Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Legion on December 29, 2012, 08:26:42 PM
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What should be his way forward and how far is he culpable for our current situation? Keep it constructive, please.
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He needs to sell up.
His heart isn't in it and his football knowledge is on par with my 2 cats.
All style and no substance, please sell up Lerner before the fans wade in on you with abuse, at least bugger off while we can still come up with the odd positive about your 'stewardship.'
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Admit he is clueless and appoint a football man as his Chief Executive.
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The club's steep decline can be traced to the day he started having to make important decisions. Can't put it any more simply than that.
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The club's steep decline can be traced to the day he started having to make important decisions. Can't put it any more simply than that.
Spot on Hilts.
Rabbit, meet headlights.
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The club's steep decline can be traced to the day he started having to make important decisions. Can't put it any more simply than that.
Correct. It's been one bad decision after another for quite some time now
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He needs to sell up.
His heart isn't in it and his football knowledge is on par with my 2 cats.
All style and no substance, please sell up Lerner before the fans wade in on you with abuse, at least bugger off while we can still come up with odd positive about your 'stewardship.'
This.
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Who is to say he hasn't been actively trying to sell? We don't hear much from the board anyway but there was rumours last season. The problem could either be the asking price, lack of interest, or the only ones interested are worse chancers that make Blues, Blackburn and Portsmouth owners look like Abramovich.
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Who is to say he hasn't been actively trying to sell? .
You'd soon know if a high profile club like Villa was up for grabs, no way could you keep that secret.
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Who is to say he hasn't been actively trying to sell? .
You'd soon know if a high profile club like Villa was up for grabs, no way could you keep that secret.
If he wanted to sell surely it would be be best to advertise the fact in order to attract a possible buyer.
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Supply the money,keep the finances in order ,appoint a good manager and leave well alone.He's done the first and last well. Poor appointments in Houllier and TSMS and failed to control MON's spending and short term approach. Better chairman than Doug who sold our best assets when there was no need nor pressure to do so.
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Who is to say he hasn't been actively trying to sell? .
You'd soon know if a high profile club like Villa was up for grabs, no way could you keep that secret.
I suppose it depends. Most times the leak comes from buyers or sellers leaking it to the papers and we know how much Randy hates people he is dealing with going to the papers. And has I said, we have had rumours previously of him sending feelers out for either partial ownership or other options.
My main question to him is how good was the Laser removal clinic and did it leave a scar on his ankle?
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Lerner needs to sell up he just isn't interested anymore, some of the decisions he has made have been disastrous. If Ellis had made some of the decisions he has done the last few years he would have got no end of shit for it, Lerner has got off lightly in my opinion.
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Hire the world's best salesman, send him directly to Doha, sell for whatever you can get. That's what Lerner should do.
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Paul Faulker is paid a fair whack to run the club.The pair of them should go.
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Lerner needs to sell up he just isn't interested anymore, some of the decisions he has made have been disastrous. If Ellis had made some of the decisions he has done the last few years he would have got no end of shit for it, Lerner has got off lightly in my opinion.
TBH, RL and PF has been given loads of stick on here since MON walked. Not a day has gone by without Rip calling him a bastard or a ******.
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Lerner needs to sell up he just isn't interested anymore, some of the decisions he has made have been disastrous. If Ellis had made some of the decisions he has done the last few years he would have got no end of shit for it, Lerner has got off lightly in my opinion.
TBH, RL and PF has been given loads of stick on here since MON walked. Not a day has gone by without Rip calling him a bastard or a c***.
I have never heard anyone say anything about Lerner at the ground though which is more where I was coming from.
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Randy Venky has proved that saying which i have stated on here before, You can allways rely upon Americans to make the right decision when they have exhausted all other options. W Churchill.
He finaly made the right managerial choice but his previous decisions had allready caught up with him.
He wont be selling with the clubs future in doubt and I think he will hand over funds in January in an attempt to protect his investment.
Appointing the right people is the most critical and often difficult decision, RV is obviously useless in this area.
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Lerner needs to sell up he just isn't interested anymore, some of the decisions he has made have been disastrous. If Ellis had made some of the decisions he has done the last few years he would have got no end of shit for it, Lerner has got off lightly in my opinion.
TBH, RL and PF has been given loads of stick on here since MON walked. Not a day has gone by without Rip calling him a bastard or a c***.
Can't remember calling either a bastard or a c.unt.
Hopelessly incompotent and moronic, yes.
Who cares, i'm in a minority anyway.
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TBH, RL and PF has been given loads of stick on here since MON walked. Not a day has gone by without Rip calling him a bastard or a c***.
I've said before that it surprises me that Lerner and Faulkner don't get far more stick than they do, especially on here. There isn't anyone who bears more responsibility for the club's disastrous trajectory over the last three seasons than those two.
I've seen some posters whose opinions I generally respect contort themselves in trying to apportion blame to anyone other than Lerner and Faulkner. Purely my own view and all that but at a time when the club's direction is so diabolically bad I would have thought that an established fanzine like H&V should be hammering the ownership with all its might.
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TBH, RL and PF has been given loads of stick on here since MON walked. Not a day has gone by without Rip calling him a bastard or a c***.
I've said before that it surprises me that Lerner and Faulkner don't get far more stick than they do, especially on here. There isn't anyone who bears more responsibility for the club's disastrous trajectory over the last three seasons than those two.
I've seen some posters whose opinions I generally respect contort themselves in trying to apportion blame to anyone other than Lerner and Faulkner. Purely my own view and all that but at a time when the club's direction is so diabolically bad I would have thought that an established fanzine like H&V should be hammering the ownership with all its might.
Agreed.
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Okay, the club's in steep decline, our best players have left the club one by one over the past few years, and there's little hope we'll have a shot, never mind win the odd football match. But the Holte Mosaic is pretty nice.
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TBH, RL and PF has been given loads of stick on here since MON walked. Not a day has gone by without Rip calling him a bastard or a c***.
I've said before that it surprises me that Lerner and Faulkner don't get far more stick than they do, especially on here. There isn't anyone who bears more responsibility for the club's disastrous trajectory over the last three seasons than those two.
I've seen some posters whose opinions I generally respect contort themselves in trying to apportion blame to anyone other than Lerner and Faulkner. Purely my own view and all that but at a time when the club's direction is so diabolically bad I would have thought that an established fanzine like H&V should be hammering the ownership with all its might.
Agreed.
I look forward to the contributions of you both.
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If he's not selling, he needs to invest it really is as simple as that.
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Maybe the reason Lerner has escaped much flak at villa park is that he is rarely ever there .
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I look forward to the contributions of you both.
Feel free to use any of my posts, especially the ones about stupid Americans.
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The club's steep decline can be traced to the day he started having to make important decisions. Can't put it any more simply than that.
Spot on.
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Okay, the club's in steep decline, our best players have left the club one by one over the past few years, and there's little hope we'll have a shot, never mind win the odd football match. But the Holte Mosaic is pretty nice.
In actual fact its not as classy as the last one and I still dont like the badge much either.
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TBH, RL and PF has been given loads of stick on here since MON walked. Not a day has gone by without Rip calling him a bastard or a c***.
I've said before that it surprises me that Lerner and Faulkner don't get far more stick than they do, especially on here. There isn't anyone who bears more responsibility for the club's disastrous trajectory over the last three seasons than those two.
I've seen some posters whose opinions I generally respect contort themselves in trying to apportion blame to anyone other than Lerner and Faulkner. Purely my own view and all that but at a time when the club's direction is so diabolically bad I would have thought that an established fanzine like H&V should be hammering the ownership with all its might.
Agreed.
I look forward to the contributions of you both.
That just proves their point.
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How do you know he's making the decisions? He's had a Chief Executive in place who presumably is paid to make these decisions.
He's always said he's a fan and he's deliberately kept out of the way. Fair enough if people want to have a go at him for not getting involved and being too elusive but I struggle to see how he can also be accused of making terrible decisions at the same time.
As for selling up - he's sunk £200m in to the club which he'd want to see a fair chunk of back. You only have to look at Blackburn and the Blues to see that new foreign owners are not necessarily a good thing. I think our best approach is to put pressure on Randy to spend more money on players.
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Does this mean no one is going to buy the hats I just ordered?
(http://rlv.zcache.com/i_love_randy_hat-p148559182728515232en7ph_210.jpg)
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What should be his way forward and how far is he culpable for our current situation? Keep it constructive, please.
It isn't working. I think the side that nearly got relegated in 2006 would turn today's lot over. We are moving backwards. I haven't seen any leadership from Randy and despite liking him feel that he isn't at the races.
If he's in it for the long-haul then he has to become more involved in the day-to-day goings on at the club and should look to get some football people involved at board level.
If you look a Villa in the Lerner era, it is always the manager who has to front for the club. In fairness, MON was good in that role. However, Houllier both TSM looked out of their deoth in the role of all around Club PR man while Lambert should be able to devote all his energies to developing this quite limited squad.
We just seem to be drifting. A few good, positive moves such as a reasonable cash injection in January, increased visibility and more evidence of their being a strong group of trustees behind the manager of the day might even be enough to give us a bit of new impetus again.
This is all based on him still caring. If his heart isn't in it, he should sell up and let somebody else have a go.
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TBH, RL and PF has been given loads of stick on here since MON walked. Not a day has gone by without Rip calling him a bastard or a c***.
I've said before that it surprises me that Lerner and Faulkner don't get far more stick than they do, especially on here. There isn't anyone who bears more responsibility for the club's disastrous trajectory over the last three seasons than those two.
I've seen some posters whose opinions I generally respect contort themselves in trying to apportion blame to anyone other than Lerner and Faulkner. Purely my own view and all that but at a time when the club's direction is so diabolically bad I would have thought that an established fanzine like H&V should be hammering the ownership with all its might.
Agreed.
I look forward to the contributions of you both.
That just proves their point.
How does it? Please tell me; I'd love to know.,
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You do seem to come out with a smart arse comment to stop any bashing of Randy.
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You do seem to come out with a smart arse comment to stop any bashing of Randy.
Nothing to do with smart or arse. If someone wants a point of view to be expressed, they should express it. Asking for it isn't stopping anything - it's encouraging it.
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Fair enough if people want to have a go at him for not getting involved and being too elusive but I struggle to see how he can also be accused of making terrible decisions at the same time.
You can't have it both ways Ad@m.
As you know, if something went tits up under the Government of Cameron or Blair, they may not be directly responsible, but they have to carry the can.
With great power comes great responsibilty. A great man once said that (Spider Man's Uncle).
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Is Spiderman one or 2 words? Mmmm
Anyhow, it is simple for me. He backed Lambert last summer, if he believes in his manager and wants to help him move the club forward he has to back him this winter with another 20 million or so, which he can afford. He has invested in the past money wise when we have needed him too, and boy we need it now more than ever.
As such, for me it is invest and back Lambert, or face relegation being a real possibility and not being able to get back anything on his investment. He is not as stupid or moronic as people make out I am sure, so I think the investment will be there this winter.
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I think one of his biggest delusions is that our youth set-up, whilst rightly lauded, is somehow the answer. Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of top flight English football knows that if you produce a genuine first team regular everyday 2 or 3 years you're doing well.
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You do seem to come out with a smart arse comment to stop any bashing of Randy.
Nothing to do with smart or arse. If someone wants a point of view to be expressed, they should express it. Asking for it isn't stopping anything - it's encouraging it.
Ok Randy isn't interested any more,he will never get his money back,and has slowly over the past 3 years dragged us closer to the Championship.
By employing a Paul Faulkner who knows fuck all about football,and expecting him to get the club self sufficient and in the top half of the table shows us all we need to know about Randy as a person.
I wouldn't let Randy look after my dog nevermind a football club.
He needs to cut his losses and go before it gets really messy.
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Fair enough if people want to have a go at him for not getting involved and being too elusive but I struggle to see how he can also be accused of making terrible decisions at the same time.
You can't have it both ways Ad@m.
As you know, if something went tits up under the Government of Cameron or Blair, they may not be directly responsible, but they have to carry the can.
With great power comes great responsibilty. A great man once said that (Spider Man's Uncle).
I don't want it both ways - others are berating Randy for not being involved enough whilst simultaneously making terrible decisions. That's trying to have it both ways.
As far as I'm concerned, assuming GH and TSM were appointed by Faulkner rather than Randy he's been a model chairman so far. He's ploughed shit loads of money in to the club and generally kept his gob shut. That's exactly what I want from a chairman.
I put the blame for GH and TSM at Faulkner's door. Those appointments, and giving MON free will to almost bankrupt us chasing Champions League football are the major strategic cockups during the Lerner reign. Everything else done by the Board during the Lerner reign has been pretty good generally.
As for ultimate responsibility being Randy's - whilst you're right, I think Faulkner should be walking the plank first.
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Who appointed Faulkner?
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Who appointed Faulkner?
First prize for stating the bleeding obvious hawkeye.
Isn't it worth changing Faulkner before we hound out the guy who put £200m in to our club?
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I put the blame for GH and TSM at Faulkner's door..
Maybe others can clarify, but my impression was that Lerner (and the General) were very impressed by his demeanour and frendliness after the 5-1 drubbing we inflicted on him, this stayed in their memory when it came time to replace Houllier.
Let's not forget Lerner's cherished letter of recommendation from Siralex.
I'm putting the blame for that firmly at Blandy's door.
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As for selling up - he's sunk £200m in to the club which he'd want to see a fair chunk of back. You only have to look at Blackburn and the Blues to see that new foreign owners are not necessarily a good thing. I think our best approach is to put pressure on Randy to spend more money on players.
I suppose the one good thing about him investing so much in the club is that if he wants to sell, then the buyer would have to be a really serious player in the market.
On the downside, has too much money been invested to make us saleable.
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Is Spiderman one or 2 words? Mmmm
Anyhow, it is simple for me. He backed Lambert last summer, if he believes in his manager and wants to help him move the club forward he has to back him this winter with another 20 million or so, which he can afford. He has invested in the past money wise when we have needed him too, and boy we need it now more than ever.
As such, for me it is invest and back Lambert, or face relegation being a real possibility and not being able to get back anything on his investment. He is not as stupid or moronic as people make out I am sure, so I think the investment will be there this winter.
I really hope you are right. I happen to agree that this will happen, however, if he does not invest and we do go down he will have to go down as one of the worst club owners in history. I mean who could destroy a top 6 team and get them relegated within five years. It couldn't happen to a club like Villa!
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I'd be surprised if anyone was interesting in buying until our premiership status was assured .
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As for selling up - he's sunk £200m in to the club which he'd want to see a fair chunk of back. You only have to look at Blackburn and the Blues to see that new foreign owners are not necessarily a good thing. I think our best approach is to put pressure on Randy to spend more money on players.
I suppose the one good thing about him investing so much in the club is that if he wants to sell, then the buyer would have to be a really serious player in the market.
On the downside, has too much money been invested to make us saleable.
Oh, forgot to say that the only person that has ever made any money out of Villa was Doug. The only person not to put any of his money into the club was Doug. He had his head screwed on, din't he.
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The General and his wife were in the VMF restaurant tonight
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I really hope you are right. I happen to agree that this will happen, however, if he does not invest and we do go down he will have to go down as one of the worst club owners in history. I mean who could destroy a top 6 team and get them relegated within five years. It couldn't happen to a club like Villa!
He bought a club that had just finished 16th. Last season we finished 16th. It's more accurate to say we've neither progressed nor gone backwards despite the hundreds of millions he's invested.
Not sure that makes him the worst club owner ever - he's not even the worst club owner in the last decade.
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Is Spiderman one or 2 words? Mmmm
Anyhow, it is simple for me. He backed Lambert last summer, if he believes in his manager and wants to help him move the club forward he has to back him this winter with another 20 million or so, which he can afford. He has invested in the past money wise when we have needed him too, and boy we need it now more than ever.
As such, for me it is invest and back Lambert, or face relegation being a real possibility and not being able to get back anything on his investment. He is not as stupid or moronic as people make out I am sure, so I think the investment will be there this winter.
I really hope you are right. I happen to agree that this will happen, however, if he does not invest and we do go down he will have to go down as one of the worst club owners in history. I mean who could destroy a top 6 team and get them relegated within five years. It couldn't happen to a club like Villa!
Who could destroy the European Champions and get them relegated within five years. I think that caps the current situation.
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Who appointed Faulkner?
First prize for stating the bleeding obvious hawkeye.
Isn't it worth changing Faulkner before we hound out the guy who put £200m in to our club?
His club.
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Who appointed Faulkner?
First prize for stating the bleeding obvious hawkeye.
Isn't it worth changing Faulkner before we hound out the guy who put £200m in to our club?
i am not for hounding out any one right now. Like you I have no idea to what extent Venky delegates to Faulkner. The best we can hope for is that Venky gives PL a decent budget and PL spends it wisely.
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I was happy when Randy bought the club and have backed him from the time it all started going tits up from the time O'Neill walked out. This evening though Randy is at a crisis point. If he wants to protect his investment he has to back his manager and provide enough funds next month to get us out of this terrible mess we're now in. If he doesn't he is 1) a poor businessman and 2) no longer cares about the club because the team as it stands is going to be relegated. We have a defence that can't defend, an attack that can't score and a midfield that can't protect the defence nor provide chances for the strikers. We've hit rock bottom but amazingly we've not yet been cut adrift. Decisive leadership now can still turn the season round. Failure to take it cannot be an option.
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I look forward to the contributions of you both.
Feel free to use any of my posts, especially the ones about stupid Americans.
That's 280,000,000 of them. Can you narrow it down a bit please?
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I look forward to the contributions of you both.
Feel free to use any of my posts, especially the ones about stupid Americans.
That's 280,000,000 of them. Can you narrow it down a bit please?
But is he right or is he wrong?
Have Lerner's decision's been stupid?
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I was sat next to a Browns fan at an NFL game this week, and his vitriol and sweariness when the topic of Randy Lerner came up made mine and Fletch's rants seem rather timid in comparison. We both agreed that he was rather useless, and had a couple more beers to celebrate his ongoing idiocy.
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I was sat next to a Browns fan at an NFL game this week, and his vitriol and sweariness when the topic of Randy Lerner came up made mine and Fletch's rants seem rather timid in comparison. We both agreed that he was rather useless, and had a couple more beers to celebrate his ongoing idiocy.
He has got off lightly though.
Most Villa supporters won't hear a bad word said against him.
He had very little stick for the ludicrous McCatpiss appointment.
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when the topic of Randy Lerner came up made mine and Fletch's rants seem rather timid in comparison.
I would like to make it crystal clear that the views of Risso's in no way mirror my own, I have never met Risso, and if I did, it always in the presence of a third party.
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As for selling up - he's sunk £200m in to the club which he'd want to see a fair chunk of back. You only have to look at Blackburn and the Blues to see that new foreign owners are not necessarily a good thing. I think our best approach is to put pressure on Randy to spend more money on players.
Look at where we were when he arrived, look at how much he's spent, and look where we are now, six years on.
It isn't just about throwing money at it, it is about the strategic direction of the club, and it's hard to say he's done a good job of it, having pushed us to this point.
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He hasn't run any business,that's part of the problem.
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He hasn't run any business,that's part of the problem.
You're right - he's not a businessman, he's a benefactor. Which is a hell of a lot better than our previous Chairman who was in it for personal profile & gain, the good of the club coming way down his list of priorities.
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I look forward to the contributions of you both.
Feel free to use any of my posts, especially the ones about stupid Americans.
That's 280,000,000 of them. Can you narrow it down a bit please?
But is he right or is he wrong?
Have Lerner's decision's been stupid?
He is of course right. Lerner has made stupid decisions. Starting conflict with O'Neill at the wrong time. Allowing Faulkner to sell Barry, Milner and Young. Appointing Houllier and than McLeish. The correct decision was to appoint Lambert however he messed that up with the drastic change of direction. You can not do this in this League as rivals will eat you up and that is what's happening now.
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He hasn't run any business,that's part of the problem.
You're right - he's not a businessman, he's a benefactor. Which is a hell of a lot better than our previous Chairman who was in it for personal profile & gain, the good of the club coming way down his list of priorities.
how is it better?
How much do we owe him in loans again?
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How the hell can we be in a situation where the football club is run by a bloke who spends the vast majority of time in another country? It's not as if he throws money at a problem like Man City. It's a bit like a school headteacher being allowed to work from home four days a week by his board of Governors.
Randy needs to be doing more than he is or just fuck off. There will be an Aston Villa long after his time, even if it's in a lower league
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In my opinion Randy changed his modus operandii when the decision was taken to sell Milner and not re-invest. The purchase of Darren Bent was the moment he showed he was still serious about the "bright future" and that the way to make money from football is to have a winning team. This next transfer window will tell us how much he still wants Villa to be competitive on the pitch. I still can't forget about that letter that stated the clubs ambitions are to be in an accountancy top 20. Bottom line is Randy wants a return on his investment without investing any more money, and since MON, has been hoping to be successful on the cheap. Hopefully he realises that further investment is needed.
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He hasn't run any business,that's part of the problem.
You're right - he's not a businessman, he's a benefactor. Which is a hell of a lot better than our previous Chairman who was in it for personal profile & gain, the good of the club coming way down his list of priorities.
how is it better?
How much do we owe him in loans again?
It's better because he's putting money in to the club whereas the last chairman was taking money out of the club.
If the club owes Lerner money what does it matter? He can't call it in as the club doesn't have the money. So he chooses not to put any more in - that was how Herbert ran the club.
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The reiiance on academy players to come through and replace seasoned proffessionals was the start of all our problems and still is. Lambert made the comment last week that he knows what he's got and i don't think for one moment he would be playing the likes of Lichaj if he had any other option. The squad is poor and injuries have found us out big time. Who's to blame well Randy is the owner, top dog, and when a company is struggling it's up to the bloke at the top to turn things around, he wasted a lot of money backing losers so the blame really does lie with him, the only real option is to give Lambert whatever funding is required to get players of the right quality to keep us up, anything less would be financial suicide.
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Ok, so some are saying Randy should sell up - easy to say but what would be the numbers for this? I have no real clue how these things happen but presumably there is his purchase price, the value of the 'loans' from the Lerner Trust and the assets owned / future broadcasting rights to be considered? What type of figures are we talking?? 200m+
Kind of makes it more of a remote possibility that Randy will be going anywhere soon?
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An immense amount of damage was done last season.
Under Houllier, we had an awful season, but finished a somewhat flattering 11th. Not disastrous.
What we needed was a forward thinking appointment which would pull the club forwards, treat that season like a blip rather than a sign of things to come, and use the decent players we still had at that point, or at least replace them well.
What they then did was make the worst possible appointment they could possibly have done. I still can't believe they appointed McLeish.
You can talk about how the results aren't much better than they were under McLeish all you want, but the fact is last season did a huge, huge amount of damage to the club and started a juggernaut rolling that we still don't look like stopping.
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Under Houllier, we had an awful season, but finished a somewhat flattering 11th. Not disastrous. .
9th.
Rip Van Pedant.
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Excluding buying the club how much has Randy spent?
Did he give it us or was it a loan?
How much has he taken out of the club?
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Incidentally, re the money he's invested.
There is one argument that he's poured lots of money into the club - and he has - and that makes him a good chairman. It does not. Investing the money wisely and making it work properly for the club is what makes a good chairman. Randy hasn't done that.
I'd also throw in the way they disengaged with us lost them a lot of respect from me. For four years, we had General Krulak on here constantly telling us how they were in it through thick and thin, no worries. They told us not to worry our little heads about the money when we raised concerns.
And what happened the first time thick turned into thin? They disappeared overnight.
The end result was that all that interaction with the fans looked like empty marketing, and that as soon as they stopped getting anything out of it, they were off.
I entirely understand the fact that General Krulak got a new job, but having asked us to reopen his thread, he then disappeared. Not a single message to say he couldn't be here any more. We all get busy, but really, would a two line message have taken that long?
From that point, the disengagement was plain to see.
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Excluding buying the club how much has Randy spent?
Did he give it us or was it a loan?
How much has he taken out of the club?
Loans.
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Under Houllier, we had an awful season, but finished a somewhat flattering 11th. Not disastrous. .
9th.
Rip Van Pedant.
There you go, then, even less disastrous.
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He hasn't run any business,that's part of the problem.
You're right - he's not a businessman, he's a benefactor. Which is a hell of a lot better than our previous Chairman who was in it for personal profile & gain, the good of the club coming way down his list of priorities.
how is it better?
How much do we owe him in loans again?
It's better because he's putting money in to the club whereas the last chairman was taking money out of the club.
If the club owes Lerner money what does it matter? He can't call it in as the club doesn't have the money. So he chooses not to put any more in - that was how Herbert ran the club.
The club is paying the loans back,it's one of the reasons we are having to get the wage bill down.It has nothing to do with FFP.
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An immense amount of damage was done last season.
Under Houllier, we had an awful season, but finished a somewhat flattering 11th. Not disastrous.
What we needed was a forward thinking appointment which would pull the club forwards, treat that season like a blip rather than a sign of things to come, and use the decent players we still had at that point, or at least replace them well.
What they then did was make the worst possible appointment they could possibly have done. I still can't believe they appointed McLeish.
You can talk about how the results aren't much better than they were under McLeish all you want, but the fact is last season did a huge, huge amount of damage to the club and started a juggernaut rolling that we still don't look like stopping.
Yep that was the one that did it, bonkers
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One of the biggest problems, and the reason Lerner still does not get flak, is that a lot of the fanbase see him as some sort of benevolent Ronald McDonald figure.
This was an image put across by The General etc at the time of the takeover and it's an image that couldn't be further from the truth.
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One of the biggest problems, and the reason Lerner still does not get flak, is that a lot of the fanbase see him as some sort of benevolent Ronald McDonald figure.
This was an image put across by The General etc at the time of the takeover and it's an image that couldn't be further from the truth.
Isnt Ronald Mcdonald a clown? seems pretty fair to me.
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We're in the classic catch 22. with Lerner.
Earliest he could sell would be the Summer which doesn't help us right now. Cut backs all round means we'd need to sell to buy in January but our most sellable asset (Darren Bent) is at his lowest sale value since we bought him (we wouldn't get anywhere near our money back) and new players will want higher wages just to come to a relegation haunted team. We also allegedly have a salary cap that by PL standards is very low.
Lerner now has been an unmitigated disaster for 3 years, he couldn't have messed it up more if he'd tried. But i'm afraid we are in such a mess unless he really backs Lambert (and i mean with 30 million in January - which is highly unlikely) we'll probably be going down.
Basically, he's the TSM of Chairmen.
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He's been a disaster. Whatever mitigating circumstances you can use to justify his calamitous reign, it's his hole and he still keeps digging. Ever since pubehead slung his hook he's veered from one disaster to another. Fucked over Houllier for the old guard for the sake of his wallet - where are these players now? - injured, stinking up our team or stinking up other teams. Then he bought in TSM which is up there with anything those clowns at Blackburn have managed but at least the guy realised how shit we were and played to survive. This is like groundhog day but with a manager without any tactical awareness - forget chelsea, we could be breaking all sorts of records if he keeps putting out the same formation and team. The guy has lost the youngsters totally - the confidence is rock bottom true, but he's not even organising them properly. You're not gonna improve confidence if no-ones knows what they're fucking supposed to do.
As i see it Lerner has three choices:
1) Stick with his ridiculouse Ajax of the midlands plan and sack Lambert tomorrow because he's not good enough to carry it out - I'm not sure who is mind, but anything is better than getting pummelled by 5 goals a game as we slide into oblivion
2) Sack Faulkner and drop 20+m in the managers lap, or another manager's lap. fuck off the likes of Dunne, Gabby, Ireland, Nzogbia, gGiven for bargain basement prices because they'll be near enough worthless in the championship anyway and they really aren't going to get better - how many Villa players can you think off who've been shite for 2 or three seasons in a row and then come good? Nope neither can I. Cut our losses,just get something for the wasters or pay up their contracts because we'll be doing it next summer anyway. Then pray that 20m together with the few decent youth players is enough to keep us up.
3) Keep Calm and go again.
I'm guessing Lerner hasn't finished digging yet so 3) looks the best bet
2013 is certainly shaping up to be a classic and no mistake....
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He hasn't run any business,that's part of the problem.
You're right - he's not a businessman, he's a benefactor. Which is a hell of a lot better than our previous Chairman who was in it for personal profile & gain, the good of the club coming way down his list of priorities.
how is it better?
How much do we owe him in loans again?
It's better because he's putting money in to the club whereas the last chairman was taking money out of the club.
If the club owes Lerner money what does it matter? He can't call it in as the club doesn't have the money. So he chooses not to put any more in - that was how Herbert ran the club.
This is the thing that I struggle with. Lerner buys the club from Ellis but borrows money from the club. Who are 'the club'? I thought that was what Lerner had bought so how can he borrow money from it.
Regarding Doug Ellis. We used to see a set of accounts every year. Did anybody expect a Chairman, running a business, to throw millions of pounds of his own money into it? His job was to at least balance the books. The day when everyone needs someone like Abramovich as Chairman (or whatever title he has) is the day to pack up.
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I'm wondering whether we shouldn't just pay up Stephen Irelands contract now after today.
He just strikes me as the kind of bloke you'd pay not to have around in our position. after all, he claimed from the get go that he never wanted to be here.
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In hindsight, Houllier and AMcL were both ludicrous appointments and the combined effects have left lambert, a decent appointment, with an impossible hole to get out of.
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In hindsight, Houllier and AMcL were both ludicrous appointments and the combined effects have left lambert, a decent appointment, with an impossible hole to get out of.
You'd also have to say Lambert has more than helped dig the hole we now find ourselves in
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I'm wondering whether we shouldn't just pay up Stephen Irelands contract now after today.
He just strikes me as the kind of bloke you'd pay not to have around in our position. after all, he claimed from the get go that he never wanted to be here.
When we know that we need experienced players, it is more than a little disappointing that one of our most experienced players (can't be arsed to check this with Wikipedia) is continually playing so poorly.
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He hasn't run any business,that's part of the problem.
You're right - he's not a businessman, he's a benefactor. Which is a hell of a lot better than our previous Chairman who was in it for personal profile & gain, the good of the club coming way down his list of priorities.
how is it better?
How much do we owe him in loans again?
It's better because he's putting money in to the club whereas the last chairman was taking money out of the club.
If the club owes Lerner money what does it matter? He can't call it in as the club doesn't have the money. So he chooses not to put any more in - that was how Herbert ran the club.
This is the thing that I struggle with. Lerner buys the club from Ellis but borrows money from the club. Who are 'the club'? I thought that was what Lerner had bought so how can he borrow money from it.
Regarding Doug Ellis. We used to see a set of accounts every year. Did anybody expect a Chairman, running a business, to throw millions of pounds of his own money into it? His job was to at least balance the books. The day when everyone needs someone like Abramovich as Chairman (or whatever title he has) is the day to pack up.
Hes back
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This is the thing that I struggle with. Lerner buys the club from Ellis but borrows money from the club. Who are 'the club'? I thought that was what Lerner had bought so how can he borrow money from it.
The club, which is owned by Lerner, has been lent money, by Lerner, at a certain rate of interest, to be repaid at a certain date.
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He's been a disaster. Whatever mitigating circumstances you can use to justify his calamitous reign, it's his hole and he still keeps digging. Ever since pubehead slung his hook he's veered from one disaster to another. Fucked over Houllier for the old guard for the sake of his wallet - where are these players now? - injured, stinking up our team or stinking up other teams. Then he bought in TSM which is up there with anything those clowns at Blackburn have managed but at least the guy realised how shit we were and played to survive. This is like groundhog day but with a manager without any tactical awareness - forget chelsea, we could be breaking all sorts of records if he keeps putting out the same formation and team. The guy has lost the youngsters totally - the confidence is rock bottom true, but he's not even organising them properly. You're not gonna improve confidence if no-ones knows what they're fucking supposed to do.
As i see it Lerner has three choices:
1) Stick with his ridiculouse Ajax of the midlands plan and sack Lambert tomorrow because he's not good enough to carry it out - I'm not sure who is mind, but anything is better than getting pummelled by 5 goals a game as we slide into oblivion
2) Sack Faulkner and drop 20+m in the managers lap, or another manager's lap. fuck off the likes of Dunne, Gabby, Ireland, Nzogbia, gGiven for bargain basement prices because they'll be near enough worthless in the championship anyway and they really aren't going to get better - how many Villa players can you think off who've been shite for 2 or three seasons in a row and then come good? Nope neither can I. Cut our losses,just get something for the wasters or pay up their contracts because we'll be doing it next summer anyway. Then pray that 20m together with the few decent youth players is enough to keep us up.
3) Keep Calm and go again.
I'm guessing Lerner hasn't finished digging yet so 3) looks the best bet
2013 is certainly shaping up to be a classic and no mistake....
you are back
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Greg returns = 30 pages by this time tomorrow.
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Greg returns = 30 pages by this time tomorrow.
Probably. Because people actually take his views at face value and fail to realise he's on a huge wind up.
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He hasn't run any business,that's part of the problem.
You're right - he's not a businessman, he's a benefactor. Which is a hell of a lot better than our previous Chairman who was in it for personal profile & gain, the good of the club coming way down his list of priorities.
how is it better?
How much do we owe him in loans again?
It's better because he's putting money in to the club whereas the last chairman was taking money out of the club.
If the club owes Lerner money what does it matter? He can't call it in as the club doesn't have the money. So he chooses not to put any more in - that was how Herbert ran the club.
This is the thing that I struggle with. Lerner buys the club from Ellis but borrows money from the club. Who are 'the club'? I thought that was what Lerner had bought so how can he borrow money from it.
Regarding Doug Ellis. We used to see a set of accounts every year. Did anybody expect a Chairman, running a business, to throw millions of pounds of his own money into it? His job was to at least balance the books. The day when everyone needs someone like Abramovich as Chairman (or whatever title he has) is the day to pack up.
Hes back
I've never gone away.
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Greg returns = 30 pages by this time tomorrow.
Probably. Because people actually take his views at face value and fail to realise he's on a huge wind up.
Nothing wrong with his first post back.
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This is the thing that I struggle with. Lerner buys the club from Ellis but borrows money from the club. Who are 'the club'? I thought that was what Lerner had bought so how can he borrow money from it.
The club, which is owned by Lerner, has been lent money, by Lerner, at a certain rate of interest, to be repaid at a certain date.
A sizeable chunk has been put into the club by Lerner's Trust in the form of shares rather than loans, and at least one year the loans were interest free. All the same the biggest chunk is attracting interest at those oh-so-not-rigged LIBOR rates plus 1% or 1.5% plus management fees. I've posted links to these in the past but can barely be arsed to type let alone find them again :-)
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Like a grizzly old cowboy, he saunters into town looking for another turn of the wheel, he hears they are playin his tune down at the last chance saloon.
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There's little doubt that there's an air of amateurishness in the way the club is run.
One example is appointment of managers. Alex McLeish was appointed because of his likeableness, perhaps even because Alex Ferguson recommended him. And while I supported the appointment of Lambert, I remember one of the (main) reasons for appointing him was that he was the man the fans wanted. It seems as if the actual capability of doing a good job hardly comes into the equation.
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It's rapidly becoming a shambles, if it isn't already. I'm not sure anyone at the club has a plan of any kind and the end result is what we have now. All aboard the Aston Titanic.
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Lerner out. That is all.
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So much ignorance on this page that it is hard to know where to begin, but if you really think that the board chose Lambert "because it is what the fans wanted," then you are past reasoning with.
But I agree that there is no excuse for the AM appt. Before that, when MON left us deep in it, I thought the Houllier appt had potential, esp considering all the available options at the time. He might have been on the right track, but the heart issues means we will never know for certain.
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So Mr Pelty when has Mr Lerner ever been successful?
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I was happy when Randy bought the club and have backed him from the time it all started going tits up from the time O'Neill walked out. This evening though Randy is at a crisis point. If he wants to protect his investment he has to back his manager and provide enough funds next month to get us out of this terrible mess we're now in. If he doesn't he is 1) a poor businessman and 2) no longer cares about the club because the team as it stands is going to be relegated. We have a defence that can't defend, an attack that can't score and a midfield that can't protect the defence nor provide chances for the strikers. We've hit rock bottom but amazingly we've not yet been cut adrift. Decisive leadership now can still turn the season round. Failure to take it cannot be an option.
Excellent post Sir.
That's exactly how I see it. This transfer window is make or break for Villa. C'mon Randy show some leadership.
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well i have a lot of sympathy with you pelty but at the end of the day, however uncrap you think randy's been, its pretty obvious he's pissed loads of money up the wall for no return. i'd suggest if he wants to continue hands off he gets in football people instead of the likes of faulkner who lets face it should be running an Aldi supermarket somewhere. His wallet at least will feel better for it,.
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So much ignorance on this page that it is hard to know where to begin, but if you really think that the board chose Lambert "because it is what the fans wanted," then you are past reasoning with.
But I agree that there is no excuse for the AM appt. Before that, when MON left us deep in it, I thought the Houllier appt had potential, esp considering all the available options at the time. He might have been on the right track, but the heart issues means we will never know for certain.
Are you ever going to post on here without sounding arrogant?
