Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: ozzjim on February 12, 2012, 07:43:20 PM
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We are 7 from the drop zone. But have some truly tough fixtures ahead, with the most crucial 2 surely our next 2 away at Blackburn and Wigan.
So - how many points do you give us, and how many do you think will be needed to keep us safe. I think we will get 37.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/predictor/default.stm
Wigan
Blackburn
Fulham (h)
Bolton (h)
Arsenal
Chelsea (h)
Liverpool
Stoke (h)
Man U
Sunderland (h)
West Brom
Spurs (h)
Norwich
I think tough due to our appalling home form. We need 7 from the next 4 IMO to ensure we survive. Then cobble another 4-5 points together. Over to you guys, where do you think we will end up.
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Fucks sake. Does this have to come up all the time?
Are we better than Bolton? Yes. Are we better than Wolves? Yes. Are we better than Wigan? Yes. Are we better than QPR? Yes. Are we better than Blackburn? Yes.
Are we going to get relegated? No. Is it a possibility? No, because there are at least five teams more shit than us.
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Like I said in the other thread, I don't think relegation would be that bad. There are some positives (if people give McLeish some positives, then anything is possible). We need a major revamp and I think dropping down would be a massive wakeup call to the smug board at least.
I don't want us to get relegated, but I'm at the stage where I'm not even enjoying our football and I'm actually ashamed to be a Villa fan, so I'm not going to feel any different if we drop down at this stage.
If he can't win any of the next 4, expect us to drop and we deserve to be relegated because we've been a disgrace to the game and its all down to the manager.
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Fucks sake. Does this have to come up all the time?
Are we better than Bolton? Yes. Are we better than Wolves? Yes. Are we better than Wigan? Yes. Are we better than QPR? Yes. Are we better than Blackburn? Yes.
Are we going to get relegated? No. Is it a possibility? No, because there are at least five teams more shit than us.
Which is exactly what the blose fans were saying at this point last season.....
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15th
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Fucks sake. Does this have to come up all the time?
Are we better than Bolton? Yes. Are we better than Wolves? Yes. Are we better than Wigan? Yes. Are we better than QPR? Yes. Are we better than Blackburn? Yes.
Are we going to get relegated? No. Is it a possibility? No, because there are at least five teams more shit than us.
It doesn't matter if we're "better". It's about results. We're probably better than a lot of teams above us, but as long as we keep aiming for draws and losing at home there's no reason we can't be dragged down. We are literally in the same exact position as Bloos last year.
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Leeds, West Ham and Newcastle both thought they were too good.
No one with six wins in 25 is too good.
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Fucks sake. Does this have to come up all the time?
Are we better than Bolton? Yes. Are we better than Wolves? Yes. Are we better than Wigan? Yes. Are we better than QPR? Yes. Are we better than Blackburn? Yes.
Are we going to get relegated? No. Is it a possibility? No, because there are at least five teams more shit than us.
Being less shit than other clubs is no guarantee of survival. Determination, team spirit, good motivation and management are as important.
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We have appointed a manager with a very good record in this area, let's not forget that.
Which I think was the reason behind the unrest during the summer.
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The problem is, we need to pick up as many points as possible in the next 4 games because if we come out of those games with say only a 5/6 point gap from the bottom 3 then he's going to be bricking it and revert to type by playing negatively in the other games for the fear of losing, were in deep shit I feel and it was so unavoidable.
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This why I said on the should AM be sacked thread, he has 4 games. Take 5 points or less from them and he's making it very hard to say anything other than go. Take 9+ and we are safe/almost safe with 9 matches to go. Which is exactly what he was employed to do this season.
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Can I just point out, after 25 games last season, Blues had 30 points. We have 28. With a better squad. Shit is not the word for the job he is doing. If they can drop from 30 at this point last season, we can from 28.
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Of course it is a possibility , just as it was last season.
We got away with it then, we may not this time.
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What would people choose:
Premier League with overpaid talentless arseholes like Warnock picking up more in a week than the vast majority of you would earn in a year and McLeish's anti football rubbish with Heskey being played ahead of Ireland and N'Zogbia or....
Championship with upcoming kids who actually play for the shirt and having an attack minded manager on board such as Kev Mac or Sid who knows how to use them effectively?
If we went down, I would buy a season ticket if it meant the latter. There's no value at Villa Park anymore. We haven't won a match since bonfire night. I don't come to watch other Premier League clubs play well or their flashy millionaires. I come to watch us play well and sometimes with McLeish's tactics we look like a League 1 outfit at best. He's holding us back and I don't want to endure this for 2 more years.
We also look behind the years. We need a new system where we keep hold of the ball like Swansea. I think we really need to aim for high posession in future. It may take a while to address but I think it would be worth it in the long run. We'll never get that under McLeish.
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I don't want us to get relegated, but I'm at the stage where I'm not even enjoying our football and I'm actually ashamed to be a Villa fan, so I'm not going to feel any different if we drop down at this stage.
See I don’t get this… what are you ashamed of?
I think it must be pretty shameful being a Liverpool fan at the moment.
But being ashamed of your team because they’re not playing very well seems utterly ridiculous.
If I were ashamed every time Villa played crap I’d have spent half my lifetime being ashamed.
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I'm more worried about AMC being with us next season.
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I think will get:
Wigan 1 pt (29 pts)
Blackburn 1 pt (30 pts)
Fulham (h) 1 pt (31 pts)
Bolton (h) 3 pts (34 pts)
Arsenal 0 pts (34 pts)
Chelsea (h) 1 pt (35 pts)
Liverpool 1 pt (36 pts)
Stoke (h) 1 pt (37 pts)
Man U 0 pt (37 pts)
Sunderland (h) 1 pt (38 pts)
West Brom 3 pts (41 pts)
Spurs (h) 1 pt (42 pts)
Norwich 3 pts (45 pts)
P 38 - W 9 - D 18 - L 11
45 points and we'll finish somewhere between 12th and 15th.
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I'm ashamed of the anti football bollocks that's associated with this club. I can't consider myself a proud villan with this going on. :-\
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I'm ashamed of the anti football bollocks that's associated with this club. I can't consider myself a proud villan with this going on. :-\
Troll
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If you desire Championship football that much, I know somewhere you can go to see it....Oh wait a minute, I'm just getting what's going on here.
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We won't go down.
McLeish may be god awful but he can at least beat relegation teams, we have beaten Wolves, Blackburn, Wigan and Bolton home and away this season.
In any case I reckon 35 or 36 points will keep you up this season.
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13 points from a possible 39 at home & only 14 goals scored = relegation fodder IMO
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Can I just point out, after 25 games last season, Blues had 30 points. We have 28. With a better squad. Shit is not the word for the job he is doing. If they can drop from 30 at this point last season, we can from 28.
Bugger that is sobering stuff. The next 4 games are make or break.
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It should be regarded as an important issue, but I get increasingly frustrated each time this topic gets posted, which is always around this time for the least 2 or 3 years.
We won't go down, the teams below us are far worse than us, and I will make a bold prediction and say that they will amass a much worse set of results than we will in the coming months.
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Can I just point out, after 25 games last season, Blues had 30 points. We have 28. With a better squad. Shit is not the word for the job he is doing. If they can drop from 30 at this point last season, we can from 28.
Bugger that is sobering stuff. The next 4 games are make or break.
Thats what i thought.
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Btw, if we extrapolate from our record so far this season, we'll get 9 wins, 15 draws and 14 losses - which means 42 points. I don't think that's entirely unrealistic. Even if today's performance was very poor, it's more likely a continuation of the pattern of performances like Spurs, Liverpool and Man Utd -- not a complete downturn in form.
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Next four league fixtures will make or break our season:
Villa:
Wigan (a), Blackburn (a), Fulham (h), Bolton (h)
Others in the mix:
West Brom:
Sunderland (h), Chelsea (h), Man Utd (a), Wigan (a)
QPR:
Fulham (h), Everton (h), Bolton (a), Liverpool (h)
Blackburn:
Man City (a), Villa (h), Wolves (a), Sunderland (h)
Wolves:
Newcastle (a), Fulham (a), Blackburn (h), Man Utd (h)
Bolton:
Chelsea (a), Man City (a), QPR (h), Villa (h)
Wigan:
Villa (h), Swansea (h), Norwich (a), WBA (h)
Trouble is we have only won SIX games this season:
Home against Blackburn, Wigan and Norwich.
Away against Bolton, Chelsea and Wolves.
Four of those against the current bottom four. Poor poor poor.
We're a tempting 16/1 with Willhill to be relegated.
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Can I just point out, after 25 games last season, Blues had 30 points. We have 28. With a better squad. Shit is not the word for the job he is doing. If they can drop from 30 at this point last season, we can from 28.
Bugger that is sobering stuff. The next 4 games are make or break.
Thats what i thought.
Oh fuck, that's horrible reading.
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Relegation is a possibility and I am like the rest of you very worried but I think we will be ok, we usually find an unexpected result or two a bit like Stoke and Chelsea away which gives us a cushion before the fuck ups that follow, we then win another (Wolves away) followed by more dross and on it goes.
Our superior goal difference is worth another point, we win 1 in 4 and I expect us to continue with that kind of form and end up about 13th/14th.
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There are far worse teams than us currently lower than we are. We'll be fine. Top half just like last season.
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Only problem is that we still have the dreaded month of March to get through...
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Us, Blackburn, Wigan and Wovles in 4 games time could either be right up close and personal, or we could be safe. HE can't get a second season surely.
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Are we going to get relegated? No. Is it a possibility? No, because there are at least five teams more shit than us.
My chest swells with pride at this.
'At least five teams more shit than us.'
William Mcgregor is known as 'Spinning Mcgregor' in Heaven these days.
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Are we going to get relegated? No. Is it a possibility? No, because there are at least five teams more shit than us.
My chest swells with pride at this.
'At least five teams more shit than us.'
William Mcgregor is known as 'Spinning Mcgregor' in Heaven these days.
Yeah it's great, to be in this position two years in a row is an utter disgrace. We are a shambles and I'm afraid after his interview today and the tactics on display Mcleish has to go, because he will not learn from his mistakes.
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I don't want us to get relegated, but I'm at the stage where I'm not even enjoying our football and I'm actually ashamed to be a Villa fan, so I'm not going to feel any different if we drop down at this stage.
Oh turn it fucking in.
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Ashamed to be a Villa fan? Never.
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There are far worse teams than us currently lower than we are. We'll be fine. Top half just like last season.
that's a bit far fetched imo, but not as Faulkners aim for top-8.. hilarious.
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There are far worse teams than us currently lower than we are. We'll be fine. Top half just like last season.
that's a bit far fetched imo, but not as Faulkners aim for top-8.. hilarious.
There are five worse teams than us. They are the ones currently below us.
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No chance of relegation. 5 teams on 21 points or less from 25 played. Teams will stay up on 34 points this season, which means we need just two wins. These will be easily achieved in the next four games.
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There are far worse teams than us currently lower than we are. We'll be fine. Top half just like last season.
that's a bit far fetched imo, but not as Faulkners aim for top-8.. hilarious.
I wouldn't worry too much about Faulkner, he couldn't organise a two car funeral.
He has all the footballing acumen of an empty crisp packet.
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The fact that, for the scond year running, we are looking nervously over our shoulders and comforting ourselves with the statement, 'there are 5 worse teams than us' makes me want to fucking weep !
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I'm actually ashamed to be a Villa fan
Your ashamed when we lose some games of football ?
I have never for a moment been ashamed to be a Villa fan. In 45 years I have done embarrassed, angry, end of my tether, pissed off, despairing, crying, sad, mad, but I have never ever done ashamed.
What's it like ?
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I think we'll be alright, but I can see us finishing 15th-16th.
Next few weeks crucial, and players are unavailable just when we need them: Keane goes soon, Clark out for a few weeks (big blow, was playing well), and probably Dunne also, following that injury.
We should be calling Delph back now, and hoping Herd is fit again very soon.
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How the fcuking hell have we ended up being relegation candidates so soon after being Champions League contenders? Our decline in the past 3 years is remarkable.
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Can I just point out, after 25 games last season, Blues had 30 points. We have 28. With a better squad. Shit is not the word for the job he is doing. If they can drop from 30 at this point last season, we can from 28.
Last year was mental at the bottom though and not convinced it is goin to be the same this year - Blues were relegated with 39 points which is extremely unusual.
After 25 games last season we had 28 points so we're in the same position, albeit the bottom three had more points last year.
We'll need about 35 this year to be safe I reckon. Even AM should be able to get 7 points from 13 games!? We'd need to do a Newcastle if we were to go down - they had 28 points after 26 games in 08/09 and finished with 34 - 6 points from 12 games!
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How the fcuking hell have we ended up being relegation candidates so soon after being Champions League contenders? Our decline in the past 3 years is remarkable.
It took Ellis five years to take us from champions of Europe to relegation. That was remarkable.
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It is frustrating for us to be in this position. Boofy infuriating in fact. That said, I can't see us being anyway close to going down come the end of the season.
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Wigan ,Blackburn and Bolton are the big fixtures win them and we will be ok ..my worry is AMC is going to continue where he left off tonight and try not to lose ...
Also we Keane going and Gabby injured we are pretty light on attackers.
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Ellis would have sacked Ekk by now. Better teams than us have been too good to go down, better than the ones around them, had crazy wins at top clubs, and gone down. Ekk has previous here, he is a skilled dropper, Randy and his poodle Faulk know nothing about football, and the manager they hired knows precious little if they followed his game plan well today!!!
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ELLIS did'nt make us Champions Of Europe...It was Mr. Ronald Bendall
How the fcuking hell have we ended up being relegation candidates so soon after being Champions League contenders? Our decline in the past 3 years is remarkable.
It took Ellis five years to take us from champions of Europe to relegation. That was remarkable.
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ELLIS did'nt make us Champions Of Europe...It was Mr. Ronald Bendall
How the fcuking hell have we ended up being relegation candidates so soon after being Champions League contenders? Our decline in the past 3 years is remarkable.
It took Ellis five years to take us from champions of Europe to relegation. That was remarkable.
I think it was Ron Saunders and Tony Barton TBF.
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Wigan
Blackburn
Fulham
Bolton
That's the games we need to win because were going to struggle with the others
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ELLIS did'nt make us Champions Of Europe...It was Mr. Ronald Bendall
How the fcuking hell have we ended up being relegation candidates so soon after being Champions League contenders? Our decline in the past 3 years is remarkable.
It took Ellis five years to take us from champions of Europe to relegation. That was remarkable.
I think it was Ron Saunders and Tony Barton TBF.
Ronald Bendall was the Chairman in '82...it was won on his watch....like any success or failure, its the chairman and the board that take the praise or the flak...Its called LEADERSHIP.
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This season we will be ok and AM will keep his job, it is next season I am worried about!
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Wigan
Blackburn
Fulham
Bolton
That's the games we need to win because were going to struggle with the others
We don't "need to win" them all though. 7 points will be a massive result on current form.
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Just had a go at the BBC predictor yet again and end up with us in 13th with 40 points, Wolves, QPR and Wigan relegated, dosent mean fuck all but when you hit the button for the final table and we are safe it does make you feel calmer for a moment or two, all posters try it and you make yourself feel better.
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Wigan
Blackburn
Fulham
Bolton
That's the games we need to win because were going to struggle with the others
We don't "need to win" them all though. 7 points will be a massive result on current form.
God, how we have fallen - talking about needing 7 points from that shower
Not so long ago that was a given 9 - 12 points
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Wigan
Blackburn
Fulham
Bolton
That's the games we need to win because were going to struggle with the others
We don't "need to win" them all though. 7 points will be a massive result on current form.
God, how we have fallen - talking about needing 7 points from that shower
Not so long ago that was a given 9 - 12 points
It is what it is. We've regressed about 6 years.
Nothing is going to change the fact that we are an average team in dire form (for the past 18 months) with a manager under massive pressure. If people are expecting us to go on an end of season run they can dream again.
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Like I said in the other thread, I don't think relegation would be that bad.
I can't be arsed to read the rest of your post. Fuck off, relegation would be a fucking nightmare.
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Our injury list is getting worrying now
Clark-out for several weeks
Herd-no return date
Dunne- looks like out for a few weeks
Gabby- reports of him needing an op in Summer
Keane - (not injured I know) Gone after Wigan
Our already thin squad is now looking transparent
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Still think we'll have enough to survive relegation. I don't think we're too good to go down but it has to be said in the mediocrity from 6th downwards in this league, there's at least three who look worse than us. However staying up probably won't be enough to save AM. He'll need to finish near enough where Houllier did and or i can still see there being a civilised parting of the ways in the summer. Lerner would save a bit of face that way.
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Going down? No chance.
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Going down? No chance.
Not this season.How we do first 6 games next season,lose 4 and it's new manager time.
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I'm just gonna accept he'll bring us down (while looking at the positives) so it won't hurt as bad.
The only thing that could turn from a nightmare to hell is if McLeish still here at the Championship.
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We will finish 6 points above the 3rd from bottom.
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Our injury list is getting worrying now
Clark-out for several weeks
Herd-no return date
Dunne- looks like out for a few weeks
Gabby- reports of him needing an op in Summer
Keane - (not injured I know) Gone after Wigan
Our already thin squad is now looking transparent
First I've heard of Gabby needing surgery, where'd you get that from?
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With our relegation expert in charge,awful home record and wafer thin squad, there is every chance we could go down.
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wigan will be really up for it after their result v bolton and will really fancy beating us at their place, so lets hope were as up for the battle and our quality should prove the difference. need gabby back fast i think.
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I've got an honest question..
Would you say we are more lumped in with the Bottom 6, or middle 7 to 14?
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I've got an honest question..
Would you say we are more lumped in with the Bottom 6, or middle 7 to 14?
I think the middle group. I can't see anyone else getting pulled into a relegation battle other than those there now. We're as close to 8th as we are to 18th. I reckon we'll end up somewhere from 12th-14th.
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As I have said before, we are not going down this season, but I am a lot more worried about next year because firstly we won’t have the luxury of car crash teams such as Blackburn, Bolton and Wigan. Secondly, I fear that, as McLeish will almost certainly be staying the atmosphere at Villa Park next season will make this season look like the last day of the Rio carnival.
As regards the wishing us to be relegated thoughts, I simply do not have the words to describe the stupidity of such a statement. It would be catastrophic in every sense of the word, crowds would plummet, revenue would plummet, we’d have the shame of our best players being flogged off to the likes of Sunderland, Stoke and West Brom to cut the wage bill and we’d have every neutral fan laughing into their Bovril at our demise. It would take us a decade just to get back to where we are right now and if anyone thinks that is a price worth paying to get rid of McLeish (who would not be sacked in any case) then you frankly need your head examining.
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It would take us a decade just to get back to where we are right now and if anyone thinks that is a price worth paying to get rid of McLeish (who would not be sacked in any case) then
Totally agree regarding relegation, I experienced the humiliation once and I hope to never repeat it. I remember all the Sheffield Wed fans passing through Aston station laughing and pointing....no thanks.
We shouldn't be I this situation again though, it's as though last year never happened.
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Spurs are 7 points off the top and still talked of as possible PL winners.
We are 7 points of the relagation zone, so we could easily get pulled into it
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We're 10 points of a European place. It's still possible ;)
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As some are saying we should, in theory and given our squad grab enough points to see us safe.
However, there is more to it. If we DO lose the next few the mentality changes. Confidence goes, fear sets in and with AMC in charge he will make us sit even deeper and invite other sides onto us. Now add to the recipe our defensive frailty. His fear and lack of guts is our real problem. This team can play if given the chance.
Personally, I am very concerned.
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This team can play if given the chance.
The key to survival in my view.More Arsenal, Chelsea and QPR performances rather than Tottenham and Man City. The team needs to have a go, and no more Heskey before more creative options. I'm not sure if the manager has been affected by the negativity? If so he needs to stop that now and be brave.
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As some are saying we should, in theory and given our squad grab enough points to see us safe.
However, there is more to it. If we DO lose the next few the mentality changes. Confidence goes, fear sets in and with AMC in charge he will make us sit even deeper and invite other sides onto us. Now add to the recipe our defensive frailty. His fear and lack of guts is our real problem. This team can play if given the chance.
Personally, I am very concerned.
Precisely this.
Remember, this manager has form for seeing it coming but being incapable of stopping it
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Just taken look at the table.
Fuck, I wish I hadn't.
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Relegation is a massive possibilty. The next 4 games are crucial and we need to we all 4 to have any hope of finishing comfortably but I cant see it. We'll prob win 1 or 2 of the next 4 games and then comes the tough games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Stoke and Man Utd. Im more worried about this season than last season and fear that this could be the year we are going down. We are not too big or too good to go down as other teams who we all thought the same have, West Ham and Newcastle.
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Relegation is a massive possibilty. The next 4 games are crucial and we need to we all 4 to have any hope of finishing comfortably but I cant see it. We'll prob win 1 or 2 of the next 4 games and then comes the tough games against Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Stoke and Man Utd. Im more worried about this season than last season and fear that this could be the year we are going down. We are not too big or too good to go down as other teams who we all thought the same have, West Ham and Newcastle.
Absolutely Rick. For those of us perhaps of an older vintage, you can add Man Utd and Man City to the list. Everton were one game away the season they had to beat Wimbledon in the last game too. What may just save us is that whilst we are all worried about playing Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc, the other teams down the bottom will have games against similar opposition. What I worry most about us is that I fear we don't realise we are in a relegation scrap whereas teams like Wigan and Wolves do.
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Possibility? Yes. Massive possibility? No, not for me.
We've got 4 winnable games coming up and the ability in the side to win them. I dount we will win all 4, but 7 points puts us on 35, which is close enough that we'll all be beathing a lot easier. I think the next two being away helps as our away form is better and they'll be less pressure on them.
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I don't think we will go down I reckon we will have enough to stay up but we need to start putting points on the board asap.
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People need to stop panicking. Look how many points those 5 teams down there have got after 25 games. It's highly unlikely 3 of them will get anywhere near 40 points. I'd wager 35 points would even keep us up. It would take a Devon Loch style capitulation for us to go down.
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I think it's a very real possibility but don't think we'll drop purely because there are 5 teams on 7 points or more below us . It would need 3 of them to go on a run for us to be seriously threatened and I think the bottom 5 now will be the bottom 5 come 13th May:
QPR may get a couple of results given that Hughes has replaced Colin Wanker and he's brought in Cisse and Zamora, but they're probably the worst team I've seen at VP this season so don't think they'll go on a run. Stay below us but stay up
Blackburn will score a few more now they've got Yakubu back but they haven't got any resilience against a half decent team - they apparently played Newcastle off the park and still lost. Stay below us and scrape it to stay up
Wolves were shocking yesterday and McCarthy (if he's still there) doesn't look like he can get them out of it. Relegation and bottom of the league
Bolton just look poor which is surprising as I thought Coyle was a decent manager, although he does look a bit silly wearing shorts at every game. Their next 2 league games are Chelsea and Man City away. By the time we beat them at VP they'll be more or less gone. Relegation
Wigan are there or thereabouts every season and much as I like Roberto Martinez and his style of football they just concede too many goals. Feel a bit sorry for Dave Whelan who's put a lot of support into the club to get them from League 3 to the PL, but he's fighting a losing battle against rugby up there, their support is shit, and this year they'll drop. Relegated, finishing 18th.
We still need to get some points from our next 4 games but I think we'll stay up. Next season however.....
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ELLIS did'nt make us Champions Of Europe...It was Mr. Ronald Bendall
How the fcuking hell have we ended up being relegation candidates so soon after being Champions League contenders? Our decline in the past 3 years is remarkable.
It took Ellis five years to take us from champions of Europe to relegation. That was remarkable.
I think it was Ron Saunders and Tony Barton TBF.
Ronald Bendall was the Chairman in '82...it was won on his watch....like any success or failure, its the chairman and the board that take the praise or the flak...Its called LEADERSHIP.
Nobody claimed Ellis was chairman when we won the European Cup. But he did inherit the European Champions, and get them relegated in record time. Out of interest, has it happened quicker anywhere else?
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Whilst it’s easy to over-react after yesterday’s performance, there were enough green shots in the 2nd half QPR game to prove to me that we are simply not going to go down. With the possible exception of QPR (if Hughes can get them organised), the rest of the teams below us are a shambles and I’ve seen nothing to suggest that even with McLeish at the helm we can’t get points off them and steer ourselves away way from the bottom 3.
Like many others on here, my concern is not about this season, which I wrote off as soon as it was made clear we were entering a major cost-cutting period. My concern is next season, when we will have shipped out the big earners and McLeish remains at the helm. What calibre of replacements will McLeish attract, how many fans will drift away and will Lerner show any remote interest in the club upon achieving an aim of sustainability?
I guess it’s still too early to speculate right now, but my sinking feeling is building for the summer and not the next couple of months.
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People need to stop panicking. Look how many points those 5 teams down there have got after 25 games. It's highly unlikely 3 of them will get anywhere near 40 points. I'd wager 35 points would even keep us up. It would take a Devon Loch style capitulation for us to go down.
Or a BCFC 2010-2011 style capitulation.
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ELLIS did'nt make us Champions Of Europe...It was Mr. Ronald Bendall
How the fcuking hell have we ended up being relegation candidates so soon after being Champions League contenders? Our decline in the past 3 years is remarkable.
It took Ellis five years to take us from champions of Europe to relegation. That was remarkable.
I think it was Ron Saunders and Tony Barton TBF.
Ronald Bendall was the Chairman in '82...it was won on his watch....like any success or failure, its the chairman and the board that take the praise or the flak...Its called LEADERSHIP.
Nobody claimed Ellis was chairman when we won the European Cup. But he did inherit the European Champions, and get them relegated in record time. Out of interest, has it happened quicker anywhere else?
The 60's Man Utd side must have run us close.
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I don't fear relegation. It can be a cleansing force although not desirable and financially problematic.
Villa in particular have usually come back stronger for it.
I don't think we will go down by the way. There's a lot wrong at the moment but not to that degree.
Steps have to be taken to get this club on the right track again though. And soon.
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ELLIS did'nt make us Champions Of Europe...It was Mr. Ronald Bendall
How the fcuking hell have we ended up being relegation candidates so soon after being Champions League contenders? Our decline in the past 3 years is remarkable.
It took Ellis five years to take us from champions of Europe to relegation. That was remarkable.
I think it was Ron Saunders and Tony Barton TBF.
Ronald Bendall was the Chairman in '82...it was won on his watch....like any success or failure, its the chairman and the board that take the praise or the flak...Its called LEADERSHIP.
Nobody claimed Ellis was chairman when we won the European Cup. But he did inherit the European Champions, and get them relegated in record time. Out of interest, has it happened quicker anywhere else?
I don't think any other club has had the sheer rollercoaster of third division to first division champions to european champions to the second division in, what, fifteen odd years?
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McCarthy's gone so I think we can discount Wolves as relegation certainties.
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ELLIS did'nt make us Champions Of Europe...It was Mr. Ronald Bendall
How the fcuking hell have we ended up being relegation candidates so soon after being Champions League contenders? Our decline in the past 3 years is remarkable.
It took Ellis five years to take us from champions of Europe to relegation. That was remarkable.
I think it was Ron Saunders and Tony Barton TBF.
Ronald Bendall was the Chairman in '82...it was won on his watch....like any success or failure, its the chairman and the board that take the praise or the flak...Its called LEADERSHIP.
Nobody claimed Ellis was chairman when we won the European Cup. But he did inherit the European Champions, and get them relegated in record time. Out of interest, has it happened quicker anywhere else?
I don't think any other club has had the sheer rollercoaster of third division to first division champions to european champions to the second division in, what, fifteen odd years?
And like any roller-coaster ride, wasn't it fun! More entertaining than what we have to put up with now.
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We won't go down.
McLeish may be god awful but he can at least beat relegation teams, we have beaten Wolves, Blackburn, Wigan and Bolton home and away this season.
In any case I reckon 35 or 36 points will keep you up this season.
Ummm ... we've taken 4 points from Wolves, haven't even played Wigan and Blackburn away yet, nor Bolton at home, unless you include the League Cup game ... which we lost!
Wolves will have a new manager soon, and though everyone says that QPR are crap I'd like to remind everyone that we failed to beat them this season ... twice!
I am not yet convinced that we'll be safe, far from it!
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We love our dramas don't we? Relegation? Not going to happen.
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Why I think we will be relegated:
I dont think Mcleish has the resources, man management skills or football astute-ness to pull us out of this mess. Game after game we concede ridiculous set piece goals and from a former defender means the back four either dont respect him, fear him or he is just plain wrong.
Forget the pretty football, our defensive - dont-lose-at-any-cost mentality isnt working neither. He insists on nullyfying our creativity hence the Ireland and Bannan dropping.
There are worse teams than us but quite frankly the squad that we have should be able to pull clear and grind out better results but its just not happening. Whenever we NEED to win a game we just cant quite manage it. I think that the teams below us will conspire to have better results over the next few games and we will be in the thick of it. Then having needing the 3 points on 2 games to go we fail and then our destiny is out of our hands and bang! Welcome to the championship after 25 years in the top flight and one of the final original 7 left from the Inaugral Premiership to go down.
We simply cant sell our best players and then expect the kids to keep us in the Premiership, the board is taking a massive gamble here and its not paying off. Forget the performances, I just want the win no matter how it comes for us to stay up.
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I'm sure the SHA fans thought they wouldn't go down with 30 points with still 13 games to play, while feeling invincible after coming from a Carling Cup win moments later.
Blackburn and Wigan have improved alot lately. Bolton have been good as well. QPR have been poor but I still think Hughes is good enough to get them out of it. And lastly there's Wolves with Mick being sacked that could enable them to get out of it as well with the new manager syndrome.
We? We're still stuck with the relegation perfectionist and this is the time where he begins to collpase in the league. Be very scared.
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Alex has been here, before, he knows what it takes to get a team....oh. Bugger.
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Don't think we will go down. It's not that we are good enough, it's just you can identify at least three teams worse than us.
In weekend round-up of the PL The Guardian notes that the manager has identified 'winnable' games, and is taking that approach to the season. As such they think our poor performance against Citeh was because it was deemed not a winnable game.
What a sad state of affairs to see Villa reduced to this mentality. We'll be resting players against the big clubs next.
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Relegation is a very distinct possibility, the games v Wigan and Blackburn well be all encompassing, massive games that we need to take 6pts from, that will be sufficient to keep us ahead of the race and pretty safe.
We drop points there and in my opinion we will get sucked in.
I think the move that Wolves have done today is exactly right, it could even save them as the general trend is that any new manager has a kind of honeymoon period where the players give that bit extra, so this move by Wolves could be very astute indeed, probably they are acting now because they can envisage a few mangers going and want to get the best of what's available in getting in there first, in fact its precisely what Lerner should do if we drop point to Wigan.
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I don't think its a realistic possibility at all.
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Don't think we will go down. It's not that we are good enough, it's just you can identify at least three teams worse than us.
In weekend round-up of the PL The Guardian notes that the manager has identified 'winnable' games, and is taking that approach to the season. As such they think our poor performance against Citeh was because it was deemed not a winnable game.
What a sad state of affairs to see Villa reduced to this mentality. We'll be resting players against the big clubs next.
Bloody hell that's grim,he'll be coming out with 'Every games a cup final' soon enough.
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in fact its precisely what Lerner should do if we drop point to Wigan.
Do you honestly believe in a million years that Lerner would sack McLeish and fork out once more for compensation if we lost to Wigan? He has had to spend a large chunk of the monies earned from Downing and Young paying compensation to ex-managers, therefore it is utterly and totally inconceivable that he would do so on the basis on any results we have this season.
In fact I’d like to wager the shirt on my back that no matter what happens to us this season and next season, McLeish is going absolutely nowhere.
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We have appointed a manager with a very good record in this area, let's not forget that.
Which I think was the reason behind the unrest during the summer.
Very good at what exactly - unless you mean taking a team that looks safe hurtling into relegation - as he does have a great record at that
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Don't think we will go down. It's not that we are good enough, it's just you can identify at least three teams worse than us.
In weekend round-up of the PL The Guardian notes that the manager has identified 'winnable' games, and is taking that approach to the season. As such they think our poor performance against Citeh was because it was deemed not a winnable game.
What a sad state of affairs to see Villa reduced to this mentality. We'll be resting players against the big clubs next.
Do you think we could request the club publish the list of winnable games and the unwinnable games, so that we can then decide on which tickets to spend our hard easrned cash.
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in fact its precisely what Lerner should do if we drop point to Wigan.
Do you honestly believe in a million years that Lerner would sack McLeish and fork out once more for compensation if we lost to Wigan? He has had to spend a large chunk of the monies earned from Downing and Young paying compensation to ex-managers, therefore it is utterly and totally inconceivable that he would do so on the basis on any results we have this season.
In fact I’d like to wager the shirt on my back that no matter what happens to us this season and next season, McLeish is going absolutely nowhere.
No I don't, that's why i'm saying what we should do....
Anyway is the shirt designer or what..... ;)
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....At least we will have cheap tickets :)
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Anyone who thinks we are too good to go down needs a rethink- teams below us are scoring goals and picking up points , we lack fight and tactically are poor and negative- if a team is sucked into the relegation zone as often happens at this time it could well be villa- we look an extremely poor team and without dunne and clark long term will struggle even more for results.
The games at wigan and blackburn are massive.
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I expect QPR, Bolton and Wolves to get a spurt on. Two with new managers and one because Bolton cannot be that bad. Villa will be scraping points together rather than impressing us. Pray for something like those unexpected wins vs Arsenal and Liverpool at the end of last season.
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Don't think we will go down. It's not that we are good enough, it's just you can identify at least three teams worse than us.
In weekend round-up of the PL The Guardian notes that the manager has identified 'winnable' games, and is taking that approach to the season. As such they think our poor performance against Citeh was because it was deemed not a winnable game.
What a sad state of affairs to see Villa reduced to this mentality. We'll be resting players against the big clubs next.
Do you think we could request the club publish the list of winnable games and the unwinnable games, so that we can then decide on which tickets to spend our hard easrned cash.
That's not a bad idea. A sort of reverse of the old charge more for the big games policy. Put a few extra quid on the tickets for games where Villa players will actually break sweat.
We should recommend that to the marketing team.
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Like I said in the other thread, I don't think relegation would be that bad. There are some positives (if people give McLeish some positives, then anything is possible). We need a major revamp and I think dropping down would be a massive wakeup call to the smug board at least.
I don't want us to get relegated, but I'm at the stage where I'm not even enjoying our football and I'm actually ashamed to be a Villa fan, so I'm not going to feel any different if we drop down at this stage.
If he can't win any of the next 4, expect us to drop and we deserve to be relegated because we've been a disgrace to the game and its all down to the manager.
you can tell we have lost a game, compass is back on, is he dazzy g in disguise???
Another thing, never, ever be ashamed to be a villa fan!!!!
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I'm not ashamed of our history, the fans, the stadium...anything Villa related other than I'm ashamed (currently) we're now one of the most hated in the league because of the manager.
Keep getting texts from Baggies taking the piss. What can I say? It's absoutely shameful what's going on at this club at the moment.
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Keep getting texts from Baggies taking the piss. What can I say? It's absoutely shameful what's going on at this club at the moment.
No it isn't.
Shameful is what Liverpool are right now due to the actions of their manager and striker.
What Villa are is not a very good team at the moment. We've been worse in the past and probably will be worse again in the future, but there's nothing 'shameful' about that.
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There's already been bust ups behind the scenes, last week N'Zogbia made it clear he hates playing football for the first time, Ireland (who's been in good form lately) has been dropped for fucking Heskey, we've got the manager at the end coming out he thought it was a excellent gameplan, so we'll probably see more of his anti football.
It's shameful (for me) because this isn't what Villa is about. Yeah, we may have been shit over the years, but we've always been known of giving it a go. We've always been a respectful club that treasures the game. Now we're just a poor version of Stoke who I hated with a passion because they don't even try to football and we're going the same way. We have an attacking lineup, but our manager would rather neglect them and stick with his circus park the bus routine where it rarely ever works. He even tried it against Newcastle in the second half. Why not just attack all the way? Why has he got to mess it up with negative subs and it's not like we're even winning.
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I'm not ashamed of our history, the fans, the stadium...anything Villa related other than I'm ashamed (currently) we're now one of the most hated in the league because of the manager.
Hated ? By who** ?
I can see Liverpool being "hated" at the moment due to their stance during the Suarez/Evra affair.
I can see Chelsea and Man City being "hated" because of all the money they've spent.
I can see Man Utd being "hated" because............ well,............ they're Man Utd.
But Villa ? Why would any outsider (non Small Heath / Baggie / Wolves category) hate Villa just because of who the manager is?
(** unless its "whom", I never know which to use)
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I dont think its right to say shameful but maybe embarrassing. I mean, a lot of fans from other teams have come on the radio after they have beaten us and said how boring we are and how negative the manager is.
Its embarrassing how lng it took us to appoint a manager for it to be Mcleish, the man who relegated our neighbours twice and has the honour of winning the carling cup by a flukiest goal ever.
Its embarrassing that fans would deface the gates of BMH in protest of his appointment.
Its embarrassing that we cant fill our stadium against the big boys i.e. Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal. Yes times are hard but I have a feeling that if it was any other manager in charge then we would be getting slightly better attendences.
Its also embarrassing that despite a circa of 1k fans protesting outside the Holte end, when news broke that RL would be speaking to AM, they stil went ahead and appointed him and payed the Sty compensation!
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I'm not ashamed of our history, the fans, the stadium...anything Villa related other than I'm ashamed (currently) we're now one of the most hated in the league because of the manager.
Hated ? By who** ?
I can see Liverpool being "hated" at the moment due to their stance during the Suarez/Evra affair.
I can see Chelsea and Man City being "hated" because of all the money they've spent.
I can see Man Utd being "hated" because............ well,............ they're Man Utd.
But Villa ? Why would any outsider (non Small Heath / Baggie / Wolves category) hate Villa just because of who the manager is?
(** unless its "whom", I never know which to use)
No neutrals I know of hate us but we are perceived to be the most boring team in the division here - even more than Bolton, Wolves or Blackburn, because they each have the comedy-is-coming-very-soon effect.
A couple of years ago I had neutrals watching our games alongside me; now they look over my shoulder and just ask if we are playing as shit as usual
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We're not hated, but we are fast becoming the most pitied team in the league.
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And that is far worse.
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We're not hated, but we are fast becoming the most pitied team in the league.
Felt that some time back with the comments from pundits and commentators. It was never hatred, just the sort of pity you would feel for an old dog shuffling along because it's back legs have gone.
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I'm not ashamed of our history, the fans, the stadium...anything Villa related other than I'm ashamed (currently) we're now one of the most hated in the league because of the manager.
Keep getting texts from Baggies taking the piss. What can I say? It's absoutely shameful what's going on at this club at the moment.
Hated? What an absolute load of bunkum.
Pitied for various reasons, not least having 'fans' like your good self who will use every opportunity to criticise the club.
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We're not hated, but we are fast becoming the most pitied team in the league.
Hated is a bit strong but i imagine when neutrals turn on the tv they quickly change channel if they see villa are playing- we are awful to watch !
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We're not hated, but we are fast becoming the most pitied team in the league.
Hated is a bit strong but i imagine when neutrals turn on the tv they quickly change channel if they see villa are playing- we are awful to watch !
either that or carrying on watching a laugh at our performances and know there will be goals scored......against us!
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Keep getting texts from Baggies taking the piss. What can I say? It's absoutely shameful what's going on at this club at the moment.
No it isn't.
What is shameful is how our pathetic Chairman has caused this situation with his useless Managerial appointments and selling off the best players season on season. Lerner has no leadership at all and that permeates through the club from top to bottom. We'd be better of with Doug in charge - there's no way he would have appointed AM! We'll soon be worse off that DOL's last season in charge especially if it ends in relegation.
Shameful is what Liverpool are right now due to the actions of their manager and striker.
What Villa are is not a very good team at the moment. We've been worse in the past and probably will be worse again in the future, but there's nothing 'shameful' about that.
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If we don't take at least 10 points from our next 4 games, then it may become a possibility.
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Got to say I haven't had a neutral fan say anything other than derogatory comments about us for months. We are bad to watch atm. I struggle to watch us let alone the rest of the country.
I'm not ashamed....just a little embarrassed.
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I just did the predictor thing on the BBC. West Brom away is a very important game.
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Many people on here in the past have said they hate stoke for the way they play so can see his point. Difference is they were good at being negative where we are just shit.
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Many people on here in the past have said they hate stoke for the way they play so can see his point. Difference is they were good at being negative where we are just shit.
i hate the way Stoke play, but i wouldnt call it negative, the whole system involves getting the ball forward into the box as fast and quick as posible, where big blokes can cause trouble and try and create a goal,
its not pretty but its positive in my view
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Did you see them at VP last year? A good 20 mins worth of timewasting, playing for throw ins taking ages to take them, ridiculous and it ruined the entire game. Definitely negative
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We are too good to go down.
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We are too good to go down.
Probably, but the penalties for administration can be harsh.
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I'm with Maz on the relegation point. It would hit us hard financially, but its not my money. #
I would genuinely rather watch us win every week in the Championship than see us playing for draws, at home, against teams made up of our former players. I've never bought into this idea that the Premier League is the land of milk and honey. Football is still just a sport to me. A form of entertainment. Its not a business. I just want to see good football and a winning team. It makes no odds what division we are in - because we arent going to win the title anyway.
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Did you see them at VP last year? A good 20 mins worth of timewasting, playing for throw ins taking ages to take them, ridiculous and it ruined the entire game. Definitely negative
they dont go out to defend a nil nil though, i'm not defending them i cant stand them, but there is a big difference in our negative tactics and the way Stoke play the game,
the Stoke way is called 'long ball' or 'Direct' straight away its a system which depends on the ball going forward a lot, unlike anything played by Blues last season which depended on getting as many players behind the ball and stifling the life out of the game.
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If we don't take at least 10 points from our next 4 games, then it may become a possibility.
10 more points would be virtual security, we dont need to get them in the next 4 games
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There its no other place for a club to be than in the top flight. Premier league wankery aside, if you're not in the top flight them you're even more of an irrelevance than we currently are. To be relegated would be a huge embarrassment beyond any pitiful surrender to the top clubs.
Is a good job we're not going down. There are no cogent arguments to be made as to just how the bottom clubs are going to get more points than us.
That said, the situation we're in is entirely unacceptable. We've simply existed for two seasons now. The club needs to be purged clean.
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We are too good to go down.
Tempting fate?
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If we don't take at least 10 points from our next 4 games, then it may become a possibility.
10 more points would be virtual security, we dont need to get them in the next 4 games
Ow yes we do, because we ain't getting no points in the games after.
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We are too good to go down.
Tempting fate?
Most probably.
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If we don't take at least 10 points from our next 4 games, then it may become a possibility.
10 more points would be virtual security, we dont need to get them in the next 4 games
Ow yes we do, because we ain't getting no points in the games after.
All 9 of them?
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The fatalism and lack of objective thinking is boiling my piss at the moment. Its not enough to be dreary, mediocre pap, no, we have to be even worse than some McNiell/O'Leary hybrid.
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There its no other place for a club to be than in the top flight. Premier league wankery aside, if you're not in the top flight them you're even more of an irrelevance than we currently are. To be relegated would be a huge embarrassment beyond any pitiful surrender to the top clubs.
Is a good job we're not going down. There are no cogent arguments to be made as to just how the bottom clubs are going to get more points than us.
That said, the situation we're in is entirely unacceptable. We've simply existed for two seasons now. The club needs to be purged clean.
Last sentence - absolutely correct.
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If we don't take at least 10 points from our next 4 games, then it may become a possibility.
10 more points would be virtual security, we dont need to get them in the next 4 games
Ow yes we do, because we ain't getting no points in the games after.
To be fair, shit though we frequently are, that's what people said last season with far fewer games left, and a tougher run in, and that didn't really turn out as expected.
We're a poor side with a poor, negative manager, and if we're not careful, we're going to get dragged into the mix.
That's one thing.
"We're not going to get any points from our last nine games" is another thing entirely.
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That said, the situation we're in is entirely unacceptable. We've simply existed for two seasons now. The club needs to be purged clean.
Hammer----->Nail, BANG!
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There its no other place for a club to be than in the top flight. Premier league wankery aside, if you're not in the top flight them you're even more of an irrelevance than we currently are. To be relegated would be a huge embarrassment beyond any pitiful surrender to the top clubs.
Is a good job we're not going down. There are no cogent arguments to be made as to just how the bottom clubs are going to get more points than us.
That said, the situation we're in is entirely unacceptable. We've simply existed for two seasons now. The club needs to be purged clean.
Agree with all of that. We aren't going down, we're reasonably clear of the drop zone, have a much better goal difference and are better than Wolves, Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan and probably QPR and have four piss easy fixtures on the horizon. I also definitely think the club needs to be purged as well and there needs to be a change in ethos from top to bottom.
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Yep otherwise the situation will be much worse this time next year.
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I'm not ashamed of our history, the fans, the stadium...anything Villa related other than I'm ashamed (currently) we're now one of the most hated in the league because of the manager.
Keep getting texts from Baggies taking the piss. What can I say? It's absoutely shameful what's going on at this club at the moment.
The bitter bird twats were wanking themselves this time last year over the thoughts of being the highest placed Midlands side and us going down. How did that end again?
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One of the most hated in the league because of our manager? What an absolute load of bollocks.
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The next 4 games are definatley winnable but on our form i can't see us doing that. 10 points is possible and would see us virtually safe but i think 8 points is most likely.
6 points or less and i think Randy should start thinking about the next manager.
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I dont think we're too good to go down. We may get points in our last 9 games. But I would be willing to bet we get around 3 points in those final 9 games.
10 points from our next 4 and I will be calm. Less than 7 and I will be worried
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I remember last season how the thoughts were we needed 42+ points to stay up and had to get them before the last 2 games as we'd get fuck all from them.
Which is why we're all sat behind our keyboards talking bollocks as ultimately, we don't know anywhere near as much about the game as we like to think we do.
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If we don't take at least 10 points from our next 4 games, then it may become a possibility.
there is no way we'll take ten points. 7 points from the four games will be enough. i wish people would stop panicking.
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If we don't take at least 10 points from our next 4 games, then it may become a possibility.
there is no way we'll take ten points. 7 points from the four games will be enough. i wish people would stop panicking.
With the teams we're playing, we should be looking to take more than 7 points.
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We should, but if we don't it's not going to mean that the Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse are about to turn their canter into a light trot.
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Of course we should be looking at maximum points but we ain't gonna get em. all of those teams will be looking to beat us knowing how fragile we are.
The point is we'll be safe on 35 points after those 4 games
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I also agree the next 4 games are crucial. You can never predict accurately, but our run of fixtures after that are tough. Wigan, Blackburn, Fulham Bolton are crucial, the latter two at home where the fans will really need to get behind the team.
After that, I wouldn't be confident about getting much from any of the following games:
Ars (a), Chel (h), LFC (a), Stoke (h), MU (a), Sund (h), WBA (a), Spurs (h), Nor (a)
If we had any of those fixtures up next, I'd fancy us to draw v Stoke and possibly WBA or Norwich, but to lose every other one. You can't say we won't turn into better form, and the next 4 games are a good opportunity to pick up 8 points plus, which should both give us enough to survive (36 with 9 games to scramble 4 or so points together) and improve the confidence for the run in so we can finish as high as possible and blood the kids.
But if we were to do badly in the next 4, then I for one will be very worried. With Dunne and Clark out we're going to see the defence tested a lot too.
I don't think we are in a relegation fight at the moment. But in 4 games we could be, and I'd be very worried about this team in a dogfight.
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We are too good to go down.
Tempting fate?
I said the same last season.
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As long as we get 7 points or more from the next 4 games then we should be fine as I don't think we will need more than about 35 to stay up this season.
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We are too good to go down.
Tempting fate?
I said the same last season.
And you went down.
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I believe that we're in the phony war position of being bad enough with the mixture of a severe lack of courage across the club to be relegated,however we won't be due to other clubs failings.
Essentially,Wolves have took 14 points from their last 22 games, seems illogical even if Hiddink took charge there that they'd get 8 points more than us from their remaining games which include Newcastle, Arsenal, Man Utd and Man City.
Bolton have virtually the same fixtures as we do, how are they going to get 9 more points than us,plus we've got them at home,I can't see a total capitulation in our remaining fixtures.Sure,we're going to scrape a few,lose a game we should win etc .
Wigan have to play Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and Newcastle. Why are they going to get more points from those games than us,how are they all going to turn around the 7/8/9 point divide.They're not, there's no chance of us going down..Essentially,one of them may overhaul us with a run of form,3 of them would point to a perfect storm scenario.
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One of the teams below us could overtake us, maybe QPR say, but I'd be astounded if 3 did by the end of the season.
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One of the teams below us could overtake us, maybe QPR say, but I'd be astounded if 3 did by the end of the season.
Dunne and clark out long term means another defender injured and we have no cover -could end up with heskey at centre half-if we havent taken 6 points min in the next 4 games then we are in real trouble- and no we are not too good to go down-we are a very poor team, with a shit defence and poor midfield , only given ,gabby and bent are top quality.
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One of the teams below us could overtake us, maybe QPR say, but I'd be astounded if 3 did by the end of the season.
Dunne and clark out long term means another defender injured and we have no cover -could end up with heskey at centre half-if we havent taken 6 points min in the next 4 games then we are in real trouble- and no we are not too good to go down-we are a very poor team, with a shit defence and poor midfield , only given ,gabby and bent are top quality.
I don't think we are a very poor team at all. It's just that our defence has been shambolic at times, the home games against QPR and Swansea being examples of how they have cost us. N'Zog, on his day, is a quality player - and I think/hope he will relish the battles ahead. Being in this position will make it a steep learning curve for the young lads but I don't doubt their quality to respond, either.
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Six points from the next four and we will be fine. I am not stressed.
God help him if we bollocks them up mind.
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We should, but if we don't it's not going to mean that the Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse are about to turn their canter into a light trot.
especially if we play like 'the four poxmen of the horslips'
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Six points from the next four and we will be fine. I am not stressed.
God help him if we bollocks them up mind.
This is how I see and I refuse to believe that even with our propensity for f**kwittery we can’t get a enough points to put relegation to bed. We can then relax and look forward to another season with McLeish at the helm.
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Six points from the next four and we will be fine. I am not stressed.
God help him if we bollocks them up mind.
I think 6 points out the next twelve would be a shocking return bearing in mind who we're playing.
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And I would like to think we would get more. But this thread is about the possibility of relegation and, as I read it, six points from the next four means we will be fine.
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And I would like to think we would get more. But this thread is about the possibility of relegation and, as I read it, six points from the next four means we will be fine.
It would open up a six point gap on top of what it currently is for two of the sides.
I reckon we'll take eight. Wins at Wigan and at home to Bolton, with draws at Blackburn and at home to Fulham.
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I think we will lose to Blackburn and Fulham, draw with Bolton (who are better away from home I think) and beat Wigan, giving us 4 points. We will see. Blackburn have renewed confidence at the moment and are playing for their lives, and score a lot of goals, Wigan are a complete unknown, Bolton are fighting hard and will be desperate which may help us actually and Fulham are a bit up and down but have the capacity to hurt sides like they did a couple of weeks back against Newcastle. I think saying 10-12 points should be on is very optimistic. I will stick with my 4.
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Yeah that's how I read it too ozzjim. Did he predictor thingy for what it's worth and even with a pessimistic outlook I didn't see us going down. The other teams have tough games too. I can see qpr ending up relegated. The big issue though would be what would happen if we lost the next couple and our heads dropped. With Dunne out we definitely lack leadership so might not be as straightforward as we would like to think. It's a disgrace that we're having to worry about this though.
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Six points from the next four and we will be fine. I am not stressed.
God help him if we bollocks them up mind.
[/
without clark and dunne we are down to the bare bones-i would settle for 6 points but if we could squeak 7 or 8 then we should be safe enough- if we however fail to get at least 6 then we are in desperate trouble because i wouldnt back our side to get out of a relegation scrap if it came to the final games.
Lets be clear none of the next 4 games will be easy and we will have to play well and scrap hard to pick up points.
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4 games, 4 draws and 4 points.
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Heskey at centre half makes a hell of a lot more sense than him on the right wing. Big, strong, think it is amazing he has only played there the once. Made for the Dublin style move.
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And if we play him there we can look forward to his Mrs then tweeting her fingers off moaning about it !!
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She should be pleased he's still getting paid. Nice chap, tryer etc., etc., but i really can't think of another Villa player who's been this bad and managed 81 games. They usually get bombed out long before the 40 game mark. As for playing him in defence, he is useless in the air as a forward so a centre half with the same trait isn't much help
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Heskey at centre half makes a hell of a lot more sense than him on the right wing. Big, strong, think it is amazing he has only played there the once. Made for the Dublin style move.
he's very good defending corners. He's a big bastard who's not afraid so that would be a very good option. What he certainly isn't is a forward or midfielder of any worth anymore.
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Agreed TV. He can't slow down every attack at centre back either.
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I can't wait for he first time he's forced to make a tackle in the box. Brilliant idea.
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Heskey should be asked to play centre half only when Mrs Sheila Brown, 67, of Shard End is unavailable.
She being the 4,567,223,879th most suitable candidate.
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Heskey at centre back?
Marvellous.
Let's go the whole hog and partner him with Tanni Grey Thompson.
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Heskey at center back is not the worst idea in the world. It does make the top ten though.
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Why is Heskey even being suggested as centre back when we already have Collins and Cuellar available to play there? Heskey should not be in the starting line up nor the match day squad. end of!
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NRC ended up at centre back in one game, so why not Emile ?
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NRC ended up at centre back in one game, so why not Emile ?
As I said above, we have Collins and Cuellar to do that duty.
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Emile might make a decent emergency centre back, but we haven't hit the emergency stage yet with Collins and Cuellar fit and ready to play.
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I can't believe that people are suggesting Emile as a centre back when he clearly doesnt belong in the side. Its amazing what a crap season does to peoples minds by making them think of such silly ideas.
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He's a huge player, who frequently ends up in a pile on the floor, often for no obvious reason. And people think he could do a job in defence?
It's bad enough we have the all-time leading own-goal scorer and recipient of red cards at centre back, Emile is the last bloody person we need there.
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I can't believe that people are suggesting Emile as a centre back when he clearly doesnt belong in the side. Its amazing what a crap season does to peoples minds by making them think of such silly ideas.
His tackling is decent, he's strong and also good in the air. Why not try it?
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Can I just point out, after 25 games last season, Blues had 30 points. We have 28. With a better squad. Shit is not the word for the job he is doing. If they can drop from 30 at this point last season, we can from 28.
Last season teams generally had more points though. After playing 25 games (unless marked)
2012
15th with 28 points AV
16th with 21 points QPR
17th with 21 points Blackburn
18th with 21 points Wolves
19th with 20 points Bolton
20th with 19 points Wigan
2011
15th with 28 points Blackpool
16th with 27 points Blues (24 games)
17th with 26 points WBA
18th with 26 points Wigan (26 games)
19th with 24 points Wolves
20th with 24 points West Ham (26 games)
This doesn't mean Billy McNeil II is any good of course but the situation is a little bit different this year. My first post isn't as funny as I'd hoped ::)
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NRC ended up at centre back in one game, so why not Emile ?
Barry Bannan ended up at CH last year when we were throwing the kitchen sink et al trying to save a game.
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I'm really not sure about McLeish being our boss.
At times I think we have to give him a season, then during crazy moments during the game I think 'oh why oh why' then after the game and the dust has settled I think maybe he can turn it around.
Then you think well actually we played well against them and looked good against the other one and that if it wasn't for bad luck and silly individual errors we might have more points on the board.
Then you read all the comments about the strange things he has done regarding tactics and you really try and remember our last home win, or even our last win and start to think maybe its time to change him.
Then you see people thinking Heskey can play center back and then you know nobody actually knows anything anymore and the world has gone fucking mental. ;)
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I was pissed off how long it took to get a pie from the snack bar , I think he could do a good job there helping them out .
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I hope we don't sign Tanni Grey Thompson. She is a nose
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Can I just point out, after 25 games last season, Blues had 30 points. We have 28. With a better squad. Shit is not the word for the job he is doing. If they can drop from 30 at this point last season, we can from 28.
Last season teams generally had more points though. After playing 25 games (unless marked)
2012
15th with 28 points AV
16th with 21 points QPR
17th with 21 points Blackburn
18th with 21 points Wolves
19th with 20 points Bolton
20th with 19 points Wigan
2011
15th with 28 points Blackpool
16th with 27 points Blues (24 games)
17th with 26 points WBA
18th with 26 points Wigan (26 games)
19th with 24 points Wolves
20th with 24 points West Ham (26 games)
This doesn't mean Billy McNeil II is any good of course but the situation is a little bit different this year. My first post isn't as funny as I'd hoped ::)
Good point well made and welcome to the site.
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I can't believe that people are suggesting Emile as a centre back when he clearly doesnt belong in the side. Its amazing what a crap season does to peoples minds by making them think of such silly ideas.
Also gives loads of fouls away which could be dangerous in and around the box
His tackling is decent, he's strong and also good in the air. Why not try it?
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I can't wait for he first time he's forced to make a tackle in the box. Brilliant idea.
have you watched our current defenders tackle in the box? Would Heskey be any worse? I close my eyes every time Warnock, Dunne, Collins or Hutton go near an opposition player in our penalty area.
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I'm really not sure about McLeish being our boss.
At times I think we have to give him a season, then during crazy moments during the game I think 'oh why oh why' then after the game and the dust has settled I think maybe he can turn it around.
Then you think well actually we played well against them and looked good against the other one and that if it wasn't for bad luck and silly individual errors we might have more points on the board.
Then you read all the comments about the strange things he has done regarding tactics and you really try and remember our last home win, or even our last win and start to think maybe its time to change him.
Then you see people thinking Heskey can play center back and then you know nobody actually knows anything anymore and the world has gone fucking mental. ;)
I'm exactly the same, I really don't want him here but the reality is he's here to stay so I search desperately for any glimpse of positivity in the matter, its becoming harder and harder to find any unfortunately.
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Heskey at center back is not the worst idea in the world.
Oh no. That'd be playing him in as a striker (not that we have lately).
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I'm really not sure about McLeish being our boss.
At times I think we have to give him a season, then during crazy moments during the game I think 'oh why oh why' then after the game and the dust has settled I think maybe he can turn it around.
Then you think well actually we played well against them and looked good against the other one and that if it wasn't for bad luck and silly individual errors we might have more points on the board.
Then you read all the comments about the strange things he has done regarding tactics and you really try and remember our last home win, or even our last win and start to think maybe its time to change him.
