He's fucking useless, but my biggest fear is who next?
We've appointed some utter donkeys who have overseen such diabolically poor football for what will be six seasons now, that I am not sure where we go next.
It's clear though that the manager has not go the first fucking clue and doesn't deserve any more opportunities.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34370950
FFS.
Give him to xmas.Why though? Not only could that mean that we're even further in the shit, it will also mean that we're looking for a new manager (and backroom staff, presumably) at a time when we should be looking at strengthening the squad.
Give him to xmas.
What on earth is Ray Wilkins doing in all this?Drinking
All this talk of relegation in September after pretty much assembling a new squad in the summer is ridiculous...its the kind of stupid shite I receive on text messages from gloating Baggies fans. Results haven't gone our way yet, but we've got far too many decent players at the club now to get relegated so can we please stop with this negative drivel.We're too good to go down? It's not just results that have not gone our way, we haven't deserved anything more than what we've got so far. This is a continuation of last season's end, just with new players. Sherwood hasn't a clue and the sooner Fox realises that the better, otherwise we have a real chance of being relegated.
Is Sherwood the right man? I'll admit that there is genuine cause for concern as he talks a much better game than what we're seeing on the pitch. I'm literally holding onto the memories of the excellent football we have played under TS at times and hope that can develop into 90 minutes, and with Gueye and Traore now back in the squad then TS will have no excuses if results dont start drastically improving.
He needs some games with a full strength squad so I'd give him till Christmas to turn things around.
Team for Stoke
--------- Guzan ---------
Hutton Richards Clark amavi
--- Gana -------- Sanchez --
Vertout ------------- Grealish
---- Ayew ------- Gestede ---
Team for Stoke
--------- Guzan ---------
Hutton Richards Clark amavi
--- Gana -------- Sanchez --
Vertout ------------- Grealish
---- Ayew ------- Gestede ---
We're in the shit, the next lot of fixtures are horribleHe needs to be getting 6pts from those games...draws or wins from the games in bold. We have to put previous results behind us from last season and this, but if he can't do that then he shouldn't be in the job.
Stoke
Chelsea
Swansea
Spurs
Man City
Everton
Completely ballsed up the start of the season.
All this talk of relegation in September after pretty much assembling a new squad in the summer is ridiculous...its the kind of stupid shite I receive on text messages from gloating Baggies fans. Results haven't gone our way yet, but we've got far too many decent players at the club now to get relegated so can we please stop with this negative drivel.We're too good to go down? It's not just results that have not gone our way, we haven't deserved anything more than what we've got so far. This is a continuation of last season's end, just with new players. Sherwood hasn't a clue and the sooner Fox realises that the better, otherwise we have a real chance of being relegated.
Is Sherwood the right man? I'll admit that there is genuine cause for concern as he talks a much better game than what we're seeing on the pitch. I'm literally holding onto the memories of the excellent football we have played under TS at times and hope that can develop into 90 minutes, and with Gueye and Traore now back in the squad then TS will have no excuses if results dont start drastically improving.
He needs some games with a full strength squad so I'd give him till Christmas to turn things around.
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Re: Aston Villa vs Queen's Park Rangers - post match thread
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2015, 09:48:59 PM »
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This manager is a clueless chancer
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Called it ages ago .
There have been signs in matches under him, including this season (bar a couple of matches), where we've looked like we're more than capable of doing ok.
It's not even October.
Without getting peoples backs up (and I'm aware the next few words will do this), but how many people wanting him to go have watched us play under him (matches, not highlights)?
I think we've played better this season that at this point last season (and the seasons before that), but presume we're on less points (?). I feel more optimistic now than I did this time last season.
Did you seriously expect us to win away at Anfield today?
We're in the shit, the next lot of fixtures are horribleHe needs to be getting 6pts from those games...draws or wins from the games in bold. We have to put previous results behind us from last season and this, but if he can't do that then he shouldn't be in the job.
Stoke
Chelsea
Swansea
Spurs
Man City
Everton
Completely ballsed up the start of the season.
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Re: Aston Villa vs Queen's Park Rangers - post match thread
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2015, 09:48:59 PM »
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This manager is a clueless chancer
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82.132.237.95
Called it ages ago .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34370950
FFS.
That interview is a bag of bollocks as well, at no point was writing this season off as another learning curve for everyone mentioned. PLus we've been here before, we smell bullshit now, it's like a second language to us having heard so much of it pretty much all of this decade and boy is he talking bullshit right now.
We're in the shit, the next lot of fixtures are horribleHe needs to be getting 6pts from those games...draws or wins from the games in bold. We have to put previous results behind us from last season and this, but if he can't do that then he shouldn't be in the job.
Stoke
Chelsea
Swansea
Spurs
Man City
Everton
Completely ballsed up the start of the season.
10 points from 12 games since the semi final - extrapolates to 30-32 points over a full season..
6 from those 6 fixtures above would put us on 10 from 13 games this season (3 less than last season, 1 less than QPR after 13 games last season) - I would suggest we need a few more points than 6.
There have been signs in matches under him, including this season (bar a couple of matches), where we've looked like we're more than capable of doing ok.I agree with this. There is no way he's getting sacked this side of Christmas anyway so it may get worse before it gets better.
It's not even October.
Without getting peoples backs up (and I'm aware the next few words will do this), but how many people wanting him to go have watched us play under him (matches, not highlights)?
I think we've played better this season that at this point last season (and the seasons before that), but presume we're on less points (?). I feel more optimistic now than I did this time last season.
Clearly he's nothing more than a blag artist happy to smile at the cameras throw out the tired old cliches and trouser his £50k a week .http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34370950
FFS.
That interview is a bag of bollocks as well, at no point was writing this season off as another learning curve for everyone mentioned. PLus we've been here before, we smell bullshit now, it's like a second language to us having heard so much of it pretty much all of this decade and boy is he talking bullshit right now.
Actually he kind of promised this would not happen again
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-3066602/Aston-Villa-won-t-fight-relegation-says-Tim-Sherwood.html
Christ, here we go again.Did you seriously expect us to win away at Anfield today?
I'd expect us to have a go. And I'd expect us to beat Sunderland at home, and to win when 2-0 with 20 mins to go against Leicester.
I'd also expect a better interview after 7 games rather than our aim is to avoid relegation.
He is coming across (to me) as an out of depth chancer.
I have gone for undecided, what I certainly wouldn't say is I would rather us go down than have Big Sam as the manager. To be honest he may just be what we need to get us back on track, perhaps until the end of the season then once again try and start fresh in the summer.
The reality is though who is there to come in if we sack Sherwood? Moyes seems to be happy in Spain, Klopp/Ancelotti are way out of our league which leaves you with perhaps recruiting from the Championship? it's all a bit Groundhog Day again, very depressing.
We picked the wrong time to choose a total novice of a manager as well as buying 10 unproven at this level players. It's not going to end well in my view. But I also think we have to give him until Christmas (no later) to try and sort it out. One thing that did cross my mind bringing someone in like Harry to assist him like Middlesvilla did with Very Tenderballs a few years ago.
Allardyce is available......It's a no brainer
Give him to xmas.Why though? Not only could that mean that we're even further in the shit, it will also mean that we're looking for a new manager (and backroom staff, presumably) at a time when we should be looking at strengthening the squad.
I can't bring myself to read this thread. Are our fans for real? It's not even feckin October yet.1 win in 10
Give him to xmas.
we will be cut adrift by then. too late
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Re: Aston Villa vs Queen's Park Rangers - post match thread
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2015, 09:48:59 PM »
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This manager is a clueless chancer
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82.132.237.95
Called it ages ago .
Give him to xmas.Why though? Not only could that mean that we're even further in the shit, it will also mean that we're looking for a new manager (and backroom staff, presumably) at a time when we should be looking at strengthening the squad.
Bearing in mind our only 3 wins this season have been against Bournemouth who were a Championship team before we played them, Notts County of League Two who took us to extra time and Blues, another Championship side. Probably shows we are where we should be. I think we need to stick with him until at least Christmas. I can see signs of us stringing a couple/few wins together but then again I always felt the same with Lambert and they never materialised. I really thought / hoped that with all these new players it would be a clean slate but turns out it's deja vu yet again.
Team for Stoke
--------- Guzan ---------
Hutton Richards Clark amavi
--- Gana -------- Sanchez --
Vertout ------------- Grealish
---- Ayew ------- Gestede ---
Sorry I don't buy the new players red herring.
See Southampton last season who lost all their best players and rebuilt over the summer and hit the ground running.
There have been signs in matches under him, including this season (bar a couple of matches), where we've looked like we're more than capable of doing ok.
It's not even October.
Without getting peoples backs up (and I'm aware the next few words will do this), but how many people wanting him to go have watched us play under him (matches, not highlights)?
I think we've played better this season that at this point last season (and the seasons before that), but presume we're on less points (?). I feel more optimistic now than I did this time last season.
10 points in the first four games gave us a cushion last season. Its the opposite now and as things stand I dont see where the next win is coming from
Despite my anger, Tim did an unbelievable job keeping us up last season. I do thank him for that.
Why can't we just get MON back. Closure and all that all round I'd say.
What a pointless poll 5 minutes after a defeat.
Despite my anger, Tim did an unbelievable job keeping us up last season. I do thank him for that.There is an argument that anyone decent might have saved us.
Is it destiny ?Why can't we just get MON back. Closure and all that all round I'd say.
Seriously?
No, it's idiocy.Yep but this is football, not a lesson in physics or maths.
What a pointless poll 5 minutes after a defeat.
Keep. Complete lack of patience with a young coach and a new team being shown.
What a pointless poll 5 minutes after a defeat.
The reading of the thread isn't compulsory; I believe I gave fair warning about what was contained within from the title.
You don't like football, you enjoy Sky football.
What a pointless poll 5 minutes after a defeat.
The reading of the thread isn't compulsory; I believe I gave fair warning about what was contained within from the title.
Keep. Complete lack of patience with a young coach and a new team being shown.
ffs he isnt YOUNG
It isn't just the total failure to deliver, it is the vast, stinking sea of bullshit that he surrounds himself in.
He talks such self-preservational bullshit that he makes the shit results even more unpalatable.
He's a proper bullshit merchant, and he's going to take us down.
I'd prefer it if we were where we were mostly because of the players being clowns, but we're not, we are where we are because the manager hasn't got a fucking clue.
Why can't we just get MON back. Closure and all that all round I'd say.
Keep. Complete lack of patience with a young coach and a new team being shown.
ffs he isnt YOUNG
Okay, I'll reword it so not to upset you. Inexperienced, learning. Better?
You don't like football, you enjoy Sky football.
I don't know what that means.
This goes far deeper than Sherwood. The malaise at this club over the last 5 years has been nothing short of scandalous. Managers probably come in think yeh this is a cushy number decent salary for a year or two. I only have to get them to 17th and if we look like we are going to go I'll get a decent payoff so what does it matter. The people at the top need to start to look like they give a fcuk then we might have some direction and ambition under a manager who can embrace that.
I worry about going down and struggling there too which is why is want us to stay up however we can.
You don't like football, you enjoy Sky football.
I don't know what that means.
Sky football is all about being in the best league in the world ever no matter how (Allardyce).
I'd rather see my team attack and win games. I'm fully aware Villa haven't done this for a long time, but at least TS looked like he might be willing to do it.
I'm past caring just watching shit for the sake of it. Honestly, I'd rather watch us play attacking football every game and go down.
Winning with 10 defenders in the PL or playing to win in the Championship? I'd rather trying to win. Maybe I'd my changed my mind if we were there, but after the last however many years of going down Villa Park watching shit, I'm bored and past caring about just being there in the top division. It's boring.
Remember when it used to hurt and you were pissed off for most of the evening after losing. Now....Still hurts, in a different way now.
What a pointless poll 5 minutes after a defeat.
The reading of the thread isn't compulsory; I believe I gave fair warning about what was contained within from the title.
You must be fucking furious. You were furious under MON when we looked OK and finishing 6th. Fuck knows how you haven't topped yourself the last few years.
Get rid.
I know he's not been here long, but his mistakes are so enormous, i can't see him ever learning from them.
Should never have got the job in the first place.
There is relatively little wrong with the players - the problem is the manager. He's out of his depth.
I took the piss in suggesting Allardyce, although 2-3 seasons of being safe by April would not go amiss in fairness.
I just don't get Sherwood this season. Ayew comes on on Tuesday and changes the game completely, Vertout has his best game yet and Lescott is hooked at half time. Any manager would have the first 2 in the side to take forward that confidence and start Clark in the back 4.
The mistakes he seems to make are just glaring each week. Since the 6-0 at Southampton he has almost second guessed everything he has done since on the pitch, while curiously doing very well off the pitch in terms of the players he has got in. We are clearly a right back and a quality striker from being a rounded side, but Gestede is proving that with the service the bugger will score goals.
The biggest problem is the quite bizarre selection and in game management. He needs some kind of tactically astute assistant. Ray is clearly not it!
What a pointless poll 5 minutes after a defeat.
The reading of the thread isn't compulsory; I believe I gave fair warning about what was contained within from the title.
You must be fucking furious. You were furious under MON when we looked OK and finishing 6th. Fuck knows how you haven't topped yourself the last few years.
6 years of shite wears your resolve down eventually.
I don't know enough about European football to suggest a manager but were there not any better options abroad than an out of work bloke who had managed Spurs for a few matches?Clearly there were but Fox didn't interview anyone else at all which is shocking
I don't know enough about European football to suggest a manager but were there not any better options abroad than an out of work bloke who had managed Spurs for a few matches?Clearly there were but Fox didn't interview anyone else at all which is shocking
I don't know enough about European football to suggest a manager but were there not any better options abroad than an out of work bloke who had managed Spurs for a few matches?Clearly there were but Fox didn't interview anyone else at all which is shocking
After years of shite, should we be looking within for reasons we're so crap?
How many time can you be wrong about a manager before you realise it's not actually the managers fault?
And how much do fans play a part in this? Gary Monk was mentioned on a thread earlier. Imagine him coming to Villa Park and telling players they're going to pass, pass and pass no matter where they are on the pitch. Then imagine the fans shouting abuse at players from a short distance away telling them they're fucking useless and to get it forward. How long would he last?
Not saying it's the fans fault, but just putting different perspectives on things.
The decision to drop Clark and leave Ayew out despite both performing well against Blues says a lot. Useless selection and 'tactics'
Having a 'Sherwood-Get Rid' is all a bit, well Albion really.
Having a 'Sherwood-Get Rid' is all a bit, well Albion really.
It is The Way of the Web.
Anyone who thinks we are superior to other supporters in this respect is living in cloud cuckoo land.
He has bought some decent players but the team seems incapable of playing out a game successfully
Who is responsible for that? I would normally say the players but the team selection and substitution
is down to TT - I want him to succeed but he seems so reactive it is unbelievable - always a game behind
If Sunderland gave Di Canio till Christmas, they would've went down. He's our Di Canio. Get rid now.
He has bought some decent players but the team seems incapable of playing out a game successfully
Who is responsible for that? I would normally say the players but the team selection and substitution
is down to TT - I want him to succeed but he seems so reactive it is unbelievable - always a game behind
I'm not shifting the blame entirely from the manager but a lot of the problems this season have been down to ridiculous individual errors.
My only gripe with Sherwood would be picking Agbonlahor and Westwood.
Having a 'Sherwood-Get Rid' is all a bit, well Albion really.
It is The Way of the Web.
Anyone who thinks we are superior to other supporters in this respect is living in cloud cuckoo land.
I don't think there's been another club who have performed as consistently badly as we have for the last 5 that hasn't gone down, therefore comparisons with other clubs are irrelevant.
Re those comments about judge me on next season and that this season is about staying up!
Bloody hell he must be joking. Thats a complete 180 degree turn around on what he's been saying up to now and the clearest indicator (other than baffling team selection, tactics, substitutions and post match moments taking no responsibility) that he's making the whole thing up as he goes along.
After years of shite, should we be looking within for reasons we're so crap?Always as clue is in the name "manage the job".
How many time can you be wrong about a manager before you realise it's not actually the managers fault?
I think people are forgetting the peculiar conditions which led to his appointment. We were in the process of being sold and are still, as far I know, up for sale. The owner has given no signal that things have changed in this respect.
I think people are forgetting the peculiar conditions which led to his appointment. We were in the process of being sold and are still, as far I know, up for sale. The owner has given no signal that things have changed in this respect.
So, we weren't actually in the process of being sold, we were up for sale, surely? Different things.
Did you seriously expect us to win away at Anfield today?
Why do these managers have to try and be too clever at times. I mean we hadn't won in ages. Okay we were up against the Blues. But we won and furthermore we won with a very fluent performance in the second half having made some key changes. We are going to Liverpool who are (in relative terms) there for the taking. So just start with the side that finished Tuesday's game. Try it you never know it might work. What's the worse that could happen? It doesn't work then you make changes again. This is where I just don't understand what goes through their minds at times.
I just don't see it because the same pig headed decisions and bone headed moves keep repeating themselves. And what's worse is that he follows them up with a load of balls in the post match interview and the following pre match news conference. It's just getting harder and harder to take week after week.
paulinewaltnuts, I know we won the game, but tell me what you thought that first half performance was like?
"If we get out of this situation this season, we aren't going to be in it next year. Never. Because I will have the opportunity to build something and I won't let that happen again."
Bullshitter
If you mean the Small Heath game, the first half performance was one of the most limp, pathetic, shapeless, hopeless 45 minutes I've seen us play in a long time.
Truly abysmal. The suggestion from Sherwood that it was all part of a plan to be shit, make Blues look good, and get booed off at half time just marks out what a total bullshitter he is.
"If we get out of this situation this season, we aren't going to be in it next year. Never. Because I will have the opportunity to build something and I won't let that happen again."
Bullshitter
Way to soon to talk of getting rid and makes us sound like Albion fans. Sherwood gets criticised for talking about avoiding relegation but if Pulis or Allardyce walked in the door tomorrow (and they have both been mentioned on this thread) you can bet those would be the first words out of their mouth.If that was even in the top ten reasons for getting rid for most then I'd be surprised. His ineptitude at management far outweighs his bellendry (which, admittedly, has grated from day one).
Way to soon to talk of getting rid and makes us sound like Albion fans. Sherwood gets criticised for talking about avoiding relegation but if Pulis or Allardyce walked in the door tomorrow (and they have both been mentioned on this thread) you can bet those would be the first words out of their mouth.If that was even in the top ten reasons for getting rid for most then I'd be surprised. His ineptitude at management far outweighs his bellendry (which, admittedly, has grated from day one).
Jurgen Klopp would be interested in moving to the Premier League, his agent revealed
Jurgen Klopp would be interested in moving to an ‘exciting’ Premier League club when he returns to management, his agent has revealed.
The enigmatic German left Borussia Dortmund at the end of the season after seven years with the Bundesliga club, leading them to two league titles, the German Cup and a Champions League final in his time at the helm.
Klopp now plans to take a break from football to recharge his batteries but would welcome a move to England when he does make his comeback, according to his agent Marc Kosicke.
Speaking to SPOX, Kosicke said: “The Premier League is very exciting, and we do not only think about the top four because there are some other great clubs below them.”
One concern Kosicke has is whether English clubs have structure that Klopp prefers and allows him to concentrate solely on matters on the pitch.
“I am not sure the profile of the job could work,” he said. “In Germany there is a clear separation between manager and sporting director and I think in principle this is very good.
“Jurgen does not like to speak to players’ agents or to carry out a transfer. So we have to see which is the most useful arrangement.”
Champions League football is often viewed as crucial to attracting managers of Klopp’s calibre but Kosicke insists other factors are more important to his client.
“It is always all about the challenge,” he added. “When Jurgen signed for Dortmund there were other clubs who had better prestige and were in better financial mood at this time. Nevertheless he decided for Dortmund.
“He has the great ability to develop things. If he goes into a stadium, feels the energy and thinks that he can make a difference here, this could be more attractive to him than going with the big deals and aim for the treble.”
"If we get out of this situation this season, we aren't going to be in it next year. Never. Because I will have the opportunity to build something and I won't let that happen again."If that is what he has said, he should be presented with his comments from last season about not being in another relegation battle. Ever.
Bullshitter
Did you seriously expect us to win away at Anfield today?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-3066602/Aston-Villa-won-t-fight-relegation-says-Tim-Sherwood.html
Having a 'Sherwood-Get Rid' is all a bit, well Albion really.
This is correct but pardew is a dislikable tit, he is doing a good job at palace thoughI just don't see it because the same pig headed decisions and bone headed moves keep repeating themselves. And what's worse is that he follows them up with a load of balls in the post match interview and the following pre match news conference. It's just getting harder and harder to take week after week.
One of my mates is a Newcastle fan, and, having listened to him talk about the Pardew era, it sounds very, very similar - the shit decisions followed by the pig headed refusal to even consider he might be in the wrong.
yep; thanks, Risso.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-3066602/Aston-Villa-won-t-fight-relegation-says-Tim-Sherwood.html
There it is in black and white.
Having a 'Sherwood-Get Rid' is all a bit, well Albion really.
You were there mate what was the opinion?
Too soon to be getting rid in my opinion; I'd give him a bit longer with this team. To be clinical about it, you get a better choice of replacements come around November time anyway.
The thing is as I've said on another thread our problems seem to go beyond who the manager is. So I'm not sure changing him will make a blind bit of difference.
From memory we had a fairly decent start with McLeish and is was only when the form slumped he got some stickHaving a 'Sherwood-Get Rid' is all a bit, well Albion really.
You were there mate what was the opinion?
There wasn't anyone singing 'Sherwood Out', put it that way. I could probably understand this thread if it was around December and we were in a similar position. McLeish didn't get put any pressure until March time but Sherwood is getting it already, it's ridiculous.
Having a 'Sherwood-Get Rid' is all a bit, well Albion really.
You were there mate what was the opinion?
There wasn't anyone singing 'Sherwood Out', put it that way. I could probably understand this thread if it was around December and we were in a similar position. McLeish didn't get put any pressure until March time but Sherwood is getting it already, it's ridiculous.
Did you seriously expect us to win away at Anfield today?
Did you seriously expect us to win away at Anfield today?
I don't get this attitude. On that basis we have to write off 80% of the fixtures this season and only turn up for Norwich, Bournemouth etc at home. We've seen it grow from ''do you expect us to beat Liverpool'' to '' do you expect us to beat Swansea away'' to '' do you expect us to beat Palace'', somewhere it has to stop and yes I do expect us to get some results somewhere other than beating Bournemouth and other relegation candidates at home.
It doesn't take long in the Villa job before a manager starts getting his excuses in.
Sherwood said after the cup final that he would bring in proven winners to change the mentality of the club. He also said that we wouldn't be in this position again. Now, suddenly, a season of struggle was all part of the plan because we have too many 'young players'. Well let's look at the age of the team yesterday:
Guzan 31
Hutton 30
Richards 26
Lescott 33
Amavi 21
Westwood 25
Sanchez 29
Gana 25
Gestede 26
Sinclair 26
Grealish 20
These managers really do think we're stupid don't they?
There have been signs in matches under him, including this season (bar a couple of matches), where we've looked like we're more than capable of doing ok.
It's not even October.
Without getting peoples backs up (and I'm aware the next few words will do this), but how many people wanting him to go have watched us play under him (matches, not highlights)?
I think we've played better this season that at this point last season (and the seasons before that), but presume we're on less points (?). I feel more optimistic now than I did this time last season.
10 points in the first four games gave us a cushion last season. Its the opposite now and as things stand I dont see where the next win is coming from
after that run we have played 41 games and got 32 points
It doesn't take long in the Villa job before a manager starts getting his excuses in.
Sherwood said after the cup final that he would bring in proven winners to change the mentality of the club. He also said that we wouldn't be in this position again. Now, suddenly, a season of struggle was all part of the plan because we have too many 'young players'. Well let's look at the age of the team yesterday:
Guzan 31
Hutton 30
Richards 26
Lescott 33
Amavi 21
Westwood 25
Sanchez 29
Gana 25
Gestede 26
Sinclair 26
Grealish 20
These managers really do think we're stupid don't they?
Beat me to it Olof's Beard - when I heard Sherwood talking about so many kids on MOTD I thought it was bullshit and I was going to do exactly what you have done. He's making himself look a bit stupid now
Having a 'Sherwood-Get Rid' is all a bit, well Albion really.
You were there mate what was the opinion?
Yes, those managers at least had a decent record at other clubs in the past but Tim does not have anything, why some people (me included) think he is a chancer.
There wasn't anyone singing 'Sherwood Out', put it that way. I could probably understand this thread if it was around December and we were in a similar position. McLeish didn't get put any pressure until March time but Sherwood is getting it already, it's ridiculous.
McLeish didn't because he'd put 11 points on the board by now.
Even Lambert got 5, then 10, then 10 again.
Given how we all saw the way those seasons panned out, I don't think it's too ridiculous for people to start reacting.
Having a 'Sherwood-Get Rid' is all a bit, well Albion really.
You were there mate what was the opinion?
Yes, those managers at least had a decent record at other clubs in the past but Tim does not have anything, why some people (me included) think he is a chancer.
There wasn't anyone singing 'Sherwood Out', put it that way. I could probably understand this thread if it was around December and we were in a similar position. McLeish didn't get put any pressure until March time but Sherwood is getting it already, it's ridiculous.
McLeish didn't because he'd put 11 points on the board by now.
Even Lambert got 5, then 10, then 10 again.
Given how we all saw the way those seasons panned out, I don't think it's too ridiculous for people to start reacting.
Marcelo Beisla's also recently left Marseille. He's completely nuts, but would definitely get the side performing.
He'd be my target.
Having a 'Sherwood-Get Rid' is all a bit, well Albion really.
You were there mate what was the opinion?
Yes, those managers at least had a decent record at other clubs in the past but Tim does not have anything, why some people (me included) think he is a chancer.
There wasn't anyone singing 'Sherwood Out', put it that way. I could probably understand this thread if it was around December and we were in a similar position. McLeish didn't get put any pressure until March time but Sherwood is getting it already, it's ridiculous.
McLeish didn't because he'd put 11 points on the board by now.
Even Lambert got 5, then 10, then 10 again.
Given how we all saw the way those seasons panned out, I don't think it's too ridiculous for people to start reacting.
That's even more reason not to jump the gun after a poor start I suppose.
Having a 'Sherwood-Get Rid' is all a bit, well Albion really.
You were there mate what was the opinion?
Yes, those managers at least had a decent record at other clubs in the past but Tim does not have anything, why some people (me included) think he is a chancer.
There wasn't anyone singing 'Sherwood Out', put it that way. I could probably understand this thread if it was around December and we were in a similar position. McLeish didn't get put any pressure until March time but Sherwood is getting it already, it's ridiculous.
McLeish didn't because he'd put 11 points on the board by now.
Even Lambert got 5, then 10, then 10 again.
Given how we all saw the way those seasons panned out, I don't think it's too ridiculous for people to start reacting.
That's even more reason not to jump the gun after a poor start I suppose.
I've tried to understand what that could possibly mean but honestly have no idea.
The thing about young kids is laughable, but as nothing compared to his "that was my plan" bullshit about the first half against Small Heath.
What a bullshitter.
The thing about young kids is laughable, but as nothing compared to his "that was my plan" bullshit about the first half against Small Heath.
What a bullshitter.
Don't say that, I got lambasted for commenting on that
Marcelo Beisla's also recently left Marseille. He's completely nuts, but would definitely get the side performing.
He'd be my target.
Despite him doing a MON on Marseille he would also be my choice.
Keeping Westy on corners etc is in itself a sackable offence.
That's even more reason not to jump the gun after a poor start I suppose.It's not just the poor start. Look at end of last season? He has been heralded as saving us however I would like to differ by saying that he almost relegated us. We were saved because Hull messed up.
That's even more reason not to jump the gun after a poor start I suppose.It's not just the poor start. Look at end of last season? He has been heralded as saving us however I would like to differ by saying that he almost relegated us. We were saved because Hull messed up.
Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking? Maybe not next week, but if things don't improve by Xmas?
That's even more reason not to jump the gun after a poor start I suppose.It's not just the poor start. Look at end of last season? He has been heralded as saving us however I would like to differ by saying that he almost relegated us. We were saved because Hull messed up.
The end of last season wasn't great but he's brought in his own players now and just had his first ever pre-season so I'd just like us to stick with it and see where it goes.
Opposite. We are struggling now and nothing so far shows that changing, it could get worse. He has no record to show he is decent manager likely to turn it around. I hope he does but he was employed on the back of 9 games (?) for Spuds.Having a 'Sherwood-Get Rid' is all a bit, well Albion really.
You were there mate what was the opinion?
Yes, those managers at least had a decent record at other clubs in the past but Tim does not have anything, why some people (me included) think he is a chancer.
There wasn't anyone singing 'Sherwood Out', put it that way. I could probably understand this thread if it was around December and we were in a similar position. McLeish didn't get put any pressure until March time but Sherwood is getting it already, it's ridiculous.
McLeish didn't because he'd put 11 points on the board by now.
Even Lambert got 5, then 10, then 10 again.
Given how we all saw the way those seasons panned out, I don't think it's too ridiculous for people to start reacting.
That's even more reason not to jump the gun after a poor start I suppose.
I've tried to understand what that could possibly mean but honestly have no idea.
It means what it says. We started well last season and we ended up struggling. Just because we've started poorly doesn't mean it's going to happen again.
That's even more reason not to jump the gun after a poor start I suppose.It's not just the poor start. Look at end of last season? He has been heralded as saving us however I would like to differ by saying that he almost relegated us. We were saved because Hull messed up.
We have all worked with people who are full of bull and have big mouths and they generally get away with it when things are going well. The problem comes when the bull continues and things start going badly. They get less sympathy and time because people can see their bullshit has covered for any semblance of talent.
That is Sherwoods problem.
He isnt throwing his gilet down now when we score is he?
He is trotting out excuses. Yesterdays press conference was awful. He has spent £40m and is aiming for 17th. Talking about survival after 7 games, you couldnt make it up. God knows what effect that has on the players morale. He is effectively saying we were shit, we are still shit and if we can hang on this season everything will be ok.
Joker of the highest degree.
Get rid and now please
We have all worked with people who are full of bull and have big mouths and they generally get away with it when things are going well. The problem comes when the bull continues and things start going badly. They get less sympathy and time because people can see their bullshit has covered for any semblance of talent.
That is Sherwoods problem.
He isnt throwing his gilet down now when we score is he?
He is trotting out excuses. Yesterdays press conference was awful. He has spent £40m and is aiming for 17th. Talking about survival after 7 games, you couldnt make it up. God knows what effect that has on the players morale. He is effectively saying we were shit, we are still shit and if we can hang on this season everything will be ok.
Joker of the highest degree.
Get rid and now please
Which of the new signings do you have a problem with?
I think the 40 million was spent very well. Getting them to gel in two months is difficult.
We have all worked with people who are full of bull and have big mouths and they generally get away with it when things are going well. The problem comes when the bull continues and things start going badly. They get less sympathy and time because people can see their bullshit has covered for any semblance of talent.
That is Sherwoods problem.
He isnt throwing his gilet down now when we score is he?
He is trotting out excuses. Yesterdays press conference was awful. He has spent £40m and is aiming for 17th. Talking about survival after 7 games, you couldnt make it up. God knows what effect that has on the players morale. He is effectively saying we were shit, we are still shit and if we can hang on this season everything will be ok.
Joker of the highest degree.
Get rid and now please
Which of the new signings do you have a problem with?
I think the 40 million was spent very well. Getting them to gel in two months is difficult.
This isnt about the signings. Like you I think we have some decent players. i never wanted Lescott but his fee is a drop in the ocean. Clark was arguably our best players before getting injured at Spurs. He is superior to Lescott in my view.
So my issue wiith with the manager. A better manager would get more of our the team andthe tactics and team choices and subs as discussed ad nauseum on here recently are my gripe
Keeping Westy on corners etc is in itself a sackable offence.
He comes across as pretty honest to me.
He comes across as pretty honest to me.
One thing he definitely isn't is honest. He is straight out lying to say that he's said all along that we'll struggle. He's actually been saying the exact opposite. Even last season he wasn't talking about 'if we stay up'. He's feeling the pressure and transparently trying to deflect it elsewhere. His interviews only seem plausible if you didn't see the contradictory one he gave the previous week. That he thinks he can get away with this and keep his players on side is a big worry...it suggests that he has limited awareness of how people think...and that is a rather fundamental part of his job.
I understand manager not coming out and saying they've messed up, but his cover stories don't match up with the game we have all just seen.
Yesterday he said that we needed to keep things more tight, and on an individual basis you could look at all the goals and say there were individual errors and lapses of concentration. But the biggest problem yesterday was that by setting us up so deep and with an immobile lone striker, we just invited pressure back onto ourselves. If we hadn't played almost the whole team in our own half we wouldn't have put our defenders under the sort of sustained pressure that leads to those errors. The hardest thing to understand is that we played that way having started the game a goal down. At that point, keeping it tight is not going to help you to turn the game around.
That's even more reason not to jump the gun after a poor start I suppose.It's not just the poor start. Look at end of last season? He has been heralded as saving us however I would like to differ by saying that he almost relegated us. We were saved because Hull messed up.
I agree John, he did a great job in keeping us up, and you're right he gave the whole club a lift after 3 years of that incompetent turd Lambert. But that doesn't mean he's going to work out as anything other than a short term caretaker type, I just don't think he's got the skills or ability to be successful long term I'm afraid. I could be wrong but it's not looking very promising. I think we could be deep in the brown stuff by the time October has finished, as I can't see us getting more than 3 points from the next 4 games.
Team for Stoke
--------- Guzan ---------
Hutton Richards Clark amavi
--- Gana -------- Sanchez --
Vertout ------------- Grealish
---- Ayew ------- Gestede ---
Just watched the interview, thats a bigger u turn than delph.
Just watched the interview, thats a bigger u turn than delph.
steady on now...nothing is that big, will ever be that big.
I agree John, he did a great job in keeping us up, and you're right he gave the whole club a lift after 3 years of that incompetent turd Lambert. But that doesn't mean he's going to work out as anything other than a short term caretaker type, I just don't think he's got the skills or ability to be successful long term I'm afraid. I could be wrong but it's not looking very promising. I think we could be deep in the brown stuff by the time October has finished, as I can't see us getting more than 3 points from the next 4 games.
I agree John, he did a great job in keeping us up, and you're right he gave the whole club a lift after 3 years of that incompetent turd Lambert. But that doesn't mean he's going to work out as anything other than a short term caretaker type, I just don't think he's got the skills or ability to be successful long term I'm afraid. I could be wrong but it's not looking very promising. I think we could be deep in the brown stuff by the time October has finished, as I can't see us getting more than 3 points from the next 4 games.
I know the concept of 'gut feeling' is not exactly scientific, but when we appointed Keane my gut feeling was that it'd end in tears, relatively quickly.
I got the same gut feeling when we appointed Sherwood.
I know this is probably a knee-jerk reaction and proof that O'Leary was right we are all fickle etc
Yes it is and yes he was
We get to hear Sherwood, what a couple of times a week, maybe more if there's a midweek game, and for what a couple of minutes each time?It never ceases to amaze me that people can assume they know what happens in the dressing room or what players actually think. As for your suggestion that we should be competing with the likes of Bournmouth, Norwich and Watford. Well we've only played one of those teams and we beat them. I realise that's nothing to write home about but it's too early to suggest we can't get out of this situation
Whereas the players have to listen to this bullshit nonsense/ramblings of a madman/deflecting all blame away from himself/the revision of history/referring to himself in the third person, etc. more or less every day, and for what probably seems like for hours on end!
Now imagine you had a tosser like that in charge at work...wouldn't everyone rip the shit out of him behind his back, while basically having no respect for the poor sod whatsoever? Our players have probably decided Timmeh! is a complete twat with little or no chance of him still being there by the end of the season.
I didn't expect to get much from the game yesterday, we all should've realised that it's going to take time and some experimentation to find the right formation to fit the players we've bought. The club's been in a downward spiral for years now, and there's no overnight solution to that...However, I do expect that we should be able to compete with the likes of Bournemouth, Norwich, Watford et al and at least look like we might have enough to stay up. But the simple fact is we look nailed on for relegation at this rate, and I for one can't see any signs of progress, even the tiniest step on a learning curve, or any coherent tactical plan at all.
Seven games is probably not enough to fairly judge, but he makes such a twat of himself the whole time, it's hard not to come to the conclusion the guy's anything more than a no-hoper.
We get to hear Sherwood, what a couple of times a week, maybe more if there's a midweek game, and for what a couple of minutes each time?It never ceases to amaze me that people can assume they know what happens in the dressing room or what players actually think. As for your suggestion that we should be competing with the likes of Bournmouth, Norwich and Watford. Well we've only played one of those teams and we beat them. I realise that's nothing to write home about but it's too early to suggest we can't get out of this situation
Whereas the players have to listen to this bullshit nonsense/ramblings of a madman/deflecting all blame away from himself/the revision of history/referring to himself in the third person, etc. more or less every day, and for what probably seems like for hours on end!
Now imagine you had a tosser like that in charge at work...wouldn't everyone rip the shit out of him behind his back, while basically having no respect for the poor sod whatsoever? Our players have probably decided Timmeh! is a complete twat with little or no chance of him still being there by the end of the season.
I didn't expect to get much from the game yesterday, we all should've realised that it's going to take time and some experimentation to find the right formation to fit the players we've bought. The club's been in a downward spiral for years now, and there's no overnight solution to that...However, I do expect that we should be able to compete with the likes of Bournemouth, Norwich, Watford et al and at least look like we might have enough to stay up. But the simple fact is we look nailed on for relegation at this rate, and I for one can't see any signs of progress, even the tiniest step on a learning curve, or any coherent tactical plan at all.
Seven games is probably not enough to fairly judge, but he makes such a twat of himself the whole time, it's hard not to come to the conclusion the guy's anything more than a no-hoper.
If we start the Stoke game with Gabby, Lescott and Westwood in the team we might as well just fire him on the spot because he hasn't a fucking clue.There may be something in that decision making process. If he starts those players then we're more than likely lose against Stoke, and if we do lose then we'll be bottom of the league by the end of October (if not sooner).
I agree John, he did a great job in keeping us up, and you're right he gave the whole club a lift after 3 years of that incompetent turd Lambert. But that doesn't mean he's going to work out as anything other than a short term caretaker type, I just don't think he's got the skills or ability to be successful long term I'm afraid. I could be wrong but it's not looking very promising. I think we could be deep in the brown stuff by the time October has finished, as I can't see us getting more than 3 points from the next 4 games.
I know the concept of 'gut feeling' is not exactly scientific, but when we appointed Keane my gut feeling was that it'd end in tears, relatively quickly.
I got the same gut feeling when we appointed Sherwood.
I agree John, he did a great job in keeping us up, and you're right he gave the whole club a lift after 3 years of that incompetent turd Lambert. But that doesn't mean he's going to work out as anything other than a short term caretaker type, I just don't think he's got the skills or ability to be successful long term I'm afraid. I could be wrong but it's not looking very promising. I think we could be deep in the brown stuff by the time October has finished, as I can't see us getting more than 3 points from the next 4 games.
I know the concept of 'gut feeling' is not exactly scientific, but when we appointed Keane my gut feeling was that it'd end in tears, relatively quickly.
I got the same gut feeling when we appointed Sherwood.
Your gut feeling the day we appointed Sherwood was that he would take us down,
he didn't he saved us
So forgive me for not taking to much notice of your gut feelings just yet
Back in the summer of 2012 Lambert was welcomed with open arms (by most) on the basis of (a) a relatively successful few years at Norwich and (b) not being McLeish. We were told that financial belt-tightening was in order and young and hungry new players would take us forward. On this basis the supporters cut Lambert a lot of slack, and in all my time as a Villa supporter (44 yrs and counting) I cannot remember the supporters as a whole showing more patience. Even after the disastrous Christmas 2012/January 2013 (the 15-0 Christmas defeats, Bradford, Millwall etc) the consensus was that Lambert should be given time. Our faith was not repaid. Two years were lost whilst Lambert fiddled, the club drifted, and Christian Benteke kept us afloat. After Lambert, the supporters won't get fooled again. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. We've seen the signs. Baffling team selections, poor in-game management, bizarre substitutions, individual errors, late goals conceded, defeat snatched from the jaws of victory, relentlessly bad home form and the manager coming out with comments in the media that make you wonder if he was at the same game as you. For Lambert, read Sherwood. We can't allow ourselves to sleepwalk in to the same drift. Despite the fact that we may have better quality players in the squad this time around there's little sign that Sherwood can build a team that can find a way to win premier league matches, and now there's no Benteke to come to the rescue. If results and performances do not pick up very quickly we will need to jettison Sherwood fast. Stoke is a must win, pure and simple, and if we don't get a decent return from Chelsea, Swansea and Tottenham, then he has to go.Nail on head
I agree John, he did a great job in keeping us up, and you're right he gave the whole club a lift after 3 years of that incompetent turd Lambert. But that doesn't mean he's going to work out as anything other than a short term caretaker type, I just don't think he's got the skills or ability to be successful long term I'm afraid. I could be wrong but it's not looking very promising. I think we could be deep in the brown stuff by the time October has finished, as I can't see us getting more than 3 points from the next 4 games.
I know the concept of 'gut feeling' is not exactly scientific, but when we appointed Keane my gut feeling was that it'd end in tears, relatively quickly.
I got the same gut feeling when we appointed Sherwood.
Your gut feeling the day we appointed Sherwood was that he would take us down,
he didn't he saved us
So forgive me for not taking to much notice of your gut feelings just yet
Get rid. The sooner we can get somebody else in who we will then also want to get rid of the better.
We are not a club that sacks in September.
The squad is probably stronger than last season but he doesn't seem to know his strongest team and fails to drop certain players who are under-performing.
I voted no but if we are stuck on 5/6 points after 10 games it would change to a yes as that would probably mean we would already be 5/6 points behind the club in 17th, we couldent let that situation continue, its all very well saying give Tim till Xmas but we could be bottom and terminal by then, next 3 games absolutely vital for Tim and Villa, we simply have to beat Stoke.
I don't think he should be axed yet and I don't think he will be. You don't back a manager in the summer window- a manager who came in at short notice last season, kept us up and got us to our first fa cup final in 15 years, let's not forget- and then sack him in October. That's just ridiculous. I'm sorry, I know everybody is entitled to their opinion, but sacking the manager, any manager, in October is pure crazy.
Robbo Its not like me to consider sacking a manager after 10 games and I am trying to hold my nerve but fear has
kicked in, I think I like many others are just completely worn out after the last 5 years which has sent me into panic
mode very early, I would love Tim to sort things out and prove doubters like me wrong, I'm just frightened thats all.
Most people on here said at the start of the season, we've got a new squad, new back room staff, we'll have a slow start, but they need time. And most people did say that. How much time he gets is a matter of conjecture, I'd say if we're adrift in January then maybe, probably yes. But give the guy a chance. October?
I don't think he should be axed yet and I don't think he will be. You don't back a manager in the summer window- a manager who came in at short notice last season, kept us up and got us to our first fa cup final in 15 years, let's not forget- and then sack him in October. That's just ridiculous. I'm sorry, I know everybody is entitled to their opinion, but sacking the manager, any manager, in October is pure crazy.
Robbo Its not like me to consider sacking a manager after 10 games and I am trying to hold my nerve but fear has
kicked in, I think I like many others are just completely worn out after the last 5 years which has sent me into panic
mode very early, I would love Tim to sort things out and prove doubters like me wrong, I'm just frightened thats all.
Most people on here said at the start of the season, we've got a new squad, new back room staff, we'll have a slow start, but they need time. And most people did say that. How much time he gets is a matter of conjecture, I'd say if we're adrift in January then maybe, probably yes. But give the guy a chance. October?
I voted no but if we are stuck on 5/6 points after 10 games it would change to a yes as that would probably mean we would already be 5/6 points behind the club in 17th, we couldent let that situation continue, its all very well saying give Tim till Xmas but we could be bottom and terminal by then, next 3 games absolutely vital for Tim and Villa, we simply have to beat Stoke.
This is my take as well, but I'd like to know what Wilkins is doing in his role as TS' assistant?
I don't think he should be axed yet and I don't think he will be. You don't back a manager in the summer window- a manager who came in at short notice last season, kept us up and got us to our first fa cup final in 15 years, let's not forget- and then sack him in October. That's just ridiculous. I'm sorry, I know everybody is entitled to their opinion, but sacking the manager, any manager, in October is pure crazy.
Most people on here said at the start of the season, we've got a new squad, new back room staff, we'll have a slow start, but they need time. And most people did say that. How much time he gets is a matter of conjecture, I'd say if we're adrift in January then maybe, probably yes. But give the guy a chance. October?
I don't think he should be axed yet and I don't think he will be. You don't back a manager in the summer window- a manager who came in at short notice last season, kept us up and got us to our first fa cup final in 15 years, let's not forget- and then sack him in October. That's just ridiculous. I'm sorry, I know everybody is entitled to their opinion, but sacking the manager, any manager, in October is pure crazy.
Most people on here said at the start of the season, we've got a new squad, new back room staff, we'll have a slow start, but they need time. And most people did say that. How much time he gets is a matter of conjecture, I'd say if we're adrift in January then maybe, probably yes. But give the guy a chance. October?
I'm not suggesting they sack him, but Fox & Lerner need to decide sharpish (December a the latest) - they can't leave it till February this time.
We've had to fit in a bunch of new players but that's not enough to excuse 5 points from 7 games.5 points would be nice!
he performed a minor miracle here last season and anyone saying otherwise was deluded about our plight back thenWe were in trouble but hardly a miracle. He moved us from 3rd to 4th bottom. We were not stranded at the bottom 10 points off safety.
I'm not saying the day won't come when we will need to see the back of him
But we would be a laughing stock if we fired him this early into the season, absolute laughing stock, knee jerk doesn't even begin to cover it
Can you imagine letting Sherwood go after 6 games and bringing Sam Alardyce in, you might as well put the Big Top over the ground and have done with it
we might be used to people laughing at our expense more than we wish, but we shouldn't be encouraging it
I'm not suggesting they sack him, but Fox & Lerner need to decide sharpish (December a the latest) - they can't leave it till February this time.
Tell us who would be the man for you, seriously. If some of us are going to defend him, we ought to know who his critics would prefer.
Tell us who would be the man for you, seriously. If some of us are going to defend him, we ought to know who his critics would prefer.
This really. Sacking the bloke is the easy part.
I know this is probably a knee-jerk reaction and proof that O'Leary was right we are all fickle etc etcWe really, really are though aren't we? I've lost count of the number of our 'supporters' that wrote Jordan Ayew off after a few substitute appearances, only to come full circle after a good half in the League Cup and then criticise the Manager for not starting him away at Anfield.
Tell us who would be the man for you, seriously. If some of us are going to defend him, we ought to know who his critics would prefer.
This really. Sacking the bloke is the easy part.
I'm not advocating change, but Marcelo Biesla.
How anyone can accuse our fan base of being fickle after the easy ride the last two numpties have got is beyond belief.I know this is probably a knee-jerk reaction and proof that O'Leary was right we are all fickle etc etcWe really, really are though aren't we? I've lost count of the number of our 'supporters' that wrote Jordan Ayew off after a few substitute appearances, only to come full circle after a good half in the League Cup and then criticise the Manager for not starting him away at Anfield.
Same goes for Gestede. Loads of our fans had written him-off as not good enough for the Premiership. It's September for Christ's sake. Everybody needs to calm down. Collectively, we're starting to sound worryingly similar to West Ham or Newcastle fans.
Tell us who would be the man for you, seriously. If some of us are going to defend him, we ought to know who his critics would prefer.
This really. Sacking the bloke is the easy part.
I'm not advocating change, but Marcelo Biesla.
I think talk of sacking is madness. He's lost our best two players and Vlaar. Major surgery was needed, not justa bit of tinkering. Some of the players he has bought in show real promise - in particular Amavi and Gueye. I think a lot of us have hopes that Veretout & Ayew will come good too. Jury out on Gestede, but he's found the net a few times.
He has a plan, but it will take a bit of time. Surely the last thing we need to to start the whole cycle again? I think we have a decent squad, lets see if the man who has put it together (at a net spend of virtually nil) can make it work hey?
How anyone can accuse our fan base of being fickle after the easy ride the last two numpties have got is beyond belief.
The lack of patience with Sherwood is in part driven by coming so close to going down, partly because we'd been to accommodating and accepting of all the bullshit and lies. There's just no appetite for it amongst a good proportion of people looking at the poll so far.
I know this is probably a knee-jerk reaction and proof that O'Leary was right we are all fickle etc etcWe really, really are though aren't we? I've lost count of the number of our 'supporters' that wrote Jordan Ayew off after a few substitute appearances, only to come full circle after a good half in the League Cup and then criticise the Manager for not starting him away at Anfield.
Same goes for Gestede. Loads of our fans had written him-off as not good enough for the Premiership. It's September for Christ's sake. Everybody needs to calm down. Collectively, we're starting to sound worryingly similar to West Ham or Newcastle fans.
Tell us who would be the man for you, seriously. If some of us are going to defend him, we ought to know who his critics would prefer.Fair question but one that I can not answer others may well have a name. Frankly I don't know I am a fairly simple passionate supporter of this great Club. At work if I had to replace one of my managers I will know exactly what I am looking. I normally have a list of potentials permanently in my mind just in case and it's not necessarily people I like and get on well with. I hope Fox and O'Reilly are calculating and single minded in protecting us and have a list of potential coaches,from any where is the world, who could take over.
I know this is probably a knee-jerk reaction and proof that O'Leary was right we are all fickle etc etcWe really, really are though aren't we? I've lost count of the number of our 'supporters' that wrote Jordan Ayew off after a few substitute appearances, only to come full circle after a good half in the League Cup and then criticise the Manager for not starting him away at Anfield.
Same goes for Gestede. Loads of our fans had written him-off as not good enough for the Premiership. It's September for Christ's sake. Everybody needs to calm down. Collectively, we're starting to sound worryingly similar to West Ham or Newcastle fans.
I don't get this "we're all fickle" nonsense, as if it's unique to Villa fans. Liverpool fans, Newcastle fans, Sunderland fans all seem to be in the same boat as us at the moment, in terms of being unhappy with their managers, yet they're loyal, knowledgeable and passionate while we're fickle.
Yeah, fair point, RussellC. I probably shouldn't have attached my rant to your post. I was really having a go at the people on here who lazily refer to O'Leary's quote about us. He was referring to us as fickle because we were pointing out his shortcomings.
I know this is probably a knee-jerk reaction and proof that O'Leary was right we are all fickle etc etcWe really, really are though aren't we? I've lost count of the number of our 'supporters' that wrote Jordan Ayew off after a few substitute appearances, only to come full circle after a good half in the League Cup and then criticise the Manager for not starting him away at Anfield.
Same goes for Gestede. Loads of our fans had written him-off as not good enough for the Premiership. It's September for Christ's sake. Everybody needs to calm down. Collectively, we're starting to sound worryingly similar to West Ham or Newcastle fans.
I know this is probably a knee-jerk reaction and proof that O'Leary was right we are all fickle etc etcWe really, really are though aren't we? I've lost count of the number of our 'supporters' that wrote Jordan Ayew off after a few substitute appearances, only to come full circle after a good half in the League Cup and then criticise the Manager for not starting him away at Anfield.
Same goes for Gestede. Loads of our fans had written him-off as not good enough for the Premiership. It's September for Christ's sake. Everybody needs to calm down. Collectively, we're starting to sound worryingly similar to West Ham or Newcastle fans.
Tell us who would be the man for you, seriously. If some of us are going to defend him, we ought to know who his critics would prefer.Fair question but one that I can not answer others may well have a name. Frankly I don't know I am a fairly simple passionate supporter of this great Club. At work if I had to replace one of my managers I will know exactly what I am looking. I normally have a list of potentials permanently in my mind just in case and it's not necessarily people I like and get on well with. I hope Fox and O'Reilly are calculating and single minded in protecting us and have a list of potential coaches,from any where is the world, who could take over.
I know this is probably a knee-jerk reaction and proof that O'Leary was right we are all fickle etc etcWe really, really are though aren't we? I've lost count of the number of our 'supporters' that wrote Jordan Ayew off after a few substitute appearances, only to come full circle after a good half in the League Cup and then criticise the Manager for not starting him away at Anfield.
Same goes for Gestede. Loads of our fans had written him-off as not good enough for the Premiership. It's September for Christ's sake. Everybody needs to calm down. Collectively, we're starting to sound worryingly similar to West Ham or Newcastle fans.
I don't worry about what other fans think of us. All fans want what's best for their team, and I can't believe anybody would be different after 5 years of such chronic under performance. So no, we're not fickle at all, just monumentally pissed off that we're in for yet another season of dire struggle.
I know this is probably a knee-jerk reaction and proof that O'Leary was right we are all fickle etc etcWe really, really are though aren't we? I've lost count of the number of our 'supporters' that wrote Jordan Ayew off after a few substitute appearances, only to come full circle after a good half in the League Cup and then criticise the Manager for not starting him away at Anfield.
Same goes for Gestede. Loads of our fans had written him-off as not good enough for the Premiership. It's September for Christ's sake. Everybody needs to calm down. Collectively, we're starting to sound worryingly similar to West Ham or Newcastle fans.
I don't worry about what other fans think of us. All fans want what's best for their team, and I can't believe anybody would be different after 5 years of such chronic under performance. So no, we're not fickle at all, just monumentally pissed off that we're in for It's September. We're nearly 25 pages into a thread about sacking the Manager.
The signings have been pretty good, I don't think anyone would argue with that. But what's concerning is that he doesn't appear to know what he wants to do with them. Maybe one of the reasons they're taking so much time to gel is because they're getting confused messages.
Tell us who would be the man for you, seriously. If some of us are going to defend him, we ought to know who his critics would prefer.
This really. Sacking the bloke is the easy part.
I'm not advocating change, but Marcelo Biesla.
Not so sure - the way he left Marseilles was very MON-esque
We've spent an absolute fortune on sacking and replacing Management teams under Lerner's stewardship. We've just had a summer with greater player-turnaround than ever before. Now, more than ever, the club is crying out for some stability and patience.No no. We had 3 seasons of stability under a wrong coach Lambert. That was more stable than the Forth bridge but all it did was waste 3 years. I don't want to waste anymore time on this so called stability and waste another season fighting relegation or worse getting relegated.
We've spent an absolute fortune on sacking and replacing Management teams under Lerner's stewardship. We've just had a summer with greater player-turnaround than ever before. Now, more than ever, the club is crying out for some stability and patience.No no. We had 3 seasons of stability under a wrong coach Lambert. That was more stable than the Forth bridge but all it did was waste 3 years. I don't want to waste anymore time on this so called stability and waste another season fighting relegation or worse getting relegated.
I agree... Tim's apparent need to employ subterfuge in his tactics and be 'different', leading to all this inconsistency, must have an effect on players' perception of their roles and ultimately of their trust in him to set the team up correctly. Ironically, he seemed to come in with a 'set things up simply and let players play to their strengths' philosophy and is now moving away from that.
I agree... Tim's apparent need to employ subterfuge in his tactics and be 'different', leading to all this inconsistency, must have an effect on players' perception of their roles and ultimately of their trust in him to set the team up correctly. Ironically, he seemed to come in with a 'set things up simply and let players play to their strengths' philosophy and is now moving away from that.
How anyone can accuse our fan base of being fickle after the easy ride the last two numpties have got is beyond belief.
The lack of patience with Sherwood is in part driven by coming so close to going down, partly because we'd been to accommodating and accepting of all the bullshit and lies. There's just no appetite for it amongst a good proportion of people looking at the poll so far.
So the lack of patience afforded to Sherwood is due to the performances of his predecessors? And that seems fair to you?
As for fickleness, I re-iterate my point; I lost count of the number of "We've signed the wrong Ayew" comments I've read and heard this season. Skip forward a week and Sherwood's being criticised for leaving him on the bench!
It's September. We're nearly 25 pages into a thread about sacking the Manager and I've not seen one realistic suggestion of a emplacement who would justify the cost and upheaval. If that's not knee-jerk then I don't know what is.
There's plenty of people out there who could be a good fit.
There's plenty of people out there who could be a good fit.
So you're not prepared to allow the current Manager a reasonable amount of patience but want to spend a fortune to bring in a Foreign Manager with no Premiership experience at all? Following the pattern, we'd then give that Manager what, 20 games, before going through the process again if it wasn't working?
What was it that Tom Fox said about flipping a coin again...?
Pretty sure Middlesbrough had only two points at a fairly early stage of the season and survived.
We've spent an absolute fortune on sacking and replacing Management teams under Lerner's stewardship. We've just had a summer with greater player-turnaround than ever before. Now, more than ever, the club is crying out for some stability and patience.No no. We had 3 seasons of stability under a wrong coach Lambert. That was more stable than the Forth bridge but all it did was waste 3 years. I don't want to waste anymore time on this so called stability and waste another season fighting relegation or worse getting relegated.
So have we been stable for 3 seasons or fighting relegation? Because they're 2 different things in my book.
Pretty sure Middlesbrough had only two points at a fairly early stage of the season and survived.
there are still 93 points to play for , please please please :-[
There's plenty of people out there who could be a good fit.
So you're not prepared to allow the current Manager a reasonable amount of patience but want to spend a fortune to bring in a Foreign Manager with no Premiership experience at all? Following the pattern, we'd then give that Manager what, 20 games, before going through the process again if it wasn't working?
What was it that Tom Fox said about flipping a coin again...?
Pretty sure Middlesbrough had only two points at a fairly early stage of the season and survived.
So have we been stable for 3 seasons or fighting relegation? Because they're 2 different things in my book.Stability in football is described as not changing manager and allowing the appointed person time to sort things out. We did that by sticking with Lambert for 3 seasons.
So have we been stable for 3 seasons or fighting relegation? Because they're 2 different things in my book.Stability in football is described as not changing manager and allowing the appointed person time to sort things out. We did that by sticking with Lambert for 3 seasons.
Fighting relegation is just the state of performance similar to fighting to get in the Champions League or actually trying to win the title. Stability produced very poor performance for us whereas for Arsenal, for example, it delivered consistent Champions League football. Chelsea however maintained a very high level of performance without having stability in their coaching staff. Crystal Palace have done much better than us by changing Managers.
So have we been stable for 3 seasons or fighting relegation? Because they're 2 different things in my book.Stability in football is described as not changing manager and allowing the appointed person time to sort things out. We did that by sticking with Lambert for 3 seasons.
Fighting relegation is just the state of performance similar to fighting to get in the Champions League or actually trying to win the title. Stability produced very poor performance for us whereas for Arsenal, for example, it delivered consistent Champions League football. Chelsea however maintained a very high level of performance without having stability in their coaching staff. Crystal Palace have done much better than us by changing Managers.
Sorry, but the idea that constantly fighting relegation equates to 'stability' is utter nonsense. The threat of relegation carries hugely negative financial implications, completely the opposite to consistently challenging for the Title or Champions League qualification. Surely you can see that?
There's plenty of people out there who could be a good fit.
So you're not prepared to allow the current Manager a reasonable amount of patience but want to spend a fortune to bring in a Foreign Manager with no Premiership experience at all? Following the pattern, we'd then give that Manager what, 20 games, before going through the process again if it wasn't working?
What was it that Tom Fox said about flipping a coin again...?
It all depends what you term a reasonable amount of patience. Say we pick up one point from the next three games, what then? I can't imagine many teams have stayed up after taking 5 points from their first ten games, so at what point do you call it quits? Of course, we might do much better than that and of course I hope he rams my words down my throat with at least 7 points. But my question is at what point if this poor run continues do you let him go? In my doomsday scenario above, it would still be mid October.
The thing that grates me about this thread is that so few are prepared to entertain the idea that Sherwood might learn from his mistakes. Against Leicester he was rightfully criticised for his substitutions. Our excellent first-half performance has largely been forgotten because of the result. Against the Blose he made 2 game-changing ones that won us the game. Yet much of the focus is still on our poor first-half performance, rather than the result. See where I’m coming from?
So have we been stable for 3 seasons or fighting relegation? Because they're 2 different things in my book.Stability in football is described as not changing manager and allowing the appointed person time to sort things out. We did that by sticking with Lambert for 3 seasons.
Fighting relegation is just the state of performance similar to fighting to get in the Champions League or actually trying to win the title. Stability produced very poor performance for us whereas for Arsenal, for example, it delivered consistent Champions League football. Chelsea however maintained a very high level of performance without having stability in their coaching staff. Crystal Palace have done much better than us by changing Managers.
Sorry, but the idea that constantly fighting relegation equates to 'stability' is utter nonsense. The threat of relegation carries hugely negative financial implications, completely the opposite to consistently challenging for the Title or Champions League qualification. Surely you can see that?
I think you've missed the point Russell. I don't think for one minute Olly is calling that kind of stability anything to be pleased about.
So have we been stable for 3 seasons or fighting relegation? Because they're 2 different things in my book.Stability in football is described as not changing manager and allowing the appointed person time to sort things out. We did that by sticking with Lambert for 3 seasons.
Fighting relegation is just the state of performance similar to fighting to get in the Champions League or actually trying to win the title. Stability produced very poor performance for us whereas for Arsenal, for example, it delivered consistent Champions League football. Chelsea however maintained a very high level of performance without having stability in their coaching staff. Crystal Palace have done much better than us by changing Managers.
Sorry, but the idea that constantly fighting relegation equates to 'stability' is utter nonsense. The threat of relegation carries hugely negative financial implications, completely the opposite to consistently challenging for the Title or Champions League qualification. Surely you can see that?
I think you've missed the point Russell. I don't think for one minute Olly is calling that kind of stability anything to be pleased about.
But it's not even stability. 'Consistent' maybe. (as in 'consistently unstable'), but then I'm not really sure what point is being made and I've therefore missed? Lambert's tenure was littered with instability. The bomb-squad, the coaching staff debacle, Benteke's transfer request, an owner who did, didn't, did want to sell the club. You're not really telling me that Sherwood walked into a 'stable' club or situation are you?
There's plenty of people out there who could be a good fit.
So you're not prepared to allow the current Manager a reasonable amount of patience but want to spend a fortune to bring in a Foreign Manager with no Premiership experience at all? Following the pattern, we'd then give that Manager what, 20 games, before going through the process again if it wasn't working?
What was it that Tom Fox said about flipping a coin again...?
It all depends what you term a reasonable amount of patience. Say we pick up one point from the next three games, what then? I can't imagine many teams have stayed up after taking 5 points from their first ten games, so at what point do you call it quits? Of course, we might do much better than that and of course I hope he rams my words down my throat with at least 7 points. But my question is at what point if this poor run continues do you let him go? In my doomsday scenario above, it would still be mid October.
That's the tricky thing.
My preference is to sack him now. Harsh, I know, but I just think he's so out of his depth he won't improve.
Having said that, if we give him time, like you said, we have to be careful how much time that is. It is difficult to say something like "Christmas" when we don't know what will have happened.
How would people feel having said give him till Christmas only for us to now lose our next few matches - as you said?
Lambert got an absurd amount of time. The first two seasons were bad enough to get most managers sacked, the third was so awful it defies description, and look how long they left him in place. Far too long.
That is what is key to me in this situation. I've had enough of managers who clearly can't hack it getting far too long in the job, while we just poke around the relegation places year after year. We should have better standards than this.
If we want this doubt and ill feeling towards Sherwood to go away, there is only one person who can change that - Sherwood. He needs to get us winning games. Who knows, perhaps we'll put together back to back league wins again?
What about Albion? And Liverpool, for that matter? And Sunderland - that's Sunderland, one of the worst sides the top flight has seen in a long time, who we couldn't beat at home.
I think a good part of the reason that sherwood isn't getting the patience afforded to other managers is that he was a much more divisive appointment than, say, lambert at the time. For me at least, I want him gone because the very concerns that I had about him are coming to pass, with precious little signs of any improvement (in fact it's getting progressively worse).
I think the aim was to not chop and change with Lambert. Thats the aim of stability to ride through some of the ups and downs. Look at it a bit like a stock that you invest in. Even if it improves over time when looked at in years of growth it can still have ups and downs in between. In the case of Lambert the desire for stability in the manager position was driving our value down to ultimately relegation. Nobody wanted that and we sold just before we all lost our shirts.
That told me he was capable of what he hoped he was capable of. Unfortunately he simply hasn't built on it despite being afforded the liberty of bringing in his own players.
The signings have been pretty good, I don't think anyone would argue with that. But what's concerning is that he doesn't appear to know what he wants to do with them. Maybe one of the reasons they're taking so much time to gel is because they're getting confused messages.
That told me he was capable of what he hoped he was capable of. Unfortunately he simply hasn't built on it despite being afforded the liberty of bringing in his own players.
When I read things like this I genuinely think that some of our Supporters have just forgotten that we lost 4 of our best players in the summer.
"Afforded the liberty of bringing in his own players"?? Come on - that's not serious is it?
That told me he was capable of what he hoped he was capable of. Unfortunately he simply hasn't built on it despite being afforded the liberty of bringing in his own players.
When I read things like this I genuinely think that some of our Supporters have just forgotten that we lost 4 of our best players in the summer.
"Afforded the liberty of bringing in his own players"?? Come on - that's not serious is it?
of the players we lost Benteke is by far the best of the lot. As for the others; Delph possibly though I would say Gana is every bit as good, Vlaar and Cleverley - what have we really lost? And off course he's brought in his own players or have you missed the past few months?
The pertinent thing for me here is that it's now Page 28 and I still haven't seen one single viable alternative suggested. And I don't mean hypothetically, I mean realistically. I mean a Manager who is going to come in and justify the cost of sacking Sherwood and his backroom team and as-close-as-possible guarantee an immediate improvement. One who, if you were Tom Fox, you'd genuinely and honestly flip the coin for.
The pertinent thing for me here is that it's now Page 28 and I still haven't seen one single viable alternative suggested. And I don't mean hypothetically, I mean realistically. I mean a Manager who is going to come in and justify the cost of sacking Sherwood and his backroom team and as-close-as-possible guarantee an immediate improvement. One who, if you were Tom Fox, you'd genuinely and honestly flip the coin for.
The pertinent thing for me here is that it's now Page 28 and I still haven't seen one single viable alternative suggested. And I don't mean hypothetically, I mean realistically. I mean a Manager who is going to come in and justify the cost of sacking Sherwood and his backroom team and as-close-as-possible guarantee an immediate improvement. One who, if you were Tom Fox, you'd genuinely and honestly flip the coin for.
Allardyce.
(I voted stick with Sherwood for now - but I'd go for Allardyce at the drop of hat. He knows how to stay in the division, West Ham played decent football).
The pertinent thing for me here is that it's now Page 28 and I still haven't seen one single viable alternative suggested. And I don't mean hypothetically, I mean realistically. I mean a Manager who is going to come in and justify the cost of sacking Sherwood and his backroom team and as-close-as-possible guarantee an immediate improvement. One who, if you were Tom Fox, you'd genuinely and honestly flip the coin for.
Allardyce.
Wasting your time.The pertinent thing for me here is that it's now Page 28 and I still haven't seen one single viable alternative suggested. And I don't mean hypothetically, I mean realistically. I mean a Manager who is going to come in and justify the cost of sacking Sherwood and his backroom team and as-close-as-possible guarantee an immediate improvement. One who, if you were Tom Fox, you'd genuinely and honestly flip the coin for.
People who were still supporting Lambert last season said the same thing, but we found somebody who for a short period at least, performed much better than the miserable Scot. And I'm not a big fan of the game playing that is the main reason for asking people who want a manager sacked to name somebody else, as it's always far too easy to come up with reasons NOT to appoint somebody, but there are some good coaches out there, so I hereby submit the name of Thomas Schaaf for your ridicule.
The pertinent thing for me here is that it's now Page 28 and I still haven't seen one single viable alternative suggested. And I don't mean hypothetically, I mean realistically. I mean a Manager who is going to come in and justify the cost of sacking Sherwood and his backroom team and as-close-as-possible guarantee an immediate improvement. One who, if you were Tom Fox, you'd genuinely and honestly flip the coin for.
People who were still supporting Lambert last season said the same thing, but we found somebody who for a short period at least, performed much better than the miserable Scot. And I'm not a big fan of the game playing that is the main reason for asking people who want a manager sacked to name somebody else, as it's always far too easy to come up with reasons NOT to appoint somebody, but there are some good coaches out there, so I hereby submit the name of Thomas Schaaf for your ridicule.
That told me he was capable of what he hoped he was capable of. Unfortunately he simply hasn't built on it despite being afforded the liberty of bringing in his own players.
When I read things like this I genuinely think that some of our Supporters have just forgotten that we lost 4 of our best players in the summer.
"Afforded the liberty of bringing in his own players"?? Come on - that's not serious is it?
of the players we lost Benteke is by far the best of the lot. As for the others; Delph possibly though I would say Gana is every bit as good, Vlaar and Cleverley - what have we really lost? And off course he's brought in his own players or have you missed the past few months?
Gana looks promising but he's done absolutely nothing to say he's 'every bit as good as Delph'. Vlaar and Cleverley were both very good players who'd still walk (or even limp) into our starting XI if they were still employed by us.
And of course he's brought players in. He's had to. He lost the spine from the worst team in the league. To make it sound as though he's been privileged or lucky to be able to re-invest those funds though doesn't add up. We had the 19th highest net spend in the country this summer (Sheff Wed out-spent us). That isn't conjecture, or spin, that's a fact.
