Randy Lerner

[Mister E]

How many decent managers will accept that way of purchasing players?

Most of them, because unless there is an endless money-pit everyone has to extract value from their players (from a combination of their onfield contribution and selling them for a profit).

[pauliewalnuts]

What moneyball are we doing? The same as we and most clubs have always done, try and find value for money and players that will approve over time? Why wasn't it moneyball when Lambert was doing the first couple otf years? Why are Amavi, Ghana etc moneyball signings but Westwood, Helenius etc weren't? Was Benteke a moneyball signing?

I suppose it boils down to who is choosing the signings. The manager has to agree to the incoming players, surely? I'm not defending Sherwood here, but there has to be some synergy between the system of recruitment and the man who has to make it gel and work.

Sherwood said originally he had the final word on all the signings.

Rudy Can't Fail posted this earlier:

Vertout?

'I'm really pleased Jordan decided to choose Aston Villa over the other options he had and opt to continue his development with us,'
'He is only 22 years old but he is vastly experienced for someone that age'
'He has played over 140 games in Ligue 1 and is a really exciting young player.
'I know he is very highly rated over in France so we are delighted to get this deal over the line.'

Amavi?

Sherwood told the Birmingham Mail: "It’s someone we’ve been tracking for a long time."
“He was voted the best U21 player in Europe (by whoscored.com).
“He’s dynamic, gets forward, has a good delivery, and is a decent size for a left-back.
'He’s quick and aggressive and will be suited to the Premier League. He plays at a high tempo and French football is quite close to the English league so that will help.
“It will give us competition and will be a decent addition"

Gueye?
"What Idrissa gives you is 100% every time he plays," Sherwood said.
"He is wholehearted, he suits the Premier League and he loves the pace of the game.
"He is very aggressive, he gets at people, wants to tackle and wants to get on the football.
"He is brave in and out of possession - and that's something you want to see.
"We are really pleased with him. He has been outstanding."

Ayew?
“I’m really pleased to bring Jordan to the football club. He is a fantastic young player who is perfectly suited to the Premier League.”

Adama?
“I went to Barcelona and spoke to the representatives,”
“We made a huge effort to bring him to the club because I’ve known him for a couple of years."
“He is someone I have been tracking for a long time."

Lescott?
"Joleon is a player who has great Premier League experience and he'll be a huge help to the younger members of our squad,"
"I said before I didn't think someone of that experience would become available [for Villa], someone who ticks that 'experienced' box that would help out the group. If he became available then we would jump on him."

Rudy?
“I’ve known about Rudy since he was at Cardiff City and he is a player I’ve always admired."
“His goalscoring ratio last season was fantastic and he is someone who certainly knows how to find the back of the net."
“He’s a big, physical striker but he can play and I’m pleased to welcome him to the football club.”

[saunders_heroes]

I'm lashing out at the chairman because he is the sole reason we find ourselves a laughing stock. The whole sorry mess is down to him running the club on a relative shoestring, and if you pay peanuts you attract monkeys. I for one don't like the structure. I'd prefer a strong manager who signs the players he wants not ones chosen by others.
Until Lerner opens his wallet and spends big money or sells up this is going to continue. Obviously you know this anyway.

If Lerner is the sole reason we're a laughing stock, are you absolving Sherwood of blame?

As for wages, you reckon Sherwood is on peanuts? How much more do you reckon some of the managers doing much better than him are on by comparison? Do you reckon Koeman, Monk, Bilic et al, all managers doing way better, are on double his wages?

This entire "manager who chooses the players himself" thing is based on something Sherwood has leaked to his mates in the media. This time two weeks ago there wasn't a whisper about it on here.

Lerner does not have to spend huge amounts to do significantly better than we are. I don't know about you, but I'd take anyone's arm off for a nice mid table finish right about now. That's not going to cost an arm and a leg.

This is not a squad to challenge for the top six, but then again, it isn't a bottom six squad either. The fact we are is down to the manager.

How many more managers are we going to blame for this sorry mess?
I don't want Sherwood as our boss but let's face it he was probably only hired because he was relatively cheap and was willing to take on the job knowing the restrictions on the wage/transfer budget. We've had more than 5 years of Lerner hacking away at our wage budget and the selling of our best players only to replaced by lower league crap and cheap foreigners and consequently the team and club has declined. That isn't the managers' fault it's the chairman's.
No decent manager will come to the club while we run the club on a shoestring, and that is our problem in a nutshell which is 100% down to Randy Lerner in my humble opinion.

[Jimbo]

What moneyball are we doing? The same as we and most clubs have always done, try and find value for money and players that will approve over time? Why wasn't it moneyball when Lambert was doing the first couple otf years? Why are Amavi, Ghana etc moneyball signings but Westwood, Helenius etc weren't? Was Benteke a moneyball signing?

I suppose it boils down to who is choosing the signings. The manager has to agree to the incoming players, surely? I'm not defending Sherwood here, but there has to be some synergy between the system of recruitment and the man who has to make it gel and work.

