what he is and he isn't going to change now. He shouldn't have said it, he shouldn't have said a lot of things but it's not worth getting worked up about.
Is there a survival plan?
The reason we are spending so much time talking about the General, is because no one from the club has told us what the plan is in this transfer window.
Twist or stick?
Is there a survival plan?
The reason we are spending so much time talking about the General, is because no one from the club has told us what the plan is in this transfer window.
Twist or stick?
80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
Of course they'll know who he is. From local media, to programmes, to mass media he is quoted. Just about every Villa fan will know who he is.
Having the likes of him on the board is one of the reasons we are in such a mess, what an absolute fkwit.
I'm with Pete on this. In my own circle of Villa supporting friends I'm very much the exception that I do go on forums and the like. My friends know about the General though.80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
Of course they'll know who he is. From local media, to programmes, to mass media he is quoted. Just about every Villa fan will know who he is.
I'll bet you they won't.
I'm with Pete on this. In my own circle of Villa supporting friends I'm very much the exception that I do go on forums and the like. My friends know about the General though.80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
Of course they'll know who he is. From local media, to programmes, to mass media he is quoted. Just about every Villa fan will know who he is.
I'll bet you they won't.
::) :-\This is making us into a proper dysfunctional basket case. This man is an a***h*** of the highest order. We have become the number one laughing stock in football world based on our performance and Krooklock gives more material to the detractors out there. Thanks a lot.
And you'd say that to him would you?
If you don't like it you dont have to listen.
I've never got this point of view. How do I know whether I like it or not unless I listen? And when I do try not to listen (ie, never buying The Sun) I still have to listen as the quotes make their way to respectable places like this and I read them... Plus its not going to do any good to just avoid hearing stuff one doesn't like. Running around with my fingers in my ears shouting "I'm not listening, I'm not listening" doesn't help (I tried it when someone told me the Sunderland result).
Me not listening doesn't mean it isn't happening.
And on the broader point that its not worth getting worked up over well I totally agree... but I still get worked up over stuff like this from time to time. Don't we all? Isn't that why we are here on this forum?
80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
Of course they'll know who he is. From local media, to programmes, to mass media he is quoted. Just about every Villa fan will know who he is.
I'll bet you they won't.
80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
I think you're being a little naive there, ok many might not recognize him if they were stood next to him but most would know of him being some sort of executive at AVFC80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
Of course they'll know who he is. From local media, to programmes, to mass media he is quoted. Just about every Villa fan will know who he is.
I'll bet you they won't.
The saddest thing about the position we are in and the amount of press coverage we have got recently is that there has been nothing about any interest in anyone purchasing the club from Randy.
Obviously 95% of that occurs behind confidentiality agreements etc but it would be a rare light in the tunnel of mediocrity if a takeover story broke.
Surely Lerner won't want to sell us at the moment with the price he'd get now buyers won't consider us a PL side, he'll have to hope we come straight back up and then get rid.
Surely Lerner won't want to sell us at the moment with the price he'd get now buyers won't consider us a PL side, he'll have to hope we come straight back up and then get rid.
Anything that Randy hopes or puts his mind to tends not to work out or happen and I have absolutely zero faith in Lerner getting us straight back up. At this point in time the ideal solution for him and us would be for him to sell on right now whilst we still have a chance of staying up. The impetus such a deal could give us might keep us up and help him save face. If we did go down at least he wouldn't go down in history as the owner on whose watch we sank... Right, all we need is that potential new owner to show up *sigh* ...
80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
You'd be surprised. People who don't use heroesandvillains.info can read as well you know. Blinky has been in the press often enough down the years for a fair portion of fans to know who he is.
Surely Lerner won't want to sell us at the moment with the price he'd get now buyers won't consider us a PL side, he'll have to hope we come straight back up and then get rid.
Anything that Randy hopes or puts his mind to tends not to work out or happen and I have absolutely zero faith in Lerner getting us straight back up. At this point in time the ideal solution for him and us would be for him to sell on right now whilst we still have a chance of staying up. The impetus such a deal could give us might keep us up and help him save face. If we did go down at least he wouldn't go down in history as the owner on whose watch we sank... Right, all we need is that potential new owner to show up *sigh* ...
I'm not sure there's even been so much as a serious enquiry in the past two years.
The saddest thing about the position we are in and the amount of press coverage we have got recently is that there has been nothing about any interest in anyone purchasing the club from Randy.
Obviously 95% of that occurs behind confidentiality agreements etc but it would be a rare light in the tunnel of mediocrity if a takeover story broke.
The club is a mess from top to bottom and we're about to lose about 40% of our turnover and have the image of a rotting sardine. The only people interested right now I imagine would be vultures looking for a cheap deal.
My own view is that savvy businessmen aren't interested as far too big a % of the income has to be spent on staff to turn a serious profit, for those looking to do it as a vanity project, there are already lots of clubs owned by incredibly rich individuals, what ego driven businessman want to spend half a billion quid and still not be able to sit at the top table?
Is there a survival plan?
The reason we are spending so much time talking about the General, is because no one from the club has told us what the plan is in this transfer window.
Twist or stick?
I think Lerner well and truly busted the myth that in the sky money era premier league clubs are a money spinner. As well as the myth that we have the potential to swell our support by converting neutrals in the area, given there were no signs of this happening even when we were the up and coming club and jostling with Arsenal for 4th place.
So, I agree with you PW, there's not an obvious way out of this from an ownership perspective. Let's face it billionaires looking for an ego project will have their pick of clubs better than us, more undervalued than us and better located than us (well, in London).
80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
So do you have to post to have any knowledge of the club you have supported for 56 yrs?
A few point. Firstly, even if General Krulak wanted to be here, he isn't well enough to travel transatlantic. Secondly, he has nothing to do with the running of the club and hasn't done for years. Third, it is unfortunate that The Sun always call him when they want a Villa quote and he still hasn't grasped "no comment" as the best way to go. With him seeing Randy as a surrogate son he will always come out swinging in his defence.
I am interested in the comment a couple of pages back that seems to be aimed at AVST though. To just disregard an elected board as some kind of club flunkies, desperately trying to wangle a job at the Villa, does them a great disservice.
A few point. Firstly, even if General Krulak wanted to be here, he isn't well enough to travel transatlantic. Secondly, he has nothing to do with the running of the club and hasn't done for years. Third, it is unfortunate that The Sun always call him when they want a Villa quote and he still hasn't grasped "no comment" as the best way to go. With him seeing Randy as a surrogate son he will always come out swinging in his defence.
I am interested in the comment a couple of pages back that seems to be aimed at AVST though. To just disregard an elected board as some kind of club flunkies, desperately trying to wangle a job at the Villa, does them a great disservice.
You would be pointing to my post, I suspect. It is untrue that I was referring to the AVST. The type of group I mean is the little groups that clubs have where fans become connected to the board in some way. The AVST, whose AGM I asked about how to attend on here the other day, appear to be a truly independent body that is not frightened to speak out against the club. This is not the case with fans 'representatives' who, are known to sell their souls to the Devil once they have wheedled their way into position.
A few point. Firstly, even if General Krulak wanted to be here, he isn't well enough to travel transatlantic. Secondly, he has nothing to do with the running of the club and hasn't done for years. Third, it is unfortunate that The Sun always call him when they want a Villa quote and he still hasn't grasped "no comment" as the best way to go. With him seeing Randy as a surrogate son he will always come out swinging in his defence.
I am interested in the comment a couple of pages back that seems to be aimed at AVST though. To just disregard an elected board as some kind of club flunkies, desperately trying to wangle a job at the Villa, does them a great disservice.
You would be pointing to my post, I suspect. It is untrue that I was referring to the AVST. The type of group I mean is the little groups that clubs have where fans become connected to the board in some way. The AVST, whose AGM I asked about how to attend on here the other day, appear to be a truly independent body that is not frightened to speak out against the club. This is not the case with fans 'representatives' who, are known to sell their souls to the Devil once they have wheedled their way into position.
My own view is that savvy businessmen aren't interested as far too big a % of the income has to be spent on staff to turn a serious profit, for those looking to do it as a vanity project, there are already lots of clubs owned by incredibly rich individuals, what ego driven businessman want to spend half a billion quid and still not be able to sit at the top table?
I think that's pretty much right. When you look at how much it would cost, and what kind of success you'll get, a superyacht or a private Caribbean island are a lot more attractive.
Dave can represent me if wants,but I ain't paying him for it.
Yes it is.80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
So do you have to post to have any knowledge of the club you have supported for 56 yrs?
That's not what's being said.
Yes it is.80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
So do you have to post to have any knowledge of the club you have supported for 56 yrs?
That's not what's being said.
Yes it is.80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
So do you have to post to have any knowledge of the club you have supported for 56 yrs?
That's not what's being said.
No it is not. What's being said is that most Villa supporters, in fact most football supporters, don't really care about the ins, outs and politics of their club. They want to watch the match, read about the team and occasionally talk about it but they don't particularly want to spend hours of every day arguing the toss on the internet. If it were any different the forums and blogs would have tens of thousands of contributors rather than a few hundred and I'd have long retired on the back of H&V sales that rivalled those of the Sun.
Yes it is.80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
So do you have to post to have any knowledge of the club you have supported for 56 yrs?
That's not what's being said.
No it is not. What's being said is that most Villa supporters, in fact most football supporters, don't really care about the ins, outs and politics of their club. They want to watch the match, read about the team and occasionally talk about it but they don't particularly want to spend hours of every day arguing the toss on the internet. If it were any different the forums and blogs would have tens of thousands of contributors rather than a few hundred and I'd have long retired on the back of H&V sales that rivalled those of the Sun.
Are those necessarily mutually exclusive though?
General Krulak is no doubt a brave man. You don't become a General without having guts.
However his comments today are embarrassing.
The saddest thing about the position we are in and the amount of press coverage we have got recently is that there has been nothing about any interest in anyone purchasing the club from Randy.
Obviously 95% of that occurs behind confidentiality agreements etc but it would be a rare light in the tunnel of mediocrity if a takeover story broke.
The club is a mess from top to bottom and we're about to lose about 40% of our turnover and have the image of a rotting sardine. The only people interested right now I imagine would be vultures looking for a cheap deal.
I think even those looking for a cheap deal will bide their time in the hope that we fall further and the asking price comes down further.
Surely Lerner won't want to sell us at the moment with the price he'd get now buyers won't consider us a PL side, he'll have to hope we come straight back up and then get rid.
Anything that Randy hopes or puts his mind to tends not to work out or happen and I have absolutely zero faith in Lerner getting us straight back up.
Is there a survival plan?
The reason we are spending so much time talking about the General, is because no one from the club has told us what the plan is in this transfer window.
Twist or stick?
Garde has come out and said that he has players in mind and he has already mentioned wanting Remy.
80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
You'd be surprised. People who don't use heroesandvillains.info can read as well you know. Blinky has been in the press often enough down the years for a fair portion of fans to know who he is.
Same would go for Tom a Fox as well,
your the one that would be surprised to find the majority of Villa fans don't live in our little internet bubble, and find everything they do and say worth analysing
I think Lerner well and truly busted the myth that in the sky money era premier league clubs are a money spinner. As well as the myth that we have the potential to swell our support by converting neutrals in the area, given there were no signs of this happening even when we were the up and coming club and jostling with Arsenal for 4th place.
So, I agree with you PW, there's not an obvious way out of this from an ownership perspective. Let's face it billionaires looking for an ego project will have their pick of clubs better than us, more undervalued than us and better located than us (well, in London).
General Krulak is no doubt a brave man. You don't become a General without having guts.
However his comments today are embarrassing.
Why is he no doubt brave?
There's many ways to become a general - I doubt being brave is one.
You'd imagine being strategically aware and using tactical nous might be closer to the mark - but he's never demonstrated that either. Why on earth Lerner thinks he's ever been asset to the board I'll never know.
Perhaps Lerner likes a man in uniform? lol
From The Sun. Hilarious witticisms comparing Villa with the the U.S. military omitted.
The Sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/6841548/General-Charles-Krulak-says-Aston-Villa-will-summon-the-spirit-of-the-US-Marines-to-escape-the-drop.html?CMP=spklr-_-S9DreamTeam-_-TWITTER-_-TheSunFootball-_-20160105-_-Sport-_-323297728-_-Imageandlink)QuoteGeneral Charles Krulak says Aston Villa will summon the spirit of the US Marines to escape the drop
Home Garde told: Don’t panic!
GENERAL Charles Krulak says Aston Villa will summon the spirit of the US Marines to escape the drop.
The rock-bottom Midlands outfit are marooned on eight points — a whopping 11 adrift of safety.
And they have had more managers than wins this season!
Tim Sherwood at least guided Villa to a 1-0 victory at Bournemouth on the opening day of the Premier League season.
Following Sherwood’s sacking, new boss Remi Garde has picked up just four points from nine games.
But board member Krulak — reclusive owner Randy Lerner’s right-hand man — claims Villa should draw inspiration from his own glittering military career.
The 73-year-old was a commander in the first Gulf War and also served in Vietnam.
He told SunSport: “I faced way bigger 'losing battles' than this — and won them.
“You can’t tell me this is impossible. Three wins in a row and we are back in the mix.
“That’s what Randy believes and what everyone at the Villa believes. The day you don’t believe is the day you quit.
“Let’s just look at Desert Storm. It was 4am and we were standing next to minefields separating Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. There were trenches filled with gas, massive artillery ready to rain down on us and the threat of chemical attack.
“My next in command looked at me and said, ‘How are we gonna get through this?’
“I said, ‘We’re gonna do it, we’re gonna go through this like a knife through butter’.
“It’s easy to give up but you can’t do that. We fought our way through those minefields and the rest is history.
“Never forget that Randy’s father was also in the US Marines and he shares these values, these beliefs.”
A belief in miracles would probably be handy right now.
Villa have gone 19 games without a Premier League win and still need four points to pass Derby’s record low of 11 points during a Prem season, set in 2008.
There are suspicions Villa will keep their powder dry in this month’s transfer window and save their money for the Championship.
But Krulak added: “I speak to Randy almost every day.
“He is a man of high values and integrity — the equal of anyone I have ever known.
“His word is his bond. Nobody has their sights set on anything other than staying up and Randy is backing the manager 100 per cent.”
Applause! Unfortunately,it's in his nature that General Krulak always plays a adventurous hospital ball,when a nice easy recycling of possession is required.I've encountered numerous American marines in the past,and they all seen to have some dodge of downtown reality...Which would be absolutely priceless in the Villa dressing room,if only for the dose of salts administrated to some of our priceless pooches,but sounds supremely naive and cumbersome out of a hack's report.Surely Lerner won't want to sell us at the moment with the price he'd get now buyers won't consider us a PL side, he'll have to hope we come straight back up and then get rid.
Anything that Randy hopes or puts his mind to tends not to work out or happen and I have absolutely zero faith in Lerner getting us straight back up.
I think the greatest hope for peace in the free world is that Randy takes over IS and gradually mismanages them downwards to local vandals status.
General Krulak is no doubt a brave man. You don't become a General without having guts.
However his comments today are embarrassing.
Why is he no doubt brave?
There's many ways to become a general - I doubt being brave is one.
You'd imagine being strategically aware and using tactical nous might be closer to the mark - but he's never demonstrated that either. Why on earth Lerner thinks he's ever been asset to the board I'll never know.
Perhaps Lerner likes a man in uniform? lol
His military career is very impressive and started at the bottom of the ladder. I am very uncomfortable with the personal abuse he is attracting here.
General Krulak is no doubt a brave man. You don't become a General without having guts.
However his comments today are embarrassing.
Why is he no doubt brave?
There's many ways to become a general - I doubt being brave is one.
You'd imagine being strategically aware and using tactical nous might be closer to the mark - but he's never demonstrated that either. Why on earth Lerner thinks he's ever been asset to the board I'll never know.
Perhaps Lerner likes a man in uniform? lol
His military career is very impressive and started at the bottom of the ladder. I am very uncomfortable with the personal abuse he is attracting here.
It's a shame he decided to come out with the guff he has then, otherwise his thoughts would've remained a mystery - along with his other good buddy.
General Krulak is no doubt a brave man. You don't become a General without having guts.
However his comments today are embarrassing.
Why is he no doubt brave?
There's many ways to become a general - I doubt being brave is one.
You'd imagine being strategically aware and using tactical nous might be closer to the mark - but he's never demonstrated that either. Why on earth Lerner thinks he's ever been asset to the board I'll never know.
Perhaps Lerner likes a man in uniform? lol
His military career is very impressive and started at the bottom of the ladder. I am very uncomfortable with the personal abuse he is attracting here.
It's a shame he decided to come out with the guff he has then, otherwise his thoughts would've remained a mystery - along with his other good buddy.
Why does the fact his comments are considered guff call for comments about his military career, and Randy Lerner's sexual preference?
80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
You'd be surprised. People who don't use heroesandvillains.info can read as well you know. Blinky has been in the press often enough down the years for a fair portion of fans to know who he is.
Same would go for Tom a Fox as well,
your the one that would be surprised to find the majority of Villa fans don't live in our little internet bubble, and find everything they do and say worth analysing
So most Villa fans haven't heard of Tom Fox or Colonel Blinky? Really?
Is there a survival plan?
The reason we are spending so much time talking about the General, is because no one from the club has told us what the plan is in this transfer window.
Twist or stick?
Garde has come out and said that he has players in mind and he has already mentioned wanting Remy.
Okay so where are the bids then? Where are the signings? There's another league game on Tuesday. How long do we wait? Until we've played our 23rd game?
General Krulak is no doubt a brave man. You don't become a General without having guts.
However his comments today are embarrassing.
Why is he no doubt brave?
There's many ways to become a general - I doubt being brave is one.
You'd imagine being strategically aware and using tactical nous might be closer to the mark - but he's never demonstrated that either. Why on earth Lerner thinks he's ever been asset to the board I'll never know.
Perhaps Lerner likes a man in uniform? lol
His military career is very impressive and started at the bottom of the ladder. I am very uncomfortable with the personal abuse he is attracting here.
It's a shame he decided to come out with the guff he has then, otherwise his thoughts would've remained a mystery - along with his other good buddy.
Why does the fact his comments are considered guff call for comments about his military career, and Randy Lerner's sexual preference?
What other businesses would let a 73 year old man, who knows nothing about the company he represents comment on our current mess? Dont these guys know when to retire We are a laughing stock.
Awful
Fine but let's not have rubbish about players still wanting to come to us and the backing of a survival plan not to mention the building of something special.
80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
You'd be surprised. People who don't use heroesandvillains.info can read as well you know. Blinky has been in the press often enough down the years for a fair portion of fans to know who he is.
Same would go for Tom a Fox as well,
your the one that would be surprised to find the majority of Villa fans don't live in our little internet bubble, and find everything they do and say worth analysing
So most Villa fans haven't heard of Tom Fox or Colonel Blinky? Really?
Maybe his name would ring a bell with some of them
But i'l tell you this, if you talked about the 'false narrative' on here virtually everyone would know straight away what you were on about without having to explain anything
If you stopped to a few hundred Villa fans walking out of the ground at the next match and asked them about the 'false narrative' they wouldn't have the first clue what you were talking about
And that's the difference between those on the internet like you and me and those that arnt on the forums, which like Dave says are the massive majority
Is there a survival plan?
The reason we are spending so much time talking about the General, is because no one from the club has told us what the plan is in this transfer window.
Twist or stick?
Garde has come out and said that he has players in mind and he has already mentioned wanting Remy.
Okay so where are the bids then? Where are the signings? There's another league game on Tuesday. How long do we wait? Until we've played our 23rd game?
I'd appreciate someone at the club like Lerner, Krulak or Garde apologising for the dreadful form and acknowledging that it's totally unacceptable.
Hands up who knew the names of our chairman, secretary or even a director or two before the advent of the Internet? I know I did. I even heard them speak via the media. It's almost being suggested that before the age of the Internet fans didn't know their arses from their elbow when it came to their football club and who was in charge.
Hands up who knew the names of our chairman, secretary or even a director or two before the advent of the Internet? I know I did. I even heard them speak via the media. It's almost being suggested that before the age of the Internet fans didn't know their arses from their elbow when it came to their football club and who was in charge.
Well I'm currently sat here on my elbow typing away.
If it's not being suggested that before the age of the internet fans didn't know who the board members were at the club, then why are you so insistent that fans these days don't know who is on the board unless they're on an internet forum?Hands up who knew the names of our chairman, secretary or even a director or two before the advent of the Internet? I know I did. I even heard them speak via the media. It's almost being suggested that before the age of the Internet fans didn't know their arses from their elbow when it came to their football club and who was in charge.
No it isn't.
If it's not being suggested that before the age of the internet fans didn't know who the board members were at the club, then why are you so insistent that fans these days don't know who is on the board unless they're on an internet forum?Hands up who knew the names of our chairman, secretary or even a director or two before the advent of the Internet? I know I did. I even heard them speak via the media. It's almost being suggested that before the age of the Internet fans didn't know their arses from their elbow when it came to their football club and who was in charge.
No it isn't.
Hands up who knew the names of our chairman, secretary or even a director or two before the advent of the Internet? I know I did. I even heard them speak via the media. It's almost being suggested that before the age of the Internet fans didn't know their arses from their elbow when it came to their football club and who was in charge.
It's debatable whether you know your arse from your elbow in the internet age
I'm not trying to pick an argument. However, you did back the notion that those who don't use forums (fora?) won't be that aware of Gen. Krulak. I begged to differ, and you countered with your own argument. Fair enough.If it's not being suggested that before the age of the internet fans didn't know who the board members were at the club, then why are you so insistent that fans these days don't know who is on the board unless they're on an internet forum?Hands up who knew the names of our chairman, secretary or even a director or two before the advent of the Internet? I know I did. I even heard them speak via the media. It's almost being suggested that before the age of the Internet fans didn't know their arses from their elbow when it came to their football club and who was in charge.
No it isn't.
It isn't being suggested and I haven't said that at all, much less been "insistent" on it. If you want to pick an argument, find something I've actually said.
80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
Of course they'll know who he is. From local media, to programmes, to mass media he is quoted. Just about every Villa fan will know who he is.
I'll bet you they won't.
Just posting to show where you back the notion of non-net users not knowing who Krulak is.80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
Of course they'll know who he is. From local media, to programmes, to mass media he is quoted. Just about every Villa fan will know who he is.
I'll bet you they won't.
Well John e's quote says 80-90%. I suppose it depends on ones definition of "just about every..."Just posting to show where you back the notion of non-net users not knowing who Krulak is.80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
Of course they'll know who he is. From local media, to programmes, to mass media he is quoted. Just about every Villa fan will know who he is.
I'll bet you they won't.
Which backs up what I just said - at no time have I claimed that non-net users won't/don't know who he is. What I said there is that I disagree with the idea that "Just about every Villa fan" will know who he is. I don't think they would but I really can't be bothered arguing the toss over something that I haven't said, and certainly don't agree with.
Well John e's quote says 80-90%. I suppose it depends on ones definition of "just about every..."Just posting to show where you back the notion of non-net users not knowing who Krulak is.80-90% of Villa fans who don't post on message boards wont even know who the General is
so I doubt if many of them are getting all worked up about it
Of course they'll know who he is. From local media, to programmes, to mass media he is quoted. Just about every Villa fan will know who he is.
I'll bet you they won't.
Which backs up what I just said - at no time have I claimed that non-net users won't/don't know who he is. What I said there is that I disagree with the idea that "Just about every Villa fan" will know who he is. I don't think they would but I really can't be bothered arguing the toss over something that I haven't said, and certainly don't agree with.
I don't know who knows what about whom. As for who knows what about the known unknowns well it's anybodys guess.
[b[I don't know who knows what about whom.[/b]As for who knows what about the known unknowns well it's anybodys guess.
Hands up who knew the names of our chairman, secretary or even a director or two before the advent of the Internet? I know I did. I even heard them speak via the media. It's almost being suggested that before the age of the Internet fans didn't know their arses from their elbow when it came to their football club and who was in charge.
It's debatable whether you know your arse from your elbow in the internet age
Well maybe so but while I was pointing out that the club was in decline and all the signs were there to see you were too busy organising a ticker tape parade for Randy's Young and Hungry parade to notice.
Know who they are, do not know who they are, what we do know that together they are making one hell of a fuck up out of Aston Villa, maybe thats what is worth getting upset about.
Know who they are, do not know who they are, what we do know that together they are making one hell of a fuck up out of Aston Villa, maybe thats what is worth getting upset about.
Ain't that the truth. The worse part is that they're getting away with it.
Know who they are, do not know who they are, what we do know that together they are making one hell of a fuck up out of Aston Villa, maybe thats what is worth getting upset about.
Ain't that the truth. The worse part is that they're getting away with it.
Will you be joining the protest before the Palace game?
Know who they are, do not know who they are, what we do know that together they are making one hell of a fuck up out of Aston Villa, maybe thats what is worth getting upset about.
Ain't that the truth. The worse part is that they're getting away with it.
Will you be joining the protest before the Palace game?
Yes. Will you?
Know who they are, do not know who they are, what we do know that together they are making one hell of a fuck up out of Aston Villa, maybe thats what is worth getting upset about.
Ain't that the truth. The worse part is that they're getting away with it.
Will you be joining the protest before the Palace game?
Yes. Will you?
No.
Know who they are, do not know who they are, what we do know that together they are making one hell of a fuck up out of Aston Villa, maybe thats what is worth getting upset about.
Ain't that the truth. The worse part is that they're getting away with it.
Will you be joining the protest before the Palace game?
Yes. Will you?
No.
Why?
Know who they are, do not know who they are, what we do know that together they are making one hell of a fuck up out of Aston Villa, maybe thats what is worth getting upset about.
Ain't that the truth. The worse part is that they're getting away with it.
Know who they are, do not know who they are, what we do know that together they are making one hell of a fuck up out of Aston Villa, maybe thats what is worth getting upset about.
Ain't that the truth. The worse part is that they're getting away with it.
Will you be joining the protest before the Palace game?
Yes. Will you?
No.
Why?
Because I don't want to and the bloke want's to sell the club anyway so i'll leave it to those who feel strongly enough to want to protest, which is fair enough.
Know who they are, do not know who they are, what we do know that together they are making one hell of a fuck up out of Aston Villa, maybe thats what is worth getting upset about.
Ain't that the truth. The worse part is that they're getting away with it.
Will you be joining the protest before the Palace game?
Yes. Will you?
No.
Why?
Because I don't want to and the bloke want's to sell the club anyway so i'll leave it to those who feel strongly enough to want to protest, which is fair enough.
Fair enough, but it's not all about telling him to sell up. For me it's more about reminding him of the fact he owns a fantastic football club that he is running into the ground with his austerity. The fans still have pride in their club unlike the owner.
Know who they are, do not know who they are, what we do know that together they are making one hell of a fuck up out of Aston Villa, maybe thats what is worth getting upset about.
Ain't that the truth. The worse part is that they're getting away with it.
Will you be joining the protest before the Palace game?
Yes. Will you?
No.
Why?
Because I don't want to and the bloke want's to sell the club anyway so i'll leave it to those who feel strongly enough to want to protest, which is fair enough.
Fair enough, but it's not all about telling him to sell up. For me it's more about reminding him of the fact he owns a fantastic football club that he is running into the ground with his austerity. The fans still have pride in their club unlike the owner.
And once again spectacularly or wilfully misses the point.
The budget that the club has been run with other the last 3-4 years, whilst not as luxurious as the unsustainable stupidity of MON, has been perfectly adequate to keep the club "ticking over" in mid table if you compare our wages bill to the likes of Southampton, Everton and so on. The problem is, as it has been from the day Ellis handed him the keys, is that he is useless at owning / running a sports institution.
I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
I think that is absolutely the most salient point. Players such as Lowton / Bennett / Westwood from that batch or Clark from the home grown bunch may well have developed into reasonable players at that level if they'd been integrated gradually into a team with some experience around them and allowed to develop. Instead they were pretty much all thrown into the first time to sink or swim.I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
Most of the damage was done in that period when we were signing the likes of Luna, Bennett, Westwood, Bacuna, Tonev, Bowery, Lowton, Sylla - were all those in Lambert's first season? Near enough I reckon.
The problem wasn't so much that we signed these players - signing them with a view to developing them wouldn't have been the worst idea - it was that we signed these players and most of them found themselves playing week in, week out, when they were patently not good enough at that time - combined with some home grown players who certainly weren't good enough.
I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
Most of the damage was done in that period when we were signing the likes of Luna, Bennett, Westwood, Bacuna, Tonev, Bowery, Lowton, Sylla - were all those in Lambert's first season? Near enough I reckon.
The problem wasn't so much that we signed these players - signing them with a view to developing them wouldn't have been the worst idea - it was that we signed these players and most of them found themselves playing week in, week out, when they were patently not good enough at that time - combined with some home grown players who certainly weren't good enough.
It also raises a less discussed problem we appear to have, namely the performance in the field of those who watch and evaluate our potential signings. All those listed by Paulie above plus a string of others have been seen as inferior after a few games for us. Some, like Westwood have not actually been good enough but have commanded a starting place because the others make them look better than they actually are.
The great unspoken failure at Villa is the failure of the quality of players we buy. Those whose job it is to be the eyes and ears of the club in the world miss the Vardys and spot the Tonev's.
I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
Great post, and that last line I am in total agreement with.I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
Quoting you here Clampy but could just as easily have been Cheltenham or VID. To me this all sounds like a 'technicality' style argument. 'Technically' each manager since MON had a bit of money to spend, about what £15m per year. OK, fair enough that might work if the squad did not need serious investment on account of sales/retirement of key players.
However, the team that finished sixth three years in a row lost players like Barry, Young, Milner and, eventually Barry's initial replacement in terms of a player purchase, Downing bought with the money Barry' sale brought in. Conservative estimate, those sales brought in a profit of about £35m.
After Milner's sale hurt us Bent was then signed to keep us up when we got into trouble and he did but when we stayed up we sold his supply line! We bought the enigmatic N'Zogbia to do the job of Young and Downing and he has proved one of the worst signings in our history. That season we also had the Petrov diagnosis which essentially meant our most influential player had to retire. Who did we buy in the following summer? El Ahmadi and Westwood with Vlaar in as our replacement for James Collins and new captain. Again, can we consider those signings an improvement/adequate replacements? The point being, we had a budget alright but to replace the quality we lost it was inadequate and left us shopping in inferior leagues like the Dutch and lower leagues. In my view KEA and Vlaar were as much punts as Westwood, Lowton etc. To fill those gaps in the squad we should have been spending at least double what we paid for Vlaar, Westwood, KEA. West Ham got James Collins and he is still a key player for them. Vlaar is now where?
Then, after a season fighting relegation we bought some of the worst players I have ever seen play for villa: Tonev being the embodiment of what we ended up with. Again, after just about staying up surely we needed better quality and therefore a bigger budget? Blaming Lambert here doesn't cut it. I am sure he, like any manager, would have chased better players if he had the money.
Then we saw the arrival of Kieran Richardson, Joe Cole, Senderos in the following summer. Ample investment for a team that had finished on 38 points?
Last summer we sold the two players instrumental in us staying up, recouped £40m and lost Cleverley. SUre we bought some good players to improve the quality at left back, centre midfield and wide forward but does anybody seriously believe Gestede was an adequate replacement for Benteke's goals? Goals that kept us up three years in a row?
When you sell the kind of talent we have since 2010 you need to replace it properly. I always use the analogy of Dwight York's sale funding Merson and Dublin. Our decline began with taking Ireland for Milner -when we had no manager so go figure- and subsequent managers having to replace quality premier league players like Downing, Young, Petrov, and last year Benteke with a limited budget.
Our midfield was decimated in 2010-2011 and never adequately replaced. It is the story of our decline.
I agree with the general consensus above. Lambert's three summers had three different approaches - mainly lower divisions, mainly lesser European leagues, mainly grizzled old pros. A mix of the three throughout might have seen his approach work, but instead you had players such as Westwood, Lowton and possibly Bennett, plus our home-growns, thrown in as regulars and playing when they were clearly in need of being dropped. The same has happened now with Guzan.
A few point. Firstly, even if General Krulak wanted to be here, he isn't well enough to travel transatlantic. Secondly, he has nothing to do with the running of the club and hasn't done for years. Third, it is unfortunate that The Sun always call him when they want a Villa quote and he still hasn't grasped "no comment" as the best way to go. With him seeing Randy as a surrogate son he will always come out swinging in his defence.
I am interested in the comment a couple of pages back that seems to be aimed at AVST though. To just disregard an elected board as some kind of club flunkies, desperately trying to wangle a job at the Villa, does them a great disservice.
You would be pointing to my post, I suspect. It is untrue that I was referring to the AVST. The type of group I mean is the little groups that clubs have where fans become connected to the board in some way. The AVST, whose AGM I asked about how to attend on here the other day, appear to be a truly independent body that is not frightened to speak out against the club. This is not the case with fans 'representatives' who, are known to sell their souls to the Devil once they have wheedled their way into position.
You will of course be backing this statement up with an example of this happening, yes?
I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
Most of the damage was done in that period when we were signing the likes of Luna, Bennett, Westwood, Bacuna, Tonev, Bowery, Lowton, Sylla - were all those in Lambert's first season? Near enough I reckon.
The problem wasn't so much that we signed these players - signing them with a view to developing them wouldn't have been the worst idea - it was that we signed these players and most of them found themselves playing week in, week out, when they were patently not good enough at that time - combined with some home grown players who certainly weren't good enough.
I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
Most of the damage was done in that period when we were signing the likes of Luna, Bennett, Westwood, Bacuna, Tonev, Bowery, Lowton, Sylla - were all those in Lambert's first season? Near enough I reckon.
The problem wasn't so much that we signed these players - signing them with a view to developing them wouldn't have been the worst idea - it was that we signed these players and most of them found themselves playing week in, week out, when they were patently not good enough at that time - combined with some home grown players who certainly weren't good enough.
Let's take Bowery for instance. How many other managers would have thought he was good enough for a premiership club? I know he didn't play much but Randy didn't cut the spending to the extent that resorted to Lambert having to buy a player who wasn't even good enough for League 1, never mind the Premiership.
I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
Most of the damage was done in that period when we were signing the likes of Luna, Bennett, Westwood, Bacuna, Tonev, Bowery, Lowton, Sylla - were all those in Lambert's first season? Near enough I reckon.
The problem wasn't so much that we signed these players - signing them with a view to developing them wouldn't have been the worst idea - it was that we signed these players and most of them found themselves playing week in, week out, when they were patently not good enough at that time - combined with some home grown players who certainly weren't good enough.
Let's take Bowery for instance. How many other managers would have thought he was good enough for a premiership club? I know he didn't play much but Randy didn't cut the spending to the extent that resorted to Lambert having to buy a player who wasn't even good enough for League 1, never mind the Premiership.
No, but he did exert pressure to reduce the wage bill, which is another influencing factor.
Pretty sure the general mantra from the club at the time was "its not the transfer fees, it is the wage bill"
The end result was still the same
I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
Most of the damage was done in that period when we were signing the likes of Luna, Bennett, Westwood, Bacuna, Tonev, Bowery, Lowton, Sylla - were all those in Lambert's first season? Near enough I reckon.
The problem wasn't so much that we signed these players - signing them with a view to developing them wouldn't have been the worst idea - it was that we signed these players and most of them found themselves playing week in, week out, when they were patently not good enough at that time - combined with some home grown players who certainly weren't good enough.
Let's take Bowery for instance. How many other managers would have thought he was good enough for a premiership club? I know he didn't play much but Randy didn't cut the spending to the extent that resorted to Lambert having to buy a player who wasn't even good enough for League 1, never mind the Premiership.
No, but he did exert pressure to reduce the wage bill, which is another influencing factor.
Pretty sure the general mantra from the club at the time was "its not the transfer fees, it is the wage bill"
The end result was still the same
But maybe we had to, otherwise we wouldn't have done it.
I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
Most of the damage was done in that period when we were signing the likes of Luna, Bennett, Westwood, Bacuna, Tonev, Bowery, Lowton, Sylla - were all those in Lambert's first season? Near enough I reckon.
The problem wasn't so much that we signed these players - signing them with a view to developing them wouldn't have been the worst idea - it was that we signed these players and most of them found themselves playing week in, week out, when they were patently not good enough at that time - combined with some home grown players who certainly weren't good enough.
Let's take Bowery for instance. How many other managers would have thought he was good enough for a premiership club? I know he didn't play much but Randy didn't cut the spending to the extent that resorted to Lambert having to buy a player who wasn't even good enough for League 1, never mind the Premiership.
No, but he did exert pressure to reduce the wage bill, which is another influencing factor.
Pretty sure the general mantra from the club at the time was "its not the transfer fees, it is the wage bill"
The end result was still the same
But maybe we had to, otherwise we wouldn't have done it.
i don't believe we had to reduce it that much, that quickly - that's what caused the problems. Too much of a cut, much too fast.
I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
Most of the damage was done in that period when we were signing the likes of Luna, Bennett, Westwood, Bacuna, Tonev, Bowery, Lowton, Sylla - were all those in Lambert's first season? Near enough I reckon.
The problem wasn't so much that we signed these players - signing them with a view to developing them wouldn't have been the worst idea - it was that we signed these players and most of them found themselves playing week in, week out, when they were patently not good enough at that time - combined with some home grown players who certainly weren't good enough.
Let's take Bowery for instance. How many other managers would have thought he was good enough for a premiership club? I know he didn't play much but Randy didn't cut the spending to the extent that resorted to Lambert having to buy a player who wasn't even good enough for League 1, never mind the Premiership.
No, but he did exert pressure to reduce the wage bill, which is another influencing factor.
Pretty sure the general mantra from the club at the time was "its not the transfer fees, it is the wage bill"
The end result was still the same
But maybe we had to, otherwise we wouldn't have done it.
i don't believe we had to reduce it that much, that quickly - that's what caused the problems. Too much of a cut, much too fast.
That's a fair point, but to the level where could only pick up the likes of Ashley Westwood's and Jordan Bowery's?
I think that is absolutely the most salient point. Players such as Lowton / Bennett / Westwood from that batch or Clark from the home grown bunch may well have developed into reasonable players at that level if they'd been integrated gradually into a team with some experience around them and allowed to develop. Instead they were pretty much all thrown into the first time to sink or swim.I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
Most of the damage was done in that period when we were signing the likes of Luna, Bennett, Westwood, Bacuna, Tonev, Bowery, Lowton, Sylla - were all those in Lambert's first season? Near enough I reckon.
The problem wasn't so much that we signed these players - signing them with a view to developing them wouldn't have been the worst idea - it was that we signed these players and most of them found themselves playing week in, week out, when they were patently not good enough at that time - combined with some home grown players who certainly weren't good enough.
That period from December to March in Lambert's first season possibly curtailed / ruined 4 or 5 careers.
Wasn't there a rumour that our "transfer committee" wanted to sign Vardy, but Sherwood wanted Gestede?I heard that too.
General Krulak is no doubt a brave man. You don't become a General without having guts.
However his comments today are embarrassing.
Why is he no doubt brave?
There's many ways to become a general - I doubt being brave is one.
You'd imagine being strategically aware and using tactical nous might be closer to the mark - but he's never demonstrated that either. Why on earth Lerner thinks he's ever been asset to the board I'll never know.
Perhaps Lerner likes a man in uniform? lol
His military career is very impressive and started at the bottom of the ladder. I am very uncomfortable with the personal abuse he is attracting here.
It's a shame he decided to come out with the guff he has then, otherwise his thoughts would've remained a mystery - along with his other good buddy.
Why does the fact his comments are considered guff call for comments about his military career, and Randy Lerner's sexual preference?
Also can you be specific about his strategic failings, militarily and in relation to Aston Villa?
Remember a few years ago when we had an influx of Cleveland Browns fans on the board having a nose, things turned out almost exactly the way they said they would.
More specifically I suggested that his bravery is basically unknown to all but those who served alongside him.
the Marines came under a heavy volume of mortar fire and sustained several casualties. Although seriously wounded himself, Captain Krulak unhesitatingly left his covered position and, thinking only of the welfare of his men, fearlessly maneuvered across the fire-swept terrain to ensure that his Marines were in effective defensive locations and capable of repelling an expected ground attack.... Captain Krulak fearlessly moved to a dangerously exposed vantage point from which he pinpointed the principal sources of hostile fire and skillfully coordinated fixed-wing air strikes and supporting artillery fire on the enemy positions, silencing the fire.....After repeatedly exposing himself to the relentless fire to supervise the evacuation of the casualties, he then personally led the platoon back to the main body of his Company across 3,000 meters of rugged mountain terrain to another patrol base and, although weak from loss of blood and the pain of his injuries, steadfastly refused medical evacuation until the arrival of another officer on the following morning.
I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
Most of the damage was done in that period when we were signing the likes of Luna, Bennett, Westwood, Bacuna, Tonev, Bowery, Lowton, Sylla - were all those in Lambert's first season? Near enough I reckon.
The problem wasn't so much that we signed these players - signing them with a view to developing them wouldn't have been the worst idea - it was that we signed these players and most of them found themselves playing week in, week out, when they were patently not good enough at that time - combined with some home grown players who certainly weren't good enough.
I'm with VID on what he says. Whilst the spending is not what it was during Lerner's early years, it's not as if managers have been forced to build a team on free transfers and loans. I think we can all agree that some of the players that have come in haven't been good enough though.
Most of the damage was done in that period when we were signing the likes of Luna, Bennett, Westwood, Bacuna, Tonev, Bowery, Lowton, Sylla - were all those in Lambert's first season? Near enough I reckon.
The problem wasn't so much that we signed these players - signing them with a view to developing them wouldn't have been the worst idea - it was that we signed these players and most of them found themselves playing week in, week out, when they were patently not good enough at that time - combined with some home grown players who certainly weren't good enough.
Let's take Bowery for instance. How many other managers would have thought he was good enough for a premiership club? I know he didn't play much but Randy didn't cut the spending to the extent that resorted to Lambert having to buy a player who wasn't even good enough for League 1, never mind the Premiership.
No, but he did exert pressure to reduce the wage bill, which is another influencing factor.
Pretty sure the general mantra from the club at the time was "its not the transfer fees, it is the wage bill"
The end result was still the same
But maybe we had to, otherwise we wouldn't have done it.
i don't believe we had to reduce it that much, that quickly - that's what caused the problems. Too much of a cut, much too fast.
I wonder if there is an opportunity for Aston Villa to become a supporter owned club, is there a possibility of crowdfunding enough money to buy out Randy Lerner?Someone had a similar idea on the thread below:
More specifically I suggested that his bravery is basically unknown to all but those who served alongside him.
I'm not going to comment on his record a a Villa director, but in response to your comment above:Quotethe Marines came under a heavy volume of mortar fire and sustained several casualties. Although seriously wounded himself, Captain Krulak unhesitatingly left his covered position and, thinking only of the welfare of his men, fearlessly maneuvered across the fire-swept terrain to ensure that his Marines were in effective defensive locations and capable of repelling an expected ground attack.... Captain Krulak fearlessly moved to a dangerously exposed vantage point from which he pinpointed the principal sources of hostile fire and skillfully coordinated fixed-wing air strikes and supporting artillery fire on the enemy positions, silencing the fire.....After repeatedly exposing himself to the relentless fire to supervise the evacuation of the casualties, he then personally led the platoon back to the main body of his Company across 3,000 meters of rugged mountain terrain to another patrol base and, although weak from loss of blood and the pain of his injuries, steadfastly refused medical evacuation until the arrival of another officer on the following morning.
Remember a few years ago when we had an influx of Cleveland Browns fans on the board having a nose, things turned out almost exactly the way they said they would.
Here's an article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer from 2005. Swap "Browns" for "Villa" and it could have been written yesterday
Browns lose president as fans lose confidence;
Here's what Browns owner Randy Lerner should learn from the Phil Savage fiasco: The team's fans are tired, shell-shocked and a little scared.
It has been 10 years since the original Browns moved to Baltimore, seven years since they were born again as an expansion team. In that decade, it has been one mess after another for this franchise of broken dreams.
Year after year....
Sunday after Sunday....
Loss after loss....
The fans keep renewing their overpriced tickets to the sold-out games. They keep coming, and yes, they keep complaining because they love this team so much.
They love the Browns of Paul Brown. Of Jim Brown. Of Otto Graham. Of Bernie Kosar. Of Brian Sipe. Of Paul Warfield. Of Mack and Byner. Of Minnifield and Dixon.
Not Butch and Carmen. Not Warren, Green and Garcia.
They long for the Browns of their youth, the Browns of their parents and grandparents. Those teams didn't always win and never went to a Super Bowl, but they were Browns teams that seemed to appreciate what it meant to play in front of some of the NFL's most passionate fans.
What we have now is a crisis in confidence, a sense that the family is falling apart, and the leader doesn't get it. That's why it was critical for John Collins to leave his position as team president, allowing Savage to remain as general manager.
The front office infighting is the fault of Lerner, who couldn't keep his friend and marketing man Collins from tinkering with Savage's football department. No matter what the spin is on the story, the fact is the team nearly lost Savage. The problem was the meddling of Collins and the reluctance of Lerner to stop it until it was nearly too late.
Since 1999, the Browns have been through five supposedly starting quarterbacks, four coaches and three player personnel types.
In three years under Lerner, the team has had three coaches, (soon to be) three presidents and 33 losses....
Remember a few years ago when we had an influx of Cleveland Browns fans on the board having a nose, things turned out almost exactly the way they said they would.
Here's an article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer from 2005. Swap "Browns" for "Villa" and it could have been written yesterday
Browns lose president as fans lose confidence;
Here's what Browns owner Randy Lerner should learn from the Phil Savage fiasco: The team's fans are tired, shell-shocked and a little scared.
It has been 10 years since the original Browns moved to Baltimore, seven years since they were born again as an expansion team. In that decade, it has been one mess after another for this franchise of broken dreams.
Year after year....
Sunday after Sunday....
Loss after loss....
The fans keep renewing their overpriced tickets to the sold-out games. They keep coming, and yes, they keep complaining because they love this team so much.
They love the Browns of Paul Brown. Of Jim Brown. Of Otto Graham. Of Bernie Kosar. Of Brian Sipe. Of Paul Warfield. Of Mack and Byner. Of Minnifield and Dixon.
Not Butch and Carmen. Not Warren, Green and Garcia.
They long for the Browns of their youth, the Browns of their parents and grandparents. Those teams didn't always win and never went to a Super Bowl, but they were Browns teams that seemed to appreciate what it meant to play in front of some of the NFL's most passionate fans.
What we have now is a crisis in confidence, a sense that the family is falling apart, and the leader doesn't get it. That's why it was critical for John Collins to leave his position as team president, allowing Savage to remain as general manager.
The front office infighting is the fault of Lerner, who couldn't keep his friend and marketing man Collins from tinkering with Savage's football department. No matter what the spin is on the story, the fact is the team nearly lost Savage. The problem was the meddling of Collins and the reluctance of Lerner to stop it until it was nearly too late.
Since 1999, the Browns have been through five supposedly starting quarterbacks, four coaches and three player personnel types.
In three years under Lerner, the team has had three coaches, (soon to be) three presidents and 33 losses....
The parallels there to what has happened at Villa are too striking for me to ignore. Randy Lerner is simply a very poor leader for a big business. He seems to lack every trait required to be a successful owner: poor judgement of character, poor vision, poor strategist, infirm of decsision...you name it. I don't doubt he lacks integrity and I certainly don't doubt that he is a decent person but he clearly isn't fit to run large sporting operations.
For me, personally, Lerner is now every bit as as toxic as Doug was. I want him and everything associated with him so out of Villa Park it isn't true. People will make the fair point that maybe we would be best sticking with Lerner because the next owner who comes in might be even worse - if the Browns are anything to go by it could be out of the frying pan and into the fire? My view on that is that we are already toasting in the flames with Randy. If there are no potential buyers out there I really would be up for the fans somehow getting ownership of the Club. I'm at the stage/age now where I desperately want Villa to reclaim a place at the top table. I want to see the highest of standards and, pride back in the Club and success that all Villa fans and the people of Birmingham can bask in. I want us stuffing man utd and arsenal at Villa Park again. If Lerner can't do it and there are no potential buyers out there who want to do it I'd be all for the fans trying to make something happen. There are no guarantees, of course, and I know a lot of folk will be thinking what on earth can we as fans do to get the Club back on top? Fair enough. I just cannot, cannot stomach any more of Randy Lerner, he is now doing far more harm to the Club than good.
I agree with the general consensus above. Lambert's three summers had three different approaches - mainly lower divisions, mainly lesser European leagues, mainly grizzled old pros. A mix of the three throughout might have seen his approach work, but instead you had players such as Westwood, Lowton and possibly Bennett, plus our home-growns, thrown in as regulars and playing when they were clearly in need of being dropped. The same has happened now with Guzan.
The young and hungry thing was, I thought, incredibly naive. At the centre of it were two enormous miscalculations
1. That if you threw the kids into the premier league, it'd be hard, but they'll blossom into decent performers - "they just will".
2. That if you convince yourself that it'll work, it will work, despite the obvious fact that, were it that easy, everyone would be doing it.
I can't remember if it was the first or second Lambert season but our wage bill actually increased rather than decreased by a couple of million for the season.You provided me with the figures here:
We wanted Ellis to go for a bloody long time before he did. On his own terms.
You are never, ever going to get a fan-based takeover. The initial cost would be way too high and bearing in mind the abuse our current owner gets for not spending his own money, where would further investment come from?
We wanted Ellis to go for a bloody long time before he did. On his own terms.
Quite. All this Doug revisionist shite. If he'd been serious about selling when he should have, we might have had a takeover before citeh spoiled things and maybe had a better chance of that top 4 thing. We were heading for relegation by the time he left, as a result of which Lerner started from a low base.
We wanted Ellis to go for a bloody long time before he did. On his own terms.
Quite. All this Doug revisionist shite. If he'd been serious about selling when he should have, we might have had a takeover before citeh spoiled things and maybe had a better chance of that top 4 thing. We were heading for relegation by the time he left, as a result of which Lerner started from a low base.
Funny how a few years ago it was 'Lerner appointed O'Neill', now it is 'Ellis appointed O'Neill'. Thinking back to the day that Lerner joined us, we were in a far better position than we are now. My post that was replied to was not a 'Doug revisionist post'. You seized on it in the manner of many who try to deflect blame away from Lerner by dredging up things about Ellis. What do you hope to achieve by this blind loyalty?
We wanted Ellis to go for a bloody long time before he did. On his own terms.
Quite. All this Doug revisionist shite. If he'd been serious about selling when he should have, we might have had a takeover before citeh spoiled things and maybe had a better chance of that top 4 thing. We were heading for relegation by the time he left, as a result of which Lerner started from a low base.
Funny how a few years ago it was 'Lerner appointed O'Neill', now it is 'Ellis appointed O'Neill'. Thinking back to the day that Lerner joined us, we were in a far better position than we are now. My post that was replied to was not a 'Doug revisionist post'. You seized on it in the manner of many who try to deflect blame away from Lerner by dredging up things about Ellis. What do you hope to achieve by this blind loyalty?
What nonsense. No-ones trying to deflect blame away from Lerner, the man has totally fucked it up.
As for your assertion we were in a far better position when Lerner took over? We didn't have a pot to piss in were selling the family silver to maintain a break even position on the finances and had finished 16th in the league having flirted with the drop for some of the season. Most people at the time were predictmg our imminent demise the following season. Hardly a million miles away from where we are now.
We wanted Ellis to go for a bloody long time before he did. On his own terms.
Quite. All this Doug revisionist shite. If he'd been serious about selling when he should have, we might have had a takeover before citeh spoiled things and maybe had a better chance of that top 4 thing. We were heading for relegation by the time he left, as a result of which Lerner started from a low base.
Funny how a few years ago it was 'Lerner appointed O'Neill', now it is 'Ellis appointed O'Neill'. Thinking back to the day that Lerner joined us, we were in a far better position than we are now. My post that was replied to was not a 'Doug revisionist post'. You seized on it in the manner of many who try to deflect blame away from Lerner by dredging up things about Ellis. What do you hope to achieve by this blind loyalty?
What nonsense. No-ones trying to deflect blame away from Lerner, the man has totally fucked it up.
As for your assertion we were in a far better position when Lerner took over? We didn't have a pot to piss in were selling the family silver to maintain a break even position on the finances and had finished 16th in the league having flirted with the drop for some of the season. Most people at the time were predictmg our imminent demise the following season. Hardly a million miles away from where we are now.
Correct
We wanted Ellis to go for a bloody long time before he did. On his own terms.
Quite. All this Doug revisionist shite. If he'd been serious about selling when he should have, we might have had a takeover before citeh spoiled things and maybe had a better chance of that top 4 thing. We were heading for relegation by the time he left, as a result of which Lerner started from a low base.
Funny how a few years ago it was 'Lerner appointed O'Neill', now it is 'Ellis appointed O'Neill'. Thinking back to the day that Lerner joined us, we were in a far better position than we are now. My post that was replied to was not a 'Doug revisionist post'. You seized on it in the manner of many who try to deflect blame away from Lerner by dredging up things about Ellis. What do you hope to achieve by this blind loyalty?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kxitvObmbRo
This guy sums it up a bit more courteously and succinctly for me.
We wanted Ellis to go for a bloody long time before he did. On his own terms.
Quite. All this Doug revisionist shite. If he'd been serious about selling when he should have, we might have had a takeover before citeh spoiled things and maybe had a better chance of that top 4 thing. We were heading for relegation by the time he left, as a result of which Lerner started from a low base.
Funny how a few years ago it was 'Lerner appointed O'Neill', now it is 'Ellis appointed O'Neill'. Thinking back to the day that Lerner joined us, we were in a far better position than we are now. My post that was replied to was not a 'Doug revisionist post'. You seized on it in the manner of many who try to deflect blame away from Lerner by dredging up things about Ellis. What do you hope to achieve by this blind loyalty?
What nonsense. No-ones trying to deflect blame away from Lerner, the man has totally fucked it up.
As for your assertion we were in a far better position when Lerner took over? We didn't have a pot to piss in were selling the family silver to maintain a break even position on the finances and had finished 16th in the league having flirted with the drop for some of the season. Most people at the time were predictmg our imminent demise the following season. Hardly a million miles away from where we are now.
Correct
Oh I don't know. Remind me, were we 11 points adrift of safety at the foot of the table after 6 seasons of smashing every shitty record the club had ever set when Doug sold up?
No we weren't.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kxitvObmbRo
This guy sums it up a bit more courteously and succinctly for me.
Absolutely spot on
We wanted Ellis to go for a bloody long time before he did. On his own terms.
Quite. All this Doug revisionist shite. If he'd been serious about selling when he should have, we might have had a takeover before citeh spoiled things and maybe had a better chance of that top 4 thing. We were heading for relegation by the time he left, as a result of which Lerner started from a low base.
Funny how a few years ago it was 'Lerner appointed O'Neill', now it is 'Ellis appointed O'Neill'. Thinking back to the day that Lerner joined us, we were in a far better position than we are now. My post that was replied to was not a 'Doug revisionist post'. You seized on it in the manner of many who try to deflect blame away from Lerner by dredging up things about Ellis. What do you hope to achieve by this blind loyalty?
What nonsense. No-ones trying to deflect blame away from Lerner, the man has totally fucked it up.
As for your assertion we were in a far better position when Lerner took over? We didn't have a pot to piss in were selling the family silver to maintain a break even position on the finances and had finished 16th in the league having flirted with the drop for some of the season. Most people at the time were predictmg our imminent demise the following season. Hardly a million miles away from where we are now.
Correct
Oh I don't know. Remind me, were we 11 points adrift of safety at the foot of the table after 6 seasons of smashing every shitty record the club had ever set when Doug sold up?
No we weren't.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kxitvObmbRo
This guy sums it up a bit more courteously and succinctly for me.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kxitvObmbRo
This guy sums it up a bit more courteously and succinctly for me.
I remember watching Forest in there death throws, I bet none of them thought it would last as long as it has.
I worry that we will follow a similar path.
I don't think either of them wasWe wanted Ellis to go for a bloody long time before he did. On his own terms.
Quite. All this Doug revisionist shite. If he'd been serious about selling when he should have, we might have had a takeover before citeh spoiled things and maybe had a better chance of that top 4 thing. We were heading for relegation by the time he left, as a result of which Lerner started from a low base.
Funny how a few years ago it was 'Lerner appointed O'Neill', now it is 'Ellis appointed O'Neill'. Thinking back to the day that Lerner joined us, we were in a far better position than we are now. My post that was replied to was not a 'Doug revisionist post'. You seized on it in the manner of many who try to deflect blame away from Lerner by dredging up things about Ellis. What do you hope to achieve by this blind loyalty?
I don't know what my post contains that suggests blind loyalty to Lerner. I think, overall, they were both fairly poor owners. But I don't buy this new version of history where Doug wouldn't have got us into this mess, because, as AV82EC points out, he pretty much did.
What is undeniable is that he was much better as protecting his own interests and that he walked away from us with a damn site more out of the transaction than Lerner will.
I don't think either of them wasWe wanted Ellis to go for a bloody long time before he did. On his own terms.
Quite. All this Doug revisionist shite. If he'd been serious about selling when he should have, we might have had a takeover before citeh spoiled things and maybe had a better chance of that top 4 thing. We were heading for relegation by the time he left, as a result of which Lerner started from a low base.
Funny how a few years ago it was 'Lerner appointed O'Neill', now it is 'Ellis appointed O'Neill'. Thinking back to the day that Lerner joined us, we were in a far better position than we are now. My post that was replied to was not a 'Doug revisionist post'. You seized on it in the manner of many who try to deflect blame away from Lerner by dredging up things about Ellis. What do you hope to achieve by this blind loyalty?
I don't know what my post contains that suggests blind loyalty to Lerner. I think, overall, they were both fairly poor owners. But I don't buy this new version of history where Doug wouldn't have got us into this mess, because, as AV82EC points out, he pretty much did.
What is undeniable is that he was much better as protecting his own interests and that he walked away from us with a damn site more out of the transaction than Lerner will.
We can harp on all we like about Ellis but the current situation is worse than we have ever been in our history. I've taken a punt on that without looking at the record books. We will achieve nothing by fighting battles that have long ended. All energy must be spent on the current problem. I say Lerner out!
One that had passed me by, but I've just read that Bolton are bottom of the Championship, £173M in debt and subject top both a transfer embargo and a winding up petition from HMRC?
Wasn't there a rumour that our "transfer committee" wanted to sign Vardy, but Sherwood wanted Gestede?I heard that too.
I don't think either of them wasWe wanted Ellis to go for a bloody long time before he did. On his own terms.
Quite. All this Doug revisionist shite. If he'd been serious about selling when he should have, we might have had a takeover before citeh spoiled things and maybe had a better chance of that top 4 thing. We were heading for relegation by the time he left, as a result of which Lerner started from a low base.
Funny how a few years ago it was 'Lerner appointed O'Neill', now it is 'Ellis appointed O'Neill'. Thinking back to the day that Lerner joined us, we were in a far better position than we are now. My post that was replied to was not a 'Doug revisionist post'. You seized on it in the manner of many who try to deflect blame away from Lerner by dredging up things about Ellis. What do you hope to achieve by this blind loyalty?
I don't know what my post contains that suggests blind loyalty to Lerner. I think, overall, they were both fairly poor owners. But I don't buy this new version of history where Doug wouldn't have got us into this mess, because, as AV82EC points out, he pretty much did.
What is undeniable is that he was much better as protecting his own interests and that he walked away from us with a damn site more out of the transaction than Lerner will.
We can harp on all we like about Ellis but the current situation is worse than we have ever been in our history. I've taken a punt on that without looking at the record books. We will achieve nothing by fighting battles that have long ended. All energy must be spent on the current problem. I say Lerner out!
And so say all of us.
Just need to find a buyer that's got the necessary readies and is either competent him/herself to run the club, or is competent to hire the right people to do it.
Easy isn't it.
Hands up who knew the names of our chairman, secretary or even a director or two before the advent of the Internet? I know I did. I even heard them speak via the media. It's almost being suggested that before the age of the Internet fans didn't know their arses from their elbow when it came to their football club and who was in charge.
One that had passed me by, but I've just read that Bolton are bottom of the Championship, £173M in debt and subject top both a transfer embargo and a winding up petition from HMRC?
One that had passed me by, but I've just read that Bolton are bottom of the Championship, £173M in debt and subject top both a transfer embargo and a winding up petition from HMRC?And they are owned by this chap Garside a pillar of football establishment in this country.
One that had passed me by, but I've just read that Bolton are bottom of the Championship, £173M in debt and subject top both a transfer embargo and a winding up petition from HMRC?And they are owned by this chap Garside a pillar of football establishment in this country.
It can be a very dangerous game.
One that had passed me by, but I've just read that Bolton are bottom of the Championship, £173M in debt and subject top both a transfer embargo and a winding up petition from HMRC?
Yep. Eddie Davis lives over here, and doesn't want to keep propping the club up any more. A cautionary tale about what happens to clubs who make losses, get relegated and then don't go back up quickly.
One that had passed me by, but I've just read that Bolton are bottom of the Championship, £173M in debt and subject top both a transfer embargo and a winding up petition from HMRC?
Yep. Eddie Davis lives over here, and doesn't want to keep propping the club up any more. A cautionary tale about what happens to clubs who make losses, get relegated and then don't go back up quickly.
But of that £173m, didn't they have about £150m of it at the time they were relegated? Not that this means we don't need to care about our finances, but it's not quite the same situation as we would find ourselves in.
One that had passed me by, but I've just read that Bolton are bottom of the Championship, £173M in debt and subject top both a transfer embargo and a winding up petition from HMRC?And they are owned by this chap Garside a pillar of football establishment in this country.
It can be a very dangerous game.
He isn't the owner, he's the Chairman.
One that had passed me by, but I've just read that Bolton are bottom of the Championship, £173M in debt and subject top both a transfer embargo and a winding up petition from HMRC?And they are owned by this chap Garside a pillar of football establishment in this country.
It can be a very dangerous game.
He isn't the owner, he's the Chairman.
A good example of a "big" club left floundering in the lower leagues in debt and the chairman part responsible is Sheffield Wednesday and Sir Dave Richards. I'm sure Wednesday fans are delighted that Richards jumped ship just before they were relegated from the top tier and continues to enjoy the largesse of the Premier League.
and that list shows you don't have spend loads of money on transfer fees, salaries and agents to compete. You need good players, through good scouting, good managers and coaches and confidence, Pardew, Koeman, Ranieri and the clubs they manage have done that.I'd imagine Leicester's wage bill will increase when other clubs come looking at their talent. The only way a club like Leicester will retain their best talent is if they significantly increase (read double or treble) the wages of their top performers. And even that may not be enough.
and that list shows you don't have spend loads of money on transfer fees, salaries and agents to compete. You need good players, through good scouting, good managers and coaches and confidence, Pardew, Koeman, Ranieri and the clubs they manage have done that.I'd imagine Leicester's wage bill will increase when other clubs come looking at their talent. The only way a club like Leicester will retain their best talent is if they significantly increase (read double or treble) the wages of their top performers. And even that may not be enough.
We paid lower wages than West Brom. I wonder if that's ever happened before?
We paid lower wages than West Brom. I wonder if that's ever happened before?
That was last season, this season I would expect the difference to be slightly larger, their bill going up again and ours down.
Nearly spat me beer out.We paid lower wages than West Brom. I wonder if that's ever happened before?
That was last season, this season I would expect the difference to be slightly larger, their bill going up again and ours down.
It will if you include win bonuses. Whatever they are.
I'm pretty sure we've been 8th or 9th in the ''wages league'' that one of the Sunday papers, the Observer, I think, publish on the results page on Sundays. The above suggests a bit of a drop.
and that list shows you don't have spend loads of money on transfer fees, salaries and agents to compete. You need good players, through good scouting, good managers and coaches and confidence, Pardew, Koeman, Ranieri and the clubs they manage have done that.
and that list shows you don't have spend loads of money on transfer fees, salaries and agents to compete. You need good players, through good scouting, good managers and coaches and confidence, Pardew, Koeman, Ranieri and the clubs they manage have done that.
Our wage bill is dropping as our league positions drops. Can you not see a link there?
and that list shows you don't have spend loads of money on transfer fees, salaries and agents to compete. You need good players, through good scouting, good managers and coaches and confidence, Pardew, Koeman, Ranieri and the clubs they manage have done that.
Our wage bill is dropping as our league positions drops. Can you not see a link there?
Except if you leave the top 6 aside there's barely any positive correlation between wages and league position this season.
Does everybody really believe RL is the anti-christ or the victim of terrible advice for the last few years. I don't know enough about the behind the scenes running of the club as so many people seem to? Everything seemed great when he had better advice but the last few years its got worse and worse. As I said I don't know but this has crossed my mind....
