Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: OzVilla on February 19, 2022, 09:24:27 PM
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Back to working out where points will come from and the bottom3’s fixtures.
I’ve had a nagging doubt we could get dragged into this since Brentford away, now it’s more than a doubt.
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No.
I'm disappointed that Europe is gone already, but I'm not relegation worried.
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The worry is that something has taken place behind the scenes and there is disunity in the camp.
Something is not right.
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Not yet.
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I think we will be ok so no I'm not worried.
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The worry is that something has taken place behind the scenes and there is disunity in the camp.
Something is not right.
I think you could be right, I noticed on a few occasions today the players having a go at each other and looking really pissed off.
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The worry is that something has taken place behind the scenes and there is disunity in the camp.
Something is not right.
This whole season has had the air of something just not being right.
ROK and Terry leaving in the summer
Deano persisting with 3/5 at the back having never shown an inclination for that beforehand
The Danny Ings signing & obviously-not-going-to-be-accepted bids for Ward Prowse, Bissouma, and Smith Rowe
The feeling that something wasn't quite right under Dean Smith
The same feeling under Gerrard
Players having a go at eachother under Smith
And under Gerrard
Passing notes about
There's probably other stuff that I've forgotten about. But it does feel to me like something is off.
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The worry is that something has taken place behind the scenes and there is disunity in the camp.
Something is not right.
This whole season has had the air of something just not being right.
ROK and Terry leaving in the summer
Deano persisting with 3/5 at the back having never shown an inclination for that beforehand
The Danny Ings signing & obviously-not-going-to-be-accepted bids for Ward Prowse, Bissouma, and Smith Rowe
The feeling that something wasn't quite right under Dean Smith
The same feeling under Gerrard
Players having a go at eachother under Smith
And under Gerrard
Passing notes about
There's probably other stuff that I've forgotten about. But it does feel to me like something is off.
Maybe our owners are more hands on than we know.
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We should be looking over our shoulder because Watford and Burnley are capable sides. I know they are bottom three currently but they have some good players at Watford and Burnley are tough to play against. Ourselves and Everton are in bother. We stink. Several players not playing well. Gerrard is honest with the press but I wonder whether he has already lost some of the players. Some of the performance are nearly as bad as the Remi Garde era. Why the fuck we didn't bring in a DCM, even on loan is a shock. I'm sick of being crap.
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Not really worried about relegation. I think we’ll be dragged into the fight but we’ll survive by the odd point.
Not sure where points are going to come from now that the players have largely stopped performing and SG starts sulking once we’re losing but……
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I'm not worried, just pissed off. Again.
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Oh and I think we'll actually do better against teams that want to attack and win as they will be more open.
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I'm not worried. We will stay up comfortably but most likely lower placed than last season and almost certainly with fewer points
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We should be looking over our shoulder because Watford and Burnley are capable sides. I know they are bottom three currently but they have some good players at Watford and Burnley are tough to play against. Ourselves and Everton are in bother. We stink. Several players not playing well. Gerrard is honest with the press but I wonder whether he has already lost some of the players. Some of the performance are nearly as bad as the Remi Garde era. Why the fuck we didn't bring in a DCM, even on loan is a shock. I'm sick of being crap.
The last couple of weeks have been shite, but its not anything near 2015/2016, over dramatic to say it is. Its not even as bad as pre covid 2019-20, Leicester away anyone, 1-6 to Man City at home on that dire Sunday afternoon, the last minute loss to spurs after Engels let one go under his foot.
Id say we need 3 wins and 3 draws, so could afford to lose another 8 games and still not go down. Obviously that would be a dire end to the season, but we do need some perspective here.
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Oh and I think we'll actually do better against teams that want to attack and win as they will be more open.
Agree.
I'm feeling much more confident about the next two fixtures where the games will be far more open.
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I am worried. I'm worried that the players have the attitude of it doesn't matter because we're probably OK. The vibe at Newcastle is felt is that it was genuinely treated like a pre season friendly. Sloppy passing, no urgency and a manager slumped in his chair. We then follow it up with that yesterday. I also fail to see how he can gain the respect of the players now, being decisive after Newcastle and completely back tracking then them sticking two fingers up. Yes, I'm very worried.
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No.
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Disappointed just lately but not worried
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Me too, right pissed off with it, but not worried yet.
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The worry is that something has taken place behind the scenes and there is disunity in the camp.
Something is not right.
This whole season has had the air of something just not being right.
ROK and Terry leaving in the summer
Deano persisting with 3/5 at the back having never shown an inclination for that beforehand
The Danny Ings signing & obviously-not-going-to-be-accepted bids for Ward Prowse, Bissouma, and Smith Rowe
The feeling that something wasn't quite right under Dean Smith
The same feeling under Gerrard
Players having a go at eachother under Smith
And under Gerrard
Passing notes about
There's probably other stuff that I've forgotten about. But it does feel to me like something is off.
Yeah this for me is my main worry.
I think it’s a mixture of just being a shit season where things just don’t get going, that happens sometimes. Too many injuries, too much loss of form, signing that’s didn’t work out we expected
I think their is too much PR - I think those strange bids weee to show the kind of players we we’re after and make people say wow
I think also players playing formations that just aren’t working leads to the fall outs on pitch
Don’t think it’s is a consperecy - I do wonder though if maybe too much from Lange and Purslow but that’s just my gut no evidence
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Correct, we can't break down packed defences, over committing and being caught out.
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I am worried that Gerrard uses the royal we instead of I but any talk of relegation or disunity is ridiculous.
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I am worried that Gerrard uses the royal we instead of I but any talk of relegation or disunity is ridiculous.
Yep.
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Nah.
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14 games left (?) so enough games to get the points. 10 points above Norwich and Burnley (who have got games in hand) 9 above Watford and 5 above Everton and Newcastle. Whilst is not impossible to get dragged down, I don’t see Norwich getting 10 points while we don’t get any, same for all of the bottom 3. Our goal difference is much better, and worth another point.
However, really pissed off that I am having to look at the league and who’s on what and who are they playing next. This is a tough time
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If we can't get 10 points from 14 games then Mr Gerrard won't be long for this club.
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If we can't get 10 points from 14 games then Mr Gerrard won't be long for this club.
fact
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As someone said in the post match thread he needs to allow Ketchup again. Seems too serious for me. Relax a little bit. The players might respond. He’s not helped himself recently. Rookie mistakes such as deciding Targett wasn’t good enough after two months, deciding to let him go to a direct rival. Slumping in his chair and pretty much doing the ‘Glenn Hoddle why aren’t this lot as good as me?’ Body language. Then undermining himself by promising changes and bottling it. I think we will manage eight points but I worry about the longer term with him in charge.
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Oh and I think we'll actually do better against teams that want to attack and win as they will be more open.
Agree.
I'm feeling much more confident about the next two fixtures where the games will be far more open.
Both teams are very well organised and I do not see them being open at all.
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As someone said in the post match thread he needs to allow Ketchup again. Seems too serious for me. Relax a little bit. The players might respond. He’s not helped himself recently. Rookie mistakes such as deciding Targett wasn’t good enough after two months, deciding to let him go to a direct rival. Slumping in his chair and pretty much doing the ‘Glenn Hoddle why aren’t this lot as good as me?’ Body language. Then undermining himself by promising changes and bottling it. I think we will manage eight points but I worry about the longer term with him in charge.
I can't disagree with any of this only to add that he may also be distancing himself from some of the fanbase with some of his antics/decisions over the last few weeks.
My concern about him besides how he's going to look after the young players coming through is his lack of experience especially managing a club in our current position. Lampard and Rooney (both from the same stockpile as our manager) had their grounding in the Championship, a fecking tough league and far tougher than anything Scotland can muster up. Our guy has had it relatively easy up to now and is only getting schooled on the job. He's in for some hard lessons, as we've found to our cost recently. As for something wrong behind the scenes (if that's the case) I know where I'd be looking first.
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Where we were really good last season was with the wide players - Grealish and Bert, pulling back into the box - there Watkins worked well because he was good at finding space and scoring tap ins effectively.
We dont really have that now - its too reliant on crosses from fullbacks or one of the 10s spilting the defence / doing something magic.
I think hes formation/tatics is the issue, and for me at least, he needs to work out how to fix it before the summer. Otherwise, hell have shown he is too limited to manage at this level at this point in his career.
Im not saying I expect us to go on a 10 game unbeaten run, but just have us looking like an improving team like we were in his first 5-6 game. Otherwise, I would be tempted to bin him off rather then spending 100m on players for a manager isn't the right fit for us.
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And another thing hindsight is a wonderful thing for all of us. Whilst I thought Deans time was up, it seemed to me that Purslow in particular was desperate to get a star through the door and he seems to have been literally starstruck instead of analysing who was available in the market that had the necessary experience to do the job. Ours is one of the toughest jobs in football. High fan expectation, starved of any real success over the years, an acceptance of mediocrity and worse over recent years. That’s a hard ship to turn around.
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And I agree again!
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And another thing hindsight is a wonderful thing for all of us. Whilst I thought Deans time was up, it seemed to me that Purslow in particular was desperate to get a star through the door and he seems to have been literally starstruck instead of analysing who was available in the market that had the necessary experience to do the job. Ours is one of the toughest jobs in football. High fan expectation, starved of any real success over the years, an acceptance of mediocrity and worse over recent years. That’s a hard ship to turn around.
People keep saying that Purslow was start struck, but where's the proof of this? I think they wanted a young and upcoming manager, and the fact that the Rangers set up quite closely mirrored what we're trying to do was probably a plus point. I think at the time my first choice was Potter, because he's done a brilliant job at Brighton, but having turned down Spurs I think he's more than happy to carry on with his project there. For people who think that Purslow was star struck, who else should he have considered?
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And another thing hindsight is a wonderful thing for all of us. Whilst I thought Deans time was up, it seemed to me that Purslow in particular was desperate to get a star through the door and he seems to have been literally starstruck instead of analysing who was available in the market that had the necessary experience to do the job. Ours is one of the toughest jobs in football. High fan expectation, starved of any real success over the years, an acceptance of mediocrity and worse over recent years. That’s a hard ship to turn around.
100% - But also, it was a hugely attractive job as all the building blocks are in place - reasonable squad, great batch of youngesters coming through, great fan base, stadium, owners etc. etc.
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And another thing hindsight is a wonderful thing for all of us. Whilst I thought Deans time was up, it seemed to me that Purslow in particular was desperate to get a star through the door and he seems to have been literally starstruck instead of analysing who was available in the market that had the necessary experience to do the job. Ours is one of the toughest jobs in football. High fan expectation, starved of any real success over the years, an acceptance of mediocrity and worse over recent years. That’s a hard ship to turn around.
People keep saying that Purslow was start struck, but where's the proof of this? I think they wanted a young and upcoming manager, and the fact that the Rangers set up quite closely mirrored what we're trying to do was probably a plus point. I think at the time my first choice was Potter, because he's done a brilliant job at Brighton, but having turned down Spurs I think he's more than happy to carry on with his project there. For people who think that Purslow was star struck, who else should he have considered?
This for me is part of the issues / proof: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/steven-gerrard-aston-villa-purslow-b1955681.html
I don't know who else, I think Potter would have been good. I would have loved to see us go out and try and convince a top, top manager, even if it meant waiting to the summer.
I think part of the issue is that we needed to back him up with the players to play his system, and we didnt do as much as we should have done in January.
Likewise, we should have done more to backup dean with the system he wanted to play
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Gerrads system doesn't work without Nakamba, but looked pretty good when he had him available.
Smiths system also didn't work with the squad he had available even with Grealish, and the new system he tried without him (three at the back) also didn't.
We have tried a few systems and each one has different issues, this gives back to when we were trying to get out of the Championship when we also couldn't put a midfield combo together that worked in any system despite having OK players at that level.
The problem is the squad. A lot of the players are not very good, and the ones that are make a whole weaker than the sum of the parts.
Pitarch got potted because of this, but his signings, on the whole, were actually better than Langes. The man that made both appointments and that f the managers should be facing more scrutiny than anyone else for this mess.
I don't think anyone will get more than sporadic runs of good form out of this lot until we finally get a better blend of players that allow us to play 2-3 systems with no gaping holes in a team.
. I do think we will be comfortably above the bottom three come the end of the season, but yes I am worried as we could get sucked in.
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The problem is the squad. A lot of the players are not very good, and the ones that are make a whole weaker than the sum of the parts.
That's it, in a nutshell. Ads made a good point yesterday, that the spine of our team is Mings, McGinn/Luiz, Watkins. That's not a top 8 heartbeat of a side at all. Mings is fine on his day but makes too many mistakes. The others are either out of form or not really good enough, and I'm of the opinion that it's the latter. This is a team that was nosediving down the league and sorting that out is going to take more than a few games.
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I’m not sure we can blame a poor squad for the piss poor way that we played our last 2 games ( plus a few earlier games) Obviously not top 6 quality but I would expect a competent manager to organise things and get them punching above their weight.
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Isn't this part and parcel of being a Villa fan?
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Gerrads system doesn't work without Nakamba, but looked pretty good when he had him available.
Smiths system also didn't work with the squad he had available even with Grealish, and the new system he tried without him (three at the back) also didn't.
We have tried a few systems and each one has different issues, this gives back to when we were trying to get out of the Championship when we also couldn't put a midfield combo together that worked in any system despite having OK players at that level.
The problem is the squad. A lot of the players are not very good, and the ones that are make a whole weaker than the sum of the parts.
Pitarch got potted because of this, but his signings, on the whole, were actually better than Langes. The man that made both appointments and that f the managers should be facing more scrutiny than anyone else for this mess.
I don't think anyone will get more than sporadic runs of good form out of this lot until we finally get a better blend of players that allow us to play 2-3 systems with no gaping holes in a team.
. I do think we will be comfortably above the bottom three come the end of the season, but yes I am worried as we could get sucked in.
Spot on.
At the end of last season, I thought we needed a proper dcm, a number 10 to take over from what barkley was intended to do and cover for Ollie.
We didn't get the dcm under Smith or our current manager in January. Buendia may have been intended to fill the no.10 role.
Obvs grealish left and we also needed one high profile player to replace him (not the 3 purslow ridiculously claimed, when we got them in)
Re-directing some of the grealish money to fill some of the roles we were desperate for would have been a better approach. Instead lange and purslow have us where we are due to a number of their decisions.
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I’m not sure we can blame a poor squad for the piss poor way that we played our last 2 games ( plus a few earlier games) Obviously not top 6 quality but I would expect a competent manager to organise things and get them punching above their weight.
It's two games though. Obviously he needs to turn it round and sharpish, but we've never had a manager in my lifetime who hasn't had a much worse run of form than that. In O'Neill's time, the last manager who gave us consistent top 6 finishes, we called it "March".
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Gerrads system doesn't work without Nakamba, but looked pretty good when he had him available.
Smiths system also didn't work with the squad he had available even with Grealish, and the new system he tried without him (three at the back) also didn't.
We have tried a few systems and each one has different issues, this gives back to when we were trying to get out of the Championship when we also couldn't put a midfield combo together that worked in any system despite having OK players at that level.
The problem is the squad. A lot of the players are not very good, and the ones that are make a whole weaker than the sum of the parts.
Pitarch got potted because of this, but his signings, on the whole, were actually better than Langes. The man that made both appointments and that f the managers should be facing more scrutiny than anyone else for this mess.
I don't think anyone will get more than sporadic runs of good form out of this lot until we finally get a better blend of players that allow us to play 2-3 systems with no gaping holes in a team.
. I do think we will be comfortably above the bottom three come the end of the season, but yes I am worried as we could get sucked in.
Spot on.
At the end of last season, I thought we needed a proper dcm, a number 10 to take over from what barkley was intended to do and cover for Ollie.
We didn't get the dcm under Smith or our current manager in January. Buendia may have been intended to fill the no.10 role.
Obvs grealish left and we also needed one high profile player to replace him (not the 3 purslow ridiculously claimed, when we got them in)
Re-directing some of the grealish money to fill some of the roles we were desperate for would have been a better approach. Instead lange and purslow have us where we are due to a number of their decisions.
Correct, the Grealish money was pissed away and did not address the fundemental needs of the Team.
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I’m not sure we can blame a poor squad for the piss poor way that we played our last 2 games ( plus a few earlier games) Obviously not top 6 quality but I would expect a competent manager to organise things and get them punching above their weight.
It's two games though. Obviously he needs to turn it round and sharpish, but we've never had a manager in my lifetime who hasn't had a much worse run of form than that. In O'Neill's time, the last manager who gave us consistent top 6 finishes, we called it "March".
Yes thats very true. For me, what I found disapointing is we had a mini-preeason, and they seem worse after that. I was expecting us to come out flying from it, but we haven't. Likewise, after he said he would drop players for watford, and didnt - I thought we would come out flying and whilst better, aren't great.
Clearly he needs time, as all managers do - but for me he needs to show more in his next 14 games than he has in the last 8 to remove the concerns that he is out his depth.
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I’m not sure we can blame a poor squad for the piss poor way that we played our last 2 games ( plus a few earlier games) Obviously not top 6 quality but I would expect a competent manager to organise things and get them punching above their weight.
It's two games though. Obviously he needs to turn it round and sharpish, but we've never had a manager in my lifetime who hasn't had a much worse run of form than that. In O'Neill's time, the last manager who gave us consistent top 6 finishes, we called it "March".
I agree, it’s 2 games so not a crisis. The buck does stop with him though, is what I was trying to say. Not the fact that we don’t have a perfectly balanced squad.
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I’m not sure we can blame a poor squad for the piss poor way that we played our last 2 games ( plus a few earlier games) Obviously not top 6 quality but I would expect a competent manager to organise things and get them punching above their weight.
It's two games though. Obviously he needs to turn it round and sharpish, but we've never had a manager in my lifetime who hasn't had a much worse run of form than that. In O'Neill's time, the last manager who gave us consistent top 6 finishes, we called it "March".
Wasn't there that time in the 90s when we scored 1 goal in something like 11 games?
Edit - it was 1 in 8 - and that was a 90th minute own goal by the opposition!
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I’m not sure we can blame a poor squad for the piss poor way that we played our last 2 games ( plus a few earlier games) Obviously not top 6 quality but I would expect a competent manager to organise things and get them punching above their weight.
It's two games though. Obviously he needs to turn it round and sharpish, but we've never had a manager in my lifetime who hasn't had a much worse run of form than that. In O'Neill's time, the last manager who gave us consistent top 6 finishes, we called it "March".
Wasn't there that time in the 90s when we scored 1 goal in something like 11 games?
Edit - it was 1 in 8 - and that was a 90th minute own goal by the opposition!
I remember us having a big goal drought at one point in the early days of BFR.
From Spurs in 8th to Everton in 16th the only team outside the top six that is currently in form is Newcastle.
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The only thing I'm worried about is our inability to break free from this cycle of performance.
New dawn, new hope, turns to false hope and false dawn every 18 months or so for the last 15 years. How much has been spent/wasted on getting us from regular top 6 under MON to 12th in the Premier League via The Championship and 10 managers?
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And another thing hindsight is a wonderful thing for all of us. Whilst I thought Deans time was up, it seemed to me that Purslow in particular was desperate to get a star through the door and he seems to have been literally starstruck instead of analysing who was available in the market that had the necessary experience to do the job. Ours is one of the toughest jobs in football. High fan expectation, starved of any real success over the years, an acceptance of mediocrity and worse over recent years. That’s a hard ship to turn around.
People keep saying that Purslow was start struck, but where's the proof of this? I think they wanted a young and upcoming manager, and the fact that the Rangers set up quite closely mirrored what we're trying to do was probably a plus point. I think at the time my first choice was Potter, because he's done a brilliant job at Brighton, but having turned down Spurs I think he's more than happy to carry on with his project there. For people who think that Purslow was star struck, who else should he have considered?
As current performances and future transfer windows will likely demonstrate, we don’t currently have the players to play the way Gerrard wants and we may not even have the money to. There’s going to be major surgery required to change that. The squad he inherited was filled with natural wide players who will likely now need to be sold for more central attacking players. A new central midfield will be needed and possibly additional full backs. I thought the purpose of the DOF and strategic recruitment was to reduce the need for a higher turnover of players to suit each new manager. They would be appointed to work with a similar system. I don’t think that is going to be the case here which makes you wonder what the criteria was for appointing SG based on his work at Rangers. He was appointed extremely swiftly and it did not strike me at all as if anyone else had been seriously considered or sounded out. Maybe the sounding out had been done behind the scenes already whilst DS was still in post? Don’t know. I would have thought that one of the key roles of the DOF would be to draw up and appoint the next manager. Out of the two scenarios of Lange having an entire globe to look at and coming back with Gerrard as a top choice and Purslow deciding on Gerrard because of his affection for him from Liverpool (as per the link Beard82 shared) I know where I’d put my money if I was a betting man.
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I don't think there's much doubt that Purslow wanted Gerrard and not much more doubt that he wanted him at the first possible opportunity.
