Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Ad@m on April 30, 2011, 05:32:48 PM
-
I'm sorry, I'm really not one to start threads like this but today's the final straw.
This season has been an unmitigated disaster. Even for a season of transition as this undoubtedly was, we've been beaten by the Blues in the cup they went on to win and we've now been beaten in the league by Smethwick for the first time since TVs started showing things in colour, and as a result there's every chance they'll finish above us.
Certain players need to be shipped out, granted, but the quality of this squad is such that we should not be sitting on 41 points after 35 games. It's just not good enough. And for such quality players to be delivering such shit results only points to one thing - the management team.
And I don't buy the argument that Houllier needs to buy his own players. A good manager will make the best of the players available to him. Someone who can only get results out of certain players is very one-dimentional and in my mind that's not good enough for a club like ours.
The only time I remember the Villa worsening so much in the space of a season was the infamous Joseph Venglos season where he took a team that finished 2nd, minus Platty, and only just kept us up by one place. He lost his job for that and Houllier and McAllister should suffer the same fate for doing a very similar, if not quite as dramatic, balls up themselves.
I'm so angry about this I really could scream!!!!!
-
I am with you. Today the blame was half and half. Some of the players like Ash Young can F O as soon as any one wants them and McAllister FFS why remove both NRC and Petrov when they were bossing the midfield. Hodgson showed him up for what he is an inadequate coach at this level.
-
Anyone would think we have lost for the 5th consecutive game not the first time in 5 games.
3 games left then its down to Randy to take some hard measures and quick.
-
There's a reason that McAllister is the harbinger of relegation for football clubs. It's because he's shit. Hopefully we have too many points for even him to manage to take us down, but he's a useless fuck and I hope he gets the sack ASAP.
-
Ok, so while Houllier is released from hospital yesterday, you start a thread that this could have been put on from any of a number started weeks ago. Most likely they will leave when Houllier can't continue, but he had just got some decent results when he fell ill, and today may have been different had we taken chances and or he been present. Frankly, as long as we stay up I could not give a monkeys about the results now. Just want the season over, and whoever is in charge get a propper summer to sort it for next season.
-
Anyone would think we have lost for the 5th consecutive game not the first time in 5 games.
That doesn't tell anything like the whole story.
We've been uniformally shit for most of the season.
It's not working. Time for a fresh approach.
-
Anyone would think we have lost for the 5th consecutive game not the first time in 5 games.
3 games left then its down to Randy to take some hard measures and quick.
If you want to talk about consecutive games, what about the stat that we've only won two games in a row twice this season? And the last time we did that the manager decided to chuck the next game whilst telling the world we wouldn't have beaten that team anyway.
That management team is dragging the club down.
-
I don't really feel right having a go at Houllier on the day he comes out of the hospital. He had started to turn things round prior to his illness but I'm still not sure about him.
McAllister is clueless. Our players are gutless wankers. Thank fuck it will take a series of unlikely events for us to go down.
-
When Ozzjim, you say "Frankly, as long as we stay up I could not give a monkeys about the results now."
Nice thought, but I feel that they might be slightly connected. !
-
The complete failure of the management to organise anything like a competent defence, is pitiful.
The same mistakes are repeated time and time again.
-
I'll be crapping it from the start if GH is still manager next season. He doesn't fill me with any confidence.
-
Anyone would think we have lost for the 5th consecutive game not the first time in 5 games.
3 games left then its down to Randy to take some hard measures and quick.
If you want to talk about consecutive games, what about the stat that we've only won two games in a row twice this season? And the last time we did that the manager decided to chuck the next game whilst telling the world we wouldn't have beaten that team anyway.
That management team is dragging the club down.
So did you start a Houllier out thread in the last 5 games ? I wonder why not
-
I dont like to say it but its time the management and half the squad go. Lets just hope Houllier, who i dont dislike as a person and seems honorouble enough, does the decent thing and quits as soon as season is over. This will give us enough time to get the right man in and time to sort out the squad over the summer.We cannot afford him to wait til mid july before the inevitable resignation through health grounds comes
-
Anyone would think we have lost for the 5th consecutive game not the first time in 5 games.
Anyone would think we've just surrendered a lead to a shit, ten-man West Brom side.
-
I love it. As soon as we lose a game the knee jerks come out. So boring and so predictable. We lost 2-1 away against probably the best baggies team in 20years with our manager just out of hospital. I suggest some of you go and support Liverpool, you will fit right in. Completely short sighted opinions....
-
what the hell was Pires brought on for........beggars belief that he gets game time....This club has come to a Standstill......Mac has'nt a clue.
-
It's just about experience. Hodgson made right substitution G Mac didn't
Houllier is a good manager it hasn't worked this season but who know's it may have worked next season. As it is, he won't be there next season so to call for his head now is pointless in my opinion. I personally think we'll lose next 3 games. Overall we'll stay up, Someone else will be in charge next season
-
I love the comment mattjpa - the knee jerk accusation has been hilarious all season. If we lose, the pessimists and critics are deemed asonly having knee jerk reactions, but a win and out come the "we might get into Europe" brigade, yet nobody says that is knee jerk!!! Such double standards...
-
We lost 2-1 away against probably the best baggies team in 20years
Man for man we're a much better team, you also seem to forget they were down to 10 men.
-
I just hope that Houllier does what he considers to be the honourable thing and resign, before Randy does what he considers to be the honourable thing and gives him a summer of recuperation and another season.
I want a new manager in place ASAP - and that hasn't changed since I saw the shit that was the "performance" at Eastlands in December.
-
Isn't it pretty much impossible to have a reaction which is "kneejerk" when we're still not safe from relegation with three matches to play? Surely, given those circumstances, any reaction is going to be influenced by the preceeding 35 matches, and therefore not kneejerk?
-
I just hope that Houllier does what he considers to be the honourable thing and resign, before Randy does what he considers to be the honourable thing and gives him a summer of recuperation and another season.
A summer of recuperation, with us not knowing what's going to be there at the end of it - GH? Not GH? GM in charge for a few months? - would be absolutely disastrous for us.
There's doing the right thing, and there's doing the right thing for the football club.
-
Oh yes, lots to be positive about, where do we start?
-
It's our first defeat in5 and was very close...now there are calls to sack the management-where was this thread during the last four weeks? Fucking no where. I call this knee jerk. And very boring.
-
What the hell is kneejerk about having to put up with this crap all season? Dear me...
Massive summer coming up - as far as I can see, we need one hell of a clear out starting with the management team and then about half a dozen players need to sod off, and that's probably a conservative estimate
-
If GH intends to retire he should announce it now or at least let Randy know.
-
It's our first defeat in5 and was very close...now there are calls to sack the management-where was this thread during the last four weeks? Fucking no where. I call this knee jerk. And very boring.
I think you are McAllister using an alias!
-
I love it. As soon as we lose a game the knee jerks come out. So boring and so predictable. We lost 2-1 away against probably the best baggies team in 20years with our manager just out of hospital. I suggest some of you go and support Liverpool, you will fit right in. Completely short sighted opinions....
Knee jerk? 41 points from 35 games still not mathematically safe with 3 games to go. How is that knee jerk? What's your expectation from a coaching team on about £3m a year and most of the players on 50K a week?
-
Oh yes, lots to be positive about, where do we start?
As usual, our fans were brilliant.
Erm..
-
Why bring back Bannan and have Delph on the bench as well then put on Pires? It beggars belief. I guess the excuse will be experience was needed. So how does that excuse putting on Clarke instead of Cuellar for Dunne?
-
Not a dig at the OP, but calling for this now is unnecessary.
And might make us look like cants into the bargain, what with him just fresh out of hospital.
I share the frustration, and if there's any suggestion that the board do want to keep this managerial dream team in place past the summer, I'll be right in the vanguard with you.
But in all likelyhood he (and Gary Mac) will be gone, so lets look forward to that and an end to this culture of backbiting, excuses and passing the buck that has dogged this total arse of a season.
-
Oh yes, lots to be positive about, where do we start?
I had Odemwinge in my fantasy team. But I also had Bent and Ashley Young!
-
Drawing at home to sturk and losing to wba today was with mccalister in charge, not Houllier. Just thought I'd let some ppl know this.
-
Drawing at home to sturk and losing to wba today was with mccalister in charge, not Houllier. Just thought I'd let some ppl know this.
You mean McAllister? You're absolutely right it was the assistant manager Gary McAllister, appointed by manager Gerard Houllier, who has presided over Gerard Houllier's Aston Villa team for the last two matches and picked up one point.
-
All sympathy aside, it's abslolutely fuckin shit and has been since day one.
-
It's the blind leading the blind
-
Twice Petrov was a decent ball short of a relatively easy assist for Bent to convert - twice he fucked up.
Him; Dunne, Young L and NRC must be shipped out as soon as.
Don't blame McA too much, he's an Asst Manager for a good reason.
'Root and branch' for the millionth time since I've supported the club.
-
Surely the debate about who is most at fault is pointless when they all are. Randy made a dodgy appointment, particularly in mind of the timing of it, and failed to rectify a bad situation when it was a realistic option. To be fair getting Bent in might have bought us out of the shit, which is due some praise. Houllier - under different circumstances probably would have been good for the club but not the man to inherit a rabble of fat, limited players with shit attitudes after a charismatic manager holding them together fucked off at the eleventh hour. And GM just an empty uniform clearly held in contempt by the players plus a managerial lightweight - absolutely not the man to get us over the line. And the players themselves are beneath contempt, with a few exceptions. Gutless wankers, bottled it again and again when we've had a chance to pull away, especially the so called senior players. Add in O'fuckface laughing his shrivelled old bollocks off somewhere (the biggest single culprit), MacDonald who bottled it and put us deeper in the shit with some diabolical results and it's just one giant unmitigated clusterfuck. I just hope the summer is a total fucking bonfire, and I still trust Randy to do that.
-
Drawing at home to sturk and losing to wba today was with mccalister in charge, not Houllier. Just thought I'd let some ppl know this.
You mean McAllister? You're absolutely right it was the assistant manager Gary McAllister, appointed by manager Gerard Houllier, who has presided over Gerard Houllier's Aston Villa team for the last two matches and picked up one point.
Absolutely. Why don't people seem to understand that G Mac was appointed by Houllier?
-
Houllier has been an awful appointment. As villa managers go he's down there with Turner, McNeil and Venglos.
-
Thankfully, we only have 3 more weeks of this regime to endure
-
Luke Young and Coker certainly do NOT deserve to be 'shipped out' as soon as. Both are good players who do offer something to the team.
L.Young is a good left-back, he plays in that position well and Coker has put energy back into the midfield. Coker may not be the most skillful and talented of players, but he tries hard and plays hard from start to finish.
-
I love it. As soon as we lose a game the knee jerks come out. So boring and so predictable. We lost 2-1 away against probably the best baggies team in 20years with our manager just out of hospital. I suggest some of you go and support Liverpool, you will fit right in. Completely short sighted opinions....
I agree with you.
Maybe was O'leary was right...we are fickle.
-
It's our first defeat in5 and was very close...now there are calls to sack the management-where was this thread during the last four weeks? Fucking no where. I call this knee jerk. And very boring.
I think you are McAllister using an alias!
Haha, I'm glad I'm not, it would probably send me over the edge reading this thread. I just think that football dynasties are built on continuity and having patience when things aren't going right. I have genuine belief we can turn this round. We need a full close season and pre season. If by the start of November things have not improved I will start a thread with the same title.....
-
I love it. As soon as we lose a game the knee jerks come out. So boring and so predictable. We lost 2-1 away against probably the best baggies team in 20years with our manager just out of hospital. I suggest some of you go and support Liverpool, you will fit right in. Completely short sighted opinions....
I agree with you.
Maybe was O'leary was right...we are fickle.
That's Liverpool, who recognised that, for whatever reason, their managerial team just wasn't doing the business, so they made a change, appointed a new manager and are now in 6th place in the league? How silly of them to be so fickle as to sack their underachieving manager and appoint a better one. They should have stuck with him and been thankful to be flirting with relegation. Scouse idiots.
-
The 7M they paid Woy will be offset by their higher league pos under KK
-
Luke Young and Coker certainly do NOT deserve to be 'shipped out' as soon as. Both are good players who do offer something to the team.
L.Young is a good left-back, he plays in that position well and Coker has put energy back into the midfield. Coker may not be the most skillful and talented of players, but he tries hard and plays hard from start to finish.
I guess 'squad players' then - certainly not 1st teamers per se.
Again, Stewart Downing was the only player willing and talented enough to run at the defence and take them on, something that appears to have been removed from Ash's game.
-
But it's not even that GMac is assistant manager, what's that got to do with the fact he's only managed 1 point out of the last 2 games? Not saying Houllier would have won both matches, but we were on good form until Houllier got ill.
Obvisouly it's more than that because from playing good football and getting good results to playing below average last two games since Houllier has been ill.
-
I love it. As soon as we lose a game the knee jerks come out. So boring and so predictable. We lost 2-1 away against probably the best baggies team in 20years with our manager just out of hospital. I suggest some of you go and support Liverpool, you will fit right in. Completely short sighted opinions....
I agree with you.
Maybe was O'leary was right...we are fickle.
What a load of tosh. Fickle? Are we all supposed to be happy and pretend nothing is wrong? I hate the way that fuckin word gets dragged out every time the fans voice their concerns about what is an absolute shambles of a season. There are enough Spurs fans out there calling us fickle without our own supporters doing so. What are these "knee jerk reactions" anyway? We have been in the shit all season, it's not as if people are kicking off over one result, it's the 8 months of bullshit we've had to put up with.
-
Luke Young and Coker certainly do NOT deserve to be 'shipped out' as soon as. Both are good players who do offer something to the team.
L.Young is a good left-back, he plays in that position well and Coker has put energy back into the midfield. Coker may not be the most skillful and talented of players, but he tries hard and plays hard from start to finish.
I guess 'squad players' then - certainly not 1st teamers per se.
Again, Stewart Downing was the only player willing and talented enough to run at the defence and take them on, something that appears to have been removed from Ash's game.
Agree about Downing we are bloody lucky he's in the form he is. Here's a scary thought - imagine where in the league we would be without him and bent.
-
And for fucks sake all football fans are fickle.
I wish people would stop throwing around the word like an insult like that cocknose who used to be our manager did.
-
Meh. What a fucking let down.
-
Back to the thread question ?
Answer : Yes
We've simply gone from one catstophe to another this season
A club of this size & importance cannot continue this way
-
(http://i55.tinypic.com/4qgbpx.jpg)
-
(http://i55.tinypic.com/4qgbpx.jpg)
Ha! Nicked.
-
I love it. As soon as we lose a game the knee jerks come out. So boring and so predictable. We lost 2-1 away against probably the best baggies team in 20years with our manager just out of hospital. I suggest some of you go and support Liverpool, you will fit right in. Completely short sighted opinions....
I agree with you.
Maybe was O'leary was right...we are fickle.
What a load of tosh. Fickle? Are we all supposed to be happy and pretend nothing is wrong? I hate the way that fuckin word gets dragged out every time the fans voice their concerns about what is an absolute shambles of a season. There are enough Spurs fans out there calling us fickle without our own supporters doing so. What are these "knee jerk reactions" anyway? We have been in the shit all season, it's not as if people are kicking off over one result, it's the 8 months of bullshit we've had to put up with.
But surely you can understand that is 8months with horrendous injuries, blooding in kids and a section of the squad that is rotten to the core and yet to be dealt with.
-
@ OP: sorry to nitpick, but Venglos had the luxury of Platt. BFR sold him.
-
Houllier to stay, health permitting.
Gary McAllister to go.
-
The 7M they paid Woy will be offset by their higher league pos under KK
Who's KK? Please don't say your referring to Dalglish as King Kenny. You'll be calling Old Trafford TTOD next.
-
The 7M they paid Woy will be offset by their higher league pos under KK
Who's KK? Please don't say your referring to Dalglish as King Kenny. You'll be calling Old Trafford TTOD next.
*chuckle*
-
I just think that football dynasties are built on continuity and having patience when things aren't going right. I have genuine belief we can turn this round. We need a full close season and pre season. If by the start of November things have not improved I will start a thread with the same title.....
I'd entirely agree with you if the management team had started positively or demonstrated enough ability to buy our trust. If we gave them another year the club will be that much more Houllier-afied meaning that any new manager will have to spend more to remodel the club in his style. Not to mention that Houllier due to age and health can't have that many years left in his locker so a change would be due anyway in 2 or 3 more years.
Personally I'd cut our loses and start again. I'd consider Houllier as an advisor or something. Or if we can get a man capable of building the club from the bottom up I'd get rid of them completely.
-
Luke Young and Coker certainly do NOT deserve to be 'shipped out' as soon as. Both are good players who do offer something to the team.
L.Young is a good left-back, he plays in that position well and Coker has put energy back into the midfield. Coker may not be the most skillful and talented of players, but he tries hard and plays hard from start to finish.
I guess 'squad players' then - certainly not 1st teamers per se.
Again, Stewart Downing was the only player willing and talented enough to run at the defence and take them on, something that appears to have been removed from Ash's game.
Agree about Downing we are bloody lucky he's in the form he is. Here's a scary thought - imagine where in the league we would be without him and bent.
Imagine where we'd be in the league if Downing and Ashley could cross. Now that is scarey.
-
Or if we had a keeper who came off his line once a month
-
I love it. As soon as we lose a game the knee jerks come out. So boring and so predictable. We lost 2-1 away against probably the best baggies team in 20years with our manager just out of hospital. I suggest some of you go and support Liverpool, you will fit right in. Completely short sighted opinions....
I agree with you.
Maybe was O'leary was right...we are fickle.
What a load of tosh. Fickle? Are we all supposed to be happy and pretend nothing is wrong? I hate the way that fuckin word gets dragged out every time the fans voice their concerns about what is an absolute shambles of a season. There are enough Spurs fans out there calling us fickle without our own supporters doing so. What are these "knee jerk reactions" anyway? We have been in the shit all season, it's not as if people are kicking off over one result, it's the 8 months of bullshit we've had to put up with.
But surely you can understand that is 8months with horrendous injuries, blooding in kids and a section of the squad that is rotten to the core and yet to be dealt with.
I can understand that but our defending, particularly at set-pieces has been awful all season and I believe that if we had a better manager and coaching team we would have sorted it out by now. Ally that to throwing away 26 points from winning positions, conceding a ridiculous amount of late goals and failing to score from our own set-pieces and you have to ask serious questions of the management and their ability to motivate/coach the players.
-
Houllier is too wimpy. We need someone like Owen Coyle - a guy with a bit of machoism. If Houllier has any class or dignity, he will respectfully retire using his health reasons. We have no fire.
-
I wish Houllier the very best with his health and I hope he has a long and happy retirement, but I don't want to see either him or McAllister at our club next season, they've been an absolute shambles.
-
Their 2nd goal looked like keystone cops defending albeit i've not seen it on tele yet
How bad was it ? or was it more class from them ?
-
Or if we had a keeper who came off his line once a month
I guess you missed his top class save in the first half today? And last week. In fact, he's kept us in games many a time this season. Agreed he's poor coming off his line. He drives me crazy when at corners he always pushes the opposition player standing in front of him just as the ball is coming over. It's no wonder he's always at a disadvantage on crosses and corners.
-
Or if we had a keeper who came off his line once a month
I guess you missed his top class save in the first half today? And last week. In fact, he's kept us in games many a time this season. Agreed he's poor coming off his line. He drives me crazy when at corners he always pushes the opposition player standing in front of him just as the ball is coming over. It's no wonder he's always at a disadvantage on crosses and corners.
I dont deny he's a good stop shopper, but so are most top flight keepers
We need a keeper who will totally dominate his space, Friedel simply does not do that
-
I'd like to know when people are going to start pointing fingers at the "professional footballers" we have at the club. The ones that when they get in certain positions cannot do the job. The numerous times players on fifty grand plus a week managed to sky the ball, hit their crosses long, not take shots, mis-hit passes. I don't rate McAllister and I wish GH had got Duverne and Thompson, but not for a second do I think him and Sid are out there Monday to Friday telling the players, or teaching them to do any of that.
-
If we think LYoung is a good LB, then that is half the problem.
Lyoung, Dunne, Collins, Petrov , NRC, Heskey, Carew , Warnock ALL need to go.
NRC is ok, but if he wants £50k, then hes not worth it tbh.Good up and coming players is what we need.Personally i can't wait for them lot to go, so far his record of imports has been good, so i would be quite happy if GH stayed at the club in some capacity, and used his knowledge to bring in young hungry players.
-
When was the last time we had one that did? Bosnich?
-
I watched today's game on FSC in the U.S. and about three times the announcer mentioned that our Villa are Prince William's favorite team. Maybe he should buy some of Lerner's shares? At least there would be a pretty decent looker (Catherine) to look at in the stands when we suck. As an American, (my wife is from outside Dudley) I couldn't believe all the security separating the Villa fans from the Baggie fans... WTF?
-
I don't mnd Houllier moving upstairs but McAllister seems to be the problem, if we do get a new manager they need to bring in their own team and wish G mac all the best.
-
Where do we start? Abject surrender. Goal up, coasting. Pires. I hate you McAllister. F**k off.
-
8 months of horrendous injuries now is is? That's a new one.
You're quite right, GH and Gary Mac have done a remarkable job, all things considered. Or something.
Fully agree that we're a fickle lot. We positively enjoyed previous relegation skirmishes under Dr Jo, GT (twice) and DOL. Yet for some reason we're moaning about this one. Oh wait a second...
-
I think we will be fine but this summer there will be lots of changes needed on and off the field
-
The spine of our team is just not up to scratch,
Friedel a very good shot stopper still on his day, but signs of decline this season for sure, he does not command his area very well.
Collins / Dunne, an accident waiting to happen, Martin ONeill motivated them to throw everything at the ball every time it came anywhere near the box last season, this is why they looked better, Collins has been shown up time and time again this season to be a complete headless chicken, and Dunne what can you say about the bloke, he has been on a downward spiral all season, lurching from one disaster to another, what does Carlos have to do to get in the side?
Reo Coker / Petrov, Reo tries really hard, he hassles and harries, tackles well etc, but for a premier league midfielder you need to be able to pass the ball better than he does, Stan has some very solid games but is very inconsistent and tires during games, plus he has no mobility to tackle back when he is expected in a 2 man midfield to be box to box.
Bent, is about the only player in the spine of the team we can rely upon, what we need to do is provide him with some kind of service, he has gobbled up several chances that have come his way since he signed, imagine if we created more?
The last two weeks we have seen Stoke and West Brom sit back soke up pressure from us, without us having the guile or creativity to break them down, we have looked very ordinary. Then we are once again undone by a set piece, I dread to think how many we have conceded this season! The 2nd goal today was the kind of situation we have been in for most of the season, a lost ball in midfield, the midfield then do not track back, the defence then plays key stone cops and we concede.
It is simply not good enough, if this is down to Gerard and McAllister fine, then get someone else in during the summer, but for me the players have shown themselves to be sadly lacking the fight, skill or concentration too often this season, and teams have capitalised on this, they do not deserve to wear the shirt especially considering they are earning obscene amounts of money for the priviledge!
If Houiller and Gary Mac are too go, then Dunne, Collins and Warnock can follow. The spine of our team needs to be improved in the summer or we are going nowhere.
-
Well said, good post.
-
Spot on for me PG.
-
Houllier to stay, health permitting.
Gary McAllister to go.
This.
-
Fickle my arse! That was a disgrace. We gave up. Those players today thought they were untouchable. Well, guess what guys, you were crap!
Now what? Go home to your big houses and bugger the fans? We're not fickle, we see effort, we see players who bust a gut, we also see the shirkers.
Step forward all those who think they played well today....
-
I was sitting with the Albion fans today but I thought Dunne looked okay today till he went off and Clark was superb. It was Collins fault for the second he seemed to get cramp but What was he doing on our right wing
-
I'd be more inclined to give some of those players seemingly lacking in fight and concentration a second chance next year, rather than the management team that presides over them.
They've shown previously that they're well able to fight, concentrate and get results over an extended period when representing Villa. The management team don't have that same insurance. We could still probably do with at least one new CB and a LB to shake things up, but I think most of the players who have been either under par or flat out ostracised this year could be big players for us next year. I wouldn't even write off the likes of Dunne and Warnock in that regard (though equally, I wouldn't exactly be distraught to see them depart either).
-
Step forward all those who think they played well today....
The BBC thought we were okay:
Les Roopanarine reports: "Roy Hodgson's recipe for ending a 26-year wait for victory against Aston Villa: fall behind to a comical early own-goal; gently simmer while opponents play you off the park; lose a man to a red card with half an hour to go; bring to boiling point with a late winner; serve to a crowd of elated Albion fans. Simple."
-
Villa: roll over, play dead, give up three points.
-
Spot on Phil.
As terrible and gaffe prone as the management have been the players deserve to shoulder a lot of the blame.
-
Can't say i'm happy for GaryMac to be in charge till the end of the season. I think its a mistake to let things slide over the last few games for the sake of not undermining him. Whether GH comes back in May or not, I hope the clear-out continues. People Like Dunne have proved themsevles unable or unwilling to play anything else than the Hoof so unless we go for some basic manager similar to MON like Allardyce they're still as much use as a chocolate teapot to whoever's in charge
-
Allardyce? Are you mad?
-
Yes, the players have been crap, but the management has been worse.
The Albion players were all probably crap, then they got a good manager !!!
-
I doubt Liverpool fans would agree.
-
Allardyce? Are you mad?
I would be if i wanted Allardyce for the sake of getting something good out of Dunne. that's the only sort of manager who could get him to play. Much better to sell him off to some mugs
-
Now is not a time to panic, we have 2 to 3 months to get it right
-
Im dreading the Wigan game, can you imagine the crowds reaction if we go a goal down and McAllister decides to bring on Pires.......(thats if he is not in the starting 11)
-
Who's up for experimenting v Wigan ?
-
Dear God KG, you would trust the current players for next season?
Get rid of Collins, Dunne, Warnock, NRC, Petrov, Heskey , Carew, Beye, LYoung, Friedel.Bring in sreplacements, then judge.
-
So to keep Dunne, we appoint SA? What about the rest of the squad? I can see the majority of them being chuffed!
Maybe the fans would be , how shall we put it, divided?
-
Who's up for experimenting v Wigan ?
It depends on if you want to call it experimenting or dropping shit players.
-
the trouble is we have a squad of hoofers. perfect for MON and his ilk but useless for any manager wanting it passed. Get rid of GH if you want but unless you get another hoofball merchant in charge, the next manager will have the same problem unless he sells them quick
-
Dear God KG, you would trust the current players for next season?
Get rid of Collins, Dunne, Warnock, NRC, Petrov, Heskey , Carew, Beye, LYoung, Friedel.Bring in sreplacements, then judge.
All those players are on good contracts apart from Carew and I reckon we would not get more than £20m for them all and that is if you can find any clubs who want them and the players will go and it would cost at least £40m to replace them
-
But we don't have a squad of hoofers!
We have creative, quick, inventive players who are having the life squeezed out of them by negative management "tactics".
-
young and downing are not a whole squad moose... and certainly not at the back we ain't and thats where most of the problems are
-
We ended the game today with 4 wingers on the pitch. Enough said really.
-
We ended the day with far more wankers on (and off) the pitch.
-
Fair enough greg, but Reo-coker, Petrov, both Youngs, Downing, Bent, Albrighton (when played) and Walker SHOULD make up for the deficiencies at the back. Or not...
-
the trouble is we have a squad of hoofers. perfect for MON and his ilk but useless for any manager wanting it passed. Get rid of GH if you want but unless you get another hoofball merchant in charge, the next manager will have the same problem unless he sells them quick
Whether we have or haven't got footballers who can play a beautiful passing game is irrelevant. The art of good management in any line of work is to walk into an organisation and look at what is working and what needs fixing. Unless the organisation is fundamentally flawed - and three sixth placed finishes would suggest we were anything but - you don't impose unnecessary changes.
What Houllier and his team has done is decided on how we're going to play regardless of the personnel and imposed a style and system that manifestly isn't working. Our previously rock-solid defence didn't particularly need fixing, but it sure to goodness does now. Rank bad management.
-
i think your asking a bit much to expect GH to try and mimic MON's style for the sake of suiting the players. For a start he'd be useless at it. He obviously thought there was some technical ability in some of them to adapt, but obviously he was wrong...
-
Dear God KG, you would trust the current players for next season?
Get rid of Collins, Dunne, Warnock, NRC, Petrov, Heskey , Carew, Beye, LYoung, Friedel.Bring in sreplacements, then judge.
All those players are on good contracts apart from Carew and I reckon we would not get more than £20m for them all and that is if you can find any clubs who want them and the players will go and it would cost at least £40m to replace them
There is that. And the fact that they've been reliable, solid performers in the past (except Beye/ Heskey - they've pretty much always been a waste of time).
It could be that the likes of Friedel, Dunne and Warnock are in terminal decline. Or it could be that a new manager and new approach (plus new team mates to challenge them) gets them back to performing close to their best.
For me that's still a possibility, though I accept for others they think 'that's it enough. Get rid.'
-
the trouble is we have a squad of hoofers. perfect for MON and his ilk but useless for any manager wanting it passed. Get rid of GH if you want but unless you get another hoofball merchant in charge, the next manager will have the same problem unless he sells them quick
Whether we have or haven't got footballers who can play a beautiful passing game is irrelevant. The art of good management in any line of work is to walk into an organisation and look at what is working and what needs fixing. Unless the organisation is fundamentally flawed - and three sixth placed finishes would suggest we were anything but - you don't impose unnecessary changes.
What Houllier and his team has done is decided on how we're going to play regardless of the personnel and imposed a style and system that manifestly isn't working. Our previously rock-solid defence didn't particularly need fixing, but it sure to goodness does now. Rank bad management.
Spot on.
These are generally class players. In Bent, Downing and Young we've got three players who would walk into pretty much any team in the division. In Gabby, Albrighton, NRC, Makoun, Friedel, Young, and Collins we've got players who would walk into any team in the division bar the big boys.
Yes, this season they've played below what we've come to expect of them but that's not because they're poor players. It's probably a little bit of loss of form but the main blame has to lie with the management.
We need to get rid of Houllier and McAllister as soon as possible and start looking for replacements. There was widespread disgust with Randy for not acting more quickly when MON walked out - he shouldn't make the same mistake again. If we can have a decent team in place for the start of the summer then we have the best chance of being prepared by the time next season starts.
-
I'd be happy with Houllier staying if his health is up to it. However, I really don't want Gary Mac, and if he can't convince Bergues or Phil Thomson to come then I'd be up for a complete overhaul.
This can't go on.
-
I'd be happy with Houllier staying if his health is up to it. However, I really don't want Gary Mac, and if he can't convince Bergues or Phil Thomson to come then I'd be up for a complete overhaul.
This can't go on.
yep, i really wouldn't be happy if we have garymac at the start of the season waiting for GH return. He just doesn't inspire me at all. Apart from his record he just doesn't look manager material to me. To my mind we should have brought someone in till the end of the season or until GH is declared fit or not.
-
They declared GH as being fit for this season - and look what happened. What if this had happened 4 weeks earlier where would we have been if the last two results are anything to go by?
I cannot see that RL can allow GH to be in charge next season, it is like waiting for a time bomb to go off.
Actually I was looking forward to the close season as I believe GH would have brought some interesting players in and shipped some out. However, and I wish him a speedy and healthy recovery, I am afraid that RL and Aston Villa FC cannot take the chance on this happening again and on the Monday following the Liverpool match I would hope to see a club statement thanking GH for his service and wishing him well for the future.
-
It's our first defeat in5 and was very close...now there are calls to sack the management-where was this thread during the last four weeks? Fucking no where. I call this knee jerk. And very boring.
Without wishing to fall out with a fellow Villa supporter - if you were there today and paid out £42 and couldn't
even have a half time pint and then witnessed a shambolic performance in the second half and a bewildering
substitution into the bargain I believe you would understand a knee jerk reaction and arguably a genuine fear
that Mssrs Houllier & McAllister either haven't got a clue what they are doing or have alienated half the squad -
-
Does anybody think that if Houllier were to continues in his present role, he will move McAllister out? somehow I dont think so.
I'm sorry. It hasn't worked out for lots of reasons. Time to change.
-
Didn't understand the appointment at the time and seen nothing to make me change my mind since.
Please get rid Randy or we'll be in terrible strife next season.
-
Didn't understand the appointment at the time and seen nothing to make me change my mind since.
Please get rid Randy or we'll be in terrible strife next season.
I think I'm in a minority here, but I want Houllier to be given a chance next season, health permitting. G-Mac can sling his hook, though.
-
Time for a rethink Lerner
-
Time for a rethink Lerner
Love the respect there for what Mr. Lerner has done for us.
-
I'm sorry, Lerner/Faulkner shouldn't be getting away so easily from this shambles.
This was a shocking appointment on so many levels, the initial dithering, their refusal to look at candidates already in work then hiring a bloke that then couldn't start immediatley (which seemed to take us by surprise) and obviously the choice itself (the reason it surprised everyone was that no one in their right mind would have gone for him - even the bookies didn't list him and they'll list everyone they can think of FFS!).
I just hope that Randy and the Board are also having a long hard look at how they went about the whole recruitment process and get their act together for the Summer.
-
Time for a rethink Lerner
Love the respect there for what Mr. Lerner has done for us.
Not begrudging any of that, Mr Lerner has done wonders for us, but now he needs to act in a way we've not seen yet
Is he beyond criticism or any sort of questioning when things aren't going to plan ? I hope not to see that day
-
I think I'm in a minority here, but I want Houllier to be given a chance next season, health permitting. G-Mac can sling his hook, though.
I'm in that minority as well. (tin hat on head, tonight.)
-
Bob Bradley anyone ? ;D
-
I'm sorry, Lerner/Faulkner shouldn't be getting away so easily from this shambles.
This was a shocking appointment on so many levels, the initial dithering, their refusal to look at candidates already in work then hiring a bloke that then couldn't start immediatley (which seemed to take us by surprise) and obviously the choice itself (the reason it surprised everyone was that no one in their right mind would have gone for him - even the bookies didn't list him and they'll list everyone they can think of FFS!).
I just hope that Randy and the Board are also having a long hard look at how they went about the whole recruitment process and get their act together for the Summer.
show me a club that wouldn't be wrong footed by their shit of a manager walking out a week before the season starts. then show me who we could have got who was employed elsewhere and would have done the same to their club?
-
G-Mac is his little prodigy. I'll be highly surprised if G-Mac goes anywhere while Houllier is in charge. Infact, that sort of thing only ever happens in the event of the Assistant getting a shot at Management - and not much chance of that i'm afraid.
You get one, you'll be getting the other.
Reason numer 3827 why they have to be politley moved on.
-
I cant see how leaving Kevin Mc in charge and letting him and Sid have a crack could have been an worse
-
I'm sorry, Lerner/Faulkner shouldn't be getting away so easily from this shambles.
This was a shocking appointment on so many levels, the initial dithering, their refusal to look at candidates already in work then hiring a bloke that then couldn't start immediatley (which seemed to take us by surprise) and obviously the choice itself (the reason it surprised everyone was that no one in their right mind would have gone for him - even the bookies didn't list him and they'll list everyone they can think of FFS!).
I just hope that Randy and the Board are also having a long hard look at how they went about the whole recruitment process and get their act together for the Summer.
show me a club that wouldn't be wrong footed by their shit of a manager walking out a week before the season starts. then show me who we could have got who was employed elsewhere and would have done the same to their club?
I think MON was a shit for what he did to us too but losing a Manager just before or early in the season is a fairly regular occurance in football. Managers will leave at any time if the right offer comes along from a strong, well established Premiership side.
We need to be a damn sight more purposeful about it next time. And as they've had so much notice now ( Ged's health issues make the decision easier even for them to see now) they'll have no excuses will they.
-
Didn't understand the appointment at the time and seen nothing to make me change my mind since.
Please get rid Randy or we'll be in terrible strife next season.
I actually did understand the appointment at the time, or at least could see some merit in it.
RL and General K lived in the North West for a number of years whilst based at MBNA in Chester, when GH was winning trophies on a fairly frequent basis just down the road. In the weeks leading up to the GH appointment the board made it pretty clear they weren't looking for a stop gap manager post Kevin Mac. They were looking for 'the' manager. They also apparently consulted Graham Taylor and he gave them a ringing endorsement.
It's hard to argue with GH's CV and he brings a wealth of experience to the role. He also has plenty of contacts across the globe. I balanced that with the memories of him turning on a number of his players in the past and publicly humiliating them (Ginola and Westerveld being the stand out cases). Plus his tendency to either claim credit for things that -strictly speaking- weren't down to him, or divert attention away from himself when he was coming under fire. It was always someone else's fault, someone else's responsibility -and these have been traits that have endured throughout his career. Possibly a defence mechanism of sorts, something you'd need to develop in the cut throat world of football management. Maybe he even believed it himself too, at times.
So overall, I was neutral on the appointment. I could see the possible benefits (improvement on style of play, more expansive approach to tactics and transfers and so forth) and also some of the pitfalls (caustic approach to team morale, a bit too happy to run off at the mouth to the media).
He was also, it must be said, a more preferable option at the time to the likes of Curbishley and Sven.
I must say I didn't ever envisage a scenario where he'd send out a weakened side to throw a vital cup game though -as he either didn't believe in himself or his team enough. You'd think part of the things that made him successful previously (and made him disliked elsewhere), the arrogance, the poor losing/ blaming others was ultimately borne out of him being a winner. Winners don't do what he did in March.
Overall it hasn't worked, that much is clear. And I haven't seen enough promise to suggest it will with the benefit of time. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. Plenty of good managers have been sacked in the past. In fairly recent history, the likes of Ramos, Magath and Van Gaal have all found themselves out of work (the latter still is). Why should we be immune to such a scenario? The key is not to exacerbate the thing by persisting with a failed set up either.
-
Sorry but if Lerner hadn't gone for Kevin Mcdonald for a trial period and instead knocked on the door of Everton or elsewhere and tried to persuade the manager to leave a week or so into the season, well they'd have to be pretty unprincipled to jump ship that early. Fair enough after Mcdonald left, but maybe they did look around. We don't know.
-
At the time of his appointment, lets be honest the general assessment amongst Villa fans was WTF !!
It hasn't worked for one reason or another, time to draw a line and start again I'm afraid
-
Fair enough after Mcdonald left, but maybe they did look around. We don't know.
Well i'm talking about the whole period as K-Mac was obviously a stop gap to allow us time, no problem with that (6 games as it turned out which is plenty long enough).
But to then end up with a bloke that hasn't managed for 4 years, has a history of health issues and has been a leading light in that bastion of WC professionalism, the French FA is quite simply madness.
-
I love it. As soon as we lose a game the knee jerks come out. So boring and so predictable. We lost 2-1 away against probably the best baggies team in 20years with our manager just out of hospital. I suggest some of you go and support Liverpool, you will fit right in. Completely short sighted opinions....
On that basis, many a knee will have been jerked throughout the vast majority of this pitiful season. These are not views based on the odd result, but an opinion that has been formed from the substantial body of evidence avaliable.
Make no mistake, the reason we will stay up (probably) is due to the fact the league is of a very mediocre standard.
-
Fair enough after Mcdonald left, but maybe they did look around. We don't know.
Well i'm talking about the whole period as K-Mac was obviously a stop gap to allow us time, no problem with that (6 games as it turned out which is plenty long enough).
But to then end up with a bloke that hasn't managed for 4 years, has a history of health issues and has been a leading light in that bastion of WC professionalism, the French FA is quite simply madness.
Who would you have appointed?
-
I just hope they haven't done the club long term damage. Hopefully the new manager can get us back on track quickly, as if this season never happened. Well you never know.
-
We've avoided relegation only because there are teams that have been more shit than us - a fairly obvious statement until you consider the abundance of talent in the squad. For a team like ours to be still flirting with relegation shows mismanagement of the highest order and whether that comes from GED or his coaching staff makes little difference. They all need to go as I have seen nothing to suggest that anything on the playing side has improved - we might pass it a bit more now but it's all still fairly meaningless and our defence has certainly forgotten why they take to the pitch each game.
If I could see what the coaching staff are trying to achieve on the pitch I would give them some leeway. If I got the impression that there was a strong team mentality I could forgive a lot. If I saw the team at least doing the basics I would feel much more comfortable. If I saw our team come out for a second half fired up and ready to take the points, I'd get excited. If I saw some tactical organisation and sensible substitutions then I would support team selections. The scary thing is that I can't see anything progressing and fully expect to see this really good squad fall apart in the summer. This season could put us back three or four years and the Board really need to appoint a top calibre manager to stop the rot.
-
Didn't understand the appointment at the time and seen nothing to make me change my mind since.
Please get rid Randy or we'll be in terrible strife next season.
I think I'm in a minority here, but I want Houllier to be given a chance next season, health permitting. G-Mac can sling his hook, though.
Massive gamble. Too massive.
-
Good post jembob
-
In a season of transition -as this was tagged pretty much from the moment MON bailed- you'd expect some up and down performances.
One week great, the next game hardly turning up.
This season when we've played badly we've lost and (often) when we've played quite well - we've still lost.
That tells me that the quality of personnel is still there to trouble most opponents, but we're consistently not getting over the line due to poor choices and poor decision making -most of that from the top.
Not prioritising new defenders -if they felt the current lot weren't up to it- deciding that working on set pieces can wait until the summer and so forth.
If you don't have the platform of a safe and secure defence all the bright approach play and neat triangles will ultimately count for shit.
-
add to that a potential exodus of our best players in the summer - both youngs, downing, petrov, nrc...
Does not bode well at all
-
i'm sure he wanted defenders in but there's the question of money. Bent weren't cheap and at the time he probably thought that was a priority given our strike force.
-
Bent was money well spent as I guess his goals have kept us up ?
-
yep. if we'd gone into feb with carew, heskey and gabby, we'd probably be level with west ham
-
I'm sorry gregnash but none of this explains why a team that has consistently challenged for the Champions League places has spent the whole of this season struggling to keep its head above water.
There has been one major player change (Milner) and a number of difficult injuries at the start. However the players are good enough to be much higher up the league and the management team is the only explanation for why they're not.
-
maybe people were blinded by the results as opposed to the performances under MON, but really we were a well drilled side playing not they skillfull football. yep, we should be higher up the league and if we'd reverted to type this season we'd probably wouldn't be far off last season. But we weren't much cop all told. to me GH was trying to change that, maybe too fast for some, but whoever gets the job can't go back to that style. We threw 80m at it and we didn't crack the top4 playing that way so what makes anything think another 80m is gonna work?
-
yep i was blinded by the
5-1 home win v SHA
2-0 home win v Chelski
3-1 win at Liverpool
1-0 win at Man Ure
4-2 win v Ci££y
+ countless other wins vs SHA, WBA & Wolves
Yes I'm blinded
-
maybe people were blinded by the results as opposed to the performances under MON
But the results get you points, performances don't.
I could see your argument if it was a short spell of lucky victories but this was a consistent 3 years of high finishes and but for the injury to Laursen we probably would've cracked the Big 4.
I'm no fan of MON - I thought he'd done a great job until I realised just how much money he was chucking at ordinary players who weren't even in the team. But Houllier and McAllister have been an unmitigated disaster. They've destroyed the team spirit and confidence we had before whilst causing a load of injuries with their ridiculous training methods at the start and then trying to force the players to play a system which completely ignores their strengths. I just can't see any positives to their involvement.
-
Fair enough after Mcdonald left, but maybe they did look around. We don't know.
Well i'm talking about the whole period as K-Mac was obviously a stop gap to allow us time, no problem with that (6 games as it turned out which is plenty long enough).
But to then end up with a bloke that hasn't managed for 4 years, has a history of health issues and has been a leading light in that bastion of WC professionalism, the French FA is quite simply madness.
Who would you have appointed?
Well that's an interesting one because we've often said yourself that when a vacany arises at B6 we'd have Managers lining up to take over - i'll give RL the benefit of the doubt and say they wern't and that's why we settled for GH.
That may well be down to the shite timing of MON's departure though so clearly that excuse won't wash this time around.
Houllier wouldn't have been on my shortlist and neither was he on anybody else's it seems other than Randys.
At the time I'd have honestly taken Ericsson over Houllier but ideally I'd like Van Gaal or Moyes now. I'm secretly hopeful that we might get a surprise application from a proven name that fancies the challenge of taking on a prestigeous, well established Premiership side with plenty of young talent and a free reign from the Board - that should be a highly attractive proposition so that might flush out a candidate that takes us all by surprise - Joachim Louw, Hiddink, etc.
-
yeah and what about the hammerings? last season we went backwards and before that we'd basically hit a glass ceiling which was the limit of how high MON's system could get you., and even MON's greatest supporter would have been worried going into a season with no milner and a strikeforce of heskey, gabby and carew. If its GH then how come Carew isn't slamming them in from all angles for stoke? they should suit him. bottom line is Milner was a key player not replaced and the likes of petrov and carew have got old and the ex-manager didn't replace them
-
Which every way anybody wants to argue this season - it has been bad, very bad.
For me the 2 goals against ManU are the only decent highlight and a false dawn.
Lets hope the board can make a swift move in two weeks time.
-
The only way i could see this as anything but the worst season the club has had since we last got promoted is if we win all of the last 3 games, putting us on 50 points.
Just to recap, a team that finished 6th and got to a cup final and cup semi final last season (albeit playing turgid football much of the time) has;
Lost to Blues in one cup, to see them go on to win it.
Lost to the Wolves for the first time in roughly 30 years. And at home.
Lost to the Albion for the first time in roughly 25 years.
Surrendered in another cup.
Given away countless goals in the last 5 mins.
Flirted with relegation, and still won't be far off if we don't win next week against Wigan.
Had numerous reports of unrest in the squad.
Who do i blame? Everyone at the club with any connection to the playing side is fair game, except a handful of players.
Positives;
Signing Darren Bent, and his subsequent contribution, without which it would have been even worse.
The emergence of some decent young talent, particularly Albrighton.
We need a revolving door in the summer, including the manager, who i wish a speedy recovery.
-
Fair enough after Mcdonald left, but maybe they did look around. We don't know.
Well i'm talking about the whole period as K-Mac was obviously a stop gap to allow us time, no problem with that (6 games as it turned out which is plenty long enough).
But to then end up with a bloke that hasn't managed for 4 years, has a history of health issues and has been a leading light in that bastion of WC professionalism, the French FA is quite simply madness.
Who would you have appointed?
Well that's an interesting one because we've often said yourself that when a vacany arises at B6 we'd have Managers lining up to take over - i'll give RL the benefit of the doubt and say they wern't and that's why we settled for GH.
That may well be down to the shite timing of MON's departure though so clearly that excuse won't wash this time around.
Houllier wouldn't have been on my shortlist and neither was he on anybody else's it seems other than Randys.
At the time I'd have honestly taken Ericsson over Houllier but ideally I'd like Van Gaal or Moyes now. I'm secretly hopeful that we might get a surprise application from a proven name that fancies the challenge of taking on a prestigeous, well established Premiership side with plenty of young talent and a free reign from the Board - that should be a highly attractive proposition so that might flush out a candidate that takes us all by surprise - Joachim Louw, Hiddink, etc.
That's all very well, but I can imagine the furore had Sven got the job fresh from his time at Notts County, Mexico & the Ivory Coast. There may be a fresh slate to choose from in May, but at the time the choice was limited - and didn't the previous incumbent know it.
-
The only way i could see this as anything but the worst season the club has had since we last got promoted is if we win all of the last 3 games, putting us on 50 points.
Just to recap, a team that finished 6th and got to a cup final and cup semi final last season (albeit playing turgid football much of the time) has;
Lost to Blues in one cup, to see them go on to win it.
Lost to the Wolves for the first time in roughly 30 years. And at home.
Lost to the Albion for the first time in roughly 25 years.
Surrendered in another cup.
Given away countless goals in the last 5 mins.
Flirted with relegation, and still won't be far off if we don't win next week against Wigan.
Had numerous reports of unrest in the squad.
Who do i blame? Everyone at the club with any connection to the playing side is fair game, except a handful of players.
Positives;
Signing Darren Bent, and his subsequent contribution, without which it would have been even worse.
The emergence of some decent young talent, particularly Albrighton.
We need a revolving door in the summer, including the manager, who i wish a speedy recovery.
im struggling to argue with much of that
-
Sven was slightly higher on my list than Houllier, although not much higher. The only ones below Houllier that had been suggested were Bradley, Southgate and Zola for me. To be fair though, i have no idea who applied, who looked decent in the interviews etc. It was pretty uninspiring, but we were left in the shit by MON. What we do need to do though is take decisive action and call it a day. For Houlliers health, as well as the club, and hopefully we'll see the back of McAllister as well. I can't put my finger on why i find him so objectionable. I just do.
-
Cos he's Scottish ?
-
thinking back i can't remember a time with a less decent list of unemployed managers than when MON left to be honest. As everyone else has stated, Houllier wasn't even on the radar for me but seeing none of those other unemployed names are currently running away with a league somewhere i find it hard to pick fault. Of the employed names, timing is everything and i think we'd have struggled to persuade say a moyes to jump ship at that time
-
The only way i could see this as anything but the worst season the club has had since we last got promoted is if we win all of the last 3 games, putting us on 50 points.
Just to recap, a team that finished 6th and got to a cup final and cup semi final last season (albeit playing turgid football much of the time) has;
Lost to Blues in one cup, to see them go on to win it.
Lost to the Wolves for the first time in roughly 30 years. And at home.
Lost to the Albion for the first time in roughly 25 years.
Surrendered in another cup.
Given away countless goals in the last 5 mins.
Flirted with relegation, and still won't be far off if we don't win next week against Wigan.
Had numerous reports of unrest in the squad.
Who do i blame? Everyone at the club with any connection to the playing side is fair game, except a handful of players.
Positives;
Signing Darren Bent, and his subsequent contribution, without which it would have been even worse.
The emergence of some decent young talent, particularly Albrighton.
We need a revolving door in the summer, including the manager, who i wish a speedy recovery.
A perfect summing up. Never wanted a season to end as much in my life.
-
That's all very well, but I can imagine the furore had Sven got the job fresh from his time at Notts County, Mexico & the Ivory Coast. There may be a fresh slate to choose from in May, but at the time the choice was limited - and didn't the previous incumbent know it.
We'll never know for sure but I would suggest that whoever was appointed would have a very difficult job. For instance how well prepared/fit were the players when MON left. There were a series of rumours at the end of the previous season and links with Hughes. It might be that MON knew he was leaving and hadn't prepared the team as well as he could have. Whether that was just human nature or deliberate sabotage we'll never know.
On the flip side the next guy - assuming there is one - will take over a talented squad with a group of youngster that could save us millions. It'd be a great opportunity to make (Boas Villas) or cement your reputation (Van Gaal/Hiddink).
If I was a manager I would be chomping at the bit to take over at Villa. I hope right now we are asking some of the top mangers as there is a chance we could get one.
...ah the benefit of a few beers!
-
Who's up for experimenting v Wigan ?
Fuck me. Light dawns on marble head.
-
WBA(a) lost 2-0, Bham(a) lost 3-2, Bham(h) lost 2-1, Bham(a) lost 2-1, Bham (h) lost 1-0, Bham (a) lost 1-0, WBA (h) lost 1-0,
The above results all 'achieved' by a previous manager of Villa, before winning the league. Oh how we all used to write our 'Saunders Out' letters to the Evening Mail or start threads on Ye old internet.
PS. Dont know how many were after 2 wins and 2 draws in the previous 4 games, I can check all that if you want ??
-
Without dwelling for too long on the seasons that have made me almost weep, I still can't get beyond the dross-days of JG (Wembley in 2000 was a particular low point for me). The irony is that the Blues may still go down this season ... but what happens with the neighbours is actually not that important right now 'cos our own problems should be the focus.
Yesterday, several senior players let us down - Dunne, Collins and AY in particular. Should have been home and dry at half-time, but GMac making a - frankly - bizarre decision about bringing on Pires and removing NRC seemed strange, and the defending for the two goals was the stuff of Keystone Kops. A microcosm of our season's defending.
My view on things is that there are too many "Big Bollox" at the club and not enough team-players. Dunne, Collins, AY, GMac - all probably with massive ego problems .... we need a clear-out and a new start; which means a new manager who can exploit the raw talent in the youff.
Get someone in early, get rid of the dross and build for next season. With or without GH, but definitely without GMac.
-
If this umpteenth defeat (and humiliation: you can't lose 11 against ten with such an average team) can have a sense, it is that there was the risk that, after three positive results against poor and not motivated teams, many forgot the awful season that we had and were going to concede credit to the manager, wheras his failure is now well clear.
Thanks God we are 90% safe (and beating Wigan we shall definitely).
And thanks God we have a great club and a great President.
Now we need to turn the corner.
A bit of fresh air, please.
Lambert. Moyes, Hughes, Zola, Ancelotti or Coyle would be more than welcome.
-
The Wigan game is now another Cup Final
-
last season we went backwards
Did we? We went on two good cup runs and finished 6th. If last season was going backwards, then i hate to think what you call this season?
-
thinking back i can't remember a time with a less decent list of unemployed managers than when MON left to be honest.
But why did we have to take an unemployed manager on?
Why did we not head hunt a better coach?
-
So when we got 8 points from 4 games it's nothing to do with the management, now we unluckily lost it's all the management's fault.? Hmmm
-
So when we got 8 points from 4 games it's nothing to do with the management, now we unluckily lost it's all the management's fault.? Hmmm
I'm not sure if we unluckily lost somehow. We lost against a team who were poor with 11 men on the pitch, never mind 10, and then our manager goes and makes a complete balls up of a substitution which he did'nt need to make.
-
I get where they were coming from though. The senior folk at the club seemed genuinely hurt by MON walking out at the eleventh hour. I can understand why they were reticent to bring someone in who was prepared to do the very same to their current club.
I think Houllier will go this summer and I would be very surprised if the first name on the list to speak to wasn't David Moyes.
-
So when we got 8 points from 4 games it's nothing to do with the management, now we unluckily lost it's all the management's fault.? Hmmm
I'm not sure if we unluckily lost somehow. We lost against a team who were poor with 11 men on the pitch, never mind 10, and then our manager goes and makes a complete balls up of a substitution which he did'nt need to make.
We lost because we couldn't score, we had our most attacking team out and finished the game as attack minded as possible.
The management cannot be blamed for players making terrible decisions when in the attacking third, or for having a winger who demands to take every set piece yet he cannot cross anymore.
-
The management cannot be blamed for players making terrible decisions when in the attacking third, or for having a winger who demands to take every set piece yet he cannot cross anymore.
On the contrary, I think they're very much to blame for allowing this to perpetuate.
-
So when we got 8 points from 4 games it's nothing to do with the management, now we unluckily lost it's all the management's fault.? Hmmm
I'm not sure if we unluckily lost somehow. We lost against a team who were poor with 11 men on the pitch, never mind 10, and then our manager goes and makes a complete balls up of a substitution which he did'nt need to make.
We lost because we couldn't score, we had our most attacking team out and finished the game as attack minded as possible.
The management cannot be blamed for players making terrible decisions when in the attacking third, or for having a winger who demands to take every set piece yet he cannot cross anymore.
Brian Clough would'nt have let players dictate who takes the free kicks, if that is indeed the case. He's scored one set piece this season.
As for ending the game with an attacking team, yes, we had 4 wingers across the midfield and no centre midfield whatsoever.
-
The management cannot be blamed for players making terrible decisions when in the attacking third, or for having a winger who demands to take every set piece yet he cannot cross anymore.
On the contrary, I think they're very much to blame for allowing this to perpetuate.
Yeah but because we have a stupid policy of not giving long contracts, players like Ash have all the aces. He knows he will not be dropped and just basically does what he likes and unfortunately we are not the same team when Ash isn't playing.
-
Shrek is right.I've calmed down a bit now, and with 60% of posession , how did we lose that game?
We have lost more points from winning positions than any other team in the Prem.We have not kept a clean sheet away from home since when?We do not have enough bad losers in our team.You watch the players reaction when Olbion scored, it was not anger it was acceptance.......not good enough.
Yes GH has made mistakes this year, but not as many as some of the senior players.It is now getting to the stage where i am thinking how many of these mistakes are intentional.Their lack of professionalism has been embarrassing.
I would like GH to stay tbh, but i will not lose any sleep if he goes, but i would be gutted if players like Dunne, Collins, Petrov, Beye, Warnock, Heskey , Carew, i could add a few more to that list as well, are still here next season.
We are a poor mans Arsenal, all skill no bottle.
-
So, Rob Beasley was on Sunday supplement saying jose mourinho has had two premier league clubs contact him about coming back to the EPL next season. Was Randy one of them you think?
-
I've been to every game this season, so now it's time for a rant!
I didn't want Houllier in the first place, but being a Villa Supporter, unduely gave him my full backing. The appointment was a disaster from day one starting with the announcement that in his press conference he was yet to sign the contract, didnt know his start date, and stated we were a top twelve team. Cheers Gerrard.
I was at the Blackburn League Cup game and was pleased with the style of football. Emile scored with his first touch and played like Pele. The fact Phil Thompson turned the Assistant Managers job worried me. I was even more concerned when he appointed Garry Mac. A good friend of mine is a Boro season ticket holder, another one Leeds. And they both said he was a disaster and lost both dressing rooms.
I have to admit to beig very pleased with the performances against Spurs away, Fulham away, and Man Utd at home. For me, It all went wrong at Blackburn away. The players gave the reaction that they didnt know their own individual roles, and their wasn't any inspiration of leadership coming from the bench.
Then as we know the wheels with the came off. I can't forgive Houllier for waving at the Kop, during that dissmal defeat. It was minus 7 that night, and cost the best part of 100 pounds to make the trip, and the time spent off work etc. We should have dismissed him then or at leasrt gave him a final warning. I've been deflated ever since the City away performance and the Sunderland at home game. Then should have been the time to get rid. Whatever we think of the players, and they are accountable, the bulk stops with the manager. He's lost the dressing room and that isn't going to change.
-
So, Rob Beasley was on Sunday supplement saying jose mourinho has had two premier league clubs contact him about coming back to the EPL next season. Was Randy one of them you think?
Do you think we want that moaning, purveyor of negative football anywhere near Villa Park...?
If there's any truth to the rumour, I'd say the two clubs are Man City and Chelsea (I'd love to see an apologetic Abramovich grovelling). Arsenal as an outside bet.
-
Whatever we think of the players, and they are accountable, the bulk stops with the manager.
Sums up Richard Dunne.
-
Randy is in a tough situation here.
He can't fire Houllier for what he has been through but can he be diplomatic and move him upstairs.
However, then you have to wonder who would want to manage when there is a DOF negotiating tranfers. Certainly not Moyes or Hughes.
Can only think of promoting Kevin McDonald.
McAllister has to be the sacrifice.
Maybe medical advice will be Randy's saviour.
-
So, Rob Beasley was on Sunday supplement saying jose mourinho has had two premier league clubs contact him about coming back to the EPL next season. Was Randy one of them you think?
Do you think we want that moaning, purveyor of negative football anywhere near Villa Park...?
If there's any truth to the rumour, I'd say the two clubs are Man City and Chelsea (I'd love to see an apologetic Abramovich grovelling). Arsenal as an outside bet.
Spurs and Man City are my bets
Redknapp to Chelsea and Mancini to Juventus
-
why can't he sack Houllier, is there legal precedent against sacking managers who are susceptible to heart problems.
Sentiment is fine when it suits but we are talking here of a multimillion pound company sinking on the back of being nice.
A decision needs making now we can't unload all the overpaid dross Mon bought that easily and someone new needs to be in charge soonest to take over the clubs leadership, especially as Faulkner is as dynamic as an anaemic tortoise, to ensure as much of what quality we have stays.
-
The only way i could see this as anything but the worst season the club has had since we last got promoted is if we win all of the last 3 games, putting us on 50 points.
Just to recap, a team that finished 6th and got to a cup final and cup semi final last season (albeit playing turgid football much of the time) has;
Lost to Blues in one cup, to see them go on to win it.
Lost to the Wolves for the first time in roughly 30 years. And at home.
Lost to the Albion for the first time in roughly 25 years.
Surrendered in another cup.
Given away countless goals in the last 5 mins.
Flirted with relegation, and still won't be far off if we don't win next week against Wigan.
Had numerous reports of unrest in the squad.
Who do i blame? Everyone at the club with any connection to the playing side is fair game, except a handful of players.
Positives;
Signing Darren Bent, and his subsequent contribution, without which it would have been even worse.
The emergence of some decent young talent, particularly Albrighton.
We need a revolving door in the summer, including the manager, who i wish a speedy recovery.
"Surrendered in another cup." - tell me what did the "Great" O'Neil do in the Europa League against Moscow, also how many times did he surrender the Carling Cup until last season?.
Just for the record i am NOT a Houllier fan i don't want him here next season and if i'm honest i don't want McAllister here past tomorrow, but If The "Great" O'Neil had done the honourable thing and left at the start of last summer I am pretty certain Houllier & McAllister wouldn't be at villa. As it was obvious from 5 days before the season started that this season was gonna be a wreck and it was only stupid people that would have thought deferent and would take on the job.
-
Houllier can move into a head of scouting role, McAllister can go and play on the M6 and we should get Moyes, Hughes or Lambert in. We're in as big a mess as we were in 1987.
-
There's no point being sentimental about it. I want Houllier to recover and live a happy and fulfilled retirement but I don't want him in charge after this summer. There are now big question marks on his health, not to mention his record and aptitude for the modern Premiership. I'm more concerned with the dynamics involved with any new manager coming in, so it doesn't particularly matter to me whether Houllier has some pipe and slippers role at the club, but only if that is what the new boss wants. Randy letting Houllier go, with a little good grace, would in the long term do all parties a big favour.
-
The only way i could see this as anything but the worst season the club has had since we last got promoted is if we win all of the last 3 games, putting us on 50 points.
Just to recap, a team that finished 6th and got to a cup final and cup semi final last season (albeit playing turgid football much of the time) has;
Lost to Blues in one cup, to see them go on to win it.
Lost to the Wolves for the first time in roughly 30 years. And at home.
Lost to the Albion for the first time in roughly 25 years.
Surrendered in another cup.
Given away countless goals in the last 5 mins.
Flirted with relegation, and still won't be far off if we don't win next week against Wigan.
Had numerous reports of unrest in the squad.
Who do i blame? Everyone at the club with any connection to the playing side is fair game, except a handful of players.
Positives;
Signing Darren Bent, and his subsequent contribution, without which it would have been even worse.
The emergence of some decent young talent, particularly Albrighton.
We need a revolving door in the summer, including the manager, who i wish a speedy recovery.
"Surrendered in another cup." - tell me what did the "Great" O'Neil do in the Europa League against Moscow, also how many times did he surrender the Carling Cup until last season?.
Just for the record i am NOT a Houllier fan i don't want him here next season and if i'm honest i don't want McAllister here past tomorrow, but If The "Great" O'Neil had done the honourable thing and left at the start of last summer I am pretty certain Houllier & McAllister wouldn't be at villa. As it was obvious from 5 days before the season started that this season was gonna be a wreck and it was only stupid people that would have thought deferent and would take on the job.
Who said O Neill was 'Great'?
I'm not sure whether you are agreeing with me or not, from your tone i'm thinking you aren't but from what you've wrote i'm thinking you are. Are you confused?
-
We're in as big a mess as we were in 1987.
No we're not.
-
"Surrendered in another cup." - tell me what did the "Great" O'Neil do in the Europa League against Moscow, also how many times did he surrender the Carling Cup until last season?.
The Moscow debacle was awful and then heaped pressure on the next league game which caused us to choke. You would have though lessons would have been learnt at the club that we don't throw in the towel in those ways as it doesn't work, especially when either manager actually admits they were throwing the game as they did not think it would be winnable.
I would argue though that the above two examples are different then using the squad in matches against lower league opposition.It is a good tactic to blood players and use the rest of the squad which although it can backfire, in most cases the players should be good enough to overcome those teams. I would have had no problem with Houllier doing that against Burnley or Sheffield Utd and the only reason we didn't was more down to the bare bones of the squad.
-
"Surrendered in another cup." - tell me what did the "Great" O'Neil do in the Europa League against Moscow, also how many times did he surrender the Carling Cup until last season?.
The Moscow debacle was awful and then heaped pressure on the next league game which caused us to choke. You would have though lessons would have been learnt at the club that we don't throw in the towel in those ways as it doesn't work, especially when either manager actually admits they were throwing the game as they did not think it would be winnable.
I would argue though that the above two examples are different then using the squad in matches against lower league opposition.It is a good tactic to blood players and use the rest of the squad which although it can backfire, in most cases the players should be good enough to overcome those teams. I would have had no problem with Houllier doing that against Burnley or Sheffield Utd and the only reason we didn't was more down to the bare bones of the squad.
after the moscow game my mate told me that if we get champs league then that man would have been justified. so i'll do the same If (which i think we will) stay up then man city FA Cup game is justified.
anyway as soon as the season ends Houllier should be moved upstairs and McAllister should be sacked.
-
Fuck it, just get Moyes. Get him to bring Baines with him and he can build a solid backline to go with the quality we have in the final third.
He's a Villa manager waiting to happen.
-
Fuck it, just get Moyes. Get him to bring Baines with him and he can build a solid backline to go with the quality we have in the final third.
He's a Villa manager waiting to happen.
I like it.
-
What annoys me most, is how much we have spent in the last few years on our defence and it's now shit!
-
What annoys me most, is how much we have spent in the last few years on our defence and it's now shit!
True but Friedel was never going to be long term, neither was Dunne really I guess. Beye was (and still is) a complete mystery, and Carlos has been well and truly dicked about. Shorey wasn't good enough either.
I think our major bollock drop was the Cahill sale, but we all know this...oh how I'd like our centre two to be Cahill and Clark next season.
And we'll still need both full backs replacing...the mind boggles.
-
this farce reminds me of someone I used to work with. Really nice chap but fucking shit at the job
-
Perfect opportunity to start fresh. Not knocking Houllier but he was not ever our first choice manager and Mcallister was 3-4th choice assistant. It has gone horribly wrong. And now is the time to appoint a new management team. Clear out all the players who are not up to the required standard and start again, using the sales to build a new "era" .......
-
Who was our first choice, then?
-
What annoys me most, is how much we have spent in the last few years on our defence and it's now shit!
True but Friedel was never going to be long term, neither was Dunne really I guess. Beye was (and still is) a complete mystery, and Carlos has been well and truly dicked about. Shorey wasn't good enough either.
I think our major bollock drop was the Cahill sale, but we all know this...oh how I'd like our centre two to be Cahill and Clark next season.
And we'll still need both full backs replacing...the mind boggles.
Not that anyone shed a tear when they departed (and I'm certainly not going to be hypocritical and say I always knew we'd miss them) but Ridgewell and Hughes have carved out decent careers as a LB and CB respectively.
Probably not the first names you'd immediately think of when it came to the whole 'proud history bright future' tagline. But they couldn't be much worse than some of their replacements in recent years.
-
If GH can't continue and we do get Moyes, I hope he gets off to a better start to a season than he's done in recent years at Everton. Heaven knows what this place would be like if in December we're sitting 3rd from bottom.
-
If GH can't continue and we do get Moyes, I hope he gets off to a better start to a season than he's done in recent years at Everton. Heaven knows what this place would be like if in December we're sitting 3rd from bottom.
His Everton teams nearly always finish above Villa though, so he must be doing something right.
-
If GH can't continue and we do get Moyes, I hope he gets off to a better start to a season than he's done in recent years at Everton. Heaven knows what this place would be like if in December we're sitting 3rd from bottom.
His Everton teams nearly always finish above Villa though, so he must be doing something right.
Risso, I've got nothing against Moyes. I just hope some people will understand that even with very good managers it doesn't go perfectly all of the time. Moyes will make us solid, if unspectacular, and I've said before, maybe he needs a change in order to meet his goals.
-
That's my biggest concern too.
He's well within his comfort zone there, he might bemoan lack of funds from time to time but with that comes an awareness (except from the most delusional of Everton fans) that 5-7th consistently is actually quite good. Probably says a lot about this division that you can be as low as third/fourth bottom in Dec -with only one home win on the board- and still finish in and around the European places.
-
Is all the Moyes speculation confined to Villa fans talk or is there a wider rumour mill that he'll be here next season ?
-
That's my biggest concern too.
He's well within his comfort zone there, he might bemoan lack of funds from time to time but with that comes an awareness (except from the most delusional of Everton fans) that 5-7th consistently is actually quite good. Probably says a lot about this division that you can be as low as third/fourth bottom in Dec -with only one home win on the board- and still finish in and around the European places.
In the end, MON made us consistently on par with the likes of Everton. Solid, but unable to break into the upper echelons of the PL (yes, I know Everton did manage it once). The one thing that none of us really know is that Moyes had received the financial backing of his club more often when he was close, or in the summer of any of those seasons would have achieved 4th or better on more than the one occasion? And by saying that, would he be able to take us to that level, because he'd likely have that backing?
-
That's ultimately what it boils down to, yeah.
The other issue is that, yes, he might have been just one or two players away at Everton from achieving that. At Villa he'd pretty much have to start again. Not completely from scratch -there is a solid enough base there- but they're not 'his' players, not schooled in his methods and approach.
Can he get a positive reaction from the existing crop and add the players he needs to help us go the extra mile? That's the challenge and -if I'm honest- I have my doubts.
Against that, his record at Everton means that he would at least deserve a chance to utilise a bigger budget -if his current club continue to not play ball. It's unlikely that he'd be considered for the top 4 jobs, despite Everton fans waffling on about him only leaving for the Man U job. Even Tottenham would probably think they can do better now should 'arry bail in the not too distant.
-
Moyes is a very unecxiting manager, i dont see much difference in his style to MON. His achievement ranks along side MON with a smaller budget and more time. I would not be jumping up and down if we got Moyes, it would be a solid appointment, thats it, solid.
-
I think it would be a bit more than that Hawks.
To me, a Hodgson or similar would be a solid choice. We'd be hard to beat, defensively well drilled, unlikely to ever go down. But not threatening the upper echelons of the division.
Moyes would represent a gamble of sorts, the gamble being that he can replicate some of his success at Everton here and even improve on it. So for me that doesn't make it a safe, or solid option. We'd be looking to improve, not stand still or tread water.
-
KG i am just basing my comment on the style of football Everton play, it has allways been agricultural. Do Leopards change thier spots?
-
Shit I have just realised that I am agreeing with TV
-
Any time I've watched them in recent seasons they've improved in that regard.
I don't recall much kick and rush from them at VP earlier in the campaign, nor last season. Very much quick interchanging, short passes and all that lot. They seem to reserve the more physical stuff for the likes of Arsenal, but even that shows a bit of nous, being prepared to mix it up a bit and play in a manner that least suits the opposition. We have a vulnerability at the back with two lumbering CB's = move the ball fast on the deck in and around them. Arsenal can be got at physically = dish out the rough stuff.
Neither approaches are particularly radical, but it beats playing the same way regardless of opponent.
-
KG I would take Moyes over this regime, no problem. He would at least organise the defence so that we would not be the soft centre that any attack would love to play against. I cant recall whatching Everton under Moyes play anything other than dull conventional football.
-
Everton have played good stuff this season. With better forwards they'd have been challenging the top 6.
I really don't see why moyes would leave unless we promised him a wedge of funding that I doubt we have
-
Who was our first choice, then?
All polls at the time showed it was Jol. I know he did not want to come but Houllier was not even mentioned until the later stages ........
-
Our funds may not be unlimited but they're in a different league to everton's. Moyes could never go out and buy a Bent say. With the best will in the world he's always going to struggle to build a team there and keep it. He's not going to get the call from any of the big 4 realistically so the chance to build something here with improved financies would probably appeal. Either that or stay at Everton indefinately
-
We are the best job Moyes, or any other British manager, could hope to get.
-
Who was our first choice, then?
All polls at the time showed it was Jol. I know he did not want to come but Houllier was not even mentioned until the later stages ........
Bob Bradley was linked with the job for at least a week. Can't remember whether he pre or ante dated Jol.
-
Our funds may not be unlimited but they're in a different league to everton's. Moyes could never go out and buy a Bent say. With the best will in the world he's always going to struggle to build a team there and keep it. He's not going to get the call from any of the big 4 realistically so the chance to build something here with improved financies would probably appeal. Either that or stay at Everton indefinately
Our funds haven't been all that much different from Everton. Moyes spent well over a £100m in the 5 seasons before this one but his net spend is lower because he had Rooney and Lescott to sell. I think he may have spent almost as much on the players he has available in his squad as we have spent on the players that are in our squad.
His big signings of Johnson, Yakubu, Fellani and Bilyaletodinov haven't been the best ever either.
-
The only good thing GH has ever done for Villa was bring in Bent after that i'm struggling! It's highly likely we'll have a new manager for next season i don't see how GH can continue with his health problems! I mean what happens if he takes another dodgy turn halfway through next season it's too risky plus we've been so poor. It's time to cut all ties i'm afraid!
Other teams that were around us last season have got ridiculously strong, us on the other hand have fallen so far behind that we've become an average side competing for nothing! Look what we've become!!
Who ever comes in tell them we need Adam & Taarabt immediately then we can finally wave goodbye to Young who is Citeh spurs or Liveplop bound.
-
I would take Jol his win % seems to get better as he gets older? I think it's time to get a poll up to see what people think?
-
Moyes is a very unecxiting manager, i dont see much difference in his style to MON. His achievement ranks along side MON with a smaller budget and more time. I would not be jumping up and down if we got Moyes, it would be a solid appointment, thats it, solid.
I'm with you on this issue. If Moyes were the real deal, he'd have done even better at Everton than he has (budget notwithstanding). I think our future now lies with an up-and-coming manager, perhaps with Hou upstairs as overseer.
-
I have read on other villa websites that Moyes is a done deal!! cant see it myself, would not be suprised if Houllier goes upstairs then maybe someone like Lambert (if Norwich dont get promoted), cant see a Moyes or Rafa etc.. being too happy with Houllier looking over their shoulder!
-
Which other Villa sites?
-
There are other Villa sites?
-
Which other Villa sites?
a.v.f.c.co.uk ;-)
-
Cos he's Scottish ?
Would be interesting to see what that's got to do with it.
-
Lets face it,they have done shit all season,but this team was shit at the back end of last season,pre-season and with K Mac.The righting was on the wall it needed a shake up.
I don't like McAllister,he's been shit at every club after his playing days finished,bringing the has been Pires on was a total joke.He is clueless.R Wilkins should have been given a go as no 2,and should be now.
-
I think Ray Wilkins is a good call as anyone's number 2, he clearly held the players and the manager together at Chelsea. Gary Mac is clearly about as useful as a carthorse racing a ferrari, and will hopefully be either eased into a coaching roll or out altogether in the summer.
Still not convinced by Moyes, and I think in 3 years we will be discussing his pitfalls and how we are not going anywhere all over again. Such a punchable face too, plus how long would his annual first three months of shit go down? He had time at Everton, but I am not sure he would hit the ground running here.