Our gormless, disinterested, distant owner has given up completely. I don't expect Lerner to endlessly plough his own cash into the club, however, for the club to be remotely self sustaining,I would have expected the owner to put to in place a proper management structure with qualified individuals in their respective positions. How long did we muddle along with a call centre manager running the show? Lerner is epically stupid.This is a great post. Same way Lambert was allowed to muddle along for weeks without an assistant manager and not even a handful of coaching staff. Shocking!
What next? A shoestring budget by championship standards and player acquisitions who are the cream of the conference?
I'll take anyone over Lerner. His wealth is a double edged sword, he has such considerable wealth he is completely insulated from any losses we make and as such can ignore what is going on. We are the rich kids discarded toy in the corner. Any leveraged buy out means the owner has to be actively engaged in making us a functional business again. That will do for me.
and that list shows you don't have spend loads of money on transfer fees, salaries and agents to compete. You need good players, through good scouting, good managers and coaches and confidence, Pardew, Koeman, Ranieri and the clubs they manage have done that.
Our wage bill is dropping as our league positions drops. Can you not see a link there?
If our wages for last season were £65million, then you'd expect, given the likely wages of Benteke, Delph and Cleverley, even accounting for Richards and Lescott that we would be up £100k per week in wages, roughly £5 million over the year.
With relegation reducing the bill by 30%, even before the high earning deadwood of Gabby, N'Zogbia, Richards and Lescott, would see the wage bill drop to circa £42 million in the second division.
One that had passed me by, but I've just read that Bolton are bottom of the Championship, £173M in debt and subject top both a transfer embargo and a winding up petition from HMRC?
Yep. Eddie Davis lives over here, and doesn't want to keep propping the club up any more. A cautionary tale about what happens to clubs who make losses, get relegated and then don't go back up quickly.
But of that £173m, didn't they have about £150m of it at the time they were relegated? Not that this means we don't need to care about our finances, but it's not quite the same situation as we would find ourselves in.
One that had passed me by, but I've just read that Bolton are bottom of the Championship, £173M in debt and subject top both a transfer embargo and a winding up petition from HMRC?
Yep. Eddie Davis lives over here, and doesn't want to keep propping the club up any more. A cautionary tale about what happens to clubs who make losses, get relegated and then don't go back up quickly.
But of that £173m, didn't they have about £150m of it at the time they were relegated? Not that this means we don't need to care about our finances, but it's not quite the same situation as we would find ourselves in.
It would be if Lerner decided not to prop the club up financially any more. The debts are not necessarily the problem, having insufficient working capital to carry on trading is.
and that list shows you don't have spend loads of money on transfer fees, salaries and agents to compete. You need good players, through good scouting, good managers and coaches and confidence, Pardew, Koeman, Ranieri and the clubs they manage have done that.
Our wage bill is dropping as our league positions drops. Can you not see a link there?
Yes and I am hoping for it to drop a bit more so that by the end we are top of the league.
You really do miss the obvious every time. That you don't need to spend the most to be a competitive side, yet the needle snapped off so long ago that you refuse to acknowledge that outside of those clubs who have so much to force a huge divide there is no real correlation between money spent and league position.
And if you think we should be the new Leicester you've got more screws loose than I thought you had. What on earth do they put in the water in Canada??
And if you think we should be the new Leicester you've got more screws loose than I thought you had. What on earth do they put in the water in Canada??
You might want to knock the personal stuff on the head.
And if you think we should be the new Leicester you've got more screws loose than I thought you had. What on earth do they put in the water in Canada??
You might want to knock the personal stuff on the head.
This forum is littered with digs aimed at me but I've not ever seen you pull anyone up about it. Practise what you preach please.
And if you think we should be the new Leicester you've got more screws loose than I thought you had. What on earth do they put in the water in Canada??
You might want to knock the personal stuff on the head.
This forum is littered with digs aimed at me but I've not ever seen you pull anyone up about it. Practise what you preach please.
And if anybody says about you that you've got more screws loose than they originally thought then they will also be asked to stop.
Just like you're being asked now.
One that had passed me by, but I've just read that Bolton are bottom of the Championship, £173M in debt and subject top both a transfer embargo and a winding up petition from HMRC?
Yep. Eddie Davis lives over here, and doesn't want to keep propping the club up any more. A cautionary tale about what happens to clubs who make losses, get relegated and then don't go back up quickly.
But of that £173m, didn't they have about £150m of it at the time they were relegated? Not that this means we don't need to care about our finances, but it's not quite the same situation as we would find ourselves in.
It would be if Lerner decided not to prop the club up financially any more. The debts are not necessarily the problem, having insufficient working capital to carry on trading is.
But that's supposition that isn't really backed up by what he has done up to now isn't it? Is it now twice or thrice that he has converted the loans owed to RAL to equity?
Does everybody really believe RL is the anti-christ or the victim of terrible advice for the last few years. I don't know enough about the behind the scenes running of the club as so many people seem to? Everything seemed great when he had better advice but the last few years its got worse and worse. As I said I don't know but this has crossed my mind....
He's not evil, vindictive or in any way nasty, but he is very stupid, naive, aloof, capricious, detached, incompetent and completely out of his depth.
And if you think we should be the new Leicester you've got more screws loose than I thought you had. What on earth do they put in the water in Canada??
You might want to knock the personal stuff on the head.
This forum is littered with digs aimed at me but I've not ever seen you pull anyone up about it. Practise what you preach please.
And if anybody says about you that you've got more screws loose than they originally thought then they will also be asked to stop.
Just like you're being asked now.
I'll be looking forward to you chastising the next poster who gets personal with me then.
And if you think we should be the new Leicester you've got more screws loose than I thought you had. What on earth do they put in the water in Canada??
You might want to knock the personal stuff on the head.
This forum is littered with digs aimed at me but I've not ever seen you pull anyone up about it. Practise what you preach please.
And if anybody says about you that you've got more screws loose than they originally thought then they will also be asked to stop.
Just like you're being asked now.
I'll be looking forward to you chastising the next poster who gets personal with me then.
How about all the times you get personal?
Which I get pulled up about, though i never get nasty with anyone. Don't ever remember you pulling anyone up when they get personal with me though. What's that, Dave?
Which I get pulled up about, though i never get nasty with anyone. Don't ever remember you pulling anyone up when they get personal with me though. What's that, Dave?
Please don't play the innocent. You were slagging me for months before you got banned last time - would you like me to quote some of the highlights?
Less than a week ago Dave W pulled up the bloke that called you a sad prick on the AGM thread.
Which I get pulled up about, though i never get nasty with anyone. Don't ever remember you pulling anyone up when they get personal with me though. What's that, Dave?
Please don't play the innocent. You were slagging me for months before you got banned last time - would you like me to quote some of the highlights?
Carry on Dave, and I'll pull up all the attacks on me that you and your mods miraculously missed. Deal?
Which I get pulled up about, though i never get nasty with anyone. Don't ever remember you pulling anyone up when they get personal with me though. What's that, Dave?
Please don't play the innocent. You were slagging me for months before you got banned last time - would you like me to quote some of the highlights?
Carry on Dave, and I'll pull up all the attacks on me that you and your mods miraculously missed. Deal?
Fine by me, then as you clearly don't like this place or the people who run it you can go away and never post on here again. Is that alright?
Which I get pulled up about, though i never get nasty with anyone. Don't ever remember you pulling anyone up when they get personal with me though. What's that, Dave?
Please don't play the innocent. You were slagging me for months before you got banned last time - would you like me to quote some of the highlights?
Carry on Dave, and I'll pull up all the attacks on me that you and your mods miraculously missed. Deal?
Fine by me, then as you clearly don't like this place or the people who run it you can go away and never post on here again. Is that alright?
I like it here, Dave. You should know that by now.
I know he's sent mixed messages on this over the past couple of years, but I still believe Lerner is fundamentally inclined towards trying to leave a decent legacy here. However bad his decision making has been I feel he's less likely to leave us in the shit financially than the vast majority of owners out there would be.Let's hope for the club's sake you're correct about that.
Sounds about right. If he had the right people running the club over the last ten years while he took a back seat, then things might have turned out differently. Instead he employed some idiot from a call centre and have him the job of CEO of a Premier League club.
Which I get pulled up about, though i never get nasty with anyone. Don't ever remember you pulling anyone up when they get personal with me though. What's that, Dave?
Please don't play the innocent. You were slagging me for months before you got banned last time - would you like me to quote some of the highlights?
Carry on Dave, and I'll pull up all the attacks on me that you and your mods miraculously missed. Deal?
Fine by me, then as you clearly don't like this place or the people who run it you can go away and never post on here again. Is that alright?
I like it here, Dave. You should know that by now.
Then stop acting like an outraged virgin every time someone disagrees with you.
and that list shows you don't have spend loads of money on transfer fees, salaries and agents to compete. You need good players, through good scouting, good managers and coaches and confidence, Pardew, Koeman, Ranieri and the clubs they manage have done that.
Our wage bill is dropping as our league positions drops. Can you not see a link there?
Yes and I am hoping for it to drop a bit more so that by the end we are top of the league.
You really do miss the obvious every time. That you don't need to spend the most to be a competitive side, yet the needle snapped off so long ago that you refuse to acknowledge that outside of those clubs who have so much to force a huge divide there is no real correlation between money spent and league position.
You really do find the positive in every single shitty stat this club has produced over the last 6 seasons don't you. I maybe like a stuck record but at least I'm realistic, and the more we reduce our wage bill the further we fall down the table and closer and closer we head toward the trap door. And if you think we should be the new Leicester you've got more screws loose than I thought you had. What on earth do they put in the water in Canada??
and that list shows you don't have spend loads of money on transfer fees, salaries and agents to compete. You need good players, through good scouting, good managers and coaches and confidence, Pardew, Koeman, Ranieri and the clubs they manage have done that.
Our wage bill is dropping as our league positions drops. Can you not see a link there?
Yes and I am hoping for it to drop a bit more so that by the end we are top of the league.
You really do miss the obvious every time. That you don't need to spend the most to be a competitive side, yet the needle snapped off so long ago that you refuse to acknowledge that outside of those clubs who have so much to force a huge divide there is no real correlation between money spent and league position.
You really do find the positive in every single shitty stat this club has produced over the last 6 seasons don't you. I maybe like a stuck record but at least I'm realistic, and the more we reduce our wage bill the further we fall down the table and closer and closer we head toward the trap door. And if you think we should be the new Leicester you've got more screws loose than I thought you had. What on earth do they put in the water in Canada??
You're so angry at everything that instead of debating the point I was making which wasn't about Villa specifically you made it into me defending the club. Which if you bothered to pay attention you'd notice I've done very little of for ages now. I don't see the point in defending things that are indefensible.
Oh I'll keep the higher ground too and not resort to personal digs, but knock yourself out if that's all you have left.
Fucking quotathons. All the fucking time. Because quoting every fucking word of a discussion is imperative to getting your two word comment in. Drives me nuts.
Fucking quotathons. All the fucking time. Because quoting every fucking word of a discussion is imperative to getting your two word comment in. Drives me nuts.
Same here.
Fucking quotathons. All the fucking time. Because quoting every fucking word of a discussion is imperative to getting your two word comment in. Drives me nuts.
Same here.
Me, too.
Fucking quotathons. All the fucking time. Because quoting every fucking word of a discussion is imperative to getting your two word comment in. Drives me nuts.
Same here.
Me, too.
Drives me ficking mad when I'm using my phone, especially when somebody then posts 'this'.
Left the goal open...
Fucking quotathons. All the fucking time. Because quoting every fucking word of a discussion is imperative to getting your two word comment in. Drives me nuts.
Same here.
Me, too.
Drives me ficking mad when I'm using my phone, especially when somebody then posts 'this'.
Left the goal open...
We'd still miss.
Fucking quotathons. All the fucking time. Because quoting every fucking word of a discussion is imperative to getting your two word comment in. Drives me nuts.
Same here.
Me, too.
Drives me ficking mad when I'm using my phone, especially when somebody then posts 'this'.
Left the goal open...
We'd still miss.
This.
Fucking quotathons. All the fucking time. Because quoting every fucking word of a discussion is imperative to getting your two word comment in. Drives me nuts.
Same here.
Me, too.
Drives me ficking mad when I'm using my phone, especially when somebody then posts 'this'.
Left the goal open...
We'd still miss.
This.
Good one Chris.
Fucking quotathons. All the fucking time. Because quoting every fucking word of a discussion is imperative to getting your two word comment in. Drives me nuts.
Same here.
Me, too.
Drives me ficking mad when I'm using my phone, especially when somebody then posts 'this'.
Left the goal open...
We'd still miss.
This.
Good one Chris.
Ha!
I hope I'm right in this, but I believe that Lerner is a basically decent man, who just can't/won't be boithered with the effort of running a Premier League club anymore but still wants to do the right thing by us.
I hope I'm right in this, but I believe that Lerner is a basically decent man, who just can't/won't be boithered with the effort of running a Premier League club anymore but still wants to do the right thing by us.
Doing the right thing by Villa is not running us on the budget of a bottom five club. Someone posted last season's Premier League wage rankings the other day and it spoke volumes about the corners Lerner has been trying to cut over the past few years.
Doing the right thing by Villa is not running us on the budget of a bottom five club. Someone posted last season's Premier League wage rankings the other day and it spoke volumes about the corners Lerner has been trying to cut over the past few years.
It also showed that our budget isn't amongst the bottom five clubs in the league.
Doing the right thing by Villa is not running us on the budget of a bottom five club. Someone posted last season's Premier League wage rankings the other day and it spoke volumes about the corners Lerner has been trying to cut over the past few years.
It also showed that our budget isn't amongst the bottom five clubs in the league.
No but it shows that it's going down every year and that's significant.
I hope I'm right in this, but I believe that Lerner is a basically decent man, who just can't/won't be boithered with the effort of running a Premier League club anymore but still wants to do the right thing by us.
If he bought the biggest club in the Midlands which rightly or wrongly carries the hopes and dreams of tens of thousand of people yet can't be bothered to run it, then I fail to see how he can be a basically decent person.
Yes where we are is shit, but I don't believe it's out of malice or ill intent on Lerner's part. Just incompetence.
Doing the right thing by Villa is not running us on the budget of a bottom five club. Someone posted last season's Premier League wage rankings the other day and it spoke volumes about the corners Lerner has been trying to cut over the past few years.
It also showed that our budget isn't amongst the bottom five clubs in the league.
I hope I'm right in this, but I believe that Lerner is a basically decent man, who just can't/won't be boithered with the effort of running a Premier League club anymore but still wants to do the right thing by us.
I hope I'm right in this, but I believe that Lerner is a basically decent man, who just can't/won't be boithered with the effort of running a Premier League club anymore but still wants to do the right thing by us.
That's more or less my take as well, which is why when I read or hear people coming out with comments like 'scum' or 'wanker', as much as I understand the frustration, I just find it so unnecessary.
He's just a blithering idiot, with an unsurpassed propensity to fuck up. Fuck knows who he'll sell us to, some total arsehole no doubt, but it will be done with the best of intentions so that's ok. He's a fucking dickhead and I'll be glad to see him gone and I take comfort in the fact that his successor cannot in all probability match his incompetence..I have to wonder in all seriousness, when assembling his staff, how difficult it was for Lerner to put round pegs in round holes by saying his new CEO must have experience of being a CEO? How difficult it was to hire an experienced head scout, etc?
He's just a blithering idiot, with an unsurpassed propensity to fuck up. Fuck knows who he'll sell us to, some total arsehole no doubt, but it will be done with the best of intentions so that's ok. He's a fucking dickhead and I'll be glad to see him gone and I take comfort in the fact that his successor cannot in all probability match his incompetence..I have to wonder in all seriousness, when assembling his staff, how difficult it was for Lerner to put round pegs in round holes by saying his new CEO must have experience of being a CEO? How difficult it was to hire an experienced head scout, etc?
The man is incompetent, I do not believe for a minute he has any ill intentions to cause the mayhem and discord he has, but he is so incompetent he never ever learns from his mistakes, proven by the people in position now and there total lack of suitability for the positions they have been given.
Do I hate him, YES, but I wish no ill to him, my hatred comes from what he has been responsible over the last 5 years at my football club and the daily continual damage he is doing.
The man is incompetent, I do not believe for a minute he has any ill intentions to cause the mayhem and discord he has, but he is so incompetent he never ever learns from his mistakes, proven by the people in position now and there total lack of suitability for the positions they have been given.
Do I hate him, YES, but I wish no ill to him, my hatred comes from what he has been responsible over the last 5 years at my football club and the daily continual damage he is doing.
Serious question but what does Lerner do on a daily basis? What takes so much of his time that he is never seen here anymore? Is he really that busy? He's got a business over here that is in serious trouble and yet isn't visible at all.You are assuming he would know what to do if he was around, this is patently not the case. So what is the point ?
I get that he has employed people to run it for him but that isn't working. I just wondered what is so demanding that he can't be visible even once a month to try and sort this mess out.
Serious question but what does Lerner do on a daily basis? What takes so much of his time that he is never seen here anymore? Is he really that busy? He's got a business over here that is in serious trouble and yet isn't visible at all.You are assuming he would know what to do if he was around, this is patently not the case. So what is the point ?
I get that he has employed people to run it for him but that isn't working. I just wondered what is so demanding that he can't be visible even once a month to try and sort this mess out.
Obviously he's hiding. He knows he's done a lot of wrong and can't face anyone to do with the club.
Yes I know what you mean, under any normal circumstances that might be the case. I doubt if any one has any respect for him though.Serious question but what does Lerner do on a daily basis? What takes so much of his time that he is never seen here anymore? Is he really that busy? He's got a business over here that is in serious trouble and yet isn't visible at all.You are assuming he would know what to do if he was around, this is patently not the case. So what is the point ?
I get that he has employed people to run it for him but that isn't working. I just wondered what is so demanding that he can't be visible even once a month to try and sort this mess out.
It's a question of leadership isn't it. When the boss is away there is a propensity to 'doss' around I think. If he shows up at least with the intent shown there might be a change in attitude around the place.
Obviously he's hiding. He knows he's done a lot of wrong and can't face anyone to do with the club.
It's as simple as this, human nature.
I suspect if we were top of the league he'd be living in a penthouse at the Mailbox.
Obviously he's hiding. He knows he's done a lot of wrong and can't face anyone to do with the club.
It's as simple as this, human nature.
I suspect if we were top of the league he'd be living in a penthouse at the Mailbox.
I don't think he would to be honest though.
Obviously he's hiding. He knows he's done a lot of wrong and can't face anyone to do with the club.
It's as simple as this, human nature.
I suspect if we were top of the league he'd be living in a penthouse at the Mailbox.
I don't think he would to be honest though.
Well he seemed to find the ground on plenty of occasions when we were in the top 4, being feted for giving out scarves or appearing at Wembley.
Obviously he's hiding. He knows he's done a lot of wrong and can't face anyone to do with the club.
It's as simple as this, human nature.
I suspect if we were top of the league he'd be living in a penthouse at the Mailbox.
I don't think he would to be honest though.
Well he seemed to find the ground on plenty of occasions when we were in the top 4, being feted for giving out scarves or appearing at Wembley.
But that's a little different to having an apartment in the middle of Birmingham City Centre.
At least the media are starting to get the real picture. Following on from that guy on Sky the other day, the match report in today's Independent talks about the team's indolence, and "a disaffected foreign owner, incompetent recruitment, and feckless millionaire players". There's also a separate piece about General Krulak, and while recognising him as a brilliant battlefield tactician picks up on the absurd parallel between kicking a ball around to try and avoid relegation and fighting through minefields and chemical weapons in the Gulf War. The piece goes on to say we need a new owner to "revive spirits, sack executives, and catalyse a cultural revolution in the dressing room". At last people are wising up to the fact that there's more to Villa's problems than a string of apparently incompetent managers.
At least the media are starting to get the real picture. Following on from that guy on Sky the other day, the match report in today's Independent talks about the team's indolence, and "a disaffected foreign owner, incompetent recruitment, and feckless millionaire players". There's also a separate piece about General Krulak, and while recognising him as a brilliant battlefield tactician picks up on the absurd parallel between kicking a ball around to try and avoid relegation and fighting through minefields and chemical weapons in the Gulf War. The piece goes on to say we need a new owner to "revive spirits, sack executives, and catalyse a cultural revolution in the dressing room". At last people are wising up to the fact that there's more to Villa's problems than a string of apparently incompetent managers.
Ain't that the truth.
They can't even get installing a Chairman right, not that I expect it will make any difference but why come out and say the role will be filled imminently a few months ago and then nothing happens.
One thing I'll say about Lerner is that he is an abysmal "leader".One eyed when it comes to his 'son'.
Some things trickle from the top down and his entire "yes i will, no I won't sell" / "yes I do care, no I don't care" routine stinks the whole club out.
I wonder what General Krulak - a man who quite clearly is an excellent leader - thinks of that?
They can't even get installing a Chairman right, not that I expect it will make any difference but why come out and say the role will be filled imminently a few months ago and then nothing happens.
Looks like Randy is having another little get together with his staff in NY this week. I wonder what restaurant he won't end up being in?
Looks like Randy is having another little get together with his staff in NY this week. I wonder what restaurant he won't end up being in?
Try skype Randy. Its greener.
Is it just me or does it feel like something is building to a horrible crescendo?
Fans verbally attacking players.
Players trying to calm fans in the stands, while a game is in progress.
The manager getting the absolute dogs abuse.
Players pissing about in the dugout like naughty children.
Protests planned before the next game.
The muppets flying to New York to discuss transfer funds, 2 weeks after the window opens.
And meanwhile the culprit, acts like Nero. Fiddling while Rome burns.
Looks like Randy is having another little get together with his staff in NY this week. I wonder what restaurant he won't end up being in?
Try skype Randy. Its greener.
Has Lerner actually thought of coming over here to sort the mess out? Senior staff going to NY when there's 2 home games in a week sort of sums up the idiocy of the hierarchy. Or is it a 'cunning' plan ala Baldrick? Lerner reminds me of the Prince Regent in Blackadder 3!
Is it just me or does it feel like something is building to a horrible crescendo?
Fans verbally attacking players.
Players trying to calm fans in the stands, while a game is in progress.
The manager getting the absolute dogs abuse.
Players pissing about in the dugout like naughty children.
Protests planned before the next game.
The muppets flying to New York to discuss transfer funds, 2 weeks after the window opens.
And meanwhile the culprit, acts like Nero. Fiddling while Rome burns.
One thing I'll say about Lerner is that he is an abysmal "leader".
Some things trickle from the top down and his entire "yes i will, no I won't sell" / "yes I do care, no I don't care" routine stinks the whole club out.
I wonder what General Krulak - a man who quite clearly is an excellent leader - thinks of that?
Looks like Randy is having another little get together with his staff in NY this week. I wonder what restaurant he won't end up being in?
Try skype Randy. Its greener.
Has Lerner actually thought of coming over here to sort the mess out? Senior staff going to NY when there's 2 home games in a week sort of sums up the idiocy of the hierarchy. Or is it a 'cunning' plan ala Baldrick? Lerner reminds me of the Prince Regent in Blackadder 3!
Apparently making a statement today
Yes David along the lines of "The Shulamites have told me to fuck off, so I am going back to Plan B, only problem is at the minute, I am not sure what Plan B is, so I have asked Tom and what ever his name is to come and have a spot of lunch with me and General Custer to sort one out. I will get back to you in 2 years time when we have it sorted, Proud History, not sure about tomorrow, toodle pip guys"
Apparently making a statement today
Randy Lerner is set to make a statement about Aston Villa’s season of shame after being urged by Remi Garde to speak out.
Lerner is today having crisis talks with chief executive Tom Fox and sporting director Hendrik Almstadt in New York.
The American owner has been reluctant to speak publicy during his 10-year tenure, particularly during the last five years.
His last public address came in the summer and he is yet to give his opinion on the current shambles at the Premier League’s bottom club.
Garde revealed that he has asked the board to make a statement after being faced with questions beyond his managerial remit.
“This is something I asked from them a fortnight ago or something like that.
“Not to take the pressure of me - if I didn’t want the pressure I wouldn’t have this job.
“It’s more because I’m facing you every week but actually I knew Villa from inside for only 10 weeks now.
“At some point I cannot explain and am not in the position to judge what happened before and whether it was right or wrong because I wasn’t here.
“At some point it is important that the Aston Villa voice for now is not only mine.”
Garde, who took over from Tim Sherwood as Villa boss in early November, admits it is not his place to answer for the entire club.
“I don’t have all the answers to the questions about Villa,” he said.
“This is not to avoid my responsibilities at all. I will do it as long as I am in this position at this club.
“But I feel you need to explain some things at some point in your history.”
Does anyone have the phone numbers for any of the restaurants in New York?
His statements are always full of riddles anyway so will probably have a quick browse of it, swear a bit in frustration and move on.
Apparently making a statement today
He is Ted Rogers and Aston Villa are his Dusty Bin.
So Garde asked for this 2 weeks ago and they've only just around to it?
And why can't Lerner come over here instead of demanding everyone drops everything and comes to him?
So Garde asked for this 2 weeks ago and they've only just around to it?
And why can't Lerner come over here instead of demanding everyone drops everything and comes to him?
Yes David along the lines of "The Shulamites have told me to fuck off, so I am going back to Plan B, only problem is at the minute, I am not sure what Plan B is, so I have asked Tom and what ever his name is to come and have a spot of lunch with me and General Custer to sort one out. I will get back to you in 2 years time when we have it sorted, Proud History, not sure about tomorrow, toodle pip guys"
I can't imagine his comments today about how he shouldn't be the only person to speak out at Villa will go down very well at all with Lerner and Fox. Not that he's wrong of course.
I can't imagine his comments today about how he shouldn't be the only person to speak out at Villa will go down very well at all with Lerner and Fox. Not that he's wrong of course.
Probably not. But it shows that he has the balls to call it out. Fair play to him.
I can't imagine his comments today about how he shouldn't be the only person to speak out at Villa will go down very well at all with Lerner and Fox. Not that he's wrong of course.
Probably not. But it shows that he has the balls to call it out. Fair play to him.
It suggests to me that he's had enough, and isn't overly bothered if he pisses Lerner off or not. Either he spurs the stupid owner into action, or he annoys him and gets to leave before his reputation gets severely tarnished.
Maybe he'll tell us about our latest Delotte ranking.
I can't imagine his comments today about how he shouldn't be the only person to speak out at Villa will go down very well at all with Lerner and Fox. Not that he's wrong of course.
Probably not. But it shows that he has the balls to call it out. Fair play to him.
It suggests to me that he's had enough, and isn't overly bothered if he pisses Lerner off or not. Either he spurs the stupid owner into action, or he annoys him and gets to leave before his reputation gets severely tarnished.
Agreed.
I find it extraordinary that the poor Manager has to virtually beg them to make a statement and to ensure they actually issue one, has to repeat that he requested it two weeks ago at a pre match Press Conference. In all their years of the circus I don't even remember Small Heath managers having to do such things. But I admit there is every likelihood something similarly bizarre would have happened.
I can't imagine his comments today about how he shouldn't be the only person to speak out at Villa will go down very well at all with Lerner and Fox. Not that he's wrong of course.
Probably not. But it shows that he has the balls to call it out. Fair play to him.
It suggests to me that he's had enough, and isn't overly bothered if he pisses Lerner off or not. Either he spurs the stupid owner into action, or he annoys him and gets to leave before his reputation gets severely tarnished.
I think we've finally discovered the identity of the person guilty of redrawing the club badge.
This maybe an old story but old Randy's portrait is hanging from the walls of the National Portrait Gallery
http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw232509/Randolph-Randy-Lerner
You'll be surprised to learn it was done in only one sitting!!
Does anyone have the phone numbers for any of the restaurants in New York?
So Garde asked for this 2 weeks ago and they've only just around to it?
And why can't Lerner come over here instead of demanding everyone drops everything and comes to him?
Like the imminent Chairman and board member, they're fucking numpties mate, they avoid their responsibilities because Aston Villa are a mess and it requires a hell of a lot of hard work and effort to sort it out.
They're having to make a statement because the manager has basically told them he is not the whipping boy who is going to sit their and eat the entire shit sandwich whilst they hide away from the mess they've created.
Credit to Remi for telling them they need to do this, it's a sign he isn't their yes man.
What's the delay? He doesn't strike me as a Bowie fan so can't imagine he's been weeping in his sofa all day while cradling an original pressing of the Diamond Dogs LP to his chest.
He probably ended up with a Zippy tattoo instead.What's the delay? He doesn't strike me as a Bowie fan so can't imagine he's been weeping in his sofa all day while cradling an original pressing of the Diamond Dogs LP to his chest.
He's probably gone out and got a Ziggy tattoo today
I can't imagine his comments today about how he shouldn't be the only person to speak out at Villa will go down very well at all with Lerner and Fox. Not that he's wrong of course.
Probably not. But it shows that he has the balls to call it out. Fair play to him.
It suggests to me that he's had enough, and isn't overly bothered if he pisses Lerner off or not. Either he spurs the stupid owner into action, or he annoys him and gets to leave before his reputation gets severely tarnished.
The below is from the BBC website's preview of tonight's game against Palace and sums up just how poor we've become.
- Aston Villa's Premier League winless run now stands at 19 games (D5, L14) - the joint fourth-worst ever.
- Villa are the only top-flight side not to have won at home this season (D3, L6).
- Villa have conceded the opening goal of a Premier League game on a league-high 15 occasions in 2015-16.
- Aston Villa's tally of eight points is the third lowest after 20 games of a Premier League season. Only Sunderland (six) in 2005-06 and Derby (seven) in 2007-08 had lower totals at this stage. Both were relegated.
- Villa have kept just two clean sheets in this season's Premier League.
Does anyone have the phone numbers for any of the restaurants in New York?Lerner owns his own restaurant on the Haptons. It was Michelin Star when he bought it, but it's just about to lose it's McDonalds franchise.
Does anyone have the phone numbers for any of the restaurants in New York?Lerner owns his own restaurant on the Haptons. It was Michelin Star when he bought it, but it's just about to lose it's McDonalds franchise.
The below is from the BBC website's preview of tonight's game against Palace and sums up just how poor we've become.
- Aston Villa's Premier League winless run now stands at 19 games (D5, L14) - the joint fourth-worst ever.
- Villa are the only top-flight side not to have won at home this season (D3, L6).
- Villa have conceded the opening goal of a Premier League game on a league-high 15 occasions in 2015-16.
- Aston Villa's tally of eight points is the third lowest after 20 games of a Premier League season. Only Sunderland (six) in 2005-06 and Derby (seven) in 2007-08 had lower totals at this stage. Both were relegated.
- Villa have kept just two clean sheets in this season's Premier League.
The below is from the BBC website's preview of tonight's game against Palace and sums up just how poor we've become.
- Aston Villa's Premier League winless run now stands at 19 games (D5, L14) - the joint fourth-worst ever.
- Villa are the only top-flight side not to have won at home this season (D3, L6).
- Villa have conceded the opening goal of a Premier League game on a league-high 15 occasions in 2015-16.
- Aston Villa's tally of eight points is the third lowest after 20 games of a Premier League season. Only Sunderland (six) in 2005-06 and Derby (seven) in 2007-08 had lower totals at this stage. Both were relegated.
- Villa have kept just two clean sheets in this season's Premier League.
Proud History....Shameful Present....Shite Future.
Does anyone have the phone numbers for any of the restaurants in New York?
So when can we expect this statement?
So when can we expect this statement?
There doesn't seem to be any rush.
So when can we expect this statement?
So when can we expect this statement?
Is there anything tangible that suggests that there is going to be any statement?
So when can we expect this statement?
Is there anything tangible that suggests that there is going to be any statement?
So when can we expect this statement?
Is there anything tangible that suggests that there is going to be any statement?
Only Remi saying he asked for one weeks ago. I think if he is messed around this transfer window and has his needs ignored as we stumble from defeat to defeat then he will walk.
So when can we expect this statement?
Is there anything tangible that suggests that there is going to be any statement?
Only Remi saying he asked for one weeks ago.
So when can we expect this statement?
Is there anything tangible that suggests that there is going to be any statement?
Only Remi saying he asked for one weeks ago.
If that's all there is to it, surely any extra statement would come from Fox rather than Lerner?
There'll be a statement on Friday
So when can we expect this statement?
Is there anything tangible that suggests that there is going to be any statement?
Only Remi saying he asked for one weeks ago. I think if he is messed around this transfer window and has his needs ignored as we stumble from defeat to defeat then he will walk.
Agree with this. Reading between the lines he sounds pissed off and has called out the chairman, something none of his predecessors had the balls to do.
There'll be a statement on Friday
I did like Garde's comments about how he'd only been at Villa 10 weeks and couldn't answer for all the club's problems (we are looking at you Lerner, burying your head in the sand in your New York mansion, you coward).
The problem Garde has got is that even if Lerner is willing to spend a decent amount this month, most players don't want to come due to the position we are in, Garde alluded to as much himself.
5 questions Randy Lerner must answer.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-crisis-5-big-10719816
You’re not going to get many Premiership players
5 questions Randy Lerner must answer.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-crisis-5-big-10719816
5 questions Randy Lerner must answer.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-crisis-5-big-10719816
5 questions Randy Lerner must answer.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-crisis-5-big-10719816
Another couple of questions I would like to ask:
1. Are Tom Fox, Henrik Almstad and Paddy Reilly suitable candidates for the roles they are employed in and who made the decision to hire the above three?
2. How is the club preparing for what is now looking like an inevitable drop into the Championship? Will anyone be seeking any advice from people experienced at that level?
5 questions Randy Lerner must answer.I wonder if Randy Lerner has ever heard of the Birmingham Mail..Very noble of the Mail to suddenly take this concerned stance over us.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-crisis-5-big-10719816
Is he actually making a statement or is he on a crack binge?
Is he actually making a statement or is he on a crack binge?
5 questions Randy Lerner won't answer.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-crisis-5-big-10719816
No statement? No signings? No home win in the PL this season? Well done Randy! Silence as usual as if everything is rosy. Pathetic!
I've noticed this thread slipping towards the second page. Lerner gets too easy a ride by staying silent. I see he still hasn't made any statement despite Garde requesting one 2 weeks ago. Such an arrogant person not to address this crisis and support his Manager.
I've noticed this thread slipping towards the second page. Lerner gets too easy a ride by staying silent. I see he still hasn't made any statement despite Garde requesting one 2 weeks ago. Such an arrogant person not to address this crisis and support his Manager.
I think it will be worked on during this weeks meeting with the other two idiots, then something will be released the end of the week or so.
I've noticed this thread slipping towards the second page. Lerner gets too easy a ride by staying silent. I see he still hasn't made any statement despite Garde requesting one 2 weeks ago. Such an arrogant person not to address this crisis and support his Manager.
He needs to help us out now and open the wallet. Imagine the lift we'd have if we went out an bought a striker. Still 8 points behind and we can still do it.
He needs to help us out now and open the wallet. Imagine the lift we'd have if we went out an bought a striker. Still 8 points behind and we can still do it.
Is he actually making a statement or is he on a crack binge?
I read somewhere that 2 players have turned down a transfer, so far. That was before the renaissance against Palace. Everything could have changed, now there's a Chairman as well!Never give up, never lose hope, even if it's only a glimmer!
I look for the slightest hint of hope, these days.
I'm picking up a reference to Galaxy Quest in 'Never give up' which is in itself, a glimmer for Alan Rickman....and hopefully, for Villa. He won in the film, didn't he?I read somewhere that 2 players have turned down a transfer, so far. That was before the renaissance against Palace. Everything could have changed, now there's a Chairman as well!Never give up, never lose hope, even if it's only a glimmer!
I look for the slightest hint of hope, these days.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/488254/Randy-Lerner-Aston-Villa-shambles-nothing-short-criminal
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/488254/Randy-Lerner-Aston-Villa-shambles-nothing-short-criminal
It wasn't but now you mention it, maybe it should be our new motto, Never give up, never surrender!I'm picking up a reference to Galaxy Quest in 'Never give up' which is in itself, a glimmer for Alan Rickman....and hopefully, for Villa. He won in the film, didn't he?I read somewhere that 2 players have turned down a transfer, so far. That was before the renaissance against Palace. Everything could have changed, now there's a Chairman as well!Never give up, never lose hope, even if it's only a glimmer!
I look for the slightest hint of hope, these days.
Desperate stuff, IanJ! ;)
It lost me when it said we'd have to spend £100 million to get out the Championship. Unless he means the top six?
It's good that our plight is being discussed in the mainstream media, but the level of understanding and analysis is superficial.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/488254/Randy-Lerner-Aston-Villa-shambles-nothing-short-criminal
Decent read. What a sad story all of this is.
It lost me when it said we'd have to spend £100 million to get out the Championship. Unless he means the top six?
It's good that our plight is being discussed in the mainstream media, but the level of understanding and analysis is superficial.
I gave up at nobody knowing his number - because billionaires are always that open. As with most of these stories, they've finally woken up to our position but rather than spend a bit of time analysing what's actually gone wrong they go in for hyperbole and easy targets.
As owners go Randy Lerner has had a lot of faults. Nobody disputes that.
But on a measurement of competence I would put at least five others who have been worse at doing what they are paid to do, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Faulkner and Fox.
I do not challenge the view that Lerner's was the final say, but I do challenge very strongly that everything is his fault.
I must go to work.
For me targeting Lerner exclusively can be compared to a boss whose office building is on fire. His secretary rushes in to tell him they are ablaze. He tells her to throw the sprinkler switch. Sprinklers not working. Now, is that the fault of the maintenance engineer sitting in his shed reading girlie magazines or the boss off at Royal Ascot? My personal answer to that question is. Both.
I must go to work.
For me targeting Lerner exclusively can be compared to a boss whose office building is on fire. His secretary rushes in to tell him they are ablaze. He tells her to throw the sprinkler switch. Sprinklers not working. Now, is that the fault of the maintenance engineer sitting in his shed reading girlie magazines or the boss off at Royal Ascot? My personal answer to that question is. Both.
I must go to work.
For me targeting Lerner exclusively can be compared to a boss whose office building is on fire. His secretary rushes in to tell him they are ablaze. He tells her to throw the sprinkler switch. Sprinklers not working. Now, is that the fault of the maintenance engineer sitting in his shed reading girlie magazines or the boss off at Royal Ascot? My personal answer to that question is. Both.
If the boss needed telling that the offices were on fire, it sounds like he hasn't bothered fitting smoke alarms? In which case it's probably not a bad analogy.
RandyMON was like a child who got locked in the local sweet shop, ate all he could and thought he was the dogs gonads, then whenhethe ownerrealizedrealised* he hadateeaten too much of the stock and startedprojectile vomitingleaving shit everywherewanted to blame everyone but himself, ably assisted by putting incompetents in charge of his guts recovery.didn't know what to do and appointed a bizarre mix of people to try and get the shop running properly without really thinking about what that meant and was therefore unable to see what was required.
The general thrust of that article is correct, but it totally neglects the fact Lerner invested huge amounts to start with.
Don't get me wrong, his piss poor leadership combined with five years of under investment are the two major reasons we are getting relegated, but to act as if he didn't have a free-spending spell at all is to ignore the evidence.
As a slight aside, I also don't get the point in throwing in the sales of Delph and Benteke as examples of moving players on and pocketing the cash - both those players had release clauses, what on earth are we meant to do about that?
Benteke's was for £32m which is a gigantic sum of money, and Delph's was £8m - the amount we paid for him, which was clearly a "make sure you get something for me" figure.
When I say "easy targets" I don't mean Lerner per se, but the myths that have been allowed to grow - O'Neill being forced out due to underfunding, the scandalous treatment of Sherwood, the implication that somehow he's coining it in from player sales. None of these are true and they obscure the things he should be getting taken to task about.
It's like Michael Moorer. He does some good stuff but 95 pieces of unarguable evidence is never enough for him; he has to go for the extra five that are either spurious or inaccurate, but which enable his detractors to rubbish the good stuff.
That's the guy. He did Bowling for Columbine.When I say "easy targets" I don't mean Lerner per se, but the myths that have been allowed to grow - O'Neill being forced out due to underfunding, the scandalous treatment of Sherwood, the implication that somehow he's coining it in from player sales. None of these are true and they obscure the things he should be getting taken to task about.
It's like Michael Moorer. He does some good stuff but 95 pieces of unarguable evidence is never enough for him; he has to go for the extra five that are either spurious or inaccurate, but which enable his detractors to rubbish the good stuff.
(http://www.millcreeksports.com/product_images/i/339/s42908__21722.jpg)
?
I must go to work.
For me targeting Lerner exclusively can be compared to a boss whose office building is on fire. His secretary rushes in to tell him they are ablaze. He tells her to throw the sprinkler switch. Sprinklers not working. Now, is that the fault of the maintenance engineer sitting in his shed reading girlie magazines or the boss off at Royal Ascot? My personal answer to that question is. Both.
I must go to work.
For me targeting Lerner exclusively can be compared to a boss whose office building is on fire. His secretary rushes in to tell him they are ablaze. He tells her to throw the sprinkler switch. Sprinklers not working. Now, is that the fault of the maintenance engineer sitting in his shed reading girlie magazines or the boss off at Royal Ascot? My personal answer to that question is. Both.
In this analogy, the boss must have started the fire himself in a corner of the office, after dousing it in petrol and then dropping his lighter onto it.
As owners go Randy Lerner has had a lot of faults. Nobody disputes that.Yet there has been one common denominator, one constant.Without Lerner you don't get the disasters the above have been.
But on a measurement of competence I would put at least five others who have been worse at doing what they are paid to do, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Faulkner and Fox.
I do not challenge the view that Lerner's was the final say, but I do challenge very strongly that everything is his fault.
As owners go Randy Lerner has had a lot of faults. Nobody disputes that.
But on a measurement of competence I would put at least five others who have been worse at doing what they are paid to do, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Faulkner and Fox.
The general thrust of that article is correct, but it totally neglects the fact Lerner invested huge amounts to start with.
Don't get me wrong, his piss poor leadership combined with five years of under investment are the two major reasons we are getting relegated, but to act as if he didn't have a free-spending spell at all is to ignore the evidence.
As a slight aside, I also don't get the point in throwing in the sales of Delph and Benteke as examples of moving players on and pocketing the cash - both those players had release clauses, what on earth are we meant to do about that?
Benteke's was for £32m which is a gigantic sum of money, and Delph's was £8m - the amount we paid for him, which was clearly a "make sure you get something for me" figure.
I agree with the overall gist of your post, but it did seem (from the outside looking in, admittedly) that we were negligent in allowing Delph's contract to run as far as it did before renewing it. The (apparent) enthusiasm with which he signed it certainly suggested that we could have done a deal (and probably not had to include such a pitiful release clause) much, much sooner had we pulled our finger out.
If I were straw clutching I would point out that Sherwood wasn't his call!Nearly every man and his dog wanted Lambert, although the Bomb Squad, young and hungry and lengthening of the contract must lie at Randy's door.
I believe if Benteke and Delph wanted to stay they would have rewarded with better contracts too. No way was they pushed out the door.The general thrust of that article is correct, but it totally neglects the fact Lerner invested huge amounts to start with.
Don't get me wrong, his piss poor leadership combined with five years of under investment are the two major reasons we are getting relegated, but to act as if he didn't have a free-spending spell at all is to ignore the evidence.
As a slight aside, I also don't get the point in throwing in the sales of Delph and Benteke as examples of moving players on and pocketing the cash - both those players had release clauses, what on earth are we meant to do about that?
Benteke's was for £32m which is a gigantic sum of money, and Delph's was £8m - the amount we paid for him, which was clearly a "make sure you get something for me" figure.
I agree with the overall gist of your post, but it did seem (from the outside looking in, admittedly) that we were negligent in allowing Delph's contract to run as far as it did before renewing it. The (apparent) enthusiasm with which he signed it certainly suggested that we could have done a deal (and probably not had to include such a pitiful release clause) much, much sooner had we pulled our finger out.
I don't disagree about Delph but that article specifically focused on us selling him as a sign of our determination to flog our best players. They'd be saying the same (wrongly) if his release clause had been 30m.
I believe if Benteke and Delph wanted to stay they would have rewarded with better contracts too. No way was they pushed out the door.The general thrust of that article is correct, but it totally neglects the fact Lerner invested huge amounts to start with.
Don't get me wrong, his piss poor leadership combined with five years of under investment are the two major reasons we are getting relegated, but to act as if he didn't have a free-spending spell at all is to ignore the evidence.
As a slight aside, I also don't get the point in throwing in the sales of Delph and Benteke as examples of moving players on and pocketing the cash - both those players had release clauses, what on earth are we meant to do about that?
Benteke's was for £32m which is a gigantic sum of money, and Delph's was £8m - the amount we paid for him, which was clearly a "make sure you get something for me" figure.
I agree with the overall gist of your post, but it did seem (from the outside looking in, admittedly) that we were negligent in allowing Delph's contract to run as far as it did before renewing it. The (apparent) enthusiasm with which he signed it certainly suggested that we could have done a deal (and probably not had to include such a pitiful release clause) much, much sooner had we pulled our finger out.
I don't disagree about Delph but that article specifically focused on us selling him as a sign of our determination to flog our best players. They'd be saying the same (wrongly) if his release clause had been 30m.
There is so many things wrong at the club but the Press and the pundits get it so wrong too.
I believe if Benteke and Delph wanted to stay they would have rewarded with better contracts too. No way was they pushed out the door.The general thrust of that article is correct, but it totally neglects the fact Lerner invested huge amounts to start with.
Don't get me wrong, his piss poor leadership combined with five years of under investment are the two major reasons we are getting relegated, but to act as if he didn't have a free-spending spell at all is to ignore the evidence.
As a slight aside, I also don't get the point in throwing in the sales of Delph and Benteke as examples of moving players on and pocketing the cash - both those players had release clauses, what on earth are we meant to do about that?
Benteke's was for £32m which is a gigantic sum of money, and Delph's was £8m - the amount we paid for him, which was clearly a "make sure you get something for me" figure.
I agree with the overall gist of your post, but it did seem (from the outside looking in, admittedly) that we were negligent in allowing Delph's contract to run as far as it did before renewing it. The (apparent) enthusiasm with which he signed it certainly suggested that we could have done a deal (and probably not had to include such a pitiful release clause) much, much sooner had we pulled our finger out.
I don't disagree about Delph but that article specifically focused on us selling him as a sign of our determination to flog our best players. They'd be saying the same (wrongly) if his release clause had been 30m.
There is so many things wrong at the club but the Press and the pundits get it so wrong too.
I'm sure I read somewhere that we wanted to sell Delph.
The Mirror, Sun, Star or Mail by any chance?I believe if Benteke and Delph wanted to stay they would have rewarded with better contracts too. No way was they pushed out the door.The general thrust of that article is correct, but it totally neglects the fact Lerner invested huge amounts to start with.
Don't get me wrong, his piss poor leadership combined with five years of under investment are the two major reasons we are getting relegated, but to act as if he didn't have a free-spending spell at all is to ignore the evidence.
As a slight aside, I also don't get the point in throwing in the sales of Delph and Benteke as examples of moving players on and pocketing the cash - both those players had release clauses, what on earth are we meant to do about that?
Benteke's was for £32m which is a gigantic sum of money, and Delph's was £8m - the amount we paid for him, which was clearly a "make sure you get something for me" figure.
I agree with the overall gist of your post, but it did seem (from the outside looking in, admittedly) that we were negligent in allowing Delph's contract to run as far as it did before renewing it. The (apparent) enthusiasm with which he signed it certainly suggested that we could have done a deal (and probably not had to include such a pitiful release clause) much, much sooner had we pulled our finger out.
I don't disagree about Delph but that article specifically focused on us selling him as a sign of our determination to flog our best players. They'd be saying the same (wrongly) if his release clause had been 30m.
There is so many things wrong at the club but the Press and the pundits get it so wrong too.
I'm sure I read somewhere that we wanted to sell Delph.
To be honest we could have lost delph and recovered anyway. He doesn't belong on a list with Milner, young and benteke.
I read the other day that in the three years since Randy Lerner sold the Browns the value of that franchise has increased by 500 million dollars. I highlight this to ask how on earth does his mind work as a businessman?He is not a Business man, he inherited a fortune.
I read the other day that in the three years since Randy Lerner sold the Browns the value of that franchise has increased by 500 million dollars. I highlight this to ask how on earth does his mind work as a businessman?
All NFL franchises are worth more than ever because the NFL simply prints money. America's number 1 sport and they have a monster TV deal ($27bn deal signed in 2014). The Browns have been every bit as shit since Randy sold the team arguably more so. Their current valuation has no real correlation to who owns it or who used to own it.
Billy, he had a buyer for the Browns. No such luck yet for the Villa. If only.
A good statement that Joe-c and something I remember along those lines too, but even from those days of engagement and interest, his lack of business nous especially regarding finance should have been there to be seen, of course we were not telling him to stop spending and paying at least the going wage for a top half club, but he must have come in with a ball park figure of how much he wanted to invest and over what period, even Chelski amd Man oil have the target to be self financing at some stage, not that there doing very well on that front.
Inherited wealth spunked down the drain through lack of a business brain and as seems to be the case even now, only surround yourself with people who are not going to highlight your fuck ups.
Oh the General, the little wag, what fun he had pulling us along by our twinkies.
Oh the General, the little wag, what fun he had pulling us along by our twinkies.
Brave General Krulak. Reminds me of that Monty Python song - "When danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned around and fled, brave brave brave General Krulak..."
How many managers actually resign? Unless he has been truly undermined by the club it wouldn't exactly be good for his career to be seen as someone who quit his job. I think his disappointment is genuine because he wanted certain players and for a number of reasons he didn't get them. It's not all the board's fault, but they have to shoulder a large part of the blame (Randy/Fox specifically) for us being where we are prior to Garde arriving. It certainly hasn't been helped that the gap to safety has widened since Garde arrived.
I think it'd be perfectly justifiable to walk given that he's clearly been completely screwed over.
It's ok for Learner, all he's lost is money.
We as supporters have lost a damn sight more than that.
We ain't ticking over though. We're sinking. Not enough effort to shore up the sinking ship.It's ok for Learner, all he's lost is money.
We as supporters have lost a damn sight more than that.
So should he continue to throw his money at the club because we supporters stand to lose out? I just don’t get a comment like this at all. Has he made an utter and total mess of it, damn right he has, but he’s hardly going to keep chucking his money in when he clearly wants to sell up. I hate what’s happening as much as anyone else, but he is only going to keep us ticking over until he can find a new owner.
It's ok for Learner, all he's lost is money.
We as supporters have lost a damn sight more than that.
We ain't ticking over though. We're sinking. Not enough effort to shore up the sinking ship.It's ok for Learner, all he's lost is money.
We as supporters have lost a damn sight more than that.
So should he continue to throw his money at the club because we supporters stand to lose out? I just don’t get a comment like this at all. Has he made an utter and total mess of it, damn right he has, but he’s hardly going to keep chucking his money in when he clearly wants to sell up. I hate what’s happening as much as anyone else, but he is only going to keep us ticking over until he can find a new owner.
Now do you get it NeilH?
I am a huge critic of Lerner and have been for a very long time.I tend to agree with this.
However I do stop at the "he did this on purpose", "he is serving his own interests"
He has been a disaster as an owner and leader, incompetent, negligent, naive,useless even stupid but vindictive no.
Just completely out of his depth and even now has no idea of how to bail us out of this mess and is trying to hide behind the new Chairman and hopes it all goes away.
If this is Lerner keeping us 'ticking over', god help us if he really loses interest!Something I learnt a long time ago, it is impossible to stand still in Business.
He's not malicious. He's just a really, really shit businessman.
We've still got an Aston Villa to support?
Anyone enjoying the experience the past 5 years and 200 odd games? Losing the majority of your games, being pound for pound results wise the worst team in entire league? Selling your footballers and replacing them with semi retired no bodies.
We've still got an Aston Villa to support?
Anyone enjoying the experience the past 5 years and 200 odd games? Losing the majority of your games, being pound for pound results wise the worst team in entire league? Selling your footballers and replacing them with semi retired no bodies.
Of course nobody is enjoying it but we are just going through what countless fans of other teams have gone through before us, we aren't the first to experience a total meltdown in the boardroom and on the pitch and we certainly won't be the last.
Now the choice is yours, you can give up and go and do something else with your spare time or you can carry on supporting and hopefully in as short a time as possible look back on all this with a rueful grin and a whole load of "I was there when...." tales as we storm to the Premier League title in 2020.
I just can't see us stabilising with these fuck wits running throughout the club. Every decision they make leaves me shaking my head. You promise we win the league in 2020?
You'll be watching Tamworth win the league before Villa I reckon!
I just can't see us stabilising with these fuck wits running throughout the club. Every decision they make leaves me shaking my head. You promise we win the league in 2020?
No promises!
We ain't ticking over though. We're sinking. Not enough effort to shore up the sinking ship.It's ok for Learner, all he's lost is money.
We as supporters have lost a damn sight more than that.
So should he continue to throw his money at the club because we supporters stand to lose out? I just don’t get a comment like this at all. Has he made an utter and total mess of it, damn right he has, but he’s hardly going to keep chucking his money in when he clearly wants to sell up. I hate what’s happening as much as anyone else, but he is only going to keep us ticking over until he can find a new owner.
We ain't ticking over though. We're sinking. Not enough effort to shore up the sinking ship.It's ok for Learner, all he's lost is money.
We as supporters have lost a damn sight more than that.
So should he continue to throw his money at the club because we supporters stand to lose out? I just don’t get a comment like this at all. Has he made an utter and total mess of it, damn right he has, but he’s hardly going to keep chucking his money in when he clearly wants to sell up. I hate what’s happening as much as anyone else, but he is only going to keep us ticking over until he can find a new owner.
We were fatally holed years ago. A succession of botched repairs have kept the waves away, but not this time.
It is genuinely a sad day when Aston Villa decides it can't be bothered to save itself from relegation.
If this is Lerner keeping us 'ticking over', god help us if he really loses interest!
We ain't ticking over though. We're sinking. Not enough effort to shore up the sinking ship.It's ok for Learner, all he's lost is money.
We as supporters have lost a damn sight more than that.
So should he continue to throw his money at the club because we supporters stand to lose out? I just don’t get a comment like this at all. Has he made an utter and total mess of it, damn right he has, but he’s hardly going to keep chucking his money in when he clearly wants to sell up. I hate what’s happening as much as anyone else, but he is only going to keep us ticking over until he can find a new owner.
We were fatally holed years ago. A succession of botched repairs have kept the waves away, but not this time.
It is genuinely a sad day when Aston Villa decides it can't be bothered to save itself from relegation.
I would imagine that £150m asking price will fall when the inevitable happens. Well done, Lerner. Talk about chopping your nose off to spite your face.
I wish I could draw a chalk penis on his back
Lerner, I've said it for years and got heavily criticised for it, is fucking useless!!
This is a new low point isn't it. And if they do this what else are they likely to do. I suppose some people just don't care if they become despised.
well we're not in Division Three yet so no new nadirs as the momentI wouldn't hold your breath.
I urge all villa fans to show their extreme displeasure on Saturday. The worst custodian of our club in our history.
At this rate he'll be lucky to get what he initially paid for us. Just sell the bloody club please, you clearly don't give a shit about it any more so pass it on to someone who does.
His plan must be: relegation, pocket the "prize" money and then sell the Club for as much as possible. He's shafting the lot of us.
His plan must be: relegation, pocket the "prize" money and then sell the Club for as much as possible. He's shafting the lot of us.I'm no genius inheritance child but surely a better plan would be to stay up and pocket the prize money?
What I am struggling to understand is how, having written off loans of £90m, we still have a net debt of £100m. To be honest, I have not followed the accounts closely and missed any comments on here 12 months ago about this.
It was reported that Lerner wanted £150m for the club but is this really £250m with the debt.
What I am struggling to understand is how, having written off loans of £90m, we still have a net debt of £100m. To be honest, I have not followed the accounts closely and missed any comments on here 12 months ago about this.His total investment is over 250 million, including purchase of 65millio and loans of 200million + some of which he has capitalised.The trust has been taking interest and management charges so his real exposure is estimated 230 to 270, without seein the latest accounts difficult to be exact.
It was reported that Lerner wanted £150m for the club but is this really £250m with the debt.
What I am struggling to understand is how, having written off loans of £90m, we still have a net debt of £100m. To be honest, I have not followed the accounts closely and missed any comments on here 12 months ago about this.His total investment is over 250 million, including purchase of 65millio and loans of 200million + some of which he has capitalised.The trust has been taking interest and management charges so his real exposure is estimated 230 to 270, without seein the latest accounts difficult to be exact.
It was reported that Lerner wanted £150m for the club but is this really £250m with the debt.
He put it on the market for 250+, dropped to 200+ and then had no takers at 150.
There were discussions (allegedly at 90million).
With what Hollis has said in recent weeks, the whole thing at the moment has the feeling of a closing down sale. Not sure if others feel that way.
What I am struggling to understand is how, having written off loans of £90m, we still have a net debt of £100m. To be honest, I have not followed the accounts closely and missed any comments on here 12 months ago about this.His total investment is over 250 million, including purchase of 65millio and loans of 200million + some of which he has capitalised.The trust has been taking interest and management charges so his real exposure is estimated 230 to 270, without seein the latest accounts difficult to be exact.
It was reported that Lerner wanted £150m for the club but is this really £250m with the debt.
He put it on the market for 250+, dropped to 200+ and then had no takers at 150.
There were discussions (allegedly at 90million).
Don't know if it has been posted before but just looked him up on Wikipedia and his occupation is listed as "gutless coward" 😊
You might be right but there were significant charges in the first years.What I am struggling to understand is how, having written off loans of £90m, we still have a net debt of £100m. To be honest, I have not followed the accounts closely and missed any comments on here 12 months ago about this.His total investment is over 250 million, including purchase of 65millio and loans of 200million + some of which he has capitalised.The trust has been taking interest and management charges so his real exposure is estimated 230 to 270, without seein the latest accounts difficult to be exact.
It was reported that Lerner wanted £150m for the club but is this really £250m with the debt.
He put it on the market for 250+, dropped to 200+ and then had no takers at 150.
There were discussions (allegedly at 90million).
I thought all of those had been waived after the first couple of years?
You might be right but there were significant charges in the first years.What I am struggling to understand is how, having written off loans of £90m, we still have a net debt of £100m. To be honest, I have not followed the accounts closely and missed any comments on here 12 months ago about this.His total investment is over 250 million, including purchase of 65millio and loans of 200million + some of which he has capitalised.The trust has been taking interest and management charges so his real exposure is estimated 230 to 270, without seein the latest accounts difficult to be exact.
It was reported that Lerner wanted £150m for the club but is this really £250m with the debt.
He put it on the market for 250+, dropped to 200+ and then had no takers at 150.
There were discussions (allegedly at 90million).
I thought all of those had been waived after the first couple of years?
Another thing that happened was that non- playing and coaching staff numbers went up significantly without any real explanation.You might be right but there were significant charges in the first years.What I am struggling to understand is how, having written off loans of £90m, we still have a net debt of £100m. To be honest, I have not followed the accounts closely and missed any comments on here 12 months ago about this.His total investment is over 250 million, including purchase of 65millio and loans of 200million + some of which he has capitalised.The trust has been taking interest and management charges so his real exposure is estimated 230 to 270, without seein the latest accounts difficult to be exact.
It was reported that Lerner wanted £150m for the club but is this really £250m with the debt.
He put it on the market for 250+, dropped to 200+ and then had no takers at 150.
There were discussions (allegedly at 90million).
I thought all of those had been waived after the first couple of years?
I know for one season, it may have been 2009/10 that there were £7.7m in management fees.
Hollis has only just started and is operating under the mandate agreed with Lerner.With what Hollis has said in recent weeks, the whole thing at the moment has the feeling of a closing down sale. Not sure if others feel that way.
No point having a go at Lerner, he is now totally removed. Hollis has been brought in to ensure the books balance and I had a sneaky feeling all along that bringing players in this window would be reliant on the bigger earners such as N'Zogbia and Agbonlahor being moved on.
Don't know if it has been posted before but just looked him up on Wikipedia and his occupation is listed as "gutless coward" 😊
Thought to be the worst chairman in Aston Villa history with a poor record and not a single trophy to his name.
As fans, we seem to be being fed a stream of PR spin to cover up what is actually going on. This has today resulted in a massive gap being created between the supporters and the club. Can that gap be bridged? I very much doubt it unless some straight honest talking is carried out.
I thought I would not see the dark depressing days of DOL and HDE again but we are here again and worse. These are unprecedented times that the club are facing and serious questions need to be asked and answered.
A special message for Lerner, Hollis and Fox:
(http://i.giphy.com/lXiRlbiuPYe3z2LVS.gif)
Fuck you; fuck you and the horses you rode in on, you set of useless, spineless, brainless, talentless, incompetent fucks.
As stated earlier, I do not see this as being done in any sense of spite by Lerner, it is due to his total incompetence, this is plain to see with the people he puts into positions, but what I can't get my head around is Fox and Arsestadt came from a very well run club, Arsenal, so must have some idea as to the foundations of running a department, division, whatever they are responsible for in a professional way. Hollis to early to say, Reilly worries me as his buys at Liverpool were not a great success.
So I keep coming back to the same conclusion, Randy likes to employ people who will lie for him and face the day to day abuse, as stated earlier Dave Woodhall and not with hypocrisy but with hindsight, the General was the first of these cronies, Faulkner for certain another, now we have Fox and Hollis. My concern is these idiots are telling Randy what they are telling us, but Randy believes them and that he will hold on to the club until it turns the corner on this bit of inconvenience we are suffering at the moment.
God help us.
As fans, we seem to be being fed a stream of PR spin to cover up what is actually going on. This has today resulted in a massive gap being created between the supporters and the club. Can that gap be bridged? I very much doubt it unless some straight honest talking is carried out.
I thought I would not see the dark depressing days of DOL and HDE again but we are here again and worse. These are unprecedented times that the club are facing and serious questions need to be asked and answered.
As time goes by I am increasingly uncomfortable with the way the club's version of what happened with MON became the accepted narrative.
So many clubs outspend and out-compete with villa these days. DO we not share the same TV riches as they do? A few years ago we used to say 'going down would be a disaster, think of the TV money next year'. Then the following year we would spend, net £10m on freebies and bargain basement.
I do not like what has been unfolding before our eyes and the way people have accepted the club's version every time.
Stilian Petrov - meh???
I wish to god we had someone with his ability to look after the team on the field today.
Stilian Petrov - meh???
I wish to god we had someone with his ability to look after the team on the field today.
Excuse the long post, wondering where things started to go so wrong, I wanted to see this information all in one place.
When Lerner took over in 05/06 our squad included, Angel, Vassell, Baros, L Moore (joint top scorer with 8 goals) Hendrie, Whittingham, Solano, Davis, Bouma, Cahill, Mellberg, Laursen, Sorenson. We finished 16th, on 42 points, 8 points from safety.
Ive listed the transfers we've made in Lerners era, sorry for reminding you of some of these...I've colour coded them...
Red for flops,
Orange for meh, what you'd expect for what we paid standard signings, a bit generous with some of these maybe. eg Enda Stevens 500k signed from shamrock rovers, didnt play but as expected. Agathe and Sutton signed at difficult time didn't feature much, as expected etc.
Green for the undoubted succeses, I'm including Downing here because of what we got for him more than performances.
06/07 Spent £17.15M Net Spend £14.1M Average League Spend £16M
Stilian Petrov
Didier Agathe
Chris Sutton
John Carew
Ashley Young
Shaun Maloney
07/08 Spent £16.25M Net Spend £6.25M Average League Spend £32.25M
Marlon Harewood
Zat Knight
Moustapha Salifou
Wayne Routledge
Nigel Reo-Coker
08/09 Spent £48.4M Net Spend £45.3M Average League Spend £33.5M
Curtis Davis
Steven Sidwell
Brad Friedel
Nicky Shorey
Luke Young
Carlos Cuellar
James Milner
Brad Guzan
Emile Heskey
09/10 Spent £37.5M Net Spend £18.5M Average League Spend £24M
Stewart Downing
Fabian Delph
Habib Beye
Stephen Warnock
James Collins
Richard Dunne
10/11 Spent £32.2M Net Spend £4.7M Average League Spend £29.5M
Stephen Ireland
Darren Bent
Jean Makoun
11/12 Spent £17.25M Net Spend £-22.75M Average League Spend £27.25M
Shay Given
Charles N'Zogbia
Alan Hutton
Enda Stevens
12/13 Spent £25.7M Net Spend £23.7M Average League Spend £30.5M
Brett Holman
Karim El Ahmadi
Matthew Lowton
Brad Guzan
Ron Vlaar
Joseph Bennett
Jordan Bowery
Ashley Westwood
Christian Benteke
Yacouba Sylla
13/14 Spent £18.5M Net Spend £16.5M Average League Spend £38M
Antonio Luna
Nicklas Helenius
Aleksanar Tonev
Leandro Bacuna
Libor Kozak
Jed Steer
14/15 Spent £9.9M Net Spend £8.95M Average League Spend £48.25M
Carlos Sanchez
Phillipe Senderos
Joe Cole
Kieran Richardson
Aly Cissokho
Carles Gil
15/16 Spent £52.5M Net Spend £7.25M Average League Spend £52.25M
Jordan Ayew
Jordan Amavi
Jordan Veretout
Adama Traore
Idrissa Gueye
Rudy Gestede
Scott Sinclair
Joleon Lescott
Jose Crespo
Mark Bunn
Micah Richards
Obviously looking at our spending in the MON era you can see that we spent big money in a couple of windows, but the quality was largely average and when we sold Barry, Young, Milner and Downing we had very little left. Benteke and Delph were the last truly quality players we had and we haven't replaced them. Ever since MON when we have spent big sums it has been in keeping with the average amounts in the league, but while we are in a weak position. This summers spending felt decent at the time, but its the previous couple of seasons which have truly fucked us over.
