Stoke City v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[pauliewalnuts]

Unless Vlaar gets back quickly and stays fit, we are going to be in trouble. Plenty of effort and spirit, but no composure or leadership. 5 players booked is a damning statistic.

Looking through this thread - this is about the only comment I can really agree with. Without Vlaar and Gabby there is no experience. First half we were comfortable because Stoke were even more shite than we were. The ref had no bollocks, their left back was kicking lumps out of Albrighton, Shawcross was all over Kozak, their keeper didn't have the ball when Weimann was taken out, we just didn't have the ability to to take advantage.

Stoke put Adam on 2nd half - he's not much good but changed the game - simply because he knew how to encourage his team mates to wind up our young inexperienced players.

A lot of our players are struggling but they are not totally incompetent - we need a couple of old heads in there to steady the ship. To tell the young ones the best way to beat a "clogging team" like Stoke is to keep playing football, when you get fouled get up and wait for them to foul you again, even an inept ref will eventually get the message. Don't get up and get booked in the next challenge.

Inept ref - how can any ref let Stoke get away with tactics where Weimann is held back every time he tries to break away? He might not have the ball - but it was obviously part of Stoke's plan.

I will probably be in a small minority - but sacking Lambert is not the answer to our problems. We are not small time like the Tescos Baggies.

One bright spot - "The Library is ours" song - pity those off the field showed more class than those on the field.

I don't see how that is the only thing you can agree with when you then go on to make a load of points which lots of other people have also made. It's not as if you're swimming against the tide with any of that. Not even the bit about sacking Lambert.

[Morten]

Only 4 out of 10 outfield players today were bought by Lambert. BUT the entire bench consisted of players bought by Lambert, basically meaning that they are not better than what we had. And, honestly, during the game, none of us probably thought that Luna/Sylla/Bacuna/KEA/Helenius/Bowery would come on and change the game. When you buy cheap, this is what you get. Lambert says he wants to play football the right way, then why does he not buy people who are good footballers ?

[supertom]

Only 4 out of 10 outfield players today were bought by Lambert. BUT the entire bench consisted of players bought by Lambert, basically meaning that they are not better than what we had. And, honestly, during the game, none of us probably thought that Luna/Sylla/Bacuna/KEA/Helenius/Bowery would come on and change the game. When you buy cheap, this is what you get. Lambert says he wants to play football the right way, then why does he not buy people who are good footballers ?

That Bowery coming on was supposed to be Lamberts masterstroke tells you everything you need to know about him as a manager, and us as a club at the moment.

[SashasGrandad]

Unless Vlaar gets back quickly and stays fit, we are going to be in trouble. Plenty of effort and spirit, but no composure or leadership. 5 players booked is a damning statistic.

Looking through this thread - this is about the only comment I can really agree with. Without Vlaar and Gabby there is no experience. First half we were comfortable because Stoke were even more shite than we were. The ref had no bollocks, their left back was kicking lumps out of Albrighton, Shawcross was all over Kozak, their keeper didn't have the ball when Weimann was taken out, we just didn't have the ability to to take advantage.

Stoke put Adam on 2nd half - he's not much good but changed the game - simply because he knew how to encourage his team mates to wind up our young inexperienced players.

A lot of our players are struggling but they are not totally incompetent - we need a couple of old heads in there to steady the ship. To tell the young ones the best way to beat a "clogging team" like Stoke is to keep playing football, when you get fouled get up and wait for them to foul you again, even an inept ref will eventually get the message. Don't get up and get booked in the next challenge.

Inept ref - how can any ref let Stoke get away with tactics where Weimann is held back every time he tries to break away? He might not have the ball - but it was obviously part of Stoke's plan.

I will probably be in a small minority - but sacking Lambert is not the answer to our problems. We are not small time like the Tescos Baggies.

One bright spot - "The Library is ours" song - pity those off the field showed more class than those on the field.

I don't see how that is the only thing you can agree with when you then go on to make a load of points which lots of other people have also made. It's not as if you're swimming against the tide with any of that. Not even the bit about sacking Lambert.

I'm just pissed off like everybody else and talking utter bollocks like everybody else!

Lambert needs to find somebody like him in his playing days - to sit in midfield and steady the ship.

[Monty]

Bowery really is useless. I'd much rather have seen Jack Grealish come on.

[AVFCRob]

Not that he's any great loss but ashley Westwood is suspended for the palace game .

Phew, one crumb of comfort...one game without drilled corners beyond the back stick that never, ever threaten a goal. A walking, talking dictionary definition of anonymity.

[Legion]

Bowery really is useless. I'd much rather have seen Jack Grealish come on.

I really cannot understand why Lambert plays him out of all his purchases. I'd have rather seen Helenius given a chance.

