The future of Houllier and McAllister?

[Greg N'Ash]

aye. point stands though.

Are you trying  to suggest that  Houllier has done the best that he possibly could? That none of this pig's ear of a season is down to him?

It's a distraction and not helpful for you to keep bringing MON into it. Houllier should be judged on his own performance and we have a right to expect better.

GH has made plenty of mistakes. I doubt even his biggest supporter would claim otherwise, BUT to blindly go around saying this is a top 6th side because thats where it finished the last few seasons is daft. Yes, we've done less well than under MON and this side would probably have finished higher playing MON's patent hoofball and with none of the off the pitch distractions but I dispute this team would have finished 6th this coming season if MON had stayed in charge. Add in the injury problems GH has suffered and i reckon we'd be 6 points better off at best.

[Shrek]

Well we will never know, because MON jumped ship as soon as he never got his own way.

[holtepaul]

I honestly cant believe people are coming up with all kinds of excuses for this season.

Unfortunately, we WERE a top six side - that is a 100% undeniable fact. We hadn'r just finished top 6 last season, we did it the season before, and we did it the season before that as well. Then I hear the "the players are too old" - que ? - who is too old ? - because I have just seen a team win the league with a goalie older than ours , two midfielders 3 yrs older than any of our outfield players (bar Pires). Our players are NOT too old - and if they are, why have we offerred the oldest one a new contract ?

And then we have the injuries - we had absolute horrendous injuries in October and November that is no doubt.

However am I imaging this or did the players threaten to walk out because they had told the management the new "fitness regime" was not working and they wouldn't listen>

Oh - just seem team for today - much better than the predictions

We then have the positional play. Now you cant blame Houllier for young in the middle - as MON also did it - but when he does - who does he put on the wing - Agbonlahor ? - even though Downing is a left winger and Albrighton is a right winger - no , he puts Gabby, a right footed centre forward on the left wing - and then wonders why it didn't work.

Listen , Houllier may come back in July, but a couple more players and turn us into Barcelona - winning every game - he could do - no one knows what will happen next year.

But this year - don't try and convince me it has been OK, and the management haven't made a total balls up of it - because it is plainly obvious it has been crap - and they have !

[ozzjim]

MON is the main reason this club has been in turmoil this season. And turmoil is the main reason we have struggled.
I cant believe anybody thinks otherwise.

Far too simplistic.

MON was not to blame for the inept, insipid, toothless display last week, for example. We've got a lot of good players but too many times the whole does not equal the sum of the parts. That's down to the managers not making the most of what they have at their dspsal.

It's not too simplistic. O'Neill is the main reason the club was/is in turmoil. I can't believe that can be argued.

The inspid display last week is part due to McAllister being a poor manager and the team with too many gobshites that MON bought.
Obviously I'm not absolving the current management team of any blame. That would be silly.
But when I see people basically saying what's tantamount to "forget MON now, it's nothing to do with him..." its fucking bollocks.
It will take years possibly to rectify the damage he's done to this club.

For the record, I hope a completely new management team in the summer but not as much as I want rid of all the parasitic, gutless, unprofessional wasters that are draining our resources and mugging us off with substandard performances. Or are simply not good enough.

Totally agree, sums it all up nicely.

[holtepaul]

Can you enlighten me

Who are these gobshites you talk about ? please name them coz I cant

[Chris Smith]

aye. point stands though.

Are you trying  to suggest that  Houllier has done the best that he possibly could? That none of this pig's ear of a season is down to him?

It's a distraction and not helpful for you to keep bringing MON into it. Houllier should be judged on his own performance and we have a right to expect better.

GH has made plenty of mistakes. I doubt even his biggest supporter would claim otherwise, BUT to blindly go around saying this is a top 6th side because thats where it finished the last few seasons is daft. Yes, we've done less well than under MON and this side would probably have finished higher playing MON's patent hoofball and with none of the off the pitch distractions but I dispute this team would have finished 6th this coming season if MON had stayed in charge. Add in the injury problems GH has suffered and i reckon we'd be 6 points better off at best.

Nobody has claimed that you numpty. I said if he'd been allowed to spend then I'd have fancied us for sixth, without that I reckon we'd be around eighth - you can't tell me that Everton, Stoke or Bolton have a better team than us.

[holtepaul]

For those who want Wilkins - I'd take him......

only for the fact it would get him off Sky Sports as a pundit - he's bloody awful !