Sherwood said originally he had the final word on all the signings.

Rudy Can't Fail posted this earlier:

Vertout?

'I'm really pleased Jordan decided to choose Aston Villa over the other options he had and opt to continue his development with us,'
'He is only 22 years old but he is vastly experienced for someone that age'
'He has played over 140 games in Ligue 1 and is a really exciting young player.
'I know he is very highly rated over in France so we are delighted to get this deal over the line.'

Amavi?

Sherwood told the Birmingham Mail: "It’s someone we’ve been tracking for a long time."
“He was voted the best U21 player in Europe (by whoscored.com).
“He’s dynamic, gets forward, has a good delivery, and is a decent size for a left-back.
'He’s quick and aggressive and will be suited to the Premier League. He plays at a high tempo and French football is quite close to the English league so that will help.
“It will give us competition and will be a decent addition"

Gueye?
"What Idrissa gives you is 100% every time he plays," Sherwood said.
"He is wholehearted, he suits the Premier League and he loves the pace of the game.
"He is very aggressive, he gets at people, wants to tackle and wants to get on the football.
"He is brave in and out of possession - and that's something you want to see.
"We are really pleased with him. He has been outstanding."

Ayew?
“I’m really pleased to bring Jordan to the football club. He is a fantastic young player who is perfectly suited to the Premier League.”

Adama?
“I went to Barcelona and spoke to the representatives,”
“We made a huge effort to bring him to the club because I’ve known him for a couple of years."
“He is someone I have been tracking for a long time."

Lescott?
"Joleon is a player who has great Premier League experience and he'll be a huge help to the younger members of our squad,"
"I said before I didn't think someone of that experience would become available [for Villa], someone who ticks that 'experienced' box that would help out the group. If he became available then we would jump on him."

Rudy?
“I’ve known about Rudy since he was at Cardiff City and he is a player I’ve always admired."
“His goalscoring ratio last season was fantastic and he is someone who certainly knows how to find the back of the net."
“He’s a big, physical striker but he can play and I’m pleased to welcome him to the football club.”

I don't care what Sherwood says, he's an idiot and needs to go. What I'm talking about is the system and whether it works.

If moneyball is when the management team analyse data in order to recruit players on a budget, then that's fair enough, you don't necessarily need football men to do that. But you need to apply it to the team and the league that team is competing in, which takes a football man.

The way I see it, that system is prone to failure if there is no synergy between the money men and the football men. For example, Veretout's data might be impeccable, but the reality of him gelling within a team that's immediately under pressure of relegation, and which is already trying to integrate many other overseas players like him, may not be practical. It would take a football man (not Sherwood) to know whether it's going to work or not, to advise on the right blend of players, i.e. the team.

[pauliewalnuts]

How many more managers are we going to blame for this sorry mess?

I don't remember you being so supportive of Lambert if you think it is wrong to be blaming the managers. Or McLeish, for that matter.

Once again, I don't disagree with your view on Lerner's incompetence. He hasn't got the first clue.

My only point was that given a choice of manager sacked and the structure we have in place now here versus the manager getting sacked and Paul Faulkner on the phone to Lerner every other day desperately trying to sort it out, I'd prefer what we have now.

I'm not saying they're some crack team of football administrators, but they are at least people who understand the football industry.

The fact is, Lerner is not going to start to spend huge money again, is he? So we are going to have to do as well as we can within those parameters.

Currently and for the last few years we have failed to even do as well as you might expect within those limits. Nowhere near, in fact.

It'd be nice to get a mid table finish, for example. It's not what we want for the club for decades to come, but it's a lot better than this shit year in, year out.

If you've just decided we're going to float around the relegation places regardless, then there's not even any point in taking an interest in who the manager is, is there?

[PeterWithesShin]

Analysing data is sabermetrics, not moneyball.

[Jimbo]

Analysing data is sabermetrics, not moneyball.

What's moneyball?

[saunders_heroes]

How many more managers are we going to blame for this sorry mess?

I don't remember you being so supportive of Lambert if you think it is wrong to be blaming the managers. Or McLeish, for that matter.

Once again, I don't disagree with your view on Lerner's incompetence. He hasn't got the first clue.

My only point was that given a choice of manager sacked and the structure we have in place now here versus the manager getting sacked and Paul Faulkner on the phone to Lerner every other day desperately trying to sort it out.

The fact is, he's not going to start to spend huge money again, is he? So we are going to have to do as well as we can within those parameters.

Currently and for the last few years we have failed to even do as well as you might expect within those limits. Nowhere near, in fact.

If you've just decided we're going to float around the relegation places regardless, then there's not even any point in taking an interest in who the manager is, is there?

I was never a fan of any of the managers employed since O'Neill walked but as I said earlier, you pay peanuts you attract monkeys. Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood prove that. They never stood a chance. What was their remit? Cut wages buy relatively cheap and keep us in the PL?
That's your problem and it's 100% down to the chairman.

