Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on May 25, 2025, 06:00:51 PM
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Robbed by the ref but we were very poor.
A positive is that 7th, 4th, 6th is our best run of places in nearly 30 years and at a time when the top end is more competitive than ever.
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Dreadful. Disaster. Disgusting.
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Disgraceful.
We'd better win the Europa to make up for it.
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In the end, there is sadness.
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Just fuck off, Villa. Emi - hope we get some decent money, you temperamental twat.
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Fuck, fuck, fuckity fuck.
Everton gave us hope.
The official took it away
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Looking forward to what Unai says and also Emi.
I'm appalled by the mistakes, the performance and the ref. Everything went wrong for us in our game.
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Shameful performance. Emery needs to have a think about why we keep on failing to turn up when it matters.
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Unai, Monchi, Damian....fuming. But we were crap and Emi went full on Argentina on us.
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One point. One point would have done it.
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Even fucking Newcastle helped by losing and even with that we still pull out a disgusting performance.
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Shocking last game.
Emi, what a twat, hjoland probably would have missed anyway.
Very poor performance generally.
That Ref…… WTF.
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It's becoming a theme in the big, big games these past few years.
Slow, passive shite and waiting to be put out of our misery.
Kudos to the bloke in charge for getting us into a position where we have the big games in the first place.
But what is going to change next year.
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Disappointed with how we played and the referee. But we have two routes into the Champions League next season, and being in the Europa League with a manager that always wins the Europa League might not be the worst thing in the world.
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Turns out GD is worth a point after all.
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Aston Villa being Aston Villa.
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Hopefully it genuinely hurts ( like it does for us ) for them and they come back fighting again for the top 4/5 and winning that Europa league...hopefully.
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Only two points and a win off of last seasons tally but boy am I annoyed tonight, it feels like a disappointing season even though I'd have been pleased with the Europa back on Boxing Day. Bottled it at United again, made them look like Brazil. Their worst teams ever and we've took one point from twelve against them. Bottlers.
I'll be happier in a week or two but all if feel is disappointment right now.
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I'm going to adopt a policy from now on: whenever we play a team who go three at the back with wing backs, I'm going to bet shitloads of cash on em.
Easy money, cos Emery's tactics are absolutely worthless against that setup.
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Turns out GD is worth a point after all.
Well, no. Because if we had got one more point we would have finished fifth.
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More angry at the performance than the ref.
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Hopefully MC get fucked and the next team down takes their place.
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Mentality- Unai said it - when the big games come along we struggle
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I'm pleased we got Europa football instead of Conference. We played really poorly today and sad to say, choked. That said, I'd have taken 6th at the start of the season and happy to do so now. I do hope a few of these players have stretched the Villa shirt for the last time.
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Disappointed with how we played and the referee. But we have two routes into the Champions League next season, and being in the Europa League with a manager that always wins the Europa League might not be the worst thing in the world.
Good point, but it’s hurting bad after that.
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Cash
Shocking last game.
Emi, what a twat, hjoland probably would have missed anyway.
Very poor performance generally.
That Ref…… WTF.
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Absolutely disgraceful performance. Got exactly what we deserved despite the appalling ref performance. Fuck it all.
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That last minute goal at Man City....
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Mentality- Unai said it - when the big games come along we struggle
Palace will turn us over again in the Europa League.
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Just fuck off, Villa. Emi - hope we get some decent money, you temperamental twat.
A rush of blood to the head….for both you and Emi
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Disappointed with how we played and the referee. But we have two routes into the Champions League next season, and being in the Europa League with a manager that always wins the Europa League might not be the worst thing in the world.
Good point, but it’s hurting bad after that.
The nearly men.
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Consistent bottlers. Having to go to old shithole and get a win on the last game of the season was never going to happen.
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Disappointed that once again we didn't turn up against Man Utd.
They seem to be our kryptonite for some reason
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Another big game choked.
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Cash Shocking last game.
Emi, what a twat, hjoland probably would have missed anyway.
Very poor performance generally.
That Ref…… WTF.
Agree, shocking pass.
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Hopefully it genuinely hurts ( like it does for us ) for them and they come back fighting again for the top 4/5 and winning that Europa league...hopefully.
Half them will be onto their agents looking to wash their hands of us.
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Looking forward to what Unai says and also Emi.
If I was Unai I'd keep my mouth shut, that was pathetic. We absolutely bottled it, again.
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The decision by the ref aside we were absolutely dreadful whenever it really matters we don't turn up.
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Only ourselves to blame. Just vanish in the big games that matter. Absolutely should be fuming but this is what villa does best. Best chance this year to win silverware and denied. Best chance to return to CL football against a gash manure side and we make them look like fucking Brazil. Glad season is over and next season need to work on consistency and sorting defence as GD was so bad it cost us.
Wasn’t the ref that fucked us today but ourselves.
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God, the Nose rellies are starting to text me now. Wish me luck, everyone!
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Disappointed with how we played and the referee. But we have two routes into the Champions League next season, and being in the Europa League with a manager that always wins the Europa League might not be the worst thing in the world.
Good point, but it’s hurting bad after that.
The nearly men.
We should get that on the badge. We haven't had a badge change for ages.
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Bottom line is we got outplayed by the worst Man Yew team in a generation and blew the chance for Champs League. We can prosecute a shit referees decision until the cows come home if you look at that game we’re lucky to get away with a 2-0 defeat. Deffo red card, deffo penalty, Rogers “goal” should have stood but other than that we were absolute bobbins. Ah well, Europa League here we come.
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That last minute goal at Man City....
And draws at home to Ipswich, Brighton, Bournemouth....
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Just fuck off, Villa. Emi - hope we get some decent money, you temperamental twat.
A rush of blood to the head….for both you and Emi
Oh thanks for that! What did you think was going to happen when Emi did what he did?
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Turns out GD is worth a point after all.
Well, no. Because if we had got one more point we would have finished fifth.
So worth a point then as we needed 1 more point than the side with a superior GD.
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We didn’t turn up today and so, like the Palace game I wouldn’t have a complaint about the result, but I can’t believe that twat of a referee doesn’t wait before blowing his whistle. We take the lead then I don’t believe we lose the game.
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More angry at the performance than the ref.
Fine, be angry at how we played, we were shit, but please don't let that blind us from the fact that it was one of the worst decisions by any ref since VAR came in. No one can know how the game would play out if he'd kept his whistle out of his mouth for another second but we can say, with absolute certainty that we should be finishing that game with a goal in our for column.
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Trying to think of the game where Mings was interviewed after, when he said something like “when things are going wrong, you need someone on the pitch to change things”. The interviewer said “who would that be?” and he said “me”.
Our only true leader, not picked for a big game again.
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Disappointed with how we played and the referee. But we have two routes into the Champions League next season, and being in the Europa League with a manager that always wins the Europa League might not be the worst thing in the world.
Good point, but it’s hurting bad after that.
Let’s hope so..
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Consistent bottlers. Having to go to old shithole and get a win on the last game of the season was never going to happen.
Didn't even need to win, as it turned out.
And still came up short.
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We still have Europa league guys i am going to keep thinking about that
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It’s gutting. I hate VAR and would get rid of it entirely. It isn’t doing what it was supposed to do - removing the “howler”.
Good season all round though. We just had too much to do. I am really looking forward to seeing what happens over the sunmer
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It’s a massive ****** trick. ****** off TNT, ****** off Joe fucking Cole, ****** off Man Utd, and ****** off Martínez you absolute moron. And that absolute ****** referee…. ****** off.
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We still have Europa league guys i am going to keep thinking about that
Back in Feb that looked remote
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Looking forward to what Unai says and also Emi.
If I was Unai I'd keep my mouth shut, that was pathetic. We absolutely bottled it, again.
Yep. Just haven't turned up when the pressure is truly on. This team will be broken up now and we'll have to build from the bottom-up again.
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Trying to think of the game where Mings was interviewed after, when he said something like “when things are going wrong, you need someone on the pitch to change things”. The interviewer said “who would that be?” and he said “me”.
Our only true leader, not picked for a big game again.
Yep.
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I want Emery to come out swinging.
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Turns out GD is worth a point after all.
Well, no. Because if we had got one more point we would have finished fifth.
So worth a point then as we needed 1 more point than the side with a superior GD.
Not sure why your first thought after a typically irritating loss is "I'll try to wind someone up", but I'll leave you to it.
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I don't look forward to loosing Digne
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Trying to think of the game where Mings was interviewed after, when he said something like “when things are going wrong, you need someone on the pitch to change things”. The interviewer said “who would that be?” and he said “me”.
Our only true leader, not picked for a big game again.
So true. Cash was making mistake after mistake after mistake. Mings should have come on before the second goal.
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Just fuck off, Villa. Emi - hope we get some decent money, you temperamental twat.
A rush of blood to the head….for both you and Emi
Oh thanks for that! What did you think was going to happen when Emi did what he did?
You’re right Jane
He races out of his goal with no chance of getting there first. Should have stood his ground and had a 1 to 1 with Hojilund who probably wouldn’t have scored
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Only two points and a win off of last seasons tally but boy am I annoyed tonight, it feels like a disappointing season even though I'd have been pleased with the Europa back on Boxing Day. Bottled it at United again, made them look like Brazil. Their worst teams ever and we've took one point from twelve against them. Bottlers.
I'll be happier in a week or two but all if feel is disappointment right now.
Should have put 4 in 18 under Emery against them. I have to admit, that first win where he stated he tailors the side to play in the gaps the other side leaves is a long time ago when he chose that same team again this week. It works more at home but think differently away when pace is need if you want to be counter-attacking.
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I'm stood in a pub in Leicestershire absolutely fucking raging. That ref needs sticking in the Championship for the next 20 years and the PGMOL can make up the difference between Champions League and Europa League. Just don't blow you fucking mug.
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What's really annoying is they conned us into thinking we'd do it. We were well off the pace 10-11 games ago and the run we were on had us all thinking we were gonna do it. And then along comes our old friend Manchester United. It was like Villa at Old Trafford bingo.
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More angry at the performance than the ref.
Yes, we were absolutely awful today and there were some genuinely shocking performances mixed with some idiotic decision making.
But ... the referee has made a decision there that has probably cost us. By blowing his whistle before Rogers put the ball in the net he negated the VAR intervention that surely would have resulted in the goal standing. As poor as we were, I don't think we lose that if we go 1-0 up at that point.
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Fuck off football forever*
*until August
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I want Emery to come out swinging.
I wish he did that before kick off was shite tactics and lack of mettel that cost us before half time
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Turns out GD is worth a point after all.
Well, no. Because if we had got one more point we would have finished fifth.
So worth a point then as we needed 1 more point than the side with a superior GD.
Not sure why your first thought after a typically irritating loss is "I'll try to wind someone up", but I'll leave you to it.
I think he was just proving a point that our ridiculous low goal difference cost us? 🤷♀️
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If there's a player in their team you'd fancy tu fuck up in that scenario it's Hoijlund. Instead Emi goes full Emi, and you never want to go full Emi.
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Trying to think of the game where Mings was interviewed after, when he said something like “when things are going wrong, you need someone on the pitch to change things”. The interviewer said “who would that be?” and he said “me”.
Our only true leader, not picked for a big game again.
Indeed.
Pau wasn't totally shocking today (no more than the rest of the numpties around him, anyroad). Yes, he tried to pirouette in his own penalty area and presented them with a gift wrapped opportunity. But that's priced into the Pau selection now. Emery can't be that bothered. As he keeps on doing it.
But in your big games you need your best players. And Pau been some way off that for a while.
As per Palace, most of us looked at that line up and were a tad worried. Even against a Yanited side as dire as this one.
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It was defiantely a goal, it was never a penalty but we were absolutely awful.
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Turns out GD is worth a point after all.
Well, no. Because if we had got one more point we would have finished fifth.
So worth a point then as we needed 1 more point than the side with a superior GD.
Not sure why your first thought after a typically irritating loss is "I'll try to wind someone up", but I'll leave you to it.
If our gd was better than Newcastle we finish 5th: ergo it's worth a point.
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With Villa, you tend to know how the game is going to pan out within a few minutes. You can sense the mood, approach and mentality.
Within 3 mins today, you could see we were shit scared.
We gave them 5 yards all over the pitch.
There was no closing down whatsoever, we stood off and stood off.
That allowed Man U to build up a head of steam and start stroking the ball around with ease and confidence.
Did DID shit the bed, again.
We were frightened to death by the occasional, by the magnitude of what was at stake.
Emery talks about mentality. It starts with him, and on 3 massive occasions, we have royally bottled it.
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We did look very passive most of first half. I guess the plan was to go for it second half, without the red we would have every chance to get something out of it even one down at halftime. No way we where going to get something second half down to ten and Olsen in goal.
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More angry at the performance than the ref.
Yes, we were absolutely awful today and there were some genuinely shocking performances mixed with some idiotic decision making.
But ... the referee has made a decision there that has probably cost us. By blowing his whistle before Rogers put the ball in the net he negated the VAR intervention that surely would have resulted in the goal standing. As poor as we were, I don't think we lose that if we go 1-0 up at that point.
Exactly, and I can't work out why so many on here are willing to ignore just how bad a decision it is so they can instead blame Emery and the team. We were shit on the day, no one denies that, but plenty of teams have played shit and won a game with a goal against the run of play and that's what should've happened today.
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Oh what a night.......watching Villa on a Thursday night....come on Villa win the Europa next season pretty please......oh yeah and the FA Cup.
The good times will keep coming for now......well cheaper Euro tickets at least
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Terrible ref, but pretty much matched but the utter embarrassment we put out. A shocking performance.
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I want Emery to come out swinging.
I wish he did that before kick off was shite tactics and lack of mettel that cost us before half time
Yep.
We didn’t deserve anything in this game regardless of the referee’s total fuck up. We shouldn’t be sulking as we didn’t turn up. I’m pissed off with the line up more than anything as it takes a tremendous effort to play worse than the worst ManU team in 20 odd years. We somehow managed it. Wankers!
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Just fuck off, Villa. Emi - hope we get some decent money, you temperamental twat.
A rush of blood to the head….for both you and Emi
Oh thanks for that! What did you think was going to happen when Emi did what he did?
You’re right Jane
He races out of his goal with no chance of getting there first. Should have stood his ground and had a 1 to 1 with Hojilund who probably wouldn’t have scored
It's really not that hard, is it?
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Pathetic performance
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Turns out GD is worth a point after all.
Well, no. Because if we had got one more point we would have finished fifth.
So worth a point then as we needed 1 more point than the side with a superior GD.
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove, but it's a bit bloody weird.
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Is there any sort of man city points deduction we can pray for?
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Turns out GD is worth a point after all.
Well, no. Because if we had got one more point we would have finished fifth.
So worth a point then as we needed 1 more point than the side with a superior GD.
Not sure why your first thought after a typically irritating loss is "I'll try to wind someone up", but I'll leave you to it.
If our gd was better than Newcastle we finish 5th: ergo it's worth a point.
If we had got one more point, who would have finished higher, Villa or Newcastle? Villa. By a point. Because goal difference isn't worth a point. It is worth an indeterminate number between 1/infinity and 1-(1/infinity). But not a point.
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It was still 0-0 when Rogers' goal was VARd off, and WE WERE STILL IN EUROPE.
But we then buggered it up by conceding to a back post header. That's on us, NOT the clown in black. We were 100% to blame.
We've shown on several
occasions this season that we can't manage games out.
And it's cost us dearly today.
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Gd did cost us. But us being shit cost us more. Meant nothing given the massive gd Newcastle had anyway.
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We can blame whoever we want today but the season’s over 38 games and what did us in the end was our goal difference.
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That last minute goal at Man City....
👍
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I've just said to a mate that I can't tell anymore whether Premier League refereeing is corruption masquerading as incompetence or vice versa.
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Turns out GD is worth a point after all.
Well, no. Because if we had got one more point we would have finished fifth.
So worth a point then as we needed 1 more point than the side with a superior GD.
Not sure why your first thought after a typically irritating loss is "I'll try to wind someone up", but I'll leave you to it.
If our gd was better than Newcastle we finish 5th: ergo it's worth a point.
If we had got one more point, who would have finished higher, Villa or Newcastle? Villa. By a point. Because goal difference isn't worth a point. It is worth an indeterminate number between 1/infinity and 1-(1/infinity). But not a point.
Semantic nonsense.
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Very dispiriting. The performance was worse than the FA Cup semi, against a worse team.
To cap it all, some of our fans around us were appalling all game.
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Is there any sort of man city points deduction we can pray for?
Well the verdict is due any day. Whether the punishment will be retrospective or not, who knows. It should be.
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Just fuck off, Villa. Emi - hope we get some decent money, you temperamental twat.
A rush of blood to the head….for both you and Emi
Oh thanks for that! What did you think was going to happen when Emi did what he did?
In hindsight he should have pulled out of the challenge but it’s a split second decision, I’d still rather have him in nets than anyone else next season.
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I have never been this angry after a game I am fucking fuming.
We shit the bed.
Cash fucks up
Emi loses his mind
We have a completely good goal disallowed
Then normal old Trafford takes over
I think most of all I am angry at that total non performance that’s the third time in the last month that when it matters we just wilt
Bent referees is nothing new so I guess we have to live with it
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Exactly, and I can't work out why so many on here are willing to ignore just how bad a decision it is so they can instead blame Emery and the team. We were shit on the day, no one denies that, but plenty of teams have played shit and won a game with a goal against the run of play and that's what should've happened today.
But then you are going into the sliding doors realm. Old Trafford going a goal down after that performance, might have broken them, or they might have ended the match 3-1 winners. Ultimately that decision shouldn't have had any bearing on the game if we didn't start so badly. But we did which lead to Martinez having to bail us out which lead to the rush of blood after and the sending off.
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Probably because we allowed the opposition to build confidence and to become emboldened. The they pressed the shit out of us and we made it easy for them. Cash gifted them the win because we invited them on for 40 mins and had no counter. Not won at home since December yet we roll over.
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Turns out GD is worth a point after all.
Well, no. Because if we had got one more point we would have finished fifth.
So worth a point then as we needed 1 more point than the side with a superior GD.
Not sure why your first thought after a typically irritating loss is "I'll try to wind someone up", but I'll leave you to it.
If our gd was better than Newcastle we finish 5th: ergo it's worth a point.
If we had got one more point, who would have finished higher, Villa or Newcastle? Villa. By a point. Because goal difference isn't worth a point. It is worth an indeterminate number between 1/infinity and 1-(1/infinity). But not a point.
Semantic nonsense.
Not really. Can you point me in the direction any league where a team finished with one more point than another team, but the league decided to place them lower because the other team had a better goal difference? No, because goal difference isn't worth a point, is it?
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It’s gutting. I hate VAR and would get rid of it entirely. It isn’t doing what it was supposed to do - removing the “howler”.
Good season all round though. We just had too much to do. I am really looking forward to seeing what happens over the sunmer
I agree it has added nothing to the game. It has sucked the joy and spontaneity out of 80% of all goals. There is still loads of unconscious bias in the refereeing, there is simply more time and opportunity to manufacture the outcome they want.
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Turns out GD is worth a point after all.
Well, no. Because if we had got one more point we would have finished fifth.
So worth a point then as we needed 1 more point than the side with a superior GD.
Not sure why your first thought after a typically irritating loss is "I'll try to wind someone up", but I'll leave you to it.
If our gd was better than Newcastle we finish 5th: ergo it's worth a point.
If we had got one more point, who would have finished higher, Villa or Newcastle? Villa. By a point. Because goal difference isn't worth a point. It is worth an indeterminate number between 1/infinity and 1-(1/infinity). But not a point.
Alan Turing in the house
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That last minute goal at Man City....
👍
Jacksons red card against Newcastle.
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Tonight isn’t a night for smarmy know it all ****** or “well DUH” comments. We’ve missed out here, YET AGAIN
Against these ******, because of a referee who has failed.
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So disappointing, but ultimately so utterly predictable.
They say that the final table doesn't lie and whilst today's no-show is so frustrating, we can look at games across the whole season where we dropped points that would have made the annual Old Trafford capitulation irrelevant.
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That last minute goal at Man City....
It was too many dropped points after CL matches. Drawing twice with Ipswich
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Tonight isn’t a night for smarmy know it all ****** or “well DUH” comments. We’ve missed out here, YET AGAIN
Against these ******, because of a referee who has failed.
We were lucky to still be in it by then
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Tonight isn’t a night for smarmy know it all ****** or “well DUH” comments. We’ve missed out here, YET AGAIN
Against these ******, because of a referee who has failed.
100% this - that ref should never be allowed to ref a professional game - that wasn’t either gross miscomptance or corruption. Either way unforgivable
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One narcissistic twat not doing his job properly is now probably the difference between our whole Summer plans.
More importantly though I don't know how one club can be so mentally against playing in Manchester, and how a brilliant manager is so useless up against a 3-4-3.
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It was still 0-0 when Rogers' goal was VARd off, and WE WERE STILL IN EUROPE.
But we then buggered it up by conceding to a back post header. That's on us, NOT the clown in black. We were 100% to blame.
We've shown on several
occasions this season that we can't manage games out.
And it's cost us dearly today.
Give your fucking head a wobble, we absolutely were not 100% to blame. We should've been 1-0 up, even if they still score a preventable goal it's only 1-1 at that point. that decision was a pivotal moment in both the game and the season and came from 1 guy forgetting how to do his job.
How poor we were up to that point, and how badly we did in the last 10minutes after it is irrelevant. As a club we should be putting in a massive complaint because there's a very real argument that he's just cost us £70m, that could mean selling 1-2 players we want to keep, it could mean lower income from related commercial deals, it could mean us missing out on transfer targets. All because the ref was too fucking thick to wait a second with the whistle.
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To borrow a phrase from PWS as his usual opening post on a post-match thread - "never in doubt". Of course we were going to fuck-up today - it's against that lot at Old Trafford!
The hand-wringing about the disallowed goal reminds me a bit of the 2010 League Cup final. Ref fucked up but get over it, play the fuck on and win, there's plenty of time left. Emery's body language was embarassing, he didn't even acknowledge the away fans that remained (very few of the players did either). We deserved fuck-all today and that's exactly what we got. Cheers to Chelsea for getting us Europa League as Conference would have been a shitty reward. Sad that we'll still have to probably someone else good as well as Emi.
There is an inconsistency in the rules where it seems that the only situations where play is allowed to continue is for the most obvious offsides in case there's been an error. The ref should have applied the same logic here. I guess kicking the ball out of a goalie's hands is not a common foul, he just assumed the worst but just like there was a rule change after we were done out of an offside decision at Man City a couple of years ago, I bet they'll tweak this to make sure refs let play go on before blowing for a foul. As it is, PGMOL can just hide behind the fact that the whistle had already been blown before Rogers scored.
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That didn't go as planned, but a decent season nonetheless.
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Manchester United have played one Saturday home game this season. Can probably make plans for just about every Saturday until August 2026.
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Just fuck off, Villa. Emi - hope we get some decent money, you temperamental twat.
A rush of blood to the head….for both you and Emi
Oh thanks for that! What did you think was going to happen when Emi did what he did?
In hindsight he should have pulled out of the challenge but it’s a split second decision, I’d still rather have him in nets than anyone else next season.
There was no challenge to make! He lost his head instead of running back to the goal.
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To borrow a phrase from PWS as his usual opening post on a post-match thread - "never in doubt". Of course we were going to fuck-up today - it's against that lot at Old Trafford!
The hand-wringing about the disallowed goal reminds me a bit of the 2010 League Cup final. Ref fucked up but get over it, play the fuck on and win, there's plenty of time left. Emery's body language was embarassing, he didn't even acknowledge the away fans that remained (very few of the players did either). We deserved fuck-all today and that's exactly what we got. Cheers to Chelsea for getting us Europa League as Conference would have been a shitty reward. Sad that we'll still have to probably someone else good as well as Emi.
There is an inconsistency in the rules where it seems that the only situations where play is allowed to continue is for the most obvious offsides in case there's been an error. The ref should have applied the same logic here. I guess kicking the ball out of a goalie's hands is not a common foul, he just assumed the worst but just like there was a rule change after we were done out of an offside decision at Man City a couple of years ago, I bet they'll tweak this to make sure refs let play go on before blowing for a foul. As it is, PGMOL can just hide behind the fact that the whistle had already been blown before Rogers scored.
Excellent post
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Is there any sort of man city points deduction we can pray for?
Or a Champions League ban.
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Goal should have stood but we were crap as we always are in the important games.
However we have got to the CL QF, the FA Cup semi-final at Wembley and got the Europa League next season so not too shabby.
I slated Emery earlier this season as I was so pissed off with some of his subs and players playing out of position etc but we have finished where we deserve.
Whatever we think of Emi, for me he had no choice and I hope he stays.
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Unai has to take some of the blame for quite a few games this season.
Our points accrual when Mings plays is far higher than our average- Thats not a coincidence.
Malen always creates and often scores when he comes on- but he comes on very late
We’ve needed the right back situation addressing for over two years. I thought Garcia was doing fine but suddenly was not in favour.
We always play quicker , faster football when Ramsey plays- that’s what we needed from the start today.
If we can address these issues and get a natural goalscorer I can see us being very good next season.
One thing they will all learn is that points dropped early on or in the middle of the season will cost you later.
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Linesmen/women are told to keep their flag down to see how a move develops but that complete twat of a referee makes a decision from half a pitch away when VAR could have looked at it and confirmed no foul had been committed. To cap it all, the players shake the pricks hand at the end. That said, we were pretty shit weren't we.
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Barkley made more of an impact in 15 mins than most of the team did during 70 odd minutes. He gave us the drive we should have started the game with.
From the first minute to the last we were simply, not good enough. Technically, tactically and managing the game in a pressurized environment for ourselves. Unfortunately, as good as we’ve been, I don’t believe our current squad can take us any further. Someone posted recently that the motto should be changed from ‘prepared’ to ‘on the cusp’ and that’s probably fair. If we want to kick on, we need players with a different mentality to what we have.
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I want Emery to come out swinging.
Punching himself in the head?
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I'm pleased we got Europa football instead of Conference. We played really poorly today and sad to say, choked. That said, I'd have taken 6th at the start of the season and happy to do so now. I do hope a few of these players have stretched the Villa shirt for the last time.
Agree 100%. We decided to play in the last 10 mins and created a few chances. Malen has to play a much bigger role next year, he's far more dynamic than Watkins who looks to me as if he's looking elsewhere next season.
I couldn't believe how utterly shit we were for the first 20 mins and that comes from no bottle and lack of nerve, its not on the manager. There's at least three out there who I hope depart in summer.
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I want Emery to come out swinging.
They just showed him following the ref down the tunnel and going mental at him.
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At least the season ticket email tomorrow should show a lower amount than planned ?
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In August we probably would have settled for getting into the Europa League but we have been so good at stages this season we have developed expectations rather than hopes.
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That decision was a farce. Another in a long line of appalling decisions throughout the league this season.
Saying that, we’ve ended up where we have because defensively we’ve been weak. A bit better lately but mistakes like Cash made today are always underneath the surface waiting to come out.
The players have given their all but for some, the pressure just gets to them. We’ve come a long, long way in a few years and what hurt me the most was that Wembley performance.
Now is the time to freshen things up a bit and if Spurs can win the Europa then surely we have a chance.
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Very difficult to divorce what has been a very decent season from today’s shit show but maybe I’ll manage it in a few weeks. Onwards.
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At least the season ticket email tomorrow should show a lower amount than planned ?
That will be interesting!
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However poor we were today, the bottom line is that we didn’t qualify for the Champions League and the Jaudis did because of a corrupt refereeing decision.
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We won 13 of the last 17 in all comps which is phenomenal. What cost us was the 3 month spell where the defence was battered by injuries. Draws at home to Ipswich, Brighton, West Ham, even defeat at Wolves.
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A very weak ref who couldn't wait to blow up . No doubt that clueless twat will referee in the premiership next season. Can you imagine if that decision went against one of the Sky teams with the outcome riding on it . Shit performance by the team and manager. I know I'm probably in the minority , but the sending off was Cash's fault. Martinez hasn't got the benefit of slow motions and re-runs to tell him Hojlund was running towards the corner flag in that spilt second ( even if he's Blues !) . Painful to miss out .We have still qualified for Europe in a cup Unai loves winning.
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Not sure what Digne has done to be dropped in recent weeks. Maatsen has more pace and threat going forward but he is half-brainless in defence. Needless foul for the penalty, ball-watching for the first goal against the one player he could potentially dominate in the air given they both look 12 (him and Diallo) and he also tried to head the ball back to Olsen from the halfway circle when it wasn't on and got away with it.
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Is there any sort of man city points deduction we can pray for?
I was going to say that decision will now be announced speedily now the season has ended!
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Trying to think of the game where Mings was interviewed after, when he said something like “when things are going wrong, you need someone on the pitch to change things”. The interviewer said “who would that be?” and he said “me”.
Our only true leader, not picked for a big game again.
I would say that your long-held position on this question has been vindicated.
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Disappointed with how we played and the referee. But we have two routes into the Champions League next season, and being in the Europa League with a manager that always wins the Europa League might not be the worst thing in the world.
Good point, but it’s hurting bad after that.
The nearly men.
We should get that on the badge. We haven't had a badge change for ages.
"It's who we are, mate". Spursy ain't a thing no more. It's Villainous Villainy.
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We were awful today, I didn't expect such a drab performance before the match in fact I thought we would dominate the ball.
Missed Digne at the back and that decision by the ref to blow up was a sickener.
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We’ve been serial bottlers for as long as I’ve supported us with very few exceptions in between. I love and hate this club in equal measure.
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Two draws against fucking Ipswich cost us. Win either of those games and this afternoons shit show would have been irrelevant.
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To borrow a phrase from PWS as his usual opening post on a post-match thread - "never in doubt". Of course we were going to fuck-up today - it's against that lot at Old Trafford!
The hand-wringing about the disallowed goal reminds me a bit of the 2010 League Cup final. Ref fucked up but get over it, play the fuck on and win, there's plenty of time left. Emery's body language was embarassing, he didn't even acknowledge the away fans that remained (very few of the players did either). We deserved fuck-all today and that's exactly what we got. Cheers to Chelsea for getting us Europa League as Conference would have been a shitty reward. Sad that we'll still have to probably someone else good as well as Emi.
There is an inconsistency in the rules where it seems that the only situations where play is allowed to continue is for the most obvious offsides in case there's been an error. The ref should have applied the same logic here. I guess kicking the ball out of a goalie's hands is not a common foul, he just assumed the worst but just like there was a rule change after we were done out of an offside decision at Man City a couple of years ago, I bet they'll tweak this to make sure refs let play go on before blowing for a foul. As it is, PGMOL can just hide behind the fact that the whistle had already been blown before Rogers scored.
Yep, as you say it's a very rare occurrence, but the instruction that will follow will probably be to let play continue if there is a clear chance of a goal. He blows a couple of seconds later and it's a goal.
The penalty was a bit of a strange one as well. There seemed to be a bit of delay before he pointed a bit unconvincingly to the spot. Wonder how he reached that decision as it didn't look like he'd seen it initially.
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Tactics wrong from the start just like against palace. Played as underdogs when we weren't.
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Premier League Match Centre
@PLMatchCentre
#MUNAVL – 72’
The referee’s call was a free kick to Manchester United with Bayindir deemed to be in control of the ball before Rogers gained possession. The whistle was blown by the referee before the ball entered the goal, therefore the incident was not reviewable by the VAR.
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Gutted. Will not be the same on Tuesday/Wednesday nights.
All week I have been telling whoever asked that if we win we'll be in CL but when it mattered we didn't and all we had to do was draw.
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Back to fucking Thursday and Sunday games.
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Premier League Match Centre
@PLMatchCentre
#MUNAVL – 72’
The referee’s call was a free kick to Manchester United with Bayindir deemed to be in control of the ball before Rogers gained possession. The whistle was blown by the referee before the ball entered the goal, therefore the incident was not reviewable by the VAR.
Not even bothering with saying that it actually wasn't a foul. Total piss takers.
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Not sure what Digne has done to be dropped in recent weeks. Maatsen has more pace and threat going forward but he is half-brainless in defence. Needless foul for the penalty, ball-watching for the first goal against the one player he could potentially dominate in the air given they both look 12 (him and Diallo) and he also tried to head the ball back to Olsen from the halfway circle when it wasn't on and got away with it.
This seems to have been overlooked.
However good he is going forward he's always an accident waiting to happen defensively. Why rake your studs down that lad's ankle as he' moving away from the penalty area. Madness.
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Tactics wrong from the start just like against palace.
Yes, against another team playing 3 4 3 or 3 4 2 1
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I'm probably stupid but I don't understand the ref blowing whistle thing. Surely the whistle gets blown all the time and things get checked and altered by VAR?
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Gutted. Will not be the same on Tuesday/Wednesday nights.
All week I have been telling whoever asked that if we will we'll be in CL but when I mattered we didn't and all we had to do was draw.
And all week they’ve been going “Aftab’s been on the drink again!”
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Is there any sort of man city points deduction we can pray for?
I was going to say that decision will now be announced speedily now the season has ended!
No doubt that decision will once again be kicked into the long grass and they will spend another Gbp400mill in the summer market.
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It was defiantely a goal, it was never a penalty but we were absolutely awful.
For them? Maatsen caught yer man's leg, the thick fucker. Cleer penalty.
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They allow players to get injured by telling linos to wait to flag, but a ref blows immediately when if it did turn out to be a foul for a goal VAR could then rule it out.
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I'm probably stupid but I don't understand the ref blowing whistle thing. Surely the whistle gets blown all the time and things get checked and altered by VAR?
He blew before the goal. play is dead as soon as the whistle goes.
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Premier League Match Centre
@PLMatchCentre
#MUNAVL – 72’
The referee’s call was a free kick to Manchester United with Bayindir deemed to be in control of the ball before Rogers gained possession. The whistle was blown by the referee before the ball entered the goal, therefore the incident was not reviewable by the VAR.
Fuck this shit. I want blood
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I'm probably stupid but I don't understand the ref blowing whistle thing. Surely the whistle gets blown all the time and things get checked and altered by VAR?