Then you see people thinking Heskey can play center back and then you know nobody actually knows anything anymore and the world has gone fucking mental. ;)
I'm exactly the same, I really don't want him here but the reality is he's here to stay so I search desperately for any glimpse of positivity in the matter, its becoming harder and harder to find any unfortunately.
This
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I'm really not sure about McLeish being our boss.
At times I think we have to give him a season, then during crazy moments during the game I think 'oh why oh why' then after the game and the dust has settled I think maybe he can turn it around.
Then you think well actually we played well against them and looked good against the other one and that if it wasn't for bad luck and silly individual errors we might have more points on the board.
Then you read all the comments about the strange things he has done regarding tactics and you really try and remember our last home win, or even our last win and start to think maybe its time to change him.
Then you see people thinking Heskey can play center back and then you know nobody actually knows anything anymore and the world has gone fucking mental. ;)
I'm exactly the same, I really don't want him here but the reality is he's here to stay so I search desperately for any glimpse of positivity in the matter, its becoming harder and harder to find any unfortunately.
This
I agree with all of the above!
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Ian j that was a very good post in my view and perfectly sums up my thoughts on villa at the current time. 1 step forwards , 2 back. Personally don't give a fuck about mcleishs blues or rangers connections, I think he is an honorable man, but just out of his depth at this level. Sorry al, but thanks for having a crack at it, but Cheerio in may mate .
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I can't believe that people are suggesting Emile as a centre back when he clearly doesnt belong in the side. Its amazing what a crap season does to peoples minds by making them think of such silly ideas.
This.
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The next 4 games are very important, because if we get dragged into the scrap below us, we don't have the manager capable of getting us out the shit.
We need to get to safety as soon as possible because the longer it goes on the harder it will be for us. Our fans are not used to it, the players don't seem to have the fight and the manager has proven he is incapable.
18 months ago I was turning my nose up at the likes of Curbishley etc becoming our manager, ow what I'd give for him instead of Mcleish now.
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I'm really not sure about McLeish being our boss.
At times I think we have to give him a season, then during crazy moments during the game I think 'oh why oh why' then after the game and the dust has settled I think maybe he can turn it around.
Then you think well actually we played well against them and looked good against the other one and that if it wasn't for bad luck and silly individual errors we might have more points on the board.
Then you read all the comments about the strange things he has done regarding tactics and you really try and remember our last home win, or even our last win and start to think maybe its time to change him.
Then you see people thinking Heskey can play center back and then you know nobody actually knows anything anymore and the world has gone fucking mental. ;)
I'm exactly the same, I really don't want him here but the reality is he's here to stay so I search desperately for any glimpse of positivity in the matter, its becoming harder and harder to find any unfortunately.
Pretty much sums up my current viewpoint. If there is one reason for wishing him success at the Villa it is that I don't think I could stomach his leaving for whatever reason and the dateless wonders with their Facebook groups and bedsheets and over reliance on capital letters taking any credit for accellerating his departure.
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The other point being the list of possible replacements doesn't make pretty reading. The only way I'd like him to go is if we get new investment or owners and will be spending enough to get a top man interested in the post.
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The other point being the list of possible replacements doesn't make pretty reading.
They make prettier reading than who is in charge at the moment
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The other point being the list of possible replacements doesn't make pretty reading.
They make prettier reading than who is in charge at the moment
I don't personally think that, but each to their own.
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Neither did I until last Sunday John, now I'm hitting the panic button ;)
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The other point being the list of possible replacements doesn't make pretty reading.
They make prettier reading than who is in charge at the moment
I think the saying is "the other man's grass Is always greener".
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Sunday didn't tell us anything we didn't already know:-
1. We're better when we attack.
2. We can't defend set pieces.
3. Heskey offers little.
4. Be it through tactics or mentality, we have an inferiority complex against the better sides, particularly at home.
So my opinion hasn't changed; he needs to do better with what he has, but we won't go down so judgements should be reserved until the end of the season.
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judgements should be reserved until the end of the season.
Although unless some unexpected changes occur the observations you have listed will still stand.
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judgements should be reserved until the end of the season.
Although unless some unexpected changes occur the observations you have listed will still stand.
Well, Heskey will be gone then and I'd hope we see some strong links to good new defenders to solve another one of the issues.
I think Man City at home was a bit of a watershed for some in terms of 'not learning his lesson', as I've heard several times this week. What he now needs to do is give us a few more showings like Chelsea away before May to balance that out.
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Problem is , as he said in his post match interview He thought his game plan was spot on. The look of confusion when Lescott scored was frightening He hadnt a clue what to do next. I'll never forget Blues last day of the season against Spurs keeping the ball when they equalised rather than pushing for a win to secure safety, then going into complete panic mode When Wolves pulled another back. Frightening stuff
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I think to survive this season then we have to go unbeaten and pick up 8 to 10 points from the next four games, if we don't then we could be in serious trouble because the 8 games after that are all really tough and i don't fancy us if we have to go to Norwich on the last day and get something.
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Just watching survival sunday from last year on youtube. At 10:15 "They have no idea Jeff, they have 9 men behind the ball em i mean 10, there not even trying, look like there playing for a draw!" 10:56 "One minute to go the penny has finally dropped"
&feature=related
Sounds the exactly how I would of desribed the game against Man City, McCleish still has no idea!
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Repeated post please ignore
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He had Kevin Phillips available last season, but he left him on the bench,
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Villa
Wigan, Blackburn, Fulham, Bolton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Stoke, Utd, Sunderland, Baggies, Spurs, Norwich
QPR
Fulham, Everton, Bolton, Liverpool, Sunderland, Arsenal, Utd, Swansea, Baggies, Spurs, Chelsea, Stoke, City
Wolves
Newcastle, Fulham, Blackburn, Utd, Norwich, Bolton, Stoke, Arsenal, Sunderland, City, Swansea, Everton, Wigan
Blackburn
City, Us, Wolves, Sunderland, Bolton, Utd, Baggies, Liverpool, Swansea, Norwich, Spurs, Wigan, Chelsea
Bolton
City, Chelsea, QPR, Us, Blackburn, Wolves, Fulham, Newcastle, Spurs, Swansea, Sunderland, Baggies, Stoke
Pretty much a mixed bag for everybody. Everybody plays some of the big teams and others in the scrap.
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what that tells us is that we need to get enough points from the next 4 games to avoid getting into the scrap
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what that tells us is that we need to get enough points from the next 4 games to avoid getting into the scrap
Two wins in the next four would ease the pressure considerably.
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Villa
Wigan, Blackburn, Fulham, Bolton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Stoke, Utd, Sunderland, Baggies, Spurs, Norwich
QPR
Fulham, Everton, Bolton, Liverpool, Sunderland, Arsenal, Utd, Swansea, Baggies, Spurs, Chelsea, Stoke, City
Wolves
Newcastle, Fulham, Blackburn, Utd, Norwich, Bolton, Stoke, Arsenal, Sunderland, City, Swansea, Everton, Wigan
Blackburn
City, Us, Wolves, Sunderland, Bolton, Utd, Baggies, Liverpool, Swansea, Norwich, Spurs, Wigan, Chelsea
Bolton
City, Chelsea, QPR, Us, Blackburn, Wolves, Fulham, Newcastle, Spurs, Swansea, Sunderland, Baggies, Stoke
Pretty much a mixed bag for everybody. Everybody plays some of the big teams and others in the scrap.
sad times when you think about .. people say its the most meodicre league (other than 3 teams ) with so many shite teams BUT WE ARE 15TH
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judgements should be reserved until the end of the season.
Although unless some unexpected changes occur the observations you have listed will still stand.
Well, Heskey will be gone then and I'd hope we see some strong links to good new defenders to solve another one of the issues.
I think Man City at home was a bit of a watershed for some in terms of 'not learning his lesson', as I've heard several times this week. What he now needs to do is give us a few more showings like Chelsea away before May to balance that out.
How is it a watershead, he did exactly the same at Spuds away and Liverpool at Villa Park. I can take losing, but cant take not trying to win a game
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I really wouldn't want QPR's run-in.
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i think we'll survive this season ..... i had villa down for a mid table finish due to wage bills, and introducing our youth.
One thing i didn't envisage though was a total lack of effort, and skill from certain pro's (we all know who they are), hence our predicament. I for one am not blaming Mcleish ... some people might say "he plays players out of position". But i remember a certain MON who done it regularly (remember Milner at left & right back etc etc) ... oh by the way, i also remember Ireland saying that he was better than Milner ... haha ... And i wont even start on Warnock, N'zogbia etc. ... At least the kids show passion!! ... I know it would never happen (this season), but i would LOVE to see what WOULD happen, if he put (perhaps) Lichaj @ RB ... Clarke @ LB, ... and start playing Gardner and Bannan a bit more often ... I think Bannan has a better touch than ireland (and very clever too) ... and Gardner, well say no more! ... oh! and Cuellar as well ..... Any views guys?http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/Smileys/default/undecided.gif
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Thing is Mcleish peed me off so much last week with same negative tactics he employed at Spuds and at home to Liverpool. It was a disgrace we never attacked till the last few minutes last Sunday. I like Bannan, but he has to impose himself more IMHO. As for Clark at left back, he got skinned by Kightley at the wolves, he is a CB or a defensive CM now, though I thougha while back he could do left back. Lichaj played left back in last reserve game, he could play there now as clark is injured anyway
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had the most vivid dream last night, that we lost our last home game of the season 1-0 (for some reason it was Wigan)and were relegated.
the whole ground pointing to the posh seats and singing to Lerner (to the tune of 'you don't know what you're doing) 'you wouldn't fucking listen'!!
Far too vivid for my liking.
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I'm really not sure about McLeish being our boss.
At times I think we have to give him a season, then during crazy moments during the game I think 'oh why oh why' then after the game and the dust has settled I think maybe he can turn it around.
Then you think well actually we played well against them and looked good against the other one and that if it wasn't for bad luck and silly individual errors we might have more points on the board.
Then you read all the comments about the strange things he has done regarding tactics and you really try and remember our last home win, or even our last win and start to think maybe its time to change him.
Then you see people thinking Heskey can play center back and then you know nobody actually knows anything anymore and the world has gone fucking mental. ;)
I'm exactly the same, I really don't want him here but the reality is he's here to stay so I search desperately for any glimpse of positivity in the matter, its becoming harder and harder to find any unfortunately.
This
I agree with all of the above!
Just about nails it for me too...
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Just watching survival sunday from last year on youtube. At 10:15 "They have no idea Jeff, they have 9 men behind the ball em i mean 10, there not even trying, look like there playing for a draw!" 10:56 "One minute to go the penny has finally dropped"
&feature=related
Sounds the exactly how I would of desribed the game against Man City, McCleish still has no idea!
I'm amazed they managed to get a 1-1 with Spurs until the 90th minute given how utterly inept we were down there this season.
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At the moment I don't know what I'd miss too much about being relegated, 3pm Kick off's on a Saturday, decent ticket prices, visit new grounds with decent fans. For the last 2 years my days of watching the Villa is made up of a lot of enthusiasm, meeting mates, drinking and having a great time.....Only ruined by watching 90 minutes of emotionless football.
I know deep down I don't want to be relegated but I'm not enjoying being mediocre, I need a good relegation battle to make me appreciate them again.
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At the moment I don't know what I'd miss too much about being relegated, 3pm Kick off's on a Saturday, decent ticket prices, visit new grounds with decent fans. For the last 2 years my days of watching the Villa is made up of a lot of enthusiasm, meeting mates, drinking and having a great time.....Only ruined by watching 90 minutes of emotionless football.
I know deep down I don't want to be relegated but I'm not enjoying being mediocre, I need a good relegation battle to make me appreciate them again.
Think your going to get that whatever...
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Let's see what happens this coming weekend...
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At the moment I don't know what I'd miss too much about being relegated, 3pm Kick off's on a Saturday, decent ticket prices, visit new grounds with decent fans. For the last 2 years my days of watching the Villa is made up of a lot of enthusiasm, meeting mates, drinking and having a great time.....Only ruined by watching 90 minutes of emotionless football.
I know deep down I don't want to be relegated but I'm not enjoying being mediocre, I need a good relegation battle to make me appreciate them again.
So true, the football gets in the way of a good day at the minute. This is the least most motivated side I have seen since Turner / McNeill.
By the way,where has the General gone?
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I am working in the grim north during the week...
You know how every year a team that shouldnt be in the dog fight gets dragged in.... well all the Sunderland and "Nuke-us-all" fans I know think that we will be that team this year!
I said look at our next few fixtures we will be fine...
When we looked at them, if we do not pick up at least 7 points from those it will be squeeky bum time as we then have:
Chelsea, liverpool, stoke (should get something), Man U, Sunderland (given our luck are going to do us), West Brom (not confident although away so no boo boys), Tottenham & Norwich (Who are currently playing well)
But looking at those teams lower than us and their remaining games, we wont be in the bottom 3...
Wigan have a tough run, for how bad they are so wont pick up much more than 6 points rest of the season I think, so they are certain for going down about 25pt mark
Bolton have an OK run, can see them picking up 12 points putting them on 32
Wolves - Cant see them picking up many points now maybe 7, putting them level on 28 pts
Blackburn wont pick up many either, think they will finish around the 28 point mark....
QPR will string some wins together i think and finish with about 33 pts
I think we will end on about 38 pts if we can deliver over the next few games...
With Wigan, Wolves & Blackburn going down
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Todays results have put us right in it, where are the points to stay upp going to come from?
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I still believe 35 points is the survival target...I still back us to scamble two draws....
Wolves are down...I believe the loser of Wigan v Blackburn 2nd last game of the season will be relegated.
QPR are worrying me I must admit...they seem to be doing a West Ham from 5 years ago when they went on this mad winning run towards the end of the season. I thought they'd nick a point against Arsenal but not win. Only positive I can see is they still keep losing away from home and their final four away games are West Brom, Chelsea, Manure and Man. City.
We need to scramble 4 points from the Bolton, Stoke and Sunderland home games and get a point from either west brom (who slowly are being dragged into this) or Norwich away. 38 points will be enough with the goal difference.
Even McLeish can manage that surely?!
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Not sure 35 points will be enough, 37 looks about right which is a win and a draw. Its getting the win that worries me.
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The bookmakers have 36 points needed to stay up. I would say 38 points and you are nailed on safe. So 1 win and 2 draws. That includes home games against Bolton, Sunderland and Stoke + away at Norwich and West Brom. Even with McLeish in charge and all the injuries I am very confident.
As for next season, if McLeish stays we will be one of the favourites for relegation.
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When he appointed McLeish last summer, the general cry of the fans was "but he plays shit negative football, and he gets teams relegated".
But hey, what do thousands of Villa fans know about the game compared to a chairman who probably had never watched a full 90 minutes of football in his life before 2006?
Now, look at where we are. We're 15th in the league. We're exactly where Blues were after 30 games in the league in terms of league position, except we actually have one point LESS than they had.
"Oh, but he had an injury crisis to deal with at Blues" the two or three remaining loyalists might say. Well, we too now have an injury crisis, which begs the question of whether maybe, just maybe we'd have got a few extra points when we had no injuries earlier this season, rather than giving up on too many matches practically before we'd started.
Sorry, but if we do not get relegated this season (and there's a very, very real chance we can, let's not kid ourselves), it is only staving off the inevitable.
The chairman is entirely clueless, and needs a strong, clued up manager to hold his hand. He hasn't got that now, and he's made possibly the worst appointment this club has made in decades.
Still, what does he care? He's hiding the other side of the Atlantic, having either given up caring or utterly, utterly bottled it.
Oh, and this is nothing about today, btw, this is everything about the many games this season we've been a spineless, embarassing fucking mess that really does not deserve to have the name "Aston Villa" associated with it.
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Another defeat, and the trapdoor appears to be getting ever closer.
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I think we'll be OK for this season. Next season fills me with dread.
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And just to illustrate how the momentum is right now:
- we have won ONE of our last NINE games.
- we have won TWO home games in very nearly five months
- we have taken 6 points from the last 27.
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I think we'll be OK for this season. Next season fills me with dread.
I'll be massively relieved just to get to the end of this season intact. Beyond that we need major surgery in every area. The ability to do that effectively fills me with concern. We need 6 or 7 game changing players.
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We were all but down in July, lets face it.
We all knew it, but many decided to take a positive view, some a more negative approach, but it didn't matter either way. The season has panned out almost exactly as you would expect, a really poor, negative minded manager dragging the players and the supporters down to a position of resignation about our fate.
The crushingly sad thing is that it was all so avoidable. Lets' hope for that one bit of luck, somewhere along the line, to save our skin, but we don't deserve it, thats for certain.
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And just to illustrate how the momentum is right now:
- we have won ONE of our last NINE games.
- we have won TWO home games in very nearly five months
- we have taken 6 points from the last 27.
You're not cheering me up.
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I have to agree, once again, with Paulie. As soon as the fixture list came out I saw we had a very difficult run in and that we needed to be well clear of trouble with 10 games left. Which is why I was very concerned when we were not winning many during our easier spells earlier in the season. Until recently the direness of the 5 below us made our position look better than it was, but they've pulled some unexpected wins out of the bag (would you back us to beat Arsenal or even Liverpool?). The mediocre form earlier in the season is now coming back to bite us on the arse, and we are in a very similar position to Blues last season. The good news is AM is used to a relegation fight. The bad news is he's used to losing them.
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And just to illustrate how the momentum is right now:
- we have won ONE of our last NINE games.
- we have won TWO home games in very nearly five months
- we have taken 6 points from the last 27.
You're not cheering me up.
That's because we are showing relegation form. That's what we have been showing all season. That's why the manager should have been sacked ages ago.
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There is another factor we need to consider. Pressure. As the gap narrows, and we start to get closer to those below us those 3 or 4 points we need will be even harder to come by.
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midfield is buggered. Just got to hope the teams below us don't get 6 points because i can't see us getting another one
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On a more positive note we have the same points as we had this time last year. the bottom three were all on at least 31 points then as well
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On a more positive note we have the same points as we had this time last year. the bottom three were all on at least 31 points then as well
However, last year we won at the Emirates, and beat Liverpool at home in the run in.
Right now, those are the sort of fixture our negative manager would look at as games where we need to keep the score down rather than opportunities to take points.
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And just to illustrate how the momentum is right now:
- we have won ONE of our last NINE games.
- we have won TWO home games in very nearly five months
- we have taken 6 points from the last 27.
The crazy thing is, that points to game ratio would almost certainly keep us up.
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On a more positive note we have the same points as we had this time last year. the bottom three were all on at least 31 points then as well
I hate to piss on your chips but we also had a fully fit squad including Darren Bent.
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On a more positive note we have the same points as we had this time last year. the bottom three were all on at least 31 points then as well
However, last year we won at the Emirates, and beat Liverpool at home in the run in.
Right now, those are the sort of fixture our negative manager would look at as games where we need to keep the score down rather than opportunities to take points.
Scary to think that had we retained Gary Mac as manager we'd probably be better off.
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The man has to go. Said on the match thread, we look rudderless. We fought back supremely well today, but then contrived to give it away again immediately. I know they were kids, but they were in the ascendancy, the corner came in and 2 players went completely unchallenged as they put it home. Ivanovich had scored in exactly the same place already too, and Heskey had just come on, without doubt with McLeish hoping to shore it up, but it completely took the momentum off us. We are going to struggle, badly. Last season over the last 10 games Petrov, Bent and Walker were exceptional, and dragged us out of trouble with ease. This season, we have no one of that quality in the side, Gabby is not a captain, as much as he has been poor form wise Collins was the leader out there today that we needed, and we look totally lacking in any direction. For me not signing a central midfield player in January after loaning Makoun and losing Jenas completely was a massive, massive mistake, and one we are going to live to regret.
In the famous words of Dad's Army - We're Dooooooomed.
QPR are picking up exceptional results and will have confidence, Bolton have won 3 in a row, Wigan have just beaten Liverpool away and Stoke at home, and Blackburn have been playing well for a couple of months and picked up decent points in that time. Of the 5 down there, we are easily the least inspiring and in the worst form bar Wolves who are down. McLeish has to go, we have to roll the dice, or we are gone.
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On a more positive note we have the same points as we had this time last year. the bottom three were all on at least 31 points then as well
However, last year we won at the Emirates, and beat Liverpool at home in the run in.
Right now, those are the sort of fixture our negative manager would look at as games where we need to keep the score down rather than opportunities to take points.
Scary to think that had we retained Gary Mac as manager we'd probably be better off.
Appointing him would have made more sense than giving it to this spineless muppet.
I honestly think the scariest thing is that, even if we stay up, McLeish is going to do nothing but suck the lifeblood out of the club for another season.
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Lerner and co playing russian roulette. Last season we still had some depth - this season pffftttt.......
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The man has to go. Said on the match thread, we look rudderless.
it is too late to replace him and do any good this season, I fear.
It's the fact he'll still be here with his negative bullshit and his O'Learian "everyone's fault but mine" attitude next season that worries me.
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The man has to go. Said on the match thread, we look rudderless.
it is too late to replace him and do any good this season, I fear.
It's the fact he'll still be here with his negative bullshit and his O'Learian "everyone's fault but mine" attitude next season that worries me.
I'm going to Sweden next year on exchange with the Uni. I don't think I'll miss the football too much somehow.
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Agree he must go now. He should really have gone after the Wigan game. Giving him until the end of the season is suicide.
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The man has to go. Said on the match thread, we look rudderless.
it is too late to replace him and do any good this season, I fear.
Getting rid at any time would be good news, he is a hinderance and the last bloke you want in a relegation fight.
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On a more positive note we have the same points as we had this time last year. the bottom three were all on at least 31 points then as well
However, last year we won at the Emirates, and beat Liverpool at home in the run in.
Right now, those are the sort of fixture our negative manager would look at as games where we need to keep the score down rather than opportunities to take points.
Scary to think that had we retained Gary Mac as manager we'd probably be better off.
Appointing him would have made more sense than giving it to this spineless muppet.
I honestly think the scariest thing is that, even if we stay up, McLeish is going to do nothing but suck the lifeblood out of the club for another season.
A small piece of me always wants to give a bloke the chance to build his own squad. Most of this lot had a life of luxury under MON, were a nightmare to manage under GH, and haven't done anything noteworthy under McLeish. The sooner a good amount of them are gone the better. Then there's the other side that accepts that his dismissal at the end of this season would give the fans a massive lift. Then I think about who the replacement might be and I'm left bricking it again. I really don't know how to feel anymore.
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A small piece of me always wants to give a bloke the chance to build his own squad. Most of this lot had a life of luxury under MON, were a nightmare to manage under GH, and haven't done anything noteworthy under McLeish. The sooner a good amount of them are gone the better. Then there's the other side that accepts that his dismissal at the end of this season would give the fans a massive lift. Then I think about who the replacement might be and I'm left bricking it again. I really don't know how to feel anymore.
I honestly think it would be incredibly deflating to keep this bloke on next season.
You're right, the players - many of them - have a lot to answer for, but time and time again this season it has been the managers tactics, which have either been piss poor or just negative.
As you hinted, the worst thing is that we'd probably replace him with someone even worse - that's just how fucking clueless our leaders are.
Five years into "Bright Future", how many of us thought it would have come to this?
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I think IF he keeps us up he will be give a chance to build his own side ..but I give him till xmas tops if we are the way we are now then he will be chopped.
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Lerner and co playing russian roulette. Last season we still had some depth - this season pffftttt.......
a
That is the situation, without a doubt.
This set of players, even with all the injuries, is capable of beating anybody on their day, if everything goes well. They are singularly not capable of putting a run of results together, and they are not capable of battling their way out of adversity.
We should be okay, but the Russian Roulette analogy is a good one, I would say.
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http://www.ftbpro.com/reader/21934/mcleish-insists-aston-villa-have-the-character-to-pull-away-from-premier-league-drop-zone?ref=ftbpro
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Its going to be tight but we'll just scrape by.
QPR have picked up two great results at home, but looking at their fixtures, I cannot see them getting out of it. Wolves have had it. Wigan will buy it this season. We need seven points and we've got to be looking set three minimum from next weekend at the Dipperdome and against Stoke.
United will do us a favour at Blackburn and at home to QPR.
What a dreadful season thus has been.
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Way i see it is I can't see anyone coming to us who could make anything out of the powderpuff midfield that is Bannon, Herd, Ireland, Gardner - its piss poor basically
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A small piece of me always wants to give a bloke the chance to build his own squad. Most of this lot had a life of luxury under MON, were a nightmare to manage under GH, and haven't done anything noteworthy under McLeish. The sooner a good amount of them are gone the better. Then there's the other side that accepts that his dismissal at the end of this season would give the fans a massive lift. Then I think about who the replacement might be and I'm left bricking it again. I really don't know how to feel anymore.
I honestly think it would be incredibly deflating to keep this bloke on next season.
You're right, the players - many of them - have a lot to answer for, but time and time again this season it has been the managers tactics, which have either been piss poor or just negative.
As you hinted, the worst thing is that we'd probably replace him with someone even worse - that's just how fucking clueless our leaders are.
Five years into "Bright Future", how many of us thought it would have come to this?
To think that we might be better off with a publicity seeking dictator like Doug in charge right now. At least he'd have chopped McLeish at the knees by now. Yeh, nobody saw this back in 2006.
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A small piece of me always wants to give a bloke the chance to build his own squad. Most of this lot had a life of luxury under MON, were a nightmare to manage under GH, and haven't done anything noteworthy under McLeish. The sooner a good amount of them are gone the better. Then there's the other side that accepts that his dismissal at the end of this season would give the fans a massive lift. Then I think about who the replacement might be and I'm left bricking it again. I really don't know how to feel anymore.
I honestly think it would be incredibly deflating to keep this bloke on next season.
You're right, the players - many of them - have a lot to answer for, but time and time again this season it has been the managers tactics, which have either been piss poor or just negative.
As you hinted, the worst thing is that we'd probably replace him with someone even worse - that's just how fucking clueless our leaders are.
Five years into "Bright Future", how many of us thought it would have come to this?
That would be some feat...
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We're effectively 6 pts clear of the bottom 3. Will two of the bottom 3 win two games...possibly. Will we not get at least another win or draw til the end of the season? Of course we will. We would have beaten most other teams today with the spirit we showed today, carry that on to the next lot and there will be no problem.
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Way i see it is I can't see anyone coming to us who could make anything out of the powderpuff midfield that is Bannon, Herd, Ireland, Gardner - its piss poor basically
Disagree with this - if McLueless had played a narrow MF 3 with GG, BB and Herd today we'd have been tighter and more creative. In a 4-3-1-2 formation (with Ireland as the 1 and GA and Weimann as a 2 upfront) we'd have been more difficult to break down and could have created more. As it was, deploying GG and BB wide wasted both players' talents and meant we were vulnerable through the middle.
The problem we have is partly the squad-personnel but is mainly the tactical limitations of the not-so-dynamic duo of McLueless and Peter Grant.
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He has to go now.
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[/quote]
if McLueless had played a narrow MF 3 with GG, BB and Herd today we'd have been tighter and more creative. In a 4-3-1-2 formation (with Ireland as the 1 and GA and Weimann as a 2 upfront) we'd have been more difficult to break down and could have created more. As it was, deploying GG and BB wide wasted both players' talents and meant we were vulnerable through the middle.
[/quote]
Agreed
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Way i see it is I can't see anyone coming to us who could make anything out of the powderpuff midfield that is Bannon, Herd, Ireland, Gardner - its piss poor basically
Disagree with this - if McLueless had played a narrow MF 3 with GG, BB and Herd today we'd have been tighter and more creative. In a 4-3-1-2 formation (with Ireland as the 1 and GA and Weimann as a 2 upfront) we'd have been more difficult to break down and could have created more. As it was, deploying GG and BB wide wasted both players' talents and meant we were vulnerable through the middle.
The problem we have is partly the squad-personnel but is mainly the tactical limitations of the not-so-dynamic duo of McLueless and Peter Grant.
Can't say i agree. any opposition manager worth his salt will look at our midfield and go "hmmm, a load of inexperienced kids lacking confidence..Ireland won't help them out much so i'll rough them up a bit and basically dominate them" I hate to think what "MON's Sunderland" will do to them - tear them a new hoop probably.
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I think there is a really strong chance of relegation at the moment.
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i still wouldnt swap places and fixtures with anyone below us
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For a few weeks now it has felt like we are hobbling to the finish line, desperately hoping no one catches up with us.
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Five years into "Bright Future", how many of us thought it would have come to this?
The thing about that call to arms 'Proud History, Bright Future' is that it doesn't mention the present, something the owners also neglect on the field.
Last week McLeish was harping on about the table saying the club needed to be looking up the league rather than behind us. Whilst I appreciate the sentiment, the truth of the current situation is that there is nothing more important right now than looking at those (relative to Villa) form teams coming up swiftly behind us and doing everything possible to ensure we finish at least 17th. Yes, it's not ideal, but the last 2 disastrous seasons have culminated in the next 5/6 weeks.
That said, McLeish will still be here next year, and I fully expect with near certainty to see us relegated this time next season if that is the case.
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Way i see it is I can't see anyone coming to us who could make anything out of the powderpuff midfield that is Bannon, Herd, Ireland, Gardner - its piss poor basically
Disagree with this - if McLueless had played a narrow MF 3 with GG, BB and Herd today we'd have been tighter and more creative. In a 4-3-1-2 formation (with Ireland as the 1 and GA and Weimann as a 2 upfront) we'd have been more difficult to break down and could have created more. As it was, deploying GG and BB wide wasted both players' talents and meant we were vulnerable through the middle.
The problem we have is partly the squad-personnel but is mainly the tactical limitations of the not-so-dynamic duo of McLueless and Peter Grant.
Can't say i agree. any opposition manager worth his salt will look at our midfield and go "hmmm, a load of inexperienced kids lacking confidence..Ireland won't help them out much so i'll rough them up a bit and basically dominate them" I hate to think what "MON's Sunderland" will do to them - tear them a new hoop probably.
Well, Greg, we didn't have a lot of choices about who to play in MF today. But we could have deployed them better than we did.
And to say that our rookie midfielders have no potential value (as you implied in your post) is not only depressing it's inaccurate.
That's all.
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i still wouldnt swap places and fixtures with anyone below us
well i wouldn't, but thats only because we've got 5 points more than them. Could just be the difference
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We're effectively 6 pts clear of the bottom 3. Will two of the bottom 3 win two games...possibly. Will we not get at least another win or draw til the end of the season? Of course we will. We would have beaten most other teams today with the spirit we showed today, carry that on to the next lot and there will be no problem.
Well said.
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Way i see it is I can't see anyone coming to us who could make anything out of the powderpuff midfield that is Bannon, Herd, Ireland, Gardner - its piss poor basically
Disagree with this - if McLueless had played a narrow MF 3 with GG, BB and Herd today we'd have been tighter and more creative. In a 4-3-1-2 formation (with Ireland as the 1 and GA and Weimann as a 2 upfront) we'd have been more difficult to break down and could have created more. As it was, deploying GG and BB wide wasted both players' talents and meant we were vulnerable through the middle.
The problem we have is partly the squad-personnel but is mainly the tactical limitations of the not-so-dynamic duo of McLueless and Peter Grant.
Can't say i agree. any opposition manager worth his salt will look at our midfield and go "hmmm, a load of inexperienced kids lacking confidence..Ireland won't help them out much so i'll rough them up a bit and basically dominate them" I hate to think what "MON's Sunderland" will do to them - tear them a new hoop probably.
Well, Greg, we didn't have a lot of choices about who to play in MF today. But we could have deployed them better than we did.
And to say that our rookie midfielders have no potential value (as you implied in your post) is not only depressing it's inaccurate.
That's all.
they have potential of course, but thats all it is, and asking them to realise that potential in a relegation battle against vastly more experienced opponents and no old heads to help them out is expecting a lot
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i still wouldnt swap places and fixtures with anyone below us
well i wouldn't, but thats only because we've got 5 points more than them. Could just be the difference
well thats how it works Greg, if you got more points than those below you stay up,
we are in a lot better position than those below us yet there are posters saying they are certain we are going down, yes its a possibility but a distant one at present.
although i will admit Wigan and Bolton have managers who have built there reputations on being successful at staying up whereas we have one who is ever so good at doing the opposite
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my predictor attempt shows us only getting 2 more points between now and last match with us being relegated on the last game....ouch!
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i still wouldnt swap places and fixtures with anyone below us
well i wouldn't, but thats only because we've got 5 points more than them. Could just be the difference
i still wouldnt swap places and fixtures with anyone below us
Wigan's next three games are Chelsea, united, arsenal, so there's a reasonsable change they won't get any closer over the next three games. The others look capable of getting any number of points more than us...mind you Robbie Savage reckons we'll beat Stoke so it's all ok (but will that team be knackered 2 days after Anfield?)
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my predictor attempt shows us only getting 2 more points between now and last match with us being relegated on the last game....ouch!
I think those two points will be enough to see us safe.
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my predictor attempt shows us only getting 2 more points between now and last match with us being relegated on the last game....ouch!
I think those two points will be enough to see us safe.
oh I do hope you're correct
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The predictor thing is dangerous at this time of the season. Teams that are safe stop playing and mentally switch off while the strugglers pick up unexpected results - it happens every year and in the case of Wigan and QPR has already started.
The real question is do we look like a side that can fight our way out of trouble by collecting a few wins, have we the firepower, can we keep clean sheets. I still think we'll need another 7-9 points this season to have no worries. I can see us getting another 3 (all draws) which might not be good enough.
Relegation is very much on the radar and has been all season tbh.
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A distinct possibility, I am worried about going down but I am more worried we will keep the Ginger Clown!
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The predictor thing is dangerous at this time of the season. Teams that are safe stop playing and mentally switch off while the strugglers pick up unexpected results - it happens every year and in the case of Wigan and QPR has already started.
The real question is do we look like a side that can fight our way out of trouble by collecting a few wins, have we the firepower, can we keep clean sheets. I still think we'll need another 7-9 points this season to have no worries. I can see us getting another 3 (all draws) which might not be good enough.
Relegation is very much on the radar and has been all season tbh.
I genuinely would bet everything I own on us not getting anything like 6 or 7 points between now and the end of the season.
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The predictor thing is dangerous at this time of the season. Teams that are safe stop playing and mentally switch off while the strugglers pick up unexpected results - it happens every year and in the case of Wigan and QPR has already started.
The real question is do we look like a side that can fight our way out of trouble by collecting a few wins, have we the firepower, can we keep clean sheets. I still think we'll need another 7-9 points this season to have no worries. I can see us getting another 3 (all draws) which might not be good enough.
Relegation is very much on the radar and has been all season tbh.
I genuinely would bet everything I own on us not getting anything like 6 or 7 points between now and the end of the season.
I'll take that bet, and wager 1p of my own against everything you own. Bet? "Anything like" = 5 or more points I take it?
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aye. can't see us getting a win for sure.
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The predictor thing is dangerous at this time of the season. Teams that are safe stop playing and mentally switch off while the strugglers pick up unexpected results - it happens every year and in the case of Wigan and QPR has already started.
The real question is do we look like a side that can fight our way out of trouble by collecting a few wins, have we the firepower, can we keep clean sheets. I still think we'll need another 7-9 points this season to have no worries. I can see us getting another 3 (all draws) which might not be good enough.
Relegation is very much on the radar and has been all season tbh.
I genuinely would bet everything I own on us not getting anything like 6 or 7 points between now and the end of the season.
I'll take that bet, and wager 1p of my own against everything you own. Bet? "Anything like" = 5 or more points I take it?
I'm a buddhist monk.
I own a pair of minging sandals and a bit of orange shawl. You're on!
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The predictor thing is dangerous at this time of the season. Teams that are safe stop playing and mentally switch off while the strugglers pick up unexpected results - it happens every year and in the case of Wigan and QPR has already started.
The real question is do we look like a side that can fight our way out of trouble by collecting a few wins, have we the firepower, can we keep clean sheets. I still think we'll need another 7-9 points this season to have no worries. I can see us getting another 3 (all draws) which might not be good enough.
Relegation is very much on the radar and has been all season tbh.
I genuinely would bet everything I own on us not getting anything like 6 or 7 points between now and the end of the season.
I'll take that bet, and wager 1p of my own against everything you own. Bet? "Anything like" = 5 or more points I take it?
I'm a buddhist monk.
I own a pair of minging sandals and a bit of orange shawl. You're on!
You do realise I will be going through the "What have you bought today?" thread with a fine toothcomb? Plus remember, every time you lie a fairy dies, do you really want that on your conscience?
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So let's say we collected 3 points between now and the end of the season, that'd leave us on 36 points.
That's real 50%-50% territory. Anything less and we'd probably get relegated.
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The predictor thing is dangerous at this time of the season. Teams that are safe stop playing and mentally switch off while the strugglers pick up unexpected results - it happens every year and in the case of Wigan and QPR has already started.
The real question is do we look like a side that can fight our way out of trouble by collecting a few wins, have we the firepower, can we keep clean sheets. I still think we'll need another 7-9 points this season to have no worries. I can see us getting another 3 (all draws) which might not be good enough.
Relegation is very much on the radar and has been all season tbh.
I genuinely would bet everything I own on us not getting anything like 6 or 7 points between now and the end of the season.
I'll take that bet, and wager 1p of my own against everything you own. Bet? "Anything like" = 5 or more points I take it?
I'm a buddhist monk.
I own a pair of minging sandals and a bit of orange shawl. You're on!
You do realise I will be going through the "What have you bought today?" thread with a fine toothcomb? Plus remember, every time you lie a fairy dies, do you really want that on your conscience?
Peace be with you, shin of bearded one.
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So let's say we collected 3 points between now and the end of the season, that'd leave us on 36 points.
That's real 50%-50% territory. Anything less and we'd probably get relegated.
30 games of last season - Blues in 15th place with 34 points. That's enough to be quite scared about.
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I've said said all season that we were not in any danger of going down but looking at the table now I have to admit that I am succumbing to some pangs of concern. This is not due to any confidence that I had in our performances but more to the dreadfulness of the sises below us but Wolves aside, they have begun to accumulate some points which is worrying.
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Its a possibility
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We'll beat Stoke and Sunderland, then play out a 4-4 thriller at Norwich to round things off. Safe, just.
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It's not the position that's the overall worry its the players we have left ,we are relying on the kids some playing out of position to keep us up.We don't score enough and we can't defend it's a recipe for the chop.
Stoke ,Bolton and WBA are the games I see keeping us up , in terms of wins and maybe just maybe a draw away to Liverpool.
Mcliesh could point to injuries as an excuse now but with a full strength team earlier in the season we were hardly setting the world alight so I hope to god he keeps us up then piss's off
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We could go. We really are in a lot of trouble and I can't see a way out.
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Relegation is a serious possibility. Especially with our run in, as well as the injuries we've got.
The thing that worries me is that the teams around us seem able to pick up points against the big sides, while we just roll over for them.
In all honesty, I think we'll survive by the skin of our teeth, but next season we're fucked.
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Bolton 39 pts
Villa 36
QPR 35
Wigan 34
Blackburn 33
Wolves 23
We will draw against Stoke, Bolton and Norwich.
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Wigan's next 3 games are Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal.
QPR have to play Man City, Chelsea, Spurs and Man Utd.
Blackburn have Man Utd, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea.
Bolton only have Spurs.
We will survive. It wont be pretty but we will do it.
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Immediately prior to Norwich game in my view:
Bolton 39
Villa 35
QPR 35
Blackburn 33
Wigan 31
Wolves 23
We will only be concerned about Blackburn against Chelsea and QPR against Man City. It will be hell.
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I must admit I am now officially shitting myself.
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I must admit I am now officially shitting myself.
This. I am terrified. I've never been so worried about the chop before.
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bang in trouble at the moment. qpr have picked up a couple of wins lately. bolton with 3 points again today. out of nowhere wigan are winning games. I reckon we are in worse form than those 3 anyway. in the midst of an injury crisis and our young players are struggling badly to make the step up.
we are badly in need of a couple of the experienced players coming back - cuellar, dunne, clark, nzogbia. someone like clark would be a big plus, just to have a physical presence in midfield. the likes of baker are nowhere near good enough for the EPL. Herd is badly struggling at the moment. Gardner and Bannan are also lost out there. Albrighton did well for the second goal but has been muck aside from that in recent games. Gabby hasnt scored a goal in months. there is precious little to get enthused about.
Cuellar back next to Collins will strengthen things at the back. But at just the wrong time of the season we look a rabble throughout the side.
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I had been using the BBC football predictor as a source of comfort. I got Villa in the relegation positions this morning-it could happen.
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Immediately prior to Norwich game in my view:
Bolton 39
Villa 35
QPR 35
Blackburn 33
Wigan 31
Wolves 23
We will only be concerned about Blackburn against Chelsea and QPR against Man City. It will be hell.
This is a case of deja vu - remember the 94-95 season? We needed a result at Norwich on the final day and got a 1-1 draw, although I think Newcastle lost at Newcastle that day anyway.
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Immediately prior to Norwich game in my view:
Bolton 39
Villa 35
QPR 35
Blackburn 33
Wigan 31
Wolves 23
We will only be concerned about Blackburn against Chelsea and QPR against Man City. It will be hell.
This is a case of deja vu - remember the 94-95 season? We needed a result at Norwich on the final day and got a 1-1 draw, although I think Newcastle lost at Newcastle that day anyway.
Sorry - West Ham lost at Newcastle!!
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It's got to the stage where even Albion who everyone reckoned were nailed on safe have to start looking over their shoulder. Failing to beat either Wigan or Blackburn has really come back to bite us.
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Well said Clampy. Yesterday's defeat to one of the best teams in europe with their confidence newly restored and a star struck official, did not come as unexpected. The reason we are where we are is that games like Blackburn and Wigan were not put to bed the way they should have been.
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We can't start dwelling on dropped points or missed opportunities there will be plenty of time to pick over the bones after the season ends. We now have a load of inexperienced kids that somehow need dragging over the finish line. If we go into games against Stoke and the like thinking we'll get beat that will transmit to the players, stay positive stop using the bbc doom calculator and lets keep yesterdays noise going for the remaining home games.
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We've been in a relegation fight since December, I got shot down for saying it on here back then, but we are fucked, Mcleish does not know how to motivate a team and nor does he know how to keep a team up from this position.
I really have worried about relegation, that rearranged game against Bolton is massive and hopefully all the lads will be well up for MON's return.
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I must admit I am now officially shitting myself.
Dodgy curry? Get the andrex.
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Currently you can get anything from 14-1 down to 10-1 for us to be relegated.
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Currently you can get anything from 14-1 down to 10-1 for us to be relegated.
Only 8 to 1 to finish in the top 10.
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Currently you can get anything from 14-1 down to 10-1 for us to be relegated.
Those are good odds. Considering the injury problems, current form, the remaining games, and not to mention the manager we are lumbered with, I would say more realistic odds are about 3-1 to 4-1. A visit to the bookies beckons.
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And taking into account Wigan and QPR are in form.
The Bolton game could be massive.
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The luck isn't with us either-the original date for the Bolton game suited Villa better on the back of the Fulham game.Now it's become massive in light of yesterday's results. I'm not confident, I think it will depend if QPR, Bolton etc continue to pick up points.i don't fancy the current first eleven in a fight for survival
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We've been in a relegation fight since December, I got shot down for saying it on here back then, but we are fucked, Mcleish does not know how to motivate a team and nor does he know how to keep a team up from this position.
I really have worried about relegation, that rearranged game against Bolton is massive and hopefully all the lads will be well up for MON's return.
For further support that the relegation battle started in 2011 - http://footballspeak.com/post/2011/12/06/Are-you-City-in-disguise.aspx (http://footballspeak.com/post/2011/12/06/Are-you-City-in-disguise.aspx)
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Any chance of having Bent back by the end of the season!? Looking at those out, Clark, Dunne, NZogbia could all be back by the last week in April, and hopefully then Delph might be back start of May. We need all the bodies we can muster.
If we do stay up and this clown in still here, he needs to be allowed to get at least 5 more players in net of the squad we have now. 2 seasons in a row injuries have decimated us.
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I am pretty upbeat about our chances of beating Stoke, unless they get any corners.
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1 win and 1 draw should see us (just about) ok I reckon...or even 4 draws. Bolton, Norwich, Sunderland, Stoke, Baggies...surely we can scrape 4 points from those games... :(
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...or throw-ins.
Take your pick which post I'm adding to (PW's).
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Tell you what I would love it if we beat Stoke from a long throw in ..
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Just looked at the comparative stats for Bloose at thisn point last season - our wins-draws-losses are almost exactly the same; our goals-against average and points-per-game average are almost identical and we have scored 5 goals more than they had.
Which - stating the bleedin, obvious - means to me that our P'ship status is in the hands of others in the division (since I don't think we will win many more points, given both the record to date and the players' availability).
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1 win and 1 draw should see us (just about) ok I reckon...or even 4 draws. Bolton, Norwich, Sunderland, Stoke, Baggies...surely we can scrape 4 points from those games... :(
With a full strength team and a crap manager - yes
With an under strength team and a crap manager-no
So no I'm not at all confident we will
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1 win and 1 draw should see us (just about) ok I reckon...or even 4 draws. Bolton, Norwich, Sunderland, Stoke, Baggies...surely we can scrape 4 points from those games... :(
With a full strength team and a crap manager - yes
With an under strength team and a crap manager-no
So no I'm not at all confident we will
The way it's going nor am I it has to be said....and I just know that the Liverpool game is the one where they bounce back to form and Gerrard gets a bagful...
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All I can say is our GD is worth another point. Will come down to the home games versus Bolton and Stoke and the Baggies away. One win from those and a couple of draws along the way should give us 38 which ought to be enough.
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I think we are going down. All the others teams are winning and we are not. Plus the fact we have terrible injuries and thus a very young squad. Add to this a manager who unfortunately will try to only draw each game until the end of the season, because that's his way. He simply hasn't learnt from last season and is showing what a poor poor manager he is. In some ways the board deserve what they are getting from such a crass and stupid appointment. We the fans do not!
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As we know we are on 33pts and with the fixtures others have to play and Villa capable of getting several draws including against a poor liverpool side @ home next week. The facts that teams have to play each other and that we play bolton make me convinced we will be epl side.
I dont have any major concern about relegation. More frustration with whats happend this season.
Liverpool v Aston Villa
Aston Villa v Stoke
Man Utd v Aston Villa
Aston Villa v Sunderland
Aston Villa v Bolton
West Brom v Aston Villa
Aston Villa v Tottenham
Norwich v Aston Villa
Good home form but tough games including defeat to man u
Blackburn
Man Utd h
WBA a
Liverpool h
Swansea a
Norwich h
Spurs h
Wigan h
Chelsea a
Poor team but have points in bag may stay up due to Qpr and wigan being worse off points wise and having harder matches
Bolton
Fulham h
Newcastle a
Swansea h
Villa a
Sunderland a
Spurs h TBC
Home form and atmosphere very positive but play away from home and discipline coupled with toughest run in
Qpr
Man Utd a
Swansea h
West Brom a
Spurs h
Chelsea a
Stoke h
Man city a
Wigan likely to implode as there good run cant last .a beating against some of the big boys will occur -its as seasonaly as there escape act - shud be mentioned!!
Wigan
Chelsea
Man Utd
Arsenal
Fulham
Newcastle
Blackburn
Wolves
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I woke up this morning to a calm acceptance.
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Robert Johnson?
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I woke up this morning to a calm acceptance.
We are playing badly, have poor leadership off the field and threadbare squad due to injuries. Teams below us (exept Wolves) are playing with passion, belief and are getting results. We will only stay up if with some luck and the fact that other teams leave it too late to catch us up!
Anyway, if we do go down, for me it would bring a season of challenge and hope and I will still support and watch my team!!
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Well said Clampy. Yesterday's defeat to one of the best teams in europe with their confidence newly restored and a star struck official, did not come as unexpected. The reason we are where we are is that games like Blackburn and Wigan were not put to bed the way they should have been.
I know who I blame for that.
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Looking at those figures you'd expect Wigan to be adrift by the time they play Fulham. Jalap think Blackburn to lose their next two.
Simply put, if we beat Stoke, which we should be aiming to do, then I think we'll be safe, as we'll pick up enough draws thereafter. We should beat Bolton too.
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Well said Clampy. Yesterday's defeat to one of the best teams in europe with their confidence newly restored and a star struck official, did not come as unexpected. The reason we are where we are is that games like Blackburn and Wigan were not put to bed the way they should have been.
Exactly right. We shouldn't be at the stage where we're relying on getting the rub of the green against Chelsea.
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The home form he's not been anywhere near good enough. I can never remember a season when we were such a light touch at home.
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Robert Johnson?
Go dust your broom
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The danger with doom and gloom stuff is that it all becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and that, I believe, is our greatest enemy at this moment in time.
It's time for back to basics positivity again. We've got the players - I've no doubt about that - to get the points on the board. Like the run in to last season, we've simply got to get right behind our young team and lift them up the table. The experience and growing up these kids will have to do between now and season's close will benefit them (and Aston Villa) for years and years to come.
It's time for fortress Villa and for the fans and team being totally focused and together. There's twenty-four points left to play for and we need to lift the boys and help them take as many as we can.
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The danger with doom and gloom stuff is that it all becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and that, I believe, is our greatest enemy at this moment in time.
It's time for back to basics positivity again. We've got the players - I've no doubt about that - to get the points on the board. Like the run in to last season, we've simply got to get right behind our young team and lift them up the table. The experience and growing up these kids will have to do between now and season's close will benefit them (and Aston Villa) for years and years to come.
It's time for fortress Villa and for the fans and team being totally focused and together. There's twenty-four points left to play for and we need to lift the boys and help them take as many as we can.
It's true Billy, come match day and during the game we have to be 100% behind them to keep their confidence up. However, the thing I'm mostly worried about is that there's only so much you can do about a team who disdain possession in favour of hoofing it clear out of panic.
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The danger with doom and gloom stuff is that it all becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and that, I believe, is our greatest enemy at this moment in time.
It's time for back to basics positivity again. We've got the players - I've no doubt about that - to get the points on the board. Like the run in to last season, we've simply got to get right behind our young team and lift them up the table. The experience and growing up these kids will have to do between now and season's close will benefit them (and Aston Villa) for years and years to come.
It's time for fortress Villa and for the fans and team being totally focused and together. There's twenty-four points left to play for and we need to lift the boys and help them take as many as we can.
It's true Billy, come match day and during the game we have to be 100% behind them to keep their confidence up. However, the thing I'm mostly worried about is that there's only so much you can do about a team who disdain possession in favour of hoofing it clear out of panic.
I suppose this is where our support comes in. The lads need to know we are right behind them, and that there's no need to panic. Villa Park genuinely has to be the twelfth man once more. The only panicking will be done by the opposition!
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The irony is most of us on here are more negative than McLeish, perhaps we are a match made in Heaven?
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I think galvanising the support will be an extremely difficult task As regardless of what happens this season, he's still going to be here next ,and everybody knows it
It's like being sat on death row waiting for the inevitable to happen which will be if not this season, then the next
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I get Bolton safe before the last game.
15 Wigan 40 points, beat Wolves last game
16 Villa 38, draw at Norwich
17 Albion 37, lose to Arsenal but only 2-1 to stay up by one goal of goal difference
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18 Blackburn 37, get impressive draw at nothing-to-play-for-Chelsea but it proves not enough
19 QPR 36, last day loss at title-chasing Man City but Man U still win title by winning at Mons
20 Wolves 26, down ages ago
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If we can't get 5 points from Bolton,Sunderland and Stoke,then we are a lot worse than i thought we were(and i think were no good at the minute) McCleish showed last season,that once the ship starts to sink,he doesnt have the powers to recover it,the difference from last season is that its a poorer division and wont take as many points to stay up.
But the way QPR and Bolton have picked up is a real worry,but as i say at the top,if we cant get those five points then we deserve to be in the Championship next season.
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I think that in the space of 3 weeks we have moved as candidates for relegation from unlikely to possible to probable. Maybe in 3 weeks time we will be certain. I think it will be Wolves, villa and either QPR or Wigan.
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I think that in the space of 3 weeks we have moved as candidates for relegation from unlikely to possible to probable. Maybe in 3 weeks time we will be certain. I think it will be Wolves, villa and either QPR or Wigan.
See QPR's run is just so horrendous that I think it will be Wolves, QPR and Wigan or Villa.
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Yes Monty,i think it'll be QPR,Wolves and one other. Wigan have so much experience of hitting form around April and scrapping enough points together.
If they pip us,McCleish should be hung up by his privates for the back to wall stuff we payed up at the DW recently.
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We are 17th in the PL Form table The bottom 3 being
Norwich
Liverpool
Wolves
Bearing in mind 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' and Norwich are safe.That is worrying
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Liverpool (a) D
Stoke (h) W
Man Utd (a) L
Sunderland (h) D
Bolton (h) W
West Brom (a) W
Tottenham (h) D
Norwich (a) L
We'll be fine.
*Please McGrath, let us be fine!*
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We are 17th in the PL Form table The bottom 3 being
Norwich
Liverpool
Wolves
Bearing in mind 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' and Norwich are safe.That is worrying
Or - put another way - we play two of the three worst currently-performing teams ... no, it didn't convince me either.
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I just can't see us winning another game, I really can't. Fcuk me I hope I'm wrong but I think we are done for.
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I just can't see us winning another game, I really can't. Fcuk me I hope I'm wrong but I think we are done for.
Go to the bookies then.
I've had £25 on us to go down just in case. Obviously I hope I lose.
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I think galvanising the support will be an extremely difficult task As regardless of what happens this season, he's still going to be here next ,and everybody knows it
It's like being sat on death row waiting for the inevitable to happen which will be if not this season, then the next
For that reason, a small part of me actually wants us to go down. Never felt that way before. I don't subscribe to the notion that relegation can sometimes make you take stock and bounce back stronger. Newcastle are the exception rather than the rule.
But I don't want to go through another season like this one, so maybe bring the pain forward early, so to speak.
A secondary (and far less important) reason is I wonder how Merson, Neville and even some of our own on this site who should know better could possibly defend the bloke if he took two sides down in the space of 12 months. Both of whom who - personnel wise- were not the one of the three worst teams in the division.
For all that -and perhaps rather inspite of rather than because of the manager- I reckon we WILL stay up. But that will probably owe as much to the shortcomings of others, be that the sides we face or the sides also battling the drop.
Around this time last year we were looking over our shoulder and pulled away quite comfortably in the end. In 1994/95 we had the look of a side on a downward spiral -particularly after being battered by Arsenal at home during the Easter period. We did go into the final game with an outside chance of going down, but it would have taken something like Palace beating Newcastle 4-0 away and ourselves losing to Norwich.
It might go to the penultimate game, or the final week but we'll be okay I reckon. That will NOT qualify as a job well done by McLeish however. And if there is any justice, he will be given his cards straight after the Norwich match.
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More than the defeats themselves, it's the manner of how we are playing and losing that alarms me. Last year we had top players like Ash, Bent, Downing to help pull us through. We are literally down to th bare bones now. I really don't know where the inspiration is going to come from to get everyone going. Keane could have been that player if he was still here. I'm scared that one team below us will find a way to bridge the gap and condemn us on the last day.
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I have to say, I would well understand if a neutral said they'd prefer Wigan to stay up rather than us. Wolves and QPR are equally deserving (as football club hierarchies, of course) of being punished, but the football Wigan always try to play is commendable, and far more deserving of reward than McLeish's soulless attempts to rob the sport of all joy, passion and fun.
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We won't get relegated. We're too good to go down. We'll get 10 points before the season is over. We'll also come above West Brom.
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Small Heath took 5 points from their last 8 games last year so if we can match that it should be enough.
We were on 33 points after 30 games last year too. It'll take less points to stay up because the top two especially will end up with far more than last year. The top team got 80 (Man U are now on73) runners up got 71 which is what Man C are on now. Also the bottom 3 teams were at least 4 points better off than they are now. Convinced? Nah nor me!
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We won't get relegated. We're too good to go down. We'll get 10 points before the season is over. We'll also come above West Brom.
So villa will win 3 more games minimum. Can't see that. Villa will get 1 more win from the remaining fixtures which will be just enough.
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Imagine what the mood must be like within the club with the news of Stan. It's bound to have a really negative impact and I can't see them shaking it off in time. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we lost every remaining match.
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I'm gonna have a bet on us going down.
I never win.
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
Well said, that man.
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
My feelings exactly. YOUR CLUB NEEDS YOU!.
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Agreed.
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Cannot argue with that one bit. It's time for everyone to put all the shit to one side (until after 13 May anyway), and do their bit. This means getting behind the team, all of them, and help them to drag us out of trouble. Let's do it.
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We won't get relegated. We're too good to go down. We'll get 10 points before the season is over. We'll also come above West Brom.
Given the garbage we've served up for most of this season in relation to the quality of our squad compared to teams below us, we certainly aren't too good to go down.
We'll be o.k though.
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We need players back for sure.
Only two out for the season AFAIK is Darren Bent and Petrov.
We need N'zogbia, Clark (who was supposed to only be out for a month), Dunne and Delph all back for the Sunderland game which will be the crucial week as we have Bolton and then West Brom after that.
If they're all back, we'll get the points required.
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I get Bolton safe before the last game.
15 Wigan 40 points, beat Wolves last game
16 Villa 38, draw at Norwich
17 Albion 37, lose to Arsenal but only 2-1 to stay up by one goal of goal difference
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18 Blackburn 37, get impressive draw at nothing-to-play-for-Chelsea but it proves not enough
19 QPR 36, last day loss at title-chasing Man City but Man U still win title by winning at Mons
20 Wolves 26, down ages ago
Out of interest, how the hell do you get Wigan on 40 points???!!!
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
I don't blame anyone for not turning up after the rubbish that's been offered this season. People need to look at themselves? That's a hell of a generalisation, given the economic climate. Not every missing fan is watching games in pubs and many who watch on streams live too far away to attend on a regular basis. You can be certain that the team will get the vocal backing, should it be 30,000 or 40,000.
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
I don't blame anyone for not turning up after the rubbish that's been offered this season. People need to look at themselves? That's a hell of a generalisation, given the economic climate. Not every missing fan is watching games in pubs and many who watch on streams live too far away to attend on a regular basis. You can be certain that the team will get the vocal backing, should it be 30,000 or 40,000.
Have to agree with this. I like the sentiment of Hoppo's post, but as much as we'd like, we can't all get to Villa Park all that often.
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
I don't blame anyone for not turning up after the rubbish that's been offered this season. People need to look at themselves? That's a hell of a generalisation, given the economic climate. Not every missing fan is watching games in pubs and many who watch on streams live too far away to attend on a regular basis. You can be certain that the team will get the vocal backing, should it be 30,000 or 40,000.