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I don't think it's fair to blame Gerrard (or Smith for that matter) for the deficiencies in the DoF role. They did a mostly shit job in the first year back, and haven't found the DM we've desperately needed for 3 years. The injuries to Traore and Bailey also can't be laid at Gerrard's door. We've just got too many players who aren't good enough. Have a look again at some of the games we lost during Smith's last 5 games. The Arsenal match especially (with a full first team practically) was pathetic and we were fortunate not to be 7 or 8 down in the first half. Those players are still the backbone of our team, and half of them just aren't up to it.
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I don't think there's much doubt that Purslow wanted Gerrard and not much more doubt that he wanted him at the first possible opportunity.
Some rumours that Purslow may step down in the summer. I'd consider it if I were him and leave the next CEO to take the flak next season as last few weeks are good evidence that Gerrard isn't going to take us to the heights that appointing him was supposed to herald.
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We are all, me included, assuming that Gerrard will make a good manager but what if we’re wrong?
His only experience to date is in a league where Alex McLeish won the treble.
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I don't think there's much doubt that Purslow wanted Gerrard and not much more doubt that he wanted him at the first possible opportunity.
Well he obviously wanted him else he wouldn't be in a job. I just don't buy the starstruck fanboy claims. Other than Potter (who correct me if I'm wrong, you also wanted) and who almost certainly wouldn't have come, who else was a realistic choice? Even if Potter had come, there's no guarantee he'd be any more able to get a tune out of Luiz and co than Gerrard has, and then you have the added pain in the arse of him being a Villa fan, which I didn't think we needed two managers running.
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As someone said in the post match thread he needs to allow Ketchup again. Seems too serious for me. Relax a little bit. The players might respond. He’s not helped himself recently. Rookie mistakes such as deciding Targett wasn’t good enough after two months, deciding to let him go to a direct rival. Slumping in his chair and pretty much doing the ‘Glenn Hoddle why aren’t this lot as good as me?’ Body language. Then undermining himself by promising changes and bottling it. I think we will manage eight points but I worry about the longer term with him in charge.
You were worried yesterday now its "relax"
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I don't think it's fair to blame Gerrard (or Smith for that matter) for the deficiencies in the DoF role. They did a mostly shit job in the first year back, and haven't found the DM we've desperately needed for 3 years. The injuries to Traore and Bailey also can't be laid at Gerrard's door. We've just got too many players who aren't good enough. Have a look again at some of the games we lost during Smith's last 5 games. The Arsenal match especially (with a full first team practically) was pathetic and we were fortunate not to be 7 or 8 down in the first half. Those players are still the backbone of our team, and half of them just aren't up to it.
If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.
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As someone said in the post match thread he needs to allow Ketchup again. Seems too serious for me. Relax a little bit. The players might respond. He’s not helped himself recently. Rookie mistakes such as deciding Targett wasn’t good enough after two months, deciding to let him go to a direct rival. Slumping in his chair and pretty much doing the ‘Glenn Hoddle why aren’t this lot as good as me?’ Body language. Then undermining himself by promising changes and bottling it. I think we will manage eight points but I worry about the longer term with him in charge.
Regarding him taking two months to decide on Targett, he could have hardly have dropped him if he had no-one decent enough to put in.
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The only thing I'm worried about is our inability to break free from this cycle of performance.
New dawn, new hope, turns to false hope and false dawn every 18 months or so for the last 15 years. How much has been spent/wasted on getting us from regular top 6 under MON to 12th in the Premier League via The Championship and 10 managers?
My worry is the cycle gas accelerated, what used to take 2-3 years now seems to take 2-3 months
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I don't think there's much doubt that Purslow wanted Gerrard and not much more doubt that he wanted him at the first possible opportunity.
Some rumours that Purslow may step down in the summer. I'd consider it if I were him and leave the next CEO to take the flak next season as last few weeks are good evidence that Gerrard isn't going to take us to the heights that appointing him was supposed to herald.
If the SG appointment quickly goes wrong I suspect he won’t have a choice on when he leaves.
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If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.
You make some good points, Leon.
Whether SG can get more out of the squad-mainstay players remains to be seen. I'm guessing that he will clear several out in the summer ... which will be a kill-or-cure approach; high risk but maybe necessary.
What I don't want is that he restocks the squad with MON-esque expensive replacements who fail to raise the overall quality significantly. And, I don't want the academy talent to be ignored.
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We are all, me included, assuming that Gerrard will make a good manager but what if we’re wrong?
His only experience to date is in a league where Alex McLeish won the treble.
This is the big issue - we have appointed a rookie manager, whose name has got him the job, with very little relevant experience. It seems a big risk rebuilding a whole squad in his image, when we don't actually know if he is any good.
But, he will have made it very clear what he was expecting in terms of backing, so its for the club to decide if they have the faith in him - after 8 games I think we all did. After 16 we're not so sure.
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If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.
You make some good points, Leon.
Whether SG can get more out of the squad-mainstay players remains to be seen. I'm guessing that he will clear several out in the summer ... which will be a kill-or-cure approach; high risk but maybe necessary.
What I don't want is that he restocks the squad with MON-esque expensive replacements who fail to raise the overall quality significantly. And, I don't want the academy talent to be ignored.
Those are my concerns too. We’ve got ourselves into a decent position with regards FFP and age profile of the squad from where we were. It would be a massive regret (but a totally Villa thing to do) to waste that position.
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I don't think it's fair to blame Gerrard (or Smith for that matter) for the deficiencies in the DoF role. They did a mostly shit job in the first year back, and haven't found the DM we've desperately needed for 3 years. The injuries to Traore and Bailey also can't be laid at Gerrard's door. We've just got too many players who aren't good enough. Have a look again at some of the games we lost during Smith's last 5 games. The Arsenal match especially (with a full first team practically) was pathetic and we were fortunate not to be 7 or 8 down in the first half. Those players are still the backbone of our team, and half of them just aren't up to it.
If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.
These are the same players who had lost five in a row, and would probably have lost the next five under Smith. Who do you honestly think we'd sell for more than we paid now? I'd argue:
McGinn (signed under Bruce before either Pitarch/Lange were in a job)
Mings - perhaps. High profile, England player.
Konsa - Yes, probably get Ł20m plus now
Martinez - definitely. The shining light of the recruitment policy
After that, I think we'd really struggle. No chance would we get more than we paid for Ings, Watkins, Cash, Luiz, Buendia, Digne, Traore, Sanson, Bailey. Not that they're bad players, we just paid top whack for them and a lot of them haven't even justified that fee yet.
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If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.
You make some good points, Leon.
Whether SG can get more out of the squad-mainstay players remains to be seen. I'm guessing that he will clear several out in the summer ... which will be a kill-or-cure approach; high risk but maybe necessary.
What I don't want is that he restocks the squad with MON-esque expensive replacements who fail to raise the overall quality significantly. And, I don't want the academy talent to be ignored.
If he got rid of Mings, McGinn, Traore, Trezuguet, El Ghazi, Luiz, Ings, Sanson and Watkins and the club chucked another Ł50-100m in the pot then there should be more than enough to get 2 decent strikers, a centre back and a DM in. We would not need to directly replace the wingers or the no. 8s as we do not play with wingers and have better no. 8s in the squad with more coming through.
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I don't think it's fair to blame Gerrard (or Smith for that matter) for the deficiencies in the DoF role. They did a mostly shit job in the first year back, and haven't found the DM we've desperately needed for 3 years. The injuries to Traore and Bailey also can't be laid at Gerrard's door. We've just got too many players who aren't good enough. Have a look again at some of the games we lost during Smith's last 5 games. The Arsenal match especially (with a full first team practically) was pathetic and we were fortunate not to be 7 or 8 down in the first half. Those players are still the backbone of our team, and half of them just aren't up to it.
If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.
These are the same players who had lost five in a row, and would probably have lost the next five under Smith. Who do you honestly think we'd sell for more than we paid now? I'd argue:
McGinn (signed under Bruce before either Pitarch/Lange were in a job)
Mings - perhaps. High profile, England player.
Konsa - Yes, probably get Ł20m plus now
Martinez - definitely. The shining light of the recruitment policy
After that, I think we'd really struggle. No chance would we get more than we paid for Ings, Watkins, Cash, Luiz, Buendia, Digne, Traore, Sanson, Bailey. Not that they're bad players, we just paid top whack for them and a lot of them haven't even justified that fee yet.
We have had offers / interest in Cash, Luiz, Watkins all at much above the price we paid.
These aren't bad players just not played to their strengths this season by either manager.
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Who has shown an interest/bid for Watkins at more than we paid?
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I don't think it's fair to blame Gerrard (or Smith for that matter) for the deficiencies in the DoF role. They did a mostly shit job in the first year back, and haven't found the DM we've desperately needed for 3 years. The injuries to Traore and Bailey also can't be laid at Gerrard's door. We've just got too many players who aren't good enough. Have a look again at some of the games we lost during Smith's last 5 games. The Arsenal match especially (with a full first team practically) was pathetic and we were fortunate not to be 7 or 8 down in the first half. Those players are still the backbone of our team, and half of them just aren't up to it.
If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.
These are the same players who had lost five in a row, and would probably have lost the next five under Smith. Who do you honestly think we'd sell for more than we paid now? I'd argue:
McGinn (signed under Bruce before either Pitarch/Lange were in a job)
Mings - perhaps. High profile, England player.
Konsa - Yes, probably get Ł20m plus now
Martinez - definitely. The shining light of the recruitment policy
After that, I think we'd really struggle. No chance would we get more than we paid for Ings, Watkins, Cash, Luiz, Buendia, Digne, Traore, Sanson, Bailey. Not that they're bad players, we just paid top whack for them and a lot of them haven't even justified that fee yet.
We have had offers / interest in Cash, Luiz, Watkins all at much above the price we paid.
These aren't bad players just not played to their strengths this season by either manager.
Or - they don't have the strengths we need to play in one of three formations under two managers this season. They may be fine in different set ups but they have been bad players in ours this season. In the case of Watkins and Luiz I think they probably are not very good full stop.
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I don't think there's much doubt that Purslow wanted Gerrard and not much more doubt that he wanted him at the first possible opportunity.
Some rumours that Purslow may step down in the summer. I'd consider it if I were him and leave the next CEO to take the flak next season as last few weeks are good evidence that Gerrard isn't going to take us to the heights that appointing him was supposed to herald.
If the SG appointment quickly goes wrong I suspect he won’t have a choice on when he leaves.
Yeah the owners won't be impressed if we continue nosediving and finish up like a McLeish/Lambert position of 16th on 38 points.
Mind you it was said they wanted a manager with a profile given the Henry interest when they first came in so think they'd have been pretty happy with Gerrard pick.
Not a good look though to sack a popular manager for five straight defeats and just above relegation zone....and then end the season with his replacement in similar position.
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Who has shown an interest/bid for Watkins at more than we paid?
Arsenal were meant to be interested in him for a "mooted" 45m.
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These are the same players who had lost five in a row, and would probably have lost the next five under Smith. Who do you honestly think we'd sell for more than we paid now? I'd argue:
McGinn (signed under Bruce before either Pitarch/Lange were in a job)
Mings - perhaps. High profile, England player.
Konsa - Yes, probably get Ł20m plus now
Martinez - definitely. The shining light of the recruitment policy
After that, I think we'd really struggle. No chance would we get more than we paid for Ings, Watkins, Cash, Luiz, Buendia, Digne, Traore, Sanson, Bailey. Not that they're bad players, we just paid top whack for them and a lot of them haven't even justified that fee yet.
I'd hope we would not be selling Konsa, but he would fetch at least Ł30m, given the prices of other CB recently (MaGuire, Verane, Ben White, Nathan Ake, for example).
Watkins, Cash and Luiz would sell for more than we paid, for sure.
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Who has shown an interest/bid for Watkins at more than we paid?
Been rumours of Arsenal and Spurs looking at him as a squad striker.
Think Howe would take him at Newcastle although them signing Chris Wood makes it less likely.
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Who has shown an interest/bid for Watkins at more than we paid?
I would love to see these offers.
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Just seen these comments from Gerrard about Watkins:
He explained: “You are not going to keep every person happy every single game. It’s normal for people to criticise, point fingers, to be fickle. If you’re a player and you go looking for that I’m sure you’ll find it. For me it’s important the players remain focused, they believe in what we’re doing and they focus on their individual performances.
“I don’t think you gain anything, and you’re not going to improve yourself or your performance if you go looking for outside noise.
“It’s out there. It’s out there for me, it’s out there for all the players and if you want to find it, you can find it. My advice to the players is to ignore what’s being said on the outside and focus on what you have to do on the inside.
“I’m not saying stop social media. But if you’re on social media and you’re looking for negative comments and you don’t feel good about them then you’ve probably got yourself to blame
FFS. Gerrard out! ;)
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Just seen these comments from Gerrard about Watkins:
He explained: “You are not going to keep every person happy every single game. It’s normal for people to criticise, point fingers, to be fickle. If you’re a player and you go looking for that I’m sure you’ll find it. For me it’s important the players remain focused, they believe in what we’re doing and they focus on their individual performances.
“I don’t think you gain anything, and you’re not going to improve yourself or your performance if you go looking for outside noise.
“It’s out there. It’s out there for me, it’s out there for all the players and if you want to find it, you can find it. My advice to the players is to ignore what’s being said on the outside and focus on what you have to do on the inside.
“I’m not saying stop social media. But if you’re on social media and you’re looking for negative comments and you don’t feel good about them then you’ve probably got yourself to blame
FFS. Gerrard out! ;)
IS SG responding to something?
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Just seen these comments from Gerrard about Watkins:
He explained: “You are not going to keep every person happy every single game. It’s normal for people to criticise, point fingers, to be fickle. If you’re a player and you go looking for that I’m sure you’ll find it. For me it’s important the players remain focused, they believe in what we’re doing and they focus on their individual performances.
“I don’t think you gain anything, and you’re not going to improve yourself or your performance if you go looking for outside noise.
“It’s out there. It’s out there for me, it’s out there for all the players and if you want to find it, you can find it. My advice to the players is to ignore what’s being said on the outside and focus on what you have to do on the inside.
“I’m not saying stop social media. But if you’re on social media and you’re looking for negative comments and you don’t feel good about them then you’ve probably got yourself to blame
FFS. Gerrard out! ;)
IS SG responding to something?
He was asked about the H&V forum
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Who has shown an interest/bid for Watkins at more than we paid?
Arsenal were meant to be interested in him for a "mooted" 45m.
:D :D :D :D :D
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Just seen these comments from Gerrard about Watkins:
He explained: “You are not going to keep every person happy every single game. It’s normal for people to criticise, point fingers, to be fickle. If you’re a player and you go looking for that I’m sure you’ll find it. For me it’s important the players remain focused, they believe in what we’re doing and they focus on their individual performances.
“I don’t think you gain anything, and you’re not going to improve yourself or your performance if you go looking for outside noise.
“It’s out there. It’s out there for me, it’s out there for all the players and if you want to find it, you can find it. My advice to the players is to ignore what’s being said on the outside and focus on what you have to do on the inside.
“I’m not saying stop social media. But if you’re on social media and you’re looking for negative comments and you don’t feel good about them then you’ve probably got yourself to blame
FFS. Gerrard out! ;)
This is actually bang on
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I don't think it's fair to blame Gerrard (or Smith for that matter) for the deficiencies in the DoF role. They did a mostly shit job in the first year back, and haven't found the DM we've desperately needed for 3 years. The injuries to Traore and Bailey also can't be laid at Gerrard's door. We've just got too many players who aren't good enough. Have a look again at some of the games we lost during Smith's last 5 games. The Arsenal match especially (with a full first team practically) was pathetic and we were fortunate not to be 7 or 8 down in the first half. Those players are still the backbone of our team, and half of them just aren't up to it.
If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.
These are the same players who had lost five in a row, and would probably have lost the next five under Smith. Who do you honestly think we'd sell for more than we paid now? I'd argue:
McGinn (signed under Bruce before either Pitarch/Lange were in a job)
Mings - perhaps. High profile, England player.
Konsa - Yes, probably get Ł20m plus now
Martinez - definitely. The shining light of the recruitment policy
After that, I think we'd really struggle. No chance would we get more than we paid for Ings, Watkins, Cash, Luiz, Buendia, Digne, Traore, Sanson, Bailey. Not that they're bad players, we just paid top whack for them and a lot of them haven't even justified that fee yet.
Some of those names are out of form. But considering their age, the fact many won’t be on top dollar and many can still develop will all be things other clubs will consider and will be factored in to a transfer fee. I think if the same question was asked 7 months ago in the summer, the answers would be different. I think the way the squad has been built since 2018 has been a significant improvement on some of our approaches in the past which left us just trying to get wages off the books. Improvements are needed but how many other teams in the PL would you swap squads with? SG needs to show more.
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I don't think it's fair to blame Gerrard (or Smith for that matter) for the deficiencies in the DoF role. They did a mostly shit job in the first year back, and haven't found the DM we've desperately needed for 3 years. The injuries to Traore and Bailey also can't be laid at Gerrard's door. We've just got too many players who aren't good enough. Have a look again at some of the games we lost during Smith's last 5 games. The Arsenal match especially (with a full first team practically) was pathetic and we were fortunate not to be 7 or 8 down in the first half. Those players are still the backbone of our team, and half of them just aren't up to it.
If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.
These are the same players who had lost five in a row, and would probably have lost the next five under Smith. Who do you honestly think we'd sell for more than we paid now? I'd argue:
McGinn (signed under Bruce before either Pitarch/Lange were in a job)
Mings - perhaps. High profile, England player.
Konsa - Yes, probably get Ł20m plus now
Martinez - definitely. The shining light of the recruitment policy
After that, I think we'd really struggle. No chance would we get more than we paid for Ings, Watkins, Cash, Luiz, Buendia, Digne, Traore, Sanson, Bailey. Not that they're bad players, we just paid top whack for them and a lot of them haven't even justified that fee yet.
Some of those names are out of form. But considering their age, the fact many won’t be on top dollar and many can still develop will all be things other clubs will consider and will be factored in to a transfer fee. I think if the same question was asked 7 months ago in the summer, the answers would be different. I think the way the squad has been built since 2018 has been a significant improvement on some of our approaches in the past which left us just trying to get wages off the books. Improvements are needed but how many other teams in the PL would you swap squads with? SG needs to show more.
Yeah this is where I am. I hope he will turn it round, as I like the way he wants to play, I just think he needs to show he can learn and adjust his thinking.
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We are all, me included, assuming that Gerrard will make a good manager but what if we’re wrong?
His only experience to date is in a league where Alex McLeish won the treble.
This is the big issue - we have appointed a rookie manager, whose name has got him the job, with very little relevant experience. It seems a big risk rebuilding a whole squad in his image, when we don't actually know if he is any good.
But, he will have made it very clear what he was expecting in terms of backing, so its for the club to decide if they have the faith in him - after 8 games I think we all did. After 16 we're not so sure.
You've nailed my biggest concern right now, namely reshaping a whole squad to fit a system I'm not sure will work, and then watching a year/18 months down the line as the new man comes in and demands the same. 18 months after that and we're what Everton are now. Again.
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Our only real alternative to Luiz/McGinn is Tim
Ireg Iroge Orega, erm, Tim. Gerrard was getting a tune out of Marvelous for pretty much the first time since he's been here, but obviously his injury was a set back. McGinn and Luiz were mostly underperforming under Smith this season as well, so not like it's a new occurence under Gerrard.
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I don't think it's fair to blame Gerrard (or Smith for that matter) for the deficiencies in the DoF role. They did a mostly shit job in the first year back, and haven't found the DM we've desperately needed for 3 years. The injuries to Traore and Bailey also can't be laid at Gerrard's door. We've just got too many players who aren't good enough. Have a look again at some of the games we lost during Smith's last 5 games. The Arsenal match especially (with a full first team practically) was pathetic and we were fortunate not to be 7 or 8 down in the first half. Those players are still the backbone of our team, and half of them just aren't up to it.
If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.
These are the same players who had lost five in a row, and would probably have lost the next five under Smith. Who do you honestly think we'd sell for more than we paid now? I'd argue:
McGinn (signed under Bruce before either Pitarch/Lange were in a job)
Mings - perhaps. High profile, England player.
Konsa - Yes, probably get Ł20m plus now
Martinez - definitely. The shining light of the recruitment policy
After that, I think we'd really struggle. No chance would we get more than we paid for Ings, Watkins, Cash, Luiz, Buendia, Digne, Traore, Sanson, Bailey. Not that they're bad players, we just paid top whack for them and a lot of them haven't even justified that fee yet.
If the players were that shit, why did we get rid of Smith, who knew them and had success with them (relative to where we were), and appoint an inexperienced manager who has done fuck all except win a two horse race.
If you believed that strongly that Smith should go, because he couldn't get a tune out of shit players, why should we have faith that the new manager will do better?