Jol is as big a gamble as there is and seems to have been going the wrong way in terms of success lately.
Benitez - I think he is worth a shot, but would split opinion.
Beyond that I would like to see us take someone like Lambert who could build something over time. The team was a mess from the League Cup final onwards last season, and the goals being shipped started back then. MON knew it and jumped ship before he got marred with the shit he created. Houllier has brought some decent players in and some youth through a bit, and now we have a chance to get someone fresh, without it being Houllier's or O'Neills team.
-
I will be very dissapointed and utterly disillusioned if those two clowns are still at our club next season.
I will be dreading the start of the new season just like I was prior to DOL getting the elbow.
-
Ray Wilkins makes Gmac sound like Stephen Ireland... Get him in ..
-
I'd love Ray Wilkins at VP.
-
I'd love Ray Wilkins at VP.
-
I'd also like Ray Wilkins, Not as manager though number 2 would be great
-
I find it interesting that so many people are sure McAllister is the real problem whereas Cowans is completely unquestioned. Wonder why that is . . . ?
Personally, I have no way of knowing either way. I'd say, in terms of the coaching staff, the biggest problem is the lack of someone to organise the team. That and the fact that we used to play with 3 centre backs and at least one 6 foot plus big lump up front. Whereas now we just have the two centre backs to attack the ball at set pieces.
-
That's my biggest concern too.
He's well within his comfort zone there, he might bemoan lack of funds from time to time but with that comes an awareness (except from the most delusional of Everton fans) that 5-7th consistently is actually quite good.
Remind you of anyone. Hands up who'd bank 6th next season now? (Not that I think MON would have been able to achieve that).
-
I'd also like Ray Wilkins, Not as manager though number 2 would be great
Me too, but I can't see him leaving that there london
-
If he wants to work at a big club he'll have to
-
I'd also like Ray Wilkins, Not as manager though number 2 would be great
i think ray did really well at QPR!
Me too, but I can't see him leaving that there london
-
The situation at our club stinks, we prize a bloke with dodgy health away from his retirement desk job, who then brings in Jonnah Maclister who obviously has no idea, between them they manage to alienate the players and the fans. Thier perfomance then gives that shitbag MoNiel to be in the position of I told you so, with, it appears many of the squad. believing it. The result an ageing, expensive bunch of players that we need to cuddle up to in order to survive in the Pl. Add to that, just when you think the situation is turning around the bloke in charge ends up in hospital. It is a total disaster.
-
I'd also like Ray Wilkins, Not as manager though number 2 would be great
Calling Mr Peen!
-
According to Matt Kendrick:
GH fate as #avfc boss will be known within 2 weeks of the season ending. See full story in today's Birmingham Mail
-
The situation at our club stinks, we prize a bloke with dodgy health away from his retirement desk job, who then brings in Jonnah Maclister who obviously has no idea, between them they manage to alienate the players and the fans. Thier perfomance then gives that shitbag MoNiel to be in the position of I told you so, with, it appears many of the squad. believing it. The result an ageing, expensive bunch of players that we need to cuddle up to in order to survive in the Pl. Add to that, just when you think the situation is turning around the bloke in charge ends up in hospital. It is a total disaster.
Hard not to agree with any of that.
-
I'd also like Ray Wilkins, Not as manager though number 2 would be great
i tweeted Ray Wilkins last week and asked if he wants to come to villa park. He replied and i quote
"lucky for you im still new to the online world.. or else i'd ignore such a message ! Lts see what next season with sky hold eh ?"
i think that is a no
-
I'd also like Ray Wilkins, Not as manager though number 2 would be great
i tweeted Ray Wilkins last week and asked if he wants to come to villa park. He replied and i quote
"lucky for you im still new to the online world.. or else i'd ignore such a message ! Lts see what next season with sky hold eh ?"
i think that is a no
What u expect him to say? Yes please I'll email Randy?
-
I'd also like Ray Wilkins, Not as manager though number 2 would be great
i tweeted Ray Wilkins last week and asked if he wants to come to villa park. He replied and i quote
"lucky for you im still new to the online world.. or else i'd ignore such a message ! Lts see what next season with sky hold eh ?"
i think that is a no
What u expect him to say? Yes please I'll email Randy?
it was a joke, fucking lighten up
-
There's a reason that McAllister is the harbinger of relegation for football clubs. It's because he's shit. Hopefully we have too many points for even him to manage to take us down, but he's a useless fuck and I hope he gets the sack ASAP.
Let's hope we have enough - anything other than 3 points on Saturday and I will remain extremely nervous for the last 2 games - where I see us getting 0.
As for my views on the management team: They are not good enough at all in my view. I desperately wanted Hodgson to be brought in when Liverpool let him go but we missed a trick. Come the summer it is going to be very difficult;
Moyes/Hughes/ any number of foreign managers are being discussed, but I think that with AY, Walker, Dunne, NRC, etc all more than likely leaving by then & potnetially a further change of manager, then how easy will it be for us to attract a better replacement than the bodies we currently have at the club?
A long and difficult summer for Mr Lerner I think.
Let me just say again though, whilst I was not MONs biggest fan (I loved the results, just not the way we went about then) I think Mr Lerner may well now be regretting dreadfully not being able to placate and keep him at the club. (obviously that would have needed giving him a more or less blank cheque book for players which he wasn't prepared to do, but he is now going to be forced into anyway to whoever is in charge come the summer!)
-
I find it interesting that so many people are sure McAllister is the real problem whereas Cowans is completely unquestioned. Wonder why that is . . . ?
Might be all his wonderful previous work with the highly succesful Leeds and Middlesbrough teams.
-
I find it interesting that so many people are sure McAllister is the real problem whereas Cowans is completely unquestioned. Wonder why that is . . . ?
Might be all his wonderful previous work with the highly succesful Leeds and Middlesbrough teams.
Plus, he's 2nd in command, Sid isn't.
-
What's annoyed me about GH and GMac is that just as you thik they're starting to make some kind of progress, they always make an almighty fuck up. Man City in the cup was the main one and Saturday's bizarre sub was another. Personally, as harsh as it would be, if we get 3 points on Saturday, i'd let them both go straight after the game and put Sid in charge for the last two games.
-
Has this been posted elsewhere in here ?
We may know within 2 weeks of the season ending what our direction will be.
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2011/05/03/aston-villa-gerard-houllier-s-managerial-fate-to-be-known-in-june-97319-28623416/
-
What's annoyed me about GH and GMac is that just as you thik they're starting to make some kind of progress, they always make an almighty fuck up. Man City in the cup was the main one and Saturday's bizarre sub was another. Personally, as harsh as it would be, if we get 3 points on Saturday, i'd let them both go straight after the game and put Sid in charge for the last two games.
While a clean break has some appeal, sacking a bloke while he is off sick would be a pretty shit thing to do. Clearly some big decisions need to be made this summer but it can wait a month.
-
I dont know Chris. There's so much work to do that we could do with getting it sorted immediately.
I hope Houllier sticks around in some capacity (although realistically I cant see it being as manager) but any new manager is going to have his work cut out for him to put it mildly.
We seem to be sounding out targets already, nice and early, as Houllier is known to do. A new manager needs to give them his seal of approval and set his own targets. We could do with all the turmoil this summer will naturally bring whatever happens to be sorted by end of June at the latest so that we have a genuine chance to send a settled, reinvigorated and prepared squad into the new season and challenging back where we belong again.
-
What's annoyed me about GH and GMac is that just as you thik they're starting to make some kind of progress, they always make an almighty fuck up. Man City in the cup was the main one and Saturday's bizarre sub was another. Personally, as harsh as it would be, if we get 3 points on Saturday, i'd let them both go straight after the game and put Sid in charge for the last two games.
While a clean break has some appeal, sacking a bloke while he is off sick would be a pretty shit thing to do. Clearly some big decisions need to be made this summer but it can wait a month.
Quite right Chris it is a very shitty thing to do, nearly as bad as running away from a club as the season starts but these things happen.
However, sometimes they need doing in, of course, the most sympathetic way possible. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made for the overall good, and starting a fresh with plenty of time to do so is what we need above anything else, now.
-
best way to do it is to give houllier a job upstairs...
he can carry on his scouting network overhaul and academy input malarky, and i think he could still be useful doing that, he gets to stay in football without being sacked, we dont look like cocks for sacking a sick man, and we get a new manager and everyone saves face...
-
I dont know Chris. There's so much work to do that we could do with getting it sorted immediately.
I hope Houllier sticks around in some capacity (although realistically I cant see it being as manager) but any new manager is going to have his work cut out for him to put it mildly.
We seem to be sounding out targets already, nice and early, as Houllier is known to do. A new manager needs to give them his seal of approval and set his own targets. We could do with all the turmoil this summer will naturally bring whatever happens to be sorted by end of June at the latest so that we have a genuine chance to send a settled, reinvigorated and prepared squad into the new season and challenging back where we belong again.
Although I agree in principle, I wouldn't get too hung up on this 'end of June' thing. A lot needs to be done, but every summer the majority of deals are July onwards once everyone is back from their jollies, one deal leads to another and a domino effect takes place.
I'd be happy enough to have the managerial issue resolved by the start of pre-season, so that his methods and approaches are adopted from scratch, and then do our dealing once he's had a look at what he's got.
-
What's annoyed me about GH and GMac is that just as you thik they're starting to make some kind of progress, they always make an almighty fuck up. Man City in the cup was the main one and Saturday's bizarre sub was another. Personally, as harsh as it would be, if we get 3 points on Saturday, i'd let them both go straight after the game and put Sid in charge for the last two games.
While a clean break has some appeal, sacking a bloke while he is off sick would be a pretty shit thing to do. Clearly some big decisions need to be made this summer but it can wait a month.
Quite right Chris it is a very shitty thing to do, nearly as bad as running away from a club as the season starts but these things happen.
However, sometimes they need doing in, of course, the most sympathetic way possible. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made for the overall good, and starting a fresh with plenty of time to do so is what we need above anything else, now.
That you think a bloke walking out of his job after a row is worse than sacking a seriously ill man says more about you than it does about those concerned.
I expect Randy to show his customary integrity in how he deals with this situation.
-
best way to do it is to give houllier a job upstairs...
he can carry on his scouting network overhaul and academy input malarky, and i think he could still be useful doing that, he gets to stay in football without being sacked, we dont look like cocks for sacking a sick man, and we get a new manager and everyone saves face...
That is what I expect to see happen, but all parties would also save face by Gezza resigning due to medical grounds and being given a nice little settlement by Randy.
-
The problem is this , if Houllier is given the all clear and resumes his duties then, in say October his problem reaccurs we are really left with
looking for a new manager when all the decent options have already commited themselves.
-
All the theories about using this as an excuse to make a clean break so everyone can save face assume Randy secretly wants to start again with new management, which I don't think is true.
-
I dont think its a matter of saving face, more that Randy's hand will be forced regardless as Houllier is unlikely to be well enough to physically do the job and McAllister is not up to it in any regard and will not be considered.
A new man coming in is inevitable as far as I'm concerned. May as well give him as much time as possible and hopefully with Houllier's help, if he has a mind for it.
-
The problem is this , if Houllier is given the all clear and resumes his duties then, in say October his problem reaccurs we are really left with
looking for a new manager when all the decent options have already commited themselves.
Then we should get a competent assistant in. Possibly someone with a long term chance of getting the top job.
-
What's annoyed me about GH and GMac is that just as you thik they're starting to make some kind of progress, they always make an almighty fuck up. Man City in the cup was the main one and Saturday's bizarre sub was another. Personally, as harsh as it would be, if we get 3 points on Saturday, i'd let them both go straight after the game and put Sid in charge for the last two games.
While a clean break has some appeal, sacking a bloke while he is off sick would be a pretty shit thing to do. Clearly some big decisions need to be made this summer but it can wait a month.
Quite right Chris it is a very shitty thing to do, nearly as bad as running away from a club as the season starts but these things happen.
However, sometimes they need doing in, of course, the most sympathetic way possible. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made for the overall good, and starting a fresh with plenty of time to do so is what we need above anything else, now.
That you think a bloke walking out of his job after a row is worse than sacking a seriously ill man says more about you than it does about those concerned.
I expect Randy to show his customary integrity in how he deals with this situation.
After a row? That's a new one for me, not that it matters now.
The problem is we are in limbo. Nobody knows what's going to happen regarding the manager, so many senior players are due to leave/expected to leave/need replacing. What we really need but won't get until the summer is some stability. Even then, if a new manager is brought in, how will he make an assessment of the squad's strength, who to let go, who to bring in, who's contract to renew? The easiest transition would be somebody like Moyes with GH moving upstairs, if only for a year, assuming Moyes and GH do have a good relationship. That way GH can pass on all his 'insider' knowledge and list of potential transfer targets without having another wasted season. And let's face it, for various reasons, this season has been a complete waste.
-
The uncertainty isn't ideal but if we do know for definite by mid June then that's good enough for me.
-
The problem is this , if Houllier is given the all clear and resumes his duties then, in say October his problem reaccurs we are really left with
looking for a new manager when all the decent options have already commited themselves.
Then we should get a competent assistant in. Possibly someone with a long term chance of getting the top job.
That's a nice idea in theory, but I can't think of too many teams where you'd expect to see the no.2 taking over if the main man left.
-
Personally, as harsh as it would be, if we get 3 points on Saturday, i'd let them both go straight after the game and put Sid in charge for the last two games.
I don't really see the point in that, to be honest.
Barring a miracle, we are not going to be relegated, so there's not much reason to change the management team for the last two games of the season.
It would also cloud the issue of the permanent succession if we were to have a caretaker in charge.
-
The problem is this , if Houllier is given the all clear and resumes his duties then, in say October his problem reaccurs we are really left with
looking for a new manager when all the decent options have already commited themselves.
Then we should get a competent assistant in. Possibly someone with a long term chance of getting the top job.
http://tinyurl.com/3trhxnn (http://tinyurl.com/3trhxnn)
-
The problem is this , if Houllier is given the all clear and resumes his duties then, in say October his problem reaccurs we are really left with
looking for a new manager when all the decent options have already commited themselves.
Then we should get a competent assistant in. Possibly someone with a long term chance of getting the top job.
http://tinyurl.com/3trhxnn (http://tinyurl.com/3trhxnn)
Oh god, the age old "suggest a good former player as a coach" argument. Laursen has said that's happy with TV media duties as it allow him to spend time with his family. Even if changed his mind, there's no evidence to date that suggests he'd be any good at it.
-
At the very best we'll be mid-table under Houllier. I'm sure of that. He's wrong for this club, not to mention long past his sell by date. We're safe now anyway, but lets not kid ourselves, it's been piss-poor.
As for these 5 games unbeaten, who did we play? We picked up points that given our quality we most certainly should be doing. Furthermore we should be beating the likes of Stoke and West Brom. In fact our two wins were a tight win against Newcastle, who we should be turning over on our patch, and a piss poor West Ham. We made hard work of those narrow, narrow victories. The Everton point was good, granted. But this season, with a few exceptions, we've not given a decent account of ourselves against top 6 sides, nor really turned anyone over.
Scored too few, conceded far too many. The tactics aint right, the organisation isn't there, and STILL some players don't look interested. Many who bust a gut and would throw themselves in front of a train for MON, just don't for Houllier.
Fuck him off, get some passion and youth in. And someone with a gameplan and the ability to organise and fire off a few rockets up a few backsides.
-
The problem is this , if Houllier is given the all clear and resumes his duties then, in say October his problem reaccurs we are really left with
looking for a new manager when all the decent options have already commited themselves.
Then we should get a competent assistant in. Possibly someone with a long term chance of getting the top job.
http://tinyurl.com/3trhxnn (http://tinyurl.com/3trhxnn)
Oh god, the age old "suggest a good former player as a coach" argument. Laursen has said that's happy with TV media duties as it allow him to spend time with his family. Even if changed his mind, there's no evidence to date that suggests he'd be any good at it.
http://tinyurl.com/6d6sg9c (http://tinyurl.com/6d6sg9c)
tee-hee
(Sorry Risso)
-
Personally, as harsh as it would be, if we get 3 points on Saturday, i'd let them both go straight after the game and put Sid in charge for the last two games.
I don't really see the point in that, to be honest.
Barring a miracle, we are not going to be relegated, so there's not much reason to change the management team for the last two games of the season.
It would also cloud the issue of the permanent succession if we were to have a caretaker in charge.
On reflection, maybe you're right Paulie, but i hope even if we get the win we need at the weekend, Randy will have already made his mind up to look elsewhere for next season.
-
The problem is this , if Houllier is given the all clear and resumes his duties then, in say October his problem reaccurs we are really left with
looking for a new manager when all the decent options have already commited themselves.
Then we should get a competent assistant in. Possibly someone with a long term chance of getting the top job.
http://tinyurl.com/3trhxnn (http://tinyurl.com/3trhxnn)
Oh god, the age old "suggest a good former player as a coach" argument. Laursen has said that's happy with TV media duties as it allow him to spend time with his family. Even if changed his mind, there's no evidence to date that suggests he'd be any good at it.
Exactly. Our current assistant was a very good player too.
-
The thing that gets me in this is the effect Houllier's illness has had. Flash back to the game before that and we had started to pick up and were getting points. People were much more positive about Houllier due to that run as we were all but safe.
I really do think had his illness not happened we might have beat Stoke and West Brom and would probably not be calling for him to be sacked.
-
What's annoyed me about GH and GMac is that just as you thik they're starting to make some kind of progress, they always make an almighty fuck up. Man City in the cup was the main one and Saturday's bizarre sub was another. Personally, as harsh as it would be, if we get 3 points on Saturday, i'd let them both go straight after the game and put Sid in charge for the last two games.
While a clean break has some appeal, sacking a bloke while he is off sick would be a pretty shit thing to do. Clearly some big decisions need to be made this summer but it can wait a month.
Agreed.
I hope Houllier sticks around in some capacity (although realistically I cant see it being as manager) but any new manager is going to have his work cut out for him to put it mildly.
We seem to be sounding out targets already, nice and early, as Houllier is known to do. A new manager needs to give them his seal of approval and set his own targets. We could do with all the turmoil this summer will naturally bring whatever happens to be sorted by end of June at the latest so that we have a genuine chance to send a settled, reinvigorated and prepared squad into the new season and challenging back where we belong again.
Houllier in some low key, less stressful role might have it's benefits. And it could well be that if we're a long way down the track re that free transfer for the bloke from Lorient (and other similar deals) a new manager might welcome the kind of knowledge and input that can secure those kind of purchases.
Ultimately though, most managers worth their salt will want to make their own decisions in that regard. It's their head on the chopping block after all. Even seemingly cheap deals like that one (and the earlier touted move for Fofana) will tie up resources vis a vis the wage bill and so on.
For that reason, I probably wouldn't want to see us action any of those moves until we have the new bloke on board, if that even occurs.
-
Fofana only failed to go through due to his injury issues by the way.
-
The problem is this , if Houllier is given the all clear and resumes his duties then, in say October his problem reaccurs we are really left with
looking for a new manager when all the decent options have already commited themselves.
Then we should get a competent assistant in. Possibly someone with a long term chance of getting the top job.
That's a nice idea in theory, but I can't think of too many teams where you'd expect to see the no.2 taking over if the main man left.
CoughTonyBartoncough!!
-
I would like to see Randy, Gerard and Sir Graham get together and appoint the manager to work with Gerard (as DOF) and set up proper policy for Aston Villa to play a system all the way like Barcelona or Ajax.
-
For me:-
If Houllier is fit to continue, I have no issue with giving him another season. I have never known a manager have so many issues and such bad luck in one season. Yes, i know he has made mistakes - Pool and Man City being the main ones, but some of the luck has been ridiculous - remember , at one point we had to play a back line of Lichaj, Clark, Herd (and another).
It's been poor, but Houllier has done enough for me to say - give another year - for 4 years we cried out "We need a Right Back, we need a goalscorer, we need a creative midfielder" - well it took him 6 weeks to work out what the other manager couldn't see in 4 years - he got Walker, he got Bent and he got Makoun (although jury still out on that one). So I say, lets see if he fixes the other issues and see where we are then.
However, if he is not 100%v fit - sorry, gotta go, we cannot be sentimental.
McAllister - now thats another matter, I have never got what he brings to the club, and now he is in control - well 1 point in 6 says it all really doesn't it.
-
The thing that gets me in this is the effect Houllier's illness has had. Flash back to the game before that and we had started to pick up and were getting points. People were much more positive about Houllier due to that run as we were all but safe.
I really do think had his illness not happened we might have beat Stoke and West Brom and would probably not be calling for him to be sacked.
Regardless of results, a man who has had a second dissected aorta should not be under the pressure of Premier League management.
-
I would like to see Randy, Gerard and Sir Graham get together and appoint the manager to work with Gerard (as DOF) and set up proper policy for Aston Villa to play a system all the way like Barcelona or Ajax.
Randy asked GT in September who suggested Houllier as director of football with Kevin MacDonald as head coach, having been ignored once I can't see Graham offering his advice again.
-
I would take this
Houllier being moved upstairs to basically do for Villa what he was doing for France - setting up European academies, setting up scouting networks, recommending players , doing the contract negotiations etc...
Then go and get either Martin Jol - or a manager of a similar style and standing who can / has and will work in this system. Jol did it at Spurs, Ajax and would jump at the chance of coming here.
But if not him, there are dozens in the same ilk.
Funny thing is, I was laughed off a board last year when I said we should attempt to get Marcello Lippi (I was took the pee out of big style) - according to all reports he is being lined up for QPR now !!!
McDonald though - no, sorry. I think people forget how bad some of it was under K Mac - Newcastle 6-0 , Stoke - the entire Villa end singing "you dont know what you're doing" when everyone could see we needed to put NRC on to see the game out, he didn't and we lost.
Time is clouding peoples memory on that one
-
KMac is most definitely not the answer, I think that's safe to say. We someone who is going to get respect from the players, be it by their success as a Manager or their ability to motivate/scare the shit out of them. Sadly KMac, as good a coach as he is, won't do that. The more I think about it, I'd be happy with Ged getting a gig as Head of scouting or similar and Paul Lambert come in.
-
The thing that gets me in this is the effect Houllier's illness has had. Flash back to the game before that and we had started to pick up and were getting points. People were much more positive about Houllier due to that run as we were all but safe.
I really do think had his illness not happened we might have beat Stoke and West Brom and would probably not be calling for him to be sacked.
Regardless of results, a man who has had a second dissected aorta should not be under the pressure of Premier League management.
VD is spot on with this.
It defies all reasoning for him to carry on.
Remember that he's carrying this problem at the age of 63.
-
The thing that gets me in this is the effect Houllier's illness has had. Flash back to the game before that and we had started to pick up and were getting points. People were much more positive about Houllier due to that run as we were all but safe.
I really do think had his illness not happened we might have beat Stoke and West Brom and would probably not be calling for him to be sacked.
Regardless of results, a man who has had a second dissected aorta should not be under the pressure of Premier League management.
VD is spot on with this.
It defies all reasoning for him to carry on.
Remember that he's carrying this problem at the age of 63.
I didn't think his problem had anything to do with stress though. Just something that could happen to him at anytime.
I'm not a doctor, as you might have guessed.
-
The thing that gets me in this is the effect Houllier's illness has had. Flash back to the game before that and we had started to pick up and were getting points. People were much more positive about Houllier due to that run as we were all but safe.
I really do think had his illness not happened we might have beat Stoke and West Brom and would probably not be calling for him to be sacked.
Regardless of results, a man who has had a second dissected aorta should not be under the pressure of Premier League management.
VD is spot on with this.
It defies all reasoning for him to carry on.
Remember that he's carrying this problem at the age of 63.
I didn't think his problem had anything to do with stress though. Just something that could happen to him at anytime.
I'm not a doctor, as you might have guessed.
Hypertension is the main cause of a dissected aorta. Stress = hypertension
-
Randy asked GT in September who suggested Houllier as director of football with Kevin MacDonald as head coach, having been ignored once I can't see Graham offering his advice again.
I wouldn't say GT's advice was totally ignored. We did appoint Houllier as manager, and KMac was offered - by Houllier - the position of assistant manager, only for KMac to decline. So Randy actually followed Sir Graham's advice more or less exactly, in terms of structure.
For what it's worth, I can't see Houllier continuing. And that would obviously put McAllister's future in jeopardy.
-
Randy asked GT in September who suggested Houllier as director of football with Kevin MacDonald as head coach, having been ignored once I can't see Graham offering his advice again.
I wouldn't say GT's advice was totally ignored. We did appoint Houllier as manager, and KMac was offered - by Houllier - the position of assistant manager, only for KMac to decline. So Randy actually followed Sir Graham's advice more or less exactly, in terms of structure.
This is correct.
In addition, it is worth recalling that GH expressed his disappointment that KM did not take the gig by saying that he would have liked to hand over to his assistant once he had put his plans in place.
All academic now, I suppose.
-
Bounty's have dissected coconut in them.
-
Bounty's have dissected coconut in them.
Fair play to them.
-
What's annoyed me about GH and GMac is that just as you thik they're starting to make some kind of progress, they always make an almighty fuck up. Man City in the cup was the main one and Saturday's bizarre sub was another. Personally, as harsh as it would be, if we get 3 points on Saturday, i'd let them both go straight after the game and put Sid in charge for the last two games.
I'd see a good reason to offload GMac after the win on Saturday (which is by no means a certainty) and keep GH on until it's clear where he's at.
-
Randy asked GT in September who suggested Houllier as director of football with Kevin MacDonald as head coach, having been ignored once I can't see Graham offering his advice again.
I wouldn't say GT's advice was totally ignored. We did appoint Houllier as manager, and KMac was offered - by Houllier - the position of assistant manager, only for KMac to decline. So Randy actually followed Sir Graham's advice more or less exactly, in terms of structure.
For what it's worth, I can't see Houllier continuing. And that would obviously put McAllister's future in jeopardy.
I suppose the difference is the role a Director of Football has compared to a manager.
If Houllier leaves in the summer, Gary Mac would go with him and Sid's role may change or disappear, plus the goalie coach, what Graham was proposing was that the D of F oversaw everything, and then if there was a change in the Head Coach it wouldn't leave the carnage we had when O'Neill left taking all his staff with him, if Houllier and his team leave in the summer we would have to start again.
In the current set up Houllier is answerable to everything on the football side, whereas the D of F is almost a job for life and the Head Coach is responsible for the results on the pitch, the only major upheaval you have then is if you decide the D of F is not up to scratch.
-
Bounty's have dissected coconut in them.
I absolutely love Bounty's. Do they still make Bounty ice cream bars back home? Don't get them here. Bastard Canadian government.
-
Bounty's have dissected coconut in them.
I absolutely love Bounty's. Do they still make Bounty ice cream bars back home? Don't get them here. Bastard Canadian government.
Still do 'em.
I'd happily kill for a dark chocolate Bounty.
-
The thing that gets me in this is the effect Houllier's illness has had. Flash back to the game before that and we had started to pick up and were getting points. People were much more positive about Houllier due to that run as we were all but safe.
I really do think had his illness not happened we might have beat Stoke and West Brom and would probably not be calling for him to be sacked.
Regardless of results, a man who has had a second dissected aorta should not be under the pressure of Premier League management.
VD is spot on with this.
It defies all reasoning for him to carry on.
Remember that he's carrying this problem at the age of 63.
I didn't think his problem had anything to do with stress though. Just something that could happen to him at anytime.
I'm not a doctor, as you might have guessed.
Hypertension is the main cause of a dissected aorta. Stress = hypertension
Besides the two times his condition has been aggravated is when he's been in charge of a premier league team, you can't ignore that correlation.
-
Bounty's have dissected coconut in them.
I absolutely love Bounty's. Do they still make Bounty ice cream bars back home? Don't get them here. Bastard Canadian government.
Still do 'em.
I'd happily kill for a dark chocolate Bounty.
yep, let no man, woman, child or beast stand between me and a Bounty. I'll be making a trip home in a couple of weeks. Let it be known to all, that the stock of Bounty ice cream bars in the UK will be depleted.
That is all.
-
I've just stuck you one in the post aswell.
-
I suppose the difference is the role a Director of Football has compared to a manager.
If Houllier leaves in the summer, Gary Mac would go with him and Sid's role may change or disappear, plus the goalie coach, what Graham was proposing was that the D of F oversaw everything, and then if there was a change in the Head Coach it wouldn't leave the carnage we had when O'Neill left taking all his staff with him, if Houllier and his team leave in the summer we would have to start again.
In the current set up Houllier is answerable to everything on the football side, whereas the D of F is almost a job for life and the Head Coach is responsible for the results on the pitch, the only major upheaval you have then is if you decide the D of F is not up to scratch.
Oh yes, I realise that. I just meant that the board seemed to have listened 100% to GT in terms of the personnel involved.
In terms of limiting upheaval, etc, I'm not so sure this applies. If the head coach is duff and the results are poor, he's out; then we're left recruiting for a new Head Coach who probably won't be a proven PL or top-class manager because he won't want to work under a DoF. For me, the DoF has to come under some sort of scrutiny at some stage - I don't see it being a job for life, by any means, and I can't think of too many examples where a DoF has been successfully in place for any length of time at a club.
It's a tough one. Even if GH now moves into more of a DoF role, we can't have Gary Mac as Head Coach or manager, so we still need to find a new manager/Head Coach. Not to mention the financial burden of paying a DoF AND a first team manager/Head Coach.
What's clear is that some poor choices have been made. It's all getting a bit messy. We could kind of have the right sort of structure in place if GH's role is altered, but we still need that manager type. I don't think Kevin Mac would have been right, and Gary Mac definitely isn't.
-
Bounty's have dissected coconut in them.
I absolutely love Bounty's. Do they still make Bounty ice cream bars back home? Don't get them here. Bastard Canadian government.
That intrigued me, so I've just spent five dull minutes reading about Canadia's trade restriction on imports of ice-cream. Fascinating stuff. The fascists in Toronto also banned the use of mayonnaise on the various hot dog stalls around Toronto if my memory serves me well.
-
The Bounty Hunters, they came in search of Paradise...
-
Oh yes, I realise that. I just meant that the board seemed to have listened 100% to GT in terms of the personnel involved.
What's clear is that some poor choices have been made. It's all getting a bit messy. We could kind of have the right sort of structure in place if GH's role is altered, but we still need that manager type. I don't think Kevin Mac would have been right, and Gary Mac definitely isn't.
I think appointing GH as manager instead of D of F is like buying Kyle Walker and playing him left back, right person, wrong position.
Personally I'd get rid of Houllier and McAllister and start afresh, as it's clear to me that neither of them are up to the job, and more importanly they just "don't get Villa".
Appointing the right person in the first place is obviously the key, whether we've got the people at the club to do that is debateable.
We need to be ruthless and make an early decision, I certainly trust RL to do it with a bit of class as he has done in the last 5 years.
-
Oh yes, I realise that. I just meant that the board seemed to have listened 100% to GT in terms of the personnel involved.
What's clear is that some poor choices have been made. It's all getting a bit messy. We could kind of have the right sort of structure in place if GH's role is altered, but we still need that manager type. I don't think Kevin Mac would have been right, and Gary Mac definitely isn't.
I think appointing GH as manager instead of D of F is like buying Kyle Walker and playing him left back, right person, wrong position.
Personally I'd get rid of Houllier and McAllister and start afresh, as it's clear to me that neither of them are up to the job, and more importanly they just "don't get Villa".
Appointing the right person in the first place is obviously the key, whether we've got the people at the club to do that is debateable.
We need to be ruthless and make an early decision, I certainly trust RL to do it with a bit of class as he has done in the last 5 years.
He just needs to make the right decision. Making classy wrong decisions is not what we need.
-
My biggest concern is going for people who are out of work only. Firstly, it limits your options and secondly, there may be a very valid reason why they're not presently employed.
-
Just read those three last posts - Bosco, Risso, John - and found myself nodding to all of them.
-
The Bounty Hunters, they came in search of Paradise...
Thought they were after Han Solo.....
-
My biggest concern is going for people who are out of work only. Firstly, it limits your options and secondly, there may be a very valid reason why they're not presently employed.
That is the downside with Randy and his moral compass, perhaps we can get Doug back as recruitment consultant, couldn't stand the bloke but he knew who he wanted and by and large got his man, certainly in the cases of BFR and Brian Little.
-
Bounty's have dissected coconut in them.
I absolutely love Bounty's. Do they still make Bounty ice cream bars back home? Don't get them here. Bastard Canadian government.
That intrigued me, so I've just spent five dull minutes reading about Canadia's trade restriction on imports of ice-cream. Fascinating stuff. The fascists in Toronto also banned the use of mayonnaise on the various hot dog stalls around Toronto if my memory serves me well.
I haven't purchased a hot dog from a street vendor in a good while. Not since the Toronto Indy Car event I attended in 1999 that didn't end well. We should leave it at that. Not sure on the mayo thing, but you've convinced me to go check now. I will report back sir in a timely manner.
As for the ice cream thing. Firstly, let me state for the record that I love ice cream in any format. But Bounty and Snickers (are they still called Marathon at home?) are my favourite with Mars coming a close 3rd. If any ice cream connoisseurs could advise of anything new and exciting on that front it would be appreciated.
-
I've just stuck you one in the post aswell.
Nice one. I'll take what I can get. It's still cold here so it might survive the journey ;)
-
Although those out of work include van Gaal and Muttley.
Not too shabby. Maybe we should just open a desk at a Dutch job centre.
-
I've just stuck you one in the post aswell.
Ooh you're bold!
-
I just want a new manager in who says something like 'It smells all wrong, like it is really on the way down'
-
I just want a new manager in who says something like 'It smells all wrong, like it is really on the way down'
Something you might say when you pick up the post and realise someone's sent you a Bounty Bar Ice Cream.
-
Bounty's have dissected coconut in them.
I absolutely love Bounty's. Do they still make Bounty ice cream bars back home? Don't get them here. Bastard Canadian government.
That intrigued me, so I've just spent five dull minutes reading about Canadia's trade restriction on imports of ice-cream. Fascinating stuff. The fascists in Toronto also banned the use of mayonnaise on the various hot dog stalls around Toronto if my memory serves me well.
I haven't purchased a hot dog from a street vendor in a good while. Not since the Toronto Indy Car event I attended in 1999 that didn't end well. We should leave it at that. Not sure on the mayo thing, but you've convinced me to go check now. I will report back sir in a timely manner.
As for the ice cream thing. Firstly, let me state for the record that I love ice cream in any format. But Bounty and Snickers (are they still called Marathon at home?) are my favourite with Mars coming a close 3rd. If any ice cream connoisseurs could advise of anything new and exciting on that front it would be appreciated.
No, Snickers here as well I'm sad to report, although most people I know of a certain age still refer to Marathons and Opal Fruits.
-
I did hear they were changing Snickers back to Marathon just recently, but it doesn't appear to have happened.
-
Apparently, Canadians eat more Doughnuts than Americans.
Fascinating...
-
"Youve always got time for Tim Hortons" as the jingle used to go when I lived out there for a year. Tim Horton was a donut chain through Canada, I think named after a Hockey star. Maybe we will "always have time for a Dunne Pie"
-
Always get a free tray of Tim Hortons every time we leave Calgary, a bit sticky!
-
Tim's is still here and growing stronger, and Tim Horton was a hockey star who played for Toronto and they make great donuts!
-
Apparently, Canadians eat more Doughnuts than Americans.
Fascinating...
Do Canadians eat many Americans then?
Someone had to say it and it might as wel be me.
-
Apparently, Canadians eat more Doughnuts than Americans.
Fascinating...
Do Canadians eat many Americans then?
Someone had to say it and it might as wel be me.
very good. Notice how most people ignored it, but someone has to be the little boy in the crowd - right? Only kidding Dave.
As for Tim Horton's, they are bloody everywhere. Yep, he was a hockey player who opened up a chain of coffee and doughnut shops. Not particulraly good coffee, but very, very popular nonetheless. Everyone you ever go to is jammed. His wife's a bit bitter though. She sold the Tim Horton's franchise to Tim's partner Ron Joyce in 1974 following her husbands untimely death for a snip at $1 million. Following a very aggressive expansion and marketing plan, the franchise is now worth an estimated $2.75 billion.
-
Thanks for the Tim's story, I didn't know that... i've never drunk coffee but I head to Tims when roll up is on but only won the once this year.
-
A bounty is also my favorite "candy" - I have friends/relatives bring them over whenever I can along with those huge boxes of PG tips. Somethings you just can't live without!
-
Worked in the States for three years and vowed never again to live in a Country that does not have Marmite, HP Sauce and PG Tips.
-
Go get Paul lambert
-
Heard a rumour today that Andy Gray wants thẹ Villa job.
-
Heard a rumour today that Andy Gray wants thẹ Villa job.
So do I
-
From the Trinity Middle today I counted that Gary Macallister got through more bottles of water than he gave out meaniful instructions. Fact!
-
Andy Gray? Not a chance would he get anywhere near it. Although the salary at Talkshite must be a paltry sum compared to Sky.
However, as a number 2, I would take Trevor Francis over Gary Mac. Nice bloke, tough last few year, great player, but he is a coach at best, not a number 2, and sure as hell not a number 1. We were bloody awful, again, today.
-
I am 50 50 with Houllier , I think he hasnt helped himself but he has had to put up with some unbelievable stuff this year through no fault of his own.
However, McAlliser, I dont want him near Villa Park come August.
I understand Houllier wanted Phil Thompson and Keve=in McDonald prior to McAllister and after those two turned it down, he had to get someone - but it clearly hasnt worked and never will
Personally I'd put Houllier upstairs and go get Martin Jol and Chris Hughton (or maybe Ray Wilkins) but whatever, I dont want McAllister whoever comes or stays !
-
Trevor Bloody Francis? Beelzebub himself? *Takes a very large swig of red wine.*
-
Agree with you Paul. I think GH would make a great DoF for someone like Chris Hughton who is a good coach. GH could also have the job to move our academy forward ala Clairefontaine.
-
Roberto Martínez... anyone ?
-
GH Director of Football, what nonsense, where has this worked when the manager has gone upstairs? Giving a bloke another job because he cant do the one you employed him for is plain stupid and it dosent work. Why restrict your selves to managers that want to work with GH?
The Board should act as soon as the final whistle goes, I would hope they are casting the net out allready. Its time to move on.
-
I am absolutely fed up of people suggesting that GH gets 'promoted' to DoF. It just reminds me of people at work who are shit at their jobs so they get promoted into management jobs as they can't do their original jobs properly.
Wipe the slate clean and move on!
-
I am absolutely fed up of people suggesting that GH gets 'promoted' to DoF. It just reminds me of people at work who are shit at their jobs so they get promoted into management jobs as they can't do their original jobs properly.
Wipe the slate clean and move on!
Most clubs have it.
Chelsea have it - Liverpool have it , virtually all continental clubs have it - what more evidence do you want.
It may be called something else - I think Camolli is "technical director" but most clubs have it.
In fact Villa were one of the only ones who didnt have this type of set up. Martin ONeill ran all football matters, transfers, contracts -everything.
Who does the deals at Spurs - I think you will find it is Levy !
-
The end of the season and the sacking of Houllier and everybody associated with him can't come soon enough. Bleedin' awful again today.
-
I've been a supporter of keeping GH troughtout the season, because I think he's a decent manager. Also, I believe his long-term vision (better training, stricter regime, better attitudes, talent development and better scouting) is a better (and more sustainable) road to success than MON's "let's keep spending till we get there".
A lot of the troubles have been caused by things that weren't his making: skeleton's in the cupboard left behind by the previous management (shocking attitude among players, barely any pre-season training etc); no time to assemble a decent coaching team (remember Gary Mac was fourth choice as assistant); the longest injury list in living memory, and so on.
I think there is a good chance that GH will do better next season if his health and the board allow him to carry on. But one of the major disappointments this season is that whenever we have seemed to take a step forward, we have immeadiately proceeded by taking one step back.
However, in the end, it's about results; they have been shocking, and that's the manager's responsibility. When the season ends, we'll need to find a new manager.
-
Not only is the DOF option bollox from a working perspective, but what about financially ?
Are we to pay top dollar to 2 people ?
If (hopefully) we tell Houllier that he needs to call it a day, then we should make a clean break.
Its harsh, but we don't owe him anything.
-
I think Houllier should be retained at the club in a technical role IMO. The club have suffered from having no football voice in the board room. He would give a very credible steer in that respect.
Managers would still come and work with him, as long as they had a say in transfers and were involved in that aspect.
Gary Mac cannot be assistant though, whoever is number 2.
-
I think Houllier should be retained at the club in a technical role IMO. The club have suffered from having no football voice in the board room. He would give a very credible steer in that respect.
Managers would still come and work with him, as long as they had a say in transfers and were involved in that aspect.
I'm not sure i'd like it too much if we had a manager who did'nt have a final say on who we brought in, it's a road i would'nt like us to go down.
-
Depends which way we went when seeking a new Manager but I know the type of Manager i'd like, Jol, Moyes, Hiddink, Van Gaal most probably wouldn't want GH upstairs.
The likes of Houghton, Lambert, Coyle might.
So I hope it's not an option.
-
I dont think people are thinking the GH DOF thing through.
What about the players that GH has issues with, the new man may want need to keep some on board , who is setting out the way we play? GH has firm ideas on this so the new man has to go along with this? Wont this determine the players we buy, keep,loan?
If GH had established a successfull club and structure it might be different. He hasnt though. Moving GH to DOF would immediately create conflict with the new bloke unless we want to hire a yes man.
-
I want a new Manager. Houllier can go upstairs, I have no problem with that, but let a proper management team come in and call the shots with the coaching, buying players etc. We are a joke club at the moment with a chief clown in charge in McAllister. Every time he opns his mouth, he talks rubbish.
-
I dont think people are thinking the GH DOF thing through.
What about the players that GH has issues with, the new man may want need to keep some on board , who is setting out the way we play? GH has firm ideas on this so the new man has to go along with this? Wont this determine the players we buy, keep,loan?
If GH had established a successfull club and structure it might be different. He hasnt though. Moving GH to DOF would immediately create conflict with the new bloke unless we want to hire a yes man.
I think you are getting the role totally wrong though. I would advocate Houllier had a say in suggesting players etc, but the final call is the managers. However, setting up the infrastructure of the club, the scouting down to the very youngest level, the negotiating etc, could be handled by a guy in a technical director roll. Something Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea and most clubs abroad are already running.
-
What has GH done at Villa to sugest that we should be creating a role for him? nothing.
The issue is he is the Manager and it hasnt worked so lets create a new job for him. So its now technical director. I do not have an issue with the idea of Technical Director or Director of Football. I have a problem with changing the structure of the club because the bloke cant handle the job we emplyed him for. You recruit the person for the job not create the job for the person. This is just basic business sense.
-
I dont think people are thinking the GH DOF thing through.
What about the players that GH has issues with, the new man may want need to keep some on board , who is setting out the way we play? GH has firm ideas on this so the new man has to go along with this? Wont this determine the players we buy, keep,loan?
If GH had established a successfull club and structure it might be different. He hasnt though. Moving GH to DOF would immediately create conflict with the new bloke unless we want to hire a yes man.
I think you are getting the role totally wrong though. I would advocate Houllier had a say in suggesting players etc, but the final call is the managers. However, setting up the infrastructure of the club, the scouting down to the very youngest level, the negotiating etc, could be handled by a guy in a technical director roll. Something Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea and most clubs abroad are already running.
Who are the technical directors at Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea?
-
Comoli/Dalglish, Levy, Arnesen (or did he recently leave).
-
It looks like Blanc is about to quit as the manger of France. One of Europe's best young(ish) managers. I'd double check what his involvement is with this whole quota thing but assuming his words have been misconstrued then he could be our man.
The is a good chance that he would be in favour of the signings that Houllier has lined up too.
-
Comoli/Dalglish, Levy, Arnesen (or did he recently leave).
Comolihandles player acquisitions at Liverpool. Levy is the Spurs chairman.
-
Comoli/Dalglish, Levy, Arnesen (or did he recently leave).
Comolihandles player acquisitions at Liverpool. Levy is the Spurs chairman.
And I think Arnesen is a talent scout.
-
Comoli/Dalglish, Levy, Arnesen (or did he recently leave).
Comolihandles player acquisitions at Liverpool. Levy is the Spurs chairman.
And I think Arnesen is a talent scout.
You're right, certainly about Levy but both Comoli and Arnesen were at spurs at some point so they do/have used the system. Regardless they all perform functions that a Technical Director / DoF could perform at Villa.
As far as I am aware these things are currently (largely) the responsibility of the Manger. Add in the fact that our Head Scout has also left and I personally think that there is a need for someone at villa with some footballing experience to be at Director level, be that Houllier or someone else.
-
GH has set up the backroom team, that has oversaw a total shambles of a season, this includes a Villa legend as a player, but unproven as a coach of men, not boys. A guy who was not suitable for the number 1 job, and a nob of a failure, who has now shown even more failures as a number 1 than he did as a number 2.
GMc has no health issues, from what we have seen of his man management,tactics and general know how, the team will be no more of a shambles that what they are now, if the physio takes over for the remaining 2 games.
GH as soon as the season is over, thanks but no thanks, GMc clears his locker this morning and maybe this will also send a message from the board, that the 5 year plan, did not have a zero mising from it, when it was first revealed.
No one in a senior position at Villa should walk away from this season, without having a long hard look if they are in the right business, that includes the Chairman and the board, because the waster that started all this last August, was at the end of the day given permission by those above him.
-
GH deserves sweet FA and should not be moved upstairs. I want him gone asap and take his clown with him. It has been a cursed season.
-
I think Houllier should be retained at the club in a technical role IMO.
I don't.
He's stunk the club out with his football this season, he needs to go and we need to start afresh.
-
It is hard to see a man who was responsible for the embarrassing Man City debacle becoming some kind of football overlord at the club
A new manager is not going to want someone as high profile as GH above him, amd I don't think we should be doing anything to make it harder than necessary to find the best man we can
-
I think Houllier should be retained at the club in a technical role IMO.
I don't.
He's stunk the club out with his football this season, he needs to go and we need to start afresh.
Agreed. This needs to happen soon please Randy.
-
I think Houllier should be retained at the club in a technical role IMO.
I don't.
He's stunk the club out with his football this season, he needs to go and we need to start afresh.
Agreed. This needs to happen soon please Randy.
I'm going along with this too. A clean sweep is what's needed. We've had to suffer too much shit, to much embarrassment, to many bad decisions or no decisions. The whole season was summed up in that 90 mins yesterday. Just dreadful.
-
Watching Goals On Sunday has left me feeling that I wouldn't mind at all if Steve McLaren was appointed as our manager.
It's come as quite a surprise to me, actually.
-
I'm 100% for a clean break and a new broom, but Steve McClaren? Not for me.
-
McLaren? No thanks.
If we can get him it's Moyes for me. He might fancy a fresh challenge; he's been at Goodison for ages.
-
Martin Jol for me. Very experienced with top clubs and players and someone I think we could realistically attract.
-
Martin Jol for me. Very experienced with top clubs and players and someone I think we could realistically attract.
He's been out of work since leaving Hamburg and so has Chris Houghton who was his No 2 at Spuds. Maybe they both know of a vacancy coming up...........
-
As the Stone Roses once said: 'Cut loose, cause you're no use. I couldn't stand another second in your company.'
Let's hope the replacement can bring about our resurrection.
-
If we can get him it's Moyes for me. He might fancy a fresh challenge; he's been at Goodison for ages.
It summed up yesterday, Everton crap in the first half, Moyes 'pep' talk at half time and they turn Man City over, Villa crap in the first half, McA 'pep' talk at half time and crap in the second half!
-
If we can get him it's Moyes for me. He might fancy a fresh challenge; he's been at Goodison for ages.
It summed up yesterday, Everton crap in the first half, Moyes 'pep' talk at half time and they turn Man City over, Villa crap in the first half, McA 'pep' talk at half time and crap in the second half!
yep, Moyes would soon weed out the pisstakers in our squad, but if we want him we'll have to move quick. I'm praying GH and the club make the decision one way or another by a week after the end of season by the latest. A big big test of RL's leadership and dare i say it, ruthlessness
-
I'm not bothered if Houllier gets a job in a developmental capacity but there needs to be top to bottom changes in the summer so I dont really care who is retained now to be honest.
I've had it up to my tits this season for all sorts of reasons. Not so much winds of change but Hurricane Overhaul is required.
And no, that's not sfx412s snooker nickname.
-
It would appear that Gerard's health will force Randy into a managerial change. I think it will be our most important managerial appointment since Herbert appointed Sir Graham first time around. Randy needs to be decisive and the decision must be made quickly.
-
From the comments in the media I have a truly horrible feeling that they are still going to be hear next season.
:(
-
I have no problem with Houllier staying on, but McAllister can fuck right off.
-
I have no problem with Houllier staying on, but McAllister can fuck right off.
I find it hard to imagine Houllier staying but giving GM the boot. He appointed him, to hoof him out would be an admission of his own failure.
-
From the comments in the media I have a truly horrible feeling that they are still going to be hear next season.
:(
If they are, i can see Nicky Keye being busier than usual making phone calls to people who have'nt re-newed.
-
To be fair most of the comments are coming from G. Mac and what does anyone expect him to say? "I'm on borrowed time and i'm just filling in till the end of the season when GH retires"?
Whaever you think of him it would be unprofessional not to give the appearance of business as normal
-
get rid of em both,fucking useless the pair of em.
SOS STEVE
MCLAREN.
-
He's got to go, the sooner the better. I was thinking earlier that Sunday morning is when I most enjoy reading the transfer thread, but at the moment it's redundant, because we're in limbo. I know that's just us wasters on the internet, but it's true of the club too.
-
I have no problem with Houllier staying on, but McAllister can fuck right off.
Do any of us actually know, with any degree of certainty, that McAlistair is the problem, or has it just been magicked up to allow us to moan without feeling bad about having a go at a poorly man?
-
Ideally he's already given his notice in privately to Randy and the new manager is already being lined up.
-
Ideally he's already given his notice in privately to Randy and the new manager is already being lined up.
I like this scenario. Please let it be true....and Gary Mc out the door also.
-
I have no problem with Houllier staying on, but McAllister can fuck right off.
I don't understand? Why? What's McAllister done that's so drastically wrong that Houllier hasn't?
-
I have no problem with Houllier staying on, but McAllister can fuck right off.
I don't understand? Why? What's McAllister done that's so drastically wrong that Houllier hasn't?
The only answer to this shit season is that they are both banished from B6 and never allowed to return.
-
From the comments in the media I have a truly horrible feeling that they are still going to be hear next season.
:(
Thats nearly as frightening as relegation, i
-
Rumour from a mate over in Italy says Fat Spanish Waiter arrives at VP in two weeks time. He's never been ITK before and I pray to McGrath he isn't this time!!
-
I have no problem with Houllier staying on, but McAllister can fuck right off.
McAllister worried me when he came in. little experience and nothing to suggest he was cut out for the job. Remember an assistant manager is like Nick Clegg and is supposed to jump into the fray when needed. McAllister was out of his depth at Leeds and has reminded me of McDonald at the start of the season. Things didn't feel right with the playing side this season and I'd venture that the managerial staff are primarily to blame for that.
-
Well I see on Sky we have been linked to Holloway, that better not be true.
-
Well I see on Sky we have been linked to Holloway, that better not be true.
Too right. I would never be able to listen to any of his interviews. He drives me crazy.
-
Well I see on Sky we have been linked to Holloway, that better not be true.
Quite right too. Anyway surely he is worth more than "a half-arsed club". We certainly are for a half-arsed manager.
-
Well I see on Sky we have been linked to Holloway, that better not be true.
Too right. I would never be able to listen to any of his interviews. He drives me crazy.
He is a buffoon, and would be an embarrassment and he's not very good.
-
I have no problem with Houllier staying on, but McAllister can fuck right off.
Do any of us actually know, with any degree of certainty, that McAlistair is the problem, or has it just been magicked up to allow us to moan without feeling bad about having a go at a poorly man?
i think you have a point there to be honest and there is no proof that mccallister is the problem other than rumours but i can only say that my gut feeling says i don't want him in charge. illogical and unfair maybe but he makes me uneasy and if he does that to me through a few interviews on the tv and in the papers, then i'm not sure how the players react to him.
-
I have no problem with Houllier staying on, but McAllister can fuck right off.
Do any of us actually know, with any degree of certainty, that McAlistair is the problem, or has it just been magicked up to allow us to moan without feeling bad about having a go at a poorly man?
It was quite evident yesterday, that whilst we were all watching what was going on GMc was pacing the technical area without a chuffin clue on how to change it. I work in Hinckley in amongst the great unwashed of Leicester and Coventry and a Cov fan said GMc would F@*! the squad up.
-
I have no problem with Houllier staying on, but McAllister can fuck right off.
Do any of us actually know, with any degree of certainty, that McAlistair is the problem, or has it just been magicked up to allow us to moan without feeling bad about having a go at a poorly man?
Does the last few games not give you a huge clue about how clueless McAllister actually is? What more proof do you need? He is an idiot. Completely out of his depth. and Poorly or not, Houllier has turned us into relegation candidates in less than 9 months since taking over. He might be ill but how many more excuses do we actually need before the board wake up and realise that Villa are crap to watch? Poorly run etc?
-
I have no problem with Houllier staying on, but McAllister can fuck right off.
Do any of us actually know, with any degree of certainty, that McAlistair is the problem, or has it just been magicked up to allow us to moan without feeling bad about having a go at a poorly man?
It was quite evident yesterday, that whilst we were all watching what was going on GMc was pacing the technical area without a chuffin clue on how to change it. I work in Hinckley in amongst the great unwashed of Leicester and Coventry and a Cov fan said GMc would F@*! the squad up.
I'm not sure that yesterday was materially worse than our average performance this season? Everything still points to GH as the master of our downfall for me.
-
GH and Gmac are the worst double act down VP since Callaghan and Bernie Gallagher.
You need a certain type of authority to motivate and manage multi millionaires and both of these guys are out of their depth.
The players do not seem to respect either of them , they do not fear failure and they play like they hardly know eachother.
Get a horrible bastard in.
-
Rumour from a mate over in Italy says Fat Spanish Waiter arrives at VP in two weeks time. He's never been ITK before and I pray to McGrath he isn't this time!!
A mate of mine text me last night and said that someone had rang in Tawksport and said that FSW is lined up to be our new manager and a statement would be made soon. Let's hope not eh.
-
Rumour from a mate over in Italy says Fat Spanish Waiter arrives at VP in two weeks time. He's never been ITK before and I pray to McGrath he isn't this time!!
A mate of mine text me last night and said that someone had rang in Tawksport and said that FSW is lined up to be our new manager and a statement would be made soon. Let's hope not eh.
Well, it's probably not true, but if it were, I wouldn't mind. It would mean that the board has been decisive, reacted quickly and managed to get a well-qualified manager (thought not necessarily likeable and popular among the fans) in fast enough for him to get to work as soon as the season finishes.
-
A few wins and he'd be popular enough.
-
Spot on. Tactically astute, and gets the best out a lone striker while likes to tighten up the defence. I think he would do a good job.
-
i wouldn't mind Benitez, either. By which I mean, I can think of lots and lots of worse appointments we could make.
Ian Holloway would be a great appointment, too.
If our main aim was to make ourselves a laughing stock and give in to being about as ambitious as the West Broms and Boltons of this world.
-
My concerns with Benitez is his propensity to completely lose it when the pressure really gets high. Towards the end of his time at Liverpool, it was never his fault for anything. Those who criticised GH for some of signings at Liverpool need to look at some of the complete and utter dross he purchased up there. He inherited Liverpool's best player of the past 20 years in Gerrard, but didn't half waste a lot of cash on players to make them a title contender. Also, name one player of note that came through their own developmental system. If the vision of our club is to be somewhat self sufficient, that would need to be integral to what he does, not dismissed as he did up there.
Like GH he has accolades a plenty and has won major prizes in his career and he has purchased some great players. There would be far worse managerial appointments and he'd make us relevant again, but I just don't think he is the type of manager that fits what the club is trying to do at this time.
-
I have to agree.
Well, I dont have to but I do.
-
i just can't see benitez becoming manager if only because of the precious way some of our fans reacted to GH's return to anfield and their reaction to him recalling his time there fondly. First game at Liverpool, FSW would turn up wearing a full liverpool kit and sit in the home dug-out
-
SOS STEVE
MCLAREN.
Jesus Wept...Steve McLaren?
NO Steve McLaren
NO Owen Coyle
NO Paul Lambert
NO NO NO Alan Curbishley
YES Louis Van Gaal
YES Jurgen Klinsmann
YES Claudio Ranieri
YES YES YES Martin Laursen
-
No to Coyle and Lambert and yes to Martin Laursen?
I'm not sure about that.
No to Shteve McLaren though, agreed.
-
Not found this anywhere and not sure whether this is the appropriate thread, but I'll put it here for want of finding anywhere better - quote from Luke Young in the Guardian match report after the Wigan game:
"It's criminal we're not at least eighth with what we've got," said the full-back Luke Young. "We've had a season where we're supposed to be moving on from the last regime and basically we've wasted a year and are no further down the line. We need to know who is going to be in charge next season. Hopefully Gérard [Houllier] is fine and can carry on but no one knows what is going on. It is a bit of a mess."
Aston Villa's season of torment takes its toll on Emile Heskey (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/09/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-premier-league)
by Sachin Nakrani
The Guardian, 09/05/11
Sounds as though the players want the situation resolved, too.
-
Houllier may still do a decent job but only if he changes his backroom team- I don't think Gary mac is up to the job and his record elsewhere suggests that too.
I would however prefer houllier to step upstairs and have a fresh start next season as this has been a truly dreadful season for many reasons.
-
Not found this anywhere and not sure whether this is the appropriate thread, but I'll put it here for want of finding anywhere better - quote from Luke Young in the Guardian match report after the Wigan game:
"It's criminal we're not at least eighth with what we've got," said the full-back Luke Young. "We've had a season where we're supposed to be moving on from the last regime and basically we've wasted a year and are no further down the line. We need to know who is going to be in charge next season. Hopefully Gérard [Houllier] is fine and can carry on but no one knows what is going on. It is a bit of a mess."
Aston Villa's season of torment takes its toll on Emile Heskey (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/09/aston-villa-wigan-athletic-premier-league)
by Sachin Nakrani
The Guardian, 09/05/11
Sounds as though the players want the situation resolved, too.
Crikey, well spotted, not seen that posted before
Indeed that does say it all
-
"It's criminal we're not at least eighth with what we've got," said the full-back Luke Young. "We've had a season where we're supposed to be moving on from the last regime and basically we've wasted a year and are no further down the line. We need to know who is going to be in charge next season. Hopefully Gérard [Houllier] is fine and can carry on but no one knows what is going on. It is a bit of a mess."
I just read that too... I'd say that's a pretty accurate summary of the season.
-
Everytime I see McAllister's name as being in charge of our team I shudder, it is a mess. Even if Ged wanted to carry on next season, his Dr's may advice otherwise. As someone mentioned what happens a few weeks into the season and he's ill again, I don't want to be harsh but we cannot take the risk. Hopefully the board are already tackling this issue and looking for a top replacement... i.e. Moyes.
-
Maybe Luke Young doesn't know what's going on because either way he won't be playing in a Villa kit next season. When you're a part of the triple tag team, also featuring Richard "Pie Pounder" Dunne and "The Red Ringpiece", James Collins, it should be surprised that he's been left in the dark.
-
Maybe Luke Young doesn't know what's going on because either way he won't be playing in a Villa kit next season. When you're a part of the triple tag team, also featuring Richard "Pie Pounder" Dunne and "The Red Ringpiece", James Collins, it should be surprised that he's been left in the dark.
To be honest, it is pretty hard to imagine that some of the players know more about what's going on than others.
-
Maybe Luke Young doesn't know what's going on because either way he won't be playing in a Villa kit next season. When you're a part of the triple tag team, also featuring Richard "Pie Pounder" Dunne and "The Red Ringpiece", James Collins, it should be surprised that he's been left in the dark.
To be honest, it is pretty hard to imagine that some of the players know more about what's going on than others.
I also don't think that the players need to know at this stage. The decision regarding GH is still up in the air, but I can't imagine that behind the scenes the management is just sitting on their hands waiting for something to happen.
It's also hardly as if Luke Young was ever going to come out and say, "Yeh, we've all been told what's going on and we're all happy/unhappy about it". Before you know it it's on Twitter or some other social media, and being spun out of control with anyone with an agenda. It's hard enough to keep a secret these days, so if Villa are doing a decent job of it, like they did when signing Bent, then it might be the best thing.
-
Im not a fan of criticising the management, as its a tough job (managing, not criticising). I do have a lot of time for Houllier, and think he is a man that can take us forward. However. I dont think McAllister cuts it. He doesnt speak like someone with confidence or looks like he can fire up players or make them feel loved. He was clueless on subs at the weekend. Heskey should have been out of the firing line the moment he reacted, and replaced with Gabby. Yet he wasnt even on the subs bench? Petrov got knackered at 60 mins, just the time to get Delph on.... no movement. So for me its Houllier in (hopefully health allowing) McAllister out
-
The players should just get on with it and not play like ******. Or am I thinking in too basic terms?
Imagine going into work and doing a half arsed job and then saying to your customers; "I'm sorry about that, I should be doing a lot better but I'm mooning out of the window wondering what's going to happen next year."
You'd get a round of fucks/sacked and rightly so.
Not that the current situation is helpful of course and yes, it needs to be sorted asap. But how about some fucking effort lads, eh? You earn MILLIONS of pounds a year.
-
Mazrim, you obviously have not had to go to mothercare in crewe, mamas and slappers in Stoke or any outlet of pizzaslut. ALL the staff are like that. True they dont get paid millions. The fact they get paid at all irritates me
-
Of course, the players should just get on with doing their jobs, and if they had done them a bit better, we wouldn't be in this embarassing mess.
The problem is, for whatever reason, that hasn't happened this season. We just have to make sure we salvage the situation over the summer. We're not going to be able to go out and acquire almost an entire new squad, we're going to have to "win back" (yes, I know this kind of talk is insane for people who earn millions of pounds, but that's the way it is, sadly) a lot of them, and to start doing that, we need to clarify the managerial situation as soon as we possibly can.
-
My question would be had they asked Downing, Bannan, Clark, Albrighton, Friedel, Ash, Gabby would they have answered the question, or summed up the current circumstances the same way? I'm sure none of them would be pleased with what has transpired, but certain players that no longer want to be at the club, and I include Young as one of them simply by his actions this year, are going to view things differently. I don't expect any support for the process or understanding of the current situation from likes of him, Ireland, Carew, Dunne, Warnock as examples because in my opinion they quit on us and the club a good while back. Even if those are his views, and there's merit in honesty, sometimes, just sometimes, keeping you overpaid gob shut is better. But for those with an agenda, that's never going to be a consideration.
-
I don't thing Young knows what the future holds because it has not been decided.
I would hope that they are working out contingencies but so much is up in the air because of Houlliers's illness that I doubt even Randy has a clear idea of what will happen.
-
that's the thing Chris. He could have answered the question in a number of different ways, but by calling it a "mess" is lot more interesting than saying there's uncertainty due to the manager's illness. I'm betting had they asked one of the other players I mentioned that would put a more favourable slant on the current state of affairs this would be a complete non-story. I'm not saying Luke Young is 100% wrong, but I imagine with his seat on the bus being in jeopardy he's a great sound bite right now.
-
that's the thing Chris. He could have answered the question in a number of different ways, but by calling it a "mess" is lot more interesting than saying there's uncertainty due to the manager's illness. I'm betting had they asked one of the other players I mentioned that would put a more favourable slant on the current state of affairs this would be a complete non-story. I'm not saying Luke Young is 100% wrong, but I imagine with his seat on the bus being in jeopardy he's a great sound bite right now.
If his contract is up for renewal, isn't he more likely to keep shtum about it all?
His sentiments with his at least top 8 comment are pretty much right, though, and it is good to hear at least one player saying it's really not good enough, even if you take into account his own culpability in the situation. I doubt you'd be able to find another player in the squad who'd disagree with that.
-
that's the thing Chris. He could have answered the question in a number of different ways, but by calling it a "mess" is lot more interesting than saying there's uncertainty due to the manager's illness. I'm betting had they asked one of the other players I mentioned that would put a more favourable slant on the current state of affairs this would be a complete non-story. I'm not saying Luke Young is 100% wrong, but I imagine with his seat on the bus being in jeopardy he's a great sound bite right now.
I think you're possibly reading too much into it, Toronto. He's got previous for just saying what he's thinking without filtering it through the usual bland footballer PR speak.
-
It's a really honest comment and rare to hear a footballer talking so candidly; usually they're far more guarded and I agree many of the squad would have gone with the 'we've just got to do our jobs' line.
I would guess that those players really concerned about the club's future have a lot riding personally on whether Houllier stays or not: I'm sure there are a few who know they'll be going if Houllier remains in charge; I'd put Luke in that group, though he may have played his way back into contention in recent weeks.
-
The whole season has been a mess, and anybody can see that. He's just being honest.
-
that's the thing Chris. He could have answered the question in a number of different ways, but by calling it a "mess" is lot more interesting than saying there's uncertainty due to the manager's illness. I'm betting had they asked one of the other players I mentioned that would put a more favourable slant on the current state of affairs this would be a complete non-story. I'm not saying Luke Young is 100% wrong, but I imagine with his seat on the bus being in jeopardy he's a great sound bite right now.
I think you're possibly reading too much into it, Toronto. He's got previous for just saying what he's thinking without filtering it through the usual bland footballer PR speak.
I see he's even got himself an entry on Who Is The Secret Footballer (http://www.whoisthesecretfootballer.co.uk/index.php/luke-young/) today.
Not much evidence in favour, though.
-
I think you're possibly reading too much into it, Toronto. He's got previous for just saying what he's thinking without filtering it through the usual bland footballer PR speak.
That's pretty much my interpretation of it, too.
I think Paulie's probably not far off either, mentioning that he's probably only saying what a lot of the players are thinking, particularly in relation to the 'top 8' comment.
-
that's the thing Chris. He could have answered the question in a number of different ways, but by calling it a "mess" is lot more interesting than saying there's uncertainty due to the manager's illness. I'm betting had they asked one of the other players I mentioned that would put a more favourable slant on the current state of affairs this would be a complete non-story. I'm not saying Luke Young is 100% wrong, but I imagine with his seat on the bus being in jeopardy he's a great sound bite right now.
I think you're possibly reading too much into it, Toronto. He's got previous for just saying what he's thinking without filtering it through the usual bland footballer PR speak.
Maybe I am. My point is his comments are now the comments of Aston Villa players and won't neccesarily be viewed as those exclusive to Luke Young. It's far more juicy to get a comment from a malcontent than it is to get it from those who might have a different opinion on things, or might have started to see the positives of GH prior to his illness. Now just a few weeks after a 4 game unbeaten streak, the team playing better football, a big win at West Ham and things looking up, Luke Young of Aston Villa proclaims things are a mess.
-
I don't thing Young knows what the future holds because it has not been decided.
That made me laugh. It makes it sound like everyone else knows exactly what the future holds for them, because it HAS been decided. If so, can you please tell me where exactly Heskey will be as I'm hoping it's not at the Villa.
-
I don't thing Young knows what the future holds because it has not been decided.
That made me laugh. It makes it sound like everyone else knows exactly what the future holds for them, because it HAS been decided. If so, can you please tell me where exactly Heskey will be as I'm hoping it's not at the Villa.
After his successful audition at the weekend he will be appearing in Wrestlemania 30.
-
It's not a happy camp is it?
I saw Young bickering with Richard Dunne for about 30 minutes on Saturday. At the same time I saw James Collins bollocking Walker and Young for most the game. By the end of the game Albrighton's confidence was so shot he was (mis) hitting first time crosses when he should be running with it and running with it when he needed to release it. I also saw senior pros bollicking kids and not passing the ball to them when the pass was on. Sometimes you can see that in a successful team and it's a positive thing. But after the season we've had, senior pros arguing and bollocking kids is about as welcome as a pain in the arse.
Luke Young is telling it like he sees it. He should keep his mouth shut, at least til the end of the season. But he is telling the truth. The current Villa squad is split between those who are off and those who are going to be there next year and there is no uniting force (IE a manager who is in charge and will be there next season). It IS a a total mess.
-
A lot of people seem convinced that we're going to have a mass clear out this summer, including plenty of those in the first team. I think we might only lose one or two first teamers. I'm not sure we can afford to replace so many players. Only AY or Downing would fetch any real dough.
-
that's the thing Chris. He could have answered the question in a number of different ways, but by calling it a "mess" is lot more interesting than saying there's uncertainty due to the manager's illness. I'm betting had they asked one of the other players I mentioned that would put a more favourable slant on the current state of affairs this would be a complete non-story. I'm not saying Luke Young is 100% wrong, but I imagine with his seat on the bus being in jeopardy he's a great sound bite right now.
I think you're possibly reading too much into it, Toronto. He's got previous for just saying what he's thinking without filtering it through the usual bland footballer PR speak.
Agreed Chris.
He was very clear about the folly of playing a weakened side in the UEFA cup (before we actually did it) and how he'd be one of a number of players not happy with that.
He seems to be one of the good guys, says what he thinks rather than talking in riddles.
-
He seems to be one of the good guys, says what he thinks rather than talking in riddles.
You mean he gives the press easy ammunition to run 'Club in crisis' style stories?
It is refreshing to hear a footballer saying something that isn't in the generic footballer interview handbook but I'd much prefer it if it was other club's footballers.
-
The press will do it anyway and would you rather be patronised by a player telling you everything in the garden is rosy when it clearly isn't?
It's been a shit season, for a variety of reasons. I'd actually be a wee bit more concerned if the players didn't think that and weren't actually bothered about the current managerial situation.
-
It's been a shit season, for a variety of reasons. I'd actually be a wee bit more concerned if the players didn't think that and weren't actually bothered about the current managerial situation.
It has indeed and you'd have to be Stevie Wonder not to see it.
So I'd rather our players weren't playing rent-a-gob and shouting it from the rooftops. They should be getting their head down and doing something about it. If they have to talk to a journo they should toe the party line.
What would your boss think if you posted all over Facebook/Twitter what an absolute shambles the place you work at was and that no-one there knew what was going on?
-
Thankfully my career isn't high profile enough to warrant the kind of interest or attention footballers receive.
In most industries the managers word is law and it pays not to agitate him/her in any way shape or form. Footballers know that there is generally as much chance of the manager being moved on/ forced to quit as there is of them being forced to carry the can, so they have more leeway in that regard.
You can interpret it as another example of player power/ everything that is rotten about football, but there it is.
-
A complete and utter clean sweep is needed this Summer. Anyone - and I mean anyone - who wishes to leave should go. The Manager and his mate should go regardless of their desires and a proper, fit and most importantly, hungry manager should come in. Dare I say it that Randy also needs to evaluate his board and where necessary make changes there too.
No pissing about, no molly-coddling, we need positive action.
-
Spot on Des and i pray this will happen, and i think the players want this as well the way they played on Saturday
A complete and utter clean sweep is needed this Summer. Anyone - and I mean anyone - who wishes to leave should go. The Manager and his mate should go regardless of their desires and a proper, fit and most importantly, hungry manager should come in. Dare I say it that Randy also needs to evaluate his board and where necessary make changes there too.
No pissing about, no molly-coddling, we need positive action.
-
Inspired by a post on another thread, this is who SkyBet think the next Villa manager will be:
David Moyes 1/1
FSW 5/2
Allardyce 5/1
Hughes 7/1
K Mac 8/1
Martin Jol 8/1
Schteve McClaren 8/1
It gets silly after that. For people who'd prefer to donate their money to Sky, Capello is 25/1, Mourinho and Maradona are 33/1, and a certain Martin O'Neill is 20/1!!!
-
Mourinho is only 33/1? Crikey.
-
Mourinho is only 33/1? Crikey.
I'm sure I saw him in Asda Minworth at the weekend...
-
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/294993683.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1304979171&Signature=62LrlCtAgDebjfZ9Y8jP6eE4sT8%3D)
Factoring in no Milner replacement, his health issues and the team not being arsed in the last two games as they've nothing to play for, it shows he's not doing too badly.
-
Its a Talksport story, but a suggestion that Quique Sanchez Flores might be in the frame. That could be a interesting step. Maybe he could bring Aguerro with him.
-
I can't get too excited about the more exotic names that are being banded about. I assume that Lerner will not deviate too far from the criteria he had when he recruited Houllier (assuming Houllier won't be manager of course), where experience in the Premier League is required. I would think Hughes and Moyes will be high on the list which, considering this past year, is fine by me, even if I can't get too excited about it.
How did it come to this? I feel so apathetic about everything Villa-related at the moment, I never would have thought that over the past 3 or 4 seasons.
-
Following on from yesterday, more quotes from Young in a piece on NRC. I'll put the whole article, as it's full of relevant detail.
Nigel Reo-Coker believes Aston Villa have done well to cope with blows (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/10/nigel-reo-coker-aston-villa)
by Louise Taylor
The Guardian, Tuesday 10 May 2011
Nigel Reo-Coker and Luke Young have reinforced the impression that Aston Villa remains a club very much in limbo. Almost everything at Villa Park has been necessarily placed on hold while directors, staff and players wait to learn whether Gérard Houllier will be fit to resume as manager.
Reo-Coker believes that, rather than being pilloried for underachieving, he and his team-mates should be praised for averting relegation. "It has been very difficult at this club, there has been so much that has happened throughout the whole season," the midfielder said. "Full credit to the boys and the staff because we have done well. If other clubs had been in the same situation as us they would have been relegated. So much has changed, we have done well to stay together as a team and keep performing."
With Reo-Coker and the goalkeeper Brad Friedel approaching the end of their contracts and persistent rumours linking Ashley Young with a transfer to Manchester United, Liverpool or Tottenham Hotspur, Luke Young is worried that Villa are treading water at the wrong time. "We've discussed it ourselves as players, wondering who is going to be making the decisions about who to keep and sell," he said. "No one knows. Again."
Villa have had four managers since the end of last season: Martin O'Neill, who left the club on the eve of the new campaign; Kevin MacDonald, who was caretaker manager; Houllier, who was appointed in September; and Gary McAllister, the Frenchman's assistant who is currently filling in. But Reo-Coker hopes Houllier will be passed fit after his heart trouble to return to the dugout.
"I owe Gérard Houllier tremendously," he said. "He has restored belief and confidence. He is a great manager. I think he has got us playing great football and I still believe the best is yet to come."
Even so, Reo-Coker acknowledges that only the doctors can determine whether Houllier is able to finish what he started. "His situation's bigger than football," he said. "I sent him a text a couple of weeks ago to see how he was and I will probably go and see him this week. I owe him a lot and am very grateful for the opportunities he has given me and the belief he has instilled."
The 'No one knows. Again.' is pretty strong.