He blew before the goal. play is dead as soon as the whistle goes.
Just like Palace away a few years back.
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I'm pleased we got Europa football instead of Conference. We played really poorly today and sad to say, choked. That said, I'd have taken 6th at the start of the season and happy to do so now. I do hope a few of these players have stretched the Villa shirt for the last time.
Agree 100%. We decided to play in the last 10 mins and created a few chances. Malen has to play a much bigger role next year, he's far more dynamic than Watkins who looks to me as if he's looking elsewhere next season.
I couldn't believe how utterly shit we were for the first 20 mins and that comes from no bottle and lack of nerve, its not on the manager. There's at least three out there who I hope depart in summer.
It's completely on the manager. As shit as Watkins was, even ignoring his shocking ball control, unable to make a simple pass, whose fucking idea was it to keep hoofing the ball up to him in the hope he'd win a header against Slabhead? Here's a thought, play it on the ground and give him something to chase, it's his main talent, why not play to his limited strengths. Whisper it but it does work.
Having him and Rogers on the pitch was like playing with 9 men and that was before we lost Emi. Was Unai unaware Amorim plays 3 at the back because it certainly looked like it. My guess is recently Unai has been over thinking tactics and got himself in a big fucking muddle.
EDIT: Pardon my French but that was a pathetic performance again when it most counted.
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Premier League Match Centre
@PLMatchCentre
#MUNAVL – 72’
The referee’s call was a free kick to Manchester United with Bayindir deemed to be in control of the ball before Rogers gained possession. The whistle was blown by the referee before the ball entered the goal, therefore the incident was not reviewable by the VAR.
Not even bothering with saying that it actually wasn't a foul. Total piss takers.
The only call that tosser should be getting is to tell him he's reffing in league2 next season.
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I'm probably stupid but I don't understand the ref blowing whistle thing. Surely the whistle gets blown all the time and things get checked and altered by VAR?
He blew before the goal. play is dead as soon as the whistle goes.
Just like Palace away a few years back.
And Man City at home when Coutinho scored. Dunno when, think Gerrard was in charge.
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I'm probably stupid but I don't understand the ref blowing whistle thing. Surely the whistle gets blown all the time and things get checked and altered by VAR?
He blew before the goal. play is dead as soon as the whistle goes.
Yeah - on the basis that players stop when the whistle goes so if it hadn't blown then someone might have been able to stop the goal. Although you can see the nearest Man U player pull up, I have no idea how it could have played out any differently without the whistle.
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Palace was different. VAR couldn't rule a goal out because of a dive. We know it wasn't a dive but that's a different thing.
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The hand-wringing about the disallowed goal reminds me a bit of the 2010 League Cup final. Ref fucked up but get over it, play the fuck on and win, there's plenty of time left. Emery's body language was embarassing, he didn't even acknowledge the away fans that remained (very few of the players did either). We deserved fuck-all today and that's exactly what we got.
Big mentality issues with this group of players. at 0-1 you've got about 15mins to score one goal as Everton were winning. Utd have two old bastards (Mcguire and Evans in defence) its still up for grabs!
but Villa lost their heads. Emery should have stopped arguing with the 4th official and get the message to the players.
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Not sure what Digne has done to be dropped in recent weeks. Maatsen has more pace and threat going forward but he is half-brainless in defence. Needless foul for the penalty, ball-watching for the first goal against the one player he could potentially dominate in the air given they both look 12 (him and Diallo) and he also tried to head the ball back to Olsen from the halfway circle when it wasn't on and got away with it.
This seems to have been overlooked.
However good he is going forward he's always an accident waiting to happen defensively. Why rake your studs down that lad's ankle as he' moving away from the penalty area. Madness.
Or to remove the hyperbole "why try to put your foot on the floor as you're running and the guy dangles his foot in your way hoping for contact".
To be clear, that sort of contact is exactly what the FA were saying wasn't a foul when they did the whole 'higher bar' for contact thing that was supposed to have come in this season. At best it was a 50/50 decision and, given the ref knows he'd alrady fucked us over, you'd normally expect a bit of common sense to not give it. Lets be clear, the ref didn't give the penalty at first, the linesman didn't flag and nothing came up to suggest a VAR review, then after a few seconds (i.e. waiting to give himself time to think, not something he did earlier) he gave it, seemingly because Diallo was dying on the floor.
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Such is my disappointment with our utter bottle jobs that I am now having to resort to watching the Indy 500 to take my mind off it.
But spoiler alert: we won't win the Europa next season. We'll bottle a big game, like a semi vs Nicosia or some crap.
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Premier League Match Centre
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#MUNAVL – 72’
The referee’s call was a free kick to Manchester United with Bayindir deemed to be in control of the ball before Rogers gained possession. The whistle was blown by the referee before the ball entered the goal, therefore the incident was not reviewable by the VAR.
I mean, these are rules which no one knows about until all of a sudden they apply. This is PGMOL working rules into a very simple virtual assistant referee system which they have mismanaged from the start.
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Exactly, and I can't work out why so many on here are willing to ignore just how bad a decision it is so they can instead blame Emery and the team. We were shit on the day, no one denies that, but plenty of teams have played shit and won a game with a goal against the run of play and that's what should've happened today.
It's "led" not "lead". Sorry, it's not personal but no one gets the past-participle of "lead" correct anymore and it gets on my goat - not as much as Villa fcuking-up today but Bad English ain't around anymore and Legion let's such things slide so someone's gotta point it out.
But then you are going into the sliding doors realm. Old Trafford going a goal down after that performance, might have broken them, or they might have ended the match 3-1 winners. Ultimately that decision shouldn't have had any bearing on the game if we didn't start so badly. But we did which lead to Martinez having to bail us out which lead to the rush of blood after and the sending off.
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Absolutely gutted with the result, the wrongly disallowed goal, going down to 10 men and our abysmal performance. If the goal was allowed to stand, we'll never know if we would have gone to avoid defeat.
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If we qualified for the EL by playing our way into it as an aim, then this would feel great.
However, it’s like we have fallen into it, and it feels very flat and disappointing right now.
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Premier League Match Centre
@PLMatchCentre
#MUNAVL – 72’
The referee’s call was a free kick to Manchester United with Bayindir deemed to be in control of the ball before Rogers gained possession. The whistle was blown by the referee before the ball entered the goal, therefore the incident was not reviewable by the VAR.
I mean, these are rules which no one knows about until all of a sudden they apply. This is PGMOL working rules into a very simple virtual assistant referee system which they have mismanaged from the start.
I'd sue the fuckers for £80m+ for lost revenue.
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I'm probably stupid but I don't understand the ref blowing whistle thing. Surely the whistle gets blown all the time and things get checked and altered by VAR?
He blew before the goal. play is dead as soon as the whistle goes.
It doesn't make sense to me, nothing VARy does. Ref blew instantly, because he's a dickhead at Old Trafford so there's no recourse. Everything else can be VARed to fuck for minutes on end but a simple check such as did the keeper have it, no , goal, that can't be done.
Doesn't make sense. Games gone Tom.
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
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Not sure what Digne has done to be dropped in recent weeks. Maatsen has more pace and threat going forward but he is half-brainless in defence. Needless foul for the penalty, ball-watching for the first goal against the one player he could potentially dominate in the air given they both look 12 (him and Diallo) and he also tried to head the ball back to Olsen from the halfway circle when it wasn't on and got away with it.
This seems to have been overlooked.
However good he is going forward he's always an accident waiting to happen defensively. Why rake your studs down that lad's ankle as he' moving away from the penalty area. Madness.
Or to remove the hyperbole "why try to put your foot on the floor as you're running and the guy dangles his foot in your way hoping for contact".
To be clear, that sort of contact is exactly what the FA were saying wasn't a foul when they did the whole 'higher bar' for contact thing that was supposed to have come in this season. At best it was a 50/50 decision and, given the ref knows he'd alrady fucked us over, you'd normally expect a bit of common sense to not give it. Lets be clear, the ref didn't give the penalty at first, the linesman didn't flag and nothing came up to suggest a VAR review, then after a few seconds (i.e. waiting to give himself time to think, not something he did earlier) he gave it, seemingly because Diallo was dying on the floor.
A classic OT penalty as we have seen over many years. A weak as piss official giving a decision to please the baying mob.
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I'm probably stupid but I don't understand the ref blowing whistle thing. Surely the whistle gets blown all the time and things get checked and altered by VAR?
He blew before the goal. play is dead as soon as the whistle goes.
Yeah - on the basis that players stop when the whistle goes so if it hadn't blown then someone might have been able to stop the goal. Although you can see the nearest Man U player pull up, I have no idea how it could have played out any differently without the whistle.
The defender would never have got to the ball in time.
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John McGinn: "I don't think anyone in the dressing room or anyone watching the game felt we deserved to win. Manchester United deserved to win. They were the better team and were on front foot. But the decision [Rogers goal] is incredible." It's so hard to take, the impact on us as a club. For Thomas to blow his whistle at that point, it's tough to handle."
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Definitely a red card and a penalty unfortunately, the disallowed goal was an unforgivable mistake from the ref, who clearly couldn't be sure what had happened as he was a good distance from the incident and should never have blown. At the end of the day it's probably cost us north of £50M, means a couple will be off and denies a few of ever playing CL football again..not sure how that ref ever gets a game at VP again?
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Everything VAR takes ages over is something that happened while the ball is live. Ref blows, ball is dead.
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Very disa]pointing end to an exciting season. A slight niggle that whilst Emery system works in the majority of games in two key games this season opposition teams have found it relatively easy to set up in a way that stops it working completely. I hope these are blips rather than causes for concern.
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Premier League Match Centre
@PLMatchCentre
#MUNAVL – 72’
The referee’s call was a free kick to Manchester United with Bayindir deemed to be in control of the ball before Rogers gained possession. The whistle was blown by the referee before the ball entered the goal, therefore the incident was not reviewable by the VAR.
I mean, these are rules which no one knows about until all of a sudden they apply. This is PGMOL working rules into a very simple virtual assistant referee system which they have mismanaged from the start.
I'd sue the fuckers for £80m+ for lost revenue.
It was a shite performance from us but VAR really needs to be looked at. It cannot be down to PGMOL to elect what to look at, it needs to be down to the teams playing. One review per half.
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John McGinn: "I don't think anyone in the dressing room or anyone watching the game felt we deserved to win. Manchester United deserved to win. They were the better team and were on front foot. But the decision [Rogers goal] is incredible." It's so hard to take, the impact on us as a club. For Thomas to blow his whistle at that point, it's tough to handle."
That’s true, but the first bit - why? That’s the second huge game in recent times where we’ve been completely outplayed. That’s not good enough.
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It was a definite penalty. I like how the referee gave himself time to think before awarding it, this shows to me that he has what it takes to be a top referee at this level.
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I'm pleased we got Europa football instead of Conference. We played really poorly today and sad to say, choked. That said, I'd have taken 6th at the start of the season and happy to do so now. I do hope a few of these players have stretched the Villa shirt for the last time.
Agree 100%. We decided to play in the last 10 mins and created a few chances. Malen has to play a much bigger role next year, he's far more dynamic than Watkins who looks to me as if he's looking elsewhere next season.
I couldn't believe how utterly shit we were for the first 20 mins and that comes from no bottle and lack of nerve, its not on the manager. There's at least three out there who I hope depart in summer.
I might be in the minority but Watkins over Malen every day of the week. His one chance to do something when he came on was to set Watkins away on the counter-attack but he totally overplayed his pass. I'm yet to be convinced of his football intelligence or his contributions off the ball. He was on the fringes of a Dortmund team in freefall. He's effectively a swap for Philogene and he's already done more than Jaden but if he's a regular starter next season, I can't see us challenging for top four.
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Absolutely gutted with the result, the wrongly disallowed goal, going down to 10 men and our abysmal performance. If the goal was allowed to stand, we'll never know if we would have gone to avoid defeat.
No the only thing we can know for sure is that we had a 100% legitimate goal chalked off because of incompetence. Nothing else matters and trying to justify it as "maybe they'd have worked harder and won 3-1 instead" or that we should account for a decision like that is just some weird coping bullshit. The ref has fucked up and cost us but some people would rather bitch and moan at Maatsen, Emery, Martinez, etc and I have no fucking idea why.
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All comes back to useless Refs I guess. That's why we have th abomination of VAR in the first place.
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Quote fail.
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Played like a bunch of showroom dummies, today; absolutely no craft to make it work.
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I’m not sure rather - it’s both, ref fucked up with a terrible mistake. But we were also diabolically bad. We should have been 1-0 in front, and we might have won, but we also might have lost given how we’d played.
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Two draws against fucking Ipswich cost us. Win either of those games and this afternoons shit show would have been irrelevant.
That's it for me. I have been saying for some weeks now, that I thought we would finish 6th and the most decisive results for me were taking only 2 points from a terrible Ipswich team. I think only us & Spuds have failed to beat Ipswich this season.
That has cost us big time.
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So should the FA clarify that a ref shouldn't blow his whistle until after a passage of play is over, so VAR can review if needs be?
The so-called Rogers Rule?
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John McGinn: "I don't think anyone in the dressing room or anyone watching the game felt we deserved to win. Manchester United deserved to win. They were the better team and were on front foot. But the decision [Rogers goal] is incredible." It's so hard to take, the impact on us as a club. For Thomas to blow his whistle at that point, it's tough to handle."
That’s true, but the first bit - why? That’s the second huge game in recent times where we’ve been completely outplayed. That’s not good enough.
Agreed, comment on why we shit the bed, again, please Ginny.
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That last minute goal at Man City....
and bournemth.. should have walked it really.
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If you want to boil the season down to a single moment that 94th minute winner at Maine Road did us
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
VAR then.
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Two draws against fucking Ipswich cost us. Win either of those games and this afternoons shit show would have been irrelevant.
That's it for me. I have been saying for some weeks now, that I thought we would finish 6th and the most decisive results for me were taking only 2 points from a terrible Ipswich team. I think only us & Spuds have failed to beat Ipswich this season.
That has cost us big time.
Chelsea took 1 point from Ipswich.
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Premier League Match Centre
@PLMatchCentre
#MUNAVL – 72’
The referee’s call was a free kick to Manchester United with Bayindir deemed to be in control of the ball before Rogers gained possession. The whistle was blown by the referee before the ball entered the goal, therefore the incident was not reviewable by the VAR.
I mean, these are rules which no one knows about until all of a sudden they apply. This is PGMOL working rules into a very simple virtual assistant referee system which they have mismanaged from the start.
I'd sue the fuckers for £80m+ for lost revenue.
Fucking damn right.
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Surpassed even the surrender at Wembley. Impossible to describe how bad we were. Somehow we were still in the game until the ref rode us. Joe Cole calling it right here, we didn't show up. Against the worst Man United team in living memory. A striker at 50% level of Rooney/Van Persie gets a hat trick, Hojlund was arguably our best player. Right from the first minute we had stage fright. At least Palace has liked of Eze, this United team had basically nobody.
Unfathomable decision not to start Mings given what was at stake. But Cash and then Martinez made a collosal fuck up before half time. Emery sat on his hands far too long with subs, though Ramsey made no impact, could have helped Maatsen for the first. Emerys faith in his two big summer signings was unfortunately badly misplaced. That's the last we should see of Onana, complete fraud. Watkins and Rogers were pathetic
Martinez 0 - I think his starting position is wrong, when Cash checks back he should be much higher up. But he just lost it then, for such an experienced player it just beggared belief.
Cash 4 - terrible pass obviously. Tried hard in second half to make up for it in fairness, won a good few tackles. Looked our most likely to score which says a lot
Konsa 5 - the only one of our back 5 not to make a crazy error on the day. But a leader, no chance.
Torres 3 - rubbish. Caught in possession at start of second half that should have been punished. Distribution poor and chocolate teapot presence wise.
Maatsen 0 - Second half from hell, surpassing Konsa at Ipswich as worst individual performance of the season. At fault for both goals. That foul for penalty was embarrassing with ball going towards corner flag. His head was gone early in second half and Emery should have recognised it and brought Digne in.
Rogers 2 - zero support for Cash defensively and just offered zilch with it either. Attitude a bit suspect. Fatigue obviously an issue in a great season but Emery far too loyal to him.
Onana 1 - the absolute end for me and the first man out the door this summer. Couldn't trap a bag of sand, whinging when he was eventually taken off was laughable. 50m!!
Kamara 4 - not good enough again in a big game. Picked it up a bit in second half with Cash on that side. Seemed flat
McGinn 3 - game passed our captain by. For once I couldn't complain with him being hooked early.
Asensio - unfortunate really, one of the few to get a pass early on and then had to come off after Martinez moment of madness.
Watkins 3 - dreadful, his first half performance was just rotten from one of our most experienced players. That mahogany first touch in full display. Somehow made a mess of putting Ramsey through in second
Ramsey made little impact, Tielemans was decent enough. Olsen made one great save but Martinez at his best probably puts Anand into A&E for the first. Barkley and Malen didnt get enough time.
Emery - sadly a repeat of the Palace big freeze. 66 point season still a fine achievement but we blew it spectacularly today. Can't fathom leaving Mings out today or at Wembley. Rogers on right again... predictably didn't work. Two managerial blindspots there. Had a right to expect more of his two big signings, Maatsen and Onana, who flopped massively today. Too slow to make changes, like his players he just froze.
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Two draws against fucking Ipswich cost us. Win either of those games and this afternoons shit show would have been irrelevant.
That's it for me. I have been saying for some weeks now, that I thought we would finish 6th and the most decisive results for me were taking only 2 points from a terrible Ipswich team. I think only us & Spuds have failed to beat Ipswich this season.
That has cost us big time.
The 4 that cost us the most are these two, Bournemouth at home and Man City.
But, every club can list games of lost points.
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It all went wrong. The disallowed goal was not our fault but surely we can keep a clean sheet even with a player sent off. Get everyone behind the ball. Did Emery even know Newcastle were losing?
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It was a definite penalty. I like how the referee gave himself time to think before awarding it, this shows to me that he has what it takes to be a top referee at this level.
A pity the ref had made a career limiting decision earlier, by not giving giving himself time to think before awarding anything when we were attacking?
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1 up at Forest with 3 to play. Every team that falls short can point to multiple moments. That there's multiple moments is why they fall short.
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Man Utd have been average to crap for ages now. At what point does their psychological hold over referees wear off? Still giving them dodgy decisions as if Fergie is breathing down their necks.
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I think I totally agree with Brontebillys summary
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
VAR then.
But then the defending team will claim that when they heard the ref’s whistle they stopped playing
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A referee that no one’s ever heard of to referee a game of that magnitude is bordering on corruption.
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Surpassed even the surrender at Wembley. Impossible to describe how bad we were. Somehow we were still in the game until the ref rode us. Joe Cole calling it right here, we didn't show up. Against the worst Man United team in living memory. A striker at 50% level of Rooney/Van Persie gets a hat trick, Hojlund was arguably our best player. Right from the first minute we had stage fright. At least Palace has liked of Eze, this United team had basically nobody.
Unfathomable decision not to start Mings given what was at stake. But Cash and then Martinez made a collosal fuck up before half time. Emery sat on his hands far too long with subs, though Ramsey made no impact, could have helped Maatsen for the first. Emerys faith in his two big summer signings was unfortunately badly misplaced. That's the last we should see of Onana, complete fraud. Watkins and Rogers were pathetic
Martinez 0 - I think his starting position is wrong, when Cash checks back he should be much higher up. But he just lost it then, for such an experienced player it just beggared belief.
Cash 4 - terrible pass obviously. Tried hard in second half to make up for it in fairness, won a good few tackles. Looked our most likely to score which says a lot
Konsa 5 - the only one of our back 5 not to make a crazy error on the day. But a leader, no chance.
Torres 3 - rubbish. Caught in possession at start of second half that should have been punished. Distribution poor and chocolate teapot presence wise.
Maatsen 0 - Second half from hell, surpassing Konsa at Ipswich as worst individual performance of the season. At fault for both goals. That foul for penalty was embarrassing with ball going towards corner flag. His head was gone early in second half and Emery should have recognised it and brought Digne in.
Rogers 2 - zero support for Cash defensively and just offered zilch with it either. Attitude a bit suspect. Fatigue obviously an issue in a great season but Emery far too loyal to him.
Onana 1 - the absolute end for me and the first man out the door this summer. Couldn't trap a bag of sand, whinging when he was eventually taken off was laughable. 50m!!
Kamara 4 - not good enough again in a big game. Picked it up a bit in second half with Cash on that side. Seemed flat
McGinn 3 - game passed our captain by. For once I couldn't complain with him being hooked early.
Asensio - unfortunate really, one of the few to get a pass early on and then had to come off after Martinez moment of madness.
Watkins 3 - dreadful, his first half performance was just rotten from one of our most experienced players. That mahogany first touch in full display. Somehow made a mess of putting Ramsey through in second
Ramsey made little impact, Tielemans was decent enough. Olsen made one great save but Martinez at his best probably puts Anand into A&E for the first. Barkley and Malen didnt get enough time.
Emery - sadly a repeat of the Palace big freeze. 66 point season still a fine achievement but we blew it spectacularly today. Can't fathom leaving Mings out today or at Wembley. Rogers on right again... predictably didn't work. Two managerial blindspots there. Had a right to expect more of his two big signings, Maatsen and Onana, who flopped massively today. Too slow to make changes, like his players he just froze.
Might be a bit early on getting rid of Onana but I take the rest of the above points. Asensio off was a call I thought was strange at the time as he was performing decently and looked a threat in playing Watkins in with balls on the ground.
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Man Utd have been average to crap for ages now. At what point does their psychological hold over referees wear off?
More to the point, at what point does there psychological hold over us wear off?
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1 up at Forest with 3 to play. Every team that falls short can point to multiple moments. That there's multiple moments is why they fall short.
Bournemouth at home was particularly painful.
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Disappointed with how we played and the referee. But we have two routes into the Champions League next season, and being in the Europa League with a manager that always wins the Europa League might not be the worst thing in the world.
Sorry to say but, our manager who wins trophies everywhere he goes, doesn’t seem to be able to do the same for Villa.
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I still think it was wrong that Mings didn't play and Emery selected Torres instead. We rarely lose when Mings starts....
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A referee that no one’s ever heard of to referee a game of that magnitude is bordering on corruption.
I did wonder who the bloke was and why he was reffing this game. It’s not as though there was nothing riding on this game.
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Two draws against fucking Ipswich cost us. Win either of those games and this afternoons shit show would have been irrelevant.
That's it for me. I have been saying for some weeks now, that I thought we would finish 6th and the most decisive results for me were taking only 2 points from a terrible Ipswich team. I think only us & Spuds have failed to beat Ipswich this season.
That has cost us big time.
The 4 that cost us the most are these two, Bournemouth at home and Man City.
But, every club can list games of lost points.
losing 4 to ipswich
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Europa is easier to win these days as you don't have a bunch of CL sides dropping in halfway through. Doesn't mean we'll win it, we're Villa, but we have a good chance.
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Recency bias will inform a lot of fan's view of the season.
BUT in the league you end up where you deserve. Looking back - are these the games where we blew it:
2 draws against Ipswich.
Conceding a late equaliser against Bournemouth at home -
2 points dropped
Conceding a late winner at C115ty - 1 point dropped.
Being 0-1 at Forest and conceding in the 87th and 90+3 - 3 points dropped.
A period of calm reflection is needed.
That and the realisation that with Mings in defence, we were much more solid. Should he have come on today when we went down to 10 men.
Why can't Emery set us up against sides with a back 3?
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A referee that no one’s ever heard of to referee a game of that magnitude is bordering on corruption.
He's on the list. You're suggesting that he was paid to make a mistake, or someone else was paid to make him make a mistake.
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
Except VAR can go back, review and override decisions. We've even had decisions where a game has ended, only for a penalty to be reviewed and given after the final whistle.
I agree that the under the current rules then the correct process was followed, but after seeing that today you do have to question if that is the right process.
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Everything VAR takes ages over is something that happened while the ball is live. Ref blows, ball is dead.
Bloody annoying as no defender was getting anywhere near the ball anyway.
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There was no corruption. But he made a massive error in blowing so soon. The goal likely stands upon VAR review but it never came to that. Now of course given how fucking mince we were we would have likely conceded twice in injury time but the error was highly consequential and significant.
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
We've even had decisions where a game has ended, only for a penalty to be reviewed and given after the final whistle.
A decsion based on an incident while the ball was live.
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goal difference was the pain in the arse
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Two draws against fucking Ipswich cost us. Win either of those games and this afternoons shit show would have been irrelevant.
That's it for me. I have been saying for some weeks now, that I thought we would finish 6th and the most decisive results for me were taking only 2 points from a terrible Ipswich team. I think only us & Spuds have failed to beat Ipswich this season.
That has cost us big time.
The 4 that cost us the most are these two, Bournemouth at home and Man City.
But, every club can list games of lost points.
Yes I get all that, but Forest, Man City & B'mouth are all decent teams, Ipswich have been shit all year and one of the worst Premier League teams ever.
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We've had some horrible decisions v them over last 30 years. However I'm struggling to get worked out too much about it as our mindset was all wrong today.
They are on their knees as a club. Even after starting well today and putting in their best first half for many months there were no "United, United" chants from their fanbase so their fans were just waiting for them to get beaten so we should've reacted to that.
Instead we constantly lost all 50/50s and didn't want to risk anything so that leads to stuff like awful back passes from Cash.
I think half of this squad have reached the end of the line with us given the level we operate now. No issue with a few of them staying as experienced backups but Cash cost us big time and I think McGinn was horrible today. Offered nothing in attack and couldn't even track Mazaouri/Dalot properly which caused all sorts of issues down our left.
Writing on the wall a bit for Ramsey as he hasn't started any of PSG second leg, cup SF and final day crunch match.
Going to be an interesting summer you suspect. At least we have possible CL qualification from two separate routes as way we played today we did not even deserve Conference league.
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Absolutely gutted with the result, the wrongly disallowed goal, going down to 10 men and our abysmal performance. If the goal was allowed to stand, we'll never know if we would have gone to avoid defeat.
No the only thing we can know for sure is that we had a 100% legitimate goal chalked off because of incompetence. Nothing else matters and trying to justify it as "maybe they'd have worked harder and won 3-1 instead" or that we should account for a decision like that is just some weird coping bullshit. The ref has fucked up and cost us but some people would rather bitch and moan at Maatsen, Emery, Martinez, etc and I have no fucking idea why.
No idea why? How about if they had turned-up and performed, we wouldn't have needed to count on the ref to make a correct call? I know you don't generally criticise the team even when we play poorly but surely you can understand folkbeing pissed-off with how we failed to turn-up first and foremost.
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
VAR then.
But then the defending team will claim that when they heard the ref’s whistle they stopped playing
Incorrect whistle. Corrected an obvious mistake.
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Recency bias will inform a lot of fan's view of the season.
BUT in the league you end up where you deserve. Looking back - are these the games where we blew it:
2 draws against Ipswich.
Conceding a late equaliser against Bournemouth at home -
2 points dropped
Conceding a late winner at C115ty - 1 point dropped.
Being 0-1 at Forest and conceding in the 87th and 90+3 - 3 points dropped.
A period of calm reflection is needed.
That and the realisation that with Mings in defence, we were much more solid. Should he have come on today when we went down to 10 men.
Why can't Emery set us up against sides with a back 3?
Mings may or may not be a fading force.
But he was responsible for a big upturn in our defensive play when he returned to the side this year. And played a big role in helping us get European football in Emery's first season.
It would take a special player to keep him out and Pau ain't that.
Whatever affection Mings may have for the club following his six years here, if he did decide it move on in the summer I couldn't blame him at all.
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
Except VAR can go back, review and override decisions. We've even had decisions where a game has ended, only for a penalty to be reviewed and given after the final whistle.
I agree that the under the current rules then the correct process was followed, but after seeing that today you do have to question if that is the right process.
The process is fine. The daft decision to blow the whistle was the only problem.
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I’m not sure rather - it’s both, ref fucked up with a terrible mistake. But we were also diabolically bad. We should have been 1-0 in front, and we might have won, but we also might have lost given how we’d played.
But again only the bold stuff is actual fact. Everything after that is possibilities and, as I said earlier, it's not like a team winning against the run of play is unusual.
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Europa is easier to win these days as you don't have a bunch of CL sides dropping in halfway through. Doesn't mean we'll win it, we're Villa, but we have a good chance.
Doing better in the league while in the Europa compared to being in the CL is probably harder though due to the heavy number of shite Thursday to Sunday turn-arounds.
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
Except VAR can go back, review and override decisions. We've even had decisions where a game has ended, only for a penalty to be reviewed and given after the final whistle.
I agree that the under the current rules then the correct process was followed, but after seeing that today you do have to question if that is the right process.
The process is fine. The daft decision to blow the whistle was the only problem.
Blowing the whistle is part of the process. VAR is supposed to correct clear and obvious errors, it's mental that a ref blowing up for whatever means no VAR.
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Europa is easier to win these days as you don't have a bunch of CL sides dropping in halfway through. Doesn't mean we'll win it, we're Villa, but we have a good chance.
Doing better in the league while in the Europa compared to being in the CL is probably harder though due to the heavy number of shite Thursday to Sunday turn-arounds.
spot on. Great I your a club with a huge turnover than our
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A referee that no one’s ever heard of to referee a game of that magnitude is bordering on corruption.
He's on the list. You're suggesting that he was paid to make a mistake, or someone else was paid to make him make a mistake.
Well I thought you might defend him him being from Sheffield and all.
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
Except VAR can go back, review and override decisions. We've even had decisions where a game has ended, only for a penalty to be reviewed and given after the final whistle.
I agree that the under the current rules then the correct process was followed, but after seeing that today you do have to question if that is the right process.
The process is fine. The daft decision to blow the whistle was the only problem.
Blowing the whistle is part of the process. VAR is supposed to correct clear and obvious errors, it's mental that a ref blowing up for whatever means no VAR.
But anything that happens with the ball after the whistle has blown hasn't happened. Because the ball is no longer in play.
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We did look very passive most of first half. I guess the plan was to go for it second half, without the red we would have every chance to get something out of it even one down at halftime. No way we where going to get something second half down to ten and Olsen in goal.
Im getting sick of this passive first half, it was Manure ffs , the worse manure team in decades , I want the villa who goes for the throat straight away and gets those early goals.
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Referee fucked up - it’s not corrupt, but it’s a real fuck up. But in any case, we would still qualified had the result stayed the same. But we conceded immediately, which was reflective of the utterly pathetic display we put in.
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
Except VAR can go back, review and override decisions. We've even had decisions where a game has ended, only for a penalty to be reviewed and given after the final whistle.
I agree that the under the current rules then the correct process was followed, but after seeing that today you do have to question if that is the right process.
The process is fine. The daft decision to blow the whistle was the only problem.
Blowing the whistle is part of the process. VAR is supposed to correct clear and obvious errors, it's mental that a ref blowing up for whatever means no VAR.
Agreed.
If that's the process, the process is a load of old cock.
Wrong is wrong. If the technology is there to see and correct, use it.
Or bin it off entirely.
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Europa is easier to win these days as you don't have a bunch of CL sides dropping in halfway through. Doesn't mean we'll win it, we're Villa, but we have a good chance.
Doing better in the league while in the Europa compared to being in the CL is probably harder though due to the heavy number of shite Thursday to Sunday turn-arounds.
Already booked a hotel in Istanbul for 19-21 May next year.
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Europa is easier to win these days as you don't have a bunch of CL sides dropping in halfway through. Doesn't mean we'll win it, we're Villa, but we have a good chance.
Doing better in the league while in the Europa compared to being in the CL is probably harder though due to the heavy number of shite Thursday to Sunday turn-arounds.
[/quo
Already booked a hotel in Istanbul for 19-21 May 2026.
Is that for the final against Crystal Palace?
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At least two ways to get in the chumps league next season and get some leaders in next season.
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Blowing the whistle is the end a live ball. It's why "play to the whistle" is the most basic thing, not ignore the whistle and crack on just in case.
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Europa is easier to win these days as you don't have a bunch of CL sides dropping in halfway through. Doesn't mean we'll win it, we're Villa, but we have a good chance.
Doing better in the league while in the Europa compared to being in the CL is probably harder though due to the heavy number of shite Thursday to Sunday turn-arounds.
[/quo
Already booked a hotel in Istanbul for 19-21 May 2026.
Is that for the final against Crystal Palace?
I'll spare you the hassle. We lose 3-0 and Sarr gets a couple.
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I suppose we should be grateful he didn't book Rogers for kicking the ball away.
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On way home. Terrible performance from team and Uni. So difficult to take as we only needed a point. Watching the sending off the Utd's forward first touch took him so wide that Emily simply didn't need to make that block. Konsa was also covering. That summed up our display. The so called No. 1 goal keeper in the world making an terrible decision which cost us any real hope. Also worrying is another no show along with the Semi Final. It's the hope that kills you...
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
Except VAR can go back, review and override decisions. We've even had decisions where a game has ended, only for a penalty to be reviewed and given after the final whistle.
I agree that the under the current rules then the correct process was followed, but after seeing that today you do have to question if that is the right process.
The process is fine. The daft decision to blow the whistle was the only problem.
Blowing the whistle is part of the process. VAR is supposed to correct clear and obvious errors, it's mental that a ref blowing up for whatever means no VAR.
But anything that happens with the ball after the whistle has blown hasn't happened. Because the ball is no longer in play.
Maybe there could be a change to say VAR could review (1) whether the whistle has been blown incorrectly and (2) whether that made any material difference to what followed?
In this case, the ref had stopped play, but there was no Man Utd player in a position to stop Rogers scoring even if he hadn't blown.
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Absolutely gutted with the result, the wrongly disallowed goal, going down to 10 men and our abysmal performance. If the goal was allowed to stand, we'll never know if we would have gone to avoid defeat.
