The Cricket Thread 2013

[Chris Smith]

Our batsmen seem to have had a collective loss of confidence. Our success of recent times has been built on strength in depth, if the top order failed the middle order helped them out or at another time we would score enough early on to cover for a later collapse. No need to panic and throw the baby out with the bathwater but we might have to tweak things a little.

[PaulWinch again]

Our batsmen seem to have had a collective loss of confidence. Our success of recent times has been built on strength in depth, if the top order failed the middle order helped them out or at another time we would score enough early on to cover for a later collapse. No need to panic and throw the baby out with the bathwater but we might have to tweak things a little.

I think Root being in the middle order would help him and the team, Carberry up the top to try and add impetus. I know he's 32, but he's been playing well and offers something different at the top.

[tomd2103]

No matter what the aussies get, our batting is indefensible

and has been for a while, if this was an isolated incident then you could go 'yeah ok every team has a bad day'. However we have been failing to put on first innings runs for a long while now and there are major issues with how we approach an innings, and players not being under pressure to perform.

Would say that the batting struggles began in New Zealand really and we haven't been able to shake it off.  His 178 at Lords aside, Root has struggled at the top of the order and would be better off down the order.  If the powers that be don't fancy Compton or any of the other opening options, then maybe move Trott to opener and give someone else a chance at 3. 

[PaulWinch again]

It's longer than that, we've made 400+ 8 times in our last 46 innings.

[PaulWinch again]

I do think a symptom of the negativity is selecting Bresnan, it's not that I think he's a bad player but I think they clearly pick him to bolster the batting which in turn means those above him don't take responsibility. He'd be a good 4th seamer, but he is no way the third best seamer in the country. He will pick up a couple of wickets here and there, but he'll never go through a team. Onions, Tremlett and Finn are all better bowlers than him and in a three man seam attack you need strike bowlers.

[PaulWinch again]

Read Aggers' column on the BBC to identify how we have been sliding for a while now.

[OzVilla]

Clearly we won't really know what a good score is on this track until the Aussies have batted on it as Durham has a history of 250 being very competitive but the batting is a real issue.

Take nothing away from Australia, their bowling attack is perfect for this type of pitch but we've batted poorly, i'm not sure whether Bairstow can hang on much longer without a score in the 2nd innings, Root just looks out of his depth right now and Cook is just hanging in there all the time, there's no fluency to our batting whatsoever.  We've 4 or 5 players that look very low on confidence out of our top 7 and your only going to go one way with that type of make up.  Clearly you wouldn't drop Cook, Trott or Prior so that leaves a move for Root down the order and leaving out Bairstow for an opener (unless he scores a ton in the 2nd innings that is). 

Hanging back in the crease is always a sign of low confidence and it's rife though our batting line up right now, on pitches that we should look to get forward on against an attack that is a disciplined line and length attack.  Back foot players or not, thats a recipe for disaster against this attack.

We deserved to win the first two Tests but we also deserved to lose the last one.  We've got through this series retaining the Ashes already so they deserve credit for that but i'm afraid we'll get walloped in Australia unless we sort this out.

England hav'nt lost a Test in 12 Tests I heard, so we are very hard to beat.  We're going to need to be again.

[tomd2103]

I do think a symptom of the negativity is selecting Bresnan, it's not that I think he's a bad player but I think they clearly pick him to bolster the batting which in turn means those above him don't take responsibility. He'd be a good 4th seamer, but he is no way the third best seamer in the country. He will pick up a couple of wickets here and there, but he'll never go through a team. Onions, Tremlett and Finn are all better bowlers than him and in a three man seam attack you need strike bowlers.

Totally agree with that Paul.  Being slightly negative has been our default setting for a while now though, even back to when we would employ Giles to bowl only on the leg side.  Our declarations and enforcement of the follow on over the past few years are prime examples of our safety first approach. 

[PaulWinch again]

Clearly we won't really know what a good score is on this track until the Aussies have batted on it as Durham has a history of 250 being very competitive but the batting is a real issue.

Take nothing away from Australia, their bowling attack is perfect for this type of pitch but we've batted poorly, i'm not sure whether Bairstow can hang on much longer without a score in the 2nd innings, Root just looks out of his depth right now and Cook is just hanging in there all the time, there's no fluency to our batting whatsoever.  We've 4 or 5 players that look very low on confidence out of our top 7 and your only going to go one way with that type of make up.  Clearly you wouldn't drop Cook, Trott or Prior so that leaves a move for Root down the order and leaving out Bairstow for an opener (unless he scores a ton in the 2nd innings that is). 

Hanging back in the crease is always a sign of low confidence and it's rife though our batting line up right now, on pitches that we should look to get forward on against an attack that is a disciplined line and length attack.  Back foot players or not, thats a recipe for disaster against this attack.

We deserved to win the first two Tests but we also deserved to lose the last one.  We've got through this series retaining the Ashes already so they deserve credit for that but i'm afraid we'll get walloped in Australia unless we sort this out.

