Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on December 20, 2013, 06:44:04 PM
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Available Saturday 21.12.13 @4.50pm
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Oh crap another depressing weekend. The manner of these 3 defeats is very worrying.
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We were shit.......again and got what we deserved. Fuck all.
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Bye bye lambert
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Shit but we must give Lambert till the end of January.
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We were shit.......again and got what we deserved. Fuck all.
Have we lost already?
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three defeats in a row - yep its xmas time again.
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We were shit.......again and got what we deserved. Fuck all.
Have we lost already?
Yes
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Whoever's responsible, fuck off. You've had your chances, and you're shit. Owner, manager, whoever, I don't care. I don't even care that we lost. I'm not even angry, and that's worse, because I expected us to play shit and lose.
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Bye bye lambert
Not a chance he'll get the sack. Our owner doesn't care enough .
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Does Faulkner have Malky's phone number?
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Kozak was good. Sack the rest. Especially Lambert.
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I'd like to know just how much more of this relentless guff we're expected to take. It's an absolute insult to the fans that we put a team out as pathetic as we did today. Just check out that 'first' XI, Championship level at best.
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Switch everything off now to do with football...until the next match.
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I feel like Bill Murray reaching for his alarm clock in Punxsutawney
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Safest job in football, fucking disgraceful.
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I don't like this plan. It's only gonna end one way, as Wigan saw. We're in a scrap again. Our better players will leave because frankly we're a sinking ship. We're not being stabilised.
Today Albrighton and Kozak earned their money today. The rest can face the fiering squad for all I care.
Pathetic. Lambert hasn't got a clue.
And now we have two home games. Brilliant. We're even worse at home.
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Shit but we must give Lambert till the end of January.
He can fuck off right now as far as I'm concerned. Boring and clueless, worst Villa team I have seen in nigh on 25 years
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Poor stuff again and lambert really needs to get this team playing in the next 3 games - if we continue in this way a lot more people will start to turn on him - we have injuries but in truth we have a very poor side and squad and the buck stops with him.
He decided to pack his team with young inexperienced players and shied away from experienced heads - a big fortnight ahead of us .
We are not a midtable side - we are a poor side slipping into trouble .
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Christ. That was the kind of performance which hacks away at a lot of goodwill. They are not a good side, but we were just appalling, absolutely appalling, and so were the 'tactics' - Lambert cannot get away from this one, it was just so incoherent.
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Whoever's responsible, fuck off. You've had your chances, and you're shit. Owner, manager, whoever, I don't care. I don't even care that we lost. I'm not even angry, and that's worse, because I expected us to play shit and lose.
It's getting like that for me - turning up at home matches already numbed - watching the usual dire performance - follow the away "performances" and sigh as the dull horror unfolds - see you Wednesday
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Utter shite to be honest we only a few players coming out of it with any credit.
Thats now 9 goal's conceded since Vlaar went of at HT against Soton.We are an utter shambles the second goal once again came from a cross where the FB where no where to be seen.Tonev was totally ineffective only to be replaced with the equal less effective Bowery.
Boxing day loss to Palace and I suspect it will turn nasty for Lambert however Lerner should take the blame too.That a club who has been in the PL since the inception to be relying on 250k buys from Chesterfield to change a game is an utter joke.
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Comfortably shit.
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I feel like Bill Murray reaching for his alarm clock in Punxsutawney
lol
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Crap again. Is Lerner bothered when we play shit or is he just happy the wage bill has been cut down?
I said these next four games will make my mind up about Lambert. I think I already know the answer.
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Regardless of the results we are a poorer team than last season. I'm really not enjoying the playing side of the club. Things must improve as with the injuries and lack of quality we will soon be fighting amongst the dead men again.
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Switch everything off now to do with football...until the next match.
That's what's shit. Villa make me hate football. I take no pleasure from watching good football, because of envy, and I take no pleasure from watching a team like Palace lose, because we're no better, and possibly worse.
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I can take loosing games but its the way we are loosing.
No shape No sign of a plan No fucking clue!
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Shit but we must give Lambert till the end of January.
He can fuck off right now as far as I'm concerned. Boring and clueless, worst Villa team I have seen in nigh on 25 years
I don't trust his judgement.
He bleats on about having a footballing side but most of his signings can't control, pass or dribble a football. It's pathetic. Once Benteke goes, others will follow, and how often will he sign a Benteke?
I like Kozak and we paid good money for him, but is he good enough to lead a solid Prem side? Not sure. As a squad player, he's decent enough. First 11, week in, week out? No.
He's got to get Jan right. It's his last chance. Personally I see Lambert taking us down, more than I can envision him making us competitive again. He's way out of his depth in this league.
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Lerner needs to stump up some serious cash this transfer window.
We are woefully bad.
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Disappointing that we failed to drag Stoke down to our level. Once again we never looked like scoring, creating nothing and thank goodness for that shocking back header allowing Kozak to score.
Overall, another pathetic performance. Lambert really has brought some consistency to the side. We're looking like we'll soon be in a relegation battle. Thank goodness we have some winnable games coming up. Oh hang on..
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Switch everything off now to do with football...until the next match.
That's what's shit. Villa make me hate football. I take no pleasure from watching good football, because of envy, and I take no pleasure from watching a team like Palace lose, because we're no better, and possibly worse.
I agree with this completely. Villa are killing any love of football I have at the moment. It is very, very depressing.
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"We pick ourselves up and we go again."
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We lose on Boxing day and I'm afraid that's it for Lambert.
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Worst team in 20 years.
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Desperately need to buy some players in January, our defence is a continual worry and our midfield is poor. Someone who can take corners and pass to players on his own team would help. No positives to take from this game, we really should be beating clogger teams like Stoke. God I hate them.
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Does anyone have a gif of the handball?
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Even mcleish wasn't this bad.
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We do not have any game plan. We did the poor game that our opponents wanted to do. Lambert proved once again to be tactically inept and his only idea of football are counterattack and long-balls.
Totally different from the kind of manager that I thought he were when he was at Norwich.
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Safest job in football, fucking disgraceful.
Yep. What manager would take over knowing he had about 55p to spend on players and wages?
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The worst thing about our recent slump is I think we are now the leagues' long ball team.
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I think we're almost there. Just need to sort out the defence, midfield and attack.
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Even mcleish wasn't this bad.
Calm down, it's not that bad.
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Shit but we must give Lambert till the end of January.
He can fuck off right now as far as I'm concerned. Boring and clueless, worst Villa team I have seen in nigh on 25 years
I don't trust his judgement.
He bleats on about having a footballing side but most of his signings can't control, pass or dribble a football. It's pathetic. Once Benteke goes, others will follow, and how often will he sign a Benteke?
I like Kozak and we paid good money for him, but is he good enough to lead a solid Prem side? Not sure. As a squad player, he's decent enough. First 11, week in, week out? No.
He's got to get Jan right. It's his last chance. Personally I see Lambert taking us down, more than I can envision him making us competitive again. He's way out of his depth in this league.
I agree we need to spend,if Randy thinks that is a different matter.
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Even mcleish wasn't this bad.
He really was worse. I don't like what's going on with this, but this Stalinesque airbrushing of history with McLeish will not do. Lambert was shaking his head because he knew it was rubbish - McLeish wouldn't have thought anything was wrong.
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I can take loosing games but its the way we are loosing.
LOSING!! One 'O'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What the fuck do people keep spelling it 'loosing' for???
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I didn't see the match, but if I were to just rewatch the previous two games, would that pretty much cover it?
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A manager that is tactically lost when his one tactic does not work, a team of tryers who are not good enough, but that team put together by this manager, sorry Paul you are out of your depth, you took over from TSM but you are just him, with a nicer personality, Please now leave. We are going nowhere apart from down the table, next two games at home and who would give us a chance of more than two points if we are lucky.
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Worst team in 20 years.
Not even close
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I didn't see the match, but if I were to just rewatch the previous two games, would that pretty much cover it?
With an added goal I suppose.
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All you need to know about Lambert and his "tactics" - his response to Bradford scoring at Villa Park - I am sorry but he really isn`t very good.
Before you ask - what is the alternative? Whoever he is - we can`t afford him !
The Lerner "dream" of a bright future is failing and he does not appear to be interested - similar to his reaction at the Browns.
I am really concerned about the future of my club right now.
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Lerner needs to stump up some serious cash this transfer window.
We are woefully bad.
The most depressing thing for me is that I don't think he would sack him even if we lose the next 3 games .
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I don't know how Lambert has managed it but over the last few weeks he's made us worse to watch than we were under McLeish. That takes some doing.
We're not seeing any sort of progress at all which is starting to really bother me. In fact it's the opposite. Most of our players are getting worse which is a real concern.
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That was painful let's put it behind us and move on to Crystal Palace.
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Switch everything off now to do with football...until the next match.
That's what's shit. Villa make me hate football. I take no pleasure from watching good football, because of envy, and I take no pleasure from watching a team like Palace lose, because we're no better, and possibly worse.
I agree with this completely. Villa are killing any love of football I have at the moment. It is very, very depressing.
Same for me.
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We lose on Boxing day and I'm afraid that's it for Lambert.
I'm no fan of Lambert either, but who would take over knowing our beloved absent chairman has lost all interest in investing in genuine Premier League class players? We've stripped the squad of all quality and replaced them with out of the depth lower league players and cheap foreigners. This is the worst set of players I've seen at Villa since we were relegated in '87.
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I think we're almost there. Just need to sort out the defence, midfield and attack.
In a terrible mood but this just made me laugh out loud. Thanks.
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Worst team in 20 years.
Not even close
I agree, 5 years out, easily 25 years
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Either way, Lerner has to spend - if he sacks Lambert, he needs to back a new bloke, and if he doesn't, he needs to back Lambert.
Personally, I think he needs to make available some serious cash and demand it's spent on two players of genuine quality.
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I can't see us winning any game we play.
We'll be closer to relegation this season, if not relegated.
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All these injuries are showing his signings up for what they are. Crap players.
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The standard of football , the ability on the ball, the quality of passing/crossing, is really quite shocking.As someone said earlier, its what i expect atm.Not sure where to go from here up until 2/3 games ago i bought into the idea of reducing the debt, getting rid of the expensive dross, and bringing in good young, hungry players, and developing a team, an exciting future, but its unravelling in front of us.Bowery is never a Prem player atm, and probably never will be.Albrighton, Westwood,Weimann, Clark, Baker, Lowton, are squad players at best, i'm not sure what Herd is.1 or 2 of these players should be in the 1st team, no more than that.
We must be financially better off now, Randy has got to decide what he wants to do, because for me, unless we spend about £20m in Jan, then i think we are in trouble.
Not sure if i want Lambert to remain here tbh, needs to convince me by the next 2 or 3 signings.
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Lambert needs to go and be replaced by a lower league manager with a winning record.... Step forward Mr Gregory. Nothing would surprise me these days.
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All these injuries are showing his signings up for what they are. Crap players.
They key injuries have largely happened to his signings.
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We were marginally the better side. Result was a coin flip really.
Thing that pisses me off is yet another christmas season loss.
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We were marginally the better side. Result was a coin flip really.
Thing that pisses me off is yet another christmas season loss.
I don't think the word 'better' really applies to anything about that game.
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Switch everything off now to do with football...until the next match.
That's what's shit. Villa make me hate football. I take no pleasure from watching good football, because of envy, and I take no pleasure from watching a team like Palace lose, because we're no better, and possibly worse.
Thats exactly how Villa make me feel, the last few years of Villa misery has affected how I feel about football in general, rarely watch any other football these days just cant be bothered, god I feel miserable.
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Any manager that witnesses a performance like that from his team is bound to be nervous. Especially since it was the second such effort in three weeks. Stoke were shocking too. There was only one moment of quality in the game that I remember, the cross for Stoke's winner.
The behaviour of a number of our players during the game was a disgrace. This is where Lambert really misses a couple of solid pros in the dressing room with him to sort some of this sh*te out. Clark continually getting booked for ridiculous lunging tackles, Herd, Lowton and Delph giving away multiple stupid freekicks. Weimann mouthing constantly at the ref. Once it starts in a team its infectious, far too many of our players were more interested in starting fights that passing the ball to a teammate.
I honestly think if Lambert was given money he still wouldnt address the crippling lack of leadership and experience in the squad. That for me is the worrying thing about keeping him on.
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Between my villa and England I have lost any interest I have had in football nowadays and it hurts
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I'm trying to take consolation n the fact that this time last year we were even more shit than we are now. It got better and we survived. But then we had Benteke's goals. I'm hoping things will pick up again but fuck me I'm struggling to see what Lambert's grand plan is, or what any of his summer signings have added, whilst his first batch have gone backwards.
We have relegation struggle written all over us, yet remain mid-table mainly due to the utter shitness of teams below us and two or three arguably fortunate wins. I should think Lambert's in a spot of bother unless he gets 4 points from the next 6.
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Decent: Guzan, Vlaar, Benteke, Delph, Gabby, Okore
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Meh: Clark, Lowton, Weimann, Albrighton, Kozak
Happy to never see in a Villa shirt again: Baker, Bennett, Luna, Bacuna, El Ahmadi, Tonev, Bowery, Helenius, Westwood, Herd, Sylla
To be fair to Lambert it's hard to imagine anyone achieving anything with that 'squad.' Lerner HAS to do something in January, another relegation scrap is unacceptable.
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We have a bunch of mediocre players playing mediocre football under a mediocre manager.
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Safest job in football, fucking disgraceful.
Yep. What manager would take over knowing he had about 55p to spend on players and wages?
He still wouldn't get the boot even if we went down. All for the same reason mentioned above.
God. I now know how those Browns fans must of felt for all those years under Lerner.
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I've said it many times, this our 4th consecutive season of substandard football where we've been involved in a relegation scrap. This hasn't happened at Villa in decades, yet Lerner gets away with it lock stock and barrel. No wonder he shits on us from such a height when there isn't the faintest flicker of protest.
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Decent: Guzan, Vlaar, Benteke, Delph, Gabby, Okore
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Meh: Clark, Lowton, Weimann, Albrighton, Kozak
Happy to never see in a Villa shirt again: Baker, Bennett, Luna, Bacuna, El Ahmadi, Tonev, Bowery, Helenius, Westwood, Herd, Sylla
To be fair to Lambert it's hard to imagine anyone achieving anything with that 'squad.' Lerner HAS to do something in January, another relegation scrap is unacceptable.
I'd replace 'decent' with 'generally good' and 'meh' with 'can be good'. I agree totally with which players go in which categories, though.
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We have a bunch of mediocre players playing mediocre football under a mediocre manager.
Mediocre? They aren't that good.
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Time Lidl Lambert and his cheap buys are removed from Villa Park but of course our chairman will lock himself away from the helm of the club where he should be.
Lerner's reluctance to be seen in public makes Howard Hughes look like a public extrovert .
I've seen some poor teams at Villa and this lot are right up there with the very worst. They try, but lack of quality which he brought in is now biting Lambert firmly on the arse.
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Switch everything off now to do with football...until the next match.
That's what's shit. Villa make me hate football. I take no pleasure from watching good football, because of envy, and I take no pleasure from watching a team like Palace lose, because we're no better, and possibly worse.
Thats exactly how Villa make me feel, the last few years of Villa misery has affected how I feel about football in general, rarely watch any other football these days just cant be bothered, god I feel miserable.
I do tonight. I feel totally and utterly abject with it all.
As much as I can understand the Lambert bashing, he has a track record of decent attacking football, with creativity in his Norwich side from the likes of Hoolihan and Pilkington etc, and even with us last season.
I think his biggest mistake has been to not spend decent money on 2 new midfielders last summer, and 1 should have been taking back Gareth Barry. He would have come, and would have given leadership. The trouble in the last 3 games is that there has been no leader at all, and it is always like that without Vlaar.
Something has to give come January. Lerner needs to sit with Lambert, identify 2-3 players plus a loan maybe, and give him 15 million to sort out some better standard, with at least 2 players with genuine experience that can be leaders of men on the field.
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After suffering that shite again , if anyone thinks that we are not bang in trouble , then wake up.
Clueless manager - way worse than mcleish - yes - honestly .
If randy or Faulkner have got any idea on football then they need to get rid - we are sleepwalking toward the trap door .
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There's only one team I'd like us to play next, but Crystal Palace are playing them.
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That was atrocious.
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When does the tv money kick in?
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Worst team in 20 years.
Not even close
Which was worse than that starting eleven today then?
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I think we're almost there. Just need to sort out the defence, midfield and attack.
Thats being optimistic, i think it goes even deeper than that!!..
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There always seems to be one team that falls into it, in the New Year and drops like a stone, I would love to see what the bookies odds are that we are that team. The problem being if you are going to give 20 mill in Jan to Lambert, is he going to spend it on 2 players of class, or 6 more duffers and what I cannot work out, if we are paying 6 players who are crap prem league wages, is that going to be so much less that 2 players of quality.
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All these injuries are showing his signings up for what they are. Crap players.
They key injuries have largely happened to his signings.
Mods please - ban this man. He keeps allowing facts to get in the way of the opinions. It just won't do.
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Has there been any links of quality players coming in? At all?
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L...../. Out. Fill in the dots.
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Decent: Guzan, Vlaar, Benteke, Delph, Gabby, Okore
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Meh: Clark, Lowton, Weimann, Albrighton, Kozak
Happy to never see in a Villa shirt again: Baker, Bennett, Luna, Bacuna, El Ahmadi, Tonev, Bowery, Helenius, Westwood, Herd, Sylla
To be fair to Lambert it's hard to imagine anyone achieving anything with that 'squad.' Lerner HAS to do something in January, another relegation scrap is unacceptable.
I'd replace 'decent' with 'generally good' and 'meh' with 'can be good'. I agree totally with which players go in which categories, though.
Having Helenius in the bottom category is pretty pathetic, he was signed with the expectation he'd take a while to settle and has barely had any time on the pitch, making any judgement on him is just silly. Aside from that I'd split the bottom section into squad player and poor section and it'd be a pretty even split of the group between the 2.
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No curious, because he does not sign quality players, he has escaped critiscism because of Benteke the rest of his signings have been crap.
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Utter shite. Lambert is being shown up to being way out his depth I'm afraid. His signings on a whole are terrible. I don't trust him to spend any more money when this is what he assembles. Think it speaks volumes that the majority do not trust him to spend anymore cash on 'his' players.
Lerner should simply sell up, he doesn't care anymore and if this is his brand of football he's happy with as a fan then good god.
In the short term until Lerner sells and has some
Ambition for us then is be happy to see another manager have a go.
PL is very very lucky that he followed AM, he would be getting tons more stick by now if he hadnt
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Worst team in 20 years.
Not even close
What about the team that got relegated?
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I did not support him or agree with his approach , if he had invested at the right time we could be in a different position, he was the stagnation of Aston Vila !However,Doug would be firing him after today.
"Ding, Dong, Mr Lambert to Mr Ellis office please"
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I haven't the will or energy to be angered by that display today. I thought the lads put in a shift but all the limitations we already know about were glaringly apparent. Can we close down the Delph-England thread now? Baker was the only one who did his best to piss me off with his lazy style. Does he think he is Franco Baresi? Bring on the Eagles next to fortress VP. It should be scintillating.
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While I wish al Aston Villa fans a Merry Merry Christmas, as you are not one of us Lambert I hope yours stinks
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Switch everything off now to do with football...until the next match.
That's what's shit. Villa make me hate football. I take no pleasure from watching good football, because of envy, and I take no pleasure from watching a team like Palace lose, because we're no better, and possibly worse.
Thats exactly how Villa make me feel, the last few years of Villa misery has affected how I feel about football in general, rarely watch any other football these days just cant be bothered, god I feel miserable.
I do tonight. I feel totally and utterly abject with it all.
As much as I can understand the Lambert bashing, he has a track record of decent attacking football, with creativity in his Norwich side from the likes of Hoolihan and Pilkington etc, and even with us last season.
I think his biggest mistake has been to not spend decent money on 2 new midfielders last summer, and 1 should have been taking back Gareth Barry. He would have come, and would have given leadership. The trouble in the last 3 games is that there has been no leader at all, and it is always like that without Vlaar.
Something has to give come January. Lerner needs to sit with Lambert, identify 2-3 players plus a loan maybe, and give him 15 million to sort out some better standard, with at least 2 players with genuine experience that can be leaders of men on the field.
agree totally, Lambert made some very poor decisions in the summer with where he spent his budget.
but even considering the players we had out against Fulham and Stoke, we shouldnt be getting beat by either.
watching herd and baker's attempts with the ball today, they have been at Villa since they were kids. What kind of coaching have they been getting?
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I could take the defeats if we were trying some cutting edge new style of play or implementing a sophisticated new tactic or formation, to give us an advantage despite having a cheap squad. But we're playing the boring shitty old dark ages football that doesn't produce consistent results and is shite to watch.
I know it must be tough with the players he's got but he bought most of them.
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L...../. Out. Fill in the dots.
5 dots. Tricky.
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I find it baffling that there haven't even been questionable rumours of incomings thus far. Fulham have already tied up a loan deal.
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Decent: Guzan, Vlaar, Benteke, Delph, Gabby, Okore
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Meh: Clark, Lowton, Weimann, Albrighton, Kozak
Happy to never see in a Villa shirt again: Baker, Bennett, Luna, Bacuna, El Ahmadi, Tonev, Bowery, Helenius, Westwood, Herd, Sylla
To be fair to Lambert it's hard to imagine anyone achieving anything with that 'squad.' Lerner HAS to do something in January, another relegation scrap is unacceptable.
I'd replace 'decent' with 'generally good' and 'meh' with 'can be good'. I agree totally with which players go in which categories, though.
Having Helenius in the bottom category is pretty pathetic, he was signed with the expectation he'd take a while to settle and has barely had any time on the pitch, making any judgement on him is just silly. Aside from that I'd split the bottom section into squad player and poor section and it'd be a pretty even split of the group between the 2.
I'm assuming that if Helenius can't get in the squad now ahead of the likes of Bowery he can't be any good, but I take your point.
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And the best Christmas present would be for a Lambert resignation and Lerner selling to anyone who actually gave a fuck
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During my 50 years of watching AVFC I have seen some dire football and talentless players - the big difference from the 1960`s, 1970`s is that this lot is paid a shitload of money for being .....Shit !!!!
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Unless Vlaar gets back quickly and stays fit, we are going to be in trouble. Plenty of effort and spirit, but no composure or leadership. 5 players booked is a damning statistic.
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Suggestions that we should stick with Lambert until the end of January don't make sense. By that point a new manager - if you can get one - is unable to use any contacts to beg/steal/borrow loan signings or buy any body he can with the £500k available. If Lambert goes it has to be no later than after we lose at Sunderland on New Years Day. New Year New Start No Lambert
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I find it baffling that there haven't even been questionable rumours of incomings thus far. Fulham have already tied up a loan deal.
Because Lerner doesn't give a shit anymore. What a disgrace after 7 years in charge, bright future?
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Lamberts comments ..felt we were excellent first half and had chances in the 2nd....WTF
Oh and Benteke is out of Palace game ...