The writings been on the wall for a long time I think.
That post is very interesting django and also should highlight that if the finances have been mishandled , it is clearly within the contract issuing side more so than actual player fees, plus the payments to managers we have put out of work.
Shows an average net spend of 13.15 million a season over the ten years, gross spend off 27.57 million a season, league average over the same time 33.15 million per season, incoming fees of 14 million a season.
Players in and out of 45 over the ten seasons and only 5 players apart from those brought in August that are still here or on loan.
First five seasons 88.85 million in total net, averaging 17.7 million a season
Last five seasons 42.65 million in total net, averaging 8.53 million a season.
So half the spend in the last 5 years, but interestingly 29 players in first 5 years spending an average 17.7 per season
37 players in the last 5 years spending 8.53 on average per season. Equating to average player cost first 5 years 3.05 million, to the spend on the last 5 years 1.15 million per player.
Buy monkeys but dont feed them peanuts, in Villas case buy monkeys and feed them caviar in the form of their contract.
That post is very interesting django and also should highlight that if the finances have been mishandled , it is clearly within the contract issuing side more so than actual player fees, plus the payments to managers we have put out of work.
Shows an average net spend of 13.15 million a season over the ten years, gross spend off 27.57 million a season, league average over the same time 33.15 million per season, incoming fees of 14 million a season.
Players in and out of 45 over the ten seasons and only 5 players apart from those brought in August that are still here or on loan.
First five seasons 88.85 million in total net, averaging 17.7 million a season
Last five seasons 42.65 million in total net, averaging 8.53 million a season.
So half the spend in the last 5 years, but interestingly 29 players in first 5 years spending an average 17.7 per season
37 players in the last 5 years spending 8.53 on average per season. Equating to average player cost first 5 years 3.05 million, to the spend on the last 5 years 1.15 million per player.
Buy monkeys but dont feed them peanuts, in Villas case buy monkeys and feed them caviar in the form of their contract.
Luke Young was not a flop He performed decently at both right and left back!
VID there's a surprise you disagree with what I have wrote, just for a change hey.
If you read another post further down that page I state that from memory 27 players on that list left on a free, had contract cancelled or never came close to what we paid for them, this is poorly balanced out on the likes of Downing, Benteke etc and also you are agreeing with my point, even thou you don't realise it and how painful that will be when you acknowledge it, that the contracts issued placed the club numerous times in a position where they were willing to let go for nothing, cancel or take a big hit.
Look forward to your next post.
Good to see that in black and white - or red, yellow and green.
Of course the average will be swelled by the top 4, who can spunk £150 million in one window (Yanited) or £50 million + on one player (Citeh).
An average for the 16 clubs below the top 4 would be interesting, and I'd still say we'd be below average even compared to that lot since at least 2013.
To clarify the above post, it can be classed as staggering (13.5 mill) if we have been as mismanaged both on the playing and admin side like we have been , I suppose.
I can't recall bringing through a single decent youth player in the last 4 to 5 years. What have they been doing down there?
I can't recall bringing through a single decent youth player in the last 4 to 5 years. What have they been doing down there?
Well Grealish isn't bad. Even if things have gone to shit for him lately.
How much does it cost a year to run the academy? serious question
How much does it cost a year to run the academy? serious question
How much does it cost a year to run the academy? serious question
I seem to remember when Lerner took over he put £3m a year in, doubt it's that now. Not sure if that's an accurate amount though to be honest.
I can't recall bringing through a single decent youth player in the last 4 to 5 years. What have they been doing down there?
Well Grealish isn't bad. Even if things have gone to shit for him lately.
I can't recall bringing through a single decent youth player in the last 4 to 5 years. What have they been doing down there?
Well Grealish isn't bad. Even if things have gone to shit for him lately.
He's not as good as Berahino or Sturridge, you could argue he's achieved less than a fair few Small Heath youngsters too.
If we're never going to bother paying for good players again we could at least get good at spotting them.
Or he just played the players he knew, had a relationship with and thought he could motivate.
Either way it was a shit line up that didn't use our better players.
Or he just played the players he knew, had a relationship with and thought he could motivate.
Either way it was a shit line up that didn't use our better players.
Stop defending him ;)
The Southampton line up was a disgrace and he just helped grow the divide between the newcomers and the old guard. As big a fuck you to everyone as I've seen for a while. He should follow Fox out of the door, both incompetents.
A special message for Lerner, Hollis and Fox:
(http://i.giphy.com/lXiRlbiuPYe3z2LVS.gif)
Fuck you; fuck you and the horses you rode in on, you set of useless, spineless, brainless, talentless, incompetent fucks.
The situation isn't funny but this cracks me up.
Walk the plank, Yank
KMac needs throwing out of the door with the rest of the shit for the way he spat his dummy when Sherwood got binned. Whilst the games he took charge of, whilst perhaps not the easiest fixtures, his arrogance and I'll show you attitude to the board and somewhat the rest of us in his team selection was nothing more than scandalous. There was always the outside chance with the correct line-up we may just have gained something making a difference. Fuck him off.
How much does it cost a year to run the academy? serious question
...and how long to ruin it?
KMac needs throwing out of the door with the rest of the shit for the way he spat his dummy when Sherwood got binned. Whilst the games he took charge of, whilst perhaps not the easiest fixtures, his arrogance and I'll show you attitude to the board and somewhat the rest of us in his team selection was nothing more than scandalous. There was always the outside chance with the correct line-up we may just have gained something making a difference. Fuck him off.
Buying in £55m worth is pointless when you sell £40m worth the summer after you finish 17th.It might have worked if we'd used it to build a decent quality spine.
A special message for Lerner, Hollis and Fox:
(http://i.giphy.com/lXiRlbiuPYe3z2LVS.gif)
Fuck you; fuck you and the horses you rode in on, you set of useless, spineless, brainless, talentless, incompetent fucks.
The situation isn't funny but this cracks me up.
I prefer "fuckers" to "fucks" because British.
I bet Randy doesn't see points, more likely to be what the annountancy books are saying.
18 Newcastle United 23 5 6 12 -16 21
19 Sunderland 24 5 4 15 -19 19
20 Aston Villa. 24 2 7 15 -22 13
RANDY, ARE YOU PROUD OF THIS ?
I bet Randy doesn't see points, more likely to be what the annountancy books are saying.
18 Newcastle United 23 5 6 12 -16 21
19 Sunderland 24 5 4 15 -19 19
20 Aston Villa. 24 2 7 15 -22 13
RANDY, ARE YOU PROUD OF THIS ?
Buying in £55m worth is pointless when you sell £40m worth the summer after you finish 17th.It might have worked if we'd used it to build a decent quality spine.
Good point about the TV money though. The wages were probably greater than the TV money for a while but not now, surely?
In a couple of months it will be a decade since Cahill made his league debut for us. Does that make anyone else feel very old?No. It's being at the match where Brian Little scored in the FA Youth Cup semi final that does it but I know what you are saying!
Thank you Randy for gifting us this humiliation.I bet Randy doesn't see points, more likely to be what the annountancy books are saying.
18 Newcastle United 23 5 6 12 -16 21
19 Sunderland 24 5 4 15 -19 19
20 Aston Villa. 24 2 7 15 -22 13
RANDY, ARE YOU PROUD OF THIS ?
Those numbers are every bit as shit. In fact the league table probably looks better.
Neglect is a form of abuse.
Neglect is a form of abuse.
It is rather odd calling for someone to leave the club, when they are actively looking for a way to leave the club.Tom Fox, quoted as saying, "I don't think he's a motivated seller right now. I think he'll want to make sure that he's put Aston Villa on the best possible path for the future."
I thought vile Villa fans want him dead.
It is rather odd calling for someone to leave the club, when they are actively looking for a way to leave the club.
It is rather odd calling for someone to leave the club, when they are actively looking for a way to leave the club.
It is rather odd calling for someone to leave the club, when they are actively looking for a way to leave the club.
No, it's not odd at all.
We're just trying to chivvy him up a bit. To remind him that we're watching, and that he needs to re-double his efforts, even if he has to drop the price.
First season I can ever recall where i'd quite happily end it now and cut straight to the summer. I've never felt that about any other season even when we were poor before.
So do I, thoroughly disillusioned, angry and with a severe dose of the "fuck ems". Please let it be over before Easter.First season I can ever recall where i'd quite happily end it now and cut straight to the summer. I've never felt that about any other season even when we were poor before.
I completely agree.
First season I can ever recall where i'd quite happily end it now and cut straight to the summer. I've never felt that about any other season even when we were poor before.
I know in the grand scheme of things it's not that important, but when Ranky Lerner finally relinquishes his custodianship of our beautiful club can we please have a new badge. I actually hate looking at it now as it reminds me of his pathetic efforts in charge of the Villa.
I know in the grand scheme of things it's not that important, but when Ranky Lerner finally relinquishes his custodianship of our beautiful club can we please have a new badge. I actually hate looking at it now as it reminds me of his pathetic efforts in charge of the Villa.
Agreed. Bring back the round one the actually had "ASTON VILLA" written on it
It is rather odd calling for someone to leave the club, when they are actively looking for a way to leave the club.
Randy won't be allowed to sell unless he gets permission from his mom...and she knows even less about soccer than him, Fox and Hollis do (amazingly).
It is rather odd calling for someone to leave the club, when they are actively looking for a way to leave the club.
No, it's not odd at all.
We're just trying to chivvy him up a bit. To remind him that we're watching, and that he needs to re-double his efforts, even if he has to drop the price.
And remind him what an utter disgrace he has been as owner of our great club.
I know in the grand scheme of things it's not that important, but when Ranky Lerner finally relinquishes his custodianship of our beautiful club can we please have a new badge. I actually hate looking at it now as it reminds me of his pathetic efforts in charge of the Villa.
The current badge is utter drivel. It should have served as a stark warning to us all when we were told that fucking idiot designed it.
The current badge is utter drivel. It should have served as a stark warning to us all when we were told that fucking idiot designed it.
So many things wrong with it but the worst is that fucking star.
Lerner is a cock, not that he's worried a number people from an island he will never visit again think so. But I do wish him ill, and misfortune with all his dealings , I am not bitter, just how has a cock like him managed to hang on to half of his pocket money.
lerner is a cock
Randy won't be allowed to sell unless he gets permission from his mom...and she knows even less about soccer than him, Fox and Hollis do (amazingly).
Did she stop us buying Oedipus this window?
Lerner is a cock, not that he's worried a number people from an island he will never visit again think so. But I do wish him ill, and misfortune with all his dealings , I am not bitter, just how has a cock like him managed to hang on to half of his pocket money.
lerner is a cock
Care to expand on that?
Randy won't be allowed to sell unless he gets permission from his mom...and she knows even less about soccer than him, Fox and Hollis do (amazingly).Does Ma now have control of the Lerner fortune? It would explain the zero spend in the window, she's not going to give a flying fuck about Junior's folly is she? And she's unlikely to be prepared to take a hit in the sale either. Tough times ahead if Ma is calling the shots I fear...
Proven football insiders like FitzGerald moving on within months, MON walking after a meeting with Lerner, the General's mysterious overnight disappearance when things got tough, that dreadful badge design............. all the signs were there that they were being found at our amateurs.
The current badge is utter drivel. It should have served as a stark warning to us all when we were told that fucking idiot designed it.
So many things wrong with it but the worst is that fucking star.
That "fucking idiot" could do no wrong at the time and anyone saying a bad word about the star was shouted down.
Proven football insiders like FitzGerald moving on within months, MON walking after a meeting with Lerner, the General's mysterious overnight disappearance when things got tough, that dreadful badge design............. all the signs were there that they were being found at our amateurs.
I'd go for that.
1. The current badge is awful.
2. Just as that was "designed" to mark a break from the Ellis years, the same need for a clean break is there again.
3. Unless there are good copyright / legal issues why not, that badge will always be associated with the Saunders years from division 2 to League Champions and the Barton achievements of Rotterdam and the Super Cup win over dirty f##king bastards from Barcelona.
Failing that a simple embroidered lion (proper lion rampant) with Aston Villa written underneath. Gold (not custard yellow) lion and lettering on the home shirt, claret or blue for away shirts depending on shirt colour.I know in the grand scheme of things it's not that important, but when Ranky Lerner finally relinquishes his custodianship of our beautiful club can we please have a new badge. I actually hate looking at it now as it reminds me of his pathetic efforts in charge of the Villa.
He should do it already. For next season. Something that will cost next to fuck all and will please the vast majority of fans. For the sake of it not being 'his' then bring back the 80s shield crest or even the 90s stripy one until he fucks off. Too many clubs have these circular crests with a lion rampant in the middle though.
Just a gold lion rampant for me, no shield around it. Maybe a banner underneath with Aston Villa FC Est. 1874 under it.
Had this discussion a million times on here though.
They shouldn't have been. If it couldn't be placed on symmetrically or outside of the crest (PL rules allowing) then it shouldn't have gone on, shouldn't have gone on at all really.
Lerner is a cock, not that he's worried a number people from an island he will never visit again think so. But I do wish him ill, and misfortune with all his dealings , I am not bitter, just how has a cock like him managed to hang on to half of his pocket money.
lerner is a cock
Care to expand on that?
ffs
ok, I DONT LIKE HIM AND HOPE THE BRISTLES ON HIS TOOTH BRUSH ALL FALL OUT.
Hope that's clear Denmark, can you elaborate on your comment??
I hope that once a month he steps on a piece of lego. Barefoot as well!!
We haven't won a trophy since we changed the badge. FACE THE FACTS SHEEPLE!!We been struggling since I moved my ST seats to upper Witton End from Holy Trinity at the start of season 10/11. So please forgive Lerner it's all my fault.
In reality the badge is meh, but I haven't liked any since the round one.
We haven't won a trophy since we changed the badge. FACE THE FACTS SHEEPLE!!We been struggling since I moved my ST seats to upper Witton End from Holy Trinity at the start of season 10/11. So please forgive Lerner it's all my fault.
In reality the badge is meh, but I haven't liked any since the round one.
We haven't won a trophy since we changed the badge. FACE THE FACTS SHEEPLE!!We been struggling since I moved my ST seats to upper Witton End from Holy Trinity at the start of season 10/11. So please forgive Lerner it's all my fault.
In reality the badge is meh, but I haven't liked any since the round one.
Wimps the lot of you. You have never experienced pain unless you have trodden barefoot on a three pin plug lying on its back, prongs upwards.
Or forced to play next Sunday morning on Greets Green Rec with the wind whistling across the pitches and have the ball slap against his thigh.
Wimps the lot of you. You have never experienced pain unless you have trodden barefoot on a three pin plug lying on its back, prongs upwards.
Ahem...Or forced to play next Sunday morning on Greets Green Rec with the wind whistling across the pitches and have the ball slap against his thigh.
The worst pain known to man.
We haven't won a trophy since we changed the badge. FACE THE FACTS SHEEPLE!!We been struggling since I moved my ST seats to upper Witton End from Holy Trinity at the start of season 10/11. So please forgive Lerner it's all my fault.
In reality the badge is meh, but I haven't liked any since the round one.
Are sure? It's usually Legion that breaks things.
Certainly is, remember that feeling very well from school in Tividale.You went to school? OK you said Tividale so I understand the pain you had.
Stop it. It is my bad and I am not sharing.We haven't won a trophy since we changed the badge. FACE THE FACTS SHEEPLE!!We been struggling since I moved my ST seats to upper Witton End from Holy Trinity at the start of season 10/11. So please forgive Lerner it's all my fault.
In reality the badge is meh, but I haven't liked any since the round one.
Are sure? It's usually Legion that breaks things.
We were doing really well when I was in the Upper Holte. When I moved to the cheap seats in Witton Lane things started to go a bit pear-shaped. Now I am in the Trinity Road, we are positively f*cked.
Certainly is, remember that feeling very well from school in Tividale.You went to school? OK you said Tividale so I understand the pain you had.
Certainly is, remember that feeling very well from school in Tividale.You went to school? OK you said Tividale so I understand the pain you had.
Well, it was technically a school, or so the warders used to tell me.
Certainly is, remember that feeling very well from school in Tividale.You went to school? OK you said Tividale so I understand the pain you had.
Well, it was technically a school, or so the warders used to tell me.
Tividale comp?
The only things I know about Tividale comp are second hand from 3 of the blokes I played American football with. Several tales of daring do that bordered on the implausible. On thing I can say with certainty is that the word yampy was created for them.Certainly is, remember that feeling very well from school in Tividale.You went to school? OK you said Tividale so I understand the pain you had.
Well, it was technically a school, or so the warders used to tell me.
Tividale comp?
I'm afraid so.
I feel sorry for Mr.Lerner. If we can just get him to admit total culpability then we can start the process of reparation and this sorry mess can be put to bed.
The only things I know about Tividale comp are second hand from 3 of the blokes I played American football with. Several tales of daring do that bordered on the implausible. On thing I can say with certainty is that the word yampy was created for them.Certainly is, remember that feeling very well from school in Tividale.You went to school? OK you said Tividale so I understand the pain you had.
Well, it was technically a school, or so the warders used to tell me.
Tividale comp?
I'm afraid so.
Oh and for some reason everyone breathed a sigh of relief when we found out the teacher's industrial action that effectively stopped all inter school sports in the early 80's meant that we didn't have to play you at football in the year we were supposed to.
I feel sorry for Mr.Lerner. If we can just get him to admit total culpability then we can start the process of reparation and this sorry mess can be put to bed.
WHAT?!
The current badge is utter drivel. It should have served as a stark warning to us all when we were told that fucking idiot designed it.
So many things wrong with it but the worst is that fucking star.
That "fucking idiot" could do no wrong at the time and anyone saying a bad word about the star was shouted down.
What's wrong with the star I like it.
What's wrong with the star I like it.
If it's going to be included it should look something like this:
(http://www.concretamentesassuolo.it/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Logo-Inter2.jpg)
Or this:
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/31/article-2517604-1CB847E800000578-407_306x423.jpg)
Or this:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uaXLQpdqMHQ/Vaj5aJt71SI/AAAAAAAAm3k/MzK9URRl0d4/s1600/Nottingham-Forest-15-16-Home-Kit%2B%25281%2529.jpg)
Not awkwardly placed to one side inside the shield itself. Once it wasn't possible to have it placed as above then the club should have dropped it.
But the idea of sticking the star on just seems very small time to me, especially 25 years after the actual success. I want us to be looking to the future not dwelling on the past and that's how it comes across to me.
There really is some dross and vile stuff written / said about Lerner that is tasteless.
The man is a businessman who knows nothing about football (or American Football for that matter) and who was advised very badly. He didn't set out to achieve this result - he got it because he is genuinely way out of his depth.
That's really all there is to it. He deserves criticism and needs to offload and fast, but the image of the club is the only loser when people resort to vile insults and the like.
There really is some dross and vile stuff written / said about Lerner that is tasteless.
The man is a businessman who knows nothing about football (or American Football for that matter) and who was advised very badly. He didn't set out to achieve this result - he got it because he is genuinely way out of his depth.
That's really all there is to it. He deserves criticism and needs to offload and fast, but the image of the club is the only loser when people resort to vile insults and the like.
Are you his neighbor or something?
What in the hell is going on with all of these apologists. The man is an absolute clown. He can't even sort out one fucking weekend to stop by and support the lads. He is nothing short of a coward and a disgrace. He hides behind a revolving door of "qualified" executives and feels a short statement every 5 or 6 months fulfills his custodial duties.
I do not care in the slightest as to how much money he has pumped into the club. He chose this investment. He went out and bought a big club. It wasn't handed to him like the Browns. His ignorance is not an excuse. I don't care about his divorce or Bank of America shares. He has let us down immensely and doesn't have the gumption to show his face unless we're playing at Wembley.
I'm sick to death of the man. I'm sick of talking about him. I'm sick of our club spiraling out of control. He deserves all the abuses he gets.
Just get the hell out of my life.
He's a spineless shit hiding thousands of miles away. Whilst I don't wish him ill I want him to sell to someone who cares, it's been apparent for half a decade he doesn't give a fuck. If he loses money that's not my concern, perhaps he should have been more careful with his investment, caveat emptor and all that. Mistreating the club through neglect because you're bored and can no longer be bothered is wholly unacceptable and he is fully deserving of all the brickbats heading his way. Fuck you Lerner.There really is some dross and vile stuff written / said about Lerner that is tasteless.
The man is a businessman who knows nothing about football (or American Football for that matter) and who was advised very badly. He didn't set out to achieve this result - he got it because he is genuinely way out of his depth.
That's really all there is to it. He deserves criticism and needs to offload and fast, but the image of the club is the only loser when people resort to vile insults and the like.
Are you his neighbor or something?
What in the hell is going on with all of these apologists. The man is an absolute clown. He can't even sort out one fucking weekend to stop by and support the lads. He is nothing short of a coward and a disgrace. He hides behind a revolving door of "qualified" executives and feels a short statement every 5 or 6 months fulfills his custodial duties.
I do not care in the slightest as to how much money he has pumped into the club. He chose this investment. He went out and bought a big club. It wasn't handed to him like the Browns. His ignorance is not an excuse. I don't care about his divorce or Bank of America shares. He has let us down immensely and doesn't have the gumption to show his face unless we're playing at Wembley.
I'm sick to death of the man. I'm sick of talking about him. I'm sick of our club spiraling out of control. He deserves all the abuses he gets.
Just get the hell out of my life.
Who has? I've seen and heard lot of comments to the effect he's an idiot, but wishing him dead, no. It's not like he'll hear hiding behind his sofa across the Atlantic is it?
Who has? I've seen and heard lot of comments to the effect he's an idiot, but wishing him dead, no. It's not like he'll hear hiding behind his sofa across the Atlantic is it?
There were some pretty vile chants about 'having a party when he dies' at West Ham on tuesday and someone earlier on here did wish him i'll. Unfortunately, there are people like that in our society.
Yep, in *all* walks of society.Who has? I've seen and heard lot of comments to the effect he's an idiot, but wishing him dead, no. It's not like he'll hear hiding behind his sofa across the Atlantic is it?
There were some pretty vile chants about 'having a party when he dies' at West Ham on tuesday and someone earlier on here did wish him i'll. Unfortunately, there are people like that in our society.
Who has? I've seen and heard lot of comments to the effect he's an idiot, but wishing him dead, no. It's not like he'll hear hiding behind his sofa across the Atlantic is it?
There were some pretty vile chants about 'having a party when he dies' at West Ham on tuesday and someone earlier on here did wish him i'll. Unfortunately, there are people like that in our society.
It's football - things get blown out of proportion and saft things sung
It's not real life - nobody is actually going to kill him!
The chants at West ham were tasteless, no doubt fueled by alcohol and frustration. I just want him gone and if he makes a loss in the process so be it. You reap what you sow.Yep, in *all* walks of society.Who has? I've seen and heard lot of comments to the effect he's an idiot, but wishing him dead, no. It's not like he'll hear hiding behind his sofa across the Atlantic is it?
There were some pretty vile chants about 'having a party when he dies' at West Ham on tuesday and someone earlier on here did wish him i'll. Unfortunately, there are people like that in our society.
It was on the website of one of the tabloids. A thirty second video on Youtube doesn't mean that sort of thing is the norm for Villa supporters, any more than the video of the guy swearing at the players getting back on to the team bus after Wycombe away is the norm for Villa supporters.
I suspect most just want Lerner to go, sell up. And while the argument about he wants the same (so we're led to believe) is valid, I see nothing wrong with encouraging him to go the extra mile to achieve that sale. As much as I dislike chanting about having parties when someone dies.
Who has? I've seen and heard lot of comments to the effect he's an idiot, but wishing him dead, no. It's not like he'll hear hiding behind his sofa across the Atlantic is it?
There were some pretty vile chants about 'having a party when he dies' at West Ham on tuesday and someone earlier on here did wish him i'll. Unfortunately, there are people like that in our society.
It's football - things get blown out of proportion and saft things sung
It's not real life - nobody is actually going to kill him!
Who has? I've seen and heard lot of comments to the effect he's an idiot, but wishing him dead, no. It's not like he'll hear hiding behind his sofa across the Atlantic is it?
There were some pretty vile chants about 'having a party when he dies' at West Ham on tuesday and someone earlier on here did wish him i'll. Unfortunately, there are people like that in our society.
It's football - things get blown out of proportion and saft things sung
It's not real life - nobody is actually going to kill him!
It's not about actively threatening murder, which would obviously be disgusting, it's about saying you'd celebrate someone dying which is also pretty appalling.
There really is some dross and vile stuff written / said about Lerner that is tasteless.
The man is a businessman who knows nothing about football (or American Football for that matter) and who was advised very badly. He didn't set out to achieve this result - he got it because he is genuinely way out of his depth.
That's really all there is to it. He deserves criticism and needs to offload and fast, but the image of the club is the only loser when people resort to vile insults and the like.
Are you his neighbor or something?
What in the hell is going on with all of these apologists. The man is an absolute clown. He can't even sort out one fucking weekend to stop by and support the lads. He is nothing short of a coward and a disgrace. He hides behind a revolving door of "qualified" executives and feels a short statement every 5 or 6 months fulfills his custodial duties.
I do not care in the slightest as to how much money he has pumped into the club. He chose this investment. He went out and bought a big club. It wasn't handed to him like the Browns. His ignorance is not an excuse. I don't care about his divorce or Bank of America shares. He has let us down immensely and doesn't have the gumption to show his face unless we're playing at Wembley.
I'm sick to death of the man. I'm sick of talking about him. I'm sick of our club spiraling out of control. He deserves all the abuses he gets.
Just get the hell out of my life.
I dunno... I've never really taken football chants literally. Just some sweary nonsense to generate atmosphere and express a general emotion of unhappiness or happiness amongst the throng.
You've all spent years singing about your dad telling you to be a city fan which is a sickening thing to say about your own Dad. Why is no-one up in arms about that? Double standards.
And Jason Lee never really had a pineapple on his head.
Not condoning, but if you think that's bad you should go to an Old Firm game :o
Not condoning, but if you think that's bad you should go to an Old Firm game :o
Funny, cos I once walked a mile and a bit to rub Trevor Francis' face in some shit.I dunno... I've never really taken football chants literally. Just some sweary nonsense to generate atmosphere and express a general emotion of unhappiness or happiness amongst the throng.
You've all spent years singing about your dad telling you to be a city fan which is a sickening thing to say about your own Dad. Why is no-one up in arms about that? Double standards.
And Jason Lee never really had a pineapple on his head.
I did once do a shit on the City though.
Funny, cos I once walked a mile and a bit to rub Trevor Francis' face in some shit.I dunno... I've never really taken football chants literally. Just some sweary nonsense to generate atmosphere and express a general emotion of unhappiness or happiness amongst the throng.
You've all spent years singing about your dad telling you to be a city fan which is a sickening thing to say about your own Dad. Why is no-one up in arms about that? Double standards.
And Jason Lee never really had a pineapple on his head.
I did once do a shit on the City though.
Which should be applauded, well done Sir.Funny, cos I once walked a mile and a bit to rub Trevor Francis' face in some shit.I dunno... I've never really taken football chants literally. Just some sweary nonsense to generate atmosphere and express a general emotion of unhappiness or happiness amongst the throng.
You've all spent years singing about your dad telling you to be a city fan which is a sickening thing to say about your own Dad. Why is no-one up in arms about that? Double standards.
And Jason Lee never really had a pineapple on his head.
I did once do a shit on the City though.
Funny, cos I once walked a mile and a bit to rub Trevor Francis' face in some shit.I dunno... I've never really taken football chants literally. Just some sweary nonsense to generate atmosphere and express a general emotion of unhappiness or happiness amongst the throng.
You've all spent years singing about your dad telling you to be a city fan which is a sickening thing to say about your own Dad. Why is no-one up in arms about that? Double standards.
And Jason Lee never really had a pineapple on his head.
I did once do a shit on the City though.
That's nowt, I once helped Terry Hurlock to find his caravan
This is how it's done. Randy take heed you clueless dolt
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/206821-fsg-s-message-to-liverpool-supporters
We quite obviously got the wrong American/Americans...
This is how it's done. Randy take heed you clueless dolt
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/206821-fsg-s-message-to-liverpool-supporters
We quite obviously got the wrong American/Americans...
For all he's got wrong in the past five years he would never try to pull a stroke like that so he'd never have to put it right.
This is how it's done. Randy take heed you clueless dolt
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/206821-fsg-s-message-to-liverpool-supporters
We quite obviously got the wrong American/Americans...
For all he's got wrong in the past five years he would never try to pull a stroke like that so he'd never have to put it right.
I can list what his got right pretty much on the fingers of one hand. FSG seem to have a far better handle on custodianship than Randy, they continue to invest whilst not distancing themselves/hiding on the other side of the Atlantic, whilst serving up the same gently reheated shit sandwich every season for half a decade. They seem to have a genuine respect for the institution in their care. Randy effects an air of not giving a fuck, our being bored at best. Weren't Hicks and Gillette interested in villa? Carson Yeung would have been a better bet than dear old Randy. Lerner is a vandal destroying villa through sheer incompetence...
This is how it's done. Randy take heed you clueless dolt
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/206821-fsg-s-message-to-liverpool-supporters
We quite obviously got the wrong American/Americans...
For all he's got wrong in the past five years he would never try to pull a stroke like that so he'd never have to put it right.
I can list what his got right pretty much on the fingers of one hand. FSG seem to have a far better handle on custodianship than Randy, they continue to invest whilst not distancing themselves/hiding on the other side of the Atlantic, whilst serving up the same gently reheated shit sandwich every season for half a decade. They seem to have a genuine respect for the institution in their care. Randy effects an air of not giving a fuck, our being bored at best. Weren't Hicks and Gillette interested in villa? Carson Yeung would have been a better bet than dear old Randy. Lerner is a vandal destroying villa through sheer incompetence...
Carson Yeung would have been better than Randy? We're you sligtly tipsy when you wrote that?
This is how it's done. Randy take heed you clueless dolt
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/206821-fsg-s-message-to-liverpool-supporters
We quite obviously got the wrong American/Americans...
For all he's got wrong in the past five years he would never try to pull a stroke like that so he'd never have to put it right.
I can list what his got right pretty much on the fingers of one hand. FSG seem to have a far better handle on custodianship than Randy, they continue to invest whilst not distancing themselves/hiding on the other side of the Atlantic, whilst serving up the same gently reheated shit sandwich every season for half a decade. They seem to have a genuine respect for the institution in their care. Randy effects an air of not giving a fuck, our being bored at best. Weren't Hicks and Gillette interested in villa? Carson Yeung would have been a better bet than dear old Randy. Lerner is a vandal destroying villa through sheer incompetence...
Carson Yeung would have been better than Randy? We're you sligtly tipsy when you wrote that?
Or struggling in a very tight, white jacket
If we go down, the Muppets running the show will employ austerity max, we've only had austerity lite to now. The idiots will employ more of the same thinking that got us into this mess in the first place, to try and fix it. So we're looking at possibly substantial debt and a long spell in the championship, Carson in his defence (never thought I'd utter that), achieved that and won a trophy with them. He's one up on the idiot all ready...
If we go down, the Muppets running the show will employ austerity max, we've only had austerity lite to now. The idiots will employ more of the same thinking that got us into this mess in the first place, to try and fix it. So we're looking at possibly substantial debt and a long spell in the championship, Carson in his defence (never thought I'd utter that), achieved that and won a trophy with them. He's one up on the idiot all ready...
So we employ austerity max and still end up substantially in debt, are you saying we should spend shed loads of cash and end up in even more debt? And as bad as Lerner ever has been to compare him to Yeung is ridiculous.
The answer to getting back up is to have a good manager, a strong core of the team and squad depth. Let's see how and what signings are made in the summer before whining about things before they happen.
Wimps the lot of you. You have never experienced pain unless you have trodden barefoot on a three pin plug lying on its back, prongs upwards.
If we go down, the Muppets running the show will employ austerity max, we've only had austerity lite to now. The idiots will employ more of the same thinking that got us into this mess in the first place, to try and fix it. So we're looking at possibly substantial debt and a long spell in the championship, Carson in his defence (never thought I'd utter that), achieved that and won a trophy with them. He's one up on the idiot all ready...
So we employ austerity max and still end up substantially in debt, are you saying we should spend shed loads of cash and end up in even more debt? And as bad as Lerner ever has been to compare him to Yeung is ridiculous.
The answer to getting back up is to have a good manager, a strong core of the team and squad depth. Let's see how and what signings are made in the summer before whining about things before they happen.
Aren't we a £100m in the hole to RAL already?
As for comparing Lerner to Yeung, that was tongue in cheek, perhaps I should have used a smilie. Lerner though has done as disastrous a job as the hairdresser. Unless we miraculously escape the drop this season we won't bounce straight back. I've no faith in anyone at the club other than Garde to arrest the slide
The fact that Liverpool are owned by a bunch of lunatics doesn't make Lerner any less of a dick. To be honest, I'd rather be8th or 9th in the table, have a couple of hundred million quid's worth of players and only have to moan about my ticket price ( scandalous as that may be).
Has Yeung been worse for them than Lerner has for us?
This is how it's done. Randy take heed you clueless dolt
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/206821-fsg-s-message-to-liverpool-supporters
We quite obviously got the wrong American/Americans...
Has anyone seen this:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/6923524/Aston-Villa-woes-How-Randy-Lerners-reign-has-ruined-great-club.html
Seems to be a good history of the Lerner years to date. Certainly better than certain articles that say, to paraphrase, its Garde and all them Johnny foreigners who need to be kick out of the club.
Has anyone seen this:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/6923524/Aston-Villa-woes-How-Randy-Lerners-reign-has-ruined-great-club.html
Seems to be a good history of the Lerner years to date. Certainly better than certain articles that say, to paraphrase, its Garde and all them Johnny foreigners who need to be kick out of the club.
I don't like the sound of this:
"Yet there was no buyer at the £200m asking price — or even at lower valuations Lerner was forced to concede. Various consortia began due diligence, only to decide not to proceed. The precise nature of what they saw in the books remains unclear."
I wonder if they will put that on his epitaph
Randy Lerner
Not quite as bad as Yeung Oyston or Venkys.
Factory of Sadness Magnate gets it for me.I wonder if they will put that on his epitaph
Randy Lerner
Not quite as bad as Yeung Oyston or Venkys.
It's that or factory of sadness magnate...
I thought the Scum was behind a pay wall?So did I but I saw the link on Facebook and low and behold, a well written account of what has happened.
Has anyone seen this:I've read the article and its worrying if there is any truth that potential buyers looked over the books and took flight. It's all unsubstantiated, but there were enough rumours of talks teaching an advanced stage last summer and breaking down, which may lend some credence in this. Oh Lord, I suspect we haven't seen the start of how this will all unravel...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/6923524/Aston-Villa-woes-How-Randy-Lerners-reign-has-ruined-great-club.html
Seems to be a good history of the Lerner years to date. Certainly better than certain articles that say, to paraphrase, its Garde and all them Johnny foreigners who need to be kick out of the club.
Has anyone seen this:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/6923524/Aston-Villa-woes-How-Randy-Lerners-reign-has-ruined-great-club.html
Seems to be a good history of the Lerner years to date. Certainly better than certain articles that say, to paraphrase, its Garde and all them Johnny foreigners who need to be kick out of the club.
I don't like the sound of this:
"Yet there was no buyer at the £200m asking price — or even at lower valuations Lerner was forced to concede. Various consortia began due diligence, only to decide not to proceed. The precise nature of what they saw in the books remains unclear."
It's the Sun.
It may be true. But there needs to be a pinch of salt. It's not inconceivable that this stuff gets fed out by potential buyers to undermine the perceived value of the club.Has anyone seen this:I've read the article and its worrying if there is any truth that potential buyers looked over the books and took flight. It's all unsubstantiated, but there were enough rumours of talks teaching an advanced stage last summer and breaking down, that there may be some credence in this. Oh Lord, I suspect we haven't seen the start of how this will all unravel...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/6923524/Aston-Villa-woes-How-Randy-Lerners-reign-has-ruined-great-club.html
Seems to be a good history of the Lerner years to date. Certainly better than certain articles that say, to paraphrase, its Garde and all them Johnny foreigners who need to be kick out of the club.
I thought the Scum was behind a pay wall?
It may be true. But there needs to be a pinch of salt. It's not inconceivable that this stuff gets fed out by potential buyers to undermine the perceived value of the club.Has anyone seen this:I've read the article and its worrying if there is any truth that potential buyers looked over the books and took flight. It's all unsubstantiated, but there were enough rumours of talks teaching an advanced stage last summer and breaking down, that there may be some credence in this. Oh Lord, I suspect we haven't seen the start of how this will all unravel...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/6923524/Aston-Villa-woes-How-Randy-Lerners-reign-has-ruined-great-club.html
Seems to be a good history of the Lerner years to date. Certainly better than certain articles that say, to paraphrase, its Garde and all them Johnny foreigners who need to be kick out of the club.
This is how it's done. Randy take heed you clueless dolt
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/206821-fsg-s-message-to-liverpool-supporters
We quite obviously got the wrong American/Americans...
For all he's got wrong in the past five years he would never try to pull a stroke like that so he'd never have to put it right.
Not condoning, but if you think that's bad you should go to an Old Firm game :o
And right there is why I wouldn't want to.
This is how it's done. Randy take heed you clueless dolt
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/206821-fsg-s-message-to-liverpool-supporters
We quite obviously got the wrong American/Americans...
For all he's got wrong in the past five years he would never try to pull a stroke like that so he'd never have to put it right.
Totally agree Dave. For all the faults of the board Villa have never tried to rip the fans off with overpriced tickets.
This is how it's done. Randy take heed you clueless dolt
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/206821-fsg-s-message-to-liverpool-supporters
We quite obviously got the wrong American/Americans...
For all he's got wrong in the past five years he would never try to pull a stroke like that so he'd never have to put it right.
Totally agree Dave. For all the faults of the board Villa have never tried to rip the fans off with overpriced tickets.
At least no more than any other club
This is how it's done. Randy take heed you clueless dolt
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/206821-fsg-s-message-to-liverpool-supporters
We quite obviously got the wrong American/Americans...
For all he's got wrong in the past five years he would never try to pull a stroke like that so he'd never have to put it right.
Totally agree Dave. For all the faults of the board Villa have never tried to rip the fans off with overpriced tickets.
At least no more than any other club
The football has been so bad these last five years that they really couldn't, but didn't they recently try to levy some kind of 'booking fee' upon all tickets bought in person, even with cash?
There aren't many people on planet earth I'd say I truly hate, but Randy Lerner is right up there at number 1.
That's a bit daft isn't it? It's not like Lerner represents the entire nation is it?
That's a bit daft isn't it? It's not like Lerner represents the entire nation is it?
Who bloody cares, people are angry. That sort of whataboutery is the reason why there was no major protest about two years ago before things go really bad.
We are way, way beyond the 'on a point of order' phase.
That's a bit daft isn't it? It's not like Lerner represents the entire nation is it?
There aren't many people on planet earth I'd say I truly hate, but Randy Lerner is right up there at number 1.
Me too. I despise him for ruining the villa and for fooling so many supporters. Remarkable how many people would defend him until so recently. Shocking. He has done untold damage to Aston Villa. We could be staring a decade in the wilderness.
I vote we get Trump, he will build a wall.That's a bit daft isn't it? It's not like Lerner represents the entire nation is it?
This, and we have American fans on here don't we?
I bet Hollis rings in sick tomorrow
[/quote
sadly there is no like button. I wouldn't be surprised though if he did... The bus has gone over the cliff.
(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/aston-villa-director-norman-smith-leaving-the-managers-office-at-in-picture-id499557666)
Aston Villa director Norman Smith leaving the Manager's Office at Villa Park in Birmingham after the Board had sacked team manager Tommy Cummings, 12th November 1968.
(http://i2.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/article8078798.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Sunday-Mercury-coverage-of-the-Aston-Villa-fans-protest-in-November-1968.jpg)
There aren't many people on planet earth I'd say I truly hate, but Randy Lerner is right up there at number 1.
Me too. I despise him for ruining the villa and for fooling so many supporters. Remarkable how many people would defend him until so recently. Shocking. He has done untold damage to Aston Villa. We could be staring a decade in the wilderness.
Where are all these people who defended Lerner until recently?
And I'm assuming that you're not classing things like not wanting to have a party when he dies as 'defending him'?
There aren't many people on planet earth I'd say I truly hate, but Randy Lerner is right up there at number 1.
Me too. I despise him for ruining the villa and for fooling so many supporters. Remarkable how many people would defend him until so recently. Shocking. He has done untold damage to Aston Villa. We could be staring a decade in the wilderness.
Where are all these people who defended Lerner until recently?
And I'm assuming that you're not classing things like not wanting to have a party when he dies as 'defending him'?
You just reminded me of a night a couple of years ago. We lost to some no hoper team mid-way through the season and I posted, the result had put me in a foul mood, that 40 points & survival was the height of Lerner's ambition. I was told I was 'talking bollocks as usual'. We actually haven't reached 4o points in a season since then and I think it was 13-14.
Not having a pop (because I think it may have been you who said I was talking bollocks - that's fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion) but it is an example of how for a very long time people wanted to see the good in Lerner.People wanted to believe in 'young and hungry', 'old and experienced', and last summer we nearly dd crack it but the problem was we sold our two best players before investing the type of money necessary to get us out of the vicious cycle we have been in this half decade.
Lerner has at best turned us into the type of club the likes of Wigan used to be. It hurts and it makes people angry. Lerner has let everybody down but most of all he has let down those fans who have believed in him.
This man is a disgrace to the football club. I wonder if he was awake to see the beating or if he just gets Villa goal alerts?
I think I remember the night in question. Didn't you say that you were actually in tears and then some other people said that you might need to look at your priorities?
Anyone else see this photo...
(https://cg1viq.by3301.livefilestore.com/y3mKJmBGSfntwHZzx1f0aIMtjQSStQLAVfT-YNuCkcMFwPk1a118Rl-z5CtC__tuwSojlV9QPd9sUViK05yapReETsMwA8NR09Qkd9FgHAGKcOoyQr6pCO_xMi9z5fQ6rDHFE2g0GGCT9fZyWteDnvBPUoqHPyMnjXsGWdzMWwA5j0?width=480&height=720&cropmode=none)
I think I remember the night in question. Didn't you say that you were actually in tears and then some other people said that you might need to look at your priorities?
I was probably one of them, and I stick by it. If your hobby makes THAT angry or sad or it gets to the point that it is actually affecting your life or relationships (as many have claimed), then seriously, get a new hobby.
The thing is, football isn't just a hobby is it. Making model aircraft or going train spotting is a hobby. Aston Villa is an historical community institution that runs through generations of families in the area and beyond. As part of a multi-billion pound industry it is also an important part of the local economy, it provides jobs and has a knock on effect across the whole region - pubs, food outlets, catering companies, taxi firms, printers... the list goes on. The fans have invested in it, both financially and emotionally, and its gradual decay affects people in all kinds of ways, which is why Randy Lerner's dereliction of duty is all the more disgraceful.
I'm not going to blub over it, but by Christ it is a horrible thing to stomach.
It's not a hobby though is it? Being a fan of a football club is much more than that and well you know it.
I hate this "get a new hobby if it affects you that much" routine that is thrown around when one fan has a problem with another. It's such a cheap shot as we all know that being a passionate football fan means you can't just switch off when things aren't going so well.
When are you attending your annual match Randy? Brave enough to face the fans? COWARD!
This place would be in meltdown if Randy found his bollocks and turned up.
This place would be in meltdown if Randy found his bollocks and turned up.
He should sit in the Holte End for the Newcastle game.....
It's not a hobby though is it? Being a fan of a football club is much more than that and well you know it.
I hate this "get a new hobby if it affects you that much" routine that is thrown around when one fan has a problem with another. It's such a cheap shot as we all know that being a passionate football fan means you can't just switch off when things aren't going so well.
No I don't know it. If I did I wouldn't have posted it, I don't post just for affect you know.
Look, get as passionate as you like but in the end it's just football, it's a game. Yes we invest a lot in it both financially and emotionally but at the end of the day (match) you have to be able to put it all behind you and get on with your real life.
If it is affecting you like some people claim it does then it's time to step away.
First time poster.
First time poster.
Welcome!
First time poster.
Welcome!
Thanks!
Wish it was in better circumstances mind.....
First time poster.
Welcome!
Thanks!
Wish it was in better circumstances mind.....
Lerner~ ~ TOUGH GUY or WIMP ?
This is a serious question to me.
From MON confessing that he buttered him up with questions about his US team and admitted that Lerner realised he'd done an overnight 'homework' of Wiki-- he eventually walked and won his compo.
Weak Lerner ?
Houlier got out through illness --but eventually went back into football.
Hoodwinked Lerner ?
McLeish--Jesus--- couldn't praise him enough.
Scary Lerner ?
Lambert ---FFS ;D
Actually hinted/alluded that our leader "may" have been in another box, and "actually" attended matches incognito that the media didn't realise. He didn't say he did...just hinted at it.
Round about the time he started calling him "Randy" rather than "Mr Lerner"
Scary Lerner?
Tactics Tim - was in a separate reality. :-\
Reverted between Randy and Mr Lerner -- one time I heard him refer to him as the "OWNER"
WOW!... he was gone anyway.
But was Lerner Scary to him?
Brian Clough stood up to owners, produced European Champions.
Went a whole season with 13 players and won the League.
Called out Owners and Bullies and stood his ground.
Every manager we have had under Lerner has appeared a brown-nosing
redundancy whore.
Except possibly MON and now Remi.
Is Lerner a WIMP?
Is Lerner a SCARY DON ?
We know he's cr@p at business, marriage and sports--- so I'm tending toward..
WIMP (but the brown-nosing does worry me)
:-\
First time poster. Have been a regular visitor for a while, but never really had the inclination to post. However, yesterday's fiasco has persuaded me get a few things off my chest.
Ten years ago, this club was on a sticky wicket. We had an unpopular chairman whose penny-pinching was bringing the club to its knees, and a condescending manager who appeared to revel in winding us up.
I was convinced that 2006/2007 would see us relegated. I'm not old enough to remember the 86/87 season, as my first season was 89/90, but family and friends had told me of the utter dejection that relegation would bring.
Then, the arrival of Mr Lerner offered hope. I remember vividly watching the press conference to announce Martin O'Neill's arrival and feeling that after years of under achievement, things were finally looking up. We had a manager who appeared to get us. Whose enthusiasm to bring success matched our own. It seemed this grand old club was finally ready to stir from its slumber.
The first four years were great. We were able to throw punches against the big boys for the first time probably since Brian Little's era. We felt that we could take on anybody, and there is no better feeling as a fan than that. Off course we all know now that it was built on sand, but we were frequently assured that the powers that be knew what they were doing.
When O'Neill left, it was the first time I felt anxious about our future. Now it would be Lerner who have appoint a manager for the first time.
I never felt Gerard Houllier was the right man. His history of health issues and the length of time since his Liverpool days made me feel he was yesterday’s man. But there were glimpses of promise in amongst the mayhem of that season. When he left us, I hoped we could get someone who could build on that.
Then came McLeish. No doubt a decent enough man who clearly respected the history and stature of the club, but it was never going to work. Not so much for the Blues connection, but his record there of two relegations in three years. It was then I found myself drifting away from Villa and starting not to recognize us as a club.
Lambert offered me hope that maybe we could turn it round. I defended him for the first season - despite the tale of woe it brought. That run to the end of the season filled me with optimism. We played some good football and looked to have secured some very talented young players who had a brilliant team spirit.
Sadly it failed to last, and when we lost to Palace on Boxing Day 2013, I ran out of patience with Lambert. I expected him to be gone at the end of the season, yet was dismayed that he was still here the following season. By the time he finally went, I had been worn down by his defeatist tactics and demeanor.
Now I never wanted Tim Sherwood in the first place. I disliked his brash style at Tottenham, but in the position we were in, it was hard to see any other credible appointment we could make.
Even though we finished strongly last season, the thumping at Southampton was a warning, followed by that shameful showing in the cup final. As the season descended into another struggle, Sherwood pointed the finger at everyone but himself. His ludicrous comments after the Blues game proving that he thought he could pull the wool over people’s eyes. I quite frankly shed no tears when he left the club.
Now here we are with Remi Garde. A decent and honest man whose integrity in the face of the crap surrounding him has impressed me, even if his results have been less than what we had hoped. Sadly, I don't think any manager on the planet has a chance of doing anything while this current regime continue to hold the power. They don't "get" the club. They don't feel the hurt we do after every moral-sapping defeat. They've achieved something even Doug Ellis and David O'Leary never managed - they've broken Aston Villa and left it with no heart, no spirit and no pride.
Ten years on. We have an unpopular owner whose penny-pinching has now brought the club to its knees. We've gone full circle in the last decade. What an absolute waste.
Still want this thread's title to add the words "OUT" or "WHAT A WANKER"
He's systematically asset stripped the playing staff, the beating heart of any club over the course of the last five yearsAsset stripped? The money hasn't gone into Lerner's coffers- it has been squandered.
Asset stripped? The money hasn't gone into Lerner's coffers- it has been squandered.Are you sure its all been squandered? CNZ's wages per season probably amount to about £3.5m a season. The current TV deal is worth around £60M to the bottom club, the net spend on transfers in recent years seems to be around £10m per season. Then there's all the merchandising that the board seem so proud of - that must be bringing in a pretty penny. Season tickets as well probably bring in £10m a season (20k x £500).
Where has it all gone?In mitigating annual losses which peaked at £52m, and in the last financial year fell to £3.9m.
Asset stripped? The money hasn't gone into Lerner's coffers- it has been squandered.Are you sure its all been squandered? CNZ's wages per season probably amount to about £3.5m a season. The current TV deal is worth around £60M to the bottom club, the net spend on transfers in recent years seems to be around £10m per season. Then there's all the merchandising that the board seem so proud of - that must be bringing in a pretty penny. Season tickets as well probably bring in £10m a season (20k x £500).
Where has it all gone?
The squad has been stripped of any players of value/quality. I'm not saying Lerner has personally pocketed the cash, but the money has gone somewhere, haven't we used player sales to offset losses? Cosmetic surgery for the accounts?
We are where we are due to lack of investment,a failure to pay the going rate on wages and transfers. Player sales have been used as a sticking plaster for our financial woes. Treating what the idiot has sown.
The squad has been stripped of any players of value/quality. I'm not saying Lerner has personally pocketed the cash, but the money has gone somewhere, haven't we used player sales to offset losses? Cosmetic surgery for the accounts?
We are where we are due to lack of investment,a failure to pay the going rate on wages and transfers. Player sales have been used as a sticking plaster for our financial woes. Treating what the idiot has sown.
We would all agree that the calibre of the squad has been diminished as outgoing players have not been replaced with similar or better players.
Player sales and offloading high earners have been used to reduce losses. That isn’t cosmetic surgery, that is basic housekeeping.
The problem has not been a failure to pay high wages, it has been a failure to get value out of what we have spent. That is down to Lerner, the CEO, and the football management team.
The squad has been stripped of any players of value/quality. I'm not saying Lerner has personally pocketed the cash, but the money has gone somewhere, haven't we used player sales to offset losses? Cosmetic surgery for the accounts?
We are where we are due to lack of investment,a failure to pay the going rate on wages and transfers. Player sales have been used as a sticking plaster for our financial woes. Treating what the idiot has sown.
We would all agree that the calibre of the squad has been diminished as outgoing players have not been replaced with similar or better players.
Player sales and offloading high earners have been used to reduce losses. That isn’t cosmetic surgery, that is basic housekeeping.
The problem has not been a failure to pay high wages, it has been a failure to get value out of what we have spent. That is down to Lerner, the CEO, and the football management team.
Exactly.
The other constant refrain has also been "we don't pay Premier League wages." Well look at where we've been in the wages tables in relation to teams like Southampton and Stoke over the last 4-5 years and say it again with a straight face.
We've been appallingly managed from the day Lerner walked through through the door, handed the keys to the safe to O'Neill and simultaneously made him a de facto one man board.
It took 4 years for Lerner, presumably nudged by Faulkner to realise he'd been stitched up like a kipper and a further 4 years of floundering to realise what was going on. I retain a sneaky suspicion that Lerner fell once more for the managers side when it came to a CEO v Manager decision having previously backed MON over Fitzgerald, backed Lambert over Faulkner.
Having lost someone with 4 years hard won experience in Faulkner, he went for Fox, who actually appears to have an idea of how the club should be structured but has made a right pigs ear of implementing it.
(I'll hold my hands up and say I thought the early part of Fox's tenure was promising in terms of him identifying where the club was lacking to actually support a manager and survive a change of manager. The principle is still right, the execution has proven not to be.)
The idea of him being totally removed from the running of the club is definitely the correct one, his involvement has been disastrous. I remains to be seen if Hollis as his chairman can actually do anything to improve our lot. Such is the nature of that role, it will probably be 12-18 months before you can say if he's been a success.
It's rank amateurism and I can look in only one direction. There has been no forethought applied to the running of the club at any point in a decade. From the initial reckless spending, to the knee-jerk cut backs to balance the books, it's all short termism.. We now find ourselves in a position where a change of ownership and a substantial injection of capital is required, the alternative is potentially years in the wilderness.The squad has been stripped of any players of value/quality. I'm not saying Lerner has personally pocketed the cash, but the money has gone somewhere, haven't we used player sales to offset losses? Cosmetic surgery for the accounts?
We are where we are due to lack of investment,a failure to pay the going rate on wages and transfers. Player sales have been used as a sticking plaster for our financial woes. Treating what the idiot has sown.
We would all agree that the calibre of the squad has been diminished as outgoing players have not been replaced with similar or better players.
Player sales and offloading high earners have been used to reduce losses. That isn’t cosmetic surgery, that is basic housekeeping.
The problem has not been a failure to pay high wages, it has been a failure to get value out of what we have spent. That is down to Lerner, the CEO, and the football management team.
Exactly.
The other constant refrain has also been "we don't pay Premier League wages." Well look at where we've been in the wages tables in relation to teams like Southampton and Stoke over the last 4-5 years and say it again with a straight face.
We've been appallingly managed from the day Lerner walked through through the door, handed the keys to the safe to O'Neill and simultaneously made him a de facto one man board.
It took 4 years for Lerner, presumably nudged by Faulkner to realise he'd been stitched up like a kipper and a further 4 years of floundering to realise what was going on. I retain a sneaky suspicion that Lerner fell once more for the managers side when it came to a CEO v Manager decision having previously backed MON over Fitzgerald, backed Lambert over Faulkner.
Having lost someone with 4 years hard won experience in Faulkner, he went for Fox, who actually appears to have an idea of how the club should be structured but has made a right pigs ear of implementing it.
(I'll hold my hands up and say I thought the early part of Fox's tenure was promising in terms of him identifying where the club was lacking to actually support a manager and survive a change of manager. The principle is still right, the execution has proven not to be.)
The idea of him being totally removed from the running of the club is definitely the correct one, his involvement has been disastrous. I remains to be seen if Hollis as his chairman can actually do anything to improve our lot. Such is the nature of that role, it will probably be 12-18 months before you can say if he's been , they're has been no further a success.
It's a shame that can't be burned into the brains, if they have them, of the media and punditocracy in this country. A clearer short summation of our plight isn't to be found, you are scholar and a gent ViD.
Lerner~ ~ TOUGH GUY or WIMP ?
This is a serious question to me.
From MON confessing that he buttered him up with questions about his US team and admitted that Lerner realised he'd done an overnight 'homework' of Wiki-- he eventually walked and won his compo.
Weak Lerner ?
Houlier got out through illness --but eventually went back into football.
Hoodwinked Lerner ?
McLeish--Jesus--- couldn't praise him enough.
Scary Lerner ?
Lambert ---FFS ;D
Actually hinted/alluded that our leader "may" have been in another box, and "actually" attended matches incognito that the media didn't realise. He didn't say he did...just hinted at it.
Round about the time he started calling him "Randy" rather than "Mr Lerner"
Scary Lerner?
Tactics Tim - was in a separate reality. :-\
Reverted between Randy and Mr Lerner -- one time I heard him refer to him as the "OWNER"
WOW!... he was gone anyway.
But was Lerner Scary to him?
Brian Clough stood up to owners, produced European Champions.
Went a whole season with 13 players and won the League.
Called out Owners and Bullies and stood his ground.
Every manager we have had under Lerner has appeared a brown-nosing
redundancy whore.
Except possibly MON and now Remi.
Is Lerner a WIMP?
Is Lerner a SCARY DON ?
We know he's cr@p at business, marriage and sports--- so I'm tending toward..
WIMP (but the brown-nosing does worry me)
:-\
Lerner~ ~ TOUGH GUY or WIMP ?
This is a serious question to me.
From MON confessing that he buttered him up with questions about his US team and admitted that Lerner realised he'd done an overnight 'homework' of Wiki-- he eventually walked and won his compo.
Weak Lerner ?
Houlier got out through illness --but eventually went back into football.
Hoodwinked Lerner ?
McLeish--Jesus--- couldn't praise him enough.
Scary Lerner ?
Lambert ---FFS ;D
Actually hinted/alluded that our leader "may" have been in another box, and "actually" attended matches incognito that the media didn't realise. He didn't say he did...just hinted at it.
Round about the time he started calling him "Randy" rather than "Mr Lerner"
Scary Lerner?
Tactics Tim - was in a separate reality. :-\
Reverted between Randy and Mr Lerner -- one time I heard him refer to him as the "OWNER"
WOW!... he was gone anyway.
But was Lerner Scary to him?
Brian Clough stood up to owners, produced European Champions.
Went a whole season with 13 players and won the League.
Called out Owners and Bullies and stood his ground.
Every manager we have had under Lerner has appeared a brown-nosing
redundancy whore.
Except possibly MON and now Remi.
Is Lerner a WIMP?
Is Lerner a SCARY DON ?
We know he's cr@p at business, marriage and sports--- so I'm tending toward..
WIMP (but the brown-nosing does worry me)
:-\
Mate no disrespect but what the fuck are you on?
Lerner~ ~ TOUGH GUY or WIMP ?
This is a serious question to me.
From MON confessing that he buttered him up with questions about his US team and admitted that Lerner realised he'd done an overnight 'homework' of Wiki-- he eventually walked and won his compo.
Weak Lerner ?
Houlier got out through illness --but eventually went back into football.
Hoodwinked Lerner ?
McLeish--Jesus--- couldn't praise him enough.
Scary Lerner ?
Lambert ---FFS ;D
Actually hinted/alluded that our leader "may" have been in another box, and "actually" attended matches incognito that the media didn't realise. He didn't say he did...just hinted at it.
Round about the time he started calling him "Randy" rather than "Mr Lerner"
Scary Lerner?
Tactics Tim - was in a separate reality. :-\
Reverted between Randy and Mr Lerner -- one time I heard him refer to him as the "OWNER"
WOW!... he was gone anyway.
But was Lerner Scary to him?
Brian Clough stood up to owners, produced European Champions.
Went a whole season with 13 players and won the League.
Called out Owners and Bullies and stood his ground.
Every manager we have had under Lerner has appeared a brown-nosing
redundancy whore.
Except possibly MON and now Remi.
Is Lerner a WIMP?
Is Lerner a SCARY DON ?
We know he's cr@p at business, marriage and sports--- so I'm tending toward..
WIMP (but the brown-nosing does worry me)
:-\
Mate no disrespect but what the fuck are you on?
I agree-Jesus christ, have you absorbed LSD? I read that and got a headache....
I was talking to a Bolton fan last night (now they really are in the shit) and it struck me how close we are to being in deep deep shit just like them. Both clubs owned by very wealthy men, both clubs up for sale, and both owners not willing to spend anymore cash. It was then that the realisation hit me that we could be about to go the way of Bolton. It's the feeling of helplessness that gets to you. No matter how much we want it, Randy just ain't gonna invest anymore cash. No investment equals relegation. Relegation equals less cash in the coffers. It's the perfect shit storm of hopelessness!
I was talking to a Bolton fan last night (now they really are in the ****) and it struck me how close we are to being in deep deep **** just like them. Both clubs owned by very wealthy men, both clubs up for sale, and both owners not willing to spend anymore cash. It was then that the realisation hit me that we could be about to go the way of Bolton. It's the feeling of helplessness that gets to you. No matter how much we want it, Randy just ain't gonna invest anymore cash. No investment equals relegation. Relegation equals less cash in the coffers. It's the perfect **** storm of hopelessness!
The idea of him being totally removed from the running of the club is definitely the correct one, his involvement has been disastrous. I remains to be seen if Hollis as his chairman can actually do anything to improve our lot. Such is the nature of that role, it will probably be 12-18 months before you can say if he's been a success.
The idea of him being totally removed from the running of the club is definitely the correct one, his involvement has been disastrous. I remains to be seen if Hollis as his chairman can actually do anything to improve our lot. Such is the nature of that role, it will probably be 12-18 months before you can say if he's been a success.
So far Hollis has not put a foot right. While it is possible he will become a competent chairman, so far he has not demonstrated it. Sadly I think we are lumbered with him for a while.
I would argue he is a step down from Lerner. At least Lerner could, in a moment of sanity talking with the manager, dig a bit deeper and free up more money for players. Hollis does not have that ability as he does not own the club and is not a billionaire. He just seems to be yet another dreary cost cutter.
How does anyone find out how much the players are earning?
How does anyone find out how much the players are earning?
Ask them on Twitter or Instagram.
Re Hollis, the only thing he can have influenced positively or negatively was the transfer window. I don't think anyone envisaged it being the shitstorm it was, but he definitely should have taken the chance with the extra couple of million on the 2 deals it looked like Garde had set up.
But as I said, just by the natural if the role it will be at least 12 months before we get a proper idea.
I honestly can't believe that there's a person alive that thinks Lerner's hand on the tiller is a better option than anyone other than Mr. Bean.
As chairman Hollis can run the club exactly how he sees fit. If he thinks the right thing is to borrow over and above our incomings he can go to a bank or he can ask Lerner.
His only duty is to deliver maximum value for the shareholder(s). In this case Lerner needs the club as a saleable asset.
A PL club with finances in order.
, I am tired of the losses."
The squad has been stripped of any players of value/quality. I'm not saying Lerner has personally pocketed the cash, but the money has gone somewhere, haven't we used player sales to offset losses? Cosmetic surgery for the accounts?
We are where we are due to lack of investment,a failure to pay the going rate on wages and transfers. Player sales have been used as a sticking plaster for our financial woes. Treating what the idiot has sown.
We would all agree that the calibre of the squad has been diminished as outgoing players have not been replaced with similar or better players.
Player sales and offloading high earners have been used to reduce losses. That isn’t cosmetic surgery, that is basic housekeeping.
The problem has not been a failure to pay high wages, it has been a failure to get value out of what we have spent. That is down to Lerner, the CEO, and the football management team.
Exactly.
The other constant refrain has also been "we don't pay Premier League wages." Well look at where we've been in the wages tables in relation to teams like Southampton and Stoke over the last 4-5 years and say it again with a straight face.
The squad has been stripped of any players of value/quality. I'm not saying Lerner has personally pocketed the cash, but the money has gone somewhere, haven't we used player sales to offset losses? Cosmetic surgery for the accounts?
We are where we are due to lack of investment,a failure to pay the going rate on wages and transfers. Player sales have been used as a sticking plaster for our financial woes. Reaping what the idiot has sown.
We would all agree that the calibre of the squad has been diminished as outgoing players have not been replaced with similar or better players.
Player sales and offloading high earners have been used to reduce losses. That isn’t cosmetic surgery, that is basic housekeeping.