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So much ignorance on this page that it is hard to know where to begin, but if you really think that the board chose Lambert "because it is what the fans wanted," then you are past reasoning with.
But I agree that there is no excuse for the AM appt. Before that, when MON left us deep in it, I thought the Houllier appt had potential, esp considering all the available options at the time. He might have been on the right track, but the heart issues means we will never know for certain.
15 goals in 3 games, after the shit we've persevered with over the last 2 years, and you dare to question the attitude of the fans?
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This is what you posted on Oct 21st.
You seem to forget that MON left five days before the season and managers of any quality were not available. Houllier had a pedigree, at least, which was more than could be said for most of the managers queueing up for the job. Now, RL blew it with AM, no doubt...
It's almost word for word.
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I feel for Lambert, I did for TSM and GH. Something has gone horribly wrong at Villa. Did it start with giving MON too much free reign and now the managers since have no control at all?
I don't think the best manager in the world is going to dig us out of this pit unless he is helped financially. I don't mean just throwing money at it willy nilly but having faith in the manager picked to do his job and let him try and do what he feels he can do to compete as Premier League Football Club. Otherwise Lambert is going to be nurturing youngsters in the lower leagues.
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We've gone from manager who picks the same eleven every week and pays them a fortune to a manager who has serious health problems to a manager that not one Villa fan wanted to a manager who just wants to play kids. This is where a football wise board member becomes useful, he could take the manager aside and tell him that playing juniors against seniors will ruin his reputation. Well we finally have set records under Randys reign, not ones we wanted though.
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Think we're in dire need of a better infrastructure at the club. As said, a board with some actual footballing knowledge would help. Perhaps a DOF too. It would seem particularly useful now, with an inexperienced manager. A lot of what Lambert is trying to do, Houllier also tried. He'd be far more suited to the DOF role, so maybe we could tempt him back, or someone similar, who knows the top league(s) inside out.
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So much ignorance on this page that it is hard to know where to begin, but if you really think that the board chose Lambert "because it is what the fans wanted," then you are past reasoning with.
But I agree that there is no excuse for the AM appt. Before that, when MON left us deep in it, I thought the Houllier appt had potential, esp considering all the available options at the time. He might have been on the right track, but the heart issues means we will never know for certain.
I don't think you could have picked a worse time to start posting again. Fair play and everything, but I tell you this; this is the worst Villa side I've ever seen, and the reason why lays at Randy's door. No excuses, the team needs investment.
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So much ignorance on this page that it is hard to know where to begin, but if you really think that the board chose Lambert "because it is what the fans wanted," then you are past reasoning with.
But I agree that there is no excuse for the AM appt. Before that, when MON left us deep in it, I thought the Houllier appt had potential, esp considering all the available options at the time. He might have been on the right track, but the heart issues means we will never know for certain.
One question I'd like answering pelty - is randy still as committed to the club and interested as he was 3 years ago?
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Even rentagob joey Barton has tweeted-
@Joey7Barton: Aston Villa are in big trouble. Such a young side. Like a youth team playing in the Premier League. Can't blame Lambert in my eyes
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So much ignorance on this page that it is hard to know where to begin, but if you really think that the board chose Lambert "because it is what the fans wanted," then you are past reasoning with.
Thanks for those words of wisdom.
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Lerner needs to sell up he just isn't interested anymore, some of the decisions he has made have been disastrous. If Ellis had made some of the decisions he has done the last few years he would have got no end of shit for it, Lerner has got off lightly in my opinion.
TBH, RL and PF has been given loads of stick on here since MON walked. Not a day has gone by without Rip calling him a bastard or a c***.
Can't remember calling either a bastard or a c.unt.
Hopelessly incompotent and moronic, yes.
Who cares, i'm in a minority anyway.
Equal Rights for Men Who Look Like Minty off Eastenders.
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It makes little difference what Lerner does or does not know about football, or whether he does or does not come to the games. I really do not know if Faulkner and the others in charge of day to day stuff are or are not really any good at their jobs. My guess is they are probably fairly competent, but look less so if the company they work for is not having major capital investment and look better if things are put in their lap to enable them to do a job.
In the end modern football is all down to money, and Lerner does not have enough of it for us to even have a hope that one day we may compete at the very top level again. If and when he sells. the types of ownership you may have is as follows:-
1) Abramovich/Mansour type. Annual foreign coach change, high ticket prices, some trophies. Yes you will see success on the pitch but it will feel a bit less homely and a bit less like your club. I am not saying we should not take it if it was offered but as long as we understand the pay off.
2) Lerner/Liverpool type. Medium level foreign finance. You are never going to shake up the world and will at best bowl along off the pace until as some stage it all goes pear shaped and gets on top of you.
3) Venkeys/Carson Yeung type. Foreign chancers who promise the world and completely mess you up. The very thought of this almost makes you want us to stay with Lerner. Lets hope if Lerner sells he tries to let it go to someone with a measure of responsibility. I know things have gone wrong under Lerner but Doug was a least careful not to let us go to crooks/nutters.
4)Everton/Newcastle type. Home based finance. You will never ever compete at the top. By being reasonably frugal some seasons you may finish top half, other times you will have a relegation struggle. The home based finance model for clubs the size of Villa/Newcastle/Everton in the Premier is becoming more and more difficult season on season as the gap widens further.
Do not talk about how Swansea, Norwich, Stoke etc seem to be doing so much better than us. They have replaced the Charltons, Portsmouths, Boltons. There will always be a handful of small sized clubs rise and have their few years in the Premier before again falling back.
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We might not like Deadly, but he had more fight and passion in him and love Aston Villa than Randy Lerner, Randy Lerner have to keep investing and hire a football man to run the club and get 2 players on director board. Also get someone to interact with fans like the General before he left for new job. Problem we need someone like Man City / Chelsea owner who is willing to invest and be a financial muscle. But with the global recession there probably be fewer super rich people who willing to splash if there is no tomorrow.
I think if we had appointed someone modern and good instead of Martin O'Neill we would already play in champions league. I believe we had lost heart when Man City arrive and buy Barry & Milner.
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Even rentagob joey Barton has tweeted-
@Joey7Barton: Aston Villa are in big trouble. Such a young side. Like a youth team playing in the Premier League. Can't blame Lambert in my eyes
Thanks Joey. But could you at least put your analysis of what has gone wrong at Aston Villa within a Nietzschean philosophical framework you twat.
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We might not like Deadly, but he had more fight and passion in him and love Aston Villa than Randy Lerner, Randy Lerner have to keep investing and hire a football man to run the club and get 2 players on director board. Also get someone to interact with fans like the General before he left for new job. Problem we need someone like Man City / Chelsea owner who is willing to invest and be a financial muscle. But with the global recession there probably be fewer super rich people who willing to splash if there is no tomorrow.
I think if we had appointed someone modern and good instead of Martin O'Neill we would already play in champions league. I believe we had lost heart when Man City arrive and buy Barry & Milner.
It's bad enough watching us get torn to shreds without people getting misty eyed for Doug, ffs.
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What's the worst that can happen? Next season we could relive the glory days of beating Bournemouth at a packed VP.
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The very first game my dad took me to..... Superb
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So much ignorance on this page that it is hard to know where to begin, but if you really think that the board chose Lambert "because it is what the fans wanted," then you are past reasoning with.
But I agree that there is no excuse for the AM appt. Before that, when MON left us deep in it, I thought the Houllier appt had potential, esp considering all the available options at the time. He might have been on the right track, but the heart issues means we will never know for certain.
All this from a man in America who probably doesn't even know where Villa Park is.
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This is more complicated than I thought, obviously we can't compete with The oil/Russian money, but we ain't competing with anybody else either. 2012 saw us produce the worst results of all the teams in the Premier League.
Wigan, West Brom, Norwich, etc.haven't had anything like the money spent on their teams so how has it got to this stage ? The common denominator is Lerner, and he makes it harder to work out the problems because he has a lower profile than Lord Lucan and rivals mime artists for the spoken word.Is he interested ? God knows ! Was he at the match yesterday ? Does he care ?
I always felt it was like living under a dictator under Doug, but at least he spoke to us and knew football, but I hated him.
I left the game yesterday thinking we just have to hope Lambert can turn this around, but I'm not confident and I wouldn't put money on it...
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I would just like to hear what Randy's intentions are and what policy he is looking to introduce.
We all hate interfering owners that think they can pick a football team but on the other hand it would be nice to have some feedback from the horses mouth.
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What's the worst that can happen? Next season we could relive the glory days of beating Bournemouth at a packed VP.
We will have to increase the capacity by almost 6,000.
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So much ignorance on this page that it is hard to know where to begin, but if you really think that the board chose Lambert "because it is what the fans wanted," then you are past reasoning with.
But I agree that there is no excuse for the AM appt. Before that, when MON left us deep in it, I thought the Houllier appt had potential, esp considering all the available options at the time. He might have been on the right track, but the heart issues means we will never know for certain.
All this from a man in America who probably doesn't even know where Villa Park is.
Randy?
Pelty?
Or both?
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So much ignorance on this page that it is hard to know where to begin, but if you really think that the board chose Lambert "because it is what the fans wanted," then you are past reasoning with.
But I agree that there is no excuse for the AM appt. Before that, when MON left us deep in it, I thought the Houllier appt had potential, esp considering all the available options at the time. He might have been on the right track, but the heart issues means we will never know for certain.
How's the old man doing? That school of his still believing that "proud history, bright future" bullshit? Or have they got rid of all of their best teachers and brought in some 20 year old trainees that can hardly read?
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Randy bought a classic sports car. The previous owner kept it in good order & when Randy bought it a 3 year warranty was put on the car.
When that warranty ran out 3 years on, the expensive original parts were sold off, some were replaced with cheap copies but not all.
The classic car now sits on his driveway under a tarpaulin, an embarrassing rusting hulk, not worth anywhere near what he paid for it.
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So much ignorance on this page that it is hard to know where to begin, but if you really think that the board chose Lambert "because it is what the fans wanted," then you are past reasoning with.
But I agree that there is no excuse for the AM appt. Before that, when MON left us deep in it, I thought the Houllier appt had potential, esp considering all the available options at the time. He might have been on the right track, but the heart issues means we will never know for certain.
Well that's told us....
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Randy bought a classic sports car. The previous owner kept it in good order & when Randy bought it a 3 year warranty was put on the car.
When that warranty ran out 3 years on, the expensive original parts were sold off, some were replaced with cheap copies but not all.
The classic car now sits on his driveway under a tarpaulin, an embarrassing rusting hulk, not worth anywhere near what he paid for it.
bang on
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Still blaming MON oh dear.
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Lerner should go for broke and hand Lambert at least £50M. He'll lose probably twice that much if we get relegated - particularly with the huge increase in Sky/BT money from 2013-16 starting next season. He should splash it on 5 players to try and arrest this tailspin to the Championship.
It would still leave him with about £950M to survive on - hard times I know...
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Lerner should go for broke and hand Lambert at least £50M. He'll lose probably twice that much if we get relegated - particularly with the huge increase in Sky/BT money from 2013-16 starting next season. He should splash it on 5 players to try and arrest this tailspin to the Championship.
It would still leave him with about £950M to survive on - hard times I know...
This.
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Randy bought a classic sports car. The previous owner kept it in good order & when Randy bought it a 3 year warranty was put on the car.
When that warranty ran out 3 years on, the expensive original parts were sold off, some were replaced with cheap copies but not all.
The classic car now sits on his driveway under a tarpaulin, an embarrassing rusting hulk, not worth anywhere near what he paid for it.
bang on
Sorry, but this is nowhere near bang on. The classic car that Randy bought was falling to pieces and had to be heavily invested in to keep it on the road. It was only when he'd spent what he thought was too much money on it that he lost interest and left it out on the drive to rot.
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when MON left us deep in it
I'm still a bit confused about the Mon episode. Was he sacked or did he resign? And if the latter did he give any reasons for doing so?
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So we're all agreed then. The classic car is now rotting and has been left out in the pissing rain for two long.
Radical surgery needed in January.
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when MON left us deep in it
I'm still a bit confused about the Mon episode. Was he sacked or did he resign? And if the latter did he give any reasons for doing so?
The horrible thing is that the odious little man is a whole lot richer for it.
Sorry for harping on about O'Neill but The General's son brought it up again.
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You have to say there are some short memories on here.
Three years ago it was almost unanimous that Randy was the best chairman any club could possibly hope for. It wasn't just Villa fans saying it, fans of other clubs like Man U, Liverpool, etc were saying it too.
Go back to HDE days and there were annual protests against him and he was virtually universally hated.
Present day and to some posters Randy's now an unmitigated disaster and they long for the days Herbert was in charge. Talk about changing history.
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Incidentally, re the money he's invested.
There is one argument that he's poured lots of money into the club - and he has - and that makes him a good chairman. It does not. Investing the money wisely and making it work properly for the club is what makes a good chairman. Randy hasn't done that.
I'd also throw in the way they disengaged with us lost them a lot of respect from me. For four years, we had General Krulak on here constantly telling us how they were in it through thick and thin, no worries. They told us not to worry our little heads about the money when we raised concerns.
And what happened the first time thick turned into thin? They disappeared overnight.
The end result was that all that interaction with the fans looked like empty marketing, and that as soon as they stopped getting anything out of it, they were off.
I entirely understand the fact that General Krulak got a new job, but having asked us to reopen his thread, he then disappeared. Not a single message to say he couldn't be here any more. We all get busy, but really, would a two line message have taken that long?
From that point, the disengagement was plain to see.
Spot On - as always!
One further point re. the comments about his 'investment' vs. HDE taking money out of the club.
One way or another Lerner has spent between £200-£250m on avfc. Despite his gross mismanagement he's likely to get the bulk of that back should he sell.
HDE made his gains in the main by selling to Lerner, not from the coffers of the club. Of course he took a decent salary, but so does Faulkner and no doubt a few more of lLerner's team. Ellis had a myriad of faults and in his dotage was as out of touch as Lerner, but at least he a had a semblance of business and football chairmanship acumen.
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Just fuck off with this Doug shit, whatever Lerner's faults he's got a long way to go before he ever stoops to Ellis levels.
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Just fuck off with this Doug shit, whatever Lerner's faults he's got a long way to go before he ever stoops to Ellis levels.
Care to elaborate?
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HDE made his gains in the main by selling to Lerner, not from the coffers of the club. Of course he took a decent salary, but so does Faulkner and no doubt a few more of lLerner's team.
Are you on a windup?
Ellis was the first football club chairman to pay himself a salary - taking money out of a club in this way was his idea. I haven't got the numbers to hand but wasn't he paying himself a couple of million a year by the end?
Also, he made millions when he floated the club, sold a load of his shares for £12 (I think) to fans before those shares plummeted in value to less than a tenth of that during his chairmanship. The fans lost all that money while Ellis became a multi-millionaire off it.
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You have to say there are some short memories on here.
Three years ago it was almost unanimous that Randy was the best chairman any club could possibly hope for. It wasn't just Villa fans saying it, fans of other clubs like Man U, Liverpool, etc were saying it too.
Go back to HDE days and there were annual protests against him and he was virtually universally hated.
Present day and to some posters Randy's now an unmitigated disaster and they long for the days Herbert was in charge. Talk about changing history.
Things change. So what?
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You have to say there are some short memories on here.
Three years ago it was almost unanimous that Randy was the best chairman any club could possibly hope for. It wasn't just Villa fans saying it, fans of other clubs like Man U, Liverpool, etc were saying it too.
Go back to HDE days and there were annual protests against him and he was virtually universally hated.
Present day and to some posters Randy's now an unmitigated disaster and they long for the days Herbert was in charge. Talk about changing history.
Things change. So what?
This is now , 3 years ago we were challenging the top 4 , now we are once again battling relegation , we must look at the here and now .
Randy did a decent job in his first 3 years , since then he not been doing a decent job.
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You have to say there are some short memories on here.
Three years ago it was almost unanimous that Randy was the best chairman any club could possibly hope for. It wasn't just Villa fans saying it, fans of other clubs like Man U, Liverpool, etc were saying it too.
Go back to HDE days and there were annual protests against him and he was virtually universally hated.
Present day and to some posters Randy's now an unmitigated disaster and they long for the days Herbert was in charge. Talk about changing history.
there is one thing that really pisses me off and that there are a lot of folk who change their mind and opinions with a change of the wind. Their memories get distorted and will forget what they stood for andBelieved only a few weeks before. Every one has the option to change their mind but for some they do not have any courage to believe their convictions. this if not just about this post but can be placed against many of the posts on here.
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HDE made his gains in the main by selling to Lerner, not from the coffers of the club. Of course he took a decent salary, but so does Faulkner and no doubt a few more of lLerner's team.
Are you on a windup?
Ellis was the first football club chairman to pay himself a salary - taking money out of a club in this way was his idea. I haven't got the numbers to hand but wasn't he paying himself a couple of million a year by the end?
Also, he made millions when he floated the club, sold a load of his shares for £12 (I think) to fans before those shares plummeted in value to less than a tenth of that during his chairmanship. The fans lost all that money while Ellis became a multi-millionaire off it.
Dont't know about his final salary, but I doubt it was that much different from what the current management team are paid.
As for the shares. All existing shareholders got the same deal/opportunity: convert to the new shares at the rate you mention and then hold, sell or buy more as you please. Such is modern life that investors made losses - nobody forced fans to be investors.
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You have to say there are some short memories on here.
Three years ago it was almost unanimous that Randy was the best chairman any club could possibly hope for. It wasn't just Villa fans saying it, fans of other clubs like Man U, Liverpool, etc were saying it too.
Go back to HDE days and there were annual protests against him and he was virtually universally hated.
Present day and to some posters Randy's now an unmitigated disaster and they long for the days Herbert was in charge. Talk about changing history.
there is one thing that really pisses me off and that there are a lot of folk who change their mind and opinions with a change of the wind. Their memories get distorted and will forget what they stood for andBelieved only a few weeks before. Every one has the option to change their mind but for some they do not have any courage to believe their convictions. this if not just about this post but can be placed against many of the posts on here.
I think people had every right to be happy and optimistic after the Liverpool win, however the last week has been horrendous with the worst result in our history followed by 2 home thrashings, it's natural people will reassess their opinion after such results.
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Just fuck off with this Doug shit, whatever Lerner's faults he's got a long way to go before he ever stoops to Ellis levels.
Care to elaborate?
Are you new to supporting us?
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Just fuck off with this Doug shit, whatever Lerner's faults he's got a long way to go before he ever stoops to Ellis levels.
Care to elaborate?
Are you new to supporting us?
Relatively - I've only had my first season ticket in 1969 and so can only comment on three or foir chairmen. You?
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HDE made his gains in the main by selling to Lerner, not from the coffers of the club. Of course he took a decent salary, but so does Faulkner and no doubt a few more of lLerner's team.
Are you on a windup?
Ellis was the first football club chairman to pay himself a salary - taking money out of a club in this way was his idea. I haven't got the numbers to hand but wasn't he paying himself a couple of million a year by the end?
Also, he made millions when he floated the club, sold a load of his shares for £12 (I think) to fans before those shares plummeted in value to less than a tenth of that during his chairmanship. The fans lost all that money while Ellis became a multi-millionaire off it.
Dont't know about his final salary, but I doubt it was that much different from what the current management team are paid.
As for the shares. All existing shareholders got the same deal/opportunity: convert to the new shares at the rate you mention and then hold, sell or buy more as you please. Such is modern life that investors made losses - nobody forced fans to be investors.
Unreal.
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HDE made his gains in the main by selling to Lerner, not from the coffers of the club. Of course he took a decent salary, but so does Faulkner and no doubt a few more of lLerner's team.
Are you on a windup?
Ellis was the first football club chairman to pay himself a salary - taking money out of a club in this way was his idea. I haven't got the numbers to hand but wasn't he paying himself a couple of million a year by the end?
Also, he made millions when he floated the club, sold a load of his shares for £12 (I think) to fans before those shares plummeted in value to less than a tenth of that during his chairmanship. The fans lost all that money while Ellis became a multi-millionaire off it.
Dont't know about his final salary, but I doubt it was that much different from what the current management team are paid.
As for the shares. All existing shareholders got the same deal/opportunity: convert to the new shares at the rate you mention and then hold, sell or buy more as you please. Such is modern life that investors made losses - nobody forced fans to be investors.
Unreal.
In what way?
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You have to say there are some short memories on here.
Three years ago it was almost unanimous that Randy was the best chairman any club could possibly hope for. It wasn't just Villa fans saying it, fans of other clubs like Man U, Liverpool, etc were saying it too.
Go back to HDE days and there were annual protests against him and he was virtually universally hated.
Present day and to some posters Randy's now an unmitigated disaster and they long for the days Herbert was in charge. Talk about changing history.
Things change. So what?
This is now , 3 years ago we were challenging the top 4 , now we are once again battling relegation , we must look at the here and now .
Randy did a decent job in his first 3 years , since then he not been doing a decent job.
No, Randy didn't do a decent job - we thought he was but he gave MON all the money and let him loose buying whoever (from the British Isles) he wanted. Then he realised MON had spunked it on high wages & average players etc. If he had any business brain he would have stopped it or taken more control earlier on. We may not have found ourselves in this position now, fighting relegation.
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You have to say there are some short memories on here.
Three years ago it was almost unanimous that Randy was the best chairman any club could possibly hope for. It wasn't just Villa fans saying it, fans of other clubs like Man U, Liverpool, etc were saying it too.
Go back to HDE days and there were annual protests against him and he was virtually universally hated.
Present day and to some posters Randy's now an unmitigated disaster and they long for the days Herbert was in charge. Talk about changing history.
Things change. So what?
This is now , 3 years ago we were challenging the top 4 , now we are once again battling relegation , we must look at the here and now .
Randy did a decent job in his first 3 years , since then he not been doing a decent job.
And three years before that we were battling relegation; and five years before that we were battling relegation; and three years before that we were battling relegation; etc, etc.
Yes, Randy isn't perfect, but neither is he the disaster that some are now making him out to be, just because we're struggling. There are many more direct reasons for our troubles (like overpaid players who don't give a shit, poor managers over the past two years, an apparently crap chief exec who's agreed some of these contracts with players and managers, etc) than Randy.
And for those three years you say Randy did a good job you're only basing that on the fact he put £200m in to the club and kept out of the limelight. Well what's changed now? He's not putting as much money in which is fairly understandable given money doesn't grow on trees and is still staying out of the limelight.
If you want an Ambramovich or a Mansour then good luck to you - for one, they're not exactly easy to find, and for two, it'll be a very different place at VP. Yes we'd be challenging for trophies but we wouldn't necessarily win them, we'd be changing managers every year or so, ticket prices will sky rocket, the place will be full of glory hunters, going to games will get boring, etc etc.
Randy is such a better chairman than Ellis I'm astounded we actually have this thread.
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Just fuck off with this Doug shit, whatever Lerner's faults he's got a long way to go before he ever stoops to Ellis levels.
Care to elaborate?
Are you new to supporting us?
Relatively - I've only had my first season ticket in 1969 and so can only comment on two chairmen. You?
So you've kept a flame for Doug mark 1 for all these years? That's quite touching.
I only remember Doug mark 2, and my first season down there was 86-87, the culmination of his exercise in cost-cutting and purging the club of those whose success would have embarrassed him.
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You have to say there are some short memories on here.
Three years ago it was almost unanimous that Randy was the best chairman any club could possibly hope for. It wasn't just Villa fans saying it, fans of other clubs like Man U, Liverpool, etc were saying it too.
Go back to HDE days and there were annual protests against him and he was virtually universally hated.
Present day and to some posters Randy's now an unmitigated disaster and they long for the days Herbert was in charge. Talk about changing history.
Things change. So what?
This is now , 3 years ago we were challenging the top 4 , now we are once again battling relegation , we must look at the here and now .
Randy did a decent job in his first 3 years , since then he not been doing a decent job.
No, Randy didn't do a decent job - we thought he was but he gave MON all the money and let him loose buying whoever (from the British Isles) he wanted. Then he realised MON had spunked it on high wages & average players etc. If he had any business brain he would have stopped it or taken more control earlier on. We may not have found ourselves in this position now, fighting relegation.
We were challenging for a top 4 place in those 3 years and bought in some quality players , along with 2 trips to Wembley- the owner backed his manager and unfortunately mon wasted a lot of money on some average overpaid players.
Randys mistakes since mon left have mainly been choice of managers and the reeling in of spending which has seen quality players going and being replaced with cheaper options.
I was not unhappy with his first 3 years as I think he gave it a real go to try and achieve a top 4 place , since then ambition has waned.
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I have supported Villa since pre Doug and will say that over his whole tenure he did more good than bad , that is my opinion and I know there are plenty who would disagree.
The important point is that money has changed football at the top level so much that comparisions between Doug and Randy are now irrelevant.
If a club the size of Villa sank back to the depths it did in 1968, it would simply be impossible for a local businessman to come in and haul the club back into the very upper reaches. Yes I know he wasnt here when we won the League and European Cup and I know we had a relegation, but we were also amongst the top four (and top two) at times under him. It is now all about money, lots and lots of money. So if your not a big city club with billions being pumped in. whoever you are you can just forget it.
The days of locally based businessmen running top clubs is gone forever. It can never ever be done again, in the same way a Clough with Derby/Forest or Ramsey with Ipswich can ever take a smaller club to the top.
Yeh maybe the Villa are shit right now but at other times we wont be quite as shit. Blame owners, managers, executives all you like but I will never feel the Villa are as shit as I think modern money football is. We, along with about 20 other clubs have been cut adrift from those rich rich bastards at the top. Until the Premier came in there was always hope that you could rise to be top dogs in the country if only for a season or two every few decades. That has all gone forever.
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I have supported Villa since pre Doug and will say that over his whole tenure he did more good than bad , that is my opinion and I know there are plenty who would disagree.
The important point is that money has changed football at the top level so much that comparisions between Doug and Randy are now irrelevant.
If a club the size of Villa sank back to the depths it did in 1968, it would simply be impossible for a local businessman to come in and haul the club back into the very upper reaches. Yes I know he wasnt here when we won the League and European Cup and I know we had a relegation, but we also amongst the top four (and top two) at times under him. It is now all about money, lots and lots of money. So if your not a big city club with billions being pumped in. whoever you are you can just forget it.
The days of locally based businessmen running top clubs is gone forever. It can never ever be done again, in the same way a Clough with Derby/Forest or Ramsey with Ipswich can ever take a smaller club to the top.
Yeh maybe the Villa are shit right now but at other times we wont be quite as shit. Blame owners, managers, executives all you like but I will never feel the Villa are as shit as I think modern money football is. We, along with about 20 other clubs have been cut adrift from those rich rich bastards at the top. Until the Premier came in there was always hope that you could rise to be top dogs in the country if only for a season or two every few decades. That has all gone forever.
Very good post.
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Re: Doug. God knows he had his faults, but ingrained in him was the murkier ways in which the football business works and the fact that everyone within the game would take his call. I'd be resonably confident that over the duration of his tenure that did us more good than harm. I can't say the same for the present incumbents.
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@adam
I don't think anyone on here is 'keeping a flame' for Ellis.
For my part I was trying to point out that the myth of Lerner putting money into the club vs. Ellis taking it out is very simplistic in both the context of modern football and business in general.
i have been a mild critic of Lerner almost from day one and have been derided on here many times for being so. My main points have always been that football is a business, admittedly a rather specialised one, and that Lerner is not a businessman or indeed a football man - which is ok if you get the right people into to help you. Unfortunately he has failed to do this and so we end up in the current mess.
I don't we should have any sympathy for Lerner if his football toy has cost him a few bob. He hasn't given his money to us the fans. We don't owe him anything.
I do believe however, that as custodian of this great club, Lerner owes the fans a commitment whether it be financial or otherwise to be able to compete inthe premier league. He has failed to do this for some time - let's hope things change soon.
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The reasons for our current predicament are many and I don't think you can lay the blame at any one person's door. Yes at the end of the day the Chairman has to take ultimate responsibility, he hires the Chief Executive, and with advice chooses the manager, he also determines the finances and defines the overall structure of the club, but I think he is far from being a bad owner. He has invested heavily in this club, even post MoN, and has backed Houllier, McLeish and Lambert with not inconsiderable amounts of money in the transfer market over the last 3 years. We are still one of the biggest spenders on players over the last few years so I think this not investing in the club or the team myth should be put to bed.
MoN was manager when he took over, he invested heavily in him, and despite all of MoNs faults in his style of play, choice of players and squad usage, he got us within a hairs breadth of breaking into the holy grail of the top four and getting cup success. In retrospect it looks like it was a boom or bust approach, and MoN unfortunately left us bust when he left, with the timing of his departure but more importantly with very shaky structural foundations and the number of average premiership players with long contracts and high wages.
Personally I don't think Houllier was a bad appointment, apart from the verbal gaffs he made, which IMO unduly aroused the ire of some overly precious supporters, I think he was trying to build a good footballing side and trying to turn around a very difficult situation, coming in when the season had already started. The illness wasn't good obviously, but even after his illness I think had we stayed with him, we would have done well. Even McAllister would have been a good option to keep on, he'd strung a good set of results together against some good teams at the end of the season to see us safe and would have provided the necessary continuity into the next season.
The big gaff was McLeish, it was a vastly unpopular decision which was never going to work because of his history, but IMO it was the wrong decision primarily because it lacked continuity regarding the style of football and the direction we wanted to go. We then had a whole new set of McLeish signings to add to the MoN core of the team and the Houllier signings and were again veering back towards an old school footballing style rather than the progressive style of football we were trying to develop under Houllier.
I think in the summer most people were in agreement that Lambert was a good choice as manager, young, ambitious and successful (albeit outside of the premiership) and his vision of building a good progressive footballing side from young and hungry players fitted the clubs vision that we'd originally had with Houllier. He was backed with money in the summer, and by all accounts could have spent more if he'd wanted. Whilst the club have stressed they want to go with a youth type policy, Lambert made his own choices of transfers (apart from Holman) and has made his own choices regarding his treatment of the existing senior core of the team when he came in. Lambert was yet another change in direction of managerial style but he has made his decisions on transfers, training, football style and tactics and squad choice. He has to take responsibility for those and the fact that given what he has to had to play with, there is no excuse for performing as badly as we have many times this season.
All in all I don't think Randy has been, or is, a bad owner, the McLeish choice was baffling and pivotal in our current predicament because of the volte face it had on the teams philosophy and direction, but the ethos and investment have been there and I don't believe for one minute he has lost interest.
I also want to address the often cited argument that we are where we are because we sold all of our best players and replaced them with lesser players. Who are all of the amazing players we have 'got rid of'? To my mind Young, Milner and Downing are the only ones most of us would say we didn't really want sold, even then some people wanted rid, and it seems all 3 wanted to leave. We have brought some good players in since, we've also brought some cack players in, and on big money. The managers have to stand by their signings at the end of the day.
So who's fault is all this? Well IMO no one person's, the chairman yes, the CEO, most definitely yes, MoN most definitely yes, subsequent managers, yes, and of course many of the players. The prime reason for me historically that explains where we are is the lack of continuity and the failure of the so called '5 year plan', ultimately as I started with that comes down to the owner and more specifically the CEO, who I think has to go at the end of the season.
Lambert however has to stand up and take responsibility as the current manager of the team and for trying to change things to quickly, if we survive this season we will be fine next season and things will be promising, if not, well I fear we will be buggered. Let's just hope then that significant investment comes in January and that it is spent wisely and we get the players in needed to secure our future.
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HDE made his gains in the main by selling to Lerner, not from the coffers of the club. Of course he took a decent salary, but so does Faulkner and no doubt a few more of lLerner's team.
Are you on a windup?
Ellis was the first football club chairman to pay himself a salary - taking money out of a club in this way was his idea. I haven't got the numbers to hand but wasn't he paying himself a couple of million a year by the end?
Also, he made millions when he floated the club, sold a load of his shares for £12 (I think) to fans before those shares plummeted in value to less than a tenth of that during his chairmanship. The fans lost all that money while Ellis became a multi-millionaire off it.
Dont't know about his final salary, but I doubt it was that much different from what the current management team are paid.
As for the shares. All existing shareholders got the same deal/opportunity: convert to the new shares at the rate you mention and then hold, sell or buy more as you please. Such is modern life that investors made losses - nobody forced fans to be investors.
However, not many of them had the opportunity to buy shares for £5 when they knew they were worth much more than that, or to use their block vote to convert special shares to ordinary shares at a rate that made even stock market analysts raise an eyebrow.
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I don't think Randy's intentions have ever been anything but honourable towards the Club. However, this article seems to mirror everything that has been happening at B6 in recent times.
http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2012/08/randy_lerners_reign_over_the_c.html
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I don't think Randy's intentions have ever been anything but honourable towards the Club. However, this article seems to mirror everything that has been happening at B6 in recent times.
http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2012/08/randy_lerners_reign_over_the_c.html
Very interesting article.
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HDE made his gains in the main by selling to Lerner, not from the coffers of the club. Of course he took a decent salary, but so does Faulkner and no doubt a few more of lLerner's team.
Are you on a windup?
Ellis was the first football club chairman to pay himself a salary - taking money out of a club in this way was his idea. I haven't got the numbers to hand but wasn't he paying himself a couple of million a year by the end?
Also, he made millions when he floated the club, sold a load of his shares for £12 (I think) to fans before those shares plummeted in value to less than a tenth of that during his chairmanship. The fans lost all that money while Ellis became a multi-millionaire off it.
Dont't know about his final salary, but I doubt it was that much different from what the current management team are paid.
As for the shares. All existing shareholders got the same deal/opportunity: convert to the new shares at the rate you mention and then hold, sell or buy more as you please. Such is modern life that investors made losses - nobody forced fans to be investors.
However, not many of them had the opportunity to buy shares for £5 when they knew they were worth much more than that, or to use their block vote to convert special shares to ordinary shares at a rate that made even stock market analysts raise an eyebrow.
Fair point - we all know he was no angel.
I suppose that means he diluted the equity held by the rest of the shareholders, which stinks, but i'm not sure it equates to taking money out of the club as has been implied.
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You do realise you're all getting free flags for the Bradford game don't you.
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He paid himself a very good wage, plus bonuses, regardless of the club's performance.
Whether he took the bulk of his money from Villa or from outside sources is a moot point but the fact is that he became very rich on the back of the club and never put a single penny in from the day he bought back control from the Bendalls.
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He paid himself a very good wage, plus bonuses, regardless of the club's performance.
Whether he took the bulk of his money from Villa or from outside sources is a moot point but the fact is that he became very rich on the back of the club and never put a single penny in from the day he bought back control from the Bendalls.
And he put the prices up when we went down.
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He paid himself a very good wage, plus bonuses, regardless of the club's performance.
Whether he took the bulk of his money from Villa or from outside sources is a moot point but the fact is that he became very rich on the back of the club and never put a single penny in from the day he bought back control from the Bendalls.
And he put the prices up when we went down.
Which to be fair was something so staggeringly ludicrous he had to be admired for it.
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Doug wouldn't have been any better in modern football,but Randy gave us so much hope.
Randy might have believed he was doing the right thing 3/4 years ago,now I fear he knows himself buying the Villa was a mistake.My god I'm depressed this morning.
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You have to say there are some short memories on here.
Three years ago it was almost unanimous that Randy was the best chairman any club could possibly hope for. It wasn't just Villa fans saying it, fans of other clubs like Man U, Liverpool, etc were saying it too.
Go back to HDE days and there were annual protests against him and he was virtually universally hated.
Present day and to some posters Randy's now an unmitigated disaster and they long for the days Herbert was in charge. Talk about changing history.
Things change. So what?
This is now , 3 years ago we were challenging the top 4 , now we are once again battling relegation , we must look at the here and now .
Randy did a decent job in his first 3 years , since then he not been doing a decent job.
No, Randy didn't do a decent job - we thought he was but he gave MON all the money and let him loose buying whoever (from the British Isles) he wanted. Then he realised MON had spunked it on high wages & average players etc. If he had any business brain he would have stopped it or taken more control earlier on. We may not have found ourselves in this position now, fighting relegation.
We were challenging for a top 4 place in those 3 years and bought in some quality players , along with 2 trips to Wembley- the owner backed his manager and unfortunately mon wasted a lot of money on some average overpaid players.
Randys mistakes since mon left have mainly been choice of managers and the reeling in of spending which has seen quality players going and being replaced with cheaper options.
I was not unhappy with his first 3 years as I think he gave it a real go to try and achieve a top 4 place , since then ambition has waned.
We still didn't win anything or get into the CL. And now look at what cost, Randy was for to trusting with MON. 6th place was minimal for me the the money spent. Looking back and where we are now it seems he's clueless how to run a football club, the Browns is also evidence of that. I just hope he can see what is happening and spend some cash in Jan.
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Nail on head, Dribbler.
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Doug wouldn't have been any better in modern football,but Randy gave us so much hope.
Randy might have believed he was doing the right thing 3/4 years ago,now I fear he knows himself buying the Villa was a mistake.My god I'm depressed this morning.