For all of the criticism that can be pushed in Sherwood's direction, the idea that he had carte-blanche in the transfer market in the summer isn't a fair one.
The pertinent thing for me here is that it's now Page 28 and I still haven't seen one single viable alternative suggested. And I don't mean hypothetically, I mean realistically. I mean a Manager who is going to come in and justify the cost of sacking Sherwood and his backroom team and as-close-as-possible guarantee an immediate improvement. One who, if you were Tom Fox, you'd genuinely and honestly flip the coin for.
Allardyce.
(I voted stick with Sherwood for now - but I'd go for Allardyce at the drop of hat. He knows how to stay in the division, West Ham played decent football).
The pertinent thing for me here is that it's now Page 28 and I still haven't seen one single viable alternative suggested. And I don't mean hypothetically, I mean realistically. I mean a Manager who is going to come in and justify the cost of sacking Sherwood and his backroom team and as-close-as-possible guarantee an immediate improvement. One who, if you were Tom Fox, you'd genuinely and honestly flip the coin for.
People who were still supporting Lambert last season said the same thing, but we found somebody who for a short period at least, performed much better than the miserable Scot. And I'm not a big fan of the game playing that is the main reason for asking people who want a manager sacked to name somebody else, as it's always far too easy to come up with reasons NOT to appoint somebody, but there are some good coaches out there, so I hereby submit the name of Thomas Schaaf for your ridicule.
I think the general consensus after 3 years of Lambert was "anybody but him." But then, he'd been given a fair-crack of the whip. Numerous transfer-windows, numerous changes of back-room staff (some by choice) and had proven himself to be incapable. As I said earlier, it's not fair to judge Sherwood by Lambert's failings unless we apply the same timescales.
As for asking for suggested replacements, it's not a game, it's a fairly integral part of any decision to be made about the sacking of the current Manager at such an early stage of the season.
As for Schaaf, I know little or nothing about him.What, specifically about him, makes you think that a) he'd come to us or b) he'd be an improvement?
That told me he was capable of what he hoped he was capable of. Unfortunately he simply hasn't built on it despite being afforded the liberty of bringing in his own players.
When I read things like this I genuinely think that some of our Supporters have just forgotten that we lost 4 of our best players in the summer.
"Afforded the liberty of bringing in his own players"?? Come on - that's not serious is it?
of the players we lost Benteke is by far the best of the lot. As for the others; Delph possibly though I would say Gana is every bit as good, Vlaar and Cleverley - what have we really lost? And off course he's brought in his own players or have you missed the past few months?
Gana looks promising but he's done absolutely nothing to say he's 'every bit as good as Delph'. Vlaar and Cleverley were both very good players who'd still walk (or even limp) into our starting XI if they were still employed by us.
And of course he's brought players in. He's had to. He lost the spine from the worst team in the league. To make it sound as though he's been privileged or lucky to be able to re-invest those funds though doesn't add up. We had the 19th highest net spend in the country this summer (Sheff Wed out-spent us). That isn't conjecture, or spin, that's a fact.
For all of the criticism that can be pushed in Sherwood's direction, the idea that he had carte-blanche in the transfer market in the summer isn't a fair one.
He bought in 14 players or something like that. Why does it matter what they cost? I would argue we did a damn good job getting them in at the price that we did which helped our net spend be what it is. I will always argue this because I don't see the relevance of net spend. For me it is what you get for the price paid, and it isn't just about the price paid and it's affect on net spend. I honestly think sometimes if we spent 20m more on the same players some people would feel a lot happier because the net spend looks better even if it doesn't make one bit of difference. The fact is we have some good players at the club now and we are not using them properly or as well as we could. Some of that is simply down to integration, and some of that is down to the manager not making good decisions. Ultimately it is leading to the same thing that we are in the bottom three when with better decisions we should be 6 or 7 spots higher.
What is clear though, is that there comes a certain point when it's clear that a manager IS going to take you down, and we had hit that point with Lambert last season. Sherwood came in and did well enough to keep us up, and for that I will be forever monumentally grateful, but I think he's been desperately shit this season, and there's no room for sentiment in football.
To be absolutely truthful, it would be silly to get rid of him now, but I honestly don't think we're far off reaching the point of no return if he doesn't improve performances by at least 50%. Lose to Stoke and Chelsea and it would be an enormous task to turn things round, and one that I don't think he'd be capable of. But we'll see in a couple of weeks I suppose where we are. Just to reiterate, I hope he proves me wrong, as I do want him to succeed. I've had enough of sacking managers, but not as much as I've had enough of us pissing about in the bottom four or five places in the league.
Net spend is largely irrelevant. Sherwood has brought in lots of players, very few of whom weren't decent money, and he and everybody else on here seemed content with the business. I think Gueye is at least as good as Delph, because what exactly did Snakeboy contribute in his three years here? Hardly anything tangible in the way of assists and goals.
Benteke is a huge loss, but this for me is Sherwood's biggest failing, because he repalced him with an immobile lower division lump, albeit one who knows how to plant a header, and somebody who doesn't really seem sure if he's a striker or a winger. That's probably the one position where he should have gone out and got somebody of proven quality.
Sorry, but the idea that constantly fighting relegation equates to 'stability' is utter nonsense. The threat of relegation carries hugely negative financial implications, completely the opposite to consistently challenging for the Title or Champions League qualification. Surely you can see that?No I can't. You are mixing stability with performance level. All teams in the league have the same pressure. Believe me regular CL teams are just as terrified of missing out on top four as the rest are on being relegated from PL.
Net spend is largely irrelevant. Sherwood has brought in lots of players, very few of whom weren't decent money, and he and everybody else on here seemed content with the business. I think Gueye is at least as good as Delph, because what exactly did Snakeboy contribute in his three years here? Hardly anything tangible in the way of assists and goals.
Benteke is a huge loss, but this for me is Sherwood's biggest failing, because he repalced him with an immobile lower division lump, albeit one who knows how to plant a header, and somebody who doesn't really seem sure if he's a striker or a winger. That's probably the one position where he should have gone out and got somebody of proven quality.
Which would have cost more? Which shows the relevance of net spend...
it doesn't. It just means we should have bought a forward. In fact Benteke is a perfect example against the notion of net spend. There have been plenty of forwards bought for much more than we spent on Benteke without close to the same level of return. In fact had we spent four times as much on him we'd still be ahead. The fact is we used our available resources to find a player that for not very much was superb. We could have bought someone else for twice the price and not had anything like the same performance. In simplistic terms I would argue this season instead of bringing in Ayew and Gestede for example we'd be better off for a little bit more getting Austin. Our net spend would have been much the same but we'd have a player who scores goals. We create chances but don't convert as many as we should. That has been Sherwood's main transfer failing.
Sorry, but the idea that constantly fighting relegation equates to 'stability' is utter nonsense. The threat of relegation carries hugely negative financial implications, completely the opposite to consistently challenging for the Title or Champions League qualification. Surely you can see that?No I can't. You are mixing stability with performance level. All teams in the league have the same pressure. Believe me regular CL teams are just as terrified of missing out on top four as the rest are on being relegated from PL.
Sorry, but the idea that constantly fighting relegation equates to 'stability' is utter nonsense. The threat of relegation carries hugely negative financial implications, completely the opposite to consistently challenging for the Title or Champions League qualification. Surely you can see that?No I can't. You are mixing stability with performance level. All teams in the league have the same pressure. Believe me regular CL teams are just as terrified of missing out on top four as the rest are on being relegated from PL.
Whatever. It doesn't alter the fact that Sherwood walked into a club that were/are perennial relegation battlers. Which is the point I'm making.
Net spend is largely irrelevant. Sherwood has brought in lots of players, very few of whom weren't decent money, and he and everybody else on here seemed content with the business. I think Gueye is at least as good as Delph, because what exactly did Snakeboy contribute in his three years here? Hardly anything tangible in the way of assists and goals.
Benteke is a huge loss, but this for me is Sherwood's biggest failing, because he repalced him with an immobile lower division lump, albeit one who knows how to plant a header, and somebody who doesn't really seem sure if he's a striker or a winger. That's probably the one position where he should have gone out and got somebody of proven quality.
Which would have cost more? Which shows the relevance of net spend...
it doesn't. It just means we should have bought a forward. In fact Benteke is a perfect example against the notion of net spend. There have been plenty of forwards bought for much more than we spent on Benteke without close to the same level of return. In fact had we spent four times as much on him we'd still be ahead. The fact is we used our available resources to find a player that for not very much was superb. We could have bought someone else for twice the price and not had anything like the same performance. In simplistic terms I would argue this season instead of bringing in Ayew and Gestede for example we'd be better off for a little bit more getting Austin. Our net spend would have been much the same but we'd have a player who scores goals. We create chances but don't convert as many as we should. That has been Sherwood's main transfer failing.
He did indeed, and that was never going to be turned round over night. However, the end to last season and the start to this has been woeful, and whatever he said after the Liverpool game at the weekend, his view last season was that this wasn't going to be another season of struggle. He's actually given us the worst start to a season since we last went down, and needs to turn things round quick smart.
Scoring goals is not really the problem though is it at the moment? It's keeping them out which is buggering us up. Throw in one or two of Sherwood's blunders and we are where are. It can change though because overall, under Sherwood, we don't look too bad a side.
Scoring goals is not really the problem though is it at the moment? It's keeping them out which is buggering us up. Throw in one or two of Sherwood's blunders and we are where are. It can change though because overall, under Sherwood, we don't look too bad a side.
Yet, there we are, second from bottom. Don't get me wrong, I take your point, sometimes we look decent. We looked more than decent at Leicester until Tim tried to change some things.
The "looked good for spells" argument (not saying you are talking about this, but in general) - how often have we heard that precise sentence over the last few years? Fuck knows. Lots.
The problem is, you don't get points for a decent half here and there, it takes much more than that.
Scoring goals is not really the problem though is it at the moment? It's keeping them out which is buggering us up. Throw in one or two of Sherwood's blunders and we are where are. It can change though because overall, under Sherwood, we don't look too bad a side.
Yet, there we are, second from bottom. Don't get me wrong, I take your point, sometimes we look decent. We looked more than decent at Leicester until Tim tried to change some things.
The "looked good for spells" argument (not saying you are talking about this, but in general) - how often have we heard that precise sentence over the last few years? Fuck knows. Lots.
The problem is, you don't get points for a decent half here and there, it takes much more than that.
it doesn't. It just means we should have bought a forward. In fact Benteke is a perfect example against the notion of net spend. There have been plenty of forwards bought for much more than we spent on Benteke without close to the same level of return. In fact had we spent four times as much on him we'd still be ahead. The fact is we used our available resources to find a player that for not very much was superb. We could have bought someone else for twice the price and not had anything like the same performance. In simplistic terms I would argue this season instead of bringing in Ayew and Gestede for example we'd be better off for a little bit more getting Austin. Our net spend would have been much the same but we'd have a player who scores goals. We create chances but don't convert as many as we should. That has been Sherwood's main transfer failing.
But how often does a Benteke come along? We can;t just expect the club to unearth a gem like that every summer. That's just pie in the sky stuff. Because we bought Beneteke for £7m and sold him for £32.5 net spend should no longer be a consideration for transfer-budgets?
I just don’t understand this blind-eye people are willing to turn to net spend. It’s like me telling you you’ve got £100k to make improvements to your house, but then knocking down your garage and setting fire to your kitchen. You’re not going to improve your house by the overall spend, are you? Now imagine your house is already the shittest house on the block...
Scoring goals is not really the problem though is it at the moment? It's keeping them out which is buggering us up. Throw in one or two of Sherwood's blunders and we are where are. It can change though because overall, under Sherwood, we don't look too bad a side.
Yet, there we are, second from bottom. Don't get me wrong, I take your point, sometimes we look decent. We looked more than decent at Leicester until Tim tried to change some things.
The "looked good for spells" argument (not saying you are talking about this, but in general) - how often have we heard that precise sentence over the last few years? Fuck knows. Lots.
The problem is, you don't get points for a decent half here and there, it takes much more than that.
Yes I know, but there's promise there. I'd be more worried if we creating nothing at all. We were coasting at Leicester and despite playing really poorly on saturday, we managed to somehow score two. It's not good enough at the moment, but there are signs there that it could be given time. We were dire under McLeish and Lambert. I don't think we are under Sherwood, just very naive at times.
it doesn't. It just means we should have bought a forward. In fact Benteke is a perfect example against the notion of net spend. There have been plenty of forwards bought for much more than we spent on Benteke without close to the same level of return. In fact had we spent four times as much on him we'd still be ahead. The fact is we used our available resources to find a player that for not very much was superb. We could have bought someone else for twice the price and not had anything like the same performance. In simplistic terms I would argue this season instead of bringing in Ayew and Gestede for example we'd be better off for a little bit more getting Austin. Our net spend would have been much the same but we'd have a player who scores goals. We create chances but don't convert as many as we should. That has been Sherwood's main transfer failing.
But how often does a Benteke come along? We can;t just expect the club to unearth a gem like that every summer. That's just pie in the sky stuff. Because we bought Beneteke for £7m and sold him for £32.5 net spend should no longer be a consideration for transfer-budgets?
I just don’t understand this blind-eye people are willing to turn to net spend. It’s like me telling you you’ve got £100k to make improvements to your house, but then knocking down your garage and setting fire to your kitchen. You’re not going to improve your house by the overall spend, are you? Now imagine your house is already the shittest house on the block...
If you have £100k to improve your house but you really need £200k you make as many good choices as you can within your budget until such time as you can invest more. Also while making those choices, if two blokes offer you very similar kitchen cabinets, you're not going to go and spend 30% more just because it makes you feel better, or so you can tell your neighbour you spent more.
And it was a very similar overhaul job he had to complete when he came in - I remember him describing the club as a shambles. It was close to that under Lambert.
He did indeed, and that was never going to be turned round over night. However, the end to last season and the start to this has been woeful, and whatever he said after the Liverpool game at the weekend, his view last season was that this wasn't going to be another season of struggle. He's actually given us the worst start to a season since we last went down, and needs to turn things round quick smart.
I'd imagine that when Sherwood said that he probably thought he'd have Vlaar, Delph, Cleverley and around £40m to play around with in the forthcoming summer.
That said, I fully agree that we need an upturn in results and soon. Very soon.
I see the OS is spinning the "youthful side" bullshit again today.
The average age of the side that started against Liverpool was 26. Hardly an U21 team ffs.
I see the OS is spinning the "youthful side" bullshit again today.
The average age of the side that started against Liverpool was 26. Hardly an U21 team ffs.
Talking out of his arse. Going on about players who are both young and haven't played in England before.
All of the following who started at the weekend are neither young (in the footballing sense of the word) nor lacking experience in English football:
Guzan, Hutton, Richards, Lescott, Sanchez, Gestede, Sinclair, Westwood. And of the others, Amavi (both young and foreign) has probably been our most consistent player this season. It isn't youth and inexperience that's been costing us, it's been poor organisation, individual mistakes, rubbish tactics and inexplicable substitutions, plus sticking with tediously shit players like Gabby (again, both English and not young).
it doesn't. It just means we should have bought a forward. In fact Benteke is a perfect example against the notion of net spend. There have been plenty of forwards bought for much more than we spent on Benteke without close to the same level of return. In fact had we spent four times as much on him we'd still be ahead. The fact is we used our available resources to find a player that for not very much was superb. We could have bought someone else for twice the price and not had anything like the same performance. In simplistic terms I would argue this season instead of bringing in Ayew and Gestede for example we'd be better off for a little bit more getting Austin. Our net spend would have been much the same but we'd have a player who scores goals. We create chances but don't convert as many as we should. That has been Sherwood's main transfer failing.
But how often does a Benteke come along? We can;t just expect the club to unearth a gem like that every summer. That's just pie in the sky stuff. Because we bought Beneteke for £7m and sold him for £32.5 net spend should no longer be a consideration for transfer-budgets?
I just don’t understand this blind-eye people are willing to turn to net spend. It’s like me telling you you’ve got £100k to make improvements to your house, but then knocking down your garage and setting fire to your kitchen. You’re not going to improve your house by the overall spend, are you? Now imagine your house is already the shittest house on the block...
If you have £100k to improve your house but you really need £200k you make as many good choices as you can within your budget until such time as you can invest more. Also while making those choices, if two blokes offer you very similar kitchen cabinets, you're not going to go and spend 30% more just because it makes you feel better, or so you can tell your neighbour you spent more.
If you're competing for best house in the road (or at least aiming not to be amongst the 3 worse ones) you probably are.
Let's take Saturday for instance. There's no way we should be letting them score straight after we pulled it back to 2-1, that's where the naivety comes in and we need to cut that kind of thing out. We were very poor on Saturday but with a bit more nous, we could have got a point we probably wouldn't have deserved.
I don't think he should be axed yet and I don't think he will be. You don't back a manager in the summer window- a manager who came in at short notice last season, kept us up and got us to our first fa cup final in 15 years, let's not forget- and then sack him in October. That's just ridiculous. I'm sorry, I know everybody is entitled to their opinion, but sacking the manager, any manager, in October is pure crazy.
Most people on here said at the start of the season, we've got a new squad, new back room staff, we'll have a slow start, but they need time. And most people did say that. How much time he gets is a matter of conjecture, I'd say if we're adrift in January then maybe, probably yes. But give the guy a chance. October?
Probably one of the most sensible thing i've read on here since Saturday night.
I don't think he should be axed yet and I don't think he will be. You don't back a manager in the summer window- a manager who came in at short notice last season, kept us up and got us to our first fa cup final in 15 years, let's not forget- and then sack him in October. That's just ridiculous. I'm sorry, I know everybody is entitled to their opinion, but sacking the manager, any manager, in October is pure crazy.
Most people on here said at the start of the season, we've got a new squad, new back room staff, we'll have a slow start, but they need time. And most people did say that. How much time he gets is a matter of conjecture, I'd say if we're adrift in January then maybe, probably yes. But give the guy a chance. October?
Probably one of the most sensible thing i've read on here since Saturday night.
Agreed. There appeared to be a consensus at the start of the season that we would need to be patient while the new players got up to speed with this league and learned how to play alongside each other. It still stands and I think the nature of our performances have reflected that and it will be a few months yet until we are in a position to make an informed judgement.
I don't think he should be axed yet and I don't think he will be. You don't back a manager in the summer window- a manager who came in at short notice last season, kept us up and got us to our first fa cup final in 15 years, let's not forget- and then sack him in October. That's just ridiculous. I'm sorry, I know everybody is entitled to their opinion, but sacking the manager, any manager, in October is pure crazy.
Most people on here said at the start of the season, we've got a new squad, new back room staff, we'll have a slow start, but they need time. And most people did say that. How much time he gets is a matter of conjecture, I'd say if we're adrift in January then maybe, probably yes. But give the guy a chance. October?
Probably one of the most sensible thing i've read on here since Saturday night.
Agreed. There appeared to be a consensus at the start of the season that we would need to be patient while the new players got up to speed with this league and learned how to play alongside each other. It still stands and I think the nature of our performances have reflected that and it will be a few months yet until we are in a position to make an informed judgement.
I actually think it would really help matters for fans to hear Sherwood say "It's been a learning process for all us. There are things we could all have done better and I include myself in that". Instead he has subtly pointed fingers at player errors and then patronized the fans by telling us to wait until next year, basically writing the season off. I don't think anyone had lofty expectations, but don't insult our intelligence. Villa fans have been incredibly patient and realistic and we want a manager that sticks by what he promised and not change his tune as soon as the going got rough.
We could well be totally adrift a long time before January.
i just don't like the bloke, he reminds me of a cowboy builder.
My real concern with Sherwood is he's inherited and put together on paper a very decent squad, the problem being he really doesn't know what to do with them. I understand that, he's got so many different options but no real solution for a good one but that was something he should have thought about back in the summer.
Look at our attacking players, we go direct with Gestede but is that the right way to go with those around him? What's the point of Grealish and Gil with that tactic? Pushing Sinclair out wide is a waste of a shirt as it's not playing to his strengths either. The last three games he's hardly been involved and the fault was not his.
Ayew is no winger, doesn't want to be, made it very known before he joined us but he gets pushed out wide too. Obviously he's not going to lead the line alone but may be he could be tried as a second centre forward but then that would mean dropping seven from Sinclair, Kozak, Gabby, Gil, Grealish, Adama, Westwood, Bacuna and Veretout (assuming Sanchez and Gueye are our two central midfielders). Of all those players Sherwood only signed two but rather have a plan in mind he seems to have gone with the Spurs approach of having hundreds of midfielders in his squad and no real plan.
I'm guessing he'll now persist with Gestede up front as he's scoring the goals, just as he did with Sinclair. Whilst it's great to have a striker playing with confidence, behind him is a big confusion that desperately needs somebody with a bit of footballing knowledge to sort out. Is Sherwood that man? I very much doubt it but by the end of next month we'll have a very good idea.
The pertinent thing for me here is that it's now Page 28 and I still haven't seen one single viable alternative suggested. And I don't mean hypothetically, I mean realistically. I mean a Manager who is going to come in and justify the cost of sacking Sherwood and his backroom team and as-close-as-possible guarantee an immediate improvement. One who, if you were Tom Fox, you'd genuinely and honestly flip the coin for.
Allardyce.
(I voted stick with Sherwood for now - but I'd go for Allardyce at the drop of hat. He knows how to stay in the division, West Ham played decent football).
Fucking hell.
The pertinent thing for me here is that it's now Page 28 and I still haven't seen one single viable alternative suggested. And I don't mean hypothetically, I mean realistically. I mean a Manager who is going to come in and justify the cost of sacking Sherwood and his backroom team and as-close-as-possible guarantee an immediate improvement. One who, if you were Tom Fox, you'd genuinely and honestly flip the coin for.
Allardyce.
(I voted stick with Sherwood for now - but I'd go for Allardyce at the drop of hat. He knows how to stay in the division, West Ham played decent football).
Fucking hell.
Care to explain?
...Maybe we need to get relegated.Maybe you do but I certainly don't
Maybe we need to get relegated.
The pertinent thing for me here is that it's now Page 28 and I still haven't seen one single viable alternative suggested. And I don't mean hypothetically, I mean realistically. I mean a Manager who is going to come in and justify the cost of sacking Sherwood and his backroom team and as-close-as-possible guarantee an immediate improvement. One who, if you were Tom Fox, you'd genuinely and honestly flip the coin for.
Allardyce.
(I voted stick with Sherwood for now - but I'd go for Allardyce at the drop of hat. He knows how to stay in the division, West Ham played decent football).
Fucking hell.
Care to explain?
I agree. If Sam Alladyrce did that good a job at West Ham, he'd still be there.
The pertinent thing for me here is that it's now Page 28 and I still haven't seen one single viable alternative suggested. And I don't mean hypothetically, I mean realistically. I mean a Manager who is going to come in and justify the cost of sacking Sherwood and his backroom team and as-close-as-possible guarantee an immediate improvement. One who, if you were Tom Fox, you'd genuinely and honestly flip the coin for.
Allardyce.
(I voted stick with Sherwood for now - but I'd go for Allardyce at the drop of hat. He knows how to stay in the division, West Ham played decent football).
Fucking hell.
Care to explain?
I agree. If Sam Alladyrce did that good a job at West Ham, he'd still be there.
I've highlighted the OP's question which I offered an answer for.
The way I see it he got sacked from West Ham for somehow failing to deliver a certain mythical style of football.
Well if the question is who would get better results, allardyce or Sherwood, I'm not sure the could be much debate, could there? I don't want him as manager, but allardyce has an undeniably better record than Tim.
A season and a half in which he has seemingly learned precious little
For the both the keep and undecided what would tip you into the P45 camp?
Without wishing to be too provocative for those who are definitely in the keep camp is that in hope or expectation that it will get better?
For those who say expectation, what leads you to expect an improvement?
For the both the keep and undecided what would tip you into the P45 camp?
Without wishing to be too provocative for those who are definitely in the keep camp is that in hope or expectation that it will get better?I'm in the keep camp. We are a work in progress, we have been crying out for years for some creativity in midfield, which we now have. Sherwood needs to find a settled team that knows how to win, and stop giving gifts to the opposition. Yes he has made mistakes, but he will learn. The players have also made mistakes, which have cost us. We are a better team than last season. We just need to win a few games. We will improve.
For those who say expectation, what leads you to expect an improvement?
For the both the keep and undecided what would tip you into the P45 camp?
Without wishing to be too provocative for those who are definitely in the keep camp is that in hope or expectation that it will get better?I'm in the keep camp. We are a work in progress, we have been crying out for years for some creativity in midfield, which we now have. Sherwood needs to find a settled team that knows how to win, and stop giving gifts to the opposition. Yes he has made mistakes, but he will learn. The players have also made mistakes, which have cost us. We are a better team than last season. We just need to win a few games. We will improve.
For those who say expectation, what leads you to expect an improvement?
For the both the keep and undecided what would tip you into the P45 camp?
Without wishing to be too provocative for those who are definitely in the keep camp is that in hope or expectation that it will get better?I'm in the keep camp. We are a work in progress, we have been crying out for years for some creativity in midfield, which we now have. Sherwood needs to find a settled team that knows how to win, and stop giving gifts to the opposition. Yes he has made mistakes, but he will learn. The players have also made mistakes, which have cost us. We are a better team than last season. We just need to win a few games. We will improve.
For those who say expectation, what leads you to expect an improvement?
For the both the keep and undecided what would tip you into the P45 camp?
For me it's the margins. We could and should have picked up points at Palace and Leicester and a win at home to Sunderland. We're approaching each game with a plan, even if it's not working, which is more than I saw under Lambert. I'm convinced we'll pick up enough points to be safe. I also think that, if we do, we could feasibly have the first close season in a long time where we're able to build on what we've got, not worry about players leaving and little or no cash being made available to spend.
Without wishing to be too provocative for those who are definitely in the keep camp is that in hope or expectation that it will get better?I'm in the keep camp. We are a work in progress, we have been crying out for years for some creativity in midfield, which we now have. Sherwood needs to find a settled team that knows how to win, and stop giving gifts to the opposition. Yes he has made mistakes, but he will learn. The players have also made mistakes, which have cost us. We are a better team than last season. We just need to win a few games. We will improve.
For those who say expectation, what leads you to expect an improvement?
For the both the keep and undecided what would tip you into the P45 camp?
I'm convinced we'll pick up enough points to be safe. I also think that, if we do, we could feasibly have the first close season in a long time where we're able to build on what we've got, not worry about players leaving and little or no cash being made available to spend.
After years of shite, should we be looking within for reasons we're so crap?
How many time can you be wrong about a manager before you realise it's not actually the managers fault?
And how much do fans play a part in this? Gary Monk was mentioned on a thread earlier. Imagine him coming to Villa Park and telling players they're going to pass, pass and pass no matter where they are on the pitch. Then imagine the fans shouting abuse at players from a short distance away telling them they're fucking useless and to get it forward. How long would he last?
Not saying it's the fans fault, but just putting different perspectives on things.
From your post, you are saying it is the fans' fault.
I am inclined to put the blame on the owner.
After years of shite, should we be looking within for reasons we're so crap?
How many time can you be wrong about a manager before you realise it's not actually the managers fault?
And how much do fans play a part in this? Gary Monk was mentioned on a thread earlier. Imagine him coming to Villa Park and telling players they're going to pass, pass and pass no matter where they are on the pitch. Then imagine the fans shouting abuse at players from a short distance away telling them they're fucking useless and to get it forward. How long would he last?
Not saying it's the fans fault, but just putting different perspectives on things.
From your post, you are saying it is the fans' fault.
I am inclined to put the blame on the owner.
Clearly not, as my last line states.
Fuck me, we've all but given up if our worst start in 30 years, since we last got relegated isn't considered a bad job.
Fuck me, we've all but given up if our worst start in 30 years, since we last got relegated isn't considered a bad job.
Same here.Fuck me, we've all but given up if our worst start in 30 years, since we last got relegated isn't considered a bad job.
Is it really? Honestly I hadn't noticed, given the amount of shit records broken the past few years a new one barely registers any more.
My patience has gone, it went a while ago, I can't be arsed with Jam tomorrow all the time, promises of better to come, the decent players will have fucked off again and we will be starting from scratch. I can't be arsed being an academy for inexperienced managers where they go through a litany of fuck ups in front of us with the hope they will learn from it.mate- I completely understand this and I'm as fucked off by it as you are, believe me. Just don't think the time is now to get rid. We've got to give him at least til Jan to fix up.
It's not Sherwoods fault in particular, although he's been a complete clown this season so far, it's more the collective weight of 5 years of fuck up after fuck up and incompetent decision after incompetent decision and I just have no time for it anymore. It's shit.
His interactions with the press remind me a lot of John Gregory - the need to attract attention seems to come before the substance of what he's actually saying. Yet he deserves at least half a season to get his team sorted out.Half a season could be too long though, if after 19 games we are say sub 15 points he needs to go or we will be dead and buried.
So you think he's doing an ok job?
The poll appears to have swung around since I last checked. More now wanting to hold fire.
Personally I felt he was a disastrous appointment and what is unfolding now doesn't surprise me in the least.
Perhaps the poll reflects a' better the devil you know' train of thought but I suspect in the long run this is one devil we will all regret knowing.
7 weeks ago almost everyone on here were back slapping Sherwood and Fox for the best Summer of business we had seen in years. Fast forward to now and Fox is getting ripped apart and 30% of people want Sherwood sacked immediately?! Honsetly, re-read those two sentences and try and comprehend how ridiculous it is. People really need to pull themselves together. Inexperenced manager, new young, inexperienced squad, best players have left the club on short notice. Honestly, what were people expecting? Yes, some results have gone the wrong way but it was always going to take time.
We have lost almost every game by one goal. There are strong signs of Ayew, Gestede, Richards, Veretout, Gana, Traore and Amavi getting up to speed and looking like really good additions. Exisiting players like Sanchez, Clarke and Gil seem to be coming on as well. We have good players like Okore coming back from injury and two players signed that we havent even seen yet.
I agree, we need to see an upturn in fortunes in the near future but hold your shit togther people, we will turn this round.
Totally agree Kuwait. He has too high a regard for his own communication skills. It is very hard for somebody who thinks they are silver tongued and witty to accept that they are not. Some people regard modesty as a form of loss of face when it is actually quite the reverse. See the calm and fair comments about the England rugby team by the Welsh skipper Warburton (who was in the thick of the titanic battle) with the delirious crowing of the welsh pundits. Sadly I can't see Sherwood improving his communication skills and time soon.
I would give him until the end of November. If we have no signs of improvement then he has to go. You don't sign so many players without any idea of how they might play together or what is the planned style of play. Unfortunately I cannot see sign of either of these. Get a new face in to assess the squad in December ready for the transfer window. Don't ask who tough as I wouldn't trust the board of AVFC to sign the best suited person for the job. Based on the other managerial appointments "which have been a joke". We were promised an attacking style of play and the removal of the loosing mentality ? We are now apparently aiming to stay in the premier league!!
I feel the pain will continue, until the club is sold and the whole direction of the club can be changed.
I think we may go down this season I will be very surprised if we stay up ( but God I hope I'm wrong )
I would give him until the end of November. If we have no signs of improvement then he has to go. You don't sign so many players without any idea of how they might play together or what is the planned style of play. Unfortunately I cannot see sign of either of these. Get a new face in to assess the squad in December ready for the transfer window. Don't ask who tough as I wouldn't trust the board of AVFC to sign the best suited person for the job. Based on the other managerial appointments "which have been a joke". We were promised an attacking style of play and the removal of the loosing mentality ? We are now apparently aiming to stay in the premier league!!
I feel the pain will continue, until the club is sold and the whole direction of the club can be changed.
I think we may go down this season I will be very surprised if we stay up ( but God I hope I'm wrong )
So you want them to sack him in November if things don't improve, but you don't trust them to get the right person in? What's the point in sacking him then?
I would give him until the end of November. If we have no signs of improvement then he has to go. You don't sign so many players without any idea of how they might play together or what is the planned style of play. Unfortunately I cannot see sign of either of these. Get a new face in to assess the squad in December ready for the transfer window. Don't ask who tough as I wouldn't trust the board of AVFC to sign the best suited person for the job. Based on the other managerial appointments "which have been a joke". We were promised an attacking style of play and the removal of the loosing mentality ? We are now apparently aiming to stay in the premier league!!
I feel the pain will continue, until the club is sold and the whole direction of the club can be changed.
I think we may go down this season I will be very surprised if we stay up ( but God I hope I'm wrong )
So you want them to sack him in November if things don't improve, but you don't trust them to get the right person in? What's the point in sacking him then?
I think that perfectly illustrates the mess our club is in.
I would give him until the end of November. If we have no signs of improvement then he has to go. You don't sign so many players without any idea of how they might play together or what is the planned style of play. Unfortunately I cannot see sign of either of these. Get a new face in to assess the squad in December ready for the transfer window. Don't ask who tough as I wouldn't trust the board of AVFC to sign the best suited person for the job. Based on the other managerial appointments "which have been a joke". We were promised an attacking style of play and the removal of the loosing mentality ? We are now apparently aiming to stay in the premier league!!
I feel the pain will continue, until the club is sold and the whole direction of the club can be changed.
I think we may go down this season I will be very surprised if we stay up ( but God I hope I'm wrong )
So you want them to sack him in November if things don't improve, but you don't trust them to get the right person in? What's the point in sacking him then?
I think that perfectly illustrates the mess our club is in.
What mess is that? Being on a losing run is not really a mess.
7 weeks ago almost everyone on here were back slapping Sherwood and Fox for the best Summer of business we had seen in years. Fast forward to now and Fox is getting ripped apart and 30% of people want Sherwood sacked immediately?! Honsetly, re-read those two sentences and try and comprehend how ridiculous it is. People really need to pull themselves together. Inexperenced manager, new young, inexperienced squad, best players have left the club on short notice. Honestly, what were people expecting? Yes, some results have gone the wrong way but it was always going to take time.
We have lost almost every game by one goal. There are strong signs of Ayew, Gestede, Richards, Veretout, Gana, Traore and Amavi getting up to speed and looking like really good additions. Exisiting players like Sanchez, Clarke and Gil seem to be coming on as well. We have good players like Okore coming back from injury and two players signed that we havent even seen yet.
I agree, we need to see an upturn in fortunes in the near future but hold your shit togther people, we will turn this round.
Bravo
I would like to add that at this moment in time who the hell would we attract that is better? Talk of Alladyce et al I find bizarre
What, the owner who sanctioned us spending c£50m on several players, some of whom look outstanding and people were drooling over before and when we signed them? The same several players who have hardly had a moment to bed in?
We have speculated on a new start with a new manager and new players. The worst thing you could do is pull the rug and start again. And be £50m worse off into the bargain.
What, the owner who sanctioned us spending c£50m on several players, some of whom look outstanding and people were drooling over before and when we signed them? The same several players who have hardly had a moment to bed in?
We have speculated on a new start with a new manager and new players. The worst thing you could do is pull the rug and start again. And be £50m worse off into the bargain.
What, the owner who sanctioned us spending c£50m on several players, some of whom look outstanding and people were drooling over before and when we signed them? The same several players who have hardly had a moment to bed in?
We have speculated on a new start with a new manager and new players. The worst thing you could do is pull the rug and start again. And be £50m worse off into the bargain.
I think you mean sanctioned a net spend of £8m (?17th lowest in the division) - hardly starting again.
What, the owner who sanctioned us spending c£50m on several players, some of whom look outstanding and people were drooling over before and when we signed them? The same several players who have hardly had a moment to bed in?
We have speculated on a new start with a new manager and new players. The worst thing you could do is pull the rug and start again. And be £50m worse off into the bargain.
Yep, £50m spent in the summer, £40m received. Like I say, the silence from Lerner means we can only speculate about his intentions. How would you define the situation we're in?
What, the owner who sanctioned us spending c£50m on several players, some of whom look outstanding and people were drooling over before and when we signed them? The same several players who have hardly had a moment to bed in?
We have speculated on a new start with a new manager and new players. The worst thing you could do is pull the rug and start again. And be £50m worse off into the bargain.
Yep, £50m spent in the summer, £40m received. Like I say, the silence from Lerner means we can only speculate about his intentions. How would you define the situation we're in?
One or two suggestions on here that we wait until November. Giving TS time is laudable and reasonable of course, but has anyone looked closely at the league table? We have FOUR points after seven games, against mostly moderate opposition. This time last year, with a poorer squad, we had ten and we still found ourselves in serious trouble and drifting by the time autumn turned to winter. I spy some tricky fixtures approaching and I'm concerned that if we leave things to November it may well be too late. On our present downward trajectory we keep finding different ways to lose: individual errors late on (Guzan/Amavi) at Crystal Palace; spectacularly snatching defeat from the jaws of victory at Leicester; smothered and picked off by Albion; set up to contain at Liverpool but managing to concede the fastest goal in the Premier League this season followed by piss poor lack of concentration to concede a third goal immediately after halving the deficit in the 2nd half. Of our forthcoming opponents, Stoke and Swansea have developed an irritating habit of picking up points at Villa Park and visits to Chelsea and Tottenham obviously look awkward. The manner in which we lose games currently makes it difficult to see us picking up much from these fixtures. Perhaps we will draw the home fixtures and lose the away fixtures. That would leave us on 6 points by Halloween. I am worried that at that point, when people start to realise the extent of the shit we are in, it will already be too late to make a change that will make a difference. My point is that we are already in the shit and we had better wake up and realise that the time to consider changing things is already upon us.I don't have time to back this up with facts and figures but wernt Leicester all but relegated at this time last year? I seem to remember them being absolute whipping boys and some of the fans calling for a change of manager. He managed to find a team, formation and style that suited them and they didn't look back. (Admittedly he had gone now but not for footballing reasons!) now they are sat at the top end of the league.
What do you mean didn't invest AGAIN? You're making it sound like he's not spent any money ever.
He did invest, he re-invested the money we had come in. He could have given Sherwood half of it, but he didn't. I'm sure there'll be some spent in January if we need to.
What do you mean didn't invest AGAIN? You're making it sound like he's not spent any money ever.
He did invest, he re-invested the money we had come in. He could have given Sherwood half of it, but he didn't. I'm sure there'll be some spent in January if we need to.
Seriously?
He loses a 1 in 2 striker and gets relatively peanuts for a quality midfielder and you think Sherwood should have been able to replace them and rebuild a squad that has narrowly avoided relegation for 3 years on £20m?
What do you mean didn't invest AGAIN? You're making it sound like he's not spent any money ever.
He did invest, he re-invested the money we had come in. He could have given Sherwood half of it, but he didn't. I'm sure there'll be some spent in January if we need to.
Seriously?
He loses a 1 in 2 striker and gets relatively peanuts for a quality midfielder and you think Sherwood should have been able to replace them and rebuild a squad that has narrowly avoided relegation for 3 years on £20m?
No, that's not what I meant. I said that Lerner could have kept half of it back but he didn't. Giving him £20m would have been ridiculous.
3 goals in 7 games, of which he's played maybe 4 total, isn't too bad a start.
We should have bought a right back and a decent centre forward, that much is pretty clear. The forward should have been the number 1 priority this summer, not replacing Benteke with pretty much an 1 season unknown and championship striker.
We should have bought a right back and a decent centre forward, that much is pretty clear. The forward should have been the number 1 priority this summer, not replacing Benteke with pretty much an 1 season unknown and championship striker.
Are you saying that we should have blown most of the money we had on a replacement for Benteke? Personally, I think he did the right thing overhauling the squad. He did want Adebayor so another striker was in his thoughts.
We should have bought a right back and a decent centre forward, that much is pretty clear. The forward should have been the number 1 priority this summer, not replacing Benteke with pretty much an 1 season unknown and championship striker.
Are you saying that we should have blown most of the money we had on a replacement for Benteke? Personally, I think he did the right thing overhauling the squad. He did want Adebayor so another striker was in his thoughts.
Not most of the money no but I wouldn't have spent £23m on Gestede, Traore and Ayew. I would have had 2 players. I can't see how we are going to fit Gestede, Ayew, Gabby, Sinclair, Traore, Grealish and Gil in the squad without compromising the midfield, too many attacking players and not enough quality.
That's just my opinion, we have a lot of options but I'm not sure how many of them are quality options.
We should have bought a right back and a decent centre forward, that much is pretty clear. The forward should have been the number 1 priority this summer, not replacing Benteke with pretty much an 1 season unknown and championship striker.
Are you saying that we should have blown most of the money we had on a replacement for Benteke? Personally, I think he did the right thing overhauling the squad. He did want Adebayor so another striker was in his thoughts.
Not most of the money no but I wouldn't have spent £23m on Gestede, Traore and Ayew. I would have had 2 players. I can't see how we are going to fit Gestede, Ayew, Gabby, Sinclair, Traore, Grealish and Gil in the squad without compromising the midfield, too many attacking players and not enough quality.
That's just my opinion, we have a lot of options but I'm not sure how many of them are quality options.
So you wouldn't have brought three players but two? It's hardly a massive difference really. I see what you're saying about the midfield though, we do need to find a way of finding the right forward line without weakning the midfield.
It could be a defining game for Tactics this weekend. A convincing win and he will get some leeway but a serious mauling doesn't bare thinking about.
We should have bought a right back and a decent centre forward, that much is pretty clear. The forward should have been the number 1 priority this summer, not replacing Benteke with pretty much an 1 season unknown and championship striker.
Are you saying that we should have blown most of the money we had on a replacement for Benteke? Personally, I think he did the right thing overhauling the squad. He did want Adebayor so another striker was in his thoughts.
Not most of the money no but I wouldn't have spent £23m on Gestede, Traore and Ayew. I would have had 2 players. I can't see how we are going to fit Gestede, Ayew, Gabby, Sinclair, Traore, Grealish and Gil in the squad without compromising the midfield, too many attacking players and not enough quality.
That's just my opinion, we have a lot of options but I'm not sure how many of them are quality options.
So you wouldn't have brought three players but two? It's hardly a massive difference really. I see what you're saying about the midfield though, we do need to find a way of finding the right forward line without weakning the midfield.
If you have nearly £50m to spend, then starting the season with a strike force of a Championship striker and a young lad who's only really scored goals in 1 season is possibly not the best use of the money. Goals win you games. Of course they both could hit the ground running and we have a great season, but it's not looking likely. We have to wait and see, more jam tomorrow.
Especially when we seem to be packing the midfield full of ball playing midfields who look to be able to pick a pass I don't get why our main forward is so immobile.
We have 8 league goals in 7 games, with the easiest start we've had in many moons. I don't care how many Sinclair scores against Notts County, if Sherwood gets the sack it will be because of league form. We still don't score enough and having immobile strikers don't help us stretch the game enough. Fully agree about the defence being shit, is it the players are no good? Is it the midfield not offering them enough protection still? I have no idea but add to it the amount of thicko errors we make it's not good reading.
We have 8 league goals in 7 games, with the easiest start we've had in many moons. I don't care how many Sinclair scores against Notts County, if Sherwood gets the sack it will be because of league form. We still don't score enough and having immobile strikers don't help us stretch the game enough. Fully agree about the defence being shit, is it the players are no good? Is it the midfield not offering them enough protection still? I have no idea but add to it the amount of thicko errors we make it's not good reading.
Stoke is massive. We can't go on waiting to get better. We have to show up. We simply have to find a way to win.
We have 8 league goals in 7 games, with the easiest start we've had in many moons. I don't care how many Sinclair scores against Notts County, if Sherwood gets the sack it will be because of league form. We still don't score enough and having immobile strikers don't help us stretch the game enough. Fully agree about the defence being shit, is it the players are no good? Is it the midfield not offering them enough protection still? I have no idea but add to it the amount of thicko errors we make it's not good reading.
You could be right about the midfield not offering the defence enough protection. Too often the other team is able to work the ball right up to our penalty area.
we have not had a defensive minded midfield player since Petrov and NRC, it has been a problem for a while now and it is pretty obvious that none of the player Sherwood has bought in fullfill this function.I wouldn't be against 5 at the back short term to try and shore things up with Lescott playing as a sweeper.
Our defense is exposed every game and is why we concede so easily.
Sanchez?Not sure what his strengths are, he does not do it for me even if that is a role he is supposed to be playing. Gets caught in posession, gets caught out of posission, gives the ball away too easily and gets out muscled in the tackle.
Stoke is massive. We can't go on waiting to get better. We have to show up. We simply have to find a way to win.
we have not had a defensive minded midfield player since Petrov and NRC, it has been a problem for a while now and it is pretty obvious that none of the player Sherwood has bought in fullfill this function.
Our defense is exposed every game and is why we concede so easily.
Bloody hell! A sweeper! I thought that role was only saved for fat Sunday footballer fat guy who can lump the ball 50 yards forward pretty accurately.we have not had a defensive minded midfield player since Petrov and NRC, it has been a problem for a while now and it is pretty obvious that none of the player Sherwood has bought in fullfill this function.I wouldn't be against 5 at the back short term to try and shore things up with Lescott playing as a sweeper.
Our defense is exposed every game and is why we concede so easily.
-----------Guzan -----------
-- Lescott. --
Hutton Richards Clark Amavi
Stoke is massive.
Centre half - Richards, Clark, Lescott - Lescott has been a disaster but Richards positionally is all over the place when it comes to the offside line, all three have been at fault for goals conceded in the air and on the ground. Need to give the Richards/Clark partnership more time but one of them needs to take ownership of organising the back fourWould it be fair to say that Richards looks worse when Lescott is in the team? I've noticed that Lescott is often the last man, literally yards behind the line at times as if he's playing a completely different game, and often gets caught out of position if he strolls forward with the ball. Its been previously mentioned that he played well for Baggies but they played so far back in their own half most of the time that it wasn't possible to tell that he was so far off the pace of the game. I sincerely hope the Liverpool lineup and tactics werent anything to do with accommodating Lescott in the back four.
Those with short memories have forgotten that when Sherwood took over a little over six months ago we were on a runaway train towards relegation. Not only did he arrest that slide, he also got us to the FA Cup Final. He's since shipped out a lot of inadequacy and brought in a lot of new players in a very short timespan. These players need time to settle and gel.I think that credit is running out fast, we are averaging under half a point a game.
I think the guy has some credit in the bank.
Centre half - Richards, Clark, Lescott - Lescott has been a disaster but Richards positionally is all over the place when it comes to the offside line, all three have been at fault for goals conceded in the air and on the ground. Need to give the Richards/Clark partnership more time but one of them needs to take ownership of organising the back fourWould it be fair to say that Richards looks worse when Lescott is in the team? I've noticed that Lescott is often the last man, literally yards behind the line at times as if he's playing a completely different game, and often gets caught out of position if he strolls forward with the ball. Its been previously mentioned that he played well for Baggies but they played so far back in their own half most of the time that it wasn't possible to tell that he was so far off the pace of the game. I sincerely hope the Liverpool lineup and tactics werent anything to do with accommodating Lescott in the back four.
Bloody hell! A sweeper! I thought that role was only saved for fat Sunday footballer fat guy who can lump the ball 50 yards forwardwe have not had a defensive minded midfield player since Petrov and NRC, it has been a problem for a while now and it is pretty obvious that none of the player Sherwood has bought in fullfill this function.I wouldn't be against 5 at the back short term to try and shore things up with Lescott playing as a sweeper.
Our defense is exposed every game and is why we concede so easily.
-----------Guzan -----------
-- Lescott. --
Hutton Richards Clark Amavipretty accurately.
Those with short memories have forgotten that when Sherwood took over a little over six months ago we were on a runaway train towards relegation. Not only did he arrest that slide, he also got us to the FA Cup Final. He's since shipped out a lot of inadequacy and brought in a lot of new players in a very short timespan. These players need time to settle and gel.I think that credit is running out fast, we are averaging under half a point a game.
I think the guy has some credit in the bank.
So after saying last season we won't be in this position again, he then in Sept, writes off this season. Quality.
So after saying last season we won't be in this position again, he then in Sept, writes off this season. Quality.
He hasn't written the season off. He did say at the start of the season we need to get through this season unscathed and we could progress from there and he was right. We may well finish mid-table, no-one's knows yet.
Well it's time for him to cut the bullshit and start delivering on the pitch this season. No excuses, we don't have loads of injuries, aren't playing a top side, aren't tired. If we can't cobble together a 90 minute performance against Stoke City with almost a full squad then what are we waiting for?
Those with short memories have forgotten that when Sherwood took over a little over six months ago we were on a runaway train towards relegation. Not only did he arrest that slide, he also got us to the FA Cup Final. He's since shipped out a lot of inadequacy and brought in a lot of new players in a very short timespan. These players need time to settle and gel.
I think the guy has some credit in the bank.
It's crucial that he beats Stoke, both because of our respective positions in the table and also to give us a lift. Lose, and then the expected loss against Chelsea and I think we'll be gonners.
I think one concern Sherwood will have is a lack of allies if things continue to go tits up.
Lambert was on 6 foot of concrete because he was a Lerner appointment, and there was obviously some kind of 'bond' between them and (the contract renewal proved) there was a tremendous amount of loyalty between them.
Fox was obviously able to change and influence that when we were in the pits of despair in February, and force his Lamberts removal.
Sherwood is a Fox appointment, albeit sanctioned by Lerner.
I would guess the same levels of loyalty and friendship do not exist between Lerner and Sherwood and so if/when Fox decides to be ruthless, I think it will be a lot sooner than if it was Lerners decision.
I think one concern Sherwood will have is a lack of allies if things continue to go tits up.
Lambert was on 6 foot of concrete because he was a Lerner appointment, and there was obviously some kind of 'bond' between them and (the contract renewal proved) there was a tremendous amount of loyalty between them.
Fox was obviously able to change and influence that when we were in the pits of despair in February, and force his Lamberts removal.
Sherwood is a Fox appointment, albeit sanctioned by Lerner.
I would guess the same levels of loyalty and friendship do not exist between Lerner and Sherwood and so if/when Fox decides to be ruthless, I think it will be a lot sooner than if it was Lerners decision.
Good, I don't want jobs for mates and back slapping and all that bollocks. I want the best man available for the job and if he doesn't cut the mustard I want him sacked.
I think one concern Sherwood will have is a lack of allies if things continue to go tits up.
Lambert was on 6 foot of concrete because he was a Lerner appointment, and there was obviously some kind of 'bond' between them and (the contract renewal proved) there was a tremendous amount of loyalty between them.
Fox was obviously able to change and influence that when we were in the pits of despair in February, and force his Lamberts removal.
Sherwood is a Fox appointment, albeit sanctioned by Lerner.
I would guess the same levels of loyalty and friendship do not exist between Lerner and Sherwood and so if/when Fox decides to be ruthless, I think it will be a lot sooner than if it was Lerners decision.
Good, I don't want jobs for mates and back slapping and all that bollocks. I want the best man available for the job and if he doesn't cut the mustard I want him sacked.
Replaced by who?
The squad last year was poor and playing a brand of football that made them look even worse. Sherwood came in and altered the way we approached the game. This gave the players a lift and they looked as though they were enjoying the game.
Some of the players then slipped back into their old ways and Clark picked up an injury that completely disorganised the defence over the final few matches.
Many in the squad had to be replaced and we were unfortunate that two of our best players wanted to leave. If Benteke and Delph had stayed, I wonder how much Sherwood would have had to spend.
Football is very much a squad game these days as cover for injuries/suspensions is essential (as we full know). There will always be players left out, even out of the match day squad but we need that cover. We still have glaring weaknesses in the squad. When you couple this with inexperience and a few injuries, it is a recipe for a team to struggle.
I have been hugely disappointed with results but in most games I have seen something positive. This was not the case last year, when relegation looked odds-on after the Hull match. Last season's experience shows that it's a fine line between relative success and failure. If we can put out a balanced and settled side, pick up a bit of confidence, get a better rub of the green, things could turn around.
I think one concern Sherwood will have is a lack of allies if things continue to go tits up.
Lambert was on 6 foot of concrete because he was a Lerner appointment, and there was obviously some kind of 'bond' between them and (the contract renewal proved) there was a tremendous amount of loyalty between them.
Fox was obviously able to change and influence that when we were in the pits of despair in February, and force his Lamberts removal.
Sherwood is a Fox appointment, albeit sanctioned by Lerner.
I would guess the same levels of loyalty and friendship do not exist between Lerner and Sherwood and so if/when Fox decides to be ruthless, I think it will be a lot sooner than if it was Lerners decision.
Good, I don't want jobs for mates and back slapping and all that bollocks. I want the best man available for the job and if he doesn't cut the mustard I want him sacked.
Replaced by who?
Not my job mate, I don't have any contacts or much knowledge of football managers around the world. I'm also not involved in football so have no links to agents who drip feed information. I'd hope we have employed someone who does have this kind of knowledge though, like a CEO.
Well why should I know which managers are possibly available to come to Aston Villa in the next 6 months? Don't be ridiculous.
I think one concern Sherwood will have is a lack of allies if things continue to go tits up.
Lambert was on 6 foot of concrete because he was a Lerner appointment, and there was obviously some kind of 'bond' between them and (the contract renewal proved) there was a tremendous amount of loyalty between them.
Fox was obviously able to change and influence that when we were in the pits of despair in February, and force his Lamberts removal.
Sherwood is a Fox appointment, albeit sanctioned by Lerner.
I would guess the same levels of loyalty and friendship do not exist between Lerner and Sherwood and so if/when Fox decides to be ruthless, I think it will be a lot sooner than if it was Lerners decision.
Good, I don't want jobs for mates and back slapping and all that bollocks. I want the best man available for the job and if he doesn't cut the mustard I want him sacked.
Replaced by who?
Not my job mate, I don't have any contacts or much knowledge of football managers around the world. I'm also not involved in football so have no links to agents who drip feed information. I'd hope we have employed someone who does have this kind of knowledge though, like a CEO.
Ahhh, that old chestnut, not my job.
I think one concern Sherwood will have is a lack of allies if things continue to go tits up.
Lambert was on 6 foot of concrete because he was a Lerner appointment, and there was obviously some kind of 'bond' between them and (the contract renewal proved) there was a tremendous amount of loyalty between them.
Fox was obviously able to change and influence that when we were in the pits of despair in February, and force his Lamberts removal.
Sherwood is a Fox appointment, albeit sanctioned by Lerner.
I would guess the same levels of loyalty and friendship do not exist between Lerner and Sherwood and so if/when Fox decides to be ruthless, I think it will be a lot sooner than if it was Lerners decision.
Good, I don't want jobs for mates and back slapping and all that bollocks. I want the best man available for the job and if he doesn't cut the mustard I want him sacked.
Replaced by who?
Not my job mate, I don't have any contacts or much knowledge of football managers around the world. I'm also not involved in football so have no links to agents who drip feed information. I'd hope we have employed someone who does have this kind of knowledge though, like a CEO.
Ahhh, that old chestnut, not my job.
And asking people to name a replacement isn't an old chestnut in itself?
If we lose v Stoke and then Chelsea, then I think Risso is right. We'll be goners. We would be marooned in the bottom three with 4 pts from 9 games. I know other sides have recovered from desperate positions in recent seasons (Leicester last season, Crystal Palace the one before) but they are the exception rather than the rule. Can you honestly see us recover from such a low ebb with TS in charge? Not a chance. The only outside chance would be to jettison TS sharpish and then gamble on some one else to come in and somehow perform miracles with a demoralised squad. I wouldn't be putting money on it. That's why beating Stoke is so important. Others on here are blithely talking about giving TS until Christmas etc but I believe we are already closer to the last chance saloon than might be apparent at first glance.
I think one concern Sherwood will have is a lack of allies if things continue to go tits up.
Lambert was on 6 foot of concrete because he was a Lerner appointment, and there was obviously some kind of 'bond' between them and (the contract renewal proved) there was a tremendous amount of loyalty between them.
Fox was obviously able to change and influence that when we were in the pits of despair in February, and force his Lamberts removal.
Sherwood is a Fox appointment, albeit sanctioned by Lerner.
I would guess the same levels of loyalty and friendship do not exist between Lerner and Sherwood and so if/when Fox decides to be ruthless, I think it will be a lot sooner than if it was Lerners decision.
Good, I don't want jobs for mates and back slapping and all that bollocks. I want the best man available for the job and if he doesn't cut the mustard I want him sacked.
Replaced by who?
Not my job mate, I don't have any contacts or much knowledge of football managers around the world. I'm also not involved in football so have no links to agents who drip feed information. I'd hope we have employed someone who does have this kind of knowledge though, like a CEO.
Ahhh, that old chestnut, not my job.
And asking people to name a replacement isn't an old chestnut in itself?
I think one concern Sherwood will have is a lack of allies if things continue to go tits up.
Lambert was on 6 foot of concrete because he was a Lerner appointment, and there was obviously some kind of 'bond' between them and (the contract renewal proved) there was a tremendous amount of loyalty between them.
Fox was obviously able to change and influence that when we were in the pits of despair in February, and force his Lamberts removal.
Sherwood is a Fox appointment, albeit sanctioned by Lerner.
I would guess the same levels of loyalty and friendship do not exist between Lerner and Sherwood and so if/when Fox decides to be ruthless, I think it will be a lot sooner than if it was Lerners decision.
Good, I don't want jobs for mates and back slapping and all that bollocks. I want the best man available for the job and if he doesn't cut the mustard I want him sacked.
Replaced by who?
Not my job mate, I don't have any contacts or much knowledge of football managers around the world. I'm also not involved in football so have no links to agents who drip feed information. I'd hope we have employed someone who does have this kind of knowledge though, like a CEO.
Ahhh, that old chestnut, not my job.
I get the impression the Sherwood appointment was made as it was a quick and easy appointment to make. He was available and wouldn't take a lot on convincing to come. Also, we're probably paying him less than his predecessors due to his lack of experience. If he goes it could well be a similar criteria used to replace him.
I'd also like to understand what value Bloater Wilkins is bringing to the overall coaching / management mix.
I'd also like to understand what value Bloater Wilkins is bringing to the overall coaching / management mix.Gin, sherry and Creme de Menthe ;)
Comments are a bit harsh on Wilkins. Very early days for him trying to coach a group of foreign players speaking different languages. It will take time, but lost points against Sunderland, Palace, West Brom and Leicester will come back to haunt us I feel.Already haunting me...
The squad last year was poor and playing a brand of football that made them look even worse. Sherwood came in and altered the way we approached the game. This gave the players a lift and they looked as though they were enjoying the game.
Some of the players then slipped back into their old ways and Clark picked up an injury that completely disorganised the defence over the final few matches.
Many in the squad had to be replaced and we were unfortunate that two of our best players wanted to leave. If Benteke and Delph had stayed, I wonder how much Sherwood would have had to spend.
Football is very much a squad game these days as cover for injuries/suspensions is essential (as we full know). There will always be players left out, even out of the match day squad but we need that cover. We still have glaring weaknesses in the squad. When you couple this with inexperience and a few injuries, it is a recipe for a team to struggle.
I have been hugely disappointed with results but in most games I have seen something positive. This was not the case last year, when relegation looked odds-on after the Hull match. Last season's experience shows that it's a fine line between relative success and failure. If we can put out a balanced and settled side, pick up a bit of confidence, get a better rub of the green, things could turn around.
I really hope he does turn it around and it all come together soon, I am sick of this every season, but I was never this worried at this stage of the season in PL's years as I am now.
Money talks if i were Lerner i would go out and get a top manager by making them an offrer they can't refuse.A top manager should get the same money as the top players.
Money talks if i were Lerner i would go out and get a top manager by making them an offrer they can't refuse.A top manager should get the same money as the top players.
Money talks if i were Lerner i would go out and get a top manager by making them an offrer they can't refuse.A top manager should get the same money as the top players.SAF had a clause in his deal saying he would be paid more than any player. Then, he'd earned that right.
Those with short memories have forgotten that when Sherwood took over a little over six months ago we were on a runaway train towards relegation. Not only did he arrest that slide, he also got us to the FA Cup Final. He's since shipped out a lot of inadequacy and brought in a lot of new players in a very short timespan. These players need time to settle and gel.
I think the guy has some credit in the bank.
I always wait until ten games to judge what's what. If we've got less than ten points then it's time to act
I'd also like to understand what value Bloater Wilkins is bringing to the overall coaching / management mix.
I was always surprised at the way KMac was pushed to the side during games last season with Mark Robson having the ear of Sherwood. I'd have thought a manager would want his Assistant Manager close by but KMac was shoved off further down the bench. I got the idea despite all his experience he was not that involved.
Wilkins I have no idea only that he seems very happy to be back in the game.
Houlier MON Mcleish Lambert + all the back room staff. between 25 and 35million
One thing I have been wondering and maybe Risso or any of the other bean counters on here can tell me is this; how much have our last four managers cost us when we combine their salaries plus the compensation paid out?
Houlier MON Mcleish Lambert + all the back room staff. between 25 and 35million
One thing I have been wondering and maybe Risso or any of the other bean counters on here can tell me is this; how much have our last four managers cost us when we combine their salaries plus the compensation paid out?
We put McLeish in the top 20 highest pain managers in the world list.Houlier MON Mcleish Lambert + all the back room staff. between 25 and 35million
One thing I have been wondering and maybe Risso or any of the other bean counters on here can tell me is this; how much have our last four managers cost us when we combine their salaries plus the compensation paid out?
That seems too much. MON cost us a few M but you dont know the clauses in the rest.
I know you were only answering a question but its immaterial now. Just need to look forward
There was a figure in the accounts of 8 which was the MON payment, Lambrt had 3 half years to run, I dont think i am that far off.Houlier MON Mcleish Lambert + all the back room staff. between 25 and 35million
One thing I have been wondering and maybe Risso or any of the other bean counters on here can tell me is this; how much have our last four managers cost us when we combine their salaries plus the compensation paid out?
That seems too much. MON cost us a few M but you dont know the clauses in the rest.
I know you were only answering a question but its immaterial now. Just need to look forward
We put McLeish in the top 20 highest pain managers in the world list.Houlier MON Mcleish Lambert + all the back room staff. between 25 and 35million
One thing I have been wondering and maybe Risso or any of the other bean counters on here can tell me is this; how much have our last four managers cost us when we combine their salaries plus the compensation paid out?
That seems too much. MON cost us a few M but you dont know the clauses in the rest.
I know you were only answering a question but its immaterial now. Just need to look forward
Simple fact is The Beast is not here to bail us out of the shit this time.
I'm not sure if he'll be given until Christmas. Obviously we've got a hard run of fixtures and any decision will be based on results, but if we only pick up a handful of points then a decision may need to be made at the end of November. If we write off the Chelski and Cit£h games, then TS needs to make sure we get something out of the Stoke, Swansea, Tottenham and Everton games...minimum to stay in the job should be 6pts.
Sherwood is effectively Tom Fox's first appointment.Surely that depends on how good Fox is at his job - admitting you got it wrong is just as important as taking the credit for when you get it right. This is the main failing I am seeing from TS now, not admitting his own mistakes, I am hoping that this is not the case when he reflects on his decisions in private.
Lerner has opted out of the decision making process, so Sherwood is Fox's man.
I don't think he'll be rushing to his boss saying 'I got it wrong' anytime soon.
Sherwood is effectively Tom Fox's first appointment.I think Sherwood will get less time from the fans than previous managers - he wasn't a popular appointment and whilst he kept us up against the odds that goodwill is evaporating. Unrest amongst the fans will focus everyone's thinking (including Fox)
Lerner has opted out of the decision making process, so Sherwood is Fox's man.
I don't think he'll be rushing to his boss saying 'I got it wrong' anytime soon.
I'd also like to understand what value Bloater Wilkins is bringing to the overall coaching / management mix.
I was always surprised at the way KMac was pushed to the side during games last season with Mark Robson having the ear of Sherwood. I'd have thought a manager would want his Assistant Manager close by but KMac was shoved off further down the bench. I got the idea despite all his experience he was not that involved.
Wilkins I have no idea only that he seems very happy to be back in the game.
Loved Ray Wilkins as an up and coming young English Chelsea player in the 70's. However, he has done nothing of note as a coach so why appoint him. You want someone in who is going to add something to the team environment
Sherwood is effectively Tom Fox's first appointment.
Lerner has opted out of the decision making process, so Sherwood is Fox's man.
I don't think he'll be rushing to his boss saying 'I got it wrong' anytime soon.
Rob where do you think we will pick the 11 points up from in the next 7 games? I can't see it myself.
Rob where do you think we will pick the 11 points up from in the next 7 games? I can't see it myself.
I don't think we will. I said meant that as best case, Chief.
Stoke 3
Chelsea 0
Swansea 3
Tottenham 1
City 1
Everton 0
Watford 3
I think that is a harder set of games than those we have had so far. Maybe get 8 in reality. Domesday is we only pick up 5 or 6.
Rob where do you think we will pick the 11 points up from in the next 7 games? I can't see it myself.
I don't think we will. I said meant that as best case, Chief.
Stoke 3
Chelsea 0
Swansea 3
Tottenham 1
City 1
Everton 0
Watford 3
I think that is a harder set of games than those we have had so far. Maybe get 8 in reality. Domesday is we only pick up 5 or 6.
If we cut out the silly mistakes at the back, there's no reason why we couldn't get a decent haul of points out of that lot.
Win the Stoke game and the chances of picking up another 8 points from the balance of the other six games increases dramatically. Confidence, winning and their ability to create momentum is a funny thing.So.... What do you really think? :p
I think there is a comparison to be made with Leicester of last season in that they struggled with results, but there were no beatings dished out. We’ve been in every game so far this season and short of West Brom, we’ve not been universally terrible.
Sherwood has made errors in judgment at crucial times; Leicester away being the beacon of frustration for not solidifying the midfield. We’ve also been let down by terrible individual errors; Crystal Palace an example, the defending against Liverpool [why did both Gana and Sanchez vacate the space for Liverpool’s first?], Clark’s positioning against Sunderland etc, so there has to be a collective responsibility too.
For all my anger, most of it justified after Liverpool, systems and formations count for nothing if you have two players willing to empty the midfield within the first minute. Was it a symptom of being under instructed? I’m not so sure that a coach is required to give players the most basic of instructions of when to close the ball down or not, at this level, you should know for certain and I suspect both Gana and Sanchez do.
So perhaps the goals was down to a communication error between a French speaking player with a smattering of English and a Spanish speaking one with an equal lose grasp on Anglais?
Was Gana too keyed up and excitable? Was there an internal monologue of “I’ve been out for two bloody weeks, this ball is mine”?
It cost us a point whatever the root cause, but it’s surely something easily remedied, as you could argue for much of our defensive organisation.
There has to be a realisation that we cannot fix Guzan or the right back problem. They’re poor and there is little to be done but sit and wait. Having a midfield capable of picking up runners to stem and pressure on the defence would help. Taking Westwood out of the side, because he too is a very poor player, would help defensively. His inability to track a man lets the opposition create space, which must be closed down, which breaks our defensive line, which in turn leads to space in areas where it really hurts you. Leicester again is a beacon of this.
We’ve got a perfect storm at present which is undermining the good work we do put it. I’ve seen us play better football this season than the mind numbing futility served up by Lambert, but unless we’re willing to start coupling together the good work we do over a substantive part of the game, we will be exposed. The manager identifying the appropriate personnel is a key to that and the quicker Veretout puts down his Camel’s and picks up the fitness, the better we shall be.
Stoke, Swansea and Watford at home are opposition who we should be aiming to beat. We have a diabolical record at home, but you’ve got to address that and the only way it will come is via results and putting them together. There were glimpses of that against Everton and West Ham last season where we deservedly won those games; putting results together against all right opposition.
Start winning games at home and there will be plenty of wins picked up where the opposition can say they deserved something from the game, but achieved nothing. We haven’t won games like that in a long time.
It seems like a lofty aspiration, but that is really quite a pathetic assessment and it’s because we too as supporters have been succoured into this woebegone mindset that scrapping 5 wins at home a season is our lot in life.
The nonsensical talk that if we were to lose the next two games that we’re down is evidence enough of this attitude and the only way it will be rectified is by winning, especially at home.
Win the Stoke game and the chances of picking up another 8 points from the balance of the other six games increases dramatically. Confidence, winning and their ability to create momentum is a funny thing.So.... What do you really think? :p
I think there is a comparison to be made with Leicester of last season in that they struggled with results, but there were no beatings dished out. We’ve been in every game so far this season and short of West Brom, we’ve not been universally terrible.
Sherwood has made errors in judgment at crucial times; Leicester away being the beacon of frustration for not solidifying the midfield. We’ve also been let down by terrible individual errors; Crystal Palace an example, the defending against Liverpool [why did both Gana and Sanchez vacate the space for Liverpool’s first?], Clark’s positioning against Sunderland etc, so there has to be a collective responsibility too.
For all my anger, most of it justified after Liverpool, systems and formations count for nothing if you have two players willing to empty the midfield within the first minute. Was it a symptom of being under instructed? I’m not so sure that a coach is required to give players the most basic of instructions of when to close the ball down or not, at this level, you should know for certain and I suspect both Gana and Sanchez do.
So perhaps the goals was down to a communication error between a French speaking player with a smattering of English and a Spanish speaking one with an equal lose grasp on Anglais?
Was Gana too keyed up and excitable? Was there an internal monologue of “I’ve been out for two bloody weeks, this ball is mine”?
It cost us a point whatever the root cause, but it’s surely something easily remedied, as you could argue for much of our defensive organisation.