Regarding player value. Watkins (Ł45m), Cash (Ł40m, Luiz (depending on contact situation), will all sell for more than we paid. Bailey hasn't really played, and Buendia hasn't been here long but from what we've seen I'd argue he'd go for at least the same as we paid. Ings was always going to be top whack and just depreciate. Traore is an odd one. Digne would probably go for the same if not more, given his contract.
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If the players were that shit, why did we get rid of Smith (snip)
The year since January under Smith gave just over a point a game, and then this season happened and concluded his time with 5 appalling defeats. His time was up. So far, despite the last 2-3 disappointing results, Gerrard has done better. 17 points from 13 games compared to 10 from 11. But anybody expecting him to sort out all of the problems in a third of a season is going to be disappointed and probably has an agenda in the first place.
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If the players were that shit, why did we get rid of Smith (snip)
The year since January under Smith gave just over a point a game, and then this season happened and concluded his time with 5 appalling defeats. His time was up. So far, despite the last 2-3 disappointing results, Gerrard has done better. 17 points from 13 games compared to 10 from 11. But anybody expecting him to sort out all of the problems in a third of a season is going to be disappointed and probably has an agenda in the first place.
The problem is that, so far, he’s made the problems worse rather than sorted them out. We’ve got better players that Watford but despite us having the majority of the possession Martinez was the only keeper making saves and they scored the only goal.
His seeming refusal to change just looks like niaeve stubbornness at the moment and is perhaps a reflection of his inexperience. I want him to succeed but he has done little to inspire confidence so far.
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I think we’ll be ok with Gerrard
At least he has a system of playing and a definitive plan
Unlike every other manager we’ve had over the last 10 years including Smith in the end
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The problem is that, so far, he’s made the problems worse rather than sorted them out. We’ve got better players that Watford but despite us having the majority of the possession Martinez was the only keeper making saves and they scored the only goal.
His seeming refusal to change just looks like niaeve stubbornness at the moment and is perhaps a reflection of his inexperience. I want him to succeed but he has done little to inspire confidence so far.
How on earth are we worse off? We've won more games, got more points, and have generally played better football.
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The problem is that, so far, he’s made the problems worse rather than sorted them out. We’ve got better players that Watford but despite us having the majority of the possession Martinez was the only keeper making saves and they scored the only goal.
His seeming refusal to change just looks like niaeve stubbornness at the moment and is perhaps a reflection of his inexperience. I want him to succeed but he has done little to inspire confidence so far.
How on earth are we worse off? We've won more games, got more points, and have generally played better football.
We have also played more games. Last 10 games points are exactly the same as the first 10 games this season. Dean smiths last 13 league games in charge is the exact same points haul as SG 13 league games.
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The problem is that, so far, he’s made the problems worse rather than sorted them out. We’ve got better players that Watford but despite us having the majority of the possession Martinez was the only keeper making saves and they scored the only goal.
His seeming refusal to change just looks like niaeve stubbornness at the moment and is perhaps a reflection of his inexperience. I want him to succeed but he has done little to inspire confidence so far.
How on earth are we worse off? We've won more games, got more points, and have generally played better football.
We’ve just lost at home to a side who hadn’t won since November and who a month ago were beaten 3-0 at home by Norwich. The week before that we lost to another relegation threatened side without scoring in either game and we’ve only won once in the last 2 months.
I really want him to succeed and I’m not pining for Smith but at the moment it’s a concern that his one plan has been sussed out by opposing managers and he’s struggling to do anything else. I had hopes after his comments following the Newcastle non-performance that he understood but nothing really changed.
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My views entirely Chris.
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It would take a complete and unprecedented collapse to get relegated from here on the points we have already. I’d be amazed if such a collapse has happened to any club. We’d have to lose or draw almost all of our remaining games.
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How anyone is not worried sick after collecting 1 point against absolutely dreadful opposition in the last three fixtures is baffling. We scraped a win against a very poor Everton side and a Draw against the worst Manchester United outfit we have seen for a very long time.
The players look lost, the Head Coach is slumped back on his chair and the Board did not address the positions we were crying out for in the January window
Instead we loaned out some very good and reliable players and brought in Stevens mate from Barcelona . The bench looks extremely weak and we leant a direct opponent our Left Back , absolute insanity and extremely poor management from top to bottom.
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It's a, it's a, it's a...
DISGRACE!
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How anyone is not worried sick after collecting 1 point against absolutely dreadful opposition in the last three fixtures is baffling. We scraped a win against a very poor Everton side and a Draw against the worst Manchester United outfit we have seen for a very long time.
The players look lost, the Head Coach is slumped back on his chair and the Board did not address the positions we were crying out for in the January window
Instead we loaned out some very good and reliable players and brought in Stevens mate from Barcelona . The bench looks extremely weak and we leant a direct opponent our Left Back , absolute insanity and extremely poor management from top to bottom.
You get worried sick over paint on a rail.
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I'm not worried because I'm comfortable in the knowledge that there's the square root of fuck all I can do about it. Pissed off, almost angry, flabbergasted, bemused, I'm all of these of late. But it's not going to keep me up at night.
I don't think we're going down, anyway. Unless this is the coming to fruition of some dastardly plan Slippy's had ever since we spoiled his 35th birthday plans...
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It was his daughter's 18th birthday on Sat - according to the pre-match presser. He planned on enjoying that and watching the boxing. Imagine following that up by doing a de-brief today of Saturday's performance.
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It was his daughter's 18th birthday on Sat - according to the pre-match presser. He planned on enjoying that and watching the boxing. Imagine following that up by doing a de-brief today of Saturday's performance.
who?
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The so called offers for Watkins and Luiz came from Football Insider no doubts. If they come again, and they are anywhere near what was quoted, I am sure we'd rip their hands off.
I wonder whether Gerrard has called the players out too early and they are now not playing for him. None of the players who left would make a difference to the results, let's be honest, so he did a good job getting wages off the bill but FFS sign a DCM. We can all see this is a massive problem and cost Dean his job. Other than his honesty, I see nothing from Gerrard to think we will see the top 8 any time soon. Sometimes you go backwards to come forwards but this is super ugly and yes, I am a tad worried. We have to play Burnley twice, Norwich, Leeds. Win those and we are fine, however, other than Norwich, we seem to be struggling to over-power the Burnley's and Leeds of this world.
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It's a, it's a, it's a...
DISGRACE!
Until I clicked on the spoiler I thought you were channeling your inner Neil Tennant.
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Me too. I imagine Risso was in the Housemartins' corner at school whenever the choice between them and the Pets came-up though.
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It was his daughter's 18th birthday on Sat - according to the pre-match presser. He planned on enjoying that and watching the boxing. Imagine following that up by doing a de-brief today of Saturday's performance.
who?
Our manager.
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Dan Bardell tweeted that we always have a crap period during the season, and now we have had two. Under MoN, we used to refer to it as the mid season slump.
I am convinced we will have a fantastic run of form before the season is out. I will be betting on it as well. It would be rude not so to do.
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Dan Bardell tweeted that we always have a crap period during the season, and now we have had two. Under MoN, we used to refer to it as the mid season slump.
I am convinced we will have a fantastic run of form before the season is out. I will be betting on it as well. It would be rude not so to do.
Well we need to get an average of two points a game between now and the end of the season just to get to last season’s total. So, basically nine wins, which would be the definition of a fantastic run in.
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Who is Dan Bardell?
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Who is Dan Bardell?
He hosts the Villa View podcast and also works for the Athletic.
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Me too. I imagine Risso was in the Housemartins' corner at school whenever the choice between them and the Pets came-up though.
He’s Hopelessly Devoted To Them.
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Who is Dan Bardell?
Does the Villa View and 1874 podcasts and appears to be an up and coming self made Villa corespondent for a number of media outlets.
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Who is Dan Bardell?
Does the Villa View and 1874 podcasts and appears to be an up and coming self made Villa corespondent for a number of media outlets.
Does he make money out of Villa fans?
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I suppose so and by being a Villa fan, much like yourself I presume. Think the Villa View first started as a YouTube channel but I only know it from listening to the podcast, he’s also on the 1874 podcast with Greg Evans by The Athletic and I’ve also heard him on some other general football podcast as well as SSN.
As I said started from nothing and seams to be doing well, fair play to him.
Edit, was going to do the spelling mistake but sure they’ll be some puns!!
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In a word, no.
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Who is Dan Bardell?
Does the Villa View and 1874 podcasts and appears to be an up and coming self made Villa corespondent for a number of media outlets.
Does he make money out of Villa fans?
I am on "political twitter" but I have followed a few Villa related posters over the years. Don't think I have ever listened to a Villa podcast.
I probably should have just quoted the tweet, but I was very, very stoned innit.
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Who is Dan Bardell?
Does the Villa View and 1874 podcasts and appears to be an up and coming self made Villa corespondent for a number of media outlets.
Does he make money out of Villa fans?
Only you do that, mercilessly.
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Wrong thread
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Dan has pet bunnies so I will not have a word said against him.
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Who is Dan Bardell?
Does the Villa View and 1874 podcasts and appears to be an up and coming self made Villa corespondent for a number of media outlets.
Does he make money out of Villa fans?
Only you do that, mercilessly.
He made me buy two fanzines once, and I'd already bought it from Percy the week before. I only went to say hello.
It was like an out-of-body experience, I was watching myself agree to the purchase without any control of the situation. Truly a master at work.
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There was always a worry that the opening day shitshow, the Wolves collapse and the five straight losses would catch up with us if we had a loss of form later in the season.
Losing to Newcastle and Watford and surrendering a two goal lead against Leeds has put us back in the relegation picture.
We desperately need a win to settle things down and keep us out of the mire.
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Who is Dan Bardell?
Does the Villa View and 1874 podcasts and appears to be an up and coming self made Villa corespondent for a number of media outlets.
Does he make money out of Villa fans?
Only you do that, mercilessly.
He made me buy two fanzines once, and I'd already bought it from Percy the week before. I only went to say hello.
It was like an out-of-body experience, I was watching myself agree to the purchase without any control of the situation. Truly a master at work.
It's kind of you to say so.
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There was always a worry that the opening day shitshow, the Wolves collapse and the five straight losses would catch up with us if we had a loss of form later in the season.
Losing to Newcastle and Watford and surrendering a two goal lead against Leeds has put us back in the relegation picture.
We desperately need a win to settle things down and keep us out of the mire.
We're 12th and effectively 10 points clear of the bottom three. The bottom three have all been averaging about ľ of a point a per game. I know that we haven't played well for the last few games, but things would have to go spectacularly wrong for us to get dragged into the relegation scrap. We're certainly not in it at the moment.
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Oh Risso this positivity about our situation just doesn't suit you! 😉
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Oh Risso this positivity about our situation just doesn't suit you! 😉
Never fear, two more defeats and the pitchfork will be out of the cupboard and sharpened!
But seriously, there's a number of factors that need to be sorted, some in Gerrard's control, and some not. The poor/inconsistent form of McGinn, Luiz and Watkins is one, and that predates his arrival. We've also lost 17 goals from the side last year in El Ghazi and Traore (loaned out and permacrocked) and as energetic as good on the ball as Buendia is he just doesn't offer the same threat.
We just need to see what the next few games and the rest of the seaosn brings. Win the next two and we could be up to 9th/10th and Gerrard would be averaging 1.5 points a game. Lose the next two though, and I imagine all hell will break loose.
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Our last three fixtures have seen us lose ground on three teams below us. We also handed Brentford a win at the start of the year. I appreciate that we are a nice bit clear of the drop zone as things stand but we absolutely need to pull our socks up now or we will be in the thick of it in a few weeks.
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Of course not
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The last two games (and the loss to Brentford to a certain extent) have shown we are not good at dealing with teams that sit back, let us have the ball, and then hit us on the break. The current system doesn't seem to do well when we have a lot of time with the ball in the attacking third and have to recycle phases of possession. We're not creating clear-cut chances when we don't attack from the middle of the park (or even further back).
When we play teams who actively try to beat us in their own proactive way, we seem to do better (unless they are top 4 teams), as that seems to play into the strengths of the formation Gerrard wants. Brighton, Leicester, and to a certain extent Leeds are examples of that.
I don't know what the answer is, but Gerrard's team have surely noticed this pattern and are trying to find ways to address it. I'm certainly not worried about relegation, because against teams proactively chasing wins I think we'll do OK, but we need to find a way (or a formation) to win against teams that want to defend first and play on the break - because right now that's our Achilles heel.
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Seven points off the relegation zone now with two games against Burnley.
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Six points off 9th with a game against Brighton.
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Could well need 38 points to stay up this season. Can we muster another 11 points given the current dire form?
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We need to beat Brighton to shut the noise off.
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Leeds will be worried, no Bamford looking likely before end of the season
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Leeds will be worried, no Bamford looking likely before end of the season
Think it's Watford, Norwich and one of Brentford or Leeds. Would prefer it to be Everton though.
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Watford hammered tonight at home to Palace. Everton, Watford, Leeds, Newcastle 4 points from 12 there is horrific (and fortunate to get 4). Burnley have pulled Everton and Brentford back into it tonight. If our current level of performance continues, decent teams will hammer us.
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Leeds will be worried, no Bamford looking likely before end of the season
Think it's Watford, Norwich and one of Brentford or Leeds. Would prefer it to be Everton though.
Leeds please, awful club and fans.
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If anyone's genuinely worried you can get 90/1 on us going down with Paddy Power. I'll be keeping my money in my pocket.
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Burnley won't go down.
Watched them tonight and was impressed for once with what they got going in attack. Weghorst is looking good as suspected and tbh the type of focal point we're missing in attack. They weren't just pumping long diagonals up to him all night, instead he had some really good link up play with Dwight McNeill.
And they've played Spurs, Brighton,Liverpool and Arsenal and conceded just one goal so fair to say their defence is back to its best. We'll probably struggle to get more than a point off them in the run in like last season.
Worth noting Everton have Man. City and Spurs next two and Brentford-Newcastle is on Saturday so serious issues if we're closer to those teams in two weeks time.
Not worried. Yet.
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I’m worried about lots of things in real life - but Villa, no. The relegation talk is as nonsense as the talk we should be challenging the top 6.
We are a mid table PL side - fact. We won’t challenge higher until there is substantial squad upgrades in the spine of the team - CH and DM. This summer is another test of the owners ambitions. If we just tinker, another mid table season beckons.
Now back to my worries - I’ll start with global warming!!
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If anyone's genuinely worried you can get 90/1 on us going down with Paddy Power. I'll be keeping my money in my pocket.
Same. Recent weeks have been disappointing, but we'll be fine. Whether 'fine' is good enough is another question, of course.
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I'm more worried about Ukraine 🇺🇦, Covid-19, fuel prices, work, kids, and the weather.
However, I'm more pissed off with the Villa.
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I'm still wanting Burnley to win games in the hope that either Newcastle or Leeds go down. It looks like it might be a disappointing end to the season for us, but unless something extremely dramatric happens we won't be in a significant relegation battle. I think it'll be Norwich, Watford and Brentford.
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Every chance that the season will be suspended as the conflagration in Europe takes hold.
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I'm still wanting Burnley to win games in the hope that either Newcastle or Leeds go down.
The way we're both playing at the moment, I can see Burnley beating us twice.
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Every chance that the season will be suspended as the conflagration in Europe takes hold.
You think that's a possibility?
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Every chance that the season will be suspended as the conflagration in Europe takes hold.
No chance
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I’m nowhere near worried as I was this time 3 years ago when we’d just lost to Brentford and Albion and drew at Stoke. We had Derby next and we probably needed to win our next 10 games to make the playoffs!
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If we don't win one of the next two games and the bottom clubs keep picking up points then I'll start to worry.
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Every chance that the season will be suspended as the conflagration in Europe takes hold.
You think that's a possibility?
He thinks Putin has invaded Uckfield.
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Only 3 teams have lost more than us this season. We need to stop throwing games away being shit.
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Who is Dan Bardell?
He hosts the Villa View podcast and also works for the Athletic.
Oh!
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I'd be getting worried if I were a Leeds fan.
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I am always worried when it comes to the Villa but as said before i should be happy not to support Leeds.
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Unless you’re a Leeds or Brentford fan, stop worrying and enjoy the rest of the weekend.
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That win keeps us well clear of the mire. Annoyingly Newcastle pulling clear of it too.
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8 more points should do it. Hopefully we can get to 45 points at least?
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Good to push ourselves two additional point further away from the drop zone. Hopefully looking up now instead of over our shoulder.
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How anyone is not worried sick after collecting 1 point against absolutely dreadful opposition in the last three fixtures is baffling. We scraped a win against a very poor Everton side and a Draw against the worst Manchester United outfit we have seen for a very long time.
The players look lost, the Head Coach is slumped back on his chair and the Board did not address the positions we were crying out for in the January window
Instead we loaned out some very good and reliable players and brought in Stevens mate from Barcelona . The bench looks extremely weak and we leant a direct opponent our Left Back , absolute insanity and extremely poor management from top to bottom.
How are you feeling now mate? Steven's mate from Barcelona seems to be doing quite well, no?
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Very quiet when things go well, again.
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He's a Yabba Dabba doom monger! I haven't checked if that's already been done, apologies if it has.
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Not so worried after two good performances - long may it last.
I like Gerrard, but was getting concerned that we were in a rut, playing badly and losing a lot. Pleased to see him change things up tactically and even more pleased that it seems to have worked. Ings and Watkins looked like a decent partnership against Southampton, and though it is harsh on Buendia the whole team looks better with Coutinho alone rather than the pair of them. Defence looking better with the fullbacks sitting a little deeper, and even the hapless Luiz looked great this weekend!
Roll on signing the mythical DM (or Nakamba returning) as think we will start to look much better then.
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Everyone is now ace until they fuck up again.
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We are still only 12 points clear of trouble.
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We are still only 12 points clear of trouble.
There's as much chance of Burnely making up those 12 points on us as there is of us making up the 12 points needed to finish above the team in the current European places.
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Even with the recent bad results, our points per game ratio under Gerrard so far is 1.53, which in most seasons would get you to 7th or 8th.
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If anyone's genuinely worried you can get 500/1 on us going down with Paddy Power. I'll be keeping my money in my pocket
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Even with the recent bad results, our points per game ratio under Gerrard so far is 1.53, which in most seasons would get you to 7th or 8th.
The question now, in my humble opinion, is whether we should be aiming to improve on that over the last 12 games. Tall order but with Coutinho, Digne and Chambers added, along with a fit Bailey at his disposal.....
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Even with the recent bad results, our points per game ratio under Gerrard so far is 1.53, which in most seasons would get you to 7th or 8th.
Signs are good for next season if we keep it up, or improve. Likely we will improve too as he adjusts the squad and has a proper pre-season with no fannying around in a park watching Grealish take the piss.
Clearly a big upgrade on Smith anyway.
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Even with the recent bad results, our points per game ratio under Gerrard so far is 1.53, which in most seasons would get you to 7th or 8th.
The question now, in my humble opinion, is whether we should be aiming to improve on that over the last 12 games. Tall order but with Coutinho, Digne and Chambers added, along with a fit Bailey at his disposal.....
I'm sure he'll be looking to improve on the points tally as much as possible. The finishing position is out of his hands mostly though, as obviously he's hamstrung by the points total he inherited.
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Clearly a big upgrade on Smith anyway.
And Rémi Garde?! ;)
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Even with the recent bad results, our points per game ratio under Gerrard so far is 1.53, which in most seasons would get you to 7th or 8th.
The question now, in my humble opinion, is whether we should be aiming to improve on that over the last 12 games. Tall order but with Coutinho, Digne and Chambers added, along with a fit Bailey at his disposal.....
I think if we can get 51 points, and hopefully 9/10th that would be a good way to end the season - well poised to push on, and hopefully with a bit of momentum.
I would be very happy with that given we have had two longish runs of poor form this season.
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We are still only 12 points clear of trouble.
Yes but there’s a fair bit of absolute rubbish in those 12 points so I’m not worried in the slightest
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Bookies reckon we're reasonably safe, you can get 250-1 for us to go down.
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We will be ok 100%
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I’m always pessimistic about us, but I’m looking up the table, not down
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Another 20 points from our remaining games wouldn't be unreasonable would it? Especially now we seem to be getting a run of form.
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Another 20 points from our remaining games wouldn't be unreasonable would it? Especially now we seem to be getting a run of form.
It would be solid European qualification form to get 20 points from the last 12 games, and we have to play Liverpool and Man City again, so it would be pretty good going to get that many - but it would certainly put us in a brilliant position going into next season, however, I don't think we quite have that consistency... yet.
20 points from here in would also put us on 26 points from the last 14 games of the season, which would be the equivalent of 70 points over a season and champions league qualification in most years.
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Another 20 points from our remaining games wouldn't be unreasonable would it? Especially now we seem to be getting a run of form.
