Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Off Topic => Sports Arena => Topic started by: VillaZogmariner on March 28, 2011, 11:39:50 AM
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With the fall out from the World Cup I thought it better to start a new thread about what is going to happen/happening with the England team this year, save it from getting lost in the World Cup thread.
Vaughan this morning saying that Broad should replace Strauss as captain of the ODI side if, as expected, Strauss retires from the One Day game.
I'm not sure Broad is ready for it just yet, but at same time there is no stand out candidate for the job.
Either way I think we'll see some major changes to the One Day set up, and not just on the playing side. First thing they need to do is start looking at the schedules. You could see that the majority of the England side were absolutely knackered after the tour of Australia.
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I'd give the captaincy to someone like Morgan.
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I'd give it to Alistair Cook who will almost certainly be back in the ODI side if Strauss retires.
As for schedules, they are at the ECB will bend over for the sponsors so it will be just as bad next time, have no doubts.
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On paper, our bowling stock is probably the best it's been in years. A group of 6-7 bowlers that can be rotated to bowl in all Test Match conditions.
The middle order is a concern though. Pietersen hasn't grown into the player I thought he would have by now, his Test career is stalling and with Collingwood retired there's a new spot to be filled - that doesn't always happen by the first cab of the rank, in this case Morgan. So there's a case for some instability there.
India is going to be a real Test this Summer, just what we need too after Australia, a big fish to focus on and after then the Saffas visit the following Summer - beat the lot.
Ponting about to announce his retirement is the word over here, tomorrow or Wednesday.
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Surely Cook has to be given the ODI captaincy to see how he really performs under pressure, before he is offered the test job!
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Cook had the most wonderful time in Australia,he was superb. But let's just give him some time before we start elevating him to Test captaincy. Straussy will skipper England through to the end of next Summer as least.
Broad will have had to have matured an awful lot as a Cricketer over the last 12 months to get the ODI job so if I had to pick anyone i'd give it to either Trott or Bell, mainstays of the side through to the next WC. And both play for the Bears which is an added bonus.
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I imagine Cook will get the ODI captaincy as a straight replacement for Strauss, although that does bring about the possibility of England having three captains if Cook is still not in favour for twenty20s.
I also think we've seen the end of the ODI careers of Collingwood and Strauss and probably Pietersen, so there's going to be a big gap in terms of experience to replace but they may as well begin planning for the next World Cup even if we lose a couple of series in the short-term.
On the Ponting issue, there's talk of a potential county contract for him if he retires from internationals. I'm not sure the Bears have much cash, but if we did, that would be an awesome signing to replace Younis Khan. Unlikely though
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I would imagine Cook is the most sensible choice and noone else leaps out.
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I really like Cook, but I'm not sure he is what we need in the One Day team - he likes to build his innings too much and there isn't enough time for another player like that (Trott being the other).
I think the plan now should be to start looking towards the 2015 World Cup, so even if Strauss, Collingwood and Pieterson don't retire I'd be looking to phase them out. Whatever way we go about it though there are a few areas we need to be concentrating on sorting out, them being -
Captaincy (Swann maybe?)
The opening partnership (Personally I'd go with Bell and Bopara)
Wicket-keeper (as good as Prior has been, I don't think he is good enough at One Day level - Kieswetter would be my choice).
Back up spinner (Tredwell or Rashid)
Middle order/part time bowler x 2 (Bopara could drop down, also got Morgan - but think we need another).
Seam attack - we are quite fortunate in this area with Anderson, Bresnan, Tremlett, Broad all with good cases to be in the side. With Finn and Woakes looking good for the future.
On the Ponting issue - as much as we give him stick I think the International game will be a poorer place without him.
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I'm not convinced about the call for wholesale changes. It seems every time we struggle in a one day tournament then wholesale changes follow. It's not worked before, why should it work now?
Cook cannot captain the ODI team, he's not even in the squad. If Strauss wants to continue then he should continue as captain. Split test and ODI captains have not worked for us.
One of the issues is that our test players with their central contracts do not play enough one day cricket at county level. What opportunities do they get to develop reasonable one day techniques? The kind of technique that provides the variety that we lack?
We got to the quarter finals of the 50 over world cup - as did South Africa, Australia and the West Indies. Three of the four semi finalists are from the sub continent; our one day record in India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka is not good.
If Strauss stands down then I'd like to see Ian Bell given a chance. I was very impressed with his captaincy when he captained the Bears to the CB 40 trophy last season. He clearly thinks deeply about the game and he completely outfoxed Trescothick and a very talented Somerset side.
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In my opinion we need to build the team around Woakes, Morgan, Keiswetter, Rashid with the amount of cricket the authorities expect the players to play I would even think about having a seperate 50 over and 20/20 team and them let
Strauss, Trott, Anderson play in the test team........I would only think about 2/3 players playing in both ie Swann, Broad and KP
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Kieswetter should be invested in, I think he can be very good. They seem to have discarded him too quickly. There is a lot of talent there.
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I know it's not England but Ponting has today stepped down from both the Australian Test and ODI Captaincy. Clarke likely to take over.
Interestingly he's not retired from Cricket and still wishes to be considered as a player - virtually unheard of for this to happen (last time a Captain stepped down yet played on in the team was Ian Chappel 35 years ago - and that was for his Brother).
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I know it's not England but Ponting has today stepped down from both the Australian Test and ODI Captaincy. Clarke likely to take over.
Interestingly he's not retired from Cricket and still wishes to be considered as a player - virtually unheard of for this to happen (last time a Captain stepped down yet played on in the team was Ian Chappel 35 years ago - and that was for his Brother).
I think he was a fantastic captain and if he does not get selected again the game will be all the poorer for it.
His one weakness seemed to be the inability to cope with the mindgames of an unflappable England captain. Think Strauss and Vaughan. He could run rings around a tub thumping chest out English captain a la Flintoff because he could always prompt a reaction. It's no coincidence that our best Ashes captains were cool customers, add Brearley to Strauss and Vaughan.
I don't think he was universally liked in his own dressing room. The number of recently retired ex-team mates who were lining up to have a pop was shocking. How can you blame Ponting for the retirement of five world class players in a relatively short period of time? Warne, McGrath, Gilchrist, Langer and Hayden were a class apart.
Anyway back on topic. I love my cricket and I'm looking forward to seeing England - India at Edgbaston this August.
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I don't go with this change the skipper we've had a shit world cup lark. The itinery is to blame for this, it was crazy to play a 5 test series, 2 twenty20's & 7 one dayers in oz before going to the world cup. The players were knackered & there performances were inconsistent & eventually went down as a result. Strauss actually had an excellent tournament with the bat, why should he retire?, we have the makings of a decent one day side, the trouble is in the sub continent you need to have a certain type of cricketer, the type which us, west indies, australia & South Africa don't have in abundance. We should probably look towards New Zealand when in the sub-continent as there resourcefulness has got them far.
In short, blame the itinery, stick with Strauss & the current squad & wait till the end of our summer to review anything.
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I agree Warren, Strauss is a fantastic skipper and hasn't had that bad a tournament. However, we need to be looking at building a side for the World Cup in 2015, by which time Strauss will have more than likely retired from cricket (at International level almost certainly). As such the time is approaching where we need to be looking to replacing him.
What I would like to see happen is that he sticks around until the end of the Summer, and spends that time "handing over" as it were to someone like Bell or Swann as captain. Maybe even giving up the captaincy to the ODI team, but still playing, therefore being there to give advice to the new captain on the field if they want it.
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Bell for captain & hopefully Davies will be the wicketkeeper....be good to get anothr englishman into the side and hopefully his coming out will see him kick on as a player
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Malinga The Slinga has retired from test cricket. How Sri Lanka will cope with the loss of him and Murali remains to be seen. I think we could well comfortably beat them in the forthcoming home test series.
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Malinga The Slinga has retired from test cricket. How Sri Lanka will cope with the loss of him and Murali remains to be seen. I think we could well comfortably beat them in the forthcoming home test series.
If we don't they need shooting
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Alastair Cook Set To Be Unveiled As England One Day Captain
Alastair Cook is in line to be unveiled as England's new 50-overs captain at a press conference at Lord's on Thursday morning, amid reports that Andrew Strauss has decided that the recent World Cup marked the natural moment to hand over the reins in the shorter form of the game.
Cook was not selected for England's World Cup squad despite an immense haul of 766 runs in their historic Ashes victory in Australia. However, he has long been regarded as Strauss's likeliest successor in both forms of the game, and impressed in the role in Bangladesh 14 months ago, when he stood in for Strauss during his pre-Ashes break from touring.
On that trip, Cook made scores of 64, 60 and 32 in a 3-0 victory in the ODIs, before anchoring England's twin Test wins with a pair of centuries at Chittagong and Dhaka. Despite the relative paucity of the opposition, the challenge he faced in unfamiliar conditions was immense, not to mention the ignominy he would have faced had he failed to complete a clean sweep of five international wins out of five.
Despite some doubts about the speed and power of Cook's strokeplay, Strauss's departure from the limited-overs scene creates a vacancy for an opener who can be relied upon to bat through an innings, and besides, with a powerful cut and an aggressive slog-sweep, Cook himself will believe he has the ability to build on an ODI record of 858 runs at 33.00, with one century against India in 2007.
Speculation has been rife about Cook's possible elevation, ever since England's ten-wicket defeat against Sri Lanka in Colombo in March. "Since the World Cup people have been asking me this question," Cook said last month. "At the moment Andrew Strauss is England captain. I don't crave seeing him giving it up. I would love the opportunity to be captain if it comes off but if it doesn't come up then so be it."
"There is never an ideal time to take over," he added. "I know that. But I like challenging myself and if the opportunity arises in the near future I would like to try it, but if selection goes the other way and they choose another captain if Straussy retires then so be it."
Strauss, meanwhile, appears to have decided that, at the age of 34 and with four years to go until the 2015 World Cup, the time is right to follow the example of many leading cricketers of recent times, and retire from ODIs to concentrate on Tests. A tough home summer against Sri Lanka and India is looming, but the long-term goal is a repeat of his home and away Ashes wins, with the next series coming back-to-back in 2013-14.
The news comes in the same week that Andy Flower confirmed he would be staying on as England coach, with the express aim of becoming the No. 1 side in world cricket. It is understood that he has received a significant pay rise along with assurances that he will receive a greater say in team planning, after voicing his criticism of England's Ashes and World Cup itinerary.
Assuming Cook's elevation is rubber-stamped at Lord's on Thursday, England will almost certainly be looking at three different captains in each form of the game, with Paul Collingwood's role as Twenty20 captain also under scrutiny following his dramatic loss of form during the winter. Cook, like Strauss, is not considered to be part of England's 20-over plans.
Cric Info (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/current/story/513742.html)
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I'm not thrilled by this appointment at all. Cook was not even in the one day squads for the ODI's in Oz nor the world cup.
I really respect him as a test opener and Ashes hero but as a one day batsman to trailblaze and set the tempo for the innings no thanks. Our top order now looks so staid and predicatble (KP & Morgan aside): Cook, Bell and Trott are all accumulaters. We need openers who set the pace and enable the accumulaters/finishers to captialise.
That said he'll get my support; I just feel that this is a safe appointment by the ECB when a courageous appointment was needed to see us through to the 2015 world cup.
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I'm fine with Cook playing, he can play quickly but we also need the potential to bat through an innings. Broad as 20/20 captain is a good choice as well.
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Alastair Cook Set To Be Unveiled As England One Day Captain
Alastair Cook is in line to be unveiled as England's new 50-overs captain at a press conference at Lord's on Thursday morning, amid reports that Andrew Strauss has decided that the recent World Cup marked the natural moment to hand over the reins in the shorter form of the game.
Cook was not selected for England's World Cup squad despite an immense haul of 766 runs in their historic Ashes victory in Australia. However, he has long been regarded as Strauss's likeliest successor in both forms of the game, and impressed in the role in Bangladesh 14 months ago, when he stood in for Strauss during his pre-Ashes break from touring.
On that trip, Cook made scores of 64, 60 and 32 in a 3-0 victory in the ODIs, before anchoring England's twin Test wins with a pair of centuries at Chittagong and Dhaka. Despite the relative paucity of the opposition, the challenge he faced in unfamiliar conditions was immense, not to mention the ignominy he would have faced had he failed to complete a clean sweep of five international wins out of five.
Despite some doubts about the speed and power of Cook's strokeplay, Strauss's departure from the limited-overs scene creates a vacancy for an opener who can be relied upon to bat through an innings, and besides, with a powerful cut and an aggressive slog-sweep, Cook himself will believe he has the ability to build on an ODI record of 858 runs at 33.00, with one century against India in 2007.
Speculation has been rife about Cook's possible elevation, ever since England's ten-wicket defeat against Sri Lanka in Colombo in March. "Since the World Cup people have been asking me this question," Cook said last month. "At the moment Andrew Strauss is England captain. I don't crave seeing him giving it up. I would love the opportunity to be captain if it comes off but if it doesn't come up then so be it."
"There is never an ideal time to take over," he added. "I know that. But I like challenging myself and if the opportunity arises in the near future I would like to try it, but if selection goes the other way and they choose another captain if Straussy retires then so be it."
Strauss, meanwhile, appears to have decided that, at the age of 34 and with four years to go until the 2015 World Cup, the time is right to follow the example of many leading cricketers of recent times, and retire from ODIs to concentrate on Tests. A tough home summer against Sri Lanka and India is looming, but the long-term goal is a repeat of his home and away Ashes wins, with the next series coming back-to-back in 2013-14.
The news comes in the same week that Andy Flower confirmed he would be staying on as England coach, with the express aim of becoming the No. 1 side in world cricket. It is understood that he has received a significant pay rise along with assurances that he will receive a greater say in team planning, after voicing his criticism of England's Ashes and World Cup itinerary.
Assuming Cook's elevation is rubber-stamped at Lord's on Thursday, England will almost certainly be looking at three different captains in each form of the game, with Paul Collingwood's role as Twenty20 captain also under scrutiny following his dramatic loss of form during the winter. Cook, like Strauss, is not considered to be part of England's 20-over plans.
Cric Info (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/current/story/513742.html)
Interesting choice, I just hope the schedule their tours properly and learn from this years mess!
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Strong looking Lions side:
James Hildreth (capt), Jimmy Adams, Jonny Bairstow, Danny Briggs, Ravi Bopara, Jade Dernbach, Steven Finn, Eoin Morgan, Graham Onions, Samit Patel, Ajmal Shahzad, James Taylor
Good to see Onions back; we seem to have lots of fast bowlers but I'm really not sure which two to use with Swann & Broad. There's also Finn, Tremlett, Woakes (when fit), Anderson, Bresnan, Dernbach, etc
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Anderson, Broad, Swann & Bresnan would be my first choice attack.
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Anderson, Broad, Swann & Bresnan would be my first choice attack.
That's probably about the same for me, although I might consider Tremlett or Onions as an option.
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Cook as an ODI player will give us greater stability at the top of the order than choosing AN other. He plays shots all around the wicket and is a strong back ffot player which is ideal when the fielding restrictions are in force.
He also benefits from a lack of other obvious candidates.
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Strauss
Cook
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Prior
Woakes
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Tremlett
That would be my team for the 1st test v Sri Lanka. There should be plenty of runs in that top 6, then Woakes, Broad and Swann are all capable of sizeable contributions. I think Woakes has the potential to be a quality test all rounder and a depleted Sri Lanka side is a good opportunity to get him in.
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I think that it's too soon for Woakes, he needs time to develop in county cricket before being exposed at test level. Ease him into the international set up in the same way that Broad was introduced: T20 and ODI's first and then back to his county to develop his game and mature as a player.
He's unlikley to be fit for the first test anyway as he's out for 3 weeks with shin splints.
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I think that it's too soon for Woakes, he needs time to develop in county cricket before being exposed at test level. Ease him into the international set up in the same way that Broad was introduced: T20 and ODI's first and then back to his county to develop his game and mature as a player.
He's unlikley to be fit for the first test anyway as he's out for 3 weeks with shin splints.
aah, didn't realise he was out for that long.
I think he is a decent way along in his development already though. He's played a few over 50 first class games, has already toured with England and looked impressive in Australia.
I think he's ahead of where Broad was at a similar stage. His batting is better and he has a better temperament than Broad did. Woakes also seems to relish the big match stage. His coolness under pressure in the 1st 20/20 in Aus belied his tender years.
I suppose it all comes down to what balance Strauss and Flower want in the team. 4 bowlers or 5. 4 worked pretty damn well in Australia so I think Morgan will come in at No 6 for the 1st test.
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I think that it's too soon for Woakes, he needs time to develop in county cricket before being exposed at test level. Ease him into the international set up in the same way that Broad was introduced: T20 and ODI's first and then back to his county to develop his game and mature as a player.
He's unlikley to be fit for the first test anyway as he's out for 3 weeks with shin splints.
aah, didn't realise he was out for that long.
I think he is a decent way along in his development already though. He's played a few over 50 first class games, has already toured with England and looked impressive in Australia.
I think he's ahead of where Broad was at a similar stage. His batting is better and he has a better temperament than Broad did. Woakes also seems to relish the big match stage. His coolness under pressure in the 1st 20/20 in Aus belied his tender years.
I suppose it all comes down to what balance Strauss and Flower want in the team. 4 bowlers or 5. 4 worked pretty damn well in Australia so I think Morgan will come in at No 6 for the 1st test.
The balance is key and at times we will struggle without a 5th bowler, particularly if one of the "unit of 4" gets injured during the game.
Morgan has to come in but we do need to find a few overs from one of the batsmen to fill the void left by Colly's retirement. He was generally good for 10 overs.
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I think that it's too soon for Woakes, he needs time to develop in county cricket before being exposed at test level. Ease him into the international set up in the same way that Broad was introduced: T20 and ODI's first and then back to his county to develop his game and mature as a player.
He's unlikley to be fit for the first test anyway as he's out for 3 weeks with shin splints.
aah, didn't realise he was out for that long.
I think he is a decent way along in his development already though. He's played a few over 50 first class games, has already toured with England and looked impressive in Australia.
I think he's ahead of where Broad was at a similar stage. His batting is better and he has a better temperament than Broad did. Woakes also seems to relish the big match stage. His coolness under pressure in the 1st 20/20 in Aus belied his tender years.
I suppose it all comes down to what balance Strauss and Flower want in the team. 4 bowlers or 5. 4 worked pretty damn well in Australia so I think Morgan will come in at No 6 for the 1st test.
The balance is key and at times we will struggle without a 5th bowler, particularly if one of the "unit of 4" gets injured during the game.
Morgan has to come in but we do need to find a few overs from one of the batsmen to fill the void left by Colly's retirement. He was generally good for 10 overs.
We could get 10 or so overs out of Trotty and Bell used to bowl and if it was turning KP
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First day of the English International summer and it's cold!
Looking forward to getting my TMS fix during the rain.
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Well you can tell the International Summer has arrived.
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No disrespect to Cardiff, but we shouldn't be playing Test matches there, simply because the pitch does not suit us at all.
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Sangakkara wasn't out then. There was a noise, but hotspot showed nothing and it looked as though he didn't touch it. But the review said yes. Very odd. 114 for 2.
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I think it did show something, just very faintly.
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I know it's a Thursday and it's been wet - but that is a fucking shocking turn out from the crowd.
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Right, Firstly the cricket itself: Sri Lanka possibly just edged it, although the loss of Sangakarra a big blow. I thought England bowled decently in spells, but not with the relentless consistency shown in Australia.
Secondly, a couple of things that are grating at me:
1: Why do we produce a slow, low pitch when that is exactly what the Sri Lankan Batsmen put on their christmas lists?
2: Why on earth do we play at Cardiff? Its statistically one of the wettest parts of Britain. The ground is small by test standards and still only half full.
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The sidescreen was also embarrassing, a big white sheet across a load of seats.
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The sidescreen was also embarrassing, a big white sheet across a load of seats.
Yeah that was pretty pathetic.
Another gripe i have is why does there have to be 30 minutes between toss and start of play? Surely 10 minutes is ample time for the opening batsmen to put their pads on.
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We're experiencing one of the disadvantages of central contracts. The bowling attack looks woefully undercooked. Jimmy is a rhythm player and his radar was askew. Broad is feeling his way back from injury and even Swanny looked out of sorts. Tremlett bowled well and beat the bat a few times but his height advantage is negated by a slow, low pitch.
None of this is a huge surprise and I hope that the attack clicks into place tomorrow.
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The sidescreen was also embarrassing, a big white sheet across a load of seats.
Yeah that was pretty pathetic.
Another gripe i have is why does there have to be 30 minutes between toss and start of play? Surely 10 minutes is ample time for the opening batsmen to put their pads on.
I think that they were still drying the outfield hence the delay and it pissed down immediately after the toss anyway.
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I don't think Cardiff is a Test ground at all, it doesn't suit us and the crowd was terrible.
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I don't think Cardiff is a Test ground at all, it doesn't suit us and the crowd was terrible.
The weather played a part; 9,000 tickets sold and only 6,000 turned up.
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Nice early wicket from Jimmy there.
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Fantastic bowling by Jimmy this morning and an early wicket for him, Jayawardene gone.
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Seem to be getting plenty of swing this morning - I fancy us to skittle them out not long after lunch.
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A couple of perfect illustrations as to why the review system creates more problems than it solves.
This whole "Umpires Call" aspect seems a bit pointless to me. Why have the technology and only half trust it.
It also seems that Umpires are airing on the side of extreme caution with LBW decisions. I can't believe the Anderson one wasn't initially given out.
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I agree with the Reviews system but they need to add Snick-O-Meter.
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I think the review system is good in theory.
However if a batsman is given not out, then its reviewed and it shows the ball smashing the bails full on, it should then be given out IMO.
Anyway, the cricket itself has been pretty ordinary from an England point of view. Anderson was bowling very nicely and probably would have taken another wicket or two with the new ball if not for injury.
Broad has been woeful. He has a lot of talent but puts in far too many of these types of performances. As the commentators said earlier it does appear he is an automatic selection. He needs to start producing.
Tremlett's looked okay at times, not so much at others.
Strauss's captaincy has been fantastic so far, but I can't see the logic of bowling Trott before the new ball. It just gifted 40 runs to Sri Lanka.
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I think the review system is good in theory.
However if a batsman is given not out, then its reviewed and it shows the ball smashing the bails full on, it should then be given out IMO.
That would take a complete change of the LBW rules regarding pitching and hitting outside the line.
Maybe it is time to take a look at this if they really do have full confidence in Hawkeye, but then you would have to have a completely different set of laws for games where the referal system isn't used.
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I think the review system is good in theory.
However if a batsman is given not out, then its reviewed and it shows the ball smashing the bails full on, it should then be given out IMO.
That would take a complete change of the LBW rules regarding pitching and hitting outside the line.
Maybe it is time to take a look at this if they really do have full confidence in Hawkeye, but then you would have to have a completely different set of laws for games where the referal system isn't used.
My preference would be to just get rid of the review system. I think the quality of umpiring at the test level is of a generally very high standard anyway. I'm also a bit worried that a lot of umpires could become "not outers", knowing the way the system works.
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I agree with the Reviews system but they need to add Snick-O-Meter.
According to Bumble during yesterdays coverage, it takes too long to put the Snicko sound file together. I was watching it live and it was over 5 minutes from when Sangakkara was given out and left the field of play to when Sky showed the Snicko graphic. This would give us an unacceptably long break in play whilst the decision was reviewed.
I don't know why it takes so long to compile the sound file, it seems odd to me but it's the excuse that the good burghers of the ICC are hiding behind.
