Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Off Topic => Sports Arena => Topic started by: Dave Cooper please on January 02, 2013, 05:11:51 PM
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I'll start it then.
ODI's in India coming up, not overly hopeful but that and the NZ Tests are simply a prelude to TEN consecutive tests against The Convicts, oh yes!
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Looking at the Kiwi's performance against the Saffers on day one of the 1st test I think we should stuff them.
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I really enjoy watching Test cricket in NZ on the TV, the grounds are really picturesque. So I'm looking forward to that series, and we should hammer them. I'm confident about the Ashes, but I think the Aussies will put up a stern Test. We need to nail down that number 6 position, I guess Root is in possession at the moment. Also need to confirm Cooks opening partner(who also could potentially be Root) and try and sort out Broad's form.
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I'd have thought that the opening slot is still Compton's to lose.
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I'd have thought so too, but he needs to start getting scores. He's been solid but getting in and then getting out. So I wouldn't say he's assured for the Ashes yet.
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I really enjoy watching Test cricket in NZ on the TV, the grounds are really picturesque. So I'm looking forward to that series, and we should hammer them. I'm confident about the Ashes, but I think the Aussies will put up a stern Test. We need to nail down that number 6 position, I guess Root is in possession at the moment. Also need to confirm Cooks opening partner(who also could potentially be Root) and try and sort out Broad's form.
Funny shaped if they play rugby on them as well.
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The SCG when completed next year will have its own micro brewery.Villa Park needs one NOW.
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I'd have thought so too, but he needs to start getting scores. He's been solid but getting in and then getting out. So I wouldn't say he's assured for the Ashes yet.
Compton has to start the first test, he played in about the worst conditions imaginable for a player coming from english conditions and held his own. He does need to get some big scores but so far he's done a great job of seeing off the new ball which is what we need, particularly when Cook and KP (and hopefully Bell and Trott now we're out of the sub-continent) are firing and getting the big runs at the other end.
If he hasn't started posting big scores by his 10th test then the spot becomes open again but for now he deserves a chance to build on a decent start.
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Yeah I'm not saying he shouldn't have first crack, but he isn't by any means cemented in that role.
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I really enjoy watching Test cricket in NZ on the TV, the grounds are really picturesque. So I'm looking forward to that series, and we should hammer them. I'm confident about the Ashes, but I think the Aussies will put up a stern Test. We need to nail down that number 6 position, I guess Root is in possession at the moment. Also need to confirm Cooks opening partner(who also could potentially be Root) and try and sort out Broad's form.
Funny shaped if they play rugby on them as well.
Only Eden Park in Auckland for tests nowadays. Most of the other grounds are Cricket only, the best being the Basin Reserve in Wellington.
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Batting nicely in India at the moment.
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How is Prior not in our ODI side? we've possibly cocked this up.
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Patel did a very good job there in the end. 325-4 good score.
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Root has bowled really nicely. Could potentially be a batting all rounder for us.
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India 171/3 29 overs Yuvraj kicking in now
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Dernbach seems to have gone backwards as a bowler, he's all over the place lately.
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Yuvraj out - Tredwell 3rd wkt 198-4 34.4 overs gonna be tight. Dhoni arrived at wkt
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Dernbach has come back and taken a couple of crucial wickets.
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45 required off 4 overs
281- 7
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29 off 16 needed gonna be tight
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18 off last over required only 1 wkt in hand
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Englandwin by 9 runs.
If we had lost South Africa would have took over as 50 over No.1
We had lost 13 successive ODI's in a row in India. So a great win!!!
Good start for King of Spain. Possible MOM for Belly for his 85.
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Dernbach has come back and taken a couple of crucial wickets.
If dernbach bowled spells like his last few overs more often he could be fantastic, I think the problem is that his value has always been in his variation but he's trying too hard to make every ball different. When he does well it's by bowling straight, full and altering the pace, recently he seems to be trying to change thge angles and length a lot more, and he's become wayward.
Great start from Bell and Cook, brilliant finisher job from Patel and then a excellent performance with the ball from Tredwell. Picking between the 4 of them for MOM is tough as they all did their job exactly as needed.
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Well done England and Ashley!
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Good start for King of Spain. Possible MOM for Belly for his 85.
MOM Tredwell by a mile. 4-44 on that wicket was brilliant.
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82 runs from final six overs, horrendous.
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82 runs from final six overs, horrendous.
Only what we did to them the other day, Dhoni is the best finisher in one-day cricket. We can chase this down I reckon.
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Or maybe not.
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I really don't understand why Prior isn't in the ODI team.
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I really don't understand why Prior isn't in the ODI team.
Indeed, Keiswetter is the better choice in T20 where he can just swing at everything but his inability to rotate the strike effectively is too big a blocker on 50overs.
Hopefully Root can get a big score though, even if we lose this a big debut score from a very talented youngster will be a great positive to take away.
For what it's worth I think we'll fall short, eithe rby giving wickets away chasing the runs or by not getting the rate up, Our only chance is for this pair to post 50-60 each, at least.
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Well that's bollocks! We gave it away in the last ten overs of their innings. Went form 170 something to 285 in ten overs!
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Pretty diabolical display all round.
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Pretty diabolical display all round.
This
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How can we go from winning so well to being such toilet in a matter of days?
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How can we go from winning so well to being such toilet in a matter of days?
Totally different pitch and they picked a much better bowling line up, we also gave them a lot of impetus by letting Dhoni stack up the runs late on.
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It worries me how Kieswetter doesn't seem to be developing, he can only play one innings and he needs to learn to manoveur the ball around.
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It worries me how Kieswetter doesn't seem to be developing, he can only play one innings and he needs to learn to manoveur the ball around.
The manner of his dismissal was not of international standard. He reminded me of our current central defenders.
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It worries me how Kieswetter doesn't seem to be developing, he can only play one innings and he needs to learn to manoveur the ball around.
The manner of his dismissal was not of international standard. He reminded me of our current central defenders.
He doesn't have the range of shots to ease his way in and build an innings, he's a great T20 option due to his power, which means he can score quickly in the powerplay but without fielding retrictions in place he's not good enough.
If they persist with him he has to open and try to bat through the opening powerplay and, if he's still there, the batting powerplay straight after, coming in during the middle overs he's just going to do what he did yesterday. That shouldn't happe though because Bell and Cook look like a good opening pairing and we should persist with them.
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I'm not intending to leave the house today so I've planned a day of TV sport.
Got out of bed at about 8am and switched the TV on. Saw 3 wickets in 17 balls. Same old England in ODI's.
The King of Spain has got his hands full!
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Dismal batting again.
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'If you want a template for how not to play a one day innings watch England here, it was pathetic.' Nasser Hussain.
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Good delivery Finn.
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Dernbach just isn't very good at all.
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Dernbach just isn't very good at all.
He is very poor as is Meaker, Brennan tries hard and Woakes isnt quick enough.......
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Bresnan is not the same player since his elbow injury.
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I wouldn't give up on Woakes or Meaker yet, they're still young.
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amazing how 2 games ago we beat the best one day team in the world and a couple of indifferent performances we are shit! you just cannot change opinions like that and retain credibility!
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I really don't see how Jimmy Anderson and Matt Prior are not in that side.
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amazing how 2 games ago we beat the best one day team in the world and a couple of indifferent performances we are shit! you just cannot change opinions like that and retain credibility!
The win the other day was the oddity. The most charitable thing you can say is we're inconsistent in limited over cricket. However, Giles is new in the job and I just hope he can find the right balance in the side between bat and ball, and the stability in selection that has seen the test side flourish.
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I really don't see how Jimmy Anderson and Matt Prior are not in that side.
Resting.
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You cant really say that Matty Prior resting as he has been playing in the 'Big Bash' in Australia.
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Prior is never in the ODI side.
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No idea if that score is competitive or not but it sounds like the seamers were getting a lot of help out of the pitch so hopefully Finn can rip into them early on.
Why didn't rot come in at 4, he's a confident cricketer with a great range of shots, instead we wasted 16 balls for 4 runs with Morgan and Patel.
Sounds like the Cook dismissal is a real stinker.
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Gambhir gone to an iffy one.
Whatever happens from here the ICC need to force the issue with DRS in India, there have been too many things in this tour that shouldn't have happened, refusing the use the technology available is stupid.
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Another dreadful spell from Dernbach, I do wonder how he gets in the team.
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Finn's knee hitting the stumps costs us a wicket. It is absolutely nuts that this hasn't been coached out of him.
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Well done on Chris woakes making the test squad.
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Yep and Bresnan's elbow injury recurs again. I think he's done.
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Yep and Bresnan's elbow injury recurs again. I think he's done.
He'll be back after further surgery/rest.
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Yep and Bresnan's elbow injury recurs again. I think he's done.
He'll be back after further surgery/rest.
I think the elbow has taken a yard of pace off him. He might return, but I don't think he's good enough at International level now.
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Yep and Bresnan's elbow injury recurs again. I think he's done.
He'll be back after further surgery/rest.
I think the elbow has taken a yard of pace off him. He might return, but I don't think he's good enough at International level now.
I don't see why he can't get back to his previous levels of performance. If the injury is as bad as suggested then rest and possibly surgery should sort it out. It worked for KP and his achilies, why not Bressie?
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Well I hope he can, but he hasn't been up to it since the last Ashes really.
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Well I hope he can, but he hasn't been up to it since the last Ashes really.
That's the thing and a worry for me ahead of back to back Ashes series is that our much-vaunted fast bowling reserves are not what we thought.
Jimmy is untouchable and the leader of our attack. Broad hasn't kicked on; Finn has technical issues, Bresnan is woefully out of form, Onions is untried since his career-threatening injury, Woakes has no test experience and is probably a yard short of pace at test level, Dernbach isn't good enough and the also rans are all untried.
The Aussie group of quickies seem to get injured after a test so we're in for an interesting Ashes year!
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Bresnan performed today, so well done. Much better bowling display with Dernbach dropped.
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Great ton by Bell to see England home. Morgan looked in good touch too.
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Yep was impressive, nice to see Morgan getting some form as well.
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Well I hope he can, but he hasn't been up to it since the last Ashes really.
That's the thing and a worry for me ahead of back to back Ashes series is that our much-vaunted fast bowling reserves are not what we thought.
Jimmy is untouchable and the leader of our attack. Broad hasn't kicked on; Finn has technical issues, Bresnan is woefully out of form, Onions is untried since his career-threatening injury, Woakes has no test experience and is probably a yard short of pace at test level, Dernbach isn't good enough and the also rans are all untried.
The Aussie group of quickies seem to get injured after a test so we're in for an interesting Ashes year!
Although they are very similar, Onions and Jimmy have bowled well in tandem in the past. Tremlett is a beast when fit. Hopefully, Broad resting might get his pace back. I'd agree about Finn, Bresnan and Dernbach though.
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Finn has technical issues but he's plenty good enough and should be playing in the Ashes for me. He is always a wicket taking threat.
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Well I hope he can, but he hasn't been up to it since the last Ashes really.
That's the thing and a worry for me ahead of back to back Ashes series is that our much-vaunted fast bowling reserves are not what we thought.
Jimmy is untouchable and the leader of our attack. Broad hasn't kicked on; Finn has technical issues, Bresnan is woefully out of form, Onions is untried since his career-threatening injury, Woakes has no test experience and is probably a yard short of pace at test level, Dernbach isn't good enough and the also rans are all untried.
The Aussie group of quickies seem to get injured after a test so we're in for an interesting Ashes year!
Although they are very similar, Onions and Jimmy have bowled well in tandem in the past. Tremlett is a beast when fit. Hopefully, Broad resting might get his pace back. I'd agree about Finn, Bresnan and Dernbach though.
Bresnan and Dernbach both have the same problem, they've stopped bowling to their strengths.
Dernbach will never be a test match bowler but he has the potential to be an excellent odi and t20 bowler. He needs to get his accuracy of line and length right and let the deviation come from the speed of the delivery. He has one of the best slow ball deliveries in world cricket but he's not getting enough from it because his line is so poor at the minute. Slightly full of a length and a tad outside off stump to the right handers and to the lefties he needs to go round the wicket, go a touch fuller still and angle in at off stump. The coaches really need to drill this into him as his stock delivery. It's a similar problem to what happened with Broad a few years back where he tried to become a better all round bowler and lost track of what he'd done to become an international bowler.
Bresnan is similar but has the added complication of a niggly injury that he can't shake off. I'd have rested him from the NZ matches and asked his county to go easy on him as well.
Onions needs some game time, he's potentially a great partner for Jimmy.
Broad is fine, he's a bit inconsistent but he still takes wickets and is always a threat.
Finn needs to correct his technique, he'll be the best bowler of the lot if he stops clipping the wickets and keeps improving as he has.
Woakes needs some ODI games to see if he can make the step up and importantly needs time with the bat in them. He's potentially a very good all rounder but he needs to get experience with bat and ball at the highest level.
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Very dominate win, impressive stuff.
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We're getting absolutely battered here.
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The frustrations of following Engalnd in the short format of the game!
We looked really good on Saturday and outclassed the Kiwis in every department. Today we looked a different team. The last 2 overs of the Kiwi innings were as bad as we've been for ages, 38 off 12 balls is unacceptable at International level.
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I think it's more that it shows you why t20 has forced it's way onto the top table. Minor changes can make a huge difference and, at international level, all the decent sides have the players to take the game away from you if you aren't right on your game. I love the psychological side of it as well, the last 2 overs from NZ won them the game not so much because of the runs but because of the momentum they generated, which the bowlers carried through.
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Evil Convict bitches lose to West Indies (on purpose, no doubt) to eliminate brave English girls from World Cup.
The coverage has been disgraceful, with the Indian host network only bothering to televise 10 of the 25 games. Surely if you want to host a World Cup it should be a pre-requisite that you at least show all the games live?
Anyway it'll be a Windies vs Sheilas Final. Come on WI.
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Three game T20 series and England destroy the Kiwis in two of them and get hammered in the third.
Another good all-round performance today with some violent hitting by Lumb and Hales.
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What an odd series that game was an absolute massacre.
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All tour series should be like this, the unpredictability of the result is great fun.
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Not sure I agree. I think the unpredictability on this sort of scale just implies that the results are random and it's not skill based. That's why although I enjoy Twenty20, I much prefer Tests as they identify the real best teams.
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I keep trying but I can't get into T20 at all, especially these games in NZ which have been on such small grounds that basically the bowlers have been on a hiding to nothing and it's just like watching a home run derby in baseball at times.
I can see the attraction if you have the attention span of your average ball sports fan, they want games over in less than three hours lots of action please, but T20 has basically become a game of "who has the batsmen with the biggest forearms".
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I enjoy all forms of cricket for different reasons, but if I had to choose one it would definitely be Tests. I love sitting down to watch a Test match day's play.
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Not sure I agree. I think the unpredictability on this sort of scale just implies that the results are random and it's not skill based. That's why although I enjoy Twenty20, I much prefer Tests as they identify the real best teams.
First things first, I much prefer test cricket and will always be a fan of that over all other forms.
What i like about T20 and think it adds to the game is the ramped up 'costs' for mistakes. 3-4 bad deliveries can be the difference between winning and losing, as can a dropped catch, or a poorly selected shot. It brings bad things as well, but there is an element of consistency that will come as a result of it. Test cricket to a large extent nullifies those mistakes, stepping over the rope while fielding in the deep meaning 2 runs become 4 isn't often going to decide the outcome of a test, but it can quite easily do that in T20.
I think we'll see more rounded players with better basics as a result of T20, you can't afford to be good with a bat but useless in the field and with the ball anymore, England have built the team around everyone offering something in at least 2 elements of the game, South Africa are the same and the 2 of them are the best sides around because of it. T20 is a great driver towards that.
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Yeah I guess that makes sense particularly on the importance of mistakes. I think Twenty20 will lead to a massive improvement in fielding. I do fear for batting though and think it could have a detriment in terms of players who are able to play long and determined innings.
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Yeah I guess that makes sense particularly on the importance of mistakes. I think Twenty20 will lead to a massive improvement in fielding. I do fear for batting though and think it could have a detriment in terms of players who are able to play long and determined innings.
That's the challenge for coaches really as that's mostly a mental thing, it's all about understanding when it's right to take risks, even in T20 there's a case for having 5-6 overs of sensible accumulation to get yourself set, having 30-40 on the board after 6 isn't a travesty if you go for 10 an over from there on.
I think the major change is that test cricket will continue to move towards 4 an over being average after sitting at just over 3 for a long long time.
I do think players like Boycott and Dravid who are happy to not score for 5-6 overs are probably going to disappear though, Compton is probably a good example of the newer 'wall' scoring deceptively fast at times and always looking to punish the poorer deliveries. I'm actually quite proud that English cricket seems to be ahead of the curve with this, Root is another who is happy defending and attacking, depending on the situation and again, he's had an education in T20.
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Root is going to be a fantastic player and his bowling could be really useful if it develops. He'd be my number 6 for England at the moment.
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Yeah I guess that makes sense particularly on the importance of mistakes. I think Twenty20 will lead to a massive improvement in fielding. I do fear for batting though and think it could have a detriment in terms of players who are able to play long and determined innings.
That's the challenge for coaches really as that's mostly a mental thing, it's all about understanding when it's right to take risks, even in T20 there's a case for having 5-6 overs of sensible accumulation to get yourself set, having 30-40 on the board after 6 isn't a travesty if you go for 10 an over from there on.
I think the major change is that test cricket will continue to move towards 4 an over being average after sitting at just over 3 for a long long time.
I do think players like Boycott and Dravid who are happy to not score for 5-6 overs are probably going to disappear though, Compton is probably a good example of the newer 'wall' scoring deceptively fast at times and always looking to punish the poorer deliveries. I'm actually quite proud that English cricket seems to be ahead of the curve with this, Root is another who is happy defending and attacking, depending on the situation and again, he's had an education in T20.
Morgan is a prime example of this. I love to watch him in one day games, his unorthodoxy is like a breath of fresh air. Unfortunately he seems unable to find the application needed to build a test innings.
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I keep trying but I can't get into T20 at all, especially these games in NZ which have been on such small grounds that basically the bowlers have been on a hiding to nothing and it's just like watching a home run derby in baseball at times.
I can see the attraction if you have the attention span of your average ball sports fan, they want games over in less than three hours lots of action please, but T20 has basically become a game of "who has the batsmen with the biggest forearms".
I think England's bowlers showed that if you're quick and are hitting the deck just short of a length on those type of pitches, that you can cause a side like NZ problems with your pace, as long as you're not going overboard with the shorter ball.
The way we strangled them today was excellent.
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Some tough negotiations to come on Central Contracts.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/604944.html
Let's hope the negotiations are concluded before the back to back Ashes series otherwise they could prove to be a distraction and disrupt team unity.
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Some tough negotiations to come on Central Contracts.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/604944.html
Let's hope the negotiations are concluded before the back to back Ashes series otherwise they could prove to be a distraction and disrupt team unity.
As disruptive as it may be the players are absolutely right as far as I'm concerned, which is why i was always on KPs side when this first erupted last year. Asking them to choose between representing their country or making a fortumne in the IPL, big bash, etc isn't fair and the ECB should be doing everything it can to allow players to go to those tournaments or offer them a reward for not going. I don't like players of any sport earning this kind of money because fundamentally that money comes from, at least in part, over-charging supporters, however, if nothing is in place to prevent these wages being offered then you can't really complain that the players want to be allowed to earn them.
How the ECB (and the RFU, with the french league with the rugby) are treating the players strikes me as spending a lot of time worrying about the effect and not really doing anything to address the cause.
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Bell and Trott getting a bit bogged down here. Just seen a Villa shirt from the 99/00 season in the crowd!!
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Blew that one then.
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Joe Root is a cracking player.
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Batting first, you have to be scoring 300+ to stand any chance on these pitches and with these small boundaries.
Root is looking very good, but the early wickets from Jimmy had a massive influence too.
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Yup, excellent bowling from Jimmy 5 for 33 on a small pitch where 290 would've been par is a great performance.
Root played his role to perfection and escalated the run rate exactly as you'd want from a top order batsman at that point, he is going to be a special talent for us.
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Yeah I only saw a couple of overs, but was surprised to hear the Kiwi commentator saying that Root and Trott look very similar paced. I think Root has quite a lot of ability as a 'hitter' as well.
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Yeah I only saw a couple of overs, but was surprised to hear the Kiwi commentator saying that Root and Trott look very similar paced. I think Root has quite a lot of ability as a 'hitter' as well.
He was saying Broad has lost a yard of pace too which I completely disagree with.
Root has a massive variety of shots, where as Trott bats the same way come what may. That's not a criticism, as his strike rate was up aroun 90 today.
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Trotty has a lot of critics but I think it helps a strike partner (Root in this case) to have someone alongside them who is solid.
Root did very well, especially for someone so early into their international career but he should have been out twice. Good to see him given the chance (Morgan could have been elevated) and taking it though. Given that Petersen or Bairstow aren't playing, there could be one or two selection dilemmas at some point.
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Nothing wrong with Trott, his strike rate in ODIs is 75, that compares well with most batting in the top three and, as showed today, having someone who you know will knudge and knurdle and keep the scoreboard ticking without getting out allows others to free their arms, Root will have loved having Trott opposite him today.
It's a fine balance though, if NZ had got the 300+ they should have got on that pitch and ground, would we have been better promoting Morgan or Buttler up the order?
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I think if NZ had scored more then Morgan and Buttler might have got a chance as England would have taken more risks. As it was, they didn't have to take any real risks and they chased down the target very sensibly and easily.
So to Auckland on Saturday for the decider.
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Joe Root is a cracking player.
Heard Alec Stewart on the radio earlier talking about the competition between Root and Compton to open with Cook in the test matches. I think Root is the long term option at opener and I would like to see us be positive and open with him and give someone else a chance at six (wouldn't mind giving Morgan another opportunity). I can see Compton opening though and Root being at six. I would say the rest of the team picks itself.
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Steven Finn's knee/stump problem is being addressed by a change to the laws:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/mcc/content/current/story/605852.html
Seems a sensible step but he needs to sort out his technique!
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I'm looking at India's bowling woes, what the hell happened to Praveen Kumar? He was really good when they toured England in 2011.
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Some real poor shots from the Aussies today. Clarke showed them how to play spin down there.
You wouldn't mind if it was an Ajmal or Swann, but I think the India spin attack is very ordinary.
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Steven Finn's knee/stump problem is being addressed by a change to the laws:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/mcc/content/current/story/605852.html
Seems a sensible step but he needs to sort out his technique!
Fair one, no balling it will stop the anomalies where some umpires let it go with a warning and others dead ball it. Finn is doing it less no but this will finally force him into cutting it out altogether.
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From what I can gather, he's been putting a lot of time into correcting it but still occasionally does them. It shows its a real problem for him and he'll still get caught out when the rules change. It's just something we've got to put up with until he's totally got it out of his system.
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Steven Finn's knee/stump problem is being addressed by a change to the laws:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/mcc/content/current/story/605852.html
Seems a sensible step but he needs to sort out his technique!
Fair one, no balling it will stop the anomalies where some umpires let it go with a warning and others dead ball it. Finn is doing it less no but this will finally force him into cutting it out altogether.
he has to cut it out altogether, yes he runs very centrally but not only the no ball proposition negative for the bowler but positive for the batter, he is surely risking injury if he continues. if you had a bowler clipping the stump with their finger you would advise move away a little bit.
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Good start tonight ...Finn's new run up coming up trumps - 2 early wkts for him plus Jimmy's 1. NZ 41 - 3 off 16.
Woakes bowling well 3 overs for 7
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NZ 64/4
Elliott Run Out
22.5 overs
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65/5 Taylor gone somewhat controversially caught behind off Broad 25 overs gone
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At Dubai airport now en route to NZ for a bit of touring and the first two tests - looks like our quicks could blow them away like SA did recently should be good watching.
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We should be able to beat them inside 3 days
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Great bowling performance and another mature performance from root with the bat, scored slowly but keep things calm at one end and let morgan do his stuff. The more I see him the more I think he has superstar written all over him.
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I see Dhoni got 206 not out against the Aussies.
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I see Dhoni got 206 not out against the Aussies.
206 off 243 balls is a remarkable scoring rate in test cricket, particularly in India.
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Australia are getting battered.
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Australia are getting battered.
That has perked me up this morning!
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Awful shot selection again.
This Portuguese looks a tidy player mind.
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Great bowling performance and another mature performance from root with the bat, scored slowly but keep things calm at one end and let morgan do his stuff. The more I see him the more I think he has superstar written all over him.
Heard one of the Sky commentators saying that he is very reminiscent of Mike Atherton and he does seem to have a similar technique.
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Crikey, has anybody else seen the Queenstown ground where England are playing the NZ XI?
Absolutely stunning (apart from a hidden airport).
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Henriques looks good. As far as England go I think we should really win this series 3-0, we're far stronger than NZ.
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Bell in good form during the warm up match!
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Bell in good form during the warm up match!
And Root again, he looks a cracking player.
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Crikey, has anybody else seen the Queenstown ground where England are playing the NZ XI?
Absolutely stunning (apart from a hidden airport).
Yes Ads, saw it on SSN this morning. Nearly jumped out of my skin when that aeroplane appeared just after it took off. What a place, one I would love to go too.
As for the series, as long as the weather is okay then we really should win 3-0. We are very firmly placed as the 2nd best team in the world after South Africa and should prove as much
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Commentary on day 2 tune in radio station name Radio Sport 1332 New Zealand.
Enjoy.
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Crikey, has anybody else seen the Queenstown ground where England are playing the NZ XI?
Absolutely stunning (apart from a hidden airport).
Yes Ads, saw it on SSN this morning. Nearly jumped out of my skin when that aeroplane appeared just after it took off. What a place, one I would love to go too.
As for the series, as long as the weather is okay then we really should win 3-0. We are very firmly placed as the 2nd best team in the world after South Africa and should prove as much
Was down in Central Otago at the beginning of the year (Queenstown, Wanaka, Arrowtown). They are all great places. Very hot in summer (can get up to 40c) and great skiing resorts in Winter. Beautiful scenery down that way with the mountains and lakes.
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On the TV New Zealand is always my favourite place to watch cricket, lots of the grounds have lovely surroundings.
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Poor from England to lose that warm up.
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Poor from England to lose that warm up.
No Finn or Anderson in the side, so not too much of a concern. It also ensure that any complacency has been shaken off before the the First Test.
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I'm not concerned as such, but we should be sharper than that.
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no great concerns from me as individually no one had a absolute shocker, we looked a bit toothless in attack but we were without 2 of our better seamers so no concern there either.
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I'd say Onions had an absolute shocker, but he won't be playing.
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Onions looked like a guy who was trying too hard for me.
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Aussies getting battered again. 😂
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Highlights how good our turn around was down in India.
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If you don't bowl well against india, in india, they have the quality to put on huge totals quickly and then, whilst their attack is poor in comparison, they wear teams down by making it difficult to score. We made a poor selection for the first match and didn't give ourselves suitable slow pitch bowling options, after that we were the better team against a side who are very strong at home, we always looked like having runs in us and we took regular wickets.
I actually think us and SA are quite a long way ahead of the rest of the test sides at the minute and I don't think there's much between us at all.
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I'd say SA and England are one and two by quite a distance, but there is a gap between the Saffers and us. They're a stronger side in most departments other than wicketkeeping and spinning.
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I'd say SA and England are one and two by quite a distance, but there is a gap between the Saffers and us. They're a stronger side in most departments other than wicketkeeping and spinning.
I'd say there are 2 differences. They have an established top 6, we haven't had a ' full' batting line up for a couple of years now and we've really struggled to get it balanced right at 6. They have probably the best all-rounder of all time, which gives them a great extra bowling option.
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I agree, but they are better for that reason.
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Is it 9.30 start tonight?
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Is it 9.30 start tonight?
It is
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Is it 9.30 start tonight?
It is
Fuck the football tonight,this is the big one.
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Is it 9.30 start tonight?
It is
Fuck the football tonight,this is the big one.
Quite right too.....not sure if i want to see us bat first or bowl....Anderson and Finn superb at moment. I know toss depends on conditions and of course calling correctly but am certainly looking forward to this.
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I would like to see us bat first.
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Brilliant. Half 10 start- watch until lunch then bed.
I'd go...
Cook
Compton
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Root
Prior
Woakes
Swann
Anderson
Finn
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Lost toss and will bat.Monty in for Swann.
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Bloody weather!
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Swann's injury is a worry, but Monty having his form back is good.
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Swann out of series and could be a doubt of Ashes. Bad news.
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Have they now said Swann out for series, new he was missing today!
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Yep.
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Don't really care about him missing this series... they'll win easily anyway. Want him fit for The Ashes though. Hoping for 5-0 and grind their noses into the dirt.
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I agree, but they are better for that reason.
A number of their top players in key positions are in the twilight of their career and like the Aussies have found out, you just cannot replace that calibre of player. We, however, have a fairly young side in comparison so although they are probably just ahead at the moment (I also think Steyn is a difference when on form) we will be better within a couple of years.
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Typical bloody Dunedin weather (it's been great down there right up until the Cricket). They're expecting patchy rain over the next three days as well, so NZ might even scrape a draw ;D
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I agree, but they are better for that reason.
A number of their top players in key positions are in the twilight of their career and like the Aussies have found out, you just cannot replace that calibre of player. We, however, have a fairly young side in comparison so although they are probably just ahead at the moment (I also think Steyn is a difference when on form) we will be better within a couple of years.
I disagree, I think an on form Jimmy is just as good as an on form Steyn (Steyn is on form more often though, but that's not what you said.. :P ), a lot of the argument against Jimmy is that his average isn't as good, but a lot of that is from 7-8 years ago when he first came in but he clearly wasn't ready for international cricket and his averages are badly skewed as a result. Year by Year Steyn and Jimmy have consistently been in the top 2-3 for the last 3-4 years now.
Kallis is the main difference. He's a world class batsman, with an average as good as any specialist batsman in the game currently but on top of that he's a fantastic bowler who gives them a full compliment of 4 very strong seamers and a spinner without giving them a long tail.
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Oh dear Compton.
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Oh dear Compton.
Under pressure!
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Cook put down, that was a chance.
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Cook gone, poor shot.
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Hmm looking a little worrying at the moment, that was really poor from Cook.
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KP out first ball, fucking hell this is bloody awful.
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Time to retire to bed with one ear piece that I will have on throughout the night.
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We look horribly undercooked.
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Thats what happens when you get bogged down.It's a length pitch.I hope the England bowlers are watching.
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For fucks sake KP a golden.
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Time to retire to bed with one ear piece that I will have on throughout the night.
This is a bit of a waking nightmare already
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We don't look prepared at all, all poor dismissals.
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The England batsmen have left their brains at the airport.Come on the Root.
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So we learnt how to play on the subcontinent and suddenly can't deal with a slightly swinging ball on almost perfect batting conditions
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We seem to have forgotten the golden rule when playing New Zealand, you have to battle hard at first then take advantage in the 2nd half of the test. Can't believe how bad we've batted in our owqn conditions.
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Heard it mentioned on the radio over the weekend that we haven't won the first test of an away series against one of the major test playing nations since 2004. Is that right?
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Yes, South Africa in 2004 I think. Amazing to think we've done as well as we have in that peroid when you consider that record of First Tests results, it's appalling.
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What a shocking performance.
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That was as bad a first day's performance as I can remember, absolutely disgusting on every level. The batsmen were complacent and the bowlers were hopeless. We looked horribly unprepared against a team we should be beating comfortably, utterly embarrassing. Our preparation and attitude needs to be looked at. They are probably going to be 1-0 down in a three match series now.
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Looks like the ECB still haven't learned how to balance the tough International schedule with giving players time off, we look horribly unprepared and have done now in the first Test in three overseas series in a row.
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Quite, not giving Anderson and Finn at least one 4 day game was madness as well. Really really poor, and we're now up against it in this series after one day of cricket.
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What the f**k do they do before test matches to prepare?
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I don't know, but whatever it is it doesn't work. Cook's shot was the worst of the lot for me, and set the tone for the rest.
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Looks like the ECB still haven't learned how to balance the tough International schedule with giving players time off, we look horribly unprepared and have done now in the first Test in three overseas series in a row.
There's just too much cricket. At one time they'd have a few weeks acclimatisation before an overseas series, now they're just on the go all the time and the first test acts as a warm up game.
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abysmal
i though supporting Villa was hard enough without Cricket joining in as well
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This is truly terrible, we don't look threatening here.
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This bowling is bloody horrible.
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Anderson is bowling dross at the moment.
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Looks like the ECB still haven't learned how to balance the tough International schedule with giving players time off, we look horribly unprepared and have done now in the first Test in three overseas series in a row.
There's just too much cricket. At one time they'd have a few weeks acclimatisation before an overseas series, now they're just on the go all the time and the first test acts as a warm up game.
You don't need to acclimatise for New Zealand Chris, pretty similar conditions to UK (especially in Dunners). The biggest problem I think is that England may have thought NZ would roll over, but unfortunately/fortunately (depends the side of the fence) NZ have picked a young and inexperienced team who are up for it as it may mean they can get an international professional contract out of it (most county cricketers over here earn less than $50K a season so it's not a full time job).
NZ have struggled for years but have some very decent young players. England just need to start to take them a bit more seriously.
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Whilst you have a point JD I think you can also hold the tour schedulers to task for arranging one warm up game ahead of the test series. I don't think this is because we're playing New Zealand as we've appeared to be undercooked for the first test of overseas games for a while now.
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it's as if the test match lurches up on them sooner than expected. If it was a once off it'd be ok but 3 in a row of looking really poor and it's something that needs to be addressed. We can still come away from this with a draw though, just need to be sensible.
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I think it's going to need more than being sensible. The deficit and time left in the game means they can just attack and we're going to have to bat incredibly well to save the game.
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Supposed to be quite cloudy so I doubt there's 2 full days to go. Will lose a bit of the morning tomorrow so you'd really be looking at being sensible and staying in, the aim has to be the draw now.
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Mccullum on the move, this could be brutal.
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McCullum gone - thank f--k!
447/8
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460/9 declared
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460/9 declared
Bugger! I had a bet on NZ getting over 475.5 with Paddypower. Not sure if they will refund my stake?
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Trent Boult looks like Stewart Downing, it's quite annoying. He's also bowling well.
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Drinks break - chance free so far - 29/0
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Boult looks a good bowler to me.
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Lunch 58/0 235 in arrears - satisfactory start
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Good so far, need a lot more of that.
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The pitch looks dead, should get a draw and move on
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Long way to go yet, but they've started well.
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101/0 Cook 50
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Heard Irani/gough/both twats on radio earlier in week before the start saying first test will be a draw and England will win the other two
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No time for Ronnie Irani but the way this pitch is playing they could be right about the first test....we should get the draw out of this and England tend to get better as series' progress'.
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118/0 Compton got his 50 now.
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After having to deal with all the smug Kiwi's over the past couple of days it would be good if we see this one out and then up the game for the other tests.
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Lambstewbert, got a load of kiwi cop mates who have come over on career breaks and have been getting loads of stick but bit quieter this evening
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139/0 Tea......i'm off to bed - night night!
Big day today
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Tons from Captain Cook & Compton. Good stuff. Wicket doing nothing, the draw looking the most likely result. Keep them out there as long as possible tomorrow, win the toss in the next match, and make them bowl again!
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it's as if the test match lurches up on them sooner than expected. If it was a once off it'd be ok but 3 in a row of looking really poor and it's something that needs to be addressed. We can still come away from this with a draw though, just need to be sensible.
how we played over night is what I meant by sensible. Nothing risky, played everything on merit and kept the scoreboard ticking over. We should try to bat the day out now, there's no chance we can get a big enough total to risk letting them have 15-20 overs at the end so kept the wickets and play sensibly and show them that we're capable of posting a huge total on this tour.
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That's very well played, just got to finish the job now.
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Has Finn's new run up had a bigger effect than we'd have expected or is it just a really flat pitch? Can't get it on TV here and finding a stream would be a bad idea for my chances of getting any sleep.
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This story seems to have passed me by. Allegations that Pakistan might have chucked the last World Cup Semi-Final, against India.
Apologies it's an old article but first I'd heard of it and not sure it was that widely publicised so I thought I'd share it.
Also, apologies that it's from the Heil.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2230682/Cricket-match-fixing-Was-World-Cup-semi-final-fixed.html
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Did well to draw there and Finn batted beautifully.
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No time for Ronnie Irani but the way this pitch is playing they could be right about the first test....we should get the draw out of this and England tend to get better as series' progress'.
If Irani is right it's the first time ever. I listen to Talksport when they have the Betfred guy on at about 10 to 8 in the morning. A good rule of thumb is have the opposite to Irani whether it's cricket, football, tennis or whatever. The bloke is a fucking idiot.
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The Kiwi supporters who were gloating on Friday were very quiet today. I didn't mention the cricket, but hopefully NZ have missed their opportunity and normal service can resume in Wellington later on this week.
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Four Aussies dropped for not getting their homework in on time. I'll be surprised if their coach survives till the Ashes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/21740045
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Just watched a great documentary on CNN called Branded a Rebel, the story of the West Indies tour of South Africa in 83.
Well worth a watch.
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Four Aussies dropped for not getting their homework in on time. I'll be surprised if their coach survives till the Ashes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/21740045
Can't quite decide what to think of this. On one hand the exercise seems a bit pointless, on the other you have to be a complete tit to not just get on and do it. Watson in particular comes out of it looking like a complete arse as the vice captain he should have been 1 of the first to offer his opinion, to do nothing is hugely disrespectful to both the coach and the rest of the team and he thoroughly deserves to be treated as he has been.
Pattinson and Khawaja I'd forgive a little more as they're both pretty inexperienced on an international stage and could be forgiven for thinking they can't offer much, as for Johnson I half expect him to have offered a picture of a train given how he comes across in interviews.
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He bowls to the left, he bowls to the riiiiiiight....
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Anyone down home, what's all this noise about Warwickshire's Limited Overs team being renamed The Birmingham Bears?!
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Anyone down home, what's all this noise about Warwickshire's Limited Overs team being renamed The Birmingham Bears?!
'Tis being discussed as part of a sponsorship deal with Visit Birmingham. Also talk of the ground being renamed the City of Birmingham Edgbaston Stadium and/or the City End being renamed the Birmingham End.
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Anyone down home, what's all this noise about Warwickshire's Limited Overs team being renamed The Birmingham Bears?!
'Tis being discussed as part of a sponsorship deal with Visit Birmingham. Also talk of the ground being renamed the City of Birmingham Edgbaston Stadium and/or the City End being renamed the Birmingham End.
Ah right, cheers. Not sure the rest of the county will take too kind to that! Ah well, deep down they all want to be Brummies anyway. *Dons tin hat, and takes cover*
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Anyone down home, what's all this noise about Warwickshire's Limited Overs team being renamed The Birmingham Bears?!
'Tis being discussed as part of a sponsorship deal with Visit Birmingham. Also talk of the ground being renamed the City of Birmingham Edgbaston Stadium and/or the City End being renamed the Birmingham End.
Not sure I'm in favour of that. It will alienate some of the county based members. For example, I know a bloke who lives in Earlsdon, and is a member at Edgbaston, who will not take kindly to it at all.
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The City End being called The Birmingham End has been mooted for a while.
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It's not happening, cos the council are skint.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-21755909
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The City End being called The Birmingham End has been mooted for a while.
Mooted and in place, it's been the Birmingham End since the 2011 season.
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The City End being called The Birmingham End has been mooted for a while.
Mooted and in place, it's been the Birmingham End since the 2011 season.
I thought I heard a commentator call it that but didn't know itwas its official name now. Well there you go.
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Four Aussies dropped for not getting their homework in on time. I'll be surprised if their coach survives till the Ashes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/21740045
Can't quite decide what to think of this. On one hand the exercise seems a bit pointless, on the other you have to be a complete tit to not just get on and do it. Watson in particular comes out of it looking like a complete arse as the vice captain he should have been 1 of the first to offer his opinion, to do nothing is hugely disrespectful to both the coach and the rest of the team and he thoroughly deserves to be treated as he has been.
Pattinson and Khawaja I'd forgive a little more as they're both pretty inexperienced on an international stage and could be forgiven for thinking they can't offer much, as for Johnson I half expect him to have offered a picture of a train given how he comes across in interviews.
I think it goes deeper than that, Clarke pretty much said so.
Atherton wrote a good piece in today's Times. He basically said that the Aussies have hidden behind "mateship" and team spirit for a number of years. Even during their glory years issues existed but were put to one side.
Fact is Clarke is their one world class player and in general they are struggling with a fall from cricket's pinnacle. They could take such criticism from from an Aussie coach but to hear it from a Saffer will be a bitter pill to swallow.
All this in a year with back to back Ashes series. Bring it on!
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The City End being called The Birmingham End has been mooted for a while.
Mooted and in place, it's been the Birmingham End since the 2011 season.
I thought I heard a commentator call it that but didn't know itwas its official name now. Well there you go.
I wouldn't mind ground sponsorship but the name "Edgbaston" doesn't lend itself to sponsorship in the same way that, for example, The Oval does. The Jaguar Edgbaston, for example doesn't work.
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2nd Test now underway New Zealand winning toss and inserting England.
Both teams unchanged from last test.
England 26 / 0
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Well well - Cook gone for 17 26/1
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Balls need to get a big score here.
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Sounds like a poor shot from Cook but there doesn't seem to be much in the pitch.
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A decent solid foundation to score a massive total. Going to be a warm day tomorrow at The Basin so it would be good to bat as long as possible and then try and snare a couple of wickets before close to put some pressure on NZ.
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Yep good day, need to up the run rate tomorrow and with the batsmen to come that'll happen.
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Seeing Compton interviewed, he seems like a nice bloke. Good luck to him.
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Trott gone first ball he's face, shame. Great innings, but we need to push on here.
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Some disappointing shots from first Bell and now Root spoiling the good work of yesterday. With approx 20 minutes till lunch England added only 59 runs but lost 3 wkts (326 / 5)
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Lunch 353 / 5
KP 68 NO
Prior 15 NO
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In first 20 mins after lunch KP gone for 73 now Broad 6, 374/7.
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A decent solid foundation to score a massive total. Going to be a warm day tomorrow at The Basin so it would be good to bat as long as possible and then try and snare a couple of wickets before close to put some pressure on NZ.
Got this spot on, a decent total (well done Matt Prior, great innings) and three wickets. Tomorrow will be the crucial day in this test and it's Saturday so a trip to the gym to watch the first two hours and then an afternoon at home.
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Good day overall. Poor from middle order, but KP, Prior and Finn did well. Need to knock them over now.
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The Aussies aren't happy with Phil Hughes! And a golden duck for Pup. I'm looking forward to the Ashes more and more.
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Why aren't they happy with Hughes?
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Some caught and bowled from Broad, Williamson gone.
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Broad is bowling beautifully.
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Jimmy big inswinger, Brownlie gone.
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need to get a few more before lunch.
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If we had a third slip Watling would be gone. Come on Cooky they're 99/5.
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Why aren't they happy with Hughes?
Apparently, he batted nervously and hence (in Ozzie eyes) should never wear the baggy green again. And this isn't the first time he's looked out of his depth.
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Watling should have been caught.
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Mccullum is a really good player and better than his stats suggest.
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I jinxed him.
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I'm going to bed Kiwi's now 197 / 7. Finn 2 quick wkts. I've got something a little more important happening tomorrow afternoon at 15;00. Got to be in Swan & Mitre for noonish at latest. Good night one and all!!!
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Ah the lady wife is working the night shift, so bed, laptop, a bottle of ESB and a late night, followed by a thrilling victory tomorrow...the perfect weekend...?
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Follow on enforced. Well bowled England, especially Broad who hasn't been at his best most recently.
A couple of wickets tonight (think there are 35 overs still to bowl), should set this up nicely for tomorrow.
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Need a couple of quick ones tomorrow, bit of bad weather coming up so we don't need NZ building any sort of lead.
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I see Australia got what they thought was a decent score 408 but the India have made a mockery of that today. 208-0 at the moment.
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Fair play to India, going at more than five an over. They must have been tempted to trudge along as they only need a draw to wrap up the series.
Dhawan, after scoring the fastest debut century in test history, moves on to 150 n.o.
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It's going to be tough to win the match, but we've done well.
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It's going to be tough to win the match, but we've done well.
The weather forecast is shit for Monday (our Sunday night) so I think it will prove difficult. Probably need nine wickets in a day. Might have to get them and leave us time to knock off a hundred or so runs too.
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That's why Broad is always worth a spot in the side, when he gets it right he's a great bowler, if he was a little more consistent he'd be one of the best around.
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One already gone this morning, only 8 to go (although the pitch isn't doing much). It's going to be a tough ask today.
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Rain.
Feck.
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Yeah game over and nothing we can do. Hopefully the pitch for the last test will be prepared for a contest but I doubt it.
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Yeah getting done by the pitches here as much as anything else - I might be putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 here but i think there is a fair amount of pressure on groundsmen, particularly in NZ, to make the game go into the 5th day.
England tours are a major money spinner the NZCB and they don't want the games over either way inside 3 days. Hence a procession of 'roads' to play on. Wellington is normally a more sporting wicket than this one.
Great to see Compton consistently in the runs though - great confidence builder moving forward.
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One thing about NZ that's impressive is they're getting the grounds in for Test cricket, I like that.
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The Aussies are preparing well for the Ashes with another humiliation in the 3rd test match. India heading for a 4-0 win in the series I reckon.
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Despite the wash out there were sell out crowds some days (Basin holds around 18,000) and you couldn't buy a ticket. Also heard that there was a pub in central Wellington that signed a contract to be the official Barmy Army pub for the duration of the test. The contract was 30 odd pages and included set pricing by the Barmy Army for drinks. By all accounts it was worth it as the pub was full every evening.
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The Aussies are preparing well for the Ashes with another humiliation in the 3rd test match. India heading for a 4-0 win in the series I reckon.
One of the problems they have is their complete and total fixation on the Ashes to the detriment of all other series. Whether it was the home series against Sri Lanka or the away one in India all they are talking about and have been for months. Mickey Arthur was talking about building towards the Ashes they day he did his first press conference FFS.
Unfortunatly, or fortunatly, this has meant that they've not appeared to have been properly focused on the Series at hand and they are looking very ordianry in India - some penciled in the the Ashes now either have confidence shot or may not even make the plane.
They are getting hammered in the media here with most reporters having already conceded that they have no chance in England. Kidology maybe but it's lovely to hear all the same.
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The Aussies are preparing well for the Ashes with another humiliation in the 3rd test match. India heading for a 4-0 win in the series I reckon.
One of the problems they have is their complete and total fixation on the Ashes to the detriment of all other series. Whether it was the home series against Sri Lanka or the away one in India all they are talking about and have been for months. Mickey Arthur was talking about building towards the Ashes they day he did his first press conference FFS.
Unfortunatly, or fortunatly, this has meant that they've not appeared to have been properly focused on the Series at hand and they are looking very ordianry in India - some penciled in the the Ashes now either have confidence shot or may not even make the plane.
They are getting hammered in the media here with most reporters having already conceded that they have no chance in England. Kidology maybe but it's lovely to hear all the same.
To be fair, I think we share the same Ashes preoccupation. As an England cricket fan, seeing us win back to back Ashes series in 2009 and then 2010/11 meant more than achieving number one test status in 2011. I think that the players feel the same way.
I recall reading an interview with Michael Vaughan after the 2005 Ashes win that basically said that since he succeeded Nasser Hussain as test captain everything that he and then-coach Duncan Fletcher did was geared around winning the Ashes in 2005.
Bring on Ashes 2013/2014 and two more series wins for England!
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KP's out of the last Test.
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And the IPL, which will really p**s him off!!
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what's the weather forecast in Auckland JD?
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So, who to replace KP tomorrow then?
Probably Bairstow if we are sticking to the tried and tested 6 batsmen 4 bowlers and Prior, but on a dodgy drop-in pitch I'd be tempted to give Woakes a go.
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So, who to replace KP tomorrow then?
Probably Bairstow if we are sticking to the tried and tested 6 batsmen 4 bowlers and Prior, but on a dodgy drop-in pitch I'd be tempted to give Woakes a go.
The loss of KP is a blow, but the experience of Cook, Bell & Trott should be enough to cope against this NZ attack.
Is Root still with the test squad? If he is I'd go for him, if not it's Bairstow for me too.
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Well Root's played the last two games so I assume he is. It'll be Bairstow to replace KP.
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Well Root's played the last two games so I assume he is. It'll be Bairstow to replace KP.
Bairstow hasn't had a bat since November,I hope he has been doing some quality nets.
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Root up the order to 4 and bairstow in at 6 for me.
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Yep, that will almost certainly be it.
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After making such a twat of himself with his sulk over too much cricket I can't help but smirk at KP's injury forcing him out of the IPA.
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After making such a twat of himself with his sulk over too much cricket I can't help but smirk at KP's injury forcing him out of the IPA.
He does drink too much.
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Root up the order to 4 and bairstow in at 6 for me.
It says on the BBC they may play Woaksie
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After making such a twat of himself with his sulk over too much cricket I can't help but smirk at KP's injury forcing him out of the IPA.
He does drink too much.
Oops!
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After making such a twat of himself with his sulk over too much cricket I can't help but smirk at KP's injury forcing him out of the IPA.
That's very harsh for me, I still think England's attitude towards the IPL is wrong and has been wrong ever since the competition became approved (it's 2nd year). forget the money for a second, who wouldn't want to play in a tournament which is attracting the best players from every other country whilst you are told that you can't play because the we need a full strength side to play against a team who are missing 5-6 of their best players.
I've always been on KPs side over this and I think it would do us some good to enocurage a few of our T20 and 1day players to try to get contracts.
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what's the weather forecast in Auckland JD?
Friday - Monday sunny and about 23c. Supposed to be a few showers on Tuesday.
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It's Bairstow by the way. Bit of a safe choice but we do seem to like the same batsman / bowler balance wherever possible.
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England will have a bowl on a green zipper of a pitch.
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Pitch looks pretty flat from initial impressions.
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Pitch looks pretty flat from initial impressions.
Not a big suprise............we need a big game from the bowlers here
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Not looking promising here.
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Wasn't sure Monty was the wisest choice on this deck. Even less sure after an hour, 4 seamers needed I think....would have liked to see Woakes.
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At least managed to get 1 wkt just before lunch......79/1 at lunch.
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This is fucking pish.
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We're buried in this match, really poor.
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did I dream that NZ scored just 20 runs in the first hour ? flat pitch so the Kiwi's dont get a drubbing...
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It's a flat pitch, but we bowled badly as well. We were far too wide when we were bowling and the body language was really poor.
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Seems like an insane decision to put them in. Maybe there was something about the conditions at the toss which made him think it would turn out differently but it looks flat and fairly slow, added to very little swing I actually think NZ will be upset they only got 250, looked like a 300+ day from the highlights.
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Seems like an insane decision to put them in. Maybe there was something about the conditions at the toss which made him think it would turn out differently but it looks flat and fairly slow, added to very little swing I actually think NZ will be upset they only got 250, looked like a 300+ day from the highlights.
Their thinking was that the drop-in pitches only get better and that there was a green tinge to it, so a break-through on day one looked the best bet. Easy afterwards, eh?
Having said that we bowled in a very ordinary way.
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Finn did well but we're up against this not to lose now after our start.
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Has all the makings of an upset.
Losing a key player on the eve of the match, bowlers going through the motions and now two key wickets for NZ. Will do well to save this test and scramble a draw.
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Has all the makings of an upset.
There is no such thing as an upset in a test match. Over five days and two innings each the best team always wins.
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thats not true. Weather especially overcast conditions, can make all the difference. Few teams do well in England, but England rarely do well in India
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Has all the makings of an upset.
There is no such thing as an upset in a test match. Over five days and two innings each the best team always wins.
I'd say a team ranked just above Bangladesh beating the 2nd best team in the world might -just about- qualify as an upset.
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However in a stand alone test match ,and that's how every test match is at the start, the best team over 5 days always wins.
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Have to say it would be an upset if the Kiwis win, but still think a draw most likely
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Crazy decision by NZ not making England follow on. This will be a draw now, especially as NZ have lost 3 wickets this evening.
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Once again Prior pretty much stand's alone in a feeble batting effort, really poor. Root did ok but other than that woeful. We've been laughing at Australia but we're on the verge of losing a series to a very low ranked side.
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This series really smacks of complacency from England. We now have Bairstow in with no match practice and he gets knocked over. We've had too many really poor days in this series. The first day of this Test we bowled badly and the body language was shocking and the batting in today's play was awful.
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got on my nerves a bit listning to the comentators talking about what England would have to do to win the test, even after the second day they were still banging on,
we were in deep shit and saving the test should have been the priority never mind winning it
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NZ are a better side than the rankings suggest and have some good players. We've gone over there thinking we'll cruise it and we'll probably lose the series now. Bowling, batting and general intensity have not been good enough on any level.
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Crazy decision by NZ not making England follow on. This will be a draw now, especially as NZ have lost 3 wickets this evening.
I think correct decision. Leads needs to be well over 300 to enforce follow on otherwise you hand the initiative to the opposition by giving them an only opportunity to do something about the situation. By batting again you bat them out of the game and demoralise them. Despite losing 3 NZ are in charge now and England can only await their fate!
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Crazy decision by NZ not making England follow on. This will be a draw now, especially as NZ have lost 3 wickets this evening.
I think correct decision. Leads needs to be well over 300 to enforce follow on otherwise you hand the initiative to the opposition by giving them an only opportunity to do something about the situation. By batting again you bat them out of the game and demoralise them. Despite losing 3 NZ are in charge now and England can only await their fate!
That's massively over-simplifying it. Another important part of the decision is the pitch, if the pitch is deteriorating you don't enforce the follow-on because you want to give yourself the better conditions, weather plays a part as well, as do the feelings of the bowlers (Will they be able to deliver another 100 overs of the standard that got you to the position to make the choice?). I think commentators are often guilty of berating these decisions without really thinking about the full reasoning behind it.
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NZ are a better side than the rankings suggest and have some good players. We've gone over there thinking we'll cruise it and we'll probably lose the series now. Bowling, batting and general intensity have not been good enough on any level.
That is clearly the case. Even if England save this match having to fight to save 2 matches out of 3 is not the way a number 1/2 test team should be performing.
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There is always something delightful to find in the world of cricket if you look! Indians completing a 4-0 whitewash against you know who is immensely satisfying.
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Well barring a superb reargauard that'll be us done and dusted in this series.
We've been largely outplayed in this series - not by much but when you consider the team that has outplayed us is New Zealand there should be some serious alarm bells ringing.
The bottom line is that we havn't batted well enough in the 1st innings in 2 out of the 3 tests. And now we muct take our medicine for it.
After a superb performance in India this really is a massive crash back to reality.
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NZ have been the better side this series and we've been desperately poor in all areas other than the odd stand out performance individually. Terrible as a batting unit and terrible as a bowling unit.
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Also the way we've played and the lack of harmony in the team places some question marks over Cook's captaincy even this early. This is very worring. We've bowled awful lines, the field placings were horribly negative.
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"I think it's a great reality check that you can't take any team lightly, and you can't play people on what it says in the rankings or what it says on a piece of paper,"
That's what Gooch has said, so essentially admitting the team have been complacent. That is utterly criminal and can never happen again.
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I think that's about game over 164 / 6 now Bell defending admirably 45 off 194 balls but even he was dropped just before lunch.
Could be a little entertaining now though Prior 10 off 4 balls.
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This is fucking brilliant Test Cricket.
Six balls, one wicket, Monty on strike!
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Play and a miss - five to go.
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Played and missed again! - Four to go.
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A single!!!!!
Prior on strike - Three to go. This is fantastic.
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Should have been runs but Prior ain't moving! - Two to go.
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Defended resolutely - last ball.........
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yeeeesssssssssssssss
WHAT. A. GAME!!
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Good stuff by Prior and co. God knows what the fuck the top order were playing at yesterday though.
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Unbelievable from Prior, Broad and Bell (3+hours at the crease, when most needed).
Will be quite happy if I don't see Compton and Bairstow near a test side anytime soon. Lessons need to be learned, but that can be saved for another time. Going into an Ashes summer off the back of a series defeat to NZ (NZ, FFS) would have been horrific.
That last session is why we love the game. And some say test cricket is dead!
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Bit hard on Compton, he got two hundreds in this series don't forget.
NZ have performed much better than anyone, even them I suspect, expected. But this is what makes a good side - not playing well and avoiding defeat with a gutsy rearguard and credit to them for that, a lesser side would have lost that.
Still some questions need to be asked about preparation and overall mindset. You can't bat like we did in the 1st innings in the 1st and 3rd Test Matches and keep getting away with it.
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Pieterson takes pelters, but you can see how fragile that top order looks without him.
Advantage England ahead of the summer. Australia getting rolled in India isn't a huge shock, but the nature of that defeat is encouraging. They look like a divided rabble. That would have meant little had England suffered a series defeat to NZ though.
As for NZ, they have looked good over the 5 days -almost like a decent test playing side. What they do from here on in dictates whether this was the start of something, or merely a brief interlude between regular test maulings.
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What a great last day. Been keeping up to date/watching it all day. It's been great, but scary (like watching Villa play).
Well done Matt Prior, England's saviour.
I think New Zealand are trying to rebuild and their young players, Williamson, Boult, Rutherford etc look good players. Problem with New Zealand over the past few years has been that they haven't had a settled team and are too quick to drop players who don't perform in one series. Hopefully they will keep faith with players, like they've done with Southee for instance.
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Unbelievable from Prior, Broad and Bell (3+hours at the crease, when most needed).
Will be quite happy if I don't see Compton and Bairstow near a test side anytime soon. Lessons need to be learned, but that can be saved for another time. Going into an Ashes summer off the back of a series defeat to NZ (NZ, FFS) would have been horrific.
That last session is why we love the game. And some say test cricket is dead!
Very harsh on Compton who has a perfectly respectable test average for a young guy new to the team.
Bairstow there are question marks over I agree.
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Crikey what a test. It started badly with Cook putting them in, got worse and worse and worse!
People say we underestimated them, but they're a village side. It’s a lack of application and preparation that has put us down in two out of three tests. The lifeless flat pitches haven’t helped either, but you they’ve been ideal for batting and we have largely failed to apply ourselves and take charge of the game.
It’s been a dog of a series, but then at least we have escaped with a draw. The Aussies took a right mauling from a mediocre India.
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Matt Prior take a bow, brilliant again and credit to all those who contributed to the survival on the final day. However we've been desperately poor in this series with bat and ball other than some isolated good individual performances. We need to have a very hard look at our intensity and performance.
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Crikey what a test. It started badly with Cook putting them in, got worse and worse and worse!
People say we underestimated them, but they're a village side. It’s a lack of application and preparation that has put us down in two out of three tests. The lifeless flat pitches haven’t helped either, but you they’ve been ideal for batting and we have largely failed to apply ourselves and take charge of the game.
It’s been a dog of a series, but then at least we have escaped with a draw. The Aussies took a right mauling from a mediocre India.
From this test their were 3 major problems:
The pitch on the first day was as lifeless a wicket as I've ever seen, I actually think we did ok to restrict how many they scored, 350+ wouldn't have been beyond a better side on day 1, not scoring bigger when the going was good cost NZ the test in my opinion. - I'm not overly worried about this, I doubt we'll have a pitch like that for the ashes, other than maybe at Lords.
Monty got absolutely nothing out of the pitch in the first 2 days meaning we had effectively a 3 man attack. - This is only an issue if Swann isn't fit for the summer, if he isn't I'd be tempted to give Tredwell a chance, Monty is great in sub-continent conditions but we can't pick a 7/4 side if 1 of the bowlers is struggling to contribute.
3 of our top 6 were very inexperienced and that showed when we needed a bit of maturity with the bat. - Not a lot we can do to help with this, 6 has been a problem for a while and Strauss was always going to be missed but of the 3 only Bairstow has looked out of his depth, Root and Compton have both shown enough to be worth persevering with. If we do need another option I'd like to see Woakes have a go at 6 as is gives us an extra bowler to address the previous point and he is more than handy with the bat. I think putting him in for an ashes tour with no previous experience would be very brave though.
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In Bairstow's defence he had no match preparation at all. I'd rather have had Morgan on the tour to be honest.
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Finn's pace was also down this series that needs to get up again. Also we didn't bat with enough tempo, I have real concerns with Cook, Compton and Trott as the top three. One of those has to take the initiative and drive our run rate up to put pressure on the opposition.
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Excellent points paul_e. I too believe that NZ not scoring more runs on the first day helped us out. The pitch was a road, the straight boundaries were short and our bowling attack was poor. They missed a trick there.
I also have my doubts about Compton as well if I am honest. Not to deride his two hundreds here, as you can never under-estimate them. However England, as David Lloyd said, have got to number one in the world by playing aggressive cricket and taking the game to the opposition.
Compton will never be a box office player, but I do feel he can rotate the strike a little more and keep the board ticking over. At the moment he is putting tremendous pressure on Cook and Trott at the top of the order to keep the runs going and with both of them, it's not their natural game.
This in turn manifestes itself lower down the order where KP, Bell and Prior then need to get the run rate up as well. I can't recall the last time England scored as few a runs in a days play as they have over in NZ. It maybe something to do with the pitches, we will see when it comes back to England.
In terms of our bowling it will be good to get some competition back when they get back to England. Tremlett, Onions, Meaker, Bresnan, Woakes possibly Chris Wright too, can all push for places and will also allow us to rest Jimmy as and when necessary.
I do worry, if Swann isn't there, what is in the spin cupboard as it looks a little bare to me. As lovable as Monty is, and I can't see why to be honest, he is hopeless outside of the sub continent. The "run out" this morning was apparently funny?. I don't see it, he is a professional cricketer and he should be able to dive in at the correct time. If he had been run out, it would have been ridiculous. He just hasn't really improved his batting or fielding in the 7 years or so he has been playing test cricket. Compare and contrast to someone like Giles who got every ounce out of his limited amount of natural talent?
So we have had a wake up call and we need to make sure we are prepared properly for the Aussies. Despite India they will still be tough to beat and we need to be on our game from the get go
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Finn's pace was also down this series that needs to get up again. Also we didn't bat with enough tempo, I have real concerns with Cook, Compton and Trott as the top three. One of those has to take the initiative and drive our run rate up to put pressure on the opposition.
Ha ha, just written exactly the same Paul :-)
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Yes agreed Dave. Our top 3 is very slow paced and it needs to be addressed because we should be dominating NZ and we didn't. Our slow run rate has a knock on effect on all areas of the team.
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I think Cook and Trott are both comfy with a 60-70% strike rate when they're playing their natural game, if Compton can get to the same then we're fine as that is what Strauss gave as well.
If he stays around 50% then maybe we'll have to give Root a go up there.
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The top three are maybe more crabbish than we've had for a while but, none of them hold a candle to Chris Tavare that is for sure. There have been times when we have collasped with attacking players not hanging around so, Compton is an asset in my eyes and deserves his chance. I think we need a balance in our top six. Prior is ideal at number 7 but our tail basically starts at 8 because Broad is normally a walking wicket with Finn, Anderson and Monty being the modern version of Caddick, Tuffers and Devon Malcolm.
Work needs to be done.
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The top three are maybe more crabbish than we've had for a while but, none of them hold a candle to Chris Tavare that is for sure. There have been times when we have collasped with attacking players not hanging around so, Compton is an asset in my eyes and deserves his chance. I think we need a balance in our top six. Prior is ideal at number 7 but our tail basically starts at 8 because Broad is normally a walking wicket with Finn, Anderson and Monty being the modern version of Caddick, Tuffers and Devon Malcolm.
Work needs to be done.
Bit Harsh on Broad, he has a perfectly acceptable average for a batsman who comes in at 9 (25 in test matches). 8 is normally Swann who is fine (average of 23.5) and even Finn and Jimmy are acceptable tailenders. This is another issue with Monty coming in, he's awful with the bat and really throws our batting order out.
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The top three are maybe more crabbish than we've had for a while but, none of them hold a candle to Chris Tavare that is for sure. There have been times when we have collasped with attacking players not hanging around so, Compton is an asset in my eyes and deserves his chance. I think we need a balance in our top six. Prior is ideal at number 7 but our tail basically starts at 8 because Broad is normally a walking wicket with Finn, Anderson and Monty being the modern version of Caddick, Tuffers and Devon Malcolm.
Work needs to be done.
Bit Harsh on Broad, he has a perfectly acceptable average for a batsman who comes in at 9 (25 in test matches). 8 is normally Swann who is fine (average of 23.5) and even Finn and Jimmy are acceptable tailenders. This is another issue with Monty coming in, he's awful with the bat and really throws our batting order out.
Plus as a bowler he's pretty ineffective outside of the sub-continent.
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That's not true his record in England is pretty decent.
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That's not true his record in England is pretty decent.
He's not played a home test since the Ashes opener at Cardiff in 2009. His selection weakens the side as a whole.
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Maybe so, but his record in England in matches he's played is still good.
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Maybe so, but his record in England in matches he's played is still good.
If you talking about Monty - when things are working for him he's fantastic, when they aren't he offers very little else to justify his selection. He has too many innings where to bowls 40-50 overs for 0-1 wickets. Yes he's only going for 3 an over but it's difficult to build any pressure when there's no threat at one end. Swann is much more willing to mix things up to try to get in the batsman's head, he can be expensive because of it but he also makes things happen without the conditions to help. Then on top of that he's an excellent fielder and handy with the bat.
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Great achievement from Prior to get into the top 10 batsmen in the world.
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http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/27/jesse-ryder-critical-condition
Doesn't sound good.
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http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/27/jesse-ryder-critical-condition
Doesn't sound good.
Absolutely disgusting. Guy attacked by four thugs in an upmarket bar in an upmarket area. Problem with Christchurch ay the moment is that due to the rebuild there are a lot of builders etc that have come here to earn a living, but they get bored and pissed up (due to a lot of them being away from families). If this turns out to be locals it will be even worse, but there's a nasty undercurrent here at the moment at times.
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http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/27/jesse-ryder-critical-condition
Doesn't sound good.
Absolutely disgusting. Guy attacked by four thugs in an upmarket bar in an upmarket area. Problem with Christchurch ay the moment is that due to the rebuild there are a lot of builders etc that have come here to earn a living, but they get bored and pissed up (due to a lot of them being away from families). If this turns out to be locals it will be even worse, but there's a nasty undercurrent here at the moment at times.
Get well soon Jesse
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It does sound horrible, hope he recovers.
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Maybe so, but his record in England in matches he's played is still good.
If you talking about Monty - when things are working for him he's fantastic, when they aren't he offers very little else to justify his selection. He has too many innings where to bowls 40-50 overs for 0-1 wickets. Yes he's only going for 3 an over but it's difficult to build any pressure when there's no threat at one end. Swann is much more willing to mix things up to try to get in the batsman's head, he can be expensive because of it but he also makes things happen without the conditions to help. Then on top of that he's an excellent fielder and handy with the bat.
So are you saying Monty cannot bat or field... just to clarify
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Maybe so, but his record in England in matches he's played is still good.
If you talking about Monty - when things are working for him he's fantastic, when they aren't he offers very little else to justify his selection. He has too many innings where to bowls 40-50 overs for 0-1 wickets. Yes he's only going for 3 an over but it's difficult to build any pressure when there's no threat at one end. Swann is much more willing to mix things up to try to get in the batsman's head, he can be expensive because of it but he also makes things happen without the conditions to help. Then on top of that he's an excellent fielder and handy with the bat.
So are you saying Monty cannot bat or field... just to clarify
Surely anyone who's ever watched Monty with a bat in his hand can see he's lost and the sight of monty under a high catch in the outfield has got to be one of the scariest in sport.
To clarify, he's one of the worst batsmen i've ever seen at international level and his fielding is worse.
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Maybe so, but his record in England in matches he's played is still good.
If you talking about Monty - when things are working for him he's fantastic, when they aren't he offers very little else to justify his selection. He has too many innings where to bowls 40-50 overs for 0-1 wickets. Yes he's only going for 3 an over but it's difficult to build any pressure when there's no threat at one end. Swann is much more willing to mix things up to try to get in the batsman's head, he can be expensive because of it but he also makes things happen without the conditions to help. Then on top of that he's an excellent fielder and handy with the bat.
So are you saying Monty cannot bat or field... just to clarify
Surely anyone who's ever watched Monty with a bat in his hand can see he's lost and the sight of monty under a high catch in the outfield has got to be one of the scariest in sport.
To clarify, he's one of the worst batsmen i've ever seen at international level and his fielding is worse.
Clearly he's worked at his game and his batting/fielding has improved but he can be a liability.
Duncan Flethcher introduced an ethic whereby test players were adept in two disciplines and most of the current squad are an example of this. Monty struggles with the bat and can be a messy fielder.
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Maybe so, but his record in England in matches he's played is still good.
If you talking about Monty - when things are working for him he's fantastic, when they aren't he offers very little else to justify his selection. He has too many innings where to bowls 40-50 overs for 0-1 wickets. Yes he's only going for 3 an over but it's difficult to build any pressure when there's no threat at one end. Swann is much more willing to mix things up to try to get in the batsman's head, he can be expensive because of it but he also makes things happen without the conditions to help. Then on top of that he's an excellent fielder and handy with the bat.
So are you saying Monty cannot bat or field... just to clarify
Surely anyone who's ever watched Monty with a bat in his hand can see he's lost and the sight of monty under a high catch in the outfield has got to be one of the scariest in sport.
To clarify, he's one of the worst batsmen i've ever seen at international level and his fielding is worse.
Sorry, I think my sarcasm has missed the spot there. Even as a lowly level 2 coach I can see that Monty is dreadful in the field and makes Tuffnell look like an opener.
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Maybe so, but his record in England in matches he's played is still good.
If you talking about Monty - when things are working for him he's fantastic, when they aren't he offers very little else to justify his selection. He has too many innings where to bowls 40-50 overs for 0-1 wickets. Yes he's only going for 3 an over but it's difficult to build any pressure when there's no threat at one end. Swann is much more willing to mix things up to try to get in the batsman's head, he can be expensive because of it but he also makes things happen without the conditions to help. Then on top of that he's an excellent fielder and handy with the bat.
So are you saying Monty cannot bat or field... just to clarify
Surely anyone who's ever watched Monty with a bat in his hand can see he's lost and the sight of monty under a high catch in the outfield has got to be one of the scariest in sport.
To clarify, he's one of the worst batsmen i've ever seen at international level and his fielding is worse.
Clearly he's worked at his game and his batting/fielding has improved but he can be a liability.
Duncan Flethcher introduced an ethic whereby test players were adept in two disciplines and most of the current squad are an example of this. Monty struggles with the bat and can be a messy fielder.
I hate this theory that's player has to be adept in two disciplines. Courtney Walsh, Curtley Ambrose, Gladstone Small, Tim Munton, Bob Willis, Muttiah Muralitharan, Glen McGrath, Allan Donald, Harbhajan Singh, Michael Holding et al. These are people of the top of my head. I'm all for improving a performers all round game but I certainly don't see it as a prerequisite.
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Monty can bowl but doesn't know his best length or pace,he bloody well should by now.
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If you talking about Monty - when things are working for him he's fantastic, when they aren't he offers very little else to justify his selection. He has too many innings where to bowls 40-50 overs for 0-1 wickets. Yes he's only going for 3 an over but it's difficult to build
To clarify, he's one of the worst batsmen i've ever seen at international level and his fielding is worse.
He is not an international class spinner either.
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If you talking about Monty - when things are working for him he's fantastic, when they aren't he offers very little else to justify his selection. He has too many innings where to bowls 40-50 overs for 0-1 wickets. Yes he's only going for 3 an over but it's difficult to build
To clarify, he's one of the worst batsmen i've ever seen at international level and his fielding is worse.
He is not an international class spinner either.
Yet hugely entertaining to watch when he partakes in all three disciplines :)
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If you talking about Monty - when things are working for him he's fantastic, when they aren't he offers very little else to justify his selection. He has too many innings where to bowls 40-50 overs for 0-1 wickets. Yes he's only going for 3 an over but it's difficult to build
To clarify, he's one of the worst batsmen i've ever seen at international level and his fielding is worse.
He is not an international class spinner either.
Nonsense. He'd still walk into most of the ten test teams and is better than any spinner England had throughout the 1990s and for most of the 2000s, off the top of my head.
We're lucky to have him as more than able cover for Swann.
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If you talking about Monty - when things are working for him he's fantastic, when they aren't he offers very little else to justify his selection. He has too many innings where to bowls 40-50 overs for 0-1 wickets. Yes he's only going for 3 an over but it's difficult to build
To clarify, he's one of the worst batsmen i've ever seen at international level and his fielding is worse.
He is not an international class spinner either.
Nonsense. He'd still walk into most of the ten test teams and is better than any spinner England had throughout the 1990s and for most of the 2000s, off the top of my head.
We're lucky to have him as more than able cover for Swann.
He doesn't spin it enough.Yet again a part time spin bowler was getting it to turn more than him.
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Sorry that's just not true, yeah he didn't spin it much on flat decks. But Panesar is comfortably international class.
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Monty Panesar:
47 test matches played with 161 wickets at a very respectable average of 33.31
12 five wicket hauls and 2 ten wicket matches. Of the 12 5-fers, 8 have been taken outside of the subcontinent.
For anyone to say he isn't an international class spinner is quite clearly absurd.
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He has roughly the same bowling average as Harbajhan, but will have played far fewer games on a spin-friendly surface.
He's definitely international class. He's unlucky to be playing at the same time as Swann who is the best spinner we've had during my lifetime. He still has plenty to offer England when Swann is out or when conditions suit a two-spinner approach.
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Yeah as others have said, his bowling is fine (I still think the stats cover up for a lot of innings where he is largely ineffective though) like all of our bowlers but the others get away with it by offering decent lower order runs and/or excellence in the field (swann for example averages 23.5 with the bat and is an international class slip fielder).
Finn is another who has failed to nail down a place because of his problems when he's not bowling. The difference is Finn has worked really hard on his batting and it's starting to show.
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Every bowler, even the likes of Warne, has innings where they are ineffective.
He has worked on his batting, we would probably not have won the Ashes in 2009 but for his tenacity with the bat in Cardiff.
Did you not rate Murali either? His batting was pretty shit.
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Sorry that's just not true, yeah he didn't spin it much on flat decks. But Panesar is comfortably international class.
Only when 2 spinners are playing.
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So if Swann was unavailable, who would you pick ahead of Panesar? Or would you go with no spinners?
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So if Swann was unavailable, who would you pick ahead of Panesar? Or would you go with no spinners?
Treadwell.............
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So if Swann was unavailable, who would you pick ahead of Panesar? Or would you go with no spinners?
Treadwell,but picking Bairstow was a big mistake.At least Woakes had swung a bat in anger this calender year.And they knew Anderson was struggling.
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Every bowler, even the likes of Warne, has innings where they are ineffective.
He has worked on his batting, we would probably not have won the Ashes in 2009 but for his tenacity with the bat in Cardiff.
Did you not rate Murali either? His batting was pretty shit.
There's little point discussing cricket with you if you don't see there's a difference between the 2 most effective spinners of all time and a guy who can't hold on to a central contract.
Monty isn't special enough to build a team around, Murali was.
I don't dispute that every bowler has bad sessions/innings/matches, my point is to get away with those you need to be 1 of 2 things:
A good all round cricketer (lets use Stuart Broad and Graham Swann as examples)
An absolute machine when things are going your way (lets go with Jimmy Anderson here)
The 3 people I've named there are the core of the england attack that has seen us at the top of the rankings recently, Monty isn't in the same class as them unfortunately, but is a very useful option if Swann is out or we need an alternative spinner.
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Murali was a cheat.
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Monty Panesar:
47 test matches played with 161 wickets at a very respectable average of 33.31
12 five wicket hauls and 2 ten wicket matches. Of the 12 5-fers, 8 have been taken outside of the subcontinent.
For anyone to say he isn't an international class spinner is quite clearly absurd.
Completely agree, you can debate his other attributes all you want but his bowling is good enough. I rate Swann very highly but he has been through some pretty ineffective times as well.
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I also do not rate Panesar. When he bowls well he looks great. But when things aren't working for him he doesn't try to mix things up to change it. No change in pace, no flatter delivery, no change in angle, rarely over the wicket etc etc it becomes processional and international teams know that. One end isn't tied up and pressure cannot be properly applied. That, more than attacking batting got us to number one. Our batting has had many failure over the years but our attack usually win us games. That attack is not usually with Panesar in the team.
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Monty Panesar:
47 test matches played with 161 wickets at a very respectable average of 33.31
12 five wicket hauls and 2 ten wicket matches. Of the 12 5-fers, 8 have been taken outside of the subcontinent.
For anyone to say he isn't an international class spinner is quite clearly absurd.
Completely agree, you can debate his other attributes all you want but his bowling is good enough. I rate Swann very highly but he has been through some pretty ineffective times as well.
I would like to his figures when he is the only spinner in the side,I bet his average rocket's up.
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I also do not rate Panesar. When he bowls well he looks great. But when things aren't working for him he doesn't try to mix things up to change it. No change in pace, no flatter delivery, no change in angle, rarely over the wicket etc etc it becomes processional and international teams know that. One end isn't tied up and pressure cannot be properly applied. That, more than attacking batting got us to number one. Our batting has had many failure over the years but our attack usually win us games. That attack is not usually with Panesar in the team.
Perfectly explains my point from a page or 2 back and is exactly right. I like Monty on form, but if it'snot going for him he offers so little. All the top bowlers have the ability to backup the guy at the other end if it's not working for them, Monty doesn't do that at all. If there's pressure at the other end and Monty is in a bad spell you can almost guarantee a boundary. He gets a lot of maidens but there are always runs there if the opposition need to get at him.
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http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/27/jesse-ryder-critical-condition
Doesn't sound good.
Absolutely disgusting. Guy attacked by four thugs in an upmarket bar in an upmarket area. Problem with Christchurch ay the moment is that due to the rebuild there are a lot of builders etc that have come here to earn a living, but they get bored and pissed up (due to a lot of them being away from families). If this turns out to be locals it will be even worse, but there's a nasty undercurrent here at the moment at times.
Out of a coma, off a ventilator, talking. Fingers crossed.
And two blokes arrested.
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http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/27/jesse-ryder-critical-condition
Doesn't sound good.
Absolutely disgusting. Guy attacked by four thugs in an upmarket bar in an upmarket area. Problem with Christchurch ay the moment is that due to the rebuild there are a lot of builders etc that have come here to earn a living, but they get bored and pissed up (due to a lot of them being away from families). If this turns out to be locals it will be even worse, but there's a nasty undercurrent here at the moment at times.
Out of a coma, off a ventilator, talking. Fingers crossed.
And two blokes arrested.
He's lost his $300,000 a year contract for the IPL because of this. I reckon the thugs who attacked him should be made to pay him compensation for loss of earnings.
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http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/27/jesse-ryder-critical-condition
Doesn't sound good.
Absolutely disgusting. Guy attacked by four thugs in an upmarket bar in an upmarket area. Problem with Christchurch ay the moment is that due to the rebuild there are a lot of builders etc that have come here to earn a living, but they get bored and pissed up (due to a lot of them being away from families). If this turns out to be locals it will be even worse, but there's a nasty undercurrent here at the moment at times.
Out of a coma, off a ventilator, talking. Fingers crossed.
And two blokes arrested.
He's lost his $300,000 a year contract for the IPL because of this. I reckon the thugs who attacked him should be made to pay him compensation for loss of earnings.
Reading into Ryder's history I really would be surprised if he was completely blameless.
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Wasnt one of those arrested a relative of his....cousin or something!!!
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I wonder what James Taylor has done to offend the England cricket set up, he's not even included in the 30 man international squad for 2013. He looked good in the Test arena last summer.
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I wonder what James Taylor has done to offend the England cricket set up, he's not even included in the 30 man international squad for 2013. He looked good in the Test arena last summer.
Agree it does seem odd, he's never going to get in ahead of Prior who is probably our most consistent performer at the minute but he seems a more likely backup than the other options around at the minute.
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I wonder what James Taylor has done to offend the England cricket set up, he's not even included in the 30 man international squad for 2013. He looked good in the Test arena last summer.
Agree it does seem odd, he's never going to get in ahead of Prior who is probably our most consistent performer at the minute but he seems a more likely backup than the other options around at the minute.
I'm thinking more as a specialist batsmen than wicketkeeper, but it does seem very odd. Bopara was dropped for him and now he's back in front of him.
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Pietersen is out of the New Zealand test series which starts next month
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-new-zealand-2013/content/current/story/630259.html
Hope he's fit for the Ashes.
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Tickets to the opening day of the first Ashes test, don't mind if I do.
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We've got tickets for the last day of the Ashes series at the Oval on the Sunday.
Either be a dead rubber or a classic
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Mike Denness the ex-England skipper has died.
Can't say I remember much about his time as England captain but I do remember that he led a very talented Kent team in the 1970's.
Sad news indeed, RIP Mike.
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Wrong Fred.
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Just saw that Chris Gayle was trending on twitter, then just turned on the IPL on ITV4.
Wow, just wow.
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Gayle Force just hit city of Bengalaru....what a knock....highest ever individual T20 score 175 no off 66 balls , 17 x 6's, 13 x 4's ensuring RCB achieve 263/5.
For me T20 is Mickey Mouse cricket there to be enjoyed and boy was that enjoyable!!!
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Just saw that Chris Gayle was trending on twitter, then just turned on the IPL on ITV4.
Wow, just wow.
Jaysus! That is a remarkable score. 102 scored in 6's alone. What is even more remarkable is that Luke Wright and Bhuvneshwhar Kumar both went for less than 6 an over which means the rest of them went on average for nearly 3 a ball!
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Just saw that Chris Gayle was trending on twitter, then just turned on the IPL on ITV4.
Wow, just wow.
Jaysus! That is a remarkable score. 102 scored in 6's alone. What is even more remarkable is that Luke Wright and Bhuvneshwhar Kumar both went for less than 6 an over which means the rest of them went on average for nearly 3 a ball!
I don't think that score will ever be beaten.
Whenever I see Chris Gayle he looks bigger and bigger. The man is an absolute unit.
I wonder if he is a Warwickshire fan.
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Gotta love Chris Gayle, when he gets it right he's truly awesome, deserves to get himself a spot in history for today.
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An insane innings.
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For anyone who hasn't seen it -
Some of those 6s are huge, no one else in the game could come close to that.
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http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/cricket/england-will-be-delighted-with-strength-of-australias-ashes-squad-writes-ben-dorries/story-e6frepmo-1226628583530
Defeatist attitude? Getting excuses in early? or lulling us into a false sense of security?
You decide.......
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Well bringing Hadden back as vice-captain seems desperate as they had appeared to have moved on to Wade.
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That is a very inexperienced squad with 11 of the 16 who have never played an Ashes test in England.
It bodes well for the summer particularly with the first 2 tests at Trent Bridge and Lords where our swing attack should prosper.
And where's Mitchell Johnson when you need him? He bowls to the left.......he bowls to the right.......that Mitchell Johnson.......his bowling is shite
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I don't like Gayle. decided to stick his two fingers up to teh West Indies so he could slap Indian medium pace bowlers around flat tracks to make his millions. The worst type of merecenary there is.
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I don't like Gayle. decided to stick his two fingers up to teh West Indies so he could slap Indian medium pace bowlers around flat tracks to make his millions. The worst type of merecenary there is.
He's not alone in his mercenary ways but at least his dispute with the Windies board of control has been resolved and he is back playing international cricket.
I think that KP will retire from test cricket after the Ashes series down under so he can concentrate on playing in these franchised tournaments and make a shedload of cash. There are already rumours coming out of the England squad that the players are disillusioned at being unable to take part in a full IPL season so the ECB has either got to pay them more or rejig the schedule to avoid May tests, thus freeing them to tap into IPL riches. Otherwise they risk losing them to the mercenary army.
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The ECB does need to look at that to be honest, it's important that there is a balance in place.
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As I've said previously. If your line of work had a short term contract position where you could earn your annual wage for a month of work and every other company in your field let their workers take contracts there but your company blocked you, would you complain? I'm totally on the side of the players, it's crazy to call them mercenaries over it. If you want to question it then those questions should be aimed at the IPL for offering the sums it does, not at players for wanting a slice of the cake whilst it's on offer.
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To be fair, there aren't many England contracted players who would win an IPL contract.
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If anyone at home stick ITV4 on for IPL, KKR just hit 26 off the first over.....could be another good'un in store,
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Anyone interested the bears 4 day game at Somerset starting 10-30 live on sky sports !
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Anyone interested the bears 4 day game at Somerset starting 10-30 live on sky sports !
Thanks for the reminder. I've spent two weeks lying on the sofa after a back operation and I don't think I could have survived another day flicking between SSN and the snooker.
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Good test for Wright and Barker against two England openers.
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Good test for Wright and Barker against two England openers.
Barkers not playing.
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Oooh I will watch some of the Warwick game tomorrow, Sky does have some uses then.
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Just noticed Jacques Kallis gonna miss ICC Champions Trophy through personal reasons. Shame was going to see SA v Pakistan at Edgbaston.
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Bopara back for the Champions Trophy.
I'm surprised at his selection, I thought his chance had come and gone and Root had overtaken him.
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Bopara back for the Champions Trophy.
I'm surprised at his selection, I thought his chance had come and gone and Root had overtaken him.
It does seem odd, but I'm guessing it's down to KP being absent. I doubt Bopara will play much if at all.
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Surely Bopara must be in the last chance saloon now. I too would have preferred to see a younger player given a chance, say someone like Stokes from Durham.
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Surely Bopara must be in the last chance saloon now. I too would have preferred to see a younger player given a chance, say someone like Stokes from Durham.
Stokes blotted his copybook having been sent home from the 'A' Team tour, so he has a long way to go before he gets picked again methinks!
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I don't see Bopara getting in the side unless as a 5th bowler who bats down the order.
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Surely Bopara must be in the last chance saloon now. I too would have preferred to see a younger player given a chance, say someone like Stokes from Durham.
Stokes blotted his copybook having been sent home from the 'A' Team tour, so he has a long way to go before he gets picked again methinks!
Yes very stupid on his part, he's a talented player.
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Start of the Test cricket summer today, really looking forward to it. I really hope Finn goes back to his long run up, he's not the same bowler without it. Also if Bresnan has his snap back that's great news.
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Hmm batting first morning at Lords, that just doesn't seem the right choice from Cook but we'll see.
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I thought that, too - first morning, moisture in the air, will do a bit for the quicks. But it appears they would have batted first, too.
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See this has highlighted my issue with the Cook and Compton partnership. They've done alright, but 45 minutes into play they've only scored 24 runs. It's not hooping around or anything and I think against the top sides you need to impose yourself on the opposition and I'm not sure the top 3 combination we have does that.
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Hmm batting first morning at Lords, that just doesn't seem the right choice from Cook but we'll see.
Win the toss in a Test and 9 times out of 10 you bat first.
On the tenth occasion you have a think about it and then bat first.
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See this has highlighted my issue with the Cook and Compton partnership. They've done alright, but 45 minutes into play they've only scored 24 runs. It's not hooping around or anything and I think against the top sides you need to impose yourself on the opposition and I'm not sure the top 3 combination we have does that.
[Boycott] Proper Test creekit [/Boycott]
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And there you go, Compton is gone and suddenly in spite of not losing a wicket for over an hour and a half we're 46-1 it doesn't look great.
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First home test series without SKY. Sounds like I have not missed much.
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This top three will not work against the best sides, we need to impose our game on the opposition. Strauss at least attempted to increase tempo and could score quick, Compton really doesn't appear to have that in his locker. 16 off 62 and getting out the way he did is not good.
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And there you go, Compton is gone and suddenly in spite of not losing a wicket for over an hour and a half we're 46-1 it doesn't look great.
Looks okay to me, Cook is grinding away and we bat down to number nine at least.
It's Test cricket, no need to score at four an over all the time, if we are 200-3 or 4 at close I'll be perfectly happy.
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And there you go, Compton is gone and suddenly in spite of not losing a wicket for over an hour and a half we're 46-1 it doesn't look great.
Looks okay to me, Cook is grinding away and we bat down to number nine at least.
It's Test cricket, no need to score at four an over all the time, if we are 200-3 or 4 at close I'll be perfectly happy.
You've got to take the bowling attack and predicted weather into account. Also it's important to be able to dominate the opposition otherwise it's hard to get in control of the match. I'm not saying we'll lose, but against the top sides we need more.
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Also the top sides over recent times have tended to score at at least 3 runs and over. We're well short of that and this isn't a one off.
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Also the top sides over recent times have tended to score at at least 3 runs and over. We're well short of that and this isn't a one off.
But we are one of the top sides over recent times, us and South Africa have been one and two for a while and we won in India which is something not many teams achieve.
Yes run rates in Test cricket have gone up, but there is still a place for the top order not losing wickets and grinding down the bowlers, especially when you decide to bat first on a seaming wicket, as England did today. New Zealand have also bowled superbly today, hardly a bad ball all day so far, got to take that into account.
You shouldn't worry about the weather on day one and two, you have to think of it as a five day, 450 over Test match, play the conditions, play each ball on merit and worry about everything else as the game progresses.
Anyway, Bell in now so the run rate will go up a bit I reckon.
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England's run rate was higher prior to Compton coming into the side, India is a bit different as run rates tend to be lower. We need a more dynamic opener with Cook I think, I'm not saying they have to be wreckless but they need to be a bit more of a stroke maker. If you score as slowly as we've done and then lose two wickets fairly cheaply there is a lot of pressure on the middle order.
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Fair one, I'm not convinced about Compton but he does deserve a chance in this series prior to the Ashes. Another failure in the second innings and then we may have to look at someone else to open.
My point is that we shouldn't look at run rates in Test matches, in our line up the faster runs will come in the middle order, as long as the runs come I don't really care how fast they are accumulated. I leave that to those who only like T20!
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Fair enough, I guess provided we our run rate is over 3 runs an over across the innings it's ok, but I definitely we need to impose ourselves more at the top of the innings. Compton deserves a chance, but unless he can show a much more flexible game we shouldn't persevere with him. I'd be looking at Root as opener for the ashes, with KP coming back in and either Bairstow or Morgan at 6. I think that gives our batting much more balance.
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This really is pedestrian stuff.
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Trott gone now, it's looking a bit dicey. Not a great contribution from the top 3.
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I've been pondering my issue with the England team at the moment, and I think it's that since the first innings of the NZ tour which went horribly wrong we look like a team who is trying to avoid losing rather than forcing a win. I think the tone is set by the top 3 being far too one paced and I think Compton probably needs to go. I also think some of Cook's fields are also very negative. It's something that needs addressing.
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I've been pondering my issue with the England team at the moment, and I think it's that since the first innings of the NZ tour which went horribly wrong we look like a team who is trying to avoid losing rather than forcing a win. I think the tone is set by the top 3 being far too one paced and I think Compton probably needs to go. I also think some of Cook's fields are also very negative. It's something that needs addressing.
With no KP our line up looks solid if unspectacular. KP is the one batsman we have who can change a game in a session. I'm also unconvinced by Compton and if he fails in the second innings I'd move Trott up to open and play Taylor from Notts in place of him. If and when KP is fit he'd be back for Taylor.
Cook's captaincy is in its infancy so I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt; negativity was something that was thrown at Andrew Strauss and he did OK.
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We need to have a long look at our approach and come out all guns blazing today. Enough of this negative approach we need to get back to aggressive winning cricket. The series in NZ and the first day of this series have not been good enough.
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Our running in this game has been really poor, we've missed lots of opportunities for singles.
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Shocking, shocking stuff from England again. Our batting looks pathetically poor at the moment.
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You take Pietersen out of our batting line up and at the moment it looks pretty ordinary. We've had a lot of these low scores lately.
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Well this is good stuff, Broad gone now as well. As I said yesterday if you let a team dictate the play against you the pressure on the middle order becomes too great and this is what happens.
If your run rate is this poor and then you lose a couple of wickets you're pretty much buried, short of a miracle lower order revival.
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It looks like we'll need the bowlers to dig us out of trouble again, but even if they manage that there needs to be a serious look at our batting line up.
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300 Test wickets for Anderson, only the fourth Englishman to do this.
The fightback is on.
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Good effort Jimmy, but we're being completely out played again. I'm pretty concerned now, approaching 3 and a half Tests against NZ now and we've been outplayed in 2 and a half of them. This simply isn't good enough at all. Finn doesn't look much use at all since they changed his run up he's lost all his pace. Broad looks poor as well.
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Jimmy strikes, he's the only man keeping us in it at the moment. Taylor showed how to play though.
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Come to think of it Broad has never really developed as a bowler, he came onto the scene and look decent and has never pushed on. If anything he's gone backwards, and his batting has dropped off now as well. If Bresnan has found his mojo again, then we should look at him and Tremlett for Finn if Finn can't get his touch back.
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New Zealand certainly seem to have the mojo over us! They are barely more than a decent County standard but we just can't seem to get going when we play them.
Feck it, bring on the Aussies.
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Finn looked better in the evening because he went back to his longer run up. Personally I'd rather he occasionally hits the stumps with his knee and bowls at good pace, than never hits the stumps with his knee and completely loses his edge.
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That's more like it Broad, pitch it up. MCcullum gone.
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Trott cost a wicket, poor drop.
