Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Loxton01 on January 02, 2016, 05:26:45 PM
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After yet another debacle - it is time for the fans (the only thing left good in this club) to stand up and fight given the players and the club cannot.
We need to ask questions, demand the resignation of the likes of Paddy Reilly, Almstadt and the rest of the baffoons who have bought these players to our club.
We need to form some sort of protest - they may not listen but we cannot keep taking this.
We are sleep walking into the next Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday or heaven forbid Portsmouth.
Collymore is out spoken and at times illogical but we need a figure head to lead this. We need former players backing a protest or the request for a full and frank discussion with Fox and demand answers.
We need the organisers of these forums to get together with others and get a plan out to all fans. We need a walkout during a game we need something where we show the view of the fans.
We cannot keep accepting this complete and utter disgrace from over paid players, a manager who was bought in on the cheap and an owner and his board who are full of non footballing people.
Where's this so called Chairman? How can it take so long?
We need to form a list of proping questions based on fact not anger and ones that will really make Fox and the rest squirm.
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I'm sure everybody is just as pissed off as you, but I'm afraid the sad situation is that all of the above would achieve nothing. We have an owner who wants to sell, but can't, and overall doesn't give a toss. We're down and out, and sadly there's not a lot we can do to improve the situation.
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The first question that should be asked is could the players pay for away travel for the poor suffering fans for the rest of the season.
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I'm sure everybody is just as pissed off as you, but I'm afraid the sad situation is that all of the above would achieve nothing. We have an owner who wants to sell, but can't, and overall doesn't give a toss. We're down and out, and sadly there's not a lot we can do to improve the situation.
We could at least poke fun at Lerner, that sack of crap.
We have let him off so easy over the last 3 or 4 years, and have always called for the managers head instead. Now we know that no matter who Randy puts where NOTHING changes.
Can we at least send some poo to his doorstep?
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I totally agree. I wont go to another match until we have new owners. We shouldn't just turn up and acept this shite. We're on course to finish as badly as derby and Sunderland who were both promoted teams. To fall from being a top 6 club and premier ever present is pure incompetence. The bastards in control need to feel the pressure. Randy clearly dont care but anger needs to be vented at fox and his cronies
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There is the AVST AGM at VP on 21st January with T Fox - I intend to be there but I am not sure what the hell I will say to him that would not be some sort of spluttering, strangulated howl of despair...
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Risso - I don't disagree that we have an owner who doesn't want to sell but even then I don't see other teams doing as badly as us in similar situations - WBA, teams who have come up who haven't spent much.
We have still spent decent amounts of money and enough to have at least battled against relegation. We need answers as to why we have eight points after 20 games - this cannot just be accepted.
Moyes, Pearson etc might not have kept us up but do people truly believe we would have 8 points with either in charge.
You don't always need money to succeed - look at Watford, Leicester.
If we just accept this - we are as bad as the Club.
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I agree with Loxton. Be vocal and cheer the team all we want on match day- it wont make a difference now. I'd rather us all turn up and be vocal and demonstrate our anger and frustration towards the board. We should demand Fox to resign with immediate effect. Lerner should accept his fuck up and reduce his value considerably. I also like the idea of a mass walkout- I know it will never happen, I remember the farce that was last years "protest" until the whatever minute was- I counted about 30 of us in the concourses of the North upper.
It's strange that the only thing that gets me militant is this woeful football club!
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There does seem to be an air of naiive acceptance from the Villa. Supporters voicing their outrage and anger over the gross mismanagement of the club is more than warranted, for me. Lerner ultimately takes the blame, but what about those people who run Villa day to day? In my opinion it's they that need to bear the weight of scrunity.
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There is the AVST AGM at VP on 21st January with T Fox - I intend to be there but I am not sure what the hell I will say to him that would not be some sort of spluttering, strangulated howl of despair...
I am going to that meeting too WW - I honestly don't think Fox will turn up.
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There is the AVST AGM at VP on 21st January with T Fox - I intend to be there but I am not sure what the hell I will say to him that would not be some sort of spluttering, strangulated howl of despair...
I am going to that meeting too WW - I honestly don't think Fox will turn up.
His train will get stuck at Euston.
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There is the AVST AGM at VP on 21st January with T Fox - I intend to be there but I am not sure what the hell I will say to him that would not be some sort of spluttering, strangulated howl of despair...
I am going to that meeting too WW - I honestly don't think Fox will turn up.
He won't have time, he will be in his shed "building something special" I hope it's a chair and I volunteer to plug it in.
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Can anyone go to the AGM or is it by specific invite.
We need people who are going as stated above to be prepared - questions can be asked.
If Fox does cancel it shows how spineless he truly is.
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I'm not sure SVC is the right person to lead a protest. For most of his time here he did a passable impersonation of the current rabble's half-arsedness. If you're gonna have an ex-Villa footballer as a figurehead, then choose somone, erm, respected by the support
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Can anyone go to the AGM or is it by specific invite.
Join - it's only £5
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Too little, too late. The term "sleepwalking to relegation" is often used, but in our case it definitely rings true.
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There is the AVST AGM at VP on 21st January with T Fox - I intend to be there but I am not sure what the hell I will say to him that would not be some sort of spluttering, strangulated howl of despair...
I am going to that meeting too WW - I honestly don't think Fox will turn up.
That scenario crossed my mind as well FFD
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Why don't we do the "White hanky" thing they do in Spain?
Or maybe white flags seeing as the team have surrendered?
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Why don't we do the "White hanky" thing they do in Spain?
Or maybe white flags seeing as the team have surrendered?
Wreaths laid at the MgGregor statue to mark the demise of a once proud and visionary football club?
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Black arm-bands.
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Return your proud history-bright future scarves.
That was Lerners first good will gesture & statment , now time to throw it back in his face .
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Return your proud history-bright future scarves.
That was Lerners first good will gesture & statment , now time to throw it back in his face .
Nice touch ...
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We are in the worst possible state in recent history that we have ever been in, yet it seems to me that there was more of a fan uproar to McLeish coming in.
The fans definitely need to do something... even if it leads to nothing it will at least let us vent some of our frustration out on 'some' of the people responsible.
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Why not nominate a game at VP to boycott?
An empty stadium might not achieve bugger all, but it will send a message that we actually do care. Care much more than the current custodians.
Can anyone imagine a properly run club like Arsenal being allowed to get into this state?
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I'm not sure SVC is the right person to lead a protest. For most of his time here he did a passable impersonation of the current rabble's half-arsedness. If you're gonna have an ex-Villa footballer as a figurehead, then choose somone, erm, respected by the support
Not sure if Shaun Teale would be a better bet.
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Charlton Fans are kicking off with protests aimed at their owners, time for the Villa fans to do the same.
We are a mess, time to demonstrate regardless ..
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I still feel we should all stay silent when the players come onto the pitch at our next home match instead of the usual standing ovation - why should they get an ovation at all!!
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I'm not sure SVC is the right person to lead a protest. For most of his time here he did a passable impersonation of the current rabble's half-arsedness. If you're gonna have an ex-Villa footballer as a figurehead, then choose somone, erm, respected by the support
Not sure if Shaun Teale would be a better bet.
SVC has at least got the excuse that he was suffering from a mental illness at the time.
As much as I dismissed this as a ruse at the time I've since had first hand experience of what that can do to a person.
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Why not nominate a game at VP to boycott?
An empty stadium might not achieve bugger all, but it will send a message that we actually do care. Care much more than the current custodians.
Can anyone imagine a properly run club like Arsenal being allowed to get into this state?
id go with the stadium boycott, we could have a kickabout on aston park, would be more entertaining than the shit we have to watch
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I can see a pitch invasion and sit down protest at the Leicester Game for 10 minutes before half time being effective.
Then fans can empty the ground.
Remember the publicity at the Cup game last season against WBA when fans went on the pitch.
The BBC and media went ballistic.
Extreme, but look at the situation we are in...
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Why not nominate a game at VP to boycott?
An empty stadium might not achieve bugger all, but it will send a message that we actually do care. Care much more than the current custodians.
Can anyone imagine a properly run club like Arsenal being allowed to get into this state?
id go with the stadium boycott, we could have a kickabout on aston park, would be more entertaining than the shit we have to watch
Why not do what Bayern fans did at Arsenal when protesting about ticket prices? A full boycott won't work, but if people are told to not take their seats until five or ten minutes after kickoff then this will send a message.
I'm aware the club want us to turn up half hour before kickoff for security in light of what happened in Paris, but to be honest a body search on myself at a recent home game managed to miss a small jar of lipsil that could quite easily have been a device of some description.
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A boycott is pointless unless the majority(75%+) take part & that'll never happen.
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I wasn't searched at all on the way into The West Ham game in Boxing Day. The big security thing only seemed to be that one game!
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I'd boycott but still go somewhere instead. Imagine if everyone turned up at Walsall's ground, Drayton Manor Zoo or Don Amott's Leisure Kingdom, just off the Eggington Road, Derby. Just confuse the fuck out of 'em i say
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I'm aware the club want us to turn up half hour before kickoff for security in light of what happened in Paris, but to be honest a body search on myself at a recent home game managed to miss a small jar of lipsil that could quite easily have been a device of some description.
Lerner out.
A proper owner would care enough to arrange full cavity searches for all ticket holders.
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Boycotting games won't work because you need a critical mass of supporters to participate or it's a damp squib and I don't think the numbers will stack up. Don't buy a programme, drinks or food in the ground. Don't buy club merchandise. Don't give them another penny until Lerner goes.
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I'm aware the club want us to turn up half hour before kickoff for security in light of what happened in Paris, but to be honest a body search on myself at a recent home game managed to miss a small jar of lipsil that could quite easily have been a device of some description.
Lerner out.
A proper owner would care enough to arrange full cavity searches for all ticket holders.
Lets not be ridiculous about this, eh? I was pointing out the pointlessness of this "security". The object in question was in my jacket pocket, BTW.
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Can you use Lipsil in the manufacture of suicide bombs and if so, is there a non-terror alternative the club can recommend?
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Can you use Lipsil in the manufacture of suicide bombs and if so, is there a non-terror alternative the club can recommend?
Fuck knows, but this jar was not much smaller than a "det" (explosive device used on the railways) and possibly other items of a similar nature. I expected, with enhanced security, for it to be found and to at least be questioned on what it was. It was a winter coat that I'd not worn in a while and I'd forgotten about the item in an external pocket until it was too late.
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Where's this so called Chairman? How can it take so long?
Probably having second thoughts about joining this shambles.
If it's anyone with any business and football acumen (not likely given the bozos who will be conducting the interview process) theyd think twice about joining a nose diving organisation.
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#PrayForLipsil
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#PrayForLipsil
Oh fuckoff
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We weren't searched going into the Trinity for the West Ham game; I had a flask the size of a World War Two Luftwaffe bomb hidden in my blanket.
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I saw a rumour the next chairman is going to be Randys son.
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#PrayForLipsil
Oh fuckoff
Your next post will be an apology, won't it?
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We weren't searched going into the Trinity for the West Ham game; I had a flask the size of a World War Two Luftwaffe bomb hidden in my blanket.
Again, it underlines the pointlessness. Yet we were instructed to undo our jackets at the WHU game, as for the previous game.
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Can you use Lipsil in the manufacture of suicide bombs and if so, is there a non-terror alternative the club can recommend?
Fuck knows, but this jar was not much smaller than a "det" (explosive device used on the railways) and possibly other items of a similar nature. I expected, with enhanced security, for it to be found and to at least be questioned on what it was. It was a winter coat that I'd not worn in a while and I'd forgotten about the item in an external pocket until it was too late.
Sounds like the time i went in with a banana tied to a sparkler, Very similar to the anti-tank weapons the Mujahideen used against the russians in Afganistan and they missed that as well.
*Sorry Chris, In a very silly mood. Drink hasn't helped :0)
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Thanks, Dave - appreciated. We're all hurting. Just trying to lighten the load. No need for bad language or personal attacks.
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We weren't searched going into the Trinity for the West Ham game; I had a flask the size of a World War Two Luftwaffe bomb hidden in my blanket.
[/quote
I was - it's either because they'd seen me by a fanzine off Perce before the Arse game or just because my Mrs looks dodge but clearly we triggered some red flags - let's see what happens when I run on the pitch next sat and pretend to be a defender - tbh I think I could pull it off for quite a while but was always shit at heading.
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#PrayForLipsil
Oh fuckoff
Your next post will be an apology, won't it?
Glenn Peen - I am sorry i was abusive to you.
I offer an apology to someone who rarely posts but takes the opportunity to take the piss despite me trying to make a point about so-called "enhanced security." This on top of one of the mod team making glib statements about internal cavity searches in response to me making a point, although I agree it was off topic somewhat.
And while my action was not appropriate I will point out that in over ten thousand posts going back over a decade I have never told any one to fuck off before on this forum, despite having the opportunity to do so.
Now maybe we ought to get back to protests.
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Now maybe we ought to get back to protests.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QMuDihPPyPA/S45yGNstdSI/AAAAAAAAMho/Sof3BkIkHDA/s400/fatherted.jpg)
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Think the white hanky is a great idea, effective but not asking people to a) miss games or b) commit an offence.
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I totally agree. I wont go to another match until we have new owners. We shouldn't just turn up and acept this shite. We're on course to finish as badly as derby and Sunderland who were both promoted teams. To fall from being a top 6 club and premier ever present is pure incompetence. The bastards in control need to feel the pressure. Randy clearly dont care but anger needs to be vented at fox and his cronies
I can't stand this attitude of 'ill never go down again whilst so and so is in charge'
I know people who said that towards the end of O'Neils era, whilst mcleish was in charge, same for lambert. (and still havent been back)
Its bullshit, just an excuse not to go
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I totally agree. I wont go to another match until we have new owners. We shouldn't just turn up and acept this shite. We're on course to finish as badly as derby and Sunderland who were both promoted teams. To fall from being a top 6 club and premier ever present is pure incompetence. The bastards in control need to feel the pressure. Randy clearly dont care but anger needs to be vented at fox and his cronies
I can't stand this attitude of 'ill never go down again whilst so and so is in charge'
I know people who said that towards the end of O'Neils era, whilst mcleish was in charge, same for lambert. (and still havent been back)
Its bullshit, just an excuse not to go
But it's not like it's a life-debt is it? If somebody doesn't want to spend their money doing something that they don't enjoy, why should they?
I fully understand somebody being quite happy to spend £150 a year to watch us win a dozen home games per season in the 1990s but is reluctant to spend £400 a year to watch us win a dozen home games across the whole of the 2010s.
If they'd rather spend that time and money with their family, in Homebase, playing golf or just repeatedly masturbating on the sofa, it doesn't really affect anybody else's enjoyment of following Villa does it?
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If you dont want to go down. Don't.. but don't tell everybody about it.
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My current handkerchief hasn't been washed for about six weeks, can we think of some other protest? I don't want to be outed for having a smeggy snot rag on MOTD.
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I'm forming a new club in protest, we'll wear the piebald kit of the mid 1880s and call ourselves The Aston Villa.
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We are far to nice to protest don't ya know, throughout our history we have been head shakers and tutterers anything more would be unseemly.
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I totally agree. I wont go to another match until we have new owners. We shouldn't just turn up and acept this shite. We're on course to finish as badly as derby and Sunderland who were both promoted teams. To fall from being a top 6 club and premier ever present is pure incompetence. The bastards in control need to feel the pressure. Randy clearly dont care but anger needs to be vented at fox and his cronies
I can't stand this attitude of 'ill never go down again whilst so and so is in charge'
I know people who said that towards the end of O'Neils era, whilst mcleish was in charge, same for lambert. (and still havent been back)
Its bullshit, just an excuse not to go
But it's not like it's a life-debt is it? If somebody doesn't want to spend their money doing something that they don't enjoy, why should they?
I fully understand somebody being quite happy to spend £150 a year to watch us win a dozen home games per season in the 1990s but is reluctant to spend £400 a year to watch us win a dozen home games across the whole of the 2010s.
If they'd rather spend that time and money with their family, in Homebase, playing golf or just repeatedly masturbating on the sofa, it doesn't really affect anybody else's enjoyment of following Villa does it?
But it is an easy get out, as someone just stated if you dont want to go, dont.
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We are far to nice to protest don't ya know, throughout our history we have been head shakers and tutterers anything more would be unseemly.
We never used to be. Doug Ellis only had to as much as fart and they'd be banners and marches and protests. That wasn't so long ago either. What happened to change all that?
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We are far to nice to protest don't ya know, throughout our history we have been head shakers and tutterers anything more would be unseemly.
We never used to be. Doug Ellis only had to as much as fart and they'd be banners and marches and protests. That wasn't so long ago either. What happened to change all that?
Oh for a few seasons of underachievement in twelfth or something.
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I go to every game home and away fuck off
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We are far to nice to protest don't ya know, throughout our history we have been head shakers and tutterers anything more would be unseemly.
We never used to be. Doug Ellis only had to as much as fart and they'd be banners and marches and protests. That wasn't so long ago either. What happened to change all that?
Oh for a few seasons of underachievement in twelfth or something.
What do you two actually want?
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I go to every game home and away fuck off
Less of that, please.
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We are far to nice to protest don't ya know, throughout our history we have been head shakers and tutterers anything more would be unseemly.
We never used to be. Doug Ellis only had to as much as fart and they'd be banners and marches and protests. That wasn't so long ago either. What happened to change all that?
Oh for a few seasons of underachievement in twelfth or something.
What do you two actually want?
Maybe they simply want to not be seven points adrift of the nearest team at the bottom of the PL because the owner is a clueless buffoon.
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We are far to nice to protest don't ya know, throughout our history we have been head shakers and tutterers anything more would be unseemly.
We never used to be. Doug Ellis only had to as much as fart and they'd be banners and marches and protests. That wasn't so long ago either. What happened to change all that?
Oh for a few seasons of underachievement in twelfth or something.
What do you two actually want?
I'd like to see Lerner out the fuckin door, or at least the fans protest against the man who has humiliated the club on a weekly basis for practically 5 years. What do you want?
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We are far to nice to protest don't ya know, throughout our history we have been head shakers and tutterers anything more would be unseemly.
We never used to be. Doug Ellis only had to as much as fart and they'd be banners and marches and protests. That wasn't so long ago either. What happened to change all that?
Oh for a few seasons of underachievement in twelfth or something.
What do you two actually want?
Maybe they simply want to not be seven points adrift of the nearest team at the bottom of the PL because the owner is a clueless buffoon.
I'm sure they're not on their own in that.
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We are far to nice to protest don't ya know, throughout our history we have been head shakers and tutterers anything more would be unseemly.
We never used to be. Doug Ellis only had to as much as fart and they'd be banners and marches and protests. That wasn't so long ago either. What happened to change all that?
Oh for a few seasons of underachievement in twelfth or something.
What do you two actually want?
Maybe they simply want to not be seven points adrift of the nearest team at the bottom of the PL because the owner is a clueless buffoon.
I'm sure they're not on their own in that.
I'm sure they're not.
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I totally agree. I wont go to another match until we have new owners. We shouldn't just turn up and acept this shite. We're on course to finish as badly as derby and Sunderland who were both promoted teams. To fall from being a top 6 club and premier ever present is pure incompetence. The bastards in control need to feel the pressure. Randy clearly dont care but anger needs to be vented at fox and his cronies
I can't stand this attitude of 'ill never go down again whilst so and so is in charge'
I know people who said that towards the end of O'Neils era, whilst mcleish was in charge, same for lambert. (and still havent been back)
Its bullshit, just an excuse not to go
But it's not like it's a life-debt is it? If somebody doesn't want to spend their money doing something that they don't enjoy, why should they?
I fully understand somebody being quite happy to spend £150 a year to watch us win a dozen home games per season in the 1990s but is reluctant to spend £400 a year to watch us win a dozen home games across the whole of the 2010s.
If they'd rather spend that time and money with their family, in Homebase, playing golf or just repeatedly masturbating on the sofa, it doesn't really affect anybody else's enjoyment of following Villa does it?
But it is an easy get out, as someone just stated if you dont want to go, dont.
Yup, that's fair enough.
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We are far to nice to protest don't ya know, throughout our history we have been head shakers and tutterers anything more would be unseemly.
We never used to be. Doug Ellis only had to as much as fart and they'd be banners and marches and protests. That wasn't so long ago either. What happened to change all that?
Oh for a few seasons of underachievement in twelfth or something.
What do you two actually want?
I'd like to see Lerner out the fuckin door, or at least the fans protest against the man who has humiliated the club on a weekly basis for practically 5 years. What do you want?
So you want the same as he does, which would tend to make any sort of protest a bit pointless.
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We are far to nice to protest don't ya know, throughout our history we have been head shakers and tutterers anything more would be unseemly.
We never used to be. Doug Ellis only had to as much as fart and they'd be banners and marches and protests. That wasn't so long ago either. What happened to change all that?
Oh for a few seasons of underachievement in twelfth or something.
What do you two actually want?
After 23 years supporting a great club I don't want to see them relegated with a whimper in 20th place. Mid-table seems attractive now an I am sure all villa fans would agree.
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We are far to nice to protest don't ya know, throughout our history we have been head shakers and tutterers anything more would be unseemly.
We never used to be. Doug Ellis only had to as much as fart and they'd be banners and marches and protests. That wasn't so long ago either. What happened to change all that?
Oh for a few seasons of underachievement in twelfth or something.
What do you two actually want?
After 23 years supporting a great club I don't want to see them relegated with a whimper in 20th place. Mid-table seems attractive now an I am sure all villa fans would agree.
So what do you want to do about it?
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We are far to nice to protest don't ya know, throughout our history we have been head shakers and tutterers anything more would be unseemly.
We never used to be. Doug Ellis only had to as much as fart and they'd be banners and marches and protests. That wasn't so long ago either. What happened to change all that?
Oh for a few seasons of underachievement in twelfth or something.
What do you two actually want?
I'd like to see Lerner out the fuckin door, or at least the fans protest against the man who has humiliated the club on a weekly basis for practically 5 years. What do you want?
So you want the same as he does, which would tend to make any sort of protest a bit pointless.
I disagree. Some fans may want to protest because they have a bit of pride left in the club, unlike the disgrace of a chairman.
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We are far to nice to protest don't ya know, throughout our history we have been head shakers and tutterers anything more would be unseemly.
We never used to be. Doug Ellis only had to as much as fart and they'd be banners and marches and protests. That wasn't so long ago either. What happened to change all that?
Oh for a few seasons of underachievement in twelfth or something.
What do you two actually want?
After 23 years supporting a great club I don't want to see them relegated with a whimper in 20th place. Mid-table seems attractive now an I am sure all villa fans would agree.
So what do you want to do about it?
You're the high profile fan, so what are you gonna do about it? Nothing?
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The big difference between Lerner and Ellis is, some people wanted Ellis out, he had no intention of leaving, so they protested. Some people want Lerner out, so does he. So what does a protest achieve? Sing "we want Lerner out" and he'll join in.
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The big difference between Lerner and Ellis is, some people wanted Ellis out, he had no intention of leaving, so they protested. Some people want Lerner out, so does he. So what does a protest achieve? Sing "we want Lerner out" and he'll join in.
As an overseas fan I am not going to get on my high horse about this. I am only expressing an opinion. There are better fans than me to comment on this matter but surely protest is as much about fans being able to register on record their disapproval as it is about 'achieving' something?
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The big difference between Lerner and Ellis is, some people wanted Ellis out, he had no intention of leaving, so they protested. Some people want Lerner out, so does he. So what does a protest achieve? Sing "we want Lerner out" and he'll join in.
Even if it achieves nothing the fans still have pride in their club. Better than just sitting there doing nothing.
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You're the high profile fan, so what are you gonna do about it? Nothing?
I'll carry on doing what I want to do. I'm not the one who keeps saying there should be protests.
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The big difference between Lerner and Ellis is, some people wanted Ellis out, he had no intention of leaving, so they protested. Some people want Lerner out, so does he. So what does a protest achieve? Sing "we want Lerner out" and he'll join in.
As an overseas fan I am not going to get on my high horse about this. I am only expressing an opinion. There are better fans than me to comment on this mattr but surely protest is as much about registering disapproval as it is about 'achieving' something?
I have a sneaky feeling they'll be well aware of the levels of disapproval.
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Now maybe we ought to get back to protests.
#prayforlipsil
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The big difference between Lerner and Ellis is, some people wanted Ellis out, he had no intention of leaving, so they protested. Some people want Lerner out, so does he. So what does a protest achieve? Sing "we want Lerner out" and he'll join in.
Even if it achieves nothing the fans still have pride in their club. Better than just sitting there doing nothing.
Surely though by waiting for someone else to do it, you are doing nothing? I'm doing nothing because I feel a protest is pointless as it won't achieve anything. If I wanted to protest though, i'd try and organise one or at least be trying to be in contact with those that can help organise it, although with social media it's not difficult to spread the word these days.
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The big difference between Lerner and Ellis is, some people wanted Ellis out, he had no intention of leaving, so they protested. Some people want Lerner out, so does he. So what does a protest achieve? Sing "we want Lerner out" and he'll join in.
Even if it achieves nothing the fans still have pride in their club. Better than just sitting there doing nothing.
Surely though by waiting for someone else to do it, you are doing nothing? I'm doing nothing because I feel a protest is pointless as it won't achieve anything. If I wanted to protest though, i'd try and organise one or at least be trying to be in contact with those that can help organise it, although with social media it's not difficult to spread the word these days.
I called out Lerner for what he was years ago while you were skipping in delight at the latest 'young and hungry' horse shit.
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The big difference between Lerner and Ellis is, some people wanted Ellis out, he had no intention of leaving, so they protested. Some people want Lerner out, so does he. So what does a protest achieve? Sing "we want Lerner out" and he'll join in.
Even if it achieves nothing the fans still have pride in their club. Better than just sitting there doing nothing.
Surely though by waiting for someone else to do it, you are doing nothing? I'm doing nothing because I feel a protest is pointless as it won't achieve anything. If I wanted to protest though, i'd try and organise one or at least be trying to be in contact with those that can help organise it, although with social media it's not difficult to spread the word these days.
As you say PWS, it is hard to pinpoint exactly what to protest against. I think most would want Lerner to move on, but as you say he wants that as well so that negates that. Also, I think most of us would agree that there is a danger of him becoming desperate to sell and offloading to a Carson Yeung / Venkys type of character.
We could protest against the manager, but I think most fans would accept that he has inherited a pretty thankless task and deserves to be given a chance. Who does that leave to protest against?
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The big difference between Lerner and Ellis is, some people wanted Ellis out, he had no intention of leaving, so they protested. Some people want Lerner out, so does he. So what does a protest achieve? Sing "we want Lerner out" and he'll join in.
Even if it achieves nothing the fans still have pride in their club. Better than just sitting there doing nothing.
Surely though by waiting for someone else to do it, you are doing nothing? I'm doing nothing because I feel a protest is pointless as it won't achieve anything. If I wanted to protest though, i'd try and organise one or at least be trying to be in contact with those that can help organise it, although with social media it's not difficult to spread the word these days.
I called out Lerner for what he was years ago while you were skipping in delight at the latest 'young and hungry' horse shit.
Quite what that has to do what I said and asked i'm not sure, but you sound delighted to be able to say "I told you we were shit" which is a tad bizarre.
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Quite what that has to do what I said and asked i'm not sure, but you sound delighted to be able to say "I told you we were shit" which is a tad bizarre.
Indeed. When I was you telling you we were in decline you were too busy dancing with delight at the latest Lerner PR stunt to notice.
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So you're delighted we're shit so you can gloat, and you still won't answer what I asked. Somehow neither surprise me.
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So you're delighted we're shit so you can gloat, and you still won't answer what I asked. Somehow neither surprise me.
I'm not delighted, I'm gutted about the state of the club. I'm also gutted it's taken this long for many of us to realise what Lerner has done to us.
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Well you said "indeed" when I said you seem delighted to be able to say it.
Now 4th time lucky, how about what I actually said and asked that you keep avoiding?
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Why should the fact that that Lerner has made it public knowledge that he wants to sell the club make him immune from demonstrations against his brand of "leadership" ?
For me it's irrelevant that he wants to sell.
He bought us , that was his decision and we are his responsibility until he sells.
The man is a multi millionaire and he could use that wealth to make us a genuine force, instead he chooses austerity for Aston Villa while he leads a lifestyle of champagne and oysters in the USA .
It's beyond a joke, we know they wouldn't tolerate this at Liverpool and we shouldn't tolerate it here.
My view is that any protest shouldn't be about "Lerner Out" it should be about getting him back here actually talking to the supporters explaining what he proposes to do and basically facing up to his responsibilities.
The wall of silence from him in the current situation is totally unacceptable.
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Why should the fact that that Lerner has made it public knowledge that he wants to sell the club make him immune from demonstrations against his brand of "leadership" ?
For me it's irrelevant that he wants to sell.
He bought us , that was his decision and we are his responsibility until he sells.
The man is a multi millionaire and he could use that wealth to make us a genuine force, instead he chooses austerity for Aston Villa while he leads a lifestyle of champagne and oysters in the USA .
It's beyond a joke, we know they wouldn't tolerate this at Liverpool and we shouldn't tolerate it here.
My view is that any protest shouldn't be about "Lerner Out" it should be about getting him back here actually talking to the supporters explaining what he proposes to do and basically facing up to his responsibilities.
The wall of silence from him in the current situation is totally unacceptable.
Understand your sentiments, but how do we go about doing that? What exactly can we do?
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Well you said "indeed" when I said you seem delighted to be able to say it.
Now 4th time lucky, how about what I actually said and asked that you keep avoiding?
Im not delighted no matter how may times to repeat it. I hate the state of the club that Lerner has turned us into. What is it your claiming I'm avoiding again?
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Well you said "indeed" when I said you seem delighted to be able to say it.
Now 4th time lucky, how about what I actually said and asked that you keep avoiding?
Im not delighted no matter how may times to repeat it. I hate the state of the club that Lerner has turned us into. What is it your claiming I'm avoiding again?
The big difference between Lerner and Ellis is, some people wanted Ellis out, he had no intention of leaving, so they protested. Some people want Lerner out, so does he. So what does a protest achieve? Sing "we want Lerner out" and he'll join in.
Even if it achieves nothing the fans still have pride in their club. Better than just sitting there doing nothing.
Surely though by waiting for someone else to do it, you are doing nothing? I'm doing nothing because I feel a protest is pointless as it won't achieve anything. If I wanted to protest though, i'd try and organise one or at least be trying to be in contact with those that can help organise it, although with social media it's not difficult to spread the word these days.
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Why should the fact that that Lerner has made it public knowledge that he wants to sell the club make him immune from demonstrations against his brand of "leadership" ?
For me it's irrelevant that he wants to sell.
He bought us , that was his decision and we are his responsibility until he sells.
The man is a multi millionaire and he could use that wealth to make us a genuine force, instead he chooses austerity for Aston Villa while he leads a lifestyle of champagne and oysters in the USA .
It's beyond a joke, we know they wouldn't tolerate this at Liverpool and we shouldn't tolerate it here.
My view is that any protest shouldn't be about "Lerner Out" it should be about getting him back here actually talking to the supporters explaining what he proposes to do and basically facing up to his responsibilities.
The wall of silence from him in the current situation is totally unacceptable.
Agreed. He owns us lock stock and barrel, and just because he's let it known he wants to sell doesn't mean he should wash his hands of all responsibility. He talked of being a custodian when he bought us yet he has humiliated the club left right and centre. The fans have every right to protest at his sabotage of the club.
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And no one has said you don't have the right, no one has tried to stop you protesting as far as I can tell. So organise it and protest as much as you want.
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There's actively wanting out and being receptive to the right offer.
I heard mentioned recently that a deal had been agreed in the summer but Lerner pulled the plug. He had earlier said that there was interest in buying the club from all four corners of the globe.
So I don't think it is a case of him wanting out and no sinner being interested. more that nobody is prepared to buy the club for close to the £200 million that Fulham went for in 2013.
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Well you said "indeed" when I said you seem delighted to be able to say it.
Now 4th time lucky, how about what I actually said and asked that you keep avoiding?
Im not delighted no matter how may times to repeat it. I hate the state of the club that Lerner has turned us into. What is it your claiming I'm avoiding again?
The big difference between Lerner and Ellis is, some people wanted Ellis out, he had no intention of leaving, so they protested. Some people want Lerner out, so does he. So what does a protest achieve? Sing "we want Lerner out" and he'll join in.
Even if it achieves nothing the fans still have pride in their club. Better than just sitting there doing nothing.
Surely though by waiting for someone else to do it, you are doing nothing? I'm doing nothing because I feel a protest is pointless as it won't achieve anything. If I wanted to protest though, i'd try and organise one or at least be trying to be in contact with those that can help organise it, although with social media it's not difficult to spread the word these days.
I answered that earlier. When you were dancing with delight at Lerner's latest PR stunt and actively defending him from any fan that dared criticise him on here I was calling him out for the shyster he clearly was and is to this day. That's a protest of sort. I've done my very best to call him out at every home game but despite that I'm not a high profile fan unlike others on here. Perhaps you should look yourself in the eye and ask what you have done as a contributer to the only independent Villa fanzine out there. What questions of the owner have you asked over the last 5 years of humiliating decline at Aston Villa? If I remember rightly you haven't questioned Lerner and the part he's played in our horrible decline. In fact you defend him. What do you say to that?
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I answered that earlier. When you were dancing with delight at Lerner's latest PR stunt and actively defending him from any fan that dared criticise him on here I was calling him out for the shyster he clearly was and is to this day. That's a protest of sort. I've done my very best to call him out at every home game but despite that I'm not a high profile fan unlike others on here. Perhaps you should look yourself in the eye and ask what you have done as a contributer to the only independent Villa fanzine out there. What questions of the owner have you asked over the last 5 years of humiliating decline at Aston Villa? If I remember rightly you haven't questioned Lerner and the part he's played in our horrible decline. In fact you defend him. What do you say to that?
PWS is not an H&V contributor.
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Why should the fact that that Lerner has made it public knowledge that he wants to sell the club make him immune from demonstrations against his brand of "leadership" ?
For me it's irrelevant that he wants to sell.
He bought us , that was his decision and we are his responsibility until he sells.
The man is a multi millionaire and he could use that wealth to make us a genuine force, instead he chooses austerity for Aston Villa while he leads a lifestyle of champagne and oysters in the USA .
It's beyond a joke, we know they wouldn't tolerate this at Liverpool and we shouldn't tolerate it here.
My view is that any protest shouldn't be about "Lerner Out" it should be about getting him back here actually talking to the supporters explaining what he proposes to do and basically facing up to his responsibilities.
The wall of silence from him in the current situation is totally unacceptable.
Agreed. He owns us lock stock and barrel, and just because he's let it known he wants to sell doesn't mean he should wash his hands of all responsibility. He talked of being a custodian when he bought us yet he has humiliated the club left right and centre. The fans have every right to protest at his sabotage of the club.
I think part of the problem is that we're not enough of a national concern for this to be national news and debated on national radio stations and in papers etc. On a local level, the local media seem reluctant to have a real go, probably fearful of suffering the same fate as Mat Kendrick when he did. The only ex-player seemingly willing to have a go is Collymore, but then that smacks as a touch of sour grapes after what happened to him.
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I've asked plenty at the SCGs, how many have you gone to? I've spoken at fair length to Faulkner face to face at a separate meeting when he was here. And trust me, or don't knowing you, but it was hardly "isn't it wonderful, isn't randy great" etc. Difference between us is I actually try and do something rather than just wait for someone else to do it for me.
As for being high profile, I wasn't, and am not, high profile in any way shape or form. Still got the 19th minute done because I wanted it done so did it. And as I said, I asked other for help to get it done.
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There's no sour grapes with Collymore. His criticisms of Villa didn't just start with him no longer contributing to the News and Record.
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To add to what Dave said, i've never had anything published in H&V, main reason being i've never sent anything in.
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I can't think of anyone worse to lead a protest than Stan Collymore.
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I've asked plenty at the SCGs, how many have you gone to? I've spoken at fair length to Faulkner face to face at a separate meeting when he was here. And trust me, or don't knowing you, but it was hardly "isn't it wonderful, isn't randy great" etc. Difference between us is I actually try and do something rather than just wait for someone else to do it for me.
As for being high profile, I wasn't, and am not, high profile in any way shape or form. Still got the 19th minute done because I wanted it done so did it. And as I said, I asked other for help to get it done.
I haven't been to any SCGs, but I've been a regular at Villa since '77 and a ST holder for most of the seasons since.
My problem with you is that you've defended him to the hilt on here for years while the club was going to ruin, but worst than that you've pounced on any post that dared to criticise him. I'll never understand that.
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I can't think of anyone worse to lead a protest than Stan Collymore.
Why don't you do it then? You're high profile, unless the Dave Woodhall I've seen and heard on radio and TV over the years is someone completely different. Surely you're not happy with Lerner's stewardship of our club?
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I've criticised Lerner, but I don't feel the need to say it dozens of times a day for effect. More importantly, i've said it to people where there is a chance it may make a difference, a very small chance, but more chance of it doing something than just calling him names on an internet forum.
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I can't think of anyone worse to lead a protest than Stan Collymore.
Why don't you do it then? You're high profile, unless the Dave Woodhall I've seen and heard on radio and TV over the years is someone completely different. Surely you're not happy with Lerner's stewardship of our club?
Thank you for believing that I'm so important I could lead an effective protest against a billionaire businessman on the other side of the Atlantic. However, as I've stated tonight and on many occasions that such a protest would be utterly pointless, I'll decline the offer.
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The last thing we need is a half hearted protest either parties get together or forget it. As for the target of any demonstration take your pick Lerner, Fox, the fact we still do not have a chairman. We are all supporters we are all angry at the position we are in lets not get personal we all want the best for our club.
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There's no sour grapes with Collymore. His criticisms of Villa didn't just start with him no longer contributing to the News and Record.
I agree with a lot of what a Stan has said about the club on the radio over the past few weeks, but what I meant was that I could see it being dismissed in some quarters as sour grapes.
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I've criticised Lerner, but I don't feel the need to say it dozens of times a day for effect. More importantly, i've said it to people where there is a chance it may make a difference, a very small chance, but more chance of it doing something than just calling him names on an internet forum.
If your criticisms of Lerner at the SCGs are as tough as the ones you've posted here I'm not surprised they've taken no notice of you. No offence but I can honestly say I've barely ever read a word of Lerner criticism from you.
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I can't think of anyone worse to lead a protest than Stan Collymore.
Why don't you do it then? You're high profile, unless the Dave Woodhall I've seen and heard on radio and TV over the years is someone completely different. Surely you're not happy with Lerner's stewardship of our club?
Thank you for believing that I'm so important I could lead an effective protest against a billionaire businessman on the other side of the Atlantic. However, as I've stated tonight and on many occasions that such a protest would be utterly pointless, I'll decline the offer.
Thought you would.
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I've criticised Lerner, but I don't feel the need to say it dozens of times a day for effect. More importantly, i've said it to people where there is a chance it may make a difference, a very small chance, but more chance of it doing something than just calling him names on an internet forum.
If your criticisms of Lerner at the SCGs are as tough as the ones you've posted here I'm not surprised they've taken no notice of you. No offence but I can honestly say I've barely ever read a word of Lerner criticism from you.
Maybe try doing something yourself then instead of waiting for others to do it for you, and then being snidey when they point out that they do actually do more than you do.
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I've criticised Lerner, but I don't feel the need to say it dozens of times a day for effect. More importantly, i've said it to people where there is a chance it may make a difference, a very small chance, but more chance of it doing something than just calling him names on an internet forum.
If your criticisms of Lerner at the SCGs are as tough as the ones you've posted here I'm not surprised they've taken no notice of you. No offence but I can honestly say I've barely ever read a word of Lerner criticism from you.
Maybe try doing something yourself then instead of waiting for others to do it for you, and then being snidey when they point out that they do actually do more than you do.
You've posted many a snide post on here yourself so let's not pretend you're any different.
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Closest I came is saying I wasn't surprised at a couple of things in one post, and pointing out that you don't seem to want to actually do anything to change things. Nearly every post you've done to me in this convo has had digs in it.
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I can't think of anyone worse to lead a protest than Stan Collymore.
Why don't you do it then? You're high profile, unless the Dave Woodhall I've seen and heard on radio and TV over the years is someone completely different. Surely you're not happy with Lerner's stewardship of our club?
Thank you for believing that I'm so important I could lead an effective protest against a billionaire businessman on the other side of the Atlantic. However, as I've stated tonight and on many occasions that such a protest would be utterly pointless, I'll decline the offer.
Thought you would.
This seems to be headed down a familiar road.
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Closest I came is saying I wasn't surprised at a couple of things in one post, and pointing out that you don't seem to want to actually do anything to change things. Nearly every post you've done to me in this convo has had digs in it.
Of course you've never had a dig at me on here.
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Closest I came is saying I wasn't surprised at a couple of things in one post, and pointing out that you don't seem to want to actually do anything to change things. Nearly every post you've done to me in this convo has had digs in it.
Of course you've never had a dig at me on here.
Hold it there. This is going nowhere and it's time you were off for the evening.
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Closest I came is saying I wasn't surprised at a couple of things in one post, and pointing out that you don't seem to want to actually do anything to change things. Nearly every post you've done to me in this convo has had digs in it.
Of course you've never had a dig at me on here.
Grow up you sad prick!!!
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Closest I came is saying I wasn't surprised at a couple of things in one post, and pointing out that you don't seem to want to actually do anything to change things. Nearly every post you've done to me in this convo has had digs in it.
Of course you've never had a dig at me on here.
Grow up you sad prick!!!
Less of that as well.
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Closest I came is saying I wasn't surprised at a couple of things in one post, and pointing out that you don't seem to want to actually do anything to change things. Nearly every post you've done to me in this convo has had digs in it.
Of course you've never had a dig at me on here.
Grow up you sad prick!!!
Ha!
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We weren't searched going into the Trinity for the West Ham game; I had a flask the size of a World War Two Luftwaffe bomb hidden in my blanket.
Again, it underlines the pointlessness. Yet we were instructed to undo our jackets at the WHU game, as for the previous game.
The way things are going the next time they ask me to undo my jacket before the match I will presume I'm getting a game.
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Right, I'm up for it, I'll even actually attend a game just to take part, so come on Saunders, when is the protest and what are we doing?
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The problem with Saunders Heroes and his "calling them out for years" line is that it always comes back to the same basic complaint and that is Lerner must spend more.
You cannot just blindly demand he piss more and more money down the drain.
I have met Fox a few times now and can assure they are very much aware of (and in agreement with) our issues over how the club has been run for many years. Whether you rate Fix or not, he at least is trying to put in place the structure we should have had from day one.
As for the protest, there is little point protesting at anything without a clear aim. The line here seems to be the whole point is to let people know we are pissed off. They know that very well.
Lee Preece spends a fair chunk of his week looking at what is being discussed on the forums and reports this back to the board.
If you are determined to protest at Lerner, Fox, Almstadt et al, you have to be clear on what they have done incorrectly in your view.
Now I fully intend to twist the knife on Fox about his Sherwood appointment at the Trust AGM (there wasn't time at the meeting before the Arsenal game). That is one where there are facts he can't escape from of his own doing. Protesting about Almstadt being a shit scout won't work, for example, as he has fuck all to do with recruitment.