It would be solid European qualification form to get 20 points from the last 12 games, and we have to play Liverpool and Man City again, so it would be pretty good going to get that many - but it would certainly put us in a brilliant position going into next season, however, I don't think we quite have that consistency... yet.
20 points from here in would also put us on 26 points from the last 14 games of the season, which would be the equivalent of 70 points over a season and champions league qualification in most years.
I was thinking 1.5 points a game from here as a best case scenario. But then again I'm an eternal pessimist.
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If anyone's genuinely worried you can get 500/1 on us going down with Paddy Power. I'll be keeping my money in my pocket
Bookies reckon we're reasonably safe, you can get 250-1 for us to go down.
So the odds on us going down have tumbled in a hour. NOW I'm worried!
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So the odds on us going down have tumbled in a hour. NOW I'm worried!
TelfordVilla and Wilma must have piled on when they saw the odds at PP.
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Bit harsh. I expect top 10. Anything less and the manager must go.
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Bit harsh. I expect top 10. Anything less and the manager must go.
If we finished 11th, he won't be going anywhere. Sorry to disapoint you.
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Bit harsh. I expect top 10. Anything less and the manager must go.
You are absolutely deluded if you think or believe that.
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Bit harsh. I expect top 10. Anything less and the manager must go.
why do you think that ?
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Bit harsh. I expect top 10. Anything less and the manager must go.
why do you think that ?
Judging by his previous posts, it's because Gerrard isn't Dean Smith.
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We are still only 12 points clear of trouble.
Yes but there’s a fair bit of absolute rubbish in those 12 points so I’m not worried in the slightest
Looking at the teams at the bottom and their remaining games I reckon 18th will end up with 34-35 points so we're almost there already, in my opinion.
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I think 9th is a realistic possibility, given the group we're competing with for that spot (Southampton/Palace/Leicester/Brighton), all have similar inconsistencies to us. Wolves have lost three on the bounce and are unfortunately STILL seven points clear of us, so 8th probably beyond us.
I would accept 10th/11th, given Gerrard effectively started at between -1 and -4 points against the teams we are competing with when he took over.
We're not going to get relegated, we're not going to qualify for Europe, and we're not going to win a cup, so for me, the biggest thing for the rest of this season is to see a pattern of play develop and evolve and have a team that plays Gerrard's way confidently and consistently. I don't mind losing games along the way, if we're playing OK and trying to implement his plan. I just don't want to see any more lacklustre displays like Newcastle, or ineffective displays like Watford.
Ending the season having played 10 or so games in European qualification form would do wonders for the squad's confidence, and would no doubt help with recruitment in the summer, given we're not going to have European football on offer. That's what I want to see.
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Bit harsh. I expect top 10. Anything less and the manager must go.
why do you think that ?
Judging by his previous posts, it's because Gerrard isn't Dean Smith.
it's not that he isn't Dean Smith, it's that if he doesn't finish top ten then he is no improvement on Dean Smith.
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Bit harsh. I expect top 10. Anything less and the manager must go.
why do you think that ?
Judging by his previous posts, it's because Gerrard isn't Dean Smith.
it's not that he isn't Dean Smith, it's that if he doesn't finish top ten then he is no improvement on Dean Smith.
Gerrard took over a team in 15th place, and 4 points off 10th place. Finishing 10th would mean we've been getting the points you'd normally see for a team finishing 8th/9th during his 28 games.
If you want to measure him against Smith's finish last year, you probably need to look at a table in May that only includes the games since he's been manager. So the last 28 games only. Anything else and you're basically criticising Gerrard for Smith's results.
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Wolves have lost three on the bounce and are unfortunately STILL seven points clear of us, so 8th probably beyond us.
Win our game in hand and beat them at their place and we're only a point behind. Not that likely as we've some tough games in the run-in but not impossible. Agree with the rest wrt judging Gerrard.
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Bit harsh. I expect top 10. Anything less and the manager must go.
why do you think that ?
Judging by his previous posts, it's because Gerrard isn't Dean Smith.
it's not that he isn't Dean Smith, it's that if he doesn't finish top ten then he is no improvement on Dean Smith.
Gerrard took over a team in 15th place, and 4 points off 10th place. Finishing 10th would mean we've been getting the points you'd normally see for a team finishing 8th/9th during his 28 games.
If you want to measure him against Smith's finish last year, you probably need to look at a table in May that only includes the games since he's been manager. So the last 28 games only. Anything else and you're basically criticising Gerrard for Smith's results.
So far, under SG, we’ve seen some a similar level of inconsistency as we did under DS. Probably for the first time this season we have pretty much a full squad to choose from with the added benefit of Coutinho in the side so I’d be disappointed if results didn’t pick up and we finish the season strongly.
Not doing so would not be a reason to sack him but would be a little underwhelming and mean that he still had a bit to prove.
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Bit harsh. I expect top 10. Anything less and the manager must go.
why do you think that ?
Judging by his previous posts, it's because Gerrard isn't Dean Smith.
it's not that he isn't Dean Smith, it's that if he doesn't finish top ten then he is no improvement on Dean Smith.
Gerrard took over a team in 15th place, and 4 points off 10th place. Finishing 10th would mean we've been getting the points you'd normally see for a team finishing 8th/9th during his 28 games.
If you want to measure him against Smith's finish last year, you probably need to look at a table in May that only includes the games since he's been manager. So the last 28 games only. Anything else and you're basically criticising Gerrard for Smith's results.
So far, under SG, we’ve seen some a similar level of inconsistency as we did under DS. Probably for the first time this season we have pretty much a full squad to choose from with the added benefit of Coutinho in the side so I’d be disappointed if results didn’t pick up and we finish the season strongly.
Not doing so would not be a reason to sack him but would be a little underwhelming and mean that he still had a bit to prove.
Of course, similar inconsistency, but definitely a better points total than under Smith (this season). You're right in that we now appear to have a full squad of fit players, so the pressure is definitely on and the results should be excuse-free zones.
However, given the way the league is now, and where we are in it today, we could have European qualification form to the end of the season and STILL not get higher than 9th, so I'm not going to base my decision on how well Gerrard has done in his first season on whether we finish 9/10/11th. It'll be more about how we've played in the coming weeks, and whether it looks like we've found a consistent way to win playing the Gerrard way.
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Eighth isn’t far off. We have a game in hand on Wolves and have to play them soon. We have focus on what’s in front of us but finishing as high as 8th is realistic
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Smith’s form in 2021 would have got us relegated. Gerrard’s wouldn’t. And after a good run we were set to play Burnley at home. Covid hit and we played Chelsea instead and also lost the manager for a couple of games. That interruption didn’t help at all to what at the time was very positive momentum.
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I love Dean to bits but there's a reason why it was Norwich who came in for him and a reason why he didn't hold out for something better. I hope he gets them back up next year and does really well but his form over 38 games up to the point he left was relegation level. Five losses on the bounce didn't make it appear things were going to change. But a great bloke and not a bad manager.
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I love Dean to bits but there's a reason why it was Norwich who came in for him and a reason why he didn't hold out for something better. I hope he gets them back up next year and does really well but his form over 38 games up to the point he left was relegation level. Five losses on the bounce didn't make it appear things were going to change. But a great bloke and not a bad manager.
This, with the added, he brought the pride and optimism back.
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The issue we have is Klopp. he decides when we will be looking for a new manager, probably.
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I'd like us to hit 50 points at least. Where that would leave us, who knows. But if we could get some kind of a good run and match the 55 we got last term, I think that would improve on 11th. Clocking 55 points and finishing 11th was quite tough on us I felt. We were well ahead of 12th. Conversely under Houllier we had 48 points and finished 9th.
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The issue we have is Klopp. he decides when we will be looking for a new manager, probably.
I suspect there's something of the Ferguson about Klopp. I can't see where else he'd go. He doesn't strike me as someone who'd be satisfied with international football, at least not for a few years.
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I think Klopp will want to win the Premier League at least one more time with Liverpool before he calls it a day there, but as Paddy says, I could see him being there for another 10 years, easily.
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The issue we have is Klopp. he decides when we will be looking for a new manager, probably.
Gerrard will only be offered the job if he is a success at Villa.
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The issue we have is Klopp. he decides when we will be looking for a new manager, probably.
Gerrard will only be offered the job if he is a success at Villa.
Plus he's probably wise enough to let another manager fail first rather than taking over straight after someone as successful as Klopp.
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I don't think there is any doubt Gerrard will take the job if offered. However, I would say we are several years away from that still.
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100m + spent.
13 points behind Wolves in the league table.
All very Aston Villa in the 21st century isn't it?
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Can’t believe our generous owners will be too impressed.
Not worried about relegation but not at all optimistic that we’re on the brink of a successful future.
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Can’t believe our generous owners will be too impressed.
Not worried about relegation but not at all optimistic that we’re on the brink of a successful future.
same, it looks like the project has stalled.
We wasted the Greasy money and now look rudderless.
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I just keep coming back to the summer, really, and that first signing. If it's some hulking DM who treats every attempt to pass through him like a personal affront, I'll give days like today a pass. If it's Luis Suarez on a free, then we're in for the same old bollocks and another rebuild next January.
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I just keep coming back to the summer, really, and that first signing. If it's some hulking DM who treats every attempt to pass through him like a personal affront, I'll give days like today a pass. If it's Luis Suarez on a free, then we're in for the same old bollocks and another rebuild next January.
Yeah. I guess Coutinho would be the first. Think if we cant get that one done were in for a long summer
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Be nice if we could sign some players most of us had never heard off and who turn out to be stars. We just seem to sign the obvious ones and on big money. E.g. Digne, Ings, Emi2, Traore, Bailey. A big rebuild needed. The tweaking to the existing squad I was hoping for under SG just hasn’t worked
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I really, really thought we'd have used the academy players more by now.
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Currently we’re the most mid table team it’s possible to be. 10th, we routinely lose to everyone above us and generally beat those below us. We’ve become predictable, boring and going absolutely no where.
I can’t see that changing at all between now and the end of this season.
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I get the impression that every team we play has a game plan where we play as if it's every man for himself.
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Nah. Just pissed off.
We could do with a positive result against a team above us to give us some hope again mind.
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Yeah agree not worried as such, but we’re so bloody flat at the moment.
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A few years ago, and for a few seasons I could only dream of being mid table. A lot still needs to be done and hopefully quickly, not worried just not really impressed
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As you climb a mountain, the oxygen gets thinner, the real estate smaller, the margin of error becomes minimal and the climb harder.
The leap from 10th to top 8 next season will be hard and harder than the leap from 13th to Play Offs. From Championship to staying up. From survival to consolidation.
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The concern will be how much trust and faith the owners have in Gerrard. On the performances so far I can't see an empty cheque book being thrown across the desk
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Especially as Gerrard is unlikely to be an authorised signatory.
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It's certainly worrying that Gerarrd can't get a tune out of a decent bunch of players. Lethargic and lazy performances don't sit well with the owners of Premier League clubs.
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Norwich at home. Only time I can see us getting another win.
We look shot.
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Not worried. Pissed off.
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It's certainly worrying that Gerarrd can't get a tune out of a decent bunch of players. Lethargic and lazy performances don't sit well with the owners of Premier League clubs.
Perhaps they aren’t so decent. Got Deano the sack
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I don't think we will be dragged into a relegation battle but the chances of a top half finish are diminishing and it looks like the likes of Newcastle and Leeds are going to catch up with us. We cannot allow that to happen.
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They’re not a particularly dislikable bunch more that they fold like a cheap tent over and over again.
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Not worried just utterly, utterly fed up that we appear no nearer to breaking into the top 10 than we were 8 years ago.
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Another false dawn. Realistically, as someone said above, on current form I can only see us taking points from the Norwich game…. Which is absolutely unacceptable with the squad at our disposal.
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We still need another 4 points I feel to be safe. Burnley could yet survive, especially if they beat Norwich today which will put them closer with a game in hand. Villa still have to play them home and away.
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Not worried just utterly, utterly fed up that we appear no nearer to breaking into the top 10 than we were Ł400 million ago.
Fixed if you want to be REALLY depressed.
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Not worried just utterly, utterly fed up that we appear no nearer to breaking into the top 10 than we were Ł400 million ago.
Fixed if you want to be REALLY depressed.
Thanks for that !
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I was quite looking forward to Everton waving bye-bye, but given our terrible form and two games against Burnley to come, it would be far more beneficial for Norwich to win today. Turns out I can't even enjoy other teams' misery this season.
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15th.
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I don't think we will be dragged into a relegation battle but the chances of a top half finish are diminishing and it looks like the likes of Newcastle and Leeds are going to catch up with us. We cannot allow that to happen.
Newcastle did not win a match until 14 games into the season, and now sit above us.
A damning indictment of this lousy manager
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Our current form is depressingly on a par with Watford.
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No chance we are going down this season. Even if Burnley do the double over us they are still five points behind. It's all feeling very grim at the moment though.
Top half is still eminently achievable with a strong finish. I'm not holding my breath but if we do that everyone goes into summer in a good mood. It's a funny old game, as I think someone has previously observed.
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Our over pampered, over paid squad are a disgrace. Starting to strongly dislike a lot of them.
We more or less downed tools in February and said 'that our lot'. They play in front of a full house every week. They don't deserve what they have.
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Our over pampered, over paid squad are a disgrace. Starting to strongly dislike a lot of them.
We more or less downed tools in February and said 'that our lot'. They play in front of a full house every week. They don't deserve what they have.
I don't think that's true at all. As has been said a few times, we played Spurs off the park and were just undone by our poor finishing compared to Spurs having the world class Son. I don't think there's been a lack of effort, the squad is just midtable and massively inconsistent, like all of the other midtable teams. Brighton lost 6 in a row, scoring once, then drew 0-0 with Norwich. They then recorded back-to-back wins against Arsenal and Spurs. Southampton lost 4 out of 5 including a 6-0 home stuffing, then beat Arsenal.
We could very easily win the next three in a row against Leicester, Norwich and Burnley and be back up to 9th.
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Our over pampered, over paid squad are a disgrace. Starting to strongly dislike a lot of them.
We more or less downed tools in February and said 'that our lot'. They play in front of a full house every week. They don't deserve what they have.
I don't think that's true at all. As has been said a few times, we played Spurs off the park and were just undone by our poor finishing compared to Spurs having the world class Son. I don't think there's been a lack of effort, the squad is just midtable and massively inconsistent, like all of the other midtable teams. Brighton lost 6 in a row, scoring once, then drew 0-0 with Norwich. They then recorded back-to-back wins against Arsenal and Spurs. Southampton lost 4 out of 5 including a 6-0 home stuffing, then beat Arsenal.
We could very easily win the next three in a row against Leicester, Norwich and Burnley and be back up to 9th.
Can we have the old "the Villa are going to hell in a handcart" Risso back please. <winky>
Agree with your take here Risso, life sometimes isn't a straight line to success. I think it was Ads who pointed out a while ago, we don't live in some Villa exclusive bubble, there's 19 other clubs all trying to improve and develop just like we are and as some General probably once said no plan survives first contact with the enemy.
I have my doubts on Gerrard but its far too early to make any hard and fast judgments in my view.
Onwards.....
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Our over pampered, over paid squad are a disgrace. Starting to strongly dislike a lot of them.
We more or less downed tools in February and said 'that our lot'. They play in front of a full house every week. They don't deserve what they have.
I don't think that's true at all. As has been said a few times, we played Spurs off the park and were just undone by our poor finishing compared to Spurs having the world class Son. I don't think there's been a lack of effort, the squad is just midtable and massively inconsistent, like all of the other midtable teams. Brighton lost 6 in a row, scoring once, then drew 0-0 with Norwich. They then recorded back-to-back wins against Arsenal and Spurs. Southampton lost 4 out of 5 including a 6-0 home stuffing, then beat Arsenal.
We could very easily win the next three in a row against Leicester, Norwich and Burnley and be back up to 9th.
Can we have the old "the Villa are going to hell in a handcart" Risso back please. <winky>
Agree with your take here Risso, life sometimes isn't a straight line to success. I think it was Ads who pointed out a while ago, we don't live in some Villa exclusive bubble, there's 19 other clubs all trying to improve and develop just like we are and as some General probably once said no plan survives first contact with the enemy.
I have my doubts on Gerrard but its far too early to make any hard and fast judgments in my view.
Onwards.....
I think if we can win 2 out the next 3 it will be a massive help and change the mood around everything
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Can we have the old "the Villa are going to hell in a handcart" Risso back please. <winky>
Agree with your take here Risso, life sometimes isn't a straight line to success. I think it was Ads who pointed out a while ago, we don't live in some Villa exclusive bubble, there's 19 other clubs all trying to improve and develop just like we are and as some General probably once said no plan survives first contact with the enemy.
I have my doubts on Gerrard but its far too early to make any hard and fast judgments in my view.
Onwards.....
Well Gerrard certainly needs to end the season as strongly as possible. There no excuses for not beating Burnley and Norwich, and at the very least we should be getting a draw against Leicester. Beat Burnley twice, Norwich, and one of Leicester or Palace and draw the other would give us 13 points which would put us on 49 points for the season. Anything at all from the Liverpool or Man City games would be nice, especially last game at Man City if we could deny them and Joe the title. 50 points wouldn't be amazing, but from where we were it wouldn't be a bad return and would at least give us a bit of confidence going into the summer.
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I know it's probably bollocks because everything has changed, from owners to cleaners, but I wonder if there's still a survival instinct hanging round the club and we've turned into the Coventry of old - do enough to stay up then switch off.
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I know it's probably bollocks because everything has changed, from owners to cleaners, but I wonder if there's still a survival instinct hanging round the club and we've turned into the Coventry of old - do enough to stay up then switch off.
I think you are onto something. I suspected this is what happened last year around late January 'job done'.
I accept we played well in the first half against Spurs. But, we let Watford beat us at home, we meekly lost to Newcastle, we didn't lay a glove on Arsenal and we didn't look good against Wolves. I look at the players and I don't see players who are busting a gut for the vclub.
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Unless here is a significant upturn over the final few games then this season will go down as one of huge underachievement from both of the managers and their support teams as well of the majority of the players. I am hoping that Gerrard has enough about him to accept that and not try to make excuses or gloss over things, it might wash with his mates in the media but not with those of us who have been paying attention.
Next season is a chance to reset and a fresh start for everyone but how many times have we said that and this being Villa the nagging doubt is that we’ll be having the same debate this time next year. Let’s hope not.
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I know it's probably bollocks because everything has changed, from owners to cleaners, but I wonder if there's still a survival instinct hanging round the club and we've turned into the Coventry of old - do enough to stay up then switch off.
No I don't buy that. Edens is used to winning in sport (and life generally I guess) and I saw his response to one of Smith's last games when he was going apoplectic. It certainly didn't look like he was content with the status quo, and Smith was gone not long afterwards. They've obviously relied on Purlow's word for the Gerrard appointment. It'll either work out with them backing him in the summer, or it won't and I imagine it'll be a 2 for 1 on the P45s. Whatever happens it won't be for lack of effort.
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I know it's probably bollocks because everything has changed, from owners to cleaners, but I wonder if there's still a survival instinct hanging round the club and we've turned into the Coventry of old - do enough to stay up then switch off.
No I don't buy that. Edens is used to winning in sport (and life generally I guess) and I saw his response to one of Smith's last games when he was going apoplectic. It certainly didn't look like he was content with the status quo, and Smith was gone not long afterwards. They've obviously relied on Purlow's word for the Gerrard appointment. It'll either work out with them backing him in the summer, or it won't and I imagine it'll be a 2 for 1 on the P45s. Whatever happens it won't be for lack of effort.
I agree that our owners, based on their business dealings, don’t appear to be likely to be happy with pure survival. Likewise Gerrard has always seemed to be someone constantly driven towards success
I’ve said on here a few times over the years that in my opinion we have so often lacked an on-field presence
From 1973 until 2014, these were our captains:
Ross
Nicholl
Mortimer
Evans
Gray
Richardson
Townsend
Southgate
Mellberg
Barry
Laursen
Petrov
All of them able to lead by example and inspire or cajole others around them to lift their game
Since then I believe we have had 7 captains, including the likes of Vlaar, Delph, Agbonlahor and Grealish - not exactly inspirational
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The captains point is a fair one Clive, but I also think it helps that the majority of those were surrounded by excellent players and were largely top 6 level teams at least.
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I know it's probably bollocks because everything has changed, from owners to cleaners, but I wonder if there's still a survival instinct hanging round the club and we've turned into the Coventry of old - do enough to stay up then switch off.
No I don't buy that. Edens is used to winning in sport (and life generally I guess) and I saw his response to one of Smith's last games when he was going apoplectic. It certainly didn't look like he was content with the status quo, and Smith was gone not long afterwards. They've obviously relied on Purlow's word for the Gerrard appointment. It'll either work out with them backing him in the summer, or it won't and I imagine it'll be a 2 for 1 on the P45s. Whatever happens it won't be for lack of effort.