Quite right, I bet most people on here have been to more games than Lerner this season.
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
I don't blame anyone for not turning up after the rubbish that's been offered this season. People need to look at themselves? That's a hell of a generalisation, given the economic climate. Not every missing fan is watching games in pubs and many who watch on streams live too far away to attend on a regular basis. You can be certain that the team will get the vocal backing, should it be 30,000 or 40,000.
Quite right, I bet most people on here have been to more games than Lerner this season.
Agreed. And let's not forget the stoke game is on bank holiday Monday. Some may want to spend time with the kids/family. Those of us that are there will just have to shout a bit louder.
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
I don't blame anyone for not turning up after the rubbish that's been offered this season. People need to look at themselves? That's a hell of a generalisation, given the economic climate. Not every missing fan is watching games in pubs and many who watch on streams live too far away to attend on a regular basis. You can be certain that the team will get the vocal backing, should it be 30,000 or 40,000.
How is it a generalisation when he specifically says anyone close enough and who has the funds?
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
Sacking Mcleish would put 10k on the gate. Oh and our chairman should hang his head in shame not the fans that can't make it
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I would love to be able to make it to games but when it involves a 550 mile round trip plus the cost of tickets/parking and the fact the football is dull (to be polite) then for the present I will spend my money elsewhere on more important stuff.
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
I don't blame anyone for not turning up after the rubbish that's been offered this season. People need to look at themselves? That's a hell of a generalisation, given the economic climate. Not every missing fan is watching games in pubs and many who watch on streams live too far away to attend on a regular basis. You can be certain that the team will get the vocal backing, should it be 30,000 or 40,000.
How is it a generalisation when he specifically says anyone close enough and who has the funds?
Even if somebody "has the funds" and lives near by, what business is it of anybody else's how they spend their time/money?
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
Sacking Mcleish would put 10k on the gate. Oh and our chairman should hang his head in shame not the fans that can't make it
I wont be hanging my head in shame at not going, I'd rather spend the money on a Mcdonalds for my kids than put another penny in the pocket of Lerner and Mctwat. Maybe people going should hang their heads in shame as they are propping up this shit stewardship of the club I love.
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
I don't blame anyone for not turning up after the rubbish that's been offered this season. People need to look at themselves? That's a hell of a generalisation, given the economic climate. Not every missing fan is watching games in pubs and many who watch on streams live too far away to attend on a regular basis. You can be certain that the team will get the vocal backing, should it be 30,000 or 40,000.
How is it a generalisation when he specifically says anyone close enough and who has the funds?
Even if somebody "has the funds" and lives near by, what business is it of anybody else's how they spend their time/money?
Yeah how dare anyone try and rally support when we need it. He'll be suggesting people sing at a game next. Disgraceful.
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
Sacking Mcleish would put 10k on the gate. Oh and our chairman should hang his head in shame not the fans that can't make it
I've banged on about Lerner's incompetence in the past, but I'm starting to think more and more that he simply doesn't give a shit anymore.
I think he liked the idea of having an English football club but was totally ignorant of the fact that it needs continual investment.
He has got an AVFC tattoo on his ankle though, how many Villa fans can say THAT?*
(*quote from one of the General's posts)
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Is this thread going to turn into one of those tiresome, never ending 'I'm a better fan than yow' capers?
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Agreed. And let's not forget the stoke game is on bank holiday Monday. Some may want to spend time with the kids/family. Those of us that are there will just have to shout a bit louder.
I'll be there Pauline, but as is now my custom, I'll Anesthetize myself before hand with copious amounts of Guinness.
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Is this thread going to turn into one of those tiresome, never ending 'I'm a better fan than yow' capers?
Maybe it wouldn't turn into one if everytime someone suggest trying to get behind the team someone else didn't trot out the better fan than yow line?
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
Sacking Mcleish would put 10k on the gate. Oh and our chairman should hang his head in shame not the fans that can't make it
I wont be hanging my head in shame at not going, I'd rather spend the money on a Mcdonalds for my kids than put another penny in the pocket of Lerner and Mctwat. Maybe people going should hang their heads in shame as they are propping up this shit stewardship of the club I love.
And of course you shouldn't. Can't, however, agree that people going should maybe hang their heads in shame. As stated before Managers,owners,players come and go, some supporters keep going to games because that is what they do. They'll still be there, God willing,when any stewardship etc have long gone.
Each to their own.
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
I don't blame anyone for not turning up after the rubbish that's been offered this season. People need to look at themselves? That's a hell of a generalisation, given the economic climate. Not every missing fan is watching games in pubs and many who watch on streams live too far away to attend on a regular basis. You can be certain that the team will get the vocal backing, should it be 30,000 or 40,000.
How is it a generalisation when he specifically says anyone close enough and who has the funds?
Even if somebody "has the funds" and lives near by, what business is it of anybody else's how they spend their time/money?
Yeah how dare anyone try and rally support when we need it. He'll be suggesting people sing at a game next. Disgraceful.
By all means try and rally support. Saying people should be ashamed for not going though, isn't the way to do it in my opinion.
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
I don't blame anyone for not turning up after the rubbish that's been offered this season. People need to look at themselves? That's a hell of a generalisation, given the economic climate. Not every missing fan is watching games in pubs and many who watch on streams live too far away to attend on a regular basis. You can be certain that the team will get the vocal backing, should it be 30,000 or 40,000.
How is it a generalisation when he specifically says anyone close enough and who has the funds?
Even if somebody "has the funds" and lives near by, what business is it of anybody else's how they spend their time/money?
Yeah how dare anyone try and rally support when we need it. He'll be suggesting people sing at a game next. Disgraceful.
That's not just what he's doing though. A simple "come on lads, let's get behind the team" argument is one thing - telling people that, for not using their money in a certain way, they should be ashamed is entirely another.
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Agreed. And let's not forget the stoke game is on bank holiday Monday. Some may want to spend time with the kids/family. Those of us that are there will just have to shout a bit louder.
I'll be there Pauline, but as is now my custom, I'll Anesthetize myself before hand with copious amounts of Guinness.
Hmmmmm. That sounds like a plan although I don't tend to drink before games. I shall certainly make up for it afterwards.
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Our goal difference is -9, Blackburn and QPR both -19, Bolton -24, Wigan -26.
I confidently predict we will be 3-0 down at Norwich on the final day and going down, when Heskey comes on and scores a goal in the 94th minute to keep us up on goal difference. So stop worrying everybody.
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Is this thread going to turn into one of those tiresome, never ending 'I'm a better fan than yow' capers?
Maybe it wouldn't turn into one if everytime someone suggest trying to get behind the team someone else didn't trot out the better fan than yow line?
I didn't trot it out as a result of suggesting support for the team, most people who I know scream themselves hoarse giving the team vocal support, surely it's a given that anybody attending will give it their all.
That said, if people are getting depressed or fed up by the fayre on offer, I don't blame them for not wanting to attend, everybody has a tipping point.
All the negative comments are borne of a frustration that 99% of people know that McLeish is not the man for the job, but the owner either thinks otherwise, or simply does not care enough any more to take action.
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That's not just what he's doing though. A simple "come on lads, let's get behind the team" argument is one thing - telling people that, for not using their money in a certain way, they should be ashamed is entirely another.
Exactly Monty.
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Agreed. And let's not forget the stoke game is on bank holiday Monday. Some may want to spend time with the kids/family. Those of us that are there will just have to shout a bit louder.
I'll be there Pauline, but as is now my custom, I'll Anesthetize myself before hand with copious amounts of Guinness.
Hmmmmm. That sounds like a plan although I don't tend to drink before games. I shall certainly make up for it afterwards.
I NEVER used to drink pre-match, now I have to, in the absence of a crack pipe.
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
I don't blame anyone for not turning up after the rubbish that's been offered this season. People need to look at themselves? That's a hell of a generalisation, given the economic climate. Not every missing fan is watching games in pubs and many who watch on streams live too far away to attend on a regular basis. You can be certain that the team will get the vocal backing, should it be 30,000 or 40,000.
How is it a generalisation when he specifically says anyone close enough and who has the funds?
Even if somebody "has the funds" and lives near by, what business is it of anybody else's how they spend their time/money?
Yeah how dare anyone try and rally support when we need it. He'll be suggesting people sing at a game next. Disgraceful.
By all means try and rally support. Saying people should be ashamed for not going though, isn't the way to do it in my opinion.
Maybe he shouldn't have said that bit I agree, but it seems just lately anytime anyone on here suggests supporting the team now that we really need it is derided and called a sheep etc.
My view point has always been, when we're in the shit the club needs us more than ever, regardless of what anyone thinks of the owner or manger. Neither of those are likely to change before the end of the season. But maybe what we do as supporters can help things on the pitch between now and the end of the season.
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I think some on here and elsewhere need to look at themselves. Of course you cant expect every fan to make it to Stoke but any 'fan' who doesnt make it down who lives reasonably close and has the funds to do so should hang their heads in shame if they are not at the game. Were in the shit big time and our club needs what help it can get. Forget Lerner forget McLeish forget all the boring football just get down Villa Park and support the team. Sat at your PC/ Laptop watching a shit stream isnt good enough for this one. Dont watch it in a crap backstreet boozer spending #30 on beer do your bit for OUR club..
Sacking Mcleish would put 10k on the gate. Oh and our chairman should hang his head in shame not the fans that can't make it
I've banged on about Lerner's incompetence in the past, but I'm starting to think more and more that he simply doesn't give a shit anymore.
I think he liked the idea of having an English football club but was totally ignorant of the fact that it needs continual investment.
He has got an AVFC tattoo on his ankle though, how many Villa fans can say THAT?*
(*quote from one of the General's posts)
It's an interesting point.
We've all bought into the "we need to get the wagebill down/ be more self sustainable" mantra, but did he really think that spending big up top and then hoping to spend next to nothing after 3/4 years was feasible? Even if we had actually cracked CL?
Football doesn't operate like most regular businesses, and if he is in anyway serious about this, he must have known that the level of financial commitment would need to be (a) large and (b) ongoing.
Maybe I am being harsh, perhaps he DID intend to make fairly sizeable investments year on year, but events changed that. Namely the 2008 credit crunch and his divorce. (I would include the money being thrown at Man Citeh by the Arabs, but he would have been naive in the extreme to think that he would have been the only new billionaire owner in town with the high profile the league now enjoys across the globe).
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You mentioned that word in your post Kevin, which I think sums Lerner up perfectly.
Naive.
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Maybe he shouldn't have said that bit I agree, but it seems just lately anytime anyone on here suggests supporting the team now that we really need it is derided and called a sheep etc.
My view point has always been, when we're in the shit the club needs us more than ever, regardless of what anyone thinks of the owner or manger. Neither of those are likely to change before the end of the season. But maybe what we do as supporters can help things on the pitch between now and the end of the season.
Well I think we agree then. If you can, go and sing your heart out. I won't be there, but was at five of the last six home and away so bearing in mind the cost involved I've done my bit for the season I feel.
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Agreed. And let's not forget the stoke game is on bank holiday Monday. Some may want to spend time with the kids/family. Those of us that are there will just have to shout a bit louder.
I'll be there Pauline, but as is now my custom, I'll Anesthetize myself before hand with copious amounts of Guinness.
Hmmmmm. That sounds like a plan although I don't tend to drink before games. I shall certainly make up for it afterwards.
I NEVER used to drink pre-match, now I have to, in the absence of a crack pipe.
I think I may need to try it rather than sit there day dreaming.
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Current form since the last game in December (pts)
Wolves 5
Red Scouse 8
Us 10
QPR 11
Stoke 12
Wigan 13
Blackburn / WBA 14
Bolton 16
Wigan in 18th place had 15 points on Jan 1st
We need to win games.
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Agreed. And let's not forget the stoke game is on bank holiday Monday. Some may want to spend time with the kids/family. Those of us that are there will just have to shout a bit louder.
I'll be there Pauline, but as is now my custom, I'll Anesthetize myself before hand with copious amounts of Guinness.
Hmmmmm. That sounds like a plan although I don't tend to drink before games. I shall certainly make up for it afterwards.
I NEVER used to drink pre-match, now I have to, in the absence of a crack pipe.
Absinthe works well, I find.
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IFwe get relegated, I've already decided to treat next seasons awaydays as adventures going out to meet old chums from way back when.
I've spent the last hour imagining the joys of Millwall, Leeds,Barnsley etc. And lets not forget the 'local' derby against the might of Coventry City.
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As I said in another post The reason why it's so difficult to galvanise support is because as we know if we escape relegation this season What then? Nothing will change Mcleish will still be in a job,we'll still be shit and most likely be relegated next season The board are fully responsible for this horrendous situation and apathy from the fans
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IFwe get relegated, I've already decided to treat next seasons awaydays as adventures going out to meet old chums from way back when.
I've spent the last hour imagining the joys of Millwall, Leeds,Barnsley etc. And lets not forget the 'local' derby against the might of Coventry City.
Damn you TLP. I was thinking the likes of Forest, palace and Ipswich. Now you've reminded me of that lot, I'm afraid, very afraid. I've never been to a Millwall away game and the very thought of it ...........
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Agreed. And let's not forget the stoke game is on bank holiday Monday. Some may want to spend time with the kids/family. Those of us that are there will just have to shout a bit louder.
I'll be there Pauline, but as is now my custom, I'll Anesthetize myself before hand with copious amounts of Guinness.
Hmmmmm. That sounds like a plan although I don't tend to drink before games. I shall certainly make up for it afterwards.
I NEVER used to drink pre-match, now I have to, in the absence of a crack pipe.
Absinthe works well, I find.
Did you mean absence?
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And absinthe makes the heart grow fonder.
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Indeed.
But pints rather than shots.
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lets start again im not brilliant with words!! i meant we need every fan possible in the ground wasnt a dig at people who cant make it. we just need all the anti McLeish and Lerner stuff put on hold. im sorry but some people find an excuse to get offended in anything..
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lets start again im not brilliant with words!! i meant we need every fan possible in the ground wasnt a dig at people who cant make it. we just need all the anti McLeish and Lerner stuff put on hold. im sorry but some people find an excuse to get offended in anything..
What I don't understand - in general, not particularly in relation to what you said - is that I hear talk of much anti McLeish invective at the games, but as far as I can tell, he's had a relatively easy ride of it.
You'd think, to read some sites / papers, there was a cauldron of hatred against the bloke.
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As I said in another post The reason why it's so difficult to galvanise support is because as we know if we escape relegation this season What then? Nothing will change Mcleish will still be in a job,we'll still be shit and most likely be relegated next season The board are fully responsible for this horrendous situation and apathy from the fans
I think the thrust of what you say here is correct.
The worst thing about events of the last year or two is that we'd been told for three years prior to that that we were about ambition, we had plans, we were going places.
Then - curiously, exactly when the club's previously ubiquitous link with the fans decides to disappear from the face of the earth - they abruptly stop telling us that, and switch to saying nothing other than if it's about the need to live within our means.
This season has been shite - shiter than last season - but that's easier to put up with if you can have optimism that things will be better next season. Unfortunately, with the certaintly that we'll be lumbered with this joker of a manager for a fair while yet, it's very difficult to be optimistic about anything.
You really don't need to be wearing a deerstalker hat and tugging on a pipe to work out the cause of our current malaise - the owner lost interest, it really is as simple as that.
They can't even be arsed to feed us meaningless marketing slogans any more.
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Not trying to make excuses here, but even the best planning in the world would be undone by Barry betrying the club with his flaunting to Liverpool, then leaving, MON walking out when he did, Milner leaving, Downing turning into a traitorous wanker of the highest order, the club putting their chips on Houllier then the bloke falls ill and a fight at a hotel mixed in for good measure. The hiring of McLeish was a stunner to everyone, and there is no explanation for that but the events that preceded it are bizarre.
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We need players back for sure.
Only two out for the season AFAIK is Darren Bent and Petrov.
We need N'zogbia, Clark (who was supposed to only be out for a month), Dunne and Delph all back for the Sunderland game which will be the crucial week as we have Bolton and then West Brom after that.
If they're all back, we'll get the points required.
Physio Room (http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php) has Delph's return date as 22nd May.
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Not trying to make excuses here, but even the best planning in the world would be undone by Barry betrying the club with his flaunting to Liverpool, then leaving, MON walking out when he did, Milner leaving, Downing turning into a traitorous wanker of the highest order, the club putting their chips on Houllier then the bloke falls ill and a fight at a hotel mixed in for good measure. The hiring of McLeish was a stunner to everyone, and there is no explanation for that but the events that preceded it are bizarre.
Have to say, I don't really see the relevance of any of those things, Toronto.
The problem isn't that we were undone by unforeseen events - players leave clubs all the time. In fact, we did quite well in some senses. We got a whole year's notice out of Barry before he left (and MON to his credit played that one superbly).
The major, major mistake was that when Houllier left, the club had the chance to make an appointment that would effectively treat that season as a "blip", but build on the positives we had from that year (and there weren't many, to be honest).
What they actually did is the worst thing they possibly could have. I keep saying this, but if a malevolent force had visited us from another planet with the mission of doing the most damage to the club they possibly could, how would they have done any better a job of it than Lerner did?
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Downing turning into a traitorous wanker of the highest order...
Not one to give Stewpot credit if at all possible, but he didn't go the Barry route of a desperate NOTW article and bigging up an opposition manager. You, I and the rest of the world probably knew he wanted out. But there is the little matter of the players registration. We held it, and if we wanted to play hardball (like we did with Barry) we could have.
In isolation, the sales of Barry, Milner Ash and Downing all made sense. But taken as a whole, it's demonstrated to the world that we sell our best players. The money for Downing was decent -particularly in view of his recent form for the Redscouse.
But I am still of the opinion that it should have been our line in the sand moment. The Modric situation at Tottingham illustrates that just because a player wants out, his current club don't have to play ball. Rather than being a bit part player for the Redscouse, he would have been a key player for us, and very likely certain of a place in the England set up for Euro 2012. The latter means it's highly unlikely we'd have seen any behaviour or performances tantamount to strike action, for not getting his way. It would have been in his interest to give his best this season, if for no other reason than to attract an even better calibre of club than the dippers.
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The relevance is that we were building something under MON. Yes, the Barry thing was something that happens, but clubs don't generally get stripped in three consecutive years of their 4 very best players plus the manager. It's hard to account for that. I thought we were going somewhere under GH and yet again the wheels fell off. Maybe we shoudld have known better than to hire a bloke with a bad ticker. I don't know.
I think we all agree on the McLeish thing. They had a chance to build on a good finish to the season, and we fucked it up. Maybe had we got Moyes it would all be different but we didn't. Hiring McLeish has been nothing short of a disaster and even the most patient of us have just about given up.
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The relevance is that we were building something under MON. Yes, the Barry thing was something that happens, but clubs don't generally get stripped in three consecutive years of their 4 very best players plus the manager. It's hard to account for that.
It isn't about selling your best players - look at the players Arsenal have moved on - it is about what you do with the money you get for them, and in Lerner's case, it's not looking too impressive really.
If we were in a situation where we really, really needed to pocket some of the cash, as we did, then you have to look at the wisdom of some of the signings and wages he condoned which created that situation.
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Not trying to make excuses here, but even the best planning in the world would be undone by Barry betrying the club with his flaunting to Liverpool, then leaving, MON walking out when he did, Milner leaving, Downing turning into a traitorous wanker of the highest order, the club putting their chips on Houllier then the bloke falls ill and a fight at a hotel mixed in for good measure. The hiring of McLeish was a stunner to everyone, and there is no explanation for that but the events that preceded it are bizarre.
We are in the shit because we have bought very badly.
Alex Mcleish last summer spent what Newcastle spent on Cabeye, Cisse, Ba on Hutton and N'Zogbia, then to top it off sent Makoun out on loan. Yes we all though N'Zogbia was good, but we all knew his temperament and so did Mcleish.
We have a shit manager and have a very very strong possibility of going down.
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No, Wolves have a very strong possibility of going down. We have an outside chance.
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The relevance is that we were building something under MON. Yes, the Barry thing was something that happens, but clubs don't generally get stripped in three consecutive years of their 4 very best players plus the manager. It's hard to account for that. I thought we were going somewhere under GH and yet again the wheels fell off. Maybe we should have known better than to hire a bloke with a bad ticker. I don't know.
We weren't really building anything under O'Neill though. It should be clear by now that it was as unsustainable as the Western economies' debt crisis. He paid £20m(ish) for Cuellar and Davies, then decided 12 months later that neither were good enough, so went out and replaced them with Dunne and Collins. Just one example of his sheer profligacy, the results of which are still being felt whenever you look at the club accounts. The reason we've had to sell our best players is to desperately try to rebalance the books. It's why we're bolloxed for the foreseeable future.
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All we were building under MON was a house of cards that the pubeheaded little shit couldn't wait to give a nudge as he walked out the door.
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We weren't really building anything under O'Neill though. It should be clear by now that it was as unsustainable as the Western economies' debt crisis. He paid £20m(ish) for Cuellar and Davies, then decided 12 months later that neither were good enough, so went out and replaced them with Dunne and Collins. Just one example of his sheer profligacy, the results of which are still being felt whenever you look at the club accounts. The reason we've had to sell our best players is to desperately try to rebalance the books. It's why we're bolloxed for the foreseeable future.
I agree with this - that MO'N was operating outside of normal business parameters (unchecked by Lerner et al).
But I also believe that we ignored the GHou plan (and I'm making assumptions that he had a credible plan to go forwards) about replacing the 'old lags' and hiring young, value-for-money replacements like Cabaye and Tiote, in order to exploit the youth benefits that exist at Villa.
Hiring McLueless was expedient: he was relatively inexpensive, malleable and 'likeable' - oh, and wily old Sralex apparently recommended him!
It all smacks of a total lack of Vision and Strategy. No plan, no direction and no plan B.
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Risso, it was up to the board to point that out to MON. MON was the manager. He should have been ordered to recoup some of that money before signing replacements. Who sanctioned Heskey's wages etc? MON's a cock but we can see the bigger picture now. Nobody in charge at the club seems to have a clue about either Business or football.
As for relegation, my latest thoughts, the fans simply have to come out strong for Aston Villa in our remaining games. Remember the efforts made this time last year? We MUST replicate those.
We are stuck with this gobshite of a manager. Are we going to rely on him to keep us up or are we going to do something about it ourselves?
Get behind the villa. Let's do our bit to keep us up. If the worst happens, at least we can say, we tried our best to lift the club.
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Risso, it was up to the board to point that out to MON. MON was the manager. He should have been ordered to recoup some of that money before signing replacements. Who sanctioned Heskey's wages etc? MON's a cock but we can see the bigger picture now. Nobody in charge at the club seems to have a clue about either Business or football.
Oh I quite agree. The combination of Lerner and O'Neill was a marriage made in hell. Somebody with inherited wealth, completely inexperienced in the ways of English football with a track record of crap sports management, backing an egotistical, arrogant manager who thought that he should run the club from top to bottom. Lerner wasn't rich enough to sustain that level of waste, and O'Neill had enough mates in the media that his false reputation would live on if he walked out.
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I don't worry too much about relegation even though that scenario is now looking less unlikely than it did a couple of weeks ago. We should be able to get somewhere between two and four points from our next two matches. Old Trafford is almost a guaranteed defeat, I agree. But at least five points from matches against Sunderland, Bolton, West Bromwich, Spurs and Norwich should be doable. At least more doable than getting points from Arsenal and Chelsea.
However, since we embarked on the austerity drive we have gone from sixth to ninth, and then from ninth to (most likely) somewhere around fifteenth. If we continue the current "strategy" (selling our best players and not replacing them), carry on with McLeish as manager, and he doesn't start to show any kind of indication that he knows what he is doing, then we're almost guaranteed to end up in the shit at the end of next season.
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The major, major mistake was that when Houllier left, the club had the chance to make an appointment that would effectively treat that season as a "blip", but build on the positives we had from that year (and there weren't many, to be honest).
What they actually did is the worst thing they possibly could have. I keep saying this, but if a malevolent force had visited us from another planet with the mission of doing the most damage to the club they possibly could, how would they have done any better a job of it than Lerner did?
I completely agree with this. However, I think that it is incompetence rather than a loss of interest on behalf of Lerner. The fact is that he didn't really need to look very hard for MON when he was in the process of buying the club. Whilst the appointment was made before the take over, I'm not sure whether it was instigated by Lerner or by HDE.
It seems as though Lerner thought that he could trust MON, and effectively just leave him to it. There wasn't anyone with any football knowledge monitoring what was going on, and so when they eventually tried to rein him in, and he walked, there was no plan. I think the Houllier appointment, although frankly a little left-field, could have worked out and provided the football knowledge, and plan, that was so evidently missing.
However, the appointment of McLeish just proves that it was all random. Given that football is a global game, it would be a staggering stroke of luck if the best candidate for the job just happened to be employed down the road. I think his league cup win against the odds, in the context of our two near misses with MON the season before, proved too seductive to Lerner.
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Is it wrong to bet on your team to go down?
If so, I'm a traitor.
Last week, we were 25/1 with Ladbrokes to go down. By Saturday morning this had fallen to 18/1 and by Saturday evening down to 12/1.
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Way i see it, even if we stay up and Mcleish goes we're probably going down next season anyway.. Cuellar will go and not be replaced because we have Dunne, Collins Clarke, Baker (yipee), Heskey won't be replaced (don't really matter i guess). I can't believe they won't replcae Petrov but you wouldn't put it past the yank fuckwitt. The new guy will first have the joy of welcoming a player he probably doesn't even want, and then working with what you can laughably call the remants of our 1st team . Oh, and the kids who even though they've yet to prove they're even decent championship players will magically be transformed by the new's guys sheer force of personality into a fully functioning premiership side.
So really as far as the new man goes we're looking for a certifiable nut job with an insane belief in his own ability. Plenty of them round without a job, but wait, he also has to be good, with a decent track record, who wants to work with peanuts and doesn't care at all about his reputation going up in flames once he takes on the basket case that is Randy Lerner's aston Villa.
Good luck with that.
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I reckon we will be save this season. A few of the other players in the relegation battle have a tough few games coming up in the next few whilst we have to play a shit Liverpool and Stoke. This should provide a few points to get us over the line. If we don't get points from these two games I reckon we are in trouble. Especially if some of the teams below pick up unexpected points.
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I reckon we will lose to Liverpool and draw against Stoke. I am going to see what odds I can get, as I reckon we are gonna drop this season not next.
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However, the appointment of McLeish just proves that it was all random. Given that football is a global game, it would be a staggering stroke of luck if the best candidate for the job just happened to be employed down the road. I think his league cup win against the odds, in the context of our two near misses with MON the season before, proved too seductive to Lerner.
The appointment of McLeish was two things - lazy and insane.
Football club executives and owners have as one of their key functions to search out and appoint managers. Some clubs are canny with it and do a bit of research and make an inspired, forward looking appointment.
What were the things driving Lerner and Faulkner when they appointed McLeish? What on earth were they thinking? We know that they - ridiculously and for the second time in a year - put "premier league experience" at the top of the list of requirements. Where to start with narow minded idiocy of that kind?
The sad thing is that even when our glorious leader finally did stick his head over the parapet and speak about the appointment, he said two things, effectively - that McLeish was an interesting person to talk to and that Ferguson wrote him a nice letter.
That's the level of inspiration we have leading the club, and that's why, ultimately, no matter how much money he throws at it, Lerner will get nowhere, because the largest problem in this equation is himself.
Here we are almost 10 months into it, and I still can not believe he got the job, the whole thing just beggars belief.
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So Greg you think it is impossible for Aston Villa to recruit a decent manager! I dont share your pessimism. Granted with the idiots running the club at the moment it might seem difficult. I think because Martinez turned us down they got scared and hit the panick button. If they thought about it and acted with some level of competance then recruiting Lambert or Rogers is not beyond us. The issue is weteher RL and PF have the gumption to do anything about it.
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I sometimes even now struggle to believe that AM is our manager. It's like a bad dream. But then you wake up and it's true. The kids will need to dig deep and play well or else we will go down. If AM tells them to play on the wrong wings again they should ignore the moron and switch. I put our chances of staying up at 60/40.
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I reckon we will lose to Liverpool and draw against Stoke. I am going to see what odds I can get, as I reckon we are gonna drop this season not next.
Yep, I think were in freefall
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So Greg you think it is impossible for Aston Villa to recruit a decent manager! I dont share your pessimism. Granted with the idiots running the club at the moment it might seem difficult. I think because Martinez turned us down they got scared and hit the panick button. If they thought about it and acted with some level of competance then recruiting Lambert or Rogers is not beyond us. The issue is weteher RL and PF have the gumption to do anything about it.
Martinez turned us down not because he thought we were a nothing club, but because he has a strong bond with Whelan and feels like he owes him something.
Suggesting his opting to stay at Wigan is some proof that we're a toxic brand nobody with half a brain would touch is utterly nonsensical.
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So Greg you think it is impossible for Aston Villa to recruit a decent manager! I dont share your pessimism. Granted with the idiots running the club at the moment it might seem difficult. I think because Martinez turned us down they got scared and hit the panick button. If they thought about it and acted with some level of competance then recruiting Lambert or Rogers is not beyond us. The issue is weteher RL and PF have the gumption to do anything about it.
Martinez turned us down not because he thought we were a nothing club, but because he has a strong bond with Whelan and feels like he owes him something.
Suggesting his opting to stay at Wigan is some proof that we're a toxic brand nobody with half a brain would touch is utterly nonsensical.
I bet if it had been Spurs, Liverpool or Arsenal calling and not Villa that bond to Whelan wouldn't have been as strong.
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So Greg you think it is impossible for Aston Villa to recruit a decent manager! I dont share your pessimism. Granted with the idiots running the club at the moment it might seem difficult. I think because Martinez turned us down they got scared and hit the panick button. If they thought about it and acted with some level of competance then recruiting Lambert or Rogers is not beyond us. The issue is weteher RL and PF have the gumption to do anything about it.
Martinez turned us down not because he thought we were a nothing club, but because he has a strong bond with Whelan and feels like he owes him something.
Suggesting his opting to stay at Wigan is some proof that we're a toxic brand nobody with half a brain would touch is utterly nonsensical.
Completely agree, after what happened the season before with player mutiny may also have been a factor as far as Martinez. At least that stuff has not been a feature this season. The Villa job is still one that could secure a managers financial future and even promote his football future. Lambert and Rogers know that they have taken thier Clubs about as far as they can go. The only better job that is likely to come up next season is Spurs if Arry fucks off to Engerland.
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So Greg you think it is impossible for Aston Villa to recruit a decent manager! I dont share your pessimism. Granted with the idiots running the club at the moment it might seem difficult. I think because Martinez turned us down they got scared and hit the panick button. If they thought about it and acted with some level of competance then recruiting Lambert or Rogers is not beyond us. The issue is weteher RL and PF have the gumption to do anything about it.
Martinez turned us down not because he thought we were a nothing club, but because he has a strong bond with Whelan and feels like he owes him something.
Suggesting his opting to stay at Wigan is some proof that we're a toxic brand nobody with half a brain would touch is utterly nonsensical.
I bet if it had been Spurs, Liverpool or Arsenal calling and not Villa that bond to Whelan wouldn't have been as strong.
Of course it wouldn't, but those are better jobs. It doesn't make our job shit, though.
If you take your argument to its logical conclusion, it almost justifies the appointment of McLose - as it'd be "well, that's the best we could get", in which case you'd have no cause to complain.
And I'd have a headache. Which I do have.
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Lambert and Rogers know that they have taken thier Clubs about as far as they can go.
They've kept their teams in the Premier League for the first season back. The second season is usually a lot harder, so I reckon they'll feel that the job has just started.
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So Greg you think it is impossible for Aston Villa to recruit a decent manager! I dont share your pessimism. Granted with the idiots running the club at the moment it might seem difficult. I think because Martinez turned us down they got scared and hit the panick button. If they thought about it and acted with some level of competance then recruiting Lambert or Rogers is not beyond us. The issue is weteher RL and PF have the gumption to do anything about it.
Martinez turned us down not because he thought we were a nothing club, but because he has a strong bond with Whelan and feels like he owes him something.
Suggesting his opting to stay at Wigan is some proof that we're a toxic brand nobody with half a brain would touch is utterly nonsensical.
Completely agree, after what happened the season before with player mutiny may also have been a factor as far as Martinez. At least that stuff has not been a feature this season. The Villa job is still one that could secure a managers financial future and even promote his football future. Lambert and Rogers know that they have taken thier Clubs about as far as they can go. The only better job that is likely to come up next season is Spurs if Arry fucks off to Engerland.
Absolutely agree re Lambert and Rodgers. Where do those writing us off think they're going to get a chance as the next step? They won't go to the "big" clubs, because they want managers with experience of managing in the Champions League. Maybe Spurs, yes, but who else if not a Villa / Everton / Newcastle style job?
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Lambert and Rogers know that they have taken thier Clubs about as far as they can go.
They've kept their teams in the Premier League for the first season back. The second season is usually a lot harder, so I reckon they'll feel that the job has just started.
Wouldn't that make them more likely to make hay while the sun shines right now and move somewhere bigger now, given the chance, than risking it all on a second season?
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Lambert and Rogers know that they have taken thier Clubs about as far as they can go.
They've kept their teams in the Premier League for the first season back. The second season is usually a lot harder, so I reckon they'll feel that the job has just started.
These are ambitious people, thier loyalty to thier clubs could be a factor but the successfull managers do what they do to achieve stuff, I dont think it that big a stretch to work out that The Villa provides a bigger stage for success than Swansea or Norwich.
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Lambert and Rogers know that they have taken thier Clubs about as far as they can go.
They've kept their teams in the Premier League for the first season back. The second season is usually a lot harder, so I reckon they'll feel that the job has just started.
These are ambitious people, thier loyalty to thier clubs could be a factor but the successfull managers do what they do to achieve stuff, I dont think it that big a stretch to work out that The Villa provides a bigger stage for success than Swansea or Norwich.
Not as things stand it doesn't.
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Lambert and Rogers know that they have taken thier Clubs about as far as they can go.
They've kept their teams in the Premier League for the first season back. The second season is usually a lot harder, so I reckon they'll feel that the job has just started.
These are ambitious people, thier loyalty to thier clubs could be a factor but the successfull managers do what they do to achieve stuff, I dont think it that big a stretch to work out that The Villa provides a bigger stage for success than Swansea or Norwich.
Not as things stand it doesn't.
Oh come on, Risso, you're suggesting that this is not a bigger stage than Swansea or Norwich? It's not just about where we are at the moment, is it?
You might as well argue that Newcastle is a bigger stage than Liverpool by that logic.
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Lambert and Rogers know that they have taken thier Clubs about as far as they can go.
They've kept their teams in the Premier League for the first season back. The second season is usually a lot harder, so I reckon they'll feel that the job has just started.
These are ambitious people, thier loyalty to thier clubs could be a factor but the successfull managers do what they do to achieve stuff, I dont think it that big a stretch to work out that The Villa provides a bigger stage for success than Swansea or Norwich.
Not as things stand it doesn't.
What makes you think that Hawkeye?
Pending Swansea keep the bulk of their people, the football philosophy there will surely keep them up. The Villa don't have the funds, the personnel, or the players to see success any time soon.
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So Greg you think it is impossible for Aston Villa to recruit a decent manager! I dont share your pessimism. Granted with the idiots running the club at the moment it might seem difficult. I think because Martinez turned us down they got scared and hit the panick button. If they thought about it and acted with some level of competance then recruiting Lambert or Rogers is not beyond us. The issue is weteher RL and PF have the gumption to do anything about it.
why would they come to us when there's no money and no team? tell me, because i'd really like to believe there was a logical reason why Lambert would go from a small budget but a team with managaeble fans expectations to no money, no team, but anywhere less than higher mid-table isn't good enough. Martinez looked at us and ran a mile becuse he knew it was a hiding to nothing. Whatever relationship he has with Whelan if he thought it was a good gig he would have gone, but it wasn't and isn't
If anyone can tell me why Villa is an attractive proposition to a good employed manager currently then lets have it, and try not to mention the words "big club". step-up", and "bigger resources" because none of them apply anymore.
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So Greg you think it is impossible for Aston Villa to recruit a decent manager! I dont share your pessimism. Granted with the idiots running the club at the moment it might seem difficult. I think because Martinez turned us down they got scared and hit the panick button. If they thought about it and acted with some level of competance then recruiting Lambert or Rogers is not beyond us. The issue is weteher RL and PF have the gumption to do anything about it.
why would they come to us when there's no money and no team? tell me, because i'd really like to believe there was a logical reason why Lambert would go from a small budget but a team with managaeble fans expectations to no money, no team, but anywhere less than higher mid-table isn't good enough. Martinez looked at us and ran a mile becuse he knew it was a hiding to nothing. Whatever relationship he has with Whelan if he thought it was a good gig he would have gone, but it wasn't and isn't
If anyone can tell me why Villa is an attractive proposition to a good employed manager currently then lets have it, and try not to mention the words "big club". step-up", and "bigger resources" because none of them apply anymore.
We have pretty damn good Balti Pies.
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Lambert and Rogers know that they have taken thier Clubs about as far as they can go.
They've kept their teams in the Premier League for the first season back. The second season is usually a lot harder, so I reckon they'll feel that the job has just started.
These are ambitious people, thier loyalty to thier clubs could be a factor but the successfull managers do what they do to achieve stuff, I dont think it that big a stretch to work out that The Villa provides a bigger stage for success than Swansea or Norwich.
Not as things stand it doesn't.
What makes you think that Hawkeye?
Pending Swansea keep the bulk of their people, the football philosophy there will surely keep them up. The Villa don't have the funds, the personnel, or the players to see success any time soon.
I'd suggest we have all three to a much higher degree than Swansea do.
The difference is Swansea manage their assets well. We do not.
If you looked at Swansea's squad list, and then at ours, they don't even belong within two divisions of us, but as I said, they're well managed, whereas we aren't.
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If anyone can tell me why Villa is an attractive proposition to a good employed manager currently then lets have it, and try not to mention the words "big club". step-up", and "bigger resources" because none of them apply anymore.
Christ, Greg, I bet you thought O'Neill was a fucking genius, in that case, given the results he got.
Oh.
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So Greg, the only way you are a big club these days is if you spend a shed load of money?
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If anyone can tell me why Villa is an attractive proposition to a good employed manager currently then lets have it, and try not to mention the words "big club". step-up", and "bigger resources" because none of them apply anymore.
Christ, Greg, I bet you thought O'Neill was a fucking genius, in that case, given the results he got.
Oh.
LOL (as the kids say)
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If anyone can tell me why Villa is an attractive proposition to a good employed manager currently then lets have it, and try not to mention the words "big club". step-up", and "bigger resources" because none of them apply anymore.
Christ, Greg, I bet you thought O'Neill was a fucking genius, in that case, given the results he got.
Oh.
In what way is Villa 2012 anything like MON's Villa or even DOL's Villa. He'd be dragging along the bottom as well which is probably why he fucked off
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So Greg, the only way you are a big club these days is if you spend a shed load of money?
no a big club is one that can afford reserves. We haven't even got the numbers swansea have
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So Greg, the only way you are a big club these days is if you spend a shed load of money?
no a big club is one that can afford reserves. We haven't even got the numbers swansea have
So yes, you believe it's money.
And yet our reserves are top of the league. Not bad considering we can't actually afford a reserve team.
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So Greg, the only way you are a big club these days is if you spend a shed load of money?
no a big club is one that can afford reserves. We haven't even got the numbers swansea have
So yes, you believe it's money.
And yet our reserves are top of the league. Not bad considering we can't actually afford a reserve team.
They will start to struggle soon as more and more are saved for first team action.
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So Greg, the only way you are a big club these days is if you spend a shed load of money?
no a big club is one that can afford reserves. We haven't even got the numbers swansea have
So yes, you believe it's money.
And yet our reserves are top of the league. Not bad considering we can't actually afford a reserve team.
kids are not reserves,. Most teams have kids and players old enough to drink in pubs
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So Greg, the only way you are a big club these days is if you spend a shed load of money?
no a big club is one that can afford reserves. We haven't even got the numbers swansea have
So yes, you believe it's money.
And yet our reserves are top of the league. Not bad considering we can't actually afford a reserve team.
kids are not reserves,. Most teams have kids and players old enough to drink in pubs
I don't understand.
We don't have reserves, we have kids. kids can't be considered reserves, we should have reserves who are older?
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I could be wrong, but I think I detect the sound of Greg digging again....
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So Greg, the only way you are a big club these days is if you spend a shed load of money?
no a big club is one that can afford reserves. We haven't even got the numbers swansea have
So yes, you believe it's money.
And yet our reserves are top of the league. Not bad considering we can't actually afford a reserve team.
kids are not reserves,. Most teams have kids and players old enough to drink in pubs
So there you have it. If we had a mid table reserve side full of players like Beye we'd be a big club. Having a reserve side full of kids that's top of the league means we aren't.
I can't believe i've spent my whole life not understanding what makes a big club.
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So Greg, the only way you are a big club these days is if you spend a shed load of money?
no a big club is one that can afford reserves. We haven't even got the numbers swansea have
So yes, you believe it's money.
And yet our reserves are top of the league. Not bad considering we can't actually afford a reserve team.
kids are not reserves,. Most teams have kids and players old enough to drink in pubs
I don't understand.
We don't have reserves, we have kids. kids can't be considered reserves, we should have reserves who are older?
You know, players with experience. Players who've actually played league games, proven players who can come in for injuries or illness, not youngsters who are as likely to end up in the conference as they are to make it and seem to be the main hope of the guy who you've just spent the last hour criticising his judgement on all things football and yet you seem to share his view on the youngsters.
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I think I understand the line of argument of some people on this thread. We might as well give up. I have my noose tied already. We're doomed and doomed forever with no end in sight.
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So Greg, the only way you are a big club these days is if you spend a shed load of money?
no a big club is one that can afford reserves. We haven't even got the numbers swansea have
So yes, you believe it's money.
And yet our reserves are top of the league. Not bad considering we can't actually afford a reserve team.
kids are not reserves,. Most teams have kids and players old enough to drink in pubs
I don't understand.
We don't have reserves, we have kids. kids can't be considered reserves, we should have reserves who are older?
You know, players with experience. Players who've actually played league games, proven players who can come in for injuries or illness, not youngsters who are as likely to end up in the conference as they are to make it and seem to be the main hope of the guy who you've just spent the last hour criticising his judgement on all things football and yet you seem to share his view on the youngsters.
You've totally lost me.
As I've pointed out we do actually have a reserve team (and a very good one, even if they are young), and we also have experienced players who don't always start, I'm actually a massive McLeish fan?
Why did you used to get as annoyed as I and others did over Habib Beye, in that case, who was a very experienced player, if it's that important? To follow your line of argument, wouldn't the continued availability of his experience over, say, Lichaj (who I notice scored yesterday) leave us in a better position?
Also, there are a few things Swansea do better than us at the moment, but to suggest that one of them is their superior squad strength is utterly hatstand.
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So Greg, the only way you are a big club these days is if you spend a shed load of money?
no a big club is one that can afford reserves. We haven't even got the numbers swansea have
So yes, you believe it's money.
And yet our reserves are top of the league. Not bad considering we can't actually afford a reserve team.
kids are not reserves,. Most teams have kids and players old enough to drink in pubs
So there you have it. If we had a mid table reserve side full of players like Beye we'd be a big club. Having a reserve side full of kids that's top of the league means we aren't.
I can't believe i've spent my whole life not understanding what makes a big club.
most of them aren't good enough. a couple may make decent reserves or average premier players. The rest will be in the lower leagues likes all the other great hopes of our youth teams over the last 20 years. Gabby and Cahill - thats about it.
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So Greg, the only way you are a big club these days is if you spend a shed load of money?
no a big club is one that can afford reserves. We haven't even got the numbers swansea have
So yes, you believe it's money.
And yet our reserves are top of the league. Not bad considering we can't actually afford a reserve team.
kids are not reserves,. Most teams have kids and players old enough to drink in pubs
I don't understand.
We don't have reserves, we have kids. kids can't be considered reserves, we should have reserves who are older?
You know, players with experience. Players who've actually played league games, proven players who can come in for injuries or illness, not youngsters who are as likely to end up in the conference as they are to make it and seem to be the main hope of the guy who you've just spent the last hour criticising his judgement on all things football and yet you seem to share his view on the youngsters.
You've totally lost me.
As I've pointed out we do actually have a reserve team (and a very good one, even if they are young), and we also have experienced players who don't always start, I'm actually a massive McLeish fan?
Why did you used to get as annoyed as I and others did over Habib Beye, in that case, who was a very experienced player, if it's that important? To follow your line of argument, wouldn't the continued availability of his experience over, say, Lichaj (who I notice scored yesterday) leave us in a better position?
Also, there are a few things Swansea do better than us at the moment, but to suggest that one of them is their superior squad strength is utterly hatstand.
the reserve league is shit standard always has been. Whether we're doing well in it or not doesn't given any indication whether the players involved can hack it in the premier. Now you may choose to class a load of unproven youngsters as good enough to be our reserves, I prefer players who've managed games in the premier or the championship and seeing our reserves with that experience is probably limited to Brad and Heskey currently i think you're the one who's hatstand or living in a world where someone only has to put on a villa shirt and automatically be better than a swansea player
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So Greg, the only way you are a big club these days is if you spend a shed load of money?
no a big club is one that can afford reserves. We haven't even got the numbers swansea have
So yes, you believe it's money.
And yet our reserves are top of the league. Not bad considering we can't actually afford a reserve team.
kids are not reserves,. Most teams have kids and players old enough to drink in pubs
So there you have it. If we had a mid table reserve side full of players like Beye we'd be a big club. Having a reserve side full of kids that's top of the league means we aren't.
I can't believe i've spent my whole life not understanding what makes a big club.
most of them aren't good enough. a couple may make decent reserves or average premier players. The rest will be in the lower leagues likes all the other great hopes of our youth teams over the last 20 years. Gabby and Cahill - thats about it.
Keep digging Greg, unless you liked us paying what we did to keep Beye in the reserves?
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Would that be the Beye we should have loaned out until we did, then we should have kept him because we weren't saving enough on his wages and we'd never get rid of him, then he left??
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i'm not digging anywhere. You obviously think our youth players are world beaters on no evidence at all. I disagree.
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So Greg you think it is impossible for Aston Villa to recruit a decent manager! I dont share your pessimism. Granted with the idiots running the club at the moment it might seem difficult. I think because Martinez turned us down they got scared and hit the panick button. If they thought about it and acted with some level of competance then recruiting Lambert or Rogers is not beyond us. The issue is weteher RL and PF have the gumption to do anything about it.
why would they come to us when there's no money and no team? tell me, because i'd really like to believe there was a logical reason why Lambert would go from a small budget but a team with managaeble fans expectations to no money, no team, but anywhere less than higher mid-table isn't good enough. Martinez looked at us and ran a mile becuse he knew it was a hiding to nothing. Whatever relationship he has with Whelan if he thought it was a good gig he would have gone, but it wasn't and isn't
If anyone can tell me why Villa is an attractive proposition to a good employed manager currently then lets have it, and try not to mention the words "big club". step-up", and "bigger resources" because none of them apply anymore.
Of course they apply, just because these idiots left MON alone with the cheque book for 3 years dosent mean we have become Walsall overnight.
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i'm not digging anywhere. You obviously think our youth players are world beaters on no evidence at all. I disagree.
So you think we should have kept Beye and filled our reserve side with players like him? And because we haven't we're no longer a big club? Simple yes or no to 2 questions Greg, or will you give a politicians answer yet again?
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Managers will apply. good managers.? We were hardly knocked down by the rush last time and we were in a far better position then
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Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.
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i'm not digging anywhere. You obviously think our youth players are world beaters on no evidence at all. I disagree.
So you think we should have kept Beye and filled our reserve side with players like him? And because we haven't we're no longer a big club? Simple yes or no to 2 questions Greg, or will you give a politicians answer yet again?
The main problem with Beye was his wges. take that away, and if you gave me a choice of a player who's played at his level and one thats played at no decent level i'd know who i would go for. ideally you want reserves and youth players like erm everyone else in the league does
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Managers will apply. good managers.? We were hardly knocked down by the rush last time and we were in a far better position then
If you believe Swansea and Norwich are somehow bigger clubs that Villa, then there is no arguement.
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Thank fuck we didn't have the Internet years ago when we got relegated. In those days we just got on with things. Those who didn't want to go again just fucked off until we came good and then became the no.1 fan again.
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i'm not digging anywhere. You obviously think our youth players are world beaters on no evidence at all. I disagree.
So you think we should have kept Beye and filled our reserve side with players like him? And because we haven't we're no longer a big club? Simple yes or no to 2 questions Greg, or will you give a politicians answer yet again?
The main problem with Beye was his wges. take that away, and if you gave me a choice of a player who's played at his level and one thats played at no decent level i'd know who i would go for. ideally you want reserves and youth players like erm everyone else in the league does
Well it wasn't a yes or no to 2 questions, but a politicians to 1. Still, at least we know you wish we'd kept Beye and played him instead of Lichaj.
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Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.
Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..
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Thank fuck we didn't have the Internet years ago when we got relegated. In those days we just got on with things. Those who didn't want to go again just fucked off until we came good and then became the no.1 fan again.
Relegation is different though. The sheer financial disparity makes relegation a far greater disaster than it was when last we were down.
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Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.
Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..
Why can't we find the next Lambert or Rodgers or whoever? Would they turn us down due to wanting to stay at Colchester or on the dole after being sacked by Reading? Or if Premier League experience is essential what about finding a Pardew, someone who is underrated but just clicks at a club, would that person prefer to stay on the dole waiting for a club who has a better squad or more money?
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i'm not digging anywhere. You obviously think our youth players are world beaters on no evidence at all. I disagree.
So you think we should have kept Beye and filled our reserve side with players like him? And because we haven't we're no longer a big club? Simple yes or no to 2 questions Greg, or will you give a politicians answer yet again?
The main problem with Beye was his wges. take that away, and if you gave me a choice of a player who's played at his level and one thats played at no decent level i'd know who i would go for. ideally you want reserves and youth players like erm everyone else in the league does
Well it wasn't a yes or no to 2 questions, but a politicians to 1. Still, at least we know you wish we'd kept Beye and played him instead of Lichaj.
well we're gonna see who's right and soon. If the likes of Lichaj turn out to be premiership class then you can remind me of this thread. If we go down because too much reliance was put on inexperienced kids, well i'll be reminding you for sure :0),
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i'm not digging anywhere. You obviously think our youth players are world beaters on no evidence at all. I disagree.
So you think we should have kept Beye and filled our reserve side with players like him? And because we haven't we're no longer a big club? Simple yes or no to 2 questions Greg, or will you give a politicians answer yet again?
The main problem with Beye was his wges. take that away, and if you gave me a choice of a player who's played at his level and one thats played at no decent level i'd know who i would go for. ideally you want reserves and youth players like erm everyone else in the league does
Well it wasn't a yes or no to 2 questions, but a politicians to 1. Still, at least we know you wish we'd kept Beye and played him instead of Lichaj.
well we're gonna see who's right and soon. If the likes of Lichaj turn out to be premiership class then you can remind me of this thread. If we go down because too much reliance was put on inexperienced kids, well i'll be reminding you for sure :0),
And would we be more likely to go down because of using someone like Lichaj in the last few games than because of the damage already done when we were relying on more experienced players?
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Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.
Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..
One reason why Lambert #might# jump ship is that there is a ceiling to how good norwich can get, whereas Villa's ceiling is much higher, pretty much anything up to 5 in the near future. Then you add the superior work conditions, training facilities then I think there is a pretty decent case for him coming if the clubs approached it properly.
A second reason is the size of the average footballer/manager's ego.
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most of them aren't good enough. a couple may make decent reserves or average premier players. The rest will be in the lower leagues likes all the other great hopes of our youth teams over the last 20 years. Gabby and Cahill - thats about it.
Didn't Luke Moore start for Swansea recently?
He was deemed not good enough for us, yet is getting first XI football for swansea (who have a bigger/better squad).
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If only we'd kept Habib Beye.
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I'm sure you will Greg, you've probably already bookmarked it for future reference.
I had half an inkling to go and watch the top of the table reserves tomorrow. But as you said we don't have a reserve side anymore I'll just spend the evening dreaming of the day when we can be as big a club as Norwich.
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I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.
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Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.
Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..
Why can't we find the next Lambert or Rodgers or whoever? Would they turn us down due to wanting to stay at Colchester or on the dole after being sacked by Reading? Or if Premier League experience is essential what about finding a Pardew, someone who is underrated but just clicks at a club, would that person prefer to stay on the dole waiting for a club who has a better squad or more money?
heh. Could you imagine if we appointed colchester's manager? Randy would be able to hear the cries of "not good enough" from the states. thats half the problem - a lot of us are still living in 2008.
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Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.
Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..
Its called ambition, based on your view of the world we would all be swimming around in some a Darwin sludge pool
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I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.
On the face of it, sure, but the circumstances might not be right. For Rodgers, it might be a safer bet for his career to take it slow at the club he's helped build and knows inside out, rather than risking his short-term reputation on a very big and very difficult re-building job at Villa.
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Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.
Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..
One reason why Lambert #might# jump ship is that there is a ceiling to how good norwich can get, whereas Villa's ceiling is much higher, pretty much anything up to 5 in the near future. Then you add the superior work conditions, training facilities then I think there is a pretty decent case for him coming if the clubs approached it properly.
yeah but doesn't this ceiling depend on money. We're not outspending norwich, the opposite in fact and we're still showing massive losses. It's gonna be cut back more next season as well because the guy who owns us basically can't afford us
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Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.
Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..
Its called ambition, based on your view of the world we would all be swimming around in some a Darwin sludge pool
eh? whats ambitious about moving to a club with no better chance of success?
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Lerners Financial situation has improved over the last 6 months
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Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.
Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..
Its called ambition, based on your view of the world we would all be swimming around in some a Darwin sludge pool
eh? whats ambitious about moving to a club with no better chance of success?
face palm
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I've worked out Greg's master plan. He wants us to give Emile an extension so as he can play in the reserves next season. Then we'll be a big club again, look out Norwich!
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Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.
Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..
Its called ambition, based on your view of the world we would all be swimming around in some a Darwin sludge pool
eh? whats ambitious about moving to a club with no better chance of success?
Blimey Greg, is everything short term with you? We might not be better off than them right at this moment in time, but we are a bigger club than them, have better resources and will be better positioned in time to consistently have an opportunity to achieve more than them. We've been through dark periods in our history before and have bounced back. Those teams, for the most part have spent their entire existence in the lower divisions because its as far as they tend to go.
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Bolton 39 pts
Villa 36
QPR 35
Wigan 34
Blackburn 33
Wolves 23
We will draw against Stoke, Bolton and Norwich.
I thought you were an optimist and a believer in McLeish?
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ah now we're getting somewhere. See this is my worry. People think Lerner is going to loosen the purse strings if a new guy comes in but i think he's convinved a club that basically runs off itself is the way to go despite the almost 100% failure of any club thats run like that to compete. Time will tell but i don't see any money being made available unless we sell the last of the silver (Bent)
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Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.
Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..
Its called ambition, based on your view of the world we would all be swimming around in some a Darwin sludge pool
eh? whats ambitious about moving to a club with no better chance of success?
Blimey Greg, is everything short term with you? We might not be better off than them right at this moment in time, but we are a bigger club than them, have better resources and will be better positioned in time to consistently have an opportunity to achieve more than them. We've been through dark periods in our history before and have bounced back. Those teams, for the most part have spent their entire existence in the lower divisions because its as far as they tend to go.
To emphasise the point, if any of the Norwich or Swansea playes had the chance to sign for us they would take it, thier managers know this.
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Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.
Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..
Its called ambition, based on your view of the world we would all be swimming around in some a Darwin sludge pool
eh? whats ambitious about moving to a club with no better chance of success?
Blimey Greg, is everything short term with you? We might not be better off than them right at this moment in time, but we are a bigger club than them, have better resources and will be better positioned in time to consistently have an opportunity to achieve more than them. We've been through dark periods in our history before and have bounced back. Those teams, for the most part have spent their entire existence in the lower divisions because its as far as they tend to go.
To emphasise the point, if any of the Norwich or Swansea playes had the chance to sign for us they would take it, thier managers know this.
we haven't got the money to sign them so it doesn't matter. More to the point if lambert wanted to bring some of his "rubbish" players to improve us he couldn't.
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Strange i know but i do think Greg has a point. The reserves are doing very well and all cred to the coaches but who remembers who wins the reserves title? The reserves are there to support the first eleven and to bring young players through and to do that they need players with some experience to help them develope. As for up and coming managers i would be wary of one season wonders, Blackpool for half a season looked like title contenders last season would you want their manager? At the end of the day we probably appointed the worst possible option, i just wonder how those who wanted Houllier out at all cost feel about it now.
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Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.
Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..
Its called ambition, based on your view of the world we would all be swimming around in some a Darwin sludge pool
eh? whats ambitious about moving to a club with no better chance of success?
Blimey Greg, is everything short term with you? We might not be better off than them right at this moment in time, but we are a bigger club than them, have better resources and will be better positioned in time to consistently have an opportunity to achieve more than them. We've been through dark periods in our history before and have bounced back. Those teams, for the most part have spent their entire existence in the lower divisions because its as far as they tend to go.
To emphasise the point, if any of the Norwich or Swansea playes had the chance to sign for us they would take it, thier managers know this.
we haven't got the money to sign them so it doesn't matter. More to the point if lambert wanted to bring some of his "rubbish" players to improve us he couldn't.
Which is exactly the opposite of what has been said recently. The main point has always been to get the wages in order. Once they get a relationship between revenues and wages that they can live we will continue to operate accordingly. That still means that we can buy very good players, so the transfer money will be available, but it also means that the wages will not cripple us. No more Sidwell's/Beye's/Young's/Heskey's etc. Essentially bit part players soaking us dry. Surely even you can make the distinction?
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ah now we're getting somewhere. See this is my worry. People think Lerner is going to loosen the purse strings if a new guy comes in but i think he's convinved a club that basically runs off itself is the way to go despite the almost 100% failure of any club thats run like that to compete. Time will tell but i don't see any money being made available unless we sell the last of the silver (Bent)
of course any new guy is going to have to work the the squad, selling a bloke that scores the odd goal but cant controll a football is not the biggest problem
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I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.
On the face of it, sure, but the circumstances might not be right. For Rodgers, it might be a safer bet for his career to take it slow at the club he's helped build and knows inside out, rather than risking his short-term reputation on a very big and very difficult re-building job at Villa.
You're probably right Monty - in normal life - but I do not think that footballers and therefore most managers are wired the same. They have huge egos and think they are better than the rest. I'd guess that it is this characteristic helps them rise above the many other equally talented players at the younger levels, they just do not doubt their ability.