I think that the review systems are a good idea but think that sides have not yet quite cracked the best way to use them. We wasted two reviews today off Broad which would have proved useful later on in the innings when Swann was bowling. Broad seems convinced that every LBW shout off his bowling is out. He looks mortified when the umpire says not out. Looks to me like Broad needs to learn the LBW rule.
The waters are further muddied by the point that some of the hosting broadcasters do not have Sky's financial resources and cannot afford to provide Hawkeye and Snicko. Time to cough up ICC!
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The problem with a fast bowler like Broad is that by the time the ball hits the pads he has ran well off the pitch and is no longer in line, it might look plumb to him but he's at all the wrong angle to really tell.
It would be better for him to leave it up to the captain and especially Prior behind the stumps.
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Well an ordinary day turns into a pretty poor one after Strauss getting out. Shouldn't lose this match though. No way should we be bowled out twice by a weak attack.
At least Anderson isn't injured. Absolutely no way that England would risk their best bowler further injuring himself by sending him out as Nightwatchman. That would be unfathomably stupid.
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Not a good day, but we tend to struggle in Cardiff. We need to fight back tomorrow.
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They need to look @ a few things.........the bowlers havnt played enough cricket so far and to go in with just 4 is asking for trouble, we wont challenge India with just 4 bowlers and Broad/Tremlett offer no variety
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Well we're down to 3 bowlers now then for the rest of this match - Anderson has a Grade 1 Side Strain so no more bowling for him.
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More long hops from Trotty then.
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Well this isn't quite the start to the season we were looking for.
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Highlights of the Ashes... Don't mind if I do!
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Good 50 from Cooky.
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This is a pretty poor test match, can't see a result. The pitch is poor and the ground is poor.
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This is a pretty poor test match, can't see a result. The pitch is poor and the ground is poor.
Yep, think you are right there.
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This is a pretty poor test match, can't see a result. The pitch is poor and the ground is poor.
Yep, think you are right there.
I just think Cardiff is a really underwhelming venue.
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Cardiff should not be given test matches.
Its as simple as that.
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Cardiff should not be given test matches.
Its as simple as that.
Agreed
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Well played Cook, remarkable having 17 centuries at 26.
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Cook must be a shoe in to finish his career as Englands highest ever run scorer.
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Shame Anderson can't bowl second time around. We'd have a real chance of winning this match.
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Played Trotty!
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They've up the run rate quite a lot, if the weather holds you never know.
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Cook must be a shoe in to finish his career as Englands highest ever run scorer.
Well he'll have to score more than 10,000 as KP reckons he's going to.
No, me neither.
Both Cook & Trott looking very comfortable, starting to up the runrate.
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The pitch is just starting to take spin, on the last day Swann could rip through them with back up from Pietersen, it's a long shot but we have a chance.
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The pitch is just starting to take spin, on the last day Swann could rip through them with back up from Pietersen, it's a long shot but we have a chance.
Agreed the last half hour/45 mins has given us a chance. A good run rate for the next 2 sessions and we are in with a good shout.
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I repeat having a test in Cardiff is ridiculous, it always rains.
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The pitch is just starting to take spin, on the last day Swann could rip through them with back up from Pietersen, it's a long shot but we have a chance.
Agreed the last half hour/45 mins has given us a chance. A good run rate for the next 2 sessions and we are in with a good shout.
A very slim chance given the weather forecast and Anderson's injury.
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I repeat having a test in Cardiff is ridiculous, it always rains.
Having a test starting in May is ridiculous, having it Cardiff just compounds the folly.
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I repeat having a test in Cardiff is ridiculous, it always rains.
Agreed too early and also they shouldn't go back to Cardiff again. It just doesn't offer anything.
Having a test starting in May is ridiculous, having it Cardiff just compounds the folly.
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Ah rain again.
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Kumar Sangakarra - 'Why are we playing here?' Good question Kumar, good question.
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Oh dear KP.
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200 up for Trotty, with Bell on 91
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Trott out for 203.
Let's see if England open the bat up a bit now (once Bell reaches his ton) and puts a bit of a lead on.
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Well done Trotty
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They should never ever go back to Cardiff again. More players on the pitch than spectators in the stand, absolute shambles. Terrible ground.
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Good 100 Bell and declared.
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This is mental.
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Sri Lanka............43 for 7, we are all over them
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Wowser! We could sneak a win here!
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Wowser! We could sneak a win here!
Mini-fightback though from SL, 28 for the 9th wicket so far, looks as if they could at least make us bat again.
Wouldn't have expected this this morning though, it looked like a nailed-on draw
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Game over...................
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Wowser! We could sneak a win here!
Mini-fightback though from SL, 28 for the 9th wicket so far, looks as if they could at least make us bat again.
Wouldn't have expected this this morning though, it looked like a nailed-on draw
Well I got us the 9th wicket there, I now feel SL should bat out comfortably for the draw
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Insane victory.
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Sorted
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What a session for england, SL completely folded under some very aggressive bowling and fielding
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Cracking performance from a 3 man bowling attack.
Not many teams score 400 in the 1st innings of a test and go on to loose by an innings.
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They should never ever go back to Cardiff again. More players on the pitch than spectators in the stand, absolute shambles. Terrible ground.
Much like Edgbaston last year against Pakistan where it felt like a County Championship game. 7 home test matches is nuts full stop. Nowhere in this country had 5 days of decent weather. A May test match is too early, it's too cold to attract casual supporters. Cardiff has now hosted two test matches, and had two classic final days. I think that they can be fairly happy with that.
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Well done England, great bit of bowling
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They should never ever go back to Cardiff again. More players on the pitch than spectators in the stand, absolute shambles. Terrible ground.
Much like Edgbaston last year against Pakistan where it felt like a County Championship game. 7 home test matches is nuts full stop. Nowhere in this country had 5 days of decent weather. A May test match is too early, it's too cold to attract casual supporters. Cardiff has now hosted two test matches, and had two classic final days. I think that they can be fairly happy with that.
I think an end of May test is fine. The weather the 2 weeks leading up to the test was very good, just bad luck the weather turned so bad.
Cardiff on the other hand no. The crowds were abysmal at best for the first 3 days. The ashes aside, test cricket is never going to sell in Wales. The ground is too small even if full. There are surely bigger grounds where Test cricket is much more of a pull where this game could have been played. (Old trafford, Headingly, Chester le Street etc).
I agree that there has been 2 classic final days at Cardiff. Just a shame that one man and his dog was there to witness Englands excellent bowling performance yesterday.
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KP is not doing too well at the moment, he must be getting dangerously close to being dropped.
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OK then, what and where do we think the tattoo is that Tuffers won't talk about ?
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KP is not doing too well at the moment, he must be getting dangerously close to being dropped.
I think he'll be in the team to at least the end of the summer. One of the great strengths about the England set up is the consistency of selection. I'd also back KP to come through with at least one match winning / setting up innings against India.(Such as his double century at Adelaide, which was scored at a great pace, giving us plenty of time to bowl Australia out second time around).
If by the end of summer his form has not returned, then possibly look elsewhere to at least put the frighteners up him.
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Lords in HD really is glorious.
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Bit of a soft shot that from Bell. He was looking good too.
Need Cook to go on and make a big one now.
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Really interesting first day so far. A much improved Sri Lankan bowling display so far, on a pitch thats good, but offers a little for consistent bowling.
Poor start from England, KP's shot pretty ordinary. Cook and Bell played well, Bell played a bit of a soft shot to get out. Cook looks very solid as usual, waiting for the bowlers to make a mistake and bowl to his strengths. He then punishes them brutally.
Morgan's looked good since coming in. Took the game to the spinner really well. A session of Morgan and Cook and we'll be well on top.
Still got to question Sri Lanka's ability to bowl England out twice though, even with the improvement in bowling. Conversely, England's seam bowlers should enjoy a pitch that seems to have a bit of pace about it.
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KP is not doing too well at the moment, he must be getting dangerously close to being dropped.
I think he'll be in the team to at least the end of the summer. One of the great strengths about the England set up is the consistency of selection. I'd also back KP to come through with at least one match winning / setting up innings against India.(Such as his double century at Adelaide, which was scored at a great pace, giving us plenty of time to bowl Australia out second time around).
If by the end of summer his form has not returned, then possibly look elsewhere to at least put the frighteners up him.
I can't agree with that logic. KP should come good.
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Cook just given it away on 96. Still, unbelievable run of form he has been in.
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KP is not doing too well at the moment, he must be getting dangerously close to being dropped.
I think he'll be in the team to at least the end of the summer. One of the great strengths about the England set up is the consistency of selection. I'd also back KP to come through with at least one match winning / setting up innings against India.(Such as his double century at Adelaide, which was scored at a great pace, giving us plenty of time to bowl Australia out second time around).
If by the end of summer his form has not returned, then possibly look elsewhere to at least put the frighteners up him.
I can't agree with that logic. KP should come good.
Thats what I said wasn't it?
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Come on Morgan get that tonne!
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Come on Morgan get that tonne!
D'oh.
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Morgan gone LBW for 79, on referral.
Botham, showing his usual keen judgment, said as Sri Lanka called for the referral, "They've just wasted one there." It was plumb.
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Nothing quite like a Lord's test in the evening sunshine. Especially when Broad just creams a drive through the off side.
And then an even better one from Matt Prior, who is batting really well.
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After losing 3 wickets in the first 8 overs 342 for 6 is a really good comeback from England.
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Amazing stat that before today Broad had only faced 1 ball in 10 months of Test cricket (the hat trick ball in Brisbane).
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Amazing stat that before today Broad had only faced 1 ball in 10 months of Test cricket (the hat trick ball in Brisbane).
It's a weird one isn't it? Although I think that span only covers 5 matches (including this one), 3 of which he missed through injury. It's testament to how dominant the top order have been that he's not been needed. I thought he looked good with the bat this evening though, considering how long a gap that is.
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Our middle order have done really well.
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They have although rode their luck at times. The ball was moving about a bit and there was some good bounce there too so Broad, Tremlett and Finn are going to cause problems I think.
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We do have a tendency to consistently bowl too short.
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An all-round poor performance with the ball from England so far, however Finn and Swann have bowled well since the delayed resumption today. Swann and Strauss took a couple of blinding slip catches. 479 all out which is a lead of 7.
We've missed Jimmy in this match and hopefully they won't bowl as badly as a unit for the rest of the summer.
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I'm a big Pietersen fan, but how many times in the last 1-2 years has a commentator used the phrase "he's short of runs", I'm thinking that this summer should be do or die for him because at the moment it's all about what he could do for England rather than what he is doing. He is 30ish so potential is a thing of the past. Time for him to perform consistently again I think.
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If he hasn't got his eye back in by the time India comes to town, and if Bresnan is fit again, I'd drop him and tell him to go and get some form on the county circuit if he wants to play for England again. I'd then look to line up as - Strauss, Cook, Trott, Bell, Morgan, Prior, Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Anderson, Tremlett. For me that gives us an extra bowler to share the load, but at the same time is capable of holding his bat.
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KP is looking a lot more assured.
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We need to up the tempo here.
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KP bowled, great delivery.
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Cook really needs to up his rate.
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Bell should have been given run out, but he's really trying to motor.
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Century for Cook, well done.
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Morgan out for 4, sacrificed trying to get quick runs.
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Just wasting wickets here, we should have declared.
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The one issue with Strauss is that he is over defensive.........we should have declared when we were 290 ahead and then put all the fielders around the bat, why have a deep square leg ???
I would send Broad back to Notts and tell him to play some 2nd eleven cricket, he needs to bowl some overs.........
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Bore Draw, oh well let's move on
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Cheeky fuckers! (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/content/current/story/518619.html) Piss off India, the tour is in England, can't believe they are allowed to dictate what rules we play by. We should play Pakistan instead, just to annoy them.
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Sky have got Shane Warne commentating on this test, presumably because of his Hampshire connections.
Gower interviewed him first thing this morning and was so fawning. Made me want to barf! Asking him about his business interests and participation in poker tournaments; he didn't ask the question that was uppermost in my mind.
What's it like to shag Liz Hurley?
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A nice bit of test cricket to take minds of a pretty horrible few days as an Aston Villa fan.
Lovely.
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Probably be no play Friday, torrential rain all day tomorrow.
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Rain rain go away
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Rain rain go away
Hopefully they can get say 2 full days of cricket in the last 3. I'd back England to win this test if that were possible.
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Strauss out cheaply again, he's having a 'mare this series.
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Yeah, like KP he has been found out a bit now with what type of bowler gets him out.
Unlike KP though I think Strauss will work extra extra hard to get over it.
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Meanwhile, KP is looking very good so far, so maybe he's finally taken the hint and worked on his technique.
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This is a very good Test match pitch.
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Brilliant decision to take tea in the sun.
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Brilliant decision to take tea in the sun.
It's a fucking joke that they've taken tea. This decision process needs to be looked at.
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Yep certainly is, I don't blame the crowd for getting very pissed off. The commentators on Sky are equally non-plussed.
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KP looks very very good.
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Shame KP got out for 85, but he looked very very good again.
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Great knock from Pietersen. Not quite back to his best but almost. Just in time for the Indians. Laarvely.
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That knock of 85 was equally as good (technically) as the double century he got at Adelaide. (What a day that was!) All that was missing was the amount of runs.
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I think the last two innings of KP have answered all questions as to whether he should be in the side, class player.
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It was a great knock by KP but he continues to frustrate! There was a big hundred for the taking and it looked to me that he wanted to get to three figures before the close. His mind was as much on the headlines as it was on the interests of the team.
On his day he is a joy to watch but I can't help but think that he hasn't fulfilled his talents. He could and should be up there with Ponting but he continually just falls short.
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No problem with KP getting out like that, the match situation needs us to get runs very quickly and he was trying to do that.
Cook has now scored six successive half-centuries.
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And Bell now has five successive half-centuries and is averaging 212 for this series.
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And Bell now has five successive half-centuries and is averaging 212 for this series.
Ian Bell for me is the most technically gifted player we have in the International set up. He now knows he belongs at this level too, and you can see it in the confidence he has with the bat.
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I think the move down to No.5 has benefitted him, he can use his natural flair.
He is now averaging over 100 for this and the Ashes Tests combined.
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He's so good to watch when in form.
Outscored KP when they were in together yesterday, apparently.
Anyone remember when he was batting at 6 against Pakistan a few years ago? Scored an absolute bucketload. He clearly thrives lower down the order.
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100 for Bell well played.
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Well played Morgan, got out sacrificing himself for the team.
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Prior gone.
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Broad out and declared, earlier than I expected.
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Good, attacking declaration cinsidering the weather forecast. Most unlike Strauss though.
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Well done Belly
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Its been an extremely poor bowling performance so far today. Fair play to Sangakarra though.
England have just seemed to lack any sort of intensity.
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Raining now.
In fairness, we could bowl for a fortnight the way we have today and not get them out.
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So, the squads have been announced.
Twenty20 squad Stuart Broad (capt), Ian Bell, Ravi Bopara, Jade Dernbach, Steven Finn, Craig Kieswetter, Michael Lumb, Eoin Morgan, Samit Patel, Kevin Pietersen, Graeme Swann, Chris Woakes, Luke Wright.
One-day squad Alastair Cook (capt), James Anderson, Ian Bell, Ravi Bopara, Stuart Broad, Jade Dernbach, Steven Finn, Craig Kieswetter, Eoin Morgan, Samit Patel, Kevin Pietersen, Graeme Swann, Jonanathan Trott, Chris Woakes.
Here's what I'd go with:
T20
Michael Lumb
Craig Kieswetter
Kevin Pietersen
Ian Bell
Ravi Bopara
Eoin Morgan
Samit Patel
Stuart Broad (capt)
Graeme Swann
Chris Woakes
Jade Dernbach
ODI
Alastair Cook (capt)
Craig Kieswetter
Jonathan Trott
Kevin Pietersen
Ian Bell
Eoin Morgan
Samit Patel
Stuart Broad
Graeme Swann
Chris Woakes
Jade Dernbach
Fairly settled sides and I'd leave Anderson & Finn to concentrate on Test Cricket. Maybe swap Wright in for Lumb.
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With one or two exceptions it is the squad for the 50 overs matches that failed in the recent World Cup! Why?
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Luke Wright........thats a misprint surely
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I am so annoyed that I hope we lose today, how did Geoff Miller and the selection team come to the conclusion to drop IAN BELL....................Yet Luke Wright and Bopara are in the team
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KP and Morgan have done brilliantly.
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Rubbish from KP and Patel.............
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Someone mentioned the other day that Broad and Bell don't get on, wonder if it's Broad's way of giving Bell the big "Fuck you". (If this is true of course then Broad should be axed).
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Someone mentioned the other day that Broad and Bell don't get on, wonder if it's Broad's way of giving Bell the big "Fuck you". (If this is true of course then Broad should be axed).
If thats true that is outrageous.........
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Shambles at the end and why is Broad smirking, I hope we get hammered, Come on Sri Lanka.................
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KP and Morgan excellent, the rest terrible. We have too many 'jack of no trades' in there, Wright is consistently poor. Samit Patel is too fat for international cricket, you want to play get into fucking shape.
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KP and Morgan excellent, the rest terrible. We have too many 'jack of no trades' in there, Wright is consistently poor. Samit Patel is too fat for international cricket, you want to play get into fucking shape.
Agreed Paul.....We picked 3 specialist batsmen, 1 wicketkeeper and 7 bowlers who "think" they can bat a bit
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Yep classic mistake. Look who scored the runs, proper batsmen.
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Woakes does not look international class at all here.
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Woakes does not look international class at all here.
Agreed but why isnt Finn playing ??? I suspect Broad sees him as a threat to his place in the test team. As you said too many bits and pieces cricketers
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Woakes, in time, will become a very good international cricketer, so as such I'm not overly concerned with his start today.
It's some of the other selections that I cannot understand - Patel, Bopara and Wright immediately spring to mind.
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Samit Patel terribly lazy with the bat, atrocious with the ball and grossly out of shape. He should never player for England again.
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Luke Wright hasn't bowled a ball, therefore that means they've picked him as a batsmen in front of Bell. Oh dear.
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Broad is doing well at not answering the Bell question there.
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Broad is doing well at not answering the Bell question there.
Very well
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Nasser Hussein was saying he wished it was a 3 match series? Why?!
At least Cook & Trott (especially) will come in to the ODI side. Apart from KP & Morgan, that was pretty poor.
Ah well, on to Tuesday...
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So we lost at baseball, not bothered.
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Samit Patel terribly lazy with the bat, atrocious with the ball and grossly out of shape. He should never player for England again.
That's the result of his fitness regime!
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So we lost at baseball, not bothered.
I hardly see the point of playing just one of them. Either play 3/5 or none at all.
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So because India don't want hawkeye it is removed from DRS? ridiculous. All the technology available should be used.
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So because India don't want hawkeye it is removed from DRS? ridiculous. All the technology available should be used.
And in football?
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Yes please. How come they never have to bother hosting Bangladesh either?
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Well done England
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Excellent performance that, the rain break could have fucked it all up but we scored the runs and then immediately put Sri Lanka under pressure.
Anderson was brilliant.
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England tour itinerary in India:
4 October: Arrive in Hyderabad
8 October: 50-over warm-up match, Hyderabad (Gymkhana)
11 October: 50-over warm-up match, Hyderabad (Gymkhana)
14 October: 1st one-day international, Hyderabad (Rajiv Gandhi International Stadium) (d/n)
17 October: 2nd one-day international, Delhi (Feroz Shah Kotla) (d/n)
20 October: 3rd one-day international, Mohali (d/n)
23 October: 4th one-day international, Mumbai (Wankhede Stadium) (d/n)
26 October: 5th one-day international, Kolkata (d/n)
29 October: Twenty20 international, Kolkata (d/n)
England tour of Sri Lanka:
26-30 March: 1st Test, Galle
3-7 April: 2nd Test, Colombo (stadium TBC)
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Forgot to add that in between, during January, there will be Tests/ODIs/T20s against Pakistan in the UAE.
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Are we not playing tests in India?
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Quite a (nice) surprising win yesterday. I wouldn't have picked Jimmy, so shows what I know! A huge win, but KP let us down in the field at least twice out of his 3 run out chances. Ah well, a huge win and at least we can't get whitewashed now.
I'd go with the same side tomorrow. Sad to say for Bopara & Woakes, but meh for Patel & Wright.
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I think you are being a bit harsh on KP there, he got to all three chances very quickly and was shying at one stump, not an easy skill. If he had taken more time to aim the batsman would have been in anyway.
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Some fairly poor fielding from England there and we have 310 to get.
Need a good start.
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Cook will probably get fined too because the innings over ran by about 10 mins.
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Well that was a bit shit!
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England were as bad today as they were good on Monday.
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Far too slow after a good start, it put too much pressure on those coming in.
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I find ODI boring tests are the best.
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This end of Englands innings is extremely painful to watch.
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Not as painful as the beginning. There's just no flexibility in our batting lineup. If Kieswetter gets out, KP or Morgan should come in. If Cook gets out, bring in Trott. We're well off the ground average of 260 for the first innings!
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Not as painful as the beginning. There's just no flexibility in our batting lineup. If Kieswetter gets out, KP or Morgan should come in. If Cook gets out, bring in Trott. We're well off the ground average of 260 for the first innings!
Yeah agreed, Cook and Trott batting together would more times than not, have a negative effect on the run rate.
Wow, a boundary as I speak. Its a veritable run fest.
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At times we seem to be completley clueless in ODI's. It's painful to watch.
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At times we seem to be completley clueless in ODI's. It's painful to watch.
Can't believe it took till the second to last ball for some real aggression. Swann showed up a lot of the line up in that one ball.
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Not good enough, the balance is all wrong, once Cook and Trott get together it inevitably slows down and then we end up chasing the game just as the opposition brings on the spinners (who we have been shite against for years) and/or their best bowler.
Drop Trott, promote Morgan to 3,
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My team would be
Trott
Bell
KP
Morgan (c)
Taylor James
Bopara
Foster
Bresnan
Swann
Anderson
Tremlett
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My team would be
Trott
Bell
KP
Morgan (c)
Taylor James
Bopara
Foster
Bresnan
Swann
Anderson
Tremlett
That would be a little harsh on Cook having just scored a Hundred. Granted it wasn't a quick hundred, but you'd take that innings every time.
Its not Cooks fault the other batsmen failed to bat adequately around him.
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Decent, aggressive batting around Cook was what was missing.
As for the bowling, there is something about Dernbach that makes me feel there is a proper player in there. I don't what it is, I just have a feeling.
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We lack one day "finishers", batsmen who can come in with 10 overs to go and really push the score on. The gaps between boundaries in our innings was pitiful. At one point we hadn't scored a boundary for over 10 overs.
We also need to heed the lessons of Twenty20. Successful 20 over sides have two or three spinners who can take the pace off the ball thus making it difficult to score. For some reason we pack our sides with seamers.
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We're underdogs in this one...
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I think it's generally accepted that teams build their ODI calendars around the World Cups; tinkering with the side to get the best possible squad for the big tournaments. Why then do we piss about with the XIs for each & every match in the finals, but then go unchanged at the very beginning of the next cycle, when nobody will ever remember who won the series? We know what players like Anderson are capable of (first match, great figures, second rubbish, third bad figures, but not reflecting how well he's played). Why pick Woakes, Patel, etc and not play them. Why pick Wright in the squad at all?! How are we preparing for the future with this bland bunch of predictable toot?