-
And an article specifically related to Young's comments:
'No one really knows what's going on at Aston Villa,' says Luke Young (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/09/aston-villa-luke-young)
Press Association
guardian.co.uk, Monday 9 May 2011 10.45 BST
The Aston Villa defender Luke Young has characterised the current uncertain air around the club and says "no one really knows what is going on" at the club.
With the manager, Gérard Houllier, on sick leave to recover from recent heart problems, the former England full-back fears another summer of upheaval at Villa Park will follow an alarmingly unsettled season.
"It is going to be another summer of no one knowing what's really going on for a while," he said. "I would hope the manager, first and foremost, is healthy and he comes through the trouble he has been having with his heart.
"I think also we need to know what we are doing, who is going to be taking the club forward, who is going to be making the decision on what players stay and go and who is going to be in charge for next season. Hopefully Gérard is fine and he can carry on but at the minute, let's be honest, no one really knows what is going on."
With Brad Friedel and Nigel Reo-Coker approaching the end of their contracts and persistent rumours linking Ashley Young with a transfer to Manchester United, Liverpool or Tottenham, Young is worried that the club is in limbo.
"We've discussed it ourselves as players, who is going to be making the decisions to keep and sell," he said. "No one knows again."
Villa have had four managers since the end of last season in Martin O'Neill, the caretaker Kevin MacDonald, Houllier and now his stand-in Gary McAllister. But Young refuses to use that as an excuse for a season of underachievement.
"That's our job, to do a lot better than we have this year. We are not going to make loads of excuses," he said. "It is not ideal but, as a group of players, we know where we are in the league is not good enough and we are honest enough as a group to know we haven't done enough.
"I don't feel we should be struggling with the squad we've got and next year let's hope we fly out the blocks a little bit better than we did this year and we really move on."
-
The comments from NRC beggar belief, but then I suppose they're from someone who probably isn't awash with the sort of offers he was expecting, and is therefore hoping that saying something nice will lead to a new contract at Villa. But "we have done well" and " He is a great manager, I think he has got us playing great football"? Who is he trying to kid?
-
The comments from NRC beggar belief, but then I suppose they're from someone who probably isn't awash with the sort of offers he was expecting, and is therefore hoping that saying something nice will lead to a new contract at Villa. But "we have done well" and " He is a great manager, I think he has got us playing great football"? Who is he trying to kid?
This comment from him beggars belief.
"Full credit to the boys and the staff because we have done well.''
Footballers really do live in a fantasy world.
But as i've said before, what else can you expect from an industry that rewards failure.
-
The 'No one knows. Again.' is pretty strong.
'No one knows. Again'.... 'It is going to be another summer of no one knowing what's really going on for a while'.
Interesting comments. I thought we had a manager for the bulk of last summer... perhaps the players knew a lot more about O'Neill's state of mind, and the uncertainty surrounding his future, than we first realised. To all intents and purposes, we had a manager fully involved during pre-season last year. Or did we?
-
I don't think we did. I attended a few of the pre-season friendlies and that man was conspicuous by his absence.
-
Why would the players know who is going to be manager yet?
The situation with Houllier is still being addressed on several levels and besides, why would the board consult players on who they're going after as manager when a lot of them might not even be there and dont deserve to be?
I really dont think Randy is going to let the grass grow under him on this issue.
As for Reo Cokers comments. Absolute bollocks. The team have turned in unacceptable level of peformance this season. Some have done better than others but the overall level has not been good enough. As a group, they have to accept this and not try and mug us off.
I know it's been difficult for them but you have to get on with it. Simply avoiding relegation is shameful for this club. Its not an achievement. Very poor indeed Nigel.
A fundamental change needs to happen at this club this summer. Not least in attitude.
This is a great club, a storied, sucessful and proud club. To wear the shirt of this club is an honour. From now on, whatever it costs us, unless a player truly understands this, I dont think they should be afforded the privilege of playing for us.
-
Can't help thinking that Young's comments hint at one of the problems affecting the club this season: the role of the senior roles (or some of them). Rather than showing the kind of leadership you'd expect and hope for, they seem to think they've almost got a hand in running the team - this ongoing row about defensive marking, etc. I'm looking at you, Luke - and you, Dunne. And you, Collins. And you, Warnock (wherever you are). Player power's been too prevalent this season. We just needed them to get on and play, not give it the big bollocks routine.
-
I can sort of see where Reo Coker is coming from. We haven't played great football, or at least not very often, so that's rubbish. However, the players have had a lot to deal with; we're on our 4th manager, injuries, no summer signings, arguments, fights and a lot of negative publicity. I don't think he should be making too many claims of doing well but he's probably right to say that a lot of other clubs would have been relegated if they'd had to cope with all of that.
-
I can sort of see where Reo Coker is coming from. We haven't played great football, or at least not very often, so that's rubbish. However, the players have had a lot to deal with; we're on our 4th manager, injuries, no summer signings, arguments, fights and a lot of negative publicity. I don't think he should be making too many claims of doing well but he's probably right to say that a lot of other clubs would have been relegated if they'd had to cope with all of that.
The signing of Bent is the only thing that turned around an almost certain relegation this season. As it is, we are still not quite there.
I also understand where Reo-Coker is coming from in terms of how the team has been trying to play. The damning statistic this season though is to have lost 26 points from winning or drawing positions. That suggests a team lacking leadership and togetherness and it has not improved throughout the season.
-
I can sort of see where Reo Coker is coming from. We haven't played great football, or at least not very often, so that's rubbish. However, the players have had a lot to deal with; we're on our 4th manager, injuries, no summer signings, arguments, fights and a lot of negative publicity. I don't think he should be making too many claims of doing well but he's probably right to say that a lot of other clubs would have been relegated if they'd had to cope with all of that.
The signing of Bent is the only thing that turned around an almost certain relegation this season. As it is, we are still not quite there.
I also understand where Reo-Coker is coming from in terms of how the team has been trying to play. The damning statistic this season though is to have lost 26 points from winning or drawing positions. That suggests a team lacking leadership and togetherness and it has not improved throughout the season.
That and a woeful defence.
-
Having a striker like bent makes up for other defeciencies in the team, such as a poor defence. Take Everton away - 2 all draw thanks to him, yet last season that game would have been a quite likely 0-0. So same result, but we needed the top class striker as we can't defend for toffee.
-
The players have had a lot to deal with? :o
Poor lambs
Only earn more in a week than most of us do in a year
hero Worshipped
Kick a bag of wind about for 6 hours a week
-
Haven't got a problem with what young said. It needs to be sorted one way or the other and fast. If we're still up in the air come the end of May then i won't be happy. We can't afford to have another summer of drifting with no proper leadership.
-
I has the same feel as the season before Randy took over where there was a lot of unrest on the playing side. Hopefully its a sign of another revolution in the summer!!!
-
There will be no announcement about the managerial position until the season ends but i would be suprised if a new manager hadn't already been sounded out.
-
I has the same feel as the season before Randy took over where there was a lot of unrest on the playing side. Hopefully its a sign of another revolution in the summer!!!
I was saying that to some colleagues today. The difference being I have full confidence in the Chairman.
Which I suppose is amassive difference, but yes. Otheriwse it's very similar.
I do honestly think a revolution is coming in the summer, of sorts.
We might not hear about a new manager until mid June though. Which is the latest it needs to be sorted.
I think Randy appreciates this.
-
NRC..... It's beyond a joke for anybody to suggest the players have done anything other than a completely shocking job collectively, let alone a senior player himself.
-
and GH might help Randy to hand pick his replacement as well. Don't forget that.
I would have a room with GH, SGT, RL, BFRA and Dennis Mortimer on board for interview room and between them they can choose an ideal man.
-
The right thing for the club to do is show the pair the door on Monday after the Liverpool game. Thus giving us the whole summer to find a replacement.
-
Guillem Balague has posted on Twitter: "Quique and Rafa in Aston Villa's shortlist pending what happens with Houllier of course"
Apologies if posted before, by the way. I assume those two will be No.2 & No.3 after No.1 Curbishley.
-
Balague tends to know his stuff, so maybe accurate.
-
Guillem Balague has posted on Twitter: "Quique and Rafa in Aston Villa's shortlist pending what happens with Houllier of course"
Apologies if posted before, by the way. I assume those two will be No.2 & No.3 after No.1 Curbishley.
Quique and Rafa sounds like third on the bill at a working men's club cabaret night.
-
My exact thought as I read that Chris
-
Balague tends to know his stuff, so maybe accurate.
Or he might just be rehashing speculation that is already out there.
-
Balague tends to know his stuff, so maybe accurate.
Or he might just be rehashing speculation that is already out there.
May well be.
-
Whatever happens I just bloody hope we get it right as those lot at Tottenham did with Harry. I know he is not the most popular but he has done a fantastic job. When you see us and them in the last few years you can't but help be jealous. I mean at one point we were on a even keel, then they dropped like a stone after Jol.......now look at them.
-
Whatever happens I just bloody hope we get it right as those lot at Tottenham did with Harry. I know he is not the most popular but he has done a fantastic job. When you see us and them in the last few years you can't but help be jealous. I mean at one point we were on a even keel, then they dropped like a stone after Jol.......now look at them.
Yeah look at them...6th. When was the last time we saw those dizzy heights?
-
Whatever happens I just bloody hope we get it right as those lot at Tottenham did with Harry. I know he is not the most popular but he has done a fantastic job. When you see us and them in the last few years you can't but help be jealous. I mean at one point we were on a even keel, then they dropped like a stone after Jol.......now look at them.
Yeah look at them...6th. When was the last time we saw those dizzy heights?
Yeah, because they have done nothing recently and there fans are as disillusioned as most of ours...
We were at one point on and even keel, they have won a cup, finished 4th, had a great CL run and now have a quality squad.
All Mainly down to picking the right manager, now we must do the same.
-
Whatever happens I just bloody hope we get it right as those lot at Tottenham did with Harry. I know he is not the most popular but he has done a fantastic job. When you see us and them in the last few years you can't but help be jealous. I mean at one point we were on a even keel, then they dropped like a stone after Jol.......now look at them.
Yeah look at them...6th. When was the last time we saw those dizzy heights?
Yeah, because they have done nothing recently and there fans are as disillusioned as most of ours...
We were at one point on and even keel, they have won a cup, finished 4th, had a great CL run and now have a quality squad.
All Mainly down to picking the right manager, now we must do the same.
For all the big love in about Spurs, they don't look anything special to me. They wont finishg top 4 this year and they wont next year IMO. They don't have a goalscorer despite spending millions on strikers and there defence isn't great either. They had a good CL run this year, but that will be it for them for a while. And as for winning a cup, they won the carling cup 3 years ago. I am hardly green with envy.
-
I don't like Benitez as a bloke, but his pedigree is probably better than almost every manager in our history. I couldn't see us struggling like we did this year. Him or moyes look the best bets to me but i reckon there's much more chance rafa would want the job.
-
I don't like Benitez as a bloke, but his pedigree is probably better than almost every manager in our history. I couldn't see us struggling like we did this year. Him or moyes look the best bets to me but i reckon there's much more chance rafa would want the job.
Agree Matt, Benitez is a good manager. I just don't think he'd be a good Villa manager. Moyes fits the bill for me and I think he'd jump at it. Essentially, if leaving Everton (no money whatsoever and an ageing squad) where else will he go?
-
But why is villa a better bet than everton? Only if were prepared to really bankroll him and I'm not convinced we are.
-
Depends on whether we get master tactician Rafa or goateed nutter Rafa.
-
Know what you're saying but I think we'll be spending more than Everton. Unless Spurs get rid of Redknapp, Villa is the natural progression for Moyes. Where else would he go?
-
Indeed, Bentman. Indeed.
-
But why 'go' anywhere this summer?
-
These pair of clowns have got to go (along with Friedel, all the defence, Petrov, Ashley Young, Agbonlahor, Heskey etc. All shit) but please not Benitez.
I'd like Moyes, or take a gamble on Lambert.
-
These pair of clowns have got to go (along with Friedel, all the defence, Petrov, Ashley Young, Agbonlahor, Heskey etc. All shit) but please not Benitez.
I'd like Moyes, or take a gamble on Lambert.
a well thought out point- all shit, thats it all shit
-
But why 'go' anywhere this summer?
Because he's run out of steam at Everton.
-
I can't believe that after MON had total control over everything from the players' contracts to the brand of tea bag at Bodymoor, there are so many people that want to hand the club over to one person again.
The guy's an absolute control freak with a truck load of mates he takes to every job and within two months he'd have total control over everything. If that went belly-up we'd be in an even worse position than when MON left.
-
I can't believe that after MON had total control over everything from the players' contracts to the brand of tea bag at Bodymoor, there are so many people that want to hand the club over to one person again.
The guy's an absolute control freak with a truck load of mates he takes to every job and within two months he'd have total control over everything. If that went belly-up we'd be in an even worse position than when MON left.
Who? Moyes?
-
I can't believe that after MON had total control over everything from the players' contracts to the brand of tea bag at Bodymoor, there are so many people that want to hand the club over to one person again.
The guy's an absolute control freak with a truck load of mates he takes to every job and within two months he'd have total control over everything. If that went belly-up we'd be in an even worse position than when MON left.
Who? Moyes?
Nope. I'll give you a clue - all his mates are Spanish and he's told the press that he'd be interested in the Villa job as he likes a project where he gets control of everything.
-
That's true. Didn't it cost Liverpool millions and millions to clear the books of Spanish coaches/physios/masseurs? If he came here one would hope we don't suffer the same fate otherwise it would be a disaster.
-
Oh, but is it true? Didn't he hire Kenny Dalglish (still at the club), Sammy Lee (still at the club) and Rodolfo Borell (still at the club)? Not sure if that is comparable to what MON did to us. After all, Benitez brought some of his staff with him to a new job. That's not unusual. MON brought his mate with him into unemployment,
-
I'm quite happy with the draw against Wigan.
We have played an awful game, as we did for all the season apart three or four games (whose the best agianst WHUFC with KMC on the bench), and so it's quite clear that we have in the team many crap and overpaid players and a big, big managerial problem. If we would have won the last useless three games, on one hand our table wouldn't be improved, and on the other hand there was the possibility that GH and his managerial staff were confirmed, whereas now I think that this can not happen. There will be a bit of fresh air with a new possibly young manager (Paul Lambert has always been my fav.) and new players.
-
Oh, but is it true? Didn't he hire Kenny Dalglish (still at the club), Sammy Lee (still at the club) and Rodolfo Borell (still at the club)? Not sure if that is comparable to what MON did to us. After all, Benitez brought some of his staff with him to a new job. That's not unusual. MON brought his mate with him into unemployment,
I think Dalglish and Lee already had connections to Liverpool.
-
Just the horrible thought of GH and GMac in charge next season is making me have second thoughts about Benitez.
-
Just the horrible thought of GH and GMac in charge next season is making me have second thoughts about Benitez.
I'd rather try the job myself than see Benitez in charge. Back in the mid-90s I was amazing at Championship Manager - I made Nii Lamptey world class on a regular basis!!
-
Oh, but is it true? Didn't he hire Kenny Dalglish (still at the club), Sammy Lee (still at the club) and Rodolfo Borell (still at the club)? Not sure if that is comparable to what MON did to us. After all, Benitez brought some of his staff with him to a new job. That's not unusual. MON brought his mate with him into unemployment,
I think Dalglish and Lee already had connections to Liverpool.
Yes, but the point is whether or not Benitez is the kind of guy to tear down everything when he leaves -- a la MON, The fact that he hires people with connections to the club rather than to himself suggests not.
-
Oh, but is it true? Didn't he hire Kenny Dalglish (still at the club), Sammy Lee (still at the club) and Rodolfo Borell (still at the club)? Not sure if that is comparable to what MON did to us. After all, Benitez brought some of his staff with him to a new job. That's not unusual. MON brought his mate with him into unemployment,
I think Dalglish and Lee already had connections to Liverpool.
Yes, but the point is whether or not Benitez is the kind of guy to tear down everything when he leaves -- a la MON, The fact that he hires people with connections to the club rather than to himself suggests not.
He's got a much larger back room team than most managers. When he goes into clubs he sets about putting all his preferences (and mates) in place. When he leaves the club's left to start from scratch. That's why I think Hodgson struggled so badly following on from him.
-
I want Houllier to stay and organise pre-season.
(tin hat on again)
-
How will people react if Houllier does return next season? With Gary Mac in tow?
Is his position untenable now?
-
I'm not sure it's untenable unless of course the club can't possibly have any guarantees about his health. I think Houllier would help himself hugely by reorganising his back room staff. Personally, I would rather he stepped down. Villa to appoint Mark Hughes or David Moyes, Paul Lambert as an outsider.
-
yep Rafa he is the man, spent hundreds of millions converting a top team into a mediocre team, look at his transfers over the last 4 years, look at how much he spent, he left lpool in as bad a position that MON left us.
-
How will people react if Houllier does return next season? With Gary Mac in tow?
There will be banners.
-
yep Rafa he is the man, spent hundreds of millions converting a top team into a mediocre team, look at his transfers over the last 4 years, look at how much he spent, he left lpool in as bad a position that MON left us.
Is that why they're 5th and we're 14th?
-
yep Rafa he is the man, spent hundreds of millions converting a top team into a mediocre team, look at his transfers over the last 4 years, look at how much he spent, he left lpool in as bad a position that MON left us.
Is that why they're 5th and we're 14th?
It's all about getting the right manager, and Kenny's the right manager. His record in English football is pretty impressive.
-
You could argue that Liverpool sacked their manager and got a new bloke in at just about the right time, and look how they've done, so maybe we should have done the same.
However, Liverpool had the advantage of someone who has been associated with the club for 40 years, is loved by the fans, knows the club inside out, and was already actually working there when they brought him back.
We would not have had such an obvious candidate to turn to, so it wouldn't necessarily have been as smooth for us.
-
I happen to quite like Houllier but he's not the right man for the job, not even close.
In over his head and needs to go immediately. Even moreso Gary Mac.
-
yep Rafa he is the man, spent hundreds of millions converting a top team into a mediocre team, look at his transfers over the last 4 years, look at how much he spent, he left lpool in as bad a position that MON left us.
He won the Champions League with ONE top class player. Give me a break.
-
I would find Houllier staying far more palatable if he ditched GM, and brought in Bergues who worked with his defence at Liverpool.
The idea of GH and GM being in our dugout next season is not something that makes me want to go and spend almost 600 quid on a season ticket.
-
yep Rafa he is the man, spent hundreds of millions converting a top team into a mediocre team, look at his transfers over the last 4 years, look at how much he spent, he left lpool in as bad a position that MON left us.
He won the Champions League with ONE top class player. Give me a break.
Which he didn't sign.
-
I dont mind Houllier giving it a proper crack if his health is up to it. But I very much think it isnt so its neither here nor there.
McAllister is not really cut out for management (including assistant) either although I suspect he'd be a good coach.
Randy will hire a new manager and that manager will be backed as Randy has proven thus far to the tune of circa £30m each year.
That's why so many good managers will be interested, including Moyes, who would have more resources than he's ever had in several seasons combined.
Beneitez is a curious one. You have to respect his record but I cant help but feel he's losing the plot a bit and his most recent history is a bit suspect.
I'm sure he'll be interested and considered though.
I dont really know anything about Quiche Flowers. To be honest I've never heard of him. Obviously he must have some pedigree to be managing Atletico Madrid. Tell him he can have the job if he sticks Aguero in a sack and smuggles him in.
-
Whatever happens I just bloody hope we get it right as those lot at Tottenham did with Harry. I know he is not the most popular but he has done a fantastic job. When you see us and them in the last few years you can't but help be jealous. I mean at one point we were on a even keel, then they dropped like a stone after Jol.......now look at them.
Yeah look at them...6th. When was the last time we saw those dizzy heights?
So pedantic.
-
Benitez has a super CV lads. Dont be codding yourselves. With him living in Liverpool and still going to games in Anfield I dont think he is the right man for us. He led Liverpool to a serious title charge two years ago and Id argue made a proper player out of Gerrard and Carragher (whom he put centre half). Signed Torres, Reina, Benayoun, Alonso and a host of other good players. Losing Alonso screwed him though and he lost it soon after selling Arbeloa and signing Glenn Johnson was madness. With youth players coming through now at Liverpool, that may well be down to Benitez who put the boot down with their Academy a few years ago. After Liverpool, Valencia and Inter Milan, Im afraid he would look on Villa as a step down and we should stay clear.
As we are at a low ebb and have a host of players at the end of their contracts, it is the perfect time for a new man to come in. Anyone competent will take us back to the top 8 id imagine and has a healthy academy to draw from. Steve McClaren when he went to Holland didnt bring anyone with him and worked with the club coaches. it didnt work out for him in Germany but by all accounts there was players far too close to the chairman there. Villa imo is the perfect draw for him, he wont see it as a step down, his experiences in Holland and Germany will stand him in good stead and I think he is the right man for us. He completely blitzed Martin Jol for example in his time in Holland.
I dont doubt that there will be many interested but McClaren is the man for me. We simply cannot give Houllier another chance, we are not a charity and paid him a huge wage last season to improve the team in which he has dismally failed. He also brought in a clown as assistant manager. We need to make a change and make it quick.
-
Anyone for a bit of Rijkaard? It's on the Gossip Column. I like him as a manager but find it hard to forgive the gobbing incident.
-
Anyone for a bit of Rijkaard? It's on the Gossip Column. I like him as a manager but find it hard to forgive the gobbing incident.
I'd rather take spitting Frank over the FSW!
-
I can't believe that after MON had total control over everything from the players' contracts to the brand of tea bag at Bodymoor, there are so many people that want to hand the club over to one person again.
The guy's an absolute control freak with a truck load of mates he takes to every job and within two months he'd have total control over everything. If that went belly-up we'd be in an even worse position than when MON left.
That's a good point Ad@m, at Liverpool he slowly removed pretty much every member of staff and replaced them with his own - arguably - yes men. I remember reading at the time that this had damaged Liverpool although there were mitigating circumstances with the board they had at the time.
Conversely I have read (or heard) recently that this crop of youngsters coming through at Liverpool are the result of changes rafa made after their previous manager, whatshisface... had ignored the youth system. Indeed Rafa even talked about Gardner whilst at Inter so he knows youth football (can you imagine MON having that depth of knowledge).
Sigh, I don't know what to think anymore. Ultimately, Benitez does not feel like a Villa man, so it's a "no" from me. I'm out.
-
Rijkaard linked in the Mirror today. That could be interesting.
-
Rijkaard linked in the Mirror today. That could be interesting.
you've basically quashed all chance of this being true by quoting your source.
-
What has he been up to since Barca?
-
Is Quiche Flowers really a football manager? Can we really have someone call Quiche Flowers in charge of a football team!!
-
Benitez strikes me as being a bit mental.
-
I can't believe that after MON had total control over everything from the players' contracts to the brand of tea bag at Bodymoor, there are so many people that want to hand the club over to one person again.
The guy's an absolute control freak with a truck load of mates he takes to every job and within two months he'd have total control over everything. If that went belly-up we'd be in an even worse position than when MON left.
Have to agree with Adam on this.
It would be a retrograde step to let somebody control all things Villa again, besides which, I feel we're too big to let one man dictate everything that happens at the club.
As soon as you dare to question a person who rules all like that, they flounce off in a hissy fit.
-
Hence my suggestion of having football people build up the infrastructure behind the scenes.
Managers come and go and if they have all the say, all the power, it all goes tits up when they leave.
-
The thing that always used to amuse me about Rafa was when he'd start engaging in "mind games" with Ferguson, only to completely fuck it up and end up making himself look a total tool, as Ferguson effortlessly wound him up.
That and the way he says "cloob". I like that about Spanish people.
-
That and the way he says "cloob". I like that about Spanish people.
Did you notice how people say it when you lived over here, Paulie? 'Cleb'. It's almost as though someone once heard the queen say it and, as a result, it has entered the language in that form. Problem is, if you say 'club' then no-one understands you, so you have to pronounce it in this faux-received pronunciation style.
-
The thing that always used to amuse me about Rafa was when he'd start engaging in "mind games" with Ferguson, only to completely fuck it up and end up making himself look a total tool, as Ferguson effortlessly wound him up.
That and the way he says "cloob". I like that about Spanish people.
Every time you say it, it makes me laugh so its a no from me concerning him. If he did come and results went bad id be happy to hear "your just a fat spanish waiter" being sung from the holte
-
That and the way he says "cloob". I like that about Spanish people.
Did you notice how people say it when you lived over here, Paulie? 'Cleb'. It's almost as though someone once heard the queen say it and, as a result, it has entered the language in that form. Problem is, if you say 'club' then no-one understands you, so you have to pronounce it in this faux-received pronunciation style.
Ha ha, yes.
The best Italian football word is "Il Mister" in reference to managers. Makes me chuckle every time.
I think (may be wrong) it goes to the early days when football in Italy was promoted by Englishmen, who often set up clubs and appointed themselves as manager.
-
I think (may be wrong) it goes to the early days when football in Italy was promoted by Englishmen, who often set up clubs and appointed themselves as manager.
I think that has a lot to do with it.
'Il mister' is excellent. The use of 'dribbling' is good too, 'dribblare' and 'dribblatore'.
-
I think (may be wrong) it goes to the early days when football in Italy was promoted by Englishmen, who often set up clubs and appointed themselves as manager.
I think that has a lot to do with it.
'Il mister' is excellent. The use of 'dribbling' is good too, 'dribblare' and 'dribblatore'.
"pressing" too, that one makes me laugh.
do you go to many matches over there?
i used to watch Milan a lot. People go on about our fans getting on players' backs easily, but they're far worse over there.
-
do you go to many matches over there?
Not very often. I've been here nearly seven years now and have a soft spot for Roma as it's the team that my father-in-law follows, and I follow what's going on with the local teams, but I've never really been able to get into it in a big way. I think it's mainly because there's no way I can feel the same way about any other team as I do about the Villa - can't afford the emotional investment in it - but also because, now that I've got the family to look after, there are just other things to do. Once the nipper grows up a bit then I'll no doubt get more into it - in the meantime I continue the strict Villa indoctrination programme he's on, poor kid. In addition, we haven't watched the TV for two years now, apart from quickly reading RAI teletext in the morning before going to work, so the only Italian football I get to see is clips on websites, reading the Gazzetta in a bar or talking about it with my colleagues, although several of them would much rather talk about English football.
-
I dont mind Houllier giving it a proper crack if his health is up to it. But I very much think it isnt so its neither here nor there.
McAllister is not really cut out for management (including assistant) either although I suspect he'd be a good coach.
Randy will hire a new manager and that manager will be backed as Randy has proven thus far to the tune of circa £30m each year.
That's why so many good managers will be interested, including Moyes, who would have more resources than he's ever had in several seasons combined.
Beneitez is a curious one. You have to respect his record but I cant help but feel he's losing the plot a bit and his most recent history is a bit suspect.
I'm sure he'll be interested and considered though.
I dont really know anything about Quiche Flowers. To be honest I've never heard of him. Obviously he must have some pedigree to be managing Atletico Madrid. Tell him he can have the job if he sticks Aguero in a sack and smuggles him in.
Agree with all of that. I think a fit Houllier could turn us round in time, but I hope he gives up the game for his own sake, and we'll be better off getting someone in quick, someone ideally with top european pedigree or a proven premiership manager, so Moyes, Jol or Quiche Lorraine.
I reckon Moyes is hanging on for the Man United job, though.
-
I reckon Moyes is hanging on for the Man United job, though.
He'd be a fool to as he's never gonna get it.
-
I reckon Moyes is hanging on for the Man United job, though.
He'd be a fool to as he's never gonna get it.
He's Fergie's tip for the job... And he normally gets his way.
-
There's more chance of the Statue of Liberty swimming over to central park for a picnic with Osama bin Laden and Elvis than there is of Moyes getting the Man Utd job.
I'll be very suprised if Mourinho isnt their next manager. Moyes doesn't have that kind of clout.
-
There's more chance of the Statue of Liberty swimming over to central park for a picnic with Osama bin Laden and Elvis than there is of Moyes getting the Man Utd job.
I'll be very suprised if Mourinho isnt their next manager. Moyes doesn't have that kind of clout.
Most united fans I speak to up here are convinced it'll be Moyes. Don't reckon we'll find out for a few years yet.
-
There's more chance of the Statue of Liberty swimming over to central park for a picnic with Osama bin Laden and Elvis than there is of Moyes getting the Man Utd job.
I'll be very suprised if Mourinho isnt their next manager. Moyes doesn't have that kind of clout.
Mourinho is hot favourite at even money with Victor Chandler. Moyes is equal 2nd favourite on 5/1 with er.... Martin O'Neill. Lauren Blanc and Capello are next on the list at 10/1.
-
not even sure moyes would take the job. Going to be a poisoned chalice following Ferguson
-
not even sure moyes would take the job. Going to be a poison chalice following Ferguson
that's why I don't think Mourinho would take it.
Either way, we should get in a Moyes, Jol, Quiche as soon as, so can start planning and building, and avoid another desparate season
-
I think Mourinhio could pull it off as he's a larger than life character like Ferguson. Moyes i think would get swamped by the level of expectation. Whoever takes it will have to deal with being constantly compared to redface and Jose is one of the few with a managerial record in the same class.
-
Mourinho would take it BECAUSE it's a poisoned chalice. His ego would allow him to believe he would be the man to take over from the best manager of all time. And he's probably the only man in the sport currently who could and make it work.
The Glazers or whoever would never hand over the keys to the castle to a man who has never won anything and has no European pedigree.
-
i want jol, moyes or kinky flowers to be manager...
-
Agree - Moyes might get a crack at Spurs or Arsenal at some point, but I reckon City becoming bigger has hardened Fergie into wanting to put United beyond reach in terms of success. 3 Champions league finals in 4 years is a phenomenal achievement given the age of their squad, or best players. They are slowly building yet another side that will win a lot of trophies, and I can see them signing 3-4 players this summer to strengthen again, then Fergie giving it another 4 years or so.
For Villa, Rijkaard I am not convinced by - did ok for Barca but that is Barca, and they have phenomenal players, pull and resources. I really don't want Hughes. Moyes would be the safe option but so mundane it is untrue. Rafa - at least there would be intrigue and players would be keen to come. We need someone like Lambert if we don't go for a glamour name.
-
If we're after a Glamour name, how about Chest Rockwell?
-
Good name. More of a striker than a manager though surely?
-
Dirk Diggler?
-
For Villa, Rijkaard I am not convinced by - did ok for Barca but that is Barca, and they have phenomenal players, pull and resources. I really don't want Hughes. Moyes would be the safe option but so mundane it is untrue. Rafa - at least there would be intrigue and players would be keen to come. We need someone like Lambert if we don't go for a glamour name.
I think Rijkaard has that sort of excitement about him more than Benitez. Big name and we really wouldn't know what to expect - would create a real buzz around the place.
-
With Rijkaard you could at least expect attractive, attacking football. He's not my first choice but he has top pedigree. Yes, he managed and was very successful with Barca, not Osasuna or whoever, but there's still some heavyweight competition for La Liga and the Champions League.
Especially when they won it.
Also, how much of the current Barcelona side and their success is down to him? (I dont know the exact answer, I just thought it was worth asking).
-
You could argue that Liverpool sacked their manager and got a new bloke in at just about the right time, and look how they've done, so maybe we should have done the same.
However, Liverpool had the advantage of someone who has been associated with the club for 40 years, is loved by the fans, knows the club inside out, and was already actually working there when they brought him back.
We would not have had such an obvious candidate to turn to, so it wouldn't necessarily have been as smooth for us.
Yes but if it hadn't worked out, people would have said that he hadn't managed for ten years, and was a relative failure at both Newcastle and Celtic.
-
My sense is that Randy won't be looking for a manager who is currently employed at another club, it doesn't seem to be his style. Houllier was in work, but not for another club, and MON (although technically appointed by Douglas) was out of work. I can't see us trying to coax someone like Hughes out of their current employment. There seems to be a code of ethics at play with Randy - the reactions to Newcastle/ Milner and Sunderland/ Bent transfers (and non-transfers) spring to mind - and I don't think he wants to be seen to be doing the dirty on another club. Therefore I think we are more likely to go for Benitez or similar.
-
After last summers fiasco (long wait etc.) and the way this season has turned out, I think Randy will have to concede looking at employed managers. There is a reason why some managers are not in a job or working in other areas of the game. I don't think he'll want a repeat of this season.
-
You could argue that Liverpool sacked their manager and got a new bloke in at just about the right time, and look how they've done, so maybe we should have done the same.
However, Liverpool had the advantage of someone who has been associated with the club for 40 years, is loved by the fans, knows the club inside out, and was already actually working there when they brought him back.
We would not have had such an obvious candidate to turn to, so it wouldn't necessarily have been as smooth for us.
Yes but if it hadn't worked out, people would have said that he hadn't managed for ten years, and was a relative failure at both Newcastle and Celtic.
True, but whether a success or failiure we didn't have that logical and fan favourite choice waiting in the wings if Randy pulled the trigger. Which is why I think we were right to stick with Gezza and then look at it again in the summer.
-
After last summers fiasco (long wait etc.) and the way this season has turned out, I think Randy will have to concede looking at employed managers. There is a reason why some managers are not in a job or working in other areas of the game. I don't think he'll want a repeat of this season.
I certainly hope so.
Going for a manager already in a job doesn't have to be a nasty affair as long as it's done in the right way, which I would trust Randy to do.
-
Above anything else, we will need a manager who is hungry, who feels he has something to prove, who can transfer his desire to the players and one who doesn't have to be asked more than once to manage Aston Villa.
Although Dalgleish has returned to Anfield for a second spell, he has gone on record that he feels that he still has a lot to prove and it's this that fuels his desire for the job.
-
Spot on Nev. With MON I always felt he thought we should be grateful for having the great MON as our manager. I want someone to have that sort of desire to make us great, not themselves.
-
I'd love to know why anyone would think Rijkaard's not good enough for us. Not that I think for a second he'd come here but a former manager of the most glamorous if not the biggest club in the world? It would be our Gullit moment - the whole of football would take note.
-
I'd love to know why anyone would think Rijkaard's not good enough for us. Not that I think for a second he'd come here but a former manager of the most glamorous if not the biggest club in the world? It would be our Gullit moment - the whole of football would take note.
Agreed. He was hotly tipped to take over from Hodgson at Liverpool and I'd certainly have him at Villa Park. He's the sort of name Spurs will be looking to if/when Redknapp takes the England job.
-
I'd love to know why anyone would think Rijkaard's not good enough for us. Not that I think for a second he'd come here but a former manager of the most glamorous if not the biggest club in the world? It would be our Gullit moment - the whole of football would take note.
Agreed. He was hotly tipped to take over from Hodgson at Liverpool and I'd certainly have him at Villa Park. He's the sort of name Spurs will be looking to if/when Redknapp takes the England job.
Plus.
If he wasn't happy with Gabby's work rate, he could gob on him.
-
Rijkaerd would lift the profile of the club and attract quality players , his record as a player and manager commands respect- if true I'd be happy with him as a manager, I take it we could rule out rudi voller as his assistant!
-
I'd love Rijkaard to be our next manager; one of my all-time favourite players and yes, the kind of coach who would get Europe talking about Aston Villa.
-
Just had a little google and Rijkaard had a formal agreement in March this year you join Sporting, should Dias Ferreira win the Sporting presidency elections. He lost.
If Rijkaard was willing to join Sporting, I'm more than certain he'd be willing to take over at Villa, should the job become vacant. I hope this summer the club have learned a lesson and have a contingency plan in place. He would certainly fit in with Paul Faulkner's recent quote about the "Ajax model" too.
-
Rijkaard, yes, certainly. But whoever it is, here's a list of managers we shouldn't want to see at Villa Park, posted by, erm, some fool.
http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/mcclaren-benitez-and-other-managers-i-dont-want-at-aston-villa/
-
Rijkaard died in the mid 80s, it's actually Phil Lynott. And he still managed to win silverware.
-
Rijkaard died in the mid 80s, it's actually Phil Lynott. And he still managed to win silverware.
My Missus will be pleased that Phil is still around, she's a Thin lizzy fanatic.
-
Rijkaard died in the mid 80s, it's actually Phil Lynott. And he still managed to win silverware.
Don't believe a word.
-
Rijkaard, yes, certainly. But whoever it is, here's a list of managers we shouldn't want to see at Villa Park, posted by, erm, some fool.
http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/mcclaren-benitez-and-other-managers-i-dont-want-at-aston-villa/
[/quoteRijkaard, yes, certainly. But whoever it is, here's a list of managers we shouldn't want to see at Villa Park, posted by, erm, some fool.
http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/mcclaren-benitez-and-other-managers-i-dont-want-at-aston-villa/
good article...i particularly liked the bollock reference. I did have to deal with some of the jockeys spunking on the comments section though....
-
But whoever it is, here's a list of managers we shouldn't want to see at Villa Park, posted by, erm, some fool.
Bloody hell, I always wondered what happened to him and all the time there he was in front of me. I guess it's understandable as he never used to post the type of bollocks he posts now. (winky)
-
I like this summation:
Martin O’Neill
Ruthless litigator O’Neill has been known to sue media outlets that dare besmirch his carefully crafted image. So in no way could it be stated that his resignation from Villa five days before the start of the season was timed to cause maximum disruption. It’s possibly fair to say that he reached his level at Aston Villa, is tactically limited and probably incapable of going much further as a manager. But it would be wholly inaccurate and unacceptable to suggest that his head resembles a shaved testicle that has been dipped in glue, dabbed in the wispy pile of shorn pubes and finished off with a pair of nerdy glasses.
-
yep Rafa he is the man, spent hundreds of millions converting a top team into a mediocre team, look at his transfers over the last 4 years, look at how much he spent, he left lpool in as bad a position that MON left us.
Is that why they're 5th and we're 14th?
It's all about getting the right manager, and Kenny's the right manager. His record in English football is pretty impressive.
So is Howard Kendall's, should we bring him in as manager?
-
I like this summation:
Martin O’Neill
But it would be wholly inaccurate and unacceptable to suggest that his head resembles a shaved testicle that has been dipped in glue, dabbed in the wispy pile of shorn pubes and finished off with a pair of nerdy glasses.
I think that is 'wholly inaccurate' as judging from recent TV appearances, it looks like Martin has spent his well earned and had a hair transplant. It suits him, as does the colour. I'm half expecting him to have a ponytail come the new season.
-
Wiggy.
-
yep Rafa he is the man, spent hundreds of millions converting a top team into a mediocre team, look at his transfers over the last 4 years, look at how much he spent, he left lpool in as bad a position that MON left us.
Is that why they're 5th and we're 14th?
It's all about getting the right manager, and Kenny's the right manager. His record in English football is pretty impressive.
So is Howard Kendall's, should we bring him in as manager?
Alright mardy-bum!
I didn't realise it was such a controversial post.
-
Rijkaard's managerial record:
- Euro 2000 semi-finals with Holland
- 1 yr at Sparta Rotterdam: relegated
- Barcelona - after a stuttering start, 2 league titles in subsequent years, champions league, then a bit of a fall away
- Galatasaray - finished 3rd last year, currently 12th (!!)
My take on him is that his record suggests he can inspire and work well with very talented players; but with less quality he does seem to have struggled quite badly. I'd be pretty worried we'd fare similarly. How the fuck do you take Gala to 12 place in Turkey?
-
You could argue that Liverpool sacked their manager and got a new bloke in at just about the right time, and look how they've done, so maybe we should have done the same.
However, Liverpool had the advantage of someone who has been associated with the club for 40 years, is loved by the fans, knows the club inside out, and was already actually working there when they brought him back.
We would not have had such an obvious candidate to turn to, so it wouldn't necessarily have been as smooth for us.
Yes but if it hadn't worked out, people would have said that he hadn't managed for ten years, and was a relative failure at both Newcastle and Celtic.
True, but whether a success or failiure we didn't have that logical and fan favourite choice waiting in the wings if Randy pulled the trigger. Which is why I think we were right to stick with Gezza and then look at it again in the summer.
It didn't need to be a fan favourite, it just needed to be somebody better than Houllier.
-
Rijkaard, yes, certainly. But whoever it is, here's a list of managers we shouldn't want to see at Villa Park, posted by, erm, some fool.
http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/mcclaren-benitez-and-other-managers-i-dont-want-at-aston-villa/
Cracking article, very funny.
-
Rijkaard's managerial record:
- Euro 2000 semi-finals with Holland
- 1 yr at Sparta Rotterdam: relegated
- Barcelona - after a stuttering start, 2 league titles in subsequent years, champions league, then a bit of a fall away
- Galatasaray - finished 3rd last year, currently 12th (!!)
My take on him is that his record suggests he can inspire and work well with very talented players; but with less quality he does seem to have struggled quite badly. I'd be pretty worried we'd fare similarly. How the fuck do you take Gala to 12 place in Turkey?
So he does better with better players? Isnt that kind of obvious though?
I think the answer is to get him some of these talented players and then... 'appy days!
His record in Turkey is a curious one but not one I'd lose sleep over. Maybe the arid climate made his mouth dry and upset him.
He likes a good spit after all. In Birmingham as well as a moist climate he will be never more than a few yards away from a fast food outlet, newsagents or public house to wet his whistle.
-
Spot on Nev. With MON I always felt he thought we should be grateful for having the great MON as our manager. I want someone to have that sort of desire to make us great, not themselves.
Sounds like you've just described Lambert to me.
-
But whoever it is, here's a list of managers we shouldn't want to see at Villa Park, posted by, erm, some fool.
Bloody hell, I always wondered what happened to him and all the time there he was in front of me. I guess it's understandable as he never used to post the type of bollocks he posts now. (winky)
I was behind you. And you're quite wrong, as I've always posted bollocks on here.
And thanks, Villadawg, it's appreciated.
-
I realize that there will always be someone who is strongly against one candidate, perhaps because they think the person in question will be another MON (Benitez wants complete control over everything) or because they think he'll be another MON (Moyes like to play boring kick and rush). Still the likeliest candidates this time around seem to be of better quality than what was on offer last August, even if the likes of Rijkaard, Van Gaal and Hiddink are still out of reach.
-
But whoever it is, here's a list of managers we shouldn't want to see at Villa Park, posted by, erm, some fool.
Bloody hell, I always wondered what happened to him and all the time there he was in front of me. I guess it's understandable as he never used to post the type of bollocks he posts now. (winky)
I was behind you. And you're quite wrong, as I've always posted bollocks on here.
Sure but before you were funny, now you're just a miserable old cnut. I'm torn between you and Risso with my vote on H&V's Drama Queen of the Season Award.
-
But whoever it is, here's a list of managers we shouldn't want to see at Villa Park, posted by, erm, some fool.
Bloody hell, I always wondered what happened to him and all the time there he was in front of me. I guess it's understandable as he never used to post the type of bollocks he posts now. (winky)
I was behind you. And you're quite wrong, as I've always posted bollocks on here.
Sure but before you were funny, now you're just a miserable old cnut. I'm torn between you and Risso with my vote on H&V's Drama Queen of the Season Award.
Nice of you to say so, do I get a crown if I win?
-
Who ever we take as the next manager has to be someone that has a real desire to take this club to its full potential, i dont want "this is a massive club and i am priviliged to be manager" i want a manager to say "there is no limit to what this club can achieve"
-
Who ever we take as the next manager has to be someone that has a real desire to take this club to its full potential, i dont want "this is a massive club and i am priviliged to be manager" i want a manager to say "there is no limit to what this club can achieve"
Unfortunately, good managers tend to be clever. And clever people tend to be careful to manage expectations.
-
But whoever it is, here's a list of managers we shouldn't want to see at Villa Park, posted by, erm, some fool.
Bloody hell, I always wondered what happened to him and all the time there he was in front of me. I guess it's understandable as he never used to post the type of bollocks he posts now. (winky)
I was behind you. And you're quite wrong, as I've always posted bollocks on here.
Sure but before you were funny, now you're just a miserable old cnut. I'm torn between you and Risso with my vote on H&V's Drama Queen of the Season Award.
Nice of you to say so, do I get a crown if I win?
Afraid not, the only prize is for all of next next season, the Mods with change your name to 'Jimbo the Drama Queen'. Don't build your hopes up too much, the bookies have Risso down as clear favourite but there's still two games left so do your worst. You may have some serious competition on Sunday though.
-
... i want a manager to say "there is no limit to what this club can achieve"
What's Tommy Docherty doing nowadays?
-
But whoever it is, here's a list of managers we shouldn't want to see at Villa Park, posted by, erm, some fool.
Bloody hell, I always wondered what happened to him and all the time there he was in front of me. I guess it's understandable as he never used to post the type of bollocks he posts now. (winky)
I was behind you. And you're quite wrong, as I've always posted bollocks on here.
Sure but before you were funny, now you're just a miserable old cnut. I'm torn between you and Risso with my vote on H&V's Drama Queen of the Season Award.
Nice of you to say so, do I get a crown if I win?
Afraid not, the only prize is for all of next next season, the Mods with change your name to 'Jimbo the Drama Queen'. Don't build your hopes up too much, the bookies have Risso down as clear favourite but there's still two games left so do your worst. You may have some serious competition on Sunday though.
Outstanding. I haven't seen the ballot papers but there's a number of solid candidates this season. I have some other match day fainters in mind should there be a need for new suggestions. We shouldn't get them a crown. Maybe a tiara and some dainty slippers.
-
... i want a manager to say "there is no limit to what this club can achieve"
What's Tommy Docherty doing nowadays?
Who the fucking hell is he?
*nostalgic wink*
-
But whoever it is, here's a list of managers we shouldn't want to see at Villa Park, posted by, erm, some fool.
Bloody hell, I always wondered what happened to him and all the time there he was in front of me. I guess it's understandable as he never used to post the type of bollocks he posts now. (winky)
I was behind you. And you're quite wrong, as I've always posted bollocks on here.
Sure but before you were funny, now you're just a miserable old cnut. I'm torn between you and Risso with my vote on H&V's Drama Queen of the Season Award.
Nice of you to say so, do I get a crown if I win?
Afraid not, the only prize is for all of next next season, the Mods with change your name to 'Jimbo the Drama Queen'. Don't build your hopes up too much, the bookies have Risso down as clear favourite but there's still two games left so do your worst. You may have some serious competition on Sunday though.
Are you related to the Mark kelly who was one of Martin O'Neill's biggest critics?
In any case, I've mostly been avoiding the main forum as far from being a drama queen, I'm just not actually very arsed with all things Villa at the moment.
-
It's your Match thread posts that really make you stand out from the others. There's been some absolute belters on there.
As for MON, I tried desperately to keep an open mind right up until the final games of last season. Only then did I nail my colours to the mast, basically wanting him to get some help on the coaching side, as the football was so dull and I'd resigned myself to another season of him in charge. The only glimmer of hope was that he agreed that we needed to improve on the footballing side. After what he did last summer, I have no respect for him at all. None.
-
It's your Match thread posts that really make you stand out from the others. There's been some absolute belters on there.
As for MON, I tried desperately to keep an open mind right up until the final games of last season. Only then did I nail my colours to the mast, basically wanting him to get some help on the coaching side, as the football was so dull and I'd resigned myself to another season of him in charge. The only glimmer of hope was that he agreed that we needed to improve on the footballing side. After what he did last summer, I have no respect for him at all. None.
Yes, I do get excited on match threads, although I've been avoiding those too of late. It's sad, but I really just can't be bothered at the moment. I'm hoping for some exciting developments in the summer to reinvigorate my interest. I was also thinking about investing in a season ticket to encourage myself to try to get over for some more games, and letting someone on here have use of it when I then invariably fail to make it over.
-
Gus Poyet?
-
No, he can buy his own.
-
I've been told that the young lads are working their arses off at the moment to ensure Houllier's last comments in his note book are positive ones. 'Some' of the seniors still can't be arsed even with a new manager coming in.
Let's hope they're gone sooner than later, eh?
-
Do you know of a new manager Jack?
-
Paul the Villain - Poyet would be a good gamble actually. Convinced my wife has a thing for him mainly as she shushes me and is glued to the TV when he starts speaking, then chuckles due to not understanding ha wor he hath to sthay....
-
Mods - I don't wish to ruin the fun but should Jack not be taken undercover somewhat? Just to protect young Chris.
-
Paul the Villain - Poyet would be a good gamble actually. Convinced my wife has a thing for him mainly as she shushes me and is glued to the TV when he starts speaking, then chuckles due to not understanding ha wor he hath to sthay....
Blimey Ozz, Poyet looks like an extra from The Name of the Rose!
-
no offence meant here , but do people seriously think a young reserves cousin 1000s of miles away is seriously going to know who any new manager might be ?
even the top 1st team players would not know know until it happens!
my plumber who lives in the mailbox same block as reo coker and makoun was chatting to both this week and the players have no idea what is going to happen - they are all waiting as much as we are to find out.
as regards chris herd , i feel its a bit sad that things hes said in confidence are being bandied around on here and will reflect badly on him if the press start to get wind of things so id advise discretion jack.
-
My understanding is once the team is confirmed as mathematically safe from relegation the manager's position will be clarified.
-
My understanding is once the team is confirmed as mathematically safe from relegation the manager's position will be clarified.
Is this an ITK KV2, or just your feeling ?
-
Does GH's health suddenly improve then if we're safe? :0)
-
the quicker those seniors fo*k off the better for all of us...
-
I was told last night (from someone who was at a recent Villa Charity Golf day) That GH will need an operation later in the year and will quit Villa at the end of the season.
-
all this gossip and rumours will continue until the club make a decision - they know the medical history and therefore surely a decision needs to be made as soon as possible with so many contracts to be sorted out.
on another note where has wikivilla gone? ive been away in cyprus , have i missed anything?
-
Its a tricky one, and i can only see him retiring but i won't be celebrating that much because of the circumstances he's faced.
If he hadn't inherited a side is disarray both in morale and preperation for the season
If the squad hadn't been full of wasters and trouble makers
If the squad had been overhauled in the summer like it desperately needed.
If he hadn't picked up the worse injury list for donkey's years
If he hadn't been laid low for the last month
then i'd probably be wanting him out as soon as possible. As it is faced with so many things he had no control over, i'm prepared to give him the start of the season to put it right. IF, he's 100% fit.
-
no offence meant here , but do people seriously think a young reserves cousin 1000s of miles away is seriously going to know who any new manager might be ?
No offence taken, but when I did get the odd tidbit from behind the scenes, this is almost exactly how I got it.
So yes, it's very possible. They would at least hear more solid rumours than anybody outside the club.
-
all true greg , but he also made many fuck ups , the liverpool fiasco and man city cup game along with his choice of gary mac and i feel that even if his health wasnt a doubt then there would have to be serious questions asked about how the season has gone.
there have been many problems but gerard has contributed to the problems himself and a club of villas size and resources should not drop from top 6 to bottom 8 as we have done.
-
I agree he's made a lot mistakes, but still i think most teams would have struggled given whats happened off the pitch this season . Chelsea lost their coach and couldn't win for a month, we've had 4 managers.......
-
we were both vociferous in our wanting mon out greg, but i have some sympathy for ged and i feel he would be useful as a dof or on the board , but i really think the club needs a fresh younger approach at the moment and the likes of moyes , coyle or rijkaerd would be the sort of direction to go.
-
I feel the same really given the choice, but i still feel it could have worked out given a bit of time and luck
-
Talking sense greg.
-
The way I see it is some of the problems we have had may have been caused by him:-
Injury crisis - did the double training sessions he brought in contribute to that?
Player unrest - not an issue before so has he failed to be seen as the necessary authority figure to them?
But when you take all that away and look at the teams we have put out in certain games and the results that we have got from them, then it's hard to argue he's done anything other than fail, IMO.
-
Talking sense greg.
Now, take it easy Maz; this ain't the season of goodwill you know!
-
Yeah and the Titanic could have been a great Ocean Liner if it had not been fro that pesky iceberg.
The fact is, we had some bad luck and inept professionalism from some but still managed to compound this with poor tactics, poor team selection, poor formation, general disorganisation and attrocious PR skills.
So how about we do the simplest thing for a change - get rid of the of those inept players and management and start afresh.
-
Considering all these bizarre tactics etc we've a better record since Christmas than Man City and Spurs in the league.
-
The way I see it is some of the problems we have had may have been caused by him:-
Injury crisis - did the double training sessions he brought in contribute to that?
Player unrest - not an issue before so has he failed to be seen as the necessary authority figure to them?
But when you take all that away and look at the teams we have put out in certain games and the results that we have got from them, then it's hard to argue he's done anything other than fail, IMO.
I'm sorry, but that's a very narrow view of things with regards to injuries and player unrest. If the players couldn't hack the fitness regime then they clearly weren't fit in the first place, an allegation that can not fail to find its rather larger mark in the guise of players like Dunne. Secondly any player unrest is simply inexcusable given the salaries they are on, short of the manager being more fascist than Franco of course. If there was trouable in the ranks, and there clearly were, then I would say the players need to be far more accomodating for someone who has been appointed their manager. We have heard that the younger players were delighted with both the training and the new attitudes from the management to training and football tactics, whilst the older players were somewhat more reserved. Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Carew, Beye... I'm sorry, but for me Houllier had so much crap to deal with I think he gets a pass on some of the issues this year which were out of his control.
There have been mistakes by Houllier of course (Liverpool, Man City, too much change too quickly etc) but not everything has been his fault. I like him, if I'm honest, and if he hadn't have had his recent heart scare I was really looking forward to what changes he was going to make this summer. As it is, that looks an unlikely scenario.
-
If the players are playing up then yes, that's extremely unprofessional of them and they do not deserve the money they are on or the honour of playing for Aston Villa. However, when a new manager comes in his first job is to motivate the players and get them hungry for success and wanting to be part of his new era at the club. Gezza has failed to do that. A stronger personality in the dressing room, such as say David Moyes, wouldn't have seen the unrest we have had this season.
It's the players fault they did it, but the manager's that they thought they could get away with it.
-
Mods - I don't wish to ruin the fun but should Jack not be taken undercover somewhat? Just to protect young Chris.
Are you saying we should Jack off?
-
Just read Eastie's post from P39.
Can't quite work out whether he doesn't trust me because I'm 1000's of miles away or if he does trust me but doesn't like that I'm breaking confidence.
Sounds like a dick.
Am I allowed to say that? Ah well, I did, eh.
I came on to share a little bit more but fuck it if that's people's attitude.
-
Considering all these bizarre tactics etc we've a better record since Christmas than Man City and Spurs in the league.
But our run- in post Christmas looked to be pretty straight forward. We only had Manchester United out of the top teams to play.
-
Considering all these bizarre tactics etc we've a better record since Christmas than Man City and Spurs in the league.
But our run- in post Christmas looked to be pretty straight forward. We only had Manchester United out of the top teams to play.
But the way people go on about it on here you'd think we were the worst team in the league since Christmas.
-
Not a question of not trusting you jack, but telling a public forum what your cousin tells you in confidence is hardly doing chris any favours .
I was being polite and not sure that warrants your reply, just because you disagree you do not have to throw insults about at people.
-
To be fair he didn't call you a dick, just said you sounded like one! ;)
-
Considering all these bizarre tactics etc we've a better record since Christmas than Man City and Spurs in the league.
But our run- in post Christmas looked to be pretty straight forward. We only had Manchester United out of the top teams to play.
But the way people go on about it on here you'd think we were the worst team in the league since Christmas.
I know. But the performances have been shambolic.
There's only the Everton and West Ham matches where we played like anything towards our potential.
For the first time in 20 years I've been very disolusioned, and I had season tickets through DOL and Sir Graham Part Deux
-
It's easy enough to pick any particular segment of the season and use it to illustrate how good/bad we can be, but it's the run between game 1 and game 38 that is the only one that really counts.
In that's we'll be bottom half and on 40 something points, which is simply not good enough.
-
Considering all these bizarre tactics etc we've a better record since Christmas than Man City and Spurs in the league.
But our run- in post Christmas looked to be pretty straight forward. We only had Manchester United out of the top teams to play.
If that's true, then that's not bad at all. And I don't think you can split hairs about the difficulty of the games - we're looking at essentially half a season there, not a run of ten easy games.
-
Just read Eastie's post from P39.
Can't quite work out whether he doesn't trust me because I'm 1000's of miles away or if he does trust me but doesn't like that I'm breaking confidence.
Sounds like a dick.
Am I allowed to say that? Ah well, I did, eh.
I came on to share a little bit more but fuck it if that's people's attitude.
Jack, nobody is giving you any shit. Please, share what you know.
-
Considering all these bizarre tactics etc we've a better record since Christmas than Man City and Spurs in the league.
Eh? We've taken a point or 2 more than the likes of Wigan, west Ham and Blues since Christmas.
-
Since 25th December 2010
1 Manchester United 20 13 3 4 37 18 19 42
2 Chelsea 19 12 3 4 36 18 18 39
3 Liverpool 19 11 3 5 38 19 19 36
4 Arsenal 19 9 8 2 35 20 15 35
5 Manchester City 18 10 3 5 30 18 12 33
6 Everton 18 8 6 4 30 23 7 30
7 Fulham 19 8 5 6 29 21 8 29
8 Tottenham Hotspur 19 7 8 4 26 23 3 29
9 Stoke City 19 7 4 8 25 22 3 25
10 Newcastle United 19 5 7 7 24 26 -2 22
11 Aston Villa 19 5 7 7 26 30 -4 22
12 Wolverhampton Wndrs 19 6 4 9 23 32 -9 22
13 Bolton Wanderers 18 6 2 10 19 25 -6 20
14 West Ham United 18 5 5 8 25 33 -8 20
15 West Bromwich Albion 19 5 6 8 28 39 -11 21
16 Birmingham City 19 5 6 8 19 34 -15 21
17 Wigan Athletic 19 4 8 7 23 31 -8 20
18 Blackburn Rovers 18 4 5 9 19 28 -9 17
19 Sunderland 18 5 2 11 20 35 -15 17
20 Blackpool 20 3 5 12 25 42 -17 14
-
He doesn't mean Christmas he must mean since Kenny Dalglish took charge at Liverpool which was January 19th.
Illustrates the effect of the 'Bent Bounce' more than anything to me.
What is our record over Houllier's (and I guess McAllister's) time in charge?
-
He doesn't mean Christmas he must mean since Kenny Dalglish took charge at Liverpool which was January 19th.
Illustrates the effect of the 'Bent Bounce' more than anything to me.
What is our record over Houllier's (and I guess McAllister's) time in charge?
1 Manchester United 31 19 8 4 59 27 32 65
2 Manchester City 31 17 6 8 49 31 18 57
3 Arsenal 31 16 8 7 55 35 20 56
4 Chelsea 31 16 7 8 46 29 17 55
5 Liverpool 31 16 5 10 55 34 21 53
6 Everton 31 12 13 6 46 37 9 49
7 Tottenham Hotspur 31 12 12 7 45 41 4 48
8 Stoke City 31 12 6 13 41 36 5 42
9 Bolton Wanderers 31 11 7 13 42 42 0 40
10 Fulham 31 9 11 11 38 35 3 38
11 Sunderland 31 10 8 13 36 48 -12 38
12 Newcastle United 31 9 10 12 43 46 -3 37
13 West Bromwich Albion 31 9 9 13 47 59 -12 36
14 Aston Villa 31 8 11 12 39 49 -10 35
15 Blackburn Rovers 31 9 7 15 37 50 -13 34
16 Birmingham City 31 7 12 12 29 46 -17 33
17 Wigan Athletic 31 6 14 11 34 46 -12 32
18 West Ham United 31 7 11 13 38 51 -13 32
19 Wolverhampton Wndrs 31 9 5 17 35 54 -19 32
20 Blackpool 31 7 8 16 41 59 -18 29
Includes the Wolves away win before they started making changes.
Taken from Statto Custom Table - Clicky (http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2010-2011/custom-table) where you can put in any date range.
-
Whatever way you wrap it up, and from whchever point of the season you analyse it from the answer remains the same.
We have been shit.
-
Just read Eastie's post from P39.
Can't quite work out whether he doesn't trust me because I'm 1000's of miles away or if he does trust me but doesn't like that I'm breaking confidence.
Sounds like a dick.
Am I allowed to say that? Ah well, I did, eh.
I came on to share a little bit more but fuck it if that's people's attitude.
don't wory Jack. It's natural for people to be sceptical if you say you are related to one of the players. Plus this lot can be a miserable bunch even when things are going well. Just our nature to be honest. If you have any other little snippets then drop in anytime.
-
I have total sympathy for Houllier. But things have not worked out for him and this is now compounded by this current health scare. He cannot be allowed to carry on as his life is at risk. I hope Randy and his team are scouring the planet to replace him and have a wow factor manager in talks as Houlliers replacement ............
-
Agreed ww, and let's hope it's sorted quick as there is a lot of transfers activity needed this summer.
-
As someone pointed out on a thread previously.
Have there ever been as many players in one squad who we've actively disliked?
-
GED back for the Liverpool game ?
Well, he would be, wouldn't he.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_6931026,00.html
-
According to mirror website breaking news carrying several quotes it seems houllier is very much on the mend and from Gary macs quotes it looks like GED will be staying on as manager, can't copy and paste the article as I'm on iPod but would be grateful if somebody did.
-
Houllier coming back for the Liverpool match kind of sums up the irony of how Villa fans percieve him. He has never been taken seriously as an Aston Villa manager. Wish him all the best health wise. But we have to get rid and bring in a fresh younger manager who will install passion amongst players and fans ......
-
According to mirror website breaking news carrying several quotes it seems houllier is very much on the mend and from Gary macs quotes it looks like GED will be staying on as manager,
If true - Insanity.
-
Maybe it's time for randy to have a friendly word and make the decision on footballing reasons , although I guess given the circumstances it may seem callous to terminate his contract if GED wishes to stay in the job?
-
Just read Eastie's post from P39.
Can't quite work out whether he doesn't trust me because I'm 1000's of miles away or if he does trust me but doesn't like that I'm breaking confidence.
Sounds like a dick.
Am I allowed to say that? Ah well, I did, eh.
I came on to share a little bit more but fuck it if that's people's attitude.
Never mind Jack. He pays his plumber so much he can afford to live in the same block as two of our senior players...
-
Gerard Houllier could make an emotional return for Aston Villa's final match of the season at home to Liverpool next Sunday.
Villa manager Houllier was admitted to Birmingham's Queen Elizabeth hospital on April 20 suffering with a heart problem, and discharged nine days later.
However, given Houllier's health history as he underwent open-heart surgery nine and a half years ago, there has been speculation over whether he will return to the helm at all.
Assistant manager Gary McAllister, who has served as caretaker for Villa's last three matches and will do so again for Sunday's trip to Arsenal, today confirmed Houllier was on the mend and could be at Villa Park for the game with his former club.
Gerard is very good. I've seen quite a bit of him this week, and I've been speaking to him a great deal," said McAllister
"I've been over and we ventured out and had a bit of lunch. He's up and about, certainly more free around the house, so he's good.
"There have been loads of conversations with (chief executive) Paul Faulkner, myself, getting on with things, preparing for next year."
Asked about the possibility of being around for the club's end-of- season showdown with the Reds, McAllister added: "He won't be in the dugout, but there might be a visit of such.
"Maybe there is a chance of it, although it's something we've not spoken about."
This week defender Luke Young voiced his concerns regarding the prospect of a summer of uncertainty at Villa Park should Houllier's absence be indefinite.
Dismissing such a possibility, McAllister said: "I can dispel that. Absolutely.
"Apart from not being fit enough to take training, he is certainly fit enough to be getting on with the business side of things, which you would do in the office after a training session.
"Every indication I've got from speaking to Gerard, how positive he is in his own mind and from all the things we've chatted about, is he is eager to go into the summer prepared for pre-season.
"As you can imagine there's quite a lot of work to be done. That's a fact.
"When you come to this end of the season, as much as people think it's a winding down for the club, there is a lot of preparation and stuff that needs to be set in place for next season.
"That entails people who are in our plans, and those who are not, people whose contracts we want to extend, those who are coming up to certain lengths of the contract they have left.
"So there are certainly a few things that need to be ironed out."
think for everybody there will be a definite decision, but every indication from Gerard is that we are getting on with what we need to get on with at this moment in time," added McAllister.
One of the players Houllier and McAllister are looking to retain is veteran goalkeeper Brad Friedel, who turns 40 next Wednesday.
American Friedel has played every league game since joining Villa in July 2008 from Blackburn for £2million.
"I don't know if there are other clubs interested, but there have been discussions and a contract offer made to Brad," said McAllister.
"He's had a fantastic season, no doubt about that, but everybody is aware of his age, and it's something we've got to be looking at as well.
"But he's played the part of the experienced player very well."
McAllister heads to the Emirates Stadium without defender Ciaran Clark due to a niggly hamstring problem, but with midfielder Jean Makoun available after missing the last two games with a dead leg.
-
Of course I'm glad he's getting better but I really think a clean sweep is required here. This season has been an absolute nightmare and I can't see things improving any time soon.
-
How about this:
Houllier comes back to a packed Villa Park. Both sets of supporters cheer him on and celebrate his good health as we romp to a convincing 3-0 victory. At the post game conference he announces that he will be standing down.
-
I'm not sure what's depressed me more. Gmac talking as if he's going to be here next season or GMac talking about next season and completley forgetting we've still got two games left to go.
Either way i'm depressed.
-
How about this:
Houllier comes back to a packed Villa Park. Both sets of supporters cheer him on and celebrate his good health as we romp to a convincing 3-0 victory. At the post game conference he announces that he will be standing down.
Bit early to start on the cooking Sherry isn't it old chap?
-
A nice way to go bentman but from gary macs quotes it seems that they are already planning for next season and houllier is looking ahead to it- would randy dismiss him after his illness ?
-
A nice way to go bentman but from gary macs quotes it seems that they are already planning for next season and houllier is looking ahead to it- would randy dismiss him after his illness ?
Yes he should. He's fallen ill twice now so there's no reason to think that it could'nt happen again.
-
A nice way to go bentman but from gary macs quotes it seems that they are already planning for next season and houllier is looking ahead to it- would randy dismiss him after his illness ?
Randy has no choice, He has to make the move as Houllier's health is not up to it
-
Using the custom table link provided on the page before I decided to see the results between signing Bent and Houllier being admitted to hospital.
Over 11 games we picked up 18 points which sits us in 7th place for that period.
It's easy to say if you can cherry pick a date range it's easy to prove anything but the fact of the matter is, since he's been able to spend any money the results had been very good and we had started to look a good side again but then he had his health problems and Gary Mac has proven once again why he has failed in every management job he's had.
To go back a few pages I'd say the injury problems are actually the fault of the previous management team. All summer we looked like a side ill-prepared by a manager who had lost interest. Adrenaline then saw us through in a game against a very poor west ham side with a goalkeeper who looked like he'd rather be anywhere else than on a football pitch, the next 4-5 games then gave a much more accurate picture of where we were.
So then do you accept that the players are just going to be short of fitness all season or do you implement a much tougher schedule and hope they handle it? Not an easy call but houllier is well known for liking his teams to be fit and strong so I think he only saw one option.
The player unrest then probably stemmed from the fact that a bunch of older players took offence at being told that they were lazy and unfit and that they needed to put the effort in to be capable of getting through the season rather than hitting a wall in march.
To me, if his health is up to it, the preference would be another transfer window under houllier with a new assistant and then review things in late november/early december. If we're not top 8 and looking likely to progress then look elsewhere.
-
For the love of Christ Geddy do not come back for the Liverpool game!
It will be bad enough to see him here next year but if he comes back to a heroes welcome from them lot while we can still be technically relegated would be an absolute joke.
(Love him or hate him, a bloke whose heart has torn open twice, shouldn't really be in a high pressure job. Even if the Doc's do give him the all clear, they did so a couple of years ago and it happened again. The man isn't fit enough to be our manager, that can't be argued with)
-
Houllier back for the Liverpool game.
Villa thrash Liverpool, Young signs new contract. Villa spend £40 mil in the summer and qualify for champions league. Liverpool get relegated.
Houllier hangs on as manager, Young leaves, Villa sign the modern day french equivalent of Callaghan and Cascarino. Houllier decides to retire 5 days before the start of next season. Villa in turmoil........again.
mmmm.........
-
It'll be nice for Gerard to be back for the Liverpool game, even if in the crowd. He'll have to go undercover, though, and not celebrate when Liverpool score. It's always a problem when we play that lot.
-
He'll be back for the 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' game. And why wouldn't he, it's the 2nd biggest highlight of his season.
-
'''
To go back a few pages I'd say the injury problems are actually the fault of the previous management team. All summer we looked like a side ill-prepared by a manager who had lost interest. Adrenaline then saw us through in a game against a very poor west ham side with a goalkeeper who looked like he'd rather be anywhere else than on a football pitch, the next 4-5 games then gave a much more accurate picture of where we were....
5th place in the league on 10 points, which was more or less a continuation of the previous 3 seasons of top 6 form.
-
The idea that we could risk another season based on uncertainty, lack of direction and a Manager with serious medical problems is ludicrous.
We are now a very long way from competing at the top end of the table. It will take at least 2 seasons, a new management team and serious investment in the squad to get us any where near the top 6. The rebuilding of the squad, our status and moral has to start as soon as the season ends.
-
Obviously no-one took my earlier comments seriously as the debate as to whether Houllier will be at Villa or not rages on.
You probably won't take it seriously then when I say that we may well have the same number of Spaniards at Villa next season...just a different one to what we have now.
-
Obviously no-one took my earlier comments seriously as the debate as to whether Houllier will be at Villa or not rages on.
You probably won't take it seriously then when I say that we may well have the same number of Spaniards at Villa next season...just a different one to what we have now.
Jack, being honest here, and no disrespect to you whatsoever, but it's hard to know what to believe anymore. I'm sure your Chris offers you good info, but even he might be going on what he's heard (no pun intended), rather than what he knows 100%. Let's wait and see eh?
-
I missed Jack Herd's original post. What was the news/ message/ rumour?
-
If Jacks hints are correct, then for the first time in my living history I will actually detest our new manager at the beginning of his tenure. I've gone off plenty after a while in charge, but never from the start!
I'm not looking forward to the summer :-(
-
If Jacks hints are correct, then for the first time in my living history I will actually detest our new manager at the beginning of his tenure. I've gone off plenty after a while in charge, but never from the start!
I'm not looking forward to the summer :-(
Benitez then?
-
GED back for the Liverpool game ?
Well, he would be, wouldn't he.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_6931026,00.html
Not surprised at all. I've known plenty of people who have dragged themselves out of their sick bed in order to get to see their favourite team play.
-
If Jacks hints are correct, then for the first time in my living history I will actually detest our new manager at the beginning of his tenure. I've gone off plenty after a while in charge, but never from the start!
I'm not looking forward to the summer :-(
Benitez then?
It's what I'd assume.
-
And we're selling Cuellar?
-
And we're selling Cuellar?
And buying Fabregas?
-
According to the Daily Mail, "indications from sources close to the Villa manager’s family are that his wife, Isabel, is set against his return".
-
Is anyone going to tell Jack that Houllier is a Frenchman?
-
GED back for the Liverpool game ?
Well, he would be, wouldn't he.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_6931026,00.html
Not surprised at all. I've known plenty of people who have dragged themselves out of their sick bed in order to get to see their favourite team play.
Not a good idea at all, turning the attention in our final game of the season on our opponents and their former manager and given a heavy defeat the reaction of our own support could turn somewhat negative towards the manager which will reflect badly on the club given the circumstances.
I think it would be best if he stayed away, a shame I know but his actions at Anfield would eventually come back and bite him on the arse and this is it.
-
If Jacks hints are correct, then for the first time in my living history I will actually detest our new manager at the beginning of his tenure. I've gone off plenty after a while in charge, but never from the start!
I'm not looking forward to the summer :-(
So you don't want pep guardiola at villa park next season?
-
I do think he'll end up going, and I think they'll make a decision sharpish after the Liverpool game.
Looking at the league table, it's really been a shocking season. But if we'd managed to hang on to just 8 of the 26 points we've dropped from leading positions, we'd be 8th. Ifs, buts and maybes of course, and indicative of some genuine issues not just bad luck. But I also note we've used more players - along with West Ham - than any other side, predominantly due to injuries. Last year, we used fewest I believe.
There are some significant changes needed. But as long as:
- we hang on to Bent and Downing (and NRC in my view given financial constraints)
- do some rigorous work to sort the defence out. This means 2 or 3 new players, but more than anything work on the training ground.
- we can rely on 2 or 3 of the youngsters next yr to play 20+ games (probably Albrighton, Delph and Clark)
- and we buy soundly - an attacking replacement for Young, good players in defence, and ideally a centre midfielder
With the right manager there's absolutely no reason we can' be top 8, if not top 6, next year.
-
If Houllier doesnt leave. OR we replace him with Benitez then I think my season tickets going back. It's cost me 5k this season following the lads home and away week in-week out. I can't be insulted anymore. Sometimes you think they're taking the piss out of you with decisions like this.
AND it will prove the board are not listening to the supporters!!!!!
-
Considering all these bizarre tactics etc we've a better record since Christmas than Man City and Spurs in the league.
Eh? We've taken a point or 2 more than the likes of Wigan, west Ham and Blues since Christmas.
Apologies, the table I'd looked at was the one since Kenny Dalgliesh had taken over from Hodgson.
-
There are some significant changes needed. But as long as:
- we hang on to Bent and Downing (and NRC in my view given financial constraints)
- do some rigorous work to sort the defence out. This means 2 or 3 new players, but more than anything work on the training ground.
- we can rely on 2 or 3 of the youngsters next yr to play 20+ games (probably Albrighton, Delph and Clark)
- and we buy soundly - an attacking replacement for Young, good players in defence, and ideally a centre midfielder
With the right manager there's absolutely no reason we can' be top 8, if not top 6, next year.
I think we could afford to let NRC go, with regards to the defence, we have Cuellar and Warnock who would strenghthen the back four if given the chance. I think Clark, Delph, Bannan and Albrighton will all be pushing for that first team, Albrighton possibly a regular if Ashley goes, and to be honest I think both Bannan and Delph would be an improvement on NRC, I dont really see what he brings to the table, and if he goes that is another big earner off the wage bill. Maybe Im putting to much faith in the youth, who knows?
-
Is anyone going to tell Jack that Houllier is a Frenchman?
Don't know, is anyone going to tell Villadawg that it could be Cuellar going and another Spaniard coming in - Puyol, Xavi or Iniesta maybe?
-
Just for you Villadawg, the table I was talking about (as provided by Opta the official stats of the Premier League) - this was correct after the Liverpool game on Monday night -
(http://twitpic.com/show/full/4vmqkz)
-
Gerard to attend Liverpool game? Great a proper goodbye would be nice. Thanks for your attempt Mr Houllier but it didn't really work out for us. Enjoy your money.
Gerard Houllier could make a surprise appearance in the stadium at Aston Villa's final match of the season at home to Liverpool.
Full story: The Independent
-
edit - Ignore me.
-
I'm sure the Dr Jo comparisons have already been made but it does feel just like that for me. GH has come in, tried to change things, brought in his own ideas and for whatever reason it's not worked.
