Randy Lerner

[ChicagoLion]

Interesting comparison, the problem with Doug was his ego permeated everything.
So as DW pointed out every time we were in a position to move to the next level doug spurned it and this was with good managers Taylor, Gregory Atkinson and Little running good teams.
Lerner has made some dreadfull appointments and awful decisions.
Doug can point at some League Cups and 2 runners up and one relegation.
Lerner 2 lost finals and 1 relegation.

[pbavfckuwait]

Definitely started something with the Doug revision, but I think all areas have been covered , he is a man who whilst he was here split opinion, nice to see he has not lost his touch the old git even in his 90's.

But back to Lerner, people only see the decisions since he cut back to be the problem, but in my view this is false also, that decision to cut back became necessary because of his bad management up to that point, yes I agree with Dave that he built up expectation by stating the aim was for top 4 and the Chumps league and that was what where we believe we should be, lets be fair that first game in August, we all have that one percent in the back of our mind that this could be our year, not withstanding the nurse with the medicine next to us.

But we are where we are now because of a total lack of expenditure on suitable players and not seeming to have a set plan, still not convinced we have a financial structure in place now, that is based on Premier League football and our expectations have been managed to very low levels.

That places us where we are now and to a certain extent Remi having a free run at least up to January and I still do not believe he will be given funds in January, the problem being he has no alternatives look at the below and see;

Guzan, the only professional footballer, foot being the word that cannot receive or kick a ball with any confidence from anyone in the crowd, so that must spill over to his team mates, but the manager must think Bunn is worse.

Hutton plenty of faults, but apart from pulling the centre half into what we believe would be a more suitable position, no alternative.

Centre half Clark, do we trust Lescott, Senderos (Jan I know), call back Baker, no one cried when he went, Crespo ?? maybe Okore but he has been out a good while now. Richardson, well maybe a one legged dog is an alternative.

Midfield, when he doesnt play we all call for Sanchez.
Gaye, Vertout, shall we replace them with Westwood, Gardner who has not torn up any trees in a Villa shirt and maybe a useful addition for next year when were down.
Then you have Gill, so yeah option if his heads right Jack, but cant play the two together much to lightweight, so one or the other.

Sinclair, ok maybe Adama, but he is not ready for a relegation scrap, we are not good enough to lose the ball as much as we have done, he would add to that. Charlie , why will he be the answer now, he has not been since walking in the door, clutching at straws Gabby or shall we keep him as an alternative to Ayew, then Rudy who cant get a full game now, to replace by the man that for my thinking too many people have looked at and thought narrgghh, Libor. Squad filler Baccuna, cameo roles thats all.

This is what Lerners spending policy has achieved, we now may have a competent manager,but he has a squad of no alternatives if players are not performing, god I was depressed before writing this, someone get me a drink quick.

[old man villa fan]

Definitely started something with the Doug revision, but I think all areas have been covered , he is a man who whilst he was here split opinion, nice to see he has not lost his touch the old git even in his 90's.

But back to Lerner, people only see the decisions since he cut back to be the problem, but in my view this is false also, that decision to cut back became necessary because of his bad management up to that point, yes I agree with Dave that he built up expectation by stating the aim was for top 4 and the Chumps league and that was what where we believe we should be, lets be fair that first game in August, we all have that one percent in the back of our mind that this could be our year, not withstanding the nurse with the medicine next to us.

But we are where we are now because of a total lack of expenditure on suitable players and not seeming to have a set plan, still not convinced we have a financial structure in place now, that is based on Premier League football and our expectations have been managed to very low levels.

That places us where we are now and to a certain extent Remi having a free run at least up to January and I still do not believe he will be given funds in January, the problem being he has no alternatives look at the below and see;

Guzan, the only professional footballer, foot being the word that cannot receive or kick a ball with any confidence from anyone in the crowd, so that must spill over to his team mates, but the manager must think Bunn is worse.

Hutton plenty of faults, but apart from pulling the centre half into what we believe would be a more suitable position, no alternative.

Centre half Clark, do we trust Lescott, Senderos (Jan I know), call back Baker, no one cried when he went, Crespo ?? maybe Okore but he has been out a good while now. Richardson, well maybe a one legged dog is an alternative.

Midfield, when he doesnt play we all call for Sanchez.
Gaye, Vertout, shall we replace them with Westwood, Gardner who has not torn up any trees in a Villa shirt and maybe a useful addition for next year when were down.
Then you have Gill, so yeah option if his heads right Jack, but cant play the two together much to lightweight, so one or the other.