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I fear you are in a hiding to nothing Stuart but I acknowledge your balls in at least making an organised presentation of the car crash.
The huge dichotomy is that so many still want a Chinese trillionaire to enable us to outspend the competition. Those days are long gone and pining for them makes matters worse. Our financial chickens have come home to roost and we have to deal with it.
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Just the sort of childish rubbish that is unfortunately all too-prevalent on this site, and which encourages other illiterate morons to try to emulate it.
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I'm sure everybody is just as pissed off as you, but I'm afraid the sad situation is that all of the above would achieve nothing. We have an owner who wants to sell, but can't, and overall doesn't give a toss. We're down and out, and sadly there's not a lot we can do to improve the situation.
We could at least poke fun at Lerner, that sack of crap.
We have let him off so easy over the last 3 or 4 years, and have always called for the managers head instead. Now we know that no matter who Randy puts where NOTHING changes.
Can we at least send some poo to his doorstep?
Just the sort of childish rubbish that is unfortunately all too-prevalent on this site, and which encourages other illiterate morons to try to emulate it.
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Speaking of childish nonsense, it would be quite amusing to see everyone go down to Villa Park with their football boots or gloves in the hope of a game.
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My head understands on an intellectual level that protesting against a bloke who wants out anyway is pointless and that there isn't a white knight with a pot of hold about to ride to the rescue. My heart tells me, however, that I ought to be doing something rather than just sitting on my hands as we sink below the waves, even if it is just a cathartic raging against the dying of the light.
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I may tweet a £ character to @AVFCofficial.
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Speaking of childish nonsense, it would be quite amusing to see everyone go down to Villa Park with their football boots or gloves in the hope of a game.
With a pitch invasion before the kick off. The stewards would clear everyone off except 297 bald blokes of different shapes and sizes all claiming to be the real Brad Guzan.
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They would also have to find the real Jack Grealish among 862 skinny young blokes wandering around the pitch with a pint of Carlsberg and a tray of chips and curry sauce.
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When you have an owner wanting to sell what can a protest achieve? Perhaps it might make one or two of the protesters feel a bit better but the following day we will still be in exactly the same position. It is the equivalent of going round to your neighbours house who has a For Sale sign in the garden and demanding that he sell it.
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Speaking of childish nonsense, it would be quite amusing to see everyone go down to Villa Park with their football boots or gloves in the hope of a game.
Gloves? What kind of Johnny Foreigner fancy Dan are you?
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We could protest to the Premier League that we want to leave.
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I can't think of anyone worse to lead a protest than Stan Collymore.
Why don't you do it then? You're high profile, unless the Dave Woodhall I've seen and heard on radio and TV over the years is someone completely different. Surely you're not happy with Lerner's stewardship of our club?
Thank you for believing that I'm so important I could lead an effective protest against a billionaire businessman on the other side of the Atlantic. However, as I've stated tonight and on many occasions that such a protest would be utterly pointless, I'll decline the offer.
I truly believe you could do it though Dave, you are far and away the most qualified person on here to do so, I think you'd make an excellent focal point for the fans' frustration
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I'm sure everybody is just as pissed off as you, but I'm afraid the sad situation is that all of the above would achieve nothing. We have an owner who wants to sell, but can't, and overall doesn't give a toss. We're down and out, and sadly there's not a lot we can do to improve the situation.
We could at least poke fun at Lerner, that sack of crap.
We have let him off so easy over the last 3 or 4 years, and have always called for the managers head instead. Now we know that no matter who Randy puts where NOTHING changes.
Can we at least send some poo to his doorstep?
Just the sort of childish rubbish that is unfortunately all too-prevalent on this site, and which encourages other illiterate morons to try to emulate it.
Ok Alan,get a grip. Waving the reality stick. People express their discontent in a variety of ways.
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Now maybe we ought to get back to protests.
#prayforlipsil
Oh really? There goes another rib.
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We could protest to the Premier League that we want to leave.
They'll allow that one - the Premier League
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We could try these
1. Next home game, every 10 minutes, someone needs to run on the pitch and throw a season card at Remi.
2. Simultaneously, someone in the Trinity needs to get in to the executive area and throw a season card at Fox.
3. Effigies of Randy should be burnt at the front of the Holte.
4. A hunger strike, someone sitting on the steps of the Holte refusing to eat or drink until we either win a game or Lerner sells up, whatever comes first.
5. Someone needs to get down Bodymoor Heath after hours and spray paint '' You're all dog shit'' on the walls.
6. Find out where the players live and start robbing their homes during the matches with the intention that it will stop them from leaving home on matchdays and we will have to play someone else in their places.
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Randy is a poor businessman, he's priced the club too highly and as such he's been unable to sell. Now he's fucked it Right up and I can't see anyone buying us now
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Speaking of childish nonsense, it would be quite amusing to see everyone go down to Villa Park with their football boots or gloves in the hope of a game.
This is a great idea, if everyone took their boots, security would have to let us in...Then when each player drops an absolute bollock, we all chuck our boots at him in protest (See Bush/Iraq/Shoe Protest)...Of course, there is a high probability that Guzan and Richardson might become the first people in modern times to die 'by stoning' in a civilised country, but hey ho...
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I'm sure everybody is just as pissed off as you, but I'm afraid the sad situation is that all of the above would achieve nothing. We have an owner who wants to sell, but can't, and overall doesn't give a toss. We're down and out, and sadly there's not a lot we can do to improve the situation.
We could at least poke fun at Lerner, that sack of crap.
We have let him off so easy over the last 3 or 4 years, and have always called for the managers head instead. Now we know that no matter who Randy puts where NOTHING changes.
Can we at least send some poo to his doorstep?
Just the sort of childish rubbish that is unfortunately all too-prevalent on this site, and which encourages other illiterate morons to try to emulate it.
. Waving the reality stick.
Don't wave that thing at me, I'm happy this way.
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The question I think needs answering is what are the contingency plans being put in place for our Championship season?
How do they plan to get us promoted?
Unfortunately I believe the management at AVFC are simply waiting for the club to be sold so they can bail out to other clubs/businesses leaving us with new owners, new administrators and, possibly, coaching staff in an environment very different to the Premier League.
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The question I think needs answering is what are the contingency plans being put in place for our Championship season?
How do they plan to get us promoted?
I admire the optimism of anyone who thinks the club had any kind of plan for anything at the moment.
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The question I think needs answering is what are the contingency plans being put in place for our Championship season?
How do they plan to get us promoted?
This is the crux for me now too. We all want Lerner to sell, none more so than Randy himself, but planning for next season must start now. No idiotic short term, high wage purchases with relegation clauses, that ship has sailed.
We have a window next season to get ths right, we cannot waste it due to poor planning and head in the sand decisions again. I won't hold my breath............,
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The problem with Saunders Heroes and his "calling them out for years" line is that it always comes back to the same basic complaint and that is Lerner must spend more.
You cannot just blindly demand he piss more and more money down the drain.
I have met Fox a few times now and can assure they are very much aware of (and in agreement with) our issues over how the club has been run for many years. Whether you rate Fix or not, he at least is trying to put in place the structure we should have had from day one.
As for the protest, there is little point protesting at anything without a clear aim. The line here seems to be the whole point is to let people know we are pissed off. They know that very well.
Lee Preece spends a fair chunk of his week looking at what is being discussed on the forums and reports this back to the board.
If you are determined to protest at Lerner, Fox, Almstadt et al, you have to be clear on what they have done incorrectly in your view.
Now I fully intend to twist the knife on Fox about his Sherwood appointment at the Trust AGM (there wasn't time at the meeting before the Arsenal game). That is one where there are facts he can't escape from of his own doing. Protesting about Almstadt being a shit scout won't work, for example, as he has fuck all to do with recruitment.
I like the sound of Lee's job! Get paid to read H&V and then talk about it.
Lee, if you're reading this, give me a heads up if you ever decide to change jobs. Cheers.
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Now maybe we ought to get back to protests.
#prayforlipsil
Oh really? There goes another rib.
Don't pay him any lip service
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To add to what Dave said, i've never had anything published in H&V, main reason being i've never sent anything in.
:-[ :-[ :-[
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The question I think needs answering is what are the contingency plans being put in place for our Championship season?
How do they plan to get us promoted?
I admire the optimism of anyone who thinks the club had any kind of plan for anything at the moment.
It's not optimism Richard it is the reality - It is time to plan not protest (although I understand the reasons people wish to do this)
We are about to have the biggest change in 30 years as we are relegated and unless we are prepared the outcome could be long-term further decline
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When you have an owner wanting to sell what can a protest achieve? Perhaps it might make one or two of the protesters feel a bit better but the following day we will still be in exactly the same position. It is the equivalent of going round to your neighbours house who has a For Sale sign in the garden and demanding that he sell it.
That's my overall take on it as well. He wants to sell and we know he wants to sell. The main thing is that he sells to the right people.
That said, if people feel strongly enough to protest then fine. Not everyone will want to though and that's fine too.
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The question I think needs answering is what are the contingency plans being put in place for our Championship season?
How do they plan to get us promoted?
This is the crux for me now too. We all want Lerner to sell, none more so than Randy himself, but planning for next season must start now. No idiotic short term, high wage purchases with relegation clauses, that ship has sailed.
We have a window next season to get ths right, we cannot waste it due to poor planning and head in the sand decisions again. I won't hold my breath............,
For me this is the difficult question for Fox etc because it is asking them what they are planning to do - something they can be held to (or at least repeated back to them) - what has been has been and we have no way of holding them to account whatever we may wish to believe
Therefore Mr Fox what are your plans and how are the fans factored into that on an involved basis (not just turning up and paying money)?
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When you have an owner wanting to sell what can a protest achieve? Perhaps it might make one or two of the protesters feel a bit better but the following day we will still be in exactly the same position. It is the equivalent of going round to your neighbours house who has a For Sale sign in the garden and demanding that he sell it.
That's my overall take on it as well. He wants to sell and we know he wants to sell. The main thing is that he sells to the right people.
That said, if people feel strongly enough to protest then fine. Not everyone will want to though and that's fine too.
Agree Clampy - we know he wants to sell and neither he nor we have any control over that outcome - protests will make fans feel better (including me) but are soporifics
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Having thought about this, any protest need not be complex.
As much as its been stated that Lerner wants to sell (to be honest, I've read conflicting quotes from the board about how motivated or not he actually is to sell) and that any protest would be meaningless, and as much as the board spend time on the fora and so know the discontent amongst the support, it is natural that the support want to do something, anything.
The simplest think to do is for people (as many as are motivated) to use a white A4 sheet with a question on it in bold, black, clear lettering:
Where's Randy?
When will we win again?
Who is our leader?
Anything that the holder of an A4 sheet wants to ask, hold it up after that outsized flag has passed over our heads before kick off. Hold it up for only a minute or two, up until kick off. It won't achieve anything in truth, but at least you'd have done *something* to indicate that you're not happy with the current position.
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I have met Fox a few times now and can assure they are very much aware of (and in agreement with) our issues over how the club has been run for many years. Whether you rate Fix or not, he at least is trying to put in place the structure we should have had from day one.
Thanks for the post Stu. Just to pick you up on that one point, Fox may say that he's aware of the problems, but it seems very much from the outside that since Fox came in, he's turned a bad situation into an absolutely desperate one. When you strip it back, a Premier League football club is a fairly straight forward business. You have a captive audience base, and a customer in Sky who guarantee you 75% of an extremely hefty income. The main things you have to get right from an ownership perspective are:
Pick the right manager
Support him with the cash for buying the right players and/or developing an academy
Have a philosophy as to how you want the club to grow, and most importantly, stay in the Premier League!
Now, ignoring the stuff that happened before Fox, since he arrived we've:
Given Lambert a new contract after winning three games
Dispensed with him and given a talentless chancer like Sherwood the job
Put together some awful transfer committee, the combined talents of which decided that replacing Benteke with Gestede would be a good idea
Replaced a typically British manager in Sherwood with a continental one in Garde
Allowed Garde to continue with virtually no support staff
Come out with some absolute crap in the media about "things only being bad if you look at the table" and "we're building something special here".
If he HAS got some big plans to improve things, he'd do well to communicate them, as from where I'm sat he's the latest in a line of poor Lerner appointments, who is making things up as he goes along.
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When you have an owner wanting to sell what can a protest achieve? Perhaps it might make one or two of the protesters feel a bit better but the following day we will still be in exactly the same position. It is the equivalent of going round to your neighbours house who has a For Sale sign in the garden and demanding that he sell it.
That's my overall take on it as well. He wants to sell and we know he wants to sell. The main thing is that he sells to the right people.
That said, if people feel strongly enough to protest then fine. Not everyone will want to though and that's fine too.
Agree Clampy - we know he wants to sell and neither he nor we have any control over that outcome - protests will make fans feel better (including me) but are soporifics
By right people the only thing Lerner would care about is if they've got the asking price. I think he'd snap the hand off Kim Jong Un if he ponied up £150m.
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The question I think needs answering is what are the contingency plans being put in place for our Championship season?
How do they plan to get us promoted?
This is the crux for me now too. We all want Lerner to sell, none more so than Randy himself, but planning for next season must start now. No idiotic short term, high wage purchases with relegation clauses, that ship has sailed.
We have a window next season to get ths right, we cannot waste it due to poor planning and head in the sand decisions again. I won't hold my breath............,
For me this is the difficult question for Fox etc because it is asking them what they are planning to do - something they can be held to (or at least repeated back to them) - what has been has been and we have no way of holding them to account whatever we may wish to believe
Therefore Mr Fox what are your plans and how are the fans factored into that on an involved basis (not just turning up and paying money)?
A year ago he was talking about establishing a football style which doesn't change with a change of manager. Something like you see at Southampton or Swansea - so a change of manager doesn't mean a 'back to square one' as a new approach beds in. I think I'd like to know how this lines up with the progression through Lambert, Sherwood, Garde.
As for protest, I'm just struggling to see how rioting fans make a club that is up for sale easier to sell. When people say we used to protest against Ellis and they can't understand where that energy has gone, for me at least it's that Ellis did go, but look what we ended up with. The are worse Chairman out there than Randy Lerner (and that isn't exactly meant as a complimentary defence of him), and I think I have just learn't to be careful what I wish for. I don't know if that's just me, or if others feel the same and that is why there isn't the movement for protest.
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#PrayForLipsil
Oh fuckoff
Your next post will be an apology, won't it?
Glenn Peen - I am sorry i was abusive to you.
I offer an apology to someone who rarely posts but takes the opportunity to take the piss despite me trying to make a point about so-called "enhanced security." This on top of one of the mod team making glib statements about internal cavity searches in response to me making a point, although I agree it was off topic somewhat.
And while my action was not appropriate I will point out that in over ten thousand posts going back over a decade I have never told any one to fuck off before on this forum, despite having the opportunity to do so.
Now maybe we ought to get back to protests.
Thanks for the apology, Chris Harte - I'm slightly disturbed that I'm the only person you've said rude words to in a decade. I regularly swear at people, including that man from Central News and Barry Scott from the Cillit Bang adverts.
Also, don't take things personally. I wasn't - as you described - 'taking the piss'. I simply felt for the poor Lipsil. It seemed a shame that the little tin chap might be blown up, which is why I wrote #PrayForLipsil.
Life is to be enjoyed, not suffered. Remember that, Chris Harte.
As for protests, I'd go dirty. All over Fox's car.
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I have met Fox a few times now and can assure they are very much aware of (and in agreement with) our issues over how the club has been run for many years. Whether you rate Fix or not, he at least is trying to put in place the structure we should have had from day one.
Thanks for the post Stu. Just to pick you up on that one point, Fox may say that he's aware of the problems, but it seems very much from the outside that since Fox came in, he's turned a bad situation into an absolutely desperate one. When you strip it back, a Premier League football club is a fairly straight forward business. You have a captive audience base, and a customer in Sky who guarantee you 75% of an extremely hefty income. The main things you have to get right from an ownership perspective are:
Pick the right manager
Support him with the cash for buying the right players and/or developing an academy
Have a philosophy as to how you want the club to grow, and most importantly, stay in the Premier League!
Now, ignoring the stuff that happened before Fox, since he arrived we've:
Given Lambert a new contract after winning three games
Dispensed with him and given a talentless chancer like Sherwood the job
Put together some awful transfer committee, the combined talents of which decided that replacing Benteke with Gestede would be a good idea
Replaced a typically British manager in Sherwood with a continental one in Garde
Allowed Garde to continue with virtually no support staff
Come out with some absolute crap in the media about "things only being bad if you look at the table" and "we're building something special here".
If he HAS got some big plans to improve things, he'd do well to communicate them, as from where I'm sat he's the latest in a line of poor Lerner appointments, who is making things up as he goes along.
Sherwood is very much on him. And he most certainly doesn't help himself with some of his utterances, which might be an effort to reassure us, but come across as bollocks when seen in conjunction with the chaos at the club.
However, because he has got some things wrong, doesn't mean he it is fair to blame him for everything.
He is responsible for leaving Lambert in post for too long (apparently because he had some sympathy that the running of the club had not helped him out) but not his contract. That was well under way before he arrived.
And can we debunk the transfer committee thing. I know bullshit when I hear it and what he told us about transfers before the Arsenal game was on the level.
Whether he has the wherewithal to turn this round then that might be a different matter but he isn't the pillock he is painted as. It is more a question as to whether he adds much more than a bit of business acumen and being a polished performer.
Like I say, the Trust AGM will be interesting to see how he performs when pulled up on stuff that he has demonstrably got wrong.
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The most you will get from Fox, which I can understand, is that 'lessons need to be learnt'.
That's the last line when things have gone dramatically tits up.
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What is a protest going to achieve?
"LERNER OUT!"
"Er, I'm trying to sell the club already."
"UMMMMM....."
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When I started this post I was looking for the AGM as a potential opportunity to make an organised co-ordinated approach to the event rather than to let the club be able to get away with answering some very difficult questions. In respect to protests I agree this will not work without a lot of co-ordination - anger gets you nowhere - however sitting on our hands achieves the same result.
Randy Lerner biggest mistake right now is a lack of interest and his continued silence. That spreads throughout the club and has resulted in the malaise we all experience right now including us as fans. He has spent a lot of money and quite frankly has been let down by mismanagement by others but ultimately he employed them and therefore he is responsible.
Having slept on things I cannot accept this squad is worse than the Watford, Norwich, Sunderland, Bournemouth teams and isn't far behind the likes of WBA, Swansea, Newcastle and even dare I say it Leicester. Watford bought more players in this summer and yet are flying high whilst Bournemouth spent very little lost many of there best players (Wilson aka Benteke) and yet are still fighting hard in the bottom six. Why should we just accept how bad we are?
Mr Lerner is the reason we should be a bottom six club but the mismanagement throughout the club is the reason we are sitting on eight points and cut adrift.
In the summer we spent much more than the promoted clubs and others but yet we are atrocious. For me this is because we bought players the previous manager did not really want and we have many players who lack hunger discipline, confidence and generally do not care enough for the club.
Garde was not the manager to bring the much needed discipline needed to get the best out of these players and give them confidence. The players are much better than they are showing and for me this is down to the manager and the players themselves.
We are relegated and this must not be allowed to happen again (if we ever get promoted again) and it is now an opportunity to change the setup of this great club.
Firstly questions need to be asked of how has this happened:-
1. Can the club confirm how much was spent on players in the summer? Were the French players bought at the values quoted in the media or are a number based on increased value dependent on performance (This would then give a clear idea of how much was spent in the summer - rather than the conjecture of circa 50m).
2. Given the performance of the club on the pitch and the number of players bought in the summer who are playing if we are relegated who is responsible for the purchase of these players and will anyone be held account.
3. Can the club confirm if any of the players are on a reduction in wages if relegation occurs.
4. Can the club confirm the theory of employing the current manager who has no premier league experience - rather than available managers who have a wealth of experience in the current league.
5. Given the time again what would the club have done different in the summer and since to try to ensure this situation does not happen again.
What next
1. Can the club confirm why a new Chairman still has not been appointed
2. Why do the club not have a footballing expert on the board - ex player etc?
3. Since the summer there has not been any announcements on the sale of the club. Why is communication so poor - do the fans not deserve a right to be updated?
4. Given the performance on the pitch can the club insist on the players making a gesture towards the cost of travel/tickets to the rest of the seasons away games. Also do you think it is acceptable that on many occasions the team leave the pitch before thanking the away support.
5. With relegation a certainty can you advise what measures the Club are putting into place for the Championship. Will many of the players be sold?
There are questions there that Im sure wont be answered - but perhaps we can arrange many to email the same questions to Fox, Lee Preece from next week with others. We could agree 10 key questions and if say 100 of us email then surely they will get the hint?
It is not about rioting, anger it is about us as fans holding the club to account and demanding some answers and commit that the wrongs will be eventually righted
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We protested against Ellis - and all those marches, banners, meetings, leaflets, chants, moved his departure forward not one second and that was when we kidded ourselves that there was someone out there who would cut the shackles and send us soaring to the heavens because, well, because there just was. We are Aston Villa so it stands to reason. Now, things are very different not least because you're looking at the best part of £250 million just for starters.
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How committed are we to finding a buyer?
We hear different utterances depending on how badly we've done the previous few months. Couple of good results and we hear that he's motivated and enjoying owning us again. End of a poor season and it's Randy Loser wants to sell again.
It seems to me like he's as haphazard about selling the club as he is in every other aspect of running a football club and if there's a way to scupper and fuck up selling a club then this is the pillock to find it. He's not a business man and he's not a sports club owner, he's a daddy's boy who got given a load of money and plays at doing things.
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When I started this post I was looking for the AGM as a potential opportunity to make an organised co-ordinated approach to the event rather than to let the club be able to get away with answering some very difficult questions. In respect to protests I agree this will not work without a lot of co-ordination - anger gets you nowhere - however sitting on our hands achieves the same result.
Sorry to snip all your well-made points Loxton1 but just to say I agree that we need to agree some of the questions otherwise there will be duplication (there needs to be room for individuals to ask as well) - you have covered the points I would like asked - maybe members can ask pre-arranged questions? Will anyone be taking notes? I shall try but my scribble tends to be indecipherable even to me afterwards.
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The big difference between Lerner and Ellis is, some people wanted Ellis out, he had no intention of leaving, so they protested. Some people want Lerner out, so does he. So what does a protest achieve? Sing "we want Lerner out" and he'll join in.
Even if it achieves nothing the fans still have pride in their club. Better than just sitting there doing nothing.
Any protest needs to be well thought out and more targeted. Singing we want Lerner out when he apparently wants out won't achieve anything. Perhaps encouraging him to continue to be the so called custodian of the club might be better.
Starting with stop employing utterly under qualified people to run a multi million pound business who's raison detre is to provide entertainment and results on a football pitch. Leaving it to rot and die a slow, painful death is not being a custodian of anything.
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We protested against Ellis - and all those marches, banners, meetings, leaflets, chants, moved his departure forward not one second and that was when we kidded ourselves that there was someone out there who would cut the shackles and send us soaring to the heavens because, well, because there just was. We are Aston Villa so it stands to reason. Now, things are very different not least because you're looking at the best part of £250 million just for starters.
The £ sign protest had an effect didn't it?
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We protested against Ellis - and all those marches, banners, meetings, leaflets, chants, moved his departure forward not one second and that was when we kidded ourselves that there was someone out there who would cut the shackles and send us soaring to the heavens because, well, because there just was. We are Aston Villa so it stands to reason. Now, things are very different not least because you're looking at the best part of £250 million just for starters.
The fans still have pride in the club even if the owner hasn't. It'd be worth staging just for that alone. We should remember we're still a big club.
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How committed are we to finding a buyer?
We hear different utterances depending on how badly we've done the previous few months. Couple of good results and we hear that he's motivated and enjoying owning us again. End of a poor season and it's Randy Loser wants to sell again.
It seems to me like he's as haphazard about selling the club as he is in every other aspect of running a football club and if there's a way to scupper and fuck up selling a club then this is the pillock to find it. He's not a business man and he's not a sports club owner, he's a daddy's boy who got given a load of money and plays at doing things.
Word is,He is not easy to do business with, he is aloof. Passed off as being shy. That does not alter the fact that he is operating in a buyers market, there is not a que of people linning up to buy Villa or any Championship Club.Even if we were a top 10 PL club he would struggle to recoup his investment. Now he has no chance of selling without taking a £200mil hit.
I bet he is kicking himself that he didn't take the discussions he had 18 months ago a little more seriously.
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I think he gave up any thoughts of recouping his investment the day he sacked McLeish, maybe even as far back as when MON flounced off. Everything since has been about making the club financially fit for sale, although to achieve that he had to convert the last £90M of loans to equity. He's just completely f##ked up by not managing the playing side doing it, which in turn was largely caused by a lack of footballing experience from day 1.
No outstanding debt in the accounts - Check
Wages as % of turnover at acceptable level - Check
Wages bill commensurate with mid table stability - Check
Stable backroom staff and playing squad ready to push on - OH F##K.
If the whispers and rumours of Lambert never spending all of the money available are true, I wonder how much he didn't spend last summer. A centre back that wasn't Senderos to make up the 5 there and another defensive midfielder to share the work with Delph and Sanchez that were bedded in by now, even if they'd come from a foreign league or The Championship, even 2/3 decent would have made such a difference by now.
No need to play Richards at CB instead of RB, regardless of circumstances, less pressure on Veretout as he adapts to the league and the only remaining burgeoning problem would have been finding an adequate centre forward.
We wouldn't have been fantastic, but we'd have been a darn sight more solid.
As an aside had Cissokho and Bennett been loaned out before the squad numbers deadline? If so why the bleeding hell didn't Nice But Tim fill one of the spots with Senderos?
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We protested against Ellis - and all those marches, banners, meetings, leaflets, chants, moved his departure forward not one second and that was when we kidded ourselves that there was someone out there who would cut the shackles and send us soaring to the heavens because, well, because there just was. We are Aston Villa so it stands to reason. Now, things are very different not least because you're looking at the best part of £250 million just for starters.
The fans still have pride in the club even if the owner hasn't. It'd be worth staging just for that alone. We should remember we're still a big club.
Go and start one then. Nobody's stopping you.
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I would have thought that the one thing we all agree on is that Lerner's running of the club since 2010 has been completely unacceptable.
The reason we are going to be relegated is entirely his responsibility, if keeping Aston Villa in the premier league was a priority for him then this wouldn't be happening.
So we have the ridiculous situation of a multimillionaire owner with a seemingly ambivalent attitude to the fortunes of the club that he owns. That has to change.
The last game he went to was the FA cup final. He would have seen then that we required an urgent injection of premier league quality and experience in the close season , but again for the 4th season running he chose to play fast and loose risking everything on unproven players.
Lerner could take another 10 years trying to find a buyer, we can't continue letting him off the hook because he wants to sell the club.
It's the here and now that we are dealing with , and whether he likes it or not Lerner owns the biggest club in the second city not some tin pot outfit, and he cannot continue to shirk his responsibilities just because he claims the club is for sale.
He should be made to understand that silence is no longer an option he must communicate with the supporters (an apology would be a good starting point) and assure us that he will do everything in his power to ensure that we are promoted as swiftly as possible with the objective thereafter of the club competing properly in the premier league, in a manner befitting a club of our standing.
I don't know about demonstrations as such, I just believe that somehow we have to get it through to Lerner that he cannot continue to run Aston Villa in this manner, the club and the supporters deserve far better than this from him.
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Maybe when gates are down to fifteen thousand he will wake up but I wouldn't guarantee it. He seems typical of someone who has enough money not to care.
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We protested against Ellis - and all those marches, banners, meetings, leaflets, chants, moved his departure forward not one second and that was when we kidded ourselves that there was someone out there who would cut the shackles and send us soaring to the heavens because, well, because there just was. We are Aston Villa so it stands to reason. Now, things are very different not least because you're looking at the best part of £250 million just for starters.
The fans still have pride in the club even if the owner hasn't. It'd be worth staging just for that alone. We should remember we're still a big club.
Go and start one then. Nobody's stopping you.
Not as eloquent or as high profile as you Dave, and that's what's needed. Perhaps Howard Hodgson could do something. He clearly sussed out Lerner way before the majority of us.
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The guy has made it clear he wants to sell , he is also well aware the fans are not happy.
He wants out and we want him out but unless someone comes along with an offer we are both stuck.Protesting will get some media coverage but IMO it won't change anything.
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It might make him hurry up a little.
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We protested against Ellis - and all those marches, banners, meetings, leaflets, chants, moved his departure forward not one second and that was when we kidded ourselves that there was someone out there who would cut the shackles and send us soaring to the heavens because, well, because there just was. We are Aston Villa so it stands to reason. Now, things are very different not least because you're looking at the best part of £250 million just for starters.
The fans still have pride in the club even if the owner hasn't. It'd be worth staging just for that alone. We should remember we're still a big club.
Go and start one then. Nobody's stopping you.
Not as eloquent or as high profile as you Dave, and that's what's needed. Perhaps Howard Hodgson could do something. He clearly sussed out Lerner way before the majority of us.
How many times do I have to say it? I don't think there is any point. I have neither the time, nor the inclination. Now please can that be an end to it.
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It might make him hurry up a little.
It may even remind him he actually owns a magnificent football club that he's running into the ground with his austerity.
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The guy has made it clear he wants to sell , he is also well aware the fans are not happy.
He wants out and we want him out but unless someone comes along with an offer we are both stuck.Protesting will get some media coverage but IMO it won't change anything.
Does he though? The article is almost a year old, but...
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/422538/Randy-Lerner-NOT-sell-Aston-Villa-Tom-Fox
Chief executive Tom Fox said: "I don't think he is a motivated seller right now."
So has that changed since? There was someone with exclusivity in the summer supposedly, but this came to nothing.
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Howard Hodgson is a jolly good shout, it's worth asking him I think. He's on twitter, try sending him a tweet and he's also on tbar. Try both though in case he doesn't respond to either.
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Howard Hodgson is a jolly good shout, it's worth asking him I think. He's on twitter, try sending him a tweet and he's also on tbar. Try both though in case he doesn't respond to either.
Jolly good! He sounds great, and crikey did he see through Lerner's bullshit way way before so many.
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Howard Hodgson is a jolly good shout, it's worth asking him I think. He's on twitter, try sending him a tweet and he's also on tbar. Try both though in case he doesn't respond to either.
Jolly good! He sounds great, and crikey did he see through Lerner's bullshit way way before so many.
Well, what are you waiting for? Send him that tweet or ask him on tbar. It sounds like you want to.
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Howard Hodgson is a jolly good shout, it's worth asking him I think. He's on twitter, try sending him a tweet and he's also on tbar. Try both though in case he doesn't respond to either.
Jolly good! He sounds great, and crikey did he see through Lerner's bullshit way way before so many.
Well, what are you waiting for? Send him that tweet or ask him on tbar. It sounds like you want to.
I remember the grief he used to get on here but it turns out he was right about Lerner.
Yes, I must tweet him!
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Howard Hodgson is a jolly good shout, it's worth asking him I think. He's on twitter, try sending him a tweet and he's also on tbar. Try both though in case he doesn't respond to either.
Jolly good! He sounds great, and crikey did he see through Lerner's bullshit way way before so many.
Well, what are you waiting for? Send him that tweet or ask him on tbar. It sounds like you want to.
I remember the grief he used to get on here but it turns out he was right about Lerner.
Yes, I must tweet him!
Great. Let us know what he says.
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Howard Hodgson is a jolly good shout, it's worth asking him I think. He's on twitter, try sending him a tweet and he's also on tbar. Try both though in case he doesn't respond to either.
Jolly good! He sounds great, and crikey did he see through Lerner's bullshit way way before so many.
Well, what are you waiting for? Send him that tweet or ask him on tbar. It sounds like you want to.
I remember the grief he used to get on here but it turns out he was right about Lerner.
Yes, I must tweet him!
Great. Let us know what he says.
Even if he's rude about you?
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Howard Hodgson is a jolly good shout, it's worth asking him I think. He's on twitter, try sending him a tweet and he's also on tbar. Try both though in case he doesn't respond to either.
Jolly good! He sounds great, and crikey did he see through Lerner's bullshit way way before so many.
Well, what are you waiting for? Send him that tweet or ask him on tbar. It sounds like you want to.
I remember the grief he used to get on here but it turns out he was right about Lerner.
Yes, I must tweet him!
Great. Let us know what he says.
Even if he's rude about you?
A bit of a strange and diverting question bearing in mind he doesn't know me, but yes. I could live with it. Anyway, you're the one that's tweeting him, not me, leave me out of it.
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I have never sent a tweet.
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Howard Hodgson is a jolly good shout, it's worth asking him I think. He's on twitter, try sending him a tweet and he's also on tbar. Try both though in case he doesn't respond to either.
Jolly good! He sounds great, and crikey did he see through Lerner's bullshit way way before so many.
Well, what are you waiting for? Send him that tweet or ask him on tbar. It sounds like you want to.
I remember the grief he used to get on here but it turns out he was right about Lerner.
Yes, I must tweet him!
Great. Let us know what he says.
Something about Charlie Aitken I reckon...
Edit: Just had a look on his twitter and he says the time for protests was years ago, damage has been done so hard luck SH.
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Howard Hodgson is a jolly good shout, it's worth asking him I think. He's on twitter, try sending him a tweet and he's also on tbar. Try both though in case he doesn't respond to either.
Jolly good! He sounds great, and crikey did he see through Lerner's bullshit way way before so many.
Well, what are you waiting for? Send him that tweet or ask him on tbar. It sounds like you want to.
I remember the grief he used to get on here but it turns out he was right about Lerner.
Yes, I must tweet him!
Great. Let us know what he says.
Even if he's rude about you?
A bit of a strange and diverting question bearing in mind he doesn't know me, but yes. I could live with it. Anyway, you're the one that's tweeting him, not me, leave me out of it.
It was a joke, calm down!
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Howard Hodgson is a jolly good shout, it's worth asking him I think. He's on twitter, try sending him a tweet and he's also on tbar. Try both though in case he doesn't respond to either.
Jolly good! He sounds great, and crikey did he see through Lerner's bullshit way way before so many.
Well, what are you waiting for? Send him that tweet or ask him on tbar. It sounds like you want to.
I remember the grief he used to get on here but it turns out he was right about Lerner.
Yes, I must tweet him!
Great. Let us know what he says.
Something about Charlie Aitken I reckon...
Edit: Just had a look on his twitter and he says the time for protests was years ago, damage has been done so hard luck SH.
Damn, it's all too late. If only we'd had seen through Lerner earlier.
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It might make him hurry up a little.
Isn't there a consensus that JPA followed the £ sign protest? I think protest is much more effective than 'oh, don't worry, they know people are pissed off'.
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Well the tide began turning in summer 2011 with the infamous managerial search, they cooled off McClaren and then appointed McLeish. Plenty of fan protest then but he still stayed in the job for nearly a year.
In fairness now relegation reality is kicking in with still 9 home games left, I do think the dissent levels will start going up a notch or three especially if we lose a few more.
The big problem for me is Lerner refuses to attend games at VP now. Doug Ellis was at least there so he was a visible presence in the directors box for fans to chant at, it loses it's effect shouting at Tom Fox or the recruitment committee.
I'm interested in how much the takeover price will drop in the summer. Currently 150m, how much can he realistically demand on championship revenue streams?
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I'm interested in how much the takeover price will drop in the summer. Currently 150m, how much can he realistically demand on championship revenue streams?
What are the Championship revenue streams? TV money, for instance.
Actually, the following gives an idea...
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/may/22/premier-league-relegation-financial-costs-of-drop-newcastle-united-hull-city-championship-parachute
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I'd expect our value to be something around what he paid for us.
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Can anyone go to the AGM?
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Pretty damning:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10118235/aston-villa-getting-what-they-deserve-says-matt-law
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I'm interested in how much the takeover price will drop in the summer. Currently 150m, how much can he realistically demand on championship revenue streams?
What are the Championship revenue streams? TV money, for instance.
Actually, the following gives an idea...
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/may/22/premier-league-relegation-financial-costs-of-drop-newcastle-united-hull-city-championship-parachute
Those TV income figures in the Championship are quite sobering are they not.
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Can anyone go to the AGM?
It's for Supporters Trust members only.
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I'm interested in how much the takeover price will drop in the summer. Currently 150m, how much can he realistically demand on championship revenue streams?
What are the Championship revenue streams? TV money, for instance.
Actually, the following gives an idea...
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/may/22/premier-league-relegation-financial-costs-of-drop-newcastle-united-hull-city-championship-parachute
Those TV income figures in the Championship are quite sobering are they not.
TV and "solidarity" money equates to about £3M without the parachute payments. So, £28m in the first season, £23m in the second, and £13m in seasons three and four.
Compared to £100m for finishing bottom next season, or approx. £65m(?) this.
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We get £65m for finishing bottom this season?
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We get £65m for finishing bottom this season?
These are the figures for last season...
http://www.totalsportek.com/football/premier-league-prize-money-table-2015/
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The above figures show why Fox is such a chump. Wittering on about an increase in shirt sponsorship, whilst ignoring the elephant in the room that is a HUGE drop in income, even with parachute payments.
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'Funny' how we used to joke about not being able to complete with the stokes and west broms but that is going to be the literal truth fairly soon due to the apocalyptic timing of this relegation.
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End of the day 3 teams still have to go down and 3 teams come up. If watford , Norwich and Bournemouth can get up and look like they're staying up, then so can we.
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In case anyone is wondering, Liverpool at home on February 14th will be our 9th TV game this season. Compared to eleven in total for Villa last season, which was also the same number of TV games for QPR who finished bottom and received a total of £64.8M according to the totalspotek.com artical.
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End of the day 3 teams still have to go down and 3 teams come up. If watford , Norwich and Bournemouth can get up and look like they're staying up, then so can we.
It just makes the cliff edge steeper and means it won't take as many years of being badly run in the championship before we're done as a top division team. The need to come straight back up is monumental.
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End of the day 3 teams still have to go down and 3 teams come up. If watford , Norwich and Bournemouth can get up and look like they're staying up, then so can we.
It just makes the cliff edge steeper and means it won't take as many years of being badly run in the championship before we're done as a top division team. The need to come straight back up is monumental.
well yes, we need to be well run again or maybe run by someone not asleep behind the wheel. But allowing for that, it does show the money gap is not that big to exclude clubs half the size of us.
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Yep but it also means the 'big club' description is even more meaningless since gates and all the other tangible aspects of that are so irrelevant in the face of the exponentially rising sky money.
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We aren't a big club anymore - there I have said it.
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We aren't a big club anymore - there I have said it.
We are but we don't act like one.
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We aren't a big club anymore - there I have said it.
Don't be daft we are the 20th best team in this country, supposedly the best league in the world.
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We aren't a big club anymore - there I have said it.
Don't be daft we are the 20th best team in this country, supposedly the best league in the world.
I think the Spanish and the Germans would disagree, but that's a discussion for another time.
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We aren't a big club anymore - there I have said it.
Don't be daft we are the 20th best team in this country, supposedly the best league in the world.
That's generous as I'd fancy us against less than half the championship if we played them tomorrow.
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We aren't a big club anymore - there I have said it.
We are but we don't act like one.
I would say signing Bent was the last occasion we acted like a big club. Letting Dave Whelan take the piss in 2011 and ending up with McLeish set the tone for a gradual lowering of the bar at villa.
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Mcleish, Alex fucking 2 relegations sedation football Mcleish. Why? Oh why?
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I would have thought that the one thing we all agree on is that Lerner's running of the club since 2010 has been completely unacceptable.
Close. At no point in time has he run it in an acceptable manner. It's just that for the first 4 years he hid it by asking MON to burn £50 notes for him.
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Not as eloquent or as high profile as you Dave, and that's what's needed. Perhaps Howard Hodgson could do something. He clearly sussed out Lerner way before the majority of us.
The protests against Ellis at the time of VPL and the £ sign stuff weren't led by anyone who was at the time high profile and I don't remember many of tehm being particularly eloquent. They started small and built it until the time of the more profile VFC which did get a couple of high profile followers including Howard Hodgson.
There seems to be support for it on here and I would assume elsewhere, so why can't it be you and some like-minded souls to have a go if you feel so motivated?
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When Houllier bowed out, we were at a fork in the road.
That Houllier year was crap but by the end - and it doesn't really matter if it was him or Gary Mac - we had started to finally play some half decent football. We also had some relatively good players in the squad still.
At that point, we needed to make the right appointment. We needed to appoint a manager with the right ethos, one who would build on the gains (slim, but still there) of that year of pain, and one who could work us back to a position where the Houllier year was a blip rather than the start of a decline.
We attempted to do that with Martinez. I wasn't convinced at the time, but on the basis of his style of football, it would have made sense.
What we then did was make the worst appointment we possibly could.
I couldn't give on tenth of one single fuck that McLeish came from Small Heath. For anyone with a brain, that wasn't the main problem. The main problem was that he'd just got his last club relegated and was known for a style of football utterly at odds with the way we needed to continue to grow.
Fork in the road - took the wrong direction, and totally fucked it up.
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When Houllier bowed out, we were at a fork in the road.
That Houllier year was crap but by the end - and it doesn't really matter if it was him or Gary Mac - we had started to finally play some half decent football. We also had some relatively good players in the squad still.
At that point, we needed to make the right appointment. We needed to appoint a manager with the right ethos, one who would build on the gains (slim, but still there) of that year of pain, and one who could work us back to a position where the Houllier year was a blip rather than the start of a decline.
We attempted to do that with Martinez. I wasn't convinced at the time, but on the basis of his style of football, it would have made sense.
What we then did was make the worst appointment we possibly could.
I couldn't give on tenth of one single fuck that McLeish came from Small Heath. For anyone with a brain, that wasn't the main problem. The main problem was that he'd just got his last club relegated and was known for a style of football utterly at odds with the way we needed to continue to grow.
Fork in the road - took the wrong direction, and totally fucked it up.
The Crystal Palace story is similar to ours
Experienced manager, Pulis, walks just before season starts.
Club appoint a past it doozy in his place, Warnock.
Club quickly realises the error of their ways and appoint a fairly run of the mill replacement
This is a club just up from the second division mind but they dont sink without trace.
we are a graveyard for the careers of successive managers and players
There is something absolutely rotten at the club that we are as low as we are currently.
If that doesnt provoke an utter war at Villa Park at match day then nothing ever will
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I think the idea of piling up (not setting them on fire mind) our PHBF scarfs in front of McGregor is a very good idea. I am in if anyone wants to organise?
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I would have thought that the one thing we all agree on is that Lerner's running of the club since 2010 has been completely unacceptable.
Close. At no point in time has he run it in an acceptable manner. It's just that for the first 4 years he hid it by asking MON to burn £50 notes for him.
The thing is, whilst O Neill burned through cash like he was remaking Brewsters Millions, at the same time, because he was essentially given free reign to run the club as he saw fit, we were in some regards solidly run. Now budget management wasn't well maintained but again, that falls on Randy.
In terms of football we had an idea of how we wanted to play. Not always evolving in style or pretty but O Neill had his way and it got us three top 6 finishes.
Say what you want about O Neill but he knows football. He might have signed Beye. He'll never live that down, but to all intents and purposes he was running our club for 4 years because he was the main man. That he had football knowledge to burn made some difference.
Trouble is, it of course wasn't sustainable. Randy changed his tac. He bought in Faulkner, then later Fox. The following managers weren't given the same level of control as O Neill, which Randy retrospectively probably felt was a mistake. In many ways it of course wasn't.