The problem has not been a failure to pay high wages, it has been a failure to get value out of what we have spent. That is down to Lerner, the CEO, and the football management team.
Exactly.
The other constant refrain has also been "we don't pay Premier League wages." Well look at where we've been in the wages tables in relation to teams like Southampton and Stoke over the last 4-5 years and say it again with a straight face.
The problem there is that those figures have been skewed by the exorbitant wages Bent, Given, N'Zogbia and Gabby have been on while not playing, which, had we not had them, could have paid for a couple of Shane Longs or Bojans rather than the Westwoods and Kozaks that we've had to make do with.
I can't believe I just pluralised the names of footballers and still think that it was the right thing to do. Lord have mercy on my terrible soul.
I'd be interesting to see a wages to games played, goals scored, chances created etc comparison. We play Premier League wages to some, but barely any of them contribute.We've consistently paid a level over what we've received.
I'd be interesting to see a wages to games played, goals scored, chances created etc comparison. We play Premier League wages to some, but barely any of them contribute.We've consistently paid a level over what we've received.
MON - paying bit part players and journeymen wages you'd expect their CL counterparts to be receiving for top 6 finishes
Houllier / McLeish - top 6 wages for mid-table / bottom 6 finishes.
Lambert - mid-table wages for bottom 6 finishes.
Sherwood/Garde we're still paying something like 13 or 14th in the wages league to finish dead bottom.
All indicative of God awful purchasing/contracts/coaching.
It really is impressive that over 9 years we've consistently overpaid for what we've achieved and every time we've turned the wages down we've managed to drop a level of performance instead of bringing the performance in line with the wages.
If Lerner really did want to just blow £250M on the Villa, he'd have been better off throwing a couple of hundred thousand to everyone who could prove more than 2 year solid attendance in the previous 40 years. He'd have left with the same hole in the bank account.
My only consolation in all this is that Ray Ranson was apparently 2nd in the queue. For anyone who thinks "anyone could have done a better job than Lerner," look up some of his "achievements" in running and financing football clubs.
We're kissing goodbye to £70m next season because we wouldn't stretch the budget for better players. Madness utter, madness...But we did stretch the budget- we blew £50m in the summer.
We're kissing goodbye to £70m next season because we wouldn't stretch the budget for better players. Madness utter, madness...But we did stretch the budget- we blew £50m in the summer.
I repeat the problem is not that we have not spent- it is that we have not spent wisely, because we do not have the people who know how to spend wisely.
We're kissing goodbye to £70m next season because we wouldn't stretch the budget for better players. Madness utter, madness...But we did stretch the budget- we blew £50m in the summer.
I repeat the problem is not that we have not spent- it is that we have not spent wisely, because we do not have the people who know how to spend wisely.
Another contributory factor is we never maximised earnings potential from commercial deals at the right time. This led to us having wages accounting for something like 70% of income. It wasn't that we were paying over the odds we were probably paying the going rate in wages compared to say a Spurs or Everton, but looking back we didn't have the extra income from commercial streams that other clubs did. Fox and Hollis have both said as much, pointing the finger at Faulkner.
When you think back at some, or lack of deals we were definitely lightweight in that department. Nike making us wait until November for new shirts, the Acorns deal while great PR was not bringing in any money, its crazy to think of a PL club without a shirt sponsor.
Its obvious we have been left behind commercially by a lot of PL clubs, and ironically for Randy just when the money will be rolling in for being in the PL , we will be left behind again.
Lerner out T-Shirts anyone ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ASTON-VILLA-PROUD-HISTORY-NO-FUTURE-LERNER-OUT-PROTEST-T-SHIRT-MEN-WOMEN-
Similar stickers are also available. I've seen the stickers on London tube trains, various vehicles and lamp posts too.
Hurry up Mr Lerner, sell the Club.
Can we just stop talking about him now! Fucking boring! Sick of seeing and hearing of him.Agreed. It's been done to death. Although someone doing the man himself to death is not a disagreeable thought*
Can we just stop talking about him now! Fucking boring! Sick of seeing and hearing of him.
Some of you may be aware of Swiss Ramble, who is about the best commentator on football finance around. Although almost a year old, the enclosed link is as detailed and balanced an assessment of our woes as I have seen:
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Aston%20Villa
Some of you may be aware of Swiss Ramble, who is about the best commentator on football finance around. Although almost a year old, the enclosed link is as detailed and balanced an assessment of our woes as I have seen:
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Aston%20Villa
Some of you may be aware of Swiss Ramble, who is about the best commentator on football finance around. Although almost a year old, the enclosed link is as detailed and balanced an assessment of our woes as I have seen:
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Aston%20Villa
Robin Russell: “By controlling costs we have been able to take advantage of the new Premier League broadcasting deal to bring the club closer to self-sufficiency.”Good luck with that in the Championship. Unless the squad have relegation clauses that reduce their wages by at least 60%.
Good question. Has anybody on this site heard of the Swiss Ramble? Not sure it's ever come up.I've quoted the site before.
Good question. Has anybody on this site heard of the Swiss Ramble? Not sure it's ever come up.I've quoted the site before.
For those not interested in football facts and figures, it's a non starter. But I am, and it provides some useful context to where we are.
In short, Randy has not raided the petty cash, he has put in a shed load of money, he has seen a poor return through bad decision making, and the MON era was probably our last shot at th big time with Spurs and West Ham moving grounds.
Good question. Has anybody on this site heard of the Swiss Ramble? Not sure it's ever come up.I've quoted the site before.
For those not interested in football facts and figures, it's a non starter. But I am, and it provides some useful context to where we are.
In short, Randy has not raided the petty cash, he has put in a shed load of money, he has seen a poor return through bad decision making, and the MON era was probably our last shot at th big time with Spurs and West Ham moving grounds.
Can we just stop talking about him now! Fucking boring! Sick of seeing and hearing of him.
Yes, let's stick our fingers in our ears, hide under the table and pretend he doesn't exist. Works for Randy.
Some of you may be aware of Swiss Ramble, who is about the best commentator on football finance around. Although almost a year old, the enclosed link is as detailed and balanced an assessment of our woes as I have seen:
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Aston%20VillaQuoteRobin Russell: “By controlling costs we have been able to take advantage of the new Premier League broadcasting deal to bring the club closer to self-sufficiency.”Good luck with that in the Championship. Unless the squad have relegation clauses that reduce their wages by at least 60%.
Is he the same as Swiss Tony??Some of you may be aware of Swiss Ramble, who is about the best commentator on football finance around. Although almost a year old, the enclosed link is as detailed and balanced an assessment of our woes as I have seen:
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Aston%20VillaSome of you may be aware of Swiss Ramble, who is about the best commentator on football finance around. Although almost a year old, the enclosed link is as detailed and balanced an assessment of our woes as I have seen:
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Aston%20Villa
Good question. Has anybody on this site heard of the Swiss Ramble?
Some of you may be aware of Swiss Ramble, who is about the best commentator on football finance around. Although almost a year old, the enclosed link is as detailed and balanced an assessment of our woes as I have seen:
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Aston%20VillaSome of you may be aware of Swiss Ramble, who is about the best commentator on football finance around. Although almost a year old, the enclosed link is as detailed and balanced an assessment of our woes as I have seen:
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Aston%20Villa
Good question. Has anybody on this site heard of the Swiss Ramble? Not sure it's ever come up.
Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
That may be the case but it certainly wouldn't surprise me and the board haven't done or said anything recently to convince that this isn't the case. They are given the exact impression that they couldn't care lessBlimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
Hmm. Hardly an in-depth expose from a Board insider. Quite light on actual detail and the Club don't appear to have been given an opportunity to comment.
That may be the case but it certainly wouldn't surprise me and the board haven't done or said anything recently to convince that this isn't the case. They are given the exact impression that they couldn't care lessBlimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
Hmm. Hardly an in-depth expose from a Board insider. Quite light on actual detail and the Club don't appear to have been given an opportunity to comment.
Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192)
Hmm. Hardly an in-depth expose from a Board insider. Quite light on actual detail and the Club don't appear to have been given an opportunity to comment.
"Would Elaine get into the Albion match day staff?"
Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
Hmm. Hardly an in-depth expose from a Board insider. Quite light on actual detail and the Club don't appear to have been given an opportunity to comment.
Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
She's no Paul Lambert that's for sure.
She's no Paul Lambert that's for sure.
Sorry yes, when I said "Statutory Redundancy Payment" I really meant "Extended Four Year Contract."
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-s3BsmtvBIik/UezWM5z2WAI/AAAAAAAAPU0/FgcLmjhydR4/s1600/heads+sand.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-s3BsmtvBIik/UezWM5z2WAI/AAAAAAAAPU0/FgcLmjhydR4/s1600/heads+sand.jpg)
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The squad going through tactical analysis of the opposition?
Some might not like the way that letter has been done, but the sentiment and content in it are real cause for concern. The penny pinching and austerity that is said to be going on at the club makes you wonder just how far the club will go to not spend money.
She doesn't really a say a lot.
It seems to come down to:-
1. The owner lives in America and doesn't visit very much.
2. If you abuse the management of private premises you get asked to leave.
3. The club are having to take measures to make sure expenditure is not going to outstrip income when we get relegated.
4. We aren't very good at the moment (which we all know.)
I'm genuinely very sorry if people are going to lose their jobs because of relegation but the contents of this letter are not on a level with, for example, the revelations of the conditions under which people were being expected to work for Sports Direct.
Any time an organisation restructures there are inevitably members of staff who feel aggrieved, some of who will want to make their voices heard. That is not to say that this lady does not have a genuine grievance, we only have one side of the argument, but I would be wary of making too much of this in isolation.
It is all very well being dismissive of what she says and ridiculing the was she has said it, but the truth is that the essence of what she is saying is no different to what has been said by many on these pages.
Our plight has made it to the The Wall Street Journal, at least they give Randy a dig...
www.wsj.com/articles/the-ignominy-of-aston-villa-1455834198
Our plight has made it to the The Wall Street Journal, at least they give Randy a dig...
www.wsj.com/articles/the-ignominy-of-aston-villa-1455834198
I might steal the two Villa park drawings in that article.
Don't tell anybody.
"Villa fans streamed out of the park, shouting obscenities. One fan threw his hat on the field, then asked for it back."
What's all this 'it's like Beruit now' all about? Did they chain her up all day? Were there bombs going off outside VP?
I suppose if Iwere working for a crap company (which used to have a good reputation) and being abused by customers as i left work in the compnay uniform , the knowledge that the execs running the company were having a good laugh about it behind the scenes might make me resign. Given that I cared about the company I might well want to publicise the management attitude .
I'd be a bit surprised and disappointed if I were then described as a drama queen making a fuss about nothing.
Fair play to the Mail for finally reporting on the shit goings on at the club, regardless of how melodramatic it appears.
What's all this 'it's like Beruit now' all about? Did they chain her up all day? Were there bombs going off outside VP?
That's a bit harsh, ain't it? She's obviously aggrieved, and wanting to vent. This is reason for hoping she can't find work?Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
There are lots of people out of work. I hope she fails to find another one, silly arse.
That's a bit harsh, ain't it? She's obviously aggrieved, and wanting to vent. This is reason for hoping she can't find work?Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
There are lots of people out of work. I hope she fails to find another one, silly arse.
FWIW I'm glad someone's said something. Anything to illustrate the state of the club.
Fair play to the Mail for finally reporting on the shit goings on at the club, regardless of how melodramatic it appears.
And since when has what kind of biscuits people eat with their coffee got to do with anything?
Do you always just react to what you read, without thinking about what might actually be behind the headline?Fair play to the Mail for finally reporting on the shit goings on at the club, regardless of how melodramatic it appears.
And since when has what kind of biscuits people eat with their coffee got to do with anything?
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.That's a bit harsh, ain't it? She's obviously aggrieved, and wanting to vent. This is reason for hoping she can't find work?Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
There are lots of people out of work. I hope she fails to find another one, silly arse.
FWIW I'm glad someone's said something. Anything to illustrate the state of the club.
It doesn't say anything about the state of the club, though. It's sensationalist nonsense. The chairman doesn't attend, anyone who swears at senior management might be ejected, there's a load of agency staff doing casual work and some will lose their jobs when we get relegated. None of this is news.
That's a bit harsh, ain't it? She's obviously aggrieved, and wanting to vent. This is reason for hoping she can't find work?Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
There are lots of people out of work. I hope she fails to find another one, silly arse.
FWIW I'm glad someone's said something. Anything to illustrate the state of the club.
It doesn't say anything about the state of the club, though. It's sensationalist nonsense. The chairman doesn't attend, anyone who swears at senior management might be ejected, there's a load of agency staff doing casual work and some will lose their jobs when we get relegated. None of this is news.
What is also depressing is that the Aston Villa chief exec feels the need to have bodyguards to protect him from the fans. If ever there there was a symbol of the current state of the club.
That's a bit harsh, ain't it? She's obviously aggrieved, and wanting to vent. This is reason for hoping she can't find work?Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
There are lots of people out of work. I hope she fails to find another one, silly arse.
FWIW I'm glad someone's said something. Anything to illustrate the state of the club.
It doesn't say anything about the state of the club, though. It's sensationalist nonsense. The chairman doesn't attend, anyone who swears at senior management might be ejected, there's a load of agency staff doing casual work and some will lose their jobs when we get relegated. None of this is news.
The abuse of staff wearing club uniforms while execs hide with their minders without a care in the world was news to me.(As stated in radio interview)
Well, in a similar vein, I know of someone who has rented a box at the club for years.
They are not renewing. The reason being that when they are served with the meal, they are no longer served meat that is carved at the table.
They are served pre-prepared meals.
Now, some may think that things like that do not matter, nor the quality of the biscuits, but it maters to some people.
It called standards.
And, if you are used to certain standards and those standards are lowered, all in the name of cost cutting, then it should be highlighted. Because, whilst the standards are dropped, and the costs are cut, the price to the fan or box holder, does not reduce.
So, whether it's biscuits, carved meat, quality wine or lack of quality player signings, the clear and obvious picture is the club is cutting, cutting, cutting.
If that doesn't bother you, then bully for you!
Serves you right for trying to palm it off as the matchday programme.That's a bit harsh, ain't it? She's obviously aggrieved, and wanting to vent. This is reason for hoping she can't find work?Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
There are lots of people out of work. I hope she fails to find another one, silly arse.
FWIW I'm glad someone's said something. Anything to illustrate the state of the club.
It doesn't say anything about the state of the club, though. It's sensationalist nonsense. The chairman doesn't attend, anyone who swears at senior management might be ejected, there's a load of agency staff doing casual work and some will lose their jobs when we get relegated. None of this is news.
The abuse of staff wearing club uniforms while execs hide with their minders without a care in the world was news to me.(As stated in radio interview)
Again, we don't know the full story but I do know that for years the shop staff have been getting abused after a defeat. We even used to get it selling H&V.
That's a bit harsh, ain't it? She's obviously aggrieved, and wanting to vent. This is reason for hoping she can't find work?Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
There are lots of people out of work. I hope she fails to find another one, silly arse.
FWIW I'm glad someone's said something. Anything to illustrate the state of the club.
Fair play to the Mail for finally reporting on the shit goings on at the club, regardless of how melodramatic it appears.
And since when has what kind of biscuits people eat with their coffee got to do with anything?Do you always just react to what you read, without thinking about what might actually be behind the headline?Fair play to the Mail for finally reporting on the shit goings on at the club, regardless of how melodramatic it appears.
And since when has what kind of biscuits people eat with their coffee got to do with anything?
That's a bit harsh, ain't it? She's obviously aggrieved, and wanting to vent. This is reason for hoping she can't find work?Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
There are lots of people out of work. I hope she fails to find another one, silly arse.
FWIW I'm glad someone's said something. Anything to illustrate the state of the club.
I was out of work for two years, it's tough getting back in. Leaving a job and telling the whole world that working for a Premiership Football Club she's supported all her life is 'like Beruit' doesn't leave me with a great deal of sympathy for her to be honest, sorry about that. I hope her job goes to someone who desperately needs one.
I must've missed the reference to Beirut. But maybe she left because the whole situation had become intolerable for her. Now I don't know if it was her only source of income, but if her feelings are as implied by the Mail story (I've really not had time to dig around every article on this story today) then to feel motivated to throw it in after 40 years AND talk to the media gives a negative impression of our club.That's a bit harsh, ain't it? She's obviously aggrieved, and wanting to vent. This is reason for hoping she can't find work?Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
There are lots of people out of work. I hope she fails to find another one, silly arse.
FWIW I'm glad someone's said something. Anything to illustrate the state of the club.
I was out of work for two years, it's tough getting back in. Leaving a job and telling the whole world that working for a Premiership Football Club she's supported all her life is 'like Beruit' doesn't leave me with a great deal of sympathy for her to be honest, sorry about that. I hope her job goes to someone who desperately needs one.
That's a bit harsh, ain't it? She's obviously aggrieved, and wanting to vent. This is reason for hoping she can't find work?Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
There are lots of people out of work. I hope she fails to find another one, silly arse.
FWIW I'm glad someone's said something. Anything to illustrate the state of the club.
I was out of work for two years, it's tough getting back in. Leaving a job and telling the whole world that working for a Premiership Football Club she's supported all her life is 'like Beruit' doesn't leave me with a great deal of sympathy for her to be honest, sorry about that. I hope her job goes to someone who desperately needs one.I must've missed the reference to Beirut. But maybe she left because the whole situation had become intolerable for her. Now I don't know if it was her only source of income, but if her feelings are as implied by the Mail story (I've really not had time to dig around every article on this story today) then to feel motivated to throw it in after 40 years AND talk to the media gives a negative impression of our club.That's a bit harsh, ain't it? She's obviously aggrieved, and wanting to vent. This is reason for hoping she can't find work?Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
There are lots of people out of work. I hope she fails to find another one, silly arse.
FWIW I'm glad someone's said something. Anything to illustrate the state of the club.
I was out of work for two years, it's tough getting back in. Leaving a job and telling the whole world that working for a Premiership Football Club she's supported all her life is 'like Beruit' doesn't leave me with a great deal of sympathy for her to be honest, sorry about that. I hope her job goes to someone who desperately needs one.
This Lady has spoken out publicly about her unhappy Villa experience.
Good for her.
I read the other day that a young girl was evicted from Villa Park and that her Season Ticket was confiscated or cancelled for speaking to Fox.
Good for her.
I wish i had the chance to do what these girls have done.
It's all too easy to post on a Fans website.
There still seem to be happy clappers about.
Hurry up Mr Lerner, sell the Club.
That's a bit harsh, ain't it? She's obviously aggrieved, and wanting to vent. This is reason for hoping she can't find work?Blimey!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-exposed-worker-resigns-10914192
There are lots of people out of work. I hope she fails to find another one, silly arse.
FWIW I'm glad someone's said something. Anything to illustrate the state of the club.
I was out of work for two years, it's tough getting back in. Leaving a job and telling the whole world that working for a Premiership Football Club she's supported all her life is 'like Beruit' doesn't leave me with a great deal of sympathy for her to be honest, sorry about that. I hope her job goes to someone who desperately needs one.
Stripping dedicated fans of their season ticket is an absolute disgrace. Get Fox out of the club, that shameful imbecile.This club I love, the running of it makes me sick.
I'm happy for both women for standing up against this shit.
She gave up her working wage in revolt to the joke our club has become. I don't care if it's a premier league club or a sandwich shop, good for her.
It has to start and stop somewhere. This club makes me sick.
Stripping dedicated fans of their season ticket is an absolute disgrace. Get Fox out of the club, that shameful imbecile.This club I love, the running of it makes me sick.
I'm happy for both women for standing up against this shit.
She gave up her working wage in revolt to the joke our club has become. I don't care if it's a premier league club or a sandwich shop, good for her.
It has to start and stop somewhere. This club makes me sick.
Somebody's not renewing because their meat isn't served at the table properly?
Fuck modern football right in its twatty ear.
It's run. albeit badly, like a modern day business with long periods of silence interspersed with large dollops of 'spin'.Stripping dedicated fans of their season ticket is an absolute disgrace. Get Fox out of the club, that shameful imbecile.This club I love, the running of it makes me sick.
I'm happy for both women for standing up against this shit.
She gave up her working wage in revolt to the joke our club has become. I don't care if it's a premier league club or a sandwich shop, good for her.
It has to start and stop somewhere. This club makes me sick.
Yeah, should've said that. Love the club, but the day to day operations eat me alive.
Somebody's not renewing because their meat isn't served at the table properly?
Fuck modern football right in its twatty ear.
It's going to be very late in the day before all Villa fans really appreciate what's going on at this club.
It's going to be very late in the day before all Villa fans really appreciate what's going on at this club.
Well there's been a constant down playing of the problems at the club until the shit has completely hit the fan this season.
Somebody's not renewing because their meat isn't served at the table properly?
Fuck modern football right in its twatty ear.
Why should they keep paying if the standard of service they receive is dropping? I'd have thought one of the main reasons someone has a box is the service they receive, otherwise they'd 'just' have a normal ST.
Somebody's not renewing because their meat isn't served at the table properly?
Fuck modern football right in its twatty ear.
Why should they keep paying if the standard of service they receive is dropping? I'd have thought one of the main reasons someone has a box is the service they receive, otherwise they'd 'just' have a normal ST.
I'm sure how chilled the champagne is and how choice the meat is must be great concerns. I get corporate schmoozing, but it doesn't alter my view that it's shit.
It's going to be very late in the day before all Villa fans really appreciate what's going on at this club.
Well there's been a constant down playing of the problems at the club until the shit has completely hit the fan this season.
Sad to see people attacking this former employee who has revealed so much. Whistleblowers should be supported not held up to ridicule.
It's going to be very late in the day before all Villa fans really appreciate what's going on at this club.
Well there's been a constant down playing of the problems at the club until the shit has completely hit the fan this season.
It's going to be very late in the day before all Villa fans really appreciate what's going on at this club.
Well there's been a constant down playing of the problems at the club until the shit has completely hit the fan this season.
Sad to see people attacking this former employee who has revealed so much. Whistleblowers should be supported not held up to ridicule.
She's "revealed" nothing other than she's a bit pissed off because her job isn't what it used to be while local media with a blatant agenda are making out that a few bits of gossip - most of which are common knowledge - equates to Woodward and Bernstein.
It's going to be very late in the day before all Villa fans really appreciate what's going on at this club.
Well there's been a constant down playing of the problems at the club until the shit has completely hit the fan this season.
Sad to see people attacking this former employee who has revealed so much. Whistleblowers should be supported not held up to ridicule.
She's "revealed" nothing other than she's a bit pissed off because her job isn't what it used to be while local media with a blatant agenda are making out that a few bits of gossip - most of which are common knowledge - equates to Woodward and Bernstein.
To be fair, I didn't know that Fox had two body guards at all times.. or that he stripped supporters of their season tickets for simple and deserved dissent. That stinks of Putin and it's a joke.
I didn't know certain employees were cut off at halftime as a money saving tactic. That can't be true. How much could that really save? £2-3,000? Pathetic.
I'm glad she stuck up for other employees caught in the crossfire, too.
Somebody's not renewing because their meat isn't served at the table properly?
Fuck modern football right in its twatty ear.
Why should they keep paying if the standard of service they receive is dropping? I'd have thought one of the main reasons someone has a box is the service they receive, otherwise they'd 'just' have a normal ST.
I'm sure how chilled the champagne is and how choice the meat is must be great concerns. I get corporate schmoozing, but it doesn't alter my view that it's shit.
When they are spending thousands for hospitality i'm sure it is a concern if it's a lower standard.
Same as people on here would complain if the pies/beer were of lower quality but cost the same.
And it's nothing to do with modern football, there's been boxes at VP since the North Stand was built.
Perhaps somewhat naively, I have always viewed Villa as a club that has certain standards and a touch of class. It seems that is no longer the case.
If it's true, and it is an if as I don't know for sure, it's worrying as well if they are scrimping money on the people that spend a fortune. It's £9-40K a year for a box at VP, depending on size and the stand, and they pay that mainly for the hospitality and rightly expect a certain standard of service to continue. It may not mean much to most of us as we don't relate to it but if it pisses off someone paying maybe £40K a year into the coffers then it matters as they aren't just paying to watch the game, they are paying for the bells and whistles as well.Absolutely right. This is big money and that's why clubs like Arsenal have invested a fortune to exploit corporate hospitality and gather the riches it brings. We must not dismiss it as who cares about "prawn sandwich" brigade.
What frightens me is that we aren't just a premier league club heading for a bumpy ride for a few years due to a couple of bad managers and a poor set of players, like say Boro, Derby, Fulham or even Forest, but we are a broken club on a fast spiral downwards like Leeds or Pompey. We all know that there isn't a quick fix in the summer - that a change of manager (rightly or wrongly) or the injection of 4 decent players will remedy. It is fundamentally broken, some of the players on paper aren't THAT bad and all of our recent managers aren't successively more shit than their predecessor. Look at the rate of demise of Leeds (when they fell quickly to Div 3) and Pompey and it was all about dreadful business decisions, asset stripping and downgrading without a proper infrastructure in place. I hope to God I am wrong but there is very little to cling onto right now.The club isn't just on a slippery slope it's fallen off a precipice. The disinterested American has appointed another layer of mediocrity to hide behind in axeman Hollis. Lerner a man who strikes me as barely capable of brushing his own teeth has forgotten we exist, we will be sold when he snuffs it: when they clear out his estate and someone finds this little soccer club dear old Randy owns. The the slide will continue until this point. I'm depressed...
I've read through all of the last few pages of this thread and I listened to the interview on the link on here.Absolutely agree. A true Villa fan of many years according to a friend of mine who wouldn't of done this lightly I hope she has another job lined up following her resignation
What she is saying is a typical description of life at Villa Park of late including match days. I prefer to use the evidence of my own eyes and ears and this only backs up what she is saying, stewards and police jumping on fans in the lower Doug Ellis whose only 'crime' was to spontaneously start a we want Lerner out chant, one of the girls at work who isn't a Villa fan does the betting in the Trinity and she has told me the fans are'nt happy about self service for food, one of the customers I speak to is the printer who did a lot of work for the Villa including all the mosaic panels we held up at Wembley and his opinion now is terrible of the state of the club.
I did leave after the 5th goal on Sunday and walking down Witton Lane glanced inside the Doug Ellis and fancied another quick look , only to be greeted by a surly steward whose attitude a member of Hitler's SS would have been proud of.
Fair play to that lady.
What frightens me is that we aren't just a premier league club heading for a bumpy ride for a few years due to a couple of bad managers and a poor set of players, like say Boro, Derby, Fulham or even Forest, but we are a broken club on a fast spiral downwards like Leeds or Pompey. We all know that there isn't a quick fix in the summer - that a change of manager (rightly or wrongly) or the injection of 4 decent players will remedy. It is fundamentally broken, some of the players on paper aren't THAT bad and all of our recent managers aren't successively more shit than their predecessor. Look at the rate of demise of Leeds (when they fell quickly to Div 3) and Pompey and it was all about dreadful business decisions, asset stripping and downgrading without a proper infrastructure in place. I hope to God I am wrong but there is very little to cling onto right now.
I've read through all of the last few pages of this thread and I listened to the interview on the link on here.Absolutely agree. A true Villa fan of many years according to a friend of mine who wouldn't of done this lightly I hope she has another job lined up following her resignation
What she is saying is a typical description of life at Villa Park of late including match days. I prefer to use the evidence of my own eyes and ears and this only backs up what she is saying, stewards and police jumping on fans in the lower Doug Ellis whose only 'crime' was to spontaneously start a we want Lerner out chant, one of the girls at work who isn't a Villa fan does the betting in the Trinity and she has told me the fans are'nt happy about self service for food, one of the customers I speak to is the printer who did a lot of work for the Villa including all the mosaic panels we held up at Wembley and his opinion now is terrible of the state of the club.
I did leave after the 5th goal on Sunday and walking down Witton Lane glanced inside the Doug Ellis and fancied another quick look , only to be greeted by a surly steward whose attitude a member of Hitler's SS would have been proud of.
Fair play to that lady.
I've read through all of the last few pages of this thread and I listened to the interview on the link on here.Absolutely agree. A true Villa fan of many years according to a friend of mine who wouldn't of done this lightly I hope she has another job lined up following her resignation
What she is saying is a typical description of life at Villa Park of late including match days. I prefer to use the evidence of my own eyes and ears and this only backs up what she is saying, stewards and police jumping on fans in the lower Doug Ellis whose only 'crime' was to spontaneously start a we want Lerner out chant, one of the girls at work who isn't a Villa fan does the betting in the Trinity and she has told me the fans are'nt happy about self service for food, one of the customers I speak to is the printer who did a lot of work for the Villa including all the mosaic panels we held up at Wembley and his opinion now is terrible of the state of the club.
I did leave after the 5th goal on Sunday and walking down Witton Lane glanced inside the Doug Ellis and fancied another quick look , only to be greeted by a surly steward whose attitude a member of Hitler's SS would have been proud of.
Fair play to that lady.
It isn't her job. She does a couple of hours on matchday.
Yes, if only the club would fill us in on the facts but unfortunately they've declined to commentI've read through all of the last few pages of this thread and I listened to the interview on the link on here.Absolutely agree. A true Villa fan of many years according to a friend of mine who wouldn't of done this lightly I hope she has another job lined up following her resignation
What she is saying is a typical description of life at Villa Park of late including match days. I prefer to use the evidence of my own eyes and ears and this only backs up what she is saying, stewards and police jumping on fans in the lower Doug Ellis whose only 'crime' was to spontaneously start a we want Lerner out chant, one of the girls at work who isn't a Villa fan does the betting in the Trinity and she has told me the fans are'nt happy about self service for food, one of the customers I speak to is the printer who did a lot of work for the Villa including all the mosaic panels we held up at Wembley and his opinion now is terrible of the state of the club.
I did leave after the 5th goal on Sunday and walking down Witton Lane glanced inside the Doug Ellis and fancied another quick look , only to be greeted by a surly steward whose attitude a member of Hitler's SS would have been proud of.
Fair play to that lady.
It isn't her job. She does a couple of hours on matchday.
It's amazing how much she apparently knows just by doing a couple of hours on a Saturday.
Yes, if only the club would fill us in on the facts but unfortunately they've declined to comment
You're right of course but by "declining to comment " gives the impression there is nothing to defend and just adds to the ire of the fans as it just fuels the opinion that they really don't care what we think So a bit like the transfer window they chose to do nothing.
Yes, if only the club would fill us in on the facts but unfortunately they've declined to comment
They should comment, and as Paulie W said on a different topic some time ago, this is the sort of thing they used to bat away without blinking, but a lot of what she's saying is conjecture, without fact on either side.
You're right of course but by "declining to comment " gives the impression there is nothing to defend and just adds to the ire of the fans as it just fuels the opinion that they really don't care what we think So a bit like the transfer window they chose to do nothing.
Yes, if only the club would fill us in on the facts but unfortunately they've declined to comment
They should comment, and as Paulie W said on a different topic some time ago, this is the sort of thing they used to bat away without blinking, but a lot of what she's saying is conjecture, without fact on either side.
I've read through all of the last few pages of this thread and I listened to the interview on the link on here.Absolutely agree. A true Villa fan of many years according to a friend of mine who wouldn't of done this lightly I hope she has another job lined up following her resignation
What she is saying is a typical description of life at Villa Park of late including match days. I prefer to use the evidence of my own eyes and ears and this only backs up what she is saying, stewards and police jumping on fans in the lower Doug Ellis whose only 'crime' was to spontaneously start a we want Lerner out chant, one of the girls at work who isn't a Villa fan does the betting in the Trinity and she has told me the fans are'nt happy about self service for food, one of the customers I speak to is the printer who did a lot of work for the Villa including all the mosaic panels we held up at Wembley and his opinion now is terrible of the state of the club.
I did leave after the 5th goal on Sunday and walking down Witton Lane glanced inside the Doug Ellis and fancied another quick look , only to be greeted by a surly steward whose attitude a member of Hitler's SS would have been proud of.
Fair play to that lady.
It isn't her job. She does a couple of hours on matchday.
It's amazing how much she apparently knows just by doing a couple of hours on a Saturday.
Just get a Sharpie and right Lerner out on a tennis ball and throw it into the pitch as the players come out of the tunnel, a few thousand of those for the stewards to pick up and throw out instead of the fans.
Aren't we better off doing something positive, like holding up 'For Sale' boards? You never know there may be an insane billionaire watching...
Haha, he'd just tell us the other clubs are infedels while starving us fans of an success.Aren't we better off doing something positive, like holding up 'For Sale' boards? You never know there may be an insane billionaire watching...
Kim Jong-un with our luck
As much as I loath Learner and what he has done to the club, I don't see the point of 'Learner out' protests. He wants out anyway, he's just selling to any bidder that comes along, and nor should he. If there is an interested party out there, I would imagine they are waiting to buy a championship team.
As much as I loath Learner and what he has done to the club, I don't see the point of 'Learner out' protests. He wants out anyway, he's just selling to any bidder that comes along, and nor should he. If there is an interested party out there, I would imagine they are waiting to buy a championship team.Does he really want to sell? I suspect he wants to recoup the absolute maximum before bailing out. There will be an even more obvious slash and burn policy before he sells us to whoever will pony up the cash. Hold on to your seats...
Maybe we should all take L plates to the last game and chuck em on the pitch.
I wonder if he really wants to sell. I think a successful protest would encourage Lerner to sell/exit more rapidly. If he has the media constantly on his back it will provide pressure and motivation to sell as quickly as possible. No pressure and he could be here for years trying to recoup his investment a bit at a time.As much as I loath Learner and what he has done to the club, I don't see the point of 'Learner out' protests. He wants out anyway, he's just selling to any bidder that comes along, and nor should he. If there is an interested party out there, I would imagine they are waiting to buy a championship team.Does he really want to sell? I suspect he wants to recoup the absolute maximum before bailing out. There will be an even more obvious slash and burn policy before he sells us to whoever will pony up the cash. Hold on to your seats...
I agree wholeheartedly, making owning the club as miserable as supporting it has become. It may damage the club in the short term, but custodian calamity is killing it stone dead anyway.I wonder if he really wants to sell. I think a successful protest would encourage Lerner to sell/exit more rapidly. If he has the media constantly on his back it will provide pressure and motivation to sell as quickly as possible. No pressure and he could be here for years trying to recoup his investment a bit at a time.As much as I loath Learner and what he has done to the club, I don't see the point of 'Learner out' protests. He wants out anyway, he's just selling to any bidder that comes along, and nor should he. If there is an interested party out there, I would imagine they are waiting to buy a championship team.Does he really want to sell? I suspect he wants to recoup the absolute maximum before bailing out. There will be an even more obvious slash and burn policy before he sells us to whoever will pony up the cash. Hold on to your seats...
I've worked in a failing/struggling business (which Aston Villa is IMO) and the hostility/anger of customers quickly becomes an all consuming management headache. If Fox et al are taking a pounding from their stakeholders (sorry) then it makes a massive difference. Who'd sponsor Villa is there are protests every game? It would have wide ranging consequences in everything the wider management team at Villa do on a day to day basis.
So I don't buy the fact that it won't make any difference - it will. A huge one. We should make it as uncomfortable for the management as we can - at the moment they've got an easy ride.
As much as I loath Learner and what he has done to the club, I don't see the point of 'Learner out' protests. He wants out anyway, he's just selling to any bidder that comes along, and nor should he. If there is an interested party out there, I would imagine they are waiting to buy a championship team.
Lerner
Tom Fox has been quoted as saying that Lerner wasn't a motivated seller. This was January last year to be fair but nothing has been said by the club to counter that statement. So what are we to conclude?As much as I loath Learner and what he has done to the club, I don't see the point of 'Learner out' protests. He wants out anyway, he's just selling to any bidder that comes along, and nor should he. If there is an interested party out there, I would imagine they are waiting to buy a championship team.Does he really want to sell? I suspect he wants to recoup the absolute maximum before bailing out. There will be an even more obvious slash and burn policy before he sells us to whoever will pony up the cash. Hold on to your seats...
Doh! CorrectedAs much as I loath Learner and what he has done to the club, I don't see the point of 'Learner out' protests. He wants out anyway, he's just selling to any bidder that comes along, and nor should he. If there is an interested party out there, I would imagine they are waiting to buy a championship team.
Lerner
She's a driving instructor, I believe.
What frightens me is that we aren't just a premier league club heading for a bumpy ride for a few years due to a couple of bad managers and a poor set of players, like say Boro, Derby, Fulham or even Forest, but we are a broken club on a fast spiral downwards like Leeds or Pompey. We all know that there isn't a quick fix in the summer - that a change of manager (rightly or wrongly) or the injection of 4 decent players will remedy. It is fundamentally broken, some of the players on paper aren't THAT bad and all of our recent managers aren't successively more shit than their predecessor. Look at the rate of demise of Leeds (when they fell quickly to Div 3) and Pompey and it was all about dreadful business decisions, asset stripping and downgrading without a proper infrastructure in place. I hope to God I am wrong but there is very little to cling onto right now.
What frightens me is that we aren't just a premier league club heading for a bumpy ride for a few years due to a couple of bad managers and a poor set of players, like say Boro, Derby, Fulham or even Forest, but we are a broken club on a fast spiral downwards like Leeds or Pompey. We all know that there isn't a quick fix in the summer - that a change of manager (rightly or wrongly) or the injection of 4 decent players will remedy. It is fundamentally broken, some of the players on paper aren't THAT bad and all of our recent managers aren't successively more shit than their predecessor. Look at the rate of demise of Leeds (when they fell quickly to Div 3) and Pompey and it was all about dreadful business decisions, asset stripping and downgrading without a proper infrastructure in place. I hope to God I am wrong but there is very little to cling onto right now.
Good post. It has been clear for years that something very fundamental was wrong at villa and I am uncomfortable that I initially bought into a lot of the PR/spin about MON being the public enemy number one. MON was long gone by say 2012, we had made huge profits on some of his big signings and had additional seasons of Premier League cash to clear our financial problems.
Anyway, that's beside the point. What is frustrating is this car crash has been coming for half a decade. The ineptness of our owners has been clear to see yet villa fans have been divided with half doing the other half on daft technicalities. I mean, siding with an absent billionaire letting our club burn over a low-paid member of staff? Come on, it's desperate.
"Not a motivated seller". I mean, this phrase sums up perfectly the meaningless, half-baked nonsense of the Lerner era. What on earth does it even mean? It's obfuscation of the highest order.
"Not a motivated seller". I mean, this phrase sums up perfectly the meaningless, half-baked nonsense of the Lerner era. What on earth does it even mean? It's obfuscation of the highest order.
Makes you wonder, especially when considering the news that Bristol Rovers have been taken over by a Jordanian billionaire yesterday.
No one is buying football clubs any more, apparently.
"Not a motivated seller". I mean, this phrase sums up perfectly the meaningless, half-baked nonsense of the Lerner era. What on earth does it even mean? It's obfuscation of the highest order.I take it to mean he'll only sell if he gets the price he wants. The question is since he isn't getting the price he wants what happens when we're in the Championship? Much less likely to sell so where does that leave us? Waiting for us to do a Southampton or suchlike and get back into the Premiership but on a much lower cost base.
"Not a motivated seller". I mean, this phrase sums up perfectly the meaningless, half-baked nonsense of the Lerner era. What on earth does it even mean? It's obfuscation of the highest order.
Makes you wonder, especially when considering the news that Bristol Rovers have been taken over by a Jordanian billionaire yesterday.
No one is buying football clubs any more, apparently.
Isn't it just like when QPR were part owned by the Mittal's and were about to become the biggest club in the universe? Do you think this Jordanian bloke is about to make Bristol Rovers a superpower? If he was serious about owning a team he'd own one in a division that gave him greater visibility. Otherwise it's a hobby.
Buying a Bristol team and spending money could be a decent investment
"Not a motivated seller". I mean, this phrase sums up perfectly the meaningless, half-baked nonsense of the Lerner era. What on earth does it even mean? It's obfuscation of the highest order.I take it to mean he'll only sell if he gets the price he wants. The question is since he isn't getting the price he wants what happens when we're in the Championship? Much less likely to sell so where does that leave us? Waiting for us to do a Southampton or suchlike and get back into the Premiership but on a much lower cost base.
The problem is there is no one at the club putting in place a strategy to do that or indeed anyone who seems capable of doing so. All the current management team have done is to relegate a massive club. Its taken 5 years and lots of near misses but they're finally done it. They're not going to turn the club around so who is?
Buying a Bristol team and spending money could be a decent investment
Plymouth would be the side i'd be buying, I reckon they have massive potential.
The truth about Fox visiting Lerner in America in January '16 seems to be out now. We all thought it was to discuss a transfer strategy (though why one wasn't in place from 1.1.16 is beyond me). No it was to discuss the hiring of bodyguards, the denying of freedom of speech and expression at VP, the ejection and subsequent banning of supporters, the policy of complete silence from all board members and Lerner of course etc etc (anything other than talking transfers). That must have been some negative meeting between two pathetic and irrelevant a-seholes.
The truth about Fox visiting Lerner in America in January '16 seems to be out now. We all thought it was to discuss a transfer strategy (though why one wasn't in place from 1.1.16 is beyond me). No it was to discuss the hiring of bodyguards, the denying of freedom of speech and expression at VP, the ejection and subsequent banning of supporters, the policy of complete silence from all board members and Lerner of course etc etc (anything other than talking transfers). That must have been some negative meeting between two pathetic and irrelevant a-seholes.
Welcome to the paranoid ward.
We should be hearing that but we wont because it is a collective failure of the management team. They will be in self preservation mode now. In my experience when this happens in a business people go into bunker mentality and blame everyone but themselves and start to see the "customers" as part of the problem."Not a motivated seller". I mean, this phrase sums up perfectly the meaningless, half-baked nonsense of the Lerner era. What on earth does it even mean? It's obfuscation of the highest order.I take it to mean he'll only sell if he gets the price he wants. The question is since he isn't getting the price he wants what happens when we're in the Championship? Much less likely to sell so where does that leave us? Waiting for us to do a Southampton or suchlike and get back into the Premiership but on a much lower cost base.
The problem is there is no one at the club putting in place a strategy to do that or indeed anyone who seems capable of doing so. All the current management team have done is to relegate a massive club. Its taken 5 years and lots of near misses but they're finally done it. They're not going to turn the club around so who is?
Also conspicuous in their absence are any noises of disapproval from within the club. We should be hearing apologies and thanks to the fans for their support and of how the current situation is unacceptable and how everyone's working hard to rectify the situation.
"Not a motivated seller". I mean, this phrase sums up perfectly the meaningless, half-baked nonsense of the Lerner era. What on earth does it even mean? It's obfuscation of the highest order.
Makes you wonder, especially when considering the news that Bristol Rovers have been taken over by a Jordanian billionaire yesterday.
No one is buying football clubs any more, apparently.
Isn't it just like when QPR were part owned by the Mittal's and were about to become the biggest club in the universe? Do you think this Jordanian bloke is about to make Bristol Rovers a superpower? If he was serious about owning a team he'd own one in a division that gave him greater visibility. Otherwise it's a hobby.
I don't think it's analogous to the QPR takeover - which seemed to have been a case of 3 different blokes all wanting to run the club....at the same time. The talk is of building BR a new ground, which they have wanted for ages. We'll see, proof of the pudding and all that.
What is annoying is that there are clearly people out there willing to invest but for some reason, and I'd love to know why, no one is touching Villa with a bargepole.
The truth about Fox visiting Lerner in America in January '16 seems to be out now. We all thought it was to discuss a transfer strategy (though why one wasn't in place from 1.1.16 is beyond me). No it was to discuss the hiring of bodyguards, the denying of freedom of speech and expression at VP, the ejection and subsequent banning of supporters, the policy of complete silence from all board members and Lerner of course etc etc (anything other than talking transfers). That must have been some negative meeting between two pathetic and irrelevant a-seholes.
Welcome to the paranoid ward.
(http://mattforney.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Conspiracy-Theory.jpg)
"Not a motivated seller". I mean, this phrase sums up perfectly the meaningless, half-baked nonsense of the Lerner era. What on earth does it even mean? It's obfuscation of the highest order.
Makes you wonder, especially when considering the news that Bristol Rovers have been taken over by a Jordanian billionaire yesterday.
No one is buying football clubs any more, apparently.
Isn't it just like when QPR were part owned by the Mittal's and were about to become the biggest club in the universe? Do you think this Jordanian bloke is about to make Bristol Rovers a superpower? If he was serious about owning a team he'd own one in a division that gave him greater visibility. Otherwise it's a hobby.
I don't think it's analogous to the QPR takeover - which seemed to have been a case of 3 different blokes all wanting to run the club....at the same time. The talk is of building BR a new ground, which they have wanted for ages. We'll see, proof of the pudding and all that.
What is annoying is that there are clearly people out there willing to invest but for some reason, and I'd love to know why, no one is touching Villa with a bargepole.
If I had to hazard a guess I'd say a totally unrealistic asking price. When he first put the club up for sake wasn't the rumour he was long for £250m? He's probably not dropped the price he's such a stupid twerp it's gone up...
Aston Villa have launched a full-scale investigation into their catastrophic season.
New chairman Steve Hollis and boardroom recruit Sir Mervyn King are conducting an in-depth probe into the club’s affairs.
Consultants have been brought in to pick through the rubble of Villa’s dreadful campaign and the finances, recruitment processes and day-to-day administration are all coming under scrutiny.
And that could spell bad news for several senior staff with chief executive Tom Fox most likely to be in the firing line.
Arsenal’s former commercial officer has been in situ at Villa Park since August 2014 and has acted as the eyes and ears for absentee owner Randy Lerner.
But the awful state of affairs has prompted a roots and branch review and Fox himself – appointed on a £1m-a-year salary – could be the first casualty.
The American was the target of fans’ anger last week as Villa slumped to their worst home defeat in over 80 years in the six-goal thumping by Liverpool.
However, all decisions on Villa’s senior management will be delayed until the end of the season with the positions of sporting director Hendrik Almstadt and head of recruitment Paddy Riley also coming under the microscope.
With manager Remi Garde likely to consider his position at the end of the season there could be a complete overhaul of Villa’s hierarchy as they begin to re-build the former European Champions.
She sounds like a normal fan with her own views, what she says or thinks will not make the slightest bit of difference.
If possible can folks copy and paste Mail articles please. 1) It stops them gaining from click bait and 2) For a lot of folks with ad blocker it's a pain to read their site now. I know this is the Mirror but thought it a useful time to mention it.This is the way we'll get out of this - the club needs to have in place a wider management team that will have a strategy that will get us out of the Championship. Lerner can be aloof whilst he waits for someone to turn up who will give him his money back but until then the club needs to be managed on a day to day basis with a clear vision. By someone who actually understands what management and vision mean rather than being able to merely type it onto a PowerPoint slide.QuoteAston Villa have launched a full-scale investigation into their catastrophic season.
New chairman Steve Hollis and boardroom recruit Sir Mervyn King are conducting an in-depth probe into the club’s affairs.
Consultants have been brought in to pick through the rubble of Villa’s dreadful campaign and the finances, recruitment processes and day-to-day administration are all coming under scrutiny.
And that could spell bad news for several senior staff with chief executive Tom Fox most likely to be in the firing line.
Arsenal’s former commercial officer has been in situ at Villa Park since August 2014 and has acted as the eyes and ears for absentee owner Randy Lerner.
But the awful state of affairs has prompted a roots and branch review and Fox himself – appointed on a £1m-a-year salary – could be the first casualty.
The American was the target of fans’ anger last week as Villa slumped to their worst home defeat in over 80 years in the six-goal thumping by Liverpool.
However, all decisions on Villa’s senior management will be delayed until the end of the season with the positions of sporting director Hendrik Almstadt and head of recruitment Paddy Riley also coming under the microscope.
With manager Remi Garde likely to consider his position at the end of the season there could be a complete overhaul of Villa’s hierarchy as they begin to re-build the former European Champions.
Do we really, honestly need consultants?
Since Lerner said we were for sale aren't Everton the first club of note to be sold, assuming that sale goes through? It's not as though major clubs are changing hands every day.
There's a tad of a difference between buying Bristol Rovers and Aston Villa. Sheff Wed were sold a year or so ago but again there's a big difference between buying them for 30 odd million and buying a club the size of Villa.
What exactly has Randy done the passed 3 years apart from having his head in a bucket of sand?
Spot on. In theory there is nothing wrong with Sporting directors and Head of player recruitment and a CEO but when they are useless that's a problem.
I know the player recruitment was quite popular this summer on here but to me it was terrible. The midfielders signed at a cost of over £15m look bit part players, they lack strength or speed apart from Traore who seems the rawest of raw materials. For the money we paid and the needs we had the players signed are a poor selection. They could be decent soldiers but we needed a couple of generals too. We must have the slowest, weakest team in the division.
A good window. Now we need to get them to gel asap. If one of Ayew or Gestede adapts then we will surprise people.
Do we really, honestly need consultants?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-launch-investigation-disastrous-7408694maybe the first question should be why didn't we support the manager in the transfer window?
Do we need to spend money on consultants? I'm sure Elaine could tell us all we need to know. In fact I think she probably has.
Spot on. In theory there is nothing wrong with Sporting directors and Head of player recruitment and a CEO but when they are useless that's a problem.
I know the player recruitment was quite popular this summer on here but to me it was terrible. The midfielders signed at a cost of over £15m look bit part players, they lack strength or speed apart from Traore who seems the rawest of raw materials. For the money we paid and the needs we had the players signed are a poor selection. They could be decent soldiers but we needed a couple of generals too. We must have the slowest, weakest team in the division.A good window. Now we need to get them to gel asap. If one of Ayew or Gestede adapts then we will surprise people.
Spot on. In theory there is nothing wrong with Sporting directors and Head of player recruitment and a CEO but when they are useless that's a problem.
I know the player recruitment was quite popular this summer on here but to me it was terrible. The midfielders signed at a cost of over £15m look bit part players, they lack strength or speed apart from Traore who seems the rawest of raw materials. For the money we paid and the needs we had the players signed are a poor selection. They could be decent soldiers but we needed a couple of generals too. We must have the slowest, weakest team in the division.A good window. Now we need to get them to gel asap. If one of Ayew or Gestede adapts then we will surprise people.
Sorry I never spent the 6 months prior to summer scouting the players we we're buying.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-launch-investigation-disastrous-7408694maybe the first question should be why didn't we support the manager in the transfer window?
Spot on. In theory there is nothing wrong with Sporting directors and Head of player recruitment and a CEO but when they are useless that's a problem.
I know the player recruitment was quite popular this summer on here but to me it was terrible. The midfielders signed at a cost of over £15m look bit part players, they lack strength or speed apart from Traore who seems the rawest of raw materials. For the money we paid and the needs we had the players signed are a poor selection. They could be decent soldiers but we needed a couple of generals too. We must have the slowest, weakest team in the division.A good window. Now we need to get them to gel asap. If one of Ayew or Gestede adapts then we will surprise people.
Sorry I never spent the 6 months prior to summer scouting the players we we're buying.
But you thought it was a good window at the time. You can't claim to have known all along how what a bad window it was.
So we have a board that have to hire people to see where they went wrong? Whilst other people will be made redundant thanks to their sheer incompetence
Piss off
So we have a board that have to hire people to see where they went wrong? Whilst other people will be made redundant thanks to their sheer incompetenceI think it's right that new senior board members conduct an investigation and seek independent insight. Otherwise they will end up being told by Fox/Reilly/Almsted that they have a plan and they should be allowed to execute it and we will end up plugging a leaking dam with paper towels. I just after the enquiry is complete the principal people responsible ( the 3 I have mentioned) for our humiliation are shown the door.
Piss off
Spot on. In theory there is nothing wrong with Sporting directors and Head of player recruitment and a CEO but when they are useless that's a problem.
I know the player recruitment was quite popular this summer on here but to me it was terrible. The midfielders signed at a cost of over £15m look bit part players, they lack strength or speed apart from Traore who seems the rawest of raw materials. For the money we paid and the needs we had the players signed are a poor selection. They could be decent soldiers but we needed a couple of generals too. We must have the slowest, weakest team in the division.A good window. Now we need to get them to gel asap. If one of Ayew or Gestede adapts then we will surprise people.
Sorry I never spent the 6 months prior to summer scouting the players we we're buying.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-launch-investigation-disastrous-7408694maybe the first question should be why didn't we support the manager in the transfer window?
Forgive me if I don't feel filled with confidence that the person instigating the investigation didn't see fit to backing the manager in the transfer window. Maybe they should look into why he was given the job of chairman when he had no interest in the job in the first placeSo we have a board that have to hire people to see where they went wrong? Whilst other people will be made redundant thanks to their sheer incompetenceI think it's right that new senior board members conduct an investigation and seek independent insight. Otherwise they will end up being told by Fox/Reilly/Almsted that they have a plan and they should be allowed to execute it and we will end up plugging a leaking dam with paper towels. I just after the enquiry is complete the principal people responsible ( the 3 I have mentioned) for our humiliation are shown the door.
Piss off
Do we really, honestly need consultants?I have some great consultant quotes.
So we have a board that have to hire people to see where they went wrong? Whilst other people will be made redundant thanks to their sheer incompetence
Piss off
So we have a board that have to hire people to see where they went wrong? Whilst other people will be made redundant thanks to their sheer incompetence
Piss off
No. We've got two new board members who want to bring outside expertise (the very thing just about everyone has been clamouring for) to go through the whole shebang with a fine tooth comb and make recommendations as to how to put the shit bits right and how to make best use of whatever bits are actually fit for service.
The use of the word consultants could just as easily mean David Dein and SGT as faceless goons from PWC. In reality it will probably be somewhere in between.
Even if it costs a couple of million, if it sets us on the right path it will be the best £2M Lerner has spent in his time at the club.
As I said hopefully they will point out how useful the January transfer window can be to the new board member they need to be held accountable for surrendering the season in JanuarySo we have a board that have to hire people to see where they went wrong? Whilst other people will be made redundant thanks to their sheer incompetence
Piss off
No. We've got two new board members who want to bring outside expertise (the very thing just about everyone has been clamouring for) to go through the whole shebang with a fine tooth comb and make recommendations as to how to put the shit bits right and how to make best use of whatever bits are actually fit for service.
The use of the word consultants could just as easily mean David Dein and SGT as faceless goons from PWC. In reality it will probably be somewhere in between.
Even if it costs a couple of million, if it sets us on the right path it will be the best £2M Lerner has spent in his time at the club.
We've all done it, most of us hold our hands up though. Two of my best were saying Beye would be a good addition to the squad as he could cover most of the back 4 so would be great to have on the bench. And that the Gladiator was going to be a cracking player for us.
So we have a board that have to hire people to see where they went wrong? Whilst other people will be made redundant thanks to their sheer incompetence
Piss off
No. We've got two new board members who want to bring outside expertise (the very thing just about everyone has been clamouring for) to go through the whole shebang with a fine tooth comb and make recommendations as to how to put the shit bits right and how to make best use of whatever bits are actually fit for service.
The use of the word consultants could just as easily mean David Dein and SGT as faceless goons from PWC. In reality it will probably be somewhere in between.
Even if it costs a couple of million, if it sets us on the right path it will be the best £2M Lerner has spent in his time at the club.
I doubt Lerner has had anything to do with his.
At least I wasn't one of the many that thought the Milner/Ireland deal was one of the deals of the century in our favour. I did however think Zog would be more than decent for us.I was really happy with the Ireland and 20 million? deal. Amazing to think he was our player of the season and he was utter tosh
Gestede will score 20 in the championship
Amavi will be back. What a cross that bloke has on him.
In my 60+ years of working for large and small organisations, when consultants are brought in, they have to justify their large fees by recommending change, whether necessary or not.
There can be no doubt Aston Villa need change in the management of the club and those responsible for the situation that has developed over the last five years need to be held to account.
Will the consultants however, be football industry savvy, or be the sort our new board members have used in their past business lives, because if so, I can't be confident things will be improved on the football front.
Football clubs thrive on the back of pitch performance and we haven't had a consistent season for a long time. Get the squad right with the right manager, then start worrying about the business aspects of the club.
Spot on. In theory there is nothing wrong with Sporting directors and Head of player recruitment and a CEO but when they are useless that's a problem.
I know the player recruitment was quite popular this summer on here but to me it was terrible. The midfielders signed at a cost of over £15m look bit part players, they lack strength or speed apart from Traore who seems the rawest of raw materials. For the money we paid and the needs we had the players signed are a poor selection. They could be decent soldiers but we needed a couple of generals too. We must have the slowest, weakest team in the division.A good window. Now we need to get them to gel asap. If one of Ayew or Gestede adapts then we will surprise people.
Sorry I never spent the 6 months prior to summer scouting the players we we're buying.
Don't worry, lots of posters have got stuff wrong on here over the last 6 seasons, and I'm not gonna deny I thought Gestede could have been a cult hero at Villa. What a disaster that was.
Gestede will score 20 in the championship
Gestede will score 20 in the championship
I don't think Gestede would score 20 on a pinball machine. Unless we shape the whole team around him.
Gestede will score 20 in the championship
I don't think Gestede would score 20 on a pinball machine. Unless we shape the whole team around him.
He scored 20 in it last season.
Amavi will be back. What a cross that bloke has on him.
I think Amavi will tear that division up. Throw in Traore, a fresh start for Grealish. Players will leave, but I don't think it will be a mass exodus at all. What some of these players need is a fresh start away from this season. The majority of the teams in the Championship are bollocks. There's going to th sides who come down with us plus 3 or 4 others that will cause any significant challenge. We desperately need two good forwards coming in with mobility and you'll fine our midfield suddenly looking better, wingers finding targets and less pressure on the defence. Add in a better keeper it won't look so bad at that level. Then all of a sudden we will look like Hull did yesterday at Arsenal. Not much different to side that went down but so much more confidence and belief. The manager as much as the players needs the season to end, the purge to begin and then get a clean slate moving forward.
Amavi will be back. What a cross that bloke has on him.
I think Amavi will tear that division up. Throw in Traore, a fresh start for Grealish. Players will leave, but I don't think it will be a mass exodus at all. What some of these players need is a fresh start away from this season. The majority of the teams in the Championship are bollocks. There's going to th sides who come down with us plus 3 or 4 others that will cause any significant challenge. We desperately need two good forwards coming in with mobility and you'll fine our midfield suddenly looking better, wingers finding targets and less pressure on the defence. Add in a better keeper it won't look so bad at that level. Then all of a sudden we will look like Hull did yesterday at Arsenal. Not much different to side that went down but so much more confidence and belief. The manager as much as the players needs the season to end, the purge to begin and then get a clean slate moving forward.
I applaud the optimism, but we will probably need more physicality than we currently have, especially in midfield and defence. Some of our lightweight players like Gil will be subject to a shellacking in the Championship.
I assume the guy with the X-box is Paddy Reilly, the guy who turned up Veretout, Ayew, Amavi and Gueye? The better signings from the summer.
Where consensus seems to have been that Richards, Lescott and Gestede were Sherwood's own picks?
Gestede will score 20 in the championship
I don't think Gestede would score 20 on a pinball machine. Unless we shape the whole team around him.
He scored 20 in it last season.
Gestede will score 20 in the championship
I don't think Gestede would score 20 on a pinball machine. Unless we shape the whole team around him.
He scored 20 in it last season.
One season PWS. Daryl Murphy scored that many as well last season.
Gestede will score 20 in the championship
I don't think Gestede would score 20 on a pinball machine. Unless we shape the whole team around him.
He scored 20 in it last season.
One season PWS. Daryl Murphy scored that many as well last season.
Isn't the more significant point that it demonstrates the quality of that division and the gap between the PL and the next tier down? That despite going down Burnley and Hul are in contention to come straight back up, and the likes of Gestede can score 20 goals.
I think many of Rudy's goals came courtesy of a half decent winger at BBurn. He's had absolutely no supply for us, without Amavi. And as we've seen, if you can't play to his one strength, he's useless. I just wonder if Garde's brand of football is too modern and forward thinking for a CF like Gestede, whereas someone like Pubehead could be having a field day with Rudy, whilst simultaneously making us thoroughly one dimensional.Gestede will score 20 in the championship
I don't think Gestede would score 20 on a pinball machine. Unless we shape the whole team around him.
He scored 20 in it last season.
One season PWS. Daryl Murphy scored that many as well last season.
Isn't the more significant point that it demonstrates the quality of that division and the gap between the PL and the next tier down? That despite going down Burnley and Hul are in contention to come straight back up, and the likes of Gestede can score 20 goals.
Gestede will score 20 in the championship
I don't think Gestede would score 20 on a pinball machine. Unless we shape the whole team around him.
He scored 20 in it last season.
I assume the guy with the X-box is Paddy Reilly, the guy who turned up Veretout, Ayew, Amavi and Gueye? The better signings from the summer.
Agree, those players have shown some potential but not good enough to build the team on. my comment was more about the regime that put that squad together and thought it was good enough.I assume the guy with the X-box is Paddy Reilly, the guy who turned up Veretout, Ayew, Amavi and Gueye? The better signings from the summer.
And have looked very very average, unless you are just comparing the to Westwood, Clark etc, then yes they're the better players but they also cost nearly £30m and compared to the rest of the league haven't pulled up any trees at all.
Don't get me wrong, I think they're Ok and will do better with better players around them obvioously but they certainly haven't looked anything like worth the money we paid.
Agree, those players have shown some potential but not good enough to build the team on. my comment was more about the regime that put that squad together and thought it was good enough.I assume the guy with the X-box is Paddy Reilly, the guy who turned up Veretout, Ayew, Amavi and Gueye? The better signings from the summer.
And have looked very very average, 1 unless you are just comparing the to Westwood, Clark etc, then yes they're the better players but they also cost nearly £30m and compared to the rest of the league haven't pulled up any trees at all.
Don't get me wrong, I think they're Ok 2 and will do better with better players around them obvioously but they certainly haven't looked anything like worth the money we paid.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ignominy-of-aston-villa-1455834198I agree, good ones of VP.
News of our demise has even reached the WSJ. Nice watercolours though
Gestede will score 20 in the championship
I don't think Gestede would score 20 on a pinball machine. Unless we shape the whole team around him.
He scored 20 in it last season.
One season PWS. Daryl Murphy scored that many as well last season.
Isn't the more significant point that it demonstrates the quality of that division and the gap between the PL and the next tier down? That despite going down Burnley and Hul are in contention to come straight back up, and the likes of Gestede can score 20 goals.
I assume the guy with the X-box is Paddy Reilly, the guy who turned up Veretout, Ayew, Amavi and Gueye? The better signings from the summer.
Where consensus seems to have been that Richards, Lescott and Gestede were Sherwood's own picks?
Throw in Traore also who will end up being a significant player
I was excited when we signed him and nice cameo at Bournemouth, but what's he delivered since? Genuine qn, as Ive hardly watched us since Christmas.Not alot, in truth. The run and cross for Gil's goal at Sunderland? Although he is currently crocked, isn't he?
I am a big fan of Traore and the big difference with him, regardless of the alleged inflated wages is that, unlike large chunks of our squad he retains sell on value.
I was excited when we signed him and nice cameo at Bournemouth, but what's he delivered since? Genuine qn, as Ive hardly watched us since Christmas.Not alot, in truth. The run and cross for Gil's goal at Sunderland? Although he is currently crocked, isn't he?
Do we really, honestly need consultants?I have some great consultant quotes.
"Consultants are the people that come on to the battlefield when the fighting is over to shoot the wounded"
Where I come from, if you see a snake you shoot it, at General Motors they would hire a consultant on snakes. Ross Perot I thinkDo we really, honestly need consultants?I have some great consultant quotes.
"Consultants are the people that come on to the battlefield when the fighting is over to shoot the wounded"
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0535/6917/products/consultingdemotivator.jpeg)
Something for us all to look forward to.
My three major recommendations:
1)Buy lots of better footballers. This will involve capital investment but has a positive effect on the actual football side of the business. I believe in turn this will lead to better results, which research has shown can lead to increased income.
2)Employ senior, board room level types that have actually performed the role you require elsewhere.
3)Keep the manager.
Where do I send the invoice?
My three major recommendations:
1)Buy lots of better footballers. This will involve capital investment but has a positive effect on the actual football side of the business. I believe in turn this will lead to better results, which research has shown can lead to increased income.
2)Employ senior, board room level types that have actually performed the role you require elsewhere.
3)Keep the manager.
Where do I send the invoice?
As a general point, their are 2 problems with No 2.
1 is that no new blood ever gets into the system, if you only employ people who've already proven they can do it.
2 If you only ever employ people who've proven that they can do it, you end up with people who are past their sell by date. The 2 obvious examples for me are managers rather than boardroom / executive types. SGT should never have come back for round 2 and Nottingham Forrest would have been well served by pensioning Brian Clough off 2 years earlier.
In our instance, yes people who can just come in and get going from day 1 are vital.