I agree that our owners, based on their business dealings, don’t appear to be likely to be happy with pure survival. Likewise Gerrard has always seemed to be someone constantly driven towards success
I’ve said on here a few times over the years that in my opinion we have so often lacked an on-field presence
From 1973 until 2014, these were our captains:
Ross
Nicholl
Mortimer
Evans
Gray
Richardson
Townsend
Southgate
Mellberg
Barry
Laursen
Petrov
All of them able to lead by example and inspire or cajole others around them to lift their game
Since then I believe we have had 7 captains, including the likes of Vlaar, Delph, Agbonlahor and Grealish - not exactly inspirational
Whether we hate why he left or not, Grealish was inspirational. Otherwise good general point.
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I don't think we will be dragged into a relegation battle but the chances of a top half finish are diminishing and it looks like the likes of Newcastle and Leeds are going to catch up with us. We cannot allow that to happen.
Newcastle did not win a match until 14 games into the season, and now sit above us.
A damning indictment of this lousy manager
Very eloquently said. And unless the form changes there is every chance that Leeds overtake us too.
It’s been as bad a season as any of us could have imagined - just awful. And I don’t buy that we can buy ourselves out of trouble. It’s that sort of thinking that gets teams relegated.
The owners must be wondering what the fuck is going on.
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Buying better players is what gets you relegated?
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Buying better players is what gets you relegated?
Not using them properly is what gets you relegated.
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Buying better players is what gets you relegated?
Sure.Ask Fulham.
I think most on here thought Ings, Bailey, Buendia, Coutinho, Chambers, and Digne (let’s call that a cool Ł50m or so) we’re collectively upgrades over the squad that ended last season. Regardless who you buy, they still need coaching.
I genuinely hope your right Ads - and maybe you will be. But I’ll wait till I see evidence where it matters and that’s on the pitch.
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Whether we hate why he left or not, Grealish was inspirational. Otherwise good general point.
Grealish was inspirational in a "give me the ball" way: I don't recall him wearing the metaphorical bloodied headband (a la Terry Butcher), getting in the ref's face (like JTerry) or talking to players to gee them up.
No.
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I know it's probably bollocks because everything has changed, from owners to cleaners, but I wonder if there's still a survival instinct hanging round the club and we've turned into the Coventry of old - do enough to stay up then switch off.
No I don't buy that. Edens is used to winning in sport (and life generally I guess) and I saw his response to one of Smith's last games when he was going apoplectic. It certainly didn't look like he was content with the status quo, and Smith was gone not long afterwards. They've obviously relied on Purlow's word for the Gerrard appointment. It'll either work out with them backing him in the summer, or it won't and I imagine it'll be a 2 for 1 on the P45s. Whatever happens it won't be for lack of effort.
I think your spot on here in every aspect
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Whether we hate why he left or not, Grealish was inspirational. Otherwise good general point.
Grealish was inspirational in a "give me the ball" way: I don't recall him wearing the metaphorical bloodied headband (a la Terry Butcher), getting in the ref's face (like JTerry) or talking to players to gee them up.
No.
Joe seemed to lead in a way that got the best out of the team - I think last season our performance with him we’re touching on Champions League form. Plus we had Mings who I think is a good leader. The problem is not enough of them are the type you want next to you in the trenches so to speak.
We could do with more people like that as we’re too weak willed
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Whether we hate why he left or not, Grealish was inspirational. Otherwise good general point.
Grealish was inspirational in a "give me the ball" way: I don't recall him wearing the metaphorical bloodied headband (a la Terry Butcher), getting in the ref's face (like JTerry) or talking to players to gee them up.
No.
Apart from when a blue nose twat lamped him and he got up and later scored the winner, inspirational obviously depends on how you define it. But anyway feck him he’a gone.
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Buying better players is what gets you relegated?
Sure.Ask Fulham.
I think most on here thought Ings, Bailey, Buendia, Coutinho, Chambers, and Digne (let’s call that a cool Ł50m or so) we’re collectively upgrades over the squad that ended last season. Regardless who you buy, they still need coaching.
I genuinely hope your right Ads - and maybe you will be. But I’ll wait till I see evidence where it matters and that’s on the pitch.
Ask Fulham what?
We've had a structural problem since we were promoted. Our defence gifts soft goals, be that Arsenal away in October 2019 or West Ham away in March. There's a lack of screening cover from a midfield that's too easy to play through.
Grealish helped balance the odds with his brilliance, but he's gone and all the attacking players mentioned are attempts to replace him.
If we improve our structural deficiencies, then the attacking players will have a better platform to earn us 1 or 3 points.
You seemed to reveal in predicting the worst and then complaining about it.
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I know it's probably bollocks because everything has changed, from owners to cleaners, but I wonder if there's still a survival instinct hanging round the club and we've turned into the Coventry of old - do enough to stay up then switch off.
This is an issue but not an issue at any club level it's more to do with player mentality and effects, in a wholesale way, player playing in the Premier League for clubs outside the say top 8 teams. Once these player realise they are ok for another season in the PL they just switch off. Whilst they think job is done it's doing profound damage to their development to a point where they start regressing without realising. A good example is West Brom in their last full season under Pulis. They reached around 40 points in mid March and then switched off not winning another match for the rest of the season. Next season they carried that form from the start and got relegated finishing bottom. The sad truth is that most of players in teams that are usually not competing for European places only have two targets. One being to keep their PL pay grade and other being somehow to do well enough to get transferred to a top 6 team even if it is to sit on the bench week in week out. This problem can be resolved by exceptional Coaches.
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Think a bigger problem is we just don't believe enough in games against top half teams under this manager.
Look how passive we were for first 70 minutes v Arsenal. Since then they've lost to Palace, Brighton and Southampton. All below us in the table before they won v Arsenal.
Were rubbish v Wolves first half. They lost to Leeds and Newcastle either side of beating us.
Weren't awful v West Ham but ultimately lost while Burnley got a draw away to them 3 days after a european game.
Spurs at least until it went 2-0 was a good performance.
Simply haven't shown enough to me we're capable of getting decent results against the top teams which you need to do if we want to be seriously in the shake up for 7th this time next year so to me it's a big gamble to give him another 100m+ to spend in the summer.
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We are in a relegation battle , there's no doubt about it. The way we are playing and unable to put the ball into the net I can't see where the next points are coming from. This is absolutely tragic.
Mr Purslow and the owners will have expected AT LEAST top half. There's going to be some big decisions made in the summer
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Bit early to be drinking turps isn't it Wilma?
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We are in a relegation battle , there's no doubt about it. The way we are playing and unable to put the ball into the net I can't see where the next points are coming from. This is absolutely tragic.
Mr Purslow and the owners will have expected AT LEAST top half. There's going to be some big decisions made in the summer
You've a big decision in the summer regarding your ST.
There's thousands waiting for it of you decide not to renew because of the crisis you think we're going through.
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We are in a relegation battle , there's no doubt about it. The way we are playing and unable to put the ball into the net I can't see where the next points are coming from. This is absolutely tragic.
Mr Purslow and the owners will have expected AT LEAST top half. There's going to be some big decisions made in the summer
You've a big decision in the summer regarding your ST.
There's thousands waiting for it of you decide not to renew because of the crisis you think we're going through.
Vegas is not renewing his season tickets either so the waiting list could be down to 21,997.
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We are in a relegation battle , there's no doubt about it. The way we are playing and unable to put the ball into the net I can't see where the next points are coming from. This is absolutely tragic.
Mr Purslow and the owners will have expected AT LEAST top half. There's going to be some big decisions made in the summer
You've a big decision in the summer regarding your ST.
There's thousands waiting for it of you decide not to renew because of the crisis you think we're going through.
He doesn't have a season ticket. He told us as much. Then started talking as if he had one, forgetting his fib contradicted him, the silly troll.
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We are in a relegation battle , there's no doubt about it. The way we are playing and unable to put the ball into the net I can't see where the next points are coming from. This is absolutely tragic.
Mr Purslow and the owners will have expected AT LEAST top half. There's going to be some big decisions made in the summer
You've a big decision in the summer regarding your ST.
There's thousands waiting for it of you decide not to renew because of the crisis you think we're going through.
He doesn't have a season ticket. He told us as much. Then started talking as if he had one, forgetting his fib contradicted him, the silly troll.
He may have one. Just not one with us.
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I'm currently a season card holder, I wasn't going to be but circumstances changed and I renewed it.
If zone 5/6 are removed I will not be going out of principal. Club s*****g on those who have been turning up in the championship and those financially worse off to fill up with those who clicked interested on a list with no upfront payment
Hopefully now the owners/board can see how poor we are and our ridiculous league position they will have a big rethink .
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We are in a relegation battle , there's no doubt about it. The way we are playing and unable to put the ball into the net I can't see where the next points are coming from. This is absolutely tragic.
Seriously?
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We are in a relegation battle , there's no doubt about it. The way we are playing and unable to put the ball into the net I can't see where the next points are coming from. This is absolutely tragic.
Mr Purslow and the owners will have expected AT LEAST top half. There's going to be some big decisions made in the summer
You've a big decision in the summer regarding your ST.
There's thousands waiting for it of you decide not to renew because of the crisis you think we're going through.
He doesn't have a season ticket. He told us as much. Then started talking as if he had one, forgetting his fib contradicted him, the silly troll.
He may have one. Just not one with us.
I am sure he does. Check the site rules please.
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No
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We are in a relegation battle , there's no doubt about it. The way we are playing and unable to put the ball into the net I can't see where the next points are coming from. This is absolutely tragic.
Mr Purslow and the owners will have expected AT LEAST top half. There's going to be some big decisions made in the summer
You've a big decision in the summer regarding your ST.
There's thousands waiting for it of you decide not to renew because of the crisis you think we're going through.
He doesn't have a season ticket. He told us as much. Then started talking as if he had one, forgetting his fib contradicted him, the silly troll.
He may have one. Just not one with us.
I am sure he does. Check the site rules please.
Noted and apologies if I've stepped over the line.
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No worries.
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Being a consummate gentleman, I've never read the rules. Is there one about accusing posters of being non-Villa fans? Because I suspect SE is a Shrewsbury fan on the wind-up.
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Being a consummate gentleman, I've never read the rules. Is there one about accusing posters of being non-Villa fans? Because I suspect SE is a Shrewsbury fan on the wind-up.
I used to be a ball boy at Gay Meadow, and an altar boy at St Patrick's, Wellington.
I've been hoodwinking you all for 15 years.
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Being a consummate gentleman, I've never read the rules. Is there one about accusing posters of being non-Villa fans? Because I suspect SE is a Shrewsbury fan on the wind-up.
I used to be a ball boy at Gay Meadow, and an altar boy at St Patrick's, Wellington.
I've been hoodwinking you all for 15 years.
Get him!
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They’re just jealous.
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Being a consummate gentleman, I've never read the rules. Is there one about accusing posters of being non-Villa fans? Because I suspect SE is a Shrewsbury fan on the wind-up.
I used to be a ball boy at Gay Meadow, and an altar boy at St Patrick's, Wellington.
I've been hoodwinking you all for 15 years.
(https://i.ibb.co/xDhF9yy/Shutterstock-1345544a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xDhF9yy)
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Being a consummate gentleman, I've never read the rules. Is there one about accusing posters of being non-Villa fans? Because I suspect SE is a Shrewsbury fan on the wind-up.
I used to be a ball boy at Gay Meadow, and an altar boy at St Patrick's, Wellington.
I've been hoodwinking you all for 15 years.
Without the contextual knowledge of English football this line could read a lot differently.
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Being a consummate gentleman, I've never read the rules. Is there one about accusing posters of being non-Villa fans? Because I suspect SE is a Shrewsbury fan on the wind-up.
I used to be a ball boy at Gay Meadow, and an altar boy at St Patrick's, Wellington.
I've been hoodwinking you all for 15 years.
Without the contextual knowledge of English football this line could read a lot differently.
yeh, but which gay meadow? ;)
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As for hoodwinking, that sounds like a euphemism too..
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It’s been as bad a season as any of us could have imagined - just awful. And I don’t buy that we can buy ourselves out of trouble. It’s that sort of thinking that gets teams relegated.
The owners must be wondering what the fuck is going on.
Only if they read your take on things.
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It’s been as bad a season as any of us could have imagined - just awful. And I don’t buy that we can buy ourselves out of trouble. It’s that sort of thinking that gets teams relegated.
The owners must be wondering what the fuck is going on.
Only if they read your take on things.
Yep, whilst I haven't been impressed with our recent form, after the last decade, it isn't too difficult to remember - never mind imagine - a worse season.
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I'm not worried about Villa getting relegated. But it did occur to me that, with Norwich and Burnley twice to come, if we do get sucked in it'll be our own fault.
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We already have enough points.
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I'm always worried about us getting relegated. Just not this season any more. We'll finish 16th. Disappointing.
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Think we'll finish 13th-10th.
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Can't believe we're gonna finish below Newcastle, but it's looking that way.
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We need to pull our fingers out.
Leicester scored early tonight and then barely did anything for rest of the game so they're simply not bothered about the premier league this season.
Who knows on the result but us not turning up until 70th minute like seemingly all our games v top 10 teams simply won't be good enough, we need to be flying out of the blocks for this one.
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We're in the crap BIG TIME
15th is absolutely unacceptable and helping out Newcastle United as I said at the time would come back to haunt us as they fly up the table whilst we slump
Disgrace and poor management
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We're in the crap BIG TIME
15th is absolutely unacceptable and helping out Newcastle United as I said at the time would come back to haunt us as they fly up the table whilst we slump
Disgrace and poor management
No we're not.
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We're in the crap BIG TIME
15th is absolutely unacceptable and helping out Newcastle United as I said at the time would come back to haunt us as they fly up the table whilst we slump
Disgrace and poor management
Seriously, are you ok?
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We're in the crap BIG TIME
15th is absolutely unacceptable and helping out Newcastle United as I said at the time would come back to haunt us as they fly up the table whilst we slump
Disgrace and poor management
I think it is mathmatically possible that we stay up still?
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Not yet.
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11 pts clear with 7 games to go.
It would be a monumental effort by Burnley to go unbeaten for the rest of the season including at least 3 wins.
Plus, I can’t see us not picking up any points.
That said, we’ve certainly slipped alarmingly close
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The minimum we should be looking at is another 3 wins this season - Norwich and Burnley twice. I don’t expect much from Man City or Liverpool so that leaves Leicester and Palace as the games where we have a chance to maybe add a bit of respectability.
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I'm not worried I think we will get seven points in our remaining games.
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I'm not worried I think we will get seven points in our remaining games.
Same. I'm not worried about relegation. I am worried about our form though.
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I'm not worried I think we will get seven points in our remaining games.
Same. I'm not worried about relegation. I am worried about our form though.
Exactly where I am, too.
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7 points is what I predict too (maybe 9 now that Burnley have lost Dyche, i.e beat them at home, lose away) but it's still a mediocre return and likely to see us well-adrift of the top-half.
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We’re not getting relegated. I do worry though about what this will do to our summer plans.
I struggle to see us getting these targets we hear about - why would anyone chose over Newcastle first example.
And why would you leave Brighton or Leeds to come here.
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We've got Gerrard! And maybe Coutinho. And it's easy to commute to Villa from London or Manchester so they can be close to mates. Newcastle is just out there on its own.
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True - I guess it will come down to how well we sell the "project", and how much this disapointing season has taken the shine off it
No idea how players decide where to go, and what influences them
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Harder to sell a project that seems to have stalled if not gone a step back.
I thought we would have a sort of 97-98 end of season with Gerrard rallying the squad to climb as high up the table as they could. It is very disappointing to see us 15th.
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Just another quick reminder that the season hasn’t finished yet.
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Just another quick reminder that the season hasn’t finished yet.
Yes, and could someone pass this onto our players?
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True - I guess it will come down to how well we sell the "project", and how much this disapointing season has taken the shine off it
No idea how players decide where to go, and what influences them
Trophies, Money, Game time, location, perception of the team and family situation . Not necessarily in that order.
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I'm not worried I think we will get seven points in our remaining games.
Yes you would think 7 points from Norwich, Palace and the 2 Burnley games is achievable. Don’t think we’ll get anything else though.
43 points total would be pretty shit really but it’s comfortable survival I suppose.
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We've beaten both Palace and Leicester comfortably this season, so no reason we shouldn't be able to do it again.
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We've beaten both Palace and Leicester comfortably this season, so no reason we shouldn't be able to do it again.
Oh absolutely. We should beat Norwich, Burnley, Palace and have a chance against Leicester.
I'd like to give Liverpool and Man City a game but they will really be on it you'd think.
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If we could get 4 wins - out the remaining 7 games, which isnt impossible, I think that would be an ok end of the season and hopefully get us up to 12ish which wouldnt be bad all things considered and would get some of the feel good back
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We just need to stop conceding soft early goals. We need to be right on it from minute one of games. This season has been pretty painful but we need to finish in a positive fashion.
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Just another quick reminder that the season hasn’t finished yet.
I am firmly Gerrard in and he clearly has done better than Smith. However, we can all acknowledge that it has been disappointing since January. If anything, we were doing better before the big signings made in January.
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We just need to stop conceding soft early goals. We need to be right on it from minute one of games. This season has been pretty painful but we need to finish in a positive fashion.
Absolutely this. And as good as we were against Spurs first half we failed to score which suggests we need a top class striker too.
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We've beaten both Palace and Leicester comfortably this season, so no reason we shouldn't be able to do it again.
Oh absolutely. We should beat Norwich, Burnley, Palace and have a chance against Leicester.
I'd like to give Liverpool and Man City a game but they will really be on it you'd think.
However, we beat Palace and Leicester in the early weeks of Gerrard, and our form was better then. Also we beat the barcodes reasonably comfortably under Smith and then put in a terrible show up there.
Our form, along with others in the middle reaches, has fluctuated wildly this season and teams go on winless or losing runs and then bounce back with a couple of wins.
So, actually, yes it must be our turn to win a game or two.
I'm discounting Liverpool and Man City from any possible additional points.
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we need a bit of positive momentum. We have two really tough games left in Liverpool and Man City but we want to into that last game on a good run of results. Even a draw at Leicester would be good, although they're not exactly great, but it would at least stop the bleeding.
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If Burnley win tonight…. They couldn’t could they?
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Just another quick reminder that the season hasn’t finished yet.
I am firmly Gerrard in and he clearly has done better than Smith. However, we can all acknowledge that it has been disappointing since January. If anything, we were doing better before the big signings made in January.
How has he clearly done better than Smith?
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If Burnley win tonight…. They couldn’t could they?
I know - the media has been so focused on Gerrard and Courtinho winning the league for Liverpool, we've missed the Joe relegating Villa story.
A win against leicester would be "most timely"
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If Burnley stay up it will be at Everton’s or at the outside Leeds’, expense. Not ours.
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Burnley appear to be winning.
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If Burnley stay up it will be at Everton’s or at the outside Leeds’, expense. Not ours.
It’s demoralising that we are even mentioned in this context.
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If Burnley win tonight…. They couldn’t could they?
I know - the media has been so focused on Gerrard and Courtinho winning the league for Liverpool, we've missed the Joe relegating Villa story.
A win against leicester would be "most timely"
This was tongue in cheak
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Just another quick reminder that the season hasn’t finished yet.
I am firmly Gerrard in and he clearly has done better than Smith. However, we can all acknowledge that it has been disappointing since January. If anything, we were doing better before the big signings made in January.
How has he clearly done better than Smith?
No clue, he’s nowhere near “clearly better” than Dean Smith. At least Deano got us a few victories against some top half teams. Time will tell, but I can’t imagine anyone is convinced.
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Just another quick reminder that the season hasn’t finished yet.
I am firmly Gerrard in and he clearly has done better than Smith. However, we can all acknowledge that it has been disappointing since January. If anything, we were doing better before the big signings made in January.
How has he clearly done better than Smith?
Yes that’s laughable comment. The only thing I can think of is that he has not managed to get sacked so far so he’s done better than Smith.
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Just another quick reminder that the season hasn’t finished yet.
And that’s a terrifying situation with Gerrard in charge of next seven games.
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Burnley will be two points behind us when they beat us twice.
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Just another quick reminder that the season hasn’t finished yet.
I am firmly Gerrard in and he clearly has done better than Smith. However, we can all acknowledge that it has been disappointing since January. If anything, we were doing better before the big signings made in January.
How has he clearly done better than Smith?
Yes that’s laughable comment. The only thing I can think of is that he has not managed to get sacked so far so he’s done better than Smith.
Such snide comments. We had 10 points after 11 games with Smith. We took 26 points from 20 under Gerrard. Not great but marginally better and let's just ignore the second half of last season shall we?
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Yes marginally better after adding two world class players to his squad which is NOT clearly better.
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Just another quick reminder that the season hasn’t finished yet.
I am firmly Gerrard in and he clearly has done better than Smith. However, we can all acknowledge that it has been disappointing since January. If anything, we were doing better before the big signings made in January.