Sinclair, ok maybe Adama, but he is not ready for a relegation scrap, we are not good enough to lose the ball as much as we have done, he would add to that. Charlie , why will he be the answer now, he has not been since walking in the door, clutching at straws Gabby or shall we keep him as an alternative to Ayew, then Rudy who cant get a full game now, to replace by the man that for my thinking too many people have looked at and thought narrgghh, Libor. Squad filler Baccuna, cameo roles thats all.

This is what Lerners spending policy has achieved, we now may have a competent manager,but he has a squad of no alternatives if players are not performing, god I was depressed before writing this, someone get me a drink quick.

Yes, agree with that.

I keep on going on about in one form or another but with such a weak squad, why aren't there any challengers from the U21's. Is the lack of motivation running all through the club.

[pbavfckuwait]

OMVF I think the lack of ability probably does run through the club, thats what is so scary about what I have written earlier and if we go down the prospects of bouncing right back, to me are not good.

[Chris Harte]

And yet, seemingly without quibble, he sold the club to Randy Lerner. Both a pair of unique gentlemen, or knobs as I prefer to call them.

To be fair, it seems that Randy had everyone fooled for a while.

I may be wrong, but Martin O'Neill smacks me as the kind of manager who wants to run a club from top to bottom.  I imagine that type of set up would have suited Lerner, but once O'Neill walked the decisions were left to him and things began to go wrong.

I think one could argue that things were going wrong even before O'Neill walked. The way he was allowed free access to the cheque book to sign third choice right-backs on £40k p/w was insanity by Lerner.

[Chris Harte]

It's the Doug taking appropriate action by appointing him I disagree with. Taylor was pure dumb luck.

...

Appropriate action?  Sorry, not buying it. Doug's history was going for the easyish option.

Ellis appointed Taylor. Nutshell. Action was appropriate because it prevented the club from stagnating in the lower leagues.

[django]

My problem with Lerner isn't to do with a lack of investment. The way the club is run if he kept putting money in it would be wasted, and he has wasted plenty of his money already, I can't really blame him for turning off the tap.

But other, smaller, clubs seem to be able to run better businesses, and teams, while spending less money, so it seems he has never really got the structure right. Id look at his appointments, in terms of managers and board and say he has made a massive balls up of that. He's had plenty of time to address it, and he hasn't.

Garde does at least strike me as good appointment but probably at the wrong time. He'd be the perfect type of figure to improve a side who had levelled out in mid table under an Allardyce type.

[Villa in Denmark]

It's the Doug taking appropriate action by appointing him I disagree with. Taylor was pure dumb luck.

...

Appropriate action?  Sorry, not buying it. Doug's history was going for the easyish option.

Ellis appointed Taylor. Nutshell. Action was appropriate because it prevented the club from stagnating in the lower leagues.

Taylor being appointed was definitely appropriate.  It just wasn't much action by Doug.

See Dave W's previous comment about Bassett being on the verge of being appointed. That must have been somewhere in my subconscious when I raised him as an example as the kind of manager Doug could gave appointed.

[rob_bridge]

It's the Doug taking appropriate action by appointing him I disagree with. Taylor was pure dumb luck.

...

Appropriate action?  Sorry, not buying it. Doug's history was going for the easyish option.

Ellis appointed Taylor. Nutshell. Action was appropriate because it prevented the club from stagnating in the lower leagues.

Taylor being appointed was definitely appropriate.  It just wasn't much action by Doug.

See Dave W's previous comment about Bassett being on the verge of being appointed. That must have been somewhere in my subconscious when I raised him as an example as the kind of manager Doug could gave appointed.

Up until that point (in 1987), hadn't Bassett's record been practically a mirror image of Taylor's?

[dave.woodhall]

It's the Doug taking appropriate action by appointing him I disagree with. Taylor was pure dumb luck.

...

Appropriate action?  Sorry, not buying it. Doug's history was going for the easyish option.

Ellis appointed Taylor. Nutshell. Action was appropriate because it prevented the club from stagnating in the lower leagues.

And let's never forget whose fault that was. You can blithly skip over the most rapid decline in the history of English football if you want but it was solely down to Doug Ellis and everything else he ever did has to be judged against that.

[Richard E]

It's the Doug taking appropriate action by appointing him I disagree with. Taylor was pure dumb luck.

...

Appropriate action?  Sorry, not buying it. Doug's history was going for the easyish option.