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Finn getting hammered.
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But he's got the wicket now.
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Jimmy five for.
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Jimmy five for.
Beautiful delivery for his 5-fer
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Finn ends up with 4 for somehow! But a lead, now bat much better England.
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That 25 lead could be quite crucial. I do not see many runs being made for either team in the second innings.
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Bat with intent this innings please England.
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Much better start to second innings, showing intent. If Compton continues like that he has a role in this side.
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I stick with my original view that if you play positively and keep the run rate ticking over you will be a much more successful side and our batting now is showing that.
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Cook gone, great catch poor shot.
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Compton gone. Hmm he's under some pressure now.
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Much more urgency today, much better.
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This thread is beginning to look like the Luke Haines thread where UK Redsox talks to himself.
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Ha ha yes indeed.
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And I shall be talking to myself again, Prior gone for 0 we're looking in a bit of trouble again now.
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Bell finally comes in despite having been "unwell".
I hope we're not going to get a Paula Radcliffe moment here.
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This is falling apart now, really bad collapse.
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Two middle order collapses in two innings.
Not a great performance from our new player of the year.
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250 lead will be more than enough to win this game i feel - would be stunned if New Zealand chased that total down on this wicket.
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I'd feel more comfortable if Bell can hang around and get the score up to close to 280.
You have to allow for Taylor, Rutherford or Master Blaster McCullum (possibly all three) still having an input.
Anything past 300 and the Kiwis are out of it, but that might be a tad ambitious.
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This is horrendously pathetic
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If New Zealand have anything about them, they'll win this.
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Great start by Broad with the ball NZ 16-3
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21-4, we'll win this now I expect but our batting needs to improve a lot.
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Only just tuned in. Bad batting or a bad pitch?
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I think it's a decent pitch it's a really interesting game. Broad looking more like it again.
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Broad with a five-fer. All firing we have a fantastic attack.
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Steamrollered 29-6 at lunch.
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Broad needed this, hopefully he'll continue to bowl like this now.
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That were hilarious.
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Comedic end and we've bowled well after our first day of bowling. We need to look at the batting though as we overall were not impressive, and we've got to start games with sufficient intensity and dominate the opposition and not meander along and let our run rate drift.
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Comedic end and we've bowled well after our first day of bowling. We need to look at the batting though as we overall were not impressive, and we've got to start games with sufficient intensity and dominate the opposition and not meander along and let our run rate drift.
Can't see Compton being a fixture at the top of the order for much longer, so I would look to move Root to opener for the Ashes. The kid is a class act and seems at home at that level. Hopefully KP will be back by then, which just leaves the question of who will bat at six.
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Winning easily without playing particularly well is the sign of a very good team surely?
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Winning easily without playing particularly well is the sign of a very good team surely?
I'd say it's a sign of a good bowling unit. The batting is still a concern.
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Comedic end and we've bowled well after our first day of bowling. We need to look at the batting though as we overall were not impressive, and we've got to start games with sufficient intensity and dominate the opposition and not meander along and let our run rate drift.
Can't see Compton being a fixture at the top of the order for much longer, so I would look to move Root to opener for the Ashes. The kid is a class act and seems at home at that level. Hopefully KP will be back by then, which just leaves the question of who will bat at six.
Depending on his form if we're moving Root to opener and then KP back in at 4, I'd like to see Morgan at 6. That is though like I say dependent on him showing some first class form prior to the Ashes.
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I've said it before, on his day Broad is unplayable, if he could develop some consistency he'd be a special player. He was excellent yesterday, the 5fer from his first 5 overs was spectacular.
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Comedic end and we've bowled well after our first day of bowling. We need to look at the batting though as we overall were not impressive, and we've got to start games with sufficient intensity and dominate the opposition and not meander along and let our run rate drift.
Can't see Compton being a fixture at the top of the order for much longer, so I would look to move Root to opener for the Ashes. The kid is a class act and seems at home at that level. Hopefully KP will be back by then, which just leaves the question of who will bat at six.
Depending on his form if we're moving Root to opener and then KP back in at 4, I'd like to see Morgan at 6. That is though like I say dependent on him showing some first class form prior to the Ashes.
I like Morgan but question whether he has the technique needed to be a test player. He's a wonderful one-day batsman but has been found out at test level. Another Bopara.
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Winning easily without playing particularly well is the sign of a very good team surely?
I'd say it's a sign of a good bowling unit. The batting is still a concern.
Scored 170 more runs that New Zealand did on exactly the same wicket.
It was a low scoring test match, they happen, the pitch, whilst not poor, never allowed any batsman to ever settle in, it was always doing something.
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Winning easily without playing particularly well is the sign of a very good team surely?
I'd say it's a sign of a good bowling unit. The batting is still a concern.
Scored 170 more runs that New Zealand did on exactly the same wicket.
It was a low scoring test match, they happen, the pitch, whilst not poor, never allowed any batsman to ever settle in, it was always doing something.
It was Lords, in May. Bowl a decent line and length and you get your rewards quickly, it was clearly a great wicket for the quicks and offered a bit for the spinners as well, there's no shame in no one getting big scores with the bat, I actually think Root's knocks in both innings were as valuable as a century on most other pitches.
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I'm not only looking at that game in isolation though, we've had quite a few poor collapses over the last year or so. Also with reference to Morgan his struggles came when he completely lost his technique, which he has now rediscovered. So it might be worth looking at him again.
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Yeah, but it wouldn't be England without at least one batting collapse per match!
We'll be fine, Compton looked a bit rusty but has two test centuries already, Prior won't be that poor again all season, Bell had tonsillitis so can be forgiven I reckon, our tail usually wags better than this and will do as the summer wears on, I'm not worried at all.
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I think Compton will be under threat if we don't make a positive batting statement in the next game.
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I think Compton will be under threat if we don't make a positive batting statement in the next game.
I agree. He looks overawed to me, as if he can't believe that he's in the test side. That's in sharp contrast to Joe Root who has slipped right in and looks at home.
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We need to impose ourselves on the opposition, especially the Aussies, and setting that tone starts with the openers. I have nothing against Compton, but his rate of scoring just seems to slow when combined with Cook and Trott.
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Oh and as Paul says, if only Broad could consistently bowl with that sort of length and movement that'd be great.
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We need to impose ourselves on the opposition, especially the Aussies, and setting that tone starts with the openers. I have nothing against Compton, but his rate of scoring just seems to slow when combined with Cook and Trott.
If you have a strike rate of 50ish as one of the opening three batsmen you are doing okay in Test cricket, both Cook and Trott have strike rates just under 50. Opening is not about taking the game to the opposition all the time, it's about seeing off the new ball and setting the game up.
I honestly think that the way the Aussies played in the 90's and 00's when they suddenly started scoring at unprecedented rates has somewhat skewed things, suddenly everyone thinks that scoring at four an over is normal! It's not, and you can't do it in every Test, especially on pitches like the one at Lords.
We have just won a low scoring Test match by a huge margin, the batting performances can be put into perspective by the fact that four seam bowlers, two for each side, had spells where they were virtually unplayable.
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Winning easily without playing particularly well is the sign of a very good team surely?
It's also the sign of a piss poor opposition.
Whilst the way we demolished their 2nd innings was fantastic there's a reason they're ranked last in the world Test rankings (I'm not counting Bangladesh as they never play).
Whilst the Lords pitch is always a bit tasty two batting collapses in two innings against New Zealand needs to be sorted so that it doesn't happen again.
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I'm not only looking at that game in isolation though, we've had quite a few poor collapses over the last year or so. Also with reference to Morgan his struggles came when he completely lost his technique, which he has now rediscovered. So it might be worth looking at him again.
Agree Paul. I'd also like to see Morgan given another chance, as he has previously scored runs at test level and is a special player when on form. I guess Bairstow is the other option at sx if Root is moved to opener and KP comes back in.
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I'm not only looking at that game in isolation though, we've had quite a few poor collapses over the last year or so. Also with reference to Morgan his struggles came when he completely lost his technique, which he has now rediscovered. So it might be worth looking at him again.
Agree Paul. I'd also like to see Morgan given another chance, as he has previously scored runs at test level and is a special player when on form. I guess Bairstow is the other option at sx if Root is moved to opener and KP comes back in.
I'm really not sure on Bairstow, he never looks secure at the wicket. I'm not writing him off, he's only young but he seems to have quite a lot of flaws at the moment.
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I think Taylor is a better long term test prospect than Bairstow
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I think Taylor is a better long term test prospect than Bairstow
I agree with the bat but I'm still not sure how effective we could be in the field with him and prior both starting.
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I fear for Taylor that he seems to have been discarded by our set up. I know he captained the Lions, but that's a step down. It just seems the management don't fancy him.
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Asad Rauf has been pulled from the Champions League by ICC after it became apparent he was being investigated by the Mumbai police. That's a bit of a concern, he's an elite umpire.
I despise anyone found guilty of the fixing that's going on, they are destroying a great game.
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Joe Root reminds me of Benteke. Ability beyond his years, looking comfortable at a level that he's completely new too and the world a his feet. Watching him play, much like Benteke, you feel you are watching the start of a very special talent. The positive with Joe Root, of course, is that he's ours for keeps!
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Probably a couple of wickets too many to call it England's day but it was good to see Root & Bairstow contribute with the bat. Another failure from Compton and Bell will be looking over his shoulder as he could be at risk if Root & Bairstow maintain form and KP regains fitness and scores a few for Surrey.
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Root bats so much like Mike Atherton it's like they cloned him.
England's day definitely given NZ's batting frailties.
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Lost Prior early doors though ct at slip
348 / 8 should be enough
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354 / 9
Finn B Boult
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354 all out
Boult 5 fer
Nearly hour and half at them till lunch Ball swinging around.
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354 all out
Boult 5 fer
Nearly hour and half at them till lunch Ball swinging around.
Not one ball England have bowled can be described as anything other than gun barrel straight.
This pitch is a road without the prodigious swing movement the Kiwi's got.
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354 all out
Boult 5 fer
Nearly hour and half at them till lunch Ball swinging around.
Not one ball England have bowled can be described as anything other than gun barrel straight.
This pitch is a road without the prodigious swing movement the Kiwi's got.
Unfortunately you are right ....surprised me
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Yeah in fairness, I expected Anderson and Broad to get at least the same amount of assistance as the Kiwi bowlers.
Its a bit peculiar that they can't get the cricket balls they make to act more consistently.
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Well at least a couple of quick wkts for Finn just before lunch.
62/2
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Finn is bowling with pace again.
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This is good stuff from Finn.
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Beauty from Swann there.
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And another!
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The second one turned even sharper.
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I thought Williamson looked stone dead there and he was.
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Why is the follow on 150 behind rather than 200?
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Why is the follow on 150 behind rather than 200?
Because we lost a whole days play and it is therefore deemed a four day match for which the follow on score is 150 behind under rule 13.
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Ah thanks for clarifying.
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No follow-on, bit of a surprise but maybe it gives Compton one last chance?
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Very odd.
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That's a very negative decision.
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That's a very negative decision.
But understandable given the poor batting from certain individuals, Compton, Trott, Bell, Prior and even Cook himself need some time in the middle. As much as I'd love to see England go for the jugular I can see why Cook made the decision.
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The cynic in me wonders how ticket sales have gone for this match.....
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The pother thing about not pushing for the follow on is the attitude England come out with, so far we've given it a few overs to size them up and now Cook is swinging big, if he carries on like this we could have a lead of 300+ by the end of the day then we can see how the pitch looks in the morning.
It's not necessarily negative so long as the attitude with the bat is a positive one, which seems to be the case from Cook at least. Allowing Compton to bat without so much pressure might help him get a decent score as well. I'm not concerned for Trott, Cook, Bell or Prior, they're all good enough and proven enough to get their form back, but Compton needs to show he can do a job effectively at the top as he's currently the one who should drop out for KP (with Root moving up to open).
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Compton gone, he just got far too negative.
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I think that could be the nail in the coffin for Compton for the ashes, I'd give Root a go opening in the 3rd test to give him a measure of experience before the aussies.
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Yes, I reckon that's Compton blown it for The Ashes. Can we risk Root opening? I reckon so and I think he'll do a good job as well.
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I think that could be the nail in the coffin for Compton for the ashes, I'd give Root a go opening in the 3rd test to give him a measure of experience before the aussies.
There isn't a third test.
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I think that could be the nail in the coffin for Compton for the ashes, I'd give Root a go opening in the 3rd test to give him a measure of experience before the aussies.
There is no 3rd test mate this is the last test before the Ashes start.........
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I think it's only a two test series.
The thing with Root is that England's middle order has looked wobbly at times in the last couple of years. He brings a fair bit of stability there. Pietersen is hardly a model of consistency.
I'd keep Compton until we see how the land lies with the type of team the Aussies put out. Pitersen at 4, Root 5 and Bell 6.
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Oh, I was convinced it was 3 in this series, big problem then.
Unless Compton scores a bucket load for Somerset I think I'd move root up though, shame we haven't seen him at the top first though.
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The run rate is getting a bit low here - really need to keep it up at 4+ in this situation. We want to declare around lunch tomorrow so we should score a hatful and give them no chance.
I'm really disappointed with Trott so far.
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Not exactly hurrying the run rate along.
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I think they'll retain Compton and drop Bairstow.
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Trott and Compton haven't exactly played for the team here.
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Really poor from Trott, showed with the 2 in the last over that they runs were there. I have no idea why he decided to play it so safe for so long, he's completely misunderstood the game situation and we're now about 45 runs short of where we should be. I really hope we don't draw/lose this now or him and Compton will have to look in the mirror and ask if they've approached this session with the right attitude.
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He's there with the captain. If his approach was wrong I'm pretty sure Cook would have given him the hurry-up.
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Trott and Compton haven't exactly played for the team here.
I'd say they've done exactly that. No point throwing away wickets, we've got a decent lead and a foundation to put the game out of their reach and with it take the series. A win would be a bonus but the important thing is not to lose.
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For the Ashes i would have Root in as an opener and slot KP in at 5.
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Trott and Compton haven't exactly played for the team here.
I'd say they've done exactly that. No point throwing away wickets, we've got a decent lead and a foundation to put the game out of their reach and with it take the series. A win would be a bonus but the important thing is not to lose.
Compton did throw away his wicket though, by being so negative that he was under insane pressure. On top of that Trott put a lot of pressure on Cook. Sensible batting doesn't have to be scoring slowly, you have to take the chances that are presented, which Compton and Trott failed to do. As was said in the commentary, there are very few opportunities for a top order batsman to play with very little pressure. a 180 first innings lead against a side who's best bowler is off the field is as good an opportunity as you'll get and we should have seen them play a few shots and try to build a bit of confidence, particularly in a session where the bowlers were getting nothing from the pitch to help them out.
I'm sure the game is safe, we'd need to have been all out for 100ish for the game to still be alive, but the players need to understand the situation better.
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You make it sound like we're not in control of this match. Trott is playing his usual game, he doesn't do flamboyant!
Compton has probably blown his chance, but that's what pressure does, Cook gave him an ideal opportunity to go out and score some runs but he cracked, a big decision to be made now as to who will open in the Ashes.
As for the game situation, it's in hand, series won already, no need to worry about weather, just play as if there are two full days left. Bat until mid-afternoon tomorrow leaving four and a half sessions to bowl NZ out, if it rains we win 1-0 rather than 2-0, so what.
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You make it sound like we're not in control of this match. Trott is playing his usual game, he doesn't do flamboyant!
Compton has probably blown his chance, but that's what pressure does, Cook gave him an ideal opportunity to go out and score some runs but he cracked, a big decision to be made now as to who will open in the Ashes.
As for the game situation, it's in hand, series won already, no need to worry about weather, just play as if there are two full days left. Bat until mid-afternoon tomorrow leaving four and a half sessions to bowl NZ out, if it rains we win 1-0 rather than 2-0, so what.
Trott isn't playing his usual game, that's why I'm annoyed with it, Trott's strike rate is normally around 50% - yesterday at one point he got 5 from 43 deliveries.
The issue I have is that deciding to not force the follow on was greeted as a negative move but it doesn't have to be. If we'd come out and gone at 4 an over our lead overnight would've been enough, with a morning session to come out swinging and add some big runs, and send a message out that we can be ruthless when we want to be.
I don't trust the Yorkshire weather to give 2 full days from here, we won't declare with a lead below 400 and we were always going to bat until Lunch but if we don't pick the rate up we're going to have to carry on into the afternoon session, and there never should've been any need for that.
Every over we're in the middle after lunch is time lost to get them out and I don't want us to get to the end of play tomorrow with them playing all out defence and clinging on for the draw.
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Alternatively we could have seen NZ batting like madmen, getting a lead of 150 and putting us into bat on a wearing wicket under cloud cover on the last day. They can bowl, we've seen that.
What we have done IS ruthless, we have made sure we can't lose the Test and have therefore won the series, plus we are giving our batsmen time in the middle before The Ashes. Besides, you need to play the match as it stands and not play for the weather report unless you desperately need to win, which we do not.
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Alternatively we could have seen NZ batting like madmen, getting a lead of 150 and putting us into bat on a wearing wicket under cloud cover on the last day. They can bowl, we've seen that.
What we have done IS ruthless, we have made sure we can't lose the Test and have therefore won the series, plus we are giving our batsmen time in the middle before The Ashes. Besides, you need to play the match as it stands and not play for the weather report unless you desperately need to win, which we do not.
Precisely, they have a couple of destructive hitters in their side and first and foremost we had to put the game out of reach. With that achieved we can now play to give ourselves a chance to win the game. This is not a settled batting line up and there was no need to put them under undue pressure.
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Alternatively we could have seen NZ batting like madmen, getting a lead of 150 and putting us into bat on a wearing wicket under cloud cover on the last day. They can bowl, we've seen that.
What we have done IS ruthless, we have made sure we can't lose the Test and have therefore won the series, plus we are giving our batsmen time in the middle before The Ashes. Besides, you need to play the match as it stands and not play for the weather report unless you desperately need to win, which we do not.
What we did was safe, and we then batted to be safe, I don't think it was the right approach. Today we've gone out with the attitude I'd have expected yesterday, Trott looks a different player.
As for we can see they can bowl, yes we have, but with Boult out of the game we only need to get at 1 of their seamers and bat him out of the attack and suddenly the game would've been simple, I think we've let them off the hook a little, we could've made this an massive victory, we'll still win, as we should at home to the worst side in test cricket, but it's not been quite as convincing with the bat as I hoped. Hopefully they free hitting from this morning will carry on until lunch and make it all academic.
As for not playing the weather reports, it's England in May, playing the weather reports is a very important part of the match and there's a very good chance Tuesday will be cut short. We have no excuse if we don't win this match, a 1st innings lead like we had, with the pitch looking to help Swann at every opportunity should be a banker for 2-0. My biggest concern is that if we run out of time Cook will be criticised but I think he made the right call, it just needed much more positive batting than we saw.
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To further my argument; from the BBC tracker:
"133 runs in the session, which is exactly how it should be against this attack on this surface at this stage of the match."
If we'd batted this way yesterday as well we'd have been able to declare half an hour ago and give them an awkward 6-7 overs before lunch. I'm really worried that the weather is against us getting the win we should have here, to walk away from a game where we've been so dominant with a draw would be poor. Trott has shown this morning that he can bat against this team on this surface, he just didn't try yesterday.
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This is odd, I don't know why we haven't declared. Given the weather forecast, we should really be pushing this game along, we have more than enough runs.
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The pleasing thing was that our middle order of Root, Bairstow and Prior are clearly unselfish team players.
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Declared evetually, with about 60 more than we needed and about 15overs later than it should've been. Rain predicted for between 5-6pm and tomorrow will be very little play in all likelihood... I'm a bit dumbstruck by the negativity of it, I always thought it was Strauss that made us the "just don't lose" side of test cricket but it's clearly deeper than that.
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Declared evetually, with about 60 more than we needed and about 15overs later than it should've been. Rain predicted for between 5-6pm and tomorrow will be very little play in all likelihood... I'm a bit dumbstruck by the negativity of it, I always thought it was Strauss that made us the "just don't lose" side of test cricket but it's clearly deeper than that.
I think you're being hyper critical. The first thing to do was not lose and thus secure the series. Then to go out and try to win the game. We've shown we can scuttle them out quickly so it's not as though we've no chance of a win but a bit of ruthless pragmatism is not a bad trait.
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Declared evetually, with about 60 more than we needed and about 15overs later than it should've been. Rain predicted for between 5-6pm and tomorrow will be very little play in all likelihood... I'm a bit dumbstruck by the negativity of it, I always thought it was Strauss that made us the "just don't lose" side of test cricket but it's clearly deeper than that.
I think you're being hyper critical. The first thing to do was not lose and thus secure the series. Then to go out and try to win the game. We've shown we can scuttle them out quickly so it's not as though we've no chance of a win but a bit of ruthless pragmatism is not a bad trait.
I agree. We should skittle them out quickly weather permitting. Their last 20 wickets have fallen in something like 60 overs and only the weather will prevent another England win.
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Declared evetually, with about 60 more than we needed and about 15overs later than it should've been. Rain predicted for between 5-6pm and tomorrow will be very little play in all likelihood... I'm a bit dumbstruck by the negativity of it, I always thought it was Strauss that made us the "just don't lose" side of test cricket but it's clearly deeper than that.
I think you're being hyper critical. The first thing to do was not lose and thus secure the series. Then to go out and try to win the game. We've shown we can scuttle them out quickly so it's not as though we've no chance of a win but a bit of ruthless pragmatism is not a bad trait.
We have shown we can scuttle them out quickly, 3 times in 3 attempts, so why did we need to bat for 76 overs and get a lead of nearly 470.
We've made it pretty much impossible for them to win but we've also made it a lot more difficult to win than it had to be (if the weather turns out as expected). There's a maximum of 69 overs today and potentially a full day tomorrow but in real terms 50overs today looks to be most of what we'll get. We could've got them in 10-15 overs sooner and I'd be a lot more confident if we had. We may well still go on to win this, and if the weather holds we certainly will, but we've made it a risky thing.
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I wonder why the crowd is so poor for this.
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We have shown we can scuttle them out quickly, 3 times in 3 attempts, so why did we need to bat for 76 overs and get a lead of nearly 470.
To give the batsmen time in the middle.
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We have shown we can scuttle them out quickly, 3 times in 3 attempts, so why did we need to bat for 76 overs and get a lead of nearly 470.
To give the batsmen time in the middle.
I'm not sure using a live Test match as essentially practice is really in the spirit of the game. Also it's far enough away from the Ashes not to have any real impact in terms of form and practice. I think you should always be doing your upmost to win Test matches where possible, and I don't think we have done that here. We may still win, and there's no guarantee we would have had we enforced the follow on, but it would have been mor elikely given the weather forecast.
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Playing is the best practice you can get.
We are probably going to win this game inside three and a half days of actual playing time, we've won the series and the batsmen have had time in the middle that they wouldn't have got had Cook enforced the follow-on or declared earlier. I think we've played it perfectly.
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I've just been watching Ian Smith the NZ TV commentator he is basically in bits pissing himself about the fact that we are still at Headingley today and that NZ may get a draw out of this game where England have been far and away the superior side, but batting far too long and not having the time to wrap game up last night. As it stands we probably need 2 hours cricket to finish them off which with weather may not be possible.
Play is due to start at 11:45 lets hope that happens and we get the requisite time needed.
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To be honest I'm amazed that there is any prospect of play today. Good news if we get sufficient time to take the remaining wickets.
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Broad just taken a supern caught and bowled to get rid of McCallum - with him gone likely we will do it then!!!
162 - 7
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They've been throwing the bat but Swann has got Southee.
Now who will win, England or the weather?
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218/8
Southee ct Trott b Swann
5 fer for Swanny
But a very entertaining partnership 50 off 35 balls
Raining again now but still out there at moment
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Rain Stops play.
Managed 47 minutes
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If we don't win this, it'll be for two reasons firstly we didn't enforce the follow on and secondly we batted on for far too long after we had declined that follow on.
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I also don't understand cricket sometimes, the light has improved slightly but they've brought lunch forward. We've already lost a lot of the morning, why don't they make lunch later?
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If we don't win this, it'll be for two reasons firstly we didn't enforce the follow on and secondly we batted on for far too long after we had declined that follow on.
I supported not enforxcing the follow on, but the target should been to get a lead of 400with 9-10 overs left before lunch giving them a short session where Jimmy and Broad could go all out and then the rest of the day. The 15ish overs extra that would've allowed us would mean game over by now. As said they were so concerned with not losing that they've risked the win. If we get another hour today it's all over but the weather was always going to be against us.
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I'm a little concerned with the focus on not losing, we should have faith our bowling attack to knock NZ over or anyone for that matter for less that 400.
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Play due to start again at 3pm
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Bracewell gone to Swann LBW, 1 to go. It's fecking dark there though.
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If they were trying to score this would be great bowling from Finn, but against someone who's just trying to stay in until the rain comes he need to force him to play every ball. Move one of the slips to leg side and bowl fuller and straighter.
Swann looks unplayable.
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They've batted 7.3 overs without scoring a run. Get Finn off and stick Jimmy on! We need that last wicket before it rains anymore!!
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Job done.
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They've batted 7.3 overs without scoring a run. Get Finn off and stick Jimmy on! We need that last wicket before it rains anymore!!
Good call!
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Glad we won, I think we got a bit fortunate as it could easily have rained all day. I hope moving forward Cook is a bit more positive with his decisions, as to get to the top I think we need to be a little less conservative. However some really good individual performances, notably Root, Cook and Swann and a much improved Finn means a good Test for us.
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Finally we've dodged the showers to record a win. It can rain all it wants now!
Wonderful performance from Swann with a 10-fer in the match. Remarkable figures for a spinner at Headingley.
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Finally we've dodged the showers to record a win. It can rain all it wants now!
Wonderful performance from Swann with a 10-fer in the match. Remarkable figures for a spinner at Headingley.
It's the best Swann has bowled in about 2 years, so it looks like his elbow surgery has really helped which is great.
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Glad we won, I think we got a bit fortunate as it could easily have rained all day. I hope moving forward Cook is a bit more positive with his decisions, as to get to the top I think we need to be a little less conservative. However some really good individual performances, notably Root, Cook and Swann and a much improved Finn means a good Test for us.
I wonder if the conservatism comes from Flower? Strauss was often accused of being too conservative. It seems that Cook & Strauss are by nature conservative whereas someone like Michael Vaughan always seemed to be prepared to take a few calculated risks with notable rewards.
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Glad we won, I think we got a bit fortunate as it could easily have rained all day. I hope moving forward Cook is a bit more positive with his decisions, as to get to the top I think we need to be a little less conservative. However some really good individual performances, notably Root, Cook and Swann and a much improved Finn means a good Test for us.
To be fair with an inexperienced batting line up it's understandable that we were a little conservative in our approach. Compton, Root and Bairstow have only a handful of caps between them and I think Cook tried to protect them a little.
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Very relieved we won, we made it hard on ourselves. I still think Trott needed to play the situation better on Sunday though.
As with VFL above I'm fairly convinced the caution comes from Flower as Cook seemed a lot more positive before (when he captained the bangladesh tour for example) and it's slowly been worn away.
Lovely delivery from Jimmy to get the last wicket, exactly how to bowl at a tail ender, full enough and straight enough that he had to go for it and enough movement to make it one even a top order batsman would have struggled with.
Swann has had a fantastic match, loads of variation in bounce and spin and used the rough areas really well. In that form he'd blow away far better sides than NZ.
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Glad we won, I think we got a bit fortunate as it could easily have rained all day. I hope moving forward Cook is a bit more positive with his decisions, as to get to the top I think we need to be a little less conservative. However some really good individual performances, notably Root, Cook and Swann and a much improved Finn means a good Test for us.
To be fair with an inexperienced batting line up it's understandable that we were a little conservative in our approach. Compton, Root and Bairstow have only a handful of caps between them and I think Cook tried to protect them a little.
Again, as I said on Sunday evening, I hope the comments about negativity don't all focus on Cook, he should have declared sooner but a lot of the issues were due to a very nervy performance from Compton and mind-numbing session from Trott.
I think Compton will be the one to make way for KP unfortunately, I just can't see him getting his form back in time for the 1st test as he's looked lost in all 4 innings this series.
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Glad we won, I think we got a bit fortunate as it could easily have rained all day. I hope moving forward Cook is a bit more positive with his decisions, as to get to the top I think we need to be a little less conservative. However some really good individual performances, notably Root, Cook and Swann and a much improved Finn means a good Test for us.
To be fair with an inexperienced batting line up it's understandable that we were a little conservative in our approach. Compton, Root and Bairstow have only a handful of caps between them and I think Cook tried to protect them a little.
Possibly yeah, but I think that once they're starting Test matches the captain should have faith that they can do the job. As I said we won the game and that's what matters, but I hope Cook learns to be a bit more proactive in future. It's experience for him as well, provided he learns from it.
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Glad we won, I think we got a bit fortunate as it could easily have rained all day. I hope moving forward Cook is a bit more positive with his decisions, as to get to the top I think we need to be a little less conservative. However some really good individual performances, notably Root, Cook and Swann and a much improved Finn means a good Test for us.
To be fair with an inexperienced batting line up it's understandable that we were a little conservative in our approach. Compton, Root and Bairstow have only a handful of caps between them and I think Cook tried to protect them a little.
Again, as I said on Sunday evening, I hope the comments about negativity don't all focus on Cook, he should have declared sooner but a lot of the issues were due to a very nervy performance from Compton and mind-numbing session from Trott.
I think Compton will be the one to make way for KP unfortunately, I just can't see him getting his form back in time for the 1st test as he's looked lost in all 4 innings this series.
Yes that is true, in fairness to Cook he batted at a really good tempo once he'd decided not to follow on. It was Compton and Trott that gave us problems with their desperately slow batting, which was not at all what the situation required. It's alright Trott saying, 'I play my game', but Cook is not naturally a stroke maker but he increased his scoring rate because of the match situation.
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Glad we won, I think we got a bit fortunate as it could easily have rained all day. I hope moving forward Cook is a bit more positive with his decisions, as to get to the top I think we need to be a little less conservative. However some really good individual performances, notably Root, Cook and Swann and a much improved Finn means a good Test for us.
To be fair with an inexperienced batting line up it's understandable that we were a little conservative in our approach. Compton, Root and Bairstow have only a handful of caps between them and I think Cook tried to protect them a little.
Again, as I said on Sunday evening, I hope the comments about negativity don't all focus on Cook, he should have declared sooner but a lot of the issues were due to a very nervy performance from Compton and mind-numbing session from Trott.
I think Compton will be the one to make way for KP unfortunately, I just can't see him getting his form back in time for the 1st test as he's looked lost in all 4 innings this series.
I agree. His confidence is shot and he was noticeably nervous in England's second innings. If he gets that nervous against the Kiwis, what will he be like against the Crims who will undoubtedly play upon his fragile self-confidence?
He doesn't have a great deal of 1st class cricket between now and the start of the Ashes on 10th July either. Potentially, he has 2 county championship games for Somerset and 2 four-day freindlies, one for Somerset and one for an England XI.
Fingers crossed that KP is fit for the Ashes.
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Comptons technique is not up to it,Root opens and KP at 5.This is a poor Australian side but we need to keep the foot on the throat.
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Comptons technique is not up to it,Root opens and KP at 5.This is a poor Australian side but we need to keep the foot on the throat.
KP at 4, Bell down to 5 but otherwise I agree, Root and Bairstow can't be dropped and we can't leave out KP if he's fit, regardless of anything else, he's a special player and we need him in the big games.
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Alec Stewart's view on the series - here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/22688785)
He, like me, gives Compton and Trott some stick over the slow batting on Sunday.
More importantly check the bowling stats, the averages for all 4 of them are stunning, we've been truly exceptional with the ball in this series.
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Might pop along to the Champions Trophy warm up match at Edgbaston tomorrow. Pakistan v Sri Lanka. £15 a ticket for International cricket, okay so it's a friendly but seems good value to me.
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Might pop along to the Champions Trophy warm up match at Edgbaston tomorrow. Pakistan v Sri Lanka. £15 a ticket for International cricket, okay so it's a friendly but seems good value to me.
Yeah weather permitting it should be a good game.
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It was slightly concerning as Jonathan Agnew eluded to that the England team seem to be a bit tetchy towards the media at the moment. It could indicate a bit of stress given the Ashes are coming up, I think they need to relax as a group. We're a better team than the Aussies and just need to play our game.
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It was slightly concerning as Jonathan Agnew eluded to that the England team seem to be a bit tetchy towards the media at the moment. It could indicate a bit of stress given the Ashes are coming up, I think they need to relax as a group. We're a better team than the Aussies and just need to play our game.
I was bored last night and watched the highlights on Five at 7pm followed by the Sky highlights at 8pm. The reaction of Flower, Cook & Root to the Five and Sky guys was open and amenable. Their reaction to Aggers which I heard in the TMS podcast was different. Maybe they have a problem with dear old Aunty or even with Aggers?
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Yes possibly not sure why though.
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Probably purely down to the stick they were getting from the TMS commentators, almost to a man they were lambasting Cook for not enforcing the follow on and then not declaring earlier on TMS, whereas Sky were a lot easier on Cook's decision. Even after the win the TMS pundits were still having a go.
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They still should've forced the follow-on though...
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They still should've forced the follow-on though...
Why? They won in less than 3 and a half days of actual playing time and gave most of the batsmen valuable time in the middle.
I'm not backing down here!
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They ended up about ten minutes away from not beating New Zealand, who are shite (I think it started chucking it down again shortly after the tenth wicket fell).
Had they declared they would probably have skittled them and won on day four.
Of course, back in the day, just making sure of the series would've been enough and nobody would've criticised the decision, even if they only won the series one-nil.
If you want to get to the top of the Test Rankings though, you have to be looking to whitewash gash like New Zealand.
They got away with it, so I'm not unduly bothered though.
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They had already beaten New Zealand (in the series), this was just a case of crushing them into the ground and humiliating them utterly or just crushing them into the ground and allowing our batsmen a bit of time in the middle.
If this were the Aussies I'd have gone with the former, but with them bastards coming up later I'm happy with how Cook played it.
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What I meant was they had already won the series, but should have been trying to make absolutely sure of two-nil for the sake of the Test rankings. Wrapping up the series one-nil would've been a disappointment.
As for time at the middle, I doubt they'll benefit too much bearing in mind the Ashes is still two months away.
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Looking back at the Test match I'm less bothered with not enforcing the follow on and have more of an issue with Compton and Trott preventing an earlier declaration. Also Trott said 'you can't dictate the game', actually you can and you should if you want to be the best team in the world.
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There seems to have been a move away from enforcing the follow on in test cricket in recent years.
At one time a side would almost always enforce the follow on. Now it's not so often. Maybe it's a mental disintegration thing. In the dark days of the 1990's England often batted through in a second innings to avoid an innings defeat, sometimes aided by the weather. Maybe the prospect of a minimum 200 + deficit is tougher to face. the side with the advantage scores quickly and the deficit is even larger.
Ultimately England won; moaning about the follow on is a bit like saying a certain goal scored on the 26th May 1982 went in off a shin therefore the victory was tarnished.
Which it did and it wasn't!
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Looking back at the Test match I'm less bothered with not enforcing the follow on and have more of an issue with Compton and Trott preventing an earlier declaration. Also Trott said 'you can't dictate the game', actually you can and you should if you want to be the best team in the world.
I agree to a point but given that Trott was batting with his Captain, I'm sure if it was an issue then Cook would have told him to speed up or take one for the team.
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I agree, but Trott in particular needs to learn his lesson from this game. Compton is playing for his place so I can understand how the pressure got to him, it doesn't mean he should stay in the team but I can see the reason. Trott is an established member of the team and his play in the last hour or so of the 3rd day was really poor and not what the team needed.
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I agree, but Trott in particular needs to learn his lesson from this game. Compton is playing for his place so I can understand how the pressure got to him, it doesn't mean he should stay in the team but I can see the reason. Trott is an established member of the team and his play in the last hour or so of the 3rd day was really poor and not what the team needed.
Ultimately it didn't matter though did it?
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No, but only due to some fortune with the weather. Plus just because you win doesn't mean you ignore the errors that were made. Top teams improve because they identify and improve on mistakes even when they're winning.
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There seems to have been a move away from enforcing the follow on in test cricket in recent years.
At one time a side would almost always enforce the follow on. Now it's not so often. Maybe it's a mental disintegration thing. In the dark days of the 1990's England often batted through in a second innings to avoid an innings defeat, sometimes aided by the weather. Maybe the prospect of a minimum 200 + deficit is tougher to face. the side with the advantage scores quickly and the deficit is even larger.
There's also not wanting to overtire the bowlers, enforce the follow-on and you could be subjecting them to two and a half days of continuous bowling, even with Swann twirling away at one end you can end up injuring one of your front line seamers if you're not careful.
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There seems to have been a move away from enforcing the follow on in test cricket in recent years.
At one time a side would almost always enforce the follow on. Now it's not so often. Maybe it's a mental disintegration thing. In the dark days of the 1990's England often batted through in a second innings to avoid an innings defeat, sometimes aided by the weather. Maybe the prospect of a minimum 200 + deficit is tougher to face. the side with the advantage scores quickly and the deficit is even larger.
There's also not wanting to overtire the bowlers, enforce the follow-on and you could be subjecting them to two and a half days of continuous bowling, even with Swann twirling away at one end you can end up injuring one of your front line seamers if you're not careful.
Not following-on isn't a problem, too many people have focused on that but it was a perfectly acceptable decision. However it is a defensive move, the way you can make it positive is by having a plan to score quickly, get the game beyond them and then declare early, giving yourself as long a session as possible to force a result.
I firmly believe the plan should've been to declare around a lead of 400-450 with 10 overs to go to lunch. You lose 2 for the change so that'd have been 8 over before lunch and then another 8-10 that we lost afterwards.
We were very lucky that the weather held, there had been light drizzle for a couple of overs before we got the last wicket and it never cleared up enough that we'd have been able to come back out so we were right on the cusp of having to settle for a draw. When you've bowled as well as we did there shouldn't have been any chance for New Zealand to get away with anything.
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Adil Rashid has just completed his third century in three matches, currently averages 252.00 in the county championship. A genuine all rounder, great fielder too.
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Six weeks before the start of the Ashes, if you listen very closely you can hear the sound of the bottom of an Aussie barrel being scraped:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/638372.html
Another Michael Beer perhaps? Strangely Warnie has been very quiet on this one!
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Yes saw an article about this, it's not the biggest vote in confidence for Lyon is it.
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Enforcing the follow would have given New Zealand a chance of winning the game. The lead was only 180, a half decent batting performance could have left England looking at 170+ on a fourth innings pitch. Why ask for the slightest chance of trouble?
Given the reservations about keeping bowlers in the field for too long, and the amount of time left in the game Batting again was the right thing to do.
The turgid batting was a understandable to a degree, Cook personally wanted to push the score along, blocking up the other end to avoid losing early wickets wasn't such bad idea.
It was the timing of the declaration that someone needs to answer for. England delayed far too long. Once you've got past a lead of 400 the only thing you realistically achieve is to occupy the crease and run down the clock on the opposition's behalf.
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Finn and Broad out of first two games, that's a bit of a blow.
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Enforcing the follow would have given New Zealand a chance of winning the game. The lead was only 180, a half decent batting performance could have left England looking at 170+ on a fourth innings pitch. Why ask for the slightest chance of trouble?
Given the reservations about keeping bowlers in the field for too long, and the amount of time left in the game Batting again was the right thing to do.
The turgid batting was a understandable to a degree, Cook personally wanted to push the score along, blocking up the other end to avoid losing early wickets wasn't such bad idea.
It was the timing of the declaration that someone needs to answer for. England delayed far too long. Once you've got past a lead of 400 the only thing you realistically achieve is to occupy the crease and run down the clock on the opposition's behalf.
Against a side who lost their best fast bowler after 2 overs and on a pitch that was as predictable as a car park at the time?
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The slow batting from Trott on the 3rd day was not excusable in any way and hopefully that has been pointed out to him now.
Moving on if Bell has a good ODI series opening I think he's a potential option up there for the Ashes. Him and Cook have a good relationship in ODIs now.
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Toss won by NZ this morning and they have put England in to bat in overcast conditions,
Currently 23/0 6 overs
Cook 12 (23)
Bell 10 (13)
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10 overs
England 45 / 0
Cook 25 (36)
Bell 18 (24)
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Bell ct Ronchi b Southee 18 (25)
45 - 1
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Don't mind Finn and Broad being out, keep 'em fit for The Ashes. Gives Woakes a chance anyway.
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Hmm Bell isn't in the best nick at the moment.
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Cook ct Ronchi b Southee 32
Trott 0 (5)
50 - 2 12.4 overs
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Hmm openers getting in and not going on.
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57 - 2 15 overs
Trott 5 (12)
Root 2 (7)
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Don't mind Finn and Broad being out, keep 'em fit for The Ashes. Gives Woakes a chance anyway.
I agree with this, Woakes needs some game time, like Root he has been quality in the county game for a while and I think he has the ability to have a similar impact.
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Don't mind Finn and Broad being out, keep 'em fit for The Ashes. Gives Woakes a chance anyway.
I agree with this, Woakes needs some game time, like Root he has been quality in the county game for a while and I think he has the ability to have a similar impact.
In principle i agree with you re Woakes but for me he spends too much time around the squad and not playing when he could be getting game time playing for Bears - christ we need him at moment.
At least he is playing today.
64 - 2 17 overs
Trott 8 (16)
Root 6 (15)
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That's one of my bug bears about England, they don't release squad players to their counties anywhere near enough. Some fringe players will hardly play any cricket at all for weeks on end.
I suppose with central contracts England can do what they want as they are paying the players but it would be better to let them get some playing time.
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I'm not sure Woakes has the quality to have the impact that Root has, because I think he'd mainly seen as a bowler who can bat. His bowling is still short of a bit of speed to hurry the batsmen. I think he's a good player, but I think Root will be a great player.
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20 overs
81 - 2
Trott 15 (27)
Root 16 (22)
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Root will certainly have the bigger impact but Woakes is slowly adding yards of extra pace but whilst in England squad he wont have the opportunity to experiment whereas when with Bears and more importantly Graeme Welch he will. He should be allowed to develop with Warwickshire by being released to play for Bears whenever the opportunity arises.
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100 - 2
24.1 overs
50 partnership
Root 23 (32)
Trott 27 (42)
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117 - 3
Root b N. McCallum 30 (40)
26.4 overs
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128 - 4 28.3
Trott Ct Taylor b N.McCallum 37 (53)
Morgan 6 (7)
Buttler in
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126 - 5
Morgan ct Ronchi b McClenaghan 6 (9)
Oh dear!
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See this is the problem with losing two established batsmen in quick succession.
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147 - 5 35 overs
Woakes 15 (23)
Buttler 6 (15)
N. McCallum 10 0 34 2
Batting powerplay just starting
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Awful shot from Trott - the exact reverse of Sunday his job there was to keep things steady and let the next 4 come in and hit quick runs at the other end.
I really like Trott and think he's key to England being the side we are but he's not had a great week.
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I'd agree I like Trott and think he's really important, but sometimes he needs to be better at assessing situations and acting accordingly.
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Buttler ct McClenaghan b Williamson 14 (25)
Woakes 19 (33)
159 - 6 38.2
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19 - 1 in the 5 over batting powerplay
166 - 6 40 overs
Not good
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182 - 7 43.2
Woakes ct b Mills 36 (53)
Bresnan 5 (10)
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Woakes did alright, but this has been a really really poor batting display. As soon as we start playing across the line we look awful.
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No fluency in the batting dept, not helped by such positive captaincy from Brendon McCallum - everything he does has a positive take to it.
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Woakes did alright, but this has been a really really poor batting display. As soon as we start playing across the line we look awful.
Difficult for woakes, he would've expected to come in 8-9 overs later than he did with a freedom to score some big runs, instead he was having to try to anchor the innings. The top 4 all failed after getting set, that's a bit of a concern, seeing the middle order go trying to hit it out of the ground is then a bit frustrating but fairly understandable, that's the job they should be doing to an extent. Lots out sweeping though, which suggest the pitch isn't as flat as it looks if they're misjudging pace and bounce.
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216 - 9 48.3
Bresnan b Southee 25 (32)
Swann 10 (9)
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Good effort from Bres.
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Sweeping is frequently a downfall of ours.
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Sorry meant 8 not 9
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Good effort from Bres.
yeah, did his job well therehung around long enough that we'll bat out the innings and score quickly enough that we can have a decent total to defend.
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227 - 9
Swann ct N McCallum b N McClenaghan 15 (14)
Anderson Not Out 5 (4)
Innings closed
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NZ 1-1 0.3
Ronchi Ct Swann b Anderson 0
Guptill 0 (0)
Williamson ct Buttler b Anderson 0
1 - 2 0.5
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Great over from Jimmy. This pitch definitely has something in it, bowl in the right areas and it gives you rewards.
Will be interesting to see Bres on here, with his skiddier deliveries he could be very dangerous, depends how sharp he is.
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Rubbish from Dernbach.......how he is in this team ahead of Chris Wright is beyond me
If he didnt play for Surrey he would be no where near this team
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For f---s sake dont mention Chris Wright!!!!
But you're right about Dernbach - call up Wood or Maeker (how ever you spell it) not Wright we're struggling enough!!!!
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For f---s sake dont mention Chris Wright!!!!
But you're right about Dernbach - call up Wood or Maeker (how ever you spell it) not Wright we're struggling enough!!!!
Okay I think we can agree someone else other than Dernbach :-)
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For f---s sake dont mention Chris Wright!!!!
But you're right about Dernbach - call up Wood or Maeker (how ever you spell it) not Wright we're struggling enough!!!!
Okay I think we can agree someone else other than Dernbach :-)
Dernbach's third over was very good though, if he can get to a point where he gets that level consistently he could be a top bowler, he does offer something England don't get otherwise, it's just drowned out in a sea of poor deliveries and cheap runs. I can see why they pick him though.
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For f---s sake dont mention Chris Wright!!!!
But you're right about Dernbach - call up Wood or Maeker (how ever you spell it) not Wright we're struggling enough!!!!
Okay I think we can agree someone else other than Dernbach :-)
Dernbach's third over was very good though, if he can get to a point where he gets that level consistently he could be a top bowler, he does offer something England don't get otherwise, it's just drowned out in a sea of poor deliveries and cheap runs. I can see why they pick him though.
I am sorry I cant he cant even bowl one side of the wicket consistently.........
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9 Overs
NZ 41 - 2
Guptil 9 (14)
Taylor 27 (35)
Anderson 2 - 19 from 5
Dernbach 0 - 19? from 4
Woakes replacing Dernbach
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His 4th over summed him up for me, 1 shocker that went to the fence but the rest of the over was as good Jimmy is offering since the first over.
I totally get why people don't like Dernbach, he's wasteful and expensive, but I think there is something there if he can get a bit more consistency in his line, he changes pace and length really well but his line wanders too much for it to be as threatening as it could be.
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We need to break this partnership now.
Very poor first overs from Woakes and Bres, too many cheap runs.
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To be fair to Woakes he bowled last ball of his first over for the hook and Bresnan too far in off the boundary, would have been a simple catch.
70 - 2 12 overs
Taylor 33 (40)
Guptil 30 (28)
Yes we need to break partnership quickly
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Another bad over, you can't bowl waist high on leg in international cricket.
Lovely first delivery of the next from Bres, more like that and we'll get some joy. 2nd was similar.
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Bit harsh on Bres Paul, this is the best I've seen him bowl in about 2 years. He's got some nip back and is keeping it tight. Woakes has been really poor.
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I see England have called up Boyd Rankin to the squad, obviously they've watched Dernbach and realised he's hopeless.
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I just don't get the obsession with Dernbach, he's the most expensive bowler in ODI cricket. I just don't rate him, they bang on about his variations but he's all over the place.
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Desperate wicketkeeping from Buttler.
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I just don't get the obsession with Dernbach, he's the most expensive bowler in ODI cricket. I just don't rate him, they bang on about his variations but he's all over the place.
Woakes isn't the answer and neither is Rankin. Woakes is not an international class bowler and Rankin is far too wayward. We will really miss Broad and Finn in the next couple of games.
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Fine innings from Guptil. Exactly what England needed and didn't get.
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I just don't get the obsession with Dernbach, he's the most expensive bowler in ODI cricket. I just don't rate him, they bang on about his variations but he's all over the place.
Woakes isn't the answer and neither is Rankin. Woakes is not an international class bowler and Rankin is far too wayward. We will really miss Broad and Finn in the next couple of games.
Indeed I can't see Woakes ever being an international bowler.
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I'm glad Guptill got his century he earned it and that was a bit of a hammering.
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Bit harsh on Bres Paul, this is the best I've seen him bowl in about 2 years. He's got some nip back and is keeping it tight. Woakes has been really poor.
The bad over comment was about woakes not bres. I thought swann, jimmy and bres bowled really well today.
woakes really struggled but it's harsh to say he's not international class because of it, he needs a bit of time to see if he can step up. I still think there is a special player in there, he's very intelligent with the ball and bats well enough to score big runs at the death. He looked a bit out of his depth today, dropping him would ruin his confidence though so they need to give him the next game as the minimum.
Dernbach was the same as he always is, lots of poor deliveries which were punished and made him expensive but enough good deliveries for the selectors to still think there's something there to work with. The LBW that was overturned was a peach for example, and he had a beauty of an inswinging yorker in the same spell that deserved something. If he could stop drifting onto leg he'd be a good ODI bowler but that tendency for the ball to slip out the side just makes him expensive and frustrating.
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A lot of comments on the bowling here but if your batsmen can only score 227 0n a decent pitch then they are on a hiding to nothing really.
Woakes was poor though, and he hasn't yet shown anything in International cricket. One who will only ever be a good County player maybe? Time yet but he needs to do something soon or he will just get forgotten by the selectors.
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A lot of comments on the bowling here but if your batsmen can only score 227 0n a decent pitch then they are on a hiding to nothing really.
Woakes was poor though, and he hasn't yet shown anything in International cricket. One who will only ever be a good County player maybe? Time yet but he needs to do something soon or he will just get forgotten by the selectors.
Yeah I'd agree with that and the principle problem was batsmen getting in and then out, we've been doing that quite a lot lately in ODIs.
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...
The turgid batting was a understandable to a degree, Cook personally wanted to push the score along, blocking up the other end to avoid losing early wickets wasn't such bad idea.
...
Against a side who lost their best fast bowler after 2 overs and on a pitch that was as predictable as a car park at the time?
It's hardly a one man attack and in NZ they looked pretty useful on pitches far blander than Lords against a batting line-up that hasn't been that solid since the capitulation to Pakistan in the UAE.
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New Zealand aren't a bad One Day Team and on their day can beat anyone, so don't underestimate them. Guptill is a very classy one day and T20 batsmen.
England just didn't score enough. You need 260+ to even be competitive in one-dayers nowadays.
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Looks like a nice day at Edgbaston
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Woakes does not look an international class bowler.
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Holding reckons our side looks a little too 'bits and pieces', I'm not sure I agree with that but Woakes and Dernbach don't offer anywhere near enough.
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Buttler's wicketkeeping doesn't look particularly sharp.
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I think the key is that if Broad or Finn had been available we could accomodate woakes or dernbach as the 5th bowler, having to play both means we look short, particularly given that Bresnan, whilst he holds an end up well and has good economy, isn't a great wicket taker. He's a perfect 4th bowler, which means we're still missing a frontline wicket taker.
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I agree on that, it's a bit worrying how weak our bowling stocks look here though. I'd have had Onions in before Dernbach to be honest.
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What a fantastic delivery from Bresnan, we should make it a secret weapon!!
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This has been a really poor fielding display, but that was a fine catch from Woakes.
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320 is get able at the Rose Bowl however anthing over 330 will be difficult.
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What a fantastic delivery from Bresnan, we should make it a secret weapon!!
I think the Aussies might ask for a video of that'
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I don't care about the odd good delivery, Dernbach is not good enough.
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I think we've been very negative in the field again, it has been everyone pushed out to the rope again, the best odi sides tend to have a lot more fielders in catching positions.
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I think they've got that one on the rope wrong, if it's 50/50 you should go with the fielding side.
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Diabolical over from Bresnan.
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It should be advantage to attack not defence so boundary 50/50 should always go to batting team not that it's going to make a great deal of difference
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Dernbach specialist 'death bowler', he is absolutely dreadful. This has been a desperate bowling and fielding display, pathetic England. Dernbach should go away and learn how to bowl. The others were useless as well to be honest.
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Dernbach specialist 'death bowler', he is absolutely dreadful. This has been a desperate bowling and fielding display, pathetic England. Dernbach should go away and learn how to bowl. The others were useless as well to be honest.
Dernbach and woakes will both drop out of the team if broad and finn are fit and unfortunately they can have no complaints. I still think we were far too negative in the field in the middle overs, on a big pitch like this you need to cut the singles and 2s off and make them try to hit over you to score, certainly in the middle overs where they're trying to set up a situation where they can go after you. we didn't do it, and got hit for 132 from the last 10.
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Well at least Guptill's going to be out of runs by the time Trophy matches start!
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Dernbach specialist 'death bowler', he is absolutely dreadful. This has been a desperate bowling and fielding display, pathetic England. Dernbach should go away and learn how to bowl. The others were useless as well to be honest.
Dernbach and woakes will both drop out of the team if broad and finn are fit and unfortunately they can have no complaints. I still think we were far too negative in the field in the middle overs, on a big pitch like this you need to cut the singles and 2s off and make them try to hit over you to score, certainly in the middle overs where they're trying to set up a situation where they can go after you. we didn't do it, and got hit for 132 from the last 10.
It was utterly horrendous all round. Guptill was brilliant though.
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Well at least Guptill's going to be out of runs by the time Trophy matches start!
Not if hes still facing the utter dross of Woakes and Dernbach.
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That was painful to watch. I now have my old man plonked in my front room waiting for me to start a barbeque and chuntering away to himself about our bowling performance. It is a toss up which he prefers, moaning about our international cricket team or our international football team. If we lose to Brazil tonight I will avoid any contact with him tomorrow in person or by phone.
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Started the right way with the bat, they need to keep scoring but keep it sensible.
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They've made a solid start.
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That was painful to watch. I now have my old man plonked in my front room waiting for me to start a barbeque and chuntering away to himself about our bowling performance. It is a toss up which he prefers, moaning about our international cricket team or our international football team. If we lose to Brazil tonight I will avoid any contact with him tomorrow in person or by phone.
The football team is a lot lower in equivalent standard than the cricket team.
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Cook out after a start again.
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Cook out after a start again.
Bugger, he was looking really good as well.
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He was. It's up to Trott to show he can play for the team now.
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Bell start and out, poor.
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Trott is already at a strike rate of under 50.
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I don't mind him starting slowly for 10-15 balls, but he's got out of that window now so he needs to start scoring at 80%+
If these 2 can keep the rate below 10 an over up to about the 35th Buttler and Morgan can score big runs quick;y, but we need to give them something to chase.
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This is really slow from Trott given the situation, he has got to do better.
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A 6 from Trott!
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Root start and out.
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This is a bad pattern we're developing.
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Morgan start and out, rubbish.
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Buttler that is piss poor, people rave about his talent but I've seen one good innings in all his international games.
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I think the pressure of chasing such a big total has got to us.
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I remember the 1 over 29 from Buttler at Rdgbaston on a very cold September night last year so if he can put together a couple of those its England's match!
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I remember the 1 over 29 from Buttler at Rdgbaston on a very cold September night last year so if he can put together a couple of those its England's match!
Bit late.
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I think the pressure of chasing such a big total has got to us.
Thing is it's exactly the same pattern we've had in other situations. Lots of starts and not carrying through.
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Well Buttler didn't last long, it's up to the mighty Bears pair to cause an upset.
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I really need to not post just as I have walked away from TV! Buttler will be remembered as that 1 over man!
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Other than that one over you referenced Aftab, Buttler has done nothing at all in international cricket. How he gets in front of Prior I have no idea.
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Right school/university?
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Maybe. England's thinking seems cluttered though, why is Bairstow good enough for the Test team when he's considered a big hitter and not good enough for ODI?
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I am not a fan of wholesale selection based on one dayer or test player. Other than one or two note able exceptions generally class counts in all forms of cricket.
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I'm the same, hence why our bowling has been so poor.
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In fairness to Trott he's the only batsman with any credit here.
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That'll be Woakes done with international cricket for a long time I expect.
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This has been a desperately poor display and this team needs changing.
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Woakes and Dernbach were woeful today, never seen so many wayward deliveries. Both should be dropped.
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Woakes, Dernbach and Buttler should all go. I'm not sure Buttler has the mental strength for international cricket and Dernbach and Woakes aren't good enough.
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Terrible shot Swann.
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I'd like Cook to come out with some explanation for this now, because since Giles took over we've been pretty bad in ODIs after getting to number 1 in the world. We have been atrocious today.
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100 for Trott, only player with any credit here. Quick enough too, so fair play.
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Before KP comes back the team should be -
- Cook, Trott, Bell, Root, Morgan, Bairstow, Prior, Broad, Swann, Anderson, Onions/Bresnan.
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I'd go with that XI. Trott's slow pace would me more palatable as an opener, and Bell slots in anywhere.
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Before KP comes back the team should be -
- Cook, Trott, Bell, Root, Morgan, Bairstow, Prior, Broad, Swann, Anderson, Onions/Bresnan.
Not enough bowling there, you'd need Trott and Root bowling 5 each and I don't think either is up to that.
The important thing is we need to identify 6-7 players who play every time.
For me
1. Cook
2. Bell
4. KP
5. Morgan
6. Prior
8. Broad
9. Swann
11. Anderson
So we need to:
- settle on a 3 between trott and root.
- find an all-rounder who can give some big runs in there and bowl well enough as the 5th (sharing some overs with trott/root) - maybe bresnan can fill this.
- find another frontline wicket taker. Finn is almost there anyway.
Harsh on Bairstow but effectively you're dropping Root or Trott for Morgan and dropping Bairstow for a bowler, which is needed - other than that it's the test team, and rightly so. I'm with Aftab on this, the best players are great at all forms unless they're very specialised, Morgan being the obvious example in our squad, not patient enough or technically sound enough to play in tests but a highly competent finisher in the shorter forms.
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Before KP comes back the team should be -
- Cook, Trott, Bell, Root, Morgan, Bairstow, Prior, Broad, Swann, Anderson, Onions/Bresnan.
Not enough bowling there, you'd need Trott and Root bowling 5 each and I don't think either is up to that.
The important thing is we need to identify 6-7 players who play every time.
For me
1. Cook
2. Bell
4. KP
5. Morgan
6. Prior
8. Broad
9. Swann
11. Anderson
So we need to:
- settle on a 3 between trott and root.
- find an all-rounder who can give some big runs in there and bowl well enough as the 5th (sharing some overs with trott/root) - maybe bresnan can fill this.
- find another frontline wicket taker. Finn is almost there anyway.
Harsh on Bairstow but effectively you're dropping Root or Trott for Morgan and dropping Bairstow for a bowler, which is needed - other than that it's the test team, and rightly so. I'm with Aftab on this, the best players are great at all forms unless they're very specialised, Morgan being the obvious example in our squad, not patient enough or technically sound enough to play in tests but a highly competent finisher in the shorter forms.
Trott is our best one day batsman at present - he should be one of the guaranteed starters
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I don't think you can rely on Bresnan for runs.
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England's attack as a whole has looked piss poor in all forms of cricket on flat wickets. Not that we'll get too many of those in the forthcoming Ashes series.
What we seem to lack is the ability to vary things when the pitch/conditions aren't helpful. This is true of most bowlers we could pick. Anderson with the new ball apart, it didn't seem to matter who was bowling all deliveries seemed to be of a similar speed line and length.
Finn ought to improve things but I'm not too sure about Broad who seems to pick up clutches of wickets every now and then but gets spanked around the ground fairly regularly.
Dernbach really is just too expensive. Woakes is still a developing player and should not be discarded completely. He certainly has the temperament for this level of cricket.
Interesting ODI career comparison :-
Broad - Batting ave : 12.23, Bowling Econ : 5.19
Woakes - batting : 23.5 Bowling : 5.66
The numbers aren't that significant given the relative length of their careers, but it would be a mistake to think the return of Broad will make that big a difference.
In ODIs, Woakes' lack of pace shouldn't matter. It seems to be a well accepted principle that scoring becomes more difficult when there is less pace on the ball.
He needs to learn more about the art of bowling rather than look for extra yards of speed.
Paul Collingwood was no Denis Lillee but his ODI bowling economy was 4.96
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England's attack as a whole has looked piss poor in all forms of cricket on flat wickets. Not that we'll get too many of those in the forthcoming Ashes series.
What we seem to lack is the ability to vary things when the pitch/conditions aren't helpful. This is true of most bowlers we could pick. Anderson with the new ball apart, it didn't seem to matter who was bowling all deliveries seemed to be of a similar speed line and length.
Finn ought to improve things but I'm not too sure about Broad who seems to pick up clutches of wickets every now and then but gets spanked around the ground fairly regularly.
Dernbach really is just too expensive. Woakes is still a developing player and should not be discarded completely. He certainly has the temperament for this level of cricket.
Interesting ODI career comparison :-
Broad - Batting ave : 12.23, Bowling Econ : 5.19
Woakes - batting : 23.5 Bowling : 5.66
The numbers aren't that significant given the relative length of their careers, but it would be a mistake to think the return of Broad will make that big a difference.
In ODIs, Woakes' lack of pace shouldn't matter. It seems to be a well accepted principle that scoring becomes more difficult when there is less pace on the ball.
He needs to learn more about the art of bowling rather than look for extra yards of speed.
Paul Collingwood was no Denis Lillee but his ODI bowling economy was 4.96
Broads figures are pretty misleading - he's been a much more accurate bowler in the last few years.
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Whether it's pace or the art of bowling, Woakes needs to learn something because he has looked really short of international quality with the ball. Dernbach has to go back to county cricket and work out how to bowl a stock delivery, the variation by definition should add variety not be the standard.
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Whether it's pace or the art of bowling, Woakes needs to learn something because he has looked really short of international quality with the ball. Dernbach has to go back to county cricket and work out how to bowl a stock delivery, the variation by definition should add variety not be the standard.
I agree. Dernbach seems to be a product of the 20/20 generation. Bowling dross is unacceptable across 24 balls in a 20 over thrash; bowling dross across 60 balls of an ODI is contemptible. I wouldn't pick him again. His game has not developed in any way. He needs to learn the art of building pressure by bowling dot balls which he does not do. His career economy rate is over 6; compare that with Jimmy Anderson whose career economy rate is less than 5.
Woakes needs time away from the international team, time in which to learn more about his art. That said, I'm not convinced that he is international class.
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Whether it's pace or the art of bowling, Woakes needs to learn something because he has looked really short of international quality with the ball. Dernbach has to go back to county cricket and work out how to bowl a stock delivery, the variation by definition should add variety not be the standard.
I agree. Dernbach seems to be a product of the 20/20 generation. Bowling dross is unacceptable across 24 balls in a 20 over thrash; bowling dross across 60 balls of an ODI is contemptible. I wouldn't pick him again. His game has not developed in any way. He needs to learn the art of building pressure by bowling dot balls which he does not do. His career economy rate is over 6; compare that with Jimmy Anderson whose career economy rate is less than 5.
Woakes needs time away from the international team, time in which to learn more about his art. That said, I'm not convinced that he is international class.
Comparing any other bowler in england to Jimmy is unfair, the guy is comfortably the best bowler in the country. Finn is a better comparison, he had similar stats after 10-12 matches, but Finn then improved at a much better rate.
As PaulW says above, the issue is that he doesn't have a stock delivery. He should, by now have developed the slightly fuller inswinger as his stock ball, with his slow yorker (which is the reason he gets picked, it's a beauty) as his main variation. By having the variation similar in line and length to his stock ball the slower delivery is much more likely to be mistimed, making it a yorker length just makes it tougher to play. If he can learn that control he'll get a lot of clean bowled and lbw wickets. The bggest issue is his age. He's 27 now, he should be much more reliable, he still bowls like a 20 year old.
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Off the top of my head I'd be looking at Tremlett(if he's fit), Onions, Harris or Wood as options and that's just off the top of my head.
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If Napier can bowl like that he deserves a shot, useful bat as well.
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Not too sure about Broad at all, both he and Woaks played all three ODIs in NZ - Woakes had the better returns. Broad went for nearly 6 an over.
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Broad is fine provided he's not bowling too short and he has proven Test class.
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Australia 36-6 against India.
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Australia 36-6 against India.
65 all out. India won by 243 runs.
A remarkable recovery by India this morning. 55 - 5 off 16.1 overs to 308 - 6 off 50 overs.
Only a warm up game and you are able to mix and match your batting line up from your squad but it's still a very poor performance from the Crims.
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Jamie Overton looks a good prospect as a bowler, quick and accurate.
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Australia 36-6 against India.
65 all out. India won by 243 runs.
A remarkable recovery by India this morning. 55 - 5 off 16.1 overs to 308 - 6 off 50 overs.
Only a warm up game and you are able to mix and match your batting line up from your squad but it's still a very poor performance from the Crims.
Aye, not looking to 'ripper' are they and with Clarke a doubt too....
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Glad Finn and Broad are fit, and it's also fair enough that Woakes and Dernbach are dropped. Bopara gets another opportunity.
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Apparently Dernbach is hot footing it back to Guildford to play for Surrey against the Bears!!!!
What are the rules as i know Bresnan was allowed to play for Yorkshire when he was left out first One Dayer.
Can 2 players from same county when released go and play for their county - IE Woakes and Rankin have presumably been released or are they required for Saturdays game at Edgbaston against the Aussies. Or does the rule state that only one ''substitute'' is allowed..........Woakes or Rankin????
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just said on Bears commentary that Dernbach and Rankin have been released by England and both can play in game from tomorrow - assume that Woakes then has been retained in squad for ICC Trophy.
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Sounds like Cook just used up our review in terrible fashion. Bad start.
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Absolutely no doubt that he was out - yes a waste!!!!
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A question from Radio just asked i dont currently no answer!
Which former Test Cricketer born in 1973 went to school in Guildford area won a cricket version of 'The Weakest Link' back in 2005
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Might need to up the run rate a touch.
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Ashley Giles?
Another slow start, this isn't exactly the morale boosting win we need. The Ozzies must be loving this!
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Ashley Giles?
Another slow start, this isn't exactly the morale boosting win we need. The Ozzies must be loving this!
We have no one at the top who is able to put the bowlers under pressure in the powerplay. We have good shot players up there but we could really do with a bully who punishes anything that isn't perfect. Keiswetter had time in the T20 to become that player but his technique is limited, Prior had a go but has been forgotten. There may be a case for getting KP to open but he's never looked comfortable when he's done it. It seems strange that the T20 still hasn't led to the production of that type of player for us, all the other nations seem to be getting there.
We should kidnap Gayle.
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Tedious stuff at Trent Bridge
Bell has got his 50
122 - 2 30 Overs
Bell 61 (79)
Root 23 (39)
So if double score in last 20 looking at around 240........not enough!!!
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Did someone say Buttler wasn't that good the other day?
6444.4
Not a bad over.
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Did someone say Buttler wasn't that good the other day?
6444.4
Not a bad over.
This is the time in a match when he should be coming in. Him coming on with 15 overs to go is the problem.
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A question from Radio just asked i dont currently no answer!
Which former Test Cricketer born in 1973 went to school in Guildford area won a cricket version of 'The Weakest Link' back in 2005
The answer was apparently Ashley Giles!!!
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64 scored off the final 3 overs. That's pretty violent batting and distinctly un-England!
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287.
Given the bowlers a real chance has Buttler. 47* from 16 balls.
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Perfect displaying of 'finishing' from Morgan and Buttler. 287-6 is a remarkable score considering we were 180-4 after 42.
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Good effort from Buttler and Morgan. I criticised him the other day, but that showed the value of Buttler fair play to him.
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Guptill is slaughtering Finn and Broad.
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Looking at this pitch, I have no idea why our start was so bad.
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Broad is fast becoming my Mark Kinsella. Standing there hands on hips glaring at fielders after another fruitless chase to the boundary.
There's always the option of not chucking pies you dimwit.
I'm going to enjoy the Champions Trophy. These things are always better if you have a half decent scapegoat.
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Good delivery Tredwell, Guptill gone.
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Two crucial wickets from Tredwell, first Guptill then McCullum.
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Are we gonna win this - get Taylor then no problem.....104 off 84 but 7 wkts down 184 - 7
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This just serves to prove how important momentum is in cricket, we went in the field knowing we had a good total and we've been much more dangerous. The Morgan/Bopara partnership set us going and Buttler just pushed us over the edge. After that despite NZ coming out swinging we looked confident that we were only a wicket or 2 away from being on top, as soon as guptill went we looked like winning and we've done the best possible thing in taking regular wickets.
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I may have posted that slightly too soon, as we often do England are making tail-end sloggers look better than they really are.
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and back to my earlier post.
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I may have posted that slightly too soon, as we often do England are making tail-end sloggers look better than they really are.
I was about to say the same when Finn pulls off his quick thinking to get rid of Taylor - if that had been another 6 could well have been in trouble.
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I predict NZ to be all out by the time you read this!
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A question from Radio just asked i dont currently no answer!
Which former Test Cricketer born in 1973 went to school in Guildford area won a cricket version of 'The Weakest Link' back in 2005
The answer was apparently Ashley Giles!!!
So I was right. Yay, me!
Just about held on there. At least it makes things a bit clearer for Saturday, with Anderson and Swann to return...
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Better today, but the batting line up still looks a little disjointed. Along with KP, I'd still like to see Prior in the line up, but Morgan and Buttler were impressive today.
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Better today, but the batting line up still looks a little disjointed. Along with KP, I'd still like to see Prior in the line up, but Morgan and Buttler were impressive today.
The match situation when Buttler went in was ideal for him. Only a few overs left and he was able to open his arms and swing the bat. It's almost as if when he goes in earlier he doesn't know what to do.
Yet again we approach a major international tournament and have no idea of what our best side is. Prior is probably the best wicketkeeper batsman in the world; certainly the best since Gilchrist yet he doesn't even get in the squad.
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Buttler was impressive, but if he is to be a long term option he needs to learn how to construct an innings if he comes in in say the 30th over. He has the ability to be devestating over a short period, but he needs to be able to do it over a longer period.
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Better today, but the batting line up still looks a little disjointed. Along with KP, I'd still like to see Prior in the line up, but Morgan and Buttler were impressive today.
The match situation when Buttler went in was ideal for him. Only a few overs left and he was able to open his arms and swing the bat. It's almost as if when he goes in earlier he doesn't know what to do.
Yet again we approach a major international tournament and have no idea of what our best side is. Prior is probably the best wicketkeeper batsman in the world; certainly the best since Gilchrist yet he doesn't even get in the squad.
It all comes down to the top order doing their job. We're only going to pick 1 of Buttler or Prior. If we regularly need that player to face 40-50 deliveries then Prior should start. If we can arrange it so they need to face 15-20 and can slog then Buttler is explosive and has to play.
KP coming back will help not sure who for though. If we want to go with 4 frontline bowlers to give us a fuller batting line up then we're looking for 10 overs from the top order. Root and Bopara both look capable of 5-6overs. If either of them are left out do we think Trott, Bell and KP can make up the difference, all 3 have had a few overs here and there at test level but I don't know about any of them in ODIs.
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Broad is fast becoming my Mark Kinsella. Standing there hands on hips glaring at fielders after another fruitless chase to the boundary.
There's always the option of not chucking pies you dimwit.
I'm going to enjoy the Champions Trophy. These things are always better if you have a half decent scapegoat.
Ryan Sidebottom was the best at this, he used to give Monty loads of abuse.
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India are hammering SA at the moment.
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Looks like a good game developing at Cardiff in the ICC opener
India 96- 0 15 overs
Rohit Sharma 47 (56)
Dhawan 44 (36)
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I'm not sure it'll be a good game if this continues, it'll be a massacre.
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I'm not sure it'll be a good game if this continues, it'll be a massacre.
You may be right but with players like Amla and in particular AB De Villiers in your side you never know. SA will miss Kallis.
124-0 20.3
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Just over half way through their innings:
India 164 - 1 26 overs
Dhawan 82 (63)
Kohli 8 (14)
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India 194 - 1 32 overs
Dhawan 102 (80)
Kohli 18 (33)
Dhawan looks as though he is gonna be some player - a big ton on his test debut against Aussies as well as this.
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Kleinvelt ends up with Dernbachesque figures.
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Better today, but the batting line up still looks a little disjointed. Along with KP, I'd still like to see Prior in the line up, but Morgan and Buttler were impressive today.
The match situation when Buttler went in was ideal for him. Only a few overs left and he was able to open his arms and swing the bat. It's almost as if when he goes in earlier he doesn't know what to do.
Yet again we approach a major international tournament and have no idea of what our best side is. Prior is probably the best wicketkeeper batsman in the world; certainly the best since Gilchrist yet he doesn't even get in the squad.
It all comes down to the top order doing their job. We're only going to pick 1 of Buttler or Prior. If we regularly need that player to face 40-50 deliveries then Prior should start. If we can arrange it so they need to face 15-20 and can slog then Buttler is explosive and has to play.
KP coming back will help not sure who for though. If we want to go with 4 frontline bowlers to give us a fuller batting line up then we're looking for 10 overs from the top order. Root and Bopara both look capable of 5-6overs. If either of them are left out do we think Trott, Bell and KP can make up the difference, all 3 have had a few overs here and there at test level but I don't know about any of them in ODIs.
Agree Paul. I can't remember us ever having too many players who can do what Buttler did last night on the international stage. Shame he can't bowl a bit really as he would be an ideal as an all-rounder coming in at six or seven depending on the situation. I'm still not sure about having Cook and Trott in the same ODI team and think that Root could well develop into an opener in all formats of the game.
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Better today, but the batting line up still looks a little disjointed. Along with KP, I'd still like to see Prior in the line up, but Morgan and Buttler were impressive today.
The match situation when Buttler went in was ideal for him. Only a few overs left and he was able to open his arms and swing the bat. It's almost as if when he goes in earlier he doesn't know what to do.
Yet again we approach a major international tournament and have no idea of what our best side is. Prior is probably the best wicketkeeper batsman in the world; certainly the best since Gilchrist yet he doesn't even get in the squad.
It all comes down to the top order doing their job. We're only going to pick 1 of Buttler or Prior. If we regularly need that player to face 40-50 deliveries then Prior should start. If we can arrange it so they need to face 15-20 and can slog then Buttler is explosive and has to play.
KP coming back will help not sure who for though. If we want to go with 4 frontline bowlers to give us a fuller batting line up then we're looking for 10 overs from the top order. Root and Bopara both look capable of 5-6overs. If either of them are left out do we think Trott, Bell and KP can make up the difference, all 3 have had a few overs here and there at test level but I don't know about any of them in ODIs.
Agree Paul. I can't remember us ever having too many players who can do what Buttler did last night on the international stage. Shame he can't bowl a bit really as he would be an ideal as an all-rounder coming in at six or seven depending on the situation. I'm still not sure about having Cook and Trott in the same ODI team and think that Root could well develop into an opener in all formats of the game.
I'd guess Buttler would be classed as an all rounder due to his wicketkeeping.
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India finished on 331 - 7
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Better today, but the batting line up still looks a little disjointed. Along with KP, I'd still like to see Prior in the line up, but Morgan and Buttler were impressive today.
The match situation when Buttler went in was ideal for him. Only a few overs left and he was able to open his arms and swing the bat. It's almost as if when he goes in earlier he doesn't know what to do.
Yet again we approach a major international tournament and have no idea of what our best side is. Prior is probably the best wicketkeeper batsman in the world; certainly the best since Gilchrist yet he doesn't even get in the squad.
It all comes down to the top order doing their job. We're only going to pick 1 of Buttler or Prior. If we regularly need that player to face 40-50 deliveries then Prior should start. If we can arrange it so they need to face 15-20 and can slog then Buttler is explosive and has to play.
KP coming back will help not sure who for though. If we want to go with 4 frontline bowlers to give us a fuller batting line up then we're looking for 10 overs from the top order. Root and Bopara both look capable of 5-6overs. If either of them are left out do we think Trott, Bell and KP can make up the difference, all 3 have had a few overs here and there at test level but I don't know about any of them in ODIs.
Agree Paul. I can't remember us ever having too many players who can do what Buttler did last night on the international stage. Shame he can't bowl a bit really as he would be an ideal as an all-rounder coming in at six or seven depending on the situation. I'm still not sure about having Cook and Trott in the same ODI team and think that Root could well develop into an opener in all formats of the game.
I'd guess Buttler would be classed as an all rounder due to his wicketkeeping.
Him coming in at 7 and swinging is fine if the top 6 are capable of putting in 10-15 overs with an economy around 5.5 or better. If that happens you have the options in the top order to play cook, bell, trott and root and expect 1 or 2 of them to get up near 3 figures every match, if they do that, with a strike rate of 80%+ then Morgan, Buttler, Bairstow, Bopara, etc can come on late and give 15-20ball cameos and take us from ok scores to massive scores.
Look at what Guptill and then Mccullum did in the 2nd game, that's perfect ODI batting and it took the game away from England emphatically. We were dissappointing with the ball but they got themselves into a position where the big hitter in their middle order was under no pressure to hang around and could just go for as many runs as he could get - which meant 132 from 10overs.
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Yep you need those big hitters down the order, but they also need to have the ability to build an innings if they don't come in in ideal circumstances.
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Yep you need those big hitters down the order, but they also need to have the ability to build an innings if they don't come in in ideal circumstances.
Not many players like that around though, we do have KP and Morgan who I think can do just that though.
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South Africa 13 - 1 2.1 overs
Ingram Ct Raina b Kumar
Amla 7 (8)
Peterson now in
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31 - 2 3.5
Amla ct Dhoni b Yadav 22 (15)
Peterson 3 (3)
AB De Villiers in now
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If SA keep this up they'll cruise it.
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Posters kiss of death
Petersen Run Out 68 (72)
AD de Vill 57 (55)
155 - 3 24.2 overs
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SA 253 - 8 now 9 overs left to get 79
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Massive massive innings for Compton today, 139 not out.
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2 early wickets for Windies 14 - 2 5 overs
Roach took em both
Farhat Ct Bravo b Roach 2
Harfeez B Roach 4
Windies won the toss
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15 - 3 now
Shafiq Ct Rampaul b Roach 0 (4)
6.2 overs
3 - 7 Roach
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Pakistan being routed by the Windies.
Now we all know that West Indies can bat, but it looks like they can bowl as well, get yer money on them!
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Issue just Ramdin took a catch behind off Roach and claimed it but as he rolled over ball fell out of glove spotted by square leg ump, batsman was walking off......very naughty by Ramdin he obviously never had ball under his control.....should have been fairly straight forward catch.
23 - 3 10 overs
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15 overs
40 - 3
Jamshed 21 (45)
Misbah 9 (26)
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As an aside to the ICC trophy
Worcester bowled out for 125 in 2nd innings
Northants require 8 to win.
Shame!!!
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Bristol is surprisingly dead as a wicket. Glamorgan made 448 in their first innings and the last time I looked Gloucs were 218-1.
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Green shoots of a Pakistan recovery
88 - 3 25.4 overs
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Pakistan 105 - 4 29.2 overs
Jamshed Ct Rampaul b Narine 50 (93)
Misbah 45 (65)
Jamshed got his 50 out next ball
106 - 5
Malik Ct Bravo b Narine 0 (1)
29.4 overs
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110 - 6
Kamran Akmal Ct Ramdin B Narine 2 (8)
31.5 overs
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Misbah reached 52 and with Jamsheds 50 they total 102 out of 115 - 6
Ridiculous
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Pakistan have mentally imploded.
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128 - 7 36.1
Wahab Riaz Run Out 6 (14)
Unfortunate one Misbah blasted one back at bowler, Bravo who deflects onto stumps out backing up.
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138 - 8 37.5
Ajmal Run Out 2 - This time a suicidal one
Misbah 65 not out
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139 - 9
Junaid Ct Gayle B Bravo 0
42.1 overs
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Fun quiz: of the English stadia to have hosted a Test match, which has the largest capacity?
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170 All Out 48 overs
Irfan Ct Bravo B Rampaul 2
Misbah Ul Haq 96 not out
He was dropped on 0
So he and Jamshed got 146 between them add on 6 extras means other 9 batsmen got 16 between them....
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So that's nine Pakistani players who will be richer later.
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Fun quiz: of the English stadia to have hosted a Test match, which has the largest capacity?
Is it the home of a football team currently in League One?
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Gayle looks in the mood to have a go here. Should be a good contest between him and the Pakistani quicks.
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Better today, but the batting line up still looks a little disjointed. Along with KP, I'd still like to see Prior in the line up, but Morgan and Buttler were impressive today.
The match situation when Buttler went in was ideal for him. Only a few overs left and he was able to open his arms and swing the bat. It's almost as if when he goes in earlier he doesn't know what to do.
Yet again we approach a major international tournament and have no idea of what our best side is. Prior is probably the best wicketkeeper batsman in the world; certainly the best since Gilchrist yet he doesn't even get in the squad.
It all comes down to the top order doing their job. We're only going to pick 1 of Buttler or Prior. If we regularly need that player to face 40-50 deliveries then Prior should start. If we can arrange it so they need to face 15-20 and can slog then Buttler is explosive and has to play.
KP coming back will help not sure who for though. If we want to go with 4 frontline bowlers to give us a fuller batting line up then we're looking for 10 overs from the top order. Root and Bopara both look capable of 5-6overs. If either of them are left out do we think Trott, Bell and KP can make up the difference, all 3 have had a few overs here and there at test level but I don't know about any of them in ODIs.
Agree Paul. I can't remember us ever having too many players who can do what Buttler did last night on the international stage. Shame he can't bowl a bit really as he would be an ideal as an all-rounder coming in at six or seven depending on the situation. I'm still not sure about having Cook and Trott in the same ODI team and think that Root could well develop into an opener in all formats of the game.
I'd guess Buttler would be classed as an all rounder due to his wicketkeeping.
True Paul, but if he were a bowling allrounder we could probably fit Prior into the side as well. As it is, I think we are probably better going forward with Buttler as wicketkeeper at this point. The only question I would have at the moment is whether we go with Bresnan as a bowler who can bat a bit or Bopara as a batsman who can bowl a bit.
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Fun quiz: of the English stadia to have hosted a Test match, which has the largest capacity?
Is it the home of a football team currently in League One?
It might be...
;-)
-
Fun quiz: of the English stadia to have hosted a Test match, which has the largest capacity?
Is it the home of a football team currently in League One?
It might be...
;-)
And didn't host another test because nobody turned up to watch.
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This game is very interesting now.
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Finn dropped and Swann injured. That's really concerning about Swann.
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It's back rather than elbow for Swann which is good though, not a recurrence.
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Australia no spinner, odd.
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Good start, but I'm surprised we haven't played Finn.
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Good start, but I'm surprised we haven't played Finn.
Yes i agree dont understand it myself 3rd ranked in the world and he's left out.
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Cook gets a start and out again, he really needs to address this.
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Need to get this run rate up, this pitch is really good.
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Dont think any need to worry just yet as long as Trott steps up his rate later in his innings.....as long as he stays in. Would love to see this pair really dominate the Aussie attack.
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We need 300 + I think.
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Bell's in now, he has to go on.
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We do need to get a move on here.
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I really think 300 + is required on this pitch and we're getting bogged down.
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Come on Belly, we can't let Voges get on top of us.
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Accelerate please England.
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Bears duo going a bit too slowly here. Could really do with KP at 3 in ODIs.
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Both Bell and Trott are playing the anchor role. One of them needs to sacrifice their natural game a bit and play a few shots.
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We have to speed up and if we don't win this game, we'll have to look at the top 3.
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Bell SR bottom 70's throughout his innings which isnt bad but agree should step it up.
Trott only mid 50's so he certainly needs to step up
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We have to speed it up as a team, this isn't anywhere near dynamic enough and with the number of wickets we have left we should be dominating.
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This is the problematic innings Trott has, he needs to up his run rate a lot here or he won't catch up.
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I wouldn't worry about the rate for now. I expect a score close to 300.
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We can't always rely on an end of innings smash, so these middle overs need addressing.
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Trott needs to get moving or get out.
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Trott needs to stay as Bell is going to be out fairly soon. Like to see Trott tie up one end whilst the hitters come in.
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We need at least 300 on this pitch I think.
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Trott isn't a one day batsman and shouldn't be in the team
He brings nothing to the side apart from hanging around using up a lot of overs for very few runs, there is no point to him playing in limited overs cricket
-
Don't agree on Trott. He is a world class batsman and should always play regardless of the format.
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Clearly not twenty20.
-
Yeh ok 20/20 is gambling not cricket!
-
Trott gone, now it's time to speed up.
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He is a great test batsman,
but he is no way a one day batsman in the modern game, the day of pace makers has gone the old tie one end down while the other end make the runs can be used later on in an innings if things are going badly, but not as a start tactic
England can keep on with this old fashioned way of ODI's but they won't win this competition, because when it comes down to it we don't play enough power players
-
Hmm Root in, not very flexible. He can play shots, but Morgan would be a better option now.
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Trott gone, now it's time to speed up.
Aussies won't be happy about that
-
Our biggest problem is that we lack flexibility and don't seem aggressive enough.
-
With a new ball being used at either end the days of the pinch hitter opening the batting are now over and you need a more circumspect approach in early overs and Trott at 3 suits the England establishment perfectly. Todays score may not reach 300 but you can bet your life that it will not be far away.
Trotts SR ended up at 77 by end of his innings and would have improved had he stayed there.
Root has to get his game together right away but we know he is well capable.
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We have 15 overs left and we could do with doubling the score,
good pitch perfect weather we won't do it where as other teams wil
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With a new ball being used at either end the days of the pinch hitter opening the batting are now over and you need a more circumspect approach in early overs and Trott at 3 suits the England establishment perfectly. Todays score may not reach 300 but you can bet your life that it will not be far away.
Trotts SR ended up at 77 by end of his innings and would have improved had he stayed there.
Root has to get his game together right away but we know he is well capable.
But that's exactly the point, he got out and he used up a lot of balls for his runs. Trott's place can only be justified if he gets a big score and catches up.
-
We really really need to go now.
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Lets face it he aint gonna get 80 or 90 every innings, he has played to his average today and got 43. Trotts run rate will always be under scrutiny by the general public such as you and i, my feet are firmly entrenched in the' in the team' camp. KP is not available so we have to get on with it.
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Bell gone, well played but now we need to move.
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Joe Root out. See this is the problem, we were too stodgy and there's too much pressure on those coming in.
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We just cant bat in Batting powerplays - 2 wkts gone in it already!!
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Slow run rate through the middle results in a lot of pressure on those coming in at the end, terrible tactically. We may get out of it, but we've made a mess of this.
-
Our game plan looks badly flawed and outdated.
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If you can't get 300 runs when you win the toss and bat first on a perfect pitch in perfect weather with wickets in hand then there is something wrong with your tactics and team selection,
it's as simple as that
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This is a massive ten overs now, we need to go at over 10 an over.
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Getting quick runs in last 10 overs is great, but you shouldn't be relying on it. Why can't we learn? you can't just let the game drift.
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Our top 3 has to change, we put far too much emphasis on last 10.
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England have taken 20 balls too many to get to 200.
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Morgan gone and there you go, can't rely on last 10. Shocking shocking tactics from Giles and Cook, sort it out.
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Buttler gone, and there you go. What a shameful performance and I blame the tactics, awful. Maybe this will teaching our tacticians you can't rely on your middle order to dig you out of trouble at the end of the innings every time.
-
Poor shots by Buttler and Morgan
-
Poor shots by Buttler and Morgan
All brought on by the situation they were put into it. This is what we've done in every single 50 over competition we've failed in, try and score all your runs at the end. When will they fucking learn.
-
Giles has done a pretty poor job since he came in as coach for ODIs and Cook is far too conservative and needs to learn fast.
-
Buttler out playing a forward defensive how is that about the situation. If he had been caught flailing at a wide one or cross batted a straight ball then maybe.Agreed situation has deteriated badly but this isnt all to be heaped on the shoulders of the top 3. Still only Buttlers 10th game so got a lot to learn and his future will be based on his results out in the middle.
We havent lost this game yet dont forget!!!
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We will need a remarkable bowling display to win this now. It is very very clear our batting line up does not work, we cannot have that top 3 scoring at the rate it did. It clearly heaped pressure on the middle order and they collapsed under it.
-
Everyone can see that England target 270/280 and it is criminally out of date. Our mindset is in the wrong decade. We might win this game, but even then we've dropped Finn who is 3rd in ODI rankings and we don't have Swann.
-
Poor shots by Buttler and Morgan
All brought on by the situation they were put into it. This is what we've done in every single 50 over competition we've failed in, try and score all your runs at the end. When will they fucking learn.
This really is like a replay of the last tournament we bombed out of. These tactics are never going to win the minimum 5 out of 6 required to take the cup.
Puddled thinking.
-
Poor shots by Buttler and Morgan
All brought on by the situation they were put into it. This is what we've done in every single 50 over competition we've failed in, try and score all your runs at the end. When will they fucking learn.
This really is like a replay of the last tournament we bombed out of. These tactics are never going to win the minimum 5 out of 6 required to take the cup.
Puddled thinking.
Yep our tactics are completely outdated and it's astonishing considering the amount of analysis that gets done. I repeat our top 3 isn't up too task in this format.
-
Bopara at least giving it a go.
-
Bopara is the batsman who comes out with most credit here, he's actually tried to score and also run with adequate urgency.
-
On that flat pitch the lethargy at the top of the order is criminal.
Still might win though.
-
We might win this game, but we need a complete change in philosophy if we're ever going to compete in 50 over competitions. Our top 3 in their current format and approach are not doing the job.
-
Poor shots by Buttler and Morgan
All brought on by the situation they were put into it. This is what we've done in every single 50 over competition we've failed in, try and score all your runs at the end. When will they fucking learn.
This really is like a replay of the last tournament we bombed out of. These tactics are never going to win the minimum 5 out of 6 required to take the cup.
Puddled thinking.
Yep our tactics are completely outdated and it's astonishing considering the amount of analysis that gets done. I repeat our top 3 isn't up too task in this format.
Agree Paul. Need 2 of those 3 opening and then a more positive option at 3. KP is the obvious option, but I think Prior could do a job there as well. The King of Spain needs to take his share of the blame as it is obvious they are playing to instruction.
-
Giles is massively to blame as well, I agree.
-
This pitch is flat, I think we might struggle to knock them over.
-
Warner gone, important. We need to rip through them now.
-
Bowlers keeping it very tight, good start but the change bowlers need to keep it up.
-
Bresnan has come on and the pressure is already lifting, he needs to be better than his first 3 balls.
-
Tredwell bowling very well, and Bres gets Watson. Well done.
-
We're bowling very well here.
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Will the Aussie top 3 get the same sort of castigation as ours did by all and sundry including messrs Botham & Knight. I was just comparing Strike Rates of both top orders:
Warner 9 off 21 SR 43
Watson 24 off 40 SR 60
Hughes 14 off 34 SR 45
Englands being Cook SR 71
Bell SR 79
Trott SR 77
They certainly stand up in the context of this game currently. Someone may well come in and blast 100 off 75 to win the game but unlikely.
-
We're bowling very well, Tredwell has been excellent.
-
If we have a problem it will likely come with our 10 overs from the Bopara / Root combination.
-
Bopara is a handy bowler, I reckon he'll be good on this pitch. Root is also useful.
-
Thats one out the way - just 3 from it.
-
Right Ravi keep up the pressure.
-
Australia are going after Bopara now.
-
I think we might need a wicket here, can't let it drift.
-
I think we will win comfortably from here.
-
Root gets Hughes, fine bowling.
-
Batting power play jinx strikes again!!!
-
We have bowled brilliantly as a unit.
-
I think we will win comfortably from here.
At 134 - 5 i would hope so.....i have an urgent need of some Thatchers 'apple juice'. Can i leave TV screen now?
-
Another wicket, brilliant bowling display. We do need to address the batting and be more flexible, but the bowlers have been excellent.
-
Never in doubt !
-
I reckon we are watching the two weakest teams in the competition here, neither capable of hitting 300 runs, and England relying on the bowlers to heavily
-
Can't agree with that. I think England have the best bowling unit
-
I think England will reach the semis at least - i expect to beat New Zealand and Sri Lanka and win the group.
-
I think it might not be as easy a pitch as we thought, but the batting still needs to have more intensity. The bowlers - brilliant.
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Thatchers Gold has won the day i'm off to pub at 175 - 8 no way back...great bowling performance and as the game has turned out a great performance by Englands top of the order, setting a pace that Australia could never cope with due to our superior attack!!!!
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It was never a 'great' performance by our top order. It was ok, but they have to have a lot more intensity and better sides would have been a much bigger threat. The bowlers fortunately have been excellently.
-
I love listening to Bumble commentate, top man.
-
Pieterson is the big hitter we are missing - we have a good side but he is the crown jewel.
-
That was an excellent day's entertainment, even if I have got a bit burned!
-
Always a pleasure to beat the Crims!
-
Always a pleasure to beat the Crims!
