Randy Lerner

[Monty]

One way he 'lost the dressing room' was by asking them to stop drinking so much and do a bit more jogging.

And asked the defenders to run up and down a bit instead of stopping on the edge of the box to watch Petrov run around doing three peoples jobs.

On this and on Sam's point about the drinking culture, I was reading The Secret Footballer's interview with Houllier about his upcoming book, and one of the things he discusses is how he had to sort out the Liverpool players' boozing and carousing when he went there. To come to Villa, ten years after all that, and be confronted by Dullins ruining a spa weekend by attacking a club legend must have been exasperating beyond belief.

[bobdylan]

Without Milner we were not a top six side.

Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.

Ok I'd agree that without Milner even with Bent and Walker for half a season we were not a top 6 side, but there's no way we were a side that should have been flirting with relegation.  If we'd have dropped into mid table it would have been ok but to plunge as low as we did and treat the FA Cup with disdain was too much for me.

We were that low because we lost our entire coaching staff days before the season started, took over a month to replace them and then had the worst injury list in living memory. Despite that we finished in the top half, and before anyone says it was a false position, nobody ever says the same about 2002-03, when three more goals would have seen us finish eighth instead of sixteenth.

We finished top half because under Gary Mac we beat Liverpool and Arsenal in our last 2 games, can't give Houllier credit for that, otherwise we'd have finished around 15/16th and there's no way McLeish would have had us that low the following season if he'd still got Young and Downing in the team.

We finished ninth because eleven clubs had a worse record than us, under three managers.

True and arguably the 3 most accomplished wins came when Houllier was not in charge, I dread to think where we'd have finished without those 9 precious points.

Same place as we would without nine of the points he got us but this really is going round in circles. I think one of the reasons we improved was that both men went back to basics and shelved the long-term goal in favour of short-term results.

Yer you're right.  I've just always thought Houllier was no better and no worse than Sherwood/Lambert/McLeish as whilst we finished 9th under him he did have Young and Downing in his squad and was given £24m to spend on a striker.

[silhillvilla]

One way he 'lost the dressing room' was by asking them to stop drinking so much and do a bit more jogging.

And asked the defenders to run up and down a bit instead of stopping on the edge of the box to watch Petrov run around doing three peoples jobs.

On this and on Sam's point about the drinking culture, I was reading The Secret Footballer's interview with Houllier about his upcoming book, and one of the things he discusses is how he had to sort out the Liverpool players' boozing and carousing when he went there. To come to Villa, ten years after all that, and be confronted by Dullins ruining a spa weekend by attacking a club legend must have been exasperating beyond belief.

For the record GED had fucked off for the day when it started to get a bit tasty. It was Cowans With Gabby in support taking on the others. Allegedly your honour.

[dave.woodhall]

One way he 'lost the dressing room' was by asking them to stop drinking so much and do a bit more jogging.

And asked the defenders to run up and down a bit instead of stopping on the edge of the box to watch Petrov run around doing three peoples jobs.

On this and on Sam's point about the drinking culture, I was reading The Secret Footballer's interview with Houllier about his upcoming book, and one of the things he discusses is how he had to sort out the Liverpool players' boozing and carousing when he went there. To come to Villa, ten years after all that, and be confronted by Dullins ruining a spa weekend by attacking a club legend must have been exasperating beyond belief.

When my Liveprool counterpart Steve Kelly wrote for us about Houllier he made reference to how he'd been unpopular at first for sorting out the Spice Boys culture up there.

[Villa in Denmark]

It was mismanagement on several levels. Quickly lost the dressing room. Poor results. Poor performances , poor signings - see Makoun aswell .
This "vision" ?? It wasn't a good one. Like I said before though, health wise he wasn't a well man so He needs some slack in that respect.

What part of his 'vision' didn't you like?

Mostly the bit where we kept losing and weren't playing well even with a really good squad. Add in the poor signings and his strange sound bites and distanced aloofness. Other than that I can't fault the guy.

Of which I think we had 9 first team players out at the same time at one point, and the kind of injury list that saw Middlesbrough docked points for failing to fulfil fixtures a few years ago.

And you do understand what a vision means in this context don't you?

a. What you see when you dream
b. Jennifer Garner (or whoever tickles your fancy)
c. A medium to long-term goal.
d. Some bollocks I made up to fit an argument.

[silhillvilla]

Signings don't work out for a number of reasons. It happens, and using hindsight means none of us would ever make a mistake. Doesn't make the thinking behind the signing wrong. As I said, Makoun was getting a lot of praise on here.

So he wasn't "rave" 

At least try and speak English. Some praised him, some raved about him. It really isn't difficult. But as usual you stick to avoiding the points raised that you can't answer, or don't like the answer to.

You've conveniently dodged all the points I raised and are now resorting to personal insults ?!!speak English ? Brilliant, really awesome level of debate. 

[PeterWithesShin]

What points have you raised that i've dodged? That Makoun, Pires and Bradley didn't work out? I've already said that happens but the thinking behind them was sound. What else did I dodge?