It might be that the more you believed in Randy the more you feel let down. There were those who said that by now we'd have won the Champions League with Ronaldo in the team and our shirts on sale in Villaworld, Ulan Bator. They'll be more let down than those who thought we'd be more consistently at the top end of where we'd usually been - top six but without the occasional flirtation with the bottom end of the table.
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Oi Kelly, don't you start with the bloody massive quote thing!
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Que?
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Que?
This.
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The reasons for our current predicament are many and I don't think you can lay the blame at any one person's door. Yes at the end of the day the Chairman has to take ultimate responsibility, he hires the Chief Executive, and with advice chooses the manager, he also determines the finances and defines the overall structure of the club, but I think he is far from being a bad owner. He has invested heavily in this club, even post MoN, and has backed Houllier, McLeish and Lambert with not inconsiderable amounts of money in the transfer market over the last 3 years. We are still one of the biggest spenders on players over the last few years so I think this not investing in the club or the team myth should be put to bed.
MoN was manager when he took over, he invested heavily in him, and despite all of MoNs faults in his style of play, choice of players and squad usage, he got us within a hairs breadth of breaking into the holy grail of the top four and getting cup success. In retrospect it looks like it was a boom or bust approach, and MoN unfortunately left us bust when he left, with the timing of his departure but more importantly with very shaky structural foundations and the number of average premiership players with long contracts and high wages.
Personally I don't think Houllier was a bad appointment, apart from the verbal gaffs he made, which IMO unduly aroused the ire of some overly precious supporters, I think he was trying to build a good footballing side and trying to turn around a very difficult situation, coming in when the season had already started. The illness wasn't good obviously, but even after his illness I think had we stayed with him, we would have done well. Even McAllister would have been a good option to keep on, he'd strung a good set of results together against some good teams at the end of the season to see us safe and would have provided the necessary continuity into the next season.
The big gaff was McLeish, it was a vastly unpopular decision which was never going to work because of his history, but IMO it was the wrong decision primarily because it lacked continuity regarding the style of football and the direction we wanted to go. We then had a whole new set of McLeish signings to add to the MoN core of the team and the Houllier signings and were again veering back towards an old school footballing style rather than the progressive style of football we were trying to develop under Houllier.
I think in the summer most people were in agreement that Lambert was a good choice as manager, young, ambitious and successful (albeit outside of the premiership) and his vision of building a good progressive footballing side from young and hungry players fitted the clubs vision that we'd originally had with Houllier. He was backed with money in the summer, and by all accounts could have spent more if he'd wanted. Whilst the club have stressed they want to go with a youth type policy, Lambert made his own choices of transfers (apart from Holman) and has made his own choices regarding his treatment of the existing senior core of the team when he came in. Lambert was yet another change in direction of managerial style but he has made his decisions on transfers, training, football style and tactics and squad choice. He has to take responsibility for those and the fact that given what he has to had to play with, there is no excuse for performing as badly as we have many times this season.
All in all I don't think Randy has been, or is, a bad owner, the McLeish choice was baffling and pivotal in our current predicament because of the volte face it had on the teams philosophy and direction, but the ethos and investment have been there and I don't believe for one minute he has lost interest.
I also want to address the often cited argument that we are where we are because we sold all of our best players and replaced them with lesser players. Who are all of the amazing players we have 'got rid of'? To my mind Young, Milner and Downing are the only ones most of us would say we didn't really want sold, even then some people wanted rid, and it seems all 3 wanted to leave. We have brought some good players in since, we've also brought some cack players in, and on big money. The managers have to stand by their signings at the end of the day.
So who's fault is all this? Well IMO no one person's, the chairman yes, the CEO, most definitely yes, MoN most definitely yes, subsequent managers, yes, and of course many of the players. The prime reason for me historically that explains where we are is the lack of continuity and the failure of the so called '5 year plan', ultimately as I started with that comes down to the owner and more specifically the CEO, who I think has to go at the end of the season.
Lambert however has to stand up and take responsibility as the current manager of the team and for trying to change things to quickly, if we survive this season we will be fine next season and things will be promising, if not, well I fear we will be buggered. Let's just hope then that significant investment comes in January and that it is spent wisely and we get the players in needed to secure our future.
Couldn't agree more with this post. In hindsight (although I was opposed to it at the time), it might have been better to keep Houllier on for a little longer, even if it had been in a Director of Football type role due to his health. I think he would have made changes that summer that would have benefited the club (the likes of Dunne, Warnock and Ireland would have been gone for starters) and we might not have been in the situation we now find ourselves in. I still don't think he did a very good job at Villa, but seeing what has followed he maybe should have been given a bit more time.
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Look what you've started now Kelly.
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An interesting post by Dribbler, I agree Houllier wasn't as bad an appointment as some would have it, and I was disappointed we didn't get a chance to see who he might have brought in two summers ago. The rumoured targets were pretty interesting.
However I'm not sure though how you come to the conclusion that Lerner isn't a bad owner. You seem to base it on the fact he provided funds, but so did Ridsdale at Leeds. That has to be done wisely, within budget, and according to a plan. While he was let down by his managers, especially O'Neill, the dross he sanctioned massive over payments for served to reveal his complete lack of knowledge of football. And when the shit or bust approach didn't quite work, what was his fallback position? A complete u-turn on wages, almost overnight, and ultimately turning to the most rustic and negative safety first abomination of a manager in McLeish. After having sought the advice of Alex Ferguson, who must have been pissing himself behind his whisky glass. It's no good providing funds for transfer fees if the wages dictate you have to fill your squad with players from the academy, lower leagues, or inferior leagues, when the only experience in the squad is sub-standard (Warnock, Hutton, N'Zogbia, Gabby), not interested (Ireland, possibly Bent), or crocked (Dunne). It doesn't seem to have dawned on the clown that there is relegation in this form of football, with all the financial meltdown that embodies, and you can't just pull the plug and hope to rebuild later.
Despite hos own lack of knowledge, he has completely failed to put anyone in charge at the club with the faintest knowledge of English football. How the hell can you run a business successfully with little or no knowledge of that business?
We can't say we weren't warned either, the Browns fans have been banging on for years about what a useless owner he was, and his record did there shows little to contradict that. And it's starting to look frighteningly similar here.
As Hilts said, it's been downhill since he had to start making important decisions, but the damage was being done for several years before that. It just reached tipping point when O'Neill flounced out.
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The big gaff was McLeish, it was a vastly unpopular decision which was never going to work because of his history, but IMO it was the wrong decision primarily because it lacked continuity regarding the style of football and the direction we wanted to go. We then had a whole new set of McLeish signings to add to the MoN core of the team and the Houllier signings and were again veering back towards an old school footballing style rather than the progressive style of football we were trying to develop under Houllier.
I think this is absolutely spot on.
There are various reasons you could criticise that appointment - desperation, style of football, proven record of relegation, and yes, unpopular with the fans - but the most stupid thing was the total lack of footballing continuity.
There wasn't even any sign of joined-up thinking in the process we followed for finding a new manager. We'd lost Houllier, but at the end of the season, we were starting to see an improvement in both style and results.
We then went and looked at Martinez. Lots of us were perplexed by this as his record was poor, but there was at the very least a sign of continuity in terms of footballing style. That much made sense.
When that didn't work, we turned to McLeish, a manager with a style diametrically opposed to that of both Houllier and Martinez. It stank of desperation, and the results were predictable.
As if all that weren't enough, there was the fact that in 12 months, it managed to drive a great big wedge between club and supporters. Whether they were unhappy from the start because of his style / record / previous employers, whatever the root cause of the dislike, after a season of repeated embarassment, a great deal of damage was done.
I know you could say losing at Chelsea 8-0 was embarassing - and it was - but I personally found the way we lined up at Spurs under McLeish to be way, way more embarassing. There just wasn't any ambition whatsoever, it was surrendering before the match started.
Lots of us will be able to remember previous seasons where we were consistently piss poor, but I don't know if many of us recall seasons more humiliating than last year. We became the sort of team all other fans pray goes down.
The damage of that appointment was huge, and is easily his biggest mistake in my opinion.
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He's made mistakes in recruitment, so has pretty much anybody who's ever run a business (although TSM was a giant f*ck up). But the thing that gets me still and I know it's not his style, is if he let us know what was in his head a bit more (not in a Dave Whelan way) we may understand more and not be left speculating. A message, even if it's an unpopular one, may be better than silence while we really struggle. There are endless lectures and management programmes about communication, he must have missed them. Lambert could do a bit better in this respect too.
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He's made mistakes in recruitment, so has pretty much anybody who's ever run a business (although TSM was a giant f*ck up). But the thing that gets me still and I know it's not his style, is if he let us know what was in his head a bit more (not in a Dave Whelan way) we may understand more and not be left speculating. A message, even if it's an unpopular one, may be better than silence while we really struggle. There are endless lectures and management programmes about communication, he must have missed them. Lambert could do a bit better in this respect too.
In that case then, Faulkner as CEO needs to piss or get off the pot. We know Lerner won't talk and in that scenario it is essential the CEO starts to take some pressure off the Manager. As usual the silence from the Ginger one is deafening, he needs to grow a pair and start earning the vast salary Lerner pays him and tell us what the hell the vision is from here.
Alternatively, if the shackles have been put on Faulkner by Lerner, then our American owner deserves every bit of shit thats flying in his direction. I can't believe the boardroom cannot see that they are leaving the Manager massively exposed here both from a communication and financing perspective, the pair of them need to start showing some fucking Leadership because all I'm seeing is Paul Lambert trying to keep the Aston Titanic from hitting a bloody great Ipswich Town/Bradford City shaped iceberg at the moment.
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Lerner doesn't like to talk but is there anything stopping him putting a message on the official site-.you are the captain of the ship Randolph!
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Despite all of this prattle about the past, i.e. Doug vs Randy, i would sooner look at where we are likely to be in the future under Randy. I'm sure it will eventually be out of the premier league. We've been turned into a laughing stock over the past couple of years, and if he continues in the same way it will only get even worse. I just wish he'd sell up.
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Lerner doesn't like to talk but is there anything stopping him putting a message on the official site-.you are the captain of the ship Randolph!
Iceberg ahoy!
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As far as I'm concerned both Lerner and Doug are/were crap owners, but for different reasons. For the foreseeable future we are stuck with Lerner who seems to have his head firmly planted up his own rear end. I suppose it could be worse, it could be the Venkeys or Yeung.
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Maybe a divorce and a buiseness going bump may just have distracted him a bit.
I so wish Lambert had been Manager when Lerner was splashing the cash instead of Pubehead. We would be in europe every season by now and top four. IMV.
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Maybe a divorce and a buiseness going bump may just have distracted him a bit.
I so wish Lambert had been Manager when Lerner was splashing the cash instead of Pubehead. We would be in europe every season by now and top four. IMV.
Yes.
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He's done to the Villa what he managed at the Browns:
1. Perennial underachievement
2. A succession of managerial appointments without on field success
3. Lost the fans
4. Wasted 'his' money.
5. Appointed poor GM's.
At least he is consistent with his ownership of sporting 'franchises'. Next step, as with the Browns, is sell the Villa...........
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Is his problem that he listens to advisers rather going with his own thoughts. With those advisers not being local enough and without the knowledge of the club and the supporters.
He has said in the past that he employs people to do their jobs.
Would it be different if he was more actively involved.
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He's done to the Villa what he managed at the Browns:
1. Perennial underachievement
2. A succession of managerial appointments without on field success
3. Lost the fans
4. Wasted 'his' money.
5. Appointed poor GM's.
At least he is consistent with his ownership of sporting 'franchises'. Next step, as with the Browns, is sell the Villa...........
To who though ? I am sure there are rich Arabs lining up around the block for us, i wish. Somebody with stupid money is what is needed, . Let us do a Man City. That is the only way we are going to ever compete and stand the chance of being top of the tree again.
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Somebody with stupid money is what is needed
As opposed to somebody stupid with money.
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Somebody with stupid money is what is needed
As opposed to somebody stupid with money.
Yes. Exactly.
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He's done to the Villa what he managed at the Browns:
1. Perennial underachievement
2. A succession of managerial appointments without on field success
3. Lost the fans
4. Wasted 'his' money.
5. Appointed poor GM's.
At least he is consistent with his ownership of sporting 'franchises'. Next step, as with the Browns, is sell the Villa...........
To who though ? I am sure there are rich Arabs lining up around the block for us, i wish. Somebody with stupid money is what is needed, . Let us do a Man City. That is the only way we are going to ever compete and stand the chance of being top of the tree again.
I'm wasn't saying he should sell but it was the last thing he did with the Browns. He won't sell at the moment as (as you rightly point out) there is no-one out there to sell us too.
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when MON left us deep in it
I'm still a bit confused about the Mon episode. Was he sacked or did he resign? And if the latter did he give any reasons for doing so?
The horrible thing is that the odious little man is a whole lot richer for it.
Sorry for harping on about O'Neill but The General's son brought it up again.
I've just checked to see if Mr Krulak Jnr had been able to answer my question. (He hasn't. But I wasn't holding my breath anyway).
DC5 I realise that you are a long time Villa fan with a bit of inside knowledge. Was MON sacked or did he walk? And if he walked was there any statement from him as to why? I think I read on a message board somewhere (and I can't think where that would be apart from here) that MON on the day that he left went into Faulkner's office and read to him his resignation letter.
Not trolling. Would just like to learn the truth.
Again I'm not really expecting an answer but in any case Happy New Year to you and Pauline.
Edited for idiocy.
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when MON left us deep in it
I'm still a bit confused about the Mon episode. Was he sacked or did he resign? And if the latter did he give any reasons for doing so?
The horrible thing is that the odious little man is a whole lot richer for it.
Sorry for harping on about O'Neill but The General's son brought it up again.
I've just checked to see if Mr Krulak Jnr had been able to answer my question. (He hasn't. But I wasn't holding my breath anyway).
DC5 I realise that you are a long time Villa fan with a bit of inside knowledge. Was MON sacked or did he walk? And if he walked was there any statement from him as to why? I think I read on a message board somewhere (and I can't think where that would be apart from here) that MON on the day that he left went into Faulkner's office and read to him his resignation letter.
Not trolling. Would just like to learn the truth.
Again I'm not really expecting an answer but in any case Happy New Year to you and Pauline.
Edited for idiocy.
Happy New Year, Ronshirt.
I predicted that O'Neill would be sacked and would like to think he was but I have had no information, before or since, to confirm it. Reluctantly, I have to accept that he probably resigned but the figure of £9m compensation, that we heard, would not have been paid under any other
circumstances than the sack.
Maybe that is much more than he actually got but I have had the £9m from a good source, although outside the club.
I can't believe pelty came on here with that attitude. Whereas we may all bicker and squabble, we wouldn't be here, in the vast majority of cases, if we didn't support the club. We don't need ticking off by an outsider.
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Transfer plans are clearly now all firmly in place; Randy's Falcon departed from BHX at 12.40 hrs today.
(Credit: www.bhxspotter.com/blog/movements/)
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when MON left us deep in it
I'm still a bit confused about the Mon episode. Was he sacked or did he resign? And if the latter did he give any reasons for doing so?
The horrible thing is that the odious little man is a whole lot richer for it.
Sorry for harping on about O'Neill but The General's son brought it up again.
I've just checked to see if Mr Krulak Jnr had been able to answer my question. (He hasn't. But I wasn't holding my breath anyway).
DC5 I realise that you are a long time Villa fan with a bit of inside knowledge. Was MON sacked or did he walk? And if he walked was there any statement from him as to why? I think I read on a message board somewhere (and I can't think where that would be apart from here) that MON on the day that he left went into Faulkner's office and read to him his resignation letter.
Not trolling. Would just like to learn the truth.
Again I'm not really expecting an answer but in any case Happy New Year to you and Pauline.
Edited for idiocy.
Happy New Year, Ronshirt.
I predicted that O'Neill would be sacked and would like to think he was but I have had no information, before or since, to confirm it. Reluctantly, I have to accept that he probably resigned but the figure of £9m compensation, that we heard, would not have been paid under any other
circumstances than the sack.
Maybe that is much more than he actually got but I have had the £9m from a good source, although outside the club.
I can't believe pelty came on here with that attitude. Whereas we may all bicker and squabble, we wouldn't be here, in the vast majority of cases, if we didn't support the club. We don't need ticking off by an outsider.
Bit harsh that DC5. Pelty's a fan like the rest of us unless you have to live within 10miles of the ground or have 5+ years on the clock supporting us not to be considered an outsider. Given his connections he's bound to get a bit "touchy" now and then given the current opinions on this board about people he's knows personally, but unless he's getting paid by the club to come on here he's obviously a fan. Either that or a masochist.
happy new year btw
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Happy New Year, Greg.
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In reply to Greg, I did a bit of research. Pelty said this:
This was pathetic. MON needs to stop whinging about how hard life is and set about improving the team (and, concurrently, not wasting money on the wages of players that never sniff the pitch). If there were a sell-to-buy policy (which there is not), then he would only have himself to blame for the exorbitant wages spent on horrible players. The top wage earner at the club is Emile Heskey. Whose fault is that, I wonder? He has had plenty of money at his disposal and used it on a fair amount of garbage (not in total, of course, but his record in this is only so-so). He is fickle in his player selection and then, when he settles on a side, he runs it into the ground. Further, he has proved himself incapable of identifying talent outside of the country and thus is force to pay these higher wages; again, his fault. This whole moan would be laughable if it were not so infuriating.
I don't think any supporter could have put it better. Happy new year, Pelty.
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The problem with Pelty is you only here off him when things are shit,and instead of knocking the door,he kick's the fucker in.
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Is it a cry for help?
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Is it a cry for help?
probably.
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Is it a cry for help?
probably.
What can we do to help?
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I didn't know urban legends celebrated New Year!
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Is it a cry for help?
probably.
What can we do to help?u
A new year so I am gonna try and be nice.He doesn't listen so a bit of 'good cop' might work.
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I didn't know urban legends celebrated New Year!
Urban myths might do.
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Totally the wrong thread as well. I'm not pished honest!
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Is it a cry for help?
probably.
What can we do to help?u
A new year so I am gonna try and be nice.He doesn't listen so a bit of 'good cop' might work.
We might even tease his old man out of retirement, probably a day or two after beating Bradford is my guess.
'Hi Folks. I used to post here regularly, in fact I had my own column, and fought for 39 years in the US Army. Any chance of a League Cup Final ticket?'
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Totally the wrong thread as well. I'm not pished honest!
I'e only had four bottles of Oakham Inferno and a double scotch.
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The General gets his Birminghams mixed up,he would want a ticket for the Cotton Bowl.
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Lerner's major error was gambling on the wrong horse when he let Mon spend champions league money on players that proved insufficient to the task. If we'd made the top 4 under MoN and done a decent job in the champions league, the wages issue would never have happened. RL backed him that we were going to get there. The 3rd 6th place showed clearly that he'd hit a wall but if Lerner had withdrawn the funds earlier would the fans have been lauding him for making the right decision, or deriding him as another Doug who nearly made it but then wimped out.
Everything since then has come from the fact that we gambled on making the champions league and failed, with the only other major error being that he thought TSM could come in and get us back to playing the way MoN did, thereby making use of the millions of pounds of players we had at the club who couldn't adapt to the GH methods.
Calls for him to sell are well wide of the mark as far as I'm concerned, and suggesting he's some terrible owner who's gone from mistake to mistake just doesn't fit my view of things at all.
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Lerner's major error was gambling on the wrong horse when he let Mon spend champions league money on players that proved insufficient to the task. If we'd made the top 4 under MoN and done a decent job in the champions league, the wages issue would never have happened. RL backed him that we were going to get there. The 3rd 6th place showed clearly that he'd hit a wall but if Lerner had withdrawn the funds earlier would the fans have been lauding him for making the right decision, or deriding him as another Doug who nearly made it but then wimped out.
Everything since then has come from the fact that we gambled on making the champions league and failed, with the only other major error being that he thought TSM could come in and get us back to playing the way MoN did, thereby making use of the millions of pounds of players we had at the club who couldn't adapt to the GH methods.
Calls for him to sell are well wide of the mark as far as I'm concerned, and suggesting he's some terrible owner who's gone from mistake to mistake just doesn't fit my view of things at all.
That's how I see it.
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Sometimes this club reminds me of episodes of Ramseys Kitchen Nightmares. Someone comes in, from a completely different line of business thinking they can run a successful restaurant, piss money up the wall and then get to a point where disaster is just around the corner.
My point?
Anyone have Gordon Ramseys number?
"Oi Randy yer fooking bastard! Get a director of football in!"
"Oi Ireland! Do something! How bout getting yerself a syrup like mine!"
Etc.
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Lerner's major error was gambling on the wrong horse when he let Mon spend champions league money on players that proved insufficient to the task. If we'd made the top 4 under MoN and done a decent job in the champions league, the wages issue would never have happened. RL backed him that we were going to get there. The 3rd 6th place showed clearly that he'd hit a wall but if Lerner had withdrawn the funds earlier would the fans have been lauding him for making the right decision, or deriding him as another Doug who nearly made it but then wimped out.
Everything since then has come from the fact that we gambled on making the champions league and failed, with the only other major error being that he thought TSM could come in and get us back to playing the way MoN did, thereby making use of the millions of pounds of players we had at the club who couldn't adapt to the GH methods.
Calls for him to sell are well wide of the mark as far as I'm concerned, and suggesting he's some terrible owner who's gone from mistake to mistake just doesn't fit my view of things at all.
That's how I see it.
Me too.
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He just needs to take the club out of Paul Faulkner's hands. Randy has absolutely nothing to do with any of it. The only role player that has remained throughout this entire relegation dogfight over the past 2.5 to 3 years is Faulkner. He guides the club, the same way Mike Holmgren did at the Browns. New GM/CEO with an actual footballing brain and a plan and we'll come good.
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Is it stating the obvious to say (again) that the best signing Villa could make this January would never play a game, nor set foot in the pitch?
Stride, stop fannying around with UEFA and get back to your desk.
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Is it stating the obvious to say (again) that the best signing Villa could make this January would never play a game, nor set foot in the pitch?
Stride, stop fannying around with UEFA and get back to your desk.
Indeed. I wonder if we could match his wages...
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Is it stating the obvious to say (again) that the best signing Villa could make this January would never play a game, nor set foot in the pitch?
Stride, stop fannying around with UEFA and get back to your desk.
I'm sure you've said before how unlikely this scenario is. I'd still like it to happen though.
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Is it stating the obvious to say (again) that the best signing Villa could make this January would never play a game, nor set foot in the pitch?
Stride, stop fannying around with UEFA and get back to your desk.
What role has stride got with uefa? I didn't know he was still involved in football- would be a much better option than Faulkner in my opinion.
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Sometimes this club reminds me of episodes of Ramseys Kitchen Nightmares. Someone comes in, from a completely different line of business thinking they can run a successful restaurant, piss money up the wall and then get to a point where disaster is just around the corner.
My point?
Anyone have Gordon Ramseys number?
"Oi Randy yer fooking bastard! Get a director of football in!"
"Oi Ireland! Do something! How bout getting yerself a syrup like mine!"
Etc.
Gordon Ramsey wears a syrup?!
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Is it stating the obvious to say (again) that the best signing Villa could make this January would never play a game, nor set foot in the pitch?
Stride, stop fannying around with UEFA and get back to your desk.
What role has stride got with uefa? I didn't know he was still involved in football- would be a much better option than Faulkner in my opinion.
He's on their 'expert' panel - acts as overseer for games and sits on tribunals, that sort of thing. It's not full-time but I daresay it's not a bad part-time gig.
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Is it stating the obvious to say (again) that the best signing Villa could make this January would never play a game, nor set foot in the pitch?
Stride, stop fannying around with UEFA and get back to your desk.
What role has stride got with uefa? I didn't know he was still involved in football- would be a much better option than Faulkner in my opinion.
He's on their 'expert' panel - acts as overseer for games and sits on tribunals, that sort of thing. It's not full-time but I daresay it's not a bad part-time gig.
Exactly, would he even want to come back here?
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Is it stating the obvious to say (again) that the best signing Villa could make this January would never play a game, nor set foot in the pitch?
Stride, stop fannying around with UEFA and get back to your desk.
What role has stride got with uefa? I didn't know he was still involved in football- would be a much better option than Faulkner in my opinion.
He's on their 'expert' panel - acts as overseer for games and sits on tribunals, that sort of thing. It's not full-time but I daresay it's not a bad part-time gig.
I will carry him to Villa Park if that's what it takes.Where does he live?
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Is it stating the obvious to say (again) that the best signing Villa could make this January would never play a game, nor set foot in the pitch?
Stride, stop fannying around with UEFA and get back to your desk.
What role has stride got with uefa? I didn't know he was still involved in football- would be a much better option than Faulkner in my opinion.
He's on their 'expert' panel - acts as overseer for games and sits on tribunals, that sort of thing. It's not full-time but I daresay it's not a bad part-time gig.
I will carry him to Villa Park if that's what it takes.Where does he live?
I think he is still in Four Oaks. He's a friend of a friend on my facebook thingy.
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Is it stating the obvious to say (again) that the best signing Villa could make this January would never play a game, nor set foot in the pitch?
Stride, stop fannying around with UEFA and get back to your desk.
What role has stride got with uefa? I didn't know he was still involved in football- would be a much better option than Faulkner in my opinion.
He's on their 'expert' panel - acts as overseer for games and sits on tribunals, that sort of thing. It's not full-time but I daresay it's not a bad part-time gig.
I will carry him to Villa Park if that's what it takes.Where does he live?
I think he is still in Four Oaks. He's a friend of a friend on my facebook thingy.
Bad back and a dodgy knee,but I will take one for the team.
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Is it stating the obvious to say (again) that the best signing Villa could make this January would never play a game, nor set foot in the pitch?
Stride, stop fannying around with UEFA and get back to your desk.
What role has stride got with uefa? I didn't know he was still involved in football- would be a much better option than Faulkner in my opinion.
Probably working on a plan to legitimize franchising...
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Mr Woodhall, do you think Stride will return?
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I reckon he'd come back if asked and offered a decent package.
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Mr Woodhall, do you think Stride will return?
No.
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And what would he do anyway? He was a brilliant administrator by all accounts, but how would he have helped over the last few years? I'm sure in terms of the day to day making sure paperwork was correct and admin matters, he was excellent, but that's not where we've suffered is it? Would he really have been the person to tell O'Neill that he couldn't buy the likes of Harewood or Habib Beye, or would he have stopped Lerner appointing McLeish? Somehow I think not.
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He might have pointed out the ticking time bomb of the wage bill, and referenced the age and value of some of the players on it.
Seems like nobody in the camp actually thought about that until it was far too late, and we were hacking away at it desperately, trying to reduce it, and risking our top flight status in the process.
I even recall some of us on the General's thread pointing out the wage bill, and the players not getting used, but we were told not to worry our little heads about the finances, and that they knew what they were doing.
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He might have pointed out the ticking time bomb of the wage bill, and referenced the age and value of some of the players on it.
Seems like nobody in the camp actually thought about that until it was far too late, and we were hacking away at it desperately, trying to reduce it, and risking our top flight status in the process.
I even recall some of us on the General's thread pointing out the wage bill, and the players not getting used, but we were told not to worry our little heads about the finances, and that they knew what they were doing.
As said, I believe they did know exactly what they were doing, which was gambling on making the champions league before wages became an issue, that qualification, if we'd made the group stages, would've been worth £20-30m (in terms of increased sponsorship value, TV revenues and prize money, potentially a lot more with extra merchandise and ticket sales), which more than covers the wages we 'overspent' on in trying to get there.
The problem is they gambled on a manager who was too limited in the transfer market and in terms of rotating his squad and the wheels came off.
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And what would he do anyway? He was a brilliant administrator by all accounts, but how would he have helped over the last few years? I'm sure in terms of the day to day making sure paperwork was correct and admin matters, he was excellent, but that's not where we've suffered is it? Would he really have been the person to tell O'Neill that he couldn't buy the likes of Harewood or Habib Beye, or would he have stopped Lerner appointing McLeish? Somehow I think not.
He has the respect of everyone in the game. Almost forty years working in one business, most of that time at a senior level, enables quite a lot of knowledge to rub off. Who knows, maybe O'Neill would have listened to him.
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I see Steve Stride more as an excellent Chief Operations Officer and one who would do a fantastic job at VIlla Park. The role of a football clubs CEO is complex having a need to combine the accountancy skills needed in negotiations etc, to recognition of the the importance of success on the field through support of the team manager. Someone is needed who is experienced in footballing matters, is well connected, and has boardroom experience. I am sure there are others but certainly Graham Taylor , John Deehan ( albeit at lower league level) seem to have the CV required.
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Who knows, maybe O'Neill would have listened to him.
I doubt it. I don't think MON listens to anyone.
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Not a terrible article.
http://www.football365.com/f365-says/8376205/F365-Focus (http://www.football365.com/f365-says/8376205/F365-Focus)
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I see Steve Stride more as an excellent Chief Operations Officer and one who would do a fantastic job at VIlla Park. The role of a football clubs CEO is complex having a need to combine the accountancy skills needed in negotiations etc, to recognition of the the importance of success on the field through support of the team manager. Someone is needed who is experienced in footballing matters, is well connected, and has boardroom experience. I am sure there are others but certainly Graham Taylor , John Deehan ( albeit at lower league level) seem to have the CV required.
I agree, but I don't think Lerner will replace Faulkner.
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I see Steve Stride more as an excellent Chief Operations Officer and one who would do a fantastic job at VIlla Park. The role of a football clubs CEO is complex having a need to combine the accountancy skills needed in negotiations etc, to recognition of the the importance of success on the field through support of the team manager. Someone is needed who is experienced in footballing matters, is well connected, and has boardroom experience. I am sure there are others but certainly Graham Taylor , John Deehan ( albeit at lower league level) seem to have the CV required.
How would people like Deehan or Taylor have the accountancy or financial skills you mention? The point about a good board of directors is that you have people with differing skills (eg finance, operations, sales and marketing etc) who combine to ensure that a company as a whole is well run, with a strategy that calls on all of their experience. What seems to have happened in the O'Neill years is that the financial strategy for the club was non-existent, with Lerner apparently giving O'Neill carte blanche to just sign whatever players he wanted, on whatever salary. There doesn't seem to have been any sort of budget setting or cost analysis undertaken.
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Not a terrible article.
http://www.football365.com/f365-says/8376205/F365-Focus (http://www.football365.com/f365-says/8376205/F365-Focus)
A good piece in my view.
The stats quoted are awful and really shamful for a club the size of the Villa
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Who knows, maybe O'Neill would have listened to him.
I doubt it. I don't think MON listens to anyone.
The only person MON listens to is the voice inside his head telling him to spunk away half the transfer budget on below average bench warmers.
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Rissbert I agree though in my defence I was alluding to accountancy knowledge with the background of negotiating player contracts, bonus structure and termination deals rather than pure Chartered Accountancy qualifications. Also I am not sure whether the current boardroom has that scope of experience and knowledge that is needed, especially relating to footballing matters,
rather than the commercials of marketing a product.
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It doesn't have to be a former Villa person they bring in,just somebody who knows enough about football.
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I see Steve Stride more as an excellent Chief Operations Officer and one who would do a fantastic job at VIlla Park. The role of a football clubs CEO is complex having a need to combine the accountancy skills needed in negotiations etc, to recognition of the the importance of success on the field through support of the team manager. Someone is needed who is experienced in footballing matters, is well connected, and has boardroom experience. I am sure there are others but certainly Graham Taylor , John Deehan ( albeit at lower league level) seem to have the CV required.
How would people like Deehan or Taylor have the accountancy or financial skills you mention? The point about a good board of directors is that you have people with differing skills (eg finance, operations, sales and marketing etc) who combine to ensure that a company as a whole is well run, with a strategy that calls on all of their experience. What seems to have happened in the O'Neill years is that the financial strategy for the club was non-existent, with Lerner apparently giving O'Neill carte blanche to just sign whatever players he wanted, on whatever salary. There doesn't seem to have been any sort of budget setting or cost analysis undertaken.
The 'what seems to have happened' in there is the key bit as it allows you to then continue the sentence based around you're opinions which are no more valid or verified than anything else. We were aiming for the champions league, that much is clear. We had our first 6th place, at which point we hadn't spent massively and had a wage bill that was perfectly acceptable for a team who were in the top 6 of the richest league in the world. We then had a big spending summer where we tried to bridge that gap, at that point we moved into speculation, whereby the wage bill was extended to slightly more than a top 6 side of our financial size was comfortable with but still not massively out of line with our earnings. That didn't work either with MoN clearly arguing that the forwards were fine but we needed to repalce Barry (Downing) and buy a defence to take us to the next level. RL agreed to that on the provision that we had to make the champions league as at that point our wage bill went through the roof, when it was clear we weren't going to make it again MoN was told he had to get the wages down to a suitable level because we couldn't keep gambling on making the top 4.
Everything since then comes back to us not making that step up despite funding both in terms of fees and wages being sufficient to do so (and thereby totally reliant on us doing so).
I genuinely don't see what he's done that was so wrong.
Someone with a bit of football knowledge on the board might have questioned the value of signing Collins and Dunne when we had Cuellar and Davies as existing expensive central defenders and only allowed 1 or the other, and other similar queries but fundamentally MON sold himself as being able to deliver the top 4 and RL gave him the backing to do it and made financial restrictions based on MON delivering.
In hindsight he got it wrong but I can't believe anyone thinks the fan base would've been happy to read reports saying RL had pulled the plug on various deals because they were ridiculous when we were comfortably top 6. As mentioned, the comparisons to Doug not having the balls pony up the cash would've been everywhere and he'd have been no different to the previous guy.
The reality is he did exactly what the fans wanted when he came in, he put fuck loads of cash on the table and said "win me things", he just didn't have the right guy in front of him when he did it (but I doubt many people thought that at the time).
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I see Steve Stride more as an excellent Chief Operations Officer and one who would do a fantastic job at VIlla Park. The role of a football clubs CEO is complex having a need to combine the accountancy skills needed in negotiations etc, to recognition of the the importance of success on the field through support of the team manager. Someone is needed who is experienced in footballing matters, is well connected, and has boardroom experience. I am sure there are others but certainly Graham Taylor , John Deehan ( albeit at lower league level) seem to have the CV required.
How would people like Deehan or Taylor have the accountancy or financial skills you mention? The point about a good board of directors is that you have people with differing skills (eg finance, operations, sales and marketing etc) who combine to ensure that a company as a whole is well run, with a strategy that calls on all of their experience. What seems to have happened in the O'Neill years is that the financial strategy for the club was non-existent, with Lerner apparently giving O'Neill carte blanche to just sign whatever players he wanted, on whatever salary. There doesn't seem to have been any sort of budget setting or cost analysis undertaken.
The 'what seems to have happened' in there is the key bit as it allows you to then continue the sentence based around you're opinions which are no more valid or verified than anything else. We were aiming for the champions league, that much is clear. We had our first 6th place, at which point we hadn't spent massively and had a wage bill that was perfectly acceptable for a team who were in the top 6 of the richest league in the world. We then had a big spending summer where we tried to bridge that gap, at that point we moved into speculation, whereby the wage bill was extended to slightly more than a top 6 side of our financial size was comfortable with but still not massively out of line with our earnings. That didn't work either with MoN clearly arguing that the forwards were fine but we needed to repalce Barry (Downing) and buy a defence to take us to the next level. RL agreed to that on the provision that we had to make the champions league as at that point our wage bill went through the roof, when it was clear we weren't going to make it again MoN was told he had to get the wages down to a suitable level because we couldn't keep gambling on making the top 4.
Everything since then comes back to us not making that step up despite funding both in terms of fees and wages being sufficient to do so (and thereby totally reliant on us doing so).
I genuinely don't see what he's done that was so wrong.
Someone with a bit of football knowledge on the board might have questioned the value of signing Collins and Dunne when we had Cuellar and Davies as existing expensive central defenders and only allowed 1 or the other, and other similar queries but fundamentally MON sold himself as being able to deliver the top 4 and RL gave him the backing to do it and made financial restrictions based on MON delivering.
In hindsight he got it wrong but I can't believe anyone thinks the fan base would've been happy to read reports saying RL had pulled the plug on various deals because they were ridiculous when we were comfortably top 6. As mentioned, the comparisons to Doug not having the balls pony up the cash would've been everywhere and he'd have been no different to the previous guy.
The reality is he did exactly what the fans wanted when he came in, he put fuck loads of cash on the table and said "win me things", he just didn't have the right guy in front of him when he did it (but I doubt many people thought that at the time).
Nail. On. Head.
Let's face it, at the time he was appointed 99% of fans were ecstatic at MON arriving and the wider world thought it was a fantastic appointment. He was being touted as the next Man Utd manager and the best British or Irish manager there was, after Fergie.
Randy backed him to the hilt and the only criticism you can level at him was that he left it too late to reign him in, but as you rightly point out, Randy was in a no-win situation there because had he reigned him in any sooner the fans would've gone apeshit.
Like it or not, our billionaire isn't as rich as some other club's billionaires and therein lies part of the problem in modern football.
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Yes. Except we didn't complain when he was bankrolling us while clubs like Everton were having to compete with us whilst living within their means. Football fans are very hypocritical on this point. How many city fans do you think used to argue that it was wrong for clubs like Man U to have so much financial clout?
