Randy Lerner

[Toronto Villa]

And therefore I doubt (and I know this is supposition) he would have allowed us to decline to the point where we will in all probability drop out of the all-encompassing Premier League with barely a whimper and a national laughing stock to boot.

He dismantled a European Cup winning side in about 2 and bit seasons and under his stewardship saw us appoint numerous horrific managers. Oh and throw in that relegation in 86/87 too. How do you think the world of football would have viewed us had the Internet, social media, 24 hour radio and TV analysis existed back in the mid to late 80's?

That might be the most revisionist Doug Ellis statement I've ever read on here.

[tomd2103]

It seems like a foregone conclusion now that we will be relegated but my greatest fear is that if we were to drop down a division, I couldn't see us coming back up for a long, long time. A club of Villa's resources shouldn't be scraping by in the top flight, yet we'd be asking the same management - who have mismanaged us so badly - to galvanise the club and streamline it effectively enough to be competitive. Essentially, I have no faith in anyone at Villa Park to do that.

"It's a big shit sandwich and we all have to take a bite".

That is my concern.  If we do go down, we will need some shrewd planning and decision making if we are going to come straight back up.  Like you, I don't have the faith in the people running the club to do that. 

[TopDeck113]

And therefore I doubt (and I know this is supposition) he would have allowed us to decline to the point where we will in all probability drop out of the all-encompassing Premier League with barely a whimper and a national laughing stock to boot.

He dismantled a European Cup winning side in about 2 and bit seasons and under his stewardship saw us appoint numerous horrific managers. Oh and throw in that relegation in 86/87 too. How do you think the world of football would have viewed us had the Internet, social media, 24 hour radio and TV analysis existed back in the mid to late 80's?

That might be the most revisionist Doug Ellis statement I've ever read on here.

If you re-read my post you will notice that I deliberately included the term "all-encompassing Premier League".  My view on his stewardship during the the 1980s is not any different to that which you have written (although I wouldn't agree on the "numerous horrific managers" - that's the preserve of the current regime).  I stand by my moriginal post: I doubt very much we would have endured a similar five year period under Doug.  We can disagree as to whether the motivation would be his own ego/vanity or the value of the Premier League finances or both, but it simply wouldn't have happened.

[Toronto Villa]

And therefore I doubt (and I know this is supposition) he would have allowed us to decline to the point where we will in all probability drop out of the all-encompassing Premier League with barely a whimper and a national laughing stock to boot.

He dismantled a European Cup winning side in about 2 and bit seasons and under his stewardship saw us appoint numerous horrific managers. Oh and throw in that relegation in 86/87 too. How do you think the world of football would have viewed us had the Internet, social media, 24 hour radio and TV analysis existed back in the mid to late 80's?

That might be the most revisionist Doug Ellis statement I've ever read on here.

If you re-read my post you will notice that I deliberately included the term "all-encompassing Premier League".  My view on his stewardship during the the 1980s is not any different to that which you have written (although I wouldn't agree on the "numerous horrific managers" - that's the preserve of the current regime).  I stand by my moriginal post: I doubt very much we would have endured a similar five year period under Doug.  We can disagree as to whether the motivation would be his own ego/vanity or the value of the Premier League finances or both, but it simply wouldn't have happened.

What Ellis allowed to happen was way worse than what is happening under Lerner. Between 82 and 87 he managed to relegate the Champions of Europe. That's some achievement in a 5 year period.

[TopDeck113]

Again, you're not reading what I'm writing.  I'm talking about the here and now. I'm talking about the Premier League and the fact that a club not in it effectively ceases to exist in the eyes of the national media. I'm talking about the millions we'd be losing in money through relegation.

For the avoidance of any doubt, Doug's treatment of the manager and players of the European Cup winning team was atrocious. And, yes, it takes some kind of genius to go from Champions of Europe to relegation in five years  (of which the first two we were doing alright). But the reason I'm talking about the here and now was because in 1987 relegation was a hit a club could take and perhaps benefit from for lots of reasons. In 2016 it is not quite as straightforward and, for all his faults, Doug would have recognised it.

[Clampy]

Again, you're not reading what I'm writing.  I'm talking about the here and now. I'm talking about the Premier League and the fact that a club not in it effectively ceases to exist in the eyes of the national media. I'm talking about the millions we'd be losing in money through relegation.

