Stoke City v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[Monty]

If Lambert sees the problem then he has a chance of getting us back to playing as we have done under him (which people have completely forgotten). McLeish was never going to improve because he didn't think he had to. Clearer?

[eastie]

The quality of our football is just so poor - i really can't see things  improving against palace or swansea- we are so dreadful  at home and pulis will make it very difficult for us - I even fear barry bannan will take us apart and that's very disconcerting .

[Matt Collins]

Gonna switch off from villa until the next game and didn't really follow this one

But we just absolutely must get vlaar fit again or get a right footed centre back in January, or both. I just don't think the club can bear another struggle like last year again. I don't think the fans would stay with them again. We've had enough of it year after year.

But those wanting randy to go - be careful what you wish for. If he wants even half of his investment back we'll be another Leeds United .

[Legion]

Reaction to a Tonev shot:

On a lighter note, I'm on a iphone currently, what's the easiest way for me to get this gif so I can message it? Love that gif.

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/213892-1/Baby-fireworks-reaction.gif

[edgysatsuma89]

Reaction to a Tonev shot:

On a lighter note, I'm on a iphone currently, what's the easiest way for me to get this gif so I can message it? Love that gif.

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/213892-1/Baby-fireworks-reaction.gif

Cheers Leeg

[Jon Crofts]

If Lambert sees the problem then he has a chance of getting us back to playing as we have done under him (which people have completely forgotten). McLeish was never going to improve because he didn't think he had to. Clearer?

I like your thinking, but you make it sound like we've been playing well recently under Lambert and this is a blip he'll turn around.  The truth is we haven't played well for a good while, we've scraped a few results together, got our heads above water and have expected to kick on.  Constantly comparing Lambert to McLeish is also wearing thin, as I said earlier if improving on McLeish is the benchmark then we may as well pack up and go home.  I don't know what the answer is and I'd be very disappointed if Lambert was sacked because it means yet more turmoil.

[Monty]

If Lambert sees the problem then he has a chance of getting us back to playing as we have done under him (which people have completely forgotten). McLeish was never going to improve because he didn't think he had to. Clearer?

I like your thinking, but you make it sound like we've been playing well recently under Lambert and this is a blip he'll turn around.  The truth is we haven't played well for a good while, we've scraped a few results together, got our heads above water and have expected to kick on.  Constantly comparing Lambert to McLeish is also wearing thin, as I said earlier if improving on McLeish is the benchmark then we may as well pack up and go home.  I don't know what the answer is and I'd be very disappointed if Lambert was sacked because it means yet more turmoil.

I agree, it's worse than a blip, it's a chronic loss of form from no-one more than him, and he needs to pick it up. But he is open to new ideas and new ways of doing things, and has hit a standard in the past that was no accident and which owed a lot to him. He can turn it around, I think - it's just about whether or not he does.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Allardyce.

Sack Lambert for the shit football and bad results, and replace him with a manager playing even shitter football and currently getting even shitter results.

That'll work.

Even shitter football? Not that I think we should even jokingly whisper his name in connection with the VIlla but BFS's West Ham certainly  didn't play shitter football last month when we met. Only one team parked the bus against a team without a striker. Fuck, it was embarrassing.

[edgysatsuma89]

If Lambert sees the problem then he has a chance of getting us back to playing as we have done under him (which people have completely forgotten). McLeish was never going to improve because he didn't think he had to. Clearer?

Not really, because that would suggest that he hasn't had the chance to change how we play considering he knows it's crap, obviously he knows we're crap. It's been pretty clear how poor we have been playing and there has been zero sign of that changing, in fact it's getting worse. You could say he has not had enough time, which may be fair enough, but we aren't even getting the basics right. Don't get me wrong I've not forgotten how shit we were under McBallbag. But passing a ball, really?

[KevinGage]

Well that was dire.

Like a full starting XI of Bruce Dyers.

I'm not convinced by PL, it's hard to gloss over some of the woeful results and performances since he took over in 2012.  It's fair to say there has probably been more bad than good so far.  But there has been good-most notably the last four months of the campaign where we got some impressive results in a highly pressurised situation.

This season, we generally have a bit more resolve about us too.  I'm sure that's been worked on. Pre Vlaar injury, we were looking more secure at the back, and the absolute dread we felt whenever we had to defend set pieces has subsided somewhat.

Let him have this window (and hopefully the next) to address the fairly obvious failing we have in the centre of the park. That needs to be the next step.  More experienced central defensive cover wouldn't go amiss either.

Lambert hasn't done anywhere enough as a manger to be compared to David Moyes, but I do think back to some of the poor starts his Everton side had to the season.  Even after finishing 4th and a few top 6 finishes, there were calls to ditch Moyes when Everton were near the bottom at Christmas. At least on three separate occasions that I can recall.  With only one or two home wins on the board and similar criticism over the style of football.

But Everton -who to my mind were about as entertaining as watching paint dry up until about 2006- did evolve.  From about 2009 onwards, I actually felt they were quite an attractive side to watch.

Again, I'm not suggesting that sticking with PL will automatically bring about a similar upturn in fortunes. And he won't get seven years to make us halfway watchable, I think that's a given.   But in the time he has been with us there has been measurable progress. He does seem to learn and -I would hope- if we can see our failings, he will too.

[edgysatsuma89]

For all we are disagreeing Montbert, I like you're positivity. It would be pretty depressing otherwise. I'm definitely Ying.

[sirlordbaltimore]

Painful. Again

[Monty]

If Lambert sees the problem then he has a chance of getting us back to playing as we have done under him (which people have completely forgotten). McLeish was never going to improve because he didn't think he had to. Clearer?

Not really, because that would suggest that he hasn't had the chance to change how we play considering he knows it's crap, obviously he knows we're crap. It's been pretty clear how poor we have been playing and there has been zero sign of that changing, in fact it's getting worse. You could say he has not had enough time, which may be fair enough, but we aren't even getting the basics right. Don't get me wrong I've not forgotten how shit we were under McBallbag. But passing a ball, really?

Believe me I'm dissatisfied with the style, and some might even remember that I was in a minority of about three who didn't want him when he was appointed. However, there is a level he has got us to with remarkably small resources, and deserves more than half a season to do so again.

[pauliewalnuts]

If Lambert sees the problem then he has a chance of getting us back to playing as we have done under him (which people have completely forgotten). McLeish was never going to improve because he didn't think he had to. Clearer?

I think the difference is:

McLeish -> did with us what he does as a manager, no pretence to playing better football, it was always going to be like that.

Lambert -> wants us to play better football, currently failing dismally.

That is not making an excuse for Lambert, there aren't any at the moment, this is his squad and he has to get results out of them. It's no good people saying "but some of these players have had a chronic lack of form", either, because that's his job - getting them *in* form.

So, i have zero illusions about Lambert at the moment, it's rubbish, unacceptable rubbish (which i noticed today seems to have also become petulant rubbish).

The core difference between him and McLeish is crucial, though.

Much rather someone who tries but fails than someone who just surrenders from the outset and hopes he can get away with it.

Neither of them are brilliant, but one is much more acceptable or understandable than the other.

[eastie]

Not that he's any great loss but ashley Westwood is suspended for the palace game .