Poll - Sherwood - got rid

[aev]

TS on fans.. 'They were singing my name three weeks ago - they will be singing it in three weeks time.'

Three weeks ago?

[saunders_heroes]

Not for me Saunders, he couldn't mastermind beating Bradford over two legs, even with the tools we had we should have fucking pumped them at home but the second half was atrocious and he was completely found out. Didn't have a clue.

True, and I wanted him out as much as the next Villa fan. I just think he had both hands tied behind his back because of Lerner's ridiculous cost cutting (the cause of all the club's problems over the last 5 years).

[saunders_heroes]

I just found all his style of football a little industrial and his player selection and purchases always supported that. Man many years of floating and not doing anything other than an awful start with a flurry in the last half of the season. No cups, no finals just nothing

Some might say better than struggling as we are now - but not for me

TSM mk3

Everton were beaten by Chelsea in the 2009 FA Cup final.

If we're considering finishing regularly in the top 6 as nothing or floating, then I don't really know what to say.

I wouldn't mind floating around the top 6 for a few years. I mean don't you have to win a few games to get that high up the table?

[Monty]

How was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.

He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.

I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?

As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.

In order:

 - Lambert was a water-treader because, of all the managers in the world, they yet-again decided that 'Premier League experience' was the vital criterion. That's such a conservative and insular way of thinking, and designed to do nothing but hopefully keep us bumbling safely around this league. Moyes would be similar.

 - Those circumstances may well have been unusual, but they're still all we have. I don't think the evidence is there to suggest he'd take us down, but I don't think it's there to suggest he'd be much of a modernising force at the club. If he were, he could have done quite well in Spain; as he isn't, he hasn't.

 - Yes he built the platform, but my point is that the game has moved on since that platform - a defence of stoppers, Lee Carsley in midfield, long-balls-to-the-big-man - was really effective in the Premier League. It's maximum position used to be 5th or even 4th, but now it's probably 12th at absolute best, and Everton continued to do well because of stability (much underrated). Now, I'd kill for 12th right now, but it would all be a bit pointless.

 - On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.

[Ads]

I just found all his style of football a little industrial and his player selection and purchases always supported that. Man many years of floating and not doing anything other than an awful start with a flurry in the last half of the season. No cups, no finals just nothing

Some might say better than struggling as we are now - but not for me

TSM mk3

Everton were beaten by Chelsea in the 2009 FA Cup final.

If we're considering finishing regularly in the top 6 as nothing or floating, then I don't really know what to say.

I wouldn't mind floating around the top 6 for a few years. I mean don't you have to win a few games to get that high up the table?

I think such floating means that opposition fans look at next weeks fixture, see they're playing the Villa and think "bugger" rather than rubbing their hands and looking at the next game to see if they can make it two wins on the spin.

[Ads]

I cannot accept this argument that Moyes being a safe pair of hands is a bad thing. A safe pair of hands that picked Everton up from their backside and put them back where we're traditionally used to seeing Everton; in top 5/6 and competing at the right end of table.

Comparisons with managers like Allardyce, McLeish, Lambert etc. aren't relevant because they've not done anything remotely similar.

[Chris Smith]

I think it is probably a little fanciful to think that we can go from years of battling relegation to being contenders for a top 6 spot without going through a couple of years of consolidation or  a sudden input of a hundred million or so. What we need is a manager who can establish us on firm foundations and then look to build from there. Moyes fits the bill. What comes after that is as much about money as anything else and unless we are in a position to compete with the big spenders then a best of the rest option is going to be the best we can aim for and again Moyes has previous.

[Monty]

It's not a bad thing, it could just be a better thing. For a decade this club has been making appointments entirely within the world of British football of the 1990s. When we ask how it is that clubs like Swansea and Southampton surge ahead of us, we shouldn't be surprised to find that the answer is 'they didn't appoint someone like David Moyes'.

I'd trust Moyes to keep us safe, and much more than I would Sherwood or Lambert or McLeish, but that's about it. This club needs to be kicked into the present century.

[Ads]

Come on Monty. The game in this league has moved on so much so since Moyes last season in Everton, a staggering two and a bit years, that he'd be out of touch?

A season where they finished 6th, won 16 and only lost 7 and had 63 points in the bag.

[andyh]

I cannot accept this argument that Moyes being a safe pair of hands is a bad thing. A safe pair of hands that picked Everton up from their backside and put them back where we're traditionally used to seeing Everton; in top 5/6 and competing at the right end of table.