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I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge.
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Sorry, I think that's a load of old horseshit. How would we have known that Lerner had "reigned" (sic) him in or not? How would we have known that instead of spending £40m a year and letting wages get to over 100% of turnover, that a more sensible budget had been set that meant that wages for the forseeable future would be sustainable? Good ownership isn't just about letting a manager buy whatever old shit he wants on stupid contracts, but actually working out what you can afford. It doesn't take a genius to work out that if you employ too many people on £50K a week contracts that you're still liable to pay this three or four years down the line.
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Sorry, I think that's a load of old horseshit. How would we have known that Lerner had "reigned" (sic) him in or not? How would we have known that instead of spending £40m a year and letting wages get to over 100% of turnover, that a more sensible budget had been set that meant that wages for the forseeable future would be sustainable? Good ownership isn't just about letting a manager buy whatever old shit he wants on stupid contracts, but actually working out what you can afford. It doesn't take a genius to work out that if you employ too many people on £50K a week contracts that you're still liable to pay this three or four years down the line.
You really think MON would've worked under those terms without telling all his chums in the press? Within days there would've been headlines about Randy holding the club back, etc, etc.
Anyway, the second Lerner/Faulkner did get tough on MON he stormed off in a strop.
He was in a no-win situation.
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There's no doubting Randy splashed the cash in the MON years, and we were doing nothing to persuade him not to.
However, we didn't know just how close to the financial cliff-edge it was pushing us.
Plus, all that money to try to qualify for the CL - that alone would not have been enough. We'd more than likely have got booted out before the big money started, and in any case, to keep us there would have required even more money.
Whenever Randy gets discussed, too many people just see it as "you don't rate the bloke because he's stopped spending", when that's not the case, certainly not for me. What I want him to do isn't start spending money he hasn't got, and is not sell up to whoever he can and move on, it is to start running the club more effectively, because, whatever he's done over the last few years, it's been a feat of some accomplishment to have spent all that money to wind up with a squad full of kids at the arse end of the table.
Ultimately, he owns the club, he runs it, he therefore has to take a great chunk of the blame for having managed us to where we are now. Given that his running of the Browns was equally poor, you do have to start wondering if the bloke is in the wrong job.
Tottenham and Everton are the two clubs we have been compared to on this thread, and both of those clubs look way better run than we have been. Moyes gets results on a shoestring. Spurs sell their best players, too, but they always seem to manage to replace them, and to move on dead wood from their squad - and all on a wage bill much lower than ours.
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I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge.
I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions. I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win. Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.
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I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge.
I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions. I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win. Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.
I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us.
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Sorry, I think that's a load of old horseshit. How would we have known that Lerner had "reigned" (sic) him in or not? How would we have known that instead of spending £40m a year and letting wages get to over 100% of turnover, that a more sensible budget had been set that meant that wages for the forseeable future would be sustainable? Good ownership isn't just about letting a manager buy whatever old shit he wants on stupid contracts, but actually working out what you can afford. It doesn't take a genius to work out that if you employ too many people on £50K a week contracts that you're still liable to pay this three or four years down the line.
Agree. Randy has run the club awfully since day he arrived. Now it caught up with us. Hindsight is great though isnt it..
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I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge.
I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions. I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win. Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.
I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us.
People in the West Midlands just don't go to football as much as people in the North West or North East. I've no idea how I'd find my post but I did an analysis based on the average attendances of all league clubs in each area and the population of those areas. IIRC on average 3.5% of the West Midlands population went to a football match every fortnight, versus 4% in the North East and 4.5% in the North West. I'm sure Randy's advisors thought they could change that with the right marketing, etc as you said.
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People in the West Midlands don't go to anything as much as others do.
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I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge.
I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions. I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win. Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.
I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us.
People in the West Midlands just don't go to football as much as people in the North West or North East. I've no idea how I'd find my post but I did an analysis based on the average attendances of all league clubs in each area and the population of those areas. IIRC on average 3.5% of the West Midlands population went to a football match every fortnight, versus 4% in the North East and 4.5% in the North West. I'm sure Randy's advisors thought they could change that with the right marketing, etc as you said.
I don't remember seeing the analysis but lots of people in the West Midlands go to Manchester to watch football, and I'd suggest at least 30% of the Old Trafford crowd is made up of non-locals. Similarly Liverpool attract support from a wide catchment area. I'm not saying that you're wrong, just that analysing the flat figures will not give an accurate representation.
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I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge.
I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions. I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win. Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.
I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us.
People in the West Midlands just don't go to football as much as people in the North West or North East. I've no idea how I'd find my post but I did an analysis based on the average attendances of all league clubs in each area and the population of those areas. IIRC on average 3.5% of the West Midlands population went to a football match every fortnight, versus 4% in the North East and 4.5% in the North West. I'm sure Randy's advisors thought they could change that with the right marketing, etc as you said.
I don't remember seeing the analysis but lot's of people in the West Midlands go to Manchester to watch football, and I's suggest at least 30% of the Old Trafford crowd is made up of non-locals. Similarly Liverpool attract support from a wide catchment area.
Which is probably a fair point and not one I imagine Randy or his advisors realised before he bought the Villa.
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I think - and this is only guesswork - that they didn't really understand the psyche of the English football supporter and believed it would be possible to get fans of other clubs to our matches.
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Lets face it go outside of the Midlands and the Villa are almost invisible.
You can go to any place in the UK and see Man U, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea merchandise on sale.
It seems that we had a 'bingo or bollox' strategy. The bingo being Champions League and the bollox being where we are now.
My own view is that the club failed to properly monitor and assess what was actually going on in terms of contracts / players wages etc [I mean come on, had any of them asked one of us if we would agree to sign Heskey and pay him 80K a week we would have laughed them out of the room!] you dont have to be a footballing genious to see that MoN was signing some real crap
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I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge.
I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions. I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win. Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.
I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us.
The population of the Bham conurbation is more like 3m than 2m, but yes, I see your point.
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I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge.
I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions. I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win. Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.
I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us.
People in the West Midlands just don't go to football as much as people in the North West or North East. I've no idea how I'd find my post but I did an analysis based on the average attendances of all league clubs in each area and the population of those areas. IIRC on average 3.5% of the West Midlands population went to a football match every fortnight, versus 4% in the North East and 4.5% in the North West. I'm sure Randy's advisors thought they could change that with the right marketing, etc as you said.
I don't remember seeing the analysis but lot's of people in the West Midlands go to Manchester to watch football, and I's suggest at least 30% of the Old Trafford crowd is made up of non-locals. Similarly Liverpool attract support from a wide catchment area.
Which is probably a fair point and not one I imagine Randy or his advisors realised before he bought the Villa.
I think that, be it through CL money, gate receipts or merchandise, they expected to grow the income of the club from the investment they made. Basically a speculate to accumulate strategy, which is what we often criticised Doug for not doing. We can argue the whys of it as much as we like, but ultimately this did not happen and so the spending had to be reigned in as it became clear the rewards would not be forthcoming.
Some will blame him for stopping, some for doing it wrong, but we shouldn't be blaming him for trying!
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They started building it and we didn't come, so they stopped building it.
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We did come, though, more than we had for a long time.
One of the big problems with how Randy's money was spent was that it didn't really involve many bums-on-seats players. The likes of Milner were excellent players, but nobody was going to come to the games just to watch him.
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I think that, be it through CL money, gate receipts or merchandise, they expected to grow the income of the club from the investment they made. Basically a speculate to accumulate strategy, which is what we often criticised Doug for not doing. We can argue the whys of it as much as we like, but ultimately this did not happen and so the spending had to be reigned in as it became clear the rewards would not be forthcoming.
That's a naive way for them to look at it, though.
They should have had a look at what long term financial impact CL qualification had for Everton - nothing.
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We came in increased numbers, but not to the extent they thought we would. The general's comment about "Four thousand empty seats, what more can we do?" was a very pertinent one although we didn't realise it at the time.
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I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge.
I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions. I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win. Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.
I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us.
In the Premier League era (and it is an important distinction in terms of money and general wealth) how many years have SHA, Smethwick and Wolves played in the Premir League compared to us. I'd be surprised if the other three in total add up to ours.
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I'd class Young and Carew as 'bums on seats players', as was Gabby when he first broke into the side.
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I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge.
I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions. I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win. Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.
I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us.
In the Premier League era (and it is an important distinction in terms of money and general wealth) how many years have SHA, Smethwick and Wolves played in the Premir League compared to us. I'd be surprised if the other three in total add up to ours.
Whether they do or they don't they still each have a comparatively large fanbase.
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I think that, be it through CL money, gate receipts or merchandise, they expected to grow the income of the club from the investment they made. Basically a speculate to accumulate strategy, which is what we often criticised Doug for not doing. We can argue the whys of it as much as we like, but ultimately this did not happen and so the spending had to be reigned in as it became clear the rewards would not be forthcoming.
That's a naive way for them to look at it, though.
They should have had a look at what long term financial impact CL qualification had for Everton - nothing.
I think their CL ambitions was more than one 4th place finish and then going out in the qualifying rounds.
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I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge.
I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions. I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win. Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.
I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us.
The population of the Bham conurbation is more like 3m than 2m, but yes, I see your point.
I expect Greater Manchester is smaller than that, and they have Man U, Man City, Wigan and Bolton, not to mention other clubs like Rochdale, Oldham, Stockport and Bury within striking disctance.
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I'd class Young and Carew as 'bums on seats players', as was Gabby when he first broke into the side.
Not forgetting Heskey, who was a bum on pitch player. And, not so long ago, Barry was a bum on two seats player.
I am bored.
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If you look at RL's tenure in terms of success or failure against a set of objectives then we could then judge if it has been a success or failure.
If the objective was to get Villa into the CL and to increase revenue's on the back it and at the same time to increase attendance on the back of the CL, leading onto an increase in the gate to 51K, then it has been a failure.
Although that puts us in a bad position at present it can rectified.
RL and PL need to steady the listing ship and bring on some balast to get us properly afloat again, at the moment we are holed below the waterline and appear to be adrift without the captain at the helm [I am trying to get in as many sailing cliches as possible] So we can only hope that RL is not doing a Captian Smith and and will take the avoiding measures necessary to miss the relegation iceberg that is on the horizon
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I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge.
I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions. I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win. Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.
I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us.
The population of the Bham conurbation is more like 3m than 2m, but yes, I see your point.
I expect Greater Manchester is smaller than that, and they have Man U, Man City, Wigan and Bolton, not to mention other clubs like Rochdale, Oldham, Stockport and Bury within striking disctance.
The population of the West Midlands is approxiamtely 5.6 million [so we get on average 0.53% of the population attend VP]
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Dave might have a point- if you take Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea and West Ham (at a stretch) as the top teams in the capital, then Greater Birmingham does compare well with our three.
The Blose would have a bigger fan base had they not changed their name from Small Heath.
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My own view is that the club failed to properly monitor and assess what was actually going on in terms of contracts / players wages etc [I mean come on, had any of them asked one of us if we would agree to sign Heskey and pay him 80K a week we would have laughed them out of the room!] you dont have to be a footballing genious to see that MoN was signing some real crap
This is one of the key points for me. We really needed somebody at the club with a football background to work with the board. It would have saved a lot of heartache, not to mention millions and avoided the mess we are now in. Whether MON would have accepted it though is another matter.
Which brings me on to the biggest problem, in MON we backed the wrong horse. Ideally we would have replaced him after a season or two and brought in somebody that could have used the money to actually build something sustainable. The House of MON was built on quicksand and it didn't take long before it started to sink.
The problem was it was Catch 22 for Randy. Can you imagine the reaction if he'd replaced MON after finishing 6th? Fans would have thought him crazy but in reality MON was never going to be the man to take the club forward even with investment. Neither he or his coaching staff were up to the job and as Paulie mentioned earlier, even if we had qualified for the Champions League, we'd have been knocked out faster than you can say "hoof".
One thing I'm sure Randy never thought, even to this day, was just how worthless most of MON's squad were in terms of resale. The fact we're still trying to shift some of them whilst still paying them stupid wages must make him wonder what the hell he was thinking. We can only hope he's learned from the experience whilst realising getting into the top six is now a hell of a lot harder than it was four or five years ago.
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They started building it and we didn't come, so they stopped building it.
I think the killer blow was the Man City takeover. If that hadn't happened we may not have lost Barry and Milner, and would have had a better chance of getting that all important Champions League place. That would have been the catalyst for bigger attendances and revenue.
In the summer of 2009 City spent £100 million, including buying our captain. Randy et al then realised that United, City and Chelsea were in a different league, and that realistically even if we kept spending there was no guarantee we'd ever finish above Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton all in one season so they had to assess the potential ramifications of continuing to spend and not actually improving revenue. Hence they pulled the plug.
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The objective may still be the same, we just have a cheaper and lengthier approach to acheive it.
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I'm glad other people are viewing it the same way as me, Dave's 'they built it and we didn't come' sums up a big part of it.
Look at the financial growth we had after Lerner arrived, there was a big increase in the first couple of years before it levelled out, which ties in perfectly with the results on the pitch.
We needed to break the big 4. Forget the comparison to Everton, they don't have the capital to back that achievement, if we'd got there in mons 3rd or 4th season things would be very different.
The bums on seats comment is important too, that falls under backing the wrong horse, mon just wasn't the manager the vast majority of people thought.
As for Risso's "how would we know" comment, how about because his friends in the press would start spouting sell-to-buy nonsense and he would strop off 5 days before the season started, you know, exactly how we knew when Lerner did put those restrictions in place.
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At the end of the day, the Lerner era has been a massive failure because over £200m has been spent, and yet we are fighting relegation for the third year in a row. I doubt he could sell the club if he wanted to too because the finances are so bad, and it's only the huge new TV deal which might go some way to rectifying the state of affairs. And even then we seem to be doing our best to go down so that we can't take full advantage of it.
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As for Risso's "how would we know" comment, how about because his friends in the press would start spouting sell-to-buy nonsense and he would strop off 5 days before the season started, you know, exactly how we knew when Lerner did put those restrictions in place.
He stropped off when he was told that he couldn't spend any more money at all (including the Milner cash) before moving on players, after years of being given an open cheque book. That is an entirely different scenario to being asked to stay within a reasonable and mutually agreed budget in the early years.
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The bums on seats comment is important too, that falls under backing the wrong horse, mon just wasn't the manager the vast majority of people thought.
just imagine what a BFR in his pomp would have done with the Randy takeover. We'd have put bums on seats then!!
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The bums on seats comment is important too, that falls under backing the wrong horse, mon just wasn't the manager the vast majority of people thought.
just imagine what a BFR in his pomp would have done with the Randy takeover. We'd have put bums on seats then!!
Don't.
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They started building it and we didn't come, so they stopped building it.
I think the killer blow was the Man City takeover. If that hadn't happened we may not have lost Barry and Milner, and would have had a better chance of getting that all important Champions League place. That would have been the catalyst for bigger attendances and revenue.
Only if you ignore the elephant in the room.
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The bums on seats comment is important too, that falls under backing the wrong horse, mon just wasn't the manager the vast majority of people thought.
just imagine what a BFR in his pomp would have done with the Randy takeover. We'd have put bums on seats then!!
Don't.
God, if only.....even Brian Little.
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The bums on seats comment is important too, that falls under backing the wrong horse, mon just wasn't the manager the vast majority of people thought.
just imagine what a BFR in his pomp would have done with the Randy takeover. We'd have put bums on seats then!!
Unfortunately, the BFR era proves that even when the team is winning trophies and playing the best possible football, the crowds just don't turn up to watch Villa.
Check the stats, if you don't believe it.
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As for Risso's "how would we know" comment, how about because his friends in the press would start spouting sell-to-buy nonsense and he would strop off 5 days before the season started, you know, exactly how we knew when Lerner did put those restrictions in place.
He stropped off when he was told that he couldn't spend any more money at all (including the Milner cash) before moving on players, after years of being given an open cheque book. That is an entirely different scenario to being asked to stay within a reasonable and mutually agreed budget in the early years.
Again, you have no knowledge that those limits weren't in place. Look at the increase in turnover and improvement in results over his first 2 years, I think it's fairly clear that they planned for that increase to continue, not to plateau out so quickly. In hindsight that was clearly the wrong decision and it now looks like a huge error but at the time he was doing exactly what the fans wanted.
As for spending the milner cash, we didn't need to as such, we got a direct replacement as part of the deal. That's turned out to be an overrated pile of turd is again using hindsight to judge things. At the time there were plenty of people who thought we'd got a player who was just as good and got a sack of money as well. The rule was that we had a big enough squad but it wasn't being used correctly so he could only add bodies as replacements, not just keep stacking more on top.
From a pure player transaction point of view we've replaced the players we've sold, we've just not replaced them well, that's not lerners fault unless you want him dictating who the manager can sign.
Barry - replaced by Downing, allowing Milner to move central
Milner - replaced by Ireland
Young - replaced by Bent before he left allowing Gabby to move left
Downing - replaced by Nzogbia
As a fanbase the only 1 of those I can imagine wasn't seen as at least a reasonable replacement was Bent for Young, mainly because they played such different roles.
Where we haven't replaced at all was with the squad filler (like sidwell and NRC) who technically have been replaced from the reserves, but surely producing players to bulk out the squad is the purpose of the reserves. They don't look good enough because the big profile replacements have turned out to be shit compared to what we had before.
If Ireland and Nzogbia were playing well and Bent was scoring we'd be fine and comfortably mid table, the first 2 being shit and as a consequence the 3rd offering nothing are main reasons for us failing.
Losing our captain, and main focal point in midfield to serious illness is the final piece in that unpleasant jigsaw, for which no one can be blamed, that is just a terrible thing to have happen that cannot be accounted for in any way.
Randy is far from perfect, but he's better than the vast majority of chairmen, he had the balls to gamble but, bad news for us, he lost. He made some poor decisions whilst trying to recover but any gambler knows just after a big loss isn't the time for making important decisions.
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I'm glad other people are viewing it the same way as me, Dave's 'they built it and we didn't come' sums up a big part of it.
They didn't really build anything new though did they? We'd been well used to 6th placed finishes for a good portion of the Premier League, even including David O'Leary, so it was only probably seen as a return to that level. A welcome return of course, but nothing over and above what was still reasonably fresh in people's memories. And certainly nowhere near as good as or exciting as the Atkinson/Little years.
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As for Risso's "how would we know" comment, how about because his friends in the press would start spouting sell-to-buy nonsense and he would strop off 5 days before the season started, you know, exactly how we knew when Lerner did put those restrictions in place.
He stropped off when he was told that he couldn't spend any more money at all (including the Milner cash) before moving on players, after years of being given an open cheque book. That is an entirely different scenario to being asked to stay within a reasonable and mutually agreed budget in the early years.
Again, you have no knowledge that those limits weren't in place. Look at the increase in turnover and improvement in results over his first 2 years, I think it's fairly clear that they planned for that increase to continue, not to plateau out so quickly. In hindsight that was clearly the wrong decision and it now looks like a huge error but at the time he was doing exactly what the fans wanted.
Actually I was told by somebody very well connected to the club that that was indeed the problem. And as you say further down, he gambled, which without wishing to turn this into a semantic argument is a different strategy to sensible and planned investment.
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The fans wanted a gambler, not someone living within their means, we'd had that for years and were fed up with the limitations of that approach. The majority wanted an american abramovich and he tried to be just that.
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The fans wanted a gambler, not someone living within their means, we'd had that for years and were fed up with the limitations of that approach. The majority wanted an american abramovich and he tried to be just that.
You're tying yourself up in knots now. Either we set sensible spending limits or he tried to be an Abramovitch, the two things are poles apart.
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The fans wanted a gambler, not someone living within their means, we'd had that for years and were fed up with the limitations of that approach. The majority wanted an american abramovich and he tried to be just that.
You're tying yourself up in knots now. Either we set sensible spending limits or he tried to be an Abramovitch, the two things are poles apart.
I thought I read somewhere that Chelsea were looking to break even last year after all their crazy investment.
Edit: It appears they posted a (£1.4m) profit last year for the first time since Abramovich took over.
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I'm glad other people are viewing it the same way as me, Dave's 'they built it and we didn't come' sums up a big part of it.
They didn't really build anything new though did they? We'd been well used to 6th placed finishes for a good portion of the Premier League, even including David O'Leary, so it was only probably seen as a return to that level. A welcome return of course, but nothing over and above what was still reasonably fresh in people's memories. And certainly nowhere near as good as or exciting as the Atkinson/Little years.
We had 4 successive top half finishes prior to last season so there had clearly been an improvement. The biggest mistake Lerner made, imo, was the muddled thinking that replaced MON with first Houllier and then McLeish. What was needed was a steady hand to oversee the rebuilding and realignment of the wage structure for the changed circumstances. With the clear benefit of hindsight it's obvious that, for differing reasons, neither was wholly suited to the job and lurching from one extreme to the other was a mistake. I believe that with Lambert that has been rectified, but it's going to take more than half a season to fix what had gone before.
I understand that it's not something that comes naturally to all of us [ ;¬) ] but we are going to have to be patient while things are put back on an even keel.
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I'm glad other people are viewing it the same way as me, Dave's 'they built it and we didn't come' sums up a big part of it.
They didn't really build anything new though did they? We'd been well used to 6th placed finishes for a good portion of the Premier League, even including David O'Leary, so it was only probably seen as a return to that level. A welcome return of course, but nothing over and above what was still reasonably fresh in people's memories. And certainly nowhere near as good as or exciting as the Atkinson/Little years.
We had 4 successive top half finishes prior to last season so there had clearly been an improvement. The biggest mistake Lerner made, imo, was the muddled thinking that replaced MON with first Houllier and then McLeish. What was needed was a steady hand to oversee the rebuilding and realignment of the wage structure for the changed circumstances. With the clear benefit of hindsight it's obvious that, for differing reasons, neither was wholly suited to the job and lurching from one extreme to the other was a mistake. I believe that with Lambert that has been rectified, but it's going to take more than half a season to fix what had gone before.
I understand that it's not something that comes naturally to all of us [ ;¬) ] but we are going to have to be patient while things are put back on an even keel.
The danger is that if we go down, as is distinctly possible, that we won't ever get back on an even keel, or if we do it will be as a Championship level club for a few years.
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Newcastle came back stronger than before and whilst spending modest but smart money.
Its a financial kick in the bollocks for sure but hardly ruinous if you play your cards right.
Not that I think we'll go down of course but yes, it is a possibilty. It is for about 10 clubs for that matter.
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Newcastle came back stronger than before and whilst spending modest but smart money.
Its a financial kick in the bollocks for sure but hardly ruinous if you play your cards right.
Not that I think we'll go down of course but yes, it is a possibilty. It is for about 10 clubs for that matter.
Indeed. They did it without having relegation clauses in their player contracts either which meant they were paying Premier League wages in the Championship.
Relegation isn't the bullet through the head it was 10 years ago. The parachute payment is much more generous now than it used to be. There have actually been grumbles from the other clubs in the Championship complaining that it makes it much more difficult for non-relegated teams to get promoted because they can't compete with the parachute payments.
If it was a straight forward choice between the two, I'd rather we went down and came back up the following season much the stronger than spend the next three seasons battling against relegation. At least we might get more than 4 home wins a season!
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Newcastle came back stronger than before and whilst spending modest but smart money.
Its a financial kick in the bollocks for sure but hardly ruinous if you play your cards right.
Not that I think we'll go down of course but yes, it is a possibilty. It is for about 10 clubs for that matter.
Indeed. They did it without having relegation clauses in their player contracts either which meant they were paying Premier League wages in the Championship.
Relegation isn't the bullet through the head it was 10 years ago. The parachute payment is much more generous now than it used to be. There have actually been grumbles from the other clubs in the Championship complaining that it makes it much more difficult for non-relegated teams to get promoted because they can't compete with the parachute payments.
If it was a straight forward choice between the two, I'd rather we went down and came back up the following season much the stronger than spend the next three seasons battling against relegation. At least we might get more than 4 home wins a season!
Where are the 3 teams that were relegated from the PL last season? Nowhere near the top of the table. No, relegation would be a disaster for Villa.
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The fans wanted a gambler, not someone living within their means, we'd had that for years and were fed up with the limitations of that approach. The majority wanted an american abramovich and he tried to be just that.
You're tying yourself up in knots now. Either we set sensible spending limits or he tried to be an Abramovitch, the two things are poles apart.
Not in the slightest, even a gambler will have a limit of how long to stay in or how much good money to put after bad.
As I've said numerous times, the argument against Randy from yourslef and like minded people is that he went to far with the gamble, but I'd suggest that at least as many fans if not more would have been screaming a lot more if he'd closed his wallet sooner.
He's genuinely in a no win situation over this, purely because he was too nice and didn't kick mon out after the 2nd 6th place finish *which would've been the right time to do it as it turns out). The difference between Lerner and Abramovich is that abramovich is an arsehole who doesn't give a shit about anyone, and sees no issue with sacking the guy who led them to their biggest triumph in their history 6months later. I can't think of many owners who'd do that and I'm not sure I'd want someone that trigger happy at Villa.
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THe fans did not want a gambler, the fans just wanted no more Ellis and O leary type appointments,
RL could have pretty much said anything when he toook over, the fact that it wasnt Doug saying it was all that mattered.
we then had the MON verson of the emporers new clothes and most of people could not see it for what it wasnt
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Newcastle came back stronger than before and whilst spending modest but smart money.
Its a financial kick in the bollocks for sure but hardly ruinous if you play your cards right.
Not that I think we'll go down of course but yes, it is a possibilty. It is for about 10 clubs for that matter.
Indeed. They did it without having relegation clauses in their player contracts either which meant they were paying Premier League wages in the Championship.
Relegation isn't the bullet through the head it was 10 years ago. The parachute payment is much more generous now than it used to be. There have actually been grumbles from the other clubs in the Championship complaining that it makes it much more difficult for non-relegated teams to get promoted because they can't compete with the parachute payments.
If it was a straight forward choice between the two, I'd rather we went down and came back up the following season much the stronger than spend the next three sesons battling against relegation. At least we might get more than 4 home wins a season!
Where are the 3 teams that were relegated from the PL last season? Nowhere near the top of the table. No, relegation would be a disaster for Villa.
You do realise that the season doesn't finish at the end of December don't you because you're rather quick to draw conclusions on the relative success of seasons? Blackburn, despite being an utter shambles, are only 5 points off the playoffs. Let's see where the three of them finish come May as I daresay they'll all finish higher than they currently are.
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Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.
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Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.
That'd be my preferred option.
Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.
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My problem is with their "Plan". I'm assuming they have a plan, it could just be off the hoof like the MON years, but lets call it the "Phoenix from the ashes" plan
I imagine Lamberts and indeed TSM's remit was/is something like the following:
"Manager will overseea period of rationalisation/cutting wages/shifting big earners
while keeping us in the premiership. Manager to put emphasis on hunting out young relatively cheap players with potential to compliment our existing young players, resulting in a steady improvement in league placings as the players improve in the mid-long term"
Well i guess there's probably a few names still to dump, but part1 of the plan has worked. Squad-wise we're now of a similar quantity and quality as the relegation fodder. We're certainly playing as badly as the relegation candidates and to all intensive purposes we're Wigan with higher overheads. I don't know if Lambert can keep us up like that over the next 2 or three seasons but he's probably got as much chance as anyone bar miracle workers. i guess we'll find out.
Its "the rise from the ashes"bit that worries me. Sure i think some of the young players both bought and home-grown could become good players, maybe top 4 good but the majority of them? Nah. Not in the numbers to regularly get us in the best of the rest catagory and certainly not before the big clubs nick them. So basically short term, we're Wigan with a long term plan to become the next Everton. Hopefully Lambert is this managerial combination of Martinez and Moyes and the promised land of regular 6th-8th finishes will becomes possible.
Great.
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Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.
That'd be my preferred option.
Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.
Without wishing to piss on your bonfire, you do realise that the Spurs revival came about as a result of sacking their underperforming manager in October of that year? After he'd won them the League Cup as well. It's not about sticking with rubbish managers come what may, it's about appointing the right man, and I can't see anything that suggests Lambert is moving us in the right direction. Spurs haven't really looked back, although of course it does require the owner not to be a complete div as well.
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I don't get this gamble thing.Randy just isn't very clever.
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My problem is with their "Plan". I'm assuming they have a plan, it could just be off the hoof like the MON years, but lets call it the "Phoenix from the ashes" plan
I imagine Lamberts and indeed TSM's remit was/is something like the following:
"Manager will overseea period of rationalisation/cutting wages/shifting big earners
while keeping us in the premiership. Manager to put emphasis on hunting out young relatively cheap players with potential to compliment our existing young players, resulting in a steady improvement in league placings as the players improve in the mid-long term"
Well i guess there's probably a few names still to dump, but part1 of the plan has worked. Squad-wise we're now of a similar quantity and quality as the relegation fodder. We're certainly playing as badly as the relegation candidates and to all intensive purposes we're Wigan with higher overheads. I don't know if Lambert can keep us up like that over the next 2 or three seasons but he's probably got as much chance as anyone bar miracle workers. i guess we'll find out.
Its "the rise from the ashes"bit that worries me. Sure i think some of the young players both bought and home-grown could become good players, maybe top 4 good but the majority of them? Nah. Not in the numbers to regularly get us in the best of the rest catagory and certainly not before the big clubs nick them. So basically short term, we're Wigan with a long term plan to become the next Everton. Hopefully Lambert is this managerial combination of Martinez and Moyes and the promised land of regular 6th-8th finishes will becomes possible.
Great.
I don't think it's a case of fighting relegation for 2-3 years, but rather understanding that that it will take time to get these players to the required level of performance and consistency. Will we be in the same position this time next year? The relative success of the 'plan', should we be understanding it correctly, will be seen if we are not.
What is key is that the experienced players we bring it while we do this are the right ones. This summer it was Vlaar, Holman and KEA, who have in tern been good, decent and poor. I do think that PL experience is needed now, as those with it already in our squad have simply not delivered, so that might mean a few extra quid being needed this month.
Spurs is probably a better example and their 'plan' goes back to Martin Jol's time there. What is key, as you rightly point out, is keeping the better youngsters as they improve and start getting noticed. While Spurs lost a couple, they kept on track by replacing them, so we can't just abandon what we're trying to build if someone slaps £20m on the table for Benteke.
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Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?
Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably
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Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?
Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably
Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.
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Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?
Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably
Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.
We probably wouldn't but for injuries.
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Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?
Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably
Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.
I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.
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Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.
That'd be my preferred option.
Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.
There's no guarantee of anything. That's sport. But Newcastle held on to some of their better players but also trusted in a good manager with a young emerging squad as opposed to keeping the overpaid, underperforming chaff they had that was doing nothing for them but costing money and holding younger motivated players back. They also bought well.
And nobody is claiming relegation would be anything other than horrible. I'm certainly not.
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Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?
Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably
Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.
To be honest, what I like about the lower league signings is that they look less 'manufactured' than the academy products. In 'The Secret Footballer' book the author spends time on this point. Manufactured players from the top clubs have been coached from a very young age and lose some of the natural instinct whereas players who have worked their way up the hard way tend to have a bit more drive, hunger, heart and natural attributes.
I haven't explained myself very well but I think most of you will know what I am getting at. Delph, to me, looks like he came off a conveyor belt and so isn't brilliant at any one thing. Ashley Westwood on the other hand looks like a footballer who came through because he was good and worked hard.
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Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?
Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably
Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.
To be honest, what I like about the lower league signings is that they look less 'manufactured' than the academy products. In 'The Secret Footballer' book the author spends time on this point. Manufactured players from the top clubs have been coached from a very young age and lose some of the natural instinct whereas players who have worked their way up the hard way tend to have a bit more drive, hunger, heart and natural attributes.
I haven't explained myself very well but I think most of you will know what I am getting at. Delph, to me, looks like he came off a conveyor belt and so isn't brilliant at any one thing. Ashley Westwood on the other hand looks like a footballer who came through because he was good and worked hard.
Most of that comes from the fact that a lot of premier league teams concentrate on the physical aspects of the game in their youth systems, so it becomes all about pace, stamina and strength. Technical skills come later, which explains why so many players coming through in the UK system are so one footed, amongst other things.
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Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?
Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably
Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.
I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.
Who would be playing instead of Lowton and Bennett? Or Westwood?
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Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?
Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably
Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.
I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.
Who would be playing instead of Lowton and Bennett? Or Westwood?
Super Leg of Mutton.
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Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.
That'd be my preferred option.
Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.
There's no guarantee of anything. That's sport. But Newcastle held on to some of their better players but also trusted in a good manager
After Shearer had failed to keep them up, they appointed Hughton full time. Once he got them promoted, he was then ditched in favour of Pardew.
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I know all that. I mean they trusted Hughton with a young squad to do it and he did.
I also think they were harsh to get rid of him but that's another matter.
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THe fans did not want a gambler, the fans just wanted no more Ellis and O leary type appointments,
Agreed - most of the talk on here was about a much needed 5 year plan, involving improved marketing, stadium expansion, overseas scouting development as well as an investment in players.
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Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?
Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably
Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.
I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.
Who would be playing instead of Lowton and Bennett? Or Westwood?
It's not a case of 'instead of', but rather alongside and/or rotated with.
However, in answer I'd say KEA/Ireland for Westwood. The FBs is different as they needed changing, so that's more of a case of Lowton and Bennett playing with experienced CBs (Vlaar/Dunne) to help them and also a more experienced midfield infront of them.
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Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?
Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably
Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.
To be honest, what I like about the lower league signings is that they look less 'manufactured' than the academy products. In 'The Secret Footballer' book the author spends time on this point. Manufactured players from the top clubs have been coached from a very young age and lose some of the natural instinct whereas players who have worked their way up the hard way tend to have a bit more drive, hunger, heart and natural attributes.
I haven't explained myself very well but I think most of you will know what I am getting at. Delph, to me, looks like he came off a conveyor belt and so isn't brilliant at any one thing. Ashley Westwood on the other hand looks like a footballer who came through because he was good and worked hard.
Understand what you're saying but it flies in the face of the reality of world football, where Spain and Germany stand out with their success based on outstanding technical skills and methods of play based on a coaching philosophy embedded into their structure.
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Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?
Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably
Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.
I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.
Who would be playing instead of Lowton and Bennett? Or Westwood?
Indeed. Most of us agreed and indeed welcomed the idea of getting rid of paying highly paid reserves in favour of the youth team or young players with potential brought in. What we hadn't envisaged was they would be most of the 1st team. And to think i used to worry about not having an experienced right-back......
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Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?
Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably
Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.
I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.
Who would be playing instead of Lowton and Bennett? Or Westwood?
It's not a case of 'instead of', but rather alongside and/or rotated with.
However, in answer I'd say KEA/Ireland for Westwood. The FBs is different as they needed changing, so that's more of a case of Lowton and Bennett playing with experienced CBs (Vlaar/Dunne) to help them and also a more experienced midfield infront of them.
You said "In their stead". The reason we've got so many young players in the squad is that Lambert chose to go into a new season with two out of three fit central defenders being Clark and Baker, and he then replaced Warnock and Hutton with Lowton and Bennett. The only experienced midfielder he bought was KEA, and he has turned out to be massively shit, and was always going to be away in January anyhow. Lately he's chosen to keep Ireland and Holman on the bench, so the number of kids playing due to injuries just doesn't wash as an excuse I'm afraid. Likewise, even before he was injured, Bent was left out in favour of Benteke and/or Weimann.
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Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?
Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably
Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.
I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.
Who would be playing instead of Lowton and Bennett? Or Westwood?
It's not a case of 'instead of', but rather alongside and/or rotated with.
However, in answer I'd say KEA/Ireland for Westwood. The FBs is different as they needed changing, so that's more of a case of Lowton and Bennett playing with experienced CBs (Vlaar/Dunne) to help them and also a more experienced midfield infront of them.
You said "In their stead". The reason we've got so many young players in the squad is that Lambert chose to go into a new season with two out of three fit central defenders being Clark and Baker, and he then replaced Warnock and Hutton with Lowton and Bennett. The only experienced midfielder he bought was KEA, and he has turned out to be massively shit, and was always going to be away in January anyhow. Lately he's chosen to keep Ireland and Holman on the bench, so the number of kids playing due to injuries just doesn't wash as an excuse I'm afraid. Likewise, even before he was injured, Bent was left out in favour of Benteke and/or Weimann.
A few points:-
1. Warnock and Hutton needed replaving, as you well know. As we couldn't shift them out, I'd imagine money was limited for their replacements. At least in Lowton he seems to have got that right.
2. KEA has not 'turned out to be massively shit', although he hasn't been as good as hoped yet, despite a promising start to his Villa career. Who's to say he won't be similar to Petrov, who turned out fine for us after a ropey first season?
3. It may not wash as an excuse for you, and your entitled to that opinion, but when the experienced players have been putting in performances like Ireland and N'Zogbia, I'm gonna forgive the manager for not playing them.
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A few points:-
1. Warnock and Hutton needed replaving, as you well know. As we couldn't shift them out, I'd imagine money was limited for their replacements. At least in Lowton he seems to have got that right.