No the only thing we can know for sure is that we had a 100% legitimate goal chalked off because of incompetence. Nothing else matters and trying to justify it as "maybe they'd have worked harder and won 3-1 instead" or that we should account for a decision like that is just some weird coping bullshit. The ref has fucked up and cost us but some people would rather bitch and moan at Maatsen, Emery, Martinez, etc and I have no fucking idea why.
No idea why? How about if they had turned-up and performed, we wouldn't have needed to count on the ref to make a correct call? I know you don't generally criticise the team even when we play poorly but surely you can understand folkbeing pissed-off with how we failed to turn-up first and foremost.
That's his fucking job, his sole purpose in being there is to ensure a fair game and he failed in donig so in the most spectacular fashion.
I've criticised the team plenty todaty, we were shit, Cash and Emi both fucked up massively when what we needed, at the time, was to see it through to halftime. I'll even call out Watkins for his worst performance in years for us.
My point is that none of that is more important than what happened with the ref. We'd been shit for 72 minutes, and then we took our chance and had it stolen from us from by a genuinely unacceptable decision.
This one isn't even subjective or arguable, it's just flat out wrong, he got the decision wrong (but acceptably so) and then compounded it by taking away his ability to be corrected. If he'd blown after the ball was in the net and said he thought it was a foul I'd be annoyed but I'd accept it. If VAR upheld it with some silly excuse I'd be pissed off but, after a few days I'd let it go but that's not what happened. He blew his whistle as we were in the act of scoring, meaning there's absolutely fuck all anyone can do, and as a club we can argue that it's cost us the best part of 20% of our revenue for next season.
Be frustrated at how we played sure but when players are being sold for PSR balancing reasons over the summer don't forget this fucking twat of a ref has played a huge part in that being necessary.
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In tennis if the judge calls it out but it's not and the player reviews it then if the opponent couldn't have gotten to the ball it's given as a point. Football is fucked with this VAR though.
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Problem is you'll then have the other side say "we stopped because of the whistle". How do you prove that either way every single time. One side will say one thing, the other side something else.
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It's clear we didn't deserve anything other than a defeat. We simply didn't turn up. A mistake from Cash & some lunacy from Emi cost us. But, despite all that, we should have been 1-0 up with 15 mins to go. We'll never know how the game would have ended but a draw would have been enough.
I don't believe in any conspiracy, but it is either bias or a monumental fuck up by the ref. An error that's going to cost us £40m+. It should be the end of that ref's career but I doubt it will be.
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One of the worst things with that appalling decision by the ref is the fact that he was 30 yards away and his view was obscured by Rogers. He basically guessed. I'm absolutely furious with the incompetent twat. And I still don't really understand why var can't put the wrong decision right just because he has blown his whistle? Why is that even a rule? The ball went into the net so the game had stopped anyway so it would have been easy for them to tell him over the radio that he had cocked it up and then instruct him to award the goal.
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I don't know why I don't already think like this, but from now on I'm definitely taking the cd view when it comes to us away at Old Trafford. I will not let a shred of positivity possibly seep into me. We could be on a 30 game winning run and I will absolutely think we will lose from now on.
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Problem is you'll then have the other side say "we stopped because of the whistle". How do you prove that either way every single time. One side will say one thing, the other side something else.
Yeah, I don't really think the rules were the problem today, just the overzealous twat enforcing them both incorrectly and too quickly.
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Absolutely gutted with the result, the wrongly disallowed goal, going down to 10 men and our abysmal performance. If the goal was allowed to stand, we'll never know if we would have gone to avoid defeat.
No the only thing we can know for sure is that we had a 100% legitimate goal chalked off because of incompetence. Nothing else matters and trying to justify it as "maybe they'd have worked harder and won 3-1 instead" or that we should account for a decision like that is just some weird coping bullshit. The ref has fucked up and cost us but some people would rather bitch and moan at Maatsen, Emery, Martinez, etc and I have no fucking idea why.
No idea why? How about if they had turned-up and performed, we wouldn't have needed to count on the ref to make a correct call? I know you don't generally criticise the team even when we play poorly but surely you can understand folkbeing pissed-off with how we failed to turn-up first and foremost.
That's his fucking job, his sole purpose in being there is to ensure a fair game and he failed in donig so in the most spectacular fashion.
I've criticised the team plenty todaty, we were shit, Cash and Emi both fucked up massively when what we needed, at the time, was to see it through to halftime. I'll even call out Watkins for his worst performance in years for us.
My point is that none of that is more important than what happened with the ref. We'd been shit for 72 minutes, and then we took our chance and had it stolen from us from by a genuinely unacceptable decision.
This one isn't even subjective or arguable, it's just flat out wrong, he got the decision wrong (but acceptably so) and then compounded it by taking away his ability to be corrected. If he'd blown after the ball was in the net and said he thought it was a foul I'd be annoyed but I'd accept it. If VAR upheld it with some silly excuse I'd be pissed off but, after a few days I'd let it go but that's not what happened. He blew his whistle as we were in the act of scoring, meaning there's absolutely fuck all anyone can do, and as a club we can argue that it's cost us the best part of 20% of our revenue for next season.
Be frustrated at how we played sure but when players are being sold for PSR balancing reasons over the summer don't forget this fucking twat of a ref has played a huge part in that being necessary.
Fuck me. Some actual sense. Yes, we were bad. Yes, Martinez was an idiot. But we FOUND A WAY with 10 men to score and keep them out. That is a massive positive, but it was taken from us by a ref who was desperate to blow his whistle at a precise moment when he could've just let it ride. Why are people okay with that? Fuck being rational. I want his career on a stick
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Our bottling is happening away from Villa Park, at home we are incredibly strong, I’m trying to make my peace with it, overall it’s still been a very strong season.
UTV
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
Except VAR can go back, review and override decisions. We've even had decisions where a game has ended, only for a penalty to be reviewed and given after the final whistle.
I agree that the under the current rules then the correct process was followed, but after seeing that today you do have to question if that is the right process.
The process is fine. The daft decision to blow the whistle was the only problem.
Blowing the whistle is part of the process. VAR is supposed to correct clear and obvious errors, it's mental that a ref blowing up for whatever means no VAR.
But anything that happens with the ball after the whistle has blown hasn't happened. Because the ball is no longer in play.
So VAR doesn't correct referees poor decisions.
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Our bottling is happening away from Villa Park, at home we are incredibly strong, I’m trying to make my peace with it, overall it’s still been a very strong season.
UTV
Need to get a European final at Villa Park. And qualify for it, obviously.
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Absolutely gutted with the result, the wrongly disallowed goal, going down to 10 men and our abysmal performance. If the goal was allowed to stand, we'll never know if we would have gone to avoid defeat.
No the only thing we can know for sure is that we had a 100% legitimate goal chalked off because of incompetence. Nothing else matters and trying to justify it as "maybe they'd have worked harder and won 3-1 instead" or that we should account for a decision like that is just some weird coping bullshit. The ref has fucked up and cost us but some people would rather bitch and moan at Maatsen, Emery, Martinez, etc and I have no fucking idea why.
No idea why? How about if they had turned-up and performed, we wouldn't have needed to count on the ref to make a correct call? I know you don't generally criticise the team even when we play poorly but surely you can understand folkbeing pissed-off with how we failed to turn-up first and foremost.
That's his fucking job, his sole purpose in being there is to ensure a fair game and he failed in donig so in the most spectacular fashion.
I've criticised the team plenty todaty, we were shit, Cash and Emi both fucked up massively when what we needed, at the time, was to see it through to halftime. I'll even call out Watkins for his worst performance in years for us.
My point is that none of that is more important than what happened with the ref. We'd been shit for 72 minutes, and then we took our chance and had it stolen from us from by a genuinely unacceptable decision.
This one isn't even subjective or arguable, it's just flat out wrong, he got the decision wrong (but acceptably so) and then compounded it by taking away his ability to be corrected. If he'd blown after the ball was in the net and said he thought it was a foul I'd be annoyed but I'd accept it. If VAR upheld it with some silly excuse I'd be pissed off but, after a few days I'd let it go but that's not what happened. He blew his whistle as we were in the act of scoring, meaning there's absolutely fuck all anyone can do, and as a club we can argue that it's cost us the best part of 20% of our revenue for next season.
Be frustrated at how we played sure but when players are being sold for PSR balancing reasons over the summer don't forget this fucking twat of a ref has played a huge part in that being necessary.
I have to say, I agree with this. As bad as we were, we still could have been 1 nil up with 20 mins to go. That might have been enough.
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If we went up there needing to avoid defeat by 10 goals we'd have someone sent off after 10 seconds, lose our heads and get done 11-0. I fucking hate the place and the inadequates that follow them.
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Today is when VAR should prove its value, we score, ref ask VAR to review as he thinks there was a foul. VAR checks, no foul, goal stands, all worked perfectly.
And in a scenario it was a foul, VAR disallows the goal correctly.
The ref took VAR out of the equation.
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Already booked a hotel in Istanbul for 19-21 May next year.
I usually go with IHG, so I'll have to wait a couple of weeks. I've always wanted to visit Istanbul.
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
Except VAR can go back, review and override decisions. We've even had decisions where a game has ended, only for a penalty to be reviewed and given after the final whistle.
I agree that the under the current rules then the correct process was followed, but after seeing that today you do have to question if that is the right process.
The process is fine. The daft decision to blow the whistle was the only problem.
Blowing the whistle is part of the process. VAR is supposed to correct clear and obvious errors, it's mental that a ref blowing up for whatever means no VAR.
But anything that happens with the ball after the whistle has blown hasn't happened. Because the ball is no longer in play.
So VAR doesn't correct referees poor decisions.
how can it when he's already blown?
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Two draws against fucking Ipswich cost us. Win either of those games and this afternoons shit show would have been irrelevant.
That's it for me. I have been saying for some weeks now, that I thought we would finish 6th and the most decisive results for me were taking only 2 points from a terrible Ipswich team. I think only us & Spuds have failed to beat Ipswich this season.
That has cost us big time.
The 4 that cost us the most are these two, Bournemouth at home and Man City.
But, every club can list games of lost points.
Yes I get all that, but Forest, Man City & B'mouth are all decent teams, Ipswich have been shit all year and one of the worst Premier League teams ever.
And one point against Manchester United.
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One of the worst things with that appalling decision by the ref is the fact that he was 30 yards away and his view was obscured by Rogers. He basically guessed. I'm absolutely furious with the incompetent twat. And I still don't really understand why var can't put the wrong decision right just because he has blown his whistle? Why is that even a rule? The ball went into the net so the game had stopped anyway so it would have been easy for them to tell him over the radio that he had cocked it up and then instruct him to award the goal.
but as above, the argument from Man U would be that their players reacted to the whistle so it's impacted play. In this case that would clearly be bullshit but if you change the rule for ones like this then there's eventually going to be a case where it does have an impact.
We've all heard after the Forest player got hurt that ARs are told not to raise their flag for the same reason so, with all that being in the spotlight, it's an incredible lapse of judgement for the ref to blow up when he did. I don't think it's corruption, just pure incompetence, but that doesn't make much difference when it's had such a catastrophic impact on our season.
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Our bottling is happening away from Villa Park, at home we are incredibly strong, I’m trying to make my peace with it, overall it’s still been a very strong season.
UTV
Need to get a European final at Villa Park. And qualify for it, obviously.
Olympiakos say hello.
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It's clear we didn't deserve anything other than a defeat. We simply didn't turn up. A mistake from Cash & some lunacy from Emi cost us. But, despite all that, we should have been 1-0 up with 15 mins to go. We'll never know how the game would have ended but a draw would have been enough.
I don't believe in any conspiracy, but it is either bias or a monumental fuck up by the ref. An error that's going to cost us £40m+. It should be the end of that ref's career but I doubt it will be.
The ref took his time on the penalty decision, and couldn't blow quick enough when Rogers robbed the goalie with the goal at his mercy. A decision that will alter the club going forward financially and deny some players of ever playing CL football. We deserved nothing today with the performance, but the fact will always remain we were done over by a horror decision.
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Hellas, surely?
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We lost at at an ground where away teams winning the game. We tactically fucked up and caused our own demise. Again.
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I think why I'm so frustrated by this is that there are Villa fans downplaying how big an impact it had when even twats like Savage are seeing it the same as me:
Robbie Savage
Former Leicester midfielder on BBC Radio 5 Live
Watch it on TV and you can clearly hear the whistle go and all the referee has to do is wait two seconds.
The officials say don't put your flag up, so we'll see a player in an offside position by five or six yards, they let the play go on, wait and then they stick the flag up 15 seconds later. All they had to do was let it run out then use VAR and if he wanted to give the free-kick he would've but he's blown his whistle. It's a massive, massive error.
Man Utd might've gone on to win the game but at 1-0 Villa it's a completely different game. That is a huge, huge, huge decision by the referee because VAR couldn't get involved because the game was dead.
Massive talking point for Villa fans.
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I think why I'm so frustrated by this is that there are Villa fans downplaying how big an impact it had when even twats like Savage are seeing it the same as me:
Robbie Savage
Former Leicester midfielder on BBC Radio 5 Live
Watch it on TV and you can clearly hear the whistle go and all the referee has to do is wait two seconds.
The officials say don't put your flag up, so we'll see a player in an offside position by five or six yards, they let the play go on, wait and then they stick the flag up 15 seconds later. All they had to do was let it run out then use VAR and if he wanted to give the free-kick he would've but he's blown his whistle. It's a massive, massive error.
Man Utd might've gone on to win the game but at 1-0 Villa it's a completely different game. That is a huge, huge, huge decision by the referee because VAR couldn't get involved because the game was dead.
Massive talking point for Villa fans.
Jesus. When even that pantomime villain is sympathetic to you then you know what a f*ck up it was.
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I think why I'm so frustrated by this is that there are Villa fans downplaying how big an impact it had when even twats like Savage are seeing it the same as me:
Robbie Savage
Former Leicester midfielder on BBC Radio 5 Live
Watch it on TV and you can clearly hear the whistle go and all the referee has to do is wait two seconds.
The officials say don't put your flag up, so we'll see a player in an offside position by five or six yards, they let the play go on, wait and then they stick the flag up 15 seconds later. All they had to do was let it run out then use VAR and if he wanted to give the free-kick he would've but he's blown his whistle. It's a massive, massive error.
Man Utd might've gone on to win the game but at 1-0 Villa it's a completely different game. That is a huge, huge, huge decision by the referee because VAR couldn't get involved because the game was dead.
Massive talking point for Villa fans.
Yeah, that's where I'm at. Why downplay it? It's a disgrace.
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The refs mistake was sickening at the time because if you are like me you didn't know he had blown when he did, and felt sure the decision would be overturned.
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People want to blame a specific game lost or drawn for not making the CL, but it's goal difference. So many games where we conceded first and had to come back to win, several games where we were comfortably winning and then conceded goals. Games we were dominant in and only scored 1 of about 10 chances. We're not clinical enough, and we can't seem to put a 90 minute performance in with any consistency.
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Bad decisions have been happening all season, the standard of refereeing has been appalling and the inconsistency of how the laws are applied even worse. What has been consistent are the officials allowing the game to go until that phase of play is done so they can use this bloody VAR system. Today, the ref chose not to do that and that is what people are upset about.
I’ve watched it a few times and cannot understand what’s happened. Surely it’s drummed into them to not to whistle straight away.
It’s no good complaining as they mark their own homework.
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I think there's such thing as being too rational. Job was done. I hope the club litigate.
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I think why I'm so frustrated by this is that there are Villa fans downplaying how big an impact it had when even twats like Savage are seeing it the same as me:
Robbie Savage
Former Leicester midfielder on BBC Radio 5 Live
Watch it on TV and you can clearly hear the whistle go and all the referee has to do is wait two seconds.
The officials say don't put your flag up, so we'll see a player in an offside position by five or six yards, they let the play go on, wait and then they stick the flag up 15 seconds later. All they had to do was let it run out then use VAR and if he wanted to give the free-kick he would've but he's blown his whistle. It's a massive, massive error.
Man Utd might've gone on to win the game but at 1-0 Villa it's a completely different game. That is a huge, huge, huge decision by the referee because VAR couldn't get involved because the game was dead.
Massive talking point for Villa fans.
What the point Manchester United Manchester City and especially Liverpool have been shown favouritism for years, the referee could have waited.What the hell Martezi was doing.
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Ok own up, who’s done this 😂 https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bramall
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Is there any sort of man city points deduction we can pray for?
Well the verdict is due any day.
Is it?
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Fcuk me, if Robbie Armani can even see it maybe it will penetrate at other levels.
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It’s been overdue for months hasn’t it? They’re getting nothing meaningful.
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Fcuk me, if Robbie Armani can even see it maybe it will penetrate at other levels.
No one cares. Come Tuesday it will be forgotten and they will move on to fucking around with some other VAR rules making them more confusing and adding more layers of interpretation. Let it go. We were shit, deserved to lose and Refs are getting worse backed up by a VAR system that marks its own homework and tells us all how good it is. It's already spoiled the spontaneity of the game.
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Whatever swingeing penalty they get, I'd put money on it including the word 'suspended'.
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Thing is - the decision is terrible, but it’s still 0-0 after it. We lost after that - I kind of want to know how with several more days to rest/prepare against an all time bad Man Utd side we turn up and play so utterly pathetically.
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I’ve calmed down now and in the cold light of day I don’t blame the referees or Unai, it was Cash and Emi who fucked that up. With Emi on the pitch we would have done them
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Whatever swingeing penalty they get, I'd put money on it including the word 'suspended'.
Yep it’s going to be a cop out.
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That was a disgrace by thr team. Emi fucked up when it really mattered
We clearly have an issue when we need a result- we're bottle jobs
But we saw a decision that robbed us of champions league, that will change what we can achieve over the next few years.
We need to cause merry hell about this. We now have to sale players because of a ref didn't do there job properly.
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At least the season ticket email tomorrow should show a lower amount than planned ?
That will be interesting!
Might be higher as we need to make up the lost revenue.
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Edit
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I think I totally agree with Brontebillys summary
Most of it but the take on Onana is way over the top. Kamara was even worse.
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Thing is - the decision is terrible, but it’s still 0-0 after it. We lost after that - I kind of want to know how with several more days to rest/prepare against an all time bad Man Utd side we turn up and play so utterly pathetically.
The whole tone and tempo was wrong from the outset, as it was against Palace.
A bit of attacking verve and zip and they could've been 0-2 down in the first half hour and business as usual for them this season. We'll never know because we gave them the courage to grow into and ultimately control the game.
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I think I totally agree with Brontebillys summary
Most of it but the take on Onana is way over the top. Kamara was even worse.
Kamara has been pony in most of our big games this year, which is a worry.
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It is right to say the ball is dead as soon as the whistle is blown, so there can be no VAR review.
It is also true to say, match officials selectively apply the laws and ‘instructions’. They even have guidance that provides them with cover - they talk about “respecting the entertainment” of the match/occasion.
For example, I suspect the VAR official was in the ear of the ref suggesting a penalty that it looks like both the ref and linesman had missed.
So, if VAR had reviewed the decision and sent the ref to the monitor, allowing him the chance to overturn his decision, there would be little or no fuss.
The PGMOL is not corrupt, though it is guilty of seeking to do everything it can to prioritise the onfield decisions at the expense of getting the right outcome. As a result, they often look ridiculous and further diminish the reputation they seek to uphold.
The bottom line - for me - is that we were really poor, but that does not negate the fact that it’s very likely a terrible and avoidable* decision changed the outcome of a really important game.
*avoidable in the sense that had a VAR review happened any comments about the ref having blown the whistle a second too early would be dismissed with claims of how “VAR had enabled the right outcome.”
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are we still Adidas Elite? :(
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Is there any sort of man city points deduction we can pray for?
Well the verdict is due any day.
Is it?
Never mind the day, a specific decade might be useful.
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Thing is - the decision is terrible, but it’s still 0-0 after it. We lost after that - I kind of want to know how with several more days to rest/prepare against an all time bad Man Utd side we turn up and play so utterly pathetically.
The whole tone and tempo was wrong from the outset, as it was against Palace.
A bit of attacking verve and zip and they could've been 0-2 down in the first half hour and business as usual for them this season. We'll never know because we gave them the courage to grow into and ultimately control the game.
Tone is set by leaders. Our biggest leader was left on the f*cking bench. Martinez lost his head. McGinn was a ghost and Watkins was appalling.
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Isn't that what VAR is for too correct mistakes by the referee, well some got their wish who criticise it as the referee helped with that decision
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Is there any sort of man city points deduction we can pray for?
Well the verdict is due any day.
Is it?
Never mind the day, a specific decade might be useful.
Didn't Simon Jordan suggest not to expect a decision before 2030 when all the main protagonists and those impacted are long removed from the scene of the crime.
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The penalty was a bit of a strange one as well. There seemed to be a bit of delay before he pointed a bit unconvincingly to the spot. Wonder how he reached that decision as it didn't look like he'd seen it initially.
The linesman didnt flag , he must have got something in his ear piece.
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Wow what a shitshow . Again when it mattered .
Emery poor team selection again favouring the hapless Torres who cannot defend or command / organise a backline .
The rest of them , pathetic , what were the actual tactics / instructions. That was abhorrent. Disgraceful showing .
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People know we went 1-0 up away from home with 10 men, right?
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It is right to say the ball is dead as soon as the whistle is blown, so there can be no VAR review.
It is also true to say, match officials selectively apply the laws and ‘instructions’. They even have guidance that provides them with cover - they talk about “respecting the entertainment” of the match/occasion.
For example, I suspect the VAR official was in the ear of the ref suggesting a penalty that it looks like both the ref and linesman had missed.
So, if VAR had reviewed the decision and sent the ref to the monitor, allowing him the chance to overturn his decision, there would be little or no fuss.
The PGMOL is not corrupt, though it is guilty of seeking to do everything it can to prioritise the onfield decisions at the expense of getting the right outcome. As a result, they often look ridiculous and further diminish the reputation they seek to uphold.
The bottom line - for me - is that we were really poor, but that does not negate the fact that it’s very likely a terrible and avoidable* decision changed the outcome of a really important game.
*avoidable in the sense that had a VAR review happened any comments about the ref having blown the whistle a second too early would be dismissed with claims of how “VAR had enabled the right outcome.”
I agree with this and feel it is a relatively minor adjustment to the current VAR remit.
To me you can compare the decision to send Emi off (which was correct) where they have to surmise that Torres could not have made an impact as a covering defender, therefore Emi made a ‘last man’ challenge. In this case there is supposition about what might have happened had the foul not happened.
They could similarly surmise that even if the whistle had not been blown, there was no Man U defender who could have stopped Morgan’s goal. The whistle was blown incorrectly, but did not impact play, therefore the goal stands.
If anything, the second is a clearer decision.
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
Except VAR can go back, review and override decisions. We've even had decisions where a game has ended, only for a penalty to be reviewed and given after the final whistle.
I agree that the under the current rules then the correct process was followed, but after seeing that today you do have to question if that is the right process.
The process is fine. The daft decision to blow the whistle was the only problem.
Blowing the whistle is part of the process. VAR is supposed to correct clear and obvious errors, it's mental that a ref blowing up for whatever means no VAR.
But anything that happens with the ball after the whistle has blown hasn't happened. Because the ball is no longer in play.
So VAR doesn't correct referees poor decisions.
It corrects poor decisions made when the ball is live. The whistle stops that.
Interestingly, very early on in the match, the live text mentioned Heaven brought down Watkins when he was last man but the flag went up so offside was called. The live text person mentioned Ollie looked onside. Anyone have any thoughts on that? It probably should have been reviewed as it was a potential red card call, but again might also have fallen into the cracks between what VAR can and can't review.
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Lets face it, if the ref hadn't blown his whistle and the goal had been referred to the VAR (Stewart Attwell) who would have any faith in him reaching the correct decision anyway.
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We need to look st the performance rather than the officials (yes they were crap but we could easily have been 0-2 , 0-3 down before the disallowed goal) . Absolutely shite performance and we shouldn't disguise that .
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We. Went. Ahead. With. 10. Men.
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https://www.skysports.com/football/man-utd-vs-aston-villa/report/506181
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The thing I don't get is, what's the point in having VAR you can't look the referee's decision even if he's blown his whistle?
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https://x.com/avfcstatto/status/1926692154476229034?s=46
McGinn isn’t wrong
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
Except VAR can go back, review and override decisions. We've even had decisions where a game has ended, only for a penalty to be reviewed and given after the final whistle.
I agree that the under the current rules then the correct process was followed, but after seeing that today you do have to question if that is the right process.
The process is fine. The daft decision to blow the whistle was the only problem.
Blowing the whistle is part of the process. VAR is supposed to correct clear and obvious errors, it's mental that a ref blowing up for whatever means no VAR.
But anything that happens with the ball after the whistle has blown hasn't happened. Because the ball is no longer in play.
So VAR doesn't correct referees poor decisions.
It corrects poor decisions made when the ball is live. The whistle stops that.
Interestingly, very early on in the match, the live text mentioned Heaven brought down Watkins when he was last man but the flag went up so offside was called. The live text person mentioned Ollie looked onside. Anyone have any thoughts on that? It probably should have been reviewed as it was a potential red card call, but again might also have fallen into the cracks between what VAR can and can't review.mm
Think he was off alright, flag not meant to go up though. bring it back if tight. I wouldn't mind but they were wide open but the pass was delayed slightly. Same in second half, Ramsey was clean through but Watkins made a mess of the pass.
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Isn't that what VAR is for too correct mistakes by the referee, well some got their wish who criticise it as the referee helped with that decision
Var can't unblow the whistle.
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I’ve calmed down now and in the cold light of day I don’t blame the referees or Unai, it was Cash and Emi who fucked that up. With Emi on the pitch we would have done them
Lay of the booze. We weren't even 2nd to the second balls when Emin went off.
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I’ve calmed down now and in the cold light of day I don’t blame the referees or Unai, it was Cash and Emi who fucked that up. With Emi on the pitch we would have done them
Lay of the booze. We weren't even 2nd to the second balls when Emin went off.
Well yeah, but going into the second half 11 vs 11 is entirely different.
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I’ve calmed down now and in the cold light of day I don’t blame the referees or Unai, it was Cash and Emi who fucked that up. With Emi on the pitch we would have done them
Lay of the booze. We weren't even 2nd to the second balls when Emin went off.
Abysmal performance. Didn't show up .
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I’ve calmed down now and in the cold light of day I don’t blame the referees or Unai, it was Cash and Emi who fucked that up. With Emi on the pitch we would have done them
Lay of the booze. We weren't even 2nd to the second balls when Emin went off.
Tracey has some explaining to do.
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It was a clear red for Emi, a clear fuck up for our 'goal', a clear penalty.
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It was a clear red for Emi, a clear fuck up for our 'goal', a clear penalty.
With Holjunds touch taking it well away from goal, not sure on the clear goal scoring opportunity side of DOGSO. But it was such a clumsy challenge, AND after the bollocking the refs would have gotten from the FA Cup decision, I'm not surprised it was a red.
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It was a clear red for Emi, a clear fuck up for our 'goal', a clear penalty.
Spot on.
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The ref made a massive mistake and probably cost us the game
Emi made a massive mistake and probably cost us the game
Cash made a massive mistake and probably cost us the game
The ref made a mistake but he wasn’t the only one
It Ended up in our own hands as we wanted and we failed
Spurs will be in the Champions League next year which will grate because we are a far better team
But they’re there because they actually won something that’s something we’ve failed to do for 30 years and it’s something Unai has to put right while he’s with us, hopefully starting with that Europa cup thing
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Yup.
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Agreed win fuck all deserved fuck all
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Forget about today basic defending this season has cost us, for example Nottingham Forest away Cash kicks it away and it doesn't matter what happens today we qualify for the Champions league. It's the constant playing ourselves into danger that has cost us this season not what happened today
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Thing is - the decision is terrible, but it’s still 0-0 after it. We lost after that - I kind of want to know how with several more days to rest/prepare against an all time bad Man Utd side we turn up and play so utterly pathetically.
The whole tone and tempo was wrong from the outset, as it was against Palace.
A bit of attacking verve and zip and they could've been 0-2 down in the first half hour and business as usual for them this season. We'll never know because we gave them the courage to grow into and ultimately control the game.
I completely agree with both of you.
Swapping messages this morning with a couple of mates I used to play football with in France, a Wednesday fan and a Gas head. They were convinced all we had to do was put them under early pressure, play on their misery from Wednesday night and they’d feel sorry for themselves. I warned them of our record up there and how I feared for us in this game.
Instead we do the usual slow start to the game and let them gain momentum. We have had too many big games where we get it wrong in terms of tactics and attitude. I remember two years ago we had to beat Brighton to get European qualification and we went at them like terriers from the off,galvanizing the crowd and giving us belief. And a two goal lead. We weren’t running on empty today and one last push would have changed everything. A colossal wasted opportunity.
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Pretty sure everyone knows that when the ref blows play is dead. The system did nothing wrong today, the ref blowing too soon is the fuck up.
Except VAR can go back, review and override decisions. We've even had decisions where a game has ended, only for a penalty to be reviewed and given after the final whistle.
I agree that the under the current rules then the correct process was followed, but after seeing that today you do have to question if that is the right process.
The process is fine. The daft decision to blow the whistle was the only problem.
Blowing the whistle is part of the process. VAR is supposed to correct clear and obvious errors, it's mental that a ref blowing up for whatever means no VAR.
But anything that happens with the ball after the whistle has blown hasn't happened. Because the ball is no longer in play.
So VAR doesn't correct referees poor decisions.
It corrects poor decisions made when the ball is live. The whistle stops that.
Interestingly, very early on in the match, the live text mentioned Heaven brought down Watkins when he was last man but the flag went up so offside was called. The live text person mentioned Ollie looked onside. Anyone have any thoughts on that? It probably should have been reviewed as it was a potential red card call, but again might also have fallen into the cracks between what VAR can and can't review.
If it's the one I'm thinking of they were level to the naked eye but as he was making an attempt to play the ball at most it'd have been a yellow card, which can't be given on review (for some reason). In much the same vein the Diallo foul on Onana was 100% a yellow card but the ref didn't give it so couldn't be checked. Given Diallo then got a yellow 25mins later before going on to score the opener there's a fair argument that he was lucky to be on the pitch to score it.
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Over 38 games we look back to Ipswich & Bouremouth at home that's 4 points dropped and add 1 pont away at man city when the Chelsea spy dived in in the last minute. They all add up.
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Despite the refs monumental error, which will get lost in the, United would have won 2-1 instead. When it mattered most we didn't turn up, again. I'm more angry about that than anything.
Whether it's the player's fault, Emery's fault or both of we need to do something to address how we play away from Villa Park over the summer. I don't know if we thought we only had to turn up, but we were second best everywhere. Given what was at stake you'd think we would have been fired up for it. We're great when teams let us play at our pace.
You can't legislate for the idiotic challenge by Martinez. If it's the 89th minute & we're drawing when only needing a point, fair enough but to leave us a man down for 45 mins is criminal.
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Not familiar with the butterfly effect, then?
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It is a wasted opportunity but it’s Unai’s way away from home. He seems very reluctant to push away from home preferring instead a much more considered and calm approach keeping us in the game until unleashing later on. However that was fraught with risk today as the two things happened that we knew would:
A Man Yoo team with no pressure were able to get a foothold in the game they never relinquished
And we played like a bunch of idiots.
Sigh.
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Considering the shit run they are on, going 1-0 down at home to 10 men may well have caused them to fall apart and the crowd to turn on them.
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Surpassed even the surrender at Wembley. Impossible to describe how bad we were. Somehow we were still in the game until the ref rode us. Joe Cole calling it right here, we didn't show up. Against the worst Man United team in living memory. A striker at 50% level of Rooney/Van Persie gets a hat trick, Hojlund was arguably our best player. Right from the first minute we had stage fright. At least Palace has liked of Eze, this United team had basically nobody.
Unfathomable decision not to start Mings given what was at stake. But Cash and then Martinez made a collosal fuck up before half time. Emery sat on his hands far too long with subs, though Ramsey made no impact, could have helped Maatsen for the first. Emerys faith in his two big summer signings was unfortunately badly misplaced. That's the last we should see of Onana, complete fraud. Watkins and Rogers were pathetic
Martinez 0 - I think his starting position is wrong, when Cash checks back he should be much higher up. But he just lost it then, for such an experienced player it just beggared belief.
Cash 4 - terrible pass obviously. Tried hard in second half to make up for it in fairness, won a good few tackles. Looked our most likely to score which says a lot
Konsa 5 - the only one of our back 5 not to make a crazy error on the day. But a leader, no chance.
Torres 3 - rubbish. Caught in possession at start of second half that should have been punished. Distribution poor and chocolate teapot presence wise.
Maatsen 0 - Second half from hell, surpassing Konsa at Ipswich as worst individual performance of the season. At fault for both goals. That foul for penalty was embarrassing with ball going towards corner flag. His head was gone early in second half and Emery should have recognised it and brought Digne in.
Rogers 2 - zero support for Cash defensively and just offered zilch with it either. Attitude a bit suspect. Fatigue obviously an issue in a great season but Emery far too loyal to him.
Onana 1 - the absolute end for me and the first man out the door this summer. Couldn't trap a bag of sand, whinging when he was eventually taken off was laughable. 50m!!
Kamara 4 - not good enough again in a big game. Picked it up a bit in second half with Cash on that side. Seemed flat
McGinn 3 - game passed our captain by. For once I couldn't complain with him being hooked early.
Asensio - unfortunate really, one of the few to get a pass early on and then had to come off after Martinez moment of madness.
Watkins 3 - dreadful, his first half performance was just rotten from one of our most experienced players. That mahogany first touch in full display. Somehow made a mess of putting Ramsey through in second
Ramsey made little impact, Tielemans was decent enough. Olsen made one great save but Martinez at his best probably puts Anand into A&E for the first. Barkley and Malen didnt get enough time.
Emery - sadly a repeat of the Palace big freeze. 66 point season still a fine achievement but we blew it spectacularly today. Can't fathom leaving Mings out today or at Wembley. Rogers on right again... predictably didn't work. Two managerial blindspots there. Had a right to expect more of his two big signings, Maatsen and Onana, who flopped massively today. Too slow to make changes, like his players he just froze.