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Outplayed,Outclassed. Shows how bad we are when the guy Mathews turns down runs so the other one can reach his century.Time for some changes.For a start Bell should be higher up the order,its a disgrace he has to come in at number 6 . I also think Tremlett and Finn should be in there in place of Anderson and Broad on present performances
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Outplayed,Outclassed. Shows how bad we are when the guy Mathews turns down runs so the other one can reach his century.Time for some changes.For a start Bell should be higher up the order,its a disgrace he has to come in at number 6 . I also think Tremlett and Finn should be in there in place of Anderson and Broad on present performances
You mean in place of Anderson who got man of the match in the first match?
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He was terrible in the second match though. I'd keep Jimmy for Test matches. Why risk burnout for him?
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Kumar Sangakkara delivered the 2011 Cowdrey Lecture at Lord's on Monday evening and it was quite brilliant: a social, political and personal history of Sri Lanka and Sri Lankan cricket. He's particularly good on the impact of their 1996 World Cup win, the tsunami and the terrorist attack on the team bus. It's really interesting and occasionally quite moving. Got a standing ovation apparently.
You can hear it via the Lord's website here: http://mcc.sportslinemedia.co.uk/ Well worth a listen.
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That is the Anderson i mean Villasubmariner, the one with the 2011 one day games bowling record, of 12 matches,15 wickets for a average of 42.46. Dont dispute he is a good bowler when there is low cloud cover and the ball is swinging all over the place but when conditions are fine ie,a nice sunny day, in my opinion and the ex pros i listen to on TMS he just is not good enough
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That is the Anderson i mean Villasubmariner, the one with the 2011 one day games bowling record, of 12 matches,15 wickets for a average of 42.46. Dont dispute he is a good bowler when there is low cloud cover and the ball is swinging all over the place but when conditions are fine ie,a nice sunny day, in my opinion and the ex pros i listen to on TMS he just is not good enough
They're also using different balls in the one day series. Rather than a traditional white Dukes or Readers, they're using a Kookaburra which does not swing as much.
Also the mandatory changing off balls after 35 overs will affect a bowler like Anderson. If you've worked on the ball for 30 + overs and one side is pretty well shined and starts to reverse. You then have to change the ball and start again. It was evident on Sunday. Anderson began to get some reverse swing. The ball was changed and it stopped reversing.
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I will be at Trent Bridge for the next one. Due to work commitments I will be there a bit late, I hope there will be a bit of cricket left for me to watch...
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That is the Anderson i mean Villasubmariner, the one with the 2011 one day games bowling record, of 12 matches,15 wickets for a average of 42.46. Dont dispute he is a good bowler when there is low cloud cover and the ball is swinging all over the place but when conditions are fine ie,a nice sunny day, in my opinion and the ex pros i listen to on TMS he just is not good enough
It was hardly low cloud cover during the ashes. In fact Anderson performed brilliantly in many a nice sunny day during that series.
The ball swings all over the place because Anderson makes it. To get the ball to swing both ways at a good pace is something less than a handful of bowlers can do.
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Sorry Taylorsworkrate, but is'nt the Ashes 5 day games and completely different to the one day game that we are talking about. Correct me if i am wrong but did'nt the aussies thrash us in the one day matches after the Ashes and Anderson struggled then i belive.
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Sorry Taylorsworkrate, but is'nt the Ashes 5 day games and completely different to the one day game that we are talking about. Correct me if i am wrong but did'nt the aussies thrash us in the one day matches after the Ashes and Anderson struggled then i belive.
I was more referring to your comment about Anderson needing conditions in his favor.
Anderson only played in 2 of the 7 one day games, performing not too badly.
Anderson has taken a lot of wickets in One day internationals. His form wasn't good during the world cup, although he bowled beautifully against South Africa in very unhelpful conditions.
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Jimmy has taken 194 wickets in 145 ODI's. His strike rate is 37.1, statistically second to Broad out of the current squad.
Not many England players emerged from the World Cup with any credit. Anderson looked knackered at the end, having been on the road since early November. Our attack is better with him in it.
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I just don't see the value in knackering him out again. We could get quite a few years out of him if we use him properly.
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Did someone mention the Ashes?
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Essex captain James Foster suspended for two games by ECB disciplinary panel after a number of disciplinary issues at the county, who have been fined £5000.
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And they've got Hampshire tomorrow!
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And they've got Hampshire tomorrow!
When Ian Ward read it out on Sky you could hear Dominic Cork trying to hide his glee @ the news..........
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Dominic Cork. A bigger cock you will never meet.
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SL 11 for 3 off 4.1 overs!
Stu: what about Ronnie Irani?
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Superb bowling performance.
Anderson cant bowl in one dayers? My arse.
Cook currently taking the Sri Lankan bowlers apart as well.
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Superb bowling performance.
Anderson cant bowl in one dayers? My arse.
Cook currently taking the Sri Lankan bowlers apart as well.
Dave..........he is our best bowler by a mile in any form of cricket but I would prefer him to be rested for the ODI's/20-20 and saved for the test matches so we can have him fresh and rested
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Great start by the batsmen, 45 - 0 off 6. The weather looks iffy so I hope we can get to the 20th over as D/L may well have a say on the result tonight.
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Superb bowling performance.
Anderson cant bowl in one dayers? My arse.
Cook currently taking the Sri Lankan bowlers apart as well.
Dave..........he is our best bowler by a mile in any form of cricket but I would prefer him to be rested for the ODI's/20-20 and saved for the test matches so we can have him fresh and rested
Then he'd just play county cricket instead. He's not going to have a blinder in every game but he's at the top of his game and if fit should be in the Engand team.
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Superb bowling performance.
Anderson cant bowl in one dayers? My arse.
Cook currently taking the Sri Lankan bowlers apart as well.
Dave..........he is our best bowler by a mile in any form of cricket but I would prefer him to be rested for the ODI's/20-20 and saved for the test matches so we can have him fresh and rested
Then he'd just play county cricket instead. He's not going to have a blinder in every game but he's at the top of his game and if fit should be in the Engand team.
He is a centrally contracted player so England can decided what cricket he plays and when
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Great start by the batsmen, 45 - 0 off 6. The weather looks iffy so I hope we can get to the 20th over as D/L may well have a say on the result tonight.
Definate delaying tactics by Sri Lanka.......hoping for the rain to save them
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Superb bowling performance.
Anderson cant bowl in one dayers? My arse.
Cook currently taking the Sri Lankan bowlers apart as well.
Dave..........he is our best bowler by a mile in any form of cricket but I would prefer him to be rested for the ODI's/20-20 and saved for the test matches so we can have him fresh and rested
But while he's centrally contracted he's not playing that much cricket, he'd be playing far more if he was back at his county this summer. I'd be in favour of him being rested for some of the ODI's during the winter but he's not exactly being overworked at the moment.
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Cook proving a point to a few here.
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Quite a tonking that.
Great response after two sub par performances.
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Broad has been dropped.
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Broad has been dropped.
They playing a second spinner mate? Old Trafford tends to spin a bit.
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Broad has been dropped.
What? Where?
It wouldn't surprise me but I haven't seen it anywhere.
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Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/8626630/England-v-Sri-Lanka-Stuart-Broad-released-as-Alastair-Cook-targets-series-win.html)
Saying it's because of a "bruised heel".
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It ain't on there now Bazz, maybe they got a bit of duff info, or they weren't supposed to release it just yet?
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It ain't on there now Bazz, maybe they got a bit of duff info, or they weren't supposed to release it just yet?
Yeah, that is strange.
It was basically saying that he was being dropped to bring in a second spinner or Bopara for his cutters and the reason being given is a bruised heel. He'd be going back to Notts to play for them to get some form before the test against India in 12 days time.
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It ain't on there now Bazz, maybe they got a bit of duff info, or they weren't supposed to release it just yet?
Yeah, that is strange.
It was basically saying that he was being dropped to bring in a second spinner or Bopara for his cutters and the reason being given is a bruised heel. He'd be going back to Notts to play for them to get some form before the test against India in 12 days time.
And he'd probably play more limited overs cricket than 4 day in that time. I've not checked the fixtures but there are still 2 or 3 T20 to be played then the championship/CB40 will kick in. Potentially one 4 day game to be played. These central contracts have many advantages but there are some drawbacks.
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Broad has been dropped.
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Broad has been dropped.
Patel in. There's hope for me if someone that out of shape can get a game!
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Well, The Torygraph were right then, but obviously England wanted to wait for the news to come out.
Don't mind Patel having a shot, he has worked on his fitness and there is talent there.
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Knowing now that the Telegraph were going to pull the article, I'd have just pretended to be ITK!
Cracking opening 10 overs from England.
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Knowing now that the Telegraph were going to pull the article, I'd have just pretended to be ITK!
Cracking opening 10 overs from England.
Great start by England, good to see England giving Patel a chance
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Why is it whenever we take the batting powerplay we seem to lose quick wickets.
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Why is it whenever we take the batting powerplay we seem to lose quick wickets.
I reckon that we've not yet figured out how to play in them. Whilst I applaud Cook for taking the batting powerplay so early, 14 runs and 3 wickets in a 5 over powerplay is woeful.
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Ball keeping low, Swann will get turn, slow outfield, if we get 260+ Sri Lanka will get nowhere near.
Hopefuly the clouds will come over to aid Jimmy's swing as well.
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We're doing our best to fuck this up. Still, as Coops says, we might not need a massive score to win this due to the conditions.
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England collapsing........have gone from 213-4 to 243-8 off 45 overs
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Still, at least 4 of the top 6 contributed. The way this series has gone, we could have them 20 for 3 or 80 for 0 from the first powerplay!
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It is still disappointing to finish on 268-9. We were on for a score of 300+, which on this pitch would have been a challenging score.
Sri Lanka look like a side playing the last match of a tour and are thinking of the flight home. If we bowl and field well, we should be able to defend the total. A couple of early wickets should set us up nicely.
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Great finish from Dernbach. England take the series.
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What a brilliant match.
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Great finish well done England
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Come on you Bears! You can do the Pears a big favour by beating Durham tonight.
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Come on you Bears! You can do the Pears a big favour by beating Durham tonight.
In that case, come on Durham. ;¬)
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Great 'Blade Runner' dismissal at the Oval.
G O Jones c Roy b Batty 61
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Yeah come on Durham
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Broad or Bresnan for the 1st test v India.................Bresnan for me
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Bresnan for me to.
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I think that it will come down to which of Bresnan or Broad is more suited to the conditions on the 1st day of the test.
The dropping of Broad for the last ODI has perhaps given him a stark reminder of what's expected. He strikes me as pretty immature and so giving him the T20 captaincy may have made him complacent. His exclusion from the last ODI will have hurt. He's gone back to Notts with his tail between his legs and started with a 5-fer. Hopefully the kick up the backside will have worked.
It's a difficult one to call. Bresnan deserves a run in the side but potentially Broad offers more with the bat. Over to you Mr Flower!
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Tendulkar's maiden century
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/14192094.stm
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Great programme on BBC2 tonight about Sir Beefy. The '81 Ashes will live long in my memory and it was great to see the footage again.
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Yes, enjoyed that.
The Edgbaston Test was my first ever Test match, can't knock my Dad for his judgement in taking me to that one then!
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Yes, enjoyed that.
The Edgbaston Test was my first ever Test match, can't knock my Dad for his judgement in taking me to that one then!
My dad's judgement was a bit flawed. We were on holiday in Devon! Sorry dad!! I remember that we were playing cricket in a park when some random bloke came across to tell us that Beefy had pulled off another amazing victory.
Wonderful 1st test to see Dave, were you there for the 5 wickets for 1 run? I bet the atmosphere was something else.
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I missed the first two of the five, was queueing for food for us both, I certainly heard them though!
There was a strange sense of confidence in the ground even when all looked lost, don't forget a lot of us in there were also Villa fans, we thought absolutely anything was possible that year.
I was also at all four days of Edgbaston 2005 so I've been to two of the greatest ever.
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Not a good toss to lose. Bugger.
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Just need to hold out for an hour or so.
But yes, could have done with winning that as we have much the better swing bowlers.
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Cook gone, that's bad news. Not happy batting in this.
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Looks like Zaheer Khan has pulled his hamstring.
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127 for 2 in pretty ideal bowling conditions represents a very good, albeit shortened day.
Shame to lose the toss as Anderson would have been a nightmare to face.
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If Zaheer has done his hamstring then their attack will be considerably weakened. He looked short of match fitness today but was still getting some great movement.
KP looked out of sorts but I think that he may play his way through it. Trotty was solid. The first hour tomorrow will be testing and if we can survive that then we should build a decent first innings total. The weather forecast for the next few days is much better.
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50 for KP, his slowest ever!
This is like a proper old fashioned test match, scoring rate well below 3 runs per over.
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I was thinking that. It really is the sort of scoring rate you would get at a Test before the Aussies changed the style of Test cricket.
All you need now is Peter West wearing a brown suit in the studio with Ted Dexter.
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I'm enjoying it, KP and Harberjhan are having a proper battle.
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KP and Belly have added 50 in no time. We're accelerating and it really is fascinating to watch.
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Great 100 for KP, well done.
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Oh dear Bell and Morgan go in quick succession, that's brought India right back.
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Lily Allen on TMS talking to Aggers!
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KP looks to be back to his sublime best, he's added 49 in 4 overs with Swanny (Swann just out)
We've really put down a marker for the whole series in this match so far.
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KP looks to be back to his sublime best, he's added 49 in 4 overs with Swanny (Swann just out)
We've really put down a marker for the whole series in this match so far.
agreed, india poor in the field but broad needs a big performance with the ball
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Am I right in thinking there are 15 to 20 overs left?
Hopefully we can add another 30-40 runs in the next ten overs then give India an awkward 10 overs at the close of play.
...or would you hope England keep batting?
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Am I right in thinking there are 15 to 20 overs left?
Hopefully we can add another 30-40 runs in the next ten overs then give India an awkward 10 overs at the close of play.
...or would you hope England keep batting?
Declared when KP got to 200.
A nice 8 or so overs to bowl at them tonight. Finish is at 7pm regardless of the number of overs left.
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Fantastic knock from KP.
Toughed it out when he had to, and then played his natural game past the 100 mark.
He's always had the tools, but what's the point if you don't cash in once you're set, or get out really mindless shots again and again?
Maybe the penny has finally dropped. With the form of Cook and Trott (and even Bell) recently, maybe he realises he's no longer automatically the biggest gig in town, can just do what he likes and stay in the team.
I'd have declared past the 500 mark, but maybe that's just me.
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Great effort KP, brilliant stuff. Now let's get into them tomorrow.
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Mukund should have been out LBW, but England didn't appeal.
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Broad bowling much better and fuller.
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Broad bowling much better and fuller.
great delivery.......much much better
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Full and straight Broad bowls Gambir, that's the stuff.
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Mukund should have been out LBW, but England didn't appeal.
That's not like Broad, usually the first to appeal even when it's clearly a not out-er
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Mukund gone.
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Well done Broady, bit lucky but who cares.............Sachin next please
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Broad is bowling really well here, now he's pitching it up.
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Broad is bowling really well here, now he's pitching it up.
Certainly is, I wasn't sure he had that spell in him. Well bowled
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Broad is bowling really well here, now he's pitching it up.
Certainly is, I wasn't sure he had that spell in him. Well bowled
Get in there..........Sachin gone
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Big wicket Broady.
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Strauss just dropped a very easy chance off Broad. Laxman for 0 could be costly.
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Shocker from Strauss.
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Laxman dropped again off Broad.
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Harder chance but Swanny should have got that
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Difficult one that in fairness to Swann Shopping Centre.
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Sorry that was Dravid, even worse.
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Strauss will be a relieved man, Laxman gone.
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Strauss will be a relieved man, Laxman gone.
True enough we just need Dravid now.....................
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Raina gone!
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yahooooooo good decision Billy boy
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Paul........Whats the follow on figure
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277 I think.
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Dhoni gone!
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Harbhajan gone!
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Two quick wickets with the new ball and India's tail doesn't usually wag too hard.
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And got 'em.
Lead of 188, bat until tea tomorrow? Should have a lead of 400 or so by then.
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A quick 250 I reckon.
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Hmm 3 wickets gone already.
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Encouraging to see quite a bit of bounce and carry in this pitch now.
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Bell gone, fucking hell.
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That looked close
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Pitch turning a bit aswell.
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This really has been an excellent test match so far, between two very high quality sides.
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This really has been an excellent test match so far, between two very high quality sides.
Yes it is, almost lunch on the fourth day and all results still on the cards although that wicket tips it a little towards them.
After a pretty flat series against Sri Lanka this is just what was needed.
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Still quite a bit of batting to come though.
Hopefully Morgan and Prior can put on a bit of a counter attack.
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This is great, England were never going to have it all their own way, India are too good for that.
Still (just) fancy England though, as long as the tail wags and get's us close to a 350 lead, and then Anderson finds a bit of swing.
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This is great, England were never going to have it all their own way, India are too good for that.
Still (just) fancy England though, as long as the tail wags and get's us close to a 350 lead, and then Anderson finds a bit of swing.
Inconsiderate bastards have scuppered my plans to do some work in the garden today.
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Time for Morgan to show what he's made of now.
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Cannot believe Atherton has just said the standard of the Cricket hasn't been very good up until today.
What about Pietersen's brilliant double hundred? What about Broad's fine spell of full length, quick bowling? What about Dravid's wonderful defiant hundred?
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Atherton has been a miserable bugger ever since he became a pundit, he'd love to be controversial like Boycott or even Botham but he just comes across as a miserable bugger.
Anyway, lead edging towards 300. Good resistance from Prior and morgan.
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Well done Broad, I am happy he has proved me wrong........5 wickets in the 2nd innings please
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That is one hell of an innings from Prior.
What a cricketer he is.
Right come on lads, lets get into them.
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Well done Prior, brilliant..............
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Fantastic by Prior and Broad as well.
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Well done Prior, brilliant..............
After being pretty woeful in the first innings, it was a good effort by Ishant Sharma in the second
Altogether now......... "Ishant Sharma's gonna get you"
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Mukund bowled Broady!
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If we can get rid of one of these soon it really does open up the game for us
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Broad is bowling brilliantly now, it's funny how confidence can change things.
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How many overs tomorrow? Normally 90, but we must still be catching up Thursday's lost play?
I like T20s, one dayers are cool, but how can you top Test Cricket?! We lost a vital toss, put on loads of runs, dismissed them cheaply, made it look like we were well on course, then lost 5 in one session, recovered superbly and I guess we're slight favourites to win.... But who knows when you've got Dravid, Laxman, Gambhir, Dhoni and some Little Master to bat!
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98 overs 2moro
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No way they can chase down 458.
Absolutely no way.
Can they?.
I tell you what, if they are 180-2 around lunch I might start to panic
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No way they can chase down 458.
Absolutely no way.
Can they?.
I tell you what, if they are 180-2 around lunch I might start to panic
It frustrates me when people rave about the Indian batting line up. Sure they have some wonderful players and Tendulkar is a master, but before Dravid's ton in their first innings, none of this stelar line up had scored a ton at Lords.
My main concern is that Tremlett seems to be carrying an injury and looked out of sorts.
Monday will be a great days play. Please hold your catches England! We'll win, but it will see-saw and perhaps the injuries to Gambhir, Zaheer and Tendulkar's "viral ilness" (aka common cold) will prove to be crucial.
I love test cricket!
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£20 tomorrow. Might get down there.
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Great performance in the morning session.
The intensity was spot on and we were slightly unlucky not to have taken a couple more.
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Following it on BBC commentary at work, wish I could see it! It sounds great, come on England!
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Tendulkar got away with one there. Huge LBW appeal from Broad, given not out, ball hitting middle stump.
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Michael Vaughn is trying to get everyone in the ground to wave to Aggers.
Classic TMS
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Another let off for Tendulkar. Dropped at first slip. And then LBW two balls later!! Jimmy Anderson!!
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nice one Jimmy
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5 wickets needed, in minimum 44 overs...
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Great stuff Broady.
Two to go.
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Great stuff Jimmy lad.
Get that car started.
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Get in there.
Wonderful performance, especially today. Completely squeezed the life out of India.
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I expect KP will get man of the match, but I'd give it to Prior. Great 1st innings knock, superb match saving second innings and exceptional keeping. Great win.
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Great team performance, this lot deserve to be number one in the world.
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Great team performance, this lot deserve to be number one in the world.
That they do.
Everything about the whole England set up is extremely impressive.
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I expect KP will get man of the match, but I'd give it to Prior. Great 1st innings knock, superb match saving second innings and exceptional keeping. Great win.
I'd probably go Broad. Swung the match in our favour in India's first innings, made a vital 70 odd when we were slipping a little in our second innings and I thought he bowled fantastically today. 3 wickets did not do him justice.
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Excellent performance.
Unlike some other test matches recently, this was tough going at various stages -though the final margin doesn't necessarily reflect that.
At 60 for 5 yesterday India were back in it, and I think England sides in the past may well have crumbled. Three good days and then just throw it away in one mad session. Previous England sides might have struggled today, too. That spell just after lunch that didn't yield a wicket could have been disheartening, or one bowler not quite at the races could have started to leak runs and ease the pressure. Yet even though Tremlett wasn't at his best, that didn't occur. And the bowlers eventually got their reward.
This could be a more telling result (and series) than the Ashes campaign down under. That was effectively the 4th best team versus the 5th. This is now the 2nd best team chasing down the 1st.
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I expect KP will get man of the match, but I'd give it to Prior. Great 1st innings knock, superb match saving second innings and exceptional keeping. Great win.
I'd probably go Broad. Swung the match in our favour in India's first innings, made a vital 70 odd when we were slipping a little in our second innings and I thought he bowled fantastically today. 3 wickets did not do him justice.
Good shout.
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What a fabulous test match. it had everything. We lost the toss on a bowling first morning, declared twice and bowled them out twice to win by the best part of 200 runs. Richly deserved.
I really hope that we can carry this on through the series, although India will come good. They're too talented not to.
Oh and Prior was my man of the match. His partnership with Broad on the 4th day turned the game back in our favour. He was pretty tidy with the gloves too.
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Brilliant perfomance, so many outstanding individual efforts. England are the best in the World.
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Superb performance, and with a ruthlessness that reminds one of Australia in their pomp.
We lost just one session in five days, against the best team in the World (for now).
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Quick note to say that the Bears have put tickets on sale for the 5th day of the Test Match @ £10.00 each, thats Sunday,
15th of August
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Flower unhappy with limited DRS (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/content/current/story/524903.html)
Andy Flower, the England coach, has said the ICC should have over-ruled India's insistence on using a watered-down Decision Review System (DRS) for the ongoing Test series. He felt the system for the series - which doesn't use ball-tracking technology, and doesn't allow lbw decisions to be reviewed - was "unsatisfactory", a view shared by England bowlers Graeme Swann and James Anderson.
England had several close lbw appeals turned down as they hunted for wickets on the final day of the Lord's Test, including against Sachin Tendulkar and Suresh Raina off Stuart Broad. Though England ultimately completed a straightforward 196-run victory to take a 1-0 series lead, Flower was unhappy.
"It would have been wrong if the outcome of the game was seriously affected by a couple of those decisions. It's unsatisfactory the way it is, no doubt about that," Flower said. "I think the ICC should be stronger in taking a lead on these issues. They are the world governing body and they should lead."
Whilst I get the logic in having a universal application of full DRS for all the test playing nations, I get India's concerns too.