There has to be a realisation that we cannot fix Guzan or the right back problem. They’re poor and there is little to be done but sit and wait. Having a midfield capable of picking up runners to stem and pressure on the defence would help. Taking Westwood out of the side, because he too is a very poor player, would help defensively. His inability to track a man lets the opposition create space, which must be closed down, which breaks our defensive line, which in turn leads to space in areas where it really hurts you. Leicester again is a beacon of this.
We’ve got a perfect storm at present which is undermining the good work we do put it. I’ve seen us play better football this season than the mind numbing futility served up by Lambert, but unless we’re willing to start coupling together the good work we do over a substantive part of the game, we will be exposed. The manager identifying the appropriate personnel is a key to that and the quicker Veretout puts down his Camel’s and picks up the fitness, the better we shall be.
Stoke, Swansea and Watford at home are opposition who we should be aiming to beat. We have a diabolical record at home, but you’ve got to address that and the only way it will come is via results and putting them together. There were glimpses of that against Everton and West Ham last season where we deservedly won those games; putting results together against all right opposition.
Start winning games at home and there will be plenty of wins picked up where the opposition can say they deserved something from the game, but achieved nothing. We haven’t won games like that in a long time.
It seems like a lofty aspiration, but that is really quite a pathetic assessment and it’s because we too as supporters have been succoured into this woebegone mindset that scrapping 5 wins at home a season is our lot in life.
The nonsensical talk that if we were to lose the next two games that we’re down is evidence enough of this attitude and the only way it will be rectified is by winning, especially at home.
Sherwood is effectively Tom Fox's first appointment.I think Sherwood will get less time from the fans than previous managers - he wasn't a popular appointment and whilst he kept us up against the odds that goodwill is evaporating. Unrest amongst the fans will focus everyone's thinking (including Fox)
Lerner has opted out of the decision making process, so Sherwood is Fox's man.
I don't think he'll be rushing to his boss saying 'I got it wrong' anytime soon.
Sack him and sack the next manager in a few months.
Two newmanagerbounces might keep us up.
Now we have a DoF sacking managers should be fairly painless
Yes we are all clear on the ethos of those two clubs. I defy anyone to explain what it is at Villa.
Sack tim now and re-appoint Ads.
Sack him and sack the next manager in a few months.
Two newmanagerbounces might keep us up.
They say never go back to your old clubs.Agreed, I went back to Snobs once and it just wasn't the same
http://www.racingpost.com/blog/sport/billy-bunter/contradictory-comments-highlight-villa-woes/1964479/
Someone picked up on the contradictory comments
The potters lost to Stoke. Genius.
Most famous contradiction ever? Big Ron 'I'd be barmy to leave this club.'
Changed his mind again today in the press conference. He says it's too early to say we'll be in a relegation battle. He said last week he knew we'd struggle. With this and his patronising comments after the Blues game, it's all getting weirder.
My work tablet is only enabling to see this page. I want Sherwood if he learns while he is going on, he has messed up and should admit it, but I do not agree with changing the managerThat's a highly selective and distinctively classy work tablet you have there, Villan from Luton!
Changed his mind again today in the press conference. He says it's too early to say we'll be in a relegation battle. He said last week he knew we'd struggle. With this and his patronising comments after the Blues game, it's all getting weirder.
Ultimately it all comes down to him not being very bright.
I know that sounds patronising, but he just sounds like he's making this shit up on the hoof.
To carry on that analogy Brian, the weather is turning chilly and we've been forced to shut the windows which has caused some very strange smells to come to the fore again.
No one is quite sure what's causing the stench, including the guy put in charge of sorting the building out.
Sometimes it smells like he's been eating treble portions of tarka dal with a couple of pints of live yoghurt to wash it down with, and underneath it all there's a worrying odour that smells like the dozy git has turned the wood fired boiler on, but lit the wood fire on the floor instead of in the wood burner.
So to sum up.
All of the ingredients for a comfortable winter are in place.
It looks like a lot of energy and resources are going to waste.
Occasionally the new builder leaves you breathless because of the stench of shit.
Just listening to the bitters game. Jesus. Makes me realise I'd rather have a manager like Tim who at least wants us to play football than an anti football, park the bus merchant like pulis even if it probably means guaranteed survival for them.You have seen our lineup today, right?
Just listening to the bitters game. Jesus. Makes me realise I'd rather have a manager like Tim who at least wants us to play football than an anti football, park the bus merchant like pulis even if it probably means guaranteed survival for them.
Just listening to the bitters game. Jesus. Makes me realise I'd rather have a manager like Tim who at least wants us to play football than an anti football, park the bus merchant like pulis even if it probably means guaranteed survival for them.
Quite a few wanted a manager like Pulis who wouldn't be stupid enough to gift teams a 3-2 when they were two up.....
Every bit as bad as Lambert now.
He's out of his depth.
Ridiculous appointment to give the job to a manager with almost zero experience of actually managing.
The "not Lambert" factor helped keep us up, yes, but even that wore off quickly (Southampton, Burnley) and we still finished 17th.
Just sack him now. I honestly can't face the idea of two fucking seasons of this, I've had enough of it. Just cut to the quick and admit it was a mistake.
Fox seemingly has most of the control nowadays, I just hope that he can accept the mistake he made in appointing sherwood in the first place and act fast. The longer this goes on, the harder it will be to stop it.
Just wondering what odds I will get for a double on Sherwood and McClaren to get the bullet before the end of November.
So anyone want to have a go at defending him now?
I hadn't realised that we were now up to 9 defeats in 11. That's truly Lambertesque.
Time to change a crap manager for a Klopp one. This cannot go on.
Time to change a crap manager for a Klopp one. This cannot go on.
You're nuts if you think Klopp's rolling in any time soon, but I'd sell my would for Allardyce right now. He's proven stability even if I'll hate it in 2 years time.
If it means bringing Allardyce in I'd rather keep him a bit longer, I cannot stand watching Allardyce's brand of football. We've got a decent squad with a fair amount of young foreign players, surely there is a coach outside the British Isles who could do a better job than the usual uninspiring suspects?
I've reset the poll.
For the record, this is how it looked when reset.
(http://i.imgur.com/YlrOH6K.jpg)
you could have said that about lambert and he did nothing until marchTime to change a crap manager for a Klopp one. This cannot go on.
You're nuts if you think Klopp's rolling in any time soon, but I'd sell my would for Allardyce right now. He's proven stability even if I'll hate it in 2 years time.
Lerner is a businessman. He should be able to see that gambling our share of a billion pound TV deal for the sake of a few quid to get someone decent in is not worth the risk.
If it means bringing Allardyce in I'd rather keep him a bit longer, I cannot stand watching Allardyce's brand of football. We've got a decent squad with a fair amount of young foreign players, surely there is a coach outside the British Isles who could do a better job than the usual uninspiring suspects?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it just a bit hard to swallow this line from a lot of people tbh about 'Allardyce's brand of football' - It's not as if we're renowned for our free flowing football over the years is it? So if it's a choice of watching crap football, and every so often taking three points I'll have that please, thank you.
If it means bringing Allardyce in I'd rather keep him a bit longer, I cannot stand watching Allardyce's brand of football. We've got a decent squad with a fair amount of young foreign players, surely there is a coach outside the British Isles who could do a better job than the usual uninspiring suspects?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it just a bit hard to swallow this line from a lot of people tbh about 'Allardyce's brand of football' - It's not as if we're renowned for our free flowing football over the years is it? So if it's a choice of watching crap football, and every so often taking three points I'll have that please, thank you.
If it means bringing Allardyce in I'd rather keep him a bit longer, I cannot stand watching Allardyce's brand of football. We've got a decent squad with a fair amount of young foreign players, surely there is a coach outside the British Isles who could do a better job than the usual uninspiring suspects?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it just a bit hard to swallow this line from a lot of people tbh about 'Allardyce's brand of football' - It's not as if we're renowned for our free flowing football over the years is it? So if it's a choice of watching crap football, and every so often taking three points I'll have that please, thank you.
If it means bringing Allardyce in I'd rather keep him a bit longer, I cannot stand watching Allardyce's brand of football. We've got a decent squad with a fair amount of young foreign players, surely there is a coach outside the British Isles who could do a better job than the usual uninspiring suspects?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it just a bit hard to swallow this line from a lot of people tbh about 'Allardyce's brand of football' - It's not as if we're renowned for our free flowing football over the years is it? So if it's a choice of watching crap football, and every so often taking three points I'll have that please, thank you.
If Sherwood had to go then do be it
But for those thinking Alardyce would be a good option, it would be like watching the first half today on a repetitive reel, remember we were 0-0 at half time so that sort of performance does pick up points
If that's what you want then crack on
I have no problem in changing the manager but surely we can't give up all hope of seeing some football at the Villa, surely there is someone better out there to turn to
Because you've sold your soul to the Devil with Sam
I'm ust not convinced we have the players to play Allardyce's style effectively.
I'd take thatI'm ust not convinced we have the players to play Allardyce's style effectively.
Endless diagonal balls at Gestede to knock down for Sinclair.
I'd rather pull my head off my shoulders than appoint Allardyce.With you all the way about Allardyce, just be cause we are a shambles, does not mean the only answer is years of hoofball and fucking awful arrogant dull press conferences after every game, yes relic is a good description.
Sherwood is out of his depth. Allardyce is a fucking relic.
I'd sooner appoint someone like Chris Hughton than Allardyce, every time.
The problem with Big Sam is that we don't necessarily have the players to play his style of football. He'd have to make big adjustments to play to our strengths. And you just know without any shadow of a doubt he'd play Gabby for every single minute he can.
What about Sean Dyche?
I'd take thatI'm ust not convinced we have the players to play Allardyce's style effectively.
Endless diagonal balls at Gestede to knock down for Sinclair.
At least it's a game plan whereas today ?? This season, I see no plan , no method.I'd take thatI'm ust not convinced we have the players to play Allardyce's style effectively.
Endless diagonal balls at Gestede to knock down for Sinclair.
Because it worked so well in the first half today.
The problem with Big Sam is that we don't necessarily have the players to play his style of football. He'd have to make big adjustments to play to our strengths. And you just know without any shadow of a doubt he'd play Gabby for every single minute he can.
I'm ust not convinced we have the players to play Allardyce's style effectively. We need someone who knows what to do with what we have. This is of course as opposed to Sherwood, who doesn't know what to do with anything.Dont worry he would soon fill the place up with Giants, Nolan in, forget watching Gill or Jack they would be sold to make way for some camels and girafffes.
The problem with Big Sam is that we don't necessarily have the players to play his style of football. He'd have to make big adjustments to play to our strengths. And you just know without any shadow of a doubt he'd play Gabby for every single minute he can.
I don't know about that Monty. We have wingers and we have two centre forwards in Kozak and Gestede. He made Carroll look very decent again when he has healthy and even had Downing playing well. Look,it pains me to bring myself to want him but there was a time last season West Ham looked quite good. We are desperate and this is what desperation brings with it.
I'd take thatI'm ust not convinced we have the players to play Allardyce's style effectively.
Endless diagonal balls at Gestede to knock down for Sinclair.
The problem with Big Sam is that we don't necessarily have the players to play his style of football. He'd have to make big adjustments to play to our strengths. And you just know without any shadow of a doubt he'd play Gabby for every single minute he can.
I don't know about that Monty. We have wingers and we have two centre forwards in Kozak and Gestede. He made Carroll look very decent again when he has healthy and even had Downing playing well. Look,it pains me to bring myself to want him but there was a time last season West Ham looked quite good. We are desperate and this is what desperation brings with it.
If it means bringing Allardyce in I'd rather keep him a bit longer, I cannot stand watching Allardyce's brand of football. We've got a decent squad with a fair amount of young foreign players, surely there is a coach outside the British Isles who could do a better job than the usual uninspiring suspects?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it just a bit hard to swallow this line from a lot of people tbh about 'Allardyce's brand of football' - It's not as if we're renowned for our free flowing football over the years is it? So if it's a choice of watching crap football, and every so often taking three points I'll have that please, thank you.
This guy is hilarious. Hands up who thought that today would be the day for Crespo part of a back 5, Hutton as wingback and 3 centre mids all playing within 10 yards of each other? Gestede, I'm sorry, he can head a ball but as a team player he's fucking useless. Moves as much as an oak tree.
If it means bringing Allardyce in I'd rather keep him a bit longer, I cannot stand watching Allardyce's brand of football. We've got a decent squad with a fair amount of young foreign players, surely there is a coach outside the British Isles who could do a better job than the usual uninspiring suspects?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it just a bit hard to swallow this line from a lot of people tbh about 'Allardyce's brand of football' - It's not as if we're renowned for our free flowing football over the years is it? So if it's a choice of watching crap football, and every so often taking three points I'll have that please, thank you.
I tend to agree. I'm no fan of Pulis, but his football is no worse than Lambert's, and I'm not sure it's any worse than what we watched today.
Fat Sam is the ideal appointment for where we are as a club.
If it means bringing Allardyce in I'd rather keep him a bit longer, I cannot stand watching Allardyce's brand of football. We've got a decent squad with a fair amount of young foreign players, surely there is a coach outside the British Isles who could do a better job than the usual uninspiring suspects?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it just a bit hard to swallow this line from a lot of people tbh about 'Allardyce's brand of football' - It's not as if we're renowned for our free flowing football over the years is it? So if it's a choice of watching crap football, and every so often taking three points I'll have that please, thank you.
I'm not 100% against allardyce, but that's really damning with faint praise, there. I'd hope we'd be aiming a little higher this time than "he's got to be better than the previous manager".If it means bringing Allardyce in I'd rather keep him a bit longer, I cannot stand watching Allardyce's brand of football. We've got a decent squad with a fair amount of young foreign players, surely there is a coach outside the British Isles who could do a better job than the usual uninspiring suspects?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it just a bit hard to swallow this line from a lot of people tbh about 'Allardyce's brand of football' - It's not as if we're renowned for our free flowing football over the years is it? So if it's a choice of watching crap football, and every so often taking three points I'll have that please, thank you.
I tend to agree. I'm no fan of Pulis, but his football is no worse than Lambert's, and I'm not sure it's any worse than what we watched today.
I'm not 100% against allardyce, but that's really damning with faint praise, there. I'd hope we'd be aiming a little higher this time than "he's got to be better than the previous manager".If it means bringing Allardyce in I'd rather keep him a bit longer, I cannot stand watching Allardyce's brand of football. We've got a decent squad with a fair amount of young foreign players, surely there is a coach outside the British Isles who could do a better job than the usual uninspiring suspects?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it just a bit hard to swallow this line from a lot of people tbh about 'Allardyce's brand of football' - It's not as if we're renowned for our free flowing football over the years is it? So if it's a choice of watching crap football, and every so often taking three points I'll have that please, thank you.
I tend to agree. I'm no fan of Pulis, but his football is no worse than Lambert's, and I'm not sure it's any worse than what we watched today.
Fat Sam is the ideal appointment for where we are as a club.
At least it's a game plan whereas today ?? This season, I see no plan , no method.I'd take thatI'm ust not convinced we have the players to play Allardyce's style effectively.
Endless diagonal balls at Gestede to knock down for Sinclair.
Because it worked so well in the first half today.
This guy is hilarious. Hands up who thought that today would be the day for Crespo part of a back 5, Hutton as wingback and 3 centre mids all playing within 10 yards of each other? Gestede, I'm sorry, he can head a ball but as a team player he's fucking useless. Moves as much as an oak tree.
.... and when we saw the line up, the reaction on here was almost universal.
I've seen a few posts where people are saying it's time for Fox to admit his mistake etc. I don't think it was a mistake as Sherwood kept us up, I just think that's his limit though and now the right thing to do is to make a change and bring someone in who's experienced and proven tactically enough to bring together what looks like the makings of a good squad.It will have been a mistake if he relegates us this year, even more of a mistake by giving him 4 years. Yes, Sherwood did reverse a seemingly inevitable decline last season, but any number of managers could have done similar, particular when you consider the form benteke got himself in.
The problem with Big Sam is that we don't necessarily have the players to play his style of football. He'd have to make big adjustments to play to our strengths. And you just know without any shadow of a doubt he'd play Gabby for every single minute he can.
I don't know about that Monty. We have wingers and we have two centre forwards in Kozak and Gestede. He made Carroll look very decent again when he has healthy and even had Downing playing well. Look,it pains me to bring myself to want him but there was a time last season West Ham looked quite good. We are desperate and this is what desperation brings with it.
He did ok at Newcastle and West Ham, but they still wanted rid of him, does that not tell you something
When the fans want a manager out even when he's doing alright in the league proves that they could stand it any fucking longer
And you want to bring that in ?
I've seen a few posts where people are saying it's time for Fox to admit his mistake etc. I don't think it was a mistake as Sherwood kept us up, I just think that's his limit though and now the right thing to do is to make a change and bring someone in who's experienced and proven tactically enough to bring together what looks like the makings of a good squad.
I've seen a few posts where people are saying it's time for Fox to admit his mistake etc. I don't think it was a mistake as Sherwood kept us up, I just think that's his limit though and now the right thing to do is to make a change and bring someone in who's experienced and proven tactically enough to bring together what looks like the makings of a good squad.That's how I see it. His positivity was just what the players needed last year but his lack of experience is telling. We need a change right now, I just can't imagine for one minute that Sherwood can turn things around this time. His starting line up tells you all you need to know, out of his depth now and panicking.
It will have been a mistake if he relegates us this year, even more of a mistake by giving him 4 years. Yes, Sherwood did reverse a seemingly inevitable decline last season, but any number of managers could have done similar, particular when you consider the form benteke got himself in.
If it means bringing Allardyce in I'd rather keep him a bit longer, I cannot stand watching Allardyce's brand of football. We've got a decent squad with a fair amount of young foreign players, surely there is a coach outside the British Isles who could do a better job than the usual uninspiring suspects?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it just a bit hard to swallow this line from a lot of people tbh about 'Allardyce's brand of football' - It's not as if we're renowned for our free flowing football over the years is it? So if it's a choice of watching crap football, and every so often taking three points I'll have that please, thank you.
It isn't though, is it?
It certainly doesn't have to be, anyway.
If it means bringing Allardyce in I'd rather keep him a bit longer, I cannot stand watching Allardyce's brand of football. We've got a decent squad with a fair amount of young foreign players, surely there is a coach outside the British Isles who could do a better job than the usual uninspiring suspects?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it just a bit hard to swallow this line from a lot of people tbh about 'Allardyce's brand of football' - It's not as if we're renowned for our free flowing football over the years is it? So if it's a choice of watching crap football, and every so often taking three points I'll have that please, thank you.
It isn't though, is it?
It certainly doesn't have to be, anyway.
I just don't think the football we have to watch can be any worse than what's been on offer for the last five years. The Villa job is just too big (especially now) to risk another appointment with little or no experience of this league. I think even Klopp would struggle down the Villa.
Today, I thought we looked better once we had Gil, Grealish and Ayew on the pitch, and ideally I'd like a manager who could get the best out of these talented players, and I admit Allardyce is probably not that man. I just don't think it's possible for us to 'play' our way out of this mess at the moment. Allardyce would stabilise the club and be a stop gap (as at West Ham) until we get new owners and an actual purpose again.
Would Moyes come back from Spain?
Question. What makes people think Allardyce would come here?
If it means bringing Allardyce in I'd rather keep him a bit longer, I cannot stand watching Allardyce's brand of football. We've got a decent squad with a fair amount of young foreign players, surely there is a coach outside the British Isles who could do a better job than the usual uninspiring suspects?
I'm sorry but I'm finding it just a bit hard to swallow this line from a lot of people tbh about 'Allardyce's brand of football' - It's not as if we're renowned for our free flowing football over the years is it? So if it's a choice of watching crap football, and every so often taking three points I'll have that please, thank you.
It isn't though, is it?
It certainly doesn't have to be, anyway.
I just don't think the football we have to watch can be any worse than what's been on offer for the last five years. The Villa job is just too big (especially now) to risk another appointment with little or no experience of this league. I think even Klopp would struggle down the Villa.
Today, I thought we looked better once we had Gil, Grealish and Ayew on the pitch, and ideally I'd like a manager who could get the best out of these talented players, and I admit Allardyce is probably not that man. I just don't think it's possible for us to 'play' our way out of this mess at the moment. Allardyce would stabilise the club and be a stop gap (as at West Ham) until we get new owners and an actual purpose again.
I don't think Allardyce went into the West Ham job seeing himself as a stop gap.
I take your point about not being worse than it has for the last five years, but once again, how is that any basis on which to support a potential new manager?
If things have been so bad for five years - and they have, they really have been fucking awful - then surely it is still extremely easy to manage to be better than it has been yet still not good enough?
I don't want three years of slightly better than what we've had. I want years of it being MUCH better than it has.
Neither was Baldrick. Mind you his plans were shit as well.At least it's a game plan whereas today ?? This season, I see no plan , no method.I'd take thatI'm ust not convinced we have the players to play Allardyce's style effectively.
Endless diagonal balls at Gestede to knock down for Sinclair.
Because it worked so well in the first half today.
Hutton and Amavi were getting to the byline often enough, but the final ball was usually lacking. So the plan, if it could be called such, failed.
I reckon Timah reasoned that Gil and Grealish would be bullied and so kept hem on the bench until Sterk were tired.
Going from 3 central defenders to 2 cost us the goal, as the two had not adjusted properly and were too far apart.
So there was a plan, but not a very effective one. I don't think TS is ever short of plans, to be fair. He got some well wicked slick schemes up his sleeve innit.
Question. What makes people think Allardyce would come here?He is out work and Chelsea won't sack Mourinho and come for him.
Nobody is going to be sad to see the back of us, Newcastle or Sunderland. If ever three clubs deserved to get relegated,, it's us and the two North East teams.
Nobody is going to be sad to see the back of us, Newcastle or Sunderland. If ever three clubs deserved to get relegated,, it's us and the two North East teams.
Nobody is going to be sad to see the back of us, Newcastle or Sunderland. If ever three clubs deserved to get relegated,, it's us and the two North East teams.
We need a manger who has the vaguest idea of how to set a team up.With a Messiah in it, preferably.
4 points adrift 8 games in is spectacular.
I know it is early days, but with Palace 3rd, Leicester 4th and West Ham 5th, and with Southampton and Swansea being such thoroughly decent sides, why do so many of us just meekly accept that we have some sort of hex upon us whereby we can't possibly aspire to win matches every now and then? One which means we have to accept the likes of Allardyce as our manager?
4 points adrift 8 games in is spectacular.
Even Lambert never reached those dizzy heights.
4 points adrift 8 games in is spectacular.
Even Lambert never reached those dizzy heights.
Lambert must be laughing his head off.
4 points adrift 8 games in is spectacular.
Even Lambert never reached those dizzy heights.
Who is available? Allardyce, Pearson or Klopp, I know who I want.
Who is available? Allardyce, Pearson or Klopp, I know who I want.
When Sherwood said we wouldn't be in a relegation battle he must have meant we won't fight for our place. He got something right!
Who is available? Allardyce, Pearson or Klopp, I know who I want.
I wonder if Moyes can be tempted back into English football.
I can't believe it's the same manager who was leaping around the dug out at the end of last season.
I'm starting to think that something has gone on and it's led to his demeanor changing.
Dyche, Marco Bielsa or literally anyone but this clown would do for me
You work out how you want the team to play, you buy players who can do it, coach the others as best you can, instil a simple message and don't fuck about changing things every five minutes.
You'd think Sherwood won all these players in a raffle, rather than buying them specifically to fit his master plan.
I can't believe it's the same manager who was leaping around the dug out at the end of last season.
I'm starting to think that something has gone on and it's led to his demeanor changing.
I noticed that today, too.
Spent a lot of time sat down, expressionless.
Utterly clueless. Sherwood finished the game with the XI that probably should have started it. When he was first appointed, I was skeptical. In my BBC interview, I pontificated about how he had proved me wrong. I should have stuck to my initial assessment. 360 degrees.
Moyes won't come here. I have my doubts Fat Sam would either
I'm far from convinced they would.Moyes won't come here. I have my doubts Fat Sam would either
They both would, unfortunatly
I've seen a few posts where people are saying it's time for Fox to admit his mistake etc. I don't think it was a mistake as Sherwood kept us up, I just think that's his limit though and now the right thing to do is to make a change and bring someone in who's experienced and proven tactically enough to bring together what looks like the makings of a good squad.I reckon if I was appointed last season instead of Tictac Tim I'd have kept us up too. I'd have also fucked it up this season cause I'd have spent my limitations as a football manager.
Id get rid of him tomorrow if I knew we'd be able to attract a decent manager to replace him, but what manager worth his salt would want to work under the restrictions of our esteemed chairman and his "couldn't give a fuck" attitude?Not saying he would want to but Moyes might be able to achieve something here with the players we have and limited funds in January.
I can't believe it's the same manager who was leaping around the dug out at the end of last season.
I'm starting to think that something has gone on and it's led to his demeanor changing.
I noticed that today, too.
Spent a lot of time sat down, expressionless.
I can't believe it's the same manager who was leaping around the dug out at the end of last season.
I'm starting to think that something has gone on and it's led to his demeanor changing.
I noticed that today, too.
Spent a lot of time sat down, expressionless.
I honestly thing he's going through some kind of mental breakdown at the moment. A different and even more bizarre line up every game, formations being ripped up after each half, the increasingly fractured nature of his post match interviews - it's all far too random, and the result of a frazzled mind. I don't think his pride (or his bank manager) will allow him to quit, but I think it would be the best thing for him and us now...Section him Villa, section him now!
HE need to go. What do you think about Nigel Pearson ? Just asking. We need someone who will sort out system and tactics and maximise our squad and give us a fighting spirit and get rid of soft underbelly. So we need to find next Sir Alex Ferguson. i noticed Stoke have lot of giants and powerful players and we don't have enough of them as it is all middleweight players.No way
I can't think of any viable solutions. We've been in a death spiral for 6 years now which is going to be very difficult to pull out of.
Fuck him off, he's shit his pants quicker than Lambert did, at least Lambert stuck too his gung ho principles for 18 months before becoming petrified of losing, Sherwood had a plan at first, a park football lose attempting to win approach but at least it was a plan and it brought us some much needed entertainment and results, the Southampton game I feel has scarred him and now he's in that Lambert phase of becoming scared of losing, 5 at the back at home to fucking Stoke?
I would give it to Fat Sam simply on the basis that he would keep us up and lets face it there isn't many options out there.
Should get Ronnie Fucking Pickering
I would give it to Fat Sam simply on the basis that he would keep us up and lets face it there isn't many options out there.
And give us some stability which is exactly what we need. Couple of seasons of mid tanle mediocrity would suit me fine.
Fvck me im depressed with AVFC.
I would give it to Fat Sam simply on the basis that he would keep us up and lets face it there isn't many options out there.
And give us some stability which is exactly what we need. Couple of seasons of mid tanle mediocrity would suit me fine.
Fvck me im depressed with AVFC.
Sherwood sat motionless for the last 15 mins !? Wtf is that all about
Sherwood sat motionless for the last 15 mins !? Wtf is that all aboutOut of interest how do you know this? It never crosses my mind to look at the managers bench to see what they are doing. Suppose it's different if they are in your line of vision.
So what odds can we get on Sherwood, Mourinho, Advocaat, McLaren and Lancaster all getting the chop next week? And Robshaw being stripped of the England captaincy just to lengthen them a little
I watched on TV so not 100% sure but he seemed to have taken root to his seat.Sherwood sat motionless for the last 15 mins !? Wtf is that all aboutOut of interest how do you know this? It never crosses my mind to look at the managers bench to see what they are doing. Suppose it's different if they are in your line of vision.
any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
I also don't get the hostility towards Fat Sam. It's not like we've been playing scintillating, winning football for years.
For atleast 4 years, we've been clueless and lose ALOT. Someone on here mentioned that formwise we've been the worst side in the country for 4 years. Just being hard to beat would be an improvement.
any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.I wouldn't, I'd rather win a few games
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.No way. We need to not get relegated. At any cost.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
He was in my line of vision.Sherwood sat motionless for the last 15 mins !? Wtf is that all aboutOut of interest how do you know this? It never crosses my mind to look at the managers bench to see what they are doing. Suppose it's different if they are in your line of vision.
any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
He was in my line of vision.Sherwood sat motionless for the last 15 mins !? Wtf is that all aboutOut of interest how do you know this? It never crosses my mind to look at the managers bench to see what they are doing. Suppose it's different if they are in your line of vision.
He sat slumped and motionless with his arms folded for the last 15 mins plus 5 mins injury time.
He jumped up once after about 93 mins, clapped his hands, did a 'pearly king' jig and then sat down again.
Allardyce might be a decent shout if we were in a relegation spot after Christmas and simply needed someone competent to get us over the line, and he was one of a tiny number of candidates.
But it's only October. If Sherwood gets the bullet, there's still plenty of time and a transfer window for his replacement, so we should go for someone for the longer term.
You cannot Polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter. That's what Fat Sam will do, he can keep us up and then we can rethink matters.
Allardyce might be a decent shout if we were in a relegation spot after Christmas and simply needed someone competent to get us over the line, and he was one of a tiny number of candidates.Any suggestions then apart from big Sam?
But it's only October. If Sherwood gets the bullet, there's still plenty of time and a transfer window for his replacement, so we should go for someone for the longer term.
any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
Allardyce might be a decent shout if we were in a relegation spot after Christmas and simply needed someone competent to get us over the line, and he was one of a tiny number of candidates.
But it's only October. If Sherwood gets the bullet, there's still plenty of time and a transfer window for his replacement, so we should go for someone for the longer term.
Dont remember saying I wish but hey hoany one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
Lucky you, you may just get your wish
I think the reason people are thinking we could do worse than Allardyce is that you have a pretty decent idea of what you would get. Stability. Some of the other names from Europe are more like a roll of the dice. They might turn out to be brilliant or they might not.
We have such a momentum dragging us down at the moment, same as Newcastle and Sunderland have. If we could just have 2 or 3 years of average football, just acting like a regular premier league club with average results, it would at least help get rid of that momentum. We might not have a scintillating time but it wouldn't be like this misery either.
any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
Have you seen what we have been serving up for the majority of the last five years?
any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
Have you seen what we have been serving up for the majority of the last five years?
I dont remember Allardyce teams wingers.any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
Have you seen what we have been serving up for the majority of the last five years?
I'll concede that Allardyce won't be promoting liquid football any time soon, but don't compare him to Pulis. He is what he is and will always be. Allardyce plays direct football with wingers and a CF so something we can relate to. Pulls just brings the game into disrepute.
any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
Have you seen what we have been serving up for the majority of the last five years?
I'll concede that Allardyce won't be promoting liquid football any time soon, but don't compare him to Pulis. He is what he is and will always be. Allardyce plays direct football with wingers and a CF so something we can relate to. Pulls just brings the game into disrepute.
I dont remember Allardyce teams wingers.any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
Have you seen what we have been serving up for the majority of the last five years?
I'll concede that Allardyce won't be promoting liquid football any time soon, but don't compare him to Pulis. He is what he is and will always be. Allardyce plays direct football with wingers and a CF so something we can relate to. Pulls just brings the game into disrepute.
He Played Downing as a number 10 and did not allways start with JarvisI dont remember Allardyce teams wingers.any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
Have you seen what we have been serving up for the majority of the last five years?
I'll concede that Allardyce won't be promoting liquid football any time soon, but don't compare him to Pulis. He is what he is and will always be. Allardyce plays direct football with wingers and a CF so something we can relate to. Pulls just brings the game into disrepute.
He played Downing and Jarvis at West Ham didn't he.
He will be at Sunderland soon anyway, and when they are safe we can all moan that he would have done a job for us as we limp into the championship.
I got criticised for the tactics v Blues, I think he has shown his lack of tactical knowledge in the games since.
He Played Downing as a number 10 and did not allways start with JarvisI dont remember Allardyce teams wingers.any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
Have you seen what we have been serving up for the majority of the last five years?
I'll concede that Allardyce won't be promoting liquid football any time soon, but don't compare him to Pulis. He is what he is and will always be. Allardyce plays direct football with wingers and a CF so something we can relate to. Pulls just brings the game into disrepute.
He played Downing and Jarvis at West Ham didn't he.
He will be at Sunderland soon anyway, and when they are safe we can all moan that he would have done a job for us as we limp into the championship.
Can we not look a bit further afield than failed British managers or blokes with 15 minutes experience? There's a whole world out there.
Can we not look a bit further afield than failed British managers or blokes with 15 minutes experience? There's a whole world out there.
I agree. The issue will always be finding one at short order who is good and wants to leave their existing position mid season. Someone who is likely doing well and wants to takeover a side bottom or close to bottom of the table.
Give him another month to turn things around, but that's his lot.
Whether you were for or against his hiring, or just somewhere in between, absolutely nobody could have seen this happening so quickly. It is a disaster.
Keep us up and sacked by November.Same.
16th place this season, horrendous start to next season, whole sorry process starts all over again.
Most depressing thing is that "Aston Villa manager Sam Allardyce" is starting to sound quite decent and I can't stand the square headed twonk.
Whether you were for or against his hiring, or just somewhere in between, absolutely nobody could have seen this happening so quickly. It is a disaster.
That's not really true. A couple of us said that this was exactly what was going to happen.Keep us up and sacked by November.Same.
16th place this season, horrendous start to next season, whole sorry process starts all over again.
Whether you were for or against his hiring, or just somewhere in between, absolutely nobody could have seen this happening so quickly. It is a disaster.
That's not really true. A couple of us said that this was exactly what was going to happen.Keep us up and sacked by November.Same.
16th place this season, horrendous start to next season, whole sorry process starts all over again.
Blimey, I'll be PM'ing you tonight's Canadian lottery numbers. Off course where I hope it is wrong is if he lasts until November.
Most depressing thing is that "Aston Villa manager Sam Allardyce" is starting to sound quite decent and I can't stand the square headed twonk.
It feels safe. And for too long we have been clinging to safe with our fingernails.
Not that it matters, as I said he will go to Sunderland who will blink first, and we will be on played 13, points 4, and taking anyone that will be mad enough to come in.
Most depressing thing is that "Aston Villa manager Sam Allardyce" is starting to sound quite decent and I can't stand the square headed twonk.
any one see Albion anti football against Palace today? and people want that for The Villa, that is what Fat Sam brings.
No thanks I would rather be relegated.
I can't understand why any football loving person would actually want Alardyce as Villa manager,
The thing is with big Sam is you know exactly what your getting, Tripe, week in week out utter tripe, but hey he'l keep you in the prem playing tripe e very week
I know it's been the same with Lambert and Sherwood but at least they came in promising jam tomorrow, Alardyce just promises tripe and that's what you get,
Why would anyone want to go and watch that shit every week, you know the shit that Newcastle and West Ham fans couldn't put up with because it was so crap,
I know we are a starving man but signing up for a diet of gruel every day doesn't fill me with any enthusiasm, I don't know why anyone sees it as a rational option for Aston Villa
I admit I'm shit scared of Alardyce as Villa manager, absolutely cracking my pants of having that fucking anti football man at the helm at Villa, we would certainly have hit rock bottom with that sort of surrender of every football principal at the club,
If he was the manager I wouldn't care less if we stayed up or went down because the football would be predictably crap so what would be the point,
If you don't like Chinese food you don't go to a Chinese restaurant, I don't like Alardyce football i hate it, it offers nothing only maybe some sort of sudo safety
For those saying well that's what we've got now I agree, but it doesn't mean we should accept that crap,
We need to keep some hope of bread and roses
Klopp did say he wanted a challenge.Let's not set the bar too high I will be happy with Klopp winning two on the trot!
Well come on down mate, winning three on the spin would equal anything you did at Dortmund.
Two in a month would suffice.Klopp did say he wanted a challenge.Let's not set the bar too high I will be happy with Klopp winning two on the trot!
Well come on down mate, winning three on the spin would equal anything you did at Dortmund.
Who does Tom Fox turn to when he needs advice ? Would it be our new DoF ?
It does again highlight the ludicrousness of footballs seemingly endless propensity for appointing people to senior positions without the required experience. Imagine if I rocked up to Lloyd House at the age of 45 applying for a job as Chief Inspector, getting it, then watching the crime figures in my area go through the roof. And then blaming it on having a lot of younger officers getting used to the conditions having been recruited from the Jean D'armerie.There is no worry there because once you realise crime figures are going against you you will use the stats available in a different way to show the immense improvement you have made since your appointment.
I can't understand why any football loving person would actually want Alardyce as Villa manager,
The thing is with big Sam is you know exactly what your getting, Tripe, week in week out utter tripe, but hey he'l keep you in the prem playing tripe e very week
I know it's been the same with Lambert and Sherwood but at least they came in promising jam tomorrow, Alardyce just promises tripe and that's what you get,
Why would anyone want to go and watch that shit every week, you know the shit that Newcastle and West Ham fans couldn't put up with because it was so crap,
I know we are a starving man but signing up for a diet of gruel every day doesn't fill me with any enthusiasm, I don't know why anyone sees it as a rational option for Aston Villa
I admit I'm shit scared of Alardyce as Villa manager, absolutely cracking my pants of having that fucking anti football man at the helm at Villa, we would certainly have hit rock bottom with that sort of surrender of every football principal at the club,
If he was the manager I wouldn't care less if we stayed up or went down because the football would be predictably crap so what would be the point,
If you don't like Chinese food you don't go to a Chinese restaurant, I don't like Alardyce football i hate it, it offers nothing only maybe some sort of sudo safety
For those saying well that's what we've got now I agree, but it doesn't mean we should accept that crap,
We need to keep some hope of bread and roses
for anyone in any doubt, I don't like the bloke
I can't understand why any football loving person would actually want Alardyce as Villa manager,
The security blanket feeling that there's someone with some sort of a viable plan in charge
The thing is with big Sam is you know exactly what your getting, Tripe, week in week out utter tripe, but hey he'l keep you in the prem playing tripe e very week.
As someone at work reminded me last week, principles tend to be for those who can afford them. 2 or 3 years of not quite purgatory, or the risk of a decade or more in the wilderness?
I know it's been the same with Lambert and Sherwood but at least they came in promising jam tomorrow, Unfortunately they only knew the recipe for the kind of chocolate tart served up in Niceville]Alardyce just promises tripe and that's what you get,[Sometimes the medicine to cure a disease tastes vile
Why would anyone want to go and watch that shit every week, you know the shit that Newcastle and West Ham fans couldn't put up with because itwas so crap,didn't live up to their self important, media fed, bullshit ideal of how their clubs should play. And that'll be the same Newcastle that went down after they'd parted company with Alardyce and nearly pulled the same trick with Pardew and the West Ham where Julian Dicks is still a cult hero?
I know we are a starving man but signing up for a diet of gruel every day doesn't fill me with any enthusiasm, I don't know why anyone sees it as a rational option for Aston Villa
I admit I'm shit scared of Alardyce as Villa manager, absolutely cracking my pants of having that fucking anti football man at the helm at Villa, we would certainly have hit rock bottom with that sort of surrender of every football principal at the club, Welcome to the Premier League
If he was the manager I wouldn't care less if we stayed up or went down because the football would be predictably crap so what would be the point,
If you don't like Chinese food you don't go to a Chinese restaurant, I don't like Alardyce football i hate it, it offers nothing only maybe some sort of sudo safety
For those saying well that's what we've got now I agree, but it doesn't mean we should accept that crap,
We need to keep some hope of bread and roses
84% say get rid, even McLeish took 8 months od a season to get that much discourse.
Bin him, more humane for all parties. Hopelessly out of his depth.
My heart says no, my head says definite yes - everything about the team is wrong at the moment apart from Micah Richards. Give me 11 Micah Richards please.Looks to me like we have a centre back in goal already
Whether you agree with doing it or not, the booing after the final whistle yesterday was louder than any I ever heard directed at Lambert.
I like a lot of his purchases, some of the football I've seen and realise that it's hard integrating so many players.
But his team selection yesterday and him more or less saying that he doesn't know what he's doing is very alarming.
I'd go one worse than Allardyce and get Redknapp in. Although doesn't he have a bit of an issue with the fans here?!
Whether you agree with doing it or not, the booing after the final whistle yesterday was louder than any I ever heard directed at Lambert.
I think people's patience is exhausted. It's been 'jam tomorrow' for too long.
It's frustrating. It's not as if we're getting thrashed every week but we can't carry on losing either. I'd still like to see him get more time to be honest.
We need to show some ambition and get somebody who's actually impressive. We're one of the richest clubs on the planet and should be able to afford one of the best managers on the planet. Even fucking Watford have shown more ambition than us.
Absolutely NO to Allardyce or similar mediocre home-grown shite. He might keep us up but so did O'Leary, McLeish, Lambert and Sherwood. It's not that difficult. We should be aiming at better than that and get a manager who can improve us significantly like Southampton have by refusing to put "must have spent lots of time jobbing around the bottom of the Premier League" on their job description.
I wouldn't get rid of Sherwood but we could get a pretty good manager in. Let's not forget McLeish was one of the top twenty highest paid mangers in the world, I doubt much has changed pay wise with the last couple.
Allardyce would be an aspirational appointment. The prospect of going back up the M6 from Villa Park happy more than five pathetic times a season would be a god send.
I don't care what we are like to watch. I am just sick to death of losing, of being a soft touch for shit clubs like Stoke fucking City to come and breeze to three points.
Allardyce would be an aspirational appointment. The prospect of going back up the M6 from Villa Park happy more than five pathetic times a season would be a god send.
I don't care what we are like to watch. I am just sick to death of losing, of being a soft touch for shit clubs like Stoke fucking City to come and breeze to three points.
Albion fans were saying the same thing about Pulis and now they're moaning about the football they play. I don't want to go down that road.
Allardyce would be an aspirational appointment. The prospect of going back up the M6 from Villa Park happy more than five pathetic times a season would be a god send.
I don't care what we are like to watch. I am just sick to death of losing, of being a soft touch for shit clubs like Stoke fucking City to come and breeze to three points.
Albion fans were saying the same thing about Pulis and now they're moaning about the football they play. I don't want to go down that road.
So would you prefer to be relegated rather than have Sam Allardyce as manager.......
Who says we're going to get relegated?What signs have you seen from this season to suggest that anything else is probable?
Who says we're going to get relegated?What signs have you seen from this season to suggest that anything else is probable?
I think Tim was right about the fitness levels, Stoke seemed quicker, stronger and pressed the ball in packs of two or three in a way we didn't seem capable of.
I think Tim was right about the fitness levels, Stoke seemed quicker, stronger and pressed the ball in packs of two or three in a way we didn't seem capable of.
Not having a go, but that is some monumental straw clutching.Who says we're going to get relegated?What signs have you seen from this season to suggest that anything else is probable?
Because we're only 8 games in. Just because we're in the bottom three now, doesn't mean we will be in May. Having a little optimism doesn't hurt.
Not having a go, but that is some monumental straw clutching.Who says we're going to get relegated?What signs have you seen from this season to suggest that anything else is probable?
Because we're only 8 games in. Just because we're in the bottom three now, doesn't mean we will be in May. Having a little optimism doesn't hurt.
I always felt West Ham fans were a little harsh on tubby Sam. I know it wasn't pretty most of the time (they actually played decent footy in the first half of last season, with Downing in the hole and Sakho in form). But they're a yo-yo club who he's given stability to. If there's one thing Big Sam doesn't do (as of yet), it's relegate sides. It may be dour at times but he'll keep you up and have you well drilled. He'll also use certain players effectively. I think we'd see Gestede given more to work with.
We have good players here. We just need someone to get that backline into shape, and get players playing.
The worry with Fat Sam is, he could hamper the development of Grealish. I'm not sure he'd fancy him. In addition I think we'd see very little of Gil.
I would take him in a heartbeat right now. Right now we're shit to watch (aside from 10-20 minutes here and there) and we're not picking up results. I'd rather be shit to watch and pick up results. The latter will keep us up.
We're going down under Sherwood. We can't wait around this time. We diced with death leaving it late last year. Sherwoods used up all his luck and impact now. We missed out on Pulis last year by not bulleting Lambert sooner. Say what you like about Tiny Penis but we'd be looking in better nick right now under him. And he's ultimately done better at that mob than Sherwood has here, regardless of our cup run.
I always felt West Ham fans were a little harsh on tubby Sam. I know it wasn't pretty most of the time (they actually played decent footy in the first half of last season, with Downing in the hole and Sakho in form). But they're a yo-yo club who he's given stability to. If there's one thing Big Sam doesn't do (as of yet), it's relegate sides. It may be dour at times but he'll keep you up and have you well drilled. He'll also use certain players effectively. I think we'd see Gestede given more to work with.
We have good players here. We just need someone to get that backline into shape, and get players playing.
The worry with Fat Sam is, he could hamper the development of Grealish. I'm not sure he'd fancy him. In addition I think we'd see very little of Gil.
I would take him in a heartbeat right now. Right now we're shit to watch (aside from 10-20 minutes here and there) and we're not picking up results. I'd rather be shit to watch and pick up results. The latter will keep us up.
We're going down under Sherwood. We can't wait around this time. We diced with death leaving it late last year. Sherwoods used up all his luck and impact now. We missed out on Pulis last year by not bulleting Lambert sooner. Say what you like about Tiny Penis but we'd be looking in better nick right now under him. And he's ultimately done better at that mob than Sherwood has here, regardless of our cup run.
Allardyce would be an aspirational appointment. The prospect of going back up the M6 from Villa Park happy more than five pathetic times a season would be a god send.
I don't care what we are like to watch. I am just sick to death of losing, of being a soft touch for shit clubs like Stoke fucking City to come and breeze to three points.
Albion fans were saying the same thing about Pulis and now they're moaning about the football they play. I don't want to go down that road.
So would you prefer to be relegated rather than have Sam Allardyce as manager.......
Not having a go, but that is some monumental straw clutching.Who says we're going to get relegated?What signs have you seen from this season to suggest that anything else is probable?
Because we're only 8 games in. Just because we're in the bottom three now, doesn't mean we will be in May. Having a little optimism doesn't hurt.
Fox should be sounding out Favre who has just left Mönchengladbach. With modest resources, he's had three tremendous seasons there. Not really sure why he chose to leave, despite having had a crap start to this season. It was interesting that the club tried to convince him to stay. He would get far better from this group of players. If there is an indication that he would come, then Sherwood should be fired now rather than waiting for us to cast be further adrift.
Looks like Sunderland are managerless
Just hope they appoint alardyce pronto then I can sleep well in bed again
I don't think a managerial trio of Ferguson, Guardiola and Herbert Chapman could stop Sunderland getting relegated this year.
The poll results are remarkable. I really didn't think there'd be that sort of turnaround in opinions within a week.
Sorry Ozz, I just can't see it. There's a reason the manager is resigning, rather than being sacked. All the Sunderland fans I know and all the Sunderland people I read will tell you there's something absolutely rotten at the heart of that dressing room.
The poll results are remarkable. I really didn't think there'd be that sort of turnaround in opinions within a week.
The poll results are remarkable. I really didn't think there'd be that sort of turnaround in opinions within a week.
I'm not sure Lambert ever had such bad results in the polls on here, apart from maybe right at the very end.
It could well be that those who advocated patience and time with lambert now realise that this only works if the manager is showing signs of improvement. As with lambert, we're now getting worse under sherwood, not better.The poll results are remarkable. I really didn't think there'd be that sort of turnaround in opinions within a week.
I'm not sure Lambert ever had such bad results in the polls on here, apart from maybe right at the very end.
Give him another 5 games, if nothing is improving let's hope the fucking num nuts in charge have learnt their lesson and won't let things drift and drift.
Sorry Ozz, I just can't see it. There's a reason the manager is resigning, rather than being sacked. All the Sunderland fans I know and all the Sunderland people I read will tell you there's something absolutely rotten at the heart of that dressing room.
We will see but then with Fat Sam and us sticking with Timmy I know who I would bert on getting more points.
Every time we have a discussion about Allardyce. Why, I wonder, is the man some see as the answer to our problems also regularly available?
Our next 6 are Chelsea (a) Swansea (h) Saints LC (a) Spurs (a) Citeh (h) Everton (a). Even if we were in any kind of form I wouldn't expect us to get much of a haul from those games.
The poll results are remarkable. I really didn't think there'd be that sort of turnaround in opinions within a week.
I'm not sure Lambert ever had such bad results in the polls on here, apart from maybe right at the very end.
You're right, I think after the Hull non performance the poll was 90%. We've collared on to the chancer man quick this time because we've seen it before.
Our next 6 are Chelsea (a) Swansea (h) Saints LC (a) Spurs (a) Citeh (h) Everton (a). Even if we were in any kind of form I wouldn't expect us to get much of a haul from those games.
Every time we have a discussion about Allardyce. Why, I wonder, is the man some see as the answer to our problems also regularly available?
How is he regularly available?
He's had 4 jobs in 16 years, which is pretty stable by most standards.
Agree. I think we are now approaching the time when we can expect things to start improving and the settling in argument becomes invalid.Give him another 5 games, if nothing is improving let's hope the fucking num nuts in charge have learnt their lesson and won't let things drift and drift.
Sounds reasonable. In the meantime we should start a poll for Sherwood's likely successor because I don't think he can turn this around.
Our next 6 are Chelsea (a) Swansea (h) Saints LC (a) Spurs (a) Citeh (h) Everton (a). Even if we were in any kind of form I wouldn't expect us to get much of a haul from those games.
It does seem a up hill battle does that
If I could say anything to Sherwood it would be if your going to go, them go fighting,
Stick to the original principles you started with, attacking line ups, caution to the wind, and have a go, it doesn't always work see Liecester, but it's got to be better than the negative lineups we have put out against blues and Stoke
Build your team around Gill, Grealish, Ayew and Traore not all at once obviously but go out with a bang if that's where your heading, just like you did when you first came
Our next 6 are Chelsea (a) Swansea (h) Saints LC (a) Spurs (a) Citeh (h) Everton (a). Even if we were in any kind of form I wouldn't expect us to get much of a haul from those games.
It does seem a up hill battle does that
If I could say anything to Sherwood it would be if your going to go, them go fighting,
Stick to the original principles you started with, attacking line ups, caution to the wind, and have a go, it doesn't always work see Liecester, but it's got to be better than the negative lineups we have put out against blues and Stoke
Build your team around Gill, Grealish, Ayew and Traore not all at once obviously but go out with a bang if that's where your heading, just like you did when you first came
I agree.
The defence seems a reasonable unit if we can minimise the individual mistakes that have blighted the season so far. Pick two from Sanchez/Westwood/Gana/Vertout, pick three from Jack/Gil/Ayew/Traore/Cole/Bacuna and a front man and I don't think we are far from an entertaining, winning side.
I hope Sherwood turns the corner soon as I'd hate to see the above promising team turn into a few seasons of Allardyce.
I think he'll do it as well.
Every time we have a discussion about Allardyce. Why, I wonder, is the man some see as the answer to our problems also regularly available?
How is he regularly available?Every time we have a discussion about Allardyce. Why, I wonder, is the man some see as the answer to our problems also regularly available?
How is he regularly available?
He's had 4 jobs in 16 years, which is pretty stable by most standards.
He's had 4 jobs in 16 years, which is pretty stable by most standards.
Every time we have a discussion about Allardyce. Why, I wonder, is the man some see as the answer to our problems also regularly available?
How is he regularly available?Every time we have a discussion about Allardyce. Why, I wonder, is the man some see as the answer to our problems also regularly available?
How is he regularly available?
He's had 4 jobs in 16 years, which is pretty stable by most standards.
He's had 4 jobs in 16 years, which is pretty stable by most standards.
That's massively skewed by the amount of time he spent at Bolton. Since then he has been sacked twice and not had his contract renewed at West Ham.
Every time we have a discussion about Allardyce. Why, I wonder, is the man some see as the answer to our problems also regularly available?
How is he regularly available?
He's had 4 jobs in 16 years, which is pretty stable by most standards.
We'd have hit rock bottom if we ever employed Fat Sam in my opinion.
I thought he looked pretty poor at Newcastle, to be honest. Yes the fans were delusional, but his football was indeed the usual eye-stabbing awfulness.
We'd have hit rock bottom if we ever employed Fat Sam in my opinion.
Every time we have a discussion about Allardyce. Why, I wonder, is the man some see as the answer to our problems also regularly available?
How is he regularly available?Every time we have a discussion about Allardyce. Why, I wonder, is the man some see as the answer to our problems also regularly available?
How is he regularly available?
He's had 4 jobs in 16 years, which is pretty stable by most standards.
He's had 4 jobs in 16 years, which is pretty stable by most standards.
That's massively skewed by the amount of time he spent at Bolton. Since then he has been sacked twice and not had his contract renewed at West Ham.
OK, well even since Bolton it's 3 jobs in 8 years. So using your criteria, we shouldn't go for a manager who has ever been sacked or who has had more than 3 jobs in 8 years.
We'd have hit rock bottom if we ever employed Fat Sam in my opinion.
We'd have hit rock bottom if we ever employed Fat Sam in my opinion.
We will hit rock bottom if we continue with Sherwood.
I say if Sunderland take Allardyce, so be it. If not, we've got him there as a get-out if we go another 4 or 5 without winning and we're forced to sack Sherwood.
The only realistic name out there I'd swap in right now would be Moyes. If we can get him then the decision is made.
ABA
Every time we have a discussion about Allardyce. Why, I wonder, is the man some see as the answer to our problems also regularly available?
How is he regularly available?Every time we have a discussion about Allardyce. Why, I wonder, is the man some see as the answer to our problems also regularly available?
How is he regularly available?
He's had 4 jobs in 16 years, which is pretty stable by most standards.
He's had 4 jobs in 16 years, which is pretty stable by most standards.
That's massively skewed by the amount of time he spent at Bolton. Since then he has been sacked twice and not had his contract renewed at West Ham.
OK, well even since Bolton it's 3 jobs in 8 years. So using your criteria, we shouldn't go for a manager who has ever been sacked or who has had more than 3 jobs in 8 years.
We shouldn't go for Allardyce as I don't like him or the football his teams play, the regular dismissals just emphasis that I am not alone in thinking that. He'll be divisive from day, similar to McLeish, and players like Grealish and Gil would not get a look in.
I say if Sunderland take Allardyce, so be it. If not, we've got him there as a get-out if we go another 4 or 5 without winning and we're forced to sack Sherwood.
The only realistic name out there I'd swap in right now would be Moyes. If we can get him then the decision is made.
I'd take Moyes in a heartbeat, but again would he work under Lerner? I'd doubt if any top manager would.
I notice Sherwood was sporting the unshaven lost manager look of Paul Lambert last night.
IIRC even Ferguson said his dismissal at Blackburn was ridiculous.
I say if Sunderland take Allardyce, so be it. If not, we've got him there as a get-out if we go another 4 or 5 without winning and we're forced to sack Sherwood.
The only realistic name out there I'd swap in right now would be Moyes. If we can get him then the decision is made.
I'd take Moyes in a heartbeat, but again would he work under Lerner? I'd doubt if any top manager would.
How many times have we heard a middle of the road manager like Moyes is (who I would happily take, BTW) turn down a team because of ownership, unless they have a reputation for complete and utter mentalism? Offer him enough money and give him enough vague promises, that's all that's required.
IIRC even Ferguson said his dismissal at Blackburn was ridiculous.
IIRC even Ferguson said his dismissal at Blackburn was ridiculous.
Well he would say that considering he's a big mate of Allardyce.
IIRC even Ferguson said his dismissal at Blackburn was ridiculous.
Well he would say that considering he's a big mate of Allardyce.
IIRC even Ferguson said his dismissal at Blackburn was ridiculous.
Well he would say that considering he's a big mate of Allardyce.
Considering what's happened to Blackburn since, he wasn't wrong was he.
Chris, sorry that's just not true. What regular dismissals are you referring to? He was fired at Blackburn and Newcastle. He left Bolton and his contract not extended at West Ham. Where has he not tried to integrate skill players? He's had several at the clubs he's had. Not like he cast any of them aside. That he'll be divisive for fans goes saying and whether you like his football or not is opinion. But other two things simply don't add up.
Chris, sorry that's just not true. What regular dismissals are you referring to? He was fired at Blackburn and Newcastle. He left Bolton and his contract not extended at West Ham. Where has he not tried to integrate skill players? He's had several at the clubs he's had. Not like he cast any of them aside. That he'll be divisive for fans goes saying and whether you like his football or not is opinion. But other two things simply don't add up.
His last three jobs he has either been sacked (Newcastle, Blackburn) or nor had his contract renewed (West Ham), i.e. in each case the club no longer wanted him.
Well, each of those clubs is an absolute shambles. He wouldn't have taken Newcastle down that year. Plus Allardyce will not hide his feelings if he thinks his employer is a clown. I'd piggy back the big gruff bastard here if he wanted the job. We're such a load of dog shite at the moment that if we went down we'd need to scrape the whole place clean, top to bottom, before starting again. We're so bad at the moment in every aspect that you could stick Baldrick in the board room and tell him to come up with a cunning plan to transform us, and it would be a cut above what that plonker Randy and his prat mate Fox would come up with.Chris, sorry that's just not true. What regular dismissals are you referring to? He was fired at Blackburn and Newcastle. He left Bolton and his contract not extended at West Ham. Where has he not tried to integrate skill players? He's had several at the clubs he's had. Not like he cast any of them aside. That he'll be divisive for fans goes saying and whether you like his football or not is opinion. But other two things simply don't add up.
His last three jobs he has either been sacked (Newcastle, Blackburn) or nor had his contract renewed (West Ham), i.e. in each case the club no longer wanted him.
...Any self respecting manager with PL experience would see us as a toxic option at the moment.This is kind of where I am at the moment
Chris, sorry that's just not true. What regular dismissals are you referring to? He was fired at Blackburn and Newcastle. He left Bolton and his contract not extended at West Ham. Where has he not tried to integrate skill players? He's had several at the clubs he's had. Not like he cast any of them aside. That he'll be divisive for fans goes saying and whether you like his football or not is opinion. But other two things simply don't add up.
His last three jobs he has either been sacked (Newcastle, Blackburn) or nor had his contract renewed (West Ham), i.e. in each case the club no longer wanted him.
How much did it look like any of those were going down when he left? What happened to Blackburn and Newcastle after he left? And how many times has Pardew been sacked in the same time period?
I'd prefer not to have Allardyce, but am not going to try and skew things just to suit that.
Yes, which is another problem....Any self respecting manager with PL experience would see us as a toxic option at the moment.This is kind of where I am at the moment
Claudio Ranieri has been sacked/left by mutual consent from about his last 8 jobs, he's doing OK at the moment.y
I am not skewing anything, for whatever reason his last 3 clubs wanted rid of him. He's a divisive figure and I am sure that applies to his bosses and players as much as it does to the supporters. One thing that particularly grates with me is if his team wins then he puts it down to the work he has done if they lose then it is all the players.So much of the above could be attributed to Sherwood. The only difference I see is that he's got a track record of getting results and seems tactically clued-in (whether you like his tactics or not, he always seemed to have a plan and it was often effective), unlike our current manager.
We don't have a vacancy at the moment but if and when we do I want us to set our sights higher.
It's early days too. Leicester may struggle yet.Claudio Ranieri has been sacked/left by mutual consent from about his last 8 jobs, he's doing OK at the moment.y
He doesn't come with the stigma of god awful anti-football though.
For me, the biggest thing against Sherwood is he's now been here since Feb, and doesn't seem to have any idea of the system he wants us to play. That's a woeful situation to be in, even McLeish and Lambert had a system they wanted us playing (no matter how shit it was) so the players could train all week etc to get used to it. We just seem to be winging it every week.Spot on, has anybody got a clue what his preferred system is? The manager needs to have a plan and install confidence in the team that that plan will work, we have two plans each match which demonstrates his lack of experience and self belief.
At the very least, know what the fuck you want your squad to be trying to do.
Would people be clamoring for Allardyce if he was still in a job or is it just because he's available?
Chris, sorry that's just not true. What regular dismissals are you referring to? He was fired at Blackburn and Newcastle. He left Bolton and his contract not extended at West Ham. Where has he not tried to integrate skill players? He's had several at the clubs he's had. Not like he cast any of them aside. That he'll be divisive for fans goes saying and whether you like his football or not is opinion. But other two things simply don't add up.
His last three jobs he has either been sacked (Newcastle, Blackburn) or nor had his contract renewed (West Ham), i.e. in each case the club no longer wanted him.
How much did it look like any of those were going down when he left? What happened to Blackburn and Newcastle after he left? And how many times has Pardew been sacked in the same time period?
I'd prefer not to have Allardyce, but am not going to try and skew things just to suit that.
I am not skewing anything, for whatever reason his last 3 clubs wanted rid of him. He's a divisive figure and I am sure that applies to his bosses and players as much as it does to the supporters. One thing that particularly grates with me is if his team wins then he puts it down to the work he has done if they lose then it is all the players.
We don't have a vacancy at the moment but if and when we do I want us to set our sights higher.
Exactly. And also because it would be unlikely, were Sherwood to be given the sack soon, that we'd be looking anywhere else other than out of work managers.Would people be clamoring for Allardyce if he was still in a job or is it just because he's available?
Virtually no one is clamouring for him, just pointing out that as things stand, he'd be better than what we currently have and would probably keep us up. Which shows how shit we are at present.
I am not skewing anything, for whatever reason his last 3 clubs wanted rid of him. He's a divisive figure and I am sure that applies to his bosses and players as much as it does to the supporters. One thing that particularly grates with me is if his team wins then he puts it down to the work he has done if they lose then it is all the players.
We don't have a vacancy at the moment but if and when we do I want us to set our sights higher.
For me, the biggest thing against Sherwood is he's now been here since Feb, and doesn't seem to have any idea of the system he wants us to play. That's a woeful situation to be in, even McLeish and Lambert had a system they wanted us playing (no matter how shit it was) so the players could train all week etc to get used to it. We just seem to be winging it every week.
At the very least, know what the fuck you want your squad to be trying to do.
We'd have hit rock bottom if we ever employed Fat Sam in my opinion.
Would people be clamoring for Allardyce if he was still in a job or is it just because he's available?
Virtually no one is clamouring for him, just pointing out that as things stand, he'd be better than what we currently have and would probably keep us up. Which shows how shit we are at present.
We'd have hit rock bottom if we ever employed Fat Sam in my opinion.
Just out of interest, how close to rock bottom were we when we employed McLeish?
I am not skewing anything, for whatever reason his last 3 clubs wanted rid of him. He's a divisive figure and I am sure that applies to his bosses and players as much as it does to the supporters. One thing that particularly grates with me is if his team wins then he puts it down to the work he has done if they lose then it is all the players.
We don't have a vacancy at the moment but if and when we do I want us to set our sights higher.
His last three bosses have been Mike Ashley, Venkys and the Porn Brothers.
I am not skewing anything, for whatever reason his last 3 clubs wanted rid of him. He's a divisive figure and I am sure that applies to his bosses and players as much as it does to the supporters. One thing that particularly grates with me is if his team wins then he puts it down to the work he has done if they lose then it is all the players.
We don't have a vacancy at the moment but if and when we do I want us to set our sights higher.
His last three bosses have been Mike Ashley, Venkys and the Porn Brothers.
We'd have hit rock bottom if we ever employed Fat Sam in my opinion.
Just out of interest, how close to rock bottom were we when we employed McLeish?
I think we finished 9th after beating Liverpool 1-0 in the last match of the season. A game mostly remembered for the relegation of SHA.
We'd have hit rock bottom if we ever employed Fat Sam in my opinion.
Just out of interest, how close to rock bottom were we when we employed McLeish?
I think we finished 9th after beating Liverpool 1-0 in the last match of the season. A game mostly remembered for the relegation of SHA.
We'd have hit rock bottom if we ever employed Fat Sam in my opinion.
Just out of interest, how close to rock bottom were we when we employed McLeish?
I think we finished 9th after beating Liverpool 1-0 in the last match of the season. A game mostly remembered for the relegation of SHA.
we finished 9th but from memory i think 6 teams were separeted by a point
We'd have hit rock bottom if we ever employed Fat Sam in my opinion.
Just out of interest, how close to rock bottom were we when we employed McLeish?
I think we finished 9th after beating Liverpool 1-0 in the last match of the season. A game mostly remembered for the relegation of SHA.
we finished 9th but from memory i think 6 teams were separeted by a point
Sherwood also seems immune to any media stick. McLaren, Advocaat and even Mouriniho are under pressure yet our Tim escapesDunno there's been a few articles querying his tactics now
Sherwood also seems immune to any media stick. McLaren, Advocaat and even Mouriniho are under pressure yet our Tim escapesDunno there's been a few articles querying his tactics now
I am not Big Sam's biggest fan and have said in the past I would hate him to be our manager however I think we are in such a poor state at the moment that he might be the short term answer.
His results as a manager speak for themselves and that is what we need now results. It looks like every team he has managed have finished better than when he started with them and they have all been worse after him (West Ham are the only team bucking that trend at the moment).
Here are his league finishes since Bolton
01-02 Bolton 16th
02-03 Bolton 17th
03/04 Bolton 8th
04/05 Bolton 6th
05/06 Bolton 8th
06/07 Bolton 7th (Bolton didn’t finish above 13th after he left)
07/08 Newcastle left them 11th
08/09 Blackburn 15th
09/10 Blackburn (1st full season) 10th
10/11 Blackburn left in 13th
11/12 West Ham 3rd in championship (promoted through play offs)
12/13 West Ham 10th
13/14 West ham 13th
14/15 West Ham 12th
I don't think he would be the answer long term but he might be able to make a team out of the bunch of individuals we seem to have at the moment which is more than TS seems to be doing.
Sherwood also seems immune to any media stick. McLaren, Advocaat and even Mouriniho are under pressure yet our Tim escapesDunno there's been a few articles querying his tactics now
I bet Sherwood is eternally grateful for the Chelsea debacle and to a lesser extent Newcastle's plight otherwise it would be him getting the headlines.
I haven't read the papers lately but the BBC never slag him off. The BBC coverage off us is awful though I have never saw a pundit say what are first 11 should be.Sherwood also seems immune to any media stick. McLaren, Advocaat and even Mouriniho are under pressure yet our Tim escapesDunno there's been a few articles querying his tactics now
Rodgers is now available it seems
Rodgers is now available it seems
I wonder if managerial departures come in three...?
I called it last week...Rodgers sacked. Get him in tonight or we are doomed!What if we get him tomorrow....too late?
And so it begins...both Rodgers and Advocaat have moved on.
Liverpool will be fishing in the market for Ancelotti or Klopp.
Sunderland will be fishing in the Fat Sam market.
Villa make the move for Rodgers or Moyes now please.
we as a top club(on a par with liverpool and a lot better than sunderland) are fuckin about again
lets get this sorted sooner rather than later
I laughed too.we as a top club(on a par with liverpool and a lot better than sunderland) are fuckin about again
lets get this sorted sooner rather than later
Do you really, honestly believe that?
It is a good job I am not in Tom Fox' position as I would be sounding Rodgers out tonight for the Villa job, and if he showed any willing I would be getting him in.
Did he and Paddy Reilly get on?
we as a top club(on a par with liverpool and a lot better than sunderland) are fuckin about again
lets get this sorted sooner rather than later
Do you really, honestly believe that?
It is a good job I am not in Tom Fox' position as I would be sounding Rodgers out tonight for the Villa job, and if he showed any willing I would be getting him in.
Did he and Paddy Reilly get on?
What I do know is that we could really do without sacking another manager.We could if he's completely inept. I'm all for sticking with a manager, but how about when we do stick with one, let's make it one who is vaguely competent rather than one who never should have been even considered to be Villa manager. And who should really be managing a call-centre, or perhaps a small provincial supermarket.
Of course we're a top club (historically).Yes before WWI
It is a good job I am not in Tom Fox' position as I would be sounding Rodgers out tonight for the Villa job, and if he showed any willing I would be getting him in.
Did he and Paddy Reilly get on?
I'm not sure, Rodgers did nearly win them the title in fairness but on the other side of the coin, he's brought some terrible players and spent a shit load of money. Besides, no-one suggested him while he was in work.
I will argue until I am blue in the face against anyone who suggests we aren't a big club but to say we are on a par with Liverpool is perhaps a slight exaggeration.Agree, liverpool are much bigger than us if we're honest.
I will argue until I am blue in the face against anyone who suggests we aren't a big club but to say we are on a par with Liverpool is perhaps a slight exaggeration.
We are a big club but so are Leeds in my book.
It's the sort of comment I would expect from a Blose or a boggie but not a Villa fan. Just to remind you of League cup wins and championship in 81 and the ....Of course we're a top club (historically).Yes before WWI
It is a good job I am not in Tom Fox' position as I would be sounding Rodgers out tonight for the Villa job, and if he showed any willing I would be getting him in.
Did he and Paddy Reilly get on?
I'm not sure, Rodgers did nearly win them the title in fairness but on the other side of the coin, he's brought some terrible players and spent a shit load of money. Besides, no-one suggested him while he was in work.
A hand full of trophies in 100 yrs , we really ain't as big as we make out , we're a mid table side & have been for yrsIt's the sort of comment I would expect from a Blose or a boggie but not a Villa fan. Just to remind you of League cup wins and championship in 81 and the ....Of course we're a top club (historically).Yes before WWI
It is a good job I am not in Tom Fox' position as I would be sounding Rodgers out tonight for the Villa job, and if he showed any willing I would be getting him in.
Did he and Paddy Reilly get on?
I'm not sure, Rodgers did nearly win them the title in fairness but on the other side of the coin, he's brought some terrible players and spent a shit load of money. Besides, no-one suggested him while he was in work.