Might be a bit early on getting rid of Onana but I take the rest of the above points. Asensio off was a call I thought was strange at the time as he was performing decently and looked a threat in playing Watkins in with balls on the ground.
It was harsh on Asensio but the right change. With 10, you need mobile players and Asensio isn't one.
Onana and Torres should have gone at half time. Mings pace alone would have been of benefit but his leadership was absolutely required then. Tielemans came on anyway around the hour but this was absolutely not a day for giving players a bit more time. First half, some stat floating around that Man United had their highest xG of season! Still hard to believe how bad we were.
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If it's the one I'm thinking of they were level to the naked eye but as he was making an attempt to play the ball at most it'd have been a yellow card, which can't be given on review (for some reason). In much the same vein the Diallo foul on Onana was 100% a yellow card but the ref didn't give it so couldn't be checked. Given Diallo then got a yellow 25mins later before going on to score the opener there's a fair argument that he was lucky to be on the pitch to score it.
That only works if in the box and a penalty was also given. If outside the box it is a red card still if a DOGSO. However as I mentioned it might have fallen down the cracks of VAR options as maybe it needs the ref to blow for the foul for it to be reviewed for a red, similar to the FA Cup one last week.
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Clearly, we have been on the wrong end of a poor decision. However, I cannot feel too angry about it. The "effort" our players put in today was beyond an embarrassment
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A woeful performance '''especially galling because other results went our way.
There is endless commentary about the financial gulf between the Premier League and the EFL but the gap between the Champions League and the Europa League appears enormous. Today's defeat looks to be very troubling for our finances.
I noticed a comment on Twitter that we have the sixth highest wage bill in the League...can not see how we sustain that without the Champions League revenue.
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Bad day at the office, like the FA cup semi. We do seem to choke at big matches and I am sure there will be a shake up in the summer to rectify this. We have come a long way when missing out on Champions League on goal difference is seen as a bad season.
On the plus side, I'm considerably less arsed about losing Martinez now.
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Frustrating day. So much thanks for Unai but he does consistently make strange decisions despite a wonderful record
Why not play away as we do at home?
Why play Torres rather than Mings?
Why play Onana and Kamara together when it means we can’t play possession football?
Why play the ball around the back when we aren’t dominating possession?
Why play Asensio when it means Roger’s can’t play in his most effective position?
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If it's the one I'm thinking of they were level to the naked eye but as he was making an attempt to play the ball at most it'd have been a yellow card, which can't be given on review (for some reason). In much the same vein the Diallo foul on Onana was 100% a yellow card but the ref didn't give it so couldn't be checked. Given Diallo then got a yellow 25mins later before going on to score the opener there's a fair argument that he was lucky to be on the pitch to score it.
That only works if in the box and a penalty was also given. If outside the box it is a red card still if a DOGSO. However as I mentioned it might have fallen down the cracks of VAR options as maybe it needs the ref to blow for the foul for it to be reviewed for a red, similar to the FA Cup one last week.
You misunderstand me, I'm not talking double jeopardy here, I'm saying it wasn't enough to be a red card, he made a genuine attempt at the bal land at most was a little clumsy. As it was given offside they didn't really show many angles of it but it might not even have been a foul. I don't think we can have many complaints with that one, or with the Emi sending off.
The decisions I'm not happy with are not booking Diallo for going studs up into Onana, blowing up too early for Rogers 'goal' and giving them a very soft penalty that Diallo clearly played for by dangling out a leg where Maatsen couldn't really do much to avoid it.
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A woeful performance '''especially galling because other results went our way.
There is endless commentary about the financial gulf between the Premier League and the EFL but the gap between the Champions League and the Europa League appears enormous. Today's defeat looks to be very troubling for our finances.
I noticed a comment on Twitter that we have the sixth highest wage bill in the League...can not see how we sustain that without the Champions League revenue.
We’ve been in the champions league once since it started 33 years ago
i can’t believe we’re set up to rely on qualifying every year now, obviously would have been a lot better on the financial side though
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Bottom line. We failed to get CL because of our inability to beat Ipswich twice.
Undoubtedly done over by the officials today, but like Palace, come the big occasion we play like a bunch of started rabbits.
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If it's the one I'm thinking of they were level to the naked eye but as he was making an attempt to play the ball at most it'd have been a yellow card, which can't be given on review (for some reason). In much the same vein the Diallo foul on Onana was 100% a yellow card but the ref didn't give it so couldn't be checked. Given Diallo then got a yellow 25mins later before going on to score the opener there's a fair argument that he was lucky to be on the pitch to score it.
That only works if in the box and a penalty was also given. If outside the box it is a red card still if a DOGSO. However as I mentioned it might have fallen down the cracks of VAR options as maybe it needs the ref to blow for the foul for it to be reviewed for a red, similar to the FA Cup one last week.
You misunderstand me, I'm not talking double jeopardy here, I'm saying it wasn't enough to be a red card, he made a genuine attempt at the bal land at most was a little clumsy. As it was given offside they didn't really show many angles of it but it might not even have been a foul. I don't think we can have many complaints with that one, or with the Emi sending off.
The decisions I'm not happy with are not booking Diallo for going studs up into Onana, blowing up too early for Rogers 'goal' and giving them a very soft penalty that Diallo clearly played for by dangling out a leg where Maatsen couldn't really do much to avoid it.
Maatsen could have done plenty to avoid it.
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I fucking hate the term ‘bad day at the office’ especially when we have been battered and the shitshow has cost us the chance to be in the most elite European competition there is.
It’s a ‘bad day at the office’ that will cost the club £50m plus.
See the selling of top players
Prevent the signing of top, top players who want the lure of playing in the best competition.
Remove the kudos and prestige of being recognised as playing in the CL.
And being seen as a twatish for blowing it so spectacularly.
Yeah, just a bad day at the office.
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People know we went 1-0 up away from home with 10 men, right?
The point is we didn’t technically because the ref blew up before the ball hit the back of the net. If he’d have let play run, like they do when a player is obviously 5 yards off, VAR could have looked at it and hopefully made the correct decision. Goals change games but we weren’t afforded that luxury.
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Aston Villa can confirm the club has written to the PGMOL to raise concerns over the selection process of match officials following today’s game with Manchester United at Old Trafford.
With such high stakes surrounding today’s fixture, the club believe a more experienced referee should have been appointed. Of the 10 referees to officiate across the Premier League today, Mr. Bramall was the 2nd least experienced.
The decision to disallow Morgan Rogers' goal, which would have given the club a 1-0 lead with 17 minutes remaining in the match, was a major contributing factor to the club not qualifying for the Champions League.
As per the standards that have been established over the course of the season, a decision to whistle early is clearly inconsistent with current refereeing guidelines. VAR exists to ensure that these types of situations receive the scrutiny they deserve. Unfortunately, the technology was not allowed to serve its purpose.
Ultimately, we acknowledge that the outcome for us will not change, but we believe that it is important to address the selection methodology to ensure that high stakes matches are treated as such with regards to officiating and to ensure that the implemented VAR technology is allowed to be effective.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gr0jwJIXYAADJq9?format=jpg&name=large)
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Today, like wolves away, proved that ref’s are cheating ******.
It has been proved that they blow for what they THINK they see, than what they actually see.
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Are we the first team to be playing in three different first class European competitions in consecutive seasons?
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Quite a few teams have managed it in one season.
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Bottom line. We failed to get CL because of our inability to beat Ipswich twice.
Undoubtedly done over by the officials today, but like Palace, come the big occasion we play like a bunch of started rabbits.
Chelsea managed to get Champions League and they did worse with Ipswich so I wouldn't call that specifically the bottom line. After 38 games, the season shows you where you deserve to be and it seemed we deserved 6th.
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Every club has shit or unexpectedly poor results. We also had favourable results that we didn’t expect.
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Today, like wolves away, proved that ref’s are cheating ******.
It has been proved that they blow for what they THINK they see, than what they actually see.
That’s not cheating - it’s incompetence, but not cheating.
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I'm still trying to digest what happened but it's not getting any easier. I mean how did we manage to play so badly against a team that's been Blues all season and had a cup final on Thursday while we had a whole week off. We looked so leggy and they were fresh as a daisy. How? I was shot down on the match thread for daring to say that Watkins was having a stinker but going to say it again. He was shocking. His first touch was appalling. His hold up play was none existent and he looked like he had lead boots on. I'm singling him out because he epitomised our performance. He wasn't the worst though. Both our fullbacks were crap. Cash's absolute brainfart leading to Emis ridiculous Sumo challenge on Hoijlund summed him up. He continually looks to cut back instead of looking forward and he often makes blind passes and crosses. He's got to go. He looked like a Championship player at best. And Unai was found wanting once again. Just like Palace we were completely outplayed and out maneuvered. I love the guy but he gets a 2 out of 10 today.
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Club statement on letter written to PGMOL. https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2025/may/25/club-statement/
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We were terrible today and it’s a real shame, because we didn’t even need to win. We’ll have to play it smart in the transfer market now as we have less leeway.
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One narcissistic twat not doing his job properly is now probably the difference between our whole Summer plans.
More importantly though I don't know how one club can be so mentally against playing in Manchester, and how a brilliant manager is so useless up against a 3-4-3.
Nailed it
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Unai Emery: "He whistled. He needed to have it under his control, waiting for VAR. I believe in VAR. I spoke with the referee and he knows his mistake. I make mistakes, my players and the referees. We have to accept it. I believe in VAR."
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I think we have every right to be fuming about it. It was gross incompetence.
English Football is a £multi-billion industry, managed like a fucking stag do whip. Whilst we shouldnt have needed it, and we played incredibly poorly, you can also look at a narrative that:
- We had to sell 3 key players to overcome FFP rules - despite not being in any debt
- This impacted our ability to compete all season - but managed to go 1 nil up with 17 minutes left to qualify for champions league football - which would have almost certainly have ensured Champions League football and an additional 50+ million. It was then disallowed by something not following the set procedures. An act of gross incompetence in any other profession.
- And now we have to sell other keys players to meet FFP to make up a 50m shortfall despite not being in debt.
I get its a mistake, I get we shat the bed - but you cant have these restrictive rules for financial performance, whilst having such low levels of application of on pitch rules.
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Silver linings from today.
1) the usual loss to that lot keeps that useless fucker Amorim in a job. One result isn’t going to fundamentally fix everything at Man U. Unless they find a way to play us every week.
2) the bloke handling the music at Villa Park can now correctly play the Europa League intro theme. Watch him now play the CL or Conference music for one of our games.
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If our players hadn't played like utterly pathetic ****** today, we wouldn't be talking about a refereeing error.
Absolute frauds to a man today
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If it's the one I'm thinking of they were level to the naked eye but as he was making an attempt to play the ball at most it'd have been a yellow card, which can't be given on review (for some reason). In much the same vein the Diallo foul on Onana was 100% a yellow card but the ref didn't give it so couldn't be checked. Given Diallo then got a yellow 25mins later before going on to score the opener there's a fair argument that he was lucky to be on the pitch to score it.
That only works if in the box and a penalty was also given. If outside the box it is a red card still if a DOGSO. However as I mentioned it might have fallen down the cracks of VAR options as maybe it needs the ref to blow for the foul for it to be reviewed for a red, similar to the FA Cup one last week.
You misunderstand me, I'm not talking double jeopardy here, I'm saying it wasn't enough to be a red card, he made a genuine attempt at the bal land at most was a little clumsy. As it was given offside they didn't really show many angles of it but it might not even have been a foul. I don't think we can have many complaints with that one, or with the Emi sending off.
The decisions I'm not happy with are not booking Diallo for going studs up into Onana, blowing up too early for Rogers 'goal' and giving them a very soft penalty that Diallo clearly played for by dangling out a leg where Maatsen couldn't really do much to avoid it.
Maatsen could have done plenty to avoid it.
https://www.skysports.com/football/video/11095/13374575/manchester-united-2-0-aston-villa-premier-league-highlights
2:30ish - watch it again, explain where else he's supposed to put his foot, he never even looks towards where Diallo's feet are, he's just trying to slow himself so he doesn't barge into him.
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If our players hadn't played like utterly pathetic ****** today, we wouldn't be talking about a refereeing error.
Absolute frauds to a man today
Agreed but we were still in the game at that point no matter how shocking we’d been.
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If our players hadn't played like utterly pathetic ****** today, we wouldn't be talking about a refereeing error.
Absolute frauds to a man today
That’s how I feel.
The players and manager have been handed a ‘get out of jail free’ card. THEY should be held to account for that shitshow.
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when mark goldbridge says the cancelled goal was disgrace and I dont feel good about this being chalked off , you just think how the f@@@ do these refs get a game like that .
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Whilst I appreciate the comments in here that we got what we deserved over the season as a whole as a result of poor performances and late concessions against Bournemouth, Man City and West Ham, as well as 4 points dropped against the second worst team in the division, the fact of the matter is that there we were, albeit being outplayed by a team that finally decided to turn up for a home game, I think we all have to near in mind that we were in the game at 0-0, had begun to string some passes together and looked like we might, just might, get a goal or at least hold on for a draw. The ref's appalling decision for what he could not possibly have been sure of and his subsequent whistle did for us at the end of the day - never mind earlier results - that's not the point. I can understand VAR not overruling the decision if the whistle has affected defenders' ability to defend the resulting goal, but surely they should be able to decide otherwise when the whistle has no effect on the play. Rogers won the ball and struck towards goal with no defender in sight. A change in that rule seems overdue.
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We were robbed on a technicality, he blew the whistle as the ball bounced, a yard from crossing the line, with an empty goal. If he'd blown the whistle after the ball had gone in would his decision have still stood or would VAR been able to intervene?
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when mark goldbridge says the cancelled goal was disgrace and I dont feel good about this being chalked off , you just think how the f@@@ do these refs get a game like that .
I’ll go first…who the fuck is mark goldbridge ?
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Frustrating day. So much thanks for Unai but he does consistently make strange decisions despite a wonderful record
Why not play away as we do at home?
Why play Torres rather than Mings?
Why play Onana and Kamara together when it means we can’t play possession football?
Why play the ball around the back when we aren’t dominating possession?
Why play Asensio when it means Roger’s can’t play in his most effective position?
These are fair questions, we have seen multiple times now Emery failing to get the right selection and tactics when it really matters.
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If our players hadn't played like utterly pathetic ****** today, we wouldn't be talking about a refereeing error.
Absolute frauds to a man today
That’s how I feel.
The players and manager have been handed a ‘get out of jail free’ card. THEY should be held to account for that shitshow.
They’re not stupid, they know it wasn’t good enough. Being held to account is less important than just working out how to do better in future.
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Bottom line. We failed to get CL because of our inability to beat Ipswich twice.
Undoubtedly done over by the officials today, but like Palace, come the big occasion we play like a bunch of started rabbits.
Yes we should have beaten them especially the home game but we have had quite a few single goal wins this year when the opposition could have equalised late on but luckily didn’t so these things balance out
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If our players hadn't played like utterly pathetic ****** today, we wouldn't be talking about a refereeing error.
Absolute frauds to a man today
That’s how I feel.
The players and manager have been handed a ‘get out of jail free’ card. THEY should be held to account for that shitshow.
Absolutely. In many way's this group of ****** have been bailed out by the contrevorsy today.
To turn up and "perform" how they have today in such a big game? Fuck them.
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Whilst I appreciate the comments in here that we got what we deserved over the season as a whole as a result of poor performances and late concessions against Bournemouth, Man City and West Ham, as well as 4 points dropped against the second worst team in the division, the fact of the matter is that there we were, albeit being outplayed by a team that finally decided to turn up for a home game, I think we all have to near in mind that we were in the game at 0-0, had begun to string some passes together and looked like we might, just might, get a goal or at least hold on for a draw. The ref's appalling decision for what he could not possibly have been sure of and his subsequent whistle did for us at the end of the day - never mind earlier results - that's not the point. I can understand VAR not overruling the decision if the whistle has affected defenders' ability to defend the resulting goal, but surely they should be able to decide otherwise when the whistle has no effect on the play. Rogers won the ball and struck towards goal with no defender in sight. A change in that rule seems overdue.
The refs whistle has to be the point at which the game stops, how long after the refs whistle should play continue, 30 seconds a minute ?
It was an appalling decision but you can not change the protocol.
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If our players hadn't played like utterly pathetic ****** today, we wouldn't be talking about a refereeing error.
Absolute frauds to a man today
That’s how I feel.
The players and manager have been handed a ‘get out of jail free’ card. THEY should be held to account for that shitshow.
Absolutely. In many way's this group of ****** have been bailed out by the contrevorsy today.
To turn up and "perform" how they have today in such a big game? Fuck them.
Bit much chaps. You can be disappointed with the performance, but to call the players ****** is too far.
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Club statement on letter written to PGMOL. https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2025/may/25/club-statement/
We knew who the referee was before the game and should have moaned then about the selection process. Yes, it was an error for the Rogers goal, I have little doubt about that, but the referee didn't pick the team, didn't set us up in training all week, didn't give his goalkeeper a suicidal backpass or make Martinez look at the player before he took him out. The referee was wank, sue the FA for the lost revenue that missing out on the Champions League will cost us but the rationale in the letter sounds small time. The decision to disallow the goal was a key moment, but we knew who was referring before we kicked off. Sue them for the shocking decision, not because of the way they select the referee.
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On the bright side, I thought our kit looked nice.
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To call players ****** that have have finished 7th, 4th, 6th and a CL QF at a time when the deck is massively stacked against us is ridiculous.
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On the bright side, I thought our kit looked nice.
Fuck that. Burn it.
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If our players hadn't played like utterly pathetic ****** today, we wouldn't be talking about a refereeing error.
Absolute frauds to a man today
That’s how I feel.
The players and manager have been handed a ‘get out of jail free’ card. THEY should be held to account for that shitshow.
Absolutely. In many way's this group of ****** have been bailed out by the contrevorsy today.
To turn up and "perform" how they have today in such a big game? Fuck them.
Bit much chaps. You can be disappointed with the performance, but to call the players ****** is too far.
[/quotiIf our players hadn't played like utterly pathetic ****** today, we wouldn't be talking about a refereeing error.
Absolute frauds to a man today
That’s how I feel.
The players and manager have been handed a ‘get out of jail free’ card. THEY should be held to account for that shitshow.
Absolutely. In many way's this group of ****** have been bailed out by the contrevorsy today.
To turn up and "perform" how they have today in such a big game? Fuck them.
Bit much chaps. You can be disappointed with the performance, but to call the players ****** is too far.
In general I completely agree. To turn up today and put in that effort though?
No leaders, no fight
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It's insanely frustrating, but the referee's human and made a mistake. I imagine he's feeling pretty shit this evening.
The club's right that he shouldn't have been in that position and a more experienced official was required. The statement seems entirely reasonable.
Anyway, I'm choosing to break the habit of a lifetime and look on the bright side. Already looking forward to winning the Europa League next year.
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Off the top of my head I remember these instances of us being cheated or robbed against these fukkers.
1. Vidic not being sent off at Wembley.
2. Bruno winning a penalty for falling over clutching his leg after stamping on Konsas foot.
3. A goal disallowed in the cup at their place a couple of years ago when they looked for a reason to disallow the goal but couldn't find one so they kept going back until they eventually found something.
4. Today.
I'm sure there's many more and I'd love someone to put a video together that proves what a cheating low life football club they actually are. I hate them with every fibre of my being.
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You are obviously a very nice person Samthemouse.
I hope the ref feels worse than shit tonight.
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Off the top of my head I remember these instances of us being cheated or robbed against these fukkers.
1. Vidic not being sent off at Wembley.
2. Bruno winning a penalty for falling over clutching his leg after stamping on Konsas foot.
3. A goal disallowed in the cup at their place a couple of years ago when they looked for a reason to disallow the goal but couldn't find one so they kept going back until they eventually found something.
4. Today.
I'm sure there's many more and I'd love someone to put a video together that proves what a cheating low life football club they actually are. I hate them with every fibre of my being.
1. We didn't manage a shot on target in that match or the next 2 Wembley days out.
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Fernandes I think it was kicking Konsa at Villa Park, going down and getting a pen. The list is endless.
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It's insanely frustrating, but the referee's human and made a mistake. I imagine he's feeling pretty shit this evening.
The club's right that he shouldn't have been in that position and a more experienced official was required. The statement seems entirely reasonable.
Anyway, I'm choosing to break the habit of a lifetime and look on the bright side. Already looking forward to winning the Europa League next year.
Im sure he is - but it cost us odd 50m. And forces us to change our strategy to have to accomedate for that loss. When the PL interwine it in this way - there own staff cant fuck up like that
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Fernandes I think it was kicking Konsa at Villa Park, going down and getting a pen. The list is endless.
Yeah I put Bruno. It's the same player.
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I hate both of them.
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If it's the one I'm thinking of they were level to the naked eye but as he was making an attempt to play the ball at most it'd have been a yellow card, which can't be given on review (for some reason). In much the same vein the Diallo foul on Onana was 100% a yellow card but the ref didn't give it so couldn't be checked. Given Diallo then got a yellow 25mins later before going on to score the opener there's a fair argument that he was lucky to be on the pitch to score it.
That only works if in the box and a penalty was also given. If outside the box it is a red card still if a DOGSO. However as I mentioned it might have fallen down the cracks of VAR options as maybe it needs the ref to blow for the foul for it to be reviewed for a red, similar to the FA Cup one last week.
You misunderstand me, I'm not talking double jeopardy here, I'm saying it wasn't enough to be a red card, he made a genuine attempt at the bal land at most was a little clumsy. As it was given offside they didn't really show many angles of it but it might not even have been a foul. I don't think we can have many complaints with that one, or with the Emi sending off.
The decisions I'm not happy with are not booking Diallo for going studs up into Onana, blowing up too early for Rogers 'goal' and giving them a very soft penalty that Diallo clearly played for by dangling out a leg where Maatsen couldn't really do much to avoid it.
Maatsen could have done plenty to avoid it.
https://www.skysports.com/football/video/11095/13374575/manchester-united-2-0-aston-villa-premier-league-highlights
2:30ish - watch it again, explain where else he's supposed to put his foot, he never even looks towards where Diallo's feet are, he's just trying to slow himself so he doesn't barge into him.
Eh, but he should be looking where his feet are, this is elite level football. He shouldn't be getting his foot anywhere near the back of your man's ankle or giving him any excuse to go down. Jockey him and nudge him out to where the ball is going. There isn't even a debate there, it's a blatant foul inside the box on a player that wasn't even in full control of the ball. That's how bad the defending is.
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Off the top of my head I remember these instances of us being cheated or robbed against these fukkers.
1. Vidic not being sent off at Wembley.
2. Bruno winning a penalty for falling over clutching his leg after stamping on Konsas foot.
3. A goal disallowed in the cup at their place a couple of years ago when they looked for a reason to disallow the goal but couldn't find one so they kept going back until they eventually found something.
4. Today.
I'm sure there's many more and I'd love someone to put a video together that proves what a cheating low life football club they actually are. I hate them with every fibre of my being.
1. We didn't manage a shot on target in that match or the next 2 Wembley days out.
That makes it OK does it? And are you sure we played 3 matches at Wembley and never had a shot on target?
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I want Unai to spend the summer studying the 3-4-3 formation and figure out why he always struggles against it.
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I hate both of them.
Me too.
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Fernandes I think it was kicking Konsa at Villa Park, going down and getting a pen. The list is endless.
Yeah I put Bruno. It's the same player.
I only know him as Fernandes or Rat face, sorry.
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Off the top of my head I remember these instances of us being cheated or robbed against these fukkers.
1. Vidic not being sent off at Wembley.
2. Bruno winning a penalty for falling over clutching his leg after stamping on Konsas foot.
3. A goal disallowed in the cup at their place a couple of years ago when they looked for a reason to disallow the goal but couldn't find one so they kept going back until they eventually found something.
4. Today.
I'm sure there's many more and I'd love someone to put a video together that proves what a cheating low life football club they actually are. I hate them with every fibre of my being.
1. We didn't manage a shot on target in that match or the next 2 Wembley days out.
That makes it OK does it? And are you sure we played 3 matches at Wembley and never had a shot on target?
We had three shots on target against Man U in 2010, three on target against Chelsea the same year and yet another three shots on target against Liverpool during our next Wembley trip in 2015.
I'd have thought itbrvilla would have at least remembered three of the shots on target... as they went in.
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Fernandes I think it was kicking Konsa at Villa Park, going down and getting a pen. The list is endless.
Yeah I put Bruno. It's the same player.
I only know him as Fernandes or Rat face, sorry.
We don't talk about Bruno.
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It's insanely frustrating, but the referee's human and made a mistake. I imagine he's feeling pretty shit this evening.
The club's right that he shouldn't have been in that position and a more experienced official was required. The statement seems entirely reasonable.
Anyway, I'm choosing to break the habit of a lifetime and look on the bright side. Already looking forward to winning the Europa League next year.
In most cases I'd agree but this mistake was a lot worse than that. This isn't a 'human error' style judgement call that, with hindsight, he got wrong. This was him either not knowing or forgetting that the guidance in situations like this is to let the move play out and then make a decision. He blew up as Rogers is taking the shot, there's absolutely no reason for him to do that and there is specific guidance to not do it.
The statement is absolutely reasonable in context, we have a legitimate argument that that this could cost us anything between 10-20% of our revenue for next season, if anything we deserve credit for taking the "lets not have this happen again" route.
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Fucking Man Utd. It’s like athletes foot. A couples times a season it rears its ugly head and pisses me off for a few hours.
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It most likely was a heat of the moment mistake, just like Emi's. I reckon both are spending the night thinking "why the fuck did I do that".
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Forget about today basic defending this season has cost us, for example Nottingham Forest away Cash kicks it away and it doesn't matter what happens today we qualify for the Champions league. It's the constant playing ourselves into danger that has cost us this season not what happened today
Basic defending can't exist when you don't have leadership and communication and trust at the back . Every time Emerys pet player Torres plays we revert to benny hill defending and so it was again today . As soon as the team sheets out we all go oh not again , was same v palace at Wembley and here we are again today .
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Off the top of my head I remember these instances of us being cheated or robbed against these fukkers.
1. Vidic not being sent off at Wembley.
2. Bruno winning a penalty for falling over clutching his leg after stamping on Konsas foot.
3. A goal disallowed in the cup at their place a couple of years ago when they looked for a reason to disallow the goal but couldn't find one so they kept going back until they eventually found something.
4. Today.
I'm sure there's many more and I'd love someone to put a video together that proves what a cheating low life football club they actually are. I hate them with every fibre of my being.
Others that come immediately to mind:
• The two games in 20/21 season when Pogba dives in both and wins penalties. Both involving Dougie Luiz I think. Both put them ahead in the games in question.
• Ashley Young diving for them in his first game against us. 2011/12 I think it was.
• the last time we beat them at their place (Hause goal) the penalty they got immediately after we scored was a nothing penalty. Luckily ratface missed.
You can also add that whenever they’re not winning, an inordinate amount of time is added thus allowing them to get their last minute winners or equalizers.
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On the bright side, I thought our kit looked nice.
Its first appearance is in a shit show of a game. I hope we never see it again.
But I know we will. I hate it already.
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It belongs in the bin with the yellow kit that got us knocked out of the cup at Liverpool that time.
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The thing I don't get is, what's the point in having VAR you can't look the referee's decision even if he's blown his whistle?
exactly , they blow the whistle for a goal and then the goal gets chalked off with VAR overturning it , its ridiculous .
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The thing I don't get is, what's the point in having VAR you can't look the referee's decision even if he's blown his whistle?
exactly , they blow the whistle for a goal and then the goal gets chalked off with VAR overturning it , its ridiculous .
Yep, it’s crazy, just bonkers and written by idiots.
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Fucking Man Utd. It’s like athletes foot. A couples times a season it rears its ugly head and pisses me off for a few hours.
Looking on the bright side they're stuck with Amorim now. They haven't qualified for Europe for the first time in donkeys years and their ground is a rat infested dump.
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It belongs in the bin with that yellow kit that got us knocked out of the cup at Liverpool that time.
Yeah where it once , didn't work , set fire to it. Move on .
Agree .
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If the goal happened while the ball was live, VAR can check. The ball was dead today, so VAR can't. Continually blaming VAR when VAR was used correctly is pointless.
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It belongs in the bin with the yellow kit that got us knocked out of the cup at Liverpool that time.
Agreed. One strike and your out.
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Fucking Man Utd. It’s like athletes foot. A couples times a season it rears its ugly head and pisses me off for a few hours.
Looking on the bright side they're stuck with Amorim now. They haven't qualified for Europe for the first time in donkeys years and their ground is a rat infested dump.
I suppose, every silver lining.
How good would it be to see them relegated next year. A season where we might* gain another four to six points.
*might!
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If the goal happened while the ball was live, VAR can check. The ball was dead today, so VAR can't. Continually blaming VAR when VAR was used correctly is pointless.
But you can say that VAR could be used differently.
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You can, but that's not what a lot are doing.
And as said before, play to the whistle is the most basic thing in football. How long after the whistle do you play for? How do you deal with someone stopping because of the whistle.
The rule on this is fine, the execution by the ref is the error, not the system. For once.
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It belongs in the bin with the yellow kit that got us knocked out of the cup at Liverpool that time.
Agreed. One strike and your out.
We'd be changing kits a lot each season.
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It belongs in the bin with the yellow kit that got us knocked out of the cup at Liverpool that time.
Agreed. One strike and your out.
We'd be changing kits a lot each season.
We end up finding luckier kits and win loads of trophies, the club gets to make even more money selling twenty new outfits a year. Win, win.
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You can, but that's not what a lot are doing.
And as said before, play to the whistle is the most basic thing in football. How long after the whistle do you play for? How do you deal with someone stopping because of the whistle.
The rule on this is fine, the execution by the ref is the error, not the system. For once.
Play to 10 seconds after the whistle. Everyone count in your head. I'm going Mississippis.
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For all those saying, “the ref made a mistake/fucked up, but so did Emery/Cash/Martinez, etc.”
With respect, that is true, but the difference is that a much vaunted and expensive system exists to correct obvious mistakes. VAR is not flawed, how it is used is $hit.
Every game sees multiple occasions where the match officials, including the VAR officials ignore ignore certain protocols or guidance or straight up ignore the laws of the game for the sake of the “entertainment/occasion”.
Put simply, if the ref was advised to go to the pitch side monitor and he changed his decision and awarded the Rogers ‘goal’, does anyone think there would be 5% of the condemnation or outrage that there has been?
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Yes because they'd have broken a rule rather than make a mistake.
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Agreed, and at risk of repeating myself far too many times, the outrage isn't because he gave a foul incorrectly, it's that he did it as Rogers was shooting meaning there was no options to review it. He's undermined the entire purpose of VAR and I have no idea why.
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Agreed, and at risk of repeating myself far too many times, the outrage isn't because he gave a foul incorrectly, it's that he did it as Rogers was shooting meaning there was no options to review it. He's undermined the entire purpose of VAR and I have no idea why.
It’s because he’s cocked up and I suspect experience probably played a bit part.
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You can, but that's not what a lot are doing.
And as said before, play to the whistle is the most basic thing in football. How long after the whistle do you play for? How do you deal with someone stopping because of the whistle.
The rule on this is fine, the execution by the ref is the error, not the system. For once.
The length of time is clearly only a second or two - because we are talking amount the 'moments' after the whistle being blown where no one has had time to stop, not the attackers, or defenders, the ball is on its way and no one is getting to it whether the whistle has gone or not.
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Agreed, and at risk of repeating myself far too many times, the outrage isn't because he gave a foul incorrectly, it's that he did it as Rogers was shooting meaning there was no options to review it. He's undermined the entire purpose of VAR and I have no idea why.
It’s because he’s cocked up and I suspect experience probably played a bit part.
Yes, probably, which is exactly the point the club made, but according to some that's just petty.
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For all those saying, “the ref made a mistake/fucked up, but so did Emery/Cash/Martinez, etc.”
With respect, that is true, but the difference is that a much vaunted and expensive system exists to correct obvious mistakes. VAR is not flawed, how it is used is $hit.
Every game sees multiple occasions where the match officials, including the VAR officials ignore ignore certain protocols or guidance or straight up ignore the laws of the game for the sake of the “entertainment/occasion”.
Put simply, if the ref was advised to go to the pitch side monitor and he changed his decision and awarded the Rogers ‘goal’, does anyone think there would be 5% of the condemnation or outrage that there has been?
Ultimtaley best appraoch is for the referee to not fuck up, and refuse to follow procedure, Then they and VAR can do what the fuck they like
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It's massively frustrating, and shouldn't have happened. But none of us have experienced that pressure of making a split second decision in a massive game. Emi is far more experienced but also fucked up in the heat of the moment. He shouldn't have made a challenge akin to Boris Johnson in that charity match.
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You can, but that's not what a lot are doing.
And as said before, play to the whistle is the most basic thing in football. How long after the whistle do you play for? How do you deal with someone stopping because of the whistle.
The rule on this is fine, the execution by the ref is the error, not the system. For once.
The length of time is clearly only a second or two - because we are talking amount the 'moments' after the whistle being blown where no one has had time to stop, not the attackers, or defenders, the ball is on its way and no one is getting to it whether the whistle has gone or not.
All of that is true, and the VAR still made the correct and only decision that they could make.
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Yes because they'd have broken a rule rather than make a mistake.
Sorry, not sure I understand your point.
My post was that some people are making the point ‘everyone makes mistakes, players, coaches, and officials’ and rather than the consequence of mistakes are different (poor selection impacting performance vs. poor decision meaning a gift to the opposition vs. changing the outcome of the game) I was saying that VAR should only exist to support match officials get to the right outcome.
But, it doesn’t, it diminishes the reputation of match officials by backing on field decisions at the expense of getting to the right outcome.
And I think ‘outcome’ is more relevant than ‘decision’ as we all want ‘natural justice’ (for the want of a better description) over some pedantic application of rules that don’t help because they can never adequately cover every situation in a football game.