Particularly on sub continent wickets, the spinner comes into it far more and I've seen quite a few iffy looking hawkeye playbacks when slow bowlers are involved -here and abroad. If it was just an error rate of a few millimetres, then fine. But what about the ball that dies and dips at the last second? The variation in pace is a key part of spin bowling and I think hawkeye struggles with that at times. For the pace bowlers it's less of an issue, same with tennis, as the ball will most likely maintain more of a consistent pace throughout the specific delivery measured.
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Flower unhappy with limited DRS (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/content/current/story/524903.html)
Andy Flower, the England coach, has said the ICC should have over-ruled India's insistence on using a watered-down Decision Review System (DRS) for the ongoing Test series. He felt the system for the series - which doesn't use ball-tracking technology, and doesn't allow lbw decisions to be reviewed - was "unsatisfactory", a view shared by England bowlers Graeme Swann and James Anderson.
England had several close lbw appeals turned down as they hunted for wickets on the final day of the Lord's Test, including against Sachin Tendulkar and Suresh Raina off Stuart Broad. Though England ultimately completed a straightforward 196-run victory to take a 1-0 series lead, Flower was unhappy.
"It would have been wrong if the outcome of the game was seriously affected by a couple of those decisions. It's unsatisfactory the way it is, no doubt about that," Flower said. "I think the ICC should be stronger in taking a lead on these issues. They are the world governing body and they should lead."
Whilst I get the logic in having a universal application of full DRS for all the test playing nations, I get India's concerns too.
Particularly on sub continent wickets, the spinner comes into it far more and I've seen quite a few iffy looking hawkeye playbacks when slow bowlers are involved -here and abroad. If it was just an error rate of a few millimetres, then fine. But what about the ball that dies and dips at the last second? The variation in pace is a key part of spin bowling and I think hawkeye struggles with that at times. For the pace bowlers it's less of an issue, same with tennis, as the ball will most likely maintain more of a consistent pace throughout the specific delivery measured.
I think that one of the commentators (can't remember which) made a good point.
It was basically that a lot of the Indian batsman play with bat and pad together vs spinners. Its difficult for an umpire to ascertain whether the ball hits bat or pad first, and will most likely give the batsmen the benefit of the doubt. But the technology would show this on a review, leading to more being given out.
I'm not wholly in favour of the system, but it does mean a higher percentage of decisions are correct.
-
Flower unhappy with limited DRS (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/content/current/story/524903.html)
Andy Flower, the England coach, has said the ICC should have over-ruled India's insistence on using a watered-down Decision Review System (DRS) for the ongoing Test series. He felt the system for the series - which doesn't use ball-tracking technology, and doesn't allow lbw decisions to be reviewed - was "unsatisfactory", a view shared by England bowlers Graeme Swann and James Anderson.
England had several close lbw appeals turned down as they hunted for wickets on the final day of the Lord's Test, including against Sachin Tendulkar and Suresh Raina off Stuart Broad. Though England ultimately completed a straightforward 196-run victory to take a 1-0 series lead, Flower was unhappy.
"It would have been wrong if the outcome of the game was seriously affected by a couple of those decisions. It's unsatisfactory the way it is, no doubt about that," Flower said. "I think the ICC should be stronger in taking a lead on these issues. They are the world governing body and they should lead."
Whilst I get the logic in having a universal application of full DRS for all the test playing nations, I get India's concerns too.
Particularly on sub continent wickets, the spinner comes into it far more and I've seen quite a few iffy looking hawkeye playbacks when slow bowlers are involved -here and abroad. If it was just an error rate of a few millimetres, then fine. But what about the ball that dies and dips at the last second? The variation in pace is a key part of spin bowling and I think hawkeye struggles with that at times. For the pace bowlers it's less of an issue, same with tennis, as the ball will most likely maintain more of a consistent pace throughout the specific delivery measured.
I think that one of the commentators (can't remember which) made a good point.
It was basically that a lot of the Indian batsman play with bat and pad together vs spinners. Its difficult for an umpire to ascertain whether the ball hits bat or pad first, and will most likely give the batsmen the benefit of the doubt. But the technology would show this on a review, leading to more being given out.
I'm not wholly in favour of the system, but it does mean a higher percentage of decisions are correct.
I've got a feeling that the Indian board vetoed DRS for the duration of this series to nullify the effect of Graeme Swann. I read somewhere that almost 30% of his test wickets were LBW which is 10% more than Warne and Murali.
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Tremlett a doubt for second test.
Although one of the great things about this current English side is that we have a high quality cricketer like Bresnan to come in and the side wouldn't be weakened.
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It will probably be Bresnan but I'd go with Dernbach, he offers something different and has a superb slower ball.
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Zaheer Khan is out. They will miss him, he's one of the top bowlers in the world.
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I've got a feeling that the Indian board vetoed DRS for the duration of this series to nullify the effect of Graeme Swann. I read somewhere that almost 30% of his test wickets were LBW which is 10% more than Warne and Murali.
They haven't used it since 2008. They're just not comfortable with it. Though -hopefully- if a few ropey decisions get overturned in their favour using hotspot, they might reconsider. I wasn't a fan of it to start with -the series in West India was close to farcical.
But 2 reviews each per innings works. Teams can't over use it, or exploit it tactically. It also does away with excessive appealing for the most part - if you're really that convinced, use up one of your lifelines.
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I wouldn't be surprised if they pick Yuvraj tomorrow, his bowling would also be useful to them.
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I've got a feeling that the Indian board vetoed DRS for the duration of this series to nullify the effect of Graeme Swann. I read somewhere that almost 30% of his test wickets were LBW which is 10% more than Warne and Murali.
They haven't used it since 2008. They're just not comfortable with it. Though -hopefully- if a few ropey decisions get overturned in their favour using hotspot, they might reconsider. I wasn't a fan of it to start with -the series in West India was close to farcical.
But 2 reviews each per innings works. Teams can't over use it, or exploit it tactically. It also does away with excessive appealing for the most part - if you're really that convinced, use up one of your lifelines.
I'm comfortable with it and think that it works. The 2 reviews per innings is the best way forward.
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If there's any doubt about Tremlett, then he can't play. If he breaks down during the test, we'll be left with just Jimmy & Broad as our quicks. It's a great question as to who to replace him. Finn, like for like, or Bresnan with his variations, especially his slower ball.
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Cook gone, poor LBW decision apparently.
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It was the wrong decision, the ball was missing. What's the point of having half a review system?!
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Not looking good at the moment.
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Nope. We need a responsible knock from KP here...
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Crucial toss for India to win again. Hopefully overhead conditions will be similar whenever our turn to bowl comes.
Need to get to lunch only 2 down, then re-assess.
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wow that looked close
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The sun is supposed to come out this afternoon which should control the swing a little.
India have not bowled well as a unit, the swing in the first half an hour was prodigious. They've not exploited it as well as they can. Nine fours in the session with a net run rate of 2.6 illustrates the number of poor balls that they've sent down.
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Strauss has looked very solid and KP looks in good touch.
69 for 2 represents a reasonable start after losing the toss in difficult conditions.
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KP gone straight after lunch, bad.
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Looking dodgy now, needs another epic from Prior now.
If we get 200 we'll be doing well now.
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Looking dodgy now, needs another epic from Prior now.
If we get 200 we'll be doing well now.
200 in these conditions would be a very very good score.
I think we should try to be more aggressive now. India are bowling well and with a defensive mindset you are eventually going to get an unplayable ball with your name on it.
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This could be a low scoring affair! 112 for 6, 200 seems very far off...
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Bresnan out and 200 would be like 400 on this pitch.
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I must admit I'm looking forward to seeing Jimmy bowling on this.
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Have to be positive now. Absolutely no point in waiting to get out.
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The ball that got Bresnan was amazing. The movement through the air and off the pitch is huge.
Jimmy will bowl well on this track, but it's the sort of wicket that a Colly would thrive on.
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These two should just throw the bat now
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124 for 8!
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What an unbelievably crucial toss that India have won.
England will have great conditions to bowl in aswell, but its much more difficult when the momentum is firmly against you.
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Why on earth are India so negative with their field placings? We're 8 wickets down for christ sake.
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We've also been unlucky with several umpiring decisions - today and the last day of the first test. The longer Broad & Swann can stay together, the better.
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Crucial runs these.
Hope that fkin sun stays away when we bowl.
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Vital stand by Broad & Swann. I hope that we can edge up to near 200.
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Need to be reasonably sensible now after a great counterattack.
Still be aggressive but don't give it away.
India look a little rattled.
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Blimey, some uneven bounce to go with massive amounts of seam and swing.
Makes for highly interesting cricket.
Try and eek out another 20 runs or so.
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Unreal the sun coming out now.
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Gotta say, a ridiculously poor over rate by the Indians yet again. Dhoni surely close to a suspension.
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221 valuable runs. Well played, Broady. And to think he almost missed out on this series...
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Interesting hour or so of play coming up. Time for the bowlers to step up and put pressure on the Indian batsmen.
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Nice time to bowl this.
Get it full and make them play. The ball should do the work for you.
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Get in there Jimmy,
Great start
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Awesome 1st ball. JIMMY!!!!!!!
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I'm not ashamed to say that I shouted YES at that!
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Recovered to something approaching ok, well done lower order. And 0-1 brilliant!
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Fine over,
Keep the pressure on now.
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Not having much luck here
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Don't think he hit that,
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ffs
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So unlucky to have only one wicket so far.
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oh well, an interesting days cricket indeed.
Hopefully conditions will be similar tomorrow. I'd back us to get a reasonable first innings lead if they are.
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Tough day for England. Another couple of wickets in the last hour would have been nice and we were pretty unlucky.
Swann has gone for an x-ray on his hand but thankfully not his bowling hand. We'll miss him in the slips though.
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It's set up nicely. Looking forward to going Sunday.
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Really poor start from England this morning in the first couple of overs.
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Hot spot is bollocks, I'm certain Laxman edged that.
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This is not looking good.
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This could get very gruesome if we don't start taking wickets soon.
Ah well, keeps the series alive!
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Yeah we look pretty flat since Laxman wasn't given out.
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Hot spot is bollocks, I'm certain Laxman edged that.
Has he put Vaseline on his bat............
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What is going on with Swann he is not on the pitch?
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What is going on with Swann he is not on the pitch?
Someone twittered he may injured himelf in warm up again
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Well he's coming back onto the pitch now.
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Finally a wicket get ball Bres.
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Why is Trott still bowling?
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Hot spot is bollocks, I'm certain Laxman edged that.
Has he put Vaseline on his bat............
When I was at the Brisbane Test I was sat near the hotspot camera and I got chatting to the bloke who was looking after it. He was telling me that in temperatures over about 32 degrees it doesn't pick up slight edges where the ball brushes the bat.
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Why is Trott still bowling?
Agreed.
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Tendulkar gone!
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Trott's shoulder looks pretty badly hurt.
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Raina gone! very loose.
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Pietersen dropped Yuvraj, bad.
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That drop has been crucial. They are going to have a big first innings lead.
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Yuvraj gone, very costly drop though.
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6 down. The new ball is making a difference.
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Harbhajan gone, Broad on a hat trick
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Big inside edge. Impossible to feel any sympathy for Indian batsmen though.
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Big inside edge. Impossible to feel any sympathy for Indian batsmen though.
Amazed that the umpire missed that
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Broad having one hell of a series with bat and ball.
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GET FUCKIN IN THERE.
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Broad hat trick!
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Hat Trick feckin awesome!!!!!
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Absolutely brilliant bowling
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Peach of a ball for the third.
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Dravid gone. 4 wickets fall with no runs scored
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This is some collapse.
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Dravid gone now after a sublime hundred.
This series refuses to be anything other than exhilarating.
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Cook drops a chance. We've been poor this series, catching wise.
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Come on now, cut out the sloppiness.
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We need to get this last wicket pretty soon and keep their lead to around 60-odd. We're likely to be a batsman short as Trott's injury looked pretty bad, I wouldn't think he'll bat.
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All out, well bowled Broady good 6-fer
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Great catch Bell. Now don't lose any wickets England.
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Fantastic Stuart Broad.
Where on earth has this world class bowler been hiding?
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Right, momentum firmly with us now.
Crucial to get to the end of play no wickets down. Hopefully Trott not as bad as feared.
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The pitch is playing better and the weather has improved since we were put in yesterday. Hopefully we won't loose any wickets tonight.
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I think both innings have shown signs of the character in this England side. 120 odd for 8 batting, then counterattack to keep themselves in the game, India 250 odd for 4 with England staring down the barrel of a big deficit, only for Broad to produce a great spell of new ball bowling, again keeping us firmly in the game.
England sides of the past would have subsided meekly in both situations.
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A couple of batsmen need to step up for us.
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Test cricket is clearly the best form of the game, this series is demonstrating why.
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For fucks sake Cook.
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Test cricket is clearly the best form of the game, this series is demonstrating why.
Test cricket is the sport I enjoy watching more than any by a large margin.
A series like this, between two excellent sides playing great cricket at a ferocious intensity is heaven.
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Fuck Cook gone.
I hate Test cricket.
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We need two or three batsmen to step up in this innings and get us a score of above 300.
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Bell in at 3.
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Please no more wickets tonight.
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Poor from Cook, suddenly the Ashes tour seems a long time ago................
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Poor from Cook, suddenly the Ashes tour seems a long time ago................
He's had a couple of poor games, but the form he had through the ashes and against Sri Lanka can't last forever.
India have bowled in the perfect areas to him though. Full and swinging.
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Broad took 5 wickets for 0 in 16 balls
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Broad took 5 wickets for 0 in 16 balls
In this game and the last, where he's bowled a full length, he's looked as good as any quick bowler in world cricket. If he can be consistent, and continue to improve his already more than useful batting, what a player England will have.
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Wonderful days play.
India slightly ahead at the moment, with the lead around 40 and Trott unlikely to bat again.
However a good morning session tomorrow and England are in control. Hopefully the weather will be good again as batting seemed markedly easier today than yesterday. Although the pitch still has enough in it.
Also a couple of signs of uneven bounce coming in, India have to bat last so any lead of over 200 and England would have a fighting chance.
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A great write up of a great day
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/content/current/story/525306.html
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That was a fantastic days play, again.
India still ahead, but they have had the best of the conditions all the way through this series so far and still England are hanging in, if we could only win a toss on a humid. cloudy morning.
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That was a fantastic days play, again.
India still ahead, but they have had the best of the conditions all the way through this series so far and still England are hanging in, if we could only win a toss on a humid. cloudy morning.
If only. If we'd have bowled on the first day I don't think India would have got much beyond 150. Looking an absolutely crucial toss they have won.
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I was at Trent Bridge today and I am not sure what the most extraordinary thing I saw was; Stuart Broad's 5-0 off 16 balls or the size Mike Gatting has ballooned to. The word corpulent does not do him justice, he was Channel Five shockumentary size.
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Right, Trott unlikely to bat again is a loss, might be crucial, but even more crucial despite whatever the result is, who do we replace him with if he's out of the series?
Another batsman? Bopara? Not many batsmen making a claim at the moment.
I say bring a bowler in, we already bat to number 9. 10 and even Anderson can hold his own, so why not Woakes? Knows Edgbaston, gets his share of runs, move everyone up one and stick him in at eight.
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In fairness Trescothick is in great form. Such a shame about his personal problems as hes still more than good enough to get plenty of runs at test level.
I'd stick with the 4 bowlers and bring Bopara in and bat Bell at 3. Bopara's got runs this year and has by all accounts matured a bit.
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I would pick James Taylor he looks a great prospect.........much will depend on what happens in this test if we go to the
home of cricket 2 - 0 up then I cant see up picking another bowler
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I would pick James Taylor he looks a great prospect.........much will depend on what happens in this test if we go to the
home of cricket 2 - 0 up then I cant see up picking another bowler
I'd go with Taylor. We're pretty well covered in the bowling department but we do seem to be light on the next generation of batsmen.
I'm not a Bopara fan, his technique is suspect at the highest level. A poor Aussie attack found him out in 2009 and I don't think that he's the answer. I'm also concerned about Morgan. He looks to be a good batsman who plays some unorthodox shots but he needs a score to cement his place in the side. He got his highest test score at Trent Bridge against Pakistan last year so let's hope history repeats itself.
Cricinfo are reporting that Trotty may bat if needed. Let's hope we don't need him!
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/content/current/story/525383.html
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I agree fully about Bopara, the thing that may go in his favour is his bowling but that I think is suspect @ test level
I would even consider Samit Patel ahead of Bopara
Morgan needs a score in this innings
Alex Hales and Ben Stokes look very promising
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I think Morgan is fine, and they should persevere with him. Bell is playing a belter of an innings here.
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Bell has played a blinder, we need these two to get big runs.
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I don't think Bopara's technique is in question, more that his temperament has been.
Judging from a far he seems far more focused this year. His decision not to go to the IPL, but to play for Essex to push his claims showed maturity. (If little financial sense)
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Still more than enough in this pitch.
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Hot spot is bollocks, I'm certain Laxman edged that.
Has he put Vaseline on his bat............
When I was at the Brisbane Test I was sat near the hotspot camera and I got chatting to the bloke who was looking after it. He was telling me that in temperatures over about 32 degrees it doesn't pick up slight edges where the ball brushes the bat.
The Umpire John Holder was on TMS at lunchtime. He was saying that there is nothing in the laws to prevent the batsman applying vaseline to his bat. They cannot make a batsman change his bat. One for the lawmakers then.
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Is there not a way to apply snicko faster?
That seems much more reliable that Hotspot.
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Is there not a way to apply snicko faster?
That seems much more reliable that Hotspot.
You would have thought so. It seems to take them about 5 minutes to obtain the sound file from snicko which is far too long. I still think you need a mix of hotspot and snicko though.
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Michael Holding was reviewing Tendulkars dismissal yesterday and trying to make a point about how high up on the bat he had nicked off to Strauss at slip and Hotspot didn't even show that edge - Mikey let it go with a throwaway comment about it but more should have been made of it imo - if Hotspot is not up to the task or can be defeated by vaseline or whatever then snicko does need to be speeded up somehow.
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Plumb batting conditions Athers? Really?
Still swing there with the odd bit of uneven bounce. Its certainly better for batting than the first day, but similar conditions to when India batted.
Englands score looks good as Bell and Pietersen have played magnificently and India haven't bowled that well.
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Sublime ton by ian Bell, Villa Fan
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Great knock Belly,
Made it look ridiculously easy in a precarious match situation.
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Brilliant Belly.
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Right, make it a big'un now Ian.
India's wheels starting to come loose.
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Don't let your ego get the better of you KP,
Play Yuvraj on merit.
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Shit KP gone, poor shot.
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Yeah there's always the danger of that. Morgan needs to do his job now.
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Time for Morgan to come to the party.
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It would appear that Trott is going to bat, after having two net sessions in the day and a probable injection.
Therefore heaps of batting still to come. Play sensibly and we should get into a fantastic position.
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what a fuckin ridiculous way to get out.
what an absolute joke.
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This is ridiculous and also not great sportsmanship.
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India should do the decent thing here, and call Bell back.
This is not football, its cricket.
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They should be embarrassed with that.
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Its highly embarrassing from an England point of view aswell, But Jesus that is not on India.
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It was poor from England. However it was disgraceful from India.
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As Gower said, India did nothing wrong and as Nasser just said, England would have done exactly the same.
Unless, as Bell said, the Umpire called over, then its England's fault (NB - audio suggests that "over" was not called)
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The umpire spoke to the bowler as he was handing his jumper back.
That can only have been to say that the over was finished.
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It's still appalling spirit and if England had done I'd say the same.
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It was poor from England. However it was disgraceful from India.
Unless the Umpire called "Over", India did nothing wrong. It's the batters' fault for making sure that the ball was dead (either as a "Four" or the Umpire calling "Over")
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The audio that Sky has is that the Umpire called "Over" after the bails came off
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Definitely. How pathetic if a team want to win like that.
I can understand the initial appeal, but when given the chance to take their appeal back, not to do so is absolutely unforgivable. Its as bad as what Collingwood did to the New Zealand batsman a few years ago, when he slipped and England upheld their appeal.
It has totally cast a shadow over what has been an excellent series and match. The pundits can dress this up all they like, but it stinks.
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Gower's leaving no doubt that, on the basis of video/audio available so far, he blames Bell
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If India had done nothing wrong or massively against the spirit of the game, the umpires would not have given them the option of withdrawing their appeal.
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If India had done nothing wrong or massively against the spirit of the game, the umpires would not have given them the option of withdrawing their appeal.
Exactly.
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Definitely. How pathetic if a team want to win like that.
I can understand the initial appeal, but when given the chance to take their appeal back, not to do so is absolutely unforgivable. Its as bad as what Collingwood did to the New Zealand batsman a few years ago, when he slipped and England upheld their appeal.
It has totally cast a shadow over what has been an excellent series and match. The pundits can dress this up all they like, but it stinks.
To me, this is not a "spirit of the game" issue. Bell cocked up by leaving his crease before establishing that the ball is dead.
India took a live ball and ran him out. What's wrong with that ?
This isn't like someone in football diving or milking an injury.
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I've been run out like that and it was entirely my fault. Gutted for Bell but Test cricket is a tough game so I don't blame India for doing what they did. They didn't trick anyone or pull a fast one; it's not their responsibility to remind Ian Bell the ball is still live.
Hopefully this will spice things up and drive England on to a crushing win.
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If India had done nothing wrong or massively against the spirit of the game, the umpires would not have given them the option of withdrawing their appeal.
As I've mentioned before on here, I'd like to see the "appeal" system done away with. You're either out or you're not, the opposition shouldn't have to appeal for the decision.
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Oh Bell was incredibly careless not to know what was going on, there is no doubt about that.
Its the fact that India had the option to look at it retrospectively and do the right thing.
If the game was meandering to a draw, they would definitely have withdrawn the appeal.
Pathetic India, absolutely pathetic.
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Athers just saying that he tried to do exactly the same to Desmond Haines in a Test Match
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Bell not out!?
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After all that, it never happened.
Dhoni's withdrawn the appeal, so Bell's back in.
No one's coming out of this well, clumsy by Bell, messy by the Umpires and wimpy from Dhoni
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Blimey, scratch every bad word i've just said about India.
That shows great decency and i'm an idiot.
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I still think it's the right decision overall.
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Seems the appeal has been withdrawn, or at least the dismissal has been rescinded.
If that's MS Dhoni's decision then that's great and to his credit. If the umpires have decided they can't give it out, then I can understand that too.
Some of the crowd have been made to look a bit daft.
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Looks like he's withdrawn that appeal.
Strange goings on, really. Probably for the best, but I still think Bell can consider himself fortunate; he made a mistake and was, perfectly legally, punished.
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Absolutely fair play to India. Well done indeed.
Another point is that is does seem rather silly that there wasn't an announcement made to the crowd during tea, would have done away with the booing and my emotional ramblings.
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Well done Dhoni, but was Bell attempting a 4th run though
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Seems the appeal has been withdrawn, or at least the dismissal has been rescinded.
If that's MS Dhoni's decision then that's great and to his credit. If the umpires have decided they can't give it out, then I can understand that too.
Some of the crowd have been made to look a bit daft.
The thing is though, that the crowd doesn't look to have been informed at any stage. Either when he was initially given out or why, and they weren't informed that Dhoni had taken the appeal back. If they had been, the Indians would have been met with cheers.
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Well done Dhoni, but was Bell attempting a 4th run though
As Bumble and Athers have just discussed, as Bell was approaching him, Morgan made sure his bat was grounded, so he knew that the ball hadn't been called dead.
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Anyway, the right thing has happened, well done to India.
Now lets get back to an excellent test match.