This
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It was never a 'great' performance by our top order. It was ok, but they have to have a lot more intensity and better sides would have been a much bigger threat. The bowlers fortunately have been excellently.
Yep, agree with that Paul. We got away with one today and I hope a few lessons have been learnt along the way.
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I've only seen highlights but any game where the 2 main seamers get 4 for 65 from their 20 overs should end in a victory. Jimmy will get a lot of credit for his 3 wickets but Broad has been very important to the result today, and then the others backed them up reasonably well. Swann back to give us a bit more threat and I think the side is pretty close. Bell seems to have found some form in the last few games.
Regarding the scoring rate it is a bit low from the top order but Edgbaston isn't a massively high scoring ground anyway, the pitch always rewards good bowling so to finish with a team wide rate of just under 5.5 an over is probably par. They need to play the conditions, when i get frustrated is when the pitch is dead and they still won't accelerate.
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I hope Swann's back problem isn't a long term thing. I think he will be massive for us this summer. Some of the comments coming out of the England camp suggest that they've asked for dry pitches for the Ashes. This will help Swann and also make the ball reverse very early on. Bell said that he'd never known a drier Edgbaston square and they don't stage a test this summer.
The Aussies were mesmerised by the reverse swing yesterday. Watson said that the ball started to reverse after about 2 overs. They couldn't cope with it in 2009, it seems that they still can't. Their bowlers struggle to bowl reverse deliveries too.
-
Had a fine day at Edgbaston yesterday.
The "flat pitch" you were all going on about yesterday wasn't flat, The Aussies have a particularly poor bowling unit at the moment but they were moving it about and even getting reverse swing at times, England showed it up for what it was, a good pitch offering something to pace and spin alike. From my side-on view it even seemed to hold up at times meaning the Aussies were often early into their shots.
Like you, most of us at the game were bemused as to why Morgan and Buttler weren't promoted up the order but it seems that England are going to stick to their plans no matter what, and during a tournament is no time to experiment I suppose, we needed to use the series against NZ to look at possible batting line-ups. Get used to it!
Anyway, it's all about The Ashes, and if Cook, Bell and Trott can bat themselves into great form for that then I'll live with mediocre ODIs!
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The "flat pitch" you were all going on about yesterday wasn't flat
Didn't looks flat on the highlights I watched, it was a near perfect pitch as far as I'm concerned, gave the bowlers enough without being a minefield for the batsmen, all English pitches should be like that.
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You are right dave , the ashes is the main course - ive always loved test match cricket , the one dayers serve their purpose but test cricket is just pure theatre.
-
Some poor decisions from the umpires today.
-
had enough of SL appeals!
-
had enough of SL appeals!
They are called 'the chuckers' round these parts.
-
do you mean rhymes with slinga?
-
Really bad decisions.
-
do you mean rhymes with slinga?
And their so called former spinner.
-
pleased with that result!
-
South Africa batting at Edgbaston - steady start but settling in nicely
43 - 0 12 overs
-
53 - 1
Ingram LBW Hafeez 20 (45)
Amla 31 (41)
Du Plessis in now
14.2 overs
-
They have some top class bowlers, but Pakistan have had a pretty average batting line up for some time now, especially when they are up against it.
-
That's a little disappointing looking forward to him smashing everything round the Oval.
Chris Gayle out ct Aswin b Kumar 21
25 - 1 5 overs
-
West Indies 103 - 2 19.5 overs
Charles LBW Jadeja 60 (55)
Darren Bravo 19 (46)
Samuels the man in
-
105 - 3 22 Overs
Samuels LBW Jadeja 1 (8)
Sarwan in now
-
Falling apart
West Indies now 109 - 4 24 overs
Sarwan Ct Dhoni b Jadeja 1 (6)
Bravo 23 (56)
Dwayne Bravo in now
-
140/5
Darren Bravo St Dhoni b Ashwin 35 (83)
Dwayne Bravo 19 (29)
Pollard in now
33.1 Overs
-
Oh well Pollard in, should be exciting....
-
163/6 37.5 overs
DJ Bravo ct Jadeja b Yadav 25 (40)
Pollard 17 (17)
Just hit the longest 6 of the tournament so far 96m
Sammy come in to join him
-
171/7 42.1
Pollard Ct Kumar b Sharma 22 (32)
Sammy 3 (11)
Narine in
-
179/8 43.4
Narine Ct Karthik b Jadeja 2 (8)
Sammy 4 (12)
Rampaul in now.
Probably wont bat the full 50!
-
182/9 45.3
Rampaul b Jadeja 2 (7)
Sammy 5 (16)
Jadeja 8 2 15 5
-
Well they managed to bat it out, Sammy going barmy at the end....beat Gayle's 6 with a 98m one.
233 - 9
Sammy 56 (35)
Roach 0(8)
One County div 1 game going on at Lords Middx v Yorks
Yorks 77 - 2
Rain Stopped play
-
Turned it into a defendable score anyway.
-
Turned it into a defendable score anyway.
I hope they get the chance to defend it!!!!
Raining at Lords this game at Oval.
Darren Sammy was superb though smashing 21 off Ishant Sharma in the 49th over
-
India started really well.
48 - 0 7 overs
Sharma 27 (25)
Dhawan 20 (17)
-
India really well on top
87- 0 13.3 overs
Sharma 40 (47)
Dhawan 45 (35)
-
101/1 15.3 Overs
Rohit Sharm Ct Charles b Narine 52 (56)
Dhawan 47 (13)
Kohli in
-
Going to watch Warwickshire 2nd XI at West Brom Dartmouth tomorrow if the weather holds. Nice to be able to walk to a game and have The Vine for a nice curry supper afterwards.
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Going to watch Warwickshire 2nd XI at West Brom Dartmouth tomorrow if the weather holds. Nice to be able to walk to a game and have The Vine for a nice curry supper afterwards.
Is that the game against Lancs 2nds which was originally scheduled for Edgbaston, i wondered where they had moved it to.
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Okay who was out in Brum last night ?
Tweet from Cricket Australia this morning saying they are "aware of reports regarding an incident involving David Warner in England and are investigating / will comment further soon"
-
According to BBC Sport web site Warner attacked Joe Root a few hours after the game last Saturday. He has been dropped for todays game v New Zealand while investigation goes on.
-
Warner comes across as a complete tool.
-
Going to watch Warwickshire 2nd XI at West Brom Dartmouth tomorrow if the weather holds. Nice to be able to walk to a game and have The Vine for a nice curry supper afterwards.
Is that the game against Lancs 2nds which was originally scheduled for Edgbaston, i wondered where they had moved it to.
Yep, that's the one.
-
Australia won toss and batted v NZ
5-1 1.3 overs
Watson ct Ronchi b McClenaghan 5 (7)
Wade 0 (2)
Phil Hughes man in.
-
Oh Dear
10-2 3.1 Overs
Hughes Run Out 0 (4)
Wade 1 (8)
Bailey man in.
-
According to BBC Sport web site Warner attacked Joe Root a few hours after the game last Saturday. He has been dropped for todays game v New Zealand while investigation goes on.
No choice but to send him home to Australia in disgrace - the Aussies really are a mess on and off the pitch.
-
Aussies 50 - 2 12.2
Bailey 20 (24)
Wade 19 (40)
-
74 - 3 19 overs
Wade LBW N McCallum 29 (57)
Bailey 33 (47)
Vosges new man in
For interest in previous ICC trophy clashes between these 2 it's 4 - 0 to Aussies. Time for a change!
-
Very brave of Warner, picking on Joe Root who is built like a 12 year old.
-
Shame Boyd Rankin wasnt still with England squad just to give Joe Root a little back up.
Aussies 142/3 42.2 overs
Vosges 46 (48)
Bailey 52 (81)
-
151 - 4 35 overs
Bailey b N. McCallum 55 (91)
Vosges 50 (53)
Maxwell in now
-
According to BBC Sport web site Warner attacked Joe Root a few hours after the game last Saturday. He has been dropped for todays game v New Zealand while investigation goes on.
No choice but to send him home to Australia in disgrace - the Aussies really are a mess on and off the pitch.
Pretty much as I see it. I wonder when the "recall Warnie" campaign will start?
-
Shame Boyd Rankin wasnt still with England squad just to give Joe Root a little back up.
Aussies 142/3 42.2 overs
Vosges 46 (48)
Bailey 52 (81)
or Chris Tremlett.....
-
They will probably start the campaign for the return of Ricky first!!!
-
New Zealand set a target of 244 to beat Australia.
Australia were 243/8
-
They will probably start the campaign for the return of Ricky first!!!
He has said he 'open' minded if he was asked.If they lose the first 2 tests I can see it happening.
-
According to BBC Sport web site Warner attacked Joe Root a few hours after the game last Saturday. He has been dropped for todays game v New Zealand while investigation goes on.
No choice but to send him home to Australia in disgrace - the Aussies really are a mess on and off the pitch.
Happened in Walkabout bar on Broad Street at 2am. My main question about the incident is why were international sports stars out on Broad Street?
-
Went down today. If it wasnt for the numerous school parties there would have been a very low crowd indeed.
Shocked to find the price of a pint was £4!
Impressed with George Bailey he looked the part.
-
Aview from the other side
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/warner-in-hot-water-for-swing-at-rival-20130612-2o431.html
-
Shame Boyd Rankin wasnt still with England squad just to give Joe Root a little back up.
Aussies 142/3 42.2 overs
Vosges 46 (48)
Bailey 52 (81)
[/quote]151 - 4 35 overs
Bailey b N. McCallum 55 (91)
Vosges 50 (53)
Maxwell in now
What was going on at Edgbaston today?
-
Went down today. If it wasnt for the numerous school parties there would have been a very low crowd indeed.
Shocked to find the price of a pint was £4!
Edgbaston is sold out for Saturday but they won't be selling many pints at any price!
-
Went down today. If it wasnt for the numerous school parties there would have been a very low crowd indeed.
Shocked to find the price of a pint was £4!
Impressed with George Bailey he looked the part.
The last time I went to a pub here I paid £9ish for 400ml, I'd be sloshed in a hour for £4 a pint, you don't know how lucky you are!!
-
According to BBC Sport web site Warner attacked Joe Root a few hours after the game last Saturday. He has been dropped for todays game v New Zealand while investigation goes on.
No choice but to send him home to Australia in disgrace - the Aussies really are a mess on and off the pitch.
Happened in Walkabout bar on Broad Street at 2am. My main question about the incident is why were international sports stars out on Broad Street?
International cricketers are often seen out and about in bars and clubs. I've seen the England squad in bars around Brum on many occasions. International cricketers are much more accessible than their football counterparts.
What I really like about this situation is how Warner has picked on the youngest/smallest/slightest member of the squad. It will really stoke up the sledging fires ahead of the Ashes!!
-
Pity Botham wasnt there. Even at his advanced age he would have dispatched Warner through the front windows, across Broad Street,and into the water opposite!
-
from the BBC...
Australia batsman David Warner has been suspended up until the First Test of The Ashes , Cricket Australia (CA) announces.
A CA statement says: "At a hearing, Warner pleaded guilty to breaching Rule 6: Unbecoming Behaviour. CA Senior Code of Behaviour Commissioner, The Hon. Justice Gordon Lewis AM, fined $11,500 and suspended from the remainder of Australia's ICC Champions Trophy campaign as well as the Australian team's two tour matches before the first Ashes Test against Somerset and Worcestershire.
"Warner will be eligible for selection for the first Test."
still available for the 1st test vs England.......Convicts struggling methinks..
-
First 12 balls, 11 dots. Excellent Test batting in a ODI.
-
33 dot balls from the first seven overs!
-
Majority of which being off Malinga proving practically unplayable 2 maidens in his first 4 overs. No use in giving him 3 wickets early doors.
Latest now 31 - 0 8.4 overs
Bell 12 (28)
Cook 10 (24)
-
Majority of which being off Malinga proving practically unplayable 2 maidens in his first 4 overs. No use in giving him 3 wickets early doors.
Latest now 31 - 0 8.4 overs
Bell 12 (28)
Cook 10 (24)
Absolutely, you have to play the situation. Malinga is probably the hardest bowler to score safe runs from in the competition, his angles are just so unusual. See off his spell with all 10 in hand and then try to accelerate things along once he's out the way for a bit.
-
48 - 1 11.2
Bell Ct Perera b Eranga 20 (37)
Clarke 8 (5)
-
On the BBC live feed there are a lot of complaints about the slow run rate (and 1 here as well) this is the snowball effect of the slow scoring in the tests. That performance by trott and compton put the run rate in the public, and now it's something people are going to use to beat the team with. That's why we needed to be positive when we were in such a strong position.
-
21 Overs gone:
England 91/1
Cook 36 (61)
Trott 20 (25)
-
The chuckers are back.
-
Cooks 50
England 109 - 1 24 Overs
Cook 50 (72) SR 69
Trott 28 (35) SR 80
-
England 131 - 2
Cook LBW Herath 59 (85) SR69
Trott 41 (49) SR84
-
Trott 50
England 159 - 2 33.4 overs
Trott 50 (63) SR79
Root 19 (17) SR 111
-
Going ok, now's the time to put the foot down/
-
200 / 2 39.4 overs
Trott 70 (82) SR85
Root 39 (35) SR111
280-290 on here
-
For once (and I hope I don't jinx things) England's tactics appear to be working. A solid start and then kick on without losing wickets.
-
218 - 3
Trott LBW 76 (87) SR87
Root 50 (43) SR116
42 overs
Morgan in
-
For once (and I hope I don't jinx things) England's tactics appear to be working. A solid start and then kick on without losing wickets.
Posters curse - damn you!!!
225 - 3 43 overs
-
5 overs left
244 - 3
Root 68 (54)
Morgan 8 (7)
-
249 - 5
Root ct Jayarwardne b Malinga 68 (55)
Morgan 13 (9) LBW Malinga
45.4 overs
Buttler in
-
Massively hit the skids here. Could do with a couple of good overs.
-
Buttler Bowled 1st ball 252 - 6 47.1
aint gonna get 290 now
-
For once (and I hope I don't jinx things) England's tactics appear to be working. A solid start and then kick on without losing wickets.
That's possibly the greatest mockers of all time.
-
Bopara last over 646426
293 - 7
Fantastic from Bopara 33 (13)
Broad 7 (4)
-
Bopara last over 646426
293 - 7
Fantastic from Bopara 33 (13)
Broad 7 (4)
Isnt that Mandela's prison nunber?
-
Truly brilliant batting in the last over from Ravi.
293 looks a very very big score on this pitch.
-
For once (and I hope I don't jinx things) England's tactics appear to be working. A solid start and then kick on without losing wickets.
That's possibly the greatest mockers of all time.
Nah I had faith in Bopara (embarrassed winky thing)
-
Bopara proved me wrong against the Aussies on Saturday, put in a great innings.
294 to win, so a good score by England.
-
That could put Ravi back in the forefront, brilliant innings. We do need a wicket or two.
-
This game aint won SL 98=1 19.4 overs
-
102/2 20.5
dilshan 44 (56) ct Root b Swann
Sangakarra 49 (58)
-
Ravi bowling nicely as well. If he can perform like this, then he has a role in this team.
-
We are really struggling now, we need wickets.
-
180/2 34 overs. At the end of the next over the Batting Power Play for 5 overs. We'll know more after that methinks!
-
The curse of the batting power play strikes again!
Jayawardene ct Bairstow b Anderson 42 (43)
Second ball of the powerplay 35.2 overs
187-3
-
Massive wicket, he looked like he was going to post a big score.
-
Looking very ominous her 9 overs to go and Anderson has only 1 left.
230 - 3 41.1
Only just over 7 per over but 7 wkts in hand
-
Just goes to show that the better teams aren't at all fazed by scores around 300 or less. The way England bat they're more or less giving themselves no chance of hitting 320 and up.
Roll on the Ashes.
-
Brilliant effort from Bopara and Root today, and to an extent Trott. However this game shows why we can't adopt this brand of cricket, we have to attack in the middle overs like Sri Lanka did. We must learn this lesson now, because it's clear conservative cricket won't win the day. Well played the Sri Lankans and now it's must win against NZ. We have to be aggressive.
-
England will beat the Kiwi's on Sunday. Today they had no answer for real world class display from Sangakarra. However India and Sri Lanka look a step above other teams in this tournament.
-
Well I disagree on that, NZ didn't look a step below Sri Lanka the other day. In any case if England hope to win we have to place more risk based cricket and gamble.
-
If we can't change our approach we will never progress. We absolutely must be more aggressive in the middle overs.
-
I'm not sure I agree.
I think 290 is fine on a pitch like the oval, but you have to apply pressure to batsmen.
Where we needed some aggression was in the field. We always have all the 'close' fielders pushed to the edge of the circle which means we give away a lot of singles. If you let a team like sri lanka milk you for 4-5 singles a over with no risk for 25 overs (with the odd bad ball being sent to the rope to get the average up over 5) they've going to beat you. We needed to spend the first 25 putting them under pressure and trying to get wickets, which means get some catchers in place, block the singles and invite them to hit the ball over the fielders.
Australia at their best were really aggressive in the field, and the current New Zealand team do the same by stopping the singles.
Sangakara, for example, the plan was clearly to bowl wide on his offside, from jimmy and bres particularly. So why not have a slip, a short point and a short cover all in catching positions but also blocking singles. You can still have 3 on the leg side, a third man and a couple sweeping the on side boundary to offer some protection if he'd gone aerial.
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England will beat the Kiwi's on Sunday. Today they had no answer for real world class display from Sangakarra. However India and Sri Lanka look a step above other teams in this tournament.
Don't underestimate NZ. They've just won a one day series against England, beaten Sri Lanka and would have beaten Aus as well. Dan Vettori is playing again and that only makes them stronger. England will have to play well to beat NZ.
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Since we are playing 7 batsmen we should be getting bigger totals, as it should allow our batsmen higher up to take risks. It's necessary to get a big score as well, because we need to make up 10 overs of our bowling with part timers.
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Paul I always thought test matches were won by batsmen and 1 dayers by bowlers. So I dont see why England need to play 7 batsmen. Surely 6 should be good enough for 50 overs and that gives better bowling options? You have to have the bowling firpower to defend reasonable totals.
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It depends how much you trust Root and Bopara to consistently deliver 10 decent overs between them. I think both and decent part timers but again, I think our conservative fielding means we aren't getting the potential benefit from them. Where part timers get wickets is generally that teams 'go after' them. We should encourage that and get catchers in place, let the batsman have a gamble. Root/Bopara going for 7-8 an over should be the end of the world, but if they can get a couple of cheap wickets because the batsmen are trying to go big then their value becomes huge.
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Paul I always thought test matches were won by batsmen and 1 dayers by bowlers. So I dont see why England need to play 7 batsmen. Surely 6 should be good enough for 50 overs and that gives better bowling options? You have to have the bowling firpower to defend reasonable totals.
I agree, and I'm not sure Morgan justifies his place at the moment.
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Also we can't afford to have Buttler getting one good innings in every 10.
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Weather forecast is bad for the NZ game, what a surprise in Cardiff. We could be gone.
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293 was a very competitive score - we bowled poorly and got what we deserved.
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Yes it was and England didn't have enough in the bowling department to win the game. It was poor bowling but the selection meant skipper had no alternatives.
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Essex were today all out for just 20.
Now thats bad.
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I'm not sure the bowling was that bad (bar a couple of poor overs), I think it was tactical decision that cost us more than anything else. We need to force the game more than we have done yesterday, you can't contain and hope for inspiration/errors all the time, the captain needs to try to make things happen by being more aggressive in the field, particularly whilst we have runs to play with.
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Essex were today all out for just 20.
Now thats bad.
Essex were today all out for just 20.
Now thats bad.
Essex were today all out for just 20.
Now thats bad.
Including 4 boundaries as well!
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Yorkshire top of the Championship. Just wanted to type that.
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Well SA's innings has shown that if the weather holds on Sunday, we're going to need a lot more than our normal 280 odd.
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Cardiff should be dropped as an international venue.
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Oh dear Kieron I think you've cost the Windies the chance of progressing.
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Cardiff should be dropped as an international venue.
It's one purely for political reason, as a ground it's poor and it has more rain delays than anywhere else I can think of, the english and welsh cricket board having no concern for welsh cricket wouldn't go down well.
I have a bigger problem with Lord's and the Oval being guaranteed tests every year and all the other international venues having a bit of a lottery as to whether they're going to get the income each year. The best games are generally at Edgbaston, Old Trafford and Headingley, but you normally only get games at 2 out of the 3 in a summer.
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Cardiff should be dropped as an international venue.
And Southampton and Durham. Keep matches in Lords, Oval, Edgbaston, Trent Bridge and Headingly.
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Yorkshire top of the Championship. Just wanted to type that.
Enjoy whilst its there. Bears will be there soon and will stay there! Only 49 points to make up.
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Off to Edgbaston today for the masala war. Unique situation as this is the only place in the world where a India/Pakistan game will have a 50/50 split crowd with full ground. I do expect some trouble amongst supporters especially the young hotheads.
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Have they agreed the result in advance like their World Cup encounter?
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Good start from England, just hope the weather holds. Worrying that Swann is injured again.
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Jinxed that, Bell gone. Right Trott you don't have time to mess about here.
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Hmm Trott out, they need to make sure they keep wickets here.
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Hmmm getting a bit bogged down, but not sure how much is the pitch.
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Need to get a move on.
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Root gone, good knock. Now Morgan it's about time you performed.
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Cardiff should be dropped as an international venue.
And Southampton and Durham. Keep matches in Lords, Oval, Edgbaston, Trent Bridge and Headingly.
The Rose Bowl is the joint-second biggest ground in the country, along with Edgbaston. It deserves its place in Test cricket.
Durham, Leeds and Cardiff should be told get to 20,000 or lose international matches. It is absolutely ludicrous that Edgbaston doesn't have an Ashes Test and London gets a guaranteed two Tests every series. I suppose we have got a few Champions Trophy games including the Final by way of consolation.
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Raining hard just a few miles from Cardiff and heading that way - our batting will be in vain and it will be abandoned match.
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Nathan McCullum has just dropped the semi final spot!
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Nathan McCullum has just dropped the semi final spot!
They are home and dry affers, no result game here ;)
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Bit premature, we need 200 here. Need to put our foot on the accelerator now.
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Cook is doing brilliantly here, Morgan needs to step up.
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Stopped watching pwa, once the forecast was relayed to be and incoming heavy rain i decided to avert my attention elsewhere:(
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There's always hope.
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Not great from Morgan again.
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Buttler gone.
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I am enjoying this, hope wer can get a result.
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Nathan McCullum has just dropped the semi final spot!
They are home and dry affers, no result game here ;)
Yes rain will suit Kiwis. Need over 182.5 from England to will my bet!
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Wheels have fallen off at the end, we really need 180 and to bowl very well. NZ have some massive hitters.
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Looks like we'll be 10-15 short of a good score
Bowlers have to turn up today.
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Stopped watching pwa, once the forecast was relayed to be and incoming heavy rain i decided to avert my attention elsewhere:(
Don't tell me your lapdancer neighbour is sun bathing again?
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That running was embarrassing from Bresnan. It should have been 2 without the fumble.
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Wheels have really fallen off, Morgan must be very close to being dropped.
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This has been a really poor middle/lower order effort.
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This tactic of keeping wickets in hand for the last few overs looks a bit shit when the players coming in later continually fail
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I really think Morgan and Buttler in the middle order is not good enough, they are not getting runs on anywhere near a consistent enough basis.
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England don't seem to have a clue how to post a decent one day score, absolute rubbish
The only way we can win this is by taking wickets,
over to the bowlers, again
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Shocking, shocking last 6 overs. Terrible and now we need to bowl very very well.
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Thats a horrific collapse. Not to bat the overs is mystifying.
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It was appalling and I'm sorry but the 'hitters' in the middle order fail far too much. Morgan and Buttler hardly ever turn up, dreadful. Bowlers need to turn up now and we need to bowl them out.
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Stopped watching pwa, once the forecast was relayed to be and incoming heavy rain i decided to avert my attention elsewhere:(
Don't tell me your lapdancer neighbour is sun bathing again?
Indeed she is , though those bloody tassles are a tad annoying :(
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Shocking, shocking last 6 overs. Terrible and now we need to bowl very very well.
Sounds like we need the rain now .
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Shocking, shocking last 6 overs. Terrible and now we need to bowl very very well.
Sounds like we need the rain now .
Not really, if we don't win we're out probably.
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I think we'll struggle massively here, we haven't looked like bowling anyone out during this tournament and we need to here.
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Shocking, shocking last 6 overs. Terrible and now we need to bowl very very well.
Sounds like we need the rain now .
Not really, if we don't win we're out probably.
A point gives us some hope - slim though.
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Shocking, shocking last 6 overs. Terrible and now we need to bowl very very well.
Sounds like we need the rain now .
Not really, if we don't win we're out probably.
A point gives us some hope - slim though.
We need to win this, two wickets for Jimmy important. We need to run through them.
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Great start to the bowling, but we need to carry it through.
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Ok pwa you have convinced me to switch back on :)
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Well it's a super start, they need to carry it through though.
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Well it's a super start, they need to carry it through though.
Bresnan always worries me.
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He's got Taylor, big wicket.
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What day do we play South Africa in the semi?
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It's not over yet.
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It's not over yet.
Piece of cake now pwa, no problem;)
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Like I said before, we are gonna win this
Never in doubt. ;D
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Only thing to stop us winning is the rain :(
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It is indeed, just need to rush to 20.
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Need a wicket here NZ have come back a bit.
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cheating kiwis
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cheating kiwis
Is that Gareth Bale batting for NZ ?
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This isn't over yet, Williamson just smashed Bresnan for 6.
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For fucks sake Bresnan.
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This is awful from Bresnan. He's bowling them back into the game
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This is garbage Bresnan, absolute garbage.
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fecking no ball
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He werent out there
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I don't know, very borderline.
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Corey Anderson gone, good.
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There appears tro be about three Jimmy Andersons fielding
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Through to the semis, thanks goodness.
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Well played England & Wales
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Cook also showed he is well capable of scoring a lot quicker and needs to do that moving forward. The middle order is still a big problem though, they are not contributing anywhere near enough.
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Well played England & Wales
Well played England in Wales
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England don't seem to have a clue how to post a decent one day score, absolute rubbish
Fact: Two of the top three scores by a side batting first in this tournament so far have been by England. Only India's 331 in the very first match has beaten England's scores in matches that have gone the full fifty overs.
Maybe we are actually batting as well as the conditions will let us?
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I think we have batted decently in this tournament and bowled well with the exception of the Sri Lanka game.
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Well if the massacre of the Aussies continues,
looks like we will be playing India in the semis Sad face
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England v Sri Lanka final for me- no reason to fear India.
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Sri Lanka look pretty good here.
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Whatever the result here now, Aussies have done brilliant to hang on in there and get so close to the win after losing so many wickets
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Fancy our chances against SA in the semi-final if we can find a bit of form.
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I didn't think we'd get this far, so i'm happy with SA in the semis
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We will beat Sri Lanka in the final by 21 runs.
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I'm getting concerned by Swann's injury issues, he seems to be picking up a lot of problems.
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Bresnan is out of the squad for semi final.
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I'm getting concerned by Swann's injury issues, he seems to be picking up a lot of problems.
All different things though, it suggests that he's picking up niggles because he's playing without full match fitness, you see it quite often in rugby in particular where, no matter how sharp you are in training, the first few big hits take a lot out of you. I used to hate the first game of the season for that very reason, you'd always sit in the changing room feeling a bit battered afterwards.
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Bresnan is out of the squad for semi final.
Assume that it's to be with his wife who is due to give birth? Who replaces him, Woakes or Finn? Woakes is a better batsman but his selection significantly weakens our attack. For that reason Finn has to play.
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Bresnan is out of the squad for semi final.
Assume that it's to be with his wife who is due to give birth? Who replaces him, Woakes or Finn? Woakes is a better batsman but his selection significantly weakens our attack. For that reason Finn has to play.
Finn absolutely must play, we're already making up 10 overs from Bopara and Root we can't afford 10 from Woakes.
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Bresnan is out of the squad for semi final.
Assume that it's to be with his wife who is due to give birth? Who replaces him, Woakes or Finn? Woakes is a better batsman but his selection significantly weakens our attack. For that reason Finn has to play.
Finn absolutely must play, we're already making up 10 overs from Bopara and Root we can't afford 10 from Woakes.
Yep, Finn for me as well. Hopefully if the top of the order perform we won't need runs from the tail anyway.
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No Swann or Bres for us, but critically no Steyn for them. We finally win the toss and field. Happy with that, think we're a lot better chasing than setting.
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blumming eck great start
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4-2 Amla gone, great start.
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Getting Amla on the cheap is a massive bonus, we need to apply a bit of pressure now.
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Bloody hell Finn getting smashed about by Peterson.
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50/4. Let's bowl em out for 80 odd.
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Huge getting De-Villiers out.
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Missed a review opportunity with Duminy there, he's potentially dangerous.
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Missed opportunity there by not reviewing an LBW shout. I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but I really like Shane Warne's commentary. His insight is really interesting and the suggestions he makes about field placing and tactics are always positive and attacking.
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What a great second spinner Tredwell is.
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Nevermind gone anyway.
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Agree, Shane Warne is an interesting commentator.
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78/8...where has that come from England ?
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There will once again be allegations of choking against the South Africans!
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The choking allegations are going to belittle quality of our performance here, getting 2 wickets in the first 2 overs caused the nerves that have led to this, the Jimmy one in particular is perfect swing bowling and deserves credit for the quality bowling rather than any perceived nerves from SA.
As for Warne, I think he's a great commentator, like David Lloyd, Ian Botham and Michael Holding, he's very interesting and has loads of good anecdotes, on top of an excellent understanding of all aspects of the game. More than any other sport cricket allows for the commentators to bring their personality to things and, to give sky credit, the team of commentators as a group is excellent, with the 4 named marginally ahead of the rest, because they've got big personalities.
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We need to knock them over and win this comfortably.
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I hope we haven't fallen into the trap of thinking this game is won, because it isn't. These two are putting on a partnership.
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Broad having one of his off days, he really needs to cut these out.
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Kleinveldt is well into borrowed time, we need to smother him with fielders now, surround the bat and get into his head, we should have done it in the powerplay though really.
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We don't want to let them get too many more.
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This is an odd decision, we should be trying to bowl them out not using our 'fifth' bowler.
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Cook is losing it here, we shouldn't be bowling filler overs. There's two wickets remaining, bowl them out. This is now a 72 run partnership and they're getting towards a perfectly defendable total.
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Well our 'fifth' bowler and Broad are making an almighty hash of this. SA are back in the game now.
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Stop pissing your pants Paul, they only got 175 ffs anyone wold think we were chasing 300 +
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Glad it's finally over, and of course I'd have taken 175 before the start but from 80-8 it's quite a let off.
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Does 2 in 2 from Broad to finish them off stop him getting grief for a few of his earlier overs?
getting SA all out for 175 is a very good bowling performance, that it could have been an exceptional bowling performance shouldn't stop us from being very proud of this one.
As for why it's not an exceptional 100 all out I think that has more to do with Cook than anything else. He just isn't willing to press his advantage, we're just very passive as a team. Most of the top sides in the last 20-40 years would've gone ultra aggressive at the tail and tried to skittle them in 25 overs, you'll lose some quick runs but a tail ender is going to regularly biff it to the fence without offering up catches. the question is would we have given them 95 runs for the last 2 wickets if we'd surrounded the bat and forced the issue. I have no idea what the answer is but I also know that with Cook we're never going to get the opportunity to find out.
We should still win this so it's nit-picking to an extent but I'd love to see us really take someone to the cleaners in ODI cricket, I can't recall us doing it any time recently.
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Can't see us having too many problems here (hopefully!!). Cook, Bell and Trott aren't under any real pressure to score quickly and can play at their natural pace.
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I think it's very important that Cook learns about being more ruthless. All in all we've done very well to knock over SA for 175, and hopefully we'll knock the runs off comfortably. I'm not sure whether moving forward having 10 overs made up by two part timers is the way to go.
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Cook gone.
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let's hope the Bears duo can see us home...
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I think it's very important that Cook learns about being more ruthless. All in all we've done very well to knock over SA for 175, and hopefully we'll knock the runs off comfortably. I'm not sure whether moving forward having 10 overs made up by two part timers is the way to go.
2 part-timers is fine if they're both contributing meaningfully with the bat, I'd argue that both Root and Bopara have been key at times in the group games.
I still think our issues this summer have been about aggression in the field more than individual batting and bowling performances.
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I don't mind part time bowlers taking a couple of overs here or there, or bowling out if they're doing well. However I don't think we should rely on 10 overs from them every game.
Bell gone, come on Joe carry us home.
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I don't mind part time bowlers taking a couple of overs here or there, or bowling out if they're doing well. However I don't think we should rely on 10 overs from them every game.
Bell gone, come on Joe carry us home.
The thing is, having 2 part timers means we can bat to 7, which allows 3 all or nothing middle order batsmen in Bopara, Morgan and Buttler. We've seen Bopara and Buttler make the most of that in the last few weeks. We need Morgan to work out how to play teams who give him loads of width (which has happened all summer), if he can start scoring big runs in those games then we're in a good place. If we can then get all 3 of them doing it a bit more consistently so that at least one of them goes at 200%+ for a few overs every game we'll be set. We've got 4 very good batsmen at the top but 3 of them can be guilty of allowing the rate to dip too much, having a bunch of sloggers to call on late gives us a bit of leeway to keep the top 4 as it is for the time being.
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I don't mind part time bowlers taking a couple of overs here or there, or bowling out if they're doing well. However I don't think we should rely on 10 overs from them every game.
Bell gone, come on Joe carry us home.
The thing is, having 2 part timers means we can bat to 7, which allows 3 all or nothing middle order batsmen in Bopara, Morgan and Buttler. We've seen Bopara and Buttler make the most of that in the last few weeks. We need Morgan to work out how to play teams who give him loads of width (which has happened all summer), if he can start scoring big runs in those games then we're in a good place. If we can then get all 3 of them doing it a bit more consistently so that at least one of them goes at 200%+ for a few overs every game we'll be set. We've got 4 very good batsmen at the top but 3 of them can be guilty of allowing the rate to dip too much, having a bunch of sloggers to call on late gives us a bit of leeway to keep the top 4 as it is for the time being.
I agree it's a very tricky balance, but really we need numbers 5 and 6 to contribute on a more consistent basis. Morgan in particular needs to start performing. If we get regular performances from those, we could probably afford a bowling all rounder in there. Obviously in that scenario the wicket keeper would be batting 6.
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In this sort of scenario there isn't a batsman you'd want more than Trotty.
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I think it's very important that Cook learns about being more ruthless.
I think that Cook is by nature a conservative Captain, as was Strauss before him. Cook is still relatively inexperienced as a Captain and a ruthless streak is something that may develop with experience.
If you compare the leadership of Michael Vaughan to that of Strauss or Cook then Vaughan always seemed to be a captain that could make something happen and thought nothing of making a bold move in the field; think of the silly mid on/short mid on to Matthew Hayden in the 2005 Ashes. Strauss/Cook by nature are not like that and arguably they have a better set of players than Vaughan had at his disposal.
The Ashes will be a huge test for Cook and I reckon he will thrive on the back of a good series win and the tone of his captaincy will change for the better.
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Great win and a place in the final against either India or Sri Lanka
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Great performance from Trott, did exactly what you expect from him. Good from Root until he got a bit eager and gave his wicket away, but then it was a nice little cameo from Morgan, he play 2-3 lovely shots in there which will have him feeling a bit better about himself, if he can build on that and put in a performance in the final it will help massively.
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Any ball scratching out there today?
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Trott in that scenario is perfect, all he needs to do is be a bit more dominant when we're setting a total and he'd be perfect. One of the most pleasing things(other than winning!) was Buttler's work behind the stumps. If he can build on that, he can be a great keeper.
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Trott in that scenario is perfect, all he needs to do is be a bit more dominant when we're setting a total and he'd be perfect. One of the most pleasing things(other than winning!) was Buttler's work behind the stumps. If he can build on that, he can be a great keeper.
The catch for the 9th was an absolute beauty, great reactions to get over to it.
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well done England
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Trott in that scenario is perfect, all he needs to do is be a bit more dominant when we're setting a total and he'd be perfect. One of the most pleasing things(other than winning!) was Buttler's work behind the stumps. If he can build on that, he can be a great keeper.
Not sure he is ever going to be that player Paul. Trotty pretty much scores at a rate of a run a ball, so he's perfect to anchor the innings. What we really need is KP to get back to form as he is the kind of player who can take the game away from teams in the middle overs. Although he's captain, Cook really isn't offering too much at the moment in ODIs and really should be replaced at opener by Trott when / if KP comes back.
Agree about Buttler.
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I think Cook is offering more than Bell to be honest.
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Interesting KP named in 20/20 squad against NZ.
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Interesting KP named in 20/20 squad against NZ.
He'll play in the second T20 match only if he comes unscathed through the 4 day game for Surrey against Yorks which starts today.
If you look at the squad, only KP, if he comes through has any realistic chance of being in the squad for the Ashes 1st test. Is it a good move to rest them or should they keep playing? We've been caught cold in many 1st tests after a prolonged lay off for senior players.
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Bloody hell, I've heard some long national anthems in my time, but that Sri Lankan one puts them all in the shade. It goes on for ever!
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It always amazes me that Jimmy's bowling average at Test level is 30, but I guess a lot of that is down to his early career. He needs to get it down a bit.
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The pitch in Cardiff looks impossible.
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Sri Lanka choking it today!
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I think it's the pitch, but we'll see when India bat.
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Maybe not the pitch.
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Big toss to win with dodgy clouds about .
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England need to pick a team that can win a reduced overs game. May be a 20/20 match. Tredwell essential in attack Buttler at number 3 or 4 with Ravinder also moving up the order if game is reduced.
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Stupid decision to hold the final on a Sunday. Should've been Saturday so Sunday could be a reserve day in the event of rain.
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Stupid decision to hold the final on a Sunday. Should've been Saturday so Sunday could be a reserve day in the event of rain.
Totally agree.
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SKY decide when the final takes place and they wanted Saturday left aside for the Lions test match. With the rugby finishing around 1.30 a start for cricket say at 2.00 would have been too late even for a day/night match.
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Well there's going to be a 24 over game, come on England.
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SKY decide when the final takes place and they wanted Saturday left aside for the Lions test match. With the rugby finishing around 1.30 a start for cricket say at 2.00 would have been too late even for a day/night match.
In terms of international cricket, Sky don't matter. Indian broadcast times are far more important. It may be that they wanted it on a Sunday as lots of people in India work Saturdays?
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Not going to happen now.
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The Sunday is a factor in India and also a match starting mid afternoon Indian time is optimal audience however the final could have been been say South Africa and West Indies in which case you can say goodbye to Indian TV audience. So I still think Sky in UK determined the day and time.
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20 over game then hopefully. In other news KP has scored a century, which is great news.
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SKY decide when the final takes place and they wanted Saturday left aside for the Lions test match. With the rugby finishing around 1.30 a start for cricket say at 2.00 would have been too late even for a day/night match.
I disagree affers, Sky had no say in the final date , hey have 4 sports channels anyway - the tournament is broadcast worldwide and while sky may pull the strings in the premier league they have little clout with the icc.
Blame fixture congestion and the silly decision to play New Zealand in a 20/20 game on Tuesday.
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Sky would rather have a World Test Championship and see the Champions Trophy scrapped. The current format only exists because Indian broadcasters know that their public love ODIs.
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All broadcasters deal as a syndicate with ICC and usually the home broadcaster at host country has more sway. They pay the money and than sell on rights to other countries. I am convinced Sky chose Sunday because they did not want a clash with Lions match on Saturday.
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They could've started at 1 o clock yesterday and avoided the Lions match. Rugby and cricket attract different audiences anyway.
India run cricket, not Sky.
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They ought to build a Cricket ground in the 'bletchley gap' in Milton Keynes that can hold big crowds,
its been sunny here all day, I reckon we get the least rain and bad weather anywhere in the UK
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They could've started at 1 o clock yesterday and avoided the Lions match. Rugby and cricket attract different audiences anyway.
India run cricket, not Sky.
Indeed.
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How much would it cost to build a roof over Edgbaston? I reckon it would be worth considering if the ECB would promise us at least one test every year plus a World Cup semi.
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They could've started at 1 o clock yesterday and avoided the Lions match. Rugby and cricket attract different audiences anyway.
India run cricket, not Sky.
Lions match finished at 1ish however as these two events were the main weekend bill for Sky they would have wanted about an hours gap to squeeze as much as possible out of post match Rugby and prematch Cricket. This was just not possible and therefore different days chosen.
And India despite popular myth do not run world cricket.
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They ought to build a Cricket ground in the 'bletchley gap' in Milton Keynes that can hold big crowds,
its been sunny here all day, I reckon we get the least rain and bad weather anywhere in the UK
Next you will be suggesting Test matches in Cardiff and Southampton?
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Bresnan, Buttler and Morgan absolutely shocking. 4 runs given away.
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How much would it cost to build a roof over Edgbaston? I reckon it would be worth considering if the ECB would promise us at least one test every year plus a World Cup semi.
What we need is a Dyson bladeless dryer ring around the floodlight pylons encircling the ground that dries the rain as before it gets on the pitch!
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1 down good start
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Yep they've started well, but India have an awful lot of batting.
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Getting Dhawan early will damage India's confidence. That's key wicket to go for.
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They could've started at 1 o clock yesterday and avoided the Lions match. Rugby and cricket attract different audiences anyway.
India run cricket, not Sky.
Lions match finished at 1ish however as these two events were the main weekend bill for Sky they would have wanted about an hours gap to squeeze as much as possible out of post match Rugby and prematch Cricket. This was just not possible and therefore different days chosen.
And India despite popular myth do not run world cricket.
Sky do not run the icc - they have 4 sports channels and often have test cricket, premier football and Grand Prix racing as well as golf at the same time on a Sunday in August .
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How much would it cost to build a roof over Edgbaston? I reckon it would be worth considering if the ECB would promise us at least one test every year plus a World Cup semi.
Has there ever been an indoor international cricket match?
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Another over throw, shocking.
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This game wont finish .
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No I doubt it.
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I suppose a share of it means we've ended our duck of not winning a major 50 over trophy?
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I suppose a share of it means we've ended our duck of not winning a major 50 over trophy?
That would be a very poor way of doing it, and I doubt the players would see it that way, but yeah, I'd imagine it's technically true.
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It's not rained in London. We could've had a whole days play here.
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Dhawan gone, well done Ravi.
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This rain is very annoying we're well on top.
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Ravinder is coming of age in this tournament ... About time!
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Bresnan stop giving away wides.
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Fucking hell India are moving now, costly drop of Kohli.
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Kohli gone.
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Come on umpire, that didn't need a review he was run out by a metre.
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130 to win, you'll take that. Great bowling effort overall, just hope the weather holds.
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Just under 7 an over should be a walk.....
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Oh fucking hell here we go, poor from Cook.
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Slasher Trott to the rescue
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Trott started very well.
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Fuck Trott gone stumped.
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Fucking hell Root gone.
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Time to turn up Morgan.
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Shocking call from third umpire to give Bell out, shocking.
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Shocking call from third umpire to give Bell out, shocking.
Agree, appalling decision, there's no way the 3rd umpire was sure, which means you can't give it.
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That was a very generous wicket to india
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It was a dreadful decision.
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We are getting behind the 8 ball here.
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Bell out to a very dodgy decision. I hope the syndicates didn't catch a cold on that one... (joke).
Now to see what Morgan, Bopara and Buttler can do under real pressure. I don't want to be relying on Bresnan/Broad for runs here, unless it's less than ten!
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We are looking buried here.
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keep the faith!!!
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40 needed off 4. This is very doable.
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Come on Ravi.
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My money is on England from here 28 runs 3 overs
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Morgan and Ravi doing brilliantly, if they stay in we'll win.
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Fuck Morgan gone, time to turn up Buttler.
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There was no need for Morgan to do that
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20 needed off 15, with Buttler and Bopara to see us home.
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Morgan and Ravi doing brilliantly, if they stay in we'll win.
nothing can go wrong now...
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Fucking Bopara gone.
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We are massively under the pump now, those 5 overthrows are going to be crucial.
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Need 11 or more of 19th.
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Shocking Buttler.
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I just don't see how Buttler is in front of Prior, that's the game.
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Shite bums.
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Typical England - defeat from the jaws of victory - chucked the game away !
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Broad can bat
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We have collapsed, absolutely moronic from Bresnan and Broad.
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FFS this is terrible
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Jos Buttler is a complete waste of space.
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This is still doable but England need to calm down.
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Wankers
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Utter fiasco- unacceptable collapse at this level- the game was in the bag - suicidal cricket!
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Absolutely shocking England, absolutely shocking. Jos Buttler is a complete and utter waste of space who should never be in the team. The third umpire was a disgrace as well.
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To say that they choked is being generous.
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fcuk it, bigger fish to fry soon.
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That was very disappointing. The Bell decision beggared belief although looked like it might not matter. 2 wickets in 2 balls. Farce.
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Morgan's dismissal is the most to blame. We'd taken 8 from the first 2 balls of the over leaving us needing 24 off 22 ish, yet he continued playing an ugly hoik to a ball he got nowhere near to. Moronic.
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To be fair, India have played very well through the tournament.
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I'll requalify on Buttler, he's played 13 ODIs and has an average of 12.88. What on earth has he done to be in front of Prior? He might be ok in the future, but his record is nowhere near good enough. We also paid for early sloppy fielding.
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That was very disappointing. The Bell decision beggared belief although looked like it might not matter. 2 wickets in 2 balls. Farce.
The Bell decision was a disgrace.
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Morgan and Bopara getting out in consecutive balls killed us today, we really did choke.
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I'll requalify on Buttler, he's played 13 ODIs and has an average of 12.88. What on earth has he done to be in front of Prior? He might be ok in the future, but his record is nowhere near good enough. We also paid for early sloppy fielding.
I'd rather keep Prior fresh for the proper battles. Apparently, the selectors approached Steven Davies but he said no?
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Winning a 50 over competition is still a proper battle, Prior should be playing.
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Or would you rather win the Ashes?
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I don't think they're mutually exclusive or why play Anderson, Cook, Trott, Bell, Root, Broad and when fit Swann? Being in a winning team breeds a winning mentality. Prior should be in that team full stop. You can win one day tournaments and Test Series, see Australia and the West Indies in the past.
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England need to learn from this tournament. They have been too rigid, again. Bresnan and Buttler put together performances all too seldom and we need to play our best players. Quite why Matt Prior isn't favoured over Buttler is a mystery. You can see we are not a million miles away from being a decent side, perhaps the best there is, but Ashley Giles needs to be able to adapt a little better.
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Bresnan does not offer enough with the bat to justify being in front of Finn.
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Major positive of tournament was Bopara, he did really well.
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Meh, the 50 over game becomes a lottery once it is reduced below 35 overs, I lose interest as it's not a proper game, just another T20 baseball match.
Let's get these two pointless T20 games against NZ over with and get on with the proper cricket eh?
On a positive note - Pietersen 177* at a run a ball for Surrey today.
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It was a very exciting and proper game in fairness Dave, it wasn't a slog.
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How was it a proper 50 over game? No batsman could build an innings like you should be able to in a 50 over match.
Hardly any of those wickets would have gone like that in a proper 50 over match, players got out having to artificially force the pace.
It was everything I don't really like about T20, which is a fine form of cricket for those with ADD but not proper cricket.
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I didn't say it was a proper 50 over game, I said it wasn't a slog and it wasn't.
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The best form of cricket is obviously Test cricket, but they all have their merits and the more fans that can be brought to the sport the better.
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Only because the pitch was too slow, most of the wickets fell because the batsmen were trying to slog and failing miserably!
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Only because the pitch was too slow, most of the wickets fell because the batsmen were trying to slog and failing miserably!
I've been moving house so I only started watching a few balls before the shocking decision against Bell but I agree to a large extent, the bowlers had the conditions but instead of playing to the conditions batsmen got out trying to hit out of the ground when a nurdle for 1 was the right choice. It doesn't help that T20 'belief' is that nurdling has no part. scoring a run a ball for 5 out of 6 is fine if the 1 dodgy delivery gets 4 or 6, that 9 or 11 an over which would be pushing 200, more importantly bowlers hate the strike being rotated, you can't set a batsmen up in that situation.
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Yep, Morgan's dismissal was so premeditated it was ridiculous. Sorry, but once you've reached a situation where boundaries are only required roughly once an over, there's no need to go through with a premeditated shot once you realise it isn't on. It's just basic intelligence.
Was a good game today to be fair, mostly because the conditions favoured the bowlers. Not a slogathon at all.
Prior hasn't been picked because he consistently failed for a long time. I think his game's come on since then though. With everyone fit, my team in ODI's would be
Cook
Bell
Trott
Pietersen
Root
Prior
Bopara
Broad
Anderson
Finn
Tredwell
Morgan/Root interchangeable based on form.
Pietersen/Trott's positions in the order interchangeable depending on when we lost our first wicket.
Top side that.
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Micky Arthur to be sacked a couple of weeks before the Ashes? odd decision by Australia.
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Micky Arthur to be sacked a couple of weeks before the Ashes? odd decision by Australia.
I actually think this is bad news, the squad seemed to really dislike him, I think there was a bit of a rift we could've exploited, they'll all be behind a new guy now.
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Quite possibly, let's hope it doesn't make too much difference.
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It sounds like Darren Lehman is to be announced as at least temporar coach. An excellent player and a bit of a hard man, just what the Aussie dressing room needs. I don't think 3 weeks will be enough time for him to instigate any wholesale changes to the coaching structure, but he may well be able to tighten disciplne and quiet the dressing room rows. What a shame. We'll still beat them 5-0 as long as the weather doesn't intervene.
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Arthur's sacking is good for Australia and not so good for us - however we are far better than them and will comfortably beat them in the ashes - their best hope of avoiding a whitewash is rain.
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Sounds like Compton isn't going to make the Ashes, left out of warm up game with Root opening.
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Sounds like Compton isn't going to make the Ashes, left out of warm up game with Root opening.
Probably a good move with kp returning for the ashes- root is a natural opener and seems confident and assured.
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Quite possibly, let's hope it doesn't make too much difference.
I really don't think it will make much of a difference. Well ok may be 4-1 instead of 5-0!
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Arthur's sacking is good for Australia and not so good for us - however we are far better than them and will comfortably beat them in the ashes - their best hope of avoiding a whitewash is rain.
England always seem to throw in one shite performance per series. Rain/bad light will ruin at least one match. England will win the series three-one.
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Sounds like Compton isn't going to make the Ashes, left out of warm up game with Root opening.
Boyd Rankin is included in the England 14.
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I think that is purely experience, there's no way he'd be anywhere near starting. Does anyone know how Tremlett is getting on?
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Sounds like Compton isn't going to make the Ashes, left out of warm up game with Root opening.
Probably a good move with kp returning for the ashes- root is a natural opener and seems confident and assured.
I think that is purely experience, there's no way he'd be anywhere near starting. Does anyone know how Tremlett is getting on?
He's struggled against the new ball in his test innings so far which must be a concern.
Hopefully that's just a slip in concentration thing rather than a technical flaw i.e. something that will be addressed when he's conciously aware that he is opening.
My housemate is physio at Surrey and he is likely to play again at the top level whereas a few months ago he thought
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The Aussie seam attack of Siddle, Faulkner, Starc and Pattinson looks strong.
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It sounds like Darren Lehman is to be announced as at least temporar coach. An excellent player and a bit of a hard man, just what the Aussie dressing room needs.
I used to love watching him at Yorkshire and he was forever encouraging the younger players. You used to see him sat before he went into bat with his feet up having a fag and then he'd stroll out and make it all look effortless. I was hoping he's return as coach one day but Jason Gillespie is doing a brilliant job
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The Aussie seam attack of Siddle, Faulkner, Starc and Pattinson looks strong.
Powder puff!
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Pattinson, Siddle and Faulkner are certainly not powder puff. Pattinson will be world class.
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Boyd Rankin a wicket with his 4th ball as an England player!!!
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This is a fucking horrendous bowling display. Dernbach and Woakes are never ever international class.
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However all round we've bowled utter utter dross all round.
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However all round we've bowled utter utter dross all round.
Yep have to agree with that. Although I think on this pitch and with the short boundary, 200 is a bare minimum.
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Pathetic display so far. Utter dross.
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Other than Luke Wright this has been a disgraceful bowling display. I don't care if this isn't the first choice bowlers, back up has to be better than this.
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Other than Luke Wright this has been a disgraceful bowling display. I don't care if this isn't the first choice bowlers, back up has to be better than this.
Rankins figures actually look pretty good. 1 for 24 from 4 overs is excellent in any 20 over game.
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Actually I misread Rankins figures, so yeah he's done well. However Woakes and Dernbach are just not up to it.
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Actually I misread Rankins figures, so yeah he's done well. However Woakes and Dernbach are just not up to it.
I'd have to agree, and as a bears fan that pains me to say about Woakes
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Nothing to worry about - a makeshift side and they have shown why they are not first choice with this bowling display.
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I agree to an extent eastie, but that performance was way below 'not first choice'. They're representing England and must be a lot lot better than what was produced.
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Maybe but I'm not a huge fan of one day cricket , to me its all about the ashes and test cricket - 20/20 is too much of a slogging game.
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On a vaguely related note I really hope that Tremlett forces his way back into the Test picture, because I think he's an excellent bowler.
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On a vaguely related note I really hope that Tremlett forces his way back into the Test picture, because I think he's an excellent bowler.
We may go with two spinners in one test but swann is clearly the top man in test cricket for us for spin - tremlett deservedly should be first choice in one day cricket though.
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I don't think we'll go two spinners as we can bowl Root and KP in support. Tremlett for the Test side for me, you look at his record and the fact some of the Aussies don't like short bowling, I'd have him involved.
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Good start to the reply.
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Cracking start to proceedings .
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I don't think we'll go two spinners as we can bowl Root and KP in support. Tremlett for the Test side for me, you look at his record and the fact some of the Aussies don't like short bowling, I'd have him involved.
Ahead of swann? Not for me .
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Lumb gone, but gave us a very good start.
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Need to keep calm and not lose their heads here.
Everything is in reach.
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It's very much in reach, they need to make sure they don't get bogged down.
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Lets hope we don't collapse this time !
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We are, it's up to Buttler to turn up.
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Not sure its possible to justify Morgans innings.
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Buttler certainly owes the team an innings after his pathetic champions trophy
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It was very poor, it would be good if Buttler could turn up today. He really needs to start performing on a much more consistent basis on the international stage.
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Bopara peforming again.
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Great performance and entertainment by both teams so far.
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That little scoop that Buttler does is effective but absolutely ridiculous.
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Buttler gone at key time.
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I think we've blown it again
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glad to be proven wrong though
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The paddle doesn't work this time.
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16 off the last.
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Stokes 6 off the first ball.
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can't afford the dot ball though
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Ravi better win the game after turning down the 2nd
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Horrendous
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Think it's gone now.
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Yep, really poor last few balls
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Failed at the finish again here, our bowling performance cost us.
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Crap, again
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We are choking finishes quite badly.
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Gotta say that Morgans 7 of 9 balls was really poor and took some impetus out of our run chase
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Yes if you look at all the player's strike rates it's only his that was below 100.
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Is this the most pointless series in the history of cricket?
Two baseball games sandwiched between a huge International tournament and The Ashes?
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Compton doing well against Aussie attack at the moment.
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Compton doing well against Aussie attack at the moment.
You and me could do well against the Aussie attack pwa:)
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Bumble's on fine form during tonight's commentary
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I don't think we'll go two spinners as we can bowl Root and KP in support. Tremlett for the Test side for me, you look at his record and the fact some of the Aussies don't like short bowling, I'd have him involved.
Ahead of swann? Not for me .
Are you thinking of Tredwell?
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He is I think.
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Sohail Tanvir has one of the weirdest actions I've ever seen
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Bumble's on fine form during tonight's commentary
Is he ever not on form? I think he's a fantastic commentator, probably my favourite in any sport.
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Compton doing well against Aussie attack at the moment.
[Boycott]My Granny could score against that attack wi' a stick of rhubarb.[/Boycott]
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Eoin Morgan is out injured for the second "baseball" game.
That means that KP can be brought back in without having to drop anyone.
Tredwell to captain the team
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Compton playing for Pears against Aussies next week, selectors clearly still looking at him.
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I don't think we'll go two spinners as we can bowl Root and KP in support. Tremlett for the Test side for me, you look at his record and the fact some of the Aussies don't like short bowling, I'd have him involved.
Ahead of swann? Not for me .
Are you thinking of Tredwell?
Sorry yes , was thinking you were talking about tredwell.
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I don't think we'll go two spinners as we can bowl Root and KP in support. Tremlett for the Test side for me, you look at his record and the fact some of the Aussies don't like short bowling, I'd have him involved.
Ahead of swann? Not for me .
Are you thinking of Tredwell?
Sorry yes , was thinking you were talking about tredwell.
The issue with Tremlett is that you only want 4 front line bowlers, Swann and Jimmy are untouchable and Broad is close to it, so Finn would be the first to drop out and I'm not sure I'd be happy dropping him.
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I'd definitely prefer the option to be between Finn and Tremlett than Finn and Bresnan though.
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On the BBC there are people questioning KP being brought straight back into the side, utter madness. He's a world class, game changing player and is a must for the Ashes.
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Quick quiz question whilst we wait for the Ashes to get under way.
At which ground did Frederick Spofforth return match figures of 14 for 37 for the Australians against an England XI?
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Quick quiz question whilst we wait for the Ashes to get under way.
At which ground did Frederick Spofforth return match figures of 14 for 37 for the Australians against an England XI?
Blimey. I know he took fourteen wickets at The Oval in 1882 against England (been reading up on my Ashes history in preparation) but that was for a lot more than 37, Nope, dunno.
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Quick quiz question whilst we wait for the Ashes to get under way.
At which ground did Frederick Spofforth return match figures of 14 for 37 for the Australians against an England XI?
Blimey. I know he took fourteen wickets at The Oval in 1882 against England (been reading up on my Ashes history in preparation) but that was for a lot more than 37, Nope, dunno.
Aston Lower Grounds?
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Mr w is correct on may26 1884 - 7-34 and 7-3 .
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It is indeed the Aston Lower Grounds, one of only two first class matches played on the old cricket ground.
Scorecard (http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/2/2804.html)
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That's what I call a low scoring game! Probably not a great wicket then?
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Buffalo Bill must have fucked it up.
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No, I'm talking shite. Just checked and that was three years afterwords.
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That's what I call a low scoring game! Probably not a great wicket then?
I think the ground/wicket must have been fairly new. From what I could make out the land had been used by us before moving to Perry Barr, by Birchfield when they first started up and only shows as a cricket ground on maps from the early 1880s onwards.
Then again, maybe the English batsmen were crap.
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Got to laugh at the Essex vs England toss, Bopara won and said 'it looks like a great pitch to put runs on the board, so we'll have a bowl.' It was very funny.
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Cook gone for 18 to Tymal Mills bowling at 90 mph looks a prospect.
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Oh shit, Root looks injured.
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Hopefully just an impact injury.
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Root gone for 41.
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Mills gets Trott, he looks a good bowler.
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KP out for 49.
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Bell gone, 172-5 not an amazing batting display.
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Interesting to see andy flower confirm that joe root will open the batting in the ashes and Compton will not be in the team .
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When did he say that? This is quite a relaxed game, but we shouldn't get knocked over and it's important for Bairstow to have time.
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He sees root as an opener and he has the slot - Said root will start the ashes because they believe he will score more runs - but door open for Compton at some stage maybe - all he can do is score runs and impress-
He might do, but it will take some time. Australia have a plethora of selection dilemmas, while England have already made their one tricky decision by dropping Nick Compton as opener.
Not that Compton is completely out of the picture. He will play for Worcestershire against Australia this week. “I would not write off Compton’s chances of taking part in the Ashes,” says Flower. “A lot can happen. His only option at the moment is to score as many runs as he can so that he is viewed as being in excellent form if we wanted to call on another batsman.”
But why was he dropped? “Because in our judgment Joe Root will score more runs than anyone else competing for the opening spot. He’s an opening batsman and we believe he has the game and the mental make up to be successful in that role.”
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Root is the man they feel will be best as opener but of course if he fails then maybe Compton could get a recall at some stage in the series - i think root will be fine.
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Cheers eastie, yeah I'm happy enough for Root to be there.
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This is ridiculous both Bresnan and Swann have been injured this morning by fast deleveries, hopefully not serious but should we be risking this.
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This is ridiculous both Bresnan and Swann have been injured this morning by fast deleveries, hopefully not serious but should we be risking this.
Come now winchy, get yourself over to the tennis for the afternoon - save your analysis for the ashes my friend .
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Nah I don't mind the tennis, but the cricket is the most important. Bres getting a century will certainly help his claims though, Finn's bowling is very important now.
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When the ashes begins i agree - but I'd rather take in Laura robson and andy Murray today than a pointless friendly against a team who were bowled all out for 19 only a fortnight ago.
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Although it becomes important if we pick up injuries, and Swann hasn't taken the field for the reply.
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This is ridiculous both Bresnan and Swann have been injured this morning by fast deleveries, hopefully not serious but should we be risking this.
Well yes, the players definitely need a game to get the sharpness up before The Ashes. It would be nice if Essex could just throw down a load of pies but they'll get a lot more of the short stuff from the Aussies.
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This is ridiculous both Bresnan and Swann have been injured this morning by fast deleveries, hopefully not serious but should we be risking this.
Well yes, the players definitely need a game to get the sharpness up before The Ashes. It would be nice if Essex could just throw down a load of pies but they'll get a lot more of the short stuff from the Aussies.
I get that for the batsmen, but as well as Swann and Bresnan played they're principally there to bowl so them getting hammered by fast bowling isn't ideal. Swann's potential injury being a case in point.
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Interesting Lehmann has confirmed Watson and Rogers will open the batting in the first Test. I assumed Rogers would bat 3 to stablise the line up, but clearly not.
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This is ridiculous both Bresnan and Swann have been injured this morning by fast deleveries, hopefully not serious but should we be risking this.
Well yes, the players definitely need a game to get the sharpness up before The Ashes. It would be nice if Essex could just throw down a load of pies but they'll get a lot more of the short stuff from the Aussies.
I get that for the batsmen, but as well as Swann and Bresnan played they're principally there to bowl so them getting hammered by fast bowling isn't ideal. Swann's potential injury being a case in point.
Bresnan and Swann can often make vital runs in the lower order, especially after one of our still too frequent middle-order collapses, so the time they had in the middle will be useful. Yes the injury is annoying but he could just have easily done something like that in the nets, or he might have took a knock in fielding practice, shit happens, but cricketers need proper match time.
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I would actually look at the possibility of Bopara being number 6 for England again. Now that he has his form and confidence back he looks a good player, and with his bowling I think he adds a nice balance to the team.
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Ha jinxed him there, but I do think he's a possible option.
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Cheers eastie, yeah I'm happy enough for Root to be there.
Seems like a positive move which is something we haven't always done in the past. Keeping Compton at opener and batting Root at 6 would have been the safe option.
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Yes the injury is annoying but he could just have easily done something like that in the nets, or he might have took a knock in fielding practice, shit happens, but cricketers need proper match time.
I'm fairly certain Bairstow hasn't played any cricket whatsoever for a month which I don't understand, he's young, fit and surely playing time will do him more good than countless net sessions?
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Would you go with Finn or Brennan for the ashes? I think I would be tempted to choose Finn.
Bopara at 6 ahead of Bairstow is a good option as his bowling can be used if needed , i agree.
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Would you go with Finn or Brennan for the ashes? I think I would be tempted to choose Finn.
Bopara at 6 ahead of Bairstow is a good option as his bowling can be used if needed , i agree.
I'd be happy enough with that. As Chris mentions the lack of cricket for Bairstow is a big concern, I don't think he's been managed very well with that.
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Swann sounds alright, so that's good.
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Cook, root, trott, bell, pieterson, bopara, prior, broad, swann, Anderson, Finn for me.
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I'd be happy with that to be honest. I like Bairstow but I think he needs more cricket.
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Finn bowled a great spell of reverse swing, that'll probably get him in the team.
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Would you go with Finn or Brennan for the ashes? I think I would be tempted to choose Finn.
Bopara at 6 ahead of Bairstow is a good option as his bowling can be used if needed , i agree.
I think Bresnan's runs will mean he gets picked ahead of Finn although it's a tough one to call.
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Would you go with Finn or Brennan for the ashes? I think I would be tempted to choose Finn.
Bopara at 6 ahead of Bairstow is a good option as his bowling can be used if needed , i agree.
I think Bresnan's runs will mean he gets picked ahead of Finn although it's a tough one to call.
Given the actual problem position is 6 I'd be tempted to push prior up and pick 5 bowlers. Prior is too good to bat at 7 and between them I think it's fair to expect a bit of a score from swann, bres and broad, all 3 are close to being considered as bowling all rounders. The issue is do you make a change like that for the ashes?
I'm not convinced by Bopara in test cricket, he doesn't seem to have the temperament. Bairstow has some quality but he needs to be playing for his county and getting big runs. Morgan needs to work out how he's going to progress, he seems to have been worked out at the minute so he needs to adapt his game.
For me that leaves the options being the extra bowler or bring Compton back and move root back down, but I think Root needs a chance at the top as he's got the ability to open the batting for us for a long time but we need to see if he is mentally strong enough.
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Problem is Prior plays excellent with the degree of freedom at 7, and 6 then adds a different pressure. I think if Finn bowls like he did yesterday, they'll go for him. If you're going to have a 3 man seam attack, they all have to be strike bowlers if possible.
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Problem is Prior plays excellent with the degree of freedom at 7, and 6 then adds a different pressure. I think if Finn bowls like he did yesterday, they'll go for him. If you're going to have a 3 man seam attack, they all have to be strike bowlers if possible.
Purely for the bowling Finn gets the nod. Given that the effective choice is between Bopara, Bairstow, Morgan and Bresnan. You can probably dismiss Morgan after the summer he's had so far. The others all average 31 in tests, so the batting is very even, and with Bres clearly the better bowler he really is the best option. However I'm not sure if you can put him at 6, but as you say, moving prior is a big risk given he's been one of our form batsmen for the last 18months.
long term prior moving up one and taking 5 bowlers seems the right way to appraoch it, with Finn and Monty being the 11th man depending on the pitch.
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I appreciate Brennan is the better batsman out the two but Finn is the better bowler in my opinion as should be selected on that basis - we have the batting firepower and need to be able to bowl the Aussies out - Finn, Anderson and broad with swann as spinner will be the attack for me.
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I appreciate Brennan is the better batsman out the two but Finn is the better bowler in my opinion as should be selected on that basis - we have the batting firepower and need to be able to bowl the Aussies out - Finn, Anderson and broad with swann as spinner will be the attack for me.
I don't disagree in the slightest, as I've said, my question is whether Bresnan's batting is sufficient to have him as a fifth bowler with the expectation he can score enough to make up for the lack of a genuine middle order batsman. Given the form/experience of the options I think I'd fall on the side of starting Bres. A Batting average of 31 and a bowling average of 32 is fine for a middle order allrounder and his economy (2.96 apparently) with the ball is good as well, particularly with the older ball.
Root gone lbw in the warm up game, looked to have started well alongside Cook as well.
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I think I'd be happier with bopara at 6 and strengthen the batting options - depending on the pitch - certainly between bopara and bresman for that last position for me.
Bairstow, Morgan and Compton haven't cut the mustard when given their chance and its interesting to see who flower goes for.
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Australia are cruising at 150-0 against the Pears, which is a worry.
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I think I'd be happier with bopara at 6 and strengthen the batting options - depending on the pitch - certainly between bopara and bresman for that last position for me.
Bairstow, Morgan and Compton haven't cut the mustard when given their chance and its interesting to see who flower goes for.
Bit harsh on Bairstow, he played one Test in NZ when he hadn't played any cricket for months and then he did well in the last series.
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Australia are cruising at 150-0 against the Pears, which is a worry.
Not really, Wusster are shite.
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Australia are cruising at 150-0 against the Pears, which is a worry.
Not really, Wusster are shite.
Totally agree - they are an average division 2 side with an average bowling attack.
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Well you could argue the same of Essex, although two bowlers were very impressive for them. Mills and Craddock look great prospects.
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I wouldn't hang your hat on these 2 friendlies - once we get down to the nitty gritty we will smash those Aussies :)
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Exactly, it's like getting all worked up if Villa lose to Wycombe or Crewe, it'll mean absolutely nothing when the season starts.
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Bairstow, Morgan and Compton haven't cut the mustard when given their chance and its interesting to see who flower goes for.
Blimey, how many chances has Bairstow had?
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Tough luck on Bresnan as his 1st century will now not count in the record books with the game being downgraded from 1st class status due to the Essex injury list - England have had to let them use 2 of our bowlers as they had 3 schoolboys in the field - all a bit of a farce.
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Bairstow, Morgan and Compton haven't cut the mustard when given their chance and its interesting to see who flower goes for.
Blimey, how many chances has Bairstow had?
Fair comment , maybe I should have said havent proven themselves yet at this level.
I'm sure you would welcome him back to Yorkshire in your title chase chris ;)
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It has to be Finn ahead of Bresnan for me.
Bresnan is a steady cricketer, not going to let you down. Finn has the ability to rip through any top order.
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It has to be Finn ahead of Bresnan for me.
Bresnan is a steady cricketer, not going to let you down. Finn has the ability to rip through any top order.
Exactly
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Bairstow, Morgan and Compton haven't cut the mustard when given their chance and its interesting to see who flower goes for.
Blimey, how many chances has Bairstow had?
Fair comment , maybe I should have said havent proven themselves yet at this level.
I'm sure you would welcome him back to Yorkshire in your title chase chris ;)
I'd love him back eastie! He's not played for the last month, I'm sure playing for Yorkshire is better practise than net time. He might not get his place back though!
-
Fawad Ahmed = Zola Budd
-
Fawad Ahmed = Zola Budd
Wondered where she went. Does he bowl barefoot?
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Not the best game for Bairstow.
-
I hope KP dropping further and further down the order is nothing more than looking at other batsmen.
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It has to be Finn ahead of Bresnan for me.
Bresnan is a steady cricketer, not going to let you down. Finn has the ability to rip through any top order.
Exactly
I'd advocate dropping Broad but I would only have to find another scapegoat.
Rankin did his reputation no harm today.
-
Great effort from Swann to knock them over with Onions.
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It has to be Finn ahead of Bresnan for me.
Bresnan is a steady cricketer, not going to let you down. Finn has the ability to rip through any top order.
Exactly
I'd advocate dropping Broad but I would only have to find another scapegoat.
Rankin did his reputation no harm today.
Broad gets a lot more stick than he deserves. He is inconsistent compared to Jimmy but he's still been in the top 10 in the world fairly consistently for the last 3-4 years.
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Yeah when Broad is firing he can go through teams.
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Fawad Ahmed = Zola Budd
Wondered where she went. Does he bowl barefoot?
Living in South Carolina which is strange as I would have thought she will want to be as far away as possible from Mary Decker!
-
I see Compton has made it fairly clear as to what he thinks of the decision to drop him.
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Great effort from Swann to knock them over with Onions.
Yeah. Just imagine how good he'd have been with a cricket ball.
-
I see Compton has made it fairly clear as to what he thinks of the decision to drop him.
In actions you mean or has he spoken out.
-
I see Compton has made it fairly clear as to what he thinks of the decision to drop him.
In actions you mean or has he spoken out.
He's spoken out:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/23174449
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Cant see his words doing him much good with those above , didnt realise he was 30 .
As flower says if there's a problem at 6 it doesn't mean Compton is the next cab off the rank - out of favour indeed.
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I was down New Road yesterday and the impression I formed was that Compton fails to manoeuvre the ball around for the 1's and 2's. I get the feeling this is mainly why the England management is not convinced about him.
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I don't care that he's 34 Napier deserves a shot at our Twenty20 side.
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I don't care that he's 34 Napier deserves a shot at our Twenty20 side.
Found it strange that he was batting at 9 tonight.
-
I don't care that he's 34 Napier deserves a shot at our Twenty20 side.
A few years ago, I thought that he was going to become a superstar of the one day game
-
Napier is very inconsistent. When he's good he's phenomenal. When he's bad he's truly dire.
His 152 in a T20 against Sussex earned him an IPL contract but he's generally been very unlucky with injuries.
If he could find a level of consistency then maybe he'd have been selected. His T20 strike rate is good at just shy of 145 but he averages just 15.35 which is a sure indication of his inconsistency.
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Onions included in 13 man squad.
-
Onions included in 13 man squad.
Only there to carry the drinks though :)
-
Holland vs Ireland.
http://www.icc-cricket.com/
-
Holland vs Ireland.
http://www.icc-cricket.com/
Ireland won by 88 runs. Thanks for that link.
-
OK time for Ashes predictions.
I'm going for 3 - 1 to England.
-
I reckon that'd be about right, provided we start performing with the bat again. We've been pretty soft for a while and need to start accumulating massive scores again.
-
2-2 Ashes retained.Batting is a worry.
-
2-2 Ashes retained.Batting is a worry.
Not a cat in hells chance of the Aussies drawing this series - come now lambshank sober up - England 3-0 , weather saving it from worse.
-
3-0 for me as well, Our bowling attack will be too good for them and there's looks erratic at best.
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I'll go 4-0 or 4-1. In fairness Pattinson is a fine young bowler and Siddle is much improved. They've no reputable spinner though and their batting line up looks brittle to say the least.
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This is a very good England team against a very poor Australian team - might be closer down under but we will win both series comfortably.
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Our batting has been on the slip for some time,cant see us scoring too heavily in enough tests to win by a wide margin.
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We'll win a couple, draw a couple. Oz won't win any. We'll start with a draw.
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Our batting has been on the slip for some time,cant see us scoring too heavily in enough tests to win by a wide margin.
Trott, kp, cook and bell will rip the Aussies piss poor bowling attack to shreds - only the weather will save them from a whitewash - good weather and we will blow them away.
-
Good news for mainland Europe based England fans.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/648743.html
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Two good bowling attacks but ours is better, especially if Anderson starts firing from the off, and we bat further down the order than the Aussies so can afford the odd blip up the order.
4-0 England with one draw due to rain, it's not going to stay like this all summer!
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Our batting has been on the slip for some time,cant see us scoring too heavily in enough tests to win by a wide margin.
Trott, kp, cook and bell will rip the Aussies piss poor bowling attack to shreds - only the weather will save them from a whitewash - good weather and we will blow them away.
I agree with Bert, I think the batting can be a bit flimsy when put under real pressure by consistent bowling. Haven't seen enough of the Aussie quicks to really judge, but it could be a weakness.
That said England clearly have a more reliable line up - I don't fancy anyone apart from Clarke and Watson (out for 40-60 every time) to make any runs in the Aussie line up.
I think Swan will be key, not just cause he's a great bowler and has loads of left-handers to line up, but because the spin department is where the Australia have really been poor for a few years.
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Last night's T20 at Essex looked like it was going to be a slog fest, with an easy pitch and small boundaries. It looked set up perfectly when Napier came in at three.
Unfortunately he top edged a first ball slog and was c & b.
As was mentioned earlier, he's too inconsistent.
-
Good news for mainland Europe based England fans.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/648743.html
Get a VPN free cricket.
-
Good news for mainland Europe based England fans.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/648743.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/648743.html)
Get a VPN free cricket.
Say again? :o
-
Good news for mainland Europe based England fans.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/648743.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/648743.html)
Get a VPN free cricket.
Say again? :o
Its allows you to watch stuff that is geo blocked.Ive done it so it must be easy to set up.
-
Good news for mainland Europe based England fans.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/648743.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/648743.html)
Get a VPN free cricket.
Say again? :o
Its allows you to watch stuff that is geo blocked.Ive done it so it must be easy to set up.
It's also why geo-blocking and and individual national broadcasting rights are outdated and need to be completely reconsidered.
-
Mindgames have started, Clarke said in his prematch press conference that he's glad Compton isn't playing as he looked very good.
-
Mindgames have started, Clarke said in his prematch press conference that he's glad Compton isn't playing as he looked very good.
Does he mean Denis rather than Nick ?
-
Good news for mainland Europe based England fans.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/648743.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/648743.html)
Get a VPN free cricket.
Say again? :o
Its allows you to watch stuff that is geo blocked.Ive done it so it must be easy to set up.
Including 3 pm premier games in England?
-
I really hope we pick Finn not Bresnan, picking Bresnan would send all the wrong messages. It would suggest we doubt the strength of our batting.
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I wouldn't pick Bresnan for his Test batting anyway.
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Just watched Howzat on the I player about Kerry Packer.Very bloody good.
-
I wouldn't pick Bresnan for his Test batting anyway.
No neither would I, but it's the reason England will pick him if we do. We should really pick Finn. In a four man attack you need four strike bowlers.
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Just watched Howzat on the I player about Kerry Packer.Very bloody good.
Good spot lambshank , forgot all about it - downloading now from sky on demand - will watch it tomorrow morning before taking my seat for the ashes .
See you here at 11am pwa - wear your lucky England pants !
Bumble reckons hes had a whisper Finn will play.
Any idea when episode 2 will be shown lambshank?
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15th 21.00hrs.
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15th 21.00hrs.
Cheers pal - just added to the planner !
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I wouldn't pick Bresnan for his Test batting anyway.
No neither would I, but it's the reason England will pick him if we do. We should really pick Finn. In a four man attack you need four strike bowlers.
Bresnan averages over 30 with the bat which is easily enough to bat at 7 or 8. He also offers good economy, can bowl long spells and takes enough wickets to be the 4th seamer. As I said earlier in the thread, the discussion should be around starting him or bairstow and is entirely based on whether we want the extra bowling option or not.
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By all accounts the ball has not swung at Trent Bridge this summer so I predict a dry square which will help scuff the ball and aid reverse swing.
If we win the toss I suspect that we will bat, Swann on a 4th innings pitch to a side packed full of left handers will be lethal.
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By all accounts the ball has not swung at Trent Bridge this summer so I predict a dry square which will help scuff the ball and aid reverse swing.
If we win the toss I suspect that we will bat, Swann on a 4th innings pitch to a side packed full of left handers will be lethal.
That's his home ground too isn't it?
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Got the whole Ashes booked off work. I'm ridiculously excited about this. Like a kid at Christmas or Eastie on Transfer Deadline Day.
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By all accounts the ball has not swung at Trent Bridge this summer so I predict a dry square which will help scuff the ball and aid reverse swing.
If we win the toss I suspect that we will bat, Swann on a 4th innings pitch to a side packed full of left handers will be lethal.
That's his home ground too isn't it?
Yep, and Broad as well.
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I wouldn't pick Bresnan for his Test batting anyway.
No neither would I, but it's the reason England will pick him if we do. We should really pick Finn. In a four man attack you need four strike bowlers.
Bresnan averages over 30 with the bat which is easily enough to bat at 7 or 8. He also offers good economy, can bowl long spells and takes enough wickets to be the 4th seamer. As I said earlier in the thread, the discussion should be around starting him or bairstow and is entirely based on whether we want the extra bowling option or not.
His figures are skewed by his top score being 91 against Bangladesh. Take that one score out and his average is 20.
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I wouldn't pick Bresnan for his Test batting anyway.
No neither would I, but it's the reason England will pick him if we do. We should really pick Finn. In a four man attack you need four strike bowlers.
Bresnan averages over 30 with the bat which is easily enough to bat at 7 or 8. He also offers good economy, can bowl long spells and takes enough wickets to be the 4th seamer. As I said earlier in the thread, the discussion should be around starting him or bairstow and is entirely based on whether we want the extra bowling option or not.
His figures are skewed by his top score being 91 against Bangladesh. Take that one score out and his average is 20.
That rule could be applied to any lower-middle order batsman though.
I prefer Bresnan, he's a solid workhorse and will bowl all day if you ask him just like Hoggard used to. I think that it will come down to who is best suited to the pitch and conditions at a particular ground. This is what they did to great effect during the Ashes in 2010/2011 in Oz.
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So Cobblers to Benteke, lets enjoy the cricket
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VFL - I think it could be applied to any batsman! Scoring big against Bangladesh but not South Africa, Australia, etc wouldn't keep an opener in the side for long. As you say, his bowling is not in question and some pitches will suit him. Seven is too high for him and Siddle, should he bat 8, will probably score more runs than Bres.
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Bring it on - lets win the toss , take advantage of a bit of cloud and blow those Aussies away !
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Got the whole Ashes booked off work. I'm ridiculously excited about this. Like a kid at Christmas or Eastie on Transfer Deadline Day.
You lucky toad, i am off till Monday but am touring York , scarborough and Whitby at the weekend - when I return to work i will be on 6-2 so will be home by 2-20 in my chair watching proceedings.
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@BeefyBotham: Very overcast at Trent Bridge this morning ! The light is a worry at the moment ! Don't need any delays...it's the Ashes ! #comeonengland
Interesting - hearing Aussies are going with 2 spinners.
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I wouldn't pick Bresnan for his Test batting anyway.
No neither would I, but it's the reason England will pick him if we do. We should really pick Finn. In a four man attack you need four strike bowlers.
Bresnan averages over 30 with the bat which is easily enough to bat at 7 or 8. He also offers good economy, can bowl long spells and takes enough wickets to be the 4th seamer. As I said earlier in the thread, the discussion should be around starting him or bairstow and is entirely based on whether we want the extra bowling option or not.
His figures are skewed by his top score being 91 against Bangladesh. Take that one score out and his average is 20.
Take out the top score of any player and their average would be lower though. Add to that he's only been at the crease 17 times in 18 matches but has 3 50s in that time and 3 not outs.
His record with the bat is pretty similar to Bairstow so does Bairstow offer enough in the field (given he's technically a wicketkeeper) to outdo the fielding and bowling Bresnan provides. As I've said earlier I personally believe Prior is too good to bat at 7, picking bresnan allows you to move Prior up to 6, gives you more options with the ball and doesn't significantly weaken the batting line up. It also takes some pressure off Root/Trott/KP having to come on and bowl a few overs when we're struggling.
Of course if Prior doesn't want to move up you probably have to pick Bairstow at 6
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I wasn't taking out his top score because it was his top score. I was ignoring it because of the quality of the opposition.
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Interesting- the Aussies have picked a 19 year old left-arm spinner to make his Test Debut- Ashton Agar
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Interesting- the Aussies have picked an left-arm spinner to make his Test Debut- Ashton Agar
19 years old and has played 10 first class matches.
If you listen closely you will hear the sound of the bottom of a barrel being scraped.
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Interesting they've picked Agar.
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I wasn't taking out his top score because it was his top score. I was ignoring it because of the quality of the opposition.
but you can't do that, Bangladesh have official test match status so scores against them count.
I like Finn and Bresnan and I think Bresnan has enough potential with the bat that we can consider him at 7 so both can play, it may backfire but I think it's worth a look after 2 and half years of struggling to replace Collingwood and seeing lots of middle order batsmen fail.
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Bairstow hasn't been given a fair crack yet and he deserves that.
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Interesting they've picked Agar.
How quick will he gel with the rest of the team ?
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TMS on the air
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Here we go - a good first session would be nice.
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TMS on the air
Might watch sky and listen to tms - i like boycott.
Bit overcast but England win the toss and choose to bat - the advantage of the Aussies facing swann batting last is a big one- bit worried about cloud cover - lets hope the Aussies dont swing it .
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Win the toss and bat and Finn playing, good stuff.
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Yep pitch won't last into day 5.
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Cloud cover bit worrying - we need a decent start , if the Aussies get some swing it cold be a tricky opening.
Swann will be licking his lips at the thought of Aussies batting last .
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Time to turn up with the bat.
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Two spinners in the Aussie team.
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Two spinners in the Aussie team.
Neither of great quality though- swann will take more wickets than both of those together.
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Here we go biatches... stick it to the Cons!
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Pattinson starts with a Harmison wide.
And another! Two for nought off zero balls.
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Swinging.
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Two buses and a pigeon already !!
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Pattinson starts with a Harmison wide.
As predicted by Blowers
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There's big swing here.
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Siddle's Test record is much better than I thought.
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Definitely plenty for the bowlers to work with. Swinging like a randy fifty-year old during a midlife crisis.
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Yeah if they get it right this could be tough.
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This is looking tricky now!
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Our bowlers would have enjoyed these conditions - although swann will enjoy bowling last on this wicket .
Need to get through to lunch without serious problems.
I feel this game will be over by Saturday .
Could do with root getting off the mark.
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Really enjoy blowers - classy .
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Really feel we are up against it with. The cloud cover - extremely important session.
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It's tough out there, we could do with this cloud getting lost.
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Did Jim Maxwell just call Michael Vaughan, "Rick" ?
(http://boxofficeboredom.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/wildthing-rick-vaughn-150x150.jpg)
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Pattinson looks dangerous.
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Cook gone, poor.
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oops
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It's been on the cards sadly , the conditions are a bowlers dream right now.
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Bugger. Cook is a big psychological wicket for them after the battering he gave them down there.
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Did Jim Maxwell just call Michael Vaughan, "Rick" ?
(http://boxofficeboredom.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/wildthing-rick-vaughn-150x150.jpg)
I thought he said prick.
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That was poor from Cook, chasing a wide one. Come on England we need to bat well here.
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silly shot by cook in these conditions, needs to be attrition cricket for the next hour.
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Our batting unit needs to turn up here.
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What would be good score on this wicket?
I think 300 would put us in an excellent position to win as the wicket will take spin pretty early.
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I agree, the wicket looks like it will crack up badly, 300 would be par, 350+ is advantage England.
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We should be looking at 350 +. If you win the toss and bat, that really is the minimum you should be looking at.
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We should be looking at 350 +. If you win the toss and bat, that really is the minimum you should be looking at.
Depending on the wicket that is, this wicket is not easy for batsmen.
I think the Aussies could struggle to get past 250 with our attack.
Certainly they won't want to chase over 180 batting last.
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We should be looking at 350 +. If you win the toss and bat, that really is the minimum you should be looking at.
Depending on the wicket that is, this wicket is not easy for batsmen.
I think the Aussies could struggle to get past 250 with our attack.
The wicket is fine for batting at the moment, little bit of seam movement but it's fine. The conditions make it tricky, but once you're in you should be getting runs on this pitch. Later in the game it'll probably break up, but we should be looking at 350+.
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Just got to watch Trott and Root's running, they've had a few issues in the past.
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Every time I hear them mention Agar on TMS I keep thinking of Hagar The Horrible off of the back of The S*n.
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Far cry from the Chappell brothers, marsh , Lillee and thomson when I first started watching cricket - this Aussie team holds no fears.
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Siddle's Test record is much better than I thought.
That first over showqs why he's not considered world class, the first boundary was off an absolutely rank delivery wide on leg, that's as simple a 4 as you'll see all match. Top class bowlers don't give runs like that so cheaply, or at least it's a lot rarer, Siddle has given those chances for his whole career. On top of that he, like Broad, tends to have purple patches where he takes lots of wickets in a match but he has far too many 0 and 1 fors to be the backbone of a bowling unit. Compare him to Anderson for example.
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Far cry from the Chappell brothers, marsh , Lillee and thomson when I first started watching cricket - this Aussie team holds no fears.
Give them time and Pattinson, Starc, Bird and Faulkner will be very very good.
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Agar on to bowl.
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Just got to watch Trott and Root's running, they've had a few issues in the past.
Not a massive issue in these conditions though, balls you can score from and often going to go all the way, not really the situation for nurdling but I agree, the running needs to be sensible, Trott seems to have a lot of issues running from the non-strikers end.
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Trott looks on his game today - he and kp can take this game away if they get in and are on form.
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Lets not jinx us Eastie!
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Andeson's bowling average is still over 30! His few years were up and down and it's affected his actual overall aveage. Anderson's ability should produce figures of 25 to do him real justice.
Siddle is around the 28 mark, they must play some rank teams.
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to back my point about the running up 10 boundaries in the first 50runs is crazy, particularly when you add in the 2 extras from the first over.
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This is definitely a 350+ pitch, you get a lot of value due to the speed of the outfield.
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Andeson's bowling average is still over 30! His few years were up and down and it's affected his actual overall aveage. Anderson's ability should produce figures of 25 to do him real justice.
Siddle is around the 28 mark, they must play some rank teams.
That always surprises me, I hope Anderson's average comes down.
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Andeson's bowling average is still over 30! His few years were up and down and it's affected his actual overall aveage. Anderson's ability should produce figures of 25 to do him real justice.
Siddle is around the 28 mark, they must play some rank teams.
Jimmy came into the team 4-5 years too early. His average was over 40 for a long time. His average in the last 4years is under 25 from what i remember.
EDIT
Just checked he averages 27 in the last 4 years.
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This is definitely a 350+ pitch, you get a lot of value due to the speed of the outfield.
Already some turn for the spinner in the opening session - i would happily take 300 , Aussies will struggle to get close to 250 at best.
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Not for me eastie, when you're 64-1 you need to be looking higher than that.
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Not for me eastie, when you're 64-1 you need to be looking higher than that.
Of course 400 plus would be nice but if we get 300 that will in my opinion be enough to establish a winning position., anything more is a welcome bonus.
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Heeeeeeeeeressssssss Geoffrey !!
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I still think 350+ puts us in credit, the pitch looks like it rewards good bowling and good batting, I just think we'll make better use of the former than the aussies have so far.
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Anderson had some "juvenile" years however in the last few years he has developed into an outstanding test match bowler. The reason England are going to win this series is that the team has 4 genuine world class players (Cook, Pietersen, Swan, Anderson) where as Aussies only have one (Clarke). These 4 will merit selection in all outstanding teams that have played test cricket in my memory except may be the Windies of the 80's.
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I'd add prior to that list as well, he's been exceptional for 2 years.
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Root gone. Great delivery.
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Root bowled by Siddle, that is a bad blow. I hope we're not getting into our getting starts and getting out mode.
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Anderson had some "juvenile" years however in the last few years he has developed into an outstanding test match bowler. The reason England are going to win this series is that the team has 4 genuine world class players (Cook, Pietersen, Swan, Anderson) where as Aussies only have one (Clarke). These 4 will merit selection in all outstanding teams that have played test cricket in my memory except may be the Windies of the 80's.
Surprised you left trott out of that list affers.
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I'd have had Bell in next ahead of Pietersen. We just need someone to hang around till lunchtime. There will be plenty of time for whacking them round the park later.
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Our batsmen need to get out of the habit of getting 20/30/40 odd and then getting out.
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Sums siddle up really, 4 overs for 27 and offering little threat in good bowling conditions then 1 ball of the next over is a peach that would do for far more experienced players than young Joe.
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I'd have had Bell in next ahead of Pietersen. We just need someone to hang around till lunchtime. There will be plenty of time for whacking them round the park later.
I'd tend to agree, if kp goes cheaply we could be in trouble - would have gone with bell and hoped kp would follow when the sun is out and cloud is gone after lunch.
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I don't like people being moved around the order. Kp is 4 because he's proven over a long period that he can score big runs batting at 4 in test match cricket, yes he likes to keep the scoring rate up but he's not a slogger with no technique.
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Yikes. That was close.
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Haddin could have caught KP there.
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Well, it wouldn't be The Ashes without a wobble. That was a puppy from Siddle to get rid of Root. It should be a different game after lunch if the cloud clears.
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I'd say that's our morning just about.
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I'll take that, if these 2 get through the first 20 mins after lunch the ball ill start going soft and then it's haymaking time. So glad The Ashes is here! And I've got the day off!!
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Not a brilliant morning, not a disastrous one either. Off to the pub for the rest of play.
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I'd say that's our morning just about.
the Aussies have bowled poorly in these conditions - they have missed the boat.
Kp could take this game away in the next session.
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Yep, englands session for me, poor shot from Cook, excellent delivery to Root and the chance against KP, can't really think of anything else from them, which is poor given the conditions. A bit of a stand from this pair hopefully now, especially if the clouds lift like expected.
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Surprised you left trott out of that list affers.
I really like Trott however I am talking about batsmen who can rub shoulders with Chappell brothers, Border, Hussey, Gower, Gavaskar, Dravid, Smith, Kallis, Ponting etc. I will leave Tendulkar and Richards out as they were special.
I don't think Trotty is in the above group just yet.
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Surprised you left trott out of that list affers.
I really like Trott however I am talking about batsmen who can rub shoulders with Chappell brothers, Border, Hussey, Gower, Gavaskar, Dravid, Smith, Kallis, Ponting etc. I will leave Tendulkar and Richards out as they were special.
I don't think Trotty is in the above group just yet.
I put up up there Sir Geoffrey,he doesn't give a shit what people think
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Watching Strauss on sky - he doesn't seem cut out for a media role to me .
Looks somewhat out of place and ill at ease.
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I put up up there Sir Geoffrey,he doesn't give a shit what people think
I only saw Sir Geoff in the tail end of his test career and there were not too many runs, he was always falling out with someone!
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I put up up there Sir Geoffrey,he doesn't give a shit what people think
I only saw Sir Geoff in the tail end of his test career and there were not too many runs, he was always falling out with someone!
Boycott was a class batsman but not a team player, he played for his own ends and was more bothered about his average than being part of a winning team.