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I could take the defeats if we were trying some cutting edge new style of play or implementing a sophisticated new tactic or formation, to give us an advantage despite having a cheap squad. But we're playing the boring shitty old dark ages football that doesn't produce consistent results and is shite to watch.
I know it must be tough with the players he's got but he bought most of them.
It's not even dark ages, it's not even negative and it's not even specifically long ball: it's just planless. It's like they don't even train together, let alone practice pass-and-move in any sophisticated way - they just turn up on matchday and improvise, to no success.
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I could take the defeats if we were trying some cutting edge new style of play or implementing a sophisticated new tactic or formation, to give us an advantage despite having a cheap squad. But we're playing the boring shitty old dark ages football that doesn't produce consistent results and is shite to watch.
I know it must be tough with the players he's got but he bought most of them.
It's not even dark ages, it's not even negative and it's not even specifically long ball: it's just planless. It's like they don't even train together, let alone practice pass-and-move in any sophisticated way - they just turn up on matchday and improvise, to no success.
Nail on head.
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Lamberts comments ..felt we were excellent first half and had chances in the 2nd....WTF
Oh and Benteke is out of Palace game ...
Dear god
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I seem to recall one of the reasons, maybe the main reason, given for disposing of the "services" of TSM was the desire for a more "compelling brand of football". I'm afraid Lambert's brand of football is currently as compelling as sticking a red hot knitting needle up your jap's eye.
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Lamberts comments ..felt we were excellent first half and had chances in the 2nd....WTF
Oh and Benteke is out of Palace game ...
Dear god
Yes, but it's not an 8-0...
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Hello Chaps, i stated at the start of the week after Spurs had followed the baggies lead and sacked their manager ,that Lambert was lucky too be in a job and was shot down by some on here. One poster on here even said "lucky" we are 11th .Unless we get rid of this clueless bloke , there is only one place we are headed and that is the championship.
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It doesn't matter what style of football we play, the players are just not Premier League standard. Things won't change till Lerner realises he has to fill our squad with Premier League players and not lower league dross.
Nothing will change until this happens.
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I am fuckin dreading going to the Palace game, I am supposed to look forward to matches ffs, gotta lift myself as off out on a xmas night out but its so hard.
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I seem to recall one of the reasons, maybe the main reason, given for disposing of the "services" of TSM was the desire for a more "compelling brand of football". I'm afraid Lambert's brand of football is currently as compelling as sticking a red hot knitting needle up your jap's eye.
The difference is he knows it's rubbish and is trying to make it better. I do agree that he may not be able to, but the difference between him and McLeish is stark.
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I seem to recall one of the reasons, maybe the main reason, given for disposing of the "services" of TSM was the desire for a more "compelling brand of football". I'm afraid Lambert's brand of football is currently as compelling as sticking a red hot knitting needle up your jap's eye.
I am more compelled to opt for the second option than go to Villa Park this Christmas period
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It would be helpful if we knew if Lambert really had no choice in his transfer policy, or if he genuinely thinks the likes of Bowery and Tonev are up to the task of competing with your Silvas and Suarezes.
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Charlie Adam goal (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18ovbv_charlie-adam-goal-1-0-stoke-city-vs-aston-villa-21-12-2013_sport?)
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I seem to recall one of the reasons, maybe the main reason, given for disposing of the "services" of TSM was the desire for a more "compelling brand of football". I'm afraid Lambert's brand of football is currently as compelling as sticking a red hot knitting needle up your jap's eye.
The difference is he knows it's rubbish and is trying to make it better. I do agree that he may not be able to, but the difference between him and McLeish is stark.
When we sacked McLeish we thought the bad times were behind us, but can anyone genuinely claim things are better since then? It's worse in my opinion. McLeish was made a scapegoat because of where he came from. Lambert has got away with absolute murder since he arrived serving up some of the most humiliating results in our history, yet here he is still in a job. I think that just about sums up what Randy Lerner thinks of Aston Villa.
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My biggest complaint today is that he brought Bowery on. I have nothing major against Bowery, he works had and seems a decent lad but he's not the player to bring on just after you've equalised and need to build a bit of pressure. Our bench was weak today as we have a fair few injuries but Robinson on the bench in place of Bowery and we'd have had a natural replacement to put wide left. As it was the sub just broke our shape completely.
As for Lamberts comments, we were the better side for the first half hour and it was pretty even for the rest of the half, they then scored because we turned off after giving away a free kick on the halfway line and even then Baker was drawn in to easily which allowed Adam to chest it into space.
I think the comments on here about us making them look like Brazil and this being the worst team for 20years are all a bit emotive, we aren't creating enough chances, everyone knows that, and since our captain went off injured we've lost the balance in defence but the squad really isn't as bad as some people are saying.
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It's not even dark ages, it's not even negative and it's not even specifically long ball: it's just planless. It's like they don't even train together, let alone practice pass-and-move in any sophisticated way - they just turn up on matchday and improvise, to no success.
That's it: it's nothing football. Anti-football. There's just an enormous void where there's supposed to be a team of skilled professionals carrying out a specific set of instructions from the manager.
But frankly the void goes all the way to the top. There's an almost total absence of leadership at board level: no plan, no drive, no ambition and no communication.
W really do need someone to come in and grab the club by the scruff of the neck.
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I seem to recall one of the reasons, maybe the main reason, given for disposing of the "services" of TSM was the desire for a more "compelling brand of football". I'm afraid Lambert's brand of football is currently as compelling as sticking a red hot knitting needle up your jap's eye.
The difference is he knows it's rubbish and is trying to make it better. I do agree that he may not be able to, but the difference between him and McLeish is stark.
How's that then? How is Lambert trying to make it better?
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I don't trust Lambert to spend whatever money is available next month wisely. We don't need more of the same we need real quality and tbh there is an increasingly compelling argument that we need to replace most of the current squad; a squad largely built in PL's image, and one that simply isn't working.
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I seem to recall one of the reasons, maybe the main reason, given for disposing of the "services" of TSM was the desire for a more "compelling brand of football". I'm afraid Lambert's brand of football is currently as compelling as sticking a red hot knitting needle up your jap's eye.
The difference is he knows it's rubbish and is trying to make it better. I do agree that he may not be able to, but the difference between him and McLeish is stark.
Hardly. TSM's main tactic was not to lose. Lambert's is not to play. Both are clueless.
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Charlie Adam goal (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18ovbv_charlie-adam-goal-1-0-stoke-city-vs-aston-villa-21-12-2013_sport?)
Dismally weak defending.
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Anyone who thinks we are not heading for another relegation scrap needs to have a good look at himself.
So what the fuck is taking off Tonev who is useless and putting on Bowerey is useless about, do we have any more bargain basement Lambert buys who can hust fill a shirt and fuck all else?
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I seem to recall one of the reasons, maybe the main reason, given for disposing of the "services" of TSM was the desire for a more "compelling brand of football". I'm afraid Lambert's brand of football is currently as compelling as sticking a red hot knitting needle up your jap's eye.
The difference is he knows it's rubbish and is trying to make it better. I do agree that he may not be able to, but the difference between him and McLeish is stark.
How's that then? How is Lambert trying to make it better?
Well, for those with no memories, today he played an incoherent but definitely attacking 4-2-4, whereas McLeish played Hutton in midfield. Does anything else need to be said?
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I don't trust Lambert to spend whatever money is available next month wisely. We don't need more of the same we need real quality and tbh there is an increasingly compelling argument that we need to replace most of the current squad; a squad largely built in PL's image, and one that simply isn't working.
If lasts season January transfer window is anything to go by I don't think you'll have to worry too much on that score .
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I seem to recall one of the reasons, maybe the main reason, given for disposing of the "services" of TSM was the desire for a more "compelling brand of football". I'm afraid Lambert's brand of football is currently as compelling as sticking a red hot knitting needle up your jap's eye.
The difference is he knows it's rubbish and is trying to make it better. I do agree that he may not be able to, but the difference between him and McLeish is stark.
How's that then? How is Lambert trying to make it better?
Well, for those with no memories, today he played an incoherent but definitely attacking 4-2-4, whereas McLeish played Hutton in midfield. Does anything else need to be said?
Sorry I wasn't comparing Lambert with McLeish, you said he's trying to make it better and if McLeish is the benchmark he's set about bettering then we should all pack up and go home now.
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Well, for those with no memories, today he played an incoherent but definitely attacking 4-2-4, whereas McLeish played Hutton in midfield. Does anything else need to be said?
Why compare him only to McLeish though? A man who should never have got the job in the first place. Unless it's the only way we can think of to make him appear not so bad.
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I seem to recall one of the reasons, maybe the main reason, given for disposing of the "services" of TSM was the desire for a more "compelling brand of football". I'm afraid Lambert's brand of football is currently as compelling as sticking a red hot knitting needle up your jap's eye.
The difference is he knows it's rubbish and is trying to make it better. I do agree that he may not be able to, but the difference between him and McLeish is stark.
When we sacked McLeish we thought the bad times were behind us, but can anyone genuinely claim things are better since then? It's worse in my opinion. McLeish was made a scapegoat because of where he came from. Lambert has got away with absolute murder since he arrived serving up some of the most humiliating results in our history, yet here he is still in a job. I think that just about sums up what Randy Lerner thinks of Aston Villa.
It is far worse than under Alex McLeish.
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Well, for those with no memories, today he played an incoherent but definitely attacking 4-2-4, whereas McLeish played Hutton in midfield. Does anything else need to be said?
Why compare him only to McLeish though? A man who should never have got the job in the first place. Unless it's the only way we can think of to make him appear not so bad.
That's true, and I was just answering the very specific 'it's worse than McLeish' complaint which has been going around.
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I seem to recall one of the reasons, maybe the main reason, given for disposing of the "services" of TSM was the desire for a more "compelling brand of football". I'm afraid Lambert's brand of football is currently as compelling as sticking a red hot knitting needle up your jap's eye.
The difference is he knows it's rubbish and is trying to make it better. I do agree that he may not be able to, but the difference between him and McLeish is stark.
How's that then? How is Lambert trying to make it better?
Well, for those with no memories, today he played an incoherent but definitely attacking 4-2-4, whereas McLeish played Hutton in midfield. Does anything else need to be said?
Why not? We were paying him £60k a week. Lambert is paid to manage not fall out with players who he can't handle.
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Worst team in 20 years.
Not even close
What about the team that got relegated?
We haven't been relegated in the last 20 years.
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I don't trust Lambert to spend whatever money is available next month wisely. We don't need more of the same we need real quality and tbh there is an increasingly compelling argument that we need to replace most of the current squad; a squad largely built in PL's image, and one that simply isn't working.
If lasts season January transfer window is anything to go by I don't think you'll have to worry too much on that score .
To counter that the players we've spent decent money on (Benteke, Okore, Kozak and Vlaar) all look like good signings, it's the squad filler £1m signings that are struggling to settle and improve the team. As I've said before, he's done a job of filling the squad up with players who he believes have the right attitude, etc. What he desperately needs to do now is look to make signings who are ready to start regularly and improve the team. Where things are going against him is the amount of injuries to the key players, Vlaar and Benteke being the obvious ones.
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Well, for those with no memories, today he played an incoherent but definitely attacking 4-2-4, whereas McLeish played Hutton in midfield. Does anything else need to be said?
Why compare him only to McLeish though? A man who should never have got the job in the first place. Unless it's the only way we can think of to make him appear not so bad.
Lambert's record IS bad. Everyone knows McLeish was awful, but he's gone, he's history and he can't do us anymore harm. Lambert is still here though and he's still inflicting pain and misery on us with practically every passing week.
And in my opinion he's every bit as bad if not worse than McLeish. It's a truly desperate argument when you have to refer back to McLeish to make you feel a little bit better about the mess we're in right now. And it's well past it's sell by date as well.
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Realistically who else is there... If anyone mentions Curbs then I'm off !!!
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I seem to recall one of the reasons, maybe the main reason, given for disposing of the "services" of TSM was the desire for a more "compelling brand of football". I'm afraid Lambert's brand of football is currently as compelling as sticking a red hot knitting needle up your jap's eye.
The difference is he knows it's rubbish and is trying to make it better. I do agree that he may not be able to, but the difference between him and McLeish is stark.
How's that then? How is Lambert trying to make it better?
Well, for those with no memories, today he played an incoherent but definitely attacking 4-2-4, whereas McLeish played Hutton in midfield. Does anything else need to be said?
Why not? We were paying him £60k a week. Lambert is paid to manage not fall out with players who he can't handle.
Come on DC5, I know you have a higher opinion of McLeish than most of us and that's fine, but do you really think Hutton was a) worth how much we were paying for him, or b) suitable to play on the wing? It's his most notorious decision. Even Spurs fans I know said they felt depressed when they saw that.
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Realistically who else is there... If anyone mentions Curbs then I'm off !!!
CURBS
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I seem to recall one of the reasons, maybe the main reason, given for disposing of the "services" of TSM was the desire for a more "compelling brand of football". I'm afraid Lambert's brand of football is currently as compelling as sticking a red hot knitting needle up your jap's eye.
The difference is he knows it's rubbish and is trying to make it better. I do agree that he may not be able to, but the difference between him and McLeish is stark.
Hardly. TSM's main tactic was not to lose. Lambert's is not to play. Both are clueless.
I loathed and despised McLeish and his negativity but at least you knew he had a diiscernable tactical strategy, style and approach. Which was cack and you knew it always would be. I've genuinely no idea no idea what Lambert's tactical strategy, style or approach is, it seems to change on a monthly basis. It's still cack, but I suppose, unlike McLeish, there is at least the chance it might not be quite so cack next month.
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Aidy Boothroyd.
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Well, for those with no memories, today he played an incoherent but definitely attacking 4-2-4, whereas McLeish played Hutton in midfield. Does anything else need to be said?
Why compare him only to McLeish though? A man who should never have got the job in the first place. Unless it's the only way we can think of to make him appear not so bad.
It's nothing like as bad as it was under McLeish.
I am sure Lambert wants us to play better football, but he doesn't appear to know how to.
McLeish had no ideas about playing good football, what we did under him was what his teams do
I am very worried about Lambert, though, his signings look almost all rubbish.
I also think there's a gigantic amount of delusion about the club re this policy of theirs. It's not just a case of buying cheap, young, low wage, ambitious players. It's about buying *good* players, too, and that is the problem. Too many of them really aren't very good.
I also think there's a tendency to think "well, we just need to wait till they're more experienced, because then we'll start to improve considerably", but that is nonsense. There's no guarantee that any of these players will become of a decent quality, let alone all of them.
It's a risky, risky game to play, and you have to wonder to what extent the board's acceptance of this plan is about it being feasible (surely, if it were that easy, everyone would be doing it?), and to what extent it is about it being cheap.
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Realistically who else is there... If anyone mentions Curbs then I'm off !!!
Malky
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It's a risky, risky game to play, and you have to wonder to what extent the board's acceptance of this plan is about it being feasible (surely, if it were that easy, everyone would be doing it?), and to what extent it is about it being cheap.
I think basically it's about doing the minimum required to prevent relegation.
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It's a risky, risky game to play, and you have to wonder to what extent the board's acceptance of this plan is about it being feasible (surely, if it were that easy, everyone would be doing it?), and to what extent it is about it being cheap.
I think basically it's about doing the minimum required to prevent relegation.
Lord Lucan does know there is such a thing as relegation right?
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Actually TSM1 had less money than TSM2 has been given. I doubt if TSM 1 would have spotted or signed Benteke, I doubt though that he would have bought the bundles of garbage that Lambert has signed.
Football wise, well at least you could see what TSM1 was trying to do (not lose and hang on to his job).
Any one have any idea what Lambert is doing?
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Di cani....
Di matteo, avb, dean smith, George graham,
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Another bad one then?
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Well, for those with no memories, today he played an incoherent but definitely attacking 4-2-4, whereas McLeish played Hutton in midfield. Does anything else need to be said?
Why compare him only to McLeish though? A man who should never have got the job in the first place. Unless it's the only way we can think of to make him appear not so bad.
It's nothing like as bad as it was under McLeish.
I am sure Lambert wants us to play better football, but he doesn't appear to know how to.
McLeish had no ideas about playing good football, what we did under him was what his teams do
I am very worried about Lambert, though, his signings look almost all rubbish.
I also think there's a gigantic amount of delusion about the club re this policy of theirs. It's not just a case of buying cheap, young, low wage, ambitious players. It's about buying *good* players, too, and that is the problem. Too many of them really aren't very good.
I also think there's a tendency to think "well, we just need to wait till they're more experienced, because then we'll start to improve considerably", but that is nonsense. There's no guarantee that any of these players will become of a decent quality, let alone all of them.
It's a risky, risky game to play, and you have to wonder to what extent the board's acceptance of this plan is about it being feasible (surely, if it were that easy, everyone would be doing it?), and to what extent it is about it being cheap.
For me the next stage of the process is to identify which of the signings have worked and which haven't and then replace the ones who haven't with players of higher quality. For me I'd be looking to move on KEA and Bowery and replace them with a couple of 5-6m midfielders to improve the team. After that we can see if that brings more from some of the others and review it next summer, again looking for 2-3 who aren't cutting it and replace them with bit of quality.
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This sounds really poor again after reading the thread.
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Suggestions that we should stick with Lambert until the end of January don't make sense. By that point a new manager - if you can get one - is unable to use any contacts to beg/steal/borrow loan signings or buy any body he can with the £500k available. If Lambert goes it has to be no later than after we lose at Sunderland on New Years Day. New Year New Start No Lambert
Agreed.
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Di cani....
Di matteo, avb, dean smith, George graham,
No, no, no and no thankyou!
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All goals (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/stoke-2-aston-villa-1-all-goals/)
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There must be a time when Lerner realises he has to invest again. He needs to invest in January just to keep us clear of the drop, but come the summer he has to start acting like the chairman he was in his early days and at least give the manager the tools to actually compete in the Premier League. If he doesn't then it's time to sell up.
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Where is Lord Lucan these days? Has he been over this season at all?
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There must be a time when Lerner realises he has to invest again. He needs to invest in January just to keep us clear of the drop, but come the summer he has to start acting like the chairman he was in his early days and at least give the manager the tools to actually compete in the Premier League. If he doesn't then it's time to sell up.
He has invested, though, that's the thing. How much has Lambert spent? 40 plus million?
But they're all from the (relatively) low wage bracket. If that's to fit in with constraints set by the club, then it is very worrying.
We're going to have to buy better players than we have. Not millions of them, just one or two, then maybe they'll help bring back some of the quality the cheaper players showed in patches last season.
If he's trying to prove something with the cheap approach, then it's not working, and it never will.
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Allardyce.
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Suggestions that we should stick with Lambert until the end of January don't make sense. By that point a new manager - if you can get one - is unable to use any contacts to beg/steal/borrow loan signings or buy any body he can with the £500k available. If Lambert goes it has to be no later than after we lose at Sunderland on New Years Day. New Year New Start No Lambert
Agreed.
Anyone who thinks Lambert is going to be getting sacked is kidding themselves.
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Allardyce.
Sack Lambert for the shit football and bad results, and replace him with a manager playing even shitter football and currently getting even shitter results.
That'll work.
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Suggestions that we should stick with Lambert until the end of January don't make sense. By that point a new manager - if you can get one - is unable to use any contacts to beg/steal/borrow loan signings or buy any body he can with the £500k available. If Lambert goes it has to be no later than after we lose at Sunderland on New Years Day. New Year New Start No Lambert
Agreed.
Anyone who thinks Lambert is going to be getting sacked is kidding themselves.
Or that Lerner will throw the towel in.
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He really isn't going anywhere is he and the club is now rudderless off the field and deficient on the field.
As previously mentioned, this whole thing is starting to make me dislike football.
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Thing is RL bought Villa for £60m, whats it worth now..£200m? To protect your investment, you need to at least maintain its status.Lack of decent investment will severely threaten that.We have been skirting with relegation now or 4/5 years, its too long.
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There must be a time when Lerner realises he has to invest again. He needs to invest in January just to keep us clear of the drop, but come the summer he has to start acting like the chairman he was in his early days and at least give the manager the tools to actually compete in the Premier League. If he doesn't then it's time to sell up.
He has invested, though, that's the thing. How much has Lambert spent? 40 plus million?
But they're all from the (relatively) low wage bracket. If that's to fit in with constraints set by the club, then it is very worrying.
We're going to have to buy better players than we have. Not millions of them, just one or two, then maybe they'll help bring back some of the quality the cheaper players showed in patches last season.
If he's trying to prove something with the cheap approach, then it's not working, and it never will.
Agreed, it's the wages that are the real problem, I get that. There are always bargains to get in the transfer market but you have to pay the going rate in wages. Just think of the difference Gareth Barry would have made in our team yet we wouldn't touch him because of his wages. There has to be a serious re-think re wages or we may well be in serious trouble come May, and if we ever want to compete in the top 6 again we have to show the money. Otherwise what's the point? The fans aren't going to take this dross forever.
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Suggestions that we should stick with Lambert until the end of January don't make sense. By that point a new manager - if you can get one - is unable to use any contacts to beg/steal/borrow loan signings or buy any body he can with the £500k available. If Lambert goes it has to be no later than after we lose at Sunderland on New Years Day. New Year New Start No Lambert
Agreed.
Anyone who thinks Lambert is going to be getting sacked is kidding themselves.
Or that Lerner will throw the towel in.
Let me know when he does, it's kind of hard to tell right now.
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Suggestions that we should stick with Lambert until the end of January don't make sense. By that point a new manager - if you can get one - is unable to use any contacts to beg/steal/borrow loan signings or buy any body he can with the £500k available. If Lambert goes it has to be no later than after we lose at Sunderland on New Years Day. New Year New Start No Lambert
Agreed.
Anyone who thinks Lambert is going to be getting sacked is kidding themselves.
Or that Lerner will throw the towel in.
Or that any decent Manager will come to a job with his hands tied behind his back, we are fcukd
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Suggestions that we should stick with Lambert until the end of January don't make sense. By that point a new manager - if you can get one - is unable to use any contacts to beg/steal/borrow loan signings or buy any body he can with the £500k available. If Lambert goes it has to be no later than after we lose at Sunderland on New Years Day. New Year New Start No Lambert
Agreed.
Anyone who thinks Lambert is going to be getting sacked is kidding themselves.
Suggestions that we should stick with Lambert until the end of January don't make sense. By that point a new manager - if you can get one - is unable to use any contacts to beg/steal/borrow loan signings or buy any body he can with the £500k available. If Lambert goes it has to be no later than after we lose at Sunderland on New Years Day. New Year New Start No Lambert
Agreed.
Anyone who thinks Lambert is going to be getting sacked is kidding themselves.
I tend to agree but I remember people on here saying McLeish would be going nowhere.
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From Pravda:
Paul Lambert spoke of his frustration following the defeat to Stoke, insisting: "I don't think we deserved to lose that game."
Lambert watched on as Charlie Adam gave the Potters the lead before Libor Kozak benefitted from a mistake to slot home the equaliser.