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It's massively frustrating, and shouldn't have happened. But none of us have experienced that pressure of making a split second decision in a massive game. Emi is far more experienced but also fucked up in the heat of the moment. He shouldn't have made a challenge akin to Boris Johnson in that charity match.
I agree, but the assistance he has to help with those decisions relies on him not blowing up early. If he'd let it go and then given a foul a few seconds later no one would be blaming him (and the discussion would be about VAR allowing/disallowing the goal). Both the ref and Emi made poor split second decisions but the difference is that Emi didn't have a backup option.
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Yes because they'd have broken a rule rather than make a mistake.
Sorry, not sure I understand your point.
My post was that some people are making the point ‘everyone makes mistakes, players, coaches, and officials’ and rather than the consequence of mistakes are different (poor selection impacting performance vs. poor decision meaning a gift to the opposition vs. changing the outcome of the game) I was saying that VAR should only exist to support match officials get to the right outcome.
But, it doesn’t, it diminishes the reputation of match officials by backing on field decisions at the expense of getting to the right outcome.
And I think ‘outcome’ is more relevant than ‘decision’ as we all want ‘natural justice’ (for the want of a better description) over some pedantic application of rules that don’t help because they can never adequately cover every situation in a football game.
It didn't "back" anything in that decision. It wasn't given the opportunity to have a say one way or the other.
That's the whole issue.
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It's massively frustrating, and shouldn't have happened. But none of us have experienced that pressure of making a split second decision in a massive game. Emi is far more experienced but also fucked up in the heat of the moment. He shouldn't have made a challenge akin to Boris Johnson in that charity match.
But he didnt need to make the decision - thats the point. Theres a whole backup system to prevent him from having to make split second decisions like that.
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It's massively frustrating, and shouldn't have happened. But none of us have experienced that pressure of making a split second decision in a massive game. Emi is far more experienced but also fucked up in the heat of the moment. He shouldn't have made a challenge akin to Boris Johnson in that charity match.
But he didnt need to make the decision - thats the point. Theres a whole backup system to prevent him from having to make split second decisions like that.
I think everyone is one hundred percent on the same page with that.
Unless I've misunderstood, the disagreement is whether you think the game stopping is a reason that you can't just give the goal anyway because it should have been a goal.
I mean, obviously it is a reason you can't give it. Because the game has stopped.
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Is the decision not to make a decision, actually a decision?
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Sorry, but an inexperienced referee is getting hammered for a poor decision, but I think many are missing a more important point.
In every game, some ‘latitude’ or ‘flexibility’ is applied, and for the majority of the time it improves the spectacle/the game.
The issue for me is that none of the officials, on field or VAR, said “hold on, take a moment, that might a goal”. If that happens, no-one worries if the ref goes to the monitor and changes his decision.
Instead, they (presumably) decide we have a novice here, we need to back him up.
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They couldn't do any of that, the decision was made from the moment he blew his whistle.
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An era defining no show - against a record breaking bag of bollocks - this week was the first time since 1976 since a Manchester United player wasn’t named in an England squad .
We never laid of glove on them - too negative from minute 1.
They’ll be in Dubai by the time I post this - I’ll be trying to work out how I get to Lithuania - wankers
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The issue for me is that none of the officials, on field or VAR, said “hold on, take a moment, that might a goal”. If that happens, no-one worries if the ref goes to the monitor and changes his decision.
I completely guarantee that if they had allowed a goal that was scored while the game was stopped, if would be a much bigger story than it currently is.
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It's massively frustrating, and shouldn't have happened. But none of us have experienced that pressure of making a split second decision in a massive game. Emi is far more experienced but also fucked up in the heat of the moment. He shouldn't have made a challenge akin to Boris Johnson in that charity match.
But he didnt need to make the decision - thats the point. Theres a whole backup system to prevent him from having to make split second decisions like that.
I think everyone is one hundred percent on the same page with that.
Unless I've misunderstood, the disagreement is whether you think the game stopping is a reason that you can't just give the goal anyway because it should have been a goal.
I mean, obviously it is a reason you can't give it. Because the game has stopped.
He whilsted - so it cant be a goal and Im ok with that. But the whistle shouldnt have happened. I think the ruiles are fine - they just werent applied correctly. Those fine calls are whats VAR is there for but the referee decided not to follow the process.
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They’ll be in Dubai by the time I post this - I’ll be trying to work out how I get to Lithuania - wankers
I'd wait to see if we draw Kauno Žalgiris before making plans.
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Guys , we didn't turn up , forget the one ref decision, we should have been 0-2 by HT and 0-3 before that. We were shit today . Please stop blaming the ref .
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He whilsted - so it cant be a goal and Im ok with that. But the whistle shouldnt have happened.
Indeed. But I don't think anyone on here (or anywhere, for that matter) is saying anything different to that.
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He whilsted - so it cant be a goal and Im ok with that. But the whistle shouldnt have happened.
Indeed. But I don't think anyone on here (or anywhere, for that matter) is saying anything different to that.
Sorry - what was the question :-)
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Guys , we didn't turn up , forget the one ref decision, we should have been 0-2 by HT and 0-3 before that. We were shit today . Please stop blaming the ref .
Yeah we were shit, but we should have taken the lead, against the run of play, which would have happened were it not for a calamitous piece of referring.
Both of those things can be true, and are.
Dreadful performance.
Robbed of potential underservedly getting something from the match by the referee.
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I still maintain we'd have been better off today if Yanited had won their final on Wednesday.
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I still maintain we'd have been better off today if Yanited had won their final on Wednesday.
This is absolutely true. As awful as we were today, they were better than they’ve been all season because they needed to be today after coming out of the season with nothing but a near relegation. If they’d won in the week, they wouldn’t have cared today.
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Guys , we didn't turn up , forget the one ref decision, we should have been 0-2 by HT and 0-3 before that. We were shit today . Please stop blaming the ref .
It can be a “both-and”. We were pathetic, but it was 0-0 despite our crappiness and if we go up 1-0, I think they fold or, at the very least, we hold on to a draw. Certainly, the game changes at 1-0; hard to deny that.
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I still maintain we'd have been better off today if Yanited had won their final on Wednesday.
Nah, they were forced by the angry mob into a spiral of hatred and recrimination.
Meanwhile Spurs with their confidence up, swept along on a crest of a wave to a lovely...convincing defeat.
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Another game where we simply bottled it. Fuck all the talk of the goal that wasn’t. We could have been 6 or 7 down by then against a team fighting relegation
Really pissed off
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They’ll be in Dubai by the time I post this - I’ll be trying to work out how I get to Lithuania - wankers
I'd wait to see if we draw Kauno Žalgiris before making plans.
It's massively frustrating, and shouldn't have happened. But none of us have experienced that pressure of making a split second decision in a massive game. Emi is far more experienced but also fucked up in the heat of the moment. He shouldn't have made a challenge akin to Boris Johnson in that charity match.
But he didnt need to make the decision - thats the point. Theres a whole backup system to prevent him from having to make split second decisions like that.
I think everyone is one hundred percent on the same page with that.
Unless I've misunderstood, the disagreement is whether you think the game stopping is a reason that you can't just give the goal anyway because it should have been a goal.
I mean, obviously it is a reason you can't give it. Because the game has stopped.
He whilsted - so it cant be a goal and Im ok with that. But the whistle shouldnt have happened. I think the ruiles are fine - they just werent applied correctly. Those fine calls are whats VAR is there for but the referee decided not to follow the process.
Did he though? OK, the replays show the referee with his whistle in his mouth. It's like trying to deduce when the ball is actually played with offside decisions. One thing's for certain, the goal stands the other way round.
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Guys , we didn't turn up , forget the one ref decision, we should have been 0-2 by HT and 0-3 before that. We were shit today . Please stop blaming the ref .
Totally irrelevant to the point being discussed. It's not our fault they couldn't take their chances.
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It's possible to think that we played badly and that the referee was useless. It's not an "either/or".
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Guys , we didn't turn up , forget the one ref decision, we should have been 0-2 by HT and 0-3 before that. We were shit today . Please stop blaming the ref .
Yeah we were shit, but we should have taken the lead, against the run of play, which would have happened were it not for a calamitous piece of referring.
Both of those things can be true, and are.
Dreadful performance.
Robbed of potential underservedly getting something from the match by the referee.
Did you not watch the first half . We were shit
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It's possible to think that we played badly and that the referee was useless. It's not an "either/or".
Correct.
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Guys , we didn't turn up , forget the one ref decision, we should have been 0-2 by HT and 0-3 before that. We were shit today . Please stop blaming the ref .
Yeah we were shit, but we should have taken the lead, against the run of play, which would have happened were it not for a calamitous piece of referring.
Both of those things can be true, and are.
Dreadful performance.
Robbed of potential underservedly getting something from the match by the referee.
Did you not watch the first half . We were shit
How does being shit in the first half stop us from scoring a legitimate goal in the second?
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Goal stands maybe their players go to shit and the crowd turns because they are 1 down to 10 men with 20 to go. We wouldn't be the first side in history to get an undeserved result, the cliche is it's actually a sign of a good side.
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Guys , we didn't turn up , forget the one ref decision, we should have been 0-2 by HT and 0-3 before that. We were shit today . Please stop blaming the ref .
Yeah we were shit, but we should have taken the lead, against the run of play, which would have happened were it not for a calamitous piece of referring.
Both of those things can be true, and are.
Dreadful performance.
Robbed of potential underservedly getting something from the match by the referee.
Did you not watch the first half . We were shit
Did you even read my post?
Yes, Tim, I did, that's why i said "dreadful performance". It was fucking awful.
I don' t know how I could have made it clearer - both things are possible at the same time. We were fucking awful. We scored a legitimate, if underserved, goal, which was ruled out.
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I'm getting hectored by a Manure fan - wake up Villa you are LOSERS and need to win something after 30 years next year!!!!
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I'm getting hectored by a Manure fan
He's texting you in Irish?
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How we deserved jack shit because we were shit
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Newcastle bottled a home game against Everton to achieve the Champions League. It happens to other teams too.
Irrespective of how we played up to Rogers goal, it was still 0-0. We'll never know how the game would have played out if we'd taken the lead. We could have won 1-0 or lost 5-1. Instead an inexperienced ref made his only error in the 90 mins by not following the protocol to allow the game to continue. He rushed to make a subjective decision that never needed to made, giving himself no backup when he got it wrong.
And it's most likely cost us £50m+.
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From the kick off all my fears were justified, they passed the ball back and we stood like statues on the half way line, no press,and i thought then, we're in trouble. This has been a feature throughout the season, we have lost the ability to attack at pace. Rogers being played out of positition has left him a passenger for most games, Mings having shown what a leader on the pitch he is gets overlooked. Emery has done wonders for the club and I love his passion but this slow build up shit is killing me.
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As an aside, the hot takes on social media have made it abundantly clear that people who don't support the Villa are fucking idiots.
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From the kick off all my fears were justified, they passed the ball back and we stood like statues on the half way line, no press,and i thought then, we're in trouble. This has been a feature throughout the season, we have lost the ability to attack at pace. Rogers being played out of positition has left him a passenger for most games, Mings having shown what a leader on the pitch he is gets overlooked. Emery has done wonders for the club and I love his passion but this slow build up shit is killing me.
Yep , atrocious and as bad as anything Gerrard ever served up . Leaving Mings out has killed the season off on all fronts . Idiotic .
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I still maintain we'd have been better off today if Yanited had won their final on Wednesday.
This is absolutely true. As awful as we were today, they were better than they’ve been all season because they needed to be today after coming out of the season with nothing but a near relegation. If they’d won in the week, they wouldn’t have cared today.
When any team sits off you as much as we did early on it will give you confidence.
Going on the front foot and looking for a knockout early blow isn't always the way to go, especially on the road.
But against a team low on confidence anyway and just coming off a humiliating cup final defeat mid week it has to be the way to go, Shirley.
I've heard it argued earlier in the season that the tepid slowly slowly walking football was deliberate. And designed with a long season in mind. But what else were we conserving our energy for today.
Last season and this we are better personnel-wise than that mob 1-11. But you would never have guessed it with our approach to the game.
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If you’re going to have technology to fix mistakes then allow it to fix mistakes. Not choose when it can or cannot fix mistakes. We’ve seen countless times where the play goes on and is brought back by VAR to correct something missed by the on field officials. I get the rules are if the whistle blows it’s over. But that needn’t be the case if they truly want correct errors. Doesn’t resolve things today but VAR is overbearing when it doesn’t need to be and underused in other instances. And I still contend it should be used only on a challenge basis by the manager. Maybe 2 per game. Otherwise let offsides be semi automated and the rest down to on field refs.
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How we deserved jack shit because we were shit
You shouldn't have given a Man Utd fan your number.
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As an aside, the hot takes on social media have made it abundantly clear that people who don't support the Villa post about football on social media are fucking idiots.
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It's possible to think that we played badly and that the referee was useless. It's not an "either/or".
Correct.
Yes.
Both are true.
Not sure what I am most angry about.
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What disturbed me the most was the total lack of energy, you would have thought we were playing a pre-season practise game. The few times we did attack their defence they looked vulnerable. JM in particular looked out of sorts, when he's on he drags the rest with him.
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Just as Glasner did a number on us, it looks like Amorin using a similar system did the same. We were unable to cope with their press. Add to that some absolutely awful performances fromtoo many players ( Cash Maatsen Watkins)We had no out ball, Watkins was dominated by Maguire and you can not afford to have Rogers and Asensio together in a high energy game as neither provides any defensive cover.
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Guys , we didn't turn up , forget the one ref decision, we should have been 0-2 by HT and 0-3 before that. We were shit today . Please stop blaming the ref .
Yeah we were shit, but we should have taken the lead, against the run of play, which would have happened were it not for a calamitous piece of referring.
Both of those things can be true, and are.
Dreadful performance.
Robbed of potential underservedly getting something from the match by the referee.
Did you not watch the first half . We were shit
Yeah we were and no one is saying any different. You're stating the bleeding obvious. But it wouldn't be the first time a team has played crap and won. We were denied that opportunity by a calamitous piece of refereeing. It's Old Trafford the place where calamitous refereeing decisions are common especially when we play there. The point is it's always them that gain the benefit from such decisions.
Today's conversation could well have been about their wastefulnes in front of goal and how good teams just "find a way to win" But it's not. Today's conversation not just amongst us but amongst every media commentator is about an appalling mistake by a novice referee who shouldn't of been in charge in the first place.
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Just as Glasner did a number on us, it looks like Amorin using a similar system did the same. We were unable to cope with their press. Add to that some absolutely awful performances fromtoo many players ( Cash Maatsen Watkins)We had no out ball, Watkins was dominated by Maguire and you can not afford to have Rogers and Asensio together in a high energy game as neither provides any defensive cover.
I agree. It looks like Glasner has worked out a gameplan to totally nullify our game and Amorim followed the blueprint. It's what happens in the PL.
The surprising thing is that a coach as good as Unai Emery seems to have a blind spot to it and set up the team to walk straight into the same trap that Glasner has set against us three times now.
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I felt a lot worse the morning after the Palace semi final. I’ll take some comfort in that.
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The goal feels like the Zapruder film.
Absolutely awful performance, really timid and Martinez decision to do what he did maybe spoke of some sort of collective failure. As I can't fathom a bloke that's won everything internationally doing what he did. Especially given who the Man United player was.
Too many poor performances and we missed Tielemans badly for control. Knocking down balls Fat Head's throat all game with long balls. Having Maatsen on but never really having enough of the ball to utilise him in an overload. Watkins not doing enough to pull them out of position. Cash checking back to help check us out with that back pass. Just poor.
But goals change games. And we can all do the "38 game season/not good enough" as if you're pretending you're being interviewed for Match of the Day. But it came down to goal difference, I don't think it ever has before. Losing 2 less and winning 1 less against a side above us.
17 minutes from the end of a season we score a perfectly good goal. To wake us up? Get us nice and solid? Change the performance? Maybe catch them on the break again? Maybe break them with "we've actually played well and we're still losing?" Maybe get them thinking about how much they don't want a 12 flight after this? A goal to probably get us a win or a draw at least. 17 minutes, despite everything on the day, for the entire season.
Goals change games, that goal changed a season. For all the "if only we'd done X at Y" which ignores all the "we did A and B at C to even be there" 17 minutes from time, at Old Trafford, 1 nil up needing 1 point but actually having 3.
Maybe this will be a Fulham 2018 moment if we can break the hoodoo and win it in Istanbul.
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I felt a lot worse the morning after the Palace semi final. I’ll take some comfort in that.
Selfish pr#ck. I don't.
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Is there any sort of man city points deduction we can pray for?
Well the verdict is due any day. Whether the punishment will be retrospective or not, who knows. It should be.
Would be a very appropriate outcome.
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Just had a slow-mo look at our disallowed goal.The ref only starts to whistle as the ball leaves Morgan's boot. The United defenders were not affected by the whistle to affect the ball going into the net.
And the stream i was watching had the var screen then come up but was then obviously quickly cancelled .
I'm more fuming about this now than in real time.
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Just had a slow-mo look at our disallowed goal.The ref only starts to whistle as the ball leaves Morgan's boot. The United defenders were not affected by the whistle to affect the ball going into the net.
And the stream i was watching had the var screen then come up but was then obviously quickly cancelled .
I'm more fuming about this now than in real time.
Me too. The biggest factor for me is the referee's position. He's 30 yards from the incident and Roger's body is preventing him getting a proper view of it too. He simply had to let play carry on and let var sort it out. He guessed and that is unforgivable when he knows full well that there is technology in play that means referee's do not have to guess anything. Fuming doesn't even come close to how I feel this morning.
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The goal feels like the Zapruder film.
Absolutely awful performance, really timid and Martinez decision to do what he did maybe spoke of some sort of collective failure. As I can't fathom a bloke that's won everything internationally doing what he did. Especially given who the Man United player was.
Too many poor performances and we missed Tielemans badly for control. Knocking down balls Fat Head's throat all game with long balls. Having Maatsen on but never really having enough of the ball to utilise him in an overload. Watkins not doing enough to pull them out of position. Cash checking back to help check us out with that back pass. Just poor.
But goals change games. And we can all do the "38 game season/not good enough" as if you're pretending you're being interviewed for Match of the Day. But it came down to goal difference, I don't think it ever has before. Losing 2 less and winning 1 less against a side above us.
17 minutes from the end of a season we score a perfectly good goal. To wake us up? Get us nice and solid? Change the performance? Maybe catch them on the break again? Maybe break them with "we've actually played well and we're still losing?" Maybe get them thinking about how much they don't want a 12 flight after this? A goal to probably get us a win or a draw at least. 17 minutes, despite everything on the day, for the entire season.
Goals change games, that goal changed a season. For all the "if only we'd done X at Y" which ignores all the "we did A and B at C to even be there" 17 minutes from time, at Old Trafford, 1 nil up needing 1 point but actually having 3.
Maybe this will be a Fulham 2018 moment if we can break the hoodoo and win it in Istanbul.
Yes; you capture my thoughts well here.
Forget the referee's cock-up; ignore the confidence that flowed through the opponents as the game wore on ... we set up poorly for this game against a team that crumbles under a high press. We demonstrated zero appreciation of the need to score early. Some of our players were delinquent (Martinez being one).
But the game away at Citeh, the draws against Ipswich, the draws vs Wham, Brighton, Bournemouth and Manure at home ... these were the games that meant we were left with a shit-or-bust last game.
Movin' on ...
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That was a shocking performance.
0/10 for all including Emery.
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I felt a lot worse the morning after the Palace semi final. I’ll take some comfort in that.
Selfish pr#ck. I don't.
Me neither. Today feels far worse.
It’s been a long time since I’ve been awake since 4am due to Villa. As a 60 year old I’ve normally more important things to keep me awake. But not today
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The goal feels like the Zapruder film.
Absolutely awful performance, really timid and Martinez decision to do what he did maybe spoke of some sort of collective failure. As I can't fathom a bloke that's won everything internationally doing what he did. Especially given who the Man United player was.
Too many poor performances and we missed Tielemans badly for control. Knocking down balls Fat Head's throat all game with long balls. Having Maatsen on but never really having enough of the ball to utilise him in an overload. Watkins not doing enough to pull them out of position. Cash checking back to help check us out with that back pass. Just poor.
But goals change games. And we can all do the "38 game season/not good enough" as if you're pretending you're being interviewed for Match of the Day. But it came down to goal difference, I don't think it ever has before. Losing 2 less and winning 1 less against a side above us.
17 minutes from the end of a season we score a perfectly good goal. To wake us up? Get us nice and solid? Change the performance? Maybe catch them on the break again? Maybe break them with "we've actually played well and we're still losing?" Maybe get them thinking about how much they don't want a 12 flight after this? A goal to probably get us a win or a draw at least. 17 minutes, despite everything on the day, for the entire season.
Goals change games, that goal changed a season. For all the "if only we'd done X at Y" which ignores all the "we did A and B at C to even be there" 17 minutes from time, at Old Trafford, 1 nil up needing 1 point but actually having 3.
Maybe this will be a Fulham 2018 moment if we can break the hoodoo and win it in Istanbul.
Yes; you capture my thoughts well here.
Forget the referee's cock-up; ignore the confidence that flowed through the opponents as the game wore on ... we set up poorly for this game against a team that crumbles under a high press. We demonstrated zero appreciation of the need to score early. Some of our players were delinquent (Martinez being one).
But the game away at Citeh, the draws against Ipswich, the draws vs Leicester, Brighton, Bournemouth and Manure at home ... these were the games that meant we were left with a shit-or-bust last game.
Movin' on ...
Uep and dropping 9 points from winning positions.
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That was a shocking performance.
0/10 for all including Emery.
Emery's villa record against ManUre is pretty shocking , he's been unable to lift the curse.
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3 massive games, Wembley, Citeh away and today where we haven’t been at the races. That is Unai plus the players. Slow, ponderous with no press or energy. Not playing Rogers in the middle or on the left has proved costly and not using Mings from a leadership perspective a mistake imo. Notwithstanding Emi’s headloss and the officials fuck up we finished with 2 points less than last season when competing in the Champions League is an achievement. I just hope the financial impact is manageable.
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I think it is interesting how we focus on a single mistake in the game as being the defining moment. The ref fucked up in that split second. But so did Cash in his split second. So did Emi in his. So did a host of United players when the ball was pinging around our box. The game was error strewn from start to finish. No single error (the refs) was more decisive than another.
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They’re all a bunch of wankers.
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Just as Glasner did a number on us, it looks like Amorin using a similar system did the same. We were unable to cope with their press. Add to that some absolutely awful performances fromtoo many players ( Cash Maatsen Watkins)We had no out ball, Watkins was dominated by Maguire and you can not afford to have Rogers and Asensio together in a high energy game as neither provides any defensive cover.
I agree. It looks like Glasner has worked out a gameplan to totally nullify our game and Amorim followed the blueprint. It's what happens in the PL.
The surprising thing is that a coach as good as Unai Emery seems to have a blind spot to it and set up the team to walk straight into the same trap that Glasner has set against us three times now.
He has a few blind spots, Cash Torres first on the team sheet. Rogers as a right winger and inexhaustible . Not playing Mings trying to shoehorn Rogers and Asensio into the team. Not noticing when Maatsen is running around like he is being chased by a wasp and Watkins like a puppy chasing a balloon.
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Fumble aside , Did we muster a single save from their rookie keeper , abject performance it really was , ending the season on a whimper and feels like the end of an era has closed sadly .
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We needed to play well and we didn't. As night follows day the 50/50 reffing decisions will never go for you in Old Trafford, that is an absolute given and because of this we needed to play them off the pitch early and the team bottled it. Thought they just had to turn up for the three points. Hopefully it's another lesson learned for next season. We need to fight for every game. The right hand side of the team needs a major overhaul this summer.
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Fumble aside , Did we muster a single save from their rookie keeper , abject performance it really was , ending the season on a whimper and feels like the end of an era has closed sadly .
Think it took until injury time to have a shot on target, pathetic really.
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It was a dreadful performance, but if the correct decision is made. We’re 1-0 up against a fragile side. I suspect they don’t come back. All very frustrating.
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I’m not convinced we would have got a result even if the goal had stood
We were playing at Old Trafford where we’re bottle jobs, we were two nil up last season at half-time Still managed to lose 3-2 and that was with 11 men
anyone thinking we get the result if that goal stands hasn’t been looking at the history between these two clubs over the last 30 years, it’s unbelievable, truly unbelievable shit that we’ve took from them, we lose when we play badly we lose when we play well if they need a helping hand they always get it from the ref
I was there in the cup game when they went back about five phases to disallow a goal from Mcginn
I was also there when that gurning twat scored a last-minute goal, there’s many many other examples of how we fucked up against Man Utd,
Even this season at home they dragged us down to their level to produce the worst game We’ve seen this season at Villa Park and as usual we couldn’t beat them.
So anyone thinking we could hold out against them at Old Trafford with 10 men is it going against 95% of everything that’s happened when we play them,
I said before this game it’s a mentality thing, it’s still there, it’s not been sorted we’ll keep losing until it is
Maybe it never will in my lifetime
Yes the Ref didn’t help by not allowing the goal, but we’d have probably bottled it anyway, because that’s what we’ve always done against them
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As others have said, it was a bit like the Palace game. It also reminded me a bit like their final against Spurs. On paper, the Spurs midfield was way better but like yesterday, you wouldn't have noticed. The difference was Spurs got the break and kept them out.
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I’m not convinced we would have got a result even if the goal had stood
Would have been nice to get the chance though!
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I’m not convinced we would have got a result even if the goal had stood
Would have been nice to get the chance though!
Of course it would
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I was too nervous to watch it, as good as we’ve been in the Emery era there is still a nagging feeling that in the do or die games we will bottle it. The referees mistake was clear but we shouldn’t have been in the position where it came down to that, 99/100 times the keeper picks it up, should we really be relying on a gift like that on top of Newcastle losing at home?
Another L without Mings too, it was always going to be a nervy occasion and we needed strong leadership. That one is on Unai I’m afraid.
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That was a shocking performance.
0/10 for all including Emery.
Emery's villa record against ManUre is pretty shocking , he's been unable to lift the curse.
Literally beat them in his first game.
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That was a shocking performance.
0/10 for all including Emery.
Emery's villa record against ManUre is pretty shocking , he's been unable to lift the curse.
Literally beat them in his first game.
Probably didn’t realise there was a curse then though
He soon caught on
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I was too nervous to watch it, as good as we’ve been in the Emery era there is still a nagging feeling that in the do or die games we will bottle it. The referees mistake was clear but we shouldn’t have been in the position where it came down to that, 99/100 times the keeper picks it up, should we really be relying on a gift like that on top of Newcastle losing at home?
Another L without Mings too, it was always going to be a nervy occasion and we needed strong leadership. That one is on Unai I’m afraid.
Especially after Emi getting sent off, we needed Mings’ leadership at the back.
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I was too nervous to watch it, as good as we’ve been in the Emery era there is still a nagging feeling that in the do or die games we will bottle it. The referees mistake was clear but we shouldn’t have been in the position where it came down to that, 99/100 times the keeper picks it up, should we really be relying on a gift like that on top of Newcastle losing at home?
Another L without Mings too, it was always going to be a nervy occasion and we needed strong leadership. That one is on Unai I’m afraid.
Especially after Emi getting sent off, we needed Mings’ leadership at the back.
We haven’t had Mings at the back for the last few games and we won them all
I’m not denying his leadership qualities, but he’s also liable for a brain fart like everybody else in the back line,
He literally picked the ball up in the box at club Bruges and gave them a penalty ffs
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I really don’t understand the logic of - if we had won all our other games we wouldn’t have needed to win today.
The fact of the matter is we were fucked over by a referee decision that shouldn’t have happened. How often do we see the other teams around scrap a win despite playing rubbish.
Well we nearly did it but through no fault of our own it didn’t count. And as a result we’ll be forced to sell players we don’t want to.
I’m just as angry as I was yesterday - of course we should have played better but the fact is we did enough but it didn’t count.
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I was too nervous to watch it, as good as we’ve been in the Emery era there is still a nagging feeling that in the do or die games we will bottle it. The referees mistake was clear but we shouldn’t have been in the position where it came down to that, 99/100 times the keeper picks it up, should we really be relying on a gift like that on top of Newcastle losing at home?
Another L without Mings too, it was always going to be a nervy occasion and we needed strong leadership. That one is on Unai I’m afraid.
Especially after Emi getting sent off, we needed Mings’ leadership at the back.
We haven’t had Mings at the back for the last few games and we won them all
I’m not denying his leadership qualities, but he’s also liable for a brain fart like everybody else in the back line,
He literally picked the ball up in the box at club Bruges and gave them a penalty ffs
Mings played at Bournemouth . And once he was subbed off the keystone cops defending returned
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I was too nervous to watch it, as good as we’ve been in the Emery era there is still a nagging feeling that in the do or die games we will bottle it. The referees mistake was clear but we shouldn’t have been in the position where it came down to that, 99/100 times the keeper picks it up, should we really be relying on a gift like that on top of Newcastle losing at home?
Another L without Mings too, it was always going to be a nervy occasion and we needed strong leadership. That one is on Unai I’m afraid.
Especially after Emi getting sent off, we needed Mings’ leadership at the back.
We haven’t had Mings at the back for the last few games and we won them all
I’m not denying his leadership qualities, but he’s also liable for a brain fart like everybody else in the back line,
He literally picked the ball up in the box at club Bruges and gave them a penalty ffs
Mings played at Bournemouth . And once he was subbed off the keystone cops defending returned
I was too nervous to watch it, as good as we’ve been in the Emery era there is still a nagging feeling that in the do or die games we will bottle it. The referees mistake was clear but we shouldn’t have been in the position where it came down to that, 99/100 times the keeper picks it up, should we really be relying on a gift like that on top of Newcastle losing at home?
Another L without Mings too, it was always going to be a nervy occasion and we needed strong leadership. That one is on Unai I’m afraid.
Especially after Emi getting sent off, we needed Mings’ leadership at the back.
We haven’t had Mings at the back for the last few games and we won them all
I’m not denying his leadership qualities, but he’s also liable for a brain fart like everybody else in the back line,
He literally picked the ball up in the box at club Bruges and gave them a penalty ffs
Mings played at Bournemouth . And once he was subbed off the keystone cops defending returned
I like Mings I’ve got no agenda against him like you have against Torres
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I'd have gone with Mings yesterday personally.
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Fumble aside , Did we muster a single save from their rookie keeper , abject performance it really was , ending the season on a whimper and feels like the end of an era has closed sadly .
It's not the end of an era I don't know why your being so melodramatic. We still have amazing owners and we still have Unai and Monchi in place. We have European football for the third straight season and they're about to expand the stadium to 50,000 for the first time in decades. Yesterday was unbelievably frustrating as was the Semi final but we learn and we move on. We're in a great position and it's certainly not the end of an era.
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I'd have gone with Mings yesterday personally.
Because we lost all the players that didn’t play would’ve been better options
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I'd have gone with Mings and Ramsey over Torres and Asensio
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I'd have gone with Mings yesterday personally.
Because we lost all the players that didn’t play would’ve been better options
I think the Mings v Torres debate has been going for some time and the stats tend to support the idea that we concede less and lose less with Mings in the team.
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I'd have gone with Mings yesterday personally.
Because we lost all the players that didn’t play would’ve been better options
No John, I suggested it in the pre match thread.
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I'd have gone with Mings yesterday personally.
Because we lost all the players that didn’t play would’ve been better options
I think the Mings v Torres debate has been going for some time and the stats tend to support the idea that we concede less and lose less with Mings in the team.
Oh no, don’t get Percy started again
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I'd have gone with Mings yesterday personally.
Because we lost all the players that didn’t play would’ve been better options
No John, I suggested it in the pre match thread.
Fair enough
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I'd have gone with Mings yesterday personally.
Because we lost all the players that didn’t play would’ve been better options
I think the Mings v Torres debate has been going for some time and the stats tend to support the idea that we concede less and lose less with Mings in the team.
Oh no, don’t get Percy started again
Spoilsport. 😅
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But I still say it’s not a team selection thing it’s a mentality thing
I also said that in the pre match thread
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Yes, they shit themselves in the ultimate crunch games and go in to their shells.
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But I still say it’s not a team selection thing it’s a mentality thing
I also said that in the pre match thread
Which obviously includes the mentality of the players selected.
Based on everything I have seen I would take Mings mentality over Torres mentality.
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I was too nervous to watch it, as good as we’ve been in the Emery era there is still a nagging feeling that in the do or die games we will bottle it. The referees mistake was clear but we shouldn’t have been in the position where it came down to that, 99/100 times the keeper picks it up, should we really be relying on a gift like that on top of Newcastle losing at home?
Another L without Mings too, it was always going to be a nervy occasion and we needed strong leadership. That one is on Unai I’m afraid.
Especially after Emi getting sent off, we needed Mings’ leadership at the back.
We haven’t had Mings at the back for the last few games and we won them all
I’m not denying his leadership qualities, but he’s also liable for a brain fart like everybody else in the back line,
He literally picked the ball up in the box at club Bruges and gave them a penalty ffs
Also hardly gave Isak and Evanilson a sniff in two of his last PL games. The bit that irks me is that Torres supposed elite level distribution is fast fading before our eyes. Far from only one yesterday but he was predictably awful. Getting caught in possession like that after half time was diabolical.
After Wembley I just don't get how Emery thought it was a good idea to play Torres ahead of him. Then at half time with 10men and the team hiding, it beggared belief how Mings didn't come on at half time.
We bottled it spectacularly yesterday, reminded me of England v Iceland in the Euros. Complete capitulation.
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I’m not saying we shouldn’t of started with Mings, he might of made the difference although he’s crumbled a few times against Man United in the past like everybody else
It was a capitulation yesterday but I wouldn’t have picked out Torres as the chief culprit I think there are others that can take that accolade.
Obviously those who have the agenda against him every time we lose it’s always on him is not gonna change
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A point. A point would have done it
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Emi goes full Emi, and you never want to go full Emi
That really made me laugh. Someone should get it printed on a T-Shirt and sell them outside the ground.