[Greg N'Ash]

we WERE a top 6 side. we lost that as soon as milner went and wasn't replaced. Also, It was obvious to anyone with eyes last season that the likes of petrov were struggling to continue to play MON's high tempo way for 90 minutes. players get old, fact of life and with or without MON in change, Petrov's performance level was declining. Factor in Dunne's summer spent in Gregg's - nothing to do with GH  - would MON have played him? or maybe the sheer inspiration of playing for MON would have negated the fact he was carrying around 3 spare tyres............

[TheSandman]

I think it is utterly facile to blame Houllier entirely for the way things are. Our players are for the most part total c***s as was our ex-manager for walking out. When you see people earning more than we can dream of behaving like our ex-manager and players then it shows what a sack of shit football and our team has become. I cannot believe some people (and I am speaking about one or two people who have actually stated this utterly ridiculous statement) actually believe the players should be absolved of all blame! Fuck me! Most fans of this club don't earn 1/3 in a year of what ****** like Dunne get in a week. Indeed there are people who support Villa who can't get or are losing their jobs and struggling to get by. Why the hell should people who are earning so much be so unprofessional and act like spoiled kids? No one should be absolved from blame for this ****** of a season from the board to the management to the players and to the former management. Some more than others but still many are to blame.

But, the fact remains despite all the mitigation that Houllier has made too many mistakes, too many poor decisions and done so many infuriating things that I hope he is out the door not much far behind some of our players. If you look at the stats like some of the ones Bazz has posted you do see it has probably not been as bad as some people on here have made out and I admit I am one of the people who have been thinking that way. We have gained more points than many other teams in the second half of the season but it has not been good this season IMO.

[holtepaul]

we WERE a top 6 side. we lost that as soon as milner went and wasn't replaced. Also, It was obvious to anyone with eyes last season that the likes of petrov were struggling to continue to play MON's high tempo way for 90 minutes. players get old, fact of life and with or without MON in change, Petrov's performance level was declining. Factor in Dunne's summer spent in Gregg's - nothing to do with GH  - would MON have played him? or maybe the sheer inspiration of playing for MON would have negated the fact he was carrying around 3 spare tyres............

OK , so you say it was plainly obvious to one and all that Petrov can't cope .

So can I ask why Houllier has bought not one but TWO central midfielders AND PETROV IS STILL IN THE SIDE

INCLUDING TODAY WHEN MAKOUN AND BRADLEY ARE ON THE BENCH

Or, has Houllier a) made a mistake and Petrov has still got enough

or

b) He has just bought (or in one case it depends what you believe whether it is bought, loan or loan to buy) two players that are not good enough for the league.

Wierd really isnt it !

[Greg N'Ash]

simple. GH isn't asking petrov to play MON's way

[Somniloquism]

simple. GH isn't asking petrov to play MON's way

I would argue we have recently. The two wins against West Ham and Newcastle were played with a 4-4-2 and also recently we have started the same way under GMac.

[Fergal]

O'Neill leaving didn't help matters, but Houllier has made enough absolute howlers himself to make me think that even if he gets another two years, he'll be just as useless.  Dropping Cuellar after a great performance, for the abject Dunne, persisting with Young as a forward, playing Gabby out wide, chucking in the towel at Man City - the hallmarks of a manager way, way past his best, which is what I thought he was when he arrived.

In addition at this age and with his health history he is not one for the long term.

[holtepaul]

Again

I am going to say it

So someone has just mentioned Richard Dunne as a you know what.

Is this the same Richard Dunne who got 2nd in the player of the year in our best season for 30 yrs and got into the Premier team of the year ?

Is this the same Richard Dunne who is sooooooooooooooooooooooo bad, can still keep Carlos Cueller - the fans favourite - out of the team.

So come on tell me - is Cueller crap and no one will admit it , Dunne playing well - or your beloved Gerard just not spotting what you are saying is clear ?

enlighten me - please - coz all I can see is these "gobshites" were out of the team when we were pathetic , and have come back in and performed not bad since.

I also see a kid in Kyle Walker looked a bloody world beater when he first came , and has progressively got worse with every game he has played.

The same can be said with Albrighton - who I likened to David Becham 6 months ago, and now looks like he couldn't get past a 5yr old kid now, and Barry Bannan - well - is he with Shergar or something ?

Its a bloody coincidence it is 30 odd players who gave us two memorable days out last year have all became "gobshites" over night !

[Greg N'Ash]

simple. GH isn't asking petrov to play MON's way

I would argue we have recently. The two wins against West Ham and Newcastle were played with a 4-4-2 and also recently we have started the same way under GMac.

its not so much the formation but the tempo of play. you ask petrov to run around for 90 minutes and he's shagged. can't do it