I like listening to him as he speaks his mind but i imagine he would be a nightmare to captain .
Reminds me of the time he was batting and willis was vice captain when Botham went in to join boycott with the instructions to 'run the bastard out ' - Botham duly obliged and boycott stood shocked repeating ' what have you done , what have you done? '
Bothams infamous reply - 'I've run you out you "
The clip is on youtube - wonderful.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAeFm22xB7Q&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWAeFm22xB7Q
Bob Willis, the vice-captain, furious and frustrated by Boycott’s stonewalling, promoted young Ian Botham in the batting order with the now famous instruction, “Run the bugger out.”
Botham walked out and first told Chatfield exactly what he thought about his Mankaded effort. The fast-medium bowler had been struck on the temple by a Peter Lever delivery on his Test debut at Auckland in 1974-75, and had to be resuscitated on the pitch after his heart had stopped for a few seconds.
Now, Botham greeted him saying, “Be careful what you do son, you have already died in a Test match once.”
After this exchange of pleasantries, Botham pushed the ball to short extra cover and called Boycott for an impossible single, in the process running him out by miles. Boycott, stunned beyond belief, kept muttering “What have you done, what have you done?” To this Botham replied, “I’ve just run you out.”
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Watching Strauss on sky - he doesn't seem cut out for a media role to me .
Looks somewhat out of place and ill at ease.
Debut nerves perhaps? ;-)
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KP gone
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Kp goes - disappointing.
102-3 - yep i will take 300 anyday here.
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Pietersen gone, that is bad bad news. It's about time Bell turned up.
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Bell and Bairstow have a massive role to play now.
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I put up up there Sir Geoffrey,he doesn't give a shit what people think
I only saw Sir Geoff in the tail end of his test career and there were not too many runs, he was always falling out with someone!
Whenever SGB and Derek Randall were at the crease together, a run out was always on the cards
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Bell and Bairstow have a massive role to play now.
More so trott i feel, he needs to stay in and let the others play around him.
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2 of our 3 wickets have been loose shots.
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Right. Come on you Bears.
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The problem of getting starts and getting out is rearing its head again.
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Interesting they've picked Agar.
How quick will he gel with the rest of the team ?
Well I got it.
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No panic yet, we'll get 400, one of these two will score a ton. Bell is due a biggie, am I right in thinking he's only got two 50's an about his last 15 innings?
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Cloud doesn't seem to be lifting today .
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@Aggerscricket: So KP nicks the persevering Siddle to slip. They've conceded too many 4's, but Aus have had the better of it so far
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Cloud doesn't seem to be lifting today .
Sun poking it's head through here, and as the weatherman said the clouds will retreat east it might be a nice evening session in Nottingham.
You ALWAYS bat first in Test cricket but I reckon we'd have had them 6 or 7 down in these conditions if we'd put them in.
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I'm not sure I agree with him there, the one that got KP seemed to do a fair bit on the bounce, that we've not seen the ball misbehave a lot more is largely down to the bowling being pretty erratic. The line and length Siddle got for the delivery was perfect on this pitch but they've sent far too many down that were either too wide or on leg. That's why there's been lots of 4s, there have been too many easy shots on offer and we haven't really had to work to keep our rate up.
On an unrelated subject I think Root shoul be allowed to pin Warner down and wax that fucking stupid tache from his face.
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Shocking shocking way for Trott to get out. That's shocking.
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Another start and out.
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Cloud doesn't seem to be lifting today .
Sun poking it's head through here, and as the weatherman said the clouds will retreat east it might be a nice evening session in Nottingham.
You ALWAYS bat first in Test cricket but I reckon we'd have had them 6 or 7 down in these conditions if we'd put them in.
Totally agree dave, in fact if we had put them in I think they would be all out for less than 200.
As it is i still think 300 will be a winning position for us, not sure we will get that many though.
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That's 3 batsmen who have got themselves out, that's mentally poor.
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It really was a terrible shot from Trott, easily the worst of the lot, he should have been looking to bat through.
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I really think there is a problem with our batsmen getting starts and getting out. It seems to be happening too much to be a coincidence. There is a lot of pressure on Bell, Bairstow and Prior.
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I really think there is a problem with our batsmen getting starts and getting out. It seems to be happening too much to be a coincidence. There is a lot of pressure on Bell, Bairstow and Prior.
I don't hold out great hope for Bairstow to be honest - i think bell is a key player now if we want to post a respectable score.
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I really think there is a problem with our batsmen getting starts and getting out. It seems to be happening too much to be a coincidence. There is a lot of pressure on Bell, Bairstow and Prior.
I don't hold out great hope for Bairstow to be honest - i think bell is a key player now if we want to post a respectable score.
Well you need batsmen around him, and Bell is hardly in great form. They all need to turn up if we're going to get a reasonable score.
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Never seen it before but the spin meter thing is quite good, interesting see how much Swann gets compared to Agar. I'd love to see the result for Monty as well, as he always seems to get a lot of speed on the ball but isn't controlled enough to make the most of it.
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These two are doing well, but they have to go on.
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These two are doing well, but they have to go on.
Indeed.
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Bell start and out, poor again.
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You jinx pwa >:(
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These two are doing well, but they have to go on.
Paul...... STFU !!
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we need them to push us over 250 I reckon, Prior is usually handy for chunk of runs and Swann and Broad can add some between them but I'd really want a reasonable total on the board before the latter pair come in.
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We're continuing with our getting starts and getting out, this is really poor from our batsmen.
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Ah damnit, stream is behind you lot so i have to watch through the fingers for a minute now.
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That card makes poor reading, suggests we're mentally fragile.
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That card makes poor reading, suggests we're mentally fragile.
Or that the pitch is tough even if you're "in".
The Bell wicket is a good example, I don't think you can fault him too much, it was a good delivery that got the help it needed from the pitch.
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That card makes poor reading, suggests we're mentally fragile.
Or that the pitch is tough even if you're "in".
The Bell wicket is a good example, I don't think you can fault him too much, it was a good delivery that got the help it needed from the pitch.
True but 3 of the wickets were poor shots.
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Shocking Prior, really shocking.
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This is now an old-fashioned England collapse
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That was fucking idiotic. We'll be out tonight and this has been a really bad display.
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Both Bell and KP have gone to balls that turned off the bounce at something like 85mph. I don't think you can fault either of them or Root all that much, Trott's was a very poor shot and I still can't work out what Cook was doing for his.
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What did I tell you all about our batting.
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Both Bell and KP have gone to balls that turned off the bounce at something like 85mph. I don't think you can fault either of them or Root all that much, Trott's was a very poor shot and I still can't work out what Cook was doing for his.
Pietersen played very loosely and Prior's shocking was fucking atrocious.
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Our batsmen have completely lost the ability to build big innings. That shot from Prior given the situation was appalling and we'll be lucky to get 250 now.
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You jinx pwa >:(
Pot....Kettle!
These two are doing well, but they have to go on.
Indeed.
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We have turned up here thinking we're going to cruise this, very poor.
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Prior clearly just had a mental lapse, there's no other justification for throwing his bat at one like that.
I'm still not going to judge them too much until we see the aussie reply, I genuinely think there's a lot of reward for the bowlers if they get the line and length right. I think Jimmy could be frightening here.
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Too many of our batsmen have got themselves out and that's the worry. It's also been like that for a while now.
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We have turned up here thinking we're going to cruise this, very poor.
I think you're under estimating the pressure, it's the Ashes and it's the first day of the first test and we're notoriously slow starters. Add to that the overcast conditions today favour the bowlers and Siddle always troubles England.
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We have turned up here thinking we're going to cruise this, very poor.
I think you're under estimating the pressure, it's the Ashes and it's the first day of the first test and we're notoriously slow starters. Add to that the overcast conditions today favour the bowlers and Siddle always troubles England.
We should have bowled first then.
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We are poor starters in test series. Yes it's disappointing but let's reserve judgement until Jimmy & Co have a bowl.
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They still need something to bowl at. Regardless of how we bowl, there is an ongoing issue with our batsmen getting in and getting themselves out. Cook, Pietersen, Trott and Prior all did that.
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We have turned up here thinking we're going to cruise this, very poor.
I think you're under estimating the pressure, it's the Ashes and it's the first day of the first test and we're notoriously slow starters. Add to that the overcast conditions today favour the bowlers and Siddle always troubles England.
We should have bowled first then.
Then we're batting last on a deteriorating pitch.
We haven't played well but it's 2 sessions from 15, plenty of time to put things right.
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Ex player Pringle was on talk shite this morning. His view? Bat first. Why? It's cloudy and humid with hot weather to return by the end of the week.
Then he said siddle looked poor in build up games, what a judge!
He was a crap player in a crap era foe England and he has developed into a crap pundit too
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We need to get at least 250 here.
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Broad is making this pitch look decent.
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Jinxed him again.
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I don't blame Broad, but on the whole our batsmen have been very poor.
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Bairstow gone, that was a good ball.
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Actually scratch that, poor shot.
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No commentary in the pub. Is there still cloud cover? And is the consensus that England should've chosen to bowl or just that England are batting horrifically?
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Not going to be the whitewash we thought then. A good day for the Aussies.
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This has been a pathetic effort.
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Our batsmen should be embarrassed, they really should and frankly question marks have to be placed on Bell now. He didn't necassarily get himself out, but has what one century in 19 matches? It's up to our bowlers to dig us out again.
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Told you 300 would be excellent on this pitch- even 220 is not awful - the Aussies will struggle to reach 200- much closer game now though.
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I've said for a while it won't be a whitewash. Partly because of the English weather, partly because England always seem to throw in one atrocious performance per series, quite often the first test.
I'm sticking with my three-one prediction.
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Our batsmen should be embarrassed, they really should and frankly question marks have to be placed on Bell now. He didn't necassarily get himself out, but has what one century in 19 matches? It's up to our bowlers to dig us out again.
Disagree , conditions have favoured the bowlers - if we get an hour and half bowling tonight we could take 4 or more wickets.
220 is not a great score but its not terrible either on this wicket - very winnable still.
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Told you 300 would be excellent on this pitch- even 220 is not awful - the Aussies will struggle to reach 200- much closer game now though.
Sloppy batting has done this, it's not the pitch. We might well knock them over but 220 is poor.
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At least we get a crack at their top order with these conditions.
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At least we get a crack at their top order with these conditions.
Yep that's the only positive, we might well run through them. However whatever way you want to look at this, it has been a dreadful batting display and that's that.
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Right well hopefully our bowlers can save us, come on lads.
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Australia's openers will emerge in a few minutes. Still 29 overs left today. Meanwhile, here's a stat from Andy Zaltzman. "England fold like a self-origamiing paper pigeon. Last 4 wkts fall for 2: first time their last 4 have fallen for 2 or less since 1998-99."
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Told you 300 would be excellent on this pitch- even 220 is not awful - the Aussies will struggle to reach 200- much closer game now though.
Sloppy batting has done this, it's not the pitch. We might well knock them over but 220 is poor.
Overcast conditions is the biggest reason pwa- granted some poor batting too -lets blow them away.
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This is going to be an entertaining hour or so, much better than watching a side bowl with 500 on the board.
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Told you 300 would be excellent on this pitch- even 220 is not awful - the Aussies will struggle to reach 200- much closer game now though.
Sloppy batting has done this, it's not the pitch. We might well knock them over but 220 is poor.
Overcast conditions is the biggest reason pwa- granted some poor batting too -lets blow them away.
8 batsmen got themselves out. But yes lets home we blow them away.
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I knew we should have picked Bresnan.....
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Watson gone, edge to Finn. Needed that we hadn't started well.
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I knew we should have picked Bresnan.....
I'd hoped that the poster's curse would strike!!
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Cowan gone first ball! Now if we could get Clarke.
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Bye bye Aussies :)
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Now it gets interesting.
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It's more batsmen getting themselves out, hopefully Clarke will continue that trend.
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ha ha!
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Get Clarke quick England, we need him gone.
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What a delivery from Finn, how did that not get Clarke?!
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Good to see Finn's pace up.
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200 looks a long way off for the Aussies - plenty time left tonight - more wickets will fall.
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Need to get Clarke early.
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Need to get Clarke early.
You read my mind. He's a genuinely world class batsman.
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Rogers is looking solid.
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It's a bit of a concern that Broad is still off the field.
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Oh what a delivery Jimmy!!!! Clarke gone!
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Relax pwa- would you like a cigar ;)
55-7 by close of play :)
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Get in Jimmy!!!!
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As I said earlier - england didn't necessarily bat as badly as it seems, this pitch looks a dream for the bowlers.
Absolute pearler from jimmy though.
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As I said earlier - england didn't necessarily bat as badly as it seems, this pitch looks a dream for the bowlers.
Absolute pearler from jimmy though.
Spot on Paul e - bowlers dream conditions.
Just hope bad light doesn't come into play.
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As I said earlier - england didn't necessarily bat as badly as it seems, this pitch looks a dream for the bowlers.
Absolute pearler from jimmy though.
See I'm not sure it is at all, the batsmen have just played some shocking shots, Bell, Clarke, Root aside.
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Brilliant stuff from Jimmy, I'm having a celebratory orange.
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There have been 3 great balls to get wickets today. The rest were batsmen getting themselves out.
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As I said earlier - england didn't necessarily bat as badly as it seems, this pitch looks a dream for the bowlers.
Absolute pearler from jimmy though.
See I'm not sure it is at all, the batsmen have just played some shocking shots, Bell, Clarke, Root aside.
Because the ball has moved and swung.
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As I said earlier - england didn't necessarily bat as badly as it seems, this pitch looks a dream for the bowlers.
Absolute pearler from jimmy though.
See I'm not sure it is at all, the batsmen have just played some shocking shots, Bell, Clarke, Root aside.
Because the ball has moved and swung.
It has moved, but it has been poor batting as well.
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yeah pwa, I agree the shots have looked poor, butt when you have 9-10 test standard batsmen playing what look to be very poor shots in a day you have to consider how much the pitch and conditions are the cause. I said earlier I think Prior, Trott and Cook played poor shots but root, KP and Bell were beaten by the bowling/pitch. I haven't seen the last 4 wickets or the 2 finn wickets but Clarke was another where the bowling and conditions just did him completely.
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As I said earlier - england didn't necessarily bat as badly as it seems, this pitch looks a dream for the bowlers.
Absolute pearler from jimmy though.
See I'm not sure it is at all, the batsmen have just played some shocking shots, Bell, Clarke, Root aside.
I think the truth is somewhere between the two, the conditions have favoured the bowlers but the batsmen have, to a large part, failed to get their heads down and apply themselves.
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As I said earlier - england didn't necessarily bat as badly as it seems, this pitch looks a dream for the bowlers.
Absolute pearler from jimmy though.
See I'm not sure it is at all, the batsmen have just played some shocking shots, Bell, Clarke, Root aside.
I think the truth is somewhere between the two, the conditions have favoured the bowlers but the batsmen have, to a large part, failed to get their heads down and apply themselves.
Yeah I'd probably agree.
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If you are playing a shot and the the ball swings and moves as you are about to play then the shot looks bad - conditions have played a huge part in some of the poor looking strokes.
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it's absolutely a combination of things, batsmen wanting to get started (or kick on) dry pitch, overcast muggy conditions, some good deliveries as well.
I just think it's a bit harsh to keep calling it as poor shots, the pitch has played a big part.
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Would be great to get another couple out tonight .
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It would.
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It would.
Indeed .
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Broad not being out there is a worry.
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Broad not being out there is a worry.
Wouldnt risk him tonight now - give swann a go.
Can see this being over in 3 days maybe .
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Broad not being out there is a worry.
This is why I'd like to see Bresnan given a go as an all rounder. with Broad not on the pitch we look very light on bowling.
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How was broad injured - i was out having a meal with mrs east at the time?
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Hit on the shoulder batting.
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These two have settled it down here.
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Bowlers are tiring.
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Rogers is gone!
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One more tonight and we can sleep well.
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Think we won't get anymore tonight. Need to come out hard in the morning.
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Love the Ashes so much, especially when we beat them.
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It's finely balanced, these two have batted well and with Haddin to come. We need to come out hard in the morning.
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It's finely balanced, these two have batted well and with Haddin to come. We need to come out hard in the morning.
That's me every morning.
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Ha ha.
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What a day of cricket. Difficult to say who's on top at the moment.
The first session tomorrow will be vital; whichever side is on top by lunch will probably go on and win the test.
The first day of Ashes tests are always full of nerves; 17 wickets fell at Lords in 2005; 2009 we were 336-7 having been 299-2 and down under in 2010 we were all out for 260.
We need to be right at them tomorrow.
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Not home yet. What did they end on?
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73-4
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I knew the prick who text me 55-7 was fibbing.
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I thought Bairstow did will considering that was his first cricket for 35 days. I really can't understand why he hasn't been allowed to play any cricket in that time.
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Interesting morning ahead - if we can get them all out for around 170 or less we will be very much favourites to win this match - could be over by Saturday, if not before.
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Doesn't look like any cloud cover today, so could be tough to bowl. We need to knock them over quick.
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Doesn't look like any cloud cover today, so could be tough to bowl. We need to knock them over quick.
Blue sky is a worry - i wonder if swann can get much from the pitch - the Aussies may go after him.
Good that broad is fit.
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Haddin could be the key wicket here. With the cloud cover gone this could be hard work. At least we got rid of Clarke yesterday and the ball is only 21 overs old.
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Don't underestimate Siddle's batting either. This is far from done, we need a really good first session to be properly back in the game.
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I've got this horrible feeling that they'll bat beyond tea. Hope I'm wrong.
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I've got this horrible feeling that they'll bat beyond tea. Hope I'm wrong.
I think they'll bat into tomorrow with this weather.
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Early signs are not good.
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I've got this horrible feeling that they'll bat beyond tea. Hope I'm wrong.
I think they'll bat into tomorrow with this weather.
Not sure about that, we only need 2 wickets to get into the bowlers. If we'd only got 1-2 yesterday I'd be worried but as is it's very close.
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I think we look like we're in trouble here, especially as our bowling attack is hobbled. I hope I'm wrong, but I think they'll get at least a 100 run lead.
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That's a massive wicket, Hughes looks very nervous so we can really get at him and haddin now.
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Needed that, need Haddin and Hughes gone quick.
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This pair is a big threat to us.
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Get out!
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I refer back to my comment about not worrying about them batting out the day, they'll be desperate to bat until Lunch right now.
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I'm so envious of those of you who are at home watching. Stuck at work and following the test on Cricinfo. I was getting nervous in the first half hour but Jimmy and Swanny have swung matters back firmly in our direction!!
Was the Swann delivery as good as the description on Cricinfo suggests?
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I'm at work but I work in education so it's very quiet and I'm in Norway so I get the youtube stream... it's pretty dire today though.
The Swann delivery for the wicket is a beauty, got a hell of a lot of turns for a day 2 pitch.
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I am delighted to be wrong, this is great stuff. Need to knock them over quickly and then bat very very long.
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The Swann delivery was good but not a Warne-style ripper, as I imagine it may be being described. However, gloriously accurate.
Another good Jimmy delivery. No way could we get a 50+ lead on that first innings, no way.
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I've got this horrible feeling that they'll bat beyond tea. Hope I'm wrong.
I think they'll bat into tomorrow with this weather.
You reckon!
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Anderson is bowling a fantastic line to the lefties here. He's almost unplayable.
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I like that new gizmo showing the revolutions on the ball from Swann.
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Don't be dropping catches Swanny.
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I like that new gizmo showing the revolutions on the ball from Swann.
Yeah I mentioned that yesterday, it's great, he's getting 200-300 more revs on it than Agar yesterday and you can see the difference in the bounce...
And there goes Starc, Jimmy's line is just too good for the lower order here.
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I'm at work but I work in education so it's very quiet and I'm in Norway so I get the youtube stream... it's pretty dire today though.
The Swann delivery for the wicket is a beauty, got a hell of a lot of turns for a day 2 pitch.
I can't find it on here? http://www.youtube.com/ecbcricket (http://www.youtube.com/ecbcricket) What am I doing wrong?!
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I love Jimmy Anderson and I want to have his babies.
There I've said it.
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The Swann delivery was good but not a Warne-style ripper, as I imagine it may be being described. However, gloriously accurate.
Another good Jimmy delivery. No way could we get a 50+ lead on that first innings, no way.
looks like it could be closer to 100 than 50 right now. We've got them well on the ropes here.
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I've got this horrible feeling that they'll bat beyond tea. Hope I'm wrong.
I think they'll bat into tomorrow with this weather.
You reckon!
Shows what I know! :D
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I'm at work but I work in education so it's very quiet and I'm in Norway so I get the youtube stream... it's pretty dire today though.
The Swann delivery for the wicket is a beauty, got a hell of a lot of turns for a day 2 pitch.
I can't find it on here? http://www.youtube.com/ecbcricket (http://www.youtube.com/ecbcricket) What am I doing wrong?!
It's a bit hidden away.
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I love Jimmy Anderson and I want to have his babies.
There I've said it.
Seeing him bowl like this shows just how ridiculous his career average being over 30 is... sorry was, graphic has just shown that as of now it's 29.79
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I'm at work but I work in education so it's very quiet and I'm in Norway so I get the youtube stream... it's pretty dire today though.
The Swann delivery for the wicket is a beauty, got a hell of a lot of turns for a day 2 pitch.
I can't find it on here? http://www.youtube.com/ecbcricket (http://www.youtube.com/ecbcricket) What am I doing wrong?!
http://www.youtube.com/user/ecbcricket?v=nZR-rgHhA_k (http://www.youtube.com/user/ecbcricket?v=nZR-rgHhA_k)
It's a bit hidden away.
I thought it was that, but I get a message to say "video not available". I thought Germany was ok for coverage. Ah well.
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What an incredible 1st hour
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Did they really just review that? It was clearly dead straight, I guess wasting a review when you're already 117-8 doesn't really matter though.
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I'm in a devious mood. I really need to come up with a plausible excuse for me to go and work from home now (and watch the cricket).
Any suggestions?
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I'm in a devious mood. I really need to come up with a plausible excuse for me to go and work from home now (and watch the cricket).
Any suggestions?
Tell them you've been bit by a swann?
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I'm in a devious mood. I really need to come up with a plausible excuse for me to go and work from home now (and watch the cricket).
Any suggestions?
Tell your boss to fuck off and then sexually assault his secretary?
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I'm in a devious mood. I really need to come up with a plausible excuse for me to go and work from home now (and watch the cricket).
Any suggestions?
Tell your boss to fuck off and then sexually assault his secretary?
He's a she and is as devious/suspicious as me!
-
I'm in a devious mood. I really need to come up with a plausible excuse for me to go and work from home now (and watch the cricket).
Any suggestions?
Tell your boss to fuck off and then sexually assault his secretary?
He's a she and is as devious/suspicious as me!
the same principle works though, it's just you now have to sexually assault your boss and then tell her to fuck off afterwards. :D
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I'm in a devious mood. I really need to come up with a plausible excuse for me to go and work from home now (and watch the cricket).
Any suggestions?
Tell your boss to fuck off and then sexually assault his secretary?
He's a she and is as devious/suspicious as me!
the same principle works though, it's just you now have to sexually assault your boss and then tell her to fuck off afterwards. :D
Ok she's got a decent rack on her, I'll go cop a feel!
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This last wicket stand is getting annoying.
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For fucks sake Finn pitch it up.
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For fucks sake Finn pitch it up.
My thoughts precisely.
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For fucks sake Finn pitch it up.
My thoughts precisely.
Is it just me or are we the only test side who get delayed by stubborn last-wicket partnerships? FFS they've put on 45 already!!
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This is becoming quite damaging now from the position we had them in.
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For fucks sake Finn pitch it up.
My thoughts precisely.
The pitch has no pace and yet he persists with the short stuff. Madness.
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This is really poor stuff.
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We have let them off the hook a bit here, agar looks a lot better than an 11 though to be fair, I predict him to bat at 8 within a few years.
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Jimmy to replace Finn please.
Broad is on the field yet hasn't bowled. Whilst you could say that up to the 9th wicket we haven't needed him, it's beginning to look like his injury is worse than we thought.
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If Broad can't bowl, why is Bresnan not in the side? What's the point?
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This is utter dross Finn, throwing away our advantage.
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If Broad can't bowl, why is Bresnan not in the side? What's the point?
To be fair he was injured whilst batting so Bresnan had already been dropped.
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If Broad can't bowl, why is Bresnan not in the side? What's the point?
To be fair he was injured whilst batting so Bresnan had already been dropped.
Now this is true, and I had forgotten it, but I'm furious.
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I can see the sense in not using Broad right now, if there's any damage there let him rest for this innings ready to play a part in the 4th.
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If Broad can't bowl, why is Bresnan not in the side? What's the point?
To be fair he was injured whilst batting so Bresnan had already been dropped.
Now this is true, and I had forgotten it, but I'm furious.
It's bloody frustrating!
Why we are persisting with Finn when Jimmy is on the field is beyond me.
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I can see the sense in not using Broad right now, if there's any damage there let him rest for this innings ready to play a part in the 4th.
Good point well made.
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It's the tactics. Bowling short has haemorrhaged runs and threatened Agar about as much as marshmallow might threaten a nuclear submarine.
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We are completely throwing away our advantage.
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Why is Finn still bowling? Get Anderson back on.
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yep, we're bowling far too short and he looks comfortable dealing with it. I've never been a big fan of bouncing out the bowlers though.
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This is swinging the momentum back to the Aussies.
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This is swinging the momentum back to the Aussies.
Absolutely. After looking at a lead of nearly 100, we'll be lucky to escape with any lead at all here - and when we do bat, the Aussies will be feeling fired up and back into it.
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This last wicket stand has been absolutely disasterous for us. The innings(assuming we break this partnership today) will be more or less level and they have loads of momentum now. Shocking, shocking bowling from Finn ruining Anderson's great work.
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Shocking tactics from Cook and co.
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FFS England!
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To repeat what I said earlier, there's no way Agar is an 11, he's got very good feet and solid technique, I'd actually say he's a better batsman than he is a bowler on what he's shown this match.
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It's still appalling bowling and tactics. However it's clear this is an easy batting track and our batsmen have no excuse now.
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Absolutely fucking atrocious.
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This is an object lesson in letting your opponents off the hook. Farcical.
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Finn bowled really poorly in his spell which has set this up, Agar looks really confident now.
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We look mentally weak.
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A shambles, that's what it is.
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Pathetic tactics, pathetic bowling, pathetic captaincy. We would be one of the shittest test teams in the world without Jimmy.
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Cook you owe us a massive hundred for the utter shambles you've made of the last hour or so. Unbelievably bad.
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We have to end this now, this could kill us for this match in terms of mentality.
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This has been astonishingly poor. We should be out of sight, and now they have a lead and are surely favourites to win.
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I don't know what to think just yet, the reality is having seen the conditions I doubt many people would've seen 215-9 as us having bowled badly.
I also don't think australia had any thoughts of being in this position when they were 117-9
Finally I think we had no idea what to expect from their 11 and got our bowling plan to him totally wrong.
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Whichever way you look at it, to allow the last wicket partnership to put on an unbeaten 100 run partnership is appalling. The England team should get an absolute bollocking at lunch.
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Pathetic tactics, pathetic bowling, pathetic captaincy. We would be one of the shittest test teams in the world without Jimmy.
No we wouldn't, that's just silly.
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Whichever way you look at it, to allow the last wicket partnership to put on an unbeaten 100 run partnership is appalling. The England team should get an absolute bollocking at lunch.
I agree completely, I'm just not sure if this is a disaster in terms of the series, or even the match itself. What I'd be looking at from an England point of view is that there's no danger in the pitch now. yes we took a glut of wickets this morning but that was on the back of a worldy from Swann and as good a spell of swing bowling as you'll ever see from Jimmy, with the Pattinson wicket showing why aiming for the stumps against a genuine tail ender is a massively underused tactic. We need to get this last wicket quickly after lunch, that much is clear, but I'm sure England are a lot more confident of this pitch than they were at lunch yesterday.
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Our body language looks absolutely appalling as well, they need to have a long hard look at themselves and come out with a lot more effort and desire than they left the pitch with.
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This really is horrific.
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Fucking hell if Broad isn't fit to bowl, get him off the fucking pitch.
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why are we still bowling over the wicket Agar, he's very strong off his legs and the pitch is doing nothing outside off stump so lets angle in at him a little.
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This could be enough to win this Test match.
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I'm enjoying watching this lad bat, he doesn't look like a number 11.
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We look really ragged here, it's very frustrating.
Far too many deliveries into the legs of the lefties.
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He's doing fantastically well along with Hughes. However there are no excuses for us batting pathetically again now.
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Looks like I wasn't far off when I said Australia will have an 100 + run lead. This game is gone, short of a remarkable batting display from us.
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Swann has got a lot of joy out of the pitch here, If we can post 400+ (looks possible on this track now) He should have enough to work with in the last couple of days.
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Swann has got a lot of joy out of the pitch here, If we can post 400+ (looks possible on this track now) He should have enough to work with in the last couple of days.
I think we'll probably be mentally shot now and struggle to get a reasonable total, but who knows.
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For the sake of a couple of runs as a cricket fan I hope he gets his ton.
And gets out soon after.
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Swann has got a lot of joy out of the pitch here, If we can post 400+ (looks possible on this track now) He should have enough to work with in the last couple of days.
I think we'll probably be mentally shot now and struggle to get a reasonable total, but who knows.
I'm not so sure, as I said earlier, they'll have seen how lifeless the pitch has become, if that doesn't give them the confidence to get big scores then nothing will.
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He's gone for 98, well played Agar and Hughes. However we need a fucking miracle now and to show some guts.
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At last......well batted Ashton Agar you Aussie bastard
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And the Bears are 37-3 what a shit day so far.
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Gutted for him, would love to have seen him get his century, he looks like he isn't too disappointed though.
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We need 400 + now. Time to front up batsmen, you were pathetic in the first innings and you owe us now.
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He's gone for 98, well played Agar and Hughes. However we need a fucking miracle now and to show some guts.
As Jim & Glenn were saying, England are too regimented in their tactics. Why didn't they chuck a few bouncers at Agar this morning ?
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Target no.1 has to be knock off the 65 deficit without loss
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He's gone for 98, well played Agar and Hughes. However we need a fucking miracle now and to show some guts.
As Jim & Glenn were saying, England are too regimented in their tactics. Why didn't they chuck a few bouncers at Agar this morning ?
We are always like that, massively lack imagination. We need to have a long look at how we approach things when it's not going well. Like I said our batsmen now need to get a massive total or we're done.
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Gutted for him, would love to have seen him get his century, he looks like he isn't too disappointed though.
From what I've seen I don't think he'll be regretting his missed 100 in test cricket for long. He's far too good to bat 11, I said 8 earlier, I'm going to revise that to 5 or 6 - he has good soft hands, moves well in the crease and doesn't get ruffled by the short stuff, he'll be a good all rounder in a few years.
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He's gone for 98, well played Agar and Hughes. However we need a fucking miracle now and to show some guts.
As Jim & Glenn were saying, England are too regimented in their tactics. Why didn't they chuck a few bouncers at Agar this morning ?
Probably because the pitch is very poor and has no pace.
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As a quick aside from the test, in his final first class innings of his career a certain R T Ponting is currently 129 not out for Surrey at the Oval.
A great way for a player of his stature to finish.....hope he goes on to at least get 150
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Yep well played Ricky.
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Root gone, here we go. We need a massive stand from Trott and Cook now.
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Trott gone. This is fucking embarrassing.
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Well, that wasn't the biggest stand in the world.
11-2
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This is desperate from England, our much vaunted batting line up is not turning up.
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I hope everyone who was talking about an easy England win in this series has realised that, when it comes to the Ashes, you should never take anything for granted.
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Classy from Starc to shout like a wild chimp man in Trott's face after the decision was overturned. I could have sworn there was a nick on that, but there we are.
Anyway, I'd be stunned if we don't lose this match now.
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This is desperate from England, our much vaunted batting line up is not turning up.
I said from the start the batting is awful sorry to be right for a change.
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This batting line up as a whole have not been getting good enough totals for a while now. We have come in under prepared and have completely underestimated the Australians. We look an utter shambles.
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We need a massive reaction from the batsmen remaining now. They need to look very hard at the attitude they adopt, or we'll be 1-0 down in this series and massively under pressure.
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Fucking hell a hot spot technical is the reason Trott wasn't saved, what a fucking shambles.
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Not a lot has been made of it but I really thought Starc's celebration was uncalled for. The kind of needless cocky cockness which makes you hope for a big failure in his life.
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Fucking hell a hot spot technical is the reason Trott wasn't saved, what a fucking shambles.
For me the technology has got to be better than that!
So we didn't have side-on Hot Spot for Trott because it was prepared to show the catch behind for the Root dismissal and you can't play and record Hot Spot at the same time...
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Starc is a fucking bellend.
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Not a lot has been made of it but I really thought Starc's celebration was uncalled for. The kind of needless cocky cockness which makes you hope for a big failure in his life.
We've dished out enough to the Aussies in the last few series.
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Surely if hot spot wasn't working, then the umpire's decision should have stood and Australia get their review back.
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Not a lot has been made of it but I really thought Starc's celebration was uncalled for. The kind of needless cocky cockness which makes you hope for a big failure in his life.
We've dished out enough to the Aussies in the last few series.
But like that? I'm not sure. I'm not sure even Warne used to do that. It was like Merv Hughes on a bad day.
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Makes for a good day tomorrow, come on England.
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Agar had a brilliant day, but the bowling at him and Hughes was nothing short of pathetic. Finn in particular looked worse than a club cricketer.
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Cook and KP did excellently in the last session, we could easily have crumbled. It's good to see KP knuckle down and try and play a proper innings. We need to bat long tomorrow.
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By all accounts Agar batted at number 3 for Henley during his time there. He is no way a number 11 but the bowling was far too short at him. A very strange Test this one.
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I hope we've learned some lessons from our bowling at Agar today.
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Just catching up.
Trott plays and think he Knicks the ball on to his pad.
The on field umpire agrees ns gives not out.
The Aussies refer it and the video evidence is inconclusive. A key piece of evidence is not available.
.....and he's given out?
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Just catching up.
Trott plays and think he Knicks the ball on to his pad.
The on field umpire agrees ns gives not out.
The Aussies refer it and the video evidence is inconclusive. A key piece of evidence is not available.
.....and he's given out?
Basically yes..........the hotspot/snicko machine was not ready
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Could've sworn I'd already posted on here about the Trott dismissal but I can't see it anywhere. It was a shocking decision to overturn the onfield umpire in that situation. I just can't work out how the 3rd Umpire thinks that is the right call.
The default of the review system is that if the evidence can't conclusively prove that the umpire was wrong then the umpire's decision is upheld. Given the umpire gave not out on the basis of it taking a nick the requirement was for the 3rd umpire to prove beyond doubt that there was no nick, which he couldn't do without hotspot. I genuinely think England should call an appeal on that one regardless of what happens in the game because the review system is fairly clear in it's guidelines and this seems a clear failure to adhere to those.
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Could've sworn I'd already posted on here about the Trott dismissal but I can't see it anywhere. It was a shocking decision to overturn the onfield umpire in that situation. I just can't work out how the 3rd Umpire thinks that is the right call.
The default of the review system is that if the evidence can't conclusively prove that the umpire was wrong then the umpire's decision is upheld. Given the umpire gave not out on the basis of it taking a nick the requirement was for the 3rd umpire to prove beyond doubt that there was no nick, which he couldn't do without hotspot. I genuinely think England should call an appeal on that one regardless of what happens in the game because the review system is fairly clear in it's guidelines and this seems a clear failure to adhere to those.
Completely agree, if the technology isn't ALL available you can't use it. That decision should have stayed with the umpire and the Aussies should have kept their review. Combine with the fact the Agar should have been out stumped, Erasmus had a poor day.
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A Cook double century and a Pietersen century would be nice tomorrow!
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I'd really like to see the stumping one, I didn't see that live but england seem pretty miffed about it.
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I'd really like to see the stumping one, I didn't see that live but england seem pretty miffed about it.
I think his foot might have been in the air and it wasn't behind the line.
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Not managed to see much today but it was another day of compelling test cricket. England are in charge and a lead of 250 plus will be enough.
It was a pleasure to hear about Agar's performance. This is the great thing about this game. A possible future gem for world of cricket has been found. Big shame that the boy didn't complete his 100 but it appears that he will develop into a decent batter so will get many more opportunities.
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I'd really like to see the stumping one, I didn't see that live but england seem pretty miffed about it.
I think his foot might have been in the air and it wasn't behind the line.
It was fair decision based on technology limitation. Just remember without relying on video replays any umpire would never have given that.
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I'd really like to see the stumping one, I didn't see that live but england seem pretty miffed about it.
I think his foot might have been in the air and it wasn't behind the line.
It was fair decision based on technology limitation. Just remember without relying on video replays any umpire would never have given that.
I don't think the technology was overly limited in that case, I think it looked out.
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Regardless he played great. We now need KP and Cook to ideally be there at tea tomorrow.
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That stumping is definitely definitely out.
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Erasmus's decisions were fucking shocking and could cost us the game.
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I fucking love The Ashes.
Agar was out stumped on six, should have got a ton, I almost didn't want to celebrate the catch when he holed out to Swann.
We need a lead of 250, I still reckon we are favorites.
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Erasmus's decisions were fucking shocking and could cost us the game.
Yep nail on head.
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Went to Trent Bridge toady (nice to see an AVFC flag there!!) and although I was sat high up and far from the screens in the stadium, it was clear from the replays shown on them that Agar was out and Trott wasn't. Two really poor decisions that could be very costly for England. That said, Agar played brilliantly (as did Hughes) and it was a shame he didn't get his century. We've got to bat really well to get something from this game now.
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I'm still struggling to come to terms with how we let a position of total dominance slip like we did yesterday, Finn wants bloody shooting for that so called spell of bowling. Cooks captaincy was a worry when the chips were down also. Well played Agar though, think that's Nathan Lyon's Test career over.
Thing is with Erasmus, he's normally a pretty good, solid umpire. I can kind of see why he didn't give the stumping out - it was really close so I suppose if he decides to give the batsman the benefit of the doubt then fair enough. Which makes the Trott decision all the worse - he clearly hit it on the replay - piss poor quite frankly and no doubt already game changing decisions that have both gone against us.
I think i'd rather be in the Aussies shoes though at the moment, not by much but England cannot afford any slip ups from here on in. We need to put the pressure back on them and at effectively 15-2 it's still very much on us.
They won't want to chase much more than 200 with Anderson and Swann in the mood again.
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I'm still struggling to come to terms with how we let a position of total dominance slip like we did yesterday, Finn wants bloody shooting for that so called spell of bowling. Cooks captaincy was a worry when the chips were down also. Well played Agar though, think that's Nathan Lyon's Test career over.
Thing is with Erasmus, he's normally a pretty good, solid umpire. I can kind of see why he didn't give the stumping out - it was really close so I suppose if he decides to give the batsman the benefit of the doubt then fair enough. Which makes the Trott decision all the worse - he clearly hit it on the replay - piss poor quite frankly and no doubt already game changing decisions that have both gone against us.
I think i'd rather be in the Aussies shoes though at the moment, not by much but England cannot afford any slip ups from here on in. We need to put the pressure back on them and at effectively 15-2 it's still very much on us.
They won't want to chase much more than 200 with Anderson and Swann in the mood again.
Looking at some of the turn Swann got and watching that spell from Jimmy again I agree a lead of 200 is competitive, closer to 300 and becomes our game to lose. We need this pair to bat until lunch really, do that with another 100 on the board and we'll be in a good position.
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Erasmus's decisions were fucking shocking and could cost us the game.
Yep nail on head.
The decision delivered several disappointments is one go. Over ruled a very good decision by Aleem Dar who nearly always gets this right. Gave huge momentum to Aussies. Undermined confidence in referrals. Ruined Trott's day etc etc
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There's certainly been a lot of twists and turns in the first two days of the test. First one side is on top then the other.
A morning of application from Cook and KP and then kick on after lunch. With three days left we should look to bat until at least lunch tomorrow and leave them 5 sessions to bat out which is a huge ask.
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We need to lose no more than one wicket by tea. We also need this cloud to clear.
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Erasmus's decisions were fucking shocking and could cost us the game.
Yep nail on head.
The decision delivered several disappointments is one go. Over ruled a very good decision by Aleem Dar who nearly always gets this right. Gave huge momentum to Aussies. Undermined confidence in referrals. Ruined Trott's day etc etc
Shocking situation and the ICC need to clarify the official line. Doesn't help Trott though who recorded his first duck in tests.
Surely Sky must have backup systems? What if Hawkeye/Hotspot packed up during the game?
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Of course we can look forward to the clarity of technology in football very soon as well.
I have been following the match at work via the net and TMS, and it has been incredible. Aggers and Boycott were tremendous yesterday during the double England dismissal, Aggers breathless with excitement while Boycott played it all down with his cries of "it's creekeet, it's just creekeeet".
I should catch some of the afternoon sessions in the pub today but I will miss the radio coverage.
It's at times like this I feel sorry for people who don't like sport.
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I'm trying, in vain, to generate a bit of interest in the ashes aomngst my norwegian co-workers, I knew I was onto a loser by the looks on their faces when I said it was scheduled to finish on sunday.
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I'm trying, in vain, to generate a bit of interest in the ashes aomngst my norwegian co-workers, I knew I was onto a loser by the looks on their faces when I said it was scheduled to finish on sunday.
Don't give up on that missionary work Paul, no nation can truly call itself civilised until it embraces cricket
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We need to lose no more than one wicket by tea. We also need this cloud to clear.
We should have a lead pushing close to 200 if we bat up till tea. Ideal you would like to see Cook drop anchor and stick around for the entire day and maybe even tomorrow if possible.
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We need to lose no more than one wicket by tea. We also need this cloud to clear.
We should have a lead pushing close to 200 if we bat up till tea. Ideal you would like to see Cook drop anchor and stick around for the entire day and maybe even tomorrow if possible.
I agree, I think we need to set around about 300.
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It's at times like this I feel sorry for people who don't like sport.
I find it very difficult do deal with such people
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If we score 350 plus we'll win. Even 300 I'd feel confident. We're still well in this despite our (and an honourable mention for the 3rd umpire) best efforts to chuck it away.
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I really like the way that Jim Maxwell says " De-boo"
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Coming up at lunch on TMS, "Blowers will be singing and rapping live" :o
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I really like the way that Jim Maxwell says " De-boo"
On Wednesday and Thursday I've listened to TMS on my way home from work. They stick Jim Maxwell on just before 6pm so he can give the spiel about long wave listeners and the shipping forecast. He's brilliant at it! You can really sense his feelings of incredulity that in this digital age we still cut the coverage for the ships.
He's my second favourite overseas commentator after Tony Cozier.
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Fuck KP gone and was looking good. We now need the middle order to turn up. Bell you owe us a score.
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Yep time for Bell to find his form again. Him, Bairstow and Prior are key.
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It's time the middle order turned up.
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I would say that Cook is the key - if he is there all day plus handy contributions from others then we should be OK....after all a lot of time left in this Test match. If Bell can play shots like that for rest of day as well we will be sorted!!!
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Shit!!!
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Cook gone and that's the game I imagine. Once again batsmen getting starts and getting out. Short of a brilliant performance by the middle and lower order we are stuffed.
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Bell's made a good start, very steady. It's him and the rest, I feel, or England are fucked.
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The wicket is crumbling, if we can somehow get a lead of 200 we'll win this.
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The wicket is crumbling, if we can somehow get a lead of 200 we'll win this.
I agree, this is going to horrid to bat on tomorrow, it will keep low and have variable pace of the floor, and the spinners are going to have it turning sideways. We need to get some big runs on the board and try to bat until Lunch tomorrow, if we do that we'll be big favourites, need Bell to earn his place now though, he's a quality batsman but his form has been poor and he'll be under pressure if he doesn't get us out of this.
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Sounds like it's hooping all over the place and staying low. We desperately need to get a lead of just over 200 I'd say and then who knows.
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MC Blowers in da house, f'shizzle
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If my auntie had balls etc, but that stumping decision yesterday looks lkke it will be crucial.
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We desperately need to set over 200, and hope that the bowlers perform through the entire Aussie innings. It does however look like we'll be 1-0 down and need to have a look at our performance levels.
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We really do need to look at why our players are getting 30/40/50/60s and not going on to get big scores. You need at least one big score to build a good innings.
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We really do need to look at why our players are getting 30/40/50/60s and not going on to get big scores. You need at least one big score to build a good innings.
I'm sure they must be looking at it. They have so many support staff and analysts that they must have highlighted it. If not why are they there? Gooch needs to earn his corn as batting coach.
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We really do need to look at why our players are getting 30/40/50/60s and not going on to get big scores. You need at least one big score to build a good innings.
It seems to me that England's best results seem to come when they can see a win in sight after four days. They're unused to Test cricket played at a Test cricket pace, so the opposition slow the over rate, make the batsmen fidgety and lose their concentration.
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We really do need to look at why our players are getting 30/40/50/60s and not going on to get big scores. You need at least one big score to build a good innings.
I heard someone on TMS yesterday, Vaughan I think, saying it was already playing like a fourth day pitch. I wouldn't be pressing the panic button just yet, Cook, Trott etc haven't become bad players all of a sudden.
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The new ball is due. It will be a vital passage of play. We need to see it off without losing any more wickets.
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This is not going well
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Belly surviving that LBW review could have a major impact on outcome of this game with Bairstow going straight after. Gonna be tight - yep need another 90+ runs.
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We really do need to look at why our players are getting 30/40/50/60s and not going on to get big scores. You need at least one big score to build a good innings.
I heard someone on TMS yesterday, Vaughan I think, saying it was already playing like a fourth day pitch. I wouldn't be pressing the panic button just yet, Cook, Trott etc haven't become bad players all of a sudden.
I'm sure there was some talk that the pitch was ready last weekend. There was some reason why it was so advanced, but I can't remember why.
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Bairstow shouldn't be playing, getting out like that is terrible.
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Actually possibly a bit harsh, but he needs to contribute a lot more. We are massively reliant on Bell and Prior doing something now.
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This is why I question whether Bresnan could fill in ahead of Bairstow. I think he'd score a similar number of runs at a similar rate but offers the opportunity to take off a poorly performing Finn, or cover for an injured Broad.
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Am I alone in thinking that the Barmy Army's "whoooo we are", etc, chant is fucking shite?
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This is why I question whether Bresnan could fill in ahead of Bairstow. I think he'd score a similar number of runs at a similar rate but offers the opportunity to take off a poorly performing Finn, or cover for an injured Broad.
The England management like playing Prior at 7 if you bring Bresnan in you cant really expect him to come in at 6 - asking a bit much of him. Look at Prior already this innings speeding things up and playing some shots....i think he is happy at 7.
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about 70 away from a competitive score here, really need Bell to hang around now though, If he can form a couple of decent partnerships we can get into a really strong position, much over 250 and I think it'll be too much for them, the pitch is our friend right now.
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Am I alone in thinking that the Barmy Army's "whoooo we are", etc, chant is fucking shite?
Yes.
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about 70 away from a competitive score here, really need Bell to hang around now though, If he can form a couple of decent partnerships we can get into a really strong position, much over 250 and I think it'll be too much for them, the pitch is our friend right now.
The Aussies are notoriously bad at chasing down a 4th innings target. They won't fancy anything above 200. If we can eke out another 150 then it's game on.
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about 70 away from a competitive score here, really need Bell to hang around now though, If he can form a couple of decent partnerships we can get into a really strong position, much over 250 and I think it'll be too much for them, the pitch is our friend right now.
The Aussies are notoriously bad at chasing down a 4th innings target. They won't fancy anything above 200. If we can eke out another 150 then it's game on.
eek indeed :D
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Some real rough outside leg stump at the end Agar is bowling to. Ideal for Swnn bowling at left handers.
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You have to think that Bell and Prior are well in now, with Prior in particular doing well accelerating the score. Only 57 needed for the 200 and I fancy these pair to see it through. If they can do that, I fancy Prior, Swann and Broad to end the day swinging and we may finish with a lead of 230-240.
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One thing that needs considering is what the Second Test is going to look like. I think by-and-large England have made themselves look bad rather than Australia causing any problems. In fact, Agar aside, there's nothing for the Aussies to crow about in this match at all.
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Oh bollocks, Prior's gone.
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Need the tail to do some damage like theirs did.
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We need Bell to step up with a ton now to stand a chance of winning this. I think a lead of 240/250 might be enough.
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Every time I think we're looking alright again another wicket falls
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Broad? Home ground, but spent most of yesterday clutching his arm...I have no idea how this match is going to go now.
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Broad really owes us an innings. He's been far too ordinary with the bat for too long.
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Broad really owes us an innings. He's been far too ordinary with the bat for too long.
When was his last big score? In fact, I don't think we necessarily need a 'big' score from Broad as much as we need him to hang around and have Bell go on to get his century. But either way, if he's still there at the close it'll have been a good knock.
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Broad really owes us an innings. He's been far too ordinary with the bat for too long.
When was his last big score? In fact, I don't think we necessarily need a 'big' score from Broad as much as we need him to hang around and have Bell go on to get his century. But either way, if he's still there at the close it'll have been a good knock.
Its 31 tests since he got a 50, against Pakistan in Abu Dhabi in January 2012.
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Broad really owes us an innings. He's been far too ordinary with the bat for too long.
When was his last big score? In fact, I don't think we necessarily need a 'big' score from Broad as much as we need him to hang around and have Bell go on to get his century. But either way, if he's still there at the close it'll have been a good knock.
Its 31 tests since he got a 50, against Pakistan in Abu Dhabi in January 2012.
Jeez, that's crap for his role in the order. But it's also shocking how that's 18 months ago and we've played 31 Tests since.
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We're 100 shy of having enough to knock them over in my opinion.
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Of that 100, I think we'll get seventy or so.
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Broad really owes us an innings. He's been far too ordinary with the bat for too long.
When was his last big score? In fact, I don't think we necessarily need a 'big' score from Broad as much as we need him to hang around and have Bell go on to get his century. But either way, if he's still there at the close it'll have been a good knock.
Its 31 tests since he got a 50, against Pakistan in Abu Dhabi in January 2012.
Jeez, that's crap for his role in the order. But it's also shocking how that's 18 months ago and we've played 31 Tests since.
Sorry the heat has got to me! 31 innings across 16 tests and there are a few DNB's scattered around. Still poor though.
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Ah, I thought that sounded wrong! I'm never quite sure about Broad - sometimes he's a passenger with both bat and ball. But he seems to take an important wicket or two which takes the heat off him. I'd imagine as an opposition cricketer they see him as more of a dangerman than we do.
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Ah, I thought that sounded wrong! I'm never quite sure about Broad - sometimes he's a passenger with both bat and ball. But he seems to take an important wicket or two which takes the heat off him. I'd imagine as an opposition cricketer they see him as more of a dangerman than we do.
He has the attributes to be a solid all rounder, but his batting has lacked and he never kicked on from that century against Pakistan. Let's hope he can hang around this evening. Cracking test match.
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did we just run 4, don't see that often!
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run em up
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This is Ian Bells best for quite some time.
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This is the 200 lead coming up. Anything after this is going to give the Aussies problems. If these two stay in for another 45-60 mins and Swann gives an effective cameo I think 250 will be a superb lead.
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It's been a very mature performance from Bell, keeping it safe and steady, I just hope he keeps it up and bats through, If he does I reckkon we're looking at at least another 70-80 for a lead well over 250.
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Play sensibly Broad.
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I'm listening to the test match special via lap top there was almost but not quite a 'leg over moment' with Blofeld coming out with "blowjob". Tufnell has held it together, not so the production team.
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Don't get frustrated Broad, you'll got all the time.
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Reagrdless of what happens from here Broad has come in and done a good job so far, getting the lead over 200 was an important milestone, doing it with wickets intact and the guy at the other end looking fairly set deserves some credit, if he can go on and get a 50 then great it will put us in a really good position but lets not be too upset if that doesn't happen.
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He certainly has, more responsible. Needs to keep it down now though, we need as many as we can get.
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Just checked out for half an hour, what did I miss?
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No more of those shots Broad please.
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Ths has been a really important partnership now, Australia will be starting to feel a bit worried looking at the scoreboard
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Yeah it is.
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I'd love Bell to get his ton and if Broad can steady himself a bit more he can get 50ish. Broad's putting in a good effort but really has to steady himself and pick out the right kind of ball to chase.
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Calm Broad.
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Ha ha Broad was blatantly out there.
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Thats a shocker by Aleem Dar and to be honest Broad as well for not walking....so obviously out.
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That makes up for the stumping yesterday, Ozzies are still 2-1 up on the lucky decisions.
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Oh well one shocking decision against Australia, that makes up for 2 against us.
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Broad knows he hit that and should have walked.
Still, 300 up now. Hang in there for the remaining overs boys.
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Broad knows he hit that and should have walked.
Still, 300 up now. Hang in there for the remaining overs boys.
Bollocks to that, I just remember when Trott clearly hit it and was given out and Mitchell Starc screamed in his face.
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Ooh!! I reckon Broad should have walked there, he must have known he'd hit that.
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Broad knows he hit that and should have walked.
Though you have to admire him just standing his ground as if nothing happened!!
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shame
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Broad knows he hit that and should have walked.
Though you have to admire him just standing his ground as if nothing happened!!
Nothing to admire, it's the cricket equivalent of a Ashley Young swan dive. I don't like it and never will.
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As I said that's payback for the two shockers against us.
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Players don't walk any more, I won't fault Broad for not doing it, after all, is it any worse than what starc did yesterday? Or than Pattinson reviewing his blatent lbw yesterday
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Players don't walk any more, I won't fault Broad for not doing it, after all, is it any worse than what starc did yesterday? Or than Pattinson reviewing his blatent lbw yesterday
Precisely.
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Broad knows he hit that and should have walked.
Though you have to admire him just standing his ground as if nothing happened!!
Nothing to admire, it's the cricket equivalent of a Ashley Young swan dive. I don't like it and never will.
I know what you mean - admire was probably the wrong word - try marvel, instead.
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Players don't walk any more, I won't fault Broad for not doing it, after all, is it any worse than what starc did yesterday? Or than Pattinson reviewing his blatent lbw yesterday
I know what you're saying and in this day it's the batsman's prerogative to walk or not but in the spirit of the game you should walk, it's cricket.
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As I said, on the replay screen Agar could see he was out and he didn't walk? Trott clearly hit the ball, but the Aussies reviewed. It's the nature of the game.
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So was Bairstow wrong to walk?
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As I said, on the replay screen Agar could see he was out and he didn't walk? Trott clearly hit the ball, but the Aussies reviewed. It's the nature of the game.
Agar is 19 in his first test match. Broad has been around a while. Besides, just because one team does one thing doesn't mean we should do the same, we should be bigger than that.
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Players don't walk any more, I won't fault Broad for not doing it, after all, is it any worse than what starc did yesterday? Or than Pattinson reviewing his blatent lbw yesterday
Didn't see the Star one (remind me), but Pattinson can't have absolutely known he was lbw so it was worth a review, that isn't cheating, it's using the technology we now have. Broad must have known he'd hit that and should have walked.
Commentators know talking, about Broad's "courage and audacity" for not walking, bollocks, he has cheated, he knows it and we know it.
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I appreciate it's not ideal, but these things happen. Before the Aussies start going on about spirit of the game, they should look at Mitchell Starc yesterday.
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As I said, on the replay screen Agar could see he was out and he didn't walk? Trott clearly hit the ball, but the Aussies reviewed. It's the nature of the game.
Trott didn't clearly hit the ball, it was a very thin edge onto his pads and it was a clear lbw if he hadn't hit it. It took several replays in slow motion to see the edge.
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Can someone remind me of the Mitchell Starc incident please?
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Players don't walk any more, I won't fault Broad for not doing it, after all, is it any worse than what starc did yesterday? Or than Pattinson reviewing his blatent lbw yesterday
Didn't see the Star one (remind me), but Pattinson can't have absolutely known he was lbw so it was worth a review, that isn't cheating, it's using the technology we now have. Broad must have known he'd hit that and should have walked.
Commentators know talking, about Broad's "courage and audacity" for not walking, bollocks, he has cheated, he knows it and we know it.
What about when the wicketkeeper/slip fielders appeal when they know the batsmen has not touched it ie they dont hear a sound....that is cheating as well as you are trying to "con" the umpire
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Can someone remind me of the Mitchell Starc incident please?
When Trott was given out, Starc just stood next to him and screamed in his face.
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Last Ashes Clarke middled it off KP and didn't walk, that's the nature of it.
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As I said, on the replay screen Agar could see he was out and he didn't walk? Trott clearly hit the ball, but the Aussies reviewed. It's the nature of the game.
Trott didn't clearly hit the ball, it was a very thin edge onto his pads and it was a clear lbw if he hadn't hit it. It took several replays in slow motion to see the edge.
The umpire saw it.
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I agree you'd prefer to see players walk and that you'd hope we can be above whatever the ozzies do but I'd rather win the series than lose because we walked and they didn't.
Importantly if they hadn't wasted reviews trying to get 50/50s in their favour they'd have been able to refer it and they'd have got him, so it's their own fault for not using drs properly.
No sympathy from me I'm afraid.
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No, sorry, two wrongs don't make a right and just because The Aussies might have cheated it doesn't make what Broad did correct in the spirit of the game. The other decisions you are talking about were marginal, and in the Trott dismissal the third umpire didn't see the edge so it couldn't have been that obvious.
I remember the Starc thing now, he was just pumped up, the umpire could have done with warning him but he wasn't cheating. Broad cheated, and I don't like it cheats in any sport.
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100 partnership up - sound just hope Belly can get a minimum of another 11
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It was very obvious, in any case I agree it's not ideal but it happens all the time. Clarke has done it, Smith has done it, Hughes has claimed a catch when it clearly didn't carry. It's not ideal but it happens.
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Anyway this detracts from the fact that Bell has played a magnificent innings and Broad has been really really good.
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It's not cheating though, it's not in the spirit of the game but there is nothing to say he has to walk so he hasn't done anything that can be called cheating.
Walking is very rare and has been for years and there is a system in place to allow the players to correct wrong decisions, that the australians used that system to try to get wickets they didn't deserve is closer to cheating and is the reason why they didn't get him.
It really is that simple and I don't think any other country would respond so negatively to one of their own players not walking.
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Also the pumped thing from Starc, it's fair enough if you do it when the decision is given immediately and you're on the run through. It's more calculated when you wait for a decision.
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Anyway this detracts from the fact that Bell has played a magnificent innings and Broad has been really really good.
I think both of them have done a fantastic job and have put us in with a big chance of winning from here.
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Calm down James, and there you go appealing for massive inside edge.
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The Aussies are close to losing it here............
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It's not cheating though, it's not in the spirit of the game but there is nothing to say he has to walk so he hasn't done anything that can be called cheating.
There's nothing in the laws of football that says you can't dive like Tom Daley when you get the slightest touch on your arm in the penalty area, but it's still cheating in my book.
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Calm down James, and there you go appealing for massive inside edge.
yep, what pattinson did there double appealing for lbw on a big edge is just as bad.
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Calm down James, and there you go appealing for massive inside edge.
yep, what pattinson did there double appealing for lbw on a big edge is just as bad.
Have you ever played the game? I was a spin bowler and it's pretty difficult to tell when a batsman has got an edge on a delivery that is going to hit the stumps, you aren't really looking at the batsman on your follow through, you are running off the pitch. Doubly hard for a pace bowler I'd have thought. Unless I heard the nick I appealed.
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It's not cheating though, it's not in the spirit of the game but there is nothing to say he has to walk so he hasn't done anything that can be called cheating.
There's nothing in the laws of football that says you can't dive like Tom Daley when you get the slightest touch on your arm in the penalty area, but it's still cheating in my book.
Yes there is...
USSF answer (September 2, 2009):
The following standard applies at all levels of the game: Simulation occurs when the player “attempts to deceive the referee by feigning injury or pretending to have been fouled.” Whether the contact would or would not have caused the player to fall is relevant to a decision about a foul, but not to a decision about misconduct. In other words, the caution is for faking or exaggerating — where the faking is usually focused on whether a foul occurred whereas the exaggerating is often focused on whether a foul went beyond “careless” and should be carded. A player might well have been fouled (i. e., the contact did indeed unfairly cause him to fall), but if he then screams, moans, groans, rolls, etc. in an attempt to “sell” a card, then it is included as a cautionable offense. In all cases, we are punishing efforts to con the referee into a favorable decision — which could be to call a foul that wasn’t or to card for a true foul that didn’t involve misconduct.
source (http://www.askasoccerreferee.com/?cat=72)
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Calm down James, and there you go appealing for massive inside edge.
yep, what pattinson did there double appealing for lbw on a big edge is just as bad.
Have you ever played the game? I was a spin bowler and it's pretty difficult to tell when a batsman has got an edge on a delivery that is going to hit the stumps, you aren't really looking at the batsman on your follow through, you are running off the pitch. Doubly hard for a pace bowler I'd have thought. Unless I heard the nick I appealed.
Twice?
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Well done England, especially Belly
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Brilliant from England, that's a hell of an effort to bat out the day.
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Calm down James, and there you go appealing for massive inside edge.
yep, what pattinson did there double appealing for lbw on a big edge is just as bad.
Have you ever played the game? I was a spin bowler and it's pretty difficult to tell when a batsman has got an edge on a delivery that is going to hit the stumps, you aren't really looking at the batsman on your follow through, you are running off the pitch. Doubly hard for a pace bowler I'd have thought. Unless I heard the nick I appealed.
Twice?
Unless told by the wicket keeper or slips that there was definitely an edge then yes, until the umpire gives it one way or the other then it's worth the appeal if I thought it was lbw.
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Moving on, massive partnership from Bell and Broad, both did exactly what was needed and the game has swung quite heavily in our favour now. We should get a lead well over 300, probably closer to 350 now.
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We need to look at 300 + on this pitch.
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Got to be pleased with that. If Bell and Broad are in 15 minutes after play starts tomorrow, England will cruise past 300.
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Well played to Broad for approaching Test Match batting like Test Match batting and not the John Player Sunday league. He should do it more often.
Great innings from Bell. He must have felt under pressure to produce something and on a difficult pitch did just that. Top bollocks.
150 on this pitch is a tough target. With whatever England can scrat together tomorrow Australia should be out of it.
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Australia look short of a top class spinner to really get the most out of the pitch, we have one of the best around, I confidently predict a Swann 5for over the weekend (with a slight warning that what could scupper this is a wonder spell from Jimmy like the first inning).
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Mikey Holding made an interesting point during Sky's analysis; ie how was Broad's failure to walk any different to Ramdin not saying he dropped the ball. The latter was banned for two games for "conduct that is contrary to the spirit of the game"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/22846305
My opinion is that its not up to a batsman to say they've hit the ball or for a fielder to say that they've dropped it. That's the Umpire's job.
NB - as I've said before, I'd also ban "appealing". A player's either out or they're not, how convincing the appeal is should not make a difference.
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I guess Aleem Dar "gave back" Trott decision by Erasamus. Very lucky man Broad.
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We need to look at 300 + on this pitch.
I don't think the Aussies will gwt anywhere near 220. 300 plus will make us feel very safe, but with the ball spitting and turning for Swanny to the left handers and Jimmy reversing it, we will blitz them.
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Brilliant from England, that's a hell of an effort to bat out the day.
Ditto.
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Mikey Holding made an interesting point during Sky's analysis; ie how was Broad's failure to walk any different to Ramdin not saying he dropped the ball. The latter was banned for two games for "conduct that is contrary to the spirit of the game"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/22846305
My opinion is that its not up to a batsman to say they've hit the ball or for a fielder to say that they've dropped it. That's the Umpire's job.
NB - as I've said before, I'd also ban "appealing". A player's either out or they're not, how convincing the appeal is should not make a difference.
There is a huge difference as Ramdin "claimed" the catch......
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Mikey Holding made an interesting point during Sky's analysis; ie how was Broad's failure to walk any different to Ramdin not saying he dropped the ball. The latter was banned for two games for "conduct that is contrary to the spirit of the game"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/22846305
My opinion is that its not up to a batsman to say they've hit the ball or for a fielder to say that they've dropped it. That's the Umpire's job.
NB - as I've said before, I'd also ban "appealing". A player's either out or they're not, how convincing the appeal is should not make a difference.
There is a huge difference as Ramdin "claimed" the catch......
Yeah, that's what I thought too. There's a fine line, as you can say Broad 'conned' the umpire with his reaction, but Ramdin tried to claim credit for something that wasn't true, while Broad stuck with the umpire's call and didn't speak up. One broke the laws, the other followed them to the letter.
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Never mind all this walk don't walk business.
Did anybody hear Blowers rapping at lunch on TMS with the Duckworth Lewis Method... it's was priceless....
However, not as funny as later in the day when Blowers was commentating with Tuffers he described his appearance as an MC thusly 'The Duckworth Lewis Method featuring Blow Job!'... I thought Tuffers was going to lay an egg! Brilliant Radio!
England to go onto to a 350 lead and skittle the Aussies for about 180-200. Beautiful.
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NB - as I've said before, I'd also ban "appealing". A player's either out or they're not, how convincing the appeal is should not make a difference.
No no no!
The appeal is written into the very laws of the game, you have to ask the umpire if the batsman is out, it's a fundamental part of cricket.
If an umpire is swayed by how vehement the appeal is then he is not a very good umpire.
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If we beat Australia having had Trott and Root wrongfully dismissed and when the Aussie No.11 should have been out on 5, it's going to send a strong message for the series.
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Never mind all this walk don't walk business.
Did anybody hear Blowers rapping at lunch on TMS with the Duckworth Lewis Method... it's was priceless....
However, not as funny as later in the day when Blowers was commentating with Tuffers he described his appearance as an MC thusly 'The Duckworth Lewis Method featuring Blow Job!'... I thought Tuffers was going to lay an egg! Brilliant Radio!
England to go onto to a 350 lead and skittle the Aussies for about 180-200. Beautiful.
Yes Wombat, I mentioned a few minutes after it happened. It was hilarious more so as Blofeld was totally oblivious to what he said. Tigers did well to keep as composed as he did.
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Thought this one has slipped away yesterday after that last wicket stand.
A better side than Australia are at present would have cashed in on good fortune like that.
As for the Broad walk/ don't walk bobbins: Gilchrist apart, Australians have never walked. So fuck 'em.
If there is one nation who have turned sportsmanship and bending the rules into an art it's them. So they really don't have a leg to stand on when the opposition do it. In fact it makes it even sweeter when it goes against them.
It's like Argentinians moaning about a harsh penalty decision.
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Just to say I agree with everything plumbutt has said on this
He should have walked
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If all international players in world cricket agree a code whereby they walk if they know they've edged it, then maybe (and good luck in getting Australia to agree to that).
Until that day, Broad was 110% in the right to do what he did today.
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Changing the subject, I just watched the first episode of the BBC's Kerry Packer drama and thought it was fantastic. Would recommend any cricket fan to catch it on IPlayer if you haven't seen it yet.
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It was a real shocker from (the usually excellent) Aleem Dar.
But the blame lies there, rather than with Broad, to my mind.
It doesn't pay to skate too far ahead in this series, as we've seen. But if this plays out as it should and England go on to win, Australia must take heart. They've had the supposedly far superior hosts on the rack on a number of occasions. A loss in this game shouldn't derail their confidence.
I'm not sure how this will transpire over the next few months, but I'm pretty certain there will be no 10-0 whitewash, as per Botham's prediction. I'd say that's more a sign that he's been on the ol' jazz cigarettes a bit too much again.
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Maybe Botham is being a touch in cheeck, much like ex Aussies legends like McGrath and Ponting saying Aussies will win this series. As for Broad walking, why should he, it is the decision of the umpire? He has set the tone for the series though and all players will now do the same, the aussies are brought up like it anyway. Fecking hope Bell gets his ton and moves on to get a real big score to put the convicts out of the game
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Changing the subject, I just watched the first episode of the BBC's Kerry Packer drama and thought it was fantastic. Would recommend any cricket fan to catch it on IPlayer if you haven't seen it yet.
Thanks for the tip mate. Just seen the firs half hour and will watch the rest tomorrow. Great start and memories came flooding back. Remember listening to the Centenary test match commentary and Randall's effort.
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NB - as I've said before, I'd also ban "appealing". A player's either out or they're not, how convincing the appeal is should not make a difference.
No no no!
The appeal is written into the very laws of the game, you have to ask the umpire if the batsman is out, it's a fundamental part of cricket.
If an umpire is swayed by how vehement the appeal is then he is not a very good umpire.
"HOWZAT" shouted at the top of your voice is tradition and a requisite call to ask the Umpire. When I captained a team I used to give the wicky, first slip and bowler a target to get in two appeals in every over. It's just not cricket without it.
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So the best argument for not walking is that every one else does it, not what's right or what's best for the game, no, let's take the lowest denominator and work from that
Armstrong didn't really think he was cheating, because everyone else was doing doping, he couldn't win without doping so he joined the rest
The Aussies would never walk, so what, doesn't make it right,
In 10/20 years time they will still be rolling out that video of Broad,like they did with the one of Clark yesterday, blatant cheating is never forgotten,
Willis said last night the older cricketers Botham, Holding, Gower all said he should have walked the younger generation Nasser, Strauss etc say he should have stayed,
that's what sport is becoming nowadays, I bet those on here who say he had every right to stay are mainly under the age of 40,
They have grown up with cheating as part of the game
Remember Southampton at home last season, well it's all part of the game
As far as I'm concerned its a rubbish argument to take the biggest cheats and take the lead from them, Broad would have done himself and the game a lot of good yesterday had he not cheated
If we win the test now, the Aussies will say its tarnished, and it is,
even if they are just as bad, we don't need to join them
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It isn't tarnished. yes you'd rather you'd win without any controversy but Trott wasn't out and Broad was so it evens itself up. I too thought Broad should have walked and hope he recognises it publicly. But, the more money and the more professional any sport becomes the less you see days gone by amateur sensibilities being commonplace. Maybe after a while he thought he should have walked to but in the heat fo the moment he didn't. Then walking wiould have made himself look ridiculous. Should he have walked? Yes. Will I celebrate if we win the test? Yes.
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My opinion is he should have walked.
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I'm old fashioned and believe that walking is the thing to do.
However, this is the Aussies we're talking about and Broad not walking is the ultimate in showing them the error of their ways.
Dar had a shocker, Clarke made a spurious appeal earlier and lost his side the chance.
The appeal system should have covered this decision and would have if he'd used it properly.
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It isn't tarnished. yes you'd rather you'd win without any controversy but Trott wasn't out and Broad was so it evens itself up. I too thought Broad should have walked and hope he recognises it publicly. But, the more money and the more professional any sport becomes the less you see days gone by amateur sensibilities being commonplace. Maybe after a while he thought he should have walked to but in the heat fo the moment he didn't. Then walking wiould have made himself look ridiculous. Should he have walked? Yes. Will I celebrate if we win the test? Yes.
One of my Dads old sayings was 'if you can't win without cheating, it's best not to win at all'
Broad didn't need to cheat to win yesterday, he could have taken the moral high ground and winning would have been all the sweeter
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If all international players in world cricket agree a code whereby they walk if they know they've edged it, then maybe (and good luck in getting Australia to agree to that).
Until that day, Broad was 110% in the right to do what he did today.
Agree totally - Broad had every right to stand and wait for the umpire - as Sir Geoffrey pointed out very few Australians walk.
These things even themselves out - Trott's decision etc.
The only moral argument is England should not appear to give the impression that they need dodgy decisions to win. The Aussies appear to be trying their hardest to avoid this series being a walkover for England as some were predicting.
Yes I'm hoping England win but I hope the Aussies put up some resistance. The Broad incident might help fire them up a bit.
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If all international players in world cricket agree a code whereby they walk if they know they've edged it, then maybe (and good luck in getting Australia to agree to that).
Until that day, Broad was 110% in the right to do what he did today.
Agree totally - Broad had every right to stand and wait for the umpire - as Sir Geoffrey pointed out very few Australians walk.
These things even themselves out - Trott's decision etc.
The only moral argument is England should not appear to give the impression that they need dodgy decisions to win. The Aussies appear to be trying their hardest to avoid this series being a walkover for England as some were predicting.
Yes I'm hoping England win but I hope the Aussies put up some resistance. The Broad incident might help fire them up a bit.
How does that argument stand up with Armstrong then ?
If everyone is in tacit agreement there is no problem ?
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Referees, Umpires etc all make mistakes. Alim Dar is a very good umpire. He is not perfect. Players naturally want to avoid getting out - if you are a batsman facing an lbw appeal the first thing you do is look at the edge of your bat and pretend you got a touch on it or you shuffle a bit to leg to make the umpire think the ball was missing the stumps.
I know I won't go to heaven as I was given out lbw when playing against the Worcester Clergy team - I stood there looking at my bat, then started to walk "Could have sworn I touched that" I said to the keeper. Next thing I knew they withdrew the appeal. I went on to achieve my highest score (don't laugh it was only 13 - but included 2 fours).
Never been comfortable when in a church since!
Drugs is a different issue that is premeditated (or is that pre-medicated) I could go on for days about that - and I'm spending the weekend working at the British Athletics trials this weekend.
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Saying Broad cheated is sanctimonious drivel and the artles in the Sydney Morning Herald bleating on are hypocritical pish too.
Its the umpires job to send you back to the hutch and you are perfectly entitled to stand your ground. No umpire is perfect and he will make mistakes that turn out positively for you or more often than not, going against you. England themselves have been on the end of two howlers in this game alone.
At the end of the day Clarke only has himself to blame for his poor use of DRS.
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I reckon we'll leave them broken with 400 plus to chase, and then skittle them for less than 150.
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Not just the Trott dismissal, but Agar was definitely, definitely not in his ground when given not out on that stumping decision early in his innings, far as I'm concerned. The Aussies have benefited from some poor decisions in this match and now so have we - it doesn't change the fact that they've failed to get out Ian Bell, the main reason for England's lead building strongly.
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Right come on England.
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Good start Mitch!
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Edge through the slips from Broad, stop those shots though.
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Edge through the slips from Broad, stop those shots though.
Another dose of salt in those Aussie wounds!
Poor souls!
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Brilliant brilliant 100 Bell, best for England. Keep going.
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Edge through the slips from Broad, stop those shots though.
Another dose of salt in those Aussie wounds!
Poor souls!
And that's another!!!
Well done Villa boy Belly!
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Watching a prog last night and seeing Randall walk in the Centenary test was a pleasure. It was a messy bat and pad and he could have stood his ground, as people refer to what is basically cowardice, and may be won the historic test match but he didn't wait for an appeal or umpire he walked straight away therefor making the loss more honourable.
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Broad gone, well played. Now need the tail to wag some more.
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He walked there.
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Bell out, brilliants innings though.
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Right all out, need to defend this now.
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Strauss is starting to settle into the commentary role, getting more involved with the banter.
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Edge drops short.
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Should have walked!
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Aussies looking very comfortable at the start.
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Yes but they have as much chance of going to 311 as I have of being the next King of Sweden!
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All hail King Olaftab.
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We need to start making inroads quite quickly.
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Come on Swanny rip through them.
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Hmm this looks a bit ominous at the moment.
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We are struggling here.
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This is very easy for them.
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Looks like we're needing a bit of luck here. I think we're falling in to the trap of bowling to plan A regardless of the conditions, whenever we look out of sorts with the ball it's because our swing bowlers aren't getting much assitance and they struggle to vary things.
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Broad strikes, get out Watson. We need to get going through them now.
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We need to get a cluster of wickets here.
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Rogers not out after review.
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Need to get more wickets quickly.
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Good spell from Broad here and Swann is starting to get the odd bit of uncomfortable bounce as well.
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Finn you need to turn up here.
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Finn is short and one of reasons is he is final stepping well inside the crease. needs to adjust his run up.
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Swann isn't looking threatening enough.
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Swann is bowling utter dross.
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I think aftab is going to be the King of Sweden.
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You watch after tea how my chances of returning to Stockholm diminish! This pitch is not going to deliver for them tomorrow. (oh unless they win tonight)
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I think they're going to win this, we don't look threatening from either end.
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Root strikes! Now we need Clarke gone quick.
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Great timing, we need to get into them quick.
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Good to get another before tea. They've still got a hell of a long way to go in this match here, we're still huge favourites as far as I'm concerned.
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Good to get another before tea. They've still got a hell of a long way to go in this match here, we're still huge favourites as far as I'm concerned.
I wouldn't say huge favourites at all, we need Clarke and Rogers gone quickly to stand a good chance.
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they need 200 for 8 on effectively a day 5 pitch, that's a huge challenge still.
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It's a pretty easy pitch to be honest.
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Come on Jimmy knock three over now.
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We need a couple of quick wickets here.
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The problem we have is that Swann is contributing nothing.
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We need a couple of quick wickets here.
While that would be nice I think it's all about building pressure. They'll still be thinking about winning this and if we can get them to start taking risks then mistakes will follow.
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Rogers gone, big wicket. Need to get Clarke asap.
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You need to take some wickets Swann.
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I reckon Smith would be horrible to bowl against, with his action you'd be backing yourself on every ball but he seems to make it work for him somehow.
This pair are key now, if they can make a stand the game moves in their favour, if we get them cheap it's probably all over.
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well done broad for the initial breakthrough. it's hard going but i think swann will still have a bearing on this match as the ball gets worn.
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Swann is bowling really poorly.
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Swann is bowling really poorly.
He struggling to find a length, if he bowls his usual length they're just getting too much time so he's trying to hang it up more but it's not his normal game.
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Finn is bowling well, but we need a couple of quick wickets.
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It's definitely tipping towards Australia.
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Swann is bowling really poorly.
Give him time they are slowing the run rate so this will help swann.
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Swann is bowling really poorly.
Give him time they are slowing the run rate so this will help swann.
He's running out of time.
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We need a couple of wickets now, we really do.
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Australia are going to win this aren't they?
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Clarke should be out here
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Clarke is gone, phew. Need a couple more.
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Oh and he didn't walk.
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Australia are going to win this aren't they?
It's not over till the missus sings (sorry love).
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Australia are going to win this aren't they?
Mockers!!
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Oh and he didn't walk.
Yep, can we have 3-4 pages slating him for not walking now.
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Smith is gone!!!
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We need a couple of wickets now, we really do.
He He.
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And a couple more please.
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I love being wrong sometimes. ;)
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Swann with the wicket. Using up their reviews could really hurt them.
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And a couple more please.
Greedy. It's been a great match real swings and roundabouts. good advert for test cricket.
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I'm surprised he reviewed it as there was a clear noise, which comes up on snicko.
And that is a beauty from Swann.
England's game to lose now.
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Clarke didn't walk and he clearly hit it, so no more questions please. This isn't over, all their lower order can bat and Haddin and Hughes are good.
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Great last wicket from swanny, it's turning more now.
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Great last wicket from swanny, it's turning more now.
That one and the Haddin wicket in the 1st innings are 2 genuinely world class deliveries that would've beaten anyone. Add on the Clarke wicket from the first innings and we've seen some pretty special wickets for England here.
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Great last wicket from swanny, it's turning more now.
That one and the Haddin wicket in the 1st innings are 2 genuinely world class deliveries that would've beaten anyone. Add on the Clarke wicket from the first innings and we've seen some pretty special wickets for England here.
Agreed: cook seems to know what hes doing (bowling wise) gonna be interesting.
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Great review, Hughes gone.
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GO swanny!!
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another pearler from swann, unplayable there. This is what I expected from Swann on this pitch, just took half a day to get going.
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Sounds like the roller killed the pitch earlier in the day and we're now getting the dividends from the pitch again.
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If all international players in world cricket agree a code whereby they walk if they know they've edged it, then maybe (and good luck in getting Australia to agree to that).
Until that day, Broad was 110% in the right to do what he did today.
Agree totally - Broad had every right to stand and wait for the umpire - as Sir Geoffrey pointed out very few Australians walk.
These things even themselves out - Trott's decision etc.
The only moral argument is England should not appear to give the impression that they need dodgy decisions to win. The Aussies appear to be trying their hardest to avoid this series being a walkover for England as some were predicting.
Yes I'm hoping England win but I hope the Aussies put up some resistance. The Broad incident might help fire them up a bit.
How does that argument stand up with Armstrong then ?
If everyone is in tacit agreement there is no problem ?
Unless Broad is blood doping or starts batting with a bionic arm there is no comparison there at all John.
One bloke set out in just about every major event he entered to rig the outcome, the other guy gave an umpire enough time to make his own (inaccurate on this occasion) decision.
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Who decides if they play past 6:30?
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Who decides if they play past 6:30?
England have to take another wicket at least and then have to ask the umpires
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Ta, max 30 minutes isn't it?
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Who decides if they play past 6:30?
The umpires: if they think that a result can be reached today. Does not look like it unless another 3 wickets go down.
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If all international players in world cricket agree a code whereby they walk if they know they've edged it, then maybe (and good luck in getting Australia to agree to that).
Until that day, Broad was 110% in the right to do what he did today.
Agree totally - Broad had every right to stand and wait for the umpire - as Sir Geoffrey pointed out very few Australians walk.
These things even themselves out - Trott's decision etc.
The only moral argument is England should not appear to give the impression that they need dodgy decisions to win. The Aussies appear to be trying their hardest to avoid this series being a walkover for England as some were predicting.
Yes I'm hoping England win but I hope the Aussies put up some resistance. The Broad incident might help fire them up a bit.
How does that argument stand up with Armstrong then ?
If everyone is in tacit agreement there is no problem ?
Unless Broad is blood doping or starts batting with a bionic arm there is no comparison there at all John.
One bloke set out in just about every major event he entered to rig the outcome, the other guy gave an umpire enough time to make his own (inaccurate on this occasion) decision.
Indeed no comparison at all.
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Come on get rid of Agar and Haddin.
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We're big favourites now, but it's still not over.
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We're big favourites now, but it's still not over.
We have been all day, the pitch was always going to wake up eventually, australia would've been hoping to score quickly and keep wickets in hand, and they started well but once we started to slow them down and take wickets we started to take the game away from them. The reality is they need one of the bowlers to do what Agar did again, on a far tougher pitch.
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Really good day of hard fought test match cricket. We're in the driving seat but there's still a lot of work to be done.
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Not just the Trott dismissal, but Agar was definitely, definitely not in his ground when given not out on that stumping decision early in his innings, far as I'm concerned. The Aussies have benefited from some poor decisions in this match and now so have we
But Agar would not have known whether he had made his ground or not, Broad absolutely knew he had hit it. Big difference.
I don't want cricket going the way of football. Golfers still call their own fouls.
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Here is a prediction. If the match goes into the post lunch session than Aussies will win. However it won't and I see 4 wickets tomorrow morning falling in the first session.
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The Aussies have benefited from some poor decisions in this match and now so have we
As they say it equals out over time. Human's make mistakes and as long as its just that and not "fixed" it's fine.
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All hail King Olaftab.
I like that Monty. I think I will have that for my user name if we can do a deal?
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Aussies are quietly confident of knocking these off.
They are also endulging in some olympic style whining about Broad's non walk too - typically while totally failing to mention the Agar stumping or Trott dismissal.
I do love this country but my God they're the most one eyed, whining sports fans you'll ever have the misfortune to meet. They're like a nation of Olybiun fans.
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All hail King Olaftab.
I like that Monty. I think I will have that for my user name if we can do a deal?
Feel free. I was definitely a little too proud of the Mellberg tie-in there.
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What is the weather looking like for Sunday?
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Hot and sunny about 31 degrees at peak in Nottingham.
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Cheers Aftab
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Well I'm up fuelled and two hours from starting a Half Ironman, I trust by the time I finish (about 1230-1300) that England will have this sewn up! I can then have a beer to celebrate!
The tickets I have for Old Trafford could see the Ashes retained.... Mwahahahahahahahaaa let's hope so!
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Day 5 here we go.
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Don't take the new ball England.
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It might not get that far.
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It will I'm certain, there is still a lot of threat from the Aussies as they can all bat.
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Strauss is starting to enjoy the job now, he's settling into the role.
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Not a lot happening here.
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New ball taken
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New ball taken. lets see
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I am getting pretty edgy here, they're knocking off these runs very easily.
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I was at Trent Bridge yesterday, what a brilliant days sport it was. The banter and craic with the Aussies was brilliant, if only football was like that.
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Here is a prediction. If the match goes into the post lunch session than Aussies will win. However it won't and I see 4 wickets tomorrow morning falling in the first session.
I wouldn't even try to predict this, it's too close to call.
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I'd say Aussies are looking favourites there hasn't been a chance yet and they look very easy.
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We're going to lose this if something doesn't change quickly.
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great ball
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Agar gone, bowled Jimmy. Right need to rip through them here.
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I was at Trent Bridge yesterday, what a brilliant days sport it was. The banter and craic with the Aussies was brilliant, if only football was like that.
Always great when the Aussies are here going way back to the 70's i would say there is no atmosphere in the world like ashes cricket. It's one long piss take all day.
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We need to get Haddin out, he's such a dangerous player.
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Nice one
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Starc gone! Get out.
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Starc gone for 1
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Closing in now
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Dont think this will last to lunch, unless another last wicket mega stand takes place.
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Still nervous...
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Same here, these can all bat but come on England.
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The thing that worries me here is that Haddin and Siddle seem like ideal characters for this situation.
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c'mon England
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Cook dropped Siddle, bloody hell.
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There's something happening in every over. What is it with Ashes cricket and high drama?
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Peach of a delivery from Swann. How did that miss leg stump?
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Get out, Cook makes up for it.
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What a catch!!
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1 to go. Great catch
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Oh! Jimmy Jimmy! Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Anderson!
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Swannie to end it i say.
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Surely we have got them now ?
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Not until that last wicket is down, both of these can bat very well.
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Right come on Finny, finish it please.
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not panicking till it gets under 30 runs required.
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Bloody hell.
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Nice 50 Haddin.
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We are under threat here, Finn is getting hammered.
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Too bloody short Finn.
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I am supposed to go to work now. Bloody hell.
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We are in trouble here.
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still not panicking
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FFS get Finn off now before he can cause any more damage.
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oh heck
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Fucking hell.
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I'm twitchin now like Harry Redknapp
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Silly mistakes.
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This is piss poor now.
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FFS get Finn off now before he can cause any more damage.
Finn's just played himself out of the Lords test
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Nice bowling broady
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I would think so too, but I'd go Onions rather than Bresnan.
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Fucking hell Anderson looks injured.
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Bowling broady
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This is heading into Edgbaston 2005 territory
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This is heading into Edgbaston 2005 territory
yep.
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This is horrendous.
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We're bloody going to lose this.
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Win,loose,draw, it's been one of the best test matches Ive seen.
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Whatever happens we need to look at our bowling at the last wicket, we've conceded over 200 runs across the two innings.
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Whatever happens we need to look at our bowling at the last wicket, we've conceded over 200 runs across the two innings.
And England's 10th wicket has yielded 2 runs in 2 innings...
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Whatever happens we need to look at our bowling at the last wicket, we've conceded over 200 runs across the two innings.
And England's 10th wicket has yielded 2 runs in 2 innings...
Exactly.
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Finn needs to sort himself out, he has looked horrible.
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Has Victor been on TMS at any point in this test ?
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Finn needs to sort himself out, he has looked horrible.
Drop him and put Onions in. Finn has been awful apart from two balls all match. You need control in tests and with Finn and Broad we don't have that. We should only play one of them next up.
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Finn needs to sort himself out, he has looked horrible.
Drop him and put Onions in. Finn has been awful apart from two balls all match. You need control in tests and with Finn and Broad we don't have that. We should only play one of them next up.
Bit harsh on Broad, he's been pretty controlled.
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I'd rather Finn occasionally hit the stumps with his knee and went back to his old bowling.
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This is torture. I'd still rather be in our position. Just.
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I think Finn needs to work on his run up. He has made a big difference in this test match for wrong reasons.
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To be honest, Anderson aside we've bowled really poorly this session. Finn's two overs were a disgrace, and his fielding's been woeful.
I believe if you concede well over 200 runs to the last wicket in a test match, you can't deserve to win it.
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I think Finn needs to work on his run up. He has made a big difference in this test match for wrong reasons.
It's ever since he started changing it that he's gone backwards.
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Come on Jimmy save us please.
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I really can't see how we are going to take a wicket, unless they get nervous.
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I really can't see how we are going to take a wicket, unless they get nervous.
The same, but I always thought they had a great chance. Our team needs to rediscover it's ruthlessness, we are too casual and not aggressive enough. We also need to start scoring runs again, the top order needs to turn up and the tail need to contribute.
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Jimmy has stuck four perfect deliveries just outside off stump already today. We might only need one more. Don't panic! Aaaaagh!
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Please please please win England.
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unreal
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Erm, we can't just allow singles now
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thank god for Bells ton.
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Can't see us doing this.
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Fucking hell
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Can't believe how badly we've fucked up both their innings
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We seem to have picked the perfect fielding positions to ensure we don't take any wickets or prevent any runs.
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The ball isn't moving at all, and Swann isn't doing anything.
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sounded like a noise
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It's over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Give him out!
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Game over
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FUCKING GET THE FUCK IN. JIMMY ANDERSON I THINK I FUCKING LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Would have been nice to have had the middle stump flying but you can't have it all.
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Come here Australia, let me taste your tears...
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Well played Haddin and Pattinson that took balls. Right from our perspective, that batsmen need to do a lot more as a unit as do the bowlers. We need to get our ruthlessness and power back. The other bowlers need to perform and not leave everything to Jimmy. I'd bring Onions in for next game.
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Don't really see what Haddin can moan about. It sounded like a clear noise live.
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Swann needs to turn up in the next match.
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Don't really see what Haddin can moan about. It sounded like a clear noise live.
this
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Bell should get MOTM.
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Bell should get MOTM.
I think Anderson to be honest.
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Anderson bowled amazingly, Broad was good, Swann was poor and Finn was atrocious.
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Got to be Agar for me, without that knock we would have strolled it. Like watching the Villa isn't it? Very nervy.
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I hope this banishes any complacency from our players as well, this Australia side will fight and push us very close.
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Jimmy has stuck four perfect deliveries just outside off stump already today. We might only need one more. Don't panic!
Engaging smug mode.
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I would give it to Bell because He made the game go to the final day. Without that ton we were buried.
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Bell should get MOTM.
I think Anderson to be honest.
I'd give it to Dar for a laugh.
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The empire strikes back - again!!.....
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Jimmy Anderson's average is justifiably coming down now.
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I hope this banishes any complacency from our players as well, this Australia side will fight and push us very close.
Yes.
England aren't as good as they think they are and Australia aren't anywhere near as bad as has been reported.
Looks like two pretty evenly matched sides, with England just shading it in the batting department.
Should be some series.
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I hope this banishes any complacency from our players as well, this Australia side will fight and push us very close.
Yes.
England aren't as good as they think they are and Australia aren't anywhere near as bad as has been reported.
Looks like two pretty evenly matched sides, with England just shading it in the batting department.
Should be some series.
I completely disagree. We were poor and we beat a side who were only in the game because of 2 massive last wicket stands. That won't happen every innings We've got 200+ more runs in the side than they have, we should win much comfortably going forward, I really can't see them improving from this.
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As for man of the match, if a bowler takes 11 wickets I wouldn't want to be the person telling him he man of the match.
Jimmy all the way, had 3 brilliant spells in the match where he was head and shoulders above every other bowler in the match. Deserves the award purely for the Clarke delivery in the first innings, you'd struggle to see a better seamer delivery anywhere in the world, ever, the more they show it the more perfect it looks.
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I would give it to Bell because He made the game go to the final day. Without that ton we were buried.
There are lots of plays throughout the match which would have impacted on the result. The Agar stumping that wasn't given. Had it been the game could well have been over early yesterday. The one person who really would like to thank Bell for his contribution more than anybody will be the CEO of Trent Bridge.
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I hope this banishes any complacency from our players as well, this Australia side will fight and push us very close.
Yes.
England aren't as good as they think they are and Australia aren't anywhere near as bad as has been reported.
Looks like two pretty evenly matched sides, with England just shading it in the batting department.
Should be some series.
I completely disagree. We were poor and we beat a side who were only in the game because of 2 massive last wicket stands. That won't happen every innings We've got 200+ more runs in the side than they have, we should win much comfortably going forward, I really can't see them improving from this.
Our batting line up hasn't lived up to expectation quite a lot lately, they need to start getting big runs.
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If Finn is dropped I'd prefer Onions to Bresnan.
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Tremlett is also an option.
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I think Bresnan is massively undervalued by a lot of people, the key thing is he brings a bit of dependability that Finn hasn't shown this match. Onions is a tough one, he was excellent a few years ago but I'm not sure if he's currently where he needs to be to play for England.
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Oh and please can we produce proper pitches for future games please. That pitch which produced for spin and it didn't work at all.
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And just pause for a second to remember Agar. The Aussie winker.
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Jimmy has stuck four perfect deliveries just outside off stump already today. We might only need one more. Don't panic!
Engaging smug mode.
Yes that's ok not that you were doubting anyone ;)
We seem to have picked the perfect fielding positions to ensure we don't take any wickets or prevent any runs.
However here is me getting it completely wrong!
Here is a prediction. If the match goes into the post lunch session than Aussies will win. However it won't and I see 4 wickets tomorrow morning falling in the first session.