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[quote author=taylorsworkrate link=topic=42904.msg1855476#msg1855476
The thing is though, that the crowd doesn't look to have been informed at any stage. Either when he was initially given out or why, and they weren't informed that Dhoni had taken the appeal back. If they had been, the Indians would have been met with cheers.
[/quote]
Well quite, but some of the crowd had assumed the worst without any hard info. Which is what made them look foolish.
As to the dismissal itself, I rather think Asad Rauf believed it was over; Bell clearly though Rauf had called over. We can't be certain of that but given the uncertainty, and given the effect it might have had on relations between the two sides, I think the umpires and the skippers got together at tea and agreed not to give Bell out.
Very sensible, good for the game and the series.
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After all that, it never happened.
Dhoni's withdrawn the appeal, so Bell's back in.
No one's coming out of this well, clumsy by Bell, messy by the Umpires and wimpy from Dhoni
I disagree. The Umpires acted by the letter of the law and Bell was careless. Dhoni comes out of this with a lot of credit and deserves praise for acting in the spirit of the game.
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This from cricinfo:
"Another update, reportedly from Jonathan Aggers on TMS: Strauss and Flower went to the Indian dressing room at tea and asked Dhoni if he would withdraw the appeal. And Dhoni consented. The umpires did not have a part to play in it. "
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After all that, it never happened.
Dhoni's withdrawn the appeal, so Bell's back in.
No one's coming out of this well, clumsy by Bell, messy by the Umpires and wimpy from Dhoni
I disagree. The Umpires acted by the letter of the law and Bell was careless. Dhoni comes out of this with a lot of credit and deserves praise for acting in the spirit of the game.
That's my view on it as well.
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BBC cricket correspondent Jonathan Agnew on Twitter: England captain (Andrew Strauss) and coach (Andy Flower) asked India to reconsider their appeal. India agreed to think about it, and then withdrew the appeal."
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[quote author=taylorsworkrate link=topic=42904.msg1855476#msg1855476
The thing is though, that the crowd doesn't look to have been informed at any stage. Either when he was initially given out or why, and they weren't informed that Dhoni had taken the appeal back. If they had been, the Indians would have been met with cheers.
Well quite, but some of the crowd had assumed the worst without any hard info. Which is what made them look foolish.
[/quote]
Yeah fair point. Its not often you see a cricket crowd like that though, and its quite funny to see the reaction change so quickly.
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Anyway, whats been lost in all this is that Morgan is playing a lovely cameo.
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Would have been nice if they'd have announved it over the PA system. Dhoni deserves the plaudits from the crowd.
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Would have been nice if they'd have announved it over the PA system. Dhoni deserves the plaudits from the crowd.
Hopefully when the players come of at the close of play, Dhoni and the team will get a nice ovation
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Dhoni will no doubt win the TMS Champagne moment. A nothing award but he deserves it.
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Dhoni has done very well to let Bell bat on, as he was out due to his own incompetence,
All this spirit of the game is all well and good but if the opposition miscalculate then they will and should be punished.
In my view Bell should not be batting
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Would have been nice if they'd have announved it over the PA system. Dhoni deserves the plaudits from the crowd.
Agreed. I think the reason they didn't is because it wasn't sorted out until right at the last minute. Perhaps they should have delayed the restart by a few minutes to make an announcement.
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apparently, a few of the Indian squad had big money on Bell making 150 :P
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Blimey, they've just shown the Collingwood incident from 08.
That was really bad.
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Blimey, they've just shown the Collingwood incident from 07.
That was really bad.
Yep that was appalling.
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Morgan gone.
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Trott batting.
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New ball moving all over the place.
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Meant to be a cloudy day tomorrow, and as we saw on the first day, that makes a huge difference to the conditions.
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This England side nothing if not resilient. This is the hall mark of all great teams.
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Trott gone. We need to get over 300 lead here.
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Wickets falling now. Pitch looks completely different to the flat one the commentators have banged on about all day long.
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Yeah we need to make sure we don't throwaway a chance of a big lead.
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I think theres been enough in the pitch all day long. Its obviously easier to bat with the sun out, but by no means an ideal batting wicket.
It may have appeared so because Bell, Pietersen and Morgan played so well. It may also have appeared so because India have bowled nowhere near well enough up until the second new ball. They take a wicket and all of a sudden they are putting the ball in the right areas and the ball and pitch are doing the work for them.
We should already have enough runs, and still a fair amount of batting to come.
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We should comfortably get a lead well in excess of 300. If Prior sticks around he could take this away from them in half an hour. Such an attacking player.
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Very interesting the stats about the respective lower orders.
England have got effectively 3 very good no 8's batting at 8, 9 and 10, and a no 11 who can hang around for a decent amount of time.
India have got Harbajhan, who can score runs and 3 genuine no 11's
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Prior playing another gem of an innings.
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Agreed belting innings.
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over 400 in the day.
great fun.
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over 400 in the day.
great fun.
Is it the first time that we've done that since the Ashes test at Edgbaston in 2005?
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over 400 in the day.
great fun.
Yeah believe so. Can't think of any other times England have done it in last 50 years or so.
Is it the first time that we've done that since the Ashes test at Edgbaston in 2005?
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Great stuff England.
Aggressively wrenched the game our way.
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Fantastic day of test cricket
-
Yep brilliant.
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Are we in for an overnight declaration or do we bat on tomorrow?
Strauss is a cautious captain and so i think we'll bat on and aim for a lead of 500 which is only 126 runs away. We should hopefully get to that figure just after lunch tomorrow (if Prior and Bresnan stick around) and we'd still have 5 sessions to bowl them out.
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No chance of declaration. There's no reason to give India a sniff, and plenty of time left in game.
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After the Laxman non-dismissal yesterday, Hot Spot is to undergo further testing:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/content/current/story/525466.html
Not sure how long the testing will take but use of it should be withdrawn until it's reliability can be established.
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Where would you rank this England team?
I think they're better than 2004 by some distance.
I was a bit too young to remember any of the Botham or Gatting teams.
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Where would you rank this England team?
I think they're better than 2004 by some distance.
I was a bit too young to remember any of the Botham or Gatting teams.
Best I've seen to be honest, the balance is right and they are never out of games.
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To declare overnight would be idiotic. Basically bat until either all out or tea tomorrow. If we somehow stick around until tea we'll have a lead of over 600 - something India would not be able to achieve in 4 sessions. Priority should be to make sure we cannot lose the match.
As for the ranking of the England side, I'd say it's by far the best set up we've had (by that I mean current XI in this match plus the likes of Tremlett, Finn etc who are in the background) we've had in my lifetime of watching cricket (early 90s is the earliest I can remember).
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It is the strength in depth and balance that is so good about this squad. I'd guess that there is no single player who you could strongly say is the best "ever" yet collectively they compliment each other enormously.
Prior v stewart?
Broad v Flintoff
Cook v Atherton
Strauss v Vaughan
Close calls but I'd guess the ex players were individually better.
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Prior has to be the best wicketkeeper/batsman around, his glovework has improved massively and always looks as if he is going to score runs. Bell was brilliant today, great to see a true Villan performing like that
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Prior has to be the best wicketkeeper/batsman around, his glovework has improved massively and always looks as if he is going to score runs. Bell was brilliant today, great to see a true Villan performing like that
Hear hear. Dropping Prior from the 20/20 and the one day squad was a masterstroke. All his effort and energy is now applied to the test arena, and god it shows.
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Are we in for an overnight declaration or do we bat on tomorrow?
Bat till lunch get another 100 and job is as good as done. India will crumble when they look at the size of the task ahead of them.
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To declare overnight would be idiotic. Basically bat until either all out or tea tomorrow. If we somehow stick around until tea we'll have a lead of over 600 - something India would not be able to achieve in 4 sessions. Priority should be to make sure we cannot lose the match.
I'd declare about an hour after lunch if we can make it that far. We should be in a position where we will be 500+ runs ahead. Do India try to win it from there with a day and a half remaining? it's a very tall order and not really achievable if England get men around the bat with our bowlers on form. The game is set up very nicely.
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Thankfully (though I don't want to be too presumptuous) the Bell fiasco doesn't ultimately look like it will be game changing. India would be rightly livid if they ultimately lost their no.1 status due to it.
I hope that -as Dravid says- the players in the dressing room felt uncomfortable and Strauss and Flowers input was largely inconsequential. Otherwise, it has connotations of the touring side being bullied into complying with the wishes of the hosts. England expects, and all that.
Plenty of questions about Asad Rauf, but was how close was the other umpire to the stumps? Maybe I'm missing something, but it happened at that end, so if it was out surely he would have been well placed to see it? It did seem that from his body language -and that of a fair few of the Indian side it must be said- that the over was called and they were all simply trundling off for the end of the session. It just doesn't sit right that Dhoni decided/ was coerciced into reversing the decision duriing the interval. Fair enough if he'd done it straight after the incident.
As for England, they look like they've come through another test of character. All out on the first day in bowler friendly conditions and a frustrating first two thirds of yesterday. Previously, when England won so many things needed to be in their favour; winning the toss, suitable overhead conditions, matchwinning contributions from star players et.c. Now they're just a good, resilient allround side.
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The pitch has become a lot easier to bat on so we need to give ourselves enough time to bowl them out. Ideally score quickly tomorrow morning, bat them out of the game and then give ourselves 5 sessions to finish them off.
I think this is the best all round England side I've seen. If they keep their focus they can dominate test cricket for the next 5 years.
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Kevin, technically he was out the appeal was reversed due to the spirit of the game rather than the letter f the law. It's part of the reason why I love cricket, no other sport worries about that stuff. A crucial test match in terms of the series and the rankings but fair play still prevailed.
I said to my lad at the time that I reckon the senior players must have had a word, hats off to them.
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The pitch has become a lot easier to bat on so we need to give ourselves enough time to bowl them out. Ideally score quickly tomorrow morning, bat them out of the game and then give ourselves 5 sessions to finish them off.
I think this is the best all round England side I've seen. If they keep their focus they can dominate test cricket for the next 5 years.
I dont think we will declare too soon. Watching all our Batsmen score runs comfortably we do not want to give their class Batsmen a chance. Saying that, our bowling attack is a street and a half ahead of theirs.
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Kevin, technically he was out the appeal was reversed due to the spirit of the game rather than the letter f the law. It's part of the reason why I love cricket, no other sport worries about that stuff. A crucial test match in terms of the series and the rankings but fair play still prevailed.
I said to my lad at the time that I reckon the senior players must have had a word, hats off to them.
That 5 minutes after tea was pure theatre. Umpires , indian team getting a verbal kicking. Then out walks Bell. I have never seen a crowds mood change so quickly. Only cricket i tell ya,only cricket.
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Kevin, technically he was out the appeal was reversed due to the spirit of the game rather than the letter f the law. It's part of the reason why I love cricket, no other sport worries about that stuff. A crucial test match in terms of the series and the rankings but fair play still prevailed.
I agree, to an extent.
I do think the umpires might have been a bit more decisive at the time too. They seemed as confused/ uncertain as the players.
Re. spirit of the game, it would have been nice to see Bell go up to Dhoni at the end of his knock and publicly acknowledge him, though maybe that would have been a bit too touchy feely.
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As has been said, Bell is a somewhat lucky boy as i'm sure under the same circumstances many teams wouldn't have agreed to his re-instatement (I don't think England would and I know Australia wouldn't).
But what a series so far, best since 2005 and just shows that Test Match Cricket is one of the best sporting formats going around. Two excellent teams going at ful throttle but still leaving room for the spirit of the game to be upheld.
The pitch has certainly got flatter at the game has gone on, the initial green grass has died and with every mow and brush there's less for the bowlers to work with. Having said that, a fifth day pitch is a fifth day pitch whatever the conditions so this is where Englands attack comes into it's own. Greame Swann will be the key, bowling a lot of overs at one end while we rotate the quicks.
Ideally, if we score another 130ish tomorrow (lead of 500) and get them in mid afternoon to give us the thick end of 5 sessions to bowl them out. If they were to pull that one off it'd be one of the all time great English Test Match wins.
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To declare overnight would be idiotic. Basically bat until either all out or tea tomorrow. If we somehow stick around until tea we'll have a lead of over 600 - something India would not be able to achieve in 4 sessions. Priority should be to make sure we cannot lose the match.
I'm not even sure Strauss is conservative enough to only feel comfortable with a 600 run lead. 520 dec - or all out, whichever happens sooner. If they can chase that down on a 4th and 5th day pitch (with Swann most likely coming more and more into things) good luck to 'em.
Still need to get them out again so you give yourself as long as possible to do that, knowing that Dravid, Sachin et al are more than capable of batting time.
Strauss might have been more conservative earlier into his captaincy, but in his defence, the better England have got as a unit the bolder he has been in the timing of his declarations.
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I hope that -as Dravid says- the players in the dressing room felt uncomfortable and Strauss and Flowers input was largely inconsequential. Otherwise, it has connotations of the touring side being bullied into complying with the wishes of the hosts.
I don't think India could possibly be bullied by any host nation. The BCCI wields a substantial amount of power within world cricket.
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I think that unless we get bowled out, we should just bat till lunch then declare.
With Prior, Bresnan, Broad and Swann the lead will be at 500 by that stage. 5 sessions to bowl India out would be ideal. It even allows you to have a bad session, and still have plenty of time. Absolutely no way India will get anywhere near that total.
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Where would you rank this England team?
I think they're better than 2004 by some distance.
I was a bit too young to remember any of the Botham or Gatting teams.
There was a comparison between the Ashes winning side of 2005 and the current team in the Times on Wednesday. Surprisingly more of the 2005 side were selected. If you exclude Strauss, Bell and KP who were in both sides, my comparison goes like this:
Trescothick for Cook
Vaughan for Trott (and he would be my captain)
Swann for Giles
Prior for Jones
Freddie for Broad
Jones for Tremlett/Bresnan/Finn
Harmison would get in the squad as would Colly.
For me the difference between England 2005 and England 2011 is a desire to kick on and be the best in the world. The 2005 side were guilty of resting on their laurels. The current side are hungry for more success.
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I agree, to an extent.
I do think the umpires might have been a bit more decisive at the time too. They seemed as confused/ uncertain as the players.
The umpires have to go by the letter of the law, Rauf knew he hadn't called 'over' and the Indians appealed, once it was ascertained that the ball did not go for four he had to give Bell out, no choice, it's the rule.
Luckily, cricket is unique in the sporting world in having the appeal system (something some people would like to see binned, including our own UKRedsox), so it makes it possible for a captain to say "No, on second thoughts we aren't asking for him to be out, he can play on." Without it Bell would have been out, and the rest of the series would have been played under a cloud of bad feeling and Dhoni and his team would have been slammed for being poor sportsmen and in Tabloid land no doubt, cheats. I'm sure the copy was being written through the tea interval and I can imagine what the headlines would have been.
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I fucking love test march cricket. I'm currently in central America and I've tried to explain it to north Americans and locals but I bore myself explaining the rules yet a series like this is immense. Yes it's five days of standing around, but each day breaks down... Blah blah blah you know... It simply is the most majestic sport.
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Re the debate of 2005 v 2011, I've done 3 or 4 combined teams now and still can't decide on who or what I think would be the best, look at the list of players to chose from -
Anderson*
Bell*
Bresnan
Broad
Collingwood
Cook
Finn
Flintoff
Giles
Harmison
Hoggard
G. Jones
S. Jones
Morgan
Pietersen*
Prior
Strauss*
Swann
Tremlett*
Trescothick
Trott
Overall I think the one I would settle for would be -
Strauss (2011 edition)
Cook
Vaughan (c)
Pietersen (2005 edition)
Bell (2011 edition)
Collingwood
Prior (wk)
Flintoff
Swann
Broad
Anderson
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Blowers........... "the sun is up there but its behind the clouds"
Thanks Henry, I thought that the sun hadn't risen today ::)
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What a series Broad is having. They should threaten to drop him more often.
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Huge wicket before lunch that.
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What odds on this not going to a fifth day?
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beautiful delivery from Jimmy to get Laxman. I love to see a stump cartwheeling across the pitch!
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What odds on this not going to a fifth day?
Even shorter now VVS is out !
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What odds on this not going to a fifth day?
Even shorter now VVS is out !
Bastard Paddy Power don't have it on their in play selections.
India have gone here.
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Blimey! 37-4! This is going alright now isn't it?
;D ;D
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Did someone order a collapse? All over them like a tramp on chips!
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This could be all over by tea at this rate.
55-6 and Bresnan on a hat trick when he starts his next over.
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This really is a fantastic performance by England. What a fabulous team.
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We are clearly the best side in the World, in all but name at the moment. We are completely dominating our direct competitors.
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India have been up against it in this series, due to a combination of England's drive and injuries + illness to key players at crucial times.
England should go on to close out the series with at least a 2 game margin and thus claim the no.1 spot. But India (and Sri Lanka for that matter) in their own back yard will be a different proposition altogether. Thing is, this side keep on facing down challenges and -lets be honest- they're doing it with a fair degree of style too.
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Day 5 tickets for the Edgbaston test are now on sale from www.edgbaston.com. They are £10 and non refundable if there is no play.
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India have been up against it in this series, due to a combination of England's drive and injuries + illness to key players at crucial times.
England should go on to close out the series with at least a 2 game margin and thus claim the no.1 spot. But India (and Sri Lanka for that matter) in their own back yard will be a different proposition altogether. Thing is, this side keep on facing down challenges and -lets be honest- they're doing it with a fair degree of style too.
I think we're in Asia for the winter. We're playing India and Sri Lanka, and I,m sure that we're playing Pakistan on neutral grounds.
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Isn't India for ODI only though?
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India need to just knuckle down for the next half hour so I can finish work and get to my car so I can listen to the end of the test on the way home.
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Isn't India for ODI only though?
Yes Bazz. Serves me right for not checking the itinerary!
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To win a game from 124 for 8 on the first day against the top ranked side in the world by over 300 is really impressive.
I've been very critical of Broad in the past but he's come of age in this series.
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I was expecting more of a fight from India, a poor showing from them really.
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England should go on to close out the series with at least a 2 game margin and thus claim the no.1 spot. But India (and Sri Lanka for that matter) in their own back yard will be a different proposition altogether.
I keep hearing this (mostly from India supporters at work!), but it goes both ways, India can't call themselves the best team in the World if they can't cope with pitches that aren't as flat as a witches tit.
England have now drawn in South Africa, beaten the Aussies comprehensively in their own backyard, stuffed Sri Lanka and are well on the way to a whitewash over the current No1 team, and I'd back our resilience and the fact we bat down to No11 to give it a really good go in India at the moment as well, especially as we now have the best spinner in Test Cricket.
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What a comprehensive victory by England. We outplayed India in every discipline.
We had the worst of the pitch on day one and yet still came out with a 319 run victory.
Man of the match will be difficult. Bresnan, Broad and Bell are all in wth a shout. Bresnan for me.
Interesting selection problem for the Edgbaston test which starts on Wednesday week. if Trott isn't fit we could move all the batsmen up a place and recall Tremlett. If Trott is fit, then Bresnan must keep his place. Tremlett has never let England down but Bresnan has just scored 90 and taken a 5-fer. A nice problem for the selectors.
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To win by that margin, after that start, is very impressive indeed.
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The a decent barometer of the progress made is increasingly less usage of that well know phrase 'same old England.'
As I mentioned earlier, even notable wins in the past (and I'd probably include the Ashes series clincher at the Oval in 2009) depended on favourable conditions and the rub of the green. All sides need a bit of luck. But winning in Australia was no fluke, nor was beating Sri Lanka and (thus far) India comprehensively.
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England should go on to close out the series with at least a 2 game margin and thus claim the no.1 spot. But India (and Sri Lanka for that matter) in their own back yard will be a different proposition altogether.
I keep hearing this (mostly from India supporters at work!), but it goes both ways, India can't call themselves the best team in the World if they can't cope with pitches that aren't as flat as a witches tit.
England have now drawn in South Africa, beaten the Aussies comprehensively in their own backyard, stuffed Sri Lanka and are well on the way to a whitewash over the current No1 team, and I'd back our resilience and the fact we bat down to No11 to give it a really good go in India at the moment as well, especially as we now have the best spinner in Test Cricket.
I completely agree, we have proved ourselves whenever we have had the opportunity. We smashed Australia over there and now we've thumped India twice. We are a very good side and particularly in the bowling department we have great depth. What a choice between Bres and Tremlett now. We battered India in this game and our spinner didn't take a wicket. Also India weren't that weakened particularly in the batting, Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman were all playing.
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Sums it up for me when Warne says the Aussies are now looking at England as the benchmark. They've been really excellent and don't sit on laurels...Would back them to do well in India...
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They remind me of the Aussies when they were the best team, totally ruthless, never beaten until the final run or wicket. Spot a weakness, exploit it to the full, see the opposition just start to flag or relax? Hit 'em with everything.
I thought we were getting there in 2005, but we took our eye off the ball and became complacent, but rather than revert to "same old England" we learned the lessons and came back stronger.
I'm very proud of this England team, they are a pleasure to watch, and it's even sweeter when you are my sort of age and have endured the horror shows we had to watch in just about every year since the mid-eighties.
Just watching the highlights, lovely moment when Scott Ellstone took that catch for Bresnan's five-fer after just dropping one the over before, he might never play for England properly but he'll dine out on that for a while.
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There are some very bitter Indian fans on Cricinfo, blaming their board and the IPL.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/content/current/story/525563.html?comments=all#ciHomeLogoholder
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They remind me of the Aussies when they were the best team, totally ruthless, never beaten until the final run or wicket. Spot a weakness, exploit it to the full, see the opposition just start to flag or relax? Hit 'em with everything.
I thought we were getting there in 2005, but we took our eye off the ball and became complacent, but rather than revert to "same old England" we learned the lessons and came back stronger.
I'm very proud of this England team, they are a pleasure to watch, and it's even sweeter when you are my sort of age and have endured the horror shows we had to watch in just about every year since the mid-eighties.
Just watching the highlights, lovely moment when Scott Ellstone took that catch for Bresnan's five-fer after just dropping one the over before, he might never play for England properly but he'll dine out on that for a while.
My dad took me to the Saturday of the Oval test from 1994 to 2004 and I saw some great days there. But that's what they were, great days against a backdrop of continued failure. I now watch England against anyone and believe we'll win, which is such a turnaround. It's like on Friday in spite of our terrible start, I always thought we'd find a way to fight back. I never expected we'd win so emphatically, but I believe in this team. I don't just mean the 11 either, I believe we have a great pool of players who can come in.
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Without doubt they are a great team, but significantly I think our biggest strength is the quality of our squad. Having strength in depth suggests some sort of structural change rather than a couple of once in a generation type players carrying the team.
Which begs the question, what have the ECB done to improve our chances? I do not following cricket close enough, especially at county level, to know, so I was hoping sone of you guys could provide your theories. Some factors I have thought about:
1 central contracts
2 more overseas players (although I'm not sure that's true - hick, caddick, lamb etc)
3 the rest of the world becoming obsessed with the shorter forms of cricket
4 simply lucky
5 sky getting the TV rights leading to more investment in the game
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Without doubt they are a great team, but significantly I think our biggest strength is the quality of our squad. Having strength in depth suggests some sort of structural change rather than a couple of once in a generation type players carrying the team.