As TV says, Rodgers doesn't have much input on the players that Liverpool sign. He has a say, but not much more than that.
On the bright side, the bloke who helped him bring in quite a lot of those terrible players is now in charge of our transfers. So silver linings and all that.
Forest are so big they've spent half their history out the top flight. Leeds are such a massive club they've reached one cup final outside of the Revie era, and we all know how that went for them. Those kind of clubs aren't fit to be in the same sentence as Aston Villa.
sunderland didn't fk about but we do. why?A hand full of trophies in 100 yrs , we really ain't as big as we make out , we're a mid table side & have been for yrsIt's the sort of comment I would expect from a Blose or a boggie but not a Villa fan. Just to remind you of League cup wins and championship in 81 and the ....Of course we're a top club (historically).Yes before WWI
Forest are so big they've spent half their history out the top flight. Leeds are such a massive club they've reached one cup final outside of the Revie era, and we all know how that went for them. Those kind of clubs aren't fit to be in the same sentence as Aston Villa.
Leeds have spent longer outside the top flight than in it.
We are second, behind Everton.
Sunderland didn't sack their manager, he resigned.sunderland didn't fk about but we do. why?A hand full of trophies in 100 yrs , we really ain't as big as we make out , we're a mid table side & have been for yrsIt's the sort of comment I would expect from a Blose or a boggie but not a Villa fan. Just to remind you of League cup wins and championship in 81 and the ....Of course we're a top club (historically).Yes before WWI
Absolutely - in spite of our rubbish start, I'm still very positive about the summer business. For most of which I'm still pretty certain Sherwood played a supporting rather than a starring role.It is a good job I am not in Tom Fox' position as I would be sounding Rodgers out tonight for the Villa job, and if he showed any willing I would be getting him in.
Did he and Paddy Reilly get on?
I'm not sure, Rodgers did nearly win them the title in fairness but on the other side of the coin, he's brought some terrible players and spent a shit load of money. Besides, no-one suggested him while he was in work.
As TV says, Rodgers doesn't have much input on the players that Liverpool sign. He has a say, but not much more than that.
On the bright side, the bloke who helped him bring in quite a lot of those terrible players is now in charge of our transfers. So silver linings and all that.
As much of a cock as Sherwood is making of himself he's contributed to some very good players now being at the club. Much as you suggest is also down to Paddy.
did he not jump before he was pushedSunderland didn't sack their manager, he resigned.sunderland didn't fk about but we do. why?A hand full of trophies in 100 yrs , we really ain't as big as we make out , we're a mid table side & have been for yrsIt's the sort of comment I would expect from a Blose or a boggie but not a Villa fan. Just to remind you of League cup wins and championship in 81 and the ....Of course we're a top club (historically).Yes before WWI
he seems to have a little dignity, unlike some of them who stick around till the bitter end with their heads up their arses in total denial just so they can get paid up, apparently, according to Sunderland sources, no financial agreement has been made - fair play Advocaat.Sunderland didn't sack their manager, he resigned.sunderland didn't fk about but we do. why?A hand full of trophies in 100 yrs , we really ain't as big as we make out , we're a mid table side & have been for yrsIt's the sort of comment I would expect from a Blose or a boggie but not a Villa fan. Just to remind you of League cup wins and championship in 81 and the ....Of course we're a top club (historically).Yes before WWI
did he not jump before he was pushedSunderland didn't sack their manager, he resigned.sunderland didn't fk about but we do. why?A hand full of trophies in 100 yrs , we really ain't as big as we make out , we're a mid table side & have been for yrsIt's the sort of comment I would expect from a Blose or a boggie but not a Villa fan. Just to remind you of League cup wins and championship in 81 and the ....Of course we're a top club (historically).Yes before WWI
Forest are so big they've spent half their history out the top flight. Leeds are such a massive club they've reached one cup final outside of the Revie era, and we all know how that went for them. Those kind of clubs aren't fit to be in the same sentence as Aston Villa.
Leeds have spent longer outside the top flight than in it.
We are second, behind Everton.
Leeds have had 50 seasons in the top flight, 38 out of it. Take out the Revie inspired decade and they've got one title and nothing else. Until Revie arrived they'd finished in the top 10 five times and averaged 30K twice (32K and 30,200). If ever a club was built on one man, it's Leeds.
We also aren't as shit as we, and others, make out. In the last 20 years we've had 4 cup finals, numerous other semi-finals, European campaigns etc, outside of the money clubs, who can match that?Without checking I would guess we've also spent the majority of the last 20yrs outside the top 10?
We also aren't as shit as we, and others, make out. In the last 20 years we've had 4 cup finals, numerous other semi-finals, European campaigns etc, outside of the money clubs, who can match that?Without checking I would guess we've also spent the majority of the last 20yrs outside the top 10?
A hand full of trophies in 100 yrs , we really ain't as big as we make out , we're a mid table side & have been for yrsIt's the sort of comment I would expect from a Blose or a boggie but not a Villa fan. Just to remind you of League cup wins and championship in 81 and the ....Of course we're a top club (historically).Yes before WWI
7 clubs can match or better it , that makes us 8th Mid table as I said .
As for cup finals & semi finals .... Great for a day out , but not so good when you lose them .
Sometimes a manager is a perfect fit for a club - look at Pardew now compared to everywhere else.and your perfect manager is?
Sometimes a manager is a perfect fit for a club - look at Pardew now compared to everywhere else.and your perfect manager is?
Sometimes a manager is a perfect fit for a club - look at Pardew now compared to everywhere else.and your perfect manager is?
No idea. Very often you don't know you've got him until he's there; Ron Saunders was probably the second-most unpopular appointment in our history.
Sometimes a manager is a perfect fit for a club - look at Pardew now compared to everywhere else.and your perfect manager is?
No idea. Very often you don't know you've got him until he's there; Ron Saunders was probably the second-most unpopular appointment in our history.
Really?
Success at Norwich, failure at Man City but far better prospect than Vic Crowe
Wasn't that because most wanted Clough? I was 4 at the time so am purely going by what i've read and heard.
Sometimes a manager is a perfect fit for a club - look at Pardew now compared to everywhere else.and your perfect manager is?
No idea. Very often you don't know you've got him until he's there; Ron Saunders was probably the second-most unpopular appointment in our history.
Really?
Success at Norwich, failure at Man City but far better prospect than Vic Crowe
And wanted by something like 2% of supporters at the time.
Gordon Jago?
Gordon Jago?
Gordon Jago?
When it comes to showing my football knowledge credentials, may I own up to being one of the 98% that didn't want Ron Saunders as Villa manager. Neither did I think Peter Withe was a good signing at the time he signed. Brilliant me.
Yep7 clubs can match or better it , that makes us 8th Mid table as I said .
As for cup finals & semi finals .... Great for a day out , but not so good when you lose them .
So everyone is midtable apart from Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City.... you're talking out of your arse, we've also finished top 10 twice as often as out of it, but you ignored that part too. Cup Finals, yeah who cares.....
Yep
We very very rarely finish in top 6, finished above 6th only once in the premier league . Top table clubs finish at top end of the table season after season after season. We don't & haven't for yrs . Certainly not in my life time .
When it comes to showing my football knowledge credentials, may I own up to being one of the 98% that didn't want Ron Saunders as Villa manager. Neither did I think Peter Withe was a good signing at the time he signed. Brilliant me.
Yep
We very very rarely finish in top 6, finished above 6th only once in the premier league . Top table clubs finish at top end of the table season after season after season. We don't & haven't for yrs . Certainly not in my life time .
Eh?
7 clubs can match or better it , that makes us 8th Mid table as I said .
As for cup finals & semi finals .... Great for a day out , but not so good when you lose them .
Yep
We very very rarely finish in top 6, finished above 6th only once in the premier league . Top table clubs finish at top end of the table season after season after season. We don't & haven't for yrs . Certainly not in my life time .
So everyone is midtable apart from Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City.... you're talking out of your arse, we've also finished top 10 twice as often as out of it, but you ignored that part too. Cup Finals, yeah who cares.....
We've finished 2, 4th and 5th in the PL. Or do two of them not count like finals and semi-finals don't? ;)
what about sid? can he not get a little more involved in 1st team affairsAs much of a villa legend sid is, there hasn't really been much evidence of him being a good first team coach or assistant.
and let dim know what its all about
We've finished 2, 4th and 5th in the PL. Or do two of them not count like finals and semi-finals don't? ;)
I genuinely don't remember the 4th & 5th , my mistake ...lol
So we've finished top 4 twice in 20odd yrs .
& no finals count for nothing if you lose ... Was you happy with our 4-0 defeat to Arsenal
We've finished 2, 4th and 5th in the PL. Or do two of them not count like finals and semi-finals don't? ;)
I genuinely don't remember the 4th & 5th , my mistake ...lol
So we've finished top 4 twice in 20odd yrs .
& no finals count for nothing if you lose ... Was you happy with our 4-0 defeat to Arsenal
I have met sid and he is very quiet but the odd "word in your ear" wouldn't go amisswhat about sid? can he not get a little more involved in 1st team affairsAs much of a villa legend sid is, there hasn't really been much evidence of him being a good first team coach or assistant.
and let dim know what its all about
To be honest I wouldnt put Newcastle in top 15 clubs .We've finished 2, 4th and 5th in the PL. Or do two of them not count like finals and semi-finals don't? ;)
I genuinely don't remember the 4th & 5th , my mistake ...lol
So we've finished top 4 twice in 20odd yrs .
& no finals count for nothing if you lose ... Was you happy with our 4-0 defeat to Arsenal
I'd prefer to be reaching finals than getting knocked out in round 3. I hated that final, doesn't change that we reach more of them than the likes of Everton, Newcastle, and the same kind of rate of reaching finals and semis as Spurs.
how do you know what people think?To be honest I wouldnt put Newcastle in top 15 clubs .We've finished 2, 4th and 5th in the PL. Or do two of them not count like finals and semi-finals don't? ;)
I genuinely don't remember the 4th & 5th , my mistake ...lol
So we've finished top 4 twice in 20odd yrs .
& no finals count for nothing if you lose ... Was you happy with our 4-0 defeat to Arsenal
I'd prefer to be reaching finals than getting knocked out in round 3. I hated that final, doesn't change that we reach more of them than the likes of Everton, Newcastle, and the same kind of rate of reaching finals and semis as Spurs.
I'm not saying were shit tin pot club but we ain't the club many seem to think we are .
How was it a disgrace?
I have magic powershow do you know what people think?To be honest I wouldnt put Newcastle in top 15 clubs .We've finished 2, 4th and 5th in the PL. Or do two of them not count like finals and semi-finals don't? ;)
I genuinely don't remember the 4th & 5th , my mistake ...lol
So we've finished top 4 twice in 20odd yrs .
& no finals count for nothing if you lose ... Was you happy with our 4-0 defeat to Arsenal
I'd prefer to be reaching finals than getting knocked out in round 3. I hated that final, doesn't change that we reach more of them than the likes of Everton, Newcastle, and the same kind of rate of reaching finals and semis as Spurs.
I'm not saying were shit tin pot club but we ain't the club many seem to think we are .
IIRC even Ferguson said his dismissal at Blackburn was ridiculous.
Found it here thanks to a quick Google http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9284325.stm
We average reaching at least a semi ever other year. Using 95/96 as the start point as that covers 20 seasons including this one, 4 finals and 5 semis. That the only clubs that can match that over the same time period are Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd says a lot.Are you saying 9 semi's in 20 years ?
We average reaching at least a semi ever other year. Using 95/96 as the start point as that covers 20 seasons including this one, 4 finals and 5 semis. That the only clubs that can match that over the same time period are Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd says a lot.
I am. Won 4 lost 5.Have Ci£y not surpassed that amount
I am. Won 4 lost 5.Have Ci£y not surpassed that amount
1996 LC (W) FAC SF
2000 LC SF FAC Final
2004 LC SF
2010 LC Final FAC SF
2013 LC SF
2015 FAC Final
1996 LC (W) FAC SF
2000 LC SF FAC Final
2004 LC SF
2010 LC Final FAC SF
2013 LC SF
2015 FAC Final
That's 6 in 20 years then, closer to 1 in 3.
1996 LC (W) FAC SF
2000 LC SF FAC Final
2004 LC SF
2010 LC Final FAC SF
2013 LC SF
2015 FAC Final
That's 6 in 20 years then, closer to 1 in 3. Unfortunately the one we won is the one longest ago and then of those semi's or finals we've lost every single one since. Like everyone else, I'm wondering how long before this shit ends.
Why don't cups count in your world? If anyone can do it, why are they the only clubs that can match us?
And it's 9th.
1996 LC (W) FAC SF
2000 LC SF FAC Final
2004 LC SF
2010 LC Final FAC SF
2013 LC SF
2015 FAC Final
I genuinely think that the team that we have would be made to work under .....Brian Little. I honestly think that he jumped too early and has been treading water ever since. Once he had the Villa job he never really had his heart in any other job. Brian Little for me.I was going to say the same
I genuinely think that the team that we have would be made to work under .....Brian Little. I honestly think that he jumped too early and has been treading water ever since. Once he had the Villa job he never really had his heart in any other job. Brian Little for me.Think he's doing stuff for Jersey FA and Eire FA aswell as some radio work.
1996 LC (W) FAC SF
2000 LC SF FAC Final
2004 LC SF
2010 LC Final FAC SF
2013 LC SF
2015 FAC Final
Considering we've managed that under the leadership of Doug and Randy, I'm impressed. Just imagine what we'd be like if there was a financial level playing field and plastic clubs weren't allowed to buy trophies. Or to flip it, just imagine how we'd do if we had competent, ambitious people running the club. If there was a level playing field we would more than hold our own against any club.
1996 LC (W) FAC SF
2000 LC SF FAC Final
2004 LC SF
2010 LC Final FAC SF
2013 LC SF
2015 FAC Final
Considering we've managed that under the leadership of Doug and Randy, I'm impressed. Just imagine what we'd be like if there was a financial level playing field and plastic clubs weren't allowed to buy trophies. Or to flip it, just imagine how we'd do if we had competent, ambitious people running the club. If there was a level playing field we would more than hold our own against any club.
And I'm sure every other club could say the same.
Why don't cups count in your world? If anyone can do it, why are they the only clubs that can match us?
And it's 9th.
Cups do count but again they're a rarity rather than the norm as with top table clubs .
Well I wouldn't call averaging at least a semi final every 3 years a rarity. In fact with our strike rate, you're kind of arguing against yourself.Why don't cups count in your world? If anyone can do it, why are they the only clubs that can match us?
And it's 9th.
Cups do count but again they're a rarity rather than the norm as with top table clubs .
Considering we've managed that under the leadership of Doug and Randy, I'm impressed. Just imagine what we'd be like if there was a financial level playing field and plastic clubs weren't allowed to buy trophies.
When it comes to showing my football knowledge credentials, may I own up to being one of the 98% that didn't want Ron Saunders as Villa manager. Neither did I think Peter Withe was a good signing at the time he signed. Brilliant me.
When it comes to showing my football knowledge credentials, may I own up to being one of the 98% that didn't want Ron Saunders as Villa manager. Neither did I think Peter Withe was a good signing at the time he signed. Brilliant me.
We must have shared a brain at the time Dave, as I felt the same on both counts.
It's every other year! 9 times we've reached at least the semi-final of a cup competition in the last 20 years.
BR sacked. Probably our next boss. I remember just before we took on Lambert that the 3 blokes on the list for the job was BR, Lambert and OGS. I wanted BR then OGS and Lambert last. Because I thought BR talked a good game on interviews on TV. Not so sure now. Would take a gamble on the blues manager.
Not sure. If any of us heard him talk before the derby match then you would know he is a level headed decent bloke.BR sacked. Probably our next boss. I remember just before we took on Lambert that the 3 blokes on the list for the job was BR, Lambert and OGS. I wanted BR then OGS and Lambert last. Because I thought BR talked a good game on interviews on TV. Not so sure now. Would take a gamble on the blues manager.
The problem with Rowett would be that we'd only need to concede a corner and he'd be all the Blue bastards under the sun.
BR sacked. Probably our next boss. I remember just before we took on Lambert that the 3 blokes on the list for the job was BR, Lambert and OGS. I wanted BR then OGS and Lambert last. Because I thought BR talked a good game on interviews on TV. Not so sure now. Would take a gamble on the blues manager.
The problem with Rowett would be that we'd only need to concede a corner and he'd be all the Blue bastards under the sun.
??Why?BR sacked. Probably our next boss. I remember just before we took on Lambert that the 3 blokes on the list for the job was BR, Lambert and OGS. I wanted BR then OGS and Lambert last. Because I thought BR talked a good game on interviews on TV. Not so sure now. Would take a gamble on the blues manager.
The problem with Rowett would be that we'd only need to concede a corner and he'd be all the Blue bastards under the sun.
I'd love to see Sir Brian back Peter, but it's nearly 20 since he left, and football has moved on I'm afraid. I'd hate to sully his memory by him coming back and being pants, like Graham Taylor was.
Sherwood talking about "Tim Sherwood" again in his post match interviews. He has completely lost the plot at the moment.
Sherwood talking about "Tim Sherwood" again in his post match interviews. He has completely lost the plot at the moment.
Did he?
I can't defend that.
Hope the club doctor is monitoring him.Sherwood talking about "Tim Sherwood" again in his post match interviews. He has completely lost the plot at the moment.
Did he?
I can't defend that.
I'd have Rogers in a heartbeat, but perhaps Huw Jenkins or a Chief Exec of similar calibre should be a far bigger priority.
How you can put O'Neill in the same breath as McDull, Lambert and Timbo is beyond me. He had his foibles but for christsakes!
I'd have Rogers in a heartbeat, but perhaps Huw Jenkins or a Chief Exec of similar calibre should be a far bigger priority.
Isn't Fox our Huw Jenkins? Neither are 'football' people so no reason why Fox could not replicate what Jenkins has done.
I'd love to see Sir Brian back Peter, but it's nearly 20 since he left, and football has moved on I'm afraid. I'd hate to sully his memory by him coming back and being pants, like Graham Taylor was.
SGT had a footballing philosophy that was very much an 80s throwback whereas Brian Little played a brand of football that is still of vogue today. I think he'd definitely fit.
How you can put O'Neill in the same breath as McDull, Lambert and Timbo is beyond me. He had his foibles but for christsakes!
How you can put O'Neill in the same breath as McDull, Lambert and Timbo is beyond me. He had his foibles but for christsakes!By foibles, do you mean spending a fortune on mostly mediocre players on contracts that made it impossible to give them away so we ended up paying the likes of Habib Beye £40-50K per week for 4 years for the "privilege" of turning up at Bodymore Heath for 20 hours per week that precipitated the financial armageddon we've been living with for the past 5 years?
The size of our club and the expectations it brings could be part of the problem for most managers. Everyone knows the potential of the club but to an inexperienced manager it could quickly overwhelm them. We ned someone with the experience of Houllier someone who has had success and won't be overawed. Who fits that bill?Could we cheekily lure Ferguson out of retirement on a six month contract? Unlikely, but you know the people running Villa are too unimaginative to try. Seriously though, not being overawed is a good point and despite the dross he'd serve up Allardyce does fit that bill.
I would love to see Sir Brian back with say a Martin Laursen as under study.I'd love to see Sir Brian back Peter, but it's nearly 20 since he left, and football has moved on I'm afraid. I'd hate to sully his memory by him coming back and being pants, like Graham Taylor was.
SGT had a footballing philosophy that was very much an 80s throwback whereas Brian Little played a brand of football that is still of vogue today. I think he'd definitely fit.
Yep, you're right actually. That's me sold!
Considering we've managed that under the leadership of Doug and Randy, I'm impressed. Just imagine what we'd be like if there was a financial level playing field and plastic clubs weren't allowed to buy trophies.
I daresay that there were plenty of clubs complaining about the lack of a financial level playing field when we were able to spend thirty million quid two summers in a row buying two new defences, or even when we were able to throw £24m at a striker to make sure we weren't relegated.
I forget who did go down that summer, but I bet one or two or them would might have grumbled that they might have stayed up had they been able to sign one of the best strikers in the league that January.
I'd love to see Sir Brian back Peter, but it's nearly 20 since he left, and football has moved on I'm afraid. I'd hate to sully his memory by him coming back and being pants, like Graham Taylor was.
He's fucking useless, but my biggest fear is who next?
We've appointed some utter donkeys who have overseen such diabolically poor football for what will be six seasons now, that I am not sure where we go next.
It's clear though that the manager has not go the first fucking clue and doesn't deserve any more opportunities.
I would be stunned if there are not some break clauses in there for such a novice manager if there is not a bottom 3 and you get the season paid up type clause it would be very scary. I am sure Lambert had that clause.
I'd have Rogers in a heartbeat, but perhaps Huw Jenkins or a Chief Exec of similar calibre should be a far bigger priority.
Isn't Fox our Huw Jenkins? Neither are 'football' people so no reason why Fox could not replicate what Jenkins has done.
Didn't Jenkins play football for Swansea?
Moyes would be really uninspiring. All the more so because it feels like exactly the appointment we'll make when the time comes.
There aren't even games where we've been unlucky to lose. You could argue we deserved to beat Sunderland but every defeat has been merited and we could've been knocked out of the League Cup by Small Heath or Notts County.
A win seems like a distant dream, let alone a run of three of four good results in a row we need to get our season going.
Was Graham Turner as bad as Sherwood?
He is the worst manager I can remember in charge of our club and I'm struggling to think of a worse one to be honest who has managed in the top division.
Di Canio, Alan Perrin (Portsmouth), must be a few others
I'm not sure of any industry that promotes someone with zero experience and put them in charge of spending 50m over a summer.
timmy would be better suited to hanging around with Jeff Stelling on sky sports saturday with Merse, Charlie Nicholas and the boys
We average reaching at least a semi ever other year. Using 95/96 as the start point as that covers 20 seasons including this one, 4 finals and 5 semis. That the only clubs that can match that over the same time period are Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd says a lot.
& what's our average premier finish over the same time ?
We have good players - I firmly believe that this squad is capable of a mid table finish, however the manager simply isn't good enough. We need to make our move now, before it's too late and get someone in who can organise this team and get them playing to their strengths. If we don't, you can bet that Sunderland/Newcastle will, and we'll end up rock bottom and doomed before we even get to January - then no-one will want to come.
Time for our much-feted DOF to earn his corn.
We average reaching at least a semi ever other year. Using 95/96 as the start point as that covers 20 seasons including this one, 4 finals and 5 semis. That the only clubs that can match that over the same time period are Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd says a lot.
& what's our average premier finish over the same time ?
The average finishes of respect clubs during the premier league era: removing Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd and Chelsea as they've been undoubtedly the top 4 over this time
Man City Average position 9.6, finals or semi's 5, Cup Wins 2
Everton Average position 10.0, finals or semi's 3, Cup Wins 1
Newcatle Average position 9.2, finals or semi's 3, Cup Wins 0
Tottenham Average position 8.4, finals or semi's 11, Cup wins 2
Aston Villa, Average position 9.6, finals or semi's 10, Cup wins 2
I'd say that shows we stack up pretty well against anyone but the 4 I mentioned. Unless you'd like to narrow it down to the last 10 years or something just to fit your argument? In that case we fall behind Man City, Everton and Spurs to 8th, which you claim as midtable but I'd say is challenging for Europe ;)
Well Brendan Rogers is now on the market. Despite his difficulties in the last 12 months at Liverpool, I think he is a good manager who would certainly get much more out the squad we now have. If he thought he had a challenge there, he'd certainly find one at Villa Park.
We average reaching at least a semi ever other year. Using 95/96 as the start point as that covers 20 seasons including this one, 4 finals and 5 semis. That the only clubs that can match that over the same time period are Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd says a lot.
& what's our average premier finish over the same time ?
The average finishes of respect clubs during the premier league era: removing Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd and Chelsea as they've been undoubtedly the top 4 over this time
Man City Average position 9.6, finals or semi's 5, Cup Wins 2
Everton Average position 10.0, finals or semi's 3, Cup Wins 1
Newcatle Average position 9.2, finals or semi's 3, Cup Wins 0
Tottenham Average position 8.4, finals or semi's 11, Cup wins 2
Aston Villa, Average position 9.6, finals or semi's 10, Cup wins 2
I'd say that shows we stack up pretty well against anyone but the 4 I mentioned. Unless you'd like to narrow it down to the last 10 years or something just to fit your argument? In that case we fall behind Man City, Everton and Spurs to 8th, which you claim as midtable but I'd say is challenging for Europe ;)
I think he will likely get until the Watford game, which I believe is the one after Everton away?
That would be 14 league games, approaching half of the season. We’d need to take 10 points from Chelsea, Swansea, Spurs, Man City, Everton and Watford to be on our par for the course, with 38 points.
It’s a tough run of fixtures, which could make what should be an easier game against Watford a lot harder if there is a build up of pressure. I would imagine if we are below 14 points by then, that he will be sacked.
I hate it when our managers fail, I genuinely do. I am not interested in what they look like [even you O’Leary, you pug faced oik!], what they sound like, where they’re from or where they’ve been, I am just desperate for one to provide a modicum of stability in our performances and results at a reasonable level.
I’ve not mentioned success, I just want to drive the 86 or so miles back north from B6 with a happy smile at least ten out of the nineteen times a season. That’s not asking for the moon. I don’t care if we’ve even played well either. Just win please.
If Sherwood can spend the next two weeks and work out that Sanchez, Veretout and Gana is our best midfield three, that our defence should play a lot closer together and maybe even sacrifice the space out wide if need be to stay compact, then great. If he could get somebody up top with a bit of pace, guile and more importantly movement, like Ayew for instance, then give it a go. If he could get some slippery git with precision and vision to supply him like Gil or Grealish, then fantastic. If he could get Traore on to use his pace defensively to pin players back, to make the pitch really wide, then maybe, just maybe he will get a result more often that not.
In all honesty, I don’t know if my own assessment is up to much. My head has never been on the block. I just want him to do well, I just don’t think he has it in him. 6 games to save his job.
It's not Tim's fault, that's just a 'false narrative'.
I hate it when our managers fail, I genuinely do. I am not interested in what they look like [even you O’Leary, you pug faced oik!], what they sound like, where they’re from or where they’ve been, I am just desperate for one to provide a modicum of stability in our performances and results at a reasonable level.Yes as this is always bad news based on failure. I would like to think that one day we can sack a Manager for only winning the League and not the European Cup as well but for now sacking is agony.
Agree with all of that Ads. I would only add to those basics Sherwood being told, by himself preferably to cut out once and for all the clever dick sound bites that simply insult the intelligence of the fans who have endured so much.Could not agree more Brian
Agree with all of that Ads. I would only add to those basics Sherwood being told, by himself preferably to cut out once and for all the clever dick sound bites that simply insult the intelligence of the fans who have endured so much.Could not agree more Brian
I'm still in the give him more time camp but he needs to pick a settled side and if possible, stick with it. We've lost 6 games this season and despite that, we're still only 4 points off the team above us. It's not an ideal situation obviously but it's not catastrophic. My only worry is though that the two week break might do Chelsea more good than us.What could totally bugger us up is our internationals coming back injured (again)
Me too (edit: in response to Clampy). I said before the Stoke game give him 6 more; well, he's had one (one of the easier ones too), and didn't advance his cause in tactics, performance or results terms.
Three things still making me think we should give him time:
- firstly he's earned a bit of slack given last season's turnaround
- secondly, I think we should give him a fair amount of time to find a settled line up with all the new faces (signs of progress on this one aren't great)
- thirdly, most importantly, I don't subscribe to the view that our squad is inherently much better than the results we're getting. We have been shite for several years, particularly last year, and lost our 2-3 best players even from that shower. It might well be the case that Sherwood is getting a fair return from the players at his disposal (which is perhaps the most worrying thought).
How you can in all honesty turn round and say the players aren't fit enough for the style of play he is trying to implement whilst apparently trying random formations and selections each week just points to desperation.That's exactly it, he's full of shit unfortunately, as you say he's saying they're not fit enough to play the style he wants (which in itself is his responsibility to get them fit) but then he clearly doesn't know what style he wants to play as proven by the different formations in each game, he's making this shit up as he goes along, I refuse to believe that Fox can't see that.
Me too (edit: in response to Clampy). I said before the Stoke game give him 6 more; well, he's had one (one of the easier ones too), and didn't advance his cause in tactics, performance or results terms.
Three things still making me think we should give him time:
- firstly he's earned a bit of slack given last season's turnaround
- secondly, I think we should give him a fair amount of time to find a settled line up with all the new faces (signs of progress on this one aren't great)
- thirdly, most importantly, I don't subscribe to the view that our squad is inherently much better than the results we're getting. We have been shite for several years, particularly last year, and lost our 2-3 best players even from that shower. It might well be the case that Sherwood is getting a fair return from the players at his disposal (which is perhaps the most worrying thought).
I don't think a fair return for £50m worth of players is losing 75% of your matches. Other teams have spent less and done more.
Agree with all of that Ads. I would only add to those basics Sherwood being told, by himself preferably to cut out once and for all the clever dick sound bites that simply insult the intelligence of the fans who have endured so much.Could not agree more Brian
Stick with it for now, but I only see it going one way. However he's earned the opportunity to have a go at it, and the money he's spent he deserves more than 7 games.
It's shite though. It really is shite.
His biggest mistake has been not buying a proven goal scorer.
So, Brendan Rodgers anyone? *Ducks into the trench*
So, Brendan Rodgers anyone? *Ducks into the trench*
We already have a manager who cannot organise a defence, why would we replace like for like?
My one problem is reading that people still want to give TS another "x" number of games. As I said in an earlier post, I only had a season ticket because I loved his enthusiasm and straight forward talking. He's now ditched both those things so, I have gone from a TS worshiper to "get rid of him now!!" camp. Sorry, but I'm more interested in the future of our great club than I am to wait to see IF he can turn it around.
Like ADS I played football and managed teams for a long time and, believe me, he has had long enough. We don't want a last minute, "see if we can get out of the shit at the last minute" again.
Hi Chris,I too can't see the point in keeping him on, I feel sure we aren't about to start winning games so by delaying the inevitable we are just making it harder for the next guy through the door. It's the awful tactical decisions that have drained my confidence. Weird substitutions and formations suggest he isn't up to it. I just could not believe the starting eleven and formation on Saturday, goodness knows what the players make of it.
I never mind different points of view, it's what football is all about and, my humble offering is my point of view. However, I have seen enough that, in my opinion, we will be virtually relegated if there is no change of manager to one that has had at least some modicum of success at another PL club. If they decide to keep TS and, he get's us out of this mess, I will be the first to come back on this board and eat humble pie!!
I don't care who does it for our great club and, just don't want the board to be panicked at the last minute with another poor managerial appointment.
Hope that clarifies.
Bookies have us second favourites for the drop.
His biggest mistake has been not buying a proven goal scorer.
I agree he should have, but would it make a difference?
Gestede's scoring rate is fine. Goals ain't our problem, really. We've scored 2 goals in four games this season and not won any of them (including Notts County).
Granted we've lost 1-0 at home three times so I can see where you're coming from. We're jsut a mess.
Our best players, for me are: Grealish, Gil, Amavi and Richards. Richards is never a centre half, Amavi can't defend and the other two can't get in the side.
So, Brendan Rodgers anyone? *Ducks into the trench*
We already have a manager who cannot organise a defence, why would we replace like for like?
He has a 40%+ win ratio in the Premiership overall.
Remember 40%??
So maybe he can get us to I dunno 30% as a starter. 10 wins from here should keep us up.
I normally err on the side of caution. My natural inclination is to give them time (see years worth of comments re Houllier, TSM1 and TSM2.
I can't do it this time. There are no signs of light at the end of the tunnel.
Klopp>Rodgers>Dyche>Allardyce>Dusty Bin>Sherwood.
Klopp>Rodgers>Dyche>Allardyce>Dusty Bin>Sherwood.
Hi Chris,
I never mind different points of view, it's what football is all about and, my humble offering is my point of view. However, I have seen enough that, in my opinion, we will be virtually relegated if there is no change of manager to one that has had at least some modicum of success at another PL club. If they decide to keep TS and, he get's us out of this mess, I will be the first to come back on this board and eat humble pie!!
I don't care who does it for our great club and, just don't want the board to be panicked at the last minute with another poor managerial appointment.
Hope that clarifies.
I really don't think Sherwood will get sacked. Then again, I thought Lambert would 'get away with it'.He will if he keeps losing game after game , they'll have no choice unless it's part of the plan to get relegated
Lambert got 18 months longer than he should have been allowed, I expect Dim Sherwood to get the same amount of slack from our absent owner.Fox and the Sporting director ( can't remember his name) will make the decision to sack him ,not Lerner.
is there talk of a conspiracy there?championship club going cheap?some American gets a premiership clubI really don't think Sherwood will get sacked. Then again, I thought Lambert would 'get away with it'.He will if he keeps losing game after game , they'll have no choice unless it's part of the plan to get relegated
He quite clearly doesn't like Sanchez. He hardly used him last year when we had Cleverley, and for some unfathomable reason he seems to think that Ashley "the most average footballer of all time" Westwood is the answer.
The match against Chelsea is a real sack race. The one that loses gets the boot. That said I reckon one or both will be sacked before then.
What about Michael Laudrup?? According to Wiki he is currently unemployed...for the last few seasons I've always been somewhat confident that we would stay up based on the fact that when I looked at the league table I could always pick 3 worse teams than us...right now, I can only see 2.Welcome SFvillan and good shout about Laudrup however it has to be Rodgers.
With all due respect Risso that's just rot. We're equally as crap on the right as we are on the left and pathetic through the middle for good measure. As for discernible plans, I have one. Why not emulate Sunderland fans' supply of garlands to Mrs Advocaat by festooning Sherwood's missus with foliage and hey presto, he'll be offski within a matter of weeks. Or perhaps that's too long to wait?He quite clearly doesn't like Sanchez. He hardly used him last year when we had Cleverley, and for some unfathomable reason he seems to think that Ashley "the most average footballer of all time" Westwood is the answer.The whole side is completely unbalanced with no discernible plan.
Randy and Roman should do a swap manager deal ;)Oh yes like the millionaire in an ordinary home deal?
Swansea at home is this year's Bolton.Indeed , an impressive 6 months ahead of schedule .
I normally err on the side of caution. My natural inclination is to give them time (see years worth of comments re Houllier, TSM1 and TSM2.
I can't do it this time. There are no signs of light at the end of the tunnel.
I can take them looking terrible to start and gradually improving. I can't take us getting progressively worse and that is where we are currently.
With each passing game we get worse. Whether that be in the starting 11 or conviction in attack. If there were signs of a turnaround just round the corner I would back him. But there aren't.
Even when you look at a game and take some positives from it, he doesn't use those to his advantage to find the winning formula. He bins them in the hope of completely changing what went wrong.
He is out of his depth and, if we give him another month, are giving ourselves a mountain to climb to get out of it.
To be like Sugar with an Apprentice sacking:
"Tim, I wanted it to work. I really did. But, as the process has gone on, it is clear this is just too much for you. Thanks for keeping us up and I will watch your career in future with interest. But it is not your time. With regret, Tim, You're Fired".
On the BBC interview, when asked about the Stoke goal, he just sort of shook his body and at once looked pissed off/clueless/arrogant/out of his depth. He is, as Roy Keane might say, a bluffer.
On the BBC interview, when asked about the Stoke goal, he just sort of shook his body and at once looked pissed off/clueless/arrogant/out of his depth. He is, as Roy Keane might say, a bluffer.
It's arrogance and it winds me up. He acts like Mourinho but he hasn't earned the right to be so conceited. If he showed a bit more humility then the fans may a bit more patient than perhaps we are. When he's won leagues/cups and proved himself capable, he can act how he likes (to a degree), but right now he looks to all the world like a bullshitter who's being found out.
So...it seems Tim Sherwood doesn't know Tim Sherwoods best team so what would we all go with?
I was in favour of wing backs but Saturday reminded me how dreadfully negative a formation it is when the inevitable happens and 3 becomes 5 at the back with lots of marking of fresh air.
Think we have to concentrate on 4-2-3-1 now and for a manager & backroom staff packed with good quality centre mids it is absolutely essential that the 2 in front of back 4 are strong, fit & capable of playing the role...novelty of tracking runners :-)
Guzan
Hutton Richards Clark Amavi
Sanchez Gana
Veretout Traore Ayew
Gestede
Subs; Bunn, Okore, Lescott, Gardner, Gil, Greaish, Gabby
Guzan needs genuine competition, not sure Bunn was bought to play & it shows in Guzans performances (though his handling was better on Sat)
Hutton or Bacuna at RB is tomato tomaytoe - can Ilori or Crespo play RB?
Clark over Okore but no Lescott
Westwood get the reward his form deserves....a seat in the stand
Sanchez & Gana holding - Gardner on bench to replace Sanchez after an hour...need him to step up and show that he can play that role after 6 months doing it at Forest.
Traore in the '10' role - direct at goal driving and dribbling through the centre - Grealish or Gil not done enough to justify next chance
Ayew in the attacking three - give him a chance, Gabby there on bench to come on and run the channels (not threaten the goal obv) but he is an attacker who does his work going backwards which is something Sinclair / Grealish / Gil don't do properly.
I normally err on the side of caution. My natural inclination is to give them time (see years worth of comments re Houllier, TSM1 and TSM2.
I can't do it this time. There are no signs of light at the end of the tunnel.
I can take them looking terrible to start and gradually improving. I can't take us getting progressively worse and that is where we are currently.
With each passing game we get worse. Whether that be in the starting 11 or conviction in attack. If there were signs of a turnaround just round the corner I would back him. But there aren't.
Even when you look at a game and take some positives from it, he doesn't use those to his advantage to find the winning formula. He bins them in the hope of completely changing what went wrong.
He is out of his depth and, if we give him another month, are giving ourselves a mountain to climb to get out of it.
To be like Sugar with an Apprentice sacking:
"Tim, I wanted it to work. I really did. But, as the process has gone on, it is clear this is just too much for you. Thanks for keeping us up and I will watch your career in future with interest. But it is not your time. With regret, Tim, You're Fired".
Absolutely spot on. I too back Lambert until almost the end. This chancer needs to go now before it's too later. Wait until Christmas and we'll have gone.
Great use of quote functionality there.
The thing that worries me is that it doesn't just look ineffective or uninspiring, it just looks more than a little bit bat-shit mental.
Sherwood showed a few times at Spurs that he acts somewhat strangely under pressure (not quite as strangely as, say, Nigel Pearson, but pretty strange nonetheless), so I am expecting we'll see a fair bit of this.
It is the mentalness of the whole set up that concerns me.
Let's be totally honest, we all know what is going to happen, don't we? It'll get worse and worse and he'll get the sack, possibly too late to save us.
Let's just cut out the months and months of shitness and bin him now. It has been a mistake.
The Villa job does seem to beat a lot of managers. Tim is already looking a lot older and more haggard than he did last season.
The result against Liverpool in the semi was as much down to Rodger's setting his team up incorrectly as it was a success by Sherwood..fucking up in that semi is on the list of reasons Rodgers got the bullet.
Wouldn't say it was a mistake. He didn't relegate us after all which was the easiest thing to do seeing as when he pitched up we couldn't even score a frigging goal.
Sherwood is making same errors he made at Spurs ..poor tactics and doesn't know his best teamThis is pretty revealing and very good analysis.
Here is a Spurs fan summing up of his flaws ..an seems he has learned nothing
http://www.spursfanatic.com/blog/5-consistent-tactical-errors-tim-sherwood/
“I fret, worry, all of that,” says Sherwood. "But I was having sleepless nights last season when it was going well. It’s part and parcel of the job. I live this job 24-7. I’ve got a family at home and they realise this is me for now.Source (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villas-tim-sherwood-admits-6572468)
“If I was a fan I would 100% be frustrated, but I have to tell them that they should try being a manager and putting it right.
“I had a manager in the opposite dugout (Mark Hughes) who hasn’t had it his own way at every club but he’s come through and stuck to his beliefs. That’s exactly what Tim Sherwood will be doing.”
It was a 2-1 home defeat against Stoke in February when Sherwood made his debut as manager. There’s been an FA Cup final on the way - but in Sherwood’s 21 league games Villa have got only 20 points.
He admits he doesn’t know his best team and some players he signed in a major revamp have yet to come to terms with their new jobs.
“I don’t think it is a lack of effort, everyone gives everything, I just think there’s not a spark,” says Sherwood.
“I keep changing the systems and formations in search of that spark.
“ But the games are ticking off and we need to start winning. I can turn it around. I know I can and I will.
“This is a work in progress, but I don’t expect the fans to be patient.
“I don’t want to insult their intelligence. They’re coming here to have a day out. They bring their families and they want to be entertained and want to win matches.
“It could get worse before it gets better.
“I need to find a team that can go to Stamford Bridge and not be scared, put up a fight and be brave on the pitch.
“I am learning about these players. They train hard and they are good lads but we need some men to come out of the woodwork.”
If he doesn’t find answers soon, Sherwood could be the man who finally takes Villa down after 28 years in the top flight of English football and unbroken Premier League membership....no shit
“I’d rather be in the bottom three now, with eight games gone and a new squad bedding in, than with eight games to go,” says Sherwood.
But then he warns: “We will be in the bottom three with eight games to go if we don’t pick up points now and that’s why the clock is ticking.”
Sherwood is making same errors he made at Spurs ..poor tactics and doesn't know his best teamThis is pretty revealing and very good analysis.
Here is a Spurs fan summing up of his flaws ..an seems he has learned nothing
http://www.spursfanatic.com/blog/5-consistent-tactical-errors-tim-sherwood/
So add to the lack of tactics / structure a bunch of new players and you have the disaster we see now.
Tim Sherwood still searching for Aston Villa’s missing spark after Stoke loss
• Villa manager says ‘I can turn it around. I know I can and I will’
• Mark Hughes praises attitude of Stoke matchwinner Marko Arnautovic
Patience is wearing thin at Villa Park, a grand old ground where the smell of history that always hangs in the air can be both a blessing and a curse, a comfort blanket for supporters who remember the good old days but a constant sharp reminder that a team who once won the European Cup have fallen a long way from the modern elite.
Aston Villa cling to the past because there is nothing to celebrate about the present. “Form is temporary, class is permanent” reads a banner in the Holte end, a message that only hammers home how insipid the current side are.
Tim Sherwood repeatedly said, in the aftermath of the defeat to Stoke City, that Villa are missing a spark, a creative talent who can lift the team. Villa were bland. The atmosphere was flat, a feeling of ennui and weariness deflating the mood, and the ground was far from full. The final whistle lifted the lid on the crowd’s bubbling anger. The boos were long and loud and one fan could be heard bellowing at Sherwood to resign.
This was Villa’s fourth successive league defeat. They are 18th, four points behind West Bromwich Albion, and have earned one point since beating Bournemouth in their first match. They have failed to score in three of their four home games.
“My message to the fans is I absolutely 100% understand their frustration,” Sherwood said. “When your team’s not winning you’re going to be very disappointed and I understand that. I’m the manager and I take responsibility for the performance but it’s the same Tim Sherwood who they were singing my name last season and I’m not working any less hard now. I can turn it around. I know I can and I will.”
Villa sold Christian Benteke and Fabian Delph in the summer and signing 13 new players has confused Sherwood’s thinking. He admits that he does not know his team and here he used a poorly conceived 5-3-2 system that limited his side’s attacking variety, a problem he exacerbated by starting Carles Gil and Jack Grealish on the bench. The experiment lasted until half-time, when Grealish came on for Joleon Lescott.
“I keep changing the system and formations in search of that spark,” Sherwood said, managing to sound both hopeful and forlorn. “We need to find it. We need to find the right formation and the right players to play in it. We’d love to win a game and keep the same team for four or five weeks but unfortunately I haven’t got that luxury.”
Sherwood needs to discover quickly whether his players possess the strength of character required to survive in the Premier League. “I’m learning all the time about them,” he said. “They train hard. They’re all good lads.” He was silent for a moment. “I need some men to come out the woodwork,” he said.
Villa looked callow, easy to bully. Stoke outplayed them for long spells and Marko Arnautovic scored the winner in the 55th minute. Arnautovic had a reputation as a troublemaker in the past but is settled in his third season at Stoke. “He always wants to please,” Mark Hughes, Stoke’s manager, said. “He wants to engage with you, he wants to have a relationship with you, he wants to feel valued.”
Arnautovic’s quality was too much for Villa and Sherwood has to drag himself and his team off the floor before they visit Chelsea on 17 October. “I’ve seen and worked with managers and it’s ups and downs,” Sherwood said. “We’ve got a manager in the opposite dugout today who’s not had it all his own way at every club he’s been at but he’s come through and stuck to his beliefs. That’s exactly what Tim Sherwood will be doing.”
Another one worth a read:QuoteTim Sherwood still searching for Aston Villa’s missing spark after Stoke loss
• Villa manager says ‘I can turn it around. I know I can and I will’
• Mark Hughes praises attitude of Stoke matchwinner Marko Arnautovic
Patience is wearing thin at Villa Park, a grand old ground where the smell of history that always hangs in the air can be both a blessing and a curse, a comfort blanket for supporters who remember the good old days but a constant sharp reminder that a team who once won the European Cup have fallen a long way from the modern elite.
Aston Villa cling to the past because there is nothing to celebrate about the present. “Form is temporary, class is permanent” reads a banner in the Holte end, a message that only hammers home how insipid the current side are.
Tim Sherwood repeatedly said, in the aftermath of the defeat to Stoke City, that Villa are missing a spark, a creative talent who can lift the team. Villa were bland. The atmosphere was flat, a feeling of ennui and weariness deflating the mood, and the ground was far from full. The final whistle lifted the lid on the crowd’s bubbling anger. The boos were long and loud and one fan could be heard bellowing at Sherwood to resign.
This was Villa’s fourth successive league defeat. They are 18th, four points behind West Bromwich Albion, and have earned one point since beating Bournemouth in their first match. They have failed to score in three of their four home games.
“My message to the fans is I absolutely 100% understand their frustration,” Sherwood said. “When your team’s not winning you’re going to be very disappointed and I understand that. I’m the manager and I take responsibility for the performance but it’s the same Tim Sherwood who they were singing my name last season and I’m not working any less hard now. I can turn it around. I know I can and I will.”
Villa sold Christian Benteke and Fabian Delph in the summer and signing 13 new players has confused Sherwood’s thinking. He admits that he does not know his team and here he used a poorly conceived 5-3-2 system that limited his side’s attacking variety, a problem he exacerbated by starting Carles Gil and Jack Grealish on the bench. The experiment lasted until half-time, when Grealish came on for Joleon Lescott.
“I keep changing the system and formations in search of that spark,” Sherwood said, managing to sound both hopeful and forlorn. “We need to find it. We need to find the right formation and the right players to play in it. We’d love to win a game and keep the same team for four or five weeks but unfortunately I haven’t got that luxury.”
Sherwood needs to discover quickly whether his players possess the strength of character required to survive in the Premier League. “I’m learning all the time about them,” he said. “They train hard. They’re all good lads.” He was silent for a moment. “I need some men to come out the woodwork,” he said.
Villa looked callow, easy to bully. Stoke outplayed them for long spells and Marko Arnautovic scored the winner in the 55th minute. Arnautovic had a reputation as a troublemaker in the past but is settled in his third season at Stoke. “He always wants to please,” Mark Hughes, Stoke’s manager, said. “He wants to engage with you, he wants to have a relationship with you, he wants to feel valued.”
Arnautovic’s quality was too much for Villa and Sherwood has to drag himself and his team off the floor before they visit Chelsea on 17 October. “I’ve seen and worked with managers and it’s ups and downs,” Sherwood said. “We’ve got a manager in the opposite dugout today who’s not had it all his own way at every club he’s been at but he’s come through and stuck to his beliefs. That’s exactly what Tim Sherwood will be doing.”
This man needs help. Someone please put him out of his misery. I'm looking at you Mr Lerner and Mr Fox.
I honestly don't think the thought of sacking Sherwood has entered Fox's mind. As for Lerner, I bet he doesn't even know the result from Saturday.
i wish he'd stop speaking in the third person. what a massive prick.
I honestly don't think the thought of sacking Sherwood has entered Fox's mind. As for Lerner, I bet he doesn't even know the result from Saturday.
"Sherwood? Sure, I know Sherwood. Wonderful, mysterious, ancient forest."
Elsewhere, it appears Thick Paul Lambert is back on the market for a job. I'd take Rowett off Small Heath just to watch them quake.
i wish he'd stop speaking in the third person. what a massive prick.
i wish he'd stop speaking in the third person. what a massive prick.
I would - personally I think he has performed close on a miracle with that bunch of knuckleheads.To be fair to him, Rowett spoke very well on Radio WM last night and was pretty non-commital in terms of his long term future so clearly has ambitions of stepping up to the PL. He seems very level headed, calm and not the kind of bloke that would get caught up in his own ego or confused by his own tactics...pretty much the exact opposite of Sherwood in terms of personality.
Plus we could, well most of us, could ensure we nailed that we didn't like McLeish because he was Nose as opposed to because he was shite.
i wish he'd stop speaking in the third person. what a massive prick.
I was about to say he does himself no favours doing that.
His comments about being the man to turn it around, he just sounds like someone who knows their out of the depth and is just waiting to be sacked. He should have been gone sometime between Saturday night and Monday morning and we should be using the international break to find the right person, even if it's only the right person for now.
It's a mistake to have not already acted. They seem to think Sherwood's 'mini pre-season training camp' can do the job but Sherwood's far more at fault than the players. How long before those same players start questioning him and his tactics and he loses the dressing room? Is that what needs to happen before action is taken?
I don't have too much of a problem with what Sherwood came out and said. It might not be what fans want to hear but at least he's being honest. He's tried different things, it hasn't worked and he's admitted it.
I think Chelsea will batter us then that will be it for him.
i wish he'd stop speaking in the third person. what a massive prick.
I was about to say he does himself no favours doing that.
His comments about being the man to turn it around, he just sounds like someone who knows their out of the depth and is just waiting to be sacked. He should have been gone sometime between Saturday night and Monday morning and we should be using the international break to find the right person, even if it's only the right person for now.
It's a mistake to have not already acted. They seem to think Sherwood's 'mini pre-season training camp' can do the job but Sherwood's far more at fault than the players. How long before those same players start questioning him and his tactics and he loses the dressing room? Is that what needs to happen before action is taken?
I think he already has.
The cockyness and general bluster of Soundbite Sherwood was probably just what the players needed in February.
But there seems to be very little beyond that, and it looks like he has been found out. Players generally don't appreciate being hung out to dry when things go wrong either.
Another way of looking at that Sky table is to say the average net amount invested in new players by premier league clubs is £23m.
We had the worst squad of any surviving club last year, and spent £9m net improving it.
I haven't looked club by club but I'd guess that we're also one of the most affected by free transfer losses too, with Cleverley and Vlaar- may be wrong.
He is basically a less talented Redknapp
Even in at my most hysterically anti-Sherwood last year, I conceded that he could well keep us up. All that bluff and (possibly undeserved) self-assurance can well rub off, and thank God it did last season. It was also a nice contrast with Lambert, who spent most of his time with us last season wearing a take-away-my-shoelaces expression on his face.
However, bluffers don't tend to plan very well, and so it's proving with Tim. Those comments, that he's just jigging it around to find what works, pretty much proves that he doesn't actually know how any plan he might come up with will work - he's just hoping that one will. Would any business organisation take that? It's just not good enough.
I think he has already lost the dressing room. It is rock bottom pub team management to regard harder training to be any kind of answer. Sweating the players will only make them deeply resentful,
I think he has already lost the dressing room. It is rock bottom pub team management to regard harder training to be any kind of answer. Sweating the players will only make them deeply resentful,
I note one of the Spurs players was interviewed today and put his improved form down to the amount of pre-season running they did and how it has improved fitness levels.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3261131/Eric-Dier-Tottenham-fittest-Premier-League-Mauricio-Pochettino-s-pre-season-sessions-running.html
I think I have a mild form of Tourettes which only manifests itself at the appearance of Allardyce, where I find myself making a request for two pork chops and some mince every time I catch sight of him. The thought of his fucking awful brand of football for the next seven years or whatever ridiculous amount of time our idiot owner would offer him in the event of Sherwood being sacked is bad enough without the prospect of blurting that out every bloody day.
i wish he'd stop speaking in the third person. what a massive prick.
I'll be gutted if Sunderland pull off the Moyes appointment as that's probably going to keep them up and secure their future. We could do a lot worse. Tim may come good but I'm worried that we don't have the time to wait and find out.
Not sure about better football, Everton fans used to same about him as we did MON, decent results but 'basic' football. Although that does sound quite appealing right now.
I think he has already lost the dressing room. It is rock bottom pub team management to regard harder training to be any kind of answer. Sweating the players will only make them deeply resentful,
I note one of the Spurs players was interviewed today and put his improved form down to the amount of pre-season running they did and how it has improved fitness levels.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3261131/Eric-Dier-Tottenham-fittest-Premier-League-Mauricio-Pochettino-s-pre-season-sessions-running.html
I think Hugo Lloris said something similar last season.
The other problem is that it isn't an overnight improvement with regard to fitness training - I have found it typically takes about 4 weeks before you start to realize the benefit, hence why they are supposed to start the training pre-season...maybe Tim knows different ?
Nah It will be fine, we can be told for the next month whilst we are losing that we are still getting fit and gelling as a team.
I actually think there is something in Sherwood saying that we're not fit enough to play they way he wants [i.e. the way Cleverley and Delph were at points last season]. The question is why aren't they prepared physically to do that?
I actually think there is something in Sherwood saying that we're not fit enough to play they way he wants [i.e. the way Cleverley and Delph were at points last season]. The question is why aren't they prepared physically to do that?
If they're not fit enough to play the way that he wants, why didn't he think about doing something about it when he had the chance over the summer rather than complaining about it now?
That is not Tourette's Syndrome Chris. Tourette himself on seeing a fat man from Dudley would have asked for a bottle of Vimto and a packet of pork scratchings. What you have got is referred to in medical circles as Jameson's Syndrome. Have you made a will?
Tim has no identity, no style and basically no clue.
I actually think there is something in Sherwood saying that we're not fit enough to play they way he wants [i.e. the way Cleverley and Delph were at points last season]. The question is why aren't they prepared physically to do that?
If they're not fit enough to play the way that he wants, why didn't he think about doing something about it when he had the chance over the summer rather than complaining about it now?
Tim has no identity, no style and basically no clue.
I'm not picking on you here because lots of others have said similar things, but we're you saying that when we beat Albion twice in the space of week, put 4 past Sunderland in half hour (mind you, who doesn't), went to Spurs and won, made Liverpool look ordinary in the Semi Final and had Benteke banging in 12 goals in 10 games or whatever it was? It wasn't that long ago. A little patience wouldn't so amiss.
The Villa job does seem to beat a lot of managers. Tim is already looking a lot older and more haggard than he did last season.So am I!
Tim has no identity, no style and basically no clue.
I'm not picking on you here because lots of others have said similar things, but we're you saying that when we beat Albion twice in the space of week, put 4 past Sunderland in half hour (mind you, who doesn't), went to Spurs and won, made Liverpool look ordinary in the Semi Final and had Benteke banging in 12 goals in 10 games or whatever it was? It wasn't that long ago. A little patience wouldn't so amiss.
Yes, he has only been here seven months. There are some big question marks but I simply don't think he has had long enough to throw away the good work and make a change. Not an awful lot left in the goodwill bank mind.
Tim has no identity, no style and basically no clue.
I'm not picking on you here because lots of others have said similar things, but we're you saying that when we beat Albion twice in the space of week, put 4 past Sunderland in half hour (mind you, who doesn't), went to Spurs and won, made Liverpool look ordinary in the Semi Final and had Benteke banging in 12 goals in 10 games or whatever it was? It wasn't that long ago. A little patience wouldn't so amiss.
Tim has no identity, no style and basically no clue.
I'm not picking on you here because lots of others have said similar things, but we're you saying that when we beat Albion twice in the space of week, put 4 past Sunderland in half hour (mind you, who doesn't), went to Spurs and won, made Liverpool look ordinary in the Semi Final and had Benteke banging in 12 goals in 10 games or whatever it was? It wasn't that long ago. A little patience wouldn't so amiss.
Yes, he has only been here seven months. There are some big question marks but I simply don't think he has had long enough to throw away the good work and make a change. Not an awful lot left in the goodwill bank mind.
Sadly he has to go.
Not because his tactics are poor (which they undeniably are), but because the squad is so poor. None of the signings have improved on obvious weaknesses from last year.
We need someone who can make a silk purse out of sow's ear until Christmas, then at least £30m needs to spent on a central midfielder and goal,scorer to have any chance of staying in the division.
Sherwood is not the man for either job.
They are all very valid points, but at the same time we can quote, Arsenal, Southampton, Burnley and every league game since (cepting B'Mouth).Tim has no identity, no style and basically no clue.
I'm not picking on you here because lots of others have said similar things, but we're you saying that when we beat Albion twice in the space of week, put 4 past Sunderland in half hour (mind you, who doesn't), went to Spurs and won, made Liverpool look ordinary in the Semi Final and had Benteke banging in 12 goals in 10 games or whatever it was? It wasn't that long ago. A little patience wouldn't so amiss.
Tim has no identity, no style and basically no clue.
I'm not picking on you here because lots of others have said similar things, but we're you saying that when we beat Albion twice in the space of week, put 4 past Sunderland in half hour (mind you, who doesn't), went to Spurs and won, made Liverpool look ordinary in the Semi Final and had Benteke banging in 12 goals in 10 games or whatever it was? It wasn't that long ago. A little patience wouldn't so amiss.
Yes, he has only been here seven months. There are some big question marks but I simply don't think he has had long enough to throw away the good work and make a change. Not an awful lot left in the goodwill bank mind.
I have been thinking about this a lot since Saturday and that is just about where I am. Let us see everyone fit for a few games and look at it at Christmas.
I actually think we have a pretty decent squad of players. It is the way they are being used by Sherwood that is the problem.
Ignore the flight of fancy in this, but another analogy if I may.
I want to knock down my conservatory and build an extension. The problem is the council won't have it and Marjorie Evans who makes these decisions always fights against building on anything that would otherwise be grass.
To appeal to her better nature I arrange a meeting in my conservatory at home. To give me the best place to showcase why this isn't an issue, I employ Dave.
Dave is a landscape gardener from Lye. Salt of the Earth. Learned the job from his Dad and Uncle.
He does four days work, makes the garden look magnificent and demonstrates to Marjorie that my extension won't harm such a fantastic selection of flora and fawna. Marjorie gives the extension the green light.
Do I ask Dave to build the extension? Take him on as a domestic employee with an annual contract to turn my back garden into something akin to the grounds at Longleat?
Or do you bung him a ton to treat himself to a few beers and take the kids out? Give a testimonial he can use in future?
That is where we are at the minute.
Okore?
Tim has no identity, no style and basically no clue.
I'm not picking on you here because lots of others have said similar things, but we're you saying that when we beat Albion twice in the space of week, put 4 past Sunderland in half hour (mind you, who doesn't), went to Spurs and won, made Liverpool look ordinary in the Semi Final and had Benteke banging in 12 goals in 10 games or whatever it was? It wasn't that long ago. A little patience wouldn't so amiss.
I have no answer to the lack of a proven striker.
I don't want a fucking manager learning his trade here for a start. Anyhow, what does he seem to learn from any of those mistakes? Nothing, he just makes different ones.
I don't want a fucking manager learning his trade here for a start. Anyhow, what does he seem to learn from any of those mistakes? Nothing, he just makes different ones.
The thing about his mistakes are not just that he picks tactics/personnel/formations that don't work. He sometimes does things that do work for a bit and then doesn't do them again.
I don't want a fucking manager learning his trade here for a start. Anyhow, what does he seem to learn from any of those mistakes? Nothing, he just makes different ones.
The thing about his mistakes are not just that he picks tactics/personnel/formations that don't work. He sometimes does things that do work for a bit and then doesn't do them again.
Wouldn't say it was a mistake. He didn't relegate us after all which was the easiest thing to do seeing as when he pitched up we couldn't even score a frigging goal.
The consensus through the last few months of Lambert's tenure was that we had a bunch of semi-competent players - give them somebody who could gee them up a bit better and we'd probably be fine. It's revisionism to suggest that survival last year was some sort of Sherwood-inspired miracle. It was a spluttery push to get us to the hard shoulder of the motorway.
It was absolutely a mistake. Unless you think that there was nobody else who could have both performed semi-competently last season and not been completely shit this season.
He has too many areas he needs to get right. You cannot say 'oh we just need to tighten up at the back' and we'll be ok or 'just need for us to add a bit of width'. Every area looks short, so I cannot see how it will 'click'.
He's obviously not fit enough to perform in the managerial style he wants, he should give himself more training...The Villa job does seem to beat a lot of managers. Tim is already looking a lot older and more haggard than he did last season.So am I!
Football is a team game but we just look like a bunch of individuals. There does not seem to be any cohesion between a group of 3 players in any area of the pitch. Two of the reasons for this are constant changing of the players and selecting players that others cannot link with. Gestede would be the most obvious example to me of the latter point. Other than his heading ability, he offers us very little and therefore, in my opinion, the negatives outweigh the positives. I think he would be better used as a substitute coming into a game later and giving the opposition something different to think about.I thought gestedes hold up play v Stoke was far better than it had previously been. I'm hoping he's a quick learner and we will see rapid improvements
Back of my mind says take 2 or 3 more woeful results and get rid of this chancer ASAP , get a proper manager in while we still have about 27/28 games left to make a go of it
I don't want a fucking manager learning his trade here for a start. Anyhow, what does he seem to learn from any of those mistakes? Nothing, he just makes different ones.
The thing about his mistakes are not just that he picks tactics/personnel/formations that don't work. He sometimes does things that do work for a bit and then doesn't do them again.
I have no answer to the lack of a proven striker.
I also don't have an answer but I have an opinion that Kozak deserves a chance to see if he can become that answer. He had a decent pre-season, has a good scoring for us and has worked his arse off to get fit, he deserves a run of sub appearances at the very least, I find it bizarre that we haven't looked at him, I also find the complete lack of time Ayew has been given central or on the left (the 2 positions he'd actually played before he joined us) bizarre.
All that said I think part of what we're seeing is a direct result of the number of signings he made. I'm not saying he was wrong to do it, but it feels a bit like he was a kid in a toy shop who was told he could get whatever he wanted, so he did and now he can't work out what to do with them all.
I want him sacked yesterday but it's not happening is it. Hence next 2-3 games , if we win them brilliant, but, if as it seems we lose all 2 or 3 please let him be gone
I have no answer to the lack of a proven striker.
I also don't have an answer but I have an opinion that Kozak deserves a chance to see if he can become that answer. He had a decent pre-season, has a good scoring for us and has worked his arse off to get fit, he deserves a run of sub appearances at the very least, I find it bizarre that we haven't looked at him, I also find the complete lack of time Ayew has been given central or on the left (the 2 positions he'd actually played before he joined us) bizarre.
All that said I think part of what we're seeing is a direct result of the number of signings he made. I'm not saying he was wrong to do it, but it feels a bit like he was a kid in a toy shop who was told he could get whatever he wanted, so he did and now he can't work out what to do with them all.
I wouldnt mind Kozak given a chance but he is far from the answer to our problems at the top of the pitch.
Poor hold up play, no pace, no presence (Gestede-lite) really.
Could be a useful impact player off the bench if we needed a goal like at the weekend perhaps.
Also I wouldnt say the lack of time Ayew has been given a surprise, aside from the encouraging cameo against Birmingham, he has been utterly woeful so far including his appearance against Stoke.
Played up top against United, granted with Gabby, both of them looked clones of the same dumb footballer.
Granted I want Timmy gone asap but perhaps we overestimate the individual quality in our squad
Right now there isnt one single player in the squad where you can say with confidence that he will hold his own over the next 5 games.
I've seen several reasons floated as to why he shouldn't get the chop.
It wouldn't be fair/too soon.
Hope he turns it around.
Blind hope.
It would be a bit small time / Newcastle to can him already.
I don't think that I've seen 1 footballing reason to keep him in the job since the thread was started and that in itself is pretty damning.
Know exactly where you're coming from.I want him sacked yesterday but it's not happening is it. Hence next 2-3 games , if we win them brilliant, but, if as it seems we lose all 2 or 3 please let him be gone
If we lose the next three matches, he won't be gone.
I'm afraid this might be one of these appointments that will be stuck by even to the point of getting relegated.
I'm finding myself partially - just a bit, mind - starting to think fuck it, we might as well get relegated and get it out of our systems.
It's like having a job interview or a root canal appointment with the dentist lined up. You get into a bit of a nervous state over it in the run up, but in the end you just want it over and done with and once it starts, it is OK. Once it is over, you feel significantly happier.
If we lose the next three he'll be fired. The fear of not being in the PL next season when the gravy train arrives will be too much to bear for the board. In fact I reckon lose the next two it could be curtains and it won't shock me at all if we aren't looking at our options already especially the likes of Rodgers bring out there, maybe even Moyes.Well let's hope so as this clearly isn't going to work and we need a bounce and some.
Kozak scoring goals in pre season then being dropped when the season started was just strange. He should be given the chance, and is every bit as good as Gestede in my opinion.
Let's hope Fox pressed his best shirt this morning.I'd much rather he pressed the big red button on Graham Norton's set whilst Sherwood was sitting in the big red chair.
Give him til Christmas at least. I'm not too confident but having backed him in the market it is too early to sack him yet, and someone else would just be stuck with his players. If there are no signs of improvement come the new year then we would have to strongly consider it.
Give him til Christmas at least. I'm not too confident but having backed him in the market it is too early to sack him yet, and someone else would just be stuck with his players. If there are no signs of improvement come the new year then we would have to strongly consider it.
I want him sacked yesterday but it's not happening is it. Hence next 2-3 games , if we win them brilliant, but, if as it seems we lose all 2 or 3 please let him be gone
If we lose the next three matches, he won't be gone.
I'm afraid this might be one of these appointments that will be stuck by even to the point of getting relegated.
I'm finding myself partially - just a bit, mind - starting to think fuck it, we might as well get relegated and get it out of our systems.
It's like having a job interview or a root canal appointment with the dentist lined up. You get into a bit of a nervous state over it in the run up, but in the end you just want it over and done with and once it starts, it is OK. Once it is over, you feel significantly happier.
If they have any brains, which they don't, they'd be looking at replacements right now and making discreet enquiries because this could all come to a head in another few weeks.
Chelsea are going to come out of their rut eventually and who's betting that it isn't going to be against us and we get a real slapping?
The bookies have him as 3rd favourite in the sack race. Behind McLaren and Mourinho.
Presume he is not more strongly favoured because of RL's reluctance to sack manager even when the evidence becomes overwhelming that he should do so.
That reluctance I put down to RL not wanting to admit that he (& Fox this time) got it wrong .........again!
Somewhat like TS himself RL does not want to own up to his mistakes and continual error of judgment.
We'd never appoint Mcleish, surely.........
We'd never give Lambore another contract, surely......
We'd never appoint a manager with 6 months experience, surely.......
We'd never buy players from the third division and throw them straight in to the premier league, surely....
Don't underestimate the stupidity of the muppets that run our club.
I'm still of the opinion he can turn it round. It's been a bloody woeful start but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that we've gone if he stays.Is there anything behind that Clampy, or is at a more Lambertesque "I just think we will" (For once not trying to be arsey / sarky, just hoping someone can point me in the direction of something I've missed other than blind hope)
I'm still of the opinion he can turn it round. It's been a bloody woeful start but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that we've gone if he stays.
Using Liverpool as an example is bizarre. They give their manager millions and millions to spend and then sack him out of fear that Chelsea might sack Mourinho and get Klopp first.
I'm still of the opinion he can turn it round. It's been a bloody woeful start but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that we've gone if he stays.Is there anything behind that Clampy, or is at a more Lambertesque "I just think we will" (For once not trying to be arsey / sarky, just hoping someone can point me in the direction of something I've missed other than blind hope)
Using Liverpool as an example is bizarre. They give their manager millions and millions to spend and then sack him out of fear that Chelsea might sack Mourinho and get Klopp first.
The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word
So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,
I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,
mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet
The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word
So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,
I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,
mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet
Cross me off that list until last season. Where stayed up by the skin off our teeth having ditched a manager that couldn't have worked out how to win a black eye in a boxing ring, let alone a football match.
I don't know what signs you've seen to think Sherwood has it within him to turn this season around. I've not found anyone who could give a reason to keep him other than
Blind hope
Wouldn't be fair on him so soon
Small time / Newcastleesque to sack him soon.
I have blind hope over a number of things, but I don't actually expect any of them to come true
It wouldn't be fair on us to let him relegate us, and it wouldn't be fair to him to drive him down to the extent the job drove Lambert down. In the end with Lambert it was almost a humanitarian decision to put him out of his misery and Sherwood looks like he's heading the same way.
Small time would be not sacking him because we were worried how it looked to the outside world and going down as a result.
Now has anyone got any footballing reasons to keep him that are more concrete than think/hope he'll turn it around?
The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word
So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,
I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,
mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet
Cross me off that list until last season. Where stayed up by the skin off our teeth having ditched a manager that couldn't have worked out how to win a black eye in a boxing ring, let alone a football match.
I don't know what signs you've seen to think Sherwood has it within him to turn this season around. I've not found anyone who could give a reason to keep him other than
Blind hope
Wouldn't be fair on him so soon
Small time / Newcastleesque to sack him soon.