How has he clearly done better than Smith?
Yes that’s laughable comment. The only thing I can think of is that he has not managed to get sacked so far so he’s done better than Smith.
Such snide comments. We had 10 points after 11 games with Smith. We took 26 points from 20 under Gerrard. Not great but marginally better and let's just ignore the second half of last season shall we?
So not exactly clearly then
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Burnley will be two points behind us when they beat us twice.
My tickets came today, I'll send them back. Thanks for the heads up.
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You are most welcome. Norwich will be a draw as well in case you’re interested.
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I have to admit I'm starting to get a little concerned....that I might be trampled in all the backtracking that will be going on next season when we're doing well.
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I dont think there's much point in comparing with last season as the huge floppy haired elephant in the room gets factored in. But we took 1.4 points per game from the final 10 after a dismal 2 points in March, starting with that defeat to Sheffield United, who had 10 men and only took 3 more points for the rest of the season.
It makes more sense to look at the season given the content of the squad is comparable and the issues ro hand are comparable. Gerrard has 1.3 compared to Smith's 1.1. Its narrowed as we've had a very poor end to March and start to April points wise with these 4 defeats.
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You are most welcome. Norwich will be a draw as well in case you’re interested.
You predicting Burnley beating us twice and equaling 40% of their wins this season and then Norwich finding a draw is definitely something. It's not interesting, but it is something.
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You are most welcome. Norwich will be a draw as well in case you’re interested.
Usure?
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We need 4 points I feel to be clear of any relegation threat. I think Everton look the most vulnerable now for that 3rd spot.....
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I have to admit I'm starting to get a little concerned....that I might be trampled in all the backtracking that will be going on next season when we're doing well.
And I think that we will do well next season.
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Leeds have enough points now, which is lucky for them given their run in. Everton will just about do it. Burnley are fucking terrible, taking 0.8 points a game and have been dire for years. Hopefully they flush and don't come back.
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I dont think there's much point in comparing with last season as the huge floppy haired elephant in the room gets factored in. But we took 1.4 points per game from the final 10 after a dismal 2 points in March, starting with that defeat to Sheffield United, who had 10 men and only took 3 more points for the rest of the season.
It makes more sense to look at the season given the content of the squad is comparable and the issues ro hand are comparable. Gerrard has 1.3 compared to Smith's 1.1. Its narrowed as we've had a very poor end to March and start to April points wise with these 4 defeats.
I dont see any point in comparing them, as we cant change it now. But I dont think it is right to say that they had similar issues - Gerrard has had Dinge and Phil - and Dean had a load of injuries where I think SG has had less disruption.
Similarly you cant discount Dean with Joe, as we have have about 7 new players since he left.
Its pointless comparing - Dean did a very good job for us overall, but we have SG now and hopefully he'll move us on.
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Burnley have Wolves and Watford next. Two wins and Everton and Leeds are dragged back in. Erm, we need a couple of games where we don’t concede daft early goals. Norwich has to be three points, be happy with a point against Leicester.
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Hopefully Marvelous will start against Leicester and bolster our midfield from here on in. He'd been playing so well before his injury. We all need our nerves settling now, particularly after tonight.
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Smith and Gerrard have the same issue in midfield; its not very good, particularly off the ball and in covering our concentration deficient centre halves.
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Hopefully Marvelous will start against Leicester and bolster our midfield from here on in. He'd been playing so well before his injury. We all need our nerves settling now, particularly after tonight.
Think Marv will help. I think our team lacks balance - too many similar players - midfield has basically 3 8's trying to covering the rest
Mings and Konsa are both good defensively, but not great on the ball.. etc
Think Marv adds a something different - hes not perfect but think hes energy and more defensive midset will balance the team better
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I have to admit I'm starting to get a little concerned....that I might be trampled in all the backtracking that will be going on next season when we're doing well.
I will just love it yes LOVE IT if we do…
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Smith and Gerrard have the same issue in midfield; its not very good, particularly off the ball and in covering our concentration deficient centre halves.
Nakamba's return will help protect the the CB's allowing McGinn and Luiz more freedom in a better balanced midfield. The legacy of not signing a top DM in January after Nakamba got injured.
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Think the lack of draws is testament to that. 11 wins and 17 defeats, with 3 draws. A few teams like Leicester have pretty barmy result sets like that.
While I appreciate some are talking about relegation battles, and whether they're being genuine I don't know, but we've lost 9 games by a single goal. How many gifts? How many moments of individual stupidity? How many genuine goals where you've shrugged and gone, fair play, worldie that? It's heavily and almost exclusively ladden with the former.
Sides aren't working hard to score against us as we are beyond generous. We have been all season, slightly less generous under Gerrard as there's more structure, but even turning 2 into wins and 2 into draws nestles us within a shout of top 8. Extrapolate that over Smith's 10 and who knows.
I wasn't a fan of Marv, but he has impressed me though and proved me wrong. I don't think he's long term the answer for top half and beyond, but I am pretty convinced Ramsey and McGinn will.operate better with him than Luiz. Same goes for Konsa/Chambers and Mings.
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I'm worried because I hav'nt seen any indication of Gerrard coming to terms with how to structure the side. I see Young playing left back and shudder I see Luiz out of form yet his names always on the team sheet. Newcastle has gone above us with what is for me a far inferior squad. I worry that yet again we will let a new manager, unproven at the top level, spend a fortune on players only to be sacked a few months later. I feel depressed.
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I'm worried based on the fact that I don't see where our next point is coming from and I'm not sure the players are mentally as invested as they should be.
Right now, I'm basically putting everything on beating Norwich and not losing to Burnley twice. If we don't do either of those things then we could be in trouble still.
Thank McGrath we've already got to 36 points, so of course we should be safe, but the above is an absolute recipe for disaster.
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The inescapable truth is that Gerrard has placed us in our current predicament at this juncture. I think we are safe but, bloody hell, being 15th and fretting about other teams results is a terrible indictment of Gerrard’s performance so far.
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Can't understand why Chambers never got a run out as a defensive mid - a position he has experienced before.
Persisting with Luiz has been a mistake. He should have been pushed further forward at the expense of McGinn or Ramsay (McGinn has been particularly sloppy and his loss of possession has been directly responsible for key goals against).
Whether Marvelous make the difference rather depends on which version we are going to see.
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Whether Marvelous make the difference rather depends on which version we are going to see.
After the injury he's had, how long will it get up to speed? Relying on him as the man to halt the losing streak seems a little hopeful; much as I'd love it to happen, starting tomorrow.
Perhaps interchanging him and Chambers at DMF would work - to ease him back into the game - but Mr Gerrard has not used Chambers in that role as yet.
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In all seriousness I do think we’ve just about done enough to stay up at this stage. But I still have this massive sense of anti climax and disappointment at his performance especially since Christmas. It’s essentially his tactics and inability to spot danger and change during a game that are my biggest concerns. That seems to be ingrained and any amount of money thrown at the squad isn’t going to fix that unless he learns quickly. Which in turn annoys me that we’ve appointed a rookie manager to do just that.
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The inescapable truth is that Gerrard has placed us in our current predicament at this juncture. I think we are safe but, bloody hell, being 15th and fretting about other teams results is a terrible indictment of Gerrard’s performance so far.
Gerrard alone?
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This has been a hugely disappointing season - we were aiming for a top half finish - and apparently budgeted for that. To an outsider it will look like we are further away than last season. Which is a shame after the progress we made in the previous 3
I think everyone involved with the club has to take there share of responsibility for that. Both managers have failed to get us the results that our squad deserves.
Our transfer business last summer looks Poorly thought out in hindsight. Failure to get more options in midfield was also a big mistake
The players, Cash and Ramsey aside have all been worse this season than last season
Our pre season was a joke.
Everyone involved needs to learn lessons from this if we are to progress significantly.
It’s a big ask, and for some involved it will be too big a ask - but it’s essential we get these things right or the next year or two otherwise we risk becoming Everton.
We’re not going down, Gerrard is going to get backed in the summer and a lot of the ingredients are there - so let’s hope we can lift the curse of averageness that has hung over the club for too long
UTV
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The inescapable truth is that Gerrard has placed us in our current predicament at this juncture. I think we are safe but, bloody hell, being 15th and fretting about other teams results is a terrible indictment of Gerrard’s performance so far.
Gerrard alone?
The club had decided they needed a change, the man they appointed has us still worrying about an outside chance of relegation after losing 4 in a row with 7 games remaining. So yes, the way football works it’s largely on him.
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This has been a hugely disappointing season - we were aiming for a top half finish - and apparently budgeted for that. To an outsider it will look like we are further away than last season. Which is a shame after the progress we made in the previous 3
I think everyone involved with the club has to take there share of responsibility for that. Both managers have failed to get us the results that our squad deserves.
Our transfer business last summer looks Poorly thought out in hindsight. Failure to get more options in midfield was also a big mistake
The players, Cash and Ramsey aside have all been worse this season than last season
Our pre season was a joke.
Everyone involved needs to learn lessons from this if we are to progress significantly.
It’s a big ask, and for some involved it will be too big a ask - but it’s essential we get these things right or the next year or two otherwise we risk becoming Everton.
We’re not going down, Gerrard is going to get backed in the summer and a lot of the ingredients are there - so let’s hope we had lift the curse of averageness that has hung over the club for too long
UTV
We're 4 points off the top half with two games in hand. If we beat 9th placed Leicester tomorrow, we'd be two points behind them. Their next match is away to Spurs, we're at home to Norwich. People keep talking as if the season has just finished, when the truth is that we just haven't had a match for two weeks and other teams have. It has been a disappointing season so far, but let's just see how we finish it. 9th or 10th is still possible.
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The inescapable truth is that Gerrard has placed us in our current predicament at this juncture. I think we are safe but, bloody hell, being 15th and fretting about other teams results is a terrible indictment of Gerrard’s performance so far.
Gerrard alone?
The club had decided they needed a change, the man they appointed has us still worrying about an outside chance of relegation after losing 4 in a row with 7 games remaining. So yes, the way football works it’s largely on him.
Gerrard alone and largely on him are different. Shared blame (if we have to blame) Gerrard has faults and is making errors. So are the players.
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I'm not getting my knickers in a twist too much with the results since Gerrard came in. It can be difficult taking over mid season and many of the players he's having to use started the season badly and have continued that. Brian Little, after coming in mid season and improving us a bit initially almost got relegated by the end and was a bit hit and miss with those initial transfers. He then bought well in the summer, got the system working how he wanted and we had 2 excellent seasons.
My issue is purely personal in that my gut feeling is that he won't turn it around in that way or even close to that. Even though i was glad to back him after we took him on i thought his lack of experience would be an issue and i still feel the same.
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Another scenario tomorrow: We lose at Leicester, which is quite likely and Burnley beat Wolves, then the gap is only 5 points with Villa to play Burnley twice. It doesn't take much for a points cushion to evaporate rapidly.
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The inescapable truth is that Gerrard has placed us in our current predicament at this juncture. I think we are safe but, bloody hell, being 15th and fretting about other teams results is a terrible indictment of Gerrard’s performance so far.
Gerrard alone?
The club had decided they needed a change, the man they appointed has us still worrying about an outside chance of relegation after losing 4 in a row with 7 games remaining. So yes, the way football works it’s largely on him.
Gerrard alone and largely on him are different. Shared blame (if we have to blame) Gerrard has faults and is making errors. So are the players.
You could have made exactly the same argument in support of Dean Smith. We all know how football works, ultimate responsibility always lies with the manager. They’re the ones who get sacked, not the players. Not that I’m calling for that but he (and the players, just to be clear) needs to start translating words into action to lift the growing sense of unease.
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This has been a hugely disappointing season - we were aiming for a top half finish - and apparently budgeted for that. To an outsider it will look like we are further away than last season. Which is a shame after the progress we made in the previous 3
I think everyone involved with the club has to take there share of responsibility for that. Both managers have failed to get us the results that our squad deserves.
Our transfer business last summer looks Poorly thought out in hindsight. Failure to get more options in midfield was also a big mistake
The players, Cash and Ramsey aside have all been worse this season than last season
Our pre season was a joke.
Everyone involved needs to learn lessons from this if we are to progress significantly.
It’s a big ask, and for some involved it will be too big a ask - but it’s essential we get these things right or the next year or two otherwise we risk becoming Everton.
We’re not going down, Gerrard is going to get backed in the summer and a lot of the ingredients are there - so let’s hope we had lift the curse of averageness that has hung over the club for too long
UTV
We're 4 points off the top half with two games in hand. If we beat 9th placed Leicester tomorrow, we'd be two points behind them. Their next match is away to Spurs, we're at home to Norwich. People keep talking as if the season has just finished, when the truth is that we just haven't had a match for two weeks and other teams have. It has been a disappointing season so far, but let's just see how we finish it. 9th or 10th is still possible.
Yes thats true - and the best way to get the project moving again will be to start winning games
But - short of winning every game til the end of the season - I think this season will be deemed as underwhelming at best
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Fed up of looking over our shoulders. However, one win and I reckon we are safe thanks to Everton's remaining fixtures.
Amongst many other issues, Martinez and Mings needs a rocket up their arse. They are often the starting point of our attacks and set the tempo. But, far to often they 'dilly dally' on the ball for too long, let the opposition get back into shape and make us pedestrian.
I reckon if they speed it up and show more urgency the rest will follow.
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This has been a hugely disappointing season - we were aiming for a top half finish - and apparently budgeted for that. To an outsider it will look like we are further away than last season. Which is a shame after the progress we made in the previous 3
I think everyone involved with the club has to take there share of responsibility for that. Both managers have failed to get us the results that our squad deserves.
Our transfer business last summer looks Poorly thought out in hindsight. Failure to get more options in midfield was also a big mistake
The players, Cash and Ramsey aside have all been worse this season than last season
Our pre season was a joke.
Everyone involved needs to learn lessons from this if we are to progress significantly.
It’s a big ask, and for some involved it will be too big a ask - but it’s essential we get these things right or the next year or two otherwise we risk becoming Everton.
We’re not going down, Gerrard is going to get backed in the summer and a lot of the ingredients are there - so let’s hope we had lift the curse of averageness that has hung over the club for too long
UTV
We're 4 points off the top half with two games in hand. If we beat 9th placed Leicester tomorrow, we'd be two points behind them. Their next match is away to Spurs, we're at home to Norwich. People keep talking as if the season has just finished, when the truth is that we just haven't had a match for two weeks and other teams have. It has been a disappointing season so far, but let's just see how we finish it. 9th or 10th is still possible.
And we're in the worst form in the league over the past 5 games played regardless of when they were, that's the concern.
Though getting back to arguing in favour, we beat Norwich, Leicester and Palace under Gerrard so should do the same again. Then there's Burnley, and who knows what could happen in those games.
We're never going down, and just need to win a few to get some confidence back, but right now, talk of potential top half is unlikely and by your maths earlier in the season would require us to probably be on league-winning form or something.
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No it wouldn't.
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Another scenario tomorrow: We lose at Leicester, which is quite likely and Burnley beat Wolves, then the gap is only 5 points with Villa to play Burnley twice. It doesn't take much for a points cushion to evaporate rapidly.
Burnley doubling their wins tally over 31 games in 4 is now considered not much. What about if we beat Leicester and then smash both Norwich and get a good win at Burnley to slot us into 10th? A scenario far more likely than a rank Burnley turning on the gas because Ben fucking Mee is now coaching them.
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We were seven points from safety with four to play a couple of years back and stayed up. Seemingly doomed teams can survive.
Personally I think we'll win at least one of the next three and that will be that.
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Another scenario tomorrow: We lose at Leicester, which is quite likely and Burnley beat Wolves, then the gap is only 5 points with Villa to play Burnley twice. It doesn't take much for a points cushion to evaporate rapidly.
Burnley doubling their wins tally over 31 games in 4 is now considered not much. What about if we beat Leicester and then smash both Norwich and get a good win at Burnley to slot us into 10th? A scenario far more likely than a rank Burnley turning on the gas because Ben fucking Mee is now coaching them.
I haven't looked at the stats but my gut feeling is that teams in with a fighting chance (i.e. not Norwich) can have an upturn in form when they have a chance of survival, or when all hope has gone and they are already down. Over the last 5 games played Burnley have 7 points from 15 and might be hoping for new manager bounce.
I can't decide whether I want them down because of Ben Mee, or Everton, just because, well it's Everton. We won't go down though.
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No it wouldn't.
No, I know. I was being facetious. Do you think we'll get top half?
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I see the next 3 as a great opportunity. I'm looking forward to tomorrow, there seems something proper about it all. I understand the concerns, I think they're exaggerated and far too much time is spent dwelling on fear than on opportunity. The season has been annoyingly frustrating nonetheless.
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I definitely want Everton to go. But us to beat Burnley twice still.
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We were seven points from safety with four to play a couple of years back and stayed up. Seemingly doomed teams can survive.
Personally I think we'll win at least one of the next three and that will be that.
It was four points from safety with 4 games left. And we didn't reel in anybody sat 8 points above the drop zone who also had a game in hand. The 4 teams in the last 4 places with 6 games left were the teams who finished in the bottom 4 at the end of the season, we just did enough to turn around a one point deficit to Watford who helpfully sacked their manager, to finish a point above them.
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
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Everton are worried that's for sure. They will be slaughtered by Liverpool this weekend and Chelsea after that.
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I see the next 3 as a great opportunity. I'm looking forward to tomorrow, there seems something proper about it all. I understand the concerns, I think they're exaggerated and far too much time is spent dwelling on fear than on opportunity. The season has been annoyingly frustrating nonetheless.
Yeah, I used to be a bit of an optimist too. Then reality (or something) struck and it appears I've swapped places with Risso! :-)
This is the first season in a few where we've potentially gone backwards, and I don't like it. We have the ability to beat anyone, that's the disappointing thing.
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Another scenario tomorrow: We lose at Leicester, which is quite likely and Burnley beat Wolves, then the gap is only 5 points with Villa to play Burnley twice. It doesn't take much for a points cushion to evaporate rapidly.
lol...There is a reason why Burnley are and have been in bottom 3 all season. They are not turning into barca 09/10 overnight.
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The inescapable truth is that Gerrard has placed us in our current predicament at this juncture. I think we are safe but, bloody hell, being 15th and fretting about other teams results is a terrible indictment of Gerrard’s performance so far.
Gerrard alone?
YES. He took on the job to improve us and he signed two quality players to make us a better team but he is failing miserably ATM.
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No it wouldn't.
No, I know. I was being facetious. Do you think we'll get top half?
I think it largely depends on tomorrow, which is starting to feel like a mini cup final. If we beat Leicester I think we'll get a massive confidence boost and then use that to batter Norwich. At that point we would be top half (on points per game anyway) so then it would just be about matching or bettering the results of the other midtable teams like Brighton etc.
On the other hand, lose and all hell starts to break loose. It would be very hard to finish top half then, and I'm fairly certain all the "Smith was sacked for a similar run" comments would start. Gerrard needs at least a draw really, and a good performance.
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I see the next 3 as a great opportunity. I'm looking forward to tomorrow, there seems something proper about it all. I understand the concerns, I think they're exaggerated and far too much time is spent dwelling on fear than on opportunity. The season has been annoyingly frustrating nonetheless.
Yeah, I used to be a bit of an optimist too. Then reality (or something) struck and it appears I've swapped places with Risso! :-)
This is the first season in a few where we've potentially gone backwards, and I don't like it. We have the ability to beat anyone, that's the disappointing thing.
I don't even think Gerrard's doing a great job at the moment, I just think that there are reasons for it, but all of the doommongering on here is ridiculous, and probably still a hangover from Smith being sacked.
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I see the next 3 as a great opportunity. I'm looking forward to tomorrow, there seems something proper about it all. I understand the concerns, I think they're exaggerated and far too much time is spent dwelling on fear than on opportunity. The season has been annoyingly frustrating nonetheless.
Yeah, I used to be a bit of an optimist too. Then reality (or something) struck and it appears I've swapped places with Risso! :-)
This is the first season in a few where we've potentially gone backwards, and I don't like it. We have the ability to beat anyone, that's the disappointing thing.
I don't even think Gerrard's doing a great job at the moment, I just think that there are reasons for it, but all of the doommongering on here is ridiculous, and probably still a hangover from Smith being sacked.
It's more to do with the constant losses and the banishment of a chunk of the squad in order to play a system that isn't working.
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We were seven points from safety with four to play a couple of years back and stayed up. Seemingly doomed teams can survive.
Personally I think we'll win at least one of the next three and that will be that.
It was four points from safety with 4 games left. And we didn't reel in anybody sat 8 points above the drop zone who also had a game in hand. The 4 teams in the last 4 places with 6 games left were the teams who finished in the bottom 4 at the end of the season, we just did enough to turn around a one point deficit to Watford who helpfully sacked their manager, to finish a point above them.
For the avoidance of doubt, I don't believe for a second that Burnley will catch us and, even if they do, I imagine they will have caught other teams as well.
