Poll - Sherwood - got rid

[KRS]

Keeping it as simplistic as possible...

TS came in last season with an out of form Benteke returning from injury and Delph having his best season in a Villa shirt. The players were low on confidence and clueless under Lambert so all TS had to do was liven things up and give them some direction. We saw some great high tempo football initially and got the results due to the simple tactic of hitting Benteke early and attacking midfielders pushing on. Unfortunately, and as discussed on here, the high tempo game wasn't sustainable game to game due to lack of fitness, and subsequently results tailed off as we reverted to clueless long ball/crossing into Benteke tactics. TS didn't really have to think much to get the game plan and results with Benteke and Delph in the team.

Fast forward to this season...a virtual team of unknown players, no idea of how to get them to play, changing tactics, changing lineups, changing formations...TS is literally taking a punt with each passing game (or every 45 minutes) in the hope that he stumbles across something that works (and even if it does work for a bit, he dumps it if the end result isn't a win and starts again instead of fine tuning). Basically TS needs to think but he doesn't have the knowledge or the experience to see and put together what he has at his disposal.

We will get relegated with TS. Make the managerial change, strengthen in January and we have enough to avoid relegation this season.

[john e]

The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word

So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,

I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,

mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
 Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet

Cross me off that list until last season.  Where stayed up by the skin off our teeth having ditched a manager that couldn't have worked out how to win a black eye in a boxing ring, let alone a football match.

I don't know what signs you've seen to think Sherwood has it within him to turn this season around.  I've not found anyone who could give a reason to keep him other than

Blind hope
Wouldn't be fair on him so soon
Small time / Newcastleesque to sack him soon.

I have blind hope over a number of things, but I don't actually expect any of them to come true
It wouldn't be fair on us to let him relegate us, and it wouldn't be fair to him to drive him down to the extent the job drove Lambert down.  In the end with Lambert it was almost a humanitarian decision to put him out of his misery and Sherwood looks like he's heading the same way.
Small time would be not sacking him because we were worried how it looked to the outside world and going down as a result.

Now has anyone got any footballing reasons to keep him that are more concrete than think/hope he'll turn it around?

The best concrete footballing reason that your looking for is -

He's already done it once

[Dave]

The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word

So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,

I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,

mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
 Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet

Cross me off that list until last season.  Where stayed up by the skin off our teeth having ditched a manager that couldn't have worked out how to win a black eye in a boxing ring, let alone a football match.

I don't know what signs you've seen to think Sherwood has it within him to turn this season around.  I've not found anyone who could give a reason to keep him other than

Blind hope
Wouldn't be fair on him so soon
Small time / Newcastleesque to sack him soon.

I have blind hope over a number of things, but I don't actually expect any of them to come true
It wouldn't be fair on us to let him relegate us, and it wouldn't be fair to him to drive him down to the extent the job drove Lambert down.  In the end with Lambert it was almost a humanitarian decision to put him out of his misery and Sherwood looks like he's heading the same way.
Small time would be not sacking him because we were worried how it looked to the outside world and going down as a result.

Now has anyone got any footballing reasons to keep him that are more concrete than think/hope he'll turn it around?

The best concrete footballing reason that your looking for is -

He's already done it once

That's also perfect logic for why we shouldn't have sacked Lambert last February.

After all, he'd already done it twice.

[Toronto Villa]

I think he came in with something very simple last season and ultimately almost foreign to the players and it worked. It released the players from the shackles of the Lambert era and the freedom it created was sufficient to see us across the line. While there was pressure in the end had we gone down nobody would have really pointed the finger at him because at the time staying up would have been considered a bit of a miracle but ultimately the only goal.

Now with much more responsibility he is overcomplicating matters. He almost has too much time to think and what was a clear defined objective is becoming more complex. Even for a manager with experience the addition of so many players would be a challenge but add that in with someone in their first real campaign and I just think it is going too fast for him. The team selection last week for me at least signalled the first true sign of madness. We've heard him make lots of ego/confidence driven statements but they are now just becoming odd and uncomfortable. And the fact that he can go an entire week of practice and come to that team conclusion said a lot about where he is and worryingly where his mind is headed.

[Monty]

The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word

So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,

I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,

mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
 Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet

Cross me off that list until last season.  Where stayed up by the skin off our teeth having ditched a manager that couldn't have worked out how to win a black eye in a boxing ring, let alone a football match.

I don't know what signs you've seen to think Sherwood has it within him to turn this season around.  I've not found anyone who could give a reason to keep him other than

Blind hope
Wouldn't be fair on him so soon
Small time / Newcastleesque to sack him soon.

