Relegation Possibility

[Greg N'Ash]

ah now we're getting somewhere. See this is my worry. People think Lerner is going to loosen the purse strings if a new guy comes in but i think he's convinved a club that basically runs off itself is the way to go despite the almost 100% failure of any club thats run like that to compete. Time will tell but i don't see any money being made available unless we sell the last of the silver (Bent)

[hawkeye]

Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.

Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations  Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..

Its called ambition, based on your view of the world we would all be swimming around in some a Darwin sludge pool

eh? whats ambitious about moving to a club with no better chance of success?

Blimey Greg, is everything short term with you? We might not be better off than them right at this moment in time, but we are a bigger club than them, have better resources and will be better positioned in time to consistently have an opportunity to achieve more than them. We've been through dark periods in our history before and have bounced back. Those teams, for the most part have spent their entire existence in the lower divisions because its as far as they tend to go.

To emphasise the point, if any of the Norwich or Swansea playes had the chance to sign for us they would take it, thier managers know this.

[Greg N'Ash]

Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.

Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations  Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..

Its called ambition, based on your view of the world we would all be swimming around in some a Darwin sludge pool

eh? whats ambitious about moving to a club with no better chance of success?

Blimey Greg, is everything short term with you? We might not be better off than them right at this moment in time, but we are a bigger club than them, have better resources and will be better positioned in time to consistently have an opportunity to achieve more than them. We've been through dark periods in our history before and have bounced back. Those teams, for the most part have spent their entire existence in the lower divisions because its as far as they tend to go.

To emphasise the point, if any of the Norwich or Swansea playes had the chance to sign for us they would take it, thier managers know this.

we haven't got the money to sign them so it doesn't matter. More to the point if lambert wanted to bring some of his "rubbish" players to improve us he couldn't.

[ROBBO]

Strange i know but i do think Greg has a point. The reserves are doing very well and all cred to the coaches but who remembers who wins the reserves title? The reserves are there to support the first eleven and to bring young players through and to do that they need players with some experience to help them develope. As for up and coming managers i would be wary of one season wonders, Blackpool for half a season looked like title contenders last season would you want their manager? At the end of the day we probably appointed the worst possible option, i just wonder how those who wanted Houllier out at all cost feel about it now.

[Toronto Villa]

Its not like we are playing 4 or 5 accademy players and getting stuffed 10 nil, most times they are holding thier own, not world beaters but hardly walkovers either.

Someone like Lambert's got that already though. decent players no worldbeaters, no money. no expectations  Still no-one has told me why he'd jump ship for the same thing but here he's expected to do much much better..

Its called ambition, based on your view of the world we would all be swimming around in some a Darwin sludge pool

eh? whats ambitious about moving to a club with no better chance of success?

Blimey Greg, is everything short term with you? We might not be better off than them right at this moment in time, but we are a bigger club than them, have better resources and will be better positioned in time to consistently have an opportunity to achieve more than them. We've been through dark periods in our history before and have bounced back. Those teams, for the most part have spent their entire existence in the lower divisions because its as far as they tend to go.

To emphasise the point, if any of the Norwich or Swansea playes had the chance to sign for us they would take it, thier managers know this.

we haven't got the money to sign them so it doesn't matter. More to the point if lambert wanted to bring some of his "rubbish" players to improve us he couldn't.

Which is exactly the opposite of what has been said recently. The main point has always been to get the wages in order. Once they get a relationship between revenues and wages that they can live we will continue to operate accordingly. That still means that we can buy very good players, so the transfer money will be available, but it also means that the wages will not cripple us. No more Sidwell's/Beye's/Young's/Heskey's etc. Essentially bit part players soaking us dry. Surely even you can make the distinction?

[hawkeye]

ah now we're getting somewhere. See this is my worry. People think Lerner is going to loosen the purse strings if a new guy comes in but i think he's convinved a club that basically runs off itself is the way to go despite the almost 100% failure of any club thats run like that to compete. Time will tell but i don't see any money being made available unless we sell the last of the silver (Bent)

of course any new guy is going to have to work the the squad, selling a bloke that scores the odd goal but cant controll a football is not the biggest problem

[Dante Lavelli]

I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.