Which begs the question, what have the ECB done to improve our chances? I do not following cricket close enough, especially at county level, to know, so I was hoping sone of you guys could provide your theories. Some factors I have thought about:
1 central contracts
2 more overseas players (although I'm not sure that's true - hick, caddick, lamb etc)
3 the rest of the world becoming obsessed with the shorter forms of cricket
4 simply lucky
5 sky getting the TV rights leading to more investment in the game
I think that Central Contracts have played a huge part. There is a professionalism about the England that was not there 10 years ago. Successive captains (Hussain, Vaughan, Strauss) have instilled a fantastic work ethic. The whole set up from the kit man to the support staff are geared up to getting it right where it matters, on the pitch. The Central Contracts have meant that the focus is on the England Squad and their receovery after games etc. In a way alot of sports have become more scientific over the the 10/15 years.
There are drawbacks to the contracts issue; if you use Pietersen as an example, he played about 4 times for Hampshire after he broke into the England squad. They do deprive county followers the chance to see the best players. Some are more comitted to their county. Ian Bell is a good example as he will turn out for the Bears whenever he can.
There are probably fewer overseas players in the county game now and certainly fewer Kolpak players. The county game is skint and only the counties that stages tests really generate any meaningful income. Central Contracts mean that England players rarely play a county game. The readmission of South Africa into mainstream sport after their ban means that fewer Saffers are plying their trade over here. There has also been a reduction in racial quotas which means they play in SA and not always over here.
There is an element of luck in what has happened. England's rise has coincided with both India and the Aussies coming to the end of golden periods in their respective histories. The Aussies have lost at least 6 world class players through retirement, India's stellar batting line up will soon begin to break up. A series like this current one will only hasten the break. Cricket, like football is cyclical.
I don't think that the Sky money has a lot to do with it. They've had sole TV rights for 6 years and yes there has been some investment at grass roots level. It's too soon to see any benefit fom this at the highest level.
All in all, it's a great time to be a England fan!
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Very proud to see Trott and Bell in the current Top 5 ICC ranked batsmen !
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By 'more overseas players' do you mean foreign born players playing for England?
You may have a point, four of the XI at Trent Bridge were born in South Africa (Strauss, Prior, Trott and Pietersen), but I see it as a good thing that they preferred to play for England rather than SA who were certainly a better team than England when three out of the four began their test careers.
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Harbhajan is out of the Edgbaston test
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/content/current/story/525791.html
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I did mean overseas players being selected for england rather than in the county games but it's largely not relevant. The reason for my question was to try and identify what the England cricket team was doing right (or other nations were doing wrong?) in order to identify the key thing we'd need to repeat in the future or apply to other sports.
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I did mean overseas players being selected for england rather than in the county games but it's largely not relevant. The reason for my question was to try and identify what the England cricket team was doing right (or other nations were doing wrong?) in order to identify the key thing we'd need to repeat in the future or apply to other sports.
I think aside from having a pool of high quality players to choose from, its a lot to do with the high attention to detail. From allowing Strauss to play for another county in order to find form, to Cook being the only player allowed to shine the ball as he sweats the least.
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I did mean overseas players being selected for england rather than in the county games but it's largely not relevant. The reason for my question was to try and identify what the England cricket team was doing right (or other nations were doing wrong?) in order to identify the key thing we'd need to repeat in the future or apply to other sports.
I think aside from having a pool of high quality players to choose from, its a lot to do with the high attention to detail. From allowing Strauss to play for another county in order to find form, to Cook being the only player allowed to shine the ball as he sweats the least.
I knew that Cook was the designated shiner, but I didn't know why until today when I read it in the Torygraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/8677394/Englands-cricket-secret.html
An interesting article and answers some of Dante's questions too.
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As it stands, and assuming Trott isn't fit but Tremlett will be, I'd bring the latter in for the former. It will put a bit more pressure on the top 6, but Bresnan & Broad are both in form with the bat. Also, it's less work for the bowlers. All of those players in Test form, and I think it's less of a gamble than picking, say, Bopara.
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I'd bring in Hildreth for Trott. He's an excellent player.
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I'd bring in Hildreth for Trott. He's an excellent player.
James Taylor gets my vote............
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Yeah he's very good too. Still only 20/21 i think
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i think i would go with a second spinner. I think Monty might be the top wiket taker this season and Patel has taken plenty of wickets this season at Edgbaston . On second thoughts we are 2 up with 2 to play. We don't want to lose as we need to win this series by 2 games to get to be number one in the world. Play a batsman. Bit like bringing on an extra defender when you are one nil up with 15 mins to go
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As it stands, and assuming Trott isn't fit but Tremlett will be, I'd bring the latter in for the former. It will put a bit more pressure on the top 6, but Bresnan & Broad are both in form with the bat. Also, it's less work for the bowlers. All of those players in Test form, and I think it's less of a gamble than picking, say, Bopara.
I tend to agree.
In a way, it would be a fudge. Not being able to decide between Bresnan and Tremlett so go for both. But most of the lower order can bat -and bat well. A new batsmen coming in on Test debut might be out first ball -or weigh in with low scores, making the endeavour futile.
You'd be relying on the top order to plug the gap -and it would most likely mean Bell coming in at no.3. He has the makings of a decent no 3, but it's just never really clicked for him at that slot before -and he's had plenty of opportunities over the years. I'd be wary of going that route -certainly on a longterm basis. Having a batsman that good coming in lower down the order has been a big plus for England over the last 12-18 months, why disrupt a winning formula too much. But on a short term basis -and with England in a strong position in the series- maybe, as a one off.
I'd probably leave it till the last possible minute before deciding though, look at the state of the pitch, the weather forecast and so on.
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As it stands, and assuming Trott isn't fit but Tremlett will be, I'd bring the latter in for the former. It will put a bit more pressure on the top 6, but Bresnan & Broad are both in form with the bat. Also, it's less work for the bowlers. All of those players in Test form, and I think it's less of a gamble than picking, say, Bopara.
I tend to agree.
In a way, it would be a fudge. Not being able to decide between Bresnan and Tremlett so go for both. But most of the lower order can bat -and bat well. A new batsmen coming in on Test debut might be out first ball -or weigh in with low scores, making the endeavour futile.
You'd be relying on the top order to plug the gap -and it would most likely mean Bell coming in at no.3. He has the makings of a decent no 3, but it's just never really clicked for him at that slot before -and he's had plenty of opportunities over the years. I'd be wary of going that route -certainly on a longterm basis. Having a batsman that good coming in lower down the order has been a big plus for England over the last 12-18 months, why disrupt a winning formula too much. But on a short term basis -and with England in a strong position in the series- maybe, as a one off.
I'd probably leave it till the last possible minute before deciding though, look at the state of the pitch, the weather forecast and so on.
The Ian Bell that has batted number 3 in the past is a different player to the Ian Bell that went in at 3 in the second innings at Trent Bridge, and potentially would make the position his own. He played one of his best ever test innings.
I agree to a point with the play Tremlett and Bresnan logic if Trott is unfit but feel that we know what our squad bowlers can do. Time to blood another batsman as we did with Trott in the final test of the 2009 Ashes series. I'd go for Taylor from Leicestershire who is captaining the England Lions against Sri Lanka A this week. I also think that Morgan's position could be under threat. He is an excellent batsman and I enjoy his unorthodox technique. He really struggles against the new ball and as a number 5/6 test batsman he should face a new ball relatively often. Short to medium term Morgan could be another Bopara so give Taylor a chance.
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Anyone seen the current score at the Rose Bowl?
Yorkshire 532 all out
Hampshire 533 for 2
It can't be just me who believes that counties should be docked points for producing pitches that kill any chance of interesting cricket.
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Anyone seen the current score at the Rose Bowl?
Yorkshire 532 all out
Hampshire 533 for 2
It can't be just me who believes that counties should be docked points for producing pitches that kill any chance of interesting cricket.
I said exactly this just after Warwickshire were docked the eight points earlier this season despite the fact that Worcs scored 375 in their first innings and Warwicks scored 461 in their second!
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I did mean overseas players being selected for england rather than in the county games but it's largely not relevant. The reason for my question was to try and identify what the England cricket team was doing right (or other nations were doing wrong?) in order to identify the key thing we'd need to repeat in the future or apply to other sports.
I think aside from having a pool of high quality players to choose from, its a lot to do with the high attention to detail. From allowing Strauss to play for another county in order to find form, to Cook being the only player allowed to shine the ball as he sweats the least.
I knew that Cook was the designated shiner, but I didn't know why until today when I read it in the Torygraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/8677394/Englands-cricket-secret.html
An interesting article and answers some of Dante's questions too.
Good article that. Thanks.
When you consider that both this England team and woodwards rugby teams appear to have both achieved their success by having an almost anal attention to detail, it obviously must have it's benefits. When you look at mourinho's match scouting reports compiled by chelsea's new manager and there does appear to be some consistencies when looking at successful teams.
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Ravi into the squad, he really needs to prove himself if he plays.
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Ravi into the squad, he really needs to prove himself if he plays.
Dissapointed by that selection James Taylor is the form batsman in the country @ present moment
Bopara is the safe option and is in more for his bowling than anything else
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I'd have like to have seen Taylor or Carberry brought in ahead of Bopara.
Maybe selecting Bopara for the squad is a sign that they'll back the batting of Bresnan/Broad and play an extra bowler.
There would have been no point bring Taylor or someone else new into the squad and them not playing them. However, leaving Bopara out of the actual XI wouldn't be a problem.
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I think the only change will be Bopara for Trott, with Bell to bat @ 3 and Bopara @ 6
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Zaheer only bowled 3 overs in the tour match at Northampton before going off. Must be a doubt for Edgbaston.
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I think the only change will be Bopara for Trott, with Bell to bat @ 3 and Bopara @ 6
I'm not so sure; why pick 5 quicks if we're only going to play 3? Bopara & Finn will be the spare wheels.
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I think the only change will be Bopara for Trott, with Bell to bat @ 3 and Bopara @ 6
I'm not so sure; why pick 5 quicks if we're only going to play 3? Bopara & Finn will be the spare wheels.
I cant see us suddenly changing and playing 5 bowlers, Finn is only in as cover for Tremlett ie a tall bowler
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But, as it stands, Tremlett isn't in the side so why have cover for him?
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Zaheer ruled out of the series
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/content/current/story/526228.html
We've got to go all out for a 4-0 series win now.
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But, as it stands, Tremlett isn't in the side so why have cover for him?
I presume as they havnt seen the pitch yet they are covering all the options.....
Zaheer Khan out of rest of tour
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Tremlett out of test. I assume that the only change from the Trent Bridge XI to be Bopara for Trott.
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Won the toss and batting. Good toss to win, looks to be a green tinge to the pitch.
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morning chaps hope todays game can lift a little of the gloom in the city
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morning chaps hope todays game can lift a little of the gloom in the city
Morning Colhint. I read your post in a faux Richie Benaud accent!
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Great start for Broad.
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Just been offered a ticket for Saturday.
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morning chaps hope todays game can lift a little of the gloom in the city
Morning Colhint. I read your post in a faux Richie Benaud accent!
I tried that now you said it, it works doesn't it haha
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Important getting Gambir there, well done Bres.
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Tendulkar gone. Broad is in a rich vein of form with bat and ball
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SGT at edgbaston
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75-4
Fantastic morning session from England.
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Beautiful ball by Bresnan to get Dravid on the stroke of lunch. Great morning for England.
I've got hospitality tickets on Saturday in the Jaguar Suite. I hope the game lasts that long!
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Not a bad mornings work at all!
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Cracking morning, well done lads.
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Not a bad mornings work at all!
Yeah, I'll settle for that!
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Bro I suggest you ask them to slow down a bit, I was looking forward to all that lovely free goodies ALL DAY Saturday!!
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Need to get hold of this partnership now.
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I dont think I will be going on Sunday............:-(
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I wouldn't mind breaking this stand.
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Still in a great position but that partnership was annoying.
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India's afternoon session?
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205-8
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I still think it's very much our day at the moment, just need to get rid of these last two.
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India's afternoon session?
Not when we took 4 wickets no.
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Bro I suggest you ask them to slow down a bit, I was looking forward to all that lovely free goodies ALL DAY Saturday!!
Pray for rain ;-)
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Hmmm need these guys out.
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Dhoni gone, phew!
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224 for 9 come on England finish them off.
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Great catch by Cook, don't think he knew a lot about it though!
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Wa-hey whadda ya know 224 all out
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50 for Strauss, and ably backed up by a watchful Cook, looking good.
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Good day for England. Even the 8th wicket stand of 84 didn't really detract from a good team performance.
I felt the bowlers lost a little discipline during the stand but ultimately after a strong opening partnership, we're well on top.
I'd like a 1st innings of at least 600 so I've got some chance to see some cricket on Saturday!
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The bowlers and also odd field placings. Anyway 224 is brilliant, and we're only 140 behind. I'm looking for a big first innings lead...
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This was a great day for us, we look really good.
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Light rain in Birmingham at the moment so unlikely to start on time today.
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Yep, looks gloomy doesn't it?
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Aggers has just Tweeted that it's hammering down at Edgbaston
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Aggers has just Tweeted that it's hammering down at Edgbaston
I'm at home in Kings Norton, about 4 miles away, and it's stopped here but still very grey. The one glimmer of hope is that it is very windy so there's a chance that it can blow over.
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Start at 11.30 if there's no more rain
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The ball that CMJ & Vaughny were just talking about
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Great morning for us, looking very strong.
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Decent morning. Bat once, bat long and get them back in.
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mr Bell is in
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Strauss was out off a no-ball. I've never seen a slow bowler bowl as many no-balls as Mishra.
Bell is looking in fantastic touch. I'd like to see him get a ton. No Bears batsman has scored a test century whilst playing for England at Edgbaston.
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Bell gone, Cook's 100 was very gritty well done.
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Good to see a Villa shirt hanging-up in the England changing room - Belly's I'm guessing!
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Good quick 50 from KP.
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Diabolical fielding by India, Morgan given two lives. Great from England though.
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The only way we won't win is if it pisses down or if Cook looks like getting a ridiculous score (400+) and we just carry on batting.
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Well done England keep it up tomorrow
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Strauss was out off a no-ball. I've never seen a slow bowler bowl as many no-balls as Mishra.
Aye.
I really hope it's just nervousness/ bad technique.
Ridiculous for a slow bowler.
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On twitter, Vaughan reckons we'll get 700 and Warne says 800+!
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I have a good feeling about this test series 8)
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A question for anyone actually at the ground.
Is this as dull as its sounding on the radio ?
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I'd say it's very much in a holding pattern.
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Coming off for bad light is mental.
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There'll be a riot at the cricket if the umpires make any more stupid bad light decisions!
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There'll be a riot at the cricket if the umpires make any more stupid bad light decisions!
They might offer it to the batsmen, doesn't mean they have to accept it. It dies look a bit black over Bill's mother's though.
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Good century Morgan, got to take your chance when you're given a couple of lives.
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I've got to say England are so much in the ascendant here, just piling up runs, it's actually a bit boring. And I never thought I'd say that about a match where England were 600-3!
Edit:OK, 600-4!
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There'll be a riot at the cricket if the umpires make any more stupid bad light decisions!
They might offer it to the batsmen, doesn't mean they have to accept it. It dies look a bit black over Bill's mother's though.
That doesn't apply any more Chris. It's now purely down to the umpires. Sadly.
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There'll be a riot at the cricket if the umpires make any more stupid bad light decisions!
They might offer it to the batsmen, doesn't mean they have to accept it. It dies look a bit black over Bill's mother's though.
That doesn't apply any more Chris. It's now purely down to the umpires. Sadly.
Thanks Nick, I didn't realise that. I do wish they'd stop messing with the rules.
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Just don't understand it at all. Bad light was supposed to be a danger thing, so surely the batsmen are the best judge as to their own safety?
The only thing I can think might have triggered it would be situations like that Test in Pakistan where England played on in the dark to win it. Otherwise I'm scratching my head over it.
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I think it's a change for the better really. Batsmen very cynically manipulated the light in the past. Now, you might argue that Dhoni was doing the same by bringing his pacemen on when he knew the light was iffy but they were back out inside 10 minutes and wouldn't have gone off at all if the floodlights had been working.
To be honest, I think 'dangerous' should be taken out of the equation altogether and the umpires should only bring the players off if it is literally too dark to play. I don't think I've ever heard of a batsman who genuinely thought he was in danger because of the light. They used to take the light because of the match situation, not the danger. When all test match venues get floodlights it'll all be a thing of the past anyway, hopefully.
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The collapse is on.
Typical England ;)
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I think it's a change for the better really. Batsmen very cynically manipulated the light in the past.
I don't follow the logic on that at all. The bad light decision is triggered by an umpire reading a light meter, not by any theatrics from a batsman. If that had been offered to the batsmen they would not have gone off. What benefit did the game or the spectators gain?
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The only thing I can think might have triggered it would be situations like that Test in Pakistan where England played on in the dark to win it. Otherwise I'm scratching my head over it.
I think Steve Bucknor did that to teach Moin Khan a lesson, who'd been time-wasting like mad earlier in the day.
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I think it's a change for the better really. Batsmen very cynically manipulated the light in the past.
I don't follow the logic on that at all. The bad light decision is triggered by an umpire reading a light meter, not by any theatrics from a batsman. If that had been offered to the batsmen they would not have gone off. What benefit did the game or the spectators gain?
In the past, if the umpires thought the light was getting bad, they'd check it on their meters and if it had reached a certain measure, they'd offer it to the batsmen.
In that situation, what I'm saying is that the batsmen would go off if they were struggling in the match and stay on if it was advantageous to do so. In other words it had nothing to do with being in danger.
Now, to remove that gamesmanship, the umpires bring take everyone off if the light has reached a certain measure and they themselves feel the players are in danger. It's still relatively new and it'll take a few years to bed down properly, as they get used to make the judgements, but I think it's a better system.
I think it would be a better system still if they removed the 'danger' element altogether, because it's a nonsense.
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Bad light again. Truly stupid and indefensible.
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Bad light again. Truly stupid and indefensible.
Yep. It's not dangerous, the lights are on - they should be playing. The 'danger' part of the rule has to be removed ASAP.
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Bad light again. Truly stupid and indefensible.
Agreed, I'm 4 miles away and the light is perfectly fine and my floodlights are rubbish.
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700. Phenomenal.
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Insane against the supposed number 1 side in the World. Now hurry up Cook get your 300 and declare.
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did Gower just fart then?
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Brilliant from Cooky, unlucky he didn't get his 300 but fantastic innings.
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did Gower just fart then?
I doubt it, but if he did it would smell of roses.
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A question for anyone actually at the ground.
Is this as dull as its sounding on the radio ?
I've been watching this all day, it's been great.
Gutted for Cook, to be so close to 300. And he's back on the field already - take note, Sehwag!
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Sehwag king pair!!!!
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What a beauty. Christ almighty that's gotta hurt. Fielding forever and bat for two deliveries.
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Sehwag king pair!!!!
Good! Suits his attitude; his teammates must hate him. All that time stropping off the field or lazily fielding.
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What a beauty. Christ almighty that's gotta hurt. Fielding forever and bat for two deliveries.
Well Sehwag didn't field forever!
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Remains to be seen how the second innings goes but apart from Dravid and Kumar none of the Indians have looked remotely interested in this series. I guess with all the money they make from the IPL and domestic endorsements, Test cricket is something of a long, boring and difficult distraction.
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I've got 2 spare tickets in the Eric Hollies for tomorrow if anyone wants them, or knows anyone that wants them... £48 each face value but £75 the pair for you lovely people.
If anyone's interested just pm me tonight...
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Remains to be seen how the second innings goes but apart from Dravid and Kumar none of the Indians have looked remotely interested in this series. I guess with all the money they make from the IPL and domestic endorsements, Test cricket is something of a long, boring and difficult distraction.
I think Tendulkar has cared, just not been in good form.
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I think Tendulkar has cared, just not been in good form.
Maybe. His body language, wandering around along the boundary, hasn't been good. He hasn't looked particularly engaged with it to me.
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Know some people going tomorrow. For their sake, if nothing else, I hope India aren't simply going to capitulate.
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Remains to be seen how the second innings goes but apart from Dravid and Kumar none of the Indians have looked remotely interested in this series. I guess with all the money they make from the IPL and domestic endorsements, Test cricket is something of a long, boring and difficult distraction.
I think Tendulkar has cared, just not been in good form.
And Dhoni
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big spin for Swanny and KP.
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Got tickets for tomorrow. Should wrap it up by mid afternoon and watch the villa in town with any luck.
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I don't think it's about not caring from India. Absolutely anyone would be demoralised fielding while your opponents rack up 700 odd. Must be hard to keep the body language good for, what was it, 6, 7 sessions?
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I don't think it's about not caring from India. Absolutely anyone would be demoralised fielding while your opponents rack up 700 odd. Must be hard to keep the body language good for, what was it, 6, 7 sessions?
They've been like it for virtually the entire series though. Very unprofessional.
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Is anyone a Member at edgbaston? I had a great time on wednesday watching england and toying with the idea of getting membership to the new pavilion. £200 a year, all the warwickshire matches and priority on england test matches. Thinking it will be a great way to spend the summer months next year.
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Hopefully India put up a little bit of a fight so i get to see some cricket on Sunday... Can't see it tho, England are absolutely teaching them a lesson. Good to see the Indian press giving England a tiny bit of praise amongst the vitriol for their own team.
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Is anyone a Member at edgbaston? I had a great time on wednesday watching england and toying with the idea of getting membership to the new pavilion. £200 a year, all the warwickshire matches and priority on england test matches. Thinking it will be a great way to spend the summer months next year.
The in laws have a 6 year membership in the new stand and its a good deal for the amount of cricket you get. I go along on their ticket when one of them can't go and im not working. They get me the Test tickets and sometimes get a bit of a discount. If you have the time to go and can get your money's worth out of it then get one as really are worth it.
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Is anyone a Member at edgbaston? I had a great time on wednesday watching england and toying with the idea of getting membership to the new pavilion. £200 a year, all the warwickshire matches and priority on england test matches. Thinking it will be a great way to spend the summer months next year.
If I move back to the Midlands, as seems likely, then I'll probably go for it.
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19 year waiting list for lords too i see. If i join Edgbaston now and get into cricket big time like i think i am starting to, if i take early retirement it will be just in time for me to join lords too ha! Now thats how to spend your summer when retired!!
Thinking i'll definitely get one for next year. Good value for money thats for sure. New pavilion is a lovely stand
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Gambir gone!
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Dravid gone!
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Dravid hit his boot lace, rather than the ball.
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Laxman gone!
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Laxman gone!
To an absolute beauty, Anderson is bowling superbly this morning.
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Yep perfect lines and good movement.
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Raina out LBW.
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Unlucky Sachin, would have liked to see him get 100 today
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Tendulkar run out backing up at the non-striker's end. Shame.
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Unlucky for him he looked good.
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Mishra gone
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Eight down. Broad gets Kumar.
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Sharma goes leg before to Broad. One to go.
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Number 1 in the World, brilliant!
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A proper trouncing
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Had a fantastic day at Edgbaston yesterday, the atmosphere was great and to see England achieve number one test status is up there with my favourite sporting moments.
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The atmosphere was something else, I found myself watching the crowd as much as the cricket. It's the first time I've ever laughed at Mr Blobby.
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Well played England, great win.
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The atmosphere was something else, I found myself watching the crowd as much as the cricket. It's the first time I've ever laughed at Mr Blobby.
Snap. I thought the non-cricket highlights were the Gorillas chasing the guy in the banana costume, and the spiderman chap climbing the pole whilst being watched by the police and stewards.
Very disappointed not to see Saachin get his hundred, he looked in great form. My old man nipped to the bookies as soon as he got to 20 as he was convinced he'd get there.