Houllier continuing could have made a difference. He could have moved up while a younger man came in to take over management. Ideally that would have been Martinez.
It didn't happen.
So what next? We have clueless marketing men overseeing while the disinterested and brainless Randy gets ever more remote and we make poor management choices. We give them an unrealistic plan to follow.
It all leads to this mess where Fox is farting out "winning isn't everything" soundbites and Garde comes in thoroughly unprepared for the mess here and relegation is finally certain.
So whilst we recognised that financially the O Neill regime couldn't continue, what we've yet to do is replace someone above the on field management level, with some footballing knowledge. If that's a new chairman, chief exec or DOF, or whatever, so be it. We need it and we need it soon. We also not to bomb out the likes of Fox, and then get people like Reilly back into positions they can actually perform in.
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I think the idea of piling up (not setting them on fire mind) our PHBF scarfs in front of McGregor is a very good idea. I am in if anyone wants to organise?
Throwing them on the pitch just as a designated home game kicks off would be more effective.
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We have gone from one extreme to the other. From MON and his three best mates to a revolving door of coaches, fitness experts, data analysis experts, scouts, sporting directors, marketing experts, executives and chief executives and non executive executives. The latter is getting us relegated. I think I preferred the 'outdated old school approach' that had us in the top six.
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Supertom - that's why I said that he's NEVER run the club in an acceptable manor. The MON years were just a different way of getting it wrong.
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We stumble from one bad decision to another and have done since Randolph walked into the club, now I believe he is at the point where he will give time to Garde, even if Garde may not be the man we need ( if Garde wants that time of course), especially to get us out of the Championship. Then comes what do we do about it, I am thousands of miles away so easy for me to say, demonstrate about this or about that, as I would have no direct involvement, but I will say that I think a certain amount of venting this anger that is obviously present is required, if not I really fear for the venomous atmosphere that will build up at Villa Park and at away games between now and the end of the season, rather someone organize something that may give a sense of supporter identity and solidarity to each other, not the poxy players or Randolph's cronies Fox et al, than have Villa fan fighting Villa fan, mark my words that will happen before May comes round.
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I have had the same "fork in the road" vision as Paulie.
The first big, and potentially club destroying mistake was McLeish. I don't know if the legend is true that Lerner threw a wobbly when Whelan pissed us about, got into his plane, flew to Corsica and signed McLeish personally but it does not matter, the end product was the same. Everything we had ever hoped to be or become reduced to an air punching for a draw with Stoke existence.
It is only just becoming clear that that terrible road forked again when the club finally scraped enough will power together to sack Lambert a year and a new contract too late.
Enter wunderkind Tom Fox. The whole and fundamentally essential job of getting the club back on the rails was reduced to an act of cronyism with the appointment of Sherwood.
We needed the calm, coherent conservatism of Remi Garde when we finally got rid of Lambert but due to Fox throwing his weight about got a faker, a chancer, a liar, an empty vessel in the thrall of the media. Again we took the wrong fork in the road and it has plunged us into Pilgrim's Slough of Despond.
I can only conclude with the metaphor I used about Sherwood last week when I referred to Garde's comment in L'Equipe about arriving at Villa Park in an ambulance. Sherwood found us sick in the gutter. He gave us a swig of whisky and moved on. The person who enabled him to treat us that way is still in place and giving us his version of badge kissing with fantasies about building something great.
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How is Sherwood a liar?
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How is Sherwood a liar?
He outed himself as liar by giving it the big I am, look at me signing all of these talented players from abroad, "there's no value in the English market" was I believe one of the phrases, when we signing players in the summer. Then only 2 months later he turned around and washed his hands of the entire squad in his self preservation "nothing to do with me" my hands are tied routine.
As those statements are mutually exclusive, only one of them can be true. Ergo the other is a lie.
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He promised to make us a winning team and did the exact opposite.
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He promised to make us a winning team and did the exact opposite.
He did tell the truth about one thing though. He said we wouldn't be involved in another relegation battle this season :(
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What disturbs me most is we seem able to turn a pretty decent player into rubbish. There is something at Villa park that turns everything sour.
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What disturbs me most is we seem able to turn a pretty decent player into rubbish. There is something at Villa park that turns everything sour.
Ryan Bertrand springs to mind.
Started brightly, quickly turned to shit. Then completed a permanent move to Southampton and looks good again.
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Fork in the road - took the wrong direction crashed the car at high speed into the central reservation
Fixed
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I think the idea of piling up (not setting them on fire mind) our PHBF scarfs in front of McGregor is a very good idea. I am in if anyone wants to organise?
Throwing them on the pitch just as a designated home game kicks off would be more effective.
Agreed. If you're going to do something, do it in full view of TV cameras and the press. Leave McGregor out of this.
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I think an "In loving memory of our football club" wreath on the old boy's grave in the spring could be acceptable and appropriate.
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I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.
Would be fun to do it at The Emirates, but a home game would be better. Get a game held up while Foxy is forced to listen to what fans really think
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Let's not get overly melodramatic and start throwing wreaths or carrying coffins around grounds please. We can leave that to those sanctimonious tossers from Sandwell.
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I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.
Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.
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I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.
Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.
A 3 year banning order from watching Villa? it would be a relief for some. Pitch invasion is the only action to get noticed. Those worried about it could wave their scarves at a statue
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I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.
Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.
The court would probably issue a 3 year season ticket as a punishment.
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I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.
Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.
A 3 year banning order from watching Villa? it would be a relief for some. Pitch invasion is the only action to get noticed. Those worried about it could wave their scarves at a statue
*shrugs*
In which case, go for it.
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The problem with Saunders Heroes and his "calling them out for years" line is that it always comes back to the same basic complaint and that is Lerner must spend more.
You cannot just blindly demand he piss more and more money down the drain.
I have met Fox a few times now and can assure they are very much aware of (and in agreement with) our issues over how the club has been run for many years. Whether you rate Fix or not, he at least is trying to put in place the structure we should have had from day one.
As for the protest, there is little point protesting at anything without a clear aim. The line here seems to be the whole point is to let people know we are pissed off. They know that very well.
Lee Preece spends a fair chunk of his week looking at what is being discussed on the forums and reports this back to the board.
If you are determined to protest at Lerner, Fox, Almstadt et al, you have to be clear on what they have done incorrectly in your view.
Now I fully intend to twist the knife on Fox about his Sherwood appointment at the Trust AGM (there wasn't time at the meeting before the Arsenal game). That is one where there are facts he can't escape from of his own doing. Protesting about Almstadt being a shit scout won't work, for example, as he has fuck all to do with recruitment.
Well yes, and no. We know that lerner wants to sell so I agree that there is absolutely no point in 'lerner Out' signs, banners, songs etc because he wants out too, we all know that. Moreover, I'm not sure that suddenly throwing cash at us is the answer too. At least not from Lerner. The problem is that we have lurched from one poor decision after another from our American cartel. from the innocence and subterfuge of Krulak to the dismissing of Fitzgerald, appointments of one inadequate person after another, and an owner who has pulled the plug far too quickly for the club to be buoyant enough to make a sale enticing to serious bidders. I'm not convinced that buyers aren't there either despite FPP as the money in the television deals are mind blowing.
So, what I'd like to see lerner do is communicate with us. Now more than ever. Yes, you want out so what are you doing to prevent the sale? Is it the cost? is it who comes next? If so, what are the sticking points there? What is the tick list that any potential new owner needs to pass? Obviously we won't need to know everything but is it the minimum an owner is going to spend? What their vision for the club is? We need more from Lerner. Don't come to games if he doesn't want to, but he should be here a bit more just to give a club in the doldrums a lift. Anyone who thinks a stay away owner cannot lift a club that is struggling simply by being there from time to time - every couple of months or so - is wrong in my opinion.
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I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.
Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.
A 3 year banning order from watching Villa? it would be a relief for some. Pitch invasion is the only action to get noticed. Those worried about it could wave their scarves at a statue
*shrugs*
In which case, go for it.
I'm not saying that I'm going for it ( I've got enough selfies of me on the pitch after the Albion game last season, ta very much, and I'm still dreading the 6 oclock knock after the Southampton invasion in 1994), but there are times when direct action is the only way to be heard. Even if it changes nothing, the thought of Fox ( or, if a miracle should happen and Randy is exhumed from his Ohio bat cave and attends a Villa game), has to sit and watch a few hundred people giving him dogs' abuse in front of his corporate chums, it might be a small victory. And it might make a lot of fans feels a bit better. Or we could just slip meekly out of the league without a whimper.
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The problem with Saunders Heroes and his "calling them out for years" line is that it always comes back to the same basic complaint and that is Lerner must spend more.
You cannot just blindly demand he piss more and more money down the drain.
I have met Fox a few times now and can assure they are very much aware of (and in agreement with) our issues over how the club has been run for many years. Whether you rate Fix or not, he at least is trying to put in place the structure we should have had from day one.
As for the protest, there is little point protesting at anything without a clear aim. The line here seems to be the whole point is to let people know we are pissed off. They know that very well.
Lee Preece spends a fair chunk of his week looking at what is being discussed on the forums and reports this back to the board.
If you are determined to protest at Lerner, Fox, Almstadt et al, you have to be clear on what they have done incorrectly in your view.
Now I fully intend to twist the knife on Fox about his Sherwood appointment at the Trust AGM (there wasn't time at the meeting before the Arsenal game). That is one where there are facts he can't escape from of his own doing. Protesting about Almstadt being a shit scout won't work, for example, as he has fuck all to do with recruitment.
Well yes, and no. We know that lerner wants to sell so I agree that there is absolutely no point in 'lerner Out' signs, banners, songs etc because he wants out too, we all know that. Moreover, I'm not sure that suddenly throwing cash at us is the answer too. At least not from Lerner. The problem is that we have lurched from one poor decision after another from our American cartel. from the innocence and subterfuge of Krulak to the dismissing of Fitzgerald, appointments of one inadequate person after another, and an owner who has pulled the plug far too quickly for the club to be buoyant enough to make a sale enticing to serious bidders. I'm not convinced that buyers aren't there either despite FPP as the money in the television deals are mind blowing.
So, what I'd like to see lerner do is communicate with us. Now more than ever. Yes, you want out so what are you doing to prevent the sale? Is it the cost? is it who comes next? If so, what are the sticking points there? What is the tick list that any potential new owner needs to pass? Obviously we won't need to know everything but is it the minimum an owner is going to spend? What their vision for the club is? We need more from Lerner. Don't come to games if he doesn't want to, but he should be here a bit more just to give a club in the doldrums a lift. Anyone who thinks a stay away owner cannot lift a club that is struggling simply by being there from time to time - every couple of months or so - is wrong in my opinion.
If Lerner communicates with supporters the response from the people making the most noise will be "it's all talk, don't tell us show us". His credibility is so diminished that there is nothing to gain from it.
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I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.
Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.
A 3 year banning order from watching Villa? it would be a relief for some. Pitch invasion is the only action to get noticed. Those worried about it could wave their scarves at a statue
*shrugs*
In which case, go for it.
I'm not saying that I'm going for it ( I've got enough selfies of me on the pitch after the Albion game last season, ta very much, and I'm still dreading the 6 oclock knock after the Southampton invasion in 1994), but there are times when direct action is the only way to be heard. Even if it changes nothing, the thought of Fox ( or, if a miracle should happen and Randy is exhumed from his Ohio bat cave and attends a Villa game), has to sit and watch a few hundred people giving him dogs' abuse in front of his corporate chums, it might be a small victory. And it might make a lot of fans feels a bit better.
Or, to carry on going round in circles it might make them feel a bit silly when they end up with a criminal record and a three year banning order, just to achieve the exact same result as "waving their scarves at a statue".
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I agree that there will be some adverse reaction. But at least we'll know. We know the club are trying to sell, that's a given, what we need to know is why aren't we selling. There have been potential buyers.
As for pitch demonstrations, I wouldn't bother. Blackpool are in a worse situation than us and look how pitch invasions have helped them.
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I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.
Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.
A 3 year banning order from watching Villa? it would be a relief for some. Pitch invasion is the only action to get noticed. Those worried about it could wave their scarves at a statue
*shrugs*
In which case, go for it.
I'm not saying that I'm going for it ( I've got enough selfies of me on the pitch after the Albion game last season, ta very much, and I'm still dreading the 6 oclock knock after the Southampton invasion in 1994), but there are times when direct action is the only way to be heard. Even if it changes nothing, the thought of Fox ( or, if a miracle should happen and Randy is exhumed from his Ohio bat cave and attends a Villa game), has to sit and watch a few hundred people giving him dogs' abuse in front of his corporate chums, it might be a small victory. And it might make a lot of fans feels a bit better.
Or, to carry on going round in circles it might make them feel a bit silly when they end up with a criminal record and a three year banning order, just to achieve the exact same result as "waving their scarves at a statue".
How many people got banning orders and criminal records after the Albion "invasion"? if people are threatened with all sorts to try and stop them voicing their opinions, that's even more reason to get on the pitch to do it. Wouldn't have happened in the good old days, before supporters were turned into consumers and became sanitised sheep.
Any road up, I'm supposed to be working
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Why not something like laying wreaths at the statue of William McGregor. It may sound overly dramatic but more likely to get press coverage if done properly. Wreaths, flowers, scarves etc. The down side is that it may smack of insensitivity as its only a football club being relegated and not someone dying. but it's an idea that can be player with.
One wreath, one scarf, and a banner mentioning what is going on.
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The problem with Saunders Heroes and his "calling them out for years" line is that it always comes back to the same basic complaint and that is Lerner must spend more.
You cannot just blindly demand he piss more and more money down the drain.
I have met Fox a few times now and can assure they are very much aware of (and in agreement with) our issues over how the club has been run for many years. Whether you rate Fix or not, he at least is trying to put in place the structure we should have had from day one.
As for the protest, there is little point protesting at anything without a clear aim. The line here seems to be the whole point is to let people know we are pissed off. They know that very well.
Lee Preece spends a fair chunk of his week looking at what is being discussed on the forums and reports this back to the board.
If you are determined to protest at Lerner, Fox, Almstadt et al, you have to be clear on what they have done incorrectly in your view.
Now I fully intend to twist the knife on Fox about his Sherwood appointment at the Trust AGM (there wasn't time at the meeting before the Arsenal game). That is one where there are facts he can't escape from of his own doing. Protesting about Almstadt being a shit scout won't work, for example, as he has fuck all to do with recruitment.
Well yes, and no. We know that lerner wants to sell so I agree that there is absolutely no point in 'lerner Out' signs, banners, songs etc because he wants out too, we all know that. Moreover, I'm not sure that suddenly throwing cash at us is the answer too. At least not from Lerner. The problem is that we have lurched from one poor decision after another from our American cartel. from the innocence and subterfuge of Krulak to the dismissing of Fitzgerald, appointments of one inadequate person after another, and an owner who has pulled the plug far too quickly for the club to be buoyant enough to make a sale enticing to serious bidders. I'm not convinced that buyers aren't there either despite FPP as the money in the television deals are mind blowing.
So, what I'd like to see lerner do is communicate with us. Now more than ever. Yes, you want out so what are you doing to prevent the sale? Is it the cost? is it who comes next? If so, what are the sticking points there? What is the tick list that any potential new owner needs to pass? Obviously we won't need to know everything but is it the minimum an owner is going to spend? What their vision for the club is? We need more from Lerner. Don't come to games if he doesn't want to, but he should be here a bit more just to give a club in the doldrums a lift. Anyone who thinks a stay away owner cannot lift a club that is struggling simply by being there from time to time - every couple of months or so - is wrong in my opinion.
If Lerner communicates with supporters the response from the people making the most noise will be "it's all talk, don't tell us show us". His credibility is so diminished that there is nothing to gain from it.
Throwing the PHBF scarves on the pitch is an entirely appropriate action. To me, it says loud and clear that the supporters are key to the club and we don't buy into the marketing bullshit. That speaks to both Lerner and his former crony Krulak, but also reminds Fox that he can't repeat the same party line. He's got to come across as a forthright, dynamic CEO not another Lerner accolyte if there's any chance of the fans buying into his ability to rebuild.
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I would have thought that the one thing we all agree on is that Lerner's running of the club since 2010 has been completely unacceptable.
Close. At no point in time has he run it in an acceptable manner. It's just that for the first 4 years he hid it by asking MON to burn £50 notes for him.
The club could certainly have been run better in the first 4 years but backing a manager with O'Neill's record at that point was understandable, I certainly wouldn't call it unacceptable, particularly as it got us top six three seasons running.
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I would have thought that the one thing we all agree on is that Lerner's running of the club since 2010 has been completely unacceptable.
Close. At no point in time has he run it in an acceptable manner. It's just that for the first 4 years he hid it by asking MON to burn £50 notes for him.
The club could certainly have been run better in the first 4 years but backing a manager with O'Neill's record at that point was understandable, I certainly wouldn't call it unacceptable, particularly as it got us top six three seasons running.
And at what cost? It was stupid to allow him to spend in the way he did without seriously challenging him. At the very least the 2 back 4s in 2 years should have set alarm bells ringing. That's not backing him. That's closing your eyes and hoping for the best. That's why it was unacceptable.
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The problem with Saunders Heroes and his "calling them out for years" line is that it always comes back to the same basic complaint and that is Lerner must spend more.
You cannot just blindly demand he piss more and more money down the drain.
I have met Fox a few times now and can assure they are very much aware of (and in agreement with) our issues over how the club has been run for many years. Whether you rate Fix or not, he at least is trying to put in place the structure we should have had from day one.
As for the protest, there is little point protesting at anything without a clear aim. The line here seems to be the whole point is to let people know we are pissed off. They know that very well.
Lee Preece spends a fair chunk of his week looking at what is being discussed on the forums and reports this back to the board.
If you are determined to protest at Lerner, Fox, Almstadt et al, you have to be clear on what they have done incorrectly in your view.
Now I fully intend to twist the knife on Fox about his Sherwood appointment at the Trust AGM (there wasn't time at the meeting before the Arsenal game). That is one where there are facts he can't escape from of his own doing. Protesting about Almstadt being a shit scout won't work, for example, as he has fuck all to do with recruitment.
Well yes, and no. We know that lerner wants to sell so I agree that there is absolutely no point in 'lerner Out' signs, banners, songs etc because he wants out too, we all know that. Moreover, I'm not sure that suddenly throwing cash at us is the answer too. At least not from Lerner. The problem is that we have lurched from one poor decision after another from our American cartel. from the innocence and subterfuge of Krulak to the dismissing of Fitzgerald, appointments of one inadequate person after another, and an owner who has pulled the plug far too quickly for the club to be buoyant enough to make a sale enticing to serious bidders. I'm not convinced that buyers aren't there either despite FPP as the money in the television deals are mind blowing.
So, what I'd like to see lerner do is communicate with us. Now more than ever. Yes, you want out so what are you doing to prevent the sale? Is it the cost? is it who comes next? If so, what are the sticking points there? What is the tick list that any potential new owner needs to pass? Obviously we won't need to know everything but is it the minimum an owner is going to spend? What their vision for the club is? We need more from Lerner. Don't come to games if he doesn't want to, but he should be here a bit more just to give a club in the doldrums a lift. Anyone who thinks a stay away owner cannot lift a club that is struggling simply by being there from time to time - every couple of months or so - is wrong in my opinion.
If Lerner communicates with supporters the response from the people making the most noise will be "it's all talk, don't tell us show us". His credibility is so diminished that there is nothing to gain from it.
Throwing the PHBF scarves on the pitch is an entirely appropriate action. To me, it says loud and clear that the supporters are key to the club and we don't buy into the marketing bullshit. That speaks to both Lerner and his former crony Krulak, but also reminds Fox that he can't repeat the same party line. He's got to come across as a forthright, dynamic CEO not another Lerner accolyte if there's any chance of the fans buying into his ability to rebuild.
Totally agree. As has been pointed out, wreaths are a tad melodramatic, besides, William McGregor shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as a charlatan like Randy Lerner (crosses self). Plus, it's action on the pitch - where cameras are pointed - without actually invading the playing surface. It also highlights the kind of empty marketing guff, alongside idiotic statements like "we're building something special", that's helped make us a laughing stock.
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Something we touched on in the past, and where I fear we will miss a trick with the new chairman, is having the football man on the board that can reassure it will get better. Not with corporate jargon, but because we trust them.
The nub of it at the moment is that we don't trust the board after so many years of mismanagement. Whilst they can fairly argue that some of what they get panned for is incorrect, it is that lack of trust that means our support are quick to buy in to every bad news story.
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How many people fill the following criteria?
1) still have the scarf;
2) are willing to throw it away;
3) sit close enough to the pitch to reach.
Just smacks of Newcastle to me, protesting to be seen rather than for any purpose. If everyone connected with the club is not fully aware already of how pissed off fans are then they are that thick that there isn't anything that will persuade them.
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If I agreed with scarf chucking, and I don't, I am keeping my Wembley scarf only ever to wear for a Wembley victory that might erase the pain of when I wore it last.
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The purpose is surely that:
We value a proud history and the type of men who built it with integrity, vision and expertise.
We do not value platitudes gimmick and marketing spin.
I can't think of a better way of saying that we can accept mistakes along with the natural ebb and flow of fortunes. We can't just simply sit back and accept incompetence.
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I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.
Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.
A 3 year banning order from watching Villa? it would be a relief for some. Pitch invasion is the only action to get noticed. Those worried about it could wave their scarves at a statue
*shrugs*
In which case, go for it.
I'm not saying that I'm going for it ( I've got enough selfies of me on the pitch after the Albion game last season, ta very much, and I'm still dreading the 6 oclock knock after the Southampton invasion in 1994), but there are times when direct action is the only way to be heard. Even if it changes nothing, the thought of Fox ( or, if a miracle should happen and Randy is exhumed from his Ohio bat cave and attends a Villa game), has to sit and watch a few hundred people giving him dogs' abuse in front of his corporate chums, it might be a small victory. And it might make a lot of fans feels a bit better.
Or, to carry on going round in circles it might make them feel a bit silly when they end up with a criminal record and a three year banning order, just to achieve the exact same result as "waving their scarves at a statue".
How many people got banning orders and criminal records after the Albion "invasion"? if people are threatened with all sorts to try and stop them voicing their opinions, that's even more reason to get on the pitch to do it. Wouldn't have happened in the good old days, before supporters were turned into consumers and became sanitised sheep.
Any road up, I'm supposed to be working
I wouldn't take anything from the lack of action after the Albion game. Despite the initial hissy fit that was spontaneous, celebratory and good natured. There's always a public interest test and no sensible prosecutor would've run with that.
But an organised and bad tempered protest on the pitch? Nailed on prosecutions and convictions. Personally I'd be far more bothered about the conviction than the Banning Order.
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If I agreed with scarf chucking, and I don't, I am keeping my Wembley scarf only ever to wear for a Wembley victory that might erase the pain of when I wore it last.
How long does it take before acrylic rots?
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How many people fill the following criteria?
1) still have the scarf;
2) are willing to throw it away;
3) sit close enough to the pitch to reach.
Just smacks of Newcastle to me, protesting to be seen rather than for any purpose. If everyone connected with the club is not fully aware already of how pissed off fans are then they are that thick that there isn't anything that will persuade them.
I was going to say. I know Randy loved us back then but it was still only a bit of polyester.
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But an organised and bad tempered protest on the pitch? Nailed on prosecutions and convictions
Blackpool fans have done it twice this season - including a pitch invader in a wheelchair.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/blackpool/11579126/Blackpool-fans-invade-pitch-and-camp-in-centre-circle-in-Karl-Oyston-protest-as-Huddersfield-match-suspended.html
Only 5 arrests and they weren't for fans invading the pitch but for a handful who "crossed the line of peaceful protest"
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But an organised and bad tempered protest on the pitch? Nailed on prosecutions and convictions
Blackpool fans have done it twice this season - including a pitch invader in a wheelchair.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/blackpool/11579126/Blackpool-fans-invade-pitch-and-camp-in-centre-circle-in-Karl-Oyston-protest-as-Huddersfield-match-suspended.html
Only 5 arrests and they weren't for fans invading the pitch but for a handful who "crossed the line of peaceful protest"
“Pitch encroachment is an offence which could result in being arrested and banned from matches and we hope that all supporters will enjoy this season’s fixtures safely and responsibly,” said detective inspector Jason Richardson.
And the Blackpool Supporters' Trust are advising against further invasions:
“It’s very unlikely there will be a repeat of the pitch invasion that took place against Huddersfield in the near future but there could be a repeat of what happened at Lancaster with one or two people invading the pitch of their own volition. The police have made it clear to us, and the Oystons have spoken to the police about ensuring matches are completed, that they will act very differently (to the Huddersfield protest) if that is the case.”
All from here. (http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/aug/13/blackpool-fans-protest-oyston)
No skin off mine, and people might be lucky, but if you're going to do it you should be aware of the consequencies.
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We saw against Albion what they think of Villa pitch invasions. Back to the "Dark days" of the 1970s.
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After months (years?) of campaigning to deaf ears, Blackpool fans invade the pitch twice and finally get all the publicity they were looking for.
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I ve thought long and hard about my protest and have finally come up with a legal way of making my point. After the Palace game I won't be attending again this season. Looking at the games I would have gone to with my daughter I estimate I will save around £1000 when you take into account travelling etc. I have promised her a long weekend in Barcelona in June with the money I'll save. This is the first time in nearly 50 years I have decided to call it a day on my beloved team but I think the club has had enough out of me now and quite frankly this season have taken the piss out of me. The Palace game will be a sad game for me whatever the result but I'll see you all again in the championship next season...Aston villa, proud history . The only thing that makes me proud at the moment are the supporters.
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After months (years?) of campaigning to deaf ears, Blackpool fans invade the pitch twice and finally get all the publicity they were looking for.
Invading the pitch has been reported in the same places as all their earlier protests. You've probably still not seen it as the lead story on Sky Sports News or on the back page of any newspaper, just as their earlier protests haven't been. The thing that's generated the most publicity by a mile was one elderly bloke slagging off the owner on Facebook.
These occasional pitch invasions are still having the precise same impact on removing the Oystons as if they had hadn't bothered in the first place.
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After months (years?) of campaigning to deaf ears, Blackpool fans invade the pitch twice and finally get all the publicity they were looking for.
Publicity yes but what they were looking for they haven't got a step closer towards.
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We saw last season how pitch invasions are nor interpreted, if we do it again they will probably relegate us 2 divisions.
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After months (years?) of campaigning to deaf ears, Blackpool fans invade the pitch twice and finally get all the publicity they were looking for.
Publicity yes but what they were looking for they haven't got a step closer towards.
At least it shows their fans care though. We just look apathetic.
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After months (years?) of campaigning to deaf ears, Blackpool fans invade the pitch twice and finally get all the publicity they were looking for.
Invading the pitch has been reported in the same places as all their earlier protests. You've probably still not seen it as the lead story on Sky Sports News or on the back page of any newspaper, just as their earlier protests haven't been. The thing that's generated the most publicity by a mile was one elderly bloke slagging off the owner on Facebook.
These occasional pitch invasions are still having the precise same impact on removing the Oystons as if they had hadn't bothered in the first place.
A premier league game abandoned after a pitch invasion would be the main story in all media. It would have no impact on Lerner, as I've said, but would make a lot of fans feel a lot better about taking control back from the club for a short time, before we disappear into the pisspot league where nobody gives a shit what the fans do. Would for me, anyway. I know it won't happen though, we've had the balls knocked out of us.
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I vote that we invade Aston Park instead.
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After months (years?) of campaigning to deaf ears, Blackpool fans invade the pitch twice and finally get all the publicity they were looking for.
Invading the pitch has been reported in the same places as all their earlier protests. You've probably still not seen it as the lead story on Sky Sports News or on the back page of any newspaper, just as their earlier protests haven't been. The thing that's generated the most publicity by a mile was one elderly bloke slagging off the owner on Facebook.
These occasional pitch invasions are still having the precise same impact on removing the Oystons as if they had hadn't bothered in the first place.
A premier league game abandoned after a pitch invasion would be the main story in all media. It would have no impact on Lerner, as I've said, but would make a lot of fans feel a lot better about taking control back from the club for a short time, before we disappear into the pisspot league where nobody gives a shit what the fans do. Would for me, anyway.
Well as Dave is fond of pointing out to SH, organise it then if it would make you feel better.
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if we do it again they will probably relegate us 2 divisions.
Might save a bit of time, that.
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After months (years?) of campaigning to deaf ears, Blackpool fans invade the pitch twice and finally get all the publicity they were looking for.
Invading the pitch has been reported in the same places as all their earlier protests. You've probably still not seen it as the lead story on Sky Sports News or on the back page of any newspaper, just as their earlier protests haven't been. The thing that's generated the most publicity by a mile was one elderly bloke slagging off the owner on Facebook.
These occasional pitch invasions are still having the precise same impact on removing the Oystons as if they had hadn't bothered in the first place.
A premier league game abandoned after a pitch invasion would be the main story in all media. It would have no impact on Lerner, as I've said, but would make a lot of fans feel a lot better about taking control back from the club for a short time, before we disappear into the pisspot league where nobody gives a shit what the fans do. Would for me, anyway.
Well as Dave is fond of pointing out to SH, organise it then if it would make you feel better.
I'm an ideas kind of man, a big picture kinda fella. I'll leave organising it to those with appropriate skills. What would be your chosen method of expressing your frustration? other than slamming other peoples'?
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The only problems with a pitch invasion would be a) that it's a criminal offence; and b) organising it (and possibly participating in it) would get you banned for life from VP.
Although b) may not feel like much of a "problem" at the moment.
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The only problems with a pitch invasion would be a) that it's a criminal offence; and b) organising it (and possibly participating in it) would get you banned for life from VP.
Although b) may not feel like much of a "problem" at the moment.
Villa Martyrs
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How many people fill the following criteria?
1) still have the scarf;
2) are willing to throw it away;
3) sit close enough to the pitch to reach.
Just smacks of Newcastle to me, protesting to be seen rather than for any purpose. If everyone connected with the club is not fully aware already of how pissed off fans are then they are that thick that there isn't anything that will persuade them.
Posting them back en masse would be better. It would have quite a dramatic impact if thousands of the things suddenly arrived back at the Club.
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After months (years?) of campaigning to deaf ears, Blackpool fans invade the pitch twice and finally get all the publicity they were looking for.
Invading the pitch has been reported in the same places as all their earlier protests. You've probably still not seen it as the lead story on Sky Sports News or on the back page of any newspaper, just as their earlier protests haven't been. The thing that's generated the most publicity by a mile was one elderly bloke slagging off the owner on Facebook.
These occasional pitch invasions are still having the precise same impact on removing the Oystons as if they had hadn't bothered in the first place.
A premier league game abandoned after a pitch invasion would be the main story in all media. It would have no impact on Lerner, as I've said, but would make a lot of fans feel a lot better about taking control back from the club for a short time, before we disappear into the pisspot league where nobody gives a shit what the fans do. Would for me, anyway.
Well as Dave is fond of pointing out to SH, organise it then if it would make you feel better.
I'm an ideas kind of man, a big picture kinda fella. I'll leave organising it to those with appropriate skills. What would be your chosen method of expressing your frustration? other than slamming other peoples'?
Not endorsing the current regime by giving them any of my money. Not really something I'd consider a protest, but I'm happier with this than anything else that has been suggested.
And I wouldn't have said that I have 'slammed' any of your ideas. At least twice I've said that if you think if would help then you should do it.
You just seem strangely keen for other people to risk their jobs and their future prospects rather than actually following through with your plan that you think would help.
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But it has to be seen to be effective. Posting back the scarves is a bit effete. Maybe not pay the postage?
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The only problems with a pitch invasion would be a) that it's a criminal offence; and b) organising it (and possibly participating in it) would get you banned for life from VP.
Although b) may not feel like much of a "problem" at the moment.
Well we couldn't be hit with much of a points reduction.
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Since when has a protest ever had to have a discernible outcome? The Iraq war protests didn't stop the bombs and bloodshed in the Middle East. The austerity protests haven't put a stop to savage cuts. I doubt any of the participants thought they would. But that doesn't mean those protests didn't have meaning.
Whether somebody organises something or not, if this hopeless streak continues, fans will show their ire in some form or other, and it'll probably be a lot less pretty than a few scarves lobbed on a pitch.
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Just heard on Beeb local news that there's a protest march along Trinity Rd being planned before the Palace game next Tuesday. First I've heard about it
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WE WANT OUT VILLA BACK!
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12495210_905412612840959_2100045431721782443_n.jpg?oh=c879bc14fe8466c8298e04d5a823b0fd&oe=56FB312A)
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Go for it!
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Think I'll turn up, if anyone wants to say Hi i'll be the one in the balaclava setting fire to a Randy Lerner picture. If you've run Lerner down hard on here, here's the chance to vent your frustration, no excuse really.
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I'm protesting by not going to the game in the first place (as per PWS). It's a school night, anyway.
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im not going as i just cannot be arsed
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We saw last season how pitch invasions are nor interpreted, if we do it again they will probably relegate us 2 divisions.
Hopefully they'd just give us a points deduction ;)
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Pitch invasions are a no go after the overreaction to the Albion game. Only other thing might be to stage a sit in protest in the stands after the final whistle.
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If I agreed with scarf chucking, and I don't, I am keeping my Wembley scarf only ever to wear for a Wembley victory that might erase the pain of when I wore it last.
If i agreed with the scarf chucking i'd cut it in half and chuck the bright future half back.
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If I agreed with scarf chucking, and I don't, I am keeping my Wembley scarf only ever to wear for a Wembley victory that might erase the pain of when I wore it last.
If i agreed with the scarf chucking i'd cut it in half and chuck the bright future half back.
Which is a quite brilliant idea. One might also wipe ones arse on the proud history part as that is what Mr Lerner seems to be doing.
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WE WANT OUT VILLA BACK!
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12495210_905412612840959_2100045431721782443_n.jpg?oh=c879bc14fe8466c8298e04d5a823b0fd&oe=56FB312A)
Ok here is your chance, I bet less than 50
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If I agreed with scarf chucking, and I don't, I am keeping my Wembley scarf only ever to wear for a Wembley victory that might erase the pain of when I wore it last.
If i agreed with the scarf chucking i'd cut it in half and chuck the bright future half back.
Which is a quite brilliant idea. One might also wipe ones arse on the proud history part as that is what Mr Lerner seems to be doing.
It would make them worthless to any looters too. Not that they'll be worth much now anyway.
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WE WANT OUT VILLA BACK!
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12495210_905412612840959_2100045431721782443_n.jpg?oh=c879bc14fe8466c8298e04d5a823b0fd&oe=56FB312A)
Ok here is your chance, I bet less than 50
Way less
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I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.
Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.
A 3 year banning order from watching Villa? it would be a relief for some. Pitch invasion is the only action to get noticed. Those worried about it could wave their scarves at a statue
So I get paid about one and half grand for doing that...I am in!
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Can't see there being a huge crowd for Palace given it's midweek and they're not a huge draw.
Wouldn't Leicester be a better choice, on TV and all that.
I still have my PHBF scarf somewhere, it's a nice design but I'd be willing to do some sort of protest with it for the Newcastle game. Maybe chuck it on the pitch if the players dare to do a lap of appreciation (it will be cancelled I'm sure) like fans do with season tickets.
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WE WANT OUT VILLA BACK!
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12495210_905412612840959_2100045431721782443_n.jpg?oh=c879bc14fe8466c8298e04d5a823b0fd&oe=56FB312A)
Ok here is your chance, I bet less than 50
Way less
saunders_heroes + X.
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We want 'out' Villa back. Is this just embarrassing grammar or am I missing something?
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I'd favour more direct action. Invade the pitch and stop a match. Won't solve anything, won't help the team (but they're beyond help now, so we shouldn't worry about upsetting the lazy little lightweights), probably won't even be seen by Randy ( or his purse string, legacy-controlling mother) but might help fans to let off steam. No point having a polite demo that gets no attention.
Unless they think that it's worth a three-year banning order to let off some steam, they might be better off taking up boxing or maybe having a massage.
A 3 year banning order from watching Villa? it would be a relief for some. Pitch invasion is the only action to get noticed. Those worried about it could wave their scarves at a statue
*shrugs*
In which case, go for it.
I'm not saying that I'm going for it ( I've got enough selfies of me on the pitch after the Albion game last season, ta very much, and I'm still dreading the 6 oclock knock after the Southampton invasion in 1994), but there are times when direct action is the only way to be heard. Even if it changes nothing, the thought of Fox ( or, if a miracle should happen and Randy is exhumed from his Ohio bat cave and attends a Villa game), has to sit and watch a few hundred people giving him dogs' abuse in front of his corporate chums, it might be a small victory. And it might make a lot of fans feels a bit better. Or we could just slip meekly out of the league without a whimper.
we will knock the door at half 5
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WE WANT OUT VILLA BACK!
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12495210_905412612840959_2100045431721782443_n.jpg?oh=c879bc14fe8466c8298e04d5a823b0fd&oe=56FB312A)
Ok here is your chance, I bet less than 50
There you go SH. Someone protesting on your behalf and you can join in.
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Black balloons(Or rubber jonnys if you're affluent)....and ferking loads of them...all over VP..and with plenty of social media awareness and prior media forewarning.
Cheap,full of hot air and made of plastic...which is the entire pointless message,and they have the potential to drift across the Atlantic.
Randy Lerner's tenure summed up in a meaningless expression of fixated loathing
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At the final whistle of ***insert name of any team here**** game everyone should stay in their seats but turn around with their back facing the pitch in silence, nothing abusive just 35,000 facing the opposite direction.
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At the final whistle of ***insert name of any team here**** game everyone should stay in their seats but turn around with their back facing the pitch in silence, nothing abusive just 35,000 facing the opposite direction.
A much better protest. Take your seat. Do it for the first 15 minutes.
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We want 'out' Villa back. Is this just embarrassing grammar or am I missing something?
Not grammar error it's a typo and yes embarrassing when other teams fans see it!
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Is there a good wordsmith out there? How about a page long advert in the Meaning Evil setting out the grievances we have and questions we genuinely want answers to ahead of the AGM?
Then continue with the adverts until we get some answers or action to address the slide whilst the current 'custodian' remains in charge.
I'd chuck a tenner in.....would get some decent publicity and put these guys on the spot possibly.....
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We want 'out' Villa back. Is this just embarrassing grammar or am I missing something?
Not grammar error it's a typo and yes embarrassing when other teams fans see it!
Sorry, yes, typo. Makes us look thick and is embarrassing. Something I would associate with Wolves.
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Just what the hell do you think hankies, balloons, protests, turning your back, etc etc will achieve?
The grand sum of fuck all. Lerner has said he wants to sell, nobody wants to buy.
We will just look like the bloody geordies. We need to have some bloody dignity and take it on the chin. We know we're shit, we don't like it; No surprise there.
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Is there a good wordsmith out there? How about a page long advert in the Meaning Evil setting out the grievances we have and questions we genuinely want answers to ahead of the AGM?
Then continue with the adverts until we get some answers or action to address the slide whilst the current 'custodian' remains in charge.
I'd chuck a tenner in.....would get some decent publicity and put these guys on the spot possibly.....
There are plenty on here wordsmiths that is. However I would pick supertom with added venom from Saunders-heroes.
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The only protest that might get noticed is if Villa Park contained only away fans for one match and ALL of the Villa fans stayed away. Not that it would happen.
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As I mentioned in a previous post, I will be the one that will be sitting down and, not giving a standing ovation before the match. Players have taken us for mugs for long enough but, they will not see that if we keep giving these ridiculous standing ovations even before a ball is kicked. Have always joined in in the past but enough is enough. A deafening silence would send a real message to our so called players!
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WE WANT OUT VILLA BACK!
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Ok here is your chance, I bet less than 50
30 to start with a few more to turn up in straggling groups up to 7:30 because they couldn't be arsed leaving the pub, so 60 by 7:30. If it's cold and / or raining then most of the original 30 to abandon around then, with some of the stragglers joining them because they really need a piss. So 40 by 7:45 at which time some of them say "I didn't realise we were missing kick-off" and fuck off into the ground so by 8:00 it's the organiser and five of his mates.
After the match there are promises of a protest but it's initially lost in the crowd and after 20 minutes of trying to find each other and get organised they give it up as a bad job and go and get the train home.
Loads of posts on Facebook the day after ranging from "Great" to "You wankers don't deserve to support Aston Villa".
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I think this is going to get really really bad come march..
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Yes in March relegation will be confirmed however it's going to be ugly up to that point after that no one will care.
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Just what the hell do you think hankies, balloons, protests, turning your back, etc etc will achieve?
The grand sum of fuck all. Lerner has said he wants to sell, nobody wants to buy.
We will just look like the bloody geordies. We need to have some bloody dignity and take it on the chin. We know we're shit, we don't like it; No surprise there.
Dignity? you think that complaining about the mess we're in shows a lack of dignity? There's no dignity in watching your team lose every week and meekly accepting it. You take it on the chin if you like, I'll go down fucking ranting.
Dignity, I've heard it all
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Is there a good wordsmith out there? How about a page long advert in the Meaning Evil setting out the grievances we have and questions we genuinely want answers to ahead of the AGM?
Then continue with the adverts until we get some answers or action to address the slide whilst the current 'custodian' remains in charge.
I'd chuck a tenner in.....would get some decent publicity and put these guys on the spot possibly.....
This is the best idea I've heard so far.
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Protest for the Palace game will be pointless, it's a cold Tuesday night with the crowd set to be less than 30,000. If it's going to be done it should at least be a Saturday game where you may get more of a turnout.
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The only problems with a pitch invasion would be a) that it's a criminal offence; and b) organising it (and possibly participating in it) would get you banned for life from VP.
Although b) may not feel like much of a "problem" at the moment.
Villa Martyrs
how about everybody chips in say 20 quid each, enough to pay for me to fly to New York for a couple of weeks and I'll post catshit through Randy's letterbox every night, with a little note saying 'sell' ? It might be worth a try
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I sense the crowd is extremely close to losing it, another error strewn performance next week and it will happen I am sure. This will have far more impact than anything manufactured.
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I sense the crowd is extremely close to losing it, another error strewn performance next week and it will happen I am sure. This will have far more impact than anything manufactured.
I think you're right. There were a couple of times under Lambert when it got really close - aways at Millwall and Palace ( must be a South London thing) and I reckon there could well be an impromptu "protest" at The Emirates during the last game. Which would be ironic, given that The Emirates Stadium was the first game under Lerner's regime. It's symbolic, like closing the circle. Could come earlier, of course, but it will come.
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Just what the hell do you think hankies, balloons, protests, turning your back, etc etc will achieve?
The grand sum of fuck all.
Correct! I'd just like the look of it (turning your back) going on marches and chanting at some empty offices doesn't really appeal.
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I won't turn my back on the team. They're crap but it's not their fault that they're crap. Some are not good enough, some will be in a year or two, and all are playing with brittle confidence. We need someone in charge who understands football, understands the leagues, and understands who is needed, why and when. We won't be able to get a billionaire throwing x amount at it so we need an alternative.
As for protests it is pointless as we know Lerner wants to sell. A lack of money will also hurt us so not going or buying merchandise again only hurts us and won't get us sold any quicker. So we have an owner who wants to sell and a CEO who understands money but not football. I think more than anything its time for calls for someone like a director of football to handle the football side of the business because the legacy of Lerner's reign will be that there was a huge chasm between the business and the football side of things.