Randy like Doug hopefully realises this and asks Doug if he can borrow his back garden to take Gerard for a walk round to break the news. Not nice in the circumstances i suppose, but now we know GH is on the mend, it's time to put the club first.
-
I remember someone saying when we appointed le Gaffeur that he signed a one year contract so that both the club and him could see if it was going to work.
I hope that was true as this would be a very easy way to say, thanks but no thanks.
On the other hand, if Randy thinks le Gaffeur is still the man for the job we're in a whole heap of trouble!
-
Gary McAllister was a fine footballer but every single utterance from him since he came to Villa Park have made me shudder. I can only imagine what he is like on the training ground with his defending set pieces routines.
-
I wouldnt risk Ged at the Liverpool game , his heart wouldnt take it especially If his beloved 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' are losing.
Spainard coming in ? Roberto Martínez then.
-
Gerard to attend Liverpool game? Great a proper goodbye would be nice. Thanks for your attempt Mr Houllier but it didn't really work out for us. Enjoy your money.
Gerard Houllier could make a surprise appearance in the stadium at Aston Villa's final match of the season at home to Liverpool.
Full story: The Independent
It would be nice but the focus would be on Liverpool and Houlier and we would come a long way second. Maybe I'm a bit too sensitive but I find that sort of thing rather humiliating, almost a sort of cuckolding.
-
from what i read from an articel on newsnow, mcallister is talking about houllier planning for next season...
on the plus side, it sounded like houllier wants his business done very early, to bring everyone into pre season, which will make a nice change...
have to look for the plus signs...
-
I cannot seriously believe todays reports that Houllier may attend the Livepool game.
After novemeber !!!!!
Unbelievable !
Well all I will say (and have said it to the General) if he does, and it goes tits up and we lose and he starts waving to the Liverpool fans again.
He / the board / and his management team will deserve everything they get !
-
I cannot seriously believe todays reports that Houllier may attend the Livepool game.
After novemeber !!!!!
Unbelievable !
Well all I will say (and have said it to the General) if he does, and it goes tits up and we lose and he starts waving to the Liverpool fans again.
He / the board / and his management team will deserve everything they get !
I agree - How fucking DARE an Aston Villa manager attend an Aston Villa match. What a ****** he is for doing that.
-
Well all I will say (and have said it to the General) if he does, and it goes tits up and we lose and he starts waving to the Liverpool fans again.
He / the board / and his management team will deserve everything they get !
That's the spirit. You tell him.
-
I cannot seriously believe todays reports that Houllier may attend the Livepool game.
After novemeber !!!!!
Unbelievable !
Well all I will say (and have said it to the General) if he does, and it goes tits up and we lose and he starts waving to the Liverpool fans again.
He / the board / and his management team will deserve everything they get !
I agree - How fucking DARE an Aston Villa manager attend an Aston Villa match. What a c*** he is for doing that.
I predicted this weeks ago and if it were any other game it wouldn't be a problem, but he is not attending as a Villa manager, but as a Villa manager AND former Liverpool manager and it's the latter that will take all the attention. Given the circumstances, his behaviour at Anfield and the very poor season we have experienced with him at the helm, his presence, for me at least, would be ill-advised. Further more, it could show us in a negative light were the result to go against us and the crowd show their displeasure and I put Villa before Houllier, Liverpool, the media or anything else.
-
So you're saying that whilst he is employed as Aston Villa manager he shouldn't attend any game where we are playing Liverpool?
-
Our manager shouldn't attend a game because he used to manage the opposition and some of our supporters won't like it.That won't make us look smalltime at all.
-
They are quite right though Dave, it would be a conflict of interest.
Darren Bent is an Arsenal fan so it's only right that he doesn't play tomorrow either.
-
So you're saying that whilst he is employed as Aston Villa manager he shouldn't attend any game where we are playing Liverpool?
Certainly not, but given the rather unique set of circumstances, in this instance it may not be good for Aston Villa.
-
The sub-plot to everything McAllister says, is that as long as Houllier stays, so does he. He knows that if GH leaves, he follows him out the door.
I wish he would just shut up.
-
So you're saying that whilst he is employed as Aston Villa manager he shouldn't attend any game where we are playing Liverpool?
Certainly not, but given the rather unique set of circumstances, in this instance it may not be good for Aston Villa.
Why not? He's employed as manager of Aston Villa, and although may not be fit enough to be in the dugout he should still be able to attend the match and see what is happening.
-
But will he join in the Lap of Honour?
-
So you're saying that whilst he is employed as Aston Villa manager he shouldn't attend any game where we are playing Liverpool?
Certainly not, but given the rather unique set of circumstances, in this instance it may not be good for Aston Villa.
I fail to see how it can be good for Aston Villa that our manager is told to stay away from a match.
-
Do us a favour.
This isnt any other "Villa game" - dont you think it is a bloody co-incidence it is against Liverpool ?
AND
He isnt attending as Villa manager - he will be sitting in the stands !
So, come on, what is the point ! - it could be an absolute nightmare.
Get this.
A totally innocent situation. that could happen. We are getting beat heavily. Gerard has sat there in silence for the whole match - however, the big screen pans on him on a moment he is smiling.
Everyone in and out the ground will be saying "Look at him, he is happy his beloved team are winning.
It is a PA disaster - and it doesn't surprise me, coz this season has been one media cock up after the other.
There is NO POINT him being there next Sunday - he will have no influence on the game what-so-ever - why on earth would the club and he risk a total pa meltdown.
This club is a laughing stock at the moment and they seem to want to make it worse
-
The only people making us a laughing stock are our own supporters.
-
The only people making us a laughing stock are our own supporters.
Yes.
-
So you're saying that whilst he is employed as Aston Villa manager he shouldn't attend any game where we are playing Liverpool?
Certainly not, but given the rather unique set of circumstances, in this instance it may not be good for Aston Villa.
I fail to see how it can be good for Aston Villa that our manager is told to stay away from a match.
One would hope that any such "arrangement" would not be in the public domain. The ideal solution is for Houllier to attend the match tomorrow and then the spotlight would be off somewhat were he to appear at Villa Park, but he may not be up to it health wise.
You know what our crowds are like, a heavy defeat could end up with some vocal criticism spun as "Villa fans boo sick OAP".
-
How do you work that out Dave ?
Things that have made NATIONAL media this year
Liverpool love in - supporters - no
Man City youth team - supporters - no
Home kit not being released - supporters - no
Pulling out of Olympic bid - supporters - no
Players fighting on a "bonding session" - supporters - no
Players slagging off management on TV (Ireland and others) - supporters - no
Management slagging off players on TV (GH on Carew / Warnock and others) - ng supporters - no
Players coming out in press saying this season is a waste - supporters - no
Being dumped out the cup by Bluenoses - supporters - no
Listen - I could go on and on - there have been many many other things - but I cannot think of ONE thing the supporters have done this year that would be considered embarrassing - so tell me - why are we an embarrassment ?
-
In a way, Houllier being there, waving to the Liverpool fans after we get a good tonking would be a fitting end to the season.
-
I'd rather Houllier was at the game than you were Holtepaul.
-
I'd rather Houllier was at the game than you were Holtepaul.
Id rather Houllier showed as much passion towards Aston Villa & their Fans as he does Liverpool & theirs . Just for him to match Holtepaul for passion would be a bonus
But you cant have everything I suppose .
-
I'd rather Houllier was at the game than you were Holtepaul.
Id rather Houllier showed as much passion towards Aston Villa & their Fans as he does Liverpool & theirs . Just for him to match Holtepaul for passion would be a bonus
But you cant have everything I suppose .
What has Houllier done towards the Villa fans that shows he has no passion?
I'm not saying that what he done at Liverpool was the correct thing, but the way it is blown up by certain supporters you'd think he'd come out after the game and said "I'd just like to say that all Villa fans are ******".
-
I'd rather Houllier was at the game than you were Holtepaul.
Id rather Houllier showed as much passion towards Aston Villa & their Fans as he does Liverpool & theirs . Just for him to match Holtepaul for passion would be a bonus
But you cant have everything I suppose .
What has Houllier done towards the Villa fans that shows he has no passion?
I'm not saying that what he done at Liverpool was the correct thing, but the way it is blown up by certain supporters you'd think he'd come out after the game and said "I'd just like to say that all Villa fans are c***s".
Think thats exactly what he said to the 3'000 or so that made the efffort for Man City Cup match.
-
I'd rather Houllier was at the game than you were Holtepaul.
Id rather Houllier showed as much passion towards Aston Villa & their Fans as he does Liverpool & theirs . Just for him to match Holtepaul for passion would be a bonus
But you cant have everything I suppose .
What has Houllier done towards the Villa fans that shows he has no passion?
I'm not saying that what he done at Liverpool was the correct thing, but the way it is blown up by certain supporters you'd think he'd come out after the game and said "I'd just like to say that all Villa fans are c***s".
Think thats exactly what he said to the 3'000 or so that made the efffort for Man City Cup match.
So why didn't MoN get this level of abuse when he did the same thing to the 500 or so that made the effort for the Moscow cup match?
-
If you wan Houllier's regime summed up, look no further than the fact we're worried about what teams like Blackpool and Wigan are doing with two games left. Pathetic
The whole experiment has been a disaster from start to finish, and I dread to think how morale on and off the field would be affected by starting next season with the current management team
-
Listen - I could go on and on - there have been many many other things - but I cannot think of ONE thing the supporters have done this year that would be considered embarrassing - so tell me - why are we an embarrassment ?
For a start there's the supporter who's telling a director that the manager shouldn't be at a match.
-
The fact that so many teams around the bottom of the table have been beating each other, and there hasn't been 1/2 teams adrift at the bottom hasn't helped.
But as has been said, have a look at our form since we signed Bent, it's hardly relegation form at all.
It's been our worst season for 4 years, but I think the way it's being blown out of all proportion is an absolute extreme.
-
There is absolutely no question that Houllier needs to go. T
-
I'd rather Houllier was at the game than you were Holtepaul.
Id rather Houllier showed as much passion towards Aston Villa & their Fans as he does Liverpool & theirs . Just for him to match Holtepaul for passion would be a bonus
But you cant have everything I suppose .
What has Houllier done towards the Villa fans that shows he has no passion?
I'm not saying that what he done at Liverpool was the correct thing, but the way it is blown up by certain supporters you'd think he'd come out after the game and said "I'd just like to say that all Villa fans are c***s".
Think thats exactly what he said to the 3'000 or so that made the efffort for Man City Cup match.
So why didn't MoN get this level of abuse when he did the same thing to the 500 or so that made the effort for the Moscow cup match?
Think he did to be fair , plus he didnt state we wernt good enough to beat Moscow anyway As Houllier did against City after beating them only a couple of games previously.
-
We shouldn't even be thinking about relegation, though. Look how much we spent on this squad, then look at the teams we are in the mix with.
we'll probably finish one point above relegation. I don't se how that is blowing anything out of proportion
-
I'd rather Houllier was at the game than you were Holtepaul.
Id rather Houllier showed as much passion towards Aston Villa & their Fans as he does Liverpool & theirs . Just for him to match Holtepaul for passion would be a bonus
But you cant have everything I suppose .
What has Houllier done towards the Villa fans that shows he has no passion?
I'm not saying that what he done at Liverpool was the correct thing, but the way it is blown up by certain supporters you'd think he'd come out after the game and said "I'd just like to say that all Villa fans are c***s".
Think thats exactly what he said to the 3'000 or so that made the efffort for Man City Cup match.
So why didn't MoN get this level of abuse when he did the same thing to the 500 or so that made the effort for the Moscow cup match?
He got loads of stick for it. But then that was tempered by the fact that we were doing well in the league so he got a bit off leeway.
-
The fact that so many teams around the bottom of the table have been beating each other, and there hasn't been 1/2 teams adrift at the bottom hasn't helped.
But as has been said, have a look at our form since we signed Bent, it's hardly relegation form at all.
It's been our worst season for 4 years, but I think the way it's being blown out of all proportion is an absolute extreme.
We could still go down with 2 games to go, but will most probably stay up by a point or two .
Just how bad does it have to get ??
-
I'd rather Houllier was at the game than you were Holtepaul.
Id rather Houllier showed as much passion towards Aston Villa & their Fans as he does Liverpool & theirs . Just for him to match Holtepaul for passion would be a bonus
But you cant have everything I suppose .
What has Houllier done towards the Villa fans that shows he has no passion?
I'm not saying that what he done at Liverpool was the correct thing, but the way it is blown up by certain supporters you'd think he'd come out after the game and said "I'd just like to say that all Villa fans are c***s".
Think thats exactly what he said to the 3'000 or so that made the efffort for Man City Cup match.
So why didn't MoN get this level of abuse when he did the same thing to the 500 or so that made the effort for the Moscow cup match?
Think he did to be fair , plus he didnt state we wernt good enough to beat Moscow anyway As Houllier did against City after beating them only a couple of games previously.
Exactly. That has been a depressing feature of GHs time here - pointless, insensitive foot in mouth moments.
He might think were no.liverpool, but that is no excuse to act like we're Albion.
-
Unlikely as it is I'm sure if GH could pick a team to send us down, it would be Liverpool!
-
MoN got plenty of stick, and I was one of the ones shouting loudest about it at the time. However we didn't have fans coming on saying he shouldn't turn up at a match.
Paulie - as well as look at the money spent on the team, how much of that money was spent by Houllier? Look at the players he inherited - a clearly unfit fat ****** Dunne. The likes of Collins, Warnock, Beye who have been seriously out of form and not giving a shit either way. Then add into the mix Ireland. I'm not saying Houllier is a great choice as manager, and he has made some strange selection choices (I'm talking about Cuellar there), but we have been nowhere as bad as a lot of people are making out. Especially since Bent came in and he was starting to get a settled spine to the team.
My main argument/gripe though is twats coming out and saying that Houllier should not be allowed to attend the Liverpool match. He's the fucking manager of the club. ASTON VILLA FOOTBALL CLUB MANAGER is his job title (or could be Head Coach), so to say he shouldn't be at the match is a fucking joke. I'd be more pissed off if he was told he were fit enough to attend the match and not bother going.
-
The fact that so many teams around the bottom of the table have been beating each other, and there hasn't been 1/2 teams adrift at the bottom hasn't helped.
But as has been said, have a look at our form since we signed Bent, it's hardly relegation form at all.
It's been our worst season for 4 years, but I think the way it's being blown out of all proportion is an absolute extreme.
We could still go down with 2 games to go, but will most probably stay up by a point or two .
Just how bad does it have to get ??
Do you really think that Blackpool, who have got to go to Old Trafford, are not only going to win that match but also turn around an 8 goal margin?
-
They're about to sing Abide with me at the Cup Final .
That couldve been us , but no we wernt good enough to beat Man City instead we're looking over our shoulders to see how Blackpool , Wolves & Blackburn are doing to confirm we wont be regelated.
The quicker Houllier fucks off the better , if he does turn up against Liverpool hopefully its only for his P45.
-
The fact that so many teams around the bottom of the table have been beating each other, and there hasn't been 1/2 teams adrift at the bottom hasn't helped.
But as has been said, have a look at our form since we signed Bent, it's hardly relegation form at all.
It's been our worst season for 4 years, but I think the way it's being blown out of all proportion is an absolute extreme.
We could still go down with 2 games to go, but will most probably stay up by a point or two .
Just how bad does it have to get ??
Do you really think that Blackpool, who have got to go to Old Trafford, are not only going to win that match but also turn around an 8 goal margin?
[/quoteThe fact that so many teams around the bottom of the table have been beating each other, and there hasn't been 1/2 teams adrift at the bottom hasn't helped.
But as has been said, have a look at our form since we signed Bent, it's hardly relegation form at all.
It's been our worst season for 4 years, but I think the way it's being blown out of all proportion is an absolute extreme.
We could still go down with 2 games to go, but will most probably stay up by a point or two .
Just how bad does it have to get ??
Do you really think that Blackpool, who have got to go to Old Trafford, are not only going to win that match but also turn around an 8 goal margin?
So we could stop up by better goal difference to Blackpool , fucking hell you've got to be on a wind up .
-
Thing is, we don't need other clubs necessarily to turn around the goal margin - we'll do that for them by losing heavily against Arsenal and Liverpool.
-
Well West Ham can't catch us. The second place may well go to Blackburn if they fail to get anything at Wolves next week - even if they do Wolves will finish below us, that leaves Wigan tommorow finishing below us if they fail to defeat West Ham. Can't really see Blackpool defeating Man Utd next week with their leaky defence. It's really crap having to stress over this though..... Randy, get rid of this management team fast!!!
-
Listen - I could go on and on - there have been many many other things - but I cannot think of ONE thing the supporters have done this year that would be considered embarrassing - so tell me - why are we an embarrassment ?
For a start there's the supporter who's telling a director that the manager shouldn't be at a match.
Oh is that right Dave
How about this one then
There is a manager who tells two players that are paid £100000 per week not to attend matches, or even bother come to training.
Or a manager who tells a player who signed weeks before, he didn't really want him
Shall I go on..................
-
Well said holtepaul
-
Well one was for a breach of club discipline, similar punishments happen at many clubs.
The other was because he, err, didn't really want a player that was signed before he became manager, I assume we are talking Ireland here? Well if that's the case he was in tune with approximately 90% of the fans on this one I reckon!
-
Paulie - as well as look at the money spent on the team, how much of that money was spent by Houllier? Look at the players he inherited - a clearly unfit fat c*** Dunne. The likes of Collins, Warnock, Beye who have been seriously out of form and not giving a shit either way. Then add into the mix Ireland. I'm not saying Houllier is a great choice as manager, and he has made some strange selection choices (I'm talking about Cuellar there), but we have been nowhere as bad as a lot of people are making out. Especially since Bent came in and he was starting to get a settled spine to the team.
That's all well and good, and it was always going to be difficult this season, but to turn a squad from top six into bottom six with the subtraction of one very good midfielder for half the season plus the addition of one very good goalscorer, well, that is utterly unacceptable.
There's nothing settled about this team, and "spine" is the last word I would associate with it. A good portion of that blame lies with the players, but the manager is ultimately responsible.
My main argument/gripe though is twats coming out and saying that Houllier should not be allowed to attend the Liverpool match. He's the fucking manager of the club. ASTON VILLA FOOTBALL CLUB MANAGER is his job title (or could be Head Coach), so to say he shouldn't be at the match is a fucking joke. I'd be more pissed off if he was told he were fit enough to attend the match and not bother going.
He's not attending in his capacity as our manager, though, is he? He's not going to be giving team talks or sitting on the bench. If you imagine the situation where we need something from that game, and there's a love-in between our manager and their fans, it doesn't really take much to imagine why people might be very, very pissed off.
It shouldn't be like that, you're right, but that doesn't change the fact that it is. Like so many fuck ups this season, this is entirely avoidable.
-
Listen - I could go on and on - there have been many many other things - but I cannot think of ONE thing the supporters have done this year that would be considered embarrassing - so tell me - why are we an embarrassment ?
For a start there's the supporter who's telling a director that the manager shouldn't be at a match.
Oh is that right Dave
How about this one then
There is a manager who tells two players that are paid £100000 per week not to attend matches, or even bother come to training.
Or a manager who tells a player who signed weeks before, he didn't really want him
Shall I go on..................
That's a new definition of 'embarassment' - "He did something I don't agree with." How DARE he? - he'll be turning up to matches next.
-
Sorry Dave are you for real.
Villa park and Bodymoor Heath have been one embarrassment after another this season
Sorry kid, but this is nothing to do with "something I don't agree with".
This is, Aston Villa Football Club going from one crisis to another in a season that has been worse than any I can remember since Billy McNeill (far worse than GT2 and worse than DOL)
Now, after suffering the boos , banners , national radio phone ins and we all know what after our manager making a total embarrassment and laughing stock after visiting Anfield in November, people seem happy to let the club maybe put themselves into a position that it will happen again.
And why ? - you tell me one bloody reason Houllier needs to attend the game. He won't be anywhere near the changing room , dug out, players, officials, anything. He will be the only wya he can isitting in the stands with you and I - the only way he can influence anything on the pitch is if he streaks !
So why on earth put ourselves in the position that fans will be more interested on how Houllier reacts to any chants from Scouse fans than what is occurring on the pitch.
If he comes back in August as manager and we have 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' first game , that is different, he is MANAGER
Next week, he is there as "OBSERVER" - and can I ask why he intends to observe the game against the club he loves - not tomorrow.
Only he knows - but why even put yourself , and the club in the position of wondering.
Sorry mate, yet another bad move from a club that has had one bad move after another this season.
Th club is a farce at the moment, the worst I have EVER seen it. And that includes all the dark days I have seen. So dont say I am the embarrassment.
lSometimes loving someone means telling the truth - not sticking your head in the sand believing and accepting everything the person you love does.
-
Holtepaul. Nobody will argue with that statement if they love villa
-
Paulie - as well as look at the money spent on the team, how much of that money was spent by Houllier? Look at the players he inherited - a clearly unfit fat c*** Dunne. The likes of Collins, Warnock, Beye who have been seriously out of form and not giving a shit either way. Then add into the mix Ireland. I'm not saying Houllier is a great choice as manager, and he has made some strange selection choices (I'm talking about Cuellar there), but we have been nowhere as bad as a lot of people are making out. Especially since Bent came in and he was starting to get a settled spine to the team.
That's all well and good, and it was always going to be difficult this season, but to turn a squad from top six into bottom six with the subtraction of one very good midfielder for half the season plus the addition of one very good goalscorer, well, that is utterly unacceptable.
There's nothing settled about this team, and "spine" is the last word I would associate with it. A good portion of that blame lies with the players, but the manager is ultimately responsible.
My main argument/gripe though is twats coming out and saying that Houllier should not be allowed to attend the Liverpool match. He's the fucking manager of the club. ASTON VILLA FOOTBALL CLUB MANAGER is his job title (or could be Head Coach), so to say he shouldn't be at the match is a fucking joke. I'd be more pissed off if he was told he were fit enough to attend the match and not bother going.
He's not attending in his capacity as our manager, though, is he? He's not going to be giving team talks or sitting on the bench. If you imagine the situation where we need something from that game, and there's a love-in between our manager and their fans, it doesn't really take much to imagine why people might be very, very pissed off.
It shouldn't be like that, you're right, but that doesn't change the fact that it is. Like so many fuck ups this season, this is entirely avoidable.
Paulie. You make a few valid points, but if we look at it closely, we can also give valid reasons for why things have been poor this season. the side that finished top 6 was basically the same 11 week in, week out. With all the injuries we have had this season, its shown the squad wasnt good enough, dont forget, at times our only fit striker was The Fonz, and our midfield was decimated to the point we had to play Ciaren Clark in midfield, yet when he tries to do something about it by bringing Pires in, he got slaughtered by some. Also, with trying to play a different style, to our last manager, maybe these players cant play that way? Maybe if he can carry on, with a proper pre season, and getting his own players in, playing his way, we will see us back up in the top 7 again next season??
-
Holtepaul. Nobody will argue with that statement if they love villa
You can't be a Villa fan and have a different opinion to you? Right. Thanks for letting us know.
-
Fuck off paulie
-
Paulie - as well as look at the money spent on the team, how much of that money was spent by Houllier? Look at the players he inherited - a clearly unfit fat c*** Dunne. The likes of Collins, Warnock, Beye who have been seriously out of form and not giving a shit either way. Then add into the mix Ireland. I'm not saying Houllier is a great choice as manager, and he has made some strange selection choices (I'm talking about Cuellar there), but we have been nowhere as bad as a lot of people are making out. Especially since Bent came in and he was starting to get a settled spine to the team.
That's all well and good, and it was always going to be difficult this season, but to turn a squad from top six into bottom six with the subtraction of one very good midfielder for half the season plus the addition of one very good goalscorer, well, that is utterly unacceptable.
There's nothing settled about this team, and "spine" is the last word I would associate with it. A good portion of that blame lies with the players, but the manager is ultimately responsible.
My main argument/gripe though is twats coming out and saying that Houllier should not be allowed to attend the Liverpool match. He's the fucking manager of the club. ASTON VILLA FOOTBALL CLUB MANAGER is his job title (or could be Head Coach), so to say he shouldn't be at the match is a fucking joke. I'd be more pissed off if he was told he were fit enough to attend the match and not bother going.
He's not attending in his capacity as our manager, though, is he? He's not going to be giving team talks or sitting on the bench. If you imagine the situation where we need something from that game, and there's a love-in between our manager and their fans, it doesn't really take much to imagine why people might be very, very pissed off.
It shouldn't be like that, you're right, but that doesn't change the fact that it is. Like so many fuck ups this season, this is entirely avoidable.
Paulie. You make a few valid points, but if we look at it closely, we can also give valid reasons for why things have been poor this season. the side that finished top 6 was basically the same 11 week in, week out. With all the injuries we have had this season, its shown the squad wasnt good enough, dont forget, at times our only fit striker was The Fonz, and our midfield was decimated to the point we had to play Ciaren Clark in midfield, yet when he tries to do something about it by bringing Pires in, he got slaughtered by some. Also, with trying to play a different style, to our last manager, maybe these players cant play that way? Maybe if he can carry on, with a proper pre season, and getting his own players in, playing his way, we will see us back up in the top 7 again next season??
I can see the positive things he has done, it is not all bad, not at all. I've seen him get us to try to start playing the ball around a bit more. Yes, he was also very unfortunate with injuries. I also understood why he brought Pires in.
On the other hand, he has alienated himself from the fans from day one (in fact, from before day one), humiliated us in the Cup, and failed to achieve an acceptable finish even by his own low estimation of us (7th-12th).
There is no way whatsoever this squad should have spent most of the season in the bottom six.
I can't see how he can carry on next season, given the gigantic chasm that exists between him and GM and the support at the moment.
-
Excuse me. Swearing on ITV, swearing here, I'm writing to the Daily Mail!
-
Fuck off paulie
Bye.
-
Sorry Dave are you for real.
Villa park and Bodymoor Heath have been one embarrassment after another this season
Sorry kid, but this is nothing to do with "something I don't agree with".
This is, Aston Villa Football Club going from one crisis to another in a season that has been worse than any I can remember since Billy McNeill (far worse than GT2 and worse than DOL)
Now, after suffering the boos , banners , national radio phone ins and we all know what after our manager making a total embarrassment and laughing stock after visiting Anfield in November, people seem happy to let the club maybe put themselves into a position that it will happen again.
And why ? - you tell me one bloody reason Houllier needs to attend the game. He won't be anywhere near the changing room , dug out, players, officials, anything. He will be the only wya he can isitting in the stands with you and I - the only way he can influence anything on the pitch is if he streaks !
So why on earth put ourselves in the position that fans will be more interested on how Houllier reacts to any chants from Scouse fans than what is occurring on the pitch.
If he comes back in August as manager and we have 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' first game , that is different, he is MANAGER
Next week, he is there as "OBSERVER" - and can I ask why he intends to observe the game against the club he loves - not tomorrow.
Only he knows - but why even put yourself , and the club in the position of wondering.
Sorry mate, yet another bad move from a club that has had one bad move after another this season.
Th club is a farce at the moment, the worst I have EVER seen it. And that includes all the dark days I have seen. So dont say I am the embarrassment.
lSometimes loving someone means telling the truth - not sticking your head in the sand believing and accepting everything the person you love does.
Yes, embarrassment sums it up nicely.
-
Dave Woodhall, what the fuck are you on about? Are you happy with the season? Happy with the poor press the club has had? Lot's of positives in there for you to take from this season? At least explain why you think the Aston Villa fans are an embarrassment? You know, those people who buy your shit fanzine?
-
Bye Newby..........
-
Bye Newby..........
What's that? How dare I question someone who calls his own fans an embarrassment, that includes you too. He needs to qualify why he makes that statement.
-
He's calling certain dummy-spitting, melodramatic drama queens an embarrasment, which they certainly are.
-
Dave Woodhall, what the fuck are you on about? Are you happy with the season? Happy with the poor press the club has had? Lot's of positives in there for you to take from this season? At least explain why you think the Aston Villa fans are an embarrassment? You know, those people who buy your shit fanzine?
Just read your little tag line on the bottom of your post. Nice use of irony...oh.
-
Bye Newby..........
What's that? How dare I question someone who calls his own fans an embarrassment, that includes you too. He needs to qualify why he makes that statement.
He's Dave Woodhall, He'll do what he wants.
-
I think Dave Cooper just said it all. I get annoyed, pissed off and angry when the team play badly. The embarassment comes when the foot-stamping begins and certain supporters start demanding their own way and behaving as though we have some divine right to success.
-
Dave,
Without getting into a personal argment here, I have seen you many many many many times on the TV "demanding the club do things"
I also seem to remember a certain magazine making someone money , having read it, I can confirm most of it is full of the writer "demanding things"
As I say, no offence, but people in glass houses and all that.
-
Dave,
Without getting into a personal argment here, I have seen you many many many many times on the TV "demanding the club do things"
I also seem to remember a certain magazine making someone money , having read it, I can confirm most of it is full of the writer "demanding things"
As I say, no offence, but people in glass houses and all that.
Which of the hundreds of writers was that?
It's not about 'demanding things'; it's about a season that has been for the most part shite - albeit with several mitigating circumstances - but has certainly not been worse than several others we've endured without the sort of hysteria prevalent this time round. Maybe it's an internet thing, or the modern demand for instant success, but I can't remember a time before when our own supporters have been our fiercest and most relentless abusers. That banner, some of what's been said about the manager and the abuse given to the general and Randy on several occasions has been embarassing to witness.
-
This thread now reminds me of the cup final last year when a fight broke out between a few Villa fans right in front of me towards the end of the match.
Seems like we're always getting on happily with each other - oh happy days!!!
-
Sorry Dave are you for real.
Villa park and Bodymoor Heath have been one embarrassment after another this season
Sorry kid, but this is nothing to do with "something I don't agree with".
This is, Aston Villa Football Club going from one crisis to another in a season that has been worse than any I can remember since Billy McNeill (far worse than GT2 and worse than DOL)
Now, after suffering the boos , banners , national radio phone ins and we all know what after our manager making a total embarrassment and laughing stock after visiting Anfield in November, people seem happy to let the club maybe put themselves into a position that it will happen again.
And why ? - you tell me one bloody reason Houllier needs to attend the game. He won't be anywhere near the changing room , dug out, players, officials, anything. He will be the only wya he can isitting in the stands with you and I - the only way he can influence anything on the pitch is if he streaks !
So why on earth put ourselves in the position that fans will be more interested on how Houllier reacts to any chants from Scouse fans than what is occurring on the pitch.
If he comes back in August as manager and we have 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' first game , that is different, he is MANAGER
Next week, he is there as "OBSERVER" - and can I ask why he intends to observe the game against the club he loves - not tomorrow.
Only he knows - but why even put yourself , and the club in the position of wondering.
Sorry mate, yet another bad move from a club that has had one bad move after another this season.
Th club is a farce at the moment, the worst I have EVER seen it. And that includes all the dark days I have seen. So dont say I am the embarrassment.
lSometimes loving someone means telling the truth - not sticking your head in the sand believing and accepting everything the person you love does.
Yes, embarrassment sums it up nicely.
Even if he's only there to watch what's going on if there's any chance he will be manager next season suggesting he stay away is ridiculous. I'd be much more upset to find that anyone connected with the club thought it better for him to stay away than if there's a photo in the newspaper of him waving to a liverpool fan.
-
i would imagine he is more coming to the last game of the season at villa park, because it is the last game of the season at villa park...
-
Dave,
Without getting into a personal argment here, I have seen you many many many many times on the TV "demanding the club do things"
I also seem to remember a certain magazine making someone money , having read it, I can confirm most of it is full of the writer "demanding things"
As I say, no offence, but people in glass houses and all that.
Which of the hundreds of writers was that?
It's not about 'demanding things'; it's about a season that has been for the most part shite - albeit with several mitigating circumstances - but has certainly not been worse than several others we've endured without the sort of hysteria prevalent this time round. Maybe it's an internet thing, or the modern demand for instant success, but I can't remember a time before when our own supporters have been our fiercest and most relentless abusers. That banner, some of what's been said about the manager and the abuse given to the general and Randy on several occasions has been embarassing to witness.
This time last year you were moaning about the manager and taunting people who disagreed with you with 'that's right, when in doubt blame the fans...'
What's changed, apart from our position in the league and the manager?
-
Dave,
Without getting into a personal argment here, I have seen you many many many many times on the TV nulldemanding the club do thingsnull
I also seem to remember a certain magazine making someone money , having read it, I can confirm most of it is full of the writer nulldemanding thingsnull
As I say, no offence, but people in glass houses and all that.
Which of the hundreds of writers was that?
It's not about 'demanding things'; it's about a season that has been for the most part shite - albeit with several mitigating circumstances - but has certainly not been worse than several others we've endured without the sort of hysteria prevalent this time round. Maybe it's an internet thing, or the modern demand for instant success, but I can't remember a time before when our own supporters have been our fiercest and most relentless abusers. That banner, some of what's been said about the manager and the abuse given to the general and Randy on several occasions has been embarassing to witness.
This time last year you were moaning about the manager and taunting people who disagreed with you with 'that's right, when in doubt blame the fans...'
What's changed, apart from our position in the league and the manager?
There's a bit of a difference between what was being said then, and the sort of downright idiocy we've seen lately. For example, do you think it's right that the Villa manager should be asked to stay away from a Villa game because of the reaction he might get from Villa supporters?
-
I guess all fans have different views on things and this site gives us all a chance to vent our feelings good and bad- for me the biggest embarrassment of a dreadful season was seeing the team picked at man city in a cup that we had a real chance to progress in- Aston villa should always aim to win whatever game they play and never throw in the towel before kick off- it was embarrassing that evening!
-
No, I agree that's ludicrous.
But we've all (well, not so much people like me because I don't live locally so don't get to the match very often) got a right to be pissed off.
Much more so than we did this time last year.
-
Dave,
Without getting into a personal argment here, I have seen you many many many many times on the TV "demanding the club do things"
I also seem to remember a certain magazine making someone money , having read it, I can confirm most of it is full of the writer "demanding things"
As I say, no offence, but people in glass houses and all that.
Which of the hundreds of writers was that?
It's not about 'demanding things'; it's about a season that has been for the most part shite - albeit with several mitigating circumstances - but has certainly not been worse than several others we've endured without the sort of hysteria prevalent this time round. Maybe it's an internet thing, or the modern demand for instant success, but I can't remember a time before when our own supporters have been our fiercest and most relentless abusers. That banner, some of what's been said about the manager and the abuse given to the general and Randy on several occasions has been embarassing to witness.
A big part of the problem this season is that, after a long wait for the new manager, a lot of fans never seemed willing to give Houllier a chance. It didn't help that we'd been told Randy had pulled out the cash and had a summer that sort of backed that up, that meant a lot of people saw Houllier as an appointment made on the cheap to get rid of the high earners, again the press opinions right up until the Bent signing backed this up.
-
Sorry eastie, my response was to Dave's post!
-
Dave,
Without getting into a personal argment here, I have seen you many many many many times on the TV nulldemanding the club do thingsnull
I also seem to remember a certain magazine making someone money , having read it, I can confirm most of it is full of the writer nulldemanding thingsnull
As I say, no offence, but people in glass houses and all that.
Which of the hundreds of writers was that?
It's not about 'demanding things'; it's about a season that has been for the most part shite - albeit with several mitigating circumstances - but has certainly not been worse than several others we've endured without the sort of hysteria prevalent this time round. Maybe it's an internet thing, or the modern demand for instant success, but I can't remember a time before when our own supporters have been our fiercest and most relentless abusers. That banner, some of what's been said about the manager and the abuse given to the general and Randy on several occasions has been embarassing to witness.
This time last year you were moaning about the manager and taunting people who disagreed with you with 'that's right, when in doubt blame the fans...'
What's changed, apart from our position in the league and the manager?
There's a bit of a difference between what was being said then, and the sort of downright idiocy we've seen lately. For example, do you think it's right that the Villa manager should be asked to stay away from a Villa game because of the reaction he might get from Villa supporters?
The bloke has a dodgy ticker, its not the best place for him to be.
He's likely to get abuse , maybe not from you or I, but he will get it from some after the season we've had & some will see it as him rubbing our nose in it after what happened at Anfield
-
I don't think houllier should be told to stay away- he has been Ill and I'd be surprised and ashamed should he be abused by villa fans if he attends next weeks game.
-
No, I agree that's ludicrous.
But we've all (well, not so much people like me because I don't live locally so don't get to the match very often) got a right to be pissed off.
Much more so than we did this time last year.
We have indeed, but I still can't see why our own supporters have been so quick and unremitting in their abuse.
-
Bye Newby..........
What's that? How dare I question someone who calls his own fans an embarrassment, that includes you too. He needs to qualify why he makes that statement.
He's Dave Woodhall, He'll do what he wants.
Is that a purely sycophantic statement or taking the piss ? !
With regards to being able to say what you think, it should be allowed and frankly, the pair of them have been almost useless this season - ill or not.
-
No, I agree that's ludicrous.
But we've all (well, not so much people like me because I don't live locally so don't get to the match very often) got a right to be pissed off.
Much more so than we did this time last year.
We have indeed, but I still can't see why our own supporters have been so quick and unremitting in their abuse.
There were a sizeable number of fans who were just as vociferous in their hatred of all things MON, even before his exit, and he was a relative success.
I guess you're right in your earlier assertion that it must be an internet thing.
I can't think of a time in human history when people have had the ability to discuss and argue about non-essential, abstract concepts whenever they want to, all the time if they want to.
To think we could be talking about something that actually matters!
-
No, I agree that's ludicrous.
But we've all (well, not so much people like me because I don't live locally so don't get to the match very often) got a right to be pissed off.
Much more so than we did this time last year.
We have indeed, but I still can't see why our own supporters have been so quick and unremitting in their abuse.
There were a sizeable number of fans who were just as vociferous in their hatred of all things MON, even before his exit, and he was a relative success.
I guess you're right in your earlier assertion that it must be an internet thing.
I can't think of a time in human history when people have had the ability to discuss and argue about non-essential, abstract concepts whenever they want to, all the time if they want to.
To think we could be talking about something that actually matters!
You think O'Neill was hated by anyone except a handful of idiots? Some of us, myself included, were disappointed he'd not done better and seemed to be running out of ideas, but there was none of the personal vitriol.
I've said it before but I do think one of the reasons we've seen what we've seen is because the board have been too open and made us common rabble feel they owe us something.
-
I've said it before but I do think one of the reasons we've seen what we've seen is because the board have been too open and made us common rabble feel they owe us something.
One of the reasons, quite possibly.
Remember, though, that GT Mk 11 was subjected to a similar level of vitriol and that he was also operating under difficult circumstances in what was a transitional season, and that the board was not quite so open back then.
-
I've said it before but I do think one of the reasons we've seen what we've seen is because the board have been too open and made us common rabble feel they owe us something.
One of the reasons, quite possibly.
Remember, though, that GT Mk 11 was subjected to a similar level of vitriol and that he was also operating under difficult circumstances in what was a transitional season, and that the board was not quite so open back then.
Back then there was an underlying element that said everything the club did was wrong and Sir Graham was a traitor for being employed by Doug.
-
No, I agree that's ludicrous.
But we've all (well, not so much people like me because I don't live locally so don't get to the match very often) got a right to be pissed off.
Much more so than we did this time last year.
We have indeed, but I still can't see why our own supporters have been so quick and unremitting in their abuse.
Perhaps it's the disappointment of getting so close to the promised land of the Sky 4 and then falling away. Not saying it's fair but just trying to think of a reason.
-
Dave Woodhall, what the fuck are you on about? Are you happy with the season? Happy with the poor press the club has had? Lot's of positives in there for you to take from this season? At least explain why you think the Aston Villa fans are an embarrassment? You know, those people who buy your shit fanzine?
Is it? If so, I'd like to see you produce something better.
-
what do people think of this
next season houiller moves up stairs ( director of football) and Ray Wilkins becomes 1st team coach
-
what do people think of this
next season houiller moves up stairs ( director of football) and Ray Wilkins becomes 1st team coach
I'd go for Houllier to stay as manager and Wilkins to replace McAllister.
-
I think a lot of criticism is born out of sheer frustration- the top 4 dream seems to have died and for all the cash spent we have not won anything , I do not agree with all the criticism but I can understand the frustrations involved- many of us were around to see the glory days but for the younger generation I wonder if they will ever see villa at the very top again- the game as we knew it has sadly changed and maybe forever!
-
would it be *that* bad if Houllier waved at liverpool fans that were chanting his name. Seriously, surely we understand that he has a bond with the club, equally it does mean that he is not trying his hardest for villa.
Or have I lost my sense of perspective?
-
Dave Woodhall, what the fuck are you on about? Are you happy with the season? Happy with the poor press the club has had? Lot's of positives in there for you to take from this season? At least explain why you think the Aston Villa fans are an embarrassment? You know, those people who buy your shit fanzine?
Is it? If so, I'd like to see you produce something better.
It's an odd website to come onto if you hate the fanzine isn't it?
-
Not unless you wanted to say something provocative and then go running back to another website and say, "did you see how clever I was"
-
Of course Liverpool fans will chant houlliers name and he should respond to them, in the same way sir Graham and big Ron were welcomed back here and applauded us.
I think the big mistake GED made was applauding the kop at the end and yet ignoring the villa fans, if he had applauded both sets of fans he may have avoided the flak!
-
Of course Liverpool fans will chant houlliers name and he should respond to them, in the same way sir Graham and big Ron were welcomed back here and applauded us.
I think the big mistake GED made was applauding the kop at the end and yet ignoring the villa fans, if he had applauded both sets of fans he may have avoided the flak!
Agree totally, or to be internet savvy I guess I should just say...
THIS
-
I think the term you are looking for is 'FACT!' FACT!
-
Anyway, back onto the subject heading........
I see that Ancellotti has said today that he hopes to be managing in the PL next season, if it is not to be with Chelsea then with another club, if he cannot do this he will return to Italy.
Now, given that the top 6 will not be looking to give him a job, how about RL having a word?
(this is taking the fact that the media seem to presume it is a given that he is on his way out of Stamford Bridge)
-
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11827_6932648,00.html
Or this fella with Wilkins as his number 2?
-
Anyway, back onto the subject heading........
I see that Ancellotti has said today that he hopes to be managing in the PL next season, if it is not to be with Chelsea then with another club, if he cannot do this he will return to Italy.
Now, given that the top 6 will not be looking to give him a job, how about RL having a word?
(this is taking the fact that the media seem to presume it is a given that he is on his way out of Stamford Bridge)
After the Houllier experience I'm not convinced a foreign flashy manager is the answer. Even the British media regards us a mid table unglamorous club and its really only us that cares for our rich heritage. Gary Mac even suggested a few weeks ago that he was surpirsed that we were a "big city club" when he first joined.
To my mind we need a determined, dour and stubborn British manager who can galvanise the team and fans ("us against the world" and all that), and who is old enough to know what AVFC stands for. Someone like Neil Warnock or Tony Pulis would do for me. Anything for a trophy.
-
No one is really bothered if Houllier goes... we need a new manager, and we need a new manager to brought in QUICKLY so he gets the chance to work with with the players during pre-season and can decide who he wants in and out also allowing he the time to get the team playing how he wants giving hime enough time.
Moyes or Jol perhaps.
It wouldn't be the smartest move bringing Houllier back with his health how it is, we thought he had good health. I don't think he's done enough this season to please many fans...
This season has been so depressing... after having a really good four seasons under O'Neil it's been a big shock this season, a horrible nightmare.
-
I think the fact that quite a few people were on the 'other games' thread earlier today hoping results went our way with two games to go says it all really. He needs to go, it's not been good enough.
-
Thing is, we don't need other clubs necessarily to turn around the goal margin - we'll do that for them by losing heavily against Arsenal and Liverpool.
So we've already lost heavily at Arsenal and at home to Liverpool then? What else happens in the world over the next 8 days?
-
Listen - I could go on and on - there have been many many other things - but I cannot think of ONE thing the supporters have done this year that would be considered embarrassing - so tell me - why are we an embarrassment ?
For a start there's the supporter who's telling a director that the manager shouldn't be at a match.
Oh is that right Dave
How about this one then
There is a manager who tells two players that are paid £100000 per week not to attend matches, or even bother come to training.
Or a manager who tells a player who signed weeks before, he didn't really want him
Shall I go on..................
Which two players in our squad are paid over £100k?
I assume the player who Houllier said he didn't want is Ireland. A player who Houllier didn't actually sign.
-
Paulie - as well as look at the money spent on the team, how much of that money was spent by Houllier? Look at the players he inherited - a clearly unfit fat c*** Dunne. The likes of Collins, Warnock, Beye who have been seriously out of form and not giving a shit either way. Then add into the mix Ireland. I'm not saying Houllier is a great choice as manager, and he has made some strange selection choices (I'm talking about Cuellar there), but we have been nowhere as bad as a lot of people are making out. Especially since Bent came in and he was starting to get a settled spine to the team.
That's all well and good, and it was always going to be difficult this season, but to turn a squad from top six into bottom six with the subtraction of one very good midfielder for half the season plus the addition of one very good goalscorer, well, that is utterly unacceptable.
There's nothing settled about this team, and "spine" is the last word I would associate with it. A good portion of that blame lies with the players, but the manager is ultimately responsible.
My main argument/gripe though is twats coming out and saying that Houllier should not be allowed to attend the Liverpool match. He's the fucking manager of the club. ASTON VILLA FOOTBALL CLUB MANAGER is his job title (or could be Head Coach), so to say he shouldn't be at the match is a fucking joke. I'd be more pissed off if he was told he were fit enough to attend the match and not bother going.
He's not attending in his capacity as our manager, though, is he? He's not going to be giving team talks or sitting on the bench. If you imagine the situation where we need something from that game, and there's a love-in between our manager and their fans, it doesn't really take much to imagine why people might be very, very pissed off.
It shouldn't be like that, you're right, but that doesn't change the fact that it is. Like so many fuck ups this season, this is entirely avoidable.
What a lot of people seem to forget when they say about Houllier turning a squad that finished 6th last season to one that has struggled this is the important fact that all the teams that were also competing for the top 7/8 improved their squads last summer - all we did was sell our best midfielder and replace him with a nutter. So this top 6 squad has been weakened. This isn't the fault of Houllier but that of the ****** that threw his toys out of his pram and fucked off with ALL of the 1st team back room staff 5 days before the season kicked off. So up until January we had a weaker squad compared to that of the previous season. Add to that one of the worst injury crisis's I can ever remember us having. Even when our better players from the previous season were able to play they have been woefully off form. Dunne came back seriously overweight and clearly unfit. Gabby had niggling injuries and has had a stop start season. Warnock lost his form completely and Carew forgot where the goal was.
In previous seasons, if we had got 41 points at this stage in the season we'd be comfortably safe now and around 11th in the league. However in each of them seasons there have been teams well cut adrift at the foot of the table (Burnley, Hull, Portsmouth etc). This season though we haven't had that, and all the teams that are fighting the drop have been beating each other as well as picking up shock results elsewhere. Because of that the relegation fight has been tighter than it has been for many a year. When was the last time we came into the penultimate weekend in the season and no team had already been relegated? I honestly cannot remember.
Houllier has made some mistakes this season, let's not kid ourselves that he hasn't. However he has also had some wretched luck too, coupled with a core of the players who clearly couldn't give a fuck about the club or playing for the fans/shirt. I'm in the minority here, and that doesn't bother me at all, but I'd like to see Houllier stay on as Manager. He started to address the areas where we have struggled the most of the past couple of years and the type of football we were playing up to his illness was pretty good. Come this summer I'd expect him to continue what he started in January and he'd be able to use the whole of the pre-season to drill into this squad what he wants. Sadly though I expect that his family will persuade him that it's not worth the risks to his health.
The second point about him not attending the match as manager, he might not be in the dug out, but if he were to stay he'd want to see how we played and also have a better understanding about how the match panned out than he would by sitting in his house watching on a dodgy internet stream and trying to keep up with the match threads we have on here. I can't help but think that Houllier would be in a no win situation here, if he were told he was fit enough to attend the game there are a lot of posters on here who would be slagging him off for not having the passion for the job for wanting to attend.
-
I'm with you Villa Sub, all the way!
Going to Arsenal?
-
Not tomorrow - got family coming down for the day.
-
Yup, big thumbs up from me too, that's what I've been saying for a while.
Add on that mon had a very specific game plan that he built his squad (at great expense) to be able to follow. Unfortunately those players were then unable or unwilling to adapt to the new system Houllier tried to introduce, it seemed though that the signing of Bent made them realise things could go well as we really did see a big improvement.
-
And all that's happened recently is that we've gone back to last season's tactics, with last season's players (bar Bent and Walker) and achieved a couple of scrappy wins which more than likely will keep us up.
Does anybody really think that the current management will improve things next season? Not me, no chance.
Time for change, and fast!
-
If Ancellotti leaves Chelsea, and is looking for a club in England, we should be in there like a shot. Great manager, and he and Wilkins together have proved an excellent partnership.
-
If Ancellotti leaves Chelsea, and is looking for a club in England, we should be in there like a shot. Great manager, and he and Wilkins together have proved an excellent partnership.
Definatly, but there will be big clubs in Italy who would take him with CL I think.
-
Now that would be very good ozzjim but I guess there will be a queue.... But I do like Ancelotti. Amazingly dignified and honest man and not a bad football coach.
-
Now that would be very good ozzjim but I guess there will be a queue.... But I do like Ancelotti. Amazingly dignified and honest man and not a bad football coach.
Not a bad football coach?
Jesus, we are acclimnatized to managers like MON and Houllier, whereas Carletto has won the Serie A, the Premier League, the FA Cup and the Champions League: maybe he deserves to be considered something better than "not a bad football coach"!
-
Now that would be very good ozzjim but I guess there will be a queue.... But I do like Ancelotti. Amazingly dignified and honest man and not a bad football coach.
Not a bad football coach?
Jesus, we are acclimnatized to managers like MON and Houllier, whereas Carletto has won the Serie A, the Premier League, the FA Cup and the Champions League: maybe he deserves to be considered something better than "not a bad football coach"!
Yet people are against a coach who has won la ligue twice, the uefa cup, the european cup, the fa cup and the world club cup. For all the arguments against Benitez, he is overqualified for the job with what he has won, and is only 51.
-
Now that would be very good ozzjim but I guess there will be a queue.... But I do like Ancelotti. Amazingly dignified and honest man and not a bad football coach.
Not a bad football coach?
Jesus, we are acclimnatized to managers like MON and Houllier, whereas Carletto has won the Serie A, the Premier League, the FA Cup and the Champions League: maybe he deserves to be considered something better than "not a bad football coach"!
Yet people are against a coach who has won la ligue twice, the uefa cup, the european cup, the fa cup and the world club cup. For all the arguments against Benitez, he is overqualified for the job with what he has won, and is only 51.
but 'Amazingly dignified and honest man' makes ancelotti someone you can happily accept, for all the good things in terms of success benitez is an idiot and it's really tough to not let that affect your judgement.
-
Now that would be very good ozzjim but I guess there will be a queue.... But I do like Ancelotti. Amazingly dignified and honest man and not a bad football coach.
Not a bad football coach?
Jesus, we are acclimnatized to managers like MON and Houllier, whereas Carletto has won the Serie A, the Premier League, the FA Cup and the Champions League: maybe he deserves to be considered something better than "not a bad football coach"!
Yet people are against a coach who has won la ligue twice, the uefa cup, the european cup, the fa cup and the world club cup. For all the arguments against Benitez, he is overqualified for the job with what he has won, and is only 51.
The only point I would make with both of these managers records are they have done it with inheriting teams who have had world class players and who are normally known to reside towards the top of their respective leagues.
As I have mentioned before, Benitez inherited a team that had won the Liga and finished as Runners up in the CL league twice so it's not like he was a miracle worker taking a team from nowhere to the top.
-
I can't believe such normally sane and respected posters still think that these clowns deserve another crack at next season.
Havn't the last 8 months on and off the field been enough.
If we survive this horrensous season we need fundemental change, starting with the management - and we needed it before Ged's unfortunate illness.
-
Why we keep blamin mon, he went 9 months ago frog and muppet been in charge 8 months over30 games and spent30 million plus and took us to edge of relegation, they are to blame for god sake
-
As I have mentioned before, Benitez inherited a team that had won the Liga and finished as Runners up in the CL league twice so it's not like he was a miracle worker taking a team from nowhere to the top.
Not quite true. He inherited a side that had lost both Champions League finals, true, but that team had finished fifth the season before Benitez took over. It was Benitez who won both Valencia's titles.
-
Can I add that I think that Benitez is a highly annoying arsehole, whose face and utterances have nearly caused grievous bodily harm to my TV set on many many occasions?
However, he is a very good manager and a ruthless winner and if it came to a choice between him and a nicer man who hadn't actually anything to show from his career then I'd go for Rafa every time. *
* And take out extra insurance on my TV set
-
Why we keep blamin mon, he went 9 months ago frog and muppet been in charge 8 months over30 games and spent30 million plus and took us to edge of relegation, they are to blame for god sake
It is not that simple though is it Rich - truth is the amazing MON jumped as he knew his turd of a side was not going to keep the magic martin reputation. Sure we would have got 8-9 more points than we have now, but that could easily have been the case anyway with a couple of chances taken in games where we have been on top. Houllier should bow out on health grounds for sure, but he is not singularly responsible for this season being as bad as it has, and is responsible for introducing the best striker we have had since Dwight, and one of the best right backs that seems to want to stay if we can sort out a deal for him.
I take all points re the annoying ways of Rafa, but I think he would be a very decent appointment, and if offered a manager of his stature on paper then we would have taken it. Annoying as he is, he would win a lot of matches.
-
I see the Atletico Madrid manager has said he is leaving at the end of the season. Another one we have been linked with.
Whatever happens, its going to be an interesting summer for us. I would imagine a decision will be made soon after this one ends.
-
truth is the amazing MON jumped as he knew his turd of a side
What a load of bollocks.
Sixth three times in a row, League Cup Final and FA Cup Final. I
t might not have been the best team in the world but you're rewriting history to try to make a point.
-
Now that would be very good ozzjim but I guess there will be a queue.... But I do like Ancelotti. Amazingly dignified and honest man and not a bad football coach.
Not a bad football coach?
Jesus, we are acclimnatized to managers like MON and Houllier, whereas Carletto has won the Serie A, the Premier League, the FA Cup and the Champions League: maybe he deserves to be considered something better than "not a bad football coach"!
Yet people are against a coach who has won la ligue twice, the uefa cup, the european cup, the fa cup and the world club cup. For all the arguments against Benitez, he is overqualified for the job with what he has won, and is only 51.
but 'Amazingly dignified and honest man' makes ancelotti someone you can happily accept, for all the good things in terms of success benitez is an idiot and it's really tough to not let that affect your judgement.
My Niece's go to the same school as Benitez's kids in the Wirral. From what my sister tells me there is not a nicer bloke you'd wish to meet. Always chatting along with the parents on the school run, even running the odd after school football coaching session with the children and has brought along Liverpool players to help out too. All for free and not something he has to do, but does it anyway. He is well known around the local area and gets involved in the local community too.
He may have come across as a bit mad with his "fact" rant, but he is not the only manager to have been wound up to breaking point by Ferguson.
But his personal issues to one side, have a look at his CV and the things he has won. I look forward to a time when we can just write off managers that have ONLY won the Champions League, UEFA Cup, 2 La Ligas etc etc, because we then are winning that stuff every season. Until then if someone who has that pedigree wishes to come and manage us I will welcome him.
-
truth is the amazing MON jumped as he knew his turd of a side
What a load of bollocks.
Sixth three times in a row, League Cup Final and FA Cup Final. I
t might not have been the best team in the world but you're rewriting history to try to make a point.
We were about to start the season with our most influential player halfway out of the door, with no sign of him being properly replaced. Despite another sixth place, the signs were that more and more teams had sussed us, we didn't exactly finish on a high.
That's not rewriting history, that is how it felt to me last August even before O' Neil jumped ship.
It may not be the only reason he left, but it is not bollocks at all to suggest that he saw a lean season on the cards and started worrying about his CV.
-
Why we keep blamin mon, he went 9 months ago frog and muppet been in charge 8 months over30 games and spent30 million plus and took us to edge of relegation, they are to blame for god sake
You daft racist.
-
truth is the amazing MON jumped as he knew his turd of a side
What a load of bollocks.
Sixth three times in a row, League Cup Final and FA Cup Final. I
t might not have been the best team in the world but you're rewriting history to try to make a point.
We were about to start the season with our most influential player halfway out of the door, with no sign of him being properly replaced. Despite another sixth place, the signs were that more and more teams had sussed us, we didn't exactly finish on a high.
That's not rewriting history, that is how it felt to me last August even before O' Neil jumped ship.
It may not be the only reason he left, but it is not bollocks at all to suggest that he saw a lean season on the cards and started worrying about his CV.
It was the "turd of a side" comment that I took exception with.
-
truth is the amazing MON jumped as he knew his turd of a side
What a load of bollocks.
Sixth three times in a row, League Cup Final and FA Cup Final. I
t might not have been the best team in the world but you're rewriting history to try to make a point.
We were about to start the season with our most influential player halfway out of the door, with no sign of him being properly replaced. Despite another sixth place, the signs were that more and more teams had sussed us, we didn't exactly finish on a high.
That's not rewriting history, that is how it felt to me last August even before O' Neil jumped ship.
It may not be the only reason he left, but it is not bollocks at all to suggest that he saw a lean season on the cards and started worrying about his CV.
As I said in an earlier post. Add to the fact that all the other teams in the league that we'd have been challenging for a top 7/8 position strengthened their squads, whereas we went into the season with no new signings. And look at the state of that squad too. Players clearly unfit or carrying niggling injuries. And some of the key players from the previous seasons squad were woefully off form.
When Houllier took over I'd say 95% of us had this down as a season of transition and a mid table finish would be acceptable, and any other season that is exactly where we would be now with the points that we have amassed. However, this season there hasn't been any teams cut adrift at the bottom of the table like previous years (Portsmouth, Hull, Derby etc) and there have been some crazy results (Wolves winning at Liverpool, WBA winning at Arsenal etc) and teams around the bottom all beating each other.
Yes Houllier has made some mistakes this season, but he has also been extremely unlucky in the circumstances too.
-
Why we keep blamin mon, he went 9 months ago frog and muppet been in charge 8 months over30 games and spent30 million plus and took us to edge of relegation, they are to blame for god sake
He stripped the club of it's entire management 5 days before we kicked off, how fucking hard is that to understand? He may as well have set fire to the training ground as well, it was as close to a 'scorched earth' policy as its possible to carry out at a football club.
-
It's difficult to know for certain, but maybe one reason for our inability to hold on to leads this season is that we did less work in pre-season than other teams.
-
Now that would be very good ozzjim but I guess there will be a queue.... But I do like Ancelotti. Amazingly dignified and honest man and not a bad football coach.
Not a bad football coach?
Jesus, we are acclimnatized to managers like MON and Houllier, whereas Carletto has won the Serie A, the Premier League, the FA Cup and the Champions League: maybe he deserves to be considered something better than "not a bad football coach"!
I assume you had been on the 'pop' when you posted this?
-
Gary Mac is quoted today as saying he will make changes today and change the system, this against a football team which must feel like a wounded tiger which wants to prove its still a killer. Now is not the time for wholesale changes or we will be battered by the Arsenal and Liverpool.
-
It's difficult to know for certain, but maybe one reason for our inability to hold on to leads this season is that we did less work in pre-season than other teams.
I think it is far more basic than that. Last season we picked four defenders who loved defending, who would throw themselves in front of everything and were not expected to get too involved in anything else. We also had three centre backs and a big centre forward lined up along the 6 yard box for every set piece.
-
I think changes are need to be honest. If we go with the exact same team they will be beaten beyond all doubt in my opinion.
A freshen up could give a few players a chance to prove something. Arsenal will be hurting and a motivated team could pick them off.
The same old crabstars will not worry them at all.
-
It's difficult to know for certain, but maybe one reason for our inability to hold on to leads this season is that we did less work in pre-season than other teams.
I think it is far more basic than that. Last season we picked four defenders who loved defending, who would throw themselves in front of everything and were not expected to get too involved in anything else. We also had three centre backs and a big centre forward lined up along the 6 yard box for every set piece.
And you get the impression that most of those defenders would have run through a brick wall for O'Neill, whereas to a man they can't seem to stand Houllier. I know that's not a valid excuse but it must be easier to motivate yourself for somebody you respect than somebody you think is a joke.
-
It's difficult to know for certain, but maybe one reason for our inability to hold on to leads this season is that we did less work in pre-season than other teams.
I think it is far more basic than that. Last season we picked four defenders who loved defending, who would throw themselves in front of everything and were not expected to get too involved in anything else. We also had three centre backs and a big centre forward lined up along the 6 yard box for every set piece.
That is not a very good method of defending. For example Collins has been doing this, throwing himself in front of everything, all season however most of this was necessary because he makes basic mistakes as does his co-partner in crime Mr Dunne. We have been error prone this season at a very elementary level.
-
I've just been a bit bored, so decided to check our form out post Moscow compared to post Man City.
Moscow (match played 26th February 2009)
P12 W2 D5 L5 F14 A23 Pts11
Man City (match played 2nd March 2011)
P8 W2 D3 L3 F10 L11 Pts 9
So in 4 less matches we've almost equalled that run.
-
It's difficult to know for certain, but maybe one reason for our inability to hold on to leads this season is that we did less work in pre-season than other teams.
I think it is far more basic than that. Last season we picked four defenders who loved defending, who would throw themselves in front of everything and were not expected to get too involved in anything else. We also had three centre backs and a big centre forward lined up along the 6 yard box for every set piece.
That is not a very good method of defending.
It was very effective. I think we had the third best defensive record in the league and Dunne made the PFA team of the year.
-
O'Neill also favoured the "if in doubt whack it out" method - in otherwise don't try anything fancy if under pressure, get it out of play (an echo of which clearly went through Dunne's mind last week, albeit from the halfway line).
-
It's difficult to know for certain, but maybe one reason for our inability to hold on to leads this season is that we did less work in pre-season than other teams.
I think it is far more basic than that. Last season we picked four defenders who loved defending, who would throw themselves in front of everything and were not expected to get too involved in anything else. We also had three centre backs and a big centre forward lined up along the 6 yard box for every set piece.
And you get the impression that most of those defenders would have run through a brick wall for O'Neill, whereas to a man they can't seem to stand Houllier. I know that's not a valid excuse but it must be easier to motivate yourself for somebody you respect than somebody you think is a joke.
I don't think the players think Houllier is a joke. I'm pretty sure they don't love him, but the defenders looked pretty motivated in the Chelsea away and Man City home matches, for example.
What is certain is that our defensive record is much worse than last season. Whether it's because defenders are unfit because of a lazy pre-season; because they don't like the management; because have been given poor instructions/instructions they don't understand by the management; because we miss the defensive contributions of Cuellar and (an in-form) Warnock (and of Heskey/Carew in defensive set-pieces); or because we've lost form for other reasons, is difficult to say. I was just trying to come up with another (possible) reason.
-
Whether they like the manager or not, there is no excuse for some of the stuff we have seen from Dunne and.Collins this season, either on or off the pitch.
-
I think there are a number of contributing factors. All of tha above are credible, and I'd throw in the fact that I felt that the midfield didn't screen the back four as well as they did under O'Neill and exposed them to running opposition forwards. And once we had the run of injuries there was a rotating door in front of them (as well as having to chop and change the defence anyway). Confidence must have been low as a result and everyone got the nadgers.
-
I seriously think we need a new management team to usher in a new era for the club. Someone who going to really rip it all up.
The current playing staff, as good as some of them are, all look like dead wood to me. There is still a cloud hanging over the club that Martin O'Neill left when he walked out. Add to that, the health problems of Mr Houllier and the sheer fuckwittery of Gary McAlliister, you have to wonder if The Villa won't be in real trouble next season.
-
I think its folly to let Houllier continue unless we have one hell of an assistant in place.
However, if he stays on and feels he can do it, and if he gets rid of a lot of the players that are still mooning over O'Neill and mugging us off and replaces them well, I'm happy to see how he gets on.
Ideally though, we take any doubts out of the equation and just get a new management team we can rely on.
And what's more I still think this is what will happen.
-
To continue my boredom saving, here is where we would've been with this points total at the 36 game stage of each of the past 10 seasons and how many points clear of the relegation places -
10/11 - 14th (6 points clear)
09/10 - 14th (14 points clear)
08/09 - 12th (8 points clear)
07/08 - 13th (10 points clear)
06/07 - 13th (7 points clear)
05/06 - 16th (8 points clear) - a position we were actually in but with 3 fewer points
04/05 - 14th (11 points clear)
03/04 - 15th (10 points clear)
02/03 - 15th (4 points clear) - we were 14th and 4 points clear in this season
-
That's very interesting VillaSub and has certainly opened my eyes.
It does not, however, take into account the general malaise, lack of confidence and PR disasters that seem to afflict the current Management duo - and they are a duo, especially with Ged being away from his post.
They cannot continue into next season.
-
That's very interesting VillaSub and has certainly opened my eyes.
It does not, however, take into account the general malaise, lack of confidence and PR disasters that seem to afflict the current Management duo - and they are a duo, especially with Ged being away from his post.
They cannot continue into next season.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Houllier has made no mistakes this season, he has. However he has also had some piss poor luck this season too.
-
Chris, it was an over exaggeration certainly, but after the year we have had, it is the players that have come in this season that have saved us more than MON's team. They were clearly on the decline, held together by Milner last season much of the time. It was an ill put together squad, and Houllier has paid for it.
-
Chris, it was an over exaggeration certainly, but after the year we have had, it is the players that have come in this season that have saved us more than MON's team. They were clearly on the decline, held together by Milner last season much of the time. It was an ill put together squad, and Houllier has paid for it.
It was a team put together to play a certain way and Houllier's biggest mistake, in my opinion, was to try to change too much too quickly. I agree that we relied heavily on Milner and miss him badly, we've also suffered with injuries but we should not be where we are in the table and the management team have to take a share of responsibility.
-
Why we keep blamin mon, he went 9 months ago frog and muppet been in charge 8 months over30 games and spent30 million plus and took us to edge of relegation, they are to blame for god sake
He stripped the club of it's entire management 5 days before we kicked off, how fucking hard is that to understand? He may as well have set fire to the training ground as well, it was as close to a 'scorched earth' policy as its possible to carry out at a football club.
He not the reason for us loosing games this season, we had a manager in charge since
-
MON is the main reason this club has been in turmoil this season. And turmoil is the main reason we have struggled.
I cant believe anybody thinks otherwise.
-
MON is the main reason this club has been in turmoil this season. And turmoil is the main reason we have struggled.
I cant believe anybody thinks otherwise.
Far too simplistic.
MON was not to blame for the inept, insipid, toothless display last week, for example. We've got a lot of good players but too many times the whole does not equal the sum of the parts. That's down to the managers not making the most of what they have at their dspsal.
-
I can see what you are saying Chris, and in some respects I agree. However look at some of the key players from that side of last season -
Friedel - Age is against him, an average season for him this season at best.
Warnock - woefully off form and no interest in improving
Dunne - clearly came back overweight and unfit
Collins - off form
Cuellar - Unlucky not to have played more this season - our best central defender
Young - Key for us again this season, but each season he seems to have declined more
Petrov - Age has caught up with him now and was struggling to complete 90 mins every week
Milner - No longer with us
Downing - A revelation for us this season.
Agbonlahor - niggling injuries have caught up with him and struggled this season
Carew - No interest and forgot where the goal was.
So out of MoN's main XI last season I'd say there are 3 players who have performed well enough to be playing for a team challenging the top 7
-
MON is the main reason this club has been in turmoil this season. And turmoil is the main reason we have struggled.
I cant believe anybody thinks otherwise.
Far too simplistic.
MON was not to blame for the inept, insipid, toothless display last week, for example. We've got a lot of good players but too many times the whole does not equal the sum of the parts. That's down to the managers not making the most of what they have at their dspsal.
Ye totally agree CS. Initially we had injuries etc but having added Bent Kyle Walker and Makoun. There is no blaming MON any further. Houllier has had time to turn this team around. And he has failed miserably ......
-
MON is the main reason this club has been in turmoil this season. And turmoil is the main reason we have struggled.
I cant believe anybody thinks otherwise.
Far too simplistic.
MON was not to blame for the inept, insipid, toothless display last week, for example. We've got a lot of good players but too many times the whole does not equal the sum of the parts. That's down to the managers not making the most of what they have at their dspsal.
This seasons problems all started last summer when MoN walked out - from there it's been a snowball effect.
-
MON is the main reason this club has been in turmoil this season. And turmoil is the main reason we have struggled.
I cant believe anybody thinks otherwise.
Far too simplistic.
MON was not to blame for the inept, insipid, toothless display last week, for example. We've got a lot of good players but too many times the whole does not equal the sum of the parts. That's down to the managers not making the most of what they have at their dspsal.
Ye totally agree CS. Initially we had injuries etc but having added Bent Kyle Walker and Makoun. There is no blaming MON any further. Houllier has had time to turn this team around. And he has failed miserably ......
Has he? Since he managed to bring in Bent have a look at the form table - it's midtable form. Something I'd say this squad is capable of.
-
MON is the main reason this club has been in turmoil this season. And turmoil is the main reason we have struggled.
I cant believe anybody thinks otherwise.
Far too simplistic.
MON was not to blame for the inept, insipid, toothless display last week, for example. We've got a lot of good players but too many times the whole does not equal the sum of the parts. That's down to the managers not making the most of what they have at their dspsal.
Ye totally agree CS. Initially we had injuries etc but having added Bent Kyle Walker and Makoun. There is no blaming MON any further. Houllier has had time to turn this team around. And he has failed miserably ......
He signed them player, we were the 7th best team in the country for 14 games and then he nearly died.
-
I accept that the players have to take their share of the blame, VS, as do the board but when I try to think of much positive to say about what Houllier and co have done this season I struggle. He's been dealt a bad hand but he's compounded it by not playing it as well as he could.
-
I accept that the players have to take their share of the blame, VS, as do the board but when I try to think of much positive to say about what Houllier and co have done this season I struggle. He's been dealt a bad hand but he's compounded it by not playing it as well as he could.
As Hartman has pointed out though Chris, from when he managed to start bringing in his players and to when he got rushed to hospital we were the 7th best side in the league during that time. So you could see that things were starting to work out. Look at the Bolton away match too, 2 mistakes and a missed penalty cost us that match. Those are things you'd be crazy to blame Houllier for.
Over them matches I'd seen enough from the team to know that we were starting to head in the right direction.
-
It amazing how some people think if MON has stayed we'd have carried on more or less less as we had. Despite losing our best player and replacing him with... erm Ireland, despite being 3 stone overweight, Dunne would have been Player of the year under MON, and despite looking well past it, the likes of Carew and Heskey would have suddenly been knocking the goals in. And of course MON would never have had an injury crisis. Actually thats probably true as it pretty hard to get injured if you don't train.
-
Over them matches I'd seen enough from the team to know that we were starting to head in the right direction.
I'm not convinced. I haven't seen a good performance at home since Blackburn in February with the Wolves and Wigan games being as bad as it gets.
Yes, we're better that we were and have done enough to stay up but for the group of payers we have that's damning with faint praise.
-
It amazing how some people think if MON has stayed we'd have carried on more or less less as we had.
It's amazing that you think anyone thinks that.
The failure to invest last summer saw to that.
-
yeah and we didn't invest because we had a squad of duffers we couldn't get rid off. which explains our season and why MON jumped before he was pushed - QED.
-
Over them matches I'd seen enough from the team to know that we were starting to head in the right direction.
I'm not convinced. I haven't seen a good performance at home since Blackburn in February with the Wolves and Wigan games being as bad as it gets.
Yes, we're better that we were and have done enough to stay up but for the group of payers we have that's damning with faint praise.
Out of interest, with the players we have, where should we be?
-
Ah but the failure to invest was down in large part down to MON being stubborn over cutting the wage bill with players that he had refused to play when the squad was on its knees last season. It all comes back to him eventually.
-
yeah and we didn't invest because we had a squad of duffers we couldn't get rid off. which is explains our season and why MON jumped before he was pushed - QED.
Yep, that's the spin that all those who spent two years hoping for MON to fail have put on it. The fact is that, for whatever reason, business decisions took precedence over football ones and we've paid the price for it with a truly abysmal season.
-
Over them matches I'd seen enough from the team to know that we were starting to head in the right direction.
I'm not convinced. I haven't seen a good performance at home since Blackburn in February with the Wolves and Wigan games being as bad as it gets.
Yes, we're better that we were and have done enough to stay up but for the group of payers we have that's damning with faint praise.
Out of interest, with the players we have, where should we be?
Not 14th & only 3 points above relegation going into the last week of the season, no matter who was/is the Manager
-
Ah but the failure to invest was down in large part down to MON being stubborn over cutting the wage bill with players that he had refused to play when the squad was on its knees last season. It all comes back to him eventually.
If you say so..............
-
Ah but the failure to invest was down in large part down to MON being stubborn over cutting the wage bill with players that he had refused to play when the squad was on its knees last season. It all comes back to him eventually.
Sorry, Ozz, that just isn't true.
The General said at the time that MON had agreed to to the need to sell players, we made them available but in a depressed market we were unable to shift enough of them. He then appeared to want to buy his players regardless and was told no so he fucked off.
Since then we have sold a few so there was nothing wrong with them but by sticking to the policy dogmatically last summer we effectively gave up on the season.
-
Over them matches I'd seen enough from the team to know that we were starting to head in the right direction.
I'm not convinced. I haven't seen a good performance at home since Blackburn in February with the Wolves and Wigan games being as bad as it gets.
Yes, we're better that we were and have done enough to stay up but for the group of payers we have that's damning with faint praise.
Out of interest, with the players we have, where should we be?
Not 14th & only 3 points above relegation going into the last week of the season, no matter who was/is the Manager
Where then?
-
Over them matches I'd seen enough from the team to know that we were starting to head in the right direction.
I'm not convinced. I haven't seen a good performance at home since Blackburn in February with the Wolves and Wigan games being as bad as it gets.
Yes, we're better that we were and have done enough to stay up but for the group of payers we have that's damning with faint praise.
Out of interest, with the players we have, where should we be?
We should be in the top 8. There are only 6 clubs that, on paper, have better squads than us.
-
Ah but the failure to invest was down in large part down to MON being stubborn over cutting the wage bill with players that he had refused to play when the squad was on its knees last season. It all comes back to him eventually.
Sorry, Ozz, that just isn't true.
The General said at the time that MON had agreed to to the need to sell players, we made them available but in a depressed market we were unable to shift enough of them. He then appeared to want to buy his players regardless and was told no so he fucked off.
Since then we have sold a few so there was nothing wrong with them but by sticking to the policy dogmatically last summer we effectively gave up on the season.