Look at Carroll for example, he'd have been better learning the ropes at his boyhood club but a bigger team flutters their eyelids and he's off. On the flipside I wonder whether Curbishley regrets not leaving Charlton when he was highly regarded. My guess is there are more Carrolls than Curbishleys in football.
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I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.
On the face of it, sure, but the circumstances might not be right. For Rodgers, it might be a safer bet for his career to take it slow at the club he's helped build and knows inside out, rather than risking his short-term reputation on a very big and very difficult re-building job at Villa.
You're probably right Monty - in normal life - but I do not think that footballers and therefore most managers are wired the same. They have huge egos and think they are better than the rest. I'd guess that it is this characteristic helps them rise above the many other equally talented players at the younger levels, they just do not doubt their ability.
Look at Carroll for example, he'd have been better learning the ropes at his boyhood club but a bigger team flutters their eyelids and he's off. On the flipside I wonder whether Curbishley regrets not leaving Charlton when he was highly regarded. My guess is there are more Carrolls than Curbishleys in football.
Well true, but Rodgers in particular is different. He may be the exception, but if he doesn't want to manage Chelsea's rebuilding job and general situation, I can't imagine he wants to come to us.
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I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.
On the face of it, sure, but the circumstances might not be right. For Rodgers, it might be a safer bet for his career to take it slow at the club he's helped build and knows inside out, rather than risking his short-term reputation on a very big and very difficult re-building job at Villa.
You're probably right Monty - in normal life - but I do not think that footballers and therefore most managers are wired the same. They have huge egos and think they are better than the rest. I'd guess that it is this characteristic helps them rise above the many other equally talented players at the younger levels, they just do not doubt their ability.
Look at Carroll for example, he'd have been better learning the ropes at his boyhood club but a bigger team flutters their eyelids and he's off. On the flipside I wonder whether Curbishley regrets not leaving Charlton when he was highly regarded. My guess is there are more Carrolls than Curbishleys in football.
Well true, but Rodgers in particular is different. He may be the exception, but if he doesn't want to manage Chelsea's rebuilding job and general situation, I can't imagine he wants to come to us.
Ill think you will find that Rogers recently made a statement sugesting that he is available for the right opportunity.
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I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.
On the face of it, sure, but the circumstances might not be right. For Rodgers, it might be a safer bet for his career to take it slow at the club he's helped build and knows inside out, rather than risking his short-term reputation on a very big and very difficult re-building job at Villa.
You're probably right Monty - in normal life - but I do not think that footballers and therefore most managers are wired the same. They have huge egos and think they are better than the rest. I'd guess that it is this characteristic helps them rise above the many other equally talented players at the younger levels, they just do not doubt their ability.
Look at Carroll for example, he'd have been better learning the ropes at his boyhood club but a bigger team flutters their eyelids and he's off. On the flipside I wonder whether Curbishley regrets not leaving Charlton when he was highly regarded. My guess is there are more Carrolls than Curbishleys in football.
Well true, but Rodgers in particular is different. He may be the exception, but if he doesn't want to manage Chelsea's rebuilding job and general situation, I can't imagine he wants to come to us.
Ill think you will find that Rogers recently made a statement sugesting that he is available for the right opportunity.
Well he very specifically said Chelsea aren't the right opportunity. I doubt Villa would be either.
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Strange i know but i do think Greg has a point. The reserves are doing very well and all cred to the coaches but who remembers who wins the reserves title? The reserves are there to support the first eleven and to bring young players through and to do that they need players with some experience to help them develope. As for up and coming managers i would be wary of one season wonders, Blackpool for half a season looked like title contenders last season would you want their manager? At the end of the day we probably appointed the worst possible option, i just wonder how those who wanted Houllier out at all cost feel about it now.
I guess that no one believed we would appoint Mcleish.
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I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.
On the face of it, sure, but the circumstances might not be right. For Rodgers, it might be a safer bet for his career to take it slow at the club he's helped build and knows inside out, rather than risking his short-term reputation on a very big and very difficult re-building job at Villa.
You're probably right Monty - in normal life - but I do not think that footballers and therefore most managers are wired the same. They have huge egos and think they are better than the rest. I'd guess that it is this characteristic helps them rise above the many other equally talented players at the younger levels, they just do not doubt their ability.
Look at Carroll for example, he'd have been better learning the ropes at his boyhood club but a bigger team flutters their eyelids and he's off. On the flipside I wonder whether Curbishley regrets not leaving Charlton when he was highly regarded. My guess is there are more Carrolls than Curbishleys in football.
Well true, but Rodgers in particular is different. He may be the exception, but if he doesn't want to manage Chelsea's rebuilding job and general situation, I can't imagine he wants to come to us.
Ill think you will find that Rogers recently made a statement sugesting that he is available for the right opportunity.
Well he very specifically said Chelsea aren't the right opportunity. I doubt Villa would be either.
I have no idea, and you dont either.
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I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.
On the face of it, sure, but the circumstances might not be right. For Rodgers, it might be a safer bet for his career to take it slow at the club he's helped build and knows inside out, rather than risking his short-term reputation on a very big and very difficult re-building job at Villa.
You're probably right Monty - in normal life - but I do not think that footballers and therefore most managers are wired the same. They have huge egos and think they are better than the rest. I'd guess that it is this characteristic helps them rise above the many other equally talented players at the younger levels, they just do not doubt their ability.
Look at Carroll for example, he'd have been better learning the ropes at his boyhood club but a bigger team flutters their eyelids and he's off. On the flipside I wonder whether Curbishley regrets not leaving Charlton when he was highly regarded. My guess is there are more Carrolls than Curbishleys in football.
Well true, but Rodgers in particular is different. He may be the exception, but if he doesn't want to manage Chelsea's rebuilding job and general situation, I can't imagine he wants to come to us.
Monty, the criteria at Chelsea is massively different to us. They have an owner that has essentially chewed up some of the best managers in the game because of his obsession with one prize. Rebuilding them comes with the expectation of winning major silverware every season, and within the second year having won the CL. A manager coming to us would do so with far, far less expectation. Hell, given where we have been the last two years, winning 3 or 4 games on the trot would win you a lot followers, let alone a trophy of any nature.
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Hell, given where we have been the last two years, winning 3 or 4 games on the trot would win you a lot followers, let alone a trophy of any nature.
I agree Toronto. I think that there could be a "perfect storm" for the next manager. People are largely over pinning for MON and equally do not expect european qualification. The Houllier and AMc experiments would afford any manager a large amount of good will.
Then you add the youth coming through and the dead wood leaving meaning that the manager might have a bit of room to do some wheeling and dealing.
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If we assume our first choice eleven is Given, Hutton, Collins, Dunne, Warnock, N'Zogbia, Petrov, Ireland Jenas, Agbonlahor and Bent, that would give us reserves of:
Guzan, Cuellar, Clark, Delph, Albrighton, Heskey, Bannan and Delfouneso before we get into the youth team.
So we do have reserves. It's just that most of them are injured. And I'm sure greg you don't expect us to have two whole reserve teams?
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Look at Carroll for example, he'd have been better learning the ropes at his boyhood club but a bigger team flutters their eyelids and he's off. On the flipside I wonder whether Curbishley regrets not leaving Charlton when he was highly regarded. My guess is there are more Carrolls than Curbishleys in football.
I would say Carroll, even though he might want to leave due to increase money at Liverpool - I would say he was pushed out the door by Newcastle with the amount of money splashed around on his transfer. In the end he probably had very little option in not going to Liverpool. Your man Ashley wants to operate a lot like Randy does now...
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I'm quite relaxed about the relegation issue. If we go down from this position with the teams that are below us then we absolutely deserve to. If we can't get the 3 or 4 points from the games we have left then we will have no complaints.
The whole club will have to hang it's head in collective shame, Randy will look the biggest prat in sports history for spending so much money and getting relegated and us lot will just have to lie low for the summer.
Great eh.
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See, I think we could be down for a long time if we do drop. That's the worst thing about it. I can't see us bouncing back under the inept leadership of Randy Lerner. Our debts won't go away, we will lose our best players, gates will drop further and our brittle confidence will face stiff competition in a league that is very competitive.
Relegation would be an absolute disaster for us. Like Leeds or Sheffield Wednesday we could be looking at a decade out of top flight football.
As I said yesterday we simply have to galvanise. We as fans need to do out bit to keep the club up. Otherwise we're relying on Lerner and McLeish to do it. It's more our club than theirs.
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. Otherwise we're relying on Lerner and McLeish to do it.
How frightening is that.
One is a disinterested invisible man and the other isn't fit for purpose.
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I honestly did not think that this was even a possibility and after the Fulham game I had pretty much said ‘right this miserable season is over, let’s try to look forward.’ However, the problem seems to be that everything is conspiring against us right now and as fans we are like rabbits in the headlights, with a juggernaut heading straight at us.
In all conceivable circumstances we should have just enough to pick up a result and steer clear. Despite the results of the other teams around us, who were always going to make a fist of it at the end of the season, our destiny lies firmly in our hands.
If, god forbid, we do go down then we will thoroughly deserve it given the players we have and the resources we have available. The buck stops well and truly at McLeish and Lerner, but even with the clown and the invisible man running things we still should not be where we are and the players ought to, as professionals, realise that.
Relegation for Villa would be catastrophic. It would be a press frenzy that will render the back pages unreadable for those of us who love the club. It would destroy our very proud record of playing in every premiership season. It would set the club back a decade, particularly as the very people that led to relegation would still be there. It would wipe our once great club off the radar and from a purely selfish ex-pat point of view would prevent me from ever seeing the team I love, other than visits to VP.
I have properly got the fear right now and am so damn angry that our club has been so utterly mismanaged that we are where we are.
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The main point has always been to get the wages in order. Once they get a relationship between revenues and wages that they can live we will continue to operate accordingly. That still means that we can buy very good players, so the transfer money will be available, but it also means that the wages will not cripple us. No more Sidwell's/Beye's/Young's/Heskey's etc. Essentially bit part players soaking us dry. Surely even you can make the distinction?
The trouble is that I reckon we're a good couple of years from getting back on track financially, such has been the mismanagement. Even if wages are slowly being bought under control, the amounts we owe short term (ie less than a year) outstrip debtors by £65m, so Lerner is going to have keep pumping money in just to pay the bills. I really cannot stress enough what an utter mess the last accounts show the club is in financially.
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The main point has always been to get the wages in order. Once they get a relationship between revenues and wages that they can live we will continue to operate accordingly. That still means that we can buy very good players, so the transfer money will be available, but it also means that the wages will not cripple us. No more Sidwell's/Beye's/Young's/Heskey's etc. Essentially bit part players soaking us dry. Surely even you can make the distinction?
The trouble is that I reckon we're a good couple of years from getting back on track financially, such has been the mismanagement. Even if wages are slowly being bought under control, the amounts we owe short term (ie less than a year) outstrip debtors by £65m, so Lerner is going to have keep pumping money in just to pay the bills. I really cannot stress enough what an utter mess the last accounts show the club is in financially.
And say we go down Risso, what would it take to stop the club sinking into a Sheffield Weds size hole? Are we talking major costcutting and firesales?
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I honestly did not think that this was even a possibility and after the Fulham game I had pretty much said ‘right this miserable season is over, let’s try to look forward.’ However, the problem seems to be that everything is conspiring against us right now and as fans we are like rabbits in the headlights, with a juggernaut heading straight at us.
Me too. But now we're seeing clubs below us fighting and getting points on the board - three in a row for Bolton, QPR beating both Liverpool and Arsenal, Wigan winning two on the spin. The gap is closing. We failed to make the most of winnable games earlier on in the season when we had pretty much a full squad to select from - for 3/4 of the season we've had barely any injuries.
Now we really do have injury woes - the bench on Saturday was amazing - and we've lost momentum.
That said, I think two wins would do it. Need to find them from somewhere.
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Looking at the fixtures, I think we have three key games to finally put any relegation thoughts to bed. Those are the home games against Stoke, Sunderland and Bolton. Two wins from them, with preferrably one coming against Bolton, will see us OK.
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Have we ever had a season in the PL when we've gone a full season without back to back wins We must be the only team that hasnt I think even Wolves have. Shocking
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I honestly did not think that this was even a possibility and after the Fulham game I had pretty much said ‘right this miserable season is over, let’s try to look forward.’ However, the problem seems to be that everything is conspiring against us right now and as fans we are like rabbits in the headlights, with a juggernaut heading straight at us.
Me too. But now we're seeing clubs below us fighting and getting points on the board - three in a row for Bolton, QPR beating both Liverpool and Arsenal, Wigan winning two on the spin. The gap is closing. We failed to make the most of winnable games earlier on in the season when we had pretty much a full squad to select from - for 3/4 of the season we've had barely any injuries.
Now we really do have injury woes - the bench on Saturday was amazing - and we've lost momentum.
That said, I think two wins would do it. Need to find them from somewhere.
We were looking pretty safe after Fulham, but we all knew that picture wouldn't be as pretty after the last two games, if we're being honest. As I see it, the likes of QPR have had their best run of the season, but are more likely to be crap again than they are to continue it. And as we've still got a 5 point lead, that's enough of a buffer to stumble our way to safety.
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This thread is like a mirror image of the threads I took great pleasure in reading on the SHA messageboard last season
Never under estimate Mcleish He took Blues down from a similar position when the pundits were saying they were safe as houses with arguably a stronger side than ours at the moment
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And lets be sure about it, it will get worse before it get better. We will lose more than likely on Saturday and if Stoke don't score against us from their corner/throw in speciality then I'll be amazed.
We have to beat Bolton that's about the size of it.
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Our GD is worth a point so effectively we have a 6 point buffer for the others to overhaul. We need one win from somewhere to get us to 36 which is what I reckon will be the cut off point. Hopefully a couple of other results elsewhere will nudge us to 38+.
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This thread is like a mirror image of the threads I took great pleasure in reading on the SHA messageboard last season
Never under estimate Mcleish He took Blues down from a similar position when the pundits were saying they were safe as houses with arguably a stronger side than ours at the moment
Ah yes, but at Blues, he had a horrible injury crisis in the run-in.
Oh .......
FWIW, what will quite possibly bite us on the arse is our failure to harvest points (as in, three at a time) earlier in the season when we had no injury crisis, and had poor teams to play.
Two points from six against Wigan and Blackburn not that long ago doesn't help, either.
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We have to beat Bolton that's about the size of it.
In the same way that Blues had to beat Fulham you mean ?
I'm officially bricking it
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5 points off the drop zone with teams below us picking up vital points. I believe we are in the shit especially with the mounting injury list. Lets hope we can atleast get a point at anfield and go all out for a win against stoke on monday. 4 points from the next 2 games puts us on 37 which i believe will be just about enough
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We have to beat Bolton that's about the size of it.
In the same way that Blues had to beat Fulham you mean ?
I'm officially bricking it
That was THE most gutless performance from a team that I've ever seen. Fulham should have been about 6 up by half time. I expect McLeish is bricking it as well. To take two Midlands teams down in consecutive seasons would effectively end his career as a manager.
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Yeah, the situation isn't great, is it? I think we'll probably just about stay up, but being relegated certainly isn't as far-fetched as I'd like it to be.
If we were to be relegated, would McLeish's then three relegations from the top flight be a record?
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If we assume our first choice eleven is Given, Hutton, Collins, Dunne, Warnock, N'Zogbia, Petrov, Ireland Jenas, Agbonlahor and Bent, that would give us reserves of:
Guzan, Cuellar, Clark, Delph, Albrighton, Heskey, Bannan and Delfouneso before we get into the youth team.
So we do have reserves. It's just that most of them are injured. And I'm sure greg you don't expect us to have two whole reserve teams?
heh. Well i certainly wouldn't class Bannon as a reserve yet. What's his appearances, about 14 starts and about 30 overall? Hardly knows the way to the home dressing room. Likewise Clarke who's made about 20 i think. Albrighton i suppose is now probably more out of necessity that choice. Certainly on his form this season he's not going to be much more than a reserve
So using my definition of a reserve (ie played some games at a decent level) that leaves us Brad (gone in the summer) Carlos( gone in the summer), Heskey (gone in the summer hopefully), delpth (larf) and the Fonz.
Actually the Fonz is a good example of getting your hopes up about these kids. Two years ago you couldn't move on here for people claiming he was gonna be a star. Now he's been passed over for Weimann and probably will be out the door. Someone mentioned Moore at Swansea - another one who was going to be a great- so now after 4 years of leaving us he's a reserve at swansea. Well if we're gonna have to wait till they're 26 before they're good enough to hold down a reserve place with us then wake me up in 2016 when we take the Championship by storm
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Pretty much agree Nastylee but goal difference can soon get eroded if we continue to lose. We're on -9, Blackburn and QPR are on -19. If we lose and they win games that 10 point gap can disappear pretty quickly. Having said that I think we'll get just enough to stay up. Draws against Sturk and Martinoneillssunderland, followed by a win against Bolton will see us more than safe.
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I can't concentrate on work today I'm so worried about the villa.
I actually think we will go down. Teams below us have more fight. Does anybody expect us to beat Sunderland or Stoke? Or Bolton for that matter?
We fans are our last hope. It's up to us now to give it a last throw of the dice and stand up for AVFC.
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That was THE most gutless performance from a team that I've ever seen. Fulham should have been about 6 up by half time.
He must have been delighted to have kept it down to 3-0 by the end then;)
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We fans are our last hope. It's up to us now to give it a last throw of the dice and stand up for AVFC.
We've got to make some incredible noise in our remaining home games, that's all we can do as supporters.
We're officialy in the shit and the depth will now vary.
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If we assume our first choice eleven is Given, Hutton, Collins, Dunne, Warnock, N'Zogbia, Petrov, Ireland Jenas, Agbonlahor and Bent, that would give us reserves of:
Guzan, Cuellar, Clark, Delph, Albrighton, Heskey, Bannan and Delfouneso before we get into the youth team.
So we do have reserves. It's just that most of them are injured. And I'm sure greg you don't expect us to have two whole reserve teams?
heh. Well i certainly wouldn't class Bannon as a reserve yet. What's his appearances, about 14 starts and about 30 overall? Hardly knows the way to the home dressing room. Likewise Clarke who's made about 20 i think. Albrighton i suppose is now probably more out of necessity that choice. Certainly on his form this season he's not going to be much more than a reserve
So using my definition of a reserve (ie played some games at a decent level) that leaves us Brad (gone in the summer) Carlos( gone in the summer), Heskey (gone in the summer hopefully), delpth (larf) and the Fonz.
God almighty, Greg, that's utterly nonsensical.
Under your definition:
Delfouneso (started 13 games in 4 years) = a reserve.
Clark (started 35 games) = not a reserve.
Bannan (started 24 games, has also played for his country, has featured for us this season) = not a reserve.
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I actually think we will go down. Teams below us have more fight. Does anybody expect us to beat Sunderland or Stoke? Or Bolton for that matter?
Well, pretty much nobody expected us to beat Fulham or Norwich either!
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Why is the game against Stoke a 5.30 KO? Can't see it advertised for TV anywhere?
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Why is the game against Stoke a 5.30 KO? Can't see it advertised for TV anywhere?
Is it?? I thought it was a 3pm kick off?? Not happy about that.
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Why is the game against Stoke a 5.30 KO? Can't see it advertised for TV anywhere?
ESPN
Incidentally we haven't won any of our televised games this season so far
Apologies just checked it isn't on
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I think the Stoke kick-off time is because they are playing live at 5.30 on Saturday and they have to have a minimum gap of 48 hours between games.
We are in big trouble, we need to win our home games against Stoke, Sunderland and Bolton and our home form over the season doesn't suggest we will. Everyone who is talking about 36 or 38 points is living dangerously. I always think 42 is a guarantee of safety, only West Ham ever went down with that many points. Anything less is a big gamble.
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If we assume our first choice eleven is Given, Hutton, Collins, Dunne, Warnock, N'Zogbia, Petrov, Ireland Jenas, Agbonlahor and Bent, that would give us reserves of:
Guzan, Cuellar, Clark, Delph, Albrighton, Heskey, Bannan and Delfouneso before we get into the youth team.
So we do have reserves. It's just that most of them are injured. And I'm sure greg you don't expect us to have two whole reserve teams?
heh. Well i certainly wouldn't class Bannon as a reserve yet. What's his appearances, about 14 starts and about 30 overall? Hardly knows the way to the home dressing room. Likewise Clarke who's made about 20 i think. Albrighton i suppose is now probably more out of necessity that choice. Certainly on his form this season he's not going to be much more than a reserve
So using my definition of a reserve (ie played some games at a decent level) that leaves us Brad (gone in the summer) Carlos( gone in the summer), Heskey (gone in the summer hopefully), delpth (larf) and the Fonz.
God almighty, Greg, that's utterly nonsensical.
Under your definition:
Delfouneso (started 13 games in 4 years) = a reserve.
Clark (started 35 games) = not a reserve.
Bannan (started 24 games, has also played for his country, has featured for us this season) = not a reserve.
take your point about the Fonz. So no i wouldn't class him as a reserve.. As for the appearances you're including cup games against lower opposition where teams traditionally play the youth anyway. A few were against decent teams but its 14 starts against premiership teams i'm looking at for Bannon and about 25 for Clarke. Playing for scotland? meh. Be scottish in the premier league and you're virtually guaranteed to be selected anyway.
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You also have to remember that Greg's definition of 'a few' is two and the result of a bet is something only he can decide.
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My head tells me that we could pick up points against Stoke, Sunderland, Bolton, WBA and Norwich and on current their current form against Liverpool and Spuds.
My paranoid alter ego says we will lose all of them and end the season having to field a number of the U14 team.
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I think it’s a real possibility now, If the Bolton game would have been played (if Muamba hadn’t fallen ill) when originally scheduled then we would have got a win which would have been 2 on the bounce and would have gave us a little cushion, we will be facing a more confident Bolton in the rearranged game.
I’m struggling now to see where our next win might come from, we’ve got Liverpool away on Saturday and I’m worried we could be facing a wounded beast with the way there form has gone since they won the league cup. If the youngsters take a hammering at anfield and then have to face a physical Stoke team on Monday it might knock any confidence they have right out of them.
The other thing that worries me is the fact that Wigan have just beaten Liverpool away and Stoke at home but I can’t se us doing that and that might be the problem with our run in, the lack of fight and the lack of experience in relegation battles.
If we do go down this season then Mcleish should never get another job in football again, 3 relegation in 4 seasons would be a disgrace.
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In today's Birmingham Mail, Eckycunt acknowledges that we're in a 'relegation scrap'
How did it come to this?
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In today's Birmingham Mail, Eckycunt acknowledges that we're in a 'relegation scrap'
How did it come to this?
From having a clueless owner and CEO
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In today's Birmingham Mail, Eckycunt acknowledges that we're in a 'relegation scrap'
How did it come to this?
He must be proud. Remember when he was appointed? Talking about 'adding his own chapter to villa's illustrious history'? Now he's the manager that has taken us as close as anybody else has to losing our top flight status in almost a quarter of a century.
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In today's Birmingham Mail, Eckycunt acknowledges that we're in a 'relegation scrap'
How did it come to this?
crap players, crap manager, crap owner. Think that about covers it.
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In today's Birmingham Mail, Eckycunt acknowledges that we're in a 'relegation scrap'
How did it come to this?
crap players, crap manager, crap owner. Think that about covers it.
Whilst I agree that the owner and manager are a pile of shit, I wouldn't say the players are.
Not of sufficient quality, but certainly not bottom 5.
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Whilst I agree that the owner and manager are a pile of shit, I wouldn't say the players are.
Not of sufficient quality, but certainly not bottom 5.
That's the thing - even those like me, who haven't turned on AM yet, have to admit he's done a poor job this season given the players he has had to work with.
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I said earlier in the season it would come to this and we have been sleepwalking into a relegation battle, well, we are in one now, as officially confirmed by Sralex this morning in interviews.
How did it come to this ?
By selling our best players and not replacing them, having a total disregard for the supporters and hoping to squeeze through the season just about surviving, having no ambition and totally finishing off this season ticket holder of 35 years, the award must go to Lerner.
A bunch of kids are left to get us out of a relegation place, and for that all concerned should hang their heads in shame.
It's a fucking disgrace.
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In today's Birmingham Mail, Eckycunt acknowledges that we're in a 'relegation scrap'
How did it come to this?
crap players, crap manager, crap owner. Think that about covers it.
Whilst I agree that the owner and manager are a pile of shit, I wouldn't say the players are.
Not of sufficient quality, but certainly not bottom 5.
Rubbish: dunne collins, warnock hutton, heskey delpth
Iffy: Ireland, Nzogbia
Decent: carlos, Petrov given Bent gabby
rest are unproven
given the injuries and what left's left to pick from i'm not surprised we've been dragged in
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In today's Birmingham Mail, Eckycunt acknowledges that we're in a 'relegation scrap'
How did it come to this?
crap players, crap manager, crap owner. Think that about covers it.
Whilst I agree that the owner and manager are a pile of shit, I wouldn't say the players are.
Not of sufficient quality, but certainly not bottom 5.
Rubbish: dunne collins, warnock hutton, heskey delpth
Iffy: Ireland, Nzogbia
Decent: carlos, Petrov given Bent gabby
rest are unproven
given the injuries and what left's left to pick from i'm not surprised we've been dragged in
But did't the majority of that squad finish 6th three times in a row?
Yes we've lost key members, but that squad of players you've listed should'nt be 5 points off the relegation trap door.
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McLeish should be getting better from the defence in particular.
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In today's Birmingham Mail, Eckycunt acknowledges that we're in a 'relegation scrap'
How did it come to this?
crap players, crap manager, crap owner. Think that about covers it.
Whilst I agree that the owner and manager are a pile of shit, I wouldn't say the players are.
Not of sufficient quality, but certainly not bottom 5.
Rubbish: dunne collins, warnock hutton, heskey delpth
Iffy: Ireland, Nzogbia
Decent: carlos, Petrov given Bent gabby
rest are unproven
given the injuries and what left's left to pick from i'm not surprised we've been dragged in
But did't the majority of that squad finish 6th three times in a row?
Yes we've lost key members, but that squad of players you've listed should'nt be 5 points off the relegation trap door.
well dunne and collins did it one season. Cuellar Gabby Warnock Petrov. Heskey (don't laugh) so i suppose your right, but when you factor in most of them are past it or have been rotten form wise since well before Mcliesh arrived, they're not really top 6 anymore by a long way.
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given the injuries and what left's left to pick from i'm not surprised we've been dragged in
Me neither, but the injuries and the state of the squad NOW shouldn't detract from what has been the overall picture for most of the season: until the end of Feb we pretty much had a full squad to pick from, other than the injury to Jenas, a player who joined us with injury problems and played a couple of games before getting injured. Other than that, Given missed a handful of games at Christmas (covered very well by Guzan) and we were without Herd for a month or so. I suppose you can say Cuellar was missing at the beginning of the season.
But for three quarters of the season, we've had a full squad. We're properly struggling now, I agree, but we're paying for snoozing through the majority of the season and a lack of ambition in actually trying to win games.
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PS FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, just had to let that out. So many of us saw this coming and it's so frustrating to see it all happening, just as predicted.
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in the mail today their "experts" don't even include us in the reckoning for relegation but they have blackburn, QPR and wigan all finishing on 36 points so we need 4 points. Hmmmm.........
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in the mail today their "experts" don't even include us in the reckoning for relegation but they have blackburn, QPR and wigan all finishing on 36 points so we need 4 points. Hmmmm.........
We'll need only 3 points providing we don't take some absolute hammerings
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We'll need only 3 points providing we don't take some absolute hammerings
In that case we'll need 4 points...
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What scares me about the possibility of relegation is that I dont see a team that would fight its way back up again
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It goes against the grain a bit but I wish Mcleish would have a bit of confidence in his own footballing ethos. He likes to play the big target man up front so just go the whole hog and pick bloody Heskey. We know he can't score but play him upfront with either Weimann or Gabby and let them pick up the flick ons.
Gabby hasn't got the kind of abilty required to read a flick on so it would have to be Weimann. Stick Gabby on a wing instead of Albrighton and at least go down fighting and being true to yourself.
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It goes against the grain a bit but I wish Mcleish would have a bit of confidence in his own footballing ethos. He likes to play the big target man up front so just go the whole hog and pick bloody Heskey. We know he can't score but play him upfront with either Weimann or Gabby and let them pick up the flick ons.
Gabby hasn't got the kind of abilty required to read a flick on so it would have to be Weimann. Stick Gabby on a wing instead of Albrighton and at least go down fighting and being true to yourself.
I'd play Heskey at centre half if Cuellar's not fit for the Easter games. Baker is not there yet, particularly for such important games. He is experienced enough to do that - much like Dublin a few years ago.
I'm no fan of his but at this time McLeish needs as much experience on the pitch as possible.
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No need to worry, as dirty as it felt for the first time in my life I have bet against the Villa - 12-1 to get relegated. And...I never ever win on football bets.
This is what I believe in managment speak is a win win situation, if we stay up my money has been well spent, if we get relegated I can try to console myself with the funds that generates.
I'm hoping for the former, I can't see McLeish getting the bullet whatever the outcome and have no faith in him keeping us up next year or getting us back.
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[/quote]
I'd play Heskey at centre half if Cuellar's not fit for the Easter games. Baker is not there yet, particularly for such important games. He is experienced enough to do that - much like Dublin a few years ago.
I'm no fan of his but at this time McLeish needs as much experience on the pitch as possible.
[/quote]
Not for me I'm afraid. It's my view that one of the reasons we are in this mess, is that we have been continually let down week in week out by our "experienced players". The thought of Heskey and Warnock being on the pitch just because they have played a few hundred games is awful. They have got us in this mess by playing poorly so we can't do any worse than playing some of the youngsters.
Frustrating part on Saturday was that just like O'Neill he played square pegs in round holes just to get players into the team. Gardner on the left and Bannan on the right, what's that all about?. If the next player in line who can play left wing is Daniel Johnson, then bloody play Daniel Johnson. Play Albrighton on the right if there isn't anyone else to play there. It's not rocket science is it?.
So, if the only fit centrr backs we have are Collins, Baker and Williams, then pick two of the three. Don't, for the love of god, as someone to play there who never has.
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Have to say, didn't recognize Chelsea form the last time I saw them at Villa park season before last, that said there was still significant difference, you could see the huff and puff from Villa, Chelsea didn't turn it on until they had to, seemed at half pace, but that could be down to an out of form side.
As for Villa, well they are almost beyond recognition, McLiesh is not the man to front Villa, not in a million years, said last week in the unlikely scenario that Villa would only pick up a few more points and then for the teams below us to start winning, Villa would be safe.
From what I can see I could imagine Villa could struggle from here on in and out of the blue the teams below us are starting to pick up points, McLiesh must be thinking, "you couldn't make this up" but there you have it.
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No need to worry, as dirty as it felt for the first time in my life I have bet against the Villa - 12-1 to get relegated. And...I never ever win on football bets.
This is what I believe in managment speak is a win win situation, if we stay up my money has been well spent, if we get relegated I can try to console myself with the funds that generates.
I'm hoping for the former, I can't see McLeish getting the bullet whatever the outcome and have no faith in him keeping us up next year or getting us back.
I call it "Pain Insurance" and it's a sound philosophy in my book. Bending the laws of Karma and all that.
I think I will be doing the same. The only way I'll be able to guarantee Villa staying up is by jinxing the whole thing and sticking a bet on us to go down. The way I reason it out is by asking myself how much would I be willing to spend if it guaranteed Villa would stay up? I then stick that amount on the bet for relegation. I did it last year...and I'm going to have to do it this year too *sigh*.
As soon as the bet's on just you watch the Villa boys turn on the style - money well spent!
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It's sad times when I've almost written off the games vs Liverpool, Stoke, Man Yoo, Spudz as all losses. If we get anything out of those it will be a bonus for me. 4 points from Bolton, West Brom, Sunderland, Norwich is what we need, at a scrape.
Trouble is, the next 3 games being Liverpool, Stoke, and Man Yoo could leave us right in the mire and the pressure well and truly on by the time we get to the Sunderland game. No telling how far down moral will be by then.
The Liverpool and Stoke games are so so big now in terms of momentum. Just win one from them and that "should" do us, unless we lose ALL remaining games...
So so worried...
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We have more chance of beating Liverpool away than Sunderland at home.
WBA on a bad run so could sneak into trouble.I think Bolton ,Stoke and WBA are the games we need to win a few draws elsewhere and we will be fine
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the Stoke game is masive,if we dont win that then i really think we are heading for the trap door! If we can get 3 points off Stoke however and a win at home against Bolton or Sunderland we will be fine!
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I sometimes even now struggle to believe that AM is our manager. It's like a bad dream. But then you wake up and it's true. The kids will need to dig deep and play well or else we will go down. If AM tells them to play on the wrong wings again they should ignore the moron and switch. I put our chances of staying up at 60/40.
I know what you mean Tony . Sometimes I read the football news and see AMC as Villa manager and think FFS , when do I wake up , it just does not look right.
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I said at the start of the year we could be dragged into a relegation fight because I didn't see enough spirit in the squad compared to the teams below us, even though we had a pretty good buffer in points. Even a short time ago we had an 8 point gap and with so few games to go, we looked safe after our fortunate win against Fulham, but we've sunk to a lower level and the teams below us are fighting harder than Villa seem capable of.
I'm really worried now that we could be sucked in if we don't get anything from the next three games and a couple of the teams below us get three points and all of a sudden the gap is down to two and the pressure's really on, because Villa don't look like they have the toughness required, especially with McLeish's style of play.
Just hoping we can scrounge another three or four points from somewhere.
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I was on a stag do and missed the game. I do really think there's a high chance of relegation. We're in terrible form, with no experience in midfield and little at the back.
A villa fan on the stag do was suggesting it might nOt be a bad thing to go down. Get rid of the overpaid older players, see if the kids are actually any good, attack, score goals and go on winning runs. Not sure I agree but I can see the point.
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It would be a terrible thing if we went down.
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Going down would be horrible a cost the club millions!!!!!!
FFS!!!!!!!!!! who employed this Helmet!!!!!
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I sometimes even now struggle to believe that AM is our manager. It's like a bad dream. But then you wake up and it's true. The kids will need to dig deep and play well or else we will go down. If AM tells them to play on the wrong wings again they should ignore the moron and switch. I put our chances of staying up at 60/40.
I know what you mean Tony . Sometimes I read the football news and see AMC as Villa manager and think FFS , when do I wake up , it just does not look right.
its funny you say that.
I have said before, that even when I see him on the telly, with the club badge on his clothes, infront of the club badge, talking about the team, I stll don't see him as our manager.
I don't think I've listened to a full interview he has given, or read an interview with him.
The sooner he has gone the better.
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What scares me about the possibility of relegation is that I dont see a team that would fight its way back up again
Not always a bad thing to get rid of the passengers. For example, despite having a squad thinner than a vegan's turd, SHA aren't doing too badly.
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With parachute payments anyone know what kind of hit we would take. Obviously a fire sale would happen.
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It would be terrible if we went down, but the saddest thing is that it would have been completely unnecessary.
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It would be terrible if we went down, but the saddest thing is that it would have been completely unnecessary.
Edited. Many apologies to the quoted poster.
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At least the season tickets will be a bargain with all those extra games...
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At least the season tickets will be a bargain with all those extra games...
I can't stomach the thought of the marketing..."Secure your tickets for this weekend's mouthwatering home tie against Peterborough"...
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At least the season tickets will be a bargain with all those extra games...
I can't stomach the thought of the marketing..."Secure your tickets for this weekend's mouthwatering home tie against Peterborough"...
Stop it, too close to the bone that.
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I still think Blackburn are going down.
On 28 points and their final 3 games of the season are Spurs and Chelsea away and Wigan at home. I can see them losing all three games.
A point people are missing is the penultimate game of the season is Blackburn v Wigan. I really can't see how the loser of that game is going to stay particularly if that's Wigan.
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Wigan's downfall in the end might be the amount of chances they miss. I saw them against Albion the other week and how they did'nt win by 3 or 4 goals was a mystery. They should have scored more than they did at the weekend as well. Hopefully someone sooner or later will give them a tonking and knock their confidence.
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At least the season tickets will be a bargain with all those extra games...
I'm already preparing my, 'WE'LL BE BACK' banner.
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Having looked at the fixtures, I think that the points total required is higher than people were expecting, relegation could be decided by West Brom, they play us QPR Blacburn and Bolton.
Wigan and QPR have the toughest run in, we need 2 wins to be certain of safety and with the depleted squad we have its pretty difficult to work out who we might beat. We are a couple of results and injuries away from a crisis. We are in very deep shit.
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I get Bolton safe before the last game.
15 Wigan 40 points, beat Wolves last game
16 Villa 38, draw at Norwich
17 Albion 37, lose to Arsenal but only 2-1 to stay up by one goal of goal difference
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18 Blackburn 37, get impressive draw at nothing-to-play-for-Chelsea but it proves not enough
19 QPR 36, last day loss at title-chasing Man City but Man U still win title by winning at Mons
20 Wolves 26, down ages ago
Out of interest, how the hell do you get Wigan on 40 points???!!!
Lose their next three, then win their last four games (away to Fulham, home to Newcastle, away to Blackburn, home to Wolves). There's always one team who puts a string of impressive results together, and it's quite often Wigan.
Incidentally, we're already one point better off as I had Blackburn down to draw tonight. So we'll finish two points clear of the drop, not one.
I hope I've calmed everybody's fears.
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Having looked at the fixtures, I think that the points total required is higher than people were expecting, relegation could be decided by West Brom, they play us QPR Blacburn and Bolton.
Wigan and QPR have the toughest run in, we need 2 wins to be certain of safety and with the depleted squad we have its pretty difficult to work out who we might beat. We are a couple of results and injuries away from a crisis. We are in very deep shit.
I think to be sure 38 will be needed following the run of form the bottom sides have hit, which in fairness we predicted would happen, although I never followed the logic that we would also hit a decent patch! I think we will beat Stoke though for some reason, and then grab a draw along the way to end on 37. Then all cross our fingers, look skywards and hope it is enough.
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It would be a terrible thing if we went down.
Yes.
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It would be a terrible thing if we went down.
Yes.
I don't think you'd see us again for a while That's for sure We would be in the absolute shit financially
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It would be a terrible thing if we went down.
Yes.
I don't think you'd see us again for a while That's for sure We would be in the absolute shit financially
well, it's difficult to say: depends on who the maanger is (probably McL and his coterie); the fact that there is a parachute payment; the fact that we'd hopefully still have the core of the kids who would be able to mature into regular first-team appearances ...
am I being too optimistic?!
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Bolton 39 pts
Villa 36
QPR 35
Wigan 34
Blackburn 33
Wolves 23
We will draw against Stoke, Bolton and Norwich.
This was based on Blackburn losing against Utd. For a few horrible moments last night, it looked like they would draw or even sneak it. This is how desperate it has become.
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It would be a terrible thing if we went down.
Yes.
I don't think you'd see us again for a while That's for sure We would be in the absolute shit financially
well, it's difficult to say: depends on who the maanger is (probably McL and his coterie); the fact that there is a parachute payment; the fact that we'd hopefully still have the core of the kids who would be able to mature into regular first-team appearances ...
am I being too optimistic?!
Yes you are, lerner will sell the promising kids as soon as he gets a decent offer .
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And the high earners that nobody wants will cripple us
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It would be a terrible thing if we went down.
Yes.
I don't think you'd see us again for a while That's for sure We would be in the absolute shit financially
well, it's difficult to say: depends on who the maanger is (probably McL and his coterie); the fact that there is a parachute payment; the fact that we'd hopefully still have the core of the kids who would be able to mature into regular first-team appearances ...
am I being too optimistic?!
Yes you are, lerner will sell the promising kids as soon as he gets a decent offer .
I'm not quite as cycnical about that issue, Eastie, although on previous form you're right to make the point.
With the reduction in wages and the presumed departure of Bent, N'Zogbia and possibly Ireland (the three most likely to demand a move and command a decent fee) I think we'd retain our core of kids for the Championship fight and future of the squad.
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Just done the BBC predictor and have us going down on 37. That was with us only picking up 4 points from 4 draws and no wins, and being fairly generous to QPR , Bolton, Wigan and Blackburn. One win and a couple of draws might be enough, but not confident we can even beat Bolton or Stoke at home.
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when I did the predictor about 4 weeks ago , I had us surviving just . But I also put aresnal to win at QPR and Liverpool to win at Wigan etc etc etc . FFS , we are in trouble.
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Newcastle managed to hold on to their players, and win the Championship. Surely we could?
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Newcastle managed to hold on to their players, and win the Championship. Surely we could?
Newcastle have a much lower wage structure than us
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Newcastle managed to hold on to their players, and win the Championship. Surely we could?
would we want to hold on to them?
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Just said on radio , small heath were 1 point better off them us at the same time last year
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My thoughts were:
From beginning of season until about October: Yes.
Then October until February: No (after seeing what how poor teams were in the league).
From mid February until now I think: Maybe, yes.
One issue we have (amongst many) is that we usually have a run of injuries mid-season, with players coming back to lift performances towards the end of the season. This season our injuries are coinciding with the crunch games at the latter part.
Relying on inexperienced players to glide us through the quagmire of mid-season vacillations is one thing, relying on them to power us through a full on relegation battle is quite another.
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Newcastle managed to hold on to their players, and win the Championship. Surely we could?
Newcastle have a much lower wage structure than us
Quite possibly. But they had a few big earners on the books then. Barton, Nolan, Coloccini, Enrique, Alan Smith
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Newcastle managed to hold on to their players, and win the Championship. Surely we could?
Newcastle have a much lower wage structure than us
Quite possibly. But they had a few big earners on the books then. Barton, Nolan, Coloccini, Enrique, Alan Smith
and done much better getting rid of most of them .
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The difference between us and Newcastle is that when they went down, they didn't really have a particularly good squad in the first place, so found it easier to keep their side together.
They had, for example, no Darren Bent, who would be straight off if we went down. Or Shay Given, for that matter.
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The difference between us and Newcastle is that when they went down, they didn't really have a particularly good squad in the first place, so found it easier to keep their side together.
They had, for example, no Darren Bent, who would be straight off if we went down. Or Shay Given, for that matter.
Michael Owen was then as good as Bent is now.
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The difference between us and Newcastle is that when they went down, they didn't really have a particularly good squad in the first place, so found it easier to keep their side together.
They had, for example, no Darren Bent, who would be straight off if we went down. Or Shay Given, for that matter.
Michael Owen was then as good as Bent is now.
If you mean injured, then I agree!
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My bash at the predictor:
(http://oi39.tinypic.com/25ez5ee.jpg)
with us drawing at anfield beating stoke and bolton and losing the rest.
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Newcastle managed to hold on to their players, and win the Championship. Surely we could?
Newcastle have a much lower wage structure than us
Quite possibly. But they had a few big earners on the books then. Barton, Nolan, Coloccini, Enrique, Alan Smith
and done much better getting rid of most of them .
Every single one of those players stayed with them for whole time they were in the Championship.
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My bash at the predictor:
(http://oi39.tinypic.com/25ez5ee.jpg)
with us drawing at anfield beating stoke and bolton and losing the rest.
Did mine and had us finishing 15th on 39 points, with those extra 6 coming from home draws to Sunderland and Stoke, away to WBA and beatign Bolton. It also had us being 8 points clear, so some margin for error.
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Newcastle managed to hold on to their players, and win the Championship. Surely we could?
Newcastle have a much lower wage structure than us
Quite possibly. But they had a few big earners on the books then. Barton, Nolan, Coloccini, Enrique, Alan Smith
and done much better getting rid of most of them .
Every single one of those players stayed with them for whole time they were in the Championship.
I meant in the Prem ;) including Carroll
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The difference between us and Newcastle is that when they went down, they didn't really have a particularly good squad in the first place, so found it easier to keep their side together.
They had, for example, no Darren Bent, who would be straight off if we went down. Or Shay Given, for that matter.
I wouldn't be that bothered if Given went. He's a good shot stopper, but doesn't come for crosses which shows from our record of defending set pieces.
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The difference between us and Newcastle is that when they went down, they didn't really have a particularly good squad in the first place, so found it easier to keep their side together.
They had, for example, no Darren Bent, who would be straight off if we went down. Or Shay Given, for that matter.
Michael Owen was then as good as Bent is now.
You're joking, aren't you?
He was permanently injured for a start.
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It's worth poitning out that if we do beat Bolton, which is our game in hand, and we'd be favourites on paper to do so at home, we'd be level with WBA on 36 points, who nobody is talking about in terms of relegation.
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It's worth poitning out that if we do beat Bolton, which is our game in hand, and we'd be favourites on paper to do so at home, we'd be level with WBA on 36 points, who nobody is talking about in terms of relegation.
They've got the three point difference in the bag, though.
The only sides we've beaten at home this season are Blackburn (at their worst), Norwich (squeaked past) and Fulham (93rd minute goal bundled in).
We're hardly dependable at home.
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Newcastle managed to hold on to their players, and win the Championship. Surely we could?
Newcastle have a much lower wage structure than us
Quite possibly. But they had a few big earners on the books then. Barton, Nolan, Coloccini, Enrique, Alan Smith
and done much better getting rid of most of them .
Every single one of those players stayed with them for whole time they were in the Championship.
I meant in the Prem ;) including Carroll
That's fine, but completely irrelevant when the discussion is how teams cope with high-earning players when they are relegated.
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The difference between us and Newcastle is that when they went down, they didn't really have a particularly good squad in the first place, so found it easier to keep their side together.
They had, for example, no Darren Bent, who would be straight off if we went down. Or Shay Given, for that matter.
Michael Owen was then as good as Bent is now.
You're joking, aren't you?
He was permanently injured for a start.
In terms of a footballer Owen was top drawer. In terms of fitness. Shocking.
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It's worth poitning out that if we do beat Bolton, which is our game in hand, and we'd be favourites on paper to do so at home, we'd be level with WBA on 36 points, who nobody is talking about in terms of relegation.
They've got the three point difference in the bag, though.
The only sides we've beaten at home this season are Blackburn (at their worst), Norwich (squeaked past) and Fulham (93rd minute goal bundled in).
We're hardly dependable at home.
True, we aren't. However, when the thread comes round I'll be predicting a home win against Bolton. It might well be our only win for the rest of the season, but I do think we'll get it and that will finish off any relegation fears.
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It's worth poitning out that if we do beat Bolton, which is our game in hand, and we'd be favourites on paper to do so at home, we'd be level with WBA on 36 points, who nobody is talking about in terms of relegation.
They've got the three point difference in the bag, though.
The only sides we've beaten at home this season are Blackburn (at their worst), Norwich (squeaked past) and Fulham (93rd minute goal bundled in).
We're hardly dependable at home.
You're forgetting our win against the mighty Wigan.
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It's worth poitning out that if we do beat Bolton, which is our game in hand, and we'd be favourites on paper to do so at home, we'd be level with WBA on 36 points, who nobody is talking about in terms of relegation.
They've got the three point difference in the bag, though.
The only sides we've beaten at home this season are Blackburn (at their worst), Norwich (squeaked past) and Fulham (93rd minute goal bundled in).
We're hardly dependable at home.
We've won very few at home. None were totally convincing,not even Blackburn. We couldn't beat a very poor QPR. We now have a severely depleted and inexpereinced squad to choose from. We look like we couldn't beat an egg. Those 3 points look like an abyss at the moment.
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We've won very few at home. None were totally convincing,not even Blackburn. We couldn't beat a very poor QPR. We now have a severely depleted and inexpereinced squad to choose from. We look like we couldn't beat an egg. Those 3 points look like an abyss at the moment.
Well let's just hope that the likes of Stoke , Norwich and Spudz are on the beach by the time we play them because it's going to be like an effing cup final for Sunderland and WBA
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It's worth poitning out that if we do beat Bolton, which is our game in hand, and we'd be favourites on paper to do so at home, we'd be level with WBA on 36 points, who nobody is talking about in terms of relegation.
They've got the three point difference in the bag, though.
The only sides we've beaten at home this season are Blackburn (at their worst), Norwich (squeaked past) and Fulham (93rd minute goal bundled in).
We're hardly dependable at home.
You're forgetting our win against the mighty Wigan.
Our historic first ever home league win against Wigan to be precise.
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It's worth poitning out that if we do beat Bolton, which is our game in hand, and we'd be favourites on paper to do so at home, we'd be level with WBA on 36 points, who nobody is talking about in terms of relegation.
They've got the three point difference in the bag, though.
The only sides we've beaten at home this season are Blackburn (at their worst), Norwich (squeaked past) and Fulham (93rd minute goal bundled in).
We're hardly dependable at home.
We've won very few at home. None were totally convincing,not even Blackburn. We couldn't beat a very poor QPR. We now have a severely depleted and inexpereinced squad to choose from. We look like we couldn't beat an egg. Those 3 points look like an abyss at the moment.
To be fair, I thought Blackburn was a pretty convincing win.
It's also fair to say we were excellent for half of the match against QPR, probably the best stuff we've played all season came in the second half of that match.
The problem is we didn't win it, and that's been the problem far too often this season.
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It's worth poitning out that if we do beat Bolton, which is our game in hand, and we'd be favourites on paper to do so at home, we'd be level with WBA on 36 points, who nobody is talking about in terms of relegation.
They've got the three point difference in the bag, though.
The only sides we've beaten at home this season are Blackburn (at their worst), Norwich (squeaked past) and Fulham (93rd minute goal bundled in).
We're hardly dependable at home.
We've won very few at home. None were totally convincing,not even Blackburn. We couldn't beat a very poor QPR. We now have a severely depleted and inexpereinced squad to choose from. We look like we couldn't beat an egg. Those 3 points look like an abyss at the moment.
To be fair, I thought Blackburn was a pretty convincing win.
It's also fair to say we were excellent for half of the match against QPR, probably the best stuff we've played all season came in the second half of that match.
The problem is we didn't win it, and that's been the problem far too often this season.
You can probably point to four or five halves of decent football this season. That's a bit pathetic three quarters of the way into the season.
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It's worth poitning out that if we do beat Bolton, which is our game in hand, and we'd be favourites on paper to do so at home, we'd be level with WBA on 36 points, who nobody is talking about in terms of relegation.
When we played Bolton earlier this season at home, i seem to remember we were comprehensively beaten by their second string.
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It's worth poitning out that if we do beat Bolton, which is our game in hand, and we'd be favourites on paper to do so at home, we'd be level with WBA on 36 points, who nobody is talking about in terms of relegation.
They've got the three point difference in the bag, though.
The only sides we've beaten at home this season are Blackburn (at their worst), Norwich (squeaked past) and Fulham (93rd minute goal bundled in).
We're hardly dependable at home.
We've won very few at home. None were totally convincing,not even Blackburn. We couldn't beat a very poor QPR. We now have a severely depleted and inexpereinced squad to choose from. We look like we couldn't beat an egg. Those 3 points look like an abyss at the moment.
To be fair, I thought Blackburn was a pretty convincing win.
It's also fair to say we were excellent for half of the match against QPR, probably the best stuff we've played all season came in the second half of that match.
The problem is we didn't win it, and that's been the problem far too often this season.
Okay I'll give you Blackburn - but that's not much for three quarters of a season. But we've rarely looked like winning even at home against shite and with a full squad, and even when we did play well, like second half against QPR, we'd already done the damage first half. I wish I could see where we can beg another win from, but I can't, even against a dreadfully out of sorts Liverpool team.
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It's worth poitning out that if we do beat Bolton, which is our game in hand, and we'd be favourites on paper to do so at home, we'd be level with WBA on 36 points, who nobody is talking about in terms of relegation.
When we played Bolton earlier this season at home, i seem to remember we were comprehensively beaten by their second string.
Let's hope their first team is playing then, the one we've already beaten away this season.
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Let's hope their first team is playing then, the one we've already beaten away this season.
And let's hope that our reserves can beat them
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Just said on radio , small heath were 1 point better off them us at the same time last year
They were, in fact they were above us, as we only had 33 points after 30 games, they had 34 points. At that point they were only 2 points above the drop zone whereas we are currently 5points above it.
However if you think that is enough of a safety margin, consider this. Blues had 35 (3 ponts clear) after 31 games and 38 (6 points clear) after 32 games. They then took only 1 point from their last 6 games. Thus McDunce has thrown away a bigger cushion over fewer games to get relegated than the one we have now.
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Just said on radio , small heath were 1 point better off them us at the same time last year
Pretty meaningless as there wasn't any gap at the bottom of the table last year. Between 13th and 20th there was a 3 point difference so half the prem was fighting for survival.
Besides, we were on 33 points after 30 games last year and survived, and more importantly the bottom three clubs had 30, 31 and 32 points each compared with 22, 28, 28 this year.
I accept we are piss poor and can't see us winning many matches with the kids, but the evidence suggests that 36 points should be all it takes to survive this year. Surely we can draw three games?!
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Just said on radio , small heath were 1 point better off them us at the same time last year
Pretty meaningless as there wasn't any gap at the bottom of the table last year. Between 13th and 20th there was a 3 point difference so half the prem was fighting for survival.
Besides, we were on 33 points after 30 games last year and survived, and more importantly the bottom three clubs had 30, 31 and 32 points each compared with 22, 28, 28 this year.
I accept we are piss poor and can't see us winning many matches with the kids, but the evidence suggests that 36 points should be all it takes to survive this year. Surely we can draw three games?!
I think because the teams below us are fighting harder and getting results, we need about 39/40pts to be safe.
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It's worth poitning out that if we do beat Bolton, which is our game in hand, and we'd be favourites on paper to do so at home, we'd be level with WBA on 36 points, who nobody is talking about in terms of relegation.
When we played Bolton earlier this season at home, i seem to remember we were comprehensively beaten by their second string.
Let's hope their first team is playing then, the one we've already beaten away this season.
Ah, i'd forgotten about that Mr Mulholland but my glass is always half empty, keep off the coke!
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Just said on radio , small heath were 1 point better off them us at the same time last year
Pretty meaningless as there wasn't any gap at the bottom of the table last year. Between 13th and 20th there was a 3 point difference so half the prem was fighting for survival.
Besides, we were on 33 points after 30 games last year and survived, and more importantly the bottom three clubs had 30, 31 and 32 points each compared with 22, 28, 28 this year.
I accept we are piss poor and can't see us winning many matches with the kids, but the evidence suggests that 36 points should be all it takes to survive this year. Surely we can draw three games?!
I think because the teams below us are fighting harder and getting results, we need about 39/40pts to be safe.
You could be right. I think Bolton and BBurn will escape and it will be between us, Wigan and QPR - I think those two will struggle to take more than 7 points each though.
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It's worth poitning out that if we do beat Bolton, which is our game in hand, and we'd be favourites on paper to do so at home, we'd be level with WBA on 36 points, who nobody is talking about in terms of relegation.
When we played Bolton earlier this season at home, i seem to remember we were comprehensively beaten by their second string.
Let's hope their first team is playing then, the one we've already beaten away this season.
Ah, i'd forgotten about that Mr Mulholland but my glass is always half empty, keep off the coke!
It's always half empty because you drink too much ;)
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Just said on radio , small heath were 1 point better off them us at the same time last year
Pretty meaningless as there wasn't any gap at the bottom of the table last year. Between 13th and 20th there was a 3 point difference so half the prem was fighting for survival.
Besides, we were on 33 points after 30 games last year and survived, and more importantly the bottom three clubs had 30, 31 and 32 points each compared with 22, 28, 28 this year.
I accept we are piss poor and can't see us winning many matches with the kids, but the evidence suggests that 36 points should be all it takes to survive this year. Surely we can draw three games?!
But MYF see my last post at the foot of page 42. Blues were ony 3 points clear of trouble at this stage but were 6 points clear after 32 games. And McLeish still blew it.
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But MYF see my last post at the foot of page 42. Blues were ony 3 points clear of trouble at this stage but were 6 points clear after 32 games. And McLeish still blew it.
As much as I think the recent criticism towards him has been over the top: based on recent performance, Alex McLeish isn't someone you'd like as your manager if the team is in a relegation battle.
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looking at the remaining fixtures, there is only 2 that i have down as definate deafeats, Man Utd and Liverpool.
i wouldnt write of any of the remaining 6 games after them, looks a pretty good run in to me one which we should easily make the required points to stay up
it makes no difference to me as far as the manager is concerned though, i threw the towel in at Spurs
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looking at the remaining fixtures, there is only 2 that i have down as definate deafeats, Man Utd and Liverpool.
Aren't Liverpool in even worse form than us and lost their last home game to Wigan?
Not saying we should or will win, but I don't think it's worth writing off that game just yet.
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Villa at Anfield. History is certainly not on our side, and nor is our ability to formulate a game plan. 3-4 nil I reckon Dave. We are that bad.
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funny bloke on talk sport
Hutton leaves so much room behind him , you could put a music festival there
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funny bloke on talk sport
Hutton leaves so much room behind him , you could put a music festival there
Yeah heard that, quality quote.
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Villa at Anfield. History is certainly not on our side, and nor is our ability to formulate a game plan. 3-4 nil I reckon Dave. We are that bad.
History wasn't on Chelsea's side on Saturday. It wasn't on our side when we beat Wigan. Means bugger all does history.
What's far more important is that if there is one side that looks even weaker than we do at the moment, particularly playing at home it's Liverpool.
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There will be a couple (hopefully not 3 as that will mean Heskey) strikers are going to be out there to end a goal drought, I hope its our new skipper.
They are there for the taking, if we are up for it and go at them with the right attitude we can win it. Surely now the manager is not needed to motivate a footballer to go there and try and win at Anfield. They should be able to motivate there selves and be hungry to do well for the fans, their own future and to record a famous away win.
2 - 0 Villa from my heart, Gabby 2.
0-0 I reckon though.
I have just realised I'm in the wrong thread. I could have sworn I was in the pre-match thread. Oh well.
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looking at the remaining fixtures, there is only 2 that i have down as definate deafeats, Man Utd and Liverpool.
Aren't Liverpool in even worse form than us and lost their last home game to Wigan?
Not saying we should or will win, but I don't think it's worth writing off that game just yet.
yes you are correct, its me, i just dont think or expect we'l get anything at the weekend from Liverpool so i've written it of in my own mind,
but the rest of the run in appart from MU is as good as we could ask for IMO
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What's far more important is that if there is one side that looks even weaker than we do at the moment, particularly playing at home it's Liverpool.
Yes, but don't teams just love playing the Villa when they're on a bad run of form!!!
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Very true.
Which is why I still expect us to lose.