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I hope this banishes any complacency from our players as well, this Australia side will fight and push us very close.
Yes.
England aren't as good as they think they are and Australia aren't anywhere near as bad as has been reported.
Looks like two pretty evenly matched sides, with England just shading it in the batting department.
Should be some series.
I completely disagree. We were poor and we beat a side who were only in the game because of 2 massive last wicket stands. That won't happen every innings We've got 200+ more runs in the side than they have, we should win much comfortably going forward, I really can't see them improving from this.
Our batting line up hasn't lived up to expectation quite a lot lately, they need to start getting big runs.
I'm with paul e on this, I do think we have to much quality in every area, this was there big chance
5-0 whitewash for me now weather permitting
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I think to be honest, we did everything we could to lose this game. Batting poorly in the first innings, then losing our heads at the end of their first innings, and to a lesser extent, their second.
I've always thought that the Aussies have a decent enough seam attack, (although not as good as ours in form) but they have no spinner of note and an incredibly fragile batting line up. In all fairness if Agar was given out stumped correctly in the first, then we go on to win the game by at least a very comfortable margin of 150-200 runs.
I think that with Bell getting back into form, our batting lineup will surely fire much more than theirs throughout the rest of the series. I'd go with Bresnan over Finn unless the Lords pitch looks like having serious pace and bounce in it. I am a huge fan of Finn, but he has had a poor match and seems low on form/belief at the moment. The two overs he bowled today gave the Aussies a lot of momentum and confidence.
They have fight about them, they are an Australian side. However, if they come up against us in a not so generous mood then they won't get close.
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Is it going to be like this all summer? I don't think my nerves can take another 2005.
Absolutely brilliant Test match, the obvious flaws on both sides only made it better, one or two good performances from either side can swing any of these games. Agar, Siddle and Haddin nearly did it for the Convicts, Bell and Anderson just edged it for England.
Brilliant stuff.
I don't think I've ever studied a Hotspot so closely...or celebrated one!
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Just watched the highlights, great stuff... get in!!!
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I hope this banishes any complacency from our players as well, this Australia side will fight and push us very close.
Yes.
England aren't as good as they think they are and Australia aren't anywhere near as bad as has been reported.
Looks like two pretty evenly matched sides, with England just shading it in the batting department.
Should be some series.
I completely disagree. We were poor and we beat a side who were only in the game because of 2 massive last wicket stands. That won't happen every innings We've got 200+ more runs in the side than they have, we should win much comfortably going forward, I really can't see them improving from this.
I wouldn't bank on their top and middle order having as little impact in future games though. Clarke is too good and resourceful a player to keep down for too long, Hughes has runs in him and the openers have shown they can be awkward and hang around.
Nippier conditions bring their quick bowlers even more into the game (England's too, of course). Another mediocre first innings with the bat might actually catch up with them. They can't keep getting away with it.
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I think to be honest, we did everything we could to lose this game. Batting poorly in the first innings, then losing our heads at the end of their first innings, and to a lesser extent, their second.
I've always thought that the Aussies have a decent enough seam attack, (although not as good as ours in form) but they have no spinner of note and an incredibly fragile batting line up. In all fairness if Agar was given out stumped correctly in the first, then we go on to win the game by at least a very comfortable margin of 150-200 runs.
I think that with Bell getting back into form, our batting lineup will surely fire much more than theirs throughout the rest of the series. I'd go with Bresnan over Finn unless the Lords pitch looks like having serious pace and bounce in it. I am a huge fan of Finn, but he has had a poor match and seems low on form/belief at the moment. The two overs he bowled today gave the Aussies a lot of momentum and confidence.
They have fight about them, they are an Australian side. However, if they come up against us in a not so generous mood then they won't get close.
That's pretty much my view.
They've had chance after chance to take control and they couldn't. The danger of their attack has been in how erratic it was.
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We've got to take a long hard look at the bowling. On a wicket that was set up for spin Swann was surprisingly impotent. Apart from one spell in the first innings when he really tweaked the ball he looked very ordinary. Is he still injured?
We needed tailenders out today and only managed it because Anderson flogged himself to the edge and back again without losing any of his menace.
Finn must surely drop out. He seems to have lost it completely. Broad bowled well (i.e. sensibly) at the death and should stay. I wonder if Rankin should get the nod for Lords, Bresnan is steady but carries only limited menace.
Right now Australia have a better all round attack, we have Anderson.
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Is it going to be like this all summer? I don't think my nerves can take another 2005.
Absolutely brilliant Test match, the obvious flaws on both sides only made it better, one or two good performances from either side can swing any of these games. Agar, Siddle and Haddin nearly did it for the Convicts, Bell and Anderson just edged it for England.
Brilliant stuff.
I don't think I've ever studied a Hotspot so closely...or celebrated one!
That's how I see it too, Dave. I don't want clinical, straightforward victories. I want to watch two sides slug it out, and that includes human frailties exposed by the pressure.
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Are the match highlights available anywhere?
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Are the match highlights available anywhere?
They're currently being shown on Channel 5 +1. Other than that, maybe try the Channel 5 website.
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Right now Australia have a better all round attack, we have Anderson.
I don't think its fair to compare the attacks purely on the basis of one match where for large periods our bowlers were well under their usual level (Jimmy obviously excepted).
Even with that it took over 230 runs for the last wicket (both innings) and a couple of shockers not to give Agar out, then to give Trott out to see the match go close. Hopefully the England set up will be honest with themselves and realise that the way they bowled at Agar after he was stumped was pretty pathetic for a decent hour and a half.
Swann was under par, but for all Agar's heroics/making the most of good fortune with the bat, he didn't look an especially good spinner.
Our bowlers have done the business consistently for a large no of years now.
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We needed tailenders out today and only managed it because Anderson flogged himself to the edge and back again without losing any of his menace.
The thing is, Australia don't seem to have any genuine rabbits in the tail-end, they have about five No. 8s, none of them great batsmen but all capable of getting a few runs.
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I wonder if the Crims have decided to target Finn in this series the same way that we targeted Gillespie in 2005. He fell apart and was dropped to take him out of the firing line.
I think that Finn may play at Lords his home ground but would rather see Bresnan get the nod.
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I think for how well that Agar played in the first innings, we need to see him doing it consistently before he's labelled as a potential all rounder or good no 8. He played and missed at a good fair few in the second innings.
I remember Darren Gough making 60 odd in his first test innings and being lauded as the next Ian Botham.
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I wonder if the Crims have decided to target Finn in this series the same way that we targeted Gillespie in 2005. He fell apart and was dropped to take him out of the firing line.
I think that Finn may play at Lords his home ground but would rather see Bresnan get the nod.
I think it depends on conditions really. If the pitch looks like having more pace and bounce in it, then Finn should play. If its likely to be a pitch like this one that starts slow and gets slower, then Bresnan should play as he's a better exponent of reverse swing.
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Swann bowled poorly, but it was a very very slow spinning wicket and we don't want to see anymore of those. Slow spin is hopeless.
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To be honest it was a symptomatic failure of our first innings batting which has been a trouble of ours for a long time. I read somewhere that around 2009-11 we averaged 400+ in our first innings. Now its about 100 less. Its also not that rare to see us being skittled for for 200 or less. Even before that Pakistan series in 09 the batting had shown itself to be brittle. So, are we just going to find form because thatis the battingform that this team really has. Or does it say more about the teams that we played at the times that we played them, giving our better players the chance to take advantage?
The bowling attack has usually kept us in, and winning games though. Even in the UAE, one innings apart, the bowling attack where brilliant andkept us in games, and actually giving us good chances to win. Even so, over the same period, our bowling attack concede about 50 more runs now than during the periods I mentioned. Its around 300 to 350. So in 09-11 we'd usually have a minimum 1st innings lead. Now, its usually more or less even. We now lose, or draw, more because the bowlers can't always be expected to save it. Players getting on, more likely to be injured, new personnel etc
It was one of those tired moments twice when we looked bereft of ideas and seemed to be bowling with alack of a plan. it cost us a big innings lead, and nearly cost us the match. But, in saying that they came through and again its our bowlers that got us across the finishing line. Whether they should be happy with that credit they should be reminded that they didn't help the situation first time round after doing the hard work. and again, first time round the batting did let us down again.
I thought we didn't look quite right with Root at the top and Bairstow at 6. The latter is nothing more than one-day player with little or no technique for test-match level. The selectors must know this so it was riskyto allow him and Root to fail. I was for the idea of him opening butnot with thecaveat of Bairstow coming in. As it is I don't think Root looked comfortable there and so he should be moved back to 6. I don't think they will but theselectors should not just drop but bin Bairstow. But not surewho to bring in. The cupboard doesn't look to be brimming full of batsman ready for the next step up. There is Compton but after his comments about not getting a fair crack at the whip, whether you agree or not, I don't think the ECB would want to give him a place back straightaway, especially as they'd arranged for him to play in two games against the aussies for two different counties so they could have a good look at him, and who could blame them?
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I think you are over-anylising Peter.
I don't think there's a lot wrong with our batting, it's just that none of the buggers seem to be able to put in more than one or two consecutive decent performances.
Cook has recently beat the record for England centuries, Trott is as belligerent as ever, Bell was out of form but scored probably the match winning century yesterday...we will be fine if just two or three of them can string a few decent inning together.
I think we need to look at this Test with regards to The Aussies, they battled like bastards!
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Are the match highlights available anywhere?
They're currently being shown on Channel 5 +1. Other than that, maybe try the Channel 5 website.
Cheers Darlo - found it!
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Hard to disagree with most of that Peter.
I was thinking of slotting Root back down the order to take the pressure off, but that might be seen as too much chopping and changing. The better sides have consistency of selection, and after making the call to drop Compton, I think they'll persist with Root at the top of the order for a while.
Bresnan for Bairstow might be an option though, if they want to remain with Finn on his home deck but want the security of more depth to the attack should he misfire again. Broad seemed to be carrying a knock early on, and that punishing spell Anderson had to put himself through might have consequences, be that injury or fatigue going into the second test.
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Nah, Anderson just had a bit of cramp, understandable given the heat. A few salt tablets and a couple of days rest and he'll be fine.
I wouldn't change the team, Finn will want to prove a point and Swann won't bowl that badly for the rest of his Test career.
The only change I'd consider would be to drop Bairstow who isn't contributing anything at the moment, maybe bring Morgan back for a bit of momentum down the order?
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We needed tailenders out today and only managed it because Anderson flogged himself to the edge and back again without losing any of his menace.
The thing is, Australia don't seem to have any genuine rabbits in the tail-end, they have about five No. 8s, none of them great batsmen but all capable of getting a few runs.
They seem to know how to coach them. Even Warne and McGrath ended up as useful/annoying runmakers.
Agar seems to have a good eye and temperament but a bit of a dodgy technique. I suspect he'll become a pretty good bat.
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6 is the problem position and has been since Collingwood retired. You need someone who can dig in or swing depending on the situation and we just don't have anyone coming through who can do that other than Prior who i really think should move up a spot. then at 7 you can go for a Morgan or Bairstow as the quick scoring option or you can bring in an extra bowler in the form of Bresnan to give you options.
England have had a fixed order for a long time now and it's not really giving us much by way of flexibility.
Finn - he needs to learn to bowl a fuller length on pitches like this. His normal length is marginally on the short side but is effective on quick bouncy wickets but when the pitch is slow he just gives away cheap runs. I know Broad has a lot of doubters but he bowled very well in the 2nd innings because he took his length about a foot closer so it wasn't dying in the pitch quite as much. When Broad was 22-23 he was encouraged to vary his deliveries and try bowling full and bouncers, etc. It made his figures poor for a while but has given him the ability to play the conditions, Finn needs to do the same and find a way of taking wickets on pitches he doesn't like.
To bring it all back round, this is why I like Bresnan, he's not a front line Anderson like wicket taker but he will get you 2-3 a match regardless of conditions and rarely goes at more than 3 an over.
Swann - yes he struggled at times but 4 wickets for 165 runs from 63 overs is perfectly acceptable for a spinner on a wicket that just didn't suit him, if it hadn't looked like it was going to turn massively on day 4 and 5 no one would be slating him. He did a good job of keeping the rate down and building pressure, he just couldn't turn it into wickets.
s for the 'australia have a better attack' comment, that's rubbish I'm afraid, Swann is better than Agar, Jimmy is light years ahead of Siddle, Broad is better than Pattinson and there's little between Finn and Starc. The latter 2 might go on to become very good bowlers but both, like Finn, need to learn how to offer something in bad conditions. Remember Australia bowled in this pitch in what turned out to be easily it's most dangerous phase on the first morning and it was only because of Siddle that they really got the most out of it.
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Nah, Anderson just had a bit of cramp, understandable given the heat. A few salt tablets and a couple of days rest and he'll be fine.
I wouldn't change the team, Finn will want to prove a point and Swann won't bowl that badly for the rest of his Test career.
The only change I'd consider would be to drop Bairstow who isn't contributing anything at the moment, maybe bring Morgan back for a bit of momentum down the order?
Swann has a surprising poor record in tests at Trent Bridge. He's taken 7 wickets in 4 tests on his home ground. At Edgbaston & Headingley he's taken 10 wickets in the same number of tests. None of these grounds are spin-friendly. At the Oval he's taken 24 wickets in the same number of tests.
I'm sure that as the series progresses he will be as important a bowler as Jimmy.
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Nah, Anderson just had a bit of cramp, understandable given the heat. A few salt tablets and a couple of days rest and he'll be fine.
I wouldn't change the team, Finn will want to prove a point and Swann won't bowl that badly for the rest of his Test career.
The only change I'd consider would be to drop Bairstow who isn't contributing anything at the moment, maybe bring Morgan back for a bit of momentum down the order?
Swann has a surprising poor record in tests at Trent Bridge. He's taken 7 wickets in 4 tests on his home ground. At Edgbaston & Headingley he's taken 10 wickets in the same number of tests. None of these grounds are spin-friendly. At the Oval he's taken 24 wickets in the same number of tests.
I'm sure that as the series progresses he will be as important a bowler as Jimmy.
The Edgbaston and Headingley stats are probably misleading because both generally setup a pitch that is ultra quick for the seamers. I'd guess Swann just doesn't bowl enough overs on them to take more wickets because the quicks bowl longer spells.
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The same squad for Lords, not a surprise really. I would like to see Tremlett involved, but I doubt that'll happen under we go down to Australia.
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Same squad is the right decision however some bowling load will need to be removed from Anderson's shoulders otherwise he could end up missing later test matches. Skipper requires and needs his other bowlers to be reliable and in the match just gone Finn let him down. Need more spin options as well later in August.
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I thought we didn't look quite right with Root at the top and Bairstow at 6. The latter is nothing more than one-day player with little or no technique for test-match level.
This is one of the few occasions where I'm fairly confident I've seen far more of a player to be able to state quite confidently that Bairstow is not merely a 'one-day player'. He's played some brilliant Innings in the County Championship when he's been allowed to play, he came into this Test having not played any cricket whatsoever for 35 days for some bizarre reason. Too early to judge Root and Cook as openers after one Test.
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Same squad is the right decision however some bowling load will need to be removed from Anderson's shoulders otherwise he could end up missing later test matches. Skipper requires and needs his other bowlers to be reliable and in the match just gone Finn let him down. Need more spin options as well later in August.
Root should be able to bowl some useful spin overs.
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FUCKING GET THE FUCK IN. JIMMY ANDERSON I THINK I FUCKING LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Was out and missed the cricket yesterday, did I miss much? :-)
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FUCKING GET THE FUCK IN. JIMMY ANDERSON I THINK I FUCKING LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Was out and missed the cricket yesterday, did I miss much? :-)
Nah, it was just like the first four days. A totally dull test match
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The same squad for Lords, not a surprise really. I would like to see Tremlett involved, but I doubt that'll happen under we go down to Australia.
My mate is physio at Surrey and he said that has always been the plan as his injury was more serious than reported and they're trying to bring him through slowly.
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I thought we didn't look quite right with Root at the top and Bairstow at 6. The latter is nothing more than one-day player with little or no technique for test-match level.
This is one of the few occasions where I'm fairly confident I've seen far more of a player to be able to state quite confidently that Bairstow is not merely a 'one-day player'. He's played some brilliant Innings in the County Championship when he's been allowed to play, he came into this Test having not played any cricket whatsoever for 35 days for some bizarre reason. Too early to judge Root and Cook as openers after one Test.
Agreed.
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I thought we didn't look quite right with Root at the top and Bairstow at 6. The latter is nothing more than one-day player with little or no technique for test-match level.
This is one of the few occasions where I'm fairly confident I've seen far more of a player to be able to state quite confidently that Bairstow is not merely a 'one-day player'. He's played some brilliant Innings in the County Championship when he's been allowed to play, he came into this Test having not played any cricket whatsoever for 35 days for some bizarre reason. Too early to judge Root and Cook as openers after one Test.
Agreed.
I like Bairstow but I don't think he's ready for test cricket yet. He doesn't rotate the strike well enough for me. If he's allowed to swing he's fine but when he has to stick around he gets frustrated too quickly because he's not scoring.
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Hence the lack of technique that I mentioned. its one thing being a flat-track bully around the County Championship circuit and quite a different thing doing it at teast level. As has been said, if he is given license to free his arms then he can produce some goods. Its when he isn't givne that freedom that he struggles and isn't good enough to stick around and build an innings.
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As has been said, if he is given license to free his arms then he can produce some goods. Its when he isn't givne that freedom that he struggles and isn't good enough to stick around and build an innings.
I've seen him stick around and build an innings when Yorkshire have been struggling, far from a 'flat-track bully'.
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Against a county attack. Huge step up. i'm not doubting he has ability but not for test level.
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Against a county attack. Huge step up. i'm not doubting he has ability but not for test level.
He's only played in 9 Test matches and hardly disgraced himself, the only reason I'm commenting on his batting ability is because I've watched him quite a lot, I have no idea what any of his rivals for the number 6 spot are like as I don't have SKY and don't watch any other counties but there don't seem to be many outstanding candidates. Garry Balance can't half hit a ball a long way, he's a fat lad but happy for him to continue to so it for the White Rose! Root opens for Yorkshire so it makes sense to have him open for England, he'll still be opening for them in 10 years.
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I think it's too early to judge Bairstow either way and he needs to be given an opportunity. Number 6 is not an easy position to come in and he's performed well a couple of times in his Test career. More importantly I think we need to look at the preparation he's afforded. In NZ he was dropped into the final Test having played no cricket and the 1st Test against Australia, he'd barely played in the previous month. It's not really fair on him to expect him to play at the highest standard with no preparation.
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I agree its not fair on him to drop him in and expect a wealth of runs. But his technique does not suggest that he is going to progress much further. But I'm more than hopeful that I'm wrong and I haven't seen as much of him as you have Chris, admittedly.
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I think Bairstow will become a decent test player, but he's in 2-3 years too soon as far as I'm concerned.
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Tremlett, Panesar & Stokes are training with the Squad at Lords.
Finn Under Pressure? (http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/current/story/651871.html)
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Mickey Arthur their old coach is suing Cricket Australia for unfair dismissal and the details have been leaked:
All is not well in the Crims World! (http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/651767.html)
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Interesting that they have Tremlett training with the squad.
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Lords tomorrow. Will Finn keep his place I wonder?
Aussies got a good record at HQ but we broke the spell in 2009.
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I don't think he will. I agree with PWA that it's interesting that Tremlett has joined up - Lords suits pace and bounce so it would be useful to have a look at Tremlett, just in case, as he's the best like-for-like replacement for Finn who, while the right kind of bowler, has obviously lost form fairly dramatically.
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England don't really have form from dropping people after 1 bad performance though, I think Finn will play but I think the call ups were very much with an eye on scaring him into a better performance.
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I think Finn should be given another go personally, but we'll see. If Harris comes in for the Aussies he'll improve them.
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Khawaja in for Cowan will improve that line up too.
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Khawaja in for Cowan will improve that line up too.
indeed and I am suprised he did not play in the first test.
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Batting first, we need to turn up in the first innings this time. Bresnan in, not overly happy about that.
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Bres in for Finn then, very surprised by that, I expected an unchanged side.
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The thing which annoys me about the England set up is we always turn to Bres as the safety option. He's a steady but unremarkable bowler and you can tell we just want to pad out the batting a bit. Still hope it works and we win, need to bat well in the first innings.
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Big mistake bringing Bresnan in here. If it were almost any other ground, I wouldn't object. However, it's Finn's home ground and his Test record is pretty good there. However, Bresnan has been very expensive here.
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The thing which annoys me about the England set up is we always turn to Bres as the safety option. He's a steady but unremarkable bowler and you can tell we just want to pad out the batting a bit. Still hope it works and we win, need to bat well in the first innings.
As I said before the first test, Bresnan's Test batting is pap if you take Bangladesh out of his stats. And yes you can do that. ;)
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Totally agree with Bresnan for Finn. A much better player who offers something extra.
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Big mistake bringing Bresnan in here. If it were almost any other ground, I wouldn't object. However, it's Finn's home ground and his Test record is pretty good there. However, Bresnan has been very expensive here.
I agree. Finn is a the much better strike bowler and will do more damage however he does need to sort his length.
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I think there's very little between Bresnan and Finn, they offer different things.
It is worth noting that Bresnan vs Australia has 11 with an average of 19.6 and an economy of 2.6
If he can keep his figures against them anywhere near those levels then it's the right decision.
Does seem backwards though as Finn bowls well at lords.
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Totally agree with Bresnan for Finn. A much better player who offers something extra.
Look at their records at Lords and I strongly disagree.
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Finn has 20 odd wickets at Lords at an average of 20.66 and Bresnan has 5 at 66. It's a potentially shocking decision.
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The thing which annoys me about the England set up is we always turn to Bres as the safety option. He's a steady but unremarkable bowler and you can tell we just want to pad out the batting a bit. Still hope it works and we win, need to bat well in the first innings.
As I said before the first test, Bresnan's Test batting is pap if you take Bangladesh out of his stats. And yes you can do that. ;)
no you can't, they're a test match nation so scores against them count towards your test match figures. You ca'nt base your opinion on statistics if you pick and choose which statistics you include. His official test match batting average is currently over 30, if that's higher than it should be then it will come down over time, and it probably will come down to the 26-27 that is his first class average, which is still slightly better than pap.
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Regardless Bresnan is not good enough in a 4 man attack, and I really worry about our bowling. Hopefully he'll turn up, but his record at Lords suggests he won't.
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There doesn't seem to be a cloud in the sky, why are they not starting till 11.15?
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I suspect Finn's confidence is shot and that the Aussie batsmen would have targeted him.
Bresnan offers the kind of workhorse option that we've lacked since the days of Matthew Hoggard. If necessary, Bresnan can hold down one end whilst we attack at the other via Jimmy, Broad and Swann.
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because of his height more than anything , and its his home ground, i would have thought that Finn wopuld have had another go. however, he was poor against Australia. Bresnan has been given the shirt and its up to him to keep it now. he can't produce less with the bat so it will be his bowling that needs to be telling in terms of a difference between the two.
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There doesn't seem to be a cloud in the sky, why are they not starting till 11.15?
It's because of the traditional visit of the Queen to the Lords test to meet the teams. She used to visit during the lunch interval on the 2nd day but it's been brought forward.
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Whilst the Bresnan - Finn discussions on here will go on and I'm a big fan of Bresnan, it's a bloody nice selection dilemma to have!
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There doesn't seem to be a cloud in the sky, why are they not starting till 11.15?
It's because of the traditional visit of the Queen to the Lords test to meet the teams. She used to visit during the lunch interval on the 2nd day but it's been brought forward.
What a load of bollocks. Germans don't even like cricket! If they can bring it forward a day, why not bring it forward by another fifteen minutes so they can start on time? Is she the only old person in Britain who doesn't like getting up early?
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Lords is often a fairly flat track, despite being quick it can be quite predictable. What Bresnan can do is dry up the runs at one end, agianst a number of the australians that will prompt them to take more risks against the other bowlers so whilst he may not contribute directly to the wickets he does help build the pressure where wickets become easier to get. I've said before I'd like him to be our 5th bowler with Prior moved up to 6 in the batting. The issue there is that you need 3-4 of the top 6 to get big runs then and i don't think we're confident of that.
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Just watching on Sky. Aggers nearly got trampled by the Aussie team
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It was funny seeing the MCC Members queuing outside of the ground to get a decent seat in their section.
I doubt that that bunch of toffs have queued for anything since they were fagging at Eton and were waiting to be spanked.
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My thoughts when Ryan Harris wasn't named in the first test was that it was a fitness thing as he's had problems with his fitness levels for a while...
So i find it quite funny that he's walking back looking fucked after 5 deliveries.
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If Harris is fit he's an excellent bowler.
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Great toss to win. Unfortunately, Cook fails to get a start. Trott's got a good chance to wipe away the miseries of the 1st Test.
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That's really poor from cook.
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Disasterous start, our opening partnership really needs to start making progress quickly.
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trott is going at 400%!
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LBW Watson ...now that is not very nice Mr Cook.
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Another poor start 2 down now not good enough
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Root's a touch unlucky there, think that could've gone either way, looks like bat and pad pretty much together.
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For fucks sake, this is a dreadful start. In their 3 innings together so far Cook and Root have done appallingly.
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Well this is going well.
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We are massively under the pump again here and once again the top order is failing.
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For fucks sake, this is a dreadful start. In their 3 innings together so far Cook and Root have done appallingly.
These sort of starts are common in test cricket. Could be 112-2 at Lunch...you never know.
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Fucking hell, three wickets in less than half an hour. Messed up a perfect batting opportunity.
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For fucks sake, this is a dreadful start. In their 3 innings together so far Cook and Root have done appallingly.
These sort of starts are common in test cricket. Could be 112-2 at Lunch...you never know.
112-3, hopefully.
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that's awful from KP, nowhere near good enough for a player of his quality. Warwickshire need to come to the rescue here.
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Fucking hell this a complete disaster, England should never ever bat first. I don't care what the pitch is, we just can't do it.
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Brilliant bowling from the Aussies.
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Bears to the rescue
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We essentially can't afford to lose another wicket today.
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For fucks sake, this is a dreadful start. In their 3 innings together so far Cook and Root have done appallingly.
These sort of starts are common in test cricket. Could be 112-2 at Lunch...you never know.
112-3, hopefully.
Fuck...well I should never trust the mega star that is KP.
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back to my post about our first innings batting. Awful. Putting the bowlers under pressure every time.
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Don't worry, Villa will save the day.
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Our top order batting has been consistently failing in at least one innings for a while now. It needs to be addressed.
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For fucks sake, this is a dreadful start. In their 3 innings together so far Cook and Root have done appallingly.
These sort of starts are common in test cricket. Could be 112-2 at Lunch...you never know.
112-3, hopefully.
Fuck...well I should never trust the mega star that is KP.
Flat-track bully nowadays. All very well and good racking up the runs against some second division county, but he's essentially in the same boat as Compton and Bairstow.
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Against SA our batting failed and again in NZ it failed and now it's failing here. We have a lot of players who aren't living up to their reputations.
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Well, thank God they didn't start at 11. We might be all out by now!
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I want James Taylor in our batting line up, fuck knows why he's been discarded but he can actually perform.
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The problem is the batsman with the worst record of the lot, based on talent, expectation, etc is Cook who has been poor for a year, but you can't drop the captain.
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Root isn't working at opener at the moment either. How many times in the past couple of years have we scored 400+ when batting first? Not enough I'd guess. There isn't anywhere near enough pressure for the batsmen to perform.
The batsmen stay in regardless of form unless you're not in the club like Compton, but the bowlers get dropped after one or two bad games.
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Root shouldn't be opening, but number three, where he would operate better, is Trott's domain. KP should come in lower down the order to improve; he comes in playing too many risky shots, and if your openers aren't performing, you won't have had enough of a start to give you the comfort zone of a natural big hitter like him.
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Root shouldn't be opening, but number three, where he would operate better, is Trott's domain. KP should come in lower down the order to improve; he comes in playing too many risky shots, and if your openers aren't performing, you won't have had enough of a start to give you the comfort zone of a natural big hitter like him.
Not really KP's fault though. He should be coming in to a ball that's 30-40 overs old and with well over 100 runs on the board, our openers have, as a unit, struggled for a while, Strauss was struggling before he retired and then we got away with it for a little while because Cook was in exceptional form but since his form dropped off we've looked poor.
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Root shouldn't be opening, but number three, where he would operate better, is Trott's domain. KP should come in lower down the order to improve; he comes in playing too many risky shots, and if your openers aren't performing, you won't have had enough of a start to give you the comfort zone of a natural big hitter like him.
Not really KP's fault though. He should be coming in to a ball that's 30-40 overs old and with well over 100 runs on the board, our openers have, as a unit, struggled for a while, Strauss was struggling before he retired and then we got away with it for a little while because Cook was in exceptional form but since his form dropped off we've looked poor.
It is and it isn't. I agree about the ball taking a pounding before Pietersen comes in, but he's been an international cricketer long enough to know he's got to adjust his natural game based on circumstance. He knows he's an important wicket for the opposition to take but doesn't come in with that attitude of getting his head down and rebuilding an innings.
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In fairness to Pietresen he managed to curb those instincts in the first Test and helped rebuild our second innings.
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Cook needs to go back to digging in and getting big centuries. I want Root in the side, but I wonder if they've moved him up too soon. It's hard to tell after 3 innings, but it's just my feeling at the moment.
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You can't learn to open in test cricket without being given the opportunity to learn. He's got the talent, that's clear to see he just needs to get some experience. I'd stick with Root for the full series and see how things look afterwards.
I agree that Cook really needs to look into what he's changed in his style to go from his form a couple of years ago to now.
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Cook needs to go back to digging in and getting big centuries. I want Root in the side, but I wonder if they've moved him up too soon. It's hard to tell after 3 innings, but it's just my feeling at the moment.
Varun Chopra might be better at opening than Root?
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I do feel that even if England retain the Ashes here, I still wouldn't like to call the Australia series.
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Cook needs to go back to digging in and getting big centuries. I want Root in the side, but I wonder if they've moved him up too soon. It's hard to tell after 3 innings, but it's just my feeling at the moment.
Varun Chopra might be better at opening than Root?
I'd like to see Chopra and Taylor pushing the batting line up.
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I still think Taylor's problem is that he's not great in the field. He's fine as a wicket keeper but he looked out of his depth being asked to field square of the wicket.
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He's not that poor though and it can be worked on.
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We really do these two to bat all day now, if we're going to be in a good position tonight.
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Decent recovery so far, I pretty much agree that we can't afford to lose either of them, mainly because I don't trust Bairstow to hang around if we do. Get to the end of the day and let bairstow come in tomorrow with the aim to score big and quick and he'll be fine.
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This is such a batting track.
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Nothing for the bowlers here. Trott and Bell concentrate, this could be over 250 by the end of the day.
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Those that are out should be embarrassed and need to look at themselves, this is 500+ wicket.
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I don't know what the weather's supposed to do on Saturday in London, but here it's sun all day tomorrow and a bit of cloud cover on Sat. If England bat all day today and pretty much all of tomorrow, the only issue could be when to declare in their second innings.
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Ah well, maybe Bairstow will finally prove me wrong.
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Now we're buried, shocking for Trott to get out when he's set. We are going to be so far short of par on this wicket.
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That Trott wicket is symptomatic of the England team now, no concentration or apetite to get big runs. Shocking and now it's time for Bairstow to turn up.
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really poor shot from Trott. Bell needs to bat through again and we need the rest to stick with him a little. As always 350+ gives you a target to bowl at, unless the pitch is a dog like the first test 300 should be the minimum.
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This pitch is easily 400+ our batsmen are completely letting us down again. Bairstow you are never going to have an easier wicket to bat on, so no excuses.
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Bloody hell this thread makes the Villa match threads look positively joyful!
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This pitch is easily 400+ our batsmen are completely letting us down again. Bairstow you are never going to have an easier wicket to bat on, so no excuses.
wait until both sides have batted, but still poor shots from Trott and Pietersen.....
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I'd back the Aussies to play a few rash shots too, but really this is nothing short of a big scoring track. Poor shot selection has killed us thus far. bell and bairstow need to knuckle down here. no more dismissals tonight.
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Whether the Aussies score big or not does not change the fact that this is a very easy wicket and it should be a big scoring wicket. Flat deck and fast outfield. Our batsmen need to go back to applying themselves and stop playing stupid shots.
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Good fifty Bell, you need to go onto a massive score now.
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As I said in reference to Bresnan being picked, on a wicket like this the surefire way to get wickets is to make the batsmen feel like they're not making the most of it and get them playing 50/50 shots to score. choke up the runs from 1 end, try to keep the same player on strike and get him not scoring for 15-20 deliveries and most batsmen will get nervous, even if if they're well set.
That doesn't account for any of our wickets really, it was just poor shot selection but they'll do some of those as well but we need to really stifle their scoring.
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Our shot selection has been dreadful, it smacks of misplaced arrogance in places.
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Poor shot, he's played across the line there.
Edit: he's a very lucky boy there - his bat was much further from the ball than Siddle's foot was from being behind the line. But thems the rules.
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Phew! That was close. Now score a ton, Jonny!
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Bairstow should learn immediately from that, he was clean bowled playing around a no ball. Keep your bat straight.
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get out of jail free card there.
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Bairstow really needs to knuckle down now, he's been given a life and he has to go on or questions will start to be asked.
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He has to stop playing across the line as he is frequently getting out that way.
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Now we're buried,
How many times do you this or similar during an England match on this thread?!
And how many times have you been proved wrong by one superb innings or a brilliant spell of bowling?
Have more faith Paul, we'll win this.
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It's an effort in jinxing! But in all seriousness we've fought back well, however we're still 220 short of a good score and we need to go on.
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Can't tell what a good score is until both sides have batted on it.
Besides, Australia will be batting last again, and if any side is just about hanging on in this series so far it's them with their two freakish last wicket stands. They won't keep doing that.
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Each time I look on this thread somebody is getting slaughtered, do any of you* actually enjoy the cricket?
* Not all of you obviously
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Bell sounds in top form and the Bairstow "wicket" may just kick him on...straight bat Jonny, straight bat...
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We need to bat out this session with Belly & Bairstow, don't do anything silly.
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We need to bat out this session with Belly & Bairstow, don't do anything silly.
I'd settle for 300-5, more than one wicket in this session swings it slightly back towards the Aussies.
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would like to see back to back tons for Bell but then I,m biased.
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would like to see back to back tons for Bell but then I,m biased.
Me too. I'm biased towards England.
Jokes aside, I'm also biased to Bell because he's such a fine player when he's in form, and it's good to see him putting in high scores at crucial times. Very impressive.
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If Bell gets his 100 he will be in elite company of Jack Hobbs and Wally Hammond in scoring centuries in three successive Ashes tests.....i hope that isnt the kiss of death for him.
A remarkable feat with his record against the Aussies
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Cant be dis-pleased with 236-4 after being 28-3.
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If Bell gets his 100 he will be in elite company of Jack Hobbs and Wally Hammond in scoring centuries in three successive Ashes tests.....i hope that isnt the kiss of death for him.
A remarkable feat with his record against the Aussies
Chris Broad done it as well - forgot him until Bumble just said on Sky
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The Aussies sent Warner away to Zimbabwe to join up with their 'A' team.....a major success against a Combined Select xi he was out for 9.
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Ian Bell you sodding beauty.
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A ton for Bell.
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Nice one Bell.
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Each time I look on this thread somebody is getting slaughtered, do any of you* actually enjoy the cricket?
* Not all of you obviously
PWA lives and dies with every ball. He would only be happy if England were 700 for 2 declared and Aussies 150 all out and following on 97 all out!
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Villain, Bear, outstanding batsman well done Sir.
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109 for bell same as last time i think?
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109 for bell same as last time i think?
Correct, and both tremendous innings. Didn't get out to a stupid shot either, just a decent ball. Well played Belly, now come on Bairstow and Prior.
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Bairstow gone.
The new ball is due, it's gonna be a tough last 30 minutes for England.
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Given that away, Bairstow. Full-toss, bollocksed it up and a good piece of fielding.
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That was bloody awful from Bairstow! Patting a full toss back to the bowler. Spoiled a decent innings as well.
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Each time I look on this thread somebody is getting slaughtered, do any of you* actually enjoy the cricket?
* Not all of you obviously
PWA lives and dies with every ball. He would only be happy if England were 700 for 2 declared and Aussies 150 all out and following on 97 all out!
Sounds like the Yorkshire members, they'll all be at Derbyshire grumbling because Yorkshire only got 617 and have let Debyshire get within 550 with only 5 wickets down. As for that young lad on 250 not out, what the hell is he playing at?
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When Broad came in, he was booed all of the way to the wicket.
Turns out it was Jimmy coming to the wicket..... as Tuffers has just said on TMS, how do you withdraw a boo?
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Stupid thrash by Prior... it's not T20! Why take the risk so late in the day??
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I think all in all it's a disappointing day for England. Runs on the board, but when Trott and Bell were in you could easily see 350, if not more.
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At 28 - 3 you'd have settled for 289 - 7.
If we could scrape another 50 runs from the last 3 wickets then we're in a good place.
Remember the Crims have still got to bat yet.
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Well played Bell a great knock. Hmmm Australia's day overall, if you elect to bat on a pitch like that you're not looking at being more than 4 down overnight. We really need to try and get as close to 400 as possible. There are obvious problems to address, 3 out of the top 4 have failed in two out of three innings which isn't good enough. Also we're losing clusters of wickets and to some stupid shots. Bairstow and Prior should never have got out today. We really need Anderson, Bresnan, Broad and Swann to get us some runs.
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What we aren't doing at the moment is setting a platform, we're relying on lower middle order heroics to get us a decent score. When we were at our best it was when the top order were getting massive runs at the top.
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I've got somebody I'd like dropping for all future Tests. Mark Nicholas.
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Ha yes indeed, he's pretty annoying.
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We need Bresnan, Broad and Swann to bat well tomorrow. Bresnan in particular needs to get runs as that's part of the reason he's been selected.
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Incidently I don't like this talk of the third umpire being able to overturn decisions regardless of reviews. The reviews add a tactical element of the game, but having the third umpire be able to overturn any decision takes too much away from the umpire.
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Lovely knock from Bell again, pretty disappointed with prior, that 3 out of 3 where he's played a silly shot and given his wicket away.
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Lovely knock from Bell again, pretty disappointed with prior, that 3 out of 3 where he's played a silly shot and given his wicket away.
Yes and he needs to look at that, the thing of 'it's his natural game' is bollocks. Play to the circumstances.
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Bairstow must start playing straighter, he got a decent score today but could easily have been out very cheaply with a various obvious technical problem.
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Good day really, nicely balance but if we can get to 325 then we can get at them.
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Hmmm Australia's day overall
How? At best it's even. England have got nearly 300 with 3 wickets in hand. Will get 350 and with a bit of luck close to 400. Runs in the bank and Aussies have to come out and bat well now.
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Bairstow must start playing straighter, he got a decent score today but could easily have been out very cheaply with a various obvious technical problem.
The way he got out twice today shows that he is not international material and unlikely to improve.
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Hmmm Australia's day overall
How? At best it's even. England have got nearly 300 with 3 wickets in hand. Will get 350 and with a bit of luck close to 400. Runs in the bank and Aussies have to come out and bat well now.
We'd be very lucky to get 400. This has 310 all out written on it.
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Hmmm Australia's day overall
How? At best it's even. England have got nearly 300 with 3 wickets in hand. Will get 350 and with a bit of luck close to 400. Runs in the bank and Aussies have to come out and bat well now.
On that pitch it's definitely Australia's day. If you chose to bat on a flat wicket with no cloud, you're looking at 400 certainly.
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As I said with a bit of luck.
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289-4 is good, 289-7 is ok at best.
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On that pitch it's definitely Australia's day. If you chose to bat on a flat wicket with no cloud, you're looking at 400 certainly.
Yes I agree but it's not like England are 160 for 7!
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No but it's still Australia's day. I'm not saying it's game over, but if you were offered the choice you'd take Australia's current position on that pitch over ours. Now we might bowl brilliantly and skittle them, but it doesn't change the fact that the batting unit isn't performing at the moment and hasn't done consistently for a while.
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No but it's still Australia's day. I'm not saying it's game over, but if you were offered the choice you'd take Australia's current position on that pitch over ours. Now we might bowl brilliantly and skittle them, but it doesn't change the fact that the batting unit isn't performing at the moment and hasn't done consistently for a while.
Fair comments. The Aussies are on top but from 27 - 3 our position is much better than I thought it would be after an hour of play.
Are you advocating changing the batsmen? There isn't any proven quality to bring in as replacement. Morgan has technical shortcomings and Bopara is not the answer.
I get the feeling that the likes of Cook & Trott are an innings away from a meaningful score. KP is playing his way back after injury and the jury is out on Root & Bairstow. I think Root will be a phenomenal player but I'm unsure about Bairstow.
I'd much rather have our line up that the Aussie line up.
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Firstly, that is Australia's best bowling attack they played today. Harris is a superb bowler but he just can't stay fit. Always worried about his inclusion. Pattinson will come good i'm certain and Siddle goes and goes all day. Watson as a genuine all-rounder allows them to play the extra batsman which they need. Shame we let Smith get them back into the game.
289-7 is Australia's day just about. Normally on a first day the batting team looks for 300+ runs in a day and the bowling team looks for 7+ wickets so it's fairly even. However, at 28-3 England would have been delighted to end the day on this score and at 263-4 the Aussies would have been delighted to get us 7 down so it's all relative.
I feel like every day I think, first hour is going to be crucial and yet again it will be. England must get up to 350 - else it really will be an opening for Australia to bat long and put us under real pressure. They bat down to 11.
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It does give me heart that our bowling attack has been more penetrative than theirs in all kinds of different conditions, and really the Aussies got wickets from nothing at all. I'd trust at least Anderson to have worked this wicket out fairly quickly.
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No but it's still Australia's day. I'm not saying it's game over, but if you were offered the choice you'd take Australia's current position on that pitch over ours. Now we might bowl brilliantly and skittle them, but it doesn't change the fact that the batting unit isn't performing at the moment and hasn't done consistently for a while.
Fair comments. The Aussies are on top but from 27 - 3 our position is much better than I thought it would be after an hour of play.
Are you advocating changing the batsmen? There isn't any proven quality to bring in as replacement. Morgan has technical shortcomings and Bopara is not the answer.
I get the feeling that the likes of Cook & Trott are an innings away from a meaningful score. KP is playing his way back after injury and the jury is out on Root & Bairstow. I think Root will be a phenomenal player but I'm unsure about Bairstow.
I'd much rather have our line up that the Aussie line up.
I'm not necessarily saying change the batting order, although I rate Taylor. I want the batsmen to show far more application, like Bell has. Prior, Cook, KP and even Trott have been out to daft shots and Root needs to get forward more.
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No but it's still Australia's day. I'm not saying it's game over, but if you were offered the choice you'd take Australia's current position on that pitch over ours. Now we might bowl brilliantly and skittle them, but it doesn't change the fact that the batting unit isn't performing at the moment and hasn't done consistently for a while.
Fair comments. The Aussies are on top but from 27 - 3 our position is much better than I thought it would be after an hour of play.
Are you advocating changing the batsmen? There isn't any proven quality to bring in as replacement. Morgan has technical shortcomings and Bopara is not the answer.
I get the feeling that the likes of Cook & Trott are an innings away from a meaningful score. KP is playing his way back after injury and the jury is out on Root & Bairstow. I think Root will be a phenomenal player but I'm unsure about Bairstow.
I'd much rather have our line up that the Aussie line up.
I'm not necessarily saying change the batting order, although I rate Taylor. I want the batsmen to show far more application, like Bell has. Prior, Cook, KP and even Trott have been out to daft shots and Root needs to get forward more.
Taylor looks technically strong and if Bairstow doesn't take his chance in this series then Taylor is worth a try.
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No but it's still Australia's day. I'm not saying it's game over, but if you were offered the choice you'd take Australia's current position on that pitch over ours. Now we might bowl brilliantly and skittle them, but it doesn't change the fact that the batting unit isn't performing at the moment and hasn't done consistently for a while.
Fair comments. The Aussies are on top but from 27 - 3 our position is much better than I thought it would be after an hour of play.
Are you advocating changing the batsmen? There isn't any proven quality to bring in as replacement. Morgan has technical shortcomings and Bopara is not the answer.
I get the feeling that the likes of Cook & Trott are an innings away from a meaningful score. KP is playing his way back after injury and the jury is out on Root & Bairstow. I think Root will be a phenomenal player but I'm unsure about Bairstow.
I'd much rather have our line up that the Aussie line up.
I'm not necessarily saying change the batting order, although I rate Taylor. I want the batsmen to show far more application, like Bell has. Prior, Cook, KP and even Trott have been out to daft shots and Root needs to get forward more.
Don't you think you should give credit to the bowling. They bowled well at us early on, great length for Lord's and Prior was always going to try and counter attack - sometimes it'll come off sometimes it won't, it's the way he plays and I don't have an issue with that.
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It was England's day until the Aussies brought that Koala bear on to bowl. The match has definitely swung in their favour but it won't be the last change of fortune in the match.
It's shaping up to be a good game. Excellent.
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No but it's still Australia's day. I'm not saying it's game over, but if you were offered the choice you'd take Australia's current position on that pitch over ours. Now we might bowl brilliantly and skittle them, but it doesn't change the fact that the batting unit isn't performing at the moment and hasn't done consistently for a while.
Fair comments. The Aussies are on top but from 27 - 3 our position is much better than I thought it would be after an hour of play.
Are you advocating changing the batsmen? There isn't any proven quality to bring in as replacement. Morgan has technical shortcomings and Bopara is not the answer.
I get the feeling that the likes of Cook & Trott are an innings away from a meaningful score. KP is playing his way back after injury and the jury is out on Root & Bairstow. I think Root will be a phenomenal player but I'm unsure about Bairstow.
I'd much rather have our line up that the Aussie line up.
I'm not necessarily saying change the batting order, although I rate Taylor. I want the batsmen to show far more application, like Bell has. Prior, Cook, KP and even Trott have been out to daft shots and Root needs to get forward more.
Don't you think you should give credit to the bowling. They bowled well at us early on, great length for Lord's and Prior was always going to try and counter attack - sometimes it'll come off sometimes it won't, it's the way he plays and I don't have an issue with that.
I don't have a problem with Prior countering, but he's getting out to stupid shots. He needs to be in before he starts accelerating. The Aussies as a unit did bowl well, but they didn't bowl well enough to have 7 down on that pitch.
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As I said yesterday, on any half decent pitch 350+ in the first innings gives you a good chance of having a lead when you bat again. If we can get up close to 350 (which is possible, Bresnan, Broad and Swann can all score runs and Anderson is well capable of occupying the crease at the other end for a while) I'll be fairly confident. The pitch is decent for batsmen but you can't discount the slope at lords, most of the wickets for the quicks were due to them not picking the line which is pretty common there.
If don't think we'll make it to lunchbut if we get through the first hour I'll be pretty happy with the innings, we do need Cook to step up soon though, he really needs a big score.
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Cook and Root need to start setting us a platform, at the moment they're not seeing off the new ball let alone setting a platform.
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I would add that I think Root will be a super player and I want him in the team, but he needs to work on being able to get forward to the ball.
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The merchants of doom will be out now - Bresnan out 1st ball of day!!!
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Well Bresnan has fully justified his place bolstering the batting, shocking.
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Bresnan is going to have to put in a stellar bowling performance now, because I think the only reason he sneeks in is batting. Finn, Onions, Tremlett are all better bowlers, particularly for Lords.
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300 up, come on lads let's get as many as possible. This looks like a great batting track.
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Pattinson is a lot like Finn, there's plenty of talent there but he throws some stinkers and really struggles to find a suitable length.
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that's terrible slip fielding from Watson, as poor as anything you'll see all series, but the writing was on the wall for Jimmy to edge one through but he's done his job, we need Swann and Broad to put 40-50 on though really, wouldn't want to come off under 350.
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Jimmy gone then. Swann and Broad really need something special here, the batting unit has let us down.
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Last wicket stand of at least 100, please.
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This wicket looks like it gives you great value as a batsmen.
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Case in point Swann and Broad are smashing it around.
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looks like they're trying to swat Harris out of the attack here.
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Broad & Swann are making it look quite easy 342 / 9 a decent score now anything added is a bonus. To win the game Aussies have to get 500+ and they aint capable.
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Broad & Swann are making it look quite easy 342 / 9 a decent score now anything added is a bonus. To win the game Aussies have to get 500+ and they aint capable.
Depends how you look at it, two low order players who are not in yet are making it look very easy. This is a 450+ pitch and we are still short, we may skittle Aussies but our batting needs to improve a lot.
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So we have hit 350, and I guess the top three or four can't bat that badly again? Mind you, I guess both sides will have big collapses over the two series.
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Fucking hell Broad is finally starting to bat to his potential.
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Broad & Swann have taken our total to a healthy level.
How nice to see them carting Siddle around the ground.
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Broad & Swann are making it look quite easy 342 / 9 a decent score now anything added is a bonus. To win the game Aussies have to get 500+ and they aint capable.
Depends how you look at it, two low order players who are not in yet are making it look very easy. This is a 450+ pitch and we are still short, we may skittle Aussies but our batting needs to improve a lot.
I want to win the series, yes would love 5 - 0 but to do that you have to be on your game every session of every game so i'll take each game as it comes and if because of a iffy first day and we have to settle for a draw so be it we still go to Old Trafford 1 - 0. We had a dodgy first day at Trent Bridge and went on to win the game. These Aussies aint that great.
361/9 now
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Biff. Biff. Biff.
Love it. They've done their bit. Anything more is a bonus.
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The Aussies aren't great, but I'd argue our batting unit hasn't turned up at all in any game yet. Bell has done brilliantly and the lower order have helped a lot.
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PGW, not many teams win every session. We only won one yesterday, but runs on the board are more valuable than wickets! But we're winning this session...
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Australia are falling into the same trap we did in the last test, which is to try to intimidate the lower order batsmen rather than just sticking to the plan. They given this pair far too much width and Broad and Swann have decided to just swing at everything and push the score up. I think 350 is competitive anywhere so I'm pretty happy with this, particularly given the situation this time yesterday. England deserve credit here, we've dug ourselves out to a competitive total.
Surely that's not out, it's got to be off his knee.
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361 all out from 28 - 3 will do for me.
Let's reserve judgement on how much of a batsman's paradise this pitch is until the Aussies have batted on it.
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Clearly I was wrong, the ecb youtube stream isn't the highest quality so maybe there was a nick that I couldn't see.
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Well that's that, 361 is reasonable but not good. Fortunately the lower order have got us up to something we can bowl at and hopefully they'll skittle the Aussies now.
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A fairly disappointing score given the track, but a very entertaining and profitable twenty minutes for England there. Anderson and Bresnan to open the bowling and let's whip out two before lunch. We'll all be much happier.
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A fairly disappointing score given the track, but a very entertaining and profitable twenty minutes for England there. Anderson and Bresnan to open the bowling and let's whip out two before lunch. We'll all be much happier.
Yeah I'd say that's a pretty good assessment, other than there's no chance Bresnan will open the bowling it'll be Broad.
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A fairly disappointing score given the track, but a very entertaining and profitable twenty minutes for England there. Anderson and Bresnan to open the bowling and let's whip out two before lunch. We'll all be much happier.
Yeah I'd say that's a pretty good assessment, other than there's no chance Bresnan will open the bowling it'll be Broad.
Just thinking as he's just come in from batting Bresnan might be more prepared.
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That first over from Jimmy shows that, even if this is a a nice wicket to bat on, there's enough pace and seam in this pitch for the bowlers to not feel to nervous about it.
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That first over from Jimmy shows that, even if this is a a nice wicket to bat on, there's enough pace and seam in this pitch for the bowlers to not feel to nervous about it.
It certainly suggests there's something for the Aussies to think about other than how many boundaries they can get today.
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Broad's unlucky there, you often see those given, was probably just a touch to high on the pads for the umpire's liking.
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Bresnan is being slaughtered.
Edit: not Bresnan, wasn't paying attention.
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Bresnan clearly bringing control. I really think we've dropped a massive bollock picking him, but hopefully he'll turn it round.
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Well that's that, 361 is reasonable but not good. Fortunately the lower order have got us up to something we can bowl at and hopefully they'll skittle the Aussies now.
361 is good. Not brilliant but good. England will only lose from here if Aussies turn into a super team and that they are not.
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Bresnan is just never ever the third seamer in a 4 man attack I'm afraid. I presume he performs badly he'll be chucked aside after one game like Finn was?
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I take it back! Well bowled Bresnan. Although I still think he'd be a good fourth seamer not a third.
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Good ball. Clarke has been asking for trouble since the first over with that front pad, and there's the result.
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Good ball. Clarke has been asking for trouble since the first over with that front pad, and there's the result.
If only it was Clarke!
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What a pathetic waste of a review, If I was Clarke/Lehmann I'd be furious with him over that, it was absolutely plumb.
Oh, and good job big Bres, important wicket a couple more of those and you've justified your selection.
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Bresnan clearly bringing control. I really think we've dropped a massive bollock picking him, but hopefully he'll turn it round.
It's a touch early to have typed that after 2 overs.
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Perfectly balanced but I reckon Swann will have fun with their left-handers after lunch as long as that blow he took on the arm isn't too bad.
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The Aussies sent Warner away to Zimbabwe to join up with their 'A' team.....a major success against a Combined Select xi he was out for 9.
Warner out for 11 today - bring him back and get him in the side!!!
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Perfectly balanced but I reckon Swann will have fun with their left-handers after lunch as long as that blow he took on the arm isn't too bad.
He looks ok hopefully.
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Good ball. Clarke has been asking for trouble since the first over with that front pad, and there's the result.
If only it was Clarke!
I'm on bloody fire today aren't I! But in all fairness, Watson and Harris could be twins, while Haddin looks like Bradman reincarnated. Anyone else got good Aussie lookalikes? There are seemingly a set number of faces that Aussies can have. I remember that Damien Martyn and Justin Langer could have been the same person.
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Ben Hilfenhaus and Matthew Wade look like twins.
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Is it safe to tune back into TMS yet, I believe an axis of evil based around the PM and rosy cheeked shit kickers Keane is present in the commentary box?
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Swann gets Rogers, big wicket.
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That's a ridiculous wicket.
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So it sounds! Hughes coming out number 4, that's interesting.
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Watson cost Australia that wicket, if they'd had 2 reviews left they definitely would have reviewed.
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Trotty you can't drop those.
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Christ that was barely a feather. Third Umpire must have been confident to give that out.
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Hughes gone! it's amazing how many batsmen are getting out on a pretty flat pitch, it must be pressure.
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Clarke is a massive wicket, we need to go him.
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22 Overs in and the Aussies have lost both of their reviews. You just know that DRS is going to play a part again.
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It's terrible reviewing from them.
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It's terrible reviewing from them.
Terrible shot selection as well - what was he thinking of then.....4 down
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Kawaja gone....
Top performance by the bowlers so far.
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Terrible shot from Khawaja, why hit it like that when you need to dig in.
As I said earlier, as nice as the pitch looks to bat on I think there's enough there for the bowlers so build some pressure and you'll get rewards.
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Lovely stuff Swann and Bell, and good captaincy from Cook - 86-5. That last wicket partnership this morning looking more and more important.
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And then there were 5
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Raining wickets. Can't decide whether we should enforce the follow-on or not.
😜
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And clarke gone - absolute belter of a delivery from Broad, the pitch can be as flat as you like, deliveries like that will always get you wickets.
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What an important wicket. Great delivery by Broad.
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Popped out for an hour, the Aussies are fucked. Good stuff.
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Blimey. 91-6
Who'd 'a' believed it.
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The important thing here is that most of the wickets (for both sides) have come from deliveries on a length that Finn doesn't bowl, the inclusion of Bresnan is looking a better decision by the hour right now. I have nothing agianst Finn but I think the selectors deserve some credit for that decision.
It's also interesting to note that after Gilchrist said we were over-reliant on Jimmy (and a fair few England fans agreed) the other 3 have taken the wickets so far. Broad in particular has looked very good all day.
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The important thing here is that most of the wickets (for both sides) have come from deliveries on a length that Finn doesn't bowl, the inclusion of Bresnan is looking a better decision by the hour right now. I have nothing agianst Finn but I think the selectors deserve some credit for that decision.
It's also interesting to note that after Gilchrist said we were over-reliant on Jimmy (and a fair few England fans agreed) the other 3 have taken the wickets so far. Broad in particular has looked very good all day.
Paul I think you and I are the only Bresnan advocates on here.
Not that I'm feeling smug you understand.......
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The important thing here is that most of the wickets (for both sides) have come from deliveries on a length that Finn doesn't bowl, the inclusion of Bresnan is looking a better decision by the hour right now. I have nothing agianst Finn but I think the selectors deserve some credit for that decision.
It's also interesting to note that after Gilchrist said we were over-reliant on Jimmy (and a fair few England fans agreed) the other 3 have taken the wickets so far. Broad in particular has looked very good all day.
It seems remarkable the Broad has looked so fluent barely a week after it looked like his arm was going to drop off.
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So do we enforce the follow on and get this wrapped up tonight?
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The important thing here is that most of the wickets (for both sides) have come from deliveries on a length that Finn doesn't bowl, the inclusion of Bresnan is looking a better decision by the hour right now. I have nothing agianst Finn but I think the selectors deserve some credit for that decision.
It's also interesting to note that after Gilchrist said we were over-reliant on Jimmy (and a fair few England fans agreed) the other 3 have taken the wickets so far. Broad in particular has looked very good all day.
It seems remarkable the Broad has looked so fluent barely a week after it looked like his arm was going to drop off.
It's also sending a message to the Aussies that we can bowl them out without Jimmy. He has only bowled 6 overs and hasn't bowled since before Lunch.
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too be fair, England do have a "twelfth man".....
the Australian use of the DRS...
lol
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So do we enforce the follow on and get this wrapped up tonight?
There's a trend away from enforcing the follow on. There's a chance we'll bat again to give our batsmen the chance to find some form and rub their noses in it a little longer.
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So do we enforce the follow on and get this wrapped up tonight?
There's a trend away from enforcing the follow on. There's a chance we'll bat again to give our batsmen the chance to find some form and rub their noses in it a little longer.
plus it will be better to bowl last on that pitch, as it is being baked in that sun...
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Blimey. 91-6
Who'd 'a' believed it.
I would have. Australia are shit.
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So do we enforce the follow on and get this wrapped up tonight?
No for a number of reasons.
Not enough runs ahead. Should be 300+
It's hot out there bowlers need rest.
Do not want to bat in 4th innings on this pitch.
And it's the only chance they can have of staging recovery.
Bat again to morally destroy them and than bowl em out.
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So do we enforce the follow on and get this wrapped up tonight?
There's a trend away from enforcing the follow on. There's a chance we'll bat again to give our batsmen the chance to find some form and rub their noses in it a little longer.
plus it will be better to bowl last on that pitch, as it is being baked in that sun...
Yeah, I'd veer away from the follow on. Break this partnership and England will be batting again tonight.
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Agar run out...brilliant!
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Agar doo doo doo, he got lucky on debut. Agar doo doo doo missed a century by two!
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So do we enforce the follow on and get this wrapped up tonight?
No for a number of reasons.
Not enough runs ahead. Should be 300+
It's hot out there bowlers need rest.
Do not want to bat in 4th innings on this pitch.
And it's the only chance they can have of staging recovery.
Bat again to morally destroy them and than bowl em out.
Plus Swann just got a huge amount of turn out of the footmarks; it ended up in front of 1st slip.
Often, the key to an Ashes series victory is mental strength against mental disintegration. If we bat on and bat long they will start to see the series slip away from them.
They did it to us for long enough; time we returned the favour.
-
So do we enforce the follow on and get this wrapped up tonight?
No for a number of reasons.
Not enough runs ahead. Should be 300+
It's hot out there bowlers need rest.
Do not want to bat in 4th innings on this pitch.
And it's the only chance they can have of staging recovery.
Bat again to morally destroy them and than bowl em out.
Plus Swann just got a huge amount of turn out of the footmarks; it ended up in front of 1st slip.
Often, the key to an Ashes series victory is mental strength against mental disintegration. If we bat on and bat long they will start to see the series slip away from them.
They did it to us for long enough; time we returned the favour.
indeed...with interest !!
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Strange to think that the Aussies almost went in to lunch 42 without loss.
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104/8......
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I'm loving this particularly as I work for an Australian company!
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I'm loving this particularly as I work for an Australian company!
Do not love it too much, show a bit of condescending pity they will hate that ;)
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I'm loving this particularly as I work for an Australian company!
I feel a drink in the Aussie Bar is required....
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Back to the question of the follow-on.
The one thing that could make us enforce the follow-on could be the forecasted cloud cover for tomorrow. They expect the sun to burn it off by lunch but the ball swings more at Lords under cloud. It's so different when the sun comes out. The ball can stop swinging in an instant.
I'd love a pop at them in those conditions.
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9 down.....104/9
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I'm loving this particularly as I work for an Australian company!
Do not love it too much, show a bit of condescending pity they will hate that ;)
I send several emails of that ilk to Aussie colleagues last weekend!
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Don't follow on, just bad them into utter oblivion and give the crowd over the next two days some cricket to watch. If we enforce the follow on this wil be over by tea tomorrow.
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104-9 superb stuff
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Don't follow on, just bad them into utter oblivion and give the crowd over the next two days some cricket to watch. If we enforce the follow on this wil be over by tea tomorrow.
Good point but let's show them no mercy.
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Don't follow on, just bad them into utter oblivion and give the crowd over the next two days some cricket to watch. If we enforce the follow on this wil be over by tea tomorrow.
Good point but let's show them no mercy.
I think making them try to bat out two whole days just to save the match is showing them no mercy.
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Come on Swanny, get a five-fer and you will be truly Hedley Verityesque.
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I think bat on even if we get them out, this pitch is only going downhill. Got to say well bowled by us, really good stuff but Australia have played some truly atrocious shots. This pitch has no demons and they have been absolutely woeful.
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Oh and guess we're not over reliant on Jimmy. Broad has bowled superbly today and hasn't been rewarded really.
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We've dropped a couple of dolly's today.
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Swanny five-fer. Brilliant fielding performance.
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128 ao, nice one
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128 all out. That partnership was getting bloody annoying!
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And a 5-fer for Swann. Well bowled.
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And a 5-fer for Swann. Well bowled.
Yes I thought he blew it when he dropped it the over before.
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And a 5-fer for Swann. Well bowled.
First spin bowler to get a five-fer at Lords since Verity in case you were wondering.
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I'd have followed on if there had been any chance of rain, but there isn't. Grind them into the parched turf!
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I think in this heat you want to give the bowlers a break, get at least 250 and then have the 2+ days to kill them off.
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Couple of thoughts, we really need Root and Cook to get some runs as a partnership to build for the future. Second thought, I think Ryan Harris is a great bowler but it's this sort of thing that is killing his career through injury, being back in the field in the evening after bowling a team out in the morning.
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Once again, indecision between 'keeper and first slip.
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Root is very lucky to still be there, he really needs to learn to get forward. I know he's a back foot player but he's getting dismissed and nearly dismissed on the back foot all the time. It was a really poor short. As I said I rate Root, but he needs to address this.
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Cook fails again, he really needs to get going.
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Been out all day with my son who was on a school trip to Headingley, everybody I was chatting to was saying how enjoyable the Test series has been so far. I should point them to this thread where you'd think it has all been bloody rubbish!
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Root is struggling here.
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Trott gone played on as well, hmmmm.
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The top three really needs to start turning up, it may not matter here(hopefully) but they're not performing.
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this is not good, Belly needs to pull another 100 out of his arse.
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KP turn up please.
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Very disappointing from Alistair Cook so far this series.
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The batsmen look like they're lacking focus(Bell excepted), almost like they think it's too easy. They really need to knuckle down and get some runs. Our top 4 as a unit have been really really poor so far and they need to improve a lot. The bowlers have done fantastically well.
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For fucks sake Pietersen you fucking idiot. Our top 4 have been absolutely atrocious so far this series and they need to look at themselves. Australia are just getting back into the game here.
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Fuck me KP, that really is shit.
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That's terrible. Really terrible.
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The batsmen(Bell excepted) on both sides should be fucking ashamed of themselves.
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Terrible shot. Agree with everything that has been said about England's top 4.
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Australia have a sniff in this game now, and they really really shouldn't have. Dreadful batting from England. If I were in the bowling unit I'd be be having some strong words.
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KP needs to be dropped.
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KP needs to be dropped.
No more than Cook does. None of them need to be dropped, they just need to get their focus back as they've been fucking rubbish.
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Is this really a 16 wickets in a day pitch?
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Not a chance, it's really poor batting.
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It's decent bowling from both sides but that's it.
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KP needs to be dropped.
I am not his biggest fan but to many times when we need him to play for the team he doesn't.
No more than Cook does. None of them need to be dropped, they just need to get their focus back as they've been fucking rubbish.
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Is this really a 16 wickets in a day pitch?
Its not a 6 wicket pitch.
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The batsmen need to start playing Test innings again, because it's been dreadful.
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Ever since Graham Gooch has been our batting coach we've been on the slide a bit.
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in 15 completed innings Englands top 4 have 3 50s and no centuries, that's pretty terrible given their pedigree. However given the conditions at Trent Bridge and the fact that only Bell from either team has looked comfortable on this wicket it suggests thatthe bowling and pitches have had a bigger say than the batting in the series so far. I'm pretty happy with that as good bowling and batsmen never being 'safe' makes for great test cricket.
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last over of the day
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31-3 still well balanced but England should regroup for tomorrow and get a good lead, 400 plus... great stuff to watch.
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Ever since Graham Gooch has been our batting coach we've been on the slide a bit.
Yep he was shit at Essex as well.
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Well the last hour was a bit mystifying, especially the nightwatchman when you are 260 runs ahead.
In a great position though, even if we lost the last 7 wickets for 0 runs then Australia would still have to score more than double the amount they got in the first innings, which is highly unlikely.
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Well the last hour was a bit mystifying, especially the nightwatchman when you are 260 runs ahead.
In a great position though, even if we lost the last 7 wickets for 0 runs then Australia would still have to score more than double the amount they got in the first innings, which is highly unlikely.
I'm not surprised with the nightwatchman, Bell was next out and as our only genuinely in form batsman we didn't want to lose him late in the day.
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Well the last hour was a bit mystifying, especially the nightwatchman when you are 260 runs ahead.
In a great position though, even if we lost the last 7 wickets for 0 runs then Australia would still have to score more than double the amount they got in the first innings, which is highly unlikely.
It's still a good pitch, sides with a bit of application and endurance (admittedly probably not this Australian side) should be able to cash in.
There have been some pretty weird second innings scores in the past few years at Lords. Sri Lanka made 190 odd in 2006 first up and then saved the game with 500+
Even the Aussies got 400 second time around in 2009.
Hopefully Root can get at least 40-60, and ease some of the pressure up top. He'll be the long term choice for one of the opening slots, no question. But it's hard to know how to play it sometimes. The only way he can get experience is to face the rough patch he's enduring at present, but if it goes on too long, confidence can dip and you end up damaging a young player.
I was thinking of Michael Carberry if Root needs to go down back down the order, as opposed to Compton who has looked like a nervous wreck in his lat few England outings. But then I read that Carberry has only managed one century in county cricket in the last two years.
Sometimes it's not always about big runs though, body language and setting the tempo is as much apart of it as anything else. If a Carberry (or similar) was coming in and getting 40/50 at the top of the order (similar to what Shane Watson is doing) that might be enough if Cook, Trott and KP start to weigh in with runs too. The latter two aren't at the moment, obv. But they are coming into proceedings far too early on a regular basis.
You might expect 3 or 4 to be coming in early once every 3 to 4 innings. Not every innings. That's the biggest issue for the batters at present.
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The last line is the key for me, we need the openers to soak up 20-25 overs on a regular basis so Trott and KP are coming in against an older ball.
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Our batsmen really need to show some application today, because we need to get into a position where we cannot possibly lose.
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Decent start to the day by Root and Bresnan. Can see the benefit of bringing in a night watchman who can actually bat here. 300 lead already and the in form Bell the next man here. Would already take an almighty collapse to put is in a position where we could possibly lose.
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Cant see us loosing from here unless all the top order batsmen inb the aussie team have a screamer.
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Our batsmen really need to show some application today, because we need to get into a position where we cannot possibly lose.
That position was achieved last night!
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Cant see us loosing from here unless all the top order batsmen inb the aussie team have a screamer.
I think more likely is their tail end digging in and making us work for a victory on the final day after their top order surrender again on current form.
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We're doing everything right, consolidating our lead and setting it up for victory while allowing the bowlers (Bresnan excepted) time to recharge their batteries but, particularly after the last test where there was so much ebb and flow, it doesn't make for particularly entertaining viewing.
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We're doing everything right, consolidating our lead and setting it up for victory while allowing the bowlers (Bresnan excepted) time to recharge their batteries but, particularly after the last test where there was so much ebb and flow, it doesn't make for particularly entertaining viewing.
I'm enjoying it. It puts Clarke under the spotlight a bit.
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Nice to see Bresnan putting a bit of a score together as the nightwatchman, this is a rare chance for him to bat with a top order batsman and with no great pressure, I still think he could easily bat 7 for us if we nudged prior up a spot.
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Think Bresnan is doing great, He started off defending just to stay there and do his job, now hes starting to score runs. hope he gets his 50.
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I'd like us to accelerate a bit soon, 450 lead at tea would be perfect, then come out swinging for an hour or so and give them a nasty 10 overs at the end of the day with a 500+ lead.
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I'd like us to accelerate a bit soon, 450 lead at tea would be perfect, then come out swinging for an hour or so and give them a nasty 10 overs at the end of the day with a 500+ lead.
Well we will have 2 days at them, even if we bat all day.
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Bres gone, it's a shame but he did a really good job there, deserved more than 38 for me.
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The standard decision making from the 4th Umpire so far in this series has been shocking.
Bell was clearly out caught then, that ball carried to Smith.
I reckon it's time to pick the best 4 Umpires in the world regardless of where they are from and have them stand in a series as big as the Ashes.
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Bloody rubbish Root, what is he playing at?
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This is ridiculous from Root, he needs to dig in.
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This is ridiculous from Root, he needs to dig in.
I reckon him and his brother are switching clothes at each interval, that's why he/they still looks so fresh.
He/they can cut out all that smiling as well, don't they realise it's a serious business?
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He/they can cut out all that smiling as well, don't they realise it's a serious business?
Sickening isn't it, he's not supposed to enjoy it.
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What a good day for England.
Bresnan & Root played sensibly and batted the Aussies out of the game. Then Bell & Root ground them into the dirt.
Delighted to see such a big hundred from Root; he will be a mainstay of the England side for many years to come. Listening to Messrs Boycott & Vaughan on TMS, Root is the first in a long line of similar players from the Yorkshire Academy. Vaughan has been raving about Root for a couple of years and if there are more like him then we should be in for a good strong batting line up in the years to come.
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Why are England still batting?
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Why are England still batting?
I reckon it's about the mental disintegration of the Aussies. It's the kind of thing that they did to us in successive series over the best part of 20 years so it's nice to see them on the receiving end.
Plus there's still 2 days to go!
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Why are England still batting?
I reckon it's about the mental disintegration of the Aussies. It's the kind of thing that they did to us in successive series over the best part of 20 years so it's nice to see them on the receiving end.
Plus there's still 2 days to go!
It's also been back to back tests, letting the bowlers put their feet up for the day is a sensible move.
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Monumental knock from young Root, only thing better than getting a hundred at Lords in the Ashes is to get a daddy hundred.
Should put an end to the debate about opening partnerships for a while.
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Can we now start talking about how we should reduce the number of tests we give Australia, as they clearly are not up to scratch?
Please?
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I have been at work all day and on the way home TMS said KP is injured ?? is anyone able to update me on this please, I would be very grateful..
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I have been at work all day and on the way home TMS said KP is injured ?? is anyone able to update me on this please, I would be very grateful..
Calf strain. Won't field in this match and very doubtful for Old Trafford
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I have been at work all day and on the way home TMS said KP is injured ?? is anyone able to update me on this please, I would be very grateful..
Calf strain. Won't field in this match and very doubtful for Old Trafford
Cheers fredm........How has he got a calf strain ?? He hasnt batted for long and seemed fine when he took that catch to close the Aussie's 1st innings anyway who to replace him I would go James Taylor as if you bring back Compton it means moving Root
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I have been at work all day and on the way home TMS said KP is injured ?? is anyone able to update me on this please, I would be very grateful..
I think he has strained his ego.
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I have been at work all day and on the way home TMS said KP is injured ?? is anyone able to update me on this please, I would be very grateful..
Calf strain. Won't field in this match and very doubtful for Old Trafford
Cheers fredm........How has he got a calf strain ?? He hasnt batted for long and seemed fine when he took that catch to close the Aussie's 1st innings anyway who to replace him I would go James Taylor as if you bring back Compton it means moving Root
There's a few days before the 3rd test so he's got time to recover.
I wonder if Morgan is ahead of Taylor?
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I have been at work all day and on the way home TMS said KP is injured ?? is anyone able to update me on this please, I would be very grateful..
Calf strain. Won't field in this match and very doubtful for Old Trafford
Cheers fredm........How has he got a calf strain ?? He hasnt batted for long and seemed fine when he took that catch to close the Aussie's 1st innings anyway who to replace him I would go James Taylor as if you bring back Compton it means moving Root
There's a few days before the 3rd test so he's got time to recover.
I wonder if Morgan is ahead of Taylor?
I am fairly certain Morgan is injured......He broke a finger in the Champions Trophy and I dont think he is fit yet and he isnt playing for Middlesex currently
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I have been at work all day and on the way home TMS said KP is injured ?? is anyone able to update me on this please, I would be very grateful..
Calf strain. Won't field in this match and very doubtful for Old Trafford
Cheers fredm........How has he got a calf strain ?? He hasnt batted for long and seemed fine when he took that catch to close the Aussie's 1st innings anyway who to replace him I would go James Taylor as if you bring back Compton it means moving Root
There's a few days before the 3rd test so he's got time to recover.
I wonder if Morgan is ahead of Taylor?
I am fairly certain Morgan is injured......He broke a finger in the Champions Trophy and I dont think he is fit yet and he isnt playing for Middlesex currently
I didn't know that.
Taylor it is then.
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I have been at work all day and on the way home TMS said KP is injured ?? is anyone able to update me on this please, I would be very grateful..
Calf strain. Won't field in this match and very doubtful for Old Trafford
Cheers fredm........How has he got a calf strain ?? He hasnt batted for long and seemed fine when he took that catch to close the Aussie's 1st innings anyway who to replace him I would go James Taylor as if you bring back Compton it means moving Root
There's a few days before the 3rd test so he's got time to recover.
I wonder if Morgan is ahead of Taylor?
I am fairly certain Morgan is injured......He broke a finger in the Champions Trophy and I dont think he is fit yet and he isnt playing for Middlesex currently
I didn't know that.
Taylor it is then.
Cricinfo reporting that Morgan is fit and has been training with the England squad.
Eoin Morgan (http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/653629.html)
If he plays for Middlesex between now and the start of the Old Trafford test then I think he will get the nod ahead of Taylor.
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I think we'll let Root try for a double century and declare early on, probably fair, he's played beautifully today, left it a bit later than I expected to accelerate the run rate but that's absolutely unimportant. I wanted us to get well over 500 and they've done that with change. I'd also have liked to have seen Australia have 7-8 tricky overs at the end of the day but with Root still there I can totally understand that not happening.
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I have been at work all day and on the way home TMS said KP is injured ?? is anyone able to update me on this please, I would be very grateful..
Calf strain. Won't field in this match and very doubtful for Old Trafford
Cheers fredm........How has he got a calf strain ?? He hasnt batted for long and seemed fine when he took that catch to close the Aussie's 1st innings anyway who to replace him I would go James Taylor as if you bring back Compton it means moving Root
There's a few days before the 3rd test so he's got time to recover.
I wonder if Morgan is ahead of Taylor?
I am fairly certain Morgan is injured......He broke a finger in the Champions Trophy and I dont think he is fit yet and he isnt playing for Middlesex currently
I didn't know that.
Taylor it is then.
Cricinfo reporting that Morgan is fit and has been training with the England squad.
Eoin Morgan (http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/653629.html)
If he plays for Middlesex between now and the start of the Old Trafford test then I think he will get the nod ahead of Taylor.
Well if he is fit I reckon he should have been playing in the Championship game that Middlesex have just won as Morgan hasnt played any "longer form" cricket in weeks and Middlesex only have T20 games between now and the 3rd Test (as do all the counties)
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Bring in Gary Ballance and let Yorkshire lead the way ;)
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Can we now start talking about how we should reduce the number of tests we give Australia, as they clearly are not up to scratch?
Please?
Ahaaa..I was thinking this earlier as I remember they suggested in early 2000's that playing England was no longer a challenge and therefore number of tests in Ashes series should be reduced!
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Bring in Gary Ballance and let Yorkshire lead the way ;)
Wish I could remember the name of the kid who has scored a century for the 2nd's this season, chap who has worked for Yorkshire for years and been watching since the 50's reckons he's going to be the best of the lot. Much as I'd love Root, Bairstow and Bresnan to be playing for Yorkshire they are doing alright without them. Delighted for Joe Root, really hope he gets his double century.
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Why are England still batting?
I reckon it's about the mental disintegration of the Aussies. It's the kind of thing that they did to us in successive series over the best part of 20 years so it's nice to see them on the receiving end.
Plus there's still 2 days to go!
This. Read Steve Waugh's autobiography about his and Border's approach and the concept of 'mental disintegration',akin to Bomber Harris' opinion of the bombing of Dresden.
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This. Read Steve Waugh's autobiography about his and Border's approach and the concept of 'mental disintegration',akin to Bomber Harris' opinion of the bombing of Dresden.
Yes ok but leaving absolutely no chance of escape and winning the game is much more likely to mentally damage the opposition than setting a huge target and eating up time that could lead to a draw. Also if England are waiting for Root to get his double century than that would be highly unprofessional.
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Great bit of cricket from England today, well done Joe
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Well played Joe, got to win from here. I'd rather KP wasn't injured, but I'd have Taylor in personally.
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Can we now start talking about how we should reduce the number of tests we give Australia, as they clearly are not up to scratch?
Please?
Ahaaa..I was thinking this earlier as I remember they suggested in early 2000's that playing England was no longer a challenge and therefore number of tests in Ashes series should be reduced!
Perhaps Australia could merge with New Zealand to make more of a game of it?
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Absolutely bloody ludicrous that they still haven't declared.
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Absolutely bloody ludicrous that they still haven't declared.
I think they're waiting to see root get a double.
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Good day of sport today with the tour de France,the Ashes and the Open all due to complete. hope Westwood had a good nights sleep.
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Absolutely bloody ludicrous that they still haven't declared.
No it isnt, grind them into the dust, keep them in the field for as long as possible, give the bowlers a good rest. give their openers only 10 mins prep time...........
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Bairstow goes for20
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Absolutely bloody ludicrous that they still haven't declared.
No it isnt, grind them into the dust, keep them in the field for as long as possible, give the bowlers a good rest. give their openers only 10 mins prep time...........
We've ground them into the dust. The bowlers have had a whole night's rest. Now our wicket-keeper and, if we lose any more wickets, our bowlers will have had less preparation time as they're batting.
I could understand waiting for Root to get to 200 if he started the day on 190, but 178? That's not even particularly close.
Even more insane is that, three overs in a row, England have taken singles off the last ball to deny Root the strike. What the Hell's the point in that?
The way I see it there are two possibilities:
(i) the ball is moving. We should definitely declare to take advantage of the conditions.
(ii) the ball isn't moving. We should definitely declare to give ourselves two full days to get the Convicts out.
He's gone now, what a waste of time that was.
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They only wasted 20 mins, Cant see that costing us.
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Well, that was a wasted 20 minutes.
Given England's tactics, I'd almost like to see the Aussies bat thro' the next two days and save the match
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I think it was worth a shot.
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They only wasted 20 mins, Cant see that costing us.
I very much doubt it will. But why take the chance? I expect it never crossed the Aussies' minds that Anderson and Panesar could survive for in excess of an hour at Cardiff. Odd things can happen.
Does anyone know why Bairstow and Prior were taking singles off the last ball of the over to deny Root the strike? Mental.
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It was stupid getting singles off the last ball of an over i agree. as for the aussie second innings. they have to survive 2 days.
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It was stupid getting singles off the last ball of an over i agree. as for the aussie second innings. they have to survive 2 days.
Two days less twenty minutes.
😉
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It was stupid getting singles off the last ball of an over i agree. as for the aussie second innings. they have to survive 2 days.
Two days less twenty minutes.
😉
he he
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It's like being trapped in a room with Yorkshire members in this thread at times. I just picture those two blokes from the Muppets when reading some of the comments.
Nobody seems to have commented on Ian Bell 's reluctance to walk when he was caught.
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Watson gone. A review would be pointless.
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Watson gone. A review would be pointless.
Would have been funny though.......
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Watson gone. A review would be pointless.
Would have been funny though.......
they dont seem to use it very well do they?
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What have Australia come to when their number 3, in an Ashes series, averages 27 without a Test hundred to his name.
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Watson gone. A review would be pointless.
Would have been funny though.......
they dont seem to use it very well do they?
They have no idea and they dont seem to have learnt from the 1st test
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They should let them play 'last man stands'.
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Well, that was a wasted 20 minutes.
Given England's tactics, I'd almost like to see the Aussies bat thro' the next two days and save the match
It was but how often is Root going to have a chance to get a double hundred at Lords? We're well in control, know we can bowl them out and have almost 2 days to do it.
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Swanny on with only 10 overs gone.
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BINGO!!!!
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Next...........
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Well, that was a wasted 20 minutes.
Given England's tactics, I'd almost like to see the Aussies bat thro' the next two days and save the match
It was but how often is Root going to have a chance to get a double hundred at Lords? We're well in control, know we can bowl them out and have almost 2 days to do it.
Until his last ball, England didn't play in a way that suggested that getting Root to 200 was the reason they were out there.
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If Swann turns it any more it'll start coming back to him.
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Well, that was a wasted 20 minutes.
Given England's tactics, I'd almost like to see the Aussies bat thro' the next two days and save the match
It was but how often is Root going to have a chance to get a double hundred at Lords? We're well in control, know we can bowl them out and have almost 2 days to do it.
Until his last ball, England didn't play in a way that suggested that getting Root to 200 was the reason they were out there.
Yet they declared the moment he was out, which suggests it was the plan it just didn't come off.
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Another bad review
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Aussies seem to be playing for themselves rather than the team.
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Next........
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Listening to Adam Gilchrist at lunch.
I really don't understand people pining for the days when more incorrect decisions were being made.
Getting the right result is far more important than the flow of the game.
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Listening to Adam Gilchrist at lunch.
I really don't understand people pining for the days when more incorrect decisions were being made.
Getting the right result is far more important than the flow of the game.
It's a balance, isn't it. Too much delay does disrupt the game, having taken a wicket a bowler wants to get his next delivery in as quickly as possible and appeals can prevent that. So, while I agree it's important to get it right, retaining the flow of the game is also a factor.
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Youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk !!
Sorry, I meant ................................... Rooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot !!!!!
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Bit selfish of Root to not give anyone else a chance at motm here.
I think this could be game over today now, they really needed one of Clarke and Khawaja to bat all day to make it to the 5th day which i'm sure they'd have been targeting.
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I wasn't sure about that one but snicko sent him on his way.
I wonder if Hotspot is useless above a certain temperature?
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I wasn't sure about that one but snicko sent him on his way.
I wonder if Hotspot is useless above a certain temperature?
Snicko isnt part of DRS........
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I wasn't sure about that one but snicko sent him on his way.
I wonder if Hotspot is useless above a certain temperature?
Snicko isnt part of DRS........
But he must have been given out on the strength of a noise as the ball went past the outside edge.
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Well, that was a wasted 20 minutes.
Given England's tactics, I'd almost like to see the Aussies bat thro' the next two days and save the match
Normally I would agree with a declaration at least last night but I think this is payback big time for when Border and Waugh practised 'mental disintegration ' on us in previous series.
Border ,first test Headingley 1989,didn't declare till the third day at 601-7 in the first knock.
A series of grind the bastards down that ended in 4-0.
We have the Ashes,1-0 up ,soon to be 2. Players as well as spectators want blood here. Don't forget we play them in the winter,so kick 'em hard,totally demoralise them and make them believe that not of them is good enough.Clarke is but let's get the Oz media baying for his blood as a thoroughly beaten captain of an unseaworthy ship.
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The sound was the key, there was a clear sound on the replay (without snicko) and none of the replays showed anything else to account for the noise. I actually think it's a complicated one though because I can't understand how it wasn't given out on the field but i also find it difficult to justify the 3rd umpire overruling it.
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I wasn't sure about that one but snicko sent him on his way.
I wonder if Hotspot is useless above a certain temperature?
Snicko isnt part of DRS........
But he must have been given out on the strength of a noise as the ball went past the outside edge.
There was a sound but I reckon that wasnt out
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I wasn't sure about that one but snicko sent him on his way.
I wonder if Hotspot is useless above a certain temperature?
Snicko isnt part of DRS........
But he must have been given out on the strength of a noise as the ball went past the outside edge.
There was a sound but I reckon that wasnt out
By a process of elimination, the sound wasn't bat on pad or bat on ground therefore it could only have come from a thin outside edge. Therefore in the balance of probability it was out.
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I wasn't sure about that one but snicko sent him on his way.
I wonder if Hotspot is useless above a certain temperature?
Snicko isnt part of DRS........
But he must have been given out on the strength of a noise as the ball went past the outside edge.
There was a sound but I reckon that wasnt out
By a process of elimination, the sound wasn't bat on pad or bat on ground therefore it could only have come from a thin outside edge. Therefore in the balance of probability it was out.
It says out in the scorebook
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I wasn't sure about that one but snicko sent him on his way.
I wonder if Hotspot is useless above a certain temperature?
Snicko isnt part of DRS........
But he must have been given out on the strength of a noise as the ball went past the outside edge.
There was a sound but I reckon that wasnt out
By a process of elimination, the sound wasn't bat on pad or bat on ground therefore it could only have come from a thin outside edge. Therefore in the balance of probability it was out.
It says out in the scorebook
Which is all that counts.
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I've never heard Holding so animated.
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Bit selfish of Root to not give anyone else a chance at motm here.
I think this could be game over today now, they really needed one of Clarke and Khawaja to bat all day to make it to the 5th day which i'm sure they'd have been targeting.
Got to feel for Bell he's averaging nearly 80 in this series and can't get a sniff of man of the match.
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Lovely delivery to a tailender from Swann to end it. Really good performance from England as a unit, fielded really well, bowled really well and had 3-4 very good batting performances.
A bit more consistency from the top 4 would be great but we're a long long way ahead of them right now and 4-0 or 5-0 is the safe money (depending on the weather).
Pretty nice to witness the death of australian competitive sport this summer as well.
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Decent of England to give the paying customers a full day before finishing it at the death.
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Well that's an absolute battering, the Aussies just cannot bat. We still need to sort some of our batting at the top, but very good.
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I think the margin of victory is a much more accurate reflection of the gulf in class than the first test.
It's a perfect storm really. A weak batting line up facing a high class attack and there should only really be one outcome.
Just imagine if Cook, Prior, Trott and Pietersen played to potential!!!!!!
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So another victory is in the bag.
A quick question to the regular posters on this thread, who would you select now? Finn or Bresnan?
I'm one of the Bresnan fans on here. I think his performance in the Lords test has seen him move well ahead of Finn in the pecking order. He batted intelligently in the second innings at a time when a couple of more wickets would have seen the Aussies claw their way back into the game. His bowling was economical and he picked up a couple of wickets in each innings. A satisfactory performance.
Now then Finn fans, what next for your man?
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Bresnan's batting was certainly useful, but it depends what Old Trafford's pitch is like. It's normally great for fast bowlers and if Finn has some form by then, I think he'd be more effective.
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I still think Finn is the better bowler. As I've said before, Bresnan will never let you down, but Finn has the genuine ability to rip through quality top orders as shown by the game against SA last summer. I did believe Bresnan was right to come in as Finn was low on confidence.
I think Finn could have bowled well at Lords given there was more bounce, and will be more effective than Bresnan at Old Trafford.
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I think there's a chance we could play 2 spinners at Old Trafford. The pitch traditionally offers turn up there and judging by reports the rotation of the square has increased its spin-friendly nature.
I can see Tredwell or Keedy coming in.
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I don't think there's any chance of two spinners, especially now that Root has proved a useful option. We'll play the normal 4 bowlers and there's plenty in Old Trafford for seamers. Finn is the better bowler than Bresnan if he's on form, but it will depend on what he looks like when we get to Old Trafford.
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Far more important is where a 'dangerous' length lies. At lords the dangerous length was fuller than normal so Bresnan was far better suited to the pitch. On a pitch more suited to shorter stuff Finn is the clear choice for the extra pace, Bresnan isn't really quick enough to bounce people out.
That said as it stands they've had 1 match each in the series, Bresnan providing 4 wickets at a good rate and a very important batting pertnership should see him in 'possession' of the spot for the time being. It's really only a question if the pitch is very quick and bouncy as it would be harsh to drop Bresnan unless the conditions are massively against him.
As for a 2nd spinner I'd be very surprised if that happened, Root looks very useful so I suspect we're more likely to see him have longer spells than anything else. I'd love them to find a way to get Monty in because he's a very handy bowler but the rest of his game is so weak that we can't afford to carry him.
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Finn's too erratic, there is potential there but he has too many bad games. Bresnan did everything that was asked of him last test so it would be incredibly harsh to drop him.
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T.Bresnan also chipped in with some runs.....
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If Finn gets back to his best he should play, if not then Bresnan as it stands.
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I'd pick neither. Go with ten players, give the Aussies a chance.
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So another victory is in the bag.
A quick question to the regular posters on this thread, who would you select now? Finn or Bresnan?
I'm one of the Bresnan fans on here. I think his performance in the Lords test has seen him move well ahead of Finn in the pecking order. He batted intelligently in the second innings at a time when a couple of more wickets would have seen the Aussies claw their way back into the game. His bowling was economical and he picked up a couple of wickets in each innings. A satisfactory performance.
Now then Finn fans, what next for your man?
I'd have kept Finn for the second test. His home ground and his phenomenal record there etc. The ideal opportunity to play himself into a bit of form.
But now that they've made the change, I don't see how they can go back. Barring injury. That said, if Bairstow continues to look a bit suspect in the middle order, there might be an argument for playing both Bresnan and Finn.
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It was a good performance from Bresnan all-round, and his greater experience probably merits him keeping his place. Finn needs to go back to Middlesex and learn his trade - just because he's so tall he doesn't need to bang it in so much (he should watch some Joel Garner videos) - and take some wickets as well to get his confidence back up. He's more talented than Bresnan, but at the moment he's less reliable.
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I think that's a bit harsh on Bairstow KG.
He's looked fine so far, scoring 37, 60 odd then getting out for 20 basically trying to smash every ball.
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I think that's a bit harsh on Bairstow KG.
He's looked fine so far, scoring 37, 60 odd then getting out for 20 basically trying to smash every ball.
He was dropped very early on in that 60 though. The biggest issue is that he just never looks settled unless he's swinging at everything.
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I'd pick neither. Go with ten players, give the Aussies a chance.
You could make everyone play with their wrong hand and we'd still have too much for these ass-clowns.
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The 2nd or 3rd best aussie bat has been ruled out according to the beeb
Australia fast bowler James Pattinson will miss the rest of the Ashes series against England after suffering a stress fracture of the lower back.
The 23-year-old complained of soreness in his hip and back at the end of the second Test at Lord's.
Cricket Australia confirmed Pattinson would miss the rest of the tour after a scan revealed the extent of the injury.
"Unfortunately he will not take any further part in this Test series," said Australia team doctor Peter Brukner.
"Scans have identified an early stage low back stress fracture.
"He will commence a rehabilitation programme with the aim to have him back for the Australian summer."
The Ashes
1st Test: England won by 14 runs, Trent Bridge
2nd Test: England won by 347 runs, Lord's
3rd Test: 1-5 August, Old Trafford
4th Test: 9-13 August Chester-le-Street
5th Test: 21-25 August, The Oval
The tourists say they have no immediate plans to call up a replacement for Pattinson, which could mean a recall for Mitchell Starc.
Starc was left out of the side which was thrashed by 347 runs by England at Lord's on Sunday.
James Faulkner and Jackson Bird are also available as back-up to frontline seamers Peter Siddle and Ryan Harris.
Josh Hazlewood, Nathan Coulter-Nile and Chadd Sayers are among those who could potentially be called up from the Australia A squad currently playing in South Africa.
Cricket Australia general manager Pat Howard said: "While we are obviously disappointed for James, the selectors have five bowlers fit and ready to perform in England, providing them with many options.
"It is also important to note that several players have been performing for Australia A and are available to be called up at any stage if the national selection panel [requires] them."
Pattinson took seven wickets in the two Tests at a cost of 307 runs, and almost helped Australia pull off an unlikely Trent Bridge victory with a gritty 25 not out in a thrilling climax to the first Test.