But former Villa striker Peter Crouch was on hand to earn the victory at the Britannia Stadium for the home side.
Lambert was pleased with the effort and quality in the first half, as Villa enjoyed the advantage of a prevailing wind.
And the boss also felt his team earned several opportunities after the break as they endeavoured into the typically-strong breeze.
Asked if Villa did enough to get something, he said: "I thought so. I really did. I thought we were worthy of a point from it.
"I thought we were excellent in the first half. I thought we dominated the first half and looked threatening.
"Even in the second half we had chances. The goalkeeper made a good save from Kozak. It was a close game.
"We thought when we got to 1-1 we might have gone on. We looked as if we could go on and sneak it. Sometimes you get it. Sometimes you don't.
"The last two games we have been disappointing but in this one I couldn't fault them for their effort and the way they played. We might have got an equaliser.
"The wind was very strong out there. The conditions were hard for both teams. We had it in the first half. Stoke had it in the second half.
"There was some good play from both sides. But I don't think we deserved to really lose the game."
Lambert also gave his verdict on the contentious moment when Marc Wilson could have been given his marching orders in the first half, as he upended Andi Weimann as the last man, only to see yellow.
The manager added: "I had a word with the referee and just asked his opinion of it.
"His verdict was that the keeper had the ball safely in his hands.
"Andi has got there first. But you have to respect the decisions. Sometimes you get them. Sometimes you don't. He interprets how he interprets it. You have to go with his decision."
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Switch everything off now to do with football...until the next match.
Did you mean March?
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Suggestions that we should stick with Lambert until the end of January don't make sense. By that point a new manager - if you can get one - is unable to use any contacts to beg/steal/borrow loan signings or buy any body he can with the £500k available. If Lambert goes it has to be no later than after we lose at Sunderland on New Years Day. New Year New Start No Lambert
Agreed.
Anyone who thinks Lambert is going to be getting sacked is kidding themselves.
Suggestions that we should stick with Lambert until the end of January don't make sense. By that point a new manager - if you can get one - is unable to use any contacts to beg/steal/borrow loan signings or buy any body he can with the £500k available. If Lambert goes it has to be no later than after we lose at Sunderland on New Years Day. New Year New Start No Lambert
Agreed.
Anyone who thinks Lambert is going to be getting sacked is kidding themselves.
I tend to agree but I remember people on here saying McLeish would be going nowhere.
Yes but it was the end of the season-not January
RL new that if he kept Mcliesh he would hardly sell another season ticket, that is the only thing that will drive Lerner.
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Paulie I don't disagree with your thinking that he WILL go just he should if we don't get a minimum of 4 points from the next two games. As for who we'd get.........my mum's not doing much these days.............couldn't do worse
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"The last two games we have been disappointing but in this one I couldn't fault them for their effort and the way they played. We might have got an equaliser.
I know he's limited in what he can say, but I hope he doesn't really believe this.
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But this is the thing I do not understand 2 players of class, 60k a week, 6 players of crap 20k a week same outgoing, problem is with the Villa at the moment is we lack leadership on the field, leadership from the Manager and no leadership from the top echelons, in other words we are going nowhere but into a downward spiral very very quickly, pay for monkeys and you get monkeys.
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Wages are the problem, get good players you say but why would anyone decent come to Villa when other clubs will pay them more? toward the end of the Doug era all i wanted was for him to sell up to a new owner, well now i'm in that position again i want an owner who comes to games, at least Doug was there suffering with the fans.
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"The last two games we have been disappointing but in this one I couldn't fault them for their effort and the way they played. We might have got an equaliser.
I know he's limited in what he can say, but I hope he doesn't really believe this.
This is what worries me, I know people say he can't criticise the players in public but still.
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We can blame Lambert as much as we like and I want to. But the bottom line is if you as a club decide to shop at Lidl then the likelihood you are not going to end up with Harrods merchandise.
It isn't that hard to work out that to stand a reasonable chance of competing in this league you need to spend money and if you don't do that the very least you need is some experienced heads in the team.
We are now happy treading water as the ambition. Where once we were ambitious enough to try for the league, we then lowered our expectations to trying for Europe. To today's ambition survival.
The owner doesn't seem in the least bit interested anymore. Lambert was about the best appointment we could have made given the spending limitations.
I don't think he's doing a very good job and has had a lot of tolerance from the supporters. But changing him out wouldn't work in my opinion as someone else comes through the revolving door with the same constraints.
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"The last two games we have been disappointing but in this one I couldn't fault them for their effort and the way they played. We might have got an equaliser.
I know he's limited in what he can say, but I hope he doesn't really believe this.
I think the near-constant headshaking towards the end of the match was more telling.
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The fact he says we were excellent in the 1st half and dominated the game leaves me cold .
I have rarely felt less enthusiastic about football and don't really see lerner sacking lambert even if we lose the next few games - I think we are on a slide and heading one way right now , and i struggle to see a way out of this.
We have problems in all areas of the pitch and a squad woefully lacking in quality with a manager who I have no real faith in to sort the mess - it really is a bleak situation all round .
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Yeah maybe Doug taken into content had alot more in common with the support than we ever gave him credit for, I think Mr. Lambert would have been walked around the rose garden before today, or definetaly after today, P45 and taxi for Lambert
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"The last two games we have been disappointing but in this one I couldn't fault them for their effort and the way they played. We might have got an equaliser.
I know he's limited in what he can say, but I hope he doesn't really believe this.
I think he does, it does not matter how shit we are he comes out with the same crap, a more honest assessment might allow us to believe he is going to do something about it. Based on the way we are playing he either does not think there is a problem or does not know how to solve it. Either way we are in deep shit.
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My match ratings.
Guzan - 6. Points deducted for not having the guts to walk off in disgust.
Lowton, Herd & Clark- 2. (For putting their shorts on the right way round)
Baker - 1. A lamp-post wearing football boots. Never a footballer in a million years.
Delph - 4. Brainless booking yet again. Thinks he's hard, you're kidding no-one son.
Tonev - 2. The rest were playing football, what were you doing?
Westwood - 3. Invisible, points awarded for last season's goal here.
Weimman - 3. Motormouth, full of running but so's a steeplechaser, as threatening as a water pistol.
Kozak - 5. Scored, didn't hide, meh.
Albrighton -6. A reasonable display standing out as better than it was because it was surrounded by pap.
I despair. The Villa could make a grown man weep these days. Happy Christmas.
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Tonev - 2. The rest were playing football, what were you doing?
Are you sure they were?
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uld have made given the spending limitations.
I don't think he's doing a very good job and has had a lot of tolerance from the supporters. But changing him out wouldn't work in my opinion as someone else comes through the revolving door with the same constraints.
If whoever we replaced him with is going to have to work to that same wage structure and budget, then there's really no point ever getting rid of him, because it won't ever get better.
In fact, what will happen is we'll bob along - like a larger version of Wigan - for a few years, clinging on and then get relegated, because, whoever the manager is, we are going to have to start to buy players from a level better than those we have at the moment, and pretty quickly, too.
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Reaction to a Tonev shot:
(http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/213892-1/Baby-fireworks-reaction.gif)
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we've created the perfect storm here. no real investment, no real direction, no real ambition, no real players and no real manager. What is it going to take to break the cycle of non reality? My guess is that even relegation wouldn't result in a managerial change
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uld have made given the spending limitations.
I don't think he's doing a very good job and has had a lot of tolerance from the supporters. But changing him out wouldn't work in my opinion as someone else comes through the revolving door with the same constraints.
If whoever we replaced him with is going to have to work to that same wage structure and budget, then there's really no point ever getting rid of him, because it won't ever get better.
In fact, what will happen is we'll bob along - like a larger version of Wigan - for a few years, clinging on and then get relegated, because, whoever the manager is, we are going to have to start to buy players from a level better than those we have at the moment, and pretty quickly, too.
But we may have better organisation , style of play and quality of football - I'd take malky mackay or glenn hoddle over lambert and his dreadful style of play.
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My match ratings.
Guzan - 6. Points deducted for not having the guts to walk off in disgust.-sorry should have been better for both goals.
Lowton, Herd & Clark- 2. (For putting their shorts on the right way round) too generous, Lambert did it for them
Baker - 1. A lamp-post wearing football boots. Never a footballer in a million years.a lamp post has better positional sense
Delph - 4. Brainless booking yet again. Thinks he's hard, you're kidding no-one son.back too his previous seasons form
Tonev - 2. The rest were playing football, what were you doing?running and shooting wide and giving the ball away
Westwood - 3. Invisible, points awarded for last season's goal here.
Weimman - 3. Motormouth, full of running but so's a steeplechaser, as threatening as a water pistol.could not trap a bag of cement, cant pass the ball 5 yards
Kozak - 5. Scored, didn't hide, meh.beginning to like this fella at least he is trying
Albrighton -6. A reasonable display standing out as better than it was because it was surrounded by pap.
I despair. The Villa could make a grown man weep these days. Happy Christmas.
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uld have made given the spending limitations.
I don't think he's doing a very good job and has had a lot of tolerance from the supporters. But changing him out wouldn't work in my opinion as someone else comes through the revolving door with the same constraints.
If whoever we replaced him with is going to have to work to that same wage structure and budget, then there's really no point ever getting rid of him, because it won't ever get better.
In fact, what will happen is we'll bob along - like a larger version of Wigan - for a few years, clinging on and then get relegated, because, whoever the manager is, we are going to have to start to buy players from a level better than those we have at the moment, and pretty quickly, too.
But we may have better organisation , style of play and quality of football - I'd take malky mackay or glenn hoddle over lambert and his dreadful style of play.
Behave yourself, as bad as it is, mentioning those two as potential Villa managers? Please.
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Stoke were no better than us & we might just get through the season. A couple of wins & everything looks brighter again but in truth that's not good enough for Aston Villa. How the fuck did Lerner allow us to get into the position where we have a squad full championship quality players.
Danger is that, the end of season form looks about as good as it gets & the risk is Lerner / Lambert thinks we can repeat last seasons run in & fails to invest in quality. Benteke & Gabby got us to safety & there's no way we can count on a repeat.
The last few seasons are slowly killing my love for this once proud club.
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Reaction to a Tonev shot:
(http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/213892-1/Baby-fireworks-reaction.gif)
Ha!
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I don't get why when it's mentioned that this is worse than McBallbag, people then say 'but Lambert's not happy with playing this way, he was'. What? That makes it any better? That he can see we're shit but can't change it? If anything it makes him worse. Really baffles me, I don't give a flying fuck if Lambert's shaking his head.
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I don't get why when it's mentioned that this is worse than McBallbag, people then say 'but Lambert's not happy with playing this way, he was'. What? That makes it any better? That he can see we're shit but can't change it? If anything it makes him worse. Really baffles me, I don't give a flying fuck if Lambert's shaking his head.
It's about hope. It has been much better under Lambert, and he at least wants it to get better than it is now. McLeish was fine with the level we were playing. If you don't see that difference then you don't see that difference, but you don't appear to 'give a flying fuck' about that.
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Reaction to a Tonev shot:
(http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/213892-1/Baby-fireworks-reaction.gif)
On a lighter note, I'm on a iphone currently, what's the easiest way for me to get this gif so I can message it? Love that gif.
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This is the question do we stop with the shit we have now, because no one could do anything better, maybe a manager coming in and trying to make us play football, or if the players we have are not capable playing a style we can go with, but this is just not working, the style now is no style as someone said earlier we look like a team that turns up like I use to on a Sunday morning and just wing it.
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I don't get why when it's mentioned that this is worse than McBallbag, people then say 'but Lambert's not happy with playing this way, he was'. What? That makes it any better? That he can see we're shit but can't change it? If anything it makes him worse. Really baffles me, I don't give a flying fuck if Lambert's shaking his head.
It's about hope. It has been much better under Lambert, and he at least wants it to get better than it is now. McLeish was fine with the level we were playing. If you don't see that difference then you don't see that difference, but you don't appear to 'give a flying fuck' about that.
I really don't see the difference personally when the football on the pitch is just as bad. 'Flying duck' comment was bit strong as I'm narked. But what does it matter what is going on in either managers head, when the performances we see are so poor? Do people think McBallbag would not want to improve? Or any manager not getting results? Of course he would, he was on the best wage he will ever get!
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But this is the thing I do not understand 2 players of class, 60k a week, 6 players of crap 20k a week same outgoing, problem is with the Villa at the moment is we lack leadership on the field, leadership from the Manager and no leadership from the top echelons, in other words we are going nowhere but into a downward spiral very very quickly, pay for monkeys and you get monkeys.
The trouble with wages for footballers is that they're outside the realms of common sense so footballers judge their own salary by reference to other footballers.
During MONs reign it got to the stage where very average squad players were getting £40k a week and that's how it became unsustainable. So the club had to reset the base level and you can't do that while you still have very high earners on the payroll. Like it or not, with the likes of Given, Ireland, NZogbia, etc still in the squad (I know two of those are on loan but we'll still be paying a big chunk of their wages) we won't be able to bring decent players in on a sensible salary.
Once we've cleared the decks of the bomb squad I think you'll see a different transfer strategy. The current strategy isn't sustainable long term.
I heard today that Crouch is on £60k a week. When the bomb squad has gone our highest earner will be Benteke on £40k. Even Lerner must realise that we shouldn't be paying our highest earner 2/3rds of Stoke's highest earner in the long term.
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If Lambert sees the problem then he has a chance of getting us back to playing as we have done under him (which people have completely forgotten). McLeish was never going to improve because he didn't think he had to. Clearer?
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The quality of our football is just so poor - i really can't see things improving against palace or swansea- we are so dreadful at home and pulis will make it very difficult for us - I even fear barry bannan will take us apart and that's very disconcerting .
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Gonna switch off from villa until the next game and didn't really follow this one
But we just absolutely must get vlaar fit again or get a right footed centre back in January, or both. I just don't think the club can bear another struggle like last year again. I don't think the fans would stay with them again. We've had enough of it year after year.
But those wanting randy to go - be careful what you wish for. If he wants even half of his investment back we'll be another Leeds United .
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Reaction to a Tonev shot:
(http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/213892-1/Baby-fireworks-reaction.gif)
On a lighter note, I'm on a iphone currently, what's the easiest way for me to get this gif so I can message it? Love that gif.
http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/213892-1/Baby-fireworks-reaction.gif
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Reaction to a Tonev shot:
(http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/213892-1/Baby-fireworks-reaction.gif)
On a lighter note, I'm on a iphone currently, what's the easiest way for me to get this gif so I can message it? Love that gif.
http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/213892-1/Baby-fireworks-reaction.gif
Cheers Leeg
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If Lambert sees the problem then he has a chance of getting us back to playing as we have done under him (which people have completely forgotten). McLeish was never going to improve because he didn't think he had to. Clearer?
I like your thinking, but you make it sound like we've been playing well recently under Lambert and this is a blip he'll turn around. The truth is we haven't played well for a good while, we've scraped a few results together, got our heads above water and have expected to kick on. Constantly comparing Lambert to McLeish is also wearing thin, as I said earlier if improving on McLeish is the benchmark then we may as well pack up and go home. I don't know what the answer is and I'd be very disappointed if Lambert was sacked because it means yet more turmoil.
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If Lambert sees the problem then he has a chance of getting us back to playing as we have done under him (which people have completely forgotten). McLeish was never going to improve because he didn't think he had to. Clearer?
I like your thinking, but you make it sound like we've been playing well recently under Lambert and this is a blip he'll turn around. The truth is we haven't played well for a good while, we've scraped a few results together, got our heads above water and have expected to kick on. Constantly comparing Lambert to McLeish is also wearing thin, as I said earlier if improving on McLeish is the benchmark then we may as well pack up and go home. I don't know what the answer is and I'd be very disappointed if Lambert was sacked because it means yet more turmoil.
I agree, it's worse than a blip, it's a chronic loss of form from no-one more than him, and he needs to pick it up. But he is open to new ideas and new ways of doing things, and has hit a standard in the past that was no accident and which owed a lot to him. He can turn it around, I think - it's just about whether or not he does.
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Allardyce.
Sack Lambert for the shit football and bad results, and replace him with a manager playing even shitter football and currently getting even shitter results.
That'll work.
Even shitter football? Not that I think we should even jokingly whisper his name in connection with the VIlla but BFS's West Ham certainly didn't play shitter football last month when we met. Only one team parked the bus against a team without a striker. Fuck, it was embarrassing.
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If Lambert sees the problem then he has a chance of getting us back to playing as we have done under him (which people have completely forgotten). McLeish was never going to improve because he didn't think he had to. Clearer?
Not really, because that would suggest that he hasn't had the chance to change how we play considering he knows it's crap, obviously he knows we're crap. It's been pretty clear how poor we have been playing and there has been zero sign of that changing, in fact it's getting worse. You could say he has not had enough time, which may be fair enough, but we aren't even getting the basics right. Don't get me wrong I've not forgotten how shit we were under McBallbag. But passing a ball, really?
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Well that was dire.
Like a full starting XI of Bruce Dyers.
I'm not convinced by PL, it's hard to gloss over some of the woeful results and performances since he took over in 2012. It's fair to say there has probably been more bad than good so far. But there has been good-most notably the last four months of the campaign where we got some impressive results in a highly pressurised situation.
This season, we generally have a bit more resolve about us too. I'm sure that's been worked on. Pre Vlaar injury, we were looking more secure at the back, and the absolute dread we felt whenever we had to defend set pieces has subsided somewhat.
Let him have this window (and hopefully the next) to address the fairly obvious failing we have in the centre of the park. That needs to be the next step. More experienced central defensive cover wouldn't go amiss either.
Lambert hasn't done anywhere enough as a manger to be compared to David Moyes, but I do think back to some of the poor starts his Everton side had to the season. Even after finishing 4th and a few top 6 finishes, there were calls to ditch Moyes when Everton were near the bottom at Christmas. At least on three separate occasions that I can recall. With only one or two home wins on the board and similar criticism over the style of football.
But Everton -who to my mind were about as entertaining as watching paint dry up until about 2006- did evolve. From about 2009 onwards, I actually felt they were quite an attractive side to watch.
Again, I'm not suggesting that sticking with PL will automatically bring about a similar upturn in fortunes. And he won't get seven years to make us halfway watchable, I think that's a given. But in the time he has been with us there has been measurable progress. He does seem to learn and -I would hope- if we can see our failings, he will too.
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For all we are disagreeing Montbert, I like you're positivity. It would be pretty depressing otherwise. I'm definitely Ying.
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Painful. Again
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If Lambert sees the problem then he has a chance of getting us back to playing as we have done under him (which people have completely forgotten). McLeish was never going to improve because he didn't think he had to. Clearer?
Not really, because that would suggest that he hasn't had the chance to change how we play considering he knows it's crap, obviously he knows we're crap. It's been pretty clear how poor we have been playing and there has been zero sign of that changing, in fact it's getting worse. You could say he has not had enough time, which may be fair enough, but we aren't even getting the basics right. Don't get me wrong I've not forgotten how shit we were under McBallbag. But passing a ball, really?
Believe me I'm dissatisfied with the style, and some might even remember that I was in a minority of about three who didn't want him when he was appointed. However, there is a level he has got us to with remarkably small resources, and deserves more than half a season to do so again.
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If Lambert sees the problem then he has a chance of getting us back to playing as we have done under him (which people have completely forgotten). McLeish was never going to improve because he didn't think he had to. Clearer?
I think the difference is:
McLeish -> did with us what he does as a manager, no pretence to playing better football, it was always going to be like that.
Lambert -> wants us to play better football, currently failing dismally.
That is not making an excuse for Lambert, there aren't any at the moment, this is his squad and he has to get results out of them. It's no good people saying "but some of these players have had a chronic lack of form", either, because that's his job - getting them *in* form.
So, i have zero illusions about Lambert at the moment, it's rubbish, unacceptable rubbish (which i noticed today seems to have also become petulant rubbish).
The core difference between him and McLeish is crucial, though.
Much rather someone who tries but fails than someone who just surrenders from the outset and hopes he can get away with it.
Neither of them are brilliant, but one is much more acceptable or understandable than the other.
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Not that he's any great loss but ashley Westwood is suspended for the palace game .
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At least we've finally managed to shake off the "rubbish at home, quite good away" tag.
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Started reading this thread just now as the anger from the game had started to subside. It's coming back. Fucking awful.
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I missed it today, Xmas shopping instead.
I'm a bit scared to read this thread. From the little I heard while at McDonalds it sounded terrible and nasty.
I'm in a pretty good mood now and the kids are still up so ill save this til later.....I'm really looking forward to it too :/
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I'm not voting for Abbey Clancy tonight
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wouldn`t be surprised if we now start winning at home and losing away.Just hope so cos my half season ticket kicks in Boxing Day.
Didn`t matches used to be 1 o`clock Boxing Day or 11 ?
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Mazrim defined it on another thread and I very much agree with him. Something has happened at Villa Park that we do not know about. I really do have the feeling that the club has lost its heart. As I have said recently even in the darkest times we always believed totally that we would rise again. The last four seasons have got me feeling that IF we do rise again it will only be to the top half of the premiership. That is an absolutely monumental act of defeatism.
So how did the club lose its heart? I believe it is the consequence of losing an owner for all his faults and they were many and well known, who loved the club and loved the game. In Steve Stride we had an executive who also loved the game. They have been replaced by Randy Lerner and Paul Faulkner for whom Aston Villa Football Club are no more than a business investment. I am sure Randy likes "soccer" and takes an interest in our games, albeit from a distance but Faulkner will never be a football man while he has a hole in his arse.
I am very disappointed with Lambert, very disappointed indeed but until the very top level of the club matches the Villa fans' love of the club and the love of the game of football no amount of managerial musical chairs is going to make the slightest difference.
It is not the low wages and the bargain basement buys which are eroding the Villa, it is the fact that they are seen as an end in themselves. Aston Villa's holy grail is not to hold aloft the European Cup once more but to have a nice tidy set of accounts lodged at the bank all in the black and all blessed by the approving nods of accountants and bankers.
When we, the fans, raised the hundred grand for Tommy Docherty to buy Brucie, he bought Brucie and it made one heck of a difference (actually they threw in that wonderful club servant his brother Neil) but what he did not do was buy ten ten grand squad players.
If Lambert gets money in the January window he is a leopard who will not change his spots, he will buy cheap again but it is all hypothetical because he will not get any money and he will not sign anybody.
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Not that he's any great loss but ashley Westwood is suspended for the palace game .
Good. It will force Lambert to give somebody else a chance to play the deep defensive role. It's Sylla's natural position, Herd could play there, both will give the defence some protection. Sometimes Villa managers make great discoveries when forced to make changes. Here's hoping, Paul.
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I could cry at that.
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I am going to the next two games mind, hopefully Montbert, Santa can get us something. Otherwise I'll have nothing but the usual lynx deodorant.
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At least we've finally managed to shake off the "rubbish at home, quite good away" tag.
Ha ha ha, excellent, that's made me laugh and cheered me up, thanks.