On the face of it, sure, but the circumstances might not be right. For Rodgers, it might be a safer bet for his career to take it slow at the club he's helped build and knows inside out, rather than risking his short-term reputation on a very big and very difficult re-building job at Villa.

You're probably right Monty - in normal life - but I do not think that footballers and therefore most managers are wired the same.  They have huge egos and think they are better than the rest.  I'd guess that it is this characteristic helps them rise above the many other equally talented players at the younger levels, they just do not doubt their ability.

Look at Carroll for example, he'd have been better learning the ropes at his boyhood club but a bigger team flutters their eyelids and he's off.  On the flipside I wonder whether Curbishley regrets not leaving Charlton when he was highly regarded.  My guess is there are more Carrolls than Curbishleys in football.

[Monty]

I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.

On the face of it, sure, but the circumstances might not be right. For Rodgers, it might be a safer bet for his career to take it slow at the club he's helped build and knows inside out, rather than risking his short-term reputation on a very big and very difficult re-building job at Villa.

You're probably right Monty - in normal life - but I do not think that footballers and therefore most managers are wired the same.  They have huge egos and think they are better than the rest.  I'd guess that it is this characteristic helps them rise above the many other equally talented players at the younger levels, they just do not doubt their ability.

Look at Carroll for example, he'd have been better learning the ropes at his boyhood club but a bigger team flutters their eyelids and he's off.  On the flipside I wonder whether Curbishley regrets not leaving Charlton when he was highly regarded.  My guess is there are more Carrolls than Curbishleys in football.

Well true, but Rodgers in particular is different. He may be the exception, but if he doesn't want to manage Chelsea's rebuilding job and general situation, I can't imagine he wants to come to us.

[hawkeye]

I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.

On the face of it, sure, but the circumstances might not be right. For Rodgers, it might be a safer bet for his career to take it slow at the club he's helped build and knows inside out, rather than risking his short-term reputation on a very big and very difficult re-building job at Villa.

You're probably right Monty - in normal life - but I do not think that footballers and therefore most managers are wired the same.  They have huge egos and think they are better than the rest.  I'd guess that it is this characteristic helps them rise above the many other equally talented players at the younger levels, they just do not doubt their ability.

Look at Carroll for example, he'd have been better learning the ropes at his boyhood club but a bigger team flutters their eyelids and he's off.  On the flipside I wonder whether Curbishley regrets not leaving Charlton when he was highly regarded.  My guess is there are more Carrolls than Curbishleys in football.

Well true, but Rodgers in particular is different. He may be the exception, but if he doesn't want to manage Chelsea's rebuilding job and general situation, I can't imagine he wants to come to us.

Ill think you will find that Rogers recently made a statement sugesting that he is available for the right opportunity.

[Monty]

I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.

On the face of it, sure, but the circumstances might not be right. For Rodgers, it might be a safer bet for his career to take it slow at the club he's helped build and knows inside out, rather than risking his short-term reputation on a very big and very difficult re-building job at Villa.

You're probably right Monty - in normal life - but I do not think that footballers and therefore most managers are wired the same.  They have huge egos and think they are better than the rest.  I'd guess that it is this characteristic helps them rise above the many other equally talented players at the younger levels, they just do not doubt their ability.

Look at Carroll for example, he'd have been better learning the ropes at his boyhood club but a bigger team flutters their eyelids and he's off.  On the flipside I wonder whether Curbishley regrets not leaving Charlton when he was highly regarded.  My guess is there are more Carrolls than Curbishleys in football.

Well true, but Rodgers in particular is different. He may be the exception, but if he doesn't want to manage Chelsea's rebuilding job and general situation, I can't imagine he wants to come to us.

Ill think you will find that Rogers recently made a statement sugesting that he is available for the right opportunity.

Well he very specifically said Chelsea aren't the right opportunity. I doubt Villa would be either.