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A point. A point would have done it
Or goal difference. 8 of our 10 league defeats were by 2 goals or more.
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I'd have gone with Mings yesterday personally.
Because we lost all the players that didn’t play would’ve been better options
I think the Mings v Torres debate has been going for some time and the stats tend to support the idea that we concede less and lose less with Mings in the team.
We qualified for the champions league with Torres there, some really short memories on here.
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I'd have gone with Mings yesterday personally.
Because we lost all the players that didn’t play would’ve been better options
I think the Mings v Torres debate has been going for some time and the stats tend to support the idea that we concede less and lose less with Mings in the team.
We qualified for the champions league with Torres there, some really short memories on here.
Whilst conceding lots of goals but having the ability to outscore teams .
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I'd have gone with Mings yesterday personally.
Because we lost all the players that didn’t play would’ve been better options
I think the Mings v Torres debate has been going for some time and the stats tend to support the idea that we concede less and lose less with Mings in the team.
We qualified for the champions league with Torres there, some really short memories on here.
Whilst conceding lots of goals but having the ability to outscore teams .
Your agenda is obsessive
But you’re an idiot (imo) so it doesn’t matter
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If it’s a mentality thing and we always crumble in the big games. Then how does PSG, Bayern, Newcastle, Man City at home happen. Why didn’t we crumble and lose 5 when 2 down at Arsenal. I don’t get it, were they not big games?
I might be wrong but for me, it’s more we got the tactics wrong yesterday and at Wembley, then struggle to change things when it doesn’t work, more so than we collapse mentally.
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Dermot Gallagher agrees, the goal should have stood. It really is a very poor decision.
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The thing I don't get is, what's the point in having VAR you can't look the referee's decision even if he's blown his whistle?
exactly , they blow the whistle for a goal and then the goal gets chalked off with VAR overturning it , its ridiculous .
We of all fans should know goals can't be looked at if the whistle has been blown before the ball hits the net, or do people have such short memories?
I'm also not sure why people are comparing to goals scored and then the whistle is blown as the goal is scored before the whistle, not after.
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Emi goes full Emi, and you never want to go full Emi
That really made me laugh. Someone should get it printed on a T-Shirt and sell them outside the ground.
Villa Park or the place he ends up at?
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I'd have gone with Mings yesterday personally.
Because we lost all the players that didn’t play would’ve been better options
I think the Mings v Torres debate has been going for some time and the stats tend to support the idea that we concede less and lose less with Mings in the team.
We qualified for the champions league with Torres there, some really short memories on here.
No one is saying we don’t win games with Torres playing, it’s just that we win more with Mings and concede less.
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If it’s a mentality thing and we always crumble in the big games. Then how does PSG, Bayern, Newcastle, Man City at home happen. Why didn’t we crumble and lose 5 when 2 down at Arsenal. I don’t get it, were they not big games?
I might be wrong but for me, it’s more we got the tactics wrong yesterday and at Wembley, then struggle to change things when it doesn’t work, more so than we collapse mentally.
Yes, I think this is absolutely the case.
All managers have their own preferred formation and way of playing, and Emery is obviously no exception.
I'm not convinced they ever change much, save for a few minor tweaks. The clearest tactical adjustment I've seen Emery make recently has entailed instructing Emi to go longer and bypass the opposition's press, as against the Saudis.
But for the most part, every game is approached the same way. Assuming opponents do likewise, it means that certain match-ups are just more likely to go against us. Emery's tactics work well against most sides, but clearly something needs to change when we're up against 3-4-3, as we forfeit all control of proceedings.
The best managers have the flexibility to adapt, and clearly we have an elite manager, so hopefully this will be addressed next season.
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I’m not saying we shouldn’t of started with Mings, he might of made the difference although he’s crumbled a few times against Man United in the past like everybody else
It was a capitulation yesterday but I wouldn’t have picked out Torres as the chief culprit I think there are others that can take that accolade.
Obviously those who have the agenda against him every time we lose it’s always on him is not gonna change
Sure, Mings isn't prime John Terry or anything like it. But he's a leader and we had none yesterday. That's on Emery. He punted on Torres distribution skills being key against a half hearted United press but it was badly misplaced. His distribution skills seem to be fading. Not helped by the ball bouncing off Watkins every time he got it, granted. Not helped by Rogers in the wrong position either but still nowhere near good enough.
Torres wasn't the chief culprit for sure (Id hone in on our midfield two, Onana particularly there, who never showed up) but he was dreadful. I'm not sure that's up for debate either. That mistake he made after half time should have finished us.
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Just had a slow-mo look at our disallowed goal.The ref only starts to whistle as the ball leaves Morgan's boot. The United defenders were not affected by the whistle to affect the ball going into the net.
And the stream i was watching had the var screen then come up but was then obviously quickly cancelled .
I'm more fuming about this now than in real time.
I think VAR just checked when the whistle was blown. But it is ridiculous given the purpose of VAR that they can’t use common sense and say it didn’t affect anything. Bureaucracy and Napoleonic law!
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Posting the link below from another thread. An example of VAR intervening after the whistle was blown … at Old Trafford, in favour of the home team!
https://x.com/jimivillan/status/1926725852374421917?s=48&t=LVxR0Bw9iameEdYaLirmDw
As I said last night, if VAR sends the ref to the monitor to award a goal, there is nowhere near the same reaction. There’s more chance that VAR is credited with getting to the right outcome.
If anyone wants to suggest this is some sort of Karma for the ‘ghost goal’, respectfully, give your head a wobble. UTV
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I feel more pragmatic about everything this morning.
We played really poorly yesterday, thats obvious. Most teams other than the team that wins the league, have a few really poor performances in them per season. Bad timing for us being yesterday. However, we scored a goal that would of put us 1-0 up, massively against the run of play, but so what? It changes everything, it gives us something to hold onto, it was an awful decision bu the ref.
At the end of the day though, two years ago we were bouncing because we qualified for the conference. The Europa league will be fine, we’ll have a better chance of winning it. I know the debate about players we can attract, but it is what it is.
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Paddy Power have paid out on Villa finishing top five, plus all the Rogers first goalscorer, shot on target, etc, markets, if that's any use to anyone.
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Posting the link below from another thread. An example of VAR intervening after the whistle was blown … at Old Trafford, in favour of the home team!
https://x.com/jimivillan/status/1926725852374421917?s=48&t=LVxR0Bw9iameEdYaLirmDw
As I said last night, if VAR sends the ref to the monitor to award a goal, there is nowhere near the same reaction. There’s more chance that VAR is credited with getting to the right outcome.
If anyone wants to suggest this is some sort of Karma for the ‘ghost goal’, respectfully, give your head a wobble. UTV
But that example is still nothing like ours is it. The whistle is blown, the ball is dead. Anything before the whistle can be reviewed if it comes under the remit of VAR, anything afterwards could not. So that example was a foul during the live period, so VAR can continue reviewing it. If the ref had blown for full time or a foul a second before that incident, VAR wasn't bringing back for a penalty.
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Posting the link below from another thread. An example of VAR intervening after the whistle was blown … at Old Trafford, in favour of the home team!
https://x.com/jimivillan/status/1926725852374421917?s=48&t=LVxR0Bw9iameEdYaLirmDw
As I said last night, if VAR sends the ref to the monitor to award a goal, there is nowhere near the same reaction. There’s more chance that VAR is credited with getting to the right outcome.
If anyone wants to suggest this is some sort of Karma for the ‘ghost goal’, respectfully, give your head a wobble. UTV
But that example is still nothing like ours is it. The whistle is blown, the ball is dead. Anything before the whistle can be reviewed if it comes under the remit of VAR, anything afterwards could not. So that example was a foul during the live period, so VAR can continue reviewing it. If the ref had blown for full time or a foul a second before that incident, VAR wasn't bringing back for a penalty.
So, are you genuinely arguing that there would be a problem if VAR reviewed the decision?
Not what is the letter of the law, but with play stopped (with the ball in the back of the net), sending the ref to the monitor to get the decision right has to be the only sensible outcome.
Otherwise, there is no point in VAR.
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17 minutes from the end of a season we score a perfectly good goal. To wake us up? Get us nice and solid? Change the performance? Maybe catch them on the break again? Maybe break them with "we've actually played well and we're still losing?" Maybe get them thinking about how much they don't want a 12 flight after this? A goal to probably get us a win or a draw at least. 17 minutes, despite everything on the day, for the entire season.
Goals change games, that goal changed a season. For all the "if only we'd done X at Y" which ignores all the "we did A and B at C to even be there" 17 minutes from time, at Old Trafford, 1 nil up needing 1 point but actually having 3.
Agree with this. I think if the Rogers goal had stood, we'd have got the result required for top 5.
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Dermot Gallagher agrees, the goal should have stood. It really is a very poor decision.
Yeah I saw that. He started off being his usual evasive self looking to cover his mates arse but eventually he come clean and admitted it was a terrible decision. Blowing his whistle when he did was beyond idiotic. I thought Stephen Warnock was bang on and didn't hold back. He even cited the fact that the club has every right to be angry as his mistake has likely cost us in the region of 100 million quid. I'm glad I said hello to him now when I saw him at Birmingham Airport recently.
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The worst thing about yesterday was that our run of really tasty gravy and chips around Manchester stadiums came to a horrible end. :'(
Under-cooked chips, thin gravy… utterly disgraceful what was served up.
Can’t bring myself to think about chips now.
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Dermot Gallagher agrees, the goal should have stood. It really is a very poor decision.
Yeah I saw that. He started off being his usual evasive self looking to cover his mates arse but eventually he come clean and admitted it was a terrible decision. Blowing his whistle when he did was beyond idiotic. I thought Stephen Warnock was bang on and didn't hold back. He even cited the fact that the club has every right to be angry as his mistake has likely cost us in the region of 100 million quid. I'm glad I said hello to him now when I saw him at Birmingham Airport recently.
Actually the only mistake the ref made was the decision. You know, the only thing that matters. Gallagher is a twat, he must be the original source of DNA all refs have been cloned from.
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I still hate them all.
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Gutted. Will not be the same on Tuesday/Wednesday nights.
All week I have been telling whoever asked that if we will we'll be in CL but when I mattered we didn't and all we had to do was draw.
And all week they’ve been going “Aftab’s been on the drink again!”
Haha...You are right Ducksworthy, just read it again and I think I let myself down, however in my defence it was shortly after that game and my head wasn't right and to be honest it still isn't. :'(
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The Europa league will be fine, we’ll have a better chance of winning it.
We didn't exactly stink out the CL, we lost the quarter final by a goal in 9 so I think we had a good chance of winning that as well.
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I think if the Rogers goal had stood, we'd have got the result required for top 5.
Yes indeed. As you know I don't know any swear words but if I did I would have been uttering profanities ever since the final whistle yesterday. All Bramballsup had to do was disallow it after it hit the net, VAR would have sorted him.
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Had a lingering doubt we'd do what was required up there. Those feckers always seem to come out on top, usually through some controversial moment.
Off the top of my head....
- Vidic should have seen red in the League Cup final in 2010
- The Fernandes penalty where he trod on Konsa's foot in the penalty area
- The Rogers goal yesterday
There are almost certainly more which I have erased from living memory. In hindsight, I'm glad they lost that Europa final the other night. Tossers.
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Had a lingering doubt we'd do what was required up there. Those feckers always seem to come out on top, usually through some controversial moment.
Off the top of my head....
- Vidic should have seen red in the League Cup final in 2010
- The Fernandes penalty where he trod on Konsa's foot in the penalty area
- The Rogers goal yesterday
There are almost certainly more which I have erased from living memory. In hindsight, I'm glad they lost that Europa final the other night. Tossers.
92 and those 7 minutes of injury time which was unheard of then. Not against us but we were in a battle for the league with them.
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A summer dreaming of signing Jonathan David now turns into hoping we can get Kevin Philips over the line.
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Had a lingering doubt we'd do what was required up there. Those feckers always seem to come out on top, usually through some controversial moment.
Off the top of my head....
- Vidic should have seen red in the League Cup final in 2010
- The Fernandes penalty where he trod on Konsa's foot in the penalty area
- The Rogers goal yesterday
There are almost certainly more which I have erased from living memory. In hindsight, I'm glad they lost that Europa final the other night. Tossers.
92 and those 7 minutes of injury time which was unheard of then. Not against us but we were in a battle for the league with them.
Forgotten all the detail now but I used to be able to make the case - and did as a student in Manchester - that they didn’t deserve to win any of their final ten matches in 92-93!
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A summer dreaming of signing Jonathan David now turns into hoping we can get Kevin Philips over the line.
It's a summer for being smart in the transfer market for sure. I'm not sure I was ever dreaming of Jonathan David though, and I'd say he's more like a target now for us than he might've been before.
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I'm absolutely gutted I really thought we would do it.
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This was the worst it could've possibly gone, an absolutely hellish day, just a horrible, hideous thing. The fact that Newcastle bottled it that badly too is almost too much to take.
Just to say, had Torres played that terrible backpass that eventually got Martinez sent off this place would be a smouldering ruin! I like Cash but man, he sure knows how to make a mistake.
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It was a horrible performance. I like Cash too, but it felt like the kind of mistake that could kill your career at the club. Not one of the starters comes out with any credit yesterday, but that mistake from Cash was both awful and had huge implications, from a player that probably isn’t one those that are secure. And you’re right Monty, Torres is never forgiven for that.
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This was the worst it could've possibly gone, an absolutely hellish day, just a horrible, hideous thing. The fact that Newcastle bottled it that badly too is almost too much to take.
Just to say, had Torres played that terrible backpass that eventually got Martinez sent off this place would be a smouldering ruin! I like Cash but man, he sure knows how to make a mistake.
No it isn’t, if Forest had equalised we’d be in 7th.
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And Wood had a big chance at the end.
One thought occurs to me. It’s not beyond the realms that Cov supporting Attwell would have upheld the ref’s decision even if he hadn’t blown his whistle!
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I think it's far from guaranteed VAR would have overturned it. We know their remit is to back up their mate.
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This was the worst it could've possibly gone, an absolutely hellish day, just a horrible, hideous thing. The fact that Newcastle bottled it that badly too is almost too much to take.
Just to say, had Torres played that terrible backpass that eventually got Martinez sent off this place would be a smouldering ruin! I like Cash but man, he sure knows how to make a mistake.
No it isn’t, if Forest had equalised we’d be in 7th.
Yeah every cloud and all that. Having watched the highlights of their game i don't know how they didn't get an equaliser. Conference league would of been a shattering blow after doing so well in this seasons CL.
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It would have been.
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So, are you genuinely arguing that there would be a problem if VAR reviewed the decision?
Not what is the letter of the law, but with play stopped (with the ball in the back of the net), sending the ref to the monitor to get the decision right has to be the only sensible outcome.
Otherwise, there is no point in VAR.
I'm stating simple concepts.
1: VAR is only involved for decisions on goals, penalties and red cards that happen when play is live on the pitch.
2: Play stops as soon as the ref blows his whistle. VAR can continue to look at live incidents that involve any of the three things that happened before the ref blows but not actions that happen after the ref blows. So if the ref had called the foul and the keeper then brought down Rogers for a penalty, the penalty wouldn't have been looked at as it happened after the whistle had blown, even though it wasn't a foul.
In our case, Ref blew his whistle a second before the ball crossed the line, so play stopped at that point without a goal being scored. VAR could check to see if the ball crossed the line before the whistle, and if it had, then all you mention above could then happen. As it didn't, they couldn't do anything else under the rules of the game as a simple foul is not checked by VAR. The mistake is definitely the refs as he took the decision off VAR and nothing could be done. Hence our letter of complaint is about the ref and not VAR.
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And Wood had a big chance at the end.
One thought occurs to me. It’s not beyond the realms that Cov supporting Attwell would have upheld the ref’s decision even if he hadn’t blown his whistle!
I think I mentioned in passing that it wasn't guaranteed that Atwell would have given the goal even if he had the chance. Although I would like to think that when even Gallagher and Dean was stating it should have been a goal that even Atwell, probably already on caution for missing the blatant handball the week before, would have given the foul on the keeper.
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This was the worst it could've possibly gone, an absolutely hellish day, just a horrible, hideous thing. The fact that Newcastle bottled it that badly too is almost too much to take.
Just to say, had Torres played that terrible backpass that eventually got Martinez sent off this place would be a smouldering ruin! I like Cash but man, he sure knows how to make a mistake.
I agree Cash's back pass was poor, personally I think he was looking for Konsa or Torres and was in 2 minds with Martinez being there, but if you look at the incident from pretty much all angles what Martinez did was nothing short of astonishing, Torres was already on his way back to cover, the ball was going away from from goal and above all that he must have known that Højlund and actually lost control of the ball, he would never have scored in a million years, I have no doubt Cash was initially at fault but once the error occurred after that, Martinez was amazing.
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And Wood had a big chance at the end.
One thought occurs to me. It’s not beyond the realms that Cov supporting Attwell would have upheld the ref’s decision even if he hadn’t blown his whistle!
I think I mentioned in passing that it wasn't guaranteed that Atwell would have given the goal even if he had the chance. Although I would like to think that when even Gallagher and Dean was stating it should have been a goal that even Atwell, probably already on caution for missing the blatant handball the week before, would have given the foul on the keeper.
That would of been very interesting as there was definitely no foul on the keeper.
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So, are you genuinely arguing that there would be a problem if VAR reviewed the decision?
Not what is the letter of the law, but with play stopped (with the ball in the back of the net), sending the ref to the monitor to get the decision right has to be the only sensible outcome.
Otherwise, there is no point in VAR.
I'm stating simple concepts.
1: VAR is only involved for decisions on goals, penalties and red cards that happen when play is live on the pitch.
2: Play stops as soon as the ref blows his whistle. VAR can continue to look at live incidents that involve any of the three things that happened before the ref blows but not actions that happen after the ref blows. So if the ref had called the foul and the keeper then brought down Rogers for a penalty, the penalty wouldn't have been looked at as it happened after the whistle had blown, even though it wasn't a foul.
In our case, Ref blew his whistle a second before the ball crossed the line, so play stopped at that point without a goal being scored. VAR could check to see if the ball crossed the line before the whistle, and if it had, then all you mention above could then happen. As it didn't, they couldn't do anything else under the rules of the game as a simple foul is not checked by VAR. The mistake is definitely the refs as he took the decision off VAR and nothing could be done. Hence our letter of complaint is about the ref and not VAR.
You can see where VAR is concerned and VAR kicks in its so vague, I mean, how do we actually know the ref blew his whistle and when, how do we know he had blown his whistle before the ball had crossed the line, how do we know that for a fact.
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And Wood had a big chance at the end.
One thought occurs to me. It’s not beyond the realms that Cov supporting Attwell would have upheld the ref’s decision even if he hadn’t blown his whistle!
I think I mentioned in passing that it wasn't guaranteed that Atwell would have given the goal even if he had the chance. Although I would like to think that when even Gallagher and Dean was stating it should have been a goal that even Atwell, probably already on caution for missing the blatant handball the week before, would have given the foul on the keeper.
That would of been very interesting as there was definitely no foul on the keeper.
Manchester United supporters already claiming it was in two hands and rogers trod on his hand. Attwell (it is double T btw) in a room on his own would have been a law unto himself specially given his obvious dislike of the Villa!
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You can see where VAR is concerned and VAR kicks in its so vague, I mean, how do we actually know the ref blew his whistle and when, how do we know he had blown his whistle before the ball had crossed the line, how do we know that for a fact.
Listening normally helps.
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So, are you genuinely arguing that there would be a problem if VAR reviewed the decision?
Not what is the letter of the law, but with play stopped (with the ball in the back of the net), sending the ref to the monitor to get the decision right has to be the only sensible outcome.
Otherwise, there is no point in VAR.
I'm stating simple concepts.
1: VAR is only involved for decisions on goals, penalties and red cards that happen when play is live on the pitch.
2: Play stops as soon as the ref blows his whistle. VAR can continue to look at live incidents that involve any of the three things that happened before the ref blows but not actions that happen after the ref blows. So if the ref had called the foul and the keeper then brought down Rogers for a penalty, the penalty wouldn't have been looked at as it happened after the whistle had blown, even though it wasn't a foul.
In our case, Ref blew his whistle a second before the ball crossed the line, so play stopped at that point without a goal being scored. VAR could check to see if the ball crossed the line before the whistle, and if it had, then all you mention above could then happen. As it didn't, they couldn't do anything else under the rules of the game as a simple foul is not checked by VAR. The mistake is definitely the refs as he took the decision off VAR and nothing could be done. Hence our letter of complaint is about the ref and not VAR.
You can see where VAR is concerned and VAR kicks in its so vague, I mean, how do we actually know the ref blew his whistle and when, how do we know he had blown his whistle before the ball had crossed the line, how do we know that for a fact.
Because you can hear it? He blows up just as Rogers strikes the ball and it's very clear. Watching live I heard it and hoped it was slightly later but I didn't think the goal would stand.
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Manchester United supporters already claiming it was in two hands and rogers trod on his hand. Attwell (it is double T btw) in a room on his own would have been a law unto himself specially given his obvious dislike of the Villa!
He isn't in a room by himself though. But we will never know as the decision was taken out of his hands anyway.
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So, are you genuinely arguing that there would be a problem if VAR reviewed the decision?
Not what is the letter of the law, but with play stopped (with the ball in the back of the net), sending the ref to the monitor to get the decision right has to be the only sensible outcome.
Otherwise, there is no point in VAR.
I'm stating simple concepts.
1: VAR is only involved for decisions on goals, penalties and red cards that happen when play is live on the pitch.
2: Play stops as soon as the ref blows his whistle. VAR can continue to look at live incidents that involve any of the three things that happened before the ref blows but not actions that happen after the ref blows. So if the ref had called the foul and the keeper then brought down Rogers for a penalty, the penalty wouldn't have been looked at as it happened after the whistle had blown, even though it wasn't a foul.
In our case, Ref blew his whistle a second before the ball crossed the line, so play stopped at that point without a goal being scored. VAR could check to see if the ball crossed the line before the whistle, and if it had, then all you mention above could then happen. As it didn't, they couldn't do anything else under the rules of the game as a simple foul is not checked by VAR. The mistake is definitely the refs as he took the decision off VAR and nothing could be done. Hence our letter of complaint is about the ref and not VAR.
You can see where VAR is concerned and VAR kicks in its so vague, I mean, how do we actually know the ref blew his whistle and when, how do we know he had blown his whistle before the ball had crossed the line, how do we know that for a fact.
Because you can hear it? He blows up just as Rogers strikes the ball and it's very clear. Watching live I heard it and hoped it was slightly later but I didn't think the goal would stand.
So you can actually hear that, at that moment, I was speaking to a couple of lads today, local hear, they was at the game, not far away and they said they couldn't hear a god damn thing at any point, they could see he had the whistle to his mouth but that was it. but of course you have to take on board they would have had a few pints, the mayhem that was going on, who knows, but its interesting.
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I agree Cash's back pass was poor, personally I think he was looking for Konsa or Torres and was in 2 minds with Martinez being there, but if you look at the incident from pretty much all angles what Martinez did was nothing short of astonishing, Torres was already on his way back to cover, the ball was going away from from goal and above all that he must have known that Højlund and actually lost control of the ball, he would never have scored in a million years, I have no doubt Cash was initially at fault but once the error occurred after that, Martinez was amazing.
I suspect it was because he was right next to a pitchside mic, but the connection on the ball sounded really solid so for it to move so slowly afterwards was a shock. But there was no way he was looking for Konsa or Torres as they were level with him on the halfway line.
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I agree Cash's back pass was poor, personally I think he was looking for Konsa or Torres and was in 2 minds with Martinez being there, but if you look at the incident from pretty much all angles what Martinez did was nothing short of astonishing, Torres was already on his way back to cover, the ball was going away from from goal and above all that he must have known that Højlund and actually lost control of the ball, he would never have scored in a million years, I have no doubt Cash was initially at fault but once the error occurred after that, Martinez was amazing.
I suspect it was because he was right next to a pitchside mic, but the connection on the ball sounded really solid so for it to move so slowly afterwards was a shock. But there was no way he was looking for Konsa or Torres as they were level with him on the halfway line.
Yeah you can see that, easy for us but if Cash's awareness was in question at that point, not aware of Konsa or Torres, exactly where they are, plus the split decision thing at the time, he would see Martinez rushing out of goal towards him, judging Martinez pace towrds him and him thinking this much pressure on the ball, you can see where all this could go wrong, no question it was a weak pass and bad judgement.
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Manchester United supporters already claiming it was in two hands and rogers trod on his hand. Attwell (it is double T btw) in a room on his own would have been a law unto himself specially given his obvious dislike of the Villa!
He isn't in a room by himself though. But we will never know as the decision was taken out of his hands anyway.
They( Man Utd fans) are going to claim everything, he didn't have the ball under his control, he didn't have both hands on the ball or even one hand on the ball controlling it, the ball was in constant motion, that's why Rogers went for it, it was loose. the keeper didn't not have the ball under his control at any point.
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It looked like the goalkeeper had the ball in his hands and then dropped it again. Fair play to Rogers to be alert to it.
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I agree Cash's back pass was poor, personally I think he was looking for Konsa or Torres and was in 2 minds with Martinez being there, but if you look at the incident from pretty much all angles what Martinez did was nothing short of astonishing, Torres was already on his way back to cover, the ball was going away from from goal and above all that he must have known that Højlund and actually lost control of the ball, he would never have scored in a million years, I have no doubt Cash was initially at fault but once the error occurred after that, Martinez was amazing.
I suspect it was because he was right next to a pitchside mic, but the connection on the ball sounded really solid so for it to move so slowly afterwards was a shock. But there was no way he was looking for Konsa or Torres as they were level with him on the halfway line.
He was looking for Martinez who should have been a good 5-10 yards higher up. Konsa hid from the pass so wasn't an option. Maybe if Hojlund scores it actually settles us, we had froze up to then. There was absolutely no excuse for what Martinez did next, still can't believe it.
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If it’s a mentality thing and we always crumble in the big games. Then how does PSG, Bayern, Newcastle, Man City at home happen. Why didn’t we crumble and lose 5 when 2 down at Arsenal. I don’t get it, were they not big games?
I might be wrong but for me, it’s more we got the tactics wrong yesterday and at Wembley, then struggle to change things when it doesn’t work, more so than we collapse mentally.
They’re home games apart from Arsenal. The big games away against the top 6 were awful. Losing 5 out of 6 and drawing 1. That’s poor by any reckoning and has cost us big time
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If it’s a mentality thing and we always crumble in the big games. Then how does PSG, Bayern, Newcastle, Man City at home happen. Why didn’t we crumble and lose 5 when 2 down at Arsenal. I don’t get it, were they not big games?
I might be wrong but for me, it’s more we got the tactics wrong yesterday and at Wembley, then struggle to change things when it doesn’t work, more so than we collapse mentally.
They’re home games apart from Arsenal. The big games away against the top 6 were awful. Losing 5 out of 6 and drawing 1. That’s poor by any reckoning and has cost us big time
This is right, if you actually take on board the state we was in around Christmas time, then Monchi worked what can only be considered as a minor miracle, the fact we finished 6th and in the Europa Cup, nothing short of incredible, I dread to think had we no got Rashford and Asesnio in where we would have been.
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So, are you genuinely arguing that there would be a problem if VAR reviewed the decision?
Not what is the letter of the law, but with play stopped (with the ball in the back of the net), sending the ref to the monitor to get the decision right has to be the only sensible outcome.
Otherwise, there is no point in VAR.
I'm stating simple concepts.
1: VAR is only involved for decisions on goals, penalties and red cards that happen when play is live on the pitch.
2: Play stops as soon as the ref blows his whistle. VAR can continue to look at live incidents that involve any of the three things that happened before the ref blows but not actions that happen after the ref blows. So if the ref had called the foul and the keeper then brought down Rogers for a penalty, the penalty wouldn't have been looked at as it happened after the whistle had blown, even though it wasn't a foul.
In our case, Ref blew his whistle a second before the ball crossed the line, so play stopped at that point without a goal being scored. VAR could check to see if the ball crossed the line before the whistle, and if it had, then all you mention above could then happen. As it didn't, they couldn't do anything else under the rules of the game as a simple foul is not checked by VAR. The mistake is definitely the refs as he took the decision off VAR and nothing could be done. Hence our letter of complaint is about the ref and not VAR.
You can see where VAR is concerned and VAR kicks in its so vague, I mean, how do we actually know the ref blew his whistle and when, how do we know he had blown his whistle before the ball had crossed the line, how do we know that for a fact.
Er......... Because we heard him blow it. It's clearly audible on the footage!
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I just said to my 15 year old, never mind about yesterday, we played really crap etc. he just said back, its not about playing well its about scoring and winning, we scored a good goal and was robbed by a bad decision.
Literally quoted him verbatim.
Summed it up quite well really.
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The worst thing about yesterday was that our run of really tasty gravy and chips around Manchester stadiums came to a horrible end. :'(
Under-cooked chips, thin gravy… utterly disgraceful what was served up.
Can’t bring myself to think about chips now.
Chips and gravy is a sin against chips anyway 😊
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I agree Cash's back pass was poor, personally I think he was looking for Konsa or Torres and was in 2 minds with Martinez being there, but if you look at the incident from pretty much all angles what Martinez did was nothing short of astonishing, Torres was already on his way back to cover, the ball was going away from from goal and above all that he must have known that Højlund and actually lost control of the ball, he would never have scored in a million years, I have no doubt Cash was initially at fault but once the error occurred after that, Martinez was amazing.
I suspect it was because he was right next to a pitchside mic, but the connection on the ball sounded really solid so for it to move so slowly afterwards was a shock. But there was no way he was looking for Konsa or Torres as they were level with him on the halfway line.
Yeah you can see that, easy for us but if Cash's awareness was in question at that point, not aware of Konsa or Torres, exactly where they are, plus the split decision thing at the time, he would see Martinez rushing out of goal towards him, judging Martinez pace towrds him and him thinking this much pressure on the ball, you can see where all this could go wrong, no question it was a weak pass and bad judgement.
Cash is always looking to turn back towards his own goal. That was a perfect example of it. Why he does that I'm not sure. Is he told to do that? It's an easy way to keep your pass completion stats. Until today that is.
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I agree Cash's back pass was poor, personally I think he was looking for Konsa or Torres and was in 2 minds with Martinez being there, but if you look at the incident from pretty much all angles what Martinez did was nothing short of astonishing, Torres was already on his way back to cover, the ball was going away from from goal and above all that he must have known that Højlund and actually lost control of the ball, he would never have scored in a million years, I have no doubt Cash was initially at fault but once the error occurred after that, Martinez was amazing.
I suspect it was because he was right next to a pitchside mic, but the connection on the ball sounded really solid so for it to move so slowly afterwards was a shock. But there was no way he was looking for Konsa or Torres as they were level with him on the halfway line.
Yeah you can see that, easy for us but if Cash's awareness was in question at that point, not aware of Konsa or Torres, exactly where they are, plus the split decision thing at the time, he would see Martinez rushing out of goal towards him, judging Martinez pace towrds him and him thinking this much pressure on the ball, you can see where all this could go wrong, no question it was a weak pass and bad judgement.
Cash is always looking to turn back towards his own goal. That was a perfect example of it. Why he does that I'm not sure. Is he told to do that? It's an easy way to keep your pass completion stats. Until today that is.
We have all noticed Cash turning back more all season. It hadn't really cost us until yesterday when it became a catastrophic error. But it's been massively frustrating that he has been coached to do it. And while it usually helps us build the play again versus giving the ball away it really hurt us yesterday.
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On a positive note for Man U, it must be very reassuring to know they've unearthed yet another referee who is inclined to give them a helping hand when they need it.
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The worst thing about yesterday was that our run of really tasty gravy and chips around Manchester stadiums came to a horrible end. :'(
Under-cooked chips, thin gravy… utterly disgraceful what was served up.
Can’t bring myself to think about chips now.
Chips and gravy is a sin against chips anyway 😊
Surely not! I hadn’t even added any cheese in… ;D
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Gravy on chips is just very wrong. It's a northern thing and I still don't know what a Rissole is.
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Chips and curry sauce from a Chinese is the best.
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Jonathan Wilson telling us we're all being silly, I suppose it's good that he acknowledges our existence in between his think pieces on Guardiola.
This man is so far up his own arse his feet are sticking out of the side of his head.
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Jonathan Wilson telling us we're all being silly, I suppose it's good that he acknowledges our existence in between his think pieces on Guardiola.
This man is so far up his own arse his feet are sticking out of the side of his head.
He also got very confused...we didn't sell Ian Maatsen last year (as claimed in his article), we bought him!
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Whilst there is some point to the article, e.g. man utd are shite and should be beating them, its otherwise and arrogant wank piece. It seems to delight in any PSR related issues that may come our way, totally ignoring the fact the two Manchester clubs can spend whatever they like. What is the point in bringing up the Sheff utd goal again, and football is about moments. Like I posted earlier, my son pointed out to me, its about scoring, if the goal is given, we have a much better chance of CL qualification.
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The Guardian, generally, has a sneering attitude towards those not from London or Manchester. I rarely bother with their football coverage.
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Whilst there is some point to the article, e.g. man utd are shite and should be beating them, its otherwise and arrogant wank piece. It seems to delight in any PSR related issues that may come our way, totally ignoring the fact the two Manchester clubs can spend whatever they like. What is the point in bringing up the Sheff utd goal again, and football is about moments. Like I posted earlier, my son pointed out to me, its about scoring, if the goal is given, we have a much better chance of CL qualification.
Yeah, the ghost goal has been brought up a few times after yesterday. The comparisons are completely misinformed - in the home game vs Sheffu, a technology issue meant the ref couldn't adjudicate on an incident that took place towards the end of the first half (had the goal been allowed, who knows how the second half might have played out?!). The governing factors yesterday bore no relationship to that.
Wilson's piece is snide and censorious.
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On the few occasions he has mentioned us since Emery came in it's been in that sneering tone. I look forward to us battering his beloved Sunderland senseless.
