The future of Houllier and McAllister?

[Mister E]

Reading a lot of your posts Rick I don't think other than bringing Hitz back to Villa Park would make you happy.

Have you thought that the reason Rafa didn't play any of the youth players was because they weren't good enough?

And you'll see the FSW's now claiming the credit for the current flock of youngsters being trialled by Dalglish (in last Sunday's Times).

[VillaZogmariner]

Dalgliesh has played them because he doesn't have much choice in the matter.

I've not said that the only thing that would make me happy is Rafa. Do I think there are better managers than him out there? Yes I do. My argument is the fact that he is being rubbished for all his achievements as not good enough to become our manager.

[Summers]

Valencia's decline links with the fact they had NO money and had to sell anyone who was considered a star. They've gone through a rebuilding since he left, and finally seem slightly more settled, but still need to sell to survive - really. What he did at Valencia was good - a side that was brimming with the potential to win things - he kicked them on and they won things, but what he did at Liverpool wasn't great. It was okay. Two cups in six years for a club the size of Liverpool isn't good. Would it be better for a club in our position? Maybe - but could he achieve that here? I don't think so.

I'm not saying he isn't good enough, I'm saying he isn't my first choice - and that his achievements don't make me feel like he's better suited than someone like Moyes. If he did end up as our manager, I'd give him my full support however.

[Mister E]

Dalgliesh has played them because he doesn't have much choice in the matter.

I've not said that the only thing that would make me happy is Rafa. Do I think there are better managers than him out there? Yes I do. My argument is the fact that he is being rubbished for all his achievements as not good enough to become our manager.

And I wasn't disagreeing with you, VSM!
For me, the ideal would be Paul Lambert in as manager with GHou upstairs doing the international networking and overseeing of the playing style. It would be a win-win because Lambert would get the chance of a big club and the mentoring of a seasoned footballing man. Villa would get a manager who's cut his teeth in the championship, has a pretty good playing history and seems to be a winner.
Similar situation could be foreseen with McDermott of Reading although his credentials are less burnished.

I suspect it won't happen though, in which case the FSW, Hughes, Moyes, Jol and McLaren are all reasonable options. None of them fill me with delight, I have to say.
Owen Coyle would raise the blood pressure, in a positive sense.

[Rick_avfc]

Dalgliesh has played them because he doesn't have much choice in the matter.

I've not said that the only thing that would make me happy is Rafa. Do I think there are better managers than him out there? Yes I do. My argument is the fact that he is being rubbished for all his achievements as not good enough to become our manager.

I know you didn't say that it would make you happy the same way i didn't say that signing Hitz would make me happy.

What Rafa did at Valencia was great, no question about it.  But since then, has he gone to a lesser side and been successful?  Are you willing to take that risk at villa especially after the season we have just had?  I think thts why alot of villa fans (not all) would prefer someone like David Moyes to come in and bring back some stability and he has a lot of premiership experience (something like 8 years?)  its the safer option i think.

[VillaZogmariner]

Valencia's decline links with the fact they had NO money and had to sell anyone who was considered a star. They've gone through a rebuilding since he left, and finally seem slightly more settled, but still need to sell to survive - really. What he did at Valencia was good - a side that was brimming with the potential to win things - he kicked them on and they won things, but what he did at Liverpool wasn't great. It was okay. Two cups in six years for a club the size of Liverpool isn't good. Would it be better for a club in our position? Maybe - but could he achieve that here? I don't think so.

During his time though he was competing with the strongest Chelsea team they've had, Man Utd and all that they bring and also a strong (although on the decline) Arsenal side. Considering all that and the backroom turmoil that was happening at Liverpool I don't think anyone would've done much better there.

His biggest fuck up came when he was rattled by Fergie which brought on his "Fact" rant. But he is not the first manager that has lost it there, and he won't be the last either.

[VillaZogmariner]

Dalgliesh has played them because he doesn't have much choice in the matter.

I've not said that the only thing that would make me happy is Rafa. Do I think there are better managers than him out there? Yes I do. My argument is the fact that he is being rubbished for all his achievements as not good enough to become our manager.

And I wasn't disagreeing with you, VSM!
For me, the ideal would be Paul Lambert in as manager with GHou upstairs doing the international networking and overseeing of the playing style. It would be a win-win because Lambert would get the chance of a big club and the mentoring of a seasoned footballing man. Villa would get a manager who's cut his teeth in the championship, has a pretty good playing history and seems to be a winner.
Similar situation could be foreseen with McDermott of Reading although his credentials are less burnished.

I suspect it won't happen though, in which case the FSW, Hughes, Moyes, Jol and McLaren are all reasonable options. None of them fill me with delight, I have to say.
Owen Coyle would raise the blood pressure, in a positive sense.

Only just seen your post about Rafa, EffDee - my reply was to Rick.

[Mister E]

I think thts why alot of villa fans (not all) would prefer someone like David Moyes to come in and bring back some stability and he has a lot of premiership experience (something like 8 years?)  its the safer option i think.

Safety in the context sounds like going back into MONworld ... we need something different to our recent epxeriences; where we can build on the good things (emphasis on youth; more attractive gameplay) and consign the bad things to the history books.
I just don't see the former happening under Moyes, but I may be very wrong!

[Merv]

I think that's about right. Moyes would be the safe option - we'd be steady almost immediately, push on again for top six. Benitez would be more unpredictable and there's a chance the first season would be akin to a rollercoaster ride - but he may end up taking us higher than Moyes could.

[Eigentor]

My question would be then "Why is it that British mangers rarely get the top jobs?"

Because top clubs want proven winners as managers. And not many of them (except Ferguson) are British.

So why should we be any different then?