Comparisons with managers like Allardyce, McLeish, Lambert etc. aren't relevant because they've not done anything remotely similar.

I think we want our cake want to be able to eat it.

We crave security and stability.
Which, in reality is exactly what we should want.

But we also want to dream that one day we just might be a contender. 
And, maybe the right manager might keep that dream alive.

[passitsideways]

How was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.

He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.

I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?

As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.

In order:

 - Lambert was a water-treader because, of all the managers in the world, they yet-again decided that 'Premier League experience' was the vital criterion. That's such a conservative and insular way of thinking, and designed to do nothing but hopefully keep us bumbling safely around this league. Moyes would be similar.

 - Those circumstances may well have been unusual, but they're still all we have. I don't think the evidence is there to suggest he'd take us down, but I don't think it's there to suggest he'd be much of a modernising force at the club. If he were, he could have done quite well in Spain; as he isn't, he hasn't.

 - Yes he built the platform, but my point is that the game has moved on since that platform - a defence of stoppers, Lee Carsley in midfield, long-balls-to-the-big-man - was really effective in the Premier League. It's maximum position used to be 5th or even 4th, but now it's probably 12th at absolute best, and Everton continued to do well because of stability (much underrated). Now, I'd kill for 12th right now, but it would all be a bit pointless.

 - On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.

Basically all fair points, but I suppose we differ in terms of how we want the club to get from point A to point B (point B presumably being a club consistently in play for the European spots.) I consider it a two-step process where we hire someone boring to start it off, while working particularly hard to identify the successor who takes the big steps.

I don't really think it's a matter of 'modernising', so to speak, that we should be prioritising. I know it's not ideal to have someone as dull as Moyes in there, but we've run ourselves into such a mess that honestly I think that no other approach is all that realistic (or as a different way of expressing it, I think it would be too much of a gamble.)

[Monty]

Come on Monty. The game in this league has moved on so much so since Moyes last season in Everton, a staggering two and a bit years, that he'd be out of touch?

A season where they finished 6th, won 16 and only lost 7 and had 63 points in the bag.

Read my post again - I said they continued to do well because of stability, in the main. Having a really settled team who know exactly what they're doing (and who had some very good players as well) is a massive help. The point is that he couldn't do it again in the same way, I think.

passitsideways, I think that would be sensible, but it's never going to happen. Randy clearly wants to appoint a manager he can let run the club for the next decade, should he still own the place. I don't think he's into strategic replacements and so on.

[passitsideways]

Come on Monty. The game in this league has moved on so much so since Moyes last season in Everton, a staggering two and a bit years, that he'd be out of touch?

A season where they finished 6th, won 16 and only lost 7 and had 63 points in the bag.

Read my post again - I said they continued to do well because of stability, in the main. Having a really settled team who know exactly what they're doing (and who had some very good players as well) is a massive help. The point is that he couldn't do it again in the same way, I think.

passitsideways, I think that would be sensible, but it's never going to happen. Randy clearly wants to appoint a manager he can let run the club for the next decade, should he still own the place. I don't think he's into strategic replacements and so on.

If that's really the case, I think I accept your point about not having Moyes. I just don't think we can assume that (or at least I'd rather not think we should assume, because it would be annoying to me for us to keep just swinging at the fences) just because he's made noises about that, when push comes to shove, he'll stick to that path.

[oldhill_avfc]

How was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.

He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.

I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?

As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.

In order:

 - Lambert was a water-treader because, of all the managers in the world, they yet-again decided that 'Premier League experience' was the vital criterion. That's such a conservative and insular way of thinking, and designed to do nothing but hopefully keep us bumbling safely around this league. Moyes would be similar.

 - Those circumstances may well have been unusual, but they're still all we have. I don't think the evidence is there to suggest he'd take us down, but I don't think it's there to suggest he'd be much of a modernising force at the club. If he were, he could have done quite well in Spain; as he isn't, he hasn't.

 - Yes he built the platform, but my point is that the game has moved on since that platform - a defence of stoppers, Lee Carsley in midfield, long-balls-to-the-big-man - was really effective in the Premier League. It's maximum position used to be 5th or even 4th, but now it's probably 12th at absolute best, and Everton continued to do well because of stability (much underrated). Now, I'd kill for 12th right now, but it would all be a bit pointless.

 - On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.

Why on earth are you obsessed with Jack, Gill, Gestede and Ayew?  If there's any chance of progression over the next few seasons then 3 out of those 4 will have to be long gone.

[Monty]

Maybe because they play for the club? What a weird question.