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Only the CEO clearly doesn't know that much about money seeing as he is acting like Comical Ali with glib statements about increased shirt deals and revenue whilst forgetting the fact that all that is reduced and then some in a lower league.
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I won't turn my back on the team. They're crap but it's not their fault that they're crap. Some are not good enough, some will be in a year or two, and all are playing with brittle confidence. We need someone in charge who understands football, understands the leagues, and understands who is needed, why and when. We won't be able to get a billionaire throwing x amount at it so we need an alternative.
As for protests it is pointless as we know Lerner wants to sell. A lack of money will also hurt us so not going or buying merchandise again only hurts us and won't get us sold any quicker. So we have an owner who wants to sell and a CEO who understands money but not football. I think more than anything its time for calls for someone like a director of football to handle the football side of the business because the legacy of Lerner's reign will be that there was a huge chasm between the business and the football side of things.
If it were up to me, I would see about the possibility of trying to get Dan Ashworth away from his role at the FA. He put some good structures in place during his time at Albion and got some decent players in for relatively small fees.
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What an eternal pity a few thousand more of you couldn't be arsed to join the anti Mcleish protest on the steps of the Holte.
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Just what the hell do you think hankies, balloons, protests, turning your back, etc etc will achieve?
The grand sum of fuck all.
Correct! I'd just like the look of it (turning your back) going on marches and chanting at some empty offices doesn't really appeal.
We might as well all give up then. *Sigh* Well, at least the club gave up first, I s'pose.
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I totally agree with protest of some description but will not be surprised in the slightest when the media portray us as whining, fickle Brummies throwing our toys out of the pram. They won't care for the previous years of shite served up post Moscow, they just see football fans stamping their feet.
To get our message over that the club has been run to the ground from the top down needs an eloquent spokesperson and an organised campaign.
Unfortunately I fear that like kicking in your photocopier when it doesn't work, the pleasure of a successful protest is short lived.
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The only real way to protest is to not show up at a match. Most people seem convinced we're down anyway so it'll hardly have any morale effect on the players
Have an afternoon/night off and go to the pub instead
Or turn up, put a white hanky on your set then leave
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Only the CEO clearly doesn't know that much about money seeing as he is acting like Comical Ali with glib statements about increased shirt deals and revenue whilst forgetting the fact that all that is reduced and then some in a lower league.
I'm sure he does but by trumpeting the finance deals he can/has directly affected i.e sponsorship, it makes him feel more confident in these interviews when the team's abject performance is the number one talking point which he obviously wants to discuss as little as possible. Being less kind, you could say he says it for self-preservation.
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I totally agree with protest of some description but will not be surprised in the slightest when the media portray us as whining, fickle Brummies throwing our toys out of the pram. They won't care for the previous years of shite served up post Moscow, they just see football fans stamping their feet.
To get our message over that the club has been run to the ground from the top down needs an eloquent spokesperson and an organised campaign.
Unfortunately I fear that like kicking in your photocopier when it doesn't work, the pleasure of a successful protest is short lived.
Waiting for the phrases "sense of entitlement" (by Albion fans) and "unrealistic expectations" (by the media) to be trotted out - unrealistic to expect more than 1 win in half a season? What a bunch fickle whining barstewards we all must be...
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Or seeing as their precious commercial department is doing so well perhaps it is in the hands of the supporter to see that it doesn't do so well. Maybe then the board will be focused on what really matters.
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As for protests it is pointless as we know Lerner wants to sell. A lack of money will also hurt us so not going or buying merchandise again only hurts us and won't get us sold any quicker. So we have an owner who wants to sell and a CEO who understands money but not football. I think more than anything its time for calls for someone like a director of football to handle the football side of the business because the legacy of Lerner's reign will be that there was a huge chasm between the business and the football side of things.
I can't see why it's pointless because he wants to sell. At the price he's asking he's unlikely to sell in the near future. So to me it's irrelevant. He owns us and any protest would be about the way he has chosen to run the club, which is basically wilful neglect.
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Talking of Smethwick mentioned above. I heard a rumour that they are planning a minutes applause in the 8th minute of the derby in celebration of our points haul this season. In the words of Keegan 'I would just love it etc....'
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Sign this if you interested enough:
https://www.change.org/p/lerneroutrandy-lerner-and-his-administration-out-of-aston-villa-now
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What an eternal pity a few thousand more of you couldn't be arsed to join the anti Mcleish protest on the steps of the Holte.
Why? If those people were protesting at his shit football and the stupidity of flip flopping from Martinez to him I would have joined in.
They weren't though. What we instead git was some minor criminal damage and lots of shouting that we "don't want a nose".
It was embarrassing at the time and used as a stick to beat our entire support with throughout his tenure.
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What an eternal pity a few thousand more of you couldn't be arsed to join the anti Mcleish protest on the steps of the Holte.
Why? If those people were protesting at his shit football and the stupidity of flip flopping from Martinez to him I would have joined in.
They weren't though. What we instead git was some minor criminal damage and lots of shouting that we "don't want a nose".
It was embarrassing at the time and used as a stick to beat our entire support with throughout his tenure.
Don't think it would have made any difference anyway, as they seemed set on McLeish. I still have absolutely no idea why - it was a baffling appointment on every level.
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Martinez or McLeish - that tells you all you need to know about the collective football knowledge of the custodians of the club at the time.
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Martinez or McLeish - that tells you all you need to know about the collective football knowledge of the custodians of the club at the time.
wasnt the job offered to martinez first
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What an eternal pity a few thousand more of you couldn't be arsed to join the anti Mcleish protest on the steps of the Holte.
Why? If those people were protesting at his shit football and the stupidity of flip flopping from Martinez to him I would have joined in.
They weren't though. What we instead git was some minor criminal damage and lots of shouting that we "don't want a nose".
It was embarrassing at the time and used as a stick to beat our entire support with throughout his tenure.
Not quite how I remember it from being stood on the steps of the Holte End. Lots of 'we don't want Mcleish', and 'first game, and you've got no fans'. I didn't want him because I thought he was a crap manager, who played a dull style of football and had just been relegated from the division. How do you know others didn't feel the same?
The media, Shearer etc. on MOTD spent half the season saying 'they won't accept him because of where he's come from', and would have done that whether we'd protested or not, due to their sheer ignorance.
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What an eternal pity a few thousand more of you couldn't be arsed to join the anti Mcleish protest on the steps of the Holte.
Why? If those people were protesting at his shit football and the stupidity of flip flopping from Martinez to him I would have joined in.
They weren't though. What we instead git was some minor criminal damage and lots of shouting that we "don't want a nose".
It was embarrassing at the time and used as a stick to beat our entire support with throughout his tenure.
There was a protest at his appointment - you didn't have to agree with every protesters reason for being there.
Everyone I spoke to that day was protesting the appointment of a poorly qualified manager, if small heath had been playing attractive structured football I wouldn't have been there - but they weren't - they were awful and the heathens were glad to see the back of him.
MON's departure gave Lerner a bloody nose and he's been taking it out on us ever since - the time to stand up to him was five years ago; and in our thousands we failed to do so.
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What an eternal pity a few thousand more of you couldn't be arsed to join the anti Mcleish protest on the steps of the Holte.
Why? If those people were protesting at his shit football and the stupidity of flip flopping from Martinez to him I would have joined in.
They weren't though. What we instead git was some minor criminal damage and lots of shouting that we "don't want a nose".
It was embarrassing at the time and used as a stick to beat our entire support with throughout his tenure.
There was a protest at his appointment - you didn't have to agree with every protesters reason for being there.
Everyone I spoke to that day was protesting the appointment of a poorly qualified manager, if small heath had been playing attractive structured football I wouldn't have been there - but they weren't - they were awful and the heathens were glad to see the back of him.
MON's departure gave Lerner a bloody nose and he's been taking it out on us ever since - the time to stand up to him was five years ago; and in our thousands we failed to do so.
Agreed, less than 1000 turned up to protest and that appointment was where the downward spiral really started. Instead fans just drifted away meekly, hoping things would improve and then they could return rather than being pro-active, reflected by gates of just 32 and 30 thousand for our first two home games that season, when the season before we'd averaged 37 thousand.
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What an eternal pity a few thousand more of you couldn't be arsed to join the anti Mcleish protest on the steps of the Holte.
Why? If those people were protesting at his shit football and the stupidity of flip flopping from Martinez to him I would have joined in.
They weren't though. What we instead git was some minor criminal damage and lots of shouting that we "don't want a nose".
It was embarrassing at the time and used as a stick to beat our entire support with throughout his tenure.
There was a protest at his appointment - you didn't have to agree with every protesters reason for being there.
Everyone I spoke to that day was protesting the appointment of a poorly qualified manager, if small heath had been playing attractive structured football I wouldn't have been there - but they weren't - they were awful and the heathens were glad to see the back of him.
MON's departure gave Lerner a bloody nose and he's been taking it out on us ever since - the time to stand up to him was five years ago; and in our thousands we failed to do so.
Agreed, less than 1000 turned up to protest and that appointment was where the downward spiral really started. Instead fans just drifted away meekly, hoping things would improve and then they could return rather than being pro-active, reflected by gates of just 32 and 30 thousand for our first two home games that season, when the season before we'd averaged 37 thousand.
There was a bigger turnout to sing the bells are ringing
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Martinez or McLeish - that tells you all you need to know about the collective football knowledge of the custodians of the club at the time.
wasnt the job offered to martinez first
We never actually spoke to him. But they hardly continued their search for a cultural football genius did they?
A Villa statement read: 'The club would like to thank Wigan Athletic Football Club and its chairman, Dave Whelan, for their professionalism in dealing with our request to speak to Roberto Martinez. 'Roberto's qualities as a young and aspirational manager ensured him of a position high on our short list of potential new managers.
'Given that he had one year remaining on his contract at Wigan, we made an official approach through the proper channels, though we were aware of a commitment he had made to his club to agree and sign a new contract following the final game of last season.
'Roberto met with his chairman earlier this week and he has made the decision to honour his commitment to Wigan.
'Therefore, we have not met Roberto and we have not had the opportunity to discuss the vacant managerial role with him.
'We remain focused and are working hard to secure the best candidate for Aston Villa who will complement the club's commitment to be true to our heritage, competitiveness and passionate fan base, and will have the new manager in place to prepare the players for the pre-season programme and next season's campaign.'
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Martinez or McLeish - that tells you all you need to know about the collective football knowledge of the custodians of the club at the time.
wasnt the job offered to martinez first
He was never offered the job but an interview about the job. Which he refused... Well that's what was reported at the time .
I wonder how different things might've been if we simply offered him the job & not an interview about the job .
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Martinez or McLeish - that tells you all you need to know about the collective football knowledge of the custodians of the club at the time.
Steve McLaren was in their thinking at the time as well, wasn't he?
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Yes and Benitez also turned down the job that summer after discussions.
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Some things get confused with when we took on Houllier. That was the first time you knew they were out of their depth.
Randy offered it to Moyes and thought he would walk here. He wouldn't drop Everton in it like MON had with us, so we asked for CV's to be sent in!
If I remember correctly both McLaren and Curbishley were on the same shortlist before the job went elsewhere. Venues fucked off in 5 minutes flat once he was told "the vision" (and budget).
Hughes was dismissed out of hand after less time for being too full of his own self importance and presumptuous for ditching Fulham before we called him.
Throw the McLeish/Martinez brain fart in and then sit back and wonder how we ended up here (and that is before you even start on Lambert and fucking Sherwood).
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I'm not so sure it's down to us taking on the wrong manager, I think it's more down to the better managers turning us down on every occasion.
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Immediately after MON left we should have still been a highly attractive proposition. The problem was most of them seemed to see straight through Randy's BS and realised it was going to be a hiding to nothing.
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Martinez or McLeish - that tells you all you need to know about the collective football knowledge of the custodians of the club at the time.
Steve McLaren was in their thinking at the time as well, wasn't he?
Talked himself out of it.
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It turned out badly of course but we all wanted Lambert and he was a prized asset at the time as hard as that is to believe now. That was a "right" appointment that went horribly wrong
McLeish still causes me to shake my head in sheer disbelief. Did that really happen?
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I wonder if we hadn't been so quick to dismiss Hughes what would have been. He's done a good job at Stoke and he might have got us stabilised during that first season after MON.
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What an eternal pity a few thousand more of you couldn't be arsed to join the anti Mcleish protest on the steps of the Holte.
Why? If those people were protesting at his shit football and the stupidity of flip flopping from Martinez to him I would have joined in.
They weren't though. What we instead git was some minor criminal damage and lots of shouting that we "don't want a nose".
It was embarrassing at the time and used as a stick to beat our entire support with throughout his tenure.
There was a protest at his appointment - you didn't have to agree with every protesters reason for being there.
Everyone I spoke to that day was protesting the appointment of a poorly qualified manager, if small heath had been playing attractive structured football I wouldn't have been there - but they weren't - they were awful and the heathens were glad to see the back of him.
MON's departure gave Lerner a bloody nose and he's been taking it out on us ever since - the time to stand up to him was five years ago; and in our thousands we failed to do so.
Agreed, less than 1000 turned up to protest and that appointment was where the downward spiral really started. Instead fans just drifted away meekly, hoping things would improve and then they could return rather than being pro-active, reflected by gates of just 32 and 30 thousand for our first two home games that season, when the season before we'd averaged 37 thousand.
There was a bigger turnout to sing the bells are ringing
That was another fuck up. Everybody thought their effort would be played at Villa Park, instead of that other rubbish.
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It turned out badly of course but we all wanted Lambert and he was a prized asset at the time as hard as that is to believe now. That was a "right" appointment that went horribly wrong
Yep, I wanted Lambert as well. I felt he was the right appointment at the time, but the mistake they made was letting him flounder for too long. All in hindsight now, but the terrible run we went on at the end of his second season along with the trouble with his coaches should have been the end of the road for him.
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It turned out badly of course but we all wanted Lambert and he was a prized asset at the time as hard as that is to believe now. That was a "right" appointment that went horribly wrong
McLeish still causes me to shake my head in sheer disbelief. Did that really happen?
I wish people would stop saying we all wanted Lambert, I didn't
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The only real way to protest is to not show up at a match. Most people seem convinced we're down anyway so it'll hardly have any morale effect on the players
I like this one because, as I never go anyway I can not go AND pretend I'm joining in with the protest.
Win / win.
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Sign this if you interested enough:
https://www.change.org/p/lerneroutrandy-lerner-and-his-administration-out-of-aston-villa-now
A petition urging Lerner to sell a club he is already trying to sell.
Marvellous.
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It turned out badly of course but we all wanted Lambert and he was a prized asset at the time as hard as that is to believe now. That was a "right" appointment that went horribly wrong
McLeish still causes me to shake my head in sheer disbelief. Did that really happen?
I wish people would stop saying we all wanted Lambert, I didn't
Me either, I wanted Rodgers and had a brief fling with OGS. So to be fair to Lerner & the board my choices would have probably been just as poor.
To be extra fair I think Lamberts first season was promising.
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Sign this if you interested enough:
https://www.change.org/p/lerneroutrandy-lerner-and-his-administration-out-of-aston-villa-now
A petition urging Lerner to sell a club he is already trying to sell.
Marvellous.
If he really wanted to sell it , he could have done so.
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It turned out badly of course but we all wanted Lambert and he was a prized asset at the time as hard as that is to believe now. That was a "right" appointment that went horribly wrong
McLeish still causes me to shake my head in sheer disbelief. Did that really happen?
I wish people would stop saying we all wanted Lambert, I didn't
Me too. Although in saying that, I wasn't too downhearted at Lamberts appointment at the time.
I still can't get over how well he looks - I feel like protesting about my hard earned money going towards his laser eye surgery, while it was the supporters who needed eye surgery watching some of the horrific football his teams served up.
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Sign this if you interested enough:
https://www.change.org/p/lerneroutrandy-lerner-and-his-administration-out-of-aston-villa-now
A petition urging Lerner to sell a club he is already trying to sell.
Marvellous.
If he really wanted to sell it , he could have done so.
To whom? I want him gone but I've honestly had enough of grown adults that can't grasp a fairly simple fucking concept.
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It turned out badly of course but we all wanted Lambert and he was a prized asset at the time as hard as that is to believe now. That was a "right" appointment that went horribly wrong
McLeish still causes me to shake my head in sheer disbelief. Did that really happen?
I didn't.
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I wonder if we hadn't been so quick to dismiss Hughes what would have been. He's done a good job at Stoke and he might have got us stabilised during that first season after MON.
Agree totally. Every time the job has come up i hoped we'd get Hughes. I'm another who didn't want Lambert.
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Sign this if you interested enough:
https://www.change.org/p/lerneroutrandy-lerner-and-his-administration-out-of-aston-villa-now
A petition urging Lerner to sell a club he is already trying to sell.
Marvellous.
If he really wanted to sell it , he could have done so.
To whom? I want him gone but I've honestly had enough of grown adults that can't grasp a fairly simple fucking concept.
Sorry about that! What's the fairly simple concept?
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Sign this if you interested enough:
https://www.change.org/p/lerneroutrandy-lerner-and-his-administration-out-of-aston-villa-now
A petition urging Lerner to sell a club he is already trying to sell.
Marvellous.
If he really wanted to sell it , he could have done so.
To whom? I want him gone but I've honestly had enough of grown adults that can't grasp a fairly simple fucking concept.
Sorry about that! What's the fairly simple concept?
The concept of only being able to sell something if there is a buyer.
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Sign this if you interested enough:
https://www.change.org/p/lerneroutrandy-lerner-and-his-administration-out-of-aston-villa-now
A petition urging Lerner to sell a club he is already trying to sell.
Marvellous.
If he really wanted to sell it , he could have done so.
To whom? I want him gone but I've honestly had enough of grown adults that can't grasp a fairly simple fucking concept.
Sorry about that! What's the fairly simple concept?
The concept of only being able to sell something if there is a buyer.
I understand that and there are plenty of things in this world that you couldn't find a buyer for, but Aston Villa isn't one of them.
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I'd like to buy it mate, but I haven't got a spare £150m. I suspect all other interested parties find themselves in the same predicament.
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Alternatively drop the price to a point where Carsen's Yeung's less scrupulous but even more dodgy younger brother can have a go.
Or I'm sure Ray Ransom would still be interested if the price was right.
Or that consortium that's done such a wonderful for Coventry can probably raise enough cash by selling Cov and mortgaging themselves (us) to the hilt if the price drops to around £100M.
Right now this is undeniably utterly gut wrenchingly shit.
Believe it or not it could be worse.
It could have been someone as hopelessly out of his depth as Lerner and who'd done all of the money after the buyout as loans with banks.
Or even better, borrowed the money to buy us.
I think that they're called Leeds and Portsmouth.
There's obviously a sliding scale where the number of potential buyers increases as the price decreases.
Unfortunately the chances of hitting an absolute shyster also increase as the price decreases.
10 years ago the overwhelming feeling I recall was "anyone but Ellis." That worked our well didn't it?
We sure as he'll can't afford our "anyone but Lerner" being the same or worse.
EDIT: The anyone but Ellis line is in no way, shape or form a pining for the Days of Doug. If he'd had to make his 80's comeback at all, his time had gone by the mid 90's at the absolute latest.
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Alternatively drop the price to a point where Carsen's Yeung's less scrupulous but even more dodgy younger brother can have a go.
Or I'm sure Ray Ransom would still be interested if the price was right.
Or that consortium that's done such a wonderful for Coventry can probably raise enough cash by selling Cov and mortgaging themselves (us) to the hilt if the price drops to around £100M.
Right now this is undeniably utterly gut wrenchingly shit.
Believe it or not it could be worse.
It could have been someone as hopelessly out of his depth as Lerner and who'd done all of the money after the buyout as loans with banks.
Or even better, borrowed the money to buy us.
I think that they're called Leeds and Portsmouth.
There's obviously a sliding scale where the number of potential buyers increases as the price decreases.
Unfortunately the chances of hitting an absolute shyster also increase as the price decreases.
10 years ago the overwhelming feeling I recall was "anyone but Ellis." That worked our well didn't it?
We sure as he'll can't afford our "anyone but Lerner" being the same or worse.
EDIT: The anyone but Ellis line is in no way, shape or form a pining for the Days of Doug. If he'd had to make his 80's comeback at all, his time had gone by the mid 90's at the absolute latest.
Agree with this. As bad as the current situation is, it could be a lot worse.
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I'd like to buy it mate, but I haven't got a spare £150m. I suspect all other interested parties find themselves in the same predicament.
I doubt prospective purchasers see that as a predicament, it's just a ridiculous asking price that no ones going to pay.
If and when Lerner gets real , the club will be sold.
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Some things get confused with when we took on Houllier. That was the first time you knew they were out of their depth.
As I recall when Houllier was appointed, I am sure General Krulak said something along the lines of deliberately not going after someone already in a job as that automatically made their loyalties and commitment to the cause suspect. An admirably Corinthian policy but not ideal for running a football club in the 21st Century.
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Alternatively drop the price to a point where Carsen's Yeung's less scrupulous but even more dodgy younger brother can have a go.
Or I'm sure Ray Ransom would still be interested if the price was right.
Or that consortium that's done such a wonderful for Coventry can probably raise enough cash by selling Cov and mortgaging themselves (us) to the hilt if the price drops to around £100M.
Right now this is undeniably utterly gut wrenchingly shit.
Believe it or not it could be worse.
It could have been someone as hopelessly out of his depth as Lerner and who'd done all of the money after the buyout as loans with banks.
Or even better, borrowed the money to buy us.
I think that they're called Leeds and Portsmouth.
There's obviously a sliding scale where the number of potential buyers increases as the price decreases.
Unfortunately the chances of hitting an absolute shyster also increase as the price decreases.
10 years ago the overwhelming feeling I recall was "anyone but Ellis." That worked our well didn't it?
We sure as he'll can't afford our "anyone but Lerner" being the same or worse.
EDIT: The anyone but Ellis line is in no way, shape or form a pining for the Days of Doug. If he'd had to make his 80's comeback at all, his time had gone by the mid 90's at the absolute latest.
Spot on for me.
Where are the investors with true intentions and money of their own to Invest ?
We could easily become, Small Heath, Leeds or Portsmouth.
Times are tough out there for billionaires.
Chelsea, The Russian paid the money long ago and Chelsea are a Fashionable London Address.
Utd, Much said about the Glaziers, but with their world wide appeal they generate cash.
Liverpool, American consortium, and again however much we may dislike it they have a more successful recent history than us and have a global following that we do not have.
Citeh, they must still be pinching themselves to believe it is true. I think Monseur (spelling?) bought them as they were in Manchester and guaranteed to have coverage as Rivals to Utd.
Who else ?
Everton have been for sale for ever
I also dreamt about Doug going, Lerner may have lost interest and made many bad (terrible) management decisions but he is not a Carson type Shyster, at a lower price as VID says they will be crawling out of the woodwork.
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I'd like to buy it mate, but I haven't got a spare £150m. I suspect all other interested parties find themselves in the same predicament.
I doubt prospective purchasers see that as a predicament, it's just a ridiculous asking price that no ones going to pay.
If and when Lerner gets real , the club will be sold.
What price do you think would be realistic?
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I'd like to buy it mate, but I haven't got a spare £150m. I suspect all other interested parties find themselves in the same predicament.
I doubt prospective purchasers see that as a predicament, it's just a ridiculous asking price that no ones going to pay.
If and when Lerner gets real , the club will be sold.
What price do you think would be realistic?
scrap value at the moment
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Some things get confused with when we took on Houllier. That was the first time you knew they were out of their depth.
As I recall when Houllier was appointed, I am sure General Krulak said something along the lines of deliberately not going after someone already in a job as that automatically made their loyalties and commitment to the cause suspect. An admirably Corinthian policy but not ideal for running a football club in the 21st Century.
Yep. When faced with their first proper decision they invited postal applications and then decided on a "Premier League experience only" policy.
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Which they did with AMc, well sort of, he had the experience of coming from a team he had relegated. Rewarding failure.
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I'm no businessman but surely if Learner really wanted to sell, he would make the club an attractive propersition to a potential buyer IE in a challenging league position with good players playing attractive football and just waiting to collect the TV windfall. We're anything but that
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Alternatively drop the price to a point where Carsen's Yeung's less scrupulous but even more dodgy younger brother can have a go.
Or I'm sure Ray Ransom would still be interested if the price was right.
Or that consortium that's done such a wonderful for Coventry can probably raise enough cash by selling Cov and mortgaging themselves (us) to the hilt if the price drops to around £100M.
Right now this is undeniably utterly gut wrenchingly shit.
Believe it or not it could be worse.
It could have been someone as hopelessly out of his depth as Lerner and who'd done all of the money after the buyout as loans with banks.
Or even better, borrowed the money to buy us.
I think that they're called Leeds and Portsmouth.
There's obviously a sliding scale where the number of potential buyers increases as the price decreases.
Unfortunately the chances of hitting an absolute shyster also increase as the price decreases.
10 years ago the overwhelming feeling I recall was "anyone but Ellis." That worked our well didn't it?
We sure as he'll can't afford our "anyone but Lerner" being the same or worse.
EDIT: The anyone but Ellis line is in no way, shape or form a pining for the Days of Doug. If he'd had to make his 80's comeback at all, his time had gone by the mid 90's at the absolute latest.
Agree with this. As bad as the current situation is, it could be a lot worse.
Or glass half full - it could be a lot better
-
Alternatively drop the price to a point where Carsen's Yeung's less scrupulous but even more dodgy younger brother can have a go.
Or I'm sure Ray Ransom would still be interested if the price was right.
Or that consortium that's done such a wonderful for Coventry can probably raise enough cash by selling Cov and mortgaging themselves (us) to the hilt if the price drops to around £100M.
Right now this is undeniably utterly gut wrenchingly shit.
Believe it or not it could be worse.
It could have been someone as hopelessly out of his depth as Lerner and who'd done all of the money after the buyout as loans with banks.
Or even better, borrowed the money to buy us.
I think that they're called Leeds and Portsmouth.
There's obviously a sliding scale where the number of potential buyers increases as the price decreases.
Unfortunately the chances of hitting an absolute shyster also increase as the price decreases.
10 years ago the overwhelming feeling I recall was "anyone but Ellis." That worked our well didn't it?
We sure as he'll can't afford our "anyone but Lerner" being the same or worse.
EDIT: The anyone but Ellis line is in no way, shape or form a pining for the Days of Doug. If he'd had to make his 80's comeback at all, his time had gone by the mid 90's at the absolute latest.
Agree with this. As bad as the current situation is, it could be a lot worse.
Or glass half full - it could be a lot better
Go for it, explain how.
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Alternatively drop the price to a point where Carsen's Yeung's less scrupulous but even more dodgy younger brother can have a go.
Or I'm sure Ray Ransom would still be interested if the price was right.
Or that consortium that's done such a wonderful for Coventry can probably raise enough cash by selling Cov and mortgaging themselves (us) to the hilt if the price drops to around £100M.
Right now this is undeniably utterly gut wrenchingly shit.
Believe it or not it could be worse.
It could have been someone as hopelessly out of his depth as Lerner and who'd done all of the money after the buyout as loans with banks.
Or even better, borrowed the money to buy us.
I think that they're called Leeds and Portsmouth.
There's obviously a sliding scale where the number of potential buyers increases as the price decreases.
Unfortunately the chances of hitting an absolute shyster also increase as the price decreases.
10 years ago the overwhelming feeling I recall was "anyone but Ellis." That worked our well didn't it?
We sure as he'll can't afford our "anyone but Lerner" being the same or worse.
EDIT: The anyone but Ellis line is in no way, shape or form a pining for the Days of Doug. If he'd had to make his 80's comeback at all, his time had gone by the mid 90's at the absolute latest.
Agree with this. As bad as the current situation is, it could be a lot worse.
Or glass half full - it could be a lot better
Go for it, explain how.
Well... Somebody with a lot of money and some level of business acumen meets the asking price and employs the right people to stop us from being quite as rubbish as we currently are.
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What Dave said
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Which is why the last line was
We sure as he'll can't afford our "anyone but Lerner" being the same or worse.
No one's arguing against that the sooner Lerner sells the better, but that's only true if it's to someone who can improve us.
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I'd like to buy it mate, but I haven't got a spare £150m. I suspect all other interested parties find themselves in the same predicament.
I doubt prospective purchasers see that as a predicament, it's just a ridiculous asking price that no ones going to pay.
If and when Lerner gets real , the club will be sold.
What price do you think would be realistic?
Considerably less than £150m , for a club facing certain relegation, with a squad (current "assets" in accounting terms) consisting of numerous players who are literally worthless.
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I've got $17.55 in my wallet and a HSC in physical education - can I buy us?
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I think in the summer we were worth £150m, PL ever-present with excellent stadium, training and youth facilities, and a name in English football. A proper buyer could have bought us and got us up the league. That chance has gone and now we are obviously worth a lot less.
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Alternatively drop the price to a point where Carsen's Yeung's less scrupulous but even more dodgy younger brother can have a go.
Or I'm sure Ray Ransom would still be interested if the price was right.
Or that consortium that's done such a wonderful for Coventry can probably raise enough cash by selling Cov and mortgaging themselves (us) to the hilt if the price drops to around £100M.
Right now this is undeniably utterly gut wrenchingly shit.
Believe it or not it could be worse.
It could have been someone as hopelessly out of his depth as Lerner and who'd done all of the money after the buyout as loans with banks.
Or even better, borrowed the money to buy us.
I think that they're called Leeds and Portsmouth.
There's obviously a sliding scale where the number of potential buyers increases as the price decreases.
Unfortunately the chances of hitting an absolute shyster also increase as the price decreases.
10 years ago the overwhelming feeling I recall was "anyone but Ellis." That worked our well didn't it?
We sure as he'll can't afford our "anyone but Lerner" being the same or worse.
EDIT: The anyone but Ellis line is in no way, shape or form a pining for the Days of Doug. If he'd had to make his 80's comeback at all, his time had gone by the mid 90's at the absolute latest.
Agree with this. As bad as the current situation is, it could be a lot worse.
Or glass half full - it could be a lot better
Err, not quite sure you've got what I was saying. It is crap and has been for some time under Lerner, but it could be worse. We could have an owner like the ones at Cardiff or Hull with them trying to change the kit or the name of the club or we could be facing the prospect of relegation in the financial situation Portsmouth and Leeds were.
That said, I can't help but feel there is some further bad news to come.
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I reckon as income drops 40% from the PL to the Championship, the overhaul of the squad and no gurentee of promotion I think Randy would do well to get £80 million for us right now.
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Alternatively drop the price to a point where Carsen's Yeung's less scrupulous but even more dodgy younger brother can have a go.
Or I'm sure Ray Ransom would still be interested if the price was right.
Or that consortium that's done such a wonderful for Coventry can probably raise enough cash by selling Cov and mortgaging themselves (us) to the hilt if the price drops to around £100M.
Right now this is undeniably utterly gut wrenchingly shit.
Believe it or not it could be worse.
It could have been someone as hopelessly out of his depth as Lerner and who'd done all of the money after the buyout as loans with banks.
Or even better, borrowed the money to buy us.
I think that they're called Leeds and Portsmouth.
There's obviously a sliding scale where the number of potential buyers increases as the price decreases.
Unfortunately the chances of hitting an absolute shyster also increase as the price decreases.
10 years ago the overwhelming feeling I recall was "anyone but Ellis." That worked our well didn't it?
We sure as he'll can't afford our "anyone but Lerner" being the same or worse.
EDIT: The anyone but Ellis line is in no way, shape or form a pining for the Days of Doug. If he'd had to make his 80's comeback at all, his time had gone by the mid 90's at the absolute latest.
Agree with this. As bad as the current situation is, it could be a lot worse.
Or glass half full - it could be a lot better
Err, not quite sure you've got what I was saying. It is crap and has been for some time under Lerner, but it could be worse. We could have an owner like the ones at Cardiff or Hull with them trying to change the kit or the name of the club or we could be facing the prospect of relegation in the financial situation Portsmouth and Leeds were.
That said, I can't help but feel there is some further bad news to come.
Or it could be better - we could've had an owner like Citeh and ploughed $1000m into the squad, it's all about how you want to look at stuff - some people think negative, others positive. I'm the latter.
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That's not the argument I was making though.
The argument is that it is undeniably shit right now, but for anyone wanting "anyone but Lerner" - be careful what you wish for because we can't afford another Lerner or worse. Not that that's what will eventually happen.
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Alternatively drop the price to a point where Carsen's Yeung's less scrupulous but even more dodgy younger brother can have a go.
Or I'm sure Ray Ransom would still be interested if the price was right.
Or that consortium that's done such a wonderful for Coventry can probably raise enough cash by selling Cov and mortgaging themselves (us) to the hilt if the price drops to around £100M.
Right now this is undeniably utterly gut wrenchingly shit.
Believe it or not it could be worse.
It could have been someone as hopelessly out of his depth as Lerner and who'd done all of the money after the buyout as loans with banks.
Or even better, borrowed the money to buy us.
I think that they're called Leeds and Portsmouth.
There's obviously a sliding scale where the number of potential buyers increases as the price decreases.
Unfortunately the chances of hitting an absolute shyster also increase as the price decreases.
10 years ago the overwhelming feeling I recall was "anyone but Ellis." That worked our well didn't it?
We sure as he'll can't afford our "anyone but Lerner" being the same or worse.
EDIT: The anyone but Ellis line is in no way, shape or form a pining for the Days of Doug. If he'd had to make his 80's comeback at all, his time had gone by the mid 90's at the absolute latest.
Agree with this. As bad as the current situation is, it could be a lot worse.
Or glass half full - it could be a lot better
Err, not quite sure you've got what I was saying. It is crap and has been for some time under Lerner, but it could be worse. We could have an owner like the ones at Cardiff or Hull with them trying to change the kit or the name of the club or we could be facing the prospect of relegation in the financial situation Portsmouth and Leeds were.
That said, I can't help but feel there is some further bad news to come.
Or it could be better - we could've had an owner like Citeh and ploughed $1000m into the squad, it's all about how you want to look at stuff - some people think negative, others positive. I'm the latter.
Sorry to be pedantic, but I am looking on the positive side aren't I? Saying it's a bad situation, but could be a whole lot worse is a positive way of thinking isn't it?
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That's not the argument I was making though.
The argument is that it is undeniably shit right now, but for anyone wanting "anyone but Lerner" - be careful what you wish for because we can't afford another Lerner or worse. Not that that's what will eventually happen.
I agree with this and the other post. I love a good demonstration like the best of them. I spent my formative years getting a kicking by West Yorkshire and Nottingham police during the miners strike and still go to marches and demos when the mood takes me.
I cannot see other then he is hopeless at running a sports "franchise" what we can demonstrate about. He wants out, what we don't need is a sale at any price to some of the charlatans running clubs now. I have never had a doubt that Randy means well and having met him, he is a lovely guy he just makes the big decisions poorly consistently....
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Sign this if you interested enough:
https://www.change.org/p/lerneroutrandy-lerner-and-his-administration-out-of-aston-villa-now
A petition urging Lerner to sell a club he is already trying to sell.
Marvellous.
If he really wanted to sell it , he could have done so.
If you are happy for your club to be sold to any chancer or asset stripper who can stump up something near the asking price then fine, I guess he could have found a buyer, I'd much rather his last actions at VP be him selling to someone who can bring us back to where we should be as a club.
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There is a very good chance of us ending up being owned by a gambler or a chancer even asset strippers if the price drops too low. So I think it's best that Lerner holds out for decent seller value that should mean a serious player buying us.
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What's the parachute payment this year?
I'm sure I read on here that it's £100m this year?
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That's not the argument I was making though.
The argument is that it is undeniably shit right now, but for anyone wanting "anyone but Lerner" - be careful what you wish for because we can't afford another Lerner or worse. Not that that's what will eventually happen.
I agree with this and the other post. I love a good demonstration like the best of them. I spent my formative years getting a kicking by West Yorkshire and Nottingham police during the miners strike and still go to marches and demos when the mood takes me.
I cannot see other then he is hopeless at running a sports "franchise" what we can demonstrate about. He wants out, what we don't need is a sale at any price to some of the charlatans running clubs now. I have never had a doubt that Randy means well and having met him, he is a lovely guy he just makes the big decisions poorly consistently....
The decisions are bad because he's tried to do things on the cheap.
Next season we need a decent manager and some decent players, these things cost money which Lerner has plenty of.
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That's not the argument I was making though.
The argument is that it is undeniably shit right now, but for anyone wanting "anyone but Lerner" - be careful what you wish for because we can't afford another Lerner or worse. Not that that's what will eventually happen.
I agree with this and the other post. I love a good demonstration like the best of them. I spent my formative years getting a kicking by West Yorkshire and Nottingham police during the miners strike and still go to marches and demos when the mood takes me.
I cannot see other then he is hopeless at running a sports "franchise" what we can demonstrate about. He wants out, what we don't need is a sale at any price to some of the charlatans running clubs now. I have never had a doubt that Randy means well and having met him, he is a lovely guy he just makes the big decisions poorly consistently....
The decisions are bad because he's tried to do things on the cheap.
Next season we need a decent manager and some decent players, these things cost money which Lerner has plenty of.
Like I've said before, I wouldn't consider paying nearly £10m on a left back cheap.
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That's not the argument I was making though.
The argument is that it is undeniably shit right now, but for anyone wanting "anyone but Lerner" - be careful what you wish for because we can't afford another Lerner or worse. Not that that's what will eventually happen.
I agree with this and the other post. I love a good demonstration like the best of them. I spent my formative years getting a kicking by West Yorkshire and Nottingham police during the miners strike and still go to marches and demos when the mood takes me.
I cannot see other then he is hopeless at running a sports "franchise" what we can demonstrate about. He wants out, what we don't need is a sale at any price to some of the charlatans running clubs now. I have never had a doubt that Randy means well and having met him, he is a lovely guy he just makes the big decisions poorly consistently....
The decisions are bad because he's tried to do things on the cheap.
Next season we need a decent manager and some decent players, these things cost money which Lerner has plenty of.
saunders_heroes mk II. Yawn.
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I wonder if we hadn't been so quick to dismiss Hughes what would have been. He's done a good job at Stoke and he might have got us stabilised during that first season after MON.
Agree totally. Every time the job has come up i hoped we'd get Hughes. I'm another who didn't want Lambert.
I'd have liked Hughes in 2011 - certainly ahead of the other options on offer. Even Martinez would have been a huge punt but I suppose the football would have been entertaining if not effective under him.
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Some things get confused with when we took on Houllier. That was the first time you knew they were out of their depth.
As I recall when Houllier was appointed, I am sure General Krulak said something along the lines of deliberately not going after someone already in a job as that automatically made their loyalties and commitment to the cause suspect. An admirably Corinthian policy but not ideal for running a football club in the 21st Century.
Yep. When faced with their first proper decision they invited postal applications and then decided on a "Premier League experience only" policy.
That pre-requisite has got to be the most ludicrous in the history of recruitment. Here are the manager's over the last 30 years who would have failed that test at various times:
1) Alex Ferguson
2) Arsene Wenger
3) Gerard Houiller
4) Mourinho
5) Ancelotti
6) Benitez
7) Pochetino
8) Martinez
9) Pellegrini
10) Klopp
whereas Peter Reid, Iain Dowie, Bryan Robson and whole hosts of mediocrity would have sufficed.
Currently Guardiola would not qualify. That is how fucking dumb that Pre-Requisite was?
It's like they thought, who's available? Yep him he used to be good so every tells us so get him. Prior Health Problems - no worries. Get someone into help him. Is he is assistant any good? So So - his last job was being an assistant in the league below and he wasn't very good but he was a really good footballer. Ok get him too then.
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There is a very good chance of us ending up being owned by a gambler or a chancer even asset strippers if the price drops too low. So I think it's best that Lerner holds out for decent seller value that should mean a serious player buying us.
I agree - otherwise we are asking for serious trouble.
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That's not the argument I was making though.
The argument is that it is undeniably shit right now, but for anyone wanting "anyone but Lerner" - be careful what you wish for because we can't afford another Lerner or worse. Not that that's what will eventually happen.
I agree with this and the other post. I love a good demonstration like the best of them. I spent my formative years getting a kicking by West Yorkshire and Nottingham police during the miners strike and still go to marches and demos when the mood takes me.
I cannot see other then he is hopeless at running a sports "franchise" what we can demonstrate about. He wants out, what we don't need is a sale at any price to some of the charlatans running clubs now. I have never had a doubt that Randy means well and having met him, he is a lovely guy he just makes the big decisions poorly consistently....
The decisions are bad because he's tried to do things on the cheap.
Next season we need a decent manager and some decent players, these things cost money which Lerner has plenty of.
Please can you advise of the total sum spent on wages on the playing side and how we compare to others in the league say over the last 2 years - leave out the promoted teams.
Then advise how much - total and % on top of that you would have deemed acceptable to spend on wages.
Oh and finally advise where this additional money would have came from bearing in mind the precarious state of the finances (on paper) of the club which precipitated the mess in the first place.
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That pre-requisite has got to be the most ludicrous in the history of recruitment. Here are the manager's over the last 30 years who would have failed that test at various times:
1) Alex Ferguson
2) Arsene Wenger
3) Gerard Houiller
4) Mourinho
5) Ancelotti
6) Benitez
7) Pochetino
8) Martinez
9) Pellegrini
10) Klopp
whereas Peter Reid, Iain Dowie, Bryan Robson and whole hosts of mediocrity would have sufficed.
Currently Guardiola would not qualify. That is how fucking dumb that Pre-Requisite was?
It's like they thought, who's available? Yep him he used to be good so every tells us so get him. Prior Health Problems - no worries. Get someone into help him. Is he is assistant any good? So So - his last job was being an assistant in the league below and he wasn't very good but he was a really good footballer. Ok get him too then.
The vast majority of those wouldn't have been attainable for us though at the points they came in to the Premier League. The kind of manager market we shop in means at times having PL experience is a plus, although it shouldn't have been as black and white as 'no PL experience, not under consideration'.
This season for example, Sunderland got Allardyce with PL experience and have a decent chance of staying up. We went with an unknown foreign gamble and have next to no chance.
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That pre-requisite has got to be the most ludicrous in the history of recruitment. Here are the manager's over the last 30 years who would have failed that test at various times:
1) Alex Ferguson
2) Arsene Wenger
3) Gerard Houiller
4) Mourinho
5) Ancelotti
6) Benitez
7) Pochetino
8) Martinez
9) Pellegrini
10) Klopp
whereas Peter Reid, Iain Dowie, Bryan Robson and whole hosts of mediocrity would have sufficed.
Currently Guardiola would not qualify. That is how fucking dumb that Pre-Requisite was?
It's like they thought, who's available? Yep him he used to be good so every tells us so get him. Prior Health Problems - no worries. Get someone into help him. Is he is assistant any good? So So - his last job was being an assistant in the league below and he wasn't very good but he was a really good footballer. Ok get him too then.
The vast majority of those wouldn't have been attainable for us though at the points they came in to the Premier League. The kind of manager market we shop in means at times having PL experience is a plus, although it shouldn't have been as black and white as 'no PL experience, not under consideration'.
This season for example, Sunderland got Allardyce with PL experience and have a decent chance of staying up. We went with an unknown foreign gamble and have next to no chance.