To become a top club, should we behave like one, or should we behave like a club trying to become one?

Even so, Benitez is my favourite, but he would be a risky appointment. I just think that he has a certain nous that Moyes lacks, even though Moyes would be a solid and less riskier appointment. Hughes did well at Blackburn results-wise, but I don't think his overall managerial career is spectacular. My feeling is that he's more likely to become another MON than Moyes is.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Having listened to the Guardian podcast, the thing that pissed me off about Benitez is his claims of wanting to go to a club not to win trophies but to build something. This reminds me of GH when he first arrived at Villa Park, I got the impression he was far too comfortable and he felt time was on his side. It took two serious kickings from the fans (Liverpool away and the calling for his head) before he finally realised exactly who are Aston Villa.

Whoever comes in this summer has to realise that we desperately want and expect to be up there at the top end of the table, results do matter and at the same time a solid plan for the future has to be put in place. It's not one or the other. Expectations at the club, whether rightly or not, are higher than those on the outside imagine. We've had more than our share of dull football so we need a manager that understands 21st century football. We also need a man that will get the very best from his squad and who the players will give everything for, week in, week out.

If Benitez thinks he needs a nice, comfortable, well paid job where expectations are not too high, he should look elsewhere. We've had enough of managers thinking they're bigger than the club and that we should be grateful to have them. We need somebody who's hungry and looking to prove themselves, creating a team and environment where players want stay whilst others want to join us and Randy needs to increase the ground capacity.

[Summers]

This season was an example of a rollercoaster. An unsuspected, non-safe, off-the-wall option and we had a relegation battle. Might just be me, but if Moyes could get us a solid strong squad again and push for the top six, we'd be in a better position. If it got to the point that he then couldn't take us further, we could make the 'unpredictable' appointment. At that point we'd have a better squad, be stable and have had a solid few seasons.

I see both sides - I just feel like we need that steady and solid appointment to rebuild us. However.. only if that man was Moyes of Hughes. If neither would be available, then I'd be prepared to go more rollercoaster. I've seen Paul Lambert's name mentioned... just wondered what people have seen in him to think he'd be ready for the step up as I haven't seen anything of him really.

[Mister E]

Having listened to the Guardian podcast, the thing that pissed me off about Benitez is his claims of wanting to go to a club not to win trophies but to build something. This reminds me of GH when he first arrived at Villa Park, I got the impression he was far too comfortable and he felt time was on his side. It took two serious kickings from the fans (Liverpool away and the calling for his head) before he finally realised exactly who are Aston Villa.

Whoever comes in this summer has to realise that we desperately want and expect to be up there at the top end of the table, results do matter and at the same time a solid plan for the future has to be put in place. It's not one or the other. Expectations at the club, whether rightly or not, are higher than those on the outside imagine. We've had more than our share of dull football so we need a manager that understands 21st century football. We also need a man that will get the very best from his squad and who the players will give everything for, week in, week out.

If Benitez thinks he needs a nice, comfortable, well paid job where expectations are not too high, he should look elsewhere. We've had enough of managers thinking they're bigger than the club and that we should be grateful to have them. We need somebody who's hungry and looking to prove themselves, creating a team and environment where players want stay whilst others want to join us and Randy needs to increase the ground capacity.

This.

[KevinGage]

Having listened to the Guardian podcast, the thing that pissed me off about Benitez is his claims of wanting to go to a club not to win trophies but to build something. This reminds me of GH when he first arrived at Villa Park, I got the impression he was far too comfortable and he felt time was on his side. It took two serious kickings from the fans (Liverpool away and the calling for his head) before he finally realised exactly who are Aston Villa.

Whoever comes in this summer has to realise that we desperately want and expect to be up there at the top end of the table, results do matter and at the same time a solid plan for the future has to be put in place. It's not one or the other. Expectations at the club, whether rightly or not, are higher than those on the outside imagine. We've had more than our share of dull football so we need a manager that understands 21st century football. We also need a man that will get the very best from his squad and who the players will give everything for, week in, week out.

If Benitez thinks he needs a nice, comfortable, well paid job where expectations are not too high, he should look elsewhere. We've had enough of managers thinking they're bigger than the club and that we should be grateful to have them. We need somebody who's hungry and looking to prove themselves, creating a team and environment where players want stay whilst others want to join us and Randy needs to increase the ground capacity.

Spot on MK.

[Whiney MacWhineface]

Having listened to the Guardian podcast, the thing that pissed me off about Benitez is his claims of wanting to go to a club not to win trophies but to build something. This reminds me of GH when he first arrived at Villa Park, I got the impression he was far too comfortable and he felt time was on his side. It took two serious kickings from the fans (Liverpool away and the calling for his head) before he finally realised exactly who are Aston Villa.

Whoever comes in this summer has to realise that we desperately want and expect to be up there at the top end of the table, results do matter and at the same time a solid plan for the future has to be put in place. It's not one or the other. Expectations at the club, whether rightly or not, are higher than those on the outside imagine. We've had more than our share of dull football so we need a manager that understands 21st century football. We also need a man that will get the very best from his squad and who the players will give everything for, week in, week out.

If Benitez thinks he needs a nice, comfortable, well paid job where expectations are not too high, he should look elsewhere. We've had enough of managers thinking they're bigger than the club and that we should be grateful to have them. We need somebody who's hungry and looking to prove themselves, creating a team and environment where players want stay whilst others want to join us and Randy needs to increase the ground capacity.

Nah.

I think you're reading too much into him knowing that he's not going to waltz into a big-time, ready-made club this time around.

Do you think we're ready-made for the top four? Do you not think we need building? A decent base for someone like Benitez to work from sure.