Anybody starting to get worried…… again?

[Beard82]

We are all, me included, assuming that Gerrard will make a good manager but what if we’re wrong?

His only experience to date is in a league where Alex McLeish won the treble.

This is the big issue - we have appointed a rookie manager, whose name has got him the job, with very little relevant experience.  It seems a big risk rebuilding a whole squad in his image, when we don't actually know if he is any good.

But, he will have made it very clear what he was expecting in terms of backing, so its for the club to decide if they have the faith in him - after 8 games I think we all did.  After 16 we're not so sure. 

[LeonW]

If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.

You make some good points, Leon.
Whether SG can get more out of the squad-mainstay players remains to be seen. I'm guessing that he will clear several out in the summer ... which will be a kill-or-cure approach; high risk but maybe necessary.
What I don't want is that he restocks the squad with MON-esque expensive replacements who fail to raise the overall quality significantly. And, I don't want the academy talent to be ignored.

Those are my concerns too. We’ve got ourselves into a decent position with regards FFP and age profile of the squad from where we were. It would be a massive regret (but a totally Villa thing to do) to waste that position.

[Risso]

I don't think it's fair to blame Gerrard (or Smith for that matter) for the deficiencies in the DoF role. They did a mostly shit job in the first year back, and haven't found the DM we've desperately needed for 3 years. The injuries to Traore and Bailey also can't be laid at Gerrard's door.  We've just got too many players who aren't good enough. Have a look again at some of the games we lost during Smith's last 5 games. The Arsenal match especially (with a full first team practically) was pathetic and we were fortunate not to be 7 or 8 down in the first half. Those players are still the backbone of our team, and half of them just aren't up to it.

If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.

These are the same players who had lost five in a row, and would probably have lost the next five under Smith. Who do you honestly think we'd sell for more than we paid now? I'd argue:
McGinn (signed under Bruce before either Pitarch/Lange were in a job)
Mings - perhaps. High profile, England player.
Konsa - Yes, probably get £20m plus now
Martinez - definitely. The shining light of the recruitment policy

After that, I think we'd really struggle. No chance would we get more than we paid for Ings, Watkins, Cash, Luiz, Buendia, Digne, Traore, Sanson, Bailey. Not that they're bad players, we just paid top whack for them and a lot of them haven't even justified that fee yet.

[ASHTONVILLA]

If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.

You make some good points, Leon.
Whether SG can get more out of the squad-mainstay players remains to be seen. I'm guessing that he will clear several out in the summer ... which will be a kill-or-cure approach; high risk but maybe necessary.
What I don't want is that he restocks the squad with MON-esque expensive replacements who fail to raise the overall quality significantly. And, I don't want the academy talent to be ignored.

If he got rid of Mings, McGinn, Traore, Trezuguet, El Ghazi, Luiz, Ings, Sanson and Watkins and the club chucked another £50-100m in the pot then there should be more than enough to get 2 decent strikers, a centre back and a DM in. We would not need to directly replace the wingers or the no. 8s as we do not play with wingers and have better no. 8s in the squad with more coming through.

[Beard82]

I don't think it's fair to blame Gerrard (or Smith for that matter) for the deficiencies in the DoF role. They did a mostly shit job in the first year back, and haven't found the DM we've desperately needed for 3 years. The injuries to Traore and Bailey also can't be laid at Gerrard's door.  We've just got too many players who aren't good enough. Have a look again at some of the games we lost during Smith's last 5 games. The Arsenal match especially (with a full first team practically) was pathetic and we were fortunate not to be 7 or 8 down in the first half. Those players are still the backbone of our team, and half of them just aren't up to it.

If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.

These are the same players who had lost five in a row, and would probably have lost the next five under Smith. Who do you honestly think we'd sell for more than we paid now? I'd argue:
McGinn (signed under Bruce before either Pitarch/Lange were in a job)
Mings - perhaps. High profile, England player.
Konsa - Yes, probably get £20m plus now
Martinez - definitely. The shining light of the recruitment policy

After that, I think we'd really struggle. No chance would we get more than we paid for Ings, Watkins, Cash, Luiz, Buendia, Digne, Traore, Sanson, Bailey. Not that they're bad players, we just paid top whack for them and a lot of them haven't even justified that fee yet.

We have had offers / interest in Cash, Luiz, Watkins all at much above the price we paid. 

These aren't bad players just not played to their strengths this season by either manager. 

[Risso]

Who has shown an interest/bid for Watkins at more than we paid?

[ASHTONVILLA]

I don't think it's fair to blame Gerrard (or Smith for that matter) for the deficiencies in the DoF role. They did a mostly shit job in the first year back, and haven't found the DM we've desperately needed for 3 years. The injuries to Traore and Bailey also can't be laid at Gerrard's door.  We've just got too many players who aren't good enough. Have a look again at some of the games we lost during Smith's last 5 games. The Arsenal match especially (with a full first team practically) was pathetic and we were fortunate not to be 7 or 8 down in the first half. Those players are still the backbone of our team, and half of them just aren't up to it.

If Lange has no influence then he is simply a shield or convenient scape goat for others. But how bad has the recruitment been since we came back up both under him and his predecessor? For the failures like Wesley, Samatta, etc, many of the current first team squad would be sold for profits tomorrow. These are the same players that have beaten some of the best sides in the land in the not too distant past and become internationals with their countries. If they were consistent, elite players, they probably wouldn’t have signed for us with where we currently are/have come from. Is SG getting enough out of those same players? Not for me. Is he going to get what Pep has at City (2 elite players per position)? No, so he needs to cut his cloth accordingly. This last week has been a disaster for his man management skills and the players know it’s easier for a club to replace the manager then a squad.