The must have Premiership experience was a deal breaker. Therefore it ruled out a whole swathe of potential candidates such as Pochetino, Koeman, Laudrup or those of that ilk could have been considered at that time in 2011.
It was a stupid pre-requisite. Utter fuckwittery and the alarm bells started ringing at the time.
As for Sunderland it remains to be seen if they stay up. I'm sure Sam could have a done a job in February 2011 to keep us up and again last season. Not sure we'd be any better this season though.
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That pre-requisite has got to be the most ludicrous in the history of recruitment. Here are the manager's over the last 30 years who would have failed that test at various times:
1) Alex Ferguson
2) Arsene Wenger
3) Gerard Houiller
4) Mourinho
5) Ancelotti
6) Benitez
7) Pochetino
8) Martinez
9) Pellegrini
10) Klopp
whereas Peter Reid, Iain Dowie, Bryan Robson and whole hosts of mediocrity would have sufficed.
Currently Guardiola would not qualify. That is how fucking dumb that Pre-Requisite was?
It's like they thought, who's available? Yep him he used to be good so every tells us so get him. Prior Health Problems - no worries. Get someone into help him. Is he is assistant any good? So So - his last job was being an assistant in the league below and he wasn't very good but he was a really good footballer. Ok get him too then.
The vast majority of those wouldn't have been attainable for us though at the points they came in to the Premier League. The kind of manager market we shop in means at times having PL experience is a plus, although it shouldn't have been as black and white as 'no PL experience, not under consideration'.
This season for example, Sunderland got Allardyce with PL experience and have a decent chance of staying up. We went with an unknown foreign gamble and have next to no chance.
The must have Premiership experience was a deal breaker. Therefore it ruled out a whole swathe of potential candidates such as Pochetino, Koeman, Laudrup or those of that ilk could have been considered at that time in 2011.
It was a stupid pre-requisite. Utter fuckwittery and the alarm bells started ringing at the time.
As for Sunderland it remains to be seen if they stay up. I'm sure Sam could have a done a job in February 2011 to keep us up and again last season. Not sure we'd be any better this season though.
Agreed as a strict pre-requisite it's silly. I can see why it may be seen as favourable, and a lower-risk appointment though.
It remains to be seen of course, but Big Sam has won 4 games compared to Garde 0 and hasn't been there much longer. I refuse to believe we wouldn't be better than 4 points from 9 games if Allardyce had come in, Sunderland are awful and have defenders like Brown, O'Shea and Van Aanholt in their ranks.
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http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jun/02/parachute-payments-clubs-relegated-premier-league
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That's not the argument I was making though.
The argument is that it is undeniably shit right now, but for anyone wanting "anyone but Lerner" - be careful what you wish for because we can't afford another Lerner or worse. Not that that's what will eventually happen.
I agree with this and the other post. I love a good demonstration like the best of them. I spent my formative years getting a kicking by West Yorkshire and Nottingham police during the miners strike and still go to marches and demos when the mood takes me.
I cannot see other then he is hopeless at running a sports "franchise" what we can demonstrate about. He wants out, what we don't need is a sale at any price to some of the charlatans running clubs now. I have never had a doubt that Randy means well and having met him, he is a lovely guy he just makes the big decisions poorly consistently....
The decisions are bad because he's tried to do things on the cheap.
Next season we need a decent manager and some decent players, these things cost money which Lerner has plenty of.
saunders_heroes mk II. Yawn.
I thought he made a valid point. Why rubbish the views of other posters?
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Then can he reply to my request with some finance based facts as Lerner having plenty of money (having spent 200m+ on our hobby) and I will be pleased to be illuminated by how much more he should have spent on Villa's Player transfer and more importantly wages above and beyond what has already been spent.
E.g. Heskey cost 3.5m in transfer and c£10m in wages. Given similar and c12m in wages.
E.g. CNZ cost 9.5m and will also cost £12-15m in wages.
And how this could be financed unless you allude that Lerner should have spent more and more. £100m more? £200m more? £300m more.
We all know what he did spend was oft spent unwisely but how much more should he spend.
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Then can he reply to my request with some finance based facts as Lerner having plenty of money (having spent 200m+ on our hobby) and I will be pleased to be illuminated by how much more he should have spent on Villa's Player transfer and more importantly wages above and beyond what has already been spent.
E.g. Heskey cost 3.5m in transfer and c£10m in wages. Given similar and c12m in wages.
E.g. CNZ cost 9.5m and will also cost £12-15m in wages.
And how this could be financed unless you allude that Lerner should have spent more and more. £100m more? £200m more? £300m more.
We all know what he did spend was oft spent unwisely but how much more should he spend.
It's his business that is in jeopardy and our club that is being progressively destroyed by him.
I can see no reason why supporters would care if he had to spend all his money getting us out of this mess. He has been a dreadful owner.
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Then can he reply to my request with some finance based facts as Lerner having plenty of money (having spent 200m+ on our hobby) and I will be pleased to be illuminated by how much more he should have spent on Villa's Player transfer and more importantly wages above and beyond what has already been spent.
E.g. Heskey cost 3.5m in transfer and c£10m in wages. Given similar and c12m in wages.
E.g. CNZ cost 9.5m and will also cost £12-15m in wages.
And how this could be financed unless you allude that Lerner should have spent more and more. £100m more? £200m more? £300m more.
We all know what he did spend was oft spent unwisely but how much more should he spend.
It's his business that is in jeopardy and our club that is being progressively destroyed by him.
I can see no reason why supporters would care if he had to spend all his money getting us out of this mess. He has been a dreadful owner.
I'm sure they wouldn't.
But as he's not going to do that, what's the point of bringing it up?
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Then can he reply to my request with some finance based facts as Lerner having plenty of money (having spent 200m+ on our hobby) and I will be pleased to be illuminated by how much more he should have spent on Villa's Player transfer and more importantly wages above and beyond what has already been spent.
E.g. Heskey cost 3.5m in transfer and c£10m in wages. Given similar and c12m in wages.
E.g. CNZ cost 9.5m and will also cost £12-15m in wages.
And how this could be financed unless you allude that Lerner should have spent more and more. £100m more? £200m more? £300m more.
We all know what he did spend was oft spent unwisely but how much more should he spend.
It's his business that is in jeopardy and our club that is being progressively destroyed by him.
I can see no reason why supporters would care if he had to spend all his money getting us out of this mess. He has been a dreadful owner.
I'm sure they wouldn't.
But as he's not going to do that, what's the point of bringing it up?
I didn't bring anything up but was replying to an earlier post.
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Then can he reply to my request with some finance based facts as Lerner having plenty of money (having spent 200m+ on our hobby) and I will be pleased to be illuminated by how much more he should have spent on Villa's Player transfer and more importantly wages above and beyond what has already been spent.
E.g. Heskey cost 3.5m in transfer and c£10m in wages. Given similar and c12m in wages.
E.g. CNZ cost 9.5m and will also cost £12-15m in wages.
And how this could be financed unless you allude that Lerner should have spent more and more. £100m more? £200m more? £300m more.
We all know what he did spend was oft spent unwisely but how much more should he spend.
Lerner didn't need to keep spending at his initial rate, but neither did he need to slam the breaks on in such a sudden and destructive fashion.
To go from being fairly aggressive in the transfer market such that we could get players of the quality Milner out of Newcastle we have been reduced to buying second rate players some of whom would struggle to make an impact in the second division let alone the premier league.
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Some things get confused with when we took on Houllier. That was the first time you knew they were out of their depth.
As I recall when Houllier was appointed, I am sure General Krulak said something along the lines of deliberately not going after someone already in a job as that automatically made their loyalties and commitment to the cause suspect. An admirably Corinthian policy but not ideal for running a football club in the 21st Century.
Not sure that was Corinthian or less hassle policy. They would have done well to recall that our three most successful managers since Sir Ron Taylor, Atkinson and Little were poached from other clubs.
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Some things get confused with when we took on Houllier. That was the first time you knew they were out of their depth.
As I recall when Houllier was appointed, I am sure General Krulak said something along the lines of deliberately not going after someone already in a job as that automatically made their loyalties and commitment to the cause suspect. An admirably Corinthian policy but not ideal for running a football club in the 21st Century.
Not sure that was Corinthian or less hassle policy. They would have done well to recall that our three most successful managers since Sir Ron Taylor, Atkinson and Little were poached from other clubs.
Probably more to do with not wanting to pay compensation.
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Some things get confused with when we took on Houllier. That was the first time you knew they were out of their depth.
As I recall when Houllier was appointed, I am sure General Krulak said something along the lines of deliberately not going after someone already in a job as that automatically made their loyalties and commitment to the cause suspect. An admirably Corinthian policy but not ideal for running a football club in the 21st Century.
Not sure that was Corinthian or less hassle policy. They would have done well to recall that our three most successful managers since Sir Ron Taylor, Atkinson and Little were poached from other clubs.
Probably more to do with not wanting to pay compensation.
Or not, bearing in mind the next two appointments.
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Some things get confused with when we took on Houllier. That was the first time you knew they were out of their depth.
As I recall when Houllier was appointed, I am sure General Krulak said something along the lines of deliberately not going after someone already in a job as that automatically made their loyalties and commitment to the cause suspect. An admirably Corinthian policy but not ideal for running a football club in the 21st Century.
Not sure that was Corinthian or less hassle policy. They would have done well to recall that our three most successful managers since Sir Ron Taylor, Atkinson and Little were poached from other clubs.
Probably more to do with not wanting to pay compensation.
Or not, bearing in mind the next two appointments.
'
Still saved a bit of money though, and that's what it's all about since O'Neill walked.
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Doug was a lover of saving money more than anybody.
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Doug was a lover of saving money more than anybody.
He was but this mess wasn't created by his austerity.
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Or its not. As Dave just demonstrated.
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Some things get confused with when we took on Houllier. That was the first time you knew they were out of their depth.
As I recall when Houllier was appointed, I am sure General Krulak said something along the lines of deliberately not going after someone already in a job as that automatically made their loyalties and commitment to the cause suspect. An admirably Corinthian policy but not ideal for running a football club in the 21st Century.
Not sure that was Corinthian or less hassle policy. They would have done well to recall that our three most successful managers since Sir Ron Taylor, Atkinson and Little were poached from other clubs.
Probably more to do with not wanting to pay compensation.
Or not, bearing in mind the next two appointments.
'
Still saved a bit of money though, and that's what it's all about since O'Neill walked.
If that's what it's all about how come they didn't do it the next twice?
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Doug was a lover of saving money more than anybody.
He was but this mess wasn't created by his austerity.
No, he created his own mess, which was worse but you're right, this is not about him.
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Doug was a lover of saving money more than anybody.
He was but this mess wasn't created by his austerity.
No, he created his own mess, which was worse but you're right, this is not about him.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this one because in my opinion nothing Ellis did to the Villa was as bad as what Lerner has done to us over the last 6 seasons.
This has been done to death, so why you're bringing up Ellis again is beyond me.
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Doug was a lover of saving money more than anybody.
He was but this mess wasn't created by his austerity.
No, he created his own mess, which was worse but you're right, this is not about him.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this one because in my opinion nothing Ellis did to the Villa was as bad as what Lerner has done to us over the last 6 seasons.
This has been done to death, so why you're bringing up Ellis again is beyond me.
Probably to annoy you.
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Some things get confused with when we took on Houllier. That was the first time you knew they were out of their depth.
As I recall when Houllier was appointed, I am sure General Krulak said something along the lines of deliberately not going after someone already in a job as that automatically made their loyalties and commitment to the cause suspect. An admirably Corinthian policy but not ideal for running a football club in the 21st Century.
Not sure that was Corinthian or less hassle policy. They would have done well to recall that our three most successful managers since Sir Ron Taylor, Atkinson and Little were poached from other clubs.
Probably more to do with not wanting to pay compensation.
Or not, bearing in mind the next two appointments.
'
Still saved a bit of money though, and that's what it's all about since O'Neill walked.
If that's what it's all about how come they didn't do it the next twice?
I don't know, why don't you ask them? we've spent the last 6 years looking at ways to hack away at our spending though, unless you missed all that?
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Doug was a lover of saving money more than anybody.
He was but this mess wasn't created by his austerity.
No, he created his own mess, which was worse but you're right, this is not about him.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this one because in my opinion nothing Ellis did to the Villa was as bad as what Lerner has done to us over the last 6 seasons.
This has been done to death, so why you're bringing up Ellis again is beyond me.
Probably to annoy you.
Well it hasn't. I love a good argument.
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Some things get confused with when we took on Houllier. That was the first time you knew they were out of their depth.
As I recall when Houllier was appointed, I am sure General Krulak said something along the lines of deliberately not going after someone already in a job as that automatically made their loyalties and commitment to the cause suspect. An admirably Corinthian policy but not ideal for running a football club in the 21st Century.
Not sure that was Corinthian or less hassle policy. They would have done well to recall that our three most successful managers since Sir Ron Taylor, Atkinson and Little were poached from other clubs.
Probably more to do with not wanting to pay compensation.
Or not, bearing in mind the next two appointments.
'
Still saved a bit of money though, and that's what it's all about since O'Neill walked.
If that's what it's all about how come they didn't do it the next twice?
I don't know, why don't you ask them? we've spent the last 6 years looking at ways to hack away at our spending though, unless you missed all that?
The main reason I'm not going to ask them is because I don't think it's true, as evinced by the fact that they then did completely the opposite, twice.
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And we just did it again with Garde. More money saving.
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Is there any point in asking for a McLeish/Lambert explanation, or five lots of compensation?
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Is there any point in asking for a McLeish/Lambert explanation, or five lots of compensation?
Hollier was ideal for Lerner. Out of work and no compensation. Fits in well with his new austerity plan which he's carried on since.
Why you being so touchy about it?
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Is there any point in asking for a McLeish/Lambert explanation, or five lots of compensation?
Hollier was ideal for Lerner. Out of work and no compensation. Fits in well with his new austerity plan which he's carried on since.
Why you being so touchy about it?
Houllier came in because we were left without a manager on the eve of the new season and it was ideal.
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Houllier wasn't out of work. He wasn't a manager but was working for the French FA or something similar.
And I am guessing that Dave is getting "touchy" because you turn every thread into an exercise in you being shouty about Lerner and, regardless of any evidence to prove your assertion wrong, you carry on stamping your feet and blaming everything from the massacre in Paris to El Nino on Lerner being a tight arse.
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Is there any point in asking for a McLeish/Lambert explanation, or five lots of compensation?
Hollier was ideal for Lerner. Out of work and no compensation. Fits in well with his new austerity plan which he's carried on since.
Why you being so touchy about it?
Call me mad if you like, but when I disagree with something I'll often say so. Now, again. How does this "out of work manager is all part of the plan" theory of yours square against the next two managers appointed and the five lots of compensation paid out?
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Is there any point in asking for a McLeish/Lambert explanation, or five lots of compensation?
Hollier was ideal for Lerner. Out of work and no compensation. Fits in well with his new austerity plan which he's carried on since.
Why you being so touchy about it?
Call me mad if you like, but when I disagree with something I'll often say so. Now, again. How does this "out of work manager is all part of the plan" theory of yours square against the next two managers appointed and the five lots of compensation paid out?
well we'll never know, Dave (unless you've got a hotline to the club), but in my opinion we went for the cheapest option at the time. I mean it's not like we've done things on the cheap ever since though is it?
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Is there any point in asking for a McLeish/Lambert explanation, or five lots of compensation?
Hollier was ideal for Lerner. Out of work and no compensation. Fits in well with his new austerity plan which he's carried on since.
Why you being so touchy about it?
Call me mad if you like, but when I disagree with something I'll often say so. Now, again. How does this "out of work manager is all part of the plan" theory of yours square against the next two managers appointed and the five lots of compensation paid out?
well we'll never know, Dave (unless you've got a hotline to the club), but in my opinion we went for the cheapest option at the time. I mean it's not like we've done things on the cheap ever since though is it?
Maybe you could ask them yourself, if you attend the Trust AGM. I would imagine that would be a more effective way of getting your views heard than shouting in a car park.
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Is there any point in asking for a McLeish/Lambert explanation, or five lots of compensation?
Hollier was ideal for Lerner. Out of work and no compensation. Fits in well with his new austerity plan which he's carried on since.
Why you being so touchy about it?
Call me mad if you like, but when I disagree with something I'll often say so. Now, again. How does this "out of work manager is all part of the plan" theory of yours square against the next two managers appointed and the five lots of compensation paid out?
well we'll never know, Dave (unless you've got a hotline to the club), but in my opinion we went for the cheapest option at the time. I mean it's not like we've done things on the cheap ever since though is it?
Christ sake, you're like a stuck record.
-
Is there any point in asking for a McLeish/Lambert explanation, or five lots of compensation?
Hollier was ideal for Lerner. Out of work and no compensation. Fits in well with his new austerity plan which he's carried on since.
Why you being so touchy about it?
Call me mad if you like, but when I disagree with something I'll often say so. Now, again. How does this "out of work manager is all part of the plan" theory of yours square against the next two managers appointed and the five lots of compensation paid out?
well we'll never know, Dave (unless you've got a hotline to the club), but in my opinion we went for the cheapest option at the time. I mean it's not like we've done things on the cheap ever since though is it?
Maybe you could ask them yourself, if you attend the Trust AGM. I would imagine that would be a more effective way of getting your views heard than shouting in a car park.
'
Yes Dave, I'll be at the Trust AGM as well. See you there.
-
Is there any point in asking for a McLeish/Lambert explanation, or five lots of compensation?
Hollier was ideal for Lerner. Out of work and no compensation. Fits in well with his new austerity plan which he's carried on since.
Why you being so touchy about it?
Call me mad if you like, but when I disagree with something I'll often say so. Now, again. How does this "out of work manager is all part of the plan" theory of yours square against the next two managers appointed and the five lots of compensation paid out?
well we'll never know, Dave (unless you've got a hotline to the club), but in my opinion we went for the cheapest option at the time. I mean it's not like we've done things on the cheap ever since though is it?
Christ sake, you're like a stuck record.
I'm sure Dave can speak for himself.
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Is there any point in asking for a McLeish/Lambert explanation, or five lots of compensation?
Hollier was ideal for Lerner. Out of work and no compensation. Fits in well with his new austerity plan which he's carried on since.
Why you being so touchy about it?
Call me mad if you like, but when I disagree with something I'll often say so. Now, again. How does this "out of work manager is all part of the plan" theory of yours square against the next two managers appointed and the five lots of compensation paid out?
well we'll never know, Dave (unless you've got a hotline to the club), but in my opinion we went for the cheapest option at the time. I mean it's not like we've done things on the cheap ever since though is it?
Maybe you could ask them yourself, if you attend the Trust AGM. I would imagine that would be a more effective way of getting your views heard than shouting in a car park.
'
Yes Dave, I'll be at the Trust AGM as well. See you there.
If, of course, I'm in attendance.
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I'll keep an eye out for you.
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I shall certainly keep an eye out for you SH. If you can PM me your name I will ensure I say hello before we start.
I have also read that back. It isn't meant to be threatening as it seems! I will genuinely shake your hand and have a chat upon your arrival.
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I shall certainly keep an eye out for you SH. If you can PM me your name I will ensure I say hello before we start.
I have also read that back. It isn't meant to be threatening as it seems! I will genuinely shake your hand and have a chat upon your arrival.
No problem.
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Christ sake, you're like a stuck record.
Nothing wrong with consistency!
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Doug was a lover of saving money more than anybody.
He was but this mess wasn't created by his austerity.
No, he created his own mess, which was worse but you're right, this is not about him.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this one because in my opinion nothing Ellis did to the Villa was as bad as what Lerner has done to us over the last 6 seasons.
This has been done to death, so why you're bringing up Ellis again is beyond me.
Sorry to drag this up again, but how many years passed between 1982 and 1987?
And in what state was the team in when each of our last two owners took over?
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Doug was a lover of saving money more than anybody.
He was but this mess wasn't created by his austerity.
No, he created his own mess, which was worse but you're right, this is not about him.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this one because in my opinion nothing Ellis did to the Villa was as bad as what Lerner has done to us over the last 6 seasons.
This has been done to death, so why you're bringing up Ellis again is beyond me.
Sorry to drag this up again, but how many years passed between 1982 and 1987?
And in what state was the team in when each of our last two owners took over?
Let's leave it there, eh?
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Fair enough, I'd read the post earlier but hadn't the time to reply.
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I can see a pitch invasion and sit down protest at the Leicester Game for 10 minutes before half time being effective.
Then fans can empty the ground.
Remember the publicity at the Cup game last season against WBA when fans went on the pitch.
The BBC and media went ballistic.
Extreme, but look at the situation we are in...
What a bloody stupid suggestion...we might get thrown out of the Premier League
Oh hang on ....
Scrub that !!!!
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If the fans had gone onto the pitch at the Burnley game last season, we were going to be docked three points. That would have saved us going through all the crap of this season.
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Doug was a lover of saving money more than anybody.
He was but this mess wasn't created by his austerity.
No, he created his own mess, which was worse but you're right, this is not about him.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this one because in my opinion nothing Ellis did to the Villa was as bad as what Lerner has done to us over the last 6 seasons.
This has been done to death, so why you're bringing up Ellis again is beyond me.
Sorry to drag this up again, but how many years passed between 1982 and 1987?
And in what state was the team in when each of our last two owners took over?
Let's leave it there, eh?
and another thing I don't and never did like Ellis, but lerner has used him as a roll model and then some, just saying like.
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and another thing I don't and never did like Ellis, but lerner has used him as a roll model and then some, just saying like.
He's actually just about the exact opposite.
-
Doug was a lover of saving money more than anybody.
He was but this mess wasn't created by his austerity.
No, he created his own mess, which was worse but you're right, this is not about him.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this one because in my opinion nothing Ellis did to the Villa was as bad as what Lerner has done to us over the last 6 seasons.
This has been done to death, so why you're bringing up Ellis again is beyond me.
Sorry to drag this up again, but how many years passed between 1982 and 1987?
And in what state was the team in when each of our last two owners took over?
Let's leave it there, eh?
and another thing I don't and never did like Ellis, but lerner has used him as a roll model and then some, just saying like.
Lerner has just got a cob on.
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and another thing I don't and never did like Ellis, but lerner has used him as a roll model and then some, just saying like.
He's actually just about the exact opposite.
that's your opinion love
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and another thing I don't and never did like Ellis, but lerner has used him as a roll model and then some, just saying like.
He's actually just about the exact opposite.
that's your opinion love
No, it's FACT!!!
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Doug was barm-y though.
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Some say he earned his crust.
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and another thing I don't and never did like Ellis, but lerner has used him as a roll model and then some, just saying like.
He's actually just about the exact opposite.
that's your opinion love
2 quick questions.
1. How much money did Doug put into or take out of the club during his time as owner?
2. How much money has Lerner put into or taken out of the club as owner?
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and another thing I don't and never did like Ellis, but lerner has used him as a roll model and then some, just saying like.
He's actually just about the exact opposite.
that's your opinion love
2 quick questions.
1. How much money did Doug put into or take out of the club during his time as owner?
2. How much money has Lerner put into or taken out of the club as owner?
That is the crux of the matter.
Doug was in it for Doug, and never missed a single trick in milking the club for his own benefit. The facts and figures that prove this have been posted ad nauseam over the years.
Randy is the complete opposite. He has sunk a fortune into the club which he will never recover.
This is an entirely separate question from the effects of the leadership of both men, but if we cannot make this basic distinction then there is no basis for rational debate and we are of sounding like children stamping their feet in the playground.
As for Dave Woodhall being a defender of RL and the board, he was one of the very few counseling caution when the change of ownership happened.
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Ah well, just spent two hours reading all thirty pages of posts on this topic , my own stupid fault for not coming on site more often . I'm really looking forward to this AGM like I used to look forward to the old Doug Ellis ones when several hundred would turn up vent their spleen but Doug stayed on
regardless - at least we felt better for it. Please don't let us down Mr Fox by not showing . As for protests I'm going to do something really radical I'm going to get behind the team like I always do and even try to get to more away games between now and the season's end as It's our / my club and the one thing we've still got is a fantastic set of fans - what better way to show the football world , potential owners or players that we are and can be something special again. After the Palace game we'll only be looking for another nine wins : )
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Then can he reply to my request with some finance based facts as Lerner having plenty of money (having spent 200m+ on our hobby) and I will be pleased to be illuminated by how much more he should have spent on Villa's Player transfer and more importantly wages above and beyond what has already been spent.
E.g. Heskey cost 3.5m in transfer and c£10m in wages. Given similar and c12m in wages.
E.g. CNZ cost 9.5m and will also cost £12-15m in wages.
And how this could be financed unless you allude that Lerner should have spent more and more. £100m more? £200m more? £300m more.
We all know what he did spend was oft spent unwisely but how much more should he spend.
It's his business that is in jeopardy and our club that is being progressively destroyed by him.
I can see no reason why supporters would care if he had to spend all his money getting us out of this mess. He has been a dreadful owner.
He spent Top3 money to get us to Top6 at which point he moderated his outlay with a view to spending top half money to finish in the top 8-10 positions. This included 2 of the aforementioned signings intermingled with the club record signing. Unfortunately the first 2 management appointments post O'Neill were respectively:
a) misjudged and foolish though there were mitigating circumstances.
b) wrong on every level.
Subsequently he moderated the outlay further but still allowed an net outlay of 20m plus to the new manager.
So with that in mind can you answer my question with some specifics? If you can't don't bother respond.
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Then can he reply to my request with some finance based facts as Lerner having plenty of money (having spent 200m+ on our hobby) and I will be pleased to be illuminated by how much more he should have spent on Villa's Player transfer and more importantly wages above and beyond what has already been spent.
E.g. Heskey cost 3.5m in transfer and c£10m in wages. Given similar and c12m in wages.
E.g. CNZ cost 9.5m and will also cost £12-15m in wages.
And how this could be financed unless you allude that Lerner should have spent more and more. £100m more? £200m more? £300m more.
We all know what he did spend was oft spent unwisely but how much more should he spend.
Lerner didn't need to keep spending at his initial rate, but neither did he need to slam the breaks on in such a sudden and destructive fashion.
To go from being fairly aggressive in the transfer market such that we could get players of the quality Milner out of Newcastle we have been reduced to buying second rate players some of whom would struggle to make an impact in the second division let alone the premier league.
I refer the honourable H&V poster to the reply I gave to hvfa1 some moments ago.
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Is this Crystal Palace protest still happening, only I normally see this stuff all over my Facebook and Twitter feeds but I've not seen owt about this since the original FB post. (I am not "friends" with the original poster so I suppose there could be a huge discussion on his page I suppose).
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Is this Crystal Palace protest still happening, only I normally see this stuff all over my Facebook and Twitter feeds but I've not seen owt about this since the original FB post. (I am not "friends" with the original poster so I suppose there could be a huge discussion on his page I suppose).
Saunders_Heroes is your contact on here for that stuff. He's always going on about it.
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Is this Crystal Palace protest still happening, only I normally see this stuff all over my Facebook and Twitter feeds but I've not seen owt about this since the original FB post. (I am not "friends" with the original poster so I suppose there could be a huge discussion on his page I suppose).
It was reported in the press yesterday that it would be the Leicester match - I feel neither may occur...
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Well, my black armband arrived from ebay this morning and I will be wearing it to every game at Villa Park until Learner goes.
Just my own little protest for want of a better word.
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Then can he reply to my request with some finance based facts as Lerner having plenty of money (having spent 200m+ on our hobby) and I will be pleased to be illuminated by how much more he should have spent on Villa's Player transfer and more importantly wages above and beyond what has already been spent.
E.g. Heskey cost 3.5m in transfer and c£10m in wages. Given similar and c12m in wages.
E.g. CNZ cost 9.5m and will also cost £12-15m in wages.
And how this could be financed unless you allude that Lerner should have spent more and more. £100m more? £200m more? £300m more.
We all know what he did spend was oft spent unwisely but how much more should he spend.
It's his business that is in jeopardy and our club that is being progressively destroyed by him.
I can see no reason why supporters would care if he had to spend all his money getting us out of this mess. He has been a dreadful owner.
He spent Top3 money to get us to Top6 at which point he moderated his outlay with a view to spending top half money to finish in the top 8-10 positions. This included 2 of the aforementioned signings intermingled with the club record signing. Unfortunately the first 2 management appointments post O'Neill were respectively:
a) misjudged and foolish though there were mitigating circumstances.
b) wrong on every level.
Subsequently he moderated the outlay further but still allowed an net outlay of 20m plus to the new manager.
So with that in mind can you answer my question with some specifics? If you can't don't bother respond.
I was beginning to wonder what your question was, then I went back in the thread and saw it wasn't even asked towards me. If you are going to play the smart arse, you need to have a good memory. This also applies to Villa in Davemark.
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Is this Crystal Palace protest still happening, only I normally see this stuff all over my Facebook and Twitter feeds but I've not seen owt about this since the original FB post. (I am not "friends" with the original poster so I suppose there could be a huge discussion on his page I suppose).
Saunders_Heroes is your contact on here for that stuff. He's always going on about it.
Is he one of your acolytes?
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Then can he reply to my request with some finance based facts as Lerner having plenty of money (having spent 200m+ on our hobby) and I will be pleased to be illuminated by how much more he should have spent on Villa's Player transfer and more importantly wages above and beyond what has already been spent.
E.g. Heskey cost 3.5m in transfer and c£10m in wages. Given similar and c12m in wages.
E.g. CNZ cost 9.5m and will also cost £12-15m in wages.
And how this could be financed unless you allude that Lerner should have spent more and more. £100m more? £200m more? £300m more.
We all know what he did spend was oft spent unwisely but how much more should he spend.
It's his business that is in jeopardy and our club that is being progressively destroyed by him.
I can see no reason why supporters would care if he had to spend all his money getting us out of this mess. He has been a dreadful owner.
He spent Top3 money to get us to Top6 at which point he moderated his outlay with a view to spending top half money to finish in the top 8-10 positions. This included 2 of the aforementioned signings intermingled with the club record signing. Unfortunately the first 2 management appointments post O'Neill were respectively:
a) misjudged and foolish though there were mitigating circumstances.
b) wrong on every level.
Subsequently he moderated the outlay further but still allowed an net outlay of 20m plus to the new manager.
So with that in mind can you answer my question with some specifics? If you can't don't bother respond.
I was beginning to wonder what your question was, then I went back in the thread and saw it wasn't even asked towards me. If you are going to play the smart arse, you need to have a good memory. This also applies to Villa in Davemark.
Can you remember how many times you've been banned from here now Troy? We've lost count.
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I'm struggling cobbler. What do you reckon, huh?
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I'm struggling cobber. What do you reckon, huh?
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Didn't mean to call you cobbler. It's a funny keyboard down here, huh!
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I reckon you should try a bit harder next time. Bye.
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Is Villa in Davemark a mod?
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No doubt we'll see you again soon. Now, back on topic.
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Now, back on topic.
Does anyone think this sort of protest will have any effect?
(http://i65.tinypic.com/1znmq7a.jpg)
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Now, back on topic.
Does anyone think this sort of protest will have any effect?
(http://i65.tinypic.com/1znmq7a.jpg)
Is that Randy's new For Sale board?
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Now, back on topic.
Does anyone think this sort of protest will have any effect?
(http://i65.tinypic.com/1znmq7a.jpg)
Of course it won't.
Don't get me wrong, I am as fucked off with Lerner as the next man, but I don't really see how this "Lerner Out" thing is meant to work.
If there isn't a buyer, what is he meant to do? Magic one up? Drop another 50m off the price? Just like that?
Sell to the first shyster who comes along?
Randy has been a disaster, but I'd still rather we kept him than have him sell up to some Hong Kong hairdresser type.
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Now, back on topic.
Does anyone think this sort of protest will have any effect?
(http://i65.tinypic.com/1znmq7a.jpg)
Of course it won't.
Don't get me wrong, I am as fucked off with Lerner as the next man, but I don't really see how this "Lerner Out" thing is meant to work.
If there isn't a buyer, what is he meant to do? Magic one up? Drop another 50m off the price? Just like that?
Sell to the first shyster who comes along?
Randy has been a disaster, but I'd still rather we kept him than have him sell up to some Hong Kong hairdresser type.
I would rather we sarcastically thank and applaud him for all he has done. Play on the "Bright Future" promise and act like we've achieved it.
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Now, back on topic.
Does anyone think this sort of protest will have any effect?
(http://i65.tinypic.com/1znmq7a.jpg)
Randy will never hear about it. It will make us look a bit more like twats to the press and other clubs fans.
But if some long suffering fans gets a wee bit of joy from making a Lerner Out banner then more power to them. At least they can still be arsed to show up. The club should thank them.
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What is the Lerner Out supposed to achieve and how is it to achieve it?
Is it supposed to make him open his chequebook and throw more money at the club? If that is the hope how does attacking him improve those chances?
If the objective is to make him drop the asking price of the club and it succeeds that opens the gates of hell to every chicken farmer, hairdresser, con man, carpetbagger and shyster on the planet. If you want a perfect parallel of the destiny of a legendary giant of the city brought down you have no further to look than Longbridge.
Slagging off Randy Lerner endlessly is like going in your garden and raging at the rain.
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Now, back on topic.
Does anyone think this sort of protest will have any effect?
(http://i65.tinypic.com/1znmq7a.jpg)
Nice graphics.
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What is the Lerner Out supposed to achieve and how is it to achieve it?
Is it supposed to make him open his chequebook and throw more money at the club? If that is the hope how does attacking him improve those chances?
If the objective is to make him drop the asking price of the club and it succeeds that opens the gates of hell to every chicken farmer, hairdresser, con man, carpetbagger and shyster on the planet. If you want a perfect parallel of the destiny of a legendary giant of the city brought down you have no further to look than Longbridge.
Slagging off Randy Lerner endlessly is like going in your garden and raging at the rain.
This.
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What is the Lerner Out supposed to achieve and how is it to achieve it?
Is it supposed to make him open his chequebook and throw more money at the club? If that is the hope how does attacking him improve those chances?
If the objective is to make him drop the asking price of the club and it succeeds that opens the gates of hell to every chicken farmer, hairdresser, con man, carpetbagger and shyster on the planet. If you want a perfect parallel of the destiny of a legendary giant of the city brought down you have no further to look than Longbridge.
Slagging off Randy Lerner endlessly is like going in your garden and raging at the rain.
Wisdom.
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What is the Lerner Out supposed to achieve and how is it to achieve it?
Is it supposed to make him open his chequebook and throw more money at the club? If that is the hope how does attacking him improve those chances?
If the objective is to make him drop the asking price of the club and it succeeds that opens the gates of hell to every chicken farmer, hairdresser, con man, carpetbagger and shyster on the planet. If you want a perfect parallel of the destiny of a legendary giant of the city brought down you have no further to look than Longbridge.
Slagging off Randy Lerner endlessly is like going in your garden and raging at the rain.
Of course a flag isn't going to get rid of Lerner, do you honestly thing people are that daft to suggest that? What it might do though is draw people's attention to the shitfest our club has turned into. It also may remind others than Villa fans still have a bit of pride in the club unlike the muppets that run it. Good luck to them.
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Again, since when has a protest had to achieve a clearly defined and achievable goal? They almost never, ever do that, whether it's political or in football.
It's as much about the gesture as it is about catharsis for those involved. A lot of fans are angry and frustrated and it's their way of venting.
What protests can do is unite people, but as this thread aptly demonstrates, Villa fans are rarely united unless the team is successful.
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Now, back on topic.
Does anyone think this sort of protest will have any effect?
(http://i65.tinypic.com/1znmq7a.jpg)
none whatsover unfortunately
we want him gone, lerner wants to be gone, no one wants to buy us
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Now, back on topic.
Does anyone think this sort of protest will have any effect?
(http://i65.tinypic.com/1znmq7a.jpg)
Being brutally honest? No.
We aren't that important.
Oh and as has been oft sited Lerner wants to sell so saying we want him out is pointless.
So it looks like 'We're angry, and we agree with you' in the same sentence.
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If the objective is to make him drop the asking price of the club and it succeeds that opens the gates of hell to every chicken farmer, hairdresser, con man, carpetbagger and shyster on the planet.
Erm..that's what we've got currently. How is it any worse? I don't think Lerner is a step up from Ellis but Ellis was diabolical anyway. What have we lost? Yes its a risk but loads of clubs have had a fair few awful owners before they got a decent one. Man City, Chelsea, Man United anyone?
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Charlton Fans are kicking off with protests aimed at their owners, time for the Villa fans to do the same.
We are a mess, time to demonstrate regardless ..
I suppose we could blockade the players car park. That might get some attention if we kept it up til midnight.
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Charlton Fans are kicking off with protests aimed at their owners, time for the Villa fans to do the same.
We are a mess, time to demonstrate regardless ..
I suppose we could blockade the players car park. That might get some attention if we kept it up til midnight.
You'd probably manage around ten minutes after the first person wanted to leave the car park before the police moved you on.
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Now, back on topic.
Does anyone think this sort of protest will have any effect?
(http://i65.tinypic.com/1znmq7a.jpg)
Nice graphics.
Yeah I like it, looks good. Will it achieve anything? No. But a banner with "Villa for the Cup" doesn't mean we'll win the cup either. It's just an expression of what we'd like to see happen, and it's well designed, so fair play.
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What is the Lerner Out supposed to achieve and how is it to achieve it?
Is it supposed to make him open his chequebook and throw more money at the club? If that is the hope how does attacking him improve those chances?
If the objective is to make him drop the asking price of the club and it succeeds that opens the gates of hell to every chicken farmer, hairdresser, con man, carpetbagger and shyster on the planet. If you want a perfect parallel of the destiny of a legendary giant of the city brought down you have no further to look than Longbridge.
Slagging off Randy Lerner endlessly is like going in your garden and raging at the rain.
He could be a good owner for us if he wanted to be , but not attacking him for the last 5 years hasn't worked in terms of getting him to run the club properly.
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What is the Lerner Out supposed to achieve and how is it to achieve it?
Is it supposed to make him open his chequebook and throw more money at the club? If that is the hope how does attacking him improve those chances?
If the objective is to make him drop the asking price of the club and it succeeds that opens the gates of hell to every chicken farmer, hairdresser, con man, carpetbagger and shyster on the planet. If you want a perfect parallel of the destiny of a legendary giant of the city brought down you have no further to look than Longbridge.
Slagging off Randy Lerner endlessly is like going in your garden and raging at the rain.
He could be a good owner for us if he wanted to be
I don't see it. He was terrible at Cleveland Brown's and he's been terrible for Villa. As far as owning a sports club is concerned he's got the opposite of the midas touch.
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Of course a flag isn't going to get rid of Lerner, do you honestly thing people are that daft to suggest that? What it might do though is draw people's attention to the shitfest our club has turned into. It also may remind others than Villa fans still have a bit of pride in the club unlike the muppets that run it. Good luck to them.
This is pretty much my take on it too. If we're doomed then at the very least don't be doomed with a whimper.
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Now, back on topic.
Does anyone think this sort of protest will have any effect?
(http://i65.tinypic.com/1znmq7a.jpg)
Nice graphics.
Yeah I like it, looks good. Will it achieve anything? No. But a banner with "Villa for the Cup" doesn't mean we'll win the cup either. It's just an expression of what we'd like to see happen, and it's well designed, so fair play.
Well said.
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It's not ideal, I know, but maybe the replay is the time to vote with our feet.
I know it divides opinion, obviously, but as it doesn't count on people's ST's, maybe this is the one.
To be honest, if we played in front of 40'000, we'd still be hopelessly shite and as a side issue, there are players out there cheating a living from the football club, and don't deserve any support.
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We played in front of 40,000 fans and couldn't beat a 4th division side in Bradford. The support doesn't matter a jot to these players. Right now I suspect we are nothing more than a bad part of their life that they can't wait to be rid of. None of them care, we have a right set of losers and mercenaries at the club, hence why we have 8 pts in January and can't beat a team one step up from being part time footballers.
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and another thing I don't and never did like Ellis, but lerner has used him as a roll model and then some, just saying like.
He's actually just about the exact opposite.
that's your opinion love
2 quick questions.
1. How much money did Doug put into or take out of the club during his time as owner?
2. How much money has Lerner put into or taken out of the club as owner?
Lerner has left us with a lost half decade (soon to be lost decade?) and arguably the worst side in our history. In the fourteen years before Lerner showed up we were competitive in the top flight and when we sold top players like Yorke reinvested the money on quality players.
Milner replaced by Ireland, Downing and Young by N'Zogbia, Benteke by Gestede???
These are awful, awful times for villa and as football fans we need to recognise that and park all the whataboutery.
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I don't think you answered the questions that he asked.
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It's not ideal, I know, but maybe the replay is the time to vote with our feet.
I know it divides opinion, obviously, but as it doesn't count on people's ST's, maybe this is the one.
To be honest, if we played in front of 40'000, we'd still be hopelessly shite and as a side issue, there are players out there cheating a living from the football club, and don't deserve any support.
yes this is the game to boycott but there are fellow villains that just cant stay away. but we could possibly get under 20k for that game, which VP would look empty at that.
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If the objective is to make him drop the asking price of the club and it succeeds that opens the gates of hell to every chicken farmer, hairdresser, con man, carpetbagger and shyster on the planet.
Erm..that's what we've got currently. How is it any worse? I don't think Lerner is a step up from Ellis but Ellis was diabolical anyway. What have we lost? Yes its a risk but loads of clubs have had a fair few awful owners before they got a decent one. Man City, Chelsea, Man United anyone?
Yes, I agree. Man City, Chelsea and Man United all currently have awful owners.
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It's not ideal, I know, but maybe the replay is the time to vote with our feet.
I know it divides opinion, obviously, but as it doesn't count on people's ST's, maybe this is the one.
To be honest, if we played in front of 40'000, we'd still be hopelessly shite and as a side issue, there are players out there cheating a living from the football club, and don't deserve any support.
yes this is the game to boycott but there are fellow villains that just cant stay away. but we could possibly get under 20k for that game, which VP would look empty at that.
I know mate, and I'm not jumping up and down telling everyone not to go and what to do. I'd never do that.
I just think, IMO, if there is a game where fans could let Lerner, Fox and many of the players know how much contempt they're held in, then this is the one.
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I don't think you answered the questions that he asked.
Money is all relative. £50m now is a drop in the ocean compared to when Doug was here. All I would add is that during the PL years we have been largely a team competing for Europe. Yes there were some shit seasons but we recovered until those couple of seasons pre-MON. What we have now is 5-6 seasons of relegation and no hope of a recovery.
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and another thing I don't and never did like Ellis, but lerner has used him as a roll model and then some, just saying like.
He's actually just about the exact opposite.
that's your opinion love
2 quick questions.
1. How much money did Doug put into or take out of the club during his time as owner?
2. How much money has Lerner put into or taken out of the club as owner?
Lerner has left us with a lost half decade (soon to be lost decade?) and arguably the worst side in our history. In the fourteen years before Lerner showed up we were competitive in the top flight and when we sold top players like Yorke reinvested the money on quality players.
Milner replaced by Ireland, Downing and Young by N'Zogbia, Benteke by Gestede???
These are awful, awful times for villa and as football fans we need to recognise that and park all the whataboutery.
The point wasn't about Lerner being a good or poor owner, there's no debate to be had. The point was in response to the assertion that Ellis was Lerner's role model, which would imply that their motivations and actions would mirror each other, which they palpably don't.