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If we pick an extra spinner it may be worth taking a look at Kerrigan. I doubt we'll go that route though.
It's hard to see Bairstow being given the bums rush, especially if Pietersen doesn't play.
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To add another reason why Bresnan can't be dropped, his current bowling average vs Australia is 18.2 - only 3 matches and 15 wickets but the evidence so far suggests that they really don't like playing against him.
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Bresnan has earned his place for the next game. His partnership with Root after England were 30-3 was the crucial partnership that broke the Aussies. He did very well.
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Looking at Taylor's stats this year, I think he should definitely be in the side.
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Fucking hell I'm glad Dominic Cork is not a selector, he'd replace KP with Samit Patel. Forget that.
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Cricket ............. Straight Outta Compton*
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9499935/grantland-channel-compton-cricket-club
[* I believe that that particular area of Los Angeles was in fact named after Denis Compton**]
[** or maybe not]
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James Taylor playing for Sussex against the Aussies, suggests he's the one in the selectors minds.
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A few days ago i suppose i slagged off David Warner for not scoring any runs against a Combined Zimbabwe team but today he has scored 193 for Australia A v South Africa A so maybe he will be back in for third test!!!
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I hope so PGW and lets hope he is out for a pair as well. I can't stand him.
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Bowled neck and crop by Root would do nicely.
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James Taylor or Gary Ballance would be the two I'd consider for Pietersen.
They'll probably bring Bopara back though.
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They should bring in Taylor. I don't know if he'll fit the bill, but a relative unknown would put the wind up the Aussies and let's face it, Bopara would let the pressure get to him. They bought in Trott in '09 and he was a revelation. I'd go with new blood.
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I think they'll bring Taylor in, he was mentioned by Gooch and is specifically playing for Sussex against Australia. He should be in too, I actually prefer him to Bairstow. I think they're both really good young players, but Taylor's technique is better.
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Bowled neck and crop by Root would do nicely.
That would be superb!
Ryan Sidebottom is scoring a few runs this year, worth a shout for the number 6 slot.*
*He's our number 11, we need him, it's a joke okay?
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I reckon if the Aussies bring in Jackson Bird he could be a threat, looks a good bowler.
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What makes you think he'll play? Has he tweeted?
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Ha he may well have tweeted, but he reminds me a lot of Mcgrath although Mcgrath was quicker when he was younger.
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Taylor has 50 against Aus.
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Taylor in as cover for Pietersen which is no surprise. Interesting selection of Tremlett and Monty though.
Squad For Third Test (http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/current/story/655929.html)
Monty is either cover for Swann or they are considering playing two spinners.
Finn is being left behind so probably needs time back in County Cricket.
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Interesting Tremlett called up, I'd like to see him involved. Taylor is 121 not out against the Aussies, he's got to be in with a great chance of playing now.
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Interesting Tremlett called up, I'd like to see him involved. Taylor is 121 not out against the Aussies, he's got to be in with a great chance of playing now.
Yeah, I like Tremlett too, I'd imagine the out-of-sorts Aussie batsmen will be thrilled at the sight of him hurtling his monstrous frame in towards them.
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Interesting Tremlett called up, I'd like to see him involved. Taylor is 121 not out against the Aussies, he's got to be in with a great chance of playing now.
Yeah, I like Tremlett too, I'd imagine the out-of-sorts Aussie batsmen will be thrilled at the sight of him hurtling his monstrous frame in towards them.
Yeah, with a nice bouncy wicket.
Re Taylor, if KP is fit, who would you drop to have him in?
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I probably would "rest" KP as there are still 3 tests to go and we only need to draw one of them to retain the urn.
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I don't know but Taylor is in great form.
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Tremlett is a tough one, I like him and the aussie batsmen have struggled agianst him in the past but I think we've bowled really well bar Finn in the first test, I can only see Tremlett coming in for an injury or if they decide to go with Bres higher up.
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I believe they want Tremlett to play in Australia, so I suspect he'll be introduced over the next 3 Tests.
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Don't want to get too ahead of ourselves but lets get the series wrapped up and then plan for the return in Oz where Tremlett becomes a real force. Brisbane has both pace and bounce so i'd love to see him in there but with Finn, Broad and Anderson it's possible that they'd go with all four and leave Swann out - he'd be back for the traditional turner at Adelaide.
Any H & Ver's heading down here for that series???
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Having already shit the Aussies up, I would like to see Taylor come in. Maybe leave Bairstow out if KP's fit.
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I'd go...if all fit
Cook
Root
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Prior
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Tremlett
Anderson
win the test and then give taylor another go. If KP is not fit then Taylor comes in, bairstow for Tremlett. Compton's bridges well and truly burnt.
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I'd go...if all fit
Cook
Root
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Prior
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Tremlett
Anderson
win the test and then give taylor another go. If KP is not fit then Taylor comes in, bairstow for Tremlett. Compton's bridges well and truly burnt.
I agree with that pretty much other than I might not bring bairstow back in even if KP isn't fit.
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Don't want to get too ahead of ourselves but lets get the series wrapped up and then plan for the return in Oz where Tremlett becomes a real force. Brisbane has both pace and bounce so i'd love to see him in there but with Finn, Broad and Anderson it's possible that they'd go with all four and leave Swann out - he'd be back for the traditional turner at Adelaide.
Any H & Ver's heading down here for that series???
I'm hoping to come out for Brisbane & Adelaide, originally was coming for Tests 3,4 & 5 but i now have to be back in 'old blighty' for around 15th Dec. I came out there in 05/06 for the 5- 0 belting we were sat in Dubai airport waiting for connection watching TV coverage when we went 3 - 0 down......but fell in love with Melbourne & Sydney!!!
By the way reason got to be back.....gonna be a grand-dad for the first time.....and i ain't missing that!!!!
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Think it would be a bit mad going for 5 bowlers at this stage. We've easily bowled them out cheaply 4 times with 4 bowlers.
Playing one less batsman would give them a slight sniff of bowling us out cheaply enough to be competitive. Bairstow has done alright this summer against New Zealand and the Aussies, both of whom have good pace attacks.
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I'd go with 5 bowlers because winning thsi test will be because we'll bowl them out cheaply twice. The batting hasn't kicked in fully and against an okay attack we have enough about us to acore 350+ first innings. It also gives Tremlett a bit of test match fitness. imagine thinking this against the Aussies even 5 years or so ago. But, they are poor. i hav n doubt the selectors won't go down this route in case the batting fails. but, it shouldn't do. This is a poor Australian team and we'll keep more or less the same starting line-up but clearly they're looking to get Tremlett in. 4th test I reckon.
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I've come to the conclusion why select Tremlett if you're not going to play him? I think he has to start.
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It's just to fool the Aussies. The same as selecting Monty, there is no way we will play 2 spinners but just makes them think a bit and maybe confuse them. Can't see us changing from the 4 man attack at all and Bresnan will be the 4th man.
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Tremlett is a better bowler than Bres and England rate him highly. Considering his injury record and need to play games for fitness I think he'll play or he'd have stay with Surrey.
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Boyd Rankin is the worst interviewee ever.
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It's just to fool the Aussies. The same as selecting Monty, there is no way we will play 2 spinners but just makes them think a bit and maybe confuse them. Can't see us changing from the 4 man attack at all and Bresnan will be the 4th man.
I can't either and it would be very harsh to drop Bresnan. Only change will be Taylor in for KP if he isn't fit.
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Teams that get to the top are harsh and ruthless. I agree Bresnan played decently at Lords, but if Tremlett is the better choice for Old Trafford he should play.
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Don't want to get too ahead of ourselves but lets get the series wrapped up and then plan for the return in Oz where Tremlett becomes a real force. Brisbane has both pace and bounce so i'd love to see him in there but with Finn, Broad and Anderson it's possible that they'd go with all four and leave Swann out - he'd be back for the traditional turner at Adelaide.
Any H & Ver's heading down here for that series???
Aren't pretty much all the Ozzie grounds drop in pitches now?
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I think Taylor will play at Old Trafford instead of KP.
Even if KP comes through various fitness tests and declares himself fit I don't think they will risk his breaking down during the test and being a batsman light.
They dropped Freddie for the Headingley test in 2009 for fitness-based reasons even after he declared himself fit and I think the conservative-natured captain/coach will do the same again.
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Nah, Pietersen will play if he's fit I reckon, Taylor (and a couple of others) will get their chance if we go 3-0 up.
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Teams that get to the top are harsh and ruthless. I agree Bresnan played decently at Lords, but if Tremlett is the better choice for Old Trafford he should play.
Good point Paul, but we aren't harsh and ruthless. Our selections and general tactics have been on the conservative side for a number of years now (constantly stuck with four bowlers) and I just can't see it changing at this point. Saying that, I'm a fan of Tremlett and would happily see him back in the side ahead of Bresnan.
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Don't want to get too ahead of ourselves but lets get the series wrapped up and then plan for the return in Oz where Tremlett becomes a real force. Brisbane has both pace and bounce so i'd love to see him in there but with Finn, Broad and Anderson it's possible that they'd go with all four and leave Swann out - he'd be back for the traditional turner at Adelaide.
Any H & Ver's heading down here for that series???
Aren't pretty much all the Ozzie grounds drop in pitches now?
Certainly not Brisbane, Perth or Adelaide although they are talking about it at Adelaide due to ground redevelopments. Melbourne usually is, Sydney has been.
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The biggest problem might be the weather, after today it looks shocking for the remainder of the Test.
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yeah, looking at the reports for the weekend there's a good chance of a washout here, will secure us the ashes though, which is nice.
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yeah, looking at the reports for the weekend there's a good chance of a washout here, will secure us the ashes though, which is nice.
No, I want the whitewash not the washout. I'd be surprised if that rabble beat us at all - only the weather can save them.
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I really want the weather to hold off. Old Trafford normally produces great England displays, and I don't want the weather ruining it.
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So what would you do if you were Cook and won the toss? Take advantage of favourable overhead conditions for your seam attack and stick the Aussies in or bat first, score enough (fingers crossed) and make the Aussies bat last on a turning pitch?
I'd bowl if I won the toss. We could get them out for a low score and then bat them out of the game and the series.
I don't think any days will be washed out but a fair amount of time will be lost to rain breaks.
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Oh and I don't like any of this, 'I hope they win the next one to make it interesting'. They've battered us for years and out of respect I want to smash them into the dirt.
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Oh and I don't like any of this, 'I hope they win the next one to make it interesting'. They've battered us for years and out of respect I want to smash them into the dirt.
This.
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Crims have won the toss and are batting, KP fit so we are unchanged.
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Unchagned, as I said I would have liked Tremlett in but I can't really argue given the last game. I'm happy enough with that team. It'll be interesting to see Australia bat first, and I hope Warner gets fuck all.
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I think if we win this game we might see some changes for the next one, because we've got to think long term about the Ashes over there as well.
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Hughes is the highest Aussie run scorer on this tour and he gets dropped. Agar gone too.
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Lyon is much more of a threat and can cause a problem for us. We need our top order to turn up and get big runs on the board, hopefully that'll start today after we've knocked them over.
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Looks like a good pitch to bat first on, they're finding it pretty easy at the moment.
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Need to just try and dry up the runs here and increase pressure.
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They've set a good platform, bloody Aussies!
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They've set a good platform, bloody Aussies!
The one thing that this Aussie side has displayed is a talent for squandering good starts.
They had a good first hour, I can't see it continuing. Both Watson & Rogers will give their wickets away.
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Rogers is slaying our bowling at the moment.
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Not really sure why Swann hasn't bowled yet. There's the square root of fuck all in it for the seamers
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Not really sure why Swann hasn't bowled yet. There's the square root of fuck all in it for the seamers
Watson gone.
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Nice one Bressie
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I was about to say 'What time will the first Merchant of Doom' post on here as Bresnan takes first wkt.
Will have such naughty thoughts again in a little while!!!!
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We badly needed that wicket, now we need a cluster to fall.
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Surprised Watson didn't review his dismissal.
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Swann should come on now, 20 minutes before lunch and two lefties in
Edit, he's into the attack
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Khawaja gone, although even though I'm supporting England it sounds like it should have been overturned. Still good stuff.
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Swanny gets one.
Another dubious DRS?
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Swanny gets one.
Another dubious DRS?
Sounds like it should have been overturned.
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Clarke and Rogers gone quick would be nice. It's been a fairly even morning.
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Swanny gets one.
Another dubious DRS?
Sounds like it should have been overturned.
DRS needs a thorough review. For now I'll take the decisions that go in our favour!!
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People can complain about technology all they want, but it's essentially down to the fact the third umpires have been absolutely shocking at using the technology this series. That dismissal just sounds like he definitely wasn't out. You can forgive the onfield umpire, but the third umpire has made a right hash of it apparently.
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I actually think if Broad hadn't batted well, he'd be under pressure. His bowling figures are not special this series.
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Rogers looks set for a big score, we really need to get rid of him asap. It goes without saying we don't want Clarke getting in.
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I actually think if Broad hadn't batted well, he'd be under pressure. His bowling figures are not special this series.
Typical Broad really. When you think his place is under threat he tends to deliver. I find him to be frustratingly inconsistent.
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Clarke is looking in good touch here, this pair could be very dangerous for us.
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If Broad doesn't improve a lot it should be him out for Tremlett in the next match. His bowling isn't contributing enough at the moment.
We really need to make another breakthrough.
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Rogers gone, well done Swann. It's spinning already
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Huge wicket for Swann
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We needed that badly again, we really need to rip through now. Got to get rid of Clarke. Well bowled Swanny.
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I think I'd give Root a bowl, Swann looks a lot more threatening than the seamers.
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Clarke is looking very dangerous here.
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We've conceded 24 boundaries so far, a huge amount for the second session of the first day of a test match
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Certainly is, we need a couple of wickets here or the Aussies will be getting well on top.
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Australia's day so far, we need a good last session with two or three wickets to pull it back.
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A question from those who are watching/listening to the coverage, I'm following the ball-by-ball text commentary on Cricinfo.
Are we bowling badly or was it a good toss to win on this pitch?
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I'm doing neither, but I suspect it's a batting wicket. However the number of boundaries we're going for also suggests we're not bowling tight enough lines. We need a really big session or Australia have control of the game.
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See we wasted our DRS and we would have had Smith there. That being said the umpire should have given him out straight away.
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I've seen a replay of that decision and it is yet again shocking, shocking umpiring. Smith was absolutely stone dead.
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That's one of the worst decisions I've ever seen, it was clear as day it was going to hit middle, shocking from the umpire. It's all the more upsetting because the first review from England was so close, bit unlucky to lose a review like that.
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See we wasted our DRS and we would have had Smith there. That being said the umpire should have given him out straight away.
I don't think we wasted our reviews. The lbw was as close as possible to being overturned, and Smith definitely edged it the second time. I'd like to get the umpires opinion on what the massive woody noise was if it wasn't bat. Very poor umpiring all day including the khawaja decision.
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This pitch is extremely flat
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Australia's day so far, we need a good last session with two or three wickets to pull it back.
It has to be Australia's day when Watson succeeds in avoiding an LBW!
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Is Jim Maxwell on TMS getting on anyone else's tits?
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And the boundary count clicks along to 33
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This is a poor poor pitch
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I think Lancashire have spent a lot of money and acheived very little. There are apparently problems with comfortable spectating in that Point thing, the TMS team have pointed out that you can only see half the scoreboard from the commentary box, they've had to move spectators from behind the bowler's arm and most importantly, all the bowlers have had problems on a badly-tended pitch.
To think Edgbaston has missed out for this shambles.
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Old Trafford and the Riverside are both shite compared to Edgbaston. Can't understand why Trent Bridge got the nod either - capacity is only 16,000 compared to Edgbaston's 25,000. ECB missed out on a lot of extra revenue!
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Well clearly Australia's day on a ve ry flat pitch. We're up against it now and our top order need to get runs. Also Broad should be under massive pressure from Tremlett if he continues to bowl like he has.
The umpiring was utterly dreadful, and simply not good enough at this level.
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We could be in a spot of bother here, this was the ideal day for batting, with cloud cover and rain expected it's going to get much harder to bat from tomorrow.
Well, we'll see what Australia are made of then won't we, if they can't win with just about everything going for them (except for one dodgy DRS) then they are never going to win.
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Yes, i'm off up there in the morning....could be another difficult day methinks!!!!
Early start 07:31 train, forecast seems to have improved a little....not so many showers hopefully be OK, i aint going to pack my 'Packamac'.
i'm situated in that rather large temporary stand.....better be good access to the bar!!!
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Old Trafford and the Riverside are both shite compared to Edgbaston. Can't understand why Trent Bridge got the nod either - capacity is only 16,000 compared to Edgbaston's 25,000. ECB missed out on a lot of extra revenue!
Edgbaston didn't bid enough to get a Test Match.
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If the weather holds this could be our standard one Ashes Test thrashing, because we don't tend to bat well in these situations. As flat as it is, I don't think we bowled particularly well.
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I wonder if we're going to be victims of not changing a winning team. I think we needed a bowler with a bit more pace and bounce on this pitch.
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For all the mockery of Australia, that is the first good first day's batting display. Ours have been pretty poor so far.
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The first session tomorrow will be huge for us. We need quick wickets otherwise we could face another long day in the field. This is a huge test for Cook's captaincy.
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It's pretty much all about saving this game now, that's the reality of it.
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Pitch looks flat, 300-3 is Australia's day but England are quite capable of hitting them early tomorrow (see day 2 at Trent Bridge) and it's all to play for again.
Can't believe how poor the umpiring has been in this series though.
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I wonder if we're going to be victims of not changing a winning team. I think we needed a bowler with a bit more pace and bounce on this pitch.
Won't know where we stand until we've batted really. Clarke is a quality batsman and was always going to find form at some point in the series. My money is on the draw at the moment.
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Totally, if they can score heavily on this deck then why can't we. Doesn't look like there's that crazy paving style plates on the pitch so it shouldn't crack up too much, particularly with the weather forecast for cooler conditions.
We didn't bowl badly and they batted well, showed some aggression which they have to do given the score in the series and fair play to them - it's what Test Cricket is all about.
At 2-0 up, a draw is still as good as a win as far as i'm concerned so I hope it pisses down for a day or two.
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Well I'll miss all of today's play, so I'm hoping when I check the score we're in a better position.
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Following the game on Cricinfo reminds me of following football and cricket on Ceefax years ago.
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Phewwwww, the pies have made it through security.
Bumble is in the TMS box for a joint BBC/Sky celebration
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Theres absolutely no reason why we can't score 450-500 in our innings on this pitch.
I just don't trust our batsmen though.
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200 partnership up.
Of course Smith's already been out 3 times but lets not quibble about that
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At last! Yet again Swann strikes with in the first over of a spell.
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Warner gone and Swann has another. Edged onto Prior's thigh and up into Trott's hands at slip.
Warner reviewed but was unsuccessful so both sides have no reviews.
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Warner gone and Swann has another. Edged onto Prior's thigh and up into Trott's hands at slip.
Warner reviewed but was unsuccessful so both sides have no reviews.
What on earth was Warner thinking reviewing that decision? It was a clear nick and must have known he had hit it.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BQpf1tqCcAATuqx.jpg)
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Warner gone and Swann has another. Edged onto Prior's thigh and up into Trott's hands at slip.
Warner reviewed but was unsuccessful so both sides have no reviews.
What on earth was Warner thinking reviewing that decision? It was a clear nick and must have known he had hit it.
I've not seen it, but according to the Cricinfo text commentary Warner's bat hit his pad before he edged it so maybe that confused him.
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Clarke gone for 187
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Clarke showing Cook how a captain leads by example. He needs a double ton - if he manages one, the Aussies will be demolished.
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Another one gone 430-7
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Now Haddin & Starc seem to have swung the momentum back to Aus. following the mini-collapse
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Best thing for this match is a declaration at tea. England won't skittle them out and the weather is against the Aussies. I don't think this match is even halfway over yet - each England innings has had a heroic performance.
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Well this is a ridiculously flat pitch, yet it wouldn't surprise me to see our batsmen fuck it up
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Well this is a ridiculously flat pitch, yet it wouldn't surprise me to see our batsmen fuck it up
I guess that is why we are 2-0 down in the series, oh wait...
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It was more just a general comment on the top orders falability over the last 18 months or so.
Well this is a ridiculously flat pitch, yet it wouldn't surprise me to see our batsmen fuck it up
I guess that is why we are 2-0 down in the series, oh wait...
It was more just a statement on the top orders falability over the last couple of years. Of course I expect them to get massive runs on this pitch, but it wouldn't shock me if they got out reasonably cheaply
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If we get past the follow on score, we will retain the Ashes with the rain that's coming on Sunday and Monday.
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Cannot understand the need for a nightwatchman on this road of a pitch
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Utterly pathetic
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Strange decision not to review from Bresnan. Maybe he was told not to use up any reviews.
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It was embarrassing all round. Bresnans shot, another joke of an umpiring decision and then a mental meltdown not to review.
To be honest, I think England sort of deserve it for the ridiculous decision to send him in in the first place.
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Very poor performance so far with the bat. Sadly all too familiar
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Well sounds like we're under massive pressure here, Cook and Trott need to perform and get big scores now. We haven't performed well enough in this game.
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What I fear with England is that sometimes we have an inbuilt negativity in the team, we always go conservative and I'm not sure the night watchman was the right call in this game. Although once again it was a bad decision to give Bresnan out.
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As much as this is a flat pitch, and it is a batsman's paradise, I was disappointed that we just seemed to allow Australia to score at whatever rate they wanted for the last session and a half of their innings. We merely accepted our fate, and I think that negativity has seeped into the batting.
Root looked like he could get out at any stage, and to send Bresnan in with over 30 minutes left reflects poorly on Trott imo
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Root has got to learn how to get forward.
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I hope it doesn't happen, but this has a Headingly 09 and a Perth 2010/11 feel about it. We look in a bit of a hole, and the batsmen need to dig us out.
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i think we will ruin Root if we continue to use him as opener. He should come in at number 5 or 6. If we could only find ourselves a decent opener.
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I think there was an element of complacency from our bowling in this Test. The Aussie seamers looked much more threatening and Lyon looked good. The seamers particularly looked to be bending their backs more.
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Aggers and Victor are superb together on TMS
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Australia are doing a much better job of preventing our batsmen scoring.
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Trott gone, oh dear, we're in big trouble here. KP you have to turn up now.
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That's another really poor shot from Trott
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We need to take a much more positive approach, it's not just about time we need to get runs.
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KP get your head in the game, that was a horrible shot.
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We need to take a much more positive approach, it's not just about time we need to get runs.
Yep, we need to stop just allowing the Aussies to run up and bowl where they like. We need to make them think more as we're just going nowhere at the moment until the inevitable mistake.
I suppose Pietersen will take it to the other end of the spectrum and get out playing a lavish shot.
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Well the first few balls KP's faced don't do a large amount of good for the confidence
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Cook gets to 50. Thats about a quarter of your job done skipper
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Half century for Cook, need a lot lot more. Start playing positively England, we need to put the pressure back on the Aussies. Any team with good bowlers can bowl at you if they know they're not going to get hit.
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We need to take a much more positive approach, it's not just about time we need to get runs.
Yep, we need to stop just allowing the Aussies to run up and bowl where they like. We need to make them think more as we're just going nowhere at the moment until the inevitable mistake.
I suppose Pietersen will take it to the other end of the spectrum and get out playing a lavish shot.
Precisely, it's fairly obvious but runs are really important.
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as a nod to selectors Graham Onions took 7/62 at Lords today
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as a nod to selectors Graham Onions took 7/62 at Lords today
Yeah and Finn took 4-46 as well.
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Fucking hell KP get your head in the game.
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as a nod to selectors Graham Onions took 7/62 at Lords today
Not sure the dry pitches the ecb are intent on producing will suit Onions at all though. Green seamer and I'd say get him in.
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Better from KP, trying to attack the Aussies.
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FFS Cook
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Cook gone and once again gets a start and doesn't go on, not good enough. This is fast becoming another poor batting display.
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Really poor session of batting yet again.
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Really poor session of batting yet again.
Yep our top three haven't produced as a unit again. It's not good enough.
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The weather forecast better be correct
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Our top order should be coming under pressure now, they're not producing anywhere near enough runs and haven't for a while.
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Really poor session of batting yet again.
Yep our top three haven't produced as a unit again. It's not good enough.
All too predictable though.
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We need a big hundred from one of the batsmen and significant contributions around him.
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Trott, Cook and Pietersen have all been poor so far in this series. Ian Bell isn't going to rescue us every time.
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Appears as though Bell was out. Need this to be the turning point
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Trott, Cook and Pietersen have all been poor so far in this series. Ian Bell isn't going to rescue us every time.
Yep Cook, Trott and KP and Prior need to do something and Bairstow needs to start producing big runs.
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Yeah forgot to mention Prior.
In fairness its amazing how we are 2-0 up in the first place with so many key batsmen woefully out of form.
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Yeah forgot to mention Prior.
In fairness its amazing how we are 2-0 up in the first place with so many key batsmen woefully out of form.
We haven't played well and the fact that Australia have performed really badly has papered over the cracks. Our batsmen have not been getting big runs as a unit for a while now, and it needs to be sorted or they need to be dropped and others get given an opportunity.
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178-5, 174-5, 127-4, 129-4, 114-4. Those are our starts to each innings this series, poor.
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Yep, none of those starts is remotely good enough. Worryingly top order failure is now becoming the norm rather than the anomaly
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hmmmm, a more in depth scan of the weather forecast makes it appear unlikely than rain is going to do us any significant favour
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Yep, none of those starts is remotely good enough. Worryingly top order failure is now becoming the norm rather than the anomaly
Precisely, it's really poor. KP on the move.
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Then KP swipes 2 successive 6's to bring up his 50
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This is good from Bell and KP, we need to starting getting runs and putting some pressure on Australia.
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If Australia had reviewed KP was gone, let off there.
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Throughout this series England have just allowed Watson to run up and bowl maiden after maiden as if he was Glenn Mcgrath or something.
He's a bit better than a part timer, but no more than that. I can't understand the tactics here
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Harris really is a top top bowler, if injuries hadn't ravaged him I think he'd be one of the best of his generation.
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It''s looking tough out there now.
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That is the first session we've won in this match, we need KP and Belly to keep going.
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Well the first session of the match that England have won.
Shame about the previous 6 sessions!!
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If Australia had reviewed KP was gone, let off there.
In fairness to the Ump, KP was a long way down the pitch (and also on the walk, which made it look like he was even further down)
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If Australia had reviewed KP was gone, let off there.
In fairness to the Ump, KP was a long way down the pitch (and also on the walk, which made it look like he was even further down)
Oh I don't think it was a terrible decision by the umpire or by Australia not to review for that reason.
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"AV de Belly" is making this look very easy
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Well jinxed UK! that's a really bad blow, we need Bairstow and Prior to turn up now.
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Umm.......... pretend that I didn't type that about Bell
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We really need a Bairstow century now, Bell did well but we need other batsmen to turn up. 225-5 on this pitch is not good.
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Nope, but after batting 90 overs it wouldn't be so bad losing 5 wickets if the run rate was more like 3.25.
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Its still an incredibly flat surface. Only 3 wickets have been taken today and one of them was a strangle down the leg side
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Bairstow looks highly nervous here
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Yes he's not exactly filling me with confidence at the moment, come on Jonny a century please.
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Keep that bat straight Jonny.
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I don't know if anyone is listening to TMS but Boycott sounds as though he been on the sauce.
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Brilliant 100 KP, now go on please. We need to get under the follow on target.
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Straight bat Bairstow.
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Bairstow gone for 22, not good enough again. We're in trouble here.
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We need runs from Prior here.
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That was a really poor shot from Bairstow. 277-6 on this pitch considering one player has a 100 is really poor.
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Bairstow and Bresnan to be dropped.
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Well what was a mediocre day with the bat has now turned into yet another poor one.
In fairness Pietersen did get an inside edge, which clearly showed on hotspot despite the pathetic commentary of Atherton who appears to be blind. How on earth the 3rd umpire didn't see that is a mystery also
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We are looking buried here. 288-7 is a really poor score on this pitch. KP played well as did Bell, but the rest poor and I include Cook's 60 because he got out stupidly.
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I think that this series has seriously damaged the reputation of the review system, perhaps irrevocably so.
There have been so many referrals that have simply defied logic as to how they have/haven't been overturned its embarrassing. The technology is also clearly not up to scratch, particularly hotspot.
My opinion of Atherton as a commentator has also been further reduced. How he can state there was no mark on the bat, when the evidence clearly proved otherwise (unless your an inept 3rd umpire) is odd indeed.
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Bairstow and Bresnan to be dropped.
Yes please, we'll have them back at Yorkshire and get the title won. Drop Root as well, he's rubbish.
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We are looking buried here. 288-7 is a really poor score on this pitch. KP played well as did Bell, but the rest poor and I include Cook's 60 because he got out stupidly.
Yeah in fairness, Bell got a really good ball and Pietersen clearly edged his and the 3rd umpires had another howler. Cook, Trott and Bairstow have all got out poorly.
Its about time Prior contributed something
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I've stuck up for Bairstow quite a lot, but in all fairness he's played a no of matches now and isn't contributing quite enough.
I've always thought Taylor was the better long term prospect and if Bairstow doesn't get a big score in the second innings then I think Taylor should be given the nod at Durham
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Basically this series so far, Australia performed appallingly with the bat in the first two Tests. We bowled decently, without being great(a couple of individual displays aside). We've batted poorly, just not as bad as Australia. Now at OT the much mocked Australian batting line up get to bat first, and they put on a massive score against some mediocre bowling. Once again we are struggling with the bat, as 294-7 on this pitch is poor. The only batsman performing consistently is Bell, KP and Root have a great knock each but other than that poor.
We have not been very good and now that Australia have performed, we are doing very poorly. The batting needs to be addressed and before we change the line up, the first thing to do is say unless there is 10 minutes left in the day you don't get a night watchman. There's too much shifting of responsibility in the team. We also need to play a lot more positively. I also think we need Tremlett in the team to add some bowling aggression.
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our run rate is poor in this innings aswell. If we'd have batted at a reasonable rate, say 3 an over the we'd have passed 350 now.
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our run rate is poor in this innings aswell. If we'd have batted at a reasonable rate, say 3 an over the we'd have passed 350 now.
Yep and that goes back to our mindset and being too negative which comes from the top. Additionally Australia have been a much better bowling unit in this Test.
We're winning this series quite fortunately at the moment, and our performances need to improve a lot in all aspects.
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It'd be interesting if Sky grew some balls and asked the umpires about the review system. In this match there have been at least 3 decisions that were incorrectly given out on the field, then inexplicably not overturned despite the overwhelming evidence.
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The umpiring has been absolutely shocking this series, and all the umpires on the elite panel should be available regardless of nationality.
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I think it's worth noting that australia have had a lot of lucky breaks in this match so far. We had the Khawaja eicket in our favour and not a lot else.
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They've earned their luck, they've played a lot better in all aspects. They're bowling was tight and forced mistakes, and their batting was positive. They've won 8 of 9 sessions and comfortably so.
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I'm not sure about that the one for broad that wasn't given (lbw vs smith) was about as clear as you can get (similar to the KP one this evening) you can't earn luck like that, we lost both reviews, 1 to an lbw where hawkeye had nearly 50% of the ball hitting and 1 where there was a noise but the tech found nothing to account for it. After that you have to question the umpire. The Clarke and Smith partnership then set up the situation they're now in when in real terms the performances up until that point were fairly similar.
I agree they're been much more aggressive and have made the most of the luck but if they'd lost their 4th wicket on 140ish like they should have the game would look very different. Our run rate is a concern I've always had but it doesn't change the fact that their first innings hinged on that smith decision.
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We just need Prior, Broad and Swann to avoid the follow on and hopefully a draw will be ours and the Ashes retained. Shame not to get 5-0 though.
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Am I being really thick or something but why don't they just use snick-o-meter in the DRS instead of hotspot which just seems a much poorer review method to determine if the batsman has slightly edged the ball.
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because snicko picks up other sounds which can be misleading, a hotspot on the bat is a definite edge, snicko can show a noise but it can't show exactly where the noise is from.
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If we look across the series both sides have had some shockers, so it's gone both ways. However Australia have been the much better side in this Test. As a bowling unit, they've been very good.
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No second innings collapse and we'll be OK. In an ideal world the run rate would be higher but grind it out, don't get out, frustrate them tomorrow and we keep the urn.
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Another poor first innings batting display.
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Another poor first innings batting display.
Yes basically, but it's more than that. Our bowling unit aren't performing either.
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It's going to take a great performance plus some weather to save us. Regardless of the result, our top order and our bowling unit needs to look at itself. Tremlett should be in, and if the batting fails again then Taylor should be in.
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We just need Prior, Broad and Swann to avoid the follow on and hopefully a draw will be ours and the Ashes retained. Shame not to get 5-0 though.
Yep avoiding the follow in will be key. Australia have to go for the win, so if we can avoid the follow on and get as near as possible to their first innings score, then they are going to have to gamble.
ps. I don't think I've ever seen an international coach with a Sky commentary ear piece in before. Is Lehmann hoping to pick up some tactical tips from Warne?
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It's going to take a great performance plus some weather to save us. Regardless of the result, our top order and our bowling unit needs to look at itself. Tremlett should be in, and if the batting fails again then Taylor should be in.
If Jimmy Anderson isn't on form and taking wickets, our bowling unit struggles.
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The bowling issues were that we bowled too short on a pitch better suited to bowling full. The australian seamers have had more joy because of length, nothing more.
England seem to pick bowlers who default to shorterr stuff when the pitch/conditions aren't helping, Broad, Finn and Tremlett are particularly guilty of it.
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It's going to take a great performance plus some weather to save us. Regardless of the result, our top order and our bowling unit needs to look at itself. Tremlett should be in, and if the batting fails again then Taylor should be in.
If Jimmy Anderson isn't on form and taking wickets, our bowling unit struggles.
He only took 3 wickets at Lords, and only 1 at Headingly against NZ. On both occasions we bowled the opposition out very cheaply in both innings
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Follow on avoided, good stuff.
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Broad doing well here.
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Broad gone, useful 32 but we need to get that lead down as much as possible.
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Broad gone, useful 32 but we need to get that lead down as much as possible.
Makes no difference now, Ashes are now retained. For sure stay there and take some time out of the game, i'm happy enough to see this peter out to a draw and move on to the next one.
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It's not finished yet, if the weather holds it could be a cracking game.
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Swann gone.
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Yeah plenty of time for all results if the weather holds. Been more impressed with the intent this morning. We've put a bit of pressure back on the Aussies and its going to be tough for Clarke now to get his tactics correct when they bat.
They are probably going to have to give us a decent chance of winning in order to give themselves a fighting chance of taking 10 more wickets
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This is good for another reason, Prior has got some time in the middle.
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Yeah, Pietersen, Prior and Cook have all spent some time in the middle at least, and all were short of form.
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Prior gone, well this will be interesting now. I wonder if they'll promote Warner? looks like it.
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It should be interesting cricket for the rest of today anyway. I'd have thought that if you could guarantee no weather interruption then Australia would want a minimum of 4 sessions to bowl at us on this extremely flat pitch
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Could have been worse, at 110-4 we looked fucked. Roll 'em over for 80 and knock them off by lunch tomorrow. Job done.
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The most encouraging aspect of that was KP finding form and Prior getting time in the middle. The concerns remain around Trott and Bairstow in particular. Also the fact the Root and Cook are yet to make a good opening partnership.
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I think there's a hell of a lot of pressure on Australia now. This has been/will be their best chance to win a test in this series.
They've bowled 140 overs now, and their bowlers will only get around 40-45 overs break.
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Hopefully Bairstow won't have to bat again in this match, but if he does and gets another low score then I think he should go back to Yorkshire for the rest of the summer and work on his game.
He's talented enough in my opinion, but doesn't strike me as having the temperament at this moment in time.
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Warner to open. I'd get Swann on pretty early
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Another poor first innings batting display.
Yes basically, but it's more than that. Our bowling unit aren't performing either.
I agree but we shouldn't have to rely on them all the time.
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Not a good start from Jimmy.
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Beauty from Broad. Seriously a couple of early wickets could have Aus bricking themselves.
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Yeah hopefully Anderson can bowl a lot lot better this innings, I really hope the rain stays away.
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I suppose around 350 4 times in a row, you could be highly generous about it and call it mediocre.
I think it papers over the cracks of the general awful form of the top order. There's generally been one batsmen who's stood up each time and rescued the situation. They need to start contributing as a unit, stop playing so many poor shots and take responsibility
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I suppose around 350 4 times in a row, you could be highly generous about it and call it mediocre.
I think it papers over the cracks of the general awful form of the top order. There's generally been one batsmen who's stood up each time and rescued the situation. They need to start contributing as a unit, stop playing so many poor shots and take responsibility
Agree completely.
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Not good so far from Jimmy. Every balls been bowled at leg stump
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Jimmy needs to go round the wicket if he can't keep the ball off the lefty's pads.
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Jimmy's making it a bit too easy for them to accumulate runs at the moment
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Jimmy is not bowling greatly at the moment.
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I very rarely say this, but Jimmy needs to be taken out of the attack
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Too many easy singles at the moment
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Broad gets Rogers, he's bowled much better than Anderson so far.
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To be fair to Jimmy I think he is working to a plan, trying to get the left handers playing across their pads and getting the ball to shape away from them looking for an edge. Or he might have just lost his line.
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I think Anderson has looked tired in this match.
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Good move to get Swann on. He's going to be more difficult to get after than the seamers
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Agreed, also Bresnan is steady but he's unlikely to rip through a side. Odd that Watson isn't in, he's ideal for this scenario.
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Agreed, also Bresnan is steady but he's unlikely to rip through a side. Odd that Watson isn't in, he's ideal for this scenario.
Ideal LBW candidate?
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I might even give Root one or two after lunch in tandem with Swann.
It can't be easy for the left handers to try and slog an off spinner out of the rough, and it would be hilarious if Root was to get Warner out
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Agreed, also Bresnan is steady but he's unlikely to rip through a side. Odd that Watson isn't in, he's ideal for this scenario.
Ideal LBW candidate?
He scores quick and they don't need a century from him here.
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Agreed, also Bresnan is steady but he's unlikely to rip through a side. Odd that Watson isn't in, he's ideal for this scenario.
Ideal LBW candidate?
He scores quick and they don't need a century from him here.
Added to that there wouldn't be two left handers for Swann to bowl at
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Yeah hopefully Anderson can bowl a lot lot better this innings, I really hope the rain stays away.
I don't. Pee down for the rest of the test please.
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Very negative field from Cook, we should be trying to take wickets.
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Very negative field from Cook, we should be trying to take wickets.
Again, disagree.With the weather forecast its about slowing them down.
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You slow them down if you take wickets.
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Its raining @ Headingley........rain is on its way
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Durham is a seamers wicket, so the next Test I think Bresnan has to come out for a wicket taking bowler.
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Lost a review there.
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I suspect that's another poor showing from hotspot.
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Yep snicko again showing what can only have been an edge
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It was looking at snicko, they need to get snicko involved in the reviews.
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Hotspot really needs to be jettisoned. It is clearly nowhere near the standard required.
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I thought there was a little mark on hotspot. Never mind.
Back to pwa. Yes, you slow them down by taking wickets but a side that scored 500+ for 7 in the first innings on a good batting track are unlikely to be all out in about 30 or 40 overs. so, slow them down.
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You won't slow Warner down much unless you get him out.
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Its a constant source of amazement at times how the commentators cannot see what the evidence is telling them. Atherton has become the worst at it
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Swann not bowling well at Warner. Too wide
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The danger with trying to slow a side down is that there can be far too many easy singles on offer, meaning they can take 4 or 5 an over without any risk
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Swann not bowling well at Warner. Too wide
Short as well.
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You won't slow Warner down much unless you get him out.
26 from 39 suggests otherwise.As has also been said,it doesn't help with swann bowling short off stumps long hops to him.
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Thats poor Broad
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We're bowling too short in general.
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Its been very odd so far. They have barely played a shot in anger and are still going at nearly 4 an over
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This is not good. We seem to be doing everything we can to help them get to their target lead as quickly as possible
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Far far too short. Australia's seamers worked this pitch out, you have to pitch it up. We are bowling far too short and it's proving easy to score runs.
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This is crap
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This is the problem with a spread field, far too many easy ones and twos.
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Don't you dare be injured Jimmy
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Jimmy looks in trouble and fucking hell that was sharp bounce from Bres.
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Root catches Warner.
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Brilliant. Only right that Root played a part in Warner's dismissal
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At least Warner managed to connect with Root on this occasion
(Gets coat)
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FFS
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Khawaja bowled out by Swann.
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Watson gone, Bres is picking up some nice easy wickets here. It's a great time to ball.
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Bresnan has generally bowled a much better length than Jimmy and Broad all match in fairness to him.
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Swann has bowled pretty poorly in this innings
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Clarke just ran out Smith shockingly.
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Rain
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If Australia have any sense they'll declare now.
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Can imagine the Aussie bowlers will still be pretty tired by the time they come to bowl again. They've barely had any rest and Harris doesn't come across as the fittest
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Really don't understand why we've bowled so many shite short balls in this innings.
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Haddin gone.
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Little odd they are still batting
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The amount of 2's we've conceded with these fields isn't really on.
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Why are we just allowing Australia to do whatever the hell they like?
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This is really poor captaincy from Cook
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350 run lead and they'll declare.
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350 run lead and they'll declare.
Hope so. Mad to bat on that long
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Review it, just to waste time
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This is really poor captaincy from Cook
He's got a lot to learn about captaincy. Far too conservative at times.
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Plus side is this is still a dream to bat
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This is really poor captaincy from Cook
What do you suggest then - 4 slips and 2 gully's ?
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Very odd wicket
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Good wickets for Jimmy's average this.
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You won't hear Jimmy complain. Nor Cook, that's another 2 minutes we don't have to bat.
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This is really poor captaincy from Cook
What do you suggest then - 4 slips and 2 gully's ?
It's not just the field placings, its the lack of urgency in our fielding. They've been allowed to run too many 2's that shouldn't have been. I also think Swann's bowled largely poorly in this innings, yet hasn't been taken off
Bresnan was bowling ok earlier, he should have been used more this innings
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Its all about time. They run two and it takes longer to bowl the next ball than a dot and back to the bowler. What they score is irrelevant, keep them out there.
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See it might benefit us, but why are they going off for light when they have flood lights?
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That's poor from a cricketing perspective.
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What a waste of electricity
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Get them back on. It's the Aussies who want to bat, let them.
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It looked to me as if the umpire said to Cook you have to bowl spin only, or we'll go off. Must have been a tough call for Cook
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See it might benefit us, but why are they going off for light when they have flood lights?
It's the umpires not the captains who decide now.
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It does beg the question what the point of the floodlights are though. Seems to me that the paying spectators are the last people taken into account
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See it might benefit us, but why are they going off for light when they have flood lights?
It's the umpires not the captains who decide now.
I know, but I think from a cricketing perspective with all those people in the crowd it's daft.
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It does beg the question what the point of the floodlights are though. Seems to me that the paying spectators are the last people taken into account
Absolutely, I understand the safety issues but they've got flood lights and they'd play limited overs cricket in these conditions.
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Absolutely, but the Old Trafford hierachy couldn't care less, we are well past refund time. I still believe we can win this game though, I'd rather be playing.
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Away from this game briefly, Ballance has had another good game for Yorkshire.
Seems with him, Taylor and Bairstow if he can get to grips with his game that England have some exciting young batsmen
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Away from this game briefly, Ballance has had another good game for Yorkshire.
Seems with him, Taylor and Bairstow if he can get to grips with his game that England have some exciting young batsmen
Absolutely, we are just looking for the next Jimmy Anderson ;)
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Away from this game briefly, Ballance has had another good game for Yorkshire.
Seems with him, Taylor and Bairstow if he can get to grips with his game that England have some exciting young batsmen
Absolutely, we are just looking for the next Jimmy Anderson ;)
That might be a tad bit trickier!
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Away from this game briefly, Ballance has had another good game for Yorkshire.
Seems with him, Taylor and Bairstow if he can get to grips with his game that England have some exciting young batsmen
Stupidly forgot Root
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This is why I was glad to see Root going to the top of the order, good batsmen at 1,2,3 are hard to find. With Cook not on top of his game at the moment there is a lot of pressure on the lad and if he comes out of this then England's line up is looking solid for the next 6 years until Cook retires. It is strange to see so many England batsmen struggling on home turf, we've been a ton light in just about each of the six innings so far. Obviously I mean five....just can't think straight on sundays.
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Steve Smith is starting to look a good cricketer, I like him as a player.
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Weather forecast for today suggests that we've retained the Ashes.
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11:30 start. Australia declare. 98 overs, 3.3 ish per over. Let's do this.
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We're never chasing it down, it's going to be hell to bat out there. We've got to knuckle down.
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I do think we need to play positively though, because the more runs we get and the quicker we get them the less the Aussies can attack.
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Cook gone and once again our opening pair have put on nothing. It really needs to be addressed, our starts in every innings this series have been atrocious.
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I've got money on 5-0. Come on KP!
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Oh and Cook wasted a shocking review.
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Oh and Cook wasted a shocking review.
Joe Root should have just told him to just walk off. That wasted review could prove to be invaluable later in the day.
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Our opening partnership has been absolutely awful throughout this series.
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Not good from Cook. He was a long way from blocking that one. He's having a poor series so far
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I do think we need to play positively though, because the more runs we get and the quicker we get them the less the Aussies can attack.
This is the key for me, I think England have a bit of a habit of 'defending deep' in these situations when actually you need to counter a little. If we can have a run of 8-9 overs going at 4-5 they're going t0o start getting nervous of us chasing it down and their field becomes more defensive and takes the pressure off.
Trott seems to have come out with the right attitude though and is looking to score off the poor balls, if he can keep this going for a few overs the aussie approach will have to change.
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Root does tend to get himself into a shell sometimes.
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I do think we need to play positively though, because the more runs we get and the quicker we get them the less the Aussies can attack.
This is the key for me, I think England have a bit of a habit of 'defending deep' in these situations when actually you need to counter a little. If we can have a run of 8-9 overs going at 4-5 they're going t0o start getting nervous of us chasing it down and their field becomes more defensive and takes the pressure off.
Trott seems to have come out with the right attitude though and is looking to score off the poor balls, if he can keep this going for a few overs the aussie approach will have to change.
Exactly and unsurprisingly we have dug into our trench now, 13 off 11 overs. It means that Australia can have ultra attacking fields and it's a poor way to try and bat out the day. We need to put pressure back on Australia here.
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And Trott gets out to a really poor shot down the legside.
Yet another pathetic top order start
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Wholly negative attitude from our bowling in the first innings, our batting in our first and now just trying to bat through 98 overs without even trying to put some doubt in the Aussies minds.
Oh and Trott gone now as well!
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Pathetic again from Trott, our top order have been desperately poor as a unit. If they were bowlers one of them would have been dropped by now. This simply isn't good enough, if you dig yourself into a trench the pressure on the next man coming in is horrendous.
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Root does tend to get himself into a shell sometimes.
He's spent too much time with Sir Geoffrey
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Its not good enough anymore from our top order. I get the feeling that one or two of them know their place is secure no matter what they do.
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Can't see the weather helping us. Forecasters appear to have botched that up
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Its not good enough anymore from our top order. I get the feeling that one or two of them know their place is secure no matter what they do.
Yep I completely agree, there is too much security in their position for some of the batsmen.
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At least with KP there he will try to attack.
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fucks sakes
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That's it. Rain or defeat.
Utterly pathetic but totally predictable
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Now KP gone, this is fucking pathetic. Both reviews gone, and if we lose we'll thoroughly deserve it. We have been pretty poor across the series, a few individual displays excepted, now the Aussies are performing we look completely hopeless.
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Also what is the point of hotspot? If they're now disregarding it, why bother having it?
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I'm only guessing here, but I reckon that's at least the 5th time this series we've been 3 down for under 40.
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Had to laugh when Nasser said that hotspot is 98 to 99% accurate. What a load of bollocks. Unless the batsman knocks the cover of it, it doesn't show up. It's embarrassing for the ICC.
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This should possibly go in a 'unpopular cricket opinions' thread but...I wouldn't be too upset if Australia were to win this Test. Would be nice to see cricket featuring still on the back pages and TV news for a few more weeks before we get the football saturation, once the Ashes series is won it will be relegated to a few paragraphs between the latest Mourinho musings and whether Ferguson will be staying away from Old Trafford, neither of which I give a flying fuck about.
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Our batsmen have seemed totally unprepared for this innings. As if they expected not to have to bat for a no of hours. Cook played completely the wrong line, Trott played a poor shot down the legside and KP played a ridiculously loose shot to a decent ball.
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Our batsmen have seemed totally unprepared for this innings. As if they expected not to have to bat for a no of hours. Cook played completely the wrong line, Trott played a poor shot down the legside and KP played a ridiculously loose shot to a decent ball.
That's what Cook and Trott have looked like all series, in fairness to KP, Cook and Root's opening partnership has been so diabolical, and Trott so poor that he's essentially been an opener this series.
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This should possibly go in a 'unpopular cricket opinions' thread but...I wouldn't be too upset if Australia were to win this Test. Would be nice to see cricket featuring still on the back pages and TV news for a few more weeks before we get the football saturation, once the Ashes series is won it will be relegated to a few paragraphs between the latest Mourinho musings and whether Ferguson will be staying away from Old Trafford, neither of which I give a flying fuck about.
I can see what you mean. However I had a flutter on this test being a draw before it started, so this is a frustrating morning for me!
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If we retain the Ashes today, there should be no real celebration. We've been terrible in this game, and we deserve to lose.
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I am wondering if Flower's time as head coach is coming to an end. He's been great for us he really has, but we've been on a fairly steady decline for a while and that doesn't appear to be being addressed. I know we're 2-0 up here, but that is mainly through Australia being desperately poor in the first two games.
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If Australia hadn't dropped a couple of simple catches, Root wouldn't have made double figures in this series. He has one brilliant innings, 4 shockers and one to be decided.
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You could probably say that about every single player, if they hadn't been dropped, if snicko had been available, if the umpires weren't so poor etc etc.
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Watching the cook wicket again. How on earth could he review that?
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You could probably say that about every single player, if they hadn't been dropped, if snicko had been available, if the umpires weren't so poor etc etc.
Maybe but it's rare that players give gilt edge chances every single innings within the first few overs. At the moment the Cook and Root partnership isn't working at all.
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Eurythmics time
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It will be a bit of a shame if this ends up as a draw because of the rain but it shouldn't be a surprise. I called it as a draw at the start because the weather foecast always made 5 days unlikely. I think we've been pretty lucky to have not had more disruptions so far.
Before the series i suggested 4-0 with the weather causing a draw, I didn't expect the aussies to be the ones missing out because of the weather but I hold to that prediction. We've learned a lot more about this aussie team from this match than we did in the first 2, the main thing being that despite us being better in all areas they've got enough spirit and raw ability to make us work for it. I think the first 2 tests left us a little bit unprepared for them to turn up in Manchester with some backbone.
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To be honest Paul, I'm not sure how much better we are. They're bowling as a unit looks better and they're the only team to have put on a big score in a first innings. Our batsmen have good stats behind them, but other than Bell none of them are performing anywhere near consistently enough.
Additionally they are far more positive than us, we seem negative and lack inspiration a lot of the time.
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We won the 2nd test by 347 runs despite some slightly ropey batting - that's the gap.
First test was closer than it should've been because we bowled badly to the tail but they needed 2 mammoth 10th wicket stands to make a game of it.
As for the bowling units comment I think they're as reliant on Siddle and Harris as we are on Jimmy and Swann, if not more so. Broad has been pretty unlucky so far for me and has deserved more wickets than he has and Bresnan bowled really well in the 2nd test and rightly earned his place. 1st Innings here the team as a whole misjudged the pitch and bowled too short, I don't think you can blame the individual bowlers for it though as it was clearly the plan.
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It's always raining in Manchester it has more days of rain than any other English city. Makes you wonder why it's even considered as a test venue.
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I would imagine because its one of the best selling grounds, has one of the best atmospheres and some of the best games there.
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All very true. I just like having a pop at Manchester for being a piss soaked paradise for umbrella salesmen.
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We should survive here, but I think the batting order needs to be looked at.
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Bren'd that made me laugh....except if its raining in manx, its fecking raining in crewe too!
Ashes retained. Pretty impressed how Australia have battled in this test. Shame they didnt show it a bit more when they could have had more influence (ie test one and test two). Mind you, i know and work with a lot of Aussies. This is sweet.
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Onions and Tremlett in at Durham? Drop Bresnan, rest Jimmy. Give Taylor the last two matches at 6? Something has to change. Mind you, how different it would have been had we batted first, in the best batting conditions...
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Well firstly it's great to retain the Ashes, but there are a lot of questions that have been raised. Are Root and Cook a good opening partnership? at the moment it doesn't look like it. Should Trott be under more pressure for his place? possibly. Is Bairstow good enough at this stage? Not sure really. Is the bowling unit performing well enough together? probably not.
I'm a little disappointed that Taylor has dropped out of the squad for Durham, it just seems the batsmen are under no pressure to perform(which as a unit they're not) but the bowlers can be dropped after one bad game. Since 2012 we have scored over 400 in 8 out of 44 innings, that is not a good stat. It suggests that all is not well in that unit, and it must improve. I think I'd be inclined to play Onions and Tremlett at Durham, as our bowlers need freshening up. Australia's attack looked fresh in this game and much more threatening. I also think our team needs a bit of work on PR, they always seem scratchy and irritable with the press and it doesn't help.
Still if you'd offered me retaining the Ashes in the 3rd Test back in the 90's I'd have bitten your hand off!
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Well firstly it's great to retain the Ashes, but there are a lot of questions that have been raised. Are Root and Cook a good opening partnership? at the moment it doesn't look like it. Should Trott be under more pressure for his place? possibly. Is Bairstow good enough at this stage? Not sure really. Is the bowling unit performing well enough together? probably not.
I'm a little disappointed that Taylor has dropped out of the squad for Durham, it just seems the batsmen are under no pressure to perform(which as a unit they're not) but the bowlers can be dropped after one bad game. Since 2012 we have scored over 400 in 8 out of 44 innings, that is not a good stat. It suggests that all is not well in that unit, and it must improve. I think I'd be inclined to play Onions and Tremlett at Durham, as our bowlers need freshening up. Australia's attack looked fresh in this game and much more threatening. I also think our team needs a bit of work on PR, they always seem scratchy and irritable with the press and it doesn't help.
Still if you'd offered me retaining the Ashes in the 3rd Test back in the 90's I'd have bitten your hand off!
The last line is the important bit. We've retained the ashes as the earliest possible point in the tour, that needs to be considered before any snap judgements on the team.
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Well firstly it's great to retain the Ashes, but there are a lot of questions that have been raised. Are Root and Cook a good opening partnership?
Opening partnerships take time to develop, both are talented openers, Cook has proved it at Test level, Root is a tremendous prospect, I'd stick with this right through both Ashes series and see where they are then.
Should Trott be under more pressure for his place?
Yes. A series of poor displays now, I'd rest him and Bairstow and see what players like Ballance and Taylor can do.
Is the bowling unit performing well enough together?
Yes. We won the first two tests because of the bowling (and Ian Bell), Australia just took advantage of a lovely pitch and a rare Anderson off day. Not to say that Onions or Tremlett shouldn't be given a go but there's not much wrong here.
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I also think our team needs a bit of work on PR, they always seem scratchy and irritable with the press and it doesn't help.
Granted I only have access to TMS, the highlights on 5 and interviews in The Guardian and Observer but I'm not sure what you mean by this. Seems like another stick to beat them with to me!
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Well firstly it's great to retain the Ashes, but there are a lot of questions that have been raised. Are Root and Cook a good opening partnership?
Opening partnerships take time to develop, both are talented openers, Cook has proved it at Test level, Root is a tremendous prospect, I'd stick with this right through both Ashes series and see where they are then.
Should Trott be under more pressure for his place?
Yes. A series of poor displays now, I'd rest him and Bairstow and see what players like Ballance and Taylor can do.
Is the bowling unit performing well enough together?
Yes. We won the first two tests because of the bowling (and Ian Bell), Australia just took advantage of a lovely pitch and a rare Anderson off day. Not to say that Onions or Tremlett shouldn't be given a go but there's not much wrong here.
Agree X3
Very good summing up of the situation, the 2 changes mentioned are the 2 I'd consider, although trott staying and Taylor in at 6 would probably be my choice. I've said all along that I don't think Bairstow is ready and nothing has changed my opinion on that. We're going to ruin him if we persist when he's mentally unable to cope with the pressure of an ashes series.
I'm happy with the bowlers but I think Onions should be in with a good shout for the next match given it's his county ground. It really depends on who takes the blame for the first innings in this test. As I've said all along I think the plan was wrong but that the bowlers did what they were asked, in which case it's harsh for any of them to drop out.
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Now the Ashes have been retained we need to look at other options. Taylor, Tremlett and Onions deserve to be give a game or two at Durham and the Oval.
Trott has not a such a poor scoring run in the England set up so he deserves our patience. Bairstow just doesn't convince yet and may go the way of Morgan and Bopara. Broad has bowled better than his figures show but he, Bresnan and Finn need to improve. Swann is the best spinner we've had in decades and Prior as a wicket keeper batsman does the job well. Cook and Root need to establish a good understanding. I'm still not convinced Root is an opener but he is definately a test class batsman.
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Well done England
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Well firstly it's great to retain the Ashes, but there are a lot of questions that have been raised. Are Root and Cook a good opening partnership?
Opening partnerships take time to develop, both are talented openers, Cook has proved it at Test level, Root is a tremendous prospect, I'd stick with this right through both Ashes series and see where they are then.
Should Trott be under more pressure for his place?
Yes. A series of poor displays now, I'd rest him and Bairstow and see what players like Ballance and Taylor can do.
Is the bowling unit performing well enough together?
Yes. We won the first two tests because of the bowling (and Ian Bell), Australia just took advantage of a lovely pitch and a rare Anderson off day. Not to say that Onions or Tremlett shouldn't be given a go but there's not much wrong here.
Yeah I imagine that they'll continue with the opening partnership for the remainder of the series, my main concern with it is that I don't want it to damage Root's development. Trott needs to start performing definitely, as exposing KP early generally isn't in our best interest. I think Tremlett and Onions should come in, because we need to have several options available.
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Yeah I imagine that they'll continue with the opening partnership for the remainder of the series, my main concern with it is that I don't want it to damage Root's development.
I don't think it will, he has shown a lot of maturity so far. He's had a couple of poor innings but has bounced back immediately, openers will always get out cheaply now and again, they are facing the new ball against fresh bowlers remember.
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Well firstly it's great to retain the Ashes, but there are a lot of questions that have been raised. Are Root and Cook a good opening partnership?
Opening partnerships take time to develop, both are talented openers, Cook has proved it at Test level, Root is a tremendous prospect, I'd stick with this right through both Ashes series and see where they are then.
Should Trott be under more pressure for his place?
Yes. A series of poor displays now, I'd rest him and Bairstow and see what players like Ballance and Taylor can do.
Is the bowling unit performing well enough together?
Yes. We won the first two tests because of the bowling (and Ian Bell), Australia just took advantage of a lovely pitch and a rare Anderson off day. Not to say that Onions or Tremlett shouldn't be given a go but there's not much wrong here.
I'd disagree with the bowling being not a problem. A four man attack should be just that, Broad is more perception than delivery and Bresnan doesn't take big hauls regularly enough either. The only mitigation would be the team tactic of digging the ball in short rather than bowling a length more appropriate to the wicket.
We still have the problem that we can look very ordinary on a less than helpful track. I'd still argue that Australia has a better all round attack.
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Well firstly it's great to retain the Ashes, but there are a lot of questions that have been raised. Are Root and Cook a good opening partnership?
Opening partnerships take time to develop, both are talented openers, Cook has proved it at Test level, Root is a tremendous prospect, I'd stick with this right through both Ashes series and see where they are then.
Should Trott be under more pressure for his place?
Yes. A series of poor displays now, I'd rest him and Bairstow and see what players like Ballance and Taylor can do.
Is the bowling unit performing well enough together?
Yes. We won the first two tests because of the bowling (and Ian Bell), Australia just took advantage of a lovely pitch and a rare Anderson off day. Not to say that Onions or Tremlett shouldn't be given a go but there's not much wrong here.
I'd disagree with the bowling being not a problem. A four man attack should be just that, Broad is more perception than delivery and Bresnan doesn't take big hauls regularly enough either. The only mitigation would be the team tactic of digging the ball in short rather than bowling a length more appropriate to the wicket.
We still have the problem that we can look very ordinary on a less than helpful track. I'd still argue that Australia has a better all round attack.
I disagree completely on the last point. Australia have got over 300 once in 6 innings. If that was England we'd be slating th batsmen and lauding their attack. We were piss poor in the first innings at Old Trafford, that's plain to see but in the other 5 we've taken 47 wickets at an average of just over 23.6 - that's a phenomenal bowling record against anyone. Even with the first innings at OT included we average just over 30 as a team. On top of that they're been just as reliant on Siddle and Harris as we have on Anderson and Swann. For info their team wide bowling average is 34, even after this match, so we're still average around 40runs a innings more than them.
Bresnan has been fine, 7 wickets in 2 matches as the 4th bowler is perfectly acceptable.
Broad is the toughie, he needs more wickets but he's bowled some really good spells and has been on the wrong end of a few iffy decisions that have damaged his average quite significantly. He's the one who should be under pressure though, however he's provided a lot of very important runs down the bottom so far (he's averaging 38.5 for the series) and given the bowling is generally working he's probably safe for Durham, he needs some wickets there though.
Final point, I'm getting pretty fed up of the amount of times I've read we're over-reliant on Swann and Jimmy, we have 2 of the top 5 bowlers in the world, what do people expect of them other than to bowl well and win us matches?
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Now the Ashes have been retained we need to look at other options. Taylor, Tremlett and Onions deserve to be give a game or two at Durham and the Oval.
Trott has not a such a poor scoring run in the England set up so he deserves our patience. Bairstow just doesn't convince yet and may go the way of Morgan and Bopara. Broad has bowled better than his figures show but he, Bresnan and Finn need to improve. Swann is the best spinner we've had in decades and Prior as a wicket keeper batsman does the job well. Cook and Root need to establish a good understanding. I'm still not convinced Root is an opener but he is definately a test class batsman.
Not sure about that Andy. We want to win the Ashes outright and I would only begin to look at other options if we are going into the final test 3-1 up. Compton seems to be out of the picture, but I think we were stronger with him opening and Root batting at 6.
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Well firstly it's great to retain the Ashes, but there are a lot of questions that have been raised. Are Root and Cook a good opening partnership?
Opening partnerships take time to develop, both are talented openers, Cook has proved it at Test level, Root is a tremendous prospect, I'd stick with this right through both Ashes series and see where they are then.
Should Trott be under more pressure for his place?
Yes. A series of poor displays now, I'd rest him and Bairstow and see what players like Ballance and Taylor can do.
Is the bowling unit performing well enough together?
Yes. We won the first two tests because of the bowling (and Ian Bell), Australia just took advantage of a lovely pitch and a rare Anderson off day. Not to say that Onions or Tremlett shouldn't be given a go but there's not much wrong here.
I'd disagree with the bowling being not a problem. A four man attack should be just that, Broad is more perception than delivery and Bresnan doesn't take big hauls regularly enough either. The only mitigation would be the team tactic of digging the ball in short rather than bowling a length more appropriate to the wicket.
We still have the problem that we can look very ordinary on a less than helpful track. I'd still argue that Australia has a better all round attack.
I disagree completely on the last point. Australia have got over 300 once in 6 innings. If that was England we'd be slating th batsmen and lauding their attack. We were piss poor in the first innings at Old Trafford, that's plain to see but in the other 5 we've taken 47 wickets at an average of just over 23.6 - that's a phenomenal bowling record against anyone. Even with the first innings at OT included we average just over 30 as a team. On top of that they're been just as reliant on Siddle and Harris as we have on Anderson and Swann. For info their team wide bowling average is 34, even after this match, so we're still average around 40runs a innings more than them.
Bresnan has been fine, 7 wickets in 2 matches as the 4th bowler is perfectly acceptable.
Broad is the toughie, he needs more wickets but he's bowled some really good spells and has been on the wrong end of a few iffy decisions that have damaged his average quite significantly. He's the one who should be under pressure though, however he's provided a lot of very important runs down the bottom so far (he's averaging 38.5 for the series) and given the bowling is generally working he's probably safe for Durham, he needs some wickets there though.
Final point, I'm getting pretty fed up of the amount of times I've read we're over-reliant on Swann and Jimmy, we have 2 of the top 5 bowlers in the world, what do people expect of them other than to bowl well and win us matches?
For me, it should be a choice between Broad or Bresnan and probably not both. I'd personally like to see Tremlett given another go with an eye on the return series in a few months time.
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I disagree completely on the last point. Australia have got over 300 once in 6 innings. If that was England we'd be slating th batsmen and lauding their attack. We were piss poor in the first innings at Old Trafford, that's plain to see but in the other 5 we've taken 47 wickets at an average of just over 23.6 - that's a phenomenal bowling record against anyone. Even with the first innings at OT included we average just over 30 as a team. On top of that they're been just as reliant on Siddle and Harris as we have on Anderson and Swann. For info their team wide bowling average is 34, even after this match, so we're still average around 40runs a innings more than them.
Bresnan has been fine, 7 wickets in 2 matches as the 4th bowler is perfectly acceptable.
Broad is the toughie, he needs more wickets but he's bowled some really good spells and has been on the wrong end of a few iffy decisions that have damaged his average quite significantly. He's the one who should be under pressure though, however he's provided a lot of very important runs down the bottom so far (he's averaging 38.5 for the series) and given the bowling is generally working he's probably safe for Durham, he needs some wickets there though.
Final point, I'm getting pretty fed up of the amount of times I've read we're over-reliant on Swann and Jimmy, we have 2 of the top 5 bowlers in the world, what do people expect of them other than to bowl well and win us matches?
Yep.
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Now the Ashes have been retained we need to look at other options.
I am not so hooked on this "ashes retention" business. It's of no value in a stand alone test series that England need to win. So no experimenting etc and go for a win in the 4th to secure the series.
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Well Lehmann has said that Australia have 'exposed the cracks' in the England batting line up. That should be the perfect motivation for our batsmen to perform now.
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Now the Ashes have been retained we need to look at other options. Taylor, Tremlett and Onions deserve to be give a game or two at Durham and the Oval.
Trott has not a such a poor scoring run in the England set up so he deserves our patience. Bairstow just doesn't convince yet and may go the way of Morgan and Bopara. Broad has bowled better than his figures show but he, Bresnan and Finn need to improve. Swann is the best spinner we've had in decades and Prior as a wicket keeper batsman does the job well. Cook and Root need to establish a good understanding. I'm still not convinced Root is an opener but he is definately a test class batsman.
Not sure about that Andy. We want to win the Ashes outright and I would only begin to look at other options if we are going into the final test 3-1 up. Compton seems to be out of the picture, but I think we were stronger with him opening and Root batting at 6.
Yes Root is better off further down the order away from the new cherry. I agree with you that we want to win the series outright, but we should at least look at Tremlett at the Oval and Onions at Durham due to the bowling condtions at those venues suiting their styles of bowling. Taylor has been left out for Friday so, Bairstow has been given another chance to shine by the looks of it.
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They'll give Bairstow a chance and let hi play the series. However,he'sout of his depth. Just like every yorkshireman ever.
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I think there's a chance they'll play Onions in this game and then Tremlett at the Oval. I'd be inclined to play both, they're both excellent bowlers and we need to cultivate options.
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They'll give Bairstow a chance and let hi play the series. However,he'sout of his depth. Just like every yorkshireman ever.
Ha, ha, split my sides laughing.
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They'll give Bairstow a chance and let hi play the series. However,he'sout of his depth. Just like every yorkshireman ever.
Racist.
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KP accused of using silicon tape to hide edge detection, he's not very happy.
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I have read that "they" are wondering whether anything put on the bat (by manufacturers etc) might cause it not to show up on hot spot.
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Is it wrong that Monty Panesar pissing on some bouncers makes me like him more?
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I reckon it's bollocks and hot spot just isn't good enough.
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Is it wrong that Monty Panesar pissing on some bouncers makes me like him more?
I wouldn't get too attached, I've heard some pretty weird rumours about him.
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Carberry 100 in 20/20.
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Is it wrong that Monty Panesar pissing on some bouncers makes me like him more?
Makes me think he should be a footballer instead.
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Anyone else think England would be stronger with Compton opening and Root at 6?
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Anyone else think England would be stronger with Compton opening and Root at 6?
I don't particularly rate Compton, if someone deserves a go it's Carberry. I know he's older but his form is excellent.
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regarding Compton and Root, as far as I'm concerned they've got similar strengths and weaknesses and fairly comparable records so it comes down to long term thinking, in which case I think Root could be an england opener for 10-12 years, Compton doesn't offer that so I'd rather let Root have this ashes and the return trip and then see where he is.
6 is the problem position, we have lots of players with promise but none of them have really pushed on. Bairstow has the potential to be very good but isn't mentally prepared, Bopara and Morgan have technical flaws, moving Broad or Bres doesn't work because the top order isn't firing. I think Taylor is the obvious choice but there are clear question marks over his fielding which is holding him back. I also think there's a chance he might come in for Prior if the latter doesn't get some form with the bat, he's had a woeful series, he's the one I'm most disappointed with of the entire batting line up.
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I think Taylor deserves a shot at number 6, his fielding isn't that bad. It can also be developed with good coaching.
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I'm not writing off Bairstow by the way, but I think Taylor has earnt a chance.
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I think Taylor deserves a shot at number 6, his fielding isn't that bad. It can also be developed with good coaching.
I agree, I'm just convinced that's the reason he hasn't had more game time as he looked fine when he did get some game time and has improved since. I think he could turn into a nice collingwood style middle order 'nurdler', which we have really missed. The other worry is that a top 6 of cook, root, trott, KP, bell and Taylor would be heavily reliant on KP to aggressive, all of the others are more defensive and we could become a bit one paced, I'm convinced that's why Bairstow is being retained.
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Quite possibly and the fact that in general we don't like discarding batsmen without opportunity nowawdays. Although I suppose Compton got the boot pretty quick.
I'm concerned if Jackson Bird plays against us at Durham I reckon he could be very dangerous.
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Australia's seam attack has been a better unit than ours this series if you look at the stats. That's why I think Onions should certainly come in and possibly Tremlett as well. Our seam unit needs to be getting wickets at a much lower average.
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Australia's seam attack has been a better unit than ours this series if you look at the stats. That's why I think Onions should certainly come in and possibly Tremlett as well. Our seam unit needs to be getting wickets at a much lower average.
You can't view it in isolation like that, our 2 front line bowlers are Anderson and Swann, Theirs are Siddle and Harris so their seamers will have better stats, but when Swann has taken 19 wickets out of the 54 that have fallen comparing seam to seam is misleading. I could counter it by saying our spin attack has completely wiped the floor with theirs (22 wickets with Root's added). A lot of our bowling plans are based around building pressure with the seamers so they try to slog Swann at the other end so you have to look at the attack as a whole. When you do that we've skittled them cheaply 4 times (2 of those requiring massive 10th wicket stands to scrap respectability) and failed once, with the 2nd innings at old trafford largely impossible to judge as they were trying to score quick runs.
The bowlers, as a unit, have therefore succeeded 4/5 times out of 6, that hardly requires major changes. Finn had a couple of appalling sessions which were largely responsible for the 10th wicket stands mentioned above so he was dropped out of the squad but no one else has bowled particularly poorly. Broads stats don't loom great but I don't think they're a fair reflection of how he's bowled, he's personally been on the wrong end of 3 poor calls from the umpires, on top of that he's scored a lot of important runs so it would be harsh to drop him. Bresnan's figures are very good for a 4th bowler.
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I think Starc has better figures than Bresnan as well. I'm not specifically slating our bowling unit, but I think we need to look at the lengths we bowl. On the whole at Old Trafford we were too short and the Aussies had their lengths right. That's why I think Onions in particular could be a good pick.
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I wouldn't drop Prior because of his batting. This is the first series where he has had a poor run with the bat unlike any of the other top order so he deserves some leeway. Where I am concerned is his work with the gloves which has been very very poor.
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I wouldn't drop Prior because of his batting. This is the first series where he has had a poor run with the bat unlike any of the other top order so he deserves some leeway. Where I am concerned is his work with the gloves which has been very very poor.
I think he's been poor in both aspects, which is why I think he's the closest to being rested.
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There's not a chance they'll drop Prior.
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There's not a chance they'll drop Prior.
certainly not in this series but if he matches this form down under I think his place will be under huge threat. he's averaging 17 for the series with the bat, that's a far bigger concern than almost anything else raised on this thread. Aside from that it's the way he's got out that's the most disappointing, his shot selection has been woeful, with a least a couple of his wickets coming from lashing at one well outside off when the situation was that he needed to hang around and build an innings.
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There's not a chance they'll drop Prior.
certainly not in this series but if he matches this form down under I think his place will be under huge threat. he's averaging 17 for the series with the bat, that's a far bigger concern than almost anything else raised on this thread. Aside from that it's the way he's got out that's the most disappointing, his shot selection has been woeful, with a least a couple of his wickets coming from lashing at one well outside off when the situation was that he needed to hang around and build an innings.
That's not his game and I don't think it ever will be. Unless he's aggressive he just becomes an easy target so I don't see him being left out for the reasons you suggest. The selectors know what they'll get with him and have enough steady Eddie types elsewhere in the line up to cover.
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England unchanged, not overly happy with the bowling. The seamers need to turn up in this game, no more talk of bowling well but not taking wickets. If you're bowling well you need to take wickets.
Come on England win well please, batting first. It's time our batsmen turned up and put on a good first innings score.
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Not too sure about batting to be honest. Cook, Trott, Prior all in woeful form and conditions will be tricky with overcast skies. Our batsmen have played averagely in ideal batting conditions, so theyll need to be much better today.
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Did Simon Mann just say that Cook averages only 24 in home tests ?
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Did Simon Mann just say that Cook averages only 24 in home tests ?
At home vs Australia that is correct.
Looking on the BBC feed there are some people who don't let reality get in the way of a good rant. One suggesting Broad should be dropped with:
"Should pick Onions for Broard, no runs, few wickets, blows far too hot & cold to be a fixture in the England team!"
Now the inconsistency I can agree with but complaining about the batting of a number 9 who's average 37 is just silly.
I also quite like:
"Finn was dropped from a winning side for match figures of 2-117, yet Broad and Bresnan keep their places for match figures of 2-138 and 3-139 respectively. Onions and Tremlett must be scratching their heads."
This is a more common one but it's fairly simple, he wasn't dropped because of his figures, he was dropped because he looked out of his depth. He's had to do a lot of work on his action because of his knee clipping the wickets and overstepping the crease, this work isn't fully embedded yet so his pace was down, his length was poor and he was drifting onto the pads with an offside field. All of those suggest he needed more time working on his action, which is best to give him away from an ashes series.
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If he did he was wrong the only ground in this country where his average is below 40 is at Trent Bridge where he only averages 21.5 in 7 tests.
At every other ground he averages over 40 and this game is his 53rd test at home. Incidentally his highest average of 61.33 is at Durham but only consists of 3 test including this one which includes this current innings.
His highest average of completed matches is at Edgbaston where he averages 57.62 in 6 test matches
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Did Simon Mann just say that Cook averages only 24 in home tests ?
At home vs Australia that is correct.
Looking on the BBC feed there are some people who don't let reality get in the way of a good rant. One suggesting Broad should be dropped with:
"Should pick Onions for Broard, no runs, few wickets, blows far too hot & cold to be a fixture in the England team!"
Now the inconsistency I can agree with but complaining about the batting of a number 9 who's average 37 is just silly.
I also quite like:
"Finn was dropped from a winning side for match figures of 2-117, yet Broad and Bresnan keep their places for match figures of 2-138 and 3-139 respectively. Onions and Tremlett must be scratching their heads."
This is a more common one but it's fairly simple, he wasn't dropped because of his figures, he was dropped because he looked out of his depth. He's had to do a lot of work on his action because of his knee clipping the wickets and overstepping the crease, this work isn't fully embedded yet so his pace was down, his length was poor and he was drifting onto the pads with an offside field. All of those suggest he needed more time working on his action, which is best to give him away from an ashes series.
Whilst that's true, Bresnan's and Broad's figures are not good enough and unless they improve in this match someone else deserves an opportunity. Broad is average of 56 a wicket this series, and whether he's been unlucky or not that is poor. In a 3 man seam attack I still don't think Bresnan offers enough penetration.
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I see we're batting out time, for the draw... 17/0 off 10 overs.
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Did Simon Mann just say that Cook averages only 24 in home tests ?
At home vs Australia that is correct.
Looking on the BBC feed there are some people who don't let reality get in the way of a good rant. One suggesting Broad should be dropped with:
"Should pick Onions for Broard, no runs, few wickets, blows far too hot & cold to be a fixture in the England team!"
Now the inconsistency I can agree with but complaining about the batting of a number 9 who's average 37 is just silly.
I also quite like:
"Finn was dropped from a winning side for match figures of 2-117, yet Broad and Bresnan keep their places for match figures of 2-138 and 3-139 respectively. Onions and Tremlett must be scratching their heads."
This is a more common one but it's fairly simple, he wasn't dropped because of his figures, he was dropped because he looked out of his depth. He's had to do a lot of work on his action because of his knee clipping the wickets and overstepping the crease, this work isn't fully embedded yet so his pace was down, his length was poor and he was drifting onto the pads with an offside field. All of those suggest he needed more time working on his action, which is best to give him away from an ashes series.
Whilst that's true, Bresnan's and Broad's figures are not good enough and unless they improve in this match someone else deserves an opportunity. Broad is average of 56 a wicket this series, and whether he's been unlucky or not that is poor. In a 3 man seam attack I still don't think Bresnan offers enough penetration.
Going back to Cook v Australia in England this his 9th test match and as was pointed out he only averages 24+. In 2009 5 tests 222 runs HS of 95 Ave 24.66 and this year he is in 4th test scoring 156 with a HS of 62 averaging 26.
I suppose as someone of such experience he should be doing better. Remember how the press slagged Ian Bell was criticised for his output against the Aussies and he has done alright lately ain't he!!!!
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I don't mind the slow pace at the moment, it's really important we build a big first innings score.
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Kiss of death, Root fails again. Opening partnership fails again.
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With the exception of that 180, Root is really struggling as an opener. I think maybe he's been promoted too soon.
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I've had it with Root opening. There is no way you can justify him still batting at the top of the order. He should be in at 6.
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The problem with moving Root out of the opening spots is who do you put there in his place?
Compton did ok but has just as many problems as Root and there's no one else with international experience at the top of the order. It's a shame that this wasn't looked at more thoughtfully whilst Strauss was around.
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I'd give Carberry a go, while Root is getting used to International cricket.
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With the exception of that 180, Root is really struggling as an opener. I think maybe he's been promoted too soon.
Perhaps, or maybe we just have to be patient with him. It's been a pretty quick rise for him and he's still learning the trade of test match opening bat. On the other hand, there's the worry of knocking his confidence if he keeps getting out cheaply.
That said, if we see it through to lunch losing just one wicket in the first session of a test has to be seen as a good start.
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I'd give Carberry a go, while Root is getting used to International cricket.
Dont think they will drop Root - they will persevere with him and take him to Australia.
I do not believe that they will give another opportunity to Carberry being a left hander would go against him with the liking for a left and right handed opening partnership. Also he will be 33 in a few weeks bit late to resurrect a test career......just dont see it!!!! Bit of a difference in smashing balls to all parts in T20's than facing pressure of Ashes cricket!!!
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I'm not suggesting dropping Root, I rate him very highly but I think he should be lower down the order at the moment.
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Decent session, but we need to press on in the next one. We don't want to be in the position that if we lose a wicket we've gone nowhere in terms of runs.
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I'm not suggesting dropping Root, I rate him very highly but I think he should be lower down the order at the moment.
The counter to that is that he needs to learn to bat against the new ball in a test match environment, he opens fine at county level and looked good in the middle order so the talent is there, he's just needs to get used to a silly higher pressure environment.
to keep things tidy:
Decent session, but we need to press on in the next one. We don't want to be in the position that if we lose a wicket we've gone nowhere in terms of runs.
This is the biggest concern with Cook's form, when he's not scoring freely he turtles up and our run rate at the top becomes dire, he's currently sitting on a strike rate of just 25% which is far too low, personally I think any decent batsman in test cricket should be looking at 50% as a minimum, as the captain it's even more important that he sets the tempo a little higher. I think this is another reason that he and Root are struggling to settle in as Root has the same problem and they build pressure on each other. I also think this is leading on to the issues Trott is having as he is coming in and trying to accelerate the scoring which isn't really his game either. A confident century from Cook will do wonders for our top 4 in my opinion.
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We're picking the rate up well now, but Cook and Trott have starts and need to go on.
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shitty wicket to lose, Trott was looking really good as well.
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At least KP is facing a ball that's 40 overs old this time, that's not happened often enough in the series so far.
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I think generally this has been an excellent start from England - i hope Pietersen reins it in a little otherwise his likely to get to 30ish and get out. I'm not listening to TSM but watching pictures on Sky - pundits on here saying a score of 350 on here will be a great total on this wicket i think due to the moisture under a dry surface - we are well on the way to achieving that. Shame to lose Trott as he was going so well...
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Someone mentioned earlier, scores over 400 are very rare here so anything approaching that is an excellent batting performance. I also agree that this has been a good, if slightly slow, start to the test. KP really wants to dominate them here, I like seeing him aggressive though so I'm happy with it so far, I retain the right to be frustrated if he doesn't make a big score though.
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I think generally this has been an excellent start from England - i hope Pietersen reins it in a little otherwise his likely to get to 30ish and get out. I'm not listening to TSM but watching pictures on Sky - pundits on here saying a score of 350 on here will be a great total on this wicket i think due to the moisture under a dry surface - we are well on the way to achieving that. Shame to lose Trott as he was going so well...
I ought to be on friggin telly!!!! - Brilliant batsman but such a tosser!!!!
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Well I suppose our batsmen are failing in a different way at least.
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Really poor again from the batsmen. This pitch has done nowhere near what people, including myself thought. I seriously doubt we'll get 400 for the rest of this or the series in Australia.
Gooch's head must be on the chopping block.
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I actually can't remember the last good, collective innings our batsmen have put together.
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Lyon, a really shit spinner now has 3 wickets on a pitch that is not spinning, and England are inexplicably 5 wickets down. This is beyond a joke. These batsmen obviously think they are bulletproof in terms of selection, otherwise they wouldn't continually play so pathetically.
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Top order fails again, how many times before someone is dropped? If no other reason than they need see their places are not guaranteed. It's not good enough at all, and once again it's up to the middle and lower order to dig us out of a hole. Our batsmen get starts and then get out, it's very poor.
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I also wonder what our record is like since Graham Gooch became our full time batting coach? Not great I imagine.
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We're also letting Australia bowl at us too much, if you don't rotate the strike and score runs it's so easy to build pressure and when you lose a wicket you've gone nowhere.
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This is like watching Boycott and Tavarae at their finest. The last ten overs have yielded six runs!
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Like I said we've got completely stuck and now Prior is gone.
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It's time for this batting line up to be changed.
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What a load of crap. We have been awful and our scoring rate is the worst i've known in the modern period. Bairstow hasn't scored a run since about half four, the guy on the scoreboard will fall asleep at this rate.
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Short of a miracle we've failed to get 400 again when we've elected to bat first, and it's not good enough.
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You have to score runs England.
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Our batting is beyond embarrassing now
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We have retained the Ashes but have played some very average cricket. The prwssure is off and we still can't bat well.
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Bairstow is gone, and he should be gone from the team now. This is yet another truly pathetic display from our 'batsmen'.
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I've got to say, that innings from Bairstow is among the very worst I've ever seen an international batsman produce. I'm sorry Chris Jameson, but your boy is patently not up to it.
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Our batsmen with the exception of Bell, who other than today has been consistently good, have been utterly pathetic this series. We've been hammered by Australia at Old Trafford, but we saved by the rain and we're currently being hammered here. It's predominantly down to our batsmen failing time and time again. It must be looked at now, it's happened far too frequently.
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Broad gone as well.
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We are extremely lucky this very average Australia side didn't turn up for the first two Tests.
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I'm actually angry, ridiculously so considering this is only sport at our batting.
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We haven't made 400 in a single innings and we've batted first 3 times. Australia have batted first once and got 500+ declared. Considering the mockery this Australian batting line up gets, it does raise some questions. This team in the batting and bowling needs freshening up now, there are far too many players who are too comfortable in their position. I understand there needs to be stability, but it can't excuse consistent failure.
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Has anybody used Hawkeye (http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/engine/match/566935.html) on espncricinfo?
Great to use with the radio commentary on.
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Negativity seems to have filtered down from the coach to the captain to the team. We look a poor side and a shadow of the team we were two years ago. It's up to the bowlers to save us again.
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VM on TMS pointed out that the Aussies have effectively won the last 6 days of cricket, and it would be hard to argue with him.
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To be fair, if Australia have anything about them they'll win this match comfortably
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VM on TMS pointed out that the Aussies have effectively won the last 6 days of cricket, and it would be hard to argue with him.
Yep 100% they have, but our batting issues go much further than that. If Australia had been remotely reasonable in first two Tests, we would be really struggling.
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Anderson puts our awful batsmen to shame.
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Another 70 runs and its a par score on this wicket. Anything over 300 and you are in business up at Durham.
The batting however, is a complete shambles. Root should not be opening, Prior is massivlyl out of form, Bairstow has put in one of the poorest displays I have ever seen and should be nowhere near the side. Broad has failed with the ball all summer.
Taylor, Compton, Tremlett et al must be wondering what they have to do, because this side needs a serious wake up call, as it looks utter garbage.
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It all comes back to our scoring rate, if your top order are going at 2-2.5 an over you do nothing to discourage the bowlers and captain to continue an attacking line, eventually any international bowler, with no batting pressure on him, will get one right and get you. The best sides always have someone attacking and driving the score along, we don't seem to have that in the slightest, so the score meanders along at a rate far below what we should be after.
Today we've faced enough balls to have 300-350 on the board, if we were 'for 9' then it would be about par and we'd have something to bowl at. It's been my main concern ever since cook took over, he's a very defensive player and is an even more defensive captain and it's making us look a worse sie than we are.
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I don't think 300 is anywhere near par on this. Id want 400 minimum
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I don't think 300 is anywhere near par on this. Id want 400 minimum
Nobody has scored 400 on this wicket all summer, I don't think. Yorkshire got the highest with 350.
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It all comes back to our scoring rate, if your top order are going at 2-2.5 an over you do nothing to discourage the bowlers and captain to continue an attacking line, eventually any international bowler, with no batting pressure on him, will get one right and get you. The best sides always have someone attacking and driving the score along, we don't seem to have that in the slightest, so the score meanders along at a rate far below what we should be after.
Today we've faced enough balls to have 300-350 on the board, if we were 'for 9' then it would be about par and we'd have something to bowl at. It's been my main concern ever since cook took over, he's a very defensive player and is an even more defensive captain and it's making us look a worse sie than we are.
It's not just Cook, it comes from Flower as well. There is negativity flowing through our team in every respect. It's not solely down to scoring rate, although that is a major issue. I just think our players are far too secure in their roles. It's good having security, but too much breeds complacency. We've predominantly retained the Ashes through the Aussies being poor in the first two Tests, we haven't been good at all.
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I don't think 300 is anywhere near par on this. Id want 400 minimum
Nobody has scored 400 on this wicket all summer, I don't think. Yorkshire got the highest with 350.
Maybe, but our batting issues are absolutely chronic and have been for a while.
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I don't think 300 is anywhere near par on this. Id want 400 minimum
Nobody has scored 400 on this wicket all summer, I don't think. Yorkshire got the highest with 350.
Stats are stats. From what I've seen of todays pitch, where there's been no spin, no swing and only the rare ball has seemed, 400 would be an absolute minimum
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"Gifting wickets to a non spinning off spinner bowling around the wicket" is GB's verdict.
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There are massive question marks over Gooch as well, we've been rubbish since he became full time batting coach.
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OK Aussies have not batted yet so judge this score tomorrow please.
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OK Aussies have not batted yet so judge this score tomorrow please.
It's irrelevant, our bowlers might save us they have before. It doesn't change the fact our batsmen have consistently failed, we've batted first 3 times and failed to 400 every time. Australia have batted first once and got 500+ declared.
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You don't get to 100-1 on a bad pitch.
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No matter what the aussies get, our batting is indefensible
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No matter what the aussies get, our batting is indefensible
and has been for a while, if this was an isolated incident then you could go 'yeah ok every team has a bad day'. However we have been failing to put on first innings runs for a long while now and there are major issues with how we approach an innings, and players not being under pressure to perform.
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Our batsmen seem to have had a collective loss of confidence. Our success of recent times has been built on strength in depth, if the top order failed the middle order helped them out or at another time we would score enough early on to cover for a later collapse. No need to panic and throw the baby out with the bathwater but we might have to tweak things a little.
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Our batsmen seem to have had a collective loss of confidence. Our success of recent times has been built on strength in depth, if the top order failed the middle order helped them out or at another time we would score enough early on to cover for a later collapse. No need to panic and throw the baby out with the bathwater but we might have to tweak things a little.
I think Root being in the middle order would help him and the team, Carberry up the top to try and add impetus. I know he's 32, but he's been playing well and offers something different at the top.
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No matter what the aussies get, our batting is indefensible
and has been for a while, if this was an isolated incident then you could go 'yeah ok every team has a bad day'. However we have been failing to put on first innings runs for a long while now and there are major issues with how we approach an innings, and players not being under pressure to perform.
Would say that the batting struggles began in New Zealand really and we haven't been able to shake it off. His 178 at Lords aside, Root has struggled at the top of the order and would be better off down the order. If the powers that be don't fancy Compton or any of the other opening options, then maybe move Trott to opener and give someone else a chance at 3.
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It's longer than that, we've made 400+ 8 times in our last 46 innings.
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I do think a symptom of the negativity is selecting Bresnan, it's not that I think he's a bad player but I think they clearly pick him to bolster the batting which in turn means those above him don't take responsibility. He'd be a good 4th seamer, but he is no way the third best seamer in the country. He will pick up a couple of wickets here and there, but he'll never go through a team. Onions, Tremlett and Finn are all better bowlers than him and in a three man seam attack you need strike bowlers.
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Read Aggers' column on the BBC to identify how we have been sliding for a while now.
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Clearly we won't really know what a good score is on this track until the Aussies have batted on it as Durham has a history of 250 being very competitive but the batting is a real issue.
Take nothing away from Australia, their bowling attack is perfect for this type of pitch but we've batted poorly, i'm not sure whether Bairstow can hang on much longer without a score in the 2nd innings, Root just looks out of his depth right now and Cook is just hanging in there all the time, there's no fluency to our batting whatsoever. We've 4 or 5 players that look very low on confidence out of our top 7 and your only going to go one way with that type of make up. Clearly you wouldn't drop Cook, Trott or Prior so that leaves a move for Root down the order and leaving out Bairstow for an opener (unless he scores a ton in the 2nd innings that is).
Hanging back in the crease is always a sign of low confidence and it's rife though our batting line up right now, on pitches that we should look to get forward on against an attack that is a disciplined line and length attack. Back foot players or not, thats a recipe for disaster against this attack.
We deserved to win the first two Tests but we also deserved to lose the last one. We've got through this series retaining the Ashes already so they deserve credit for that but i'm afraid we'll get walloped in Australia unless we sort this out.
England hav'nt lost a Test in 12 Tests I heard, so we are very hard to beat. We're going to need to be again.
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I do think a symptom of the negativity is selecting Bresnan, it's not that I think he's a bad player but I think they clearly pick him to bolster the batting which in turn means those above him don't take responsibility. He'd be a good 4th seamer, but he is no way the third best seamer in the country. He will pick up a couple of wickets here and there, but he'll never go through a team. Onions, Tremlett and Finn are all better bowlers than him and in a three man seam attack you need strike bowlers.
Totally agree with that Paul. Being slightly negative has been our default setting for a while now though, even back to when we would employ Giles to bowl only on the leg side. Our declarations and enforcement of the follow on over the past few years are prime examples of our safety first approach.
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Clearly we won't really know what a good score is on this track until the Aussies have batted on it as Durham has a history of 250 being very competitive but the batting is a real issue.
Take nothing away from Australia, their bowling attack is perfect for this type of pitch but we've batted poorly, i'm not sure whether Bairstow can hang on much longer without a score in the 2nd innings, Root just looks out of his depth right now and Cook is just hanging in there all the time, there's no fluency to our batting whatsoever. We've 4 or 5 players that look very low on confidence out of our top 7 and your only going to go one way with that type of make up. Clearly you wouldn't drop Cook, Trott or Prior so that leaves a move for Root down the order and leaving out Bairstow for an opener (unless he scores a ton in the 2nd innings that is).