However, re our great escape, both Watford and West Ham won the day before we played Palace so at that point we were seven points adrift with four (for us) to play. I accept that they only had three to play.
The talk before the Palace game was when we would go down, not if we would stay up. Nobody thought we'd get 8 points from the last four. Great days, sort of.
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It might be for you, but I strongly susect not for a lot of people. Who on earth has been "banished" as well?
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
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It might be for you, but I strongly susect not for a lot of people. Who on earth has been "banished" as well?
Traore, El Ghazi, Bailey...
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
If they do then I’m pretty sure our owners will question whether they made the right appointment
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It might be for you, but I strongly susect not for a lot of people. Who on earth has been "banished" as well?
Traore, El Ghazi, Bailey...
Bailey wasn't banished at the Molineux when he was ambling around in front of us.
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
If they do then I’m pretty sure our owners will question whether they made the right appointment
I would think they are at this point. As much as i think he should ideally get time, a summer window to build, blah blah blah i think if he gets 4 points or less from these 7 games he should be gone.
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
I think they'll get 1, at best.
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
I think they'll get 1, at best.
Agreed - broadly speaking under Gerrard we win the games we should win, and lose the ones we should lose. Think well win these. I reckon at least 9 points from the last 7
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
I think they'll get 1, at best.
I hope your right, but they have a thing called fighting spirit that we haven't. If we're going to get 6 points in addition to 1 off Burnley it'll be against Norwich and Palace.
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It might be for you, but I strongly susect not for a lot of people. Who on earth has been "banished" as well?
Traore, El Ghazi, Bailey...
Bailey wasn't banished at the Molineux when he was ambling around in front of us.
I didn't see it, but wasn't he played as a striker?
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It might be for you, but I strongly susect not for a lot of people. Who on earth has been "banished" as well?
Traore, El Ghazi, Bailey...
I think if those three had been playing regularly the concerns about relegation would be grounded a lot more in reality than they are now.
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Traore is injured, again. How many matches has he actually been fit for this season? He's made of glass, and doesn't exactly put a shift in when he is fit.
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Traore is injured, again. How many matches has he actually been fit for this season? He's made of glass, and doesn't exactly put a shift in when he is fit.
Another win for our scouting system.
We seem to be going for players with high potential ceilings and skills, but have the consistency and durability of custard.
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
I think they'll get 1, at best.
Agreed - broadly speaking under Gerrard we win the games we should win, and lose the ones we should lose. Think well win these. I reckon at least 9 points from the last 7
We’ve lost to Brentford, Watford and Newcastle since Christmas.
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
I think they'll get 1, at best.
Agreed - broadly speaking under Gerrard we win the games we should win, and lose the ones we should lose. Think well win these. I reckon at least 9 points from the last 7
We’ve lost to Brentford, Watford and Newcastle since Christmas.
Yeah - that phrase "broadly speaking" is doing a lot of the heavy lifting in my statement tbh
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We'll get something at Leicester, and maybe Palace if Zaha stays out of Mings' head.
Burnley (and Norwich to a degree) are teams you do not want to be facing at the sticky end of the season - Especially on our current form.
I'm going for a pessimistic 1 point haul for the rest of the season.
We have a squad made up mostly of international footballers - Any Premier League manager worth their salt should be able to get a song out of them, picking an eleven AND TACTICS that work to our players' strengths... not trying to fit square pegs in round holes and then blame the limitations of the squad?!
Yet to be convinced with our scouse overlord tbh. He talks the talk, but the majority of what we've seen on the pitch has been pretty garbage.
Fans can argue that the first half performance against Spurs was good. We didn't score and ended up on a hiding, so it means nothing. When you have a multi-million pound squad assembled on the pitch, all that matters are points on the board.
Sick of talk of this and that from the manager and players. Shut the fuck up and start doing what you are paid to do.... winning football matches!
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I see the next 3 as a great opportunity. I'm looking forward to tomorrow, there seems something proper about it all. I understand the concerns, I think they're exaggerated and far too much time is spent dwelling on fear than on opportunity. The season has been annoyingly frustrating nonetheless.
Yeah, I used to be a bit of an optimist too. Then reality (or something) struck and it appears I've swapped places with Risso! :-)
This is the first season in a few where we've potentially gone backwards, and I don't like it. We have the ability to beat anyone, that's the disappointing thing.
We do? Half the league maybe...but there's eight or nine clubs who comfortably keep us at arms length when we play them.
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We'll get something at Leicester, and maybe Palace if Zaha stays out of Mings' head.
Burnley (and Norwich to a degree) are teams you do not want to be facing at the sticky end of the season - Especially on our current form.
I'm going for a pessimistic 1 point haul for the rest of the season.
We have a squad made up mostly of international footballers - Any Premier League manager worth their salt should be able to get a song out of them, picking an eleven AND TACTICS that work to our players' strengths... not trying to fit square pegs in round holes and then blame the limitations of the squad?!
Yet to be convinced with our scouse overlord tbh. He talks the talk, but the majority of what we've seen on the pitch has been pretty garbage.
Fans can argue that the first half performance against Spurs was good. We didn't score and ended up on a hiding, so it means nothing. When you have a multi-million pound squad assembled on the pitch, all that matters are points on the board.
Sick of talk of this and that from the manager and players. Shut the fuck up and start doing what you are paid to do.... winning football matches!
If the players take the first half performance into this match and we go onto win, then it will mean something.
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We do? Half the league maybe...but there's eight or nine clubs who comfortably keep us at arms length when we play them.
As I said the other day, I don't think that's quite true. We were robbed of a result at Anfield, and Martinez probably won't let in a goal again like he did against Man U in the rest of his career. West Ham away could have gone either way and we'd probably have won had we taken the lead like we should have done, and if we'd have gone in at half time against Spurs 5-1 up it wouldn't have flattered us. Arsenal at home was a disgrace, as was Wolves away, which were the games we got exactly what we deserved. Of course all managers can point to similar factors, but my point is we're very much competing in those games, and it's a world away from the batterings we used to take from the "Sky 6" in years gone by.
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We do? Half the league maybe...but there's eight or nine clubs who comfortably keep us at arms length when we play them.
As I said the other day, I don't think that's quite true. We were robbed of a result at Anfield, and Martinez probably won't let in a goal again like he did against Man U in the rest of his career. West Ham away could have gone either way and we'd probably have won had we taken the lead like we should have done, and if we'd have gone in at half time against Spurs 5-1 up it wouldn't have flattered us. Arsenal at home was a disgrace, as was Wolves away, which were the games we got exactly what we deserved. Of course all managers can point to similar factors, but my point is we're very much competing in those games, and it's a world away from the batterings we used to take from the "Sky 6" in years gone by.
But arguably no different from our first season back in the league, where we had battling losses against most of the Sky 6. Lost in last minute to Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs all pre-covid that season. Suggests we've not really developed since then.
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Indeed, lot of excuse making for a wretched record against the top 8 this season.
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We do? Half the league maybe...but there's eight or nine clubs who comfortably keep us at arms length when we play them.
As I said the other day, I don't think that's quite true. We were robbed of a result at Anfield, and Martinez probably won't let in a goal again like he did against Man U in the rest of his career. West Ham away could have gone either way and we'd probably have won had we taken the lead like we should have done, and if we'd have gone in at half time against Spurs 5-1 up it wouldn't have flattered us. Arsenal at home was a disgrace, as was Wolves away, which were the games we got exactly what we deserved. Of course all managers can point to similar factors, but my point is we're very much competing in those games, and it's a world away from the batterings we used to take from the "Sky 6" in years gone by.
But arguably no different from our first season back in the league, where we had battling losses against most of the Sky 6. Lost in last minute to Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs all pre-covid that season. Suggests we've not really developed since then.
I think the disapointing thing is we beat Chealsea, Liverpool, Man Utd, Spurs and Aresenal in Dean Smiths last year at the club.
So we know this team can do it. But we havent found a way under SG yet
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Putting results to one side for a minute, I think part of the issue is that it doesn't feel much different than under Smith, except we're playing a system that doesn't suit the players. The manager talks about needing support from the owners for more, and that feels a bit like chucking the players under the bus.
There's no denying we had some crap results under Smith, particularly without you know who, but there was also hope we'd beat anyone on our day. Right now it feels like we're doing what you'd expect, except we aren't routinely beating everyone below us.
Anyway, let's hope we perform as we did against Spurs and that Ings and Watkins actually score and we'll be fine. Or change it, because saying you will, then not doing so and getting the same outcome seems pretty stupid.
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This has been a hugely disappointing season - we were aiming for a top half finish - and apparently budgeted for that. To an outsider it will look like we are further away than last season. Which is a shame after the progress we made in the previous 3
I think everyone involved with the club has to take there share of responsibility for that. Both managers have failed to get us the results that our squad deserves.
Our transfer business last summer looks Poorly thought out in hindsight. Failure to get more options in midfield was also a big mistake
The players, Cash and Ramsey aside have all been worse this season than last season
Our pre season was a joke.
Everyone involved needs to learn lessons from this if we are to progress significantly.
It’s a big ask, and for some involved it will be too big a ask - but it’s essential we get these things right or the next year or two otherwise we risk becoming Everton.
We’re not going down, Gerrard is going to get backed in the summer and a lot of the ingredients are there - so let’s hope we had lift the curse of averageness that has hung over the club for too long
UTV
We're 4 points off the top half with two games in hand. If we beat 9th placed Leicester tomorrow, we'd be two points behind them. Their next match is away to Spurs, we're at home to Norwich. People keep talking as if the season has just finished, when the truth is that we just haven't had a match for two weeks and other teams have. It has been a disappointing season so far, but let's just see how we finish it. 9th or 10th is still possible.
And 17th is possible (and more probable too based on form)
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Putting results to one side for a minute, I think part of the issue is that it doesn't feel much different than under Smith, except we're playing a system that doesn't suit the players. The manager talks about needing support from the owners for more, and that feels a bit like chucking the players under the bus.
There's no denying we had some crap results under Smith, particularly without you know who, but there was also hope we'd beat anyone on our day. Right now it feels like we're doing what you'd expect, except we aren't routinely beating everyone below us.
Anyway, let's hope we perform as we did against Spurs and that Ings and Watkins actually score and we'll be fine. Or change it, because saying you will, then not doing so and getting the same outcome seems pretty stupid.
As I've said though, I think the summer with the sale of Grealish and then some panic buying to replace him knocked any idea of a system we had into a cocked hat. Under Smith we pretty well always played either 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 for all of the last two years. This season in his games we played the following:
Watford 4-1-4-1 (L)
Newcastle 4-3-3 (W)
Brentford 4-1-4-1 (D)
Chelsea 5-3-2 (L)
Everton 5-3-2 (W)
Man U 3-5-2 (W)
Spurs 3-5-2 (L)
Wolves 3-4-1-2 (L)
Arsenal 3-4-1-2 (L)
West Ham 4-3-3 (L)
Southampton 4-2-3-1 (L)
I think that's a pretty good indication that the summer was a bit of a mess in respect of our transfer dealings, and Smith massively struggled to deal with it. Gerrard has done better, but still has the same problems to overcome that Smith did.
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Oh don't get me wrong, Smith tried all sorts this season and we struggled. However, we had various players out injured too, including all of our new signings for varying lengths of time. I suppose what I mean isn't to say Gerrard's system is shit he should do what Smith did, but his system seems to be one that doesn't suit our players much. So why play it? Unless he feels safe and just wants the players to roll their sleeves up and try harder to get it and perform in it and get used to it.
Sometimes you need to change it depending on the opposition.
Interestingly, about tomorrow he's said it's the result, not the performance that's important.
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
I think they'll get 1, at best.
I hope your right, but they have a thing called fighting spirit that we haven't. If we're going to get 6 points in addition to 1 off Burnley it'll be against Norwich and Palace.
That must be why they've just won their 5th game.
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
I think they'll get 1, at best.
I hope your right, but they have a thing called fighting spirit that we haven't. If we're going to get 6 points in addition to 1 off Burnley it'll be against Norwich and Palace.
That must be why they've just won their 5th game.
Yet have lost 3 fewer than we have. We’re a better team than they are but 13 draws suggests they have a bit of fight in them.
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I watched most of the game, they played well
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
I think they'll get 1, at best.
I hope your right, but they have a thing called fighting spirit that we haven't. If we're going to get 6 points in addition to 1 off Burnley it'll be against Norwich and Palace.
That must be why they've just won their 5th game.
Yet have lost 3 fewer than we have. We’re a better team than they are but 13 draws suggests they have a bit of fight in them.
11 wins to their 5 suggests we have a bit more fight and more quality too.
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No it doesn't. How many games have we won from behind
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No it doesn't. How many games have we won from behind
We haven't got more quality than Burnley? Right you are.
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No it doesn't. How many games have we won from behind
How many Burnley players would you have in our squad over ours?
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As far as I can tell Burnley have come from behind once to win in the league this season, against the equally crap Everton.
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No it doesn't. How many games have we won from behind
How many Burnley players would you have in our squad over ours?
Matt Lowton and Ashley Westwood.
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Tarkowski Charlie Taylor Weghorst Cornet.
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No it doesn't. How many games have we won from behind
How many Burnley players would you have in our squad over ours?
in the squad?
Pope (bench)
Lowton (cover for Cash)
Taylor (cover for Digne)
Tarkowski
McNeill (cover for the wingers we don't play :D)
Ben Mee (so I could fine him the maximum fine then release him)
Jay Rodriguez (see above)
Westwood (probably not much worse than Luiz)
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No it doesn't. How many games have we won from behind
How many Burnley players would you have in our squad over ours?
in the squad?
Pope (bench)
Lowton (cover for Cash)
Taylor (cover for Digne)
Tarkowski
McNeill (cover for the wingers we don't play :D)
Ben Mee (so I could fine him the maximum fine then release him)
Jay Rodriguez (see above)
Westwood (probably not much worse than Luiz)
If we had any of those in our squad over what we have now, there would be a meltdown on here, Pope aside.
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those are over squad players - not many first teamers. Although, whoever signs for Villa there's a meltdown :D
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From what I've seen I'd have Taylor at left over Digne
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
I think they'll get 1, at best.
I hope your right, but they have a thing called fighting spirit that we haven't. If we're going to get 6 points in addition to 1 off Burnley it'll be against Norwich and Palace.
That must be why they've just won their 5th game.
Yet have lost 3 fewer than we have. We’re a better team than they are but 13 draws suggests they have a bit of fight in them.
11 wins to their 5 suggests we have a bit more fight and more quality too.
They’re fighting relegation. I really wish I didn’t have to explain what I meant to people when you’d think it was obvious, but there you go. Won 2 games recently against Everton and Southampton because they’re FIGHTING RELEGATION. You know, that thing that a few teams do every season. Fucking hell.
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The club had decided they needed a change, the man they appointed has us still worrying about an outside chance of relegation after losing 4 in a row with 7 games remaining. So yes, the way football works it’s largely on him.
I'm a lot less worried about relegation now than I was after Smith's last game and as you say that's down to the manager so thanks to Stevie G.
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
I think they'll get 1, at best.
I hope your right, but they have a thing called fighting spirit that we haven't. If we're going to get 6 points in addition to 1 off Burnley it'll be against Norwich and Palace.
That must be why they've just won their 5th game.
Yet have lost 3 fewer than we have. We’re a better team than they are but 13 draws suggests they have a bit of fight in them.
11 wins to their 5 suggests we have a bit more fight and more quality too.
They’re fighting relegation. I really wish I didn’t have to explain what I meant to people when you’d think it was obvious, but there you go. Won 2 games recently against Everton and Southampton because they’re FIGHTING RELEGATION. You know, that thing that a few teams do every season. Fucking hell.
That thing that 3 teams fail to fight every year, because they're shit, like Burnley for example? Yeah I know it.
What was your point? That "pashun" makes up for huge quality gaps? As it doesn't. Turds flush, every year. I'd like it to be Everton purely for the spectacle, but it won't be on balance I wouldn't have thought.
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I'd somehow love Everton and Leeds to go - won't happen though.
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I'd somehow love Everton and Leeds to go - won't happen though.
We can beat them though, bloody Burnley, Brentford and Watford on the other hand. Bastard teams!
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Regardless of this mini revival it will be Burnley going down not Everton.
They'll get 4 points from us though i reckon.
I think they'll get 1, at best.
I hope your right, but they have a thing called fighting spirit that we haven't. If we're going to get 6 points in addition to 1 off Burnley it'll be against Norwich and Palace.
That must be why they've just won their 5th game.
Yet have lost 3 fewer than we have. We’re a better team than they are but 13 draws suggests they have a bit of fight in them.
11 wins to their 5 suggests we have a bit more fight and more quality too.
They’re fighting relegation. I really wish I didn’t have to explain what I meant to people when you’d think it was obvious, but there you go. Won 2 games recently against Everton and Southampton because they’re FIGHTING RELEGATION. You know, that thing that a few teams do every season. Fucking hell.
That thing that 3 teams fail to fight every year, because they're shit, like Burnley for example? Yeah I know it.
What was your point? That "pashun" makes up for huge quality gaps? As it doesn't. Turds flush, every year. I'd like it to be Everton purely for the spectacle, but it won't be on balance I wouldn't have thought.
The point is that teams fighting relegation playing against flat teams that look like they’re on the beach like we do at the moment will fancy their chances. You think we’ll do better than I do and that’s fine, I’ve no problem with that but judging by the pissy little comment which isn’t relevant to the point I’m making suggests that you can’t accept someone doubting us, as shit as we are right now.
I think you’re deluded saying there is a ‘huge quality gap’ as well, although we are better player for player on paper.
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I dont think we look flat. I think we looked the best we had all season in the first half against Spurs and then became Son's bunny, again as we did in October and February 20.
You're doing contortions and rolling out clichés to try and scare yourself from 0.8 points per game and 5 wins all season Burnley. The reasons for that are your own, but I think they're grossly exaggerated. They'll more than likely be relegated, as they've stunk the league out for some time.
Were Southampton on the beach when we annihilated them? Were they on the beach when they beat Arsenal the game before? Were Burnley when they lost 2-0 to Norwich?
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The club had decided they needed a change, the man they appointed has us still worrying about an outside chance of relegation after losing 4 in a row with 7 games remaining. So yes, the way football works it’s largely on him.
I'm a lot less worried about relegation now than I was after Smith's last game and as you say that's down to the manager so thanks to Stevie G.
Comedy gold
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What concerns me is that Burnley are perennial scrappers and will kick teams all over the park. This is something we lack. Hopefully, we beat Norwich and make the whole concerned thing go away.
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I'm not too worried. We should have enough points already. It'll be pretty crap if it's the end of the season that saves us though.
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One win and 3 points should be enough to secure our safety.
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The club had decided they needed a change, the man they appointed has us still worrying about an outside chance of relegation after losing 4 in a row with 7 games remaining. So yes, the way football works it’s largely on him.
I'm a lot less worried about relegation now than I was after Smith's last game and as you say that's down to the manager so thanks to Stevie G.
Comedy gold
Cheers fella, I find your posts amusing too.
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The club had decided they needed a change, the man they appointed has us still worrying about an outside chance of relegation after losing 4 in a row with 7 games remaining. So yes, the way football works it’s largely on him.
I'm a lot less worried about relegation now than I was after Smith's last game and as you say that's down to the manager so thanks to Stevie G.
Comedy gold
Todays modern soccer fan has the patience of a nat! Gerrard needs time to fix the very gaping problems he inherited. I’m not saying he will - but the very least he deserves is the opportunity now he’s been appointed. It takes more than 13 games that’s for sure.
Gerrard has the rest of this season and two transfer windows to stamp his mark - he will be judged on what happens at the start of next season, not what happens the remainder of this.
Saying Gerrard needs to go is hysteria of the very highest regard.
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Well done sir. Is there a point other than to show people your a troll?
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Pretty obvious isn’t it.
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To show he’s trolling me?! 😀
Silly debate. We all have opinions, we change our opinions. If the point was to show I changed my opinion based on the most recent evidence, he succeeded.
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It’s a bit of a ridiculous swing though wouldn’t you say?
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It’s a bit of a ridiculous swing though wouldn’t you say?
One that even Peter Snow would have trouble measuring.
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It's the last quote that's the most telling. We win 3 games on the spin, so what we can deduce is it takes 4 games to flip 180°.
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as i expected - the apologists out in force to defend their man tonight.
evening all.
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Comedy gold.
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as i expected - the apologists out in force to defend their man tonight.
Sorry about that.
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Weird again from someone who very vocally stated Gerrard needed time.
I don’t think there are Gerrard apologists per se. I think it’s more that people are prepared to give him a bit of time and a pre-season before leaping to judgement. He might not succeed, but I personally think it’s too soon to decide that.
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If I'm a Gerrard apologist, then I was a Smith apologist, a Brice apologist etc etc. Or a Villa supporter.
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If I'm a Gerrard apologist, then I was a Smith apologist, a Brice apologist etc etc. Or a Villa supporter.