So he wasn't "rave" 

What does that mean, is it a statement, a question, or what?

[pauliewalnuts]

One way he 'lost the dressing room' was by asking them to stop drinking so much and do a bit more jogging.

And asked the defenders to run up and down a bit instead of stopping on the edge of the box to watch Petrov run around doing three peoples jobs.

On this and on Sam's point about the drinking culture, I was reading The Secret Footballer's interview with Houllier about his upcoming book, and one of the things he discusses is how he had to sort out the Liverpool players' boozing and carousing when he went there. To come to Villa, ten years after all that, and be confronted by Dullins ruining a spa weekend by attacking a club legend must have been exasperating beyond belief.

When my Liveprool counterpart Steve Kelly wrote for us about Houllier he made reference to how he'd been unpopular at first for sorting out the Spice Boys culture up there.

Wasn't Robert Duverne involved in that? Him being one of the three blokes Garde wants to bring with him?

Funny how things turn out.

[dave.woodhall]

Signings don't work out for a number of reasons. It happens, and using hindsight means none of us would ever make a mistake. Doesn't make the thinking behind the signing wrong. As I said, Makoun was getting a lot of praise on here.

So he wasn't "rave" 

At least try and speak English. Some praised him, some raved about him. It really isn't difficult. But as usual you stick to avoiding the points raised that you can't answer, or don't like the answer to.

You've conveniently dodged all the points I raised and are now resorting to personal insults ?!!speak English ? Brilliant, really awesome level of debate. 

If you don't like it you can always leave.

[Villa in Denmark]

One way he 'lost the dressing room' was by asking them to stop drinking so much and do a bit more jogging.

And asked the defenders to run up and down a bit instead of stopping on the edge of the box to watch Petrov run around doing three peoples jobs.

On this and on Sam's point about the drinking culture, I was reading The Secret Footballer's interview with Houllier about his upcoming book, and one of the things he discusses is how he had to sort out the Liverpool players' boozing and carousing when he went there. To come to Villa, ten years after all that, and be confronted by Dullins ruining a spa weekend by attacking a club legend must have been exasperating beyond belief.

For the record GED had fucked off for the day when it started to get a bit tasty. It was Cowans With Gabby in support taking on the others. Allegedly your honour.

Yeah fancy that. The manager leaving a staff do as early as it's politely possible and trusting professional athletes to not get so wankered that they start assaulting one of the coaching staff, who just happens to be a club legend that they're not fit to even ask for permission to lace his boots.

[Dave]

You've conveniently dodged all the points I raised

*wide-eyed in amazement*

[joe_c]

"...and when we got home, Gerard Houllier would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing You'll Never Walk Alone."

Weird how Gary McAllister, who we all now acknowledge to be the real mastermind behind the 9th place finish that season, hasn't been mentioned as a potential successor.

[silhillvilla]

Everybody in your world Silhill is a conspirator. Everything is so black and baleful. The Houllier at Anfield incident was an hour in 150 years of Villa history not some bloody vengeful apocalypse.

Not really Brian , we were discussing GED and his brief time at the club. Over time I think some see him now as some shining beacon in 5 or 6 declining, wasteland seasons. The anfield night yes was one evening. The comments were ill judged, but it kind of somew him up for me , he never really came across as fully engaged in the job. Someone on here described him as a distant consultant which was quite apt. The results were not great either and GMAC salvaged our league position ultimately not GED. He wasn't of good health and that is somewhat mitigating but I don't see him as this visionary guru some are now portraying him as.

Very well put, I think you are spot on.

Thanks , and that's where we will leave the GED chapter of visionary brilliance .

[Villa in Denmark]

And who "raved" about Makoun lol ??
He came in wore a Pringle at his presser, and that was about it, talk about a fish out of water on the pitch . Where did he end up and for how much ? What was he £5m in sold for £1m ?? Inside a year. Brilliant . In fact "visionary"

I don't expect you'd remember, you were banned at the time.

Talk me through this one , Makoun signed For £6.2m , loaned out within a year for 2 years and ended up leaving for nothing , that's £0 .
If that's GED's "vision" then it's sublime .

Makoun was loaned out by McLeish, probably because of all that passing the ball stuff.

The club dropped a bollock by not ensuring that he continued learning English whilst in Greece. When he returned, he couldn't pass the language test to get a new work permit or renew the existing one, I can't remember that level of detail.

At that point he's a "distressed asset" where the savings on wages for the remainder of his contract would have been as important as any fee.

And just for the record you're factually incorrect, just for a change. After a year in Greece on loan (for an undisclosed fee), he spent a year on loan at Rennes (for an undisclosed fee), he signed a permanent deal for £2M.
That's £2,000,000 more than £0, plus whatever we got back in loan fees.

[dave.woodhall]

"...and when we got home, Gerard Houllier would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing You'll Never Walk Alone."

Weird how Gary McAllister, who we all now acknowledge to be the real mastermind behind the 9th place finish that season, hasn't been mentioned as a potential successor.

Which in turn reminds me of the most hysterical thread in even our long history. http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43016.0