Manchester Utd v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[Crown Hill]

And Wood had a big chance at the end.

One thought occurs to me. It’s not beyond the realms that Cov supporting Attwell would have upheld the ref’s decision even if he hadn’t blown his whistle!

I think I mentioned in passing that it wasn't guaranteed that Atwell would have given the goal even if he had the chance. Although I would like to think that when even Gallagher and Dean was stating it should have been a goal that even Atwell, probably already on caution for missing the blatant handball the week before, would have given the foul on the keeper.

That would of been very interesting as there was definitely no foul on the keeper.

Manchester United supporters already claiming it was in two hands and rogers trod on his hand. Attwell (it is double T btw) in a room on his own would have been a law unto himself specially given his obvious dislike of the Villa!

[Somniloquism]

You can see where VAR is concerned and VAR kicks in its so vague, I mean, how do we actually know the ref blew his whistle and when, how do we know he had blown his whistle before the ball had crossed the line, how do we know that for a fact.

Listening normally helps.

[paul_e]

So, are you genuinely arguing that there would be a problem if VAR reviewed the decision?

Not what is the letter of the law, but with play stopped (with the ball in the back of the net), sending the ref to the monitor to get the decision right has to be the only sensible outcome.

Otherwise, there is no point in VAR.

I'm stating simple concepts.

1: VAR is only involved for decisions on goals, penalties and red cards that happen when play is live on the pitch.

2: Play stops as soon as the ref blows his whistle. VAR can continue to look at live incidents that involve any of the three things that happened before the ref blows but not actions that happen after the ref blows. So if the ref had called the foul and the keeper then brought down Rogers for a penalty, the penalty wouldn't have been looked at as it happened after the whistle had blown, even though it wasn't a foul.

In our case, Ref blew his whistle a second before the ball crossed the line, so play stopped at that point without a goal being scored. VAR could check to see if the ball crossed the line before the whistle, and if it had, then all you mention above could then happen. As it didn't, they couldn't do anything else under the rules of the game as a simple foul is not checked by VAR. The mistake is definitely the refs as he took the decision off VAR and nothing could be done. Hence our letter of complaint is about the ref and not VAR.

You can see where VAR is concerned and VAR kicks in its so vague, I mean, how do we actually know the ref blew his whistle and when, how do we know he had blown his whistle before the ball had crossed the line, how do we know that for a fact.

Because you can hear it? He blows up just as Rogers strikes the ball and it's very clear. Watching live I heard it and hoped it was slightly later but I didn't think the goal would stand.

[Somniloquism]

Manchester United supporters already claiming it was in two hands and rogers trod on his hand. Attwell (it is double T btw) in a room on his own would have been a law unto himself specially given his obvious dislike of the Villa!

He isn't in a room by himself though. But we will never know as the decision was taken out of his hands anyway.

[BoVillan esq]

So, are you genuinely arguing that there would be a problem if VAR reviewed the decision?

Not what is the letter of the law, but with play stopped (with the ball in the back of the net), sending the ref to the monitor to get the decision right has to be the only sensible outcome.

Otherwise, there is no point in VAR.

I'm stating simple concepts.

1: VAR is only involved for decisions on goals, penalties and red cards that happen when play is live on the pitch.

2: Play stops as soon as the ref blows his whistle. VAR can continue to look at live incidents that involve any of the three things that happened before the ref blows but not actions that happen after the ref blows. So if the ref had called the foul and the keeper then brought down Rogers for a penalty, the penalty wouldn't have been looked at as it happened after the whistle had blown, even though it wasn't a foul.

In our case, Ref blew his whistle a second before the ball crossed the line, so play stopped at that point without a goal being scored. VAR could check to see if the ball crossed the line before the whistle, and if it had, then all you mention above could then happen. As it didn't, they couldn't do anything else under the rules of the game as a simple foul is not checked by VAR. The mistake is definitely the refs as he took the decision off VAR and nothing could be done. Hence our letter of complaint is about the ref and not VAR.

You can see where VAR is concerned and VAR kicks in its so vague, I mean, how do we actually know the ref blew his whistle and when, how do we know he had blown his whistle before the ball had crossed the line, how do we know that for a fact.

Because you can hear it? He blows up just as Rogers strikes the ball and it's very clear. Watching live I heard it and hoped it was slightly later but I didn't think the goal would stand.

So you can actually hear that, at that moment, I was speaking to a couple of lads today, local hear, they was at the game, not far away and they said they couldn't hear a god damn thing at any point, they could see he had the whistle to his mouth but that was it. but of course you have to take on board they would have had a few pints, the mayhem that was going on, who knows, but its interesting.

[Somniloquism]

I agree Cash's back pass was poor, personally I think he was looking for Konsa or Torres and was in 2 minds with Martinez being there, but if you look at the incident from pretty much all angles what Martinez did was nothing short of astonishing, Torres was already on his way back to cover, the ball was going away from from goal and above all that he must have known that Højlund and actually lost control of the ball, he would never have scored in a million years, I have no doubt Cash was initially at fault but once the error occurred after that, Martinez was amazing.

I suspect it was because he was right next to a pitchside mic, but the connection on the ball sounded really solid so for it to move so slowly afterwards was a shock. But there was no way he was looking for Konsa or Torres as they were level with him on the halfway line.

[BoVillan esq]

I agree Cash's back pass was poor, personally I think he was looking for Konsa or Torres and was in 2 minds with Martinez being there, but if you look at the incident from pretty much all angles what Martinez did was nothing short of astonishing, Torres was already on his way back to cover, the ball was going away from from goal and above all that he must have known that Højlund and actually lost control of the ball, he would never have scored in a million years, I have no doubt Cash was initially at fault but once the error occurred after that, Martinez was amazing.