Consultants are the people who come in, ask you what you do, tell you you're doing it wrong and that what you need to do is hire more consultants.
They also had Rhodes who scored 21 so Blackburn weren't set up for just one man.
Obviously he needs crosses to be really effective but as you said we have Amavi who can can put in cracking crosses and they can hardly have foreseen he'd be out for so much of the season, plus i'd imagine they'd have expected/hoped for more appearances from Adama. As well as more from Jack and Gil. The potential supply line is there, but a combination of injuries and lack of form have stuffed that.
I am a big fan of Traore and the big difference with him, regardless of the alleged inflated wages is that, unlike large chunks of our squad he retains sell on value.
My three major recommendations:
1)Buy lots of better footballers. This will involve capital investment but has a positive effect on the actual football side of the business. I believe in turn this will lead to better results, which research has shown can lead to increased income.
2)Employ senior, board room level types that have actually performed the role you require elsewhere.
3)Keep the manager.
Where do I send the invoice?
As a general point, their are 2 problems with No 2.
1 is that no new blood ever gets into the system, if you only employ people who've already proven they can do it.
2 If you only ever employ people who've proven that they can do it, you end up with people who are past their sell by date. The 2 obvious examples for me are managers rather than boardroom / executive types. SGT should never have come back for round 2 and Nottingham Forrest would have been well served by pensioning Brian Clough off 2 years earlier.
In our instance, yes people who can just come in and get going from day 1 are vital.
I absolutely appreciate that, those solutions are specific to our current plight.
Or what else are you paying me for? It's not just consultancy by numbers you know.
*huffs, turns back, pretends to study important paperwork*
My three major recommendations:
1)Buy lots of better footballers. This will involve capital investment but has a positive effect on the actual football side of the business. I believe in turn this will lead to better results, which research has shown can lead to increased income.
2)Employ senior, board room level types that have actually performed the role you require elsewhere.
3)Keep the manager.
Where do I send the invoice?
As a general point, their are 2 problems with No 2.
1 is that no new blood ever gets into the system, if you only employ people who've already proven they can do it.
2 If you only ever employ people who've proven that they can do it, you end up with people who are past their sell by date. The 2 obvious examples for me are managers rather than boardroom / executive types. SGT should never have come back for round 2 and Nottingham Forrest would have been well served by pensioning Brian Clough off 2 years earlier.
In our instance, yes people who can just come in and get going from day 1 are vital.
I absolutely appreciate that, those solutions are specific to our current plight.
Or what else are you paying me for? It's not just consultancy by numbers you know.
*huffs, turns back, pretends to study important paperwork*
Shouldn't that be walks off studying a clipboard?
We haven't had a Lean round for a couple of years. It might work in big manufacturing, it fucking doesn't in house insurance.
I don't know much about lean, but - talking of Toyota originated systems - we have what we call "an evolving agile environment" in our place.
So, we talk loads about agile and scrum, and some of it, we do - stand ups, backlog planning, sprints - but so much of it is totally impractical in our place that it becomes really unrecognisable as scrum. It's just a pick and mix of stuff we can and can't do.
I had to go on a certified scrum master training course before christmas (all management have to - despite us never having to function as scrum masters).
Within the first hour, the trainer started telling us how, if we didn't have our product owner embedded with the team full time, it just wasn't ever going to work as it "isn't scrum". I asked her what the fuck we're meant to do if that can't ever happen within our structure (at our place, it can't) and the answer was to just keep on asking people until it did happen. Marvellous.
I'm pretty sure that at our place the efficiency savings which we make through our bastardised version of scrum are all spunked away in the time we waste talking about scrum / debating whether we're ever going to be agile / evangelising scrum to others in the company.
The easiest way for consultants to improve things at our place would be to come in with AK-47s and a helpful member of staff pointing out the colleagues we could do without.
I don't know much about lean, but - talking of Toyota originated systems - we have what we call "an evolving agile environment" in our place.
So, we talk loads about agile and scrum, and some of it, we do - stand ups, backlog planning, sprints - but so much of it is totally impractical in our place that it becomes really unrecognisable as scrum. It's just a pick and mix of stuff we can and can't do.
I had to go on a certified scrum master training course before christmas (all management have to - despite us never having to function as scrum masters).
Within the first hour, the trainer started telling us how, if we didn't have our product owner embedded with the team full time, it just wasn't ever going to work as it "isn't scrum". I asked her what the fuck we're meant to do if that can't ever happen within our structure (at our place, it can't) and the answer was to just keep on asking people until it did happen. Marvellous.
I'm pretty sure that at our place the efficiency savings which we make through our bastardised version of scrum are all spunked away in the time we waste talking about scrum / debating whether we're ever going to be agile / evangelising scrum to others in the company.
The easiest way for consultants to improve things at our place would be to come in with AK-47s and a helpful member of staff pointing out the colleagues we could do without.
I work in the wankiest digital content producer in Soho and I STILL don't have a clue what any of that means!
I don't know much about lean, but - talking of Toyota originated systems - we have what we call "an evolving agile environment" in our place.
So, we talk loads about agile and scrum, and some of it, we do - stand ups, backlog planning, sprints - but so much of it is totally impractical in our place that it becomes really unrecognisable as scrum. It's just a pick and mix of stuff we can and can't do.
I had to go on a certified scrum master training course before christmas (all management have to - despite us never having to function as scrum masters).
Within the first hour, the trainer started telling us how, if we didn't have our product owner embedded with the team full time, it just wasn't ever going to work as it "isn't scrum". I asked her what the fuck we're meant to do if that can't ever happen within our structure (at our place, it can't) and the answer was to just keep on asking people until it did happen. Marvellous.
I'm pretty sure that at our place the efficiency savings which we make through our bastardised version of scrum are all spunked away in the time we waste talking about scrum / debating whether we're ever going to be agile / evangelising scrum to others in the company.
The easiest way for consultants to improve things at our place would be to come in with AK-47s and a helpful member of staff pointing out the colleagues we could do without.
I work in the wankiest digital content producer in Soho and I STILL don't have a clue what any of that means!
I think Paulie's got a job as a rugby coach.
I don't know much about lean, but - talking of Toyota originated systems - we have what we call "an evolving agile environment" in our place.
So, we talk loads about agile and scrum, and some of it, we do - stand ups, backlog planning, sprints - but so much of it is totally impractical in our place that it becomes really unrecognisable as scrum. It's just a pick and mix of stuff we can and can't do.
I had to go on a certified scrum master training course before christmas (all management have to - despite us never having to function as scrum masters).
Within the first hour, the trainer started telling us how, if we didn't have our product owner embedded with the team full time, it just wasn't ever going to work as it "isn't scrum". I asked her what the fuck we're meant to do if that can't ever happen within our structure (at our place, it can't) and the answer was to just keep on asking people until it did happen. Marvellous.
I'm pretty sure that at our place the efficiency savings which we make through our bastardised version of scrum are all spunked away in the time we waste talking about scrum / debating whether we're ever going to be agile / evangelising scrum to others in the company.
The easiest way for consultants to improve things at our place would be to come in with AK-47s and a helpful member of staff pointing out the colleagues we could do without.
I work in the wankiest digital content producer in Soho and I STILL don't have a clue what any of that means!
I suppose the alternative questions, without the need to name check the Villa, could be 'Are you a Birmingham City supporter?' and 'Would you ever consider becoming a Birmingham City supporter?' Affirmative answers to either would automatically rule the candidate out.
I suppose the alternative questions, without the need to name check the Villa, could be 'Are you a Birmingham City supporter?' and 'Would you ever consider becoming a Birmingham City supporter?' Affirmative answers to either would automatically rule the candidate out.
Just check for skinless knuckles.
I don't know much about lean, but - talking of Toyota originated systems - we have what we call "an evolving agile environment" in our place.
So, we talk loads about agile and scrum, and some of it, we do - stand ups, backlog planning, sprints - but so much of it is totally impractical in our place that it becomes really unrecognisable as scrum. It's just a pick and mix of stuff we can and can't do.
I had to go on a certified scrum master training course before christmas (all management have to - despite us never having to function as scrum masters).
Within the first hour, the trainer started telling us how, if we didn't have our product owner embedded with the team full time, it just wasn't ever going to work as it "isn't scrum". I asked her what the fuck we're meant to do if that can't ever happen within our structure (at our place, it can't) and the answer was to just keep on asking people until it did happen. Marvellous.
I'm pretty sure that at our place the efficiency savings which we make through our bastardised version of scrum are all spunked away in the time we waste talking about scrum / debating whether we're ever going to be agile / evangelising scrum to others in the company.
The easiest way for consultants to improve things at our place would be to come in with AK-47s and a helpful member of staff pointing out the colleagues we could do without.
I don't know much about lean, but - talking of Toyota originated systems - we have what we call "an evolving agile environment" in our place.
So, we talk loads about agile and scrum, and some of it, we do - stand ups, backlog planning, sprints - but so much of it is totally impractical in our place that it becomes really unrecognisable as scrum. It's just a pick and mix of stuff we can and can't do.
I had to go on a certified scrum master training course before christmas (all management have to - despite us never having to function as scrum masters).
Within the first hour, the trainer started telling us how, if we didn't have our product owner embedded with the team full time, it just wasn't ever going to work as it "isn't scrum". I asked her what the fuck we're meant to do if that can't ever happen within our structure (at our place, it can't) and the answer was to just keep on asking people until it did happen. Marvellous.
I'm pretty sure that at our place the efficiency savings which we make through our bastardised version of scrum are all spunked away in the time we waste talking about scrum / debating whether we're ever going to be agile / evangelising scrum to others in the company.
The easiest way for consultants to improve things at our place would be to come in with AK-47s and a helpful member of staff pointing out the colleagues we could do without.
Oh God, that sounds depressingly familiar.
I've worked on 3 agile projects, one worked very well, one was a bit half-assed but achieved something, and one was a total disaster. It really is all about the product owner.
The only advantage bad scrum has over waterfall is that you realise your project is doomed a lot quicker.
I think the theory is all fine. The problems start when you begin to try to put it into action.
Today I tried to get a product owner (a game producer) at our place to agree to come to a half-day backlog planning session this week. "I'm not spending 4 hours in a room listening to dev shit".
*sigh*
And what makes it worse is that I kind of see his point. I don't want to be there either. In fact, I won't, because I don't need to be, but getting people to buy in to the amount of time you lose to following 'good practice' is a huge problem for us.
Sprint planning, sprint reviews, backlog planning, it all saps a lot of time.
Decent article, sums everything up nicely but nothing we haven't heard before... Apologies if posted elsewhere.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/in-bed-with-maradona/2016/feb/25/aston-villa-relegation-premier-league-championship
Decent article, sums everything up nicely but nothing we haven't heard before... Apologies if posted elsewhere.That's grand that is. Ta.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/in-bed-with-maradona/2016/feb/25/aston-villa-relegation-premier-league-championship
Decent article, sums everything up nicely but nothing we haven't heard before... Apologies if posted elsewhere.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/in-bed-with-maradona/2016/feb/25/aston-villa-relegation-premier-league-championship
Decent article, sums everything up nicely but nothing we haven't heard before... Apologies if posted elsewhere.Nails it for me too.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/in-bed-with-maradona/2016/feb/25/aston-villa-relegation-premier-league-championship
Decent article, sums everything up nicely but nothing we haven't heard before... Apologies if posted elsewhere.The author is a Villa fan. He does the Aston Villa review podcast.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/in-bed-with-maradona/2016/feb/25/aston-villa-relegation-premier-league-championship
Decent article, sums everything up nicely but nothing we haven't heard before... Apologies if posted elsewhere.Nails it for me too.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/in-bed-with-maradona/2016/feb/25/aston-villa-relegation-premier-league-championship
Decent article, sums everything up nicely but nothing we haven't heard before... Apologies if posted elsewhere.The author is a Villa fan. He does the Aston Villa review podcast.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/in-bed-with-maradona/2016/feb/25/aston-villa-relegation-premier-league-championship
Decent article, sums everything up nicely but nothing we haven't heard before... Apologies if posted elsewhere.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/in-bed-with-maradona/2016/feb/25/aston-villa-relegation-premier-league-championship
Excellent article
I have to say that article deserves a round of applause. That is the first time I have ever seen anyone bother to investigate the cause of the decline properly and thoroughly.
I have to say that article deserves a round of applause. That is the first time I have ever seen anyone bother to investigate the cause of the decline properly and thoroughly.
It's completely on the money, but I don't think that it really required much investigation.
I have to say that article deserves a round of applause. That is the first time I have ever seen anyone bother to investigate the cause of the decline properly and thoroughly.
It's completely on the money, but I don't think that it really required much investigation.
In fairness not many outsiders if he is an outsider report the MON years as good as that
I have to say that article deserves a round of applause. That is the first time I have ever seen anyone bother to investigate the cause of the decline properly and thoroughly.
It's completely on the money, but I don't think that it really required much investigation.
In fairness not many outsiders if he is an outsider report the MON years as good as that
He's not.
excellent article, nails tactics tim
Decent article, sums everything up nicely but nothing we haven't heard before... Apologies if posted elsewhere.Excellent record of our road to perdition.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/in-bed-with-maradona/2016/feb/25/aston-villa-relegation-premier-league-championship
He's a regular on VT who has his own podcast.
He's a regular on VT who has his own podcast.
And really knows his stuff when it comes to Villa and football in general.
...his notion Sherwood is worthless as a manager
Is anyone else finding themselves "where-did-it-go-wrong-articled-out"? By which I mean that they've read so many articles about where it went wrong for us, they're just numb to it all and can't face any more of them?
...his notion Sherwood is worthless as a manager
Like I say, he knows his stuff.
Is anyone else finding themselves "where-did-it-go-wrong-articled-out"? By which I mean that they've read so many articles about where it went wrong for us, they're just numb to it all and can't face any more of them?
Me neither.Is anyone else finding themselves "where-did-it-go-wrong-articled-out"? By which I mean that they've read so many articles about where it went wrong for us, they're just numb to it all and can't face any more of them?
Not really. Maybe its because I tend to not read much Villa stuff anyway at the moment as its never anything positive. That saying I'm struck more by the lack of much media interest other than those from Villa fans or the local media. Or, more to the point, the few that do pass comment usually get basic things wrong.I.E. Lerner should have backed O'Neill., Sherwood hampered by the transfer committee etc etc
Is anyone else finding themselves "where-did-it-go-wrong-articled-out"? By which I mean that they've read so many articles about where it went wrong for us, they're just numb to it all and can't face any more of them?
Fair assessment,It's been very obvious for a time. For all the twaddle he talks about being a custodian, his actions confirm he doesn't give a flying fuck. It's all about damage limitation for Randy now, getting back as much as he can before off loading pronto. Dark times ahead.
I don't think Randy actually thinks anything of AVFC , its just another mistake he made, and lets just sweep it under the carpet, with the browns.
Randy will pick himself up and loose more of his families money, we just want the back of him.
It does make you wonder (there's probably a separate thread for this), just how far we can fall if Lerner's neglect continues ad infinitum.
Will we reach a natural level based on our size as a club or continue falling and falling, perhaps out of the league altogether?
Fascinating and tragic in equal measure.
Good argument that Steve.
It does make you wonder (there's probably a separate thread for this), just how far we can fall if Lerner's neglect continues ad infinitum.
Will we reach a natural level based on our size as a club or continue falling and falling, perhaps out of the league altogether?
Fascinating and tragic in equal measure.
It does make you wonder (there's probably a separate thread for this), just how far we can fall if Lerner's neglect continues ad infinitum.
Will we reach a natural level based on our size as a club or continue falling and falling, perhaps out of the league altogether?
Fascinating and tragic in equal measure.
Are you for fucking real?
It does make you wonder (there's probably a separate thread for this), just how far we can fall if Lerner's neglect continues ad infinitum.
Will we reach a natural level based on our size as a club or continue falling and falling, perhaps out of the league altogether?
Fascinating and tragic in equal measure.
Are you for fucking real?
He was only asking a question, why so aggressive?
And you can bring ya Fkin dinner with ya.It does make you wonder (there's probably a separate thread for this), just how far we can fall if Lerner's neglect continues ad infinitum.
Will we reach a natural level based on our size as a club or continue falling and falling, perhaps out of the league altogether?
Fascinating and tragic in equal measure.
Are you for fucking real?
He was only asking a question, why so aggressive?
Did you spill my pint? Outside. Now.
I see one of the major shareholders in Arsenal, who is worth over £1bn, has sold up amidst rumours he is looking to buy a premier league club.
I see one of the major shareholders in Arsenal, who is worth over £1bn, has sold up amidst rumours he is looking to buy a premier league club.
He's Randy rich, not Man City rich.Randy rich and having a clue what he's doing would be more than enough to get back into top 8.
Ask Portsmouth fans about how far it is possible to drop after an FA cup final appearance..........It does make you wonder (there's probably a separate thread for this), just how far we can fall if Lerner's neglect continues ad infinitum.
Will we reach a natural level based on our size as a club or continue falling and falling, perhaps out of the league altogether?
Fascinating and tragic in equal measure.
Are you for fucking real?
I see one of the major shareholders in Arsenal, who is worth over £1bn, has sold up amidst rumours he is looking to buy a premier league club.
You got a source femdom?
I doubt we are going to have 2 or 3 dodgy owners leading us to going into administration twice, which is why they dropped like a stone.Well, we've got a dodgy owner now. If someone offers the required asking price, I doubt if Randy will be too arsed as to whether they are dodgy or not.
When Mr Lerner sells The Villa, i wonder if he will buy another sports club ?
In what way is Lerner dodgy? He's a poor owner, but he's not crook. We're nothing like Portsmouth or their desperate financial situation, but then I expect those being so.incredulous as to countenance dropping out the football league know that.
Why a Noses wet dream is being posted without a hint of irony and wasting bandwidth, I have no idea.
I doubt we are going to have 2 or 3 dodgy owners leading us to going into administration twice, which is why they dropped like a stone.
In what way is Lerner dodgy? He's a poor owner, but he's not crook. We're nothing like Portsmouth or their desperate financial situation, but then I expect those being so.incredulous as to countenance dropping out the football league know that.
Why a Noses wet dream is being posted without a hint of irony and wasting bandwidth, I have no idea.
I didn't say he was a crook, I said he was dodgy.
"In what way is Lerner dodgy?" You ask.
I'm not going to waste bandwidth in answering that. It should be self-evident
In what way is Lerner dodgy? He's a poor owner, but he's not crook. We're nothing like Portsmouth or their desperate financial situation, but then I expect those being so.incredulous as to countenance dropping out the football league know that.
Why a Noses wet dream is being posted without a hint of irony and wasting bandwidth, I have no idea.
I didn't say he was a crook, I said he was dodgy.
"In what way is Lerner dodgy?" You ask.
I'm not going to waste bandwidth in answering that. It should be self-evident
You're conflating being shit with being underhand/dodgy.
Dodgy can be short of the required standard or lacking quality. I'd say that's Lerner wouldn't you? He's patently a gormless, out of his depth over privileged rich kid.In what way is Lerner dodgy? He's a poor owner, but he's not crook. We're nothing like Portsmouth or their desperate financial situation, but then I expect those being so.incredulous as to countenance dropping out the football league know that.
Why a Noses wet dream is being posted without a hint of irony and wasting bandwidth, I have no idea.
I didn't say he was a crook, I said he was dodgy.
"In what way is Lerner dodgy?" You ask.
I'm not going to waste bandwidth in answering that. It should be self-evident
You're conflating being shit with being underhand/dodgy.
Dodgy can mean potentially dangerous or poor quality too. Lerner fits the bill with both of those. It doesn't have to mean underhanded or a crook.
He's not a dodgy Gaydamak, buying player on the never never, and leaving the club in administration and unable to pay players, which was the pointless comparison made in an attempt to justify the most idiotic post made on this site in some years.
I see one of the major shareholders in Arsenal, who is worth over £1bn, has sold up amidst rumours he is looking to buy a premier league club.
He's not a dodgy Gaydamak, buying player on the never never, and leaving the club in administration and unable to pay players, which was the pointless comparison made in an attempt to justify the most idiotic post made on this site in some years.
Of course he isn't. Lerner is a rubbish owner, but I don't think he's anywhere near Gaydamak territory.
I think Lerner's worst shortcoming is that he does not know how to dodge. He walks straight into situations that need to be avoided. The curse of the naive and the know all. He reminds me of the man I once saw walk up the Edgware Rd through the barriers into a foot of freshly poured concrete. The look on his face as he looked down to his shins in concrete said " how did this happen?"
IMO Yeung is a dodgy owner. Lerner is just a crap owner.
IMO Yeung is a dodgy owner. Lerner is just a crap owner.
Yeung is a criminally bent owner. How he past the ownership test one will never know.
Just have a horrible feeling and obviously when the accounts are published, it may show me to be very wrong, but I think we are in more financial trouble than we think, does anyone know how Randy's other business interests are doing.
Would it have been possible for Lerner to re-transfer the money he loaned us and changed into something(what ever it was called, but basically he did not take the money out), into raising loans against Villa to then pay himself the dough he is owed and if so would we have heard anything about it.
Maybe someone in the accounts world like Risso may be able to answer.
In for me, in for me , they've all got it in for me, I know the above sounds like that, but there is something that is very very wrong at Villa Park at the moment, big time.
Lerners a dodgy owner. Not fit for purpose. Like using a noodle as a hammer.
DodgyDishonesty takes many forms, it's nuanced and there are many shades of grey.
dishonest or unreliable.
Not dishonest, he hasn't outright lied to us. Unreliable, yes I think we can say that.
potentially dangerous.
Yep, he fits that bill. He's negligent.
of low quality
Definitely covers Lerners leadership
He ticks nearly all the boxes, he's a right dodgy owner.
DodgyDishonesty takes many forms, it's nuanced and there are many shades of grey.
dishonest or unreliable.
Not dishonest, he hasn't outright lied to us. Unreliable, yes I think we can say that.
potentially dangerous.
Yep, he fits that bill. He's negligent.
of low quality
Definitely covers Lerners leadership
He ticks nearly all the boxes, he's a right dodgy owner.
Consider the proud history, and custodian guff he's spouted at various times, his actions have been utterly contrary to his words. He's doesn't get off Scott free on the honesty point for me.
We'd be better off arguing about the meaning of semantics.You're not wrong there.
I'd call the likes of Carson Yeung dodgy personally.
DodgyDishonesty takes many forms, it's nuanced and there are many shades of grey.
dishonest or unreliable.
Not dishonest, he hasn't outright lied to us. Unreliable, yes I think we can say that.
potentially dangerous.
Yep, he fits that bill. He's negligent.
of low quality
Definitely covers Lerners leadership
He ticks nearly all the boxes, he's a right dodgy owner.
Consider the proud history, and custodian guff he's spouted at various times, his actions have been utterly contrary to his words. He's doesn't get off Scott free on the honesty point for me.
Spot on. God knows why people are getting hung up on a single word. Tell you what though, he feels bloody dodgy to me.
DodgyDishonesty takes many forms, it's nuanced and there are many shades of grey.
dishonest or unreliable.
Not dishonest, he hasn't outright lied to us. Unreliable, yes I think we can say that.
potentially dangerous.
Yep, he fits that bill. He's negligent.
of low quality
Definitely covers Lerners leadership
He ticks nearly all the boxes, he's a right dodgy owner.
Consider the proud history, and custodian guff he's spouted at various times, his actions have been utterly contrary to his words. He's doesn't get off Scott free on the honesty point for me.
Spot on. God knows why people are getting hung up on a single word. Tell you what though, he feels bloody dodgy to me.
That's easy for you to say, you paedophile.
It's only "a single word".
He's not crooked. He is however, incapable and that makes him dodgy in my book.I'd call the likes of Carson Yeung dodgy personally.
Exactly.
Lerner is clueless in the extreme, but by the usual usage of the word when used about football club owners, 'dodgy' is very unfair.
Blundering fool, yes, but up there with Yeung Shinawatra or Cellini? No.
He's not crooked. He is however incapable and that makes him dodgy in my book.I'd call the likes of Carson Yeung dodgy personally.
Exactly.
Lerner is clueless in the extreme, but by the usual usage of the word when used about football club owners, 'dodgy' is very unfair.
Blundering fool, yes, but up there with Yeung Shinawatra or Cellini? No.
He's not crooked. He is however incapable and that makes him dodgy in my book.I'd call the likes of Carson Yeung dodgy personally.
Exactly.
Lerner is clueless in the extreme, but by the usual usage of the word when used about football club owners, 'dodgy' is very unfair.
Blundering fool, yes, but up there with Yeung Shinawatra or Cellini? No.
Incapable and dodgy mean two different things though.
We'd be better off arguing about the meaning of semantics.
and the management fee charged by RAL
5 fucking years notice you have had Mr Lerner.... FIVE years .... for you to get it right and you have still fucked it up. How could you do that .....Getting it right would have been fucking fabulous, but frankly I'd have been delighted with an occasional display of adequacy..
and the management fee charged by RALWhat management?
and the management fee charged by RALWhat management?
I may be wrong on this but I believe we get charged £7m a year or thereabouts for management expertise.
I think you will find he then capitalised management charges, he is £200+ down based on purchase price and subsequent loans/investments.and the management fee charged by RALWhat management?
I may be wrong on this but I believe we get charged £7m a year or thereabouts for management expertise.
That's as maybe, but its mainly down to boneheaded decisions compounded by fuckwittery on a biblical a scale. I'd sympathise with him, but he happens to be destroying my football club with his monumental idiocy. Personally I wish he'd fuck off tomorrow and if it costs him even more to do so - good!I think you will find he then capitalised management charges, he is £200+ down based on purchase price and subsequent loans/investments.and the management fee charged by RALWhat management?
I may be wrong on this but I believe we get charged £7m a year or thereabouts for management expertise.
I'm expecting another loss. We're running a surplus on player trading, but prize money will be static, then there is interest on loans from RAL and the management fee charged by RAL, will Sherwood's and Lambert 's pay offs show in this years accounts?
After the conversion of loans to equity, what does the club still owe RAL? isn't it over a £100m?I'm expecting another loss. We're running a surplus on player trading, but prize money will be static, then there is interest on loans from RAL and the management fee charged by RAL, will Sherwood's and Lambert 's pay offs show in this years accounts?
All of which have been waived apart from the first (maybe 2?) years.
After the conversion of loans to equity, what does the club still owe RAL? isn't it over a £100m?I'm expecting another loss. We're running a surplus on player trading, but prize money will be static, then there is interest on loans from RAL and the management fee charged by RAL, will Sherwood's and Lambert 's pay offs show in this years accounts?
All of which have been waived apart from the first (maybe 2?) years.
So, if I read the situation correctly if Randy sells he can either sell the club and the new owners take on the debt or he includes the debt in the asking price. Either is quite unpalatable, in scenario a, we get sold at a reduced price and the new owners have to service the debt or in scenario b the asking price is so high for a championship club there will be no takers. A opens the door to all manner of chancers and in B we're stuck with the schmuck. All of which is as enticing as a dog shit sandwich. What a fucking mess.After the conversion of loans to equity, what does the club still owe RAL? isn't it over a £100m?I'm expecting another loss. We're running a surplus on player trading, but prize money will be static, then there is interest on loans from RAL and the management fee charged by RAL, will Sherwood's and Lambert 's pay offs show in this years accounts?
All of which have been waived apart from the first (maybe 2?) years.
It's around the £100M mark from memory.
But that's irrelevant for paying interest if he's waiving it as he has done the past 6-7 years.
So, if I read the situation correctly if Randy sells he can either sell the club and the new owners take on the debt or he includes the debt in the asking price. Either is quite unpalatable in scenario a, we get sold at a reduced price and the new owners have to service the debt or in scenario b the asking price is so high for a championship club there will be no takers. A opens the door to all manner of chancers and in B we're stuck with the schmuck. All of which is as palatable as a dog shit sandwich. What a fucking mess.After the conversion of loans to equity, what does the club still owe RAL? isn't it over a £100m?I'm expecting another loss. We're running a surplus on player trading, but prize money will be static, then there is interest on loans from RAL and the management fee charged by RAL, will Sherwood's and Lambert 's pay offs show in this years accounts?
All of which have been waived apart from the first (maybe 2?) years.
It's around the £100M mark from memory.
But that's irrelevant for paying interest if he's waiving it as he has done the past 6-7 years.
So, if I read the situation correctly if Randy sells he can either sell the club and the new owners take on the debt or he includes the debt in the asking price. Either is quite unpalatable in scenario a, we get sold at a reduced price and the new owners have to service the debt or in scenario b the asking price is so high for a championship club there will be no takers. A opens the door to all manner of chancers and in B we're stuck with the schmuck. All of which is as palatable as a dog shit sandwich. What a fucking mess.After the conversion of loans to equity, what does the club still owe RAL? isn't it over a £100m?I'm expecting another loss. We're running a surplus on player trading, but prize money will be static, then there is interest on loans from RAL and the management fee charged by RAL, will Sherwood's and Lambert 's pay offs show in this years accounts?
All of which have been waived apart from the first (maybe 2?) years.
It's around the £100M mark from memory.
But that's irrelevant for paying interest if he's waiving it as he has done the past 6-7 years.
Or given that he's written down the debt continuously over the last 3 years he writes the debt off.
We'd be better off arguing about the meaning of semantics.
Isn't it indubitably the same thing?We'd be better off arguing about the meaning of semantics.
Don't be ridiculous. It's clearly the semantics of meaning.
RL ain't that bad a bloke really, I'm one of a few who can't see why he's solely to blame for the mess we're in.
He invested lots into this club for a number of years, it's not his fault that most of our better players always want to move on, it's natural progression for players.
The players have a lot to answer to.
RL ain't that bad a bloke really, I'm one of a few who can't see why he's solely to blame for the mess we're in.
He invested lots into this club for a number of years, it's not his fault that most of our better players always want to move on, it's natural progression for players.
The players have a lot to answer to.
ExlDawg, while your summary is pretty much spot on, someone has to take the blame for allowing O'Neill to overspend so massively on over-priced/overpaid players he never used, to the point where the policy got us into severe financial difficulties. The buck stops at the top, does it not?Yes.
ExlDawg, while your summary is pretty much spot on, someone has to take the blame for allowing O'Neill to overspend so massively on over-priced/overpaid players he never used, to the point where the policy got us into severe financial difficulties. The buck stops at the top, does it not?
ExlDawg, while your summary is pretty much spot on, someone has to take the blame for allowing O'Neill to overspend so massively on over-priced/overpaid players he never used, to the point where the policy got us into severe financial difficulties. The buck stops at the top, does it not?
But to that point, how would he know he wasn't going to play those players until after he already spent the money on them? I think that was the biggest point of contention, wasn't it? He was asking why he was paying so much for guys like N'Zogbia to sit on the bench and that if he wasn't going to use them, he needed to sell them. So MON up and quit.
ExlDawg, while your summary is pretty much spot on, someone has to take the blame for allowing O'Neill to overspend so massively on over-priced/overpaid players he never used, to the point where the policy got us into severe financial difficulties. The buck stops at the top, does it not?Yes.
Any manager given Carte Blanche is going to make the most of it, regardless of whether they'll use the dosh wisely (which O Neill didn't entirely do). That said O Neill will doubtless counter that for the money we didn't recoup on half his signings, we made a lot on Young, Downing and Milner.
MON didn't sign N'Zogbia.
Who?
If MON spent all the money, how do you explain Darren Bent, Makoun, N'zogbia, Given being given massive contracts and left for bugger all.
There has been investment, it's just been given to shit managers and we've had no backroom nous. He is ultimately to blame for not putting a structure in place to protect his investment. I take on board the argument that MON wouldn't allow it when he was here, but not setting one up when he left is the root of all the issues since
ExlDawg, while your summary is pretty much spot on, someone has to take the blame for allowing O'Neill to overspend so massively on over-priced/overpaid players he never used, to the point where the policy got us into severe financial difficulties. The buck stops at the top, does it not?Yes.
Any manager given Carte Blanche is going to make the most of it, regardless of whether they'll use the dosh wisely (which O Neill didn't entirely do). That said O Neill will doubtless counter that for the money we didn't recoup on half his signings, we made a lot on Young, Downing and Milner.
Doesn't quite make up for the tens of millions he wasted on all the other useless fuckers he bought and hardly ever played though does it?
But before 2010, nobody had any problem with him. I just don't know what obvious thing he could of done that would of dramatically turned things around for the club. We still had to unload tons of salary and some top manager wasn't going to take on that task.
I was thinking about Randy Lerner yesterday and was trying to give him the benefit of doubt, but seriously can anyone come up with any decisions that have been made in his time as custodian that have actually benefitted the footballing aspect of the club in the long term? I'm struggling.
Yes, there was the Acorns deal, but that didn't directly influence the playing side. I can only come up with two. The investment at Bodymoor Heath was welcome, but looks like it hasn't been utilised properly, and the signing of Darren Bent saved us from relegation but that in itself was a double edged sword because we were then lumbered with his sky high wages for four seasons.
Every other decision has been an unmitigated disaster: O'Neill, Houllier, TSM 1, TSM 2 and his extended contract, Sherwood and Fox.
Someone must be able to come up with something that has been done that has benefitted us in the long term.
Randy Lerner: total disaster.
The Idea that there was not much he could do after the MON flounce is far fetched.
He could have got somebody that knew the English Game to advise him.
He could have Hired any body but Mcleish. He could have got rid of Lambert when it was obvious the wheels had come off instead of handing him a new contract. He could have taken a bit more interest in what was happening at the Club.
The list of could have should have is endless.
I was thinking about Randy Lerner yesterday and was trying to give him the benefit of doubt, but seriously can anyone come up with any decisions that have been made in his time as custodian that have actually benefitted the footballing aspect of the club in the long term? I'm struggling.
Yes, there was the Acorns deal, but that didn't directly influence the playing side. I can only come up with two. The investment at Bodymoor Heath was welcome, but looks like it hasn't been utilised properly, and the signing of Darren Bent saved us from relegation but that in itself was a double edged sword because we were then lumbered with his sky high wages for four seasons.
Every other decision has been an unmitigated disaster: O'Neill, Houllier, TSM 1, TSM 2 and his extended contract, Sherwood and Fox.
Someone must be able to come up with something that has been done that has benefitted us in the long term.
Randy Lerner: total disaster.
He probably sanctioned the purchases of Ashley Young, Milner and Delph.
I was thinking about Randy Lerner yesterday and was trying to give him the benefit of doubt, but seriously can anyone come up with any decisions that have been made in his time as custodian that have actually benefitted the footballing aspect of the club in the long term? I'm struggling.
Yes, there was the Acorns deal, but that didn't directly influence the playing side. I can only come up with two. The investment at Bodymoor Heath was welcome, but looks like it hasn't been utilised properly, and the signing of Darren Bent saved us from relegation but that in itself was a double edged sword because we were then lumbered with his sky high wages for four seasons.
Every other decision has been an unmitigated disaster: O'Neill, Houllier, TSM 1, TSM 2 and his extended contract, Sherwood and Fox.
Someone must be able to come up with something that has been done that has benefitted us in the long term.
Randy Lerner: total disaster.
He probably sanctioned the purchases of Ashley Young, Milner and Delph.
But allowed them to walk away for less than they were worth to teams we used to compete with. Each was a signal that we were giving up any hope of of staying within touching distance of the top teams. A clear message that we were in (hopefully not terminal) decline.
I was thinking about Randy Lerner yesterday and was trying to give him the benefit of doubt, but seriously can anyone come up with any decisions that have been made in his time as custodian that have actually benefitted the footballing aspect of the club in the long term? I'm struggling.
Yes, there was the Acorns deal, but that didn't directly influence the playing side. I can only come up with two. The investment at Bodymoor Heath was welcome, but looks like it hasn't been utilised properly, and the signing of Darren Bent saved us from relegation but that in itself was a double edged sword because we were then lumbered with his sky high wages for four seasons.
Every other decision has been an unmitigated disaster: O'Neill, Houllier, TSM 1, TSM 2 and his extended contract, Sherwood and Fox.
Someone must be able to come up with something that has been done that has benefitted us in the long term.
Randy Lerner: total disaster.
He probably sanctioned the purchases of Ashley Young, Milner and Delph.
But allowed them to walk away for less than they were worth to teams we used to compete with. Each was a signal that we were giving up any hope of of staying within touching distance of the top teams. A clear message that we were in (hopefully not terminal) decline.
I was thinking about Randy Lerner yesterday and was trying to give him the benefit of doubt, but seriously can anyone come up with any decisions that have been made in his time as custodian that have actually benefitted the footballing aspect of the club in the long term? I'm struggling.
Yes, there was the Acorns deal, but that didn't directly influence the playing side. I can only come up with two. The investment at Bodymoor Heath was welcome, but looks like it hasn't been utilised properly, and the signing of Darren Bent saved us from relegation but that in itself was a double edged sword because we were then lumbered with his sky high wages for four seasons.
Every other decision has been an unmitigated disaster: O'Neill, Houllier, TSM 1, TSM 2 and his extended contract, Sherwood and Fox.
Someone must be able to come up with something that has been done that has benefitted us in the long term.
Randy Lerner: total disaster.
He probably sanctioned the purchases of Ashley Young, Milner and Delph.
But allowed them to walk away for less than they were worth to teams we used to compete with. Each was a signal that we were giving up any hope of of staying within touching distance of the top teams. A clear message that we were in (hopefully not terminal) decline.
I was thinking about Randy Lerner yesterday and was trying to give him the benefit of doubt, but seriously can anyone come up with any decisions that have been made in his time as custodian that have actually benefitted the footballing aspect of the club in the long term? I'm struggling.
Yes, there was the Acorns deal, but that didn't directly influence the playing side. I can only come up with two. The investment at Bodymoor Heath was welcome, but looks like it hasn't been utilised properly, and the signing of Darren Bent saved us from relegation but that in itself was a double edged sword because we were then lumbered with his sky high wages for four seasons.
Every other decision has been an unmitigated disaster: O'Neill, Houllier, TSM 1, TSM 2 and his extended contract, Sherwood and Fox.
Someone must be able to come up with something that has been done that has benefitted us in the long term.
Randy Lerner: total disaster.
He probably sanctioned the purchases of Ashley Young, Milner and Delph.
But allowed them to walk away for less than they were worth to teams we used to compete with. Each was a signal that we were giving up any hope of of staying within touching distance of the top teams. A clear message that we were in (hopefully not terminal) decline.
You can't say that Young and Milner were undervalued when they were sold. Both were good deals: it was how the money was spent that was the problem.
Equally, it's unfair to say we were kept in the dark during the O'Neill years. If anything the club's hierarchy were too approachable. Regardless of what came afterwards it would be totally wrong to say that those first five years were a catalogue of errors when they quite clearly weren't.
The problem I have with your posts is the assumption he just got unlucky because he listened to the wrong people. I'd suggest he is the chief protagonist in our downfall because he just got bored of the club. I don't go with all this "bad advice" tripe, and you're always going to attract crap managers when their only remit is to lower the wage bill on an annual basis.
The problem I have with your posts is the assumption he just got unlucky because he listened to the wrong people. I'd suggest he is the chief protagonist in our downfall because he just got bored of the club. I don't go with all this "bad advice" tripe, and you're always going to attract crap managers when their only remit is to lower the wage bill on an annual basis.
And the problem I have your posts is that you seen certain that he's done this deliberately. I notice that you can't raise a single cogent point to specifically answer just one of Dave's.
He's done it deliberately? That means he's thrown away £250 million, just to piss of a hundred thousand Villa fans? Really? You honestly believe that?
The "just got bored with it" gives the same answer. He's chucked £250M away because he can't be arsed?
Or alternatively he's just someone who's inordinately shit at running a sports club.
Either he's been badly advised or he's been too cocksure to seek advice. The appointment of Hollis was the final act of relinquinshing any form of involvement. Something he should have done from day 1.
The problem I have with your posts is the assumption he just got unlucky because he listened to the wrong people. I'd suggest he is the chief protagonist in our downfall because he just got bored of the club. I don't go with all this "bad advice" tripe, and you're always going to attract crap managers when their only remit is to lower the wage bill on an annual basis.
And the problem I have your posts is that you seen certain that he's done this deliberately. I notice that you can't raise a single cogent point to specifically answer just one of Dave's.
He's done it deliberately? That means he's thrown away £250 million, just to piss of a hundred thousand Villa fans? Really? You honestly believe that?
The "just got bored with it" gives the same answer. He's chucked £250M away because he can't be arsed?
Or alternatively he's just someone who's inordinately shit at running a sports club.
Either he's been badly advised or he's been too cocksure to seek advice. The appointment of Hollis was the final act of relinquinshing any form of involvement. Something he should have done from day 1.
I think that is somewhere nearer the truth though. Either that or he realised just how muchmoney it was going to take to get us competing for trophies and a Champions League place and decided against it.in the hole he was and shat himself.
As mentioned above, it is all in the past now though and continually going over it is pretty futile. All it now serves as is an example of how to not run a top flight football club.
I think the Martin O'Neill years were when the termites got into the basement. What we are witnessing now is the inevitable consequence of getting the foundations wrong.True, we're one of a number of clubs who have suffered because wealthy owners have come in thinking they know something about the game they're investing in. Man City's Dubai owners inherited Brian Marwood from the Thai era and then added more football brains at executive level (the two guys from Barcelona) and entrusted these people with the footballing decisions.
I think the Martin O'Neill years were when the termites got into the basement. What we are witnessing now is the inevitable consequence of getting the foundations wrong.True, we're one of a number of clubs who have suffered because wealthy owners have come in thinking they know something about the game they're investing in. Man City's Dubai owners inherited Brian Marwood from the Thai era and then added more football brains at executive level (the two guys from Barcelona) and entrusted these people with the footballing decisions.
Randy has blown a fortune by making the wrong choices and then not spotting the signs of termite infestation.
I suppose the exception that proves that rule is Kenwright. He has strained his relatively modest fortune to the limit for Everton and looks like reaping the deserved benefit. Perhaps being an impresario he is a natural steel balled risk taker. Naive he ain't.
Everton have been strange throughout his time - permanently pleading poverty yet always able to afford top-line players.
...whether that's Bent keeping us up or the other two (plus Milner, Downing, etc) producing healthy profits on sale.I'd have said Milner staying would have been worth more to us than any transfer fee. Especially when you consider that fee included Stephen fucking Ireland. We rolled over on that occasion, in stark contrast to when we dug our heals in over Barry and told Liverpool to fuck off.
...whether that's Bent keeping us up or the other two (plus Milner, Downing, etc) producing healthy profits on sale.I'd have said Milner staying would have been worth more to us than any transfer fee. Especially when you consider that fee included Stephen fucking Ireland. We rolled over on that occasion, in stark contrast to when we dug our heals in over Barry and told Liverpool to fuck off.
If you're going to argue the point about players being worth more had we dug our heels in, the only one to argue is Benteke. He might just have kept us up this year. If he had, the financial benefit would have dwarfed the transfer fee we got for him.My point wasn't so much about players being worth more, but rather that holding on to a player shows that we have the intent to build something. When we told Liverpool where to go regarding Gareth Barry it felt great, and it gave hope that we could improve. Remember that Barry definitely wanted to go at the time (remember his "It's been decided that I'm staying quote" when it was clear he'd be staying for a season?) whereas, and I could be wrong, with Milner I don't remember his wishes being so cut-and-dried.
Everton have been strange throughout his time - permanently pleading poverty yet always able to afford top-line players.
...whether that's Bent keeping us up or the other two (plus Milner, Downing, etc) producing healthy profits on sale.I'd have said Milner staying would have been worth more to us than any transfer fee. Especially when you consider that fee included Stephen fucking Ireland. We rolled over on that occasion, in stark contrast to when we dug our heals in over Barry and told Liverpool to fuck off.
Milner didn't want to stay though so we ran the risk of holding on to him and losing him at the end of his contract for nothing. A reported fee of £28m (acknowledging the point that Ireland ended up being nigh on useless) was bloody good value for us, especially as we didn't get relegated as a result of selling him and wouldn't have increased our revenue had we kept him.
If you're going to argue the point about players being worth more had we dug our heels in, the only one to argue is Benteke. He might just have kept us up this year. If he had, the financial benefit would have dwarfed the transfer fee we got for him.
Everton have been strange throughout his time - permanently pleading poverty yet always able to afford top-line players.
Moyes must have some credit for that, despite the naysayers. Can't be a coincidence that a club with similar resource levels but the comparative stability of having had a good manage in charge for many years is now light years ahead of us.
Nobody, but nobody, should have sanctioned that transfer involving Steven Ireland when we didn't have a manager. One of the most ludicrous transfers in recent years. If Milner were to be sold they should simply have insisted on cash. Eejits.I'm a bit unclear on the timeline, but didn't Ireland arrive the day after O'Neill had flounced out? Presumably with the deal having been worked out already.
And yet at the time a lot on here were delighted with the transfer, saying we'd done one of the greatest deals of all time and absolutely mugged City, and Ireland was going to be a brilliant signing. Hardly anyone was saying it was crazy to complete the deal with no manager.Yes that's pretty much how I remember it, maybe not quite so much enthusiasm but certainly a general feeling we'd done alright. If we hadn't signed Ireland as we had no manager I'm sure a lot of people would have seen it as a wasted opportunity and and excuse.
And yet at the time a lot on here were delighted with the transfer, saying we'd done one of the greatest deals of all time and absolutely mugged City, and Ireland was going to be a brilliant signing. Hardly anyone was saying it was crazy to complete the deal with no manager.Yes that's pretty much how I remember it, maybe not quite so much enthusiasm but certainly a general feeling we'd done alright. If we hadn't signed Ireland as we had no manager I'm sure a lot of people would have seen it as a wasted opportunity and and excuse.
...whether that's Bent keeping us up or the other two (plus Milner, Downing, etc) producing healthy profits on sale.I'd have said Milner staying would have been worth more to us than any transfer fee. Especially when you consider that fee included Stephen fucking Ireland. We rolled over on that occasion, in stark contrast to when we dug our heals in over Barry and told Liverpool to fuck off.
Milner didn't want to stay though so we ran the risk of holding on to him and losing him at the end of his contract for nothing. A reported fee of £28m (acknowledging the point that Ireland ended up being nigh on useless) was bloody good value for us, especially as we didn't get relegated as a result of selling him and wouldn't have increased our revenue had we kept him.
If you're going to argue the point about players being worth more had we dug our heels in, the only one to argue is Benteke. He might just have kept us up this year. If he had, the financial benefit would have dwarfed the transfer fee we got for him.
Nobody, but nobody, should have sanctioned that transfer involving Steven Ireland when we didn't have a manager. One of the most ludicrous transfers in recent years. If Milner were to be sold they should simply have insisted on cash. Eejits.
Absolutely spot on. No manager at the club and we go and sell one of our best players and replace him with some nut-case one season wonder. Who sanctioned it? It should never have happened, and I said it at the time as well.
Sorry, did you say our "transfer committee" has done well?
Sorry, did you say our "transfer committee" has done well?
I said our transfer dealings during Randy's tenure has been one of the few areas I think we've performed better than the norm. Ireland is thankfully a notable exception but as others have said, at the time he wasn't the well known basket case he is now.
Sorry, did you say our "transfer committee" has done well?
I said our transfer dealings during Randy's tenure has been one of the few areas I think we've performed better than the norm. Ireland is thankfully a notable exception but as others have said, at the time he wasn't the well known basket case he is now.
I'm not sure about that. Under Lerner there's been quite a list of players bought that didn't need to be. O'Neil bought a lot of players but generally picked the same team. Then there's Lambert's young and hungry lot, and all 13 of last summers signings. A lot of these players we didn't make any money on at all.
Stephen Ireland a one season wonder? Must have missed that season. I know he won player of the year but wasn't that the McLeish one when essentially everyone had been shit?
Stephen Ireland a one season wonder? Must have missed that season. I know he won player of the year but wasn't that the McLeish one when essentially everyone had been shit?
Probably the one when he won young player of the year and persuaded us to waste all that money on him.
Absolutely spot on. No manager at the club and we go and sell one of our best players and replace him with some nut-case one season wonder. Who sanctioned it? It should never have happened, and I said it at the time as well.
There have been many more expensive flops when you add in the wages factor:
Curtis Davis, Stephen Warnock, Marlon Harewood, Carlos Cuellar, Libor Kozak, Jean II Makoun, Shay Given, Emile Heskey, Rudy Gestede, Traore. All have cost £6m+, or earned a fortune in wages over their contract, or both. None provided anything like value for money, or likely will do.
Sorry, did you say our "transfer committee" has done well?
I said our transfer dealings during Randy's tenure has been one of the few areas I think we've performed better than the norm. Ireland is thankfully a notable exception but as others have said, at the time he wasn't the well known basket case he is now.
I wonder if, in his ten years of shit appointments, it has ever occurred to Randy to appoint someone who has previously had a job running a football club.
What manager worth his salt would take on Aston Villa with our lousy wage/transfer budget?
This is the reason we've been scraping the bottom of the barrel for the last 6 seasons.
What manager worth his salt would take on Aston Villa with our lousy wage/transfer budget?
This is the reason we've been scraping the bottom of the barrel for the last 6 seasons.
Our spend throughout that period has been superior to many many teams in this division. The money is an issue in how it was spent and the recruitment policy degrading from inconsistent to rubbish. That dates back to Heskey in early 2009. Notably Saints have had changes in management and lost their better players and still managed to improve.
If you have waited until relatively recently to make your point re spend you would have had a point. Alas your binary perspective and apparent pathological hatred of Lerner coupled with a total inability to be able to state how we could magical spend against FFP rules renders your rants somewhat pitiful
What manager worth his salt would take on Aston Villa with our lousy wage/transfer budget?
This is the reason we've been scraping the bottom of the barrel for the last 6 seasons.
Our spend throughout that period has been superior to many many teams in this division. The money is an issue in how it was spent and the recruitment policy degrading from inconsistent to rubbish. That dates back to Heskey in early 2009. Notably Saints have had changes in management and lost their better players and still managed to improve.
If you have waited until relatively recently to make your point re spend you would have had a point. Alas your binary perspective and apparent pathological hatred of Lerner coupled with a total inability to be able to state how we could magical spend against FFP rules renders your rants somewhat pitiful
At the end of every season the remit seems to be to reduce the wage yet again despite the club getting closer to relegation with every season that passes. If you don't think that's a problem then who am I to argue?
And fuck Lerner, you're right, I hate the prick.
What manager worth his salt would take on Aston Villa with our lousy wage/transfer budget?
This is the reason we've been scraping the bottom of the barrel for the last 6 seasons.
Our spend throughout that period has been superior to many many teams in this division. The money is an issue in how it was spent and the recruitment policy degrading from inconsistent to rubbish. That dates back to Heskey in early 2009. Notably Saints have had changes in management and lost their better players and still managed to improve.
If you have waited until relatively recently to make your point re spend you would have had a point. Alas your binary perspective and apparent pathological hatred of Lerner coupled with a total inability to be able to state how we could magical spend against FFP rules renders your rants somewhat pitiful
At the end of every season the remit seems to be to reduce the wage yet again despite the club getting closer to relegation with every season that passes. If you don't think that's a problem then who am I to argue?
And fuck Lerner, you're right, I hate the prick.
I'd seek some counselling then if I were you. You hatred is borderline OCD.
What manager worth his salt would take on Aston Villa with our lousy wage/transfer budget?
This is the reason we've been scraping the bottom of the barrel for the last 6 seasons.
Our spend throughout that period has been superior to many many teams in this division. The money is an issue in how it was spent and the recruitment policy degrading from inconsistent to rubbish. That dates back to Heskey in early 2009. Notably Saints have had changes in management and lost their better players and still managed to improve.
If you have waited until relatively recently to make your point re spend you would have had a point. Alas your binary perspective and apparent pathological hatred of Lerner coupled with a total inability to be able to state how we could magical spend against FFP rules renders your rants somewhat pitiful
At the end of every season the remit seems to be to reduce the wage yet again despite the club getting closer to relegation with every season that passes. If you don't think that's a problem then who am I to argue?
And fuck Lerner, you're right, I hate the prick.
I'd seek some counselling then if I were you. You hatred is borderline OCD.
Yawn.
I find your defence of Lerner even more boring. Go and bore somebody else.
I find your defence of Lerner even more boring. Go and bore somebody else.
I'll leave that to you. Can't beat the Expert Grandmaster at his own game. Ever. I dare say there are a few others on here who may be in support of my position if your previous exchanges, of which I have been privy to a subset, are anything to go by.
I find your defence of Lerner even more boring. Go and bore somebody else.
I'll leave that to you. Can't beat the Expert Grandmaster at his own game. Ever. I dare say there are a few others on here who may be in support of my position if your previous exchanges, of which I have been privy to a subset, are anything to go by.
Yes, goodbye.
Oh god, will you both stop it, please!
Sorry, did you say our "transfer committee" has done well?
I said our transfer dealings during Randy's tenure has been one of the few areas I think we've performed better than the norm. Ireland is thankfully a notable exception but as others have said, at the time he wasn't the well known basket case he is now.
I'm not sure about that. Under Lerner there's been quite a list of players bought that didn't need to be. O'Neil bought a lot of players but generally picked the same team. Then there's Lambert's young and hungry lot, and all 13 of last summers signings. A lot of these players we didn't make any money on at all.
Compare it to other clubs though. Every clubs has hits and misses in transfer dealings. Generally however our hits have been where we've spent decent money and our misses have been where we haven't spent very much. Ultimately the latter comes down to the old adage of you get what you pay for. I don't recall many expensive flops during Lerner's time (Ireland, NZog and Beye spring to mind but not many more) whereas Bent, Milner, Young, Downing, Benteke have all either saved us from relegation and/or produced tidy profits.
Sorry, did you say our "transfer committee" has done well?
I said our transfer dealings during Randy's tenure has been one of the few areas I think we've performed better than the norm. Ireland is thankfully a notable exception but as others have said, at the time he wasn't the well known basket case he is now.
I'm not sure about that. Under Lerner there's been quite a list of players bought that didn't need to be. O'Neil bought a lot of players but generally picked the same team. Then there's Lambert's young and hungry lot, and all 13 of last summers signings. A lot of these players we didn't make any money on at all.
Compare it to other clubs though. Every clubs has hits and misses in transfer dealings. Generally however our hits have been where we've spent decent money and our misses have been where we haven't spent very much. Ultimately the latter comes down to the old adage of you get what you pay for. I don't recall many expensive flops during Lerner's time (Ireland, NZog and Beye spring to mind but not many more) whereas Bent, Milner, Young, Downing, Benteke have all either saved us from relegation and/or produced tidy profits.
The bottom line is our transfer policy has us sitting twentieth in the table. It's clearly been badly thought-out and haphazard from the very start.
Fixed it.'Fun'sadist fact. We have more defeats than points this season.
If I were paying £50m for an overseas business in an industry I'd never worked in, with a view to investing significantly more, the first thing I would do would be to poach a top class CEO from a successful competitor, wit a track record of acieving what i wanted wit that investment. The fact that ten years later he still hasn't learnt that lesson frightens me. Or maybe he has, which should frighten us all.
6 fucking years notice you have had Mr Lerner.... FIVE years .... for you to get it right and you have still fucked it up. How could you do that .....
I posted on 28th December last that RL's Dassault Falcon 7X was on the market for USD36.95m.
A quick revisit to the sale site has revealed he has now dropped the asking price to USD29.95m:-
http://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=155824
I make that an 18.9% reduction in the asking price; Randy, for f**k sake make the same percentage reduction to your price for AVFC.
Complete unfounded speculation but why do I get the feeling that Garde has somehow gone to Hollis and said "them or me" regarding Fox and the other two? Off course Hollis might think clean sweep and dump Garde also, but it would be some upheaval. Not saying we don't need it. The presence of Fox just seems so poisonous and watching him last night gave the impression of a bloke who couldn't give a shit just waiting for a payoff.
At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
Still not sure how Fox is guilty of doing anything apart from following orders
The presence of Fox just seems so poisonous and watching him last night gave the impression of a bloke who couldn't give a shit just waiting for a payoff.
At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
Still not sure how Fox is guilty of doing anything apart from following orders
At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
Still not sure how Fox is guilty of doing anything apart from following orders
He sanctioned the burning of £50m this summer on the say-so of a couple of unqualified charlatans.
At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
Still not sure how Fox is guilty of doing anything apart from following orders
That didn't help anyone at Nüremburg (!)
At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
Still not sure how Fox is guilty of doing anything apart from following orders
At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
Still not sure how Fox is guilty of doing anything apart from following orders
You genuinely think the Chief Executive of a £100m business has absolutely no say in how things are done?
In other news, Leicester City post a £26m profit ...
I imagine he would have made suggestions/strategies to Lerner which were ok'd. As things have continued to spiral he has to go from that role. I have no problem with the gang of three going, I just hope and pray any new structure is better thought out and more appropriately staffed.At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
Still not sure how Fox is guilty of doing anything apart from following orders
You genuinely think the Chief Executive of a £100m business has absolutely no say in how things are done?
I believe he just did what Lerner okayed. Like Faulkner before him
At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
Still not sure how Fox is guilty of doing anything apart from following orders
You genuinely think the Chief Executive of a £100m business has absolutely no say in how things are done?
I believe he just did what Lerner okayed. Like Faulkner before him
If we were Marks and Spencer Fox would be prosecuted.
At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
Still not sure how Fox is guilty of doing anything apart from following orders
You genuinely think the Chief Executive of a £100m business has absolutely no say in how things are done?
I believe he just did what Lerner okayed. Like Faulkner before him
Wasn't it widely reported at the time that Fox had to convince Lerner to let him give Lambert the boot and bring in Sherwood?
At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
Still not sure how Fox is guilty of doing anything apart from following orders
You genuinely think the Chief Executive of a £100m business has absolutely no say in how things are done?
I believe he just did what Lerner okayed. Like Faulkner before him
Wasn't it widely reported at the time that Fox had to convince Lerner to let him give Lambert the boot and bring in Sherwood?
well i'm not sure that was a bad decision. The boot bit, but its clear Garde was Lerner's decison, as was TSM, as was Lambert, as was the rest, apart from MON
At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
Still not sure how Fox is guilty of doing anything apart from following orders
You genuinely think the Chief Executive of a £100m business has absolutely no say in how things are done?
I believe he just did what Lerner okayed. Like Faulkner before him
Wasn't it widely reported at the time that Fox had to convince Lerner to let him give Lambert the boot and bring in Sherwood?
well i'm not sure that was a bad decision. The boot bit, but its clear Garde was Lerner's decison, as was TSM, as was Lambert, as was the rest, apart from MON
Wasn't Lambert's contract extension Fox's idea based on a couple of wins at the start of the season? That was mind boggling.
If we were Marks and Spencer Fox would be prosecuted.
I'm not saying he's good at his job, or fit to run a newsagent but in the context of doing everything Lerner wanted, he's fullfilled his brief
If we were Marks and Spencer Fox would be prosecuted.
I'm not saying he's good at his job, or fit to run a newsagent but in the context of doing everything Lerner wanted, he's fullfilled his brief
I think keeping us in the PL would have headed this brief.
I don't. I don't think Lerner ever considered relegation when he employed him. He's American. We're spending millions more than other teams in that league even if we reduce our expenditure. How can team's with half our resources and wage bill finish above us with just decent managers and motivated players to fall back on? Impossible!
If we were Marks and Spencer Fox would be prosecuted.
I'm not saying he's good at his job, or fit to run a newsagent but in the context of doing everything Lerner wanted, he's fullfilled his brief
I think keeping us in the PL would have headed this brief.
I don't. I don't think Lerner ever considered relegation when he employed him. He's American. We're spending millions more than other teams in that league even if we reduce our expenditure. How can team's with half our resources and wage bill finish above us with just decent managers and motivated players to fall back on? Impossible!
If we were Marks and Spencer Fox would be prosecuted.
I'm not saying he's good at his job, or fit to run a newsagent but in the context of doing everything Lerner wanted, he's fullfilled his brief
I think keeping us in the PL would have headed this brief.
I don't. I don't think Lerner ever considered relegation when he employed him. He's American. We're spending millions more than other teams in that league even if we reduce our expenditure. How can team's with half our resources and wage bill finish above us with just decent managers and motivated players to fall back on? Impossible!
Dont be daft.
At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
Still not sure how Fox is guilty of doing anything apart from following orders
You genuinely think the Chief Executive of a £100m business has absolutely no say in how things are done?
I believe he just did what Lerner okayed. Like Faulkner before him
Wasn't it widely reported at the time that Fox had to convince Lerner to let him give Lambert the boot and bring in Sherwood?
well i'm not sure that was a bad decision. The boot bit, but its clear Garde was Lerner's decison, as was TSM, as was Lambert, as was the rest, apart from MON. Look at who's managed us, with the exception of Lambert it's been one wft? appointment after another. Houllier? I like him but it was leftfield. TSM - well we KNOW he was Lerner's baby. That summer of chasing OGS with private jets taking off on the hour - Lerner. Lambert, Lerner's 2nd choice but at least vaguely sane even if you were vaguely suspicious that he only got the gig because he looked like MON's retarded brother.. Sherwood, again a guy who you really didn't want managing at Villa based on his time at Spurs. Garde another WTF?. Our board just do Lerner's bidding and sacking a load of yesmen for more yes men like Hollis won't solve anything when the guy in charge is the problem
If we were Marks and Spencer Fox would be prosecuted.
I'm not saying he's good at his job, or fit to run a newsagent but in the context of doing everything Lerner wanted, he's fullfilled his brief
I think keeping us in the PL would have headed this brief.
I don't. I don't think Lerner ever considered relegation when he employed him. He's American. We're spending millions more than other teams in that league even if we reduce our expenditure. How can team's with half our resources and wage bill finish above us with just decent managers and motivated players to fall back on? Impossible!
Dont be daft.
you only have to see the buoyant bolllocks fox was coming out with not long ago to see they didn't have a clue. "We're building something special" - They certainly are. That's from december last year - now if he's that in denial then, what the fuck was he like when he joined us?
At the moment I wouldn't be against a clean sweep. Maybe we need it. Though I would keep Garde as long as he gets everything he wants to really turn the squad over and bring in his own team. Mind you you'd have to think Villa being in the Championship makes us far less attractive to the coaches he wanted to bring in. Either way Fox simply had to go.
Still not sure how Fox is guilty of doing anything apart from following orders
You genuinely think the Chief Executive of a £100m business has absolutely no say in how things are done?
I believe he just did what Lerner okayed. Like Faulkner before him
Wasn't it widely reported at the time that Fox had to convince Lerner to let him give Lambert the boot and bring in Sherwood?
well i'm not sure that was a bad decision. The boot bit, but its clear Garde was Lerner's decison, as was TSM, as was Lambert, as was the rest, apart from MON. Look at who's managed us, with the exception of Lambert it's been one wft? appointment after another. Houllier? I like him but it was leftfield. TSM - well we KNOW he was Lerner's baby. That summer of chasing OGS with private jets taking off on the hour - Lerner. Lambert, Lerner's 2nd choice but at least vaguely sane even if you were vaguely suspicious that he only got the gig because he looked like MON's retarded brother.. Sherwood, again a guy who you really didn't want managing at Villa based on his time at Spurs. Garde another WTF?. Our board just do Lerner's bidding and sacking a load of yesmen for more yes men like Hollis won't solve anything when the guy in charge is the problem
which is why I fear you might get your wish of a obvious media type appointment next season in Pearson/Pulis
no WTF appointment that would be, the pundits will say its just what we need, and we will be stuck with that for the forseable
I'd rather gamble again on a WTF shot
If we were Marks and Spencer Fox would be prosecuted.
I'm not saying he's good at his job, or fit to run a newsagent but in the context of doing everything Lerner wanted, he's fullfilled his brief
I think keeping us in the PL would have headed this brief.
I don't. I don't think Lerner ever considered relegation when he employed him. He's American. We're spending millions more than other teams in that league even if we reduce our expenditure. How can team's with half our resources and wage bill finish above us with just decent managers and motivated players to fall back on? Impossible!
Staying in the PL would have been the be all and end all until a sale was secured.
We'll have to agree to disagree.If we were Marks and Spencer Fox would be prosecuted.
I'm not saying he's good at his job, or fit to run a newsagent but in the context of doing everything Lerner wanted, he's fullfilled his brief
I think keeping us in the PL would have headed this brief.
I don't. I don't think Lerner ever considered relegation when he employed him. He's American. We're spending millions more than other teams in that league even if we reduce our expenditure. How can team's with half our resources and wage bill finish above us with just decent managers and motivated players to fall back on? Impossible!
Staying in the PL would have been the be all and end all until a sale was secured.
As i said, he's American. They don't understand they don't understand the whole concept of relegation.
Why don't US sports leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB, etc.) follow the "promotion/relegation" model used in Europe?
