Randy Lerner

[PeterWithesShin]

Ellis did things out of spite. Lerner has done things through naivety and just plain making mistakes. That will always be the big difference for me.

[Tugby Villain]

At least you get the sense that, for all of his faults, Doug really did care.  And when he knew he'd cocked up he sold the club to the man who he felt was the best person for the job.  The thing that bugs me about Randy is the indifferance.  Does he actually care about anything other than money?

[dave.woodhall]

You can criticize Lerner and still think that Ellis was a massive wanker. I don't see why the faults of one improve the reputation of the other.

This is what I don't understand. How can anyone defend Ellis, just to prove a point about Lerner?

I came on to a thread about Randy Lerner to see people laying into Ellis. I felt it was over the top and so said so although drawing comparisons is natural, I suppose.

Trust me, I don't need to defend Ellis to make a case for why Lerner has been so poor. It is there for all to see.

So tell us, Dave, now that you've got your feelings about Ellis out of your system. Who do you think is responsible for the current plight of Aston Villa?

Edit - very sensible post by Ads, BTW.

Ultimately, the buck stops at the top. The man who appoints the men responsible for making the big decisions has to take the ultimate blame. I've never said any different.

[Richard E]

At least you get the sense that, for all of his faults, Doug really did care.  And when he knew he'd cocked up he sold the club to the man who he felt was the best person for the job.  The thing that bugs me about Randy is the indifferance.  Does he actually care about anything other than money?

Do you seriously think Doug Ellis is capable of allowing the possibility that he might have cocked up to even enter his head?

[saunders_heroes]

You can criticize Lerner and still think that Ellis was a massive wanker. I don't see why the faults of one improve the reputation of the other.

This is what I don't understand. How can anyone defend Ellis, just to prove a point about Lerner?

It's only natural that some fans might compare the two though. Do you really think Ellis would have appointed the bloke who just relegated Small Heath?

Graham Turner. And as I've said before, McLeish was the daftest, most inexplicable decision in the club's history but Turner was by far the worst. At least McLeish had managed with a modicum of success at the level we were at, and played at a higher one. Turner, nice guy though he was, was expected to come from Shrewsbury and manage a dressing room full of champions.

i

I agree with you about Turner who for me was our worst ever manager. Absolute madness to appoint him and I've always blamed him more than McBingo for our relegation.

[Ads]

I suppose the end result is Aston Villa being in a position where we should never be, below clubs like Stoke, Swansea, West Brom, Watford, Norwich, West Ham, Bournemouth, Southampton who couldn't be more irrelevant in their history as weighed against us if they tried.

But it counts for little when you've had five years of neglect and swirling the toilet bowl of relegation.

The difference between Ellis and Lerner in the current situation, is Lerner can at least have a go at doing something about it in January.

I do like his panic £18 million purchases for strikers. Maybe one of those for Charlie Austin and a left sided centre half will do the trick.

[dave.woodhall]

At least you get the sense that, for all of his faults, Doug really did care.  And when he knew he'd cocked up he sold the club to the man who he felt was the best person for the job.  The thing that bugs me about Randy is the indifferance.  Does he actually care about anything other than money?

If he cared about money he wouldn't have given so much of it away.

[Chris Smith]

At least you get the sense that, for all of his faults, Doug really did care.  And when he knew he'd cocked up he sold the club to the man who he felt was the best person for the job.  The thing that bugs me about Randy is the indifferance.  Does he actually care about anything other than money?

Which of the two made money out of his time at Villa?

Neither made the club successful but Doug made himself a fortune.

[Villa in Denmark]

It's only natural that some fans might compare the two though. Do you really think Ellis would have appointed the bloke who just relegated Small Heath?

No, he'd have been too busy appointing the bloke who was doing a great job of relegating Man City.

Not forgetting that he was happy to be one of their directors whilst not welcome at Villa Park.

[Villa in Denmark]

At least you get the sense that, for all of his faults, Doug really did care.  And when he knew he'd cocked up he sold the club to the man who he felt was the best person for the job.  The thing that bugs me about Randy is the indifferance.  Does he actually care about anything other than money?

Which of the two made money out of his time at Villa?

Neither made the club successful but Doug made himself a fortune.

Doug jacked it in when he realised that there were no more magic money trees such as the NTL or flotation money to fund another round of purchases.

The only good thing Doug did towards the end was not selling to Ray Ransom.

[TopDeck113]

Having thought about this intermittently today, I've come to the conclusion that perhaps the reason why some people are now prepared to cut Ellis some slack is because ultimately we knew where we stood with him.  He was that tight fisted old Uncle who would begrudgingly give you a tuppence at Christmas when you knew full well he could easily afford to give you a tenner.  However, at least he was consistent and in a slightly masochistic way, we grew to quite like him for it - he might have been Scrooge, but he was our Scrooge.   Then the new guy comes in and throws his money around like confetti, and, yes, we all loved it. After the perceived parsimony of the proceeding couple of decades it was like all our birthdays and Christmases had come at once. Until seemingly he woke up one morning and thought, nah, had enough of that.  And since then no one knows where they stand or what flight of fancy he's going to come up with next. 

[manic-road]

Ellis did things out of spite. Lerner has done things through naivety and just plain making mistakes. That will always be the big difference for me.

Lerner made similar mistakes at the Browns, he should have learnt from those.

[Chris Harte]

Lerner's mistakes, in my opinion:

Allowing O'Neill to go nuts with the chequebook signing players he subsequently wouldn't use - the resulting wage bill had a direct impact on the club in the post-O'Neill seasons.

Employing Alex McCleish - the fans didn't want a Blues boss who'd just got them relegated. Lerner employed him regardless, as if to say "It's my club, I'll do as I please."

Giving Lambert a four-year contract on the back of five results at the start of last season.

Not allowing Sherwood to pick his own transfer targets in the summer.

Writing a pathetically cheap release clause into Fabian Delph's new contract. One could argue that was an act of deception against the supporters.

Feel free to add your own, people.

[Stirchley Villain]

Lerner's mistakes, in my opinion:

Allowing O'Neill to go nuts with the chequebook signing players he subsequently wouldn't use - the resulting wage bill had a direct impact on the club in the post-O'Neill seasons.

Employing Alex McCleish - the fans didn't want a Blues boss who'd just got them relegated. Lerner employed him regardless, as if to say "It's my club, I'll do as I please."

Giving Lambert a four-year contract on the back of five results at the start of last season.

Not allowing Sherwood to pick his own transfer targets in the summer.

Writing a pathetically cheap release clause into Fabian Delph's new contract. One could argue that was an act of deception against the supporters.

Feel free to add your own, people.

Sherwood had plenty of input in buying the players in the summer.
We had no choice with the Delph contract. He'd have just walked otherwise.

[saunders_heroes]

Buying lower league crap like Lowton, Bennett etc and claiming them as "young and hungry" in a bid to fool the fans into thinking something magic was gonna happen.
It was like wrapping tinsel around a dog turd and hoping we didn't notice.