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If we could choose who we play away it would be Liverpool... although they are probably glad they are playing us. I don't think we can go for a draw. Its failed so many times and we need a couple of wins. Problem is its against all McLeish's instincts. We've been playing for draws so much i think we have forgotten how to win.
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McLeish probably still sees Liverpool as a MegaSuperClub, so that will mean a midfield containing Heskey, some burning tyres and a trench (the trench will have the best game), and we'll spend 90 minutes kicking the ball out of the ground.
He'll then probably write a thank you letter to Dalglish on Monday "Thanks for having us, Sir Kenny, it was an honour".
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At least he won't be wearing his lucky Liverpool pants underneath his suit like our manager the last time we went to Anfield...
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Urgh.
I'd forgotten all about that.
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Also, just as I *knew* Torres would score last Saturday, that rat faced cocksucker Downing is bound to score this Saturday.
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Also, just as I *knew* Torres would score last Saturday, that rat faced cocksucker Downing is bound to score this Saturday.
My money's on Carrol, or maybe go for the double
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McLeish probably still sees Liverpool as a MegaSuperClub, so that will mean a midfield containing Heskey, some burning tyres and a trench (the trench will have the best game), and we'll spend 90 minutes kicking the ball out of the ground.
He'll then probably write a thank you letter to Dalglish on Monday "Thanks for having us, Sir Kenny, it was an honour".
Very good.
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I see nothing but a defeat at Anfield. And obviously nothing at Old Trafford.
We need something against Stoke, even if it's just a draw.
The crucial week will be Sunderland on the Saturday, Bolton on the Tuesday and West Brom on the Saturday. We need 4 or 5 points from those games. We'll be o.k if we get them.
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COPIED AND PASTED FROM MY POST IN ONE OF THE McLEISH THREADS AS IT'S MORE APPROPRIATE HERE:
You can drop down that statto.com table to get the position exactly 1 year ago. At that point, Small Heath were above us, and things were a lot tighter:
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2010-2011/table/2011-04-03
Rationally, we shouldn't go down - for that to happen it would need three of the five teams currently below us to overtake us (and assuming we don't also overtake West Brom).
Wolves would have to make up 11 points AND a 26 goal difference - the equivalent of 4 more wins than us.
QPR, Blackburn and Wigan have to make up 5 points + significantly worse goal differences - the equivalent of 2 more wins than us.
All of the above have only 7 games left.
Bolton have to make up 4 points AND a goal difference of 15. We also play them at Villa Park later this month.
So I'd assume Wolves can't catch us - if we win just once, they have to win 5/7. If we win twice, they have to win 6/7.
QPR's run-in is tough, but no tougher than ours. They have winnable home games against Swansea and Stoke, and have shown they can raise their game. But I'd say it would be hard for them to win 4/7 games. So we'd need to win 2 to stay ahead of them.
Blackburn have an easier run-in - so there's an outside chance that they could win 4/7 - though one match is against Wigan.
Wigan's next 3 are horrendous - Chelsea (a), Man U (h), Arsenal (a) - and I hope that kills them off - but their end of season is a lot easier, but I think it's just about possible with a foul wind behind them they could get 4 wins from Fulham (a), Newcastle (h), Blackburn (a), Wolves (h). Even then, we'd only need 2 wins and a draw.
That leaves Bolton - they have the easiest run-in of the lot - and I suspect they'll overhaul us.
So in summary - I think we need 2 wins and not take a 6 or 7 goal hammering to stay up.
So a 94th minute Heskey winner at Norwich to keep us up on goal difference is my prediction.
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So where are these wins going to come from? we have 6 points from the last 24 and we have another 24 points to play for. All of the teams we face can put 11 better or more commited players on the pitch than us. We need 6 points to be sure 4 or 5 points to be in the mix. Anything less than 4 points and we are down. 1 win or 3 draws isnt enough. I have us down for 3 draws before we face Norwich. It will go down to the wire. I really hope it dosent but I cant see us winning a game.
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The win has to come against Bolton surely? We did comfortably win up there in December when we were at a low point in the season.
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The win has to come against Bolton surely? We did comfortably win up there in December when we were at a low point in the season.
So were they, though. Their form is much improved, whereas ours isn't particularly.
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The win has to come against Bolton surely? We did comfortably win up there in December when we were at a low point in the season.
yep it looks like it will come to that, lose or even draw that game and we are looking at snookers.
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I think/hope the win will come where we least expect it.
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Form can just change. QPR were absolutely dreadful up until 2 weeks ago. They have been the worst team I have seen this season not including Wolves since sacking MM.
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I think/hope the win will come where we least expect it.
we are that desperate we would take any win any where and the more games that pass without that win the more desperate the situation becomes and then anything can happen. We have Mcleish in charge.
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COPIED AND PASTED FROM MY POST IN ONE OF THE McLEISH THREADS AS IT'S MORE APPROPRIATE HERE:
You can drop down that statto.com table to get the position exactly 1 year ago. At that point, Small Heath were above us, and things were a lot tighter:
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2010-2011/table/2011-04-03
Rationally, we shouldn't go down - for that to happen it would need three of the five teams currently below us to overtake us (and assuming we don't also overtake West Brom).
Wolves would have to make up 11 points AND a 26 goal difference - the equivalent of 4 more wins than us.
QPR, Blackburn and Wigan have to make up 5 points + significantly worse goal differences - the equivalent of 2 more wins than us.
All of the above have only 7 games left.
Bolton have to make up 4 points AND a goal difference of 15. We also play them at Villa Park later this month.
So I'd assume Wolves can't catch us - if we win just once, they have to win 5/7. If we win twice, they have to win 6/7.
QPR's run-in is tough, but no tougher than ours. They have winnable home games against Swansea and Stoke, and have shown they can raise their game. But I'd say it would be hard for them to win 4/7 games. So we'd need to win 2 to stay ahead of them.
Blackburn have an easier run-in - so there's an outside chance that they could win 4/7 - though one match is against Wigan.
Wigan's next 3 are horrendous - Chelsea (a), Man U (h), Arsenal (a) - and I hope that kills them off - but their end of season is a lot easier, but I think it's just about possible with a foul wind behind them they could get 4 wins from Fulham (a), Newcastle (h), Blackburn (a), Wolves (h). Even then, we'd only need 2 wins and a draw.
That leaves Bolton - they have the easiest run-in of the lot - and I suspect they'll overhaul us.
So in summary - I think we need 2 wins and not take a 6 or 7 goal hammering to stay up.
So a 94th minute Heskey winner at Norwich to keep us up on goal difference is my prediction.
That post shows how desperate we have become. Randy needs to grow a pair and sack AM or we will be here next year, this manager has form...
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Fergal my worrie is that we wont be here next season.
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Fergal my worrie is that we wont be here next season.
By here you mean the Prem? Randy must know we stand a chance of going down, why do you think the season tickets went on sale so early?
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Fergal my worrie is that we wont be here next season.
This. I actually have a few tears in my eyes tonight. I'm 25, following villa since about '93. This is the most hopeless situation I've gone through as a villa fan.
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Fergal my worrie is that we wont be here next season.
This. I actually have a few tears in my eyes tonight. I'm 25, following villa since about '93. This is the most hopeless situation I've gone through as a villa fan.
Cheer up mate, we will rise again.
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Fergal my worrie is that we wont be here next season.
This. I actually have a few tears in my eyes tonight. I'm 25, following villa since about '93. This is the most hopeless situation I've gone through as a villa fan.
The frustrating thing is how close we came to cracking the top 4. If we had someone who understood that paying Heskey 60K a week was sheer fucking madness we would still be up there...
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With the increasing possibility of relegation comes another spectre - the return to the PL of SHA. There's probably a 50% chance that we may exchange divisions in May. Takes me back to the bad old days of the early 1970s. When will this nightmare end?
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Wigan and Qpr need 2 more wins that us ...well they both did that in the last games whilst we lost and conceded 7 goals ! Those 5 points are nothing when
1) there is 21 to play for
2) we are only just above Wolves in the form table.
With the injuries we have and petrov ill I don't see a side who can stop concedeing goals and one that doesn't have many goals in them .Our best hope to stay up is that we manage at least 1 win and a few drawers but we are relying a lot on the teams below right now.If we go into the last game needing a win I see us going down.
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Takes me back to the bad old days of the early 1970s. When will this nightmare end?
That was no way as bad! - the difference between 1st and 2nd / 2nd and 3rd divisions in financial terms was much smaller; very little TV coverage; no Internet; etc.
The drop now is huge!
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we are relying a lot on the teams below right now.If we go into the last game needing a win I see us going down.
Yep, the momentum is definitely with other clubs and I can see Hughes, Coyle and Kean being able to galvanise their players more efffectively than Our Man.
Squeaky-bum time to the power of 'n'.
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With the increasing possibility of relegation comes another spectre - the return to the PL of SHA. There's probably a 50% chance that we may exchange divisions in May.
How on earth are you getting 50%?
The bookies think there is a one in ten chance of us going down, which is probably about right. They think there is a one in three chance of them coming up.
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With the increasing possibility of relegation comes another spectre - the return to the PL of SHA. There's probably a 50% chance that we may exchange divisions in May. Takes me back to the bad old days of the early 1970s. When will this nightmare end?
Bright future eh.
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With the increasing possibility of relegation comes another spectre - the return to the PL of SHA. There's probably a 50% chance that we may exchange divisions in May.
How on earth are you getting 50%?
The bookies think there is a one in ten chance of us going down, which is probably about right. They think there is a one in three chance of them coming up.
Yes but with all fractions [and maths stuff like that] you have to look for the common denominator.
In the case of Villa and SHA our common denominator is Alex McL.
So last season they had him and went down, we didnt have him and stayed up
This season They dont have him and will more than likely come up, we have him and........
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Irish Villan I started going down reguarly in 87 when we got relegated that was on a par with this season. Following season had time of my life. Villa were hard to beat and had a desire through the team. Great times.. Dont fancy that trip to Charlton again though.
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With the increasing possibility of relegation comes another spectre - the return to the PL of SHA. There's probably a 50% chance that we may exchange divisions in May.
How on earth are you getting 50%?
The bookies think there is a one in ten chance of us going down, which is probably about right.
I think most posters on this forum will agree that those 10 to 1 odds are exceptionally generous. I am now erring towards 2 to 1 or 3 to 1.
But I agree the 50% figure is a bit far-fetched.
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Thanks guys, I guess it will always be our club and I for one will be there, any chance I get, no matter how bad it gets.
Darkness always comes before the dawn. UTV.
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Thinks about it guys, if we stay up we'll have something to celebrate this season.......we don't get to celebrate very often anymore.....
We'd better strap ourselves in for a rollercoaster ride, because this is going to be a close one....the end of the 1994-1995 season springs to mind....hopefully we have the same outcome....
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ts.
Darkness always comes before the dawn.
That line was used on Mad Men last night.
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ts.
Darkness always comes before the dawn.
That line was used on Mad Men last night.
I've never managed to sit down to watch an episode....they obviously have good writers though.
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ts.
Darkness always comes before the dawn.
That line was used on Mad Men last night.
I've never managed to sit down to watch an episode....they obviously have good writers though.
Your getting a bit too close the Wolverhampton motto thing they have!
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Thinks about it guys, if we stay up we'll have something to celebrate this season.......we don't get to celebrate very often anymore.....
We'd better strap ourselves in for a rollercoaster ride, because this is going to be a close one....the end of the 1994-1995 season springs to mind....hopefully we have the same outcome....
Was that when we needed a point away at Norwich to guarantee staying up?
*Gulp*
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With the increasing possibility of relegation comes another spectre - the return to the PL of SHA. There's probably a 50% chance that we may exchange divisions in May.
How on earth are you getting 50%?
The bookies think there is a one in ten chance of us going down, which is probably about right.
I think most posters on this forum will agree that those 10 to 1 odds are exceptionally generous. I am now erring towards 2 to 1 or 3 to 1.
But I agree the 50% figure is a bit far-fetched.
The only time in history bookies give generous odds and they just happen to be now. There's a coincidence.
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Thinks about it guys, if we stay up we'll have something to celebrate this season.......we don't get to celebrate very often anymore.....
We'd better strap ourselves in for a rollercoaster ride, because this is going to be a close one....the end of the 1994-1995 season springs to mind....hopefully we have the same outcome....
Was that when we needed a point away at Norwich to guarantee staying up?
*Gulp*
I have heard that Norwich will be wearing somberos and flip flops for this one so we may get a draw.
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With the increasing possibility of relegation comes another spectre - the return to the PL of SHA. There's probably a 50% chance that we may exchange divisions in May.
How on earth are you getting 50%?
The bookies think there is a one in ten chance of us going down, which is probably about right.
I think most posters on this forum will agree that those 10 to 1 odds are exceptionally generous. I am now erring towards 2 to 1 or 3 to 1.
But I agree the 50% figure is a bit far-fetched.
The only time in history bookies give generous odds and they just happen to be now. There's a coincidence.
False sense of security Dave. I wonder what the odds were for Newcastle a couple of years back. I have had a tenner, at least I get something out of it if he does sink us.
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I've never placed a bet in my life but I'm placing a bet on us going down. Im that confident
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The lowest I can see is 9/1. The highest 119/10.
Interesting looking at the trends, though.
Looking at bet365's price history for us going down you see this:
March 18th: 100/1
March 20th: 66/1
March 24th: 40/1
March 25th: 25/1
March 27th: 14/1
March 30th: 16/1
April 2: 21/1
Now: 11/1
That price is basically just reflecting their risk at the moment, so it's ultimately about where the money they take on this market is going.
It's a pretty grim indicator of where the momentum is.
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I wonder what price you'd have go on Blues going down when they were five points clear of trouble last season?
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5 points really isnt alot when you consider there is 21 to play for and Wigan and QPR have managed 6 points from the last 2 games !
Though funnily enough given the current run's of form the draw's at Wigan and Blackburn don't look too shabby now ...
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I've never placed a bet in my life but I'm placing a bet on us going down. Im that confident
What an interesting choice of words.
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The only time in history bookies give generous odds and they just happen to be now. There's a coincidence.
False sense of security Dave. I wonder what the odds were for Newcastle a couple of years back. I have had a tenner, at least I get something out of it if he does sink us.
I put a tenner on us last week at 18-1. Sadly it was the day Petrov's illness was announced - the day before we were 25-1. Even worse, I had been planning to put it on for a while and had I done it before the Arsenal game I could've got 40-1!
So given the way things are going, I'm fairly sure that one week delay is going to cost me £220!!!
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I don't normally have an issue with betting against us if I think there's profit to be had, but I dunno .... betting on us to get relegated, it just seems a bit too much in some ways.
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I've never placed a bet in my life but I'm placing a bet on us going down. Im that confident
What an interesting choice of words.
Interesting yes but poorly chosen as well.
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I don't normally have an issue with betting against us if I think there's profit to be had, but I dunno .... betting on us to get relegated, it just seems a bit too much in some ways.
I don't bet but if I did I am not sure I could bet on us going down, that seems just wrong.
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I don't normally have an issue with betting against us if I think there's profit to be had, but I dunno .... betting on us to get relegated, it just seems a bit too much in some ways.
I did it last year aswell.
I see it two ways - one, I'm terrible at betting. I very rarely win. By betting on us to go down it's my little bit towards keeping us up. Two, it's an insurance policy - in the same way you pay to insure your house against it burning down (something you don't want to happen) I insure against the Villa being relegated. If it's going to happen at least the cost of my season ticket next year won't be so bad once the winnings have been offset against it.
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Same for me Ad@m, I rarely win a bet so it's like a good omen if I put one on us going down. I did it last year shortly after we contrived snatch defeat from the jaws of victory at Bolton, as I couldn't see where a win was coming from. Of course we ended up beating Arsenal and Liverpool to finish an unlikely 9th. The other justification is that should the excrement and air conditioning collide, I will have sufficient beer money to blot it from my consiousness for quite a while. I meant to ask a mate to put 20 quid on for me a few weeks ago, shame I delayed really.
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Form can just change. QPR were absolutely dreadful up until 2 weeks ago. They have been the worst team I have seen this season not including Wolves since sacking MM.
I'd take that as a sign that the decent manager they recently appointed is starting to get his ideas across. And for other teams maybe the managers are capable of galvanising their players for the fight from time to time. Martinez managed it at the end of last season, as did McCarthy. Mcleish did the opposite. The crucial factor might be that we have the latter, a manager who has form for being unable to turn things around and whose response after some abject performances is to say "what can I do?". Which is why I have a strong feeling we are buggered.
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I don't like betting against the Villa but these days I feel I have to, as a sort of comfort factor.
At the start of the season I had a tenner at 20/1 on us to go down and on Friday i had another tenner at 18/1. Like the poster previously I was going to have a bet when we were 25/1.
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I bet on us beating Notts County 3-0 and with 5 mins to go Cyrille Regis (I think) had a one on one in front of the Holte with the score already at 4-0. I was desperate he'd miss and decided not to bet on Villa again.
(PS. He muffed it).
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I bet on us beating Notts County 3-0 and with 5 mins to go Cyrille Regis (I think) had a one on one in front of the Holte with the score already at 4-0. I was desperate he'd miss and decided not to bet on Villa again.
(PS. He muffed it).
Hadn't your money gone when the 4th went in?
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I've never placed a bet in my life but I'm placing a bet on us going down. Im that confident
What an interesting choice of words.
Terrible choice of words from me,early morning and all that. I think I'm beyond frustration
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I've put a tenner on us to go down. I figure that way, I can ease the pain slightly with a wedge of cash in my Spacely Sprocket.
Actually I think the odds on us going down at the minute are well worth a punt. Our form and general play is hopeless. All the teams below us bar Wolves are beginning to show real fight and are pulling off some results. It's gonna take 40 points to be safe I reckon and we'll struggle to get there.
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I bet on us beating Notts County 3-0 and with 5 mins to go Cyrille Regis (I think) had a one on one in front of the Holte with the score already at 4-0. I was desperate he'd miss and decided not to bet on Villa again.
(PS. He muffed it).
Hadn't your money gone when the 4th went in?
It had, but russon's a bit like McLeish. As long as he doesn't lose by much he's happy.
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Instead of betting us to go down, I'm having 2 quid on the likes of QPR, Blackburn and Wigan to win their games. Already made a tidy profit on QPR beating Liverpool and Arsenal recently and looking at some of the teams they have to play in their run ins, you'll get decent odds.
QPR at Old Trafford this weekend are 10-1 for example to win, 5-1 for a draw. Pretty similar for Wigan at Chelsea.
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Any money you win by betting against the Villa is dirty, rotten, cursed and forever tainted.
Should you ever profit from such an evil act, I'd consider donating the ill-gotten gains to a worthwhile charity.
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Any money you win by betting against the Villa is dirty, rotten, cursed and forever tainted.
Should you ever profit from such an evil act, I'd consider donating the ill-gotten gains to a worthwhile charity.
AVFC transfer fund!
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I'll have it.
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Just did the BBC predictor. I had it pretty damn damn close. Basically, I thought that just one win, assuming we draw 2-3 more, would do it.
The problem is I can only see that win coming against Bolton.
I had us losing v Liverpool, man u, Sunderland and norwich. And drawing v Stoke and spurs at home and WBA away.
That had us staying up on 39 points, one ahead of QPR.
What a thoroughly shit season. Quite a bit worse than last year I reckon. At least then we played some passing football and scored a few goals. This year I reckon 75% of the games have been highly tedious.
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It is a shit season.
Posting on threads about can we stay up or are we going down. how bloody depressing .
The thing is , most of us at the beginning of the season could see this happening , that is why , we did not want him .
but the board thought they knew better .
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listning to Mcleish on talksport today he is going to turn this into a fight against relegation which he knows he has a good chance of winning, so do i.
at the season close he will turn round and say 'i kept us up' and act the big hero, Villa fans are playing into his hands by banging on about going down, its very unlikely and it will not make it a good season if we do stay up
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Just did the BBC predictor. I had it pretty damn damn close. Basically, I thought that just one win, assuming we draw 2-3 more, would do it.
The problem is I can only see that win coming against Bolton.
I had us losing v Liverpool, man u, Sunderland and norwich. And drawing v Stoke and spurs at home and WBA away.
That had us staying up on 39 points, one ahead of QPR.
What a thoroughly shit season. Quite a bit worse than last year I reckon. At least then we played some passing football and scored a few goals. This year I reckon 75% of the games have been highly tedious.
I just did that as well. Had Wolves, Wigan and Blackburn down, us 17th by one point, five points behind QPR and Bolton way up in 10th. Shows what I know.
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Any money you win by betting against the Villa is dirty, rotten, cursed and forever tainted.
Should you ever profit from such an evil act, I'd consider donating the ill-gotten gains to a worthwhile charity.
If I do win (if you can call it that) the bet, I will donate it to Stan's charity of choice.
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'i kept us up' and act the big hero, Villa fans are playing into his hands by banging on about going down
Have to agree with this.
He'll give it the big 'un about how he saved us against all odds. Fans hatred, injuries, balancing the wages etc, etc.
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I wouldn't be too sure about Villa fans letting him off the hook if we do stay up. I think only some unlikely transfer activity would stave off the shit coming his way. McLeish is as canny in his media presence as he is tactically. He has nowhere to hide and no grace to fall back on.
I expect ticket, commercial sales and the general mood and confidence around the club to be appalling in the summer if McLeish is not replaced. This will hit Villa hard financially and would have to be addressed. They have to act.
No matter how this season pans out from here, this season has been unacceptable.
How many fans could tolerate another season of this? If the club really have no connection to or understanding of the fans they will allow this situation to continue. Unfortunately, I have very little faith in the board to do what is required and I'm an optimist. Where is the leadership? The direction? The knowledge? How could they have appointed this man against all reason?
How can they listen to or read his dour defeatist and oft delusional musings and not realise the effect its having on the club? And what the fuck did they expect in the first place?
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I expect ticket, commercial sales and the general mood and confidence around the club to be appalling in the summer if McLeish is not replaced. This will hit Villa hard financially and would have to be addressed.
A lot has been said about calamitous season ticket sales and that the club must act to prevent this, but let’s say for argument sake for lose 7000 season ticket holders going into next season, that’s a drop in revenue of approx £3,1M. If we sell one of our £60K p/w earners and don’t replace him, we save approx £3,1M and thus negate the cost of lost season tickets.
The same Noddy maths can be applied to ‘at the gate’ sales. Let’s say that we drop approx 5,000 per match on individual tickets sold. Over the season that would pan out to approx £5M lost revenue. If we sell one of our £70K p/w week earners, we save approx £3,6M and thus take a loss of only £1,4M...... As you can imagine, you only have to get a couple more big earners off the books and not replace them and we’ve broken even.
Now I know that this is pretty basic stuff, but it does go to highlight, that IF the only focus of the club is to reduce cost, then they can more than afford a calamitous drop in supporters turning up at the stadium whilst still ticking over.
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what was it on Saturday . 34k against Chelski plus with people going to support petrov etc . That is pretty poor , the fans are starting to protest by not going .
I had a horrible thought late last night . Villa down , Small Heath up . FFS !!!!! please no
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I expect ticket, commercial sales and the general mood and confidence around the club to be appalling in the summer if McLeish is not replaced. This will hit Villa hard financially and would have to be addressed.
A lot has been said about calamitous season ticket sales and that the club must act to prevent this, but let’s say for argument sake for lose 7000 season ticket holders going into next season, that’s a drop in revenue of approx £3,1M. If we sell one of our £60K p/w earners and don’t replace him, we save approx £3,1M and thus negate the cost of lost season tickets.
The same Noddy maths can be applied to ‘at the gate’ sales. Let’s say that we drop approx 5,000 per match on individual tickets sold. Over the season that would pan out to approx £5M lost revenue. If we sell one of our £70K p/w week earners, we save approx £3,6M and thus take a loss of only £1,4M...... As you can imagine, you only have to get a couple more big earners off the books and not replace them and we’ve broken even.
Now I know that this is pretty basic stuff, but it does go to highlight, that IF the only focus of the club is to reduce cost, then they can more than afford a calamitous drop in supporters turning up at the stadium whilst still ticking over.
Neil, that overlooks the fact that there's a huge deficit in he accounts that needs to be turned round, and cutting costs is only one half of the equation. There's no point in cutting them if income drops off as well. We undoubtedly needed to cut costs, but we need income to rise as well.
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I expect ticket, commercial sales and the general mood and confidence around the club to be appalling in the summer if McLeish is not replaced. This will hit Villa hard financially and would have to be addressed.
A lot has been said about calamitous season ticket sales and that the club must act to prevent this, but let’s say for argument sake for lose 7000 season ticket holders going into next season, that’s a drop in revenue of approx £3,1M. If we sell one of our £60K p/w earners and don’t replace him, we save approx £3,1M and thus negate the cost of lost season tickets.
The same Noddy maths can be applied to ‘at the gate’ sales. Let’s say that we drop approx 5,000 per match on individual tickets sold. Over the season that would pan out to approx £5M lost revenue. If we sell one of our £70K p/w week earners, we save approx £3,6M and thus take a loss of only £1,4M...... As you can imagine, you only have to get a couple more big earners off the books and not replace them and we’ve broken even.
Now I know that this is pretty basic stuff, but it does go to highlight, that IF the only focus of the club is to reduce cost, then they can more than afford a calamitous drop in supporters turning up at the stadium whilst still ticking over.
Neil, that overlooks the fact that there's a huge deficit in he accounts that needs to be turned round, and cutting costs is only one half of the equation. There's no point in cutting them if income drops off as well. We undoubtedly needed to cut costs, but we need income to rise as well.
I appreciate that my very basic calculations hardly explain the complex nature of our accounts, but it does demonstrate that a large drop in season ticket sales could be absorbed if enough high earners are shifted off the books. In fact if we culled enough of them and sold Bent we would go a long way to offsetting the mess we are in......... I’m in no way agreeing, it’s just being purely subjective.
On the other hand, if we sacked McLeish it would cost us significantly in compensation with little prospect that our income would further be enhanced.
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Dont worry, it will get us plenty of attention in the national media.
Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan going down is not that earth shattering outside of those towns. Obviously the London hacks will be concerned about one of their 3 fashionable west london teams, but what they can really get their teeth into in terms of `fallen giant` or `once proud` or `at one time ruled Europe` is us.
Also expect lots of mentions, particularly on the likes of SKY, about us being one of only 7 teams continuously in the Premier League since proper football started.
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I expect ticket, commercial sales and the general mood and confidence around the club to be appalling in the summer if McLeish is not replaced. This will hit Villa hard financially and would have to be addressed.
A lot has been said about calamitous season ticket sales and that the club must act to prevent this, but let’s say for argument sake for lose 7000 season ticket holders going into next season, that’s a drop in revenue of approx £3,1M. If we sell one of our £60K p/w earners and don’t replace him, we save approx £3,1M and thus negate the cost of lost season tickets.
The same Noddy maths can be applied to ‘at the gate’ sales. Let’s say that we drop approx 5,000 per match on individual tickets sold. Over the season that would pan out to approx £5M lost revenue. If we sell one of our £70K p/w week earners, we save approx £3,6M and thus take a loss of only £1,4M...... As you can imagine, you only have to get a couple more big earners off the books and not replace them and we’ve broken even.
Now I know that this is pretty basic stuff, but it does go to highlight, that IF the only focus of the club is to reduce cost, then they can more than afford a calamitous drop in supporters turning up at the stadium whilst still ticking over.
Neil, that overlooks the fact that there's a huge deficit in he accounts that needs to be turned round, and cutting costs is only one half of the equation. There's no point in cutting them if income drops off as well. We undoubtedly needed to cut costs, but we need income to rise as well.
I appreciate that my very basic calculations hardly explain the complex nature of our accounts, but it does demonstrate that a large drop in season ticket sales could be absorbed if enough high earners are shifted off the books. In fact if we culled enough of them and sold Bent we would go a long way to offsetting the mess we are in......... I’m in no way agreeing, it’s just being purely subjective.
On the other hand, if we sacked McLeish it would cost us significantly in compensation with little prospect that our income would further be enhanced.
Another consideration is the extent to which Lerner wants out. If the playing staff is overly-stripped of "star quality" and the gate / merchandise revenue is compromised by the supporter-disllusion, the value of any potential sale is surely dented.
I think there's a real balancing act that RL needs to find here.
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one advantage that other teams have is that their fans have not given up hope as many posting on here have. You can bet your life, Wigan, Bolton, QPR fans are ready to get behind their team in the run-in. It's not a criticism, just a fact that surely this must work as an advantage.
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'i kept us up' and act the big hero, Villa fans are playing into his hands by banging on about going down
Have to agree with this.
He'll give it the big 'un about how he saved us against all odds. Fans hatred, injuries, balancing the wages etc, etc.
I'm sorry guys but that's a crock of sh1te.
You could count on one hand the number of people in football who think the Villa should be relegated given the other teams in this division. A 'par' result for our squad is midtable mediocrity. Against that, AML has massively underachived. Relegation would be akin to gross incompetence.
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'i kept us up' and act the big hero, Villa fans are playing into his hands by banging on about going down
Have to agree with this.
He'll give it the big 'un about how he saved us against all odds. Fans hatred, injuries, balancing the wages etc, etc.
I'm sorry guys but that's a crock of sh1te.
You could count on one hand the number of people in football who think the Villa should be relegated given the other teams in this division. A 'par' result for our squad is midtable mediocrity. Against that, AML has massively underachived. Relegation would be akin to gross incompetence.
Aren't all three of you effectively saying the same thing?
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If he does keep us up it will be with a whimper, so I doubt he'll be proclaiming it as a success.
However, he will get until Christmas minimum I reckon.
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We could do with one of the other teams down there to have a poor run ,right now QPR ,Bolton and Wigan are all on good runs.I haven' t looked too deeply but I don't think any of them 3 and Blackburn are struggling with the injuries we are.Bolton I think are a little short in midfield but thats all.
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'i kept us up' and act the big hero, Villa fans are playing into his hands by banging on about going down
Have to agree with this.
He'll give it the big 'un about how he saved us against all odds. Fans hatred, injuries, balancing the wages etc, etc.
I'm sorry guys but that's a crock of sh1te.
You could count on one hand the number of people in football who think the Villa should be relegated given the other teams in this division. A 'par' result for our squad is midtable mediocrity. Against that, AML has massively underachived. Relegation would be akin to gross incompetence.
Aren't all three of you effectively saying the same thing?
Yes.
I'm not excusing McBuffoon, just agreeing with john e about what tosh he'd come out with when we've made safety, I wouldn't agree with it at all.
Our performance has been totally unacceptable.
Yes he's had injuries, just like any other Premier team.
Yes the fans are not happy with him, but he's got off amazingly lightly during games, it's not as if he's been persecuted.
Yes he's having to keep an eye on wages, but he was still allowed to sign a player he's always coveted (N'Zogbia), A top class keeper and a right back that he obviously loves (but who is piss poor).
The only one small concession I'll give him is that Blandy should have given him funds to buy a quality midfielder, having said that, he made little or no effort to intergrate Makoun.
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I do not want to see Villa relegated. The pain would be unbearable. In addition my age makes it more than likely I shall never see them back in the top half dozen teams in the land.
However, I am coming closer and closer to the opinion that it will take relegation to have a sufficiently drastic effect on the governance of the club to cure us of the sickness which grips us.
What is happening to us is what is happening to top level football in the country generally but writ large. We have ceased to be a football club and have become a product.
As football moves further and further away from its cultural and geographic roots and seeks to become part of the entertainment industry, more and more clubs are being run along contemporary business lines which dictate that they have to be "marketed".
That is the canker which has eaten away at our club. We have a naive owner who has never really understood the way we feel about our clubs in this country. He has appointed directors who have no feel for or understanding of the fact that football does not obey the conventions of business. Why else would so many of us have paid Doug Ellis £11 each for shares in Villa which were not worth a fifth of that sum? Neither do the directors have any football nous. The owner does not believe that they need any. They are in place to run a business.
They and the owner have squandered twelve millions pounds in pursuit of a replacement for O'Neill but neither they, nor the current man of their choice is held to account for their monumental blundering.
As I said in another thread, because the directors and the owner absorb their knowledge of what is happening to Villa via the media the comment in yesterday's Daily Mirror that the fans (implying all the fans all the time) have been on McLeish's back since he arrived, that media lie and all the others like it will carry much more weight in the Villa boardroom than anything we say or do.
The manager is what he is, a man of unimpressive record completely out of his depth in the premiership. He stays in place because the media says we the fans hate him for where he came from and because the owner was personally involved in appointing him.
If the club is to be re-born, it has to be utterly purged of the concept that it is a product to be sold and that the loyal fans are nothing more than a crop to be harvested. Such has to be the depth of the purge that we have to get back to the basics of taking into consideration whether a player like Emile Heskey should be signed when he has always been a figure of contempt and ridicule by the fans. In the new dawn which may or may not break through the Astonian Gloom (epic couplet) if say, Craig Gardner was available in the summer whoever is in charge has to consider if that player's provocative and hostile comments about Aston Villa make him a suitable player to wear the shirt. To ignore such implications is to perpetuate the concept that the fans will turn up however they are treated. To respect the fact that the bedrock fans have expectations of behaviour and loyalty from players paid such obscene sums of money is where the rebuilding must begin.
I think we may just scrape out of the bottom three this season but that in itself will only make matters worse if the sickness which ails our club is carried into next season. I see Sid and KMac being in charge by Christmas, nearly two years too late.
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^^^ *Hands over the head clappy thingy*.
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Another cracking piece from Brian.
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'i kept us up' and act the big hero, Villa fans are playing into his hands by banging on about going down
Have to agree with this.
He'll give it the big 'un about how he saved us against all odds. Fans hatred, injuries, balancing the wages etc, etc.
I'm sorry guys but that's a crock of sh1te.
You could count on one hand the number of people in football who think the Villa should be relegated given the other teams in this division. A 'par' result for our squad is midtable mediocrity. Against that, AML has massively underachived. Relegation would be akin to gross incompetence.
Aren't all three of you effectively saying the same thing?
f he tries to claim any credit whatsoever for keeping us up by the skin of our teeth, especially if we don't even make 40 points, then he'd be an embarrassment to himself and should be laughed out of town.
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Good, thought-provoking piece again Brian. Unfortunately football has ceased to be a sport with a bit of business behind it and is now a major business with a bit of sport involved. If you want to compete at the top end, the only options seem to be Sheikh or Brand. Or both.
RL and co have a few get-outs in what you say. Many fans will stll turn up regardless of how they are treated, because of their loyalty to the club.
They can stick with McLeish because they can alway invoke the "you only hate him because he came from Blues" fallacy.
Even if we go down they have the get-out that McLeish has "proven experience" of getting teams promoted. Unlike his "proven Premier League Experience" this time it would have the advantage of actually being successful experience. So I think we may be stuck with him, whatever happens, unless there is a fan uprising.
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Excellent piece Brian, I suspect we are of roughly the same vintage and I am increasingly subscribing to the view that I would rather see us relegated, our awful awful manager got rid of and the kids given a chance to impress next season with a few judicious signings than wallow on in the Premier League vying to finish somewhere between 10th and 15th with a bunch of players I just can't identify with nor care one jot about for the most part. When I first started watching us properly in 1974, we were in the second division and there was a real cult feeling to following the Villa. I felt it again when we were in the second division in the late 80s - some of my best memories of attending matches come from both eras, particularly away games - and I suspect it needs to happen again to have any hope of my feelings for the Villa being fully re-invigorated. At the moment, so much of it is just so meaningless. As Brian points out, the same could sadly be said of about 90% of football these days. The game has almost completely lost its soul and has to grab at increasingly fleeting moments such as what has happened to players like Muamba and Petrov to try and show it does still really care
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Excellent piece Brian, I suspect we are of roughly the same vintage and I am increasingly subscribing to the view that I would rather see us relegated, our awful awful manager got rid of and the kids given a chance to impress next season with a few judicious signings than wallow on in the Premier League vying to finish somewhere between 10th and 15th with a bunch of players I just can't identify with nor care one jot about for the most part. When I first started watching us properly in 1974, we were in the second division and there was a real cult feeling to following the Villa. I felt it again when we were in the second division in the late 80s - some of my best memories of attending matches come from both eras, particularly away games - and I suspect it needs to happen again to have any hope of my feelings for the Villa being fully re-invigorated. At the moment, so much of it is just so meaningless. As Brian points out, the same could sadly be said of about 90% of football these days. The game has almost completely lost its soul and has to grab at increasingly fleeting moments such as what has happened to players like Muamba and Petrov to try and show it does still really care
I also suspect that getting relegated, after the initial shock and fall out, would have a really unifying effect on us all which can only be for the good, albeit that we need to have got rid of the twat managing our beloved club
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Relegation would be a disaster that would take us a generation to recover from. The idea of it is vomit inducing.
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I can see both sides of the relegation argument, but I think in the end it would be a disaster for us to go down. Under the current leadership we'd end up like Forest or Sheff Wed rather than say Newcastle. We need to stay up and then the board need to wake up and come up with a proper plan, realise how lucky we were to survive and how close we came. They need to sack Mcleish, and get in a manager who can unite the club and fans.
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Relegation would be a disaster that would take us a generation to recover from. The idea of it is vomit inducing.
I agree in many ways but so, quite frankly, is the thought of wallowing around in about 14th place in the Premier League in front of 28,000 fans and a half-empty ground, that twat as our manager and watching journeymen pros such as Warnock and Collins being paid thousands when they can barely kick a ball straight over a distance of about 20 yards. An equally vomit inducing thought as far as I am concerned...
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Thank you for your kind comments.
The worst thing about relegation I dreamed last night. I woke up screaming at my wardrobe.
If we are relegated, within minutes of the final whistle of whichever game seals our fate a microphone will be thrust in front of O'Neill and his words will be "I get no satisfaction from the relegation of Aston Villa....."
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Relegation would be a disaster that would take us a generation to recover from. The idea of it is vomit inducing.
This, 100 times over.
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It's better to be shit in the top flight than to be a total non-entity in the forgotten swamps of the football league.
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If we are relegated, within minutes of the final whistle of whichever game seals our fate a microphone will be thrust in front of O'Neill and his words will be "I get no satisfaction from the relegation of Aston Villa....."
That's possibly the most sobering comment about relegation I've read so far. I get a knot in my stomach just thinking about that scenario.
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If we were to get relegated, the last thought on my my mind would be what Martin O'Neil would have to say, i really could'nt give a shit.
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I do not want to see Villa relegated. The pain would be unbearable. In addition my age makes it more than likely I shall never see them back in the top half dozen teams in the land.
However, I am coming closer and closer to the opinion that it will take relegation to have a sufficiently drastic effect on the governance of the club to cure us of the sickness which grips us.
What is happening to us is what is happening to top level football in the country generally but writ large. We have ceased to be a football club and have become a product.
As football moves further and further away from its cultural and geographic roots and seeks to become part of the entertainment industry, more and more clubs are being run along contemporary business lines which dictate that they have to be "marketed".
That is the canker which has eaten away at our club. We have a naive owner who has never really understood the way we feel about our clubs in this country. He has appointed directors who have no feel for or understanding of the fact that football does not obey the conventions of business. Why else would so many of us have paid Doug Ellis £11 each for shares in Villa which were not worth a fifth of that sum? Neither do the directors have any football nous. The owner does not believe that they need any. They are in place to run a business.
They and the owner have squandered twelve millions pounds in pursuit of a replacement for O'Neill but neither they, nor the current man of their choice is held to account for their monumental blundering.
As I said in another thread, because the directors and the owner absorb their knowledge of what is happening to Villa via the media the comment in yesterday's Daily Mirror that the fans (implying all the fans all the time) have been on McLeish's back since he arrived, that media lie and all the others like it will carry much more weight in the Villa boardroom than anything we say or do.
The manager is what he is, a man of unimpressive record completely out of his depth in the premiership. He stays in place because the media says we the fans hate him for where he came from and because the owner was personally involved in appointing him.
If the club is to be re-born, it has to be utterly purged of the concept that it is a product to be sold and that the loyal fans are nothing more than a crop to be harvested. Such has to be the depth of the purge that we have to get back to the basics of taking into consideration whether a player like Emile Heskey should be signed when he has always been a figure of contempt and ridicule by the fans. In the new dawn which may or may not break through the Astonian Gloom (epic couplet) if say, Craig Gardner was available in the summer whoever is in charge has to consider if that player's provocative and hostile comments about Aston Villa make him a suitable player to wear the shirt. To ignore such implications is to perpetuate the concept that the fans will turn up however they are treated. To respect the fact that the bedrock fans have expectations of behaviour and loyalty from players paid such obscene sums of money is where the rebuilding must begin.
I think we may just scrape out of the bottom three this season but that in itself will only make matters worse if the sickness which ails our club is carried into next season. I see Sid and KMac being in charge by Christmas, nearly two years too late.
spot on Brian. The board never had a plan, just spend till we ended up in a mess.
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I know what you mean Paul but I'd guess the Newcastle fans thought the same about Ashton, that they would sink like a stone under his stewardship.
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Excellent Brian.
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Difference is Ashton has worked for his money.All Randy has done is lose it big.
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Football has always been a business. Ellis took loads out of the club without putting a great deal back in. Randy has put some of his own money in but has also set up loan accounts so he gets his cash back. I doubt many people on here thought about the business side of things when MON was forking out shitloads for a pile of old crap. Unfortunately, due to Randy's poor handling of affairs in the early days of hs tenure, the business element of football has become polarised.
That said, Randy might actually start making some money against by sacking McLeish as I think this will galvanise the fans and re-ignite the interest that has been lost.
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Brian, as much as I agree with a lot of that, I have to take you up on giving the fans too much say. If for example you signed players always taking into consideration the opinion of fans, then the question needs to be asked "which fans?". How do you get an adequate sample size to assume you have captured the pulse. Take your Craig Gardner as an example. Now I think he's a decent squad player who might add 5-8 goals a season. There are others who think like me. Then there are those that don't rate him at all. Then there are those who think he is a 'nose wanker. Who's opinion is correct? How can the board/manager ever know if the player they are after will receive universal approval. If we know anything, there is no way to ever know that. The theory of fan inclusion in ultimately what is a business decision to, one would hope, better the team/squad can only have marginal fan input otherwise we'd never sign anyone.
I think as fans we have been forgotten, which is exactly the opposite of what they set out to do. Our questions are genuine, the answers are canned and deliberate. I've forgotten what it is like to listen to my manager knowing he has a fire in his belly that transmits itself to the players. Saturday comes and I'm walking around with a permanent shrug that as much as I hate us losing, they've made not really give a shit anymore. Because the give that impression too. I don't want to support a team that every season sets it's stall out to be ok. To float and bob along as big ships and sometimes little ones pass by and we just get a gob full of spray in their wake. That's how it feels right now. I want to hear my manager say "we're going out to win every game" as opposed to "we can't compete with xxxxx" or "we'll give it our best shot" Fuck off with comments like that. Lie to me even. Just don't make me not want you any more.
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It's better to be shit in the top flight than to be a total non-entity in the forgotten swamps of the football league.
Anyone who was Villa in the seventies would have to disagree with this. That said, the ever present tag is something to be proud of if we can hold on to it for long enough...
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That said, Randy might actually start making some money against by sacking McLeish as I think this will galvanise the fans and re-ignite the interest that has been lost.
Agree with that. If he brought in a young manager who spoke of a long term development project rather than relegation avoidance, nurturing talent rather than chucking them in to cover a small squad and targeting cheaper younger players from across the continent a la Arsenal rather than dross like Hutton, it would give everybody a lift.
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I do not want to see Villa relegated. The pain would be unbearable. In addition my age makes it more than likely I shall never see them back in the top half dozen teams in the land.
However, I am coming closer and closer to the opinion that it will take relegation to have a sufficiently drastic effect on the governance of the club to cure us of the sickness which grips us.
What is happening to us is what is happening to top level football in the country generally but writ large. We have ceased to be a football club and have become a product.
As football moves further and further away from its cultural and geographic roots and seeks to become part of the entertainment industry, more and more clubs are being run along contemporary business lines which dictate that they have to be "marketed".
That is the canker which has eaten away at our club. We have a naive owner who has never really understood the way we feel about our clubs in this country. He has appointed directors who have no feel for or understanding of the fact that football does not obey the conventions of business. Why else would so many of us have paid Doug Ellis £11 each for shares in Villa which were not worth a fifth of that sum? Neither do the directors have any football nous. The owner does not believe that they need any. They are in place to run a business.
They and the owner have squandered twelve millions pounds in pursuit of a replacement for O'Neill but neither they, nor the current man of their choice is held to account for their monumental blundering.
As I said in another thread, because the directors and the owner absorb their knowledge of what is happening to Villa via the media the comment in yesterday's Daily Mirror that the fans (implying all the fans all the time) have been on McLeish's back since he arrived, that media lie and all the others like it will carry much more weight in the Villa boardroom than anything we say or do.
The manager is what he is, a man of unimpressive record completely out of his depth in the premiership. He stays in place because the media says we the fans hate him for where he came from and because the owner was personally involved in appointing him.
If the club is to be re-born, it has to be utterly purged of the concept that it is a product to be sold and that the loyal fans are nothing more than a crop to be harvested. Such has to be the depth of the purge that we have to get back to the basics of taking into consideration whether a player like Emile Heskey should be signed when he has always been a figure of contempt and ridicule by the fans. In the new dawn which may or may not break through the Astonian Gloom (epic couplet) if say, Craig Gardner was available in the summer whoever is in charge has to consider if that player's provocative and hostile comments about Aston Villa make him a suitable player to wear the shirt. To ignore such implications is to perpetuate the concept that the fans will turn up however they are treated. To respect the fact that the bedrock fans have expectations of behaviour and loyalty from players paid such obscene sums of money is where the rebuilding must begin.
I think we may just scrape out of the bottom three this season but that in itself will only make matters worse if the sickness which ails our club is carried into next season. I see Sid and KMac being in charge by Christmas, nearly two years too late.
spot on Brian. The board never had a plan, just spend till we ended up in a mess.
With respect, I don't see how this argument stacks up at all. It's not marketing that's made us shit. It's paying more than we could afford on average players with I resale value and a series of bad managerial appointments. We're not the first or last team this has happened to and it's over the top to portray this as symptomatic of a wider malaise in football.
There is a wider malaise in football in the way you describe, but noone was quite so upset on here when we were fighting for fourth by spending above our means bankrolled by a rich foreign owner.
Villa have in many ways been served well by the premier league era. We've been consistently pretty average yet never out of the top flight. I reckon that's the most consistent era of 'success' for the best part of a century.
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The 2000s are the first decade since the 1940s that Aston Villa have not won a major trophy. I'm not so sure the PL era has been that good to us. Also, we finished second twice between 1990-1993 and haven't been within an ass's roar of the title since.
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a win today and this thread will be redundant 8)
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a win today and this thread will be redundant 8)
A lot of people thought that after the Fulham game when we went 11 points clear.
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The 2000s are the first decade since the 1940s that Aston Villa have not won a major trophy. I'm not so sure the PL era has been that good to us. Also, we finished second twice between 1990-1993 and haven't been within an ass's roar of the title since.
The defining moment for the Villa was the expansion of the Champions League in 1997. At that time Brian Little was on the downward slope with the Villa and having finished 4th and 5th the previous two seasons, with a League Cup trophy thrown in, he couldn't repeat that. The year before Arsenal put Wenger in charge and finished 1st or 2nd in every one of pretty much the next 10 seasons. That meant they got the Champions League money and we never qualified. Then Chelski came on the scene in the early 2000's whilst we put DOL in charge.
The Premier League has neither particularly benefited us or put us at a disadvantage but the expansion of the Champions League and the fact we missed the boat left us in a situation where even Randy throwing the best part of a quarter of a billion pound at the club still meant we couldn't make up the gap.
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canker
great word
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The point I was trying to make, and to which I hold, is that our board regard their primary function as generating business and they have clearly been chosen and briefed that that is their function. That they have no savvy, no feel, no depth of understanding for football or they way football fans think and feel is evident in everything they do.
Compare our decline with the rise of Swansea, where from board level down they have adopted a football rather than an accountancy ethos.
Get the football right and the finances will look after themselves is a simple truism lost on the Villa board. I base that claim on the very high probability that the present manager was given a brief which prioritized premiership survival and cutting the wages bill. The results of that approach stare you in the face every time you look at the league table. Those who think we, the Villa faithful have been well served in the last two seasons have seen things I have not.
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Get the football right and the finances will look after themselves is a simple truism lost on the Villa board.
Wasn't that MON's mantra? Look where that got us.
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The 2000s are the first decade since the 1940s that Aston Villa have not won a major trophy. I'm not so sure the PL era has been that good to us. Also, we finished second twice between 1990-1993 and haven't been within an ass's roar of the title since.
The defining moment for the Villa was the expansion of the Champions League in 1997. At that time Brian Little was on the downward slope with the Villa and having finished 4th and 5th the previous two seasons, with a League Cup trophy thrown in, he couldn't repeat that. The year before Arsenal put Wenger in charge and finished 1st or 2nd in every one of pretty much the next 10 seasons. That meant they got the Champions League money and we never qualified. Then Chelski came on the scene in the early 2000's whilst we put DOL in charge.
The Premier League has neither particularly benefited us or put us at a disadvantage but the expansion of the Champions League and the fact we missed the boat left us in a situation where even Randy throwing the best part of a quarter of a billion pound at the club still meant we couldn't make up the gap.
Adam, I think you're right about the Chumps League - the Premiership created a benefical £££ world for those in it and its benefits were reasonably equally spread amongst the participants; at least initially. The Chumps League advantaged the three-four participating clubs, to the detriment of those not in it; it was that which started the inequality within the Premiership, exacerbated thereafter by the arrival of Abramovich, the Arabs, et al.
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a win today and this thread will be redundant 8)
A lot of people thought that after the Fulham game when we went 11 points clear.
thank f**k for that late winner. I think minus two points now that we have and we would be down .
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We will be o.k now.
A battling point at Anfield dosen't usually translate into losing the rest of the seasons games.
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We will be o.k now.
A battling point at Anfield dosen't usually translate into losing the rest of the seasons games.
A win at Stamford Bridge doesn't usually translate into a home defeat against Swansea either.
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We will be o.k now.
A battling point at Anfield dosen't usually translate into losing the rest of the seasons games.
A win at Stamford Bridge doesn't usually translate into a home defeat against Swansea either.
It was the same last season when we battled for a draw at Chelsea, then three days later pulled our pants down and got shafted at home by Sunderland.
We just need to take it one game at a time.
I have to say, if I had to pick any club rather than the MegaClubs (trademark our manager) to face on Monday, Stoke would be right at the bottom of the list. I hate playing them. It almost always makes me deeply unhappy.
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Me too Paulie, and today was a great result in spite of all circumstances, but will mean nothing if we limply lose at home to Stoke on Monday. Win, and we are a point from being safe. It is a massive game.
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Until we are mathematically safe they are all big games.
I don't care how we do it I just need us to be safe from the drop.
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A win vs Stoke should just about do us. In fact a win against anyone should do...just be nice if it came sooner rather than later. If we could go and ruin Man Yoo's title hopes whilst we are at it that would be great.
Wolves are a goner
Wigan have Man Yoo and Arsenal nest.
Bolton have Newcastle
Need to make the most of the stoke game before trotting off to Man Yoo and surrendering...
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A win vs Stoke should just about do us. In fact a win against anyone should do...just be nice if it came sooner rather than later. If we could go and ruin Man Yoo's title hopes whilst we are at it that would be great.
Wolves are a goner
Wigan have Man Yoo and Arsenal nest.
Bolton have Newcastle
Need to make the most of the stoke game before trotting off to Man Yoo and surrendering...
QPR have had it too as they've still got to play Man U, Chelsea, Man City and Spurs, the first three away. Logic tells me we're safe but logically the Blues should've been safe last season.
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I can see a turn round in form for Villa now. With us playing an expansive, attacking style of football over the last few games. Convincing the board they have the right man in charge.
Only for mcleish to go out and sign Michael Brown, Bentner and Carlton Cole. Sending us down next season.
That would just sum up being a Villa fan at the moment.
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Frank Black, you forgot to mention Joey Barton!! How very dare you sir!
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One win will do it. Let's hope it's tomorrow.
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It was great that three of the bottom teams lost yesterday, it really helped us out but that's not going to happen every week, we'll need to pick up 3 points somewhere along the line. Tomorrow would be ideal because i can't see us getting anything at Old Trafford (although i thought the same about Yesterday).
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We should manage enough to stay up. Its possible we'll stay up with less points than the 39 small heath went down with last season.
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I've got QPR for the drop along with Wolves and Bolton.
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I've got QPR for the drop along with Wolves and Bolton.
What odds Hughes jumping ship it QPR go down. I bet he has a clause in his contract that allows him to walk out. His ego, and that of his reptilian agent couldn't take being associated with Championship football
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A win in against Stoke or Bolton at home and we should be ok. The result against Liverpool should give the team a lift and all the other results went our way for a change.
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I did the Bbc predictor but without us winning again this season. We stay up by 2 points. Bolton finish on 43 pts....I'll have a lie down....
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If we could go and ruin Man Yoo's title hopes whilst we are at it that would be great.
You would prefer Citeh to win the title?
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If we could go and ruin Man Yoo's title hopes whilst we are at it that would be great.
You would prefer Citeh to win the title?
Yes 100 %
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If we could go and ruin Man Yoo's title hopes whilst we are at it that would be great.
You would prefer Citeh to win the title?
Yes 100 %
Yes, count me in too. Fuck Man Utd.
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Fuck both of 'em but another United title makes little difference, I want to postpone City as much as possible from usurping our record as being one of the top five/six historically.
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Fuck both of 'em but another United title makes little difference, I want to postpone City as much as possible from usurping our record as being one of the top five/six historically.
Which is how I see it. I also want Barcelona to beat Chelsea in the European Cup for similar reasons.
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I want them all to lose because they are all a shower of tossers. As for which one of City or United win the league it's shades of shite.
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I want them all to lose because they are all a shower of tossers. As for which one of City or United win the league it's shades of shite.
Whoever wins, it won't in all be a good season for the EPL's standing in Planet Football.
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Fuck both of 'em but another United title makes little difference, I want to postpone City as much as possible from usurping our record as being one of the top five/six historically.
Which is how I see it. I also want Barcelona to beat Chelsea in the European Cup for similar reasons.
Exactly.
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Time to get this thread resurrected, dear oh dear.
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As I said on the other games thread. We may deserve to go down, due to how dreadful we are. However I don't want us to go down and I can't cheer on wins for the clubs below us, because they are dragging us down. Everyone with the exception of Wolves seems to have a bit of fight except for us. Our manager truly is terrible.
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Oh fuck!!
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Time to get this thread resurrected, dear oh dear.
That 7 point gap is now 4.
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We are in deep shit now!
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Time to get this thread resurrected, dear oh dear.
That 7 point gap is now 4.
No it isn't. It is 6 with a far superior goal difference. No chance of us going down, 4 of the 5 teams below us only have 5 games to play, some of which are against each other!
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The fact that the other teams are fighting for points,and were like the blues this time last year,is starting to scare the shit out of me.
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Time to get this thread resurrected, dear oh dear.
That 7 point gap is now 4.
Is it? I didn't realise 4 clubs are getting relegated this year.
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Time to get this thread resurrected, dear oh dear.
That 7 point gap is now 4.
No it's still 6. Bolton are only on 29.
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We are in deep shit now!
So deep that every club below us would swap places and the bookies have all of them at odds on or close to it, while we're at least 10/1.
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100% sure we will not get relegated this season.
Next season, if AM is still here, then 100% we will go down.
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16/1 on bet365 if you are that certain we are down.
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We are in deep shit now!
So deep that every club below us would swap places and the bookies have all of them at odds on or close to it, while we're at least 10/1.
I don't doubt that, but other than Wolves there isn't one who would swap their current form for ours.
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We are in deep shit now!
So deep that every club below us would swap places and the bookies have all of them at odds on or close to it, while we're at least 10/1.
I don't doubt that, but other than Wolves there isn't one who would swap their current form for ours.
So what? We're in a better position than them all.
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Thou flighty lilly-livered shit-a-beds.
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We are in deep shit now!
So deep that every club below us would swap places and the bookies have all of them at odds on or close to it, while we're at least 10/1.
I don't doubt that, but other than Wolves there isn't one who would swap their current form for ours.
Apart from Blackburn of course.
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No investment plus McLeish next year and I think we will be very likely to go down. The fact we're going to be close this term is embarrassing.
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I'm not saying we will definitely go down, not at all. However unless we try to win games, rather than make a desperate effort to get a point we probably will go down.
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Time to get this thread resurrected, dear oh dear.
That 7 point gap is now 4.
No it isn't. It is 6 with a far superior goal difference. No chance of us going down, 4 of the 5 teams below us only have 5 games to play, some of which are against each other!
Its 6 to Bolton who have a game in hand against us, we stil need points.
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No investment plus McLeish next year and I think we will be very likely to go down. The fact we're going to be close this term is embarrassing.
Its also embarrassing that we bought Wigan's best player off them last summer and we're now barely above them.
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Their game is against Spurs and they have to come to Villa Park.
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Sky don't even have us in their relegation table- but I sadly have a vague memory of cursing this time last year when Blues disappeared from the sky relegation table.
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Time to get this thread resurrected, dear oh dear.
That 7 point gap is now 4.
No it isn't. It is 6 with a far superior goal difference. No chance of us going down, 4 of the 5 teams below us only have 5 games to play, some of which are against each other!
Its 6 to Bolton who have a game in hand against us, we stil need points.
How can they have a game in hand against us? If it's against us then it can't be in hand. Stop exaggerating again.
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No investment plus McLeish next year and I think we will be very likely to go down. The fact we're going to be close this term is embarrassing.
If that happens over the summer, I am going to have a decent sum of money on us to go down.
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We are in deep shit now!
So deep that every club below us would swap places and the bookies have all of them at odds on or close to it, while we're at least 10/1.
I don't doubt that, but other than Wolves there isn't one who would swap their current form for ours.
So what? We're in a better position than them all.
Yes, we are, but look at the way the momentum is moving.
It seems like a couple of days since we were 11 points clear of the relegation zone.
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Well I think we have to beat Bolton. If we win we are safe - like when we beat That Lot in 2006 at a similar point in the season. If we lose we are deep in the mire and have a manager with a track record in recent times whose teams in the top league seem to die of death in the last month of the season.
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We are in deep shit now!
So deep that every club below us would swap places and the bookies have all of them at odds on or close to it, while we're at least 10/1.
I don't doubt that, but other than Wolves there isn't one who would swap their current form for ours.
So what? We're in a better position than them all.
Yes, we are, but look at the way the momentum is moving.
It seems like a couple of days since we were 11 points clear of the relegation zone.
Now it's as good as seven. Five games left.