PS - yes I'm interested in who the new manager is because perhaps the new one will give us a short term lift (like Sherwood gave) and keep us in this bloody league.

[Dave]

No decent manager will come to the club while we run the club on a shoestring, and that is our problem in a nutshell which is 100% down to Randy Lerner in my humble opinion.

So if that's the main problem, how do you account for managers at the likes of Stoke, Swansea, Crystal Palace and (urgh) West Brom all spending less money than us over the last few years and doing considerably better?

Surely as they are being run on even more of a "shoestring" than us then no decent managers are going to want to go to them either?

As Paulie said earlier, we're not being run on anything like the financial footing to be challenging the top six, but we're in no way running on a financial footing to be hanging around the bottom three either.

[pauliewalnuts]

How many more managers are we going to blame for this sorry mess?

I don't remember you being so supportive of Lambert if you think it is wrong to be blaming the managers. Or McLeish, for that matter.

Once again, I don't disagree with your view on Lerner's incompetence. He hasn't got the first clue.

My only point was that given a choice of manager sacked and the structure we have in place now here versus the manager getting sacked and Paul Faulkner on the phone to Lerner every other day desperately trying to sort it out.

The fact is, he's not going to start to spend huge money again, is he? So we are going to have to do as well as we can within those parameters.

Currently and for the last few years we have failed to even do as well as you might expect within those limits. Nowhere near, in fact.

If you've just decided we're going to float around the relegation places regardless, then there's not even any point in taking an interest in who the manager is, is there?

I was never a fan of any of the managers employed since O'Neill walked but as I said earlier, you pay peanuts you attract monkeys. Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood prove that. They never stood a chance. What was their remit? Cut wages buy relatively cheap and keep us in the PL?
That's your problem and it's 100% down to the chairman.

Houllier broke our transfer record. I wouldn't say his time here proved anything, really.

As for McLeish and Lambert never standing a chance, once again, I don't recall you taking that view when we were all gagging for them to get the sack.

[Clampy]

I don't call paying Charles N'Zogbia 65k a week doing things on the cheap.

[German James]

What's moneyball?

Ditto!

[saunders_heroes]

No decent manager will come to the club while we run the club on a shoestring, and that is our problem in a nutshell which is 100% down to Randy Lerner in my humble opinion.

So if that's the main problem, how do you account for managers at the likes of Stoke, Swansea, Crystal Palace and (urgh) West Brom all spending less money than us over the last few years and doing considerably better?

Surely as they are being run on even more of a "shoestring" than us then no decent managers are going to want to go to them either?

As Paulie said earlier, we're not being run on anything like the financial footing to be challenging the top six, but we're in no way running on a financial footing to be hanging around the bottom three either.

5+years of cutbacks at this club, our best players sold and replaced by shite not fit to wear the shirt. "Young and hungry" lower league rubbish wrapped up in tinsel hoping the fans will fall for the lies and the slow decline of the club. That's the difference between us and those clubs you mention.
I won't let Lerner off the hook so easily.

[pauliewalnuts]

PS - yes I'm interested in who the new manager is because perhaps the new one will give us a short term lift (like Sherwood gave) and keep us in this bloody league.

One who could get us performing at something approaching the level the squad suggests we should be would be a step in the right direction.

That's why I got the under-spending part but had no sympathy for the likes of Lambert. He failed to even do that. He didn't even get close.

That's why Lambert was at fault. Not because he didn't get us in the top six, that was never going to happen without more investment, but because he had us in the bottom five or so, which shouldn't have been the case.

Ditto Sherwood.

[saunders_heroes]

How many more managers are we going to blame for this sorry mess?

I don't remember you being so supportive of Lambert if you think it is wrong to be blaming the managers. Or McLeish, for that matter.

Once again, I don't disagree with your view on Lerner's incompetence. He hasn't got the first clue.

My only point was that given a choice of manager sacked and the structure we have in place now here versus the manager getting sacked and Paul Faulkner on the phone to Lerner every other day desperately trying to sort it out.

The fact is, he's not going to start to spend huge money again, is he? So we are going to have to do as well as we can within those parameters.

Currently and for the last few years we have failed to even do as well as you might expect within those limits. Nowhere near, in fact.

If you've just decided we're going to float around the relegation places regardless, then there's not even any point in taking an interest in who the manager is, is there?

I was never a fan of any of the managers employed since O'Neill walked but as I said earlier, you pay peanuts you attract monkeys. Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood prove that. They never stood a chance. What was their remit? Cut wages buy relatively cheap and keep us in the PL?
That's your problem and it's 100% down to the chairman.

Houllier broke our transfer record. I wouldn't say his time here proved anything, really.

As for McLeish and Lambert never standing a chance, once again, I don't recall you taking that view when we were all gagging for them to get the sack.

I did want them to get the sack, but you know what I hoped Lerner would come to his senses and start investing the the club again. How wrong I was. It was more of the bloody same.