For the avoidance of any doubt, Doug's treatment of the manager and players of the European Cup winning team was atrocious. And, yes, it takes some kind of genius to go from Champions of Europe to relegation in five years  (of which the first two we were doing alright). But the reason I'm talking about the here and now was because in 1987 relegation was a hit a club could take and perhaps benefit from for lots of reasons. In 2016 it is not quite as straightforward and, for all his faults, Doug would have recognised it.

You can't just add in 'here and now' and 'the premier league' to suit your argument.

[Clampy]

Whether it's 1987 or 2016, relegation is best avoided.

[Toronto Villa]

Again, you're not reading what I'm writing.  I'm talking about the here and now. I'm talking about the Premier League and the fact that a club not in it effectively ceases to exist in the eyes of the national media. I'm talking about the millions we'd be losing in money through relegation.

For the avoidance of any doubt, Doug's treatment of the manager and players of the European Cup winning team was atrocious. And, yes, it takes some kind of genius to go from Champions of Europe to relegation in five years  (of which the first two we were doing alright). But the reason I'm talking about the here and now was because in 1987 relegation was a hit a club could take and perhaps benefit from for lots of reasons. In 2016 it is not quite as straightforward and, for all his faults, Doug would have recognised it.

You can't just add in 'here and now' and 'the premier league' to suit your argument.

Precisely. The loss of revenues is relative to the era. Yes it will hurt if it happens just as it hurt back then. Think about where we should be had Doug had the foresight to take one of the best sides in Europe and build on it. He didn't, and in quite spectacular fashion.

[Duncan Shaw]

It was pure jealousy in the 80's that drove Diug's decision making, because he was away when we reached the pinnacle of club football.  And he deserve every pelter he gets for it.  Having got us back up and established in the Preeemier League, there is no way he'd be letting us risk losing the gravy train like Lerner had done though.

[Toronto Villa]

But he let us lose the gravy train that came with being Champions of Europe. Back then it wasn't just about money so for a lot less we could have maintained our position near or at the top of English and European football. Then when the money did arrive we'd be that much stronger to really take advantage of it.

[TopDeck113]

Again, you're not reading what I'm writing.  I'm talking about the here and now. I'm talking about the Premier League and the fact that a club not in it effectively ceases to exist in the eyes of the national media. I'm talking about the millions we'd be losing in money through relegation.

For the avoidance of any doubt, Doug's treatment of the manager and players of the European Cup winning team was atrocious. And, yes, it takes some kind of genius to go from Champions of Europe to relegation in five years  (of which the first two we were doing alright). But the reason I'm talking about the here and now was because in 1987 relegation was a hit a club could take and perhaps benefit from for lots of reasons. In 2016 it is not quite as straightforward and, for all his faults, Doug would have recognised it.

You can't just add in 'here and now' and 'the premier league' to suit your argument.

Yes I can when it was the premise of my original post.

[Toronto Villa]

Again, you're not reading what I'm writing.  I'm talking about the here and now. I'm talking about the Premier League and the fact that a club not in it effectively ceases to exist in the eyes of the national media. I'm talking about the millions we'd be losing in money through relegation.

For the avoidance of any doubt, Doug's treatment of the manager and players of the European Cup winning team was atrocious. And, yes, it takes some kind of genius to go from Champions of Europe to relegation in five years  (of which the first two we were doing alright). But the reason I'm talking about the here and now was because in 1987 relegation was a hit a club could take and perhaps benefit from for lots of reasons. In 2016 it is not quite as straightforward and, for all his faults, Doug would have recognised it.

You can't just add in 'here and now' and 'the premier league' to suit your argument.

Yes I can when it was the premise of my original post.

But you are saying Doug would not have allowed this to happen just because it is the PL and because of the money. But that's precisely what he did in his era. I don't understand why you think he would chair the club any differently now just because of more money being in the game.

[olaftab]

Whether it's 1987 or 2016, relegation is best avoided.

Yes  like any other problem best avoided however when it happens we must deal with it properly with a plan to recover.

[Stu]

We're not a national laughing stock. The usual suspects will love us being shit but other than possibly Newcastle fans, no one else gives a crap.

[villan from luton]

Whether it's 1987 or 2016, relegation is best avoided.

Yes  like any other problem best avoided however when it happens we must deal with it properly with a plan to recover.

It is difficult to set a plan when the ownership is up in the air. As for Ellis, he is a complete penis IMHO