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Fans not turning up is something sha would do
Turn up in our thousands and let your frustrations known
Black balloons from the Holte
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sha fans have been protesting for 141 years judging by their crowds.
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If footage of the fans 'questioning the integrity of the players' at Wycome today is seen by the club, I think there will be second thoughts of attending the AGM, by senior villa staff.
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If footage of the fans 'questioning the integrity of the players' at Wycome today is seen by the club, I think there will be second thoughts of attending the AGM, by senior villa staff.
There won't be. The Trust and it's membership are well thought of amongst the hierarchy.
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Protest : Tuesday night Vs Palace
19:00 - Mcgregor Statue - North Stand
22:00 - North Stand Outer Area
Well we have all just witnessed an embaressing 1-1 Draw away To Wycombe , yet another awful performance from our team.
This is where our club is heading if we as fans don't fight for the future of our club and fight now. The protest that is being organised for the Palace game is peaceful protest. The club is already in a state last thing we need is turning up and acting in the wrong manner.
Everyone of us wants our feeling and thoughts heard on Tuesday, so let's do it in the correct way. We as fans don't need any bad publicity, we have the most loyal and passionate fans in England let's not tarnish ourself's with ugly scenes.
We can get our points across as ONE. Loud chants, banners , flags etc . We don't need to punch , kick or spit at anyone or anything.
So hope to see a large crowd at this demo , let's start at getting our Villa Back!!!
#WEWANTOURVILLABACK # LERNER OUT!!!!!
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There won't be a big crowd in the ground, never mind at the protest. I predict hardly anyone will turn up to the protest and it will all be a bit embarrassing.
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There won't be a big crowd in the ground, never mind at the protest. I predict hardly anyone will turn up to the protest and it will all be a bit embarrassing.
They'll be over 30k there which is still bloody good considering...
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Serious question - short of one of them having a spare £150 million, how will 'we' get 'our' Villa back?
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There won't be a big crowd in the ground, never mind at the protest. I predict hardly anyone will turn up to the protest and it will all be a bit embarrassing.
They'll be over 30k there which is still bloody good considering...
Highly unlikely.
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There won't be a big crowd in the ground, never mind at the protest. I predict hardly anyone will turn up to the protest and it will all be a bit embarrassing.
They'll be over 30k there which is still bloody good considering...
Highly unlikely.
Season ticket holders feel obliged to turn up and they're counted even if they don't anyway.
I'd hate us to start staying away like those losers from Small Heath. It's the easy option.
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There will be a bigger crowd than any our neighbours have had in 40 years.
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Talked to someone that works in the TO yesterday and they expect it to be less than 30K.
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There will be a bigger crowd than any our neighbours have had in 40 years.
30, maybe.
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I think it will be about 28k-30k personally. Look at the online seating plan, it looks very sparse.
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Wycombe replay could rival our lowest crowd since the 80s or early 90s. Did we get a sub 20k crowd in one of the Carling cup games in recent years, it could easily be that.
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Wycombe replay could rival our lowest crowd since the 80s or early 90s. Did we get a sub 20k crowd in one of the Carling cup games in recent years, it could easily be that.
When's the replay? 19th? If so I wouldn't be able to make it.
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Wycombe replay could rival our lowest crowd since the 80s or early 90s. Did we get a sub 20k crowd in one of the Carling cup games in recent years, it could easily be that.
Tranmere? Wasn't it about 15,000? It will be about the same I'd imagine, especially as we'll have lost to Palace and Leicester.
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Just under 18K vs Orient last season.
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Cup games are one thing, but when fans stay away from league games you know something's up. I still think we'll get a tad over 30k.
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Wycombe replay could rival our lowest crowd since the 80s or early 90s. Did we get a sub 20k crowd in one of the Carling cup games in recent years, it could easily be that.
Tranmere? Wasn't it about 15,000? It will be about the same I'd imagine, especially as we'll have lost to Palace and Leicester.
Yep, just looked it up, 15,319.
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Cup games are one thing, but when fans stay away from league games you know something's up. I still think we'll get a tad over 30k.
We had 25,311 for Saints last season. Nearly every season we have one or two crap home attendance in the league. Even the first season under MON we went under 30K.
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In the mid/late nineties there was only one club in this region who hadn't had a sub-20,000 league gate for (I think) 100 games. It wasn't us.
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Cup games are one thing, but when fans stay away from league games you know something's up. I still think we'll get a tad over 30k.
We had 25,311 for Saints last season. Nearly every season we have one or two crap home attendance in the league. Even the first season under MON we went under 30K.
Fair enough.
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If footage of the fans 'questioning the integrity of the players' at Wycome today is seen by the club, I think there will be second thoughts of attending the AGM, by senior villa staff.
There won't be. The Trust and it's membership are well thought of amongst the hierarchy.
Only just seen this and feel I have to say I don't think anything of the kind will happen - I may vent my spleen during a match but I am a grown-up when it comes to dealing with people who may make a difference and I have seen nothing to suggest that all other attendees will not have the same attitude
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In the mid/late nineties there was only one club in this region who hadn't had a sub-20,000 league gate for (I think) 100 games. It wasn't us.
When you say region Dave, do you mean Midlands as a whole (i.e. East and West)? If that is the case was it Forest?
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If footage of the fans 'questioning the integrity of the players' at Wycome today is seen by the club, I think there will be second thoughts of attending the AGM, by senior villa staff.
There won't be. The Trust and it's membership are well thought of amongst the hierarchy.
Only just seen this and feel I have to say I don't think anything of the kind will happen - I may vent my spleen during a match but I am a grown-up when it comes to dealing with people who may make a difference and I have seen nothing to suggest that all other attendees will not have the same attitude
I hope that will happen, in the same way I hope every member realises that the Trust isn't a massively extremist, man the barricades type of organisation.
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If footage of the fans 'questioning the integrity of the players' at Wycome today is seen by the club, I think there will be second thoughts of attending the AGM, by senior villa staff.
There won't be. The Trust and it's membership are well thought of amongst the hierarchy.
Only just seen this and feel I have to say I don't think anything of the kind will happen - I may vent my spleen during a match but I am a grown-up when it comes to dealing with people who may make a difference and I have seen nothing to suggest that all other attendees will not have the same attitude
I hope that will happen, in the same way I hope every member realises that the Trust isn't a massively extremist, man the barricades type of organisation.
Extremist may not be a particularly appropriate word there Dave (but I know what you mean) I would man the barricades if it meant something would really change but I feel we have to plan realistically not just scream abuse - these people (Lerner, Fox et al) will not be at the Villa forever but we will be and I would rather be part of something positive.
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If footage of the fans 'questioning the integrity of the players' at Wycome today is seen by the club, I think there will be second thoughts of attending the AGM, by senior villa staff.
There won't be. The Trust and it's membership are well thought of amongst the hierarchy.
Only just seen this and feel I have to say I don't think anything of the kind will happen - I may vent my spleen during a match but I am a grown-up when it comes to dealing with people who may make a difference and I have seen nothing to suggest that all other attendees will not have the same attitude
I hope that will happen, in the same way I hope every member realises that the Trust isn't a massively extremist, man the barricades type of organisation.
Extremist may not be a particularly appropriate word there Dave (but I know what you mean) I would man the barricades if it meant something would really change but I feel we have to plan realistically not just scream abuse - these people (Lerner, Fox et al) will not be at the Villa forever but we will be and I would rather be part of something positive.
That's how I feel, and it was the same during the later Ellis years. We aren't going to get them to go until they want, there isn't going to be any radical changes in policy so all we can realistically do is try to get across to them what we think and gain whatever from them that we can.
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Serious question - short of one of them having a spare £150 million, how will 'we' get 'our' Villa back?
Oh come on. The fans crying out for their Villa back is exactly that. Its not a cry over the specifics of someone buying the club or players putting in a shift, or us having having better behind the scenes management, but we just want to be watching a half-decent Villa team. not the one gurgling around the plug hole that is now going to finally drop. The sentiment is one of pain, hurt, and desperation. It isn't a question that needs answering but more a heartfelt plea to be able to just go down and watch a Villa team again and enjoy supporting the Villa.
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Serious question - short of one of them having a spare £150 million, how will 'we' get 'our' Villa back?
Oh come on. The fans crying out for their Villa back is exactly that. Its not a cry over the specifics of someone buying the club or players putting in a shift, or us having having better behind the scenes management, but we just want to be watching a half-decent Villa team. not the one gurgling around the plug hole that is now going to finally drop. The sentiment is one of pain, hurt, and desperation. It isn't a question that needs answering but more a heartfelt plea to be able to just go down and watch a Villa team again and enjoy supporting the Villa.
Good answer.
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Serious question - short of one of them having a spare £150 million, how will 'we' get 'our' Villa back?
Oh come on. The fans crying out for their Villa back is exactly that. Its not a cry over the specifics of someone buying the club or players putting in a shift, or us having having better behind the scenes management, but we just want to be watching a half-decent Villa team. not the one gurgling around the plug hole that is now going to finally drop. The sentiment is one of pain, hurt, and desperation. It isn't a question that needs answering but more a heartfelt plea to be able to just go down and watch a Villa team again and enjoy supporting the Villa.
Good answer.
Seconded. Very good answer.
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So they're calling for some unspecified aim with an unknown way of getting it.
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Seconded Very good answer.
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So shut the feck up and put up with it then?
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No Do what we have done in the past. Do the pain, like all proper football fans are called on to do from time to time. And respect the club even if we can't respect the individuals.
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So shut the feck up and put up with it then?
I wouldn't put it like that. If people want to protest then let them protest. From what I've seen the organisers have insisted that the protest is intended to be peaceful. What are supporters if they haven't got a voice?
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The whole "we want our Villa back" is admittedly a metaphysic plea but a real one, an allusion to a an ideal. Should we never sing about "the greatest team the world has ever seen"?
Accepting any particular negative status quo while paying money to maintain it is perverse and calls for action on the part of those involved.
Otherwise we accept that we are helpless and have no impact on the situation (a parallel of today's political landscape) so I say everyone acts in their own way (as long as it is legal) and it is accepted as being in good faith even if we do not agree with it.
All these unwritten rules about how football fans are suppose to act are just bizarre.
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From what I've seen the organisers have insisted that the protest is intended to be peaceful.
They can intend it to be peaceful all they want, but I bet it won't be.
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From what I've seen the organisers have insisted that the protest is intended to be peaceful.
They can intend it to be peaceful all they want, but I bet it won't be.
What do you mean, are you expecting some kind of riot?
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From what I've seen the organisers have insisted that the protest is intended to be peaceful.
They can intend it to be peaceful all they want, but I bet it won't be.
What do you mean, are you expecting some kind of riot?
There is clearly the potential for some people to take things too far and for the police to get involved. I hope not because if that does happen it becomes the story rather the original intentions.
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From what I've seen the organisers have insisted that the protest is intended to be peaceful.
They can intend it to be peaceful all they want, but I bet it won't be.
What do you mean, are you expecting some kind of riot?
There is clearly the potential for some people to take things too far and for the police to get involved. I hope not because if that does happen it becomes the story rather the original intentions.
There is always the potential for people to take things too far whatever the circumstances - should the match be banned because there is a potential for disorder when 25,000 fans gather in one place? Of course not - not acting in case something negative might happen seems pretty extreme in itself - nobody would ever get out of bed...
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From what I've seen the organisers have insisted that the protest is intended to be peaceful.
They can intend it to be peaceful all they want, but I bet it won't be.
What do you mean, are you expecting some kind of riot?
There is clearly the potential for some people to take things too far and for the police to get involved. I hope not because if that does happen it becomes the story rather the original intentions.
There is always the potential for people to take things too far whatever the circumstances - should the match be banned because there is a potential for disorder when 25,000 fans gather in one place? Of course not - not acting in case something negative might happen seems pretty extreme in itself - nobody would ever get out of bed...
That's an obvious distortion of the point I made. I was answering the question about there being a riot not passing a view on whether people should do it or not. We all saw from the Baggies game last year, when a celebratory pitch invasion was reported as a return to the dark ages, that these things happen.
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From what I've seen the organisers have insisted that the protest is intended to be peaceful.
They can intend it to be peaceful all they want, but I bet it won't be.
What do you mean, are you expecting some kind of riot?
There is clearly the potential for some people to take things too far and for the police to get involved. I hope not because if that does happen it becomes the story rather the original intentions.
There is always the potential for people to take things too far whatever the circumstances - should the match be banned because there is a potential for disorder when 25,000 fans gather in one place? Of course not - not acting in case something negative might happen seems pretty extreme in itself - nobody would ever get out of bed...
That's an obvious distortion of the point I made. I was answering the question about there being a riot not passing a view on whether people should do it or not. We all saw from the Baggies game last year, when a celebratory pitch invasion was reported as a return to the dark ages, that these things happen.
You predict a riot
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From what I've seen the organisers have insisted that the protest is intended to be peaceful.
They can intend it to be peaceful all they want, but I bet it won't be.
What do you mean, are you expecting some kind of riot?
There is clearly the potential for some people to take things too far and for the police to get involved. I hope not because if that does happen it becomes the story rather the original intentions.
There is always the potential for people to take things too far whatever the circumstances - should the match be banned because there is a potential for disorder when 25,000 fans gather in one place? Of course not - not acting in case something negative might happen seems pretty extreme in itself - nobody would ever get out of bed...
That's an obvious distortion of the point I made. I was answering the question about there being a riot not passing a view on whether people should do it or not. We all saw from the Baggies game last year, when a celebratory pitch invasion was reported as a return to the dark ages, that these things happen.
Hi Chris - I tried to make sure it didn't look as if I was trying to say that you said that mate as I was trying to make a wider point - sorry if I failed - unfortunately the press will report anything any damned way they want and hang reality
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No worries, WW, it isn't the first and won't be the last time I get the wrong end of the stick on here.
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From what I've seen the organisers have insisted that the protest is intended to be peaceful.
They can intend it to be peaceful all they want, but I bet it won't be.
What do you mean, are you expecting some kind of riot?
When people are angry enough to shout "wanker" at a coach window for fifteen minutes I don't hold out too much hope for a peaceful protest.
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From what I've seen the organisers have insisted that the protest is intended to be peaceful.
They can intend it to be peaceful all they want, but I bet it won't be.
What do you mean, are you expecting some kind of riot?
When people are angry enough to shout "wanker" at a coach window for fifteen minutes I don't hold out too much hope for a peaceful protest.
It was directly after yet another piss poor performance and result and I'm sure a few beers were taken as well. I doubt if anyone would be that hyped up at an AGM.
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No matter what Fox comes out with, does anyone have any faith in him being able to do a decent job and back up his hollow words? He is tainted with failure now too. Still no sign of this ''imminent'' Chairman.
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This fixation with a Chairman, unless he can score 20 goals in about 10 matches and keep the same amount of clean sheets, he is going to be no use to us this year.
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This fixation with a Chairman, unless he can score 20 goals in about 10 matches and keep the same amount of clean sheets, he is going to be no use to us this year.
No fixation, just another example of how incompetent anyone in the hierarchy of the club is. Old Randolph said there were plan A and plan B.
Plan A was to sell the club.
Plan B, in the case of the club not selling was for him to resign his position and employ a new Chairman, in his words, one who could put the time and attention in to the club that he lacks.
He has done neither, again, just empty words. Everything at the club is half hearted at best.
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This fixation with a Chairman, unless he can score 20 goals in about 10 matches and keep the same amount of clean sheets, he is going to be no use to us this year.
Not this year, but if he (or she) knows what they are doing and can begin to sort out the mess made by others then they will be of great use going forward.
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But please remember who is going to appoint this Chairman, so even if we get one , he will be a arse licking yes man lackey for Randy, why change his recruitment habits now, so don't hold your breathe on getting David Dean or the like, more like James Dean.
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The whole place is in shock right now, they've hit panic mode. The season is a disaster and the fans are turning nasty. The pampered players, who have long lived on easy street are getting a backlash and they've shit themselves.
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Yeah I think you are right AJ, we have bent over and not said a word of protest as they have shafted us good and proper for the last 5 years, now the poor peasants are rising they have not got a clue what to do about it. I believe Garde has given them a ultimatum and they have not got a scooby how to handle it.
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Yeah I think you are right AJ, we have bent over and not said a word of protest as they have shafted us good and proper for the last 5 years, now the poor peasants are rising they have not got a clue what to do about it. I believe Garde has given them a ultimatum and they have not got a scooby how to handle it.
What ultimatum do you believe he has given them
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No matter what Fox comes out with, does anyone have any faith in him being able to do a decent job and back up his hollow words? He is tainted with failure now too. Still no sign of this ''imminent'' Chairman.
It seems there is!
Given a bump as Steve Hollies has requested a seat at the AVST AGM and will be there on Thursday night.
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As will a couple of patrons and we now have over 150 confirmed attendees from the paid membership. Tomorrow for me will be a long day!
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Looking forwards to hearing what is brought up at the meeting.
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Would it be possible to join tomorrow pre meeting? Thanks in advance..
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Would it be possible to join tomorrow pre meeting? Thanks in advance..
Unfortunately not. There was a cut off point a few days back if I remember correctly.
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Doesn't sound like Hollis and Fox are saying much to satisfy people at the AGM given the remarks appearing on twitter. Hollis referring to the fans as "customers".
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http://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2016/1/21/10809888/aston-villas-agm-with-tom-fox-and-steve-hollis-is-a-disaster
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http://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2016/1/21/10809888/aston-villas-agm-with-tom-fox-and-steve-hollis-is-a-disaster
Isn't that blog run by the bloke who's complained about the Trust before?
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http://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2016/1/21/10809888/aston-villas-agm-with-tom-fox-and-steve-hollis-is-a-disaster
Isn't that blog run by the bloke who's complained about the Trust before?
Yes. Like me he holds the trust in low esteem. But I do not think he slams them at all in that article does he?
edit: yeah he does (in the title). My mistake. Still the main thrust is (rightfully) picking apart the clubs responses to the questions.
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http://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2016/1/21/10809888/aston-villas-agm-with-tom-fox-and-steve-hollis-is-a-disaster
Thanks for linking that.
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Doesn't sound like Hollis and Fox are saying much to satisfy people at the AGM given the remarks appearing on twitter. Hollis referring to the fans as "customers".
SH didn't actually refer to Villa fans as 'customers'. He was referring to former businesses he ran and their customers
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http://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2016/1/21/10809888/aston-villas-agm-with-tom-fox-and-steve-hollis-is-a-disaster
Isn't that blog run by the bloke who's complained about the Trust before?
Yes. Like me he holds the trust in low esteem. But I do not think he slams them at all in that article does he?
edit: yeah he does (in the title). My mistake. Still the main thrust is (rightfully) picking apart the clubs responses to the questions.
After picking apart all of the answers, he ends with this:
"So yeah, I can't disagree with many of the answers, but the business lingo used so well by Tom Fox and Steve Hollis will not endear them to a hostile audience."
So he doesn't disagree with many of the answers but has picked them all apart and called it a disaster.
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http://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2016/1/21/10809888/aston-villas-agm-with-tom-fox-and-steve-hollis-is-a-disaster
That's so badly written, he shouldn't have bothered.
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According to Fox, Garde is happy with the squad he has?
I find that very hard to believe.
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“You see some clubs above us spending crazy money on average talent, they are rolling the dice.”
Fox, football expert.
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“You see some clubs above us spending crazy money on average talent, they are rolling the dice.”
Fox, football expert.
Is he wrong? 14m for Andros Townsend, 12m for Shelvey, 7m for Grabban.
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Although the context in which they were made is not included, some of the comments attributed to Fox speak volumes. He seems unable and unwilling to admit that he has got things badly wrong and the line about not being willing to spend money is almost an admittance that we are down already. I think many of us accept that is the case, but I would hope to hear a little more ambition from those running the club.
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Fans have said for weeks we are down and should plan accordingly now the board say it and they are just giving up...
Players won't come where we are and signing likes of Naismith for close to 10 mil is a big gamble.Should be remembered 3 teams go down so 2 of those clubs spending huge sums is going down and will have to deal with the financial fall out
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“You see some clubs above us spending crazy money on average talent, they are rolling the dice.”
Fox, football expert.
Is he wrong? 14m for Andros Townsend, 12m for Shelvey, 7m for Grabban.
If I'd been instrumental in taking a club the size of Aston Villa into the Championship, I'd keep my footballing opinions to myself.
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Although the context in which they were made is not included, some of the comments attributed to Fox speak volumes. He seems unable and unwilling to admit that he has got things badly wrong and the line about not being willing to spend money is almost an admittance that we are down already. I think many of us accept that is the case, but I would hope to hear a little more ambition from those running the club.
Indeed. Throwing in the towel is a disgrace as is the failure to accept responsibility for getting us to this point in the first place. How can an ever present premier league club end up rooted to the bottom after 22 games?.
These are some of the worst days in villa's history. It is incredibly sad to see what has been going on and is going on. Sometimes I no longer recognise the club...it's a pity fans are so divided and get into fights with each other given the magnitude of incompetence at Villa Park.
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“You see some clubs above us spending crazy money on average talent, they are rolling the dice.”
Fox, football expert.
Is he wrong? 14m for Andros Townsend, 12m for Shelvey, 7m for Grabban.
If I'd been instrumental in taking a club the size of Aston Villa into the Championship, I'd keep my footballing opinions to myself.
I'll ask again. Is he wrong?
And also, if he's not allowed to comment on anything to do with football, there seems little point in him going to the Trust AGM. For which he would have also got slated had he stayed away.
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“You see some clubs above us spending crazy money on average talent, they are rolling the dice.”
Fox, football expert.
Is he wrong? 14m for Andros Townsend, 12m for Shelvey, 7m for Grabban.
If I'd been instrumental in taking a club the size of Aston Villa into the Championship, I'd keep my footballing opinions to myself.
I'll ask again. Is he wrong?
If they stay up, probably.
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Did anyone point out to Fox that the Championship is below the Premier League and we don't want to go into it?
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“You see some clubs above us spending crazy money on average talent, they are rolling the dice.”
Fox, football expert.
Is he wrong? 14m for Andros Townsend, 12m for Shelvey, 7m for Grabban.
If I'd been instrumental in taking a club the size of Aston Villa into the Championship, I'd keep my footballing opinions to myself.
I'll ask again. Is he wrong?
If they stay up, probably.
At this moment, are clubs rolling the dice and paying big money for average players?
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No he is not wrong however he has failed in his primary task so people are right to question his opinion.
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“You see some clubs above us spending crazy money on average talent, they are rolling the dice.”
Fox, football expert.
Is he wrong? 14m for Andros Townsend, 12m for Shelvey, 7m for Grabban.
If I'd been instrumental in taking a club the size of Aston Villa into the Championship, I'd keep my footballing opinions to myself.
I'll ask again. Is he wrong?
If they stay up, probably.
At this moment, are clubs rolling the dice and paying big money for average players?
I think we were the ones rolling the dice in the summer. Big money - if they stay up, its small money.
Newcastle probably will stay up.
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No he is not wrong however he has failed in his primary task so people are right to question his opinion.
Who said they aren't? However, the fact that he has failed in his primary task doesn't mean that every single thing he says is automatically wrong or that he shouldn't be allowed to say it.
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“You see some clubs above us spending crazy money on average talent, they are rolling the dice.”
Fox, football expert.
Is he wrong? 14m for Andros Townsend, 12m for Shelvey, 7m for Grabban.
If I'd been instrumental in taking a club the size of Aston Villa into the Championship, I'd keep my footballing opinions to myself.
I'll ask again. Is he wrong?
If they stay up, probably.
At this moment, are clubs rolling the dice and paying big money for average players?
Well maybe if we'd been spending money on the likes of Shelvey over the years instead of bargain basement Westwood, El Ahmadi, Sylla, Tonev, Richardson, Joe Cole we wouldn't have had half a decade of fighting relegation and it finally biting us in the ass to such an extent that we find ourselves so far adrift that it is too risky to spend. This has been coming for years because we have shown no ambition and haven't heeded the warnings.
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No he is not wrong however he has failed in his primary task so people are right to question his opinion.
Who said they aren't? However, the fact that he has failed in his primary task doesn't mean that every single thing he says is automatically wrong or that he shouldn't be allowed to say it.
Ok that's fair enough.
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“You see some clubs above us spending crazy money on average talent, they are rolling the dice.”
Fox, football expert.
Is he wrong? 14m for Andros Townsend, 12m for Shelvey, 7m for Grabban.
If I'd been instrumental in taking a club the size of Aston Villa into the Championship, I'd keep my footballing opinions to myself.
I'll ask again. Is he wrong?
If they stay up, probably.
At this moment, are clubs rolling the dice and paying big money for average players?
I think we were the ones rolling the dice in the summer. Big money - if they stay up, its small money.
Newcastle probably will stay up.
I can't be bothered.
Whatever he had said, you'd have slagged him off for it. If he had said nothing, you'd have slagged him off for it too. If he hadn't gone to the AGM, guess what, he'd have got slagged off for that too.
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He didn't say he was unwilling to spend money but repeatedly that was what people heard because he doesn't communicate well with a football audience. This is mostly why they need a 'football man' on the Board, as a translator! Brian Little or one of our favourite Taylor's wouldn't be switching people off with talk of customers and crimson ribbons for a start, but talking a language that Football supporters get.
What he was talking about is the fact that we are not in a great position to sign players. I have said it already that we only need one other premier club to be in for a player we want right now, and they won't be coming here, because we are not just bottom, we are very close to gone.
Therefore, we can probably only attract players who might not improve us, or players who might improve us but will come on the basis that we are prepared to throw a shitload of money on a stupid contract at them, which would seem to be a mistake we have made quite frequently before.
He clearly said several times that there are several players they are in talks with right now, but it isn't easy because of the position we are in. Basically, they aren't going to sign players who aren't good value, and could create greater problems for us down the line because they were desperation signings.
He started talking with the 'not signing people' bit, the 'not throwing money at it' bit, and by the time he got to the 'we're talking to several players' bit, everyone had already heard that we aren't signing anyone. Quite honestly, he'd have been better off just saying that we're after several players right now, and then, if none of them come off, explain that at the end of the window. No-one wants to hear the excuses at this stage. They are trying to sign people, it isn't easy but they'll do their utmost, is all he needs to say right now, not worry about being called a liar in 10 days time.
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“You see some clubs above us spending crazy money on average talent, they are rolling the dice.”
Fox, football expert.
Is he wrong? 14m for Andros Townsend, 12m for Shelvey, 7m for Grabban.
If I'd been instrumental in taking a club the size of Aston Villa into the Championship, I'd keep my footballing opinions to myself.
I'll ask again. Is he wrong?
If they stay up, probably.
At this moment, are clubs rolling the dice and paying big money for average players?
I think we were the ones rolling the dice in the summer. Big money - if they stay up, its small money.
Newcastle probably will stay up.
I can't be bothered.
Whatever he had said, you'd have slagged him off for it. If he had said nothing, you'd have slagged him off for it too. If he hadn't gone to the AGM, guess what, he'd have got slagged off for that too.
I think that's a little unfair. If he wants to offer his opinion on football matters at other clubs, he will get mocked. I'm not a great fan of Shelvey but he'll improve Newcastle.
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According to Fox, Garde is happy with the squad he has?
I find that very hard to believe.
Fox talks out of his arse non stop. He's been an abject failure as CEO and should fall on his sword in the summer.
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He didn't say he was unwilling to spend money but repeatedly that was what people heard because he doesn't communicate well with a football audience. This is mostly why they need a 'football man' on the Board, as a translator! Brian Little or one of our favourite Taylor's wouldn't be switching people off with talk of customers and crimson ribbons for a start, but talking a language that Football supporters get.
What he was talking about is the fact that we are not in a great position to sign players. I have said it already that we only need one other premier club to be in for a player we want right now, and they won't be coming here, because we are not just bottom, we are very close to gone.
Therefore, we can probably only attract players who might not improve us, or players who might improve us but will come on the basis that we are prepared to throw a shitload of money on a stupid contract at them, which would seem to be a mistake we have made quite frequently before.
He clearly said several times that there are several players they are in talks with right now, but it isn't easy because of the position we are in. Basically, they aren't going to sign players who aren't good value, and could create greater problems for us down the line because they were desperation signings.
He started talking with the 'not signing people' bit, the 'not throwing money at it' bit, and by the time he got to the 'we're talking to several players' bit, everyone had already heard that we aren't signing anyone. Quite honestly, he'd have been better off just saying that we're after several players right now, and then, if none of them come off, explain that at the end of the window. No-one wants to hear the excuses at this stage. They are trying to sign people, it isn't easy but they'll do their utmost, is all he needs to say right now, not worry about being called a liar in 10 days time.
For a man that's so well qualified in previous roles this statement is ridiculous. He should know well enough that if you say two contradictory things to people then they will only concentrate on the first part.
Eg, "I'm not lying to you, however we should do......." A people will only hear and concentrate on the "I'm not lying to you part"
Basic basic psyc
As you've said, he should have led with the "we're talking to a few players" however.........
This just shows how basic our leadership is in some areas
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Did anyone point out to Fox that the Championship is below the Premier League and we don't want to go into it?
They seem to think the Championship is some fabled land that we sort us out financially and we will piss the league and stroll back in to the Premier bigger and better than ever. Unfortunately with fuck wit Fox and his ilk involved I find this extremely unlikely.
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No they don't. And that wasn't the gist of how the Q+A went at all.
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it has become clear, this evening, that we have a Board that will soon be at odds with each other. Hollis will make decisions, based on his reckoning that Fox is clueless. Fox will run to Lerner and undermine Hollis. I really hope it isn't so but Fox does not seem to be the sort of bloke to be told to stick to what he understands.
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I thought this AGM would give a bit of hope to fans but Christ I walked out of there feeling even worse.
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Were Fox and Hollis sat together?
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Yes, on the top table with the Trust Chairman.
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I thought this AGM would give a bit of hope to fans but Christ I walked out of there feeling even worse.
You didn't think that at all surely. What did you expect them to say? The only unknown was Mr. Hollis and he has to be given a chance. Without the board structure of old, we were not able to give a vote of no confidence in the board.
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I thought this AGM would give a bit of hope to fans but Christ I walked out of there feeling even worse.
You didn't think that at all surely. What did you expect them to say? The only unknown was Mr. Hollis and he has to be given a chance. Without the board structure of old, we were not able to give a vote of no confidence in the board.
I'd have hoped for a bit of fighting talk from the board that we were still ambitious and positive about staying up, and perhaps a hint or two that we were to spend our way out of trouble this month.
What we got though was a load of twaddle about keeping our exciting young squad together for next season. It was almost like they're already embracing relegation.
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Established players don't want to join us though, surely it's not defeatist to say that?
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I thought this AGM would give a bit of hope to fans but Christ I walked out of there feeling even worse.
You didn't think that at all surely. What did you expect them to say? The only unknown was Mr. Hollis and he has to be given a chance. Without the board structure of old, we were not able to give a vote of no confidence in the board.
I'd have hoped for a bit of fighting talk from the board that we were still ambitious and positive about staying up, and perhaps a hint or two that we were to spend our way out of trouble this month.
What we got though was a load of twaddle about keeping our exciting young squad together for next season. It was almost like they're already embracing relegation.
Fox had made it several weeks ago that he expected us to be relegated. I just hope that we start the new season without him on our board.
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it has become clear, this evening, that we have a Board that will soon be at odds with each other. Hollis will make decisions, based on his reckoning that Fox is clueless. Fox will run to Lerner and undermine Hollis. I really hope it isn't so but Fox does not seem to be the sort of bloke to be told to stick to what he understands.
Didn't go tonight, but it is clear from their views on what went on in the summer that Hollis and Fox might not see eye-to-eye.
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it has become clear, this evening, that we have a Board that will soon be at odds with each other. Hollis will make decisions, based on his reckoning that Fox is clueless. Fox will run to Lerner and undermine Hollis. I really hope it isn't so but Fox does not seem to be the sort of bloke to be told to stick to what he understands.
Didn't go tonight, but it is clear from their views on what went on in the summer that Hollis and Fox might not see eye-to-eye.
You are bang on. I don't see Hollis as being a bullshitter.
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Established players don't want to join us though, surely it's not defeatist to say that?
I think that's just a cop out. There are decent players out there that might join on short term deals if we offered them the money. That's the problem though (in my opinion), we won't pay the wages for these players. Our wage bill goes down every season so it's no wonder the team is sinking like a stone along with it.
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Fox to be gone before end of season just my view. Chairman will want his own man in, tis often the way in 'troubled organisations' where 'governance' is lacking and there is a need to conduct a 'root and branch shake up'.
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Fox to be gone before end of season just my view. Chairman will want his own man in, tis often the way in 'troubled organisations' where 'governance' is lacking and there is a need to conduct a 'root and branch shake up'.
Definitely. There aren't many sticking up for a Fox. He needs to find another vocation.
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I'm not gonna stick up for Fox, but if he leaves he'll only be replaced by yet another Lerner mouthpiece.
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I'm not gonna stick up for Fox, but if he leaves he'll only be replaced by yet another Lerner mouthpiece.
One step at a time. Get rid of Fox first.
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Isn't it so reassuring to learn that Randy has just realised that the club hasn't been very well run.If its taken that long to work out there is a problem I wonder what timescale he is working to in order to fix it?
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Did anyone point out to Fox that the Championship is below the Premier League and we don't want to go into it?
They seem to think the Championship is some fabled land that we sort us out financially and we will piss the league and stroll back in to the Premier bigger and better than ever. Unfortunately with fuck wit Fox and his ilk involved I find this extremely unlikely.
Completely agree. I actually have no animus towards Fox but he really should be more measured about what he says.
He seems to believe we have been some kind of massive spenders the past few years and finally its time to stop the fire hose.
In fact we are looking like we will be relegated because we STOPPED spending on quality a few seasons ago, not BECAUSE we bought expensive quality. Its backwards logic he has. I fear the board all nod their heads and have convinced themselves that buying high quality expensive players is a proven failed strategy. It isn't. trying to muddle through buying middling or un proven players at a low to mid price points has been the failure.
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Established players don't want to join us though, surely it's not defeatist to say that?
I think that's just a cop out. There are decent players out there that might join on short term deals if we offered them the money. That's the problem though (in my opinion), we won't pay the wages for these players. Our wage bill goes down every season so it's no wonder the team is sinking like a stone along with it.
I honestly think our best bet of getting the type of quality players we need to make a decent fist of the end of the season is on loan. I think, however, though we would probably need to shift a couple of the bigger earning time wasters before that could happen. If we did happen to go down, we wouldn't be in a place where we had expensive players tied to big contracts.
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Sounds like Fox has negotiated our biggest ever kit deal - even if/when relegation is confirmed and has a track record that includes the biggest kit deal in Arsenal's history. Clearly the arguments for him going are related to what we're seeing on the pitch and not what's happening commercially so the logical thing to do would be to make sure he's only involved in the commercial side.
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I'm not gonna stick up for Fox, but if he leaves he'll only be replaced by yet another Lerner mouthpiece.
Won't Hollis be tasked with appointments like that?
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Sounds like Fox has negotiated our biggest ever kit deal - even if/when relegation is confirmed and has a track record that includes the biggest kit deal in Arsenal's history. Clearly the arguments for him going are related to what we're seeing on the pitch and not what's happening commercially so the logical thing to do would be to make sure he's only involved in the commercial side.
Worth repeating if it ends up being true. That would be a huge plus to his credit.
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So, we are really no further forward after all that.
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Sounds like Fox has negotiated our biggest ever kit deal - even if/when relegation is confirmed and has a track record that includes the biggest kit deal in Arsenal's history. Clearly the arguments for him going are related to what we're seeing on the pitch and not what's happening commercially so the logical thing to do would be to make sure he's only involved in the commercial side.
Worth repeating if it ends up being true. That would be a huge plus to his credit.
Sounds good, but let's be honest we're probably only talking about a few million extra, which is probably what the likes of N'Zogbia and Agbonlahor earn in a year. It certainly is pittance compared to the revenue that will be lost if we do go down.
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I thought this AGM would give a bit of hope to fans but Christ I walked out of there feeling even worse.
You didn't think that at all surely. What did you expect them to say? The only unknown was Mr. Hollis and he has to be given a chance. Without the board structure of old, we were not able to give a vote of no confidence in the board.
I'd have hoped for a bit of fighting talk from the board that we were still ambitious and positive about staying up, and perhaps a hint or two that we were to spend our way out of trouble this month.
What we got though was a load of twaddle about keeping our exciting young squad together for next season. It was almost like they're already embracing relegation.
The squad is shit and the football as exciting as Vera Duckworth, the only part right is the young bit. We have 12 points and it's nearly February, do they think we are morons, we've seen the young and hungry guff before.
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So, any other craic at this meeting? Something to raise our spirits.
Were even the biscuits any good?
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Didn't attend the meeting (on account of living in the US) so obviously following what's been reported here and elsewhere.
Hollis has been here 5 minutes so very harsh to judge him as another Lerner puppet or similar. I read the 'customer' remark and it seems to have been a genuine use of a bad word; I take it more that what he was trying to say was the fans have still being very supportive despite the results on the pitch (which ultimately is what fans are looking at rather than new sponsorship or kit deals for record sums of money) but also an understanding that this level of support wont last forever if results do not improve.
With regards to transfers the caution approach whilst frustrating is actually I think the best approach here. Contrast to several years ago where we spent 24million on Darren Bent and that was seen as good business in terms of his goals keeping us in the division. Fast forward a few years and the legacy of that sort of contract is a contributing factor to the financial issues we faced/continue to face. In terms of the the value in the market right now; I'm not convinced the money being laid out for Shelvey, Naismith or others represents good value. For example, Everton are not getting relegated. Selling Naismith now for 9.5m; they could sell him for the same fee in the summer. If we paid that money now for him either we'd need to guarantee his wages wouldn't drop if we were relegated or insert a release clause below what we paid for him and to sell him in the summer. If we were a closer to staying up that kind of financial gamble maybe worth taking; where we are not maybe not. It's a calculated risk. Likewise with Shelvey; Swansea selling him for 12m is actually very good business for them given they command a much lower fee for him in the summer and I think it's widely understood that he wasn't 100% happy where he was. For the risk Newcastle took on selling him see above re. Naismith.
The comments around the summer recruitment and Sherwood are interesting. Its debated back and forth on here several times which group of signings were the best; those by the "committee" of Ayew, Amavi, Veretout, Traore, Gueye or those picked by Sherwood of Richards, Lescott and Richards. I'm of the opinion the former both from a current impact this season and also who would be better for the team longer term and in terms of resale value. Sherwood has happy to go along with the recruitment in the summer but the integration was clearly lacking. Fox appointment of Sherwood was arguably correct last year but he may not or should not of been tasked with taking the team forward this season. Likewise the "no football club lets one guy pick 15 guys" is a defence of the committee that has been debated many times. Fox has constantly said that many clubs sign players in this way and it's hard to disagree with this. Our committee has been scrutinized alot here but it was this lack of committee or otherwise that gave MON free reign to buy a number of expensive players on big wages to keep the bench warm.
I'm not convinced of the view that Fox will be gone if he and Hollis dont see eye to eye; that's why you have multiple people in a decision making approach. We could have 12 board members but if they all agrred all the time 11 of them are superflous. I think Hollis role will be to oversee the other members of the team, Garde, Fox, Reilly and Almstadt and aid and mediate in the decision making process allowing each member to focus on their specific area (as OCD articulated rather better than I just have)
Any fan expecting Fox and Hollis to come out with lots of bravado that we are definitely staying up and new expensive signings are coming was never going to get that.
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Sounds like Fox has negotiated our biggest ever kit deal - even if/when relegation is confirmed and has a track record that includes the biggest kit deal in Arsenal's history. Clearly the arguments for him going are related to what we're seeing on the pitch and not what's happening commercially so the logical thing to do would be to make sure he's only involved in the commercial side.
Championship font kit number and Under Armour makes my skin crawl.
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The fuck-ups were the summers of 2013 and 2014 (and 2012, sort of) - i.e. before the current big wigs at the club turned up. It's one thing if players of genuine quality were available and willing to come here yet the board was unwilling to spend the necessary sizeable amounts to get them; but that's not the case here - we're talking about bog-standard players here who realistically won't move the needle much on our survival hopes.
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The fuck-ups were the summers of 2013 and 2014 (and 2012, sort of) - i.e. before the current big wigs at the club turned up. It's one thing if players of genuine quality were available and willing to come here yet the board was unwilling to spend the necessary sizeable amounts to get them; but that's not the case here - we're talking about bog-standard players here who realistically won't move the needle much on our survival hopes.
I'll be the first to admit I approved of lambert, but don't forget the managerial/hierarchy appointments. There has been far too many mistakes on every front. I honestly can't believe we stayed up this long..
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http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1so7ebb
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http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1so7ebb
Blimey - that's upset him then - did the room really "erupt in laughter"?
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http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1so7ebb
Ah bless him the delicate little flower.
Collymore, an annoying sideshow to be honest.
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Full transcript of the meeting from Steve Wollaston via the Birmingham Mail.
Steve Hollis meets the fans (https://social.shorthand.com/stevewollaston/ugFwyf4tbY/steve-hollis-meets-the-fans)
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http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1so7ebb
Boo frickty Hoo , so if we haven't phone up Talkshite as supporters we are all as culpable as the board ! Yes Stan I am guilty as charged.
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http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1so7ebb
Boo frickty Hoo , so if we haven't phone up Talkshite as supporters we are all as culpable as the board ! Yes Stan I am guilty as charged.
collymore can fuck off, for the club he claims to love he couldnt really be arsed when he played for us
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Established players don't want to join us though, surely it's not defeatist to say that?
I think that's just a cop out. There are decent players out there that might join on short term deals if we offered them the money. That's the problem though (in my opinion), we won't pay the wages for these players. Our wage bill goes down every season so it's no wonder the team is sinking like a stone along with it.
Well seems we want (ed) Remy and Debuchy on loan...they're not exactly racing up the M6 are they? In any case their parent clubs would pay most of their wages.
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Full transcript of the meeting from Steve Wollaston via the Birmingham Mail.
Steve Hollis meets the fans (https://social.shorthand.com/stevewollaston/ugFwyf4tbY/steve-hollis-meets-the-fans)
Thanks for that. I don't feel too negative after reading that, we all know we are in a nightmare situation and whatever was said can't change that. I don't think chucking big money around now would be the right thing to do either, as we'd probably still go down, only in the process we'd have harmed our chances of coming straight back up.
The way I see it there's two new guys at the club, the first is Garde, who I'm positive about. The second is Hollis, who we all have to give time and not make any assumptions just because Lerner has appointed him, he's now the chairman and it's his neck on the line.
Garde has the feel of a proper manager about him to me, not the caretaker-feel Sherwood had. I'm confident under Garde we wouldn't go into any season undercooked in terms of fitness, and in terms of our squad (Gestede as main CF, Guzan main keeper), this happened under Sherwood's watch.
I would have preferred a chairman with more of a sporting background, but we will have to hope Hollis's business experience in other areas along with his knowledge of English football through being a fan means he can do a good job.
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Reading the transcript it would be interesting to see if anyone can point out where he called us customers?
He refers to customer in business, and how you lose them in any business if you don't provide a good service, and then he immediately refers to US as FANS, in the next sentence.