Hanging back in the crease is always a sign of low confidence and it's rife though our batting line up right now, on pitches that we should look to get forward on against an attack that is a disciplined line and length attack. Back foot players or not, thats a recipe for disaster against this attack.
We deserved to win the first two Tests but we also deserved to lose the last one. We've got through this series retaining the Ashes already so they deserve credit for that but i'm afraid we'll get walloped in Australia unless we sort this out.
England hav'nt lost a Test in 12 Tests I heard, so we are very hard to beat. We're going to need to be again.
I'd agree with most of that, I think the batting needs serious work.
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I do think a symptom of the negativity is selecting Bresnan, it's not that I think he's a bad player but I think they clearly pick him to bolster the batting which in turn means those above him don't take responsibility. He'd be a good 4th seamer, but he is no way the third best seamer in the country. He will pick up a couple of wickets here and there, but he'll never go through a team. Onions, Tremlett and Finn are all better bowlers than him and in a three man seam attack you need strike bowlers.
Totally agree with that Paul. Being slightly negative has been our default setting for a while now though, even back to when we would employ Giles to bowl only on the leg side. Our declarations and enforcement of the follow on over the past few years are prime examples of our safety first approach.
I still think that is very harsh, Bresnan has a better record with the ball than you're giving him credit for, against australia in particular he's only bowled one 1 bad innings, about a week ago. In 5 matches against australia he has 18 wickets at an average of just over 22.5, with an economy of 2.9. Those are world class figures for a bowler, as the 3rd seamer they're stunning. He's there on his bowling merit, yes he won't often rip through a team and get 5for or better, but he's the 3rd seamer/4th bowler in a team with, probably, 2 of the top 5 bowlers in the world, it's not his job to take a hatful of wickets every time.
I genuinely don't know why so many people have got such a problem with him being in the squad. I know other bowlers are pushing for a place but if they get ahead of him it needs to be because they're bowling exceptionally well.
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I am not a cricket person who knows everything (cant say coneisseur). I went to Edgbaston to watch Warwickshire play the Aussies in 75. Saw Gower get a 4 with his first shot in 78 v NZ, to square leg near to where I was. Watched Warwickshire with John Jameson and Dennis Amiss win the jon player 40 over league at Worcester circa 1981 after watching lots of home games. Root dont look an opener to me at the moment, Bairstow is not the answer at the moment either. I thought Onions would have played in this match at the expense of Bresnan or Broad, we would still have batting depth down to 9. It is surely up to the batsmen to set the scores and they did not do that again. Bell has shown balls, have the others?
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I do think a symptom of the negativity is selecting Bresnan, it's not that I think he's a bad player but I think they clearly pick him to bolster the batting which in turn means those above him don't take responsibility. He'd be a good 4th seamer, but he is no way the third best seamer in the country. He will pick up a couple of wickets here and there, but he'll never go through a team. Onions, Tremlett and Finn are all better bowlers than him and in a three man seam attack you need strike bowlers.
Totally agree with that Paul. Being slightly negative has been our default setting for a while now though, even back to when we would employ Giles to bowl only on the leg side. Our declarations and enforcement of the follow on over the past few years are prime examples of our safety first approach.
I still think that is very harsh, Bresnan has a better record with the ball than you're giving him credit for, against australia in particular he's only bowled one 1 bad innings, about a week ago. In 5 matches against australia he has 18 wickets at an average of just over 22.5, with an economy of 2.9. Those are world class figures for a bowler, as the 3rd seamer they're stunning. He's there on his bowling merit, yes he won't often rip through a team and get 5for or better, but he's the 3rd seamer/4th bowler in a team with, probably, 2 of the top 5 bowlers in the world, it's not his job to take a hatful of wickets every time.
I genuinely don't know why so many people have got such a problem with him being in the squad. I know other bowlers are pushing for a place but if they get ahead of him it needs to be because they're bowling exceptionally well.
Not really got a problem with Bresnan, more to do with the impression his selection gives. It has to be Bresnan or Broad in the side for me, with Finn or Tremlett taking up the other place.
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They won't drop Broad.
I think our bowling is fine I really do, Bresnan, Finn, Tremlett it's still a strong attack whichever way you go.
It's all about our batting for me and right now it's consistently been below par. We've just been fortunate in this and the NZ series that it hasn't caught up with us - yet!
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So who has to go from the batting, is it just Bairstow and move Root down there?
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Yes, I wouldn't think any other places are under threat.
Unless Bairstow gets a ton in the 2nd innings you'd be foolish to not seriously consider dropping Root down the order to 6 and bringing Compton back in.
I don't expect they'll do that though as once Flower makes his mind up about a player I think he'd be very stubborn about them.
Root is still certainly the long term opener for England, I just think it's too much too soon for him at the moment - this Australian attack has got on top of both him and Bairstow and their brains are scrambled.
They both need good runs in the 2nd innings to keep the positions as opener in Roots case and just starting XI in Bairstows.
The one plus point in their favour though is that fundamentally they're both, like Cook and Trott, back foot players which means they'd be better suited to the type of wickets they'll encounter in Brisbane then Durham.
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Tremlett needs to be back playing ready for the return trip in Aus. He will cause them all sorts of problems with his height down there.
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In the short term, it might be worth tinkering with Trott swapping places with Root.
Trott plays in near enough the same manner regardless of the game situation (and regardless of form). It's frustrating, but that caution can be well suited to opening the batting. And he's done it before for Warwickshire. Root can play with caution too but -as we've seen- he can get bogged down and then that builds pressure. Trott is by no means explosive, but he will look to score.
For Root, when he starts defensively, it seems to be harder for him to get motoring. Going in at three might give him more freedom.
Ideally you'd want at least one opener who looks to take it to the opposition, but the candidates out there aren't a vast improvement in that regard.
On the plus side, although the batters have been below par for most of the series so far, there does seem to be a degree of resillience there. That last morning at Old Trafford apart, they don't look like getting rolled for ridicuously low scores as per Australia's first innings at Lord's. Get the score up to 260+ this morning and that might still be a competitive score on this wicket.
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Well it's time for our team to turn up now, we've lost 6 consecutive days to Australia and we need to look at ourselves. That's the batsmen and the bowlers, we need to knock them over cheaply and then we need to actually put runs on the board.
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I still don't think that pitch is a bad pitch and 100-1 shows that clearly, it was shocking batting and it's up to bowlers to save us.
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Oh and a message to Cook, we have to attack them and not go on the defensive. That's how Australia got wickets and it's the only way we will.
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All out, we've put on no runs. Time for the bowlers to turn up, because we've been piss poor for 6 days in a row.
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Well we are out and about 150 short of a decent score on this wicket unless I've read it all wrong because it doesn't seem to be doing much.
Up to the bowlers again to get us into this.
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Pitch it up Broad.
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For fucks sake Broad, pitch it up.
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All the noise is that whilst there's no sideways movement the ball isn't coming on to the bat regularly, which is same I've heard about this ground before, the pace taken out of the delivery on the bounce seems very inconsistent.
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Broad bowling like a moron at the moment. Obviously taking his lead from our batsmen
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There you go! Warner gone!
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Broad bowling like a moron at the moment. Obviously taking his lead from our batsmen
Knew that would work
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Keep it pitched up Broad.
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Broady!! Rocky has gone.
Hghest score batting first this year at Durham is 267. However Yorkshire posted 339 in a fourh innings to win.
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Lovely delivery, far too good for him. was the perfect length as well, I hope Broad takes note.
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Keep it pitched up Broad.
Any advice for Broad PW? ;-)
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If Broad wants a short leg, give him one Cook.
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Khawaja gone! Broad is doing nicely now he's pitching it up. It's moving a lot more this morning.
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Good to see Broad getting some rewards, he's had a couple of spells like this in the series and got nothing for. Both wickets are good bowling rather than poor batting as well, which is fantastic to see.
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This looks a lot more like a day to bowl. We need Clarke early.
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What a silly waste of a review
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Poor review, that was never pitching in line.
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Australia playing the right way. Not just retreating into a bunker like many of our batsmen did
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But the LBW comes to the rescue!!!!!!
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Ok that is an absolute disgrace. He was given out, there is absolutely no logic for him to be not out
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That should be out, shocking shocking.
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He should be out LBW that's not good enough.
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What the hell are you talking about Holding? He was given out. It shouldn't matter one jot what he was out for, if the technology shows the ball was hitting the stumps, in any way then what evidence is there to overturn it.
There's 2 options here, the umpires are pathetic (highly plausible given their performance so far) or the rules are ridiculous
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I think there's a strong case for all the umpires in this series to be struck off. At no stage has their performance been acceptable
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Broad having zero luck
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Thank fu*k they don't have offside in cricket!
Yes, I know they do, but you know what I mean...
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DRS makes the baby Jesus cry.
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We're letting them score too quickly.
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Rogers is bound to get a big score after being inexplicably saved
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Clarke gone!
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Deserved that Broad.
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Broad has bowled the best by a mile here.
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More lives than a cat Rogers
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Bresnan not bowling well enough
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The other bowlers aren't backing Broad up at the moment.
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Anderson badly below par again
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We need to continue to take wickets regularly.
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We need to get rid of Rogers.
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This is poor England. Broad can't bowl continually so the other bowlers need to be much better than this
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We really need to stem the flow of runs, we can't afford any partnership to get away.
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As has been the case this series we have one bowler bowling well and the rest not great.
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The rogers decision comes down to the way the request was made and probably should be handled by a prompt from the 3rd umpire. When it went for review the on-field will have stated what they gave it out for, the TV umpire should, in that situation, ask if they want to consider the lbw if there is no edge. By not asking the implied 'umpire's call' has to be that he wouldn't have given it out for lbw, meaning that the benefit of the doubt was with the batsman.
This is another case where a dedicated TV umpire would be better suited than the current rotation process.
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I've seen nothing so far to suggest that Bresnan was a better selection than Onions.
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The rogers decision comes down to the way the request was made and probably should be handled by a prompt from the 3rd umpire. When it went for review the on-field will have stated what they gave it out for, the TV umpire should, in that situation, ask if they want to consider the lbw if there is no edge. By not asking the implied 'umpire's call' has to be that he wouldn't have given it out for lbw, meaning that the benefit of the doubt was with the batsman.
This is another case where a dedicated TV umpire would be better suited than the current rotation process.
I think the rule needs changing. Regardless of the original reason for being out, there should be absolute proof that giving a batsmen out was completely wrong in all aspects
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The rogers decision comes down to the way the request was made and probably should be handled by a prompt from the 3rd umpire. When it went for review the on-field will have stated what they gave it out for, the TV umpire should, in that situation, ask if they want to consider the lbw if there is no edge. By not asking the implied 'umpire's call' has to be that he wouldn't have given it out for lbw, meaning that the benefit of the doubt was with the batsman.
This is another case where a dedicated TV umpire would be better suited than the current rotation process.
I think the rule needs changing. Regardless of the original reason for being out, there should be absolute proof that giving a batsmen out was completely wrong in all aspects
I agree completely. Just explaining why it wasn't out, he was saved by a technicality.
PWA - surely Bresnan deserves a little more than 18 balls before you make a statement like that.
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The rogers decision comes down to the way the request was made and probably should be handled by a prompt from the 3rd umpire. When it went for review the on-field will have stated what they gave it out for, the TV umpire should, in that situation, ask if they want to consider the lbw if there is no edge. By not asking the implied 'umpire's call' has to be that he wouldn't have given it out for lbw, meaning that the benefit of the doubt was with the batsman.
This is another case where a dedicated TV umpire would be better suited than the current rotation process.
I think the rule needs changing. Regardless of the original reason for being out, there should be absolute proof that giving a batsmen out was completely wrong in all aspects
I agree completely. Just explaining why it wasn't out, he was saved by a technicality.
PWA - surely Bresnan deserves a little more than 18 balls before you make a statement like that.
4 more to be exact!
:D
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We're getting back into a reasonable position in this game, but how the batsmen must be ruing the horrendous way they played yesterday, particularly against the non spin of Lyon.
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Broad looks far too good for them here, bit more muck and he could be doing better as well.
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Bresnan bowling a much better line now
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unlucky for bres there, very nearly got him c&b, very very tough chance though.
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Can't be passing up those kind of chances.
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Having absolutely no luck at the moment. Rogers should definitely purchase his lottery ticket tonight
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Pitch is looking rather flat now.
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Think our luck is going to run out and we'll lose this one
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I think the position now confirms how badly our batsmen did, this game is very nearly gone.
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Australia have scored quicker and played better again. Short of something remarkable happening that's 7 days in a row they've won.
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Bresnan has been far too expensive as well.
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At last!
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Its been a very poor performance from England so far in this match, complimenting a poor showing at Old Trafford. Broad is the only player to have come out of it with any sort of credit.
Watson gone finally, but that partnership is likely to be match defining
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We need to get another quickly.
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To be honest since the first Test Jimmy hasn't really performed well enough.
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Well played Chris Rogers, now get out immediately please.
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what rogers has done is what we needed from Cook yesterday after KP got out, losing Cook quickly after caused the collapse, rogers has, a couple of times, stuck around after they lose a wicket so they can rebuild.
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Broad has been excellent, the rest of the bowling unit haven't backed him up.
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Bresnan is not offering the control he should. This is poor again.
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Probably end of the day, 7 consecutive days for Australia and it was harder to bat today. They've shown how poor our batting was.
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Opportunities were there with the ball seaming around early on. 5/6 down an hour or so after lunch wouldn't have been out of the question. Different game, then.
But conservative field placings, missed catches and Anderson and Bresnan not backing up Broad's early progress have done for England, I reckon. The only hope is that the pitch did look pretty flat there in the final session. But the way England have batted in this series, they'd need to be batting on a road to give themselves any chance of getting a healthy second innings total. And even then, you wouldn't bank on them.
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I don't really understand the complaints about DRS & Rogers' non dismissal.
The on field Umpire's decision was out caught and therefore by definition not-out LBW. Therefore, even though the review showed that he was not-out caught, he was still not-out LBW as far as the on field decision. Therefore, with the "stumps" element of the LBW review showing umpire's call, Rogers was rightly given not out.
The problem in this case lay with a bodged decision by the on-field umpire to give him out caught in the first place, not with the technology or DRS procedures.
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I don't really understand the complaints about DRS & Rogers' non dismissal.
The on field Umpire's decision was out caught and therefore by definition not-out LBW. Therefore, even though the review showed that he was not-out caught, he was still not-out LBW as far as the on field decision. Therefore, with the "stumps" element of the LBW review showing umpire's call, Rogers was rightly given not out.
The problem in this case lay with a bodged decision by the on-field umpire to give him out caught in the first place, not with the technology or DRS procedures.
I disagree. After being given out, there should be absolute proof that the overall decision of out was wrong. Batsmen should not be saved on technicalities.
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What a fucking catch.
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I don't really understand the complaints about DRS & Rogers' non dismissal.
The on field Umpire's decision was out caught and therefore by definition not-out LBW. Therefore, even though the review showed that he was not-out caught, he was still not-out LBW as far as the on field decision. Therefore, with the "stumps" element of the LBW review showing umpire's call, Rogers was rightly given not out.
The problem in this case lay with a bodged decision by the on-field umpire to give him out caught in the first place, not with the technology or DRS procedures.
I disagree. After being given out, there should be absolute proof that the overall decision of out was wrong. Batsmen should not be saved on technicalities.
I agree with UKR. DRS must be applied to the decision that was sent for review. You can not leave it open to everything else that may be there!
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Why? Out is out?
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A review is on request and specific.
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Why? Out is out?
Not now we've embraced technology. In this case the laws say it is down to umpires call, which was not-out for lbw.
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Decent morning so far. Ball hasn't done much so batsmen have again got no excuses.
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Why? Out is out?
Not now we've embraced technology. In this case the laws say it is down to umpires call, which was not-out for lbw.
Which is why, in this situation, the 3rd umpire should've prompted for thoughts regarding lbw before proceeding.
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This is really poor Broad
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I reckon DRS needs to be taken away from the players. Keep the technology and let the umpires use it, either the on-field umpires can ask for it if they aren't sure or the 3rd umpire can send a signal to the on-field umpires if they have mad a howler of a decision.
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That must be out
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We've done well in the end to limit the lead now we need to bat well. Another shocking decision by umpire initially.
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Right the bowlers have put us back in the game, batsmen it's time you did your fucking job.
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Well bowled Broad overall. A little unlucky not to have taken more wickets yesterday in all fairness. I'll forgive you the one poor over today
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Why? Out is out?
Not now we've embraced technology. In this case the laws say it is down to umpires call, which was not-out for lbw.
Which is why, in this situation, the 3rd umpire should've prompted for thoughts regarding lbw before proceeding.
He didn't think it was lbw, it was a marginal decision so it seems fair enough to me.
Anyway, all out now, This morning shows the beauty of Test Match Cricket; the Aussies came into the session well placed and we've clawed our way back into the game.
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I'm glad Broad got his 5for, he deserves that, was excellent yesterday and with a bit more luck he could have hd much better figures in the afternoon.
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We've done well in the end to limit the lead now we need to bat well. Another shocking decision by umpire initially.
Par for the course this series. If the ICC are unmovable on neutral umpires, then they'll have to start making some changes in their elite panel. These 4 have been an utter disgrace all summer
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It's really important the batsmen show positive intent, we need to get the scoreboard moving quickly.
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I reckon DRS needs to be taken away from the players. Keep the technology and let the umpires use it, either the on-field umpires can ask for it if they aren't sure or the 3rd umpire can send a signal to the on-field umpires if they have mad a howler of a decision.
I don't agree, it makes it all too clinical. The appeal has always been a part of the game, the current system is an extension for that with the fielding team having to ask for a review. Technology has a place but over reliance on it would, in my view, be to the detriment of the drama of the game.
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I reckon DRS needs to be taken away from the players. Keep the technology and let the umpires use it, either the on-field umpires can ask for it if they aren't sure or the 3rd umpire can send a signal to the on-field umpires if they have mad a howler of a decision.
I don't agree, it makes it all too clinical. The appeal has always been a part of the game, the current system is an extension for that with the fielding team having to ask for a review. Technology has a place but over reliance on it would, in my view, be to the detriment of the drama of the game.
I agree the DRS being with the players adds to the theatre.
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Just bat well please England.
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Good single, showing better intent.
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Thus far this is better from Cook, much more positive. We need to put the Australians under the pressure.
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I think Root needs to get more positive as well, at the moment he's getting out for low scores off a lot of balls and he's getting too bogged down.
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Root gone again, time to move him.
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I don't think you can be overly critical of root there, that was a belter of a delivery, it was just too good for him.
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In fairness that was an absolute jaffer.
The problem is that Root at the moment is just allowing the bowler to get into a rhythm. He's putting zero pressure back on to the opposition, before the trench he digs becomes inevitably too deep to get out of. He's seemed strangely low on confidence ever since his 180 at Lords
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In fairness that was an absolute jaffer.
The problem is that Root at the moment is just allowing the bowler to get into a rhythm. He's putting zero pressure back on to the opposition, before the trench he digs becomes inevitably too deep to get out of. He's seemed strangely low on confidence ever since his 180 at Lords
He also needs to learn to get forward more.
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Come on Cooky and Trotty lets invoke memories of Brisbane 2010 and get a massive partnership.
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One of these two must go on to make a big century
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I think we need a lead of round about 250, anything over that and we're big favourites.
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In fairness that was an absolute jaffer.
The problem is that Root at the moment is just allowing the bowler to get into a rhythm. He's putting zero pressure back on to the opposition, before the trench he digs becomes inevitably too deep to get out of. He's seemed strangely low on confidence ever since his 180 at Lords
He also needs to learn to get forward more.
Its strange really, as Headingly has always done a bit of a full length, so you'd expect Root to have had to play a lot of the front foot
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Yeah it's very odd, but it's a clear flaw in his technique.
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What's going to be really important is that Jimmy turns up in the second innings, he's been off colour since Trent Bridge and needs to step up.
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Quite ironic that it was DRS that started the aussie 'collapse'. Shows why it should be kept. Yes it misses a few but only the tiniest of nicks. Doesn't mean we should get rid of it. Keep it and try and improve it.
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This is a very odd tactic they've got to Trott
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Trott looking in very good nick here.
He did in the first innings though, and didn't take advantage of it.
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Horrific shot from Cook. Not good enough again
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Cook gone. What I don't understand is, they'll all have played here at county level, they should know that it's not a pitch to dig in and build on, you have to look to score because eventually the pitch will get you.
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In big danger of yet another pathetic batting display again. There's little in the pitch at the moment, so there's no excuse for the team not to get 300 plus easily
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Somebody has got to stand up and get a century now.
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Cook gone. What I don't understand is, they'll all have played here at county level, they should know that it's not a pitch to dig in and build on, you have to look to score because eventually the pitch will get you.
I don't think the pitch has done much at all, barring an hour yesterday when Broad was getting it to seam around
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This is all too fucking predictable. Utterly pathetic yet again
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Cook gone. What I don't understand is, they'll all have played here at county level, they should know that it's not a pitch to dig in and build on, you have to look to score because eventually the pitch will get you.
I don't think the pitch has done much at all, barring an hour yesterday when Broad was getting it to seam around
But that's just it. Its a flat wicket that is doing something every now andthen. Look at the Root delivery. It is seeming just enough for it to be difficult to get big totals on. Don't forget the Aussies didn't score 300 despite one person scoring a ton. Its a low scoring pitch and we've got to get runs ratherthan dig in and maybe be out for 150. If we can get to 300 that's going to be a tough get batting 4th on this wicket.
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Cook and Trott have both got out to horrendous shots. The pitch is totally blameless and Australia haven't bowled particularly well. It's not acceptable and there has to come a time where the batsmen face consequences for routine failure
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Cook gone. What I don't understand is, they'll all have played here at county level, they should know that it's not a pitch to dig in and build on, you have to look to score because eventually the pitch will get you.
I don't think the pitch has done much at all, barring an hour yesterday when Broad was getting it to seam around
But that's just it. Its a flat wicket that is doing something every now andthen. Look at the Root delivery. It is seeming just enough for it to be difficult to get big totals on. Don't forget the Aussies didn't score 300 despite one person scoring a ton. Its a low scoring pitch and we've got to get runs ratherthan dig in and maybe be out for 150. If we can get to 300 that's going to be a tough get batting 4th on this wicket.
We're not going to get to 300 continually throwing wickets away
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The pitch isn't blameless, the players struggling to get 'set', even rogers who got a century never looked settled. yes they're poor shots but they're on the back of indecision because they don't trust the pitch. It's not just the batsmen either, in the field everyone looks really cautious of the bounce as well. There has been 1 score over 300 on the pitch in the county championship, that's not a coincidence and fits entirely with what you can see here, this pitch is tough to bat on.
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The pitch isn't a road, but it certainly doesn't look like a 230 plays 270 wicket. I'd put it down to 2 decent attacks and 2 very poor batting line ups. England should really have made 350 in the first innings.
We need to somehow muster another 200 runs to give ourselves an outside chance. Highly unlikely given how woeful the batting has been all series.
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I'd like to see Flower publicly criticise some of our batsmen. They seem far too content in their little comfort zones and appear to face no consequence for continual failure
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But the stats do show that its not a 300 pitch and having seen both teams bat one it does suggest the stats are right.
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The pitch isn't a road, but it certainly doesn't look like a 230 plays 270 wicket. I'd put it down to 2 decent attacks and 2 very poor batting line ups. England should really have made 350 in the first innings.
We need to somehow muster another 200 runs to give ourselves an outside chance. Highly unlikely given how woeful the batting has been all series.
That's the point, it is a ~250 wicket if you look into the stats over the summer (and it's closer to 200 for 2nd innings).
All the commentators on both sky and tm have said it's a pitch you have to score quickly on because at some point you'll get ball with your name on it, Broad and Harris in particular have proven that true.
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The stat I'd like to see is the deviation in the amount of pace lost in the pitch. Every now and then 1 seems to not 'stick' as much and just gets to the batsman quicker than they expect.
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The pitch isn't a road, but it certainly doesn't look like a 230 plays 270 wicket. I'd put it down to 2 decent attacks and 2 very poor batting line ups. England should really have made 350 in the first innings.
We need to somehow muster another 200 runs to give ourselves an outside chance. Highly unlikely given how woeful the batting has been all series.
That's the point, it is a ~250 wicket if you look into the stats over the summer (and it's closer to 200 for 2nd innings).
All the commentators on both sky and tm have said it's a pitch you have to score quickly on because at some point you'll get ball with your name on it, Broad and Harris in particular have proven that true.
Thats a fair point, but county pitches are generally prepared with more life in them, either to suit the home county or to ensure a positive result as points for a draw are minimal and matches only last 4 days. They don't have to worry about the crowd as much as there's usually a couple of hundred there.
Test match pitches on the other hand are, most of the time more placid, to ensure as much play as possible as its a county's money spinner.
You obviously make a fair and valid point about the stats at Durham this year, but from what I saw of this pitch on day 1, 238 was by no means an acceptable score. The fact that Lyon took 4 wickets without the ball spinning alludes to that.
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But the stats do show that its not a 300 pitch and having seen both teams bat one it does suggest the stats are right.
I personally think that says more about the low quality of the batting line ups
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Australia showed it can't have been a bad pitch to bat on. They got to 205 for 4 before they collapsed, bought on by a couple of poor shots and a weak tail.
England got to 150 for 2 also and batting looked pretty easy at that point.
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The pitch isn't a road, but it certainly doesn't look like a 230 plays 270 wicket. I'd put it down to 2 decent attacks and 2 very poor batting line ups. England should really have made 350 in the first innings.
We need to somehow muster another 200 runs to give ourselves an outside chance. Highly unlikely given how woeful the batting has been all series.
That's the point, it is a ~250 wicket if you look into the stats over the summer (and it's closer to 200 for 2nd innings).
All the commentators on both sky and tm have said it's a pitch you have to score quickly on because at some point you'll get ball with your name on it, Broad and Harris in particular have proven that true.
Thats a fair point, but county pitches are generally prepared with more life in them, either to suit the home county or to ensure a positive result as points for a draw are minimal and matches only last 4 days. They don't have to worry about the crowd as much as there's usually a couple of hundred there.
Test match pitches on the other hand are, most of the time more placid, to ensure as much play as possible as its a county's money spinner.
You obviously make a fair and valid point about the stats at Durham this year, but from what I saw of this pitch on day 1, 238 was by no means an acceptable score. The fact that Lyon took 4 wickets without the ball spinning alludes to that.
So, to logically follow it on, its the pitch. Batsman are getting themselves out because they realise runs will be at a premium. Where you are right is questioning the batsmen's ability, on both sides, to get those runs.
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The pitch isn't a road, but it certainly doesn't look like a 230 plays 270 wicket. I'd put it down to 2 decent attacks and 2 very poor batting line ups. England should really have made 350 in the first innings.
We need to somehow muster another 200 runs to give ourselves an outside chance. Highly unlikely given how woeful the batting has been all series.
That's the point, it is a ~250 wicket if you look into the stats over the summer (and it's closer to 200 for 2nd innings).
All the commentators on both sky and tm have said it's a pitch you have to score quickly on because at some point you'll get ball with your name on it, Broad and Harris in particular have proven that true.
Thats a fair point, but county pitches are generally prepared with more life in them, either to suit the home county or to ensure a positive result as points for a draw are minimal and matches only last 4 days. They don't have to worry about the crowd as much as there's usually a couple of hundred there.
Test match pitches on the other hand are, most of the time more placid, to ensure as much play as possible as its a county's money spinner.
You obviously make a fair and valid point about the stats at Durham this year, but from what I saw of this pitch on day 1, 238 was by no means an acceptable score. The fact that Lyon took 4 wickets without the ball spinning alludes to that.
So, to logically follow it on, its the pitch. Batsman are getting themselves out because they realise runs will be at a premium. Where you are right is questioning the batsmen's ability, on both sides, to get those runs.
I'd say its more batsmen getting themselves out because of either poor form, poor technique or an unwillingness to work hard enough to play a proper test match innings. Trott looked in excellent form on day one, yet played a lazy half hearted shot to a nothing ball from Lyon.
Pietersen strangely played for spin when there was none, and Bairstow backed himself into such a corner that he played an awful sweep shot. Broad and Swann gave their wickets away.
I think South Africa would have got at least 350 on this pitch in the first innings, probably over 400
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Must get to tea losing no more wickets.
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But the stats do show that its not a 300 pitch and having seen both teams bat one it does suggest the stats are right.
I personally think that says more about the low quality of the batting line ups
England do not have a poor batting line up. A few are out of touch out but they've got players with very healthy test averages who haven't become bad players overnight. It's also a pitch that is doing a bit in overcast conditions.
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But the stats do show that its not a 300 pitch and having seen both teams bat one it does suggest the stats are right.
I personally think that says more about the low quality of the batting line ups
England do not have a poor batting line up. A few are out of touch out but they've got players with very healthy test averages who haven't become bad players overnight. It's also a pitch that is doing a bit in overcast conditions.
It's a bit more than overnight though Chris. I think Paul Winch gave us the stat that England have only scored over 400 8 times in the last 50 or so attempts. I was of course incorrect by saying were poor, but as a collective unit, ever since the India series at home in 2011 they haven't performed well enough.
We've won games mostly because the bowlers have generally been excellent, and there's been one batsman who has got us out of a precarious situation a number of times.
I don't know whether getting to No 1 went to a few of the players heads a little, but I wouldn't rule it out.
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Anyway, Bell and Pietersen are batting nicely here. I think whatever is in this pitch, it's very much with the new ball which makes Cook and Trotts shots all the more disappointing
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Anyway, Bell and Pietersen are batting nicely here. I think whatever is in this pitch, it's very much with the new ball which makes Cook and Trotts shots all the more disappointing
This backs up my opinion that it's all about the pace off the bounce, as the ball softens that pace will naturally go down, which reduces the chance of one spitting off the pitch, look at the number of wickets where players have been late through the shot, there's definitely a lot of unpredictable pace in the pitch. It's not massively affecting lateral movement and is only occasionally affecting the bounce.
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Anyway, Bell and Pietersen are batting nicely here. I think whatever is in this pitch, it's very much with the new ball which makes Cook and Trotts shots all the more disappointing
This backs up my opinion that it's all about the pace off the bounce, as the ball softens that pace will naturally go down, which reduces the chance of one spitting off the pitch, look at the number of wickets where players have been late through the shot, there's definitely a lot of unpredictable pace in the pitch. It's not massively affecting lateral movement and is only occasionally affecting the bounce.
Again a valid point, but it surely indicates how badly England played in the first innings from 150 for 2, having well and truly seen off the new ball, only to lose poor wickets against Lyon.
Second innings, surely Cook and Trott, knowing that batting will get easier didn't need to be so reckless against the new ball. Positive yes, but selective aggression would have been the order of the day. The Aussies were bowling more than enough poor balls at Trott's legs (a peculiar strategy) that he didn't need to play a hook shot he had no chance of controlling.
Pietersen and Bell have so far looked untroubled and have waited for Australia to bowl too straight and then picked them off.
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Trott's out of nick and, as always when that happens, isn't always getting the rub of the green either. Cook got the best ball of the innings a couple of times earlier in the series, but today's dismissal was gravely disappointing.
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As a slight aside, just checked the test rankings and India are somehow above us, despite losing the last two series a combined 6-1. How on earth do they work that out?
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Trott's out of nick and, as always when that happens, isn't always getting the rub of the green either. Cook got the best ball of the innings a couple of times earlier in the series, but today's dismissal was gravely disappointing.
I think Trott's looked in great touch this match, in both innings. Which makes both his dismissals all the more frustrating
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Trott's out of nick and, as always when that happens, isn't always getting the rub of the green either. Cook got the best ball of the innings a couple of times earlier in the series, but today's dismissal was gravely disappointing.
I think Trott's looked in great touch this match, in both innings. Which makes both his dismissals all the more frustrating
Trott's wicket is as clear a case of misjudging the pace as you'll ever see, kit was a poor decision to go after it but that was made a lot worse by him not getting through the shot.
Cook's was poor, but as the commentators on sky said, it was full and wide, you can usually score from those fairly safely if you're trying to put runs on the board, it was just he misjudged his choice of shot. I put that down to him not playing his natural game and trying to score when it was probably better to leave it well alone.
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That's just it though. Why go after it? It did come of the pitch quickly, but the angle of the bouncer meant it was never going to be easy to control in any case.
As i've said Australia were using the odd tactic of bowling on Trott's pads which is his strength, so the scoring opportunities were there for Trott and he's not made use of his good touch in this match.
Cook's I thought was wide, but not full enough to be playing a drive to. His feet went nowhere and he ended up wafting at the ball with the inevitable result of an edge
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but again, what you're not getting is why they've been tempted into those shots, both cook and trott were looking good and then played a shot which looks both poor and totally out of character. There are a number of reasons behind it, some form related but the pitch and bowling is also important.
Fair play to Bell, 50 and a decent rate, he's easily the best batsman in the squad on current form.
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but again, what you're not getting is why they've been tempted into those shots, both cook and trott were looking good and then played a shot which looks both poor and totally out of character. There are a number of reasons behind it, some form related but the pitch and bowling is also important.
Fair play to Bell, 50 and a decent rate, he's easily the best batsman in the squad on current form.
I understand where your coming from, but it's not that I ain't getting your assertion of why they've been tempted into those shots, it's that I disagree with it.
Cook and Trott are intelligent enough to understand that batting would get easier after 15-20 overs as Bell and Pietersen have clearly shown to be the case. There's no need to go after the ball when the odds weren't in their favour. It's not as if there's a lack of time left in the match and Australia were feeding them enough poor balls as it was.
I get your point about the pitch, but in my view that should make the batsmen more selective against the new ball, not less.
Pietersen gone to a really tame shot. That's poor really, the game was drfiting away from Australia and batting was looking pretty easy. The doors open for them again now. I don't hold much hope for a decent innings from Bairstow, but obviously glad to be proven wrong
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Bell really is playing well. Its looked a different game for him all series.
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from here, another 75 is minimum to get a lead over 200, if we can get the lead up over 250 then we're favourites. So right now I'd say it's very even. Interesting situation given how many people gave Australia the first 2 days.
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Oh fuck off Dar, with your silly light meter.
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Oh just fuck off umpires. Just fuck off.
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That's too dark? Really?
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I can see us losing a wicket here. That could have seriously affected their rhythm and concentration. Poor from the umpires
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Bodyline in the 'bad light' from Harris here.
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No need to take too many risks here England. Doesn't matter about the run rate for the last half hour, just don't lose a wicket
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Fuck Fuck Fuck. Please don't send a nightwatchman in
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Of course they do. If they went 8 down with an hour to go they'd send Jimmy Anderson in to shore things up.
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Every time we look like getting a stranglehold, we lose a wicket. Bairstow did ok, but not quite enough to justify retaining his place for the last test in my opinion
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Can't afford to collapse again here. We need another 100 runs to be in a strong position
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Can't afford to collapse again here. We need another 100 runs to be in a strong position
Another 100 should be the target. Get that and I think the game is ours.
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Can't afford to collapse again here. We need another 100 runs to be in a strong position
Another 100 should be the target. Get that and I think the game is ours.
Unless the rain comes.
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I have no problem with Bresnan coming on here, and I've have considered it even if it wasn't late in the day. we're just about at the minimum you'd want to think you stand a chance here. "Par" is probably another 50. If Bresnan and Bell can see off the majority of those we can let Prior, Broad and Swann come out swinging and try to add some big late runs. If they'd put Jimmy in I'd have a bigger issue with it but Bresnan can rotate the strike and build a partnership.
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Of course they do. If they went 8 down with an hour to go they'd send Jimmy Anderson in to shore things up.
The nightwatchman has always struck me as daft. It sends the wrong message to the opposition, that we're worried about losing wickets. It also hurts the following morning if the nightwatchman stays in and slows the run rate down.
My viewpoint has always been that the recognised batsman should be mentally strong enough to go and see out the last 10 minutes. You never see nightwatchmen for the openers when there's only 4 or 5 overs to bat
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Blimey that was a heart in mouth moment. I think Bell needs to put thoughts of his ton to the back of his mind. The match situation is more important
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Yep, well played Bell. Lovely hundred, full of class and authority. Now make it a big one.
That's the only minor criticism of Bell this series. Out twice just after the hundred
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Of course they do. If they went 8 down with an hour to go they'd send Jimmy Anderson in to shore things up.
The nightwatchman has always struck me as daft. It sends the wrong message to the opposition, that we're worried about losing wickets. It also hurts the following morning if the nightwatchman stays in and slows the run rate down.
My viewpoint has always been that the recognised batsman should be mentally strong enough to go and see out the last 10 minutes. You never see nightwatchmen for the openers when there's only 4 or 5 overs to bat
Too right. I always liked the three particulars of Steve Waugh's captaincy: 1) don't enforce the follow-on - bat them into submission; 2) no nightwatchmen for the reasons you mention; 3) have one of the best teams in history. Seems to work.
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Wonderful knock today from Bell. He's made batting look remarkably easy all series when all others have toiled.
He's come in nearly every time after a top order failure and has delivered almost at will.
Just hope he goes on to make it at least a 150 tomorrow, which would put us in a strong position.
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Pietersen must be kicking himself the way he got out. He'd done all the hard work when the ball was harder, then got out to another innocuous one from Lyon.
Its almost as if Pietersen has overrated Lyon in both innings and played for spin when there was none
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Much better today. First of all to wrap up the Aussie tail in decent time, and then to overcome a patchy start second time around. Impeccable from Bell.
Compare and contrast with Buck's streaky ton, when the jammy so and so could have been out 7/8 times.
England's day, for the first time in a while. Genuinely not sure what a good score would be from this point onwards. Even 220 might be enough. It's runs on the board, and the Aussies have had a tendancy to fold in these kind of situations recently.
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The way Bell has played in this series shows that on top form he's as good as any batsman in world cricket. He is such a delight to watch as he makes it look so easy at times.
As for the game, I think a lead of 250 would put us as slight favourites, especially with the expected cloud cover over the next couple of days. Hopefully we can go on to a lead of at least 300 though, with Bell turning it into a daddy hundred and Prior finally contributing with the bat.
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Of course they do. If they went 8 down with an hour to go they'd send Jimmy Anderson in to shore things up.
The nightwatchman has always struck me as daft. It sends the wrong message to the opposition, that we're worried about losing wickets. It also hurts the following morning if the nightwatchman stays in and slows the run rate down.
My viewpoint has always been that the recognised batsman should be mentally strong enough to go and see out the last 10 minutes. You never see nightwatchmen for the openers when there's only 4 or 5 overs to bat
Bresnan isn't your typical night watchman though, he isn't far off being an all-rounder, he can score quickly enough.
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I'm happy enough for Bres to go in when he did, he's meant to be there to bat. Overall our day thanks to Bell, who played a wonderful innings. Worryingly the top 3 failed once again, and it's time for a change. I reckon we need to set 250-300 and Jimmy to turn up.
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Bell's innings was so good. Not only is he our easiest-on-the-eye batsman, he's now the best digger-out-of-holes as well.
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Bell's innings was so good. Not only is he our easiest-on-the-eye batsman, he's now the best digger-out-of-holes as well.
Well essentially he stands alone at the moment, although KP and Bairstow made valuable contributions
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We've done well in the end to limit the lead now we need to bat well. Another shocking decision by umpire initially.
Par for the course this series. If the ICC are unmovable on neutral umpires, then they'll have to start making some changes in their elite panel. These 4 have been an utter disgrace all summer
I disagree. The neutral umpires appointment is in line with other international sports. I hope no one thinks that best Umpires only come from England as that is not the case. TV and video replays are making umpires look a little short but that is no different from football referees week in week out. Main thing is that there is NO bias in decision making right or wrong.
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We've done well in the end to limit the lead now we need to bat well. Another shocking decision by umpire initially.
Par for the course this series. If the ICC are unmovable on neutral umpires, then they'll have to start making some changes in their elite panel. These 4 have been an utter disgrace all summer
I disagree. The neutral umpires appointment is in line with other international sports. I hope no one thinks that best Umpires only come from England as that is not the case. TV and video replays are making umpires look a little short but that is no different from football referees week in week out. Main thing is that there is NO bias in decision making right or wrong.
Aleem Dar is normally excellent, but other than that the best are from England and Australia. You'd hope they'd be professional enough not to be biased. All elite umpires should be available for all series.
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Oh and KP and Bairstow shouldn't be criticised today, they contributed to vital partnerships and have helped give us a chance.
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Aleem Dar is normally excellent, but other than that the best are from England and Australia. You'd hope they'd be professional enough not to be biased. All elite umpires should be available for all series.
What do you base that on Paul? The only way to judge is to watch lot of test cricket not involving England and Australia IMO.
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I watch a fair bit of cricket in NZ and the umpiring tends to be very good from Steve Davies. I think Aleem Dar other than this series is normally probably the best, Erasmus is ok but Tony Hill and Dharmesena aren't particularly good. Hill in particular has been desperately poor throughout the series.
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Additionally Paul Reiffel looks very promising and I think Oxenford and Illingworth are very good.
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In that ICC need to step up selection process for Elite panel.
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8 of the 12 elite panel umpires are from England and Australia. As it stands they can only use the other 4. Dar is way off his usual decent form, so I'd possibly keep him. However the other 3 just look abysmal so they all need replacing.
It's a shame, because the poor umpiring and the faulty/poor use of technology had blotted this series.
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We've done well in the end to limit the lead now we need to bat well. Another shocking decision by umpire initially.
Par for the course this series. If the ICC are unmovable on neutral umpires, then they'll have to start making some changes in their elite panel. These 4 have been an utter disgrace all summer
I disagree. The neutral umpires appointment is in line with other international sports. I hope no one thinks that best Umpires only come from England as that is not the case. TV and video replays are making umpires look a little short but that is no different from football referees week in week out. Main thing is that there is NO bias in decision making right or wrong.
I agree, all this series has shown is a need for much clearer guidelines about what to do, the one earlier to the series where the tv umpire overturned a decision despite no evidence on hotspot was particularly harsh.
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In that case the "neutral umpire' requirement is a problem. As far as I know England and Australia are the only countries that play 5 test series. This means busy time for the "four" and no chance of "rest" due to poor form. I firmly believe in neutral officials but ICC do need to do something about this in order to make it workable. More training that will lead to a bigger panel with better representation from all countries is required.
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And by the way well done Ian Bell. The man is up there now with the elite.
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In that ICC need to step up selection process for Elite panel.
I agree with that, the elite panel needs a wider spread if they're going to be neutral.
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And by the way well done Ian Bell. The man is up there now with the elite.
Him along with a couple of excellent bowling displays has retained the Ashes. Bell has been excellent and should be lorded for it.
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I'm happy enough for Bres to go in when he did, he's meant to be there to bat. Overall our day thanks to Bell, who played a wonderful innings. Worryingly the top 3 failed once again, and it's time for a change. I reckon we need to set 250-300 and Jimmy to turn up.
Agree, but aside from the obvious re-selection of Compton, what other options are out there?
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Ian Bell....Ian fucking Bell....brilliant....
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Well played Bell. It will be interesting how how we go about our batting today. Will they try and play sensibly for a bit or come out swinging from the off?
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Bresnan has a crucial role to play here. If he can hang around and see off the first 10 or so overs, it sets it up nicely for Prior, Broad and Swann to have a dart as the ball gets older. Doesn't particularly need to get a big score, but batting time and seeing off the new ball would be a massive contribution.
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Bresnan has a crucial role to play here. If he can hang around and see off the first 10 or so overs, it sets it up nicely for Prior, Broad and Swann to have a dart as the ball gets older. Doesn't particularly need to get a big score, but batting time and seeing off the new ball would be a massive contribution.
I agree, if he can do that and get the lead up to 230-240 with Bell he'll have vindicated the decision to send him in and then the rest can come out and swing freely and push us to 300+.
I firmly believe a lead of 250 is advantage England, 300 and I think the game is ours. This mornings session will be very important.
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I'm happy enough for Bres to go in when he did, he's meant to be there to bat. Overall our day thanks to Bell, who played a wonderful innings. Worryingly the top 3 failed once again, and it's time for a change. I reckon we need to set 250-300 and Jimmy to turn up.
Agree, but aside from the obvious re-selection of Compton, what other options are out there?
I think that would do a lot of good. Compton has a few years' experience against the new ball, whereas Root looks better down the order. Bairstow clearly isn't ready and needs to go back to county cricket to score some runs and learn his trade.
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We're going to win this today
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I'm happy enough for Bres to go in when he did, he's meant to be there to bat. Overall our day thanks to Bell, who played a wonderful innings. Worryingly the top 3 failed once again, and it's time for a change. I reckon we need to set 250-300 and Jimmy to turn up.
Agree, but aside from the obvious re-selection of Compton, what other options are out there?
I think that would do a lot of good. Compton has a few years' experience against the new ball, whereas Root looks better down the order. Bairstow clearly isn't ready and needs to go back to county cricket to score some runs and learn his trade.
As someone in the commentary mentioned yesterday (Atherton I think) the biggest issue is that players like Root and Bairstow have got into the squad based on the way they play at club level but then try to change their game for tests. Compton was doing the same so I'm not sure if he's the right person. The issue is Root has had his big breakthrough score at the top of the order, and then gone back to playing the same way as he was before that innings. It's frustrating because he has everything to make it as a test match opener but he just doesn't seem to have the belief. Bairstow has the same issue but the difference is Bairstow hasn't really had a standout innings where he's shown his class at this level like Root did at Lords. Which is why Root is safe in the side but Bairstow is clinging to his place.
The frustrating thing with Bairstow is that he's had 5-6 good starts but he's tthrown them all away. Yesterday was a great example, he came in with a great positive attitude, hit a few really nice shots and looked well capable of a big stand with Bell and then he gave his wicket away. The 28 he got were very important, and were part of a big partnership which put the game in our control (in my opinion) but for him personally he'll be massively disappointed he didn't get at least another 20-30 and really make a statement that he can come in and score important runs when we need them.
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My favourite thing about Ian Bell is how easy on the eye his shots are. He should be the poster child of English cricket, he just has such immaculate technique when he's on form. The 4 just is a great example, looks simple and clean, I can't think of a batsman who is better to watch on form.
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Huge wicket for the Australians that. They could win today if they can rattle through the tail.
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Why can we never just get to a comfortable position? Every time I begin to think we are getting ahead....
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That just rolled along the floor. Blimey, can see us being bowled out cheaply now
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Yet another failure from Prior
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Bugger, we really needed that partnership to see off the new ball - oh well, same plan I reckon, try to score quickly from here, another 50 on the board is still a big lead.
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That's a big blow, but well played Bell. We need Prior, Bresnan and Broad to turn up here.
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Fucks sake Prior fails again, other than Bell our batting unit has been woeful this summer.
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We cannot afford to bowl badly with the new ball
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Thank goodness Broad is a lefty.
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I feel for Prior there, 1st up and that got big on him, and cut back. You don't get bowled off of your elbow too often.
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We need the tail to put on 50 runs here.
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Harris and Broad have looked a class above the other seamers in this match
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The pitch is misbehaving now, we've possibly got enough already, get a lead of 250+ and we'll win easily.
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Harris and Broad have looked a class above the other seamers in this match
They're the only seamers playing (well Watson is a a medium pace part time seamer but he's not an test class bowler). All the other quicks are swing bowlers. The conditions are perfect for seam bowling (with the seam vertical in flight) but there is very little with an angled seam for the swing bowlers. There is a bit of turn now though so Swann should come into more in the reply. Bres and Jimmy might need to mix it up by scrambling the seam a little and try to benefit from the dubious bounce.
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Harris has bowled so so well this morning.
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..............and suddenly we're only 7 away from the 250............
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This is an excellent counter by Broad.
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Straw poll is 250 enough? With Harris bowling this well we won't get any more now.
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Jinxed him!
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At least Broad tried to play in the correct way
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This is an excellent counter by Broad.
.....bugger, as soon as I posted that Broad's out, I'll shut up
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Straw poll is 250 enough? With Harris bowling this well we won't get any more now.
Puts us as slight favourites in my opinion. We'd have to pick up wickets with the new ball as the pitch is easy to bat on without it
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This is an excellent counter by Broad.
.....bugger, as soon as I posted that Broad's out, I'll shut up
It was correct though, Broad did exactly what we need, just a shame he didn't get a few more runs before the pitch got him.
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250 is enough for Swann. Anything more a bonus.
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A lead of 300 is looking unlikely now. Bresnan could make a name for himself today.
With the bat I mean.
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This is an excellent counter by Broad.
.....bugger, as soon as I posted that Broad's out, I'll shut up
It was correct though, Broad did exactly what we need, just a shame he didn't get a few more runs before the pitch got him.
Don't think that was the pitch, just an excellent bouncer at a lower order player
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Straw poll is 250 enough? With Harris bowling this well we won't get any more now.
250 is advantage England as far as I'm concerned, with cloud cover, uneven bounce and a fair bit of turn, this pitch is going to be horrific to bat on if Broad and Swann can get into a groove.
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Its bloody exciting cricket this morning, no matter what
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I take it all back if we can get through this Harris over there's runs aplenty from the other end.
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Every run is absolutely crucial
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Very good from Bresnan here.
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Whatever happens now Bresnan has fully vindicated his promotion ahead of Prior in the order. I've said it before, if Prior could move to 6 Bresnan is a 7, he's got the ability to dig in when needed but has the power and range to score quick runs when needed as well.
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The thing that does worry me is that the scores have gone up in each innings. I suppose that's probably more to do with how poorly England batted on day one though. From 150 for 2 they should really have got 350. It would be game over then
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Bresnan playing a gem of an innings here
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I'm starting to wonder if Bresnan didn't come in as a nightwatchman but is in fact above Prior on merit.
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I'm worried that Siddle's cheeks are shrinking....
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I'm starting to wonder if Bresnan didn't come in as a nightwatchman but is in fact above Prior on merit.
I said that yesterday. I'd trust Bresnan more agianst the new ball and I'm convinced that was in their thinking. If it had been Jimmy then it was a nightwatchman, I don't think it's fair on Bres to call him one.
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I'm starting to wonder if Bresnan didn't come in as a nightwatchman but is in fact above Prior on merit.
He's certainly looked the better batsman in this series! I'd have expected Prior to have contributed at least once in 4 matches, but he's had an awful series with the bat, and hasn't looked too sharp with the gloves either. He's a class act though and will surely come back to form in Australia where the quicker pitches should suit him
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Come on Bres', get your 50 now.
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Well that hour had pretty much everything a cricket lover could wish for. Some brilliant new ball bowling from Harris, and some crunching shots in a counter attack. That's why this is the best sport in the world
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Bresnan has done very well with the bat, but he needs to back it up with his bowling.
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C'mon, a nice 300 lead would be great.
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Bollocks
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Well played Bres.
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Disappointing way to go but a very good knock nevertheless.
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Yeah very important cameo given the match situation
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Yeah very important cameo given the match situation
Word Up.
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Brilliant from the lower order.
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All over, 298 got to be happy with that. The bowlers need to turn up now.
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Excellent. So forget my earlier straw pol...l 250? Pffft. 298 run lead. Go get it Aus.
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Great morning's cricket. Aus have got to go for it now, a tall order with a changing pitch.
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New ball is vital. Need to pick up 2 or 3 wickets in first 20 overs
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Anderson surely has to bowl well at some stage? He's been way off form the last 3 innings he's bowled
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That, we cannot afford
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Our reviewing has really gone off the boil.
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Ball done nothing so far. Hopefully that's the effect of the heavy roller, otherwise we could be in a spot of bother. This is a very flat pitch after 20 overs or so
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Come on we need early wickets here.
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This ploy of bowling badly is not working. Completely wasting the new ball
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Anderson is poor again at the moment.
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Bollocks we really could do with some early wickets here.
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Scrap poor, this is horrendous. Swann on now before the seamers concede too many runs
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This is a relaitvely small target and at the moment the bowling is far far too wayward.
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This is not good enough.
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Need to get Anderson out of the attack. Bowling abysmally at the moment
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Anderson needs to go from the attack at the moment, we can't afford to lose all these runs.
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This is slipping away from us at a rate of knots. Anderson really needs to get his act together
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Yep it is very much so, our bowling attack is not doing it's job. Jimmy should be rested after this game if he doesn't improve dramatically.
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Bugger it, put Swann on.
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Completely unacceptable bowling so far. Anyone with an iota of sense will tell you to pitch the ball up on this pitch. We've completely wasted the new ball so far. Need a miracle from Swann
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This game is slipping very quickly. Compare this start to ours, embarrassing.
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Our inability to stop the Aussies scoring has been a problem throughout this series. How on earth do we have a team with some many players out of form?
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We've pretty much gifted them about 50 of their runs. This pitch is only going to get flatter the more overs we bowl.
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We look shot at the moment.
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Oh dear this isn't looking good, we need a collapse here.
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Our team with the exception of Bell and possibly Swann is shockingly out of form and consistency. We have players pulling off the odd remarkable display, but then they are rubbish for the next three of four innings.
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Our bowlers should get the hairdryer treatment here, it's been absolutely diabolical.
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I don't trust Cook to do that though Paul. He's already gone to a defensive field, almost accepting the poor bowling
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To be honest on form at the moment I'd have Harris in our attack above Anderson.
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I think bigger problem is the combination of the bit of rain and the heavy roller seems to have taken the life out of the pitch for now, with cloud cover and a fairly new ball we should be seeing some seam but nothing is happening. That the length has been poor and the control hasn't been good enough just makes that lifeless pitch even more important.
We need damage limitation until tea and then see if a bit more happens in the evening session I think, I still believe the target is defensible but leaking runs right now is making it more difficult.
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Match gone for me. Completely wasted the new ball and made it ridiculously easy to score at a fast rate. Pitch will be really flat from here. Bowlers should hang their heads in shame
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Whatever happens in this match we look like we're on the slide. The Aussies from no hopers are now looking the better side. Our opening pair looks completely hopeless, Trott is failing, Bairstow doesn't look up to it, Prior is failing, Bres doesn't threaten enough, Jimmy has lost his mojo and as a team we don't appear to have any aggression or control.
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I am off to Paddypower with money on England to win from here.
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At last, Swanny!
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Need to get a couple of cheap wickets now, get them to 4 down withonly another 30-40 on the board and we're favourites again. Getting Warner would be fantastic.
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Australia will have to implode spectacularly from this point. We simply cannot bowl that poorly during the only part of the innings that is in our favour. That's probably the worst spell Anderson's had in 5 years
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Cook has just seemed to allow the game to slip away for me. He took much too long to get Swann bowling, allowing Rodgers and Warner to get themselves in against the dross we served up. Then he set really negative fields when we were desperate for a wicket. I think he's been thoroughly out captained by Clarke all series, regardless of what the score is
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It certainly hasn't helped that Swann is bowling really poorly also
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Cook has just seemed to allow the game to slip away for me. He took much too long to get Swann bowling, allowing Rodgers and Warner to get themselves in against the dross we served up. Then he set really negative fields when we were desperate for a wicket. I think he's been thoroughly out captained by Clarke all series, regardless of what the score is
We needed to crowd the bat early on, 5 close catchers with a couple in their eyeline, really put some pressure on, and then bowl slightly full to tempt them into the drives. Yet again we've allowed them to get into the game before trying to apply any pressure.
I think we need a change higher up if I'm honest. Flower has done a lot of good for us but him and Cook are too similar in their attitude to the game and it's stifled us.
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Really poor start after tea.
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Swann really has bowled a large number of awful balls in this innings.
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I really can't see how England are going to get themselves out of this slide at the Oval. Cook, Root, Trott, Prior, Bairstow, Bresnan, Anderson are all playing very poor cricket at the moment and it's impossible to drop them all.
Its a very hollow retention of the ashes.
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We're going to lose this, but even if we hadn't we've been unacceptably poor in the last two Tests. They made the mistake of keeping the same team after Old Trafford, when we were massively second best and it's looking like we're going to be beaten here. This team in the batting and bowling desperately needs freshening up. There are too many players coasting, too secure in their role in the side.
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Poor from Khawaja there, but we need several in a row to stand a chance.
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Get Root on, the seamers are expensive and doing nothing.
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Awful ball from Swann to get Clarke off the mark.
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Anderson has been fucking awful, get Broad on.
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This is fucking feeble at the moment
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This team needs changes.
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Bresnan gets Warner.
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We need a clatter of wickets to stand a chance.
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Broad for Anderson, about time.
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It's time to call up Kabir Ali, Robert Key, Rikki Clarke, Martin Saggers, Darren Pattinson, Ian Blackwell, Tim Munton, Derek Pringle and Gavin Hamilton.
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It's a bit different there are players who have done well around county cricket who deserve a shout, Taylor, Ballance, Onions(injured now), Tremlett all come to mind.
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Admittedly I only really know how Yorkshire players are performing but I saw Carberry mentioned as an opener the other day and couldn't help feeling it was based on him scoring a century in quick cricket rather than what he's done in the second division of the Championship. I haven't a clue if there are better players out there.
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What a waste of a review
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Can we!!!! Really can we!!!!
4 down now
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Great delivery from Broad to get Clarke out.
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Clarke gone!
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And another one, go on Stuart Broad :)
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Can we!!!! Really can we!!!!
5 down now
We really can!!!
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Can we!!!! Really can we!!!!
6 down now
We really can!!!
WE REALLY CAN!!!
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Smith now, nice one
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come on England
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Magic Broad
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Can we!!!! Really can we!!!!
7 down now
We really can!!!
WE REALLY CAN!!!
WE REALLY ARE - what a spell
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I did say earlier, get to tea without them having done too much damage and see if the pitch dried out and the affect of the roller wore off a little. I admit to getting a bit worried when we didn't get a 2nd before tea and I still think Flower probably needs to go soon but there was always likely to be a spell where nothing went well for the aussies.
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You lot are complete drama queens. About 2 hours ago it was slash wrist and now....
There is a reason why test matches are not won by the team chasing over 250 in the 4th innings.
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199/8 i think with extra 30 minutes will be all over tonight.
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That's a beauty to a lower order batsman, totally unplayable.
Broad has been superb in this match.
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That's a beauty to a lower order batsman, totally unplayable.
Broad has been superb in this match.
Broad can often look a bit average but I reckon he produces a match winning spell in every series.
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What a turnaround....Boycott's mum couldn't have done better. oh and thank heaven for no more Beckhams either ( that annoying Sky ad)
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dropped!
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2 chances there - Swanny should have held his!!!
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come on let's get the rabbits, hold these catches.
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all over by 19.30?
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all over by 19.30?
Hope so
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They will come back tomorrow for sure.
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They will come back tomorrow for sure.
Why!!!!
Way Broad is going all over tonight - 10 in match now!!!
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Broad has been incredible in this spell. Full of fire and intensity.
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Clatter!!!
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Root to win the Ashes!
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How did Prior fcuk that one up
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That really was poor from Prior, sums up his series, just lost his concentration.
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all over by 19.30?
whilst I'm at it Villa to lose all first three matches too
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Ashes are ours!!!!
STILL
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There she is.
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better late than never
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The Aussies have established a new coefficient of collapsibility.
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Oh dear this isn't looking good, we need a collapse here.
That'll do.
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Fuck me. I thought we had screwed it at 90 odd without loss. Leave work, find a pub with it on, consult Harry Potter spell book, job done. Convicto Collapso!
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Great test match cricket and a perfect illustration of why we should preserve and cherish it.
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Convicto Collapso!
Superb stuff
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You lot are complete drama queens. About 2 hours ago it was slash wrist and now....
There is a reason why test matches are not won by the team chasing over 250 in the 4th innings.
Absolutely, you'd think we were back to the dark days of endless humiliations reading some of the posts.
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Well done boys. Congrats.
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I think the tour down under will be fantastic stuff. Playing away will be a great leveller and I do not think that the players will be afforded the lack of concentration/intensity that they've shown at home.
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Well that's it wrapped up then. Can't complain too much about an Ashes series win, but I do think we shouldn't be getting too carried away as there do seem to be some pretty big flaws in the side at the moment. Saying that, after watching Ashes series through the 90's and early 00's we would have taken a win back then any way it would have come.
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We did it! At least it being so close will let the selectors know that we're miles off being the finished article. Rest anybody for the last match? I guess there'll be one change, say Taylor for Bairstow, as we don't seem to make wholesale changes. What a match, what an atmosphere!
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I think we'll see 2 changes with a fresh batsman and a fresh bowler, Tremlett and Taylor being the obvious choices. Not sure who of the bowlers will make way, but given it's a bit of a null match I'd give Jimmy a few extra days rest. As for Taylor the smart money would be on Bairstow being rested but I wouldn't be massively surprised if Prior was given a match off.
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Got to feel a bit for Ian Bell a third hundred in this ashes series and an average in excess of 80 and still no man of the match. Got to be man of the series I would have thought.
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I think we'll see 2 changes with a fresh batsman and a fresh bowler, Tremlett and Taylor being the obvious choices. Not sure who of the bowlers will make way, but given it's a bit of a null match I'd give Jimmy a few extra days rest. As for Taylor the smart money would be on Bairstow being rested but I wouldn't be massively surprised if Prior was given a match off.
Rest Jimmy before what? There aren't any ODIs until September and he won't play the T20s. And I imagine they'll feel that Broad and Bresnan are required for continuity. It's a shame for Tremlett and Onions though.
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The Aussies have established a new coefficient of collapsibility.
That was a collapse of epic proportions. Considering all the dropped catches and the missed run-out, it could have been over even sooner.
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Well done England, a superb win. This shows why Test Cricket is so great and that 250 is a VERY competitive total at Durham.
It's quite funny looking back on this thread a few pages ago, where are they all now.
England have become a team that is very difficult to beat while Australia have become the exact opposite. Special mention though for Ryan Harris, i'm biased as he plays for Queensland but he's a terrific bowler. Hits the bat hard, always at the batsman and bowls great lines. He didn't deserve to be on a losing side after that.
We've seen some really great bowling throughout this series, when it's easy to criticise the batsman we tend to forget that.
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ok I'm just about to watch the highlights. I left the house at about 120-1 thinking we'd fucked it, was told in the pub. Amazing.
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That was Test Match cricket at it's fastest. That game twisted favour a few times today. What happened to 190 runs and about 6 wickets per day?
Getting spoilt these days, one day cricket has got into the nature of a lot of modern players.
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This was a wicket you had to score fast on, there was always a ball with the batsman's name on it coming up at some point, trying to hang around and eke out a total was never the way to go.
I was still reasonably confident at 120-1 or so because wickets were going to fall at some point and the Aussies are very brittle in their middle order, even worse than our top order! Once Broad found some reverse swing it was only going one way.
To the person who thinks Flower should go, come on, look at the results, and this is being achieved with four or five of the team in no real form at the moment, the likes of Trott, Cook, Prior and Anderson won't be this bad forever, they'll find form again.
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I think we'll see 2 changes with a fresh batsman and a fresh bowler, Tremlett and Taylor being the obvious choices. Not sure who of the bowlers will make way, but given it's a bit of a null match I'd give Jimmy a few extra days rest. As for Taylor the smart money would be on Bairstow being rested but I wouldn't be massively surprised if Prior was given a match off.
Tremlett in for Bresnan and Compton for Bairstow (Compton opening with Root going to six) for me. Harsh on Bresnan, but Tremlett needs to be given a go with one eye on the return series. Can't see that happening though and some of the Sky pundits were also suggesting that Jimmy could do with a rest.
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Rest Jimmy before what? There aren't any ODIs until September and he won't play the T20s. And I imagine they'll feel that Broad and Bresnan are required for continuity. It's a shame for Tremlett and Onions though.
I think the suggested move of "resting" Anderson for the last test is a good one. Replacing any other bowlers would be seen as him being dropped whereas this way it will be like a play off between the remaining bowlers ensuring they don't get complacent in a dead rubber match.
Arguably Tremlet deserves a test match to pitch his case (and improve him as a player) whereas it'd be controversial to drop any of the current bowlers.
"win v win" as they say, and a chance for anderson to see his family (or whatever it is he does to relax).
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(http://rlv.zcache.com/english_flag_round_stickers-r1cd7de5bca0149b49c689bc3c47ba3e0_v9waf_8byvr_512.jpg)
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Well fuck my old boots.
Weird test match, in keeping with this odd series. If you picked a Best XI made up of the two sides, only Bell and Broad would be definites from England. KP would prob get in too, even if has been below par, and Swann offers more than their spin options.
After that, it's a tough call.
None of that matters, of course.
Had England just lost 3-0, such comparisons, or talking about an even split of sessions or days won would be very scant consolation.
There are obvious areas of concern, but today is not the day for that. Question marks might remain over some aspects of Cook's captaincy, but he's secured an Ashes victory in less time than it took Strauss, so he must be doing something right.
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I was all up for Tremlett in the next match, but Bresnan knocking 45 and then removing Wagner...he might not be the most awe inspiring bowler but he is a team player, I think it would be harsh to drop him. Game changing innings and wicket.
Broad was excellent, if only he would remember that pitching it up pays dividends, too often too short, as with the new ball early on. When he is on song he can produce real quality and pace, the ball to send Clarke home was a jaffa.
I'm so happy, I've watched the highlights three times already.
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Could we amend the title to include "Now with added Aussie tears..." or somesuch?
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Well fair play, I eat my words from earlier in the day(well most of them!). That was a sensational spell from Broad, and when he gets going he's unstoppable. There are still some big issues with the team, predominantely with the batting. I'd consider a couple of changes for the Oval, maybe rest Anderson and Trott. However fantastic achievement to win the Ashes again, well done Flower, Cook and all.
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Bastard Radio 4, getting in the car after work they inexplicably cut the cricket off on LW for The Archers! Now I know it was on digital but how many cars have that? aaaaand the fuckin Archers is on FM anyway.
Wankers.
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Rest Jimmy before what? There aren't any ODIs until September and he won't play the T20s. And I imagine they'll feel that Broad and Bresnan are required for continuity. It's a shame for Tremlett and Onions though.
I think the suggested move of "resting" Anderson for the last test is a good one. Replacing any other bowlers would be seen as him being dropped whereas this way it will be like a play off between the remaining bowlers ensuring they don't get complacent in a dead rubber match.
Arguably Tremlet deserves a test match to pitch his case (and improve him as a player) whereas it'd be controversial to drop any of the current bowlers.
"win v win" as they say, and a chance for anderson to see his family (or whatever it is he does to relax).
That's exactly my reasoning. You can't rest Broad after that performance, if you leave Bres out it looks to the entire world like he's been dropped so the only sensible change is to give Jimmy a match off, he looked like he could do with a rest anyway if I'm honest. We need to think about the touring squad now and it would be best if most of the players we're looking to take have had some time in the middle in this series. Onions will miss out because of injury you'd think but Tremlett deserves some time as he will be an important weapon on the aussie pitches.
I'd also rest Prior, again because it genuinely looks like he's being rested rather than being dropped so he's a 'safe' choice to leave out, and again he looks like he could do with it.
As for my point on Flower, I don't dispute his record, I just think that, to make a step forward and look at getting top ranking we need a change in the mindset of the squad. Cook hasn't had a lot of time as captain and there is no real replacement ready to step up so that mindset change to better judge the tempo of the match has to come from the coach. I don't think he'll go anywhere before we tour but a successful tour down under and a 4th consecutive ashes win would be a perfect time to bow out for him.
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Cook needs to look at his tactics IMO. To often he seems to be doing things "by numbers". Ok he has been bailed out on numerous occasions, usually by Anderson or Broad, but really needs to start being more inventive. He is too ready to shut up shop and hope than try and make something happen.
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Cook needs to look at his tactics IMO. To often he seems to be doing things "by numbers". Ok he has been bailed out on numerous occasions, usually by Anderson or Broad, but really needs to start being more inventive. He is too ready to shut up shop and hope than try and make something happen.
That's true an extent, but yesterday he changed his fields to being much straighter and that was the catalyst for the collapse, along with excellent bowling.
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Cook needs to look at his tactics IMO. To often he seems to be doing things "by numbers". Ok he has been bailed out on numerous occasions, usually by Anderson or Broad, but really needs to start being more inventive. He is too ready to shut up shop and hope than try and make something happen.
Cook trusts his bowlers to make things happen rather than pressuring the batsmen with the field places to make things happen. You can't fault him for it massively because between them Swann, Jimmy and Broad have each won us a game in this series with a couple of sublime bowling spells. I generally don't have a massive issue with it but he does need to be more aggressive when the pitch isn't helping (like at Old Trafford).
It's the batting tempo I have issue with, England are too often sat around 2.5-3 an over regardless of the conditions, the first innings in the last test is a great example of it, 238 from 92 overs is not enough, in the 2nd innings the tempo was much better with 330 from 95.1 (so 92 more runs from and extra 19 balls). As a pitch Durham gets you eventually so you have to score whilst you're there, when we did that we showed that we're a significantly better side than them.
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This concerns me from Flower -
- Are England looking to be the world's number one Test side again?
It was a burning ambition for us, because we had not been number one before. That has dissipated slightly, we were focussing on this series, then we focus on the next Test series. The number one ranking is no longer the clear motivation it was, we used it quite well as a motivating tool, but we are not quite as hungry for it as we were before.
I would think getting to World Number 1 is the ultimate ambition and then remaining at World Number 1. That's how you judge great teams and surely that's what the team wants to be.
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Jimmy's major problem is not bowling enough. He is clearly having issues with his game, these will not be worked out by resting him. The guy has hardly bowled all summer.
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I think the following from Tom Fordyce on the BBC review of the match sums this series up better than anything else I've seen:
England have played well only in bursts. But those bursts have been electrifying, and they have been enough to open an unbridgeable chasm between the sides.
I've said on here a few times despite all the comments about Australia having a better bowling unit (I hope that is firmly put to bed now a 3rd different bowler has skittled them) we're clearly the better side. Yes we have some issues, the top 3 aren't gelling and our batting at 6 and 7 has been ropey but we're a far better side than australia and better than we've been given credit for by a lot of people. I hope Clarke and Lehmann feel as stupid as they should for the 'we only fear Anderson' shit they came out with earlier on as well.
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Just seen Lees for the first time batting against Unicorns (whoever they are), looks quite a player, he and Ballance batted superbly.
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Just to divert the conversation away from England, where do the Aussies go from here? They desperately need to strengthen their batting line up, as there are too many "bits and pieces" players in there at the moment.
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It wasn't so long ago they could field two teams that could comfortably beat England, the likes of Lehmann, Bevan etc weren't in their Test side but were scoring runs for fun over here.
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Torygraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/theashes/10239428/Ashes-2013-Darren-Lehmann-warns-Australians-their-careers-are-on-the-line.html)
Darren Lehmann warns Australians their careers are on the line
By Nick Hoult
Shane Watson, Usman Khawaja, Brad Haddin and Steve Smith are all on notice to improve in the final Test at the Oval or face the prospect of Darren Lehmann, the still relatively new coach, looking for fresh faces when the return Ashes series starts in November.
Watson battled his weakness of playing across his front pad in the first innings at Durham to reach 68 against England but slipped back into old habits on Monday when he was lbw for the 25th time in his career. Khawaja is averaging 25 from nine Tests and has been dismissed 10 times between 21 and 65, a statistic which suggests a lack of concentration once he has settled at the crease.
Smith is on stronger ground as Lehmann is a big fan and insisted on his inclusion in the Ashes squad when he succeeded Mickey Arthur as coach. Dropping Haddin would leave the Australia team requiring a new vice-captain, a job in the future possibly for Chris Rogers.
When asked if players were playing for their careers at the Oval Lehmann replied: “Yep. There is nothing wrong with that. I’m happy for you to write whatever you write there. To play for Australia, you have to perform to a level that’s acceptable to everyone in our team, and also the Australian public and the media, and at the moment we’re not doing that. I think they’ve fought really hard and they’ve shown glimpses of challenging a really good side obviously, but we haven’t done that consistently enough.
“So we’ll back them as we have and we will continue to back them, but at the end of the day performances count. From our point of view the blokes have got to learn. If they don’t learn we will find blokes that will.”
Lehmann confirmed Rogers and David Warner could be Australia’s settled opening partnership for the foreseeable future.
The only problem Lehmann has on the bowling front is whether to rest Ryan Harris for the fifth Test. Harris has never played four Tests in a row. Lehmann’s side have also proved they can take 20 wickets regardless of the identity of the bowling attack.
“We would love him to play,” he said about Harris. “He is exceptional. We will be extra careful with him. We have to make sure he is right come the next Test series.”
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I tried explaining the Ashes to a French colleague today. Ignoring all the "so you can play five days and not have a winner" and "so you'll play 50 days of cricket between the same two teams? Yep, plus ODIs and T20" guff, I explained how we were losing after the first innings, then losing again when they replied, then pulled it back by restricting their first innings lead, to winning by batting well in the second innings, to losing when they got a 100 odd with the loss of no wickets, to finally winning! Oh, and winning the Ashes that we had already retained!
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I tried explaining the Ashes to a French colleague today. Ignoring all the "so you can play five days and not have a winner" and "so you'll play 50 days of cricket between the same two teams? Yep, plus ODIs and T20" guff, I explained how we were losing after the first innings, then losing again when they replied, then pulled it back by restricting their first innings lead, to winning by batting well in the second innings, to losing when they got a 100 odd with the loss of no wickets, to finally winning! Oh, and winning the Ashes that we had already retained!
I think it takes 10-20 years to properly 'get' cricket. To understand, for example, why batting for 6 hours, scoring hardly any runs to salvage a draw is something that can cause mass celebration.
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I thought Anderson looked like he was carrying a niggle. If so I'd definitely rest him for Tremlett. Plus, if he isn't injured its an easy one for the selectors to saythat he was carrying a niggle here, rather than playing poorly. I'm not sure I'd change too much at this point. 3 up with batting practice to come up with the pressure off. May as well leave Bairstow there andgive him one more game. Same with Root at the top although i think his position inthe order is moreat risk than his place. For the same reasons as bairstow I wouldn't drop Prior, either.
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Just to divert the conversation away from England, where do the Aussies go from here? They desperately need to strengthen their batting line up, as there are too many "bits and pieces" players in there at the moment.
As an avid watcher of Australian Cricket I can tell you that the main problem Australia have is that there top 7 are the best that they have right now. Chris mentioned Lehmann and Bevan playing that couldn't make the side a while back, add to that Law, Elliott, Hodge and others. There is no one knocking on the door, scoring a shit load of Sheffield Shield runs or looking like they have what it takes right now. If this group of players doesn't work then i'm not sure where they go. The Marsh brothers are good players but have off the field issues, Queensland have Jacob Burns who looks a decent player but I can't think of much else.
The bowling is fine, like England they could field two attacks in test cricket and be consistent with plenty of potential coming through - they just don't have any batsmen.
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Just to divert the conversation away from England, where do the Aussies go from here? They desperately need to strengthen their batting line up, as there are too many "bits and pieces" players in there at the moment.
As an avid watcher of Australian Cricket I can tell you that the main problem Australia have is that there top 7 are the best that they have right now. Chris mentioned Lehmann and Bevan playing that couldn't make the side a while back, add to that Law, Elliott, Hodge and others. There is no one knocking on the door, scoring a shit load of Sheffield Shield runs or looking like they have what it takes right now. If this group of players doesn't work then i'm not sure where they go. The Marsh brothers are good players but have off the field issues, Queensland have Jacob Burns who looks a decent player but I can't think of much else.
The bowling is fine, like England they could field two attacks in test cricket and be consistent with plenty of potential coming through - they just don't have any batsmen.
This statement will not stand up to much scrutiny (because they're not my words), but my mate who works in cricket goes out to Australia each winter and what has struck him is that less and less people are playing cricket in an informal basis. Their pyramid system makes a very easy/strategic route to the top whereas our disjointed village system ensures there are always masses of people playing cricket.
The crucial bit is encouraging as many people to play cricket as possible, and to have access to cricket, even if it is a bad level.
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Just to divert the conversation away from England, where do the Aussies go from here? They desperately need to strengthen their batting line up, as there are too many "bits and pieces" players in there at the moment.
As an avid watcher of Australian Cricket I can tell you that the main problem Australia have is that there top 7 are the best that they have right now. Chris mentioned Lehmann and Bevan playing that couldn't make the side a while back, add to that Law, Elliott, Hodge and others. There is no one knocking on the door, scoring a shit load of Sheffield Shield runs or looking like they have what it takes right now. If this group of players doesn't work then i'm not sure where they go. The Marsh brothers are good players but have off the field issues, Queensland have Jacob Burns who looks a decent player but I can't think of much else.
The bowling is fine, like England they could field two attacks in test cricket and be consistent with plenty of potential coming through - they just don't have any batsmen.
I heard Darren Gough talking on the radio earlier and he was saying there are a number of talented youngsters coming through and even named an XI that he thought could win the Ashes back in the next series. I think losing Mike Hussey was a blow as he would have been a steadying influence and surely there is room in the set up for someone like Katich?
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Just to divert the conversation away from England, where do the Aussies go from here? They desperately need to strengthen their batting line up, as there are too many "bits and pieces" players in there at the moment.
As an avid watcher of Australian Cricket I can tell you that the main problem Australia have is that there top 7 are the best that they have right now. Chris mentioned Lehmann and Bevan playing that couldn't make the side a while back, add to that Law, Elliott, Hodge and others. There is no one knocking on the door, scoring a shit load of Sheffield Shield runs or looking like they have what it takes right now. If this group of players doesn't work then i'm not sure where they go. The Marsh brothers are good players but have off the field issues, Queensland have Jacob Burns who looks a decent player but I can't think of much else.
The bowling is fine, like England they could field two attacks in test cricket and be consistent with plenty of potential coming through - they just don't have any batsmen.
I heard Darren Gough talking on the radio earlier and he was saying there are a number of talented youngsters coming through and even named an XI that he thought could win the Ashes back in the next series. I think losing Mike Hussey was a blow as he would have been a steadying influence and surely there is room in the set up for someone like Katich?
Gough is living in a dream world then because there is really no one and Clarke keeps re-iterating as much himself. The top run scorer on the Australia A tour to South Africa just finished was Glenn Maxwell, a slogging all-rounder who really cannot be considered as Test Match Top 7 standard.
This really is their best bet and they'll stick with it due to lack of alternatives. Here are the top 5 batsman in the Sheffield Shield last season:
The final was between Tasmania and Queensland (who got there mainly through a terrific bowling attack with Lehmann as Coach).
Ricky Ponting Tasmania Innings: 16 Runs: 911 Highest score: 200* Ave: 75.91
Mark Cosgrove Tasmania Innings:20 Runs:784 Highest Score: 104 Ave: 39.20
Chris Rogers Victoria Innings:17 Runs: 742 Highest score: 131 Ave: 49.46
Alex Doolan Tasmania Innings: 18 Runs: 715 Highest Score: 149 Ave: 42.05
Phillip Hughes South Australia Innings: 12 Runs: 673 Highest Score: 158 Ave: 56.08
2 are on the tour already, Ponting has retired and Cosgrove will never be picked because he is old, fat and proven to be not up to it. Katich has also been discarded due to age and the fact that he openly criticised Cricket Australia when he was dropped initially.
Think about how many good Australian overseas batsmen there are in the County Championship that are still up and coming and doing the business, especially compared to previous eras.
Hussey, (Mike and Dave), Langer, Hayden, Law, Di Venuto, Bevan, Hodge, Lehmann Elliott, Blewitt, Watson, Cosgrove all played County Championship and scored heavily before they got their Test call ups.
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I tried explaining the Ashes to a French colleague today. Ignoring all the "so you can play five days and not have a winner" and "so you'll play 50 days of cricket between the same two teams? Yep, plus ODIs and T20" guff, I explained how we were losing after the first innings, then losing again when they replied, then pulled it back by restricting their first innings lead, to winning by batting well in the second innings, to losing when they got a 100 odd with the loss of no wickets, to finally winning! Oh, and winning the Ashes that we had already retained!
I think it takes 10-20 years to properly 'get' cricket. To understand, for example, why batting for 6 hours, scoring hardly any runs to salvage a draw is something that can cause mass celebration.
Yep, I had difficulty explaining it to my wife this week. She couldnt understand why I was celebrating winning the Ashes on Monday, when last week I'd celebrated us retaining them. But the question she couldnt get her head around was why we are bothering with the Oval match when it seems we've already one the whole thing. Twice.
Girls, eh?!
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Just to divert the conversation away from England, where do the Aussies go from here? They desperately need to strengthen their batting line up, as there are too many "bits and pieces" players in there at the moment.
As an avid watcher of Australian Cricket I can tell you that the main problem Australia have is that there top 7 are the best that they have right now. Chris mentioned Lehmann and Bevan playing that couldn't make the side a while back, add to that Law, Elliott, Hodge and others. There is no one knocking on the door, scoring a shit load of Sheffield Shield runs or looking like they have what it takes right now. If this group of players doesn't work then i'm not sure where they go. The Marsh brothers are good players but have off the field issues, Queensland have Jacob Burns who looks a decent player but I can't think of much else.
The bowling is fine, like England they could field two attacks in test cricket and be consistent with plenty of potential coming through - they just don't have any batsmen.
I heard Darren Gough talking on the radio earlier and he was saying there are a number of talented youngsters coming through and even named an XI that he thought could win the Ashes back in the next series. I think losing Mike Hussey was a blow as he would have been a steadying influence and surely there is room in the set up for someone like Katich?
Gough is living in a dream world then because there is really no one and Clarke keeps re-iterating as much himself. The top run scorer on the Australia A tour to South Africa just finished was Glenn Maxwell, a slogging all-rounder who really cannot be considered as Test Match Top 7 standard.
This really is their best bet and they'll stick with it due to lack of alternatives. Here are the top 5 batsman in the Sheffield Shield last season:
The final was between Tasmania and Queensland (who got there mainly through a terrific bowling attack with Lehmann as Coach).
Ricky Ponting Tasmania Innings: 16 Runs: 911 Highest score: 200* Ave: 75.91
Mark Cosgrove Tasmania Innings:20 Runs:784 Highest Score: 104 Ave: 39.20
Chris Rogers Victoria Innings:17 Runs: 742 Highest score: 131 Ave: 49.46
Alex Doolan Tasmania Innings: 18 Runs: 715 Highest Score: 149 Ave: 42.05
Phillip Hughes South Australia Innings: 12 Runs: 673 Highest Score: 158 Ave: 56.08
2 are on the tour already, Ponting has retired and Cosgrove will never be picked because he is old, fat and proven to be not up to it. Katich has also been discarded due to age and the fact that he openly criticised Cricket Australia when he was dropped initially.
Think about how many good Australian overseas batsmen there are in the County Championship that are still up and coming and doing the business, especially compared to previous eras.
Hussey, (Mike and Dave), Langer, Hayden, Law, Di Venuto, Bevan, Hodge, Lehmann Elliott, Blewitt, Watson, Cosgrove all played County Championship and scored heavily before they got their Test call ups.
Can't remember the exact players he mentioned, but Gough talking about Australia can be found here:
http://talksport.com/radio/schedule/2013-08-13
It's on the Drivetime show after 4pm and then he names his Australian team after 4.30pm.
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Bresnan's out for the rest of the Summer. Onions, Finn or someone else to replace him? Maybe Tremlett if they go with an extra spinner... expect Panesar has blotted his copybook for a while.
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Reckon it'll be Onions.
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There was talk if resting Jimmy. He needs it but wonder if they will now. I would give Onions a go though.
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Useless Yorkshire bastard. Only two more to go.
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T20 Finals day at Edgbaston on Saturday. I'll be there but can only name two teams involved without looking it up (Essex and Northants I think), have no idea who's favourite and probably won't know more than a dozen players in total.
What I do know is that I was there a couple of years ago and it was fantastic (albeit wet - very, very wet). Both semi-finals were ties and went to bowl offs. Oh and I spent 12 hours drinking and could barely see by the time the final finished!
Anyone else going on Saturday? Any predictions?
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T20 Finals day at Edgbaston on Saturday. I'll be there but can only name two teams involved without looking it up (Essex and Northants I think), have no idea who's favourite and probably won't know more than a dozen players in total.
What I do know is that I was there a couple of years ago and it was fantastic (albeit wet - very, very wet). Both semi-finals were ties and went to bowl offs. Oh and I spent 12 hours drinking and could barely see by the time the final finished!
Anyone else going on Saturday? Any predictions?
Hampshire and Surrey the other 2 teams.
I have a sneaky feeling for Northants.
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Useless Yorkshire bastard. Only two more to go.
Tedious.
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T20 Finals day at Edgbaston on Saturday. I'll be there but can only name two teams involved without looking it up (Essex and Northants I think), have no idea who's favourite and probably won't know more than a dozen players in total.
What I do know is that I was there a couple of years ago and it was fantastic (albeit wet - very, very wet). Both semi-finals were ties and went to bowl offs. Oh and I spent 12 hours drinking and could barely see by the time the final finished!
Anyone else going on Saturday? Any predictions?
Hampshire and Surrey the other 2 teams.
I have a sneaky feeling for Northants.
Go Essex.
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Reckon it'll be Onions.
He's got a broken finger, I think it'll be Tremlett. I definitely think they rate Tremlett and want him in.
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tremlett is the obvious choice, Australian pitches tend to suit 'bang it in' bowlers so him and Broad will be important when we get down there.
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Interesting to see that there are five Yorkshire lads in the U19 squad to play Pakistan and Bangladesh (and sadly no Bears). Who's responsible for these bright young things Chris?
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Martyn Moxon when he returned to Yorkshire from Durham set about sorting the Academy out, think Jason Gillespie has been very encouraging when it comes to giving players their debuts in the first team at a young age. Maybe it's with Moxon being a batsman but they do seem to have an awful lot of promising batsmen coming through, Lees in particular looks a great prospect.
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In this game Fisher (15!), Rhodes and Shaw are all bowling seam (and very well too).
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And now Carver's bowling left arm spin.
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Martyn Moxon when he returned to Yorkshire from Durham set about sorting the Academy out, think Jason Gillespie has been very encouraging when it comes to giving players their debuts in the first team at a young age. Maybe it's with Moxon being a batsman but they do seem to have an awful lot of promising batsmen coming through, Lees in particular looks a great prospect.
I heard Boycott waxing profusely elegant about Lees: reckons he has it all.
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In this game Fisher (15!), Rhodes and Shaw are all bowling seam (and very well too).
Fisher has already played in the first team, they had to get permission from his school to play him! Only saw Lees for the first time the other day but he looked excellent, stands very tall and straight at the crease, having spoken to others who have seen they seem to have the same opinion of Boycott.
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Well he scored 33 against the Aussies today (Ballance n.o. 44)
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Hadn't realised Plunkett was playing as well.
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tremlett is the obvious choice, Australian pitches tend to suit 'bang it in' bowlers so him and Broad will be important when we get down there.
Not sure how it is playing this season, but The Oval has always been renowned as a quick and bouncy pitch. Would suit Tremlett if it is like that.
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Well he scored 33 against the Aussies today (Ballance n.o. 44)
Ballance appears to me to be the best prospect of all these young players coming through, even Root.
They should definitely give Ballance a proper go in the ODI's
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I think Tremlett will come in at the Oval.
Personally I'd bring Finn back as he's done pretty well at Middlesex since being dropped and the Oval will suit him. There's also a lot less pressure now the series is in the bag, and Finn is going to be a hugely important player for England over the next 7 to 8 years.
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Useless Yorkshire bastard. Only two more to go.
Tedious.
It was a joke. However, it least it stopped you blathering on about how great Yorkshire players are whenever they're criticised. Now, that is tedious.
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You need to work on your material in that case, have a word with Titus.
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T20 Finals day at Edgbaston on Saturday. I'll be there but can only name two teams involved without looking it up (Essex and Northants I think), have no idea who's favourite and probably won't know more than a dozen players in total.
What I do know is that I was there a couple of years ago and it was fantastic (albeit wet - very, very wet). Both semi-finals were ties and went to bowl offs. Oh and I spent 12 hours drinking and could barely see by the time the final finished!
Anyone else going on Saturday? Any predictions?
Hampshire and Surrey the other 2 teams.
I have a sneaky feeling for Northants.
Good call!
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If Warwickshire can't win it I'm glad to see another Midlands side has. Well done, Northants.
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I see Woakes and Kerrigan have been called up by England for The Oval test squad. Can't see Woakes playing, but a confidence boost for him. Thought he looked a bit dazed by the treatment he got in the short games.
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Don't think Woakes would be good enough (yet) to get in the side as a bowler. But with Bairstow's lack of runs, he'd be a decent option coming in at 7, with Prior moving up to 6.
I think they'll stick with Bairstow, mind. Give him at least one more match to try and look convincing, seeing as the pressure is off, to all intents and purposes.
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Sadly they'll stick with Bairstow. But we won't want to be making more than 1 or 2 changes and with Bresnan being out that leaves less room for changes. I'd drop Anderson,well 'rest', for Tremlett and then go like for like with a replacement for Bresnan. Not sure what Kerrigan does but I wouldn't mind betting that Woakes will be very close to a call up as a 4th seamer who can bat.
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I'm amazed that Woakes has been called up, he's never an International seamer at the moment. I think Finn and Tremlett might play.
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I'm amazed that Woakes has been called up, he's never an International seamer at the moment. I think Finn and Tremlett might play.
Woakes is'nt being picked as an international seamer, he's being picked as an international all rounder. If they want a genuine like for like replacement for bresnan to add runs in the tail he's as good a choice as anyone as he's got a very good record with bat and ball this summer. Kerrigan deserves a chance to be around the squad after the summer he's had, if Monty hadn't pissed the selectors off (he he) I doubt he'd be there but I like the idea of getting a few players in this age group in and around the squad. We need to be very careful not to do what australia did and let the team grow old together, they've had a fair few years in the doldrums because of it and aren't looking like they've got a turn the corner moment coming soon. India are another example of letting great players stick together for too long with no younger talent in and around them, the IPL is probably going to stop them falling as far as the aussies though, not because of the players it produces directly but because it's kept the interest very high despite the national team weakening.
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In a three man seam attack you need your third seamer to be International class. I've been critical of Bresnan but he's a much better bowler than Woakes is currently. Woakes needs to improve his bowling quite a bit if he wants to have a chance in International cricket.
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In a team where 3 of your bowlers are well capable of taking 5 or 6 wicket hauls with spells of unplayable excellence the 4th bowler needs to be consistent, economical and adaptable to the situation, this is why I prefer Bres to Finn, Finn should be competing with Broad and Jimmy for a strike bowler spot (along with Tremlett) but we need other options for the Bresnan role as well, someone who gets the odd wicket with a decent economy and who can bowl a long stretch whilst the others rest/rotate. I don't know if Woakes can translate county form to international but I think it's fair to get him with the squad and training to see if he can. I'd give him a go to see if he can be that 'safe' option to tie up one end.
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Bresnan's out for the rest of the Summer. Onions, Finn or someone else to replace him? Maybe Tremlett if they go with an extra spinner... expect Panesar has blotted his copybook for a while.
Indeed he has, Sussex are releasing him too.
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Bresnan's out for the rest of the Summer. Onions, Finn or someone else to replace him? Maybe Tremlett if they go with an extra spinner... expect Panesar has blotted his copybook for a while.
Indeed he has, Sussex are releasing him too.
Tremlett is a pace bowler not a spinner .
Tremlett Anderson and broad will destroy the Aussies with swann cleaning up in the 2nd innings.
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England Lions completely tonked Bangladesh A. 353/4 against 151ao.
Luke Wright 143 off 68 balls and Gary Ballance 115 from 89.
Carberry and Wright both took two wickets in an over.... That's a pretty strong XI:
Carberry, Vince, Taylor, Ballance, Wright*, Buttler+, Stokes, Willey, Overton, Rankin, Briggs
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In a three man seam attack you need your third seamer to be International class. I've been critical of Bresnan but he's a much better bowler than Woakes is currently. Woakes needs to improve his bowling quite a bit if he wants to have a chance in International cricket.
Congratulations on reaching 20,000 posts. Perhaps you could mark this milestone by pressing the 'DONATE HERE' button top left.
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In a three man seam attack you need your third seamer to be International class. I've been critical of Bresnan but he's a much better bowler than Woakes is currently. Woakes needs to improve his bowling quite a bit if he wants to have a chance in International cricket.
Congratulations on reaching 20,000 posts. Perhaps you could mark this milestone by pressing the 'DONATE HERE' button top left.
Should be done now!
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In a three man seam attack you need your third seamer to be International class. I've been critical of Bresnan but he's a much better bowler than Woakes is currently. Woakes needs to improve his bowling quite a bit if he wants to have a chance in International cricket.
Congratulations on reaching 20,000 posts. Perhaps you could mark this milestone by pressing the 'DONATE HERE' button top left.
Should be done now!
Thanks.
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In a three man seam attack you need your third seamer to be International class. I've been critical of Bresnan but he's a much better bowler than Woakes is currently. Woakes needs to improve his bowling quite a bit if he wants to have a chance in International cricket.
Congratulations on reaching 20,000 posts. Perhaps you could mark this milestone by pressing the 'DONATE HERE' button top left.
Shameless solicitation ....I like it!
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In a three man seam attack you need your third seamer to be International class. I've been critical of Bresnan but he's a much better bowler than Woakes is currently. Woakes needs to improve his bowling quite a bit if he wants to have a chance in International cricket.
Congratulations on reaching 20,000 posts. Perhaps you could mark this milestone by pressing the 'DONATE HERE' button top left.
Shameless solicitation ....I like it!
