Emiliano Martinez - World Cup winner and officially best keeper in the world

[Sexual Ealing]

I say this not to defend the poster in question, but clearly there are degrees of racism. Your nan talking about ordering a 'ch*nkie' is racist, but it's clearly not racist to the same degree as Tommy Robinson's entire career, is it?

[lovejoy]

No. You (andyh) are putting words in my mouth.

I mean shouting the n word in someone's face and clapping to a song you are only half listening to that says if you are from Angola can you really be French.

I'm afraid I can't be more clear. I feel this is a more nuanced argument than many on this thread seem to think and worthy of sensible discussion. I use this forum as a barometer and I learn that this is an emotive subject for many and so perhaps it is best if it is left there before posts become even more polarised.

[Beard82]

Sadly, I am not surprised by any of that.  We just had an election where the a party full of candidates who seem to share similar sentiments to that song won 4m votes. 

It's still rife.  I find it shocking that amount of Racism and Homophopic abuse still happens at my kids school.

[cdbearsfan]

No. You (andyh) are putting words in my mouth.

I mean shouting the n word in someone's face and clapping to a song you are only half listening to that says if you are from Angola can you really be French.

I'm afraid I can't be more clear. I feel this is a more nuanced argument than many on this thread seem to think and worthy of sensible discussion. I use this forum as a barometer and I learn that this is an emotive subject for many and so perhaps it is best if it is left there before posts become even more polarised.

I don't think there is much nuance, to be honest. It's incredibly, horrifically, racist, with a bit of transphobia thrown in. What other possible meaning does the song have?

Please can you point me in the direction of the nuance:

"Listen, spread the word, they play in France, but they are all from Angola, they are going to run well, they like to sleep with trans people, their mum is Nigerian, their dad is Cameroonian, but on the passport it says: French."

I genuinely have no idea where you're coming from so I'd suggest, respectfully, that if you do have a point, you've failed to make it very clearly.

[PeterWithesShin]

The song is very offensive about the people it's aimed at, the issue people have with Lovejoy are his claims it's not THAT bad. He deflects from that by talking about clapping along to it, which isn't the point being made.

[Somniloquism]

I think the nuance from Lovejoy is that there are white people in Africa so they could be talking about them. Obviously they are not though. 

[edgysatsuma89]

No. You (andyh) are putting words in my mouth.

I mean shouting the n word in someone's face and clapping to a song you are only half listening to that says if you are from Angola can you really be French.

I'm afraid I can't be more clear. I feel this is a more nuanced argument than many on this thread seem to think and worthy of sensible discussion. I use this forum as a barometer and I learn that this is an emotive subject for many and so perhaps it is best if it is left there before posts become even more polarised.

I don't think there is much nuance, to be honest. It's incredibly, horrifically, racist, with a bit of transphobia thrown in. What other possible meaning does the song have?

Please can you point me in the direction of the nuance:

"Listen, spread the word, they play in France, but they are all from Angola, they are going to run well, they like to sleep with trans people, their mum is Nigerian, their dad is Cameroonian, but on the passport it says: French."

I genuinely have no idea where you're coming from so I'd suggest, respectfully, that if you do have a point, you've failed to make it very clearly.

Yeah, this. It's so clearly racist. Just because they are mentioning nations, it doesn't mean it's xenophobic and not racist. I don't think that is the brightest take at all.

[Somniloquism]

The song is very offensive about the people it's aimed at, the issue people have with Lovejoy are his claims it's not THAT bad. He deflects from that by talking about clapping along to it, which isn't the point being made.

I suspect that part might be because it looked like Martinez was doing that (although since mentioned the video we see Martinez in maybe wasn't that song).

I personally don't think the only clapping along is a defence of Martinez's actions and he actions does need to be reviewed.

[PeterWithesShin]

It was me that said it, there has been no suggestion that the song we see Emi clapping along with is at all offensive. Reports specify it's the second song at the end of the video and we don't see Emi.

[gpbarr]

Racism is racism - those that talk about nuances just don’t get it, and feed the problem.

The sport is riddled with racism and until we all agree there can be zero tolerance for it, it won’t go away.

And apologies after the fact don't cut it either.

[Dave]

Racism is racism - those that talk about nuances just don’t get it, and feed the problem.

The sport is riddled with racism and until we all agree there can be zero tolerance for it, it won’t go away.

Hmm. I'm curious as to what "zero tolerance" entails here.

Cancel Martinez's contract if he is shown to be singing the song? If he's not singing but clapping along? Not singing along or clapping but being there and not calling it out? Presumably these are all bad, but different degrees of bad, no?

Not cancel his contract for any of the above and just fine him? Just say that it's all bad and we're terribly disappointed and leave it at that?

What's the best way for the club to demonstrate zero tolerance?

[Edvard Remberg]

Racism is racism - those that talk about nuances just don’t get it, and feed the problem.

The sport is riddled with racism and until we all agree there can be zero tolerance for it, it won’t go away.

Hmm. I'm curious as to what "zero tolerance" entails here.

Cancel Martinez's contract if he is shown to be singing the song? If he's not singing but clapping along? Not singing along or clapping but being there and not calling it out? Presumably these are all bad, but different degrees of bad, no?

Not cancel his contract for any of the above and just fine him? Just say that it's all bad and we're terribly disappointed and leave it at that?

What's the best way for the club to demonstrate zero tolerance?

Prison obviously,  just as if he attacked someone on the street because of race... it's all the same.

[PeterWithesShin]

Unless he says anything or someone there says anything about him we'll never know what Emi was doing during the offensive song. He may be conducting it, he may hate it, we just won't know. So I don't see how unless things change he will be open to any kind of punishment.

[kippaxvilla2]

There is a genuinely ignorant form of racism such as the nan one cited by SE above.  The resolution there is education.

Then there is the deliberate act and incitement of racism that Yaxley espouses.  That deserves challenging and appropriate sanction.

Both bad but both having contextual degrees.

[Ads]

I am glad that there is no evidence of him singing the song.