I have blind hope over a number of things, but I don't actually expect any of them to come true
It wouldn't be fair on us to let him relegate us, and it wouldn't be fair to him to drive him down to the extent the job drove Lambert down. In the end with Lambert it was almost a humanitarian decision to put him out of his misery and Sherwood looks like he's heading the same way.
Small time would be not sacking him because we were worried how it looked to the outside world and going down as a result.
Now has anyone got any footballing reasons to keep him that are more concrete than think/hope he'll turn it around?
The best concrete footballing reason that your looking for is -
He's already done it once
The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word
So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,
I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,
mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet
Cross me off that list until last season. Where stayed up by the skin off our teeth having ditched a manager that couldn't have worked out how to win a black eye in a boxing ring, let alone a football match.
I don't know what signs you've seen to think Sherwood has it within him to turn this season around. I've not found anyone who could give a reason to keep him other than
Blind hope
Wouldn't be fair on him so soon
Small time / Newcastleesque to sack him soon.
I have blind hope over a number of things, but I don't actually expect any of them to come true
It wouldn't be fair on us to let him relegate us, and it wouldn't be fair to him to drive him down to the extent the job drove Lambert down. In the end with Lambert it was almost a humanitarian decision to put him out of his misery and Sherwood looks like he's heading the same way.
Small time would be not sacking him because we were worried how it looked to the outside world and going down as a result.
Now has anyone got any footballing reasons to keep him that are more concrete than think/hope he'll turn it around?
The best concrete footballing reason that your looking for is -
He's already done it once
That's also perfect logic for why we shouldn't have sacked Lambert last February.
After all, he'd already done it twice.
Majority influence takes effect at time like these. With have no more or less data to assess than we did on Saturday, save emotion has now expired. We have a forum to talk, so these things begin to amplify as time passes.
It works both ways.
The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word
So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,
I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,
mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet
Cross me off that list until last season. Where stayed up by the skin off our teeth having ditched a manager that couldn't have worked out how to win a black eye in a boxing ring, let alone a football match.
I don't know what signs you've seen to think Sherwood has it within him to turn this season around. I've not found anyone who could give a reason to keep him other than
Blind hope
Wouldn't be fair on him so soon
Small time / Newcastleesque to sack him soon.
I have blind hope over a number of things, but I don't actually expect any of them to come true
It wouldn't be fair on us to let him relegate us, and it wouldn't be fair to him to drive him down to the extent the job drove Lambert down. In the end with Lambert it was almost a humanitarian decision to put him out of his misery and Sherwood looks like he's heading the same way.
Small time would be not sacking him because we were worried how it looked to the outside world and going down as a result.
Now has anyone got any footballing reasons to keep him that are more concrete than think/hope he'll turn it around?
The best concrete footballing reason that your looking for is -
He's already done it once
That's also perfect logic for why we shouldn't have sacked Lambert last February.
After all, he'd already done it twice.
Majority influence takes effect at time like these. With have no more or less data to assess than we did on Saturday, save emotion has now expired. We have a forum to talk, so these things begin to amplify as time passes.
It works both ways.
To be fair to Rogers, he was only 1 part of the team that selected and sighed players...why other members of that team have not been held to account is anyones guess.
I think he came in with something very simple last season and ultimately almost foreign to the players and it worked. It released the players from the shackles of the Lambert era and the freedom it created was sufficient to see us across the line. While there was pressure in the end had we gone down nobody would have really pointed the finger at him because at the time staying up would have been considered a bit of a miracle but ultimately the only goal.Good points, well made TV.
Now with much more responsibility he is overcomplicating matters. He almost has too much time to think and what was a clear defined objective is becoming more complex. Even for a manager with experience the addition of so many players would be a challenge but add that in with someone in their first real campaign and I just think it is going too fast for him. The team selection last week for me at least signalled the first true sign of madness. We've heard him make lots of ego/confidence driven statements but they are now just becoming odd and uncomfortable. And the fact that he can go an entire week of practice and come to that team conclusion said a lot about where he is and worryingly where his mind is headed.
I think he came in with something very simple last season and ultimately almost foreign to the players and it worked. It released the players from the shackles of the Lambert era and the freedom it created was sufficient to see us across the line. While there was pressure in the end had we gone down nobody would have really pointed the finger at him because at the time staying up would have been considered a bit of a miracle but ultimately the only goal.Good points, well made TV.
Now with much more responsibility he is overcomplicating matters. He almost has too much time to think and what was a clear defined objective is becoming more complex. Even for a manager with experience the addition of so many players would be a challenge but add that in with someone in their first real campaign and I just think it is going too fast for him. The team selection last week for me at least signalled the first true sign of madness. We've heard him make lots of ego/confidence driven statements but they are now just becoming odd and uncomfortable. And the fact that he can go an entire week of practice and come to that team conclusion said a lot about where he is and worryingly where his mind is headed.
When you say 'see us across the line' lets remember that we barely scraped across it, by 1 place and 3 points.
I think he came in with something very simple last season and ultimately almost foreign to the players and it worked. It released the players from the shackles of the Lambert era and the freedom it created was sufficient to see us across the line. While there was pressure in the end had we gone down nobody would have really pointed the finger at him because at the time staying up would have been considered a bit of a miracle but ultimately the only goal.
Now with much more responsibility he is overcomplicating matters. He almost has too much time to think and what was a clear defined objective is becoming more complex. Even for a manager with experience the addition of so many players would be a challenge but add that in with someone in their first real campaign and I just think it is going too fast for him. The team selection last week for me at least signalled the first true sign of madness. We've heard him make lots of ego/confidence driven statements but they are now just becoming odd and uncomfortable. And the fact that he can go an entire week of practice and come to that team conclusion said a lot about where he is and worryingly where his mind is headed.
Majority influence takes effect at time like these. With have no more or less data to assess than we did on Saturday, save emotion has now expired. We have a forum to talk, so these things begin to amplify as time passes.
It works both ways.
To be fair to Rogers, he was only 1 part of the team that selected and sighed players...why other members of that team have not been held to account is anyones guess.
Rodgers had to accept players being signed for him, who he didn't want. How is that going to work out in the dressing room? I understand a group able to veto the manager if he wants to make a stupid signing - we could have used that when MON was in charge - but forcing players on the manager is a daft idea.
The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for wordNo that's not true. Certainly not for me. This is the first season that we have fallen significantly behind on games played and points accumulated. Previous years we had stayed on the fringe and generally games and points were equal.
The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for wordNo that's not true. Certainly not for me. This is the first season that we have fallen significantly behind on games played and points accumulated. Previous years we had stayed on the fringe and generally games and points were equal.
After the next 6 Chelsea, Swansea, Southampton, Spurs, Man city and Everton we are likely to have no more than 7 points from 14 games. This will be an unrecoverable position IMO.
Majority influence takes effect at time like these. With have no more or less data to assess than we did on Saturday, save emotion has now expired. We have a forum to talk, so these things begin to amplify as time passes.
It works both ways.
To be fair to Rogers, he was only 1 part of the team that selected and sighed players...why other members of that team have not been held to account is anyones guess.
Rodgers had to accept players being signed for him, who he didn't want. How is that going to work out in the dressing room? I understand a group able to veto the manager if he wants to make a stupid signing - we could have used that when MON was in charge - but forcing players on the manager is a daft idea.
do we know that isn't happening at Villa? do we know that the French players, and others signed, are Timmy's choices and not Reilly's?
2 Entirely different scenarios.The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word
So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,
I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,
mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet
Cross me off that list until last season. Where stayed up by the skin off our teeth having ditched a manager that couldn't have worked out how to win a black eye in a boxing ring, let alone a football match.
I don't know what signs you've seen to think Sherwood has it within him to turn this season around. I've not found anyone who could give a reason to keep him other than
Blind hope
Wouldn't be fair on him so soon
Small time / Newcastleesque to sack him soon.
I have blind hope over a number of things, but I don't actually expect any of them to come true
It wouldn't be fair on us to let him relegate us, and it wouldn't be fair to him to drive him down to the extent the job drove Lambert down. In the end with Lambert it was almost a humanitarian decision to put him out of his misery and Sherwood looks like he's heading the same way.
Small time would be not sacking him because we were worried how it looked to the outside world and going down as a result.
Now has anyone got any footballing reasons to keep him that are more concrete than think/hope he'll turn it around?
The best concrete footballing reason that your looking for is -
He's already done it once
That's also perfect logic for why we shouldn't have sacked Lambert last February.
After all, he'd already done it twice.
He was asking for a reason, I gave him one
Lambert was given 2/3 seasons to prove he was shit not 8 games, I think there is a big difference there
I'm also not saying he/you are wrong, Just because he did it last season doesn't mean he can repeat the trick,
but if your looking for a reason as VID was as to what evidence there is to for Sherwood to turn things around, then the experience of having done it 6 months ago has to be exhibit number one
Using Liverpool as an example is bizarre. They give their manager millions and millions to spend and then sack him out of fear that Chelsea might sack Mourinho and get Klopp first.
Rodgers has only been given millions and millions in the same way that Sherwood has - most of the money we spent was recouped through players sales, but so was most of the money that Liverpool spent.
The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word
So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,
I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,
mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet
I just can't help but think you sign players who will fit into the style and formation you want your side playing, not sign them and then scratch your head wondering what to do with them.
I'm not offering a face-saving defence for the man, just saying that there are always shades of grey.
The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word
So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,
I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,
mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet
Cross me off that list until last season. Where stayed up by the skin off our teeth having ditched a manager that couldn't have worked out how to win a black eye in a boxing ring, let alone a football match.
I don't know what signs you've seen to think Sherwood has it within him to turn this season around. I've not found anyone who could give a reason to keep him other than
Blind hope
Wouldn't be fair on him so soon
Small time / Newcastleesque to sack him soon.
I have blind hope over a number of things, but I don't actually expect any of them to come true
It wouldn't be fair on us to let him relegate us, and it wouldn't be fair to him to drive him down to the extent the job drove Lambert down. In the end with Lambert it was almost a humanitarian decision to put him out of his misery and Sherwood looks like he's heading the same way.
Small time would be not sacking him because we were worried how it looked to the outside world and going down as a result.
Now has anyone got any footballing reasons to keep him that are more concrete than think/hope he'll turn it around?
2 Entirely different scenarios.The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word
So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,
I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,
mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet
Cross me off that list until last season. Where stayed up by the skin off our teeth having ditched a manager that couldn't have worked out how to win a black eye in a boxing ring, let alone a football match.
I don't know what signs you've seen to think Sherwood has it within him to turn this season around. I've not found anyone who could give a reason to keep him other than
Blind hope
Wouldn't be fair on him so soon
Small time / Newcastleesque to sack him soon.
I have blind hope over a number of things, but I don't actually expect any of them to come true
It wouldn't be fair on us to let him relegate us, and it wouldn't be fair to him to drive him down to the extent the job drove Lambert down. In the end with Lambert it was almost a humanitarian decision to put him out of his misery and Sherwood looks like he's heading the same way.
Small time would be not sacking him because we were worried how it looked to the outside world and going down as a result.
Now has anyone got any footballing reasons to keep him that are more concrete than think/hope he'll turn it around?
The best concrete footballing reason that your looking for is -
He's already done it once
That's also perfect logic for why we shouldn't have sacked Lambert last February.
After all, he'd already done it twice.
He was asking for a reason, I gave him one
Lambert was given 2/3 seasons to prove he was shit not 8 games, I think there is a big difference there
I'm also not saying he/you are wrong, Just because he did it last season doesn't mean he can repeat the trick,
but if your looking for a reason as VID was as to what evidence there is to for Sherwood to turn things around, then the experience of having done it 6 months ago has to be exhibit number one
Last season. Squad that knew each other and what the league was all about. Pretty much everyone was saying if we played more on the front footballing, with a bit more ambition we'd do much better. Relatively simple fix.
This season. Pretty much completely new squad. Large proportion of the players new to the league. Floundering around trying to find some semblance of a team that works, whilst ignoring what's been behind our 3 best 45 minutes this season. Everything screams that he doesn't know what to do to fix this.
And even if you don't accept it's 2 different scenarios, by your logic Chelsea should be about 5 points clear at the top and Wigan would still be playing in the top flight.
What is it they say about financial investments? Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns?
That's not a concrete footballing reason , that's blind hope.
Although not directly in the question, in the context of the rest of what I wrote, I was looking for footballing reasons from this season.
Just saying he did it last year? That's not a concrete footballing reason , that's blind hope.
The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word
So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,
I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,
mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet
Cross me off that list until last season. Where stayed up by the skin off our teeth having ditched a manager that couldn't have worked out how to win a black eye in a boxing ring, let alone a football match.
I don't know what signs you've seen to think Sherwood has it within him to turn this season around. I've not found anyone who could give a reason to keep him other than
Blind hope
Wouldn't be fair on him so soon
Small time / Newcastleesque to sack him soon.
I have blind hope over a number of things, but I don't actually expect any of them to come true
It wouldn't be fair on us to let him relegate us, and it wouldn't be fair to him to drive him down to the extent the job drove Lambert down. In the end with Lambert it was almost a humanitarian decision to put him out of his misery and Sherwood looks like he's heading the same way.
Small time would be not sacking him because we were worried how it looked to the outside world and going down as a result.
Now has anyone got any footballing reasons to keep him that are more concrete than think/hope he'll turn it around?
I'll take being small time if being in the big time is hanging on to managers like knob head Lambert because we're afraid of being a laughing stock, besides we've already entered the realms of laughing stock many times the last few years.
I'm not offering a face-saving defence for the man, just saying that there are always shades of grey.
I'd suggest that nuance and shades-of-grey is exactly what we're missing. It's a case of "well, that didn't work so let's do something that is completely different and see if that's any better*".
Look at the team for Notts County - Gil, Grealish, Traore, Ayew and Sinclair all forced into the side.
We play pretty badly, so that means that the whole idea was bad - next round we play another lower-league side with a first-choice back four with another centre-half sitting in front of them and two more defensive midfielders in the side in front of all that. It just seems that rather than tweaking the things that aren't working, the solution is just to do the exact opposite and see if that's any better.
*something that could equally be applied to how we select our managers, but that's an essay for another day.
Anyway, if a new manager does come in, he's not going to know his best side either. I'm with John, it's too soon to be talking about getting rid of him or relegation.
Anyway, if a new manager does come in, he's not going to know his best side either. I'm with John, it's too soon to be talking about getting rid of him or relegation.
when you have the inexperienced leading the inexperienced (with obvious exceptions) it doesn't wholly surprise me that our results have been shite, but obviously that can't be allowed to go on for much longer. Can he turn it round in the next six games? Probably not, but his only salvation lies in a return to his earlier, bolder approach and by properly utilising our most creative players.
Anyway, if a new manager does come in, he's not going to know his best side either. I'm with John, it's too soon to be talking about getting rid of him or relegation.
A new manager won't, but he won't have had them for months including a full pre-season.
8 games gone, 6 defeats, 4 points from safety, a manager that has said he doesn't have a clue what he wants or is trying to do, complains they aren't fit enough despite it being his job to make sure they are. Normally i'd agree but because of the first sentence I don't think it is too early to be talking about. I'm usually Mr Optimistic and stuck by Lambert a lot longer than most, but Sherwood is worrying me a lot.
Our last 10 league games, W1 D1 L8. That worries me a lot.
Anyway, if a new manager does come in, he's not going to know his best side either. I'm with John, it's too soon to be talking about getting rid of him or relegation.
A new manager won't, but he won't have had them for months including a full pre-season.
8 games gone, 6 defeats, 4 points from safety, a manager that has said he doesn't have a clue what he wants or is trying to do, complains they aren't fit enough despite it being his job to make sure they are. Normally i'd agree but because of the first sentence I don't think it is too early to be talking about. I'm usually Mr Optimistic and stuck by Lambert a lot longer than most, but Sherwood is worrying me a lot.
Anyway, if a new manager does come in, he's not going to know his best side either. I'm with John, it's too soon to be talking about getting rid of him or relegation.
A new manager won't, but he won't have had them for months including a full pre-season.
8 games gone, 6 defeats, 4 points from safety, a manager that has said he doesn't have a clue what he wants or is trying to do, complains they aren't fit enough despite it being his job to make sure they are. Normally i'd agree but because of the first sentence I don't think it is too early to be talking about. I'm usually Mr Optimistic and stuck by Lambert a lot longer than most, but Sherwood is worrying me a lot.
I understand the frustrations, it's been an horrendous start but I just honestly think 8 games is too soon.
Anyway, if a new manager does come in, he's not going to know his best side either. I'm with John, it's too soon to be talking about getting rid of him or relegation.
A new manager won't, but he won't have had them for months including a full pre-season.
8 games gone, 6 defeats, 4 points from safety, a manager that has said he doesn't have a clue what he wants or is trying to do, complains they aren't fit enough despite it being his job to make sure they are. Normally i'd agree but because of the first sentence I don't think it is too early to be talking about. I'm usually Mr Optimistic and stuck by Lambert a lot longer than most, but Sherwood is worrying me a lot.
I understand the frustrations, it's been an horrendous start but I just honestly think 8 games is too soon.
Why? Balls to it being a smallish sample of games, what have you seen of his work this season that convinces you to persevere with him?
I don't hate Sherwood. I would much prefer it if he succeeded. But not only is he not succeeding, he is approaching trying to fix that in ever more mental ways.
Did he give you any pork scratchings?
Did you tap him up for the Villa Risso?
I'm tired of us luring non-Villa men. Roy Keane, Ray Wilkins, these people are just not Villa. Billy McNeil's another (shudders). It was the same when we bought players like Fashanu, McAvennie and Cascarino, you just knew there would never be a connection and they were plodding through their careers taking the money where they could, Villa were a welcome stepping stone.
I get that football's moved on and foreign managers proliferate but right now we need a manger who understands Villa, someone who fits. Sherwood was never going to fit and as for Wilkins he couldn't fit into a lift these days, remove his cake and chips allowance and he'll walk (or roll).
I'm tired of us luring non-Villa men. Roy Keane, Ray Wilkins, these people are just not Villa. Billy McNeil's another (shudders). It was the same when we bought players like Fashanu, McAvennie and Cascarino, you just knew there would never be a connection and they were plodding through their careers taking the money where they could, Villa were a welcome stepping stone.
I get that football's moved on and foreign managers proliferate but right now we need a manger who understands Villa, someone who fits. Sherwood was never going to fit and as for Wilkins he couldn't fit into a lift these days, remove his cake and chips allowance and he'll walk (or roll).
Bold bit, how does that help? How do you measure it? How does it show how suitable someone is for the job?
You see this from almost every club when they're looking for a new manager but I don't get why it's a requirement. I want someone who can win football matches and do it with a bit of style. If that means getting someone from Peru who has never heard of aston villa then so be it. I want a manager who realises how big we are but doesn't feel intimidated by it and start playing safety first football. Sherwood showed signs of that but the last month have proven him to be yet another victim.
Of the candidates mentioned for other jobs Ronald De Boer would be at the top of the list for me.
I'm tired of us luring non-Villa men. Roy Keane, Ray Wilkins, these people are just not Villa. Billy McNeil's another (shudders). It was the same when we bought players like Fashanu, McAvennie and Cascarino, you just knew there would never be a connection and they were plodding through their careers taking the money where they could, Villa were a welcome stepping stone.
I get that football's moved on and foreign managers proliferate but right now we need a manger who understands Villa, someone who fits. Sherwood was never going to fit and as for Wilkins he couldn't fit into a lift these days, remove his cake and chips allowance and he'll walk (or roll).
Bold bit, how does that help? How do you measure it? How does it show how suitable someone is for the job?
You see this from almost every club when they're looking for a new manager but I don't get why it's a requirement. I want someone who can win football matches and do it with a bit of style. If that means getting someone from Peru who has never heard of aston villa then so be it. I want a manager who realises how big we are but doesn't feel intimidated by it and start playing safety first football. Sherwood showed signs of that but the last month have proven him to be yet another victim.
Of the candidates mentioned for other jobs Ronald De Boer would be at the top of the list for me.
2 Entirely different scenarios.
Last season. Squad that knew each other and what the league was all about. Pretty much everyone was saying if we played more on the front footballing, with a bit more ambition we'd do much better. Relatively simple fix.
This season. Pretty much completely new squad. Large proportion of the players new to the league. Floundering around trying to find some semblance of a team that works, whilst ignoring what's been behind our 3 best 45 minutes this season. Everything screams that he doesn't know what to do to fix this.
And even if you don't accept it's 2 different scenarios, by your logic Chelsea should be about 5 points clear at the top and Wigan would still be playing in the top flight.
What is it they say about financial investments? Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns?
That's not a concrete footballing reason , that's blind hope.
Although not directly in the question, in the context of the rest of what I wrote, I was looking for footballing reasons from this season.
Just saying he did it last year? That's not a concrete footballing reason , that's blind hope.
But it's still a reason, you might bat it away as your minds already made up,
But you can't rewrite history it happened,
whether you like it or not, whether it's two different scenarios or not,different players etc,
he still kept us up last season and that is indisputable
You say by my reckoning Chelsea would be here and Wigan there,
But if you read my post I wasn't arguing against your points, they might well turn out to be true
You were asking for some evidence, and I gave you a bit, you don't like it or accept it, but that is all I was doing
After reading that article on the other Sherwood thread I'd sack him now for complete lack of awareness, knowledge and for incompetence. So he wanted to buy Townsend, Lennon and Adebayor but ended up with these talented youngsters with great potential from overseas and doesn't know what to do with them.
I remember saying towards the end of Lambert's time here and that one of the reasons he needed to leave was for his own well being as he was looking lost, haggard and defeated etc. Sherwood has started looking the same way.
It wouldn't be fair on us to let him relegate us, and it wouldn't be fair to him to drive him down to the extent the job drove Lambert down. In the end with Lambert it was almost a humanitarian decision to put him out of his misery and Sherwood looks like he's heading the same way.
I'm getting more worried by the day. Something is quite clearly very wrong.Has been for years.
After reading that article on the other Sherwood thread I'd sack him now for complete lack of awareness, knowledge and for incompetence. So he wanted to buy Townsend, Lennon and Adebayor but ended up with these talented youngsters with great potential from overseas and doesn't know what to do with them.
After reading that article on the other Sherwood thread I'd sack him now for complete lack of awareness, knowledge and for incompetence. So he wanted to buy Townsend, Lennon and Adebayor but ended up with these talented youngsters with great potential from overseas and doesn't know what to do with them.
You are reading an article which for all you know might be a load of crap. It's not as if he's not been allowed to bring in experience. Richards and Lescott came in and he was on the verge on signing Adebayor. Since when has the Daily Mail been reliable?
The only quotes I saw in that article were the ones about him not knowing what his best team is yet, and we already knew about those.
I'm not about to condemn him for wanting to sign average, overpaid players from his previous club simply because he's met them before, unless I know for a fact it's true.
There's enough solid evidence to damn him at the moment, without making shit up as well.
Tim has no identity, no style and basically no clue.
I'm not picking on you here because lots of others have said similar things, but we're you saying that when we beat Albion twice in the space of week, put 4 past Sunderland in half hour (mind you, who doesn't), went to Spurs and won, made Liverpool look ordinary in the Semi Final and had Benteke banging in 12 goals in 10 games or whatever it was? It wasn't that long ago. A little patience wouldn't so amiss.
let's face it, we were all delighted when these signing's were flying through the door a couple of months ago.
let's face it, we were all delighted when these signing's were flying through the door a couple of months ago.
Were we? some of us were questioning whether they were good enough to play at Premier League level
let's face it, we were all delighted when these signing's were flying through the door a couple of months ago.
Were we? some of us were questioning whether they were good enough to play at Premier League level
Ok maybe everyone on here, but there was an overall air of excitement at these promising players coming in. Look back at the indivdual threads and you'll see what I mean.
Sherwood has said all along that the final decision on players is his. I also heard Ray Wilkins say on Talksport not long ago that Sherwood knew a lot of young players across europe and the player's he's brought in does kind of back this up. I'm sure there are players amongst the 14 that were offered to him and he's took on board but let's face it, we were all delighted when these signing's were flying through the door a couple of months ago.
let's face it, we were all delighted when these signing's were flying through the door a couple of months ago.
Were we? some of us were questioning whether they were good enough to play at Premier League level
Ok maybe everyone on here, but there was an overall air of excitement at these promising players coming in. Look back at the indivdual threads and you'll see what I mean.
Sherwood should have two more games to turn in round and that should be it.
At the same time, much as we like to think we're experts, we are just enthusiastic amateurs.
I don't think it really matters too much. If it's Sherwood individually picking them that's fine, if it's somebody else identifying the type of players that the manager wants and then signing them with everybody's agreement then that's fine. I think it's far more likely to be the latter, but neither of those scenarios causes a problem.
It only becomes an issue if we're buying players that the manager doesn't want to use (like Jol/Comolli at Spurs). In which case, it's all a bit pointless.
I'm still extremely happy with the players that we signed. Even on what they've shown so far, that's still better than having Townsend and Lennon instead. I'd just like us to be using them all a bit better.
It seems perfectly plausible that Sherwood wanted to bring in Lennon and Townsend. Based on his limited experience, he obviously likes his teams to cross the ball to the big man. We don't really have any out and out, old fashioned wingers who get to the by-line, but those two players would fit the bill. As it is, he's trying to get Amavi and Hutton to provide all the width and the crosses to Gestede, but I suspect if he had gotten his way with Lennon and Townsend, the team might look a bit more coherent (although possibly not a lot more effective).
I'm not one for giving credence to anything printed in the Daily Heil, but I strongly suspect Sherwood was counting on having those players, and is now fuming because he doesn't have the personnel to implement the only game plan he really knows, and is consequently preparing to chuck the toys out of the pram.
Word on Twitter is that Pearson has been spotted leaving BH and in a pub in Sutton,God I hope its not true.
Word on Twitter is that Pearson has been spotted leaving BH and in a pub in Sutton,God I hope its not true.
Of course it isn't.
Word on Twitter is that Pearson has been spotted leaving BH and in a pub in Sutton,God I hope its not true.
Word on Twitter is that Pearson has been spotted leaving BH and in a pub in Sutton,God I hope its not true.
If you believe that you are an ostrich.
changing the boss though will only have a very minimal impact if any
I'm getting more worried by the day. Something is quite clearly very wrong.Has been for years.
Cleverley?
He actually looked a quality player in all of 3 games in the time he was here.
The rest of the time he was benched or as shit as the rest of them.
Let's not build him up into something he wasn't.
to be fair to our man he was left with difficulties as soon as Delph, Benteke and Cleverly moved on.
We could have Shankly, Saunders, Clough etc all rolled into one, there is only so much you can do with our squad.
Yes I do fear for our immediate future, changing the boss though will only have a very minimal impact if any. Get me Austin etc in the transfer window.
Yes I do fear for our immediate future, changing the boss though will only have a very minimal impact if any.
From what I saw of Lennon at the weekend, bundling a cross anywhere might be a bit beyond him these days. He took shit to a level only usually found in Minworth.Yes Lennon the man who never was!
looks like we lost out on Klopp,I think that's it and now I understand why Ancelotti went missing when Liverpool tried to contact him. Ready when you are Carlo.
but Ancelotti is still available
Yes I do fear for our immediate future, changing the boss though will only have a very minimal impact if any.
Well, it would mean that we might have a competent manager rather than somebody who isn't really a manager at all.
But then, given the decision-making process from last time there's no guarantee that if we did get rid of him we wouldn't just end up with Joe Kinnear or Zippy from Rainbow next up.
Yes I do fear for our immediate future, changing the boss though will only have a very minimal impact if any.
Well, it would mean that we might have a competent manager rather than somebody who isn't really a manager at all.
But then, given the decision-making process from last time there's no guarantee that if we did get rid of him we wouldn't just end up with Joe Kinnear or Zippy from Rainbow next up.
That's another reason why we should maybe give Sherwood a bit more time. There's not a great deal of choice out there. If we were to make a change at some point, we might need to go for somebody who's already in a job.
Ideally I'd prefer someone a bit more progressive and cerebral.Personally I'd go after the De Bouers or Mike Laudrup
Scotch any thoughts of managers from there again.
My choices...If I had a crystal ball and I knew he'd still be able to hold his head up high after a few years in charge l, I'd love Little to come back. I'd be so worried he'd get tarnished if it didn't work.
Little
De Boer
Moyes
Rodgers
Howe (Eddie)
Pearson
Clarke
Rowett
My choices...
Little
De Boer
Moyes
Rodgers
Howe (Eddie)
Pearson
Clarke
Rowett
Rowett is a funny one.
I wouldn't put him on a list of "I'd like these" names, but if you placed before me a button and said "press this and you swap Sherwood for Rowett right now" I'd do it.
We'd be doing very well to get Rodgers or Moyes to even take the phonecall in the state we're in, so there is no even about it.
I say it every time - Cesare Prandelli is a Villa fan, speaks English, plays good football...
If Leicester can appoint Ranieri then we can appoint someone decent too, we don't have to talk ourselves down completely all the time, that's what the losers at the club want. No ambition, no expectation other than to survive. We can and will do better. Premier league, pay well, big ground, good attendances, great story. Someone out there will see us as a great opportunity because we are.
There's legendary status waiting for someone with a bit of fire, nous and charisma about them. It will happen and probably sooner if we stop taking all the shit on the chin and make it clear that this is not good enough, the excuses have to stop, we can be better than making up the numbers.
If Leicester can appoint Ranieri then we can appoint someone decent too, we don't have to talk ourselves down completely all the time, that's what the losers at the club want. No ambition, no expectation other than to survive. We can and will do better. Premier league, pay well, big ground, good attendances, great story. Someone out there will see us as a great opportunity because we are.
There's legendary status waiting for someone with a bit of fire, nous and charisma about them. It will happen and probably sooner if we stop taking all the shit on the chin and make it clear that this is not good enough, the excuses have to stop, we can be better than making up the numbers.
This !
FFS its the most popular league in the world ,and despite us being shit for a few years we still are a recognizable team so I'm pretty sure should we sack Tim we would have a decent selection to pick from ..of course the trouble is the people picking the managers have a 100% record of getting it wrong..
If Leicester can appoint Ranieri then we can appoint someone decent too
The policy at the club now is to sign potential. We have seen that with the players we have bought and Sherwood falls into the same category. So there is nothing to suggest that next time they are going to be seeking out anyone with a proven track record.
I say it every time - Cesare Prandelli is a Villa fan, speaks English, plays good football...
The policy at the club now is to sign potential.
I say it every time - Cesare Prandelli is a Villa fan, speaks English, plays good football...
Exactly! Why we haven't gone for him baffles me.
I want a German.
I say it every time - Cesare Prandelli is a Villa fan, speaks English, plays good football...
Exactly! Why we haven't gone for him baffles me.
Because he's foreign, and therefore "a gamble". We'll go for a safe pair of hands that's always managed in England. Badly.
I want a German.I want an Indian
No more up and coming managers.
You cannot take suggestions seriously for managers whose experience amounts to running tiny, tin-pot outfits like Hasselbaink, Howe and Rowett with the extreme pressures and expectations of managing a club like us.
Anyone reading Klopp's quotes on taking over at 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' not insanaely jealous.............?
If Leicester can appoint Ranieri then we can appoint someone decent too
If we'd have appointed Ranieri, either immediately after sacking Lambert, or even this summer, most Villa fans would have been in meltdown.
Watching all the hoo-ha over Klopp reminded me how I felt the day O'Neill arrived. I couldn't wait for the season to start; it felt like we were huge again.
Of course, if I'd have known we'd still be pining for him five years later like a miserable divorcee, I probably wouldn't have been so chuffed.
the divorce was acrimonious to say the least, but what wouldn't I give for a top six finish now.
Not to do all this again, but I don't think you can just say that the top 6 finishes were all down to MON, and that since then the only thing missing has been a good enough manager. MON has qualities, but he's also the reason we didn't finish top 4 - if we'd appointed someone like Mancini, we would have.
the divorce was acrimonious to say the least, but what wouldn't I give for a top six finish now.
At the moment I'd take a six from bottom. :-\
No more up and coming managers.
You cannot take suggestions seriously for managers whose experience amounts to running tiny, tin-pot outfits like Hasselbaink, Howe and Rowett with the extreme pressures and expectations of managing a club like us.
Watching all the hoo-ha over Klopp reminded me how I felt the day O'Neill arrived. I couldn't wait for the season to start; it felt like we were huge again.I'm not pining for him.
Of course, if I'd have known we'd still be pining for him five years later like a miserable divorcee, I probably wouldn't have been so chuffed.
Watching all the hoo-ha over Klopp reminded me how I felt the day O'Neill arrived. I couldn't wait for the season to start; it felt like we were huge again.I'm not pining for him.
Of course, if I'd have known we'd still be pining for him five years later like a miserable divorcee, I probably wouldn't have been so chuffed.
Well, that's Allardyce out of the picture for us then.
He'll get them out of the shit too - if he takes it.
He'll get them out of the shit too - if he takes it.
He has taken it. To be honest, maybe he will, but I'm really sceptical - that's one shit team right there. He'll get them above us, though, if we perservere with the fool.
I am sure we will all feel so much better about Fat Sam going to Sunderland, less so when he gets them up the table of course.re
I am sure we will all feel so much better about Fat Sam going to Sunderland, less so when he gets them up the table of course.re
There was a load of support for Big Sam on here, he was probably the favourite
Not from me though if Sherwood leaves now, with Pulis and Allardyce out of the way me leeb, Paulie and a few others can breathe more easily
I am sure we will all feel so much better about Fat Sam going to Sunderland, less so when he gets them up the table of course.re
There was a load of support for Big Sam on here, he was probably the favourite
Not from me though if Sherwood leaves now, with Pulis and Allardyce out of the way me leeb, Paulie and a few others can breathe more easily
Breathe more easily? With the situation we are in?
...but a club like Villa should not be appointing managers with potential that need time to learn. We need proven ability, now more than ever, because we're in the shit.
It would be very easy to argue that the last shit 6 years are largely down to O'Neill's incompetence and arrogance.
That and Lerner. And for all the talk about the club needing an experienced manager, I would go one step further and say the club desperately needs experienced leaders at the top.
He'll get them out of the shit too - if he takes it.
He has taken it. To be honest, maybe he will, but I'm really sceptical - that's one shit team right there. He'll get them above us, though, if we perservere with the fool.
It would be very easy to argue that the last shit 6 years are largely down to O'Neill's incompetence and arrogance.
That and Lerner. And for all the talk about the club needing an experienced manager, I would go one step further and say the club desperately needs experienced leaders at the top.
No it wouldnt, that argument would be ridiculous
The season (5 days) before he left was always going to be a struggle as he left a shambles behind.
But that was still a very good squad of players, a manager that took that side down should never have worked in the game again.
Part of the reason MON had to go was because our board irresponsibly gave him control of the purse strings
Southampton havent fallen apart, they keep getting rid of managers and players and keep the show on the road, Swansea too.
We cant keep blaming MON for the failings of his four successors, all woeful in their own right.
Sherwood is the worst of the lot though, I cant see him managing at any level after this gig finishes up.
There is a bigger problem regarding the culture of the club though, that goes back maybe 20 years or more that needs fixing.
It would take a superb manager to thrive at Villa like Taylor did first time.
Why did Brian Little ultimately fail at the club, where was the support for him when he needed it?
Paul Lambert looked completely overawed from day one, again where was the support structure to help him succeed?
...but a club like Villa should not be appointing managers with potential that need time to learn. We need proven ability, now more than ever, because we're in the shit.
We did that with our previous (and I suppose current) CEO too, and Lerner has had more than enough time to learn...and where's the Chairman ?
Evening Ray ;)...but a club like Villa should not be appointing managers with potential that need time to learn. We need proven ability, now more than ever, because we're in the shit.
We did that with our previous (and I suppose current) CEO too, and Lerner has had more than enough time to learn...and where's the Chairman ?
I'm a bit pissed and lost here. Are you agreeing with me?
Hasselbaink sounds like he's streets ahead of Sherwood already.
Doing his apprenticeship, earning his stripes. Instead of a microwave PL manager like we haveHasselbaink sounds like he's streets ahead of Sherwood already.
He's also the manager of Burton Albion.
Burton Albion.
I'm a bit pissed and lost here. Are you agreeing with me?
Somebody who knows how to play good football please. When was the last time you saw a relegated side and said 'yeah, but their football was brilliant to watch'?
I actually think Rodgers would be our best bet. I think there's a decent coach/tactician in there, possibly best demonstrated in his Swansea spell. I certainly wouldn't be unhappy if we were to get him in.Agree Des, I think he's gone on record though as saying he's taking some time off now.
I actually think Rodgers would be our best bet. I think there's a decent coach/tactician in there, possibly best demonstrated in his Swansea spell. I certainly wouldn't be unhappy if we were to get him in.Id imagine Rodgers will take a break now to be honest I very much doubt he will just dive into a rekegation battle now.
I actually think Rodgers would be our best bet. I think there's a decent coach/tactician in there, possibly best demonstrated in his Swansea spell. I certainly wouldn't be unhappy if we were to get him in.Agree Des, I think he's gone on record though as saying he's taking some time off now.
we can slag him off as much as we want
but im watching England tonight. theyre playing
with no fkn idea, formation or tactics
but still winning!!
I don't like saying it but I think its all down to our players
they appear to me to be SHITE
Premier league experienced managers worth getting
Rodgers
Laudrup
Pearson
I see Sherwood no better than poyet or di canio. Steve kean was particularly awful but the others were established players so got away with some kudos when all they did was inspire their teams for a few games. Keegan type managers who motivate then novelty wears off.
The likes of mulenstean at Fulham a few years ago did nothing to prove a good coach can take on a team as Sherwood and Ramsey
Bilic and ranieri are foreign coaches who doing well so could explore that market and koeman has been impressive so a manager like these would be worth taking.
Quique flores could go either way and advocat was unlucky. I think a manager who can deal with these french players like Remy garde and maybe ginola as attacking coach Glenn hoddle involved too with his youth and French knowledge. If not laudrup or rodgers or pearson. Add Merson rather than ginola could be more realistic and maybe steve Clark to step in after hoddle with Remy garde is too risky. I'd rather have set up like that with some flair .
we can slag him off as much as we want
but im watching England tonight. theyre playing
with no fkn idea, formation or tactics
but still winning!!
I don't like saying it but I think its all down to our players
they appear to me to be SHITE
exactlywe can slag him off as much as we want
but im watching England tonight. theyre playing
with no fkn idea, formation or tactics
but still winning!!
I don't like saying it but I think its all down to our players
they appear to me to be SHITE
Or the alternative interpretation is that you can be a god awful manager with no tactics and totally out of date ideas about the game but if you've got a squad that's far better than the opposition you'll get away with it but as soon as you come up against squads closer to you're own level you'll look lost. If you look at like that and then consider that we beat Blues during this run of shit performances it fits better.
No more up and coming managers.Yes ok but why not appoint an up and coming proper coach who did the right thing by pitching his tent in the lower league to learn rather than a sharp witted footballing village idiot?
You cannot take suggestions seriously for managers whose experience amounts to running tiny, tin-pot outfits like Hasselbaink, Howe and Rowett with the extreme pressures and expectations of managing a club like us.
I haven't read the last few pages but it's hardly as though by getting rid of Sherwood that's the end of our problems. I have absolutely zero faith whatsoever in the custodians of the club to get an appointment right. Their track record in this department isn't great is it.
Of course we had no way of knowing how preferred choice Lambert was going to end up. But Mcleish, Houllier, Sherwood?! The very obvious choice to steady a ship would be Moyes so we can count that out for a start.
His ever-touted win ratio is taking a beating. He's doing himself no favors in staying, with the exception of his growing wallet. Like most Villa managers in recent history I don't see him getting another premier league job.
I agree with most of what Paul said, we're shit because of our own doing. Hopefully our next manager is a responsible choice.
I'd love us, just for once, to appoint a manager that leaves rivals jealous thinking "how the fuck did they get him"?
Moyes is the best gettable option about, and randy is a fan. I'd be happy with him coming on board.
I'd love us, just for once, to appoint a manager that leaves rivals jealous thinking "how the fuck did they get him"?
And Joe Mercer. But it hasn't happened often.I'd love us, just for once, to appoint a manager that leaves rivals jealous thinking "how the fuck did they get him"?
We did with MON
Moyes is the best gettable option about, and randy is a fan. I'd be happy with him coming on board.
I'd be uninspired, but I'd feel a lot safer.
Moyes is the best gettable option about, and randy is a fan. I'd be happy with him coming on board.
I'd be uninspired, but I'd feel a lot safer.
And how will you feel when he plays the groin tingling 4-6-0 formation?
Paulie is completely right, I often wonder how long does it take to our board (if we have any) to understand that we appointed a crap manager.
Donadoni or Guidolin would finally bring a bit of footballing knowledge in the squad after years of amateurs tactics by PL and TS, and if an old school coach like Ranieri is third in the table they could shine like new Pep Guardiolas in the low level of this Premier League.
Paulie is completely right, I often wonder how long does it take to our board (if we have any) to understand that we appointed a crap manager.
Donadoni or Guidolin would finally bring a bit of footballing knowledge in the squad after years of amateurs tactics by PL and TS, and if an old school coach like Ranieri is third in the table they could shine like new Pep Guardiolas in the low level of this Premier League.
Ranieri is third because he hasn't had to do anything with Leicester. When they start dropping points more consistently and he has to impose his style they'll come unstuck. I'm not sold a donadoni et al. Having a style that works in a league that you know and a tempo you prepare for doesn't mean it will translate to a foreign league and a different style of play.
british manager for me or a proven manager from a similar style league.
Paulie is completely right, I often wonder how long does it take to our board (if we have any) to understand that we appointed a crap manager.
Donadoni or Guidolin would finally bring a bit of footballing knowledge in the squad after years of amateurs tactics by PL and TS, and if an old school coach like Ranieri is third in the table they could shine like new Pep Guardiolas in the low level of this Premier League.
Ranieri is third because he hasn't had to do anything with Leicester. When they start dropping points more consistently and he has to impose his style they'll come unstuck. I'm not sold a donadoni et al. Having a style that works in a league that you know and a tempo you prepare for doesn't mean it will translate to a foreign league and a different style of play.
british manager for me or a proven manager from a similar style league.
Paulie is completely right, I often wonder how long does it take to our board (if we have any) to understand that we appointed a crap manager.
Donadoni or Guidolin would finally bring a bit of footballing knowledge in the squad after years of amateurs tactics by PL and TS, and if an old school coach like Ranieri is third in the table they could shine like new Pep Guardiolas in the low level of this Premier League.
Paulie is completely right, I often wonder how long does it take to our board (if we have any) to understand that we appointed a crap manager.
Donadoni or Guidolin would finally bring a bit of footballing knowledge in the squad after years of amateurs tactics by PL and TS, and if an old school coach like Ranieri is third in the table they could shine like new Pep Guardiolas in the low level of this Premier League.
Ranieri is third because he hasn't had to do anything with Leicester. When they start dropping points more consistently and he has to impose his style they'll come unstuck. I'm not sold a donadoni et al. Having a style that works in a league that you know and a tempo you prepare for doesn't mean it will translate to a foreign league and a different style of play.
british manager for me or a proven manager from a similar style league.
This is the logic which has got us into the mess we're in. Well, actually not quite, because to be fair to you I imagine you'd take someone from the Bundesliga, whereas our genius board thinks 'EPL or nada'.
Paulie is completely right, I often wonder how long does it take to our board (if we have any) to understand that we appointed a crap manager.
Donadoni or Guidolin would finally bring a bit of footballing knowledge in the squad after years of amateurs tactics by PL and TS, and if an old school coach like Ranieri is third in the table they could shine like new Pep Guardiolas in the low level of this Premier League.
Ranieri is third because he hasn't had to do anything with Leicester. When they start dropping points more consistently and he has to impose his style they'll come unstuck. I'm not sold a donadoni et al. Having a style that works in a league that you know and a tempo you prepare for doesn't mean it will translate to a foreign league and a different style of play.
british manager for me or a proven manager from a similar style league.
This is the logic which has got us into the mess we're in. Well, actually not quite, because to be fair to you I imagine you'd take someone from the Bundesliga, whereas our genius board thinks 'EPL or nada'.
Bundesliga, Holland, Nordic countries (to a point) etc etc
You're missing the point, it's the thinking.
Titanic sank on its maiden voyage though.
Titanic sank on its maiden voyage though.
2 games to save job
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tim-sherwood-given-two-games-6610295
2 games to save jobNot a single quote in there.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tim-sherwood-given-two-games-6610295
2 games to save jobNot a single quote in there.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tim-sherwood-given-two-games-6610295
Tim Sherwood is fighting to save his job and ready to get ruthless with Aston Villa's summer signings as he prepares for potentially pivotal matches against Chelsea and Swansea City.
Less than five months after leading the club to the FA Cup final, Sherwood has lost six of the last seven Premier League games and is under mounting pressure to convince the club's hierarchy he can mastermind a revival in form.
Sherwood met with chief executive Tom Fox on Tuesday at the club’s training ground to discuss recent results and the Villa board have argued the squad should be doing better after such a substantial overhaul of 12 new players arriving in the summer.
But despite such a drastic reshaping of the squad, Villa appear on course for another relegation battle and the manager is understood to be growing increasingly concerned that some of those signings lack the qualities for English football.
Villa only escaped the drop last season by three points and then sold key players Christian Benteke and Fabian Delph, spending just £7million net to strengthen the squad.
Sherwood was keen to recruit proven Premier League players, including Esteban Cambiasso and Aaron Lennon, yet the club went for youngsters from overseas with sell-on potential in a strategy spearheaded by head of recruitment Paddy Reilly and newly appointed sporting director Hendrik Almstadt.
But the 46-year-old is now prepared to take many of those new recruits out of the firing line in a desperate bid to save his job.
Villa will face Chelsea at Stamford Bridge next weekend, followed by what already looks a crucial home game against Swansea, and Sherwood is set to drastically shake up his squad with the likes of Jack Grealish, Carles Gil and even Charles N’Zogbia poised for recalls.
N'Zogbia, 29, infuriated Villa fans last week with a tweet about his earnings but will be in contention for a starting place when he returns to full fitness. He has not played since the 4-0 defeat to Arsenal in the FA Cup Final at Wembley.
Adama Traore, the £7million summer signing from Barcelona, could also be involved after impressing in two behind-closed-doors friendlies this week.
Sherwood also faces former club Tottenham Hotspur and Manchester City in the next four weeks and is determined to return to the attacking principles that enabled Villa to survive last season.
He said: “I like to try to win enough games rather than going out there not to be beaten.
“I’ve done that a few times and you end up getting beaten anyway so I’d rather go to win, but I need to find a team of players who can go to places like Stamford Bridge and not be scared, put up a fight and be brave on the pitch.
“The games are ticking off and we need to start winning. Now I have to find the ingredients and put them on the pitch at the right time against the right opposition and try to get a spark.”
Villa’s 1-0 home defeat to Stoke City last Saturday left them third bottom and already four points behind 17th placed West Bromwich Albion.
did someone off here write that2 games to save jobNot a single quote in there.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tim-sherwood-given-two-games-6610295
Swansea last season at B6 I thought were arguably one of the best footballing sides I'd seen that season. Not sure if they're on the same level this season so a chance for us if we have a full strength team to pick from and they are all played in position.live the dream silhill
Still we are a charity for away teams playing at home so certainly a tipping point game.
Swansea last season at B6 I thought were arguably one of the best footballing sides I'd seen that season. Not sure if they're on the same level this season so a chance for us if we have a full strength team to pick from and they are all played in position.
Telegraph are spot on highlighting the pathetic net spend figure.We've been through this so many times now.
pathetic net spend
But that's not altering theOf course it's pathetic .Quote from: silhilvillapathetic net spend
Which takes you back to integrating even more players than we're already struggling to.But that's not altering theOf course it's pathetic .Quote from: silhilvillapathetic net spend
We needed to spend £5-7m on a decent keeper
£5m odd on a new Vlaar
Westwood needed replacement with a decent DCM such as Nzonzi £8m
We needed a winger - Townsend or Lennon £8-10m
That's a few areas
Well for starters I'd have spent £15m on a Charlie Austin / Danny Ings instead of the same amount on Ayew & Gestede.
How often do you get quotes before a manager is sacked? Who's actually going to come out and say, 'yeah he's sacked if he doesn't win in the next couple of games'. I hope it's correct though, because if we don't win one of the next two it's been a cataclysmic first quarter of the season.
Well you apply the same principles . Less players of better quality with a net spend nearer £25m . The club have done it on the cheap again and are now paying for it. Stupidity.Well for starters I'd have spent £15m on a Charlie Austin / Danny Ings instead of the same amount on Ayew & Gestede.
But that's absolutely not the point you are making.
You said 7m is a pathetic net spend (and I probably agree with you on that).
When you get challenged on it, you point out two signings you'd have made differently. So you'd have spent 15m on Charlie or Austin or Danny Ings rather than on Ayew plus Gestede.
How the fuck does that even affect net spend?
Well you apply the same principles . Less players of better quality with a net spend nearer £25m . The club have done it on the cheap again and are now paying for it. Stupidity.Well for starters I'd have spent £15m on a Charlie Austin / Danny Ings instead of the same amount on Ayew & Gestede.
But that's absolutely not the point you are making.
You said 7m is a pathetic net spend (and I probably agree with you on that).
When you get challenged on it, you point out two signings you'd have made differently. So you'd have spent 15m on Charlie or Austin or Danny Ings rather than on Ayew plus Gestede.
How the fuck does that even affect net spend?
Ok I will keep it simple for you. We needed a gross spend minimum of £65m in the summer. That's the budget that should have been set and spent . On quality, proven quality, not gambles and dice throwing,
Well you apply the same principles . Less players of better quality with a net spend nearer £25m . The club have done it on the cheap again and are now paying for it. Stupidity.Well for starters I'd have spent £15m on a Charlie Austin / Danny Ings instead of the same amount on Ayew & Gestede.
But that's absolutely not the point you are making.
You said 7m is a pathetic net spend (and I probably agree with you on that).
When you get challenged on it, you point out two signings you'd have made differently. So you'd have spent 15m on Charlie or Austin or Danny Ings rather than on Ayew plus Gestede.
How the fuck does that even affect net spend?
I can never understand why we have this "We need to spend £x" argument. You don't need to spend a single penny if the deals you do are astute enough.
The Telegraph story reports the meeting as fact and clearly includes Sherwood's response/justification off-the-record. Sherwood is positioning to defend himself by saying these weren't his signings, but I seem to recall him taking credit for them at the time.
Edit: I'd also like to know which summer signings he'll get 'ruthless' with. Which have been given a chance but have underperformed? The issue seems less the underperformance of new signings, and more the lack of continuity in the line-up and strategy.
I agree these stories aren't just coincidental - something is happening. Good.
The Telegraph story reports the meeting as fact and clearly includes Sherwood's response/justification off-the-record. Sherwood is positioning to defend himself by saying these weren't his signings, but I seem to recall him taking credit for them at the time.
Edit: I'd also like to know which summer signings he'll get 'ruthless' with. Which have been given a chance but have underperformed? The issue seems less the underperformance of new signings, and more the lack of continuity in the line-up and strategy.
I agree these stories aren't just coincidental - something is happening. Good.
The new players argument is bobbins anyway, as Amavi, Veretout, Traore, Gana and Richards all look good signings. The biggest let downs so far have been Ayew, who you could well argue with the right tactics and a bit of belief looks to be a lot better than say Gabby as a support striker, Gestede who despite goals has struggled with his all round game and Lescott who has been awful.
I reckon Rodgers, much as I loathe him, would actually get this squad playing some bloody decent football.
I can never understand why we have this "We need to spend £x" argument. You don't need to spend a single penny if the deals you do are astute enough.
I would not be surprised if the moment Rodgers was sacked Reilly was on to him.
did someone off here write that2 games to save jobNot a single quote in there.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tim-sherwood-given-two-games-6610295
it wouldn't surprise me
Before we appointed Lambert didn't they try - reportedly - to get Rodgers?
You're missing the point, it's the thinking.Come on Dave don't expect the poster to be linked with "thinking".
I said GROSS of £65m so roughly another £18m on top of the measily £7m net we spent. That would of got us a decent proven striker, a RB and a GK.Ok I will keep it simple for you. We needed a gross spend minimum of £65m in the summer. That's the budget that should have been set and spent . On quality, proven quality, not gambles and dice throwing,
You think we should have had a net spend of 65m despite getting 40m for Benteke and Delph?
So a spend of 105m?
Honestly, do you really believe some of the shit you come out with? I find it hard to believe. It's like you've spent the last 24 hours going around from thread to thread posting the biggest load of nonsense you can come up with.
Once more. I was pointing out that net spend arguments are a totally different thing to "should have bought this player for the same price as that one". Still, feel free to bang on about something entirely different.
Does anyone know anything about the track record of Paddy Reilly and the sporting director?Almstad was at Arsenal and probably a good mate of Fox. At Arsensl he spent or signed next to nothing.
For the last couple of years net spend has been less of a problem than the quality of management and coaching.
I'm not too unhappy with the business done this summer, allthough it could have been better. For a club that only narrowly escaped relegation last season and subsequently lost its two best players, I would probably have expected less risky signings (ie, unspectacular but proven PL-standard players as opposed to more adventurous signings that may or may not adapt to the league).
For the last couple of years net spend has been less of a problem than the quality of management and coaching.
I'm not too unhappy with the business done this summer, allthough it could have been better. For a club that only narrowly escaped relegation last season and subsequently lost its two best players, I would probably have expected less risky signings (ie, unspectacular but proven PL-standard players as opposed to more adventurous signings that may or may not adapt to the league).
The Telegraph story reports the meeting as fact and clearly includes Sherwood's response/justification off-the-record. Sherwood is positioning to defend himself by saying these weren't his signings, but I seem to recall him taking credit for them at the time.
Edit: I'd also like to know which summer signings he'll get 'ruthless' with. Which have been given a chance but have underperformed? The issue seems less the underperformance of new signings, and more the lack of continuity in the line-up and strategy.
I agree these stories aren't just coincidental - something is happening. Good.
Well, I'm not arguing that we should have signed players purely based on the criteria of whether they had PL experience or not, and ignoring attributes such as fitness, quality and motivation. In that case I would have been claiming that it is a damn shame that we missed out on Adebayor, but I'm not.
The Rodgers talk concerns me.
He hardly flourished at Liverpool, and they appear to have a similar player acquisition method to us, except he had vastly superior financial resources to hand. How is he going to live with the same thing at the Villa, with lesser players?
Other than that, he comes across as a sort of dull David Brent and speaks a lot of management cliche bollocks.
I think, to be fair to Sherwood, Perce, he has a plan.I think he wanted a more mobile CF than Gestade, hence our links with Embolo, and Islam, and a better CH, linked with a good SAmerican, and the guy from Monaco, but he wasn't given that amount.
If i'm honest, i'm not bothered if Sherwood stays or goes, but not Rodgers, very overrated imo.
I don't agree that PL experience is absolutely immaterial. If you sign a player without PL experience, there is a higher risk that he won't adapt to the league, the country etc, or at least will take some time to adapt. In the meantime, performances will be uneven.
The point I was trying to make is that Villa is a team that finished 17th last season (ie, was almost relegated) and subsequently lost its two best players. In such a situation it's not unreasonable to make risk mitigation a priority, even at the cost of long term prosperity. One such risk mitigating measure might be to sign unspectacular players with PL experience who is likely to need little time adapting to the team. As opposed to more talented players who need time to adapt while the team cements a place in the relegation zone.
I guess we're talking in circles here, but I'm sure that's exactly the logic behind what QPR and Hull did, to solidify their positions by signing what were allegedly "risk mitigating" players. The argument just feels to me like something that gets parroted because it seems like it should make sense, not because there's undeniable evidence to support it actually working out in practice.
There's no smoke without fire - I'm starting to think he'll get the boot.
For the last couple of years net spend has been less of a problem than the quality of management and coaching.
I'm not too unhappy with the business done this summer, allthough it could have been better. For a club that only narrowly escaped relegation last season and subsequently lost its two best players, I would probably have expected less risky signings (ie, unspectacular but proven PL-standard players as opposed to more adventurous signings that may or may not adapt to the league).
I think you can cast doubt with proven PL-standard players argument once you consider that QPR and Hull who did get relegated signed plenty of them. QPR signed Fer, Rio, Caulker, Sandro and Mutch; Hull signed Snodgrass (albeit he was injured), two Spurs rejects in Livermore and Dawson, and Diame.
There's no smoke without fire - I'm starting to think he'll get the boot.
Me too
I tend to think the press talk is true, and he will be going unless there is significant improvement, and I don't just mean a point or two in the next few matches
There's no smoke without fire - I'm starting to think he'll get the boot.
Me too
I tend to think the press talk is true, and he will be going unless there is significant improvement, and I don't just mean a point or two in the next few matches
There's no smoke without fire - I'm starting to think he'll get the boot.
There's no smoke without fire - I'm starting to think he'll get the boot.
Well apparently the team sheet was leaked before the blues game so maybe someone at the club is indeed careless with information.
I think the 'smoke' in this instance is the mainstream media 'stories' in the Mirror and Telegraph.There's no smoke without fire - I'm starting to think he'll get the boot.
Me too
I tend to think the press talk is true, and he will be going unless there is significant improvement, and I don't just mean a point or two in the next few matches
I think there probably is something in this but these stories, 2 more games gets us to 10 played and if it is still only 1 won and no obvious improvement then there is no hiding place.
I do though have an issue with the 'no smoke without fire line' as you only need to have a passing acquaintance with the Internet to know that the smoke to fire ratio is 10000000000:1.
There's no smoke without fire - I'm starting to think he'll get the boot.
Me too
I tend to think the press talk is true, and he will be going unless there is significant improvement, and I don't just mean a point or two in the next few matches
I think there probably is something in this but these stories, 2 more games gets us to 10 played and if it is still only 1 won and no obvious improvement then there is no hiding place.
I do though have an issue with the 'no smoke without fire line' as you only need to have a passing acquaintance with the Internet to know that the smoke to fire ratio is 10000000000:1.
I suspect Sherwood has been told he has two games to get us out of the relegation zone - he may have a clause too that enables us to sack him with less compensation if we are in the bottom three.
I'd be ok with Rodgers, but would really like to see Bielsa grab the club by the throat and shake us out of our nightmare.
Rodgers had a fair amount of stick on here during his time at Liverpool and now he's out of work, it seems he's a decent manager. I don't get it.You could call it revisionist desperation, or desperate revisionism maybe. Whatever, the fact is we're in the shit and the fear we all share is that our situation could be a lot worse quite soon, so it's understandable.
Would Rodgers bring Gary Mac with him?
McAllister has yet to complete his coaching badges, a process rudely interrupted in 2011 when he was replaced as caretaker boss at Villa Park by Alex McLeish, but they’re back on his radar.
He said: “I’ve not done the Pro Licence. I was actually doing my A Licence at Inverclyde when I got the text from Paul Faulkner at Villa telling me my services were no longer required.
“I think I just packed my bags and went home at that point.
“You get a wee bit disillusioned with the game, things like that happening.
“I know how the game works but things can be done better than that.”
Rodgers had a fair amount of stick on here during his time at Liverpool and now he's out of work, it seems he's a decent manager. I don't get it.You could call it revisionist desperation, or desperate revisionism maybe. Whatever, the fact is we're in the shit and the fear we all share is that our situation could be a lot worse quite soon, so it's understandable.
I don't think Rodgers is anything special but Im sure he's bettter than what we have at the moment, so I'd take him. However I'm not so sure he'd join us - at least not for a while. I can well imagine he's monitoring the Chelsea situation and if that doesn't improve soon, hoping they'll give Jose the push. If that happened then Rodgers would certainly consider he'd be in with a good chance of taking over there, given the fact that he worked there previously and also because there aren't that many obvious and unemployed managers of the calibre Chelsea would want.
Has Sherwood done his coaching badges?
Wonder if it's like every year when GCSE and A Level results are announced and loads of old school coaches say how it's getting easier to pass each year.
Rodgers had a fair amount of stick on here during his time at Liverpool and now he's out of work, it seems he's a decent manager. I don't get it.You could call it revisionist desperation, or desperate revisionism maybe. Whatever, the fact is we're in the shit and the fear we all share is that our situation could be a lot worse quite soon, so it's understandable.
I don't think Rodgers is anything special but Im sure he's bettter than what we have at the moment, so I'd take him. However I'm not so sure he'd join us - at least not for a while. I can well imagine he's monitoring the Chelsea situation and if that doesn't improve soon, hoping they'll give Jose the push. If that happened then Rodgers would certainly consider he'd be in with a good chance of taking over there, given the fact that he worked there previously and also because there aren't that many obvious and unemployed managers of the calibre Chelsea would want.
I would have more chance of the Chelsea job than Rogers has now
...run with a caretaker manager for a week or so .Who?
Kevin Macdonald...run with a caretaker manager for a week or so .Who?
Kevin Macdonald...run with a caretaker manager for a week or so .Who?
Just for a game maybe two. You'd like to think we have our targets lined up.Kevin Macdonald...run with a caretaker manager for a week or so .Who?
That did not go well last time.
I suspect Sherwood has been told he has two games to get us out of the relegation zone - he may have a clause too that enables us to sack him with less compensation if we are in the bottom three.
I'd be ok with Rodgers, but would really like to see Bielsa grab the club by the throat and shake us out of our nightmare.
I agree about Rodgers. He would probably be the first 'proper' manager we have had since MON.
Maybe not, but I bet you didn't think Chelsea would appoint Avram Grant, Roberto DiMatteo or Rafa Benitez either!Rodgers had a fair amount of stick on here during his time at Liverpool and now he's out of work, it seems he's a decent manager. I don't get it.You could call it revisionist desperation, or desperate revisionism maybe. Whatever, the fact is we're in the shit and the fear we all share is that our situation could be a lot worse quite soon, so it's understandable.
I don't think Rodgers is anything special but Im sure he's bettter than what we have at the moment, so I'd take him. However I'm not so sure he'd join us - at least not for a while. I can well imagine he's monitoring the Chelsea situation and if that doesn't improve soon, hoping they'll give Jose the push. If that happened then Rodgers would certainly consider he'd be in with a good chance of taking over there, given the fact that he worked there previously and also because there aren't that many obvious and unemployed managers of the calibre Chelsea would want.
I would have more chance of the Chelsea job than Rogers has now
Yep, I can't for the life of me see Rodgers replacing Mourinho.
I can never understand why we have this "We need to spend £x" argument. You don't need to spend a single penny if the deals you do are astute enough.
Exactly, a well run club should, over a reasonable number of seasons, pretty much break even, there's been loads of comments from people about Swansea and Southampton, 2 clubs that have spent very little over the last 2-3 seasons. The sky-fueled obsession with how much teams are spending (as if it's some indicator of the quality of the league) has completely warped the perspective of what a transfer window is about.
Who would want the job other than those currently out of work? Sure, plenty of up and comers but that has been tried before and got us nowhere. Villa need to act big if they want to be big/improve dramatically.
Can the two Sherwood threads be merged?
One has a poll, but otherwise aren't they pretty much the same?
Can the two Sherwood threads be merged?ive just been merged and I agree
One has a poll, but otherwise aren't they pretty much the same?
oh so it was youCan the two Sherwood threads be merged?
One has a poll, but otherwise aren't they pretty much the same?
I was thinking that a few days ago - but I think both have gone too far now.
If we merge them then it'll arrange the whole thing chronologically. So a quick reply on one thread might now have four other arguments about a result or (more likely) a fish based punathon interspersed.
So I reckon they're probably best left separate at this stage.
oh so it was youCan the two Sherwood threads be merged?
One has a poll, but otherwise aren't they pretty much the same?
I was thinking that a few days ago - but I think both have gone too far now.
If we merge them then it'll arrange the whole thing chronologically. So a quick reply on one thread might now have four other arguments about a result or (more likely) a fish based punathon interspersed.
So I reckon they're probably best left separate at this stage.
Who would want the job other than those currently out of work? Sure, plenty of up and comers but that has been tried before and got us nowhere. Villa need to act big if they want to be big/improve dramatically.
Luckily there are lots of good mangers out of work at the moment. Bielsa, Prandelli and even Rodgers were way beyond what we could have imagined when we appointed Sherwood.
But he is another Lambert. Half a dozen managerial jobs and has only excelled at one club in my opinion. Same as Lambert.
shifting my private helloh so it was youCan the two Sherwood threads be merged?
One has a poll, but otherwise aren't they pretty much the same?
I was thinking that a few days ago - but I think both have gone too far now.
If we merge them then it'll arrange the whole thing chronologically. So a quick reply on one thread might now have four other arguments about a result or (more likely) a fish based punathon interspersed.
So I reckon they're probably best left separate at this stage.
What was?
But he is another Lambert. Half a dozen managerial jobs and has only excelled at one club in my opinion. Same as Lambert.
Didn't Lambert excel at Wycombe, Colchester and Norwich?
Who would want the job other than those currently out of work? Sure, plenty of up and comers but that has been tried before and got us nowhere. Villa need to act big if they want to be big/improve dramatically.
Luckily there are lots of good mangers out of work at the moment. Bielsa, Prandelli and even Rodgers were way beyond what we could have imagined when we appointed Sherwood.
But he is another Lambert. Half a dozen managerial jobs and has only excelled at one club in my opinion. Same as Lambert.
Didn't Lambert excel at Wycombe, Colchester and Norwich?
shifting my private helloh so it was youCan the two Sherwood threads be merged?
One has a poll, but otherwise aren't they pretty much the same?
I was thinking that a few days ago - but I think both have gone too far now.
If we merge them then it'll arrange the whole thing chronologically. So a quick reply on one thread might now have four other arguments about a result or (more likely) a fish based punathon interspersed.
So I reckon they're probably best left separate at this stage.
What was?
okshifting my private helloh so it was youCan the two Sherwood threads be merged?
One has a poll, but otherwise aren't they pretty much the same?
I was thinking that a few days ago - but I think both have gone too far now.
If we merge them then it'll arrange the whole thing chronologically. So a quick reply on one thread might now have four other arguments about a result or (more likely) a fish based punathon interspersed.
So I reckon they're probably best left separate at this stage.
What was?
Yes. It fits perfectly well in the thread that it was merged into. Is that an issue? You're hardly being silenced. It's there for people to see and reply to if they want.
Who would want the job other than those currently out of work? Sure, plenty of up and comers but that has been tried before and got us nowhere. Villa need to act big if they want to be big/improve dramatically.
Luckily there are lots of good mangers out of work at the moment. Bielsa, Prandelli and even Rodgers were way beyond what we could have imagined when we appointed Sherwood.
For the last couple of years net spend has been less of a problem than the quality of management and coaching.
I'm not too unhappy with the business done this summer, allthough it could have been better. For a club that only narrowly escaped relegation last season and subsequently lost its two best players, I would probably have expected less risky signings (ie, unspectacular but proven PL-standard players as opposed to more adventurous signings that may or may not adapt to the league).
I think you can cast doubt with proven PL-standard players argument once you consider that QPR and Hull who did get relegated signed plenty of them. QPR signed Fer, Rio, Caulker, Sandro and Mutch; Hull signed Snodgrass (albeit he was injured), two Spurs rejects in Livermore and Dawson, and Diame.
I've been saying for a while you can prove whatever point you want by selecting players or managers that back up your point of view and ignoring the ones that don't
okshifting my private helloh so it was youCan the two Sherwood threads be merged?
One has a poll, but otherwise aren't they pretty much the same?
I was thinking that a few days ago - but I think both have gone too far now.
If we merge them then it'll arrange the whole thing chronologically. So a quick reply on one thread might now have four other arguments about a result or (more likely) a fish based punathon interspersed.
So I reckon they're probably best left separate at this stage.
What was?
Yes. It fits perfectly well in the thread that it was merged into. Is that an issue? You're hardly being silenced. It's there for people to see and reply to if they want.
But he is another Lambert. Half a dozen managerial jobs and has only excelled at one club in my opinion. Same as Lambert.
Didn't Lambert excel at Wycombe, Colchester and Norwich?
Not really. One season at Colchester, when they finished mid table.
agreed but aren't we allokshifting my private helloh so it was youCan the two Sherwood threads be merged?
One has a poll, but otherwise aren't they pretty much the same?
I was thinking that a few days ago - but I think both have gone too far now.
If we merge them then it'll arrange the whole thing chronologically. So a quick reply on one thread might now have four other arguments about a result or (more likely) a fish based punathon interspersed.
So I reckon they're probably best left separate at this stage.
What was?
Yes. It fits perfectly well in the thread that it was merged into. Is that an issue? You're hardly being silenced. It's there for people to see and reply to if they want.
not so private
But he is another Lambert. Half a dozen managerial jobs and has only excelled at one club in my opinion. Same as Lambert.
Didn't Lambert excel at Wycombe, Colchester and Norwich?
Not really. One season at Colchester, when they finished mid table.
I can't imagine what kind of good the two game story is going to do for either Sherwoods or team morale. On that basis alone why prolong the inevitable.
Prandelli as new manager, for no other reasons than it would be different and unknown and so it would be exciting.
It couldn't be any worse?
Prandelli as new manager, for no other reasons than it would be different and unknown and so it would be exciting.
It couldn't be any worse?
Don't tempt fate.