It's not in any way an unreasonable statement, but let's use a misquote to support our pre-conceived view that he's useless, when he's hardly been here a week, and scatter it all over Twitter.
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Reading the transcript it would be interesting to see if anyone can point out where he called us customers?
He refers to customer in business, and how you lose them in any business if you don't provide a good service, and then he immediately refers to US as FANS, in the next sentence.
He even clarifies that point later - when he says "my apologies for using the word ‘customer’. It was directed at previous businesses who have never actually had supporters".
Claiming that he was calling Villa supporters customers is pretty disingenuous. Or misreading what he said.
"Every business I have ever been involved in is only as good as the service you provide for your customer, the relationship that you have with your customer and suppliers".
That's pretty clear that he's talking about what he has done previously rather than what he is about to do at Villa.
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I can't say that I agree with some of the doom and gloom about the AGM, at least from the transcript I've read. It actually sounded as if Fox gave a half decent account of where we've been going wrong, and that slowly we're putting things right (though too late to save our place on the gravy train). I'm slightly more confident now that we've got a chance at restructuring the club for the Championship and coming straight back up than I was before. So hopefully we won't do a Leeds, Forest, Sheff Wed, etc.
A more fulsome apology for appointing Sherwood in the first place would've been nice though.
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Fox to be gone before end of season just my view. Chairman will want his own man in, tis often the way in 'troubled organisations' where 'governance' is lacking and there is a need to conduct a 'root and branch shake up'.
Can't see that myself. Hollis is not a 'footballing' man and so will not have any contacts in football clubs elsewhere to call on for 'his man'. For known entities, he would be looking in the world of general business/finance.
One thing you do not do in business when you take on a new role is get rid of high up staff as you not only have to earn your own corn but you take on the responsibility of the person you hire. Hollis will want to get his feet well and truly under the table before making any recommendations on changes. Besides, Fox will take the heat of himself while he settles in.
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It is as I said, they don't talk in a way fans understand.
It was surreal for me last night. I heard them say perfectly reasonable things about our situation, and looked around and saw fans with their head in their hands in genuine despair.
The disconnect in communication is a serous problem. I don't understand it. It wasn't even like the fans there weren't intelligent people, it's something in the way that fans understand football that is totally different to what these guys are used to, and they don't connect with it.
(I think I hear it because I have had one to ones, which are a better exchange of understanding, as others who have met them on this basis seem to hear them more like me)
Nothing wrong with what they are saying, but somehow, something very badly wrong with how they say it. That's what they need their 'football man' for.
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I have no trust that anything any of them do or say will turn out positive after the last decade. The owner has mostly employed people who do poor jobs, I don't trust his judgement, so why would I now? I will give them time, as I've done with all the appointments but expect nothing from any of them and will be pleasantly surprised if they do well.
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http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1so7ebb
Ah bless him the delicate little flower.
Collymore, an annoying sideshow to be honest.
I'm surprised he's let this get to him bearing in mind the stick he gets week in week out. If I were him I'd ignore it, who gives a toss what a few idiots do, our fans dont exactly have the best reputation after recent weeks so why take them seriously?
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Collymore is a laughable suggestion as a board member though.
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It is as I said, they don't talk in a way fans understand.
It was surreal for me last night. I heard them say perfectly reasonable things about our situation, and looked around and saw fans with their head in their hands in genuine despair.
The disconnect in communication is a serous problem. I don't understand it. It wasn't even like the fans there weren't intelligent people, it's something in the way that fans understand football that is totally different to what these guys are used to, and they don't connect with it.
(I think I hear it because I have had one to ones, which are a better exchange of understanding, as others who have met them on this basis seem to hear them more like me)
Nothing wrong with what they are saying, but somehow, something very badly wrong with how they say it. That's what they need their 'football man' for.
Obviously cannot comment on last night specifically but more generally I think the trust for the organisation is so far gone that pretty much anything they say is going to be viewed negatively. The only way that will change is by seeing some tangible change in fortunes over a consistent period. The board are just going to have to take it the chin for now.
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I've always thought he comes across very erudite.....
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It is as I said, they don't talk in a way fans understand.
It was surreal for me last night. I heard them say perfectly reasonable things about our situation, and looked around and saw fans with their head in their hands in genuine despair.
The disconnect in communication is a serous problem. I don't understand it. It wasn't even like the fans there weren't intelligent people, it's something in the way that fans understand football that is totally different to what these guys are used to, and they don't connect with it.
(I think I hear it because I have had one to ones, which are a better exchange of understanding, as others who have met them on this basis seem to hear them more like me)
Nothing wrong with what they are saying, but somehow, something very badly wrong with how they say it. That's what they need their 'football man' for.
I think they were always on a hiding to nothing yesterday and it's to their credit that faced the fans. There were accusations of them having thrown in the towel when they spoke about being prepared for relegation. Had they said they were determined for us to stay up, no doubt they'd have been accused of being unrealistic or delusional.
Amfy is completely correct that between them they spoke a lot of sense but it gets lost in a lot of inappropriate jargon. The best example of this was when Fox was answering a question on the club's activities during the transfer window and how the club's current league placing has hampered our efforts at bringing in new players and also touched on how this relates to the long term strategy and yet at the end of the meeting people were still shouting "Buy some players!" at him.
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It is as I said, they don't talk in a way fans understand.
It was surreal for me last night. I heard them say perfectly reasonable things about our situation, and looked around and saw fans with their head in their hands in genuine despair.
The disconnect in communication is a serous problem. I don't understand it. It wasn't even like the fans there weren't intelligent people, it's something in the way that fans understand football that is totally different to what these guys are used to, and they don't connect with it.
(I think I hear it because I have had one to ones, which are a better exchange of understanding, as others who have met them on this basis seem to hear them more like me)
Nothing wrong with what they are saying, but somehow, something very badly wrong with how they say it. That's what they need their 'football man' for.
The best example of this was when Fox was answering a question on the club's activities during the transfer window and how the club's current league placing has hampered our efforts at bringing in new players and also touched on how this relates to the long term strategy and yet at the end of the meeting people were still shouting "Buy some players!" at him.
Clueless, this is why the fans aren't taken seriously.
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I've always thought he comes across very erudite.....
'erudite' - yep - that's the problem I think!
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To be honest how are very unhappy fans of the rock bottom club who have almost, who have signed no one whilst other clubs around them strengthen going to vent? They're hardly likely to shout keep the war chest until summer! I think people are just angry and looking for a lift from somewhere and sales patter and business jargon isn't the most inspiring and just goes over peoples heads. Deep down, we all know we aren't going to get anyone decent in right now and we know why.
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I've always thought he comes across very erudite.....
Same here.
Actually I was at the AGM and I don't remember anyone roaring with laughter at the Collymore suggestion, in fact for the life of me I can't even remember his name mentioned.
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It is as I said, they don't talk in a way fans understand.
It was surreal for me last night. I heard them say perfectly reasonable things about our situation, and looked around and saw fans with their head in their hands in genuine despair.
The disconnect in communication is a serous problem. I don't understand it. It wasn't even like the fans there weren't intelligent people, it's something in the way that fans understand football that is totally different to what these guys are used to, and they don't connect with it.
(I think I hear it because I have had one to ones, which are a better exchange of understanding, as others who have met them on this basis seem to hear them more like me)
Nothing wrong with what they are saying, but somehow, something very badly wrong with how they say it. That's what they need their 'football man' for.
The best example of this was when Fox was answering a question on the club's activities during the transfer window and how the club's current league placing has hampered our efforts at bringing in new players and also touched on how this relates to the long term strategy and yet at the end of the meeting people were still shouting "Buy some players!" at him.
Clueless, this is why the fans aren't taken seriously.
Oh please!
'Players won't come because we're rock bottom' sounds like a convenient excuse to me. Players will come if you show them the money, but that's the problem right there. They won't spend the money.
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I've always thought he comes across very erudite.....
Same here.
Actually I was at the AGM and I don't remember anyone roaring with laughter at the Collymore suggestion, in fact for the life of me I can't even remember his name mentioned.
There was a general statement made about having a Villa man on the board in some capacity and his was a name mentioned along with Brian Little, Ian Taylor, Graham Taylor. There was a guffaw or two but nothing like the gales of laughter suggested by "one blogger" that Stan is so upset about.
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I've always thought he comes across very erudite.....
Same here.
Actually I was at the AGM and I don't remember anyone roaring with laughter at the Collymore suggestion, in fact for the life of me I can't even remember his name mentioned.
If that's the case, sounds like someone trying to make a name for themselves on Twatter by slagging Collymore.
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I've always thought he comes across very erudite.....
Same here.
Actually I was at the AGM and I don't remember anyone roaring with laughter at the Collymore suggestion, in fact for the life of me I can't even remember his name mentioned.
If that's the case, sounds like someone trying to make a name for themselves on Twatter by slagging Collymore.
That's exactly what it sounds like to me.
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It is as I said, they don't talk in a way fans understand.
It was surreal for me last night. I heard them say perfectly reasonable things about our situation, and looked around and saw fans with their head in their hands in genuine despair.
The disconnect in communication is a serous problem. I don't understand it. It wasn't even like the fans there weren't intelligent people, it's something in the way that fans understand football that is totally different to what these guys are used to, and they don't connect with it.
(I think I hear it because I have had one to ones, which are a better exchange of understanding, as others who have met them on this basis seem to hear them more like me)
Nothing wrong with what they are saying, but somehow, something very badly wrong with how they say it. That's what they need their 'football man' for.
The best example of this was when Fox was answering a question on the club's activities during the transfer window and how the club's current league placing has hampered our efforts at bringing in new players and also touched on how this relates to the long term strategy and yet at the end of the meeting people were still shouting "Buy some players!" at him.
Clueless, this is why the fans aren't taken seriously.
Players will come if you show them the money, but that's the problem right there. They won't spend the money.
Yep just the type of player we need..... Nzogbia anybody? Would be crazy of the board to adopt that kind of thinking.
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Yeah let's not spend just in case we sign another flop like N'Zogbia. Brilliant!
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I can't say that I agree with some of the doom and gloom about the AGM, at least from the transcript I've read. It actually sounded as if Fox gave a half decent account of where we've been going wrong, and that slowly we're putting things right (though too late to save our place on the gravy train). I'm slightly more confident now that we've got a chance at restructuring the club for the Championship and coming straight back up than I was before. So hopefully we won't do a Leeds, Forest, Sheff Wed, etc.
A more fulsome apology for appointing Sherwood in the first place would've been nice though.
I think the only doom and gloom would come from those expecting to hear that we were going to be spending millions in the window in a bid to stay up. I was going to attend last night, but after the appointment of Hollis, I saw little point as it was pretty clear how the club is going to be run going forward.
Having read the transcript, I still get the impression that Fox seems to believe that what is going on behind the scenes is more important than what is happening on the pitch. Surely what is happening on the pitch is the number one priority at any football club, especially in the Premier League with they type of income involved.
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Fox said something about why he thought our new players hadn't had much of an impact (understatement of the year), and blamed it on them not being integrated well enough at Bodymoor. Nothing to do with them not being good enough then, Tom?
Honestly this lot must think we were all born yesterday.
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Yeah let's not spend just in case we sign another flop like N'Zogbia. Brilliant!
Having to throw money to persuade a player to join Villa makes a lot of sense doesn't it? Not sure why I asked that, clearly it does to you. Any decent player would be daft to join Villa in the position they're in unless they have intentions of being here for the long term. This season is shot, we're down and 99% of fans, potential targets know that. Plan for the future.
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Yeah let's not spend just in case we sign another flop like N'Zogbia. Brilliant!
In recent years we've had more Nzogbias than Bentekes, flawed thinking Saunders_heroes, I totally agree with the board.
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Money is not the answer entirely; if it was Wolves, WBA and Blues would all spend their way back into the Premiership.
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Yeah let's not spend just in case we sign another flop like N'Zogbia. Brilliant!
In recent years we've had more Nzogbias than Bentekes, flawed thinking Saunders_heroes, I totally agree with the board.
I'm sure they'll be delighted to hear it.
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Fox said something about why he thought our new players hadn't had much of an impact (understatement of the year), and blamed it on them not being integrated well enough at Bodymoor. Nothing to do with them not being good enough then, Tom?
Honestly this lot must think we were all born yesterday.
So who have been the brighter spots this season?
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Yeah let's not spend just in case we sign another flop like N'Zogbia. Brilliant!
Having to throw money to persuade a player to join Villa makes a lot of sense doesn't it? Not sure why I asked that, clearly it does to you. Any decent player would be daft to join Villa in the position they're in unless they have intentions of being here for the long term. This season is shot, we're down and 99% of fans, potential targets know that. Plan for the future.
We're not down. It's January not March or even April. What a defeatist attitude you have. Play your cards right and you may get a place on the board.
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Fox said something about why he thought our new players hadn't had much of an impact (understatement of the year), and blamed it on them not being integrated well enough at Bodymoor. Nothing to do with them not being good enough then, Tom?
Honestly this lot must think we were all born yesterday.
So who have been the brighter spots this season?
There's been no bright spots this season. Absolutely none.
You sure you've been watching Aston Villa this season?
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Yeah let's not spend just in case we sign another flop like N'Zogbia. Brilliant!
Having to throw money to persuade a player to join Villa makes a lot of sense doesn't it? Not sure why I asked that, clearly it does to you. Any decent player would be daft to join Villa in the position they're in unless they have intentions of being here for the long term. This season is shot, we're down and 99% of fans, potential targets know that. Plan for the future.
We're not down. It's January not March or even April. What a defeatist attitude you have. Play your cards right and you may get a place on the board.
Not defeatist purely realistic. As Roy Keane said Villa is a tired brand, players and fans are starting to realise that. We can't rely on the fact that we once won the European Cup as some fans seem to. Thankfully though the majority have woken up , although you always have a blinkered few. Potential incoming players are certainly only interested in current league position and the realistic scenario where we will be playing in The Championship next season.
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Yeah let's not spend just in case we sign another flop like N'Zogbia. Brilliant!
Having to throw money to persuade a player to join Villa makes a lot of sense doesn't it? Not sure why I asked that, clearly it does to you. Any decent player would be daft to join Villa in the position they're in unless they have intentions of being here for the long term. This season is shot, we're down and 99% of fans, potential targets know that. Plan for the future.
We're not down. It's January not March or even April. What a defeatist attitude you have. Play your cards right and you may get a place on the board.
Not defeatist purely realistic. As Roy Keane said Villa is a tired brand, players and fans are starting to realise that. We can't rely on the fact that we once won the European Cup as some fans seem to. Thankfully though the majority have woken up , you always have a blinkered few.
I don't give 2 shits what Keane says. We're not a tired brand, we've had the life kicked out of us by the owner and the fans have forgotten that we're a big club. Some of us though haven't given up, but there's always the few that have.
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Yeah let's not spend just in case we sign another flop like N'Zogbia. Brilliant!
Having to throw money to persuade a player to join Villa makes a lot of sense doesn't it? Not sure why I asked that, clearly it does to you. Any decent player would be daft to join Villa in the position they're in unless they have intentions of being here for the long term. This season is shot, we're down and 99% of fans, potential targets know that. Plan for the future.
We're not down. It's January not March or even April. What a defeatist attitude you have. Play your cards right and you may get a place on the board.
Not defeatist purely realistic. As Roy Keane said Villa is a tired brand, players and fans are starting to realise that. We can't rely on the fact that we once won the European Cup as some fans seem to. Thankfully though the majority have woken up , you always have a blinkered few.
I don't give 2 shits what Keane says. We're not a tired brand, we've had the life kicked out of us by the owner and the fans have forgotten that we're a big club. Some of us though haven't given up, but there's always the few that have.
Thank God you're nowhere near the board ;)
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Who exactly thinks that because we won the European cup once, 30 years ago we expect something right now?
We are the biggest club in the second city, we average and have averaged amongst the top 10 in attendance for the past god knows how long, we have a turnover amongst the 25 biggest in the world. That's the hear and nows of it, no history involved. Somehow it's become acceptable to be buying from Crewe, Chesterfield, French second division players and replacing our stars with no bodies and championship players.
We are only a tired brand because no ones gave a flying fuck about the club for the past 5 years and have left it to drift along like a random sock in a dirty river. I know who's fault that is and it certainly isn't the fans. They have had the stuffing knocked out of them, with the constant defeats, humiliations and piss takings and generally being the butt of the footballing jokes. I can forgive any fan for wanting to see a bit of hope and fighting spirit, I can't forgive an owner who has ran away from his duties and done too little too late. Fuck him.
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Who exactly thinks that because we won the European cup once, 30 years ago we expect something right now?
We are the biggest club in the second city, we average and have averaged amongst the top 10 in attendance for the past god knows how long, we have a turnover amongst the 25 biggest in the world. That's the hear and nows of it, no history involved. Somehow it's become acceptable to be buying from Crewe, Chesterfield, French second division players and replacing our stars with no bodies and championship players.
We are only a tired brand because no ones gave a flying fuck about the club for the past 5 years and have left it to drift along like a random sock in a dirty river. I know who's fault that is and it certainly isn't the fans. They have had the stuffing knocked out of them, with the constant defeats, humiliations and piss takings and generally being the butt of the footballing jokes. I can forgive any fan for wanting to see a bit of hope and fighting spirit, I can't forgive an owner who has ran away from his duties and done too little too late. Fuck him.
Hear hear!
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Fox said something about why he thought our new players hadn't had much of an impact (understatement of the year), and blamed it on them not being integrated well enough at Bodymoor. Nothing to do with them not being good enough then, Tom?
Honestly this lot must think we were all born yesterday.
So who have been the brighter spots this season?
There's been no bright spots this season. Absolutely none.
You sure you've been watching Aston Villa this season?
First I said brightER, not bright spots, but don't let that stop your determination to see black everywhere.
So the form that Ayew has shown as he's settled down hasn't been a brighter spot?
Veretout looking like a PROPER PREMIER LEAGUE FOOTBALLER © saunders_heroes isn't a brighter spot?
Okore settling down and starting to show why he was actually viewed as one of the most promising young centre backs in Europe a few years ago after coming back from 2 serious knee operations isn't a positive?
I'll hazard a guess that you're all time favourite songs are either a Metallica track from Ride The Lightning or a Rolling Stones track that was never originally an album track.
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Of course we are not already relegated, but there is no-one who can't admit that the situation RIGHT NOW is that it it more than likely that we will be. We could sign Messi and he probably couldn't save us.
Spending the kind of money it will take to get anyone who might improve us to come right now, would be suicidal, and far more likely to end up with a Bolton situation. It is not 'throwing in the towel' to say that whether we end up in The Championship, or survive, we become a more attractive destination for the type of players we will need in the summer than we are now.
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You're deluding yourself. We're rock bottom of the league and they're have been no bright spots (or 'brighter' spots or whatever you want to call it).
I think I should be calling that nurse for you again.
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Fox said something about why he thought our new players hadn't had much of an impact (understatement of the year), and blamed it on them not being integrated well enough at Bodymoor. Nothing to do with them not being good enough then, Tom?
Honestly this lot must think we were all born yesterday.
But some of them are good enough (Ayew, Veretout, Amavi, Gana, Traore), though so far only Ayew has shown this consistently. The problem is they were dumped into a dysfunctional squad with a dysfunctional manager and coaching staff, who hung them out to dry in their first few months at the club. This is what Fox meant by a 'failure to integrate', clearly.
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You're deluding yourself
Or, just able to tell the difference between different shades of grey.
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You're deluding yourself. We're rock bottom of the league and they're have been no bright spots (or 'brighter' spots or whatever you want to call it).
I think I should be calling that nurse for you again.
Ah, here we go again. You disagree with saunders_heroes, therefore you're deluded.
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So the club have conceded that we'll be relegated and won't be trying to sign big money, short term players in the transfer window. Makes sense to me, But why aren't we identifying championship-quality players who we think will do a job for us next season and giving them a 5 month head start to get used to playing as a team. Isn't this a perfect opportunity for Garde to get his championship side sorted out so that we can ( apologies for the wanky phrase) "hit the ground running" in August?
Buying nobody at all and suggesting it's pointless hardly convinces me that we have a clear strategy for next year. Unless I'm missing something here?
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Of course we are not already relegated, but there is no-one who can't admit that the situation RIGHT NOW is that it it more than likely that we will be. We could sign Messi and he probably couldn't save us.
Spending the kind of money it will take to get anyone who might improve us to come right now, would be suicidal, and far more likely to end up with a Bolton situation. It is not 'throwing in the towel' to say that whether we end up in The Championship, or survive, we become a more attractive destination for the type of players we will need in the summer than we are now.
Do we have the baliffs knocking on the door looking to take away the furniture or something?
The reason we're not spending isn't because of the reasons the sly Fox comes out with, it's because the owner has washed his hands of the club. They're not protecting is for next season at all in my opinion and I don't trust them to invest sufficiently to get us back up next year either (if we go down).
What makes you so confident they're trying to secure our future?
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Fox said something about why he thought our new players hadn't had much of an impact (understatement of the year), and blamed it on them not being integrated well enough at Bodymoor. Nothing to do with them not being good enough then, Tom?
Honestly this lot must think we were all born yesterday.
But some of them are good enough (Ayew, Veretout, Amavi, Gana, Traore), though so far only Ayew has shown this consistently. The problem is they were dumped into a dysfunctional squad with a dysfunctional manager and coaching staff, who hung them out to dry in their first few months at the club. This is what Fox meant by a 'failure to integrate', clearly.
I disagree, we might have the occasional above average performance from these players but mainly they've been poor. Ayew is hit and miss even though he seems to be one of the better ones. I can't accept they haven't been intergrated well. They're just not good enough, and I'm not gonna fall for Fox's bullshit.
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I don’t think there is a single person who will say that we’ve been well ran for the past five years, but this notion of us being some sort of brand with a right to the big time is part of the reason why no-one will give a crap once we go down.
Every fan of every mismanaged club has a right to question and complain about the way they are run, but the moment you bring in the notion ‘We won the European Cup’ or ‘We’re the biggest club in the Midlands’ you start to lose the sympathy. As regards being the biggest club in the second city, to most outside Brum it’s not the second city, it’s third or perhaps even fourth.
The only thing that matters is that this relegation, combined with the years of mismanagement, is the shock that those running the club need to substantially restructure it. It’s hard to judge that yet and certainly difficult to do so with a man a couple of weeks in a job, who’s made a few SoundBits.
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So the club have conceded that we'll be relegated and won't be trying to sign big money, short term players in the transfer window. Makes sense to me, But why aren't we identifying championship-quality players who we think will do a job for us next season and giving them a 5 month head start to get used to playing as a team. Isn't this a perfect opportunity for Garde to get his championship side sorted out so that we can ( apologies for the wanky phrase) "hit the ground running" in August?
Buying nobody at all and suggesting it's pointless hardly convinces me that we have a clear strategy for next year. Unless I'm missing something here?
Because they're bullshitting us.
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You're deluding yourself. We're rock bottom of the league and they're have been no bright spots (or 'brighter' spots or whatever you want to call it).
I think I should be calling that nurse for you again.
You really are a child of the digital age. On or Off and nothing in between.
Of course it's shit being where we are, but it's you that's deluded if you can't see any brighter spots at all.
I'm guessing that your solution would be to just bin the entire clubs worth of players and start from scratch, preferably not paying less than £20M per player and dishing out £100K per week contracts, just ensure we get Proper Premier League Players on Proper Premier League Wages.
As a matter of interest, who handles the domestic finances in your household? Because I'd love to know if you treat your own money the way you'd like to treat someone else's.
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Who exactly thinks that because we won the European cup once, 30 years ago we expect something right now?
We are the biggest club in the second city, we average and have averaged amongst the top 10 in attendance for the past god knows how long, we have a turnover amongst the 25 biggest in the world. That's the hear and nows of it, no history involved. Somehow it's become acceptable to be buying from Crewe, Chesterfield, French second division players and replacing our stars with no bodies and championship players.
We are only a tired brand because no ones gave a flying fuck about the club for the past 5 years and have left it to drift along like a random sock in a dirty river. I know who's fault that is and it certainly isn't the fans. They have had the stuffing knocked out of them, with the constant defeats, humiliations and piss takings and generally being the butt of the footballing jokes. I can forgive any fan for wanting to see a bit of hope and fighting spirit, I can't forgive an owner who has ran away from his duties and done too little too late. Fuck him.
I cannot disagree with any of that, the buck stops with Lerner.
I despise the man for what he's done to our once proud club. I honest believe we will be shuffling around in the wilderness for many years to come.
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Ayew is hit and miss even though he seems to be one of the better ones.
Oh, so it is possible after all to say that some things are better than others?
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What you also have to do is consider whether the ransom prices that you pay for players to "save" us actually will deliver improvement.
Bringing in players for the sake of it is no substitute for cool headed good judgement. As another poster put it very pithily, it could be like buying an expensive steak then boiling it and putting it into a trifle.
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Ayew is hit and miss even though he seems to be one of the better ones.
Oh, so it is possible after all to say that some things are better than others?
You trying to back up Denmark's suggestion that we've had bright spots this season, because I'm not going to agree with that, you know that don't you? It's been bloody woeful and well you know it.
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What you also have to do is consider whether the ransom prices that you pay for players to "save" us actually will deliver improvement.
Bringing in players for the sake of it is no substitute for cool headed good judgement. As another poster put it very pithily, it could be like buying an expensive steak then boiling it and putting it into a trifle.
Yeah, let's wave the white flag then.
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Saunders_heroes music collection
Track 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6d8eKvegLI)
Track 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfRY3SsozuM)
Track 3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs-XZ_dN4Hc)
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What you also have to do is consider whether the ransom prices that you pay for players to "save" us actually will deliver improvement.
Bringing in players for the sake of it is no substitute for cool headed good judgement. As another poster put it very pithily, it could be like buying an expensive steak then boiling it and putting it into a trifle.
Yeah, let's wave the white flag then.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes like you do.
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It's hard to reasonably argue that the new signings and Okore have been bright spots this season when we have 12 points and are 10 from safety. The table doesn't really lie does it. We've looked poor all across the park and a lot of people are showing a lot of goodwill and giving a grace period to the new players, because they are young and adapting to a different league. By and large though they haven't been very good. The results tell the truth of the matter.
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What you also have to do is consider whether the ransom prices that you pay for players to "save" us actually will deliver improvement.
Bringing in players for the sake of it is no substitute for cool headed good judgement. As another poster put it very pithily, it could be like buying an expensive steak then boiling it and putting it into a trifle.
Yeah, let's wave the white flag then.
Its not about waving the flag, its about accepting that the risk is too high to warrant a spending spree such as Newcastle. If we plan right now, we will bounce back at the first attempt.
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As for being a tired, old, brand.... how many people were saying that in 2010?
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It's hard to reasonably argue that the new signings and Okore have been bright spots this season when we have 12 points and are 10 from safety. The table doesn't really lie does it. We've looked poor all across the park and a lot of people are showing a lot of goodwill and giving a grace period to the new players, because they are young and adapting to a different league. By and large though they haven't been very good. The results tell the truth of the matter.
Indeed they do, but let's not focus on the negative, let's focus on the bright spots...
Erm...
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Oh and whilst your actually interacting with me despite previously calling me odd, pathetic and swearing you'd never acknowledge my existence again is there any chance that you could actually be arsed enough to defend your usual standpoint and answer this question which you'v been ignoring since the end of November?
I'm behind you 100% with your anti Lerner stance but I still don't think we'll go down.
I've asked you this before, but I'll try again.
How much do you think Lerner should have continued to invest, bearing that the current tab is north of £250M?
Background info before answering.
1. Abramovich, a man who's worth around 10 times Lerner's personal net worth, put the best part of £1 billion into Chelsea over a 10 year period before pretty much calling a halt. They still spend plenty "net" but it's almost all covered by CL and associated TV income.
2. The Mansoors, who to all intents and purposes have limitless wealth, put the best part of £1.2 billion into Man City over a 5-6 year period before reigning in the chequebook. Again they spend plenty "net" but it's almost all covered by CL and associated TV income.
3. "Enough" or similar isn't an answer. A number be it £1 or £10 billion or anywhere in between.
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What you also have to do is consider whether the ransom prices that you pay for players to "save" us actually will deliver improvement.
Bringing in players for the sake of it is no substitute for cool headed good judgement. As another poster put it very pithily, it could be like buying an expensive steak then boiling it and putting it into a trifle.
Yeah, let's wave the white flag then.
Its not about waving the flag, its about accepting that the risk is too high to warrant a spending spree such as Newcastle. If we plan right now, we will bounce back at the first attempt.
Will we? Do you really trust Lerner's Villa to get us straight back up on the basis that we're keep our pennies in our pocket in January to save for the summer? Really?
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Ayew is hit and miss even though he seems to be one of the better ones.
Oh, so it is possible after all to say that some things are better than others?
You trying to back up Denmark's suggestion that we've had bright spots this season, because I'm not going to agree with that, you know that don't you? It's been bloody woeful and well you know it.
Surely you can see that brighter isn't the same as bright, can't you?
If you're in a dark room and you switch your phone on, that makes it brighter, not bright.
Ayew is one of the brighter points of the season. As is Veretout, as are Lescott and Gana recently. As was Amavi earlier.
If you're going to argue points that people haven't made, then it's probably a bit of a waste of your time.
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As for being a tired, old, brand.... how many people were saying that in 2010?
That's the problem with football - You are only as good as your results and unless you are Utd, Liverpool or Chelsea the notion of brand is a misnomer.
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What you also have to do is consider whether the ransom prices that you pay for players to "save" us actually will deliver improvement.
Bringing in players for the sake of it is no substitute for cool headed good judgement. As another poster put it very pithily, it could be like buying an expensive steak then boiling it and putting it into a trifle.
Yeah, let's wave the white flag then.
Its not about waving the flag, its about accepting that the risk is too high to warrant a spending spree such as Newcastle. If we plan right now, we will bounce back at the first attempt.
Will we? Do you really trust Lerner's Villa to get us straight back up on the basis that we're keep our pennies in our pocket in January to save for the summer? Really?
I am happy to wait and see what Hollis does over the course of the next few months. He is, at least, accepting that we are well and truly up shit creek this season and we need to prepare for next year.
If he is allowed to make the structural changes we need, then yes I believe we will bounce straight back.
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It's hard to reasonably argue that the new signings and Okore have been bright spots this season when we have 12 points and are 10 from safety. The table doesn't really lie does it. We've looked poor all across the park and a lot of people are showing a lot of goodwill and giving a grace period to the new players, because they are young and adapting to a different league. By and large though they haven't been very good. The results tell the truth of the matter.
In a sea of black, anything that's a shade of grey is a bright spot.
Players looking like they were worth the money we paid for them isn't better than them looking as hopeless as Agbonlahor or s_h's latest hero N'Zogbia? And I'm deluded?
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Ayew is hit and miss even though he seems to be one of the better ones.
Oh, so it is possible after all to say that some things are better than others?
You trying to back up Denmark's suggestion that we've had bright spots this season, because I'm not going to agree with that, you know that don't you? It's been bloody woeful and well you know it.
Surely you can see that brighter isn't the same as bright, can't you?
If you're in a dark room and you switch your phone on, that makes it brighter, not bright.
Ayew is one of the brighter points of the season. As is Veretout, as are Lescott and Gana recently. As was Amavi earlier.
If you're going to argue points that people haven't made, then it's probably a bit of a waste of your time.
When the season started I actually liked the look of Amavi, but as the weeks went by he seemed to get worse which made me think he wasn't as good as I thought he was.
Anyway, the only bright spot I can think of is that we're not actually relegated yet (most on here seem to have given up on that one), and there still loads of games left. Win a couple of games on the spin and we could be right back in the mix again, yet our owners don't seem to think releasing a bit of money could help us stay up. This is unforgivable in my opinion.
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Of course we are not already relegated, but there is no-one who can't admit that the situation RIGHT NOW is that it it more than likely that we will be. We could sign Messi and he probably couldn't save us.
Spending the kind of money it will take to get anyone who might improve us to come right now, would be suicidal, and far more likely to end up with a Bolton situation. It is not 'throwing in the towel' to say that whether we end up in The Championship, or survive, we become a more attractive destination for the type of players we will need in the summer than we are now.
Do we have the baliffs knocking on the door looking to take away the furniture or something?
The reason we're not spending isn't because of the reasons the sly Fox comes out with, it's because the owner has washed his hands of the club. They're not protecting is for next season at all in my opinion and I don't trust them to invest sufficiently to get us back up next year either (if we go down).
What makes you so confident they're trying to secure our future?
The books are open at companies house.
We continue to be a loss making club, and Lerner has had to continue to put his own money in to prop us up.
If we go down, we will lose a lot of revenue, we cannot afford to be giving out more daft contracts. That is not to say we will not spend, but that it is foolish at this stage to start waving mega bucks under the noses of the average mercenaries looking for a last big payday. We have just nearly got to the end of clearing those kind of dickheads out.
If we can get the right players at the right price, I believe we will.
As for buying Championship players now - what if the miracle does happen? I think they are dead right to believe that the summer is a better time for us to spend. We will know what we are buying for, & how much money we have, as well as being more attractive to our potential targets.
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Win a couple of games on the spin and we could be right back in the mix again, yet our owners don't seem to think releasing a bit of money could help us stay up. This is unforgivable in my opinion.
I genuinely don't know who you think would come.
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Ayew is hit and miss even though he seems to be one of the better ones.
Oh, so it is possible after all to say that some things are better than others?
You trying to back up Denmark's suggestion that we've had bright spots this season, because I'm not going to agree with that, you know that don't you? It's been bloody woeful and well you know it.
It's very flattering that you think I speak on behalf of a sovereign state, and the world's oldest direct line of descent monarchy, but I personally wouldn't be that presumptuous. Added to which I don't think more than a few hundred out of a population of 6M would actually give a shit.
Hmm, that's probably another indication of how low we've fallen.
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As for being a tired, old, brand.... how many people were saying that in 2010?
That's the problem with football - You are only as good as your results and unless you are Utd, Liverpool or Chelsea the notion of brand is a misnomer.
And our results have been left to slide like the rest of the club because our owner pulled away from his responsibilities. We haven't become a tired, old club at all. We've become a terribly mismanaged and neglected club. 6 years ago, people were raving about us, young, attacking players blah blah. Now were a butt of jokes. We haven't expected anything, other than the attention and professionalism this club deserves, which we haven't received.
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Win a couple of games on the spin and we could be right back in the mix again, yet our owners don't seem to think releasing a bit of money could help us stay up. This is unforgivable in my opinion.
I genuinely don't know who you think would come.
I think we employ people to acquire players. Well I'd hope we do anyway.
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It's hard to reasonably argue that the new signings and Okore have been bright spots this season when we have 12 points and are 10 from safety. The table doesn't really lie does it. We've looked poor all across the park and a lot of people are showing a lot of goodwill and giving a grace period to the new players, because they are young and adapting to a different league. By and large though they haven't been very good. The results tell the truth of the matter.
In a sea of black, anything that's a shade of grey is a bright spot.
Players looking like they were worth the money we paid for them isn't better than them looking as hopeless as Agbonlahor or s_h's latest hero N'Zogbia? And I'm deluded?
It's been a very, very dull bright spot in that case. I get what everyone is saying but the football has been atrocious and that includes on the whole the performances of the newer guys. If Hollis claim that we spent £23m net, which I don't believe, is true, then for £70m we've gotten a terrible deal with what we signed.
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As for being a tired, old, brand.... how many people were saying that in 2010?
That's the problem with football - You are only as good as your results and unless you are Utd, Liverpool or Chelsea the notion of brand is a misnomer.
And our results have been left to slide like the rest of the club because our owner pulled away from his responsibilities. We haven't become a tired, old club at all. We've become a terribly mismanaged and neglected club. 6 years ago, people were raving about us, young, attacking players blah blah. Now were a butt of jokes. We haven't expected anything, other than the attention and professionalism this club deserves, which we haven't received.
Ain't that the truth. And after 6 years of it we still have fans sticking up for them.
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Ayew is hit and miss even though he seems to be one of the better ones.
Oh, so it is possible after all to say that some things are better than others?
You trying to back up Denmark's suggestion that we've had bright spots this season, because I'm not going to agree with that, you know that don't you? It's been bloody woeful and well you know it.
Surely you can see that brighter isn't the same as bright, can't you?
If you're in a dark room and you switch your phone on, that makes it brighter, not bright.
Ayew is one of the brighter points of the season. As is Veretout, as are Lescott and Gana recently. As was Amavi earlier.
If you're going to argue points that people haven't made, then it's probably a bit of a waste of your time.
When the season started I actually liked the look of Amavi, but as the weeks went by he seemed to get worse which made me think he wasn't as good as I thought he was.
Anyway, the only bright spot I can think of is that we're not actually relegated yet (most on here seem to have given up on that one), and there still loads of games left. Win a couple of games on the spin and we could be right back in the mix again, yet our owners don't seem to think releasing a bit of money could help us stay up. This is unforgivable in my opinion.
Or maybe, Amavi, like Bertrand before him, came in playing like he normally does and got ground down by whatever the hell is going on at Bodymoor Heath.
Unless you thing that Bertrand arrived as a good player, because he came from Chelsea as Proper Premier League Player on Proper Premier League Wages. Then he gradually turned to shit for us because the portion of his wages we were paying weren't Proper Premier League Wages. Then he went to Southampton and was good again because they'd paid a Proper Premier League Player's Fee and were paying him Proper Premier League Wages again?
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Oh and whilst your actually interacting with me despite previously calling me odd, pathetic and swearing you'd never acknowledge my existence again is there any chance that you could actually be arsed enough to defend your usual standpoint and answer this question which you'v been ignoring since the end of November?
I'm behind you 100% with your anti Lerner stance but I still don't think we'll go down.
I've asked you this before, but I'll try again.
How much do you think Lerner should have continued to invest, bearing that the current tab is north of £250M?
Background info before answering.
1. Abramovich, a man who's worth around 10 times Lerner's personal net worth, put the best part of £1 billion into Chelsea over a 10 year period before pretty much calling a halt. They still spend plenty "net" but it's almost all covered by CL and associated TV income.
2. The Mansoors, who to all intents and purposes have limitless wealth, put the best part of £1.2 billion into Man City over a 5-6 year period before reigning in the chequebook. Again they spend plenty "net" but it's almost all covered by CL and associated TV income.
3. "Enough" or similar isn't an answer. A number be it £1 or £10 billion or anywhere in between.
Any chance of an answer?
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A few of Fox's comments were baffling and worrying:
Remi is happy with the quality of the squad (really?)
If we go down we need to make sure we keep the squad together (I was hoping for the exact opposite personally).
This is the squad that was 2-0 up against Leicester (FFS! How many points do you get for leading a game 2-0 and then losing 3-2?!).
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A few of Fox's comments were baffling and worrying:
Remi is happy with the quality of the squad (really?)
If we go down we need to make sure we keep the squad together (I was hoping for the exact opposite personally).
This is the squad that was 2-0 up against Leicester (FFS! How many points do you get for leading a game 2-0 and then losing 3-2?!).
Yep, he actually said those words.
He must think we were all born yesterday to suggest Garde is happy with that squad, and how he kept a straight face when he was boasting about 2-0 up at Leicester is beyond me. Fox is a joker.
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Oh and whilst your actually interacting with me despite previously calling me odd, pathetic and swearing you'd never acknowledge my existence again is there any chance that you could actually be arsed enough to defend your usual standpoint and answer this question which you'v been ignoring since the end of November?
I'm behind you 100% with your anti Lerner stance but I still don't think we'll go down.
I've asked you this before, but I'll try again.
How much do you think Lerner should have continued to invest, bearing that the current tab is north of £250M?
Background info before answering.
1. Abramovich, a man who's worth around 10 times Lerner's personal net worth, put the best part of £1 billion into Chelsea over a 10 year period before pretty much calling a halt. They still spend plenty "net" but it's almost all covered by CL and associated TV income.
2. The Mansoors, who to all intents and purposes have limitless wealth, put the best part of £1.2 billion into Man City over a 5-6 year period before reigning in the chequebook. Again they spend plenty "net" but it's almost all covered by CL and associated TV income.
3. "Enough" or similar isn't an answer. A number be it £1 or £10 billion or anywhere in between.
Any chance of an answer?
To be fair, if he doesn't want to answer he's under no obligation to.
I don't think continually bringing it up is going to change that.
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A few of Fox's comments were baffling and worrying:
Remi is happy with the quality of the squad (really?)
If we go down we need to make sure we keep the squad together (I was hoping for the exact opposite personally).
This is the squad that was 2-0 up against Leicester (FFS! How many points do you get for leading a game 2-0 and then losing 3-2?!).
Yep, he actually said those words.
He must think we were all born yesterday to suggest Garde is happy with that squad, and how he kept a straight face when he was boasting about 2-0 up at Leicester is beyond me. Fox is a joker.
So who are you then? The Penguin or Catwoman?
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The 2-0 up against Leicester is turning in to the 3-1 when we beat Liverpool before going on that horrendous run a few seasons ago. The exception, rather than the norm.
I think Remi is just trying to keep spirits up anyway, he knows very few new recruits will be joining of any substance, if any. He has got what he has got and has to work the miracle with Westwood, Richardson, Bacuna et al. It's better than him doing a Tim and announcing we are facked. He said this morning he Is thinking hard on how to maximise what we have.
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Oh and whilst your actually interacting with me despite previously calling me odd, pathetic and swearing you'd never acknowledge my existence again is there any chance that you could actually be arsed enough to defend your usual standpoint and answer this question which you'v been ignoring since the end of November?
I'm behind you 100% with your anti Lerner stance but I still don't think we'll go down.
I've asked you this before, but I'll try again.
How much do you think Lerner should have continued to invest, bearing that the current tab is north of £250M?
Background info before answering.
1. Abramovich, a man who's worth around 10 times Lerner's personal net worth, put the best part of £1 billion into Chelsea over a 10 year period before pretty much calling a halt. They still spend plenty "net" but it's almost all covered by CL and associated TV income.
2. The Mansoors, who to all intents and purposes have limitless wealth, put the best part of £1.2 billion into Man City over a 5-6 year period before reigning in the chequebook. Again they spend plenty "net" but it's almost all covered by CL and associated TV income.
3. "Enough" or similar isn't an answer. A number be it £1 or £10 billion or anywhere in between.
Any chance of an answer?
To be fair, if he doesn't want to answer he's under no obligation to.
I don't think continually bringing it up is going to change that.
Fair enough.
It just sticks in the craw that he'll keep on with the same old line, but refuse to answer what shouldn't actually be that difficult a question that would better explain his point of view.
Of course constantly avoiding a question does tend to suggest that the non-respondent maybe doesn't like the answer.
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The 2-0 up against Leicester is turning in to the 3-1 when we beat Liverpool before going on that horrendous run a few seasons ago. The exception, rather than the norm.
I think Remi is just trying to keep spirits up anyway, he knows very few new recruits will be joining of any substance, if any. He has got what he has got and has to work the miracle with Westwood, Richardson, Bacuna et al. It's better than him doing a Tim and announcing we are facked. He said this morning he Is thinking hard on how to maximise what we have.
Yeah that 3-1 at Liverpool was flogged to death wasn't it. They also went on a PR spree trying to get Westwood into the England squad right after that as well. I remember scratching my head thinking they were on another planet with that one.