England hav'nt lost a Test in 12 Tests I heard, so we are very hard to beat.  We're going to need to be again.

I'd agree with most of that, I think the batting needs serious work.

[paul_e]

I do think a symptom of the negativity is selecting Bresnan, it's not that I think he's a bad player but I think they clearly pick him to bolster the batting which in turn means those above him don't take responsibility. He'd be a good 4th seamer, but he is no way the third best seamer in the country. He will pick up a couple of wickets here and there, but he'll never go through a team. Onions, Tremlett and Finn are all better bowlers than him and in a three man seam attack you need strike bowlers.

Totally agree with that Paul.  Being slightly negative has been our default setting for a while now though, even back to when we would employ Giles to bowl only on the leg side.  Our declarations and enforcement of the follow on over the past few years are prime examples of our safety first approach. 

I still think that is very harsh, Bresnan has a better record with the ball than you're giving him credit for, against australia in particular he's only bowled one 1 bad innings, about a week ago.  In 5 matches against australia he has 18 wickets at an average of just over 22.5, with an economy of 2.9.  Those are world class figures for a bowler, as the 3rd seamer they're stunning.  He's there on his bowling merit, yes he won't often rip through a team and get 5for or better, but he's the 3rd seamer/4th bowler in a team with, probably, 2 of the top 5 bowlers in the world, it's not his job to take a hatful of wickets every time.

I genuinely don't know why so many people have got such a problem with him being in the squad.  I know other bowlers are pushing for a place but if they get ahead of him it needs to be because they're bowling exceptionally well.

[villan from luton]

I am not a cricket person who knows everything (cant say coneisseur). I went to Edgbaston to watch Warwickshire play the Aussies in 75. Saw Gower get a 4 with his first shot in 78 v NZ, to square leg near to where I was. Watched Warwickshire with John Jameson and Dennis Amiss win the jon player 40 over league at Worcester circa 1981 after watching lots of home games. Root dont look an opener to me at the moment, Bairstow is not the answer at the moment either. I thought Onions would have played in this match at the expense of Bresnan or Broad, we would still have batting depth down to 9. It is surely up to the batsmen to set the scores and they did not do that again. Bell has shown balls, have the others?

[tomd2103]

I do think a symptom of the negativity is selecting Bresnan, it's not that I think he's a bad player but I think they clearly pick him to bolster the batting which in turn means those above him don't take responsibility. He'd be a good 4th seamer, but he is no way the third best seamer in the country. He will pick up a couple of wickets here and there, but he'll never go through a team. Onions, Tremlett and Finn are all better bowlers than him and in a three man seam attack you need strike bowlers.

Totally agree with that Paul.  Being slightly negative has been our default setting for a while now though, even back to when we would employ Giles to bowl only on the leg side.  Our declarations and enforcement of the follow on over the past few years are prime examples of our safety first approach. 

I still think that is very harsh, Bresnan has a better record with the ball than you're giving him credit for, against australia in particular he's only bowled one 1 bad innings, about a week ago.  In 5 matches against australia he has 18 wickets at an average of just over 22.5, with an economy of 2.9.  Those are world class figures for a bowler, as the 3rd seamer they're stunning.  He's there on his bowling merit, yes he won't often rip through a team and get 5for or better, but he's the 3rd seamer/4th bowler in a team with, probably, 2 of the top 5 bowlers in the world, it's not his job to take a hatful of wickets every time.

I genuinely don't know why so many people have got such a problem with him being in the squad.  I know other bowlers are pushing for a place but if they get ahead of him it needs to be because they're bowling exceptionally well.

Not really got a problem with Bresnan, more to do with the impression his selection gives.  It has to be Bresnan or Broad in the side for me, with Finn or Tremlett taking up the other place.     

[OzVilla]

They won't drop Broad.

I think our bowling is fine I really do, Bresnan, Finn, Tremlett it's still a strong attack whichever way you go. 

It's all about our batting for me and right now it's consistently been below par.  We've just been fortunate in this and the NZ series that it hasn't caught up with us - yet!

[villan from luton]

So who has to go from the batting, is it just Bairstow and move Root down there?

[OzVilla]

Yes, I wouldn't think any other places are under threat.

Unless Bairstow gets a ton in the 2nd innings you'd be foolish to not seriously consider dropping Root down the order to 6 and bringing Compton back in. 

I don't expect they'll do that though as once Flower makes his mind up about a player I think he'd be very stubborn about them. 

Root is still certainly the long term opener for England, I just think it's too much too soon for him at the moment - this Australian attack has got on top of both him and Bairstow and their brains are scrambled.

They both need good runs in the 2nd innings to keep the positions as opener in Roots case and just starting XI in Bairstows.

The one plus point in their favour though is that fundamentally they're both, like Cook and Trott, back foot players which means they'd be better suited to the type of wickets they'll encounter in Brisbane then Durham.