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Jonathan Wilson telling us we're all being silly, I suppose it's good that he acknowledges our existence in between his think pieces on Guardiola.
This man is so far up his own arse his feet are sticking out of the side of his head.
I don’t normally mind him, but his take that the disallowed goal wasn’t the pivotal moment of the game, rather it was Emi’s daft decision, was odd.
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Jonathan Wilson telling us we're all being silly, I suppose it's good that he acknowledges our existence in between his think pieces on Guardiola.
This man is so far up his own arse his feet are sticking out of the side of his head.
I don’t normally mind him, but his take that the disallowed goal wasn’t the pivotal moment of the game, rather it was Emi’s daft decision, was odd.
He's one of those who used to be good but has spent the last few years being astonishingly lazy and has been torching the excellent reputation that he once had.
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Jonathan Wilson telling us we're all being silly, I suppose it's good that he acknowledges our existence in between his think pieces on Guardiola.
This man is so far up his own arse his feet are sticking out of the side of his head.
I don’t normally mind him, but his take that the disallowed goal wasn’t the pivotal moment of the game, rather it was Emi’s daft decision, was odd.
He's one of those who used to be good but has spent the last few years being astonishingly lazy and has been torching the excellent reputation that he once had.
Yes and the lazy parallel to the Sheff Utd phantom goal is another example. If you can’t see the difference with a disallowed goal just before half time, with 8 games to go, and a disallowed goal 17 minutes from the end of the final game again it’s just odd. Both decisions are wrong, but there’s clearly a bit more of a direct correlation with the impact yesterday,
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The worst thing about yesterday was that our run of really tasty gravy and chips around Manchester stadiums came to a horrible end. :'(
Under-cooked chips, thin gravy… utterly disgraceful what was served up.
Can’t bring myself to think about chips now.
Chips and gravy is a sin against chips anyway 😊
Surely not! I hadn’t even added any cheese in… ;D
That’s a point in your favour I suppose!
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Jonathan Wilson telling us we're all being silly, I suppose it's good that he acknowledges our existence in between his think pieces on Guardiola.
This man is so far up his own arse his feet are sticking out of the side of his head.
I don’t normally mind him, but his take that the disallowed goal wasn’t the pivotal moment of the game, rather it was Emi’s daft decision, was odd.
He's one of those who used to be good but has spent the last few years being astonishingly lazy and has been torching the excellent reputation that he once had.
Yes and the lazy parallel to the Sheff Utd phantom goal is another example. If you can’t see the difference with a disallowed goal just before half time, with 8 games to go, and a disallowed goal 17 minutes from the end of the final game again it’s just odd. Both decisions are wrong, but there’s clearly a bit more of a direct correlation with the impact yesterday,
He's even worse to listen to, I find the tone with how he often speaks really quite irritating. I also used to not mind him, but I am a little gutted now when he is on the podcast I listen to.
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Glad it wasn’t just me who found that article annoying and a bit odd. It seems he thinks that pushing PSR to its limit is a crime deserving punishment.
He also takes opposite views on; yesterdays goals being ruled out - there were still 17 minutes to play, anything could have happened; and the Sheffield utds non goal - if that had counted we’d have been relegated.
In commentary on TNT yesterday Darren Fletcher said “there will be an inquest into this”, McCoist said “you’d think so”
I said to my dad not when it’s Villa it won’t. And guess which one of us was right!
It’s probably the thing that winds me up the most…mistakes happen, fair enough…but we’re not one of the sacred teams that are allowed to bang on about it so our complaints are embarrassing and glossed over. Far less important mistakes effecting more celebrated teams get never ending post mortems. Never mind the more egregious error which is Man City cheating us out of a place…by breaking the rules Wilson criticises us for following…let’s hear an interview with Pep about how important it is to qualify in the champions league places…Aaaaaaghhh!!!!
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There is a reason The Guardian is going bust.
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Ah yes, The Manchester Guardian.
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Jonathan Wilson telling us we're all being silly, I suppose it's good that he acknowledges our existence in between his think pieces on Guardiola.
This man is so far up his own arse his feet are sticking out of the side of his head.
I don’t normally mind him, but his take that the disallowed goal wasn’t the pivotal moment of the game, rather it was Emi’s daft decision, was odd.
He's one of those who used to be good but has spent the last few years being astonishingly lazy and has been torching the excellent reputation that he once had.
Sadly I have to agree with that. Thought his book on Clough was spectacular, a passion project. His book on the two Charltons had the tone of someone who was pissed off he had to write it.
Id agree with the main point of his article though. We shouldn't be needing an inexplicable error from a referee or their backup keeper to beat that shambles of a United team.
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Ah yes, The Manchester Guardian.
Has always been awful. Affected nonsense.
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Jonathan Wilson telling us we're all being silly, I suppose it's good that he acknowledges our existence in between his think pieces on Guardiola.
This man is so far up his own arse his feet are sticking out of the side of his head.
I don’t normally mind him, but his take that the disallowed goal wasn’t the pivotal moment of the game, rather it was Emi’s daft decision, was odd.
He's one of those who used to be good but has spent the last few years being astonishingly lazy and has been torching the excellent reputation that he once had.
Sadly I have to agree with that. Thought his book on Clough was spectacular, a passion project. His book on the two Charltons had the tone of someone who was pissed off he had to write it.
Id agree with the main point of his article though. We shouldn't be needing an inexplicable error from a referee or their backup keeper to beat that shambles of a United team.
Exactly that . The biggest disappointment was the complete no show vs that rabble and we made them look decent . It was a very very odd performance.
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It’s not about needing it though - we didn’t plan for a stupid red card. That would have thrown the plans out, but we responded we took our chance 11 vs 10 and it was denied us through error. We played poorly, but we hadn’t conceded in spite of being a man down and were unfairly denied our lead. To say that isn’t pivotal is just dense.
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It’s not about needing it though - we didn’t plan for a stupid red card. That would have thrown the plans out, but we responded we took our chance 11 vs 10 and it was denied us through error. We played poorly, but we hadn’t conceded in spite of being a man down and were unfairly denied our lead. To say that isn’t pivotal is just dense.
I guarantee that had that goal been allowed, and with Unai fully aware of the scores elsewhere, our game plan would have changed instantly. We would have played that last 20 minutes in a VERY different manner.
It's all ifs and buts now though. I'm gutted, not just about missing out (which hurts, obv), but the manner in which we missed out. It's an incident that will be talked about for years, and may well come to be seen as a sliding-doors moment - I hope in the way losing to Fulham in the play-off final turned out to be a massive blessing (I hope, because right now I fail to see how it will be anything other than extremely costly to our long-term ambitions)
Here's to a title challenge next season and a bit of European silverware.
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It’s not about needing it though - we didn’t plan for a stupid red card. That would have thrown the plans out, but we responded we took our chance 11 vs 10 and it was denied us through error. We played poorly, but we hadn’t conceded in spite of being a man down and were unfairly denied our lead. To say that isn’t pivotal is just dense.
I guarantee that had that goal been allowed, and with Unai fully aware of the scores elsewhere, our game plan would have changed instantly. We would have played that last 20 minutes in a VERY different manner.
It's all ifs and buts now though. I'm gutted, not just about missing out (which hurts, obv), but the manner in which we missed out. It's an incident that will be talked about for years, and may well come to be seen as a sliding-doors moment - I hope in the way losing to Fulham in the play-off final turned out to be a massive blessing (I hope, because right now I fail to see how it will be anything other than extremely costly to our long-term ambitions)
Here's to a title challenge next season and a bit of European silverware.
We certainly wouldn't have had a 5-10minute spell of looking massively pissed off and losing our heads.
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It’s not about needing it though - we didn’t plan for a stupid red card. That would have thrown the plans out, but we responded we took our chance 11 vs 10 and it was denied us through error. We played poorly, but we hadn’t conceded in spite of being a man down and were unfairly denied our lead. To say that isn’t pivotal is just dense.
I guarantee that had that goal been allowed, and with Unai fully aware of the scores elsewhere, our game plan would have changed instantly. We would have played that last 20 minutes in a VERY different manner.
It's all ifs and buts now though. I'm gutted, not just about missing out (which hurts, obv), but the manner in which we missed out. It's an incident that will be talked about for years, and may well come to be seen as a sliding-doors moment - I hope in the way losing to Fulham in the play-off final turned out to be a massive blessing (I hope, because right now I fail to see how it will be anything other than extremely costly to our long-term ambitions)
Here's to a title challenge next season and a bit of European silverware.
It shouldn't really be talked about for years , in the same way the hawkeye moment shouldn't . But that still gets rolled out yet I suspect this wont be . From a neutrals point of view this is what people love about football , e.g., if this was Spurs or Newcastle we would be laughing at them .
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I'm going to presume not blaming the decision is some form of self-preservation strategy considering the blind rage I've felt for the last 24 hours+. That Wilson article nearly tipped me over the edge.
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It’s not about needing it though - we didn’t plan for a stupid red card. That would have thrown the plans out, but we responded we took our chance 11 vs 10 and it was denied us through error. We played poorly, but we hadn’t conceded in spite of being a man down and were unfairly denied our lead. To say that isn’t pivotal is just dense.
We were in complete disarray before the red card. Don't get me wrong it was a rotten decision, the whataboutery twaddle about the Sheff United ghost goal is irrelevant too, but we didn't remotely perform yesterday. That's the main reason we aren't playing in the CL next season. The club whinging about the inexperienced referee is a bit embarrassing.
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We were a mess, but the only factual point is that we should have been 1-0 in the 73rd minute. I can’t say for certain, but I’m 90% certain it changes how that game plays out.
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We were in complete disarray before the red card. Don't get me wrong it was a rotten decision, the whataboutery twaddle about the Sheff United ghost goal is irrelevant too, but we didn't remotely perform yesterday. That's the main reason we aren't playing in the CL next season. The club whinging about the inexperienced referee is a bit embarrassing.
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The statement read that we were asking why such an inexperienced referee was put in charge of our game. It wasn’t whinging it was our club standing up for themselves. A credible request in my opinion as they had a more experienced ref in charge of the Liverpool game and one sat in a box. It’s about time we stopped taking things like this on the chin and about time a club came out to call out the PGMOL. They get away with too much and certain clubs have applied the same pressure. Wasn’t our game as important as one that meant nothing?
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I’m consoling myself that seven years to the day I was wandering out of Wembley not knowing whether we would still have a club the following season. Now I’m moaning because we missed out on the champions league on goal difference on the last day.
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It’s not about needing it though - we didn’t plan for a stupid red card. That would have thrown the plans out, but we responded we took our chance 11 vs 10 and it was denied us through error. We played poorly, but we hadn’t conceded in spite of being a man down and were unfairly denied our lead. To say that isn’t pivotal is just dense.
We were in complete disarray before the red card. Don't get me wrong it was a rotten decision, the whataboutery twaddle about the Sheff United ghost goal is irrelevant too, but we didn't remotely perform yesterday. That's the main reason we aren't playing in the CL next season. The club whinging about the inexperienced referee is a bit embarrassing.
It's not embarrassing. It's not the first time the better team has been losing a football match after 73 minutes. It's not the first time a team has been outplayed and won. It happens ALL the time. And it SHOULD have been happening after 73 minutes yesterday.
It didn't happen, though.
However, I have no problem with the club putting on record our displeasure at the way it unfolded. It's a perfectly legitimate gripe. I also think it's worth kicking up a stink if for no reason other than it might create a very tiny doubt in a ref's mind next season when he considers blowing a bit early, and it helps us. Fergie was brilliant at this, and it definitely helped his team get favourable decisions from time to time.
If this only has a tiny 1% effect on refs thinking a fraction of a second longer about decisions that negatively affect us in the future, then I think it's worth it.
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It’s not about needing it though - we didn’t plan for a stupid red card. That would have thrown the plans out, but we responded we took our chance 11 vs 10 and it was denied us through error. We played poorly, but we hadn’t conceded in spite of being a man down and were unfairly denied our lead. To say that isn’t pivotal is just dense.
We were in complete disarray before the red card. Don't get me wrong it was a rotten decision, the whataboutery twaddle about the Sheff United ghost goal is irrelevant too, but we didn't remotely perform yesterday. That's the main reason we aren't playing in the CL next season. The club whinging about the inexperienced referee is a bit embarrassing.
It's not embarrassing. It's not the first time the better team has been losing a football match after 73 minutes. It's not the first time a team has been outplayed and won. It happens ALL the time. And it SHOULD have been happening after 73 minutes yesterday.
It didn't happen, though.
However, I have no problem with the club putting on record our displeasure at the way it unfolded. It's a perfectly legitimate gripe. I also think it's worth kicking up a stink if for no reason other than it might create a very tiny doubt in a ref's mind next season when he considers blowing a bit early, and it helps us. Fergie was brilliant at this, and it definitely helped his team get favourable decisions from time to time.
If this only has a tiny 1% effect on refs thinking a fraction of a second longer about decisions that negatively affect us in the future, then I think it's worth it.
Completely agree with this. The poor performance whilst annoying, in terms of we should be beating this poor man utd team, actually to a degree is a side issue. We go one nil up and its against the run of play, er so what of it. Good teams play shit and win all the time. We found a way to get in front when playing shit, 2/3rds into the game, there’s a good chance we don’t lose from there on in. The decision was everything.
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It’s not about needing it though - we didn’t plan for a stupid red card. That would have thrown the plans out, but we responded we took our chance 11 vs 10 and it was denied us through error. We played poorly, but we hadn’t conceded in spite of being a man down and were unfairly denied our lead. To say that isn’t pivotal is just dense.
We were in complete disarray before the red card. Don't get me wrong it was a rotten decision, the whataboutery twaddle about the Sheff United ghost goal is irrelevant too, but we didn't remotely perform yesterday. That's the main reason we aren't playing in the CL next season. The club whinging about the inexperienced referee is a bit embarrassing.
It's been said ad nauseum that we didn't turn up we stank the place out and didn't deserve to win yadda yadda yadda. But, and it's a big but we were ultimately denied a legitimate goal and that's the main reason we're not playing in the CL next season. 1-0 to us with 15 minutes left changes everything. We would of shut up shop. It's not like a team has never won a game they didn't deserve to with an old school "smash and grab" is it? And as for the club embarrassing themselves with the statement again I must disagree. We had every right to kick up a stink. The clubs who tend to win stuff are generally the ones who shout the loudest against perceived injustices.
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Why do Liverpool and Manchester United get so many decisions in their favour? Because the officials know that if they give even a 51/49 the 'wrong' way there'll be a tsunami of media attention. That's what we need to be doing.
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It’s not about needing it though - we didn’t plan for a stupid red card. That would have thrown the plans out, but we responded we took our chance 11 vs 10 and it was denied us through error. We played poorly, but we hadn’t conceded in spite of being a man down and were unfairly denied our lead. To say that isn’t pivotal is just dense.
We were in complete disarray before the red card. Don't get me wrong it was a rotten decision, the whataboutery twaddle about the Sheff United ghost goal is irrelevant too, but we didn't remotely perform yesterday. That's the main reason we aren't playing in the CL next season. The club whinging about the inexperienced referee is a bit embarrassing.
It's been said ad nauseum that we didn't turn up we stank the place out and didn't deserve to win yadda yadda yadda. But, and it's a big but we were ultimately denied a legitimate goal and that's the main reason we're not playing in the CL next season. 1-0 to us with 15 minutes left changes everything. We would of shut up shop. It's not like a team has never won a game they didn't deserve to with an old school "smash and grab" is it? And as for the club embarrassing themselves with the statement again I must disagree. We had every right to kick up a stink. The clubs who tend to win stuff are generally the ones who shout the loudest against perceived injustices.
Spot on for me. I've no problem with the statement.
We were miles off it but scored a legitimate goal.
Something which United had failed to do up to that moment.
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We could have been battering the living shit out of them and not scored, until the 73rd minute. Goals change games. The referee changed a season.
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It’s not about needing it though - we didn’t plan for a stupid red card. That would have thrown the plans out, but we responded we took our chance 11 vs 10 and it was denied us through error. We played poorly, but we hadn’t conceded in spite of being a man down and were unfairly denied our lead. To say that isn’t pivotal is just dense.
We were in complete disarray before the red card. Don't get me wrong it was a rotten decision, the whataboutery twaddle about the Sheff United ghost goal is irrelevant too, but we didn't remotely perform yesterday. That's the main reason we aren't playing in the CL next season. The club whinging about the inexperienced referee is a bit embarrassing.
Shouldn't you be applauding the manager for getting a load of "4 out of 10 at best" players this close?
Something is embarrassing alright.
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We were in complete disarray before the red card. Don't get me wrong it was a rotten decision, the whataboutery twaddle about the Sheff United ghost goal is irrelevant too, but we didn't remotely perform yesterday. That's the main reason we aren't playing in the CL next season. The club whinging about the inexperienced referee is a bit embarrassing.
The statement read that we were asking why such an inexperienced referee was put in charge of our game. It wasn’t whinging it was our club standing up for themselves. A credible request in my opinion as they had a more experienced ref in charge of the Liverpool game and one sat in a box. It’s about time we stopped taking things like this on the chin and about time a club came out to call out the PGMOL. They get away with too much and certain clubs have applied the same pressure. Wasn’t our game as important as one that meant nothing?
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Did we object to the selection of the referee before the game?
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Take it on the chin move on . We were woeful should have been 3 down at HT . And the 2nd half was as bad .
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Take it on the chin move on . We were woeful should have been 3 down at HT . And the 2nd half was as bad .
You’re right we SHOULD have been 3-0 down but were not, we put the ball in the net but we were denied the opportunity of a review through a mistake when they’re told to play on as in many offsides that you see plenty of in most games. We go 1-0 up and who knows how it plays out.
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Take it on the chin move on . We were woeful should have been 3 down at HT . And the 2nd half was as bad .
In that case we should have two extra points for battering Ipswich at home.
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Nope. Had we escaped with a draw it would have been the only time in football history that the team with more chances didn't win.
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Just think, if the goal had been given and we held on we'd have created history. The first side in over 150 years of football to win a game they didn't deserve to. The wait for that to happen goes on.
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Did we object to the selection of the referee before the game?
And if we did you would have stated "that is embarrassing".
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Take it on the chin move on . We were woeful should have been 3 down at HT . And the 2nd half was as bad .
There’s no option but to take it in the chin but that does not stop you from asking a question. That’s what we’ve done and we’ve made it known that we will ask questions. You don’t roll
over like puppy and get your tummy tickled and get called a “good boy”.
We should have been 1 up because we legitimately got the ball in between the posts and they hadn’t. When VAR is not used you’ve every right to ask questions as to why. Doing otherwise makes you look weak and makes it much easier for this type of thing to happen to us again.
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Reffed Hull V PNE earlier this season and a complaint was put in about an awful penalty decision which lost PNE the game. Later in the same season, he’s reffing premier league games and turns up with us.
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Take it on the chin move on . We were woeful should have been 3 down at HT . And the 2nd half was as bad .
There’s no option but to take it in the chin but that does not stop you from asking a question. That’s what we’ve done and we’ve made it known that we will ask questions. You don’t roll
over like puppy and get your tummy tickled and get called a “good boy”.
We should have been 1 up because we legitimately got the ball in between the posts and they hadn’t. When VAR is not used you’ve every right to ask questions as to why. Doing otherwise makes you look weak and makes it much easier for this type of thing to happen to us again.
But we weren't three nil down at halftime, too be three nil down you have to put the ball in the back of the net,we score that goal, united are not in that position to score two
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I can't think of any other refereeing error that has lead to a £60m+ impact on a team. We'll have more player's being sold that we don't want to sell. It could take us 2 seasons to recover from that.
He better never show his face around Villa Park.
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Why do Liverpool and Manchester United get so many decisions in their favour? Because the officials know that if they give even a 51/49 the 'wrong' way there'll be a tsunami of media attention. That's what we need to be doing.
Do you really believe that? Fair enough when Fergie was bullying all around him but these days I'm not so sure.
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Why do Liverpool and Manchester United get so many decisions in their favour? Because the officials know that if they give even a 51/49 the 'wrong' way there'll be a tsunami of media attention. That's what we need to be doing.
Do you really believe that? Fair enough when Fergie was bullying all around him but these lads I'm not so sure.
It's patently the case.
There's plenty of controversial decisons involving a select few but unless it's between each other it's always in their favour.
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Liverpool / ManUre like it or not are 2 of the biggest clubs/brands in world football so to just copy that isn't excatly straightforward
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United fan here, you want to be a big club then you have to eat what happened to you and move on. Being a big club means you will have years in which u miss out by the smallest fractions. United had Cantona banned for a season, we miss out on title final day by 1 point. Same thing with the season Ferdinand was banned. Then u have QPR against City. As soon as QPR learn the other game is over and thus they are safe from relegation, they roll over and concede two goals in injury time, then celebrate with City fans - we lost that league on goal difference. Being a big club means shit happens and sometimes to you.
You wanna know who should be depressed, Forest fans. They spent most of the year in 3rd then fuck up royally their last 10 games. They will not be in a position for champions league again this decade.
If you guys had been in any way decent, then fair enough -you'd deserve the sympathy. But do you really think Newcastle deserve to miss out on champs league because another dickhead United goalkeeper decides to gift the opposition. You didn't create anything, you had no good moments. If it was reversed and we somehow gifted a toothless newcastle side a goal out of nothing, how would you feel missing out because of that? You didn't earn it at any moment on that pitch.
When the goal was disallowed, your manager should have called a bunch of the players to the sideline instead of jumping around like a mad kangaroo and told them, 'hold this'. 0-0 got u in the champs league. Instead y'all were too emotional and blew up. Anyway, with some good signings in the summer I 100% expect you to be up and around the places next year, maybe heartbreak maybe a trophy - that is what you get following a big club.
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United fan here, you want to be a big club then you have to eat what happened to you and move on. Being a big club means you will have years in which u miss out by the smallest fractions. United had Cantona banned for a season, we miss out on title final day by 1 point. Same thing with the season Ferdinand was banned. Then u have QPR against City. As soon as QPR learn the other game is over and thus they are safe from relegation, they roll over and concede two goals in injury time, then celebrate with City fans - we lost that league on goal difference. Being a big club means shit happens and sometimes to you.
You wanna know who should be depressed, Forest fans. They spent most of the year in 3rd then fuck up royally their last 10 games. They will not be in a position for champions league again this decade.
If you guys had been in any way decent, then fair enough -you'd deserve the sympathy. But do you really think Newcastle deserve to miss out on champs league because another dickhead United goalkeeper decides to gift the opposition. You didn't create anything, you had no good moments. If it was reversed and we somehow gifted a toothless newcastle side a goal out of nothing, how would you feel missing out because of that? You didn't earn it at any moment on that pitch.
When the goal was disallowed, your manager should have called a bunch of the players to the sideline instead of jumping around like a mad kangaroo and told them, 'hold this'. 0-0 got u in the champs league. Instead y'all were too emotional and blew up. Anyway, with some good signings in the summer I 100% expect you to be up and around the places next year, maybe heartbreak maybe a trophy - that is what you get following a big club.
Fuck off you gimp.
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Why do Liverpool and Manchester United get so many decisions in their favour? Because the officials know that if they give even a 51/49 the 'wrong' way there'll be a tsunami of media attention. That's what we need to be doing.
Do you really believe that? Fair enough when Fergie was bullying all around him but these lads I'm not so sure.
It's patently the case.
There's plenty of controversial decisons involving a select few but unless it's between each other it's always in their favour.
Agree, unfortunately the red bias media whores are embedded.
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Just had a read of the Guardian article by Wilson, very strange take that the 'goal' wasn't the key moment. I always read his articles and guess that as hes not a match reporter, he's always looking for the outside take, the line no-one else is taking.
For me the biggest gaffe is his view that us pushing the PSR line deserves punishment, we are pushing the line, no doubt at all, pushing it and finishing well outside competing for the title, whilst those clearly well the other side of the line make hay. There are plenty of voices in the same paper grousing at the lack of a real title race, they may have a point.
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Wilson's a guy who sometimes seems unable to take his own side in a fight. He's quite fullthroated about the state of the game, the petrostate sportswashing, the hollowing out of competition, yet very often on an issue like this has a strange default to the status quo (and also writes about Man Utd more often than a person supposedly invested in the diversifying of the football attention economy really ought to).
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Wilson's a guy who sometimes seems unable to take his own side in a fight. He's quite fullthroated about the state of the game, the petrostate sportswashing, the hollowing out of competition, yet very often on an issue like this has a strange default to the status quo (and also writes about Man Utd more often than a person supposedly invested in the diversifying of the football attention economy really ought to).
His endless pieces on Man Utd and City I suspect are driven more by the rag he writes for, but still.
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United fan here, you want to be a big club then you have to eat what happened to you and move on. Being a big club means you will have years in which u miss out by the smallest fractions. United had Cantona banned for a season, we miss out on title final day by 1 point. Same thing with the season Ferdinand was banned. Then u have QPR against City. As soon as QPR learn the other game is over and thus they are safe from relegation, they roll over and concede two goals in injury time, then celebrate with City fans - we lost that league on goal difference. Being a big club means shit happens and sometimes to you.
You wanna know who should be depressed, Forest fans. They spent most of the year in 3rd then fuck up royally their last 10 games. They will not be in a position for champions league again this decade.
If you guys had been in any way decent, then fair enough -you'd deserve the sympathy. But do you really think Newcastle deserve to miss out on champs league because another dickhead United goalkeeper decides to gift the opposition. You didn't create anything, you had no good moments. If it was reversed and we somehow gifted a toothless newcastle side a goal out of nothing, how would you feel missing out because of that? You didn't earn it at any moment on that pitch.
When the goal was disallowed, your manager should have called a bunch of the players to the sideline instead of jumping around like a mad kangaroo and told them, 'hold this'. 0-0 got u in the champs league. Instead y'all were too emotional and blew up. Anyway, with some good signings in the summer I 100% expect you to be up and around the places next year, maybe heartbreak maybe a trophy - that is what you get following a big club.
Ban this prick please
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It’s not rather worst analysis I have ever read.
See BC Villa, ( a clue in the name)
At least this bloke admits he is a xxxx
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Ban this prick please
I'm a United fan, we both know that means you won't do shit and you never will.
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Fair play on being a Colchester United fan.
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Fair play on being a Colchester United fan.
tbh they're having a better time than we are.
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I am sick of hearing/reading the barrage of comments along the lines of 'one decision doesn't make your season', 'it was a mistake - get over it' from Talk Sport, Jonathan Wilson to name but two. The cold light of day fact is that, despite being battered, despite being down to ten men we had somehow weathered the storm and were finally putting something together when 'that decision' was made. That's what made the difference (probably) between CL and EL with all its implications, not the previous 38 games.
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Being a big club means you will have years in which u miss out by the smallest fractions.
Another thing that tends to happen is that supporters from pointless also-rans feel they need to turn up and breathlessly give you their dimwitted opinions.
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The cold light of day fact is that, despite being battered, despite being down to ten men we had somehow weathered the storm and were finally putting something together when 'that decision' was made. That's what made the difference (probably) between CL and EL with all its implications, not the previous 38 games.
that's just not true. Another shit United goalkeeper fucked about for no reason and gifted you something you didn't deserve. You didn't create anything. Now how would you feel if United were playing Newcastle and Newc bottled like you did, were totally cowardly and ineffective the whole game and then United just handed them a goal? And remember it was still 0-0 after this happened. You still had champs league. You need to look at your own team.
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United fan here, you want to be a big club then you have to eat what happened to you and move on. Being a big club means you will have years in which u miss out by the smallest fractions. United had Cantona banned for a season, we miss out on title final day by 1 point. Same thing with the season Ferdinand was banned. Then u have QPR against City. As soon as QPR learn the other game is over and thus they are safe from relegation, they roll over and concede two goals in injury time, then celebrate with City fans - we lost that league on goal difference. Being a big club means shit happens and sometimes to you.
You wanna know who should be depressed, Forest fans. They spent most of the year in 3rd then fuck up royally their last 10 games. They will not be in a position for champions league again this decade.
If you guys had been in any way decent, then fair enough -you'd deserve the sympathy. But do you really think Newcastle deserve to miss out on champs league because another dickhead United goalkeeper decides to gift the opposition. You didn't create anything, you had no good moments. If it was reversed and we somehow gifted a toothless newcastle side a goal out of nothing, how would you feel missing out because of that? You didn't earn it at any moment on that pitch.
When the goal was disallowed, your manager should have called a bunch of the players to the sideline instead of jumping around like a mad kangaroo and told them, 'hold this'. 0-0 got u in the champs league. Instead y'all were too emotional and blew up. Anyway, with some good signings in the summer I 100% expect you to be up and around the places next year, maybe heartbreak maybe a trophy - that is what you get following a big club.
United fan here, you want to be a big club then you have to eat what happened to you and move on. Being a big club means you will have years in which u miss out by the smallest fractions. United had Cantona banned for a season, we miss out on title final day by 1 point. Same thing with the season Ferdinand was banned. Then u have QPR against City. As soon as QPR learn the other game is over and thus they are safe from relegation, they roll over and concede two goals in injury time, then celebrate with City fans - we lost that league on goal difference. Being a big club means shit happens and sometimes to you.
You wanna know who should be depressed, Forest fans. They spent most of the year in 3rd then fuck up royally their last 10 games. They will not be in a position for champions league again this decade.
If you guys had been in any way decent, then fair enough -you'd deserve the sympathy. But do you really think Newcastle deserve to miss out on champs league because another dickhead United goalkeeper decides to gift the opposition. You didn't create anything, you had no good moments. If it was reversed and we somehow gifted a toothless newcastle side a goal out of nothing, how would you feel missing out because of that? You didn't earn it at any moment on that pitch.
When the goal was disallowed, your manager should have called a bunch of the players to the sideline instead of jumping around like a mad kangaroo and told them, 'hold this'. 0-0 got u in the champs league. Instead y'all were too emotional and blew up. Anyway, with some good signings in the summer I 100% expect you to be up and around the places next year, maybe heartbreak maybe a trophy - that is what you get following a big club.
Ban this prick please
I honestly don't know whether this twat thinks he is offering a measured opinion on how we should view Sunday's events or is just taking the piss! What I do know however is that at best he is patronising beyond telling us what a big club would do. And the other thing we all know is if a big club were in the this situation they wouldn't just suck it up they would be demanding a replay on the grounds that the competition was voided by the referees actions and if they did not act our case would actionable in law for compensation. Oh yes and he can fu ck off right black to the stone which he crawled from!
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I am sick of hearing/reading the barrage of comments along the lines of 'one decision doesn't make your season', 'it was a mistake - get over it' from Talk Sport, Jonathan Wilson to name but two. The cold light of day fact is that, despite being battered, despite being down to ten men we had somehow weathered the storm and were finally putting something together when 'that decision' was made. That's what made the difference (probably) between CL and EL with all its implications, not the previous 38 games.
I dunno, I'm not as outraged about it as I thought I might be. I've convinced myself it was a mistake, but we made fucking loads of them ourselves and we can control that.
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The cold light of day fact is that, despite being battered, despite being down to ten men we had somehow weathered the storm and were finally putting something together when 'that decision' was made. That's what made the difference (probably) between CL and EL with all its implications, not the previous 38 games.
. You need to look at your own team.
You need to stop pretending your Grandad was from Manchester and support your local team.
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United fan here, you want to be a big club then you have to eat what happened to you and move on. Being a big club means you will have years in which u miss out by the smallest fractions. United had Cantona banned for a season, we miss out on title final day by 1 point. Same thing with the season Ferdinand was banned. Then u have QPR against City. As soon as QPR learn the other game is over and thus they are safe from relegation, they roll over and concede two goals in injury time, then celebrate with City fans - we lost that league on goal difference. Being a big club means shit happens and sometimes to you.
You wanna know who should be depressed, Forest fans. They spent most of the year in 3rd then fuck up royally their last 10 games. They will not be in a position for champions league again this decade.
If you guys had been in any way decent, then fair enough -you'd deserve the sympathy. But do you really think Newcastle deserve to miss out on champs league because another dickhead United goalkeeper decides to gift the opposition. You didn't create anything, you had no good moments. If it was reversed and we somehow gifted a toothless newcastle side a goal out of nothing, how would you feel missing out because of that? You didn't earn it at any moment on that pitch.
When the goal was disallowed, your manager should have called a bunch of the players to the sideline instead of jumping around like a mad kangaroo and told them, 'hold this'. 0-0 got u in the champs league. Instead y'all were too emotional and blew up. Anyway, with some good signings in the summer I 100% expect you to be up and around the places next year, maybe heartbreak maybe a trophy - that is what you get following a big club.
And they wonder why everyone hates them.
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You need to stop pretending your Grandad was from Manchester and support your local team.
The way United are currently if i did that i'd be accused of glory hunting
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You need to stop pretending your Grandad was from Manchester and support your local team.
The way United are currently if i did that i'd be accused of glory hunting
I quite like this guy.
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United fan here, you want to be a big club then you have to eat what happened to you and move on. Being a big club means you will have years in which u miss out by the smallest fractions. United had Cantona banned for a season, we miss out on title final day by 1 point. Same thing with the season Ferdinand was banned. Then u have QPR against City. As soon as QPR learn the other game is over and thus they are safe from relegation, they roll over and concede two goals in injury time, then celebrate with City fans - we lost that league on goal difference. Being a big club means shit happens and sometimes to you.
You wanna know who should be depressed, Forest fans. They spent most of the year in 3rd then fuck up royally their last 10 games. They will not be in a position for champions league again this decade.
If you guys had been in any way decent, then fair enough -you'd deserve the sympathy. But do you really think Newcastle deserve to miss out on champs league because another dickhead United goalkeeper decides to gift the opposition. You didn't create anything, you had no good moments. If it was reversed and we somehow gifted a toothless newcastle side a goal out of nothing, how would you feel missing out because of that? You didn't earn it at any moment on that pitch.
When the goal was disallowed, your manager should have called a bunch of the players to the sideline instead of jumping around like a mad kangaroo and told them, 'hold this'. 0-0 got u in the champs league. Instead y'all were too emotional and blew up. Anyway, with some good signings in the summer I 100% expect you to be up and around the places next year, maybe heartbreak maybe a trophy - that is what you get following a big club.