So you think Randy should've paid out even more money on players then? Increasing the wage bill even more?
-
Over them matches I'd seen enough from the team to know that we were starting to head in the right direction.
I'm not convinced. I haven't seen a good performance at home since Blackburn in February with the Wolves and Wigan games being as bad as it gets.
Yes, we're better that we were and have done enough to stay up but for the group of payers we have that's damning with faint praise.
Out of interest, with the players we have, where should we be?
We should be in the top 8. There are only 6 clubs that, on paper, have better squads than us.
Just a shame football isn't played "on paper" then.
-
Comfortably top 10, probably scrapping it out for the top 6 and 7 with Everton and Spurs like we usually do. We just can't go into the summer with Houllier still in charge. Even if you don't think he's shit, we just can't take the chance that his health will fail again and drop us in it. A whole season with McAllister in charge is unthinkable.
-
Its very easy to put yourself into MON's mindset last August.
You've lost your best player in Milner, one that the whole team revolved around. You've got players like Petrov, Friedal, Carew and Heskey that are on the wane and need replacing - well thats the best part of 25m at the cheapest and probably another 200k a week in wages. you could probably do with a few defenders as well, but Randy's not going to give you more money for defenders when you've wasted millions on Curtis "England International" Davies and Beye. There's a few decent players in the reserves who could do a job for now, but hang on, you've banished the likes of NRC and Luke Young to the naughty corner and bringing them back would involve a massive loss of face, and the rest of the reserves are for want of a better word, shite.
He knew the writing was on the wall and I'm surprised he lasted to August really.
-
Over them matches I'd seen enough from the team to know that we were starting to head in the right direction.
I'm not convinced. I haven't seen a good performance at home since Blackburn in February with the Wolves and Wigan games being as bad as it gets.
Yes, we're better that we were and have done enough to stay up but for the group of payers we have that's damning with faint praise.
Out of interest, with the players we have, where should we be?
We should be in the top 8. There are only 6 clubs that, on paper, have better squads than us.
Just a shame football isn't played "on paper" then.
I bet you were dying to say that. Open goals for predictable football cliches aside though, he's right.
-
Comfortably top 10, probably scrapping it out for the top 6 and 7 with Everton and Spurs like we usually do. We just can't go into the summer with Houllier still in charge. Even if you don't think he's shit, we just can't take the chance that his health will fail again and drop us in it. A whole season with McAllister in charge is unthinkable.
On the health issue Risso I am in agreement - if there is just 1% chance that his health is seriously at risk doing the job then he should stand down. Not for the club but for himself and his family.
The squad we had up to January was good enough for Top 6 last season. However with the other squads improving and our squad getting weaker that was down to probably a squad good enough for 8th, providing they played as well as last season. However that has happened (Do I really need to go through Dunne, Gabby, Carew et al again?) so from there I'd say a squad good enough for 10th-12th. Then throw in the injury crisis we had, the upheaval after MoN fucking off and now with Houllier being rushed to hospital. I'd say that 14th is probably about par for that.
Oh, and I whole heartedly agree about McAllister - I don't want to contemplate a season with him in charge.
-
Ah but the failure to invest was down in large part down to MON being stubborn over cutting the wage bill with players that he had refused to play when the squad was on its knees last season. It all comes back to him eventually.
Sorry, Ozz, that just isn't true.
The General said at the time that MON had agreed to to the need to sell players, we made them available but in a depressed market we were unable to shift enough of them. He then appeared to want to buy his players regardless and was told no so he fucked off.
Since then we have sold a few so there was nothing wrong with them but by sticking to the policy dogmatically last summer we effectively gave up on the season.
So you think Randy should've paid out even more money on players then? Increasing the wage bill even more?
Yes, absolutely, how else were we going to keep pace with our competitors?
There was a decision to be made in August when we hadn't managed to sell players. Do business concerns take precedence and we stick with the policy or do football issues win and we sign the players? It's obvious which side came out on top.
-
Over them matches I'd seen enough from the team to know that we were starting to head in the right direction.
I'm not convinced. I haven't seen a good performance at home since Blackburn in February with the Wolves and Wigan games being as bad as it gets.
Yes, we're better that we were and have done enough to stay up but for the group of payers we have that's damning with faint praise.
Out of interest, with the players we have, where should we be?
We should be in the top 8. There are only 6 clubs that, on paper, have better squads than us.
Just a shame football isn't played "on paper" then.
I bet you were dying to say that. Open goals for predictable football cliches aside though, he's right.
We're actually only 4 points off 8th.
-
Ah but the failure to invest was down in large part down to MON being stubborn over cutting the wage bill with players that he had refused to play when the squad was on its knees last season. It all comes back to him eventually.
Sorry, Ozz, that just isn't true.
The General said at the time that MON had agreed to to the need to sell players, we made them available but in a depressed market we were unable to shift enough of them. He then appeared to want to buy his players regardless and was told no so he fucked off.
Since then we have sold a few so there was nothing wrong with them but by sticking to the policy dogmatically last summer we effectively gave up on the season.
So you think Randy should've paid out even more money on players then? Increasing the wage bill even more?
Yes, absolutely, how else were we going to keep pace with our competitors?
There was a decision to be made in August when we hadn't managed to sell players. Do business concerns take precedence and we stick with the policy or do football issues win and we sign the players? It's obvious which side came out on top.
Did you see our wage bill??? it couldn't carry on like that. we're not Man Citeh
-
Ah but the failure to invest was down in large part down to MON being stubborn over cutting the wage bill with players that he had refused to play when the squad was on its knees last season. It all comes back to him eventually.
Sorry, Ozz, that just isn't true.
The General said at the time that MON had agreed to to the need to sell players, we made them available but in a depressed market we were unable to shift enough of them. He then appeared to want to buy his players regardless and was told no so he fucked off.
Since then we have sold a few so there was nothing wrong with them but by sticking to the policy dogmatically last summer we effectively gave up on the season.
So you think Randy should've paid out even more money on players then? Increasing the wage bill even more?
Yes, absolutely, how else were we going to keep pace with our competitors?
There was a decision to be made in August when we hadn't managed to sell players. Do business concerns take precedence and we stick with the policy or do football issues win and we sign the players? It's obvious which side came out on top.
And then again this summer if we couldn't get rid of the players we should do the same again?
Randy is not a bottomless pit of money, eventually the paying out of money and not bringing enough in to cover them costs will see us go the route of Portsmouth and Leeds.
-
How much has it cost us in prize money by finishing as low down the table as this? How much less attractive are we to new sponsors? How harder us it for us to keep hold of our best players? How much has gate money dropped down to us being crap to watch?
-
MON is the main reason this club has been in turmoil this season. And turmoil is the main reason we have struggled.
I cant believe anybody thinks otherwise.
Far too simplistic.
MON was not to blame for the inept, insipid, toothless display last week, for example. We've got a lot of good players but too many times the whole does not equal the sum of the parts. That's down to the managers not making the most of what they have at their dspsal.
It's not too simplistic. O'Neill is the main reason the club was/is in turmoil. I can't believe that can be argued.
The inspid display last week is part due to McAllister being a poor manager and the team with too many gobshites that MON bought.
Obviously I'm not absolving the current management team of any blame. That would be silly.
But when I see people basically saying what's tantamount to "forget MON now, it's nothing to do with him..." its fucking bollocks.
It will take years possibly to rectify the damage he's done to this club.
For the record, I hope a completely new management team in the summer but not as much as I want rid of all the parasitic, gutless, unprofessional wasters that are draining our resources and mugging us off with substandard performances. Or are simply not good enough.
-
we'd need to win the double and the CL to cover the wage bill in sponsership deals and prize money
-
There is no way of knowing that.
But if MoN had stayed and signed Robbie Keane and McGeady (both of whom we were heavily linked with) as well as Ireland. And continued sticking with the same XI players week in week out, where do you think we'd have finished? Remember there would've been no goals from Bent to add in. Just from Gabby with his niggling injuries and the goal machines that are Carew, Heskey and Keane.
-
The thing with the comparative merits of the squad 'on paper' is that it doesn't take certain things into account.
Nothing there suggests Dunne came back from a summer off unfit and overweight.
Nothing there suggests Ireland was going to turn out to be as mad as a box of frogs.
Nothing there suggests Warnock was going to go into meltdown over being asked to live in the midlands.
I'll stop there but you get the point.
All of these problems existed before Houllier was around, coming into a club with a lot of issues like this with the season already underway and with a lot of fans who saw you named as manager and instantly thought 'ah fuck, don't want him'.
The reality is he came in to a very difficult job, made a couple of mistakes early on and had the worst injury crisis the club has seen for years to deal with which left us well in the relegation battle at the turn of the year.
He then brought in a striker we've been crying out for, a very good attacking full back and a midfielder who will turn out to be a great signing but needs to get used to the league. Since then we've looked far from a relegation battler, have played some good stuff and had got ourselves into a position where we were looking up not down. That this all fell apart when he got taken into hospital has left us hanging on a little again but there was enough shown in the period after signing bent and before he got sick to suggest he can get us up there challenging.
As for the wolves game, look at the defence we had in that game, I defy anyone to blame the manager for that situation, not a lot you can do with most of the defenders in the squad injured, suspended or looking poor at reserve team level. Wigan was after he got sick so can lie at the feet of GM who I agree needs to be replaced.
-
Ah but the failure to invest was down in large part down to MON being stubborn over cutting the wage bill with players that he had refused to play when the squad was on its knees last season. It all comes back to him eventually.
Sorry, Ozz, that just isn't true.
The General said at the time that MON had agreed to to the need to sell players, we made them available but in a depressed market we were unable to shift enough of them. He then appeared to want to buy his players regardless and was told no so he fucked off.
Since then we have sold a few so there was nothing wrong with them but by sticking to the policy dogmatically last summer we effectively gave up on the season.
So you think Randy should've paid out even more money on players then? Increasing the wage bill even more?
Yes, absolutely, how else were we going to keep pace with our competitors?
There was a decision to be made in August when we hadn't managed to sell players. Do business concerns take precedence and we stick with the policy or do football issues win and we sign the players? It's obvious which side came out on top.
And I thought your cavalier attitude to debt and spending money you don't have was restricted to political threads!!
I hope you have a thorough understanding of bankruptcy laws because if you take this approach in your personal life you'll be making use of them.
-
To be fair to chris, the club fostered this sort of feeling that we had a bottomless pit of money with talk of 30m players. My understanding was the board would back MON with signing players. The trouble they had with MON was he was buying too many players on 30k per week who never even featured in the 1st team
-
There is no way of knowing that.
But if MoN had stayed and signed Robbie Keane and McGeady (both of whom we were heavily linked with) as well as Ireland. And continued sticking with the same XI players week in week out, where do you think we'd have finished? Remember there would've been no goals from Bent to add in. Just from Gabby with his niggling injuries and the goal machines that are Carew, Heskey and Keane.
Sixth, if he'd been allowed to sign the players he'd wanted and we wouldn't have lost to the Blues, Albion and Wolves all in the same season.
That's not my argument though, it's that we should have done better than we have. By keep harking back to MON walking out we are giving them excuses for a woeful performance on and off the pitch.
-
We're actually only 4 points off 8th.
We've heard that a lot this season. "Only x amounts of points off xth [uninspiring] place". We've never, ever looked like being comfortably top half, and more worrying is that with two games left, we're still only three points above the trapdoor. It would take a ridiculous combination of results for us to go down, but the fact that it's still possible at this stage shows what an utter disaster Houllier has been. the only good thing to come out of this season is that Lerner obviously decided that we needed Darren Bent to keep us up, so broke the bank to keep us up. Hopefully a new, much better manager will reap the benefits of this. If we'd been comfortably top 10 in January I really don't think we'd have gone for Bent.
-
We're actually only 4 points off 8th.
We've heard that a lot this season. "Only x amounts of points off xth [uninspiring] place". We've never, ever looked like being comfortably top half, and more worrying is that with two games left, we're still only three points above the trapdoor. It would take a ridiculous combination of results for us to go down, but the fact that it's still possible at this stage shows what an utter disaster Houllier has been. the only good thing to come out of this season is that Lerner obviously decided that we needed Darren Bent to keep us up, so broke the bank to keep us up. Hopefully a new, much better manager will reap the benefits of this. If we'd been comfortably top 10 in January I really don't think we'd have gone for Bent.
Absolutely.
Randy's put a shit load of money in to the club and can clearly do what the hell he likes as a result. I just hope that he appreciates that not all decisions work out for the best and moves le Gaffeur on before things get any worse.
-
I do find it amusing that some of the people who were last season saying that MON under performed given the players he'd been able to sign are now making excuses for the complete fuck up this time with largely the same group with an £18m striker added and Milner gone.
It hasn't been good enough.
-
There is no way of knowing that.
But if MoN had stayed and signed Robbie Keane and McGeady (both of whom we were heavily linked with) as well as Ireland. And continued sticking with the same XI players week in week out, where do you think we'd have finished? Remember there would've been no goals from Bent to add in. Just from Gabby with his niggling injuries and the goal machines that are Carew, Heskey and Keane.
Sixth, if he'd been allowed to sign the players he'd wanted and we wouldn't have lost to the Blues, Albion and Wolves all in the same season.
That's not my argument though, it's that we should have done better than we have. By keep harking back to MON walking out we are giving them excuses for a woeful performance on and off the pitch.
There is no way of knowing that we'd have beaten Wolves, Albion and Blues though is there? And you think them players would be enough to finish above Spurs or Liverpool too? That would be like me saying that if we hadn't have had the injury crisis we did have that we'd be 8th now - there is no way of knowing for sure. We can guess, that is all.
The problems of this season all started last summer with MoN - there is no way of denying that.
H
-
I do find it amusing that some of the people who were last season saying that MON under performed given the players he'd been able to sign are now making excuses for the complete fuck up this time with largely the same group with an £18m striker added and Milner gone.
It hasn't been good enough.
Absolutely. And in the same vein, some of O'Neill's staunchest supporters last season now apparently thinking that everything he did was shit is equally baffling. (Not you Chris).
-
We're actually only 4 points off 8th.
We've heard that a lot this season. "Only x amounts of points off xth [uninspiring] place". We've never, ever looked like being comfortably top half, and more worrying is that with two games left, we're still only three points above the trapdoor. It would take a ridiculous combination of results for us to go down, but the fact that it's still possible at this stage shows what an utter disaster Houllier has been. the only good thing to come out of this season is that Lerner obviously decided that we needed Darren Bent to keep us up, so broke the bank to keep us up. Hopefully a new, much better manager will reap the benefits of this. If we'd been comfortably top 10 in January I really don't think we'd have gone for Bent.
I can see what you are saying Risso, and I agree that with 2 games to go there should be no mathematical chance that we could go down. But look at the bigger picture for a second - our form between the signing of Bent and Houllier being rushed into hospital was the 7th best in the league. Throw in with that the freak of a match that was Bolton away too and it would've been even better. Houllier has made mistakes this season, there is no getting away from that fact. However he has also done some good things too and the team was starting to show a bit of promise.
The point I am trying to make though is to look at the other factors he has had to contend with this season - injuries, unfit players, players who do not give a flying fuck about the club. In those circumstances we are exactly where we deserve to be - around mid table. If results go our way over the next week we could finish top half. Something I'm sure all of us would've accepted at the start of the season.
-
If MON had stayed and agreed to cut his spending, i reckon we'd have finished about 8th to 11th. He would have kept the tactics as they were so simpletons like Dunne could understand them. The better defence would have made up for the lack of goals, we'd have been able to name the starting XI each week as per usual. This summer, a lot of the non-playing reserves would have been written off and a few more solid over-paid pro's from the premiership brought in along with one or two 21 caret duffers, ready for another charge for the Europa places, the limit his style of football is capable of.
Great.
-
The problems of this season all started last summer with MoN - there is no way of denying that.
They started when we decided not to sign any players, they were made ten times worse when he walked out.
However, since then it has been about a football manager doing what he is paid to do. If he can only succeed when things are easy then he's not earning his money.
-
I do find it amusing that some of the people who were last season saying that MON under performed given the players he'd been able to sign are now making excuses for the complete fuck up this time with largely the same group with an £18m striker added and Milner gone.
It hasn't been good enough.
My main argument with MoN was his failure to learn from his mistakes (every season we fucked up from March onwards) and his lack of a clinical goalscorer (we relied too heavily on a 1 good game in 4 Carew and Gabby). Had we signed Darren Bent instead of Heskey, for example, I think we'd have got into the Champions League that season.
My argument about the squad between this season and last is the fact that for the first half of the season we had a weaker squad than that of last season, added to the fact that the likes of Tottenham and Man City had improved their squad. With the addition of Bent and Makoun to the squad I think we are maybe on around par with the squad last season. Which still is weaker than the teams we have been competing with over the past couple of years. (Petrov getting slower, unfit Dunne etc).
-
The problems of this season all started last summer with MoN - there is no way of denying that.
They started when we decided not to sign any players, they were made ten times worse when he walked out.
However, since then it has been about a football manager doing what he is paid to do. If he can only succeed when things are easy then he's not earning his money.
Do you think MoN would've handled the injury crisis any better than Houllier did?
-
Was just watching Rangers win the league and if their were no over inspiring options, would Walter Smith be worth a go? Very Alex Ferguson esc (All be it north of the border)
-
I have just about had enough of this crazy notion that Houllier is responsible for our current position. We have a squad of highly paid proffesional footballers. We can play good attactive football under Houllier, better than the dross MON coached.
How many tackes has Houllier missed ? How many 10 - 15 yard passes has he crashed into the opposition? How many corners has he belted into the front defender or lobbed over the back of the 18 yard box.? How may free kicks has he smashed into row F?
Non ladies. and you can bet your bottom dollar they arnt coached to do any of this, yet we see it every week.
Blame the players, not the coaching staff. The sooner they are put on incentive payment/wages the better.
On another brief note, is it me, or can Petrov not kick a ball properly. He always seems to flick it from under his body with the side of his foot?
-
Off the top of my head, the figures for our squads wages were 85% of turnover last season - had Randy just decided "fuck it" and agreed to the signing of McGeady and Keane or whoever it was that MoN wanted we'd be looking at a figure of probably around 100% of turnover. You really cannot run a business (and that is essentially what a football club is) like that. Eventually we'd be going the same route as Portsmouth and Leeds.
-
Was just watching Rangers win the league and if their were no over inspiring options, would Walter Smith be worth a go? Very Alex Ferguson esc (All be it north of the border)
As with most things Scottish, they can't always do it south of the border.
-
Was just watching Rangers win the league and if their were no over inspiring options, would Walter Smith be worth a go? Very Alex Ferguson esc (All be it north of the border)
As with most things Scottish, they can't always do it south of the border.
Indeed. He was a disaster at Everton.
-
So, Brisbane, what does a manager do to earn his money if results are not his responsibility?
-
Smith never worked out at Everton, and I've seen nothing since then to make me think he would succeed now either.
I also think he is retiring now, hence the reason he is leaving as Rangers boss.
-
I can see what you are saying Risso, and I agree that with 2 games to go there should be no mathematical chance that we could go down. But look at the bigger picture for a second - our form between the signing of Bent and Houllier being rushed into hospital was the 7th best in the league. Throw in with that the freak of a match that was Bolton away too and it would've been even better. Houllier has made mistakes this season, there is no getting away from that fact. However he has also done some good things too and the team was starting to show a bit of promise.
You know what they say, there's lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Bent made his debut against Man City and including that one we had 11 league games before Houllier went in to hospital. In that period we played Wigan, Fulham, Blackpool, Blackburn, Bolton, Wolves, Newcastle and West Ham. In any of the last three seasons I would've expected us to win almost all of those but this season we won just 4.
To say we had the 7th best form over that period is completely misrepresentative when during that period we didn't have to play Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool or Spurs.
-
Off the top of my head, the figures for our squads wages were 85% of turnover last season - had Randy just decided "fuck it" and agreed to the signing of McGeady and Keane or whoever it was that MoN wanted we'd be looking at a figure of probably around 100% of turnover. You really cannot run a business (and that is essentially what a football club is) like that. Eventually we'd be going the same route as Portsmouth and Leeds.
Correct. If the manager wanted new fuel he had to clean his own pipes. You cant blame Randy. MON had enough funding and would have had more after some much needed reorgansiation of misused assets and resources.
-
Off the top of my head, the figures for our squads wages were 85% of turnover last season - had Randy just decided "fuck it" and agreed to the signing of McGeady and Keane or whoever it was that MoN wanted we'd be looking at a figure of probably around 100% of turnover. You really cannot run a business (and that is essentially what a football club is) like that. Eventually we'd be going the same route as Portsmouth and Leeds.
But we managed to sell players in January so it would only have been at that level for a few months, I'm arguing that a bit of flexibility in the summer might have given us a better season.
-
I have just about had enough of this crazy notion that Houllier is responsible for our current position. We have a squad of highly paid proffesional footballers. We can play good attactive football under Houllier, better than the dross MON coached.
How many tackes has Houllier missed ? How many 10 - 15 yard passes has he crashed into the opposition? How many corners has he belted into the front defender or lobbed over the back of the 18 yard box.? How may free kicks has he smashed into row F?
Non ladies. and you can bet your bottom dollar they arnt coached to do any of this, yet we see it every week.
Blame the players, not the coaching staff. The sooner they are put on incentive payment/wages the better.
On another brief note, is it me, or can Petrov not kick a ball properly. He always seems to flick it from under his body with the side of his foot?
So why does he persist in letting the player who does this take them instead of saying, "You are not doing what I have coached on the pitch so someone else can have a try instead." A Manager needs to make the difficult decisions for the good of the team whether that is too piss off a player who is holding the club to ransom or to say sorry to another player to get them playing again. It is a tight call and why most managers cannot cut it.
-
I can see what you are saying Risso, and I agree that with 2 games to go there should be no mathematical chance that we could go down. But look at the bigger picture for a second - our form between the signing of Bent and Houllier being rushed into hospital was the 7th best in the league. Throw in with that the freak of a match that was Bolton away too and it would've been even better. Houllier has made mistakes this season, there is no getting away from that fact. However he has also done some good things too and the team was starting to show a bit of promise.
You know what they say, there's lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Bent made his debut against Man City and including that one we had 11 league games before Houllier went in to hospital. In that period we played Wigan, Fulham, Blackpool, Blackburn, Bolton, Wolves, Newcastle and West Ham. In any of the last three seasons I would've expected us to win almost all of those but this season we won just 4.
To say we had the 7th best form over that period is completely misrepresentative when during that period we didn't have to play Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool or Spurs.
That is true, we had a fairly decent run of games "on paper" in that run - on the other foot we had a shit run of matches between Houllier taking over and us signing Bent (2 matches v Man Utd, Chelsea & Spurs etc), and the only true and fair "form" guide will be revealed at around 6pm next Sunday.
-
I'd save you're breath Villasubmariner. Its too complicated for them to consider variables like injuries, other clubs improving, players getting old etc.. into the equation. no doubt in 1981 when we finished 10 places down on the preceeding season they were all saying "but its the same side that won the league"
-
Off the top of my head, the figures for our squads wages were 85% of turnover last season - had Randy just decided "fuck it" and agreed to the signing of McGeady and Keane or whoever it was that MoN wanted we'd be looking at a figure of probably around 100% of turnover. You really cannot run a business (and that is essentially what a football club is) like that. Eventually we'd be going the same route as Portsmouth and Leeds.
But we managed to sell players in January so it would only have been at that level for a few months, I'm arguing that a bit of flexibility in the summer might have given us a better season.
Out of the 6 players MoN was believed to have been told to get rid of we sold 1 in January (Davies), with Shorey leaving back in the Summer. Do you believe, had MoN still been here, that Ireland and Carew would've left in January too?
EDIT - forgot about Sidwell, not that that is surprising!
-
That would have been 1982.
-
I'd save you're breath Villasubmariner. Its too complicated for them to consider variables like injuries, other clubs improving, players getting old etc.. into the equation. no doubt in 1981 when we finished 10 places down on the preceeding season they were all saying "but its the same side that won the league"
I doubt we were saying that in 1981. 82 maybe but then they won the Euro Cup so the extra matches in that plus the turmoil of a change in manager could have been an excuse.
-
aye. point stands though.
-
Know way off knowing, VS.
If they had the time over and knowing how it turned out do you think the board would be so inflexible again?
-
I'd save you're breath Villasubmariner. Its too complicated for them to consider variables like injuries, other clubs improving, players getting old etc.. into the equation. no doubt in 1981 when we finished 10 places down on the preceeding season they were all saying "but its the same side that won the league"
I doubt we were saying that in 1981. 82 maybe but then they won the Euro Cup so the extra matches in that plus the turmoil of a change in manager could have been an excuse.
aye, the turmoil of a change in manager as compared to 3 this season.
-
aye. point stands though.
Are you trying to suggest that Houllier has done the best that he possibly could? That none of this pig's ear of a season is down to him?
It's a distraction and not helpful for you to keep bringing MON into it. Houllier should be judged on his own performance and we have a right to expect better.
-
O'Neill leaving didn't help matters, but Houllier has made enough absolute howlers himself to make me think that even if he gets another two years, he'll be just as useless. Dropping Cuellar after a great performance, for the abject Dunne, persisting with Young as a forward, playing Gabby out wide, chucking in the towel at Man City - the hallmarks of a manager way, way past his best, which is what I thought he was when he arrived.
-
Know way off knowing, VS.
If they had the time over and knowing how it turned out do you think the board would be so inflexible again?
Towards MoN? Then yes I do think they'd have stood their ground. And it's something they should've done. How weak would Randy have looked if he was bullied into spending the money by MoN?
-
I'd save you're breath Villasubmariner. Its too complicated for them to consider variables like injuries, other clubs improving, players getting old etc.. into the equation. no doubt in 1981 when we finished 10 places down on the preceeding season they were all saying "but its the same side that won the league"
Maybe not then , but 3 yrs later once our midfield had been disassembled and replaced with "kids that are our future" (I wonder where I have heard that one before) I bet they were (in fact I was !)
1981 - midfield Cowans , Bremner , Morley , Mortmer 1986 - midfield Hodge (spit) , McMahon , and two of any number of kids
2010 - midfield Barry (gone) Milner (gone) Young (going) Petrov (going) -
1981 - no nonsense manager, done his way, or no way at att.
1986 - started with inexperienced manager totally our of his depth, then changed to a manager who clearly wanted to be at a different club to the one he was actual at.
Similarities are frightening aren't they ?
-
Know way off knowing, VS.
If they had the time over and knowing how it turned out do you think the board would be so inflexible again?
If they had the time over do you think they'd have employed Houllier?
-
O'Neill leaving didn't help matters, but Houllier has made enough absolute howlers himself to make me think that even if he gets another two years, he'll be just as useless. Dropping Cuellar after a great performance, for the abject Dunne, persisting with Young as a forward, playing Gabby out wide, chucking in the towel at Man City - the hallmarks of a manager way, way past his best, which is what I thought he was when he arrived.
I agree with every single point you've made their Risso about his mistakes. A couple of them he has since rectified though. (Putting Young back out wide and moving Gabby into the middle).
But I also think that come this Summer, with the chance to get rid of the wasters like Dunne, Warnock, Ireland and the probability that Ashley will be on his way, then he'd bring in the players that would've improved us for next season.
-
aye. point stands though.
Are you trying to suggest that Houllier has done the best that he possibly could? That none of this pig's ear of a season is down to him?
It's a distraction and not helpful for you to keep bringing MON into it. Houllier should be judged on his own performance and we have a right to expect better.
GH has made plenty of mistakes. I doubt even his biggest supporter would claim otherwise, BUT to blindly go around saying this is a top 6th side because thats where it finished the last few seasons is daft. Yes, we've done less well than under MON and this side would probably have finished higher playing MON's patent hoofball and with none of the off the pitch distractions but I dispute this team would have finished 6th this coming season if MON had stayed in charge. Add in the injury problems GH has suffered and i reckon we'd be 6 points better off at best.
-
Well we will never know, because MON jumped ship as soon as he never got his own way.
-
I honestly cant believe people are coming up with all kinds of excuses for this season.
Unfortunately, we WERE a top six side - that is a 100% undeniable fact. We hadn'r just finished top 6 last season, we did it the season before, and we did it the season before that as well. Then I hear the "the players are too old" - que ? - who is too old ? - because I have just seen a team win the league with a goalie older than ours , two midfielders 3 yrs older than any of our outfield players (bar Pires). Our players are NOT too old - and if they are, why have we offerred the oldest one a new contract ?
And then we have the injuries - we had absolute horrendous injuries in October and November that is no doubt.
However am I imaging this or did the players threaten to walk out because they had told the management the new "fitness regime" was not working and they wouldn't listen>
Oh - just seem team for today - much better than the predictions
We then have the positional play. Now you cant blame Houllier for young in the middle - as MON also did it - but when he does - who does he put on the wing - Agbonlahor ? - even though Downing is a left winger and Albrighton is a right winger - no , he puts Gabby, a right footed centre forward on the left wing - and then wonders why it didn't work.
Listen , Houllier may come back in July, but a couple more players and turn us into Barcelona - winning every game - he could do - no one knows what will happen next year.
But this year - don't try and convince me it has been OK, and the management haven't made a total balls up of it - because it is plainly obvious it has been crap - and they have !
-
MON is the main reason this club has been in turmoil this season. And turmoil is the main reason we have struggled.
I cant believe anybody thinks otherwise.
Far too simplistic.
MON was not to blame for the inept, insipid, toothless display last week, for example. We've got a lot of good players but too many times the whole does not equal the sum of the parts. That's down to the managers not making the most of what they have at their dspsal.
It's not too simplistic. O'Neill is the main reason the club was/is in turmoil. I can't believe that can be argued.
The inspid display last week is part due to McAllister being a poor manager and the team with too many gobshites that MON bought.
Obviously I'm not absolving the current management team of any blame. That would be silly.
But when I see people basically saying what's tantamount to "forget MON now, it's nothing to do with him..." its fucking bollocks.
It will take years possibly to rectify the damage he's done to this club.
For the record, I hope a completely new management team in the summer but not as much as I want rid of all the parasitic, gutless, unprofessional wasters that are draining our resources and mugging us off with substandard performances. Or are simply not good enough.
Totally agree, sums it all up nicely.
-
Can you enlighten me
Who are these gobshites you talk about ? please name them coz I cant
-
aye. point stands though.
Are you trying to suggest that Houllier has done the best that he possibly could? That none of this pig's ear of a season is down to him?
It's a distraction and not helpful for you to keep bringing MON into it. Houllier should be judged on his own performance and we have a right to expect better.
GH has made plenty of mistakes. I doubt even his biggest supporter would claim otherwise, BUT to blindly go around saying this is a top 6th side because thats where it finished the last few seasons is daft. Yes, we've done less well than under MON and this side would probably have finished higher playing MON's patent hoofball and with none of the off the pitch distractions but I dispute this team would have finished 6th this coming season if MON had stayed in charge. Add in the injury problems GH has suffered and i reckon we'd be 6 points better off at best.
Nobody has claimed that you numpty. I said if he'd been allowed to spend then I'd have fancied us for sixth, without that I reckon we'd be around eighth - you can't tell me that Everton, Stoke or Bolton have a better team than us.
-
For those who want Wilkins - I'd take him......
only for the fact it would get him off Sky Sports as a pundit - he's bloody awful !
-
we WERE a top 6 side. we lost that as soon as milner went and wasn't replaced. Also, It was obvious to anyone with eyes last season that the likes of petrov were struggling to continue to play MON's high tempo way for 90 minutes. players get old, fact of life and with or without MON in change, Petrov's performance level was declining. Factor in Dunne's summer spent in Gregg's - nothing to do with GH - would MON have played him? or maybe the sheer inspiration of playing for MON would have negated the fact he was carrying around 3 spare tyres............
-
I think it is utterly facile to blame Houllier entirely for the way things are. Our players are for the most part total c***s as was our ex-manager for walking out. When you see people earning more than we can dream of behaving like our ex-manager and players then it shows what a sack of shit football and our team has become. I cannot believe some people (and I am speaking about one or two people who have actually stated this utterly ridiculous statement) actually believe the players should be absolved of all blame! Fuck me! Most fans of this club don't earn 1/3 in a year of what ****** like Dunne get in a week. Indeed there are people who support Villa who can't get or are losing their jobs and struggling to get by. Why the hell should people who are earning so much be so unprofessional and act like spoiled kids? No one should be absolved from blame for this ****** of a season from the board to the management to the players and to the former management. Some more than others but still many are to blame.
But, the fact remains despite all the mitigation that Houllier has made too many mistakes, too many poor decisions and done so many infuriating things that I hope he is out the door not much far behind some of our players. If you look at the stats like some of the ones Bazz has posted you do see it has probably not been as bad as some people on here have made out and I admit I am one of the people who have been thinking that way. We have gained more points than many other teams in the second half of the season but it has not been good this season IMO.
-
we WERE a top 6 side. we lost that as soon as milner went and wasn't replaced. Also, It was obvious to anyone with eyes last season that the likes of petrov were struggling to continue to play MON's high tempo way for 90 minutes. players get old, fact of life and with or without MON in change, Petrov's performance level was declining. Factor in Dunne's summer spent in Gregg's - nothing to do with GH - would MON have played him? or maybe the sheer inspiration of playing for MON would have negated the fact he was carrying around 3 spare tyres............
OK , so you say it was plainly obvious to one and all that Petrov can't cope .
So can I ask why Houllier has bought not one but TWO central midfielders AND PETROV IS STILL IN THE SIDE
INCLUDING TODAY WHEN MAKOUN AND BRADLEY ARE ON THE BENCH
Or, has Houllier a) made a mistake and Petrov has still got enough
or
b) He has just bought (or in one case it depends what you believe whether it is bought, loan or loan to buy) two players that are not good enough for the league.
Wierd really isnt it !
-
simple. GH isn't asking petrov to play MON's way
-
simple. GH isn't asking petrov to play MON's way
I would argue we have recently. The two wins against West Ham and Newcastle were played with a 4-4-2 and also recently we have started the same way under GMac.
-
O'Neill leaving didn't help matters, but Houllier has made enough absolute howlers himself to make me think that even if he gets another two years, he'll be just as useless. Dropping Cuellar after a great performance, for the abject Dunne, persisting with Young as a forward, playing Gabby out wide, chucking in the towel at Man City - the hallmarks of a manager way, way past his best, which is what I thought he was when he arrived.
In addition at this age and with his health history he is not one for the long term.
-
Again
I am going to say it
So someone has just mentioned Richard Dunne as a you know what.
Is this the same Richard Dunne who got 2nd in the player of the year in our best season for 30 yrs and got into the Premier team of the year ?
Is this the same Richard Dunne who is sooooooooooooooooooooooo bad, can still keep Carlos Cueller - the fans favourite - out of the team.
So come on tell me - is Cueller crap and no one will admit it , Dunne playing well - or your beloved Gerard just not spotting what you are saying is clear ?
enlighten me - please - coz all I can see is these "gobshites" were out of the team when we were pathetic , and have come back in and performed not bad since.
I also see a kid in Kyle Walker looked a bloody world beater when he first came , and has progressively got worse with every game he has played.
The same can be said with Albrighton - who I likened to David Becham 6 months ago, and now looks like he couldn't get past a 5yr old kid now, and Barry Bannan - well - is he with Shergar or something ?
Its a bloody coincidence it is 30 odd players who gave us two memorable days out last year have all became "gobshites" over night !
-
simple. GH isn't asking petrov to play MON's way
I would argue we have recently. The two wins against West Ham and Newcastle were played with a 4-4-2 and also recently we have started the same way under GMac.
its not so much the formation but the tempo of play. you ask petrov to run around for 90 minutes and he's shagged. can't do it
-
simple. GH isn't asking petrov to play MON's way
I would argue we have recently. The two wins against West Ham and Newcastle were played with a 4-4-2 and also recently we have started the same way under GMac.
its not so much the formation but the tempo of play. you ask petrov to run around for 90 minutes and he's shagged. can't do it
Yet GM has played him like that the last 3 matches. Now I know he is shite but he has also admitted that GH is telling him what to do.
-
Again
I am going to say it
So someone has just mentioned Richard Dunne as a you know what.
Is this the same Richard Dunne who got 2nd in the player of the year in our best season for 30 yrs and got into the Premier team of the year ?
Is this the same Richard Dunne who is sooooooooooooooooooooooo bad, can still keep Carlos Cueller - the fans favourite - out of the team.
So come on tell me - is Cueller crap and no one will admit it , Dunne playing well - or your beloved Gerard just not spotting what you are saying is clear ?
enlighten me - please - coz all I can see is these "gobshites" were out of the team when we were pathetic , and have come back in and performed not bad since.
I also see a kid in Kyle Walker looked a bloody world beater when he first came , and has progressively got worse with every game he has played.
The same can be said with Albrighton - who I likened to David Becham 6 months ago, and now looks like he couldn't get past a 5yr old kid now, and Barry Bannan - well - is he with Shergar or something ?
Its a bloody coincidence it is 30 odd players who gave us two memorable days out last year have all became "gobshites" over night !
If you re-read my post where I refer to Richard Dunne in a less than flattering manner: I say that Houllier and McAllister have made some infuriating decisions this season and this is largely referring to Cuellar not playing as one of the biggest examples of this.
Now, unless you have been watching our games on teletext I would assume you can recognise that Dunne has been dreadful this season and making lots of errors. I do not accept these binary facile arguments about the players or management being entirely to blame. Both are.
The players in question have become gobshites for their poor form and lack of motivation over the course of thise season. The player you cite has assaulted the assistant manager (a proper Villa hero who has done more in his career than most of the players in question) if you recall.
-
So again, lets go with that.
Petrov can't last 90 mins.
So the other week , I didn't see one of these "gobshite" players leave a knackered Petrov on the pitch to take our defensive workhorse off only to see us lose against 10 men.
Blame the players all you like but the management have acted like imboceles in many games this year.
-
we WERE a top 6 side. we lost that as soon as milner went and wasn't replaced. Also, It was obvious to anyone with eyes last season that the likes of petrov were struggling to continue to play MON's high tempo way for 90 minutes. players get old, fact of life and with or without MON in change, Petrov's performance level was declining. Factor in Dunne's summer spent in Gregg's - nothing to do with GH - would MON have played him? or maybe the sheer inspiration of playing for MON would have negated the fact he was carrying around 3 spare tyres............
OK , so you say it was plainly obvious to one and all that Petrov can't cope .
So can I ask why Houllier has bought not one but TWO central midfielders AND PETROV IS STILL IN THE SIDE
INCLUDING TODAY WHEN MAKOUN AND BRADLEY ARE ON THE BENCH
Or, has Houllier a) made a mistake and Petrov has still got enough
or
b) He has just bought (or in one case it depends what you believe whether it is bought, loan or loan to buy) two players that are not good enough for the league.
Wierd really isnt it !
Weird.
Makoun is injured so isn't on the bench and how you can appraise him as not good enough is beyond me.
-
I've just been a bit bored, so decided to check our form out post Moscow compared to post Man City.
Moscow (match played 26th February 2009)
P12 W2 D5 L5 F14 A23 Pts11
Man City (match played 2nd March 2011)
P8 W2 D3 L3 F10 L11 Pts 9
So in 4 less matches we've almost equalled that run.
The quality of the opposition faced in those two runs is somewhat different. Two seasons ago the games we lost were against, Chelsea, Man City, Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd and Fulham away. This time we've been beaten by Bolton, Wolves and West Brom.
The more important issue is why did we make the same mistake twice? Gerard was quick to share the blame by stating after Man City that he had spoken to Paul and Randy about the weakened team he was intending to play with an FA Cup quarter final against Reading the prize, why was it allowed to happen a 2nd time when the FA Cup was all we had left to play for?
-
Yeah Dunne has been awful
So any manager worth his salt would have dropped him and replaced him with a more than adequate Cueller.
But they haven't - so dont blame Richard Dunne !!
-
Yeah Dunne has been awful
So any manager worth his salt would have dropped him and replaced him with a more than adequate Cueller.
But they haven't - so dont blame Richard Dunne !!
I agree! I have said as much. I blame the management for picking him.
Christ you really are tedious to argue with. I think I might get more sense out of my dog or a brick wall.
-
I agree that its all MON's fault.
We have after all, only had a week to get over his departure.(Sorry about the sarcasm)
The way he left was shite, theres no doubt about that. However, we were left with a squad that should comfortably finish in the top half of the table. We had a couple of months of bad injuries - which can hardly be blamed on MON.
GH was then backed considerably in the January transfer window an results haven't improved anywhere near enough.
-
simple. GH isn't asking petrov to play MON's way
I would argue we have recently. The two wins against West Ham and Newcastle were played with a 4-4-2 and also recently we have started the same way under GMac.
its not so much the formation but the tempo of play. you ask petrov to run around for 90 minutes and he's shagged. can't do it
Yet GM has played him like that the last 3 matches. Now I know he is shite but he has also admitted that GH is telling him what to do.
well like most of here, I don't really think GM has a clue what he's doing personally. i'm not sure of the extent of GH's input currently but i'd be surprised if he's phoning GM up during the game with tactical instructions
-
The blame for this season rests with o neill, houllier and his staff, Lerner, the players and injuries- all are culpable and some more than others but they have all contributed to a very poor season.
-
The blame for this season rests with o neill, houllier and his staff, Lerner, the players and injuries- all are culpable and some more than others but they have all contributed to a very poor season.
This...
-
It really is confusing.
One week you think, what is that prick playing at, the next you're surprised at what he's done with the team. We have an enigma going on with the management, it's 3-4 poor performances followed by 3-4 good performances. If Houllier/Mcallister could keep it more consistent who knows where we could be.
I'm not anti-Houllier, certainly not, results like this confuse me. If only we could have done it more often.
-
It really is confusing.
One week you think, what is that prick playing at, the next you're surprised at what he's done with the team. We have an enigma going on with the management, it's 3-4 poor performances followed by 3-4 good performances. If Houllier/Mcallister could keep it more consistent who knows where we could be.
I'm not anti-Houllier, certainly not, results like this confuse me. If only we could have done it more often.
I don't like to be negative following good performances but it gives me pause to think that if we follow up today's win with a good performance and a win against 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' that it might grant Houllier and McAllister another year and I personally don't want that.
-
It really is confusing.
One week you think, what is that prick playing at, the next you're surprised at what he's done with the team. We have an enigma going on with the management, it's 3-4 poor performances followed by 3-4 good performances. If Houllier/Mcallister could keep it more consistent who knows where we could be.
I'm not anti-Houllier, certainly not, results like this confuse me. If only we could have done it more often.
I don't like to be negative following good performances but it gives me pause to think that if we follow up today's win with a good performance and a win against 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' that it might grant Houllier and McAllister another year and I personally don't want that.
Don't think results against Arse and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' would have any bearing on whether they are here or not next season tbh. I think that decision will be determined solely on Houllier's health. I think the only way Randy would replace them otherwise would be if we'd got relegated.
-
It really is confusing.
One week you think, what is that prick playing at, the next you're surprised at what he's done with the team. We have an enigma going on with the management, it's 3-4 poor performances followed by 3-4 good performances. If Houllier/Mcallister could keep it more consistent who knows where we could be.
I'm not anti-Houllier, certainly not, results like this confuse me. If only we could have done it more often.
I don't want to be too negative but even in the recent wins against Spam, Newcastle and now Arsenal, we could easily have lost on any other day. Dunne got away with last man fouls twice that could have been given and Cole missed a golden opportunity. And today with another ref we would have had a defeat.
-
It really is confusing.
One week you think, what is that prick playing at, the next you're surprised at what he's done with the team. We have an enigma going on with the management, it's 3-4 poor performances followed by 3-4 good performances. If Houllier/Mcallister could keep it more consistent who knows where we could be.
I'm not anti-Houllier, certainly not, results like this confuse me. If only we could have done it more often.
I don't want to be too negative but even in the recent wins against Spam, Newcastle and now Arsenal, we could easily have lost on any other day. Dunne got away with last man fouls twice that could have been given and Cole missed a golden opportunity. And today with another ref we would have had a defeat.
And on half a dozen occasions when we've lost we could have got a result.
-
It really is confusing.
One week you think, what is that prick playing at, the next you're surprised at what he's done with the team. We have an enigma going on with the management, it's 3-4 poor performances followed by 3-4 good performances. If Houllier/Mcallister could keep it more consistent who knows where we could be.
I'm not anti-Houllier, certainly not, results like this confuse me. If only we could have done it more often.
I don't want to be too negative but even in the recent wins against Spam, Newcastle and now Arsenal, we could easily have lost on any other day. Dunne got away with last man fouls twice that could have been given and Cole missed a golden opportunity. And today with another ref we would have had a defeat.
And on half a dozen occasions when we've lost we could have got a result.
Bolton maybe and some others I never saw but in most games we have been more under the cosh then not.
-
Let's be clear. Yes good result today and regardless of what happens next week we need a changes all around (players and coaching staff) as early as possible after the season ends.
-
We have played better in some we have lost than those we have won. We have been understandably been very edgy when leading in recent weeks. WE have lost 26 points from winning this season. Hold onto to 10 of them and we are 7th, yet are only 3 points off 8th. Really odd season.
-
It really is confusing.
One week you think, what is that prick playing at, the next you're surprised at what he's done with the team. We have an enigma going on with the management, it's 3-4 poor performances followed by 3-4 good performances. If Houllier/Mcallister could keep it more consistent who knows where we could be.
I'm not anti-Houllier, certainly not, results like this confuse me. If only we could have done it more often.
I don't want to be too negative but even in the recent wins against Spam, Newcastle and now Arsenal, we could easily have lost on any other day. Dunne got away with last man fouls twice that could have been given and Cole missed a golden opportunity. And today with another ref we would have had a defeat.
And on half a dozen occasions when we've lost we could have got a result.
Bolton maybe and some others I never saw but in most games we have been more under the cosh then not.
I know it's a cliche but these things really do tend to even themselves out.
Ultimately we're where we are in the table on merit. This season has been way off what is acceptable to a club like ours with a squad like ours. Yes, the players have to take some of the blame but the bulk of the blame has to lie squarely at the manager's door. For whatever reason it's not worked out and we should cut our losses and run now.
-
Bolton maybe and some others I never saw but in most games we have been more under the cosh then not.
Stoke where we were a dive away from a point, Spurs at home when Clarke pushed a last-minute chance just wide, Bolton, Everton away, Fulham equalising with the last kick, how many times did we hit the woodwork at Small Heath? Bent missing that one on one last Saturday, Sunderland away when we played well and lost, Small Heath's deflected winner in the cup.
-
Could easily have won away at Stoke, Sunderland, blues, Chelsea, Bolton, fulham. In fact we were winning going into the last 15 mins in 4 of them. I doubt we played better last season away from home, in fact I suspect we played worse. But we were a lotbetter defensively.
-
It really is confusing.
One week you think, what is that prick playing at, the next you're surprised at what he's done with the team. We have an enigma going on with the management, it's 3-4 poor performances followed by 3-4 good performances. If Houllier/Mcallister could keep it more consistent who knows where we could be.
I'm not anti-Houllier, certainly not, results like this confuse me. If only we could have done it more often.
I don't want to be too negative but even in the recent wins against Spam, Newcastle and now Arsenal, we could easily have lost on any other day. Dunne got away with last man fouls twice that could have been given and Cole missed a golden opportunity. And today with another ref we would have had a defeat.
There are plenty of other games when the "ifs" might have seen us win instead of lose. Over all it hasn't been good enough but today was a great win and they deserve credit for it. Just as they did for pulling out such a good performance at West Ham when the pressure was really on.
-
Bolton maybe and some others I never saw but in most games we have been more under the cosh then not.
Stoke where we were a dive away from a point, Spurs at home when Clarke pushed a last-minute chance just wide, Bolton, Everton away, Fulham equalising with the last kick, how many times did we hit the woodwork at Small Heath? Bent missing that one on one last Saturday, Sunderland away when we played well and lost, Small Heath's deflected winner in the cup.
Sorry I was looking more at games were we dominated most of it but didn't have the luck. Sunderland home and away, Bolton and Fulham away were the only ones that were like that, (thanks for the memory jog). Stoke should have been a point with the dive as well as a ref decision that really went against us but in most cases the late goals against were because we allowed the pressure to come on throughout the match and could not cope.
-
Whilst I think this season has been unforgiveably piss poor, there's no doubt we've also had some shitty luck this season.
We had a few things go our way today. I can't remember saying that after a single other game this season.
-
Whilst I think this season has been unforgiveably piss poor, there's no doubt we've also had some shitty luck this season.
We had a few things go our way today. I can't remember saying that after a single other game this season.
Missed the West Ham away and Citeh / Everton home matches then?
-
Bolton maybe and some others I never saw but in most games we have been more under the cosh then not.
Stoke where we were a dive away from a point, Spurs at home when Clarke pushed a last-minute chance just wide, Bolton, Everton away, Fulham equalising with the last kick, how many times did we hit the woodwork at Small Heath? Bent missing that one on one last Saturday, Sunderland away when we played well and lost, Small Heath's deflected winner in the cup.
If my Auntie had bollocks, she would be my uncle. Fact is, we didnt win those games because we havent been good enough. IMO you reep what you sow.
-
Bolton maybe and some others I never saw but in most games we have been more under the cosh then not.
Stoke where we were a dive away from a point, Spurs at home when Clarke pushed a last-minute chance just wide, Bolton, Everton away, Fulham equalising with the last kick, how many times did we hit the woodwork at Small Heath? Bent missing that one on one last Saturday, Sunderland away when we played well and lost, Small Heath's deflected winner in the cup.
If my Auntie had bollocks, she would be my uncle. Fact is, we didnt win those games because we havent been good enough. IMO you reep what you sow.
Is my point exactly. But too many have been very quick to say our wins were lucky while ignoring the unlucky defeats.
-
In all fairness... Houllier pretty much said our season from the Everton game is like Champions League matches, we stepped up to the plate when it mattered and we prevailed with the quality we have in our team.
I don't expect us to be perfect every week like today... I would just like to see some consistency going and it's up to Randy whether he wants to stick or twist. Since the Everton game we have showed consistency, albeit in patches... but just one loss from those games and considering we were right in the shit back then when we played Everton we can look back and say we've done pretty good since the Everton game. West Ham, Wolves, Birmingham, Wigan, Blackpool and Blackburn were all in the same position as us yet we've broken away whilst they're still down there in the mix (well not West Ham).
If we can get it together I have no doubt we can challenge for top 8 again next season.
-
Let's be clear. Yes good result today and regardless of what happens next week we need a changes all around (players and coaching staff) as early as possible after the season ends.
Big time, the table doesnt lie. Changes are needed and fast. Another summer mucking around with Houllier, means another season of waste next season.
Darren Bent has kept us in the league. Some impact he has had. Aside from his goals, he has missed another heap of chances. He just keeps getting in those positions. If we can keep him fit next season, he will score 20 plus.
Other plus points, the emergence of Albrighton and Clark. Downing has improved (though I still wouldnt be his biggest fan). Nothing else to be enthused about from an awful season from start to finish.
-
Let's be clear. Yes good result today and regardless of what happens next week we need a changes all around (players and coaching staff) as early as possible after the season ends.
Big time, the table doesnt lie. Changes are needed and fast. Another summer mucking around with Houllier, means another season of waste next season.
Darren Bent has kept us in the league. Some impact he has had. Aside from his goals, he has missed another heap of chances. He just keeps getting in those positions. If we can keep him fit next season, he will score 20 plus.
Other plus points, the emergence of Albrighton and Clark. Downing has improved (though I still wouldnt be his biggest fan). Nothing else to be enthused about from an awful season from start to finish.
If, and i accept its a big if at the moment, GH stays. Then, when we start next season, it will be with his players, who want to play for him. That alone should dictate that we have a much better season. The ones who leave will be the ones he wants to go ( will the exception of Ash).
-
Unlucky defeats aside we have been very poor this season. Today was a good day, let us enjoy it. But next season look forward to a new management team at VP.
UTV
-
Let's be clear. Yes good result today and regardless of what happens next week we need a changes all around (players and coaching staff) as early as possible after the season ends.
Big time, the table doesnt lie. Changes are needed and fast. Another summer mucking around with Houllier, means another season of waste next season.
Darren Bent has kept us in the league. Some impact he has had. Aside from his goals, he has missed another heap of chances. He just keeps getting in those positions. If we can keep him fit next season, he will score 20 plus.
so on the one hand you acknowledge that Bent can score 20+ plus goals a season and has kept us up and yet you don't want to risk Houllier getting his own team in and buying similar players this summer. hmmm....
-
I know, what a load of cockflume!
-
We should be in the top 8. There are only 6 clubs that, on paper, have better squads than us.
Thinking out loud...
1. Man U
2. Chelsea
3. Arsenal
4. Man City
5. Liverpool
6. Spurs
7. Everton
I'd put us level with Everton to be honest if the game was played "on paper" Then you have to add in our injuries and the fact there is a strong possibility that the players were under prepared for the season. Based on that I'd say around 10 to 15 was par for the season. Any position less I suppose is the responsibility of Houllier and Co.
Taking this back on topic (ignoring the 4 or so recent pages I have not read), one of my biggest worries is the lack of feel good factor around the club. Regardless of how bad we are, or how good Houllier might be, there is a malaise about the club.
The quickest - arguably the cheapest - way to change that would be to get a new manager. He might be a less talented manger than Houllier but the perception of the fans is crucial and I think Houllier may have alienated too many people.
-
Let's be clear. Yes good result today and regardless of what happens next week we need a changes all around (players and coaching staff) as early as possible after the season ends.
Big time, the table doesnt lie. Changes are needed and fast. Another summer mucking around with Houllier, means another season of waste next season.
Darren Bent has kept us in the league. Some impact he has had. Aside from his goals, he has missed another heap of chances. He just keeps getting in those positions. If we can keep him fit next season, he will score 20 plus.
so on the one hand you acknowledge that Bent can score 20+ plus goals a season and has kept us up and yet you don't want to risk Houllier getting his own team in and buying similar players this summer. hmmm....
a truly ridiculous point
A forward scoring 20 goals a season doesnt guarantee a good league position. We banged in a heap of goals in the first season we finished 6th but Carew topscored on 13. Gabby and Carew banged in 33 between them last season so despite Bent's heroics we are way down with our forward players this term.
Houllier has also bought Makoun with whom the jury is still out. That is, if you want to solely judge a manager's ability to manage on players he has brought in.
As we all should know, being a manager is a lot more than about just signing players (your patronising tone suggests that you may fail to get this crucial point). Houllier cant manage players, seemingly has zero tactical appreciation and is an expensive liability. He has alienated fans, players and made the club a laughing stock with his actions. Furthermore AVFC is not a charity, Houllier and GMac dont come cheap. Lets not feel sorry for them (bar hoping Houllier's health is ok). This season has been a disaster, the worst I can remember in nearly 20 years. We had low seasons before in that time but with poor squads. This is a squad minus 1 that got 64 points last season and 2 wembley appearances.
I can only hope the result against Arsenal doesnt cover for what has been a truly awful season. 45 points sums it up well and our best player wants out. Our best midfielder imo also is available to leave for free.
No way should Houllier be given further time. He isnt up to it and it isnt worth changing around 10 players for him to further prove that point. I cant help thinking that those who want to give him further time are those that welcomed his appointment and dont wish to be proved wrong. 45 points this season is evidence that a change is needed and quick.
-
erm..........our best player wanted to leave last season. And did. And the season before. So i wouldn't put Young's expected departure too heavily at the door of the manager
The jury is, i agree out on Makoun but i've seen enough to suggest he's a good player who will improve given time. As will Walker if we buy him
Of who's left, the youngsters are generally thought to enjoy playing under GH. Then there's Downing who was totally shit under MON who's only found some form under...ah yes the current manager. Then there's Luke Young and NRC (your favourite) who couldn't get a game under the ex-manager but are back in favour with...ah yes the current manager.
so that leaves a collection of ageing 1st teamers on the way out, accident prone defenders, various deadwood and er gabby that you want another manager to get the best out of.... frankly even if GH goes and we find a manager who can "work" with these players i wouldn't be expecting too much improvement from the likes of Heskey and Dunne.
-
Let's be clear. Yes good result today and regardless of what happens next week we need a changes all around (players and coaching staff) as early as possible after the season ends.
Big time, the table doesnt lie. Changes are needed and fast. Another summer mucking around with Houllier, means another season of waste next season.
Darren Bent has kept us in the league. Some impact he has had. Aside from his goals, he has missed another heap of chances. He just keeps getting in those positions. If we can keep him fit next season, he will score 20 plus.
so on the one hand you acknowledge that Bent can score 20+ plus goals a season and has kept us up and yet you don't want to risk Houllier getting his own team in and buying similar players this summer. hmmm....
About as ludicrous as those who didn't trust MON to spend the Milner money, a player he signed in the first place.
-
Unless he really was planning to spend it on McGeady and Keane as reported. In which case I'm glad he didn't get the chance.
-
erm..........our best player wanted to leave last season. And did. And the season before. So i wouldn't put Young's expected departure too heavily at the door of the manager
The jury is, i agree out on Makoun but i've seen enough to suggest he's a good player who will improve given time. As will Walker if we buy him
Of who's left, the youngsters are generally thought to enjoy playing under GH. Then there's Downing who was totally shit under MON who's only found some form under...ah yes the current manager. Then there's Luke Young and NRC (your favourite) who couldn't get a game under the ex-manager but are back in favour with...ah yes the current manager.
so that leaves a collection of ageing 1st teamers on the way out, accident prone defenders, various deadwood and er gabby that you want another manager to get the best out of.... frankly even if GH goes and we find a manager who can "work" with these players i wouldn't be expecting too much improvement from the likes of Heskey and Dunne.
perhaps but Young doesnt appear to be going solely for money as the other two did. it would be awful if he goes to Liverpool as I think they are on the same level as us really.
Youngsters will always enjoy playing, injuries gave them their chance initially. Im not sure you can give Houllier much credit for giving the young lads a chance. His treatment of Lichaj and Baker wasnt exactly great it must be added. Clark and Albrighton look to be pushing for regular spots next season but both have a bit to go to be automatic. He gave Pires chances ahead of Bannan and Delph at stages too.
Downing has improved but more down to having a proper pre season and settling in rather than any amazing tactical changes or man mangement from Houllier. Luke Young has been in and out under Houllier, bit of a strange example.
Gabby got 16 goals last season and played superbly in the Carling Cup final. Thought he was great last season. Wouldnt blame his collapse of form all on Houllier but he didnt seem to get an improvement out of him at the same time. Dunne was on the EPL team of the year last year dont forget, the defence of Cuellar, Collins, Dunne and Warnock conceded the lowest amount of goals for a Villa side in years last season. They have all been poor this season. Dont think Dunne comes close to Warnock's decline, Collins has been worse too. John Carew's 17 goals last season have been replaced by zero this year.
Last but not least, 64 points last season, 45 points this one. James Milner isnt worth 19 points and 2 Wembley appearances of a difference. Yes there were injuries, players were acting the pr*ck but the highly paid management team is paid to deliver results from which they have failed hugely.
[/quote]Unless he really was planning to spend it on McGeady and Keane as reported. In which case I'm glad he didn't get the chance.
Yes we swerved a couple of bullets there. On his recent Irish appearances, McGeady seems to have improved since going to Russia. Was grossly overpriced last summer. Keane might well have scored goals for us but Bent is a far better option. We would have paid far too much for him aswell.
-
Unless he really was planning to spend it on McGeady and Keane as reported. In which case I'm glad he didn't get the chance.
(http://itstrulyrandom.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/bullet-time.jpg)
-
Excellent.
-
We've only lost 3 games since we signed Bent tbf.
-
Yes, as in MON's second (I think) season. Too many draws.
Less sloppy mistakes, more goal threat = happy days.
Both easily solved with a bit of transfer shenanigans and preparation. You'd hope.
-
I was thinking that we've actually played a good deal of the season without a permanent manager - the games at the beginning before Houllier was appointed, and the games at the end because of the health issue. It then occurred to me how the points we accumulated in those games compared to the ones Houllier presided over. Did we actually do slightly better in those "manager - less" games?
-
Simple answer. No.
-
Has there been any timeframe been given as to when a decision on Houllier will be made? I dont mean to be insensitive to what is clearly a serious health problem, but surely we cant spend half the summer deciding whether he should stay or go.
Also is it going to be Houllier's decision or the board's?
Next season is crucial to the future of the club. Either this season can be put down as a blip and we go back to challenging for Europe and looking upwards or the rot really sets in and we go the way of Newcastle thinking we are too good to be relegated but....
-
Has there been any timeframe been given as to when a decision on Houllier will be made?
2 weeks after the end of May I heard.
-
We have been very unlucky with things this year .
-
McClaren has ruled himself out of the West Ham role. Lets pray it's not come to us - that would be so magnolia.
-
Not Magnolia, more like shit brown.
It's not going to happen.
-
Has there been any timeframe been given as to when a decision on Houllier will be made?
2 weeks after the end of May I heard.
madness if true. has to be made a week after the end of the season at the latest. If a new guy comes in, its going to take him a month or so to evaulate the squad. He needs as much of this summer as possible.
-
I have said it previously I was quite looking forward to the pre-season to see who GH would get rid off and more important who he would bring in. However, with the medical problem that he has - and yes I know the medics gave him a clean bill of health last Sept but they were wrong weren't they - there is no way that he can continue as manager next season.
Therefore I hope to read on the official site on Monday morning that RL thanks him most warmly for his efforts on behalf of the club etc etc.
-
they are on holiday for 3 weeks after the seasn is over, that's what g.mac said wasn't it
-
madness if true. has to be made a week after the end of the season at the latest. If a new guy comes in, its going to take him a month or so to evaulate the squad. He needs as much of this summer as possible.
What evaluating can he do when they're all off on their summer holidays?
-
doesn't mattter. The likes of Ferguson, redknapp and co. have probably been enquiring about players who may become available since the new year - they don't shut up shop for 3 weeks just because its May. Don't particularly want to be here at the end of August hoping a new guy will manage to pull off 2 or 3 last minute transfers
-
the guardian football weekly podcast had members at the recent football writers awards at which Benitez was certainly at, Im not sure if they said McClaren was there.
Benitez according to the pod was letting it be known he wants the Villa job. He likes the idea of building a club to challenge, is content in England, wont be leaving England again and sees the Villa job as perfect.
McClaren also wants the job.
Also Houllier's wife, according to the French geezer on the pod who claimed he has been speaking to GH recently, wont let him back managing again.
From listening to the pod it seemed that Rafa Benitez to Villa is on.
-
From listening to the pod it seemed that Rafa Benitez to Villa is on.
That's my gut feeling, too. I'm going to have to find a way to accept a bloke who has always irritated the fuck out of me. Fact.
-
Be really interesting to see the reaction from our more sensitive fans if he does come. GH may love Liverpool but he doesn't sleep in a liverpool kit like FSW.
-
From listening to the pod it seemed that Rafa Benitez to Villa is on.
That's my gut feeling, too. I'm going to have to find a way to accept a bloke who has always irritated the fuck out of me. Fact.
You and me both. I still think it will be Moyes though, with Houllier retained in some capacity..
-
From listening to the pod it seemed that Rafa Benitez to Villa is on.
That's my gut feeling, too. I'm going to have to find a way to accept a bloke who has always irritated the fuck out of me. Fact.
You and me both. I still think it will be Moyes though, with Houllier retained in some capacity..
I'd be happy with that.
I have a similar dislike for Benitez personally, but would give him a chance if he does end up here.
-
Houllier won't be back and, knowing a bit about Randy's thinking, I would be surprised if Moyes wasn't the first name on the list to interview.
-
Would the club still have a policy of looking for someone who isn't in employment?
And when they employed GH,a big thing was made about working with youth,wouldn't this work against RB?
-
Would the club still have a policy of looking for someone who isn't in employment?
And when they employed GH,a big thing was made about working with youth,wouldn't this work against RB?
I'd hope that they learnt their lesson on that last time.
As for FSW and youth, I don't think he had much coming through at Liverpool during his tenure. But didn't I hear that he changed the youth set up there and they're now seeing some rewards from that?
-
Would the club still have a policy of looking for someone who isn't in employment?
And when they employed GH,a big thing was made about working with youth,wouldn't this work against RB?
was it a policy or circumstance at the time? Also, hiring an employed manager in June would I assume be a little easier than getting one 4 weeks into the season. Somebody as loyal and dedicated as Moyes has proved to be wouldn't want to put his club in the shit just as MON did to us.
-
Would the club still have a policy of looking for someone who isn't in employment?
And when they employed GH,a big thing was made about working with youth,wouldn't this work against RB?
I've a feeling that policy was as a result of the timing of the search (i.e. early september) rather than anything else.
-
Yeah, it's not like we only go after out of contract players.
-
As for FSW and youth, I don't think he had much coming through at Liverpool during his tenure. But didn't I hear that he changed the youth set up there and they're now seeing some rewards from that?
If you believe his article in last Sunday's Times, he is credited with all the good things coming through the RedScouse Youth system right now. And his CV is generally pretty impressive.
My concern with the FSW is that - apart from wanting to slap him around his chunky red Spanish face whenever I see him interviewed* - he is a bit like GHou; still somewhat besotted with Liverpool.
* Sounds a little pervy, that clause: I just mean that in some irrational way he irritates me! that's all.
-
There are some murmurings over on VT of Houllier meeting Randy with his solicitor today or tomorrow.
Whether there's any truth in it or what it means for us, I don't know.
-
I wouldn't be at all surprised. Give him a send off against the scousers and get cracking for next season at 6pm on Sunday.
-
There are some murmurings over on VT of Houllier meeting Randy with his solicitor today or tomorrow.
Whether there's any truth in it or what it means for us, I don't know.
On the premise that this is true, then a manager under contract talking about next season's plans with his chairman doesn't need a solicitor. A manager negotiating leaving and/or a change of roles would.
-
Think Sunday will be statement day. One thing Learner has found out is that it is a short period from the end of the season to the start of it. And with the amount of players contracts and ins and outs what are going to have to take place. The manager is going to need as much time as possible ....
-
Benitez has a great cv as a manager and would be an interesting choice- whether he would cope with the financial constraints I don't know but I think he would do a decent job- if we are realistic we are a long way off competing with the top 4 and maybe a Europa league place and a cup will be the ambitions in the next few years.
City and Chelsea can spend crazy cash and arsenal are sitting on a huge wedge of cash, utd will stay up there and we will be doing well to compete with Liverpool, spurs and everton for the 5th and 6th places.
-
Benitez has got a bit of a habit of making bizarre substitutions which would worry me. Can you imagine the uproar if he took off Bent whilst we were chasing a game, like he did on numerous occasions with Torres?
-
Benitez has got a bit of a habit of making bizarre substitutions which would worry me. Can you imagine the uproar if he took off Bent whilst we were chasing a game, like he did on numerous occasions with Torres?
The difference between Torres and Bent is that Torres hasn't been in form for about one and a half season.
-
The thing I found strange about Benitez , as liverpool scored their fifth goal , he would always get his note pad out without no emotion at all...
-
p.s not that Im complaining about Villa scoring 5 goals....
-
I have the same feeling about Benitez as I had about Stephen Ireland and Gerard Houlier.
No.
-
Benitez has got a bit of a habit of making bizarre substitutions which would worry me. Can you imagine the uproar if he took off Bent whilst we were chasing a game, like he did on numerous occasions with Torres?
he was bout right there with Torres thou ;-)
-
Benitez v moyes ... still not sure for me
-
I'd take moyes ahead of Benitez as he seems more loyal- rafa is a bit volatile and may see us as a stopgap until a bigger fish came for him, although I think he would do well during his tenure.
-
I would only want Benitez If he bought villa and reina with him , which isnt going to happen....
-
From listening to the pod it seemed that Rafa Benitez to Villa is on.
That's my gut feeling, too. I'm going to have to find a way to accept a bloke who has always irritated the fuck out of me. Fact.
You and me both. I still think it will be Moyes though, with Houllier retained in some capacity..
Times 3. (Benitez that is)
-
The pod?
-
The pod?
It's a Ween album from 1991. It's somewhat surprising that it contains information about who the next Villa manager will be.
-
Benitez v moyes ... still not sure for me
1 European Cup, 1 UEFA cup, 2 La Liga Championships, 1 FA Cup, 1 World Club Championship
Vs
1 Champions League preliminary qualification tie (lost)
-
Benitez v moyes ... still not sure for me
1 European Cup, 1 UEFA cup, 2 La Liga Championships, 1 FA Cup, 1 World Club Championship
Vs
1 Champions League preliminary qualification tie (lost)
ok you have convinced me . Mcclaren it is then ..
-
Please - not the Fat Spanish Waiter !!!
-
Benitez v moyes ... still not sure for me
1 European Cup, 1 UEFA cup, 2 La Liga Championships, 1 FA Cup, 1 World Club Championship
Vs
1 Champions League preliminary qualification tie (lost)
ok you have convinced me . Mcclaren it is then ..
1 European Cup, 1 UEFA cup, 2 La Liga Championships, 1 FA Cup, 1 World Club Championship
Vs
1 Eredivisie, 1 League Cup, 1 Correspondence Course in Modern European Languages, Only Man in History to be Bald Twice, Nice New Teeth
-
Benitez v moyes ... still not sure for me
1 European Cup, 1 UEFA cup, 2 La Liga Championships, 1 FA Cup, 1 World Club Championship
Vs
1 Champions League preliminary qualification tie (lost)
It would be great if he brought those trophies to us and they were automatically added to our honours list.
Unfortunately, the process of recruiting a top flight manager isn't that straightforward. Past record obviously counts for a lot but of equal importance is when you recruit them. Are they on the way up, or on the way down?
Benitez is younger than Houllier, so he has that in his favour. But is he likely to match or get close to previous achievements? If he continues some of the erratic behaviour he exhibited at Liverpool in the latter years, I'd say it's unlikely.
In contrast, someone like a Moyes or Hughes might be capable of having the best years of their career with us, rather than trading on former glories or reminiscing about their ex.
-
I'd take moyes ahead of Benitez as he seems more loyal- rafa is a bit volatile and may see us as a stopgap until a bigger fish came for him
As opposed to which managers who wouldn't want to move to a bigger club if the opportunity arose?
-
There are bigger clubs?
-
Benitez v moyes ... still not sure for me
1 European Cup, 1 UEFA cup, 2 La Liga Championships, 1 FA Cup, 1 World Club Championship
Vs
1 Champions League preliminary qualification tie (lost)
It would be great if he brought those trophies to us and they were automatically added to our honours list.
Unfortunately, the process of recruiting a top flight manager isn't that straightforward. Past record obviously counts for a lot but of equal importance is when you recruit them. Are they on the way up, or on the way down?
Benitez is younger than Houllier, so he has that in his favour. But is he likely to match or get close to previous achievements? If he continues some of the erratic behaviour he exhibited at Liverpool in the latter years, I'd say it's unlikely.
In contrast, someone like a Moyes or Hughes might be capable of having the best years of their career with us, rather than trading on former glories or reminiscing about their ex.
They might. But Benitez has done it at two clubs in two countries (supposedly the two most difficult/competitive countries) and with clubs who were up there, but not viewed as being in the very top tier of either league. HIs last days at Liverpool coincided with the last days of two of the very worst owners in Premier League history, so there were extenuating circumstances.
We're not, in my opinion, really in a position toturn down proven winners in favour what has so far been the upper levels of mediocrity.
-
If we were involved in a major European competition next year I might be a wee bit more receptive to the idea.
Previously that seemed to be his forte, setting teams up to grind it out over two legs.
He often came in for stick when it came to the domestic league, even prior to the final disastrous year where he frittered away Liverpool's natural advantage re top 4 with a combination of bad tactics and bad buys.
As it is, even with a squad as strong as Inter Milan he made a balls of it in Europe this year too.
I think he's a busted flush personally. And -worse than that- I'm pretty certain if he got the gig he'd be very quick in making excuses for poor performances/ underachievement. No more of that.
-
It doesn't look like Moyes will happen - the money's going on Mark Hughes if the bookies are anything to go by.
-
Highly unlikely.
-
If we were involved in a major European competition next year I might be a wee bit more receptive to the idea.
Previously that seemed to be his forte, setting teams up to grind it out over two legs.
He often came in for stick when it came to the domestic league, even prior to the final disastrous year where he frittered away Liverpool's natural advantage re top 4 with a combination of bad tactics and bad buys.
As it is, even with a squad as strong as Inter Milan he made a balls of it in Europe this year too.
I think he's a busted flush personally. And -worse than that- I'm pretty certain if he got the gig he'd be very quick in making excuses for poor performances/ underachievement. No more of that.
With regard to his domestic performances - he's won 2 more league titles than any other candidate will have. Unless Ancelotti really is a candidate, in which case I withdraw all my support rom Benitez!
-
You never know what the issue was at Inter, but following Mourinho must have been difficult, and you don't know what barriers were there with the squad. However, given the option of all those being touted, I would gamble on Rafa.
-
As it is, even with a squad as strong as Inter Milan he made a balls of it in Europe this year too.
Qualified from the group stages = made a balls of it ?
-
With their depth of squad? I'd say losing to Tottenham and getting annihilated by a very average Schalke side might qualify as such, yeah.
-
You never know what the issue was at Inter, but following Mourinho must have been difficult, and you don't know what barriers were there with the squad. However, given the option of all those being touted, I would gamble on Rafa.
It wasn't that long ago that we were chanting, "You're only a fat Spanish waiter".
He left both Valencia and Liverpool broke. Made bad decisions at Liverpool and bought some pretty poor players. We can do better.
-
With their depth of squad? I'd say losing to Tottenham and getting annihilated by a very average Schalke side might qualify as such, yeah.
In the group stages, qualification is what matters. That they lost to Tottenham isn't that important. When Inter was "annihilated" by Schalke, Leonardo was their manager. Benitez was sacked after winning the World Club Championship.
-
Bentitez watched Bale blitz Inter, he then played the same tactics in the next leg and the same happened, he was a disaster at Inter.
-
You never know what the issue was at Inter, but following Mourinho must have been difficult, and you don't know what barriers were there with the squad. However, given the option of all those being touted, I would gamble on Rafa.
It wasn't that long ago that we were chanting, "You're only a fat Spanish waiter".
He left both Valencia and Liverpool broke. Made bad decisions at Liverpool and bought some pretty poor players. We can do better.
The owners left Liverpool broke, very harsh to level that at Benitez. Valencia I haven't a clue of the workings, but he had a brilliant squad together there at one stage.
-
Well, I understand that he's not everybody's cup of tea. Yet, I fail to understand that underperfoming in the league, qualifying from the CL group stages and winning two (allthough minor) trophies equates to a disaster.
-
Perhaps not a disaster, no.
But certainly a record of underachievement for at least the last few years.
In contrast to some of the other names circulating who have probably overachieved with their resources.
-
You never know what the issue was at Inter, but following Mourinho must have been difficult, and you don't know what barriers were there with the squad. However, given the option of all those being touted, I would gamble on Rafa.