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Their game is against Spurs and they have to come to Villa Park.
er check the league table, the spurs game that was postponed was in the cup ::)
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I would agree. If we beat Bolton, then we'll be safe. Worst case scenario is that the win would extend the lead to six points, which with three or for games to go, would be too much.
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A good set of fixtures since last week. This time last week we had eight games left and where 5 points ahead. Now after a weekend when many thought we'd get 1 point at best we've increased our lead by 1 with only 6 games to go.
We'd have to lose all 6 to go down.....in which case we'd deserve to. What is annoying is that we'll probably still be 6 points ahead by the time we play man u on Sunday making it a pressure free nothing to lose game, so you'd think we'd go for it. We'll see
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Sky don't even have us in their relegation table- but I sadly have a vague memory of cursing this time last year when Blues disappeared from the sky relegation table.
The similarity to THEIR position last season is frightening!
Can McDonut do the treble?
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Their game is against Spurs and they have to come to Villa Park.
er check the league table, the spurs game that was postponed was in the cup ::)
Roll your eyes elsewhere. You said they have a game in hand. Presumably you meant the one against Spurs as you surely didn't mean their game in hand over us was against er, us.
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Their game is against Spurs and they have to come to Villa Park.
er check the league table, the spurs game that was postponed was in the cup ::)
Bolton v Spurs is Weds 2nd May
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This casual 'we'll be ok' attitude baffles me. The fact is we cannot buy a win at present, nor do we look like doing so. Those below us are winning seemingly unwinnable games and if this pattern continues until the end of the season we are going down.
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The casual lack of concern about relegation is very similar to the apathy around the club at the moment. I'm not judging anyone at all, maybe I am panicking unnecessarily. However we can keep saying 'we're safe', another two poor results and we could be outside the bottom 3 on goal difference.
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We are smack bang in the battle. Bolton have hopefully run out of steam and results will go against them for a couple of weeks. Blackburn are really unpredictable.
The worst of it is that we are certain to go and have about 2 shots in 90 minutes and about 25% possession on Sat. It is inevitable.
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I'm giving it a rest on here for a few weeks. This thread is ridiculous. Get a grip folks.
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A good set of fixtures since last week. This time last week we had eight games left and where 5 points ahead. Now after a weekend when many thought we'd get 1 point at best we've increased our lead by 1 with only 6 games to go.
We'd have to lose all 6 to go down.....in which case we'd deserve to. What is annoying is that we'll probably still be 6 points ahead by the time we play man u on Sunday making it a pressure free nothing to lose game, so you'd think we'd go for it. We'll see
Pretty much spot on. But Villa playing pressure free, go for it football?
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After we play sunday Bolton will have a game in hand over us which is at home to Spurs on Wednesday the 2nd of May so its after our home game against them, Bolton at home is just massive.
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(http://www.buypersonalisedgift.co.uk/shop/images/Feel%20Panic%20Flag.jpg)
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The worst of it is that we are certain to go and have about 2 shots in 90 minutes and about 25% possession on Sat. It is inevitable.
I predict 0% possession and 0 shots on goal on Sat ;)
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Wigan have Arsenal away this weekend which is good although the way Wigan are playing, anything could happen there. QPR are away at Tesco and the way the stripey filth are playing at home, it would'nt surprise me if QPR won. Swansea's form has also dipped of late so Blackburn might get something there.
It's another weekend where unless we get an unexpected result at Old Traffford, we're relying on other teams again. Whatever happens at the end of the season though, McLeish needs to be shown the door.
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I have not been here on this thread before. Shit this is top job slit wrist take cynide tablet jump off the cliff stuff going on here.
Not clicking on this again ever!
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Their game is against Spurs and they have to come to Villa Park.
er check the league table, the spurs game that was postponed was in the cup ::)
Roll your eyes elsewhere. You said they have a game in hand. Presumably you meant the one against Spurs as you surely didn't mean their game in hand over us was against er, us.
I will do this really slowly, Bolton have played 1 less game than every one else except us, so they have a game in hand on every one else except us, so thier game in hand is against us not over us :-[
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Just one point to the positive spinners (and I think we will survive by a point or two albeit with less than 40) we have been crap. Turgid football. This is the worst quality Premiership season (IMHO) for many many a year. Now it could continue to decline next year though if we keep McDuff and the standard stays the same or improves not sure that we will survive next season.
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My casual prediction of the results to happen between now and the end of the season sees most of the teams below us on 35/36 points, except Wolves and QPR. Therefore if we fail to build on what we have to date then that's that!
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Looking at the fixtures we cant even get in the bottom 3 for weeks even if everyone wins all their games so sleep easy for tonight at least !
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after 32 games we have won 7 games = 22 % of games drew 14 = 44 % lost 11 games = 34%
so approx pro rata we should get 12 points hmmm :o
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after 32 games we have won 7 games = 22 % of games drew 14 = 44 % lost 11 games = 34%
so approx pro rata we should get 12 points hmmm :o
It would be interesting to know in how many of those drawn games have we been ahead/behind. If we had just won three and lost two in 5 of the 14 draws we would be 4 points better off and be smoking cigars whilst wearing slippers sitting on the beach in our deckchairs!!
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Their game is against Spurs and they have to come to Villa Park.
er check the league table, the spurs game that was postponed was in the cup ::)
Roll your eyes elsewhere. You said they have a game in hand. Presumably you meant the one against Spurs as you surely didn't mean their game in hand over us was against er, us.
I will do this really slowly, Bolton have played 1 less game than every one else except us, so they have a game in hand on every one else except us, so thier game in hand is against us not over us :-[
I think the original reply confused a game in hand against us as a game in hand over us.
You are currently correct. But as the Spurs match this weekend against Bolton is called off, by the time we play them, they will also have a game in hand over us.
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after 32 games we have won 7 games = 22 % of games drew 14 = 44 % lost 11 games = 34%
so approx pro rata we should get 12 points hmmm :o
It would be interesting to know in how many of those drawn games have we been ahead/behind. If we had just won three and lost two in 5 of the 14 draws we would be 4 points better off and be smoking cigars whilst wearing slippers sitting on the beach in our deckchairs!!
Off the top of my head I can tell you we were beating Newcastle, Blackburn, Liverpool, Stoke...
The lost game that really annoys me though was against the Stripeys. Dodgy ref plus negative tactics.
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after 32 games we have won 7 games = 22 % of games drew 14 = 44 % lost 11 games = 34%
so approx pro rata we should get 12 points hmmm :o
It would be interesting to know in how many of those drawn games have we been ahead/behind. If we had just won three and lost two in 5 of the 14 draws we would be 4 points better off and be smoking cigars whilst wearing slippers sitting on the beach in our deckchairs!!
I think when he managed That Lot they got less than 10 points from their last 11 games. Some narrow losses and draws and the odd win. Ring a bell?
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Off the top of my head I can tell you we were beating Newcastle, Blackburn, Liverpool, Stoke...
QPR, Sunderland, Everton...
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Off the top of my head I can tell you we were beating Newcastle, Blackburn, Liverpool, Stoke...
QPR, Sunderland, Everton...
And how many of those that didn't wind up in three points were down to his usual, depressing "sit back and try to defend it" routine.
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Had a go at bbc predictor - 2 draws and we survive on GD. blacburn and wigan down. that's with blackburn unbeaten and wigan only losing to them.
its getting too worrying now though
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Off the top of my head I can tell you we were beating Newcastle, Blackburn, Liverpool, Stoke...
QPR, Sunderland, Everton...
If those are all of the scoring draws, that means we dropped 14 points from them. Utter wank.
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After 33 games last season Blues were 5 points clear of the bottom 3 on 38 points, they took 1 more point and went down on 39 points so I think some of us on here have every right to feel a little bit worried.
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Off the top of my head I can tell you we were beating Newcastle, Blackburn, Liverpool, Stoke...
QPR, Sunderland, Everton...
If those are all of the scoring draws, that means we dropped 14 points from them. Utter wank.
Although you could argue that we gained 11 points from losing positions in the Norwich, Chelsea, Wolves and QPR games.
So I'd say we were more average in that area than particularly profligate.
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we have got to just have a go on sunday nothing to lose
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Blues and last season has no relevance to now. They went down on 39 and no one below us is going to get even close to that so can we stop this 'Blues had 1 more point after 33 games' crap?
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Off the top of my head I can tell you we were beating Newcastle, Blackburn, Liverpool, Stoke...
QPR, Sunderland, Everton...
If those are all of the scoring draws, that means we dropped 14 points from them. Utter wank.
Although you could argue that we gained 11 points from losing positions in the Norwich, Chelsea, Wolves and QPR games.
So I'd say we were more average in that area than particularly profligate.
Credit where credit's due, I hadn't considered those games. But I'm still annoyed.
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we have got to just have a go on sunday nothing to lose
Other than a big goal difference advantage? ;o)
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I'd be a lot happier if the orange dot was re-introduced any day now...
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I'd be a lot happier if the orange dot was re-introduced any day now...
It made an appearance for the Stoke game.
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Having had a mooch on the other teams' forums then Rovers and Bolton seem more negative than some of the people on here so they think they're done for.
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Get the fucker back on then - until we're safe!
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we have got to just have a go on sunday nothing to lose
But we won't.
We'll line up, probably with Heskey as the midfield dynamo, with the sole intention of keeping the score down to single figures.
I agree with Gabby - I just want this season to be over!
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I'd be a lot happier if the orange dot was re-introduced any day now...
It made an appearance for the Stoke game.
Oh, I thought that was AM's head.
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Off the top of my head I can tell you we were beating Newcastle, Blackburn, Liverpool, Stoke...
QPR, Sunderland, Everton...
If those are all of the scoring draws, that means we dropped 14 points from them. Utter wank.
Although you could argue that we gained 11 points from losing positions in the Norwich, Chelsea, Wolves and QPR games.
So I'd say we were more average in that area than particularly profligate.
We took the lead first in 13 games and conceded first in 14 games. We have won 7 and lost 11. So if you take the fact we beat three of those 4 you mentioned, we have only won 4 matches we have scored first in this season.
Hmm almost like we sit back and defend and invite the pressure on us when we score first.
Edit: 10 points surely Dave in your post?
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we have got to just have a go on sunday nothing to lose
But we won't.
We'll line up, probably with Heskey as the midfield dynamo, with the sole intention of keeping the score down to single figures.
I agree with Gabby - I just want this season to be over!
We could have done with Heskey in midfield on Monday, long before the 85 minute mark.
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Off the top of my head I can tell you we were beating Newcastle, Blackburn, Liverpool, Stoke...
QPR, Sunderland, Everton...
If those are all of the scoring draws, that means we dropped 14 points from them. Utter wank.
Considering we have had five 0-0 draws this season that means that we have been ahead in 7 out of 9 scoring draws so that does suggest a very cautious approach when leading in those games. See its stats and analysis like this that the board should be considering at the end of the season when deciding whether to continue with Alex next season.
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Get the fucker back on then - until we're safe!
Check the stickied threads.
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Off the top of my head I can tell you we were beating Newcastle, Blackburn, Liverpool, Stoke...
QPR, Sunderland, Everton...
If those are all of the scoring draws, that means we dropped 14 points from them. Utter wank.
Considering we have had five 0-0 draws this season that means that we have been ahead in 7 out of 9 scoring draws so that does suggest a very cautious approach when leading in those games. See its stats and analysis like this that the board should be considering at the end of the season when deciding whether to continue with Alex next season.
'Cautious' is not the word I would use. 'Incompetent', yes.
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Well I thought I would do the Predictor thing on the BBC website. Somehow I managed us going down with 38 points and Swansea dropping on 39. Hmmm, interesting. I never win at the bookies so I'm not too worried about my prediction though.
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Blues and last season has no relevance to now. They went down on 39 and no one below us is going to get even close to that so can we stop this 'Blues had 1 more point after 33 games' crap?
Stop talking so sensibly.
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I shed a few tears tonight when I saw those results. I only found out what happened on MOTD. I am shell shocked.
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I shed a few tears tonight when I saw those results. I only found out what happened on MOTD. I am shell shocked.
Are you for real?
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I shed a few tears tonight when I saw those results. I only found out what happened on MOTD. I am shell shocked.
You're not the kind of bloke I'd want to send to Afghanistan.
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Blues and last season has no relevance to now. They went down on 39 and no one below us is going to get even close to that so can we stop this 'Blues had 1 more point after 33 games' crap?
Stop talking so sensibly.
In terms of relegation it has no real value, but by performance of the manager surely it shows what a completely inept job he is attempting.
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I shed a few tears tonight when I saw those results. I only found out what happened on MOTD. I am shell shocked.
Are you for real?
I was just casually flicking around when I saw Wigan score on MOTD, flicked on the laptop and saw the table! I am dosed up on flu medication so I am a bit sensitive.... But yes, there were a few tears there in the eyes.
We are perilously close.
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I shed a few tears tonight when I saw those results. I only found out what happened on MOTD. I am shell shocked.
Are you for real?
I was just casually flicking around when I saw Wigan score on MOTD, flicked on the laptop and saw the table! I am dosed up on flu medication so I am a bit sensitive.... But yes, there were a few tears there in the eyes.
We are perilously close.
God help you if anything serious ever happens.
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I've heard it all now.
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Win the Bolton game and we're laughing. Either way I'm certain we'll stay up.
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The Bolton game is now critical.
A relegation 6-pointer against Bolton ffs - just how far have we fallen?
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Apologies to one and all. I am an impulsive sort who wears his heart on his sleave. I've never seen villa get relegated and tonight it just dawned on me how likely it is.
Dave, I do actually have a sense of perspective. I'd willingly send villa to the Conference rather than have lost some of the people that I have in the past decade, or go through some of the dark days that I have come through the other end of.
I still think I'm allowed be a bit upset to be confronted with a Premier League without Aston Villa though.
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Reckon we're safe but 3 points will do it for sure IMO. Two games ago i wasn't confident of getting any points but we've shown a bit more spirit than i expected post Petrov. bolton and sunderlnd are the biggies. If we're within 3 points of one of the bottom three after those games then we're in deep doo-doo
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My feeling is that we'll lose against Man Ure, Sunderland and Spurs; draw against West Brom and Norwich and either win or draw against Bolton. This should give us 38 or 40 points; either should be enough to stay up. If we lose against Bolton, I'll start to worry.
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Apologies to one and all. I am an impulsive sort who wears his heart on his sleave. I've never seen villa get relegated and tonight it just dawned on me how likely it is.
Dave, I do actually have a sense of perspective. I'd willingly send villa to the Conference rather than have lost some of the people that I have in the past decade, or go through some of the dark days that I have come through the other end of.
I still think I'm allowed be a bit upset to be confronted with a Premier League without Aston Villa though.
It's not very likely at all and please try to get a sense of perspective. It's only football.
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Reckon we're safe but 3 points will do it for sure IMO. Two games ago i wasn't confident of getting any points but we've shown a bit more spirit than i expected post Petrov. bolton and sunderlnd are the biggies. If we're within 3 points of one of the bottom three after those games then we're in deep doo-doo
Then we can all have a blokey cry-fest with Irish Villian.
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is it me?, or is it a sign that the 2 words at the top of the page, near the page nos., are "GO DOWN" and stand out more now than before Xmas?
fateful insight by the site design team..? :-[
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Or of look down you see 'GO UP'. Depends on your state of mind.
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Apologies to one and all. I am an impulsive sort who wears his heart on his sleave. I've never seen villa get relegated and tonight it just dawned on me how likely it is.
Dave, I do actually have a sense of perspective. I'd willingly send villa to the Conference rather than have lost some of the people that I have in the past decade, or go through some of the dark days that I have come through the other end of.
I still think I'm allowed be a bit upset to be confronted with a Premier League without Aston Villa though.
It's not very likely at all and please try to get a sense of perspective. It's only football.
So does that mean we shouldn't cheer if we won a cup or a score a goal, because after all, it is only football and we should be saving our cheers and happiness for meaningful events.
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Or of look down you see 'GO UP'. Depends on your state of mind.
Villa Fan 2011/12 season = very negative outlook on life and actually believe Windows OS is flawless compared to the current side residing @ B6!!
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Apologies to one and all. I am an impulsive sort who wears his heart on his sleave. I've never seen villa get relegated and tonight it just dawned on me how likely it is.
Dave, I do actually have a sense of perspective. I'd willingly send villa to the Conference rather than have lost some of the people that I have in the past decade, or go through some of the dark days that I have come through the other end of.
I still think I'm allowed be a bit upset to be confronted with a Premier League without Aston Villa though.
It's not very likely at all and please try to get a sense of perspective. It's only football.
So does that mean we shouldn't cheer if we won a cup or a score a goal, because after all, it is only football and we should be saving our cheers and happiness for meaningful events.
We should stop treating it like a national disaster. That goes for all football, not just us.
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Reckon we're safe but 3 points will do it for sure IMO. Two games ago i wasn't confident of getting any points but we've shown a bit more spirit than i expected post Petrov. bolton and sunderlnd are the biggies. If we're within 3 points of one of the bottom three after those games then we're in deep doo-doo
Then we can all have a blokey cry-fest with Irish Villian.
Just being realistic i think. if one of the bottom three can overtake us with a win after the bolton game, then i'm not confident we'll get anything from the remaining games. I don't think that will pan out though.
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Apologies to one and all. I am an impulsive sort who wears his heart on his sleave. I've never seen villa get relegated and tonight it just dawned on me how likely it is.
Dave, I do actually have a sense of perspective. I'd willingly send villa to the Conference rather than have lost some of the people that I have in the past decade, or go through some of the dark days that I have come through the other end of.
I still think I'm allowed be a bit upset to be confronted with a Premier League without Aston Villa though.
It's not very likely at all and please try to get a sense of perspective. It's only football.
You're right, and I'm starting to think about why I stick with it when it brings me nothing but disappointment.
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'Man up' gotcha Dave!
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I think we will get a point at Norwich, but if that will be enough is up in the air. Spurs last but one game, on their current form, could provide our easiest win. I will be cheering them on all the way at the way on Saturday for sure. They won't be steaming into tackles with the cup final a game away.
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It's not very likely at all and please try to get a sense of perspective. It's only football.
So does that mean we shouldn't cheer if we won a cup or a score a goal, because after all, it is only football and we should be saving our cheers and happiness for meaningful events.
We should stop treating it like a national disaster. That goes for all football, not just us.
But they hasn't said it was a national disaster, they said they shed some tears at the thought of Villa being relegated. Probably won't be alone in this aspect in all of football. If people didn't have feelings for their football club then it wouldn't exist. Why does DCF and PK spend thousands of pounds and hours following Villa around the country and the world if they don't have feelings for it? I'm not saying he will be bawling if we went down, but I would be surprised if there was not some emotions at all.
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I shed a few tears tonight when I saw those results. I only found out what happened on MOTD. I am shell shocked.
I burst out laughing at that.
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I shed a few tears tonight when I saw those results. I only found out what happened on MOTD. I am shell shocked.
I burst out laughing at that.
You're not alone!
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QPR have won more games than us . ffs . McLeish OUT
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Bolton have won two more . ffs . McLeish OUT!!
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7 wins in 32 games . ffs . McLeish OUT!!!!!!
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Juan Pablo, I'm not quite clear if you want McLeish sacked or not. Can you please be clear what you think. ;)
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Shit, I've got to be up for work in 7 hours. McLeish OUT!!!!!!
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im thirsty, McLeesh OUT!!1!
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I think we will get a point at Norwich, but if that will be enough is up in the air. Spurs last but one game, on their current form, could provide our easiest win. I will be cheering them on all the way at the way on Saturday for sure. They won't be steaming into tackles with the cup final a game away.
Dunno. Spurs - probably need a win to get in the CL.
Baggies- local derby, nothing they'd like better than put us in the shit.
Norwich - nothing to play for, but last home game, excellant season, party atmosphere - don't fancy that.
The long shot is actually needing the points with 3 games to go, but if a)the teams below us do VERY good and b) we do VERY bad in the next three games then i will officially have The Fear.
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Right now i'm still only mildly worried.
I do dread us needing a result at Norwich, apart from a League Cup win in the 80s i'm struggling to think of a win there. We lost in the FAC down there that season as well IIRC.
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Indeed. I went to both (night) games. Couple of hundred Villa for the FA Cup, thousands in the League Cup.
Best rendition of 'Bells are Ringing' ever, and the infamous Villa arse-slasher claimed another victim at the second game I think. He'll be at Norwich this year for sure, hope it's an omen.
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If we get relegated, surely that must be some kind of world-record achievement for McLeish?
Relegated two clubs in the same city in consecutive seasons.
Has it ever been done before.
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Assuming we lose at Man U and if we dont beat Sunderland then Bolton at home could become pivotal.
Beat Bolton we are safe, lose to them and the wheels are truly off and we are right down in the shit.
A draw may just save our skins. So expect fear of losing and a negative approach. Over to you Mr McLeish.
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We're a nightmare to predict though, people talking about these winnable home games need to have a look at the winnable home games we haven't won this season. I'm worried. I don't think we'll go down, but it'll be tight. FFS.
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I shed a few tears tonight when I saw those results. I only found out what happened on MOTD. I am shell shocked.
*Administers manly hug and blokey punch on the shoulder*
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If he did relegate us I think he'd have to leave the country for his own safety
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Spurs relegated The Blues on the last day of the season, let's hope McArsewipe doesn't perform the same trick with us.
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If he did relegate us I think he'd have to leave the country for his own safety
He needn't worry he will be paraded through the streets of Bordeseley Green as a godlike figure.
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I wasn't expecting QPR to get another point all season and as for Wigan winning at Man Utd, we're now in for a hell of a hammering on Sunday.
However, I still don't see Villa going down. Too many things would have to fall into place for that to happen
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I wasn't expecting QPR to get another point all season and as for Wigan winning at Man Utd, we're now in for a hell of a hammering on Sunday.
However, I still don't see Villa going down. Too many things would have to fall into place for that to happen
But they could!
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I wasn't expecting QPR to get another point all season and as for Wigan winning at Man Utd, we're now in for a hell of a hammering on Sunday.
However, I still don't see Villa going down. Too many things would have to fall into place for that to happen
Too many things? Like us not winning any games for example. Every time we begin to look safe, we get dragged back in as the teams below us all seem capable of getting results, which we don't. The Bolton game could be huge at this rate.
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Absolutely. The old cliche of it being a six pointer. Get the result and it gives us breathing space again. Lose and we're dragged right back into it again.
6 points between us and the drop zone is just not acceptable. It's shocking!
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It is unlikely that we will be relegated, there are a number of teams in worse trouble than us at the moment, a glance at the table confirms that.
However, I think there's a higher chance of it happening that a lot of people do. I certainly don't think we are anything like safe.
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If he did relegate us I think he'd have to leave the country for his own safety
Lead on McDuff. Hes so untalented he should be on Britains Got Talent....first act!
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Let's not get overly excited here.
The gap to the relegation stands at 6 points, where it was 5 before the Easter round of games. So we're actually safer now than this time last week.
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If Wigan get something at the Emirates on Monday night, then it really will be time to worry! They then face Fulham away and Newcasle home after that. But they have a belief and aren't scared to have a go - unlike boring Mr Negative. What dismayed me the most was his ''we've got to be realistic'' quote from the recent Arsenal away game giving the players zero confidence to try and win the game. If we'd played Man Utd last night there's no way we would've beat them as we have to be ''realistic''
I still think it'll go to the Norwich game on the final day - the worryingh thing is Wigan face Wolves at home that same day!
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I'm surprised at the confidence of some people about us not being in much danger. On current form Wigan and QPR are way ahead of us, and momentum is very important at this time of the season. Wigan have taken 9 points out of thelast 4 games and it could have been 12 but they were cheated at Chelsea on both goals. They have 11 points from the last 6 games and look as if they are capable of beating anyone at the moment. QPR have won three and lost three of their last 6. They were also possibly robbed of points by appalling officials at Man Yoo. Again you can see them beating anyone. I honestly don't feel confident of us beating anyone. Our only recent win was rather fortunate. Without those two extra points we'd be right in the do-do. Our best bet is that Bolton fail to win many, but they have relatively easy games compared to us.
But the biggest reason I think the confidence may be misplaced is that we have the man who managed only 1 point from the final 6 games last year to throw away a 6 point cushion. The man who knows how to set sides up to avoid defeat, but not to win. And we need a win. And the man who has proved he is very very good at getting teams relegated form the PL.
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Bolton are the worry. Same games left as us. Have to beat west brom and swansea at home to have a realistic chance, could get something at stoke and then there's us. Two wins and 2 draws 37 points.......
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However, I still don't see Villa going down. Too many things would have to fall into place for that to happen
To quote a great man "nothing can go wrong now".
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Seven points above Blackburn, six above Bolton. We have to play Bolton. Our team is not able to defend from set pieces or crosses, we are crippled with injuries, and we are playing Mark Halsey and Man United in Old Trafford this wkend . Anyone that thinks we are okay will be dragged into reality shortly I think.
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However, I still don't see Villa going down. Too many things would have to fall into place for that to happen
See BCFC 2011/12
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Problem is that will we pick any more points up this season? There is a chance for 0 points, though we prob get a draw or 2.
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The main problem is i can see Wigan, Blackburn, QPR scoring the goals they need to win games and potentially pass us, even if they have tough games still to play. Bolton i'm less sure about.
I'm not confident we will get anything out of the Sunderland, Bolton, West Brom games, we are a poor side who in most other seasons would be destined for the drop.
Think we will get away with it this year but if we have to go into the Spurs and Norwich games needing points, heaven help us. I have visions of us at Norwich, sunny day, them signing off a successful season but with nothing to play for but pride, totally relaxed, us tense and mis-managed, in the bottom 3 with Oh Eck telling us to keep it in the corner...shudder.
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Perhaps he can learn from last years experience and therefor is in a good place to keep us up. Several draws later....
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We are in real trouble. We do not want to go into the last couple of games with the chance of going down. So much that I have witnessed this season from an AM team, so much that I enjoyed watching from his team last season tells me that he is a manager out of his depth that has no idea how to organise or motivate a team. Its a sad state of affairs but we need teams currently below us to get beat as I have no convidence of us adding to our handfull of victories this season.
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think we can forget blackburn. Realistically they're not gonna get 8 points which is what they'll need given their goal difference to overtake us. If they stay up it will be at the expense of one of wigan, bolton or Rangers.. Just the last place to worry about
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I think we will get a point at Norwich, but if that will be enough is up in the air. Spurs last but one game, on their current form, could provide our easiest win. I will be cheering them on all the way at the way on Saturday for sure. They won't be steaming into tackles with the cup final a game away.
Dunno. Spurs - probably need a win to get in the CL.
Baggies- local derby, nothing they'd like better than put us in the shit.
Norwich - nothing to play for, but last home game, excellant season, party atmosphere - don't fancy that.
The long shot is actually needing the points with 3 games to go, but if a)the teams below us do VERY good and b) we do VERY bad in the next three games then i will officially have The Fear.
Have you asked him?
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Perhaps he can learn from last years experience and therefor is in a good place to keep us up. Several draws later....
You mean like he learned from the experience of relegating Blues the first time?
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History denotes that this guy have a great ability to pull defeat from the jaws of victory - just ask any nose that can use words without saying "shit on the Villa" At this point last year they thought they were safe as houses
I am shitting myself and the more i think about our injuries and the whole affair regarding Stan (not that it was avoidable but it has given him something to hide behind)
What was once incomprehensible is now a scary scary reality
Even more worryingly if we survive it will be held up by the clown and probably randy as some sort of victory - i know no one has rights to premiership survival but FFS we are ASTON VILLA - to even be in this situation is deplorable and the manager should go at the end of the season because this is just not acceptable
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We haven't lost in 2,
Look at the predictions in the 'run in' thread, how many had us picking up 2 points in our last 2 games,hardly anyone, go on have a look,
so other teams might well have done better than expected but so have we.
6 points is massive at this stage with few games left, we are in a better position than last week,
I can't see the reason for the meltdown here
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think we can forget blackburn. Realistically they're not gonna get 8 points which is what they'll need given their goal difference to overtake us. If they stay up it will be at the expense of one of wigan, bolton or Rangers.. Just the last place to worry about
Yeah looking at the table a bit more closely i think you are right, we're basically in a mini-league of four.
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Blues beat Sunderland 2-0 on 16 th April and then want on their poorest run all season picking up only 1 point Their worst run of the season
We have every reason to be worried
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think we can forget blackburn. Realistically they're not gonna get 8 points which is what they'll need given their goal difference to overtake us. If they stay up it will be at the expense of one of wigan, bolton or Rangers.. Just the last place to worry about
Yeah looking at the table a bit more closely i think you are right, we're basically in a mini-league of four.
yep. or put another way, if blackburn stay up then we certainly will because two of the teams above them would have to do shit
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Seven points above Blackburn, six above Bolton. We have to play Bolton. Our team is not able to defend from set pieces or crosses, we are crippled with injuries, and we are playing Mark Halsey and Man United in Old Trafford this wkend . Anyone that thinks we are okay will be dragged into reality shortly I think.
I am there already and have been for some time. I would only echo Paulie Walnut's and KT Villains comments that relegation is far more likely than many on here realise. Experiences of recent relegation seasons tell me it is all about momentum at this stage, getting on a roll and having a regular goal scorer. We possess none of those things. Scouring the fixtures and trying to see who will win which game is often meaningless - see West Ham a few seasons ago for a good example with Tevez getting them crucial wins against the likes of Arsenal and Man Utd in their run in when no one gave them a chance. What scares me the most is that we are probably the least well equipped team in terms of personnel and/or manager at this particular moment in time. Yes, we may have potential down the line in terms of our youngsters, but right now they are in the mix with teams that contain a lot of battle hardened and experienced pros who know how to mix it down the wrong end of the table
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Firstly, let me say I am as unhappy as most of you with the situation we are in.
It is deeply concerning if not a matter of life and death. I hope steps are taken to put it right soon and I have no faith in this manager at all and want him gone asap.
However, regarding the possibility of relegation this season, which would essentially mean Blackburn and Bolton overtaking us as things stand...
Blackburn are 7 points behind with a goal difference that essentially makes it 8 points and therefore would have to win 3 games, or win 2 and draw 2 from their last 5 games to overtake us (we have 6 games) if we dont pick up another point (which I dont envisage happening).
This is their fixture list:
Swansea V Blackburn
Blackburn V Norwich
Tottenham V Blackburn
Blackburn V Wigan
Chelsea V Blackburn
Can they get 8 points from those? I doubt it. And every point we get makes it even more of a struggle.
Bolton are essentially 7 points behind with the same number of games as us but also have to come to Villa Park. I know we are having a crap season but we have enough to beat them. They're a very poor side.
Their fixtures:
Bolton v Swansea
Villa v Bolton
Sunderland v Bolton
Bolton v Spurs
Bolton v WBA
Stole v Bolton
I honestly dont see them getting 5 points there, never mind 7. And we'll beat them too.
Never say never but if you reckon we're going down, go and give the bookies your money. They love it.
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If Wigan get something at the Emirates on Monday night, then it really will be time to worry! They then face Fulham away and Newcasle home after that. But they have a belief and aren't scared to have a go - unlike boring Mr Negative. What dismayed me the most was his ''we've got to be realistic'' quote from the recent Arsenal away game giving the players zero confidence to try and win the game. If we'd played Man Utd last night there's no way we would've beat them as we have to be ''realistic''
I still think it'll go to the Norwich game on the final day - the worryingh thing is Wigan face Wolves at home that same day!
Football is a game of irony...
Beginning of the season, Martinez snubbed us and we all said why would you turn down Villa only to be relegated this season with Wigan!
I can just see the above happening, its how football seems to work!
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Subtle, Mazrim. Calling Stoke 'Stole' with Villa's last match in mind. See what you did there.
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I love your optimism Maz - I wish I had it - but I can easily see Bolton getting 7 points from those games. I would never bet on us going down either, I would hate to win money in that way. Or to lose it come to think of it hopefully!
I also see the Bolton home game as being a long, long way from a formality. They aren't some mid table, nothing to play for team (aka Stoke and we can't even beat them) but a club who are going to be as deep in it as we are come that fixture. I hate players like Davies but I would be extremely concerned if it came down to our youngsters up against the likes of him in what might almost be a one off, cup tie game
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I didn't think it was optimism. It's what I think is the reality of it.
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If he did relegate us I think he'd have to leave the country for his own safety
He didn't leave the country after relegating his last club, and then jumping ship to the neighbours...
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Firstly, let me say I am as unhappy as most of you with the situation we are in.
It is deeply concerning if not a matter of life and death. I hope steps are taken to put it right soon and I have no faith in this manager at all and want him gone asap.
However, regarding the possibility of relegation this season, which would essentially mean Blackburn and Bolton overtaking us as things stand...
Blackburn are 7 points behind with a goal difference that essentially makes it 8 points and therefore would have to win 3 games, or win 2 and draw 2 from their last 5 games to overtake us (we have 6 games) if we dont pick up another point (which I dont envisage happening).
This is their fixture list:
Swansea V Blackburn
Blackburn V Norwich
Tottenham V Blackburn
Blackburn V Wigan
Chelsea V Blackburn
Can they get 8 points from those? I doubt it. And every point we get makes it even more of a struggle.
Bolton are essentially 7 points behind with the same number of games as us but also have to come to Villa Park. I know we are having a crap season but we have enough to beat them. They're a very poor side.
Their fixtures:
Bolton v Swansea
Villa v Bolton
Sunderland v Bolton
Bolton v Spurs
Bolton v WBA
Stole v Bolton
I honestly dont see them getting 5 points there, never mind 7. And we'll beat them too.
Never say never but if you reckon we're going down, go and give the bookies your money. They love it.
This. People are basically soiling their pants after last night. There are 2 teams from 4 below us who will survive. It fugures that 2 teams will therefore have to collect some points to do this so we can't shit ourselves if they do. What did people expect, that all the teams below us would not pick a point up again?
Wigan look the best of the bunch on form and although QPR recorded a win last night their remaining games are tough, you cannot see more than few points for them. As Maz says, Bolton and Rovers would have to play out of their skins to record 7 points from their remaining games and a quick look on their message boards shows that their fans have given up the ghost.
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agree about blackburn's fixtures Maz, not so sure about Boltons. I think its possible they could get 8 points from 2 wins and 2 draws given their fixtures or maybe even beat Stoke away. Unlikely though i agree. Bottom line is if we beat Bolton it won't matter
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As shit as we've been I can't subscribe to the fact that we won't get a single point this season.
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I feel like I've been witnessing a slow-motion car crash for the last 9 months and we're now approaching impact time.
I'm not confident at all but I do think we should just about stay up. Although the very fact that I'm saying that shows just how far we've fallen.
Let McCock-pish keep us up and then sack him him the day after the final game.
No, better still, Randy should run on to the pitch as soon as the fulltime whistle goes on the last day of the season, skipping like David Pleat whilst waving 'Eck's P45. No payoff and no reference ( if any other chairman is mental enough to even consider employing this shit-house of a manager then let him get a reference from Fergie).
I never thought I'd say it but I'm missing decisive Doug at the moment
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Firstly, let me say I am as unhappy as most of you with the situation we are in.
It is deeply concerning if not a matter of life and death. I hope steps are taken to put it right soon and I have no faith in this manager at all and want him gone asap.
However, regarding the possibility of relegation this season, which would essentially mean Blackburn and Bolton overtaking us as things stand...
Blackburn are 7 points behind with a goal difference that essentially makes it 8 points and therefore would have to win 3 games, or win 2 and draw 2 from their last 5 games to overtake us (we have 6 games) if we dont pick up another point (which I dont envisage happening).
This is their fixture list:
Swansea V Blackburn
Blackburn V Norwich
Tottenham V Blackburn
Blackburn V Wigan
Chelsea V Blackburn
Can they get 8 points from those? I doubt it. And every point we get makes it even more of a struggle.
Bolton are essentially 7 points behind with the same number of games as us but also have to come to Villa Park. I know we are having a crap season but we have enough to beat them. They're a very poor side.
Their fixtures:
Bolton v Swansea
Villa v Bolton
Sunderland v Bolton
Bolton v Spurs
Bolton v WBA
Stole v Bolton
I honestly dont see them getting 5 points there, never mind 7. And we'll beat them too.
Never say never but if you reckon we're going down, go and give the bookies your money. They love it.
This is a great post! Its rational with current situation and form of the teams. Of course we cannot say for sure what teams will do now to end of season but the post speaks alot of sense. I also like to say that both QPR and Wigan imho are unlikely to carry good run of form for next 6 games as it is actually completley out of form of season as a whole. They both prove they don't have consistency. QPR have home form but not away. Wigan play well and win but they have played well and lost alot and of course just been poor. I don't see any of teams below us finishing above us. I understand the speculation, the fear, the irony but as outlined here and previous post the other teams wont get the points.
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Swansea are going to be a big say in this run in , currently I think its 4 loses in 4 and Bolton and Blackburn have to play them.Infact they themselves could be sucked in if us and the rest pick up some points
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agree about blackburn's fixtures Maz, not so sure about Boltons. I think its possible they could get 8 points from 2 wins and 2 draws given their fixtures or maybe even beat Stoke away. Unlikely though i agree. Bottom line is if we beat Bolton it won't matter
That's the thing - it's pretty much in our own hands as a win at home to Bolton will mean only a minor miracle would see them finishing above us. And as someone else said QPR's run in is pretty tough, so don't expect last night to be a turning point for them either.
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I feel like I've been witnessing a slow-motion car crash for the last 9 months and we're now approaching impact time.
I'm not confident at all but I do think we should just about stay up. Although the very fact that I'm saying that shows just how far we've fallen.
Let McCock-pish keep us up and then sack him him the day after the final game.
No, better still, Randy should run on to the pitch as soon as the fulltime whistle goes on the last day of the season, skipping like David Pleat whilst waving 'Eck's P45. No payoff and no reference ( if any other chairman is mental enough to even consider employing this shit-house of a manager then let him get a reference from Fergie).
I never thought I'd say it but I'm missing decisive Doug at the moment
Do you really? You mean the same Mr Ellis who patted himself on the back and was all smug when he sold to Mr Lerner? I don't see him rejoicing now that the future is bright and we're in safe hands!
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6 points is massive at this stage with few games left, we are in a better position than last week,
I can't see the reason for the meltdown here
Wigan beating Man United might have something to do with it. Did anybody have them down for that particular three points? Or that QPR would give sexy Swansea a hammering? Oh, and our next game being at Old Trafford.
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Do you really?
Yep
He'd have sent McLeish down the road months ago and at least he wouldn't have hidden himself away at the first whiff of criticism. Where the fuck's Lerner when there's tough questions to answer?
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By the way, I only highlighted Bolton and Blackburn for convenience and the fact they currently sit in the bottom 3, I havent ruled out QPR or Wigan still being relegated at all. QPR have horrendous fixtures and Wigan, whilst showing some guts, are very inconsistent.
QPR have to play WBA, Stoke, Spurs, Man City and Chelsea still.
Maybe 4 or 5 points at most. In my opinion not even that.
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agree about blackburn's fixtures Maz, not so sure about Boltons. I think its possible they could get 8 points from 2 wins and 2 draws given their fixtures or maybe even beat Stoke away. Unlikely though i agree. Bottom line is if we beat Bolton it won't matter
That's the thing - it's pretty much in our own hands as a win at home to Bolton will mean only a minor miracle would see them finishing above us. And as someone else said QPR's run in is pretty tough, so don't expect last night to be a turning point for them either.
aye. We just need to win a game basically or worse case scenario 3 draws. 38 points is safe IMO given our goal difference. Even 37 should do it.
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I love your optimism Maz - I wish I had it - but I can easily see Bolton getting 7 points from those games. I would never bet on us going down either, I would hate to win money in that way. Or to lose it come to think of it hopefully!
I also see the Bolton home game as being a long, long way from a formality. They aren't some mid table, nothing to play for team (aka Stoke and we can't even beat them) but a club who are going to be as deep in it as we are come that fixture. I hate players like Davies but I would be extremely concerned if it came down to our youngsters up against the likes of him in what might almost be a one off, cup tie game
The last time we played Bolton in a one-off cup tie at VP, McLeech had a fully fit squad to pick from and we, ummm, lost!
I'm not sure how the man still has a job, if you were so incompetent in your job it wouldn't be your job anymore would it?
McLeech, just get lost, and take your bell-end of a sidekick with you!
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Do you really?
Yep
He'd have sent McLeish down the road months ago and at least he wouldn't have hidden himself away at the first whiff of criticism. Where the fuck's Lerner when there's tough questions to answer?
I agree Chico.
Deadly would have fired McLeish long ago but it's how far we have fallen in such a short time that has worried me.
We have the distinct whiff, no stench of a relegation outfit to me, we have seen it all before and strong leadership is needed from our senior players (all injured/absent/couldn't give a fuck/no backbone), our manager (???) and our chief, who doesn't speak to anyone, to get us through this.
Lerner is not well thought of in the States and the pattern of the Browns (great start and a muddling present) is being replicated here.
He's lost interest in this 'project' and we are the fall guys.
For what it's worth I do think we will just about survive, but by the skin of our teeth.
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What may yet save us is that with it being so tight between the other four clubs, they may be happy with draws in some games. Enough to overtake each other, but not enough to catch us.
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I would hope we would go for it against Sunderland to get 3 points, I wouldn't want to rely on a desperate tussle with the equally desperate Bolton.
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6 points is massive at this stage with few games left, we are in a better position than last week,
I can't see the reason for the meltdown here
Wigan beating Man United might have something to do with it. Did anybody have them down for that particular three points? Or that QPR would give sexy Swansea a hammering? Oh, and our next game being at Old Trafford.
did anyone have us down for a point at Liverpool, no,
i remember posters saying that they couldnt see us gaining another point this season, and we have just picked up 2,
we are rubbish, but the way people look at the fixtures and see us losing all ours and shittier teams below us winning most of theres is rediculous.
dont get me wrong, i want to see the back of AM, i think he's doing a bad job managing Villa, but we wont go down, every game that passes puts us in a better position,
and we have a game in hand over most below us, so we can write of the man utd game if you like
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6 points is massive at this stage with few games left, we are in a better position than last week,
I can't see the reason for the meltdown here
Wigan beating Man United might have something to do with it. Did anybody have them down for that particular three points? Or that QPR would give sexy Swansea a hammering? Oh, and our next game being at Old Trafford.
did anyone have us down for a point at Liverpool, no,
i remember posters saying that they couldnt see us gaining another point this season, and we have just picked up 2,
we are rubbish, but the way people look at the fixtures and see us losing all ours and shittier teams below us winning most of theres is rediculous.
dont get me wrong, i want to see the back of AM, i think he's doing a bad job managing Villa, but we wont go down, every game that passes puts us in a better position,
and we have a game in hand over most below us, so we can write of the man utd game if you like
Totally agree with this. I just can't see us losing all of our remaining games while Blackburn and QPR win all theirs. A couple of draws should see us safe, and since our manager is the ultimate champion of tedious stalemates, we should scrape safety by a handful of points.
The only thing is, the reward will be another season for McLeish, which is kind of like winning a great big pie in a raffle, only to discover upon tasting that it's made from SHIT.
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I realise that John e. Things always look different the next day. Last night when I turned on the tv at 11.15pm to see that Wigan had beaten united and QPR had stuffed Swansea I didn't have time to process all the data. It just seemed ominous and like we'd be in the mire.
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By the way, I only highlighted Bolton and Blackburn for convenience and the fact they currently sit in the bottom 3, I havent ruled out QPR or Wigan still being relegated at all. QPR have horrendous fixtures and Wigan, whilst showing some guts, are very inconsistent.
QPR have to play WBA, Stoke, Spurs, Man City and Chelsea still.
Maybe 4 or 5 points at most. In my opinion not even that.
They've won three of their last five, including beating Arsenal and Liverpool. I think QPR will stay up.
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I also like to say that both QPR and Wigan imho are unlikely to carry good run of form for next 6 games as it is actually completley out of form of season as a whole. They both prove they don't have consistency. QPR have home form but not away. Wigan play well and win but they have played well and lost alot and of course just been poor.
QPR are not the team they were under Colin, so you can't take the whole season as a guide to how they might do. Hughes has had an effect and they are a different animal now. And if they can beat Arsenal and Liverpool I wouldn't bet against them being capable of beating WBA, Stoke and even Spurs, who are shite on current form. And Wigan last season continued their good run from game 29 onwards. They took 8 points in the last five games, 15 in the last 10. If they do the same this season they'll finish on 39, which may be beyond us.
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It seems to me that the theory is the teams below will go on top 6 level runs of form and we won't get another point this season.
So yes - I agree we'll go down if that happens.
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I can't believe it's come down to this .
Oh wait a minute , yes I can . ffs . McLeish OUT!!!!!!!!!!!
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By the way, I only highlighted Bolton and Blackburn for convenience and the fact they currently sit in the bottom 3, I havent ruled out QPR or Wigan still being relegated at all. QPR have horrendous fixtures and Wigan, whilst showing some guts, are very inconsistent.
QPR have to play WBA, Stoke, Spurs, Man City and Chelsea still.
Maybe 4 or 5 points at most. In my opinion not even that.
They've won three of their last five, including beating Arsenal and Liverpool. I think QPR will stay up.
Can they keep it going though. They might stay up but it will be most likely at Blackburns, Wigan or Boltons expense.
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4 points from the Sunderland and Bolton games shouldn't be beyond us.
But it depends if McLeish sends us out with the usual instruction of
'Score a goal and then try and shut up shop'
We're nowhere near good enough to do that.
That shit attitude cost us a win against Stoke.
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Bolton at home has become * our cup final *
how f**king depressing . Im off to work . McLeish OUT!!!!!!
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I realise that John e. Things always look different the next day. Last night when I turned on the tv at 11.15pm to see that Wigan had beaten united and QPR had stuffed Swansea I didn't have time to process all the data. It just seemed ominous and like we'd be in the mire.
Very true Irish, I feel a bit better than I did late last night when it was real doom and gloom. And I've always been a pessimist by nature. I remember thinking we wouldn't win one single game when we came up from the second division in 74/75 - mind you, we didn't win that many when it came to it! I had a Man City best friend at our school in Harrogate who, by contrast, always thought they would win every single game they played and always envied him his optimism - this being a time when they were rapidly moving from having been a very good team to the disasters that would beset them for most of the next 20 years or more!
And, of course, lest we forget, we want all the optimists on here to be right!
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By the way, I only highlighted Bolton and Blackburn for convenience and the fact they currently sit in the bottom 3, I havent ruled out QPR or Wigan still being relegated at all. QPR have horrendous fixtures and Wigan, whilst showing some guts, are very inconsistent.
QPR have to play WBA, Stoke, Spurs, Man City and Chelsea still.
Maybe 4 or 5 points at most. In my opinion not even that.
They've won three of their last five, including beating Arsenal and Liverpool. I think QPR will stay up.
Can they keep it going though. They might stay up but it will be most likely at Blackburns, Wigan or Boltons expense.
You're right of course. I do think we'll stay up, but it is deeply worrying that the teams below us (excluding the as good as relegated Wolves) have all won games against decent teams recently, and importantly, mostly have managers used to scrapping for their lives. And of course the Blues situation last year isn't directly comparable, but it is still worrying that the same manager who basically needed one more point from their last three games still took them down.
The trouble is, we're almost certainly going to lose against Man U, then if any of those below us pick up results, the panic might set into the squad.
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Bolton at home has become * our cup final *
how f**king depressing . Im off to work . McLeish OUT!!!!!!
Bolton comfortably beat us at home earlier in the season as well, in the League Cup, I'm worried.
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Remember it's not just one team below us having do do well and go on a point achieving run, it's three,
all three have to have a very succesfull end of season whilst we go on a losing run even worse than the Form we have showed so far this season,
As others have said we are pretty good at draws, you still get a point for them as proved against Liverpool
Every little helps
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all three have to have a very succesfull end of season whilst we go on a losing run even worse than the Form we have showed so far this season,
Which is exactly what happened to Blues last season under our manager
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all three have to have a very succesfull end of season whilst we go on a losing run even worse than the Form we have showed so far this season,
Which is exactly what happened to Blues last season under our manager
we are not Blues
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Bolton at home has become * our cup final *
how f**king depressing . Im off to work . McLeish OUT!!!!!!
Bolton comfortably beat us at home earlier in the season as well, in the League Cup, I'm worried.
And we made them look utterly useless when we played them in the league.
We've been pretty awful this season, but at no point have we lost more than two games in a row across all competitions. We probably need another three points at most to be completely sure of staying up.
We've seen nothing to suggest that we about to go on a six match losing streak.
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all three have to have a very succesfull end of season whilst we go on a losing run even worse than the Form we have showed so far this season,
Which is exactly what happened to Blues last season under our manager
we are not Blues
True
We're doing a better impression of them than I'd have liked, though.
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It's true that under McLeish we typically roll over and have our tummies tickled by the so called elite but we do seem to be able to pick up points elsewhere and I use the term points literally - one at a time.
I dont expect anything against United but we should go there and play with freedom, as Wigan did, and you never know. Its a case of anything is a bonus. Then its business time and we can get points in any of the remaining fixtures. I see no reason why we can't get 40 points at least, maybe more and climb a few places. That's essentially beating Bolton and a couple more draws. Nothing to write home about but still a modest realistic target.
We need Gabby to remember where the goal is, the continued rise of Weimann, a few players back fully fit like Albrighton, N'Zogbia and Clark, then have a real go.
There is quality in this side even if the manager struggles to conjur it. We were unlucky to draw against poxy Stoke despite the negativity and could have came away from Anfield with the points too.
So yes, lots of cause for concern as to what the future holds and lots of work to do in the Summer behind the scenes but we should be alright this season.
In the meantime the main positive is the kids are getting the exposure they need and this kind of situation can be character buiding. Its not ideal but could be a blessing in disguise in the future.
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i'm thinking about the relegation obsesion that some people have, no matter what happens they can foretell a situation happening that makes it more likely for us to go down,
we have been hovering between 5-8 points of the relegation zone for the last few weeks, the teams below us have picked up points in some suprising places, but hey we are still 6 points clear, so we are actually in better shape now than we were, but still acording to some we are going to be dragged in to the bottom 3 spots soon,
its going to be even worse on here if we lose against Man Utd even if the points difference is still pretty much the same.
the only reason i can think of to explain it, is excitment, its more exciting to think and believe we are in a relegation scrap than to just go through the motions at the end of the season.
i can remember being at Carrow road, and VP against Cov on the final day needing points, and it was exciting.
a bit like football hooliganism in the 70's, you shit your pants most weeks, but you still went back for more the following week because it was exciting.
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all three have to have a very succesfull end of season whilst we go on a losing run even worse than the Form we have showed so far this season,
Which is exactly what happened to Blues last season under our manager
we are not Blues
True
We're doing a better impression of them than I'd have liked, though.
have to agree there
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I'm pretty sure Blues didn't lose more than 2 games in a row either and then got 1 point from the 22nd April onwards The problem is as team gain ground on you, the panic starts to set in. By my reckoning every other team bar Norwich will have something to play for WBA and Sunderland will be desperate to beat us ,Bolton obvious reasons, Spurs for a champs league spot
I could see us going on a similar bad run if we get a hammering at OT especially if were set up for damage limitation
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john e, that's actually false, we are nearer to relegation than before. Just a few weeks back, we were around 10/11 points clear.
For me, it's beside the point, though. I gain a certain peace from the fact that if we go down, then it won't be because of one unfair incident etc, we have always had and still have more than enough points to stay in the league. If we go down from this point, then we deserve to go down.
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To be anything like sure of surviving, we need to score more than one goal a game, as we are unlikely to keep a clean sheet due to set piece syndrome.
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If he did relegate us I think he'd have to leave the country for his own safety
Is Scotland a different country ?
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If he did relegate us I think he'd have to leave the country for his own safety
Is Scotland a different country ?
It may well be in a few years!
No matter what the results were yesterday, I still do not believe that we are going to go down. We'll survive, just, but in doing so it will simply highlight what a car crash of a season this has been and what an utter bloody mess the club is in, from top through to bottom.
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6 points is massive at this stage with few games left, we are in a better position than last week,
I can't see the reason for the meltdown here
Wigan beating Man United might have something to do with it. Did anybody have them down for that particular three points? Or that QPR would give sexy Swansea a hammering? Oh, and our next game being at Old Trafford.
did anyone have us down for a point at Liverpool, no,
I did, I also thought we'd beat Stoke. Don't think we'll get relegated though.
If he did relegate us I think he'd have to leave the country for his own safety
Is Scotland a different country ?
If he does relegate us, and he does come here I'll be waiting for him.
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I bet he's petrified...
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It would take a major effort from 3 teams below us to get Villa relegated, Wigan and QPR are starting to look like they have the staying power, in fact Wigan look they are on a real roll and deserve to stay up.
So the question is have Bolton or Blackburn got anything in there locker that could see them rise up the placings, the idea that it may come down to Us v Bolton as a decider scares you shitless because I wouldn't bet against Bolton winning that.
Could we get relegated, well as long as its mathematically possible yes we could.
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It would take a major effort from 3 teams below us to get Villa relegated, Wigan and QPR are starting to look like they have the staying power, in fact Wigan look they are on a real roll and deserve to stay up.
So the question is have Bolton or Blackburn got anything in there locker that could see them rise up the placings, the idea that it may come down to Us v Bolton as a decider scares you shitless because I wouldn't bet against Bolton winning that.
Could we get relegated, well as long as its mathematically possible yes we could.
Blackburn have Yakubu, who on his day can be absolutely lethal. Wolves are definitely down, I think Bolton will join them, then it's down to either Wigan, Blackburn or QPR to join them. Think it'll be Wigan personally, with us staying up by a point or two.
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It would take a major effort from 3 teams below us to get Villa relegated, Wigan and QPR are starting to look like they have the staying power, in fact Wigan look they are on a real roll and deserve to stay up.
So the question is have Bolton or Blackburn got anything in there locker that could see them rise up the placings, the idea that it may come down to Us v Bolton as a decider scares you shitless because I wouldn't bet against Bolton winning that.
Could we get relegated, well as long as its mathematically possible yes we could.
Blackburn have Yakubu, who on his day can be absolutely lethal. Wolves are definitely down, I think Bolton will join them, then it's down to either Wigan, Blackburn or QPR to join them. Think it'll be Wigan personally, with us staying up by a point or two.
I would agree about the margin of a 1 point or maybe 2 in us staying up, I think it will be that close.
What a sorry state.
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Tough times for Owen Coyle.
In the first half of last season he was getting talked up as a star of the future.
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Tough times for Owen Coyle.
In the first half of last season he was getting talked up as a star of the future.
Its for that reason I wouldn't completely rule him or Bolton out just yet, he was on the box the other day and looked a confident man to me.
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He's another I'd take over Mcleish, but I can say that for most. We are in a sorry state at the moment, the fact we are still in a battle is appalling and indictment of our board and manager.
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He's another I'd take over Mcleish, but I can say that for most. We are in a sorry state at the moment, the fact we are still in a battle is appalling and indictment of our board and manager.
Agree
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Tough times for Owen Coyle.
In the first half of last season he was getting talked up as a star of the future.
Makes you think twice about Lambert and/or Rodgers, doesn't it?
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Tough times for Owen Coyle.
In the first half of last season he was getting talked up as a star of the future.
Makes you think twice about Lambert and/or Rodgers, doesn't it?
It does, but not if they'd be replacing the ginger Mourinho we currently have.
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I have to say I have never rated Martinez, but I was looking at him closely last night and he seems really focused, just noticing how he was staying on top of the players, encouraging the players when they did well, applauding players when it merited it, he has empathy with his players so you would assume he will get the best from them although this season doesn't really show that.
He may be worth a shout if Wigan are relegated, but would he turn us down again, it don't look good on the old status for the club if we keep getting knocked back.
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He only turned down our advances because he'd already agreed to stay at Wigan before we came calling.
Which I respect. If your word means nothing, you mean nothing.
Apparently he is leaving Wigan this summer regardless. I was initially against us appointing him last summer but compared to what we have now I wouldn't hesistate.
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Tough times for Owen Coyle.
In the first half of last season he was getting talked up as a star of the future.
Makes you think twice about Lambert and/or Rodgers, doesn't it?
Rogers team looked decidedly shit from the first half I saw last night.
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Tough times for Owen Coyle.
In the first half of last season he was getting talked up as a star of the future.
Makes you think twice about Lambert and/or Rodgers, doesn't it?
Rogers team looked decidedly shit from the first half I saw last night.
I get the feeling they've hit a Charltom-under-Curbishley style end of the season run.
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Yes. I think it was Dave Whelan who managed to spin the whole thing into 'Martinez turns down Villa'. Still, I can't quite make my mind up about Martinez - he certainly gets Wigan playing in the last quarter of the season, but why are they so poor until that stage?
Obviously, I'd swap McLeish for him in a flash. But then I'd do that with all but two or three PL managers. And half the Championship managers.
I do think we'll stay up, but I think it'll be because not all of the four teams directly below us (I won't include Wolves, they're doomed) will get enough points to drop us in it, rather than anything we do. I can see us finishing 17th. Which, even with our downgraded expectations this season, is bordering on criminal.
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Tough times for Owen Coyle.
In the first half of last season he was getting talked up as a star of the future.
Makes you think twice about Lambert and/or Rodgers, doesn't it?
Rogers team looked decidedly shit from the first half I saw last night.
I get the feeling they've hit a Charltom-under-Curbishley style end of the season run.
That sounds like a North Yorkshire town that you think should be nice but flatters to deceive.
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He only turned down our advances because he'd already agreed to stay at Wigan before we came calling.
Which I respect. If your word means nothing, you mean nothing.
Apparently he is leaving Wigan this summer regardless. I was initially against us appointing him last summer but compared to what we have now I wouldn't hesistate.
My thoughts aswell, couldn't help notice last night he tries to develop a passing game, but he just don't have that much there to do that, could't help thinking that in the same way he was trying to push Moses forward on the break, who has nothing like the pace of Agbonlahor says to me he would have better prospects to work with at Villa.
Think he could do a job.
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It seems to me that the theory is the teams below will go on top 6 level runs of form and we won't get another point this season.
So yes - I agree we'll go down if that happens.
Yes it seems unlikely but Wigan are 4th and QPR are 7th in the current form table, despite both suffering from dubious/ridiculous decisions at the weekend, which certainly cost Wigan points, and possibly QPR too.
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He only turned down our advances because he'd already agreed to stay at Wigan before we came calling.
Which I respect. If your word means nothing, you mean nothing.
Apparently he is leaving Wigan this summer regardless. I was initially against us appointing him last summer but compared to what we have now I wouldn't hesistate.