2. KEA has not 'turned out to be massively shit', although he hasn't been as good as hoped yet, despite a promising start to his Villa career. Who's to say he won't be similar to Petrov, who turned out fine for us after a ropey first season?
3. It may not wash as an excuse for you, and your entitled to that opinion, but when the experienced players have been putting in performances like Ireland and N'Zogbia, I'm gonna forgive the manager for not playing them.
All of that is fine, but it does reinforce the opinion that the majority of the kids would be playing now, injury crisis or not.
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A few points:-
1. Warnock and Hutton needed replaving, as you well know. As we couldn't shift them out, I'd imagine money was limited for their replacements. At least in Lowton he seems to have got that right.
2. KEA has not 'turned out to be massively shit', although he hasn't been as good as hoped yet, despite a promising start to his Villa career. Who's to say he won't be similar to Petrov, who turned out fine for us after a ropey first season?
3. It may not wash as an excuse for you, and your entitled to that opinion, but when the experienced players have been putting in performances like Ireland and N'Zogbia, I'm gonna forgive the manager for not playing them.
All of that is fine, but it does reinforce the opinion that the majority of the kids would be playing now, injury crisis or not.
Majority? Possibly, but you stick a Vlaar and/or Dunne in the defence and things would tighten up and we'd gain some more organization. The likes of Lowton, Benteke, Weimann and Westwood deserve their place, so would and should be playing.
Just out of interest, what should he have done in the summer? The squad needed major surgery and from the perspective of both fees and wages, we did not have megabucks to spend. Had he bought an experienced CB and FB these players would not have been of all that high a level, given what we could attract and what we had to spend, and would probably have meant 3 or 4 of the younger signings we did make could not have happened!
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Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.
That'd be my preferred option.
Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.
Without wishing to piss on your bonfire, you do realise that the Spurs revival came about as a result of sacking their underperforming manager in October of that year? After he'd won them the League Cup as well. It's not about sticking with rubbish managers come what may, it's about appointing the right man, and I can't see anything that suggests Lambert is moving us in the right direction. Spurs haven't really looked back, although of course it does require the owner not to be a complete div as well.
I still believe we don't need to change the manager to have this revival, I'm confident Lambert is the man to do it. I can totally understand why after the start we have made and the very recent results you may think he is not up to it. Most of his signings are very good and will get better. He really does need to add some steel and experience now though.
The squad he has inherited was woeful and also the team have had no real influence since MON left. The input GH made just seemed to turn the squad against the management and AM seemed to only know how to try and defend, but we could not even do that.
Lambert is making mistakes I agree but injuries have not helped and again certain players we might expect to perform have not. However I'm sure he will turn this around and we will reap the benefits with his ways come next season. At times we have shown good spells and looked great but more consistency, back bone and confidence is most certainly required.
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Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.
That'd be my preferred option.
Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.
Without wishing to piss on your bonfire, you do realise that the Spurs revival came about as a result of sacking their underperforming manager in October of that year? After he'd won them the League Cup as well. It's not about sticking with rubbish managers come what may, it's about appointing the right man, and I can't see anything that suggests Lambert is moving us in the right direction. Spurs haven't really looked back, although of course it does require the owner not to be a complete div as well.
What has that got to do with my mention of Newcastle managing to bounce back?
I entirely understand the fact that Spurs managed to avoid relegation and turn things around by replacing the manager, but then again, I could give you plenty of examples of teams that went to shit when replacing their manager to try to stave off relegation.
Also, you said yourself - they replaced their manager in *October*
Seeing as we can't wind the clock back, we're faced with what to do about our manager in January. For all the thousands of words you've used to expound on your belief Lambert deserves the bullet, the best you can do as an alternative is Di Matteo, with the proviso he's been spending his time off scouting and preparing a list of transfer targets, and we can get him in toute de suite.
Honestly, you're all over the shop on this one.
I totally understand you're angry about things, and it hasn't passed me by that our league results have been dreadfully poor this season. you keep on telling us this as if we're supposed to have not noticed it or something, but beyond satisfying your blood lust, I honestly can't see what changing manager two days into the January transfer window is going to do to help us.
You've given him half a season. That's not nearly enough. in the next breath you'll be complaining about us not spending enough money, ignoring the fact that sacking Lambert would mean wasting yet more money on manager compensation.
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In the next breath you'll be complaining about us not spending enough money, ignoring the fact that sacking Lambert would mean wasting yet more money on manager compensation.
And you'll be telling us we'll be winning the title next season, and Lambert will be elected as President of the World and we'll have 2,000,000 sell out attendances every game, ignoring the fact that our ground doesn't *even* hold 2,000,000. That's be like, the entire population of the Birmingham conurbation you great dufus. FFS!
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In the next breath you'll be complaining about us not spending enough money, ignoring the fact that sacking Lambert would mean wasting yet more money on manager compensation.
And you'll be telling us we'll be winning the title next season, and Lambert will be elected as President of the World and we'll have 2,000,000 sell out attendances every game, ignoring the fact that our ground doesn't *even* hold 2,000,000. That's be like, the entire population of the Birmingham conurbation you great dufus. FFS!
But what he wrote is entirely consistent with the things you always moan about (and, Jesus, you can moan). What you wrote doesn't make any sense. Unless it was supposed to be funny. If so, well done for trying.
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In the next breath you'll be complaining about us not spending enough money, ignoring the fact that sacking Lambert would mean wasting yet more money on manager compensation.
And you'll be telling us we'll be winning the title next season, and Lambert will be elected as President of the World and we'll have 2,000,000 sell out attendances every game, ignoring the fact that our ground doesn't *even* hold 2,000,000. That's be like, the entire population of the Birmingham conurbation you great dufus. FFS!
But what he wrote is entirely consistent with the things you always moan about (and, Jesus, you can moan). What you wrote doesn't make any sense. Unless it was supposed to be funny. If so, well done for trying.
Two points:
1) Actually, I was pleasantly surprised by how much money Lerner made available to Lambert in the summer, and haven't once said that we didn't spend enough money. The statement was therefore, a straw man argument which is the reason I responded in kind.
2) You're seriously criticising another poster for trying to be funny? You who apparently thinks it's hilarious to post "I am a twat" every other post? Wow.
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I am a twat.
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Wibble.
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If he does not open his wallet in next week, or so, then we is cattle trucked!
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Asked for that, really.
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Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.
That'd be my preferred option.
Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.
Without wishing to piss on your bonfire, you do realise that the Spurs revival came about as a result of sacking their underperforming manager in October of that year? After he'd won them the League Cup as well. It's not about sticking with rubbish managers come what may, it's about appointing the right man, and I can't see anything that suggests Lambert is moving us in the right direction. Spurs haven't really looked back, although of course it does require the owner not to be a complete div as well.
What has that got to do with my mention of Newcastle managing to bounce back?
I entirely understand the fact that Spurs managed to avoid relegation and turn things around by replacing the manager, but then again, I could give you plenty of examples of teams that went to shit when replacing their manager to try to stave off relegation.
Also, you said yourself - they replaced their manager in *October*
Seeing as we can't wind the clock back, we're faced with what to do about our manager in January. For all the thousands of words you've used to expound on your belief Lambert deserves the bullet, the best you can do as an alternative is Di Matteo, with the proviso he's been spending his time off scouting and preparing a list of transfer targets, and we can get him in toute de suite.
Honestly, you're all over the shop on this one.
I totally understand you're angry about things, and it hasn't passed me by that our league results have been dreadfully poor this season. you keep on telling us this as if we're supposed to have not noticed it or something, but beyond satisfying your blood lust, I honestly can't see what changing manager two days into the January transfer window is going to do to help us.
You've given him half a season. That's not nearly enough. in the next breath you'll be complaining about us not spending enough money, ignoring the fact that sacking Lambert would mean wasting yet more money on manager compensation.
The post you quoted said "We could do what Spurs did" to which you replied "That would be my preferred option." I think it's entirely relevant that they replaced one under performing manager who was leading them towards relegation, with somebody better. Changing the manager would achieve the result of not having Paul Lambert in charge any more, which in my opinion is going to lead to us getting relegated, as he clearly cannot either motivate or organise the team very well, as the results to date indicate. People like you keep on going on about "seeing what he's trying to do" but what is that? I can see what someone like Rodgers is trying to achieve at Liverpool and he does seem to be making progress, but Lambert started badly, and has got progressively worse.
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Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.
That'd be my preferred option.
Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.
Without wishing to piss on your bonfire, you do realise that the Spurs revival came about as a result of sacking their underperforming manager in October of that year? After he'd won them the League Cup as well. It's not about sticking with rubbish managers come what may, it's about appointing the right man, and I can't see anything that suggests Lambert is moving us in the right direction. Spurs haven't really looked back, although of course it does require the owner not to be a complete div as well.
What has that got to do with my mention of Newcastle managing to bounce back?
I entirely understand the fact that Spurs managed to avoid relegation and turn things around by replacing the manager, but then again, I could give you plenty of examples of teams that went to shit when replacing their manager to try to stave off relegation.
Also, you said yourself - they replaced their manager in *October*
Seeing as we can't wind the clock back, we're faced with what to do about our manager in January. For all the thousands of words you've used to expound on your belief Lambert deserves the bullet, the best you can do as an alternative is Di Matteo, with the proviso he's been spending his time off scouting and preparing a list of transfer targets, and we can get him in toute de suite.
Honestly, you're all over the shop on this one.
I totally understand you're angry about things, and it hasn't passed me by that our league results have been dreadfully poor this season. you keep on telling us this as if we're supposed to have not noticed it or something, but beyond satisfying your blood lust, I honestly can't see what changing manager two days into the January transfer window is going to do to help us.
You've given him half a season. That's not nearly enough. in the next breath you'll be complaining about us not spending enough money, ignoring the fact that sacking Lambert would mean wasting yet more money on manager compensation.
The post you quoted said "We could do what Spurs did" to which you replied "That would be my preferred option." I think it's entirely relevant that they replaced one under performing manager who was leading them towards relegation, with somebody better. Changing the manager would achieve the result of not having Paul Lambert in charge any more, which in my opinion is going to lead to us getting relegated, as he clearly cannot either motivate or organise the team very well, as the results to date indicate. People like you keep on going on about "seeing what he's trying to do" but what is that? I can see what someone like Rodgers is trying to achieve at Liverpool and he does seem to be making progress, but Lambert started badly, and has got progressively worse.
I know your post was meant for someone else, but one of the downfalls of sacking Lambert now would mean we would have to cough up another few million in compensation which could have been spent on players. Also, who would we realistically get in to replace him? If it is a manager from another club, then that's likely to be another hefty pay out in compensation.
As for the point about Rodgers, he inherited a far stronger squad than Lambert did and look at some of the poor results he has been getting. A few horror shows aside, I think there has been progress at Villa this season, it's just that Lambert hasn't currently got the personnel to make significant strides forward and we have had some bad luck with injuries.
We can make a better assesment of Lambert after this transfer window, as it is pretty clear which areas of the team need to be addressed.
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Surely it's not lets blame the manager again?
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I look forward to the contributions of you both.
Feel free to use any of my posts, especially the ones about stupid Americans.
That's 280,000,000 of them. Can you narrow it down a bit please?
But is he right or is he wrong?
Have Lerner's decision's been stupid?
He is of course right. Lerner has made stupid decisions. Starting conflict with O'Neill at the wrong time. Allowing Faulkner to sell Barry, Milner and Young. Appointing Houllier and than McLeish. The correct decision was to appoint Lambert however he messed that up with the drastic change of direction. You can not do this in this League as rivals will eat you up and that is what's happening now.
So would you have rather let Barry & Young walk away for nothing 12mths later. It was clear they werent going to sign a new contract.
We kept Barry for and extra 12mths as it was, but due to the contracts running down of both, it was sell or let them leave on a Bosman!
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I look forward to the contributions of you both.
Feel free to use any of my posts, especially the ones about stupid Americans.
That's 280,000,000 of them. Can you narrow it down a bit please?
But is he right or is he wrong?
Have Lerner's decision's been stupid?
He is of course right. Lerner has made stupid decisions. Starting conflict with O'Neill at the wrong time. Allowing Faulkner to sell Barry, Milner and Young. Appointing Houllier and than McLeish. The correct decision was to appoint Lambert however he messed that up with the drastic change of direction. You can not do this in this League as rivals will eat you up and that is what's happening now.
So would you have rather let Barry & Young walk away for nothing 12mths later. It was clear they werent going to sign a new contract.
We kept Barry for and extra 12mths as it was, but due to the contracts running down of both, it was sell or let them leave on a Bosman!
Spot on.
If a player is determined to leave there's not much point keeping an unhappy player as well letting them go on a Bosman. The same with Cahill back along, MON had to let him go because he couldn't promise him regular first team football, although in hindsite, perhaps he should have.
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Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.
That'd be my preferred option.
Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.
Without wishing to piss on your bonfire, you do realise that the Spurs revival came about as a result of sacking their underperforming manager in October of that year? After he'd won them the League Cup as well. It's not about sticking with rubbish managers come what may, it's about appointing the right man, and I can't see anything that suggests Lambert is moving us in the right direction. Spurs haven't really looked back, although of course it does require the owner not to be a complete div as well.
What has that got to do with my mention of Newcastle managing to bounce back?
I entirely understand the fact that Spurs managed to avoid relegation and turn things around by replacing the manager, but then again, I could give you plenty of examples of teams that went to shit when replacing their manager to try to stave off relegation.
Also, you said yourself - they replaced their manager in *October*
Seeing as we can't wind the clock back, we're faced with what to do about our manager in January. For all the thousands of words you've used to expound on your belief Lambert deserves the bullet, the best you can do as an alternative is Di Matteo, with the proviso he's been spending his time off scouting and preparing a list of transfer targets, and we can get him in toute de suite.
Honestly, you're all over the shop on this one.
I totally understand you're angry about things, and it hasn't passed me by that our league results have been dreadfully poor this season. you keep on telling us this as if we're supposed to have not noticed it or something, but beyond satisfying your blood lust, I honestly can't see what changing manager two days into the January transfer window is going to do to help us.
You've given him half a season. That's not nearly enough. in the next breath you'll be complaining about us not spending enough money, ignoring the fact that sacking Lambert would mean wasting yet more money on manager compensation.
The post you quoted said "We could do what Spurs did" to which you replied "That would be my preferred option." I think it's entirely relevant that they replaced one under performing manager who was leading them towards relegation, with somebody better. Changing the manager would achieve the result of not having Paul Lambert in charge any more, which in my opinion is going to lead to us getting relegated, as he clearly cannot either motivate or organise the team very well, as the results to date indicate. People like you keep on going on about "seeing what he's trying to do" but what is that? I can see what someone like Rodgers is trying to achieve at Liverpool and he does seem to be making progress, but Lambert started badly, and has got progressively worse.
My preferred option was not to get relegated and to rebuild from there. I wasn't aware that was something only Spurs have managed to do. Like I said, you can point at Spurs and what they did, or you can point at far more clubs who changed their manager at this time of the season, and still got relegated.
What is he trying to do?
He's trying to get us passing the ball, giving it away less, and fighting hard to win the ball back when we don't have it.
You can't have seen Swansea (h), Arsenal (h), Norwich (COC), Man City (COC), Newcastle (a), Man U (h) if you haven't noticed us trying to do that (and succeeding at times).
We get your point, you don't like the manager, you (although it genuinely does seem to be only you) want him sacked ASAP, but it's hard to take you seriously when you start saying you can't see what he's trying to do, or even spot any signs of us playing well this season.
We've had a tough run of late. Some of us said that would be the case at the start of the season - a year of ups and downs - which is something else you tore into people about, but that's exactly the way it has turned out.
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All managers want to achieve those things though, surely (with the possible exception of the aforementioned McLeish, and maybe Pulis). How is that any different from what any of the other bottom team managers want to achieve, eg Martinez, Redknapp or Matt Lucas? The point is that he isn't doing any of it very well, and our average possession for the season is 44%, and in the last match it was a miserable 30%. Our pass success rate isn't very good either. In fact, other than Reading at home, I'm struggling to find a game where we've had the majority of the possession. About the one thing he's got right is the purchase of Benteke, as most of the teams in the bottom half have better possession and pass completion stats than us, but Benteke has made up for this with his goals.
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Has a club ever sacked a manager and paid him compensation before they'd even agreed the fee for compensating the club he came from?
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It isnt just Benteke. He's made other good signings. Lowton, Westwood, resigning Guzan..etc.
And there have been several games where we had the lions share of possession. Stoke, Reading, Norwich etc...
It just hasn't been happening more recently, possibly because we're missing some players.
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The thing I don't understand is some people seem to think he's interhited a top 6 squad and has taken us backwards. Everybody knew at the time that squad Spurs were underachieving massively and were in a false position. They just needed the right man in to turn them around which they did. With the quality of our squad I'd say we're around about where we should be, but to give the manager half a season to turn things around is complete madness imo. Some of his signings are about the only bright points in the squad at the moment.
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The thing I don't understand is some people seem to think he's interhited a top 6 squad and has taken us backwards. Everybody knew at the time that squad Spurs were underachieving massively and were in a false position. They just needed the right man in to turn them around which they did. With the quality of our squad I'd say we're around about where we should be, but to give the manager half a season to turn things around is complete madness imo. Some of his signings are about the only bright points in the squad at the moment.
I disagree, with the quality of the squad we've been able to choose from for large parts of the season, given injuries and attitude, then we're where we should be, but on paper the squad should be doing better, the senior players in the squad have all let us down for one reason or another this year, other than maybe Holman and Guzan but despite their age they're both inexperienced at playing in the premier league.
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He inherited a squad that even McLeish kept up, and then had £25m to spend on it. He hasn't been able to get the best out of Ireland, N'Zogbia, Gabby or Bent, when even McLeish got 9 goals out of Bent in 20 league appearances.
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He inherited a squad that even McLeish kept up, and then had £25m to spend on it. He hasn't been able to get the best out of Ireland, N'Zogbia, Gabby or Bent, when even McLeish got 9 goals out of Bent in 20 league appearances.
That's slightly disingenuous. How many of the squad from last season are actually available to him? Some left before he arrived, others have been injured and the captain is ill. It's a scratch team at he moment.
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He inherited a squad that even McLeish kept up, and then had £25m to spend on it. He hasn't been able to get the best out of Ireland, N'Zogbia, Gabby or Bent, when even McLeish got 9 goals out of Bent in 20 league appearances.
That's slightly disingenuous. How many of the squad from last season are actually available to him? Some left before he arrived, others have been injured and the captain is ill. It's a scratch team at he moment.
The following players were those from last season with more than 15 appearances:
Given
Bent
Collins
Dunne
Gabby
Hutton
Warnock
N'Zogbia
Petrov
Cuellar
Albrighton
Herd
Ireland
Of those, it was Lambert's decision to sell Collins, and to ditch Warnock and Hutton without giving them a chance to redeem themselves. Just about everybody else has been available to him except Petrov, who was never going to play this season of course, and was replaced by the woeful KEA.
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KEA was arguably our best player for the first month or two and is still adjusting to this league/.country/culture etc. Yes he's having a slump but I don't agree that he's woeful.
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I'm still of the opinion that he needs to be backed this window.
But if we get into February with the same amount of league wins on the board, it'll be harder to make excuses for him.
It's not just the losses recently, our goals for and against throughout the season has been poor. The 15 goals conceded in that mental 3 games grabs the headlines, but 4 shots on target from us throughout that period and the possession stats were/are a major concern.
The stats against Swansea weren't too hot either.
We can talk about long term plans/ style of play and all the rest of it. Those things are important.
But he needs to get results in the short-term too, to give him breathing space to bring about those longer term aims.
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KEA was arguably our best player for the first month or two and is still adjusting to this league/.country/culture etc. Yes he's having a slump but I don't agree that he's woeful.
Sorry I am in the, he is not very good, dont see how you could say he was arguably our best player, I havent seen anything from him that sugests he is anything above mediocre at best.
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KEA was arguably our best player for the first month or two and is still adjusting to this league/.country/culture etc. Yes he's having a slump but I don't agree that he's woeful.
Was he heck. When he and Delph played together, it was possibly the worst midfield pairing I've seen since Kinsella and Leonhardsen.
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I recall him being one of the few positives in the early season. He certainly wasn't woeful.
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He inherited a squad that even McLeish kept up, and then had £25m to spend on it. He hasn't been able to get the best out of Ireland, N'Zogbia, Gabby or Bent, when even McLeish got 9 goals out of Bent in 20 league appearances.
That's slightly disingenuous. How many of the squad from last season are actually available to him? Some left before he arrived, others have been injured and the captain is ill. It's a scratch team at he moment.
The following players were those from last season with more than 15 appearances:
Given
Bent
Collins
DunneO
Gabby
Hutton
Warnock
N'Zogbia
Petrov
Cuellar
Albrighton
Herd
Ireland
Of those, it was Lambert's decision to sell Collins, and to ditch Warnock and Hutton without giving them a chance to redeem themselves. Just about everybody else has been available to him except Petrov, who was never going to play this season of course, and was replaced by the woeful KEA.
Breaking down your list a little in defence of Lambert I'd argue that:-
Given, Warnock and Hutton have been replaced by better players.
Collins was trouble (and possibly already on his way, along with Cueller).
Petrol, Dunne, N'zog and Gabby have been injured for significant periods.
Herd has played, as has the basket case that is Ireland.
There's no clamour for Albrighton.....
All of which leaves Bent, who is admittedly limited, but offers enough to walk into virtually every other team in the league outside the top six.
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He inherited a squad that even McLeish kept up, and then had £25m to spend on it. He hasn't been able to get the best out of Ireland, N'Zogbia, Gabby or Bent, when even McLeish got 9 goals out of Bent in 20 league appearances.
That's slightly disingenuous. How many of the squad from last season are actually available to him? Some left before he arrived, others have been injured and the captain is ill. It's a scratch team at he moment.
The following players were those from last season with more than 15 appearances:
Given
Bent
Collins
DunneO
Gabby
Hutton
Warnock
N'Zogbia
Petrov
Cuellar
Albrighton
Herd
Ireland
Of those, it was Lambert's decision to sell Collins, and to ditch Warnock and Hutton without giving them a chance to redeem themselves. Just about everybody else has been available to him except Petrov, who was never going to play this season of course, and was replaced by the woeful KEA.
Breaking down your list a little in defence of Lambert I'd argue that:-
Given, Warnock and Hutton have been replaced by better players.
Collins was trouble (and possibly already on his way, along with Cueller).
Petrol, Dunne, N'zog and Gabby have been injured for significant periods.
Herd has played, as has the basket case that is Ireland.
There's no clamour for Albrighton.....
All of which leaves Bent, who is admittedly limited, but offers enough to walk into virtually every other team in the league outside the top six.
Added to that the fact that Albrighton has also been out injured, as has Bent, the defence has had to be changed in-game frequently due to injuries, (something like six games running), so theres been little chance of solid defensive partnerships forming.
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He has now taken this club to a level where we are embaressed by a 4th division outfit having been horse whipped in the Premier League 3 times in a row.
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To be fair he could give Lambert £30 million, but if he spends it on kids who some clearly aren't good enough then we're doomed anyway. Lerner has fucked up massively, but it's not 100% his responsibility.
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To be fair he could give Lambert £30 million, but if he spends it on kids who some clearly aren't good enough then we're doomed anyway. Lerner has fucked up massively, but it's not 100% his responsibility.
It is, he should at least have the bollocks to say something to us. He allowed MoN so spunk millions on shit, then sold our best players, then fucked up the managerial situation,
Fuck it he needs to sell up and fuck off....
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He has to give him the funds, otherwise we are fucked. Would a decent new manager (if we can get one) have time to get players in and get them playing better?
Bottom line, whoever the manager is, we need better players.
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Sell up to who though? it's easy saying that, I doubt we're a massively attractive option to purchase.
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To be fair he could give Lambert £30 million, but if he spends it on kids who some clearly aren't good enough then we're doomed anyway. Lerner has fucked up massively, but it's not 100% his responsibility.
Maybe just maybe Lambert got that money on condition he brought in players who'd demand less than 'x' amount of wages each week?
That's my reading of it.
his is Lerner's mess. Ok, so Lambert may turn out to be a bad appointment but who appointed him and who appointed TSM before him? Who has presided over an absolute mess whether MON(no long-term strategy just trust the manager with crazy money on journeymen looking for a pay day)/GH/TSM or Lambert was the manager?
We (mostly) loved the ride with MON but the chickens have come home to roost. I know Lerner's defenders will point out that I am criticising him for both spending too much and now for not spending enough. All I'm pointing out is that there is one common denominator. Managers have come and gone and Villa have slid rapidly because of poor leadership.
We wouldn't need to be cutting back so much now if we had shown a more balanced approach to our fiancnes all along. It's all a mess.
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It doesn't matter how much he gives Lambert if he's insisting on trimming the wage bill even more, because it's going to mean more lower league players, and that's no fucking use whatsoever.
Say what you like about Lerner, but as it stands, his stewardship is taking us down in the championship. To spend that much money and end up where we are now takes a special kind of cluelessness.
The bloke is fucking useless.
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To be fair he could give Lambert £30 million, but if he spends it on kids who some clearly aren't good enough then we're doomed anyway. Lerner has fucked up massively, but it's not 100% his responsibility.
Maybe just maybe Lambert got that money on condition he brought in players who'd demand less than 'x' amount of wages each week?
That's my reading of it.
his is Lerner's mess. Ok, so Lambert may turn out to be a bad appointment but who appointed him and who appointed TSM before him? Who has presided over an absolute mess whether MON(no long-term strategy just trust the manager with crazy money on journeymen looking for a pay day)/GH/TSM or Lambert was the manager?
We (mostly) loved the ride with MON but the chickens have come home to roost. I know Lerner's defenders will point out that I am criticising him for both spending too much and now for not spending enough. All I'm pointing out is that there is one common denominator. Managers have come and gone and Villa have slid rapidly because of poor leadership.
We wouldn't need to be cutting back so much now if we had shown a more balanced approach to our fiancnes all along. It's all a mess.
Spot on. Just hope he has some money to spend.
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I wonder what it will take to prove to Lerner that his experiment with lower league players has failed miserably? Relegation? That's where we're heading with this squad.
He has to spend this month or we're gone.
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It doesn't matter how much he gives Lambert if he's insisting on trimming the wage bill even more, because it's going to mean more lower league players, and that's no fucking use whatsoever.
Say what you like about Lerner, but as it stands, his stewardship is taking us down in the championship. To spend that much money and end up where we are now takes a special kind of cluelessness.
The bloke is fucking useless.
Shh.
(http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.3994686.5985/flat,550x550,075,f.jpg)
Isn't it pretty.
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It doesn't matter how much he gives Lambert if he's insisting on trimming the wage bill even more, because it's going to mean more lower league players, and that's no fucking use whatsoever.
Say what you like about Lerner, but as it stands, his stewardship is taking us down in the championship. To spend that much money and end up where we are now takes a special kind of cluelessness.
The bloke is fucking useless.
Oh I agree, but some responsibility needs to be put on the manager.
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It doesn't matter how much he gives Lambert if he's insisting on trimming the wage bill even more, because it's going to mean more lower league players, and that's no fucking use whatsoever.
Say what you like about Lerner, but as it stands, his stewardship is taking us down in the championship. To spend that much money and end up where we are now takes a special kind of cluelessness.
The bloke is fucking useless.
I hate to agree but its time he fucked off, sells up to someone who either knows about football or has bottomless pockets.
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It doesn't matter how much he gives Lambert if he's insisting on trimming the wage bill even more, because it's going to mean more lower league players, and that's no fucking use whatsoever.
Say what you like about Lerner, but as it stands, his stewardship is taking us down in the championship. To spend that much money and end up where we are now takes a special kind of cluelessness.
The bloke is fucking useless.
This.
The bloke is a fucking moron, he's running this club into the ground.
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It doesn't matter how much he gives Lambert if he's insisting on trimming the wage bill even more, because it's going to mean more lower league players, and that's no fucking use whatsoever.
Say what you like about Lerner, but as it stands, his stewardship is taking us down in the championship. To spend that much money and end up where we are now takes a special kind of cluelessness.
The bloke is fucking useless.
Oh I agree, but some responsibility needs to be put on the manager.
Even a poor manager would have won that with a premiership quality squad, we are far from a premiership squad.
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It doesn't matter how much he gives Lambert if he's insisting on trimming the wage bill even more, because it's going to mean more lower league players, and that's no fucking use whatsoever.
Say what you like about Lerner, but as it stands, his stewardship is taking us down in the championship. To spend that much money and end up where we are now takes a special kind of cluelessness.
The bloke is fucking useless.
I hate to agree but its time he fucked off, sells up to someone who either knows about football or has bottomless pockets.
I wouldn't hold your hopes out on either of those. No buyer in their right sound mind would consider buying us in the state we are in.
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Quite pissed off.
Apparently now 4 managers have spent badly.
MON, GH, TSM and now PL.
The poor guy can't seem to get it right.
I hear pep guardiola is looking to come into the Prremiership.
He'll probably spend badly as well.
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It doesn't matter how much he gives Lambert if he's insisting on trimming the wage bill even more, because it's going to mean more lower league players, and that's no fucking use whatsoever.
Say what you like about Lerner, but as it stands, his stewardship is taking us down in the championship. To spend that much money and end up where we are now takes a special kind of cluelessness.
The bloke is fucking useless.
I hate to agree but its time he fucked off, sells up to someone who either knows about football or has bottomless pockets.
I wouldn't hold your hopes out on either of those. No buyer in their right sound mind would consider buying us in the state we are in.
He needs to sell now because next year we will be worth fuck all
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It doesn't matter how much he gives Lambert if he's insisting on trimming the wage bill even more, because it's going to mean more lower league players, and that's no fucking use whatsoever.
Say what you like about Lerner, but as it stands, his stewardship is taking us down in the championship. To spend that much money and end up where we are now takes a special kind of cluelessness.
The bloke is fucking useless.
Oh I agree, but some responsibility needs to be put on the manager.
Yes, of course, but you can't put last year and the year before on this manager.
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It doesn't matter how much he gives Lambert if he's insisting on trimming the wage bill even more, because it's going to mean more lower league players, and that's no fucking use whatsoever.
Say what you like about Lerner, but as it stands, his stewardship is taking us down in the championship. To spend that much money and end up where we are now takes a special kind of cluelessness.
The bloke is fucking useless.
I hate to agree but its time he fucked off, sells up to someone who either knows about football or has bottomless pockets.
I wouldn't hold your hopes out on either of those. No buyer in their right sound mind would consider buying us in the state we are in.
He needs to sell now because next year we will be worth fuck all
He can want to sell us all he likes, but who's going to buy?
A new owner wouldn't have time to buy us and invest in the squad before the end of the month, I wouldn't have thought, so they'd have little impact on how we do for the rest of the season.
They may as well wait until the summer and see if we get relegated or not.
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Oh and it's patently obvious that Weimann apart the rest of the youngsters are squad players at best.
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I don't want him to sell us - you can't force someone to buy us.
I want him, if he can't be fucked to do it himself other than a game every three months and the odd email, to appoint someone with a brain - a proper grown up who knows what they're doing - to run the club for him, because it's looking like a disaster right now.
First, the inexplicable McLeish appointment - where was the continuity in that? Then the obssession with us becoming like Ajax, where you just use youth products and the odd cheap foreign league player, and hey ho, everything works out.
Truly clueless.
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I don't want him to sell us - you can't force someone to buy us.
I want him, if he can't be fucked to do it himself other than a game every three months and the odd email, to appoint someone with a brain - a proper grown up who knows what they're doing - to run the club for him, because it's looking like a disaster right now.
First, the inexplicable McLeish appointment - where was the continuity in that? Then the obssession with us becoming like Ajax, where you just use youth products and the odd cheap foreign league player, and hey ho, everything works out.
Truly clueless.
The Ajax thing rankles with me more than any other, as it is a piss poor attempt to hide a tacit policy of cost-cutting. This utter missingthepointitis is what needs to stop right now.
I don't want to hear another bloody sound-bite from the club. I want them to appoint a football man right now and make that man Steve Stride, because Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee know about as much about running a football club as my pet parakeet knows about quantum physics.
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I don't want him to sell us - you can't force someone to buy us.
I want him, if he can't be fucked to do it himself other than a game every three months and the odd email, to appoint someone with a brain - a proper grown up who knows what they're doing - to run the club for him, because it's looking like a disaster right now.
First, the inexplicable McLeish appointment - where was the continuity in that? Then the obssession with us becoming like Ajax, where you just use youth products and the odd cheap foreign league player, and hey ho, everything works out.
Truly clueless.
As ever, Paulie sums up my view better than I can. Lambert is far from blameless but Lerner really has been a special kind of idiot. After on paper getting everything right in the first few years (I emphasize the on paper bit of that) he and Faulkner have committed fuck up after fuck up for the past three years. As you say clueless.
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I don't want him to sell us - you can't force someone to buy us.
I want him, if he can't be fucked to do it himself other than a game every three months and the odd email, to appoint someone with a brain - a proper grown up who knows what they're doing - to run the club for him, because it's looking like a disaster right now.
First, the inexplicable McLeish appointment - where was the continuity in that? Then the obssession with us becoming like Ajax, where you just use youth products and the odd cheap foreign league player, and hey ho, everything works out.
Truly clueless.
The Ajax thing rankles with me more than any other, as it is a piss poor attempt to hide a tacit policy of cost-cutting. This utter missingthepointitis is what needs to stop right now.
I don't want to hear another bloody sound-bite from the club. I want them to appoint a football man right now and make that man Steve Stride, because Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee know about as much about running a football club as my pet parakeet knows about quantum physics.
The Ajax thing is flawed for so many reasons which are blatantly obvious to anyone who has even a passing knowledge of European football. i am sure Lerner has the best intentions, but he and Faulkner do not have the first clue.
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I don't want him to sell us - you can't force someone to buy us.
I want him, if he can't be fucked to do it himself other than a game every three months and the odd email, to appoint someone with a brain - a proper grown up who knows what they're doing - to run the club for him, because it's looking like a disaster right now.
First, the inexplicable McLeish appointment - where was the continuity in that? Then the obssession with us becoming like Ajax, where you just use youth products and the odd cheap foreign league player, and hey ho, everything works out.
Truly clueless.
OK who?
Just remembering Bradford saw off Arsenal last round.
Pep?
Rather stick with Lambert, he's got to buy somebody.
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I don't want him to sell us - you can't force someone to buy us.
I want him, if he can't be fucked to do it himself other than a game every three months and the odd email, to appoint someone with a brain - a proper grown up who knows what they're doing - to run the club for him, because it's looking like a disaster right now.
First, the inexplicable McLeish appointment - where was the continuity in that? Then the obssession with us becoming like Ajax, where you just use youth products and the odd cheap foreign league player, and hey ho, everything works out.
Truly clueless.
OK who?
Just remembering Bradford saw off Arsenal last round.
Pep?
Rather stick with Lambert, he's got to buy somebody.
Get rid of Paul Faulkner and start again.
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I don't want him to sell us - you can't force someone to buy us.
I want him, if he can't be fucked to do it himself other than a game every three months and the odd email, to appoint someone with a brain - a proper grown up who knows what they're doing - to run the club for him, because it's looking like a disaster right now.
First, the inexplicable McLeish appointment - where was the continuity in that? Then the obssession with us becoming like Ajax, where you just use youth products and the odd cheap foreign league player, and hey ho, everything works out.
Truly clueless.
OK who?
Just remembering Bradford saw off Arsenal last round.
Pep?
Rather stick with Lambert, he's got to buy somebody.
I'm not talking about the team manager, I am talking about every level of "management" above him.
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Matching our wage bill to our revenues should see us slightly above mid-table, but this club has been so poorly managed in the last few years that our wage bill is being drained by players that aren't good enough. To keep hacking away at the wage bill in this state is leaving us with a squad that really isn't fit to compete in the Premier League.
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It is pretty obvious that Lerner does not have a clue, so expecting a bloke that does not have a clue to all of a sudden appoint some one that has a clue is asking a bit much.
Any manager would take this job, a three year contract paying several times more than most fan can expect to earn and the pre requisite you played a bit a football and sat through some power point presentations.
We are fucjed
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It is pretty obvious that Lerner does not have a clue, so expecting a bloke that does not have a clue to all of a sudden appoint some one that has a clue is asking a bit much.
Any manager would take this job, a three year contract paying several times more than most fan can expect to earn and the pre requisite you played a bit a football and sat through some power point presentations.
We are fucjed
If I bought an NFL club the first thing I would do is appoint someone with NFL experience.Not somebody who's only job since leaving uni was as a relationship manager at a bank.
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It is pretty obvious that Lerner does not have a clue, so expecting a bloke that does not have a clue to all of a sudden appoint some one that has a clue is asking a bit much.
Any manager would take this job, a three year contract paying several times more than most fan can expect to earn and the pre requisite you played a bit a football and sat through some power point presentations.
We are fucjed
If I bought an NFL club the first thing I would do is appoint someone with NFL experience.Not somebody who's only job since leaving uni was as a relationship manager at a bank.
Spot on.