It wasn't that long ago that we were chanting, "You're only a fat Spanish waiter".
He left both Valencia and Liverpool broke. Made bad decisions at Liverpool and bought some pretty poor players. We can do better.
The owners left Liverpool broke, very harsh to level that at Benitez. Valencia I haven't a clue of the workings, but he had a brilliant squad together there at one stage.
He made his name at Valencia. My point is he spent more than his clubs could afford and he didn't spend wisely. Liverpool needed a striker to partner Torres, so he blew the budget on a right back, £18m on Johnson and the rest on an injury prone and actually injured Aquillani who wasn't fit for 4 or 5 months and wasn't good enough either.
-
But certainly a record of underachievement for at least the last few years.
I disagree. I think he did excellent in his penultimate season at Liverpool. In his last he got too occupied with fighting the owners and underachieved. At Inter he was somewhat disappointing but wasn't really given a chance.
I'm not saying that he should be rushed to Bodymoor Heath at whatever cost may be. But his record of winning trophies with clubs that weren't really favourites to win makes him an interesting candidate.
-
I'd be more concerned with his apparent reluctance to play youth players from his time at Liverpool more than anything.
-
I think the downfall of Benitez started around the time he tried to piss us about over Barry. He seemed to lose the plot after that, spending huge amounts on average players. I remember a lot of us on here wanted Liverpool to keep him for as long as possible because he was making a bit of a pigs ear of things.
Something tells me it would'nt work out for him here.
-
In fairness I dont think he really had them. I remember watching our youth team take theirs to pieces when he was Liverpool manager.
I wasn't impressed. None have really come though in the last few years and only now are we seeing one or two come through and they dont look like world beaters either.
No manager appointed is going to neglect our youth set up because Randy won't allow it for one and it would be in their remit when appointed, plus its a pretty good resource for us and you'd have to be a twat to ignore it. Whoever gets the job is going to have to work with the youngsters.
Ive heard good arguments for and against Rafa on this thread though. I'm still undecided on him. I know his record is excellent but I think hes a bit of a bell end. If he got the job I'd support him of course.
-
Would rather take the decision and hope that Houlliers health is sufficient to continue than have Benitez. I would really struggle to be able to support him. Think Houllier can do a good job for Villa but it really is a massive gamble .........
-
I too am not particularly excited by the prospect of Benitez. I cannot put my finger on why as he has an impressive CV. One thing which is a good sign is he appears to really want the job so he will hopefully be hungry to succeed and buy into Randy's plans.
-
from the mirror. villa eye moyes or hughes as next boss
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Aston-Villa-are-closely-monitoring-Everton-manager-David-Moyes-and-Fulham-boss-Mark-Hughes-as-the-likelihood-increases-Gerard-Houllier-will-not-return-to-dugout-after-latest-heart-scare-article737471.html
-
I think the downfall of Benitez started around the time he tried to piss us about over Barry. He seemed to lose the plot after that, spending huge amounts on average players. I remember a lot of us on here wanted Liverpool to keep him for as long as possible because he was making a bit of a pigs ear of things.
Something tells me it would'nt work out for him here.
Incorrect, Liverpool nearly won the league the summer after the Barry debacle and got the CL semi final. It spurred on Alonso's best season for Liverpool but also hastened his exit.
Would rather take the decision and hope that Houlliers health is sufficient to continue than have Benitez. I would really struggle to be able to support him. Think Houllier can do a good job for Villa but it really is a massive gamble .........
That is just absolute madness. Leaving aside his health, a look at our points total means that we needed a new manager regardless.
To be fair to Benitez, he completely revamped the academy at Liverpool that wasnt working. Perhaps Dalglish is seeing the benefit of it now.
Benitez has by far the best CV in the race. Id worry about how committed he would be and his ability to cause trouble but if his heart was truly in the job then its a no brainer.
-
A massive NO to Ailsa.
-
A massive NO to Ailsa.
Agree
a truly mediocre appointment
-
Slightly off tangent, but did anyone else notice the physical similarity between the glum faced Dominique Strauss-Kahn being lead to court by NY rozzers and the glum faced GH we've seen on our bench this season?
-
Mark Hughes would be a waste of 2 seasons.
-
I don't want Rafa or Mark Hughes or Fat Sam.
I want to see Gerard, Graham Taylor and Ron Atkinson and Randy Lerner to do interview together. We need to find the man to be our Arsene Wenger.
-
Hughes would have had a huge yes from me last August, that's when we needed him, but now with the advantage of more time and preparation to look around, I think we could do better - though he's had a decent first season with Fulham, to be fair.
Benitez... tough call. Superb, in my opinion, until two years ago. Since then, he's had a mixed time: following on from Mourinho at any club can't be easy. But I'll go along with those who believe that, if he's truly committed to the cause and is prepared to give Villa a few years to actually build something, and not just use us as a stepping job to somewhere else, he could be good.
Moyes would be a safer bet... but I think Benitez has more potential to actually drive us on to bigger things, if that makes sense.
As for some of Rafa's later signings: Johnson was well over priced at £18m but nothing wrong in targeting the player in the first place - he'd had an absolutely storming season; Aquilani was, at the time, the brightest midfield prospect in Italy and it was a bit unlucky that injury scuppered things for him (yes, even though he was injured at the time of signing......)
-
A lot of things people forget about his time at Inter is that he once again was working with idiots at board level.
He'll come here and it will be a settled environment at board level, and he will know that he will have a free hand to do what he wants to do with the team without any interference.
-
Moyes please.
-
I don't want Rafa or Mark Hughes or Fat Sam.
I want to see Gerard, Graham Taylor and Ron Atkinson and Randy Lerner to do interview together. We need to find the man to be our Arsene Wenger.
So, presumably if the aforementioned recruitment panel came back wiith Fat Sam as their candidate you'd be happy?
I know I wouldn't.
-
What's happened to Martin Jol? - would he not be a candidate at least? His credentials are on a par with Hughes and superior to Moyes and McLaren, I'd say.
-
David Moyes or Mark Hughes are the men to take Villa forward. Not sure about Rafa at all - I don't think we are really big enough for him to attract real talent to push on.
No to Mclaren and big sam and curbs
-
What are peoples thoughts on Owen Coyle? Seems to improve a side everywhere he goes.
Just a thought, dont all go mad! :P
-
What's happened to Martin Jol? - would he not be a candidate at least? His credentials are on a par with Hughes and superior to Moyes and McLaren, I'd say.
lost out to McClaren in his first season in Holland.
Quit Ajax midway through this season, under Frank De Boer they went on to win title in his absence.
No from me.
-
A massive NO to Ailsa.
Who?
-
A massive NO to Ailsa.
Who?
(http://www.thespoiler.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/women-hughes.jpg)
It's what The Fiver calls Mark Hughes. I prefer this lookalike for him though -
(http://clientimages.teamtalk.com/08/05/Others/219951.jpg)
-
Ta VS. So who's the original Ailsa?
-
With GED reportedly meeting Randy with his solicitor, and with GMac making all the noises about contracts and Houllier doing office work, I have a horrible feeling that Houllier will move to a director of football role (not bad) and McAllister will become head coach/manager (not good). Houllier will get the players/contracts sorted and McAllister knows the style of football Houllier likes to play. Might seem reasonable to Randy too.
I think everything hinges on whether Houllier feels he could/should continue in any capacity at all.
-
Ta VS. So who's the original Ailsa?
From Home and Away.
-
If GMac is instated as manager/head coach I'll actually cry.
Moyes has to be first choice, Hughes second. If Ancelotti was an option, then of course - but he isn't.
People saying Rafa - because of his previous honours - are wrong. He was at clubs who were in a position to win things, I don't think he's capable of taking us to that position.
-
What are peoples thoughts on Owen Coyle? Seems to improve a side everywhere he goes.
Just a thought, dont all go mad! :P
Perfectly fair suggestion and no need to be mad. He has Bolton in his blood and a long history there specifically and in the North West generally. I am not sure he would 'emigrate' well. Mine is another vote for 1. Moyes or 2. Hughes or 3. Benitez in that order. No way to McLaren.
-
I wouldn't read too much into what GMac is saying. Its part of his brief to present a business as usual scenario and he wouldn't be doing his job if he did anything else. The alternative is he comes out and says he hasn't a clue whats happening which is probably nearer the truth but doesn't present a good image.
-
What are peoples thoughts on Owen Coyle? Seems to improve a side everywhere he goes.
Just a thought, dont all go mad! :P
Perfectly fair suggestion and no need to be mad. He has Bolton in his blood and a long history there specifically and in the North West generally. I am not sure he would 'emigrate' well. Mine is another vote for 1. Moyes or 2. Hughes or 3. Benitez in that order. No way to McLaren.
He was at Bolton for 2 seasons as a player. The rest of his career was spent in Scotland.
-
I honestly cannot see the love in for Moyes. He is just a Scottish version of MoN in his style of play. Add to that how shit Everton starts each season.
And before someone says about him not having a lot of money to spend - Felliani, Bilybollockov, Yakubu, Johnson, Beattie.
-
I honestly cannot see the love in for Moyes. He is just a Scottish version of MoN in his style of play. Add to that how shit Everton starts each season.
And before someone says about him not having a lot of money to spend - Felliani, Bilybollockov, Yakubu, Johnson, Beattie.
Who would you suggest then?
-
Moyes isn't Rinus Michels, but I think he could be considered a safe bet. I think he's extremely unlikely to lead us into another relegation battle. My feeling is that he'd make us hard to beat, play football some will consider dour and provide finishes between 6th and 8th without spending too much money.
-
he's strict, he does buy skillfull players when he has the money and he makes you hard to beat As far as british based managers go, Moyes is the best option imo.
-
I think 6th is as high up as Villa will get. cant see us breaking into the top 4 ever unless the big guns all have craps seasons which I highly doubt. A manager that can get us to 6th would prob be sparky or moyes.
-
Unless we're able to lure some top foreign name, such as Rijlaard, then Moyes is my choice.
I do agree he might be similar to MON, but then as most on here will know I was a fan of the job he was doing so that suits me. Where he failed was to put the icing on the cake, but now we have Bent then him plus a return to the ultra competitive hard to beat Villa we have seen in recent years might be the recipe for success.
-
I honestly cannot see the love in for Moyes. He is just a Scottish version of MoN in his style of play. Add to that how shit Everton starts each season.
And before someone says about him not having a lot of money to spend - Felliani, Bilybollockov, Yakubu, Johnson, Beattie.
Who would you suggest then?
I cant stand the fucker. I dont have a network of footballing experts to turn to to make a decision. I bet there are many good candidates around Europe.
-
I honestly cannot see the love in for Moyes. He is just a Scottish version of MoN in his style of play. Add to that how shit Everton starts each season.
And before someone says about him not having a lot of money to spend - Felliani, Bilybollockov, Yakubu, Johnson, Beattie.
Who would you suggest then?
I cant stand the fucker. I dont have a network of footballing experts to turn to to make a decision. I bet there are many good candidates around Europe.
Do we really need to gamble on a foreigner again? To bring some stability back to theclub, we need a proven british manager with experience in the EPL
-
I honestly cannot see the love in for Moyes. He is just a Scottish version of MoN in his style of play. Add to that how shit Everton starts each season.
And before someone says about him not having a lot of money to spend - Felliani, Bilybollockov, Yakubu, Johnson, Beattie.
Who would you suggest then?
Out of the candidates that have been linked so far that I think are realistic - Benitez (possibly Flores from Atletico Madrid). (If Ancelotti were seriously interested then he would be my first choice by a country mile).
-
I honestly cannot see the love in for Moyes. He is just a Scottish version of MoN in his style of play. Add to that how shit Everton starts each season.
And before someone says about him not having a lot of money to spend - Felliani, Bilybollockov, Yakubu, Johnson, Beattie.
Who would you suggest then?
I cant stand the fucker. I dont have a network of footballing experts to turn to to make a decision. I bet there are many good candidates around Europe.
Do we really need to gamble on a foreigner again? To bring some stability back to theclub, we need a proven british manager with experience in the EPL
Ferguson aside, how many British managers have been a success in the Premier League over the past 5 years or so?
-
Moyes teams play quality football, Everton play a really good style, totally different to MON.
The moose on talksport reckons he heard a rumour that we are interested in Paul Lambert from Norwich.
-
Ferguson aside, how many British managers have been a success in the Premier League over the past 5 years or so?
Depends on what you define as 'success'. I'd say the following have done very well given what they could realistically achieve at the clubs involved:-
Moyes at Everton
Hodgson at Fulham
Dalgleish at Liverpool
Coyle at Bolton
Hughes at Blackburn/Fulham
And although it pains me to say it, Redknapp at Spurs
-
I honestly cannot see the love in for Moyes. He is just a Scottish version of MoN in his style of play. Add to that how shit Everton starts each season.
And before someone says about him not having a lot of money to spend - Felliani, Bilybollockov, Yakubu, Johnson, Beattie.
Who would you suggest then?
I cant stand the fucker. I dont have a network of footballing experts to turn to to make a decision. I bet there are many good candidates around Europe.
Do we really need to gamble on a foreigner again? To bring some stability back to theclub, we need a proven british manager with experience in the EPL
Ferguson aside, how many British managers have been a success in the Premier League over the past 5 years or so?
Harry Redknapp and Tony Pulis.
-
Ferguson aside, how many British managers have been a success in the Premier League over the past 5 years or so?
Depends on what you define as 'success'. I'd say the following have done very well given what they could realistically achieve at the clubs involved:-
Moyes at Everton Has done well granted. But has also spent a fair wad of cash doing it. Still not learning from mistakes of bad starts
Hodgson at Fulham Then went to Liverpool and fucked up. Does well at small clubs, but struggles with larger clubs
Dalgleish at Liverpool A decent 6 months - too soon to say if he's been a success though - plus unrealistic to take over here
Coyle at Bolton One decent season - remember Paul Jewell, Danny Wilson and Boothroyd have all done that - next season will be the big one for him
Hughes at Blackburn/Fulham He's done well, although something about him I cannot stand, just can't work out what it is
And although it pains me to say it, Redknapp at Spurs Huge success, but unlikely to come to Villa Park
I phrased the question wrong - I meant about who we could realistically expect to take over from Houllier.
-
Pulis - don't want his style of anti football at the Villa.
The point I was trying to make (albeit badly) is that if you look at what has been won over the past 5/10 years or so, there are not many British Managers in that list.
-
true but they don't get the jobs at clubs who can realistically win trophies. If moyes had been at Manu or chelsea for the last three years then i think its likely he would have won something at least. Likewise Redknapp
-
My question would be then "Why is it that British mangers rarely get the top jobs?"
-
My question would be then "Why is it that British mangers rarely get the top jobs?"
Because top clubs want proven winners as managers. And not many of them (except Ferguson) are British.
-
My question would be then "Why is it that British mangers rarely get the top jobs?"
Because top clubs want proven winners as managers. And not many of them (except Ferguson) are British.
So why should we be any different then?
I want the best man for the job to take over, whether he is British, Spanish, Italian or Outer Mongolian.
-
And I'd say the most successful British Manager over the past few seasons would be McLaren.
-
Perception mainly. I think if you looked at the foreign managers in the premiership in the last 15 years, then the amount of failures and sucessess among them is pretty comparable to british managers but someone like Moyes is not considered sexy enough for a big club. Why give him a chance to become the next ferguson when a top british club can bring in a CL winner from abroad?
-
People saying Rafa - because of his previous honours - are wrong. He was at clubs who were in a position to win things
Does that include Valencia?
-
You could argue that SAF success has been to the detriment of other UK managers, as they have the best chance of breaking through on their own turf. Manure has pretty much had a monopoly of the top of the league. Its not their fault they are successful, but if that title had been shared around a bit more early on, there would have been more "successful" UK managers to consider. The premier league though is a global league housed in the UK, and big time investments want winners. So, by nature they look to the most successful managers they can find. I have a feeling I have somewhat lost sight of my point due to writing a lot of shit, but the intention was good. Apologies
-
For what its worth, I think that Man United should and will be considering Moyes. He has desire, he gets on with his job, he knows what he can achieve with his resources and he has tactical nouse. I would be enthusiastic if Moyes came to us. He may not be an initial fans choice, but I think there are comparisons with SAF in this too. He was my pick when MON left.
-
For what its worth, I think that Man United should and will be considering Moyes. He has desire, he gets on with his job, he knows what he can achieve with his resources and he has tactical nouse. I would be enthusiastic if Moyes came to us. He may not be an initial fans choice, but I think there are comparisons with SAF in this too. He was my pick when MON left.
Very unlikely that they would appoint him, I think, bearing in mind his relative lack of European experience.
-
Manure will not be looking at Moyes - The Glazers will want a big name, proven in Champions League, manager. Someone like Mourinho.
-
AF will have a huge say on who will be next, anyway I don't give a toss. For us, I want the best man for the job, being British is irrelavent.
-
A lot of things people forget about his time at Inter is that he once again was working with idiots at board level.
He'll come here and it will be a settled environment at board level, and he will know that he will have a free hand to do what he wants to do with the team without any interference.
I'm actually swayed by this argument concerning Benitez, though I'm still worried about the palaver when we go to Anfield.
-
AF will have a huge say on who will be next, anyway I don't give a toss. For us, I want the best man for the job, being British is irrelavent.
big time it is the kind of xenophobic nonsense Jamie Redknapp or Martin Samuel would come up with.
-
My question would be then "Why is it that British mangers rarely get the top jobs?"
The current fashion is for overseas managers, and when you're a CL club you have a world of choice. If you look at last years top 10, then you'll see:-
Chelsea - Foreign
Man Utd - British
Arsenal - Foreign
Tottenham - British
Manchester City - Foreign
Aston Villa - British
Liverpool - Foreign
Everton - British
Birmingham - British
Blackburn - British
So that's 6 out of 10 with British managers. It's just that when those truely top jobs become available they seem to get overlooked.
Personally, I have no issue with the nationality of our next manager, I just want the best man and I'm unconvinced that going overseas is the best way to do that.
-
People saying Rafa - because of his previous honours - are wrong. He was at clubs who were in a position to win things
Does that include Valencia?
Yes, it does. They were one of the top clubs in Spain at the end of the 90s, and had a very successful year in 99 - he didn't join them til 2001. He stepped into yet another job that was set up for success.
-
People saying Rafa - because of his previous honours - are wrong. He was at clubs who were in a position to win things
Does that include Valencia?
Yes, it does. They were one of the top clubs in Spain at the end of the 90s, and had a very successful year in 99 - he didn't join them til 2001. He stepped into yet another job that was set up for success.
Thats exactly why he wouldnt be successful at villa
-
Exactly, that's my point. He's done well at clubs who should always be doing well. Valencia was on the rise and winning things and he joined during that. Liverpool he did an okay job at a club that should have been challenging for honours every season. His time at Inter was a shambles and is to me - a more realistic representation of his ability.
-
Extending that logic, then, and I suppose SAF has only done what's expected of Manchester United, and no more.
Big clubs, big players, big budgets - it goes without saying that they have a greater chance of winning and being successful than smaller clubs. But we can only judge Benitez on what he's done at the clubs he's managed, otherwise.... what's left? Valencia haven't done much since, and although they're a good club, any Spanish team which cracks the top two has achieved; at Liverpool, he did as well as any manager there in the last 20 years.
Inter didn't work out: he was there for, what? Six months of the season?
-
People saying Rafa - because of his previous honours - are wrong. He was at clubs who were in a position to win things
Does that include Valencia?
Yes, it does. They were one of the top clubs in Spain at the end of the 90s, and had a very successful year in 99 - he didn't join them til 2001. He stepped into yet another job that was set up for success.
Thats exactly why he wouldnt be successful at villa
Why wouldn't he be a success here? We've the basis of a strong squad with a board that doesn't interfere with what is happening and some very good youth players coming through. Add to that the first class training facilities etc and there is a very good base to work from there to become successful here.
-
In our situation, trying to trouble the established top clubs with an owner obviously prepared to spend but not prepared to throw good money after bad our best bet is Moyes, Jol or Allardyce. I never saw why two trophies and one serious title challenge in seven years impressed the Liverpool fans so much when it came the Benitez.
-
In our situation, trying to trouble the established top clubs with an owner obviously prepared to spend but not prepared to throw good money after bad our best bet is Moyes, Jol or Allardyce. I never saw why two trophies and one serious title challenge in seven years impressed the Liverpool fans so much when it came the Benitez.
Perhaps one of them trophies was the European Cup, and then two years later he led them back to the European Cup Final again, had something to do with it.
-
People saying Rafa - because of his previous honours - are wrong. He was at clubs who were in a position to win things
Does that include Valencia?
Yes, it does. They were one of the top clubs in Spain at the end of the 90s, and had a very successful year in 99 - he didn't join them til 2001. He stepped into yet another job that was set up for success.
Thats exactly why he wouldnt be successful at villa
Why wouldn't he be a success here? We've the basis of a strong squad with a board that doesn't interfere with what is happening and some very good youth players coming through. Add to that the first class training facilities etc and there is a very good base to work from there to become successful here.
how many youth players did rafa bring through at Liverpool? Ask any liverpool fan, he ruined their youth policy and he will do the same at villa. the likes of Bannan, Albrighton will not get a look in. I wouldnt be happy with Rafa as manager but would support him as all I want is for the villa to do well and be succesful and there wouldnt be no point in being negative from the start.
-
Ta VS. So who's the original Ailsa?
From Home and Away.
Ah thanks. Haven't seen it for years.
-
Reading a lot of your posts Rick I don't think other than bringing Hitz back to Villa Park would make you happy.
Have you thought that the reason Rafa didn't play any of the youth players was because they weren't good enough?
-
Reading a lot of your posts Rick I don't think other than bringing Hitz back to Villa Park would make you happy.
Have you thought that the reason Rafa didn't play any of the youth players was because they weren't good enough?
I rate Hitz and feel he will do much better than NRC and Petrov IMO.
Not good enough? So why has Kenny taken a gamble with them? Jay Spearing, Selvy, Flannagan, all seem like they are going to be top draw liverpool players.
I could say the same about you in that the only thing that will make you happy is if Rafa was manager.
-
how many youth players did rafa bring through at Liverpool? Ask any liverpool fan, he ruined their youth policy and he will do the same at villa. the likes of Bannan, Albrighton will not get a look in. I wouldnt be happy with Rafa as manager but would support him as all I want is for the villa to do well and be succesful and there wouldnt be no point in being negative from the start.
Rafa reshaped their youth system during his time at the club. If you look now you can see a few young players finally starting to break through at Liverpool. These players did not magically appear when Kenny Dalglish took over. Admittedly, not many came through during his period in charge BUT how many young players really break through at big clubs? Not many. By wide opinion we have one of the best youth set-ups in the country and we have only brought through a handful of players in the last few years. Maybe the youth set up needed a lot of work that Benitez has done that they are now reaping the rewards of? How many of the young players who did not come through under Benitez have gone on to have decent careers and break through at big clubs?
-
How did Benitez ruin Liverpool's youth policy? These lads who have started making a few appearances this season - Spearing, Shelvey, Flanagan and that right-back whose name escapes me (they all look fairly ordinary to me) - did they sign for the club after Benitez left?
-
Reading a lot of your posts Rick I don't think other than bringing Hitz back to Villa Park would make you happy.
Have you thought that the reason Rafa didn't play any of the youth players was because they weren't good enough?
And you'll see the FSW's now claiming the credit for the current flock of youngsters being trialled by Dalglish (in last Sunday's Times).
-
Dalgliesh has played them because he doesn't have much choice in the matter.
I've not said that the only thing that would make me happy is Rafa. Do I think there are better managers than him out there? Yes I do. My argument is the fact that he is being rubbished for all his achievements as not good enough to become our manager.
-
Valencia's decline links with the fact they had NO money and had to sell anyone who was considered a star. They've gone through a rebuilding since he left, and finally seem slightly more settled, but still need to sell to survive - really. What he did at Valencia was good - a side that was brimming with the potential to win things - he kicked them on and they won things, but what he did at Liverpool wasn't great. It was okay. Two cups in six years for a club the size of Liverpool isn't good. Would it be better for a club in our position? Maybe - but could he achieve that here? I don't think so.
I'm not saying he isn't good enough, I'm saying he isn't my first choice - and that his achievements don't make me feel like he's better suited than someone like Moyes. If he did end up as our manager, I'd give him my full support however.
-
Dalgliesh has played them because he doesn't have much choice in the matter.
I've not said that the only thing that would make me happy is Rafa. Do I think there are better managers than him out there? Yes I do. My argument is the fact that he is being rubbished for all his achievements as not good enough to become our manager.
And I wasn't disagreeing with you, VSM!
For me, the ideal would be Paul Lambert in as manager with GHou upstairs doing the international networking and overseeing of the playing style. It would be a win-win because Lambert would get the chance of a big club and the mentoring of a seasoned footballing man. Villa would get a manager who's cut his teeth in the championship, has a pretty good playing history and seems to be a winner.
Similar situation could be foreseen with McDermott of Reading although his credentials are less burnished.
I suspect it won't happen though, in which case the FSW, Hughes, Moyes, Jol and McLaren are all reasonable options. None of them fill me with delight, I have to say.
Owen Coyle would raise the blood pressure, in a positive sense.
-
Dalgliesh has played them because he doesn't have much choice in the matter.
I've not said that the only thing that would make me happy is Rafa. Do I think there are better managers than him out there? Yes I do. My argument is the fact that he is being rubbished for all his achievements as not good enough to become our manager.
I know you didn't say that it would make you happy the same way i didn't say that signing Hitz would make me happy.
What Rafa did at Valencia was great, no question about it. But since then, has he gone to a lesser side and been successful? Are you willing to take that risk at villa especially after the season we have just had? I think thts why alot of villa fans (not all) would prefer someone like David Moyes to come in and bring back some stability and he has a lot of premiership experience (something like 8 years?) its the safer option i think.
-
Valencia's decline links with the fact they had NO money and had to sell anyone who was considered a star. They've gone through a rebuilding since he left, and finally seem slightly more settled, but still need to sell to survive - really. What he did at Valencia was good - a side that was brimming with the potential to win things - he kicked them on and they won things, but what he did at Liverpool wasn't great. It was okay. Two cups in six years for a club the size of Liverpool isn't good. Would it be better for a club in our position? Maybe - but could he achieve that here? I don't think so.
During his time though he was competing with the strongest Chelsea team they've had, Man Utd and all that they bring and also a strong (although on the decline) Arsenal side. Considering all that and the backroom turmoil that was happening at Liverpool I don't think anyone would've done much better there.
His biggest fuck up came when he was rattled by Fergie which brought on his "Fact" rant. But he is not the first manager that has lost it there, and he won't be the last either.
-
Dalgliesh has played them because he doesn't have much choice in the matter.
I've not said that the only thing that would make me happy is Rafa. Do I think there are better managers than him out there? Yes I do. My argument is the fact that he is being rubbished for all his achievements as not good enough to become our manager.
And I wasn't disagreeing with you, VSM!
For me, the ideal would be Paul Lambert in as manager with GHou upstairs doing the international networking and overseeing of the playing style. It would be a win-win because Lambert would get the chance of a big club and the mentoring of a seasoned footballing man. Villa would get a manager who's cut his teeth in the championship, has a pretty good playing history and seems to be a winner.
Similar situation could be foreseen with McDermott of Reading although his credentials are less burnished.
I suspect it won't happen though, in which case the FSW, Hughes, Moyes, Jol and McLaren are all reasonable options. None of them fill me with delight, I have to say.
Owen Coyle would raise the blood pressure, in a positive sense.
Only just seen your post about Rafa, EffDee - my reply was to Rick.
-
I think thts why alot of villa fans (not all) would prefer someone like David Moyes to come in and bring back some stability and he has a lot of premiership experience (something like 8 years?) its the safer option i think.
Safety in the context sounds like going back into MONworld ... we need something different to our recent epxeriences; where we can build on the good things (emphasis on youth; more attractive gameplay) and consign the bad things to the history books.
I just don't see the former happening under Moyes, but I may be very wrong!
-
I think that's about right. Moyes would be the safe option - we'd be steady almost immediately, push on again for top six. Benitez would be more unpredictable and there's a chance the first season would be akin to a rollercoaster ride - but he may end up taking us higher than Moyes could.
-
My question would be then "Why is it that British mangers rarely get the top jobs?"
Because top clubs want proven winners as managers. And not many of them (except Ferguson) are British.
So why should we be any different then?
To become a top club, should we behave like one, or should we behave like a club trying to become one?
Even so, Benitez is my favourite, but he would be a risky appointment. I just think that he has a certain nous that Moyes lacks, even though Moyes would be a solid and less riskier appointment. Hughes did well at Blackburn results-wise, but I don't think his overall managerial career is spectacular. My feeling is that he's more likely to become another MON than Moyes is.
-
Having listened to the Guardian podcast, the thing that pissed me off about Benitez is his claims of wanting to go to a club not to win trophies but to build something. This reminds me of GH when he first arrived at Villa Park, I got the impression he was far too comfortable and he felt time was on his side. It took two serious kickings from the fans (Liverpool away and the calling for his head) before he finally realised exactly who are Aston Villa.
Whoever comes in this summer has to realise that we desperately want and expect to be up there at the top end of the table, results do matter and at the same time a solid plan for the future has to be put in place. It's not one or the other. Expectations at the club, whether rightly or not, are higher than those on the outside imagine. We've had more than our share of dull football so we need a manager that understands 21st century football. We also need a man that will get the very best from his squad and who the players will give everything for, week in, week out.
If Benitez thinks he needs a nice, comfortable, well paid job where expectations are not too high, he should look elsewhere. We've had enough of managers thinking they're bigger than the club and that we should be grateful to have them. We need somebody who's hungry and looking to prove themselves, creating a team and environment where players want stay whilst others want to join us and Randy needs to increase the ground capacity.
-
This season was an example of a rollercoaster. An unsuspected, non-safe, off-the-wall option and we had a relegation battle. Might just be me, but if Moyes could get us a solid strong squad again and push for the top six, we'd be in a better position. If it got to the point that he then couldn't take us further, we could make the 'unpredictable' appointment. At that point we'd have a better squad, be stable and have had a solid few seasons.
I see both sides - I just feel like we need that steady and solid appointment to rebuild us. However.. only if that man was Moyes of Hughes. If neither would be available, then I'd be prepared to go more rollercoaster. I've seen Paul Lambert's name mentioned... just wondered what people have seen in him to think he'd be ready for the step up as I haven't seen anything of him really.
-
Having listened to the Guardian podcast, the thing that pissed me off about Benitez is his claims of wanting to go to a club not to win trophies but to build something. This reminds me of GH when he first arrived at Villa Park, I got the impression he was far too comfortable and he felt time was on his side. It took two serious kickings from the fans (Liverpool away and the calling for his head) before he finally realised exactly who are Aston Villa.
Whoever comes in this summer has to realise that we desperately want and expect to be up there at the top end of the table, results do matter and at the same time a solid plan for the future has to be put in place. It's not one or the other. Expectations at the club, whether rightly or not, are higher than those on the outside imagine. We've had more than our share of dull football so we need a manager that understands 21st century football. We also need a man that will get the very best from his squad and who the players will give everything for, week in, week out.
If Benitez thinks he needs a nice, comfortable, well paid job where expectations are not too high, he should look elsewhere. We've had enough of managers thinking they're bigger than the club and that we should be grateful to have them. We need somebody who's hungry and looking to prove themselves, creating a team and environment where players want stay whilst others want to join us and Randy needs to increase the ground capacity.
This.
-
Having listened to the Guardian podcast, the thing that pissed me off about Benitez is his claims of wanting to go to a club not to win trophies but to build something. This reminds me of GH when he first arrived at Villa Park, I got the impression he was far too comfortable and he felt time was on his side. It took two serious kickings from the fans (Liverpool away and the calling for his head) before he finally realised exactly who are Aston Villa.
Whoever comes in this summer has to realise that we desperately want and expect to be up there at the top end of the table, results do matter and at the same time a solid plan for the future has to be put in place. It's not one or the other. Expectations at the club, whether rightly or not, are higher than those on the outside imagine. We've had more than our share of dull football so we need a manager that understands 21st century football. We also need a man that will get the very best from his squad and who the players will give everything for, week in, week out.
If Benitez thinks he needs a nice, comfortable, well paid job where expectations are not too high, he should look elsewhere. We've had enough of managers thinking they're bigger than the club and that we should be grateful to have them. We need somebody who's hungry and looking to prove themselves, creating a team and environment where players want stay whilst others want to join us and Randy needs to increase the ground capacity.
Spot on MK.
-
Having listened to the Guardian podcast, the thing that pissed me off about Benitez is his claims of wanting to go to a club not to win trophies but to build something. This reminds me of GH when he first arrived at Villa Park, I got the impression he was far too comfortable and he felt time was on his side. It took two serious kickings from the fans (Liverpool away and the calling for his head) before he finally realised exactly who are Aston Villa.
Whoever comes in this summer has to realise that we desperately want and expect to be up there at the top end of the table, results do matter and at the same time a solid plan for the future has to be put in place. It's not one or the other. Expectations at the club, whether rightly or not, are higher than those on the outside imagine. We've had more than our share of dull football so we need a manager that understands 21st century football. We also need a man that will get the very best from his squad and who the players will give everything for, week in, week out.
If Benitez thinks he needs a nice, comfortable, well paid job where expectations are not too high, he should look elsewhere. We've had enough of managers thinking they're bigger than the club and that we should be grateful to have them. We need somebody who's hungry and looking to prove themselves, creating a team and environment where players want stay whilst others want to join us and Randy needs to increase the ground capacity.
Nah.
I think you're reading too much into him knowing that he's not going to waltz into a big-time, ready-made club this time around.
Do you think we're ready-made for the top four? Do you not think we need building? A decent base for someone like Benitez to work from sure.
-
I can't help thinking that, if we follow the middle ground between a safe and steady option (Moyes) and someone a tad more adventurous who could eventually steer us towards bigger and better things (Benitez), we come to....
Martin Jol.
-
Its difficult to see that Moyes would offer us anything that MON didnt.
Benitez or hughes for me.
-
how many youth players did rafa bring through at Liverpool? Ask any liverpool fan, he ruined their youth policy and he will do the same at villa. the likes of Bannan, Albrighton will not get a look in. I wouldnt be happy with Rafa as manager but would support him as all I want is for the villa to do well and be succesful and there wouldnt be no point in being negative from the start.
Ironic, as everything I have read is that Benitez re-built the youth set up and it is his work that is now paying dividends, which makes sense as there is bound to be a delay in productivity when you're talking about youth football.
-
I hate to bring up the dreaded director of football/technical director role again but I notice that Hodson has been saying how good the guy at West Brom is, providing (a small amount of) evidence that the role can work in the UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/16/west-bromwich-albion-everton-premier-league
-
Its difficult to see that Moyes would offer us anything that MON didnt.
Benitez or hughes for me.
You forget the eyes...The eyes...
-
how many youth players did rafa bring through at Liverpool? Ask any liverpool fan, he ruined their youth policy and he will do the same at villa. the likes of Bannan, Albrighton will not get a look in. I wouldnt be happy with Rafa as manager but would support him as all I want is for the villa to do well and be succesful and there wouldnt be no point in being negative from the start.
Ironic, as everything I have read is that Benitez re-built the youth set up and it is his work that is now paying dividends, which makes sense as there is bound to be a delay in productivity when you're talking about youth football.
They also won back to back Youth Cup Finals whilst he was there.
-
Its difficult to see that Moyes would offer us anything that MON didnt.
Benitez or hughes for me.
He did it with tiny amount of cash that MON had & nothing to choose between them over the seasons Martin was here.
-
Its difficult to see that Moyes would offer us anything that MON didnt.
Benitez or hughes for me.
He did it with tiny amount of cash that MON had & nothing to choose between them over the seasons Martin was here.
As I've said before about this theory that Moyes had little money to spend (or tiny amount of cash) -
(http://avoidingthedrop.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/evertona1.jpg?w=500&h=102)
That's a fair whack of cash there. (Just over £65m on 6 players to be exact).
-
Here's a link to all Benitez's tranfer dealings during his 6 years at Anfield. He certainly likes to dabble in the transfer market, bringing in 77 players.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/7675751/Rafael-Benitezs-transfer-dealings-during-his-six-year-reign-at-Liverpool.html
There's also an interesting link to a Henry Winter article there that's well worth a read. The only surprising thing is that he spent less in 6 years than MON spent in 4.
-
Its difficult to see that Moyes would offer us anything that MON didnt.
Benitez or hughes for me.
He did it with tiny amount of cash that MON had & nothing to choose between them over the seasons Martin was here.
As I've said before about this theory that Moyes had little money to spend (or tiny amount of cash) -
(http://avoidingthedrop.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/evertona1.jpg?w=500&h=102)
That's a fair whack of cash there. (Just over £65m on 6 players to be exact).
Fair point, but how does that compare to MON? Just a question. I still think he is best choice for the job currently.
-
Off the top of my head, the top 6 signings (price wise) made by MoN would be -
Milner £12m
Downing £12m
Young £9.5m
Reo-Coker £8.5m
Cuellar £7.8m
Warnock £6m
TOTAL - £55.8m
Have I missed anyone bigger?
-
Off the top of my head, the top 6 signings (price wise) made by MoN would be -
Milner £12m
Downing £12m
Young £9.5m
Reo-Coker £8.5m
Cuellar £7.8m
Warnock £6m
TOTAL - £55.8m
Have I missed anyone bigger?
Davies
-
I honestly don't understand see what Mark Hughes would offer us. I see him a bit of a nearly man, who gets work on the back of his name alone.
-
Its difficult to see that Moyes would offer us anything that MON didnt.
Benitez or hughes for me.
He did it with tiny amount of cash that MON had & nothing to choose between them over the seasons Martin was here.
As I've said before about this theory that Moyes had little money to spend (or tiny amount of cash) -
(http://avoidingthedrop.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/evertona1.jpg?w=500&h=102)
That's a fair whack of cash there. (Just over £65m on 6 players to be exact).
Big difference, Moyes actually finished 4th, he was just very unlucky in the team they got in the qualifiers.
And I think net spend should be considered there because he recouped around £55 million from just 2 players(Rooney, Lescott)
MON sold Cahill for fuck all and bought Zat Knight, says it all really.
-
Its difficult to see that Moyes would offer us anything that MON didnt.
Benitez or hughes for me.
He did it with tiny amount of cash that MON had & nothing to choose between them over the seasons Martin was here.
As I've said before about this theory that Moyes had little money to spend (or tiny amount of cash) -
(http://avoidingthedrop.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/evertona1.jpg?w=500&h=102)
That's a fair whack of cash there. (Just over £65m on 6 players to be exact).
Big difference, Moyes actually finished 4th, he was just very unlucky in the team they got in the qualifiers.
And I think net spend should be considered there because he recouped around £55 million from just 2 players(Rooney, Lescott)
MON sold Cahill for fuck all and bought Zat Knight, says it all really.
MoN sold Cahill for £5m didn't he?
I can see your point about the "net", but he got lucky with having Rooney coming through. Lescott though he sold on for a good profit.
-
Moyes did extremely well to screw as much as he did out of Man City for Lescott. It was ridiculous money.
The fact that Everton take an age to get going every season is one thing that's putting me off him slightly.
-
Having listened to the Guardian podcast, the thing that pissed me off about Benitez is his claims of wanting to go to a club not to win trophies but to build something.
I haven't heard the podcast, but did he say that he wanted to build something as opposed to winning trophies. His record of winning things is the main reason why I'm starting to side with the Benitez fraction; his record of building something is only so-so. I think one of his main strengths is his ability to come up with a specific game plan to win a specific (cup) match. This leads me to believe that three seasons of Benitez is more likely to bring a trophy than three seasons of Moyes.
As an aside, I know there are some similarities between Houllier and Benitez (both foreigners; both previous Liverpool managers; both have a mixed transfer record), but as managers they are quite different. I remember, Mr. Kelly, last August you had Houllier down as a French version of MON. (winky thing)
-
I don't think anyone is seriously making the argument that Rafa's previous trophy haul is insufficient for a club like Villa.
It's more a case that such factors are not the only consideration. Otherwise, you're effectively advocating a painting by numbers approach to selecting a manager. Giovanni Trapattoni probably trumps all of the names listed a few times over for total honours won. I'm not sure I'd want him either.
To judge it purely on past honours ignores the unique circumstances that led to that success. Yes, of course the manager will have played a crucial part in that. But quality of squad at the time, quality of competition and the luck of the draw in cup competitions all play a part too.
Like Mark, I'm not overly enamoured with the idea of another manager thinking he can come here in cruise control either, that he can have a nice, comfortable gig for a few years outside of the pressure cooker atmosphere associated with some clubs.
Houllier copped (Kopped?) on to the idea late that we're (to quote Ron Burgundy) kind of a big deal. A little too late, unfortunately. The next guy shouldn't make the same mistake.
-
As an aside, I know there are some similarities between Houllier and Benitez (both foreigners; both previous Liverpool managers; both have a mixed transfer record), but as managers they are quite different. I remember, Mr. Kelly, last August you had Houllier down as a French version of MON. (winky thing)
I said no such thing. Still, if you want to do a Chris Smith and rewrite history, help yourself. (winky)
I do remember somebody that had the same user-name as you saying Morten Gamst Pedersen and Ricardo Carvalho would never make it in the Premier League. No wonder you disappeared for so many years! (snigger)
As for Benitez, I've mixed feelings. His defensive football, his obsession to buy and sell so many players in every transfer window but most of all, why he wants the job. As for him being similar to Houllier, this is worth a read from their time at Liverpool:
http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/05/adios-senor-bonjour-monsieur/
-
Good old Mark. Still beating me with the same old stick.
I agree with some of your reservations, though (that he'd view us as a step down or a harmless opportunity to try out his new whim about building something), but I don't think his football was particularly defensive. The season Liverpool came second, they were arguably the most entertaining team in the country. My biggest fear is that he would start causing trouble (he fell out with his superiors both at Valencia, Liverpool and Inter).
To judge it purely on past honours ignores the unique circumstances that led to that success.
I'm not sure if this was aimed at me, but I don't think anyone wants to select a new manager based on one single criteria.
-
[quote author
http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/05/adios-senor-bonjour-monsieur/
[/quote]A very informative article, they both bought crap, it appears that Benitez bought less crap
-
this is worth a read from their time at Liverpool:
http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/05/adios-senor-bonjour-monsieur/
Excellent read - tries to harmonise the comparisons well and is a balanced argument. Thanks, Mark.
-
indeed a good read. I wonder what JPA would cost based on the transfer inflation thingy used?
-
Having listened to the Guardian podcast, the thing that pissed me off about Benitez is his claims of wanting to go to a club not to win trophies but to build something. This reminds me of GH when he first arrived at Villa Park, I got the impression he was far too comfortable and he felt time was on his side. It took two serious kickings from the fans (Liverpool away and the calling for his head) before he finally realised exactly who are Aston Villa.
Whoever comes in this summer has to realise that we desperately want and expect to be up there at the top end of the table, results do matter and at the same time a solid plan for the future has to be put in place. It's not one or the other. Expectations at the club, whether rightly or not, are higher than those on the outside imagine. We've had more than our share of dull football so we need a manager that understands 21st century football. We also need a man that will get the very best from his squad and who the players will give everything for, week in, week out.
If Benitez thinks he needs a nice, comfortable, well paid job where expectations are not too high, he should look elsewhere. We've had enough of managers thinking they're bigger than the club and that we should be grateful to have them. We need somebody who's hungry and looking to prove themselves, creating a team and environment where players want stay whilst others want to join us and Randy needs to increase the ground capacity.
Well said Mark.
-
Its difficult to see that Moyes would offer us anything that MON didnt.
Benitez or hughes for me.
He did it with tiny amount of cash that MON had & nothing to choose between them over the seasons Martin was here.
As I've said before about this theory that Moyes had little money to spend (or tiny amount of cash) -
(http://avoidingthedrop.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/evertona1.jpg?w=500&h=102)
That's a fair whack of cash there. (Just over £65m on 6 players to be exact).
Big difference, Moyes actually finished 4th, he was just very unlucky in the team they got in the qualifiers.
And I think net spend should be considered there because he recouped around £55 million from just 2 players(Rooney, Lescott)
MON sold Cahill for fuck all and bought Zat Knight, says it all really.
MoN sold Cahill for £5m didn't he?
I can see your point about the "net", but he got lucky with having Rooney coming through. Lescott though he sold on for a good profit.
Thinking about it though, he never got lucky with Rooney, it just so happened he went for 30 million, which Moyes spent on players. If he hadn't have had Rooney he would have had 30 million less to spend.
Does anybody know what Moyes net spend is compared to MON?
I really like Moyes and he is my number 1 choice.
-
that list contains transfers from 2004 anyway. he's bound to have spent a fair bit in 8 years.. to a get sensible comparison with MON you'd have to include all DOL's transfers as well. Also notice that on two of his big deals he got a decent wedge back in one case and made a profit on the other!
-
Benitez would stroll in VP believing he was doing us a favour. Any potential manager who exudes this feeling amongst the fans should be left alone.
We need a young up and coming manager with a bit of mongrel in him, who lives and breaths for Villa.
We tend to warm to managers like this, it's a gamble, but one I think is worth taking. I think as a club we need to find our own way and march to our own tune.
-
My issue with the idea 'young up and coming manager' is their ability to attract and sign the top players. I may have been critical of him, but Houllier well known name in the game and that would have helped us sign Bent. Would he have signed for someone like Paul Lambert or similar, especially given our league position at the time?
Moyes, however, is a good balance between the two.
-
Its difficult to see that Moyes would offer us anything that MON didnt.
Benitez or hughes for me.
What could hughes offer that's different then? I'm not advocating Moyes by the way, I'm equally uncertain about both.
-
Among the likeliest candidates/those we're most heavily linked with (Moyes, Hughes and Benitez), I'd prefer the Spaniard. But ideally, I would like us to gamble on an up-and-coming manager, someone like Villas-Boas, Flores or Thomas Tuchel. When it comes to building something (setting up a scouting network, develop the youth programme), it would perhaps be better to have someone with more experience. But I think these tasks should be left to someone who doesn't have to leave his job if the team loses three games on the trot.
-
Its difficult to see that Moyes would offer us anything that MON didnt.
Benitez or hughes for me.
What could hughes offer that's different then? I'm not advocating Moyes by the way, I'm equally uncertain about both.
If every club took that approach then no manager would ever get a "promotion" to a bigger/more ambitious club. You have to judge them on the job they've done given the circumstances they have worked under.
Moyes has done enough, if he wants it, to earn a crack at a club who will back him more consistently. I'm not saying that he's the right man for the job as I'm genuinely not sure, but there's a certain logic to him moving to Villa Park. I think it is short sighted to assume that because he's hit a wall with Everton the same would happen here.
I think I'd prefer a manager like him who still thinks he has something to prove to one who, it could be argued, has his best years behind him.
-
I think I'd prefer a manager like him who still thinks he has something to prove to one who, it could be argued, has his best years behind him.
It's a difficult distinction, though. Some people suggested that SAF had had his best years behind after the 2001-02 season (when Man Utd finished third), but he has managed to do ok even though he looked "past it" at the time.
The best managers don't tire of winning.
-
I really want Rafa as manager. He'll have learnt from his time at Liverpool, he's so driven, spends ages on the training field, journalists who know him say he wants to build something, he's the right age, has the right experience in this country and has won shedloads... Big name in Spain so can attract young Spaniards.
My only worry is the criticisms of him in the past (such as he's never been a player so doesn't 'trust' players) and is a bit 'cold' towards players (Benty for example needs an arm around him).
But ultimately he makes teams hardworking, he makes them a team, his midfield is versatile and his forwards score goals. One of my criticisms of O'Neill was his inability to make a 'team', he just had 11 individuals who looked after their on bit. Rafa makes teams fluid.
-
I really want Rafa as manager. He'll have learnt from his time at Liverpool, he's so driven, spends ages on the training field, journalists who know him say he wants to build something, he's the right age, has the right experience in this country and has won shedloads... Big name in Spain so can attract young Spaniards.
My only worry is the criticisms of him in the past (such as he's never been a player so doesn't 'trust' players) and is a bit 'cold' towards players (Benty for example needs an arm around him).
But ultimately he makes teams hardworking, he makes them a team, his midfield is versatile and his forwards score goals. One of my criticisms of O'Neill was his inability to make a 'team', he just had 11 individuals who looked after their on bit. Rafa makes teams fluid.
I'm not cold on the idea of Benitez but you must admit he bought some absolute dross at 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'. That'd be a worry as although he'll recieve some backling, he'll need to be shrewd in the market if we are to compete for anything approaching a Champions League spot.
Can't agree at all with you over MON not building a 'team' mentality. The whole side worked as a well drilled unit under MON, it was the style that was hard to watch.
-
I'm not cold on the idea of Benitez but you must admit he bought some absolute dross at 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'.
First up - I'm not a fan of Benitez and don't want him as our manager.
However, I must say that I had similar reservations about Gezza, yet his transfer dealings here have been the (only!) highlight of his tenure!
-
I really want Rafa as manager. He'll have learnt from his time at Liverpool, he's so driven, spends ages on the training field, journalists who know him say he wants to build something, he's the right age, has the right experience in this country and has won shedloads... Big name in Spain so can attract young Spaniards.
My only worry is the criticisms of him in the past (such as he's never been a player so doesn't 'trust' players) and is a bit 'cold' towards players (Benty for example needs an arm around him).
But ultimately he makes teams hardworking, he makes them a team, his midfield is versatile and his forwards score goals. One of my criticisms of O'Neill was his inability to make a 'team', he just had 11 individuals who looked after their on bit. Rafa makes teams fluid.
I'm not cold on the idea of Benitez but you must admit he bought some absolute dross at 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'. That'd be a worry as although he'll recieve some backling, he'll need to be shrewd in the market if we are to compete for anything approaching a Champions League spot.
Can't agree at all with you over MON not building a 'team' mentality. The whole side worked as a well drilled unit under MON, it was the style that was hard to watch.
Was a constant battle with the owners though. He genuinely wanted Simao and Alves but had to get Rieira and Johnson instead.
Johnson was overpriced but he was backed into a corner because Pompey couldn't give them the Crouch money so it was either that or less money to spend and a right back issue.
At the end of the day: Reina, Mascherano, Alonso and Torres are four world class signings. Only Torres was deemed a massive coup at the time of arrival, all made an immediate impact. Agger, Kuyt and Benayoun were absolutely fantastic signings too.
-
Not a fan of FSW's style of football really. My scouse mate thought it was pretty shite as well, though you could say he built a half decent side without really threatening the supremacy of the Mancs and Chelsea. I think Moyes given the same money would have built a similar side and probably more entertaining
-
If every club took that approach then no manager would ever get a "promotion" to a bigger/more ambitious club. You have to judge them on the job they've done given the circumstances they have worked under.
Moyes has done enough, if he wants it, to earn a crack at a club who will back him more consistently. I'm not saying that he's the right man for the job as I'm genuinely not sure, but there's a certain logic to him moving to Villa Park. I think it is short sighted to assume that because he's hit a wall with Everton the same would happen here.
I think I'd prefer a manager like him who still thinks he has something to prove to one who, it could be argued, has his best years behind him.
I see where you're coming from Chris, but I would argue that someone like Paul Lambert is more deserving of the type of promotion you are talking about, rather than Moyes. Lambert has tangible success to claim in two back-to-back promotions. Moyes has nothing, barring one (I think it's only one) cup final appearance and generally plodding along in the premier league. Granted, there's a case to be made for him doing well under the difficult financial constraints that he finds himself in, but even taking that into account, I'm unconvinced.
-
Not a fan of FSW's style of football really. My scouse mate thought it was pretty shite as well, though you could say he built a half decent side without really threatening the supremacy of the Mancs and Chelsea. I think Moyes given the same money would have built a similar side and probably more entertaining
But for an Arshavin super-show at Anfield he may have won the league. He was very, very close... And then he was unable to invest further and the heart of his team was ripped out when Alonso left.
-
I'm not cold on the idea of Benitez but you must admit he bought some absolute dross at 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'.
First up - I'm not a fan of Benitez and don't want him as our manager.
However, I must say that I had similar reservations about Gezza, yet his transfer dealings here have been the (only!) highlight of his tenure!
Well, he bought Bent, and how much that was down to him or the board I would say is open to question. I couldn't argue that any of his other signings have been particularly inspiring even if we do chlk Bent down as a Houllier masterstroke.
-
And then he was unable to invest further and the heart of his team was ripped out when Alonso left.
You mean he let Alonso leave and then couldn't replace him?
-
Not a fan of FSW's style of football really. My scouse mate thought it was pretty shite as well, though you could say he built a half decent side without really threatening the supremacy of the Mancs and Chelsea. I think Moyes given the same money would have built a similar side and probably more entertaining
But for an Arshavin super-show at Anfield he may have won the league. He was very, very close... And then he was unable to invest further and the heart of his team was ripped out when Alonso left.
It was his choice to let Alonso go. He was ready to sell him the season before to bring in Gareth Barry.
-
His handling of Alonso, alienating him with the inevitable consequence of the player then leaving, was one of Benitez's biggest mistakes while at Liverpool, IMO.
But in terms of making them a force to challenge Man U and Chelsea - I think he did exactly that. Two CL finals in three years, winning one, and mounting the strongest Liverpool title challenge in 20 years.
-
Among the likeliest candidates/those we're most heavily linked with (Moyes, Hughes and Benitez), I'd prefer the Spaniard. But ideally, I would like us to gamble on an up-and-coming manager, someone like Villas-Boas, Flores or Thomas Tuchel. When it comes to building something (setting up a scouting network, develop the youth programme), it would perhaps be better to have someone with more experience. But I think these tasks should be left to someone who doesn't have to leave his job if the team loses three games on the trot.
I agree with all of that.
I'd even think about including Lambert in the list of contenders.
-
Concerning RB has anyone considered the prospect of Zonal marking?
I think Lambert is gonna be something special,would like to see us get him before someone else does.
-
I can imagine Percy killing a kitten upon reading that remark.
Considering the fact our players are used to zonal marking and have only started defending like tarts when we tried to change away from it it isn't really something we should worry about IF he gets the job.
-
I can imagine Percy killing a kitten upon reading that remark.
Considering the fact our players are used to zonal marking and have only started defending like tarts when we tried to change away from it it isn't really something we should worry about IF he gets the job.
From an interview with Martin Laursen conducted by Mat Kendrick in February:
FORMER favourite Martin Laursen has leapt to the defence of the claret and blue backline over Villa’s worrying vulnerability at setpieces.
Gerard Houllier’s men have the Premier League’s worst record for conceding from corners having let in 11 goals from flag-kicks so far this season.
It is in stark contrast to Laursen’s days at the heart of Villa’s defence when Martin O’Neill’s setpiece specialists were dominant in both boxes.
However, the Danish defender believes the claret and blues are still adjusting to a different way of marking from deadball situations.
Under O’Neill, Villa tended to use a zonal system where players were charged with the task of clearing the ball from a designated part of the penalty box.
Houllier, meanwhile, favours more of a man-marking approach where each of the defenders is assigned a particular opponent to deal with.
Laursen believes the tactical change could account for the setpiece susceptibility which reared its ugly head for Blackpool’s equaliser in last weekend’s 1-1 draw at Bloomfield Road.
But the retired ex-captain is convinced Richard Dunne, James Collins and Co have the quality and experience to adapt to Houllier’s system before too long.
Regular watchers this season have noted that, although Villa put a man on the near post, they have struggled to defend the space directly in front of it, unintentionally inviting opponents to attack that area.
Goalkeeper Brad Friedel’s tendency to stay on his line or occasionally come for and miss deliveries into the six-yard box also seems to have unnerved the defence.
“I don’t know the exact reason for it,” said Laursen who popped back to Villa’s Bodymoor Heath headquarters to say hello on Thursday.
“If you look at last season I don’t think Villa conceded that many goals from corners and free-kicks and they still scored a lot from corners and free-kicks also.
“I don’t think it was a problem defensively or offensively, but this season they just haven’t seemed to perform as well.
“I think that they have changed the way they defend setpieces. I think that Houllier has changed it.
“He is not zone marking, but he is man marking. With Martin O’Neill we always had our zone and that worked well. I enjoyed that.
“I think when I’ve watched the games they’re not just staying in their zones, but they pick a man and follow him. They might not be that comfortable with that.
“If a manager wants that and you’ve been used to zone marking for a couple of seasons then it takes a little bit of time to adjust. Also it’s important everyone is sure about their job and what they have to do.”
“It’s crucial to get it right. I remember Martin O’Neill always said how crucial setpieces are. That’s modern football.
“It’s crucial that you’re willing to put your head on the ball defensively and offensively, because you get so many situations where you have to defend or have the possibility to score goals from setpieces. It’s vital to perform well.”
-
Well, he bought Bent, and how much that was down to him or the board I would say is open to question. I couldn't argue that any of his other signings have been particularly inspiring even if we do chlk Bent down as a Houllier masterstroke.
If we exclude the short term/desperation signing of Pires, that leaves Bent, Bradley, Makoun and Walker. Bent and Walker have unquestionably improved us, Makoun looks promising and has failed, but to be fair that was only a loan move so no harm done. I'd call that a pretty decent record overall!
-
Well, he bought Bent, and how much that was down to him or the board I would say is open to question. I couldn't argue that any of his other signings have been particularly inspiring even if we do chlk Bent down as a Houllier masterstroke.
If we exclude the short term/desperation signing of Pires, that leaves Bent, Bradley, Makoun and Walker. Bent and Walker have unquestionably improved us, Makoun looks promising and Bradley has failed, but to be fair that was only a loan move so no harm done. I'd call that a pretty decent record overall!
I presume you missed one word out of that comment, John?
-
Yep - cheers for the edit!
-
I think Lambert is gonna be something special,would like to see us get him before someone else does.
Can somebody give me the lowdown on Lambert? Apart from getting Norwich promoted, I know nothing about him but his name is always appearing on here.
-
Won the European Cup? Check
Managed Wycombe? Check
Managed Norwich? Check
So just Leicester and Celtic to go before he comes to Villa!
-
I think Lambert is gonna be something special,would like to see us get him before someone else does.
Can somebody give me the lowdown on Lambert? Apart from getting Norwich promoted, I know nothing about him but his name is always appearing on here.
I am paraphrasing from a guardian podcast from they had been promoted but a Norwich fan/journalist on the show was very complementary. Well drilled teams which fight for each other. No big stars. They have scored shedloads of goals in the last 5-minutes apparently which is seen to demonstrate the team's fitness and togetherness.
He did his coaching badges is Germany and apparently has adopted the usual german stereotypes of efficiency, hard work, eating sausages etc etc.
To be honest I could not tell you what formation etc he likes to use.
I would be very intrigued by a Lambert/Klinsmann dream team. Lambert running the first team squad and Klinsmann as a technical director.
-
I think Lambert is gonna be something special,would like to see us get him before someone else does.
Can somebody give me the lowdown on Lambert? Apart from getting Norwich promoted, I know nothing about him but his name is always appearing on here.
Promoted twice in 2 seasons.
-
Lambert's an up and coming star in the managerial world, it seems. I remember two seasons ago his Colchester side thrashed Norwich 7-0 (or 7-1) on the opening day of the season - a short time later Norwich made him their new manager and they haven't looked back since.
Still, a big, big leap for us to turn to him next season. A cautionary tale from my local side, Peterborough United - they won consecutive promotions under Darren Ferguson, scoring loads and loads of goals; Ferguson was touted as the next big young manager. First season in the Championship, Peterborough sank like a stone, Ferguson went to Preston, struggled there and now Ferguson's back at Peterborough. He's still a good manager, I think, and may well yet manage at a higher level, but it's an example of a younger manager perhaps not as ready for the step up as people think.
Lambert's going to have a steep learning curve next season. I'd rather it wasn't with us. One to keep tabs on for the future though.
-
I think Lambert is gonna be something special,would like to see us get him before someone else does.
Can somebody give me the lowdown on Lambert? Apart from getting Norwich promoted, I know nothing about him but his name is always appearing on here.
Promoted twice in 2 seasons.
Won Champions League as a player at Dortmund
-
Just read on the Mirror's site so ...shall I bother?
Lambert has allegedly been offered a 1.6m contract at Norwich which is heavily performance based i.e. keeping Norwich up etc. He wants a higher basic salary and has been linked with the hammers as a result.
-
I can imagine Percy killing a kitten upon reading that remark.
Considering the fact our players are used to zonal marking and have only started defending like tarts when we tried to change away from it it isn't really something we should worry about IF he gets the job.
Spot on, and my cat lives.
What has put Puss in danger even more than various posters not realising what's happened re: zonal marking, is Houllier lying about it.
-
Regarding Houlliers transfers: His transfer record at Liverpool is pretty poor, but I'm not sure that's because he's a poor judge of players. I think a major factor is that he was expected to win the league without actually having the money to sign PL-winning players. The result was that he gambled on promising but unproven players: Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou, Le Tallec, Sinama-Pongolle etc. It was a gamble that didn't work: none of the signings became good. At Aston Villa he has signed one of the most proven goalscorers in the PL plus a midfielder who has played in a Champions League semi final.
Regarding Barry/Alonso/Aquilani (Benitez): Benitez was allegedly told that Liverpool had the money to sign Barry in the summer of 2008. Suddenly the money wasn't there, and Benitez made a last desperate (and ill-advised) attempt to fund the transfer by offering Alonso to several clubs. The next summer Alonso was sold, and Benitez was allegedly told that Liverpool had money to sign both Aquilani and Stevan Jovetic (from Fiorentina). But once again the money disappeared, and they only signed Aquilani, whose injury was more serious than they thought.
-
I think Lambert is gonna be something special,would like to see us get him before someone else does.
Can somebody give me the lowdown on Lambert? Apart from getting Norwich promoted, I know nothing about him but his name is always appearing on here.
He looks good, but in my more cynical moments I remember back to Graham Turner being thought of in only marginally less glowing terms as an up-and-coming manager (got Shrewsbury promoted and to a couple of FA Cup quarter-finals). And after that I get quite sad...
-
Livingston-resigned after only winning two games
Wycombe-resigned after losing in the league two play offs
Colchester-resigned after a mid-table finish the previous season
He's had a great two years at Norwich but I'mnot quite ready to start the Lambert for Villa campaign just yet.
-
Regarding Houlliers transfers: His transfer record at Liverpool is pretty poor, but I'm not sure that's because he's a poor judge of players. I think a major factor is that he was expected to win the league without actually having the money to sign PL-winning players.
I'm sure there was a report soon after he signed up here comparing his Redscouse transfers with ol' laughing boy Fergiescum. Between 1998 up until about 2002 Houllier had spent more.
-
Regarding Houlliers transfers: His transfer record at Liverpool is pretty poor, but I'm not sure that's because he's a poor judge of players. I think a major factor is that he was expected to win the league without actually having the money to sign PL-winning players.
I'm sure there was a report soon after he signed up here comparing his Redscouse transfers with ol' laughing boy Fergiescum. Between 1998 up until about 2002 Houllier had spent more.
Perhaps, but that comparison only tells you so much. In 1998 Ferguson already had a squad capable of winning the PL and didn't have to spend much to improve it. GH had a squad that needed massive investment to be capable of challenging.
-
Gray and keys just had a close friend of houlliers on their show and he says GED is desperate to continue in his job at villa but his family are not so keen- his indication was that GED will stay on as manager.
-
I really don't believe he will.
-
I think he wants to but might not be allowed to.
-
DoF role seems to be ideal for him so. I want him at the club, but could be too dodgy to keep him on as manager, health wise.
-
On the Liverpool pre-match thread this article quotes Sid Cowans advising Houllier to miss the game so he doesn't get too worked up but adds "we all expect him 100 per cent to come back (to the dugout next season)"
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2011/05/20/villa-legend-gordon-cowans-advises-gerard-houllier-to-stay-away-from-villa-park-for-liverpool-match-97319-28729475/#ixzz1MtChvJeN
-
Gray and keys just had a close friend of houlliers on their show and he says GED is desperate to continue in his job at villa but his family are not so keen- his indication was that GED will stay on as manager.
Who was this close friend?
If we're being honest the above scenario is quite possible.
-
This person clearly isn't that much of a mate - telling the world about a private conversation - or this is just a way of negotiating a better pay off. Making it look like Villa would be depriving himself of something he wants.
-
I think he wants to but might not be allowed to.
^^ Is on the money.
-
Matt Kendrick has confirmed that GH will not be at the game this sunday. I'd like GH to stay at the club as a director of football but maybe being a manager will be too much for him.
-
GH shouldn't be allowed to be DOF as this will limit our search for a new Manager.
-
Depends who they want though Jimsta. If they already have eyes on a manager that is used tot he DOF system, then it is not an issue.
From all the noise though coming from VP, my money is edging towards GED being back in the hotseat next season.
-
David Moyes not interested in Villa job, according to the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/21/david-moyes-aston-villa-denial?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+theguardian%2Ffootball%2Frss+%28Football%29).
Everton's David Moyes denies interest in moving to Aston Villa
• Moyes happy with his element of control at Goodison
• Says it is inappropriate to be discussing Houllier's position
David Moyes has stated he has no interest in becoming Aston Villa manager should Gérard Houllier leave the club this summer and is content with the control he has been given at Everton.
The Everton manager has been touted frequently as Villa's desired replacement for Houllier, should the Frenchman decide to retire due to health reasons, but he says he has no wish to leave Goodison Park for the Midlands.
"I know nothing about it and they have a really good manager in place who unfortunately is ill at the moment. The last thing he needs to hear is someone talking about his job," said Moyes. "But I'm not interested anyway, so that answers it."
Everton end their inconsistent season at home to Chelsea and, despite approaching another transfer window where he has to sell to buy players, Moyes says he does not envy Carlo Ancelotti's position at Stamford Bridge.
He said: "Mountains of cash and instability are not something I have had in my managerial career. Everton is the opposite. It is really well run. We don't have bundles of cash, we try and make the best of what we have but we have got stability. The situation I am in at the moment is a good one. I have a really good chairman and I am at a really good club.
"I can control the club to an extent and, though I don't like quoting him all the time, it is one of Sir Alex's comments that a manager has to be allowed to control a club and in the main I do. I don't have the funds but we have tried to keep a stable club."
-
I've never thought we'd get moyes. I'm sure these quotes won't stop many still expecting him to arrive though!
-
"But I'm not interested anyway, so that answers it."
With some you'd take in with a pinch of salt, but Moyes strikes me as more of a straight shooter so I think that does end it as far as I'm concerned.
No problem - Rijkaard now please, Randy!
-
I'm increasingly thinking that Houllier will continue as manager, to be honest. Given his illness i'm not sure that's for the best health-wise, but I wouldn't be disappointed from a football perspective. I think he'll get it right next season, if he is given the chance, and brings in the players he wants.
-
i'd be happy to see what he does this summer as well, both in players in and getting his revenge on the trouble makers. I just hope he's up to it as he'll have no excuses next season if there's not an improvement.
-
I don't think keeping GH is going to do much for ST sales somehow, unless Randy is going back him heavily in the transfer market. It would be a risk considering what a pigs ear he's made of his first season.
-
I don't think keeping GH is going to do much for ST sales somehow, unless Randy is going back him heavily in the transfer market. It would be a risk considering what a pigs ear he's made of his first season.
I suppose, but then no more than a risk of bringing in a new manager. If Houllier has either converted the 'trouble-makers' (for want of a better word), or is able to replace them, then he is in a good position upon which to build. I know it's all rumours and hearsay, but there certainly seems to be support for him amongst the players; Delph, Bent, NRC, Downing have all spoken in positive terms about things - and they are the players that, to my mind, matter.
There's a reasonable chance we could finish in the top ten of the league; pig ears aside, that's not an unreasonable finish, all things considered.
-
"But I'm not interested anyway, so that answers it."
No problem - Rijkaard now please, Randy!
Apart from having the extremely good fortune to become Barcelona manager just as Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol were coming through, what exactly has Rijkaard achieved that he would be a suitable choice for us?
I was under the impression he'd been pretty lousy everywhere else he managed.
-
"But I'm not interested anyway, so that answers it."
No problem - Rijkaard now please, Randy!
Apart from having the extremely good fortune to become Barcelona manager just as Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol were coming through, what exactly has Rijkaard achieved that he would be a suitable choice for us?
I was under the impression he'd been pretty lousy everywhere else he managed.
Took Holland to the Euro 2000 semis. He won La Liga in 2004 and 2005 when the likes of Xavi and Iniesta were too young to have the same influence as they do now (I think!). But then would we dismiss everything Gezza won at Liverpool because he had Gerrard and Owen coming through?
Anyway, I just like the idea of him coming in and us going in a different direction.
-
Can someone please change the name of this title from Houllier and McAllister Out! to something more like "who would want Houllier and McAllister out!!" i lot of people do want them out but i would like (health permitted) to see what they could do next year. i really think were going to improve more and the players we are being linked to are much better then the same old crap we usually are.
if I'm in the very few minority i say lets get off their back and give them a crack!!!!
-
I'm not keen on McAllister, but I'd be very happy if Houllier were to stay on as Manager.
-
Can someone please change the name of this title from Houllier and McAllister Out! to something more like "who would want Houllier and McAllister out!!"
To make the thread title more ambiguous, it could be renamed "Houllier and McAllister (in the dug-)out!"
-
Can someone please change the name of this title from Houllier and McAllister Out! to something more like "who would want Houllier and McAllister out!!"
To make the thread title more ambiguous, it could be renamed "Houllier and McAllister (in the dug-)out!"
lol i like that!
-
I want both of them out and I did before the heart scare but seeing as that happened it has to be brought into consideration. I don't know what recuperation times are from what happened to Gezza but I would think someone in the "real world" would probably be looking at a few months off. Months off in football doesn't work. It's a 365 day a year job (even when they're on holiday they're not completely out of reach) so even if he'd been good for us then I'd have my doubts but seeing as he's been crap why oh why would we keep him on. Sack him, retire him asap. Thanks but no thanks, let's move on
-
According to Guillem Balague, Villa want to keep Houllier and reduce the workload. But I'm not sure that's a good idea. Apparently Houllier's style is to work 12-14 hours a day. If he cannot carry on as before (in terms of workload), then I think he should quit.
Obviously, results have been poor, but I don't agree that Houllier has been a disaster. People keep refering to last season's sixth place, ignoring that what MON left behind was basically a good first eleven, but beyond that there were only failed investments (Beye, Sidwell, Davies and Heskey) and promising but not-yet-ready youngsters. Adding that our best and most important player last season was sold and not replaced; that our second best player came back in pre-season unfit and out of sorts; that the likes of Petrov, Friedel and Carew were increasingly past their best, and it's clear that Houllier was dealt a bad hand.
Even if he has made some (big) mistakes, Houllier has also brought the club's training schedule from the stone age and into the 21st century, signed a striker who can score goals and given some of our youngsters hope that they can actually break into the first eleven.
If he is to leave this summer, I hope the most level-headed supporters will remember this as well as his antics at Anfield and the surrender against City in the Cup, and realize that he wasn't all bad.
-
Can someone please change the name of this title from Houllier and McAllister Out! to something more like "who would want Houllier and McAllister out!!" i lot of people do want them out but i would like (health permitted) to see what they could do next year. i really think were going to improve more and the players we are being linked to are much better then the same old crap we usually are.
if I'm in the very few minority i say lets get off their back and give them a crack!!!!
I'd prefer if it was changed to Houllier and McAllister gone!
-
According to Guillem Balague, Villa want to keep Houllier and reduce the workload. But I'm not sure that's a good idea. Apparently Houllier's style is to work 12-14 hours a day. If he cannot carry on as before (in terms of workload), then I think he should quit.
Obviously, results have been poor, but I don't agree that Houllier has been a disaster. People keep refering to last season's sixth place, ignoring that what MON left behind was basically a good first eleven, but beyond that there were only failed investments (Beye, Sidwell, Davies and Heskey) and promising but not-yet-ready youngsters. Adding that our best and most important player last season was sold and not replaced; that our second best player came back in pre-season unfit and out of sorts; that the likes of Petrov, Friedel and Carew were increasingly past their best, and it's clear that Houllier was dealt a bad hand.
Even if he has made some (big) mistakes, Houllier has also brought the club's training schedule from the stone age and into the 21st century, signed a striker who can score goals and given some of our youngsters hope that they can actually break into the first eleven.
If he is to leave this summer, I hope the most level-headed supporters will remember this as well as his antics at Anfield and the surrender against City in the Cup, and realize that he wasn't all bad.
That sums up my thoughts completely, well said.
-
A hugely reliable football insider tells me that Steve McClaren will come in.
-
A hugely reliable football insider tells me that Steve McClaren will come in.
Oh my giddy aunt!
-
Meh
-
Hmm i dunno. Flopped for England and Wolfsburg. Did a good job at Boro and FC Twente. Like Dave said the other day, he probably needs another good season with another club abroad for people to take him seriously again. He'd make a decent assistant manager again though.
-
Mclaren... no thanks. Would rather stick with Houllier.
-
I don't think McClaren is the way to go.
-
A hugely reliable football insider tells me that Steve McClaren will come in.
I hate to say,I have heard this too.Same source said Milner was unhappy at City and was coming back straight swap for Ash
-
If Maclaren comes in, then I bet Houllier would stay as Director of Football or some such. I'm not as averse to that as I probably should be. Did Schuper Schteve work with a DoF at FC Twente? If so, then I can see this happening, quite honestly. It'd certainly please Downing.
-
I'm not keen on McAllister, but I'd be very happy if Houllier were to stay on as Manager.
I concur. Thread title amendment on way.
-
McAllister leaving for McClaren to come in as number two?
Maybe houllier has to do everything and work such long hours as stated above because McAllister is so poor and Houllier had lost faith in him.
McClaren as assistant manager I'd warm to but certainly not as our manager.
-
I'm not keen on McAllister, but I'd be very happy if Houllier were to stay on as Manager.
I concur. Thread title amendment on way.
Legion, I can't believe you changed it! It was meant to be a statement!
I still think that if those two clowns are anywhere near VP next season it's going to be a long and painful year. I still haven't renewed my season ticket and Randy giving his backing to those two eejits could be enough to make me think of everything else I could spend that £500 on.
-
I can change it back if you wish. Or perhaps to something else, considering we are still none the wiser as to what is going on?
-
I'm not keen on McAllister, but I'd be very happy if Houllier were to stay on as Manager.
I concur. Thread title amendment on way.
Legion, I can't believe you changed it! It was meant to be a statement!
I still think that if those two clowns are anywhere near VP next season it's going to be a long and painful year. I still haven't renewed my season ticket and Randy giving his backing to those two eejits could be enough to make me think of everything else I could spend that £500 on.
Tbf, Houllier has had to deal with lots of circumstances this season.
Why not let him start a fresh? Bring in some more players, get rid of the ones he doesn't want, get a good pre-season under his belt and lets see what we can do next season?
I can see the potential with Houllier, it's just whether his health stays in remission.
