Poll - Sherwood - got rid

[AVH87]

On Moyes, his 11 years at Everton were obviously very impressive, and he also had 4 very good years at Preston before that which nobody mentions. He took over Preston in division 2, got promoted in his first full season to division 1 and then finished in the play-offs, missing out on promotion to the Prem narrowly in the play-off final.

15 successful years in England, 1 unsuccessful at the biggest club in the country.

1 year at Sociedad, taking them from 15th to 12th when he had the majority of the season, but has admittedly had a bad start this season.

We are talking about a bad period of 1 season and 7 games in over 17 years of management.

[Tom_Mc9?]

I could be pedantic and point out he had a bad season at Everton, but nobody likes that guy.

I agree with you - his record is very good and the sort of thing we need.

[andyh]

It seems to me that if we want to muddle along finishing beween 6th and 14th every year and having the odd cup run every now and then, then Moyes would be the perfect answer.

And given the last 5 years we have endured, who wouldn't want that?

BUT, where is the excitement going to come from?
Where is the feeling that in 3-4 years time we could push on for top 4 ?

I fully understand that top 4 is a pipe dream , but surely you need to put in place a manager capable of achieving that and then work towards that goal.

Moyes would be (welcome) stability but at the expense of real ambition, I feel.     
 

   

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It seems to me that if we want to muddle along finishing beween 6th and 14th every year and having the odd cup run every now and then, then Moyes would be the perfect answer.

And given the last 5 years we have endured, who wouldn't want that?

BUT, where is the excitement going to come from?
Where is the feeling that in 3-4 years time we could push on for top 4 ?

I fully understand that top 4 is a pipe dream , but surely you need to put in place a manager capable of achieving that and then work towards that goal.

Moyes would be (welcome) stability but at the expense of real ambition, I feel.     
 

   

The central premise to this seems to be the notion that there is a genuine comparison to be made by sides who finish 6th and those who finish 14th, when that seems to be entirely disingenuous and consequently, suggests that muddling is an erroneous description.

Finishing in the top 6 means you’ve beaten sides like Spurs, Everton and Liverpool to that spot. Finishing in the top 8 means you’ve pipped good sides like Southampton and Swansea too.

While the levels of excitement are subjective, the requirements to finish in the top 8 are 50 plus points and in the top 6, 60 plus points. That suggests you’re winning around 14-16 games a season and losing less than a third. Usually you’re scoring more goals than the opposition too.

I think you could present a strong case to suggest that winning and outscoring the opposition is rewarding and exciting.

It seems an odd notion to rightly consider a Champions League spot a pipe dream; to be competing with sides like Man United, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal who turn over several hundred million pounds per annum and then suggest that it would be the manager and their ambition that is the limiting factor in achieving that dream. Notwithstanding that the manager under discussion is one of the few to have broken open the cartel.

[VILLA MOLE]

It seems to me that if we want to muddle along finishing beween 6th and 14th every year and having the odd cup run every now and then, then Moyes would be the perfect answer.

And given the last 5 years we have endured, who wouldn't want that?

BUT, where is the excitement going to come from?
Where is the feeling that in 3-4 years time we could push on for top 4 ?

I fully understand that top 4 is a pipe dream , but surely you need to put in place a manager capable of achieving that and then work towards that goal.

Moyes would be (welcome) stability but at the expense of real ambition, I feel.     
 

Ambition feels like 17th at the moment 

[Monty]

I'm just unconvinced he'd be the guy to use the players we have to the best of their ability. First off, guaranteed he plays Gestede - absolutely guaranteed. Secondly, does he play both Gil and Grealish? That doesn't suit his so-called 'pragmatism', yet it's the most pragmatic way we have of getting points. Thirdly, he did well at Everton, but it was built on a platform established quite a while ago which seemed to do decently each year out of habit - as soon as he's replicated his strategies elsewhere he's been a failure.

I'm not saying he'd be a disaster for us at all, and I certainly wouldn't be upset like I was at the TSM or Sherwood appointments, but it would feel to me a bit like the Lambert appointment - a treading-water deal, and yet another missed opportunity to modernise the club.

[aj2k77]

Wouldn't it be nice to not be a complete shambles defensively though. I watch every game expecting to concede 2.

[Hookeysmith]

I just found all his style of football a little industrial and his player selection and purchases always supported that. Man many years of floating and not doing anything other than an awful start with a flurry in the last half of the season. No cups, no finals just nothing

Some might say better than struggling as we are now - but not for me

TSM mk3

[andyh]

Hookeysmith has put it better than me. 

[passitsideways]

I'm just unconvinced he'd be the guy to use the players we have to the best of their ability. First off, guaranteed he plays Gestede - absolutely guaranteed. Secondly, does he play both Gil and Grealish? That doesn't suit his so-called 'pragmatism', yet it's the most pragmatic way we have of getting points. Thirdly, he did well at Everton, but it was built on a platform established quite a while ago which seemed to do decently each year out of habit - as soon as he's replicated his strategies elsewhere he's been a failure.

I'm not saying he'd be a disaster for us at all, and I certainly wouldn't be upset like I was at the TSM or Sherwood appointments, but it would feel to me a bit like the Lambert appointment - a treading-water deal, and yet another missed opportunity to modernise the club.

How was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.

He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.

I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?

As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.

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It suits my pragmatism as well then, because I don’t think we can have Gil and Grealish in the side either without either sacrificing pace, which you need in this league or defensive solidarity in the midfield.

With both of them in the air and somebody with pace wide of the forward, it leaves us with just two centrally and, as seen in the second half against Leicester, we’re wide open as a result.

He’s a very good manager, 34 league games in arguably the most difficult job in football doesn’t alter that. Especially when the subtle difference between him and Beaker appears to be an intangible spawny quality of Beakers Man United being crap and winning and Moyes Man United getting what they deserved.

[berneboy]

TS on fans.. 'They were singing my name three weeks ago - they will be singing it in three weeks time.'

[saunders_heroes]

Lambert might have been a decent manager for us if had been given the tools for the job. The laughable "young and hungry" cost cutting debacle was his downfall.

[aj2k77]

Not for me Saunders, he couldn't mastermind beating Bradford over two legs, even with the tools we had we should have fucking pumped them at home but the second half was atrocious and he was completely found out. Didn't have a clue.

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I just found all his style of football a little industrial and his player selection and purchases always supported that. Man many years of floating and not doing anything other than an awful start with a flurry in the last half of the season. No cups, no finals just nothing

Some might say better than struggling as we are now - but not for me

TSM mk3

Everton were beaten by Chelsea in the 2009 FA Cup final.

If we're considering finishing regularly in the top 6 as nothing or floating, then I don't really know what to say.