[hawkeye]

Strange i know but i do think Greg has a point. The reserves are doing very well and all cred to the coaches but who remembers who wins the reserves title? The reserves are there to support the first eleven and to bring young players through and to do that they need players with some experience to help them develope. As for up and coming managers i would be wary of one season wonders, Blackpool for half a season looked like title contenders last season would you want their manager? At the end of the day we probably appointed the worst possible option, i just wonder how those who wanted Houllier out at all cost feel about it now.

I guess that no one believed we would appoint Mcleish.

[hawkeye]

I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.

On the face of it, sure, but the circumstances might not be right. For Rodgers, it might be a safer bet for his career to take it slow at the club he's helped build and knows inside out, rather than risking his short-term reputation on a very big and very difficult re-building job at Villa.

You're probably right Monty - in normal life - but I do not think that footballers and therefore most managers are wired the same.  They have huge egos and think they are better than the rest.  I'd guess that it is this characteristic helps them rise above the many other equally talented players at the younger levels, they just do not doubt their ability.

Look at Carroll for example, he'd have been better learning the ropes at his boyhood club but a bigger team flutters their eyelids and he's off.  On the flipside I wonder whether Curbishley regrets not leaving Charlton when he was highly regarded.  My guess is there are more Carrolls than Curbishleys in football.

Well true, but Rodgers in particular is different. He may be the exception, but if he doesn't want to manage Chelsea's rebuilding job and general situation, I can't imagine he wants to come to us.

Ill think you will find that Rogers recently made a statement sugesting that he is available for the right opportunity.

Well he very specifically said Chelsea aren't the right opportunity. I doubt Villa would be either.

I have no idea, and you dont either.

[Toronto Villa]

I still cannot believe anyone is still suggesting that Swansea or Norwich City jobs, as well as those manager's have done, and irrespective of who/how our chairman/CEO appear publicly that Villa would not be a significant step up and potentially a much, much better job.

On the face of it, sure, but the circumstances might not be right. For Rodgers, it might be a safer bet for his career to take it slow at the club he's helped build and knows inside out, rather than risking his short-term reputation on a very big and very difficult re-building job at Villa.

You're probably right Monty - in normal life - but I do not think that footballers and therefore most managers are wired the same.  They have huge egos and think they are better than the rest.  I'd guess that it is this characteristic helps them rise above the many other equally talented players at the younger levels, they just do not doubt their ability.

Look at Carroll for example, he'd have been better learning the ropes at his boyhood club but a bigger team flutters their eyelids and he's off.  On the flipside I wonder whether Curbishley regrets not leaving Charlton when he was highly regarded.  My guess is there are more Carrolls than Curbishleys in football.

Well true, but Rodgers in particular is different. He may be the exception, but if he doesn't want to manage Chelsea's rebuilding job and general situation, I can't imagine he wants to come to us.

Monty, the criteria at Chelsea is massively different to us. They have an owner that has essentially chewed up some of the best managers in the game because of his obsession with one prize. Rebuilding them comes with the expectation of winning major silverware every season, and within the second year having won the CL. A manager coming to us would do so with far, far less expectation. Hell, given where we have been the last two years, winning 3 or 4 games on the trot would win you a lot followers, let alone a trophy of any nature.

[Dante Lavelli]

Hell, given where we have been the last two years, winning 3 or 4 games on the trot would win you a lot followers, let alone a trophy of any nature.

I agree Toronto.  I think that there could be a "perfect storm" for the next manager.  People are largely over pinning for MON and equally do not expect european qualification.  The Houllier and AMc experiments would afford any manager a large amount of good will.

Then you add the youth coming through and the dead wood leaving meaning that the manager might have a bit of room to do some wheeling and dealing.

[Dave]

If we assume our first choice eleven is Given, Hutton, Collins, Dunne, Warnock, N'Zogbia, Petrov, Ireland Jenas, Agbonlahor and Bent, that would give us reserves of:

Guzan, Cuellar, Clark, Delph, Albrighton, Heskey, Bannan and Delfouneso before we get into the youth team.

So we do have reserves. It's just that most of them are injured. And I'm sure greg you don't expect us to have two whole reserve teams?