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Difficult to see who Randy would appoint instead of PF. Last 3 managers he has appointed (since MON) have been very different from each other. I really think PL could still deliver, but tonight is a bit of a disappointment to put it mildly. However, the team/squad doesn't seem to have the requisite class or edge for sustained membership of the premier League, at the moment.
That's where the club really needs to have a secure presence.
I know that we are looking to have a roller-coaster ride this season, but unless Mr Faulkner can see some significant buys in the window for January (and I'm assuming Randy is in touch) then I would be reassessing PL's judgement of what is needed to survive, and PF's judgement in backing him.
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Don't rollercoasters go up as well as down?
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Don't rollercoasters go up as well as down?
not if they are claret and blue they don't
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It is pretty obvious that Lerner does not have a clue, so expecting a bloke that does not have a clue to all of a sudden appoint some one that has a clue is asking a bit much.
Any manager would take this job, a three year contract paying several times more than most fan can expect to earn and the pre requisite you played a bit a football and sat through some power point presentations.
We are fucjed
If I bought an NFL club the first thing I would do is appoint someone with NFL experience.Not somebody who's only job since leaving uni was as a relationship manager at a bank.
Spot on.
Which is truly frightening. So no surprise why we are in this mess
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To be fair he could give Lambert £30 million, but if he spends it on kids who some clearly aren't good enough then we're doomed anyway. Lerner has fucked up massively, but it's not 100% his responsibility.
Lerner won't sanction PL wages. That's why we have to look to the lower leagues. Lerner is 100% responsible for our decline over the last 3 years. Until he pulls his finger out we're fucked.
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To be fair he could give Lambert £30 million, but if he spends it on kids who some clearly aren't good enough then we're doomed anyway. Lerner has fucked up massively, but it's not 100% his responsibility.
Lerner won't sanction PL wages. That's why we have to look to the lower leagues. Lerner is 100% responsible for our decline over the last 3 years. Until he pulls his finger out we're fucked.
What are you talking about?! Lerner has absolutely nothing to do with footballing decisions, the way the club is ran or who makes up the team. He writes the checks, and that's it. He entrusted this team to Paul Faulkner and he is a total jackass. Not a football man, has never run a club before and doesn't know good from bad, right from wrong. He's and MBNA business product that is lost in the sauce.
Get him the fuck out already.
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To be fair he could give Lambert £30 million, but if he spends it on kids who some clearly aren't good enough then we're doomed anyway. Lerner has fucked up massively, but it's not 100% his responsibility.
Lerner won't sanction PL wages. That's why we have to look to the lower leagues. Lerner is 100% responsible for our decline over the last 3 years. Until he pulls his finger out we're fucked.
What are you talking about?! Lerner has absolutely nothing to do with footballing decisions, the way the club is ran or who makes up the team. He writes the checks, and that's it. He entrusted this team to Paul Faulkner and he is a total jackass. Not a football man, has never run a club before and doesn't know good from bad, right from wrong. He's and MBNA business product that is lost in the sauce.
Get him the fuck out already.
Er, the obvious retort to that is that he employs Paul Faulkner, so clearly he does have something to do with the way the club is run. He doesn't have to leave that absolute clown in charge, it's his club.
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Difficult to see who Randy would appoint instead of PF. Last 3 managers he has appointed (since MON) have been very different from each other. I really think PL could still deliver, but tonight is a bit of a disappointment to put it mildly. However, the team/squad doesn't seem to have the requisite class or edge for sustained membership of the premier League, at the moment.
That's where the club really needs to have a secure presence.
I know that we are looking to have a roller-coaster ride this season, but unless Mr Faulkner can see some significant buys in the window for January (and I'm assuming Randy is in touch) then I would be reassessing PL's judgement of what is needed to survive, and PF's judgement in backing him.
Try somebody who had been in football.Not somebody who worked at a bank.Mr Mainwaring worked at a bank and had ginger hair.We are Dad's Army in reverse.
We are Kids Army with an idiot in charge.
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To be fair he could give Lambert £30 million, but if he spends it on kids who some clearly aren't good enough then we're doomed anyway. Lerner has fucked up massively, but it's not 100% his responsibility.
Lerner won't sanction PL wages. That's why we have to look to the lower leagues. Lerner is 100% responsible for our decline over the last 3 years. Until he pulls his finger out we're fucked.
What are you talking about?! Lerner has absolutely nothing to do with footballing decisions, the way the club is ran or who makes up the team. He writes the checks, and that's it. He entrusted this team to Paul Faulkner and he is a total jackass. Not a football man, has never run a club before and doesn't know good from bad, right from wrong. He's and MBNA business product that is lost in the sauce.
Get him the fuck out already.
Er, the obvious retort to that is that he employs Paul Faulkner, so clearly he does have something to do with the way the club is run. He doesn't have to leave that absolute clown in charge, it's his club.
Quite.
Ultimately, he owns the club, he makes the decisions, the buck stops with him.
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Difficult to see who Randy would appoint instead of PF. Last 3 managers he has appointed (since MON) have been very different from each other. I really think PL could still deliver, but tonight is a bit of a disappointment to put it mildly. However, the team/squad doesn't seem to have the requisite class or edge for sustained membership of the premier League, at the moment.
That's where the club really needs to have a secure presence.
I know that we are looking to have a roller-coaster ride this season, but unless Mr Faulkner can see some significant buys in the window for January (and I'm assuming Randy is in touch) then I would be reassessing PL's judgement of what is needed to survive, and PF's judgement in backing him.
Try somebody who had been in football.
Well, quite. Who do you have in mind?
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Difficult to see who Randy would appoint instead of PF. Last 3 managers he has appointed (since MON) have been very different from each other. I really think PL could still deliver, but tonight is a bit of a disappointment to put it mildly. However, the team/squad doesn't seem to have the requisite class or edge for sustained membership of the premier League, at the moment.
That's where the club really needs to have a secure presence.
I know that we are looking to have a roller-coaster ride this season, but unless Mr Faulkner can see some significant buys in the window for January (and I'm assuming Randy is in touch) then I would be reassessing PL's judgement of what is needed to survive, and PF's judgement in backing him.
Try somebody who had been in football.
Well, quite. Who do you have in mind?
I don't know, but I do know that if I had a company I'd invested £200m in, I'd make damned sure I did know a bit about it before choosing someone.
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For all I know, PF does.
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Difficult to see who Randy would appoint instead of PF. Last 3 managers he has appointed (since MON) have been very different from each other. I really think PL could still deliver, but tonight is a bit of a disappointment to put it mildly. However, the team/squad doesn't seem to have the requisite class or edge for sustained membership of the premier League, at the moment.
That's where the club really needs to have a secure presence.
I know that we are looking to have a roller-coaster ride this season, but unless Mr Faulkner can see some significant buys in the window for January (and I'm assuming Randy is in touch) then I would be reassessing PL's judgement of what is needed to survive, and PF's judgement in backing him.
Try somebody who had been in football.
Well, quite. Who do you have in mind?
Off the top of my head and if the club insist on bringing the kids through then it has to be Dario Gradi.
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For all I know, PF does.
He might of played Eton Fives at Cambridge Uni,but it is not known as a hot bed of football.
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-faulkner/b/801/430
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Difficult to see who Randy would appoint instead of PF. Last 3 managers he has appointed (since MON) have been very different from each other. I really think PL could still deliver, but tonight is a bit of a disappointment to put it mildly. However, the team/squad doesn't seem to have the requisite class or edge for sustained membership of the premier League, at the moment.
That's where the club really needs to have a secure presence.
I know that we are looking to have a roller-coaster ride this season, but unless Mr Faulkner can see some significant buys in the window for January (and I'm assuming Randy is in touch) then I would be reassessing PL's judgement of what is needed to survive, and PF's judgement in backing him.
Try somebody who had been in football.
Well, quite. Who do you have in mind?
Off the top of my head and if the club insist on bringing the kids through then it has to be Dario Gradi.
Wonder if he would come? Maybe working with PF, who's been on a major learning curve!
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For all I know, PF does.
He might of played Eton Fives at Cambridge Uni,but it is not known as a hot bed of football.
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-faulkner/b/801/430
You look at that career history, and you do have to wonder how fucking brilliant someone would have to be to have made a jump like that from his MBNA job to his Villa job.
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Difficult to see who Randy would appoint instead of PF. Last 3 managers he has appointed (since MON) have been very different from each other. I really think PL could still deliver, but tonight is a bit of a disappointment to put it mildly. However, the team/squad doesn't seem to have the requisite class or edge for sustained membership of the premier League, at the moment.
That's where the club really needs to have a secure presence.
I know that we are looking to have a roller-coaster ride this season, but unless Mr Faulkner can see some significant buys in the window for January (and I'm assuming Randy is in touch) then I would be reassessing PL's judgement of what is needed to survive, and PF's judgement in backing him.
Try somebody who had been in football.
Well, quite. Who do you have in mind?
Off the top of my head and if the club insist on bringing the kids through then it has to be Dario Gradi.
Wonder if he would come? Maybe working with PF, who's been on a major learning curve!
Good shout that Louzie0
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I do find some of this criticism odd.
For years, we had a chairman that many felt stuck his nose into team affairs a little too much. Now we have a chairman that is happy to step back and let his staff take care of their assigned positions, and people don't like that either.
It seems to me that if the team plays well, the chairmans great, and if they lose the chairman's shit. Are things really that simple?
Really?
Aren't there two arguments here? Those that think Lerner is a poor chairman because they know what constitutes a good chairman and those that think Lerner is a poor chairman simply because he's not as rich as Sheik Mansour.
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To be fair he could give Lambert £30 million, but if he spends it on kids who some clearly aren't good enough then we're doomed anyway. Lerner has fucked up massively, but it's not 100% his responsibility.
Lerner won't sanction PL wages. That's why we have to look to the lower leagues. Lerner is 100% responsible for our decline over the last 3 years. Until he pulls his finger out we're fucked.
What are you talking about?! Lerner has absolutely nothing to do with footballing decisions, the way the club is ran or who makes up the team. He writes the checks, and that's it. He entrusted this team to Paul Faulkner and he is a total jackass. Not a football man, has never run a club before and doesn't know good from bad, right from wrong. He's and MBNA business product that is lost in the sauce.
Get him the fuck out already.
Lerner signs the cheques, but those cheques don't pay enough to sign PL standard players. That's why Lambert has looked to the lower leagues. You pack your team out with players from the lower leagues and that's where you'll end up.
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I do find some of this criticism odd.
For years, we had a chairman that many felt stuck his nose into team affairs a little too much. Now we have a chairman that is happy to step back and let his staff take care of their assigned positions, and people don't like that either.
It seems to me that if the team plays well, the chairmans great, and if they lose the chairman's shit. Are things really that simple?
Really?
Aren't there two arguments here? Those that think Lerner is a poor chairman because they know what constitutes a good chairman and those that think Lerner is a poor chairman simply because he's not as rich as Sheik Mansour.
After the past 3 years you have to admit there is a problem.Randy ask Faulkner to run the club.The club is on it's arse,who else would you blame?
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Don't agree club is on its arse.
After tonight it will look better.
Still like your idea about Dario Gradi, though!
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For all I know, PF does.
He might of played Eton Fives at Cambridge Uni,but it is not known as a hot bed of football.
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-faulkner/b/801/430
You look at that career history, and you do have to wonder how fucking brilliant someone would have to be to have made a jump like that from his MBNA job to his Villa job.
Brilliant is a word, or maybe arse licker of the century, I mean there is absoloutely nothing that would wualify him to be in charge of a Kwik Fit let alone a PL Football Club with a multi Million revenue stream. God Help us.
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I do find some of this criticism odd.
For years, we had a chairman that many felt stuck his nose into team affairs a little too much. Now we have a chairman that is happy to step back and let his staff take care of their assigned positions, and people don't like that either.
It seems to me that if the team plays well, the chairmans great, and if they lose the chairman's shit. Are things really that simple?
Really?
Aren't there two arguments here? Those that think Lerner is a poor chairman because they know what constitutes a good chairman and those that think Lerner is a poor chairman simply because he's not as rich as Sheik Mansour.
No he is a useless Chairman because he makes useless appointments.
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Don't agree club is on its arse.
After tonight it will look better.
Still like your idea about Dario Gradi, though!
More bothered about Saturday,lose that we are in deep trouble.
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Don't agree club is on its arse.
After tonight it will look better.
Still like your idea about Dario Gradi, though!
More bothered about Saturday,lose that we are in deep trouble.
we will
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I do find some of this criticism odd.
For years, we had a chairman that many felt stuck his nose into team affairs a little too much. Now we have a chairman that is happy to step back and let his staff take care of their assigned positions, and people don't like that either.
It seems to me that if the team plays well, the chairmans great, and if they lose the chairman's shit. Are things really that simple?
Really?
Aren't there two arguments here? Those that think Lerner is a poor chairman because they know what constitutes a good chairman and those that think Lerner is a poor chairman simply because he's not as rich as Sheik Mansour.
No he is a useless Chairman because he makes useless appointments.
How many did you disagree with ON THE DAY they were appointed?
We'll take McLeish as a given.
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Don't agree club is on its arse.
After tonight it will look better.
Still like your idea about Dario Gradi, though!
More bothered about Saturday,lose that we are in deep trouble.
we will
No we won't.
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I do find some of this criticism odd.
For years, we had a chairman that many felt stuck his nose into team affairs a little too much. Now we have a chairman that is happy to step back and let his staff take care of their assigned positions, and people don't like that either.
It seems to me that if the team plays well, the chairmans great, and if they lose the chairman's shit. Are things really that simple?
Really?
Aren't there two arguments here? Those that think Lerner is a poor chairman because they know what constitutes a good chairman and those that think Lerner is a poor chairman simply because he's not as rich as Sheik Mansour.
No he is a useless Chairman because he makes useless appointments.
How many did you disagree with ON THE DAY they were appointed?
We'll take McLeish as a given.
add Houlier and Faulkner,
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I do find some of this criticism odd.
For years, we had a chairman that many felt stuck his nose into team affairs a little too much. Now we have a chairman that is happy to step back and let his staff take care of their assigned positions, and people don't like that either.
It seems to me that if the team plays well, the chairmans great, and if they lose the chairman's shit. Are things really that simple?
Really?
Aren't there two arguments here? Those that think Lerner is a poor chairman because they know what constitutes a good chairman and those that think Lerner is a poor chairman simply because he's not as rich as Sheik Mansour.
No he is a useless Chairman because he makes useless appointments.
How many did you disagree with ON THE DAY they were appointed?
We'll take McLeish as a given.
Part of being a chairman/CEO is having a plan for when things go tit's up,RL/PF have no plan for when things go tit's up.
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I do find some of this criticism odd.
For years, we had a chairman that many felt stuck his nose into team affairs a little too much. Now we have a chairman that is happy to step back and let his staff take care of their assigned positions, and people don't like that either.
It seems to me that if the team plays well, the chairmans great, and if they lose the chairman's shit. Are things really that simple?
Really?
Aren't there two arguments here? Those that think Lerner is a poor chairman because they know what constitutes a good chairman and those that think Lerner is a poor chairman simply because he's not as rich as Sheik Mansour.
No he is a useless Chairman because he makes useless appointments.
How many did you disagree with ON THE DAY they were appointed?
We'll take McLeish as a given.
Part of being a chairman/CEO is having a plan for when things go tit's up,RL/PF have no plan for when things go tit's up.
How do you know, the transfer window's only just opened.
The roller coaster's up as well as down. It just happens tonight we've had a down. The next game will be back up again and there are players to be brought in (transfer thread) who will make a difference.
honest.
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That's a hell of a statement.
But again I would say there are two arguments. Tits up off the pitch and he will be wanting answers from Faulkner. Tits up on the pitch and I doubt he'd have too much to say other than to remind Lambert of his responsibilities.
In fact, surely the austerity measures we are facing are part of putting things right in terms of the club being self supportive.
And Hawkeye, if you knew who Paul Faulkner was on the day he took his position and you knew on that day he was unfit for that role , fair play to you.
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I do find some of this criticism odd.
For years, we had a chairman that many felt stuck his nose into team affairs a little too much. Now we have a chairman that is happy to step back and let his staff take care of their assigned positions, and people don't like that either.
It seems to me that if the team plays well, the chairmans great, and if they lose the chairman's shit. Are things really that simple?
Really?
Aren't there two arguments here? Those that think Lerner is a poor chairman because they know what constitutes a good chairman and those that think Lerner is a poor chairman simply because he's not as rich as Sheik Mansour.
No he is a useless Chairman because he makes useless appointments.
How many did you disagree with ON THE DAY they were appointed?
We'll take McLeish as a given.
Part of being a chairman/CEO is having a plan for when things go tit's up,RL/PF have no plan for when things go tit's up.
How do you know, the transfer window's only just opened.
The roller coaster's up as well as down. It just happens tonight we've had a down. The next game will be back up again and there are players to be brought in (transfer thread) who will make a difference.
honest.
We have had 3 years of one balls up after another,I admire your faith in the clowns but they haven't got a clue.
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That's a hell of a statement.
But again I would say there are two arguments. Tits up off the pitch and he will be wanting answers from Faulkner. Tits up on the pitch and I doubt he'd have too much to say other than to remind Lambert of his responsibilities.
In fact, surely the austerity measures we are facing are part of putting things right in terms of the club being self supportive.
And Hawkeye, if you knew who Paul Faulkner was on the day he took his position and you knew on that day he was unfit for that role , fair play to you.
We are making no money off the pitch,and are going backwards on it.At which point does the penny drop.
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Assume for a second, you are the Chairman. What's your magic solution?
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Assume for a second, you are the Chairman. What's your magic solution?
Cash. Cash for PL players, not lower league crap.
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Assume for a second, you are the Chairman. What's your magic solution?
Get somebody on the board who knows something about football.At the moment we have a bunch of bankers.
If PF is so good with money let him run that side of things,let a football man run the football side.
The board at the moment is a square peg in a round hole.
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Assume for a second, you are the Chairman. What's your magic solution?
Cash. Cash for PL players, not lower league crap.
I refer you to my earlier post re Sheik Mansour.
There isn't any more cash. Does that make Lerner a bad chairman?
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Assume for a second, you are the Chairman. What's your magic solution?
Cash. Cash for PL players, not lower league crap.
I refer you to my earlier post re Sheik Mansour.
There isn't any more cash. Does that make Lerner a bad chairman?
If he can't find the money to finance the team, yes.
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Assume for a second, you are the Chairman. What's your magic solution?
Cash. Cash for PL players, not lower league crap.
I refer you to my earlier post re Sheik Mansour.
There isn't any more cash. Does that make Lerner a bad chairman?
Spending money getting TSM does.We don't know the full amount but I bet it could of got player or two.Having to pay off MON could of got us a decent back four.
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To be fair he could give Lambert £30 million, but if he spends it on kids who some clearly aren't good enough then we're doomed anyway. Lerner has fucked up massively, but it's not 100% his responsibility.
Lerner won't sanction PL wages. That's why we have to look to the lower leagues. Lerner is 100% responsible for our decline over the last 3 years. Until he pulls his finger out we're fucked.
What are you talking about?! Lerner has absolutely nothing to do with footballing decisions, the way the club is ran or who makes up the team. He writes the checks, and that's it. He entrusted this team to Paul Faulkner and he is a total jackass. Not a football man, has never run a club before and doesn't know good from bad, right from wrong. He's and MBNA business product that is lost in the sauce.
Get him the fuck out already.
Er, the obvious retort to that is that he employs Paul Faulkner, so clearly he does have something to do with the way the club is run. He doesn't have to leave that absolute clown in charge, it's his club.
Quite.
Ultimately, he owns the club, he makes the decisions, the buck stops with him.
You guys still don't understand.
You have to see his Cleveland Browns model as it directly applies to this. He hired Mile Holmgren to do everything football. Recruit, hire, manage payroll, draft etc. Holmgren was the operating, keyword operating, CEO/GM. Randy just sat in his box and watched. Holmgren in his own right was a football genius, molding the Green Bay Packers into a disciplined and enviable organization. While Holmgren was in Cleveland Randy never interfered, never second guessed and just let the chips fell as they may.
Enter Paul Faulkner into the same exact scenario. He is the top of the food chain. Randy does not inject himself into club drama. He said it himself in the interview where he questioned, "Are sports teams just a rich man play toy?" He said that he employs footballing people to handle the football and has full faith in them.
Randy isn't there, so stop asking for his head. He has blind faith in his model that drove the (Revived in1999 after previously folding) Browns into the ground. The business plan works if you employ the right man, but Paul Faulkner IS NOT that man. He has no history in the game, can't kick a ball and is strictly a suit.
Randy eventually fired Holmgren and the people of Cleveland knew he was ashamed of himself because he never came close to any sort of success, with the exception of making the playoffs one time with Gradkowski. He had to jump ship because he just couldn't figure out how to steer it. Best of luck to Joe Banner in fixing that mess.
Paul Faulkner out, please. Oh, and some money too.
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So he wants to employ a 'footballing person to handle the football' how is the answer to that question a former Relationship Manager from a bank? If he genuinely believes that Faulkner is a 'footballing man' he's an even bigger buffoon than I thought.
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Still no Wiki page on Paul Faulkner after being CEO of one of the biggest teams in England for so long.
Anybody know what college Paul went to at Cambridge?
If it was Claire College it would explain a lot.
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his big mistake is not to keep Steve Stride or find a suitable replacement. If I had put in the money in Randy Lerner I would be a lot more involved and hand on chairman/owner. I would also have someone like Graham Taylor on board and 2 former players to use for consult. Steve Stride wouldn't let MON spend that much on wages.
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Assume for a second, you are the Chairman. What's your magic solution?
Cash. Cash for PL players, not lower league crap.
I refer you to my earlier post re Sheik Mansour.
There isn't any more cash. Does that make Lerner a bad chairman?
Spending money getting TSM does.We don't know the full amount but I bet it could of got player or two.Having to pay off MON could of got us a decent back four.
You'll get no argument from me on that one. Shocking choice. For all his faults, Doug Ellis would've known it was the wrong choice, because he understood football and our club so much better.
As for MON, who knows who was in the wrong, both sides of the dispute still haven't been revealed. But it always appeared from General K's posts, MON walked out on us unexpectedly and dropped us in the shit. Fair enough, he had his reasons, disagreements happen in all walks of life and every side will feel their opinion is legitimate. The point being, there isn't always necessarily a bad guy so I'm not sure you can say that one was all Lerners fault.
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Enter Paul Faulkner into the same exact scenario. He is the top of the food chain. Randy does not inject himself into club drama. He said it himself in the interview where he questioned, "Are sports teams just a rich man play toy?" He said that he employs footballing people to handle the football and has full faith in them.
Randy isn't there, so stop asking for his head. He has blind faith in his model that drove the (Revived in1999 after previously folding) Browns into the ground. The business plan works if you employ the right man, but Paul Faulkner IS NOT that man. He has no history in the game, can't kick a ball and is strictly a suit.
Err, fine, but Holmgren was a football man through and through, as you say, Faulkner is fucking clueless and had probably never seen a game before getting this job, after working for a credit card company.
Big difference.
You also can not divorce Randy from the appointments he makes, either. It just doesn't work that way.
As for sitting back and letting things unfold, without interfering, you think Randy had no input to issues like the wage bill? Or the McLeish appointment?
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Enter Paul Faulkner into the same exact scenario. He is the top of the food chain. Randy does not inject himself into club drama. He said it himself in the interview where he questioned, "Are sports teams just a rich man play toy?" He said that he employs footballing people to handle the football and has full faith in them.
Randy isn't there, so stop asking for his head. He has blind faith in his model that drove the (Revived in1999 after previously folding) Browns into the ground. The business plan works if you employ the right man, but Paul Faulkner IS NOT that man. He has no history in the game, can't kick a ball and is strictly a suit.
Err, fine, but Holmgren was a football man through and through, as you say, Faulkner is fucking clueless and had probably never seen a game before getting this job, after working for a credit card company.
Big difference.
You also can not divorce Randy from the appointments he makes, either. It just doesn't work that way.
As for sitting back and letting things unfold, without interfering, you think Randy had no input to issues like the wage bill? Or the McLeish appointment?
Quite. It was his jet movements that fist alerted people to the TSM and possible OGS appointments. To be fair, nothing that Villadelph says above makes a word of sense.
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The Holmgren analogy is partially correct - hiring a brilliant coach to be GM+ was a move akin to hiring Arsene Wenger as CEO.
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I'd also question how it is possible to absolve Randy of any blame and point at the Cleveland Browns as any sort of example, given the fact they're a joke of an unsuccessful club. Not unlike another club I can think of, in current weeks.
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This is all Lerner's fault. He hires, he fires. It's his baby.
Maybe not the specific performance last night as the players and Lambert are 100% on the nose for that one but to try and absolve Lerner from any of this is just madness.
The whole Proud History Bright Future bullshit (Copyright The General and where ever he works these days) the total, complete and utter lack of a plan, the over spending and then asterity measures that are akin to a 2nd division side, his horrendous record for appointing Managers (one with a well known heart condition who subsequently then had to leave inside a year with said condition, TSM need I say more) his total silence which borders on the disrespectful.
This is absolutely, completely Lerners fault as he's mismanaged us to this point today. it might take us years to recover from that buffoon.
Wish i'd never heard his fecking name.
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This is all Lerner's fault. He hires, he fires. It's his baby.
Maybe not the specific performance last night as the players and Lambert are 100% on the nose for that one but to try and absolve Lerner from any of this is just madness.
The whole Proud History Bright Future bullshit (Copyright The General and where ever he works these days) the total, complete and utter lack of a plan, the over spending and then asterity measures that are akin to a 2nd division side, his horrendous record for appointing Managers (one with a well known heart condition who subsequently then had to leave inside a year with said condition, TSM need I say more) his total silence which borders on the disrespectful.
This is absolutely, completely Lerners fault as he's mismanaged us to this point today. it might take us years to recover from that buffoon.
Wish i'd never heard his fecking name.
I'd like to find loads of things in there to disagree with, but I can't.
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Well if Lerner has any real interest in the club anymore then last night would have grabbed his attention. I daresay him and Faulkner were quite looking forward to the money a wembley visit would have generated for the club. In the big picture the league is much more important but if we don't get through i think there will be a serious re-assessment of Lambert's position
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This is all Lerner's fault. He hires, he fires. It's his baby.
Maybe not the specific performance last night as the players and Lambert are 100% on the nose for that one but to try and absolve Lerner from any of this is just madness.
The whole Proud History Bright Future bullshit (Copyright The General and where ever he works these days) the total, complete and utter lack of a plan, the over spending and then asterity measures that are akin to a 2nd division side, his horrendous record for appointing Managers (one with a well known heart condition who subsequently then had to leave inside a year with said condition, TSM need I say more) his total silence which borders on the disrespectful.
This is absolutely, completely Lerners fault as he's mismanaged us to this point today. it might take us years to recover from that buffoon.
Wish i'd never heard his fecking name.
I'd like to find loads of things in there to disagree with, but I can't.
Even the "I wish I'd never heard his name" bit?! ;)
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This is all Lerner's fault. He hires, he fires. It's his baby.
Maybe not the specific performance last night as the players and Lambert are 100% on the nose for that one but to try and absolve Lerner from any of this is just madness.
The whole Proud History Bright Future bullshit (Copyright The General and where ever he works these days) the total, complete and utter lack of a plan, the over spending and then asterity measures that are akin to a 2nd division side, his horrendous record for appointing Managers (one with a well known heart condition who subsequently then had to leave inside a year with said condition, TSM need I say more) his total silence which borders on the disrespectful.
This is absolutely, completely Lerners fault as he's mismanaged us to this point today. it might take us years to recover from that buffoon.
Wish i'd never heard his fecking name.
Yep, you're right. The man at the top ultimately carries the can.
So if he sacks Faulkner and Lambert, appoints Stride and Van Gaal and we finish top four next year is Lerner a good chairman again?
The point I'm trying to make is that we can all make poor decisions, managers make bad purchases and chairman get managerial choices wrong. How many times did Levy have to sack a manager before he ended up with Redknapp? Is he a crap chairman too? Or is he a genius because things are going well for them now?
One thing is for sure though, Mr Lerner really has to earn his corn over the next 12 months or so, his period of good grace is well and truly over.
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This is all Lerner's fault. He hires, he fires. It's his baby.
Maybe not the specific performance last night as the players and Lambert are 100% on the nose for that one but to try and absolve Lerner from any of this is just madness.
The whole Proud History Bright Future bullshit (Copyright The General and where ever he works these days) the total, complete and utter lack of a plan, the over spending and then asterity measures that are akin to a 2nd division side, his horrendous record for appointing Managers (one with a well known heart condition who subsequently then had to leave inside a year with said condition, TSM need I say more) his total silence which borders on the disrespectful.
This is absolutely, completely Lerners fault as he's mismanaged us to this point today. it might take us years to recover from that buffoon.
Wish i'd never heard his fecking name.
Yep, you're right. The man at the top ultimately carries the can.
So if he sacks Faulkner and Lambert, appoints Stride and Van Gaal and we finish top four next year is Lerner a good chairman again?
The point I'm trying to make is that we can all make poor decisions, managers make bad purchases and chairman get managerial choices wrong. How many times did Levy have to sack a manager before he ended up with Redknapp? Is he a crap chairman too? Or is he a genius because things are going well for them now?
One thing is for sure though, Mr Lerner really has to earn his corn over the next 12 months or so, his period of good grace is well and truly over.
12 months? He's got the rest of January.
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Can anybody see Lerner ever getting it right? People make mistakes but they usually learn from them. Things go bad at a football club like villa from time to time but they usually take their warning and move to correct things. In the Premier Leage era we've seen Everton and Spurs have close shaves and then look to address the problems. We ourselves have done this in 1995, 2003 and 2006.
This time we have let the slide continue. We haven't arrested it or more specifically the leadership at the club has not resolved to correct what was becoming an unacceptable situation. Last season we came so freaking close to the drop we should have made sure we brought in enough quality (as in 1995 for eg) to ensure it wouldn't happen again and that we should be building a platform again. They haven't and we are looking like certs for the drop after knocking on the door for a couple of years.
I wasn't around in 1986-87, an undoubted cock-up by Ellis, but the stakes this time are higher what with the new TV deal kicking in. That's why I think this cock-up that has been unfolding before our eyes since August 2010 is of a far bigger magnitude.
If we go down, we have to hope we do a Newcastle but I'm not sure we could. Our squad is exceptionally poor and has not battle (something needed in the Championship).
As I said last night, this is Lerner's mess. He has appointed the managers, we can't keep turning on them. If he sacked Lambert who the heck would they turn to? I shudder at the thought of them having to appoint another manager with us in a precarious position. I don't want them appointing another manager until we are in a position where good managers want to join us as they can see potential again!
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Some people are unlucky in love. I think Mr Lerner is unlucky in Sport.
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Enter Paul Faulkner into the same exact scenario. He is the top of the food chain. Randy does not inject himself into club drama. He said it himself in the interview where he questioned, "Are sports teams just a rich man play toy?" He said that he employs footballing people to handle the football and has full faith in them.
Randy isn't there, so stop asking for his head. He has blind faith in his model that drove the (Revived in1999 after previously folding) Browns into the ground. The business plan works if you employ the right man, but Paul Faulkner IS NOT that man. He has no history in the game, can't kick a ball and is strictly a suit.
Err, fine, but Holmgren was a football man through and through, as you say, Faulkner is fucking clueless and had probably never seen a game before getting this job, after working for a credit card company.
Big difference.
You also can not divorce Randy from the appointments he makes, either. It just doesn't work that way.
As for sitting back and letting things unfold, without interfering, you think Randy had no input to issues like the wage bill? Or the McLeish appointment?
Quite. It was his jet movements that fist alerted people to the TSM and possible OGS appointments. To be fair, nothing that Villadelph says above makes a word of sense.
It's a shame you can't see it. This is the same exact recycled disaster that happened in Cleveland. Whether you want to believe it or not doesn't matter, it's identical to a tee.
What exactly did I say that doesn't make a word of sense..?
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Some people are unlucky in love. I think Mr Lerner is unlucky in Sport.
Unlucky meaning 'shit' in this instance.
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I'm not for 1 minute defending MON but if Randy Lerner had laid out his vison that's coming to fruition right now, can you blame him for walking away from the train wreck?
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Some people are unlucky in love. I think Mr Lerner is unlucky in Sport.
Unlucky meaning 'shit' in this instance.
I bet you wish you were part of admin and could implement a word filter right now
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I'm not for 1 minute defending MON but if Randy Lerner had laid out his vison that's coming to fruition right now, can you blame him for walking away from the train wreck?
One that he was largely responsible for causing? Well I'll blame him for that at least.
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I'm not for 1 minute defending MON but if Randy Lerner had laid out his vison that's coming to fruition right now, can you blame him for walking away from the train wreck?
One that he was largely responsible for causing? Well I'll blame him for that at least.
True enough.
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I'm not for 1 minute defending MON but if Randy Lerner had laid out his vison that's coming to fruition right now, can you blame him for walking away from the train wreck?
It's been said a thousand times O'Neill walked purely to protect his reputation because he'd been told the piggy bank was empty. That may or may not be true, but the accepted version of events is that Lerner made it clear the club had to be run self-sufficiently.
Call it a 'vision' if you want but it makes perfect sense as a business model. Bad news for those that wanted to be keeping up with the Ambramovichs but is it a fair criticism?
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I have no doubt about the need to be self sufficient or about how & who led us down this path, Lerners breed of self suffiecient seems to be subsistence, it isn't working.
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it seems to me that Randy has actually been pretty benevolent with funds but I am the first to admit I don't understand the machinations of football finace. Is it possible to quantify exactly how much he personally has put in, including the purchase price, since 2006 and how much has come back to him? Is he really Scrooge incarnate? Lots of shortcomings as a businessman and owner but surely a lot of clubs would be happy with him as their owner?
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I'm not for 1 minute defending MON but if Randy Lerner had laid out his vison that's coming to fruition right now, can you blame him for walking away from the train wreck?
It's been said a thousand times O'Neill walked purely to protect his reputation because he'd been told the piggy bank was empty. That may or may not be true, but the accepted version of events is that Lerner made it clear the club had to be run self-sufficiently.
Call it a 'vision' if you want but it makes perfect sense as a business model. Bad news for those that wanted to be keeping up with the Ambramovichs but is it a fair criticism?
Everyone knows we have (or had) an issue with the wage bill representing a huge chunk of our total turnover.
Quite clearly, something had to be done about it. Nobody is really going to argue with that. We don't have endless money on tap.
The problem isn't that he wanted to fix it, it is that he's gone about fixing it way too quickly, and the pain it is inflicting has contributed in a large part to keeping us at the arse end of the table for the best part of three years.
It's like saying "the economy is fucked, we need to cut spending". All politicans will agree with that, but far from all will agree with the way (ie the speed and severity) with which the government are going about it.
I keep saying this, but it strikes me as glaringly obvious, but if you look at what we spent over the summer, the fees were a decent chunk of change. The players, though, all came from lower leagues or selling European leagues, and will therefore be on (comparatively) lower wages, thus easing the pressure on the wage bill. The club told us several times that the problem wasn't $$$ for transfer fees, it was the wage bill.
It is like having 300 quid to do the weekly shop, but having to spend it all at Aldi.
The long term damage it could do is huge. We could easily end up getting relegated, for starters. Then there's the damage this is doing to some of the young players. Some of those players are getting crucified week after week at the moment, and they've all been dumped in it together. Who in the dressing room stands up and lifts the side after some of these beatings we've taken?
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The very last sentence is the key bit. We don't have any leaders. The idea that you learn from defeats is fine, but only if you have people to help you put it in perspective and can drag you back up. We haven't got anyone doing that, the only player in the squad I'd even think of trying is Vlaar but with his ongoing injury we need more options.
Some of the younger players are like rabbits in the headlights at the minute.
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It's all very well saying bringing in younger lower league players is all part of Lambert's forward planning but what other choice does he have? In other words, it's not so much part of his plan as it is a restriction that's been imposed on him.
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It's all very well saying brining in younger lower league players is all part of Lambert's forward planning but what other choice does he have? In other words, it's not so much part of his plan as it is a restriction that's been imposed on him.
Which is probably why we haven't had the slightest sniff of a new signing since the window opened; we need quality, but it costs.
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it seems to me that Randy has actually been pretty benevolent with funds but I am the first to admit I don't understand the machinations of football finace. Is it possible to quantify exactly how much he personally has put in, including the purchase price, since 2006 and how much has come back to him? Is he really Scrooge incarnate? Lots of shortcomings as a businessman and owner but surely a lot of clubs would be happy with him as their owner?
To try and answer your question in the spirit it was probably intended, then common estimates on this site point to around £250m.
But ... Sorry to have a go at you, these sort of questions really piss me off.
Benevolence - usually means charitable activity/financial support. Let's make it clear, Lerner is no benefactor to AVFC. He bought the club as either a plaything or an investment. He has not 'put anything in' for others to use, he has funded his own interests. When he bought the club he forced through the purchase of all existing shares - either he wanted the toy all for himself or he thought there was money to be made. Either way it didn't fit with running some kind of charitable foundation.