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The transfer window opens in less than 2 weeks. Time for Lerner abandon the ridiculous "young and hungry" nonsense and sign some real Premier League players starting with a top class midfielder. Anymore lower league crap and we may as well pack up.
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Mazrim defined it on another thread and I very much agree with him. Something has happened at Villa Park that we do not know about. I really do have the feeling that the club has lost its heart. As I have said recently even in the darkest times we always believed totally that we would rise again. The last four seasons have got me feeling that IF we do rise again it will only be to the top half of the premiership. That is an absolutely monumental act of defeatism.
So how did the club lose its heart? I believe it is the consequence of losing an owner for all his faults and they were many and well known, who loved the club and loved the game. In Steve Stride we had an executive who also loved the game. They have been replaced by Randy Lerner and Paul Faulkner for whom Aston Villa Football Club are no more than a business investment. I am sure Randy likes "soccer" and takes an interest in our games, albeit from a distance but Faulkner will never be a football man while he has a hole in his arse.
I am very disappointed with Lambert, very disappointed indeed but until the very top level of the club matches the Villa fans' love of the club and the love of the game of football no amount of managerial musical chairs is going to make the slightest difference.
It is not the low wages and the bargain basement buys which are eroding the Villa, it is the fact that they are seen as an end in themselves. Aston Villa's holy grail is not to hold aloft the European Cup once more but to have a nice tidy set of accounts lodged at the bank all in the black and all blessed by the approving nods of accountants and bankers.
When we, the fans, raised the hundred grand for Tommy Docherty to buy Brucie, he bought Brucie and it made one heck of a difference (actually they threw in that wonderful club servant his brother Neil) but what he did not do was buy ten ten grand squad players.
If Lambert gets money in the January window he is a leopard who will not change his spots, he will buy cheap again but it is all hypothetical because he will not get any money and he will not sign anybody.
I feel your passion Brian , very good post .
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Unless Vlaar gets back quickly and stays fit, we are going to be in trouble. Plenty of effort and spirit, but no composure or leadership. 5 players booked is a damning statistic.
Looking through this thread - this is about the only comment I can really agree with. Without Vlaar and Gabby there is no experience. First half we were comfortable because Stoke were even more shite than we were. The ref had no bollocks, their left back was kicking lumps out of Albrighton, Shawcross was all over Kozak, their keeper didn't have the ball when Weimann was taken out, we just didn't have the ability to to take advantage.
Stoke put Adam on 2nd half - he's not much good but changed the game - simply because he knew how to encourage his team mates to wind up our young inexperienced players.
A lot of our players are struggling but they are not totally incompetent - we need a couple of old heads in there to steady the ship. To tell the young ones the best way to beat a "clogging team" like Stoke is to keep playing football, when you get fouled get up and wait for them to foul you again, even an inept ref will eventually get the message. Don't get up and get booked in the next challenge.
Inept ref - how can any ref let Stoke get away with tactics where Weimann is held back every time he tries to break away? He might not have the ball - but it was obviously part of Stoke's plan.
I will probably be in a small minority - but sacking Lambert is not the answer to our problems. We are not small time like the Tescos Baggies.
One bright spot - "The Library is ours" song - pity those off the field showed more class than those on the field.
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We rarely ever look like winning games these days. Today was no different. Even some of the games we won, we didn't even look like winning, but somehow pulled off the result be it one moment where the ball falls kindly or a well timed and well executed Bacuna FK. The trouble is you cannot go through a season playing badly and expect to win more than you lose. Playing so shit has caught up with us in the last three games and we're now getting the results we deserved during that 5 match unbeaten run.
In the last 8 games I couldn't honestly say we deserved to win any of the matches. We were poor against Cardiff. We were poor against Southampton. The Southampton game in particular was incredibly fortuitous. under 30% possession and 3 shots on target and we won 3-2, whilst they pulled our defense all over the place at times. Poor finishing on their part cost them what really should have been a win.
The next two games will tell us if we're still dogfighting, or if we're comfortable. On current form I can't see us convincingly beating anyone in this division.
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I'm not voting for Abbey Clancy tonight
I hope Alijas takes her up the .............
The judges are giving the scouse slut lots of marks - lets hope the phones in Grimsby keep working.
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Unless Vlaar gets back quickly and stays fit, we are going to be in trouble. Plenty of effort and spirit, but no composure or leadership. 5 players booked is a damning statistic.
Looking through this thread - this is about the only comment I can really agree with. Without Vlaar and Gabby there is no experience. First half we were comfortable because Stoke were even more shite than we were. The ref had no bollocks, their left back was kicking lumps out of Albrighton, Shawcross was all over Kozak, their keeper didn't have the ball when Weimann was taken out, we just didn't have the ability to to take advantage.
Stoke put Adam on 2nd half - he's not much good but changed the game - simply because he knew how to encourage his team mates to wind up our young inexperienced players.
A lot of our players are struggling but they are not totally incompetent - we need a couple of old heads in there to steady the ship. To tell the young ones the best way to beat a "clogging team" like Stoke is to keep playing football, when you get fouled get up and wait for them to foul you again, even an inept ref will eventually get the message. Don't get up and get booked in the next challenge.
Inept ref - how can any ref let Stoke get away with tactics where Weimann is held back every time he tries to break away? He might not have the ball - but it was obviously part of Stoke's plan.
I will probably be in a small minority - but sacking Lambert is not the answer to our problems. We are not small time like the Tescos Baggies.
One bright spot - "The Library is ours" song - pity those off the field showed more class than those on the field.
I don't see how that is the only thing you can agree with when you then go on to make a load of points which lots of other people have also made. It's not as if you're swimming against the tide with any of that. Not even the bit about sacking Lambert.
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Only 4 out of 10 outfield players today were bought by Lambert. BUT the entire bench consisted of players bought by Lambert, basically meaning that they are not better than what we had. And, honestly, during the game, none of us probably thought that Luna/Sylla/Bacuna/KEA/Helenius/Bowery would come on and change the game. When you buy cheap, this is what you get. Lambert says he wants to play football the right way, then why does he not buy people who are good footballers ?
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Only 4 out of 10 outfield players today were bought by Lambert. BUT the entire bench consisted of players bought by Lambert, basically meaning that they are not better than what we had. And, honestly, during the game, none of us probably thought that Luna/Sylla/Bacuna/KEA/Helenius/Bowery would come on and change the game. When you buy cheap, this is what you get. Lambert says he wants to play football the right way, then why does he not buy people who are good footballers ?
That Bowery coming on was supposed to be Lamberts masterstroke tells you everything you need to know about him as a manager, and us as a club at the moment.
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Unless Vlaar gets back quickly and stays fit, we are going to be in trouble. Plenty of effort and spirit, but no composure or leadership. 5 players booked is a damning statistic.
Looking through this thread - this is about the only comment I can really agree with. Without Vlaar and Gabby there is no experience. First half we were comfortable because Stoke were even more shite than we were. The ref had no bollocks, their left back was kicking lumps out of Albrighton, Shawcross was all over Kozak, their keeper didn't have the ball when Weimann was taken out, we just didn't have the ability to to take advantage.
Stoke put Adam on 2nd half - he's not much good but changed the game - simply because he knew how to encourage his team mates to wind up our young inexperienced players.
A lot of our players are struggling but they are not totally incompetent - we need a couple of old heads in there to steady the ship. To tell the young ones the best way to beat a "clogging team" like Stoke is to keep playing football, when you get fouled get up and wait for them to foul you again, even an inept ref will eventually get the message. Don't get up and get booked in the next challenge.
Inept ref - how can any ref let Stoke get away with tactics where Weimann is held back every time he tries to break away? He might not have the ball - but it was obviously part of Stoke's plan.
I will probably be in a small minority - but sacking Lambert is not the answer to our problems. We are not small time like the Tescos Baggies.
One bright spot - "The Library is ours" song - pity those off the field showed more class than those on the field.
I don't see how that is the only thing you can agree with when you then go on to make a load of points which lots of other people have also made. It's not as if you're swimming against the tide with any of that. Not even the bit about sacking Lambert.
I'm just pissed off like everybody else and talking utter bollocks like everybody else!
Lambert needs to find somebody like him in his playing days - to sit in midfield and steady the ship.
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Bowery really is useless. I'd much rather have seen Jack Grealish come on.
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Not that he's any great loss but ashley Westwood is suspended for the palace game .
Phew, one crumb of comfort...one game without drilled corners beyond the back stick that never, ever threaten a goal. A walking, talking dictionary definition of anonymity.
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Bowery really is useless. I'd much rather have seen Jack Grealish come on.
I really cannot understand why Lambert plays him out of all his purchases. I'd have rather seen Helenius given a chance.
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Only 4 out of 10 outfield players today were bought by Lambert. BUT the entire bench consisted of players bought by Lambert, basically meaning that they are not better than what we had. And, honestly, during the game, none of us probably thought that Luna/Sylla/Bacuna/KEA/Helenius/Bowery would come on and change the game. When you buy cheap, this is what you get. Lambert says he wants to play football the right way, then why does he not buy people who are good footballers ?
That Bowery coming on was supposed to be Lamberts masterstroke tells you everything you need to know about him as a manager, and us as a club at the moment.
I agree that when we needed someone "game changing" and then put Bowery on, it just seemed so obvious how poor our squad really is. PL really has to pull out some quality next month. Thought the defence first half was very good. We just do not have any players (other than Albrighton today) who can create anything .......
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Bowery really is useless. I'd much rather have seen Jack Grealish come on.
Add Robinson, Carruthers, Johnson for Tonev, KEA.
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Looking at the table and the way other teams are performing I do not think we need 40 points to survive, actually I am not too concerned about relegation. But like others I am depressed that we seem to settle for that, I have heard nothing from Lerner/Faulkner/Lambert suggesting we are more ambitious than that. I have no hopes for spectacular signings in January. I had that last January when we were in a worse position and we ended up with Sylla and Dawkins on loan...
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Mazrim defined it on another thread and I very much agree with him. Something has happened at Villa Park that we do not know about. I really do have the feeling that the club has lost its heart. As I have said recently even in the darkest times we always believed totally that we would rise again. The last four seasons have got me feeling that IF we do rise again it will only be to the top half of the premiership. That is an absolutely monumental act of defeatism.
So how did the club lose its heart? I believe it is the consequence of losing an owner for all his faults and they were many and well known, who loved the club and loved the game. In Steve Stride we had an executive who also loved the game. They have been replaced by Randy Lerner and Paul Faulkner for whom Aston Villa Football Club are no more than a business investment. I am sure Randy likes "soccer" and takes an interest in our games, albeit from a distance but Faulkner will never be a football man while he has a hole in his arse.
I am very disappointed with Lambert, very disappointed indeed but until the very top level of the club matches the Villa fans' love of the club and the love of the game of football no amount of managerial musical chairs is going to make the slightest difference.
It is not the low wages and the bargain basement buys which are eroding the Villa, it is the fact that they are seen as an end in themselves. Aston Villa's holy grail is not to hold aloft the European Cup once more but to have a nice tidy set of accounts lodged at the bank all in the black and all blessed by the approving nods of accountants and bankers.
When we, the fans, raised the hundred grand for Tommy Docherty to buy Brucie, he bought Brucie and it made one heck of a difference (actually they threw in that wonderful club servant his brother Neil) but what he did not do was buy ten ten grand squad players.
If Lambert gets money in the January window he is a leopard who will not change his spots, he will buy cheap again but it is all hypothetical because he will not get any money and he will not sign anybody.
I feel your passion Brian , very good post .
When did I give you permission to be me Brian?! Yes, an excellent post, exactly what it's all about for me not whether Lambert is better than TSM or whether Helenius should come on instead of Bowery etc etc etc etc. We've lost our soul and Aston Villa is nothing like the club I remember wanting to be associated with when I 'signed up' in the early 70s. We've become also rans, boring and irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things. Lerner has presided over much of this and I shudder to think of the euphoria I felt when I sold my shares to him. The framed certificate on my landing wall is a cruel and mocking reminder. We are a million miles from the Aston Villa I used to know and love
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I too struggle to see how Grealish is likely to be any less effective than Tonev.
Grealish might not be ready for the PL yet, but Tonev quite clearly isn't.
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Looking at the table and the way other teams are performing I do not think we need 40 points to survive, actually I am not too concerned about relegation. But like others I am depressed that we seem to settle for that, I have heard nothing from Lerner/Faulkner/Lambert suggesting we are more ambitious than that. I have no hopes for spectacular signings in January. I had that last January when we were in a worse position and we ended up with Sylla and Dawkins on loan...
I just think, at the very base level, it'd be nice to see us play well once in a while. A shorter while.
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The frustration is that we can, and did at the back end of the season. I think the complacency from that has made Lambert almost think it will click again at some point. It isn't happening though.
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The frustration is that we can, and did at the back end of the season. I think the complacency from that has made Lambert almost think it will click again at some point. It isn't happening though.
Bentekes form hasn't helped, and I think Westwood and Lowton have hit the wall. It's partly form certainly, but for those two I think it's also a case of not being good enough at this level to be honest. They've been quite easily worked out. Westwood has been horrific this season.
But we were incredibly reliant on Benteke last season. Even games we weren't brilliant he could win by himself at times. Again, his form and fitness haven't helped, and likewise we've been worked out and have no answer.
The trouble is our good form last season wasn't down to any great subtlety. It was a lot of energy, a lot of pace, some momentum and players in form. At some point at this level you need a bit more subtlety and a bit more nous to succeed.
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I think the way we finished last season there was some optimism for the current season.
The football has by and large been dire this season. Yes, we have tightened up when Vlaar is in the side, but we seem to have gone backwards and are fortunate in that there is a lot of mediocre teams in the premiership. I didnt expect anything special, but did expect decent entertaining football. Like others have mentioned, I wonder how shite Helenius must be if Bowery is getting in the team ahead of him. Boxing day is a massive game now, I think we will be ok from relegation, but that is nothing to be proud of and things need to improve
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I too struggle to see how Grealish is likely to be any less effective than Tonev.
Grealish might not be ready for the PL yet, but Tonev quite clearly isn't.
Tonev could do with a spell on loan - it has worked up to a point with Albrighton.
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I too struggle to see how Grealish is likely to be any less effective than Tonev.
Grealish might not be ready for the PL yet, but Tonev quite clearly isn't.
Tonev could do with a spell on loan - it has worked up to a point with Albrighton.
i don't want to destroy the bloke, it takes time to settle, and I don't want to write him off. I also think his tendency to shoot from 300 yards is about him trying desperately to make it work.
But a one eyed man on a galloping horse could see that it's really not working for him at the moment. We see him week in, week out, though, and it isn't showing any signs of getting better.
The problem then is that, you look at the bench, and what other options do we have? Next to nothing. There's no experience there.
People say "yeah, we tried experience before and we ended up with Hutton" or whichever failure, but that's totally missing the point. Sometimes, you need a wiser, older head out there, and it is noticeable that losing Vlaar to injury has cost us defensive tightness, but he's also the closest thing we have to an experienced head (what is he, about 25?).
With him gone, we suffer on two fronts.
They just looked like a bunch of frustrated kids today, getting annoyed when things weren't coming off for them. That's been our problem for weeks now.
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Tonev is utterly useless. I'm sorry but he's nowhere near good enough. And Weimann needs to put a shift in sooner rather than later as well. Too many players are way off the required levels of application and ability, and Lambert needs to address this ASAP.
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Just to make us even happier. There's a pattern of late emerging. Sidwell strung us up in the Fulham match. Crouch did today. In our next game we face Barry Bannan, and then we face Routledge next. The just to rub salt in even further, we face Bardsley and Gardner in the next game after that.
Marvelous.
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Tonev is utterly useless. I'm sorry but he's nowhere near good enough. And Weimann needs to put a shift in sooner rather than later as well. Too many players are way off the required levels of application and ability, and Lambert needs to address this ASAP.
Tonev can't control the ball or run with the ball. If he knocks it and runs hes okay, but then he has no composure and never gets his head up so his final delivery is often woeful. He just never seems in control of the football.
You can get an idea about a player. You know sometimes if there's something there to suggest they'll come good. In Tonevs case he just looks massively out of his depth. He should be back in the Polish or Bulgarian leagues skinning sub standard defenders, where his poor touch isn't much of an issue.
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After reading the first couple of pages, I have to ask the question, are the posters being serious about sacking Paul Lambert?
I find that surprising myself. He appears to be a good young, up and coming manager who given time will turn this young bunch of players into a good out-fit. Whilst the football may not be brilliant, I still think you'll survive and it will be another good experience for the younger professionals within your squad.
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After reading the first couple of pages, I have to ask the question, are the posters being serious about sacking Paul Lambert?
I find that surprising myself. He appears to be a good young, up and coming manager who given time will turn this young bunch of players into a good out-fit. Whilst the football may not be brilliant, I still think you'll survive and it will be another good experience for the younger professionals within your squad.
They probably are serious but not credible. We have to perservere, we are better off position and points wise than last season. We need people who performed well in the 2nd half of last season to step up this season, Benteke, Weimann, Westwood, Lowton and Clark. They have all been below standard.
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You'd ruin a young kid like Grealish if you played him now.Tonev has good feet, quick, and is young.He has plenty of time, its not his fault he has had so much expectation heaped upon him.He plays like a rabbit caught in headlights tbh.
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After reading the first couple of pages, I have to ask the question, are the posters being serious about sacking Paul Lambert?
I find that surprising myself. He appears to be a good young, up and coming manager who given time will turn this young bunch of players into a good out-fit. Whilst the football may not be brilliant, I still think you'll survive and it will be another good experience for the younger professionals within your squad.
And therein lies the problem. The ones who are letting us down the most were supposed to have learned from the experience of last season.
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How many games this season can you honestly say "we played well today"? I reckon two - the first two games of the season. And we lost one of those.
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After reading the first couple of pages, I have to ask the question, are the posters being serious about sacking Paul Lambert?
I find that surprising myself. He appears to be a good young, up and coming manager who given time will turn this young bunch of players into a good out-fit. Whilst the football may not be brilliant, I still think you'll survive and it will be another good experience for the younger professionals within your squad.
No offence intended here Liam but we are Aston villa and surviving is not really good enough for a club like us - in your case survival is seen as success but for us we aspire to much more than just survival.
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How many games this season can you honestly say "we played well today"? I reckon two - the first two games of the season. And we lost one of those.
Over 90 minutes I suppose I'd agree - we have played well in patches in other games but not of a consistent level .
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After reading the first couple of pages, I have to ask the question, are the posters being serious about sacking Paul Lambert?
I find that surprising myself. He appears to be a good young, up and coming manager who given time will turn this young bunch of players into a good out-fit. Whilst the football may not be brilliant, I still think you'll survive and it will be another good experience for the younger professionals within your squad.
No offence intended here Liam but we are Aston villa and surviving is not really good enough for a club like us - in your case survival is seen as success but for us we aspire to much more than just survival.
(We being the fans, not the club itself seemingly).
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How many games this season can you honestly say "we played well today"? I reckon two - the first two games of the season. And we lost one of those.
That's true, sadly.
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After reading the first couple of pages, I have to ask the question, are the posters being serious about sacking Paul Lambert?
I find that surprising myself. He appears to be a good young, up and coming manager who given time will turn this young bunch of players into a good out-fit. Whilst the football may not be brilliant, I still think you'll survive and it will be another good experience for the younger professionals within your squad.
I don't want him to be sacked, but I do want him to get his act together - quickly - because we have been abysmal for a decent period of time now.
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We need to sack him and bring in a new man (no idea who) to flick the switch which will prevent injuries, turn our squad players into world beaters an instill confidence into the young players. Oh he has still got no money to spend and we have to start rebuilding the coaching staff and pay compensation to Mr Lambert too, so the playing squad will have to remain the same in the short term.
No. I will trust in Mr Lambert and listen to him defend his players week in week out, because he has to keep their confidence up.
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I must admit, it seems ages since we won, say, three matches in a row, but currently it just seems inconceivable.
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Disappointing as this all is we need to show patience and stick with PL.
We are a massive work in progress and under the constraints that the Club operates under it really will be a gradual process, although it feels glacial if progress at all.
I just think that with so many young players we are bound to have these times. Yes we need investment in January but we also have good players not performing due to injury and loss of form that will come again, Benteke, Wiemann.
We're all pissed off but we've also got to be realistic.
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No offence intended here Liam but we are Aston villa and surviving is not really good enough for a club like us - in your case survival is seen as success but for us we aspire to much more than just survival.
Really don't understand the pop at myself or my club when all I've asked is a straight forward question.
I thought Lambert was in the process of building a young, energetic side who played football with a high intensity and I thought he'd be given the patience by the Villa fans to do this. With a young side, relatively new at this level, there was always going to be peaks and troughs.
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It's tough to get the players you want for sensible money mid-season, and there are plenty of January flops, but this could all be turned around in the upcoming transfer window. I still think that we have the basis of a decent side. The trouble is, we're overloaded with players who are inconsistent and need a bit of established, experienced quality alongside them in order to be able to perform. They only look shite because they're all being made to play together, week in, week out. Take Tonev for example. He's just arrived in English football, he's struggling to adapt, and he needs to be used as a sub for a while in a side that's playing decent football under no pressure. Unfortunately, he doesn't have that luxury, because almost every other player in the squad is struggling just as much as him, so he plays in a crap team and consequently tries to do it all himself.
I genuinely believe all that's needed is two, perhaps three quality internationals, battle-hardened old-hands to steady the youngsters, dictate the style of play and get the rest of the team organised and properly positioned on the pitch. It would transform us, and it would be a sound investment as our younger players would start to realise their potential much more quickly. Without that added quality and experience, though....we're fucked.
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Disappointing as this all is we need to show patience and stick with PL.
We are a massive work in progress and under the constraints that the Club operates under it really will be a gradual process, although it feels glacial if progress at all.
I just think that with so many young players we are bound to have these times. Yes we need investment in January but we also have good players not performing due to injury and loss of form that will come again, Benteke, Wiemann.
We're all pissed off but we've also got to be realistic.
I agree 100% with this.
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How many of the players have improved this season? Vlaar most certainly, Delph has performed like the second half of last season, who else? Guzan has done ok as well, as he did last season. Lowton, Westwood, Weiman have been major disappointments for me, really thought they would continue to kick on. Benteke may have a new contract, but is not the same player and maybe injury is taking its toll as I dont go along with the cant be bothered comments as he knows he has to perform to get a world cup spot and also a lucturative move. I do not think Baker will ever be a premiership player, lots of heart but positioning is awful. Clark is a bit better IMHO. Gabby has done ok, nothing more and nothing less, you never know. Bennett, what is wrong with him? The signings in the summer, Kozak has done ok and more to come, Bacuna I would like to see in the middle, Luna is a liability in defence at the moment, Helenius who knows what has happened if Bowery gets on in front of him. A lot of average players. If we get rid of Lambert, who are we going to get in who is better with the same financial constraints? We are Aston Villa, but we have to accept that we are looking in the basement bargains and that is only going to get you so far in this day and age
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But why do we have to wait three, five or even ten years before the work-in-progress becomes the finished article? Why does it need to be painful to achieve nice attractive football with a young squad? Is there a rule we have to watch shite football and flirt with relegation as some kind of dues-paying exercise?