I have blind hope over a number of things, but I don't actually expect any of them to come true
It wouldn't be fair on us to let him relegate us, and it wouldn't be fair to him to drive him down to the extent the job drove Lambert down.  In the end with Lambert it was almost a humanitarian decision to put him out of his misery and Sherwood looks like he's heading the same way.
Small time would be not sacking him because we were worried how it looked to the outside world and going down as a result.

Now has anyone got any footballing reasons to keep him that are more concrete than think/hope he'll turn it around?

The best concrete footballing reason that your looking for is -

He's already done it once

That's also perfect logic for why we shouldn't have sacked Lambert last February.

After all, he'd already done it twice.

Kapow!

[DB]

Majority influence takes effect at time like these. With have no more or less data to assess than we did on Saturday, save emotion has now expired. We have a forum to talk, so these things begin to amplify as time passes.

It works both ways.

To be fair to Rogers, he was only 1 part of the team that selected and sighed players...why other members of that team have not been held to account is anyones guess.

[john e]

The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word

So just as the board have got there decisions wrong so have those thinking we would be down by now,
What I'm saying is your (relegation doomsters) record is not that great, in fact 100% wrong so far! I have in no way written this season off just yet with or without Sherwood,

I don't think we will stick with Sherwood if things remain the same, so he will either turn it round or we will rely on a new manager to keep us up, either way I'm still hopefull,

mainly because we have a group of decent players, a bit of everything apart from a good striker, which is a big problem admittedly,
 Remember he did the seemingly impossible last year with a lot less time, so let's not lose faith just yet

Cross me off that list until last season.  Where stayed up by the skin off our teeth having ditched a manager that couldn't have worked out how to win a black eye in a boxing ring, let alone a football match.

I don't know what signs you've seen to think Sherwood has it within him to turn this season around.  I've not found anyone who could give a reason to keep him other than

Blind hope
Wouldn't be fair on him so soon
Small time / Newcastleesque to sack him soon.

I have blind hope over a number of things, but I don't actually expect any of them to come true
It wouldn't be fair on us to let him relegate us, and it wouldn't be fair to him to drive him down to the extent the job drove Lambert down.  In the end with Lambert it was almost a humanitarian decision to put him out of his misery and Sherwood looks like he's heading the same way.
Small time would be not sacking him because we were worried how it looked to the outside world and going down as a result.

Now has anyone got any footballing reasons to keep him that are more concrete than think/hope he'll turn it around?

The best concrete footballing reason that your looking for is -

He's already done it once

That's also perfect logic for why we shouldn't have sacked Lambert last February.

After all, he'd already done it twice.

He was asking for a reason, I gave him one
Lambert was given 2/3 seasons to prove he was shit not 8 games, I think there is a big difference there

I'm also not saying he/you are wrong, Just because he did it last season doesn't mean he can repeat the trick,
 but if your looking for a reason as VID was as to what evidence there is to for Sherwood to turn things around, then the experience of having done it 6 months ago has to be exhibit number one

[Monty]

Majority influence takes effect at time like these. With have no more or less data to assess than we did on Saturday, save emotion has now expired. We have a forum to talk, so these things begin to amplify as time passes.

It works both ways.

To be fair to Rogers, he was only 1 part of the team that selected and sighed players...why other members of that team have not been held to account is anyones guess.

Rodgers had to accept players being signed for him, who he didn't want. How is that going to work out in the dressing room? I understand a group able to veto the manager if he wants to make a stupid signing - we could have used that when MON was in charge - but forcing players on the manager is a daft idea.

[andyh]

I think he came in with something very simple last season and ultimately almost foreign to the players and it worked. It released the players from the shackles of the Lambert era and the freedom it created was sufficient to see us across the line. While there was pressure in the end had we gone down nobody would have really pointed the finger at him because at the time staying up would have been considered a bit of a miracle but ultimately the only goal.

Now with much more responsibility he is overcomplicating matters. He almost has too much time to think and what was a clear defined objective is becoming more complex. Even for a manager with experience the addition of so many players would be a challenge but add that in with someone in their first real campaign and I just think it is going too fast for him. The team selection last week for me at least signalled the first true sign of madness. We've heard him make lots of ego/confidence driven statements but they are now just becoming odd and uncomfortable. And the fact that he can go an entire week of practice and come to that team conclusion said a lot about where he is and worryingly where his mind is headed.

Good points, well made TV.

When you say 'see us across the line' lets remember that we barely scraped across it, by 1 place and 3 points.
 