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The atmosphere was something else, I found myself watching the crowd as much as the cricket. It's the first time I've ever laughed at Mr Blobby.
Very disappointed not to see Saachin get his hundred, he looked in great form. My old man nipped to the bookies as soon as he got to 20 as he was convinced he'd get there.
He probably would have got a 100! I'm still not convinced by the run out despite seeing it numerous times!
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The atmosphere was something else, I found myself watching the crowd as much as the cricket. It's the first time I've ever laughed at Mr Blobby.
Very disappointed not to see Saachin get his hundred, he looked in great form. My old man nipped to the bookies as soon as he got to 20 as he was convinced he'd get there.
That was a strange one, everyone me included hoping their best player wasn't given out, but the line is out so he had to go. At lunchtime I wished I'd followed my instinct and put a bet on the game finishing before 3.10pm.
So, I still await a full day's test cricket at Edgbaston. However, I have to say, the after match drink in Moseley followed by Hockley till the witching hour made the whole day more than bearable.
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The atmosphere was something else, I found myself watching the crowd as much as the cricket. It's the first time I've ever laughed at Mr Blobby.
Very disappointed not to see Saachin get his hundred, he looked in great form. My old man nipped to the bookies as soon as he got to 20 as he was convinced he'd get there.
He probably would have got a 100! I'm still not convinced by the run out despite seeing it numerous times!
Even if he got his bat down in time it was on the line and not over it, the line belongs to the umpire therefore he was out.
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Its being reported that Jimmy Anderson has an injury.
I'd give both him and Broad a rest for the final test and bring in Onions and Finn
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If there's even a remote doubt about Jimmy, why risk him? Straight swap for Onions. However, I doubt Broad will be rested considering how much cricket he's missed in the last 8 months or so.
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good rest jimmy, play onions, great for the bears
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I thought Geoffrey Boycott's grannie was going to bat at No 7 with no pads on - just to prove the point about how poor the Indian bowling is.
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I can't believe there are people who would choose to spend a day watching Test cricket and yet don't know to keep still behind the bowlers arm. That was pretty much the first thing my old man taught me when he first took me to Edgbaston in 1981.
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Struggling to see how India are going to take a wicket here, barring a brainmelt from England.
There, that's put the mockers on it nicely.
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I can't believe there are people who would choose to spend a day watching Test cricket and yet don't know to keep still behind the bowlers arm. That was pretty much the first thing my old man taught me when he first took me to Edgbaston in 1981.
I agree. Annoys the fuck out of me. The Aussies were terrible for it, moving around during the over. Stewards should be stopping this.
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Very sleepy session that was.
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Here's a blog from the BBC to fill the interval. I asked why England had got so good recently and many theories were put forward. More here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/samsheringham/2011/08/englands_unsung_heroes.html
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Pissing it down.
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Rain delays on TMS continue to be excellent entertainment.
Tuffers and Freddie in the booth
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Let's hope we get a full days play. We could be on a large sum of runs if we do.
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Full days for the rest of the Test would be good.
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Not a good start, Cook gone.
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Instant Sharma.
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Strauss gone now!
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Vaughny "ringer" story earlier would have been better if he'd brought it up with Aggers or Simon Mann. CMJ comes across as a bit more serious.
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Much better from India today.
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Well played Belly,
He don't half make it look easy at times.
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Well done to Belly the Villan
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Played Belly indeed!
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Cracking effort by Bell and KP, hope KP gets his century now.
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David Cameron enjoying a day out at the cricket.
Don't begrudge him, thinking up all those recent soundbites and rhetoric has to be tiring.
Enjoy your day off Dave.
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A ton for each. Another big un on here.
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We could easily rack up over a thousand if we batted long enough.
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Build up a huge score to further demoralise them and then let the bowlers do their stuff.
I read somewhere that in this series our bowlers have scored more runs than the much vaunted Indian batting line up. I don't think that stat will change during this test.
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Great partnership, well done KP and Belly
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Excellent knock KP.
Nightwatchman at this stage is beyond ridiculous though.
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Excellent knock KP.
Nightwatchman at this stage is beyond ridiculous though.
I disagree. Morgan and Bopara will have sat in their pads for 6 or 7 hours today. All too often the next batsman in after a big stand is broken is out cheaply. It's a good call to give Morgan and Bopara a fresh start/wait tomorrow especially as Jimmy is a capable nightwatchman.
Another great day for England and here's hoping Bell can get his 200 tomorrow and then some!
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Excellent knock KP.
Nightwatchman at this stage is beyond ridiculous though.
I disagree. Morgan and Bopara will have sat in their pads for 6 or 7 hours today. All too often the next batsman in after a big stand is broken is out cheaply. It's a good call to give Morgan and Bopara a fresh start/wait tomorrow especially as Jimmy is a capable nightwatchman.
Another great day for England and here's hoping Bell can get his 200 tomorrow and then some!
Problem comes though if Anderson stays in for 30 minutes or so in the morning, scratching around and our run rate drops.
I take your point about Morgan / Bopara having to wait a long time, but I think I could bat for 15 minutes against that attack.
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As Bumble was heard to say in the SKy booth, Bop should have piped up and said "if Eoin doesn't want to go in, I will".
I can understand sending in a nightwatchman if there's under 200 on the board and you're facing Warney on a turner, but with 400+ against the current Indian bowlers? What's the point ?
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Anyone prepared to admit that its actually quite boring watching England destroy teams?
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Anyone prepared to admit that its actually quite boring watching England destroy teams?
Not in the slightest.
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Anyone prepared to admit that its actually quite boring watching England destroy teams?
Nope could watch it 24 hours a day.
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Another flawless innings from Belly. It's a shame he doesn't get the credit he deserves in England.
Btw, Steve Waugh never used a nightwatchman when he was captain of Aus. I don't see the point in it, surely a number 5/6 would be desperate to get out there as soon as possible against such a poor attack. Especially with 400 odd already on the board.
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Anyone prepared to admit that its actually quite boring watching England destroy teams?
No. It's such a pleasure to watch. I've been a cricket fan for over 30 years and have seen us capitulate time and time again. We were at times awful. To witness the renaissance in English test cricket has been wonderful. Long overdue and long may it last.
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Totally agree. I spent the best part of 30 years watching us get mullered by all and sundry, so now the boot's on the other foot I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts.
Reading the Cricket Australia post-mortem today just added to the pleasure of it all. A lengthy document spelling out exactly why Australia are so shit.
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If we can dominate as the West Indians of the 80s or the Aussies of the last fifteen years did, it would be fantastic from the point of view of knowing that we're number one, but inevitably with time it would become all too predictable. That's the time when complacency sets in and the big fall is just round the corner.
I'd actually rather it was nip-and-tuck home and away between the three teams for whom Test Cricket actually means something - South Africa, Australia and us - and with India and Sri Lanka remaining really difficult tours for everyone outside of the sub-continent. That's how Test Cricket will survive until the Twenty20 bubble bursts.
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Reading the Cricket Australia post-mortem today just added to the pleasure of it all. A lengthy document spelling out exactly why Australia are so shit.
Yes it truely is isn't it. The press conference basically said 'it'll get alot worse before it get's better' with 'the quote of 'no signs of real improvements for 18 months'' in regards to their structure - they really know how to be down on themselves. The fact that England is at NO 1 just deflates them evern more.
I've watched a lot of this series as it's on live here and England have done everything required. I think the Indians realised prettyt early that without Zaheer they were massively in the shit and dropped their heads - good teams will pulverise you if you do that in any sport and that's how it's proved.
Shame in a way as a fuller fit and focused Indian side could have provided for a great Series. Not complaining though, as an England fan it can't get any better.
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I'd actually rather it was nip-and-tuck home and away between the three teams for whom Test Cricket actually means something - South Africa, Australia and us - .
Australia will come again and have some terrific young prospects, particularly in the bowling department. It's still a while off though.
The Safas are the ones right now, Steyn, Morkel and the spinner (name escapes me) are formidible attack. Kallis is probably the best allround Cricketer of all time and they have a ballanced batting line up. Next Summer they tour England. Let's beat them all.
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The Safas are the ones right now, Steyn, Morkel and the spinner (name escapes me) are formidible attack.
Imran Tahir. Was at Warwicks last season.
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I'd actually rather it was nip-and-tuck home and away between the three teams for whom Test Cricket actually means something - South Africa, Australia and us - .
Australia will come again and have some terrific young prospects, particularly in the bowling department. It's still a while off though.
The Safas are the ones right now, Steyn, Morkel and the spinner (name escapes me) are formidible attack. Kallis is probably the best allround Cricketer of all time and they have a ballanced batting line up. Next Summer they tour England. Let's beat them all.
I agree but SA don't have the strength in depth that we do.
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Anyone prepared to admit that its actually quite boring watching England destroy teams?
Actually yes, a bit.
I thought my Aussie mate was just rubbing it in further when he said the 5-0 whitewash in 06/07 was a bit disappointing to him -as he wanted a more even contest.
But I get what he means now. You want a series with a bit of needle, a match defining session and a bit of drama. This is a lot like watching the Aussies pulverise the Windies and many other weak nations at home post 2000. I actually find myself wanting things to go the oppositions way, just to even it up a bit.
Credit to England though, winning as many tests as they have in a row -and many of them by an innings- is no fluke. Everyone has chipped in too -it's not as if a stellar run of form by a KP or a Swann has carried the side. Nullify KP and Cook, Trott or Bell have all stepped up. Swann isn't in the game > the seamers take care of business anyway.
Relentless, is probably the most fitting description.
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The difference between England and the rest of the Test Nations is the strength in depth we have. Look at some of the players we have that aren't playing in this test - Trott, Tremlett, Finn, Davies and Panesar (still a very good spinner). Add to them some of the younger players coming through (Woakes, Taylor, Kieswetter, Dernbach etc). As has been shown, take Trott out of this team and Bell can step up to Number 3 and post back to back centuries. Take someone like Kallis, Zaheer, Watson et al out of their respective nations and they have nobody to step up to the plate.
On the point somebody raised about Bell not getting the laudits he deserves in England I take it you don't read much cricket press or listen to the commentators, all of whom say he is by far the best technically gifted player around today.
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Morgan goes for 1, Bopara's chance now.
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I really hope Bopara gets some runs.
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Well done Belly, 200.
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Brilliant innings by Bell. A fantastic knock.
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Weather looks likely to rob us of a 4-0 whitewash.
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Bye bye Sehwag
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Another wonderful days cricket for England. 103 - 5, I would think that India will be following on by midday tomorrow.
The test should end tomorrow and we don't play another until January. I'm going to experience withdrawl symptoms! I don't mind ODI's but I much prefer the tests.
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Quality bowling performance yet again from England.
The intensity and skill levels were bang on. Swann bowled beautifully. I almost felt sorry for Raina the way Swann was toying with him.
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India 3 down following on. Massive turn from Swann to bowl Sehwag.
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Sorry 2 down.
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Swann is bowling magnificently in this innings.
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Another one gone, great bowling from Jimmy. We are unrelenting, it must be a nightmare to play against this attack.
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Have to say that Dravids knock was one of the best hundreds I've seen.
He really has been a lone hand in Indias line up.
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The weather is set fair and the pitch is turning. Swann has a busy day ahead of him.
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A Tendulkar century followed by a clatter of wickets would be perfect for everyone.
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Important things that I have learned today.................................
Geoffrey Boycott has never owned a pair of jeans
Geoffrey Boycott has never owned a pair of flip-flops
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Sachin out for 91
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Giving Sachin out LBW on 91 takes some bottle but DRS shows that the Umpire got it right
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But not quite as much bottle as it would have taken were the match being played at the Wankhede Stadium!
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Here we go, the collapse is on
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Tuffers says that Raina edged it
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Right come on get through them now England.
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Blimey, India are collapsing like England in the 1990s
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Swann's Day for sure. India are rubbish, well, rubbish here for sure.
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Blimey, India are collapsing like England in the 1990s
And the 70s, 80s and 00s.
England have always been the master of the mid order collapse but India are now showing us how it should be done.
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Early afternoon this looked odds on a draw. India then lost 7 for 21 in 94 balls
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A great summer for England, difficult to pick one stand out player as all have played their part.
If I had to pick one I'd go for Anderson on the basis his bowling has been superb throughout. The batting has been excellent but to be fair it's been against some insipid bowling.
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Brilliant effort, I never thought we could win 4-0. We have absolutely crushed them, we need to go on now and cement ourselves as number 1 Test side, and improve in one day.
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Brilliant yet again from England,
With the game drifting and the quickies a little weary, Swann comes to the party. Its a brilliant side, full of star players now, but also with the efficiency and ruthlessness of a great team. Say what you like about India's performance, to have to play a team as consistent and as intense as that would get to any side. Now we need to take this into the ODI's.
A little disappointed that Sachin didn't get his hundred.
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Tendulkar will hammer his 100th 100 in one of the one dayers, I think we'll lose that series.
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The one day stuff is a work in progress. Let's hope India give us a game over there and the South Africa tests are tighter.
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I'm getting withdrawl symptoms for test cricket already!
Since the 51 all out in the Caribbean in early 2009 we have moved on several levels and Flower and the backroom team deserve huge plaudits. In this series every player with the possible exception of Strauss has contributed but Strauss deserves credit for his captaincy.
As a huge cricket fan - as I've got older I've grown to favour it over football - I am thrilled that England are ranking number one. It's a while since any sport has given me so much pleasure.
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It's very close to total cricket from England at the moment. Batters all the way down to number 10, bowlers who can field in the slips. Short of a Kallis-type figure, I'n not sure what else they could do. Very impressive and totally ruthless.
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well done England, once we get the one day game together we will be unbeatable.
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couple of points here on a great team.
1. This team have scored more double centuries in the last 18 months, than the England team achieved in the 80's and 90's combined.
2 With that stat in mind, where are we strongest, batting or bowling
Oh and I love Ian Bell, Im sure he could play left back (number 3) for Villa
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couple of points here on a great team.
1. This team have scored more double centuries in the last 18 months, than the England team achieved in the 80's and 90's combined.
2 With that stat in mind, where are we strongest, batting or bowling
Oh and I love Ian Bell, Im sure he could play left back (number 3) for Villa
Given the strength in depth, I'd say bowling. Bowlers win you games and I reckon that if Anderson, Broad, Bresnan and Swann were replaced by Tremlett, Finn, Dernbach and Panesar we'd have still beaten India.
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Shaping up to be an interesting game between England and Ireland.
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couple of points here on a great team.
1. This team have scored more double centuries in the last 18 months, than the England team achieved in the 80's and 90's combined.
2 With that stat in mind, where are we strongest, batting or bowling
Oh and I love Ian Bell, Im sure he could play left back (number 3) for Villa
Given the strength in depth, I'd say bowling. Bowlers win you games and I reckon that if Anderson, Broad, Bresnan and Swann were replaced by Tremlett, Finn, Dernbach and Panesar we'd have still beaten India.
Well, some of the strength in depth will hapve to prove themselves in the Ireland innings today, the batsmen don't seem to have put much of a big score on the board as yet unfortunately.
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Dernbach bowling excellently.
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Morgan also captained very well.
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Tuilagi has to play.
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Tuilagi has to play.
For the test or one day team ;-) ??
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Tuilagi has to play.
oops!
For the test or one day team ;-) ??
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Samit Patel is grossly out of shape and he is rubbish.
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Samit Patel is grossly out of shape and he is rubbish.
But can he play right back?
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Patel is getting bigger! I thought he was in because he'd lost weight. He must have installed one of those circus mirrors in the dressing room.
We'll be chasing 170+ at this rate.
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Great comeback by England, 104-1 just after half way to 165 all out before the end of the 20th
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Very absorbing game but Bopara is all over the shop. 106 for 3, but he won't last much longer. We really need Morgan to hang around.
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Morgan played excellently. The others have to finish this off.
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Fat Bloke is in.
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These two aren't England's quickest batsmen! 20 needed from 18 balls.
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What an over from Patel. Terrible batting though. 10 from last over.
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Never a wide, I'll take it though.
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Nope and the 4.
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That's that. Well played Morgan, Bopara and Dernbach.
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Well played, Bopara?! He looked shaky throughout, didn't get his first boundary (of 2) until he was on 17, had loads of time to look at the pitch, get acclimatised and got 31 off 36. Positively Trottesque.
Great game though, very tense. Well played!
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Dernbach bowls possibly the best slower ball then anyone at the moment, he's a great player to have in the one day stuff.
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Well played, Bopara?! He looked shaky throughout, didn't get his first boundary (of 2) until he was on 17, had loads of time to look at the pitch, get acclimatised and got 31 off 36. Positively Trottesque.
Great game though, very tense. Well played!
Still was part of that Morgan partnership and was there at the end.
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True, but had he have hit out we still had loads of batting to come.
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Good result for England and a wonderful innings by Morgan.
I really hope that he makes it as a test player, he offers so much more than Bopara. There's room for them both in the T20/50 over side but not in the test side. Morgan is great to watch, his unorthodoxy can changes games and bowlers struggle to bowl to him.
At test level he is still to be tested by a top attack such as South Africa, if he can survive that examination then he will go on to play some top innings for England in the future.
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Nice one England, good result that.
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It's good to see a combination of Patel and Trott bowling utter dross is really giving India control.
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22 out of the first 24 balls are dots and we've already lost a wicket. Way to go!
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We are struggling badly.
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Rain stopped play and we need to get to 93 from 20 overs (assuming we don't lose any more wickets), meaning 66 from 12.4 overs....
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We're due the annual Beefy rant about why play matches at Chester Le Street in September.
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Rain stopped play and we need to get to 93 from 20 overs (assuming we don't lose any more wickets), meaning 66 from 12.4 overs....
Whereas cricinfo make the target 164 from 20 overs...
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Another win. We will beat them every time we play, in all forms of the game, this summer at this rate.
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Even with a middle order of Bopara, Patel, Stokes? We had 7 bowlers last night, not counting Stokes. Cook certainly has options! Not sure why Anderson only bowled three but Dernbach 5.
It was a great chase though, really well played.
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Not sure why Anderson only bowled three but Dernbach 5.
Because generally Dernbach is the better T20 bowler of the two and this turned into a T23 game! Dernbach has a great array of slower balls and has even been known to bowl leg spinners whilst still running in at the same pace, he is very effective in the shortest form of the game.
I have no problem with taking some workload off our main bowlers either, it's been a hard summer.
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Even with a middle order of Bopara, Patel, Stokes? We had 7 bowlers last night, not counting Stokes. Cook certainly has options! Not sure why Anderson only bowled three but Dernbach 5.
It was a great chase though, really well played.
Probably to give him the experience, he's still relatively raw at this level and has the potential to be the best death bowler we've had since Gough.
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Good points but Jimmy went for less in 3 overs than Dernbach did in one! I know that Dernbach has this slower ball and good variation but, with 7 bowlers to choose from, Cook should have continued with Jimmy. I assumed he was taken off to be saved for the end.
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Well done again England, what a contrast with the football team.
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Good points but Jimmy went for less in 3 overs than Dernbach did in one! I know that Dernbach has this slower ball and good variation but, with 7 bowlers to choose from, Cook should have continued with Jimmy. I assumed he was taken off to be saved for the end.
Jimmy is a wonderful bowler and the leader of our attack so I agree that he should have bowled all of his quota. Dernbach has much more variety in his locker but needs to learn when to use such weapons. He's got to learn sometime and the Rose Bowl match was a good a place as any.
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Anderson is blowing this Indian batting line-up away single-handedly at the moment. They are offering nothing, must be desperate to leave England now.
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They're fighting back a bit now but they won't get enough to trouble England.
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Kies started very nicely.
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Well that went from a procession to a dogfight. Great batting at the end, even from Bopara. Wouldn't be shocked if Jadeja gets man of the match though. So we can't lose the series now.
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India look like a side with their bags packed and one eye on the departures board.
I'd like to see England go through the Indian half of the summer unbeaten.
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Another one bites the dust.
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Another one bites the dust.
Que? Another Indian injury?
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This is the first time I've seen Finn bowl in a while, he has really put on some serious pace to his bowling. He's consistently around 92 mph and up to 95.
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I'm glad to see Ravi getting some runs, he does have talent.
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I'll settle for a tie! And a kick in the balls for Munaf Patel.
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I'll settle for a tie! And a kick in the balls for Munaf Patel.
Yeah agreed, it's an odd thing to glare down a man who's just scored 96.
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Especially when they haven't won a match all Summer. He did similar to Swann, and his figures aren't exactly much to write home about.
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England batsman Jonathan Trott has been named as cricketer of the year at the ICC's awards and he is a Bear
Alistair Cook named Test player of the year.
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Good to see England go through the Indian half of the summer unbeaten. The bookies would have been offering very long odds on that back in July.
Although they lost 3-0, India played better in the ODI series than the scoreline suggests. We face a difficult ODI series out there in October.
Without getting carried away, we seem to be developing a strong ODI squad. I was very impressed by Bairstow last night, he was so cool on debut. If you add Morgan & KP to the batting line up last night, who do you drop? That's without considering Taylor from Leics and Stokes from Somerset. I'd drop Trott and Bell; a top four where three of the places are taken up by Cook, Trott and Bell is a little staid.
The bowling attack is developing some depth and variety. Finn, Dernbach, Bresnan, Broad, Anderson, Swann and Patel. You can also add Woakes and a few others to that list.
Interesting times ahead.
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Very impressive again that.
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I very much enjoyed taking the piss out of my India supporting work colleague last night.
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1st - England
2nd - rain
3rd - India
Every time they've been in a position of strength, it's rained.
Bairstow looks a good prospect and has probably jumped ahead of Stokes & Taylor in the pecking order. Samit Patel in "can't field" shocker. I can't see him being called up again in a hurry.
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Ravi Bopara deserves a lot of credit imo. He's been a major reason reason for us winning/not losing the last 3 ODI's.
Bairstow was very impressive last night also. Hit the ball so cleanly.
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Bairstow was very impressive last night also. Hit the ball so cleanly.
He's going to be a star, watched him closely as I used to like his Dad when I was growing up.
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Bairstow was excellent. I'm really pleased to see Bopara doing well.
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Samit Patel in "can't field" shocker. I can't see him being called up again in a hurry.
I think he'll play in the forthcoming one day series in India. Monty is the only other credible alternative. Both are lousy fielders but Patel is a much better batsman.
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Maybe you're right that they'll take Samit Patel, but I'd look at Borthwick or even Briggs first. Patel is in the T20 squad for the Windies next week; mind you, so are Briggs & Borthwick...
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ECB go chasing the money.Edgbaston is the players favourite ground. http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/533329.html
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Can't believe there's another Test in Cardiff either.
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Can't believe there's another Test in Cardiff either.
Or Old Trafford they have struggled for years trying to sell tickets for test matches.
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Why are the ashes in England in 2013 & 2015?
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Why are the ashes in England in 2013 & 2015?
No ashes in Australia 2014 to 2015.
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Why are the ashes in England in 2013 & 2015?
No ashes in Australia 2014 to 2015.
I figure they wouldn't be playing 3 years straight! Why aren't there any Ashes in Australia in those years?
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Why are the ashes in England in 2013 & 2015?
No ashes in Australia 2014 to 2015.
I figure they wouldn't be playing 3 years straight! Why aren't there any Ashes in Australia in those years?
Back to back series
England 2013
Australia 2013/14
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Ok, thanks. But my question remains, WHY?
What happened to the ususal cycle? Is it purely for money, is there some other reason I'm missing.