[WALTERS WARRIORS]

Only 4 out of 10 outfield players today were bought by Lambert. BUT the entire bench consisted of players bought by Lambert, basically meaning that they are not better than what we had. And, honestly, during the game, none of us probably thought that Luna/Sylla/Bacuna/KEA/Helenius/Bowery would come on and change the game. When you buy cheap, this is what you get. Lambert says he wants to play football the right way, then why does he not buy people who are good footballers ?

That Bowery coming on was supposed to be Lamberts masterstroke tells you everything you need to know about him as a manager, and us as a club at the moment.

I agree that when we needed someone "game changing" and then put Bowery on, it just seemed so obvious how poor our squad really is. PL really has to pull out some quality next month. Thought the defence first half was very good. We just do not have any players (other than Albrighton today) who can create anything .......

[supertom]

Bowery really is useless. I'd much rather have seen Jack Grealish come on.

Add Robinson, Carruthers, Johnson for Tonev, KEA.

[Morten]

Looking at the table and the way other teams are performing I do not think we need 40 points to survive, actually I am not too concerned about relegation. But like others I am depressed that we seem to settle for that, I have heard nothing from Lerner/Faulkner/Lambert suggesting we are more ambitious than that. I have no hopes for spectacular signings in January. I had that last January when we were in a worse position and we ended up with Sylla and Dawkins on loan...

[richard moore]

Mazrim defined it on another thread and I very much agree with him.   Something has happened at Villa Park that we do not know about.   I really do have the feeling that the club has lost its heart.   As I have said recently even in the darkest times we always believed totally that we would rise again.   The last four seasons have got me feeling that IF we do rise again it will only be to the top half of the premiership.   That is an absolutely monumental act of defeatism.

So how did the club lose its heart?   I believe it is the consequence of losing an owner for all his faults and they were many and well known, who loved the club and loved the game.   In Steve Stride we had an executive who also loved the game.   They have been replaced by Randy Lerner and Paul Faulkner for whom Aston Villa Football Club are no more than a business investment.   I am sure Randy likes "soccer" and takes an interest in our games, albeit from a distance but Faulkner will never be a football man while he has a hole in his arse.

I am very disappointed with Lambert, very disappointed indeed but until the very top level of the club matches the Villa fans' love of the club and the love of the game of football no amount of managerial musical chairs is going to make the slightest difference.

It is not the low wages and the bargain basement buys which are eroding the Villa, it is the fact that they are seen as an end in themselves.   Aston Villa's holy grail is not to hold aloft the European Cup once more but to have a nice tidy set of accounts lodged at the bank all in the black and all blessed by the approving nods of accountants and bankers.

When we, the fans, raised the hundred grand for Tommy Docherty to buy Brucie, he bought Brucie and it made one heck of a difference (actually they threw in that wonderful club servant his brother Neil) but what he did not do was buy ten ten grand squad players.

If Lambert gets money in the January window he is a leopard who will not change his spots, he will buy cheap again but it is all hypothetical because he will not get any money and he will not sign anybody.

I feel your passion Brian , very good post .

When did I give you permission to be me Brian?! Yes, an excellent post, exactly what it's all about for me not whether Lambert is better than TSM or whether Helenius should come on instead of Bowery etc etc etc etc. We've lost our soul and Aston Villa is nothing like the club I remember wanting to be associated with when I 'signed up' in the early 70s. We've become also rans, boring and irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things. Lerner has presided over much of this and I shudder to think of the euphoria I felt when I sold my shares to him. The framed certificate on my landing wall is a cruel and mocking reminder. We are a million miles from the Aston Villa I used to know and love

[pauliewalnuts]

I too struggle to see how Grealish is likely to be any less effective than Tonev.

Grealish might not be ready for the PL yet, but Tonev quite clearly isn't.

[pauliewalnuts]

Looking at the table and the way other teams are performing I do not think we need 40 points to survive, actually I am not too concerned about relegation. But like others I am depressed that we seem to settle for that, I have heard nothing from Lerner/Faulkner/Lambert suggesting we are more ambitious than that. I have no hopes for spectacular signings in January. I had that last January when we were in a worse position and we ended up with Sylla and Dawkins on loan...

I just think, at the very base level, it'd be nice to see us play well once in a while. A shorter while.

[ozzjim]

The frustration is that we can, and did at the back end of the season. I think the complacency from that has made Lambert almost think it will click again at some point. It isn't happening though.

[supertom]

The frustration is that we can, and did at the back end of the season. I think the complacency from that has made Lambert almost think it will click again at some point. It isn't happening though.

Bentekes form hasn't helped, and I think Westwood and Lowton have hit the wall. It's partly form certainly, but for those two  I think it's also a case of not being good enough at this level to be honest. They've been quite easily worked out. Westwood has been horrific this season.

But we were incredibly reliant on Benteke last season. Even games we weren't brilliant he could win by himself at times. Again, his form and fitness haven't helped, and likewise we've been worked out and have no answer.
The trouble is our good form last season wasn't down to any great subtlety. It was a lot of energy, a lot of pace, some momentum and players in form. At some point at this level you need a bit more subtlety and a bit more nous to succeed.