As the club is now probably worth somewhere around £175-200m then his toy (or investment) has cost him £50m+.
I'm not that sure many (premiership) clubs would be happy to have Lerner as their owner. He hasn't got the personal wealth to compete with the big boys and their toys. He hasn't got the acumen himself or to appoint the right management team to run a club at a competitive level on a break even basis. Sooner or later something has to give (see last three seasons) - not many supporters want to see that happening to their club.
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It's not all about having more money to throw at it, it's about managing it properly when you have already thrown money at it.
That's where we have failed tragically, and that's where I'd like Randy to improve in the way he runs the club.
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It's not all about having more money to throw at it, it's about managing it properly when you have already thrown money at it.
That's where we have failed tragically, and that's where I'd like Randy to improve in the way he runs the club.
Agreed, but I don't know if he's even capable of doing that.
Villadelph(?) on here said he ran Cleveland Browns with same degree of blind loyalty to his CEO and general incompetence as he has shown here.
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I don't think he is, either. Which is partly why we are where we are.
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It's not all about having more money to throw at it, it's about managing it properly when you have already thrown money at it.
That's where we have failed tragically, and that's where I'd like Randy to improve in the way he runs the club.
It's symptomatic of Lerner's decision making isn't it, the lurching from one extreme to another. From O'Neill to Houllier to McLeish to Lambert; from paying over the odds for seemingly anyone and everyone, to turning the taps off, to spending a fair whack on untested youngsters. There's no method behind any of it. Lerner's approach seems to be dictated by whatever happens to be in front of his nose at any given point, i.e. firefighting rather than planning.
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It's not all about having more money to throw at it, it's about managing it properly when you have already thrown money at it.
That's where we have failed tragically, and that's where I'd like Randy to improve in the way he runs the club.
It's symptomatic of Lerner's decision making isn't it, the lurching from one extreme to another. From O'Neill to Houllier to McLeish to Lambert; from paying over the odds for seemingly anyone and everyone, to turning the taps off, to spending a fair whack on untested youngsters. There's no method behind any of it. Lerner's approach seems to be dictated by whatever happens to be in front of his nose at any given point, i.e. firefighting rather than planning.
Agreed entirely, very good summary.
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It's the slavish sticking to low wage players that I find hard to comprehend, especially as it looks like leading to our demise from the Premier League which will take a sledge hammer to our finances. I can appreciate the general point about having wages as a manageable proportion of turnover, but that should play a part of an overall sensible financial strategy. (The sort that should have been place under O'Neill, but hey...). Firstly, while it's all very admirable buying younger, hungry players, you don't always get value for money or any sort of resale value, see Curtis Davies and Fabian Delph as examples. Secondly, if Lambert is being forced to stick to a certain wage limit, this ignores the point that it's perfectly possible to get value for money from older, more expensive players. Lambert bought lots of youngsters obviously this summer, and spent say £23m. If instead of buying Bennett, Bowery and KEA all on say £20K each and paying £6m, if we'd bought one excellent defender for £8m and paid him £50K a week, would we be better off now, if we'd conceded far fewer goals? It's not a precise science of course and there's no guarantee of success, but there should be a degree of flexibility there rather than dogmatically sticking to an "only young players from lower leagues on £20K or less" policy.
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I agree with many points there, Riss. Given the hit the club would take on its income in the event of relegation, it's almost as if the club have decided to prepare for that with an extremely low wage structure.
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There seems to be a view that there's no middle ground between buying people like Joe Bennett or blowing £8m on the likes of Warnock that gets me.
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A Citeh fan said to me this morning - and it was meant with heartfelt sympathy - that he reckons that we are taking the position they've left vacant, i.e. the "big" club that whenever possible manages to fuck up and make itself a laughing stock.
In my prevailing mood I found the suggestion difficult to disagree with - and thought what a wonderful achievement by Randy and his team of incompetents.
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A Citeh fan said to me this morning - and it was meant with heartfelt sympathy - that he reckons that we are taking the position they've left vacant, i.e. the "big" club that whenever possible manages to fuck up and make itself a laughing stock.
In my prevailing mood I found the suggestion difficult to disagree with - and thought what a wonderful achievement by Randy and his team of incompetents.
I was talking to a Toony on Monday and before he even said hello he asked, "You know one of us is going down right..?" And then proceeded to say , "It wasn't that bad." But, I don't think we'd bounce right back up.
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Put your hand in your pocket Lerner, this team needs investment this month and if it doesn't get it it will go down. Then you miss out on the new TV deal and we'll be stuffed.
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Think it's time for Randy to go , he gave it his best but it's not been good enough.Lack of knowledge allowing wages to spiral and money to be wasted has now left as for thr 3rd season in a row looking like going down ..this time of all the three I fear the most.The recent defeats have shown up a team lacking in experiance .quality and confidence.
Still we wait around for players to help us and nothing has happened.This year I doubt we can hang on Soton and QPR are going to spend to stay up.I fear for the club and the disaster of going down.
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It’s all very well asking for Randy to pack his bags and leave, but who in the name of god would take over?
Let’s look at the facts. We are a middling Midlands club who lurch from one crisis to the next and whose fans are prone to turn on either the manager/players/board at any given point. Add to that the fact that, despite the investment of Randy and the optimism that abounded when he came, we have still struggled to fill the ground on a regular basis, despite being in a large catchment area and offering some of the most attractive ticket prices in the Premier League.
In addition, outside of the UK we are virtual unknowns to the average Johnny Foreigner. Citeh, at least had the benefit of sharing the city name with a world brand. Many of the colleagues, who I work with, have no clue as to where we play, let alone understand our history and the Dutch are normally pretty good with these things.
I’m as unhappy as the next man as to the state of the club right now, but Randy is not going anywhere currently and even if he was, I very much doubt there would be a line of suitors ready to snap us up.
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It’s all very well asking for Randy to pack his bags and leave, but who in the name of god would take over?
Let’s look at the facts. We are a middling Midlands club who lurch from one crisis to the next and whose fans are prone to turn on either the manager/players/board at any given point. Add to that the fact that, despite the investment of Randy and the optimism that abounded when he came, we have still struggled to fill the ground on a regular basis, despite being in a large catchment area and offering some of the most attractive ticket prices in the Premier League.
In addition, outside of the UK we are virtual unknowns to the average Johnny Foreigner. Citeh, at least had the benefit of sharing the city name with a world brand. Many of the colleagues, who I work with, have no clue as to where we play, let alone understand our history and the Dutch are normally pretty good with these things.
I’m as unhappy as the next man as to the state of the club right now, but Randy is not going anywhere currently and even if he was, I very much doubt there would be a line of suitors ready to snap us up.
I wouldn't put you in charge of our Marketing Team if we are looking for a new Chairman or Owner ;)
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Think it's time for Randy to go , he gave it his best but it's not been good enough.Lack of knowledge allowing wages to spiral and money to be wasted has now left as for thr 3rd season in a row looking like going down ..this time of all the three I fear the most.The recent defeats have shown up a team lacking in experiance .quality and confidence.
Still we wait around for players to help us and nothing has happened.This year I doubt we can hang on Soton and QPR are going to spend to stay up.I fear for the club and the disaster of going down.
For Randy to go where, though?
To do what? To sell up? What if nobody wants to buy it?
You can't force owners to go if there's nobody with the dough to buy the club.
I'd just like him to get his shit together, stop running the club by email, and stop making shit decisions which are just accelerating the demise of the club.
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Surely someone would want to buy though there are less clubs than us that have buyers wanting them , fuck with Blues have people interested.If no one does want the club then we really are in trouble
Like you I would like him to get his shit together but it seems like that just isn't going to happen.I can't see him suddenly becoming more hands on.
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Think it's time for Randy to go , he gave it his best but it's not been good enough.Lack of knowledge allowing wages to spiral and money to be wasted has now left as for thr 3rd season in a row looking like going down ..this time of all the three I fear the most.The recent defeats have shown up a team lacking in experiance .quality and confidence.
Still we wait around for players to help us and nothing has happened.This year I doubt we can hang on Soton and QPR are going to spend to stay up.I fear for the club and the disaster of going down.
For Randy to go where, though?
To do what? To sell up? What if nobody wants to buy it?
You can't force owners to go if there's nobody with the dough to buy the club.
I'd just like him to get his shit together, stop running the club by email, and stop making shit decisions which are just accelerating the demise of the club.
The trouble is, he's made such a godawful mess of the finances, that finding a buyer would be next to impossible. He paid £60m for a club with net assets of £26m. He's put £200m in, and we now have a club with net LIABILITIES of £20m, so how much do you think he'd get now? OK the future income streams should be higher (assuming we don't go down, which is a big assumption at this point), which is why he's probably embarked on this austerity drive. If we stay up, the TV money has doubled, so a buyer could be told that two to three years of Premier League revnu would make a big dent in our deficit. The trouble is, the policy has made the liklihood of staying up sketchy at best. He's the Premier League equivalent of George Osborne. The economy needs people to spend again, but Osborne's policies have meant that people are instead hanging on to what little money they have. Lerner needs us to stay up to start to improve the financial situation, but his policies are making that increasingly less likely. If we go down, it will absolutely knacker us if we don't come straight back up.
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Put your hand in your pocket Lerner, this team needs investment this month and if it doesn't get it it will go down. Then you miss out on the new TV deal and we'll be stuffed.
In a nutshell.
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It’s all very well asking for Randy to pack his bags and leave, but who in the name of god would take over?
Let’s look at the facts. We are a middling Midlands club who lurch from one crisis to the next and whose fans are prone to turn on either the manager/players/board at any given point. Add to that the fact that, despite the investment of Randy and the optimism that abounded when he came, we have still struggled to fill the ground on a regular basis, despite being in a large catchment area and offering some of the most attractive ticket prices in the Premier League.
In addition, outside of the UK we are virtual unknowns to the average Johnny Foreigner. Citeh, at least had the benefit of sharing the city name with a world brand. Many of the colleagues, who I work with, have no clue as to where we play, let alone understand our history and the Dutch are normally pretty good with these things.
I’m as unhappy as the next man as to the state of the club right now, but Randy is not going anywhere currently and even if he was, I very much doubt there would be a line of suitors ready to snap us up.
I find that reasonably derogatory.
Fine club with a fine infrastructure in UK's second city.
Proud history.
Best training facilities in the league.
Shit team and squad yes, but plenty of potential.
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Shit team and squad yes, but plenty of potential.
And loads of debt.
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Before Randy took over I was depressed and miserable. He's turned it all round, now i'm miserable and depressed.
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Ha!
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Before Randy took over I was depressed and miserable. He's turned it all round, now i'm miserable and depressed.
Its all our fault for falling for the bullshit.
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It’s all very well asking for Randy to pack his bags and leave, but who in the name of god would take over?
Let’s look at the facts. We are a middling Midlands club who lurch from one crisis to the next and whose fans are prone to turn on either the manager/players/board at any given point. Add to that the fact that, despite the investment of Randy and the optimism that abounded when he came, we have still struggled to fill the ground on a regular basis, despite being in a large catchment area and offering some of the most attractive ticket prices in the Premier League.
In addition, outside of the UK we are virtual unknowns to the average Johnny Foreigner. Citeh, at least had the benefit of sharing the city name with a world brand. Many of the colleagues, who I work with, have no clue as to where we play, let alone understand our history and the Dutch are normally pretty good with these things.
I’m as unhappy as the next man as to the state of the club right now, but Randy is not going anywhere currently and even if he was, I very much doubt there would be a line of suitors ready to snap us up.
I find that reasonably derogatory.
Fine club with a fine infrastructure in UK's second city.
Proud history.
Best training facilities in the league.
Shit team and squad yes, but plenty of potential.
As has oft been said, England's 2nd city is not exactly appealing to most foreigner investors, so I don't buy that argument and never have.
As regards the Proud History, I'm not denying that one iota, but there are plenty of clubs that can lay claim to that and I doubt the kind of investors that most Villa fans are calling fall will give two hoots about our status as the worlds first super club.
As much as I love our club, the reality is that in the short-sighted world of the modern game, we don't register a blip.
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Surely someone would want to buy though there are less clubs than us that have buyers wanting them , fuck with Blues have people interested.If no one does want the club then we really are in trouble
Yes, but just look at the sort of people being linked with Small Heath.
Or do you fancy a bit of Venky's?
Things are bad now, but believe me, they could be a whole lot worse.
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If Randy goes and there is no buyer we are in administration.
Be careful what you wish for.
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It’s all very well asking for Randy to pack his bags and leave, but who in the name of god would take over?
Let’s look at the facts. We are a middling Midlands club who lurch from one crisis to the next and whose fans are prone to turn on either the manager/players/board at any given point. Add to that the fact that, despite the investment of Randy and the optimism that abounded when he came, we have still struggled to fill the ground on a regular basis, despite being in a large catchment area and offering some of the most attractive ticket prices in the Premier League.
In addition, outside of the UK we are virtual unknowns to the average Johnny Foreigner. Citeh, at least had the benefit of sharing the city name with a world brand. Many of the colleagues, who I work with, have no clue as to where we play, let alone understand our history and the Dutch are normally pretty good with these things.
I’m as unhappy as the next man as to the state of the club right now, but Randy is not going anywhere currently and even if he was, I very much doubt there would be a line of suitors ready to snap us up.
I disagree.
Our image in the media is shocking and has been for years. This doesnt help, however we are still a huge football club with massive potential. People talk about the fact we struggled to fill the ground but I would suggest that whilst we were avergaign 40k for a couple of seasons, people were still waiting on us going to the next level in terms of signing star players. I beieve if MON ahd not fecked thing sup back in 08/09 and we had qualiified for the CL, then we may well have then invested in bigger name stars and now be sat with waiting lists to get season tickets.
Our biggest problem has always been a failure to take that next step. Whether it be under DOug or now Randy, we have been presented with the keys to the door on numerous ocassions but bottled it. UNtil someone has the wherwithal to take us to the enxt level then we will forever be an also ran.
But disagree that we dont have the potential or the fanbase to compare to all but Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal.
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If Randy goes and there is no buyer we are in administration.
Be careful what you wish for.
I don't think things are or will be as bad as that .
If he goes he will sell up but may have to take a big loss on his investment .
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Surely someone would want to buy though there are less clubs than us that have buyers wanting them , fuck with Blues have people interested.If no one does want the club then we really are in trouble
Yes, but just look at the sort of people being linked with Small Heath.
Or do you fancy a bit of Venky's?
Things are bad now, but believe me, they could be a whole lot worse.
We're doing a Venky's, just a bit more slowly. Hard to say who knows the least about football, that silly bint from Venky's who said she knew about football because she watched the World Cup, or Lerner.
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He needs to dip his hand in his pocket.
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He needs to dip his hand in his pocket.
Trouble is, he's got short arms and deep pockets...
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He needs to dip his hand in his pocket.
both hands in both pockets.
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The Villa have a fantastic heritage, one of the genuine institutions of English football, both Football League and Premier league founders, have a strong fan base averaging 40k recently, great ground and facilities and have experienced success at the highest levels.
And still we have not really fulfilled our 'potential' as a club.
They'll be plenty interested the day Randy decides to sell up - but it's his asking price that'll be the key.
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The Villa have a fantastic heritage, one of the genuine institutions of English football, both Football League and Premier league founders, have a strong fan base averaging 40k recently, great ground and facilities and have experienced success at the highest levels.
And still we have not really fulfilled our 'potential' as a club.
They'll be plenty interested the day Randy decides to sell up - but it's his asking price that'll be the key.
He should sell for less than he bought it for. He has no interest in us at all, same as the Browns, sell now lerner and get the fuck out of our club. Just my tattoed, loving the club, fed up point of view.Not Lamberts fault by the way, Lerner and Faulkener can go fuck my stick. UTV.
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The sad thing is if Lerner had given all that money to the right manager instead of MON we'd have at least the potential to be bigger than Citeh are now. The mistake we made was thinking Lerner would or could go again after Attempt No.1 failed. Dare i say it, if he'd been a bit more ruthless like Citeh or chelsea and chopped MON after 2 seasons we may have made it.
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So Randy has made us cut our costs, and assuming we avoid relegation, the amount of revenue from the tv deals increases significantly, therefore meaning more profitability. Lower wages and more income. Why would he sell now? Without doing anything the AVFC franchise will be worth more than ever before.
Deloitte top 20 baby!
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So Randy has made us cut our costs, and assuming we avoid relegation, the amount of revenue from the tv deals increases significantly, therefore meaning more profitability. Lower wages and more income. Why would he sell now? Without doing anything the AVFC franchise will be worth more than ever before.
Deloitte top 20 baby!
The only way we'll avoid relegation is by being brave and getting quality players in now. Failure to this and everything else gies out of the window.
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As long as Qatar remain without an English club, then there's a potential buyer for us. Like Abu Dhabi, they won't want to buy the finished article, because there's little challenge there. As a club and as a city, there is huge potential here, never mind what the national media tells you. And it would delight the likes of Qatar no end to acquire something with real pedigree and history (which they crave in the Gulf) and turn it into something that will put others' noses out of joint - just like Abu Dhabi did with Man City. Would we lose our soul? Yes. Is it better than what we've got? I'll leave that one up to you to answer.
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The sad thing is if Lerner had given all that money to the right manager instead of MON we'd have at least the potential to be bigger than Citeh are now. The mistake we made was thinking Lerner would or could go again after Attempt No.1 failed. Dare i say it, if he'd been a bit more ruthless like Citeh or chelsea and chopped MON after 2 seasons we may have made it.
Spot on!!
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Holte End Request:
Where's Randy Lerner,
We ask you, where's Randy Lerner?
Where Randy Leeeerner,
We ask you, where's Randy Lerner?
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As long as Qatar remain without an English club, then there's a potential buyer for us. Like Abu Dhabi, they won't want to buy the finished article, because there's little challenge there. As a club and as a city, there is huge potential here, never mind what the national media tells you. And it would delight the likes of Qatar no end to acquire something with real pedigree and history (which they crave in the Gulf) and turn it into something that will put others' noses out of joint - just like Abu Dhabi did with Man City. Would we lose our soul? Yes. Is it better than what we've got? I'll leave that one up to you to answer.
so why havent they done it allready then? complete bollox
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More chance of the state of Iran buying in.
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So the response from our owner and Chairman to the recent disasters ?
Thats right nothing, no new signings, nothing zilch f all. So we go into the most important game of the season with the same squad that are without doubt not good enough for this league.
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Yeah, it is a major concern that ware are going into the end of the 2nd wek of January and we've done nothing.
I appreciate that agents like to build a bit of a bidding war so business is generally done later in the month but we need players now FFS, it's not like our problems all started on January 1st is it.
You would have thought that an out of contract or freebie may have been lined up to strengthan the ranks like Robbie Keane did, especially with the Southampton game coming up.
The feeling that we're asleep at the wheel is only strengthened by yet more radio silence from them.
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Holte End Request:
Where's Randy Lerner,
We ask you, where's Randy Lerner?
Where Randy Leeeerner,
We ask you, where's Randy Lerner?
Can't you just phone him and ask?
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As long as Qatar remain without an English club, then there's a potential buyer for us. Like Abu Dhabi, they won't want to buy the finished article, because there's little challenge there. As a club and as a city, there is huge potential here, never mind what the national media tells you. And it would delight the likes of Qatar no end to acquire something with real pedigree and history (which they crave in the Gulf) and turn it into something that will put others' noses out of joint - just like Abu Dhabi did with Man City. Would we lose our soul? Yes. Is it better than what we've got? I'll leave that one up to you to answer.
so why havent they done it allready then? complete bollox
I was going to react, then I saw who the poster was and thought better of it.
I said they were potential buyers, in response to those saying there was nobody out there to buy us. There are lots of super-rich people out there who might want to buy a Premier League football club, as we have seen in the past. We might have to sell ourselves, though.
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Haven't Everton had a "For Sale" up for years and got no takers?
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Haven't Everton had a "For Sale" up for years and got no takers?
Yes kenwright has made public he would be prepared to sell up to the right person but even such a well run and respected club as Everton have had little interest - kenwright wouldn't just sell to anyone though , it would have to be right for Everton.
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Haven't Everton had a "For Sale" up for years and got no takers?
Yes kenwright has made public he would be prepared to sell up to the right person but even such a well run and respected club as Everton have had little interest - kenwright wouldn't just sell to anyone though , it would have to be right for Everton.
Doesn't Goodison Park also need quite a bit of restorative work? That can't help for getting buyers though.
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Haven't Everton had a "For Sale" up for years and got no takers?
Yes kenwright has made public he would be prepared to sell up to the right person but even such a well run and respected club as Everton have had little interest - kenwright wouldn't just sell to anyone though , it would have to be right for Everton.
Doesn't Goodison Park also need quite a bit of restorative work? That can't help for getting buyers though.
Goodison has no potential for expansion as far as I'm aware, I'm pretty sure a new ground has been high on their list for a long time but the funding isn't there for it.
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Goodison is only a bit smaller capacity wise than Stamford Bridge, lack of ability to increase capacity didn't stop Chelsea being taken over and spending a fortune. I can't see something like that stopping anyone who planned to do an Abramovich or Man City.
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Goodison is only a bit smaller capacity wise than Stamford Bridge, lack of ability to increase capacity didn't stop Chelsea being taken over and spending a fortune. I can't see something like that stopping anyone who planned to do an Abramovich or Man City.
Easier at Chelsea though seeing as a season ticket of over £1000 is accepted there, I doubt many scousers would be happy with those prices.
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When we're talking about stupid money getting spent on a side, I doubt ticket prices make a significant difference though.
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Goodison has many problems, like lack of corporate boxes / facilities, the whole ground virtually needs developing, they want to move. It's a huge issue for anyone looking to buy. Hence, why Citeh were a good option, they had a brand new stadium all ready in place from the Commonwealth games.
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Just because Everton haven't yet been bought, it doesn't mean they won't be. It also doesn't mean Kenwright has given up looking for a buyer. It makes sense that Qatar, with a world cup approaching, will be looking to raise their profile in football.
With Abu Dhabi, Man City is not a plaything. It's about prestige, credibility and respect. We all laughed when they first tried to sign Kaka. Who's laughing now? AD could have bought Man Utd 1000 times over, but buying the finished article is too easy. They want to turn a club into a success, a force, to say 'look what we've achieved.' Nobody knows, but it might be the same with Qatar, meaning that clubs in the pre-money Man City mould might be a target: us, Everton, Newcastle, etc.
Why not us?
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Goodison is only a bit smaller capacity wise than Stamford Bridge, lack of ability to increase capacity didn't stop Chelsea being taken over and spending a fortune. I can't see something like that stopping anyone who planned to do an Abramovich or Man City.
Yes but Chelsea are a big London club and that's probably first on the list for prospective buyers. When it comes to other city teams, then a list of other criteria would come into play, of which the requirement to build a new stadium for Everton would be a ballache that buyers might just not fancy. Goodison is a traditional old ground which is nice in some ways, but in terms of modern stadia it's a right old shitheap, and there aren't really any other suitable sites in Liverpool, which is why they were looking at an out of town site off the East lancs road. But then that led to lots of very unhappy fans.
I'd say a few clubs would be a better bet for arabs with money to burn than Everton, eg us, Leeds, Newcastle etc.
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London-clubs obviously takes the priority in the minds of rich buyers but is there any clubs really available for puchase? West Ham?
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Leeds have been brought by a Dubai based group..so certainly if the right club is available there are buyers.
I don't need us to spend shed loads of cash just be better run of the footballing side of things.
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I don't need us to spend shed loads of cash just be better run of the footballing side of things.
Indeed.
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Any chance of a poll to see just how many H & V'ers still have faith in him?
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Probably it would ultimately be as fruitless as Manchester United fans' anti-Glazer protests, but is now not the time for Villa Park to be howling for Lerner and the rest of his clueless board to go. His mis-management has turned us into a laughing stock - and we're hurtling towards relegation. That's his - and nobody else's - legacy.
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For me Mr Lerner has to go...
Enough is enough...
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I'd love him to go, this club's downfall started at pretty much the time this feckless oaf started making any decision more important than which tiles to put in the new pub.
Unfortunately there seem to be very few people interested in buying clubs - how long have Everton been available? You can't exactly just put the club on ebay.
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Lerner out! I don't care who replaces him.
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FFS, why are people telling him he "must go"? What it hard to understand about there needing to be someone around to buy the club off him in order for him to go?
That's not me defending him - he has proven himself conclusively to not have the first fucking idea what he is doing running sports businesses, on both sides of the Atlantic, the guy's "leadership" over the last three years has been truly pathetic.
That doesn't change the fact, though, that you can't just say "Go" like you can at a manager.
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Randy Lerner: "Compelling play and results that instil a sense of confidence that Villa is on the right track have been plainly absent."
It still is Randolph.
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We said 'Ellis out' often enough and it wasn't this crap.
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You're of course right, Paulie, but we can leave him, Faulkner and the others in no doubt that their stewardship of the club is an ummitigated disaster and the sooner they fuck off the better.
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The Browns fans did warn us!!! ;)
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FFS, why are people telling him he "must go"? What it hard to understand about there needing to be someone around to buy the club off him in order for him to go?
That's not me defending him - he has proven himself conclusively to not have the first fucking idea what he is doing running sports businesses, on both sides of the Atlantic, the guy's "leadership" over the last three years has been truly pathetic.
That doesn't change the fact, though, that you can't just say "Go" like you can at a manager.
Paul, when I said Mr Lerner must go, obviously it's easier said than done..
But I think it's time to let Mr Lerner know that enough is enough, like you said we have had more than three years of this absolutely piss poor leadership..
We let Mr Ellis know we had had enough of his leadership, I think any Villa fan is justified to tell Mr Lerner the same under the current situation...
Respect :)
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FFS, why are people telling him he "must go"? What it hard to understand about there needing to be someone around to buy the club off him in order for him to go?
That's not me defending him - he has proven himself conclusively to not have the first fucking idea what he is doing running sports businesses, on both sides of the Atlantic, the guy's "leadership" over the last three years has been truly pathetic.
That doesn't change the fact, though, that you can't just say "Go" like you can at a manager.
I suppose what they mean is that he should make the club available and start touting for prospective buyers. And I'd be very pleased if he did.
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Any chance of a poll to see just how many H & V'ers still have faith in him?
if they dont do one i will
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How much would it cost to get a full page ad in The Mail telling Randy directly enough is enough? If it's not too expensive, a whip around from all the Villa forums might pay for it.
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How much would it cost to get a full page ad in The Mail telling Randy directly enough is enough? If it's not too expensive, a whip around from all the Villa forums might pay for it.
im in
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How much would it cost to get a full page ad in The Mail telling Randy directly enough is enough? If it's not too expensive, a whip around from all the Villa forums might pay for it.
I'll pay for it myself.
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Yes I think it is time to let Randy know that enough is enough and we are not some stars and stripes franchise , we are Aston Villa and we do not deserve this
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Do they receive the Mail in Cleveland?
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Can I write the letter please?
Dear Randy,
Shit, or get off the pot.
Villa fans
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How much would it cost to get a full page ad in The Mail telling Randy directly enough is enough? If it's not too expensive, a whip around from all the Villa forums might pay for it.
im in
Count me in too
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The clown that is Paul Faulkner has to go.
How he has kept his job whilst all around has turned to shit is mind blowing.
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Can I write the letter please?
Dear Randy,
Shit, or get off the pot.
Villa fans
I prefer the more succinct:
Lerner
Fuck off
End.
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Yes, but just look at the sort of people being linked with Small Heath.
Or do you fancy a bit of Venky's?
Things are bad now, but believe me, they could be a whole lot worse.
They could be a whole lot better too.
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Yes, but just look at the sort of people being linked with Small Heath.
Or do you fancy a bit of Venky's?
Things are bad now, but believe me, they could be a whole lot worse.
They could be a whole lot better too.
If you put all the current owners in a line, with Venky's on the left side, and say Sheikh Mansour at the other, I'd have Lerner a gnat's cock to the right of Venky's, but only just.
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Between now and the rest of the season we need to fill Villa Park and get behind these kids or else we could go down. What we should do though is not buy ANYTHING inside the ground, no pies, drinks, chips, programmes etc. If not £1 was spent in the ground that would send a better message to Lerner. If he doesn't want to invest, neither will we.
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Lerner out! I don't care who replaces him.
Be careful what you wish for there are plenty out there like the Blackburn or Blues owners
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Between now and the rest of the season we need to fill Villa Park and get behind these kids or else we could go down.
I think the supporters have been very tolerant so far. Regarding relegation, I think we are doomed.
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Lerner out! I don't care who replaces him.
Be careful what you wish for there are plenty out there like the Blackburn or Blues owners
Fans of other teams will soon be talking about Lerner in similar terms.
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How about a picture of Lerner, with a puzzled look on his face, and then a picture of an arse and an elbow.
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Lerner out! I don't care who replaces him.
Be careful what you wish for there are plenty out there like the Blackburn or Blues owners
It's frustration. I want to see some money spent on this team and, as each day goes by, we see nothing. Why can't Lerner speak up ? We want to see some leadership and we are seeing fuck all.
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Lerner out! I don't care who replaces him.
Be careful what you wish for there are plenty out there like the Blackburn or Blues owners
It's frustration. I want to see some money spent on this team and, as each day goes by, we see nothing. Why can't Lerner speak up ? We want to see some leadership and we are seeing fuck all.
And this is the problem, we have no guidance and no idea where he wants to take us. At the moment he doesn't seem the slightest bit arsed
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Yes, but just look at the sort of people being linked with Small Heath.
Or do you fancy a bit of Venky's?
Things are bad now, but believe me, they could be a whole lot worse.
They could be a whole lot better too.
If you put all the current owners in a line, with Venky's on the left side, and say Sheikh Mansour at the other, I'd have Lerner a gnat's cock to the right of Venky's, but only just.
Is what Sheikh Mansour has done at Man City that much different than what Lerner did with us? The only difference I can see is the scale of the spending, which in turn has brought them trophies. He's still just thrown loads of money at them on a gamble to get in with the big boys. Their wages and annual losses are massively worse than we've ever had.
I don't think you can criticise Lerner whilst at the same time say Sheikh Mansour is the best Chairman there is.
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Yes, but just look at the sort of people being linked with Small Heath.
Or do you fancy a bit of Venky's?
Things are bad now, but believe me, they could be a whole lot worse.
They could be a whole lot better too.
If you put all the current owners in a line, with Venky's on the left side, and say Sheikh Mansour at the other, I'd have Lerner a gnat's cock to the right of Venky's, but only just.
Is what Sheikh Mansour has done at Man City that much different than what Lerner did with us? The only difference I can see is the scale of the spending, which in turn has brought them trophies. He's still just thrown loads of money at them on a gamble to get in with the big boys. Their wages and annual losses are massively worse than we've ever had.
I don't think you can criticise Lerner whilst at the same time say Sheikh Mansour is the best Chairman there is.
Absolute nonsense. Mansour can spend what he likes because he has a bottomless pit of money. Lerner hasn't, and didn't realise that if you gave people £65K a year for four years, they'd still be expecting to be paid that amount four years later. Then there are all the other fucks ups like the appointment of McLeish, the pathetic stuff about the letter from Ferguson and so on.
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Have read nothing this afternoon. However, get your fucking hand in your pocket else we are done.
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We are crying out for someone with footballing nous to come in and sort things out off the field and yet nothing is being done, which leads me to believe that Faulkner and Lerner are either too proud to ask for help, or too damn ignorant.
In either case, if they don't stop dithering like shitting dogs and sort this mess out, we are done for.
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1
Can I write the letter please?
Dear Randy,
Shit, or get off the pot.
Villa fans
I prefer the more succinct:
Lerner
Fuck off
End.
Might I suggest a minor adjustment that will appeal more to Randy.
Dear Mr Lerner,
Fuck off.
Hugs and kisses,
Sir Alex.
P.S. How about you put this in your safe deposit box, you stupid bastard.
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He's treated us the same as he treated the Browns. Hopefully his next action with us will be the same as his final action for them. And the sooner the better
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Please Randy for the sake of Aston Villa, which will be here after you have gone just like it was before you came, either give us your full support and that does mean money, get some one within the organisation that knows a football is round not oval and more importantly knows about AVFC's position in the football ( dont you dare call it soccer) life that is England's top division, some wankers call it the Premier League, but we know it as the top division as we have been here for most of our existence and before that becomes a distanced memory either cough up or FUCK OFF.
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Forget Lambert,its this lot we need to having a go at.
Randolph Lerner
Paul Faulkner
Robin Russell
General Charles C. Krulak
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Between now and the rest of the season we need to fill Villa Park and get behind these kids or else we could go down.
I think the supporters have been very tolerant so far. Regarding relegation, I think we are doomed.
Sixteen games to play yet. We can't allow ourselves to throw in the towel.
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How much would it cost to get a full page ad in The Mail telling Randy directly enough is enough?
Pretty pointless, I doubt he can read.
For fans of graphic novels, he reminds me of the VP in 'The Boys' series.
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The total absence of football men on the board will be the main reason that we'll succumb this season. They simply haven't a clue how to implement a plan to take the club forward. In short, they've let us down.
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Where is the ******? Probably sipping champagne, obviously doesn't care about the sky increase, he'll only pocket it anyway. He's probably thinking ha and they didn't want Mcleish. I'm the greatest or something like that
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I have a horrible feeling that the latest Boardroom farce will be for them to sack Lambert with about 3 days to go before the end of the window, thus almost ensuring that we can't get a new manager and players in in time.
To echo the words of the wise one "Would you bet against them"?
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I have a horrible feeling that the latest Boardroom farce will be for them to sack Lambert with about 3 days to go before the end of the window, thus almost ensuring that we can't get a new manager and players in in time.
To echo the words of the wise one "Would you bet against them"?
Surely not - it's back him with money now or sack him now !
No point doing it in a week or 2 weeks as the transfer window is running down, they need to do something now.
Either give him the money or give someone else the money - whoever is manager stands no chance without cash to spend.
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I have a horrible feeling that the latest Boardroom farce will be for them to sack Lambert with about 3 days to go before the end of the window, thus almost ensuring that we can't get a new manager and players in in time.
To echo the words of the wise one "Would you bet against them"?
Surely not - it's back him with money now or sack him now !
No point doing it in a week or 2 weeks as the transfer window is running down, they need to do something now.
Either give him the money or give someone else the money - whoever is manager stands no chance without cash to spend.
Well I know that and you know that but...........................................
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Is the Invisible man even in England at the moment? If he is has he watched us or just been shopping at Harrods? Has the man spoken to anyone in the last 8 months or are the rumours of him having his tongue amputated true?
The sooner this fucker stops running the club by email the better, if he had any heart he'd do the right thing and leave and get that stupid tattoo removed or covered over with the word TWAT.
Sick of the silence at least with Doug you'd have his daily lies in the Evening Mail to round on when we we're struggling and promises of signing Klinsmann and Keane.
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What happened to the pots of cash he was supposed to be spending on the Villa as a result of selling the Browns?
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Is the Invisible man even in England at the moment? If he is has he watched us or just been shopping at Harrods? Has the man spoken to anyone in the last 8 months or are the rumours of him having his tongue amputated true?
The sooner this fucker stops running the club by email the better, if he had any heart he'd do the right thing and leave and get that stupid tattoo removed or covered over with the word TWAT.
Sick of the silence at least with Doug you'd have his daily lies in the Evening Mail to round on when we we're struggling and promises of signing Klinsmann and Keane.
Remember that time the evening mail front page linked us with beckenbauer as manager in 1990?
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What happened to the pots of cash he was supposed to be spending on the Villa as a result of selling the Browns?
Didn't he have a really expensive divorce?
Maybe the former Mrs. Lerner would like to buy us ?
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What happened to the pots of cash he was supposed to be spending on the Villa as a result of selling the Browns?
Didn't he have a really expensive divorce?
Maybe the former Mrs. Lerner would like to buy us ?
Lerner and his EX wife, as a consortium, it's the dream ticket. She's obviously the one with the brains as she's cleaned him out. I wonder why they got divorced? He was probably the man of her dreams for 3 years, then gradually got bored of having to buy her things twice a year, Christmas and Birthdays and gradually became more of a recluse, locking himself away in the basement not talking to her months on end apart from the yearly crisis meeting in the kitchen deciding if to sack her off or buy her one last diamond necklace.
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What happened to the pots of cash he was supposed to be spending on the Villa as a result of selling the Browns?
Faulkner was quick enough to come out and tell us that selling the Browns wouldnt make any difference to us. The only time they ever communicate with us is to dampen down any expectations we might have. There doing it about transfers now. What a total and utter ambitionless club we are
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I reckon we'll get relegated, and Randy will do a radio interview to address the fans.
Except we're so used to never having heard him speak, it'll be like at the end of the second world war when Emperor Hirohito addressed the Japanese people, and most of them refused to believe it was him, as they'd never heard him speak before.
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We need the General back.
I'm telling you, it's the only way.
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I reckon we'll get relegated, and Randy will do a radio interview to address the fans.
Except we're so used to never having heard him speak, it'll be like at the end of the second world war when Emperor Hirohito addressed the Japanese people, and most of them refused to believe it was him, as they'd never heard him speak before.
i reckon he will sound just like Homer Simpson .