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Just to make us even happier. There's a pattern of late emerging. Sidwell strung us up in the Fulham match. Crouch did today. In our next game we face Barry Bannan, and then we face Routledge next. The just to rub salt in even further, we face Bardsley and Gardner in the next game after that.
Marvelous.
Yes they will all score and we will lose all those games.
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Looking at what we pay for players and what we pay them I think our position in the league flatters us.
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Looking at what we pay for players and what we pay them I think our position in the league flatters us.
Or, just possibly, does the manager credit?
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No offence intended here Liam but we are Aston villa and surviving is not really good enough for a club like us - in your case survival is seen as success but for us we aspire to much more than just survival.
Really don't understand the pop at myself or my club when all I've asked is a straight forward question.
I thought Lambert was in the process of building a young, energetic side who played football with a high intensity and I thought he'd be given the patience by the Villa fans to do this. With a young side, relatively new at this level, there was always going to be peaks and troughs.
As I said no offence intended , but your comment that you thought we'd survive still made me think maybe thats ok at the Albion but we are hoping for a bit more than that - sorry if it came across as being arrogant .
I noticed you didn't pop on here after our win at southampton a fortnight ago by the way .
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But why do we have to wait three, five or even ten years before the work-in-progress becomes the finished article? Why does it need to be painful to achieve nice attractive football with a young squad? Is there a rule we have to watch shite football and flirt with relegation as some kind of dues-paying exercise?
Why do people assume that building something with young players just means waiting long enough and they become top players. It doesn't work like that. Some will, some won't.
The problem is that for us to progress, a mentally large number of them would have to become top players, and that's not going to happen.
It's all well and good Lambert going on about how the prices people say he played are inflated and this player cost 1m, not 2m, or that one cost 900k, the problem is, far too often, they actually look like players who didn't cost very much.
There's pretty much no escaping the fact that if you fill a squad with underwhelming players, you end up with an underwhelming team.
How many of our starters today would Stoke have coveted, for example?
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So how did the club lose its heart? I believe it is the consequence of losing an owner for all his faults and they were many and well known, who loved the club and loved the game. In Steve Stride we had an executive who also loved the game. They have been replaced by Randy Lerner and Paul Faulkner for whom Aston Villa Football Club are no more than a business investment. I am sure Randy likes "soccer" and takes an interest in our games, albeit from a distance but Faulkner will never be a football man while he has a hole in his arse.
If Lambert gets money in the January window he is a leopard who will not change his spots, he will buy cheap again but it is all hypothetical because he will not get any money and he will not sign anybody.
We all know how wonderful Mr Ellis and Mr Stride were.
Not sure what you are trying to say here? Is is the board or is it the manager who will not sign what you would call "quality"? However it doesn't matter because you have gussed the outcome.
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Looking at what we pay for players and what we pay them I think our position in the league flatters us.
I think for a manager to find 2 or 3 diamonds from the lower leagues is borderline genius. We are expecting him to do this as well as gel them into a team which is generally made up from our academy which makes it near on impossible.
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Disappointing as this all is we need to show patience and stick with PL.
We are a massive work in progress and under the constraints that the Club operates under it really will be a gradual process, although it feels glacial if progress at all.
I just think that with so many young players we are bound to have these times. Yes we need investment in January but we also have good players not performing due to injury and loss of form that will come again, Benteke, Wiemann.
We're all pissed off but we've also got to be realistic.
I agree 100% with this.
Yes very sensible post. We need to get real.
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A woeful performance. Again. We look pretty damn useless at the moment. Things can change of course. Let's hope they do sooner rather than later.
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Looking at what we pay for players and what we pay them I think our position in the league flatters us.
100% correct and this is what worries me more than anything else......I was hoping for mid table mediocrity this season but it now looks like that has been replaced with at least a ten team relegation battle which will challenge our young and inexperienced squad equally if not more so than last season.
I hope and pray that we act wisely in January or we might live to regret it
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Looking at what we pay for players and what we pay them I think our position in the league flatters us.
I think for a manager to find 2 or 3 diamonds from the lower leagues is borderline genius. We are expecting him to do this as well as gel them into a team which is generally made up from our academy which makes it near on impossible.
And we're asking him to play more exciting football than we have done for a decade. And, for a few months either side of the season break, he actually succeeded. There are a lot of problems with us at the moment, but it's not been all bad.
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Disappointing as this all is we need to show patience and stick with PL.
We are a massive work in progress and under the constraints that the Club operates under it really will be a gradual process, although it feels glacial if progress at all.
I just think that with so many young players we are bound to have these times. Yes we need investment in January but we also have good players not performing due to injury and loss of form that will come again, Benteke, Wiemann.
We're all pissed off but we've also got to be realistic.
I agree 100% with this.
Yes very sensible post. We need to get real.
If relegation is part of being a work in progress I'd rather not get real, thanks.
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I continue to have faith in Lambert's "plan" even if it is a bit see through and threadbare at the moment.
He has put faith in the players who performed last season and amazingly almost none of them have done the business this time around:
Lowton was a reliable, ever-present; Westwood was the new Carrick/Scholes; Sylla's good run in the team coincided with the team's good run (keep him in!); Benteke was on fire; Weimann was a threat to every team he played against and a proud product of our Academy system. Even Bennett was spoken of as settling in and improving considerably towards the end of the season.
None of these players have performed to the levels they did last season in spite of that year of experience behind them, most with improved contracts for the very reason they had proved themselves and stepped up.
This season they simply haven't done what was expected.
Do we stick by them, knowing they CAN perform better but are just not doing it at the moment, or do we ditch them and start all over again?
I can't blame Lambert for sticking with many of the players he's brought in and have shown they have the potential to do well and kick on this year, but for whatever reason they all seem to have "burnt out" or be off form at the same time.
There's no easy answer, but being the kind of guy he is, in the situation he's in, I honestly think he can only stick with the squad he has and work on getting them back to some kind of the form that we saw from Feb last season.
The last 3 games have been painful, and I think we'll see more of it before, IF, it gets any better.
UTV
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Worst team in 20 years.
Not even close
Since 1993, really?
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All these injuries are showing his signings up for what they are. Crap players.
They key injuries have largely happened to his signings.
His other signings aren't taking up the flak either.
It's a terrible squad.
The bench today:
Steer
Bacuna
El Ahmadi
Helenius
Luna
Bowery
Sylla
All Lambert signings.
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As I said no offence intended , but your comment that you thought we'd survive still made me think maybe thats ok at the Albion but we are hoping for a bit more than that - sorry if it came across as being arrogant .
I noticed you didn't pop on here after our win at southampton a fortnight ago by the way .
I mentioned the surviving part because it's something I've seen from a number of Villa fans who think relegation is a concern when it isn't.
I was on here when you beat Southampton but I didn't feel the need to post - what that has to do with it I don't know.
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All these injuries are showing his signings up for what they are. Crap players.
They key injuries have largely happened to his signings.
His other signings aren't taking up the flak either.
It's a terrible squad.
The bench today:
Steer
Bacuna
El Ahmadi
Helenius
Luna
Bowery
Sylla
All Lambert signings.
Not easy to see where changes can be made to galvanise us against palace - we have problems as it is against sides who come to defend - not a game for the purists.
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A "work in progress" (the phrase that's trotted out by a number of people on here) suggests elements of planning towards an ultimate goal. Well I'm buggered if I can see a plan or a goal in what's happening here.
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While I wish al Aston Villa fans a Merry Merry Christmas, as you are not one of us Lambert I hope yours stinks
A dreadful comment. Paul Lambert deserves a very good Christmas just like the rest of us. It's only football FFS.
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As I said no offence intended , but your comment that you thought we'd survive still made me think maybe thats ok at the Albion but we are hoping for a bit more than that - sorry if it came across as being arrogant .
I noticed you didn't pop on here after our win at southampton a fortnight ago by the way .
I mentioned the surviving part because it's something I've seen from a number of Villa fans who think relegation is a concern when it isn't.
I was on here when you beat Southampton but I didn't feel the need to post - what that has to do with it I don't know.
And also he didn't pop on here after our defeats against Fulham and manu so eastie please let it go.
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As I said no offence intended , but your comment that you thought we'd survive still made me think maybe thats ok at the Albion but we are hoping for a bit more than that - sorry if it came across as being arrogant .
I noticed you didn't pop on here after our win at southampton a fortnight ago by the way .
I mentioned the surviving part because it's something I've seen from a number of Villa fans who think relegation is a concern when it isn't.
I was on here when you beat Southampton but I didn't feel the need to post - what that has to do with it I don't know.
I don't think this is the time, Liam, to be honest.
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While I wish al Aston Villa fans a Merry Merry Christmas, as you are not one of us Lambert I hope yours stinks
A dreadful comment. Paul Lambert deserves a very good Christmas just like the rest of us. It's only football FFS.
Yes , things are not good but that's over the top .
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As I said no offence intended , but your comment that you thought we'd survive still made me think maybe thats ok at the Albion but we are hoping for a bit more than that - sorry if it came across as being arrogant .
I noticed you didn't pop on here after our win at southampton a fortnight ago by the way .
I mentioned the surviving part because it's something I've seen from a number of Villa fans who think relegation is a concern when it isn't.
I was on here when you beat Southampton but I didn't feel the need to post - what that has to do with it I don't know.
We fluked the win at Southampton, think your comments were balanced and certainly not intended to offend anyone
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If relegation is part of being a work in progress I'd rather not get real, thanks.
OK what's your plan in that case?
We are 6 points above relegation zone even having lost 3 games on the trot so I again suggest get real.
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Let's not get carried away. It's not great but it could be much worse. If we turn the new year having not got at least 5 points from the 9 on offer then we have cause to be concerned. Until then, keep the faith.
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Crap result. No idea how we played as haven't seen or heard anything apart from the score.
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Guzan
Vlaar
Okore
Delph
Gabby
Benteke
Those for me are good enough to be in a Prem first 11 every week (some more so than others) in the Prem League. And currently we're missing 4 from injury, while only Guzan from that lot are currently in some sort of form. Even Delph has been well off the boil in recent weeks.
Clark, Albrighton, perhaps Lowton, Kozak and Weimann, good enough for a Prem bench/rotation role.
Everyone else I think are the worst selection we've had in my 23 years as a fan, by a long, long way. I don't really rate any of the others at this level. Not by a long shot. They're not ready now, and in some cases, I don't think they ever will be.
We need decent signings. We need to give some of the youth players like Johnson, Robinson, Grealish etc a go too.
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There's pretty much no escaping the fact that if you fill a squad with underwhelming players, you end up with an underwhelming team.
Why is it that so many lower league teams are able to freely pass the ball around, build and play as a team, defend as a unit, create goalscoring opportunities at will though they're filled with "underwelming players"?
I'll say it again, I don't think our problem is a squad filled with "underwelming players", there's plenty of talent there as we've seen from all of them at some stage. The problem is finding somebody that can develop that potential and get them playing together as a team.
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If relegation is part of being a work in progress I'd rather not get real, thanks.
OK what's your plan in that case?
We are 6 points above relegation zone even having lost 3 games on the trot so I again suggest get real.
I hope those words don't bite you on the bum in the next week or so aftab.
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Looking at what we pay for players and what we pay them I think our position in the league flatters us.
I think for a manager to find 2 or 3 diamonds from the lower leagues is borderline genius. We are expecting him to do this as well as gel them into a team which is generally made up from our academy which makes it near on impossible.
And we're asking him to play more exciting football than we have done for a decade. And, for a few months either side of the season break, he actually succeeded. There are a lot of problems with us at the moment, but it's not been all bad.
Not at all, but its on a lull now and I really hope it does not hit the heights of the lull last season. It's so frustrating because there is or was a good team being developed there at one point.
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Haven't read through the previous 18 pages yet so will add my comments without being influenced by other opinions:
I didn't actually think we were that bad today, we've certainly played worse up at Stoke in recent years and for a team obviously lacking in confidence in the final third and in defence it was a decent effort.
Just depressing that a) we've decided to go on a shite run again over xmas and b) as soon as we equalised Stoke stepped it up and scored what for them is a free flowing move. The top teams do that, not a bog standard mid table team.
What's the general view on the Wilson challenge? I was up the other end but he looked last man to me, that would've changed things.
Really we missed the core players today, maybe not Benteke as Kozak had his best game for us today and is coming on well but Gabby and Vlaar were huge misses. When we have a limited squad we can't really afford to have more than one key player missing at a time.
Highlight of my game was blowing my nose during the second half and a gust of wind took the handkerchief away from my hand. It eventually landed 2 feet from Lambert in the technical area.
Finally it's a waste of time us getting these shock results isn't it? Beat Arsenal first game, everyone gets excited and what happened....we lost the next three. We beat Man. City and didn't score for 4 games and an unexpected win at Southampton has again lead to 3 defeats.
We simply need to beat Palace otherwise Lambert will start to get a bit of stick I feel from the terraces. Certainly now we're losing away we need to pick up at home otherwise we'll be plummeting down the table.
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50 years ive been going to villa park i see one real problem the feckin owner tight fisted yankee twat came here with great intentions but words mean jack
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Crap result. No idea how we played as haven't seen or heard anything apart from the score.
A wise man indeed.
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If we sack Lambert, we bring in somebody who will change the squad, start again, etc.
We've got to stick with him, but please would someone tell him that 4-3-3 is bollocks.
Palace lost three nil today, they're playing us next, to quote David Coleman, 'what happened next?'. We're gonna fucking balls it up again. Zero points from three games is simply not good enough.
In Lerner terms, we're stuck with Lambert, so I just hope it works out...
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I hope those words don't bite you on the bum in the next week or so aftab.
I am closing my eyes and sticking plugs in my ears. Everything will be OK :'(
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I don't think this is the time, Liam, to be honest.
Why?
I'm actually defending Paul Lambert and your players here!
Is it the results or the lack of entertainment which is a problem for some of you? I know my mate feels there is very little entertainment value.
Having seen some of your games recently, I think you're crying out for an experienced player in the middle of the park. A person for those younger players in the side to turn too when the chips are down as well as being able to use the ball effectively - Sylla and Delph, from what I've seen are forever playing in first gear - there comes a time when a side needs a steady eddie and an old head.
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Would we even be having this discussion if the ref or Lino had been competent enough to give the handball?
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I don't think this is the time, Liam, to be honest.
Why?
I'm actually defending Paul Lambert and your players here!
Is it the results or the lack of entertainment which is a problem for some of you? I know my mate feels there is very little entertainment value.
Having seen some of your games recently, I think you're crying out for an experienced player in the middle of the park. A person for those younger players in the side to turn too when the chips are down as well as being able to use the ball effectively - Sylla and Delph, from what I've seen are forever playing in first gear - there comes a time when a side needs a steady eddie and an old head.
Your right , things could be worse - as our beloved neighbours are proving ;)
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If we sack Lambert, we bring in somebody who will change the squad, start again, etc.
We've got to stick with him, but please would someone tell him that 4-3-3 is bollocks.
Palace lost three nil today, they're playing us next, to quote David Coleman, 'what happened next?'. We're gonna fucking balls it up again. Zero points from three games is simply not good enough.
In Lerner terms, we're stuck with Lambert, so I just hope it works out...
He didn't play 4-3-3 today. He played 4-2-4. It was bollocks.
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50 years ive been going to villa park i see one real problem the feckin owner tight fisted yankee twat came here with great intentions but words mean jack
What does £300 million mean then?
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Any manager that witnesses a performance like that from his team is bound to be nervous. Especially since it was the second such effort in three weeks. Stoke were shocking too. There was only one moment of quality in the game that I remember, the cross for Stoke's winner.
The behaviour of a number of our players during the game was a disgrace. This is where Lambert really misses a couple of solid pros in the dressing room with him to sort some of this sh*te out. Clark continually getting booked for ridiculous lunging tackles, Herd, Lowton and Delph giving away multiple stupid freekicks. Weimann mouthing constantly at the ref. Once it starts in a team its infectious, far too many of our players were more interested in starting fights that passing the ball to a teammate.
I honestly think if Lambert was given money he still wouldnt address the crippling lack of leadership and experience in the squad. That for me is the worrying thing about keeping him on.
This concern me last week against Man. United when Baker tried to impress the crowd by trying to get himself sent off in the last 15 minutes. Irresponsible given we've lost Ron.
Plenty of poor challenges in the second half that on another day with another ref would've been a straight red for one of the players.
I don't think we're a dirty team but the players do seem to lose their heads, I couldn't see someone like Petrov accepting that if he was still playing and captain.
The current situation is frustrating but I think people are going OTT about relegation, we'll bob along in mid table all season, it will be one of those nothing seasons I'm afraid.
Will it get better than that soon? Well we simply need better quality of players in our first 11. Over to you Lerner, I genuinely think Lambert is doing the best he can apart from the quality of football he's got us playing.
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50 years ive been going to villa park i see one real problem the feckin owner tight fisted yankee twat came here with great intentions but words mean jack
I think he came here with the right intentions, but had his fingers badly burned and has gone into hibernation. I actually feel sorry for the manager, though have to say his tactics are somewhat strange at times.
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Would we even be having this discussion if the ref or Lino had been competent enough to give the handball?
Likewise we could say we probably wouldn't have scored if not handed an absolute gift by their fullback. We didn't look like scoring off our own back.
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Your right , things could be worse - as our beloved neighbours are proving ;)
We needn't talk about Blues in this thread mate :D
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If we sack Lambert, we bring in somebody who will change the squad, start again, etc.
We've got to stick with him, but please would someone tell him that 4-3-3 is bollocks.
Palace lost three nil today, they're playing us next, to quote David Coleman, 'what happened next?'. We're gonna fucking balls it up again. Zero points from three games is simply not good enough.
In Lerner terms, we're stuck with Lambert, so I just hope it works out...
He didn't play 4-3-3 today. He played 4-2-4. It was bollocks.
I imagine gabby will replace tonev and kea for the suspended Westwood on Boxing Day but I can't see who else is on the bench that will make any difference really .
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What we miss, what we absolutely miss, is a midfield. We do not have one. The one we have, to a man, is rubbish.
We're not quite in the shit yet; but if Palace get a win against us on Boxing Day, we are in the shit good and proper.
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Starting to hate Saturdays and taping MOTD then watching it 3 days later when I have simmered down..
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They had two tubby fullbacks, that pie fiend Adam and Walters, one of the most average players ever to appear in this league. I'm disappointed as a Villa fan we don't have the quality to put out to dominate a team like that. Not only that but they passed the ball better than us. Stoke...Stoke City...
:(
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What we miss, what we absolutely miss, is a midfield. We do not have one. The one we have, to a man, is rubbish.
We're not quite in the shit yet; but if Palace get a win against us on Boxing Day, we are in the shit good and proper.
We miss leadership too - someone who can organise and gee players up .
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Crap result. No idea how we played as haven't seen or heard anything apart from the score.
From my "seat":
I'd say we dominated the first half and should have gone in at least one up. The ref's decision re: Weimann was inexplicable. How many times do we see stonewall offences being "interpreted" by refs when no interpretation is necessary?. Stoke defender hauls down Villa attacker who is through on goal. Red card. But not this time!?
2nd half Stoke came out to have a go and we played wonderfully into their hands, following the script perfectly, Crouch heading down to a wa**er who scores pretty easily. They made a defensive error, Kozak nips in and scores. About 3 minutes later a cross from a totally unmarked player wide on the right leads to Guzan/Herd getting in each others' way, some apparent handball involved, and tall, lanky twat pops it into the unguarded net. Bollux!
We continue to hoof it long, getting absolutely nowhere and not attempting to play anything resembling football as we know it.
Bowery comes on to rescue us.
We all go home fu**in' depressed, wondering why, how, when?
The ref was weak.
Letting loadsa shit go, but booking players for picking their noses and flicking it at the stewards. Well, not nice that is it? Yellow card!
Hoist skinny little Villa winger into the crowd three times - fine. Man's game innit?
Pissed off.
Can you tell?
UTV
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We've still not scored in the first half this season have we?
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We've still not scored in the first half this season have we?
First game of the season.
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I didn't think it was a red card offence personally - if anything I felt the ref was lenient towards us - Weimann was not going to get the ball and a yellow was the right decision for me .
We could easily have gone down to 10 men at times with some of the tackles flying in .
I agree we have been robbed on occasions this season by refs but no complaints today from me.
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We've still not scored in the first half this season have we?
First game of the season.
Ah yes. Seems a long, long time ago that one.
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Haven't read all this thread, so apologies if it's already been mentioned. I normally manage to listen to about half of 6-0-6 every Saturday. Seldom hear calls from Villa fans but as previously stated only hear at best half of the programme. Tonight when Robbie Savage did his 6 callers, 6 seconds thing, the last one was Dennis, the Villa fan who was caller of the year last season, or something like that. Savage let him stay on air longer. It is either careful editing, or symptomatic of some kind of Brummie malaise, but it's rare that we bother calling up national radio phone ins IMO. BBC ones that is. Though to my eternal embarrassment, I was once live on 6-0-6 when David Mellor was the host, my stance being defending Stan Collymore.
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What we miss, what we absolutely miss, is a midfield. We do not have one. The one we have, to a man, is rubbish.
We're not quite in the shit yet; but if Palace get a win against us on Boxing Day, we are in the shit good and proper.
We definitely need to strengthen, but I think Delph doesn't deserve to put in the rubbish category .I would love to see Gardner given a run, but that's another young inexperienced player.
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Haven't read all this thread, so apologies if it's already been mentioned. I normally manage to listen to about half of 6-0-6 every Saturday. Seldom hear calls from Villa fans but as previously stated only hear at best half of the programme. Tonight when Robbie Savage did his 6 callers, 6 seconds thing, the last one was Dennis, the Villa fan who was caller of the year last season, or something like that. Savage let him stay on air longer. It is either careful editing, or symptomatic of some kind of Brummie malaise, but it's rare that we bother calling up national radio phone ins IMO. BBC ones that is. Though to my eternal embarrassment, I was once live on 6-0-6 when David Mellor was the host, my stance being defending Stan Collymore.
And what did Dennis say?
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They had two tubby fullbacks, that pie fiend Adam and Walters, one of the most average players ever to appear in this league. I'm disappointed as a Villa fan we don't have the quality to put out to dominate a team like that. Not only that but they passed the ball better than us. Stoke...Stoke City...
:(
The reality is we have now played Stoke 11 times since they were promoted and we've won...........2 of them. They are a proper bogey team for us, probably the equivilant of Leicester in the 90s. You can't blame Lambert for all of those results, indeed comfortably our best performance at the Britannia has come under his management.
We really needed Vlaar and Gabby available today. Those two in and we wouldn't have lost that game and probably would've won.
Stoke are nothing special and will finish mid table. Like us.
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Everything's shit basically. I think. Tend to switch off to a degree though when 'it was better in my day' callers have air time. And I'm speaking as a grumpy old woman.