My thoughts aswell, couldn't help notice last night he tries to develop a passing game, but he just don't have that much there to do that, could't help thinking that in the same way he was trying to push Moses forward on the break, who has nothing like the pace of Agbonlahor says to me he would have better prospects to work with at Villa.
Think he could do a job.
Not sure how much is down to Martinez, but they also seem to have a good scouting system as Wigan with players like Palacios, Valencia and N'Zogbia making their names there. So if we did get him as our manager, I'd hope he'd bring a few of theri scouts with him.
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N'Zogbia came from Newcastle, not really that hard to scout.
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Tough times for Owen Coyle.
In the first half of last season he was getting talked up as a star of the future.
Makes you think twice about Lambert and/or Rodgers, doesn't it?
Not really, no. I think they've both built good sides, and work well with their board to get something lasting going. Coyle was lucky to get a decent honeymood period when he took over at Bolton, but the rot set in their towards the end of last season.
I'd still have either Coyle, Rodgers or Lambert ahead of McVaginapelmet though.
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He only turned down our advances because he'd already agreed to stay at Wigan before we came calling.
Which I respect. If your word means nothing, you mean nothing.
Apparently he is leaving Wigan this summer regardless. I was initially against us appointing him last summer but compared to what we have now I wouldn't hesistate.
My thoughts aswell, couldn't help notice last night he tries to develop a passing game, but he just don't have that much there to do that, could't help thinking that in the same way he was trying to push Moses forward on the break, who has nothing like the pace of Agbonlahor says to me he would have better prospects to work with at Villa.
Think he could do a job.
Not sure how much is down to Martinez, but they also seem to have a good scouting system as Wigan with players like Palacios, Valencia and N'Zogbia making their names there. So if we did get him as our manager, I'd hope he'd bring a few of theri scouts with him.
Palacios and Valencia were down to Spudface weren't they?
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N'Zogbia came from Newcastle, not really that hard to scout.
As a poor left back.
I'd also add Rodallega to that, although think people make too much of him, still think he was a good signing for them.
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Palacios and Valencia were down to Spudface weren't they?
That's why I said I'm not sure how much is down to Martinez and I'd like him to come WITH the Wigan scouts, or at least some idea how to implement something similar at Villa.
Wigan have unearthed some good players during their PL time.
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He only turned down our advances because he'd already agreed to stay at Wigan before we came calling.
Which I respect. If your word means nothing, you mean nothing.
Apparently he is leaving Wigan this summer regardless. I was initially against us appointing him last summer but compared to what we have now I wouldn't hesistate.
My thoughts aswell, couldn't help notice last night he tries to develop a passing game, but he just don't have that much there to do that, could't help thinking that in the same way he was trying to push Moses forward on the break, who has nothing like the pace of Agbonlahor says to me he would have better prospects to work with at Villa.
Think he could do a job.
Not sure how much is down to Martinez, but they also seem to have a good scouting system as Wigan with players like Palacios, Valencia and N'Zogbia making their names there. So if we did get him as our manager, I'd hope he'd bring a few of theri scouts with him.
Palacios and Valencia were down to Spudface weren't they?
I rememer reading somewhere that Wenger tipped Palacios and Valencia to Bruce.
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He only turned down our advances because he'd already agreed to stay at Wigan before we came calling.
Which I respect. If your word means nothing, you mean nothing.
Apparently he is leaving Wigan this summer regardless. I was initially against us appointing him last summer but compared to what we have now I wouldn't hesistate.
My thoughts aswell, couldn't help notice last night he tries to develop a passing game, but he just don't have that much there to do that, could't help thinking that in the same way he was trying to push Moses forward on the break, who has nothing like the pace of Agbonlahor says to me he would have better prospects to work with at Villa.
Think he could do a job.
Moses might be slower but he takes the ball with him and doesn't get knocked off it so easily.
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Moses it a good player really stepped up this season and taken on the Nzog role there.
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For all the praise heaped on Rodgers, Swansea are only 4 points above us, having played a game more - and we've been absolutely,utterly shit for most of the season. The time to go for these guys is when they've proved themselves as more than one season wonders, two or three seasons in the top half of the PL without taking the Pulis all-in wrestling approach.
Edit - I'd still take him over our current foll though, at least the football would be better.
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He's another I'd take over Mcleish, but I can say that for most. We are in a sorry state at the moment, the fact we are still in a battle is appalling and indictment of our board and manager.
Agree
Let's hope they are going to do something about it in the summer. Three seasons of absolute crap in a row would be pretty hard for any club to endure. We simply must start progressing again soon.
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For all the praise heaped on Rodgers, Swansea are only 4 points above us, having played a game more - and we've been absolutely,utterly shit for most of the season. The time to go for these guys is when they've proved themselves as more than one season wonders, two or three seasons in the top half of the PL without taking the Pulis all-in wrestling approach.
I disagree.
Yes, Swansea are only four points above us but they are safe, and this is their first ever PL season. The squad's been put together on a shoestring. They've definitely punched way above their weight, whereas we.... well.
Swansea may well drop away in the last few games and yes, next season will be very interesting for them. But I think, as far as Brendan Rodgers has demonstrated, he's a coach who just 'gets it'. He's a coach who has a pretty average group of players playing very well indeed, and that's my definition of a talented coach. Of course, a coach who gets a good group of players playing like absolute shite is my definition of a very poor coach.
I'd love to see what Rodgers can do with a stronger group of players. The philosophy and approach is there.
By the way, how many coaches would purposefully target a goalkeeper who was highly skilled with the ball at his feet, so that he'd be able to fit in with Swansea's style and play the ball quickly and neatly to his defenders? I read an interview with Rodgers a few weeks ago - that's how he ended up signing Michael Vorm. Really impressed me.
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He only turned down our advances because he'd already agreed to stay at Wigan before we came calling.
Which I respect. If your word means nothing, you mean nothing.
Apparently he is leaving Wigan this summer regardless. I was initially against us appointing him last summer but compared to what we have now I wouldn't hesistate.
My thoughts aswell, couldn't help notice last night he tries to develop a passing game, but he just don't have that much there to do that, could't help thinking that in the same way he was trying to push Moses forward on the break, who has nothing like the pace of Agbonlahor says to me he would have better prospects to work with at Villa.
Think he could do a job.
Not sure how much is down to Martinez, but they also seem to have a good scouting system as Wigan with players like Palacios, Valencia and N'Zogbia making their names there. So if we did get him as our manager, I'd hope he'd bring a few of theri scouts with him.
Yes, and Victor Moses is beginning to look useful for them. I thought we should've bid for him when he was at Palace - didn't cost too much and arguably he has out performed N'Zogbia this season.
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Tough times for Owen Coyle.
In the first half of last season he was getting talked up as a star of the future.
Makes you think twice about Lambert and/or Rodgers, doesn't it?
Rogers team looked decidedly shit from the first half I saw last night.
Agree, and it worries me that they're well out of form and face Blackburn this Saturday, although their manager Rogers has come out and apologised to the travelling fans over their poor display. Hope he can now fire them up for Saturday.
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For all the praise heaped on Rodgers, Swansea are only 4 points above us, having played a game more - and we've been absolutely,utterly shit for most of the season. The time to go for these guys is when they've proved themselves as more than one season wonders, two or three seasons in the top half of the PL without taking the Pulis all-in wrestling approach.
I disagree.
Yes, Swansea are only four points above us but they are safe, and this is their first ever PL season. The squad's been put together on a shoestring. They've definitely punched way above their weight, whereas we.... well.
Swansea may well drop away in the last few games and yes, next season will be very interesting for them. But I think, as far as Brendan Rodgers has demonstrated, he's a coach who just 'gets it'. He's a coach who has a pretty average group of players playing very well indeed, and that's my definition of a talented coach. Of course, a coach who gets a good group of players playing like absolute shite is my definition of a very poor coach.
I'd love to see what Rodgers can do with a stronger group of players. The philosophy and approach is there.
By the way, how many coaches would purposefully target a goalkeeper who was highly skilled with the ball at his feet, so that he'd be able to fit in with Swansea's style and play the ball quickly and neatly to his defenders? I read an interview with Rodgers a few weeks ago - that's how he ended up signing Michael Vorm. Really impressed me.
I see where you are coming from Merv, but I think you have to be careful with up and coming managers that it's not a flash in the pan. I remember a Guardian or Independent article about two up and coming managers and their intelligent philosophies about 4 or 5 years ago, and how they represented the next generation of English and British coaches. I can't remember who the other one was but one was Adi Boothroyd, then doing small wonders at Watford. His career has since been less than impressive. People were also raving about Phil Brown a couple of years ago achieving wonders on a small budget. Until he got relegated, made a twat of himself and disappeared off the radar. Rodgers and Lambert may be the real deal, and I would prefer either of them to McLeish because they try to win and try to play proper football. But each would be a bigger risk than, say, Hughes or Jol. And I would prefer the tea lady to McLeish.
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The above is spot on, but I think some of it comes down to breaks that managers get too in landing the bigger job at the right moment. Moyes for example had not had a chance at the top level but Everton saw something in him and took him on. But looking at it, there is a graveyard of managers that are killed through second season syndrome. Burley, Jewell, Brown spring to mind, Dowie too. All lauded at one point but struggling now, but I think part of the issue is they had taken their clubs to the maximum of their potential, and then either lost key players or momentum that gets you through the first season from the promotion campaign, confidence ebbs and you lose games. The ideal, is that these managers move on to bigger clubs while their belief and stock is high. If they don't and they dip, it is hard to come back.
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Good job this season is running out of games, I'd be pretty worried if there were still 10 games left with the form Wigan and QPR are getting in.
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http://www.birminghampost.net/midlands-birmingham-sport/west-midlands-sports/aston-villa-fc/2012/04/12/mat-kendrick-predicts-aston-villa-s-points-tally-from-their-final-six-fixtures-65233-30740935/ (http://www.birminghampost.net/midlands-birmingham-sport/west-midlands-sports/aston-villa-fc/2012/04/12/mat-kendrick-predicts-aston-villa-s-points-tally-from-their-final-six-fixtures-65233-30740935/)
Kendrick has us safe so that's all that matters.
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I just read that the fewest home wins we've ever had in a season is 5 way back in 1880-81. We played 11 home games that season. We are on 4 at the moment.
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http://www.birminghampost.net/midlands-birmingham-sport/west-midlands-sports/aston-villa-fc/2012/04/12/mat-kendrick-predicts-aston-villa-s-points-tally-from-their-final-six-fixtures-65233-30740935/ (http://www.birminghampost.net/midlands-birmingham-sport/west-midlands-sports/aston-villa-fc/2012/04/12/mat-kendrick-predicts-aston-villa-s-points-tally-from-their-final-six-fixtures-65233-30740935/)
Kendrick has us safe so that's all that matters.
He's not exactly sticking his neck on the line is he? He predicts the draw specialists of the division will get 6 points from their final 6 games. What insight!!!
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http://www.birminghampost.net/midlands-birmingham-sport/west-midlands-sports/aston-villa-fc/2012/04/12/mat-kendrick-predicts-aston-villa-s-points-tally-from-their-final-six-fixtures-65233-30740935/ (http://www.birminghampost.net/midlands-birmingham-sport/west-midlands-sports/aston-villa-fc/2012/04/12/mat-kendrick-predicts-aston-villa-s-points-tally-from-their-final-six-fixtures-65233-30740935/)
Kendrick has us safe so that's all that matters.
I wish I had his confidence!
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I just read that the fewest home wins we've ever had in a season is 5 way back in 1880-81. We played 11 home games that season. We are on 4 at the moment.
Wow.
That is a genuinely shocking statistic, and when you consider what you're expected to pay to watch it should be reason enough on it's own to wield the axe.
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tough games in front of us.i wish i was more confident but i think it could go right to the last game of the season and norwich away is not the best place to go when you are fighting for prem survival.i hope we stay up because if we go down it would be a complete disaster.that championship is a bitch to get out of.squeeky bum time!
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Jesus.
Each new statistic us more appalling than the last.
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That really is piss poor.
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We could really do with a result now against Utd. Our trouble is that four of the teams below us have picked up a few wins here and there. Bolton and Blackburn have hit the skids in the last couple thankfully. But the fact is we're not winning any games.
The Bolton game will be absolutely key, and once we get Utd out the way we've got easier games (if you can call anything easy for us). We just need 4 points. I just don't see where we're gonna win. We'll lose again before the seasons out, so we're looking at more draws. In fairness though we could pick up chuff all and still survive, but I believe we'll need 38 bare minimum. There's a few wins left in those four.
All I hope though, is that when something seems so certain in football, like Utd walking away with the title, there's often a few surprises to make things more interesting. It'd certainly be something if we pulled off a win and City won. Suddenly the Manc derby has a lot riding on it. I don't think it'll come to that in truth. Utd normally need one nudge to snap themselves out of any complacency. They'll be up for it saturday and we'll probably get the backlash.
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Sunday.
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Sunday.
Of course, we're playing Utd. I should have known better. They always get saturday afternoons off for a bit of shopping.
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I'm sure we will scrape a win somewhere. Be nice to get it before the last day.
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I don't think my nerves will stand it if it goes to the last day.
If McLeish keeps us up on the last day he'll look like a hero.... ;)
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After getting a good hiding on sunday, we will need 4 points from the next two games. Whichever way round we get them I don't particularly care but we must not lose to Bolton. If we do that could, it might not but I am very pessimistic at the moment, be the defining moment of our season.
4 points from those two games should see us safe (all fingers/toes crossed)
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You can get 12-1. Please gamble responsibly.
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I think we will get at least 1 win and a draw from the games against Bolton, West Brom and Norwich. That leaves Man Utd, Tottenham and Sunderland and I reckon we'll pick up at least 1 draw from these which would see us on 40 points, and I don't think we even need 40 points to stay up this season.
I'm not worried about relegation this year.
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You can get 12-1. Please gamble responsibly.
That's not bad as i heard we were 9-1 the other day,worth a tenner.
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You can get 12-1. Please gamble responsibly.
That's not bad as i heard we were 9-1 the other day,worth a tenner.
BetFred is nines, and we are the longest price he is offering.
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I think we will get at least 1 win and a draw from the games against Bolton, West Brom and Norwich. That leaves Man Utd, Tottenham and Sunderland and I reckon we'll pick up at least 1 draw from these which would see us on 40 points, and I don't think we even need 40 points to stay up this season.
I'm not worried about relegation this year.
we dont look like beating anybody though. cant see us scoring more than one goal in any game. our team of midgets are being destroyed at set pieces, last 2 games it has cost us.
if bolton were to take the lead against us, then the shit would really starting hitting the fan
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I think we will get at least 1 win and a draw from the games against Bolton, West Brom and Norwich. That leaves Man Utd, Tottenham and Sunderland and I reckon we'll pick up at least 1 draw from these which would see us on 40 points, and I don't think we even need 40 points to stay up this season.
I'm not worried about relegation this year.
we dont look like beating anybody though. cant see us scoring more than one goal in any game. our team of midgets are being destroyed at set pieces, last 2 games it has cost us.
if bolton were to take the lead against us, then the shit would really starting hitting the fan
I personally see Norwich beating us with Grant Holt bagging a brace
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I think we will get at least 1 win and a draw from the games against Bolton, West Brom and Norwich. That leaves Man Utd, Tottenham and Sunderland and I reckon we'll pick up at least 1 draw from these which would see us on 40 points, and I don't think we even need 40 points to stay up this season.
I'm not worried about relegation this year.
we dont look like beating anybody though. cant see us scoring more than one goal in any game. our team of midgets are being destroyed at set pieces, last 2 games it has cost us.
if bolton were to take the lead against us, then the shit would really starting hitting the fan
Granted we haven't looked good of late, in fact we haven't looked particularly good all season and that's putting it nicely but I would be amazed if we don't muster 1 single win over the next 6 games. I highlighted those 3 as games where I think we can pick up 3 points on the grounds that Bolton are worse than us (albeit showing more fight it seems) and West Brom and Norwich won't have much to play for. I'd have included Sunderland in that list but I can see O'Neill getting them fired up for the game at Villa Park.
It doesn't need to be a convincing win, a scrappy 1-0 or 2-1 would suffice.
I agree though about needing to improve on set pieces, and Villa Park won't be a happy place if Bolton do take the lead, especially if we haven't picked up any more points in the 2 games before hand.
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Wow, just looking at the table. It's so close down there now and just the wrong time to be playing the Champions elect too. If we lose as expected and the others win it will get very uncomfortable indeed.
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I just read that the fewest home wins we've ever had in a season is 5 way back in 1880-81. We played 11 home games that season. We are on 4 at the moment.
Wow.
That is a genuinely shocking statistic, and when you consider what you're expected to pay to watch it should be reason enough on it's own to wield the axe.
Typo by me, it was 1890-91 and not 1880-81.
More detail here...
http://astonvilla-views.com/2012/04/11/mcleish-and-the-worse-home-record-in-138-years-avfc/
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We have also have failed to score from our last 346 corners in the Premier League in the past 17 months.
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We have also have failed to score from our last 346 corners in the Premier League in the past 17 months.
Blackpool (h)Collins ,was the last corner we scored. Shocking
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We have also have failed to score from our last 346 corners in the Premier League in the past 17 months.
Blackpool (h)Collins ,was the last corner we scored. Shocking
Stanley Matthews was not tall enough to stop him.
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We have also have failed to score from our last 346 corners in the Premier League in the past 17 months.
Blackpool (h)Collins ,was the last corner we scored. Shocking
and he's been heading them over ever since. "Villa corner... Collins... Goal kick".
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We need 3 more points,
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We need 3 more points,
We need whatever we can get.
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I don't think my nerves will stand it if it goes to the last day.
If McLeish keeps us up on the last day he'll look like a hero.... ;)
We may have a chuckle about the bit in bold, but if it does come to that I can definitely see him acting like he has achieved something by keeping us up. He's already spent this week telling us all that we haven't got much chance on Sunday and I'm sure it's got to the stage now where the players believe they are beaten before they even set foot on the coach to go to games against the so called "big boys". It all rests on the following two home games for me. Four or maybe even three points from those two games should be enough, but two defeats and I think that could be us done for.
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Without a doubt, he will act all I am if we stay up on the final day. The reality is he should be given his marching orders within 20 minutes of the final whistle at carrow road. Paul Faulkner should be doing his homework now on the next man in.
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I just read that the fewest home wins we've ever had in a season is 5 way back in 1880-81. We played 11 home games that season. We are on 4 at the moment.
Wow.
That is a genuinely shocking statistic, and when you consider what you're expected to pay to watch it should be reason enough on it's own to wield the axe.
Typo by me, it was 1890-91 and not 1880-81.
More detail here...
http://astonvilla-views.com/2012/04/11/mcleish-and-the-worse-home-record-in-138-years-avfc/
Regardless of whether we stay up or not, this damning stat is grounds for dismissal pure and simple.
The writing is on the wall, we might get away with it this season (and with stats like this we will be getting away with it) but next season we won't unless things change.
I've so little faith left in Randy though - to manage to make a worse appointment than GH was quite an achievement. McGrath only knows what we would get next.
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Without a doubt, he will act all I am if we stay up on the final day. The reality is he should be given his marching orders within 20 minutes of the final whistle at carrow road. Paul Faulkner should be doing his homework now on the next man in.
Judging by how satisfied he looked after we scraped past Fulham the other week, then I am certain he will extremely pleased with himself if such events happen on the final day. I hope he is sacked at Carrow Road, as Faulkner will then only have to make the short journey to the home dressing room there for the next manager!!
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Compass not a bad thing to go down.Let me tell you now if we do go down and by the look of things there is no way we are going to pick up more than maybe another one or two points.Then look to being a very old man before you ever see Villa playing top flight football again.Need a revamp alright and i mean ownership as well as management.
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Compass not a bad thing to go down.Let me tell you now if we do go down and by the look of things there is no way we are going to pick up more than maybe another one or two points.Then look to being a very old man before you ever see Villa playing top flight football again.Need a revamp alright and i mean ownership as well as management.
If we do go down, we would have to wave goodbye to any remaining quality players we do have at the club. We would be in a position where we would have to totally rebuild and I personally think we would struggle to make it back up first time. We haven't got the right type of players for that division and I genuinely think the side we have now would struggle against a number of the Championship teams as it is. Teams relegated from the Premiership have a very short window to get back up before the parachute payments run out and once those payments are gone, you are talking about major reductions in the amount of money coming in. Relegation would be a disaster for us and I can't believe it has got to the point where we are even discussing the possibility of us going down.
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The glimmer of light if we did get relegated would be that we have so much home grown talent you'd hope they'd want to stay and try and get us back up at the first attempt. They're probably not on mega money either reletively speaking.
This current squad cost bugger all reletively speaking - even taking into account injuries our squad is still packed full of home grown youth. I apprecaite that MON wasted an awful lot but we've also recouped alot in Young, Milner, Downing. We've also had value for money in Given freebie and Petrov whose fee has now been spread across 6 seasons in the first team.
For an established premiership side our current squad must be amongst the cheapest assembled.
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Given wasn't free was he?
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Given wasn't free was he?
No - £3m. Still a bargain mind.
That home results stat is offensive. I knew it had been shit sitting through the home games this season but I hadn't realised quite how bad it had been. AML is genuinely going to reside over the worst home season we've ever had - if thats not enough for him to get the boot then I'll be speechless.
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just think how many Villa fans haven't seen us win at home at all this season if they either missed those 4 games or left early as in the Fulham game, that stat confirms why I can't remember a worse season and I've been to most home games since 1967.
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by the look of things there is no way we are going to pick up more than maybe another one or two points
Just like there was no way we were going to get any points from our last two games?
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If we get relegated this year, not only should Mcleish be sacked on the spot, but I also think that for his own safety he should never ever return to the West Midlands ever again! Has a manager ever had a worse managerial record? If the worst comes to the worst how could he ever work in football again with a track record of relegating the city's two teams three times in total. Even if we don't go down his record is so grim, he literally has become the grim reaper of football. He's like a footballing plague! Sorry I'm ranting now! I just can't think of anything positive to say about him. Just want the pain to end!!!!
UTV.
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I wouldn't call given a bargain when he's earning 60k a week for 5 years. that's 15m outlay. thought his fee was 5m as well?
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We need 3 more points,
So assuming we lose at Man U, that 3 draws in the last 5 games.
McLeish must work even harder to instill the fear of losing in the team, so we do indeed lose just two of the last five.
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The thing that keeps bothering me (all year nearly) is I seem to remember that Blose were similarly looking safe or at least very unlikely to go down and had about the worse finish possible before they did go down.
That was probably their best team for a decade too-so it was quite a feat to get them relegated.
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Without a doubt, he will act all I am if we stay up on the final day. The reality is he should be given his marching orders within 20 minutes of the final whistle at carrow road. Paul Faulkner should be doing his homework now on the next man in.
Judging by how satisfied he looked after we scraped past Fulham the other week, then I am certain he will extremely pleased with himself if such events happen on the final day.
That is no where near as shocking as his thumbs up and punching the air after achieving the heroic home draw against Stoke.
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Without a doubt, he will act all I am if we stay up on the final day. The reality is he should be given his marching orders within 20 minutes of the final whistle at carrow road. Paul Faulkner should be doing his homework now on the next man in.
Judging by how satisfied he looked after we scraped past Fulham the other week, then I am certain he will extremely pleased with himself if such events happen on the final day.
That is no where near as shocking as his thumbs up and punching the air after achieving the heroic home draw against Stoke.
That was horrific.
His salute to the executive seats reminded me of a previous manager of ours.
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Without a doubt, he will act all I am if we stay up on the final day. The reality is he should be given his marching orders within 20 minutes of the final whistle at carrow road. Paul Faulkner should be doing his homework now on the next man in.
Judging by how satisfied he looked after we scraped past Fulham the other week, then I am certain he will extremely pleased with himself if such events happen on the final day.
That is no where near as shocking as his thumbs up and punching the air after achieving the heroic home draw against Stoke.
That was horrific.
His salute to the executive seats reminded me of a previous manager of ours.
Yep, it's nightmarish. I can't wait till we get beat by Charlton in the LC next season and McLeish bemoans how we can't compete with the likes of them.
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Without a doubt, he will act all I am if we stay up on the final day. The reality is he should be given his marching orders within 20 minutes of the final whistle at carrow road. Paul Faulkner should be doing his homework now on the next man in.
Judging by how satisfied he looked after we scraped past Fulham the other week, then I am certain he will extremely pleased with himself if such events happen on the final day.
That is no where near as shocking as his thumbs up and punching the air after achieving the heroic home draw against Stoke.
That was horrific.
His salute to the executive seats reminded me of a previous manager of ours.
Yes, I remember O'Leary doing it, but at least it was after a victory against The Dog shit.
As various posters have said, if we stay up he'll be telling us what a genius he is.
He really is a pisstaker of the first order.
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McLeish celebrating after a home draw with Stoke gave me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. Especially after we'd been winning. The utter ******.
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The thing that keeps bothering me (all year nearly) is I seem to remember that Blose were similarly looking safe or at least very unlikely to go down and had about the worse finish possible before they did go down.
That was probably their best team for a decade too-so it was quite a feat to get them relegated.
Yes, they didn't looklike they could go down. To be honest, being from Ireland the Blues rivalry doesn't mean a whole lot to me. I just assumed they were safe until near the end of the season. The first I realised that they could go down was when somebody posted a link to the clip of villa fans at the Emirates singing 'Going uo, going down'. I was amazed that they had got sucked in.
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It surely is a rare skill to take a good squad, capable of mid table, and relegate them! How much more rare and amazing to relegate two clubs with decent squads in successive years......, it is a quality much to be........................ despised! A bloke with any conscience would resign, but there is faint hope of that.
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Yep, it's nightmarish. I can't wait till we get beat by Charlton in the LC next season and McLeish bemoans how we can't compete with the likes of them.
Depends which Charlton, bet Bobby has still got a shot on him but if it's Jackie then he really is taking the piss if he thinks we can't compete with him.
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McLeish celebrating after a home draw with Stoke gave me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. Especially after we'd been winning. The utter c***.
I think he'll settle for a low scoring defeat at Old Trafford rather than chase an equaliser. Wonder if he'll celebrate that and give a thumbs up to his imaginary friend.
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Without a doubt, he will act all I am if we stay up on the final day. The reality is he should be given his marching orders within 20 minutes of the final whistle at carrow road. Paul Faulkner should be doing his homework now on the next man in.
Judging by how satisfied he looked after we scraped past Fulham the other week, then I am certain he will extremely pleased with himself if such events happen on the final day.
That is no where near as shocking as his thumbs up and punching the air after achieving the heroic home draw against Stoke.
That was horrific.
His salute to the executive seats reminded me of a previous manager of ours.
Even worse, before the game, I saw him turn to the exec seats and put his arms out wide in a "where the fuck are thay all" type way. I am probably wrong about this, but it seemed a very odd gesture to make before the game. I am also convinced that there was nowhere near the 30,000 at the Stoke game that the club are reporting. Perhaps they have claimed the season ticket holders as part of the crowd? VP was half empty.
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Perhaps they have. After all, it's been standard Premier League procedure since about 1996.
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Whats this McLeish doing thumbs up Inbetweeners style..
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Perhaps they have. After all, it's been standard Premier League procedure since about 1996.
Why do so many on here excitingly claim our crowds are lower than announced?
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Perhaps they have. After all, it's been standard Premier League procedure since about 1996.
Why do so many on here excitingly claim our crowds are lower than announced?
I don't konw why people get so excited about it, but they're right, they are always lower than announced.
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Perhaps they have. After all, it's been standard Premier League procedure since about 1996.
Why do so many on here excitingly claim our crowds are lower than announced?
I don't konw why people get so excited about it, but they're right, they are always lower than announced.
True, but it just irritates me that some fans seem to wallow in it.
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Funny how Sheff Wed's always get mentioned when people talk about Villa getting relegated, something that happened donkey's years ago, yet Newcasle would be far more appropriate comparison,
As for all that shit about waiting till your old and grey before we will see Villa in the top flight again is just garbage
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Funny how Sheff Wed's always get mentioned when people talk about Villa getting relegated, something that happened donkey's years ago, yet Newcasle would be far more appropriate comparison,
As for all that shit about waiting till your old and grey before we will see Villa in the top flight again is just garbage
Very true. I still don't want to take a chance though.
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just think how many Villa fans haven't seen us win at home at all this season if they either missed those 4 games or left early as in the Fulham game, that stat confirms why I can't remember a worse season and I've been to most home games since 1967.
The bloke who sits next to me in Lower Holte was bought a season ticket by his other half, first one since 1982, he complained at the last match he hasnt seen us win at home this season and he has only missed a few matches.
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Perhaps they have. After all, it's been standard Premier League procedure since about 1996.
Why do so many on here excitingly claim our crowds are lower than announced?
I don't konw why people get so excited about it, but they're right, they are always lower than announced.
True, but it just irritates me that some fans seem to wallow in it.
Arsenal always seem to be the club where it is really noticeable - in their bad spell this season, their non-showing-up season ticket holders were really obvious.
Yes, though, it's insane to wallow in it, if that's what people are doing. Hopefully the main thing that will be happening is that the club will notice them, and think about what the reasons are.
They also (obv) have figures to hand about the number of season ticket holders who are missing games, which in turn should give them an idea of how hard they're going to have to work to shift them this summer.
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Perhaps they have. After all, it's been standard Premier League procedure since about 1996.
Why do so many on here excitingly claim our crowds are lower than announced?
I don't konw why people get so excited about it, but they're right, they are always lower than announced.
True, but it just irritates me that some fans seem to wallow in it.
Arsenal always seem to be the club where it is really noticeable - in their bad spell this season, their non-showing-up season ticket holders were really obvious.
Yes, though, it's insane to wallow in it, if that's what people are doing. Hopefully the main thing that will be happening is that the club will notice them, and think about what the reasons are.
They also (obv) have figures to hand about the number of season ticket holders who are missing games, which in turn should give them an idea of how hard they're going to have to work to shift them this summer.
The only way they'll get fans back on their side is to spend big money in the summer. I'm clinging onto the Collymore tweet from last week for a bit of hope. In fact I've got a death grip on it.
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To be honest, I'm not even entirely sure that much would be enough to make a real difference.
Obviously, it'd feel better when we started signing them, but at the moment it's all a bit depressing.
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To be honest, I'm not even entirely sure that much would be enough to make a real difference.
Obviously, it'd feel better when we started signing them, but at the moment it's all a bit depressing.
I haven't felt this low about Villa since '87, and I'm usually one of the most optimistic of Villa fans. Hopefully this season has frightened the life out of Lerner as much as its frightened the life out of the rest of us. He has to invest or we will continue to decline.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_McLeish
Did you know that McLeish was given his first team debut in 1978 by non other than Billy McNeill. Bad omen?
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Perhaps they have. After all, it's been standard Premier League procedure since about 1996.
Why do so many on here excitingly claim our crowds are lower than announced?
I don't konw why people get so excited about it, but they're right, they are always lower than announced.
True, but it just irritates me that some fans seem to wallow in it.
Arsenal always seem to be the club where it is really noticeable - in their bad spell this season, their non-showing-up season ticket holders were really obvious.
Yes, though, it's insane to wallow in it, if that's what people are doing. Hopefully the main thing that will be happening is that the club will notice them, and think about what the reasons are.
They also (obv) have figures to hand about the number of season ticket holders who are missing games, which in turn should give them an idea of how hard they're going to have to work to shift them this summer.
The only way they'll get fans back on their side is to spend big money in the summer. I'm clinging onto the Collymore tweet from last week for a bit of hope. In fact I've got a death grip on it.
What did he say?
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Perhaps they have. After all, it's been standard Premier League procedure since about 1996.
Why do so many on here excitingly claim our crowds are lower than announced?
For the same reason that it's now becoming obvious that some people want us to lose and seem awfully disappointed if we get a point instead.
Misery hunters!
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I don't think hardly anyone wants us to lose. Also you think that point against Stoke was a good result? The Liverpool one fair enough.
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Perhaps they have. After all, it's been standard Premier League procedure since about 1996.
Why do so many on here excitingly claim our crowds are lower than announced?
For the same reason that it's now becoming obvious that some people want us to lose and seem awfully disappointed if we get a point instead.
Misery hunters!
I think, in the same way Larry David talks of self-hating Jews, there are many out there who are self-hating Villa fans.
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Perhaps they have. After all, it's been standard Premier League procedure since about 1996.
Why do so many on here excitingly claim our crowds are lower than announced?
For the same reason that it's now becoming obvious that some people want us to lose and seem awfully disappointed if we get a point instead.
Misery hunters!
I have to say, Dave, I think this "some of us want us to lose and are disappointed if we get a point" is one of the dafter theories on here.
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Perhaps they have. After all, it's been standard Premier League procedure since about 1996.
Why do so many on here excitingly claim our crowds are lower than announced?
For the same reason that it's now becoming obvious that some people want us to lose and seem awfully disappointed if we get a point instead.
Misery hunters!
I think, in the same way Larry David talks of self-hating Jews, there are many out there who are self-hating Villa fans.
And Jackthevillain - a Jew hating self hating Villa fan.
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I have to say, Dave, I think this "some of us want us to lose and are disappointed if we get a point" is one of the dafter theories on here.
I don't, I genuinely believe there are Villa fans on here who want us to lose. And you can sense the disappointment in the posts they make when we don't.
It's probably a combination of those who want McLeish out at any cost and will take a run of defeats if that aim is achieved and those who just want their abject misery-arsed pessimism to be proved right.
Oh, and PaulW, no I didn't think Stoke was a good result, but it was one point more than a considerable percentage of posters on here thought we'd get.
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Personally speaking I want Villa to win every game. However under Mcleish I expect us to lose much more often than I expect us to win. His negative style is dragging the club down. I'll be delighted if Randy sees sense and he goes in the summer. I don't want us to lose in the meantime though.
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I want us to win every game, I get disappointed if we lose and it's not like it's a cheap thing to watch.
I don't get freebie tickets from the club.
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The only time i've ever remotely wanted us to lose was the tail end of 86/87. It was pretty obvious we were going down and part of me just wanted to be put of my misery. Even then though, deep down I kept hoping we'd win, bastards teased me with that West Ham game.
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I think there are one or two here. They either misguidedly think relegation would be good for us and/or they are determined to show how right they are. Like that chap who is demanding explanations from everyone who doesn't think we're going to get relegated (which includes me) if we do go down.
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I want us to win every game, I get disappointed if we lose and it's not like it's a cheap thing to watch.
I don't get freebie tickets from the club.
I imagine that the pain of watching Villa this season could be dulled somewhat by a glass or two of free champagne.
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I want us to win every game, I get disappointed if we lose and it's not like it's a cheap thing to watch.
I don't get freebie tickets from the club.
I imagine that the pain of watching Villa this season could be dulled somewhat by a glass or two of free champagne.
A meal or two would have helped.
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After today`s results I think the teams below us now need snookers to stay up!
Just want this season of misery to be over now quite frankly
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After today`s results I think the teams below us now need snookers to stay up!
Just want this season of misery to be over now quite frankly
What an absolute waste of a year.
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It's almost a free game for us now so if I was manager i'd just send us out to close the mancs down fast and attack them as much as possible. Bet we don't though.
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It's almost a free game for us now so if I was manager i'd just send us out to close the mancs down fast and attack them as much as possible. Bet we don't though.
Indeed, keep these youngsters in too as it is all part of an education that may reap benefits longer term and is about the only possible ray of sunshine to hold onto from this godawful season
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Gabby to bag the winner tomorrow.
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Like that chap who is demanding explanations from everyone who doesn't think we're going to get relegated (which includes me) if we do go down.
To be fair, I think we will be relegated if we go down.
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If we go down we are certainties to be relegated, and I hereby demand an explanation from everyone who thinks we won't be.
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After today`s results I think the teams below us now need snookers to stay up!
Just want this season of misery to be over now quite frankly
dont worry we have experts on here that can produce scenarios that can make it look like we are still sure things for relegation
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I think there are people who can see that the confidence of some that we were practically safe is/was perhaps premature. It's not a case of pessimism or wanting Villa to lose, it's merely pointing out the bald fact that the current manager has an appalling record regarding relegation and that he managed to snatch relegation last season from a position where it was almost impossible for them to go down. With almost anyone else in charge, I'd share the relative confidence about our position. But not with this manager. The results today have helped a lot though.
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After today`s results I think the teams below us now need snookers to stay up!
Just want this season of misery to be over now quite frankly
dont worry we have experts on here that can produce scenarios that can make it look like we are still sure things for relegation
True - I have not worked out the mathematical probability - sorry to get everybody`s hopes up
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I think today may have killed off Blackburn. There is no way they will get more than 7 points now, so they are doomed for me. Wigan, Bolton and QPR can still go past us though. We are still 3 points off safe for me. And if we end up under 40, Eck should really do the decent thing.
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Blackburn are 7 points behind with a GD that is 19 worse than us. With 4 games left and Yakubu going off injured today I just cannot see them catching us now.
Wolves can only catch us if they win every game, we lose every game and there is a 30 goal swing.
To me that is 2 that won't be catching us. Nearly safe now, and fuck me, what a depressing sentence to have to write.
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I think not even McLeish can take us down from here.
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I think not even McLeish can take us down from here.
"Nothing can go wrong now"
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Qpr still have to play chelsea, spurs and man city as well as stoke so i think we are nearly safe with wolves and blackburn both just about buried.
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Blackburn looked doomed...need 9 points from 12 to catch us...including Spurs away and Chelsea away. That's one almost ticked off.
QPR need 2 wins from 4 to catch us...from Spurs, Chelsea, Stoke & Man City.
Bolton will probably need to beat us to stand a chance...
Wolves - Gone
I know you all know this already but it makes me feel better when I actually see my thoughts in print...
I think Wigan will stay...then we should have a look at nicking thier manager...or Lambert.
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If we go down we are certainties to be relegated, and I hereby demand an explanation from everyone who thinks we won't be.
There's always the possibility of a reprieve if a club goes into administration.
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It's almost a free game for us now so if I was manager i'd just send us out to close the mancs down fast and attack them as much as possible. Bet we don't though.
Would love to see him take the bloody reigns off and let the kids loose. He won't.
It's probably not that he can't, I just think he doesn't know how to play that way.
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Without a doubt it looks like results are going our way, I was seriously concerned if QPR and Blackburn won today we would be right up against it, that didn't happen, so this is a golden chance to get something v Man Utd.
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Two good results today. Even if as expected we lose tomorrow, we are still slightly safer than before the weekend games started.
Then we have Sunderland. Now I reckon our esteemed manager will take encouragement from their result today. I mean if Wolves can take a point off Sunderland then we stand a chance of a point too.
The Mcleish mantra is `A little point here and an odd point there keeps Villa in the Premier`.
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Two good results today. Even if as expected we lose tomorrow, we are still slightly safer than before the weekend games started.
Then we have Sunderland. Now I reckon our esteemed manager will take encouragement from their result today. I mean if Wolves can take a point off Sunderland then we stand a chance of a point too.
The Mcleish mantra is `A little point here and an odd point there keeps Villa in the Premier`.
Yeah, Agreed, it looks like the Sunderland players have already gone on holiday
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I'd take a point against the Mackems.
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Blackburn looked doomed...need 9 points from 12 to catch us.
They don't need to catch us to avoid relegation...just need to do better than 2 out of 3 from Bolton, Wigan and QPR.
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Now I reckon our esteemed manager will take encouragement from their result today.
The Mcleish mantra is `A little point here and an odd point there keeps Villa in the Premier`.
He should be ashamed that after 32 games he is even looking at results like today's.
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Blackburn looked doomed...need 9 points from 12 to catch us.
They don't need to catch us to avoid relegation...just need to do better than 2 out of 3 from Bolton, Wigan and QPR.
Yes..was just commenting on our relegation possibilities though (and the fact that they looked doomed)..
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I think not even McLeish can take us down from here.
Would you bet your house on that?
We will not be safe till the points are in the bag.
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When we look like going down it scares the shit out of me but when we look like staying up that scares the shit out of me too because McLeish's tenure will be regarded a success in the face of fans who never got off his back, an owner who never gave him any money and injuries and illness which no not affect other clubs.
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The Mcleish mantra is `A little point here and an odd point there keeps Villa in the Premier`.
Post of the day
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I think not even McLeish can take us down from here.
Would you bet your house on that?
We will not be safe till the points are in the bag.
Yes Fergal, I would.
What would you bet on us going down?
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Does anyone think we have any chance of a point against United tomorrow? Not to be negative but we've always struggled against them and with all the injuries etc. I think we might get a hammering to be honest.
(I'm new to the forum by the way, sorry such a negative first post)
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If you want to be negative you've come to the right place ;) By the standards of recent posts on here that one borders on happy clapping.
Very few people on here seem to fancy us for anything other than a drubbing tomorrow.
Welcome BTW.
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Well a good result re QPR. Blackburn i'd already discounted catching us, so just need arsenal to do the bis with Wigan and things are looking up however much of a tanking we get at United
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Does anyone think we have any chance of a point against United tomorrow?
No
Not to be negative but we've always struggled against them and with all the injuries etc. I think we might get a hammering to be honest.
Me too
(I'm new to the forum by the way, sorry such a negative first post)
Welcome
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I reckon we'll stop up but with less points than blues got last season.
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It's almost a free game for us now so if I was manager i'd just send us out to close the mancs down fast and attack them as much as possible. Bet we don't though.
Would love to see him take the bloody reigns off and let the kids loose. He won't.
It's probably not that he can't, I just think he doesn't know how to play that way.
I think so too. Can't see the manager going for a win at all. He'll go for the draw or low scoring defeat.
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From what I know and what my Dad told me, we have been relegated 5 times in our history. 4 times to what is now the Championship and once to the old Third Division. I have witnessed 3 of them. I was wondering though - Is this heading to be our worst ever season for home wins and maybe points gained at home. Any Stattos out there know the answer ? Is our manager about to secure a new record or am I being too harsh?
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From what I know and what my Dad told me, we have been relegated 5 times in our history. 4 times to what is now the Championship and once to the old Third Division. I have witnessed 3 of them. I was wondering though - Is this heading to be our worst ever season for home wins and maybe points gained at home. Any Stattos out there know the answer ? Is our manager about to secure a new record or am I being too harsh?
http://astonvilla-views.com/2012/04/11/mcleish-and-the-worse-home-record-in-138-years-avfc/
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Thanks for that Ez. So it could easily be our worst ever season.
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Worst ever since football was invented in 1992, you mean?
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Yes sorry I was forgetting that the previous 100 years plus doesn't count anymore.
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I think not even McLeish can take us down from here.
Would you bet your house on that?
We will not be safe till the points are in the bag.
i would,
i would bet the lot House,Car,Savings,Wife, if i could get even money i'd put it all on and still sleep a night
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I
Thanks for that Ez. So it could easily be our worst ever season.
I can tell you - just put it on match thread in error- that if we lose today we will have the lowest points after 33 games (35) since the Chinese invented the game in '92.
Looking at wins home or away, shots on, shots off stats they are almost as bad. As for corners for and against, set pieces or headed goals well , something ain't right. Especially given the uncanny comparison with SHA from last year. Can't be coincidence so only one person to blame and there is the proof.
He will set us up today in damage limitation mode again. Midfield will be so deep they will need mining helmets and davy lamps.
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Midfield will be so deep they will need mining helmets and davy lamps.
Very good.
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....just put it on match thread....
Well, we can blame Simba for the loss now then.
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I Thanks for that Ez. So it could easily be our worst ever season.
I can tell you - just put it on match thread in error- that if we lose today we will have the lowest points after 33 games (35) since the Chinese invented the game in '92.
Looking at wins home or away, shots on, shots off stats they are almost as bad. As for corners for and against, set pieces or headed goals well , something ain't right. Especially given the uncanny comparison with SHA from last year. Can't be coincidence so only one person to blame and there is the proof.
He will set us up today in damage limitation mode again. Midfield will be so deep they will need mining helmets and davy lamps.
I think our lowest points in the Premiership is 42. So McLoose can set a new record this season. >:( :(
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Nailed on.
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Midfield will be so deep they will need mining helmets and davy lamps.
Very good.
Blimey a compliment from Lee? Nice to meet you before the Chelsea game. P
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I'm not all bad. You too.
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I Thanks for that Ez. So it could easily be our worst ever season.
I can tell you - just put it on match thread in error- that if we lose today we will have the lowest points after 33 games (35) since the Chinese invented the game in '92.
Looking at wins home or away, shots on, shots off stats they are almost as bad. As for corners for and against, set pieces or headed goals well , something ain't right. Especially given the uncanny comparison with SHA from last year. Can't be coincidence so only one person to blame and there is the proof.
He will set us up today in damage limitation mode again. Midfield will be so deep they will need mining helmets and davy lamps.
When the kids were getting themselves on SSN running up and down Trinity Road with placards, lots of us said we were disappointed but maybe he would not make the same mistakes and do his job with the same fatalism he did at Blues.
Since then he has done *exactly* what we feared he would. Exactly.
The result is that in almost every way we mirror Blues last season, and it is sucking every ounce of enthusiasm out of the club. It has just become all so fucking joyless, austere and miserable. It isn't meant to be like that. It is meant to be fun.
If they stick with this bloke, they are insane. People have enough austerity infused misery in their day to day lives without forking out hundreds of pounds for more of it in their hobby.
There's an obvious argument that we are Villa fans, we stick with the team whether they lose or not, but the situation with McLeish is that very fibre and bone in his body orientates him to this style of football.
This isn't him not getting the performances or results he wants, this is the way he sends his teams out as his previous history shows.
He honestly is the first manager I think I have ever seen who looks like he doesn't *want* to win games. It really is that bad.
The pace at which thus club has gone backwards this year is staggering. He many of us can say, hand on heart, that if we were not Villa fans, we wouldn't want us to get relegated this season?
I've seen plenty of shit Villa sides in 35 odd years watching us, but I genuinely can not remember ever feeling embarrassed of what my club has become until now, and for that, I hate what this man is turning us into, and I pity Lerner for being so clueless as to not realise it is happening..
Pathetic.
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I Thanks for that Ez. So it could easily be our worst ever season.
I can tell you - just put it on match thread in error- that if we lose today we will have the lowest points after 33 games (35) since the Chinese invented the game in '92.
Looking at wins home or away, shots on, shots off stats they are almost as bad. As for corners for and against, set pieces or headed goals well , something ain't right. Especially given the uncanny comparison with SHA from last year. Can't be coincidence so only one person to blame and there is the proof.
He will set us up today in damage limitation mode again. Midfield will be so deep they will need mining helmets and davy lamps.
When the kids were getting themselves on SSN running up and down Trinity Road with placards, lots of us said we were disappointed but maybe he would not make the same mistakes and do his job with the same fatalism he did at Blues.
Since then he has done *exactly* what we feared he would. Exactly.
The result is that in almost every way we mirror Blues last season, and it is sucking every ounce of enthusiasm out of the club. It has just become all so fucking joyless, austere and miserable. It isn't meant to be like that. It is meant to be fun.
If they stick with this bloke, they are insane. People have enough austerity infused misery in their day to day lives without forking out hundreds of pounds for more of it in their hobby.
There's an obvious argument that we are Villa fans, we stick with the team whether they lose or not, but the situation with McLeish is that very fibre and bone in his body orientates him to this style of football.
This isn't him not getting the performances or results he wants, this is the way he sends his teams out as his previous history shows.
He honestly is the first manager I think I have ever seen who looks like he doesn't *want* to win games. It really is that bad.
The pace at which thus club has gone backwards this year is staggering. He many of us can say, hand on heart, that if we were not Villa fans, we wouldn't want us to get relegated this season?
I've seen plenty of shit Villa sides in 35 odd years watching us, but I genuinely can not remember ever feeling embarrassed of what my club has become until now, and for that, I hate what thus man is turning us into, and I pity Lerner for being so clueless as to not realise how things are going.
Pathetic.
All of this....
No idea where we go, yes in the cold light of morning the blood won't be running so high and I will probably think, well OK at least statistically we will stay up, the point is we don't deserve to stay up, we are simply very very poor, we can't carry on like this something has to give and soon.
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Goal difference doesn't look so great now.
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I Thanks for that Ez. So it could easily be our worst ever season.
I can tell you - just put it on match thread in error- that if we lose today we will have the lowest points after 33 games (35) since the Chinese invented the game in '92.
Looking at wins home or away, shots on, shots off stats they are almost as bad. As for corners for and against, set pieces or headed goals well , something ain't right. Especially given the uncanny comparison with SHA from last year. Can't be coincidence so only one person to blame and there is the proof.
He will set us up today in damage limitation mode again. Midfield will be so deep they will need mining helmets and davy lamps.
When the kids were getting themselves on SSN running up and down Trinity Road with placards, lots of us said we were disappointed but maybe he would not make the same mistakes and do his job with the same fatalism he did at Blues.
Since then he has done *exactly* what we feared he would. Exactly.
The result is that in almost every way we mirror Blues last season, and it is sucking every ounce of enthusiasm out of the club. It has just become all so fucking joyless, austere and miserable. It isn't meant to be like that. It is meant to be fun.
If they stick with this bloke, they are insane. People have enough austerity infused misery in their day to day lives without forking out hundreds of pounds for more of it in their hobby.
There's an obvious argument that we are Villa fans, we stick with the team whether they lose or not, but the situation with McLeish is that very fibre and bone in his body orientates him to this style of football.
This isn't him not getting the performances or results he wants, this is the way he sends his teams out as his previous history shows.
He honestly is the first manager I think I have ever seen who looks like he doesn't *want* to win games. It really is that bad.
The pace at which thus club has gone backwards this year is staggering. He many of us can say, hand on heart, that if we were not Villa fans, we wouldn't want us to get relegated this season?
I've seen plenty of shit Villa sides in 35 odd years watching us, but I genuinely can not remember ever feeling embarrassed of what my club has become until now, and for that, I hate what this man is turning us into, and I pity Lerner for being so clueless as to not realise it is happening..
Pathetic.
Completely agree. If I weren't a Villa fan, I'd definitely want us down.
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If this season had another 12 games to go we would be dead certs for relegation. We are on some kind of weird, nightmarish downward spiral.
IF Bolton beat us I think we'll go.
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As someone on here said, its like a nightmare you can't wake up from.
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1 win in 12. I repeat 1 win in 12. That stat alone should get him the sack.
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1 win in 12. I repeat 1 win in 12. That stat alone should get him the sack.
It should but it won't Randy won't give a shit about today either He will have been expecting it He's probably written a letter of congratulations to Sir Alex
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1 win in 12. I repeat 1 win in 12. That stat alone should get him the sack.
We are a laughing stock. And worse still, a soft touch. Yet the powers that be seem perfectly happy to let it continue...what a pitiful situation.
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1 win in 12. I repeat 1 win in 12. That stat alone should get him the sack.
MON won 1 in 13 league games which ended up at 2 in 19 at one stage in his first season. SGT MK1 won 3 in 22.
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1 win in 12. I repeat 1 win in 12. That stat alone should get him the sack.
MON won 1 in 13 league games which ended up at 2 in 19 at one stage in his first season. SGT MK1 won 3 in 22.
Yep but for the former, it never felt so hopeless. Our manager celebrated a draw against Stoke, when we had been winning. The win in this run was also extremely fortunate.
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1 win in 12. I repeat 1 win in 12. That stat alone should get him the sack.
MON won 1 in 13 league games which ended up at 2 in 19 at one stage in his first season. SGT MK1 won 3 in 22.
Yep but for the former, it never felt so hopeless. Our manager celebrated a draw against Stoke, when we had been winning. The win in this run was also extremely fortunate.
My point is, the stat alone isn't a sackable offense as we've had worse runs under better managers who turned things round.
What he did against Stoke is a different argument to the run we're on.
He shouldn't be sacked because of the run, but because there is zero evidence he can turn it round.
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1 win in 12. I repeat 1 win in 12. That stat alone should get him the sack.
MON won 1 in 13 league games which ended up at 2 in 19 at one stage in his first season. SGT MK1 won 3 in 22.
Yep but for the former, it never felt so hopeless. Our manager celebrated a draw against Stoke, when we had been winning. The win in this run was also extremely fortunate.
My point is, the stat alone isn't a sackable offense as we've had worse runs under better managers who turned things round.
What he did against Stoke is a different argument to the run we're on.
He shouldn't be sacked because of the run, but because there is zero evidence he can turn it round.
Fair enough, essentially everything he has done in job is justification for the sack.
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The result is that in almost every way we mirror Blues last season, and it is sucking every ounce of enthusiasm out of the club. It has just become all so fucking joyless, austere and miserable. It isn't meant to be like that. It is meant to be fun.
I agree with all of what you said Paulie but I think this point is particularly relevant and salient. Over the course of the last ten months, ever piece of positivity I have been able to cling on to has been promptly smashed to smithereens by the actions of the club management. There's no enjoyment, there's no surprises. It's just been predictably shit. Often even shitter than I predicted. I can't even get angry today over what happened. It's what I expected. As you say supporting Villa is meant to be fun, it's a hobby, albeit a costly one. Villa under McLeish is roughly as enjoyable as spending your Saturday afternoon at the dentist receiving root canal work. Only with root canal work you know you only have to suffer it once and you know there is a clearly defined end point. The man is like a vampire, he has sucked all the enjoyment and positivity out of the club.
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Surely even if some of this part of the new order, it was never meant to be this bad? In their worst case scenario we are a mid table team getting our house in order. Surely, even for Faulkner and Randy it was never meant to go shit shaped so soon. They must have expected a decline, but to this extent? No way. I cannot believe they don't talk and say to each other "we didn't buy into this". This is now bleeding on a level that almost deems the patient dead. We are critical and getting worse.
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What will it take for Blandy Lerner to give him the bullet?
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We have had Zombie Banks, Zombie Companies and now we Aston Villa are the Zombie football Club.
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What will it take for Blandy Lerner to give him the bullet?
A pair of bollocks
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Well perhaps The Zombies will buy us.
But I dont believe in Miracles!!
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Well perhaps The Zombies will buy us.
Is it the time of the season to be sold?
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The Oracle has spoken.
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Well perhaps The Zombies will buy us.
Is it the time of the season to be sold?
Zombies dont buy anything they are dead but just keep walking.
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If almost everyone agrees he should go, the discussion turns towards 'how do we get him out effectively?'.
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If almost everyone agrees he should go, the discussion turns towards 'how do we get him out effectively?'.
We could have a Poll ;)
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If almost everyone agrees he should go, the discussion turns towards 'how do we get him out effectively?'.
We could have a Poll ;)
or an Orange Dot
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...or a prayer mat.
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I think not even McLeish can take us down from here.
Would you bet your house on that?
We will not be safe till the points are in the bag.
I take back my words. I think he can!
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18 th in the form table and I think that is where we will finish We will slip into the bottom 3 in the dying minutes on the last day of the season just like Blues did last year
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18 th in the form guide and I think that is where we will finish We will slip into the bottom 3 in the dying minutes on the last day of the season just like Blues did last year
Horrifying thought..
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If you plonked us into the Conference now, we'd struggle.
Hell my local club Marlow is currently firmly rooted to the bottom of the Stefan Moore division (it's official name I believe) and they'd give us a good game at the moment I think.
Why is McLeish not underachieving at a pub side somewhere?
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We are a joke- the owner,ceo and manager along with most of the playing staff are an embarrassment! For god sake randy please go and take your clowns with you!
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I can only echo Paulie's sentiments. I've seen a fair bit of disappointment as a Villa fan over the years, but this has got to be my lowest point yet. It's just so miserable, so devoid of optimism, it's appalling. I know the result and the performance before the game even starts. We offer nothing; there's no spark, no spirit, no confidence, seemingly no game plan. It's humiliating seeing us like this. I can't even get angry about it now, I've just about given up.
Mind you, I did enjoy McLeish's assessment of Paul Scholes' performance after the game yesterday. Great stuff.
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We are a joke- the owner,ceo and manager along with most of the playing staff are an embarrassment! For god sake randy please go and take your clowns with you!
how many times have people got to say this, he cant just go, he owns the club ffs
its not like MON who can just walk out or even Mcleish who can be sacked,
he cant go anywhere untill he has a buyer and that is even if he wants to sell, he might be trying we dont know, but to just say 'Randy please go' is just a bit rediculous
as i have said before, a lot of this crap will be forgotten with the appointment of a decent manager one who takes us forward and more importantly gives us all something to believe in again
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The difference between this era and other low ebs in our recent past is there is a real lack of positives. Only the handful of potential young players coming through is anything ersembling a positive. And, let's face it, just because a young player has potential doesn't mean he will actually suceed in being a top class player.
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If we stay up it will be in spite of him not because of him
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Lerner can decide to sell up if he so wishes and i hope he does , the longer he waits the less he will get for the club as he is running us into the ground- villa a year ago would have been a much more attractive proposition to a buyer than now.
I would see a statement from lerner that he looking to sell as a huge positive right now as the longer he remains the worse it will become.
He gave it his best shot and came close but if he no longer can afford to compete its time to hand over the reigns .
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Lerner can decide to sell up if he so wishes and i hope he does , the longer he waits the less he will get for the club as he is running us into the ground- villa a year ago would have been a much more attractive proposition to a buyer than now.
I would see a statement from lerner that he looking to sell as a huge positive right now as the longer he remains the worse it will become.
He gave it his best shot and came close but if he no longer can afford to compete its time to hand over the reigns .
Lerner has invested in the club both with players and infrastructure, and it's the latter that will interest potential buyers as much as the staff at the club, players can be bought and sold, but the real assets are the properties.
I agree we would have looked more attractive when finishing sixth three years running, but I don't think Randy would have wanted to sell then as we looked like we might make the top four. Unfortunately, the arabs joined the game and it all went tits up even for a lesser billionaire.
I think Randy has the club's interests at heart, but his personal circumstances probably haven't helped plus the economic situation. If he sells, we will probably not have an owner who will see VP as anything more than a business opportunity.
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Apologies if already posted....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/apr/16/five-things-football-this-weekend
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Apologies if already posted....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/apr/16/five-things-football-this-weekend
Bloody hell, that is very damning, there is some real strong language in there.
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Lerner has invested in the club both with players and infrastructure, and it's the latter that will interest potential buyers as much as the staff at the club, players can be bought and sold, but the real assets are the properties.
I think Randy has the club's interests at heart, but his personal circumstances probably haven't helped plus the economic situation. If he sells, we will probably not have an owner who will see VP as anything more than a business opportunity.
Most of the decent saleable players have now left the club, and we're still in an insolvent position. The only chance we'd have of a sale now is if Lerner would take a big hit on the money his trust has lent the club.
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Apologies if already posted....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/apr/16/five-things-football-this-weekend
Crikey.