I don't know about getting rid of him only after one season, give him more time, if he can't make us progress then we should look and re-evaluate perhaps. Don't write someone off after one season.
-
I'm not keen on McAllister, but I'd be very happy if Houllier were to stay on as Manager.
I concur. Thread title amendment on way.
Legion, I can't believe you changed it! It was meant to be a statement!
I still think that if those two clowns are anywhere near VP next season it's going to be a long and painful year. I still haven't renewed my season ticket and Randy giving his backing to those two eejits could be enough to make me think of everything else I could spend that £500 on.
Tbf, Houllier has had to deal with lots of circumstances this season.
Why not let him start a fresh? Bring in some more players, get rid of the ones he doesn't want, get a good pre-season under his belt and lets see what we can do next season?
I can see the potential with Houllier, it's just whether his health stays in remission.
I don't know about getting rid of him only after one season, give him more time, if he can't make us progress then we should look and re-evaluate perhaps. Don't write someone off after one season.
I just think it's too big a risk. In the space of one season we've gone from a team that was consistently top 6 and challenging for top 4 to one that has flirted with relegation for the whole season. In my mind that is a massive backward step. What happens if next year sees another backward step? We will be relegated.
And there's nothing I've seen to suggest next year will be any different. The players are undoubtedly better than 13th in the league yet they haven't performed to the level we know they can. Of course an element of this is down to them but for so many players to all have bad seasons has got to be down to the management team. They don't appear to be able to motivate, I'm not convinced they are tactical geniuses, they haven't blown me away with their transfer dealings. Seriously, where are the positives?
Absolutely, there have been circumstances during this season which have made the job tougher but I don't even think they've done the best in the circumstances.
And don't even get me started on the PR car-crashes we've witnessed this year.
Time to accept the appointment hasn't worked out and move on.
-
I'm not keen on McAllister, but I'd be very happy if Houllier were to stay on as Manager.
I concur. Thread title amendment on way.
Legion, I can't believe you changed it! It was meant to be a statement!
I still think that if those two clowns are anywhere near VP next season it's going to be a long and painful year. I still haven't renewed my season ticket and Randy giving his backing to those two eejits could be enough to make me think of everything else I could spend that £500 on.
Tbf, Houllier has had to deal with lots of circumstances this season.
Why not let him start a fresh? Bring in some more players, get rid of the ones he doesn't want, get a good pre-season under his belt and lets see what we can do next season?
I can see the potential with Houllier, it's just whether his health stays in remission.
I don't know about getting rid of him only after one season, give him more time, if he can't make us progress then we should look and re-evaluate perhaps. Don't write someone off after one season.
I just think it's too big a risk. In the space of one season we've gone from a team that was consistently top 6 and challenging for top 4 to one that has flirted with relegation for the whole season. In my mind that is a massive backward step. What happens if next year sees another backward step? We will be relegated.
And there's nothing I've seen to suggest next year will be any different. The players are undoubtedly better than 13th in the league yet they haven't performed to the level we know they can. Of course an element of this is down to them but for so many players to all have bad seasons has got to be down to the management team. They don't appear to be able to motivate, I'm not convinced they are tactical geniuses, they haven't blown me away with their transfer dealings. Seriously, where are the positives?
Absolutely, there have been circumstances during this season which have made the job tougher but I don't even think they've done the best in the circumstances.
And don't even get me started on the PR car-crashes we've witnessed this year.
Time to accept the appointment hasn't worked out and move on.
You can look at it two ways.
You can look at it in a really negative way saying it's been a waste of a season etc or you can look at it in a positive way saying since we've signed Bent we've improved only losing 3 games.
No-one is denying it's been a disappointing season going from top 6 to bottom 6, but since the signing of Bent you can't deny we've been doing a lot better before we signed Bent.
The problem with Villa fans is that for whatever reason we attract a very negative bunch who don't think outside the box only focusing on the negatives and not the positives. Pretty much most people on here were completely writing ourselves off against Arsenal - we win, the doom and gloom merchants go into hiding. That's just one example.
I will tell you why we've been so poor this season:
Dropped the most points from leading positions
Second most conceded goals from set-pieces
Awful defending in general
Those are the 3 things which have led to a disappointing season. If we can get those issues sorted what makes you think we'll have a same sort of season next season?
No-one seems to have any patience. Yes, it's been a frustrating season and yes at times I've complained about Houllier, but atleast I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and give him time.
Lets see what he can do next season.
It's not that we're a bad team, it's because we haven't been able to defend very well this season. Poor defending has been our downfall this season.
-
According to Guillem Balague, Villa want to keep Houllier and reduce the workload. But I'm not sure that's a good idea. Apparently Houllier's style is to work 12-14 hours a day. If he cannot carry on as before (in terms of workload), then I think he should quit.
Obviously, results have been poor, but I don't agree that Houllier has been a disaster. People keep refering to last season's sixth place, ignoring that what MON left behind was basically a good first eleven, but beyond that there were only failed investments (Beye, Sidwell, Davies and Heskey) and promising but not-yet-ready youngsters. Adding that our best and most important player last season was sold and not replaced; that our second best player came back in pre-season unfit and out of sorts; that the likes of Petrov, Friedel and Carew were increasingly past their best, and it's clear that Houllier was dealt a bad hand.
Even if he has made some (big) mistakes, Houllier has also brought the club's training schedule from the stone age and into the 21st century, signed a striker who can score goals and given some of our youngsters hope that they can actually break into the first eleven.
If he is to leave this summer, I hope the most level-headed supporters will remember this as well as his antics at Anfield and the surrender against City in the Cup, and realize that he wasn't all bad.
A manager lives by his results and his have been shocking. Also you fail to mention his bizarre man management, player selection and tactics. Milner was certainly a loss but he still inherited the best Villa defence in years and collectively and individually they have gone to pieces. There was a bad run of injuries, Dunne particularly and others came back from pre season in a mess, age also caught up with others but being a manager is about managing situations and players and getting the best out the resources at his disposal. Houllier has failed absymally to do this.
The defence Ive already mentioned but Gabby and Carew, 33 goals last season. Gabby only got 5 this term, Carew zero and has left on a free. Then the ridiculous pandering to Ashley Young and the 3 wingers, playing Gabby wide, not playing Reo Coker at Old Trafford. It was just a litany of bad decisions after one another not even taking into account the farcical stunts at Liverpool and City. I can only think the positives of his reign were getting in Walker and Bent. Clark and Albrighton did come through and a few others also got chances. But arguably it was the injury crisis that forced that anyway.
Also Id have taken a stone age training schedule if it would have meant two decent cup runs and a shot at qualifying for the Champions League. He did try to introduce more passing to our side but tactically we were just a mess throughout the season. I always had the sense too that Houllier hadnt the heart to be dealing with players anymore, trying to coax the likes of Stephen Ireland into form just didnt interest him I felt.
I think Houllier has good ideas about the game but as a football manager his day is done. Maybe he could be kept on as a director with no first team interference. Reorganising the club re scouting etc that MON never bothered to but there imo should be no doubt from any Villa supporter that we must get a new manager in asap.
-
Ged has his return appointment at the Q E on 3rd June so we won't know anything til after then I dont think..
-
Clark and Albrighton did come through and a few others also got chances. But arguably it was the injury crisis that forced that anyway.
And wasn't it Kev Mac who started playing them?
-
I'm not keen on McAllister, but I'd be very happy if Houllier were to stay on as Manager.
I concur. Thread title amendment on way.
Legion, I can't believe you changed it! It was meant to be a statement!
I still think that if those two clowns are anywhere near VP next season it's going to be a long and painful year. I still haven't renewed my season ticket and Randy giving his backing to those two eejits could be enough to make me think of everything else I could spend that £500 on.
Tbf, Houllier has had to deal with lots of circumstances this season.
Why not let him start a fresh? Bring in some more players, get rid of the ones he doesn't want, get a good pre-season under his belt and lets see what we can do next season?
I can see the potential with Houllier, it's just whether his health stays in remission.
I don't know about getting rid of him only after one season, give him more time, if he can't make us progress then we should look and re-evaluate perhaps. Don't write someone off after one season.
totally 110% agree with this
-
The problem with Villa fans is that for whatever reason we attract a very negative bunch who don't think outside the box only focusing on the negatives and not the positives.
I would agree with that, considering how miserable people were for the two years previous when we were a good side, but I think people have been unbelievably positive this year bearing in mind how shit it's been.
-
Maclaren and Houllier as Dof football might actually work. IF the villa faithful get behind them both.
-
Sack 'em both. Does anybody seriously believe these two clowns will improve us next year? All they've done is go back to the set-up and tactics that MON used. Where's the progress in that?
Get rid.
-
Whoever is in charge next season is going have a tough job uniting both players and fans. I don't think any of the names touted will meet with universal support and we already know that many are against the current team staying in charge. A poor start and we'll be in for another 9 months of acrimony.
-
Houllier continuing is lunacy.
I'm sure his wife and family feel that. The danger is the sitting tenant, so to speak, will continue in the job perhaps with some Houllier input.
If that happens it confirms the Villa Board and management don't have a footballing clue.
I read some, not all of these gripes, about this season and few seem to remember the state of the squad, how poorly prepared it was and how as a result it ran up a huge list of injuries. I kept hearing all this talk of new stars, yada, yada, yada, and we kept losing, none of them have lasted.
Ged's tough training methods led to some crying off, but enough points, aided by Geds star buy Bent.
Even then Houllier has to go and get hospitalised when results started to work out. The season has been full of disruptions, little or no continuity at any level.
In all honesty avoiding relegation was a well done, achievement
-
Whoever is in charge next season is going have a tough job uniting both players and fans. I don't think any of the names touted will meet with universal support and we already know that many are against the current team staying in charge. A poor start and we'll be in for another 9 months of acrimony.
All the more reason to get the prevarication over and the job done.
Are the Board up to hard decisions I wonder, they certainly do not appear to do quick ones.
-
All they've done is go back to the set-up and tactics that MON used. Where's the progress in that?
Get rid.
LOL!
-
Firstly I object to the sweeping generalization that Villa attracts negative supporters. Stereotypical bollocks of the very worst sort.
As for Gerard Houllier his health should be our first consideration. Common decency demands it. More stress of the kind he experienced when taking on the O'Neill gang would quite probably kill him. He must not allow himself to be put in that position and we must not expect it of him. Retire Gerard. Enjoy your life. Take McAllister with you.
-
if GH work say 14 hours a day and we should reduce it to say 7 hours a day.
A director can reduce his workload - Handling all transfer activity in buying, sellling, wages, bonus.
A good assistant - can deal with media enquiry and overall running of football club
Manager should make decision to buy/sell players, organise and watch coaching, pick team and tactics and set up policies for club and talk to media and watch matches for scouting new players.
2 hours on planning and talking to coaching staff.
3 hours on training ground
2 hours to watch football / talk to media.
-
Houllier continuing is lunacy.
I'm sure his wife and family feel that. The danger is the sitting tenant, so to speak, will continue in the job perhaps with some Houllier input.
If that happens it confirms the Villa Board and management don't have a footballing clue.
I read some, not all of these gripes, about this season and few seem to remember the state of the squad, how poorly prepared it was and how as a result it ran up a huge list of injuries. I kept hearing all this talk of new stars, yada, yada, yada, and we kept losing, none of them have lasted.
Ged's tough training methods led to some crying off, but enough points, aided by Geds star buy Bent.
Even then Houllier has to go and get hospitalised when results started to work out. The season has been full of disruptions, little or no continuity at any level.
In all honesty avoiding relegation was a well done, achievement
You are a star.
Your first 3 sentences make sense but then you crowbar in your O'Neill thing and end up saying Houllier has achieved "a well done, achievement"
-
The problem with Villa fans is that for whatever reason we attract a very negative bunch who don't think outside the box only focusing on the negatives and not the positives.
I would agree with that, considering how miserable people were for the two years previous when we were a good side, but I think people have been unbelievably positive this year bearing in mind how shit it's been.
I think part of that - a small part, probably - is that people were making more allowances for the fact that they expected an iffy season from the day MON walked out.
I think GH has been pretty much disastrous on the whole, although I can recognise a few things he's done well.
One thing I will say is that when you look at some of the things that have happened this season, we've been very unlucky. Even to the point of the manager being rushed into hospital.
-
there are alot of folks on here who do not want houllier to continue as they will look like right pricks, for the vociferous nature that they have called for his head all season, if he succeeds!
i love the 'stereotypical' shout when anyone says'negative' or 'fickle'. Some need to look harder at themselves and ask have they been a bit too quick too judge.
some results have been real good and others real bad but if you cannot see a change of direction and things to be positive on then you are just cutting your nose off.
Bent was houlliers signing! It could be a fruitful legacy with him in charge or not.
-
there are alot of folks on here who do not want houllier to continue as they will look like right pricks, for the vociferous nature that they have called for his head all season, if he succeeds!
i love the 'stereotypical' shout when anyone says'negative' or 'fickle'. Some need to look harder at themselves and ask have they been a bit too quick too judge.
some results have been real good and others real bad but if you cannot see a change of direction and things to be positive on then you are just cutting your nose off.
Bent was houlliers signing! It could be a fruitful legacy with him in charge or not.
Why would anyone on here want Houllier out in case he succeeds just so they don't look stupid.
I think that is a ridiculous statement.
I personally wouldn't give a shit who was manager if he was a success and brought some silverware to Villa Park.
-
there are alot of folks on here who do not want houllier to continue as they will look like right pricks, for the vociferous nature that they have called for his head all season, if he succeeds!
i love the 'stereotypical' shout when anyone says'negative' or 'fickle'. Some need to look harder at themselves and ask have they been a bit too quick too judge.
some results have been real good and others real bad but if you cannot see a change of direction and things to be positive on then you are just cutting your nose off.
Bent was houlliers signing! It could be a fruitful legacy with him in charge or not.
Why would anyone on here want Houllier out in case he succeeds just so they don't look stupid.
I think that is a ridiculous statement.
I personally wouldn't give a shit who was manager if he was a success and brought some silverware to Villa Park.
i dont feel it is a ridiculous statement at all! We have had this season described as bad as the demise of the late 60's and the mcneill days, lots of people being overdramatic as to the state of our plight!
Believe me, there will be those who never accept him.
-
Ged has his return appointment at the Q E on 3rd June so we won't know anything til after then I dont think..
Is his next medical appointment in the public domain?
-
there are alot of folks on here who do not want houllier to continue as they will look like right pricks, for the vociferous nature that they have called for his head all season, if he succeeds!
i love the 'stereotypical' shout when anyone says'negative' or 'fickle'. Some need to look harder at themselves and ask have they been a bit too quick too judge.
some results have been real good and others real bad but if you cannot see a change of direction and things to be positive on then you are just cutting your nose off.
Bent was houlliers signing! It could be a fruitful legacy with him in charge or not.
Why would anyone on here want Houllier out in case he succeeds just so they don't look stupid.
I think that is a ridiculous statement.
I personally wouldn't give a shit who was manager if he was a success and brought some silverware to Villa Park.
i dont feel it is a ridiculous statement at all! We have had this season described as bad as the demise of the late 60's and the mcneill days, lots of people being overdramatic as to the state of our plight!
Believe me, there will be those who never accept him.
With 2 games to go we were still in danger of going down.
Wanting a change of manager with this in mind is not being over dramatic is it ?
-
This idea of reduced work load for Houllier is bunk. There can be no half way house in this game. Coaches have to be ruthless and hungry. They eat drink sleep their job. Can any one imagine any of the top clubs in Europe doing this? and before any one jumps up and says we are not a top european club take a look at stats. We are about 10th best payers.
The only way I see GH staying is to completely move upstairs and we employee a very good young coach. Say someone like the chap who is coaching Braga.
-
Ged has his return appointment at the Q E on 3rd June so we won't know anything til after then I dont think..
Is his next medical appointment in the public domain?
No it's in an hospital!
-
What's that?
-
Ged has his return appointment at the Q E on 3rd June so we won't know anything til after then I dont think..
Is his next medical appointment in the public domain?
No it's in an hospital!
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I meant were details of his appointment in the public domain, ie, had he, the hospital or anyone else made the appointment details public, which in my world view equates to 'public domain'. I don't doubt the physical location of his next appointment is in a hospital.
-
I think it's an Airplane style joke.
"Gerard has got to go back to hospital"
"Hospital? What is it?"
"It's a big building for sick people, but that isn't important right now"
-
I think it's an Airplane style joke.
"Gerard has got to go back to hospital"
"Hospital? What is it?"
"It's a big building for sick people, but that isn't important right now"
Shirley not.
-
I think it's an Airplane style joke.
"Gerard has got to go back to hospital"
"Hospital? What is it?"
"It's a big building for sick people, but that isn't important right now"
Shirley not.
I am serious and don't call me surely.
-
from Mail
Randy Lerner will reluctantly sack Aston Villa Gerard Houllier for the sake of the manager's health.
And Villa's American owner will immediately target Everton boss David Moyes as the man he wants to take over
-
from Mail
Randy Lerner will reluctantly sack Aston Villa Gerard Houllier for the sake of the manager's health.
And Villa's American owner will immediately target Everton boss David Moyes as the man he wants to take over
I'm a bit skeptical on that.
-
I'm now confused after seeing this article (yes, i know, daily star lol):
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/192148/Gerard-Houllier-back-July-7/
Basicially it says Houllier will be back July 7th.
-
I'm not keen on McAllister, but I'd be very happy if Houllier were to stay on as Manager.
Is there any, ANY, evidence that the problem with these two is McAllister, or is just some weird playground justice thing because some of us have decided - despite all the hard facts - that we like Houllier?
-
I've not seen anyone put down one piece of evidence or even a theory as to why it's mcallister's fault, other than that he's not a defensive specialist - but that wouldn't stop us getting a defensive coach in - or that he had a weak record as a manager - but he isn't our manager.
-
The problem with Villa fans is that for whatever reason we attract a very negative bunch who don't think outside the box only focusing on the negatives and not the positives.
I would agree with that, considering how miserable people were for the two years previous when we were a good side, but I think people have been unbelievably positive this year bearing in mind how shit it's been.
I think part of that - a small part, probably - is that people were making more allowances for the fact that they expected an iffy season from the day MON walked out.
I think GH has been pretty much disastrous on the whole, although I can recognise a few things he's done well.
One thing I will say is that when you look at some of the things that have happened this season, we've been very unlucky. Even to the point of the manager being rushed into hospital.
Yes, I said straight away that this season would be a 'gap' year.
-
there are alot of folks on here who do not want houllier to continue as they will look like right pricks, for the vociferous nature that they have called for his head all season, if he succeeds!
i love the 'stereotypical' shout when anyone says'negative' or 'fickle'. Some need to look harder at themselves and ask have they been a bit too quick too judge.
some results have been real good and others real bad but if you cannot see a change of direction and things to be positive on then you are just cutting your nose off.
Bent was houlliers signing! It could be a fruitful legacy with him in charge or not.
With all due respect mate, that's rubbish. I wanted him out because I thought he'd take us down, but even then most of the time I was thinking that I'd like him continue if he kept us up. I've only changed my mind about that because of his health problems mainly, although the Man City cup game did really piss me off.
I've got no desire whatsoever in being proved right if I predict lack of success for Villa, no personal issue with Houllier (or any other manager for that matter - couldn't give a flying fish about 'personality'). I'd have Thatcher managing us if she could advance our cause.
-
Carlo Ancelotti anyone?
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/192150/Claret-Carlo-Ancelotti-/
He looks like he wants to stay in England, bloody get him.
If Randy wants to keep Houllier, Carlo has always worked with a DoF.
-
I understand that Ancelotti has a 12 months no PL clause in his contract but I think that will only be enforced if he was going to likes of Manu and Arsenal etc.
-
I'm a bit skeptical on that.
Surely not?
-
from Mail
Randy Lerner will reluctantly sack Aston Villa Gerard Houllier for the sake of the manager's health.
And Villa's American owner will immediately target Everton boss David Moyes as the man he wants to take over
That is rubbish as I don't think that Randy will EVER sack Houllier if Houllier wants to carry on. Randy is a man full of integrity, therefore if Houllier went it would be a joint decision based on his health issues. This could drag on for ages!
-
from Mail
Randy Lerner will reluctantly sack Aston Villa Gerard Houllier for the sake of the manager's health.
And Villa's American owner will immediately target Everton boss David Moyes as the man he wants to take over
That is rubbish as I don't think that Randy will EVER sack Houllier if Houllier wants to carry on. Randy is a man full of integrity, therefore if Houllier went it would be a joint decision based on his health issues. This could drag on for ages!
It better not, it should be sorted like in the next week. It is very important that Houllier or a new manager has all summer to bring new players and have a full preseason.
We cannot afford another season like this one.
-
I expect that a decision will be announced within the next 7/10 days.
-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1389570/Aston-Villa-set-axe-Gerard-Houllier-David-Moyes.html
-
I really hope that, and cannot see that Houllier can carry on with us. This season has been close to a complete disaster both for him and us. Ancelotti or Moyes would be very welcome.
-
A decision on whether they stop won't be long in coming.
-
Has to go. A disaster of an appointment. Lets not forget we should be pushing on for champions league this season. I just hope he hasn't done long term damage and once he's gone we can get back on course quickly, Liverpool style.
-
I've not seen anyone put down one piece of evidence or even a theory as to why it's mcallister's fault, other than that he's not a defensive specialist - but that wouldn't stop us getting a defensive coach in - or that he had a weak record as a manager - but he isn't our manager.
GH has stated that they're still playing MON's way defensively because they're not sure they can do anything else and they will change it in the summer presumably when they get some players who have a bit more technical ability
-
Lets not forget we should be pushing on for champions league this season.
With the manager leaving five days before the season started, Milner sold, and no investments and barely any pre-season training during the summer, I'm not sure if there were many Villa fans realistically expecting us to push on for CL this season.
-
I've not seen anyone put down one piece of evidence or even a theory as to why it's mcallister's fault, other than that he's not a defensive specialist - but that wouldn't stop us getting a defensive coach in - or that he had a weak record as a manager - but he isn't our manager.
GH has stated that they're still playing MON's way defensively because they're not sure they can do anything else and they will change it in the summer presumably when they get some players who have a bit more technical ability
I think this quote is restricted to set pieces. Mon prefered zonal marking, whereas GH prefers man-to-man marking. I'm not sure if one demands more technical ability than the other. Even so, I think one of GH's biggest mistake this season was not getting a defensive coach in -- that's the area where the trouble and the troublemakers have been.
-
I've not seen anyone put down one piece of evidence or even a theory as to why it's mcallister's fault, other than that he's not a defensive specialist - but that wouldn't stop us getting a defensive coach in - or that he had a weak record as a manager - but he isn't our manager.
GH has stated that they're still playing MON's way defensively because they're not sure they can do anything else and they will change it in the summer presumably when they get some players who have a bit more technical ability
Even so, I think one of GH's biggest mistake this season was not getting a defensive coach in -- that's the area where the trouble and the troublemakers have been.
If that really is the case, it makes you wonder why he did'nt give Carlos more games than he did. He's been the model professional really.
-
I've not seen anyone put down one piece of evidence or even a theory as to why it's mcallister's fault, other than that he's not a defensive specialist - but that wouldn't stop us getting a defensive coach in - or that he had a weak record as a manager - but he isn't our manager.
GH has stated that they're still playing MON's way defensively because they're not sure they can do anything else and they will change it in the summer presumably when they get some players who have a bit more technical ability
I think this quote is restricted to set pieces. Mon prefered zonal marking, whereas GH prefers man-to-man marking. I'm not sure if one demands more technical ability than the other. Even so, I think one of GH's biggest mistake this season was not getting a defensive coach in -- that's the area where the trouble and the troublemakers have been.
well he's does mention conceding too many goals at set pieces but i took it to mean the defensive set-up at a whole as indeed the writer of the article did.
-
Still, I suspect that the reason that we haven't changed from MON style defending is that there's no coach to implement such changes, rather than the technical ability of our defenders.
-
Still, I suspect that the reason that we haven't changed from MON style defending is that there's no coach to implement such changes, rather than the technical ability of our defenders.
Surely a manager with Houllier's many years of experience doesn't need a specialist defensive coach to at least make sure the the defence do the basics right?
-
I see Gary McAllister has said Houllier will 'definitely' be at Villa at the start of next season. I'm pleased.
-
Really?
I think he might be in for a nasty surprise.
-
Sorry - didn't say where it was on. The BBC post-match interview.
-
As Gregnash has pointed out earlier on this thread, McAllister will act as if he and GH are going to stick around forever until they are sacked/resign.
From the noises coming out it seems pretty clear that GH wants to stay, the club wants him to stay (but reduce the workload) health permitting, and his wife wants him to quit. My guess is that the doctors will have the final say on this one.
-
considering the start to the season, the lack of spend the lack of a viable manager for so long, the player aggro, Geds illness finishing 9 th is a disastrous season ??
I ask you some people need a little perspective.
I know Dol finished 6th in his first year but he did so in a fairly injury free year.
I think Ged remaining in charge is daft for him and the club, but I've known 11 th being classed as a brilliant first season by many ;)
-
I think that GH staying might not be a bad thing. Like many people have said, he came in late, no pre season and he has had to deal with a whole raft of injuries and had to play the youth for quite a few games. I like his philosophy and he will bring the youth through and develop them. Having looked at the table, we were only 10 point behind finishing 6th (joint on points anyway) with liverpool. had we beaten the likes of wolves, wigan and stoke at home, and maybe nicking a winner against the baggies at their place, we would have taken 6th. the fact we have beaten arsenal and liverpool in the last 2 games shows we still have it and can challenege again next season with a few additions.
-
I've not seen anyone put down one piece of evidence or even a theory as to why it's mcallister's fault, other than that he's not a defensive specialist - but that wouldn't stop us getting a defensive coach in - or that he had a weak record as a manager - but he isn't our manager.
GH has stated that they're still playing MON's way defensively because they're not sure they can do anything else and they will change it in the summer presumably when they get some players who have a bit more technical ability
But obviously that's bullshit.
-
Still, I suspect that the reason that we haven't changed from MON style defending is that there's no coach to implement such changes, rather than the technical ability of our defenders.
http://www.sundaymercury.net/midlands-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-fc-news/2011/02/20/martin-laursen-backs-aston-villa-defenders-to-come-good-66331-28198917/
-
considering the start to the season, the lack of spend the lack of a viable manager for so long, the player aggro, Geds illness finishing 9 th is a disastrous season ??
I ask you some people need a little perspective.
I know Dol finished 6th in his first year but he did so in a fairly injury free year.
I think Ged remaining in charge is daft for him and the club, but I've known 11 th being classed as a brilliant first season by many ;)
Where we finish and whether that is a good or bad outcome is totally dependent on the players we have to choose from. When I look at the squad we have then it simply is not the 9th best in the league - it's much better than that. Now, I know the injuries have had a bearing and don't intend to get into the debate about how much leeway we should give Gezza in appreciation of that over the final leageu placing, but I would agree with your first point that after everything that's happened 9th isn't a disaster.
-
Still, I suspect that the reason that we haven't changed from MON style defending is that there's no coach to implement such changes, rather than the technical ability of our defenders.
Seriously, why do you think that we haven't changed? Do you go to the games? If so, do you not believe the evidence of your own eyes? Do you think Martin Laursen was lying when he was commenting about the obvious change? Or perhaps you think that he doesn't know much about defending?
My other problem with it is we weren't conceding many set piece goals under MON and the zonal marking system, so why change it?
-
Still, I suspect that the reason that we haven't changed from MON style defending is that there's no coach to implement such changes, rather than the technical ability of our defenders.
Seriously, why do you think that we haven't changed? Do you go to the games? If so, do you not believe the evidence of your own eyes? Do you think Martin Laursen was lying when he was commenting about the obvious change? Or perhaps you think that he doesn't know much about defending?
My other problem with it is we weren't conceding many set piece goals under MON and the zonal marking system, so why change it?
I agree, but what amazes me is that some people seem to think we haven't.
God knows why.
-
Still, I suspect that the reason that we haven't changed from MON style defending is that there's no coach to implement such changes, rather than the technical ability of our defenders.
Seriously, why do you think that we haven't changed? Do you go to the games? If so, do you not believe the evidence of your own eyes? Do you think Martin Laursen was lying when he was commenting about the obvious change? Or perhaps you think that he doesn't know much about defending?
My other problem with it is we weren't conceding many set piece goals under MON and the zonal marking system, so why change it?
I agree, but what amazes me is that some people seem to think we haven't.
God knows why.
I see you feel strongly about this, so I'm sorry if I've upset you. Obviously we don't defend set-pieces like we did last season, so my comment about MON style defending was sloppy. However, it is clear (from comments and our defensive displays) that the management hasn't been able to implement changes like they've wanted to (including defensive set-pieces) and I believe that may be due to the lack of a specialist defensive coach.
-
Still, I suspect that the reason that we haven't changed from MON style defending is that there's no coach to implement such changes, rather than the technical ability of our defenders.
Seriously, why do you think that we haven't changed? Do you go to the games? If so, do you not believe the evidence of your own eyes? Do you think Martin Laursen was lying when he was commenting about the obvious change? Or perhaps you think that he doesn't know much about defending?
My other problem with it is we weren't conceding many set piece goals under MON and the zonal marking system, so why change it?
I agree, but what amazes me is that some people seem to think we haven't.
God knows why.
I see you feel strongly about this, so I'm sorry if I've upset you. Obviously we don't defend set-pieces like we did last season, so my comment about MON style defending was sloppy. However, it is clear (from comments and our defensive displays) that the management hasn't been able to implement changes like they've wanted to (including defensive set-pieces) and I believe that may be due to the lack of a specialist defensive coach.
ah but Percy believes that's bullshit made up by GMAc and GH to shift blame on the godhead. Just like no doubt he still believes Cahil wanted to leave despite the player himself saying he's been trying to prove MON wrong since he was forced out. They're like those fanatical japanese soldiers who don't realise the war is over even though it finished 9months ago.
-
Still, I suspect that the reason that we haven't changed from MON style defending is that there's no coach to implement such changes, rather than the technical ability of our defenders.
Seriously, why do you think that we haven't changed? Do you go to the games? If so, do you not believe the evidence of your own eyes? Do you think Martin Laursen was lying when he was commenting about the obvious change? Or perhaps you think that he doesn't know much about defending?
My other problem with it is we weren't conceding many set piece goals under MON and the zonal marking system, so why change it?
I agree, but what amazes me is that some people seem to think we haven't.
God knows why.
I see you feel strongly about this, so I'm sorry if I've upset you. Obviously we don't defend set-pieces like we did last season, so my comment about MON style defending was sloppy. However, it is clear (from comments and our defensive displays) that the management hasn't been able to implement changes like they've wanted to (including defensive set-pieces) and I believe that may be due to the lack of a specialist defensive coach.
ah but Percy believes that's bullshit made up by GMAc and GH to shift blame on the godhead. Just like no doubt he still believes Cahil wanted to leave despite the player himself saying he's been trying to prove MON wrong since he was forced out. They're like those fanatical japanese soldiers who don't realise the war is over even though it finished 9months ago.
Since you plucked up the courage to come back on the site I don't think there's a day gone by where you haven't posted about MON and yet you reckon it is others who are obsessed.
-
i think the immense damage he's done is worthy of discussion seeing as its affected us all season Chris, especially as some take the view that its nothing to do with him.
-
I think if I was Gez I'd say "I took over at an awkward time, had some very trying circumstances, and we still finished in a reasonable position. I've brought you the best striker in the country, a couple more good players for next season and given a load of youngsters a chance. I'm off now - give me a shout if there's anything else I can do and good luck."
-
I think if I was Gez I'd say "I took over at an awkward time, had some very trying circumstances, and we still finished in a reasonable position. I've brought you the best striker in the country, a couple more good players for next season and given a load of youngsters a chance. I'm off now - give me a shout if there's anything else I can do and good luck."
I think that sums the situation up very well .......
-
It does, but it would be a very big man to walk away from the millions of pounds he would be sacrificing.
Not an easy decision to make, even for someone with his health.
-
Does he really need the money? Especially when he could be close to having another fatal heart attack?
-
It does, but it would be a very big man to walk away from the millions of pounds he would be sacrificing.
Not an easy decision to make, even for someone with his health.
If he's leaves on medical grounds I'm sure it'll be 'mutual consent' and Randy will give him a golden handshake!
-
Another fatal heart attack? Fuck me, he is more talented than I thought.
-
I think if I was Gez I'd say "I took over at an awkward time, had some very trying circumstances, and we still finished in a reasonable position. I've brought you the best striker in the country, a couple more good players for next season and given a load of youngsters a chance. I'm off now - give me a shout if there's anything else I can do and good luck."
Sums it up quite well.
We were only ever a couple of good results away from a decent league position, it's been that kind of season, and we were never going down, of that I was absolutely sure as soon as Mr Bent strolled through the door.
-
i worried about us...
bent was an inspired signing, even if he was a fully known player and has save our season...
i personally, am shocked that we finished 9th...
but with some of the youngsters proving that they can be good enough for us, and with us dropping more points from winning positions than anyone else, if we can tighten up defensively, then we have an opportunity to progress, whoever is the manager... (amazing to know that if we had kept the leads in the games we dropped points, we would be second in the table! fine lines my villa brothers, fine lines...)
-
but with some of the youngsters proving that they can be good enough for us
I agree with this almost instinctively, yet when you look back at it the worst period of the season was when he were playing the kids the most, which asks the question are they good enough?
I think they have a big step up next year to prove they can not only play at PL level, but also WIN at PL level.
-
The odd thing being that they usually looked quite good whilst losing whereas so many of our seniors looked wank whilst getting some slightly less bad results.
That suggests it is more a mentality than a talent issue so probably easier to cure. Probably the difference between the ethos of reserve team and first team football.
-
That is the value of experience. The reason the youngsters performed without bringing results is because they have no experience of doing so at such a high level. The key is to find a mix and allow them to develop without the club being totally dependent on their performances, as we were earlier on in the season.
-
I do think mixing them with experienced players is the key. A central midfield with Bannan and Clark is always going to struggle.
-
I think if I was Gez I'd say "I took over at an awkward time, had some very trying circumstances, and we still finished in a reasonable position. I've brought you the best striker in the country, a couple more good players for next season and given a load of youngsters a chance. I'm off now - give me a shout if there's anything else I can do and good luck."
That would be the ideal scenario, but it seems GH is desperate to carry on. Not sure that it's any particular love for the club (how could you cultivate that in such a short time, particularly with the stick he's received?) that drives him. More likely he wants to prove a few people wrong.
-
but with some of the youngsters proving that they can be good enough for us
I agree with this almost instinctively, yet when you look back at it the worst period of the season was when he were playing the kids the most, which asks the question are they good enough?
I think they have a big step up next year to prove they can not only play at PL level, but also WIN at PL level.
i think considering we had to play with the likes of herd and hogg, who i dont consider good enough, along with some of the better players like clark (out of position), bannon, albrighton and delfouneso, all at once at times, its difficult for them to get good results...
clark and albrighton have definately proven their worth, and i think delfouneso and to a lesser extent, bannon have too...
but even if just two of those 'make it', will be excellent news out of that particular batch...
-
I think if I was Gez I'd say "I took over at an awkward time, had some very trying circumstances, and we still finished in a reasonable position. I've brought you the best striker in the country, a couple more good players for next season and given a load of youngsters a chance. I'm off now - give me a shout if there's anything else I can do and good luck."
I can't help thinking the final league position has papered over the cracks somewhat and made the season not look as bad as it actually was at times. Think back to Wigan, Wolves and Sunderland at home. Albion, Blackburn, Man City, Liverpool away and the totally unneccessary giving up of the F.A Cup and his reasons for it afterwards.
He (and Randy) did bloody well to bring in Bent and thank god they did. Makoun looks like he could be a very good player and Walker was better than anyone expected him to be. Like i've said before i think, for such an experienced manager, he made harder work of it than he should have.
-
no one is disputing we have cracks to fill. However, how big must the cracks be at other clubs if despite all the things we went through we were still able to finish above a good number of them? There's an obvious defensive issue to be resolved, and one with Ash going. But beyond that there are a lot of things to be optimistic about at the club going into next year.
-
We improved after Houllier's illness as McAllister started picking a settled side which is something Houllier will never do as he is obsessed with rotation which is fine when you're in the top 4 but totally self indulgent and self defeating when you're in the bottom half of the table.
If Houllier comes back we can look forward to another season of mediocrity and inconsistency.
-
Still, I suspect that the reason that we haven't changed from MON style defending is that there's no coach to implement such changes, rather than the technical ability of our defenders.
Seriously, why do you think that we haven't changed? Do you go to the games? If so, do you not believe the evidence of your own eyes? Do you think Martin Laursen was lying when he was commenting about the obvious change? Or perhaps you think that he doesn't know much about defending?
My other problem with it is we weren't conceding many set piece goals under MON and the zonal marking system, so why change it?
I agree, but what amazes me is that some people seem to think we haven't.
God knows why.
I see you feel strongly about this, so I'm sorry if I've upset you. Obviously we don't defend set-pieces like we did last season, so my comment about MON style defending was sloppy. However, it is clear (from comments and our defensive displays) that the management hasn't been able to implement changes like they've wanted to (including defensive set-pieces) and I believe that may be due to the lack of a specialist defensive coach.
ah but Percy believes that's bullshit made up by GMAc and GH to shift blame on the godhead. Just like no doubt he still believes Cahil wanted to leave despite the player himself saying he's been trying to prove MON wrong since he was forced out. They're like those fanatical japanese soldiers who don't realise the war is over even though it finished 9months ago.
So you think Percy is wrong?
-
When did Houllier have a fit squad to rotate with then? Have I missed this? Its not impossible mind. I woke up this morning wearing my neighbours recycling box for pants after yesterdays fun.
-
We improved after Houllier's illness as McAllister started picking a settled side which is something Houllier will never do as he is obsessed with rotation which is fine when you're in the top 4 but totally self indulgent and self defeating when you're in the bottom half of the table.
If Houllier comes back we can look forward to another season of mediocrity and inconsistency.
That's not true. Results dipped initially after Houllier went into hospital but picked up for the last two games. The facts are, as I have posted on another thread, that since we signed Bent we have picked up 26 points from16 games which is the equivalent of 62 over 38.
-
We improved after Houllier's illness as McAllister started picking a settled side which is something Houllier will never do as he is obsessed with rotation which is fine when you're in the top 4 but totally self indulgent and self defeating when you're in the bottom half of the table.
If Houllier comes back we can look forward to another season of mediocrity and inconsistency.
Yet those two final results came after McAllister made the decision to change the team and tactics.
-
I hope GH makes a full recovery but it is pretty bloody obvious that his health can not take the pressure and intensity of a full time premiership manager. Even if he wants to, we shouldn't let him continue because it really isn't worth it. He needs to enjoy the rest of his life not die on the touchline.
Selfishly, we need to act soon, this is a massive summer for us with several players out of contract or coming into their final year of their contracts. We need new players in early so that they can have a full pre-season training.
-
When did Houllier have a fit squad to rotate with then? Have I missed this? Its not impossible mind. I woke up this morning wearing my neighbours recycling box for pants after yesterdays fun.
the wolves game when he picked chris herd to play centre half of course!
-
How's about Carlos Queiroz?
Is considered a good coach, but not great manager. So could work well with Houllier.
-
Still, I suspect that the reason that we haven't changed from MON style defending is that there's no coach to implement such changes, rather than the technical ability of our defenders.
Seriously, why do you think that we haven't changed? Do you go to the games? If so, do you not believe the evidence of your own eyes? Do you think Martin Laursen was lying when he was commenting about the obvious change? Or perhaps you think that he doesn't know much about defending?
My other problem with it is we weren't conceding many set piece goals under MON and the zonal marking system, so why change it?
I agree, but what amazes me is that some people seem to think we haven't.
God knows why.
I see you feel strongly about this, so I'm sorry if I've upset you. Obviously we don't defend set-pieces like we did last season, so my comment about MON style defending was sloppy. However, it is clear (from comments and our defensive displays) that the management hasn't been able to implement changes like they've wanted to (including defensive set-pieces) and I believe that may be due to the lack of a specialist defensive coach.
ah but Percy believes that's bullshit made up by GMAc and GH to shift blame on the godhead. Just like no doubt he still believes Cahil wanted to leave despite the player himself saying he's been trying to prove MON wrong since he was forced out. They're like those fanatical japanese soldiers who don't realise the war is over even though it finished 9months ago.
For goodness sake greg, when is it going to sink in that I couldn't give a shit about any present or ex-employees of Aston Villa who are/were paid handsomely by us and Randy to do a job? The most I ever thought of him was that he was doing a good one. You, on the other hand, thought he was doing a bad one, and that's fine, but you have seemingly allowed this to spill over into a lingering, bitter resentment.
Now, any chance you can tell me how our defending under this regime is the same as it was under the last one?
-
Give it up perc. He's not coming back. evoh.
-
I keep telling you mate, I couldn't give a shit. But seeing as you can't seem to grasp something that simple, it's probably a bit much expecting you to explain how this season's defence is the same as last season's? Still, please try.
-
Watch out, Greg.
He's setting a zonal marking trap, and you've got one foot already in it.
-
I don't really know what to say to you percy. I suggest you form one of those clubs like the bereft celtic fanatics did and toast his memory every 4th August
-
I don't really know what to say to you percy.
Well, you could try answering the question instead of avoiding it because you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.
How is the defending the same under this regime as the last one?
-
yep, its me, GH and GaryMac against your opinion. Perhaps you'd like to list your coaching qualifications?
Sorry but your arguement seems to revolve around "its not the same because it let in less goals last season" which is as daft as claiming MON had changed the defensive system each season because the goals against total was different
-
yep, its me, GH and GaryMac against your opinion. Perhaps you'd like to list your coaching qualifications?
GH and Gmac know it's changed, they're just not being totally honest about it.
I think you'll find that zonal coverage and man-marking being different is a fact, not an opinion. Even though it's your opinion that they're the same.
-
well thanks for that insight into the inner circles of the current manager's coaching idea's As an ITK when did they tell you they were lying to everyone?
-
Sorry but your arguement seems to revolve around "its not the same because it let in less goals last season" which is as daft as claiming MON had changed the defensive system each season because the goals against total was different
Not at all. My argument is that last season we used zonal coverage, this season we man-mark. Last year we had an out-and-out stopper at right-back, this year the full-backs have been encouraged to attack more. Last year was more 'no-nonsense, safety first', this year they have been encouraged to be more careful with possession. I'm not arguing better or worse - just different. You're saying it's the same, so what is your argument based on?
Any chance we can discuss football, rather than me discussing football, and you constantly being on the wind-up?
-
marking isn't your defensive style. Maybe i've missed it but i haven't noticed Dunne or Collins spraying passes out all over the pitch or attempting to, but doing it crap. they've just been as they always have. But crapper
-
marking isn't your defensive style. Maybe i've missed it but i haven't noticed Dunne or Collins spraying passes out all over the pitch or attempting to, but doing it crap. they've just been as they always have. But crapper
They were a lot better last season than this.
Collins seems to have developed (lately) a fucking infuriating habit of sticking his arm up and stopping practically when he reckons he's a chance of offside. I know all defenders do this, but he seems to do it all the time. Dunne has been better these last few games, but still scares me to death.
I think we need to move them on this summer, especially given the events off the pitch this year.
Unfortunately, our best centre half is also likely to be moved on, which is very annoying indeed.
-
Incidentally, I find it hard to believe Collins has been asked to keep possession more often this season - if he has, he's certainly ignored the request, as he seems to blindly swing his leg at the ball even more often than he used to.
-
If Houllier can't stay on as manager for next season because of his health, what do people think about Martinez? He did the buisness for Wigan when many thought they'd go down and is a young manager. I know a couple of Villa fans who wouldn't mind Martinez.
-
aye. while i can understand changing from zonal marking to man marking would confuse a thick person at the end of the day its only who covers who and in what area. it doesn't cover what you do when/if you tackle and win the ball and then what you do with it. And when Davies used to go walkies to the left of Luke young, well if thats a zonal system...there's something wrong with the zones.
-
Whilst I know odds mean next to nothing, and just highlight money placed on our next manager Skybet has Benitez and Hughes runaway favourites pretty much. McClaren behind at 7/1.
-
marking isn't your defensive style. Maybe i've missed it but i haven't noticed Dunne or Collins spraying passes out all over the pitch or attempting to, but doing it crap. they've just been as they always have. But crapper
GH first blamed zonal coverage when asked specifically about the number of goals we were letting in from set-pieces. Honestly Greg, I couldn't care less if it was O'Neill or Trevor Fucking Francis who had us using the zonal system to defend set-pieces, the fact is it was effective. A pragmatic manager would have persevered with it, but GH must be dogmatic in his belief in man-marking. That's fine, he's on millions of pounds and under loads of stress to make those decisions. But to here him blame a system that he doesn't use is an insult to our intelligence really.
What you're talking about is Dunne and Collins' crap use of the ball constructively, I'm on about how they defend our goal, which is patently not the same as it was last season.
-
aye. while i can understand changing from zonal marking to man marking would confuse a thick person at the end of the day its only who covers who and in what area. it doesn't cover what you do when/if you tackle and win the ball and then what you do with it. And when Davies used to go walkies to the left of Luke young, well if thats a zonal system...there's something wrong with the zones.
Zonal coverage has nothing to do with open play. Explained well by Norm Crandles here:
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=42616.105
Not having a go here, but you can ask Norm for his coaching qualifications if you like! *wink*
-
If Houllier can't stay on as manager for next season because of his health, what do people think about Martinez? He did the buisness for Wigan when many thought they'd go down and is a young manager. I know a couple of Villa fans who wouldn't mind Martinez.
One to watch.
But not ready for a gig as big as the Villa. Yet.
-
aye. while i can understand changing from zonal marking to man marking would confuse a thick person at the end of the day its only who covers who and in what area. it doesn't cover what you do when/if you tackle and win the ball and then what you do with it. And when Davies used to go walkies to the left of Luke young, well if thats a zonal system...there's something wrong with the zones.
Zonal coverage has nothing to do with open play. Explained well by Norm Crandles here:
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=42616.105
Not having a go here, but you can ask Norm for his coaching qualifications if you like! *wink*
I'm still got getting what you're trying to say percy. Norm candles seems to be talking about set pieces or corners only. Is that it? are all our problems defending down to changing the way we defend set pieces? what about the other 85 minutes?
-
aye. while i can understand changing from zonal marking to man marking would confuse a thick person at the end of the day its only who covers who and in what area. it doesn't cover what you do when/if you tackle and win the ball and then what you do with it. And when Davies used to go walkies to the left of Luke young, well if thats a zonal system...there's something wrong with the zones.
Zonal coverage has nothing to do with open play. Explained well by Norm Crandles here:
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=42616.105
Not having a go here, but you can ask Norm for his coaching qualifications if you like! *wink*
I'm still got getting what you're trying to say percy. Norm candles seems to be talking about set pieces or corners only. Is that it? are all our problems defending down to changing the way we defend set pieces? what about the other 85 minutes?
Why have you got yourself involved in a prolonged argument about zonal defence when you don't know what it is?
-
aye. while i can understand changing from zonal marking to man marking would confuse a thick person at the end of the day its only who covers who and in what area. it doesn't cover what you do when/if you tackle and win the ball and then what you do with it. And when Davies used to go walkies to the left of Luke young, well if thats a zonal system...there's something wrong with the zones.
Zonal coverage has nothing to do with open play. Explained well by Norm Crandles here:
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=42616.105
Not having a go here, but you can ask Norm for his coaching qualifications if you like! *wink*
I'm still got getting what you're trying to say percy. Norm candles seems to be talking about set pieces or corners only. Is that it? are all our problems defending down to changing the way we defend set pieces? what about the other 85 minutes?
Why have you got yourself involved in a prolonged argument about zonal defence when you don't know what it is?
Come on VillaDawg, this is Greg who once famously claimed Paul Scholes could'nt tackle.
-
aye. while i can understand changing from zonal marking to man marking would confuse a thick person at the end of the day its only who covers who and in what area. it doesn't cover what you do when/if you tackle and win the ball and then what you do with it. And when Davies used to go walkies to the left of Luke young, well if thats a zonal system...there's something wrong with the zones.
Zonal coverage has nothing to do with open play. Explained well by Norm Crandles here:
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=42616.105
Not having a go here, but you can ask Norm for his coaching qualifications if you like! *wink*
I'm still got getting what you're trying to say percy. Norm candles seems to be talking about set pieces or corners only. Is that it? are all our problems defending down to changing the way we defend set pieces? what about the other 85 minutes?
Why have you got yourself involved in a prolonged argument about zonal defence when you don't know what it is?
you should read back to the start of the conversation and break the habit of a lifetime instead of coming in half-assed as usual.. Percy reckons the whole defensive system has changed. Me, GH, and GMac say no. Apparently how we defend corners is the whole defensive system according to percy's link
-
aye. while i can understand changing from zonal marking to man marking would confuse a thick person at the end of the day its only who covers who and in what area. it doesn't cover what you do when/if you tackle and win the ball and then what you do with it. And when Davies used to go walkies to the left of Luke young, well if thats a zonal system...there's something wrong with the zones.
Zonal coverage has nothing to do with open play. Explained well by Norm Crandles here:
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=42616.105
Not having a go here, but you can ask Norm for his coaching qualifications if you like! *wink*
I'm still got getting what you're trying to say percy. Norm candles seems to be talking about set pieces or corners only. Is that it? are all our problems defending down to changing the way we defend set pieces? what about the other 85 minutes?
Why have you got yourself involved in a prolonged argument about zonal defence when you don't know what it is?
Come on VillaDawg, this is Greg who once famously claimed Paul Scholes could'nt tackle.
well its not as funny as thinking the term j'ourneyman footballer' relates to the number of clubs he's played for *winky*
-
aye. while i can understand changing from zonal marking to man marking would confuse a thick person at the end of the day its only who covers who and in what area. it doesn't cover what you do when/if you tackle and win the ball and then what you do with it. And when Davies used to go walkies to the left of Luke young, well if thats a zonal system...there's something wrong with the zones.
Zonal coverage has nothing to do with open play. Explained well by Norm Crandles here:
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=42616.105
Not having a go here, but you can ask Norm for his coaching qualifications if you like! *wink*
I'm still got getting what you're trying to say percy. Norm candles seems to be talking about set pieces or corners only. Is that it? are all our problems defending down to changing the way we defend set pieces? what about the other 85 minutes?
Why have you got yourself involved in a prolonged argument about zonal defence when you don't know what it is?
you should read back to the start of the conversation and break the habit of a lifetime instead of coming in half-assed as usual.. Percy reckons the whole defensive system has changed. Me, GH, and GMac say no. Apparently how we defend corners is the whole defensive system according to percy's link
Dials 999
Operator: "Emergency, which service do you require"
Gregnash: "The obfuscation squad and please hurry"
-
i don't know what your point is Villadawg apart from trying to hide you've got the wrong end of the stick as usual. Maybe you can supply some made-up stats again to prove that how you mark at corners is all that matters when defending
-
aye. while i can understand changing from zonal marking to man marking would confuse a thick person at the end of the day its only who covers who and in what area. it doesn't cover what you do when/if you tackle and win the ball and then what you do with it. And when Davies used to go walkies to the left of Luke young, well if thats a zonal system...there's something wrong with the zones.
Zonal coverage has nothing to do with open play. Explained well by Norm Crandles here:
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=42616.105
Not having a go here, but you can ask Norm for his coaching qualifications if you like! *wink*
I'm still got getting what you're trying to say percy. Norm candles seems to be talking about set pieces or corners only. Is that it? are all our problems defending down to changing the way we defend set pieces? what about the other 85 minutes?
Why have you got yourself involved in a prolonged argument about zonal defence when you don't know what it is?
Come on VillaDawg, this is Greg who once famously claimed Paul Scholes could'nt tackle.
well its not as funny as thinking the term j'ourneyman footballer' relates to the number of clubs he's played for *winky*
In Association Football terms, that's exactly what it means, unless someone wants to correct me.
-
they did at the time. a journeyman is someone adequate in their trade but nowt special. i.e. Zat Knight, not Maradona who's had a lot clubs.
-
it usually means both... someone average in skill who has had lots of clubs...
like steve claridge..
although, its not an exact science...
-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1124722/Have-boots-travel-Footballs-journeymen.html
Have a read Greg.
-
Right...some bird who works for the mail then.....have a look at a dictionary definition clamps
1. One who has fully served an apprenticeship in a trade or craft and is a qualified worker in another's employ.
2.An experienced and competent but undistinguished worker.
-
If I can just move away from the pedantic argument and back to the general question of our defending? Taking the idea of systems away for a minute, there's one of two personnel issues that have to be taken into account:-
1. Gezza didn't like Cuellar at RB, due to limted passing and attacking ability, but we then lost that '3rd centre half' to defend set pieces.
2. Playing one upfront meant no Heskey or Carew, who also helped in this regard. I don't think it was coincidence that Ivanhoe was put back in at home to Stoke.
3. From open play our back 4 was exposed without NRC and/or Petrov in the midfield to offer some protection. The good run at the end of the season with them back in together is again not coincidence.
-
Right...some bird who works for the mail then.....
That "bird" appears to understand Zonal defence.
"At Fulham he introduced a basketball defensive system, called a 'zonal trap', where his team moved as a unit when protecting their goal. When he joined Inter Milan in 1995 he asked Italian World Cup winner Giuseppe Bergomi, who had always marked man-to-man, to mark zonally. The team switched from a libero system to a back four and Hodgson asked Bergomi to play at right back.
After taking over at Hamstad in 1976, his first management role, Hodgson and his great friend Bob Houghton revolutionised Swedish football. They abandoned man-to-man marking all over the field in favour of a zonal approach. It is no wonder Hodgson tends to bristle at the suggestion he is an old-fashioned manager."
and a world cup winning centre-half at right back. What was he thinking eh? ;-)
-
Right...some bird who works for the mail then.....
That "bird" appears to understand Zonal defence.
"At Fulham he introduced a basketball defensive system, called a 'zonal trap', where his team moved as a unit when protecting their goal. When he joined Inter Milan in 1995 he asked Italian World Cup winner Giuseppe Bergomi, who had always marked man-to-man, to mark zonally. The team switched from a libero system to a back four and Hodgson asked Bergomi to play at right back.
After taking over at Hamstad in 1976, his first management role, Hodgson and his great friend Bob Houghton revolutionised Swedish football. They abandoned man-to-man marking all over the field in favour of a zonal approach. It is no wonder Hodgson tends to bristle at the suggestion he is an old-fashioned manager."
and a world cup winning centre-half at right back. What was he thinking eh? ;-)
you really aren't getting this are you?
read norm candles definition of zonal marking with percy's link. He's talking about set pieces unless you're claming that everytime the opposition got the ball into our half during MON's time, two of our defenders ran straight to the goalmouth while the rest totally ignored the opposition
-
There's a difference between zonal marking in-game and zonal marking at set-pieces. What Hodgson did in Sweden and Italy (more so Sweden, Lindholm and Sacchi did it in Italy) was to get rid of in-game man-to-man marking and have the whole team defend more with their shape than with individual confrontations. Every uses zonal now - the only recent time anyone didn't really was Greece in 2004, and they won because everyone had forgotten how to solve that problem. Zonal and man-to-man at set-pieces is different, and to be honest they're both fine if you execute them well. Most teams use a combination of both anyway, covering key zones and key opposition players.
-
"Journeyman" gets used by people in football to describe players who have been around a bit, but they're still getting the meaning wrong.
Incidentally, whilst I found Pires to be largely excruciating to watch (largely, not entirely, note), and think there should be no question of him staying here, I entirely understand why GH got him in.
Look back at some of our injury problems in midfield. We started against Manchester United with Barry Bannan and Jonathon Hogg in the centre, FFS.
We were desperately, desperately short of bodies in the centre, and the transfer window was closed. The thinking here was exactly the same as that employed when MON got Didier Agathe in. That didn't work, either, but anyone who can't comprehend why we made those moves needs to have a think about the circumstances at the time. Oh, and the same goes for Chris Sutton, too.
The fact Barry Bannan was sent on loan to Leeds is totally irrelevant - Pires joined in December. Bannan went to Leeds in March.
-
aye. while i can understand changing from zonal marking to man marking would confuse a thick person at the end of the day its only who covers who and in what area. it doesn't cover what you do when/if you tackle and win the ball and then what you do with it. And when Davies used to go walkies to the left of Luke young, well if thats a zonal system...there's something wrong with the zones.
Zonal coverage has nothing to do with open play. Explained well by Norm Crandles here:
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=42616.105
Not having a go here, but you can ask Norm for his coaching qualifications if you like! *wink*
I'm still got getting what you're trying to say percy. Norm candles seems to be talking about set pieces or corners only. Is that it? are all our problems defending down to changing the way we defend set pieces? what about the other 85 minutes?
GH was talking about defending set-pieces when he said the way we defend them hasn't changed. I'm talking about defending set-pieces when I point out the fact that it has.
How we defend our penalty area, six-yard box and goal against set-pieces is probably the most fundamental aspect of not conceding goals. For instance, in the 'other 85 minutes' that you talk about, we'd maybe have possession for half of it, so our goal would not be under direct threat (that's part of the reason why dominating possession is so important to managers, GH included). Then there's all the time that the opposition have the ball but are not posing a direct threat. At a set-piece you sometimes have 19 out of 22 players in the penalty box, the way you defend is absolutely vital. It may well be only five minutes in some games, although I think it's usually considerably more, but is often when the most important events in the match take place.
As well as this absolutely fundamental change, there is the change in personnel (with former regulars Cuellar and Warnock having little or no chance of a game), and the change in emphasis on the role of the full-backs, who are now encouraged to get forward, rather than undertake a more conservative, safety-first role, as was the case last season.
Obviously I think we'd all prefer last season's goals against column, but I'm really not trying to argue about one way being better than the other. I'm just pointing out that, with different players who have different strengths and weaknesses and have been instructed to do different things, what a load of bollocks it is to say that nothing's changed.
-
I agree, Paulie - Pires was the right decision at the time as inaction would have been worse.
-
i don't know what your point is Villadawg apart from trying to hide you've got the wrong end of the stick as usual. Maybe you can supply some made-up stats again to prove that how you mark at corners is all that matters when defending
An important thing to remember here is that our defending at set-pieces was what GH was talking about when he said 'nothing's changed'.
-
i still wouldn't say we've changed out entire defensive system percy, maybe the aspect of set peices to a degree but the rest....nah. Way i see it and this is a simplification, you've got three cogs. Last season the ball was hoofed from the defensive cog out to the midfield where more often than not Milner was on the end of it. This season, the midfield cog and the attacking cog have been changed a bit but you're still getting the likes of dunne and collins launching it to no-one in particular and there's not a milner there to win it and create so half the time we lose it, and there's more pressure on the defence and more goals against. As i said a simplification of our problems but thats how i see it.
-
i still wouldn't say we've changed out entire defensive system percy, maybe the aspect of set peices to a degree but the rest....nah.
To a very large degree, and the aspect of our game that has gone to pot most (among many) this season.
Still a bit of mystery why you, I, Martin Laursen and everybody else can see it, but for some reason GH couldn't admit it.
-
Just in case anybody still thinks that how we defend set-pieces is a minor component of the overall 'defensive style', we let 27 goals in from them in the league this season. I seem to recall that one season under zonal marking it was 1 (one).
But nothing's changed.
-
Just in case anybody still thinks that how we defend set-pieces is a minor component of the overall 'defensive style', we let 27 goals in from them in the league this season. I seem to recall that one season under zonal marking it was 1 (one).
But nothing's changed.
Without getting to the big debate about the style of marking the biggest factor about "nothings changed" is the personnel in the back 4 was changing very frequent throughout the season.
-
The latest comments from the general in his thread do not sound like GH is 'on the brink' of a return. Just a gut feeling from it.
-
The latest comments from the general in his thread do not sound like GH is 'on the brink' of a return. Just a gut feeling from it.
That's exactly the impression I got, too.
-
The latest comments from the general in his thread do not sound like GH is 'on the brink' of a return. Just a gut feeling from it.
Sounded more like a 'get off the case' warning to me.
I just can't understand firstly how he can ever consider such a job again and secondly why Villa are considering the situation still.
Things need sorting, things need doing, limbo is not the best advice, ask any Villa fan who lived through the weeks after Mon's walk out.
-
I'm thinking that GH is (with advice from his family and even more importantly doctors) deciding what he is going to do. Villa have quite reasonably set a kind of deadline of a couple of weeks. I would imagine that the club (Randy Lerner and Paul Faulkner) have a preference of what answer they are hoping for. If everyone wants to call it quits or everyone wants him to continue no problem. If they hope he stays but he wants to go, they will get someone else. If they are hoping for him to go and he wants to stay, then they have to try and agree the old mutual consent or sack him. (Not great PR if he doesn't go quietly).
-
I'd imagine there is an insurance policy that will pay out should GH have to retire for health reasons.
The club are doing the honourable thing by waiting for the doctor's report next week but I imagine the wheels are already in motion as to who will be filling the hot seat next season.
Let's just wish GH a full and healthy recovery. It's the least he deserves.
-
I'd imagine there is an insurance policy that will pay out should GH have to retire for health reasons.
The club are doing the honourable thing by waiting for the doctor's report next week but I imagine the wheels are already in motion as to who will be filling the hot seat next season.
Let's just wish GH a full and healthy recovery. It's the least he deserves.
Exactly. And there's a world of difference between this situation and the one we faced after O'Neill left. We can afford to wait another week or so without seriously affecting our chances next week. Plus it won't be completely out of the blue, meaning that at least Randy will have started to think of who he may want to appoint.
-
I'd like a decison by early next week latest. Clubs are buying players, signing ours even, contracts need to be sorted and plans need to be made. If he stays then at least i'd hope he was putting feelers out for players and making plans before the illness. If he leaves then the next guy has precious little time to identify his targets and bring them in. He'd be starting from scratch with what looks to be a severely depleted squad. Monday/Tuesday next week at the latest Randy.
-
We can't wait too long.
If GH is well enough to go back to work, he'll know it now. It is not as if an extra couple of weeks is going to bring about a massive change in his long term prospects, surely?
If the board want him to stay, I'll back them, but with some serious reservations. If they think he's got to go, then I don't blame them.
Whatever they do, the absolute worst thing would be to spend weeks prevaricating about it. Houllier has to put his own health first, they're right to say that, but at the same time, we can not hang around too long waiting for him to get better.
It's all a bit harsh and cut throat, maybe, but that's football. If they sleepwalk into a repeat of last season - entering the pre season and season proper with managerial uncertainty, then they can really expect no sympathy from us.
-
Monday/Tuesday next week at the latest Randy.
Surely you mean 'Doug'?
-
I don't think they will this time Paulie, The General hinted not long ago that mistakes were made last time and i would hope that the length of time it took them to appoint GH was one of them and they recognise that.
-
I so hope Lerners team have candidates lined up. (whatever the decision) and i hope Ancelloti is the number one choice. He is the only current manager who i think 90%+ of the fans would have no problem with ......
-
It appears according to the telegraph sources which are usually reliable that Gerard has told the club he will be resuming his job on July 2nd and fully expects to continue as manager-sky have also reported he will return on July 2nd so I guess we can forget about a replacement.
-
It appears according to the telegraph sources which are usually reliable that Gerard has told the club he will be resuming his job on July 2nd and fully expects to continue as manager-sky have also reported he will return on July 2nd so I guess we can forget about a replacement.
"Telling the club" and "expecting to continue" may be at odds with what the club wants. It's imperative that this is confirmed one way or the other as soon as possible.
-
It appears according to the telegraph sources which are usually reliable that Gerard has told the club he will be resuming his job on July 2nd and fully expects to continue as manager-sky have also reported he will return on July 2nd so I guess we can forget about a replacement.
Sky were just reporting what the Telegraph had printed this morning, so it was'nt really two separate sources. I don't think anyone knows anything yet, the media are just speculating like we all are.
-
edit
-
ASTON VILLA manager Gerard Houllier has targeted a return to work with Aston Villa – after doctors reassured him that his recent health scare was nothing to do with his job. He expects to be back at the helm for pre-season training as early as July 7.
He is already lining up a raft of transfer deals ahead of the new season. Houllier, 63, has been on sick leave from Aston Villa since April 20 after suffering chest pains, but hopes to get a final go-ahead from doctors to return to work over the next few days.
A close friend said: “He is now more active, taking walks, and is waiting for them to clear him. He is very keen to get on with things.
“He has been working on his transfer targets for some time now and wants to recruit some new players to strengthen the team.”
There had been fears at the club that the pressures of management might have been too much for Houllier to return to the Villa Park hotseat, with Gary McAllister acting as caretaker manager in his absence. But the Daily Express understands that doctors have now indicated this is not the case.
Our source added: “This had nothing to do with stress – and it could happen in any job.”
Houllier, 63, is keen to strengthen his squad with players who fit his philosophy. “He has been working on his transfer targets for some time and wants to recruit some new players,” added the source. But there are concerns within Villa for Houllier’s health and doubts about whether he should return to the stresses of football management. But our source is adamant that there are no medical reasons why Houllier cannot return over the summer. “People think Gerard has a heart problem,” he said. “His heart is strong. This is about the aorta. Once it heals, he’ll be fine. This has nothing to do with stress; this could happen in any job.” Relegated West Ham are set to slash their wage bill further by selling Thomas Hitzlsperger back to Villa, where he began his career in English football a decade ago.
Read more: http://www.express.co.uk/football/view/248873/Gerard-Houllier-making-a-date-for-returnGerard-Houllier-making-a-date-for-return#ixzz1NRSJOH4F
-
If he comes back then that will be the last nail in the coffin for me to re-new my ST. Health issues aside, I just don't think he has done a very good job.
-
If the club are daft enough to go into the summer and then the new season with Houllier still in charge, then they deserve everything they get.
-
This may seem harsh but I wonder if geds health issue has made it awkward for randy and if he had planned to sack him but maybe now would find it difficult or somewhat heartless to do so, in view of the recent illness?
-
Fucking July? Get on with it! If we miss out on Foster while they are making their minds up I won't be happy.
-
I want GH to stay providing he's fit but if Randy decides otherwise he has to be ruthless. I'm sure a few knobheads in the press will portray him as heartless but he has to bite the bullet and quickly. After all if we go into the season with half a squad because we delayed making a decision and struggle, none of them will be praising him for his kindness
-
This may seem harsh but I wonder if geds health issue has made it awkward for randy and if he had planned to sack him but maybe now would find it difficult or somewhat heartless to do so, in view of the recent illness?
I was thinking the same thing. Guess if it is the case they'll need to sit down and say "We can sack you or say it's medical grounds - your choice."
MY own biggest concern is not him coming back, but what happens is similar issues occur again next season. Is that a chance the club is willing to take?
-
Fucking July? Get on with it! If we miss out on Foster while they are making their minds up I won't be happy.
we bought Ireland with no manager , dont worry :o
-
MY own biggest concern is not him coming back, but what happens is similar issues occur again next season. Is that a chance the club is willing to take?
Which, I would say, is fairly likely.
Then we're stuck with G-Mac as our manager. Not good enough.
-
Whatever the improvements made during the last month or so, I fear that there is a whiff of spoiled goods around Houllier and the regime. Even if the quacks declare him fitter than a butchers dog, the board are going to have to take the feelings of the fans into consideration as whether they like it or not, there are many fans that are hoping the illness leads to a dignified exit and closure of a rather depressing season. If nothing is done and he is back at the helm come July then I really fear that there is going to be a vociferous backlash from a small but vocal group.
-
If the club are daft enough to go into the summer and then the new season with Houllier still in charge, then they deserve everything they get.
Agree.
Another season of struggle with him in charge, i'm afraid.
I'm glad the season is over, i've had a gutful of it all.
-
Houllier: Hi mr Foster. I am currently waiting for my "Aorta" to heal. But if all goes well would you be interested in joining us ? No disrespect to Houllier (i like him) but this should be taken out of his hands for all concerned ......
-
Whatever the improvements made during the last month or so, I fear that there is a whiff of spoiled goods around Houllier and the regime. Even if the quacks declare him fitter than a butchers dog, the board are going to have to take the feelings of the fans into consideration as whether they like it or not, there are many fans that are hoping the illness leads to a dignified exit and closure of a rather depressing season. If nothing is done and he is back at the helm come July then I really fear that there is going to be a vociferous backlash from a small but vocal group.
If they make a change then another small but gobby group will be on the new bloke's back in 5 minutes flat if he doesn't make a good start. The club have to do what they think is right, not be swayed by over exciteable fans.
-
Am I the only one that thinks GH will still be our manager next season?
-
I think he will. I think he won't be back at work till July by which time all the decent players we could've signed will have agreed deals elsewhere and we will spend July and August haggling over the Young fee before selling him for about £12 million, by which time it will be too late to locate a replacement. But then I am feeling like a bit of a misery-arse today.
-
Am I the only one that thinks GH will still be our manager next season?
Nope - I'm also finding it increasingly likely given what we're hearing and the longer it goes without the club taking action the more likely that is due to him staying.
-
Am I the only one that thinks GH will still be our manager next season?
not at all. And if he's fit enough to do it, and granted the IF is several feet tall, then in my opinion he deserves a full summer and season to manage the club.
-
Whatever the improvements made during the last month or so, I fear that there is a whiff of spoiled goods around Houllier and the regime. Even if the quacks declare him fitter than a butchers dog, the board are going to have to take the feelings of the fans into consideration as whether they like it or not, there are many fans that are hoping the illness leads to a dignified exit and closure of a rather depressing season. If nothing is done and he is back at the helm come July then I really fear that there is going to be a vociferous backlash from a small but vocal group.
If they make a change then another small but gobby group will be on the new bloke's back in 5 minutes flat if he doesn't make a good start. The club have to do what they think is right, not be swayed by over exciteable fans.
Totally agree with you and the same time I'm equally depressed by the fact that if we replace the manager with someone else and don't get off to a flyer we'll get a repeat of this season. Its all about modern football and frankly its a pile of sh**
-
Am I the only one that thinks GH will still be our manager next season?
Nope - I'm also finding it increasingly likely given what we're hearing and the longer it goes without the club taking action the more likely that is due to him staying.
Me neither.
From The Express article yesterday, which was linked in relation to the Hitz issue:
But there are concerns within Villa for Houllier’s health and doubts about whether he should return to the stresses of football management. But our source is adamant that there are no medical reasons why Houllier cannot return over the summer. “People think Gerard has a heart problem,” he said. “His heart is strong. This is about the aorta. Once it heals, he’ll be fine. This has nothing to do with stress; this could happen in any job.”
GERARD HOULLIER MAKING A DATE FOR RETURN (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/248873/Gerard-Houllier-making-a-date-for-return/Gerard-Houllier-making-a-date-for-return)
-
If the club were to part company with GH, I think it would've been done by now. Once the clean bill of health comes in I think he will resume.
If so, I hope he repays the faith of the club and those on here, but I maintain that he's not the man for Villa, I thought that last summer and I've seen nothing to change my mind. In fact my view has hardened given the season we had. And I also think the board will have to put the inevitable spin on what will be undoubtedly poor season ticket sales.
-
I'd like to see what transfers we do this summer and then give him at least until Xmas and see where we are, I too believe from the noises we are hearing that houllier will continue as boss, maybe randy feels uncomfortable about axing him so soon after his illness.
-
Am I the only one that thinks GH will still be our manager next season?
I'm 60-40 that he will leave, but if he hasn't left by mid-June, I think he'll stay.
I like GH and think that he has got some unwarranted stick, but if he stays, it will be a naive decision by the board.
-
I think we need to accept (fans and RL) that we need to change the manager or give him next season. I can't see a mid-season change being great. So if anyone is in the 'lets give him till Christmas' camp if think it's time to do the old Mike Reed's Runaround and stand on one spot or the other. I'm for a change now personally.
-
Too much Tweeting going on about him returning for my liking.
I wanted him out before the aorta problem, and still want him out.
We don't get much luck do we - he's holding us up as far as I can see.
-
I think we need to accept (fans and RL) that we need to change the manager or give him next season. I can't see a mid-season change being great. So if anyone is in the 'lets give him till Christmas' camp if think it's time to do the old Mike Reed's Runaround and stand on one spot or the other. I'm for a change now personally.
Hard to disagree with that.
Whether it's due to health issues or beacuse he's not doing well enough, Gezza going now is much preferrable to mid season and having a third spell in 2 seasons of a caretaker manager.
-
I can't see that it matters whether or not the stress of football management will affect his health. It's the fact that he's got a recurring illness, and a serious one at that, that might keep him away from his job for weeks or months at a time that causes problems. If it happens again, and there's a good chance it might, it affects his ability to do his job properly, which will hamper our progress. Randy may think he's doing the honourable thing by welcoming him back, but the true gentlemanly act would be to save him from a very unpleasant situation should this ever happen again, especially if we're having another poor season.
It would be a mistake to keep him if we're expecting anything more than uncertainty and mediocrity next season, but if we're looking to win karma points instead of Premier League ones then maybe we'll be onto something.
-
I'm probably in a minority on here but if he is fit enough to return, I would like to see what he does to re-shape the squad as he wants it this summer. I saw enough after Xmas to see that his philosophy was beginning to show signs on the pitch - and the players and management held things together to the end of the season when he was absent.
A new manager in the next few weeks would mean starting again and a close season lost given the new man would have to assess the squad.
However, we need to do the transfer business as early in the summer as possible. Move Young on if he's going, keep Downing and do the deals that Houllier seems to have lined up. Let's go into the season stable and ready to go.
-
I believe that it was always the plan to move GH into a more executive role concerned with the overall strategic direction of the club and that this will still happen now, as long as he gets the go-ahead from the medics. I know this raises the question of who would work under him, but in the words of the flop heard fop singer from ABC, I don't know the answer to that question.
-
I'm pretty sure he'll be staying now, and that's fine by me. I'm assuming (I know, I know.....) that he'll be bringing in a good few new players (a few good new players?), as well as getting rid of some, and with that in mind I'm more than happy to see what he can do.
I don't think you can forget some of daft things he did, but......well, he got us to finish ninth in the league in the end, beating Arsenal and Liverpool along the way. If the table doesn't lie when we're sitting at the bottom of it, I think you have to accept it's validity when we're halfway up it, too. So, if he's healthy enough to carry on, he deserves a shot at it.
-
Whatever happens it needs to be confirmed quickly.
-
I'm not in favour of moving him 'upstairs' either. Firstly I think it's fudging the issue and secondly I don't think it works. A chief executive running the business side fine, but once it's a director of football thrown in too, not for me. It doesn't seem to be going swimmingly with Mancini, Cook and Marwood and I don't think it will be long before Dalglish and old Charlie Corroli fall out at Liverpool either.
-
I don't think you can forget some of daft things he did, but......well, he got us to finish ninth in the league in the end, beating Arsenal and Liverpool along the way. If the table doesn't lie when we're sitting at the bottom of it, I think you have to accept it's validity when we're halfway up it, too. So, if he's healthy enough to carry on, he deserves a shot at it.