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As regards being the biggest club in the second city, to most outside Brum it’s not the second city, it’s third or perhaps even fourth.
I think he's hinting at the size of the club by saying that. If people outside Brum are not aware of it doesn't make it untrue.
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As regards being the biggest club in the second city, to most outside Brum it’s not the second city, it’s third or perhaps even fourth.
I think he's hinting at the size of the club by saying that. If people outside Brum are not aware of it doesn't make it untrue.
Yes, huge catchment area, well known, virtually no competition. The ground, by and large looks fantastic. We have a youngish fan base. Training ground is fine. There's nothing old and tired about the club. It's just been very unprofessional, naïve, careless.
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As regards being the biggest club in the second city, to most outside Brum it’s not the second city, it’s third or perhaps even fourth.
I think he's hinting at the size of the club by saying that. If people outside Brum are not aware of it doesn't make it untrue.
Yes, huge catchment area, well known, virtually no competition. The ground, by and large looks fantastic. We have a youngish fan base. Training ground is fine. There's nothing old and tired about the club. It's just been very unprofessional, naïve, careless.
Yep, just been mismanaged, neglected, suffered from a criminal lack of investment and dare I say it, asset stripped.
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As regards being the biggest club in the second city, to most outside Brum it’s not the second city, it’s third or perhaps even fourth.
I think he's hinting at the size of the club by saying that. If people outside Brum are not aware of it doesn't make it untrue.
I’m in no way denying the heritage of the club and we are held in very good esteem over here for instance. In fact most Dutch football fans I have spoken to are shocked that a club of such heritage can be in such a dire position. However, I’ve heard this statement made before that we have some right to be better as we are the biggest club in the 2nd City, I find this a false narrative for a variety of reasons.
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What VID might also be entitled to include in his request for clarification from the buy-more-players massive is the impending sharp falls in the wealth of those who have bankrolled the bloated post-Sky game.
Chelsea is underpinned by Abramovich whose wealth is gas and oil generated. Oil is 60% lower than it was last year.
Ditto Man City and the Mansoors. Chinese investors anuses puckering at what the Chinese stock market is doing.
Ditto Man U and the Glazers looking at Wall St.
Arsenal Ditto.
Tottenham Ditto.
The world economy is entering a Bear market and Saunders Heroes and all the other throw-more-money-at-the-problem protesters are going to have their rage blown away by the gathering financial storm.
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As regards being the biggest club in the second city, to most outside Brum it’s not the second city, it’s third or perhaps even fourth.
I think he's hinting at the size of the club by saying that. If people outside Brum are not aware of it doesn't make it untrue.
Yes, huge catchment area, well known, virtually no competition. The ground, by and large looks fantastic. We have a youngish fan base. Training ground is fine. There's nothing old and tired about the club. It's just been very unprofessional, naïve, careless.
Yep, just been mismanaged, neglected, suffered from a criminal lack of investment and dare I say it, asset stripped.
Go on then, explain that one, if you won't answer the other question.
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It's not about heritage Neil. I deliberately avoided brining up the past as it really does have little to do with this generation. Being the biggest club in such a huge catchment areas offers us a lot of benefits over other clubs that we should be exploiting. We haven't. In their own words the growth of the club has been one of the poorest in the Premier League since it's inception. First we had Mr Cornershop running us like his own small time little fiefdom and now we have Randy, who came in and tossed a bit of moolah around with absolutely nothing to hold it all up. We have a lot going for us, we need clever people, indeed clever business men to exploit it. We haven't as of yet.
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Of course we are not already relegated, but there is no-one who can't admit that the situation RIGHT NOW is that it it more than likely that we will be. We could sign Messi and he probably couldn't save us.
Spending the kind of money it will take to get anyone who might improve us to come right now, would be suicidal, and far more likely to end up with a Bolton situation. It is not 'throwing in the towel' to say that whether we end up in The Championship, or survive, we become a more attractive destination for the type of players we will need in the summer than we are now.
Do we have the baliffs knocking on the door looking to take away the furniture or something?
The reason we're not spending isn't because of the reasons the sly Fox comes out with, it's because the owner has washed his hands of the club. They're not protecting is for next season at all in my opinion and I don't trust them to invest sufficiently to get us back up next year either (if we go down).
What makes you so confident they're trying to secure our future?
The books are open at companies house.
We continue to be a loss making club, and Lerner has had to continue to put his own money in to prop us up.
If we go down, we will lose a lot of revenue, we cannot afford to be giving out more daft contracts. That is not to say we will not spend, but that it is foolish at this stage to start waving mega bucks under the noses of the average mercenaries looking for a last big payday. We have just nearly got to the end of clearing those kind of dickheads out.
If we can get the right players at the right price, I believe we will.
As for buying Championship players now - what if the miracle does happen? I think they are dead right to believe that the summer is a better time for us to spend. We will know what we are buying for, & how much money we have, as well as being more attractive to our potential targets.
I'm sure there are plenty on here who have far more knowledge than me of how finances work, so could someone please explain how we are still a loss making club? The wage bill must have reduced dramatically over the past few years, so where is the rest of the money going? What level of losses are we talking about?
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I think we are gong down and I wouldn't spend a penny in this window, unless a striker was available at a value for money price or loan
We don't even know if Remi will still be here in the close season so I'd wait and take stock try and rebuild with a manager to take us forward next season hopefully Remi
still don't think we should throw on the towel mind, try and win every game obviously and see if things change, but it's very unlikely
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However, I’ve heard this statement made before that we have some right to be better as we are the biggest club in the 2nd City, I find this a false narrative for a variety of reasons.
You can dispute about what we have a 'right' to quite easily, as I don't really see we have a right to anything.
But the second point isn't really something to have an opinion on or a dispute about. Somebody might think that the capital of Australia is Sydney, it doesn't mean that it is.
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
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What VID might also be entitled to include in his request for clarification from the buy-more-players massive is the impending sharp falls in the wealth of those who have bankrolled the bloated post-Sky game.
Chelsea is underpinned by Abramovich whose wealth is gas and oil generated. Oil is 60% lower than it was last year.
Ditto Man City and the Mansoors. Chinese investors anuses puckering at what the Chinese stock market is doing.
Ditto Man U and the Glazers looking at Wall St.
Arsenal Ditto.
Tottenham Ditto.
The world economy is entering a Bear market and Saunders Heroes and all the other throw-more-money-at-the-problem protesters are going to have their rage blown away by the gathering financial storm.
You only have to look at who has won the Premier League to see that Brian. Manchester United, Arsenal and then three who have simply bought the title - Blackburn, Chelsea and Manchester City.
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It's not about heritage Neil. I deliberately avoided brining up the past as it really does have little to do with this generation. Being the biggest club in such a huge catchment areas offers us a lot of benefits over other clubs that we should be exploiting. We haven't. In their own words the growth of the club has been one of the poorest in the Premier League since it's inception. First we had Mr Cornershop running us like his own small time little fiefdom and now we have Randy, who came in and tossed a bit of moolah around with absolutely nothing to hold it all up. We have a lot going for us, we need clever people, indeed clever business men to exploit it. We haven't as of yet.
Europe is littered with clubs who should be bigger than they are; Hertha Berlin, Eintracht Frankfurt, SV Hamburg and Napoli, to name but a few. Should we be in better shape than we are right now, damn right we should be? Do we have the right people to address the mistakes that have led us to where we are; in some cases no, but in Hollis we are going to have to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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I think we are gong down and I wouldn't spend a penny in this window, unless a striker was available at a value for money price or loan
We don't even know if Remi will still be here in the close season so I'd wait and take stock try and rebuild with a manager to take us forward next season hopefully Remi
still don't think we should throw on the towel mind, try and win every game obviously and see if things change, but it's very unlikely
My plan for the window would have been to buy a goalkeeper and then get the best midfielder and striker we could possibly get on loan. I fully accept that the latter two would have probably depended on Agbonlahor and N'Zogbia in particular moving on.
I still have hope for the window though. It might be that some targets are weighing up their options and will be brought in just before the window "slams shut" (Jim White, Sky Sports).
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It's not about heritage Neil. I deliberately avoided brining up the past as it really does have little to do with this generation. Being the biggest club in such a huge catchment areas offers us a lot of benefits over other clubs that we should be exploiting. We haven't. In their own words the growth of the club has been one of the poorest in the Premier League since it's inception. First we had Mr Cornershop running us like his own small time little fiefdom and now we have Randy, who came in and tossed a bit of moolah around with absolutely nothing to hold it all up. We have a lot going for us, we need clever people, indeed clever business men to exploit it. We haven't as of yet.
Europe is littered with clubs who should be bigger than they are; Hertha Berlin, Eintracht Frankfurt, SV Hamburg and Napoli, to name but a few. Should we be in better shape than we are right now, damn right we should be? Do we have the right people to address the mistakes that have led us to where we are; in some cases no, but in Hollis we are going to have to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Pendant alert - Napoli are currently top of Serie A aren't they?
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However, I’ve heard this statement made before that we have some right to be better as we are the biggest club in the 2nd City, I find this a false narrative for a variety of reasons.
You can dispute about what we have a 'right' to quite easily, as I don't really see we have a right to anything.
But the second point isn't really something to have an opinion on or a dispute about. Somebody might think that the capital of Australia is Sydney, it doesn't mean that it is.
My point exactly. I didn't see the relevance of some people not knowing it's the second city.
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
So we're not talking massive losses on the scale of Bolton then? Again, I'm no financial expert, but surely there is some wriggle room to bring some players in?
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It's not about heritage Neil. I deliberately avoided brining up the past as it really does have little to do with this generation. Being the biggest club in such a huge catchment areas offers us a lot of benefits over other clubs that we should be exploiting. We haven't. In their own words the growth of the club has been one of the poorest in the Premier League since it's inception. First we had Mr Cornershop running us like his own small time little fiefdom and now we have Randy, who came in and tossed a bit of moolah around with absolutely nothing to hold it all up. We have a lot going for us, we need clever people, indeed clever business men to exploit it. We haven't as of yet.
Europe is littered with clubs who should be bigger than they are; Hertha Berlin, Eintracht Frankfurt, SV Hamburg and Napoli, to name but a few. Should we be in better shape than we are right now, damn right we should be? Do we have the right people to address the mistakes that have led us to where we are; in some cases no, but in Hollis we are going to have to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Pendant alert - Napoli are currently top of Serie A aren't they?
They are, but historically they have under-performed and have even been relegated into the lower leagues - Can I swap my choice to Banik Ostrava instead?
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
As an addition, to show where we are right now
2014/15 Revenue E148.8m Wages £65.1m
2013/14 Revenue E133.0m Wages £69.3m Posted a loss of £3.9m
In 2009/10 our revenue was 13m euros higher than Evertons, fast forward to last season and our revenue was now 17m euros lower than Evertons. A 30m Euro swing, showing how poorly we've done behind the scenes.
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It's not about heritage Neil. I deliberately avoided brining up the past as it really does have little to do with this generation. Being the biggest club in such a huge catchment areas offers us a lot of benefits over other clubs that we should be exploiting. We haven't. In their own words the growth of the club has been one of the poorest in the Premier League since it's inception. First we had Mr Cornershop running us like his own small time little fiefdom and now we have Randy, who came in and tossed a bit of moolah around with absolutely nothing to hold it all up. We have a lot going for us, we need clever people, indeed clever business men to exploit it. We haven't as of yet.
Europe is littered with clubs who should be bigger than they are; Hertha Berlin, Eintracht Frankfurt, SV Hamburg and Napoli, to name but a few. Should we be in better shape than we are right now, damn right we should be? Do we have the right people to address the mistakes that have led us to where we are; in some cases no, but in Hollis we are going to have to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Pendant alert - Napoli are currently top of Serie A aren't they?
They are, but historically they have under-performed and have even been relegated into the lower leagues - Can I swap my choice to Banik Ostrava instead?
I was joking about Napoli. Went on holiday to that region last summer and it seemed like a club with a big catchment area, who apart from when a certain cheating little Argentinian was there, haven't achieved too much. Banik Ostrava - there is a name from the past!
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
So we're not talking massive losses on the scale of Bolton then? Again, I'm no financial expert, but surely there is some wriggle room to bring some players in?
Since our £3.9m loss we've lowered the wage bill by £4m and improved our turnover by £12m.
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
Which would probably equate to the net spend in the last transfer window, with a bit left for a rainy day (this window).
The question is, do you spend it now on a couple of better quality players (if available) or save it for more lesser quality players better suited to get us out of the Championship. Do you gamble now at high risk of not saving us from relegation or go for the lower risk at the end of the season.
I don't know as I do not how it all pans out regarding players wages, contracts, cash in hand. It would be easy for me to say spend £20m on players but I do not know what financial effect that would have on us. If I was to ignore the latter point it would be called 'taking a blinkered view '. Football fans are very good at that.
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
So we're not talking massive losses on the scale of Bolton then? Again, I'm no financial expert, but surely there is some wriggle room to bring some players in?
Only because the debts we have racked up have been converted to equity by Lerner. Any actual write off is now dependent on a sales price.
It's basically the same deal as the Bolton owner has offered to a potential buyer, just that Lerner has done it up front, the Bolton guy was waiting to see if someone would take the club as was and repay the debts. All swings and roundabouts unless there's some clever tax wheeze in having debt repaid v a higher sales price.
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
As an addition, to show where we are right now
2014/15 Revenue E148.8m Wages £65.1m
2013/14 Revenue E133.0m Wages £69.3m Posted a loss of £3.9m
In 2009/10 our revenue was 13m euros higher than Evertons, fast forward to last season and our revenue was now 17m euros lower than Evertons. A 30m Euro swing, showing how poorly we've done behind the scenes.
No doubt we have been poor behind the scenes (stand up a certain Paul Faulkner who seems to have been forgotten in all this), but competition money factor into that as well though wouldn't it? They have finished higher in the league than us and have featured in European competition.
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As regards being the biggest club in the second city, to most outside Brum it’s not the second city, it’s third or perhaps even fourth.
I think he's hinting at the size of the club by saying that. If people outside Brum are not aware of it doesn't make it untrue.
Let's just say biggest club between London and Manchester!
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
So we're not talking massive losses on the scale of Bolton then? Again, I'm no financial expert, but surely there is some wriggle room to bring some players in?
Only because the debts we have racked up have been converted to equity by Lerner. Any actual write off is now dependent on a sales price.
It's basically the same deal as the Bolton owner has offered to a potential buyer, just that Lerner has done it up front, the Bolton guy was waiting to see if someone would take the club as was and repay the debts. All swings and roundabouts unless there's some clever tax wheeze in having debt repaid v a higher sales price.
Only some of them. The last accounts showed we still owed Lerner over 80 million including loan interest.
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
So we're not talking massive losses on the scale of Bolton then? Again, I'm no financial expert, but surely there is some wriggle room to bring some players in?
I have not said, and nor have they, that we can't bring players in, just that we are not going to do it by throwing stupid wages & contracts at players out of desperation.
The club are in talks with several players. There is more than wriggle room, but if the only way to get players in is to throw stupid money at it, they are not going to do that.
As a club we have gone through hell to try & get solvent. This would be the worst possible moment to reverse that.
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
So we're not talking massive losses on the scale of Bolton then? Again, I'm no financial expert, but surely there is some wriggle room to bring some players in?
I have not said, and nor have they, that we can't bring players in, just that we are not going to do it by throwing stupid wages & contracts at players out of desperation.
The club are in talks with several players. There is more than wriggle room, but if the only way to get players in is to throw stupid money at it, they are not going to do that.
As a club we have gone through hell to try & get solvent. This would be the worst possible moment to reverse that.
Our immediate priority should be to stay in the PL.
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
So we're not talking massive losses on the scale of Bolton then? Again, I'm no financial expert, but surely there is some wriggle room to bring some players in?
I have not said, and nor have they, that we can't bring players in, just that we are not going to do it by throwing stupid wages & contracts at players out of desperation.
The club are in talks with several players. There is more than wriggle room, but if the only way to get players in is to throw stupid money at it, they are not going to do that.
As a club we have gone through hell to try & get solvent. This would be the worst possible moment to reverse that.
Our immediate priority should be to stay in the PL.
SH you talk about a couple of wins bringing us back into it and you would be right.....if non of the teams above us picked up points. Im sorry but you need to accept (barring an escape of Shawshank proportions)we are down. I would look at it like this; We could maybe spend 10m on a striker now, someone like maybe Asamoah Gyan. He would come and want 100k per week which we could pay him. He would also probably want 5m release clause and be off in the summer having maybe won us 6-7points and cost us 10-15m in wages and fees. Ultimately we would still most probably be down.
Alternatively we could keep that 10m, scout young players not quite ready for the top table and pay a fair price for them in the summer ---players like Zaha or that Demauri Gray. Build them into our long term plans, stick in some heavy release clauses etc.
I think what our board is trying to say is we need to break the cycle and change the entire ethos of the club. Clean the decks, get the fundamentals right and come back in a years time
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The teams above us could easily go on a losing streak of 3, 4 games, take your pick, so it's not beyond reality to suggest a couple of wins could see us right back in the mix again.
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
So we're not talking massive losses on the scale of Bolton then? Again, I'm no financial expert, but surely there is some wriggle room to bring some players in?
Only because the debts we have racked up have been converted to equity by Lerner. Any actual write off is now dependent on a sales price.
It's basically the same deal as the Bolton owner has offered to a potential buyer, just that Lerner has done it up front, the Bolton guy was waiting to see if someone would take the club as was and repay the debts. All swings and roundabouts unless there's some clever tax wheeze in having debt repaid v a higher sales price.
Only some of them. The last accounts showed we still owed Lerner over 80 million including loan interest.
I might be wrong here, but those accounts were issued last spring and covered the 2013/14 season.
The last trench of debt to equity conversion was done in December 2014, so will first be reflected in the coming set of accounts.
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
So we're not talking massive losses on the scale of Bolton then? Again, I'm no financial expert, but surely there is some wriggle room to bring some players in?
Only because the debts we have racked up have been converted to equity by Lerner. Any actual write off is now dependent on a sales price.
It's basically the same deal as the Bolton owner has offered to a potential buyer, just that Lerner has done it up front, the Bolton guy was waiting to see if someone would take the club as was and repay the debts. All swings and roundabouts unless there's some clever tax wheeze in having debt repaid v a higher sales price.
Only some of them. The last accounts showed we still owed Lerner over 80 million including loan interest.
I might be wrong here, but those accounts were issued last spring and covered the 2013/14 season.
The last trench of debt to equity conversion was done in December 2014, so will first be reflected in the coming set of accounts.
Hope those dates tie in, so you expect the next set of accounts, which I think are due out soon, to show we don't owe Lerner/his parent company a penny?
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Spent too much money, not integrated foreign players, falling behind other clubs on the business side.
I find that very depressing to read, as I think they still miss the point.
Hiring the right football manager has been the problem - a club in crisis? Hire a manager with a track record to galvanise/stabilise the team.
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
So we're not talking massive losses on the scale of Bolton then? Again, I'm no financial expert, but surely there is some wriggle room to bring some players in?
Only because the debts we have racked up have been converted to equity by Lerner. Any actual write off is now dependent on a sales price.
It's basically the same deal as the Bolton owner has offered to a potential buyer, just that Lerner has done it up front, the Bolton guy was waiting to see if someone would take the club as was and repay the debts. All swings and roundabouts unless there's some clever tax wheeze in having debt repaid v a higher sales price.
Only some of them. The last accounts showed we still owed Lerner over 80 million including loan interest.
I might be wrong here, but those accounts were issued last spring and covered the 2013/14 season.
The last trench of debt to equity conversion was done in December 2014, so will first be reflected in the coming set of accounts.
Hope those dates tie in, so you expect the next set of accounts, which I think are due out soon, to show we don't owe Lerner/his parent company a penny?
Pretty much yes. At that last debt conversion, there was some pretty blunt statement about this was the last £90M outstanding. Around the same time there was something from Robin Russell along the lines of the club being pretty much self sufficient for day to day operations.
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Pretty much yes. At that last debt conversion, there was some pretty blunt statement about this was the last £90M outstanding. Around the same time there was something from Robin Russell along the lines of the club being pretty much self sufficient for day to day operations.
Just done some digging and this Guardian article http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/29/premier-league-finances-club-by-club from April 2015 states that 'Lerner wrote off £90m loans, leaving £86m still owed to him'. I'm not convinced there has been any further conversion of loans to equity after the 90m mentioned here, I thought that was part of the reason we've been having problems selling the club?
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Spent too much money, not integrated foreign players, falling behind other clubs on the business side.
I find that very depressing to read, as I think they still miss the point.
Hiring the right football manager has been the problem - a club in crisis? Hire a manager with a track record to galvanise/stabilise the team.
Failure to properly accept the seriousness of the situation we have been in for a number of years now and remedy it with a manager proven in those type of situations has been the problem.
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
Which would probably equate to the net spend in the last transfer window, with a bit left for a rainy day (this window).
The question is, do you spend it now on a couple of better quality players (if available) or save it for more lesser quality players better suited to get us out of the Championship. Do you gamble now at high risk of not saving us from relegation or go for the lower risk at the end of the season.
I don't know as I do not how it all pans out regarding players wages, contracts, cash in hand. It would be easy for me to say spend £20m on players but I do not know what financial effect that would have on us. If I was to ignore the latter point it would be called 'taking a blinkered view '. Football fans are very good at that.
No because the season we made a £3.9m loss we spent around £20m on players net in the summer. So since then, wages have lowered, net spending has lowered and turnover has risen.
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Tom, I believe that for the 2013/14 season we lost £3.9m. The wage bill has continued to drop since then and the turnover has continued to rise so i'd expect that we currently run at a profit not a loss, albeit a small one.
As an addition, to show where we are right now
2014/15 Revenue E148.8m Wages £65.1m
2013/14 Revenue E133.0m Wages £69.3m Posted a loss of £3.9m
In 2009/10 our revenue was 13m euros higher than Evertons, fast forward to last season and our revenue was now 17m euros lower than Evertons. A 30m Euro swing, showing how poorly we've done behind the scenes.
No doubt we have been poor behind the scenes (stand up a certain Paul Faulkner who seems to have been forgotten in all this), but competition money factor into that as well though wouldn't it? They have finished higher in the league than us and have featured in European competition.
Yes for sure, but not £30m euros worth. Everton share a city with one of the most famous clubs in the world and are within a short range of the two Manchester clubs. We really should not be that far behind turnover wise than Everton with the broad, primarily uncontested landscape we should be growing in.
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In both of the last 2 seasons Everton received approx £12.5m more than us in PL prize money.
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In both of the last 2 seasons Everton received approx £12.5m more than us in PL prize money.
Which begs the question are we a football club with a business attached or vice versa. The ire of fans at meetings such as last nights is probably due to their belief that we are the former and getting increasingly frustrated at the business speak they had to endure.
If we were successful on the field the business side takes care of itself as the example of Everton illustrates. Full grounds = more revenue. Higher league postions =more revenue.
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Of course we are not already relegated, but there is no-one who can't admit that the situation RIGHT NOW is that it it more than likely that we will be. We could sign Messi and he probably couldn't save us.
Spending the kind of money it will take to get anyone who might improve us to come right now, would be suicidal, and far more likely to end up with a Bolton situation. It is not 'throwing in the towel' to say that whether we end up in The Championship, or survive, we become a more attractive destination for the type of players we will need in the summer than we are now.
Do we have the baliffs knocking on the door looking to take away the furniture or something?
The reason we're not spending isn't because of the reasons the sly Fox comes out with, it's because the owner has washed his hands of the club. They're not protecting is for next season at all in my opinion and I don't trust them to invest sufficiently to get us back up next year either (if we go down).
What makes you so confident they're trying to secure our future?
The books are open at companies house.
We continue to be a loss making club, and Lerner has had to continue to put his own money in to prop us up.
If we go down, we will lose a lot of revenue, we cannot afford to be giving out more daft contracts. That is not to say we will not spend, but that it is foolish at this stage to start waving mega bucks under the noses of the average mercenaries looking for a last big payday. We have just nearly got to the end of clearing those kind of dickheads out.
If we can get the right players at the right price, I believe we will.
As for buying Championship players now - what if the miracle does happen? I think they are dead right to believe that the summer is a better time for us to spend. We will know what we are buying for, & how much money we have, as well as being more attractive to our potential targets.
I'm sure there are plenty on here who have far more knowledge than me of how finances work, so could someone please explain how we are still a loss making club? The wage bill must have reduced dramatically over the past few years, so where is the rest of the money going? What level of losses are we talking about?
Expences are higher than revenues it was only 3.9 million May 2014 we lost 51.8 million the year before which was when the hit was taken on a lot of player contracts. I guess we will break even small loss 2015.
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There's such huge irony in us finally getting out of the first financial mess to be relegated and not now enjoy fully the benefits afforded to a PL club.
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In both of the last 2 seasons Everton received approx £12.5m more than us in PL prize money.
So that leaves us with around a £10m shortfall compared to Evertons turnover. More surprising is a complete nothing club like Southampton now have a higher turnover than us.
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In both of the last 2 seasons Everton received approx £12.5m more than us in PL prize money.
Which begs the question are we a football club with a business attached or vice versa. The ire of fans at meetings such as last nights is probably due to their belief that we are the former and getting increasingly frustrated at the business speak they had to endure.
If we were successful on the field the business side takes care of itself as the example of Everton illustrates. Full grounds = more revenue. Higher league postions =more revenue.
I think the latter is becoming more important than the former.
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In both of the last 2 seasons Everton received approx £12.5m more than us in PL prize money.
So that leaves us with around a £10m shortfall compared to Evertons turnover. More surprising is a complete nothing club like Southampton
now have a higher turnover than us.
No way Southampton can be compared to Everton
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In both of the last 2 seasons Everton received approx £12.5m more than us in PL prize money.
So that leaves us with around a £10m shortfall compared to Evertons turnover. More surprising is a complete nothing club like Southampton now have a higher turnover than us.
According to reports from both clubs, turnover in 2014 was Southampton £106m, us £117m.
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In both of the last 2 seasons Everton received approx £12.5m more than us in PL prize money.
So that leaves us with around a £10m shortfall compared to Evertons turnover. More surprising is a complete nothing club like Southampton now have a higher turnover than us.
According to reports from both clubs, turnover in 2014 was Southampton £106m, us £117m.
2014/15 list on the deloitte website shows them as 149.5m Euros and us at 148.8m Euros.
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It's down to them receiving £14m more than us in prize money last season, so while it's crap, it's hardly surprising.
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Were Fox and Hollis sat together?
Foxhollis a suburb of Birmingham all together in one place!
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Pretty much yes. At that last debt conversion, there was some pretty blunt statement about this was the last £90M outstanding. Around the same time there was something from Robin Russell along the lines of the club being pretty much self sufficient for day to day operations.
Just done some digging and this Guardian article http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/29/premier-league-finances-club-by-club from April 2015 states that 'Lerner wrote off £90m loans, leaving £86m still owed to him'. I'm not convinced there has been any further conversion of loans to equity after the 90m mentioned here, I thought that was part of the reason we've been having problems selling the club?
That must be the one I'm thinking off. My memory is obviously not what it was.
45 years old.
Doctor tells me I've got the knees of a 70 year-old earlier in the week.
Now it appears that I'm developing the memory of a 90 year old.
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Ayew is hit and miss even though he seems to be one of the better ones.
Oh, so it is possible after all to say that some things are better than others?
You trying to back up Denmark's suggestion that we've had bright spots this season, because I'm not going to agree with that, you know that don't you? It's been bloody woeful and well you know it.
It's very flattering that you think I speak on behalf of a sovereign state, and the world's oldest direct line of descent monarchy, but I personally wouldn't be that presumptuous. Added to which I don't think more than a few hundred out of a population of 6M would actually give a shit.
Hmm, that's probably another indication of how low we've fallen.
If Troooels Hartmann agrees with you that's good enough for me.
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Something is rotten in the state of Denmark/Foxhollis
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It's down to them receiving £14m more than us in prize money last season, so while it's crap, it's hardly surprising.
They had the great sell-off of summer 2014 too (Lallana, Lovren, Lambert and possibly other L-shaped players to L-iverpool).
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Something is rotten in the state of Denmark/Foxhollis
Something rotten in the state of Denmark?
Probably, but that's 21st century western democracies for you. Either that or eating 3 apples this afternoon after meatballs for lunch was not a good idea.
Something rotten in Foxhollis?
I can't remember, is that blose territory?
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It's now a Lidl.
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Something is rotten in the state of Denmark/Foxhollis
Something rotten in the state of Denmark?
Probably, but that's 21st century western democracies for you. Either that or eating 3 apples this afternoon after meatballs for lunch was not a good idea.
Something rotten in Foxhollis?
I can't remember, is that blose territory?
Yes and there is Mecca Bulshit Bingo Hall just been built.
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It's down to them receiving £14m more than us in prize money last season, so while it's crap, it's hardly surprising.
I'd like to think given the massive head start on them and with them being declared bankrupt twice in the last few years that If we had been run anywhere near decent we should be head and shoulders above them.
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It's down to them receiving £14m more than us in prize money last season, so while it's crap, it's hardly surprising.
They had the great sell-off of summer 2014 too (Lallana, Lovren, Lambert and possibly other L-shaped players to L-iverpool).
.
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It's down to them receiving £14m more than us in prize money last season, so while it's crap, it's hardly surprising.
They had the great sell-off of summer 2014 too (Lallana, Lovren, Lambert and possibly other L-shaped players to L-iverpool).
Player sales aren't included in turnover for these purposes.
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Welcome back DC5.
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Win a couple of games on the spin and we could be right back in the mix again, yet our owners don't seem to think releasing a bit of money could help us stay up. This is unforgivable in my opinion.
I genuinely don't know who you think would come.
I think we employ people to acquire players. Well I'd hope we do anyway.
I'm sure we do... But, unless Derren Brown's involved, I fail to see how they can force the players we need to come to Aston Villa.
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Welcome back DC5.
Thank you, Ronshirt. I just called in to see what people thought of the AVST AGM. I attended the meeting last year and, in comparison, Tom Fox appears just as clueless as he was then. Fox seems to be in total awe of Paddy Riley. I really hope that Steve Hollis sacks both of them.
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Welcome back DC5.
Thank you, Ronshirt. I just called in to see what people thought of the AVST AGM. I attended the meeting last year and, in comparison, Tom Fox appears just as clueless as he was then. Fox seems to be in total awe of Paddy Riley. I really hope that Steve Hollis sacks both of them.
Why?
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I hope I'm wrong but Tom Fox seems out of his depth, wouldn't be surprised if he is the next one out the door, found all his answers to be unconvincing. I hope this new bloke gets some order into the place.
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I agree, Tom Fox has been abysmal since he arrived.
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Lets face it the day we see the back of Lerner , Fox etc can't come too soon. I have no idea if Hollis is any good or not but looking at the calibre of Lerner appointments to date doesn't give cause for optimism.
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I don't think Fox is the wrong man, but he's in the wrong job. Like others, he should be on the board but not running the show.
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I don't think Fox is the wrong man, but he's in the wrong job. Like others, he should be on the board but not running the show.
I agree. Let him get on with his kit deals etc. But I cringe when I hear him talk about football.
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I don't think Fox is the wrong man, but he's in the wrong job. Like others, he should be on the board but not running the show.
I do think when he was appointed some of our fanbase were under the impression he'd actually been Arsenal Chief exec and he was a little down the food chain there.
I think he's been overpromoted, just like Faulkner was.
Talking of people with Arsenal connections, the person we really need is someone like David Dein as he realised at Arsenal the most important thing was to get a winning team and the rest would follow.
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I don't think Fox is the wrong man, but he's in the wrong job. Like others, he should be on the board but not running the show.
Talking of people with Arsenal connections, the person we really need is someone like David Dein as he realised at Arsenal the most important thing was to get a winning team and the rest would follow.
He did well at arsenal but I would argue that the team did not come first, only that they should not slip too far behind. Their first priority was to build a bigger ground to grow their support but not go into unmanageable debt. It was a long term plan that would lead to being able to invest more in players in the future than before. I think we are starting to see this now after they went through a period of not bringing in top players but those at a lower level and coaching them well.
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Win a couple of games on the spin and we could be right back in the mix again, yet our owners don't seem to think releasing a bit of money could help us stay up. This is unforgivable in my opinion.
I genuinely don't know who you think would come.
I think we employ people to acquire players. Well I'd hope we do anyway.
I'm sure we do... But, unless Derren Brown's involved, I fail to see how they can force the players we need to come to Aston Villa.
I would have thought a quality loan deal or two would have happened by now.
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Win a couple of games on the spin and we could be right back in the mix again, yet our owners don't seem to think releasing a bit of money could help us stay up. This is unforgivable in my opinion.
I genuinely don't know who you think would come.
I think we employ people to acquire players. Well I'd hope we do anyway.
I'm sure we do... But, unless Derren Brown's involved, I fail to see how they can force the players we need to come to Aston Villa.
I would have thought a quality loan deal or two would have happened by now.
Good point.
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I agree, Tom Fox has been abysmal since he arrived.
Our team under Remi Garde has been showing green shoots of recovery. We are harder to beat. Our players are giving more effort.
It is absolutely criminal that Tom Fox has been talking as though the towel was thrown in weeks ago. We are Aston Villa, we should never be beaten until we are beaten fairly and squarely. Stick a goalscorer in that side on 1 January and we could be on 15-17 points today and getting back into the mix.
For me, relegation way too bad of a ting to say 'spending is too risky'. A loaned striker or a Charlie Austin with a relegation release fee would make such a difference right now.
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Charlie Austin was never going to join. Why on earth would a footballer who just spent the past season at the arse end of the table sign up for another round of it? He's on a very healthy contract that probably put a lot of teams off coupled with whatever QPR were asking for him in the summer. With the window winding down along with his contract he had the pick of the sides that showed any interest. He wasn't coming to us and only might of if we were outside the bottom three. And even then I doubt it.
There is no doubt we need a forward. I just don't know we will get one with the required quality right now and one that we haven't paid a fortune for. It's a shit situation to be in.
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Charlie Austin was never going to join. Why on earth would a footballer who just spent the past season at the arse end of the season sign up for another round of it? He's on a very healthy contract that probably put a lot of teams off coupled with whatever QPR were asking for him in the summer. With the window winding down along with his contract he had the pick of the sides that showed any interest. He wasn't coming to us and only might of if we were outside the bottom three. And even then I doubt it.
There is no doubt we need a forward. I just don't know we will get one with the required quality right now and one that we haven't paid a fortune for. It's a shit situation to be in.
totally agree
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I understand their points about getting players in at the moment but, having read the transcript, with the club in the position it is, I would like our leadership to have given it some Churchillian 'fight until the end' spirit.
What we actually got was a bit of moaning about the marketing shambles we are (clearly overlooking the fact that was Lerner's fault) and some stuff about how our new shirt deal is safe if we go down.
There was pretty much zero fight or passion in what they said, they've meekly just accepted it.
And well done whoever it was who told them not to call him a 'customer' too. Thats another distinction they have zero idea about.
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I've been given a bit of ITK about where some of the £60m went:
To Guzan B - £41.58 Wrigleys chewing gum; £3.88 tape measure (retractable).
To Richards M - £195.01 Bay Rum hair lotion; £39.95 Gentleman's hair brush.
To Senderos P - £164.42 I-Spy books.
To Bacuna L - £3097.65 Anti-Rictus treatment.
To Lescott A - £71.67 Star Trek seasons 1-7.
To Cissokho A - £189.56 Natonal Express.
To N'Zogbia C - £40,897.76 Next: £34,560.34 M+Co.
To Westwood A - £139.72 Complete Famous Five collection.
To Sanchez C - £4.99 Thriller CD by Michael Jackson.
To Grealish J - £538.787.04 Herbal Highs Birmingham.
To Agbonlahor G - £126.45 Gingster pasties; £37.23 baby wipes.
To Gestede R - £83.78 sleeping tablets.
To Sherwood T - £2,000,978.99 (deferred payment).
To Lambert P - £34,000,79.87 (deferred payment).
To Bent D - £19,800.978.01 (deferred payment).
To General Krulak - £89,785.86 nursing fees.
To Moore R - £569.84 consultancy fee.
The ITK doesn't know where the rest went he (or she) was only willing to let me know that it didn't go on either organisation or public relations.
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And well done whoever it was who told them not to call him a 'customer' too. Thats another distinction they have zero idea about.
I'm not saying that nobody at the club has referred to supporters as 'customers' before (I'd be amazed if Fox has never done that), but nobody did at that meeting.
Hollis said "customers" when talking about his previous business experience. Where he was dealing with customers not supporters.
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And well done whoever it was who told them not to call him a 'customer' too. Thats another distinction they have zero idea about.
I'm not saying that nobody at the club has referred to supporters as 'customers' before (I'd be amazed if Fox has never done that), but nobody did at that meeting.
Hollis said "customers" when talking about his previous business experience. Where he was dealing with customers not supporters.
it's quite a difference when explained in the correct context
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Point taken in that it wasn't said at the meeting but that's precisely the way they see us. These people just have no idea what it means to be a supporter (see previous "we're bottom of the league but look at our new shirt deal " thing just before Christmas).
We are basically screwed until Lerner sells up to someone who gives a fuck and has a brain.
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I don't disagree but is it really any different to how Levy sees Spurs fans, the board at Arsenal sees Arsenal fans etc etc? If things were going better it wouldn't matter what they saw us as. Put a good product on the pitch and a lot of minor issues disappear. Everything comes to the surface as an additional irritant when as we are bottom of the table miles from land, no paddle in sight, the hull letting in water at an increasing rate.
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Point taken in that it wasn't said at the meeting but that's precisely the way they see us. These people just have no idea what it means to be a supporter (see previous "we're bottom of the league but look at our new shirt deal " thing just before Christmas).
We are basically screwed until Lerner sells up to someone who gives a fuck and has a brain.
You're right, they have no clue about how a football fan feels about their club. Does anyone believe Lerner watches every Villa game from his secret bunker? Does anyone believe him and Hollis, a man who's only spent a few weeks at the club, were ''jumping around'' living every kick of the Wycombe game like he claims? It's all bull shit, fakely trying to connect with us but comes across completely like a 90 year old great granddad trying to be cool with his great grand children. Another reason I'd like a footballing man aboard, someone who you know feels the defeats with you somewhat.
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Welcome back DC5.
Thank you, Ronshirt. I just called in to see what people thought of the AVST AGM. I attended the meeting last year and, in comparison, Tom Fox appears just as clueless as he was then. Fox seems to be in total awe of Paddy Riley. I really hope that Steve Hollis sacks both of them.
Why?
Hollis said that the players hadn't been successfully integrated.
Paddy clearly has no successfully-integrated-o-meter option on his Playstation.
Why is he still working at the Club ?
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Welcome back DC5.
Thank you, Ronshirt. I just called in to see what people thought of the AVST AGM. I attended the meeting last year and, in comparison, Tom Fox appears just as clueless as he was then. Fox seems to be in total awe of Paddy Riley. I really hope that Steve Hollis sacks both of them.
Why?
Hollis said that the players hadn't been successfully integrated.
Paddy clearly has no successfully-integrated-o-meter option on his Playstation.
Why is he still working at the Club ?
He said that a few times, though I doubt if anyone actually in the room knew what he was on about. Just what the hell does 'intergrating the players at Bodymoor' actually mean?
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Welcome back DC5.
Thank you, Ronshirt. I just called in to see what people thought of the AVST AGM. I attended the meeting last year and, in comparison, Tom Fox appears just as clueless as he was then. Fox seems to be in total awe of Paddy Riley. I really hope that Steve Hollis sacks both of them.
Why?
Hollis said that the players hadn't been successfully integrated.
Paddy clearly has no successfully-integrated-o-meter option on his Playstation.
Why is he still working at the Club ?
He said that a few times, though I doubt if anyone actually in the room knew what he was on about. Just what the hell does 'intergrating the players at Bodymoor' actually mean?
In Veretout's case it would probably mean actually being spoken to instead of ignored for months. I wouldn't be surprised if all the French signings got the same treatment.
They were/are young, inexperienced and should have had the fathering treatment and an arm thrown around them, what it appears they got was being ignored and then singled out as the problem.
Look at Kmacs pathetic team selection and comments for further proof of what it must have been like behind the scenes. Not good enough, they are assets.
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Welcome back DC5.
Thank you, Ronshirt. I just called in to see what people thought of the AVST AGM. I attended the meeting last year and, in comparison, Tom Fox appears just as clueless as he was then. Fox seems to be in total awe of Paddy Riley. I really hope that Steve Hollis sacks both of them.
Why?
Hollis said that the players hadn't been successfully integrated.
Paddy clearly has no successfully-integrated-o-meter option on his Playstation.
Why is he still working at the Club ?
He said that a few times, though I doubt if anyone actually in the room knew what he was on about. Just what the hell does 'intergrating the players at Bodymoor' actually mean?
In Veretout's case it would probably mean actually being spoken to instead of ignored for months. I wouldn't be surprised if all the French signings got the same treatment.
They were/are young, inexperienced and should have had the fathering treatment and an arm thrown around them, what it appears they got was being ignored and then singled out as the problem.
Look at Kmacs pathetic team selection and comments for further proof of what it must have been like behind the scenes. Not good enough, they are assets.
agree totally , ajk , it was plain to see by anybody with the most basic of football knowledge , very embarrasing
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The fact that the new players weren't properly 'integrated' in the summer is actually shameful. 17 years after we left Angel and his poorly new-born languishing in a strange country where they didn't speak the lingo, you'd hope that things would've moved on.
If you're shipping in a load of kids from France and Spain who've never been here before, you'd really hope that someone somewhere along the line would have the emotional intelligence to make them feel a bit welcome. At least they could have modified the bantre.
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Welcome back DC5.
Thank you, Ronshirt. I just called in to see what people thought of the AVST AGM. I attended the meeting last year and, in comparison, Tom Fox appears just as clueless as he was then. Fox seems to be in total awe of Paddy Riley. I really hope that Steve Hollis sacks both of them.
Why?
A) Fox is not competent to be Villa CEO.
B) Riley has not had sufficient experience to be in charge of recruitment of players.
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I am prepared to accept Reilly is clueless - it wouldn't surprise me - the problem is that, if you look at the players he has brought in, they're actually not bad players. The problem has been that there was seemingly no attempt to integrate them.
That story about Sherwood not speaking to Veretout, for example. A 20 something kid moving to a foreign country, not knowing the language, ffs, the club should have been bending over backwards to help him settle, but instead, we get the manager just not speaking to him
Of all the signings last summer, Ilori and Crespo look like bizarre cheap gambles, and Gestede looks shit, but the rest of them are actually decent players.
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We still have not assembled a team that can score goals.
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We still have not assembled a team that can score goals.
True, but we've stopped losing every week which is a start.
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And we have stopped being the worst team in the Premiership. Yesterday proved that.
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And we have stopped being the worst team in the Premiership. Yesterday proved that.
But we're still comfortably bottom of the league in dire need of a striker.
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And we have stopped being the worst team in the Premiership. Yesterday proved that.
But we're still comfortably bottom of the league in dire need of a striker.
Stating the obvious, but if (massive if, I know) we could get a pin-sharp striker in we'd have a chance.
Alternatively, I wonder if Eric Black has a track record of improving strikers. I know bugger all about him, assuming his the one who scored against Real Madrid for Aberdeen in the Cup Winners Cup final of 1983.