You've certainly cupped the slenders of a couple of shite managers. Wink.
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If I'm a Gerrard apologist, then I was a Smith apologist, a Brice apologist etc etc. Or a Villa supporter.
You've certainly cupped the slenders of a couple of shite managers. Wink.
Too many breakfast puddings!
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It's the last quote that's the most telling. We win 3 games on the spin, so what we can deduce is it takes 4 games to flip 180°.
And everyone that doesn't flip with him is wrong, and an 'apologist'.
What is it with these people?
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Burnley winning and we play them twice. If Everton manage to sort themselves out we are seriously in for a relegation battle . Draw yesterday was not enough , Norwich is an absolute MUST WIN but we can't find the net so I'm not very hopeful
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Burnley winning and we play them twice. If Everton manage to sort themselves out we are seriously in for a relegation battle . Draw yesterday was not enough , Norwich is an absolute MUST WIN but we can't find the net so I'm not very hopeful
I'm not sure we'd be relying on you to be hopeful on our behalf.
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Burnley winning and we play them twice. If Everton manage to sort themselves out we are seriously in for a relegation battle . Draw yesterday was not enough , Norwich is an absolute MUST WIN but we can't find the net so I'm not very hopeful
The drama and misery of it all. What do you do on weekends when we win, kick a cat?
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Norwich is a must win now! Perhaps getting rid of Dyche was a smart move after all!
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Burnley winning and we play them twice. If Everton manage to sort themselves out we are seriously in for a relegation battle . Draw yesterday was not enough , Norwich is an absolute MUST WIN but we can't find the net so I'm not very hopeful
Burnley winning today isn't ideal, but is a far worse result for Everton and Leeds than it is for ourselves. Those two clubs will be bricking it right now.
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Everton must be favourites to drop now.
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Burnley might just escape now, Everton have a tough run of games.....
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Burnley winning and we play them twice. If Everton manage to sort themselves out we are seriously in for a relegation battle . Draw yesterday was not enough , Norwich is an absolute MUST WIN but we can't find the net so I'm not very hopeful
If, if, if, if.
If all the really shit sides suddenly stop being really shit and find consistency and if we just lose every game 5 nil, yeah, we may go down.
Or we will more than likely finish 13-11th and we'll away from it all.
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Looking grim for Everton now.....
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Chelsea next...
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We might be four wins ahead by the time Everton play again.
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If I'm a Gerrard apologist, then I was a Smith apologist, a Brice apologist etc etc. Or a Villa supporter.
You've certainly cupped the slenders of a couple of shite managers. Wink.
Too many breakfast puddings!
Brice Jovial lives!
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Beat Norwich, end the uncertainty. It’s in our own hands.
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Burnley winning and we play them twice. If Everton manage to sort themselves out we are seriously in for a relegation battle . Draw yesterday was not enough , Norwich is an absolute MUST WIN but we can't find the net so I'm not very hopeful
Bookies offering anything between 100/1 and 200/1 on us going down. You can make some serious money.
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200/1 on SkyBet - might whack a tenner on.
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Don't waste your cash, give it to charity instead.
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I’m a where there’s a slither of a chance of getting relegated but have you seen the problems Leeds might have apart from Everton’s Woes.
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Beat Norwich, end the uncertainty. It’s in our own hands.
We’re not going down. It’s 3 of 4 and two of those are basically decided.
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Beat Norwich, end the uncertainty. It’s in our own hands.
We’re not going down. It’s 3 of 4 and two of those are basically decided.
I'd say it's 3 of 5 although not sure if Burnley, Everton or Leeds will take the third spot.
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It's still mathematically possible.
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It is, but it won’t happen.
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It is, but it won’t happen.
It's the pedantic pessimist in me.
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Yeah I understand that feeling, and normally I have it, but this time I’m pretty relaxed.
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It is, but it won’t happen.
It's the pedantic pessimist in me.
I take it you will back Norwich to win 2-0 in the pre-match?
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It is, but it won’t happen.
It's the pedantic pessimist in me.
I take it you will back Norwich to win 2-0 in the pre-match?
Most probably.
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It is, but it won’t happen.
It's the pedantic pessimist in me.
It is starting to get a little too close, but a win next Saturday and other results going our way should relieve that. A defeat and other results go against us could only leave us five points above it.
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I highly doubt Everton are going to get 8/9 more points this season, but I doubt it even more that we’re going to get no points from our last 6 games. There’s no way we’re going to be relegated.
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I highly doubt Everton are going to get 8/9 more points this season, but I doubt it even more that we’re going to get no points from our last 6 games. There’s no way we’re going to be relegated.
You're right but the fact that we are even having this conversation with six games to go after a Ł100 million spend in the summer and further acquisitions in January is pretty dispiriting.
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Minimum ask at the beginning of the season was a top half finish
It’s not changed for me that’s what I’m still hoping for
All this talk of a relegation fight, We are 8 points clear of the relegation zone and 5 points off the top half with a reasonable run in
I was disappointed in the last two seasons finishing positions and I’ll be disappointed this season if we finish in the bottom half I’m not going to change my expectation levels just because we changed manager
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Minimum ask at the beginning of the season was a top half finish
It’s not changed for me that’s what I’m still hoping for
All this talk of a relegation fight, We are 8 points clear of the relegation zone and 5 points off the top half with a reasonable run in
I was disappointed in the last two seasons finishing positions and I’ll be disappointed this season if we finish in the bottom half I’m not going to change my expectation levels just because we changed manager
Agreed John, if we don’t there will be no excuses for finishing below clubs such as Newcastle, Crystal Palace or Brentford.
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Minimum ask at the beginning of the season was a top half finish
It’s not changed for me that’s what I’m still hoping for
All this talk of a relegation fight, We are 8 points clear of the relegation zone and 5 points off the top half with a reasonable run in
I was disappointed in the last two seasons finishing positions and I’ll be disappointed this season if we finish in the bottom half I’m not going to change my expectation levels just because we changed manager
Agreed John, if we don’t there will be no excuses for finishing below clubs such as Newcastle, Crystal Palace or Brentford.
Correct, This team and the investment over the last few years there is no way we should be finishing near the relegation zones
Like you say no excuses
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Win the next two as we should and the table looks a whole lot more positive.
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Win the next two as we should and the table looks a whole lot more positive.
Yep - Saturday is massive. Get the win that we absolutely should get, and we're over the line. We can then relax, give the kids a bit more game-time, and hopefully play with a bit more freedom and flair than we have been doing. It could make for an enjoyable end to the season which, I think it's fair to say, the fans probably deserve given how miserable a lot of this season has been.
On a personal level, I'm bringing my four-year-old to his first match on Saturday, so it is the biggest game of the season for me! My first game was aged four, at home to Norwich in 1990. Arguably, we haven't been as good since that day, so I'm hoping my son can help us reset the clock!
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Hope he has a great day boozey. Taking your children to their first match is always a great occasion.
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Wish we were playing Burnley at home first. They've won their last three at Turf Moor and have that collective fighting spirit that we...possibly don't. Whoever wins the first game will begin the return match with confidence.
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Hope he has a great day boozey. Taking your children to their first match is always a great occasion.
Thanks Risso. I think I'm more excited than he is at the moment, but I'm hoping he gets bitten by the bug when Coutinho puts us 4-0 up...
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Hope he has a great day boozey. Taking your children to their first match is always a great occasion.
Thanks Risso. I think I'm more excited than he is at the moment, but I'm hoping he gets bitten by the bug when Coutinho puts us 4-0 up...
I started taking my two oldest kids in the Lambert/Sherwood era. I remember my son saying in all seriousness "Dad, do Aston Villa ever score goals?" Think it was during that run at the start of the 14/15 season.
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Win the next two as we should and the table looks a whole lot more positive.
Yep - Saturday is massive. Get the win that we absolutely should get, and we're over the line. We can then relax, give the kids a bit more game-time, and hopefully play with a bit more freedom and flair than we have been doing. It could make for an enjoyable end to the season which, I think it's fair to say, the fans probably deserve given how miserable a lot of this season has been.
On a personal level, I'm bringing my four-year-old to his first match on Saturday, so it is the biggest game of the season for me! My first game was aged four, at home to Norwich in 1990. Arguably, we haven't been as good since that day, so I'm hoping my son can help us reset the clock!
My sons first game was around his 5th birthday in 2015. We lost 0-1 to a last minute Swansea goal, awful game….he somehow still got the bug, despite this and the terrible 2015-16 season.
Hope your sons first game is a lot more positive result and performance wise.
Your right though, this is a massive game for Gerrard and this team. Smith will have his team up for a last stand and won’t want to lose at VP. Gerrard really needs a good day here.
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Mine was Dean Smith's final game. Not the greatest choice in hindsight.
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Look where we were after beating Leeds:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59736886
15 points clear of Burnley.
More importantly we were just 7 points off Wolves with a game in hand and even West Ham were still within reach.
Since then Wolves have lost to Leeds, Newcastle and Burnley and yet are still 12 points clear, simply not good enough at all.
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Look where we were after beating Leeds:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59736886
15 points clear of Burnley.
More importantly we were just 7 points off Wolves with a game in hand and even West Ham were still within reach.
Since then Wolves have lost to Leeds, Newcastle and Burnley and yet are still 12 points clear, simply not good enough at all.
Only 5 weeks ago.
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Win the next two as we should and the table looks a whole lot more positive.
Lose the next two and the table looks a whole lot more negative.
Saturday is a huge game. It's a game most of us will expect Villa to win, its against a former manager that some of us feel we binned when there was no need, and its at home. They will be up for it for obvious reasons, we should be up for it for the same reasons.
That should be the singular and only focus for the team this week. There can be no excuses.
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Win the next two as we should and the table looks a whole lot more positive.
Lose the next two and the table looks a whole lot more negative.
Saturday is a huge game. It's a game most of us will expect Villa to win, its against a former manager that some of us feel we binned when there was no need, and its at home. They will be up for it for obvious reasons, we should be up for it for the same reasons.
That should be the singular and only focus for the team this week. There can be no excuses.
I think well win it comfortably
I think if we dont win it, then the mumours will start to get louder
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I haven't been worried about relegation at any point this season. Lose to Norwich though and for the first time i would start to think we're cutting it very fine, and we'd certainly need the win against Palace.
I think we'll beat Norwich by 2 goals though personally.
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I haven't been worried about relegation at any point this season. Lose to Norwich though and for the first time i would start to think we're cutting it very fine, and we'd certainly need the win against Palace.
I think we'll beat Norwich by 2 goals though personally.
Agreed - think it will be tight to start with, but think our quality will show through
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We will easily hammer Norwich and I doubt we would ever lose twice to Burnley with games close together. They've probably had their no manager bounce a few weeks too early. We've had our 4 defeats blip now we will stick a few results together. Bit like the houllier season when we were in a slump then Gary Mac took over, think we got a couple of big scalps late on. Gives me hope we will get something at the etihad, A couthinio worldie then backs to the wall for the remaining, rotterdam style. Headlines of Gerrard's tactical masterclass breaks city hearts and jacks tears. I'm a true football romantic;D
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Minimum ask at the beginning of the season was a top half finish
It’s not changed for me that’s what I’m still hoping for
All this talk of a relegation fight, We are 8 points clear of the relegation zone and 5 points off the top half with a reasonable run in
I was disappointed in the last two seasons finishing positions and I’ll be disappointed this season if we finish in the bottom half I’m not going to change my expectation levels just because we changed manager
Yep, I agree. For me, I guessed losing Grealish in the summer would put us back a fair bit, so the aim in my head was to do the same as the season before, or finish a place or two higher. That would represent progress to me, since we'd have successfully replaced the one of the best Villa players in my lifetime.
For all the doom-mongering, there's no way we're going down. 9th/10th/11th is still very achievable in my mind - we're what, 6pts off 9th with a couple of games in hand and a better goal difference than all bar 2 teams above us (up to 9th), half our remaining games are against sides who are either going down, or close to, and 1 is against a team you'd probably expect to finish in the bottom half (Palace) Of those 4 games, 3 are at home. I mean, fair enough we're not going to be coming away with much from Liverpool or Man City, but otherwise it looks pretty favourable for us to be honest.
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My lads first game was Derby at home! He turns 7 on Friday and will be hopefully rewarded with a birthday 3 points the following day.
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Win the next two as we should and the table looks a whole lot more positive.
Absolutely. Let's cling on to that thought.
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Oh, and there's absolutely no way we're going down. None.
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Knowing our luck we'll be hit with a points deduction in relation to the failure of technology against Sheff. Utd.
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Win the next two as we should and the table looks a whole lot more positive.
Yep - Saturday is massive. Get the win that we absolutely should get, and we're over the line. We can then relax, give the kids a bit more game-time, and hopefully play with a bit more freedom and flair than we have been doing. It could make for an enjoyable end to the season which, I think it's fair to say, the fans probably deserve given how miserable a lot of this season has been.
On a personal level, I'm bringing my four-year-old to his first match on Saturday, so it is the biggest game of the season for me! My first game was aged four, at home to Norwich in 1990. Arguably, we haven't been as good since that day, so I'm hoping my son can help us reset the clock!
My sons first game was around his 5th birthday in 2015. We lost 0-1 to a last minute Swansea goal, awful game….he somehow still got the bug, despite this and the terrible 2015-16 season.
Hope your sons first game is a lot more positive result and performance wise.
Your right though, this is a massive game for Gerrard and this team. Smith will have his team up for a last stand and won’t want to lose at VP. Gerrard really needs a good day here.
God that was a shit game. Had just got over Flu and took my missus. Highlight was getting a Swansea fan start on me near the witton Tescoes and seeing a nose I grew up with waiting for the 11 wearing a Swansea shirt.....
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Oh, and there's absolutely no way we're going down. None.
Yes but it’s harrowing that with half a dozen games to go we are even talking about it after spending the money we have spent.
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We’re 200-1 to go down, and 5/2 to finish in the top half. The fact we’re talking about it is more down to the nature of football fans (and maybe Brummies?) than logic.
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We’re 200-1 to go down, and 5/2 to finish in the top half. The fact we’re talking about it is more down to the nature of football fans (and maybe Brummies?) than logic.
And the fact that we’ve only taken one point from the last 5 games. We won’t go down but its no surprise that some people are a bit twitchy.
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I think Everton have a max 9 points in them, not sure about Burnley but we get 2 more points we're safe imo - not much to ask.
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Not worried as we have a relatively easy run in. We should pick up the required points against Norwich and Burnley, if we can't them frankly we deserve to be in trouble (but we will).
It was always going to be a difficult season losing Jack in the way we did and with the poor timing. The transfers had to be spot on and also needed to click straight away, but neither happened. We didn't address problems that we had even before Jack left (powder puff midfield), and then failed to address them again in January. The players we did bring in have not been very good thus far either. Some of the players may turn out better next season with a better organised pre-season, but more questions need asking of Purslow and Lange than of Gerrard at this stage.
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I think Everton have a max 9 points in them, not sure about Burnley but we get 2 more points we're safe imo - not much to ask.
Everton have only got 10 points from their last 13 games, it'd be a suprise if they get 9 from their last 6.
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Not worried as we have a relatively easy run in. We should pick up the required points against Norwich and Burnley, if we can't them frankly we deserve to be in trouble (but we will).
It was always going to be a difficult season losing Jack in the way we did and with the poor timing. The transfers had to be spot on and also needed to click straight away, but neither happened. We didn't address problems that we had even before Jack left (powder puff midfield), and then failed to address them again in January. The players we did bring in have not been very good thus far either. Some of the players may turn out better next season with a better organised pre-season, but more questions need asking of Purslow and Lange than of Gerrard at this stage.
yeah thats probably a fair comment - and possibly where the axe would fall first
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Saturday is massive, huge, enormous. Gargantuan even.
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Saturday is massive, huge, enormous. Gargantuan even.
It really isn’t.
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I can see some of the crowd getting pretty pissed off if we go behind and aren't showing much. Not turning, but starting to 'show their frustration' or 'making their feelings known'.
If we can play anything like we did for 45 minutes vs Spurs it should be fairly comfortable, I think Coutinho will be back on form.
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Saturday is massive, huge, enormous. Gargantuan even.
It really isn’t.
You are quite correct.
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I can see the crowd really enjoyng the afternoon as we score a few and get a win.
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Saturday is massive, huge, enormous. Gargantuan even.
It really isn’t.
No, it's Brobdingnagian.
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Oh, and there's absolutely no way we're going down. None.
Yes but it’s harrowing that with half a dozen games to go we are even talking about it after spending the money we have spent.
And now over to our Villa correspondent Aftab who's with the Mariupol Lions for the run-in. ;)
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I didn't realise that Villa play Liverpool the Tuesday before the FA Cup Final. Unlikely to play their A side I wouldn't have thought, hopefully, clinging to any possible advantage we can get.
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I suspect they'd rather win the league than the FA Cup.
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Yes, full strength team against us, not so strong for final
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Will probably still win both.
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Will probably still win both.
Who are they playing in the FA Cup final?
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The lot from the Fulham Road.
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Oh well that's an exciting change then. I'll look forward to not bothering to watch that.
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37 points after 32 games considering our budget and players is embarrassing let's be honest. But we will have enough to survive. It has been a rotten season, starting with a shambolic pre season and ending with a whimper. Even Smith finished last season with some good results against the likes of Spurs and Chelsea that promised a bright future.
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Oh, and there's absolutely no way we're going down. None.
Yes but it’s harrowing that with half a dozen games to go we are even talking about it after spending the money we have spent.
And now over to our Villa correspondent Aftab who's with the Mariupol Lions for the run-in. ;)
I have heard the foundry at Mariupol is still hot keeping the “Lions” warm whereas hell will freeze over at VP on Saturday.
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Oh well that's an exciting change then. I'll look forward to not bothering to watch that.
Yes, I'll make a note I my diary to do something, anything else
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The reason we have this thread is that we gave Watford over 25% of the points they have this season. We really should be sat on 46 points then the whole discussion would be different. Norwich were awful, but Watford ran them close.
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Can't believe we're still 9 points off Wolves. Utterly clueless losing not just at home but the away game to them recently.
End of the day stick Grealish back in this team and we'd be over 50 points now and actually be in serious contention for europa so just shows you how important he was for us and perhaps we're not as far away as people think IF we can just find that match winner from somewhere over next 12 months.
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Everton just beat Chelsea 1-0. Really good defensive display. I've got a feeling you'll probably need the 40 points this year to stay up. Normally 37 points and you're ok. Leeds look in danger now. We probably need another 2 or 3 points to be absolutely safe.
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I never make Villa predictions in earnest, but if we're not safe then neither are Brentford or Southampton, particularly the latter, who we have two games in hand on and who play Liverpool and Leicester. Plus those two sides meet next anyway.
If you want to be definite, I'd say any random point will do it for us.
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Looking at the fixtures Burnley, Everton and Leeds have left, i don’t think any of them will reach the fabled 40 points, that is literally never needed anymore. Unless of course Burnley beat us twice which is conceivable I suppose.
Evertons win has put the cat amongst the pigeons though, id say they have a slightly easier run in, with my Villa bias on for Burnleys run in. If i had to pick one, i’d say Leeds look more likely, as well as Chelsea and Arsenal they have to play a bang in form Brighton and tricky away game at Brentford.
I think we’re fine, although lose to Burnley on Saturday and i’ll get slightly twitchy again.
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I can see Southampton getting no more points this season - their recent form is even worth than ours. They're probably safe because Leeds - who have the hardest run-in - would need 7 pts from 4 games given their terrible goal difference. Still, with Saints at 80-1 for relegation, might be worth a punt?
I never make Villa predictions in earnest, but if we're not safe then neither are Brentford or Southampton, particularly the latter, who we have two games in hand on and who play Liverpool and Leicester. Plus those two sides meet next anyway.
If you want to be definite, I'd say any random point will do it for us.
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I can see Southampton getting no more points this season - their recent form is even worth than ours. They're probably safe because Leeds - who have the hardest run-in - would need 7 pts from 4 games given their terrible goal difference. Still, with Saints at 80-1 for relegation, might be worth a punt?
I never make Villa predictions in earnest, but if we're not safe then neither are Brentford or Southampton, particularly the latter, who we have two games in hand on and who play Liverpool and Leicester. Plus those two sides meet next anyway.
If you want to be definite, I'd say any random point will do it for us.
Southampton are a team who could just as easily win 4-0 as lose 4-0. Brentford and Liverpool will probably beat them but Leicester will roll over, especially if they reach their European final.
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No.
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Slightly less worried now.
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If Burnley manage to stick five past us without reply...
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Even that wouldn’t be enough.
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We’re safe now anyway, unless Leeds manage to around a -35 goal difference.
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Leeds have a 35 goal deficit. Hopefully we don't squander that !!
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The way Ming's is playing has got me worried
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The way Ming's is playing has got me worried
and Konsa - he was sloppy yesterday