These are the same players who had lost five in a row, and would probably have lost the next five under Smith. Who do you honestly think we'd sell for more than we paid now? I'd argue:
McGinn (signed under Bruce before either Pitarch/Lange were in a job)
Mings - perhaps. High profile, England player.
Konsa - Yes, probably get £20m plus now
Martinez - definitely. The shining light of the recruitment policy

After that, I think we'd really struggle. No chance would we get more than we paid for Ings, Watkins, Cash, Luiz, Buendia, Digne, Traore, Sanson, Bailey. Not that they're bad players, we just paid top whack for them and a lot of them haven't even justified that fee yet.

We have had offers / interest in Cash, Luiz, Watkins all at much above the price we paid. 

These aren't bad players just not played to their strengths this season by either manager. 

Or - they don't have the strengths we need to play in one of three formations under two managers this season. They may be fine in different set ups but they have been bad players in ours this season. In the case of Watkins and Luiz I think they probably are not very good full stop.

[SoccerHQ]

I don't think there's much doubt that Purslow wanted Gerrard and not much more doubt that he wanted him at the first possible opportunity.

Some rumours that Purslow may step down in the summer. I'd consider it if I were him and leave the next CEO to take the flak next season as last few weeks are good evidence that Gerrard isn't going to take us to the heights that appointing him was supposed to herald.

If the SG appointment quickly goes wrong I suspect he won’t have a choice on when he leaves.

Yeah the owners won't be impressed if we continue nosediving and finish up like a McLeish/Lambert position of 16th on 38 points.

Mind you it was said they wanted a manager with a profile given the Henry interest when they first came in so think they'd have been pretty happy with Gerrard pick.

Not a good look though to sack a popular manager for five straight defeats and just above relegation zone....and then end the season with his replacement in similar position.

[Beard82]

Who has shown an interest/bid for Watkins at more than we paid?

Arsenal were meant to be interested in him for a "mooted" 45m. 

[Mister E]

These are the same players who had lost five in a row, and would probably have lost the next five under Smith. Who do you honestly think we'd sell for more than we paid now? I'd argue:
McGinn (signed under Bruce before either Pitarch/Lange were in a job)
Mings - perhaps. High profile, England player.
Konsa - Yes, probably get £20m plus now
Martinez - definitely. The shining light of the recruitment policy

After that, I think we'd really struggle. No chance would we get more than we paid for Ings, Watkins, Cash, Luiz, Buendia, Digne, Traore, Sanson, Bailey. Not that they're bad players, we just paid top whack for them and a lot of them haven't even justified that fee yet.

I'd hope we would not be selling Konsa, but he would fetch at least £30m, given the prices of other CB recently (MaGuire, Verane, Ben White, Nathan Ake, for example).
Watkins, Cash and Luiz would sell for more than we paid, for sure.

[SoccerHQ]

Who has shown an interest/bid for Watkins at more than we paid?

Been rumours of Arsenal and Spurs looking at him as a squad striker.

Think Howe would take him at Newcastle although them signing Chris Wood makes it less likely.

[ChicagoLion]

Who has shown an interest/bid for Watkins at more than we paid?

I would love to see these offers.

[Risso]

Just seen these comments from Gerrard about Watkins:

He explained: “You are not going to keep every person happy every single game. It’s normal for people to criticise, point fingers, to be fickle. If you’re a player and you go looking for that I’m sure you’ll find it. For me it’s important the players remain focused, they believe in what we’re doing and they focus on their individual performances.
“I don’t think you gain anything, and you’re not going to improve yourself or your performance if you go looking for outside noise.
“It’s out there. It’s out there for me, it’s out there for all the players and if you want to find it, you can find it. My advice to the players is to ignore what’s being said on the outside and focus on what you have to do on the inside.
“I’m not saying stop social media. But if you’re on social media and you’re looking for negative comments and you don’t feel good about them then you’ve probably got yourself to blame

FFS. Gerrard out!

[ChicagoLion]

Just seen these comments from Gerrard about Watkins:

He explained: “You are not going to keep every person happy every single game. It’s normal for people to criticise, point fingers, to be fickle. If you’re a player and you go looking for that I’m sure you’ll find it. For me it’s important the players remain focused, they believe in what we’re doing and they focus on their individual performances.
“I don’t think you gain anything, and you’re not going to improve yourself or your performance if you go looking for outside noise.
“It’s out there. It’s out there for me, it’s out there for all the players and if you want to find it, you can find it. My advice to the players is to ignore what’s being said on the outside and focus on what you have to do on the inside.
“I’m not saying stop social media. But if you’re on social media and you’re looking for negative comments and you don’t feel good about them then you’ve probably got yourself to blame

FFS. Gerrard out!

IS SG responding to something?

[Beard82]

Just seen these comments from Gerrard about Watkins:

He explained: “You are not going to keep every person happy every single game. It’s normal for people to criticise, point fingers, to be fickle. If you’re a player and you go looking for that I’m sure you’ll find it. For me it’s important the players remain focused, they believe in what we’re doing and they focus on their individual performances.
“I don’t think you gain anything, and you’re not going to improve yourself or your performance if you go looking for outside noise.
“It’s out there. It’s out there for me, it’s out there for all the players and if you want to find it, you can find it. My advice to the players is to ignore what’s being said on the outside and focus on what you have to do on the inside.
“I’m not saying stop social media. But if you’re on social media and you’re looking for negative comments and you don’t feel good about them then you’ve probably got yourself to blame

FFS. Gerrard out!

IS SG responding to something?

He was asked about the H&V forum