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Any manager that witnesses a performance like that from his team is bound to be nervous. Especially since it was the second such effort in three weeks. Stoke were shocking too. There was only one moment of quality in the game that I remember, the cross for Stoke's winner.
The behaviour of a number of our players during the game was a disgrace. This is where Lambert really misses a couple of solid pros in the dressing room with him to sort some of this sh*te out. Clark continually getting booked for ridiculous lunging tackles, Herd, Lowton and Delph giving away multiple stupid freekicks. Weimann mouthing constantly at the ref. Once it starts in a team its infectious, far too many of our players were more interested in starting fights that passing the ball to a teammate.
I honestly think if Lambert was given money he still wouldnt address the crippling lack of leadership and experience in the squad. That for me is the worrying thing about keeping him on.
This concern me last week against Man. United when Baker tried to impress the crowd by trying to get himself sent off in the last 15 minutes. Irresponsible given we've lost Ron.
Plenty of poor challenges in the second half that on another day with another ref would've been a straight red for one of the players.
I don't think we're a dirty team but the players do seem to lose their heads, I couldn't see someone like Petrov accepting that if he was still playing and captain.
The current situation is frustrating but I think people are going OTT about relegation, we'll bob along in mid table all season, it will be one of those nothing seasons I'm afraid.
Will it get better than that soon? Well we simply need better quality of players in our first 11. Over to you Lerner, I genuinely think Lambert is doing the best he can apart from the quality of football he's got us playing.
The players certainly do lose their heads and as a result lose focus and shape. We have now surpassed Stoke as the 'dirtiest' team in the league. We had a bad record last season too.
The referee may have been lenient with Wilson, but we spent much of the time afterwards feeling hard done by, tackling rashly, giving away needless free kicks.
In all, a lack of discipline to add to a lack of quality and method.
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What does £300 million mean then?
A colossal, barely credible waste of money. I wonder if he regrets ever getting involved.
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Just had a lot on the Oatcake and most on there think Crouchy used his hand for the winner. I thought that at the time and I was near the corner flag by the tunnel!
On balance though, we could've had someone sent off in the second half. Who on earth was the ref today, can't say I recognised his name.
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@MatKendrick: Villa are one point & one place better off than at the same 17-game stage last season. 19 points instead of 18, 13th instead of 14th. #avfc
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I didn't think it was a red card offence personally - if anything I felt the ref was lenient towards us - Weimann was not going to get the ball and a yellow was the right decision for me .
We could easily have gone down to 10 men at times with some of the tackles flying in .
I agree we have been robbed on occasions this season by refs but no complaints today from me.
Wilson shoved Albrighton into the hoardings a couple of minutes earlier when the ball was already out of play, that was just as petuant and dangerous as the fouls/actions he booked Clark and Herd for. The ref decided tt wasn't even a talking to, which pissed Marc off enough that he went in very heavily on the next tackle and got booked (which was arguably a harsh booking, both had their feet up and he clearly won the ball). Silly from Albrighton but it was a direct result of the ref completely failing to protect the players. Everytime the ball was put in behind their left back he ignored the ball and just blocked the run so Wilson could get across and clear, 2 or 3 times it was right next to Massey and she just completely ignored it.
On top of that I know the handball rule is specifically stating that there should be some intention but it's very rare you'll see the ball bounce up, hit someone on the bicep and fall to their feet to score a tap in and not see if given as a handball, we were very unlucky with that one.
Regardless, if you nick the ball over a defender on the edge of the box and he clatters you when there is no covering defender you'd expect to see him get red, there have been a hell of a lot of incidents like that in the past that have been red cards, again unlucky.
The only time I think he was a touch lenient was with Delph where a 2nd yellow could well have been shown. I'll accept we might've been a bit lucky with that.
So 3 major incidents, they got the benefit of 2 to our 1 and, given the nature of one of them those decisions clearly affected the result.
Im not saying we didn't play badly but I don't think we deserved to lose and I don't think the ref helped us.
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Thought the big lanky twat handled it at the time then amfy "confirmed" it via text a bit later.
If I can see it from over 100 yrds away why can't the ref and a linesman?
Perhaps I have some kind of superpower?
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Or perhaps the ref is incompetent/ on the take
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@MatKendrick: Villa are one point & one place better off than at the same 17-game stage last season. 19 points instead of 18, 13th instead of 14th. #avfc
Progress.
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We've still not scored in the first half this season have we?
At home i'm pretty sure we haven't.
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We've still not scored in the first half this season have we?
At home i'm pretty sure we haven't.
Correct.
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What's this £300M figure? What about the millions recouped from selling all the top players? Not to mention the multi millions of TV money received over 7 years. You'll probably find that the net spend isn't that great.
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Albrighton was simply "taken out" 3 times, twice by the same player - the left back.
The ref never said a word as far as I could see, but then books players for silly tackles/fouls and ignores blatant handballs/red cards incidents.
Twunt
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What's this £300M figure? What about the millions recouped from selling all the top players? Not to mention the multi millions of TV money received over 7 years. You'll probably find that the net spend isn't that great.
You tell me what you think Randy's net investment is and where you get the figure from.
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Albrighton was simply "taken out" 3 times, twice by the same player - the left back.
The ref never said a word as far as I could see, but then books players for silly tackles/fouls and ignores blatant handballs/red cards incidents.
Twunt
I think they targeted Albrighton as the threat and set a plan to niggle at him with pushes. blocks and shirt pulls until the ref or lino called them up on it, unfortunately the ref never said a word.
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Did Lambert just blame the wind?
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The big lanky twat definitely controls the ball with his hand before he slots it home.
MOTD panel: not a word.
Shock horror!
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If relegation is part of being a work in progress I'd rather not get real, thanks.
OK what's your plan in that case?
We are 6 points above relegation zone even having lost 3 games on the trot so I again suggest get real.
I don't think we'll be relegated this season, but I think we are the new Wigan and our luck will give out at some point.
As for what my plan is... Stop buying shit players.
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The big lanky twat definitely controls the ball with his hand before he slots it home.
MOTD panel: not a word.
Shock horror!
Exactly, just imagine if that had happened to Chelsea.
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@MatKendrick: Villa are one point & one place better off than at the same 17-game stage last season. 19 points instead of 18, 13th instead of 14th. #avfc
Progress.
We are scraping the barrel now.
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Started reading this thread just now as the anger from the game had started to subside. It's coming back. Fucking awful.
Come back at 9am and you will see all sort of reports through rose-tinted spectacles.
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After reading the first couple of pages, I have to ask the question, are the posters being serious about sacking Paul Lambert?
Why sack Clarke? Your fans were calling for his head and I haven't heard many complaints since his sacking.
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Lets be honest, Albrighton did well to nick the ball from Wilson, but the touch was heavy and no way would he have got there before the keeper, ref made the correct decision.
As for their winning goal, Herd is not a premiership class centre back and should have hacked that ball clear, or if a class act like Kompany, into his own net. He should have done better, put the keeper off as well. On another point their first goal. I know Lambert said the other week that Herd had not lost a header v Fulham (I thought he was all over the place tbh). How the feck when they are lumping a long ball up is Herd marking Crouch and then the knock on comes to the flabby fox in the box Adams, who is too quick for the midget Baker. Fecking joke and Lambert should fecking explain that.
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Baker isn't even looking at the ball - he's concentrating on pushing Adam in the back.
You know, Charlie Adam, that lithe, slippery eel of a striker!
F**k me!
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@MatKendrick: Villa are one point & one place better off than at the same 17-game stage last season. 19 points instead of 18, 13th instead of 14th. #avfc
Progress.
Jesus. Its cold when laid out like that.
I need several drinks.
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Baker isn't even looking at the ball - he's concentrating on pushing Adam in the back.
You know, Charlie Adam, that lithe, slippery eel of a striker!
F**k me!
Yes, Baker showing his legendary positional skills yet again!
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Baker isn't even looking at the ball - he's concentrating on pushing Adam in the back.
You know, Charlie Adam, that lithe, slippery eel of a striker!
F**k me!
Yeah. The Baker dude is not all that.
Fuck me in both ears!
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I agree with the Baker comments, I said it quite early in this thread, he got drawn in far too easily to allow Adam to chest it into space, half a yard deeper and it was a simple situation to deal with, that's why I find him so frustrating, I could handle the shoddy distribution if he was a good defender but he's pulled out of position far too easily. Clark has made mistakes but I've never been truly nervous when he plays, I have serious reservations about Baker and I found it incredible that so many on here last year were happy to write off Clark and champion Baker.
That said I wish we could just have a season without a central defender being out long term, it's screwing the balance of the squad and has been the norm over the last 7-8 years bar MONs last season.
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50 years ive been going to villa park i see one real problem the feckin owner tight fisted yankee twat came here with great intentions but words mean jack
What does £300 million mean then?
An initial investment of £80m to buy the club.
About £120m of debt that Lerner provides at minimal rates.
All or most of which Lerner would expect to get back if he sold.
I can understand that he couldn't continue to pour money in chasing something that is out of his / our reach. But we've gone from one extreme to the other. A couple of good / known signings or loans now would make a world of difference to the team & without them we are going to continue to struggle.
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My concern is not just losing we are playing appallingly the goals we are conceding are from poor defending rather than good play and we are creating next to nothing.Take the first goal today first you have Clark diving in when he should of stayed on his feet. Freekick taken whilst he is still moaning , Crouch wins header against the far smaller Baker who is letting Adam run past him and his best efforts to stop him is a token push in the back.It's pathetic it really is.
Injuries are an issue of course which means we have had to keep chopping and changing the team but now we are losing players to suspensions Delph ,Gabby and now Westwood.The team lacks composure unable to play at less than 100 mph which they don' t have the technique to pull off leading to loss of possession attacking wise and late tackles defending.
Palace next is a must win no excuses.
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Same old shit !! We are boring, predictable, rash and just not good enough.
Everyone goes on about signing two quality experienced players but who ?? Who would come to Villa when we pay peanuts compared to other PL clubs.
There are good players available in the championship , Tom Ince, Jordan Rhodes, Matt Phillips but you have to be prepared to pay the wages. Instead we buy cheap from abroad or league one.
If you read this message five years ago you would think I was on about the Wolves, Albion or Small Heath but this is ASTON VILLA !!
We cant match the spending of Southampton, Hull or Cardiff
Its not good enough
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Next 3 games really are massive now.
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Are we still midtable and improving season by season in line with '' the plan''?
Or has it finally sunk home that we've signed some real shit footballers and Lambert 80% of the time has no idea how to set a team up and his football is atrocious.
He should have gone last January after his horror run and I've stuck to it since. Can anyone see what work we do in midweek? Any plans we try specifically for certain teams?
We are a dirty long ball team. Thanks Paul, now get your P45 and fuck off.
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All this debate!
Does anyone think we play good football?
Does anyone think our players are skilful? If so who in a team of 11
Whatever the injuries/wages/transfer money available are we looking a better team?
How much am I paying to watch this crap again?
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I missed the game so can't really comment on it. But it just seems to me that we're going through a rough patch. We usually have one every season, just seems to have come a bit early this time around.
The injuries to okore and vlaar are unfortunate and are costing us. This is not lamberts fault, but having no back-up arguably is. His or Lerner's. we don't know if he tried to sign anyone else.
We certainly need to make a few signings in Jan. A quality centre back and a quality midfielder in my view would make a world of difference. Proven quality and experience. Two players. 20m.
I suspect we won't be spending anything like that though.
I still think even if we don't make any signings and things stay the same, we've enough to stay up - but 4 seasons of the same sure is getting depressing.
Lambert still has a bit of credit in the bank as far as I'm concerned, but its dwindling rapidly. If Clarke can get the sack from the albion, then lambert must be sweating a bit now.
Lerner needs to either back him in Jan, or get rid at the end of the season. And the merry go round start again.
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Started reading this thread just now as the anger from the game had started to subside. It's coming back. Fucking awful.
Come back at 9am and you will see all sort of reports through rose-tinted spectacles.
You mean things you don't agree with? You mean when people have had the chance to sleep on it and come back with rational points of view rather than simply unleash pent-up explosions of fury?
And right on cue, look who’s here, still fuming a full eight hours after full time. It’s our “supporter” aJ2k77, with the charming:
“We are a dirty long ball team. Thanks Paul, now get your P45 and fuck off”.
Honestly, what part of you thinks that's acceptable? I was going to post this last Sunday (inspired by aj2k77’s anti-Lambert torrent of abuse on the match thread after 22 minutes against the champions. Yes, 22 minutes. That’s support for you). I decided against posting, but I’ve decided to do it this week, because I’m tired of all this.
I hate it when we lose. I hate it when we’re crap. But the thing I hate about it most of all, more than the fact that I can’t bear to watch the highlights, more than not wanting to read the reports, more than worrying about where we’re heading, the thing I hate most of all about being beaten is coming on this forum and seeing some of the vicious unthinking bile that people contribute to the discussion. I respect everyone’s right to an opinion even if I don’t agree with it; what I don’t respect is relentless unconstructive negativity and vitriolic abuse.
It’s obviously not everyone, thankfully I think the majority of people on this thread do try to be constructive in trying to fathom what the hell is going on at the moment. There have been some brilliant posts on here tonight. Unfortunately there is an increasing number who seemingly can hardly wait to put the boot in. Even when we win it’s because we were lucky; we deserved to lose, let’s not go and enjoy ourselves or anything.
I’m sick of people moving the goalposts like this; last season we didn’t have enough points at this stage – hence we were going down. This season we’ve got more points on the board – now we’re not playing well enough, hence we’re going down. Last season our defence was taking us down. This season it’s the lack of goals we score. I’m sick of people being so eager to find fault, I’m sick of people refusing to give credit where it’s due, I’m sick of people ignoring facts and statistics where they counteract their argument, I’m sick of angry feckers giving rude and sarcastic responses to anyone who dares to question their ire, and I’m sick of seeing anyone who posts a measured and considered message being leapt upon and called an apologist for Lambert. As for the personal abuse, well that’s just uncalled for; some of the match threads are vile. If some of you are as aggressive and obnoxious in real life as you come across on here then I‘m glad we’ve never met. And don’t give me the excuse that you’re pissed off. We’re all pissed off. We don’t all behave like you, thankfully. I hope none of you have pets of kickable size. In fact, I pity all your families if that’s what you’re like whenever we don’t win a match with the panache of Brazil 1970.
We’re all Villa supporters, right? We support the team, we support the club, well how about we support each other a bit as well? You know, letting off steam when appropriate, having a laugh when appropriate, in short, gauging the mood of our fellow Villa fans and engaging with them in a manner that is appropriate. As opposed to just getting angry and turning on people who might actually empathise with your point of view. I know I’d find defeats easier to bear if I could come on here and be part of some reasoned debate and exchange some gallows humour. These days a visit to the match and post-match threads makes every defeat feel worse. That’s not right. If I want to read mindless slagging off of Lambert I’ll go to the Small Heath forum. I don’t want to see it here.
If you’ve got nothing useful to say then please don’t post. This will sound simplistic, and that’s because it is: go and do something else instead. Get a new hobby. Go and visit some old folks in a hospice. Go to an owl sanctuary. Take yourself away, do something different and get some perspective. Do anything you like, just stop poisoning this site with your bad tempers. It doesn't help.
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My concern is not just losing we are playing appallingly the goals we are conceding are from poor defending rather than good play and we are creating next to nothing.Take the first goal today first you have Clark diving in when he should of stayed on his feet. Freekick taken whilst he is still moaning , Crouch wins header against the far smaller Baker who is letting Adam run past him and his best efforts to stop him is a token push in the back.It's pathetic it really is.
Injuries are an issue of course which means we have had to keep chopping and changing the team but now we are losing players to suspensions Delph ,Gabby and now Westwood.The team lacks composure unable to play at less than 100 mph which they don' t have the technique to pull off leading to loss of possession attacking wise and late tackles defending.
Palace next is a must win no excuses.
Crouch won the header against the far smaller Herd and then the lumpy Adam was too quick for Baker, apologies if my beer gogle eyes are wrong. Agree that beating Palace is a must
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A. Basics are still appalling (free kicks, throw ins, corners). All show no sign of any work during the week.
B. Signings. Bar the obvious one no others I would say have been a success and the majority of them are now among the first players we should be looking to sell.
C. Limited tactics. Sometimes baffling selections.
D. Style of play. Or actually no style of play. 11 players on a pitch chasing the ball around hoping something will happen with no plan from game to game as to how to make it happen. It really is as basic as that right now.
E. Substitutions. Rarely have any effect. We don't have strength in depth? Well wasn't that what his summer signings were touted as being?
Even his dour demeanour bugs me, he comes across as inspirational as Howard Wilkinson in his latter years and the team resembles him. Theres more reasons aswell which i'm sure your aware of seeing as you know when I post and at what minute of a particular game but I can't be bothered repeating them anymore.
£43m quid and he's produced this turd of a team and i'm sure theres no one salivating at the prospect of sticking the boot in after another dismal day. 99.9% would rather be arguing about who we should sign to solidify our champions league push rather than how the hell has Chris Herd managed to sneak back into the side again.
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Chinchilla Bathhouse: Your post above is too long to quote especially as all I'd want to add is that I agree 100% with it.
I honestly was starting to wonder if it was just me. It's getting to the stage that I'm wanting to switch off every Villa-related website and never go back to any of them. If we were bottom I'd understand it.
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When you can't beat Sunderland, Fulham or Stoke things look a whole lot clearer.
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How clear are things when you can beat arsenal and man city?
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When I find myself awake at 3-15 am worrying about a football club then it concerns me .
I really hope we get 2 results this week or we could find ourselves in deep trouble .
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The Christmas home double header is crucial.
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How clear are things when you can beat arsenal and man city?
One good win and one fluke win doesn't fill me with joy. We won't beat Arsenal at home and the same away at City. Lambert's 55 games in charge = 15 wins.
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When I find myself awake at 3-15 am worrying about a football club then it concerns me .
I really hope we get 2 results this week or we could find ourselves in deep trouble .
I'd be very depressed if I let the Villa bother me that much. I'm on here purely because I'm having a smoke break from a film. Much as I love the Villa, there are hundreds of things that would keep me up, but Villa losing isn't one of them.
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How clear are things when you can beat arsenal and man city?
One good win and one fluke win doesn't fill me with joy. We won't beat Arsenal at home and the same away at City. Lambert = 55 games in charge, 15 wins.
Same as two defeats at grounds we very rarely win at doesn't have me panicking.
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It used to keep me awake but it doesnt anymore. I stopped staying up to watch games at 1 am too - that really helps as going to bed angry/depressed/dispirited wasnt worth the very occasional elation.
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Off the top of my head I can't remember us putting in a ninety minute performance of quality and giving the opposition a hard time since the opening two games. Arguably at Norwich maybe. The stat about us now only being one point better off than the same stage last season has scared me to be honest. We need those two Christmas home games to go well or I think we will be back to last season with supporters and team lacking confidence and getting jittery.
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Off the top of my head I can't remember us putting in a ninety minute performance of quality and giving the opposition a hard time since the opening two games. Arguably at Norwich maybe. The stat about us now only being one point better off than the same stage last season has scared me to be honest. We need those two Christmas home games to go well or I think we will be back to last season with supporters and team lacking confidence and getting jittery.
Arsenal and Chelsea we were excellent - Norwich not so good - its a worrying stat as last season we had a really good last 3 months and found a style that worked for us - now teams are combatting that and we are struggling for goals .
Really is a huge week ahead of us - 4 points required at least i think.
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Any team that has their first pick centre halfs missing will struggle in defence, one out you can cover but both out at the same time is unlucky to say the least.
Clarke is competent with a senior player alongside him but Baker is a liability in any position and it just shows how weak a squad we've got that Lambert has to play him.
Westwood in midfield has been a big disappointment, when he gets the ball he does very little with it either he goes sideways or backwards, this has been the major weakness for a few years now i would say ever since Milner left and why this wasn't fixed in the summer it's hard to understand.
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How clear are things when you can beat arsenal and man city?
One good win and one fluke win doesn't fill me with joy. We won't beat Arsenal at home and the same away at City. Lambert's 55 games in charge = 15 wins.
Same as two defeats at grounds we very rarely win at doesn't have me panicking.
I'm not panicking either just not very optimistic.
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Started reading this thread just now as the anger from the game had started to subside. It's coming back. Fucking awful.
Come back at 9am and you will see all sort of reports through rose-tinted spectacles.
You mean things you don't agree with? You mean when people have had the chance to sleep on it and come back with rational points of view rather than simply unleash pent-up explosions of fury?
And right on cue, look who’s here, still fuming a full eight hours after full time. It’s our “supporter” aJ2k77, with the charming:
“We are a dirty long ball team. Thanks Paul, now get your P45 and fuck off”.
Honestly, what part of you thinks that's acceptable? I was going to post this last Sunday (inspired by aj2k77’s anti-Lambert torrent of abuse on the match thread after 22 minutes against the champions. Yes, 22 minutes. That’s support for you). I decided against posting, but I’ve decided to do it this week, because I’m tired of all this.
I hate it when we lose. I hate it when we’re crap. But the thing I hate about it most of all, more than the fact that I can’t bear to watch the highlights, more than not wanting to read the reports, more than worrying about where we’re heading, the thing I hate most of all about being beaten is coming on this forum and seeing some of the vicious unthinking bile that people contribute to the discussion. I respect everyone’s right to an opinion even if I don’t agree with it; what I don’t respect is relentless unconstructive negativity and vitriolic abuse.
It’s obviously not everyone, thankfully I think the majority of people on this thread do try to be constructive in trying to fathom what the hell is going on at the moment. There have been some brilliant posts on here tonight. Unfortunately there is an increasing number who seemingly can hardly wait to put the boot in. Even when we win it’s because we were lucky; we deserved to lose, let’s not go and enjoy ourselves or anything.
I’m sick of people moving the goalposts like this; last season we didn’t have enough points at this stage – hence we were going down. This season we’ve got more points on the board – now we’re not playing well enough, hence we’re going down. Last season our defence was taking us down. This season it’s the lack of goals we score. I’m sick of people being so eager to find fault, I’m sick of people refusing to give credit where it’s due, I’m sick of people ignoring facts and statistics where they counteract their argument, I’m sick of angry feckers giving rude and sarcastic responses to anyone who dares to question their ire, and I’m sick of seeing anyone who posts a measured and considered message being leapt upon and called an apologist for Lambert. As for the personal abuse, well that’s just uncalled for; some of the match threads are vile. If some of you are as aggressive and obnoxious in real life as you come across on here then I‘m glad we’ve never met. And don’t give me the excuse that you’re pissed off. We’re all pissed off. We don’t all behave like you, thankfully. I hope none of you have pets of kickable size. In fact, I pity all your families if that’s what you’re like whenever we don’t win a match with the panache of Brazil 1970.
We’re all Villa supporters, right? We support the team, we support the club, well how about we support each other a bit as well? You know, letting off steam when appropriate, having a laugh when appropriate, in short, gauging the mood of our fellow Villa fans and engaging with them in a manner that is appropriate. As opposed to just getting angry and turning on people who might actually empathise with your point of view. I know I’d find defeats easier to bear if I could come on here and be part of some reasoned debate and exchange some gallows humour. These days a visit to the match and post-match threads makes every defeat feel worse. That’s not right. If I want to read mindless slagging off of Lambert I’ll go to the Small Heath forum. I don’t want to see it here.