Well, we spent most of the season in the bottom half of the table and we looked a dreadful team for most it. Only two unexpected but good wins put us up in 9th. The final position makes it not look as bad as it often was.
I think a change is needed personally, the place needs lifting again like it was when MON walked in.
-
Well, we spent most of the season in the bottom half of the table and we looked a dreadful team for most it. Only two unexpected but good wins put us up in 9th. The final position makes it not look as bad as it often was.
I think a change is needed personally, the place needs lifting again like it was when MON walked in.
Can you not remember the buzz around here when we signed Bent? That sort of lift can be done without needing to change manager I think.
-
Well, we spent most of the season in the bottom half of the table and we looked a dreadful team for most it. Only two unexpected but good wins put us up in 9th. The final position makes it not look as bad as it often was.
I think a change is needed personally, the place needs lifting again like it was when MON walked in.
Can you not remember the buzz around here when we signed Bent? That sort of lift can be done without needing to change manager I think.
Yes i do remember and that's the kind of lift i'm talking about, it was totally unexpected but Randy is not going to be shelling out that kind of money too often.
-
GH simply has a long standing health problem, like alot of guys his age, and needs to call it a day, irrespective of the job he is doing. For the good of the club, team, fans and all connected, it is the wise thing to say "Thanks Gerard, but for your sake and everyone else's, we need to plan NOW for the future. Bye bye". If he was as fit a flea, fine. But he ain't. And we shouldn't be putting him or our wonderful club through anymore doubt and uncertainty. Let's look for a new man NOW, and let the planning for an exciting 2011-12 begin!
-
Whatever anybody thinks of Houllier he simply is not the future, if you love him you still can't envisage he's fit enough for the rigours of Premiership football and the pressure that follows, he couldn't hack it at Liverpool and i'm saying that with the greatest of respect to his former career.
Fact is Houllier health failed at a time that could have seen results turn very sour and we would easily be playing in the Championship now, his health failed at a time when we needed him to be at his strongest, we got lucky and survived, its in GH's interest and the clubs to shake hands and let the man go, IMHO.
-
have the club not already said they are waiting for doctors reports and will make a decision next week, or did i read that wrong ?
-
have the club not already said they are waiting for doctors reports and will make a decision next week, or did i read that wrong ?
I think this report is pending, but lets face it, even if they give him a clean bill of health no test on the planet can legislate for the kind of pressure that GH may face if the club is facing the kind of run in next season as he did this.
I was looking at him at the end of 90mins after a few of the poorer results through the last few months of this season, the guy looked wrecked, grey drawn old man with his anorak on, hound dog expression, mortified.
Nice enough bloke, wouldn't want to put him through any potential banners being waved next season though.
-
have the club not already said they are waiting for doctors reports and will make a decision next week, or did i read that wrong ?
I think this report is pending, but lets face it, even if they give him a clean bill of health no test on the planet can legislate for the kind of pressure that GH may face if the club is facing the kind of run in next season as he did this.
I was looking at him at the end of 90mins after a few of the poorer results through the last few months of this season, the guy looked wrecked, grey drawn old man with his anorak on, hound dog expression, mortified.
Nice enough bloke, wouldn't want to put him through any potential banners being waved next season though.
He looked wrecked? So were most of Villa park at the end of each match!
-
There seem to be a lot of doctors and health experts posting on this thread- a respected surgeon has already said his problem wasn't stress related or job related and his heart is fine- the aorta was the problem and once healed there is no reason medically why he should not continue.
The question is should he continue based on the evidence of last season, not his health but his ability as a manager and it appears from the noises from geds friends and Gary mac that plans are well underway for pre season and houllier will be manager.
He needs to make many changes to the squad and let's see where he takes us but I think he will be staying as manager and that worries me to a degree , let's hope he gets the players in and out that be wants.
-
I think the question that the board should ask is, would they have offered Hollier the job in the first instance had they known there was a chance he could miss a significant part of the season due to an illness.
If the answer is no, they they have to let him go now.
If the answer is yes, then they obviously believe they have the very best man for the job.
-
I think the question the board need to ask is has GED on a football basis done enough to convince them he can take the club upwards , as I said yesterday maybe his illness has clouded the issue and I wonder if randy maybe had planned to sack him but now would find It difficult to do so in view of his illness and how the club and maybe randy would be portrayed if they decided to terminate his contract now?
-
I think the question the board need to ask is has GED on a football basis done enough to convince them he can take the club upwards , as I said yesterday maybe his illness has clouded the issue and I wonder if randy maybe had planned to sack him but now would find It difficult to do so in view of his illness and how the club and maybe randy would be portrayed if they decided to terminate his contract now?
I think Randy would have accepted 9th at the beginning of Houlliers tenure.
-
If the medical report says he can't continue, it won't cost the club as much . Sacking him now would cost a lot more.If the report says he's fit to work I think he's here to stay or else why bother waiting for the report ??
-
I think the question the board need to ask is has GED on a football basis done enough to convince them he can take the club upwards , as I said yesterday maybe his illness has clouded the issue and I wonder if randy maybe had planned to sack him but now would find It difficult to do so in view of his illness and how the club and maybe randy would be portrayed if they decided to terminate his contract now?
I think Randy would have accepted 9th at the beginning of Houlliers tenure.
Aye, given all the off-field turmoil, the lack of investment last summer, the injury problems and the rebellious troublemakers i think its round about where we should be currently.
-
Well I say at the start that top 8 would be acceptable and we missed out by a point so I guess given the circumstances of the season it's very respectable, although it was close to being much much worse- as Saunders used to say you finish where you deserve to finish and the table doesn't lie.
-
I think Randy would have accepted 9th at the beginning of Houlliers tenure.
If we're trying to balance everything then it's probably fair to say it was a decent final position. Yes, he made mistakes early doors and that cost us points we should have been picking up, but then that's balanced by the good results towards the end, particularly just before he got taken ill and then the final two games.
Based on that alone I've come round to thinking he deserves another season.
However, when you factor in his medical problems what he deserves and what he is capable of are two very different issues.
-
there's a thread on here about Ancelotti with a lot of people saying basically how mad chelsea are sacking him, and yet here's a guy who won the double last year and despite having a full pre-season, unlimited money and a superb squad they still finished 15 points down on last year. Now while i wouldn't have sacked him, considering we finished a similar amount of points down this season i wonder why sacking Ancelloti is madness while GH being shown the door with all the problems we've had is acceptable.
I guess you'd have to find out if the majority of chelsea fans are saying "he gots to go, this side won the league last season". I'm guessing not.
-
Houllier didn't take over until after the season had started. He had to assess O'Neill's squad of players as he went along, some of which couldn't play the more technical style Houllier wanted to impose. He suffered whingeing players who wouldn't or couldn't adapt to this new style, and endured a massive injury crisis to boot, forcing the blooding of young inexperienced players. Who on here would have predicted a cenre midfield of Hogg and Bannan lining up against Manchester United?!
Yes, the guy has made mistakes, including some nauseating PR errors of judgement, but doesn't he deserve a full pre-season this summer, where he can rid himself of the deadwood and troublemakers while bringing in his own men?
If fit and willing, Houllier is a well respected man in the world of football and deserves the opportunity. The time to judge him will be in six months time.
-
I think roman wants the champions league above everything else and whoever manages Chelsea is unlikely to get more than 2 yrs to have a crack at it- interested in seeing Carlo saying he wants to stay in England and manage another club, whoever gets him will be getting an excellent manager.
I think most Chelsea fans would point to the owner as the problem last season and his decision to sack Wilkins.
-
We can't risk another season disrupted by health worries and there are far better managers available now than there were when MON left. Sorry, but it would be daft to have him in charge of first team affairs next year.
-
That's if his health is an issue Cheltenham, and reports are suggesting it's not job related and his heart is fine, once the aorta has healed the surgeons seem to think there is no problem , and it is not a stress related issue according to latest reports.
Thereby if randy decides to get rid it will have to be on football grounds alone as all indications are that GED will get the all clear medically.
-
I think I would feel easier about the ticking health issue (no pun intended) if Gary Mac wasn't the assistant. Still like to see him go and replaced by someone who won't antagonise the players.
-
Agreed, if GED could get phil Thompson and Patrick bergues in then they would probably be the most important additions of the summer.
-
He needs to leave, for his own health and also ours.
The uncertainty surrounding our club needs to be resolved as soon as possible, season ticket renewals are poor, players are getting uneasy and I cannot see how it will help anyone including Houllier, if he stays in charge.
I'm sure Mr Lerner will take the correct decision and hopefully next week.
-
Houllier didn't take over until after the season had started. He had to assess O'Neill's squad of players as he went along, some of which couldn't play the more technical style Houllier wanted to impose. He suffered whingeing players who wouldn't or couldn't adapt to this new style, and endured a massive injury crisis to boot, forcing the blooding of young inexperienced players. Who on here would have predicted a cenre midfield of Hogg and Bannan lining up against Manchester United?!
Yes, the guy has made mistakes, including some nauseating PR errors of judgement, but doesn't he deserve a full pre-season this summer, where he can rid himself of the deadwood and troublemakers while bringing in his own men?
If fit and willing, Houllier is a well respected man in the world of football and deserves the opportunity. The time to judge him will be in six months time.
Does he deserve a full summer?
No
he should work just for signed Pires and having him chauffer driven up every every day and then sending bannan out on a pointless loan to leeds, then recalling him and still not doing anything with him.
Add to that the shit tactics in the cup against small heath
add to that Man city - he still doesn't get why we were pissed off
add to that Liverpool away
add to that playing gabby on the wing
-
That's if his health is an issue Cheltenham, and reports are suggesting it's not job related and his heart is fine, once the aorta has healed the surgeons seem to think there is no problem , and it is not a stress related issue according to latest reports.
Even if it's isn't directly stress related, who's to say something similar won't happen next year? Or that his heart has once again been weakened and the stress of the job WILL have a bearing from here on in?
-
I can't believe he hasn't gone yet. The owners at Chelsea and West Ham are rightly criticised for numerous reasons but at least they dealt with the manager issue decisively and quickly.
-
Putting aside the health factors which obviously has a big bearing on Randy's decision, if he was 100% i'd still give him at least a year from when he took over. He made plenty of mistakes last season i'd agree, but there was enough there to show things could get better. The only time i was really worried was after the wolves game's gutless performance which i put down to the two twats in defence deciding to stir it. Of course the downside to backing him this summer in the transfer market is having to sack him before christmas if things haven't improved. A lot of money for randy to write-off
-
Houllier didn't take over until after the season had started. He had to assess O'Neill's squad of players as he went along, some of which couldn't play the more technical style Houllier wanted to impose. He suffered whingeing players who wouldn't or couldn't adapt to this new style, and endured a massive injury crisis to boot, forcing the blooding of young inexperienced players. Who on here would have predicted a cenre midfield of Hogg and Bannan lining up against Manchester United?!
Yes, the guy has made mistakes, including some nauseating PR errors of judgement, but doesn't he deserve a full pre-season this summer, where he can rid himself of the deadwood and troublemakers while bringing in his own men?
If fit and willing, Houllier is a well respected man in the world of football and deserves the opportunity. The time to judge him will be in six months time.
Does he deserve a full summer?
No
he should work just for signed Pires and having him chauffer driven up every every day and then sending bannan out on a pointless loan to leeds, then recalling him and still not doing anything with him.
Add to that the shit tactics in the cup against small heath
add to that Man city - he still doesn't get why we were pissed off
add to that Liverpool away
add to that playing gabby on the wing
If managers got sacked for not doing exactly what a supporter wants there would be a lot of vacancies.
-
There seem to be a lot of doctors and health experts posting on this thread- a respected surgeon has already said his problem wasn't stress related or job related and his heart is fine- the aorta was the problem and once healed there is no reason medically why he should not continue.
The question is should he continue based on the evidence of last season, not his health but his ability as a manager and it appears from the noises from geds friends and Gary mac that plans are well underway for pre season and houllier will be manager.
He needs to make many changes to the squad and let's see where he takes us but I think he will be staying as manager and that worries me to a degree , let's hope he gets the players in and out that be wants.
Was it not the case that he was on beta blockers and blood pressure related drugs, even so, facts are facts, he had a heart problem at Liverpool that led to him to retire from the game in that role, its happened again, what are the chances of this happening yet again, so bearing in mind this is clearly an on going problem in spite of what this surgeon says is he prepared to say this problem is absolutely and completely resolved, i very much doubt it.
Lets get real, if you could imagine someone had a health problem, that health problem was heart related, are we saying that an environment such as football management, certainly one of the most pressurised jobs going is best for that person, its a bit like telling an alcoholic go and be a wine taster ;)
I except the point that its not necessarily the pressure involved with the job that kicks it of, however, it seems strange that it happened at his time at Liverpool doing this job and now at Villa and yet when he was upstairs for the French FA, nothing, was it also not the case he had a bit of a scare at Lyon.
IMO, in himself he's not a fit bloke and he's not the future, players must be thinking its not happening for this club unless changes are made, which causes unrest and a lack of team unity thus players speaking out all the time. That's my opinion, don't' doubt the blokes knowledge or ability, track record etc., but, he's not a well man and he's not a young man.
-
I don't think Houllier was good enough when he was appointed, and I don't think he's good enough now. Add in his health problems and it would be absolute madness to retain his services.
-
I don't think Houllier was good enough when he was appointed, and I don't think he's good enough now. Add in his health problems and it would be absolute madness to retain his services.
If he's deemed fit to work he's here to stay I'm afraid or else why bother waiting for the medical report ?
-
If he's deemed fit to work he's here to stay I'm afraid or else why bother waiting for the medical report ?
To use it as a convenient excuse to avoid outright sacking him?
-
Houllier didn't take over until after the season had started. He had to assess O'Neill's squad of players as he went along, some of which couldn't play the more technical style Houllier wanted to impose. He suffered whingeing players who wouldn't or couldn't adapt to this new style, and endured a massive injury crisis to boot, forcing the blooding of young inexperienced players. Who on here would have predicted a cenre midfield of Hogg and Bannan lining up against Manchester United?!
Yes, the guy has made mistakes, including some nauseating PR errors of judgement, but doesn't he deserve a full pre-season this summer, where he can rid himself of the deadwood and troublemakers while bringing in his own men?
If fit and willing, Houllier is a well respected man in the world of football and deserves the opportunity. The time to judge him will be in six months time.
Does he deserve a full summer?
No
he should work just for signed Pires and having him chauffer driven up every every day and then sending bannan out on a pointless loan to leeds, then recalling him and still not doing anything with him.
Add to that the shit tactics in the cup against small heath
add to that Man city - he still doesn't get why we were pissed off
add to that Liverpool away
add to that playing gabby on the wing
If managers got sacked for not doing exactly what a supporter wants there would be a lot of vacancies.
Funnily enough I thought that every supporter wants and expects our manager to try and win every game and to pick the team accordingly.
GH still doesn't understand what the fuss was about which shows someone who is way out of touch with the game and totally oblivious as to what we as Villa fans expect.
-
Funnily enough I thought that every supporter wants and expects our manager to try and win every game and to pick the team accordingly.
GH still doesn't understand what the fuss was about which shows someone who is way out of touch with the game and totally oblivious as to what we as Villa fans expect.
Managers pick weakened teams all the time without demands for their sacking - Spurs v Arsenal in the League Cup for example.
-
If he's deemed fit to work he's here to stay I'm afraid or else why bother waiting for the medical report ?
To use it as a convenient excuse to avoid outright sacking him?
But won't we look rather foolish ? Saying we're waiting for a medical report GH gets the all clear but we sack him anyway !!??
-
If he's deemed fit to work he's here to stay I'm afraid or else why bother waiting for the medical report ?
To use it as a convenient excuse to avoid outright sacking him?
But won't we look rather foolish ? Saying we're waiting for a medical report GH gets the all clear but we sack him anyway !!??
The report won't be open for public viewing, so we can say pretty much what we like about it. And Gezza won;t contradict us it there's a nice pay off in it for him. Or maybe thing are worse then we're being told and they pretty much KNOW it'll say he should step down.
-
I think it's almost certain that he's going to be here next season. I'm still not 100% convinced by him but if that's the decision then I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do with a full summer to prepare the squad in the way he wants.
We can all point to instances of things that he did that we didn't like but I wanted at least a mid table finish this season and that's what we got.
-
Agree totally mr smith!
-
Scarily, so do I.
-
Funnily enough I thought that every supporter wants and expects our manager to try and win every game and to pick the team accordingly.
GH still doesn't understand what the fuss was about which shows someone who is way out of touch with the game and totally oblivious as to what we as Villa fans expect.
Managers pick weakened teams all the time without demands for their sacking - Spurs v Arsenal in the League Cup for example.
Arsenal were going for the League title and Champions League. We were mid table with nothing else to play for.
-
And me Chris.
-
I think it's almost certain that he's going to be here next season. I'm still not 100% convinced by him but if that's the decision then I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do with a full summer to prepare the squad in the way he wants.
We can all point to instances of things that he did that we didn't like but I wanted at least a mid table finish this season and that's what we got.
Are you inside my brain?
-
I can't believe he hasn't gone yet. The owners at Chelsea and West Ham are rightly criticised for numerous reasons but at least they dealt with the manager issue decisively and quickly.
While I would like the situation clarified as soon as possible, I actually like the fact that Lerner and the rest of the Board are treating Houllier like a human being rather than as a chattel or serving boy to be dismissed at the owner's whim or displeasure.
-
I can't believe he hasn't gone yet. The owners at Chelsea and West Ham are rightly criticised for numerous reasons but at least they dealt with the manager issue decisively and quickly.
While I would like the situation clarified as soon as possible, I actually like the fact that Lerner and the rest of the Board are treating Houllier like a human being rather than as a chattel or serving boy to be dismissed at the owner's whim or displeasure.
That's another fair comment. Since Randy arrived we've taken pride in the fact that he does things properly. We can't then demand he acts like Gordon Gecko because it might suit us better.
-
I can't believe he hasn't gone yet. The owners at Chelsea and West Ham are rightly criticised for numerous reasons but at least they dealt with the manager issue decisively and quickly.
While I would like the situation clarified as soon as possible, I actually like the fact that Lerner and the rest of the Board are treating Houllier like a human being rather than as a chattel or serving boy to be dismissed at the owner's whim or displeasure.
Spot on, how I've often moaned when I hear on the radio or seen on the internet how people behave and act in the world of football.
-
I can't believe he hasn't gone yet. The owners at Chelsea and West Ham are rightly criticised for numerous reasons but at least they dealt with the manager issue decisively and quickly.
While I would like the situation clarified as soon as possible, I actually like the fact that Lerner and the rest of the Board are treating Houllier like a human being rather than as a chattel or serving boy to be dismissed at the owner's whim or displeasure.
That's another fair comment. Since Randy arrived we've taken pride in the fact that he does things properly. We can't then demand he acts like Gordon Gecko because it might suit us better.
My concern as a confirmed Houllier sceptic is that the delay might mean he's being given another season. If he is, although I wouldn't like it, I'd rather the board came out and confirmed it so everyone knows where they stand.
-
Why do I get this uneasy feeling while reading this thread that some people would actually prefer it if Hotlips was more seriously ill than he appears to be just so he doesn't come back? As mentioned above, it was a heart defect with the aorta, not a stress related heart attack, if the doctors deem him fit, and his family don't persuade him otherwise, he'll be back.
If you are worried about his ticker how about getting behind him, that would be better for his health surely?
-
The fact that he wants to be the manager after a serious illness speaks volumes for him, certainly against the grain of recent rumours about Downing and Young. I look forward to cheering him on later in the summer, and hope we can at least sing or chant for him.
-
The frustrating thing for me is that last August when MON walked, there were very very few decent candidates for the job, ie most people saw GH as best of a bad bunch.
That's now changed. Right now there are a number of very attractive options; managers who I think would be tempted to have a crack at the Villa job. Off the top of my head - Ancellotti, Rijkaard, Jol, Benitez, Van Gaal, have all become available since.
I fear that if GH carries on, and things don't improve, we'll be back to square one in 6-12 months with no decent managers available again.
-
Don't know about others but while (of course) I don't want him to be ill, I'd be happier if he didn't come back as manager and I'm surprised so many people are willing to give him another season after the season we've just had. I like Houllier, he comes across well when he speaks and everybody seems to rate him within the game but he has been a disaster for Villa so far.
There appears to be a larger pool of available managers (Moyes, Hughes, dare I say Ancelotti) than there was last time we were recruiting so this could be an opportunity missed if we aren't careful.
If he stays and we go on to do something worth cheering about I will eat my words gladly. I just don't see it happening.
-
The fact that he wants to be the manager after a serious illness speaks volumes for him, certainly against the grain of recent rumours about Downing and Young. I look forward to cheering him on later in the summer, and hope we can at least sing or chant for him.
I don't think it's very different at all really, they all just want to earn millions of pounds. Young and Downing want to earn even more millions at bigger clubs. Houllier wants to carry on earning millions at Villa because nobody else is going to pay him that much.
-
Beat me to it Marlon.
-
I'd be happier if he didn't come back as manager
I don't think he will: he'll play in a withdrawn role, supplying the ammunition for GMac who will be in the forward line.
I don't think it's the right formation but there you go.
-
I'd be happier if he didn't come back as manager
I don't think he will: he'll play in a withdrawn role, supplying the ammunition for GMac who will be in the forward line.
I don't think it's the right formation but there you go.
Dear God no.
-
The fact that he wants to be the manager after a serious illness speaks volumes for him, certainly against the grain of recent rumours about Downing and Young. I look forward to cheering him on later in the summer, and hope we can at least sing or chant for him.
I don't think it's very different at all really, they all just want to earn millions of pounds. Young and Downing want to earn even more millions at bigger clubs. Houllier wants to carry on earning millions at Villa because nobody else is going to pay him that much.
Blimey Risso you have become somewhat cynical of late - are you going through the change ? :)
-
There are better gaffer's available, he isn't a young man, isn't in the rudest health and, most importantly, I don't want to lose another season because of managerial instability should he bve taken ill again. Entirely selfish on my part admittedly, but that's the way I see it.
-
I was told today, by somebody who works with Villa at boardroom level, that GH will be going, and Curbishley and McLaren are amongst those being considered.
-
I was told today, by somebody who works with Villa at boardroom level, that GH will be going, and Curbishley and McLaren are amongst those being considered.
Please recover quickly GH
-
I was told today, by somebody who works with Villa at boardroom level, that GH will be going, and Curbishley and McLaren are amongst those being considered.
Please recover quickly GH
Absolutely!
-
Don't know about others but while (of course) I don't want him to be ill, I'd be happier if he didn't come back as manager and I'm surprised so many people are willing to give him another season after the season we've just had. I like Houllier, he comes across well when he speaks and everybody seems to rate him within the game but he has been a disaster for Villa so far.
There appears to be a larger pool of available managers (Moyes, Hughes, dare I say Ancelotti) than there was last time we were recruiting so this could be an opportunity missed if we aren't careful.
If he stays and we go on to do something worth cheering about I will eat my words gladly. I just don't see it happening.
Agree with all that.
But if the alternative is Alan Fucking Curbishley I may re-consider.
-
Why do I get this uneasy feeling while reading this thread that some people would actually prefer it if Hotlips was more seriously ill than he appears to be just so he doesn't come back? As mentioned above, it was a heart defect with the aorta, not a stress related heart attack, if the doctors deem him fit, and his family don't persuade him otherwise, he'll be back.
If you are worried about his ticker how about getting behind him, that would be better for his health surely?
Well said mr cooper! Im now fully expecting houllier back as manager and hope we can put the rumours behind us and he will get on with rebuiding the squad and getting in the players he feels will take us forward- i think if he was going a decision would have been made by now and all the quotes from his friends indicate he is well on the way back and looking forward to it.
-
Why do I get this uneasy feeling while reading this thread that some people would actually prefer it if Hotlips was more seriously ill than he appears to be just so he doesn't come back? As mentioned above, it was a heart defect with the aorta, not a stress related heart attack, if the doctors deem him fit, and his family don't persuade him otherwise, he'll be back.
If you are worried about his ticker how about getting behind him, that would be better for his health surely?
I think there are two seperate questions here.
1. Given his health problems, is he fit to come back and continue as our manager, and manage to do so for the foreseeable future.
2. Leaving health problems to one side - should he be invited to continue anyway, ie if he had had no issues, should we be looking at sacking him following a poor season.
The sticky situation now is that, given his health issues, point 2 is getting forgotten.
Wanting him to get better - as everyone does - is not the same as wanting him to carry on as manager.
The board need to ascertain if he's fit enough, and then when they know he is, look dispassionately at whether they want to keep him on.; Keeping him on purely because he's been ill is every bit as bad as sacking him because he's been ill would be.
-
Villa manager Gerard Houllier has dropped a strong hint that he plans to resume managerial duties after making his first public appearance since his heart problems.
The 63-year-old made a surprise visit to Villa Park with family and friends to watch a charity game involving shirt sponsors FxPro and the Acorns hospice.
Houllier signed autographs and posed for pictures with fans, telling them he was “feeling fine” and “hoped to be back soon.”
The Frenchman has been resting at his Worcestershire home, having been initially admitted to hospital on April 21 suffering from a dissection of the lower aorta.
But Houllier has made good progress over the past month and appears confident he will be able to return to the dug-out, although it is understood he may be excused Villa’s pre-season trip to Hong Kong for the Barclays Asia Trophy.
A final decision on his return has yet to be made by the Villa board, who will listen to the advice of medical experts on whether he will be allowed to come back with a reduced workload.
Owner Randy Lerner and chief executive Paul Faulkner are acutely aware of the need to avoid a repeat of last summer, which was characterised by uncertainty over Martin O’Neill’s future and ultimately led to his departure five days before the season started.
But winger Marc Albrighton already has one eye on the new campaign, even though the Premier League season finished less than a week ago.
The 21-year=old is readying himself for England duty at the European under-21 Championships in Denmark
Read more: http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/aston-villa-fc/2011/05/27/villa-boss-drops-hint-on-return-date/#ixzz1NZHXuA1b
-
Talk about a bloody contradiction.
He will hopefully be declared fit for duty, but will be excused the trip to Hong Kong !
WHat the hell is that about.
He's either 100% fit to continue with ALL of his duties, or he's fucking not.
-
That would be a great start wouldn't it? Missing a pre-season trip. I understand there has to be a period of recovery but if a manager isn't up to a handful of friendlies how is he up to nine months of competitive games a few weeks later?
-
That would be a great start wouldn't it? Missing a pre-season trip.
What if he uses that time to pull some transfers and contract talks together whilst recieving detailed reports of the friendlies from GMac and his team of coaches?
Seems a decent idea to me.
-
That would be a great start wouldn't it? Missing a pre-season trip.
What if he uses that time to pull some transfers and contract talks together whilst recieving detailed reports of the friendlies from GMac and his team of coaches?
Seems a decent idea to me.
Plus, and I'm purely speculating as I'm not a medical expert, but I would imagine that it's probably the extended air travel to and from Hong Kong that he might have to avoid?
-
What a farce.
Why the hell can't we appoint someone without health issues?
-
If Houllier is fit to continue, he is going nowhere. Randy didn't backed him all the way in January to then get rid of him at the end of the season.
In January GH saw what positions needed stengthening and moved decisively, spending money where he thought the players would be for the future and bringing in loan players where is saw temporary fixes needed until the end of the season.
I see GH as a manager that plans for the future and not just the present like the previous manager did in his last 18 months here. The difference is club or team and whether you think more of the job or more of yourself. I believe this is why Randy selected GH and will give him time to rebuild the team and a sustainable future.
-
That would be a great start wouldn't it? Missing a pre-season trip. I understand there has to be a period of recovery but if a manager isn't up to a handful of friendlies how is he up to nine months of competitive games a few weeks later?
Maybe as DoF he will be managing things at home while our new head coach is in Hong Kong ??
-
I was told today, by somebody who works with Villa at boardroom level, that GH will be going, and Curbishley and McLaren are amongst those being considered.
If ever there was an example of "Be careful what you wish for" then this is it, god no!!
-
That would be a great start wouldn't it? Missing a pre-season trip.
What if he uses that time to pull some transfers and contract talks together whilst recieving detailed reports of the friendlies from GMac and his team of coaches?
Seems a decent idea to me.
Why don't we just let him work from home then?
-
That would be a great start wouldn't it? Missing a pre-season trip.
What if he uses that time to pull some transfers and contract talks together whilst recieving detailed reports of the friendlies from GMac and his team of coaches?
Seems a decent idea to me.
Why don't we just let him work from home then?
Ha! If he can't fulfil the managers role he shouldn't be manager. If he is to be a director of football, whatever the **** that actually is, then we need a much, much better coach than Gary McAllister.
Again, I'm quite surprised that people are so happy to entertain Houllier returning (even though we all wish him health and a long life).
-
The point I'm making is one that's not based on his record last season, or his ability, its his physical and mental state that to me says, no can do. Regardless of what these medical blokes say because they are not going to be there on the touch line, when we have our backs to the wall facing some scouse onslaught in a game, needing our manager to be going frantic at the lads to step it up, and he simply can't do it, he can't get involved.
Mr Houllier resigned from Liverpool on health and stepped down from Lyon because of pressure from the chairman for poor performance saying he was exhausted and needed a break.
This heart problem he has is one that is normally congenital (This is a defect in the aorta, the main artery that carries oxygen-rich blood to the body. In a healthy heart, the aorta is attached to the left ventricle. This allows only oxygen-rich blood to flow to the body.
In tetralogy of Fallot, the aorta is between the left and right ventricles, directly over the VSD. As a result, oxygen-poor blood from the right ventricle flows directly into the aorta instead of into the pulmonary artery to the lungs. Problems can occur when a greater flow of a blood/oxygen mix is required beyond the normal flow rate.)
The only point I'm making is, we have got over the MON era and the hangover that gave us, we now need a management team in place with a 5 year plan, the club needs that, the players need that (definably) and I think the fans need it IMO, also, surely Lerner needs it if he is about to invest further countless millions on rebuilding a side that may well be about to be ripped apart in the transfer market, thing is Houllier simply can't do that. IMO.
-
Why do I get this uneasy feeling while reading this thread that some people would actually prefer it if Hotlips was more seriously ill than he appears to be just so he doesn't come back?
I don't want him to be any more ill than he already is and i don't want him to continue because i don't think he's the right man.
-
Why do I get this uneasy feeling while reading this thread that some people would actually prefer it if Hotlips was more seriously ill than he appears to be just so he doesn't come back?
I don't want him to be any more ill than he already is and i don't want him to continue because i don't think he's the right man.
To want the man to be Ill ( or sicker than he is) would be pretty evil. Not wanting him to remain as manager is a different issue.
-
I have been a huge critic of GH after the Anfield and the FA Cup surrender. But based on the improvement over the last few months I would be happy for him to continue the work he has started. But he isnt fit and healthy, there is a lot of uncertainty surrounding the club right now and this is the last thing we need after the turmoil of last season. We can not go through a summer of wait and see. The club needs certainty in the direction we are going.
-
Way i see it if i sat down and listed the reasons for the relatively bad season i'd put them as follows in order of importance:
1. No decent investment in the summer, bad pre-season, bad fitness regime, ex-manager taking his eye off the ball in a big way.
2. Dissent in the camp, low morale, nutter slagging off the manager, sly gits giving anonymous press briefings and generally acting like twats
3. Manager's bad team selection, playing people out of position etc..
4. the rotten injury list at one point
1. Now, if he stayed that isn't going to happen again.
2. You'd hope any manager worth his salt will ship them out or at the least severely mark their card.
4. well IF we get an injury crisis like that again, hopefully the new manager will get some sort of decent squad. One of my biggest bugbears under MON was the lack of cover and how this seemed to be put down to fate. He got lucky and GH picked up the tab.
So given the above you'd hope next season we'd have an improvement which leaves 3.....
Now you'd hope a lot of his mistakes were due to lack of knowledge of his squad, trying to find a winning formula and experimenting. Hopefully he's the sort of manager who learns from his mistakes rather than taking the MON approach of persevering with a player or tactic thats quite plainly disasterous but becomes an insane compulsion to prove your critics wrong (ie. Heskey and the 'right-back' epic). He Doesn't come across like that to me so i'm hopeful he won't be repeating past mistakes next season.
A lot of 'hopes' in the above but there you go.
-
Way i see it if i sat down and listed the reasons for the relatively bad season i'd put them as follows in order of importance:
1. No decent investment in the summer, bad pre-season, bad fitness regime, ex-manager taking his eye off the ball in a big way.
2. Dissent in the camp, low morale, nutter slagging off the manager, sly gits giving anonymous press briefings and generally acting like twats
3. Manager's bad team selection, playing people out of position etc..
4. the rotten injury list at one point
1. Now, if he stayed that isn't going to happen again.
2. You'd hope any manager worth his salt will ship them out or at the least severely mark their card.
4. well IF we get an injury crisis like that again, hopefully the new manager will get some sort of decent squad. One of my biggest bugbears under MON was the lack of cover and how this seemed to be put down to fate. He got lucky and GH picked up the tab.
So given the above you'd hope next season we'd have an improvement which leaves 3.....
Now you'd hope a lot of his mistakes were due to lack of knowledge of his squad, trying to find a winning formula and experimenting. Hopefully he's the sort of manager who learns from his mistakes rather than taking the MON approach of persevering with a player or tactic thats quite plainly disasterous but becomes an insane compulsion to prove your critics wrong (ie. Heskey and the 'right-back' epic). He Doesn't come across like that to me so i'm hopeful he won't be repeating past mistakes next season.
A lot of 'hopes' in the above but there you go.
Looking at that assesment i like the fact that after a season he now knows where a lot of the weak links are/were. And in Jan he solved the one problem we have had for several years. "a goal scorer." I trust his knowledge and experience. So his position is now a complete gamble of him being ok health wise. Over a relapse. The latter resulting in a total collapse of our club. Surely Lerner will not take this risk when he has a great opportunity to learn from his previous mistakes and bringing back a wow factor which is seriously missing ......
-
I would not wish him any ill health but I do want him to leave now as I don't think he can continue with the pressure that being a EPL manager brings. Having read that he might stay on with a reduced work load could only work if we were persuade every other Premiership manager to do the same!
Had this illness not struck him then I would probably want him to stay on as I believe he was on the right track however we now need someone who is able to continue the work that GH has begun.
I really hope this can be sorted soon, GH have a wonderful retirement after all you have achieved in football you deserve it.
-
Mat kendrick on twitter reporting 2 things.
Medical reports to be studied over coming days.
Board may over rule houllier even if he does want to return.
It's very hard to pick out our strategy at the moment. I'd be more confident if our track record was clearer. I remember when lots of us were getting worried about spiralling wage costs and being tetchily reassured by the general that they knew what they were doing; in hindsight I don't think they did at all!
-
From the events of the last few days one can only deduce the the club are confident in the ability of GH and wish him to continue as manager, provided there is no risk to his health. That would appear to be the strategy.
-
Mat Kendrick on Twitter also reports that an ultimate decision [on GH] is set to be made and announced by Wednesday next week.
-
Mat Kendrick on Twitter also reports that an ultimate decision [on GH] is set to be made and announced by Wednesday next week.
About 10 days after the season ends? That's probably about the right time to act so that the majority of the summer is still infront of us and still not coming across like Chelsea/West Ham style arses.
-
Mat Kendrick on Twitter also reports that an ultimate decision [on GH] is set to be made and announced by Wednesday next week.
I hope that's true, it needs to be quick.
-
From what I've heard and read in the last twenty four hours it seems that even if GH wants to return RL may take that decision out of his hands. Mutterings of concern for his health and the club having a duty of care to the employee seem to be laying a foundation for the powers that be relieving him of his duties 'for his own good'. Best bit of info was that either way we should know by Wednesday.
-
Best bit of info was that either way we should know by Wednesday.
Absolutely, one way or another lets move on!
-
Will the official site put up a countdown clock like they do with the next game......just four days to go before we appoint .......................... Bob Bradley !
-
yeah thats the problem , most people wanting Houlier gone and then Mcclaren and Bradley and Allardice will be fighting for the job.
-
yeah thats the problem , most people wanting Houlier gone and then Mcclaren and Bradley and Allardice will be fighting for the job.
I'd rather have McClaren or Allardyce to be honest.
-
yeah thats the problem , most people wanting Houlier gone and then Mcclaren and Bradley and Allardice will be fighting for the job.
I'd rather have McClaren or Allardyce to be honest.
I know you don't Houllier, and that's fair enough, but now you're going too far.
-
yeah thats the problem , most people wanting Houlier gone and then Mcclaren and Bradley and Allardice will be fighting for the job.
As we're not shopping around five minutes before the start of season we might be looking at slightly better managers than we did last time.
-
yeah thats the problem , most people wanting Houlier gone and then Mcclaren and Bradley and Allardice will be fighting for the job.
I'd rather have McClaren or Allardyce to be honest.
Would you really, though?
Now the question of us going down has passed, you'd still rather have the anti football himself as our manager than Houllier?
I know we had this argument before, and I referred to the fact that you were like me with O'Neill, in hating the horrible football we played under him, and that you said you'd have Allardyce if it stopped us going down.
We've stopped up but you'd still genuinely rather have him? And watch his brand of "football"?
-
yeah thats the problem , most people wanting Houlier gone and then Mcclaren and Bradley and Allardice will be fighting for the job.
I'd rather have McClaren or Allardyce to be honest.
Sweet Jesus, somebody get this man some Prozac.
-
yeah thats the problem , most people wanting Houlier gone and then Mcclaren and Bradley and Allardice will be fighting for the job.
I'd rather have McClaren or Allardyce to be honest.
Would you really, though?
Now the question of us going down has passed, you'd still rather have the anti football himself as our manager than Houllier?
I know we had this argument before, and I referred to the fact that you were like me with O'Neill, in hating the horrible football we played under him, and that you said you'd have Allardyce if it stopped us going down.
We've stopped up but you'd still genuinely rather have him? And watch his brand of "football"?
I'd rather Houllier stay than Allardyce or Mcclaren. I just want the situation resolved asap.
-
I can not believe if we were to be looking at a new manager the same names always crop up. Is it me but for the last 15 years we have been linked with Alan Curbishley? How long has he been out of work and we are still being linked.
-
From the events of the last few days one can only deduce the the club are confident in the ability of GH and wish him to continue as manager, provided there is no risk to his health. That would appear to be the strategy.
I'm not sure that's a fair conclusion to draw. All we've seen is the departure of a bunch of out-of-contract and yound hopefuls leaving the club. Not big decisions.
-
Indeed. From what I understand, all transfers are on hold until the GH situation is resolved.
-
Indeed. From what I understand, all transfers are on hold until the GH situation is resolved.
Which makes sense, but said situation needs to be resolved very quickly.
-
Allardyce is taking over a West Ham according to all the papers.
-
Allardyce is taking over a West Ham according to all the papers.
Well thank fuck for that.
-
good...
lets see how much longer the "good football" myth is trotted out by the media once that deluded potato faced arsehole is in charge of the shammers...
-
if houiller stays then we will sign oscar wendt as our new left back
-
Mirror breaking news that villas medical experts are looking at the results of geds tests from yesterday and a decision is likely by Wednesday on his future. Can't copy and paste as I'm on iPod but would appreciate it if someone could paste the story.
-
I wonder whether the Chelsea vacancy might be to our detriment- Redknapp to Chelsea, Moyes to Spurs?
-
It will just be a re-hash of the story in this mornings Meaning Evil
-
It will just be a re-hash of the story in this mornings Meaning Evil
Most likely. Matt Kendrick has been 'tweeting' the same news since yesterday.
-
Luckily I've a day off on Wednesday so will be glued to the tv waiting for news of the decision one way or the other, at least then we can plan ahead for the summer and look ahead.
-
There are a couple of spanish journos currently tweeting that Quique Sanchez Flores has agreed to join us this afternoon.
Hmmm.
-
Which journos?
-
Punting a name like Quinque Sanchez Flores my guess is they are gardening journalists.
-
Rodrigo Beltran is one. Can't find the other now.
-
I'll buy it. Reasonable record, hungry for success, unproven and most importantly, unshaven.
-
There are a couple of spanish journos currently tweeting that Quique Sanchez Flores has agreed to join us this afternoon.
Hmmm.
Rumour seems to based on family comments. Other rumours are saying he's off to Seville with Benitez replacing him at Atletico Madrid.
-
Well he is certainly in the market for a job. Makes him more likely than other names out there for that reason alone. Don't shoot the messenger!
-
Punting a name like Quinque Sanchez Flores my guess is they are gardening journalists.
Excellent!
-
Luckily I've a day off on Wednesday so will be glued to the tv waiting for news of the decision one way or the other, at least then we can plan ahead for the summer and look ahead.
I've got a day off on Wednesday too. Are you me?
-
I haven't got a day off on Wednesday and would like to add, for the record, that you are a pair of bastards for making me work while you are skiving.
-
There are a couple of spanish journos currently tweeting that Quique Sanchez Flores has agreed to join us this afternoon.
Hmmm.
Rumour seems to based on family comments. Other rumours are saying he's off to Seville with Benitez replacing him at Atletico Madrid.
That makes sense in a way:
Se- ve- ya/ The Vi- lla
Lost in translation?
-
I haven't got a day off on Wednesday and would like to add, for the record, that you are a pair of bastards for making me work while you are skiving.
I've got a day off on Wednesday as well.
-
The point I'm making is one that's not based on his record last season, or his ability, its his physical and mental state that to me says, no can do. Regardless of what these medical blokes say because they are not going to be there on the touch line, when we have our backs to the wall facing some scouse onslaught in a game, needing our manager to be going frantic at the lads to step it up, and he simply can't do it, he can't get involved.
Mr Houllier resigned from Liverpool on health and stepped down from Lyon because of pressure from the chairman for poor performance saying he was exhausted and needed a break.
This heart problem he has is one that is normally congenital (This is a defect in the aorta, the main artery that carries oxygen-rich blood to the body. In a healthy heart, the aorta is attached to the left ventricle. This allows only oxygen-rich blood to flow to the body.
In tetralogy of Fallot, the aorta is between the left and right ventricles, directly over the VSD. As a result, oxygen-poor blood from the right ventricle flows directly into the aorta instead of into the pulmonary artery to the lungs. Problems can occur when a greater flow of a blood/oxygen mix is required beyond the normal flow rate.)
The only point I'm making is, we have got over the MON era and the hangover that gave us, we now need a management team in place with a 5 year plan, the club needs that, the players need that (definably) and I think the fans need it IMO, also, surely Lerner needs it if he is about to invest further countless millions on rebuilding a side that may well be about to be ripped apart in the transfer market, thing is Houllier simply can't do that. IMO.
Excellent post Villanation - concurring.
-
The point I'm making is one that's not based on his record last season, or his ability, its his physical and mental state that to me says, no can do. Regardless of what these medical blokes say because they are not going to be there on the touch line, when we have our backs to the wall facing some scouse onslaught in a game, needing our manager to be going frantic at the lads to step it up, and he simply can't do it, he can't get involved.
Mr Houllier resigned from Liverpool on health and stepped down from Lyon because of pressure from the chairman for poor performance saying he was exhausted and needed a break.
This heart problem he has is one that is normally congenital (This is a defect in the aorta, the main artery that carries oxygen-rich blood to the body. In a healthy heart, the aorta is attached to the left ventricle. This allows only oxygen-rich blood to flow to the body.
In tetralogy of Fallot, the aorta is between the left and right ventricles, directly over the VSD. As a result, oxygen-poor blood from the right ventricle flows directly into the aorta instead of into the pulmonary artery to the lungs. Problems can occur when a greater flow of a blood/oxygen mix is required beyond the normal flow rate.)
The only point I'm making is, we have got over the MON era and the hangover that gave us, we now need a management team in place with a 5 year plan, the club needs that, the players need that (definably) and I think the fans need it IMO, also, surely Lerner needs it if he is about to invest further countless millions on rebuilding a side that may well be about to be ripped apart in the transfer market, thing is Houllier simply can't do that. IMO.
Excellent post Villanation - concurring.
Sounds good, copied directly from the Interweb, (http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/tof/tof_what.html) but sounds good.
-
I'm off on Wednesday too, going to see Fleet Foxes down in That London.
I'll be checking H&V on the train instead of reading "RAPED BY MY GRANDFATHER'S GHOST - AND I'M EXPECTING TWINS" type stories in Take A Break.
-
I had all of next week booked off but as I'm a parasitic public sector worker I cancelled it due to pressure of work caused, in part, by redundancies.
-
See, one thing I really don't understand is this 'reviewing medical reports' stuff.
Houllier came to us (IIRC) after ungoing medical tests and him telling us that 'has never been fitter'.
Then, within 7 months he has his relapse and his long term health is put into question again.
There are now suggestions that his condition is not stress related, and that his profession does not mean he is more or less likely to have another episode.
But, there just has to be a correlation between his relapse and the stresss of the job. It can't be co-incidence, can it ?
Given that, WHATEVER, the latest reports say, even if they come back saying 'Gerard is fitter than a butchers dog' - it will actually mean bugger all, surely.
The risk is always there with Houllier, the board must do the right thing and tell him that he has to step down to try and protect him a little, and to protect the club.
Oh, and I'm working Wednesday.
-
Im off on Wed in Ibiza , will be busy rehearsing for my gig on thursday night. so will have to use my fone to get H&V to find out whats happening... I think G-Hou will be staying .
-
I've got Monday and Tuesday off, but not Wednesday. I'm so upset.
-
The point I'm making is one that's not based on his record last season, or his ability, its his physical and mental state that to me says, no can do. Regardless of what these medical blokes say because they are not going to be there on the touch line, when we have our backs to the wall facing some scouse onslaught in a game, needing our manager to be going frantic at the lads to step it up, and he simply can't do it, he can't get involved.
Mr Houllier resigned from Liverpool on health and stepped down from Lyon because of pressure from the chairman for poor performance saying he was exhausted and needed a break.
This heart problem he has is one that is normally congenital (This is a defect in the aorta, the main artery that carries oxygen-rich blood to the body. In a healthy heart, the aorta is attached to the left ventricle. This allows only oxygen-rich blood to flow to the body.
In tetralogy of Fallot, the aorta is between the left and right ventricles, directly over the VSD. As a result, oxygen-poor blood from the right ventricle flows directly into the aorta instead of into the pulmonary artery to the lungs. Problems can occur when a greater flow of a blood/oxygen mix is required beyond the normal flow rate.)
The only point I'm making is, we have got over the MON era and the hangover that gave us, we now need a management team in place with a 5 year plan, the club needs that, the players need that (definably) and I think the fans need it IMO, also, surely Lerner needs it if he is about to invest further countless millions on rebuilding a side that may well be about to be ripped apart in the transfer market, thing is Houllier simply can't do that. IMO.
Excellent post Villanation - concurring.
Sounds good, copied directly from the Interweb, (http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/tof/tof_what.html) but sounds good.
Couldn't agree more. It's exactly what we need....a bit of stability...players are more likely to stay/join if they know what's going on!
-
See, one thing I really don't understand is this 'reviewing medical reports' stuff.
Houllier came to us (IIRC) after ungoing medical tests and him telling us that 'has never been fitter'.
Then, within 7 months he has his relapse and his long term health is put into question again.
There are now suggestions that his condition is not stress related, and that his profession does not mean he is more or less likely to have another episode.
But, there just has to be a correlation between his relapse and the stresss of the job. It can't be co-incidence, can it ?
Given that, WHATEVER, the latest reports say, even if they come back saying 'Gerard is fitter than a butchers dog' - it will actually mean bugger all, surely.
The risk is always there with Houllier, the board must do the right thing and tell him that he has to step down to try and protect him a little, and to protect the club.
Oh, and I'm working Wednesday.
You couldn't be more right andyh!
Surley Lerner needs to put the club's interests (and all that that involves: players, fans, the business!) above any individual. It's a shame GH is ill, but he is, so let's get on with building for the future by making the decisions NOW!
And I've got all bloody week off!!!!
Off to VP today to get my two boys screened for (IRONICALLY!!!) heart problems and calling to the Clearance tent...will NRC be there?
-
Wednesday cannot come around quick enough.
The continued vacuum whether real or not is leaving the press to run riot.
We need a leader/spokesman for the club now.
Sunday Express saying Darreen Bent will have to consider his future at Aston Villa if Downing and Young leave.
-
I'm confused ! Does he have tetralogy of fallot ? This is a birth defect.
My understanding was that he has an aortic aneurysm and a previous surgery when at Liverpoo for an aortic dissection of an aneurysm.
I work in an intensive care unit here in the U.S and frequently take care of patients with aortic aneurysms and/or dissections. When explaining the condition to families and patients I use an inner tube of a bicycle wheel as a comparison to the Aorta. If an area of the "inner tube" weakens a bulge will appear. This bulging area obviously is not only already weakened but is now under more pressure and is at great risk of rupturing. A factor in the area of the inner tube becoming weak is that possibly there was too much air in the tire (or in the case of the Aorta - high blood pressure). The high blood pressure adds pressure to the weakened area and management of blood pressure is the primary treatment for aortic aneurysm. If blood pressure management does not work the there is a further risk of dissection (see surgery at Liverpoo).
While the aneurysm maybe controllable and Mr Houlliers associates are talking about him getting a clean bill of health, this in my opinion is the difference between telling the owner of a bicycle that it would be okay for a ride around the park once a week versus riding in the tour de france which is football management.
I had a minor surgery last week and I am off work until july the 3rd
-
I'd rather be at work than watching SSN all day.
-
I'd rather be at work than watching SSN all day.
Too right, brain rot right there. It's not as if by watching it will change the decision or make it come any sooner.
-
I'm confused ! Does he have tetralogy of fallot ? This is a birth defect.
My understanding was that he has an aortic aneurysm and a previous surgery when at Liverpoo for an aortic dissection of an aneurysm.
I work in an intensive care unit here in the U.S and frequently take care of patients with aortic aneurysms and/or dissections. When explaining the condition to families and patients I use an inner tube of a bicycle wheel as a comparison to the Aorta. If an area of the "inner tube" weakens a bulge will appear. This bulging area obviously is not only already weakened but is now under more pressure and is at great risk of rupturing. A factor in the area of the inner tube becoming weak is that possibly there was too much air in the tire (or in the case of the Aorta - high blood pressure). The high blood pressure adds pressure to the weakened area and management of blood pressure is the primary treatment for aortic aneurysm. If blood pressure management does not work the there is a further risk of dissection (see surgery at Liverpoo).
While the aneurysm maybe controllable and Mr Houlliers associates are talking about him getting a clean bill of health, this in my opinion is the difference between telling the owner of a bicycle that it would be okay for a ride around the park once a week versus riding in the tour de france which is football management.
I had a minor surgery last week and I am off work until july the 3rd
Excellent post. It's been bad enough reading all the ill informed posts referring to GH's "heart problem" as if he's going to keel over any minute with a heart attack when it's nothing to do with myocardial infarction, but confusing a dissected aorta with a tetralogy of fallot is really not very helpful. It's easy enough to look it up. Just type "Aortic dissection" into wiki and Bob's your uncle.
-
Fuck me, I don't need a fucking dissertation on fucking heart disease.
If his doctors say he can carry on, then whatever the interweb H&V experts say I assume he can carry on, they were the buggers who did the operation after all.
-
Fuck me, I don't need a fucking dissertation on fucking heart disease.
If his doctors say he can carry on, then whatever the interweb H&V experts say I assume he can carry on, they were the buggers who did the operation after all.
Careful now its this type of reaction that could give you a Aortic dissection.
-
Fuck me, I don't need a fucking dissertation on fucking heart disease.
If his doctors say he can carry on, then whatever the interweb H&V experts say I assume he can carry on, they were the buggers who did the operation after all.
Careful now its this type of reaction that could give you a Aortic dissection.
...... or more likely a myocardial infarction.
-
Fuck me, I don't need a fucking dissertation on fucking heart disease.
If his doctors say he can carry on, then whatever the interweb H&V experts say I assume he can carry on, they were the buggers who did the operation after all.
Fuck a duck, you'll blow a gasket ya stoopid fucking fucker.
-
H&V experts leaving it to the professionals ? now there's a first.
-
H&V experts leaving it to the professionals ? now there's a first.
Leaving if to the professionals ?
What the hell do they know ?
-
While our lenghty debate about GH's health is essentially irrelevant it does demonstrate how the current period of limbo leads to endless speculation and rumour-mongering. You can bet the players are doing the same. I know they don't care in the same way that we do but they will undoubtedly have an interest in who they are playing for/asking for a transfer request. In light of this I'm not sure why the delay till Wednesday. I'm hoping it is to do with contract clauses kicking in, notice periods or something and that the announcement on Wed 1 Jun will be au revoir Gerard and hello.... someone else.
-
While our lenghty debate about GH's health is essentially irrelevant it does demonstrate how the current period of limbo leads to endless speculation and rumour-mongering. You can bet the players are doing the same. I know they don't care in the same way that we do but they will undoubtedly have an interest in who they are playing for/asking for a transfer request. In light of this I'm not sure why the delay till Wednesday. I'm hoping it is to do with contract clauses kicking in, notice periods or something and that the announcement on Wed 1 Jun will be au revoir Gerard and hello.... someone else.
I wouldn't be surprised at that, they've had long enough to work on it.
-
While our lenghty debate about GH's health is essentially irrelevant it does demonstrate how the current period of limbo leads to endless speculation and rumour-mongering. You can bet the players are doing the same. I know they don't care in the same way that we do but they will undoubtedly have an interest in who they are playing for/asking for a transfer request. In light of this I'm not sure why the delay till Wednesday. I'm hoping it is to do with contract clauses kicking in, notice periods or something and that the announcement on Wed 1 Jun will be au revoir Gerard and hello.... someone else.
I wouldn't be surprised at that, they've had long enough to work on it.
The season ended a week ago.
-
While our lenghty debate about GH's health is essentially irrelevant it does demonstrate how the current period of limbo leads to endless speculation and rumour-mongering. You can bet the players are doing the same. I know they don't care in the same way that we do but they will undoubtedly have an interest in who they are playing for/asking for a transfer request. In light of this I'm not sure why the delay till Wednesday. I'm hoping it is to do with contract clauses kicking in, notice periods or something and that the announcement on Wed 1 Jun will be au revoir Gerard and hello.... someone else.
I wouldn't be surprised at that, they've had long enough to work on it.
The season ended a week ago.
That's true but I'm assuming they expected that and were preparing for what needed to be done after it happened.
-
While our lenghty debate about GH's health is essentially irrelevant it does demonstrate how the current period of limbo leads to endless speculation and rumour-mongering. You can bet the players are doing the same. I know they don't care in the same way that we do but they will undoubtedly have an interest in who they are playing for/asking for a transfer request. In light of this I'm not sure why the delay till Wednesday. I'm hoping it is to do with contract clauses kicking in, notice periods or something and that the announcement on Wed 1 Jun will be au revoir Gerard and hello.... someone else.
I wouldn't be surprised at that, they've had long enough to work on it.
The season ended a week ago.
That's true but I'm assuming they expected that and were preparing for what needed to be done after it happened.
I'm sure they were, and they have. They've had to balance running the Villa with the need not to be seen to do anything unseemly. I would imagine that if there was the slightest suspicion Ged was being pushed out unwillingly because of illness, they would be wide open to all sorts of claims.
-
While our lenghty debate about GH's health is essentially irrelevant it does demonstrate how the current period of limbo leads to endless speculation and rumour-mongering. You can bet the players are doing the same. I know they don't care in the same way that we do but they will undoubtedly have an interest in who they are playing for/asking for a transfer request. In light of this I'm not sure why the delay till Wednesday. I'm hoping it is to do with contract clauses kicking in, notice periods or something and that the announcement on Wed 1 Jun will be au revoir Gerard and hello.... someone else.
I wouldn't be surprised at that, they've had long enough to work on it.
The season ended a week ago.
That's true but I'm assuming they expected that and were preparing for what needed to be done after it happened.
I'm sure they were, and they have. They've had to balance running the Villa with the need not to be seen to do anything unseemly. I would imagine that if there was the slightest suspicion Ged was being pushed out unwillingly because of illness, they would be wide open to all sorts of claims.
If there is a danger of that then I suppose they'll have to blame the God-awful job he's done. Not many would seriously question that as a reason.
-
If there is a danger of that then I suppose they'll have to blame the God-awful job he's done. Not many would seriously question that as a reason.
9th place given O'Neill's walk out and the worst injury crisis I've ever seen. Plus the signing of the best striker we could have hoped to get and a pretty decent end to the season.
There you go, I've seriously questioned that Hotlips did a "God-awful job".
-
General's thread only, please.
I think we all need to be patient - as hard as that is.
-
I have a soft spot for persons with a heart condition. The atmosphere surrounding them is pretty cosy. And I like the idea of GH glowering at the players in half-time while GM tells them off.
-
The club said it would be resolved within two weeks of the end of the season, we're only halfway through that time and I have no reason to believe they will not honour their pledge.
-
The point I'm making is one that's not based on his record last season, or his ability, its his physical and mental state that to me says, no can do. Regardless of what these medical blokes say because they are not going to be there on the touch line, when we have our backs to the wall facing some scouse onslaught in a game, needing our manager to be going frantic at the lads to step it up, and he simply can't do it, he can't get involved.
Mr Houllier resigned from Liverpool on health and stepped down from Lyon because of pressure from the chairman for poor performance saying he was exhausted and needed a break.
This heart problem he has is one that is normally congenital (This is a defect in the aorta, the main artery that carries oxygen-rich blood to the body. In a healthy heart, the aorta is attached to the left ventricle. This allows only oxygen-rich blood to flow to the body.
In tetralogy of Fallot, the aorta is between the left and right ventricles, directly over the VSD. As a result, oxygen-poor blood from the right ventricle flows directly into the aorta instead of into the pulmonary artery to the lungs. Problems can occur when a greater flow of a blood/oxygen mix is required beyond the normal flow rate.)
The only point I'm making is, we have got over the MON era and the hangover that gave us, we now need a management team in place with a 5 year plan, the club needs that, the players need that (definably) and I think the fans need it IMO, also, surely Lerner needs it if he is about to invest further countless millions on rebuilding a side that may well be about to be ripped apart in the transfer market, thing is Houllier simply can't do that. IMO.
Excellent post Villanation - concurring.
Sounds good, copied directly from the Interweb, (http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/tof/tof_what.html) but sounds good.
I am a 5Th year med, specializing in Vascular surgery and hoping to qualify with honours in that field, I do know a tad about it, not much mind ;)
Villa fans are allowed a brain...... 8)
-
The point I'm making is one that's not based on his record last season, or his ability, its his physical and mental state that to me says, no can do. Regardless of what these medical blokes say because they are not going to be there on the touch line, when we have our backs to the wall facing some scouse onslaught in a game, needing our manager to be going frantic at the lads to step it up, and he simply can't do it, he can't get involved.
Mr Houllier resigned from Liverpool on health and stepped down from Lyon because of pressure from the chairman for poor performance saying he was exhausted and needed a break.
This heart problem he has is one that is normally congenital (This is a defect in the aorta, the main artery that carries oxygen-rich blood to the body. In a healthy heart, the aorta is attached to the left ventricle. This allows only oxygen-rich blood to flow to the body.
In tetralogy of Fallot, the aorta is between the left and right ventricles, directly over the VSD. As a result, oxygen-poor blood from the right ventricle flows directly into the aorta instead of into the pulmonary artery to the lungs. Problems can occur when a greater flow of a blood/oxygen mix is required beyond the normal flow rate.)
The only point I'm making is, we have got over the MON era and the hangover that gave us, we now need a management team in place with a 5 year plan, the club needs that, the players need that (definably) and I think the fans need it IMO, also, surely Lerner needs it if he is about to invest further countless millions on rebuilding a side that may well be about to be ripped apart in the transfer market, thing is Houllier simply can't do that. IMO.
Excellent post Villanation - concurring.
Sounds good, copied directly from the Interweb, (http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/tof/tof_what.html) but sounds good.
I am a 5Th year med, specializing in Vascular surgery and hoping to qualify with honours in that field, I do know a tad about it, not much mind ;)
Villa fans are allowed a brain...... 8)
Good to hear, so perhaps you would clear something up that's puzzling me. Why when all the reports that I've seen concerning GH's condition have stated that he was suffering from aortic dissection, do you say that his condition is now tetralogy of Fallot? Are they related or does one condition pre-dispose to another? Genuinely curious.
-
To be fair the 1st of June gives plenty of time to get an appointment sorted and new players in. I mean it's not like we are delaying a decision until 9th of August or some similar ridiculously late point.
-
The point I'm making is one that's not based on his record last season, or his ability, its his physical and mental state that to me says, no can do. Regardless of what these medical blokes say because they are not going to be there on the touch line, when we have our backs to the wall facing some scouse onslaught in a game, needing our manager to be going frantic at the lads to step it up, and he simply can't do it, he can't get involved.
Mr Houllier resigned from Liverpool on health and stepped down from Lyon because of pressure from the chairman for poor performance saying he was exhausted and needed a break.
This heart problem he has is one that is normally congenital (This is a defect in the aorta, the main artery that carries oxygen-rich blood to the body. In a healthy heart, the aorta is attached to the left ventricle. This allows only oxygen-rich blood to flow to the body.
In tetralogy of Fallot, the aorta is between the left and right ventricles, directly over the VSD. As a result, oxygen-poor blood from the right ventricle flows directly into the aorta instead of into the pulmonary artery to the lungs. Problems can occur when a greater flow of a blood/oxygen mix is required beyond the normal flow rate.)
The only point I'm making is, we have got over the MON era and the hangover that gave us, we now need a management team in place with a 5 year plan, the club needs that, the players need that (definably) and I think the fans need it IMO, also, surely Lerner needs it if he is about to invest further countless millions on rebuilding a side that may well be about to be ripped apart in the transfer market, thing is Houllier simply can't do that. IMO.
Excellent post Villanation - concurring.
Sounds good, copied directly from the Interweb, (http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/tof/tof_what.html) but sounds good.
I am a 5Th year med, specializing in Vascular surgery and hoping to qualify with honours in that field, I do know a tad about it, not much mind ;)
Villa fans are allowed a brain...... 8)
Good to hear, so perhaps you would clear something up that's puzzling me. Why when all the reports that I've seen concerning GH's condition have stated that he was suffering from aortic dissection, do you say that his condition is now tetralogy of Fallot? Are they related or does one condition pre-dispose to another? Genuinely curious.
I'm assuming he as already undergone tetralogy of fallot in correction as the option taken up for what I assume would be a congenital heart problem, if GH has exhibited progressive aortic root dilatation which may lead to reguritation and predispose to dissection and rupture which can be fatal, but very unlikely in GH's case, thus necessitating aortic valve and aortic root surgery.
What may have happened is a kind of overload of the of the ventricle pass and that could have caused the problem to reoccur, I did mention the administration of beta blockers previously but this is questionable as to its success. Hope this help, I'm a wizard with in-growing toe nails ;)
Next patient please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
-
In English, please?
-
In English, please?
Fair enough............................
He's frickin Knackered.... ::)
-
If its of any consequence, a mate of mine who was involved in Houllier`s initial Op said he should bloody well retire and enjoy the rest of his life !!
-
If its of any consequence, a mate of mine who was involved in Houllier`s initial Op said he should bloody well retire and enjoy the rest of his life !!
Ambulance driver? (winky)
-
From The Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1392482/Aston-Villa-boss-Gerard-Houllier-faces-final-test-5m-pay-off.html?):
Aston Villa boss Gerard Houllier faces final test over £5m pay-off
Gerard Houllier is one medical test away from giving Aston Villa owner Randy Lerner a £5million problem.
Villa’s manager has been given the all-clear to return to work by three out of four independent examinations following his heart problems.
A clean bill of health in his final check-up will leave Lerner unable to terminate Houllier’s deal on the grounds of ill-health, which would have led to a far smaller pay-out.
Aware of Villa fans dislike of Houllier, if the American decides to axe the former Liverpool boss he is due a £5m pay-out in a deal struck less than 12 months ago.
Lerner has only just ended his dispute with former manager Martin O’Neill following a Premier League arbitration panel decision.
-
Only the drama queens 'dislike' him. Oh and those that still haven't got over the fact that the c**t has gone. The rest of us are still open minded.
-
I'll be very surprised if he is still our manager this time next week.
-
I'll be very surprised if he's still our manager this week, Paulie.
-
Only the drama queens 'dislike' him. Oh and those that still haven't got over the fact that the c**t has gone. The rest of us are still open minded.
I don't like him. Having been too 38 games this season I'm certainly not a drama queen. Nor do I give a shit about O'neill. I just want a manager that thinks were better than 12th.
-
Only the drama queens 'dislike' him. Oh and those that still haven't got over the fact that the c**t has gone. The rest of us are still open minded.
I don't like him. Having been too 38 games this season I'm certainly not a drama queen. Nor do I give a shit about O'neill. I just want a manager that thinks were better than 12th.
Find me a manager who doesn't.
-
The point I'm making is one that's not based on his record last season, or his ability, its his physical and mental state that to me says, no can do. Regardless of what these medical blokes say because they are not going to be there on the touch line, when we have our backs to the wall facing some scouse onslaught in a game, needing our manager to be going frantic at the lads to step it up, and he simply can't do it, he can't get involved.
Mr Houllier resigned from Liverpool on health and stepped down from Lyon because of pressure from the chairman for poor performance saying he was exhausted and needed a break.
This heart problem he has is one that is normally congenital (This is a defect in the aorta, the main artery that carries oxygen-rich blood to the body. In a healthy heart, the aorta is attached to the left ventricle. This allows only oxygen-rich blood to flow to the body.
In tetralogy of Fallot, the aorta is between the left and right ventricles, directly over the VSD. As a result, oxygen-poor blood from the right ventricle flows directly into the aorta instead of into the pulmonary artery to the lungs. Problems can occur when a greater flow of a blood/oxygen mix is required beyond the normal flow rate.)
The only point I'm making is, we have got over the MON era and the hangover that gave us, we now need a management team in place with a 5 year plan, the club needs that, the players need that (definably) and I think the fans need it IMO, also, surely Lerner needs it if he is about to invest further countless millions on rebuilding a side that may well be about to be ripped apart in the transfer market, thing is Houllier simply can't do that. IMO.
Excellent post Villanation - concurring.
Sounds good, copied directly from the Interweb, (http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/tof/tof_what.html) but sounds good.
I am a 5Th year med, specializing in Vascular surgery and hoping to qualify with honours in that field, I do know a tad about it, not much mind ;)
Villa fans are allowed a brain...... 8)
Really? You must be on some super secret course then because I was pretty certain you don't specialise until after your 2nd foundation year FY2. Baring in mind that speciality has a 1/20 success rate of getting accepted onto a program, you are a long way from being a vascular surgeon and at the moment a generic 5th year med student with no extra knowledge of vascular surgery.
-
According to a Matt McKendrick tweet, Houllier has left Villa.
Mutual consent.
"Gerard Houllier leaves #avfc by mutual consent. Read today's Birmingham Mail exclusive for full story"
-
No surprise and I'm sure he goes with everyone's best wishes for his health and his future.
-
According to a Matt McKendrick tweet, Houllier has left Villa.
Mutual consent.
"Gerard Houllier leaves #avfc by mutual consent. Read today's Birmingham Mail exclusive for full story"
Just popped in to say that! Interesting times ahead, then. Again.
-
I'd be happy with a bit of mundanity for a while to be honest. Last season was a bit too bloody 'interesting' for my liking
-
A little bird told me that this was the way it would end about two months ago.
-
If there is a danger of that then I suppose they'll have to blame the God-awful job he's done. Not many would seriously question that as a reason.
9th place given O'Neill's walk out and the worst injury crisis I've ever seen. Plus the signing of the best striker we could have hoped to get and a pretty decent end to the season.
There you go, I've seriously questioned that Hotlips did a "God-awful job".
I give him little credit for the few good things from that horrendous season, maybe a bit for signing Bent. I think we'd have been better without a manager.
Highlights?
West Ham at home, Arsenal away, Chelsea away, which followed a team meeting independent of the manager during which, according to Friedel, the players decided to pull their fingers out.
Lowlights? Virtually every minute from when he took over from KMac until GMac took over.
-
The point I'm making is one that's not based on his record last season, or his ability, its his physical and mental state that to me says, no can do. Regardless of what these medical blokes say because they are not going to be there on the touch line, when we have our backs to the wall facing some scouse onslaught in a game, needing our manager to be going frantic at the lads to step it up, and he simply can't do it, he can't get involved.
Mr Houllier resigned from Liverpool on health and stepped down from Lyon because of pressure from the chairman for poor performance saying he was exhausted and needed a break.
This heart problem he has is one that is normally congenital (This is a defect in the aorta, the main artery that carries oxygen-rich blood to the body. In a healthy heart, the aorta is attached to the left ventricle. This allows only oxygen-rich blood to flow to the body.
In tetralogy of Fallot, the aorta is between the left and right ventricles, directly over the VSD. As a result, oxygen-poor blood from the right ventricle flows directly into the aorta instead of into the pulmonary artery to the lungs. Problems can occur when a greater flow of a blood/oxygen mix is required beyond the normal flow rate.)
The only point I'm making is, we have got over the MON era and the hangover that gave us, we now need a management team in place with a 5 year plan, the club needs that, the players need that (definably) and I think the fans need it IMO, also, surely Lerner needs it if he is about to invest further countless millions on rebuilding a side that may well be about to be ripped apart in the transfer market, thing is Houllier simply can't do that. IMO.
Excellent post Villanation - concurring.
Sounds good, copied directly from the Interweb, (http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/tof/tof_what.html) but sounds good.
I am a 5Th year med, specializing in Vascular surgery and hoping to qualify with honours in that field, I do know a tad about it, not much mind ;)
Villa fans are allowed a brain...... 8)
Really? You must be on some super secret course then because I was pretty certain you don't specialise until after your 2nd foundation year FY2. Baring in mind that speciality has a 1/20 success rate of getting accepted onto a program, you are a long way from being a vascular surgeon and at the moment a generic 5th year med student with no extra knowledge of vascular surgery.
Its a fackin joke slaphead..........notice the wink emote on every post ffs.
-
Chill.
-
Chill.
My point exactly....read previous post.
-
The point I'm making is one that's not based on his record last season, or his ability, its his physical and mental state that to me says, no can do. Regardless of what these medical blokes say because they are not going to be there on the touch line, when we have our backs to the wall facing some scouse onslaught in a game, needing our manager to be going frantic at the lads to step it up, and he simply can't do it, he can't get involved.
Mr Houllier resigned from Liverpool on health and stepped down from Lyon because of pressure from the chairman for poor performance saying he was exhausted and needed a break.
This heart problem he has is one that is normally congenital (This is a defect in the aorta, the main artery that carries oxygen-rich blood to the body. In a healthy heart, the aorta is attached to the left ventricle. This allows only oxygen-rich blood to flow to the body.
In tetralogy of Fallot, the aorta is between the left and right ventricles, directly over the VSD. As a result, oxygen-poor blood from the right ventricle flows directly into the aorta instead of into the pulmonary artery to the lungs. Problems can occur when a greater flow of a blood/oxygen mix is required beyond the normal flow rate.)
The only point I'm making is, we have got over the MON era and the hangover that gave us, we now need a management team in place with a 5 year plan, the club needs that, the players need that (definably) and I think the fans need it IMO, also, surely Lerner needs it if he is about to invest further countless millions on rebuilding a side that may well be about to be ripped apart in the transfer market, thing is Houllier simply can't do that. IMO.
Excellent post Villanation - concurring.
Sounds good, copied directly from the Interweb, (http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/tof/tof_what.html) but sounds good.
I am a 5Th year med, specializing in Vascular surgery and hoping to qualify with honours in that field, I do know a tad about it, not much mind ;)
Villa fans are allowed a brain...... 8)
Really? You must be on some super secret course then because I was pretty certain you don't specialise until after your 2nd foundation year FY2. Baring in mind that speciality has a 1/20 success rate of getting accepted onto a program, you are a long way from being a vascular surgeon and at the moment a generic 5th year med student with no extra knowledge of vascular surgery.
Houllier would have been operated on by a cardiac surgeon, not a vascular surgeon... for the record.
-
Chill.
My point exactly....read previous post.
Your humour is well above the head's of most people on here.
-
Butcher's apostrophe again, Mr. Cooper.
-
The point I'm making is one that's not based on his record last season, or his ability, its his physical and mental state that to me says, no can do. Regardless of what these medical blokes say because they are not going to be there on the touch line, when we have our backs to the wall facing some scouse onslaught in a game, needing our manager to be going frantic at the lads to step it up, and he simply can't do it, he can't get involved.
Mr Houllier resigned from Liverpool on health and stepped down from Lyon because of pressure from the chairman for poor performance saying he was exhausted and needed a break.
This heart problem he has is one that is normally congenital (This is a defect in the aorta, the main artery that carries oxygen-rich blood to the body. In a healthy heart, the aorta is attached to the left ventricle. This allows only oxygen-rich blood to flow to the body.
In tetralogy of Fallot, the aorta is between the left and right ventricles, directly over the VSD. As a result, oxygen-poor blood from the right ventricle flows directly into the aorta instead of into the pulmonary artery to the lungs. Problems can occur when a greater flow of a blood/oxygen mix is required beyond the normal flow rate.)
The only point I'm making is, we have got over the MON era and the hangover that gave us, we now need a management team in place with a 5 year plan, the club needs that, the players need that (definably) and I think the fans need it IMO, also, surely Lerner needs it if he is about to invest further countless millions on rebuilding a side that may well be about to be ripped apart in the transfer market, thing is Houllier simply can't do that. IMO.
Excellent post Villanation - concurring.
Sounds good, copied directly from the Interweb, (http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/tof/tof_what.html) but sounds good.
I am a 5Th year med, specializing in Vascular surgery and hoping to qualify with honours in that field, I do know a tad about it, not much mind ;)
Villa fans are allowed a brain...... 8)
Really? You must be on some super secret course then because I was pretty certain you don't specialise until after your 2nd foundation year FY2. Baring in mind that speciality has a 1/20 success rate of getting accepted onto a program, you are a long way from being a vascular surgeon and at the moment a generic 5th year med student with no extra knowledge of vascular surgery.
Houllier would have been operated on by a cardiac surgeon, not a vascular surgeon... for the record.
Cheers, thanks for that, its just as well they didn't recruit my expertise on the team involved then.
-
Houllier would have been operated on by a cardiac surgeon, not a vascular surgeon... for the record
Heskey is usually operated on by a tree surgeon...for the record
-
Houllier would have been operated on by a cardiac surgeon, not a vascular surgeon... for the record
Heskey is usually operated on by a tree surgeon...for the record
No, you are getting mixed up with a vet !
-
Butcher's apostrophe again, Mr. Cooper.
Does that differ from a grocer's apostrophe?
-
It does where I live.
-
Butcher's apostrophe again, Mr. Cooper.
Darn.