[Toronto Villa]

I think he came in with something very simple last season and ultimately almost foreign to the players and it worked. It released the players from the shackles of the Lambert era and the freedom it created was sufficient to see us across the line. While there was pressure in the end had we gone down nobody would have really pointed the finger at him because at the time staying up would have been considered a bit of a miracle but ultimately the only goal.

Now with much more responsibility he is overcomplicating matters. He almost has too much time to think and what was a clear defined objective is becoming more complex. Even for a manager with experience the addition of so many players would be a challenge but add that in with someone in their first real campaign and I just think it is going too fast for him. The team selection last week for me at least signalled the first true sign of madness. We've heard him make lots of ego/confidence driven statements but they are now just becoming odd and uncomfortable. And the fact that he can go an entire week of practice and come to that team conclusion said a lot about where he is and worryingly where his mind is headed.

Good points, well made TV.

When you say 'see us across the line' lets remember that we barely scraped across it, by 1 place and 3 points.
 

Andy, after the Hull game I'd have taken getting across the line on goal difference with the deciding goal coming off the refs arse deep into injury time.

[skerra52]

Isn't it odd that when the memory is fresh, like after last Saturday's debacle,  and, this poll was first set up, 80% of the votes were for sacking TS immediately. Gradually, as the memory of yet another piss poor performance fades, it is now 7% less and dropping.

We are funny creatures as the same happens with pre-match threads. Usually, they start off fairly even but, as match day approaches, the %age gets higher for us to win. However, after the match and, another abysmal performance, the TS out brigade far outweigh the keep him/give more time. Until a few days after each match.....etc.etc.ad infinitum!!

[tomd2103]

I think he came in with something very simple last season and ultimately almost foreign to the players and it worked. It released the players from the shackles of the Lambert era and the freedom it created was sufficient to see us across the line. While there was pressure in the end had we gone down nobody would have really pointed the finger at him because at the time staying up would have been considered a bit of a miracle but ultimately the only goal.

Now with much more responsibility he is overcomplicating matters. He almost has too much time to think and what was a clear defined objective is becoming more complex. Even for a manager with experience the addition of so many players would be a challenge but add that in with someone in their first real campaign and I just think it is going too fast for him. The team selection last week for me at least signalled the first true sign of madness. We've heard him make lots of ego/confidence driven statements but they are now just becoming odd and uncomfortable. And the fact that he can go an entire week of practice and come to that team conclusion said a lot about where he is and worryingly where his mind is headed.

I also think he is beginning to panic.  I can't understand why he didn't build on the 2nd half performance against Blues and go forward with that formation.  We played 4-2-3-1 in the 2nd half against Blues and looked a lot more comfortable than in any other formation we have tried so far. 

[ClaretAndBlueBlood]

Majority influence takes effect at time like these. With have no more or less data to assess than we did on Saturday, save emotion has now expired. We have a forum to talk, so these things begin to amplify as time passes.

It works both ways.

To be fair to Rogers, he was only 1 part of the team that selected and sighed players...why other members of that team have not been held to account is anyones guess.

Rodgers had to accept players being signed for him, who he didn't want. How is that going to work out in the dressing room? I understand a group able to veto the manager if he wants to make a stupid signing - we could have used that when MON was in charge - but forcing players on the manager is a daft idea.

do we know that isn't happening at Villa? do we know that the French players, and others signed, are Timmy's choices and not Reilly's?

[olaftab]

The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word

No that's not true. Certainly not for me. This is the first season that we have fallen significantly behind on games played and points accumulated. Previous years we had stayed on the fringe and generally games and points were equal.
 After the next 6 Chelsea, Swansea, Southampton, Spurs, Man city and Everton we are likely to have no more than 7 points from 14 games. This will be an unrecoverable position IMO.

[rougegorge]

The same people moaning and whinging about how we are certainties for relegation are the same people who expected it and have been banging in about it the last 4 seasons, your saying exactly the same things word for word

No that's not true. Certainly not for me. This is the first season that we have fallen significantly behind on games played and points accumulated. Previous years we had stayed on the fringe and generally games and points were equal.
 After the next 6 Chelsea, Swansea, Southampton, Spurs, Man city and Everton we are likely to have no more than 7 points from 14 games. This will be an unrecoverable position IMO.

Yes, and in mine...are we even likely to get a point let alone a win against any of these teams? It is all very well saying that it's only 8 games into the season but we've had a relatively easy start and fallen short so how can anyone be confident that after 14 games we'll have turned it around against a much better set of opponents.