You talking about the same Newcastle that lost at home to Everton on Sunday?
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United fan here, you want to be a big club then you have to eat what happened to you and move on. Being a big club means you will have years in which u miss out by the smallest fractions. United had Cantona banned for a season, we miss out on title final day by 1 point. Same thing with the season Ferdinand was banned. Then u have QPR against City. As soon as QPR learn the other game is over and thus they are safe from relegation, they roll over and concede two goals in injury time, then celebrate with City fans - we lost that league on goal difference. Being a big club means shit happens and sometimes to you.
You wanna know who should be depressed, Forest fans. They spent most of the year in 3rd then fuck up royally their last 10 games. They will not be in a position for champions league again this decade.
If you guys had been in any way decent, then fair enough -you'd deserve the sympathy. But do you really think Newcastle deserve to miss out on champs league because another dickhead United goalkeeper decides to gift the opposition. You didn't create anything, you had no good moments. If it was reversed and we somehow gifted a toothless newcastle side a goal out of nothing, how would you feel missing out because of that? You didn't earn it at any moment on that pitch.
When the goal was disallowed, your manager should have called a bunch of the players to the sideline instead of jumping around like a mad kangaroo and told them, 'hold this'. 0-0 got u in the champs league. Instead y'all were too emotional and blew up. Anyway, with some good signings in the summer I 100% expect you to be up and around the places next year, maybe heartbreak maybe a trophy - that is what you get following a big club.
No ones asking for sympathy - just a fair crack of the whip with referees when it comes to playing your lot. The list of injustices is getting longer. Ferguson must be proud that officials still cave just like they did in his day.
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You need to stop pretending your Grandad was from Manchester and support your local team.
The way United are currently if i did that i'd be accused of glory hunting
To be fair mate, we were really shit on Sunday, but to be honest for some reason we have struggled a bit against the really really shit teams in the league this year. Drew twice with Ipswich, only beat Leicester and Southampton at home by one goal, lost to Spurs away and now this performance against your bag of shite. Emery needs to in grain it in the players, to swat the shit like yourselves near the bottom of the league, to one side.
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You need to stop pretending your Grandad was from Manchester and support your local team.
The way United are currently if i did that i'd be accused of glory hunting
To be fair mate, we were really shit on Sunday, but to be honest for some reason we have struggled a bit against the really really shit teams in the league this year. Drew twice with Ipswich, only beat Leicester and Southampton at home by one goal, lost to Spurs away and now this performance against your bag of shite. Emery needs to in grain it in the players, to swat the shit like yourselves near the bottom of the league, to one side.
come on lil bro, you know it aint like that. No matter how bad United get your lot will always roll over and give us our easiest game of the season. It's like we're your first love or something, you'll always be there to pick us up. Much respect.
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I am sick of hearing/reading the barrage of comments along the lines of 'one decision doesn't make your season', 'it was a mistake - get over it' from Talk Sport, Jonathan Wilson to name but two. The cold light of day fact is that, despite being battered, despite being down to ten men we had somehow weathered the storm and were finally putting something together when 'that decision' was made. That's what made the difference (probably) between CL and EL with all its implications, not the previous 38 games.
Over a season we weren't good enough . We should have been going into Sunday home and dry .
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You need to stop pretending your Grandad was from Manchester and support your local team.
The way United are currently if i did that i'd be accused of glory hunting
To be fair mate, we were really shit on Sunday, but to be honest for some reason we have struggled a bit against the really really shit teams in the league this year. Drew twice with Ipswich, only beat Leicester and Southampton at home by one goal, lost to Spurs away and now this performance against your bag of shite. Emery needs to in grain it in the players, to swat the shit like yourselves near the bottom of the league, to one side.
come on lil bro, you know it aint like that. No matter how bad United get your lot will always roll over and give us our easiest game of the season. It's like we're your first love or something, you'll always be there to pick us up. Much respect.
Ok, confirmation that you’re a bellend. Enjoy your life, bit sad posting on another teams forum just on a wind up, surely you have some nose hair to pluck.
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Smells like Blues/Brummie Red to me, you can feel the desperation to get a dig in given the world is still laughing at them.
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You need to stop pretending your Grandad was from Manchester and support your local team.
The way United are currently if i did that i'd be accused of glory hunting
To be fair mate, we were really shit on Sunday, but to be honest for some reason we have struggled a bit against the really really shit teams in the league this year. Drew twice with Ipswich, only beat Leicester and Southampton at home by one goal, lost to Spurs away and now this performance against your bag of shite. Emery needs to in grain it in the players, to swat the shit like yourselves near the bottom of the league, to one side.
come on lil bro, you know it aint like that. No matter how bad United get your lot will always roll over and give us our easiest game of the season. It's like we're your first love or something, you'll always be there to pick us up. Much respect.
Ok, confirmation that you’re a bellend. Enjoy your life, bit sad posting on another teams forum just on a wind up, surely you have some nose hair to pluck.
He's not wrong, though.
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Im with Martyn. We did enough to qualify, its just it didnt count.
We have to put up with laws that are meant to stop teams getting our idea above there stations. Despite all that we look like were about to brake through the concrete ceiling for the second time in 2 seasons - only for us to have a perfectly good goal disallowed.
Its fine margins - but its mistakes that cant be made when there is so much money in the balance, and it is artifically made more important by the FFP and PFR legislation.
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I am sick of hearing/reading the barrage of comments along the lines of 'one decision doesn't make your season', 'it was a mistake - get over it' from Talk Sport, Jonathan Wilson to name but two. The cold light of day fact is that, despite being battered, despite being down to ten men we had somehow weathered the storm and were finally putting something together when 'that decision' was made. That's what made the difference (probably) between CL and EL with all its implications, not the previous 38 games.
Over a season we weren't good enough . We should have been going into Sunday home and dry .
How many different days and ways can you keep saying this. It fucking pointless and shows zero understanding of the context of our season. It's obvious that if we had scored more points by 4.00 on Sunday we wouldn't have needed to beat Manure but we hadn't so when a part time premier league referee rocks up and steals a potentially winning goal with 15 minutes to go in a game we only potentially needed to draw that act becomes a major reason why lost. Yes we should have dusted ourselves off and focused - Unai's favourite word but he lost it too - i agree with Rugby twat on that point. Unai and our players lost focus. But if the goal is given none of that is likely to happen. So not having got enough points by 4.00 pm is irrelevant!
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You need to stop pretending your Grandad was from Manchester and support your local team.
The way United are currently if i did that i'd be accused of glory hunting
I quite like this guy.
Still?
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baddowvillains you do know that Villa Tim is the worst poster on here I assume? Best to ignore him.
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You need to stop pretending your Grandad was from Manchester and support your local team.
The way United are currently if i did that i'd be accused of glory hunting
I quite like this guy.
Still?
Yeah I mean, where's the lie? We do always contrive to lose to them. Anyway his assessment of the game isn't necessarily mine but he's way less annoying than Tim, who's (allegedly) a Villa fan.
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I am sick of hearing/reading the barrage of comments along the lines of 'one decision doesn't make your season', 'it was a mistake - get over it' from Talk Sport, Jonathan Wilson to name but two. The cold light of day fact is that, despite being battered, despite being down to ten men we had somehow weathered the storm and were finally putting something together when 'that decision' was made. That's what made the difference (probably) between CL and EL with all its implications, not the previous 38 games.
I dunno, I'm not as outraged about it as I thought I might be. I've convinced myself it was a mistake, but we made fucking loads of them ourselves and we can control that.
I am still more angry about our pathetic no-show performance than that one decision. Because not turning up to these defining games is now very much a template with this team, and it has to stop.
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The fact he's a Man Utd fan from the Midlands (as per username) already shows his lack of moral fibre. Any truisms he is arriving at are wrapped in a patronising, mocking tone. So he can fuck off for me.
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(Or she)
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The fact he's a Man Utd fan from the Midlands (as per username) already shows his lack of moral fibre. Any truisms he is arriving at are wrapped in a patronising, mocking tone. So he can fuck off for me.
It could be even worse, they might like egg chasing.
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(Or she)
'Why are you always banging on about women Stan?'
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They also used y'all in their first post, which should be an instant ban
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You need to stop pretending your Grandad was from Manchester and support your local team.
The way United are currently if i did that i'd be accused of glory hunting
To be fair mate, we were really shit on Sunday, but to be honest for some reason we have struggled a bit against the really really shit teams in the league this year. Drew twice with Ipswich, only beat Leicester and Southampton at home by one goal, lost to Spurs away and now this performance against your bag of shite. Emery needs to in grain it in the players, to swat the shit like yourselves near the bottom of the league, to one side.
come on lil bro, you know it aint like that. No matter how bad United get your lot will always roll over and give us our easiest game of the season. It's like we're your first love or something, you'll always be there to pick us up. Much respect.
"lil bro" - he isn't exactly William Shakespeare is he??!!....
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as a younger man i was coached by Gary Shaw, best summer of my life. so i've always wanted you lot to do alright.
And believe me, 99% of United fans could not have given a fuck about that last game. The fuckers absolutely shat the bed against Spurs in the final, to see them perk up and actually try and play football last game of the season shows what a team of wankers United have
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They also used y'all in their first post, which should be an instant ban
Now that's fair comment.
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Is there anything sadder than a plastic Liverchester fan from nowhere near the city, who desperately tries to engage in "bantz" with proper fans?
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as a younger man i was coached by Gary Shaw, best summer of my life. so i've always wanted you lot to do alright.
And believe me, 99% of United fans could not have given a fuck about that last game. The fuckers absolutely shat the bed against Spurs in the final, to see them perk up and actually try and play football last game of the season shows what a team of wankers United have
Your best post so far......
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You need to stop pretending your Grandad was from Manchester and support your local team.
The way United are currently if i did that i'd be accused of glory hunting
To be fair mate, we were really shit on Sunday, but to be honest for some reason we have struggled a bit against the really really shit teams in the league this year. Drew twice with Ipswich, only beat Leicester and Southampton at home by one goal, lost to Spurs away and now this performance against your bag of shite. Emery needs to in grain it in the players, to swat the shit like yourselves near the bottom of the league, to one side.
come on lil bro, you know it aint like that. No matter how bad United get your lot will always roll over and give us our easiest game of the season. It's like we're your first love or something, you'll always be there to pick us up. Much respect.
Aah bless, an understairs cupboard dweller, armed with his qwerty, dressed no doubt in an under-sized, self-stained football jersey trying to be relevant.
You're to be pitied!
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It's gone now. Show's over.
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It's only 50 days to our next game.
Is that too early for a Walsall v Villa pre match thread ?
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(Or she)
Or whatever pronouns he/she/it chooses to use.
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It's only 50 days to our next game.
Is that too early for a Walsall v Villa pre match thread ?
It's the cherry on the top of the huge turd cake that was Sunday's performance, that we don't have a game this weekend to put it right.
Two months plus to stew on it.
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(Or she)
'Why are you always banging on about women Stan?'
Because I wana be one Reg
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Twat. I was going to add as much as the focus is on the key moment it’s shit like this, their penalty that gets glossed over time and again. Not just against us as much as it feels that way, but against everyone.
https://x.com/b6nigel/status/1927112042806124893?s=46
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One of those VAR backs up if given and doesn't if not. (Although Attwell so.......)
But too be honest, we weren't getting one, let alone two as the keeper wasn't dropping another ball in front of Rogers.
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I think that's another example of us not being street smart, Maatsen's body language very apologetic and Ramsey should have been encouraging a yellow card for him diving.
But yes, game lost by then any road.
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I think that's another example of us not being street smart, Maatsen's body language very apologetic and Ramsey should have been encouraging a yellow card for him diving.
But yes, game lost by then any road.
Now this I agree with and it goes back a long long way. Think back the Enkelman at The Sty, 23 years ago no less and THAT goal. No keeper playing for any top club would of done what he did that night. All he had to do was laugh casually and throw the ball straight back to Mellberg. Instead he put his hands together on his head and had a look of "oh no what have I done" on his face. He literally convinced the ref to award the goal. It seems that we have learnt nothing over those years.
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I talked about this on Sunday, Amad clearly creates the contact by stepping across and stopping, giving Maatsen nowhere to go. He either barges into him and gives a pen and risks a red card or he tries to stop and does what he did.
Just like the Duran red earlier in the season sometimes contact is unavoidable in a contact sport.
What really pisses me off is that this sort of "there was contact it's a foul" never applies when a big twat of a centre back gives a striker a 2 handed shove in the back as they jump for a header, even though it happens a lot more and has far more impact on the game than these tangle of legs type incidents.
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The problem is the incositency.
Looks the the non red in the FA cup final, compared to Emi's sending off.
The standard of refereeing needs to improve - and the subjectivity in the rules needs to be reduced. Or we just go back to having a referee decide it all.
We currently end up the worst of both worlds. A game that is full of delays and still plenty of refereeing mistakes.
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Twat. I was going to add as much as the focus is on the key moment it’s shit like this, their penalty that gets glossed over time and again. Not just against us as much as it feels that way, but against everyone.
https://x.com/b6nigel/status/1927112042806124893?s=46
Clear from the ref's reaction there that he didn't really know what had happened and was speaking to someone on his mic.
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The FA Cup non-red problem was the ref and more precisely the lino missed it initially. Attwell saw the keeper touch it but as Ludo played as if nothing untoward had happened he probably thought it was in the box or Ludo had kicked it instead. The lino was 10 yards back and not actually looking so couldn't call anything. Now either VAR fucked up by not sending the ref to the monitors for a potential red card offence, or because it wasn't violent conduct and the ref didn't call the foul, it might not have been able to intervene. They have been involved for DOGSO before but mainly when the ref has called the initial foul but missed the potential GSO (the other month against Citeh when the keeper was well out of goal and a long range shot was on comes to mind). I don't remember any time they have been involved in a DOGSO when a foul happened outside the box and not initially called a foul by the ref.
I actually think the FA Cup match swung the decision yesterday. Martinez definitely tackles the player and it should definitely be a foul called. But the ball being kicked to the side and away from goal really reduced the GSO option and the definite red especially with a defender running back to goal. But as the defender running back was Torres and the ref would have read on here that he's shit, I suppose the covering defender needs to be removed. But then the striker was Holjund so.......
I not stating it wasn't a red, just showing the decisions are as subjective as ever so consistency is hard to call for.
Still waiting on comments from Webb for both of those decisions and the release of the audio though.......
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I am sick of hearing/reading the barrage of comments along the lines of 'one decision doesn't make your season', 'it was a mistake - get over it' from Talk Sport, Jonathan Wilson to name but two. The cold light of day fact is that, despite being battered, despite being down to ten men we had somehow weathered the storm and were finally putting something together when 'that decision' was made. That's what made the difference (probably) between CL and EL with all its implications, not the previous 38 games.
Over a season we weren't good enough . We should have been going into Sunday home and dry .
How many different days and ways can you keep saying this. It fucking pointless and shows zero understanding of the context of our season. It's obvious that if we had scored more points by 4.00 on Sunday we wouldn't have needed to beat Manure but we hadn't so when a part time premier league referee rocks up and steals a potentially winning goal with 15 minutes to go in a game we only potentially needed to draw that act becomes a major reason why lost. Yes we should have dusted ourselves off and focused - Unai's favourite word but he lost it too - i agree with Rugby twat on that point. Unai and our players lost focus. But if the goal is given none of that is likely to happen. So not having got enough points by 4.00 pm is irrelevant!
But it's them , at that place and we know what happens there . Since the fixtures came out last year people have regularly been saying I hope we don't need anything there on the last day . Well we did and it went as per expectations i.e. Down the pan .
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We are in a really bad situation with match officials. They're told not to put the flag up for offside and let it play out so var can decide and now we have a Forest player seriously injured. When do you stop a game? When don't you? Then there's penalty's for hand ball. I mean who bloody knows any more? They've got themselves in an absolute pickle with VAR and to make matter's worse they have deliberately altered the wording of the rules to give themselves wriggle room to get off the hook whenever they balls it up like they did in our game Sunday. VAR should be an asset but they've turned it into some kind of hard to watch freakshow with their often baffling and convoluted use of it.
PMGOL, VAR, or rather their use of it, Howard Webb and his troupe of dodgy officials are all not fit for purpose. Time to tear the whole thing down and start again.
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Twat. I was going to add as much as the focus is on the key moment it’s shit like this, their penalty that gets glossed over time and again. Not just against us as much as it feels that way, but against everyone.
https://x.com/b6nigel/status/1927112042806124893?s=46
Clear from the ref's reaction there that he didn't really know what had happened and was speaking to someone on his mic.
The conversation with VAR went a little like this.
VAR: Thomas if you’re not sure give the penalty because we always give penalties to “United” at The Theatre of Dreams, and especially against Aston Villa.
Bramall: duh…ok (Goofy voice)
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The FA Cup non-red problem was the ref and more precisely the lino missed it initially. Attwell saw the keeper touch it but as Ludo played as if nothing untoward had happened he probably thought it was in the box or Ludo had kicked it instead. The lino was 10 yards back and not actually looking so couldn't call anything. Now either VAR fucked up by not sending the ref to the monitors for a potential red card offence, or because it wasn't violent conduct and the ref didn't call the foul, it might not have been able to intervene. They have been involved for DOGSO before but mainly when the ref has called the initial foul but missed the potential GSO (the other month against Citeh when the keeper was well out of goal and a long range shot was on comes to mind). I don't remember any time they have been involved in a DOGSO when a foul happened outside the box and not initially called a foul by the ref.
I actually think the FA Cup match swung the decision yesterday. Martinez definitely tackles the player and it should definitely be a foul called. But the ball being kicked to the side and away from goal really reduced the GSO option and the definite red especially with a defender running back to goal. But as the defender running back was Torres and the ref would have read on here that he's shit, I suppose the covering defender needs to be removed. But then the striker was Holjund so.......
I not stating it wasn't a red, just showing the decisions are as subjective as ever so consistency is hard to call for.
Still waiting on comments from Webb for both of those decisions and the release of the audio though.......
I agree with most of this. I think it was an orange card situation really, the touch from Holjund was awful and forced him really wide to the point where it was a tough chance if he'd been allowed to run through, which should be a small factor. However Emi made it look a clear red by being so fucking blatant about what he was doing. If he'd turned away and made it look like he was trying to chase after the ball I think it may well have been a yellow, and he definitely had enough time to do exactly that. He was obviously trying to make out that he just couldn't get out of the way and so he braced himself for impact but you'd have to be a fucking idiot to buy it.
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Twat. I was going to add as much as the focus is on the key moment it’s shit like this, their penalty that gets glossed over time and again. Not just against us as much as it feels that way, but against everyone.
https://x.com/b6nigel/status/1927112042806124893?s=46
Clear from the ref's reaction there that he didn't really know what had happened and was speaking to someone on his mic.
The conversation with VAR went a little like this.
VAR: Thomas if you’re not sure give the penalty because we always give penalties to “United” at The Theatre of Dreams, and especially against Aston Villa.
Bramall: duh…ok (Goofy voice)
VAR has changed things in that regard. Not saying it happened in this case, but it's much easier to give a penalty now knowing VAR can check it and the 'clear and obvious' approach means there is very little chance it will be overturned, as opposed to facing the ignominy of being sent to a screen and having to reverse your decision if you don't give it.
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The FA Cup non-red problem was the ref and more precisely the lino missed it initially. Attwell saw the keeper touch it but as Ludo played as if nothing untoward had happened he probably thought it was in the box or Ludo had kicked it instead. The lino was 10 yards back and not actually looking so couldn't call anything. Now either VAR fucked up by not sending the ref to the monitors for a potential red card offence, or because it wasn't violent conduct and the ref didn't call the foul, it might not have been able to intervene. They have been involved for DOGSO before but mainly when the ref has called the initial foul but missed the potential GSO (the other month against Citeh when the keeper was well out of goal and a long range shot was on comes to mind). I don't remember any time they have been involved in a DOGSO when a foul happened outside the box and not initially called a foul by the ref.
I actually think the FA Cup match swung the decision yesterday. Martinez definitely tackles the player and it should definitely be a foul called. But the ball being kicked to the side and away from goal really reduced the GSO option and the definite red especially with a defender running back to goal. But as the defender running back was Torres and the ref would have read on here that he's shit, I suppose the covering defender needs to be removed. But then the striker was Holjund so.......
I not stating it wasn't a red, just showing the decisions are as subjective as ever so consistency is hard to call for.
Still waiting on comments from Webb for both of those decisions and the release of the audio though.......
I agree with most of this. I think it was an orange card situation really, the touch from Holjund was awful and forced him really wide to the point where it was a tough chance if he'd been allowed to run through, which should be a small factor. However Emi made it look a clear red by being so fucking blatant about what he was doing. If he'd turned away and made it look like he was trying to chase after the ball I think it may well have been a yellow, and he definitely had enough time to do exactly that. He was obviously trying to make out that he just couldn't get out of the way and so he braced himself for impact but you'd have to be a fucking idiot to buy it.
Completely agree. I think Emi could have quite easily made it look accidental and he really, really didn't.
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Twat. I was going to add as much as the focus is on the key moment it’s shit like this, their penalty that gets glossed over time and again. Not just against us as much as it feels that way, but against everyone.
https://x.com/b6nigel/status/1927112042806124893?s=46
Clear from the ref's reaction there that he didn't really know what had happened and was speaking to someone on his mic.
Lino and fourth official if anything like the audio released for the Duran red card. You know the one that beforehand was being praised on not rushing to judgement and then later the audio showed both the lino and fourth both said accidental and then the ref saw he was holding his thigh and rushed for his red card at the spur of the moment. And of course VAR just looked at the contact and sided with him.
Another one that would have been nice hearing the audio for though as lino called nothing (do they even flag for fouls in front of them anymore?)
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Former Newcastle and Aston Villa goalkeer Shay Given said Bramall will "learn" and "grow" from this situation. "Let's not forget Thomas Bramall is a human being," he added.
"I find it more difficult when VAR with all different angles make wrong decisions. This guy has just made a human error, it's more forgivable."
More wise words from the former Newcastle goalie (previously castigating Mings for being fouled and not being sent off v Bournemouth).
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Twat. I was going to add as much as the focus is on the key moment it’s shit like this, their penalty that gets glossed over time and again. Not just against us as much as it feels that way, but against everyone.
https://x.com/b6nigel/status/1927112042806124893?s=46
Clear from the ref's reaction there that he didn't really know what had happened and was speaking to someone on his mic.
The conversation with VAR went a little like this.
VAR: Thomas if you’re not sure give the penalty because we always give penalties to “United” at The Theatre of Dreams, and especially against Aston Villa.
Bramall: duh…ok (Goofy voice)
More like:
"Just give the peno, if its 2-0 they can't say your mistake was decisive"
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Twat. I was going to add as much as the focus is on the key moment it’s shit like this, their penalty that gets glossed over time and again. Not just against us as much as it feels that way, but against everyone.
https://x.com/b6nigel/status/1927112042806124893?s=46
Notice how he's dying in agony, that's what we have too learn
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United fan here, you want to be a big club then you have to eat what happened to you and move on. Being a big club means you will have years in which u miss out by the smallest fractions. United had Cantona banned for a season, we miss out on title final day by 1 point. Same thing with the season Ferdinand was banned. Then u have QPR against City. As soon as QPR learn the other game is over and thus they are safe from relegation, they roll over and concede two goals in injury time, then celebrate with City fans - we lost that league on goal difference. Being a big club means shit happens and sometimes to you.
You wanna know who should be depressed, Forest fans. They spent most of the year in 3rd then fuck up royally their last 10 games. They will not be in a position for champions league again this decade.
If you guys had been in any way decent, then fair enough -you'd deserve the sympathy. But do you really think Newcastle deserve to miss out on champs league because another dickhead United goalkeeper decides to gift the opposition. You didn't create anything, you had no good moments. If it was reversed and we somehow gifted a toothless newcastle side a goal out of nothing, how would you feel missing out because of that? You didn't earn it at any moment on that pitch.
When the goal was disallowed, your manager should have called a bunch of the players to the sideline instead of jumping around like a mad kangaroo and told them, 'hold this'. 0-0 got u in the champs league. Instead y'all were too emotional and blew up. Anyway, with some good signings in the summer I 100% expect you to be up and around the places next year, maybe heartbreak maybe a trophy - that is what you get following a big club.
Cantona and Ferdinand were banned for obvious reasons, the referee didn't follow the right V AR protocol on Sunday, which would have been drilled into him by senior referees officials week in week out, which we have seen used every game
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I saw a comment about the standard of refereeing in this country but I couldn't believe how bad some of the decisions in the Champions League were. I've come away from our campaign feeling like the refereeing there is worse.
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United fan here, you want to be a big club then you have to eat what happened to you and move on. Being a big club means you will have years in which u miss out by the smallest fractions. United had Cantona banned for a season, we miss out on title final day by 1 point. Same thing with the season Ferdinand was banned. Then u have QPR against City. As soon as QPR learn the other game is over and thus they are safe from relegation, they roll over and concede two goals in injury time, then celebrate with City fans - we lost that league on goal difference. Being a big club means shit happens and sometimes to you.
You wanna know who should be depressed, Forest fans. They spent most of the year in 3rd then fuck up royally their last 10 games. They will not be in a position for champions league again this decade.
If you guys had been in any way decent, then fair enough -you'd deserve the sympathy. But do you really think Newcastle deserve to miss out on champs league because another dickhead United goalkeeper decides to gift the opposition. You didn't create anything, you had no good moments. If it was reversed and we somehow gifted a toothless newcastle side a goal out of nothing, how would you feel missing out because of that? You didn't earn it at any moment on that pitch.
When the goal was disallowed, your manager should have called a bunch of the players to the sideline instead of jumping around like a mad kangaroo and told them, 'hold this'. 0-0 got u in the champs league. Instead y'all were too emotional and blew up. Anyway, with some good signings in the summer I 100% expect you to be up and around the places next year, maybe heartbreak maybe a trophy - that is what you get following a big club.
Oh, fuck off, will you, you dreadful twat.
Short of the return of Footy-Vill, I can't think of anything anyone wants to hear less than this right now.
And for the record, that's another "thing about supporting a big club" - arrogance. So fuck off, and stay fucked off.
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never debate football with a Man Utd fan
You should all know that by now
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Maatsen's "kindly" reaction to his "foul" on Diallo took the biscuit. Ian, don't fucking check if he's been injured while looking guilty. We need more players like Martínez outfield who don't take any shit from opposition players trying it on.
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what do you lot know about football, we were the original super club. We won the fa cup 6 times before you were anything. Newton heath wanker
United fan here, you want to be a big club then you have to eat what happened to you and move on. Being a big club means you will have years in which u miss out by the smallest fractions. United had Cantona banned for a season, we miss out on title final day by 1 point. Same thing with the season Ferdinand was banned. Then u have QPR against City. As soon as QPR learn the other game is over and thus they are safe from relegation, they roll over and concede two goals in injury time, then celebrate with City fans - we lost that league on goal difference. Being a big club means shit happens and sometimes to you.
You wanna know who should be depressed, Forest fans. They spent most of the year in 3rd then fuck up royally their last 10 games. They will not be in a position for champions league again this decade.
If you guys had been in any way decent, then fair enough -you'd deserve the sympathy. But do you really think Newcastle deserve to miss out on champs league because another dickhead United goalkeeper decides to gift the opposition. You didn't create anything, you had no good moments. If it was reversed and we somehow gifted a toothless newcastle side a goal out of nothing, how would you feel missing out because of that? You didn't earn it at any moment on that pitch.
When the goal was disallowed, your manager should have called a bunch of the players to the sideline instead of jumping around like a mad kangaroo and told them, 'hold this'. 0-0 got u in the champs league. Instead y'all were too emotional and blew up. Anyway, with some good signings in the summer I 100% expect you to be up and around the places next year, maybe heartbreak maybe a trophy - that is what you get following a big club.
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I would have liked to have heard more about his training under Gary Shaw, mind.
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United fan here, you want to be a big club then you have to eat what happened to you and move on. Being a big club means you will have years in which u miss out by the smallest fractions. United had Cantona banned for a season, we miss out on title final day by 1 point. Same thing with the season Ferdinand was banned. Then u have QPR against City. As soon as QPR learn the other game is over and thus they are safe from relegation, they roll over and concede two goals in injury time, then celebrate with City fans - we lost that league on goal difference. Being a big club means shit happens and sometimes to you.
You wanna know who should be depressed, Forest fans. They spent most of the year in 3rd then fuck up royally their last 10 games. They will not be in a position for champions league again this decade.
If you guys had been in any way decent, then fair enough -you'd deserve the sympathy. But do you really think Newcastle deserve to miss out on champs league because another dickhead United goalkeeper decides to gift the opposition. You didn't create anything, you had no good moments. If it was reversed and we somehow gifted a toothless newcastle side a goal out of nothing, how would you feel missing out because of that? You didn't earn it at any moment on that pitch.
When the goal was disallowed, your manager should have called a bunch of the players to the sideline instead of jumping around like a mad kangaroo and told them, 'hold this'. 0-0 got u in the champs league. Instead y'all were too emotional and blew up. Anyway, with some good signings in the summer I 100% expect you to be up and around the places next year, maybe heartbreak maybe a trophy - that is what you get following a big club.
Some of that is a false equivalency though.
Cantona and Ferdinand were correctly banned so there’s nothing to complain about there is there. Don’t assault a fan or miss a drug test.
And if you think back to the champions league final in 99, you were sh*t and got battered all game long, with Bayern hitting the woodwork at least twice. Then you scrapped a win at the death. In a similar way, we got battered on Sunday but legitimately scored against the run of play. The difference is, that our goal was incorrectly ruled out and we didn’t achieve something we could have.
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Dave W announced the bloke has been banned, so no need to reply to him 🙂
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Dave W announced the bloke has been banned, so no need to reply to him 🙂
Oh. I must have missed that lol.
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Dave W announced the bloke has been banned, so no need to reply to him 🙂
Oh. I must have missed that lol.
Yeah, just wanted to save anyone the time and effort of bothering to reply!
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A pity, I'd like him to rebutt Leon's points.
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First time I've seen the penalty 'foul'. Fucking hell.
He should've booked the cheating little twat for the rolling and fluttering hand. Maatsen's concern is baffling.
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First time I've seen the penalty 'foul'. Fucking hell.
He should've booked the cheating little twat for the rolling and fluttering hand. Maatsen's concern is baffling.
Yeah same as luckily was out Sunday at a gig so missed the shitshow. As bad as any penalty ever given against us versus Man Utd. Their player blatantly cheated and feigned serious injury.
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I did mention that Bruno had been doing extra training sessions with the Man Utd youngsters.
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First time I've seen the penalty 'foul'. Fucking hell.
He should've booked the cheating little twat for the rolling and fluttering hand. Maatsen's concern is baffling.
Agreed!! WTF is Maatsen doing other than making it easier for the ref to give a penalty? The mindset truly boggles.
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First time I've seen the penalty 'foul'. Fucking hell.
He should've booked the cheating little twat for the rolling and fluttering hand. Maatsen's concern is baffling.
Agreed!! WTF is Maatsen doing other than making it easier for the ref to give a penalty? The mindset truly boggles.
I really don't think empathy should be considered a negative trait but football really needs to adopt the idea of a 'sporting incident' for things like this. Maatsen did land on his ankle, that's undeniable, but the argument should be around whether that constitutes foul play or if it's just that he had to put his foot down and he had little choice but to land in the same place as Diallo. Checking the guy is ok after a completely accidental collision shouldn't be used as a sign of guilt to award a penalty.
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Can't we sunset this thread now? It's depressing enough to see it at the top of the main board, let alone read it.
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urgh i hate them so much
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Sunset as a verb? Sounds Gen-Zish but fuck it, it's a good a word as any to end this ordeal.
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Yeh let’s put it in the garage.
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Yeh let’s put it in the garage.
Don't be so la-di-da.
But yeah, let's stick this thread in the car hole.
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Please can we just archive this thread? I've got cricket to concentrate on tomorrow FFS.
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File it alongside Palace / Stoke / Bradford / Oldham etc.
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Please can we just archive this thread? I've got cricket to concentrate on tomorrow FFS.
No, fuck that, someone print it out, we'll then torch it and dance around its burning embers, sure that we're free of it, and at that exact moment Legion can press the delete thread button.
What could go wrong?
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Please bin this thread for the sake of my sanity.
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This thread is sad. Make it go away.
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Send it to the farm.
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86 it
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I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure
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One aspect of the disallowed goal on Sunday that I haven’t seen mentioned is the lack of a screen in Old Trafford. Those of us in the ground had no idea of what was going on apart from VAR being involved as the ref had his finger in his ear. All they have is a small notice board with the team names, score and time. It’s the same at Anfield.
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One aspect of the disallowed goal on Sunday that I haven’t seen mentioned is the lack of a screen in Old Trafford. Those of us in the ground had no idea of what was going on apart from VAR being involved as the ref had his finger in his ear. All they have is a small notice board with the team names, score and time. It’s the same at Anfield.
They were about to install one but they had to spend the money on fixing the roof.
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I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure
I've pressed the button.. It'll take a little while but you'd may as well delete it from your browser and bookmarks..
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Please can we just archive this thread? I've got cricket to concentrate on tomorrow FFS.
No, fuck that, someone print it out, we'll then torch it and dance around its burning embers, sure that we're free of it, and at that exact moment Legion can press the delete thread button.
What could go wrong?
We did that with a half and half scarf we found after the 2015 FA Cup final which didn't happen.
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Please can we just archive this thread? I've got cricket to concentrate on tomorrow FFS.
No, fuck that, someone print it out, we'll then torch it and dance around its burning embers, sure that we're free of it, and at that exact moment Legion can press the delete thread button.
What could go wrong?
We did that with a half and half scarf we found after the 2015 FA Cup final which didn't happen.
You could have taken it off the Arsenal supporter first.
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Ha!
Has anyone heard anything from the Refs' body or PGMOL about this farce or is this just regarded as the normal way things are done at OT?