Although "another season of nothingness"? If our last 10 years or so have been nothingness, then god knows what that says about the rest of the league, given that we finished sixth in four of them.
Aston Villa are a sad sight these days – tired, directionless, timid, miserably shambling through another season of nothingness. What enjoyment is to be had on the Villa Park terraces these days? They are a club that seem overworked, huffing and puffing just to tread water in the Premier League, running to stand still. They need to recharge their batteries, to find some momentum, to stop constantly fire-fighting and find a way to move forward as a club.
What better way to do that than with a year or two (or more) in the Championship? Plenty of clubs have found relegation to have a restorative effect. Norwich are probably the best example. Between 2005 and 2009 the Canaries were going nowhere fast, scratching around in the bottom half of the Championship, good enough to stay up but only just. It took relegation to League One in 2009 and the appointment of Paul Lambert after a disastrous start to that season in the third tier to turn the club around.
Instead of grubbing around for points – the club won only 56 league games in four seasons from 2004-05 – they were able to strip things down, start again and build momentum, momentum that stays with them today. If the Canaries had somehow cobbled together enough points to stay up over the final few weeks of the 2008-09 season they would not be in the position they are today. Newcastle are another who have bounced back from the drop in style.
Alex McLeish – who would almost certainly be replaced in the event of relegation, another bonus for Villa fans – has a very young squad at his disposal, a talented one that is not yet in full maturity. Ciaran Clark, Nathan Baker, Chris Herd, Gary Gardner, Samir Carruthers and even Andreas Weimann, Barry Bannan and Marc Albrighton could benefit from finding their feet in the professional game at the lower level, rather than learning the hard way in the top flight. Indeed the suspicion is that the only reason several of those players are not on loan outside the Premier League is the paucity of McLeish's squad.
One step back to take two steps forward? It can be painful but it might just be fun. And Villa fans have not had much of that this season
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Apologies if already posted....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/apr/16/five-things-football-this-weekend
Not havin that at all! Going down will ruin us. Staying in the Prem is key even if it means finishing mid table for the next few years
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Apologies if already posted....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/apr/16/five-things-football-this-weekend
Not havin that at all! Going down will ruin us. Staying in the Prem is key even if it means finishing mid table for the next few years
Quite true.
Yes, we need a re-think and a bit of a clear out, but we can just as easily do that in the PL as the Championship.
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Lerner has invested in the club both with players and infrastructure, and it's the latter that will interest potential buyers as much as the staff at the club, players can be bought and sold, but the real assets are the properties.
I think Randy has the club's interests at heart, but his personal circumstances probably haven't helped plus the economic situation. If he sells, we will probably not have an owner who will see VP as anything more than a business opportunity.
Most of the decent saleable players have now left the club, and we're still in an insolvent position. The only chance we'd have of a sale now is if Lerner would take a big hit on the money his trust has lent the club.
I think a business investor rather than a football investor might take a different view.
I didn't suggest we'd make much income from selling our dead legs, but taking over Villa and a willingness to provide a player budget could make a difference and if Villa was bought at the right price could turn a future profit. I doubt we'll find any buyer who would buy as a football fan.
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Been said before but the very worst scenario (and IMO the most likely) is that we are relegated and AM stays.
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We are a joke- the owner,ceo and manager along with most of the playing staff are an embarrassment! For god sake randy please go and take your clowns with you!
Randy has been very good for this club so calling for his head after all the money he's put in is a shortsighted.
He's made an absolute howler in appointing McLeish and that's something he's going to have to rectify. He's not the first chairman to get a managerial appointment wrong.
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We are a joke- the owner,ceo and manager along with most of the playing staff are an embarrassment! For god sake randy please go and take your clowns with you!
How tempting we must be for possibly future investors if our fans react like this to an owner who's had one bad season and has pumped millions into the club.... Why they'll be positively kicking the door in to invest into our grateful fanbase.
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We are a joke- the owner,ceo and manager along with most of the playing staff are an embarrassment! For god sake randy please go and take your clowns with you!
Randy has been very good for this club so calling for his head after all the money he's put in is a shortsighted.
He's made an absolute howler in appointing McLeish and that's something he's going to have to rectify. He's not the first chairman to get a managerial appointment wrong.
Short-sighted is thinking that blowing a load of money makes a good chairman. That money has all been wasted and has set us back years. Lerner has been a disaster.
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We are a joke- the owner,ceo and manager along with most of the playing staff are an embarrassment! For god sake randy please go and take your clowns with you!
Randy has been very good for this club so calling for his head after all the money he's put in is a shortsighted.
He's made an absolute howler in appointing McLeish and that's something he's going to have to rectify. He's not the first chairman to get a managerial appointment wrong.
Short-sighted is thinking that blowing a load of money makes a good chairman. That money has all been wasted and has set us back years. Lerner has been a disaster.
I bet you werent calling him a disaster when he took us over from Doug and started splashing the cash?
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We are a joke- the owner,ceo and manager along with most of the playing staff are an embarrassment! For god sake randy please go and take your clowns with you!
Randy has been very good for this club so calling for his head after all the money he's put in is a shortsighted.
He's made an absolute howler in appointing McLeish and that's something he's going to have to rectify. He's not the first chairman to get a managerial appointment wrong.
Short-sighted is thinking that blowing a load of money makes a good chairman. That money has all been wasted and has set us back years. Lerner has been a disaster.
Agreed risso, lerner had good intentions and made a promising start but his last 2 years at the helm have been shambolic in the extreme- he should be judged on the present not the past.
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We are a joke- the owner,ceo and manager along with most of the playing staff are an embarrassment! For god sake randy please go and take your clowns with you!
Randy has been very good for this club so calling for his head after all the money he's put in is a shortsighted.
He's made an absolute howler in appointing McLeish and that's something he's going to have to rectify. He's not the first chairman to get a managerial appointment wrong.
Lerner has been a disaster.
We could have had Ray Ranson. Which would you have prefered?
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Oh clampy you old drama queen!
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Oh clampy you old drama queen!
Coming from someone who's answer to everything is 'get rid'.
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Oh clampy you old drama queen!
Coming from someone who's answer to everything is 'get rid'.
So you are happy with lerner and the state of our club?
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We are a joke- the owner,ceo and manager along with most of the playing staff are an embarrassment! For god sake randy please go and take your clowns with you!
Randy has been very good for this club so calling for his head after all the money he's put in is a shortsighted.
He's made an absolute howler in appointing McLeish and that's something he's going to have to rectify. He's not the first chairman to get a managerial appointment wrong.
Lerner has been a disaster.
We could have had Ray Ranson. Which would you have prefered?
We might still get a 'Venky's'
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We are a joke- the owner,ceo and manager along with most of the playing staff are an embarrassment! For god sake randy please go and take your clowns with you!
Randy has been very good for this club so calling for his head after all the money he's put in is a shortsighted.
He's made an absolute howler in appointing McLeish and that's something he's going to have to rectify. He's not the first chairman to get a managerial appointment wrong.
Lerner has been a disaster.
We could have had Ray Ranson. Which would you have prefered?
We might still get a 'Venky's'
Or a multibillionaire arab!
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Oh clampy you old drama queen!
Coming from someone who's answer to everything is 'get rid'.
So you are happy with lerner and the state of our club?
Like i said in a previous post he's made a total balls up in appointing McLeish and if he's got any common sense at all, he'll show him the door at the end of the season whether we stay up or not.
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There are far more Venky's out there than oil billionaires. How many English clubs have owners that are oil billionaires. Then think how many owners there have been in the last 5 years that you thank the stars were destroying another club rather than ours.
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We might still get a 'Venky's'
Another standard response when anybody questions Lerner's ownership. It's either "how many oil billionaires are waiting to take over" or "it'll be somebody like Venkys". Why couldn't it be another Ellis Short, Peter Coates or Fenway?
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Like i said in a previous post he's made a total balls up in appointing McLeish and if he's got any common sense at all, he'll show him the door at the end of the season whether we stay up or not.
The problems extend further than just his choice of manager, although that has obviously compounded all his other errors.
-
Apologies if already posted....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/apr/16/five-things-football-this-weekend
Not havin that at all! Going down will ruin us. Staying in the Prem is key even if it means finishing mid table for the next few years
Quite true.
Yes, we need a re-think and a bit of a clear out, but we can just as easily do that in the PL as the Championship.
Indeed, at the end of that article he reckons we as fans might have a bit of fun for once if we were relegated. The only chance it might be fun is if we come straight back up by pissing the league.
However, earlier in the article he says "What better way to do that than with a year or two (or more) in the Championship?" Fuck that, a few years scrabbling around in Division 2 isn't my idea of fun.
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We might still get a 'Venky's'
Another standard response when anybody questions Lerner's ownership. It's either "how many oil billionaires are waiting to take over" or "it'll be somebody like Venkys". Why couldn't it be another Ellis Short, Peter Coates or Fenway?
Indeed - and don't forget when this conversation takes place on the message boards of plenty of American sports franchises, a standard response is probably "be careful what you wish for - it could be someone like Lerner."
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We might still get a 'Venky's'
Another standard response when anybody questions Lerner's ownership. It's either "how many oil billionaires are waiting to take over" or "it'll be somebody like Venkys". Why couldn't it be another Ellis Short, Peter Coates or Fenway?
It's not just a standard response, there seems to be a consensus building on here similar to the time that Ellis was obviously finally looking like selling up. "Anyone will be better than Ellis".
Well look, we got Lerner, who is now generally considered to be clueless.
Happy then?
Happy now?
Have any fucking clue who he will sell to when Lerner finally gets fed up of hearing us whine and moan at him? After all, we are really just his hobby, his real passion is Cleveland Browns. Will he hold out for the legions of multi-billionaire Arabs that are obviously dying to own us, or will he just flog us to the first bunch of chancers who put up enough dosh so he can cut his losses with a modicum of respectability?
Never has 'be careful what you wish for' been more pertinent.
Edited for quote fail.
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"It's not just a standard response......legions of multi-billionaire Arabs...." Zzzzzzzzzzzz
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"It's not just a standard response......legions of multi-billionaire Arabs...." Zzzzzzzzzzzz
Yep, all those posts about Arabs dying to buy us are very boring, I agree.
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I just hope that any potential buyers don’t come on here, because the impression they are going to get is that at the first sign of trouble they’ll be branded clueless wankers and told to sell up to the next lot.
Something has to change and Lerner has to get a grip on the situation, but calling for him to go given what he has tried to achieve here is just ungrateful sour grapes.
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Going down might kill us off. That gamble wouldn't be worth it. We must fight for our Premier League life at all times.
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I just hope that any potential buyers don’t come on here, because the impression they are going to get is that at the first sign of trouble they’ll be branded clueless wankers and told to sell up to the next lot.
If they don't act like clueless wankers they won't be branded as such..
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We might still get a 'Venky's'
Another standard response when anybody questions Lerner's ownership. It's either "how many oil billionaires are waiting to take over" or "it'll be somebody like Venkys". Why couldn't it be another Ellis Short, Peter Coates or Fenway?
Ellis Short who recently employed MON? Fenway who seem to be doing exactly what Randy did? Peter Coates of anti-football Stoke City?
Didn't realise you wished MON was here with Rory Delap spending half the game with the ball in his shirt trying to throw the ball to Andy Carroll as Jordan Henderson meanders about aimlessly.
Still, whatever makes you happy ;)
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We might still get a 'Venky's'
Another standard response when anybody questions Lerner's ownership. It's either "how many oil billionaires are waiting to take over" or "it'll be somebody like Venkys". Why couldn't it be another Ellis Short, Peter Coates or Fenway?
Ellis Short who recently employed MON? Fenway who seem to be doing exactly what Randy did? Peter Coates of anti-football Stoke City?
Didn't realise you wished MON was here with Rory Delap spending half the game with the ball in his shirt trying to throw the ball to Andy Carroll as Jordan Henderson meanders about aimlessly.
Still, whatever makes you happy ;)
I'm talking about the general way the clubs are run, rather than the style of play of the teams. I don't suppose Coates minds Pulis's brand of football if it keeps them as an established Premier League team.
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I just hope that any potential buyers don’t come on here, because the impression they are going to get is that at the first sign of trouble they’ll be branded clueless wankers and told to sell up to the next lot.
If they don't act like clueless wankers they won't be branded as such..
Spot on nz- lerner deserves the criticism he gets in the same way he deserved praise in his early days, we are in the present not the past and he should be judged on where we are now.
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I just hope that any potential buyers don’t come on here, because the impression they are going to get is that at the first sign of trouble they’ll be branded clueless wankers and told to sell up to the next lot.
Something has to change and Lerner has to get a grip on the situation, but calling for him to go given what he has tried to achieve here is just ungrateful sour grapes.
It's not ungrateful, we didn't ask for him to buy us, and didn't have any choice. He's made a right mess of everything, and so we don't have to tug our forelocks in his direction.
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We might still get a 'Venky's'
Another standard response when anybody questions Lerner's ownership. It's either "how many oil billionaires are waiting to take over" or "it'll be somebody like Venkys". Why couldn't it be another Ellis Short, Peter Coates or Fenway?
Ellis Short who recently employed MON? Fenway who seem to be doing exactly what Randy did? Peter Coates of anti-football Stoke City?
Didn't realise you wished MON was here with Rory Delap spending half the game with the ball in his shirt trying to throw the ball to Andy Carroll as Jordan Henderson meanders about aimlessly.
Still, whatever makes you happy ;)
I'm talking about the general way the clubs are run, rather than the style of play of the teams. I don't suppose Coates minds Pulis's brand of football if it keeps them as an established Premier League team.
You really think Fenway are running the club well by letting KKKenny spend money like he does? One of the reasons folks blame Randy is that he let MON do the same. Who is to say Fenway won't run out of money like Randy did, then what? Will they still be the kind of owner you want?
Randy employs AM, we play shit football it's Randy's fault. Coates employs Pulis who plays even worse football and it's ok. What evidence is there that if he owned Vila he wouldn't just bring Pulis with him. Would he be a great owner then?
My point is it's easy to say Randy out, but there aren't that many great owners out there.
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I just hope that any potential buyers don’t come on here, because the impression they are going to get is that at the first sign of trouble they’ll be branded clueless wankers and told to sell up to the next lot.
Something has to change and Lerner has to get a grip on the situation, but calling for him to go given what he has tried to achieve here is just ungrateful sour grapes.
It's not ungrateful, we didn't ask for him to buy us, and didn't have any choice. He's made a right mess of everything, and so we don't have to tug our forelocks in his direction.
Most of us were like kids in a candy shop when he took over the reins from Doug (me included). In fact I don’t recall any voices of concern on here when Randy came into town. Hell the Holte End even chanted his name, like a hero.
He has royally f**ked up and he has to put it right. In fact I remember posting on here a couple of weeks ago that the venom directed at McLeish detracts from the mess Lerner has made of late. He has to put it right and we should enable him to do so.
Like most on here I agree that it starts by being a man and accepting that McLeish was a terrible decision. However, Lerner has invested heavily in the club and improved many things that were sorely lacking under Doug – Bodymoor and the treatment of the class of ’82 come to mind for one. Let him fix this, because if he decides to jack it in due our own stroppy and sometime personal reaction to an appalling season, we’ll be royally up shit creek without a paddle.
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I think given the value of the club and what it would cost to acquire, the only new buyers who we will get will have more than a bob or two to spare.
That said, it won’t mean anything unless they learn from recent history, as all the money in the world, without proper direction and thinking will only build a house on the sand, as we’ve seen.
There is still hope for Lerner in this regard.
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From oddschecker's daily email:
Aston Villa gifted Man United three crucial title race points with an inept performance yesterday - even given Young's continuation of the Tom Daly impersonation show. The Villains have now won just one of their last twelve - Birmingham managed just two wins from their final thirteen last year. Sunderland, Spurs, WBA and Norwich all look good to beat the beleaguered side which leaves only Bolton to mop up next week at Villa Park where the hosts boast just one victory from the last ten. Given McLeish's relegation record it looks worth taking the 18/1 on offer now before a further plunge into obscurity.
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Don't know what to say to that! :-\
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We are a joke- the owner,ceo and manager along with most of the playing staff are an embarrassment! For god sake randy please go and take your clowns with you!
Randy has been very good for this club so calling for his head after all the money he's put in is a shortsighted.
He's made an absolute howler in appointing McLeish and that's something he's going to have to rectify. He's not the first chairman to get a managerial appointment wrong.
Short-sighted is thinking that blowing a load of money makes a good chairman. That money has all been wasted and has set us back years. Lerner has been a disaster.
Agreed risso, lerner had good intentions and made a promising start but his last 2 years at the helm have been shambolic in the extreme- he should be judged on the present not the past.
he made a mistake with AM, thats all,
get someone better in who can make a decent fist of it and all will be well
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I just hope that any potential buyers don’t come on here, because the impression they are going to get is that at the first sign of trouble they’ll be branded clueless wankers and told to sell up to the next lot.
Something has to change and Lerner has to get a grip on the situation, but calling for him to go given what he has tried to achieve here is just ungrateful sour grapes.
It's not ungrateful, we didn't ask for him to buy us, and didn't have any choice. He's made a right mess of everything, and so we don't have to tug our forelocks in his direction.
Most of us were like kids in a candy shop when he took over the reins from Doug (me included). In fact I don’t recall any voices of concern on here when Randy came into town. Hell the Holte End even chanted his name, like a hero.
He has royally f**ked up and he has to put it right. In fact I remember posting on here a couple of weeks ago that the venom directed at McLeish detracts from the mess Lerner has made of late. He has to put it right and we should enable him to do so.
Like most on here I agree that it starts by being a man and accepting that McLeish was a terrible decision. However, Lerner has invested heavily in the club and improved many things that were sorely lacking under Doug – Bodymoor and the treatment of the class of ’82 come to mind for one. Let him fix this, because if he decides to jack it in due our own stroppy and sometime personal reaction to an appalling season, we’ll be royally up shit creek without a paddle.
It isn't just one season though, the whole club has been in decline for two years now, and it's not just a blip, but an entirely predictable outcome after he basically abdicated responsibility for the finances to O'Neill, rather than having a proper working relationship with his manager. We've since seen most of our decent players sold, including pretty well the entire current England midfield. We haven't replaced them, and we're STILL making massive losses, and are of course saddled with the worst manager that many people can remember. There's no sign of any improvement, and next year will in all probability be even worse. He deserves all the personal criticism he gets and more, and he can't just "jack it in" as he'd have to find a buyer, which is going o prove difficult given the almighty bollocks he's made of the finances.
Seriously, Lerner is a complete mug, a rich kid lucky enough to have inherited a fortune, and unfortunately not content with making a mess of his hometown NFL team, he's exported his own brand of incometence over here as well.
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P
From oddschecker's daily email:
Aston Villa gifted Man United three crucial title race points with an inept performance yesterday - even given Young's continuation of the Tom Daly impersonation show. The Villains have now won just one of their last twelve - Birmingham managed just two wins from their final thirteen last year. Sunderland, Spurs, WBA and Norwich all look good to beat the beleaguered side which leaves only Bolton to mop up next week at Villa Park where the hosts boast just one victory from the last ten. Given McLeish's relegation record it looks worth taking the 18/1 on offer now before a further plunge into obscurity.
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Don't know what to say to that! :-\
Pretty damning isn't it? The hardest thing is trying, objectively, to disagree with it!
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We will not go down,McLeish has to go.
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I just hope that any potential buyers don’t come on here, because the impression they are going to get is that at the first sign of trouble they’ll be branded clueless wankers and told to sell up to the next lot.
Something has to change and Lerner has to get a grip on the situation, but calling for him to go given what he has tried to achieve here is just ungrateful sour grapes.
It's not ungrateful, we didn't ask for him to buy us, and didn't have any choice. He's made a right mess of everything, and so we don't have to tug our forelocks in his direction.
He has royally f**ked up and he has to put it right. He has to put it right and we should enable him to do so.
I agree entirely.
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I think its very easy to disagree with.
The Albion have shit home form and a massive inferiority complex when it comes to us. We could easily win that.
Sunderland are dour and predictable, with one eye already on the beach, we could easily beat them.
Norwich did well to only be smashed six. We could easily win that.
Tottenham have collapsed quicker than an English middle order and will have nothing to play for, so we could easily win that.
Bolton are shite and we can easily win that.
See. Its very easy and I'm not even trying to make a fool part from his money.
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Where is Lerner actually supposed to "go" though?
How is that supposed to work?
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Wigan winning at The Emirates. Of course it had to be.
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You've got to forget the predictor thing at this time of year. As usual, the funny end of season results started a few weeks ago with teams at the bottom starting to pick up unlikely points - all apart from the predicatable surrender monkeys that are the Villa under AML that is. Were we routinely surrender games without trying because they have some good players - what a mindset to instill in a young side!!!!
So Wigan winning at Arsenal (were we put up the white flag and couldn't compete), and now QPR will play a Spurzz team just off the back of poor form and a 5-1 Cup Semi hammering - lovely!
I can quite easily see plenty of ways that we could still get relegated.
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We're sinking, lads.
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I think its very easy to disagree with.
The Albion have shit home form and a massive inferiority complex when it comes to us. We could easily win that.
Sunderland are dour and predictable, with one eye already on the beach, we could easily beat them.
Norwich did well to only be smashed six. We could easily win that.
Tottenham have collapsed quicker than an English middle order and will have nothing to play for, so we could easily win that.
Bolton are shite and we can easily win that.
See. Its very easy and I'm not even trying to make a fool part from his money.
I agree with all of this.
The thing people need to realise is that three teams need to pass us for us to go down, and I don't think there's three teams in that bottom three that can do it.
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I think its very easy to disagree with.
The Albion have shit home form and a massive inferiority complex when it comes to us. We could easily win that.
Sunderland are dour and predictable, with one eye already on the beach, we could easily beat them.
Norwich did well to only be smashed six. We could easily win that.
Tottenham have collapsed quicker than an English middle order and will have nothing to play for, so we could easily win that.
Bolton are shite and we can easily win that.
See. Its very easy and I'm not even trying to make a fool part from his money.
I agree with all of this.
The thing people need to realise is that three teams need to pass us for us to go down, and I don't think there's three teams in that bottom three that can do it.
Wigan and QPR can. Bolton beat us and they will.
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Arsenal 1 Wigan 2.
Cut the odds on us going down.
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The problem is for every argument of why we should beat the teams we're playing you need to remember that we are absolutely terrible. We have won 1 game in 12 and that was a last gasp winner. We could very easily lose our remaining games. The fact the manager hasn't been sacked for this performance is laughable.
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Look at the table guys. Just look at it and weep.
I bet MON would love to beat us now.
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The problem is for every argument of why we should beat the teams we're playing you need to remember that we are absolutely terrible. We have won 1 game in 12 and that was a last gasp winner. We could very easily lose our remaining games. The fact the manager hasn't been sacked for this performance is laughable.
I honestly think sacking McLeish now, or in the last month would have been a terrible decision, and I think that because of what's happened to Wolves.
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Collymore tweeting that's he'll be in the Holte End to roar the team over the line.
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The problem is for every argument of why we should beat the teams we're playing you need to remember that we are absolutely terrible. We have won 1 game in 12 and that was a last gasp winner. We could very easily lose our remaining games. The fact the manager hasn't been sacked for this performance is laughable.
That's my concern.
If you look at the matches we have left, you're absolutely right in saying we should easily get the points to keep us safe. The problem is, we've had plenty of matches when that has been the case on paper this season, and we've got very little.
Fair play to Wigan, though. To have taken six points from Man United and Arsenal is highly impressive and spirited.
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From oddschecker's daily email:
Aston Villa gifted Man United three crucial title race points with an inept performance yesterday - even given Young's continuation of the Tom Daly impersonation show. The Villains have now won just one of their last twelve - Birmingham managed just two wins from their final thirteen last year. Sunderland, Spurs, WBA and Norwich all look good to beat the beleaguered side which leaves only Bolton to mop up next week at Villa Park where the hosts boast just one victory from the last ten. Given McLeish's relegation record it looks worth taking the 18/1 on offer now before a further plunge into obscurity.
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Don't know what to say to that! :-\
tell them to bugger off and then get yourself down the bookies me thinks
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The problem is for every argument of why we should beat the teams we're playing you need to remember that we are absolutely terrible. We have won 1 game in 12 and that was a last gasp winner. We could very easily lose our remaining games. The fact the manager hasn't been sacked for this performance is laughable.
I honestly think sacking McLeish now, or in the last month would have been a terrible decision, and I think that because of what's happened to Wolves.
I don't because we aren't in the same position as Wolves, they needed to win nearly all their games. We only need a brief lift, and that's possible with KMac in charge with the games we have.
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Collymore tweeting that's he'll be in the Holte End to roar the team over the line.
oh thank god thats me off to sleep tonight :P
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I think its very easy to disagree with.
The Albion have shit home form and a massive inferiority complex when it comes to us. We could easily win that.
Sunderland are dour and predictable, with one eye already on the beach, we could easily beat them.
Norwich did well to only be smashed six. We could easily win that.
Tottenham have collapsed quicker than an English middle order and will have nothing to play for, so we could easily win that.
Bolton are shite and we can easily win that.
See. Its very easy and I'm not even trying to make a fool part from his money.
I agree with all of this.
The thing people need to realise is that three teams need to pass us for us to go down, and I don't think there's three teams in that bottom three that can do it.
You can just as easily find justifications to disagree with every one of those statements. And that's before we even ponder who is going to be scoring the goals for us to do it. We are sleepwalking our way towards relegation if we are not careful and losing at home to Sunderland and Bolton is no way as impossible as some fear on here. I still think we will just scrape it but this idea that there is no way we are going down seems very shaky to me
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Any one who thinks Sunderland wont be fired up for the game are deluded. It really does look like the bolton Game is pivotal. Lose that and we are down.
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What's strange is, and I'll quantify this by saying I don't necessarily think we'll go down, but each week people come on here and say 'here are the games we can get points' or 'the teams below us won't win enough games'. Well we aren't picking up these points and the games are ticking by and some of the teams below us are reeling us in.
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I would can him by email right now if I were Faulkner.
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Any one who thinks Sunderland wont be fired up for the game are deluded. It really does look like the bolton Game is pivotal. Lose that and we are down.
Which two of Spurs, Chelsea or Man City are QPR going to be beating?
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Wigan winning at Arsenal has condensed the table. With them just below us, the points gap doesn't look so good. I think what it does, is massively increase the pressure on the team on saturday. If things don't go well then the crowd will get agtitated and the pressure will increase.
I think there is every chance we can get well and truly sucked into a 2 or 3 horse race to avoid the drop.
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What's strange is, and I'll quantify this by saying I don't necessarily think we'll go down, but each week people come on here and say 'here are the games we can get points' or 'the teams below us won't win enough games'. Well we aren't picking up these points and the games are ticking by and some of the teams below us are reeling us in.
are they ?
we were 6 points clear before we played Man Utd, and woe we are still 6 points clear, with games in hand, and we have been picking up points where people said we wouldnt, re liverpool and Stoke
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What's strange is, and I'll quantify this by saying I don't necessarily think we'll go down, but each week people come on here and say 'here are the games we can get points' or 'the teams below us won't win enough games'. Well we aren't picking up these points and the games are ticking by and some of the teams below us are reeling us in.
Ah ha, well done Paul, at least someone else has woken up to what is actually happening rather than what they think will happen. Never ever ever understimate this twat of a manager's ability to take us down. I have said it time and time again
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Surely we will get one more win this season. Even poor sides get the occasional win.
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QPR will beat Spurs I reckon Dave. And Chelsea come on the back of a night in Barcelona.
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God this is all horribly edgy...so assuming Wolves are goners and ignoring Wigan, to get overtaken by 2 of Bolton, Blackburn or QPR then (assuming we lose ALL games & our goal difference doesn't get a hammering)
Blackburn - need 3 wins from Norwich (h), Spurs (a), Wigan (h), Chelsea (a)
QPR - need 5 points from Spurs (h), Chelsea (a), Stoke (h), Man City (a)
Bolton - need 7 points from Swansea (h), Villa (a), Sunderland (a), Spurs (h), West Brom (h), Stoke (a)
Win Saturday and it puts it pretty much all to bed and looking at other results.
Us, Bolton, QPR and Blackburn all play at home Saturday...big big day for us. The longer this goes on the worse we will get...(it seems)
My heart says we could be safe already (just), my head isn't so sure....
If he doesn't get them fired up for a game against an out of form Sunderland side, then he never will.
Convinced? No, neither am I...
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Any one who thinks Sunderland wont be fired up for the game are deluded. It really does look like the bolton Game is pivotal. Lose that and we are down.
Which two of Spurs, Chelsea or Man City are QPR going to be beating?
I can see them beating Spurs at Loftus Road. Possibly, possbly a point at Chelsea, but nothing from Man City.
You're right, it's hard to see them winning two of those games. Mind you, how many points did people reckon Wigan would get at Arsenal and at home to Man United?
EDIT they also have Stoke.
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Any one who thinks Sunderland wont be fired up for the game are deluded. It really does look like the bolton Game is pivotal. Lose that and we are down.
Which two of Spurs, Chelsea or Man City are QPR going to be beating?
Which of Liverpool away, Arsenal away, Chelsea away and Manure at home were Wigan going to be winning?
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Any one who thinks Sunderland wont be fired up for the game are deluded. It really does look like the bolton Game is pivotal. Lose that and we are down.
Which two of Spurs, Chelsea or Man City are QPR going to be beating?
Stoke and Spurs.
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that Wigan win has given Spurs a sniff of 3rd spot again, our last home game is against Spurs !
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QPR will beat Spurs I reckon Dave. And Chelsea come on the back of a night in Barcelona.
And Man City could have already lost out on the league, be secure in second place and be mentally on the beach
Not that I wish to argue with Dave because I bloody well hope he is right!
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Any one who thinks Sunderland wont be fired up for the game are deluded. It really does look like the bolton Game is pivotal. Lose that and we are down.
Which two of Spurs, Chelsea or Man City are QPR going to be beating?
Stoke and Spurs.
Yet they can't get anything from a mediocre West Brom team who weren't playing half their first team and have nothing left to play for?
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Wigan winning at Arsenal has condensed the table. With them just below us, the points gap doesn't look so good. I think what it does, is massively increase the pressure on the team on saturday. If things don't go well then the crowd will get agtitated and the pressure will increase.
I think there is every chance we can get well and truly sucked into a 2 or 3 horse race to avoid the drop.
Sucked in? We've been in it for weeks. Going four months without a home win is relegation form.
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Blackburn - need 3 wins from Norwich (h), Spurs (a), Wigan (h), Chelsea (a) 2 wins max
QPR - need 5 points from Spurs (h), Chelsea (a), Stoke (h), Man City (a) 2 wins, Spurs, Stoke
Bolton - need 7 points from Swansea (h), Villa (a), Sunderland (a), Spurs (h), West Brom (h), Stoke (a) 3 wins and a draw I reckon
To me, we need to get to 38, and from there will sit on the line. I have had a fiver at 15/1 on us dropping though.
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Wigan winning at Arsenal has condensed the table. With them just below us, the points gap doesn't look so good. I think what it does, is massively increase the pressure on the team on saturday. If things don't go well then the crowd will get agtitated and the pressure will increase.
I think there is every chance we can get well and truly sucked into a 2 or 3 horse race to avoid the drop.
Sucked in? We've been in it for weeks. Going four months without a home win is relegation form.
And we are banking on our next 2 home games.
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Even if some posters dont think we are deep in a relegation battle I hope the players do.
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Sunderland is huge game for us. AMs team selection and tactics for this game will show us if AM can keep us up. Poor team and Heskey and we will go down.
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last time i looked we were 6 points clear, with as good a run in of fixtures as you could wish for, with difficult ties against Man Utd and liverpool out of the way,
its looking good
i'm so confident of staying up i will personaly donate £500 to this site if we go down, and no i have not had a drink.
our big problem is Alex Mcliesh not Relegation
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15 Aston Villa 33 -13 35
16 Wigan Athletic 34 -25 34
17 Queens Park Rangers 34 -19 31
18 Bolton Wanderers 32 -29 29
19 Blackburn Rovers 34 -28 28
20 Wolverhampton Wanderers 34 -39 23
This Saturday
Villa v Sunderland
Blackburn v Norwich
Bolton v Swansea
Fulham v Wigan
If they all win by a single goal and we lose by a single goal (not impossible by any means) then.....
15 Wigan Athletic 35 -24 37
16 Aston Villa 34 -14 35
17 Queens Park Rangers 35 -18 34
18 Bolton Wanderers 33 -28 32
19 Blackburn Rovers 35 -27 31
20 Wolverhampton Wanderers 34 -39 23
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Blackburn - need 3 wins from Norwich (h), Spurs (a), Wigan (h), Chelsea (a) 2 wins max
QPR - need 5 points from Spurs (h), Chelsea (a), Stoke (h), Man City (a) 2 wins, Spurs, Stoke
Bolton - need 7 points from Swansea (h), Villa (a), Sunderland (a), Spurs (h), West Brom (h), Stoke (a) 3 wins and a draw I reckon
To me, we need to get to 38, and from there will sit on the line. I have had a fiver at 15/1 on us dropping though.
Agree 3 points will do it
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We are too complacent as a Club,time to wake up;Randy??
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Shit this is terrible, how far backwards have we gone...........FFS!!!!!!
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Blackburn - need 3 wins from Norwich (h), Spurs (a), Wigan (h), Chelsea (a) 2 wins max
QPR - need 5 points from Spurs (h), Chelsea (a), Stoke (h), Man City (a) 2 wins, Spurs, Stoke
Bolton - need 7 points from Swansea (h), Villa (a), Sunderland (a), Spurs (h), West Brom (h), Stoke (a) 3 wins and a draw I reckon
To me, we need to get to 38, and from there will sit on the line. I have had a fiver at 15/1 on us dropping though.
As you say...3 points Saturday and 38 points and it's done and dusted (pretty much). Trouble is, he'll probably be looking at 3 draws from our remaining games to stay up..
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I am really worried now.
There seems to be a sort of inevitability that McLash will be true to form and take a team down yet again. The irony of him coming from THEM to us makes great material for the journos and all the neutrals who rightly think we have been a shit team this season and actually deserve to go down.
All of our worst, but highly unlikely fears are coming home to roost.
And it's all down to a really shit appointment that no-one in the world could consider/predict/believe possible.
What the fuck were RL/PF thinking of?
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I honestly can't see why people are assuming we're going to lose our next five matches. Giving up against ManYoo is fully expected, but if there is one thing that our manager is capable of, it's playing out a couple of tedious draws against mid-table sides.
We'll be desperately dull and short on imagination, but there's no way we will lose to ALL of Bolton, West Brom, Norwich, Spurs and Sunderland.
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I think we will get a win on Saturday, then lose against Bolton still. I said it last week and still believe it, and likely see Gargoyle sent off for a stupid tackle on Gary.
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I honestly can't see why people are assuming we're going to lose our next five matches. Giving up against ManYoo is fully expected, but if there is one thing that our manager is capable of, it's playing out a couple of tedious draws against mid-table sides.
We'll be desperately dull and short on imagination, but there's no way we will lose to ALL of Bolton, West Brom, Norwich, Spurs and Sunderland.
But if we lose to Bolton and maybe get just a couple of draws it may not be enough. Particularly with the end of season results others are achieving. eg. QPR can beat Man City last game of the season.
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i reckon this weekend we'll see:
Villa - Sunderland - draw = 1 point for us
QPR - Spurs - draw = 1 point for QPR
Fulham - Wigan - home win = 0 points for Wigan
Bolton - Swansea - home win = 3 points for Bolton
Blackburn - Norwich - draw = 1 point for Blackburn
That'll leave:
Villa 34 - 36
Wigan 35 - 34
Bolton 33 - 32
----------------------
QPR 35 - 31
Blackburn 35 - 29
Wolves - doesn't matter, down already
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last time i looked we were 6 points clear, with as good a run in of fixtures as you could wish for, with difficult ties against Man Utd and liverpool out of the way,
its looking good
i'm so confident of staying up i will personaly donate £500 to this site if we go down, and no i have not had a drink.
our big problem is Alex Mcliesh not Relegation
You're a brave man John though I think you will just be safe on your bet. We could have some fun with 500 quid mind you. Perhaps we need to start a thread on suggestions as what to do with it?!
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We'll be okay.
That's not to say this season is acceptable, not at all.
But Wigan have pulled out two of the results of the season in the past two weeks -and yet they are still behind us, with one game less to play.
If I was a betting man, I'd fancy the bottom three now to be the bottom three by the end of 38 games.
As far as we're concerned, I'd fancy us to sneak at least one win from Slumberland, the Bolton, Olbiyun and Norwich games (I wouldn't be stunned to see us beat Tottingham either as their season looks to have imploded) and sneak at least a point or two in the other games.
Not great, but should be enough. This time.
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I think your right Dave,but im still gonna cut your last paragraph just in case ;).#Nothing can go wrong now.
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Think we'll do well to take a point on sat. Mon too much to prove and needs to turn around their bad run. Gardner and laursen will want to stick the knife in as well. id take a point now. its really pathetic isn't it?!
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The Sunderland match could go either way, but I'm fairly confident that we'll beat Bolton, and our relegation fears will be over. Add to that a couple of draws, and we'll be close to 40 points. Not good, but good enough to survive.
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the only thing we as fans can do is get down Villa Park for the next 3 games and support which ever 11 players are out there as passionately and loudly as we can! Forget that ginger prick is manager wait til the season's over to sort him out but what those mainly young players need now is for us to get behind them and make as much noise as possible, at least we can hold our heads up as fans .
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I honestly can't see why people are assuming we're going to lose our next five matches. Giving up against ManYoo is fully expected, but if there is one thing that our manager is capable of, it's playing out a couple of tedious draws against mid-table sides.
We'll be desperately dull and short on imagination, but there's no way we will lose to ALL of Bolton, West Brom, Norwich, Spurs and Sunderland.
I dont see us losing our next 5, its hard to see us winning any of them,
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On the otherhand we could lose all remaining games. It wouldnt suprise me.
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I honestly can't see why people are assuming we're going to lose our next five matches. Giving up against ManYoo is fully expected, but if there is one thing that our manager is capable of, it's playing out a couple of tedious draws against mid-table sides.
We'll be desperately dull and short on imagination, but there's no way we will lose to ALL of Bolton, West Brom, Norwich, Spurs and Sunderland.
Negative I know Dave, but I can see us losing 4 of those games pretty easily the way we are playing. That just leaves Bolton to play well in one game against us and nicking a win against the odds. It happens all the time. It happened tonight.
I really hope you are right and we have nothing to worry about, but we have shown very little passion, tactical nous or team selection to do anything about the the situation we are in. Why should that suddenly change because we are playing Sunderland and Bolton?
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we don't need to lose all the games just only pick up two draws. Its still very unlikely that all three of the teams directly below us will keep winning and if bolton mess up then we'll probably be safe on 37 but still even bolton only have to show average premeriship form to be round the 37 point mark....squeaky bum time as Lerner's idol would say
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The whole concept of winning seems so unreal at the moment
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I was worried after Chelsea beat us. I thought there was a real possibility we would go on a real downward spiral with Stan being ill. Since then we've lost like we normally do at Old Trafford and scraped two draws out of Liverpool and Stoke.
If we can get two draws against those two then I don't understand why we can't get some draws in our remaining games?
That's all it's going to need, 2-3 points. That will require Bolton or QPR to get to 38 or 39 points, I just don't see it.
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Is our manager capable of picking a team, coming up with a system and making tactical decisions to win us a game?
This is my biggest worry.
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As I've said before, all the other teams have got the capacity to win games, except Wolves. We are truly stuffed.
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he really does have to get the team right on Saturday, no Hutton at right back for a start
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Is our manager capable of picking a team, coming up with a system and making tactical decisions to win us a game?
This is my biggest worry.
This
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Another thing: if QPR don't win against Spurs this weekend, we're more or less safe, regardless of how we do. In that scenario QPR would have to win two against Stoke, Chelsea and Man City, while we keep losing. I don't see it.
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I was worried after Chelsea beat us. I thought there was a real possibility we would go on a real downward spiral with Stan being ill. Since then we've lost like we normally do at Old Trafford and scraped two draws out of Liverpool and Stoke.
If we can get two draws against those two then I don't understand why we can't get some draws in our remaining games?
That's all it's going to need, 2-3 points. That will require Bolton or QPR to get to 38 or 39 points, I just don't see it.
Its not too difficult to imagine us still needing points after the next 3 games. We just need one performance, the longer this goes on the more likely we will struggle.
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he really does have to get the team right on Saturday, no Hutton at right back for a start
I guarantee Hutton will be in the team.
AM is stubborn enough to stick with a plan that is not working. We see it every week. He's not going to change now!
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I dont think we are down but If Randy was watching that Wigan game ( which he probably wasnt ) , that wigan performance would make my mind up and I would be phoning McLeish now and giving him the bullet with a big FUCK OFF on it .
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As I've said before, all the other teams have got the capacity to win games, except Wolves. We are truly stuffed.
How much do you wanna bet?
Won't try to top John e's offer, but there's cash waiting here if you're so sure.
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Another thing: if QPR don't win against Spurs this weekend, we're more or less safe, regardless of how we do. In that scenario QPR would have to win two against Stoke, Chelsea and Man City, while we keep losing. I don't see it.
Massive game for QPR, a good time to play spurs though.
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For me its vital to match what QPR and Bolton do on Saturday, if we dont I do fear for us, we need to be very vocal in the next 2 home games we must not let our fear turn Villa park into a library, lets roar the team on to victory.
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Another thing: if QPR don't win against Spurs this weekend, we're more or less safe, regardless of how we do. In that scenario QPR would have to win two against Stoke, Chelsea and Man City, while we keep losing. I don't see it.
spurs due a result and tonight result should give them a boost
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H
he really does have to get the team right on Saturday, no Hutton at right back for a start
I guarantee Hutton will be in the team.
AM is stubborn enough to stick with a plan that is not working. We see it every week. He's not going to change now!
He really is a shit manager isn't he ?
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he really does have to get the team right on Saturday, no Hutton at right back for a start
I guarantee Hutton will be in the team.
AM is stubborn enough to stick with a plan that is not working. We see it every week. He's not going to change now!
And our Captain starts.
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Another thing: if QPR don't win against Spurs this weekend, we're more or less safe, regardless of how we do. In that scenario QPR would have to win two against Stoke, Chelsea and Man City, while we keep losing. I don't see it.
depends how spurs react after the defeat yesterday. looked pretty knackered and demoralised to me and have done so for some time now. redknapp for england thing seems to have hit them hard. Still we have to play them as well
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We shouldn't have to worry about other teams, we should do our bit of the business. Unfortunately, we have such a cretin of a manager, we have no choice but to seek favours from elsewhere. Worse than clueless.
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Hhe really does have to get the team right on Saturday, no Hutton at right back for a start
I guarantee Hutton will be in the team.
AM is stubborn enough to stick with a plan that is not working. We see it every week. He's not going to change now!
He really is a shit manager isn't he ?
Yes
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We won't go, but I reckon we'll get 2 points from the last 4 games and we'll still be sweating going to Norwich.
It's like '95 all over again.
Except instead of 'he who walks on water' we've got 'he who can't go out in the sun'
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Spurs won't be finishing top 4 if they lose to QPR.
They need to wake up otherwise they'd have fcuked up even worse than we did in 08/09.
I fancy them to get at least a point at Loftus Road.
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One thing i am certain of, i'm going to need several pre-match beers on Saturday.
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Another thing: if QPR don't win against Spurs this weekend, we're more or less safe, regardless of how we do. In that scenario QPR would have to win two against Stoke, Chelsea and Man City, while we keep losing. I don't see it.
depends how spurs react after the defeat yesterday. looked pretty knackered and demoralised to me and have done so for some time now. redknapp for england thing seems to have hit them hard. Still we have to play them as well
Spurs look absoloutely knackered, i think they have won 1 in 8
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he really does have to get the team right on Saturday, no Hutton at right back for a start
I guarantee Hutton will be in the team.
AM is stubborn enough to stick with a plan that is not working. We see it every week. He's not going to change now!
And our Captain starts.
Gabby said several weeks ago that he wished the season was over. The way he is playing, for him it already is. He contributed nothing on Sunday and I thought was a really bad example to the kids and a bit of a disgrace as captain of the club he says he loves. Hollow words!
I'd love him to have a few blinders in the games we have left but I don't think he will. Hope I'm wrong.
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Hhe really does have to get the team right on Saturday, no Hutton at right back for a start
I guarantee Hutton will be in the team.
AM is stubborn enough to stick with a plan that is not working. We see it every week. He's not going to change now!
He really is a shit manager isn't he ?
Yes
and that is why we are in this shit
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Folks if you're so sure on this, put money on Bolton and QPR winning all their remaining games this season. With QPR still to play Chelsea and Man. City away, you're certainly going to get some very long odds.
I've already backed QPR a little recently.....much easier to me than just putting a lump sum on us getting relegated anyway.
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Another thing: if QPR don't win against Spurs this weekend, we're more or less safe, regardless of how we do. In that scenario QPR would have to win two against Stoke, Chelsea and Man City, while we keep losing. I don't see it.
depends how spurs react after the defeat yesterday. looked pretty knackered and demoralised to me and have done so for some time now. redknapp for england thing seems to have hit them hard. Still we have to play them as well
Spurs look absoloutely knackered, i think they have won 1 in 8
Was thinking about this the other day. Spurs, Liverpool and us a couple of seasons back.
All good on paper, all with old-school managers, all with press boys on their side, all hitting a massive wall come March.
The games moved on.
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Didn't stop them overtaking us in 09/10 with a ridiculous Bale inspired run of form from March though. I actually think that season was our best chance of making the top 4 as Man. City weren't quite ready that season.
Christ, two years ago but all that feels like 20 years ago.
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he really does have to get the team right on Saturday, no Hutton at right back for a start
I guarantee Hutton will be in the team.
AM is stubborn enough to stick with a plan that is not working. We see it every week. He's not going to change now!
And our Captain starts.
Gabby said several weeks ago that he wished the season was over. The way he is playing, for him it already is. He contributed nothing on Sunday and I thought was a really bad example to the kids and a bit of a disgrace as captain of the club he says he loves. Hollow words!
I'd love him to have a few blinders in the games we have left but I don't think he will. Hope I'm wrong.
He looks a shadow of the player that used to terrorise defenders with his pace and running, making him captain when he was allready out of form just made the situation worse, another great decision, like you i just hope he does something to turn a game. his goal at West Ham last season started our revival.
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last time i looked we were 6 points clear, with as good a run in of fixtures as you could wish for, with difficult ties against Man Utd and liverpool out of the way,
its looking good
i'm so confident of staying up i will personaly donate £500 to this site if we go down, and no i have not had a drink.
our big problem is Alex Mcliesh not Relegation
You're a brave man John though I think you will just be safe on your bet. We could have some fun with 500 quid mind you. Perhaps we need to start a thread on suggestions as what to do with it?!
well i suppose its what you call a win win bet,
we dont go down i dont lose any money, we do go down, i'm sure the money will be put to good use
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last time i looked we were 6 points clear, with as good a run in of fixtures as you could wish for, with difficult ties against Man Utd and liverpool out of the way,
its looking good
i'm so confident of staying up i will personaly donate £500 to this site if we go down, and no i have not had a drink.
our big problem is Alex Mcliesh not Relegation
You're a brave man John though I think you will just be safe on your bet. We could have some fun with 500 quid mind you. Perhaps we need to start a thread on suggestions as what to do with it?!
well i suppose its what you call a win win bet,
we dont go down i dont lose any money, we do go down, i'm sure the money will be put to good use
Oh yes.
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last time i looked we were 6 points clear, with as good a run in of fixtures as you could wish for, with difficult ties against Man Utd and liverpool out of the way,
its looking good
i'm so confident of staying up i will personaly donate £500 to this site if we go down, and no i have not had a drink.
our big problem is Alex Mcliesh not Relegation
You're a brave man John though I think you will just be safe on your bet. We could have some fun with 500 quid mind you. Perhaps we need to start a thread on suggestions as what to do with it?!
well i suppose its what you call a win win bet,
we dont go down i dont lose any money, we do go down, i'm sure the money will be put to good use
we could use the money to buy a banner to cover lots of empty seats
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Folks if you're so sure on this, put money on Bolton and QPR winning all their remaining games this season. With QPR still to play Chelsea and Man. City away, you're certainly going to get some very long odds.
I've already backed QPR a little recently.....much easier to me than just putting a lump sum on us getting relegated anyway.
We're not sure, just sure there's a chance. By next weekend it could be all over, probably with nothing to do with our result but until the likes of wigan stop fluking results then "the perfect storm" is still on. Anyway this is the only excitement we've had all season.
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If we stay up, the pressure on McLeish at the start of next season is going to be immense. I wonder if he's past the point of no return regardless of what happens.
There were plenty of us willing to give the guy a go so long as he didn't repeat his mistakes with Blues, and largely he's done precisely that. Those people aren't going to be anything like as willing to give him time next season if he's still there.
Unfortunately, I think the whole disunity around the club is now going to linger for quite a long time. Lots of the fans have lost the love for the chairman, the chairman has lost interest in the club, the fans can't stand the manager, the manager has started talking the club down (albeit inadvertently sometimes), and the players look totally unbothered.
If SGT Mk 1 thought the club was a shambles when he arrived, what on earth would he make of this?
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Folks if you're so sure on this, put money on Bolton and QPR winning all their remaining games this season. With QPR still to play Chelsea and Man. City away, you're certainly going to get some very long odds.
I've already backed QPR a little recently.....much easier to me than just putting a lump sum on us getting relegated anyway.
QPR need to win 2 out of 4, Bolton need to win 3 out of 6 including us to give themselves a decent chance
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If we stay up, the pressure on McLeish at the start of next season is going to be immense. I wonder if he's past the point of no return regardless of what happens.
There were plenty of us willing to give the guy a go so long as he didn't repeat his mistakes with Blues, and largely he's done precisely that. Those people aren't going to be anything like as willing to give him time next season if he's still there.
Unfortunately, I think the whole disunity around the club is now going to linger for quite a long time. Lots of the fans have lost the love for the chairman, the chairman has lost interest in the club, the fans can't stand the manager, the manager has started talking the club down (albeit inadvertently sometimes), and the players look totally unbothered.
If SGT Mk 1 thought the club was a shambles when he arrived, what on earth would he make of this?
I don't know paulie, but I'd sooner let his missus sort it out than the current incumbant.
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Folks if you're so sure on this, put money on Bolton and QPR winning all their remaining games this season. With QPR still to play Chelsea and Man. City away, you're certainly going to get some very long odds.
I've already backed QPR a little recently.....much easier to me than just putting a lump sum on us getting relegated anyway.
We're not sure, just sure there's a chance. By next weekend it could be all over, probably with nothing to do with our result but until the likes of wigan stop fluking results then "the perfect storm" is still on. Anyway this is the only excitement we've had all season.
Unfair to Wigan. They battered united, and we're the better team against chelsea but robbed by poor decisions, and had more shots on and off target than Arsenal tonight. Certainly isn't any luck involved.
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Ive started to go grey this season . Thanks McFuck ....
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If we stay up, the pressure on McLeish at the start of next season is going to be immense. I wonder if he's past the point of no return regardless of what happens.
There were plenty of us willing to give the guy a go so long as he didn't repeat his mistakes with Blues, and largely he's done precisely that. Those people aren't going to be anything like as willing to give him time next season if he's still there.
Unfortunately, I think the whole disunity around the club is now going to linger for quite a long time. Lots of the fans have lost the love for the chairman, the chairman has lost interest in the club, the fans can't stand the manager, the manager has started talking the club down (albeit inadvertently sometimes), and the players look totally unbothered.
If SGT Mk 1 thought the club was a shambles when he arrived, what on earth would he make of this?
The problem is, we still think that we are a big club. Sadly it appears that no one at the Club has the same belief. I mentioned some time ago, Managers and players when they joined would allways refer to them joining a massive or big club. Even MON did that. Look at the statements coming from Mcliesh, look at our players reaction to Ashley Young. There is something very wrong SGT addressed that and provided leadership that is absent right now.
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Folks if you're so sure on this, put money on Bolton and QPR winning all their remaining games this season. With QPR still to play Chelsea and Man. City away, you're certainly going to get some very long odds.
I've already backed QPR a little recently.....much easier to me than just putting a lump sum on us getting relegated anyway.
We're not sure, just sure there's a chance. By next weekend it could be all over, probably with nothing to do with our result but until the likes of wigan stop fluking results then "the perfect storm" is still on. Anyway this is the only excitement we've had all season.
Unfair to Wigan. They battered united, and we're the better team against chelsea but robbed by poor decisions, and had more shots on and off target than Arsenal tonight. Certainly isn't any luck involved.
Yeah i didn't mean they fluked the performances, just what you'd wouldn't generally expect Wigan to get results wise
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The problem is, we still think that we are a big club. Sadly it appears that no one at the Club has the same belief. I mentioned some time ago, Managers and players when they joined would allways refer to them joining a massive or big club. Even MON did that. Look at the statements coming from Mcliesh, look at our players reaction to Ashley Young. There is something very wrong SGT addressed that and provided leadership that is absent right now.
[/quote]
Yeah there is a small time attitude from top to bottom at the moment. Lerners willingness for us/him to be patronised by the letter from fergie, the 'theatre of dreams' shit from Oh Eck, the players chumming up to the enemy in the middle of a defeat. And the marketing department trying vainly to sell tickets for games by calling them 'cup finals'. Its embarrassingly amateurish.
Now i need to get collecting those ticket stubs for the cup final tickets.....whats that? should just be able to turn up?
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I don't delude myself that we're on a par with Man U, Arsenal and the like anymore.
But by Christ, lets not go the route of fawning over them, happy just to share a pitch.
That mindset comes from the top down, and is one of a number of things that needs to change.
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I don't delude myself that we're on a par with Man U, Arsenal and the like anymore.
But by Christ, lets not go the route of fawning over them, happy just to share a pitch.
That mindset coms from the top down, and is one of a number of things that needs to change.
The worrying thing is how that mindset has changed so quickly. At least last season under Houllier, it didn't make sense at times, but by and large the was at least an under current that there were things that we required to be changed post PoisonDwarf. Since then it has been a constant car crash, and the fault lies with Lerner period. There is no goodwill left for me, his cosmetic spiel is no good if the product on the pitch is not up to scratch.
I'm too long in the tooth to expect CL football anytime in my lifetime now, but what I do expect is a Villa side at least trying to win football matches. Ecks incompetence means that we will struggle to do that. The sooner he departs the better
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Think Mcleish let the cat out the bag when he said he thought the season would be difficult when he took over. He'd didn't say that at the time, nor did the club, but i think they're happy to see us bump along the bottom till the kids suddenly come good and lead us to the promised land along with presumbly 4 or 5 free transfers to make up the numbers.. Personally i don't think Mcleish is convinced this plan is going to work anymore than i am, but Lerner and Faulkner have gone for it hook line and sinker and really believe they're going to turn us into the ajax of England. Total muppets the pair of them
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Well Greg Mcliesh only does difficut seasons, thats his forte. It did not need to be this difficut.
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Think Mcleish let the cat out the bag when he said he thought the season would be difficult when he took over. He'd didn't say that at the time, nor did the club, but i think they're happy to see us bump along the bottom till the kids suddenly come good and lead us to the promised land along with presumbly 4 or 5 free transfers to make up the numbers.. Personally i don't think Mcleish is convinced this plan is going to work anymore than i am, but Lerner and Faulkner have gone for it hook line and sinker and really believe they're going to turn us into the ajax of England. Total muppets the pair of them
The really worrying part is how quickly we have slipped from the top six, through the middle eight, right into being a bottom six outfit.
If you were a neutral observer, new to English football and had seen our approach to games, you would probably think we had only just recently been promoted into the EPL.
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Think Mcleish let the cat out the bag when he said he thought the season would be difficult when he took over. He'd didn't say that at the time, nor did the club, but i think they're happy to see us bump along the bottom till the kids suddenly come good and lead us to the promised land along with presumbly 4 or 5 free transfers to make up the numbers.. Personally i don't think Mcleish is convinced this plan is going to work anymore than i am, but Lerner and Faulkner have gone for it hook line and sinker and really believe they're going to turn us into the ajax of England. Total muppets the pair of them
The really worrying part is how quickly we have slipped from the top six, through the middle eight, right into being a bottom six outfit.
If you were a neutral observer, new to English football and had seen our approach to games, you would probably think we had only just recently been promoted into the EPL.
The warning signs were there last season though Vanilla. Remember when we had a lot of injuries around Christmas time last year, fielded a lot of the players who are featuring now and dropped right down the table (weren't we in the bottom three at one point)? Luckily we signed Bent in January, a few of the injured players returned and we were able to climb the table. We haven't been so lucky this time and the injuries have come at the worst possible time.
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I agree that Faulkner's vision of us being the Ajax of English football is very risky. We're still waiting for a single one of these kids to really prove themselves, and mcleish took such a view pretty early on.
West ham got relegated with Ferdinand, carrick, lampard, cole and defoe. We certainly don't have a batch of kids in that league, I doubt any of them are at that level.
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I agree that Faulkner's vision of us being the Ajax of English football is very risky. We're still waiting for a single one of these kids to really prove themselves, and mcleish took such a view pretty early on
Not only that, but Ajax manage to keep their best players longer than we would, as they're in the CL year in, year out, and are the biggest club in their league.
It wouldn't be the same for us, and to my mind raises big questions over how valid a comparison Ajax is (although it's a very nice one).
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To be Ajax as well you need a passing football philosophy. So that's right out of the window with this clown in charge.
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To be Ajax as well you need a passing football philosophy. So that's right out of the window with this clown in charge.
We have that philosophy all though the academy, which is why the appointment of Mcleish is an absolute joke and was not thought through in any shape or form.Sheer negligence
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Think Mcleish let the cat out the bag when he said he thought the season would be difficult when he took over. He'd didn't say that at the time, nor did the club, but i think they're happy to see us bump along the bottom till the kids suddenly come good and lead us to the promised land along with presumbly 4 or 5 free transfers to make up the numbers.. Personally i don't think Mcleish is convinced this plan is going to work anymore than i am, but Lerner and Faulkner have gone for it hook line and sinker and really believe they're going to turn us into the ajax of England. Total muppets the pair of them
The really worrying part is how quickly we have slipped from the top six, through the middle eight, right into being a bottom six outfit.
If you were a neutral observer, new to English football and had seen our approach to games, you would probably think we had only just recently been promoted into the EPL.
[/quote
In truth, there is scant difference between the quality of the teams in 6th to 8th place and most of the bottom 6 clubs. It's not as far a journey as I suspect you make it out to be