Ellis appointed Taylor. Nutshell. Action was appropriate because it prevented the club from stagnating in the lower leagues.

And let's never forget whose fault that was. You can blithly skip over the most rapid decline in the history of English football if you want but it was solely down to Doug Ellis and everything else he ever did has to be judged against that.

I seem to remember reading at the time about him being berated at the AGM about how he had taken the Champions of Europe and made them not good enough to compete with Charlton or Wimbledon. When you put it in those terms it is a truly damning indictment.

[Toronto Villa]

It's the Doug taking appropriate action by appointing him I disagree with. Taylor was pure dumb luck.

...

Appropriate action?  Sorry, not buying it. Doug's history was going for the easyish option.

Ellis appointed Taylor. Nutshell. Action was appropriate because it prevented the club from stagnating in the lower leagues.

And let's never forget whose fault that was. You can blithly skip over the most rapid decline in the history of English football if you want but it was solely down to Doug Ellis and everything else he ever did has to be judged against that.

Precisely. Very few people can argue against Randy making a number of critical errors in the past few years. But Doug trumps that several times over with what he did to the Championship and European Cup winning teams. As I said a few pages back, if the Internet existed back this place and every other Villa board wouldn't just he melted down. The sheer anger would have been such that we would have been sucked into a black hole of despair.

[Chris Harte]

And let's never forget whose fault that was. You can blithly skip over the most rapid decline in the history of English football if you want but it was solely down to Doug Ellis and everything else he ever did has to be judged against that.

And Randy Lerner will also be judged.

He's made this club the laughing stock of English football. Barely a 20% win rate at home in over eighty games stretching back over five seasons. You must know how that feels. It feels shit having had the enthusiasm pummeled out of you because VILLA PARK HAS BECOME A DOORMAT. Where just about every two-bit club has pitched up and taken the piss in recent years.

We can argue about who the worst owner was all we like. Ellis' relegation against Lerner's imminent relegation. Ellis taking a wage against Lerner blindly throwing money at a manager who didn't know the meaning of treating money with respect. Ellis' two Coca Cola Cups against Lerner's scarves, Holte Hotel and tarting up the Trinity (the latter being down to Ellis in fairness).

History tells us that after relegation last time we came back stronger, even winning a few cups along the way.

But this is the here and now. My god, this club is fucked. And it doesn't matter how it is dressed up. It doesn't matter how it is spun. Ultimately, Randy Lerner is the person responsible for the current plight of Aston Villa Football Club.

[ChicagoLion]

And let's never forget whose fault that was. You can blithly skip over the most rapid decline in the history of English football if you want but it was solely down to Doug Ellis and everything else he ever did has to be judged against that.

And Randy Lerner will also be judged.

He's made this club the laughing stock of English football. Barely a 20% win rate at home in over eighty games stretching back over five seasons. You must know how that feels. It feels shit having had the enthusiasm pummeled out of you because VILLA PARK HAS BECOME A DOORMAT. Where just about every two-bit club has pitched up and taken the piss in recent years.

We can argue about who the worst owner was all we like. Ellis' relegation against Lerner's imminent relegation. Ellis taking a wage against Lerner blindly throwing money at a manager who didn't know the meaning of treating money with respect. Ellis' two Coca Cola Cups against Lerner's scarves, Holte Hotel and tarting up the Trinity (the latter being down to Ellis in fairness).

History tells us that after relegation last time we came back stronger, even winning a few cups along the way.

But this is the here and now. My god, this club is fucked. And it doesn't matter how it is dressed up. It doesn't matter how it is spun. Ultimately, Randy Lerner is the person responsible for the current plight of Aston Villa Football Club.

Round of applause.

[Ads]

Ellis is quite comfortably the worst owner.

Relegating the European champions, penny pinching on players at the critical moment denying us the chance to win the league and of course, missing the boat entirely with his corner shop mentality when the Premier League kicked off and the money began to role in by the truck load after a few seasons.

Lerner is a very, very poor owner and you don't have to measure him up against the very worst in Ellis to come to that conclusion. You can assess Lerner's failings, numerous that they are on their own.

That Lerner had good intentions before his neglect set in doesn't absolve him of the responsibility he has for subjecting us to the most consistently poor period in over 40 years.

He has one last throw of the dice to come in the January window to try and salvage matters. They may well be too late and that is my fear after the Watford defeat, but time will tell if the gut feeling that this is all forlorn.