"The objectives and the competitive landscape of the leagues are vastly different. The Premier League, La Liga, Series A, and Bundesliga compete with each other. As a result, there is great incentive to build great teams that dominate Europe since strong teams bring more money into the league and more money makes a stronger league.
American leagues, the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL don't have competition. However, they still have the objective of making the most money"
We'll have to agree to disagree.If we were Marks and Spencer Fox would be prosecuted.
I'm not saying he's good at his job, or fit to run a newsagent but in the context of doing everything Lerner wanted, he's fullfilled his brief
I think keeping us in the PL would have headed this brief.
I don't. I don't think Lerner ever considered relegation when he employed him. He's American. We're spending millions more than other teams in that league even if we reduce our expenditure. How can team's with half our resources and wage bill finish above us with just decent managers and motivated players to fall back on? Impossible!
Staying in the PL would have been the be all and end all until a sale was secured.
As i said, he's American. They don't understand they don't understand the whole concept of relegation.
Why don't US sports leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB, etc.) follow the "promotion/relegation" model used in Europe?
"The objectives and the competitive landscape of the leagues are vastly different. The Premier League, La Liga, Series A, and Bundesliga compete with each other. As a result, there is great incentive to build great teams that dominate Europe since strong teams bring more money into the league and more money makes a stronger league.
American leagues, the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL don't have competition. However, they still have the objective of making the most money"
We'll have to agree to disagree.If we were Marks and Spencer Fox would be prosecuted.
I'm not saying he's good at his job, or fit to run a newsagent but in the context of doing everything Lerner wanted, he's fullfilled his brief
I think keeping us in the PL would have headed this brief.
I don't. I don't think Lerner ever considered relegation when he employed him. He's American. We're spending millions more than other teams in that league even if we reduce our expenditure. How can team's with half our resources and wage bill finish above us with just decent managers and motivated players to fall back on? Impossible!
Staying in the PL would have been the be all and end all until a sale was secured.
As i said, he's American. They don't understand they don't understand the whole concept of relegation.
Why don't US sports leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB, etc.) follow the "promotion/relegation" model used in Europe?
"The objectives and the competitive landscape of the leagues are vastly different. The Premier League, La Liga, Series A, and Bundesliga compete with each other. As a result, there is great incentive to build great teams that dominate Europe since strong teams bring more money into the league and more money makes a stronger league.
American leagues, the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL don't have competition. However, they still have the objective of making the most money"
yep. A score draw :o)
Staying in the PL would have been the be all and end all until a sale was secured.
As i said, he's American. They don't understand they don't understand the whole concept of relegation.
As i said, he's American. They don't understand they don't understand the whole concept of relegation.
This is perhaps the most patronising thing I've read on here in a long while. It's not a very hard concept to grasp, even if major league US sports don't use it.
6 fucking years notice you have had Mr Lerner.... SIX years .... for you to get it right and you have still fucked it up. How could you do that ....
6 fucking years notice you have had Mr Lerner.... SIX years .... for you to get it right and you have still fucked it up. How could you do that ....
We have been well warned and we continued to sign dross, cross our fingers and hope to avoid the drop.
Getting well and truly spanked out of this league this season. What was the 'project' again?
6 fucking years notice you have had Mr Lerner.... SIX years .... for you to get it right and you have still fucked it up. How could you do that ....
We have been well warned and we continued to sign dross, cross our fingers and hope to avoid the drop.
Getting well and truly spanked out of this league this season. What was the 'project' again?
To cause Randolph as little time, effort and money as possible now.
6 fucking years notice you have had Mr Lerner.... SIX years .... for you to get it right and you have still fucked it up. How could you do that ....
We have been well warned and we continued to sign dross, cross our fingers and hope to avoid the drop.
Getting well and truly spanked out of this league this season. What was the 'project' again?
To cause Randolph as little time, effort and money as possible now.
It has felt like that for a very long time...
Ever had an old expensive 10 speed racing bike rusting away in the shed?
The shed that's an inconvenient bus ride away.
You know, the bike you've lost interest in? You open the shed door every couple of years, peer through the gloom and cobwebs, look at it slowly falling apart and think "I should sell that, it cost me a lot of money. I'll get round to it one day, but I just can't be arsed at the moment, I've got too much going on"
You're hardly going to invest in new tyres, saddle or a service while it's locked away, forgotten and ignored, are you?
Besides, while it's depreciating it's hardly going to have any affect on you meeting your mortgage, gas and electricity payments, new car and nice family holidays is it? It's just not important at all. Anyway, your new wife and family are taking all your attention. Why should an old bike, that once seemed like a really good idea, have any importance now your life has moved on?
So, today it's still slowly rotting away in that damp, dark shed..........
Krulak claimed a lot of things, mostly bollocks though.
Ever had an old expensive 10 speed racing bike rusting away in the shed?
The shed that's an inconvenient bus ride away.
You know, the bike you've lost interest in? You open the shed door every couple of years, peer through the gloom and cobwebs, look at it slowly falling apart and think "I should sell that, it cost me a lot of money. I'll get round to it one day, but I just can't be arsed at the moment, I've got too much going on"
You're hardly going to invest in new tyres, saddle or a service while it's locked away, forgotten and ignored, are you?
Besides, while it's depreciating it's hardly going to have any affect on you meeting your mortgage, gas and electricity payments, new car and nice family holidays is it? It's just not important at all. Anyway, your new wife and family are taking all your attention. Why should an old bike, that once seemed like a really good idea, have any importance now your life has moved on?
So, today it's still slowly rotting away in that damp, dark shed..........
Ever had an old expensive 10 speed racing bike rusting away in the shed?
The shed that's an inconvenient bus ride away.
You know, the bike you've lost interest in? You open the shed door every couple of years, peer through the gloom and cobwebs, look at it slowly falling apart and think "I should sell that, it cost me a lot of money. I'll get round to it one day, but I just can't be arsed at the moment, I've got too much going on"
You're hardly going to invest in new tyres, saddle or a service while it's locked away, forgotten and ignored, are you?
Besides, while it's depreciating it's hardly going to have any affect on you meeting your mortgage, gas and electricity payments, new car and nice family holidays is it? It's just not important at all. Anyway, your new wife and family are taking all your attention. Why should an old bike, that once seemed like a really good idea, have any importance now your life has moved on?
So, today it's still slowly rotting away in that damp, dark shed..........
I take the point and Lerner is an absent, neglectful owner, but a bike isn't an asset losing £27 million a year.
In the magazine version of this site, I wrote a piece in the march edition asking why Villa have not been sold. The accounts yesterday gave the answer. Lerner can't sell the club. No buyer would want to take on this toxic mess.True, Trevor, except that for an enterprising and smart buyer there is good opportunity both to get the club cheaply and also to correct the elementary mistakes made by Lerner, at a time when the PL are giving clubs c£100m p.a.
Now we know that the spend rose and the income fell and 72% of income is on wages it was clear even before relegation that Lerner cannot get out even if he wants to. Only his money is keeping us from administration.
The fan protests now have to take this on board. There is no point in calling for lerner to go. Unless £100m plus is burning a hole in the protest group accounts, the club cannot be sold till things get better.
How is the big question.
Trevor FIsher,
Aston Villa has cost Randy Lerner $100,000 a day - Forbes.
http://onforb.es/1YQ0lTd
the main problem is what we are now perceived to be worth
i can see randolph never selling as he isnt going to get anything he like what he perceives to be a good price
very dark days ahead
Aston Villa has cost Randy Lerner $100,000 a day - Forbes.
http://onforb.es/1YQ0lTd
The only news in that was that we were £24M in debt when Doug sold as opposed to the debt free that is often cited. Adds some credence to the "we hadn't got a pot to piss in" and Petrov's signing could have pushed us into administration without him acting as guarantor.
Quite impressive to spend over £250 million from there and end up actually worse off. If it was anybody else you'd piss yourself laughing.
Aston Villa has cost Randy Lerner $100,000 a day - Forbes.
http://onforb.es/1YQ0lTd
The only news in that was that we were £24M in debt when Doug sold as opposed to the debt free that is often cited. Adds some credence to the "we hadn't got a pot to piss in" and Petrov's signing could have pushed us into administration without him acting as guarantor.
Quite impressive to spend over £250 million from there and end up actually worse off. If it was anybody else you'd piss yourself laughing.
Crazy isn't it. If someone had told me when Randy bought us that he'd spend that much money in 10 years and with MON at the helm, I'd have expected a few runs at the title and a cup or three. Even if the landscape changed with Man City we should have been well set up for sustained success or at the very least a top 6 or 7 side. I still think back to leading 4-1 at Spurs or 2-0 vs Stoke as massive defining moments. How Spurs have maintain the trajectory we should have been on. And ironically how after this weekend, Spurs' Moscow moment wasn't to be and their Europa League gamble paid off and they maintained their title ambitions. Off course it helped they played us. Randy should never be criticised for the level of his investment, but roundly lambasted for how he wasted pretty much every penny of it. Randy Lerner is Tom Hanks in The Money Pit. Aston Villa is his crumbling house.
Aston Villa has cost Randy Lerner $100,000 a day - Forbes.
http://onforb.es/1YQ0lTd
The only news in that was that we were £24M in debt when Doug sold as opposed to the debt free that is often cited. Adds some credence to the "we hadn't got a pot to piss in" and Petrov's signing could have pushed us into administration without him acting as guarantor.
Quite impressive to spend over £250 million from there and end up actually worse off. If it was anybody else you'd piss yourself laughing.
Crazy isn't it. If someone had told me when Randy bought us that he'd spend that much money in 10 years and with MON at the helm, I'd have expected a few runs at the title and a cup or three. Even if the landscape changed with Man City we should have been well set up for sustained success or at the very least a top 6 or 7 side. I still think back to leading 4-1 at Spurs or 2-0 vs Stoke as massive defining moments. How Spurs have maintain the trajectory we should have been on. And ironically how after this weekend, Spurs' Moscow moment wasn't to be and their Europa League gamble paid off and they maintained their title ambitions. Off course it helped they played us. Randy should never be criticised for the level of his investment, but roundly lambasted for how he wasted pretty much every penny of it. Randy Lerner is Tom Hanks in The Money Pit. Aston Villa is his crumbling house.
I think the difference being that spurs have been prepared to play the long game and maintain that level and progressively try to build adding new players and youngsters to the squad, being there or thereabouts until they got into the top 4. Randy had a dash at it, went for the short term dash for Champs League with O'neill, realised that nothing sustainable had been built when O'neill walked and then lost his nerve when he realised he was starting again and the amount of money it was going to cost. Plus Man City happening
Can we thank Hollis for that? Or is that too soon?
Recruitment has been his biggest failure.
Ten years in and we are only just getting what looks like it might be a competent board, for example
Recruitment has been his biggest failure.
Ten years in and we are only just getting what looks like it might be a competent board, for example
Exactly. Nail on head. If he had appointed some competent people to run the club from day 1, we would never have been in this mess. All right O'Neill might have had a strop and walked but would he have got a better job? I think even he would have seen the logic of it if there had been someone in position with authority and stature to spell it out to him.
MON refused to have anyone do anything football related that wasn't him. Back me or sack me played as a card more frequently than a joker in Its a knockout is my guess.
I'm not sure where to put this, but here looks as good a place as any: out of interest, does anyone know how much money we have paid out on severance packages since Lerner took charge?
Include in thatI'm not sure where to put this, but here looks as good a place as any: out of interest, does anyone know how much money we have paid out on severance packages since Lerner took charge?
Yep
O'Neill and chums - £12m
Houllier - £6m
McLeish - £2.2m
Player contract buy outs - £6m
Lambert - £3.3m
Total - £29.5m. Bargain.
I'm not sure where to put this, but here looks as good a place as any: out of interest, does anyone know how much money we have paid out on severance packages since Lerner took charge?
Yep
O'Neill and chums - £12m
Houllier - £6m
McLeish - £2.2m
Player contract buy outs - £6m
Lambert - £3.3m
Total - £29.5m. Bargain.
Do you think it likely that we are probably second only to Chelsea in terms of the amount of money we've paid out in termination payments over the last ten years?
Do you think it likely that we are probably second only to Chelsea in terms of the amount of money we've paid out in termination payments over the last ten years?
One thing Chelsea have done well when sacking managers mid-season is appoint replacements on short term contracts till the end of the season and buy time to appoint a permanent manager. Exactly what we should have done with Sherwood.
Do you think it likely that we are probably second only to Chelsea in terms of the amount of money we've paid out in termination payments over the last ten years?
One thing Chelsea have done well when sacking managers mid-season is appoint replacements on short term contracts till the end of the season and buy time to appoint a permanent manager. Exactly what we should have done with Sherwood.
That's a very good point, that would have been ideal. I'm not sure Sherwood would have gone for it though.
Do you think it likely that we are probably second only to Chelsea in terms of the amount of money we've paid out in termination payments over the last ten years?
One thing Chelsea have done well when sacking managers mid-season is appoint replacements on short term contracts till the end of the season and buy time to appoint a permanent manager. Exactly what we should have done with Sherwood.
Do you think it likely that we are probably second only to Chelsea in terms of the amount of money we've paid out in termination payments over the last ten years?
One thing Chelsea have done well when sacking managers mid-season is appoint replacements on short term contracts till the end of the season and buy time to appoint a permanent manager. Exactly what we should have done with Sherwood.
That's a very good point, that would have been ideal. I'm not sure Sherwood would have gone for it though.
Yeah, it is. Makes me wonder if we aren't bottom of this particular league then, too.
And I agree. I don't think Sherwood would have gone for it either.
Take over at Chelsea in February and there's a good chance you'll win a trophy. At Villa you might finish nineteenth.
Whilst I can't argue that Randy doesn't deserve the stick he's getting, my biggest worry right now is that he's pushed to sell up to the first offer he gets.
The general feeling on here seems to be that we're making the right moves off the park at long last, with the knowledge and experience we now have in the boardroom - so it would be crying shame if a new owner came in and discarded all that. Randy's biggest problem hasn't been lack of spending, it's been how much he's wasted through poor decisions. IF he now has the right people making these decisions for him, isn't it better that he stays?
What am saying is I fear us ending up the hands of the type of people who have have bought into some of those clubs that have gone down in previous seasons. Look at Forest, Wednesday and in particular Leeds who now have a madman with an axe in charge.
Maybe an absent owner, allowing experienced football people to get on with the task in hand, is the best option for us for the next few years at least.
As for the board appointments, I'm sceptical about Bernstein in particular. He's talking about proper planning and looking at where we've gone wrong. We don't need that. We all know where the club has gone wrong.
I know some of you felt my criticism of Garde was OTT, but the fact is he was the wrong man at the wrong time. We need a manager who knows the league and can deal with problem players.
I know some of you felt my criticism of Garde was OTT, but the fact is he was the wrong man at the wrong time. We need a manager who knows the league and can deal with problem players. Garde might have been able to punish the likes of Grealish, but the seniors just ignored him and he clearly couldn't stand up to them.
Managers need to be able to dominate players, not the other way round.
As for the board appointments, I'm sceptical about Bernstein in particular. He's talking about proper planning and looking at where we've gone wrong. We don't need that. We all know where the club has gone wrong.
I know some of you felt my criticism of Garde was OTT, but the fact is he was the wrong man at the wrong time. We need a manager who knows the league and can deal with problem players.
Not picking an argument here but I am genuinely curious, why is this a criteria?
Pep Gardiola for example certainly does not know this league but I think most most people regard his appointment as a good bit of business.
Surely we just want a good manager no? Regardless of where he comes from.
I know some of you felt my criticism of Garde was OTT, but the fact is he was the wrong man at the wrong time. We need a manager who knows the league and can deal with problem players. Garde might have been able to punish the likes of Grealish, but the seniors just ignored him and he clearly couldn't stand up to them.
Managers need to be able to dominate players, not the other way round.
No, your personal insults, constant references to nationality and gratuitous bile towards Garde were OTT, not your criticism.As for the board appointments, I'm sceptical about Bernstein in particular. He's talking about proper planning and looking at where we've gone wrong. We don't need that. We all know where the club has gone wrong.
We don't need proper planning? I'm interested - what kind of planning do we need? Ad-hoc, none?
I know some of you felt my criticism of Garde was OTT, but the fact is he was the wrong man at the wrong time. We need a manager who knows the league and can deal with problem players. Garde might have been able to punish the likes of Grealish, but the seniors just ignored him and he clearly couldn't stand up to them.
Managers need to be able to dominate players, not the other way round.
No, your personal insults, constant references to nationality and gratuitous bile towards Garde were OTT, not your criticism.As for the board appointments, I'm sceptical about Bernstein in particular. He's talking about proper planning and looking at where we've gone wrong. We don't need that. We all know where the club has gone wrong.
We don't need proper planning? I'm interested - what kind of planning do we need? Ad-hoc, none?
So a new manager comes in. He will report to Bernstein. Who has to report to Hollis. Who has to report to Lerner. Sounds a bit of a dogs breakfast to me.
Too many chiefs. Not enough Indians.
I know some of you felt my criticism of Garde was OTT, but the fact is he was the wrong man at the wrong time. We need a manager who knows the league and can deal with problem players. Garde might have been able to punish the likes of Grealish, but the seniors just ignored him and he clearly couldn't stand up to them.
Managers need to be able to dominate players, not the other way round.
No, your personal insults, constant references to nationality and gratuitous bile towards Garde were OTT, not your criticism.As for the board appointments, I'm sceptical about Bernstein in particular. He's talking about proper planning and looking at where we've gone wrong. We don't need that. We all know where the club has gone wrong.
We don't need proper planning? I'm interested - what kind of planning do we need? Ad-hoc, none?
So a new manager comes in. He will report to Bernstein. Who has to report to Hollis. Who has to report to Lerner. Sounds a bit of a dogs breakfast to me.
Too many chiefs. Not enough Indians.
I know some of you felt my criticism of Garde was OTT, but the fact is he was the wrong man at the wrong time. We need a manager who knows the league and can deal with problem players. Garde might have been able to punish the likes of Grealish, but the seniors just ignored him and he clearly couldn't stand up to them.
Managers need to be able to dominate players, not the other way round.
No, your personal insults, constant references to nationality and gratuitous bile towards Garde were OTT, not your criticism.As for the board appointments, I'm sceptical about Bernstein in particular. He's talking about proper planning and looking at where we've gone wrong. We don't need that. We all know where the club has gone wrong.
We don't need proper planning? I'm interested - what kind of planning do we need? Ad-hoc, none?
So a new manager comes in. He will report to Bernstein. Who has to report to Hollis. Who has to report to Lerner. Sounds a bit of a dogs breakfast to me.
Too many chiefs. Not enough Indians.
That's nice, but I'll repeat my actual question. We don't need proper planning? What kind of planning do we need - since you said we don't need proper planning?
I know some of you felt my criticism of Garde was OTT, but the fact is he was the wrong man at the wrong time. We need a manager who knows the league and can deal with problem players. Garde might have been able to punish the likes of Grealish, but the seniors just ignored him and he clearly couldn't stand up to them.
Managers need to be able to dominate players, not the other way round.
No, your personal insults, constant references to nationality and gratuitous bile towards Garde were OTT, not your criticism.As for the board appointments, I'm sceptical about Bernstein in particular. He's talking about proper planning and looking at where we've gone wrong. We don't need that. We all know where the club has gone wrong.
We don't need proper planning? I'm interested - what kind of planning do we need? Ad-hoc, none?
So a new manager comes in. He will report to Bernstein. Who has to report to Hollis. Who has to report to Lerner. Sounds a bit of a dogs breakfast to me.
Too many chiefs. Not enough Indians.
I know some of you felt my criticism of Garde was OTT, but the fact is he was the wrong man at the wrong time. We need a manager who knows the league and can deal with problem players. Garde might have been able to punish the likes of Grealish, but the seniors just ignored him and he clearly couldn't stand up to them.
Managers need to be able to dominate players, not the other way round.
No, your personal insults, constant references to nationality and gratuitous bile towards Garde were OTT, not your criticism.As for the board appointments, I'm sceptical about Bernstein in particular. He's talking about proper planning and looking at where we've gone wrong. We don't need that. We all know where the club has gone wrong.
We don't need proper planning? I'm interested - what kind of planning do we need? Ad-hoc, none?
So a new manager comes in. He will report to Bernstein. Who has to report to Hollis. Who has to report to Lerner. Sounds a bit of a dogs breakfast to me.
Too many chiefs. Not enough Indians.
That's nice, but I'll repeat my actual question. We don't need proper planning? What kind of planning do we need - since you said we don't need proper planning?
It's just yet another LTA whinge.
Surely you start making plans AFTER the manager is appointed?
No, that's exactly what you do. You build the structure that will support the manager and then you pick the right manager to fit that strategy. Swansea have been doing for years, as have Southampton. That way when the manager leaves in the way O'Neill did, you're not completely screwed.I know some of you felt my criticism of Garde was OTT, but the fact is he was the wrong man at the wrong time. We need a manager who knows the league and can deal with problem players. Garde might have been able to punish the likes of Grealish, but the seniors just ignored him and he clearly couldn't stand up to them.
Managers need to be able to dominate players, not the other way round.
No, your personal insults, constant references to nationality and gratuitous bile towards Garde were OTT, not your criticism.As for the board appointments, I'm sceptical about Bernstein in particular. He's talking about proper planning and looking at where we've gone wrong. We don't need that. We all know where the club has gone wrong.
We don't need proper planning? I'm interested - what kind of planning do we need? Ad-hoc, none?
So a new manager comes in. He will report to Bernstein. Who has to report to Hollis. Who has to report to Lerner. Sounds a bit of a dogs breakfast to me.
Too many chiefs. Not enough Indians.
That's nice, but I'll repeat my actual question. We don't need proper planning? What kind of planning do we need - since you said we don't need proper planning?
It's just yet another LTA whinge.
It's a genuine question. Whether people like it or not, Lerner still has the final say as it's his club and has holds the purse strings. It's not as if Hollis can help himself to the silver while his backs turned.
Yes we do need planning, but that has to include the manager. We tried to shoehorn Garde into the job because his preferred style of committees was one he admitted himself he was comfortable in. Surely you start making plans AFTER the manager is appointed? Not building some grand plan and hoping the new manager will happily accept it.
This business of having two separate boards doesn't sit well with me at all.
I know some of you felt my criticism of Garde was OTT, but the fact is he was the wrong man at the wrong time. We need a manager who knows the league and can deal with problem players. Garde might have been able to punish the likes of Grealish, but the seniors just ignored him and he clearly couldn't stand up to them.
Managers need to be able to dominate players, not the other way round.
No, your personal insults, constant references to nationality and gratuitous bile towards Garde were OTT, not your criticism.As for the board appointments, I'm sceptical about Bernstein in particular. He's talking about proper planning and looking at where we've gone wrong. We don't need that. We all know where the club has gone wrong.
We don't need proper planning? I'm interested - what kind of planning do we need? Ad-hoc, none?
So a new manager comes in. He will report to Bernstein. Who has to report to Hollis. Who has to report to Lerner. Sounds a bit of a dogs breakfast to me.
Too many chiefs. Not enough Indians.
Manager - Executive/DoF/Sporting Director - Chairman - Owner.
I cant have it that the club formulates a structure and then finds the manager to fit that structure. The club has to be far more more flexible than that. For too long we have had substandard managers willing to take the job as yes men to the owner. In order to have the proper man in charge, he must be allowed to operate in his way using his methodology and with the necessary funds to back him.
For a successful billionaire i cannot believe the total lack of intelligence he has shown over the last ten years.
I know some of you felt my criticism of Garde was OTT, but the fact is he was the wrong man at the wrong time. We need a manager who knows the league and can deal with problem players. Garde might have been able to punish the likes of Grealish, but the seniors just ignored him and he clearly couldn't stand up to them.
Managers need to be able to dominate players, not the other way round.
No, your personal insults, constant references to nationality and gratuitous bile towards Garde were OTT, not your criticism.As for the board appointments, I'm sceptical about Bernstein in particular. He's talking about proper planning and looking at where we've gone wrong. We don't need that. We all know where the club has gone wrong.
We don't need proper planning? I'm interested - what kind of planning do we need? Ad-hoc, none?
So a new manager comes in. He will report to Bernstein. Who has to report to Hollis. Who has to report to Lerner. Sounds a bit of a dogs breakfast to me.
Too many chiefs. Not enough Indians.
That's nice, but I'll repeat my actual question. We don't need proper planning? What kind of planning do we need - since you said we don't need proper planning?
It's just yet another LTA whinge.
It's a genuine question. Whether people like it or not, Lerner still has the final say as it's his club and has holds the purse strings. It's not as if Hollis can help himself to the silver while his backs turned.
Yes we do need planning, but that has to include the manager. We tried to shoehorn Garde into the job because his preferred style of committees was one he admitted himself he was comfortable in. Surely you start making plans AFTER the manager is appointed? Not building some grand plan and hoping the new manager will happily accept it.
This business of having two separate boards doesn't sit well with me at all.
He's done little of note other than inherit a fortune from his very successful father, and run two sporting institutions into the ground.I do wonder if he's learnt his lesson yet?
He's done little of note other than inherit a fortune from his very successful father, and run two sporting institutions into the ground.I do wonder if he's learnt his lesson yet?
That he might not, on the available evidence, be quite cut out for owning sporting institutions?
He has reduced us to not much more than a pile of rubble, and I gather that his other venture across the Atlantic didn't turn out as expected either.
He should consider buying himself a a small Caribbean island, forget about acquiring historic sports clubs, and just see out his days in luxurious obscurity.
Because, Mr Lerner, if this karma thing is real, you'd better keep your fucking head down.
No it's not a threat.He's done little of note other than inherit a fortune from his very successful father, and run two sporting institutions into the ground.I do wonder if he's learnt his lesson yet?
That he might not, on the available evidence, be quite cut out for owning sporting institutions?
He has reduced us to not much more than a pile of rubble, and I gather that his other venture across the Atlantic didn't turn out as expected either.
He should consider buying himself a a small Caribbean island, forget about acquiring historic sports clubs, and just see out his days in luxurious obscurity.
Because, Mr Lerner, if this karma thing is real, you'd better keep your fucking head down.
Why?
I didn't say I believed "in all that stuff".He's done little of note other than inherit a fortune from his very successful father, and run two sporting institutions into the ground.I do wonder if he's learnt his lesson yet?
That he might not, on the available evidence, be quite cut out for owning sporting institutions?
He has reduced us to not much more than a pile of rubble, and I gather that his other venture across the Atlantic didn't turn out as expected either.
He should consider buying himself a a small Caribbean island, forget about acquiring historic sports clubs, and just see out his days in luxurious obscurity.
Because, Mr Lerner, if this karma thing is real, you'd better keep your fucking head down.
Why? If you do believe in all that stuff then you also accept that he would be doing these things deliberately, in a spirit of malevolence. Nobody with any sense would say that.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
For all his faults, I cant believe anyone thinks Randy wanted this to happen.
Okore's agent is very unhappy with him
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3522349/Aston-Villa-owner-Randy-Lerner-thrown-towel-insists-Jores-Okore-s-agent.html
Okore's agent is very unhappy with him
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3522349/Aston-Villa-owner-Randy-Lerner-thrown-towel-insists-Jores-Okore-s-agent.html
Why would his agent say this now? Surely best to keep quiet as he will know that the board has changed and that a new manager is being sought. It looks as though he is frantically trying to get him the hell out. How long has Okore got left on his contract?
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
For all his faults, I cant believe anyone thinks Randy wanted this to happen.
Yeah, bless him. Ignorance is no excuse though, he's a fuckin disgrace.
Are you so monochromatic and myopic about everything in life, or just about the Villa?The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
For all his faults, I cant believe anyone thinks Randy wanted this to happen.
Yeah, bless him. Ignorance is no excuse though, he's a fuckin disgrace.
Okore's agent is very unhappy with him
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3522349/Aston-Villa-owner-Randy-Lerner-thrown-towel-insists-Jores-Okore-s-agent.html
Why would his agent say this now? Surely best to keep quiet as he will know that the board has changed and that a new manager is being sought. It looks as though he is frantically trying to get him the hell out. How long has Okore got left on his contract?
Looks like he wants out.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
For all his faults, I cant believe anyone thinks Randy wanted this to happen.
Yeah, bless him. Ignorance is no excuse though, he's a fuckin disgrace.
And the man who did it deliberately is beyond criticism.
Well that's patently bollocks.Okore's agent is very unhappy with him
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3522349/Aston-Villa-owner-Randy-Lerner-thrown-towel-insists-Jores-Okore-s-agent.html
Why would his agent say this now? Surely best to keep quiet as he will know that the board has changed and that a new manager is being sought. It looks as though he is frantically trying to get him the hell out. How long has Okore got left on his contract?
Okore's agent is very unhappy with him
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3522349/Aston-Villa-owner-Randy-Lerner-thrown-towel-insists-Jores-Okore-s-agent.html
Why would his agent say this now? Surely best to keep quiet as he will know that the board has changed and that a new manager is being sought. It looks as though he is frantically trying to get him the hell out. How long has Okore got left on his contract?
Looks like he wants out.
Yeah my thoughts exactly. Rats and sinking ships! And so it begins.
Despite some of his mistakes this season I do think there is a good player in Okore. Always thought he had a good attitude too. Shame. He'd be in the small group of players I'd want to stay but obviously not if his heart isn't in it.
Okore's agent is very unhappy with him
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3522349/Aston-Villa-owner-Randy-Lerner-thrown-towel-insists-Jores-Okore-s-agent.html
Why would his agent say this now? Surely best to keep quiet as he will know that the board has changed and that a new manager is being sought. It looks as though he is frantically trying to get him the hell out. How long has Okore got left on his contract?
Looks like he wants out.
Yeah my thoughts exactly. Rats and sinking ships! And so it begins.
Despite some of his mistakes this season I do think there is a good player in Okore. Always thought he had a good attitude too. Shame. He'd be in the small group of players I'd want to stay but obviously not if his heart isn't in it.
Bringing Lerner's name into knowing the fans' dislike of him is a dirty trick in my opinion. Its clear he wants out but he hasn't got the guts to admit it.
Okore's agent is very unhappy with him
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3522349/Aston-Villa-owner-Randy-Lerner-thrown-towel-insists-Jores-Okore-s-agent.html
Why would his agent say this now? Surely best to keep quiet as he will know that the board has changed and that a new manager is being sought. It looks as though he is frantically trying to get him the hell out. How long has Okore got left on his contract?
Looks like he wants out.
Yeah my thoughts exactly. Rats and sinking ships! And so it begins.
Despite some of his mistakes this season I do think there is a good player in Okore. Always thought he had a good attitude too. Shame. He'd be in the small group of players I'd want to stay but obviously not if his heart isn't in it.
Bringing Lerner's name into knowing the fans' dislike of him is a dirty trick in my opinion. Its clear he wants out but he hasn't got the guts to admit it.
I'd have thought that you'd be in favour of as many people criticising Lerner's ownership as possible. Particularly those whose comments are likely to end up in the press.
He's done little of note other than inherit a fortune from his very successful father, and run two sporting institutions into the ground.I do wonder if he's learnt his lesson yet?
That he might not, on the available evidence, be quite cut out for owning sporting institutions?
He has reduced us to not much more than a pile of rubble, and I gather that his other venture across the Atlantic didn't turn out as expected either.
He should consider buying himself a a small Caribbean island, forget about acquiring historic sports clubs, and just see out his days in luxurious obscurity.
Because, Mr Lerner, if this karma thing is real, you'd better keep your fucking head down.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
For all his faults, I cant believe anyone thinks Randy wanted this to happen.
Yeah, bless him. Ignorance is no excuse though, he's a fuckin disgrace.
And the man who did it deliberately is beyond criticism.
I think the man you speak of has received more criticism on here than anyone in history but for all his faults he never humiliated the club as much as Lerner has for these last 6 seasons.
This club has been humiliated beyond belief by Lerner and you know it.
It's entirely possible that, in succession, we've had two really shit owners. One a spiteful, self-obsessed profiteer, and the other a detached, aloof, complacent, negligent fool.
Who are you to argue, indeed.
It's entirely possible that, in succession, we've had two really shit owners. One a spiteful, self-obsessed profiteer, and the other a detached, aloof, complacent, negligent fool.
It's entirely possible that, in succession, we've had two really shit owners. One a spiteful, self-obsessed profiteer, and the other a detached, aloof, complacent, negligent fool.
True. One of them has humiliated us beyond belief and turned us into a national laughing stock though.
Try international, or global even.It's entirely possible that, in succession, we've had two really shit owners. One a spiteful, self-obsessed profiteer, and the other a detached, aloof, complacent, negligent fool.
True. One of them has humiliated us beyond belief and turned us into a national laughing stock though.
It's entirely possible that, in succession, we've had two really shit owners. One a spiteful, self-obsessed profiteer, and the other a detached, aloof, complacent, negligent fool.
True. One of them has humiliated us beyond belief and turned us into a national laughing stock though.
Although Doug rightly gets a lot of stick for presiding over our last relegation just 5 years after we were top dogs, people also forget he did the right things in rebuilding us. 5 years later we almost won the league again, and fast forward 5 more years and we had 2 more trophies in the cabinet.
As others have said I don't think many fans have felt this low about the Villa ever before, and that includes people who've been going down for over 40 years.
Although Doug rightly gets a lot of stick for presiding over our last relegation just 5 years after we were top dogs, people also forget he did the right things in rebuilding us. 5 years later we almost won the league again, and fast forward 5 more years and we had 2 more trophies in the cabinet.
As others have said I don't think many fans have felt this low about the Villa ever before, and that includes people who've been going down for over 40 years.
This is what I mean about luck. Without the intervention of Sir Graham, things could have been very, very different.
Who will be our Graham Taylor now?
Ellis and Lerner were both treated as saviours when they took over the club. Both made monkeys out of the fans and one left Villa a considerably richer man than when he joined. I hate the pair of them equally.Agreed
Although Doug rightly gets a lot of stick for presiding over our last relegation just 5 years after we were top dogs, people also forget he did the right things in rebuilding us. 5 years later we almost won the league again, and fast forward 5 more years and we had 2 more trophies in the cabinet.That was just luck, apparently. If he'd not been given a tip off about Graham Taylor's Watford contract in 1987.... At least that's what some will tell you. Never mind that he didn't need to act on the tip off. He could have employed A. N. Other and seen us drift in the lower divisions for years. But no, he did the common sense thing.
Although Doug rightly gets a lot of stick for presiding over our last relegation just 5 years after we were top dogs, people also forget he did the right things in rebuilding us. 5 years later we almost won the league again, and fast forward 5 more years and we had 2 more trophies in the cabinet.That was just luck, apparently. If he'd not given a tip off about Graham Taylor's Watford contract in 1987 history. At least that's what some will tell you. Never mind that he didn't need to act on the tip off. He could have employed A. N. Other and seen us drift in the lower divisions for years. But no, he did the common sense thing.
Was Ellis lucky when he appointed Ron Saunders?
I just found out today that Lerner has only been to Villa Park once since December 2012.
I just found out today that Lerner has only been to Villa Park once since December 2012.
How the fuck did he get a cup final ticket?
I just found out today that Lerner has only been to Villa Park once since December 2012.
And people who cannot bear to give Ellis any, even the slightest amount of credit for Villa returning to the top flight and achieving what hoyle87 outlined above have repeated it since.Although Doug rightly gets a lot of stick for presiding over our last relegation just 5 years after we were top dogs, people also forget he did the right things in rebuilding us. 5 years later we almost won the league again, and fast forward 5 more years and we had 2 more trophies in the cabinet.That was just luck, apparently. If he'd not given a tip off about Graham Taylor's Watford contract in 1987 history. At least that's what some will tell you. Never mind that he didn't need to act on the tip off. He could have employed A. N. Other and seen us drift in the lower divisions for years. But no, he did the common sense thing.
It's not "some people", it's Graham Taylor who said it.
And people who cannot bear to give Ellis any, even the slightest amount of credit for Villa returning to the top flight and achieving what hoyle87 outlined above have repeated it since.Although Doug rightly gets a lot of stick for presiding over our last relegation just 5 years after we were top dogs, people also forget he did the right things in rebuilding us. 5 years later we almost won the league again, and fast forward 5 more years and we had 2 more trophies in the cabinet.That was just luck, apparently. If he'd not given a tip off about Graham Taylor's Watford contract in 1987 history. At least that's what some will tell you. Never mind that he didn't need to act on the tip off. He could have employed A. N. Other and seen us drift in the lower divisions for years. But no, he did the common sense thing.
It's not "some people", it's Graham Taylor who said it.
I'm sure three wins in 32 games and impending relegation under a chairman who has attended VP once in four years (thanks for that stat, Jon) is more noteworthy at present than what Ellis might or might not have been.
If it's true, then "people" - and why don't you come straight out and say who you mean? - are entitled to repeat it whether you want them to or not. In fact , they're entitled to say what they want on here, subject to the rules of the site, as often as they like .No doubt they are entitled to do so; I just find doing it on a "Randy Lerner" thread odd. As for who, I meant several people on the forum; names escape me so it's not that important. Maybe you think you know who I mean.
I just found out today that Lerner has only been to Villa Park once since December 2012.
How the fuck did he get a cup final ticket?
That'll learn the fucker
Someone asked Stan on twitter if next manager search is on hold due to Lerner not agreeing budgets next year.
Anyone heard owt?
As far as I'm concerned the 'Randy out' stuff is a waste of time, he's already out
He couldn't sell so he's passed it over to the new board, it's they who will now run the show,
Because he is the owner he will obviously be told what's going on but will have virtually no say in any decisions made
he will agree funding budgets just like any bank/investment type company would with any club working with a board of governors
As far as I'm concerned the 'Randy out' stuff is a waste of time, he's already out
He couldn't sell so he's passed it over to the new board, it's they who will now run the show,
Because he is the owner he will obviously be told what's going on but will have virtually no say in any decisions made
he will agree funding budgets just like any bank/investment type company would with any club working with a board of governors
The money situation is such a huge part of running a club though. And there's going to be very little next season.
But there are decisions Lerner is going to have to make regarding money as well, he can't hide away from any responsibility thousands of miles away. All he has to do is tell them what they have to work with and to get on with it, it's not hard, if he can't even be bothered with that and we are waiting around for his bi annual phone call then he's a bigger c*** than I imagined.
Either way the coward is a neglectful idiot who should be barred from owning any sporting institution in the future.
eBut there are decisions Lerner is going to have to make regarding money as well, he can't hide away from any responsibility thousands of miles away. All he has to do is tell them what they have to work with and to get on with it, it's not hard, if he can't even be bothered with that and we are waiting around for his bi annual phone call then he's a bigger c*** than I imagined.
Either way the coward is a neglectful idiot who should be barred from owning any sporting institution in the future.
Correctamundo, sadly. Some folk blame everybody else at the club for this horrendous state we are in, but the buck stops (quite literally) with the useless, cowardly moron at the top. Words barely describe the utter contempt I have for Randolph Fecking Lerner. When our club so desperately requires leadership & a completely new plan to rebuild this utter shambles, our owner continues to hide somewhere on the USA's Eastern Seaboard & thinks the best part of 200 million quid is a realistic price to rid him of his wrecked toy. God help us.
Some leadership wouldn't go amiss.
The very least he can do is apologise.
eBut there are decisions Lerner is going to have to make regarding money as well, he can't hide away from any responsibility thousands of miles away. All he has to do is tell them what they have to work with and to get on with it, it's not hard, if he can't even be bothered with that and we are waiting around for his bi annual phone call then he's a bigger c*** than I imagined.
Either way the coward is a neglectful idiot who should be barred from owning any sporting institution in the future.
Correctamundo, sadly. Some folk blame everybody else at the club for this horrendous state we are in, but the buck stops (quite literally) with the useless, cowardly moron at the top. Words barely describe the utter contempt I have for Randolph Fecking Lerner. When our club so desperately requires leadership & a completely new plan to rebuild this utter shambles, our owner continues to hide somewhere on the USA's Eastern Seaboard & thinks the best part of 200 million quid is a realistic price to rid him of his wrecked toy. God help us.
Let me get this right, you actually want him to come back take charge and start running the football club under his leadership ?
reBut there are decisions Lerner is going to have to make regarding money as well, he can't hide away from any responsibility thousands of miles away. All he has to do is tell them what they have to work with and to get on with it, it's not hard, if he can't even be bothered with that and we are waiting around for his bi annual phone call then he's a bigger c*** than I imagined.
Either way the coward is a neglectful idiot who should be barred from owning any sporting institution in the future.
Correctamundo, sadly. Some folk blame everybody else at the club for this horrendous state we are in, but the buck stops (quite literally) with the useless, cowardly moron at the top. Words barely describe the utter contempt I have for Randolph Fecking Lerner. When our club so desperately requires leadership & a completely new plan to rebuild this utter shambles, our owner continues to hide somewhere on the USA's Eastern Seaboard & thinks the best part of 200 million quid is a realistic price to rid him of his wrecked toy. God help us.
Let me get this right, you actually want him to come back take charge and start running the football club under his leadership ?
I want him to fuck-right-off ASAP! Unfortunately, seeing as the aforementioned probably isn't going to happen anytime soon: I think it is in everybody's interest at the club that he involves himself in doing something to bring about positive change, rather than continuing to hide away in unaccountable silence.
reBut there are decisions Lerner is going to have to make regarding money as well, he can't hide away from any responsibility thousands of miles away. All he has to do is tell them what they have to work with and to get on with it, it's not hard, if he can't even be bothered with that and we are waiting around for his bi annual phone call then he's a bigger c*** than I imagined.
Either way the coward is a neglectful idiot who should be barred from owning any sporting institution in the future.
Correctamundo, sadly. Some folk blame everybody else at the club for this horrendous state we are in, but the buck stops (quite literally) with the useless, cowardly moron at the top. Words barely describe the utter contempt I have for Randolph Fecking Lerner. When our club so desperately requires leadership & a completely new plan to rebuild this utter shambles, our owner continues to hide somewhere on the USA's Eastern Seaboard & thinks the best part of 200 million quid is a realistic price to rid him of his wrecked toy. God help us.
Let me get this right, you actually want him to come back take charge and start running the football club under his leadership ?
I want him to fuck-right-off ASAP! Unfortunately, seeing as the aforementioned probably isn't going to happen anytime soon: I think it is in everybody's interest at the club that he involves himself in doing something to bring about positive change, rather than continuing to hide away in unaccountable silence.
disagree entirely,
stay away with no involvement and let the new board get on with it
The very least he can do is apologise.
Yeah I wonder if we'll get any kind of statement from the great man himself?
The very least he can do is apologise.
Yeah I wonder if we'll get any kind of statement from the great man himself?
What's the point? It would be meaningless platitudes, incomprehensible gibberish or both.
reBut there are decisions Lerner is going to have to make regarding money as well, he can't hide away from any responsibility thousands of miles away. All he has to do is tell them what they have to work with and to get on with it, it's not hard, if he can't even be bothered with that and we are waiting around for his bi annual phone call then he's a bigger c*** than I imagined.
Either way the coward is a neglectful idiot who should be barred from owning any sporting institution in the future.
Correctamundo, sadly. Some folk blame everybody else at the club for this horrendous state we are in, but the buck stops (quite literally) with the useless, cowardly moron at the top. Words barely describe the utter contempt I have for Randolph Fecking Lerner. When our club so desperately requires leadership & a completely new plan to rebuild this utter shambles, our owner continues to hide somewhere on the USA's Eastern Seaboard & thinks the best part of 200 million quid is a realistic price to rid him of his wrecked toy. God help us.
Let me get this right, you actually want him to come back take charge and start running the football club under his leadership ?
I want him to fuck-right-off ASAP! Unfortunately, seeing as the aforementioned probably isn't going to happen anytime soon: I think it is in everybody's interest at the club that he involves himself in doing something to bring about positive change, rather than continuing to hide away in unaccountable silence.
disagree entirely,
stay away with no involvement and let the new board get on with it
But there are decisions Lerner is going to have to make regarding money as well, he can't hide away from any responsibility thousands of miles away. All he has to do is tell them what they have to work with and to get on with it, it's not hard, if he can't even be bothered with that and we are waiting around for his bi annual phone call then he's a bigger c*** than I imagined.
Either way the coward is a neglectful idiot who should be barred from owning any sporting institution in the future.
Correctamundo, sadly. Some folk blame everybody else at the club for this horrendous state we are in, but the buck stops (quite literally) with the useless, cowardly moron at the top.
reBut there are decisions Lerner is going to have to make regarding money as well, he can't hide away from any responsibility thousands of miles away. All he has to do is tell them what they have to work with and to get on with it, it's not hard, if he can't even be bothered with that and we are waiting around for his bi annual phone call then he's a bigger c*** than I imagined.
Either way the coward is a neglectful idiot who should be barred from owning any sporting institution in the future.
Correctamundo, sadly. Some folk blame everybody else at the club for this horrendous state we are in, but the buck stops (quite literally) with the useless, cowardly moron at the top. Words barely describe the utter contempt I have for Randolph Fecking Lerner. When our club so desperately requires leadership & a completely new plan to rebuild this utter shambles, our owner continues to hide somewhere on the USA's Eastern Seaboard & thinks the best part of 200 million quid is a realistic price to rid him of his wrecked toy. God help us.
Let me get this right, you actually want him to come back take charge and start running the football club under his leadership ?
I want him to fuck-right-off ASAP! Unfortunately, seeing as the aforementioned probably isn't going to happen anytime soon: I think it is in everybody's interest at the club that he involves himself in doing something to bring about positive change, rather than continuing to hide away in unaccountable silence.
disagree entirely,
stay away with no involvement and let the new board get on with it
What, the new Board who are reliant on the owner giving the final word on how much money is available to carry out their plans?! He who pays the piper - also calls the tune.
reBut there are decisions Lerner is going to have to make regarding money as well, he can't hide away from any responsibility thousands of miles away. All he has to do is tell them what they have to work with and to get on with it, it's not hard, if he can't even be bothered with that and we are waiting around for his bi annual phone call then he's a bigger c*** than I imagined.
Either way the coward is a neglectful idiot who should be barred from owning any sporting institution in the future.
Correctamundo, sadly. Some folk blame everybody else at the club for this horrendous state we are in, but the buck stops (quite literally) with the useless, cowardly moron at the top. Words barely describe the utter contempt I have for Randolph Fecking Lerner. When our club so desperately requires leadership & a completely new plan to rebuild this utter shambles, our owner continues to hide somewhere on the USA's Eastern Seaboard & thinks the best part of 200 million quid is a realistic price to rid him of his wrecked toy. God help us.
Let me get this right, you actually want him to come back take charge and start running the football club under his leadership ?
I want him to fuck-right-off ASAP! Unfortunately, seeing as the aforementioned probably isn't going to happen anytime soon: I think it is in everybody's interest at the club that he involves himself in doing something to bring about positive change, rather than continuing to hide away in unaccountable silence.
disagree entirely,
stay away with no involvement and let the new board get on with it
What, the new Board who are reliant on the owner giving the final word on how much money is available to carry out their plans?! He who pays the piper - also calls the tune.
Most football boards are reliant on financial budget restrictions that they don't have complete control over, this is quite common
Do we believe that the manager search is on hold whilst Lerner pulls his finger out of his arse and lets everyone know what the budget is?It's not on hold.
Do we believe that the manager search is on hold whilst Lerner pulls his finger out of his arse and lets everyone know what the budget is?
reBut there are decisions Lerner is going to have to make regarding money as well, he can't hide away from any responsibility thousands of miles away. All he has to do is tell them what they have to work with and to get on with it, it's not hard, if he can't even be bothered with that and we are waiting around for his bi annual phone call then he's a bigger c*** than I imagined.
Either way the coward is a neglectful idiot who should be barred from owning any sporting institution in the future.
Correctamundo, sadly. Some folk blame everybody else at the club for this horrendous state we are in, but the buck stops (quite literally) with the useless, cowardly moron at the top. Words barely describe the utter contempt I have for Randolph Fecking Lerner. When our club so desperately requires leadership & a completely new plan to rebuild this utter shambles, our owner continues to hide somewhere on the USA's Eastern Seaboard & thinks the best part of 200 million quid is a realistic price to rid him of his wrecked toy. God help us.
Let me get this right, you actually want him to come back take charge and start running the football club under his leadership ?
I want him to fuck-right-off ASAP! Unfortunately, seeing as the aforementioned probably isn't going to happen anytime soon: I think it is in everybody's interest at the club that he involves himself in doing something to bring about positive change, rather than continuing to hide away in unaccountable silence.
disagree entirely,
stay away with no involvement and let the new board get on with it
What, the new Board who are reliant on the owner giving the final word on how much money is available to carry out their plans?! He who pays the piper - also calls the tune.
Most football boards are reliant on financial budget restrictions that they don't have complete control over, this is quite common
Indeed, but how many clubs are in our situation presently?
But there are decisions Lerner is going to have to make regarding money as well, he can't hide away from any responsibility thousands of miles away. All he has to do is tell them what they have to work with and to get on with it, it's not hard, if he can't even be bothered with that and we are waiting around for his bi annual phone call then he's a bigger c*** than I imagined.
Either way the coward is a neglectful idiot who should be barred from owning any sporting institution in the future.
Correctamundo, sadly. Some folk blame everybody else at the club for this horrendous state we are in, but the buck stops (quite literally) with the useless, cowardly moron at the top.
Oh yes? Who is blaming "everybody else at the club" then?
Pearson has said he won't take over until this season is over (imo)Haha... I was thinking how can someone say something in your opinion?
Do we believe that the manager search is on hold whilst Lerner pulls his finger out of his arse and lets everyone know what the budget is?
Or is it just a newspaper speculating on why a manager hasn't been appointed yet?
reBut there are decisions Lerner is going to have to make regarding money as well, he can't hide away from any responsibility thousands of miles away. All he has to do is tell them what they have to work with and to get on with it, it's not hard, if he can't even be bothered with that and we are waiting around for his bi annual phone call then he's a bigger c*** than I imagined.
Either way the coward is a neglectful idiot who should be barred from owning any sporting institution in the future.
Correctamundo, sadly. Some folk blame everybody else at the club for this horrendous state we are in, but the buck stops (quite literally) with the useless, cowardly moron at the top. Words barely describe the utter contempt I have for Randolph Fecking Lerner. When our club so desperately requires leadership & a completely new plan to rebuild this utter shambles, our owner continues to hide somewhere on the USA's Eastern Seaboard & thinks the best part of 200 million quid is a realistic price to rid him of his wrecked toy. God help us.
Let me get this right, you actually want him to come back take charge and start running the football club under his leadership ?
I want him to fuck-right-off ASAP! Unfortunately, seeing as the aforementioned probably isn't going to happen anytime soon: I think it is in everybody's interest at the club that he involves himself in doing something to bring about positive change, rather than continuing to hide away in unaccountable silence.
disagree entirely,
stay away with no involvement and let the new board get on with it
What, the new Board who are reliant on the owner giving the final word on how much money is available to carry out their plans?! He who pays the piper - also calls the tune.
Most football boards are reliant on financial budget restrictions that they don't have complete control over, this is quite common
Indeed, but how many clubs are in our situation presently?
Fair enough
but I'm not the one wanting him to stop hiding come back and take control of things and show leadership
I'm the one who thinks he fucked up last time he did that and the best place for him is to stay where he is stay quiet and let the new board run the club
That where we differ
He doesn't even need to provide any further backing. As long as everyone else, in positions of power and influence at the club know the score and are allowed to organise themselves and the club as they see fit best for the clubs benefit.
I have no problem with Lerner becoming a Lord Lucan and never being seen or heard from again as long as we aren't in any form of limbo where we wait for him to make any decision on anything.
He doesn't even need to provide any further backing. As long as everyone else, in positions of power and influence at the club know the score and are allowed to organise themselves and the club as they see fit best for the clubs benefit.
I have no problem with Lerner becoming a Lord Lucan and never being seen or heard from again as long as we aren't in any form of limbo where we wait for him to make any decision on anything.
There should be enough resources available to give the new manager the best possible shot at getting back up without having to rely on the owner's largesse - which is what got us into trouble in the first place.
He doesn't even need to provide any further backing. As long as everyone else, in positions of power and influence at the club know the score and are allowed to organise themselves and the club as they see fit best for the clubs benefit.
I have no problem with Lerner becoming a Lord Lucan and never being seen or heard from again as long as we aren't in any form of limbo where we wait for him to make any decision on anything.
There should be enough resources available to give the new manager the best possible shot at getting back up without having to rely on the owner's largesse - which is what got us into trouble in the first place.
I honestly can't see that being the case. It largely depends of course, on how much the reduction in income is going to be offset by any contractual reductions in player salaries, but while we may not end up in Bolton levels of trouble, I can't see our income being sufficient to rebuild the team properly next year. It's not like we have lots of saleable assets either.
He doesn't even need to provide any further backing. As long as everyone else, in positions of power and influence at the club know the score and are allowed to organise themselves and the club as they see fit best for the clubs benefit.
I have no problem with Lerner becoming a Lord Lucan and never being seen or heard from again as long as we aren't in any form of limbo where we wait for him to make any decision on anything.
There should be enough resources available to give the new manager the best possible shot at getting back up without having to rely on the owner's largesse - which is what got us into trouble in the first place.
I honestly can't see that being the case. It largely depends of course, on how much the reduction in income is going to be offset by any contractual reductions in player salaries, but while we may not end up in Bolton levels of trouble, I can't see our income being sufficient to rebuild the team properly next year. It's not like we have lots of saleable assets either.
Wonder if he'll even bother releasing a statement about our relegation. An apology to fans would be a good start.
Agree and this is the Unknown and scary part, I think after the player sales, reduction in salarys and paying off contracts there will be a significant gap to finance new players. There is sadly only one place they can go to get this and that is Lerner.He doesn't even need to provide any further backing. As long as everyone else, in positions of power and influence at the club know the score and are allowed to organise themselves and the club as they see fit best for the clubs benefit.
I have no problem with Lerner becoming a Lord Lucan and never being seen or heard from again as long as we aren't in any form of limbo where we wait for him to make any decision on anything.
There should be enough resources available to give the new manager the best possible shot at getting back up without having to rely on the owner's largesse - which is what got us into trouble in the first place.
I honestly can't see that being the case. It largely depends of course, on how much the reduction in income is going to be offset by any contractual reductions in player salaries, but while we may not end up in Bolton levels of trouble, I can't see our income being sufficient to rebuild the team properly next year. It's not like we have lots of saleable assets either.
Agree and this is the Unknown and scary part, I think after the player sales, reduction in salarys and paying off contracts there will be a significant gap to finance new players. There is sadly only one place they can go to get this and that is Lerner.He doesn't even need to provide any further backing. As long as everyone else, in positions of power and influence at the club know the score and are allowed to organise themselves and the club as they see fit best for the clubs benefit.
I have no problem with Lerner becoming a Lord Lucan and never being seen or heard from again as long as we aren't in any form of limbo where we wait for him to make any decision on anything.
There should be enough resources available to give the new manager the best possible shot at getting back up without having to rely on the owner's largesse - which is what got us into trouble in the first place.
I honestly can't see that being the case. It largely depends of course, on how much the reduction in income is going to be offset by any contractual reductions in player salaries, but while we may not end up in Bolton levels of trouble, I can't see our income being sufficient to rebuild the team properly next year. It's not like we have lots of saleable assets either.
And here it is
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~5502832,00.html
Yes the Mail and the Mirror. The last bastions of da truth.
Yes the Mail and the Mirror. The last bastions of da truth.
Why would Lerner put a credible Board together and then continue to stick his nose in to affairs?
My sense is that Hollis will go to the owner with a business plan that includes investment estimates for the season. They will agree the figures and Hollis will be mandated to deliver them. The Board will - I'm sure - not be prepared to operate if Lerner has to sign everything off; it is simply untenable for it to work in some way that effectively handcuffs their decision-making capacity.
Why would Lerner put a credible Board together and then continue to stick his nose in to affairs?
My sense is that Hollis will go to the owner with a business plan that includes investment estimates for the season. They will agree the figures and Hollis will be mandated to deliver them. The Board will - I'm sure - not be prepared to operate if Lerner has to sign everything off; it is simply untenable for it to work in some way that effectively handcuffs their decision-making capacity.
You mean run it as proper businesses are run in the real world ? Would be nice...
Why would Lerner put a credible Board together and then continue to stick his nose in to affairs?
My sense is that Hollis will go to the owner with a business plan that includes investment estimates for the season. They will agree the figures and Hollis will be mandated to deliver them. The Board will - I'm sure - not be prepared to operate if Lerner has to sign everything off; it is simply untenable for it to work in some way that effectively handcuffs their decision-making capacity.
You mean run it as proper businesses are run in the real world ? Would be nice...
I'm no Randy Lerner sycophant but no football club could ever be run as a proper business.
Why would Lerner put a credible Board together and then continue to stick his nose in to affairs?
My sense is that Hollis will go to the owner with a business plan that includes investment estimates for the season. They will agree the figures and Hollis will be mandated to deliver them. The Board will - I'm sure - not be prepared to operate if Lerner has to sign everything off; it is simply untenable for it to work in some way that effectively handcuffs their decision-making capacity.
You mean run it as proper businesses are run in the real world ? Would be nice...
I'm no Randy Lerner sycophant but no football club could ever be run as a proper business.
Wonder if he'll even bother releasing a statement about our relegation. An apology to fans would be a good start.
Why would Lerner put a credible Board together and then continue to stick his nose in to affairs?Was this unbelievably prescient, given the subsequent resignation news?!
My sense is that Hollis will go to the owner with a business plan that includes investment estimates for the season. They will agree the figures and Hollis will be mandated to deliver them. The Board will - I'm sure - not be prepared to operate if Lerner has to sign everything off; it is simply untenable for it to work in some way that effectively handcuffs their decision-making capacity.
In a month's time we may all be wishing that we could have had a Moyes / Pearson as Manager!
Is he OK, do you think?
In a month's time we may all be wishing that we could have had a Moyes / Pearson as Manager!
Even Virgin media are laughing at us. The wankers.
https://www.facebook.com/virginmedia/photos/a.278551958824836.84008.197718073574892/1293305264016162/?type=3&comment_id=1293371270676228&reply_comment_id=1293377970675558¬if_t=photo_reply¬if_id=1461070371325432
Wonder if he'll even bother releasing a statement about our relegation. An apology to fans would be a good start.
The piss-taking doesn't rile me (it might under normal circumstances) because all the jibes are essentially accurate. Re this one: Gobby Cabbage mentioned it disparagingly last night on the R5L commentary from Stoke - 23 fu**ing goals all season!! It's absolutely laughable.Even Virgin media are laughing at us. The wankers.
https://www.facebook.com/virginmedia/photos/a.278551958824836.84008.197718073574892/1293305264016162/?type=3&comment_id=1293371270676228&reply_comment_id=1293377970675558¬if_t=photo_reply¬if_id=1461070371325432
He's turned us into something we've never been before in all my time, and that's a bona fide laughing stock.
Anyone still think it's unfair if I call him a c***?
When the fuck is Lerner going to make a statement? Everything crashing around his ears, and nothing. An ignorant coward. A really odd bloke who's never engaged with the fan base.
Anyone still think it's unfair if I call him a c***?
No, he's a dodgy owner and a danger to the club. He needs to leave asap. There needs to be a step up in the protesting should this skulking coward still be ruling from afar next season.
I've come to the conclusion that Lerner is so thin skinned, the sight of the banners again at the weekend have resulted in him making an about turn. How many times did the General have to go running to the press every time they questioned Lerner? The man is weak and as soon as the big boys start telling him the new rules he runs back to Mommy with his ball.
Lerner is basically a gigantic, incompetent man-baby.
Hiding the other side of the atlantic, prone to enormous mood swings, incapable of putting a meaningful sentence together, he's opted to communicate with us purely via kicks in the bollocks as he tramples over the club's pride.
And where is General Krulak these days, I wonder? Except for being one of the few people left on the Villa board, obviously.
I'm 47, have cared about the club for about 40 of those years, and have never felt as low about Villa as i have these last few days.
Everything about the club is wrong - absolutely everything.
Even the stuff about closing the upper trinity is monumentally depressing. A club with a vision or something that could be called ambition would have done everything it could to fill that ground, not make it smaller.
We look like we are settling in for a long stay in the Championship. Which is wrong, if only because we look more likely to wind up in League One under this unpredictable fucking lunatic.
Lerner is basically a gigantic, incompetent man-baby.
Hiding the other side of the atlantic, prone to enormous mood swings, incapable of putting a meaningful sentence together, he's opted to communicate with us purely via kicks in the bollocks as he tramples over the club's pride.
And where is General Krulak these days, I wonder? Except for being one of the few people left on the Villa board, obviously.
I'm 47, have cared about the club for about 40 of those years, and have never felt as low about Villa as i have these last few days.
Everything about the club is wrong - absolutely everything.
Even the stuff about closing the upper trinity is monumentally depressing. A club with a vision or something that could be called ambition would have done everything it could to fill that ground, not make it smaller.
We look like we are settling in for a long stay in the Championship. Which is wrong, if only because we look more likely to wind up in League One under this unpredictable fucking lunatic.
I have this feeling that eventually randy will address the media about the lack of willingness to sell the club with the words 'because the king of the potato people won't let me'.
Dante is a very intelligent fellow poster and hardly deserves that level of calumny.Lerner is basically a gigantic, incompetent man-baby.
Hiding the other side of the atlantic, prone to enormous mood swings, incapable of putting a meaningful sentence together, he's opted to communicate with us purely via kicks in the bollocks as he tramples over the club's pride.
And where is General Krulak these days, I wonder? Except for being one of the few people left on the Villa board, obviously.
I'm 47, have cared about the club for about 40 of those years, and have never felt as low about Villa as i have these last few days.
Everything about the club is wrong - absolutely everything.
Even the stuff about closing the upper trinity is monumentally depressing. A club with a vision or something that could be called ambition would have done everything it could to fill that ground, not make it smaller.
We look like we are settling in for a long stay in the Championship. Which is wrong, if only because we look more likely to wind up in League One under this unpredictable fucking lunatic.
We're like the opposite of aim the stars and you might hit the moon.
We're more aim for the ground and drill straight through it with one of those machines they used for The Channel Tunnel.
It's feels like we're just passing into the second ring of Dante's Inferno.
I have this feeling that eventually randy will address the media about the lack of willingness to sell the club with the words 'because the king of the potato people won't let me'.
Lerner is basically a gigantic, incompetent man-baby.
Hiding the other side of the atlantic, prone to enormous mood swings, incapable of putting a meaningful sentence together, he's opted to communicate with us purely via kicks in the bollocks as he tramples over the club's pride.
And where is General Krulak these days, I wonder? Except for being one of the few people left on the Villa board, obviously.
I'm 47, have cared about the club for about 40 of those years, and have never felt as low about Villa as i have these last few days.
Everything about the club is wrong - absolutely everything.
Even the stuff about closing the upper trinity is monumentally depressing. A club with a vision or something that could be called ambition would have done everything it could to fill that ground, not make it smaller.
We look like we are settling in for a long stay in the Championship. Which is wrong, if only because we look more likely to wind up in League One under this unpredictable fucking lunatic.
Whatever turns you on, PWS.I have this feeling that eventually randy will address the media about the lack of willingness to sell the club with the words 'because the king of the potato people won't let me'.
I'll believe him if he's wearing a red and white check gingham dress.
Dante is a very intelligent fellow poster and hardly deserves that level of calumny.Lerner is basically a gigantic, incompetent man-baby.
Hiding the other side of the atlantic, prone to enormous mood swings, incapable of putting a meaningful sentence together, he's opted to communicate with us purely via kicks in the bollocks as he tramples over the club's pride.
And where is General Krulak these days, I wonder? Except for being one of the few people left on the Villa board, obviously.
I'm 47, have cared about the club for about 40 of those years, and have never felt as low about Villa as i have these last few days.
Everything about the club is wrong - absolutely everything.
Even the stuff about closing the upper trinity is monumentally depressing. A club with a vision or something that could be called ambition would have done everything it could to fill that ground, not make it smaller.
We look like we are settling in for a long stay in the Championship. Which is wrong, if only because we look more likely to wind up in League One under this unpredictable fucking lunatic.
We're like the opposite of aim the stars and you might hit the moon.
We're more aim for the ground and drill straight through it with one of those machines they used for The Channel Tunnel.
It's feels like we're just passing into the second ring of Dante's Inferno.
Has pelty been on lately?
Dante is a very intelligent fellow poster and hardly deserves that level of calumny.Lerner is basically a gigantic, incompetent man-baby.
Hiding the other side of the atlantic, prone to enormous mood swings, incapable of putting a meaningful sentence together, he's opted to communicate with us purely via kicks in the bollocks as he tramples over the club's pride.
And where is General Krulak these days, I wonder? Except for being one of the few people left on the Villa board, obviously.