If you’ve got nothing useful to say then please don’t post. This will sound simplistic, and that’s because it is: go and do something else instead. Get a new hobby. Go and visit some old folks in a hospice. Go to an owl sanctuary. Take yourself away, do something different and get some perspective. Do anything you like, just stop poisoning this site with your bad tempers. It doesn't help.
My feelings entirely. I have never been a major contributor to this forum but feel that I have put effort and perspective into my comments.
I am currently on holiday in Thailand and sat down with a mate (another Villa supporter of nearly 50 years) to watch the match live. I do not believe we deserved to lose and crucial decisions went against us at important times in the match. Many of our thoughts on how the match was going was backed up by the commentators.
We are clearly suffering through injuries to key players and we need to bring some players in. I have always had a feeling that since Lambert took over we have been treading water until some of our youngsters started to come through. Not the ones that started to appear during the course of previous managers but ones that reach the U21s during the course of Lambert's reign. Although we have produced good reserve sides, I always thought it was due to the collective, rather than the individuals and this is why few of them have stood out in the first team.
January is a bad time to buy players as not many want to move on mid-season. I think there is far better value in loans at this time of year, more so with it being World Cup year. There must be a lot of experienced international class players that cannot get games with their clubs but need to be playing. Even if we have to break our wage structure for half a season just to bring some stability to the team when we are struggling with injuries. As many have identified, a central midfield player in the more advanced role is a must. Somebody that can dictate play. A central defender is another and, I believe, a goal scorer. The goal scorer needs to be somebody that can compliment a big striker. I am not sure how many loan players you can bring in, is it 2 from your own league but unlimited from overseas.
We then need to reassess the position at the end of the season when we are able to off load some of the high earners. There have been comments earlier about comparing Lambert with McLeish but in my opinion McLeish wasted money that we did not have on high long term contracts for Hutton, Given and CNZ. The result of this is Lambert having to shop at the likes of Aldi but there again you occasionally do get some quality their at bargain prices.
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Agree entirely with chinchilla, a breath of fresh air
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for any one like me who was either too depressed or didn't want to sit through Manchester United and City thrashing teams on MOTD last night just to see our game right at the death, I found the goals on youtube.
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I couldn't see us losing that at half time yesterday, I thought Stoke were absolutely dire in the first half. Although I've seen us play a lot worse, we should be picking up at least a point against teams like that. I hope he has some players lined up in January because we need them.
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50 years ive been going to villa park i see one real problem the feckin owner tight fisted yankee twat came here with great intentions but words mean jack
What does £300 million mean then?
divided by how many years and how much do the big clubs spend I wouldnt mind if he ever came to villa park but he avoids the place
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When I find myself awake at 3-15 am worrying about a football club then it concerns me .
I really hope we get 2 results this week or we could find ourselves in deep trouble .
I'd be very depressed if I let the Villa bother me that much. I'm on here purely because I'm having a smoke break from a film. Much as I love the Villa, there are hundreds of things that would keep me up, but Villa losing isn't one of them.
Same here. Once a game has gone, it's gone. Chatted about it on the coach on the way back, then it was more or less forgotten by the time we got to the pub.
Oh and Chincilla B, fantastic post.
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Come back at 9am and you will see all sort of reports through rose-tinted spectacles.
You mean things you don't agree with? You mean when people have had the chance to sleep on it and come back with rational points of view rather than simply unleash
CB without quoting the entire excellent post thank you for taking time to write this. It would have been so much easier to just write "same old shit....sack him now" and be applauded by the doomsday merchants rather than appreciated by "rose-tinted" wearers.
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I completely agree that unduly aggressive, vulgar or offensive posts are not welcome here BUT we can't expect everyone to agree and the moment views seem to be polarised around Lambert. I respect (and admire) other peoples ability to find comfort when we were tenth even though if you judged the football we were in trouble. Now we are just one point ahead of last seasons dire performance and we draw comfort from not being bottom. I just don't think we should wait until we are there to make changes. I have acknowledged many times that Lambert won't be sacked and even if he did a new manager would have no more money but I just can't ever see him making the difference. I DO however believe if he can get say 5 points or more from the next three games it makes sense to continue but say pick up a single point then no. There are coaches who could get more out of these players to the end of the season and then we can "go again". For all that I will be making my 180 mile journey in hope on Boxing Day UTV
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I hate it when we lose. I hate it when we’re crap. But the thing I hate about it most of all, more than the fact that I can’t bear to watch the highlights, more than not wanting to read the reports, more than worrying about where we’re heading, the thing I hate most of all about being beaten is coming on this forum and seeing some of the vicious unthinking bile that people contribute to the discussion. I respect everyone’s right to an opinion even if I don’t agree with it; what I don’t respect is relentless unconstructive negativity and vitriolic abuse.
It’s obviously not everyone, thankfully I think the majority of people on this thread do try to be constructive in trying to fathom what the hell is going on at the moment. There have been some brilliant posts on here tonight. Unfortunately there is an increasing number who seemingly can hardly wait to put the boot in. Even when we win it’s because we were lucky; we deserved to lose, let’s not go and enjoy ourselves or anything.
I’m sick of people moving the goalposts like this; last season we didn’t have enough points at this stage – hence we were going down. This season we’ve got more points on the board – now we’re not playing well enough, hence we’re going down. Last season our defence was taking us down. This season it’s the lack of goals we score. I’m sick of people being so eager to find fault, I’m sick of people refusing to give credit where it’s due, I’m sick of people ignoring facts and statistics where they counteract their argument, I’m sick of angry feckers giving rude and sarcastic responses to anyone who dares to question their ire, and I’m sick of seeing anyone who posts a measured and considered message being leapt upon and called an apologist for Lambert. As for the personal abuse, well that’s just uncalled for; some of the match threads are vile. If some of you are as aggressive and obnoxious in real life as you come across on here then I‘m glad we’ve never met. And don’t give me the excuse that you’re pissed off. We’re all pissed off. We don’t all behave like you, thankfully. I hope none of you have pets of kickable size. In fact, I pity all your families if that’s what you’re like whenever we don’t win a match with the panache of Brazil 1970.
We’re all Villa supporters, right? We support the team, we support the club, well how about we support each other a bit as well? You know, letting off steam when appropriate, having a laugh when appropriate, in short, gauging the mood of our fellow Villa fans and engaging with them in a manner that is appropriate. As opposed to just getting angry and turning on people who might actually empathise with your point of view. I know I’d find defeats easier to bear if I could come on here and be part of some reasoned debate and exchange some gallows humour. These days a visit to the match and post-match threads makes every defeat feel worse. That’s not right. If I want to read mindless slagging off of Lambert I’ll go to the Small Heath forum. I don’t want to see it here.
If you’ve got nothing useful to say then please don’t post. This will sound simplistic, and that’s because it is: go and do something else instead. Get a new hobby. Go and visit some old folks in a hospice. Go to an owl sanctuary. Take yourself away, do something different and get some perspective. Do anything you like, just stop poisoning this site with your bad tempers. It doesn't help.
Stands. Applauds. Awards post of the month.
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Any side outside the top 2 or 3 would find it difficult with so many players injured at the same time, particularly when it is your two first choice strikers and centre backs. I suspect that with the number of games coming so close together at this time of year Lambert is managing his squad and so I am hoping to see a stronger line up on Boxing Day.
That said we were the better side in the first half and they shaded the second, a draw would have been a fair result.
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We just need to eat our turkey up and go again.
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I hate it when we lose. I hate it when we’re crap. But the thing I hate about it most of all, more than the fact that I can’t bear to watch the highlights, more than not wanting to read the reports, more than worrying about where we’re heading, the thing I hate most of all about being beaten is coming on this forum and seeing some of the vicious unthinking bile that people contribute to the discussion. I respect everyone’s right to an opinion even if I don’t agree with it; what I don’t respect is relentless unconstructive negativity and vitriolic abuse.
It’s obviously not everyone, thankfully I think the majority of people on this thread do try to be constructive in trying to fathom what the hell is going on at the moment. There have been some brilliant posts on here tonight. Unfortunately there is an increasing number who seemingly can hardly wait to put the boot in. Even when we win it’s because we were lucky; we deserved to lose, let’s not go and enjoy ourselves or anything.
I’m sick of people moving the goalposts like this; last season we didn’t have enough points at this stage – hence we were going down. This season we’ve got more points on the board – now we’re not playing well enough, hence we’re going down. Last season our defence was taking us down. This season it’s the lack of goals we score. I’m sick of people being so eager to find fault, I’m sick of people refusing to give credit where it’s due, I’m sick of people ignoring facts and statistics where they counteract their argument, I’m sick of angry feckers giving rude and sarcastic responses to anyone who dares to question their ire, and I’m sick of seeing anyone who posts a measured and considered message being leapt upon and called an apologist for Lambert. As for the personal abuse, well that’s just uncalled for; some of the match threads are vile. If some of you are as aggressive and obnoxious in real life as you come across on here then I‘m glad we’ve never met. And don’t give me the excuse that you’re pissed off. We’re all pissed off. We don’t all behave like you, thankfully. I hope none of you have pets of kickable size. In fact, I pity all your families if that’s what you’re like whenever we don’t win a match with the panache of Brazil 1970.
We’re all Villa supporters, right? We support the team, we support the club, well how about we support each other a bit as well? You know, letting off steam when appropriate, having a laugh when appropriate, in short, gauging the mood of our fellow Villa fans and engaging with them in a manner that is appropriate. As opposed to just getting angry and turning on people who might actually empathise with your point of view. I know I’d find defeats easier to bear if I could come on here and be part of some reasoned debate and exchange some gallows humour. These days a visit to the match and post-match threads makes every defeat feel worse. That’s not right. If I want to read mindless slagging off of Lambert I’ll go to the Small Heath forum. I don’t want to see it here.
If you’ve got nothing useful to say then please don’t post. This will sound simplistic, and that’s because it is: go and do something else instead. Get a new hobby. Go and visit some old folks in a hospice. Go to an owl sanctuary. Take yourself away, do something different and get some perspective. Do anything you like, just stop poisoning this site with your bad tempers. It doesn't help.
Stands. Applauds. Awards post of the month.
Brilliantly put.
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We just need to eat our turkey up and go again.
But turkey makes you sleepy as well as tasting like dried vermin.
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Good post baddowvillans. It's not all polarised there is middle ground and that's where I am. Changing managers will equal relegation sooner or later. We need to stick with Lambert for now and if all he does is just about avoid relegation come end of the season than we need to rethink. That does not mean its the end for him at that time but an all round review of club will be required which may include change of all coaching staff and a different policy.
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For all that are hoping Milner will come back on loan forget it, he plays a vital role for City albeit from the bech on most occassions.
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We just need to eat our turkey up and go again.
No for FFS not turkey again.
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You look at the league right now and 10th downward are bloody awful to be frank. This league is going to shite. Even are a team as inconsistent as Liverpool currently sit top of the league, largely off the back of two players (one of whom they've been without for a couple of weeks now).
I'm actually surprised all our sides made it to the CL knockouts, although I don't expect any of them to get close to winning it. Ze German league is better, as is Italian, Spanish (obviously) and even le French league is catching up.
I think there'll be 7-8 teams this season who'll struggle to make 40 points. No one is going to waltz away with the title either. Thankfully I think we've got enough quality that we won't be in danger of going down, but we'll be scrapping with everyone else to finish somewhere between 10th-16th. Which I guess in our current financial situation could equate to a few extra million in the coffers.
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For all that are hoping Milner will come back on loan forget it, he plays a vital role for City albeit from the bech on most occassions.
I'm still asking Santa though. You'll all just have to hope I've been a good boy this year.
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I do wonder what Lambert is thinking though when he leaves a left back on the bench and plays a centre half there and thinks that Chris Herd is a central defender. It's possible that he wanted a bit of height in there bearing in mind we were playing Stoke but Herd was going to play last week as well so maybe not. As for Bowery, that sub was just so obvious yesterday and a little bit pointless.
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Chinchilla Bathouse : I see where you're coming from but don't agree. Football is just a soap opera to me these days and some of the comments people put on here an extension of that. I love reading the bile and frustration much more than the considered pieces, there I've said it. When it reaches personal abuse that's unacceptable but the knockabout letting off steam stuff I love. They brought out a positive news story only tabloid a few years back, it bombed because people lap up the bad stuff and while a thread of positivity would be nice, it'd bore the pants off me.
To this end I'd just like to tell everyone on here to bog off and have a rotten Christmas during which you get poisoned by the turkey. Villa are going down with bells on and it'll be Lambert's fault.
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You look at the league right now and 10th downward are bloody awful to be frank. This league is going to shite. Even are a team as inconsistent as Liverpool currently sit top of the league, largely off the back of two players (one of whom they've been without for a couple of weeks now).
I'm actually surprised all our sides made it to the CL knockouts, although I don't expect any of them to get close to winning it. Ze German league is better, as is Italian, Spanish (obviously) and even le French league is catching up.
I think there'll be 7-8 teams this season who'll struggle to make 40 points. No one is going to waltz away with the title either. Thankfully I think we've got enough quality that we won't be in danger of going down, but we'll be scrapping with everyone else to finish somewhere between 10th-16th. Which I guess in our current financial situation could equate to a few extra million in the coffers.
I don't agree that League is crap and that continental leagues are much better. PL is more competitive this season. English clubs are progressing in CL and EL for good reasons. German league is dominated by one great team and as is Spanish. Italian league is a joke where Napoli ran riots but got knocked out of CL.
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The overriding feeling watching the game was that it was two very poor sides. The amount of misplaced passes, hopeless lumps upfield and general negativity from both sides was frightening. Neither side deserved to win it, so the fact we lost it says much for how fragile we are defensively without Vlaar.
Herd is not a centre back, he's barely a footballer. He chases the ball like a schoolkid, Baker's positional sense and brain capacity isn't much better. Lambert has signed flakey fullbacks, limited sideways midfielders and Benteke. It's not a great record. We've gone backwards in the style of football and he's basically got himself in a real muddle, formation and selection wise.
He deserves two more transfer windows but now needs to spend 20 million on 2-3 players of better quality. I looked at Tonev yesterday and thought that's exactly what 3 million gets you from the Polish league.
But the upshot is, we only have 1 more point than at the same time last year and I wouldn't have any confidence in us breaking down a team set up by Pulis at home, however limited they clearly are.
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Hhhmmm. I think everyone is entitled to express an opinion on this forum within reasonable guidelines. Knowing he goes nowhere near this site, I find attacks on Lambert less offensive than personal attacks aimed a fellow posters (you're just about to find the irony in this). A lot of people avoid kicking their pets by pouring out their frustrations on here, sometimes constructively, sometimes not. Does it matter? I don't think countering those posts by supposedly, coolly and calmly throwing all your teddies out of the cot helps either. If you start trying to dictate how people conduct themselves on here then you end up with a dictatorship. I believe we have moderators to deal with posts that cross the line of public decency.
As for the biggest dividing issue, I can forgive Lambert his transfer dealings. He has had a terribly limiting budget for a club of our stature. Some of his purchases have worked, most haven't. Fair play, but many believe he has compounded the issue with some of his unfathomable and many varied tactics; substitutions, formations and team selections have often left me feeling we are partially rudderless. As a previous poster stated, I envy those fellow Villains who keep faith in the management and believe things will improve. I can't emphasis enough how I am willing many of you to be right and all the doubters wrong. However, as I try to instil some optimism into my flagging resolve I cast my mind back to.the League cup semi final. Getting schooled by a fourth tier side. Not in a one-off anything can happen fixture, but over two legs of football. I still see the hapless Lambert stood on the touch line of VP in the remaining minutes and the decisions he took to try and turn the tie around. Decisions I would not have expected from a ten year old MOTD devotee. If you think Lambert is the man to take this club forward then great but I defend the right of those that are less convinced. Simple.
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You look at the league right now and 10th downward are bloody awful to be frank. This league is going to shite. Even are a team as inconsistent as Liverpool currently sit top of the league, largely off the back of two players (one of whom they've been without for a couple of weeks now).
I'm actually surprised all our sides made it to the CL knockouts, although I don't expect any of them to get close to winning it. Ze German league is better, as is Italian, Spanish (obviously) and even le French league is catching up.
I think there'll be 7-8 teams this season who'll struggle to make 40 points. No one is going to waltz away with the title either. Thankfully I think we've got enough quality that we won't be in danger of going down, but we'll be scrapping with everyone else to finish somewhere between 10th-16th. Which I guess in our current financial situation could equate to a few extra million in the coffers.
I don't agree that League is crap and that continental leagues are much better. PL is more competitive this season. English clubs are progressing in CL and EL for good reasons. German league is dominated by one great team and as is Spanish. Italian league is a joke where Napoli ran riots but got knocked out of CL.
Compared to 10 years ago there's been a definite decline in the quality of the Prem league. It's also why a lot of our best players consistently end up looking to move to Spain. The German league has got better in 10 years. The French league, largely because of money granted, is becoming more competitive now. 5 years ago it was bordering on Championship standard.
I think the general standard of football isn't brilliant either. 5-6 clubs play decent football but the rest struggle when it comes to possession of a football (inc ourselves of course). It's almost a counter attacking league. Spain might be getting dominated by the best side in the world, but there's still a lot of good players in that league, playing good football. Italy isn't brilliant I grant you, they're on a decline too, but if you played 18 Italian clubs against all but the bottom 2 of the Prem right now, the Italians would probably win more. IMO.
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Worst team in 20 years.
Not even close
Since 1993, really?
Yes
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I do wonder how people find enough time in their day to become experts on all the leagues around Europe.
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It's not just the day we spend a fair amount of night time on this as well. Of course being on the dole or off work with stress brought on by Villa's plight also helps.
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Who has claimed to be an expert on all the leagues around Europe?
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Who has claimed to be an expert on all the leagues around Europe?
It was just a flippant, throwaway remark - don't take it all so seriously. It was because I often read comments on teams and players from around the world that I have never heard of, because I barely seem to find the time to keep up with The Premier league and couldn't tell you, without looking it up, who is top of the Championship. It just amazes me how people do it.
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Worst team in 20 years.
Not even close
Since 1993, really?
Yes
That team yesterday, ability wise, is the worst I have seen since we were last relegated and I have been going since 71. Truly awful.
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I agree with you Nick and I started in exactly the same season as you
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I've been inflicting massive amounts of addictive Villa pain on myself since the early 1960s and despite regular promises to wean myself off you can't. This probably is one of the worst squads we've had in a very long time but ultimately its my club's worse squad, we all go on supporting them no matter what, and everybody less fortunate in their club of choice can just go and do one. Having said that, it would be nice to be treated to a bit of positive free flowing football in the New Year.
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I think we have a weak squad, a lot of players who are average at best, apart from CB who would command a substantial transfer fee?Is it the worst team in 25 years?........can't be far off tbh, but in its defence it is a young , maturing squad, which could develop into a good team.
Good management needed.
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I purposely stopped off here last night just to allow people to let off steam.
However, it was awful again I'm afraid. At the moment I can't see where the next goal is coming from, never mind next win. Very worrying times and Palace is simply a must win game.
I'm clinging onto the fact that last season we tended to do the business in the "must-win" games (Reading, QPR, Sunderland, Norwich), but I certainly wouldn't put money on it at the moment. There are far too many players who are either not up to the job, or just aren't performing to the standard we know they can.
There is simply no depth to the squad, and with a few injuries and suspensions, that is painfully exposed.
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More dreadful defending from Villa for both goals yesterday. Why is that we tend to be the team everyone wants to play to get theirseason going? Crystal Palace next and I really see nothing but a goalless draw.
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[/quote]Who has claimed to be an expert on all the leagues around Europe?
It was just a flippant, throwaway remark - don't take it all so seriously. It was because I often read comments on teams and players from around the world that I have never heard of, because I barely seem to find the time to keep up with The Premier league and couldn't tell you, without looking it up, who is top of the Championship. It just amazes me how people do it.
i dont even know who plays for most of the teams in the premier league. I am only interested in Villa. Everyone else is just an opposition player at an opposition club. I have never seen a champions league game (live nor on TV). I have no interest in International Football or football in general. I accept Villa as a club with a policy of spending as little as possible in the transfer market. A club who will stand or fall on their ability to raise young players through their youth teams supplemented by the purchase of young raw prospects from other clubs. This means that Villa will always have a sub standard quality of player trying to survive in a league of high earning 'star' players at cash rich (or heavily overdrawn) clubs. Never the less, Villa is the club that I was born to support and nothing will ever change that. It can be said that our full backs are not good enough, our midfielders have no vision or lack the ability to find a forward pass and our strikers are incompetent but if they are the only ones the club can afford then they will get my backing and support. Merry Christmas everybody with claret and blue blood in their veins.
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I think we have a weak squad, a lot of players who are average at best, apart from CB who would command a substantial transfer fee?Is it the worst team in 25 years?........can't be far off tbh, but in its defence it is a young , maturing squad, which could develop into a good team.
Good management needed.
Some of the players I'm not sure will ever be good enough. At the moment I have hopes for Kozak as a useful squad player. Okore looks good. Benteke is obviously very good. Vlaars an okay player too.
The others I'm just not sure. Bacuna looks incredibly awkward with a ball at his feet, unless it's a freekick on 25 yards. Luna is shocking, KEA is one of the worst players we've ever had, Tonev has a terrible touch, can't run with the ball. He can knock it past a fullback and chase it, but then the end product is poor 9/10. Bowery is bewildering.
Lowton and Westwood could make it in a year or two, but as squad players at best.
It's definitely the worst squad we've had since I've been watching (23). Better managers with better squads have flirted with relegation for us. I think we're asking for trouble at the moment. It won't happen next year, but without a drastic shift in emphasis, and Lambert to find another level himself, it's more likely we're heading to the Championship than finishing comfortably top half every season.
A lot has been said of Delphy, as being our best midfielder, but he's a very limited footballer. He wouldn't get into a single team in the top 8 at the moment. He'd barely make some benches. It's too much to expect him to run our midfield when he's a player who doesn't have a great touch or passing ability. Our benchmark needs to be buying players better than Delph in midfield. But I worry we're looking at more players like Westwood, who in 2-3 years might be reasonable. I don't think Westy will ever be a better player than Delph, but that's our level. Delph's our best midfielder and he's average.
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The stat about us now only being one point better off than the same stage last season has scared me to be honest. We need those two Christmas home games to go well or I think we will be back to last season with supporters and team lacking confidence and getting jittery.
This time last year we were just about to lose 8-0 v chelsea, which arguably kick started our slump through to about March. Therefore that stat isn't *that* bad when put in the context of what happened last season. I'm confident we will not become quite that bad this season, but also doubt we'll have a run like we did in april/may last season.
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That team yesterday, ability wise, is the worst I have seen since we were last relegated and I have been going since 71. Truly awful.