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Not sure why they're doing it this way but I agree that back to back Ashes series and then another 18 months later is overkill. Will that mean we have 10 Ashes Test matches within 6 months?
One of the things that makes Ashes Cricket so great is that it's only played every few years - the anticipation can build - why they'd want to change this I don't know - apart from the $$$ ofcourse.
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Then again there is a train of thought that says that the better and more comitted to Test Cricket sides should play each other more often. At least we know the Aussies will give us a game, once India gave up this summer it was good fun to see us go to No.1 in the rankings but hardly absorbing cricket.
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Is this cricket season ever going to end?
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Ok, thanks. But my question remains, WHY?
What happened to the ususal cycle? Is it purely for money, is there some other reason I'm missing.
I think it is because the Aussie leg of the Ashes is usually held just before a World Cup and they don't like it overshadowing the One Day game.
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Is this cricket season ever going to end?
Hopefully not.
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It was an impressive performance by young England tonight.
Lots to build on for the future in all forms of the game.
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Dernbach is a brilliant bowler in this form of the game, varying his bowling from 92 to 72 MPH without any discernible difference in his action, marvellous.
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it is annoying not to have an Ashes test at Edgbaston in 2013, but they haven't done too badly out of the match allocation for 2012 - 2014:
http://www.edgbaston.com/news/edgbaston-awarded-a-further-20-days-of-major-match-cricket-2012-to-2016/
It's good to see a few ODI's at Edgbaston, we seem to have missed out on ODI's lately. The semi final of the world test championship should be good too, and it could be England - Australia.
The decision appears from the outside as being about money, but it was at the ECB's request and is aimed at giving us as good a shot as possible at winning the 2015 world cup.
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England are making a right cock up of this twenty20
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Terrible batting and more aptly running display by England. However brilliant summer, so an off night is fair enough.
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88 all out! Yikes. Wasn't a big target either. Ah well. As long as we learn from this.
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What a wonderful summer of cricket.
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Where are England touring this winter?
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Where are England touring this winter?
There are 5 ODI's in India in October followed by tests and ODI's against Pakistan in Jan/Feb. These are played in the UAE. There are also a couple of tests in Sri Lanka in late March/early April.
The West Indies and South Africa are here for tests and ODI's next summer as are the Aussies for an ODI series.
Can't wait!
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South Africa could be the No.1 Test team by the time they arrive next summer, which sets us up nicely to beat them and regain it.
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We only play three tests against South Africa next summer? ridiculous.
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We only play three tests against South Africa next summer? ridiculous.
Agreed and its even more ridiculous that 2 of them are in London...............
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Back again!
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And bowling well.
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Hmm they're getting away a bit.
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Me and my big mouth!
If we get tied down by their spinners we could lose this easily.
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Shambolic.
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Wow what a bad half hour that was, I just looked and we have had a big collapse, oh dear!
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Rubbish i am afraid...........This should be a big wake up call and KP, Patel, Bopara and Keiswetter have been very poor
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Rubbish i am afraid...........This should be a big wake up call and KP, Patel, Bopara and Keiswetter have been very poor
That's a bit harsh after recent one day performances. The current group of England players in all forms of cricket is resilient and has always bounced back from a defeat. Let's see what happens in the next game.
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Rubbish i am afraid...........This should be a big wake up call and KP, Patel, Bopara and Keiswetter have been very poor
That's a bit harsh after recent one day performances. The current group of England players in all forms of cricket is resilient and has always bounced back from a defeat. Let's see what happens in the next game.
We will see but we were completely outplayed in all aspects of the game and to lose by 125 runs is poor
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Rubbish i am afraid...........This should be a big wake up call and KP, Patel, Bopara and Keiswetter have been very poor
That's a bit harsh after recent one day performances. The current group of England players in all forms of cricket is resilient and has always bounced back from a defeat. Let's see what happens in the next game.
We will see but we were completely outplayed in all aspects of the game and to lose by 125 runs is poor
For the first 25 overs we were very good. Swann and Dernbach bowled well. In the later stages, our attack struggled in the oppresive heat.
Time will tell but things are not as bad as you are suggesting.
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I wouldn't go massively over the top, but Patel is not good enough.
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I wouldn't go massively over the top, but Patel is not good enough.
I agree. Monty is a credible alternative but he is a liability in the field and with the bat so in the one day team they pick portly Samit who at least knows which end of the bat to hold.
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I wouldn't go massively over the top, but Patel is not good enough.
I agree. Monty is a credible alternative but he is a liability in the field and with the bat so in the one day team they pick portly Samit who at least knows which end of the bat to hold.
I would rather we play Borthwick or the kid Briggs, Patel is a waste of a shirt (a large one @ that) and we have to stop picking bits and pieces cricketers
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We've got the Test selection spot on, the one-dayers are a work in progress.
Not sure of Trott, he's too one paced and struggles to accelerate when needed, Patel must have run out of lives by now as well.
Not too worried though, collapses happen to the best sides now and again, it's how you rebound that matters.
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My view is that of the team is that I'd have as definite starters Cook, Kieswetter(I do have faith in him), KP, Bairstow, Bresnan, Swann, Dernbach. Then we've got to find the other four places around that.
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My view is that of the team is that I'd have as definite starters Cook, Kieswetter(I do have faith in him), KP, Bairstow, Bresnan, Swann, Dernbach. Then we've got to find the other four places around that.
Not completely sure about Bairstow just yet, but otherwise yes, I'd agree with that.
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I'm giving Bairstow the shout, because I think he's well worth persevering with. I think the others have shown enough class.
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I think that we're starting to see the Twenty20 generation coming through. Bairstow, Taylor at Leicester, the lad at Somerset whose name escapes me etc. These are players who are not afraid to hit over the top from the 1st ball and not play themselves in thus reducing strike rate.
I read an interview with Bopara recently and he said how these players have forced him to change how he plans a one day innings. He know looks to attack from the start whereas before he would have started more slowly.
I'd also drop Kieswetter for Prior. Kieswetter may get the occasional good score but makes far too many mistakes behind the stumps. Prior is a nudger and nurdler in the way that Colly used to be and the runs that he'd save behind the stumps added to an ability to rotate strike makes him a better all-round option.
For what it's worth, I'd go with this 12 and decide on spin options etc on the day:
Cook, Somerset lad, KP, Taylor, Bopara, Bairstow, Broad, Prior, Swann, Bresssie, Borthwick & Dernbach
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My 13 would be
Cook, Bell, Taylor, Buttler, Bopara, Bairstow, Broad, Foster, Swann, Woakes, Bresnan, Bortwick and Dernbach
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I will point out, I'm only including the players available in the current squad.
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I'd rather play Panesar than Patel.
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Built the innings back up again after a terrible start, and once again thrown it away by losing Bopara and KP in quick succession.
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Got back in it, then threw it away again. Very frustrating innings. We are probably 40 short, going to need to bowl very very well.
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Another day another thrashing
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Well that wasn't very good.
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Horrendous, so many players got in and fucked it up.
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Kies getting out after a good start is so frustrating, although I still wouldn't drop him.
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Right KP gone, but 64 is a good knock. There is a good platform here the rest of the middle order has to do a job.
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Now I've been a big critic of Patel, but that is a belting innings and we are in with a shout.
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Dernbach is bowling some dross.
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I too have had a go @ Patel but he has played well today, batting & bowling.......
All the bowlers are struggling to stop them scoring and they are walking it @ the present moment, Cook needs to step up as captain here and use some imagination......
They are going on and on about "dot ball" on SKY
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Great catch KP
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Poor from Kieswetter......his place has to be in question not scoring many runs and dropped 2 catches
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Absolute dross again from Dernbach.
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Shambles from Kieswetter.........if we lose he has cost us this game
Agreed about Dernbach........get him off
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Fuck me Dernbach, that's fucked it.
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Can we put to bed this notion that Dernbach is a great death bowler because he's got a slower ball? His last over is absolute crap. Wides, no balls, etc are not acceptable at the death!
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Shambles from Kieswetter.........if we lose he has cost us this game
Agreed about Dernbach........get him off
Disagree about Kieswetter. Yes he made a mistake kicking the stumps, but these bowlers probably couldn't defend 400!
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What a pile of shite. First Cook is no captain, give it to swann. Second get rid of Keiswetter. Bell to open and Bairstow keeps. Third I know he is injured now but Woakes has to replace dernbach
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Dernbach was absolutely abysmal, Botham was fuming you could tell. We have become absolutely obsessed with slower balls. Kieswetter is under serious pressure now.
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Shambles from Kieswetter.........if we lose he has cost us this game
Agreed about Dernbach........get him off
Disagree about Kieswetter. Yes he made a mistake kicking the stumps, but these bowlers probably couldn't defend 400!
Don't agree. He missed 2 catches and 2 chances of the same stumping
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What a pile of shite. First Cook is no captain, give it to swann. Second get rid of Keiswetter. Bell to open and Bairstow keeps. Third I know he is injured now but Woakes has to replace dernbach
Agree 100% Cook is a nice guy but no captain let him be the brilliant test batsmen he is
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Dernbach massively over does the slower ball, but it's spread to the rest of the team. Most of the balls that got smacked for 4 were slower balls. The slower ball should be a surprise not the norm.
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Shambles from Kieswetter.........if we lose he has cost us this game
Agreed about Dernbach........get him off
Disagree about Kieswetter. Yes he made a mistake kicking the stumps, but these bowlers probably couldn't defend 400!
The bowlers could defend 300 if the keeper was up to the job
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Still no Bell and Swann has been dropped ???
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Swann dropped?
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Strange decision, can understand Dernbach being dropped because he's been shite but Swann?
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Apparently he's rested. I guess now the series is lost they want a look at Borthwick.
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I suppose it's a dead rubber and they want to see Patel & Borthwick in tandem.
Just the 4 South Africans in the team...
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Anyone got any feeds for this?
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If its a dead rubber why not drop Kieswetter let Bairstow keep and bring in Bell.................
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Hey, they've made changes so *that's* progress. :D
Just to think that this time last year our alternatives would have been the likes of Yardy & Wright!
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Kieswetter on the move.
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I'm not sure about Cook at all.
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Ah the usual Kieswetter start then gone.
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Kieswetter on the move.
not any more
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I'm not sure about Cook at all.
I never have been and never will..........
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In fairness to Kieswetter it was the ball just died.
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I'm not sure about Cook at all.
I never have been and never will..........
Same here.
He shouldn't be in the one day squad let alone be captain. Bell or Swann as captain for me and FFS get rid of Kieswetter!
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Once again starts.
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Awful from Bopara.
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Horrendous now.
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Terrible batting display. Really really awful. We need some serious work at our one day game.
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Problem is India play a zillion ODI a year.
We are way behind.
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Players I would definitely keep after this series are Pietersen, Bres, Swann, Finn(I do rate him). That's all the ones I would definitely keep, then you add Morgan and Broad. The 5 places are up for grabs. I'd probably give Bairstow a run to see what he can do.
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Players I would definitely keep after this series are Pietersen, Bres, Swann, Finn(I do rate him). That's all the ones I would definitely keep, then you add Morgan and Broad. The 5 places are up for grabs. I'd probably give Bairstow a run to see what he can do.
Mine are Trott, Bres, Swanny, Finn, Bell as captain, Bairstow as keeper and as u say Morgan, Broad
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I think Pietersen has got enough runs in the series to be worth a place.
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Also we never ever know how to set a target.
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Finn is the one shining light, he is going to be world class.
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Finn is the one shining light, he is going to be world class.
agreed Paul 100%
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Great catch by Kieswetter.
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Whilst I don't necessarily like to see poor sportsmanship Finn's in your face reaction to Raina is no worse than Kumar to Kieswetter the other day. I like seeing Finn fired up, quality bowler.
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Terrible terrible performance, Finn aside.
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This has been a horrible tour in many respects. We've played pretty appallingly and shown a poor attitude. The crowds haven't turned up. They have to do something about these meaningless one day series.
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Apparently the ground is so empty because Diwali starts tomorrow.
Let's see how we bat with the dew, seeing that we know how we bowl...
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From 80 for 0 to 80 for 3.
From cricinfo: Finn's last over was like W0000W...
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Finn really is one hell of a talent, for now and the future.
He'd walk into any test team in the world, just unfortunate for him there is so much competition for place in ours.
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And then Swann drops Raina off Finn's bowling... With the inevitable four next ball.
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I wish we'd stop dropping people off Finn, he's bowling wonderfully and not getting the full rewards.
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Cook needs to start captaining in a much stronger manner. This bickering within the team is unacceptable and is detrimental to our performance.
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Did you see Finn go off at the end of that over? I've never seen him so animated!
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We have let them get massively more than they should have.
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Staring down the barrell now, we really need an innings from Kieswetter, especially without KP.
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I wouldn't mind one of our players (not Trott) getting a ton!
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I'm pleased Kies has got his 50, I do rate him and think he's worth persevering with. Hopefully he can push on.
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I agree.
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Right well no doubt Kieswetter will be blamed as it seems to be fashionable. But Cook and him built a very solid foundation, and ok losing both in the space of two overs isn't great, but you can't really argue with their innings. However those who have followed have completely fucked this up, and god knows what Bairstow was doing.
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I think we can also call a close to the Ravi Bopara experiment.
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yup
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And Samit Patel.
129 for 0 to 176 all out. What a joke.
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Terrible performance, terrible tour. We look woefully lacking in class without KP and Morgan in the batting line up. Moving forward I think my first 11 if you keep Cook as captain would be -
Cook
Kieswetter
Pietersen
Bell
Morgan
Taylor
Stokes/Buttler/Bairstow
Broad
Bresnan
Swann
Finn
I believe Kieswetter can make, as he demonstrated with the bat today. Finn was the big positive of this tour. The rest was an utter shambles and the behaviour of the team was abysmal. Also maybe Swann wants to leave books alone, his performance was poor all summer and he was terrible on this tour.
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You'd also be left with Borthwick, Hales, Anderson, Dernbach around the squad.
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Put this tour down to a combination of far too much cricket, very poor captaincy and our continuing inability to cope with sub-continent pitches in one-dayers, then learn the lessons and move on.
Need to replace Cook as captain, I just don't think he has it, brilliant batsman, will be opening in the tests for many years to come, but not a captain. Wonder if Swanny or Morgan fancy the job?
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I'd rather have Morgan as captain if we are replacing Cook. Swanny tends to get too frustrated with his team mates. Plus Morgan could theoretically be captain for years, he's pretty young.
Also Flower post match interview was very frank and honest I'm sure he'll sort it out.
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Shambles of a tour really, outclassed and outplayed
Swann needs to get his head down, Cook nice guy and great test player but not a one day player and a poor captain
Dernbach, Bopara very poor
Captaincy to Bell or Morgan ASAP
The only plus point was Finn
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After Saturday, they've got 2 months to bang a few heads together. I don't think we're technically inferior, but some of the players didn't seem to thrive on the pressure or the atmosphere.
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Put this tour down to a combination of far too much cricket, very poor captaincy and our continuing inability to cope with sub-continent pitches in one-dayers, then learn the lessons and move on.
Need to replace Cook as captain, I just don't think he has it, brilliant batsman, will be opening in the tests for many years to come, but not a captain. Wonder if Swanny or Morgan fancy the job?
I pretty much agree with this. I do wonder if the tour had an end of term feel about it. They've now got two months off and the warm beaches of the southern hemisphere will be calling. Cook is too much of a nice guy to clamp down on this sort of carefree attitude.
We need to stick with the kids but I'd reconsider Kieswetter. He makes far too many mistakes with the gloves and his batting doesn't give us a solid start often enough.
Replace Cook and give the job to Swann or Bell. I'm slightly biased to a Bear/fellow Villa fan but when he captained the Bears in the CB40 final in 2010 he was excellent, totally outthought Trescothick who is an experienced skipper.
All in all as we demolished Indian on our pitches it's no massive surprise that they did the same to us on their pitches.
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I think Morgan has to be the captain if you replace Cook, because he is pretty much the only one you'd look at and say he'll definitely 100% play. I guess you could say the same with Swann, but he tends to show dissent to teammates too much.
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Well done boys, still the best Test and Twenty20 team in the World. Just need to sort out the 50 over stuff.
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I'd also say KP is clearly still a class act.
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Finally a win for England, well done the lions.
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I think its a little early to be writing Cook off. Far more experienced captains have taken maulings in India, English and Non English.
I'm confident that Andy Flower will pick the bones over this tour and sort it out.
Lets not forget that Cook captained England to series victorys over the no 2 and no 3 ODI sides in the summer.
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I wonder what sentences the three Pakistan cricketers will get. I imagine that Aamir will get less, due to his admission of guilt and plausible naivity. All this corruption really pisses me off.
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Butt should be sent down for 12 months. Asif 12 months suspended. Aamer fined. However as they are foreign citizens can they be imprisioned or will they be deported straight after sentencing?
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Butt should be sent down for 12 months. Asif 12 months suspended. Aamer fined. However as they are foreign citizens can they be imprisioned or will they be deported straight after sentencing?
Surely they will be given a council house, a car and free food for a year?
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Well the fixer Majeed's Lawyer is certainly suggesting a lot of other players are involved.
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Whatever the outcome of this Mohammed Asif should never play cricket again, he has tested positive for steroids on 2 occasions, caught in possession once & now spot fixing. How much wrong does one have to do before the authorities say enough is enough.
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Fair point.
The Pakistan cricket team. Biggest collection of cheats in international sport.
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They are and it's such a shame that a lot of them seemed to be flawed characters, because Amir for example is a remarkable talent.
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Sentnces passed:
Majeed (agent) 32 months
Salman Butt 30 months
Mohammed Asif 12 months
Mohammed Amir 6 months
I'd have liked to have seen harsher sentences but I guess that they are within sentencing guidelines.
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To be honest those are worse sentences than I thought they'd get. That is certainly a strong deterrent.
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To be honest those are worse sentences than I thought they'd get. That is certainly a strong deterrent.
It's ironic that the British Judiciary has done the ICC's job for them.
Question is now how do we prevent an repeat?
The ICC must toughen up and the Pakistani board pay their players a decent salary. As I understand it their players are amongst the poorest paid in world cricket. It's hardly surprising that players heads are turned by, what must be for them, astronomical sums of money.
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Butt should be sent down for 12 months. Asif 12 months suspended. Aamer fined. However as they are foreign citizens can they be imprisioned or will they be deported straight after sentencing?
Surely they will be given a council house, a car and free food for a year?
They got two out of three you mentioned.
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Fair point.
The Pakistan cricket team. Biggest collection of cheats in international sport.
That is an astonishing statement bearing in mind what has gone on in baseball, boxing, Athletics, Olympic Field Sports and many football matches every week all over the world!
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Well the fixer Majeed's Lawyer is certainly suggesting a lot of other players are involved.
i understand a county cricketer goes on trial in the new year.
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Fair point.
The Pakistan cricket team. Biggest collection of cheats in international sport.
That is an astonishing statement bearing in mind what has gone on in baseball, boxing, Athletics, Olympic Field Sports and many football matches every week all over the world!
The Pakistan cricket team have been up to their neck's in it for years,on and off the cricket field.
It's the fans I feel sorry for.
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Agreed. There are plenty of cheats in sport but, as sure as night follows day, you can guarantee a whole host of controversy every time we play them.
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Fair point.
The Pakistan cricket team. Biggest collection of cheats in international sport.
That is an astonishing statement bearing in mind what has gone on in baseball, boxing, Athletics, Olympic Field Sports and many football matches every week all over the world!
The Pakistan cricket team have been up to their neck's in it for years,on and off the cricket field.
It's the fans I feel sorry for.
Agreed. There are plenty of cheats in sport but, as sure as night follows day, you can guarantee a whole host of controversy every time we play them.
and that is a shame because it would be good to see them perform competitively without any shenanigans.
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Totally agree
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Setting aside the obvious wrongdoings of the players on this occasion, and thinking about the other players who may be involved in this type of thing, I think there are a couple of questions that need answering.
1: Why are the Pakistani players payed so poorly by the PCB? Surely this can only encourage players to become involved in shadier things?
2: Why aren't the PCB protecting their players? Illegal gambling in South East Asia is a scary business, once these people get hold of players they won't let go. When players inform the PCB about approaches, aren't they being given an adequate level of support? (Zulqarnain Haider had to flee Pakistan after receiving death threats, due to refusing to become involved in match fixing)
It all well and good castigating the players, but cricket boards have also got to create a enviroment which discourages this type of behaviour.
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Excellent points twr, and ones that have prompted some people to suggest a rigourous vetting of all Test playing nations, and those that fail on any points should be suspended from first class cricket until they comply.
Unfortunately the ICC are a bunch of toothless, bumbling idiots so it will never happen.
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To be honest those are worse sentences than I thought they'd get. That is certainly a strong deterrent.
It's ironic that the British Judiciary has done the ICC's job for them.
Question is now how do we prevent an repeat?
The ICC must toughen up and the Pakistani board pay their players a decent salary. As I understand it their players are amongst the poorest paid in world cricket. It's hardly surprising that players heads are turned by, what must be for them, astronomical sums of money.
Got it in one.
TBH -and I'm sure I'll get pelters for this- I do have a degree of sympathy for them. Asif and Amir in particular are the probably the equal of many players in other Test nations ability wise, yet their remuneration is far inferior. I take the point that every delivery could be a potential wicket, but bowling a few no balls is not quite the same as throwing a match. Whatever else they might be, we have to hope that they still had enough drive and determination to believe they could win the game in question at Lords.
The collapse was alarming though -as was their one against Australia in Australia, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. If it is ever proven that they deliberately underperformed in those games to the extent that they wanted to affect the result, any sympathy I currently have will go out the window.
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Ok this isn't about England(although we are playing South Africa next summer). That day's cricket between SA and Australia is the most insane day ever.
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As we seem to be using this as a General Cricket Thread has anyone seen the Scores in the SA v Aus 2nd Test.
1st Innings
Aus 284 (Clarke 151)
SA 96 (only the opening batsmen getting double figures 18 and 37)
2nd Innings
Aus 47 all out (only the last two getting double figures 12 and 14 and at one point being 21 -9. Four Ducks including Ponting)
SA 81 -1 at days close.
Australia almost got the record for the worst innings ever by a Test Side but a closing partnership by Siddle and Lyon spared some blushes. 23 Wickets in total for the day's play.
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As I say, utterly insane.
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I've really enjoyed following it today. If Shane Watson takes 3 wickets in the second innings then he'll have taken more wickets than runs scored. Not bad for an opener!
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They are going mental about it over here. Demanding that Ponting, Haddin and Hughes are all ditched.
Fan-bloody-tastic.
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Haddin's shot was particularly poor. I've been thinking for a while now they need to get Payne in asap - once he's back from injury, I reckon it won't be long. Average Keeper at best and his shot selection is dreadful for such an experienced Cricketer.
Watson must move down the order to 6, Marsh should open. They're all to blame though for the 47 - reminds me of a few English performances circa 1993-2003.
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At 21-9 they were staring at the lowest EVER Test score, now that would have been funny.
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Bizarre indeed, apparently the first time in Test Cricket that all 4 innings have been in progress during one day's play
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Ha, ha. Poor old convicts!
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Bizarre indeed, apparently the first time in Test Cricket that all 4 innings have been in progress during one day's play
That is a fantastic statistic.
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Bizarre indeed, apparently the first time in Test Cricket that all 4 innings have been in progress during one day's play
That is a fantastic statistic.
Second Time.
First time was England v West Indies at Lords in 2000 (Day Two)
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Monty back for the tour where we play Pakistan. It'll be interesting to see if he gets the chance, how he does.