I'm 47, have cared about the club for about 40 of those years, and have never felt as low about Villa as i have these last few days.
Everything about the club is wrong - absolutely everything.
Even the stuff about closing the upper trinity is monumentally depressing. A club with a vision or something that could be called ambition would have done everything it could to fill that ground, not make it smaller.
We look like we are settling in for a long stay in the Championship. Which is wrong, if only because we look more likely to wind up in League One under this unpredictable fucking lunatic.
We're like the opposite of aim the stars and you might hit the moon.
We're more aim for the ground and drill straight through it with one of those machines they used for The Channel Tunnel.
It's feels like we're just passing into the second ring of Dante's Inferno.
If I'd mixed the word order up a little bit then you might have been right!
Anyway I thought transition from 1st ring (Limbo) to 2nd ring (Lust) was about right for the club.
Gabby is ahead of the curve there as he's already passed through the 3rd ring (Gluttony)and must soon be finished with the 4th ring (Greed), but in an impressive display of achieving duality in his metaphysical state he's also still inhabiting the first ring.
The fans meanwhile are split (as ususal) most residing in the 5th ring (anger), but some have progressed almost to the 7th ring (violence)
It appears that Lerner oscillates (or maybe vacillates would be more appropriate) between the 8th ring (Fraud) and the 9th ring (Treachery)
The 6th ring (Heresy) is currently unoccupied as everyone agrees he needs to go.
I have this feeling that eventually randy will address the media about the lack of willingness to sell the club with the words 'because the king of the potato people won't let me'.
I have this feeling that eventually randy will address the media about the lack of willingness to sell the club with the words 'because the king of the potato people won't let me'.
So that's who this Paddy Reilly is?
I have this feeling that eventually randy will address the media about the lack of willingness to sell the club with the words 'because the king of the potato people won't let me'.
So that's who this Paddy Reilly is?
Racist.
Has pelty been on lately?
Maybe he's taken his own advice, doesn't like it so gone to 'support' somebody else.
Even the egg and spoon?
Does that mean I have to give up chips?I have this feeling that eventually randy will address the media about the lack of willingness to sell the club with the words 'because the king of the potato people won't let me'.
So that's who this Paddy Reilly is?
Krulak and his puppet master have been shown up for what they are.
They won't be communicating with the fans anytime soon.
They are now in full retreat without the dignity or ability to raise themselves for any skirmish or to face the situation they have created.
These are the sort of people that only come on to the battlefield when fighting is over to shoot the wounded.
Cowards.
A BindiKrulak and his puppet master have been shown up for what they are.
They won't be communicating with the fans anytime soon.
They are now in full retreat without the dignity or ability to raise themselves for any skirmish or to face the situation they have created.
These are the sort of people that only come on to the battlefield when fighting is over to shoot the wounded.
Cowards.
What's that weird red dot hovering over your forehead?
Lerner is basically a gigantic, incompetent man-baby.
Hiding the other side of the atlantic, prone to enormous mood swings, incapable of putting a meaningful sentence together, he's opted to communicate with us purely via kicks in the bollocks as he tramples over the club's pride.
And where is General Krulak these days, I wonder? Except for being one of the few people left on the Villa board, obviously.
I'm 47, have cared about the club for about 40 of those years, and have never felt as low about Villa as i have these last few days.
Everything about the club is wrong - absolutely everything.
Even the stuff about closing the upper trinity is monumentally depressing. A club with a vision or something that could be called ambition would have done everything it could to fill that ground, not make it smaller.
We look like we are settling in for a long stay in the Championship. Which is wrong, if only because we look more likely to wind up in League One under this unpredictable fucking lunatic.
Well said, apart from the bit about the General, I dont care where he is, the further away the better. I don't think I could bare hearing more worthless platitudes. Nothing personal in that.
Lerner is basically a gigantic, incompetent man-baby.
Hiding the other side of the atlantic, prone to enormous mood swings, incapable of putting a meaningful sentence together, he's opted to communicate with us purely via kicks in the bollocks as he tramples over the club's pride.
And where is General Krulak these days, I wonder? Except for being one of the few people left on the Villa board, obviously.
I'm 47, have cared about the club for about 40 of those years, and have never felt as low about Villa as i have these last few days.
Everything about the club is wrong - absolutely everything.
Even the stuff about closing the upper trinity is monumentally depressing. A club with a vision or something that could be called ambition would have done everything it could to fill that ground, not make it smaller.
We look like we are settling in for a long stay in the Championship. Which is wrong, if only because we look more likely to wind up in League One under this unpredictable fucking lunatic.
Well said, apart from the bit about the General, I dont care where he is, the further away the better. I don't think I could bare hearing more worthless platitudes. Nothing personal in that.
Have to disagree, I have far more respect for the General than I'll ever have for Lerner. I actually think he's a great leader thrown into a circus that he felt through loyalty to oblige. I don't know what happened but maybe Lerner's father spent too much time traveling, building up his business empire than he spent at home and Lerner needs that masculine crutch that is the General.
The General's only real problem is he knew next to nothing about football. He tried as much as any novice to understand but in the end his military record didn't mean anything to passionate football fans. I can't blame him for that. He's been Lerner's babysitter (due to loyalty to his father) for far too long.
Feel free to slag him off but at least he had a pair of balls. Lerner is as Paulie said, a man-baby. He's full of good intentions but hasn't a fucking clue when it comes to real life, as passionate of the Villa as he may be. He sadly lives in the world he created.
Gutless. Spineless. Coward.
I'm calling you out General Charles C. Krulak.
I know you read this board.
You're boss isn't man enough to communicate.
Are you man enough?
I repeat: Gutless. Spineless. Coward.
Any reply?
Lerner is basically a gigantic, incompetent man-baby.
Hiding the other side of the atlantic, prone to enormous mood swings, incapable of putting a meaningful sentence together, he's opted to communicate with us purely via kicks in the bollocks as he tramples over the club's pride.
And where is General Krulak these days, I wonder? Except for being one of the few people left on the Villa board, obviously.
I'm 47, have cared about the club for about 40 of those years, and have never felt as low about Villa as i have these last few days.
Everything about the club is wrong - absolutely everything.
Even the stuff about closing the upper trinity is monumentally depressing. A club with a vision or something that could be called ambition would have done everything it could to fill that ground, not make it smaller.
We look like we are settling in for a long stay in the Championship. Which is wrong, if only because we look more likely to wind up in League One under this unpredictable fucking lunatic.
Well said, apart from the bit about the General, I dont care where he is, the further away the better. I don't think I could bare hearing more worthless platitudes. Nothing personal in that.
Have to disagree, I have far more respect for the General than I'll ever have for Lerner. I actually think he's a great leader thrown into a circus that he felt through loyalty to oblige. I don't know what happened but maybe Lerner's father spent too much time traveling, building up his business empire than he spent at home and Lerner needs that masculine crutch that is the General.
The General's only real problem is he knew next to nothing about football. He tried as much as any novice to understand but in the end his military record didn't mean anything to passionate football fans. I can't blame him for that. He's been Lerner's babysitter (due to loyalty to his father) for far too long.
Feel free to slag him off but at least he had a pair of balls. Lerner is as Paulie said, a man-baby. He's full of good intentions but hasn't a fucking clue when it comes to real life, as passionate of the Villa as he may be. He sadly lives in the world he created.
But would you want him back around telling us not to worry our silly little heads about stuff as they know what they are doing?
I admire the man and his past achievements but still want him nowhere near the club again.
Krulak and his puppet master have been shown up for what they are.
They won't be communicating with the fans anytime soon.
They are now in full retreat without the dignity or ability to raise themselves for any skirmish or to face the situation they have created.
These are the sort of people that only come on to the battlefield when fighting is over to shoot the wounded.
Cowards.
And if that is true he will have no choice other than to cut his losses massively to sell up. By the way was I dreaming yesterday or did I see a quote from Ellis saying the club was valued at £115m when he sold it? Lerner won't even get that for it now.You can value anything at anything, but its worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it.
you would be surprised, but I am not about to give you ammunition.Krulak and his puppet master have been shown up for what they are.
They won't be communicating with the fans anytime soon.
They are now in full retreat without the dignity or ability to raise themselves for any skirmish or to face the situation they have created.
These are the sort of people that only come on to the battlefield when fighting is over to shoot the wounded.
Cowards.
And the bravest thing you've ever done is?
you would be surprised, but I am not about to give you ammunition.Krulak and his puppet master have been shown up for what they are.
They won't be communicating with the fans anytime soon.
They are now in full retreat without the dignity or ability to raise themselves for any skirmish or to face the situation they have created.
These are the sort of people that only come on to the battlefield when fighting is over to shoot the wounded.
Cowards.
And the bravest thing you've ever done is?
i guess picking on posters for being angry is pretty brave.you would be surprised, but I am not about to give you ammunition.Krulak and his puppet master have been shown up for what they are.
They won't be communicating with the fans anytime soon.
They are now in full retreat without the dignity or ability to raise themselves for any skirmish or to face the situation they have created.
These are the sort of people that only come on to the battlefield when fighting is over to shoot the wounded.
Cowards.
And the bravest thing you've ever done is?
I don't need any. You've already said more than enough.
i guess picking on posters for being angry is pretty brave.you would be surprised, but I am not about to give you ammunition.Krulak and his puppet master have been shown up for what they are.
They won't be communicating with the fans anytime soon.
They are now in full retreat without the dignity or ability to raise themselves for any skirmish or to face the situation they have created.
These are the sort of people that only come on to the battlefield when fighting is over to shoot the wounded.
Cowards.
And the bravest thing you've ever done is?
I don't need any. You've already said more than enough.
Dave, I am finding it difficult not to get upset by what is happening to our club.i guess picking on posters for being angry is pretty brave.you would be surprised, but I am not about to give you ammunition.Krulak and his puppet master have been shown up for what they are.
They won't be communicating with the fans anytime soon.
They are now in full retreat without the dignity or ability to raise themselves for any skirmish or to face the situation they have created.
These are the sort of people that only come on to the battlefield when fighting is over to shoot the wounded.
Cowards.
And the bravest thing you've ever done is?
I don't need any. You've already said more than enough.
If you don't like being called out for what you said then don't say it.
I would call Krulak a lot of things, but considering his exploits in his chosen career, "gutless", "spineless" and "coward" would not be amongst them.
Krulak may well be very brave on the battlefield but to be honest I'm not interested in that. He and Lerner were certainly not brave when they vanished from the firing line when it went tits up at Aston Villa. That was cowardly alright.Lerner is a thin skinned baby incapable of facing the consequence of his actions, hence his constant hiding behind the sofa. I just want him gone, no matter the personal cost to him, this football business is too big and too rough for this spoiled man child. Lerner be gone.
And if that is true he will have no choice other than to cut his losses massively to sell up. By the way was I dreaming yesterday or did I see a quote from Ellis saying the club was valued at £115m when he sold it? Lerner won't even get that for it now.
Krulak may well be very brave on the battlefield but to be honest I'm not interested in that. He and Lerner were certainly not brave when they vanished from the firing line when it went tits up at Aston Villa. That was cowardly alright.Yet people on here were saying it was pointless him continuing and counter productive. So doing exactly what many were suggesting is now cowardly? Get a fucking grip.
Krulak may well be very brave on the battlefield but to be honest I'm not interested in that.
These are the sort of people that only come on to the battlefield when fighting is over to shoot the wounded.
Cowards.
I'd say the General is just following orders. It's just a shame that it's Lerner who's giving them.
The club made no effort in January to stay in the Premier League and everything now seems to be pointing at a lack of desire to return. The owner is showing no fight and it's no wonder this attitude has spread to the pitch.Regarding the redundancies, I saw some figures the other day comparing our headcount with other PL clubs and we have been massively overblown. The loss of employees was, I'm afraid inevitable.
The redundancy numbers being mentioned are frightening and will no doubt be costly in terms of pay offs. If we needed this amount of staff to run a Premier League club wouldn't we be needing them again in 12 months time if the club had any hope or desire to get immediate promotion?
We not just dropping a division, we're closing down by the looks of it.
It was quoted in £££ by Ellis in a recent article in whcih he was expressing his disappointment.And if that is true he will have no choice other than to cut his losses massively to sell up. By the way was I dreaming yesterday or did I see a quote from Ellis saying the club was valued at £115m when he sold it? Lerner won't even get that for it now.
It might have been $115m as that equated to about £65m at the time. Currently, the $115m would equate to about £80m.
It might have been worth £115 million at flotation but we all know what happened after that.
you are right, my comments were inappropriate and I apologise for any offence.
These are the sort of people that only come on to the battlefield when fighting is over to shoot the wounded.
Cowards.
Do you know how General Krulak earned his Silver Star?
Hint - it wasn't through shooting wounded on the battlefield when the battle is over or for being a coward.
you are right, my comments were inappropriate and I apologise for any offence.
These are the sort of people that only come on to the battlefield when fighting is over to shoot the wounded.
Cowards.
Do you know how General Krulak earned his Silver Star?
Hint - it wasn't through shooting wounded on the battlefield when the battle is over or for being a coward.
Spare a thought for those people who have lost thier jobs though.
i have done something which is pretty rare on here and admitted that I was wrong and apologised , if that isn't enough for you, so be it.you are right, my comments were inappropriate and I apologise for any offence.
These are the sort of people that only come on to the battlefield when fighting is over to shoot the wounded.
Cowards.
Do you know how General Krulak earned his Silver Star?
Hint - it wasn't through shooting wounded on the battlefield when the battle is over or for being a coward.
Spare a thought for those people who have lost thier jobs though.
I'd say insulting and offensive. Not sure what the jobs have to do with it.
i guess picking on posters for being angry is pretty brave.you would be surprised, but I am not about to give you ammunition.Krulak and his puppet master have been shown up for what they are.
They won't be communicating with the fans anytime soon.
They are now in full retreat without the dignity or ability to raise themselves for any skirmish or to face the situation they have created.
And the bravest thing you've ever done is?
I don't need any. You've already said more than enough.
If you don't like being called out for what you said then don't say it.
i have done something which is pretty rare on here and admitted that I was wrong and apologised , if that isn't enough for you, so be it.you are right, my comments were inappropriate and I apologise for any offence.
These are the sort of people that only come on to the battlefield when fighting is over to shoot the wounded.
Cowards.
Do you know how General Krulak earned his Silver Star?
Hint - it wasn't through shooting wounded on the battlefield when the battle is over or for being a coward.
Spare a thought for those people who have lost thier jobs though.
I'd say insulting and offensive. Not sure what the jobs have to do with it.
I will leave it there.
Spare a thought for those people who have lost thier jobs though.Hear hear
If you knew the entire story, and the actions of Bernstein and King, you might understand why thing went down the way they did. The offensive emails are the tip of the iceberg. I have long stated that I think RL has made some huge mistakes along the way and think he has more than his share of the blame in this horror story. How can he not? But there are two sides to every story and that is certainly the case in this latest episode; in this particular instance, I think Randy showed a great amount of restraint, believe it or not, prior to the firings resignations, and an equal share in the last day or so after these two showed their class by airing it all to the press. How some here on the boards can not read the tea leaves and see just what sort of men these two are for behaving in this disgraceful manner is beyond me. I suppose there is so much hatred of RL that they cannot see clearly, and I get that even if I think it is only partially fair, but if airing dirty laundry in the press does not say something to you about the egos of these two "men," I am not sure what to say.
This narrative that my father up and left when the going got tough is unfair as well - no surprise I would say that - the timing looked bad, but the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent. To say this took all of his time is not an understatement and this is why he left, plain and simple. It was certainly not because he was cowardly or felt shame in some way, which is a pathetic suggestion. Also, he has never been and will never be involved in football operations, so for those who think his presence on the board is somehow negatively affecting football decisions, this is not a role he fills, and rightly so.
I am not really going to say more about this, but I thought some of the comments towards him were unnecessary and I would simply say that the boardroom issues are more thorny than some have suggested, though others have been fairly close to the truth, but not nearly cynical enough about the actions of the two former board members.
who's your father?
who's your father?
His dad is General Krulak.
Scum?
Scum?who's your father?
His dad is General Krulak.
Scum?who's your father?
His dad is General Krulak.
What do you mean by that?
Pelty, aren't you partly engaging in the same behavior you profess taking offence at? Referring to Bernstein and King as "men" along with other insinuations.
I think you underestimate the credibility-deficit Randy, and even your father, faces with the fans. If you are to convince us the blame lies with the departed you are going to have to be more specific.
If you knew the entire story, and the actions of Bernstein and King, you might understand why thing went down the way they did. The offensive emails are the tip of the iceberg. I have long stated that I think RL has made some huge mistakes along the way and think he has more than his share of the blame in this horror story. How can he not? But there are two sides to every story and that is certainly the case in this latest episode; in this particular instance, I think Randy showed a great amount of restraint, believe it or not, prior to the firings resignations, and an equal share in the last day or so after these two showed their class by airing it all to the press. How some here on the boards can not read the tea leaves and see just what sort of men these two are for behaving in this disgraceful manner is beyond me. I suppose there is so much hatred of RL that they cannot see clearly, and I get that even if I think it is only partially fair, but if airing dirty laundry in the press does not say something to you about the egos of these two "men," I am not sure what to say.
This narrative that my father up and left when the going got tough is unfair as well - no surprise I would say that - the timing looked bad, but the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent. To say this took all of his time is not an understatement and this is why he left, plain and simple. It was certainly not because he was cowardly or felt shame in some way, which is a pathetic suggestion. Also, he has never been and will never be involved in football operations, so for those who think his presence on the board is somehow negatively affecting football decisions, this is not a role he fills, and rightly so.
I am not really going to say more about this, but I thought some of the comments towards him were unnecessary and I would simply say that the boardroom issues are more thorny than some have suggested, though others have been fairly close to the truth, but not nearly cynical enough about the actions of the two former board members.
I'm sorry Pelty but no-one is really going to believe someone like King in particular criticised Lerner in terms that could be called offensive in these emails. They were both asked to conduct a review of the problems at Aston Villa and implement improvements. If they found the major root cause and continuation of the problems was the owner and discussed this privately, then it's a)hardly surprising and b) part of their remit. Lerner may put a high value on loyalty but at their level of operating, its not surprising they weren't prepared to be Lerner yes men
Pelty - excuse me if I say I don't give two shits about how your dad saved an ailing college, 1000's of miles away.
It was obvioulsy given bigger priority over saving our ailing football club.
the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent.
Pelty,
You believe it's dishonourable for these 'men' to air their dirty laundry in the press. But somebody needs to let us know what's going on. We deserve that much. The fans have remained loyal despite all the crap thrown their way year after year, and all we've had are a couple of detached and surreal statements from Lerner, some hearsay, and a massive wall of silence.
Meanwhile the club has fallen apart, with no sign of being put back together again. Isn't hiding away somewhere across the Atlantic while your football club disintegrates dishonourable? 500 jobs are being lost, for Christ's sake, and not a word.
It's time to come clean. What the fuck is going on?
Pelty, we are a laughing stock. I don't care about blame any more as it doesn't matter. All I want to know is: when will it end?
Pelty, you mentioned that your father has no footballing remit at Aston Villa. What is his remit?To read other peoples emails?
Pelty,
You believe it's dishonourable for these 'men' to air their dirty laundry in the press. But somebody needs to let us know what's going on. We deserve that much. The fans have remained loyal despite all the crap thrown their way year after year, and all we've had are a couple of detached and surreal statements from Lerner, some hearsay, and a massive wall of silence.
Meanwhile the club has fallen apart, with no sign of being put back together again. Isn't hiding away somewhere across the Atlantic while your football club disintegrates dishonourable? 500 jobs are being lost, for Christ's sake, and not a word.
It's time to come clean. What the fuck is going on?
Exactly. How are we supposed to feel towards Krulak and Lerner when the only information we get from the club are Chinese whispers and tempting half stories from Krulak's son. Krulak, he was all mouth on here when things were going well and he was happy to reply to the sycophants who thought he was wonderful. I don't care how many medals he's won, good luck to him for that, I just care that he's been a part of making this club the absolute laughing stock that it has become. I'm sorry, but he can fuck off
Pelty, you mentioned that your father has no footballing remit at Aston Villa. What is his remit?
Pelty
If you have any influence over either your Fathers involvement with the club or Randy himself then please tell him a statement from the owner himself is needed ASAP. There are literally thousands of loyal fans over here that are very, very worried about their clubs future and the fact we are a national laughing stock.
It could start with a simple apology followed by "I will sort this mess out........."
During this or any other crisis you need good management, good communication and above all else faith in those with the task at hand
I think everyone is more than aware that there are two sides to the story. I am also in full agreement that it does look a bit odd shall I say that letters have been leaked and then King goes on Bloomberg (?) publicly calling for the sale to go through quickly whilst both men have now firmly pointed the finger at Lerner.
I don't think they have acted professionally at all.
But...
name one journalist over here that has not highlighted Randy Lerner as being the problem at Villa. There is a big big problem behind the scenes that has manifested itself into a shambolic club with no sense of direction of one hopeless appointment after another. It appears from stories on the web, and from posters here from the US, that Lerner's tenure of the Cleveland Browns was very similar.
At last it seemed that Lerner was going to take a back step and the appointed Chairman and the newly formed football board would have free reign in putting the thing that we care about the most, the football side, right. We expect that stuff that we don't see to be managed correctly, efficiently, and with due care.
It appeared that the appointments of Bernstein, King, Little, and Bevington was an amazing coup for the club and saw us finally grasping what was needed. These people are leaders in their own areas of expertise and have more business acumen dripping from them in terms of how to either build the foundations of a football club, how to make it successful, how to broadly move it to a level where it is flourishing and producing on relative terms, and how to link the club with different areas of the finance or business sector to encourage more partnerships for the club's benefit.
And Pelty seems fit to denigrate their stature as "These two men" without seemingly realising that "these two men" were doing one thing and one thing alone. The very best for Aston Villa. Is Lerner doing that? No, he is protecting his wealth (and you could argue rightly so). Is Krulak doing that? No, he is protecting Lerner and doing his bidding.
No, we don't know what has gone on and how Bernstein & King have behaved. But considering what Lerner has done to us short of grabbing Lerner by the throat whilst pulling a knife on him whilst the other beats up his wife and kids, there is going to be very very little support here for Lerner if two beastly men have identified him as being the problem.
Pelty, your argument is like the owner of the Big Top being annoyed at the acrobat who is complaining that he won't supply a net to stop him falling to his death . The cancer here is not Bernstein & King. It's Lerner. if anyone is behaving in a disgraceful manner it's not the people who genuinely care for Aston villa, it's those that don't. Neither you, Krulak, nor Lerner do. We were tricked when you rode into town hooting and a-hollering shooting from the hip with your yee-ha's but it turned out to be smoke and mirrors.
It’s not us who is failing to see clearly. It's not Randy who is showing a great deal of restraint. It's not Randy who is showing any signs of "class". It's not Randy who is humiliated, embarrassed, outraged, hurt, despondent, and has the emotional torment of seeing us turned into a laughing stock. That's us. The fans. The real fans. The fans who care about this club. The fans that will be here long after Lerner, and you, have gone. The fans, like King, who actually care about this club and restoring it to its rightful place. The fans who have been held in such contempt for years now. The fans who have little truck with nonsensical responses that are designed for us to side with the person who is killing our club against the 2 are trying to save it. The fans who want Lerner out. You may say that we don't know how or what Lerner and his associates really feel, well we watch every Saturday and that's enough. Go now. The lot of you.
Pelty what the fuck is the point of asking people to do a review and then throw your toys out when you don't like the answer?
I look forward to your narrative on it.
I think everyone is more than aware that there are two sides to the story. I am also in full agreement that it does look a bit odd shall I say that letters have been leaked and then King goes on Bloomberg (?) publicly calling for the sale to go through quickly whilst both men have now firmly pointed the finger at Lerner.
I don't think they have acted professionally at all.
But...
name one journalist over here that has not highlighted Randy Lerner as being the problem at Villa. There is a big big problem behind the scenes that has manifested itself into a shambolic club with no sense of direction of one hopeless appointment after another. It appears from stories on the web, and from posters here from the US, that Lerner's tenure of the Cleveland Browns was very similar.
At last it seemed that Lerner was going to take a back step and the appointed Chairman and the newly formed football board would have free reign in putting the thing that we care about the most, the football side, right. We expect that stuff that we don't see to be managed correctly, efficiently, and with due care.
It appeared that the appointments of Bernstein, King, Little, and Bevington was an amazing coup for the club and saw us finally grasping what was needed. These people are leaders in their own areas of expertise and have more business acumen dripping from them in terms of how to either build the foundations of a football club, how to make it successful, how to broadly move it to a level where it is flourishing and producing on relative terms, and how to link the club with different areas of the finance or business sector to encourage more partnerships for the club's benefit.
And Pelty seems fit to denigrate their stature as "These two men" without seemingly realising that "these two men" were doing one thing and one thing alone. The very best for Aston Villa. Is Lerner doing that? No, he is protecting his wealth (and you could argue rightly so). Is Krulak doing that? No, he is protecting Lerner and doing his bidding.
No, we don't know what has gone on and how Bernstein & King have behaved. But considering what Lerner has done to us short of grabbing Lerner by the throat whilst pulling a knife on him whilst the other beats up his wife and kids, there is going to be very very little support here for Lerner if two beastly men have identified him as being the problem.
Pelty, your argument is like the owner of the Big Top being annoyed at the acrobat who is complaining that he won't supply a net to stop him falling to his death . The cancer here is not Bernstein & King. It's Lerner. if anyone is behaving in a disgraceful manner it's not the people who genuinely care for Aston villa, it's those that don't. Neither you, Krulak, nor Lerner do. We were tricked when you rode into town hooting and a-hollering shooting from the hip with your yee-ha's but it turned out to be smoke and mirrors.
It’s not us who is failing to see clearly. It's not Randy who is showing a great deal of restraint. It's not Randy who is showing any signs of "class". It's not Randy who is humiliated, embarrassed, outraged, hurt, despondent, and has the emotional torment of seeing us turned into a laughing stock. That's us. The fans. The real fans. The fans who care about this club. The fans that will be here long after Lerner, and you, have gone. The fans, like King, who actually care about this club and restoring it to its rightful place. The fans who have been held in such contempt for years now. The fans who have little truck with nonsensical responses that are designed for us to side with the person who is killing our club against the 2 are trying to save it. The fans who want Lerner out. You may say that we don't know how or what Lerner and his associates really feel, well we watch every Saturday and that's enough. Go now. The lot of you.
I think everyone is more than aware that there are two sides to the story. I am also in full agreement that it does look a bit odd shall I say that letters have been leaked and then King goes on Bloomberg (?) publicly calling for the sale to go through quickly whilst both men have now firmly pointed the finger at Lerner.
I don't think they have acted professionally at all.
But...
name one journalist over here that has not highlighted Randy Lerner as being the problem at Villa. There is a big big problem behind the scenes that has manifested itself into a shambolic club with no sense of direction of one hopeless appointment after another. It appears from stories on the web, and from posters here from the US, that Lerner's tenure of the Cleveland Browns was very similar.
At last it seemed that Lerner was going to take a back step and the appointed Chairman and the newly formed football board would have free reign in putting the thing that we care about the most, the football side, right. We expect that stuff that we don't see to be managed correctly, efficiently, and with due care.
It appeared that the appointments of Bernstein, King, Little, and Bevington was an amazing coup for the club and saw us finally grasping what was needed. These people are leaders in their own areas of expertise and have more business acumen dripping from them in terms of how to either build the foundations of a football club, how to make it successful, how to broadly move it to a level where it is flourishing and producing on relative terms, and how to link the club with different areas of the finance or business sector to encourage more partnerships for the club's benefit.
And Pelty seems fit to denigrate their stature as "These two men" without seemingly realising that "these two men" were doing one thing and one thing alone. The very best for Aston Villa. Is Lerner doing that? No, he is protecting his wealth (and you could argue rightly so). Is Krulak doing that? No, he is protecting Lerner and doing his bidding.
No, we don't know what has gone on and how Bernstein & King have behaved. But considering what Lerner has done to us short of grabbing Lerner by the throat whilst pulling a knife on him whilst the other beats up his wife and kids, there is going to be very very little support here for Lerner if two beastly men have identified him as being the problem.
Pelty, your argument is like the owner of the Big Top being annoyed at the acrobat who is complaining that he won't supply a net to stop him falling to his death . The cancer here is not Bernstein & King. It's Lerner. if anyone is behaving in a disgraceful manner it's not the people who genuinely care for Aston villa, it's those that don't. Neither you, Krulak, nor Lerner do. We were tricked when you rode into town hooting and a-hollering shooting from the hip with your yee-ha's but it turned out to be smoke and mirrors.
It’s not us who is failing to see clearly. It's not Randy who is showing a great deal of restraint. It's not Randy who is showing any signs of "class". It's not Randy who is humiliated, embarrassed, outraged, hurt, despondent, and has the emotional torment of seeing us turned into a laughing stock. That's us. The fans. The real fans. The fans who care about this club. The fans that will be here long after Lerner, and you, have gone. The fans, like King, who actually care about this club and restoring it to its rightful place. The fans who have been held in such contempt for years now. The fans who have little truck with nonsensical responses that are designed for us to side with the person who is killing our club against the 2 are trying to save it. The fans who want Lerner out. You may say that we don't know how or what Lerner and his associates really feel, well we watch every Saturday and that's enough. Go now. The lot of you.
Top class post Peter.
Almost as though peter w is actually SVC.That's very unfair. Peter has constructed his argument with great thought and accuracy SVC spouts total bollix.
Almost as though peter w is actually SVC.That's very unfair. Peter has constructed his argument with great thought and accuracy SVC spouts total bollix.
If you knew the entire story, and the actions of Bernstein and King, you might understand why thing went down the way they did. The offensive emails are the tip of the iceberg. I have long stated that I think RL has made some huge mistakes along the way and think he has more than his share of the blame in this horror story. How can he not? But there are two sides to every story and that is certainly the case in this latest episode; in this particular instance, I think Randy showed a great amount of restraint, believe it or not, prior to the firings resignations, and an equal share in the last day or so after these two showed their class by airing it all to the press. How some here on the boards can not read the tea leaves and see just what sort of men these two are for behaving in this disgraceful manner is beyond me. I suppose there is so much hatred of RL that they cannot see clearly, and I get that even if I think it is only partially fair, but if airing dirty laundry in the press does not say something to you about the egos of these two "men," I am not sure what to say.
This narrative that my father up and left when the going got tough is unfair as well - no surprise I would say that - the timing looked bad, but the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent. To say this took all of his time is not an understatement and this is why he left, plain and simple. It was certainly not because he was cowardly or felt shame in some way, which is a pathetic suggestion. Also, he has never been and will never be involved in football operations, so for those who think his presence on the board is somehow negatively affecting football decisions, this is not a role he fills, and rightly so.
I am not really going to say more about this, but I thought some of the comments towards him were unnecessary and I would simply say that the boardroom issues are more thorny than some have suggested, though others have been fairly close to the truth, but not nearly cynical enough about the actions of the two former board members.
It’s not us who is failing to see clearly. It's not Randy who is showing a great deal of restraint. It's not Randy who is showing any signs of "class". It's not Randy who is humiliated, embarrassed, outraged, hurt, despondent, and has the emotional torment of seeing us turned into a laughing stock. That's us. The fans. The real fans. The fans who care about this club. The fans that will be here long after Lerner, and you, have gone. The fans, like King, who actually care about this club and restoring it to its rightful place. The fans who have been held in such contempt for years now. The fans who have little truck with nonsensical responses that are designed for us to side with the person who is killing our club against the 2 are trying to save it. The fans who want Lerner out. You may say that we don't know how or what Lerner and his associates really feel, well we watch every Saturday and that's enough. Go now. The lot of you.
who's your father?
His dad is General Krulak.
It’s not us who is failing to see clearly. It's not Randy who is showing a great deal of restraint. It's not Randy who is showing any signs of "class". It's not Randy who is humiliated, embarrassed, outraged, hurt, despondent, and has the emotional torment of seeing us turned into a laughing stock. That's us. The fans. The real fans. The fans who care about this club. The fans that will be here long after Lerner, and you, have gone. The fans, like King, who actually care about this club and restoring it to its rightful place. The fans who have been held in such contempt for years now. The fans who have little truck with nonsensical responses that are designed for us to side with the person who is killing our club against the 2 are trying to save it. The fans who want Lerner out. You may say that we don't know how or what Lerner and his associates really feel, well we watch every Saturday and that's enough. Go now. The lot of you.
TESTIFY!
Beautifully put Peter.
**Standing Ovation**I think everyone is more than aware that there are two sides to the story. I am also in full agreement that it does look a bit odd shall I say that letters have been leaked and then King goes on Bloomberg (?) publicly calling for the sale to go through quickly whilst both men have now firmly pointed the finger at Lerner.
I don't think they have acted professionally at all.
But...
name one journalist over here that has not highlighted Randy Lerner as being the problem at Villa. There is a big big problem behind the scenes that has manifested itself into a shambolic club with no sense of direction of one hopeless appointment after another. It appears from stories on the web, and from posters here from the US, that Lerner's tenure of the Cleveland Browns was very similar.
At last it seemed that Lerner was going to take a back step and the appointed Chairman and the newly formed football board would have free reign in putting the thing that we care about the most, the football side, right. We expect that stuff that we don't see to be managed correctly, efficiently, and with due care.
It appeared that the appointments of Bernstein, King, Little, and Bevington was an amazing coup for the club and saw us finally grasping what was needed. These people are leaders in their own areas of expertise and have more business acumen dripping from them in terms of how to either build the foundations of a football club, how to make it successful, how to broadly move it to a level where it is flourishing and producing on relative terms, and how to link the club with different areas of the finance or business sector to encourage more partnerships for the club's benefit.
And Pelty seems fit to denigrate their stature as "These two men" without seemingly realising that "these two men" were doing one thing and one thing alone. The very best for Aston Villa. Is Lerner doing that? No, he is protecting his wealth (and you could argue rightly so). Is Krulak doing that? No, he is protecting Lerner and doing his bidding.
No, we don't know what has gone on and how Bernstein & King have behaved. But considering what Lerner has done to us short of grabbing Lerner by the throat whilst pulling a knife on him whilst the other beats up his wife and kids, there is going to be very very little support here for Lerner if two beastly men have identified him as being the problem.
Pelty, your argument is like the owner of the Big Top being annoyed at the acrobat who is complaining that he won't supply a net to stop him falling to his death . The cancer here is not Bernstein & King. It's Lerner. if anyone is behaving in a disgraceful manner it's not the people who genuinely care for Aston villa, it's those that don't. Neither you, Krulak, nor Lerner do. We were tricked when you rode into town hooting and a-hollering shooting from the hip with your yee-ha's but it turned out to be smoke and mirrors.
It’s not us who is failing to see clearly. It's not Randy who is showing a great deal of restraint. It's not Randy who is showing any signs of "class". It's not Randy who is humiliated, embarrassed, outraged, hurt, despondent, and has the emotional torment of seeing us turned into a laughing stock. That's us. The fans. The real fans. The fans who care about this club. The fans that will be here long after Lerner, and you, have gone. The fans, like King, who actually care about this club and restoring it to its rightful place. The fans who have been held in such contempt for years now. The fans who have little truck with nonsensical responses that are designed for us to side with the person who is killing our club against the 2 are trying to save it. The fans who want Lerner out. You may say that we don't know how or what Lerner and his associates really feel, well we watch every Saturday and that's enough. Go now. The lot of you.
**Applause**
You may say that we don't know how or what Lerner and his associates really feel, well we watch every Saturday and that's enough. Go now. The lot of you.
Pelty, you mentioned that your father has no footballing remit at Aston Villa. What is his remit?
Yep well said Peter.
And frankly there is little honor in sending your son to do the dirty work. I don't want to hear from the camp, I want to hear from the leader.
Alas, a forlorn hope. The silence is deafening!
If you knew the entire story, and the actions of Bernstein and King, you might understand why thing went down the way they did. The offensive emails are the tip of the iceberg. I have long stated that I think RL has made some huge mistakes along the way and think he has more than his share of the blame in this horror story. How can he not? But there are two sides to every story and that is certainly the case in this latest episode; in this particular instance, I think Randy showed a great amount of restraint, believe it or not, prior to the firings resignations, and an equal share in the last day or so after these two showed their class by airing it all to the press. How some here on the boards can not read the tea leaves and see just what sort of men these two are for behaving in this disgraceful manner is beyond me. I suppose there is so much hatred of RL that they cannot see clearly, and I get that even if I think it is only partially fair, but if airing dirty laundry in the press does not say something to you about the egos of these two "men," I am not sure what to say.
This narrative that my father up and left when the going got tough is unfair as well - no surprise I would say that - the timing looked bad, but the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent. To say this took all of his time is not an understatement and this is why he left, plain and simple. It was certainly not because he was cowardly or felt shame in some way, which is a pathetic suggestion. Also, he has never been and will never be involved in football operations, so for those who think his presence on the board is somehow negatively affecting football decisions, this is not a role he fills, and rightly so.
I am not really going to say more about this, but I thought some of the comments towards him were unnecessary and I would simply say that the boardroom issues are more thorny than some have suggested, though others have been fairly close to the truth, but not nearly cynical enough about the actions of the two former board members.
Appreciate you posting Pelty. My view is that the two men probably did what they did in order to put the focus on Randy and make him realise that it is time for him to to do the honourable thing as custodian of Aston Villa, that is, it is time to pass the Club on. All the better if he passes the Club on to people with the aptitude, skills and ambition to get the Club where it should rightfully be - challenging at the very top of the game.
Randy's ten years at the Club have been a disaster in every sense. We don't need to go into it, we all know it. The Club is rotten to the core and the two men (figures who command an awful lot of respect in the worlds of football and finance) simply wished to fix it at best or highlight it at worst. If Randy remains at the Club, calling the shots, making the appointments, holding the purse strings, Aston Villa will tank further. Please get that message across to him: HE is destroying the Club. Indeed he has made it not just a UK laughing stock but an international laughing stock too. I'm sure he is the nicest and most well-intentioned of gentleman but clearly the realm of sports ownership is not for him.
Randy now has the chance to leave this Club with his head held high so long he communicates his intentions clearly to the fanbase and then sells us on to genuine people with the the expertise, plan and ambition to rebuild Aston Villa on every level. When King resigned I think his intention was to let the fanbase know this and his interview on Bloomberg yesterday clarified this further. By giving us this information King did the fanbase a great service because Randy has kept us all in the dark for far too long now.
It is now up to Randy. If he sells us on to charlatans like Haslam, in a fit of pique, I would not be in the least surprised BUT, going on King's interview yesterday, this is his chance to be remembered with a huge degree of fondness for, clearly, there are decent buyers waiting in the wings. Please pass on the message that, for the good of Aston Villa - and himself - it is time for him to go.
If you want an end to imbalanced opinions, Pelty, tell us what the hell is going on.
Yep well said Peter.
And frankly there is little honor in sending your son to do the dirty work. I don't want to hear from the camp, I want to hear from the leader.
Alas, a forlorn hope. The silence is deafening!
No one sent me; I just am frustrated with the imbalanced opinions and thought I would have my say. That is still legal here, is it not?
Well I think Peter's post was shit. Didn't once ask about the official capacity at Villa Park...
Yep well said Peter.
And frankly there is little honor in sending your son to do the dirty work. I don't want to hear from the camp, I want to hear from the leader.
Alas, a forlorn hope. The silence is deafening!
No one sent me; I just am frustrated with the imbalanced opinions and thought I would have my say. That is still legal here, is it not?
If you knew the entire story, and the actions of Bernstein and King, you might understand why thing went down the way they did. The offensive emails are the tip of the iceberg. I have long stated that I think RL has made some huge mistakes along the way and think he has more than his share of the blame in this horror story. How can he not? But there are two sides to every story and that is certainly the case in this latest episode; in this particular instance, I think Randy showed a great amount of restraint, believe it or not, prior to the firings resignations, and an equal share in the last day or so after these two showed their class by airing it all to the press. How some here on the boards can not read the tea leaves and see just what sort of men these two are for behaving in this disgraceful manner is beyond me. I suppose there is so much hatred of RL that they cannot see clearly, and I get that even if I think it is only partially fair, but if airing dirty laundry in the press does not say something to you about the egos of these two "men," I am not sure what to say.
This narrative that my father up and left when the going got tough is unfair as well - no surprise I would say that - the timing looked bad, but the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent. To say this took all of his time is not an understatement and this is why he left, plain and simple. It was certainly not because he was cowardly or felt shame in some way, which is a pathetic suggestion. Also, he has never been and will never be involved in football operations, so for those who think his presence on the board is somehow negatively affecting football decisions, this is not a role he fills, and rightly so.
I am not really going to say more about this, but I thought some of the comments towards him were unnecessary and I would simply say that the boardroom issues are more thorny than some have suggested, though others have been fairly close to the truth, but not nearly cynical enough about the actions of the two former board members.
Appreciate you posting Pelty. My view is that the two men probably did what they did in order to put the focus on Randy and make him realise that it is time for him to to do the honourable thing as custodian of Aston Villa, that is, it is time to pass the Club on. All the better if he passes the Club on to people with the aptitude, skills and ambition to get the Club where it should rightfully be - challenging at the very top of the game.
Randy's ten years at the Club have been a disaster in every sense. We don't need to go into it, we all know it. The Club is rotten to the core and the two men (figures who command an awful lot of respect in the worlds of football and finance) simply wished to fix it at best or highlight it at worst. If Randy remains at the Club, calling the shots, making the appointments, holding the purse strings, Aston Villa will tank further. Please get that message across to him: HE is destroying the Club. Indeed he has made it not just a UK laughing stock but an international laughing stock too. I'm sure he is the nicest and most well-intentioned of gentleman but clearly the realm of sports ownership is not for him.
Randy now has the chance to leave this Club with his head held high so long he communicates his intentions clearly to the fanbase and then sells us on to genuine people with the the expertise, plan and ambition to rebuild Aston Villa on every level. When King resigned I think his intention was to let the fanbase know this and his interview on Bloomberg yesterday clarified this further. By giving us this information King did the fanbase a great service because Randy has kept us all in the dark for far too long now.
It is now up to Randy. If he sells us on to charlatans like Haslam, in a fit of pique, I would not be in the least surprised BUT, going on King's interview yesterday, this is his chance to be remembered with a huge degree of fondness for, clearly, there are decent buyers waiting in the wings. Please pass on the message that, for the good of Aston Villa - and himself - it is time for him to go.
The bit I have highlighted. Okay, not very professional if it's what went on but at the same time being as exasperated as I'm sure they were they must have been driven to it. Sometimes the truth hurts and it would appear that RL hasn't ever been given that truth up until now.
If you want an end to imbalanced opinions, Pelty, tell us what the hell is going on.
IMHO you could say something substantial or go away - and what's with the "legal" on here shite?
If you knew the entire story, and the actions of Bernstein and King, you might understand why thing went down the way they did. The offensive emails are the tip of the iceberg. I have long stated that I think RL has made some huge mistakes along the way and think he has more than his share of the blame in this horror story. How can he not? But there are two sides to every story and that is certainly the case in this latest episode; in this particular instance, I think Randy showed a great amount of restraint, believe it or not, prior to the firings resignations, and an equal share in the last day or so after these two showed their class by airing it all to the press. How some here on the boards can not read the tea leaves and see just what sort of men these two are for behaving in this disgraceful manner is beyond me. I suppose there is so much hatred of RL that they cannot see clearly, and I get that even if I think it is only partially fair, but if airing dirty laundry in the press does not say something to you about the egos of these two "men," I am not sure what to say.
This narrative that my father up and left when the going got tough is unfair as well - no surprise I would say that - the timing looked bad, but the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent. To say this took all of his time is not an understatement and this is why he left, plain and simple. It was certainly not because he was cowardly or felt shame in some way, which is a pathetic suggestion. Also, he has never been and will never be involved in football operations, so for those who think his presence on the board is somehow negatively affecting football decisions, this is not a role he fills, and rightly so.
I am not really going to say more about this, but I thought some of the comments towards him were unnecessary and I would simply say that the boardroom issues are more thorny than some have suggested, though others have been fairly close to the truth, but not nearly cynical enough about the actions of the two former board members.
Appreciate you posting Pelty. My view is that the two men probably did what they did in order to put the focus on Randy and make him realise that it is time for him to to do the honourable thing as custodian of Aston Villa, that is, it is time to pass the Club on. All the better if he passes the Club on to people with the aptitude, skills and ambition to get the Club where it should rightfully be - challenging at the very top of the game.
Randy's ten years at the Club have been a disaster in every sense. We don't need to go into it, we all know it. The Club is rotten to the core and the two men (figures who command an awful lot of respect in the worlds of football and finance) simply wished to fix it at best or highlight it at worst. If Randy remains at the Club, calling the shots, making the appointments, holding the purse strings, Aston Villa will tank further. Please get that message across to him: HE is destroying the Club. Indeed he has made it not just a UK laughing stock but an international laughing stock too. I'm sure he is the nicest and most well-intentioned of gentleman but clearly the realm of sports ownership is not for him.
Randy now has the chance to leave this Club with his head held high so long he communicates his intentions clearly to the fanbase and then sells us on to genuine people with the the expertise, plan and ambition to rebuild Aston Villa on every level. When King resigned I think his intention was to let the fanbase know this and his interview on Bloomberg yesterday clarified this further. By giving us this information King did the fanbase a great service because Randy has kept us all in the dark for far too long now.
It is now up to Randy. If he sells us on to charlatans like Haslam, in a fit of pique, I would not be in the least surprised BUT, going on King's interview yesterday, this is his chance to be remembered with a huge degree of fondness for, clearly, there are decent buyers waiting in the wings. Please pass on the message that, for the good of Aston Villa - and himself - it is time for him to go.
The bit I have highlighted. Okay, not very professional if it's what went on but at the same time being as exasperated as I'm sure they were they must have been driven to it. Sometimes the truth hurts and it would appear that RL hasn't ever been given that truth up until now.
All fair, and perhaps that was indeed King's intent, but I think we differ on whether or not K&B acted appropriately. I do not have contact with Randy, so I will not be able to pass on any ideas, wishes, etc.
If you knew the entire story, and the actions of Bernstein and King, you might understand why thing went down the way they did. The offensive emails are the tip of the iceberg. I have long stated that I think RL has made some huge mistakes along the way and think he has more than his share of the blame in this horror story. How can he not? But there are two sides to every story and that is certainly the case in this latest episode; in this particular instance, I think Randy showed a great amount of restraint, believe it or not, prior to the firings resignations, and an equal share in the last day or so after these two showed their class by airing it all to the press. How some here on the boards can not read the tea leaves and see just what sort of men these two are for behaving in this disgraceful manner is beyond me. I suppose there is so much hatred of RL that they cannot see clearly, and I get that even if I think it is only partially fair, but if airing dirty laundry in the press does not say something to you about the egos of these two "men," I am not sure what to say.
This narrative that my father up and left when the going got tough is unfair as well - no surprise I would say that - the timing looked bad, but the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent. To say this took all of his time is not an understatement and this is why he left, plain and simple. It was certainly not because he was cowardly or felt shame in some way, which is a pathetic suggestion. Also, he has never been and will never be involved in football operations, so for those who think his presence on the board is somehow negatively affecting football decisions, this is not a role he fills, and rightly so.
I am not really going to say more about this, but I thought some of the comments towards him were unnecessary and I would simply say that the boardroom issues are more thorny than some have suggested, though others have been fairly close to the truth, but not nearly cynical enough about the actions of the two former board members.
Appreciate you posting Pelty. My view is that the two men probably did what they did in order to put the focus on Randy and make him realise that it is time for him to to do the honourable thing as custodian of Aston Villa, that is, it is time to pass the Club on. All the better if he passes the Club on to people with the aptitude, skills and ambition to get the Club where it should rightfully be - challenging at the very top of the game.
Randy's ten years at the Club have been a disaster in every sense. We don't need to go into it, we all know it. The Club is rotten to the core and the two men (figures who command an awful lot of respect in the worlds of football and finance) simply wished to fix it at best or highlight it at worst. If Randy remains at the Club, calling the shots, making the appointments, holding the purse strings, Aston Villa will tank further. Please get that message across to him: HE is destroying the Club. Indeed he has made it not just a UK laughing stock but an international laughing stock too. I'm sure he is the nicest and most well-intentioned of gentleman but clearly the realm of sports ownership is not for him.
Randy now has the chance to leave this Club with his head held high so long he communicates his intentions clearly to the fanbase and then sells us on to genuine people with the the expertise, plan and ambition to rebuild Aston Villa on every level. When King resigned I think his intention was to let the fanbase know this and his interview on Bloomberg yesterday clarified this further. By giving us this information King did the fanbase a great service because Randy has kept us all in the dark for far too long now.
It is now up to Randy. If he sells us on to charlatans like Haslam, in a fit of pique, I would not be in the least surprised BUT, going on King's interview yesterday, this is his chance to be remembered with a huge degree of fondness for, clearly, there are decent buyers waiting in the wings. Please pass on the message that, for the good of Aston Villa - and himself - it is time for him to go.
The bit I have highlighted. Okay, not very professional if it's what went on but at the same time being as exasperated as I'm sure they were they must have been driven to it. Sometimes the truth hurts and it would appear that RL hasn't ever been given that truth up until now.
All fair, and perhaps that was indeed King's intent, but I think we differ on whether or not K&B acted appropriately. I do not have contact with Randy, so I will not be able to pass on any ideas, wishes, etc.
Don't worry Pelty. He's cut us off as well.
Did you see my question asking what your fathers remit at the club is?
He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent.
I must say I find it quite remarkable that it's King and Bernstein who are acting unprofessionally rather than a board member that tells all to his son who uses the information on a public forum.
I must say I find it quite remarkable that it's King and Bernstein who are acting unprofessionally rather than a board member that tells all to his son who uses the information on a public forum.
I must say I find it quite remarkable that it's King and Bernstein who are acting unprofessionally rather than a board member that tells all to his son who uses the information on a public forum.
Indeed Peter. A director of the club has clearly been talking about internal company matters with a family member, and that family member is now making the information public. I don't know if there will be any legal fall out from King and Bernstein's resignations, but this will hardly help the club's position if there is.
Of course Pelty as a poster is free to post what he likes, but I have to say that it is ill-advised, as it's not just his personal opinion being posted. The media is also on the look out for any further dirt to embarrass us with.
I must say I find it quite remarkable that it's King and Bernstein who are acting unprofessionally rather than a board member that tells all to his son who uses the information on a public forum.
Indeed Peter. A director of the club has clearly been talking about internal company matters with a family member, and that family member is now making the information public. I don't know if there will be any legal fall out from King and Bernstein's resignations, but this will hardly help the club's position if there is.
Of course Pelty as a poster is free to post what he likes, but I have to say that it is ill-advised, as it's not just his personal opinion being posted. The media is also on the look out for any further dirt to embarrass us with.
Actually, it is all my opinion. I have stated that there is more to it than the press suggests... this is my opinion and my opinion alone. Others might think differently, including the board. I have not had exposure to the full details by any means, but the little I do know simply suggests that there is more to the story... but this is all my opinion and no one else's.
I must say I find it quite remarkable that it's King and Bernstein who are acting unprofessionally rather than a board member that tells all to his son who uses the information on a public forum.
Indeed Peter. A director of the club has clearly been talking about internal company matters with a family member, and that family member is now making the information public. I don't know if there will be any legal fall out from King and Bernstein's resignations, but this will hardly help the club's position if there is.
Of course Pelty as a poster is free to post what he likes, but I have to say that it is ill-advised, as it's not just his personal opinion being posted. The media is also on the look out for any further dirt to embarrass us with.
Actually, it is all my opinion. I have stated that there is more to it than the press suggests... this is my opinion and my opinion alone. Others might think differently, including the board. I have not had exposure to the full details by any means, but the little I do know simply suggests that there is more to the story... but this is all my opinion and no one else's.
Pelty, Mervyn King was the Governor of the Bank of England and had to deal with the worst fiscal crisis in living memory, and by most accounts really didn't do badly at all (the political faults are largely for others), and is clearly a great fan of the club who cares deeply about its future. David Bernstein was instrumental in dragging Man City back from oblivion, and cared so much about the fans in that instance that he kept a photo of a young boy, a City fan, crying as they were relegated to the third tier, just as a reminder of what he owed them.
Frankly, where do you get off defending Randy and comparing him favourably to those two? What the hell has Randy ever done that would allow you to get all superior about Mervyn King? What in Randy's record makes you think he could even look David Bernstein in the eye when it comes to caring about the fans? The man has gutted the club, hobbled it, starved it to death, and now the biggest disaster in nearly three decades has befallen it - largely because of him - and he's got nothing to say. Nothing. Not even some pseudo-Biblical gibberish (what would he say to 'comfort' us this time? That the meek shall inherit the earth?).
Come back and start babbling on about honour and dignity when Randy's actually had the guts to say one word or do one thing to show the fans that he cares. In the meantime, perhaps save your aspersions for lesser men - and I can think of a certain football club owner you could start off with.
I must say I find it quite remarkable that it's King and Bernstein who are acting unprofessionally rather than a board member that tells all to his son who uses the information on a public forum.
Indeed Peter. A director of the club has clearly been talking about internal company matters with a family member, and that family member is now making the information public. I don't know if there will be any legal fall out from King and Bernstein's resignations, but this will hardly help the club's position if there is.
Of course Pelty as a poster is free to post what he likes, but I have to say that it is ill-advised, as it's not just his personal opinion being posted. The media is also on the look out for any further dirt to embarrass us with.
Actually, it is all my opinion. I have stated that there is more to it than the press suggests... this is my opinion and my opinion alone. Others might think differently, including the board. I have not had exposure to the full details by any means, but the little I do know simply suggests that there is more to the story... but this is all my opinion and no one else's.
Your say sounds like a load of bullshit to me.
If you knew the entire story, and the actions of Bernstein and King, you might understand why thing went down the way they did. The offensive emails are the tip of the iceberg....
I would simply say that the boardroom issues are more thorny than some have suggested, though others have been fairly close to the truth, but not nearly cynical enough about the actions of the two former board members.
One of those rare moments when we can all agree on something, well said Peter.
If you knew the entire story, and the actions of Bernstein and King, you might understand why thing went down the way they did. The offensive emails are the tip of the iceberg. I have long stated that I think RL has made some huge mistakes along the way and think he has more than his share of the blame in this horror story. How can he not? But there are two sides to every story and that is certainly the case in this latest episode; in this particular instance, I think Randy showed a great amount of restraint, believe it or not, prior to the firings resignations, and an equal share in the last day or so after these two showed their class by airing it all to the press. How some here on the boards can not read the tea leaves and see just what sort of men these two are for behaving in this disgraceful manner is beyond me. I suppose there is so much hatred of RL that they cannot see clearly, and I get that even if I think it is only partially fair, but if airing dirty laundry in the press does not say something to you about the egos of these two "men," I am not sure what to say.
This narrative that my father up and left when the going got tough is unfair as well - no surprise I would say that - the timing looked bad, but the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent. To say this took all of his time is not an understatement and this is why he left, plain and simple. It was certainly not because he was cowardly or felt shame in some way, which is a pathetic suggestion. Also, he has never been and will never be involved in football operations, so for those who think his presence on the board is somehow negatively affecting football decisions, this is not a role he fills, and rightly so.
I am not really going to say more about this, but I thought some of the comments towards him were unnecessary and I would simply say that the boardroom issues are more thorny than some have suggested, though others have been fairly close to the truth, but not nearly cynical enough about the actions of the two former board members.
Appreciate you posting Pelty. My view is that the two men probably did what they did in order to put the focus on Randy and make him realise that it is time for him to to do the honourable thing as custodian of Aston Villa, that is, it is time to pass the Club on. All the better if he passes the Club on to people with the aptitude, skills and ambition to get the Club where it should rightfully be - challenging at the very top of the game.
Randy's ten years at the Club have been a disaster in every sense. We don't need to go into it, we all know it. The Club is rotten to the core and the two men (figures who command an awful lot of respect in the worlds of football and finance) simply wished to fix it at best or highlight it at worst. If Randy remains at the Club, calling the shots, making the appointments, holding the purse strings, Aston Villa will tank further. Please get that message across to him: HE is destroying the Club. Indeed he has made it not just a UK laughing stock but an international laughing stock too. I'm sure he is the nicest and most well-intentioned of gentleman but clearly the realm of sports ownership is not for him.
Randy now has the chance to leave this Club with his head held high so long he communicates his intentions clearly to the fanbase and then sells us on to genuine people with the the expertise, plan and ambition to rebuild Aston Villa on every level. When King resigned I think his intention was to let the fanbase know this and his interview on Bloomberg yesterday clarified this further. By giving us this information King did the fanbase a great service because Randy has kept us all in the dark for far too long now.
It is now up to Randy. If he sells us on to charlatans like Haslam, in a fit of pique, I would not be in the least surprised BUT, going on King's interview yesterday, this is his chance to be remembered with a huge degree of fondness for, clearly, there are decent buyers waiting in the wings. Please pass on the message that, for the good of Aston Villa - and himself - it is time for him to go.
The bit I have highlighted. Okay, not very professional if it's what went on but at the same time being as exasperated as I'm sure they were they must have been driven to it. Sometimes the truth hurts and it would appear that RL hasn't ever been given that truth up until now.
All fair, and perhaps that was indeed King's intent, but I think we differ on whether or not K&B acted appropriately. I do not have contact with Randy, so I will not be able to pass on any ideas, wishes, etc. Like everyone else here, I think he has made mistakes that have brought us to where we are, but I also am aware that many individuals - starting with the lumps on the pitch - contributed to the failure of the sort experienced this year and in the past five years. 50+ million pounds were available to be spent and look at how it was invested? I do not blame the owner; you might. I think he tried to put people in place who had footballing knowledge and they did not buy well. Does he bear some responsibility for that? Of course, but he was trying to put people in place who had skills of the sort which he does not possess in the area of scouting and they let him down. If you are determined to blame him for that, have at it. I cannot change your mind...
What a superb post from 1 Pablo. But does anyone actually know for sure if "pelty" isn't just an Internet troll?It has been established a long time ago in these parts who Pelty is.
I must say I find it quite remarkable that it's King and Bernstein who are acting unprofessionally rather than a board member that tells all to his son who uses the information on a public forum.
Indeed Peter. A director of the club has clearly been talking about internal company matters with a family member, and that family member is now making the information public. I don't know if there will be any legal fall out from King and Bernstein's resignations, but this will hardly help the club's position if there is.
Of course Pelty as a poster is free to post what he likes, but I have to say that it is ill-advised, as it's not just his personal opinion being posted. The media is also on the look out for any further dirt to embarrass us with.
Actually, it is all my opinion. I have stated that there is more to it than the press suggests... this is my opinion and my opinion alone. Others might think differently, including the board. I have not had exposure to the full details by any means, but the little I do know simply suggests that there is more to the story... but this is all my opinion and no one else's.
What a superb post from 1 Pablo. But does anyone actually know for sure if "pelty" isn't just an Internet troll?
I must say I find it quite remarkable that it's King and Bernstein who are acting unprofessionally rather than a board member that tells all to his son who uses the information on a public forum.
Indeed Peter. A director of the club has clearly been talking about internal company matters with a family member, and that family member is now making the information public. I don't know if there will be any legal fall out from King and Bernstein's resignations, but this will hardly help the club's position if there is.
Of course Pelty as a poster is free to post what he likes, but I have to say that it is ill-advised, as it's not just his personal opinion being posted. The media is also on the look out for any further dirt to embarrass us with.
Actually, it is all my opinion. I have stated that there is more to it than the press suggests... this is my opinion and my opinion alone. Others might think differently, including the board. I have not had exposure to the full details by any means, but the little I do know simply suggests that there is more to the story... but this is all my opinion and no one else's.
Your say sounds like a load of bullshit to me.
OK, appreciate your opinion.
Clearly, there is no room for conversation here, so I will return to lurker status and will try to say no more. I apologize for saying what I have; my intent was not to enflame, to act the toady, or anything of that nature, but merely to state an opinion that there is more to the story.
As for my *opinion* of King and Bernstein, it could not possibly be lower and I do not give a damn about what they have accomplished. I respect it, but it is in the past and their present actions do not impress me. This, too, is my opinion...
Have a good day all...
Well I haven't been around "these parts" as long as some.Any chance someone could fill in the blanks for me?What a superb post from 1 Pablo. But does anyone actually know for sure if "pelty" isn't just an Internet troll?It has been established a long time ago in these parts who Pelty is.
Apologies. He's the son of General Charles Krulak, Randy Lerner's confidant.Well I haven't been around "these parts" as long as some.Any chance someone could fill in the blanks for me?What a superb post from 1 Pablo. But does anyone actually know for sure if "pelty" isn't just an Internet troll?It has been established a long time ago in these parts who Pelty is.
Well I haven't been around "these parts" as long as some.Any chance someone could fill in the blanks for me?What a superb post from 1 Pablo. But does anyone actually know for sure if "pelty" isn't just an Internet troll?It has been established a long time ago in these parts who Pelty is.
Apologies. He's the son of General Charles Krulak, Randy Lerner's confidant.Well I haven't been around "these parts" as long as some.Any chance someone could fill in the blanks for me?What a superb post from 1 Pablo. But does anyone actually know for sure if "pelty" isn't just an Internet troll?It has been established a long time ago in these parts who Pelty is.
Thank you.Apologies. He's the son of General Charles Krulak, Randy Lerner's confidant.Well I haven't been around "these parts" as long as some.Any chance someone could fill in the blanks for me?What a superb post from 1 Pablo. But does anyone actually know for sure if "pelty" isn't just an Internet troll?It has been established a long time ago in these parts who Pelty is.
The statement about the offensive emails only being the tip of the iceberg is a clear insinuation that King and Bernstein have acted unprofessionally on a massive scale, and that information can only have come from General Krulak.
Pelty, Randy, Big Pappa - snides the lot of them.
Pelty, Randy, Big Pappa - snides the lot of them.
And while pelty is a member on here he's got the same right not to be personally insulted as any other poster.
As for my *opinion* of King and Bernstein, it could not possibly be lower and I do not give a damn about what they have accomplished. I respect it, but it is in the past and their present actions do not impress me. This, too, is my opinion...
I do not give a damn about what they have accomplished....it is in the past and their present actions do not impress me.
I do not give a damn about what they have accomplished....it is in the past and their present actions do not impress me.
That's rich considering that Lerner and Krulak's reputations were built entirely on what they accomplished prior to arriving at the Villa.
*accomplished being a generous term for inheriting in Lerner's case
Direct question to you Pelty:
How many matches of our matches have you attended this season?
Pelty, Randy, Big Pappa - snides the lot of them.
And while pelty is a member on here he's got the same right not to be personally insulted as any other poster.
Sorry Pelty. The only tiny glimmer of hope I had was the footballing board. That was recently taken from me. I've also got a stinking cold. I hope you can understand why I'm a bit thorny.
Direct question to you Pelty:
How many of our matches have you attended this season?
Direct question to you Pelty:
How many of our matches have you attended this season?
Please not the I#m a better fan thread....
I think it's a shame when Pelty comes here to give us some insight he gets driven off with such a hostile reaction.
I'm more inclined to side with Bernstein & King as well, but if people could be more civil in their response it may have been a good way to get some dialogue going with someone who is clearly close to the Board.
Gossip about what was in the 'e-mail' is largely irrelevant. But how the club feels it can move forward after this further massive blow would obviously be of interest. It would have been nice to keep the conversation going with Pelty without venting all our pent up frustrations on him.
I think it's a shame when Pelty comes here to give us some insight he gets driven off with such a hostile reaction.
I'd like some insight too but all we get is his opinion of two respected businessmen.
I think it's a shame when Pelty comes here to give us some insight he gets driven off with such a hostile reaction.
I'm more inclined to side with Bernstein & King as well, but if people could be more civil in their response it may have been a good way to get some dialogue going with someone who is clearly close to the Board.
Gossip about what was in the 'e-mail' is largely irrelevant. But how the club feels it can move forward after this further massive blow would obviously be of interest. It would have been nice to keep the conversation going with Pelty without venting all our pent up frustrations on him.
Fair play to Pelty for coming on here, I'm sure he knew he'd be getting flak thrown in his direction. Whether he has come on to muddy the water or not, I don't know. I'll take him at his word that he is trying to explain things and give his viewpoint. What I can't understand is how on earth King and Bernstein could have behaved so unprofessionally in such a short time at the Club?
We all support Villa for many varying and some bizarre reasons and many of us have supported them for decades but none of us 'support' a club because our dad's friend owns them?Yeah! After supporting the club through thick and thin (mostly thin) for the last 20 weeks, I can say i'm a better fan than Lerner.