If we are to replace the manager, I would like to see us go for Frank de Boer. I think we need someone from outside the current English leagues. He may feel that he has gone as far as he can with Ajax and wants a go in the EPL.
Plus points for me are experience, understands bringing foreign players into a club (something we need to do to get value for money), part of a set up that is constantly trawling the world for new up and coming players and he has been successful , in spite of losing his best players and having to rebuild his teams.
Asking out of ignorance rather than rhetorical challenge, but has Prandelli ever done anything as a manager?
The thing that got me about the Stoke match was the selection looked like giving up before the start. If you want to be solid there are better ways to approach it than the way he did. We looked lifeless both on and off the pitch.
I hear what you say Kuwait and as always place great value on your views. To me what does not add up is the precipitous lapse by Sherwood into what on the surface of it is a media blunder. Blunders abound in his approach to football but he has played the media to his own advantage with flawless expertise and has his feet on the well trodden and proven path to a football fortune used by the likes of Redknapp. Get the right side of the media and your failures will be forgotten. Create celebrity status for yourself and you will be judged by show business standards, not sporting ones.Nail on the head, Brian. I dont have inside knowledge of the workings of the football press but these stories do not generally appear out of nowhere. Football journos will have had a tip off or a leak but the fact that neither Sherwood or the club have done anything (yet) to disscredit this story lead me to believe there is grounding in it. There are no direct quotes from anyone so no breach of contracts but i would imagine that if these cards have been left on the table, TS will be feeling very hard done by. His agent will now be feeding this into the mainstream media to protect his client.
At this point in the season to declare that none of the mess is his fault, to me looks completely premeditated. It might be to protect what MON called "his brand" but I suspect that it is more specific than that. We shall see. Sooner rather than later I hope.
When you start to throw your work associates and supervisors under the bus your time is coming to an end. By saying the signings weren't all his he's openly admitting he wasn't in agreement with the direction the club took in the summer. That he has been operating against his will. By exposing it publicly only serves to drive a further wedge between himself and the club. As he looks to future career opportunities he'd be well served in the knowledge that potential new employers may not be enamoured if their decisions get called out in public.
When you start to throw your work associates and supervisors under the bus your time is coming to an end. By saying the signings weren't all his he's openly admitting he wasn't in agreement with the direction the club took in the summer. That he has been operating against his will. By exposing it publicly only serves to drive a further wedge between himself and the club. As he looks to future career opportunities he'd be well served in the knowledge that potential new employers may not be enamoured if their decisions get called out in public.
If I were Fox/Lerner I'd be pretty furious at his comments
When you start to throw your work associates and supervisors under the bus your time is coming to an end. By saying the signings weren't all his he's openly admitting he wasn't in agreement with the direction the club took in the summer. That he has been operating against his will. By exposing it publicly only serves to drive a further wedge between himself and the club. As he looks to future career opportunities he'd be well served in the knowledge that potential new employers may not be enamoured if their decisions get called out in public.
If I were Fox/Lerner I'd be pretty furious at his comments
I agree with TV re the pointing of fingers at other people usually means the end.
Two things puzzle me about the player recruitment. No, actually, three things.
1. I've been impressed by the signings. The signings are not the problem. For me, it is the manager who doesn't look up to it, not the signings.
2. In the summer he said he had had the final word. This week he has said completely the opposite.
3. If the players he said he wanted to sign - Adebayor, Townsend etc - really were the names he wanted then, frankly, I am just glad it wasn't him choosing the players.
And I think we are 7 days away from beginning our search for a new manager.
Fear not, as soon as the new manager sorts out the team and gets them playing Sherwood will be shouting from the roof tops about how he signed all those players. Taking the credit for Harry Kane despite him being out on loan for almost all the time Sherwood was at Spurs tells you all you need to know about his ego.
When you start to throw your work associates and supervisors under the bus your time is coming to an end. By saying the signings weren't all his he's openly admitting he wasn't in agreement with the direction the club took in the summer. That he has been operating against his will. By exposing it publicly only serves to drive a further wedge between himself and the club. As he looks to future career opportunities he'd be well served in the knowledge that potential new employers may not be enamoured if their decisions get called out in public.
If I were Fox/Lerner I'd be pretty furious at his comments
I agree with TV re the pointing of fingers at other people usually means the end.
Two things puzzle me about the player recruitment. No, actually, three things.
1. I've been impressed by the signings. The signings are not the problem. For me, it is the manager who doesn't look up to it, not the signings.
2. In the summer he said he had had the final word. This week he has said completely the opposite.
3. If the players he said he wanted to sign - Adebayor, Townsend etc - really were the names he wanted then, frankly, I am just glad it wasn't him choosing the players.
When you start to throw your work associates and supervisors under the bus your time is coming to an end. By saying the signings weren't all his he's openly admitting he wasn't in agreement with the direction the club took in the summer. That he has been operating against his will. By exposing it publicly only serves to drive a further wedge between himself and the club. As he looks to future career opportunities he'd be well served in the knowledge that potential new employers may not be enamoured if their decisions get called out in public.
If I were Fox/Lerner I'd be pretty furious at his comments
I agree with TV re the pointing of fingers at other people usually means the end.
Two things puzzle me about the player recruitment. No, actually, three things.
1. I've been impressed by the signings. The signings are not the problem. For me, it is the manager who doesn't look up to it, not the signings.
2. In the summer he said he had had the final word. This week he has said completely the opposite.
3. If the players he said he wanted to sign - Adebayor, Townsend etc - really were the names he wanted then, frankly, I am just glad it wasn't him choosing the players.
All of the Above.
Time for him to be moved on.
And I think we are 7 days away from beginning our search for a new manager.
I agree, I think we could see him gone by Saturday evening, it's definitely, in my opinion, a matter of when not if, even an unlikely victory over Chelsea would only be delaying things for a few weeks.
Fear not, as soon as the new manager sorts out the team and gets them playing Sherwood will be shouting from the roof tops about how he signed all those players. Taking the credit for Harry Kane despite him being out on loan for almost all the time Sherwood was at Spurs tells you all you need to know about his ego.
there will be a story how the Chairman wanted to sell Benteke and Tim managed to err stop oh wait no he didnt oh well never mind :-\
Rodgers fails at Liverpool so gets the Chelsea Job, brilliant, you cant make this stuff up. :-*Rodgers had a fair amount of stick on here during his time at Liverpool and now he's out of work, it seems he's a decent manager. I don't get it.You could call it revisionist desperation, or desperate revisionism maybe. Whatever, the fact is we're in the shit and the fear we all share is that our situation could be a lot worse quite soon, so it's understandable.
I don't think Rodgers is anything special but Im sure he's bettter than what we have at the moment, so I'd take him. However I'm not so sure he'd join us - at least not for a while. I can well imagine he's monitoring the Chelsea situation and if that doesn't improve soon, hoping they'll give Jose the push. If that happened then Rodgers would certainly consider he'd be in with a good chance of taking over there, given the fact that he worked there previously and also because there aren't that many obvious and unemployed managers of the calibre Chelsea would want.
Rodgers had a fair amount of stick on here during his time at Liverpool and now he's out of work, it seems he's a decent manager. I don't get it.You could call it revisionist desperation, or desperate revisionism maybe. Whatever, the fact is we're in the shit and the fear we all share is that our situation could be a lot worse quite soon, so it's understandable.
I don't think Rodgers is anything special but Im sure he's bettter than what we have at the moment, so I'd take him. However I'm not so sure he'd join us - at least not for a while. I can well imagine he's monitoring the Chelsea situation and if that doesn't improve soon, hoping they'll give Jose the push. If that happened then Rodgers would certainly consider he'd be in with a good chance of taking over there, given the fact that he worked there previously and also because there aren't that many obvious and unemployed managers of the calibre Chelsea would want.
If the 'two game' scenario is true, the sacking is inevitable. Even if he wins one of the games he'll be gone if he gets a bad result later.
Just do it now and get on with the football.
Sorry state of affairs.
When you start to throw your work associates and supervisors under the bus your time is coming to an end. By saying the signings weren't all his he's openly admitting he wasn't in agreement with the direction the club took in the summer. That he has been operating against his will. By exposing it publicly only serves to drive a further wedge between himself and the club. As he looks to future career opportunities he'd be well served in the knowledge that potential new employers may not be enamoured if their decisions get called out in public.
If I were Fox/Lerner I'd be pretty furious at his comments
I agree with TV re the pointing of fingers at other people usually means the end.
Two things puzzle me about the player recruitment. No, actually, three things.
1. I've been impressed by the signings. The signings are not the problem. For me, it is the manager who doesn't look up to it, not the signings.
2. In the summer he said he had had the final word. This week he has said completely the opposite.
3. If the players he said he wanted to sign - Adebayor, Townsend etc - really were the names he wanted then, frankly, I am just glad it wasn't him choosing the players.
All of the Above.
Time for him to be moved on.
I'm a bit lost with this storyI have read this in a few articles from links from this site, but there has not been any actual quotes from who said what. I reckon something has been leaked to the press from within.
Has he actually come out and said he didn't want them, I find that hard to believe if he has
I'm a bit lost with this story
Has he actually come out and said he didn't want them, I find that hard to believe if he has
When you start to throw your work associates and supervisors under the bus your time is coming to an end. By saying the signings weren't all his he's openly admitting he wasn't in agreement with the direction the club took in the summer. That he has been operating against his will. By exposing it publicly only serves to drive a further wedge between himself and the club. As he looks to future career opportunities he'd be well served in the knowledge that potential new employers may not be enamoured if their decisions get called out in public.
If I were Fox/Lerner I'd be pretty furious at his comments
I agree with TV re the pointing of fingers at other people usually means the end.
Two things puzzle me about the player recruitment. No, actually, three things.
1. I've been impressed by the signings. The signings are not the problem. For me, it is the manager who doesn't look up to it, not the signings.
2. In the summer he said he had had the final word. This week he has said completely the opposite.
3. If the players he said he wanted to sign - Adebayor, Townsend etc - really were the names he wanted then, frankly, I am just glad it wasn't him choosing the players.
All of the Above.
Time for him to be moved on.
When you start to throw your work associates and supervisors under the bus your time is coming to an end. By saying the signings weren't all his he's openly admitting he wasn't in agreement with the direction the club took in the summer. That he has been operating against his will. By exposing it publicly only serves to drive a further wedge between himself and the club. As he looks to future career opportunities he'd be well served in the knowledge that potential new employers may not be enamoured if their decisions get called out in public.
Do most believe it's a fait acompli? I keep checking if I missed an announcement that he has gone.
Talk of who to be next manager a tad premature I think. We hardly have a track record of no nonsense in managing managers. I thought we opted for head in the sand approach
I reckon there is a clause 10 games in about the bottom 3 that would let him go early.
...does anyone really expect him to suddenly pull a rabbit out of his arse..
I reckon there is a clause 10 games in about the bottom 3 that would let him go early.
Certainly something like that seems very plausible.
When you start to throw your work associates and supervisors under the bus your time is coming to an end. By saying the signings weren't all his he's openly admitting he wasn't in agreement with the direction the club took in the summer. That he has been operating against his will. By exposing it publicly only serves to drive a further wedge between himself and the club. As he looks to future career opportunities he'd be well served in the knowledge that potential new employers may not be enamoured if their decisions get called out in public.
If I were Fox/Lerner I'd be pretty furious at his comments
I agree with TV re the pointing of fingers at other people usually means the end.
Two things puzzle me about the player recruitment. No, actually, three things.
1. I've been impressed by the signings. The signings are not the problem. For me, it is the manager who doesn't look up to it, not the signings.
2. In the summer he said he had had the final word. This week he has said completely the opposite.
3. If the players he said he wanted to sign - Adebayor, Townsend etc - really were the names he wanted then, frankly, I am just glad it wasn't him choosing the players.
All of the Above.
Time for him to be moved on.
Do you think the absence of Ayew, after his performance v Birmingham City, can be explained by Sherwood being reluctant to play him? If he is having a battle for power then the signings coming in and improving the team does not exactly support his argument. Biting your nose to spite your face comes to mind... He wouldn't be that stupid/stubborn would he?
Sherwood personally pushed for the 24-year-old and fellow forward Rudy Gestede.
Some of Villa’s other foreign arrivals were recommendations from the recruitment team but the boss was keen on Ayew himself after discussing his qualities with talent spotter Paddy Riley.
Say we lose on Saturday (hard to imagine I know) and Albion/Bournemouth win to go 7 points ahead of us. Surely then it's time to pull the plug. That said, no manager worth his salt is going to come here if he needs to win 3 games just to get out of the drop zone.
...does anyone really expect him to suddenly pull a rabbit out of his arse..
That would get him sacked, I reckon.
He'd probably move it into midfield after taking off Gana!...does anyone really expect him to suddenly pull a rabbit out of his arse..
That would get him sacked, I reckon.
Possibly not but shoving it up there in the first place would!
He'd probably move it into midfield after taking off Gana!...does anyone really expect him to suddenly pull a rabbit out of his arse..
That would get him sacked, I reckon.
Possibly not but shoving it up there in the first place would!
Say we lose on Saturday (hard to imagine I know) and Albion/Bournemouth win to go 7 points ahead of us. Surely then it's time to pull the plug. That said, no manager worth his salt is going to come here if he needs to win 3 games just to get out of the drop zone.
Why not? It's October, not March.
He'd probably move it into midfield after taking off Gana!...does anyone really expect him to suddenly pull a rabbit out of his arse..
That would get him sacked, I reckon.
Possibly not but shoving it up there in the first place would!
Very good FMWMU. Personally I'd be hoping mad if he did that.
With a reborn Sunderland playing WBA this weekend and Newcastle home to Norwich there's a very real chance we will be bottom by 6pm Sunday night.
Lettuce see what happens against Chelsea before we talk about sackings.He'd probably move it into midfield after taking off Gana!...does anyone really expect him to suddenly pull a rabbit out of his arse..
That would get him sacked, I reckon.
Possibly not but shoving it up there in the first place would!
Very good FMWMU. Personally I'd be hoping mad if he did that.
Was that a hare-brained attempt to start a pun-a-thon?
With a reborn Sunderland playing WBA this weekend and Newcastle home to Norwich there's a very real chance we will be bottom by 6pm Sunday night.
Probably but we'll have this no mark out of the club in a few weeks and the fight back will begin. If only we took the bold step of attracting a proper manager, get some forward momentum going and get the ground a happy place again.
I really miss enjoying the Villa.
I'm almost the opposite , could never watch non villa games , now I do to see some proper football and entertainment .With a reborn Sunderland playing WBA this weekend and Newcastle home to Norwich there's a very real chance we will be bottom by 6pm Sunday night.
Probably but we'll have this no mark out of the club in a few weeks and the fight back will begin. If only we took the bold step of attracting a proper manager, get some forward momentum going and get the ground a happy place again.
I really miss enjoying the Villa.
I barely watch other football now because it makes me miss watching Villa being decent.
...does anyone really expect him to suddenly pull a rabbit out of his arse..
That would get him sacked, I reckon.
Other Ganges just make me more despondent about how crap we are.The Nile is the one that always upsets me !! :-)
With all the talk of 2 games and the clearly manager peddled stories about the signings, we should stop messing about and just get shot now. Not sure why we are fucking about with it. Just looks like a dead man walking now.
Lettuce see what happens against Chelsea before we talk about sackings.He'd probably move it into midfield after taking off Gana!...does anyone really expect him to suddenly pull a rabbit out of his arse..
That would get him sacked, I reckon.
Possibly not but shoving it up there in the first place would!
Very good FMWMU. Personally I'd be hoping mad if he did that.
Was that a hare-brained attempt to start a pun-a-thon?
If I was Tom Fox, I would have Big Ron, Brian Little and Dennis Mortimer in interview room to interview and help to pick the right man.
Of the two punfests going I would say this is the Tamar.Other Ganges just make me more despondent about how crap we are.The Nile is the one that always upsets me !! :-)
With all the talk of 2 games and the clearly manager peddled stories about the signings, we should stop messing about and just get shot now. Not sure why we are fucking about with it. Just looks like a dead man walking now.
Wonder if he'll give Bunny a go in goal?Lettuce see what happens against Chelsea before we talk about sackings.He'd probably move it into midfield after taking off Gana!...does anyone really expect him to suddenly pull a rabbit out of his arse..
That would get him sacked, I reckon.
Possibly not but shoving it up there in the first place would!
Very good FMWMU. Personally I'd be hoping mad if he did that.
Was that a hare-brained attempt to start a pun-a-thon?
Exactly - slow and steady won the race after all
(Maybe not too slow and steady though)
It's about Tyne the mods did something about these pathetic punfests!Of the two punfests going I would say this is the Tamar.Other Ganges just make me more despondent about how crap we are.The Nile is the one that always upsets me !! :-)
With all the talk of 2 games and the clearly manager peddled stories about the signings, we should stop messing about and just get shot now. Not sure why we are fucking about with it. Just looks like a dead man walking now.
It's about Tyne the mods did something about these pathetic punfests!Of the two punfests going I would say this is the Tamar.Other Ganges just make me more despondent about how crap we are.The Nile is the one that always upsets me !! :-)
With all the talk of 2 games and the clearly manager peddled stories about the signings, we should stop messing about and just get shot now. Not sure why we are fucking about with it. Just looks like a dead man walking now.
It's about Tyne the mods did something about these pathetic punfests!Of the two punfests going I would say this is the Tamar.Other Ganges just make me more despondent about how crap we are.The Nile is the one that always upsets me !! :-)
With all the talk of 2 games and the clearly manager peddled stories about the signings, we should stop messing about and just get shot now. Not sure why we are fucking about with it. Just looks like a dead man walking now.
Yep, Weir all getting a bit bored of these now.
It's about Tyne the mods did something about these pathetic punfests!Of the two punfests going I would say this is the Tamar.Other Ganges just make me more despondent about how crap we are.The Nile is the one that always upsets me !! :-)
With all the talk of 2 games and the clearly manager peddled stories about the signings, we should stop messing about and just get shot now. Not sure why we are fucking about with it. Just looks like a dead man walking now.
Yep, Weir all getting a bit bored of these now.
Speak for yourself, I think they're Amazon.
Does anybody actually buy into this two game rumour? Where did it come from?
His only hope is that he finds a winning formula quickly and Styx with it.
His only hope is that he finds a winning formula quickly and Styx with it.
The semi-final against Liverpool was clearly his finest Stour!
The semi-final against Liverpool was clearly his finest Stour!
you Canal stop now
The semi-final against Liverpool was clearly his finest Stour!
you Canal stop now
Wye should we?
I'm beginning to see why Daniel Levee declined to retain his services.
Someone's already done that pun. Go away and come back Tamar-ro.Dam!
Lambert lost 8-0, EIGHT FUCKING NIL, live on TV and never go the sack
Don't think Sherwood is in any danger yet
If we get Somme Oder Main Mann heim going on Der Spree.
If we get Somme Oder Main Mann heim going on Der Spree.
Avon-derfull collection! You'll Ruhr the day you Cam up with those!
If we get Somme Oder Main Mann heim going on Der Spree.
Avon-derfull collection! You'll Ruhr the day you Cam up with those!
You Kennet be serious
As long as we don't give the job to a wAnker like 'Appy 'Arry as that would be an Arrow straight through the heart.
I hope we don't get severn stuck past us on Saturday as that will have Chavski ouseing confidence for the rest of the season.
I hope we don't get severn stuck past us on Saturday as that will have Chavski ouseing confidence for the rest of the season.
That'll be a bore
Come on, admit it. Some of you have started googling rivers now, haven't you?Shouldn't that be 'gurgling'?
As long as we don't give the job to a wAnker like 'Appy 'Arry as that would be an Arrow straight through the heart.
Id forgotten about Arry. He might take it. Mind you we would be on sky all the time and get another Jordan to add to the ranks.
Come on, admit it. Some of you have started googling rivers now, haven't you?
Can we affjord to pay him off?
So do we sack him or wait to see if he can turn the tide?
So do we sack him or wait to see if he can turn the tide?
If we want to get a top replacement in with plenty of managerial experience we need to move fast before a smaller club beat us to it. Just heard on Talksport that Motherwell want Mark McGhee.
Can't wait towy long or we'll gelt burned.So do we sack him or wait to see if he can turn the tide?
It depends ouse available.
If we want to get a top replacement in with plenty of managerial experience we need to move fast before a smaller club beat us to it. Just heard on Talksport that Motherwell want Mark McGhee.
I was listening to that. Also previously when the presenter said he couldn't see Ancelotti coming to Villa (what?!) but could see him taking Newcastle on because they'd done things in Europe.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.whilst I understand your sentiment, you do yourself refer to 'Lerner's appointments' ... Which sort of undermines the point you're trying to make.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
The appointment of Houllier was indefensible. A guy with a serious heart condition! I remember at the time he was unveiled thinking this was a huge risk and certainly not a long term thing. How could it be? It was madness and reckless in equal measure.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
The appointment of Houllier was indefensible. A guy with a serious heart condition! I remember at the time he was unveiled thinking this was a huge risk and certainly not a long term thing. How could it be? It was madness and reckless in equal measure.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
The appointment of Houllier was indefensible. A guy with a serious heart condition! I remember at the time he was unveiled thinking this was a huge risk and certainly not a long term thing. How could it be? It was madness and reckless in equal measure.
absolute garbage,
he has a heart problem which had been operated on, that doesn't mean he should be thrown onto the scrap heap as your suggesting
you will obviously point to the fact the problem re occured as the proof of how bad the decision was,
but I would point out there are many people who have had serious heart problems who are back in work operating at the highest level and pressure in whatever industry they happen to be in after being treated and operated on
you call it madness and reckless I would call it brave and thoughtful and Villa should have been congratulated to have given Houlier a go given his health history,
it didn't work out so that gives you a platform to write people with heart problems off, but I would rather give them a chance than and at least give them a chance to show what they can do
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
I think there might have been a bit more good will towards houllier if he hadn't wanked off over Liverpool shortly after being appointed, whether or not he had to retire, or if he could've carried on. I thought at the time, he should've maybe moved upstairs in a kind of dof role and they could've given Mcallister a go in the managers job for a season.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
I'll tell you what's boring, pelty. Five straight years of relegation battles. And only one man has presided over them all. But perhaps you can tell us, if it isn't Lerner who chooses the managers, who does? Is it Fox alone - a former commercial officer with limited knowledge of the actual game of football? Are we still writing letters to Sir Alex Ferguson? Which football expert helps us consistently appoint crap managers? Why do we keep on gambling with our Premier League status?
The average life expectancy for someone undergoing that type of heavy-duty surgery is 10 years.
He had the surgery in 2001, so it was the very definition of risk.
I'm glad he pulled through, the first time round and the second time.
But it was idiotic of our board (Lerner) to dish out long-term contracts to someone in that situation.
I liked Houllier. He was blunt and undiplomatic at times, but that wasn't specific to his time with us.
He went to university and started working as a school teacher, originally, and you could see that vaguely academic nature reflected in his managerial style. Exactly the sort of thoughtful profile I would have liked to see us stick with, rather than opting for the good old-fashioned, British up and at 'em, leave-your-brain-at-the-dressing-room door approach.
I liked Houllier. He was blunt and undiplomatic at times, but that wasn't specific to his time with us.
He went to university and started working as a school teacher, originally, and you could see that vaguely academic nature reflected in his managerial style. Exactly the sort of thoughtful profile I would have liked to see us stick with, rather than opting for the good old-fashioned, British up and at 'em, leave-your-brain-at-the-dressing-room door approach.
I agree with Pelty that the managerial appointments in isolation are generally defensible, except for McLeish. Lambert, who now looks like the worst in recent memory, made perfect sense at the time. I would question the lack of consistency and coherent strategy across managers though as I feel that has played a role in the lack of success.
I agree with Pelty that the managerial appointments in isolation are generally defensible, except for McLeish. Lambert, who now looks like the worst in recent memory, made perfect sense at the time. I would question the lack of consistency and coherent strategy across managers though as I feel that has played a role in the lack of success.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
I don't see how the Lambert appointment was shit. It was almost universally well received. That it turned into shit doesn't make it a shit appointment.
I don't see how the Lambert appointment was shit. It was almost universally well received. That it turned into shit doesn't make it a shit appointment.
Agreed, I thought we'd got a man who was capable of picking the team to suit the opposition and being able to make the correct subs, it turned out however to be the complete opposite
I liked Houllier. He was blunt and undiplomatic at times, but that wasn't specific to his time with us.
He went to university and started working as a school teacher, originally, and you could see that vaguely academic nature reflected in his managerial style. Exactly the sort of thoughtful profile I would have liked to see us stick with, rather than opting for the good old-fashioned, British up and at 'em, leave-your-brain-at-the-dressing-room door approach.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
The arrogance of a post like this is astounding. Villa fans have had to endure a lot of shit over the last few years of Lerner's leadership. Christ, we thought Doug was bad but since the initial honeymoon period of the Lerner regime, it's been just as, if not more, trying. Saying Lerner is not to blame is like saying Sepp Blatter is blameless for FIFA's current plight. He's the owner and I'm afraid the blame lies with him.
We've had crap appointment after crap appointment. We've seen our best players leave almost annually. We've seen the amount of money put into the football club decrease to the extent where it is now clear that the aim of the football club is to come 17th each year.
And yet... Those who criticise Lerner are 'nitwits' who waste other people's time? Lerner has wasted a large amount of time and money of the fans who follow Villa with his lackadaisical attitude and bizarre statements. He freely admits he can no longer do the job. For what it's worth, I think Lerner had good intentions but has come up well short of what he promised. With your connections to the club I think you'd be well advised not to tell the fans who have been drained of emotion supporting the club that they are wasting people's time.
It occurs to me that O'Neill got a lot of flak for fucking off when things started to get tough.
But if he had been able to find a buyer, Lerner would have done much the same.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
I'll tell you what's boring, pelty. Five straight years of relegation battles. And only one man has presided over them all. But perhaps you can tell us, if it isn't Lerner who chooses the managers, who does? Is it Fox alone - a former commercial officer with limited knowledge of the actual game of football? Are we still writing letters to Sir Alex Ferguson? Which football expert helps us consistently appoint crap managers? Why do we keep on gambling with our Premier League status?
I don't see how the Lambert appointment was shit. It was almost universally well received. That it turned into shit doesn't make it a shit appointment.
The fault lies in the amount of time it took to dispense of him.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
I'll tell you what's boring, pelty. Five straight years of relegation battles. And only one man has presided over them all. But perhaps you can tell us, if it isn't Lerner who chooses the managers, who does? Is it Fox alone - a former commercial officer with limited knowledge of the actual game of football? Are we still writing letters to Sir Alex Ferguson? Which football expert helps us consistently appoint crap managers? Why do we keep on gambling with our Premier League status?
Well said Jimbo. Perhaps the nitwits might have more of an idea what's going on if our absentee owner made more of an effort to communicate?
Everything about the Lerner early years was class, MON appointment
To add some fairness
When we endured the end of Doug we could only dream of a buyer to be an enthusiastic multi Billionairre. Everything about the Lerner early years was class, MON appointment, investment in club, team and facilities. Local interests and the Acorns deals meant we really did have a bright future. The along came Man Ci£y...
Ok I hear you
But would MON have entertained us if he did not see a sugar daddy ready to support him?
Houllier - Mediocre appointment but wasn't much choice at the time.
McLeish - Utterly bizarre
Lambert - Decent at the time, surprised it went so bad.
Sherwood - SeeHoullierMcLeish
I don't see how the Lambert appointment was shit. It was almost universally well received. That it turned into shit doesn't make it a shit appointment.
I don't think HDE had anything to do with this; and MON would not have joined had ol' Hard-arsed Doug been at the helm.QuoteEverything about the Lerner early years was class, MON appointment
No credit to Ellis for this appointment?
I thought the Lambert appointment was a bad one. His record at Norwich was pretty good, but it was mostly achieved with a front two of Grant Holt and Steve Morison - not exactly the progressive, modern football our rivals were going for.
Let's not forget that the Lambert appointment came directly after managergeddon. We could have appointed a bag of frozen peas and there would have been street parties all over north Birmingham.
At Ajax they call it the club’s “technical heart” and it is staffed by some of the most famous players in their recent history. At Liverpool it is known as the “transfer committee” and includes some who could stroll down Walton Breck Road without fear of being recognised. At Aston Villa they do not yet have a name for those responsible for signing players, but the club’s current situation suggests that, whatever it is they are trying to do, it certainly isn’t working.
Tim Sherwood, the Villa manager, goes into Saturday’s game against Chelsea with the unenviable task of making the club’s brave summer transfer strategy work, safe in the knowledge that it will be him politely ushered out the gates should it fail. As the old managerial saying on player recruitment goes, it is a team effort right up to the moment that the director of football is stood on the kerbside waving goodbye to the manager.
No modern manager can take on the burden of player recruitment alone, in an age when Villa are more likely to sign a player from Lorient or Barcelona B than Chelmsford City from where they once plucked a teenage Nigel Spink. Southampton and Swansea City have led the way in developing recruitment systems which not only acquire new players with the buy-in of managers, but also replace managers themselves with the minimum of fuss or disruption.
At Villa, this summer’s policy of buying almost exclusively young players with the emphasis on potential has so far left them 18th with four points from eight games. Their manager is now obliged to oversee his new charges’ development in the midst of a relegation fight, as well as save his own job– and all this before the clocks have even gone back.
All Villa transfer policy is overseen by the German sporting director Hendrik Almstadt, recruited this summer by chief executive Tom Fox from his former club Arsenal. Almstadt had originally joined Arsenal on the commercial side but his interest in data analytics, scouting and contract management permitted him a change in direction towards player recruitment.
The director of scouting and recruitment Paddy Reilly came back from Liverpool last year for his second spell at Villa and his connection with Randy Lerner, the club’s owner, has proven crucial. The Villa owner has the final sign-off on all transfers and he has endorsed the view that young players, with the potential to be sold at a profit must be a priority.
The club’s stated policy in their summer transfer dealings has been to pursue youth, remorselessly it seemed in the end, testing Sherwood’s credentials as a developer of young footballers to the limit. Lerner has been burned before, and looking around a squad that included the likes of Joe Cole, Philippe Senderos and Charles N’Zogbia he resolved never to be loaded down with the expensive, superannuated players that have been a feature of previous squads.
This summer Villa had a deal agreed with Aaron Lennon, later abandoned in keeping with policy for Adama Traore’s £7 million move from Barcelona. The 19-year-old might yet set the league alight but he could also be playing for a Championship club next season if Villa do not improve quickly. Moves for Esteban Cambiasso, Asmir Begovic, Tom Cleverley and Victor Moses also fell by the wayside as the club pursued their youth-first policy.
Sherwood must accept that he signed up for this ride and having ceded ultimate control of player transfer at the point he was best-placed to demand it – the moment before he signed his contract – will just have to do his best. Yet there will be only one casualty if Villa’s decline continues and the next manager will also be obliged to work with a group of players bought with 2017 in mind, rather than Saturday afternoon at Stamford Bridge.
There is undoubtedly a place in modern football for analysts who can pick their way through the great scree slopes of data now available on the elite game. All successful Premier League clubs are required to cast their net wide for players, with a network of scouts who work to standardised objectives and procedures rather than a proverbial finger in the wind. Yet when it works best, like Southampton, the recruitment team provides Ronald Koeman with a list of options to fill a position, and he makes the final decision.
Without that safety net, mistakes can be made.
Of the 13 players who arrived at Villa this summer, on a net spend of around £7 million, it has been Jordan Veretout, a 22-year-old midfielder signed from Nantes for £8 million, who has looked the furthest off the pace. Many of the others remain works in progress.
There is great potential at Villa, not least with Jack Grealish, the 20-year-old homegrown midfielder and, beyond him, the 17-year-olds Andre Green and Rushian Hepburn-Murphy, the latter of whom has already made his Premier League debut. Lose on Saturday and the likelihood of Sherwood being around to see those three flourish will be that much reduced, although you would not bet against those in the recruitment department emerging unscathed.
Not Tims fault ...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/11932271/If-Tim-Sherwood-is-sacked-those-behind-Aston-Villas-deeply-flawed-transfer-policy-should-pay-too.htmlQuoteAt Ajax they call it the club’s “technical heart” and it is staffed by some of the most famous players in their recent history. At Liverpool it is known as the “transfer committee” and includes some who could stroll down Walton Breck Road without fear of being recognised. At Aston Villa they do not yet have a name for those responsible for signing players, but the club’s current situation suggests that, whatever it is they are trying to do, it certainly isn’t working.
Tim Sherwood, the Villa manager, goes into Saturday’s game against Chelsea with the unenviable task of making the club’s brave summer transfer strategy work, safe in the knowledge that it will be him politely ushered out the gates should it fail. As the old managerial saying on player recruitment goes, it is a team effort right up to the moment that the director of football is stood on the kerbside waving goodbye to the manager.
No modern manager can take on the burden of player recruitment alone, in an age when Villa are more likely to sign a player from Lorient or Barcelona B than Chelmsford City from where they once plucked a teenage Nigel Spink. Southampton and Swansea City have led the way in developing recruitment systems which not only acquire new players with the buy-in of managers, but also replace managers themselves with the minimum of fuss or disruption.
At Villa, this summer’s policy of buying almost exclusively young players with the emphasis on potential has so far left them 18th with four points from eight games. Their manager is now obliged to oversee his new charges’ development in the midst of a relegation fight, as well as save his own job– and all this before the clocks have even gone back.
All Villa transfer policy is overseen by the German sporting director Hendrik Almstadt, recruited this summer by chief executive Tom Fox from his former club Arsenal. Almstadt had originally joined Arsenal on the commercial side but his interest in data analytics, scouting and contract management permitted him a change in direction towards player recruitment.
The director of scouting and recruitment Paddy Reilly came back from Liverpool last year for his second spell at Villa and his connection with Randy Lerner, the club’s owner, has proven crucial. The Villa owner has the final sign-off on all transfers and he has endorsed the view that young players, with the potential to be sold at a profit must be a priority.
The club’s stated policy in their summer transfer dealings has been to pursue youth, remorselessly it seemed in the end, testing Sherwood’s credentials as a developer of young footballers to the limit. Lerner has been burned before, and looking around a squad that included the likes of Joe Cole, Philippe Senderos and Charles N’Zogbia he resolved never to be loaded down with the expensive, superannuated players that have been a feature of previous squads.
This summer Villa had a deal agreed with Aaron Lennon, later abandoned in keeping with policy for Adama Traore’s £7 million move from Barcelona. The 19-year-old might yet set the league alight but he could also be playing for a Championship club next season if Villa do not improve quickly. Moves for Esteban Cambiasso, Asmir Begovic, Tom Cleverley and Victor Moses also fell by the wayside as the club pursued their youth-first policy.
Sherwood must accept that he signed up for this ride and having ceded ultimate control of player transfer at the point he was best-placed to demand it – the moment before he signed his contract – will just have to do his best. Yet there will be only one casualty if Villa’s decline continues and the next manager will also be obliged to work with a group of players bought with 2017 in mind, rather than Saturday afternoon at Stamford Bridge.
There is undoubtedly a place in modern football for analysts who can pick their way through the great scree slopes of data now available on the elite game. All successful Premier League clubs are required to cast their net wide for players, with a network of scouts who work to standardised objectives and procedures rather than a proverbial finger in the wind. Yet when it works best, like Southampton, the recruitment team provides Ronald Koeman with a list of options to fill a position, and he makes the final decision.
Without that safety net, mistakes can be made.
Of the 13 players who arrived at Villa this summer, on a net spend of around £7 million, it has been Jordan Veretout, a 22-year-old midfielder signed from Nantes for £8 million, who has looked the furthest off the pace. Many of the others remain works in progress.
There is great potential at Villa, not least with Jack Grealish, the 20-year-old homegrown midfielder and, beyond him, the 17-year-olds Andre Green and Rushian Hepburn-Murphy, the latter of whom has already made his Premier League debut. Lose on Saturday and the likelihood of Sherwood being around to see those three flourish will be that much reduced, although you would not bet against those in the recruitment department emerging unscathed.
Let's not forget that the Lambert appointment came directly after managergeddon. We could have appointed a bag of frozen peas and there would have been street parties all over north Birmingham. The problem with Lambert is that he lasted so long. So damned, fucking long.
So the tit for tat has begun in earnest, this is Sherwood protecting himself against what now appears to be the inevitable end. I am not saying the article is wrong to me it smacks of the truth but any manager is able at any time to wave goodbye if he feels he has been short sided. Lets get this over quickly.
Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
So the tit for tat has begun in earnest, this is Sherwood protecting himself against what now appears to be the inevitable end. I am not saying the article is wrong to me it smacks of the truth but any manager is able at any time to wave goodbye if he feels he has been short sided. Lets get this over quickly.
Oh yes. The fact he has used the media to gob off again, when if you believe what has been written gave him 2 games, takes that down to 1. Oh dear.
They should have sat down this week and worked out a package.Sack him now and work out a package next week.
So the tit for tat has begun in earnest, this is Sherwood protecting himself against what now appears to be the inevitable end. I am not saying the article is wrong to me it smacks of the truth but any manager is able at any time to wave goodbye if he feels he has been short sided. Lets get this over quickly.
Oh yes. The fact he has used the media to gob off again, when if you believe what has been written gave him 2 games, takes that down to 1. Oh dear.
So the tit for tat has begun in earnest, this is Sherwood protecting himself against what now appears to be the inevitable end. I am not saying the article is wrong to me it smacks of the truth but any manager is able at any time to wave goodbye if he feels he has been short sided. Lets get this over quickly.
Oh yes. The fact he has used the media to gob off again, when if you believe what has been written gave him 2 games, takes that down to 1. Oh dear.
Sam Wallace of The Torygraph has a good relationship wth TS. This is an interview from May '14 when he was at the Indy.
Tim Sherwood interview: What the former Tottenham manager told The Independent during an exclusive interview earlier this season (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/tim-sherwood-interview-what-the-former-tottenham-manager-told-the-independent-during-an-exclusive-9362837.html)
Sam Wallace of The Torygraph has a good relationship wth TS. This is an interview from May '14 when he was at the Indy.
The massive point being missed though is these summer signings look very good. It's the haphazard way our manager is going about trying crazy formations, tactics and inconsistent personal on the pitch which is the problem.
To me the two guys doing the purchasing have done a bloody good job this summer.
The massive point being missed though is these summer signings look very good. It's the haphazard way our manager is going about trying crazy formations, tactics and inconsistent personal on the pitch which is the problem.
To me the two guys doing the purchasing have done a bloody good job this summer.
Indeed. Talking to someone whose opinions I respect (namely Dave Collett) after Stoke we both agreed that he was reminiscent of Tommy Docherty. I said it was because of the way he'd rescued us when all seemed lost in his first season only to end up worse off in his second, Dave made the point that like the Doc, he'd brought in a load of new players but had no idea how to integrate them and was chaging his team & tactics every week.
The massive point being missed though is these summer signings look very good. It's the haphazard way our manager is going about trying crazy formations, tactics and inconsistent personal on the pitch which is the problem.
To me the two guys doing the purchasing have done a bloody good job this summer.
For me, he seems to have that unenviable mixture of arrogance and ignorance. I really fail to see how some can like him.The massive point being missed though is these summer signings look very good. It's the haphazard way our manager is going about trying crazy formations, tactics and inconsistent personal on the pitch which is the problem.
To me the two guys doing the purchasing have done a bloody good job this summer.
Indeed. Talking to someone whose opinions I respect (namely Dave Collett) after Stoke we both agreed that he was reminiscent of Tommy Docherty. I said it was because of the way he'd rescued us when all seemed lost in his first season only to end up worse off in his second, Dave made the point that like the Doc, he'd brought in a load of new players but had no idea how to integrate them and was chaging his team & tactics every week.
I agree, too.
I like almost all of our signings. They look good.
It is the manager and his tactics letting us down, not the new players.
If this article is a result of Sherwood's mates listening to him, then it just makes me want him out even more - how does he think those players are going to feel reading this shit? It's all part of his "I can not be wrong" bullshit routine.
In many ways he strikes me as immature.
He is clearly peddling this story and deflecting blame now. He can feel the heat on the back of his neck.
The funny thing is, with time, I've got a bit of sympathy with all of the managers. They have all taken over an organisation with a bad stink about it.
Anyway who has worked in similar will know it. Low morale, not knowing what is coming next, cost cutting and constant employee turnover.
It saps you.
He is clearly peddling this story and deflecting blame now. He can feel the heat on the back of his neck.
Didn't he say that he was at his strongest when backed into a corner. And there was me thinking he was talking about football.
No need for the Drivel comments by either of you. But sorry Pelty Lerner owns the club and has over all responsibility for the club, that comes with ownership, you cant own something and not be responsible for it. The sequence of Managerial decisions have been a disaster including not taking action Lambert, allowing too much control MON and the less said about Mcleish the better. We are in this situation because of serial miss-management.Lerner does not even select the manager, so relax. Merely because they can say "Lerner,"and thus think that they have attained the Holy Grail of polysyllabism, all the nitwits who criticize the owner on this point just like to think of themselves as saying something meaningful. Trust me when I tell you that you have not. We get it; you think Lerner's appointments have sucked. In the case of McLeish, you are right, but the others are defensible and were never Lerner's alone anyway. You are boring; please stop wasting people's time with your drivel.
Who are you? And what have you got to do with anything anyway? Your post is complete drivel.
The massive point being missed though is these summer signings look very good. It's the haphazard way our manager is going about trying crazy formations, tactics and inconsistent personal on the pitch which is the problem.Absolutely right, and the two examples in the article - Ajax and Liverpool - demonstrate the workings of the transfer system. Experts are hired to identify and purchase players; managers are expected to be able to motivate and tactically deploy those players.
To me the two guys doing the purchasing have done a bloody good job this summer.
So the tit for tat has begun in earnest, this is Sherwood protecting himself against what now appears to be the inevitable end. I am not saying the article is wrong to me it smacks of the truth but any manager is able at any time to wave goodbye if he feels he has been short sided. Lets get this over quickly.
Oh yes. The fact he has used the media to gob off again, when if you believe what has been written gave him 2 games, takes that down to 1. Oh dear.
They should have sat down this week and worked out a package.
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/10/15/aston-villa-director-general-charles-krulak-makes-comment-about/
One thing I've always known about people in football, whether they are players, owners or managers, is whatever they say is gospel. Definitely true.
http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/10/15/aston-villa-director-general-charles-krulak-makes-comment-about/
My only comment about all the Lerner bashing is the majority call for him to sell, he has it up for sale, he has dropped the asking price by £50 million
Its not like the Hated Glazers, or Ashley at Newcastle
What else is he supposed to do?
My only comment about all the Lerner bashing is the majority call for him to sell, he has it up for sale, he has dropped the asking price by £50 million
Its not like the Hated Glazers, or Ashley at Newcastle
What else is he supposed to do?
http://talksport.com/football/it-would-be-huge-mistake-aston-villa-sack-tim-sherwood-assistant-ray-wilkins-tellsI don't need to read the story, just reading the link title is enough to see when a man is covering his own back
I hope he rejoins the football forums. It was really successful when he did (when we used to win games).
My only comment about all the Lerner bashing is the majority call for him to sell, he has it up for sale, he has dropped the asking price by £50 million
Its not like the Hated Glazers, or Ashley at Newcastle
What else is he supposed to do?
I read that krulak quote and it translates as the vote of confidence to me . He will be gone by Monday .
Take this as you will, but I heard this morning that the club have already put feelers out for their preferred candidate to replace Sherwood, and it's not Rodgers.
Take this as you will, but I heard this morning that the club have already put feelers out for their preferred candidate to replace Sherwood, and it's not Rodgers.
Take this as you will, but I heard this morning that the club have already put feelers out for their preferred candidate to replace Sherwood, and it's not Rodgers.Who is it?
I was told no names, but the inference was he was the other obvious candidate.
I was told no names, but the inference was he was the other obvious candidate.
Nooooooooooooooooo!I was told no names, but the inference was he was the other obvious candidate.
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02444/saundersact_2444583b.jpg)
Monty you think Lerner has ever heard of him?
He hasn't worked in the Premier League, you know?
Take this as you will, but I heard this morning that the club have already put feelers out for their preferred candidate to replace Sherwood, and it's not Rodgers.
Any more hints? Like, at a guess, do you think I would be happy with their choice? (Spoiler alert: if he's Scottish, I won't be.)
Take this as you will, but I heard this morning that the club have already put feelers out for their preferred candidate to replace Sherwood, and it's not Rodgers.
Let's hope it's Moyes. He'll sort this mess out.
I agree - but does he have an LLB?Take this as you will, but I heard this morning that the club have already put feelers out for their preferred candidate to replace Sherwood, and it's not Rodgers.
Let's hope it's Moyes. He'll sort this mess out.
Agreed with bells on.
Never has a manger been more suited or qualified to undertake the job of propelling Aston Villa up the table.
The main problem I have with Sherwood is that he does not have a Law degree.But he does have a contract until 2018, which will still cost Randy a couple of million.
The main problem I have with Sherwood is that he does not have a Law degree.But he does have a contract until 2018, which will still cost Randy a couple of million.
The general said Randy Pandy has always wanted continuity. So aside from the MON/GH/TSM U turns in management styles why didn't he give KMac or GMac the job permanently when they were already in place. I'm not saying I personally would have wanted that but it would have fitted his supposed 'plan'/'ambition'.
The main problem I have with Sherwood is that he does not have a Law degree.But he does have a contract until 2018, which will still cost Randy a couple of million.
Unless there's clauses in there, perhaps?
The general said Randy Pandy has always wanted continuity. So aside from the MON/GH/TSM U turns in management styles why didn't he give KMac or GMac the job permanently when they were already in place.
I was told no names, but the inference was he was the other obvious candidate.
I was told no names, but the inference was he was the other obvious candidate.
Be careful what we wish for......
(http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1514585.ece/alternates/s2197/Harry%20Redknapp)
I was told no names, but the inference was he was the other obvious candidate.
Be careful what we wish for......
(http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1514585.ece/alternates/s2197/Harry%20Redknapp)
I was told no names, but the inference was he was the other obvious candidate.
Be careful what we wish for......
(http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1514585.ece/alternates/s2197/Harry%20Redknapp)
Jesus - is 3 relegations not enough on his CV
I am really torn on this.Afternoon Natalie
What's the point in firing Sherwood and hiring his patron, prototype and Over-Master Redknapp? That's like firing Saruman and hiring Sauron - 'well orcs weren't working so we got more orcs.'
I am really torn on this.Afternoon Natalie
I am really torn on this.Afternoon Natalie
Easy mistake to make, we are often seen together.
What's the point in firing Sherwood and hiring his patron, prototype and Over-Master Redknapp? That's like firing Saruman and hiring Sauron - 'well orcs weren't working so we got more orcs.'
Now you've crystalised this ridiculous concept, you do realise the wheels of fate will move inexorably towards making it happen?
What's the point in firing Sherwood and hiring his patron, prototype and Over-Master Redknapp? That's like firing Saruman and hiring Sauron - 'well orcs weren't working so we got more orcs.'Surely the stripeys have already gone down the orc route?
What's the point in firing Sherwood and hiring his patron, prototype and Over-Master Redknapp? That's like firing Saruman and hiring Sauron - 'well orcs weren't working so we got more orcs.'Surely the stripeys have already gone down the orc route?
Well they've got Azog the Defiler (of football) in charge.
What's the point in firing Sherwood and hiring his patron, prototype and Over-Master Redknapp? That's like firing Saruman and hiring Sauron - 'well orcs weren't working so we got more orcs.'Surely the stripeys have already gone down the orc route?
Well they've got Azog the Defiler (of football) in charge.
I think Azog the Defiler has a bit more aesthetic feeling than Tony Pulis - that shapely blade-hand of his shits all over the horrible tracksuit and the unbelievable baseball cap.
The main problem I have with Sherwood is that he does not have a Law degree.
Take this as you will, but I heard this morning that the club have already put feelers out for their preferred candidate to replace Sherwood, and it's not Rodgers.
Let's hope it's Moyes. He'll sort this mess out.
Agreed with bells on.
Never has a manger been more suited or qualified to undertake the job of propelling Aston Villa up the table.
What's the point in firing Sherwood and hiring his patron, prototype and Over-Master Redknapp? That's like firing Saruman and hiring Sauron - 'well orcs weren't working so we got more orcs.'Surely the stripeys have already gone down the orc route?
Well they've got Azog the Defiler (of football) in charge.
I think Azog the Defiler has a bit more aesthetic feeling than Tony Pulis - that shapely blade-hand of his shits all over the horrible tracksuit and the unbelievable baseball cap.
To be fair Azog the Defiler was better looking than Pulis, even after he was decapitated. And he certainly had a better grasp of tactics for attacking.
The main problem I have with Sherwood is that he does not have a Law degree.I am see how that would irk you, somewhat.
No thanks.Take this as you will, but I heard this morning that the club have already put feelers out for their preferred candidate to replace Sherwood, and it's not Rodgers.
Let's hope it's Moyes. He'll sort this mess out.
Agreed with bells on.
Never has a manger been more suited or qualified to undertake the job of propelling Aston Villa up the table.
this
Fair enough, but surely our problems dwarf a few puns.What's the point in firing Sherwood and hiring his patron, prototype and Over-Master Redknapp? That's like firing Saruman and hiring Sauron - 'well orcs weren't working so we got more orcs.'Surely the stripeys have already gone down the orc route?
Well they've got Azog the Defiler (of football) in charge.
I think Azog the Defiler has a bit more aesthetic feeling than Tony Pulis - that shapely blade-hand of his shits all over the horrible tracksuit and the unbelievable baseball cap.
To be fair Azog the Defiler was better looking than Pulis, even after he was decapitated. And he certainly had a better grasp of tactics for attacking.
Can people stop trolling this thread?
Take this as you will, but I heard this morning that the club have already put feelers out for their preferred candidate to replace Sherwood, and it's not Rodgers.
Let's hope it's Moyes. He'll sort this mess out.
Agreed with bells on.
Never has a manger been more suited or qualified to undertake the job of propelling Aston Villa up the table.
this
Take this as you will, but I heard this morning that the club have already put feelers out for their preferred candidate to replace Sherwood, and it's not Rodgers.
Let's hope it's Moyes. He'll sort this mess out.
Neil Warlock. Anyone?
I am genuinely baffled how respected fellow fans could be even vaguely excited about Moyes. Just seems more of the same to me. Still differences of opinion and all that. If it was him obviously I would rally but right now I am having a hard time feeling the love. Anyone care to try and enthuse me or point out what I am missing?
I am genuinely baffled how respected fellow fans could be even vaguely excited about Moyes. Just seems more of the same to me. Still differences of opinion and all that. If it was him obviously I would rally but right now I am having a hard time feeling the love. Anyone care to try and enthuse me or point out what I am missing?
I am genuinely baffled how respected fellow fans could be even vaguely excited about Moyes. Just seems more of the same to me. Still differences of opinion and all that. If it was him obviously I would rally but right now I am having a hard time feeling the love. Anyone care to try and enthuse me or point out what I am missing?
Probably because he's proven quality in the PL, unlike most of the other muppets Lerner has employed since O'Neill walked. We're in a relegation battle and I'd be a tad more confident with Moyes in charge rather than Sherwood.
I am genuinely baffled how respected fellow fans could be even vaguely excited about Moyes. Just seems more of the same to me. Still differences of opinion and all that. If it was him obviously I would rally but right now I am having a hard time feeling the love. Anyone care to try and enthuse me or point out what I am missing?It's the thought of solid dependability and a couple of drama free seasons. He's the Ronseal option. It does what it says on the tin! There's a lot to be said for it and I can understand why people would be that way inclined. I certainly wouldn't be crying if it was him. Despite his trials and tribulations in Salford and Sociedad, he's a solid manager who should provide some much needed stability and remove the stresses of seemingly constantly bouncing between 19th and 15th.
I am genuinely baffled how respected fellow fans could be even vaguely excited about Moyes. Just seems more of the same to me. Still differences of opinion and all that. If it was him obviously I would rally but right now I am having a hard time feeling the love. Anyone care to try and enthuse me or point out what I am missing?
Probably because he's proven quality in the PL, unlike most of the other muppets Lerner has employed since O'Neill walked. We're in a relegation battle and I'd be a tad more confident with Moyes in charge rather than Sherwood.
But surely being more confident with Moyes than Sherwood in itself isn't a reason to suggest Moyes as the man who should get the job?
I'd feel more confident with Ads back in charge than I would with Sherwood.
Thanks both.
I guess I don't see the "safe pair of hands" in Moyes.
He managed to take a title winning squad and give them the worst home record since the 70's and their lowest points tally in the Premier league. I know there are not many records left after Lambert to break but christ , on evidence Moyes would give it a go. In Spain he has taken a 7th placed side to 12th and currently has dragged them down to 17th .
I am projecting here but assuming he stays true to form and takes our position down like he has his last two clubs then we are relegated.
Thanks both.
I guess I don't see the "safe pair of hands" in Moyes.
He managed to take a title winning squad and give them the worst home record since the 70's and their lowest points tally in the Premier league. I know there are not many records left after Lambert to break but christ , on evidence Moyes would give it a go. In Spain he has taken a 7th placed side to 12th and currently has dragged them down to 17th .
I am projecting here but assuming he stays true to form and takes our position down like he has his last two clubs then we are relegated.
That's about as logical as saying because he took Everton from 17th place or wherever they were when he first showed up to 6th and 7th constantly, he'd also take us to that spot from where we are now.
He didn't take Sociedad "from 7th" to 12th - they were near the relegation zone when he was appointed and he moved them away from it. He's had a dodgy start to this season but he had a reputation with Everton for being morbid in the first half and kicking on after the New Year, so I don't think you can make any definitive assessment at this point.
As for the United thing, it's a completely different scenario when it comes to managing a top club.
In a vacuum, maybe the United job was easier. But I think his track record suggests that getting a team out of the relegation positions is far more suited to his strengths as a manager, than contending for a CL spot. Those test pretty different parts of a manager's abilities (one is getting the team organised and pragmatic enough in deciding when to go for one and when to go for three points; the other is proactively seeking three points, almost game after game.)
In a vacuum, maybe the United job was easier. But I think his track record suggests that getting a team out of the relegation positions is far more suited to his strengths as a manager, than contending for a CL spot. Those test pretty different parts of a manager's abilities (one is getting the team organised and pragmatic enough in deciding when to go for one and when to go for three points; the other is proactively seeking three points, almost game after game.)
Fair point.
Krulak needs to pipe down.he only pops up when he likes then slithers away again
I am genuinely baffled how respected fellow fans could be even vaguely excited about Moyes. Just seems more of the same to me. Still differences of opinion and all that. If it was him obviously I would rally but right now I am having a hard time feeling the love. Anyone care to try and enthuse me or point out what I am missing?
Probably because he's proven quality in the PL, unlike most of the other muppets Lerner has employed since O'Neill walked. We're in a relegation battle and I'd be a tad more confident with Moyes in charge rather than Sherwood.
It seems to me that if we want to muddle along finishing beween 6th and 14th every year and having the odd cup run every now and then, then Moyes would be the perfect answer.
And given the last 5 years we have endured, who wouldn't want that?
BUT, where is the excitement going to come from?
Where is the feeling that in 3-4 years time we could push on for top 4 ?
I fully understand that top 4 is a pipe dream , but surely you need to put in place a manager capable of achieving that and then work towards that goal.
Moyes would be (welcome) stability but at the expense of real ambition, I feel.
It seems to me that if we want to muddle along finishing beween 6th and 14th every year and having the odd cup run every now and then, then Moyes would be the perfect answer.
And given the last 5 years we have endured, who wouldn't want that?
BUT, where is the excitement going to come from?
Where is the feeling that in 3-4 years time we could push on for top 4 ?
I fully understand that top 4 is a pipe dream , but surely you need to put in place a manager capable of achieving that and then work towards that goal.
Moyes would be (welcome) stability but at the expense of real ambition, I feel.
I'm just unconvinced he'd be the guy to use the players we have to the best of their ability. First off, guaranteed he plays Gestede - absolutely guaranteed. Secondly, does he play both Gil and Grealish? That doesn't suit his so-called 'pragmatism', yet it's the most pragmatic way we have of getting points. Thirdly, he did well at Everton, but it was built on a platform established quite a while ago which seemed to do decently each year out of habit - as soon as he's replicated his strategies elsewhere he's been a failure.
I'm not saying he'd be a disaster for us at all, and I certainly wouldn't be upset like I was at the TSM or Sherwood appointments, but it would feel to me a bit like the Lambert appointment - a treading-water deal, and yet another missed opportunity to modernise the club.
I just found all his style of football a little industrial and his player selection and purchases always supported that. Man many years of floating and not doing anything other than an awful start with a flurry in the last half of the season. No cups, no finals just nothing
Some might say better than struggling as we are now - but not for me
TSM mk3
TS on fans.. 'They were singing my name three weeks ago - they will be singing it in three weeks time.'
Not for me Saunders, he couldn't mastermind beating Bradford over two legs, even with the tools we had we should have fucking pumped them at home but the second half was atrocious and he was completely found out. Didn't have a clue.
I just found all his style of football a little industrial and his player selection and purchases always supported that. Man many years of floating and not doing anything other than an awful start with a flurry in the last half of the season. No cups, no finals just nothing
Some might say better than struggling as we are now - but not for me
TSM mk3
Everton were beaten by Chelsea in the 2009 FA Cup final.
If we're considering finishing regularly in the top 6 as nothing or floating, then I don't really know what to say.
How was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.
He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.
I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?
As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.
I just found all his style of football a little industrial and his player selection and purchases always supported that. Man many years of floating and not doing anything other than an awful start with a flurry in the last half of the season. No cups, no finals just nothing
Some might say better than struggling as we are now - but not for me
TSM mk3
Everton were beaten by Chelsea in the 2009 FA Cup final.
If we're considering finishing regularly in the top 6 as nothing or floating, then I don't really know what to say.
I wouldn't mind floating around the top 6 for a few years. I mean don't you have to win a few games to get that high up the table?
I cannot accept this argument that Moyes being a safe pair of hands is a bad thing. A safe pair of hands that picked Everton up from their backside and put them back where we're traditionally used to seeing Everton; in top 5/6 and competing at the right end of table.I think we want our cake want to be able to eat it.
Comparisons with managers like Allardyce, McLeish, Lambert etc. aren't relevant because they've not done anything remotely similar.
How was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.
He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.
I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?
As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.
In order:
- Lambert was a water-treader because, of all the managers in the world, they yet-again decided that 'Premier League experience' was the vital criterion. That's such a conservative and insular way of thinking, and designed to do nothing but hopefully keep us bumbling safely around this league. Moyes would be similar.
- Those circumstances may well have been unusual, but they're still all we have. I don't think the evidence is there to suggest he'd take us down, but I don't think it's there to suggest he'd be much of a modernising force at the club. If he were, he could have done quite well in Spain; as he isn't, he hasn't.
- Yes he built the platform, but my point is that the game has moved on since that platform - a defence of stoppers, Lee Carsley in midfield, long-balls-to-the-big-man - was really effective in the Premier League. It's maximum position used to be 5th or even 4th, but now it's probably 12th at absolute best, and Everton continued to do well because of stability (much underrated). Now, I'd kill for 12th right now, but it would all be a bit pointless.
- On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.
Come on Monty. The game in this league has moved on so much so since Moyes last season in Everton, a staggering two and a bit years, that he'd be out of touch?
A season where they finished 6th, won 16 and only lost 7 and had 63 points in the bag.
Come on Monty. The game in this league has moved on so much so since Moyes last season in Everton, a staggering two and a bit years, that he'd be out of touch?
A season where they finished 6th, won 16 and only lost 7 and had 63 points in the bag.
Read my post again - I said they continued to do well because of stability, in the main. Having a really settled team who know exactly what they're doing (and who had some very good players as well) is a massive help. The point is that he couldn't do it again in the same way, I think.
passitsideways, I think that would be sensible, but it's never going to happen. Randy clearly wants to appoint a manager he can let run the club for the next decade, should he still own the place. I don't think he's into strategic replacements and so on.
How was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.
He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.
I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?
As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.
In order:
- Lambert was a water-treader because, of all the managers in the world, they yet-again decided that 'Premier League experience' was the vital criterion. That's such a conservative and insular way of thinking, and designed to do nothing but hopefully keep us bumbling safely around this league. Moyes would be similar.
- Those circumstances may well have been unusual, but they're still all we have. I don't think the evidence is there to suggest he'd take us down, but I don't think it's there to suggest he'd be much of a modernising force at the club. If he were, he could have done quite well in Spain; as he isn't, he hasn't.
- Yes he built the platform, but my point is that the game has moved on since that platform - a defence of stoppers, Lee Carsley in midfield, long-balls-to-the-big-man - was really effective in the Premier League. It's maximum position used to be 5th or even 4th, but now it's probably 12th at absolute best, and Everton continued to do well because of stability (much underrated). Now, I'd kill for 12th right now, but it would all be a bit pointless.
- On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.
I think it is probably a little fanciful to think that we can go from years of battling relegation to being contenders for a top 6 spot without going through a couple of years of consolidation or a sudden input of a hundred million or so. What we need is a manager who can establish us on firm foundations and then look to build from there. Moyes fits the bill. What comes after that is as much about money as anything else and unless we are in a position to compete with the big spenders then a best of the rest option is going to be the best we can aim for and again Moyes has previous.
It's not a bad thing, it could just be a better thing. For a decade this club has been making appointments entirely within the world of British football of the 1990s. When we ask how it is that clubs like Swansea and Southampton surge ahead of us, we shouldn't be surprised to find that the answer is 'they didn't appoint someone like David Moyes'.
I'd trust Moyes to keep us safe, and much more than I would Sherwood or Lambert or McLeish, but that's about it. This club needs to be kicked into the present century.
How was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.
- On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.
If we came up against a side with pace, whose tempo makes them want to go back to front as quick as possible, such as Leciester for example, then our full backs become exposed and cannot provide the width as they're forced back into a conventional line. Your middle of the park is much more likely to get overrun, especially with only two in there as a result.
Maybe because they play for the club? What a weird question.
If we came up against a side with pace, whose tempo makes them want to go back to front as quick as possible, such as Leciester for example, then our full backs become exposed and cannot provide the width as they're forced back into a conventional line. Your middle of the park is much more likely to get overrun, especially with only two in there as a result.
Maybe because they play for the club? What a weird question.
Not a weird question at all. They may be all we have at the moment, but that could be put right by a new manager in the transfer window.
If/how a new manager might deploy the shower of abject footballing poverty in gestede, ayew and gill for a few weeks shouldn't be a major decision factor on who to appoint.
Why on earth are you obsessed with Jack, Gill, Gestede and Ayew? If there's any chance of progression over the next few seasons then 3 out of those 4 will have to be long gone.
On stability, an established platform.
Alright, fine, by the fruits of his labour shall we know him. I'm willing to bet that David Moyes' next post in English football will see him humiliatingly out of touch, if he has pretentions to repeating his Everton success. The game has changed too much, and he won't be able to establish what he did before.If we came up against a side with pace, whose tempo makes them want to go back to front as quick as possible, such as Leciester for example, then our full backs become exposed and cannot provide the width as they're forced back into a conventional line. Your middle of the park is much more likely to get overrun, especially with only two in there as a result.
That's just an argument against playing either of them ever, because teams will always double-up on them if they're playing on a wing or power through them if they're in the middle. Fine, go down that route if you want, but it's pure Allardyce.
On stability, an established platform.
Alright, fine, by the fruits of his labour shall we know him. I'm willing to bet that David Moyes' next post in English football will see him humiliatingly out of touch, if he has pretentions to repeating his Everton success. The game has changed too much, and he won't be able to establish what he did before.If we came up against a side with pace, whose tempo makes them want to go back to front as quick as possible, such as Leciester for example, then our full backs become exposed and cannot provide the width as they're forced back into a conventional line. Your middle of the park is much more likely to get overrun, especially with only two in there as a result.
That's just an argument against playing either of them ever, because teams will always double-up on them if they're playing on a wing or power through them if they're in the middle. Fine, go down that route if you want, but it's pure Allardyce.
How was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.
He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.
I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?
As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.
In order:
- Lambert was a water-treader because, of all the managers in the world, they yet-again decided that 'Premier League experience' was the vital criterion. That's such a conservative and insular way of thinking, and designed to do nothing but hopefully keep us bumbling safely around this league. Moyes would be similar.
- Those circumstances may well have been unusual, but they're still all we have. I don't think the evidence is there to suggest he'd take us down, but I don't think it's there to suggest he'd be much of a modernising force at the club. If he were, he could have done quite well in Spain; as he isn't, he hasn't.
- Yes he built the platform, but my point is that the game has moved on since that platform - a defence of stoppers, Lee Carsley in midfield, long-balls-to-the-big-man - was really effective in the Premier League. It's maximum position used to be 5th or even 4th, but now it's probably 12th at absolute best, and Everton continued to do well because of stability (much underrated). Now, I'd kill for 12th right now, but it would all be a bit pointless.
- On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.
Basically all fair points, but I suppose we differ in terms of how we want the club to get from point A to point B (point B presumably being a club consistently in play for the European spots.) I consider it a two-step process where we hire someone boring to start it off, while working particularly hard to identify the successor who takes the big steps.
I don't really think it's a matter of 'modernising', so to speak, that we should be prioritising. I know it's not ideal to have someone as dull as Moyes in there, but we've run ourselves into such a mess that honestly I think that no other approach is all that realistic (or as a different way of expressing it, I think it would be too much of a gamble.)
There is a lot of talk that Tim Sherwood is close to being sacked by Aston Villa but I cannot understand why they would even contemplate getting rid of him at this stage of the season.
If he does become the next Premier League manager to lose his job, it would not just be unfair, it would be absolutely ridiculous.
'Sherwood was always manager material' (http://c.files.bbci.co.uk/A89C/production/_86146134_timsherwood.jpg) Sherwood played with Sutton at Blackburn between 1994 and 1999 I cleaned Tim's boots when I was an apprentice at Norwich in the late 1980s, and he was the captain at Blackburn Rovers when we won the Premier League together in 1995.
Of course I am not just backing him to succeed at Villa because I used to play with him - the reason is that, since the earliest days of my career, I have always seen him as manager material.
When I was a teenager I looked up to him because I liked the way he went about things and how he dealt with me and other people. Even though he was a young man then too, the other players all thought the same.
Character is a bit of a buzzword these days, but as a player I looked around for team-mates who had the ability to handle pressure and Tim was always one of them.
At 46, he is a relatively young manager now, certainly in terms of experience, but you have to remember he was quite a young captain at Blackburn too - he was 26 when we were champions.
We had some pretty big-hitters in terms of personalities in that dressing room, the likes of Alan Shearer, David Batty, Tim Flowers and Colin Hendry.
They were never afraid to have their say but, if you speak to them, they will all tell you they admired Tim not just for what he brought to the team as a player but also his contribution to the club's success as captain.
(http://c.files.bbci.co.uk/F6BC/production/_86146136_timsherwood.jpg) Sutton looks on as Alan Shearer and Tim Sherwood celebrate a goal in Blackburn's win over Villa in 1994 'It's OK to be cocky as long as you make sense' For Tim to be skipper ahead of, say, Shearer shows you what the Blackburn boss Kenny Dalglish thought of him too.
He always had the leadership qualities you need as a manager and, on top of that, I always thought he was extremely knowledgeable about the game.
He comes across as confident or even cocky in some respects, but in the dressing room it doesn't matter whether you are an introvert or an extrovert as long as what you are saying makes sense. Tim always did.
So it does not surprise me that, as a manager, he has got the best out of players who had been under-performing - like Emmanuel Adebayor at Spurs (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25572261) or Christian Benteke (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32665990) and Fabian Delph (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32569210) at Villa last season - because he has always had the ability to get people playing for him.
(http://c.files.bbci.co.uk/144DC/production/_86146138_adebayor.jpg) Adebayor was frozen out at Spurs until Sherwood took charge in November 2013, then scored 14 goals in 24 games when he was manager At times he might say things that players don't like - because he tells the truth. That ruffles a few feathers but I don't mind it, in fact he should be commended for it.
These days I hear a lot of people in football say things with no substance behind them, but Tim certainly is not like that - he can always back his opinions up.
'He is trying to build a new team' (http://c.files.bbci.co.uk/17998/production/_86146669_benteke.jpg) Christian Benteke had scored two goals in 16 league games before Sherwood took charge of Villa last season. Under Sherwood, he scored 11 in 13, earning Villa 11 points - they stayed up by three points Tim earned his right to have a proper crack at being Villa boss with the incredible job he did to keep them up after taking charge in February, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31487088) when they were in desperate trouble with a dreadful scoring record.
Villa have been fighting relegation for a few years now under several different managers so this season was never going to be any different.
But, just eight games into the new campaign and at the first sign of adversity, Sherwood already appears to be under massive pressure. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34541942)
You have to take into consideration that he lost his two best players over the summer in striker Benteke and midfielder Delph, who were both inspirational for him last season, and realise he is trying to build a new team with all the signings that Villa have made.
Villa's net spend over the summer was under £10m - and a lot of that went on young players with little or no Premier League experience.
They have plenty of potential, and also plenty of sell-on value which seems to be a big part of the club's thinking, but it is a gamble whether they work out for Villa now and that is Sherwood's problem.
I don't know who had the final say on each deal but from what I understand, Villa's head of recruitment Paddy Reilly and sporting director Hendrik Almstadt play a big part in the process.