Good call, PaulWinch again - UTV!
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Lehman has made himself out to be a complete w@#€er with his comments on radio overnight about Stuart Broad and should be very careful about inciting trouble - anyone who has been to Oz and experienced the behaviour of the convict crowds should know they don't need much encouragement to behave like tossers.
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Lehman has made himself out to be a complete w@#€er with his comments on radio overnight about Stuart Broad and should be very careful about inciting trouble - anyone who has been to Oz and experienced the behaviour of the convict crowds should know they don't need much encouragement to behave like tossers.
I don't think it's much of an issue. He knows his side will be up against it in the Ashes part 2 and is trying allsorts.
I don't think that this England side will be affected by crowd abuse and it will undoubtedly inspire the likes of Broad.
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Poor comments from Lehmann really, how's it any worse than Clarke reviewing when he knew he'd hit it in the hope the technology wouldn't pick it up?
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Classless, Alrdridge Prior-looking prick.
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Think lehmanns comments were more made jokingly than in a nasty way .
Huge toss to win this one.
Looks like Kerrigan is playing too and going with 2 spinners, nice to see woakes starts as well.
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Caps given to Woakes and Kerrigan, very interesting.
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Woakes replaces Bairstow, Kerrigan replaces Bresnan - no Finn or tremlett from aggers tweet.
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I do worry about Woakes in our attack. He is a yard short of pace and consequently is not test class.
However as a Bear and a Villan I hope he proves me wrong and has a sparkling debut.
I wonder if three Bears have played in the same test for England before?
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No Tremlett very odd decision. Woakes needs to turn up with the ball here. Good luck Woakes and Kerrigan.
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Bowling first will be tough. Woakes as number 6 is big big pressure on him, he needs to turn up with the bat and support well with the ball.
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Bairstow has failed too many times , I'm happy with that change but surprised tremlett misses out.
What time is your flight pwa ? Have a nice holiday !
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It's 5.50 mate cheers. Hopefully Villa and England will perform in my absence!
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People talk about Woakes not good enough as a bowler, this belief is in part due to his performances in the one dayers, well i watch a lot of him in Championship cricket where he bowls to his strengths good length and movement. He will surprise a few during this test match, i'm not saying he is gonna rip through the aussies and score a double ton but i'm sure that as long as he is not overawed by the occasion he will take a few wickets and score some runs - hopefully at least a 50 in the first innings.
He is good enough - he has been around the England camp for a while now being groomed for this day........some will be disappointed that Tremlett not playing but he is already on the plane to Australia, a chance here to see if Kerrigan and Woakes cut the mustard!!!
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It's 5.50 mate cheers. Hopefully Villa and England will perform in my absence!
I would be prepared to accept an Aussie win here if villa pick up a win tonight :)
Lets hope jimmy is on the ball with his bowling - he had a poor test at Durham.
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Well I'm shocked by that team selection. It seems very experimental and the set up can't believe its their best team. I'd have preferred us to be ruthless.
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I haven't seen the build up. Have they stated that Woakes will bat at 6?
He's a decent batsman, but theres no way he's an international no 6 at this stage. I'd have him as a good no 8.
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I'm coming round to the Woakes idea on the basis I think he's been selected as a batsmen who can bowl. If he can perform with the bat it gives us options as none of our number sixes have grabbed their opportunity.
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Not much bounce, Monty must feel really stupid now he would have been playing without his stupid behaviour.
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Bresnan's out for the rest of the Summer. Onions, Finn or someone else to replace him? Maybe Tremlett if they go with an extra spinner... expect Panesar has blotted his copybook for a while.
Indeed he has, Sussex are releasing him too.
Tremlett is a pace bowler not a spinner .
Tremlett Anderson and broad will destroy the Aussies with swann cleaning up in the 2nd innings.
Right you are, I'm mixing up Tremlett with Tredwell.
Welcome back, by the way!
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Rogers edges and it drops short.
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Then he's lucky with an LBW, good start from Broad.
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Jimmy's line is off at the moment.
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Warner gone, Jimmy finds his length and line.
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I do think England need to address how they manage Bairstow, he needs to get a lot more cricket.
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Bowling well without luck here
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This looks a 450 pitch minimum
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Bresnan's out for the rest of the Summer. Onions, Finn or someone else to replace him? Maybe Tremlett if they go with an extra spinner... expect Panesar has blotted his copybook for a while.
Indeed he has, Sussex are releasing him too.
Tremlett is a pace bowler not a spinner .
Tremlett Anderson and broad will destroy the Aussies with swann cleaning up in the 2nd innings.
Right you are, I'm mixing up Tremlett with Tredwell.
Welcome back, by the way!
Thanks , i mixed them up too in the one dayers .
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Right come on Woakes, turn up lad.
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I do like the idea of blooding youngsters from a position of strength. I would have included Taylor in this game as well for that reason.
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Woakes is bowling at mid 80s which is good enough if he's accurate.
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This looks a 450 pitch minimum
Cant see that , I'd say anything over 300 is a good score - Botham said we should be looking to get the Aussies out for 250ish - no pace in the wicket and lots of spin , no way the Aussies will get anywhere near to 450.
In fact i wouldn't be too surprised to see them bowled out for less than 200.
I think you should be able to get a big score first innings. There's only a touch of spin at the moment and as soon as the ball gets a bit softer there will be little in it for the seamers.
I think its a huge toss to win
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Finn tweets very supportively of the new lads, good team player.
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It is a big toss to win but i expect both spinners to take wickets on day one - swann is already on , really think the Aussies will struggle with swann , lets hope Kerrigan delivers - this is a perfect pitch for monty - how pissed off he must be ( pardon the pun) :)
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Well we've bowled well in that first hour and Australia have rode their luck quite a lot.
It should get pretty easy to bat on as the day goes on
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It's going to be tough bowling from now.
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Woakes has been unlucky but he needs to keep control.
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Woakes has definitely put on a yard of pace. Good over there.
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Woakes can't be dropping short.
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In fact he's bowling a good line, but he's got to work on his length. This is a great batting pitch now.
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Ask and you shall receive.
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Watson 50 looking dangerous, hopefully he'll do his normal thing.
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Watson will go after the spinners - interesting passage of play now
Bit of a poor mans peiterson when in this form.
Kerrigan and woakes both have looked well short at this level so far - poor bowling. Maybe give root a go.
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Watson is hammering the bowling at the moment, we need control.
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Kerrigan is getting absolutely hammered.
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This Is a good day for monty !
Team selection backfiring - both debutants look way out of their depth .
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That was an awful over.
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Right chaps I'm off for a week, so enjoy and hope England come back a bit!
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Great session at the oval for monty and he's not even there.
Enjoy Tunisia pwa :)
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This is the issue with the oft repeated call to give x young player and y young player a go, it's quite possible they'll get taken to the cleaners.
I'm as guilty of it as anyone, but it does illustrate that the squad depth isn't as deep as we might have thought.
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What we saying then? All out by tea?
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350/375 on this wicket.
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Clarke gone! Knock over the big Ken doll at the other end and it's game on.
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Woakes seems to have overcome his nerves. He's bowling a much tighter line.
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This is the issue with the oft repeated call to give x young player and y young player a go, it's quite possible they'll get taken to the cleaners.
I'm as guilty of it as anyone, but it does illustrate that the squad depth isn't as deep as we might have thought.
In fairness, Monty is clearly a much better bowler than Kerrigan, and would be easily ahead of him if not for personal issues. Tredwell also looks a far better spinner.
Finn, Onions and Tremlett are all much better bowlers than Woakes, so the depth in the bowling is definitely strong, its just odd selection from England
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350/375 on this wicket.
I think that would be a result for England. There's very little spin and nothing happening at all for the seamers.
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Regardless of nerves, Kerrigan just doesn't look like an International bowler. His slow walk up to the wicket and quite roundarm action means he's not going to get much spin
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I really don't like this selection from England. I'd much prefer us to be ruthless and pick Finn or Tremlett and go all out to win the match, rather than picking two players to merely see what they can do.
We now have effectively a 3 man bowling attack.
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I really don't like this selection from England. I'd much prefer us to be ruthless and pick Finn or Tremlett and go all out to win the match, rather than picking two players to merely see what they can do.
We now have effectively a 3 man bowling attack.
The Aussies will not take 20 english wickets here , Lyon is not a good enough spinner - already at this stage i would fancy a draw to be the result .
If England get the Aussies out for less than 300 England win - over 300 draw.
Woakes and Kerrigan are not good enough at this level in my view - tremlett and monty much better quality.
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I really don't like this selection from England. I'd much prefer us to be ruthless and pick Finn or Tremlett and go all out to win the match, rather than picking two players to merely see what they can do.
We now have effectively a 3 man bowling attack.
The Aussies will not take 20 english wickets here , Lyon is not a good enough spinner - already at this stage i would fancy a draw to be the result .
If England get the Aussies out for less than 300 England win - over 300 draw.
Woakes and Kerrigan are not good enough at this level in my view - tremlett and monty much better quality.
Its the mindset from England that's worrying though. Can you imagine the Aussies of the late nineties/early 2000's picking two players for the last game of a won series to see what they could do?
They just appear to be going through the motions at the moment
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I really don't like this selection from England. I'd much prefer us to be ruthless and pick Finn or Tremlett and go all out to win the match, rather than picking two players to merely see what they can do.
We now have effectively a 3 man bowling attack.
The Aussies will not take 20 english wickets here , Lyon is not a good enough spinner - already at this stage i would fancy a draw to be the result .
If England get the Aussies out for less than 300 England win - over 300 draw.
Woakes and Kerrigan are not good enough at this level in my view - tremlett and monty much better quality.
Its the mindset from England that's worrying though. Can you imagine the Aussies of the late nineties/early 2000's picking two players for the last game of a won series to see what they could do?
They just appear to be going through the motions at the moment
I agree, should really be rubbing the Aussie noses in it - lacking the killer touch of the great teams .
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Well that's Australia's day, but not by much considering how easily the pitch has played. England can point to the policy of dry pitches having worked, but it has alienated our high quality seam bowlers at times this series.
I've thought for a long time that Woakes is not an international cricketer, and he's shown nothing today to suggest otherwise. He may have added a little pace, but not one of his balls went 1cm of the straight. As a bowler he looks as placid as Watson at this level, but not as economical.
Kerrigan was obviously shitting himself, but he doesn't look to have the action of a quality spinner. I think the selectors need to be a little wary of picking players based on 2nd division form. There's quite clearly a sizeable gap now between the divisions. Panesar really needs to sort himself out, as the back up spinners beyond him don't look test class.
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Was Tredwell injured?
With his form on the sub continent and in ODI's I'd have thought he'd have been next cab off the rank.
It's a shame that Ajmal Shahzad is out of the picture too, the kind of bowler who can get something out of drier pitches with a bit of reverse swing. Plenty of aggression too. It looked a bit too sedate out there for long stretches without the opening bowlers. Watson hasn't looked in too much trouble. Even a shithouse like Smith has looked like a test batsmen at times. But Shahzad has been released by Yorkshire recently, so his star seems to be on the wane.
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Looks a nailed on draw this game - the Aussies wont bowl us out twice on this wicket with Nathan Lyon their best hope of wickets but a pretty average spinner .
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Siddle b Anderson 23
320-5
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Rubbish review by Prior
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389-6
Haddin b a bear.......Trott though not Woakes
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Woakes takes his first wicket a catch taken by Trott.
James Faulkner ct for 23.
He is bowling much better today....may not be as threatening as i thought but speeds up to 86+ mph, bowled more maidens than any other bowler and economy only bettered by Swann and Anderson which isnt a surprise i suppose. The other debutant has NOT been given the ball at all today.
425 - 7 now
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Being smashed to all corners of the ground now. Could be a dodgy hour or so for our batsmen this evening if they declare soon.
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492-9 Declared
Could be dodgy hour indeed
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I think we'll be two wickets down by close of play. I think the decision to throw Woakes and Kerrigan in shows that mentally the team aren't taking this test match too seriously - I think that will translate in to a poor batting display (like it arguably translated in to a poor bowling display).
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I think we'll be two wickets down by close of play. I think the decision to throw Woakes and Kerrigan in shows that mentally the team aren't taking this test match too seriously - I think that will translate in to a poor batting display (like it arguably translated in to a poor bowling display).
To be fair I thought Anderson bowled exceptionally well considering the conditions. Broad and Swann have done all right also.
What doesn't help on an ideal batting deck is having 40% of your bowling attack clearly not good enough for international cricket. I hate to say it as a big bears fan, but Woakes just isn't good enough. I know its two different forms of the game, but his performances in the ODI's have been so far below an acceptable standard that it should be clear to the selectors he isn't of the quality required.
As far as the batting goes it will all depend on mindset. If they are willing to knuckle down and treat the innings with the usual test match focus, then theres no reason why a no of the players can't get big scores. Start being complacent with the series won and then they may get beat.
They should take it seriously, individual test matches count towards the rankings
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Happy days - safely through to the close without needing to introduce a night watchman.
Sounds like the Aussie bowling was pretty shambolic in that session. Hopefully they'll do the same tomorrow and we can be well on our way to a first innings lead!!!
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Very heavy rain for most of Saturday in London - bat through today and we will still be in our 1st innings on the final day of the test - nailed on draw .
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I think we really need to dominate the rest of this test. Give the Aussies the tiniest bit of hope and they will capitalise on it.
The next test that we play will be in Brisbane in November. The home series has been closer than a 3-0/4-0/3-1 score line suggests. We could struggle down under and cannot afford to bat so poorly as a unit again.
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Run rate terrible as usual.
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Really negative batting by England - giving the Aussies the impetus here, so many players in our team have under performed this series and yet we are still going to win 3-0.
Bad sign for the Aussies is that England have been so below par and are still cruising 3-0 .
This pitch is poor for test cricket , nothing for the bowlers and too easy for batting - pieterson never looks good just hanging around at the crease , needs to play his natural game.
The only test England have played really well was lords - strange series.
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I really don't like way England waste time in test matches - poor stuff and we should be above those sort of things - cook needs to really be more positive as a captain down under.
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Light dodgy at the oval- England will be more than happy to leave the field - with torrential rain tomorrow its pretty much comfortable draw from here.
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Woakes with a big challenge here. Not sure he is a number six in county cricket let alone at test level.
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The run rate has been my issue with England all summer. Lots of people complaining about not scoring 400, but that's focusing on the symptom, we're regularly batting for well over a hundred overs but too often at a rate of 2.7-2.8 Get that up to the numbers we were posting 18months ago (which was closer to 3.5) and the whole game changes.
It coincides with Gooch coming in and he really should be on his way out before we make the return trip, the only players in the top 7 who have delivered with any consistency since Gooch joined up are Bell and to a lesser extent Prior (he was great last year, but his form has collapsed now). I definitely think the changes that need to come are at the coaching level rather than the players; kerrigan and woakes aside (who are only in because the series is dead and they're picked to get some experience) only Bairstow hasn't repeatedly shown he is good enough to feature for a top test side and he is very promising and has shown flashes of being able to step up.
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Really negative batting by England - giving the Aussies the impetus here, so many players in our team have under performed this series and yet we are still going to win 3-0.
Bad sign for the Aussies is that England have been so below par and are still cruising 3-0 .
This pitch is poor for test cricket , nothing for the bowlers and too easy for batting - pieterson never looks good just hanging around at the crease , needs to play his natural game.
The only test England have played really well was lords - strange series.
Your right it has been a strange series. We played well at Lords, had problems with our batting first up at Trent Bridge as well as getting the last Aussie wicket in each innings. At Durham we came back well after an awful first day but the Aussies could of won if they kept their heads in the last innings. At Old Trafford the team that won the toss couldn't lose the game, same here at the Oval.
The Aussies won the toss on both occassions when you knew batting first was a cert. We have been 30 odd for 3 several times and somehow got out of it. We have been behind the game plenty of times and the Australians have shot themselves in the foot. England scoring rate is on par with the Boycott/Tavare school of scoreboard operator suicide. I've not really enjoyed it for the most part.
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I certainly feel sorry for those shelling out to go to the Oval today. A slow pitch and negative dull batting conspired to make it an incredibly tedious days viewing
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I certainly feel sorry for those shelling out to go to the Oval today. A slow pitch and negative dull batting conspired to make it an incredibly tedious days viewing
Rarely have i switched over during an ashes test match , dull uninspiring stuff and very boing to watch .
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/p480x480/1003198_10151813358114904_2017317588_n.jpg)
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Why are England still batting? Couldn't Cook and Clark have contrived to get a result one way or another here to make it actually worth watching for the paying public?
England could've declared and Australia could've agreed not to enforce the follow on, and then forfeited their second innings.
Then England would need 240 odd to win, Australia would need 10 wickets to win... and we'd have an exciting finish.
Much better than this borefest.
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Why are England still batting? Couldn't Cook and Clark have contrived to get a result one way or another here to make it actually worth watching for the paying public?
England could've declared and Australia could've agreed not to enforce the follow on, and then forfeited their second innings.
Then England would need 240 odd to win, Australia would need 10 wickets to win... and we'd have an exciting finish.
Much better than this borefest.
No- I'd rather take the 3-0 win than turn it into a kind of one day game , roll on 5-30!
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Did anyone see that vile looking bloke in the crowd refuse to throw the ball back to the Aussie fielder at the boundary? What a twat.
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Hello from Iran. What's happening in the cricket? I'm struggling to get coherent updates from cricinfo or Auntie Beeb. Cheers.
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Australia lead by 158 runs with 9 2nd Innings wickets remaining
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Cheers. I know we lost all of yesterday, so play will end about 7ish tonight? And what's the forecast for tomorrow?
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No wont go that late probably finish about 6.00ish as a draw, this is the last day
Australia lead by 164 runs with 8 wickets remaining now
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Cheers. I know we lost all of yesterday, so play will end about 7ish tonight? And what's the forecast for tomorrow?
Even if tomorrow's forecast is glorious I'm not sure they'll let the match go in to a sixth day!!!
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Why are England still batting? Couldn't Cook and Clark have contrived to get a result one way or another here to make it actually worth watching for the paying public?
England could've declared and Australia could've agreed not to enforce the follow on, and then forfeited their second innings.
Then England would need 240 odd to win, Australia would need 10 wickets to win... and we'd have an exciting finish.
Much better than this borefest.
No- I'd rather take the 3-0 win than turn it into a kind of one day game , roll on 5-30!
Agreed, don't give them a sniff. We worked hard to avoid the follow on, we don't want to throw it away for the sake of a contrived result that could give them a lift ahead ahead of the winter series.
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52/3 now convicts lead by 167
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Whatever target they set us i think we will just bat out the remaining overs and take the 3-0 win before the party begins.
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67/4 they lead by 182
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83/5 they lead by 198
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85/6 they lead by 200
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Its Tea and Australia's lead is now 226 with 44 overs left in the day
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Australia have declared. England need 227 from 44 overs
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No wont go that late probably finish about 6.00ish as a draw, this is the last day
Australia lead by 164 runs with 8 wickets remaining now
Thanks, mate. I appear to have lost a day somewhere. Usually, that's alcohol related! So it's set fair. Will we see 44 overs?
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No wont go that late probably finish about 6.00ish as a draw, this is the last day
Australia lead by 164 runs with 8 wickets remaining now
Thanks, mate. I appear to have lost a day somewhere. Usually, that's alcohol related! So it's set fair. Will we see 44 overs?
I suspect we will see most of them yes, weather is fine
Eng now 16/0 off 3.1 overs
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22/1
England require another 205 runs with 9 wickets remaining
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86/2 need 141 from 24 overs - enter kp!
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Real chance to win this. Impossible to lose 8 wickets in 24 overs, and Pietersen, Bell and Prior all capable of scoring over 6 an over.
If they wuss out of this ill be mightily pissed off.
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Real chance to win this. Impossible to lose 8 wickets in 24 overs, and Pietersen, Bell and Prior all capable of scoring over 6 an over.
If they wuss out of this ill be mightily pissed off.
There's more chance of them really going for it now that Cook's out. He's not the most attacking or innovative of captains.
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Trott needs to stay in and let the other batsmen play their shots , kp and bell could easily guide us to glory.
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If we dont win this we want shooting!!!
I do hope though that our 'Man of the series' Ian Bell is at the wicket to hit the winning runs in a history making 4-0 series win.
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163/3 need 64 off 10 overs - kp out for 62
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Come on Trott stop batting like a bellend
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Come on Trott stop batting like a bellend
Too late
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come on the warwick boys
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A run a ball needed - didn't see this happening this morning.
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Brave from clarke
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This is tense
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The umpires will definitely go off for bad light.
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And that's that.
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What an absolute joke.
Are the ICC actually trying to put fans off cricket?
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Absolute farce- where is the danger ? Disgusting way to end series !
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I suppose that once the call is made (bad light setting) then it counts no mattet what.
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Feel sorry for the paying public.
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It's a good job there wasn't much riding on the game, there surely has to be room for some common sense in a situation like this.
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Feel sorry for the paying public.
Exactly. You've got a stadium full of people who've paid a minimum of £80 each and that's an absolute kick in the nuts for them all.
The ICC need to sort themselves out.
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It's almost as if the ICC want to disillusion the spectators. The teams put on a great day out of nothing, only to see it ripped away by the ridiculous parameters the ICC set. In a way its fitting the series should end with the umpires being ******. They've been an absolute disgrace all series.
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It's a good job there wasn't much riding on the game, there surely has to be room for some common sense in a situation like this.
Agreed.
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think Bell will get man of the series for England. Not sure about the Aussie man of the series.
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So what happened to Warnes crap about the Aussies being brave and not afraid to lose - they were begging to go off - pathetic!
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It's a good job there wasn't much riding on the game, there surely has to be room for some common sense in a situation like this.
Agreed.
That's the thing with test cricket, there is no common sense. I think the Aussies deserved the draw for making a game of it. Good stuff all round.
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It's a good job there wasn't much riding on the game, there surely has to be room for some common sense in a situation like this.
Agreed.
That's the thing with test cricket, there is no common sense. I think the Aussies deserved the draw for making a game of it. Good stuff all round.
Nah,dont go for a win and start crying when it looks like you are gonna lose.
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Don't play for a draw until you get a sniff of a win, then moan that the light goes.
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Interesting comments from Flower after the game when asked about rumours that this is last match in charge. "We'll see. Now is not the time to talk about it," or words to that effect.
Could be something and nothing, but if he was certain of staying why add fuel to the fire.
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Don't play for a draw until you get a sniff of a win, then moan that the light goes.
We didn't need to go for the win but did,Clarke made himself look like a bit of a prick
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Don't play for a draw until you get a sniff of a win, then moan that the light goes.
We didn't need to go for the win but did,Clarke made himself look like a bit of a prick
Clarke would've looked a bigger prick if they'd lost after declaring twice.
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Don't play for a draw until you get a sniff of a win, then moan that the light goes.
We didn't need to go for the win but did,Clarke made himself look like a bit of a prick
Clarke would've looked a bigger prick if they'd lost after declaring twice.
He looked like a prick when he was begging the umpires to go off and arguing with them.............
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Don't play for a draw until you get a sniff of a win, then moan that the light goes.
We didn't need to go for the win but did,Clarke made himself look like a bit of a prick
Clarke would've looked a bigger prick if they'd lost after declaring twice.
He looked like a prick when he was begging the umpires to go off and arguing with them.............
He was brave and made a game of it. Give him some credit.
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Don't play for a draw until you get a sniff of a win, then moan that the light goes.
We didn't need to go for the win but did,Clarke made himself look like a bit of a prick
Clarke would've looked a bigger prick if they'd lost after declaring twice.
He looked like a prick when he was begging the umpires to go off and arguing with them.............
He was brave and made a game of it. Give him some credit.
He as a captain had a good series, positive bowling changes, good field settings as for today he was positive but only due to the fact that he was desperate to get a bit of momenteum into the winter
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Clarke did look a bit of a nob arguing with the umpires, but then I'm sure any captain would have done exactly the same in the circumstances.
The anger should be directed at the ICC, who despite their declarations of ensuring that test cricket remains the pinnacle, obviously couldn't give a stuff about it. It should be extremely embarrassing for them that its in their rules that you can go off for bad light with high quality floodlights on.
Also, why was it one of England's sub fielders who brought the lightmeter onto the field? What the hell were they playing at?
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Seems pretty poor to me that floodlights are at all pretty much the major venues now and you still get these bad light issues all for the stake of what an extra 10 minutes England needed to get the 20 odd runs to win the game?
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Don't play for a draw until you get a sniff of a win, then moan that the light goes.
We didn't need to go for the win but did,Clarke made himself look like a bit of a prick
Clarke would've looked a bigger prick if they'd lost after declaring twice.
He looked like a prick when he was begging the umpires to go off and arguing with them.............
He was brave and made a game of it. Give him some credit.
Not brave enough to field with the floodlights on. He lost any credit with his tantrum.
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Clarke did look a bit of a nob arguing with the umpires, but then I'm sure any captain would have done exactly the same in the circumstances.
The anger should be directed at the ICC, who despite their declarations of ensuring that test cricket remains the pinnacle, obviously couldn't give a stuff about it. It should be extremely embarrassing for them that its in their rules that you can go off for bad light with high quality floodlights on.
Also, why was it one of England's sub fielders who brought the lightmeter onto the field? What the hell were they playing at?
I agree totally about the ICC. It's not about entertainment this is test cricket. It will be discussed at the next committee meeting.
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Also, I know the umpires are only following the ridiculous regulations the ICC set, but they don't help themselves walking as slowly as they possibly can to get together to chat about the light for an eternity, then walking as slowly as they possibly can back to their mark.
Most umpires give the impression they can't wait to get of the field
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The umpires were generally poor all series on loads of issues
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Don't play for a draw until you get a sniff of a win, then moan that the light goes.
We didn't need to go for the win but did,Clarke made himself look like a bit of a prick
Clarke would've looked a bigger prick if they'd lost after declaring twice.
He looked like a prick when he was begging the umpires to go off and arguing with them.............
He was brave and made a game of it. Give him some credit.
Not brave enough to field with the floodlights on. He lost any credit with his tantrum.
Old Trafford was ok though.
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Fair play to Clarke for setting up a tense final session. Regardless of his wanting to gather momentum going into the reverse series, Clarke set up the chance of a positive result and he deserves praise for that. He didn't look a knob by moaning at the umpires when the light was bad, he did exactly what any captain would do in the same situation. If the situation had been reversed then we'd have been wasting time and sending sub fielders on with drinks etc.
A very strange series, we haven't played well but still managed to win 3-0. The series in Oz will be a lot closer.
The Aussie bowlers executed their plans really well and stopped Cook, Trott and Prior from scoring. Bell showed what a class act he is and if you take his runs out of the equation then you have a different result. If the Aussie batsmen had turned up earlier in the series then things would have been interesting.
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People say the series will be much closer in Australia but I'm not so sure - the faster pitches and outfield could see our batsmen score quickly and find their form , cook, trott and even kp haven't had that great a series , also our pace attack with Anderson, Finn, tremlett will come into their own on the aussie wickets - i still feel we will win comfortably 3-1
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Don't play for a draw until you get a sniff of a win, then moan that the light goes.
We didn't need to go for the win but did,Clarke made himself look like a bit of a prick
Clarke would've looked a bigger prick if they'd lost after declaring twice.
He looked like a prick when he was begging the umpires to go off and arguing with them.............
He was brave and made a game of it. Give him some credit.
Not brave enough to field with the floodlights on. He lost any credit with his tantrum.
Old Trafford was ok though.
You have forgotten the 2nd test at Lords in 1886.
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Don't play for a draw until you get a sniff of a win, then moan that the light goes.
We didn't need to go for the win but did,Clarke made himself look like a bit of a prick
Clarke would've looked a bigger prick if they'd lost after declaring twice.
He looked like a prick when he was begging the umpires to go off and arguing with them.............
He was brave and made a game of it. Give him some credit.
Not brave enough to field with the floodlights on. He lost any credit with his tantrum.
Old Trafford was ok though.
You have forgotten the 2nd test at Lords in 1886.
I wondered who'd be the first to bring that up!
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Don't play for a draw until you get a sniff of a win, then moan that the light goes.
We didn't need to go for the win but did,Clarke made himself look like a bit of a prick
Clarke would've looked a bigger prick if they'd lost after declaring twice.
He looked like a prick when he was begging the umpires to go off and arguing with them.............
He was brave and made a game of it. Give him some credit.
Not brave enough to field with the floodlights on. He lost any credit with his tantrum.
Old Trafford was ok though.
You have forgotten the 2nd test at Lords in 1886.
No I haven't. I thought Johnny Briggs was sensational, but I don't see the relevance other than the series 3-0 result.
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People say the series will be much closer in Australia but I'm not so sure - the faster pitches and outfield could see our batsmen score quickly and find their form , cook, trott and even kp haven't had that great a series , also our pace attack with Anderson, Finn, tremlett will come into their own on the aussie wickets - i still feel we will win comfortably 3-1
I think if the Aussie bowlers execute their plans again then Cook, Trott & Prior will struggle for runs again so it will be much closer.
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Aussie conditions will suit our pace bowlers just as much as theirs - I'd take out top 6 batsmen to out score them over the series comfortably- still worried about number 6 though , i think root looked the part in that role more than Bairstow .
I'd be inclined to take Compton on tour as well .
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Graeme Swann and Jimmy Anderson on Radio 5 Now talking about the Ashes.
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Fair play to Clarke for setting up a tense final session. Regardless of his wanting to gather momentum going into the reverse series, Clarke set up the chance of a positive result and he deserves praise for that. He didn't look a knob by moaning at the umpires when the light was bad, he did exactly what any captain would do in the same situation. If the situation had been reversed then we'd have been wasting time and sending sub fielders on with drinks etc.
A very strange series, we haven't played well but still managed to win 3-0. The series in Oz will be a lot closer.
The Aussie bowlers executed their plans really well and stopped Cook, Trott and Prior from scoring. Bell showed what a class act he is and if you take his runs out of the equation then you have a different result. If the Aussie batsmen had turned up earlier in the series then things would have been interesting.
Lot of ifs there VFL.
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Great picture of Ian Bell:
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3438243,00.html
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Rant alert.
So, in another demonstration that cricket is doing its best to disenfranchise the people who pay the players wages, the heart has been ripped out of the ODI side for the series next month. Five major players (Cook, Anderson, Swann, Broad, Bell) have been taken out of the side and replaced with players most fans won't have heard of. Apparently they need a rest!!!
My £60 ticket for Edgbaston (not to mention the vast amount I'll spend there with the £4 pints and the £6/£7 fast food meals) is looking a lot less like value for money now it's almost an England Lions team.
And the ECB have managed this screw up without the ICC's 'support'!
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£5 quid for a bastard pasty on Sunday at the Oval.
What a farce. When will they realise that cricket isn't played for the benefit of the administrators and their daft rules but for the paying punters. We'd been there for 8 hours on Sunday - another 20 facking minutes is all it would have taken. Lucky they didn't have a riot on their hands, I've never known cricket fans to be so annoyed. Some of them were tut-tutting like there was no tomorrow...
And I give Clarke no credit for his double declaration either. As soon as he realised he'd fucked it up he couldn't wait to spoil the party.
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Fantastic to win the Ashes, but I do think we have some issues to address. It wasn't a strong Aussie side and they put on the strongest team batting displays when they clicked. We need to bat a lot better as unit, and Woakes and Kerrigan in particular showed they're not ready to step up.
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Fantastic to win the Ashes, but I do think we have some issues to address. It wasn't a strong Aussie side and they put on the strongest team batting displays when they clicked. We need to bat a lot better as unit, and Woakes and Kerrigan in particular showed they're not ready to step up.
Back from Tunisia already? Agree we were well below best but still won 3-0 .
Pitches too prepared for swann - as holding says why not prepare pitched for your pace bowlers .
We will play better in Australia and win 3-1 i think - England were below par and still won 3-0 - that is not good for the Aussies.
Woakes and Kerrigan are not test class - agreed .
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Fantastic to win the Ashes, but I do think we have some issues to address. It wasn't a strong Aussie side and they put on the strongest team batting displays when they clicked. We need to bat a lot better as unit, and Woakes and Kerrigan in particular showed they're not ready to step up.
Back from Tunisia already? Agree we were well below best but still won 3-0 .
Pitches too prepared for swann - as holding says why not prepare pitched for your pace bowlers .
We will play better in Australia and win 3-1 i think - England were below par and still won 3-0 - that is not good for the Aussies.
Woakes and Kerrigan are not test class - agreed .
I don't think Woakes is all that far away from giving us a bowling option at 6, he'll tour with the the lions (as will kerrigan) but I wouldn't be surprised if we see him in the main squad at some point. Kerrigan choked but we need to persevere, he's the top english spinner this summer in the counties so there's some ability he just wasn't mentally prepared for the ashes.
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The women's team have regained their Ashes too.
I've watched some of the games which have been played at a good standard. I just wish the outfits were a little more revealing!!
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I wouldn't disgard Woakes and Kerrigan forever, but they're not at it at the moment. Woakes is going to have to contribute significantly with the bat if he's going to be an option.
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I wouldn't disgard Woakes and Kerrigan forever, but they're not at it at the moment. Woakes is going to have to contribute significantly with the bat if he's going to be an option.
I know that Woakes is highly thought of - and i will say that it will not surprise me in the least if he makes the Ashes squad, he is far from a shoe in but i reckon he has a good outside chance. I imagine Kerrigan will be a certainty for the Lions squad as will Woakes if he doesnt get in squad. Woakes temperament will be of great assistance to his selection not just his ability.
England won toss and are bowling in T20
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I'm very disappointed Carberry isn't playing tonight.
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Finn playing though, so I hope he gets some form back.
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Just the week away Eastie and it was very enjoyable other than the flight delay!
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I see Ryan Harris has been ruled out for a couple of months again. The guy would be one of the best bowlers in the world if he wasn't made of paper.
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I see Ryan Harris has been ruled out for a couple of months again. The guy would be one of the best bowlers in the world if he wasn't made of paper.
Completely agree, he's an excellent bowler. I'm be curious to watch Ahmed bowl tonight.
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Flicked on the BBC site to check the team - nice to see a comment already slating Dernbach before they're even on the pitch. I know he's had some tough times but the stick he gets is too much as far as I'm concerned.
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I may catch the last hour of the cricket , i have a deal with mrs east that having hogged the remote for the ashes that she has the soaps after 7pm unless theres a big footy game on - i don't mind too much because emmerdale and corrie are full of fit babes ;)
Glad you enjoyed your hols pwa, i have 5 weeks to wait now before minorca.
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Warner gone, crazy shot with the bat going further than the ball.
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really poor from Finn, making the same mistakes as he did in nottingham.
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Finch is hammering us.
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This is going to have to be some chase, shocking fielding by Lumb there.
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This is a batting deck, but it's pretty poor from England at the moment. Root is getting absolutely smashed.
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27 off one Root over, oh dear.
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Not to worry - let them have the crumbs - we have devoured the main course !
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Win them all, that's the way to go. This is some innings from Finch.
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To be honest one day cricket doesn't float my boat - I'm very much a fan of the longer game.
Hence one reason why I won't bother going upstairs to watch until 9pm.
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Finch is absolutely killing us.
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Good to decision to bowl first. Our bowling has been fucking horrendous.
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Wonder if the Aussies will declare?
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You'd think that at some point there'd be no more snot to be pounded out of us. Amazing.
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156 insane innings, well played Finch. Appalling bowling, but brilliant batting.
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That over shows why Dernbach gets picked, when he gets it right he's a great T20 bowler, this game and his domestic season suggest he might have started to settle his line as well, which was always the problem.
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In fairness I can't take this form seriously. It's entertaining, but in no way a reflection of overall quality.
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I prefer French cricket.
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Carberry should play next game.
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Pretty poor batting this.
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Root nearly ate the ball, then. Ouch.
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This is pretty desperate, Morgan has been poor for a while.
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We're not going to get anywhere near them here but Root deserves a lot of credit for a very good batting performance after taking a nasty one to the grill.
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99 times out of a 100 Joe Root wins us the game with that knock so the positives are good batting from Root, Bopara and Buttler and good bowling from Dernbach, the rest of the bowlers will be very upset with themselves and Finch put in one of the best T20 innings of all time.
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Root played excellently, it was the bowling that let us down.
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Watching the women's game this pitch looks very slow, I don't think we'll be seeing 2 sides scoring 200+ again, 150 will be a decent return on this.
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Watching the women's game this pitch looks very slow, I don't think we'll be seeing 2 sides scoring 200+ again, 150 will be a decent return on this.
I think Alex Hales making a mockery of your prediction 114 - 1 12th over....fair play to him and Lumb.
Mind you i did agree with you!!!!
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Watching the women's game this pitch looks very slow, I don't think we'll be seeing 2 sides scoring 200+ again, 150 will be a decent return on this.
I think Alex Hales making a mockery of your prediction 114 - 1 12th over....fair play to him and Lumb.
Mind you i did agree with you!!!!
Looks like they've had a roller on the pitch, there was a lot of dust kicking up earlier and it's gone now but I'm feeling a bit silly about that now... fair play to hales and lumb though.
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Watching the Australian reply this is more what I expected to see on this pitch.
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148 - 8 game over 48 off 15 ball req'd.
Listening to Yorks - Durham now - Durham only need 32 off about 17 overs
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Dernbach has bowled really nicely again, nice to see him performing to his potential eventually, I've been a fan of him for a while as his slower ball is a beauty.
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Dernbach has bowled really nicely again, nice to see him performing to his potential eventually, I've been a fan of him for a while as his slower ball is a beauty.
I personally think 20/20 is his game at international level and that he is not suited to longer forms of the game. His variety of deliveries are more effective against batsmen really looking to attack him.
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No test match at Edgbaston again next year.Its only India not like it would sell out 5 times over.
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I love the fact there's a five match test series against India next summer as it shows that at least the ECB want to preserve test cricket.
But for Edgbaston to again miss out on a test is a disgrace
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I love the fact there's a five match test series against India next summer as it shows that at least the ECB want to preserve test cricket.
But for Edgbaston to again miss out on a test is a disgrace
First time since 1959 that we play 5 test against them.Regarding Edgbaston they have a massive loan to pay off.The closed bid system for test matches stinks.
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I love the fact there's a five match test series against India next summer as it shows that at least the ECB want to preserve test cricket.
But for Edgbaston to again miss out on a test is a disgrace
First time since 1959 that we play 5 test against them.Regarding Edgbaston they have a massive loan to pay off.The closed bid system for test matches stinks.
Funny how Trent Bridge and Old Trafford have tests again in the main series next summer and Edgbaston hasn't even got one against Sri Lanka. Do both series really need a Lord's test and why does The Oval always automatically get a test? I do wonder why Edgbaston keeps getting overlooked (especially as England have a decent record there)- does the fact that it holds 20/20 finals day go against it or does someone have a particular issue?
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I love the fact there's a five match test series against India next summer as it shows that at least the ECB want to preserve test cricket.
But for Edgbaston to again miss out on a test is a disgrace
First time since 1959 that we play 5 test against them.Regarding Edgbaston they have a massive loan to pay off.The closed bid system for test matches stinks.
Funny how Trent Bridge and Old Trafford have tests again in the main series next summer and Edgbaston hasn't even got one against Sri Lanka. Do both series really need a Lord's test and why does The Oval always automatically get a test? I do wonder why Edgbaston keeps getting overlooked (especially as England have a decent record there)- does the fact that it holds 20/20 finals day go against it or does someone have a particular issue?
London sells out for 4 days a test,Southampton is becoming the new 3rd London test.Old Trafford has struggled to sell tickets for years.That's the one I don't understand.I did hear rumours that the council help them with underwriting if they lose money which means they can bid more.
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I find it particularly ridiculous given that it looks likely that there will be 4 bears in the squads (test and ODI), so providing a 5th of the side and don't even get a test as 'compensation'.
Nice to see Rankin in the wickets early on, even if the 2nd was a strange one, will do him a lot of good to know he can deliver for England.
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Totally agree - i just cannot believe that we do not have a test against India which would have been a guaranteed sell out. If it's all down to the sealed bid process then Peter Povey needs to get his finger out, he cuts costs to the bare minimum at Edgbaston and members are treated with complete disdain as he curry's favour with the corporate sponsors. Well he is obviously doing something rather badly to keep missing out on the lucrative test match income. I just wish he would fukc off and get a cricket person back in charge.....that may be the problem the fact that he isn't a cricket man.
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Ireland 99-3
N. O'Brian b Tredwell 26
Porterfield 52 (65)
21.2 overs
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Ireland 121-4 26.2 Overs
Wilson LBW Tredwell 2 (4)
Porterfield 68 (92)
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Totally agree - i just cannot believe that we do not have a test against India which would have been a guaranteed sell out. If it's all down to the sealed bid process then Peter Povey needs to get his finger out, he cuts costs to the bare minimum at Edgbaston and members are treated with complete disdain as he curry's favour with the corporate sponsors. Well he is obviously doing something rather badly to keep missing out on the lucrative test match income. I just wish he would fukc off and get a cricket person back in charge.....that may be the problem the fact that he isn't a cricket man.
see atched link - http://www.ecb.co.uk/ecb/about-ecb/media-releases/eng,316007,EN.html - apologies if there is a shorter way of putting this in.
Under the Major Matches Group decision in 2011 which allocated tests for 2013-2016 Warwick hasn't actually done too badly but is a bit back-ended - Ii still don't like Povey though and have not renewed my membership as a result of some of his decisions.
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Totally agree - i just cannot believe that we do not have a test against India which would have been a guaranteed sell out. If it's all down to the sealed bid process then Peter Povey needs to get his finger out, he cuts costs to the bare minimum at Edgbaston and members are treated with complete disdain as he curry's favour with the corporate sponsors. Well he is obviously doing something rather badly to keep missing out on the lucrative test match income. I just wish he would fukc off and get a cricket person back in charge.....that may be the problem the fact that he isn't a cricket man.
see atched link - http://www.ecb.co.uk/ecb/about-ecb/media-releases/eng,316007,EN.html - apologies if there is a shorter way of putting this in.
Under the Major Matches Group decision in 2011 which allocated tests for 2013-2016 Warwick hasn't actually done too badly but is a bit back-ended - Ii still don't like Povey though and have not renewed my membership as a result of some of his decisions.
The biggest problem is that Lords get a test in every series, a test every summer I can live with but in years were we have 2 touring sides giving lords 2 test as well as various finals and ODIs is too much, especially when the Oval gets more than it's fair share as well. Pakistan and India tours in particular should always play in Birmingham as they will always sell out and, more importantly, they're always exciting test matches.
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To be honest, I think there should be a Lords test in every home series. It's the home of the game and I think that all touring players should have the opportunity to play there. Having been there myself, it really is a wonderful place.
What gets me though is that counties like Warwickshire have spent an absolute fortune developing the ground, yet have to bid again for the right to stage a match. I think there should be a nucleus of five test grounds, which would be Lords, Oval, Trent Bridge, Edgbaston and Old Trafford.
I think the other grounds, such as Durham, Hampshire and Cardiff should get preference in the shorter formats.
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Stokes could potentially be the answer to our number 6 issues if he continues to develop. He's a counter attacking batsmen who can bowl mid to late 80s and is excellent in the field.
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Ireland 224-6 45.2
Porterfield b Rankin 112 (142)
Rankin 3 - 40
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Ireland 229-7
Mooney LBW Rankin 27 (45)
Rankin 4 - 46 off 9
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It sounds like we've been pretty ropey here.
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269-7 50 overs
Only 2 bowlers come out with any credit Rankin(4-46) and Tredwell (2-33) should have played 2 spinners. Easy in hindsight to say that but there was too much pressure on the likes of Bopara and Wright.
Bowling figures were:
Finn 10 1 44 0
Rankin 9 1 46 4
Bopara 7 0 41 1
Stokes 10 0 51 0
Tredwell 10 0 35 2
Wright 3 0 21 0
Carberry 1 0 12 0
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We were definitely a bowler short here, Stokes did ok with his 10 but he should have been the 5th bowler, with Ravi or Wright as an option. I guess they want to see if they could trust him to bowl economically as an all-rounder, if you're going to experiment agianst Ireland is probably better than against the aussies.
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England 12-1 4 overs
Carberry LBW Johnson 10
Wright 1 (7)
Taylor 1 (4)
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England 25-2
Wright B Murtagh 5 (20)- Chopped on
Taylor 8
Ballance in
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England 25-2
Wright B Murtagh 5 (20)- Chopped on
Taylor 8
Ballance in
And out again
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England 25-3
Ballance Ct Wilson b Murtagh 0 (2)
Taylor still 8
Morgan in
Dear oh dear.....i wonder what those who have clamoured for Ballance's inclusion will say now. Bad shot....didnt know whether to play it or not.
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This is embarrassing, to be honest this has been a shambolic performance from start to finish.
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48-4 14.5 Overs
Taylor b Murtagh 25 (42)
Morgan 6 (12)
Bopara in
Murtagh 3 - 22 8 overs
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This is embarrassing, to be honest this has been a shambolic performance from start to finish.
I should qualify 'finish' being at the time I posted!
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This is embarrassing, to be honest this has been a shambolic performance from start to finish.
Meh. We've sent the reserves out for a glorified friendly, I'm not that bothered about this. It was a good chance for some of the new and fringe lads to stake a claim which by and large they have failed to do so they can't whinge too much when they are left out of future squads.
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This is embarrassing, to be honest this has been a shambolic performance from start to finish.
Meh. We've sent the reserves out for a glorified friendly, I'm not that bothered about this. It was a good chance for some of the new and fringe lads to stake a claim which by and large they have failed to do so they can't whinge too much when they are left out of future squads.
The way Morgan and Bopara are going we may win this yet....will be difficult but a possibility.
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This is embarrassing, to be honest this has been a shambolic performance from start to finish.
Meh. We've sent the reserves out for a glorified friendly, I'm not that bothered about this. It was a good chance for some of the new and fringe lads to stake a claim which by and large they have failed to do so they can't whinge too much when they are left out of future squads.
Rankin deserves a game or 2 against australia, 4 wickets on debut is pretty handy, he was the only seamer who did anything today.
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A ton for Morgan against his home country.
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History was made today when a reciprocal wicket some time ago in an ODI Ed Joyce got Rankin out whilst having a bowl for England and Rankin batting for Ireland today the opposite has happened Rankin got Joyce but countries reversed!!!
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Oh ye of little of faith!!!!
A superb 226 5th wkt partnership Morgan 124 & Bopara 101 no...superb performances from both
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to be fair, that's a brilliant batting display from Morgan and Bopara, lots of 6s but none of them were brute strength, just lovely clean shots from the middle of the bat. Very impressive partnership.
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Fair play from Bopara and Morgan who were excellent.
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If Bopara and Morgan perform against Australia they've got a shot at the number 6 spot in the Ashes.
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After yesterday who would you be looking to get back into the side for the aussies?
I wasn't happy with the bowling, Tredwell and Rankin were fine, Finn is totally off form and Stokes isn't threatening enough to be 4th bowler. For the 5th bowler I'd spread the overs between Bopara and Root, who I'd bring in for Wright.
Looking at the squad list I'd go:
Carberry
Root
Trott
KP
Morgan
Bopara
Buttler
Jordan
Tredwell
Finn
Rankin
Tough on Stokes but Jordan looks a more dangerous bowler to me which means Stokes should be competing for 5 or 6, but that's against 2 guys who've just scored fantastic centuries in the biggest 5th wicket partnership of all time. I'd give Carberry 3-4 games before making a call on him, the nerves clearly got to him yesterday but he's the form opener in the counties so he deserves a run of games.
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Bloody hell I thought Rankin was younger than he is.
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He was 29 on 5th July.....how old did you think he was? He has been around a fair while hasn't he.
Been at Bears for 5 years now(2008) after 2 year spells at Middlesex then Derby.
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He was 29 on 5th July.....how old did you think he was? He has been around a fair while hasn't he.
Been at Bears for 5 years now(2008) after 2 year spells at Middlesex then Derby.
Don't know why but I always assumed he was younger.
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Durham have gone top of the County Championship, after demolishing Sussex. Warwickshire is my home county, but if they can't win it, I'll always go for Durham, as I go and watch them 4-5 times a year, living up here. I'll be really please, if they go on to lift the title, especially if they pip Yorkshire in doing so!
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Durham have gone top of the County Championship, after demolishing Sussex. Warwickshire is my home county, but if they can't win it, I'll always go for Durham, as I go and watch them 4-5 times a year, living up here. I'll be really please, if they go on to lift the title, especially if they pip Yorkshire in doing so!
Yes a good few points clear of Yorkshire now but beware a resurgent Derby who if they manage to beat Somerset tomorrow will be well up for their home game with Durham next Wednesday. If Derby lose Somerset game they may think all over and roll over for Durham. Durham also got to play Notts at home who can always be dangerous!!!!
But it is Durham's title to lose now i think. We Bears now have to re-group clear up all of these injuries and get focussed for next season. Jeetan Patel looks like signing up for another full season at Edgbaston which is pleasing as we currently don't have any top class spin options with Paul Best injured and Metters released.
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I reckon it's safe to say there won't be a ball bowled at Headingley today
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I reckon it's safe to say there won't be a ball bowled at Headingley today
This season is really fizzling out for me. I love cricket but can't get motivated for the one dayers this time which is not like me at all. I'm more interested in the Ashes down under which starts in less than 11 weeks.
Is anyone else feeling the same?
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I reckon it's safe to say there won't be a ball bowled at Headingley today
This season is really fizzling out for me. I love cricket but can't get motivated for the one dayers this time which is not like me at all. I'm more interested in the Ashes down under which starts in less than 11 weeks.
Is anyone else feeling the same?
Me. There are far too many one day matches, can anybody remember who won whatever the last one day series was?
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I reckon it's safe to say there won't be a ball bowled at Headingley today
This season is really fizzling out for me. I love cricket but can't get motivated for the one dayers this time which is not like me at all. I'm more interested in the Ashes down under which starts in less than 11 weeks.
Is anyone else feeling the same?
Me. There are far too many one day matches, can anybody remember who won whatever the last one day series was?
Cricket anorak alert!
The last one was the ICC Trophy when India beat England in the final at Edgbaston in June.
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I reckon it's safe to say there won't be a ball bowled at Headingley today
This season is really fizzling out for me. I love cricket but can't get motivated for the one dayers this time which is not like me at all. I'm more interested in the Ashes down under which starts in less than 11 weeks.
Is anyone else feeling the same?
Me. There are far too many one day matches, can anybody remember who won whatever the last one day series was?
Cricket anorak alert!
The last one was the ICC Trophy when India beat England in the final at Edgbaston in June.
*Pretends meeting a mate and shuffles off to the other side of the ground*
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I reckon it's safe to say there won't be a ball bowled at Headingley today
This season is really fizzling out for me. I love cricket but can't get motivated for the one dayers this time which is not like me at all. I'm more interested in the Ashes down under which starts in less than 11 weeks.
Is anyone else feeling the same?
Have to say I always find it a bit of a comedown, having 20/20 and One Dayers after the Ashes. Who really cares? It's nice to win the matches, but after the Ashes they pale into insignificance.
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3 of the last 5 ODI's have been washed out at Headingley.
Add to that it's not a particularly nice stadium and I don't really know why it's getting so much International cricket
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3 of the last 5 ODI's have been washed out at Headingley.
Add to that it's not a particularly nice stadium and I don't really know why it's getting so much International cricket
They keep bidding loads of money for it.......
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3 of the last 5 ODI's have been washed out at Headingley.
Add to that it's not a particularly nice stadium and I don't really know why it's getting so much International cricket
They keep bidding loads of money for it.......
Yeah I know, my point was more about the current system of match allocation.
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3 of the last 5 ODI's have been washed out at Headingley.
Add to that it's not a particularly nice stadium and I don't really know why it's getting so much International cricket
They keep bidding loads of money for it.......
Yeah I know, my point was more about the current system of match allocation.
All the ECB care about is making the most money
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YB40 Semi today at Rose Bowl Hants v Glamorgan. Must say i thought Hampshire would win this but i ain't so sure at moment,
Glamorgan made 234 & Hampshire now 79-3 off 19.3.....been 30 years since Glamorgan got to Lords so maybe they are due a chance.
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Looks like Glamorgan - very ominous for Hants now 195 - 7 38 overs
Will be impressive if Hants get 40 off 12 balls.
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We look a bowler light here, our part timers and Tredwell are getting smacked round the park.
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This bowling unit is too weak, there is no control at all from any of them.
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I have no idea why we were bowling first here, this has been a really poor bowling performance.
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I'm hoping this is a case of looking at various options for the future, because this balance can't work moving forward.
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Johnson is looking very very good.
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Bopara does what he's always done, follows up a great performance with as soft a dismissal as you'll see.
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This has been a dreadful performance all round. Wrong team selection, wrong choice at toss, terrible bowling and pretty dreadful batting.
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A better balance would be Carberry, Root, Trott, KP, Wright, Bopara, Morgan, Buttler, Tredwell, Finn, Rankin
40 overs from Tredwell, Wright, Finn & Rankin with 10 shared between 5 bowlers.
Or drop Carberry, open with KP and bring in one of the young quicks.
The Aussies seem to be more settled than we are, but we'll come good.
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A better balance would be Carberry, Root, Trott, KP, Wright, Bopara, Morgan, Buttler, Tredwell, Finn, Rankin
40 overs from Tredwell, Wright, Finn & Rankin with 10 shared between 5 bowlers.
Or drop Carberry, open with KP and bring in one of the young quicks.
The Aussies seem to be more settled than we are, but we'll come good.
I still think that's short a strike bowler.
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A better balance would be Carberry, Root, Trott, KP, Wright, Bopara, Morgan, Buttler, Tredwell, Finn, Rankin
40 overs from Tredwell, Wright, Finn & Rankin with 10 shared between 5 bowlers.
Or drop Carberry, open with KP and bring in one of the young quicks.
The Aussies seem to be more settled than we are, but we'll come good.
I still think that's short a strike bowler.
Carberry for Jordan for me
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I'm fine with a bit of experimentation in our batting line up, so I'd give Carberry the next three games. I'd drop Trott, purely as we know what he can do and England have clearly earmarked this as a chance to look at players. Bring Overton in for Trott and swap Wright for Stokes, as I think Stokes can potentially be our Test number 6 if he develops.
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I'm fine with a bit of experimentation in our batting line up, so I'd give Carberry the next three games. I'd drop Trott, purely as we know what he can do and England have clearly earmarked this as a chance to look at players. Bring Overton in for Trott and swap Wright for Stokes, as I think Stokes can potentially be our Test number 6 if he develops.
I see what you are saying about Carberry being given a chance but how many chances has Luke Wright had
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I'm fine with a bit of experimentation in our batting line up, so I'd give Carberry the next three games. I'd drop Trott, purely as we know what he can do and England have clearly earmarked this as a chance to look at players. Bring Overton in for Trott and swap Wright for Stokes, as I think Stokes can potentially be our Test number 6 if he develops.
I see what you are saying about Carberry being given a chance but how many chances has Luke Wright had
A lot in the past, I'm not saying discard him completely. He's been excellent at Twenty20, but I think at the moment Carberry deserves a shot in this series. Stokes is the future in my opinion, his bowling will develop to be excellent and his batting can be very destructive.
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I'm fine with a bit of experimentation in our batting line up, so I'd give Carberry the next three games. I'd drop Trott, purely as we know what he can do and England have clearly earmarked this as a chance to look at players. Bring Overton in for Trott and swap Wright for Stokes, as I think Stokes can potentially be our Test number 6 if he develops.
I see what you are saying about Carberry being given a chance but how many chances has Luke Wright had
A lot in the past, I'm not saying discard him completely. He's been excellent at Twenty20, but I think at the moment Carberry deserves a shot in this series. Stokes is the future in my opinion, his bowling will develop to be excellent and his batting can be very destructive.
I would leave Wright for the T20 games and let Stokes play as many games as he can
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I agree.
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What is the point of Carberry? He's an average county trundler who has had a couple of decent seasons. He's neither the latecomer who will fulfill his dreams nor the future of English cricket.
If we must pick a 2nd XI to play these pointless one dayers then at least pick some promising youngsters to blood them in International cricket.
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What is the point of Carberry? He's an average county trundler who has had a couple of decent seasons. He's neither the latecomer who will fulfill his dreams nor the future of English cricket.
If we must pick a 2nd XI to play these pointless one dayers then at least pick some promising youngsters to blood them in International cricket.
I think the point is, he's had a couple of decent seasons and it's important to show that if players perform in county cricket they can get a shot at the England team.
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All very nice but he's getting a shot at the expense of a player who could be part of the team for the next 10 to 15 years.
See Lambert, Rickie.
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All very nice but he's getting a shot at the expense of a player who could be part of the team for the next 10 to 15 years.
See Lambert, Rickie.
With regards Lambert he's serving a purpose at the moment, and the next 10 or 15 years are not that important at the moment. England need to win or draw tomorrow.
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I just hope the selectors realise that the balance we went in with yesterday will never work. In Ireland we conceded too many runs with the same bowling attack and it was the same against Australia. You can't only have 3 genuine bowlers in the team, it just doesn't work.
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I just hope the selectors realise that the balance we went in with yesterday will never work. In Ireland we conceded too many runs with the same bowling attack and it was the same against Australia. You can't only have 3 genuine bowlers in the team, it just doesn't work.
This is the key, Stokes has promise with the ball, but to expect him to bowl 8-10 overs in an ODI at this stage is unfair. I said after Ireland we were a bowler short and I still believe that. If Finn wasn't leaking runs and Rankin wasn't just games into his England career it might be plausible but right now it's just hurting the squad to play as we are. For me you can only pick 1 of Bopara or Stokes, so it's a choice of proven but inconsistent quality or unproven promise.
I know they struggled a little but I'd keep the batting line up, they had a big total to chase on a pitch that was always going to be against them so, whilst they failed as a unit, the whole mindset in the side was wrong after the aussie innings.
Personally I'd play the same side except Jordan in as the extra bowler and Stokes up to 6 with Bopara out. Tough on Ravi but I just don't trust him to not wrap his wicket up and hand it over like he did. If he was out trying to smash it for 6 or done by a good one I wouldn't mind but too often it's gentle lobs straight to a close fielder/bowler.
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"nd Semi of YB40 tonight at Trent Bridge Notts v Somerset been rain affected and Notts put Somerset in on what is now a 35 over match.
Somerset were awful all out for 119 in 25.4 overs.
So i would hazard a guess that Notts will win this....seemed a decent pitch!!!
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Notts require 25 from 126 balls.
Should have watched friggin Eastenders at least that would have sent me to sleep!
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According to a piece in this months Cricketer magazine the main stand at The Gabba replicates the Holte End - been to Oz twice but not Brisbane does anyone know how right this is / got any pics ?
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Seems unlikely
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dor--myLb4w/UDMbm49K7eI/AAAAAAAAEAg/nhcKVfg84Eg/s1600/Gabba.jpg)
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They've got the stands wrong, I'm pretty sure they mean Trinity Rd where there are 2 big similarities:
1. The external frame
2. It hangs over the road
You can check it out on google maps, search for the gabba and then use streetview to zoom in on the south side.
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We've got tickets for today but after looking at the forecast I'm not too confident of getting a full game. Very overcast here (Kings Norton) but the BBC forecast has changed with the rain not starting until late afternoon when initially it was set to coincide with the start of the game.
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Edgbaston latest: Toss 14:05 Match to start at 14:20
At between £40-£60 a tkt i wont be ambling down the ground - there are tkts left but there is no way the game will be completed today......possibly a D/L result i suppose!
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Michael Clarke won toss and put us in...due conditions
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Wouldnt worry who bats first - the game will be a draw due to rain .
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Oh dear the most worrying thing is that we haven't learned from the Ireland game or the first Aussie game, you can't only play 3 front line bowlers. The totals you concede are just too high on a prelonged basis. You might win the odd game, but in the long run I guarantee any team only playing three proper bowlers will fail.
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Pietersen Runs out Carberry in first over for 1
5-1 1 over
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but this series doesn't matter. They are just looking for options for the Ashes in a couple of months
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but this series doesn't matter. They are just looking for options for the Ashes in a couple of months
This has nothing to do with options for the Ashes. Trott and KP will definitely play anyway, Finn/Rankin may do and maybe number 6 up for grabs. However the majority of this squad won't be near the Ashes team, so they should be focussed on this format. You don't just throw away games against Australia either. 3 bowlers is not enough in any format.
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Carberry is having an absolute nightmare.
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Although he shouldn't pay for that mistake, that was all KP's fault and he sacrificed himself.
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but this series doesn't matter. They are just looking for options for the Ashes in a couple of months
This has nothing to do with options for the Ashes. Trott and KP will definitely play anyway, Finn/Rankin may do and maybe number 6 up for grabs. However the majority of this squad won't be near the Ashes team, so they should be focussed on this format. You don't just throw away games against Australia either. 3 bowlers is not enough in any format.
No way rankin will play in the ashes tests , not a chance in hell- Anderson, broad, Bresnan , tremlett and Finn are all well ahead of him.
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Carberry is having an absolute nightmare.
Luck wise yes....couldn't blame him for that fiasco!
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but this series doesn't matter. They are just looking for options for the Ashes in a couple of months
This has nothing to do with options for the Ashes. Trott and KP will definitely play anyway, Finn/Rankin may do and maybe number 6 up for grabs. However the majority of this squad won't be near the Ashes team, so they should be focussed on this format. You don't just throw away games against Australia either. 3 bowlers is not enough in any format.
No way rankin will play in the ashes tests , not a chance in hell- Anderson, broad, Bresnan , tremlett and Finn are all well ahead of him.
I think i commented on this the other week.....Rankin is extremely well thought of by the England hierachy....Finn is just ahead of him but DO NOT write Rankin off being in that Ashes squad...be it at your peril.
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but this series doesn't matter. They are just looking for options for the Ashes in a couple of months
This has nothing to do with options for the Ashes. Trott and KP will definitely play anyway, Finn/Rankin may do and maybe number 6 up for grabs. However the majority of this squad won't be near the Ashes team, so they should be focussed on this format. You don't just throw away games against Australia either. 3 bowlers is not enough in any format.
No way rankin will play in the ashes tests , not a chance in hell- Anderson, broad, Bresnan , tremlett and Finn are all well ahead of him.
Bresnan probably won't make it with his injury, make no mistake they're looking at Rankin to possibly be involved due to the bounce he gets. It'd be useful on Aussie pitches.
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Finn is off form so I would reckon there is a possibility of a space for either Rankin or Tremlett, so why not try it. I also think Stokes is there to see if he could be a proper all rounder.
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Pieterswn Ct Bailey b Johnson 6
Trott 12
26-2 5.3overs
He needed to score big after his fiasco with Carberry!!
Root in now
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Finn is off form so I would reckon there is a possibility of a space for either Rankin or Tremlett, so why not try it. I also think Stokes is there to see if he could be a proper all rounder.
Tremlett will be a huge bowler again down under , whether Bresnan is fit or not .
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Trott survives a review. He was given out LBW but review shows pitching outside....fair enough. He was gonna walk off but a lengthy chat with Root made his mind up to review.
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Trott survived another LBW review called for by Mitchell Johnson.....result Umpire's Call, was just clipping top of bails.
39-2 9.5
Trott 20
Root 5
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Finn is off form so I would reckon there is a possibility of a space for either Rankin or Tremlett, so why not try it. I also think Stokes is there to see if he could be a proper all rounder.
Stokes is very raw, I think he's got a great future provided his attitude holds but the Ashes is too soon I think.
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52-3 (13.3)
Root C&b Vosges 12
Trott 26
Morgan in
Light drizzle abounds!
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Problem is that we're playing so badly thus far in these two ODIs that we're actually giving confidence and belief back to the Aussies and tat could have an effect down under.
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To be fair whichever side won the toss with the conditions and the rain to come, was always going to be unbelievably strong favorites. Duckworth lewis favours the side batting 2nd way too much
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To be fair whichever side won the toss with the conditions and the rain to come, was always going to be unbelievably strong favorites. Duckworth lewis favours the side batting 2nd way too much
I doubt it would make that big of a difference with our bowling attack.
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Have actually gone off now....can't see them coming back for a while if at all....not nice out my back window - i aint far up the Bristol Rd from ground.
59-3 15.1 overs
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Rain set in for a few hours i reckon - cant see a result here.
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Have actually gone off now....can't see them coming back for a while if at all....not nice out my back window - i aint far up the Bristol Rd from ground.
59-3 15.1 overs
It's the Edgbaston weather curse yet again! We have had rotten luck what with not being awarded a test until 2015 and most of these ODI's that we manage to stage are usually rained off! This must affect takings for the club through catering etc? Last 'Summer' was a disaster with International matches at Edgbaston.
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No luck about not getting a major test for 2 years - just a rank shockingly bad decision.
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We're going to abandon the game before it gets abandoned. Can't see how there can be any more cricket here today. Not that what we've seen was up to much.
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I see that Sreesanth has today been banned for life for Spot fixing...what a prat!
He played for Bears in 2009 and i liked him he seemed to give his all albeit not overly successful.
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Swann and Broad too tired to play for England but can play in YB40 final.
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Swann and Broad too tired to play for England but can play in YB40 final.
I don't see the problem, Swann doesn't play ODIs anyway and Broad has played a hell of a lot of games for England across all formats in the last year or so.
Aside from that we need to look at other options, if Jimmy and Broad were playing would Rankin have got much game time, for example?
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Swann and Broad too tired to play for England but can play in YB40 final.
I don't see the problem, Swann doesn't play ODIs anyway and Broad has played a hell of a lot of games for England across all formats in the last year or so.
Aside from that we need to look at other options, if Jimmy and Broad were playing would Rankin have got much game time, for example?
They never asked to be rested by England - this is notts first final in over 20 years so having served the county for years they fully deserve the chance to play in the final.
One 40 over game is a lot different to 5 one day games - its a one off huge occassion for notts - let the lads enjoy it .
Other players have been given the same privilege to play in finals in recent years as well.
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Unchanged again, I just hope they realise we need more frontline bowlers going forward.
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Finn strikes good start.
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This pitch is going to be a great opportunity for Stokes to show his merits as a seamer.
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Rankin bowled beautifully there, he worked over Watson and got him out.
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Rankin bowled beautifully there, he worked over Watson and got him out.
Agree, excellent over, set Watson up perfectly.
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I'm not overstating here, but Rankin is playing himself into the Test squad.
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Stokes needs to show more control than that.
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Great bouncer from Stokes gets Marsh.
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Clarke given out but bloody hell I'm not sure on that one, big wicket from Finn.
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Excellent captaincy from Morgan as well keeping the front line bowler going at one end.
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This is Finn at his best, nipping it back. He's not a swing bowler and he shouldn't be trying to swing it.
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The problem we have now is that if we don't bowl them out quick. We'll have pretty much used up Rankin and Finn and we're going to have a lot of overs from Tredwell, Bopara and Root which isn't ideal. We're definitely a seamer light.
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You'd take chasing below 230 any day of the week. However, because of the lack of bowlers, Australia were allowed to rebuild in the middle against the part timers.
Another seamer on this pitch and Australia could have been restricted to 175
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Did well to haul it back there, Stokes looks a very good player to me. Although I still think we were a seamer light.
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Stokes has a hell of a lot of potential, and will turn into a quality limited overs all rounder.
He isn't good enough to be a mainline bowler at the moment though
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Shocking from Trott, he really is struggling at the moment. He used to put a high price on his wicket and now he's giving it away.
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Hattrick Root gone. All rubbish shots, terrible.
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3 Test players and 3 awful shots.
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Shocking from Trott, he really is struggling at the moment. He used to put a high price on his wicket and now he's giving it away.
Amazingly he still has the reputation from the pundits as a bat for a fortnight sort of guy. He hasn't been reliable for 2 years
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Shocking from Trott, he really is struggling at the moment. He used to put a high price on his wicket and now he's giving it away.
Amazingly he still has the reputation from the pundits as a bat for a fortnight sort of guy. He hasn't been reliable for 2 years
Yep no player should be immovable.
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Carberry gone at the key time, but he played hell.
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At the moment the positives from this series are Buttler starting to get runs, Morgan getting runs, Stokes and Rankin. But I think the selection has been completely wrong and we look pretty poor overall.
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Would be nice to see a win here after watching that shocking villa display this afternoon.
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Doing our best to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory here.
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Well done Buttler great effort, still the balance of the team was completely wrong. Really glad Carberry got his runs though.
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Great knock from Buttler, who finally seems to be making something of his talent.
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Brilliant from Buttler in the end, he's growing into a very good player, and he's looked excellent behind the stumps this summer as well. I'd drop Bopara for Jordan for the last one, we looked a bowler short again which let them back in when we could've been looking at chasing less than 200.
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Swann and Broad too tired to play for England but can play in YB40 final.
I don't see the problem, Swann doesn't play ODIs anyway and Broad has played a hell of a lot of games for England across all formats in the last year or so.
Aside from that we need to look at other options, if Jimmy and Broad were playing would Rankin have got much game time, for example?
They never asked to be rested by England - this is notts first final in over 20 years so having served the county for years they fully deserve the chance to play in the final.
One 40 over game is a lot different to 5 one day games - its a one off huge occassion for notts - let the lads enjoy it .
Other players have been given the same privilege to play in finals in recent years as well.
I take your points especially about Rankin but Swann isn't playing, to protect his elbow and Broad may even end up as ODI captain so should be playing if fit. After all, the ECB pay their wages. Also, it's got to be tough on the two Notts players who got them to the final who will be dropped.
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Swann and Broad too tired to play for England but can play in YB40 final.
I don't see the problem, Swann doesn't play ODIs anyway and Broad has played a hell of a lot of games for England across all formats in the last year or so.
Aside from that we need to look at other options, if Jimmy and Broad were playing would Rankin have got much game time, for example?
They never asked to be rested by England - this is notts first final in over 20 years so having served the county for years they fully deserve the chance to play in the final.
One 40 over game is a lot different to 5 one day games - its a one off huge occassion for notts - let the lads enjoy it .
Other players have been given the same privilege to play in finals in recent years as well.
I take your points especially about Rankin but Swann isn't playing, to protect his elbow and Broad may even end up as ODI captain so should be playing if fit. After all, the ECB pay their wages. Also, it's got to be tough on the two Notts players who got them to the final who will be dropped.
Swann hasn't played ODIs for a while so he's not being rested for this, whatever the reason Tredwell is the spinner in the ODI squad. So the rested bowlers are Broad and Anderson. Anderson looked like he needed a rest in the last couple of tests and Broad has played a lot of international cricket so deserves the chance to play a few county games. I agree it's tough on the guys who played earlier in the tournament but I'm sure they'll understand and will know they played an important role.
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Disappointed we've gone with the same balance again, but good to see Jordan get his chance and also Trott is out.
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Early wicket for Jordan!
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Stokes two wickets in two balls, he's developing quickly. I think he's got a good chance of playing 6 in the Ashes. He's an excellent fielder as well.
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Disappointed we've gone with the same balance again, but good to see Jordan get his chance and also Trott is out.
I'm happier with this balance, Wright for Trott gives us a seam alternative which was clearly missing, Bopara out for Finn and Stokes up to 6 would've been better though.
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Finn has not been left out he is injured - a side strain. Trott also injured suffered a back spasm 5-10 minutes before toss. Yes tough Trott's demise gives England a bowling option.
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Disappointed we've gone with the same balance again, but good to see Jordan get his chance and also Trott is out.
I'm happier with this balance, Wright for Trott gives us a seam alternative which was clearly missing, Bopara out for Finn and Stokes up to 6 would've been better though.
That's true, it is a bit better balanced. I'm really starting to think Stokes is going to be a very good player.
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Disappointed we've gone with the same balance again, but good to see Jordan get his chance and also Trott is out.
I'm happier with this balance, Wright for Trott gives us a seam alternative which was clearly missing, Bopara out for Finn and Stokes up to 6 would've been better though.
That's true, it is a bit better balanced. I'm really starting to think Stokes is going to be a very good player.
I think Stokes has the ability to be an excellent all-rounder in all formats, his bowling isn't quite there yet as he's not confident enough to hold a line and length yet but the raw pace and natural action he has are enough to work with, I can see why they want him getting time in the middle as the 3rd seamer.
Jordan looks like he could be a very good bowler as well, expensive so far but he's a quickie making his debut on a very good batting track. The delivery that got the wicket was great, just cramped Hughes for space and made him play a nothing shot into the air.
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There you go, as I was typing Stokes throws down a few pies and goes for 12, is those bad overs he needs to get rid of.
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I've jinxed Stokes there, but I'm very hopeful that he'll develop very well.
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Watson is slaughtering us here.
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stupid as it may seem that's an impressive performance from the seamers, they just took Tredwell and Root to the cleaners (although Root had good figures after 5, 28 from an over is pretty brutal). Jordan deserves a special mention, 3 for 51 on debut is impressive, as does Stokes who will become a top all rounder once he gets rid of those bad overs he throws in here and there. Rankin looked like the experienced pro at the other end, kept it tight and built pressure, glad he got one at the end.
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Yeah the spinners have been horrible for us during these 3 ODIs. Rankin has been absolutely outstanding.
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KP run out.
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How bad was the run out! Decided to nip out and get some petrol so ain't seen it.....what comes round goes round i'm afraid.
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How bad was the run out! Decided to nip out and get some petrol so ain't seen it.....what comes round goes round i'm afraid.
pretty poor, not sure who to blame either, Carberry called it and started going and KP looked confused, looked around a bit and then went really late. Was a misfield by Wade so I assume KP thought he'd picked it up and couldn't work out what was going on.
Carberry gone lbw, he'd looked uncomfortable so probably not a big problem, We need Morgan to go well and up the rate here.
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Root, who also looked quite uncomfortable, drags on 64-3 Morgan and Wright both fairly new to the crease, Morgan looking in good form again though.
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Wright gone, another run out, no one to blame but himself, lazy between the stumps, he had more than enough time to get there.
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Who's this bloke Jordan?
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Who's this bloke Jordan?
Young fast bowler who plays for Surrey........
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Who's this bloke Jordan?
Young fast bowler who plays for Surrey........
Sussex - he used to play for Surrey.
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Who's this bloke Jordan?
Young fast bowler who plays for Surrey........
Sussex - he used to play for Surrey.
Sorry..........it starts with an S and it's down South :-)
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Root has gone backwards a bit lately, which is a bit of a concern.
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Australia deserved that series more than us.
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Australia deserved that series more than us.
The key difference for me was Watson, they had a genuine batting all rounder which gave them real depth with bat and ball. We're trying to push root into that role but he's not really done it in either aspect.
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Australia deserved that series more than us.
The key difference for me was Watson, they had a genuine batting all rounder which gave them real depth with bat and ball. We're trying to push root into that role but he's not really done it in either aspect.
I think overall the balance of the Australian side was better, they never had really obvious periods of weaker bowling. They also were trying to win and we were experimenting.
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Not too bothered about one day series - test match cricket is my cup of tea and thats where my passion lies .
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I understand that, Test cricket is my principle concern. I still don't want us to lose or throwaway one dayers at the same time. It does have a knock on effect, for instance Mitchell Johnson's confidence is now sky high and he will be a major threat in the Ashes.
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He is also a goofy twat who slings them wide of playable fifty times more often than bowling a half decent ball.
Not what you were getting at I know but I do enjoy slating him. The plug toothed arse.
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Mitchell Johnson is far too erratic to be a good test bowler, his lack of a decent line is fine in ODI where people are trying to score regularly, in tests you can leave 90% of the dross he throws down.
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Mitchell Johnson is far too erratic to be a good test bowler, his lack of a decent line is fine in ODI where people are trying to score regularly, in tests you can leave 90% of the dross he throws down.
And still keep the scoreboard ticking over with the extras he adds. He's an utter pish test player.
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Mitchell Johnson is far too erratic to be a good test bowler, his lack of a decent line is fine in ODI where people are trying to score regularly, in tests you can leave 90% of the dross he throws down.
And still keep the scoreboard ticking over with the extras he adds. He's an utter pish test player.
He swings to the left
He swings to the right
That Mitchell Johnson
His bowling is shite
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I'll dispute the fact he's shite, he has over 200 Test wickets and an average of 30-31. That's more or less the same as Stuart Broad. He might not be brilliant, but he certainly isn't shit.
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I'll dispute the fact he's shite, he has over 200 Test wickets and an average of 30-31. That's more or less the same as Stuart Broad. He might not be brilliant, but he certainly isn't shit.
The Barmy Army chant really affected him in the 2010/2011 Ashes. It helped contribute to his poor performance. He's admitted since that he let it affect him and his performances suffered as a result.
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I'll dispute the fact he's shite, he has over 200 Test wickets and an average of 30-31. That's more or less the same as Stuart Broad. He might not be brilliant, but he certainly isn't shit.
The Barmy Army chant really affected him in the 2010/2011 Ashes. It helped contribute to his poor performance. He's admitted since that he let it affect him and his performances suffered as a result.
I'm not disputing that, but a bad series or two doesn't make him a shit player.
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but there is a scale between 'major threat' and 'shite' and he's certainly not at the 'major threat' end of it. He will take wickets because every now and then he'll throw down a 92mph peach that's unplayable, but he'll also throw down a bunch of leg side wides and a few that are begging to go to the rope, his average, and more importantly his economy, back that up.
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I see the ICC haven't made any great steps in their trail rules. Increased reviews in Tests isn't necessary, and they haven't really addressed the issue with slow over rates.
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And the over rate will slow down with even more reviews.
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My idea to combat pathetic over rates would be to charge a bowling side 50 runs at the end of each session for being under the 15 hours an over requirement, if under 14 an hour then 100 runs and so on.
There really is absolutely no excuse
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My idea to combat pathetic over rates would be to charge a bowling side 50 runs at the end of each session for being under the 15 hours an over requirement
Wow - even the slowest team would stay inside that I reckon!!! ;)
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My concern with that idea would be it would be quite easy for the opposition to use reviews to slow the over rate tactically.
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My concern with that idea would be it would be quite easy for the opposition to use reviews to slow the over rate tactically.
No Test side is gonna waste reviews quite so frivolously are they....they only get another 2 reviews after completing 80 overs (i think) which may be a struggle for Aussies when we get at them again!!!(Tongue stuck firmly in cheek)
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Many congratulations to Durham on winning the LV County Championship. I live in Durham, so am please that it's them that take the Bears crown. Rather it be them, than anyone else.
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My concern with that idea would be it would be quite easy for the opposition to use reviews to slow the over rate tactically.
No Test side is gonna waste reviews quite so frivolously are they....they only get another 2 reviews after completing 80 overs (i think) which may be a struggle for Aussies when we get at them again!!!(Tongue stuck firmly in cheek)
If a penalty of 100 runs was available they would. More often than not it would be worth wasting a review in the knowledge the opposition would get an 100 run penalty.
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In an effort to try and temper the nervous hysteria with one and all me included but the latest score in YB40 final is:
Notts 189-5 34.4 Overs
Read 53
Swann 0
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My concern with that idea would be it would be quite easy for the opposition to use reviews to slow the over rate tactically.
No Test side is gonna waste reviews quite so frivolously are they....they only get another 2 reviews after completing 80 overs (i think) which may be a struggle for Aussies when we get at them again!!!(Tongue stuck firmly in cheek)
If a penalty of 100 runs was available they would. More often than not it would be worth wasting a review in the knowledge the opposition would get an 100 run penalty.
In my opinion, there's no reason why a bowling side shouldn't be able to bowl at 16 to 17 overs per hour, so reviews wouldn't factor really
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My concern with that idea would be it would be quite easy for the opposition to use reviews to slow the over rate tactically.
No Test side is gonna waste reviews quite so frivolously are they....they only get another 2 reviews after completing 80 overs (i think) which may be a struggle for Aussies when we get at them again!!!(Tongue stuck firmly in cheek)
If a penalty of 100 runs was available they would. More often than not it would be worth wasting a review in the knowledge the opposition would get an 100 run penalty.
In my opinion, there's no reason why a bowling side shouldn't be able to bowl at 16 to 17 overs per hour, so reviews wouldn't factor really
simply by having a left and right handed batsmen and rotating the strike you can make 16-17 an hour difficult.
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The Ashes squad is announced tomorrow. We can all name the core players but the fringe selections will be interesting.
I think Rankin has bowled himself into contention ahead of Tremlett. Less certainty surround the back up opener, keeper and spinner.
I don't think that they will take Kerrigan, his confidence took a beating at the Oval and Cook lost faith in him. We don't have too many other options so Monty will go as long as he has put his troubles behind him. I think Bairstow will go as a utility player cum reserve keeper and as an outside bet Chopra will go as a back up opener.
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My concern with that idea would be it would be quite easy for the opposition to use reviews to slow the over rate tactically.
No Test side is gonna waste reviews quite so frivolously are they....they only get another 2 reviews after completing 80 overs (i think) which may be a struggle for Aussies when we get at them again!!!(Tongue stuck firmly in cheek)
If a penalty of 100 runs was available they would. More often than not it would be worth wasting a review in the knowledge the opposition would get an 100 run penalty.
In my opinion, there's no reason why a bowling side shouldn't be able to bowl at 16 to 17 overs per hour, so reviews wouldn't factor really
simply by having a left and right handed batsmen and rotating the strike you can make 16-17 an hour difficult.
I'd guess that the amount of singles taken in a days play is nowhere near the amount of other denominations (including dot balls). There's no law against a bowler getting back to the start of his run up quickly
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The Ashes squad is announced tomorrow. We can all name the core players but the fringe selections will be interesting.
I think Rankin has bowled himself into contention ahead of Tremlett. Less certainty surround the back up opener, keeper and spinner.
I don't think that they will take Kerrigan, his confidence took a beating at the Oval and Cook lost faith in him. We don't have too many other options so Monty will go as long as he has put his troubles behind him. I think Bairstow will go as a utility player cum reserve keeper and as an outside bet Chopra will go as a back up opener.
Agree about Boyd and Bairstow, I think they will go with Tredwell and send Kerrigan, Monty to the Lions. I hope they go with Chops but they may take Ballance and send Chopra, Compton with the Lions as well
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My squad would be:
Bowlers:
Anderson
Broad
Finn
Rankin
Onions
Swann
Panesar
Batsmen:
Cook
Root
Compton
Bell
Pietersen
Bairstow
Taylor
Trott
Ballance
Wicket keeper:
Prior (Bairstow would be back up keeper)
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My squad would be:
Bowlers:
Anderson
Broad
Finn
Rankin
Onions
Swann
Panesar
Batsmen:
Cook
Root
Compton
Bell
Pietersen
Bairstow
Taylor
Trott
Ballance
Wicket keeper:
Prior (Bairstow would be back up keeper)
I'd take Tremlett instead of Panesar, because we don't need two spinners with the development squad in Australia. I'd also have Stokes instead of Balance.
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My squad would be:
Bowlers:
Anderson
Broad
Finn
Rankin
Onions
Swann
Panesar
Batsmen:
Cook
Root
Compton
Bell
Pietersen
Bairstow
Taylor
Trott
Ballance
Wicket keeper:
Prior (Bairstow would be back up keeper)
I'd take Tremlett instead of Panesar, because we don't need two spinners with the development squad in Australia. I'd also have Stokes instead of Balance.
To be honest, from what I've seen of Tremlett this summer, and by all reports, he's looked a shadow of the bowler he was last time down under. I'd be reluctant to have any touring squad without a second spinner, if only for the chance of Swann falling awkwardly 40 minutes before the start of play.
I think Stokes is a highly talented cricketer, with the potential to develop into a quality all rounder. At the moment though, I don't think his batting or bowling is quite good enough in their own rights to warrant a place.
Ballance averages well over fifty in both forms of the game, and him being a left hander helps.
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ENGLAND ASHES SQUAD
Cook, Prior, Anderson, Bairstow, Ballance, Bell, Broad, Carberry, Finn, Panesar, Pietersen, Rankin, Root, Stokes, Swann, Tremlett, Trott.
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Compton has really blotted his copy book hasn't he?
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Surprised at carberry getting the nod, no onions or woakes but good to see tremlett and panesar in the squad.
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Interesting squad and on balance fairly good, it's harsh on Onions though.
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I think the only real surprise is Ballance, but an excellent season so why not. I thought they may have named Bresnan in the squad but he is at least travelling with the squad so his fitness progress can be monitored. Fair play to Ben Stokes, i didn't think they would give him a chance to atone for his behavioural issues last winter quite so soon but to be fair to the lad he has done well, at Chris Woakes expense i feel. Nick Compton's temper tantrum has certainly cost him his place to Carberry, it was a case of either or here again and Carberry has won.
I actually thought that Finn may have missed out but i imagine the Bresnan situation has saved him as i have been saying for a while i always felt that Rankin would come into the frame and get the call which i thought would be at the expense of Finn. Fair play both are going along with Monty as 2nd spinner....i'm pleased with that - tried and tested. Onions well he will feel disappointed but i'm not surprised....his record of 66 championship wickets has been excellent but he has been able to play virtually a full season whereas other 'quickies' haven't had that opportunity due to being unable to play due to ECB not letting them!!!!
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Thought Onions might be picked ahead of Finn, I guess Australia's pitches helped Finn to be selected. Not too bad otherwise, hopefully some of our batsmen who didn't play that well in the Ashes here, will play well over there; such as Cook, Trott and Prior.
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as above, Onions for Finn is the only change really. Stokes or Woakes as an all rounder was always going to be 1 from 2 and Stokes did well in the last couple of ODIs. Ballance is clearly one for the future but it will do him good to get time around the squad.
Oh I think Buttler must've been close to pushing for a spot, his game has come on well in the last year, he looked a lot more responsible with the bat in the recent ODIs and his record showed it, he also did very well with the gloves given he kept for Dernbach in the T20 and some dodgy Finn spells in the ODIs he can be pretty satisfied with having kept down the extras.
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I think Stokes has a lot more potential than Woakes, so is probably the right call. Buttler will be knocking on the door soon, especially if Prior's form doesn't pick up.
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Think Woakes could end up being a good batsman, but can't see his bowling ever being good enough for Test level cricket.
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I think Stokes has a lot more potential than Woakes, so is probably the right call. Buttler will be knocking on the door soon, especially if Prior's form doesn't pick up.
He is ahead at the moment by virtue of today's decision but overall i expect Woakes to come through as the better of the two. Woakes temperament is absolutely top draw whereas i don't have that same confidence in Stokes and i see Woakes taking over eventually. There in no doubt though that they are both highly talented young cricketers. It will be an interesting couple of years watching them develop.
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I take back all the positive and nice things i've said about Boyd Rankin - he supports Red scouse.....i never knew that!!!!
He admitted though to having never been to Anfield....must be a 'Big armchair ' supporter!
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I think Stoakes has a lot more natural talent than Woakes. His bowling has improved a lot already and he can get up to good pace and reverse swing it and his batting can be very destructive.
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I think Stoakes has a lot more natural talent than Woakes. His bowling has improved a lot already and he can get up to good pace and reverse swing it and his batting can be very destructive.
On what do you base that, only on 1 day cricket i assume. Woakes believe me is a very talented player i see obviously a lot more of him as he plays for Bears, don't think that because Stokes had a decent one day series just now puts him way ahead of Woakes believe me. Stokes has done really well in that one day series but we will have to see if his temperament will stand up to a test series against Australia, i have no doubt whatsoever that Woakes would stand up to that. I hope Stokes goes on and if selected i hope he does well.
In regard to both their qualities as batsmen Woakes is an excellent batsman and on his day can be as destructive as anyone in the English game....do you remember his 6 first ball off Brett Lee at i think the MCG a few years ago when he was a kid. His ability as a batsman had forced Bears to put him ahead of Rikki Clarke at the behest of the England management in an effort to give him time at the crease.
England are lucky to have two players of a similar age and ability and all this discussion is all about opinions which makes cricket such a great game and talking point. At least today's decision hopefully means that Woakes can play at Derby tomorrow!!!!
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I base it on the fact that Woakes has played a few international games and never once looked like he has what it takes to be a top international player. I don't say that with any joy, I hope he improves massively and is a success but I've seen more of an x-factor in Stokes.
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Long term woakes is a 6 who bats well and offers something with the ball if we need it and Stokes is an 8 who is there for his bowling but does the Bresnan job of scoring important runs in the tail.
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Carberry and Ballance very fortunate to be in the squad. Guess Compton's reaction to being dropped counted against him.
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Carberry?
Nah, sorry, don't see what he's done to deserve a place above the likes of Chopra, James Taylor, Compton and especially Graham Onions.
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Long term woakes is a 6 who bats well and offers something with the ball if we need it and Stokes is an 8 who is there for his bowling but does the Bresnan job of scoring important runs in the tail.
I say this as a Bears fan and a fan Woakes himself, but can you ever see him being a 6 at international level Paul?
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Long term woakes is a 6 who bats well and offers something with the ball if we need it and Stokes is an 8 who is there for his bowling but does the Bresnan job of scoring important runs in the tail.
I say this as a Bears fan and a fan Woakes himself, but can you ever see him being a 6 at international level Paul?
he's actually the current incumbent having batted there at the Oval......although i do agree there should be quite a few above him in the pecking order
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I am a Bears fan and biased I know but I dont know how Carberry get in ahead of Chopra, Chopra has scored twice as many runs this year than Carberry, at a higher level and is 7 years younger............
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Long term woakes is a 6 who bats well and offers something with the ball if we need it and Stokes is an 8 who is there for his bowling but does the Bresnan job of scoring important runs in the tail.
I think Woakes needs a lot more to be an international number 6 and I think Stokes is a naturally more talented bat than Bres.
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I am a Bears fan and biased I know but I dont know how Carberry get in ahead of Chopra, Chopra has scored twice as many runs this year than Carberry, at a higher level and is 7 years younger............
Yep, no idea. And I'd put Chopra behind James Taylor.
Carberry is a strange choice, It's not like he's really on form so there goes the "pick the players who are performing despite their age" pick, and he's not young so there goes the "Give youth a chance" pick. Fuck knows what was going on in the selector's heads.
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Big news over here about Stokes being in the squad, given that he is a local lad from Christchurch. Hope he does well, it could have been worse for him, he could have been picked by The Black Caps.
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Keeping an eye on 3 matches today:-
Warks V Derbys, Somerset V Notts and Durham V Sussex.
Hope there's not a draw between the Bears and Derbyshire. If Bears lose then Derbyshire could stay up at the expense of Nottinghamshire or Somerset (Nott's looking more likely at the moment). If Bears win then we could finish above Sussex and Middlesex in 3rd place.
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Long term woakes is a 6 who bats well and offers something with the ball if we need it and Stokes is an 8 who is there for his bowling but does the Bresnan job of scoring important runs in the tail.
I say this as a Bears fan and a fan Woakes himself, but can you ever see him being a 6 at international level Paul?
He averages nearly 40 in first class which isn't a long way short of Bairstow who has had a lot of chances in there. I also think Woakes has a strong enough technique to work with, and he's not 25 until the spring so he's still young in international terms.
I guess it's a maybe, but I think he's worth a look.
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Long term woakes is a 6 who bats well and offers something with the ball if we need it and Stokes is an 8 who is there for his bowling but does the Bresnan job of scoring important runs in the tail.
I say this as a Bears fan and a fan Woakes himself, but can you ever see him being a 6 at international level Paul?
He averages nearly 40 in first class which isn't a long way short of Bairstow who has had a lot of chances in there. I also think Woakes has a strong enough technique to work with, and he's not 25 until the spring so he's still young in international terms.
I guess it's a maybe, but I think he's worth a look.
Feels quite good to see him get his highest 1st class total 2 days after I wrote that, good on him after being left out by England, this is the right way to respond, take note Mr Compton.
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Any idea if Northants are already promoted, or whether Essex are still challenging them?
Northants need 199 runs to win with 7 wickets left.
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Northants are up because Essex didn't get enough bonus points.
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Northants are up because Essex didn't get enough bonus points.
Ta muchly - Glad that another home county isn't replacing Surrey.
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Northants are up because Essex didn't get enough bonus points.
Boo, not fair, my county was robbed.
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Tendulkar retires
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/24476273
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2456351/Tom-Maynard-death-Matthew-Maynard-exclusive-interview.html
So sad. He still sounds absolutely crushed. Can't imagine the pain, just can't imagine it.
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Hotting up already for events down under this winter!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/24540413
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2456351/Tom-Maynard-death-Matthew-Maynard-exclusive-interview.html
So sad. He still sounds absolutely crushed. Can't imagine the pain, just can't imagine it.
That was a tough read
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2456351/Tom-Maynard-death-Matthew-Maynard-exclusive-interview.html
So sad. He still sounds absolutely crushed. Can't imagine the pain, just can't imagine it.
That was a tough read
No kidding
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Free cricket.
Afghanistan V Ireland Day 2.
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New Zealand could be dark horses for the World Cup. If Williamson stays in form they will score the runs that could make them successful. They have a so-so bowlingattack that makes big mistakes, but the big totals means they get through. That's how they'vegone 3 up v India in their best of 5 series.
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Ha. Forget that. I wrote that with India 7 wickets down needing loads. Somehow the poor bowling attack allowed India back. even though There were a couple of outstanding catches- Southee and I think Guptill - but toomany important, and relatively easy chances of stumpings, running-outs, and so on. That's why they'll win games but will ultimately balls itup.
That brought to you by Cricket New Zealand.