Mervyn King is one of us, Randy Lerner ain't.
We all support Villa for many varying and some bizarre reasons and many of us have supported them for decades but none of us 'support' a club because our dad's friend owns them?
We all support Villa for many varying and some bizarre reasons and many of us have supported them for decades but none of us 'support' a club because our dad's friend owns them?
David Cameron is pretty close to be fair.
We all support Villa for many varying and some bizarre reasons and many of us have supported them for decades but none of us 'support' a club because our dad's friend owns them?Yeah! After supporting the club through thick and thin (mostly thin) for the last 20 weeks, I can say i'm a better fan than Lerner.
Mervyn King is one of us, Randy Lerner ain't.
*I just had to write that.
We all support Villa for many varying and some bizarre reasons and many of us have supported them for decades but none of us 'support' a club because our dad's friend owns them?
David Cameron is pretty close to be fair.
There were 2 points I tried to make - 1 how awesome I am, 2 - (almost) anyone is a better fan than Lerner.We all support Villa for many varying and some bizarre reasons and many of us have supported them for decades but none of us 'support' a club because our dad's friend owns them?Yeah! After supporting the club through thick and thin (mostly thin) for the last 20 weeks, I can say i'm a better fan than Lerner.
Mervyn King is one of us, Randy Lerner ain't.
*I just had to write that.
It wasn't meant to be an 'I'm a better fan than you' type post but as none of us appear to be systematically destroying our great club I'd say we are definitely better fans than Lerner! Especially you Edvard!
There were 2 points I tried to make - 1 how awesome I am, 2 - (almost) anyone is a better fan than Lerner.We all support Villa for many varying and some bizarre reasons and many of us have supported them for decades but none of us 'support' a club because our dad's friend owns them?Yeah! After supporting the club through thick and thin (mostly thin) for the last 20 weeks, I can say i'm a better fan than Lerner.
Mervyn King is one of us, Randy Lerner ain't.
*I just had to write that.
It wasn't meant to be an 'I'm a better fan than you' type post but as none of us appear to be systematically destroying our great club I'd say we are definitely better fans than Lerner! Especially you Edvard!
We all support Villa for many varying and some bizarre reasons and many of us have supported them for decades but none of us 'support' a club because our dad's friend owns them?
David Cameron is pretty close to be fair.
I reckon he posts on here under the name Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle.
We all support Villa for many varying and some bizarre reasons and many of us have supported them for decades but none of us 'support' a club because our dad's friend owns them?
David Cameron is pretty close to be fair.
I reckon he posts on here under the name Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle.
I also thought he was Greg Nash.
We all support Villa for many varying and some bizarre reasons and many of us have supported them for decades but none of us 'support' a club because our dad's friend owns them?
David Cameron is pretty close to be fair.
I reckon he posts on here under the name Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle.
I think it's a shame when Pelty comes here to give us some insight he gets driven off with such a hostile reaction.Agreed.
I'm more inclined to side with Bernstein & King as well, but if people could be more civil in their response it may have been a good way to get some dialogue going with someone who is clearly close to the Board.
Gossip about what was in the 'e-mail' is largely irrelevant. But how the club feels it can move forward after this further massive blow would obviously be of interest. It would have been nice to keep the conversation going with Pelty without venting all our pent up frustrations on him.
I think it's a shame when Pelty comes here to give us some insight he gets driven off with such a hostile reaction.Agreed.
I'm more inclined to side with Bernstein & King as well, but if people could be more civil in their response it may have been a good way to get some dialogue going with someone who is clearly close to the Board.
Gossip about what was in the 'e-mail' is largely irrelevant. But how the club feels it can move forward after this further massive blow would obviously be of interest. It would have been nice to keep the conversation going with Pelty without venting all our pent up frustrations on him.
I think it's a shame when Pelty comes here to give us some insight he gets driven off with such a hostile reaction.Agreed.
I'm more inclined to side with Bernstein & King as well, but if people could be more civil in their response it may have been a good way to get some dialogue going with someone who is clearly close to the Board.
Gossip about what was in the 'e-mail' is largely irrelevant. But how the club feels it can move forward after this further massive blow would obviously be of interest. It would have been nice to keep the conversation going with Pelty without venting all our pent up frustrations on him.
X2.
I think it's a shame when Pelty comes here to give us some insight he gets driven off with such a hostile reaction.Agreed.
I'm more inclined to side with Bernstein & King as well, but if people could be more civil in their response it may have been a good way to get some dialogue going with someone who is clearly close to the Board.
Gossip about what was in the 'e-mail' is largely irrelevant. But how the club feels it can move forward after this further massive blow would obviously be of interest. It would have been nice to keep the conversation going with Pelty without venting all our pent up frustrations on him.
X2.
-1
And anyway, according to the Oxford English Dictionary 'Pelty' means 'one who is receiving of pelters'
We all support Villa for many varying and some bizarre reasons and many of us have supported them for decades but none of us 'support' a club because our dad's friend owns them?
David Cameron is pretty close to be fair.
I reckon he posts on here under the name Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle.
I also thought he was Greg Nash.
Greg Nash is Chris Smith's alter ego. Everybody knows that.
We all support Villa for many varying and some bizarre reasons and many of us have supported them for decades but none of us 'support' a club because our dad's friend owns them?
David Cameron is pretty close to be fair.
I reckon he posts on here under the name Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle.
I think it's a shame when Pelty comes here to give us some insight he gets driven off with such a hostile reaction.Agreed.
I'm more inclined to side with Bernstein & King as well, but if people could be more civil in their response it may have been a good way to get some dialogue going with someone who is clearly close to the Board.
Gossip about what was in the 'e-mail' is largely irrelevant. But how the club feels it can move forward after this further massive blow would obviously be of interest. It would have been nice to keep the conversation going with Pelty without venting all our pent up frustrations on him.
X2.
-1
And anyway, according to the Oxford English Dictionary 'Pelty' means 'one who is receiving of pelters'
Another -1.
While I respect his "opinion", his timing and stance strike me as a crony seeing the situation through rose-tinted glasses.
I think it's a shame when Pelty comes here to give us some insight he gets driven off with such a hostile reaction.Agreed.
I'm more inclined to side with Bernstein & King as well, but if people could be more civil in their response it may have been a good way to get some dialogue going with someone who is clearly close to the Board.
Gossip about what was in the 'e-mail' is largely irrelevant. But how the club feels it can move forward after this further massive blow would obviously be of interest. It would have been nice to keep the conversation going with Pelty without venting all our pent up frustrations on him.
X2.
-1
And anyway, according to the Oxford English Dictionary 'Pelty' means 'one who is receiving of pelters'
Another -1.
While I respect his "opinion", his timing and stance strike me as a crony seeing the situation through rose-tinted glasses.
That may be so. But it was an opportunity to at least have some dialogue with someone close to the board which at worst may have been interesting and possibly even helpful.
I think it's a shame when Pelty comes here to give us some insight he gets driven off with such a hostile reaction.Agreed.
I'm more inclined to side with Bernstein & King as well, but if people could be more civil in their response it may have been a good way to get some dialogue going with someone who is clearly close to the Board.
Gossip about what was in the 'e-mail' is largely irrelevant. But how the club feels it can move forward after this further massive blow would obviously be of interest. It would have been nice to keep the conversation going with Pelty without venting all our pent up frustrations on him.
X2.
-1
And anyway, according to the Oxford English Dictionary 'Pelty' means 'one who is receiving of pelters'
Another -1.
While I respect his "opinion", his timing and stance strike me as a crony seeing the situation through rose-tinted glasses.
That may be so. But it was an opportunity to at least have some dialogue with someone close to the board which at worst may have been interesting and possibly even helpful.
It may have been interesting. But it wouldn't have been helpful. For too long we've swallowed whatever they've rammed down our throats. I previously would have stuck up for Randy and co (albeit a while ago now) and would see them through claret and blue tinted glasses. But when the weight of evidence is so heavy to the contrary at some point you have to say - enough.
I think it's fine to be incredibly hostile to anything that comes from Randy, Pelty and Charles.
I think it's a shame when Pelty comes here to give us some insight he gets driven off with such a hostile reaction.Agreed.
I'm more inclined to side with Bernstein & King as well, but if people could be more civil in their response it may have been a good way to get some dialogue going with someone who is clearly close to the Board.
Gossip about what was in the 'e-mail' is largely irrelevant. But how the club feels it can move forward after this further massive blow would obviously be of interest. It would have been nice to keep the conversation going with Pelty without venting all our pent up frustrations on him.
X2.
-1
And anyway, according to the Oxford English Dictionary 'Pelty' means 'one who is receiving of pelters'
Another -1.
While I respect his "opinion", his timing and stance strike me as a crony seeing the situation through rose-tinted glasses.
That may be so. But it was an opportunity to at least have some dialogue with someone close to the board which at worst may have been interesting and possibly even helpful.
I think it's a shame when Pelty comes here to give us some insight he gets driven off with such a hostile reaction.Agreed.
I'm more inclined to side with Bernstein & King as well, but if people could be more civil in their response it may have been a good way to get some dialogue going with someone who is clearly close to the Board.
Gossip about what was in the 'e-mail' is largely irrelevant. But how the club feels it can move forward after this further massive blow would obviously be of interest. It would have been nice to keep the conversation going with Pelty without venting all our pent up frustrations on him.
X2.
-1
And anyway, according to the Oxford English Dictionary 'Pelty' means 'one who is receiving of pelters'
Another -1.
While I respect his "opinion", his timing and stance strike me as a crony seeing the situation through rose-tinted glasses.
That may be so. But it was an opportunity to at least have some dialogue with someone close to the board which at worst may have been interesting and possibly even helpful.
Nonsense. What bit that Pelty posted above was in anyway helpful? It was just the usual tittle tattle designed to deflect criticism away from the terrible job Lerner has done by impugning two decent, experienced businessmen. If the board want a dialogue with the fans, let them do it properly.
X2.
-1
Another -1.
QuoteX2.Quote-1QuoteAnother -1.
What's that in Lerner maths?
I think it's a shame when Pelty comes here to give us some insight he gets driven off with such a hostile reaction.Agreed.
I'm more inclined to side with Bernstein & King as well, but if people could be more civil in their response it may have been a good way to get some dialogue going with someone who is clearly close to the Board.
Gossip about what was in the 'e-mail' is largely irrelevant. But how the club feels it can move forward after this further massive blow would obviously be of interest. It would have been nice to keep the conversation going with Pelty without venting all our pent up frustrations on him.
X2.
-1
And anyway, according to the Oxford English Dictionary 'Pelty' means 'one who is receiving of pelters'
Another -1.
While I respect his "opinion", his timing and stance strike me as a crony seeing the situation through rose-tinted glasses.
That may be so. But it was an opportunity to at least have some dialogue with someone close to the board which at worst may have been interesting and possibly even helpful.
I think everyone is more than aware that there are two sides to the story. I am also in full agreement that it does look a bit odd shall I say that letters have been leaked and then King goes on Bloomberg (?) publicly calling for the sale to go through quickly whilst both men have now firmly pointed the finger at Lerner.
I don't think they have acted professionally at all.
But...
name one journalist over here that has not highlighted Randy Lerner as being the problem at Villa. There is a big big problem behind the scenes that has manifested itself into a shambolic club with no sense of direction of one hopeless appointment after another. It appears from stories on the web, and from posters here from the US, that Lerner's tenure of the Cleveland Browns was very similar.
At last it seemed that Lerner was going to take a back step and the appointed Chairman and the newly formed football board would have free reign in putting the thing that we care about the most, the football side, right. We expect that stuff that we don't see to be managed correctly, efficiently, and with due care.
It appeared that the appointments of Bernstein, King, Little, and Bevington was an amazing coup for the club and saw us finally grasping what was needed. These people are leaders in their own areas of expertise and have more business acumen dripping from them in terms of how to either build the foundations of a football club, how to make it successful, how to broadly move it to a level where it is flourishing and producing on relative terms, and how to link the club with different areas of the finance or business sector to encourage more partnerships for the club's benefit.
And Pelty seems fit to denigrate their stature as "These two men" without seemingly realising that "these two men" were doing one thing and one thing alone. The very best for Aston Villa. Is Lerner doing that? No, he is protecting his wealth (and you could argue rightly so). Is Krulak doing that? No, he is protecting Lerner and doing his bidding.
No, we don't know what has gone on and how Bernstein & King have behaved. But considering what Lerner has done to us short of grabbing Lerner by the throat whilst pulling a knife on him whilst the other beats up his wife and kids, there is going to be very very little support here for Lerner if two beastly men have identified him as being the problem.
Pelty, your argument is like the owner of the Big Top being annoyed at the acrobat who is complaining that he won't supply a net to stop him falling to his death . The cancer here is not Bernstein & King. It's Lerner. if anyone is behaving in a disgraceful manner it's not the people who genuinely care for Aston villa, it's those that don't. Neither you, Krulak, nor Lerner do. We were tricked when you rode into town hooting and a-hollering shooting from the hip with your yee-ha's but it turned out to be smoke and mirrors.
It’s not us who is failing to see clearly. It's not Randy who is showing a great deal of restraint. It's not Randy who is showing any signs of "class". It's not Randy who is humiliated, embarrassed, outraged, hurt, despondent, and has the emotional torment of seeing us turned into a laughing stock. That's us. The fans. The real fans. The fans who care about this club. The fans that will be here long after Lerner, and you, have gone. The fans, like King, who actually care about this club and restoring it to its rightful place. The fans who have been held in such contempt for years now. The fans who have little truck with nonsensical responses that are designed for us to side with the person who is killing our club against the 2 are trying to save it. The fans who want Lerner out. You may say that we don't know how or what Lerner and his associates really feel, well we watch every Saturday and that's enough. Go now. The lot of you.
Pelty - excuse me if I say I don't give two shits about how your dad saved an ailing college, 1000's of miles away.
It was obvioulsy given bigger priority over saving our ailing football club.
QuoteX2.Quote-1QuoteAnother -1.
What's that in Lerner maths?
£250m, no wait £100m..
the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent.
If Randy Lerner did college ownership...
To be fair, as I recall Krulak was only ever a non-executive director with limited responsibilities. It's not as if he was his right-hand man in the everyday running of the club.
the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent.
If Randy Lerner did college ownership...
Lol.
So, the General rushed off to help an ailing college that was $100m in the hole, leaving his best mate to flounder on alone in his pathetic attempts to help an ailing football club that was $300m in the hole.
With friends like him...
The bottom line is that Randy Lerner has run the club into the ground. His stewardship has been a disaster. There is no spin, no gloss that Pelty can put on that.
No argument on any of that.The bottom line is that Randy Lerner has run the club into the ground. His stewardship has been a disaster. There is no spin, no gloss that Pelty can put on that.
This is it. Of all the people who have come and gone - chief executives, board members, managers, players - there's been only one constant.
The bottom line is that Randy Lerner has run the club into the ground. His stewardship has been a disaster. There is no spin, no gloss that Pelty can put on that.
This is it. Of all the people who have come and gone - chief executives, board members, managers, players - there's been only one constant.
The bottom line is that Randy Lerner has run the club into the ground. His stewardship has been a disaster. There is no spin, no gloss that Pelty can put on that.
This is it. Of all the people who have come and gone - chief executives, board members, managers, players - there's been only one constant.
Gabby as well. So two.
The bottom line is that Randy Lerner has run the club into the ground. His stewardship has been a disaster. There is no spin, no gloss that Pelty can put on that.
This is it. Of all the people who have come and gone - chief executives, board members, managers, players - there's been only one constant.
Gabby as well. So two.
Actually, you're right. And there are so many similarities between the two.
The bottom line is that Randy Lerner has run the club into the ground. His stewardship has been a disaster. There is no spin, no gloss that Pelty can put on that.
This is it. Of all the people who have come and gone - chief executives, board members, managers, players - there's been only one constant.
Gabby as well. So two.
To be fair, as I recall Krulak was only ever a non-executive director with limited responsibilities. It's not as if he was his right-hand man in the everyday running of the club.
the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent.
If Randy Lerner did college ownership...
Lol.
So, the General rushed off to help an ailing college that was $100m in the hole, leaving his best mate to flounder on alone in his pathetic attempts to help an ailing football club that was $300m in the hole.
With friends like him...
To be fair, as I recall Krulak was only ever a non-executive director with limited responsibilities. It's not as if he was his right-hand man in the everyday running of the club.
the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent.
If Randy Lerner did college ownership...
Lol.
So, the General rushed off to help an ailing college that was $100m in the hole, leaving his best mate to flounder on alone in his pathetic attempts to help an ailing football club that was $300m in the hole.
With friends like him...
So, he's skilled in turning around organisations that are losing loads of money, and Randy (owner of an organisation that was/is losing loads of money) detailed him to talk bollocks to fans on the Internet.
Sounds typical.
The bottom line is that Randy Lerner has run the club into the ground. His stewardship has been a disaster. There is no spin, no gloss that Pelty can put on that.
This is it. Of all the people who have come and gone - chief executives, board members, managers, players - there's been only one constant.
Gabby as well. So two.
And the President Emeritus. That's three.
QuoteX2.Quote-1QuoteAnother -1.
What's that in Lerner maths?
You were far too subtle for me...Almost as though peter w is actually SVC.That's very unfair. Peter has constructed his argument with great thought and accuracy SVC spouts total bollix.
whoosh....
Totally agree. Let's be honest, the General has very little football knowledge, and for his son to suddenly speak up regarding the shitshow that is Aston Villa Football Club shows a glimpse of the insecurity and shame currently plaguing the Board.
It's hard to believe anyone "as crushed as the rest of us" would be able to justify Randy's tenure and denounce the guidance supplied by B&K.
The bottom line is that Randy Lerner has run the club into the ground. His stewardship has been a disaster. There is no spin, no gloss that Pelty can put on that.
This is it. Of all the people who have come and gone - chief executives, board members, managers, players - there's been only one constant.
Gabby as well. So two.
Actually, you're right. And there are so many similarities between the two.
Totally agree. Let's be honest, the General has very little football knowledge, and for his son to suddenly speak up regarding the shitshow that is Aston Villa Football Club shows a glimpse of the insecurity and shame currently plaguing the Board.
It's hard to believe anyone "as crushed as the rest of us" would be able to justify Randy's tenure and denounce the guidance supplied by B&K.
Or it could be that someone who reads the site but rarely posts got a bit fed up of seeing his dad and his dad's mate being slagged off. The slagging off might well be deserved but that doesn't stop it stinging a little if it's about your own family. I find it strange that so many people will call him posting a plant by the board but no one is willing to think he might just be a bit upset and wanting to try to balance things out a little. How angry most of the fans are it was never likely to work but I can understand him feeling the need to comment.
Totally agree. Let's be honest, the General has very little football knowledge, and for his son to suddenly speak up regarding the shitshow that is Aston Villa Football Club shows a glimpse of the insecurity and shame currently plaguing the Board.
It's hard to believe anyone "as crushed as the rest of us" would be able to justify Randy's tenure and denounce the guidance supplied by B&K.
Or it could be that someone who reads the site but rarely posts got a bit fed up of seeing his dad and his dad's mate being slagged off. The slagging off might well be deserved but that doesn't stop it stinging a little if it's about your own family. I find it strange that so many people will call him posting a plant by the board but no one is willing to think he might just be a bit upset and wanting to try to balance things out a little. How angry most of the fans are it was never likely to work but I can understand him feeling the need to comment.
If you knew the entire story, and the actions of Bernstein and King, you might understand why thing went down the way they did. The offensive emails are the tip of the iceberg. I have long stated that I think RL has made some huge mistakes along the way and think he has more than his share of the blame in this horror story. How can he not? But there are two sides to every story and that is certainly the case in this latest episode; in this particular instance, I think Randy showed a great amount of restraint, believe it or not, prior to the firings resignations, and an equal share in the last day or so after these two showed their class by airing it all to the press. How some here on the boards can not read the tea leaves and see just what sort of men these two are for behaving in this disgraceful manner is beyond me. I suppose there is so much hatred of RL that they cannot see clearly, and I get that even if I think it is only partially fair, but if airing dirty laundry in the press does not say something to you about the egos of these two "men," I am not sure what to say.
This narrative that my father up and left when the going got tough is unfair as well - no surprise I would say that - the timing looked bad, but the reality is that he became the president of a college that was about to be shuttered and was close to $100 million in the hole. His remit was to stop the dam from bursting in a year and then get the college on firmer footing over the next two all while an accreditation group was standing at the executioner's block. He tirelessly traveled and spoke to all who would listen so as to raise money and get the college solvent. To say this took all of his time is not an understatement and this is why he left, plain and simple. It was certainly not because he was cowardly or felt shame in some way, which is a pathetic suggestion. Also, he has never been and will never be involved in football operations, so for those who think his presence on the board is somehow negatively affecting football decisions, this is not a role he fills, and rightly so.
I am not really going to say more about this, but I thought some of the comments towards him were unnecessary and I would simply say that the boardroom issues are more thorny than some have suggested, though others have been fairly close to the truth, but not nearly cynical enough about the actions of the two former board members.
Totally agree. Let's be honest, the General has very little football knowledge, and for his son to suddenly speak up regarding the shitshow that is Aston Villa Football Club shows a glimpse of the insecurity and shame currently plaguing the Board.
It's hard to believe anyone "as crushed as the rest of us" would be able to justify Randy's tenure and denounce the guidance supplied by B&K.
Or it could be that someone who reads the site but rarely posts got a bit fed up of seeing his dad and his dad's mate being slagged off. The slagging off might well be deserved but that doesn't stop it stinging a little if it's about your own family. I find it strange that so many people will call him posting a plant by the board but no one is willing to think he might just be a bit upset and wanting to try to balance things out a little. How angry most of the fans are it was never likely to work but I can understand him feeling the need to comment.
I kind of agree with you Paul, but.....
The unnecessary and at time disgusting slagging off of Krulak was stamped down, both by ordinary posters and the mods.
The bulk of the remaining criticism has been the most part completely justified, and given the emotional attachment everyone on here has to the club, largely restrained.
That bit I'm afraid has to be a case of suck it up as I believe they say over there. If the whole thing wasn't such a complete and utter clusterfuck, wrapped up in an omnishambles there'd be nothing to criticise. And that there is rests fairly and squarely on one man's shoulders.
if you take an active part in public, especially in the emotive world of sports I think it is only the most naive and thin-skinned that believe criticism is never going to part and parcel of the life of an owner, player, manager, director etc. If you are happy to accept the plaudits and the hyperbolic praise then you are going to have accept that that is an emotional line that goes from over the top good to over the top bad.
When we were doing well under lerner at the very start did pelty come on here and tell us that we didn't know the half of it? We of course didn't hear pelty coming here saying that lerner had fucked the Browns up so may end up doing it to us. No, if you're happy to sit back and take the plaudits and past on the back when its going well then you should sit back and take the brickbats when it goes tits up.
Still, as pelty himself said, if he doesn't like what's being said he could just go and support someone else.
Totally agree. Let's be honest, the General has very little football knowledge, and for his son to suddenly speak up regarding the shitshow that is Aston Villa Football Club shows a glimpse of the insecurity and shame currently plaguing the Board.
It's hard to believe anyone "as crushed as the rest of us" would be able to justify Randy's tenure and denounce the guidance supplied by B&K.
Or it could be that someone who reads the site but rarely posts got a bit fed up of seeing his dad and his dad's mate being slagged off. The slagging off might well be deserved but that doesn't stop it stinging a little if it's about your own family. I find it strange that so many people will call him posting a plant by the board but no one is willing to think he might just be a bit upset and wanting to try to balance things out a little. How angry most of the fans are it was never likely to work but I can understand him feeling the need to comment.
I kind of agree with you Paul, but.....
The unnecessary and at time disgusting slagging off of Krulak was stamped down, both by ordinary posters and the mods.
The bulk of the remaining criticism has been the most part completely justified, and given the emotional attachment everyone on here has to the club, largely restrained.
That bit I'm afraid has to be a case of suck it up as I believe they say over there. If the whole thing wasn't such a complete and utter clusterfuck, wrapped up in an omnishambles there'd be nothing to criticise. And that there is rests fairly and squarely on one man's shoulders.
I don't know, I think on monday and tuesday some of the comments went a bit too far and that's the point really, it's the sort of thing that I'd be very unhappy to rad written about my family and I don't see why wealth would change that.
I don't think Pelty's input is part of some Machiavellian plot, or his defence of his father as a man is unjustified. He is however naive to think that right now anyone is going to listen to anything that sounds like trying to explain away what's happened and defend Randy Lerner as a sports club owner.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/03/former_browns_owner_randy_lern.htmlIt is indeed a great read and doesn't pull any pucnhes about where the probrlem-source lies.
I did not engage in any of the stuff with Pelty (indeed I never used to comment much to Krulak when he was a regular here). What I don't really get is why Pelty would come on here at all, knowing that the experiecne was likely to get ugly. It's almost like there's some sort of sado-masochistic gig going on.
... Seeing someone you love and care about, publicly wronged and held up to ridicule and all you can do is sit on the sidelines and watch it all happen whilst absolutely powerless to stop the wave after wave of humiliation and abuse hit home. That's the kind of anger and upset you're dealing with ...
I think everyone is more than aware that there are two sides to the story. I am also in full agreement that it does look a bit odd shall I say that letters have been leaked and then King goes on Bloomberg (?) publicly calling for the sale to go through quickly whilst both men have now firmly pointed the finger at Lerner.
I don't think they have acted professionally at all.
But...
name one journalist over here that has not highlighted Randy Lerner as being the problem at Villa. There is a big big problem behind the scenes that has manifested itself into a shambolic club with no sense of direction of one hopeless appointment after another. It appears from stories on the web, and from posters here from the US, that Lerner's tenure of the Cleveland Browns was very similar.
At last it seemed that Lerner was going to take a back step and the appointed Chairman and the newly formed football board would have free reign in putting the thing that we care about the most, the football side, right. We expect that stuff that we don't see to be managed correctly, efficiently, and with due care.
It appeared that the appointments of Bernstein, King, Little, and Bevington was an amazing coup for the club and saw us finally grasping what was needed. These people are leaders in their own areas of expertise and have more business acumen dripping from them in terms of how to either build the foundations of a football club, how to make it successful, how to broadly move it to a level where it is flourishing and producing on relative terms, and how to link the club with different areas of the finance or business sector to encourage more partnerships for the club's benefit.
And Pelty seems fit to denigrate their stature as "These two men" without seemingly realising that "these two men" were doing one thing and one thing alone. The very best for Aston Villa. Is Lerner doing that? No, he is protecting his wealth (and you could argue rightly so). Is Krulak doing that? No, he is protecting Lerner and doing his bidding.
No, we don't know what has gone on and how Bernstein & King have behaved. But considering what Lerner has done to us short of grabbing Lerner by the throat whilst pulling a knife on him whilst the other beats up his wife and kids, there is going to be very very little support here for Lerner if two beastly men have identified him as being the problem.
Pelty, your argument is like the owner of the Big Top being annoyed at the acrobat who is complaining that he won't supply a net to stop him falling to his death . The cancer here is not Bernstein & King. It's Lerner. if anyone is behaving in a disgraceful manner it's not the people who genuinely care for Aston villa, it's those that don't. Neither you, Krulak, nor Lerner do. We were tricked when you rode into town hooting and a-hollering shooting from the hip with your yee-ha's but it turned out to be smoke and mirrors.
It’s not us who is failing to see clearly. It's not Randy who is showing a great deal of restraint. It's not Randy who is showing any signs of "class". It's not Randy who is humiliated, embarrassed, outraged, hurt, despondent, and has the emotional torment of seeing us turned into a laughing stock. That's us. The fans. The real fans. The fans who care about this club. The fans that will be here long after Lerner, and you, have gone. The fans, like King, who actually care about this club and restoring it to its rightful place. The fans who have been held in such contempt for years now. The fans who have little truck with nonsensical responses that are designed for us to side with the person who is killing our club against the 2 are trying to save it. The fans who want Lerner out. You may say that we don't know how or what Lerner and his associates really feel, well we watch every Saturday and that's enough. Go now. The lot of you.
I did not engage in any of the stuff with Pelty (indeed I never used to comment much to Krulak when he was a regular here). What I don't really get is why Pelty would come on here at all, knowing that the experiecne was likely to get ugly. It's almost like there's some sort of sado-masochistic gig going on.
... Seeing someone you love and care about, publicly wronged and held up to ridicule and all you can do is sit on the sidelines and watch it all happen whilst absolutely powerless to stop the wave after wave of humiliation and abuse hit home. That's the kind of anger and upset you're dealing with ...
I think what Randy, Pelty and anyone else need to remember is that when we have criticised what is happening it is not because we want to see Randy or his interests damaged. In fact quite the opposite, if Randy had delivered a stable and successful Aston Villa he wouldn't have the massive black hole in his finances he has now.Very good.
It's been like watching a slow car crash as a pedestrian standing there shouting the driver to watch where he is going, you can see the lorry coming the other way. You can see he is looking at a text on his phone, eating a doughnut and fiddling with the radio and has no idea what is about to hit him. It's been like this for about 5 years.
Randy the brakes are old and you haven't looked after them, the Cadillac your dad gave you is fucked, jump out.
I think everyone is more than aware that there are two sides to the story. I am also in full agreement that it does look a bit odd shall I say that letters have been leaked and then King goes on Bloomberg (?) publicly calling for the sale to go through quickly whilst both men have now firmly pointed the finger at Lerner.
I don't think they have acted professionally at all.
But...
name one journalist over here that has not highlighted Randy Lerner as being the problem at Villa. There is a big big problem behind the scenes that has manifested itself into a shambolic club with no sense of direction of one hopeless appointment after another. It appears from stories on the web, and from posters here from the US, that Lerner's tenure of the Cleveland Browns was very similar.
At last it seemed that Lerner was going to take a back step and the appointed Chairman and the newly formed football board would have free reign in putting the thing that we care about the most, the football side, right. We expect that stuff that we don't see to be managed correctly, efficiently, and with due care.
It appeared that the appointments of Bernstein, King, Little, and Bevington was an amazing coup for the club and saw us finally grasping what was needed. These people are leaders in their own areas of expertise and have more business acumen dripping from them in terms of how to either build the foundations of a football club, how to make it successful, how to broadly move it to a level where it is flourishing and producing on relative terms, and how to link the club with different areas of the finance or business sector to encourage more partnerships for the club's benefit.
And Pelty seems fit to denigrate their stature as "These two men" without seemingly realising that "these two men" were doing one thing and one thing alone. The very best for Aston Villa. Is Lerner doing that? No, he is protecting his wealth (and you could argue rightly so). Is Krulak doing that? No, he is protecting Lerner and doing his bidding.
No, we don't know what has gone on and how Bernstein & King have behaved. But considering what Lerner has done to us short of grabbing Lerner by the throat whilst pulling a knife on him whilst the other beats up his wife and kids, there is going to be very very little support here for Lerner if two beastly men have identified him as being the problem.
Pelty, your argument is like the owner of the Big Top being annoyed at the acrobat who is complaining that he won't supply a net to stop him falling to his death . The cancer here is not Bernstein & King. It's Lerner. if anyone is behaving in a disgraceful manner it's not the people who genuinely care for Aston villa, it's those that don't. Neither you, Krulak, nor Lerner do. We were tricked when you rode into town hooting and a-hollering shooting from the hip with your yee-ha's but it turned out to be smoke and mirrors.
It’s not us who is failing to see clearly. It's not Randy who is showing a great deal of restraint. It's not Randy who is showing any signs of "class". It's not Randy who is humiliated, embarrassed, outraged, hurt, despondent, and has the emotional torment of seeing us turned into a laughing stock. That's us. The fans. The real fans. The fans who care about this club. The fans that will be here long after Lerner, and you, have gone. The fans, like King, who actually care about this club and restoring it to its rightful place. The fans who have been held in such contempt for years now. The fans who have little truck with nonsensical responses that are designed for us to side with the person who is killing our club against the 2 are trying to save it. The fans who want Lerner out. You may say that we don't know how or what Lerner and his associates really feel, well we watch every Saturday and that's enough. Go now. The lot of you.
Pete my dear friend, that sums it up for me. Well done young man
The crowds still filed in, greeting each new season with optimism, but all too soon the realisation dawned that the cheers from the stands were for nothing - everything the club once embodied had been hollowed out from the inside, leaving only a desiccated husk.
Gosh, yes.QuoteThe crowds still filed in, greeting each new season with optimism, but all too soon the realisation dawned that the cheers from the stands were for nothing - everything the club once embodied had been hollowed out from the inside, leaving only a desiccated husk.
That quote isn't about us. It's from The Guardian in 2008 on Leicesters relegation to Div One. Thing is it could quite easily be about us now.
Please excuse my ignorance but it appears Pelty has access to inside info. Who is he exactly or is it a secret?The son of General Charles Krulak.
Sounds nothing like sold or imminent. More like, I'm trying to sell, really I am, honestly.
I did not engage in any of the stuff with Pelty (indeed I never used to comment much to Krulak when he was a regular here). What I don't really get is why Pelty would come on here at all, knowing that the experiecne was likely to get ugly. It's almost like there's some sort of sado-masochistic gig going on.
... Seeing someone you love and care about, publicly wronged and held up to ridicule and all you can do is sit on the sidelines and watch it all happen whilst absolutely powerless to stop the wave after wave of humiliation and abuse hit home. That's the kind of anger and upset you're dealing with ...
A simple right to reply is pretty ingrained into any sort of media isn't it? He's right, we don't know both sides of the story but if we did, I'd guess it wouldn't change things much.
What about those who will be losing their jobs Lerner? Any word for them or is it all about how bad you feel?
What about those who will be losing their jobs Lerner? Any word for them or is it all about how bad you feel?
Perhaps he's sent a message to them separately, not in the media. Who knows?
What about those who will be losing their jobs Lerner? Any word for them or is it all about how bad you feel?
Perhaps he's sent a message to them separately, not in the media. Who knows?
You reckon?
What about those who will be losing their jobs Lerner? Any word for them or is it all about how bad you feel?
Perhaps he's sent a message to them separately, not in the media. Who knows?
You reckon?
Who knows?
It reads like the wistful sighings of a romantic nobleman draped on a plump feather bed, holding a lace handkerchief, the opium just out of reach.
I'm not interested in memories of a fucking late winner against Everton 7 years ago, like it was some sort of 0-0 against Southampton fine moment. Why does anyone want statements from this man anymore? They cover nothing and solve nothing, we just need him out of here.
Blaming himself eh?...That's real big of him
I'm not interested in memories of a fucking late winner against Everton 7 years ago, like it was some sort of 0-0 against Southampton fine moment. Why does anyone want statements from this man anymore? They cover nothing and solve nothing, we just need him out of here.
No idea - why don't you ask all those who are saying they want him to say something?
I'm not interested in memories of a fucking late winner against Everton 7 years ago, like it was some sort of 0-0 against Southampton fine moment. Why does anyone want statements from this man anymore? They cover nothing and solve nothing, we just need him out of here.
No idea - why don't you ask all those who are saying they want him to say something?
^^This.^^
He's answered calls for a statement. He's not got a buyer but he's actively looking for one - a suitable one, at that - and he's admitted it's all his fault.
He's still an absolute fool who's ruined Villa, despite his lofty intentions and really shouldn't even be put in charge of dressing himself but - whether you take his words at face value or not - I don't know what else anyone can realistically expect him to say.
Re the statement,he is ethier taking the piss or and I mean this genuinely,I fear for his mental state.
I'm not interested in memories of a fucking late winner against Everton 7 years ago, like it was some sort of 0-0 against Southampton fine moment. Why does anyone want statements from this man anymore? They cover nothing and solve nothing, we just need him out of here.
"Memories of Acorns on the shirt, and Ashley Young scoring a late winner against Everton still romantically nourish me. "
Strange references. I guess it's hard to remember too much at all when he doesn't go to the games and has managed to miss out on all the wrong kind of record-breaking landmarks.
A nagging sense of inevitability set in against Leicester City despite the late lead we enjoyed. Can't say why although I doubt I'm alone...
How many seasons after all can one hold on and hope to slide through? That is not Aston Villa. That kind of desperate existence is totally unacceptable, unbearable and totally incompatible with Villa's glorious past. That is not what, or why, I looked to get involved back then and it is why I've looked for some time to make a change. I can say certainly in good faith that I have tried to sell since my May 2014 announcement and put our beloved club in better suited hands - but that hasn't happened.
I write to Villa supporters to make clear that this relegation lies at my feet and no one else's. And because I believe in Aston Villa and know it will come back stronger and more able, with love and care for the community it serves, with the edge and attitude it must have to represent our history and tradition. Memories of Acorns on the shirt, and Ashley Young scoring a late winner against Everton still romantically nourish me. I know Villa will return better, stronger.
I will continue to try to put the club into worthy hands as I have, and also do my best to position Villa for the quickest possible return to its rightful place among England's elite.
R Lerner
Randy,
You're alone in the pack
You're feel like you wanna go home
You're feeling life's finished, but you keep going on
The reason is there
You won't find it till you've been and gone cos you're living a hoax!
Someones got you sussed!
(Chris J will understand)
The closing to that statement doesn't imply an imminent sale.
Looks like a goodbye statement.
Totally pointless statement. Why not get over here and try taking ownership of this shambles? That's better than feeling sorry for yourself
All I've learned from that, is it's going to be a terrible first novel.
Seems the usual self-centered waffle which doesn't tell us anything. No word about this week's resignations or the loyal staff who will soon be looking for new work.
Totally pointless statement. Why not get over here and try taking ownership of this shambles? That's better than feeling sorry for yourself
Totally pointless statement. Why not get over here and try taking ownership of this shambles? That's better than feeling sorry for yourself
I'd rather he stuck to his last promise of delegating authority to the board and letting them get on with what they specialise in, rather than stick his oar in and force experienced operators out.
You know when you complain to someone about something and they turn the conversation on it's head so you end up listening to their complaints?
The sub-editor of the web site obviously went in the redundancies.
That reads terribly.
Not wanting to sound callous or insensitive but why do people keep bringing up the redundancies? Unfortunately, if you are going to choose to work in a volatile industry like football, where a rubber bladder covered in leather hitting a post can mean the difference between 100 odd million pounds then they have to take the rough with the smooth. The redundancies are systematic of the relegation, i dont think he is directly responsible nor should he apologise although i suppose acknowledgement of them wouldnt have gone amiss....
Like Mattjpa, I've read it a couple of times and to me it reads like a mixture of 'goodbye, an apology and i'll put it right'. I'm swaying towards goodbye.Definitely sounds like goodbye from him. Whatever you think of Randy he came here with the best intentions but the goodwill he created in the early days has long been forgotten. The best thing he can do for us now is to drop his price and sell to another investor preferably that will be a hands on owner and not an absent landlord.
I can't see why he'd make a statement if a sale was close. He'd presumably make one after a sale goes through anyway so why bother with a pre-statement statement?
Not wanting to sound callous or insensitive but why do people keep bringing up the redundancies? Unfortunately, if you are going to choose to work in a volatile industry like football, where a rubber bladder covered in leather hitting a post can mean the difference between 100 odd million pounds then they have to take the rough with the smooth. The redundancies are systematic of the relegation, i dont think he is directly responsible nor should he apologise although i suppose acknowledgement of them wouldnt have gone amiss....
I also think that there would have been some kind of re-structuring whichever division we had been in. The club has been making huge losses for a while now, and realistically there was a need for a full scale review. I accept there may be more going due to relegation, but this happens in any business that cannot sustain the losses we have made.
As for the statement, reading anything into it is impossible. It is complete drivel from a very strange man.
If he was closing a multi million pound sale I don't think he'd be piping up with that type of statement. I could be wrong but I think he'll be doing his "best to position Villa for the quickest possible return to its rightful place among England's elite" next season. Can't wait. A nagging sense of inevitability has set in.If he has the slightest intention of doing his "best to position Villa for the quickest possible return to its rightful place among England's elite" Then he should crawl on his hands and knees to beg King and Bernstein to return to the board!
Can someone photoshop Gabby and Lescott on either side of Dupont/Lerner in this - oh and add Villa colours?
(https://fanart.tv/api/download.php?type=download&image=98079§ion=3)
I can't see why he'd make a statement if a sale was close. He'd presumably make one after a sale goes through anyway so why bother with a pre-statement statement?
Well according to SSN he is in Birmingham at the moment.....??
My take on it is that his reign has given me a few great highs such as making us feel like a big club again (at least in the first few years), Acorns, acting professionally as a club and European football again. Unfortunately these have been clouded by many lows in the more recent years, bad managers, bad players and worst of all a losing mentality throughout the club resulting in a loss of focus and identity. I think this may be and hopefully a goodbye and a sorry.
I'll settle for showing people round the facilities with Hollis.
I'll settle for showing people round the facilities with Hollis.
No thanks, he might get all teary-eyed or nostalgic and change his mind...
I liked his statement. But then I am easily duped.
I can't see why he'd make a statement if a sale was close. He'd presumably make one after a sale goes through anyway so why bother with a pre-statement statement?CD you are a Cynical Doubter :)
There seems to be too much in the media regarding various interest in purchasing the Villa not to have some substance.I am very proud of our Acorn's involvement. Name ACORNS on our shirts was just pure class.
The Acorns project is one of the finest examples of giving something to the community I have ever seen/known from a football club.
There seems to be too much in the media regarding various interest in purchasing the Villa not to have some substance.I am very proud of our Acorn's involvement. Name ACORNS on our shirts was just pure class.
The Acorns project is one of the finest examples of giving something to the community I have ever seen/known from a football club.
I liked his statement. But then I am easily duped.I liked the statement as well - I know its gone horribly wrong - but some of the stuff he did when he came in was great. It seems he must have told Doug he would invest £250 Million and he did - just a shame we wasted huge amounts of it.
The Guardian's latest take. (http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/apr/22/aston-villa-charlton-athletic-owners-relegated)
Have to say I agree with most of the comments regarding Lerner.
(Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere.)
Good articleThe Guardian's latest take. (http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/apr/22/aston-villa-charlton-athletic-owners-relegated)
Have to say I agree with most of the comments regarding Lerner.
(Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere.)
"Lerner is not a bad man…. He is simply bad at being a tycoon, and bad at running Aston Villa."
The Guardian's latest take. (http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/apr/22/aston-villa-charlton-athletic-owners-relegated)
Have to say I agree with most of the comments regarding Lerner.
(Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere.)
"Lerner is not a bad man…. He is simply bad at being a tycoon, and bad at running Aston Villa."
The Guardian's latest take. (http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/apr/22/aston-villa-charlton-athletic-owners-relegated)
Have to say I agree with most of the comments regarding Lerner.
(Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere.)
"Lerner is not a bad man…. He is simply bad at being a tycoon, and bad at running Aston Villa."
He shot for the stars and fell just short - a number of reasons for this, not least MON's limited transfer acumen. He turned off the tap far too quickly though and the subsequent demise falls squarely on his shoulders, the only consolation being we haven't quite 'done a Leeds.' Obviously his ownership of the club has been an unmitigated disaster. He's aware of this and I'm sure it hurts him emotionally as well as financially. I know people will say he can't hurt like a 'real fan', but I suspect he would dispute that.
The Guardian's latest take. (http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/apr/22/aston-villa-charlton-athletic-owners-relegated)
Have to say I agree with most of the comments regarding Lerner.
(Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere.)
"Lerner is not a bad man…. He is simply bad at being a tycoon, and bad at running Aston Villa."
I think it's because he's not a bad man that's he is a bad owner. He's not ruthless enough with people that he likes and he thinks that they'll be as loyal as he is.He shot for the stars and fell just short - a number of reasons for this, not least MON's limited transfer acumen. He turned off the tap far too quickly though and the subsequent demise falls squarely on his shoulders, the only consolation being we haven't quite 'done a Leeds.' Obviously his ownership of the club has been an unmitigated disaster. He's aware of this and I'm sure it hurts him emotionally as well as financially. I know people will say he can't hurt like a 'real fan', but I suspect he would dispute that.
This is always the bit I find frustrating, we didn't 'do a leeds' precisely because he turned the taps off when he did, a big part of our problems is because he should've turned them off a year sooner but he was determined to back MON to break the top 4. Another summer of mon-style big spending (instead of forcing sell to buy leading to mon walking out) and I think we'd be in a much worse situation with administration a far more realistic prospect.
The Guardian's latest take. (http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/apr/22/aston-villa-charlton-athletic-owners-relegated)
Have to say I agree with most of the comments regarding Lerner.
(Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere.)
"Lerner is not a bad man…. He is simply bad at being a tycoon, and bad at running Aston Villa."
I think it's because he's not a bad man that's he is a bad owner. He's not ruthless enough with people that he likes and he thinks that they'll be as loyal as he is.He shot for the stars and fell just short - a number of reasons for this, not least MON's limited transfer acumen. He turned off the tap far too quickly though and the subsequent demise falls squarely on his shoulders, the only consolation being we haven't quite 'done a Leeds.' Obviously his ownership of the club has been an unmitigated disaster. He's aware of this and I'm sure it hurts him emotionally as well as financially. I know people will say he can't hurt like a 'real fan', but I suspect he would dispute that.
This is always the bit I find frustrating, we didn't 'do a leeds' precisely because he turned the taps off when he did, a big part of our problems is because he should've turned them off a year sooner but he was determined to back MON to break the top 4. Another summer of mon-style big spending (instead of forcing sell to buy leading to mon walking out) and I think we'd be in a much worse situation with administration a far more realistic prospect.
I drove past a bloke in a Porsche earlier and thought that he looked just like Randy Lerner, maybe it was.
Are we going through the Randy Lerner revisionism stage already? It took us at least a couple of years to turn Ellis into cuddly Uncle Doug.
Oh, well. Good old Randy, our Randy, the mosaics, Acorns, The Holte pub, the scarves and that free coach to Chelsea... Sigh. Etc.
I liked his statement. But then I am easily duped.I liked the statement as well - I know its gone horribly wrong - but some of the stuff he did when he came in was great. It seems he must have told Doug he would invest £250 Million and he did - just a shame we wasted huge amounts of it.
I think we all get nostalgic about moments in the past - and the Everton goal was one of my fave moments, Lescotts face when Young scores is class - should show that moment again on the big screen again. Because lescott never seems that upset when we let a goal in these days. The Sheffield United Game when the European winners came out before Kick off - the whole ground was bouncing - loved it. I also loved the Chelsea goal, when Lerner and Faulkner were jumping on each other... I think he does genuinely feel for the club and glad he has some memories of his and our team, his arrogance/inexperience has cost the club badly, as well as himself financially, I just hope he sells to the right person - and if we have had to hang on till now to find the next and right custodian to lead us forward then so be it...I know i'm in the minority and this week with the board resignations I was furious, but I struggle to detest the man. Not the right man for the job, but I think he wanted to work.
His statement makes me feel sad. It reads as goodbye. I'm sad for where we are now and the unfulfilled promise if the early days. He's a decent man, what a shame it didn't work out..
It's easy to take the piss, but he's a man of few words and a bit of an enigma. I quite like the statement. He has accepted blame and his passion for the club does come through. There wasn't much he could say that wouldn't be met with derision - damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I can't recall ever feeling more positive about the club than when he bought us out and he appointed O'Neil. Cup finals, top 6 finishes, Acorns on the shirt - halcyon days. He shot for the stars and fell just short - a number of reasons for this, not least MON's limited transfer acumen. He turned off the tap far too quickly though and the subsequent demise falls squarely on his shoulders, the only consolation being we haven't quite 'done a Leeds.' Obviously his ownership of the club has been an unmitigated disaster. He's aware of this and I'm sure it hurts him emotionally as well as financially. I know people will say he can't hurt like a 'real fan', but I suspect he would dispute that.
Hopefully his final act will be to hand us over to someone credible, with the right motives and finances to get us back on track. We need that one last favour from him, let's all hope he comes through. If he does I will wish him well. His stewardship has ultimately be hugely disappointing, but there is no doubt in my mind he came into this with the very best of intentions.
Spot. He could see where we were going and did fuck all about it. False narrative.His statement makes me feel sad. It reads as goodbye. I'm sad for where we are now and the unfulfilled promise if the early days. He's a decent man, what a shame it didn't work out..
I don't get where people get the "he's a decent man" routine from. He shafted the club like we've never been shafted before and it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. How are these the actions of a decent man?
His statement makes me feel sad. It reads as goodbye. I'm sad for where we are now and the unfulfilled promise if the early days. He's a decent man, what a shame it didn't work out..
I don't get where people get the "he's a decent man" routine from. He shafted the club like we've never been shafted before and it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. How are these the actions of a decent man?
Apologies if this has already been covered, but you know in the film Foxcatcher, where Randy Lerner shoots Olympic wrestler David Schulz - well, did that take place before or after he bought the Villa?
You make it sound like he wanted this to happen. Making bad decisions and taking bad advice does not mean deliberately shafting the club. I'm pretty sure he would prefer us to be top 6 and himself £350m better off. Nobody is defending the decisions over the last few years and the results are self evident. But denying he started with the best intentions and wanted the best for the club seems petty and pointless.Spot. He could see where we were going and did fuck all about it. False narrative.His statement makes me feel sad. It reads as goodbye. I'm sad for where we are now and the unfulfilled promise if the early days. He's a decent man, what a shame it didn't work out..
I don't get where people get the "he's a decent man" routine from. He shafted the club like we've never been shafted before and it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. How are these the actions of a decent man?
His statement makes me feel sad. It reads as goodbye. I'm sad for where we are now and the unfulfilled promise if the early days. He's a decent man, what a shame it didn't work out..
I don't get where people get the "he's a decent man" routine from. He shafted the club like we've never been shafted before and it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. How are these the actions of a decent man?
Because even if the end result is the same, people are likely to be more forgiving if something happens through incompetence rather than through malice.
I can't see why he'd make a statement if a sale was close. He'd presumably make one after a sale goes through anyway so why bother with a pre-statement statement?CD you are a Cynical Doubter :)
His statement makes me feel sad. It reads as goodbye. I'm sad for where we are now and the unfulfilled promise if the early days. He's a decent man, what a shame it didn't work out..
I don't get where people get the "he's a decent man" routine from. He shafted the club like we've never been shafted before and it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. How are these the actions of a decent man?
Because even if the end result is the same, people are likely to be more forgiving if something happens through incompetence rather than through malice.
Hoot
A number of people have been hooting that they want an apology from Lerner, and that's what they've got. Many of those same people are still hooting.
I'm not apologising for Lerner, he's stuffed it up horribly and an apology hasn't miraculously made it all better. But hooters will hoot...
Woof
To rephrase he appears to be a decent man. He's made mistakes and they've cost him and us dearly. To say he's shafted the club implies he's acted with malice, whereas I feel he's bungled every important decision he's had to make. In short he's a bit of dick, well intentioned but a dick nonetheless.His statement makes me feel sad. It reads as goodbye. I'm sad for where we are now and the unfulfilled promise if the early days. He's a decent man, what a shame it didn't work out..
I don't get where people get the "he's a decent man" routine from. He shafted the club like we've never been shafted before and it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. How are these the actions of a decent man?
The only two decent appointments he's made since he's been here were recently - and they lasted weeks. He's sounds now like a sulky child who's broken his favourite toy. This statement is pathetic and says nothing, just that he's a self-pitying fool . Much rather we saw his recent email exchange to get a measure of the man and more insight into what the hell is going on.
His statement makes me feel sad. It reads as goodbye. I'm sad for where we are now and the unfulfilled promise if the early days. He's a decent man, what a shame it didn't work out..
I don't get where people get the "he's a decent man" routine from. He shafted the club like we've never been shafted before and it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. How are these the actions of a decent man?
The Guardian's latest take. (http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/apr/22/aston-villa-charlton-athletic-owners-relegated)
Have to say I agree with most of the comments regarding Lerner.
(Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere.)
Most appropriately expressed Pete!His statement makes me feel sad. It reads as goodbye. I'm sad for where we are now and the unfulfilled promise if the early days. He's a decent man, what a shame it didn't work out..
I don't get where people get the "he's a decent man" routine from. He shafted the club like we've never been shafted before and it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. How are these the actions of a decent man?
A decent man in the same way the characters Laurel and Hardy played were decent? Amiable, well meaning but ultimately incompetent and accident prone.
The only two decent appointments he's made since he's been here were recently - and they lasted weeks. He's sounds now like a sulky child who's broken his favourite toy. This statement is pathetic and says nothing, just that he's a self-pitying fool . Much rather we saw his recent email exchange to get a measure of the man and more insight into what the hell is going on.
Agreed. The "he's a decent guy" routine bugs me though because he clearly hasn't treated our club and the fans decent over the years. In fact he's humiliated them. He should be treated with the contempt he deserves.
Pretty much where I am, John.The only two decent appointments he's made since he's been here were recently - and they lasted weeks. He's sounds now like a sulky child who's broken his favourite toy. This statement is pathetic and says nothing, just that he's a self-pitying fool . Much rather we saw his recent email exchange to get a measure of the man and more insight into what the hell is going on.
Agreed. The "he's a decent guy" routine bugs me though because he clearly hasn't treated our club and the fans decent over the years. In fact he's humiliated them. He should be treated with the contempt he deserves.
Disagree, he's made mistakes, big mistakes
I've made massive mistakes in my own life it happens we don't always get everything right
but I don't think he wanted or meant any of this to happen, I also feel a bit sorry for him,
I understand the hatred of him, I do, but I don't share it,
i've never sang the randy song, not even at old Trafford when we went down, I think he's caught in a maelstrom of misfortune much of his own making but ultimately he's a decent guy
The sooner he gets out the better, but I don't hate the guy
His statement makes me feel sad. It reads as goodbye. I'm sad for where we are now and the unfulfilled promise if the early days. He's a decent man, what a shame it didn't work out..
I don't get where people get the "he's a decent man" routine from. He shafted the club like we've never been shafted before and it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. How are these the actions of a decent man?
A decent man in the same way the characters Laurel and Hardy played were decent? Amiable, well meaning but ultimately incompetent and accident prone.
More than anything he's been let down by the various people he's appointed. Managers, coaches, chief execs... they've all been shit. His choices of recruit have been terrible.
The only two decent appointments he's made since he's been here were recently - and they lasted weeks. He's sounds now like a sulky child who's broken his favourite toy. This statement is pathetic and says nothing, just that he's a self-pitying fool . Much rather we saw his recent email exchange to get a measure of the man and more insight into what the hell is going on.Randy didn't appoint B & K, Hollis did.
Wasn't Diamond in charge of Barclays when they were manipulating the market rate? Give me morals and competency in a leader, then you have some of the traits required.
Pity they were replaced by dubious gambling companies - and the shirts were then worn by dubiously described footballersI do not like the gambling associated shirts. A deeply religious person would tell me that they have brought a curse on our house!
Pity they were replaced by dubious gambling companies - and the shirts were then worn by dubiously described footballersI do not like the gambling associated shirts. A deeply religious person would tell me that they have brought a curse on our house!
Yes true we should have! But God was out that day and Buddha doesn't like football and as far as Allah is concerned he/she has never been pleased with us (I think).
Randolph's statement made me feel a whole lot better, like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders.
This explains comprehensively the last 10 years in the wilderness, the depression has been lifted, l can see the light.
The path is clear, the gardens rosy, god has at last spoken.
Pass me my medication I don't know whether to laugh cry or commit suicide.
Too f***ing little too f***ing late. Get the ambulance to take me away to the nuthouse
Who, Buddha?
Who, Buddha?
A chap who sits near be is a dead ringer in fact I can't believe it's not Buddha.
Sorry for my late reply but thanks for that. Blimey he should be "in the know" then.Please excuse my ignorance but it appears Pelty has access to inside info. Who is he exactly or is it a secret?The son of General Charles Krulak.
Any sighting of the lesser spotted Lerner at Villa Park today! I was in upper Trinity so didn't notice any thing!Probably behind the sofa in his private jet parked at Elmdon.
Any sighting of the lesser spotted Lerner at Villa Park today! I was in upper Trinity so didn't notice any thing!Probably behind the sofa in his private jet parked at Elmdon.
He feels more secure and safe there, 'specially with his comfort blanket.
He's selling his private plane.Low miles, hardly used, one
I hope it's more the case that he no longer needs it for the occasional flight to Birmingham.
I hope it's more the case that he no longer needs it for the occasional flight to Birmingham.
Maybe Ellison's buying it off him.
I hope it's more the case that he no longer needs it for the occasional flight to Birmingham.
Maybe Ellison's buying it off him.
Could all be part of the deal
Looking at numbers against his name I would suggest Ellison already has one if not two.I hope it's more the case that he no longer needs it for the occasional flight to Birmingham.
Maybe Ellison's buying it off him.
Looking at numbers against his name I would suggest Ellison already has one if not two.I hope it's more the case that he no longer needs it for the occasional flight to Birmingham.
Maybe Ellison's buying it off him.
It was like one of those modern apologies, when you own up to something, acknowledge what you've done, but don't apologise for it.
It was like one of those modern apologies, when you own up to something, acknowledge what you've done, but don't apologise for it.
I remember a thread in off topic about modern day apologies.
It was like one of those modern apologies, when you own up to something, acknowledge what you've done, but don't apologise for it.
I remember a thread in off topic about modern day apologies.
"We need to draw a line under this and look at how we can move forward"
Yes true we should have! But God was out that day and Buddha doesn't like football and as far as Allah is concerned he/she has never been pleased with us (I think).
I blame the lawyers, if you out right state that you're sorry and take all the blame then any legal action has that to use against you so always have to give yourself wiggle room. Anyone with media training or who's running a company should know just that so these half apologies are unavoidable, I had to go through a training session about this myself a couple of years ago as part of us moving heavily into the US market and the basis was never offer anything that hasn't been asked for, never agree to anything without it being in writing (and then make sure it's reviewed before you reply) and never take responsibility for anything goes wrong, either personally or as a company.
Before any resident legal folk get upset, I don't blame you individually, I blame the overly litigious abomination that a large amount of your profession has become.
I blame the lawyers, if you out right state that you're sorry and take all the blame then any legal action has that to use against you so always have to give yourself wiggle room. Anyone with media training or who's running a company should know just that so these half apologies are unavoidable, I had to go through a training session about this myself a couple of years ago as part of us moving heavily into the US market and the basis was never offer anything that hasn't been asked for, never agree to anything without it being in writing (and then make sure it's reviewed before you reply) and never take responsibility for anything goes wrong, either personally or as a company.
Before any resident legal folk get upset, I don't blame you individually, I blame the overly litigious abomination that a large amount of your profession has become.
I'm not arguing with any of this but it would suggest that Lerner's semi coherent, rambling, mystical, nonsensical, non-apology of a post on the website was actually proof read by his lawyers? Fuck me, his choice of advisors is worse than his choice of managers.
And I don't care whether he apologises or not, it's all his fault anyway and he can't fuck off soon enough for me.
I blame the lawyers, if you out right state that you're sorry and take all the blame then any legal action has that to use against you so always have to give yourself wiggle room. Anyone with media training or who's running a company should know just that so these half apologies are unavoidable, I had to go through a training session about this myself a couple of years ago as part of us moving heavily into the US market and the basis was never offer anything that hasn't been asked for, never agree to anything without it being in writing (and then make sure it's reviewed before you reply) and never take responsibility for anything goes wrong, either personally or as a company.
Before any resident legal folk get upset, I don't blame you individually, I blame the overly litigious abomination that a large amount of your profession has become.
I'm not arguing with any of this but it would suggest that Lerner's semi coherent, rambling, mystical, nonsensical, non-apology of a post on the website was actually proof read by his lawyers? Fuck me, his choice of advisors is worse than his choice of managers.
And I don't care whether he apologises or not, it's all his fault anyway and he can't fuck off soon enough for me.
Given he is a qualified lawyer I'd suggest not but that he does know enough to, much like a politician, ramble on without ever actually fully addressing the issue.
I blame the lawyers, if you out right state that you're sorry and take all the blame then any legal action has that to use against you so always have to give yourself wiggle room. Anyone with media training or who's running a company should know just that so these half apologies are unavoidable, I had to go through a training session about this myself a couple of years ago as part of us moving heavily into the US market and the basis was never offer anything that hasn't been asked for, never agree to anything without it being in writing (and then make sure it's reviewed before you reply) and never take responsibility for anything goes wrong, either personally or as a company.
Before any resident legal folk get upset, I don't blame you individually, I blame the overly litigious abomination that a large amount of your profession has become.
I'm not arguing with any of this but it would suggest that Lerner's semi coherent, rambling, mystical, nonsensical, non-apology of a post on the website was actually proof read by his lawyers? Fuck me, his choice of advisors is worse than his choice of managers.
And I don't care whether he apologises or not, it's all his fault anyway and he can't fuck off soon enough for me.
Given he is a qualified lawyer I'd suggest not but that he does know enough to, much like a politician, ramble on without ever actually fully addressing the issue.
I'd forgotten about Randy's GCSE in Law.
I blame the lawyers, if you out right state that you're sorry and take all the blame then any legal action has that to use against you so always have to give yourself wiggle room. Anyone with media training or who's running a company should know just that so these half apologies are unavoidable, I had to go through a training session about this myself a couple of years ago as part of us moving heavily into the US market and the basis was never offer anything that hasn't been asked for, never agree to anything without it being in writing (and then make sure it's reviewed before you reply) and never take responsibility for anything goes wrong, either personally or as a company.
Before any resident legal folk get upset, I don't blame you individually, I blame the overly litigious abomination that a large amount of your profession has become.
I'm not arguing with any of this but it would suggest that Lerner's semi coherent, rambling, mystical, nonsensical, non-apology of a post on the website was actually proof read by his lawyers? Fuck me, his choice of advisors is worse than his choice of managers.
And I don't care whether he apologises or not, it's all his fault anyway and he can't fuck off soon enough for me.
Given he is a qualified lawyer I'd suggest not but that he does know enough to, much like a politician, ramble on without ever actually fully addressing the issue.
I'd forgotten about Randy's GCSE in Law.
that cock cant tie his shoe laces, IF his got GCSE in Law, he will have bought it.
I blame the lawyers, if you out right state that you're sorry and take all the blame then any legal action has that to use against you so always have to give yourself wiggle room. Anyone with media training or who's running a company should know just that so these half apologies are unavoidable, I had to go through a training session about this myself a couple of years ago as part of us moving heavily into the US market and the basis was never offer anything that hasn't been asked for, never agree to anything without it being in writing (and then make sure it's reviewed before you reply) and never take responsibility for anything goes wrong, either personally or as a company.
Before any resident legal folk get upset, I don't blame you individually, I blame the overly litigious abomination that a large amount of your profession has become.
I'm not arguing with any of this but it would suggest that Lerner's semi coherent, rambling, mystical, nonsensical, non-apology of a post on the website was actually proof read by his lawyers? Fuck me, his choice of advisors is worse than his choice of managers.
And I don't care whether he apologises or not, it's all his fault anyway and he can't fuck off soon enough for me.
Given he is a qualified lawyer I'd suggest not but that he does know enough to, much like a politician, ramble on without ever actually fully addressing the issue.
I'd forgotten about Randy's GCSE in Law.
that cock cant tie his shoe laces, IF his got GCSE in Law, he will have bought it.
Or maybe he's a fully qualified lawyer who's registered on the US Bar. As I've said before it's very easy to call him thick but being incapable of running a business and being thick are very different things. Incompetent is a much better term for him.
I still reckon he's thick. Any old billionaire's son can get a decent education
Something I didn't realise until recently is that whilst he was going through school, his dad wasn't a billionaire. The money came when RL was in his 20s.
Something I didn't realise until recently is that whilst he was going through school, his dad wasn't a billionaire. The money came when RL was in his 20s.
Jeez.... The founder of AMEX..American Express...suddenly made a financial breakthrough from millionaire to BILLIONAIRE when Randy was in his 20's....what a lot of trollope.
Something I didn't realise until recently is that whilst he was going through school, his dad wasn't a billionaire. The money came when RL was in his 20s.
Jeez.... The founder of AMEX..American Express...suddenly made a financial breakthrough from millionaire to BILLIONAIRE when Randy was in his 20's....what a lot of trollope.
I'd have thought that somebody with such a demonstrably sneery attitude towards the subject would know that MBNA (which Al Lerner turned into a huge company) and American Express (which is over 150 years old and nothing to do with the Lerner family) aren't the same thing.
I can safely reassure everyone that there is not a lawyer in the world who would have advised Randy Lerner not to apologise for relegation for legal reasons.
He doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the box.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sQHrYE8MnUc
He doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the box.That was his final indecision.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sQHrYE8MnUc
I think.
I can safely reassure everyone that there is not a lawyer in the world who would have advised Randy Lerner not to apologise for relegation for legal reasons.
Other than Randy himself, maybe.
I can safely reassure everyone that there is not a lawyer in the world who would have advised Randy Lerner not to apologise for relegation for legal reasons.