You cannot blame Tim for the squad not being strong enough if it is not just down to him, but he is the one who is being criticised because Villa have not won since the opening day.
I get why the club's owner Randy Lerner might be getting twitchy because of the amount of money at stake if they go down, but the logical thing to do is to give Sherwood more time because he is an intelligent man who has already shown he can improve players - which is exactly what Villa need now.
'Trying to find the right balance in attack and defence' (http://c.files.bbci.co.uk/E654/production/_86146985_gestede.jpg) Gestede has scored four goals in five starts for Villa since his £6m summer move from Blackburn Sherwood has chopped and changed his team and formation a lot so far, but that is only because he is trying to find the right balance between attack and defence while he beds those new signings in and finds a system that works with the players he has got.
Aston Villa's signings - summer 2015 Player From Age Fee Idrissa Gueye
Lille
26
£9m
Jordan Ayew
Lorient
24
£8.5m
Jordan Veretout
Nantes
22
£8m
Jordan Amavi
Nice
21
£7.7m
Adama Traore
Barcelona
19
£7m
Rudy Gestede
Blackburn
27
£6m
Scott Sinclair
Man City
26
£2.5m
Joleon Lescott
Man City
33
£2m
Jose Angel Crespo
Bologna
28
£550k
Matija Sarkic
Anderlecht
18
Unknown
Micah Richards
Man City
27
Free
Mark Bunn
Norwich
30
Free
Tiago Ilori
Liverpool
22
Loan
The choices he has to make with his current forwards is an example of how difficult that is.
Like Benteke, Rudy Gestede has tremendous physical attributes and is as good as there is in the air in the Premier League.
In an effort to make the most of that, Sherwood has tried to get his full-backs forward to get crosses into the box - Jordan Amavi and Alan Hutton or Leandro Bacuna have all done that far more than any of Villa's midfielders.
But what Gestede doesn't have is the ability to link up play, or the pace to get behind defences. In that way, Benteke was much more of an all-round striker.
Sherwood can leave out Gestede and play Gabriel Agbonlahor or Jordan Ayew if he wants pace, but then he does not have that same physical presence up front, or any aerial threat.
Whoever he picks, he is missing something that Benteke provided on his own.
Because he is trying to find that balance between attack and defence, he cannot always play two up front to solve that problem, especially because he is also trying to fit Jack Grealish into his team as an attacking midfielder.
'Grealish has defensive responsibilities too' (http://c.files.bbci.co.uk/12B78/production/_86146667_grealishgoal.jpg) Jack Grealish scores Villa's first goal against Leicester - they led 2-0, but lost 3-2 Grealish is a young player who has a lot of talent but picking him creates a different issue because winning games is not just down to what happens when you have got the ball.
Aston Villa in the Premier League 2015-16 Player/position Starts Most open-play crosses *One of Bacuna's starts came as a right-winger, when he made four of his crosses
Jordan Amavi (left-back)
8
35
Alan Hutton (right-back)
4
27
Leandro Bacuna (right-back)*
5
14
Ashley Westwood (midfield)
8
12
Scott Sinclair (midfield)
7
8
However good Grealish is going forward, he does not always put in a shift going back the other way.
When you lose possession, you need to be compact and tight defensively and Villa have lacked that in the games I have seen, notably in their defeat by Leicester (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34166753) when they were hit on the counter-attack time and time again.
You really need defensive responsibility when you are in Villa's position near the bottom of the table.
That might be one of the reasons why Sherwood has apparently used this international break to try to get Grealish fitter.
After trying so many formations and line-ups, maybe we will see Sherwood sticking with just one in the next five or six games.
A settled system and some continuity is what Villa need at the moment. Tim knows that and, if he is given the chance, I am confident he will get it right.
Chris Sutton was speaking to BBC Sport's Chris Bevan.
Aston Villa in the Premier League 2015-16 Game Formation Team changes Score Bournemouth (a)
4-3-3
W1-0
Man Utd (h)
4-3-3
0
L1-0
Crystal Palace (a)
4-3-3
3
L2-1
Sunderland (h)
4-3-3
2
D2-2
Leicester (a)
4-2-3-1
3
L3-2
West Brom (h)
4-4-1-1
1
L1-0
Liverpool (a)
4-3-3
2
L3-2
Stoke (h)
3-5-2
2
L1-0
How was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.
He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.
I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?
As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.
In order:
- Lambert was a water-treader because, of all the managers in the world, they yet-again decided that 'Premier League experience' was the vital criterion. That's such a conservative and insular way of thinking, and designed to do nothing but hopefully keep us bumbling safely around this league. Moyes would be similar.
- Those circumstances may well have been unusual, but they're still all we have. I don't think the evidence is there to suggest he'd take us down, but I don't think it's there to suggest he'd be much of a modernising force at the club. If he were, he could have done quite well in Spain; as he isn't, he hasn't.
- Yes he built the platform, but my point is that the game has moved on since that platform - a defence of stoppers, Lee Carsley in midfield, long-balls-to-the-big-man - was really effective in the Premier League. It's maximum position used to be 5th or even 4th, but now it's probably 12th at absolute best, and Everton continued to do well because of stability (much underrated). Now, I'd kill for 12th right now, but it would all be a bit pointless.
- On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.
Basically all fair points, but I suppose we differ in terms of how we want the club to get from point A to point B (point B presumably being a club consistently in play for the European spots.) I consider it a two-step process where we hire someone boring to start it off, while working particularly hard to identify the successor who takes the big steps.
I don't really think it's a matter of 'modernising', so to speak, that we should be prioritising. I know it's not ideal to have someone as dull as Moyes in there, but we've run ourselves into such a mess that honestly I think that no other approach is all that realistic (or as a different way of expressing it, I think it would be too much of a gamble.)
I agree entirely with that. Our first priority is to stay up this season, then 2 or 3 seasons of mid table obscurity at worst where we aren't in any serious danger of flirting with relegation, and then we can think about pushing onto the next stage of being around the top 7 or 8.
Not a very exciting prospect really and that is a large reason as to why football is broken, where is the excitement in trying to finish 8th if you have a good season?
Sutton, you are a poor a 'pundit' as you were a stiker for us !!
Sutton, you are a poor a 'pundit' as you were a stiker for us !!
apart from this...
UTV
The Doc
Just caught a bit of Sherwoods press conference, I assume from today.
His manner and answers reminded me of Paul Lambert.....
How was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.
He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.
I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?
As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.
In order:
- Lambert was a water-treader because, of all the managers in the world, they yet-again decided that 'Premier League experience' was the vital criterion. That's such a conservative and insular way of thinking, and designed to do nothing but hopefully keep us bumbling safely around this league. Moyes would be similar.
- Those circumstances may well have been unusual, but they're still all we have. I don't think the evidence is there to suggest he'd take us down, but I don't think it's there to suggest he'd be much of a modernising force at the club. If he were, he could have done quite well in Spain; as he isn't, he hasn't.
- Yes he built the platform, but my point is that the game has moved on since that platform - a defence of stoppers, Lee Carsley in midfield, long-balls-to-the-big-man - was really effective in the Premier League. It's maximum position used to be 5th or even 4th, but now it's probably 12th at absolute best, and Everton continued to do well because of stability (much underrated). Now, I'd kill for 12th right now, but it would all be a bit pointless.
- On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.
Basically all fair points, but I suppose we differ in terms of how we want the club to get from point A to point B (point B presumably being a club consistently in play for the European spots.) I consider it a two-step process where we hire someone boring to start it off, while working particularly hard to identify the successor who takes the big steps.
I don't really think it's a matter of 'modernising', so to speak, that we should be prioritising. I know it's not ideal to have someone as dull as Moyes in there, but we've run ourselves into such a mess that honestly I think that no other approach is all that realistic (or as a different way of expressing it, I think it would be too much of a gamble.)
I agree entirely with that. Our first priority is to stay up this season, then 2 or 3 seasons of mid table obscurity at worst where we aren't in any serious danger of flirting with relegation, and then we can think about pushing onto the next stage of being around the top 7 or 8.
Not a very exciting prospect really and that is a large reason as to why football is broken, where is the excitement in trying to finish 8th if you have a good season?
I agree totally but how many seasons have we been saying this for? We haven't even got close to the Mid table Obscurity for sometime now.
I'm really fed up of the English, safety first, defend and counter football that he'd bring. I get the need for defensive stability , it's obviously a big boost to your ability to win games but I want other teams to be worrying about what we're going to be doing rather than the constant concern of how we nullify them.
TS on fans.. 'They were singing my name three weeks ago - they will be singing it in three weeks time.'
This extract alone, from the Sutton article above proves that it is just the 'old boys network' sticking up for each.
In reality, its better suited to printing off and wiping your arse on.
'However good Grealish is going forward, he does not always put in a shift going back the other way.
When you lose possession, you need to be compact and tight defensively and Villa have lacked that in the games I have seen, notably in their defeat by Leicester when they were hit on the counter-attack time and time again'.
So the defeat at leicester was down to Jack not putting a defensive shift in.
Nothing to do with the shite substitutions that decimated our midfield and allowed Leicester to rampage through the middle.
Nothing to do with taking Gil off, and bringing Ayew on.
Nothing to do with SEEING we were being ripped to shreds and doing nothing to protect the back 4.
It was all Jacks fault !!!
Sutton, you are a poor a 'pundit' as you were a stiker for us !!
I'm torn on this, but on balance I think I'd probably have to agree with Monty too. Considering our current position, Moyes would clearly not be a bad appointment as such. He might make us a more solid proposition, more difficult to play against. But throughout his Everton reign, he did rely on a fairly settled core of British players who played in a fairly industrious, high octane fashion similar to O'Neill's sides. It worked well enough then, but I think the emphasis on physicality means there's a ceiling to what can be achieved by that approach. It burns players out more quickly, and might explain why Moyes' sides - again, like O'Neill's - tended to have one good half-season, and one rather indifferent one.
This article illustrates quite neatly the difference between Moyes' Everton, and Martinez's more Swansea-esque ethos:
http://statsbomb.com/2014/11/moyes-vs-martinez-which-everton-manager-has-been-better/ (http://statsbomb.com/2014/11/moyes-vs-martinez-which-everton-manager-has-been-better/)
Fair enough, even a good half-season is better than what we're looking at right now. But I have to say, I don't think our current squad is at all suited to that approach, and suspect Moyes would struggle for a fair while, until he could seriously overhaul the squad with a core of British worker ants. And as we know, they come at a premium cost.
All things considered, I wouldn't be unhappy with Moyes, but I do think it would be a bit of a wasted opportunity. There are other, more progressive options out there, if only we deigned to consider them.
The other thing about Moyes is that he'll almost certainly insist on dismantling the new structure with Rielly et al. Taking us right back to the square marked '1' in terms of over all stability.
The only way I see Sherwood now keeping his job is if he stops being so bloody cowardly going into games. I got the impression with Lambert that the players literally suffocated under the stress that he in large part brought on. There are good players at the club and he needs to start providing them with the same freedom as he brought last season. It was a remarkable transformation in a few weeks. We need that now. If tomorrow we set up to avoid defeat we'll be 2 or 3 down by HT. He may as well be fired right there and then.
It's shocking how quickly Sherwood has started to look like Lambert, both on and off the pitch.
That transformation was largely down to the crucial goals from Benteke and Cleverly . Both long gone.
Some of the players rose to the challenge when it mattered in the run in , then quickly shut down again after the West Ham gameThat transformation was largely down to the crucial goals from Benteke and Cleverly . Both long gone.
The transformation was down to attitude. Or are you suggesting Benteke and Cleverley weren't a part of the problem before Sherwood got to the club?
Some of the players rose to the challenge when it mattered in the run in , then quickly shut down again after the West Ham gameThat transformation was largely down to the crucial goals from Benteke and Cleverly . Both long gone.
The transformation was down to attitude. Or are you suggesting Benteke and Cleverley weren't a part of the problem before Sherwood got to the club?
I agree with what you say TV about his need to wake up to the reality that it is not all about him. There are sure signs in his words and his actions that under the media veneer he has little or no regard for the club or its fans. The most we have ever been to him is a stepping stone to better and bigger things. The club should and must show an equally pragmatic and unsentimental attitude in return.
It's shocking how quickly Sherwood has started to look like Lambert, both on and off the pitch.Yes he's even got rid of the gilet!
I agree with what you say TV about his need to wake up to the reality that it is not all about him. There are sure signs in his words and his actions that under the media veneer he has little or no regard for the club or its fans. The most we have ever been to him is a stepping stone to better and bigger things. The club should and must show an equally pragmatic and unsentimental attitude in return.How apt, that it's the end result of that attitude and lack of regard that has so completely exposed him for the useless chancer he is, thus ensuring we'll only be his stepping stone to the Sky Soccer Saturday studio.
Durham and Gough on TS were talking to a Villa fan about Sherwood. I thought Durham got it bang on when he said Sherwood lost his head. That Villa are a massive club and Sherwood needs to remind himself this isn't about him. That was in reference to the continued use of Tim Sherwood third person talk and the entire cringeworthy nonsense about we will be singing his name in 4 weeks. I have always found Adrian Durham very complimentary about us.Yes Durham is a proper football fan first and broadcaster second.
I agree with what you say TV about his need to wake up to the reality that it is not all about him. There are sure signs in his words and his actions that under the media veneer he has little or no regard for the club or its fans. The most we have ever been to him is a stepping stone to better and bigger things. The club should and must show an equally pragmatic and unsentimental attitude in return.How apt, that it's the end result of that attitude and lack of regard that has so completely exposed him for the useless chancer he is, thus ensuring we'll only be his stepping stone to the Sky Soccer Saturday studio.
Footy there is either more than one of you or you are developing your communication skills very well. That is an excellent post.
That's a pretty good summation.
The bit about motivation for taking the jobs and the (lack of) management of their relationships to the players could closer to the truth than we'd care to think about.
Aston Villa have proved a managerial graveyard for both the experienced, and inexperienced. Explain, and discuss, in no more than 500 words.
Aston Villa have proved a managerial graveyard for both the experienced, and inexperienced. Explain, and discuss, in no more than 500 words.
Which suggests the problem at the club runs deeper than whoever happens to be the manager.
Aston Villa have proved a managerial graveyard for both the experienced, and inexperienced. Explain, and discuss, in no more than 500 words.
Which suggests the problem at the club runs deeper than whoever happens to be the manager.
As seen last season, if there's just one thing that gets Lerner's attention it's villa dropping into the relegation zone.
4 points from 27 time to go.
As seen last season, if there's just one thing that gets Lerner's attention it's villa dropping into the relegation zone.
Or when we get to a cup final...he shows an interest then.
get convinced, maybe he wasn't convinced last time because so many villa fans were on the fence.
It seems to me like Lerner appoints managers that he likes personally. He now needs to appoint a bastard that wins games.
It seems to me that Lerner appoints managers that he likes personally. He now needs to appoint a bastard that wins games.
The thing is it doesn't matter what the manner of the defeats are, 7 defeats from 9 is sackable however you look at it. We haven't won a league game since August for fucks sake. In that time we've played Sunderland, Leicester, West Brom, Stoke and Crystal Palace. It's just completely unacceptable.
The thing is it doesn't matter what the manner of the defeats are, 7 defeats from 9 is sackable however you look at it. We haven't won a league game since August for fucks sake. In that time we've played Sunderland, Leicester, West Brom, Stoke and Crystal Palace. It's just completely unacceptable.
That's what makes it all the more galling, we've been losing to utter dross.
The thing is it doesn't matter what the manner of the defeats are, 7 defeats from 9 is sackable however you look at it. We haven't won a league game since August for fucks sake. In that time we've played Sunderland, Leicester, West Brom, Stoke and Crystal Palace. It's just completely unacceptable.
That's what makes it all the more galling, we've been losing to utter dross.
It's not just galling it suggests we are exactly where we belong performance wise.
Sherwood has spunked the Benteke money on mediocre players.Agree they aren't great but a decent proven manager such as Moyes would get 40 points out of them .
Sherwood has spunked the Benteke money on mediocre players.Agree they aren't great but a decent proven manager such as Moyes would get 40 points out of them .
has anyone done worse than that and not got the chop??!
Next up: Swansea, Spurs, Man City, Everton
How many points do we see ourselves getting? I can't see any
After those that'll be a third of the season gone.
Next up: Swansea, Spurs, Man City, Everton
How many points do we see ourselves getting? I can't see any
After those that'll be a third of the season gone.
Club needs a massive lift, next Saturday will turn toxic if it goes bad. Fingers as always should be pointed at the suits and not just the 'manager'.
hes out next week . I can asureyou
When it happens, it will probably be Moyes that we call on but I'm not sure he'll answer.
hes out next week . I can assure you
hes out next week . I can assure you
hes out next week . I can asureyou
What do you mean?
Come on down...Marcelo Bielsa. He would turn us around...his biggest problem has always been that he drives his players into the ground and they are toast three-quarters of the way through the season. He does not suffer fools and Villa would be better for it, from top to bottom. Some of the suits would likely hear a few home truths, albeit in Spanish.
you reckon he looked like he was gone by his face and actions today ?
you reckon he looked like he was gone by his face and actions today ?
What did he do?
hes out next week . I can assure youIf he's definitely going, why wait til next week.
hes out next week . I can assure youIf he's definitely going, why wait til next week.
It makes no sense unless you're counting Monday as next week?
Just to get this straight JP (because your OMG 100% ITK reputation hangs on this) - when you say 'next week' do you mean 'after we probably lose to Swansea' or do you mean 'now'?hes phonimg me tomorrow. Ill private message you mate ;)
no idea - he knows but wont tell me ..arrgghhh ;)Ask him if his initials are C A
no idea - he knows but wont tell me ..arrgghhh ;)Ask him if his initials are C A
[/quot]
doesnt he need a lot of money thou ;)
I hope it aint Pearson ffs
I hope it aint Pearson ffs
You and me both. It would be a desperate appointment.
no idea - he knows but wont tell me ..arrgghhh ;)Ask him if his initials are C A
David moyes
No offence, but why would JuanPablo know who the next manager is? Are we clutching at straws?
No offence, but why would JuanPablo know who the next manager is? Are we clutching at straws?
cant give that info mate . sorry
By the way its not Moyes and its not Rodgers .
LOLno idea - he knows but wont tell me ..arrgghhh ;)Ask him if his initials are C A
Curbishley, Alan.
No offence, but why would JuanPablo know who the next manager is? Are we clutching at straws?
cant give that info mate . sorry
If it is the case JP and I am not questioning you then the decision was made regardless of today's result I guess?
this manager isnt in the betting market - not that Ive looked at any names
And you're confident that he's in a position that he definitely would be ITK ?No offence, but why would JuanPablo know who the next manager is? Are we clutching at straws?
cant give that info mate . sorry
If it is the case JP and I am not questioning you then the decision was made regardless of today's result I guess?
Ill find out more tomorrow with a call
hes not telling me fuck all with texts
Im having to send him names and hes replying No on the three I said
Votes can be edited.
We've already got him.this manager isnt in the betting market - not that Ive looked at any names
David Brent?
I still think they will go for premier experience and somebody who has saved a side from the drop.....didn't Bryan Robson save West Brom from the drop.....?Nigel Pearson?
Votes can be edited.
Thanks Legion. I'm having difficulty editing it despite my (frustrated and random) clicking and right clicking. Is there a button somewhere?
I still think they will go for premier experience and somebody who has saved a side from the drop.....didn't Bryan Robson save West Brom from the drop.....?Nigel Pearson?
Votes can be edited.
Thanks Legion. I'm having difficulty editing it despite my (frustrated and random) clicking and right clicking. Is there a button somewhere?
Sorry. It had not been set as editable. You should be able to do it now.
this manager isnt in the betting market - not that Ive looked at any names
Ancelotti?
Prandeli?
Bielsa?
He never said he did. It's his mate that knowsthis manager isnt in the betting market - not that Ive looked at any names
You're starting to bore. You don't know shit.
Ancelotti?
Prandeli?
Bielsa?
lets hope
He never said he did. It's his mate that knowsthis manager isnt in the betting market - not that Ive looked at any names
You're starting to bore. You don't know shit.
It seems to me that Lerner appoints managers that he likes personally. He now needs to appoint a bastard that wins games.
Like who though?
this manager isnt in the betting market - not that Ive looked at any names
David Brent?
I hope it aint Pearson ffs
You and me both. It would be a desperate appointment.
its not
hes just told me
Dusty Bin.
tried the Norwegian commentator link but failed
ffkn technology I feel old and drained again tonight,dont know what could possibly be wrongtried the Norwegian commentator link but failed
I had sorted it for you.
Tim Sherwood: 'We're upbeat' despite disappointment of seventh Premier League defeat of the season
Sherwood believes there were positives to take out of the 2-0 setback against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge
By BastardSpawnofBaggieBill
Tim Sherwood remained surprisingly upbeat despite watching Aston Villa slip to another defeat at Chelsea.
The Villa boss reckons his side were positive, forward-thinking and are finally buying into his demands during the 2-0 reverse at Stamford Bridge - but still the results show no sign of improvement.
“I thought we were better than them to be honest before that mistake (for the first goal)," he said.
“There wasn’t a great deal in it but we were certainly holding our own and creating more chances than them.
“I thought we carried the ball well.
“We had good possession of the football."
“We created our own chances. Our full-backs got forward at the right times, Carles Gil and Jack Grealish, especially in the first period, were a threat in between lines.
“We had good possession of the football and were in control of the football and in control of the game in the first period.
“We’re upbeat in there. We’re obviously disappointed that we lost again and we’re in a precarious position in the league.
“But there are positives out of the game.
“We have to start winning football matches because that’s what it’s all about. Onwards and upwards.
William Munneywhat him outta missourri
Bootsy Collins.
yes set up in dry goods in San Francisco so they say.no way,a killer of children
Bootsy Collins.
George Clinton
Blew up a train full of women and children when he was drinking, so the story goes.whos the owner of this establishment then brian
Time out. I have got money on France.misfire
Avram Grant
I see your Butros Butros Gali and raise you Lami Dozo.
Avram Grant
If you can get him out of the massage parlour
I think Southampton away was the first indication that Sherwood doesnt have a scooby.Talking is Scooby Doo, how about Velma Von Dinkenstein?
Shaggy.
Shaggy.
As long as its not Scrappy. Always hated that little bastard.
Shaggy.
As long as its not Scrappy. Always hated that little bastard.
It's Pep Guardiola isn't it.I was the fella that was going to tell jp tomorrow
A chocolate teapot.
Andrew Greaves?
Ted Bundy.hes dead
Well, spin my nipple-nuts and send me to Alaska.youre enjoying this aren't you
Ted Bundy.hes dead
I think the joke's worn a bit thin now.surely theres a hidden message here
The easiest thing to do is come on here and claim that you've 'heard' that we might change our manager after 7 defeats in 9 games.mr confrontational ive noticed
It's bullshit and we're so desperate we are actually listening to ''ITK'' garbage.are we not trying to lighten the mood
The easiest thing to do is come on here and claim that you've 'heard' that we might change our manager after 7 defeats in 9 games.mr confrontational ive noticed
It's bullshit and we're so desperate we are actually listening to ''ITK'' garbage.are we not trying to lighten the mood
hes dead tooTed Bundy.hes dead
Have to be Jeff Dahmer then
is that your forename or surnameThe easiest thing to do is come on here and claim that you've 'heard' that we might change our manager after 7 defeats in 9 games.mr confrontational ive noticed
No, the name's Clampy.
is that your forename or surnameThe easiest thing to do is come on here and claim that you've 'heard' that we might change our manager after 7 defeats in 9 games.mr confrontational ive noticed
No, the name's Clampy.
Does anyone think Sherwood should stay?
The easiest thing to do is come on here and claim that you've 'heard' that we might change our manager after 7 defeats in 9 games.mr confrontational ive noticed
what sort of username is thatis that your forename or surnameThe easiest thing to do is come on here and claim that you've 'heard' that we might change our manager after 7 defeats in 9 games.mr confrontational ive noticed
No, the name's Clampy.
It's my username.
what sort of username is thatis that your forename or surnameThe easiest thing to do is come on here and claim that you've 'heard' that we might change our manager after 7 defeats in 9 games.mr confrontational ive noticed
No, the name's Clampy.
It's my username.
id love to knowwhat sort of username is thatis that your forename or surnameThe easiest thing to do is come on here and claim that you've 'heard' that we might change our manager after 7 defeats in 9 games.mr confrontational ive noticed
No, the name's Clampy.
It's my username.
There's a reason behind everyone's username.
Does anyone think Sherwood should stay?
Sherwood and Butch.
id love to knowwhat sort of username is thatis that your forename or surnameThe easiest thing to do is come on here and claim that you've 'heard' that we might change our manager after 7 defeats in 9 games.mr confrontational ive noticed
No, the name's Clampy.
It's my username.
There's a reason behind everyone's username.
id love to knowwhat sort of username is thatis that your forename or surnameThe easiest thing to do is come on here and claim that you've 'heard' that we might change our manager after 7 defeats in 9 games.mr confrontational ive noticed
No, the name's Clampy.
It's my username.
There's a reason behind everyone's username.
Does anyone think Sherwood should stay?
Does anyone think Sherwood should stay?
I never read the comments therein, but Mrs LFS reckons that about 90% of posters on the club's Facebook page match report are in favour of giving him more time.
clampy and malandro sitting in a tree
yeah but okclampy and malandro sitting in a tree
Give it a rest
That's a pretty good summation.
The bit about motivation for taking the jobs and the (lack of) management of their relationships to the players could closer to the truth than we'd care to think about.
It's also why I get annoyed with the assumption that most decent players will be able to walk into management and be a success. How many world class players have actually gone on to have a genuinely successful managerial career at a meaningful level? I can honestly only think of a handful.
yeah but okclampy and malandro sitting in a tree
Give it a rest
Does anyone think Sherwood should stay?
I never read the comments therein, but Mrs LFS reckons that about 90% of posters on the club's Facebook page match report are in favour of giving him more time.
Turkeys do vote for Christmas
are you in the same treeyeah but okclampy and malandro sitting in a tree
Give it a rest
I genuinely struggle to think of a poster who contributions are less interesting. It's an astounding accolade.
are you in the same treeyeah but okclampy and malandro sitting in a tree
Give it a rest
I genuinely struggle to think of a poster who contributions are less interesting. It's an astounding accolade.
I don't think we should have employed the bloke past the end of last season whether he kept us up or not. He's spent terribly and his tactics suck. He's an arrogant arse too. The problem is, with the transfer window shut, a disinterested owner and such a bad start, I don't see anyone that could turn it around. We need someone to take us back to basics. Someone to make us more defensive. If it means a load of one-nil and nil-nil games, so be it.
Basically he kept us up whilst getting to the cup final , he talked a good game and when we lost well it was due to losers in the team and he would sort it out ...
- Losing to a John Carver managed Newcastle
- Southampton 6-1
- Just about mustering a draw against an absolutely woeful QPR at home
- Losing to a relegated Burnely at home
- The cup final
All brushed aside , he kept us up ,,he got us to that final he just needs a preason and his own players.Well here we are mid October, 1 win all season with a team that changes every week whilst he tries something till it works.
Lets take today Gestede upfront alone where its clear he isn't the most talented with the ball at his feet so you need to make the best use of him by getting cross's into the box.We have little to no width and put few balls in the box he can head.We play Gil and Grealish behind a striker who isn't quick or mobile enough to make clever runs off the last defender or good enough to hold the ball up so they can run past him.WTF does he tell the players to do when its set up like that ?
How the hell do you decide to go 5 at the back with 2 strikers against stoke to a 4-2-3-1 against Chelsea ..
He is a great talker but he can't back it up ..and he needs to go.TBF i think all his talk of being a fighter etc is all just more talk he knows he is getting sacked an is just waiting for it and the pay off.
John Beck please
Like TSM1 and TSM2 he looks like he has aged an awful lot he almost looked like he had been crying and looked broken in the press interview this club is becoming a graveyard for managers.
He's feeling sorry for himself he's finding out he's not as good as he thinks he is as a manager. I imagine he's baffled by this and that his captain and title win as player leaves him devastated he can't develop and actual manage this great club. Its dawned on him he's out of his depth he's reverting to type of being defensive in his comments which actually sound ridiculous. I think he knows his time is up and the motd interview showed his fighting talk but that doesn't fool people anymore as its the players and team who need fight.
He's feeling sorry for himself he's finding out he's not as good as he thinks he is as a manager. I imagine he's baffled by this and that his captain and title win as player leaves him devastated he can't develop and actual manage this great club. Its dawned on him he's out of his depth he's reverting to type of being defensive in his comments which actually sound ridiculous. I think he knows his time is up and the motd interview showed his fighting talk but that doesn't fool people anymore as its the players and team who need fight.
I've heard it all now Goals on Sunday "Tim Sherwood is desperately trying to get Aston Villa out of the hole they've got themselves into"
Errrrrr??!!
If Rowett was given the gig I think I'd just call it a day to be honest.
I've heard it all now Goals on Sunday "Tim Sherwood is desperately trying to get Aston Villa out of the hole they've got themselves into"And these fuckers get paid for saying this and other diatribe!
Errrrrr??!!
If Rowett was given the gig I think I'd just call it a day to be honest and accept we are mightily fucked until Lerner dies because no one is buying his club in the current condition.There was a time when recently crowned European champions were handed over to a chap called Graham Turner at best an average second division operator managing the might Shrewsbury Town but despite my disgust I kept the faith and held my seat at Villa Park....rest is a sad story!
yes I thought he's gone a bit down low too after his teasing yesterday
I've changed my vote from undecided to yes
I've changed my vote from undecided to yes
Bottler
I've changed my vote from undecided to yes
Bottler
I've changed my vote from "Yes" to "FFS Get On With It!"
Why on earth are you obsessed with Jack, Gill, Gestede and Ayew? If there's any chance of progression over the next few seasons then 3 out of those 4 will have to be long gone.
I'm baffled, which three? The youngster who has only just broken into the first team and looks a great prospect, the midfielder who has barely been given a chance but has looked the most creative player in the side on the few occasions he's been given a start, or the two new signings with a few games between them?
I actually think we've got a decent squad, certainly stronger looking than last season but we lack anybody with the know how to get the best use out of it.
Some pretty uninspiring names on the list of potential new managers on that sackrace site, but Aitor Karanka seems to be doing a decent job at 'Boro and maybe worth a punt if we could prise him away
Looks as if it's just a matter of when rather than if, now.
Yet another huge dollop of compo to spew up. Shame for TS, I think he definitely deserved a crack at it after keeping us up last season, but from his comments about the players not being his preferred signings, he looks to have painted himself into a corner from which it will be very difficult to escape.
Does anybody trust the senior management to get in a decent replacement?
Looks as if it's just a matter of when rather than if, now.
Yet another huge dollop of compo to spew up. Shame for TS, I think he definitely deserved a crack at it after keeping us up last season, but from his comments about the players not being his preferred signings, he looks to have painted himself
Into a corner from which it will be very difficult to escape.
Does anybody trust the senior management to get in a decent replacement?
Looks as if it's just a matter of when rather than if, now.
Yet another huge dollop of compo to spew up. Shame for TS, I think he definitely deserved a crack at it after keeping us up last season, but from his comments about the players not being his preferred signings, he looks to have painted himself
Into a corner from which it will be very difficult to escape.
Does anybody trust the senior management to get in a decent replacement?
Ultimately it doesn't matter whether we trust them or not, they're the ones making the decision. It's clear that Sherwood isn't the right man, so hopefully the new people with footballing knowledge, who are in place, will help find a more suitable manager.
Some pretty uninspiring names on the list of potential new managers on that sackrace site, but Aitor Karanka seems to be doing a decent job at 'Boro and maybe worth a punt if we could prise him away
Add to our great file of untried and untested managers.
We need to act now and sack him. What's the point in giving him till the Swansea game, even if we win it'll be just another false dawn. The man is totally out of his depth.
Some pretty uninspiring names on the list of potential new managers on that sackrace site, but Aitor Karanka seems to be doing a decent job at 'Boro and maybe worth a punt if we could prise him away
Add to our great file of untried and untested managers.
Who do you think, then? Moyes has said he's staying at Real; don't think Rodgers would see us as big enough for him or risk a relegation on his CV (and FWIW I don't think he'd be any good for us anyway). So that leaves the likes of Pearson and Dyche. Karanka was assistant to Mourinho at Real Madrid and has got a 52%+ win rate at 'Boro. He also spent his playing career as a central defender for Bilbao and Real Madrid, so should be able to organise a defence. Think he's at least worth adding to the mix
Some pretty uninspiring names on the list of potential new managers on that sackrace site, but Aitor Karanka seems to be doing a decent job at 'Boro and maybe worth a punt if we could prise him away
Add to our great file of untried and untested managers.
Who do you think, then? Moyes has said he's staying at Real; don't think Rodgers would see us as big enough for him or risk a relegation on his CV (and FWIW I don't think he'd be any good for us anyway). So that leaves the likes of Pearson and Dyche. Karanka was assistant to Mourinho at Real Madrid and has got a 52%+ win rate at 'Boro. He also spent his playing career as a central defender for Bilbao and Real Madrid, so should be able to organise a defence. Think he's at least worth adding to the mix
I don't, another manager with no experience in a top division, what's the point? Rolling two dice and hoping they come up a pair of 6's. There's a world full of managers out there. We have money. We have a spotlight for them. Thinking there's only claptrap like Dyche, Pearson et all because theyre English and out of work is the kind of attitude that has progressively got us in to this position. His playing achievements also have no bearing on him as a manager, there's so much proof of that out there I wouldn't know where to start listing them. Fox is paid a princely sum and if all he can come up with is Sherwood, with 6 months experience and out of work and someone of his ilk then he might as well fuck off too because it just isn't good enough. It's also not unrealistic to think anyone who isn't a complete rookie or a lower league manager would come, other clubs do it, they pull of coups or decent appointments, the more we think like a tiny, shit pot club, the more we become a tiny sit pot club.
been said before any decent manager, is going to want a war chest, think that might be why we go for wannabes
Based on what has come out today he cannot make it past tomorrow.
Based on what has come out today he cannot make it past tomorrow.
What's that then, have missed most of today.
I said I don't want anyone with no experience of a top division job and it's not unrealistic to think otherwise, sorry if I worded it wrong.
As for names I don't have a vast knowledge of European football but these spring to mind as a lot better than what we have and more palatable than another Dyche, Pearson or lower league risk.
Prandelli
Moyes
Rodgers
Bielsa
Bento
Garde
Yakin
I said I don't want anyone with no experience of a top division job and it's not unrealistic to think otherwise, sorry if I worded it wrong.
As for names I don't have a vast knowledge of European football but these spring to mind as a lot better than what we have and more palatable than another Dyche, Pearson or lower league risk.
Prandelli
Moyes
Rodgers
Bielsa
Bento
Garde
Yakin
I've never heard of most of them but they sound sexy with their foreigness, so if we got any of them I'd be excited. No doubt they are good, I'm just a bit ignorant of any football outside of Villa.
What I do know about Villa is this: if we went for an intelligent, well thought out appointment I would be absolutely astonished. Easy and preferably cheap is our modus operandi.
So it's everybody's fault but his own...f**k him off asapBased on what has come out today he cannot make it past tomorrow.
What's that then, have missed most of today.
In short, we have an interview with Sky where he tells them he is bored having to watch us and that the players won't play as he tells them to.
We also have his mate who is chairman at Swindon having a swing on his behalf on Talk Shite about how he wasn't allowed to sign 3 or 4 players he wanted and that some of those that did come in were foisted on him.
Did I miss Juan Pablo's ITK update today ?
Biesla for me. Give this a read: http://8by8mag.com/el-loco/
Biesla for me. Give this a read: http://8by8mag.com/el-loco/
I'd love Bielsa. It'd be crazy.
In an ideal world he'd bring one of his disciples - mentioned in the article - with him to step in after the seemingly inevitable exhaustion.
He would be the ideal guy to identify and build our footballing philosophy. We just might need some peacemakers to make it sustainable.
Biesla for me. Give this a read: http://8by8mag.com/el-loco/
I'd love Bielsa. It'd be crazy.
In an ideal world he'd bring one of his disciples - mentioned in the article - with him to step in after the seemingly inevitable exhaustion.
He would be the ideal guy to identify and build our footballing philosophy. We just might need some peacemakers to make it sustainable.
So you want to appoint a 60 year old eccentric who has never managed in the premier league, has limited experience as a manager in major european leagues and has never won anything. Whats the attraction?
Did I miss Juan Pablo's ITK update today ?
Sherwood knows he's out so sounding off and any way he can to distance himself from responsibility . he's failed unfortunately for him rosler left Leeds today Sherwood next in my view.
Sherwood knows he's out so sounding off and any way he can to distance himself from responsibility . he's failed unfortunately for him rosler left Leeds today Sherwood next in my view.
If Tim plays it cute, he will get the sack here, wait for Evans to get his inevitable marching orders at Leeds, and get the Leeds job himself
That's roughly a league and a half above his level, so it could work out well for him.
Did I miss Juan Pablo's ITK update today ?
JP is sound. His source is either a WUM or full of you know what. Sorry, John.
I have been mentioning Bielsa for a while now, more in hope than anything - he's probably too much of his own man for Fox and Lerner. He has two failings that I see...namely he doesn't stand any shit from the suits and has no issue walking, and secondly he runs his players into the ground which means they are spent well before the end of the season - maybe with a bigger, better squad we could cope. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing how he got on...we would never accuse him of not being tactically astute !!Well on the plus most of our squad aren't match fit yet so that shouldn't be a problem.
Just watched swansea get done by stoke and both teams were terrible which indicates how crap we are. Another young manager relatively inexperienced no thanks.
Tomorrow could be the day it seems. Some of the stuff that has come out of Sherwood beggars belief.
Tomorrow could be the day it seems. Some of the stuff that has come out of Sherwood beggars belief.
Has he eaten one of those Burger King black buns?
Just watched swansea get done by stoke and both teams were terrible which indicates how crap we are. Another young manager relatively inexperienced no thanks.
So you're judging Garry Monk on one game and not his entire body of work?
Tomorrow could be the day it seems. Some of the stuff that has come out of Sherwood beggars belief.
I would think that Fox is talking to potential candidates after all it's his reputation as well, still trying to figure out why he has isolated Kozak.
Just watched swansea get done by stoke and both teams were terrible which indicates how crap we are. Another young manager relatively inexperienced no thanks.
So you're judging Garry Monk on one game and not his entire body of work?
The point was made earlier that Gary Monk has done well at Swansea because he knows the way the football club works, he's knows the players, he knows the system, he knows where he fits in and what the parameters are. Coming to Villa, with all the issues that are here, would be a totally different test. The appointment would be as risky as Sherwood's was.
Just watched swansea get done by stoke and both teams were terrible which indicates how crap we are. Another young manager relatively inexperienced no thanks.
So you're judging Garry Monk on one game and not his entire body of work?
The point was made earlier that Gary Monk has done well at Swansea because he knows the way the football club works, he's knows the players, he knows the system, he knows where he fits in and what the parameters are. Coming to Villa, with all the issues that are here, would be a totally different test. The appointment would be as risky as Sherwood's was.
Monk has done well at Swansea but yes, he would be risky for us in our situation. Also, why would he leave Swansea to come to us?
Just watched swansea get done by stoke and both teams were terrible which indicates how crap we are. Another young manager relatively inexperienced no thanks.
So you're judging Garry Monk on one game and not his entire body of work?
The point was made earlier that Gary Monk has done well at Swansea because he knows the way the football club works, he's knows the players, he knows the system, he knows where he fits in and what the parameters are. Coming to Villa, with all the issues that are here, would be a totally different test. The appointment would be as risky as Sherwood's was.
Monk has done well at Swansea but yes, he would be risky for us in our situation. Also, why would he leave Swansea to come to us?
Dear god that would be a disaster. The whole reason that Sherwood has failed is that does not have the experience or clout to be the centre of affairs at the club. We are in urgent need of the kind of impact that Sir Graham had; someone who like Sir Graham can arrive, will call the club for the ill-run shambles that it is and say it’s my way or no way. We have been floundering for too long now, testing out one approach, changing tack trying another, changing tack again and repeat ad nausea. We need stability and if it ain’t coming from above, then it sure as hell needs to come from the manager
Just watched swansea get done by stoke and both teams were terrible which indicates how crap we are. Another young manager relatively inexperienced no thanks.
So you're judging Garry Monk on one game and not his entire body of work?
The point was made earlier that Gary Monk has done well at Swansea because he knows the way the football club works, he's knows the players, he knows the system, he knows where he fits in and what the parameters are. Coming to Villa, with all the issues that are here, would be a totally different test. The appointment would be as risky as Sherwood's was.
Monk has done well at Swansea but yes, he would be risky for us in our situation. Also, why would he leave Swansea to come to us?
Dear god that would be a disaster. The whole reason that Sherwood has failed is that does not have the experience or clout to be the centre of affairs at the club. We are in urgent need of the kind of impact that Sir Graham had; someone who like Sir Graham can arrive, will call the club for the ill-run shambles that it is and say it’s my way or no way. We have been floundering for too long now, testing out one approach, changing tack trying another, changing tack again and repeat ad nausea. We need stability and if it ain’t coming from above, then it sure as hell needs to come from the manager
I'm not sure Monk is the man for us, but Sherwood has not failed due to lack of experience or clout. He's failed because he's too arrogant and he doesn't have the first clue how to organise a team.
I wouldn't want Monk.
Swansea look like us under Lambert at the moment, with all the cutting edge of a butter knife. Until they play us of course, then they might find their scoring touch again.
This is turning into a car crash
This is turning into a car crash
I notice that there are still a significant number of people who don't want Sherwood to go, or are yet to decide.ive been openly saying he deserves every chance to turn things round. My criteria were either cast adrift at the bottom by 6/7 points or still bottom 3 after Christmas. Looks increasingly unlikely that he will turn things around now, especially after the comments he's made the last week or so. I reckon he's gone now, just a matter of time. No idea who the replacement should be, or who it will likely be. But we really cannot afford to get this one wrong. This looks as bad a situation as I've ever known at Villa, Levico.
I would genuinely like to hear why they feel that way. It seems to me that we are on the highway to hell with Sherwood but maybe I'm missing something.
Give me some straws to cling to!
I notice that there are still a significant number of people who don't want Sherwood to go, or are yet to decide.
I would genuinely like to hear why they feel that way. It seems to me that we are on the highway to hell with Sherwood but maybe I'm missing something.
Give me some straws to cling to!
This is turning into a car crash
It was car crash 5 years ago, thing is we keep pulling bodies out of the wreckage and the accident investigators haven't figured out who's at fault yet.
Sir Alex. Always had a good word about us, and must be bored by now.Only cause he dicked us 95% of the time.
Collymore on Twitter posting that he has been removed from his programme column for supporting Sherwood/criticizing the board
Really? Interesting if true
Collymore on Twitter posting that he has been removed from his programme column for supporting Sherwood/criticizing the board
would they have done this if he was about to go ?? :-\
Really? Interesting if true
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snmi6a
Really? Interesting if true
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snmi6a
He was doing so well until he backed Sherwood unequivocally and talked about going the Doug Ellis Stand at the age of 6.
No Stan, even if you refer to it by it's current name now, it was still the Witton Lane Stand when you were 6.
Yet more bad press. Still at least people are finally starting to see Tom Fox for the incompetent and patronising halfwit he really is.
Yet more bad press. Still at least people are finally starting to see Tom Fox for the incompetent and patronising halfwit he really is.
He made a poor decision with giving Sherwood a long term deal, but other than I think he's done a pretty good job. So that seems massively over the top.
Really? Interesting if true
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snmi6a
Really? Interesting if true
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snmi6a
He was doing so well until he backed Sherwood unequivocally and talked about going the Doug Ellis Stand at the age of 6.
No Stan, even if you refer to it by it's current name now, it was still the Witton Lane Stand when you were 6.
Yet more bad press. Still at least people are finally starting to see Tom Fox for the incompetent and patronising halfwit he really is.
Yet more bad press. Still at least people are finally starting to see Tom Fox for the incompetent and patronising halfwit he really is.
He made a poor decision with giving Sherwood a long term deal, but other than I think he's done a pretty good job. So that seems massively over the top.
But when he took over, Fox said that fans should expect the club to be competing at a higher level than we have in the previous few years. So far, he's appointed a manager that many people on here could see was a poor choice and offered him a ridiculous contract. Re-reading his interview from 10 months ago, there are some very interesting claims
“We are going to try very hard to live up to those expectations and I certainly don’t want the fans resigning themselves to where we have been in the last three or four years".
Yeah yeah, Tommy
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/
It's still too early to judge Fox. I actually think he's putting the correct footballing structure in place. Unfortunately he has made a big mistake when it comes to the manager, let's hope he rectifies it very soon.
Fox has been in charge for over a year and for 3 and a bit transfer windows and there seems to be no sign of improvement ( we've gone backwards, in the only thing that matters, our League ranking). When is it time to judge him?
Yet more bad press. Still at least people are finally starting to see Tom Fox for the incompetent and patronising halfwit he really is.
A money man with no clue about football. Hendrik Almstadt, if you look in to most of his experience gained at Arsenal, then no, I'm sorry but the guy yesterday who claimed he has enough knowledge to be Director of Football at one of Englands largest clubs is wrong, most of his background is surprise surprise in money again.
We have a bunch of fucking clueless, corporate money men dabbling their hands in something they have no experience of. No wonder we look like we are groping around in the dark most of the time, it's because we are. It seems we are now looking at basically computer games to buy players, no wonder we look like a load of randomly selected pieces taped together. There is no joined up thinking still, we play nippy, sprightly ball playing midfielders.... then buy a carthorse target man upfront who moves like a Mammoth.
It's still too early to judge Fox. I actually think he's putting the correct footballing structure in place. Unfortunately he has made a big mistake when it comes to the manager, let's hope he rectifies it very soon.
I don't. He's got in place a commercial officer who got sacked from Spurs for not generating enough money. Given a friend from Arsenal a huge promotion in to a job role he's never take on before and hand picked a manager with 6 months experience to take on one of the hardest roles in England. Paddy Reilly bought back? Has the scouting been particularly good at Liverpool the last couple of years? Not to my mind, haven't they wasted an absolute fortune?
I'm not convinced by Fox at all so far, I don't trust his instincts because he was so slow to fire Lambert, questioned the fans over it and employed the above.
Fox has been in charge for over a year and for 3 and a bit transfer windows and there seems to be no sign of improvement ( we've gone backwards, in the only thing that matters, our League ranking). When is it time to judge him?
I thought he started in October last year, Chico. He inherited the Lambert mess.
Fox has been in charge for over a year and for 3 and a bit transfer windows and there seems to be no sign of improvement ( we've gone backwards, in the only thing that matters, our League ranking). When is it time to judge him?
I thought he started in October last year, Chico. He inherited the Lambert mess.
Fox has been in charge for over a year and for 3 and a bit transfer windows and there seems to be no sign of improvement ( we've gone backwards, in the only thing that matters, our League ranking). When is it time to judge him?
I thought he started in October last year, Chico. He inherited the Lambert mess.
He joined in August, 2014
Fox has been in charge for over a year and for 3 and a bit transfer windows and there seems to be no sign of improvement ( we've gone backwards, in the only thing that matters, our League ranking). When is it time to judge him?
I thought he started in October last year, Chico. He inherited the Lambert mess.
He joined in August, 2014
But only started in October.
Fox has been in charge for over a year and for 3 and a bit transfer windows and there seems to be no sign of improvement ( we've gone backwards, in the only thing that matters, our League ranking). When is it time to judge him?
I thought he started in October last year, Chico. He inherited the Lambert mess.
He joined in August, 2014
But only started in October.
OK, so can I judge him in 2 months' time then? He's got a bit to do if he's going to change my mind in that time.
'Moving the deckchairs on the Titanic' is the expression that springs to mind.
Any manager with half a brain would have serious doubts about joining us...
Really? Interesting if true
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snmi6a
The Torygraph's Matt Law is in overdrive mode.
Aston Villa may turn to Swansea manager Garry Monk if Tim Sherwood fails to turn around their season (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/11941406/Aston-Villa-may-turn-to-Swansea-manager-Garry-Monk-if-Tim-Sherwood-fails-to-turn-around-their-season.html)
Just watched swansea get done by stoke and both teams were terrible which indicates how crap we are. Another young manager relatively inexperienced no thanks.
So you're judging Garry Monk on one game and not his entire body of work?
The point was made earlier that Gary Monk has done well at Swansea because he knows the way the football club works, he's knows the players, he knows the system, he knows where he fits in and what the parameters are. Coming to Villa, with all the issues that are here, would be a totally different test. The appointment would be as risky as Sherwood's was.
Any manager with half a brain would have serious doubts about joining us having read this.
Neville and Carragher (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-pundits-gary-neville-10295022#rlabs=2%20rt$sitewide%20p$1)
It's all so depressing but I guess it's how others see us.
Tony I love your posts but you can't get suicidal over it. If this is our year so be it ; we have played fast and loose with relegation for years and we probably now deserve to go. At least we know we can beat Championship opposition, even with Tim at the helm
They're right that the problems run deep at Villa, that's obvious, BUT that does not mean Sherwood isn't doing a terrible job. This is the problem that football pundits seem to have, they can't or won't identify that it's two seperate issues. Sherwood can't organise a team and can't settle on how he wants his team to play and I really don't see how anyone can launch a defence of him on that front. If you couple that with the statements he's been making to the media he really does not deserve anymore time.
Looks like Stan is upset because he was overlooked for the Director of Football post in favour of someone he thought less qualified than himself.
I wouldn't put him back on the payroll either, once was enough.
EXCLUSIVE: JERMAINE JENAS: Aston Villa will get relegated but it won’t be Tim Sherwood’s fault
Yahoo Sport's global football ambassador wonders why 'arrogant' Villa expect to do better than last season when they have sold their best players
By Jermaine Jenas
3 hours ago
Tim Sherwood apparently has one game left to save his job after Aston Villa’s latest defeat, at Chelsea on Saturday, but I don’t understand why the club’s board is surprised at the position they are in.
From what I hear the players at Villa like Sherwood as a manager, so he hasn’t lost the group. Villa are where they deserve to be in the table simply based on the squad they have. When I was at QPR and we got promoted to the Premier League, we went into that season knowing we would be in a relegation fight. I don't understand why Villa are not in that mindset, or what gives them the arrogance to think otherwise.
My first dealings with Sherwood were when he was doing his coaching badges at Spurs. He wanted to become a manager and you could tell he had the credentials for it. I was immediately impressed by the way he tried to reward players who he thought were working hard in training. He was the one person who always stood up to Harry Redknapp and told him who he thought should and shouldn't be playing.
Harry surrounded himself with a lot of people to get different points of view, but not many others were prepared to go against the grain. Tim took an interest in me from an early stage, especially when I went through a period of not playing. He instilled a belief in me that I had lost a little bit in myself, and after working with him in the Under-21s I got back into the first team and was playing in the Champions League.
Sherwood is an emotional manager and that can bring huge benefits. When Villa got to the Cup final that was largely due to his passion, energy and belief in players like Jack Grealish, Fabian Delph and Christian Benteke, who all improved after Sherwood arrived. He’s proved that when he works with good players, he can make good things happen.
The only time I’ve seen Sherwood’s emotional side have a negative effect is when Tottenham lost a game at Chelsea and he dug out a few people publically and questioned some of his players’ “mentality”. That’s about as bad as it gets for a player because it implies you are weak, and that rant upset some of Tottenham’s squad. But he’s still developing and learning as a manager – this is only his second job, and his first one didn’t last long - and I think he learned a lot from that.
Not that he won’t still have those types of discussions with players to their faces. There was an incident at Tottenham, at a time where he wasn’t even manager, when he was watching a game against Chelsea from the stands and Benoit Assou-Ekotto did something that severely annoyed him. We were in the dressing room after the match, having lost, and suddenly Sherwood came flying through the door.
I can’t remember what Benny had done exactly, but Sherwood was angrily letting him know what he thought about it. I was taken aback because he wasn’t the assistant manager or manager; he was mainly brought it to observe. But he showed he was prepared to say the things that others maybe weren’t. He’s argumentative, but sometimes it’s good to have an argument.
You won’t ever take that emotion out of him. That’s why he throws his jacket around and screams and kicks. One of the things that used to frustrate him was how simple the game really is, and how complicated people make it. He’s a massive believer in working harder than your opponent, which was also what his game was about as a player. He would get frustrated if players weren’t prepared to do a bit of extra work in training, and especially if that then translated onto the pitch.
I remember at half-time of a reserve match at Spurs, he was so angry he literally lined up every player, and one by one told them what they were doing wrong. I’ve never seen that before – a manager going through every single player and just annihilating them. But at the end of it was a positive message – let’s improve. It was refreshing – it’s a different type of management to what we’ve become used to. Everyone expects managers to be so prim and proper and media trained, but I prefer the passionate approach that Tim has, and I’d like to see it more.
I think he did a decent job at Spurs overall, but the one thing he didn't get to do as a manager - until the last transfer window - was buy players. Villa’s summer recruitment hasn’t gone to plan, but the question is how many of those signings were Sherwood’s.
He was interested in buying established Premier League players like Aaron Lennon, Andros Townsend, Emmanuel Adebayor and Esteban Cambiasso, but instead they have signed a lot of young players from the French league. They are using something akin to the 'Moneyball' system led by a guy called Paddy Reilly. When I was at Villa Park in 2011, he was the one showing us DVDs of the opposition and giving us a rundown of the players we'd be facing.
But he's been massively promoted and now seems to have a hand in most major decisions made at the club, including transfer dealings. I understand it’s him who suggests players to the board, and many of those are the ones who have been signed. When you take into account the sales of Benteke and Delph, Villa’s net spend over the summer was just £7m, which is a pittance in Premier League terms. They were a bad team last season, who did well to avoid relegation, and now they are a worse team. They’ve lost their two best players. So what did Villa’s board expect to happen?
I'm not sure Sherwood has been given what he wanted in terms of transfer targets, and now he is being asked to turn water into wine. That’s why I think Villa will get relegated, with or without Tim Sherwood.
One of the things that used to frustrate him was how simple the game really is, and how complicated people make it.https://streamable.com/jwz6?t=1.0
Wow, that's a hell of an article fron Jenas sticking up for his mate. I reckon Tim almost dictated that.
So which of these players didn't Sherwood want?
Vertout?
'I'm really pleased Jordan decided to choose Aston Villa over the other options he had and opt to continue his development with us,'
'He is only 22 years old but he is vastly experienced for someone that age'
'He has played over 140 games in Ligue 1 and is a really exciting young player.
'I know he is very highly rated over in France so we are delighted to get this deal over the line.'
Amavi?
Sherwood told the Birmingham Mail: "It’s someone we’ve been tracking for a long time."
“He was voted the best U21 player in Europe (by whoscored.com).
“He’s dynamic, gets forward, has a good delivery, and is a decent size for a left-back.
'He’s quick and aggressive and will be suited to the Premier League. He plays at a high tempo and French football is quite close to the English league so that will help.
“It will give us competition and will be a decent addition"
Gueye?
"What Idrissa gives you is 100% every time he plays," Sherwood said.
"He is wholehearted, he suits the Premier League and he loves the pace of the game.
"He is very aggressive, he gets at people, wants to tackle and wants to get on the football.
"He is brave in and out of possession - and that's something you want to see.
"We are really pleased with him. He has been outstanding."
Ayew?
“I’m really pleased to bring Jordan to the football club. He is a fantastic young player who is perfectly suited to the Premier League.”
Adama?
“I went to Barcelona and spoke to the representatives,”
“We made a huge effort to bring him to the club because I’ve known him for a couple of years."
“He is someone I have been tracking for a long time."
Lescott?
"Joleon is a player who has great Premier League experience and he'll be a huge help to the younger members of our squad,"
"I said before I didn't think someone of that experience would become available [for Villa], someone who ticks that 'experienced' box that would help out the group. If he became available then we would jump on him."
Rudy?
“I’ve known about Rudy since he was at Cardiff City and he is a player I’ve always admired."
“His goalscoring ratio last season was fantastic and he is someone who certainly knows how to find the back of the net."
“He’s a big, physical striker but he can play and I’m pleased to welcome him to the football club.”
There is one interesting point though, the opinion that Paddy Reilly has been promoted above his station, pretty much like the rest of them.
Really? Interesting if true
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snmi6a
makes me p1ss my self laughing at how arrogant Collymore is.
Why would Fox want to take any help from Collymore?
This is the player who rarely did anything for us, and left on a free after we paid £7m plus. I know he had his off the field problems when he was here, but sometimes you just need to shut it.
You've all gone to far too much effort. What a sycophantic little shit weasel Jenas is. Talking utter, utter bollocks.
There is one interesting point though, the opinion that Paddy Reilly has been promoted above his station, pretty much like the rest of them.
You've all gone to far too much effort. What a sycophantic little shit weasel Jenas is. Talking utter, utter bollocks.
It's more important that he's clearly heard all this from Sherwood or someone close to Sherwood. That the board haven't fired him for this immediately beggars belief - he's humiliating the club in public with his sneaky antics, and with impunity.
I don't get why pundits are blind to the immediate cause of the trouble.
Linked with Bob Bradley and Gary Monk today. Good god!So that might mean Randy actually appoints Bob Monkhouse instead.
Linked with Bob Bradley and Gary Monk today. Good god!
I can't believe he is still here, but then I was saying that about Lambert for what felt like an eternity.
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
Sherwood is finished at villa.
I'd be mortified if we replaced Sherwood with the likes of Bradley or Monk. They're the type of mental cheap as chips appointments that have got us into this mess in the first place.I think Monk will be anything but cheap as chips. In fact he'd cost more than what Randy would be willing to fork out. He's also be absolutely fucking bonkers to move here from Swansea.
The only time I’ve seen Sherwood’s emotional side have a negative effect is when Tottenham lost a game at Chelsea and he dug out a few people publically and questioned some of his players’ “mentality”. That’s about as bad as it gets for a player because it implies you are weak, and that rant upset some of Tottenham’s squad. But he’s still developing and learning as a manager – this is only his second job, and his first one didn’t last long - and I think he learned a lot from that.
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
Sherwood is finished at villa.Then why is he still here? Even if they hadn't got a replacement , if they were that definite surely he'd have gone already.
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
JP, I thought you were going to tell us after you had placed your bet on Monday...has something changed ?
I would be very happy if it was Bielsa - am I going to be very happy ? ;)
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
JP, I thought you were going to tell us after you had placed your bet on Monday...has something changed ?
I would be very happy if it was Bielsa - am I going to be very happy ? ;)
It's all very interesting enough, but it's the kind of thing you'd read on tbar.
Sherwood is finished at villa.
Before or after the Swansea game, JP?
Sherwood is finished at villa.
Before or after the Swansea game, JP?
Until the deal is done with the new boss I suppose .
No idea why they dont just get rid of TS now thou.
Its been like trying to get a wank off megan fox.
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
JP, I thought you were going to tell us after you had placed your bet on Monday...has something changed ?
I would be very happy if it was Bielsa - am I going to be very happy ? ;)
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
I have been waiting for an update from you from Sunday.
Do you know anything or are you or your source making it all up?
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
JP, I thought you were going to tell us after you had placed your bet on Monday...has something changed ?
I would be very happy if it was Bielsa - am I going to be very happy ? ;)
It's all very interesting enough, but it's the kind of thing you'd read on tbar.
Let me believe Bielsa will be our manager. God knows Villa has given me very little pleasure the past few years. Even the deluded hope they would make such a great appointment is something for me to hang on to.
So you dont know anything then?Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
I have been waiting for an update from you from Sunday.
Do you know anything or are you or your source making it all up?
I doubt it mate :)
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
JP, I thought you were going to tell us after you had placed your bet on Monday...has something changed ?
I would be very happy if it was Bielsa - am I going to be very happy ? ;)
It's all very interesting enough, but it's the kind of thing you'd read on tbar.
Let me believe Bielsa will be our manager. God knows Villa has given me very little pleasure the past few years. Even the deluded hope they would make such a great appointment is something for me to hang on to.
Can someone explain the attraction of Biesla please. He has no track record, is a maverick and is 60 years old.
So you dont know anything then?Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
I have been waiting for an update from you from Sunday.
Do you know anything or are you or your source making it all up?
I doubt it mate :)
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
JP, I thought you were going to tell us after you had placed your bet on Monday...has something changed ?
I would be very happy if it was Bielsa - am I going to be very happy ? ;)
It's all very interesting enough, but it's the kind of thing you'd read on tbar.
Let me believe Bielsa will be our manager. God knows Villa has given me very little pleasure the past few years. Even the deluded hope they would make such a great appointment is something for me to hang on to.
Can someone explain the attraction of Biesla please. He has no track record, is a maverick and is 60 years old.
IMO Rodgers would be a more progressive appointment if we can't snare Beisla or de Boer.
Why this thing with Biesla. He had no consistent track record, is 60 years old and not won a bean. Limited managerial experience in Europe as well
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
JP, I thought you were going to tell us after you had placed your bet on Monday...has something changed ?
I would be very happy if it was Bielsa - am I going to be very happy ? ;)
The new man is nearly done thats all i know
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
JP, I thought you were going to tell us after you had placed your bet on Monday...has something changed ?
I would be very happy if it was Bielsa - am I going to be very happy ? ;)
The new man is nearly done thats all i know
Hope you're right, and I hope it's not another has-been or rookie that has stained our club over the last 5 years.
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
JP, I thought you were going to tell us after you had placed your bet on Monday...has something changed ?
I would be very happy if it was Bielsa - am I going to be very happy ? ;)
The new man is nearly done thats all i know
Hope you're right, and I hope it's not another has-been or rookie that has stained our club over the last 5 years.
Well he aint scottish mate
Anything in this tweet?
Kristan Heneage @KHeneage
I also understand Bradley has been sounded out by #AVFC should they wish to replace Sherwood. He has two games left with Stabæk .
5:31 PM - 20 Oct 2015
I really really hope so PW.
Anything in this tweet?
Kristan Heneage @KHeneage
I also understand Bradley has been sounded out by #AVFC should they wish to replace Sherwood. He has two games left with Stabæk .
5:31 PM - 20 Oct 2015
Oh, what absolute bollocks.
Funny enough but this site went down for a back up the other night and curiosity got the better of me and I had a quick peep over at TBAR, it was very quiet with 5 users online. I guess nobody is working tirelessly anymore for them.Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
JP, I thought you were going to tell us after you had placed your bet on Monday...has something changed ?
I would be very happy if it was Bielsa - am I going to be very happy ? ;)
It's all very interesting enough, but it's the kind of thing you'd read on tbar.
Anything in this tweet?
Kristan Heneage @KHeneage
I also understand Bradley has been sounded out by #AVFC should they wish to replace Sherwood. He has two games left with Stabæk .
5:31 PM - 20 Oct 2015
Oh, what absolute bollocks.
Funny enough but this site went down for a back up the other night and curiosity got the better of me and I had a quick peep over at TBAR, it was very quiet with 5 users online. I guess nobody is working tirelessly anymore for them.Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
JP, I thought you were going to tell us after you had placed your bet on Monday...has something changed ?
I would be very happy if it was Bielsa - am I going to be very happy ? ;)
It's all very interesting enough, but it's the kind of thing you'd read on tbar.
I know hes not english or scottish.Please say he's not American either.
I know hes not english or scottish.Please say he's not American either.
I know hes not english or scottish.Please say he's not American either.
I dont know .
I hope not .
Ive been told to relax.
I know hes not english or scottish.Please say he's not American either.
I dont know .
I hope not .
Ive been told to relax.
Why don't you just tell us what you've been told, or stop the pointless teasers thing?
You're just setting yourself up for a huge amount of flack if it turns out someone was winding you up.
Or just PM what you've been told.
I know hes not english or scottish.Please say he's not American either.
I dont know .
I hope not .
Ive been told to relax.
Why don't you just tell us what you've been told, or stop the pointless teasers thing?
You're just setting yourself up for a huge amount of flack if it turns out someone was winding you up.
Ive told you what i know
I said i dont know who it is .
Not yet .
They aint that stupid.
I know hes not english or scottish.Please say he's not American either.
I dont know .
I hope not .
Ive been told to relax.
Why don't you just tell us what you've been told, or stop the pointless teasers thing?
You're just setting yourself up for a huge amount of flack if it turns out someone was winding you up.
Ive told you what i know
I said i dont know who it is .
Not yet .
They aint that stupid.
You don't know who it is, but you're on here giving out pointless teasers all the same. Either way, it's really dull and a bit childish.
I know hes not english or scottish.Please say he's not American either.
I dont know .
I hope not .
Ive been told to relax.
I know hes not english or scottish.Please say he's not American either.
I dont know .
I hope not .
Ive been told to relax.
Relax?
After the shit show of the last 5 yrs??
Sherwood is finished at villa.
It wont be monk.
JP, I thought you were going to tell us after you had placed your bet on Monday...has something changed ?
I would be very happy if it was Bielsa - am I going to be very happy ? ;)
It's all very interesting enough, but it's the kind of thing you'd read on tbar.
Let me believe Bielsa will be our manager. God knows Villa has given me very little pleasure the past few years. Even the deluded hope they would make such a great appointment is something for me to hang on to.
Can someone explain the attraction of Biesla please. He has no track record, is a maverick and is 60 years old.
Why can't you just go on the responses that you got when you asked the same question, nearly word-for-word yesterday evening?IMO Rodgers would be a more progressive appointment if we can't snare Beisla or de Boer.
Why this thing with Biesla. He had no consistent track record, is 60 years old and not won a bean. Limited managerial experience in Europe as well
Can you find the responses as well please
And get a fucking life
Can you find the responses as well please
And get a fucking life
Can you find the responses as well please
And get a fucking life
I'll be charitable and say that you might want to reconsider your tone.
Water under the bridge.Can you find the responses as well please
And get a fucking life
I'll be charitable and say that you might want to reconsider your tone.
Sorry Dave.
Water under the bridge.Can you find the responses as well please
And get a fucking life
I'll be charitable and say that you might want to reconsider your tone.
Sorry Dave.
Fuck aresnal have scored
If that snippet about the potential new man having a better win ratio than either rodgers or moyes is true, then worryingly it doesn't rule out bradley.
If it's Bob Bradley then, really, we've managed to trump the McLeish appointment, something I never dreamed for a moment would be possible.
If it's Bob Bradley then, well, Moyes must have not been available, because he's a much lower-rent version.
If it's Bob Bradley then, really, we've managed to trump the McLeish appointment, something I never dreamed for a moment would be possible.
That Bielsa fella isn't even on the betting sheet with oddschecker,
When you have big fat ron at 60/1 but at least on the page, it doesn't seem likely that we will be going for Bielsa any time in the near future
By the way the top 5 favourites for what it's worth are -
Moyes 6/2
Pearson 5/2
Bradley 6/1
Rogers 6/1
Dyche 16/1
That Bielsa fella isn't even on the betting sheet with oddschecker,
When you have big fat ron at 60/1 but at least on the page, it doesn't seem likely that we will be going for Bielsa any time in the near future
By the way the top 5 favourites for what it's worth are -
Moyes 6/2
Pearson 5/2
Bradley 6/1
Rogers 6/1
Dyche 16/1
*sighs*
What is wrong with Bradley? He did pretty well with the US Team and Chicago Fire.
If it's Bob Bradley then, really, we've managed to trump the McLeish appointment, something I never dreamed for a moment would be possible.
Yes, you almost have to admire him for dedication to the cause; I'm not entirely sure how he manages to mine an even bigger supply of shit managers, but somehow he keeps doing it. Each one worse than the last.
What is wrong with Bradley? He did pretty well with the US Team and Chicago Fire.
Are Chicago Fire a band or a pizza restaurant chain?
Funeral Directors :)What is wrong with Bradley? He did pretty well with the US Team and Chicago Fire.
Are Chicago Fire a band or a pizza restaurant chain?
This Bob Bradley rumour is just that isn't it?
And I would have to say Chicago Fire are definitely a band.
What is wrong with Bradley? He did pretty well with the US Team and Chicago Fire.
Are Chicago Fire a band or a pizza restaurant chain?
If you leave me now you'll take away the biggest part of me
And isn't Bradley meant to be off to some French club?
What is wrong with Bradley? He did pretty well with the US Team and Chicago Fire.
Are Chicago Fire a band or a pizza restaurant chain?
If you leave me now you'll take away the biggest part of me
Thanks John, got that stuck in my head now as I'm about to go to bed. I don't know anything about Bradley but because of this I really don't like him.
Oh oh oh please dont goWhat is wrong with Bradley? He did pretty well with the US Team and Chicago Fire.
Are Chicago Fire a band or a pizza restaurant chain?
If you leave me now you'll take away the biggest part of me
Thanks John, got that stuck in my head now as I'm about to go to bed. I don't know anything about Bradley but because of this I really don't like him.
If it's Bob Bradley then, really, we've managed to trump the McLeish appointment, something I never dreamed for a moment would be possible.
Although considering he was linked pretty much from the day we learned that Randy was taking over, it does feel inevitable that it will happen some day.
A bit like Robbie Keane was obviously going to play for us at some point.
If it's Bob Bradley then, really, we've managed to trump the McLeish appointment, something I never dreamed for a moment would be possible.
Although considering he was linked pretty much from the day we learned that Randy was taking over, it does feel inevitable that it will happen some day.
A bit like Robbie Keane was obviously going to play for us at some point.