I suspect it was because he was right next to a pitchside mic, but the connection on the ball sounded really solid so for it to move so slowly afterwards was a shock. But there was no way he was looking for Konsa or Torres as they were level with him on the halfway line.

Yeah you can see that, easy for us but if Cash's awareness was in question at that point, not aware of Konsa or Torres, exactly where they are, plus the split decision thing at the time, he would see Martinez rushing out of goal towards him, judging Martinez pace towrds him and him thinking this much pressure on the ball, you can see where all this could go wrong, no question it was a weak pass and bad judgement.

[BoVillan esq]

Manchester United supporters already claiming it was in two hands and rogers trod on his hand. Attwell (it is double T btw) in a room on his own would have been a law unto himself specially given his obvious dislike of the Villa!

He isn't in a room by himself though. But we will never know as the decision was taken out of his hands anyway.

They( Man Utd fans) are going to claim everything, he didn't have the ball under his control, he didn't have both hands on the ball or even one hand on the ball controlling it, the ball was in constant motion, that's why Rogers went for it, it was loose. the keeper didn't not have the ball under his control at any point. 

[ez]

It looked like the goalkeeper had the ball in his hands and then dropped it again. Fair play to Rogers to be alert to it.

[brontebilly]

I agree Cash's back pass was poor, personally I think he was looking for Konsa or Torres and was in 2 minds with Martinez being there, but if you look at the incident from pretty much all angles what Martinez did was nothing short of astonishing, Torres was already on his way back to cover, the ball was going away from from goal and above all that he must have known that Højlund and actually lost control of the ball, he would never have scored in a million years, I have no doubt Cash was initially at fault but once the error occurred after that, Martinez was amazing.

I suspect it was because he was right next to a pitchside mic, but the connection on the ball sounded really solid so for it to move so slowly afterwards was a shock. But there was no way he was looking for Konsa or Torres as they were level with him on the halfway line.

He was looking for Martinez who should have been a good 5-10 yards higher up. Konsa hid from the pass so wasn't an option. Maybe if Hojlund scores it actually settles us, we had froze up to then. There was absolutely no excuse for what Martinez did next, still can't believe it.

[Rudy65]

If it’s a mentality thing and we always crumble in the big games. Then how does PSG, Bayern, Newcastle, Man City at home happen. Why didn’t we crumble and lose 5 when 2 down at Arsenal. I don’t get it, were they not big games?

I might be wrong but for me, it’s more we got the tactics wrong yesterday and at Wembley, then struggle to change things when it doesn’t work, more so than we collapse mentally.

They’re home games apart from Arsenal. The big games away against the top 6 were awful. Losing 5 out of 6 and drawing 1. That’s poor by any reckoning and has cost us big time

[BoVillan esq]

If it’s a mentality thing and we always crumble in the big games. Then how does PSG, Bayern, Newcastle, Man City at home happen. Why didn’t we crumble and lose 5 when 2 down at Arsenal. I don’t get it, were they not big games?

I might be wrong but for me, it’s more we got the tactics wrong yesterday and at Wembley, then struggle to change things when it doesn’t work, more so than we collapse mentally.

They’re home games apart from Arsenal. The big games away against the top 6 were awful. Losing 5 out of 6 and drawing 1. That’s poor by any reckoning and has cost us big time

This is right, if you actually take on board the state we was in around Christmas time, then Monchi worked what can only be considered as a minor miracle, the fact we finished 6th and in the Europa Cup, nothing short of incredible, I dread to think had we no got Rashford and Asesnio in where we would have been.

[baddowvillans]

So, are you genuinely arguing that there would be a problem if VAR reviewed the decision?

Not what is the letter of the law, but with play stopped (with the ball in the back of the net), sending the ref to the monitor to get the decision right has to be the only sensible outcome.

Otherwise, there is no point in VAR.

I'm stating simple concepts.

1: VAR is only involved for decisions on goals, penalties and red cards that happen when play is live on the pitch.

2: Play stops as soon as the ref blows his whistle. VAR can continue to look at live incidents that involve any of the three things that happened before the ref blows but not actions that happen after the ref blows. So if the ref had called the foul and the keeper then brought down Rogers for a penalty, the penalty wouldn't have been looked at as it happened after the whistle had blown, even though it wasn't a foul.

In our case, Ref blew his whistle a second before the ball crossed the line, so play stopped at that point without a goal being scored. VAR could check to see if the ball crossed the line before the whistle, and if it had, then all you mention above could then happen. As it didn't, they couldn't do anything else under the rules of the game as a simple foul is not checked by VAR. The mistake is definitely the refs as he took the decision off VAR and nothing could be done. Hence our letter of complaint is about the ref and not VAR.

You can see where VAR is concerned and VAR kicks in its so vague, I mean, how do we actually know the ref blew his whistle and when, how do we know he had blown his whistle before the ball had crossed the line, how do we know that for a fact.

Er......... Because we heard him blow it.  It's clearly audible on the footage!

[RamboandBruno]

I just said to my 15 year old, never mind about yesterday, we played really crap etc. he just said back, its not about playing well its about scoring and winning, we scored a good goal and was robbed by a bad decision.
Literally quoted him verbatim.
Summed it up quite well really.

[Pat McMahon]

The worst thing about yesterday was that our run of really tasty gravy and chips around Manchester stadiums came to a horrible end.  :'(

Under-cooked chips, thin gravy… utterly disgraceful what was served up.

Can’t bring myself to think about chips now.

Chips and gravy is a sin against chips anyway 😊