I agree with you Nick and I started in exactly the same season as you
I think we need to form a 71ers starters club. It's all of us who started watching the Villa rise from the depth of the third division.
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That team yesterday, ability wise, is the worst I have seen since we were last relegated and I have been going since 71. Truly awful.
I agree with you Nick and I started in exactly the same season as you
I think we need to form a 71ers starters club. It's all of us who started watching the Villa rise from the depth of the third division.
Typical of you glory hunters Aftab. I was a few years ahead of you and suffered the demise to the third division. We resent you youngsters jumping on the bandwagon to success.
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It's also why a lot of our best players consistently end up looking to move to Spain.
But they don't do they, they go to Barcelona or Real, other teams in Spain end up getting shit like Hutton on loan.
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I think this a much weaker team/ squad than that in 1987. They were a bunch underperforming cretins 'managed' by person who did not give a shit despite his achievements in the game. It is a weaker first 11 than in Dolly's last season. I don't think it is as good an as Taylor's team that got promoted.
Example - similar sized club Everton who are the worst of the best / best of the rest. Who would get into their first 11 from ours? Guzan probably our best player is about as good as their keeper though Howard is USA number one - you could argue either way. I prefer Guzan but both are good. Delph maybe on his 2013 form. Who else? None. In fact there aren't many who would get into their squad. Vlaar, Gabby and CB - if the lights get switched on.
We have a poor team capable of smash and grab raids every so often coupled with one good performance is 6 on average, except it is normally 2 good performances, 10 not so good ones. We have minimal on field leadership and lack any sort of creativity.
Sorry to be a merchant of doom especially as off field we seem to have improved markedly in the last 18 months but I don't see anything other than another relegation scrap. 0 points from the last 3 games even we would have expected at least 2. Next 2 games are huge and I hope I am eating humble pie re relegation scrap come this time next week
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50 years ive been going to villa park i see one real problem the feckin owner tight fisted yankee twat came here with great intentions but words mean jack
What does £300 million mean then?
Not rich enough to compete with the Arabs.
Not smart enough to compete with Hill-Wood, Levy or even Kenwright.
All in all - a sad waste of a wealthy man's inherited money.
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50 years ive been going to villa park i see one real problem the feckin owner tight fisted yankee twat came here with great intentions but words mean jack
What does £300 million mean then?
Not rich enough to compete with the Arabs.
Not smart enough to compete with Hill-Wood, Levy or even Kenwright.
All in all - a sad waste of a wealthy man's inherited money.
Wasted by that pube headed one dimensional twat anyway.
Good amount of money wasted by someone most of us thought wold do the job...
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50 years ive been going to villa park i see one real problem the feckin owner tight fisted yankee twat came here with great intentions but words mean jack
What does £300 million mean then?
Not rich enough to compete with the Arabs.
Not smart enough to compete with Hill-Wood, Levy or even Kenwright.
All in all - a sad waste of a wealthy man's inherited money.
Wasted by that pube headed one dimensional twat anyway.
Good amount of money wasted by someone most of us thought wold do the job...
There was a good point made last night - it's not the capital outlay that's the problem, it's the wages. We are still paying out more than is coming in, and that can't continue. No matter what the club (with two exceptions), you can't keep running up losses year after year and expecting the Bank of Owner to bale you out every summer, like over-indulgent parents with their student child.
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Are Bent and Hutton both in their final year of contract ?
I think given still has a couple of years to go., not sure on nzogbia either?
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Are Bent and Hutton both in their final year of contract ?
I think given still has a couple of years to go., not sure on nzogbia either?
2016 Nzogbia's massive deal is up. Another who got a 5 year contract.
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Typical of you glory hunters Aftab. I was a few years ahead of you and suffered the demise to the third division. We resent you youngsters jumping on the bandwagon to success.
Yes guilty as charged Paul especially after our win against Best, Charlton and Co previous December!
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Hhhmmm. I think everyone is entitled to express an opinion on this forum within reasonable guidelines. Knowing he goes nowhere near this site, I find attacks on Lambert less offensive than personal attacks aimed a fellow posters (you're just about to find the irony in this). A lot of people avoid kicking their pets by pouring out their frustrations on here, sometimes constructively, sometimes not. Does it matter? I don't think countering those posts by supposedly, coolly and calmly throwing all your teddies out of the cot helps either. If you start trying to dictate how people conduct themselves on here then you end up with a dictatorship. I believe we have moderators to deal with posts that cross the line of public decency.
As for the biggest dividing issue, I can forgive Lambert his transfer dealings. He has had a terribly limiting budget for a club of our stature. Some of his purchases have worked, most haven't. Fair play, but many believe he has compounded the issue with some of his unfathomable and many varied tactics; substitutions, formations and team selections have often left me feeling we are partially rudderless. As a previous poster stated, I envy those fellow Villains who keep faith in the management and believe things will improve. I can't emphasis enough how I am willing many of you to be right and all the doubters wrong. However, as I try to instil some optimism into my flagging resolve I cast my mind back to.the League cup semi final. Getting schooled by a fourth tier side. Not in a one-off anything can happen fixture, but over two legs of football. I still see the hapless Lambert stood on the touch line of VP in the remaining minutes and the decisions he took to try and turn the tie around. Decisions I would not have expected from a ten year old MOTD devotee. If you think Lambert is the man to take this club forward then great but I defend the right of those that are less convinced. Simple.
This. The post of the depressives. I nominate you chairman of the board.
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It does worry me when Lambert says on TV ' I thought we were brilliant first half'
I was not watching the same game , It was an awful Stoke team we were playing and we were below ok .
wheres he get brilliant from
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We were so brilliant MOTD didn't show anything from us in the first half ....
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That team yesterday, ability wise, is the worst I have seen since we were last relegated and I have been going since 71. Truly awful.
I agree with you Nick and I started in exactly the same season as you
I think we need to form a 71ers starters club. It's all of us who started watching the Villa rise from the depth of the third division.
I remember Tommy Doc being brought in and made the statement on ATV news that he'd get Villa out of the 2nd Div..and we went in the Third! It was great year with incredible crowds as we came back up..Then I think again in a parallel universe. What now?
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It does worry me when Lambert says on TV ' I thought we were brilliant first half'
I was not watching the same game , It was an awful Stoke team we were playing and we were below ok .
wheres he get brilliant from
Quite, I would say average at best 1st half and poor 2nd half - certainly words like excellent or brilliant are way over the top.
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It does worry me when Lambert says on TV ' I thought we were brilliant first half'
I was not watching the same game , It was an awful Stoke team we were playing and we were below ok .
wheres he get brilliant from
From the world of doing your job on the training pitch, not through the media. If you're looking for brutal honesty, don't listen to pre or post-match manager interviews.
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Not seen the goals conceded, how bad are they ?
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Not seen the goals conceded, how bad are they ?
Not great defending on either but we have conceded worse this season .
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There was a situation in the first half when Westwood had the ball at his feet in space in the Stoke half on the right hand side as we were looking. Weimann and Kozak where running through on the far left unmarked. A simple cross field pass would have put them through 2 on one. Westwood, in the pressure of a Premier League game picked out their goalie, that's what you get when you buy players from Crewe. I like Westwood,he's steady enough, but he's not a 'proper' premier league player.
You get what you pay for I suppose.
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Yesterday was a very poor performance,we never really looked like scoring and we did look shaky at the back an this was against a very average stoke to team. To be fair we did have 3 of our best players out yesterday which didn't help,but Lerner really needs to get his cheque book out in early January and get a couple of experienced players in. Looking on the bright side we are a couple of wins from a comftable position min mid table. Palace is massive now must win is an understatement!!!!
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Yesterday was a very poor performance,we never really looked like scoring and we did look shaky at the back an this was against a very average stoke to team. To be fair we did have 3 of our best players out yesterday which didn't help,but Lerner really needs to get his cheque book out in early January and get a couple of experienced players in. Looking on the bright side we are a couple of wins from a comftable position min mid table. Palace is massive now must win is an understatement!!!!
I don't generally disagree with your assessment there but what on earth does 'must win' mean in the context of the Palace game? Yes, it's a game we should be looking to win but what happens if we lose? What happens if you lose a 'must win' game?! And how on earth can any league game in December be 'must win'?!
Our fate this year will be based on our performance over 38 games. For every crap performance and result against the likes of Stoke or Hull there are much better performances and results against the likes of Arsenal and Man City. There really isn't any need to add made up pressure by designating games as 'must win' when they're anything but.
You'll give yourself a heart attack is you watch Villa with that mindset!!! ;)
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in my recent experience it helps to watch the villa without any mind set
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Yesterday was a very poor performance,we never really looked like scoring and we did look shaky at the back an this was against a very average stoke to team. To be fair we did have 3 of our best players out yesterday which didn't help,but Lerner really needs to get his cheque book out in early January and get a couple of experienced players in. Looking on the bright side we are a couple of wins from a comftable position min mid table. Palace is massive now must win is an understatement!!!!
I don't generally disagree with your assessment there but what on earth does 'must win' mean in the context of the Palace game? Yes, it's a game we should be looking to win but what happens if we lose? What happens if you lose a 'must win' game?! And how on earth can any league game in December be 'must win'?!
Our fate this year will be based on our performance over 38 games. For every crap performance and result against the likes of Stoke or Hull there are much better performances and results against the likes of Arsenal and Man City. There really isn't any need to add made up pressure by designating games as 'must win' when they're anything but.
You'll give yourself a heart attack is you watch Villa with that mindset!!! ;)
Some might argue that if you're in the grouping of teams we are in, every game is a must win. The quicker you get to 40 points the better...of course yes, it's probably not conducive to good mental health, but I can thoroughly understand why we look at the next game as a must win having struggled with relegation 3 years on the spin.
Again, you look at us right now. 3 defeats on the bounce. We now have a home game against Palace. They're a side a lot of clubs in the same boat as us will be looking to try and bully. To kick them and keep them firmly ensconced in the bottom 3. If they pulled off a win, you'd be looking at arguably the second shittest team in the Prem this season catching up within sniffing distance of us.
So yep, it might give me a heart attack, but I do think it's a must win.
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There was a situation in the first half when Westwood had the ball at his feet in space in the Stoke half on the right hand side as we were looking. Weimann and Kozak where running through on the far left unmarked. A simple cross field pass would have put them through 2 on one. Westwood, in the pressure of a Premier League game picked out their goalie, that's what you get when you buy players from Crewe. I like Westwood,he's steady enough, but he's not a 'proper' premier league player.
You get what you pay for I suppose.
I think the wind played a big part in the example you've given, as it did for a number of other similar passes, it seemed to grab anything over a few yards up in the air and give it a real nudge on from behind us in the first half. Going that direction there were a hell of a lot of balls like that which went very long in that direction, I don't thin you can put that down to a lack of ability.
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The difference between Aston Villa being a 12th to 8th side, quality of football notwithstanding, is Ron Vlaar and Jose Okore.
If Vlaar stays fit at Southampton, we win 3-0. If Vlaar is on the pitch yesterday, we win one nil.
Baker is nowhere near up to it at this level and it's costing us as it did last winter.
Thank gripes we have Palace next to drill some confidence pre-Swansea.
The midfield is a player short, especially when you have the excellent Kozak making room, finding space and working hard in need of more service. But it's all built on sand with Baker at the back.
Why we tried to out Stoke the truly awful Stoke I don't know.
But us a centre half. Then a number 10, then we can make more concrete stands physically shudder by singing and jumping after Kozak has scored again.
That said, as bad as we were, Stoke we're no better and yet again a weak referee and some cheating has proper shafted us.
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could not agree more about baker,out of his depth,we need to start looking at midfield and defence,which is shit
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good summing up Ads, I agree totally on the central defence, it's very easy to criticise the squad but no one plans to lose a central defender for the season as early as we did, that just isn't sensible, we got really unlucky with Okore and it's costing us at the minute.
I also agree totally on Kozak, I'm sold on him completely, I think he'll do very well for us over the next few years if we can learn how to use him.
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Gabby on the left, Albrighton on the right, Kozak through the middle against Palace.
I'd like to see Gary Gardner getting a game in midfield. We need 3 in there and I'd rather not see KEA in there for a while. Sylla has been poor this season too.
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The difference between Aston Villa being a 12th to 8th side, quality of football notwithstanding, is Ron Vlaar and Jose Okore.
If Vlaar stays fit at Southampton, we win 3-0. If Vlaar is on the pitch yesterday, we win one nil.
Baker is nowhere near up to it at this level and it's costing us as it did last winter.
Thank gripes we have Palace next to drill some confidence pre-Swansea.
The midfield is a player short, especially when you have the excellent Kozak making room, finding space and working hard in need of more service. But it's all built on sand with Baker at the back.
Why we tried to out Stoke the truly awful Stoke I don't know.
But us a centre half. Then a number 10, then we can make more concrete stands physically shudder by singing and jumping after Kozak has scored again.
That said, as bad as we were, Stoke we're no better and yet again a weak referee and some cheating has proper shafted us.
I agree, Baker is a real problem. Our full back options aren't good enough either and the lack of creativity is a big worry.
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I've come to the conclusion with Baker, that one of the reserve defenders should be playing ahead of him. They surely can't be any worse?
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I've come to the conclusion with Baker, that one of the reserve defenders should be playing ahead of him. They surely can't be any worse?
See also KEA, Tonev, Bowery. I'll be kind and stop there.
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I've come to the conclusion with Baker, that one of the reserve defenders should be playing ahead of him. They surely can't be any worse?
Donacien should be on the bench at least.
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I think Tonev must have an unusually heavy head as that's the only explanation I can come up with for why he always appears to be off balance.
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I think Tonev must have an unusually heavy head as that's the only explanation I can come up with for why he always appears to be off balance.
Made me laugh.
Tonev is one of the worst players I have seen in a Villa Shirt, yet Lambert keeps playing him.
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There have been far, far worse over the years.
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Don let hyperbolic shite get in the way of wasting good bandwidth Legion.
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I admit he's not great by any stretch of the imagination.
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MotD (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/stoke-2-aston-villa-1-motd/)
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Don let hyperbolic shite get in the way of wasting good bandwidth Legion.
I said one of the worst, he is without doubt one of the worst but yes I could come up with some other awful Villa players.
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There have been far, far worse over the years.
I can't think of too many.
As for Baker, let's not make him the new scapegoat, it's not like the defence get any protection from the midfield or that our full backs can defend. I like baker he's a brave player and I hope it pans out for him at villa. Would hate to see him in a sha or smethwick kit.
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Baker isn't the scape goat for all our issues, but he is not a Premier League player. His bravery is highlighted by last ditch lunges, which are because his positioning is woeful.
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There have been far, far worse over the years.
I can't think of too many.
As for Baker, let's not make him the new scapegoat, it's not like the defence get any protection from the midfield or that our full backs can defend. I like baker he's a brave player and I hope it pans out for him at villa. Would hate to see him in a sha or smethwick kit.
He's not that good. Think Saddlers.
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Baker isn't the scape goat for all our issues, but he is not a Premier League player. His bravery is highlighted by last ditch lunges, which are because his positioning is woeful.
He is a future Collins and that's all.
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I really want to see Baker do well but his errors are pretty fundamental, he gets caught out of position far too often. When Clark has made mistakes it's generally been getting too tight or trying to nip ahead of his man and being caught out by the extra skill/strength/pace Baker is just generally in a bad starting position too often. There have been a number of defenders in the league who've been the same, the ones who make it have generally been quick enough to make up for the mistake, I'm no convinced Baker is quick enough to do that.
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Baker isn't the scape goat for all our issues, but he is not a Premier League player. His bravery is highlighted by last ditch lunges, which are because his positioning is woeful.
JT has made a World Class career out of such challenges with especially bad positional sense.
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Baker isn't the scape goat for all our issues, but he is not a Premier League player. His bravery is highlighted by last ditch lunges, which are because his positioning is woeful.
JT has made a World Class career out of such challenges with especially bad positional sense.
As much as I don't like John Terry, he's at a completely different level to Baker.
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Liam Ridgewell had posters lining up to slag him off but he turned out a lot better than he was given credit for in many quarters.
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Baker isn't the scape goat for all our issues, but he is not a Premier League player. His bravery is highlighted by last ditch lunges, which are because his positioning is woeful.
JT has made a World Class career out of such challenges with especially bad positional sense.
As much as I don't like John Terry, he's at a completely different level to Baker.
Agree PWa - I was being somewhat flippant. Baker is not good however even he would look better playing with Carvaleho and Sol Campbell in their pomp mind.
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I agree, that's why Baker has looked OK alongside Vlaar.
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I don't think he did, I think Clark has looked decent next to Vlaar but Baker not so much.
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Baker isn't the scape goat for all our issues, but he is not a Premier League player. His bravery is highlighted by last ditch lunges, which are because his positioning is woeful.
He is a future Collins and that's all.
If he's lucky.
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Baker looked fine towards the end of last season, hence why a lot of people on here were talking of keeping him and replacing Clark.
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Baker is fine as a 4th choice cb who plays now and again. The problem is the amount of games he is starting because of injuries is massively showing us why he is only the 4th choice.
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Liam Ridgewell had posters lining up to slag him off but he turned out a lot better than he was given credit for in many quarters.
He made a career at the Baggies. I'd argue that proves he wasn't good enough.
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Hey ,don't forget he also played for the rags before he went to the Baggies .
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Only read the last page after posting last night. It is not about Baker, I said I do not think he is good enough for the premiership, but to blame him is wrong. If he had been marking Crouch instead of Herd , it is unlikely we would have gone one down. Absolute nonsense to lose a goal from a free kick from that area. We are missing Vlaar massively and I hope his critics accept that. I think him and Clark together are a decent partnership, though cant wait till Okore is back. I thought Bacuna has been bought as a midfielder, didnt he compare himself to Lampard? He has shown a bit about him, give him a fecking chance instead of Tonev, who is out of his depth at the minute. Weiman has to stop moaning at the refs and fecking start playing, he has been amongst the worst and there are a few. Cant believe he makes a comment today about not worrying about lack of goals, he fecking well should. Spuds went 4-4-2 today and went for it, we should against Palace, but the forwards have to be the first line of defence. Dont sit back, be in their fecking faces and give them some
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Baker is all blood and guts able to make great blocks and get his head on cross's ..but his postioning s very suspect especially when Vlaar is nto next to him.The other issue with him is his passing it poor put Herd next to him ,who I read had a 36% success rate for passing yesterday
and you have a recipe for disaster.
Clark has improved yet I still think be has played best for us as a DMF
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Baker is not the problem.
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Liam Ridgewell had posters lining up to slag him off but he turned out a lot better than he was given credit for in many quarters.
He made a career at the Baggies. I'd argue that proves he wasn't good enough.
Ridgewell was an inadequate top flight defender with us and has gone on to prove that with Blues and Albion.
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Baker is not the problem.
He has been a big part of the problem for the last two seasons. Did you see the ease with which Charlie Adam turned him to score yesterday? Week before, a terrible pass leads to Man Utd scoring. He is a liability I'm afraid.
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Liam Ridgewell had posters lining up to slag him off but he turned out a lot better than he was given credit for in many quarters.
He made a career at the Baggies. I'd argue that proves he wasn't good enough.
Ridgewell was an inadequate top flight defender with us and has gone on to prove that with Blues and Albion.
Ridgewell is a better player than Baker, and he's not very good. Bakers being used more than he should be, but the injuries can't be helped sadly. Had Okore and Vlaar been fit all season, I don't think we'd have seen Baker in the league by now..
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well Lambert needs to get them to actually pass the ball to each other .
We have the worse passing completion in the league , other than Palace
what a great passing game thats going to be
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Baker is not the problem.
He has been a big part of the problem for the last two seasons. Did you see the ease with which Charlie Adam turned him to score yesterday? Week before, a terrible pass leads to Man Utd scoring. He is a liability I'm afraid.
Charlie Adam is one of those players who will beat even the most experienced defenders. I said that he would score when he ran past us at half time. Those type of players always do. I regretted us letting Kevin Phillips go. He carried on scoring goals for years and I knew that he would.
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A. Basics are still appalling (free kicks, throw ins, corners). All show no sign of any work during the week.
B. Signings. Bar the obvious one no others I would say have been a success and the majority of them are now among the first players we should be looking to sell.
C. Limited tactics. Sometimes baffling selections.
D. Style of play. Or actually no style of play. 11 players on a pitch chasing the ball around hoping something will happen with no plan from game to game as to how to make it happen. It really is as basic as that right now.
E. Substitutions. Rarely have any effect. We don't have strength in depth? Well wasn't that what his summer signings were touted as being?
Even his dour demeanour bugs me, he comes across as inspirational as Howard Wilkinson in his latter years and the team resembles him. Theres more reasons aswell which i'm sure your aware of seeing as you know when I post and at what minute of a particular game but I can't be bothered repeating them anymore.
£43m quid and he's produced this turd of a team and i'm sure theres no one salivating at the prospect of sticking the boot in after another dismal day. 99.9% would rather be arguing about who we should sign to solidify our champions league push rather than how the hell has Chris Herd managed to sneak back into the side again.
Well no, I happened to note that particular post of yours from that particular minute of that particular game because it was particularly appalling. As was your input last night/early this morning. This, your latest riposte, highlights exactly what I'm saying. You make some fair and valid points and then you spoil it all by having a snarling dig at me. Why so hostile all the time? This will shock you, but I actually agree with some of your comments.
I don't want to prolong this theme, I felt I needed to make a point so I made it. I'm glad to see that a few people have agreed and I'm not on my own here. To be clear, I'm not saying I think we should all be happy clappy on here and turn a blind eye to our problems. I'm not expecting us all to agree with each other, far from it; I like a debate, I think it's healthy to be able to thrash out our worries and get things off our chests. That's what this forum is for. All I'm asking is that people behave with a little decorum and remember that, ultimately, we're all on the same side.
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Completely agree with aj2k77, it's utterly appalling and I think we're entitled to be as angry about it as we want to be. Without of course being derogatory to other posters
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Completely agree with aj2k77, it's utterly appalling and I think we're entitled to be as angry about it as we want to be. Without of course being derogatory to other posters
I can see some valid points on both sides of the argument - we are all n the same side but we sure as hell need to get some points over these 3 games as the last few weeks have been very poor .
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I completely disagree with aj2k77. We were easily the better team versus stoke, we lost, it happens but we played the better football. We won against Southampton playing much worse. Thats football, a lot of luck involved.
I like our team , I like our owner and manager. I find Lambert's tactics to be astute and flexible. As for his substitutions.. yeah he blew it not reacting to Adam, but he sure nailed it against West Brom.
We will be fine this season, we all hate losing but I choose to get over it and look forward to watching Villa play the next game.
And I like being a happy clappy. Life is a lot more fun. Tonev to score and UTV :)
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Baker is not the problem.
He's certainly not the answer either.
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Baker is not the problem.
He is one of several problems in the side - defence , midfield and attack all have problems.
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Hey ciggiesnbeer, " I find Lambert's tactics to be astute and flexible " I think you must have had to much pop son