Really? Interesting if true
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snmi6a
Surely it is the programe editors job to inform columnists that they aren't going to be used anymore. Even if it's not their choice?
Wouldn't expect Tom Fox or Sherwood to tell a 12 year old kid he's being released.
I think Stanley is placing a bit too much importance on the role of Programme Columnist.
On Peter W's point about similar leagues.
Absolutely no under any circumstances, look in Scandinavia unless you can poach Lars Lagerback from Malmö. The standard is just too poor.
The other 2 stars have been OGS (didn't he do well and Ståle Solbakken (who did even worse.)
Alternatively Kasper Hjulmand who was Okore's trainer at FCN when they won the Danish league and played in CL lasted 8 months at Mainz.
Klinsmann 16-1
There is absolutely no evidence that Bob Bradley would ever be our manager. There never has been, yet he always gets mentioned.
There is absolutely no evidence that Bob Bradley would ever be our manager. There never has been, yet he always gets mentioned.
Kinsmann was 10/1 last time.He's a non starter regardless of the bookies odds.
Non starter
Klinsmann 16-1
He'd fit in here perfectly. He chops and changes the team from game to game, has no clear idea how he wants his team to play, plays players out of position and then hangs them out to dry in public.
Nothing whatsoever to do with anything about Sherwood
But Bill Kenwright is apparently close to the end health wise tonight, according to a few Evertonians I know on FB
Brendan Rodgers
Brendan Rodgers
Brendan Rodgers
Brendan RodgersPost number 1, oh i get it, its a game, you say Brendan Rodgers and I Say
Brendan Rodgers
Go on
Brendan Rodgers
ALBERT TATLOCK...
Brendan Rodgers
ALBERT TATLOCK...
Too soon.Nothing whatsoever to do with anything about Sherwood
But Bill Kenwright is apparently close to the end health wise tonight, according to a few Evertonians I know on FB
*dashes over to Celebrity Deathwatch thread*
4 places above Blues
I can see both sides of that Collymore thing, though.i don't think it really works like that- a manager about to be sacked usually gets a vote
I can see how it is difficult for him to be critical of the club in public and supportive in the programme.
That's not the same thing as punishing him for saying what he thinks, but I can understand how they might think it makes his position untenable.
I do think, though, that with the increasing noise in the press, we're lurching into Newcastle-style chaos.
I think Sherwood is an out-of-his-depth shyster as previously argued on here, but I do think that if the board are going to support him, they should be making noises to that effect.
If they are not going to support him, they should replace him as soon as is humanly possible, because otherwise his position becomes totally untenable.
Too soon.Nothing whatsoever to do with anything about Sherwood
But Bill Kenwright is apparently close to the end health wise tonight, according to a few Evertonians I know on FB
*dashes over to Celebrity Deathwatch thread*
Don't know if anyone else has done so but taking out last season's FA Cup run then, from his appointment of 14/2/2015, Dim Tim's record for LEAGUE games alone is :-
Played 22, won 6, drawn 2, lost 14.
Giving a very poor Win Ratio of 27.3%.
So to me the case for the sack is clear. He should have already gone, he needs to be replaced with immediate effect.
It's a run that should cost a manager his job.
It's a run that should cost a manager his job.
Definitely, especially as we appear to be getting worse.
To compare TS with the previous 2 :-
TSM 1 in his only season had a Win Ratio of 18.4%. (Drew a lot of games).
TSM 2 had identical Win Ratios of 26.3% in his 2 full seasons. In his 3rd & last over 25 games it had slumped to 20.0%.
This season over 9 games TS's win ratio is a dismal 11.11%.
So if Fox, etc, are doing any "number crunching" and Stat analysis the answer is obvious. Pull the bloody trigger now !!
Unless of course they have reset to "false narrative" mode.
I think we need a larger data set of Sherwood results to get a true ratio...
What's also important actually are the performnces and results scores since Sherwood took over in regards to the league.
Just lrecalling last season - the loss at home to stoke in the last minute in his first match, losing to Carver Newcastle winning against the wba in last min penalty, benteke hat trick to draw with qpr , the wins against a disinterested West Ham and Everton in may with both teams having nothng to play for as villa were make or break.
Then there's a shambles of a 6-1 defeat and embarrassingly put away by Southampton and fastest ever hat trick as well as the sorry loss at home yet again bowing out with a season end whimper... Before that final..
Granted the best performance was a 4-0 away win against Sunderland. A lot of space afforded to villa that day and of course benteke again was a hero. Following week a loss to Swansea at home.
Maybe have to question why these players are perhaps making individual errors which have happened every game since he took over. Does this man inspire confidence or anxiety amoungst the professionals he apparently manages. I'm not convinced he's inspiring as a manager and that things he's tried to implement have led to more errors as players have tried to impress the manager Seemingly he wants them to play for him yet hasn't earned respct due to lack of the mangerial experience. Sherwood is learning by doing he's basic football philosophy worked short term - enough to keep club up and give a cup run with the shackles off. However over summer and putting team together does take time but its evidently clear he's not some one who has any experience in doing anything other than trying to win a football match. If that's all he had to do then okay but he's the manager so he's got a whole heap of responsibilities Which of course he's been helped with as he wouldn't know what to do so the basics of winning football matches is his focus not sounding off
All quiet on the chop front.
"We've noticed the comments in the press from Mr Sherwood about his relationship to his players and from our manager's friends in relation to the job he's doing. Unfortunately we can't find a response that would reflect well on the club."All quiet on the chop front.
I'm amazed we haven't had anything from the club - either a 'false narrative' thing or a defence of the manager.
"We've noticed the comments in the press from Mr Sherwood about his relationship to his players and from our manager's friends in relation to the job he's doing. Unfortunately we can't find a response that would reflect well on the club."All quiet on the chop front.
I'm amazed we haven't had anything from the club - either a 'false narrative' thing or a defence of the manager.
I think footyskillz is right about the errors. Opinion seemed divided 50/50 over whether Guzan or Lescott were the most culpable for the opening goal on Saturday but it's the manager's philosophy that's responsible for Guzan trying to play a pass with the foot he usually only uses for standing on.
Great post footyskillz....
Sherwood out...footyskillz in!
On Sunday, I honestly thought Sherwood would've been gone by now
What happened to the nailed on ITK that Sherwood's time is up?There was a misunderstanding. Sherwood's actually gone for a manicure. The new nail varnish is dry now = his time is up.
it wasn't nailed on
hes out next week . I can assure you
Just to get this straight JP (because your OMG 100% ITK reputation hangs on this) - when you say 'next week' do you mean 'after we probably lose to Swansea' or do you mean 'now'?hes phonimg me tomorrow. Ill private message you mate ;)
and yes before Swansea
you don't actually believe this do you? Well,l not long now to find out how nailed on nailed on is
hang on I'm confused. The guy claiming ITK - are you agreeing with him or not? I may be wrong, but Saturday is still this week isn't it, so you either think it will happen this week or you don't
hang on I'm confused. The guy claiming ITK - are you agreeing with him or not? I may be wrong, but Saturday is still this week isn't it, so you either think it will happen this week or you don't
That's one of the most annoying things. Atleast with Deadly you could read him, you knew what he would stand for and what we wouldn't. This lot, well i've no idea whether they've actually learned from the whole Lambert saga or not. What is their thinking a decision making process?The ideal time to get rid of him was when L'pool got rid of Rodgers, at the start of the international break - but then again they had Klopp lined up to replace him. We had nobody, and quite likely don't have anyone now either. Therefore it wasn't really on the cards that we'd get rid of Timmy last week, esp seeing as no-one gave us a prayer of beating Chelsea, and it was only 2-0 anyway. However, if we lose at home to Swansea, the mood will be so vitriolic that they won't have much choice other than to fuck him off. Hopefully.
On Sunday, I honestly thought Sherwood would've been gone by now
JP's a solid poster though. I don't for a moment think he was attention-seeking or anything. If he's wrong, I think he was wrong honestly. There's no 'Mod will make an announcement soon' nonsense about this.
JP's a solid poster though. I don't for a moment think he was attention-seeking or anything. If he's wrong, I think he was wrong honestly. There's no 'Mod will make an announcement soon' nonsense about this.
We continue to work tirelessly for you though.
JP's a solid poster though. I don't for a moment think he was attention-seeking or anything. If he's wrong, I think he was wrong honestly. There's no 'Mod will make an announcement soon' nonsense about this.
Why doesn't JP explain the situation for himself though, like Cheltenham has ? We can all guess as to his motives (probably innocent enough), but only he knows the truth.
I'm off for a garibaldi.
Why doesn't JP explain the situation for himself though, like Cheltenham has ? We can all guess as to his motives (probably innocent enough), but only he knows the truth.
I'm off for a garibaldi.
I think that's a clue.
Garibaldi. Red shirt. Always die in Star Trek. Sherwood's gone?
Why doesn't JP explain the situation for himself though, like Cheltenham has ? We can all guess as to his motives (probably innocent enough), but only he knows the truth.
I'm off for a garibaldi.
I think that's a clue.
Garibaldi. Red shirt. Always die in Star Trek. Sherwood's gone?
There's a difference between saying "something might happen but I'm not sure" and what Juan Pablo has done, basically saying "Sherwood will be gone" but doing so in a self-aggrandising "I know something you don't know, wink, wink" kind of way.
He's normally a decent enough poster but it's not surprising that some people will feel a bit disappointed that he was wrong given the desperate need among Villa fans to cling on to any vaguely positive rumours at the moment.
He's behaved in a very TBAR kind of way.
There's a difference between saying "something might happen but I'm not sure" and what Juan Pablo has done, basically saying "Sherwood will be gone" but doing so in a self-aggrandising "I know something you don't know, wink, wink" kind of way.
He's normally a decent enough poster but it's not surprising that some people will feel a bit disappointed that he was wrong given the desperate need among Villa fans to cling on to any vaguely positive rumours at the moment.
He's behaved in a very TBAR kind of way.
And TBAR have picked up on that point. Not that we care.
it wasn't nailed on
oh really?hes out next week . I can assure you
promoting Monty to say this and getting this responseJust to get this straight JP (because your OMG 100% ITK reputation hangs on this) - when you say 'next week' do you mean 'after we probably lose to Swansea' or do you mean 'now'?hes phonimg me tomorrow. Ill private message you mate ;)
and then this one immediately afterand yes before Swansea
Seems pretty nailed on to me
Uh oh, if we are not careful some tool will come along and start a punathon.
Why doesn't JP explain the situation for himself though, like Cheltenham has ? We can all guess as to his motives (probably innocent enough), but only he knows the truth.
I'm off for a garibaldi.
I think that's a clue.
Garibaldi. Red shirt. Always die in Star Trek. Sherwood's gone?
3 2 1 you've won Dusty Bin!
our once great club
He is the current manager of our once great club and we will only be stronger if we are all in this together
This is one of the comments below an article on the villa and Sherwood in tomorrow's guardian.
It's a bit long, but please take time to read it, because it's heartfelt and bloody good.
"I've been a fan since my first match in 1974 when I was six years old. In the time since then I've seen some great sides, some great times, and some really really poor sides and leaner times. I've had years as a season ticket holder, a few years going home and away, and seen us get relegated in 86-87.
That relegation year was a horrible low point for us, but what worries me now is that the feeling I get this season is pretty much exactly the same as it was back then.
Football fans can handle their team being shit for spells - that is part of the deal. It is even part of the fun at times. That's not the problem, though. It isn't just that we're shit, it is that we are drifting along like an unloved, badly managed mess, like a spangly Wigan Athletic.
The Lerner years have proved to be disastrous. Yes, three sixth place finishes in a row weren't bad, but at what cost? Look at the gigantic amounts of money Lerner threw at MON. He game him a blank chequebook and we spent the next few years struggling to get over the financial mess he left us in.
There wasn't any oversight from a grown up at the top of the club. We then spent a period desperately trying to stop bleeding money. We started signing utter, utter dross (Luna, Bennett, Tonev et al) as we tried convincing ourselves that "young and hungry" players was the way forward - our leaders seemed to think that all you had to do was buy enough young players, throw them in the deep end in the premier league, and they'd just mature into capable players. Truly idiotic.
And that's not even the worst bit. I wonder how many people on the planet thought that appointing Alex McLeish was ever going to work - a bloke who had just finished relegating our near neighbours whilst playing awful football? What an awful, awful piece of "leadership".
I binned my season ticket a few years ago. If you want to put that in financial context, that year my season ticket cost me the best part of 600 quid. We won 5 home league games, so that is £120 a win.
That's bad enough, but that isn't the real killer. What really sticks in my craw is the meek, pathetic acceptance of mediocrity by the club. If you want to see this mediocrity in action, just look at club "hero", the undroppable Gabriel Agbonlahor moping around the pitch contributing absolutely nothing for months on end whilst on a seemingly never-ending conveyor belt of new improved contracts.
Look how long Lambert lasted. I can think of at least half a dozen spells of results under Lambert which were so poor, they'd have got any other manager in the league the sack, but he somehow managed two and a half seasons. Why? Because that sort of pathetic performance was considered acceptable.
I can honestly say that over that time, we became the sort of club that, were I not a Villa fan, I would want to go down.
I did not think this was possible, but Sherwood's performance so far has actually been worse than Lambert. If we have any scrap of pride left, we'll get shot of him
Muddled tactics, 4 points from 9 games, poor decisions (pathetically throwing away 3 points in the last 25 mins at Leicester by making brainless substitutions), idiotic nonsense in the media (spending 45 mins lumping useless long balls at Birmingham City was 'all part of my plan'), line ups chosen by throwing a dart at a piece of paper, throwing absolutely everyone else under the bus to save himself (these 'I didn't choose the players' stories - I wonder what effect that has on squad morale?), the dreadful gobshitery in the media, all of this stuff, it is truly awful "leadership".
His mates in the media have jumped to his support - Jenas, Shearer, the other predictable names - with the "he's doing a good job" routine, in the true manner of people who haven't paid to watch a football match for years. Good job? Losing 7 games of 9?
Yes, he kept us up last season (a glorious 17th place finish) but the signs were already there. He lost over half his games last season. We put in a Cup final performance even worse than the one we managed in 2000, something I thought was impossible. We got thumped 6-1 by Southampton, and lost at home to relegated Burnley on the last day of the season. This was all in the period of his "amazing job" last season.
It is absolutely nothing like good enough, not even for those of us who have spent the last five years watching eyeball-meltingly shit football.
The club seem to have pretty much zero pride these days, but they have absolutely got to grow some balls and try to convince a few of us that this sort of rubbish is not acceptable, admit they've made a mistake, replace him and move on.
Keep this chancer in place much longer and we are absolutely doomed to what I suspect won't be a short stay in the Championship."
Who Paulie has he thrown under a bus please and how ? There's some I would love to throw under, I think he's been too loyal
if anything to some but as always I'm happy to be proven wrong if you can give me examples ?
Like I said, It is all about opinions and I'll hold my hands up if someone can show me he's being disloyal or not even trying to succeed,
ultimately we the fans want what's best for our club we just have so many different ways we think it should be achieved.
Great article but I wonder what the reaction to Sherwood will be on Saturday if we beat Swansea? Will people want to give him more time at that point? FWIW, can't see us winning, Swansea are on a shit run so who better to play than us?
Great article but I wonder what the reaction to Sherwood will be on Saturday if we beat Swansea? Will people want to give him more time at that point? FWIW, can't see us winning, Swansea are on a shit run so who better to play than us?
More than anything, I just want us to win.
We can then go on and talk about what we do next, but fucking hell, we've got to win.
Great article but I wonder what the reaction to Sherwood will be on Saturday if we beat Swansea? Will people want to give him more time at that point? FWIW, can't see us winning, Swansea are on a shit run so who better to play than us?
More than anything, I just want us to win.
We can then go on and talk about what we do next, but fucking hell, we've got to win.
What are these 'wins' people keep mentioning?It must be this http://www.winconference.net/WINConference (http://www.winconference.net/WINConference)
What are these 'wins' people keep mentioning?
Great comments from him this morning
''3 at the back worked well in phases against Stoke ''
''Joleon is in great form ''
"Tim Sherwood won't get relegated. I believe in myself and this team. If we're bottom at Christmas I won't panic."
Great comments from him this morning
''3 at the back worked well in phases against Stoke ''
''Joleon is in great form ''
"Tim Sherwood won't get relegated. I believe in myself and this team. If we're bottom at Christmas I won't panic."
Great comments from him this morning
''3 at the back worked well in phases against Stoke ''
''Joleon is in great form ''
"Tim Sherwood won't get relegated. I believe in myself and this team. If we're bottom at Christmas I won't panic."
Great comments from him this morning
''3 at the back worked well in phases against Stoke ''
''Joleon is in great form ''
"Tim Sherwood won't get relegated. I believe in myself and this team. If we're bottom at Christmas I won't panic."
It looks like these quotes were made up by someone on twitter.
That said it's worrying how believable they are.
Great comments from him this morning
''3 at the back worked well in phases against Stoke ''
''Joleon is in great form ''
"Tim Sherwood won't get relegated. I believe in myself and this team. If we're bottom at Christmas I won't panic."
Oh Jesus Christ!
10 pts less than this stage last season and we scraped staying up - those comments above are the words of a madman.
Great comments from him this morning
''3 at the back worked well in phases against Stoke ''
''Joleon is in great form ''
"Tim Sherwood won't get relegated. I believe in myself and this team. If we're bottom at Christmas I won't panic."
Oh Jesus Christ!
10 pts less than this stage last season and we scraped staying up - those comments above are the words of a madman.
6 points.
We took ten from the first 4, then lost 6 on the bounce, before a few draws with Southampton, West Ham and Burnley. We won our fourth game against Palace and fifth of the season against Leicester at the start of December. No more wins then until we beat the Stripey Filth at the very end of February.
Morning
Im suprised he aint gone yet , this club sometimes , oh well.
But i expect him gone soon.
If not , what worries me is this club definitely dont know what they are doing but i will wait until maybe middle of next week before I slag them off for being useless.
I was told hes out but just sorting out the new man but if we spank swansea say 4 0 , I just aint got a clue what they do.
But im sure the club still want him gone .
Morning
Im suprised he aint gone yet , this club sometimes , oh well.
But i expect him gone soon.
If not , what worries me is this club definitely dont know what they are doing but i will wait until maybe middle of next week before I slag them off for being useless.
I was told hes out but just sorting out the new man but if we spank swansea say 4 0 , I just aint got a clue what they do.
But im sure the club still want him gone .
I expect the dithering is down to Lerner/Fox knowing full well that if they sacked Sherwood finding a replacement would be a mammoth task considering the transfer/wage budget they'd offering the new man. While we are run on a relative shoestring we'll always have the same problem.
Great comments from him this morning
''3 at the back worked well in phases against Stoke ''
''Joleon is in great form ''
"Tim Sherwood won't get relegated. I believe in myself and this team. If we're bottom at Christmas I won't panic."
It looks like these quotes were made up by someone on twitter.
That said it's worrying how believable they are.
Yeah looks like they were made up , yet easily believable
Morning
Im suprised he aint gone yet , this club sometimes , oh well.
But i expect him gone soon.
If not , what worries me is this club definitely dont know what they are doing but i will wait until maybe middle of next week before I slag them off for being useless.
I was told hes out but just sorting out the new man but if we spank swansea say 4 0 , I just aint got a clue what they do.
But im sure the club still want him gone .
I expect the dithering is down to Lerner/Fox knowing full well that if they sacked Sherwood finding a replacement would be a mammoth task considering the transfer/wage budget they'd offering the new man. While we are run on a relative shoestring we'll always have the same problem.
Not sure about this
Sherwood currently 8th highest paid manager in premiership on £2mil per year
Last 5 years transfer gross spend @ £123 mil with net @ £6.8 mil (12th highest in league)
is not to be sniffed at and hardly paints Lerner to be of "running the club into the ground" proportions
Remember this is a guy who has the club up for sale - he could easily of pocketed the Benteke money and even more so as 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' are using payment terms Grattons catalogue would be proud of but instead allowed Sherwood / Committee / whoever to spend a further £50 mil of his money
Morning
Im suprised he aint gone yet , this club sometimes , oh well.
But i expect him gone soon.
If not , what worries me is this club definitely dont know what they are doing but i will wait until maybe middle of next week before I slag them off for being useless.
I was told hes out but just sorting out the new man but if we spank swansea say 4 0 , I just aint got a clue what they do.
But im sure the club still want him gone .
I expect the dithering is down to Lerner/Fox knowing full well that if they sacked Sherwood finding a replacement would be a mammoth task considering the transfer/wage budget they'd offering the new man. While we are run on a relative shoestring we'll always have the same problem.
Not sure about this
Sherwood currently 8th highest paid manager in premiership on £2mil per year
Last 5 years transfer gross spend @ £123 mil with net @ £6.8 mil (12th highest in league)
is not to be sniffed at and hardly paints Lerner to be of "running the club into the ground" proportions
Remember this is a guy who has the club up for sale - he could easily of pocketed the Benteke money and even more so as 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' are using payment terms Grattons catalogue would be proud of but instead allowed Sherwood / Committee / whoever to spend a further £50 mil of his money
Oh please! Top managers won't go to a club that has a restricted wage structure/transfer policy no matter how much money you offer that man in wages. That's why we've spent the last 5-6 years employing rookie and has-beens. That's down to the chairman no matter how much you stick up for him.
The chairman has spent the last 6 seasons or so trying to get rid of the high earner off the wage sheet and even go as far as banishing them to the reserves just because of what they earn, so please don't try and tell me it's nothing to do with wages.
The chairman has spent the last 6 seasons or so trying to get rid of the high earner off the wage sheet and even go as far as banishing them to the reserves just because of what they earn, so please don't try and tell me it's nothing to do with wages.
Once again, and I'll make it really clear because you've struggled with this for a long time:
It's not that we have made huge cutbacks and are not spending money, the accounts don't lie, they show that we're operating as a midtable premier league club. What is wrong is how that money has been used and because it's all tied up in contracts you have 2 options, you either muddle by whilst those contracts run down or you spend regardless. The former causes the issues we've seen where running the business is difficult, the latter means you either go bust or you have to have huge amounts of cash injected. What you've argued for years is that Randy should do the latter, which is a very easy stance to take when it's not your money.
That's me.
We didn't win anything under O'Neil either.
Great comments from him this morning
''3 at the back worked well in phases against Stoke ''
''Joleon is in great form ''
"Tim Sherwood won't get relegated. I believe in myself and this team. If we're bottom at Christmas I won't panic."
We didn't win anything under O'Neil either.
Neither were we an embarrassment. We are now.
We didn't win anything under O'Neil either.
Neither were we an embarrassment. We are now.
But for all the money we spent, what did we actually do?
We didn't win anything under O'Neil either.
Neither were we an embarrassment. We are now.
But for all the money we spent, what did we actually do?
Finished top 6 three years in succession. Would you like a bit of that right now or would you rather another 5 seasons of utter shite like we've just had?
At least we could hold our heads up high back then. The club has been nothing but an embarrassment to fans for 5 long years.
We didn't win anything under O'Neil either.
Neither were we an embarrassment. We are now.
But for all the money we spent, what did we actually do?
Finished top 6 three years in succession. Would you like a bit of that right now or would you rather another 5 seasons of utter shite like we've just had?
At least we could hold our heads up high back then. The club has been nothing but an embarrassment to fans for 5 long years.
We didn't win anything under O'Neil either.
Neither were we an embarrassment. We are now.
But for all the money we spent, what did we actually do?
Finished top 6 three years in succession. Would you like a bit of that right now or would you rather another 5 seasons of utter shite like we've just had?
At least we could hold our heads up high back then. The club has been nothing but an embarrassment to fans for 5 long years.
Given the resources he had 3 top 6 finishes shows just how much he squandered at Villa. That should have set us up, instead its set us back. 3 top 6s should easily have been 6th - 3rd - 4th. We monumentally messed it up. Or, rather O'Neill did and we've been left struggling ever since due to one factor or another.
We didn't win anything under O'Neil either.
Neither were we an embarrassment. We are now.
But for all the money we spent, what did we actually do?
Finished top 6 three years in succession. Would you like a bit of that right now or would you rather another 5 seasons of utter shite like we've just had?
At least we could hold our heads up high back then. The club has been nothing but an embarrassment to fans for 5 long years.
Given the resources he had 3 top 6 finishes shows just how much he squandered at Villa. That should have set us up, instead its set us back. 3 top 6s should easily have been 6th - 3rd - 4th. We monumentally messed it up. Or, rather O'Neill did and we've been left struggling ever since due to one factor or another.
We didn't win anything under O'Neil either.
Neither were we an embarrassment. We are now.
But for all the money we spent, what did we actually do?
Finished top 6 three years in succession. Would you like a bit of that right now or would you rather another 5 seasons of utter shite like we've just had?
At least we could hold our heads up high back then. The club has been nothing but an embarrassment to fans for 5 long years.
Given the resources he had 3 top 6 finishes shows just how much he squandered at Villa. That should have set us up, instead its set us back. 3 top 6s should easily have been 6th - 3rd - 4th. We monumentally messed it up. Or, rather O'Neill did and we've been left struggling ever since due to one factor or another.
Also, if you believe what you read (and you always shouldn't) didn't he want Aidan McGeady for over £10m?
We didn't win anything under O'Neil either.
Neither were we an embarrassment. We are now.
But for all the money we spent, what did we actually do?
Finished top 6 three years in succession. Would you like a bit of that right now or would you rather another 5 seasons of utter shite like we've just had?
At least we could hold our heads up high back then. The club has been nothing but an embarrassment to fans for 5 long years.
Given the resources he had 3 top 6 finishes shows just how much he squandered at Villa. That should have set us up, instead its set us back. 3 top 6s should easily have been 6th - 3rd - 4th. We monumentally messed it up. Or, rather O'Neill did and we've been left struggling ever since due to one factor or another.
It was a hell of a party though, while it lasted.
Lerner more or less gave up on Villa over 5 years ago yet still fans defend him.
After selling Milner for a fortune.
After selling Milner for a fortune.
Lerner more or less gave up on Villa over 5 years ago yet still fans defend him.
It's nothing to do with defending anyone, it's to do with understanding that you can't expect someone to take a hit of £50m every season.
After selling Milner for a fortune.
and your point is that money made from sales isn't allowed to be counted?
Lerner more or less gave up on Villa over 5 years ago yet still fans defend him.
It's nothing to do with defending anyone, it's to do with understanding that you can't expect someone to take a hit of £50m every season.
Nor should he be expected to run Aston Villa like a lower league club either.
Lerner more or less gave up on Villa over 5 years ago yet still fans defend him.
It's nothing to do with defending anyone, it's to do with understanding that you can't expect someone to take a hit of £50m every season.
Nor should he be expected to run Aston Villa like a lower league club either.
and he isn't, the finances irrefutably prove that so what is your point?
Lerner more or less gave up on Villa over 5 years ago yet still fans defend him.
It's nothing to do with defending anyone, it's to do with understanding that you can't expect someone to take a hit of £50m every season.
Nor should he be expected to run Aston Villa like a lower league club either.
and he isn't, the finances irrefutably prove that so what is your point?
My point is that we're owned by a billionaire. A seriously cash rich man who bought a play thing and got bored very quickly indeed. Consequently our club is yet again in a relegation struggle.
I mean it's not like he hasn't got the money to get us out of this mess is it?
What Lerner needed to do was spend his money more wisely and protect his investment. Jumping up and down on the trap door with rocks in your pockets is hardly going to attract a buyer.
Lerner more or less gave up on Villa over 5 years ago yet still fans defend him.
It's nothing to do with defending anyone, it's to do with understanding that you can't expect someone to take a hit of £50m every season.
Nor should he be expected to run Aston Villa like a lower league club either.
and he isn't, the finances irrefutably prove that so what is your point?
My point is that we're owned by a billionaire. A seriously cash rich man who bought a play thing and got bored very quickly indeed. Consequently our club is yet again in a relegation struggle.
I mean it's not like he hasn't got the money to get us out of this mess is it?
Translation: Spend more of your money on my hobby
"Tim Sherwood won't get relegated. I believe in myself and this team. If we're bottom at Christmas I won't panic."No Tim there will be no need for you to panic as hopefully you will be chiselling away from Villa Park somewhere.
What Lerner needed to do was spend his money more wisely and protect his investment. Jumping up and down on the trap door with rocks in your pockets is hardly going to attract a buyer.
He should have done that from day 1. Then maybe the house would have been built on proper foundations instead of a yawning chasm with a trap door in the middle of it.
The money he's thrown into the Villa from the start, if utilised more sensibly would have kept us up at the business end of the table in a far more sustainable manor, negating the need for the horrors of the last 5 years.
If s_h curses the day Randy Lerner first heard of Aston Villa, I feel the same way about the day that Martin O'Neill typed B6 into his GPS.
I might be misinterpreting you, but are you saying he should have kept pouring money in whilst searching for a buyer?
In which case we'll have to disagree. A club that needs an injection of £50M p.a. just to stay around the top 6 with limited potential to improve is going to be less attractive to a club with it's finances in order and ready to start moving again.
As paul_e has pointed out, despite the utterly shit and desperate results over the last 4-5 years, the expenditure is still that of a mid table club. We've still not been the using the money available well enough. I hate having to use the word but, hopefully the new structures in place to ensure some form of continuity instead of rip it up and start again will lend some stability to the playing side. That coupled with an even half decent coach should see us move in the right direction.
When people refer to TSM 1 & 2, who are you referring to?
Whatever O'Neill's mistakes I'd take him over any of the clueless muppets Lerner has employed since.
And O'Neill made some great signings as well as duff ones. Oh and he gave us a team that actually could compete in the PL as well. Remember those days?
Lerner more or less gave up on Villa over 5 years ago yet still fans defend him.
It's nothing to do with defending anyone, it's to do with understanding that you can't expect someone to take a hit of £50m every season.
Nor should he be expected to run Aston Villa like a lower league club either.
Lerner more or less gave up on Villa over 5 years ago yet still fans defend him.
It's nothing to do with defending anyone, it's to do with understanding that you can't expect someone to take a hit of £50m every season.
Nor should he be expected to run Aston Villa like a lower league club either.
In terms of the finances he's running the club like a mid-table Premier League club.
Which isn't as fun as when he was running it like one trying to become a Champions League club, but nor does that mean that it should see the club spending the last few years between 16th and 19th.
Lerner more or less gave up on Villa over 5 years ago yet still fans defend him.
It's nothing to do with defending anyone, it's to do with understanding that you can't expect someone to take a hit of £50m every season.
Nor should he be expected to run Aston Villa like a lower league club either.
and he isn't, the finances irrefutably prove that so what is your point?
My point is that we're owned by a billionaire. A seriously cash rich man who bought a play thing and got bored very quickly indeed. Consequently our club is yet again in a relegation struggle.
I mean it's not like he hasn't got the money to get us out of this mess is it?
Translation: Spend more of your money on my hobby
Or "his hobby" more importantly.
After selling Milner for a fortune.
Lerner more or less gave up on Villa over 5 years ago yet still fans defend him.
As long as it isn't kiss cam as i'll be sat next to Leeg!
After selling Milner for a fortune.Lerner more or less gave up on Villa over 5 years ago yet still fans defend him.
Cheer up mate
You might get on that bongo cam at half time tomorrow
I hope it doesn't involve getting your todger out yet again.
What Lerner needed to do was spend his money more wisely and protect his investment. Jumping up and down on the trap door with rocks in your pockets is hardly going to attract a buyer.
He should have done that from day 1. Then maybe the house would have been built on proper foundations instead of a yawning chasm with a trap door in the middle of it.
The money he's thrown into the Villa from the start, if utilised more sensibly would have kept us up at the business end of the table in a far more sustainable manor, negating the need for the horrors of the last 5 years.
If s_h curses the day Randy Lerner first heard of Aston Villa, I feel the same way about the day that Martin O'Neill typed B6 into his GPS.
I might be misinterpreting you, but are you saying he should have kept pouring money in whilst searching for a buyer?
In which case we'll have to disagree. A club that needs an injection of £50M p.a. just to stay around the top 6 with limited potential to improve is going to be less attractive to a club with it's finances in order and ready to start moving again.
As paul_e has pointed out, despite the utterly shit and desperate results over the last 4-5 years, the expenditure is still that of a mid table club. We've still not been the using the money available well enough. I hate having to use the word but, hopefully the new structures in place to ensure some form of continuity instead of rip it up and start again will lend some stability to the playing side. That coupled with an even half decent coach should see us move in the right direction.
The amount he's spent doesn't matter so much as how he's spent it. Throwing money at Martin O'Neill, signing off ridiculous contracts for the likes of TSM1 and TSM2 (offering the latter a new contract after a handful of flukey results at the beginning of last season was utterly stupid). When I say protecting his investment, I mean managing it properly and spending according to its status. In other words, stop crossing your fingers and gambling with unproven staff, hoping they'll get you out of the mess you've created. It isn't working.
We should have done more under MON but in my lifetime we have never finished in the top 6 for 3 consecutive seasons except for 2007-10. That era now seems like a mirage.
An obvious point made before is that MON s signings were doubtless negotiated by inexperienced people so we spent loads more than we should have done. I don't blame him for that, I blame the rest of the management team.
On 5Live he has just been spouting the "not my signings" line followed by the fact we need to get experienced players in January.
Looks like that Darren Bent moment again?
On 5Live he has just been spouting the "not my signings" line followed by the fact we need to get experienced players in January.
Looks like that Darren Bent moment again?
Wait, Sherwood said that himself?
Oh good. Being discussed on soccer saturday now.
I'm going to be more relieved when he's finally fucked off than I was when lambert exited.Agreed and to really do him justice, you have to admit that it does take a special kind of skill to prove yourself to be even worse than Lambert's 2 1/2 years in a little over 6 months.
Oh good. Being discussed on soccer saturday now.
Ger, for us foreign types please let us know what is said. Ta
Conclusion from his "mates" is that it's not his fault and it's the players and he needs more time!So exactly the same that they'd been saying about Lambert, before he got the chop and performances and results improved drastically?
Conclusion from his "mates" is that it's not his fault and it's the players and he needs more time!
He's certainly getting his excuses in early while making the job of finding the right replacement ever-harder. Fuck off Tim, eh?
Yet he still was allowed to continue being managerHe's certainly getting his excuses in early while making the job of finding the right replacement ever-harder. Fuck off Tim, eh?
Indeed I'm bored of this. The not my signings schtick is a disgrace.
He's certainly getting his excuses in early while making the job of finding the right replacement ever-harder. Fuck off Tim, eh?
More worrying that the board have allowed him to do it.He's certainly getting his excuses in early while making the job of finding the right replacement ever-harder. Fuck off Tim, eh?
That's my main worry. He's dragging our name through the dirt. He has to go today, immediately after the game.
I can't locate what he actually said - can someone reproduce it, or give the gist?
I can't locate what he actually said - can someone reproduce it, or give the gist?
In the matchday thread matey.
He'll go tonight surely.You would think/hope so.
He'll go tonight surely.
Anyone want to reset the poll?You don't need to.
More worrying that the board have allowed him to do it.He's certainly getting his excuses in early while making the job of finding the right replacement ever-harder. Fuck off Tim, eh?
That's my main worry. He's dragging our name through the dirt. He has to go today, immediately after the game.
He should have been sacked after Stoke
Anyone want to reset the poll?Done.
A resounding yes.
Moyes or Bielsa. Either will do.
We need this thread when it happens. Not before. Off course I hope it's required in about 5 minutes.
His subs make us worse.
Go on, who voted "no"? Was it that Nose who just signed up?Personally I think the questions should be similar to the referendum question organised by the Russians in Crimea.
Few on Twitter saying he's gone, announcement within the hour. Hope so
Few on Twitter saying he's gone, announcement within the hour. Hope so
Few on Twitter saying he's gone, announcement within the hour. Hope so
He will be gone by Monday I'm sure.
The cup is a write off so we have 9 days until our next league game. Enough time to sack him and appoint someone else.
He's gone
He's gone
Really?
It just wouldn't be us to act so decisively.He's gone
Really?
Sorry no, it was a tosser of a mate telling me he had just had an alert on his phone - it was for the Charlton manager.
It is not Tim Sherwood's fault Aston Villa Football Club has been shedding its dignity over the last half a decade.
It is not Tim Sherwood's fault one of football's grandest institutions has shifted into a swamp of mediocrity.
It is not Tim Sherwood's fault Villa's transfer policy might as well have been made up over a few jars.
There has been a desperate inertia - lifted only sporadically - about this place for a long time. A long time before Sherwood arrived with his smile, swagger and soundbites.
But it is Sherwood's fault this team looks devoid of a cogent plan.
Our friend Gregg Evans says a decision will be made in 48 hours.
We'll be nice and give him a Sunday with his family but Monday morning he'll be told to clear his desk.
His phones switched off so Tom can't get a hold of him.
Our friend Gregg Evans says a decision will be made in 48 hours.
We'll be nice and give him a Sunday with his family but Monday morning he'll be told to clear his desk.
And next week we'll emerge with a list of managers with one name on it. Nigel Pearson.
Our friend Gregg Evans says a decision will be made in 48 hours.
We'll be nice and give him a Sunday with his family but Monday morning he'll be told to clear his desk.
And next week we'll emerge with a list of managers with one name on it. Nigel Pearson.
The club have to go cap in hand to Moyes surely now.
Tactics' Post Match:
I wouldn't mind the way he talks if he actually contributed towards learning from his own mistakes and accepting some of the responsibility. I used to hate Lambert's interviews.
Tactics' Post Match:
Beaten.
He'll never manage a team again. Absolute garbage
He'll never manage a team again. Absolute garbage
I agree. I said it earlier he reminds me of the clueless Paul Merson when he thought he could cut it as a manager.
I just want it to be over. I need a hug :(
Tactics' Post Match:
Beaten.
Broken. He knows it's all over
Even without the benefit of hindsight, having a shortlist of one person, and that person being someone who had managed - at any level - for four or five months was about as cretinous as it fucking gets.It was every bit as stupid a decision as the McLeish one.
He'll never manage a team again. Absolute garbage
I agree. I said it earlier he reminds me of the clueless Paul Merson when he thought he could cut it as a manager.
It's like he exists solely on bluster.
Talking a good game, having the front, talking about himself a lot, giving it large, having a laugh with the press boys, and then when it comes to match day, sitting on the bench pissing his pants and shaking like a shitting puppy because he's so far out of his depth.
I don't know why the hell we're giving it 48 hours to make our mind up whether we sack him or not. Just do it fuckin now and at least look like you give a damn!
Whose name will be drawn out the tombola next for the managers role?
Even without the benefit of hindsight, having a shortlist of one person, and that person being someone who had managed - at any level - for four or five months was about as cretinous as it fucking gets.It was every bit as stupid a decision as the McLeish one.
At least McLeish had the leeway to drop us half a dozen places down the table and we'd still survive. We didn't really have that luxury this time.
Whose name will be drawn out the tombola next for the managers role?
For once, Fox and Randy have to make the right call. Don't even think about Pearson. Fight tooth and nail for a top man. The infrastructure appears to be better so the choice needs to be right. I honestly believe that we have some great players.
Even without the benefit of hindsight, having a shortlist of one person, and that person being someone who had managed - at any level - for four or five months was about as cretinous as it fucking gets.It was every bit as stupid a decision as the McLeish one.
At least McLeish had the leeway to drop us half a dozen places down the table and we'd still survive. We didn't really have that luxury this time.
McLeish would never had enough about him to keep us up from where Lambert had left us. Post Hull we needed a personality so different to Lambert and Sherwood provided it. While the spark was very short lived, but was just enough to see us over the edge. Literally just enough.
Has there ever been a manager poll on H&V before that is so one-sided as this one?
Even without the benefit of hindsight, having a shortlist of one person, and that person being someone who had managed - at any level - for four or five months was about as cretinous as it fucking gets.It was every bit as stupid a decision as the McLeish one.
At least McLeish had the leeway to drop us half a dozen places down the table and we'd still survive. We didn't really have that luxury this time.
McLeish would never had enough about him to keep us up from where Lambert had left us. Post Hull we needed a personality so different to Lambert and Sherwood provided it. While the spark was very short lived, but was just enough to see us over the edge. Literally just enough.
That's not what I mean. When we finish ninth, it matters less if the following season is with a shit manager. He's got room to fuck up, as McLeish inevitably did.
If we finish 17th, going into the following season with a shit manager is more likely to be terminal - as it predictably looks like this season might be.
that ninth place finish was a bit deceptive though wasn't it? Bringing in McLeish was a horrific decision in every sense.As was the Sherwood one.
I made the cardinal error of putting on the car radio on the way home to listen to the rugby. Almost as some sort of self harm I stayed for 606 and was forced to listen to those pair of arseholes giving merciless stick to an honest, articulate Villa fan who described Sherwood as a charlatan. But Tim had Benteke and Delph and Vlaar and Cleverly sold from under him and how can get Aston Villa ever attract players that good. The Villa fan did not get the chance to say Sherwood knew Benteke and Delph were gone in the summer, that Cleverley was a loan and that Vlaar has Waterford Crystal legs and has been shit ever since the World Cup but Sherwood still signed a contract..
I don't know why the hell we're giving it 48 hours to make our mind up whether we sack him or not. Just do it fuckin now and at least look like you give a damn!
Its not that straightforward though is it. We need to have a replacement lined up fairly sharpish.
Im just not convinced there is anyone out there with sufficient quality who is either available or interested.
We are a basket case, or as Tim says, in a hole.
I want Moyes but why would he come. He might think if he rescues us he will be back to where he was with Everton, a success. That said as some point a position with a middling prem club will come up which may be more attractive and less of a risk to Moyes.
Just looked at the league table and our upcoming fixtures. F me that is depressing. We have had a fairly easy run of fixtures and managed to pick up 4 points. We play Liverpool, Stoke and Swansea all of whom were on bad runs, until they played us.
I want to remain positive but its very, very difficult to do so
I don't know why the hell we're giving it 48 hours to make our mind up whether we sack him or not. Just do it fuckin now and at least look like you give a damn!
Its not that straightforward though is it. We need to have a replacement lined up fairly sharpish.
Im just not convinced there is anyone out there with sufficient quality who is either available or interested.
We are a basket case, or as Tim says, in a hole.
I want Moyes but why would he come. He might think if he rescues us he will be back to where he was with Everton, a success. That said as some point a position with a middling prem club will come up which may be more attractive and less of a risk to Moyes.
Just looked at the league table and our upcoming fixtures. F me that is depressing. We have had a fairly easy run of fixtures and managed to pick up 4 points. We play Liverpool, Stoke and Swansea all of whom were on bad runs, until they played us.
I want to remain positive but its very, very difficult to do so
I don't know when Moyes team play in Spain, but I sincerely hope he is our next manager. The rumours suggest he is keen, think he gets on well with Lerner from comments after O'Neill left and he will get the team organised. First half today I was trying to work out who is playing where. There are some decent players in that squad and we should be doing far better than we are. Sherwood is a fraud, I got stick after the Blues game but have been proved right and take no pleasure in saying that. The team chosen today smacked of a guy who didn't give a toss, to be fair I thought the two in the middle Bacuna and Gana were excellent. How the feck he kept Richardson on when he was clearly struggling against a shite player with pace near the end is a joke, but maybe he was just intent on proving his point on who he wanted at the club. Total twat
I don't know why the hell we're giving it 48 hours to make our mind up whether we sack him or not. Just do it fuckin now and at least look like you give a damn!
Its not that straightforward though is it. We need to have a replacement lined up fairly sharpish.
Im just not convinced there is anyone out there with sufficient quality who is either available or interested.
We are a basket case, or as Tim says, in a hole.
I want Moyes but why would he come. He might think if he rescues us he will be back to where he was with Everton, a success. That said as some point a position with a middling prem club will come up which may be more attractive and less of a risk to Moyes.
Just looked at the league table and our upcoming fixtures. F me that is depressing. We have had a fairly easy run of fixtures and managed to pick up 4 points. We play Liverpool, Stoke and Swansea all of whom were on bad runs, until they played us.
I want to remain positive but its very, very difficult to do so
I don't know when Moyes team play in Spain, but I sincerely hope he is our next manager. The rumours suggest he is keen, think he gets on well with Lerner from comments after O'Neill left and he will get the team organised. First half today I was trying to work out who is playing where. There are some decent players in that squad and we should be doing far better than we are. Sherwood is a fraud, I got stick after the Blues game but have been proved right and take no pleasure in saying that. The team chosen today smacked of a guy who didn't give a toss, to be fair I thought the two in the middle Bacuna and Gana were excellent. How the feck he kept Richardson on when he was clearly struggling against a shite player with pace near the end is a joke, but maybe he was just intent on proving his point on who he wanted at the club. Total twat
Who would you rather have?
Sherwood is a fraud, I got stick after the Blues game but have been proved right and take no pleasure in saying that
Two words:
1. Gareth
2. Southgate
Two words:
1. Gareth
2. Southgate
Check his u21 record when it really counts i.e ignore the qualifiers
Two words:
1. Gareth
2. Southgate
Yes Congratulations to you . You are an absolute guruSherwood is a fraud, I got stick after the Blues game but have been proved right and take no pleasure in saying that
Jesus H. F. Christ.
Two words:
1. Gareth
2. Southgate
Sherwood is a fraud, I got stick after the Blues game but have been proved right and take no pleasure in saying that
Jesus H. F. Christ.
I have a sneaking suspicion that he will not get fired, surely they would have pulled the trigger by now?
Which begs the question, how long could this go on for?I have a sneaking suspicion that he will not get fired, surely they would have pulled the trigger by now?
I think the same. If he was going they would have just done it surely?
Sherwood is a fraud, I got stick after the Blues game but have been proved right and take no pleasure in saying that
Jesus H. F. Christ.
They will pay him off with the proviso that he keeps his big gob shut about what is going on at the club.
Lambert wasn't sacked until the following evening.That was a night game away from home, if it was 2 games to save himself then surely he would be gone.
They will pay him off with the proviso that he keeps his big gob shut about what is going on at the club.
Shame but its what will happen.
At least Gareth gets the soul of the club. Seem to remember him commenting on the lack of mementos on the European Cup win around the place in his book.He also left us because of ambition to join Boro. :'(
I have a sneaking suspicion that he will not get fired, surely they would have pulled the trigger by now?
At least Gareth gets the soul of the club. Seem to remember him commenting on the lack of mementos on the European Cup win around the place in his book.
Don't see why they need a replacement before sacking him even one of the backroom staff would have more idea of what to do.We all think we could do a better job but they seriously need to sound out a replacement first. If the likes of moyes and Rodgers quickly say they aren't interested then who?
At least Gareth gets the soul of the club. Seem to remember him commenting on the lack of mementos on the European Cup win around the place in his book.
At least Gareth gets the soul of the club. Seem to remember him commenting on the lack of mementos on the European Cup win around the place in his book.
Well, that's that sorted then. Southgate comes in, sticks a couple of pictures of Peter Withe on the wall and we start climbing the table to safety.
Can't see what all the fuss is about.
Hopefully tomorrow he'll be gone. Frank de Boer would be the right choice if available and deliverable.
If they keep Dim Tim for any further games, we'll be putting ourselves seriously at risk.
Worrying that in the mail the split is much more even on him getting the boot.
Being Gareth Southgate's employer for a second time would be idiotic.
Aside from Hodge, he was the first player I can recall that openly displayed contempt for the club who was paying his wages at the time, the first of the new breed of modern professionals that tried to talk their way into a move via the backpages.
Worrying that in the mail the split is much more even on him getting the boot.
Blues fans. What a sense of humour they have!
Being Gareth Southgate's employer for a second time would be idiotic.
Aside from Hodge, he was the first player I can recall that openly displayed contempt for the club who was paying his wages at the time, the first of the new breed of modern professionals that tried to talk their way into a move via the backpages.
I didn't see it like that at all, still don't. As far as I remember he put in a transfer request after the 2000 cup final, the club refused it and he went on to have arguably his finest season for us. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but I don't recall any prolonged public agitating for a move, any defamatory stuff in the press, at the time he seemed to just knuckle down and get on with the job. It's easy to mock him joining Boro the following year, but to me that says more about Villa under Ellis than anything else. That an established England international and top six club captain should have deemed Boro more likely to meet his ambitions is a damning indictment of Ellis's parsimony.
You should read Southgate's book, Woody and Nord, it gives quite an insight into Ellis's archaic approach and explains Southgate's frustrations. His desperation to see some ambition from Villa matched ours. He makes the same complaints we all used to. There certainly isn't any contempt shown towards us.
As I said, I may have forgotten examples of him being Hodgelike, or maybe was never aware of them, but I always thought Southgate was an excellent player and intelligent captain who conducted himself very well. There are plenty of players in our recent history who deserve loathing more than him.
Don't want him as manager though, he's crap at that.
Being Gareth Southgate's employer for a second time would be idiotic.
Aside from Hodge, he was the first player I can recall that openly displayed contempt for the club who was paying his wages at the time, the first of the new breed of modern professionals that tried to talk their way into a move via the backpages.
I didn't see it like that at all, still don't. As far as I remember he put in a transfer request after the 2000 cup final, the club refused it and he went on to have arguably his finest season for us. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but I don't recall any prolonged public agitating for a move, any defamatory stuff in the press, at the time he seemed to just knuckle down and get on with the job. It's easy to mock him joining Boro the following year, but to me that says more about Villa under Ellis than anything else. That an established England international and top six club captain should have deemed Boro more likely to meet his ambitions is a damning indictment of Ellis's parsimony.
You should read Southgate's book, Woody and Nord, it gives quite an insight into Ellis's archaic approach and explains Southgate's frustrations. His desperation to see some ambition from Villa matched ours. He makes the same complaints we all used to. There certainly isn't any contempt shown towards us.
As I said, I may have forgotten examples of him being Hodgelike, or maybe was never aware of them, but I always thought Southgate was an excellent player and intelligent captain who conducted himself very well. There are plenty of players in our recent history who deserve loathing more than him.
Don't want him as manager though, he's crap at that.
Worrying that in the mail the split is much more even on him getting the boot.Haha...we are not a one club city like Sunderland or Newcastle so the local paper poll will have other teams supporters making mischief.
Blimey. Given the cheap way we are run, does this mean Appy Arry for the rest of the season?Well i think we might need some Appy Arry referee incentive scheme to keep us up.
Sherwood is a fraud, I got stick after the Blues game but have been proved right and take no pleasure in saying that
Jesus H. F. Christ.
??????, am I not allowed to speak as I feel
Freedom of speech is overrated
Freedom of speech is overrated
You can't say that.
You're banned.
1997, and-after two years of progress under Sir Brian- we have our first rough trot.
Southgate is captain at the time. Do we get a rousing "We'll turn it around/ we're all in this together" clarion call?
No. We get: "A number of players at the club are considering their future, and I could be one of them."
Total arsehole.
It was fairly obvious Platt wouldn't hang around when he started taking Italian lessons. Staunton was always likely to go back to Liverpool when the opportunity was right. But neither took the piss like Southgate.
And in all honesty, if Gareth Southgate felt that a club who regularly finished 5th and 6th were below him, he needed a bit of tough love.
Chelsea didn't go above their £5 million bid in 2000, and had no intention of doing so, according to Ken Bates in his Sunday column at the time. Why would they, as they already had Desailly, Lebouef and Terry at the time. He would have been cover.
If Gareth Southgate had truly been as good as Gareth Southgate believed, he would have had a whole host of top clubs tripping over themselves to sign him. That didn't happen.
At least Gareth gets the soul of the club. Seem to remember him commenting on the lack of mementos on the European Cup win around the place in his book.
Well, that's that sorted then. Southgate comes in, sticks a couple of pictures of Peter Withe on the wall and we start climbing the table to safety.
Can't see what all the fuss is about.
One other thing that amuses me is that there are still people who come on here clamouring for Sid to be put in charge despite him having almost entirely no qualifications to do the job.
At least Gareth gets the soul of the club. Seem to remember him commenting on the lack of mementos on the European Cup win around the place in his book.
Well, that's that sorted then. Southgate comes in, sticks a couple of pictures of Peter Withe on the wall and we start climbing the table to safety.
Can't see what all the fuss is about.
If only someone had told Sherwood, we could have been spared a whole load of bother.
It's the Gary Mabbutt and Glenn Hoddle pictures that are the problem.
One other thing that amuses me is that there are still people who come on here clamouring for Sid to be put in charge despite him having almost entirely no qualifications to do the job.
Fair play usually when I've had a few!
Being Gareth Southgate's employer for a second time would be idiotic.
Aside from Hodge, he was the first player I can recall that openly displayed contempt for the club who was paying his wages at the time, the first of the new breed of modern professionals that tried to talk their way into a move via the backpages.
I didn't see it like that at all, still don't. As far as I remember he put in a transfer request after the 2000 cup final, the club refused it and he went on to have arguably his finest season for us. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but I don't recall any prolonged public agitating for a move, any defamatory stuff in the press, at the time he seemed to just knuckle down and get on with the job. It's easy to mock him joining Boro the following year, but to me that says more about Villa under Ellis than anything else. That an established England international and top six club captain should have deemed Boro more likely to meet his ambitions is a damning indictment of Ellis's parsimony.
You should read Southgate's book, Woody and Nord, it gives quite an insight into Ellis's archaic approach and explains Southgate's frustrations. His desperation to see some ambition from Villa matched ours. He makes the same complaints we all used to. There certainly isn't any contempt shown towards us.
As I said, I may have forgotten examples of him being Hodgelike, or maybe was never aware of them, but I always thought Southgate was an excellent player and intelligent captain who conducted himself very well. There are plenty of players in our recent history who deserve loathing more than him.
Don't want him as manager though, he's crap at that.
My take too Chinchilla. I knew his dad when Southgate played for us and he utterly got the size of the Villa and what we were about. The fact that he joined Boro says more about about how we were being run and where we were headed - after all he won the league cup and played in a UEFA Cup final with them.
I categorically don't want him as a manager though. I couldn't give a shit about the "ex player knows the club cliche".
Whenever I hear the stuff about someone being the man we want because he gets the club or is a Villa man, I think of Newcastle's laughable decision to appoint Alan Shearer.
Insanity.
Voted undecided . I'm not sure the issue is sherwood alone, bigger picture
This is just silhill's stream of consciousness posting style. He'll be back saying that he needs to be sacked fairly sharpish.Voted undecided . I'm not sure the issue is sherwood alone, bigger picture
But surely it's enough of his fault for him not to be in the role for another day longer.
We all know Lerner/Fox are chumps but we need to atleast need to give ourselves a chance of staying up.
A new unwanted record looming: What is the lowest ever points total for a team in the PL? Whatever it is, we should comfortably beat it this season.......bye bye TimDerby when they won once but were getting thrashed most weeks. Something that isn't happening with us...yet
I've got a horrible feeling that he's not going to be sacked.
[/quote
The supporters then would have a difficult decision, the customer is always right.
I've got a horrible feeling that he's not going to be sacked.
[/quote
The supporters then would have a difficult decision, the customer is always right.
If the supporters were going to boycott or anything like that it would have happened years ago.
I've got a horrible feeling that he's not going to be sacked.
I've got a horrible feeling that he's not going to be sacked.
Well if he is to be relieved of his duties it should be today.The only thing stopping that is if Fox has not yet found anyone of stature to take the job on with all the restrictions that have apparently been put in place.
I hope Tim enjoyed his extra hour in a job this morning.
They won't sack him while we have the Southampton cup-tie looming, after all why destabilise the club any more while there's still a slim chance of a cup run, but after the seemingly inevitable defeat on Wednesday I think it will be a done deal.The cup game is neither here nor there and I would be amazed if the board didn't think that too, in our situation now it's a pretty meaningless fixture.
@marcwebber: Breaking: William Hill suspend betting on Tim Sherwood as next #epl manager to go after flurry of big bets #avfc @fcbusiness
I don't give this Board much credit for anything but even they must see that he has to go, he simply must go today.I imagine he will go today. The only thing that might delay this is if the initial sounding out of possible successors is not going well.
They simply cannot be that stupid to think he can stay in charge any longer. it's just no longer an option. He'll be long gone by Saturday.
We'll see.They won't sack him while we have the Southampton cup-tie looming, after all why destabilise the club any more while there's still a slim chance of a cup run, but after the seemingly inevitable defeat on Wednesday I think it will be a done deal.The cup game is neither here nor there and I would be amazed if the board didn't think that too, in our situation now it's a pretty meaningless fixture.
If you recall, last season's tipping point seemed to be the 'Lambert Out' banner at Hull. Was there no such protest yesterday? I luckily missed the game as I'm away.
If you recall, last season's tipping point seemed to be the 'Lambert Out' banner at Hull. Was there no such protest yesterday? I luckily missed the game as I'm away.
If you recall, last season's tipping point seemed to be the 'Lambert Out' banner at Hull. Was there no such protest yesterday? I luckily missed the game as I'm away.
The holte end were singing "Tim Sherwoods claret blue army"
Followed by "Randy Lerner is a wanker" and "Sack the board"
If you recall, last season's tipping point seemed to be the 'Lambert Out' banner at Hull. Was there no such protest yesterday? I luckily missed the game as I'm away.
The holte end were singing "Tim Sherwoods claret blue army"
Followed by "Randy Lerner is a wanker" and "Sack the board"
No they weren't. The back of the Holte Upper were, the rest of us were sat in muted silence watching the car crash unfold.
I dread to think how much the club have spent paying off/settling out of court/compensating/buying the silence of managers in Lerners time, we could have brought half of Real Madrids first team with it I should think...
I dread to think how much the club have spent paying off/settling out of court/compensating/buying the silence of managers in Lerners time, we could have brought half of Real Madrids first team with it I should think...
I actually feel for sherwood , this is not his fault. At all.
Can anyone get a link to the Sunday supplement programme on Skysports this morning? There's just been an interesting five minute discussion on Sherwood. I was surprised at their level of knowledge of our position.
I dread to think how much the club have spent paying off/settling out of court/compensating/buying the silence of managers in Lerners time, we could have brought half of Real Madrids first team with it I should think...
Well they've only got themselves to blame. Dumb decisions all of them from Houllier to Sherwood.
'Nigel Pearson being lined up to replace Tim Sherwood.'
Some good news at last. Now go and get Moyes.Please god no to another dour TSM
'Nigel Pearson being lined up to replace Tim Sherwood.'
Says fucking who?
'Nigel Pearson being lined up to replace Tim Sherwood.'
'Nigel Pearson being lined up to replace Tim Sherwood.'
Says fucking who?
Says no one Monty
'Nigel Pearson being lined up to replace Tim Sherwood.'
'Nigel Pearson being lined up to replace Tim Sherwood.'
Says fucking who?
Says no one Monty
Please God. I nearly vomited up my brain when I saw that.
Some good news at last. Now go and get Moyes.Please god no to another dour TSM
Some good news at last. Now go and get Moyes.Please god no to another dour TSM
If he keeps us in this league though. That's the most important thing. We can worry about our style of football later bit our priority is to stay in the PL.
Some good news at last. Now go and get Moyes.Please god no to another dour TSM
If he keeps us in this league though. That's the most important thing. We can worry about our style of football later bit our priority is to stay in the PL.
The thing with Moyes is his Everton teams were very often in exactly this position before they somehow finished in the top 6 or top 8 by seasons end.
Dwight Yorke wants to 'give it a go'! I nearly wet myself.
Randy will take him as player manager and kill two birds with one stoneDwight Yorke wants to 'give it a go'! I nearly wet myself.
You never know with our bizarre record of appointments.
Dwight Yorke wants to 'give it a go'! I nearly wet myself.
You never know with our bizarre record of appointments.
I feel for him a bit, I liked the bloke and wanted him to turn it well but i'm not surprised after his comments yesterday.
Thanks for last season Tim, i'll always appreciate that. You were woeful this one though.
His record wasn't good last season...but we stayed up.Thanks for last season Tim, i'll always appreciate that. You were woeful this one though.
This.
Dwight Yorke wants to 'give it a go'! I nearly wet myself.
I feel for him a bit, I liked the bloke and wanted him to turn it round but i'm not surprised after his comments yesterday.
His record wasn't good last season...but we stayed up.Thanks for last season Tim, i'll always appreciate that. You were woeful this one though.
This.
His record wasn't good last season...but we stayed up.Thanks for last season Tim, i'll always appreciate that. You were woeful this one though.
This.
The albion and Liverpool cup games last season are added to my list of great Villa games I was at so he'll always have my thanks for that.
The albion and Liverpool cup games last season are added to my list of great Villa games I was at so he'll always have my thanks for that.
I didn't go the Liverpool semi but the Albion game from the moment I woke up, the pub early, feeling as we walked to the ground, the atmosphere, I knew we'd win, it was a great day. A diamond picked from the dung of the last 5 years.
Was never qualified to manage a Premiership club. Says all the right things but does the wrong.
Nigel Pearson next
His record wasn't good last season...but we stayed up.Thanks for last season Tim, i'll always appreciate that. You were woeful this one though.
This.
it was more than good enough after what he inherited and no opportunity to bring in new players
The albion and Liverpool cup games last season are added to my list of great Villa games I was at so he'll always have my thanks for that.
I didn't go the Liverpool semi but the Albion game from the moment I woke up, the pub early, feeling as we walked to the ground, the atmosphere, I knew we'd win, it was a great day. A diamond picked from the dung of the last 5 years.
The Liverpool semi was as perfect a day as I could have wished for.
Who would want the job?
The albion and Liverpool cup games last season are added to my list of great Villa games I was at so he'll always have my thanks for that.
The albion and Liverpool cup games last season are added to my list of great Villa games I was at so he'll always have my thanks for that.
Indeed.
Yeah what we really need right now is a total basket case in charge. Maybe he can bring Roy Keane back as to be his assistant. I'd truly despair if it was Pearson.
We need proven Premiership experience
Yeah what we really need right now is a total basket case in charge. Maybe he can bring Roy Keane back as to be his assistant. I'd truly despair if it was Pearson.
Next to the special one, he may be the most obnoxious tosser going but what is essentially his Leicester team aren't doing too badly are they?
Go bold, go and get De Boer. We think too small time
We need proven Premiership experience
Yep, it's worked the last four times.
It was right he should go. But I will be eternally grateful to him for enabling me to share two memorable days with my teen-age son (WBA and Liverpool), when he was able to experience for the first time the same highs that I had experienced and told him about from the 70s and 80s.
I'd almost be able to stomach Nigel for a short term contract , even though he's a very nasty man. but perhaps that's what we need to stay up.I think Pearson went at the right time. There's no way he'd have kept that form up. He'd have taken Leicester down this season.
Yeah what we really need right now is a total basket case in charge. Maybe he can bring Roy Keane back as to be his assistant. I'd truly despair if it was Pearson.
Next to the special one, he may be the most obnoxious tosser going but what is essentially his Leicester team aren't doing too badly are they?
Moyes, Koeman, Klinsmann there's not a prayer that any of them would be interested in coming to Villa Park. We need proven Premiership experience & whilst Moyes might be the right fit he isn't going to come.
Anyway whoever it is, we can rest assured that it'll be the wrong man at the wrong time.
Villa Park is a tough place for the home side. Visiting managers say keep the crowd quiet for the first 20 minutes and they will turn. That has not just been the case for Tim Sherwood, but any manager. Who can realistically come in and turn it round? But when you go there it's a big club.
Jack is gutted.
https://twitter.com/JackGrealish1
Wont be moyes
I really am at a loss to see so many people saying that they like sherwood. I cannot see anything redeeming about his personality at all.He deserves credit for keeping us up last season.
Inevitable and pleased it's happened but I wish him well. I still quite like the guy. DOL, now that's an ex villa manager I really don't like. If that smug, flarey nostrelled son of a bitch comes anywhere near Villa park it will truly put the tin hat on Lerners reign of terror.
And it won't be much better if that potential serial murderer Nigel Pearson lands the job.
Wont be moyes
I hope your ITK is better than your last one there JP
I really am at a loss to see so many people saying that they like sherwood. I cannot see anything redeeming about his personality at all.
Wont be moyes
I hope your ITK is better than your last one there JP
I said he would be gone
Wont be moyes
I hope your ITK is better than your last one there JP
I said he would be gone
So did I. So did every fucker on here.
Wont be moyes
I hope your ITK is better than your last one there JP
I said he would be gone
So did I. So did every fucker on here.
That's a different discussion entirely.I really am at a loss to see so many people saying that they like sherwood. I cannot see anything redeeming about his personality at all.He deserves credit for keeping us up last season.
So his final comments were a damming swipe at the players and their ability levels.I really am at a loss to see so many people saying that they like sherwood. I cannot see anything redeeming about his personality at all.
You should read the comments on the Guardian article - Sherwood seems to have convinced a lot of people that the club got rid of Benteke, Delph, Cleverley and Vlaar out from under him and then imposed a lot of players on him that he did not want. I do wonder if the folk saying this would have him as their teams' manager.
Have a look: Tim Sherwood sacked as Aston Villa manager (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/oct/25/tim-sherwood-sacked-aston-villa-manager)
Wont be moyes
I hope your ITK is better than your last one there JP
I said he would be gone
Wont be moyes
I hope your ITK is better than your last one there JP
I said he would be gone
So did I. So did every fucker on here.
Indeed, you don't need to be wearing a deerstalker and puffing a pipe to have spotted that.
Yep. The same players who in almost every case, he seemed delighted to have signed and insisted he'd had input in signing when they were unveiled. He talks an absolute load of old twaddle.So his final comments were a damming swipe at the players and their ability levels.I really am at a loss to see so many people saying that they like sherwood. I cannot see anything redeeming about his personality at all.
You should read the comments on the Guardian article - Sherwood seems to have convinced a lot of people that the club got rid of Benteke, Delph, Cleverley and Vlaar out from under him and then imposed a lot of players on him that he did not want. I do wonder if the folk saying this would have him as their teams' manager.
Have a look: Tim Sherwood sacked as Aston Villa manager (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/oct/25/tim-sherwood-sacked-aston-villa-manager)
The albion and Liverpool cup games last season are added to my list of great Villa games I was at so he'll always have my thanks for that.
Indeed.
Wont be moyes
I hope your ITK is better than your last one there JP
I said he would be gone
I don't think I've ever seen a poll result on here as unanimous as this one.
doesn't look like adebeyour will be joining us then........
The next managerial appointment must be the right one, not another wannabe who hasn't the experience needed.
I have an itk. Remi Gard whoever he is. Well I say an itk he's 1/4 on.
Wont be moyes
I hope your ITK is better than your last one there JP
I said he would be gone
You assured us he would be gone before Swansea. A blind chipmunk could see he was a dead man walking and it was just a case of when.
Wont be moyes
I hope your ITK is better than your last one there JP
I said he would be gone
You assured us he would be gone before Swansea. A blind chipmunk could see he was a dead man walking and it was just a case of when.
I also said the new man wasnt british. But i dont really care what you think to be honest . ;)
Premier league experienced managers worth getting
Rodgers
Laudrup
Pearson
I see Sherwood no better than poyet or di canio. Steve kean was particularly awful but the others were established players so got away with some kudos when all they did was inspire their teams for a few games. Keegan type managers who motivate then novelty wears off.
The likes of mulenstean at Fulham a few years ago did nothing to prove a good coach can take on a team as Sherwood and Ramsey
Bilic and ranieri are foreign coaches who doing well so could explore that market and koeman has been impressive so a manager like these would be worth taking.
Quique flores could go either way and advocat was unlucky. I think a manager who can deal with these french players like Remy garde and maybe ginola as attacking coach Glenn hoddle involved too with his youth and French knowledge. If not laudrup or rodgers or pearson. Add Merson rather than ginola could be more realistic and maybe steve Clark to step in after hoddle with Remy garde is too risky. I'd rather have set up like that with some flair .
doesn't look like adebeyour will be joining us then........
That cheered me up!
Wont be moyes
I hope your ITK is better than your last one there JP
I said he would be gone
You assured us he would be gone before Swansea. A blind chipmunk could see he was a dead man walking and it was just a case of when.
I also said the new man wasnt british. But i dont really care what you think to be honest . ;)
Wont be moyes
I hope your ITK is better than your last one there JP
I said he would be gone
You assured us he would be gone before Swansea. A blind chipmunk could see he was a dead man walking and it was just a case of when.
I also said the new man wasnt british. But i dont really care what you think to be honest . ;)
I predicted back in February Sherwood would be gone in November. We can't get everything completely right, JP, can we? ;)
Sherwood out Adebayor won't be coming.This Sunday keeps getting better! Mind you thisdoesn't look like adebeyour will be joining us then........
That cheered me up!
Depends on what his God says
Wont be moyes
I hope your ITK is better than your last one there JP
I said he would be gone
You assured us he would be gone before Swansea. A blind chipmunk could see he was a dead man walking and it was just a case of when.
I also said the new man wasnt british. But i dont really care what you think to be honest . ;)
I think you said he wasnt scottish thereby ruling out Moyes
Absolutely delighted to see the back of this utterly hopeless manager (at this level), but nothing personal against the bloke. Surprised to read some saying he's as much of a tool as O'Dreary. Tim Sherwood has a modicum of charm and personality. O'Leary really doesn't.
Why the f##k was o dreary third fave on bookies.
I see our mate Gregg Evans has been very quick to write an article on how much Sherwood might be paid in compensation. It's a truly irrelevant article but something that without context will piss some people off. Which no doubt is his aim. In its proper context whatever Sherwood gets paid is a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of relegation. That's what he should be writing about.
You cared enough to reply ;)
I think most would have preferred for him to succeed and be here for a few years.