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I reckon we'll get relegated, and Randy will do a radio interview to address the fans.
Except we're so used to never having heard him speak, it'll be like at the end of the second world war when Emperor Hirohito addressed the Japanese people, and most of them refused to believe it was him, as they'd never heard him speak before.
i reckon he will sound just like Homer Simpson .
Yep first word he will say "DOH"
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Mr Lerner,
You said at the start of your chairmanship that the key to turning the club into a successful franchise was a winning team on the pitch. 'Your' club is therefore now akin to Lehman Brothers.
Does this mean that you have given up on Aston Villa??? If so, please sell quickly, we can field a proud, decent team without your money. We've done it before.
If I've jumped the gun, I'm sorry, but its hard knowing what direction we are going in when the chairman is a mute.
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He is letting us down badly at the moment, he has less than a week to start rectifying that. It's as simple as that.
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He is letting us down badly at the moment, he has less than a week to start rectifying that. It's as simple as that.
I'm positive he will, but it will be to protect his investment not enhance it.
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What happened to the pots of cash he was supposed to be spending on the Villa as a result of selling the Browns?
Didn't he have a really expensive divorce?
Maybe the former Mrs. Lerner would like to buy us ?
It would appear that the only thing "going down on him " this year is the Villa :)
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He is letting us down badly at the moment, he has less than a week to start rectifying that. It's as simple as that.
I'm positive he will, but it will be to protect his investment not enhance it.
What investment? The club's pretty much worthless as it stands - he's invested £250m in a team he purchased when it was battling relegation and has managed to get us to the point where we're battling relegation. His investment has just ended up in the pockets of the overvalued players we've seen on the pitch (or not in the case of lots of MONs signings) over the past 5 years.
The only way Lerner will get anything back for what he's put in is to make us successful. That's why he argued against some form of FFP rules for the Premier League - if such a thing came in he'd never get his money back.
I think he realises relegation would be bad but I'm not sure he sees it's any worse than running a club at a £50m annual loss as was the case by the end of the MON era.
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I got an email from the club thanking me for my support. That's better than any marque signing :-*
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He is letting us down badly at the moment, he has less than a week to start rectifying that. It's as simple as that.
I'm positive he will, but it will be to protect his investment not enhance it.
What investment? The club's pretty much worthless as it stands - he's invested £250m in a team he purchased when it was battling relegation and has managed to get us to the point where we're battling relegation. His investment has just ended up in the pockets of the overvalued players we've seen on the pitch (or not in the case of lots of MONs signings) over the past 5 years.
The only way Lerner will get anything back for what he's put in is to make us successful. That's why he argued against some form of FFP rules for the Premier League - if such a thing came in he'd never get his money back.
I think he realises relegation would be bad but I'm not sure he sees it's any worse than running a club at a £50m annual loss as was the case by the end of the MON era.
His investment in the club.
Do you think he wouldn't get anything back from the sale of Aston Villa?! I'm not saying he's made or lost money (He hasn't actually, until the club is sold)
Its like the housing market. I may have spent 'x' on renovating my house, it may be worth less, it may be worth more. It doesn't really matter as I'm staying put. Time will tell.
What do people actually think the club is worth now? (if we stay in the same league)
- What I'm trying to say (badly) is that he is probably willing to spend some money, because the club is worth far more in this league than out
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In the grand scheme of things, the Villa franchise is the pot in which he pisses, it's a blip on his balance sheet, he's worth over a $Billion, what makes you think he gives two fucks about something he paid £65 million for, apart from that stupid tattoo? Invested £250 million? Write it off, I bet he'll get cashback on it. He could let this club rot, would it mean anything to him? He has nobody to answer to but the big man himself.
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His investment in the club.
Do you think he wouldn't get anything back from the sale of Aston Villa?! I'm not saying he's made or lost money (He hasn't actually, until the club is sold)
Its like the housing market. I may have spent 'x' on renovating my house, it may be worth less, it may be worth more. It doesn't really matter as I'm staying put. Time will tell.
What do people actually think the club is worth now? (if we stay in the same league)
Whilst he hasn't realised any loss until he sells up I think it's pretty clear the club is worth less than when he bought it.
Think about it. He paid Doug £63m to buy a club with no debt. Since then he's put c.£200m-£250m - half as equity (ie money he may or may not get back on a sale) and half as debt (money any purchaser would have to cough up as part of a sale).
Whilst there have been some superficial improvements to VP (renovating the Trinity Road Stand, etc) there has been very little long term investment in the infrastructure. The only things I can think about are the redevelopment of Bodymoor which I don't think cost more than £5m and the renovation of the Holte Pub which can't have cost too much.
The vast majority of the £200m-£250m has therefore gone on player transfer fees, wages, and manager compensation. The whole idea of a football club is that investment in the playing squad improves the income the club generates but the last set of accounts (to May 2011) showed the club lost a lot of cash over that season.
For him to get his money back a potential purchaser would have to come up with over £300m. Can you see anyone paying that for a club which is no further on that it was 5 years ago when Randy paid £63m?
I think this proves he's lost money and explains why he stopped throwing money at the club.
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In the grand scheme of things, the Villa franchise is the pot in which he pisses, it's a blip on his balance sheet, he's worth over a $Billion, what makes you think he gives two fucks about something he paid £65 million for, apart from that stupid tattoo? Invested £250 million? Write it off, I bet he'll get cashback on it. He could let this club rot, would it mean anything to him? He has nobody to answer to but the big man himself.
I know his money is not earned as such but rich people don't get rich by writing off £300m here and there. My experience is that the richer someone is the tighter they are. I know someone who used to work in Opus (fancy restaurant in town) which Randy tends to frequent and he told me Randy was one of the tightest people in there when it came to tipping.
Anyway, didn't his divorce cost him half his money? Wasn't that the catalyst for him selling the Browns?
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I got an email from the club thanking me for my support. That's better than any marque signing :-*
Don't forget your free flag.
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In the grand scheme of things, the Villa franchise is the pot in which he pisses, it's a blip on his balance sheet, he's worth over a $Billion, what makes you think he gives two fucks about something he paid £65 million for, apart from that stupid tattoo? Invested £250 million? Write it off, I bet he'll get cashback on it. He could let this club rot, would it mean anything to him? He has nobody to answer to but the big man himself.
I know his money is not earned as such but rich people don't get rich by writing off £300m here and there. My experience is that the richer someone is the tighter they are. I know someone who used to work in Opus (fancy restaurant in town) which Randy tends to frequent and he told me Randy was one of the tightest people in there when it came to tipping.
Anyway, didn't his divorce cost him half his money? Wasn't that the catalyst for him selling the Browns?
Doug MkII x 2 then!
The divorce may well have been the catalyst for selling, the similarities are just too horribly, well, similar, as for writing down millions in losses, I think you'd be surprised what rich people, tax accountants & lawyers can get away with, especially if it means he doesn't have to give away to his ex-wife even more money.
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His investment in the club.
Do you think he wouldn't get anything back from the sale of Aston Villa?! I'm not saying he's made or lost money (He hasn't actually, until the club is sold)
Its like the housing market. I may have spent 'x' on renovating my house, it may be worth less, it may be worth more. It doesn't really matter as I'm staying put. Time will tell.
What do people actually think the club is worth now? (if we stay in the same league)
Whilst he hasn't realised any loss until he sells up I think it's pretty clear the club is worth less than when he bought it.
Think about it. He paid Doug £63m to buy a club with no debt. Since then he's put c.£200m-£250m - half as equity (ie money he may or may not get back on a sale) and half as debt (money any purchaser would have to cough up as part of a sale).
Whilst there have been some superficial improvements to VP (renovating the Trinity Road Stand, etc) there has been very little long term investment in the infrastructure. The only things I can think about are the redevelopment of Bodymoor which I don't think cost more than £5m and the renovation of the Holte Pub which can't have cost too much.
The vast majority of the £200m-£250m has therefore gone on player transfer fees, wages, and manager compensation. The whole idea of a football club is that investment in the playing squad improves the income the club generates but the last set of accounts (to May 2011) showed the club lost a lot of cash over that season.
For him to get his money back a potential purchaser would have to come up with over £300m. Can you see anyone paying that for a club which is no further on that it was 5 years ago when Randy paid £63m?
I think this proves he's lost money and explains why he stopped throwing money at the club.
But it doesn't mean he will not invest to try and maintain its biggest asset (its league status)
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To me Villa is priceless, so by my reckoning if Lerner will sell the club for £0.00 which is priceless I promise that I will turn it all around by renaming the Trinity Road, the 'Randy Lerner Tax Deductable Stand' and selling Darren Bent for 8 or 9 million, keeping Lambert on with the realistic objectives of:
1. Staying in the Championship.
2. Pushing for a play off place whilst cutting the collective wage bill to less than 100k a week.
I will of course keep the 8 or so million for Bent to cover my admin fee for conducting the sale of the club.
Please support me in my bid to become the most loved Chairman since Doug.
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But it doesn't mean he will not invest to try and maintain its biggest asset (its league status)
True enough, but if maintaining that asset costs £54m a year (based on the 2011 accounts) and relegation costs less (I don't know if the numbers work like this) then he might think that relegation is the best way to set the wage level (which is the major issue) at a more appropriate base before having another crack at improving his investment.
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In a more serious tone I agree with Ad@m, yes if trimming the wage bill is a main objective then we have to go down and then rebuild.
Lambert's plan for the youth to come through fits in with this strategy which is maybe why the club have said that stay up or go down Lambert is safe.
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But it doesn't mean he will not invest to try and maintain its biggest asset (its league status)
True enough, but if maintaining that asset costs £54m a year (based on the 2011 accounts) and relegation costs less (I don't know if the numbers work like this) then he might think that relegation is the best way to set the wage level (which is the major issue) at a more appropriate base before having another crack at improving his investment.
I see what you mean. I wish I had his problem, I'd spunk it all on villa
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It's not what people want to hear Adam, but I think you're right.
Lerner bought the club with the idea of investing £Xmillion every year in order to win the Champions League qualification lottery. At which point, I assume he would have taken his profit and buggered off back to Cleveland with his leg-ink as a souvenir.
Now, for a multitude of reasons, things never quite worked out as the business plan forecast. The recession, his divorce, Man City, MONs mutiny, Houlliers heart, Fergies letter scam, Laursens injury, Phil Dowd, Redknapp going to Spurs, Chelsea sacking Scholari the week before we played them, Moscow and Stokes comeback. I'm sure there were others but you get the point. We had a real go in those 5 years and I still say we were close to cracking it, regardless of who you want to aim your bitterness at now.
So, as with many financial matters, following the boom comes the crunch. The bill. The settler. Lerner has withdrawn his golden tit and kicked Aston Villa into the street to fend for itself. We're back in the same boat we left in 2005, out of shape and wrestling with sharks that are even bigger and hungrier than they were 8 years ago.
So if the question is, does trying and failing make Randy Lerner a bad owner? I don't think theres a simple yes or no to it, but I do know the party is over under him, and crying for more money will achieve nothing in his eyes other than to make us look like spoilt little brats.
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100% right Mr Woo, the frustration is that the only way forward appears to be relegation which seems so unappealing.
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The piece of the equation I cannot work out is why Lerner has allowed the same man to remain as Chief Executive through the whole period of his money being pissed up the wall by non stop bungling.
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Good point. Very good point.
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The piece of the equation I cannot work out is why Lerner has allowed the same man to remain as Chief Executive through the whole period of his money being pissed up the wall by non stop bungling.
Because he loves him like a son.
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Rather than use people qualified to do the job, he's chosen people he knows.
Hence Faulkner (call centre manager for a credit card company) and Krulak (surrogate father).
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Lerner must be pig thick if he cant see that unless we buy in the window we are going down.
Message to Lerner: shit, or get off the pot.
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Lerner must be pig thick if he cant see that unless we buy in the window we are going down.
Message to Lerner: shit, or get off the pot.
I've seen that phrase used before. What does it mean?
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He's saying he needs to make more money available or sell the club.
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Message to Lerner: Lay off the pot, Faulkner's shit
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He's saying he needs to make more money available or sell the club.
I guessed as much. First, is there anyone who has a spare half a billion pounds and fancies buying a football club? Second, isn't the fools paradise of relying on an owner to bail you out every season what got us into this mess?
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He's saying he needs to make more money available or sell the club.
I guessed as much. First, is there anyone who has a spare half a billion pounds and fancies buying a football club? Second, isn't the fools paradise of relying on an owner to bail you out every season what got us into this mess?
True. What would you think needs to be done, if anything?
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He's saying he needs to make more money available or sell the club.
I guessed as much. First, is there anyone who has a spare half a billion pounds and fancies buying a football club? Second, isn't the fools paradise of relying on an owner to bail you out every season what got us into this mess?
Randy has to take most of the blame for being in this mess.What was the point in buying us if he didn't know what to do with it once he got it.
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He's saying he needs to make more money available or sell the club.
I guessed as much. First, is there anyone who has a spare half a billion pounds and fancies buying a football club? Second, isn't the fools paradise of relying on an owner to bail you out every season what got us into this mess?
True. What would you think needs to be done, if anything?
In the short term we need a couple of players, and that doesn't need a massive injection from the owner. Longer term we need to get back to whatever it was that was driving the club forward during the first three years of Randy's time, when anything seemed possible. Wider, we and every other club have to stop living beyond our natural means.
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Well we are in deep shit. If we do go down it will cost us anything up to £60 million. Lerner knows the risks.
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If Lerner purchased Villa to make money he his even more stupid than I thought.
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If Lerner purchased Villa to make money he his even more stupid than I thought.
Nobody will ever know why he purchased the Villa.
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In the short term we need a couple of players, and that doesn't need a massive injection from the owner. Longer term we need to get back to whatever it was that was driving the club forward during the first three years of Randy's time, when anything seemed possible. Wider, we and every other club have to stop living beyond our natural means.
Your two sentences completely contradict each other. It was living completely beyond our means that fuelled the first three years of Lerner's ownership. We were told that the wanton spending was all part of the grand plan.
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Longer term we need to get back to whatever it was that was driving the club forward during the first three years of Randy's time, when anything seemed possible.
Do you think Randy would have him back?
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In the short term we need a couple of players, and that doesn't need a massive injection from the owner. Longer term we need to get back to whatever it was that was driving the club forward during the first three years of Randy's time, when anything seemed possible. Wider, we and every other club have to stop living beyond our natural means.
Your two sentences completely contradict each other. It was living completely beyond our means that fuelled the first three years of Lerner's ownership. We were told that the wanton spending was all part of the grand plan.
Whenever we mentioned money to Krulak - and we did, and usually with reference to the wage bill - he'd gently patronise us and tell us not to worry, that they knew what they were doing.
The football equivalent of Chamberlain waving his scrap of paper, as it turned out.
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He's saying he needs to make more money available or sell the club.
I guessed as much. First, is there anyone who has a spare half a billion pounds and fancies buying a football club? Second, isn't the fools paradise of relying on an owner to bail you out every season what got us into this mess?
The difference is, Lerner knew the bigger picture financially. We didn't.
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He's saying he needs to make more money available or sell the club.
I guessed as much. First, is there anyone who has a spare half a billion pounds and fancies buying a football club? Second, isn't the fools paradise of relying on an owner to bail you out every season what got us into this mess?
The difference is, Lerner knew the bigger picture financially. We didn't.
That's exactly the point. You can't keep relying on it, and hoping another one will be along next year.
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It's not a very clever way of building a stable football club is it.
What was he playing at? I know he has taken a hit but,the club was never going to pay for itself.
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Prudent and intelligent management with consistent investment is what builds any business. Everton survive and prosper, because they have strong and competent management. In David Moyes they have one of the best British team managers in the business and someone who consistently uses the money he has to best effect. For an 'unfashionable' club Everton also engender the sort of loyalty from its players that you seldom see from the majority of journeymen who come through the revolving door at VP. Villa could do worse than follow their model.
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Well spending some money in this transfer window to ensure safety wouldn't be relying on him to bail us out, it would be the upcoming TV deal which is guaranteed if we survive.
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He's saying he needs to make more money available or sell the club.
I guessed as much. First, is there anyone who has a spare half a billion pounds and fancies buying a football club? Second, isn't the fools paradise of relying on an owner to bail you out every season what got us into this mess?
The difference is, Lerner knew the bigger picture financially. We didn't.
That's exactly the point. You can't keep relying on it, and hoping another one will be along next year.
We're not talking about spending huge amounts to chase the top 4 any more though, we're talking about sensible investment to keep us in the Premier League. The costs of which, if we don't retain our top league status, will be immense.
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Sensible investment along the lines of £23m in the summer?
Can the myth that he's not spending any money and has 'closed the cheque book' come to an end, we spent a lot in the summer and yes we do still need a player or 2 but what we've seen this season is sensible planned spending, with an eye on ensuring we don't spend outside our means and that we keep the wage bill at a suitable level.
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I suppose there's the argument that if we'd spent £30m in the summer and still struggled, then Randy should have given him £40m and so on.
We do need some experience in now though and that's what Lambert should have done in the first place.
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Sensible investment along the lines of £23m in the summer?
Can the myth that he's not spending any money and has 'closed the cheque book' come to an end, we spent a lot in the summer and yes we do still need a player or 2 but what we've seen this season is sensible planned spending, with an eye on ensuring we don't spend outside our means and that we keep the wage bill at a suitable level.
The only myth is that Randy and Paul can run a football club.They haven't a bloody clue.
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Sensible investment along the lines of £23m in the summer?
Can the myth that he's not spending any money and has 'closed the cheque book' come to an end, we spent a lot in the summer and yes we do still need a player or 2 but what we've seen this season is sensible planned spending, with an eye on ensuring we don't spend outside our means and that we keep the wage bill at a suitable level.
The only myth is that Randy and Paul can run a football club.They haven't a bloody clue.
The comment I replied to had nothing to do with how they're running the club though, it was specifically stating the the finance required is sensible investment not gung-ho shooting for the top 4. so, is a net spend of £23m not suitable and a form of 'sensible investment'?
I've said it many times before, criticise Lerner for his scattergun approach to manager recruitment, that's where the problem has been (due to the complete lack of football knowledge at board level), he has consistently provided the cash for transfers and there's nothing to suggest there isn't some cash available in this window, Lambert has said as much himself.
I'm fed up of reading villa fans complaining about the club having no money when it's clearly not the case. The problem we have is down to how the money was spent, not the amount of money that was spent.
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Sensible investment along the lines of £23m in the summer?
Can the myth that he's not spending any money and has 'closed the cheque book' come to an end, we spent a lot in the summer and yes we do still need a player or 2 but what we've seen this season is sensible planned spending, with an eye on ensuring we don't spend outside our means and that we keep the wage bill at a suitable level.
I've never denied that he made a good deal amount of money available in the summer. However, we need some more now to get us out of this hole we're in. If we go down, our already dire finances will be made far, far worse. That is sensible investment.
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Sensible investment along the lines of £23m in the summer?
Can the myth that he's not spending any money and has 'closed the cheque book' come to an end, we spent a lot in the summer and yes we do still need a player or 2 but what we've seen this season is sensible planned spending, with an eye on ensuring we don't spend outside our means and that we keep the wage bill at a suitable level.
I've never denied that he made a good deal amount of money available in the summer. However, we need some more now to get us out of this hole we're in. If we go down, our already dire finances will be made far, far worse. That is sensible investment.
Money needs to be made available every transfer window. Improvement is always needed. I'm not suggesting Randy throws another £30mil around, but it's clear that the investment in the summer wasn't sufficent, and maybe part of it was spent wrong.
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Sensible investment along the lines of £23m in the summer?
Can the myth that he's not spending any money and has 'closed the cheque book' come to an end, we spent a lot in the summer and yes we do still need a player or 2 but what we've seen this season is sensible planned spending, with an eye on ensuring we don't spend outside our means and that we keep the wage bill at a suitable level.
I've never denied that he made a good deal amount of money available in the summer. However, we need some more now to get us out of this hole we're in. If we go down, our already dire finances will be made far, far worse. That is sensible investment.
As above why are you so sure nothing is available? Nothing coming out of the club suggests we're going to spend a fortune but many messages have said we're trying to get a player or 2 in and the the money is tight but there is something to work with.
To me there's 3-4m available and the delay has been because Lambert was hoping to add to that by selling 1-2 which hasn't happened as of yet.
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Sensible investment along the lines of £23m in the summer?
Can the myth that he's not spending any money and has 'closed the cheque book' come to an end, we spent a lot in the summer and yes we do still need a player or 2 but what we've seen this season is sensible planned spending, with an eye on ensuring we don't spend outside our means and that we keep the wage bill at a suitable level.
I've never denied that he made a good deal amount of money available in the summer. However, we need some more now to get us out of this hole we're in. If we go down, our already dire finances will be made far, far worse. That is sensible investment.
As above why are you so sure nothing is available? Nothing coming out of the club suggests we're going to spend a fortune but many messages have said we're trying to get a player or 2 in and the the money is tight but there is something to work with.
To me there's 3-4m available and the delay has been because Lambert was hoping to add to that by selling 1-2 which hasn't happened as of yet.
Where did I say nothing was available? I don't know or even particularly care WHY money isn't being spent, but it needs to be, otherwise we're going down.
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Sensible investment along the lines of £23m in the summer?
Can the myth that he's not spending any money and has 'closed the cheque book' come to an end, we spent a lot in the summer and yes we do still need a player or 2 but what we've seen this season is sensible planned spending, with an eye on ensuring we don't spend outside our means and that we keep the wage bill at a suitable level.
I've never denied that he made a good deal amount of money available in the summer. However, we need some more now to get us out of this hole we're in. If we go down, our already dire finances will be made far, far worse. That is sensible investment.
As above why are you so sure nothing is available? Nothing coming out of the club suggests we're going to spend a fortune but many messages have said we're trying to get a player or 2 in and the the money is tight but there is something to work with.
To me there's 3-4m available and the delay has been because Lambert was hoping to add to that by selling 1-2 which hasn't happened as of yet.
Would you buy any of those players we are paying but not playing.They might as well send them to Fantasy Island.
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He has nobody to answer to but the big man himself.
So McGrath is involved again? He'd shore up our defence single-handed.
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If reports are to be believed and noone is coming in, then Lerner is the biggest moron running a Premier League club. Staggering stupidity, it really is.
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Needs to go ...has the business sense of Peter Risdale
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You'd think after spending £60m on a club that you'd take a bit of care with it wouldn't you. It'd be like us spending a fortune on an Ipad, getting a few apps for it & then smashing it on the floor when you're bored with it.
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Show us the money Randy and Faulkner.
(http://inklake.typepad.com/.a/6a00d834a9169369e20128764c5377970c-800wi)
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Well done Lerner you are destroying one of the biggest clubs in England, that is quite an effort. Do the right thing and try and find someone to buy the club, you're an absolute joke.
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Well done Lerner you are destroying one of the biggest clubs in England, that is quite an effort. Do the right thing and try and find someone to buy the club, you're an absolute joke.
Hear Hear.
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Would Randy give up some of the club if somebody came with a truck full of cash?
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You do wonder what exactly the target of the wage bill reduction is. I mean we've always heard transfer fees aren't the issue, but they clearly are. Our wage bill most be one of the lowest in the league now, what do they want it to be £10 a week?
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Would Randy give up some of the club if somebody came with a truck full of cash?
Doubt a bankster has much use for cash during these currency wars: gold bullion would be your main man.
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You do wonder what exactly the target of the wage bill reduction is. I mean we've always heard transfer fees aren't the issue, but they clearly are. Our wage bill most be one of the lowest in the league now, what do they want it to be £10 a week?
I doubt it, we've still got a whole load of overpaid wasters.
Ireland 60-70k
Given 60-70k
Nzogbia 50k
Dunne 60-70k
warnock 50k
Hutton 30k
All guesses but fairly accurate I think - that lot alone is about £17m a year and the only one contributing anything is nzogbia and he's only started to in the last couple of weeks.
Get rid of that lot and replace them with players that give a shit and we'd be fine.
As I recall there was something over the summer suggesting that we were at about the right level and just had to maintain that. The problem now may be that we're at the top of the limit that's been set and Lerner won't budge. If so that'd be fairly shortsighted given that at least Dunne and Warnock aren't a problem is 5months.
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Yes but the vast majority of the squad is on very low wages. Given the finance coming into the Premier League in the summer our wage bill cannot be that bad compared to anyone else's now.
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What's strange is the Mike Ashley was a laughing stock and the poster boy of a bad owner initially at Newcastle. However he has shown he can learn from mistakes and now has a sensible strategy. Our owner is just a fucking moron.
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Lets pretend I am a billionaire oil Sheik with a yearning to buy one of the most famous football clubs in the world. Would I buy now, at Premier League prices and risk us getting relegated anyway (which is probably inevitible whatever happens). Or would I wait until I could pick up a championship level bargain and restor us to glory?
Villa are toxic. No buyer is going to touch us with a platinum barge pole.
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What's strange is the Mike Ashley was a laughing stock and the poster boy of a bad owner initially at Newcastle. However he has shown he can learn from mistakes and now has a sensible strategy
Ashley's as mental as ever.
Only a couple of months since he extended Pardew's contract by 8 years - eight years!! - and Newcastle plummet down the table.
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What's strange is the Mike Ashley was a laughing stock and the poster boy of a bad owner initially at Newcastle. However he has shown he can learn from mistakes and now has a sensible strategy
Ashley's as mental as ever.
Only a couple of months since he extended Pardew's contract by 8 years - eight years!! - and Newcastle plummet down the table.
Has a clause if sacked ''only '' gets one year pay.
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What's strange is the Mike Ashley was a laughing stock and the poster boy of a bad owner initially at Newcastle. However he has shown he can learn from mistakes and now has a sensible strategy
Ashley's as mental as ever.
Only a couple of months since he extended Pardew's contract by 8 years - eight years!! - and Newcastle plummet down the table.
Has a clause if sacked ''only '' gets one year pay.
Sounds like a one year contract to me then. But with the added advantage that Newcastle can ward off poachers. Ashley is no mug
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Lets pretend I am a billionaire oil Sheik with a yearning to buy one of the most famous football clubs in the world. Would I buy now, at Premier League prices and risk us getting relegated anyway (which is probably inevitible whatever happens). Or would I wait until I could pick up a championship level bargain and restor us to glory?
Villa are toxic. No buyer is going to touch us with a platinum barge pole.
Michael Neville might still be interested ;-)
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To be honest Leeg that just depresses me, as long as Lerner is in charge it appears there is no hope.
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They think he's here.
We think he's there.
Where the fuck is he and what is he doing?
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Hmm, any similarities...just a few!
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He looks just like UKRedsox!
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They seek him here, they seek him there,
At Villa Park, it's very rare.
It will make or break him but he doesn't want the best,
He's a shit Chairman with no passion.
And when he jets to other towns,
And pisses off the Cleveland Browns,
Eagerly snoozing in his leather exec. chair,
He's a shit Chairman with no passion
Oh yes he is (oh yes he is), oh yes he is (oh yes he is).
There's one thing that he loves and that's economy
One year we're in Premier, and soon division 3.
Cos' He's a shit Chairman with no passion
They seek him here, they seek him there,
At Bodymoor Heath? he won't be there.
Every single week we see our beloved club in shit
Cos' He's a shit Chairman with no passion
Oh yes he is (oh yes he is), oh yes he is (oh yes he is).
His world is built on credit cards and temporary tattoo's.
We're not down the shitter yet, but he'll do his best
Cos' He's a shit Chairman with no passion
Oh yes he is (oh yes he is), oh yes he is (oh yes he is).
He's got the attention span of a butterfly.
In footballing matters he is as fickle as can be,
Cos' He's a shit Chairman with no passion
Cos' He's a shit Chairman with no passion
Cos' He's a shit Chairman with no passion
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What makes me angriest of all is that we only need a quick fix. Nobody is asking for Lerner to take megastars on long contracts at astronomical wages. What we need is five or six short term mercenaries. Somebody at Villa Park has to pick up the phone and talk to some agents. To them you put the simple question Do you have anybody available who would like to earn a million quid for a fourteen week contract, rising to one and a half million if you keep us up? Nine million quid tops to save us thirty million.
That they are not prepared to pursue such a no brainer solution tells you all you need to know about Randy Lerner and indirectly about Paul Lambert.
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Indeed it does, Brian. Indeed it does.
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What makes me angriest of all is that we only need a quick fix. Nobody is asking for Lerner to take megastars on long contracts at astronomical wages. What we need is five or six short term mercenaries. Somebody at Villa Park has to pick up the phone and talk to some agents. To them you put the simple question Do you have anybody available who would like to earn a million quid for a fourteen week contract, rising to one and a half million if you keep us up? Nine million quid tops to save us thirty million.
That they are not prepared to pursue such a no brainer solution tells you all you need to know about Randy Lerner and indirectly about Paul Lambert.
So who are all these players who will demand no transfer fee and be willing to leave a secure contract in order to sign on for us for six months. It is a no brainer but not in the way that you mean it, Brian.
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That Browns fan really highlights the reason we're in the shit it all comes back to Lerner, shit appointments from day one and has taken the club from struggling to struggling after spending 200 million, really takes a special level of incompetence to do that.
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Let's be honest, apart from letting the wage bill get out of control and the mistake of appointing TSM, nobody knows whether Lerner is doing a good or bad job.
The time to judge Lerner will be at the end of the month.
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A good example of the terrible way the club is run is Jean Makoun.
He's a player we spent £4m and a decent wage on, but where the fuck is he? On loan in Greece, then in France, then we hear he can't come back here because he wouldn't get a work permit.
Someone might be paying a chunk of his wages, but we're ultimately going watch yet another player we played decent money for walk away for nothing.
Why wasn't someone at the club thinking about the implication of sending him on loan, re his work permit?
Why does this sort of thing (players costing us a fortune, contributing fuck all, walking away for nothing) seem to happen to us so often?
Can you imagine Arsenal under David Dein letting that happen? Or any other club with a half decent football administrator in charge, for that matter?
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A good example of the terrible way the club is run is Jean Makoun.
He's a player we spent £4m and a decent wage on, but where the fuck is he? On loan in Greece, then in France, then we hear he can't come back here because he wouldn't get a work permit.
Someone might be paying a chunk of his wages, but we're ultimately going watch yet another player we played decent money for walk away for nothing.
Why wasn't someone at the club thinking about the implication of sending him on loan, re his work permit?
Why does this sort of thing (players costing us a fortune, contributing fuck all, walking away for nothing) seem to happen to us so often?
Can you imagine Arsenal under David Dein letting that happen? Or any other club with a half decent football administrator in charge, for that matter?
I think that's a great example of the issues that constantly changing manager creates. There has to be a period of stability and a manager be given the time and space to do things his way. I don't know if it wil work or not, you can never be sure with a new manager. However, I do know that the last few seasons have been like an episode of The Thick of It and sacking Lambert now would put the tin lid on the omnishambles that is Aston Villa.
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But where were the people in higher up positions, with the overview as managers changed, keeping an eye on things like this?
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Well Lerner, two can play at that game you c##t. After having a season ticket for more years than i can remember and probably having spent a much larger portion of my (limited) wealth over the many years of following MY CLUB than you ever have (and you've only lent it after all), no more. I'll not be spending any more of my hard earned cash until there is a professionally run football club in residence at B6.
Not renewing our season tickets is the only thing these tossers will listen to. >:(
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They seek him here, they seek him there,
At Villa Park, it's very rare.
It will make or break him but he doesn't want the best,
He's a shit Chairman with no passion.
And when he jets to other towns,
And pisses off the Cleveland Browns,
Eagerly snoozing in his leather exec. chair,
He's a shit Chairman with no passion
Oh yes he is (oh yes he is), oh yes he is (oh yes he is).
There's one thing that he loves and that's economy
One year we're in Premier, and soon division 3.
Cos' He's a shit Chairman with no passion
They seek him here, they seek him there,
At Bodymoor Heath? he won't be there.
Every single week we see our beloved club in shit
Cos' He's a shit Chairman with no passion
Oh yes he is (oh yes he is), oh yes he is (oh yes he is).
His world is built on credit cards and temporary tattoo's.
We're not down the shitter yet, but he'll do his best
Cos' He's a shit Chairman with no passion
Oh yes he is (oh yes he is), oh yes he is (oh yes he is).
He's got the attention span of a butterfly.
In footballing matters he is as fickle as can be,
Cos' He's a shit Chairman with no passion
Cos' He's a shit Chairman with no passion
Cos' He's a shit Chairman with no passion
*Clappy Man*. Great stuff Fletch.
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Let's be honest, apart from letting the wage bill get out of control and the mistake of appointing TSM, nobody knows whether Lerner is doing a good or bad job.
The time to judge Lerner will be at the end of the month.
Well I could probably write an entire book on why he is without doubt doing a bad job...but I think there is a simple way of looking at it. After almost 7 years and 200m, we are worse in every way then we were in 2006 when he took over.
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Let's be honest, apart from letting the wage bill get out of control and the mistake of appointing TSM, nobody knows whether Lerner is doing a good or bad job.
The time to judge Lerner will be at the end of the month.
I bet you still think Lance Armstrong didn't dope.
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Sorry if posted elsewhere but anybody else see this?
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/aston-villa-chairman-randy-lerner-1240157
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Sorry if posted elsewhere but anybody else see this?
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/aston-villa-chairman-randy-lerner-1240157
I note that our current chairman is now Sterling Billionaire as well as a Dollar Billionaire.
Well, that's nice.
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Sorry if posted elsewhere but anybody else see this?
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/aston-villa-chairman-randy-lerner-1240157
Has the funds but won't release them to us when we need them more then at any other time during his reign.
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Sorry if posted elsewhere but anybody else see this?
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/aston-villa-chairman-randy-lerner-1240157
I note that our current chairman is now Sterling Billionaire as well as a Dollar Billionaire.
Well, that's nice.
Ellis In!!!!!!!
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Let's be honest, apart from letting the wage bill get out of control and the mistake of appointing TSM, nobody knows whether Lerner is doing a good or bad job.
The time to judge Lerner will be at the end of the month.
I bet you still think Lance Armstrong didn't dope.
Hardly, Hilts. I just refuse to run around like a screaming little girl, calling him a c**t, etc.
I don't recall too many complaints when he was giving MON millions to piss up the wall or the £30m he gave to Houllier two years ago. He needs to back Lambert this window, make no mistake. Fail to and the proof will be there that he's lost interest, not to mention his marbles but until then I'll try to ignore the extended pantomine season.
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I read in the Post yesterday that Wanker was 3rd on the West Midlands 'Rich list'
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Wrong thread. It's all gettting a but much this morning.
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I read in the Post yesterday that Wanker was 3rd on the West Midlands 'Rich list'
Is calling him 'wanker' really necessary?
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This is not particularly useful or mature but it's how I feel - Fuck off Lerner.
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Who in here would trust Lerner to sell the club for good owner who knows what they are doing given his trackrecord on doing decisions? I bet he will sell the club for Paladini or someone like Venkys or who bought Portsmouth.
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Jarpie, I doubt there will be any sale any time soon, the club is toxic, there is no market for an asset like a football club who's worth has fallen so significantly.
Like I said some time ago, Lerner bought a classic thoroghbred sports car & was trying to maintain it at Halfords, that strategy has ended & it's just been left to rot on his driveway under a tarpaulin now, an eyesore, an embarrasment to him & his neighbours.
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I read in the Post yesterday that Wanker was 3rd on the West Midlands 'Rich list'
Is calling him 'wanker' really necessary?
Yes.
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I read in the Post yesterday that Wanker was 3rd on the West Midlands 'Rich list'
Is calling him 'wanker' really necessary?
What word do you suggest that describes him more appropriately?
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I read in the Post yesterday that Wanker was 3rd on the West Midlands 'Rich list'
Is calling him 'wanker' really necessary?
Yes.
i dont think it is appropriate, grow up!
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I read in the Post yesterday that Wanker was 3rd on the West Midlands 'Rich list'
Is calling him 'wanker' really necessary?
What word do you suggest that describes him more appropriately?
I'm not sure but 'wanker' is not one of them.
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Wanker isn't appropriate you're right, you need a dick & a pair of bollocks to be a wanker, something Lerner is clearly lacking.
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Double post
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Wanker isn't appropriate you're right, you need a dick & a pair of bollocks to be a wanker, something Lerner is clearly lacking.
Not to mention that you have to be hands-on to be a wanker...Yank twat it is then.
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I read in the Post yesterday that Wanker was 3rd on the West Midlands 'Rich list'
Is calling him 'wanker' really necessary?
What word do you suggest that describes him more appropriately?
I'm not sure but 'wanker' is not one of them.
He sure is a wanker.The Villa and Browns fans can't both be wrong.
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I read in the Post yesterday that Wanker was 3rd on the West Midlands 'Rich list'
Is calling him 'wanker' really necessary?
If the cap fits !
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If all you want to do is swear, please don't do it on here.
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I read in the Post yesterday that Wanker was 3rd on the West Midlands 'Rich list'
Is calling him 'wanker' really necessary?
Exactly ..with his money I highly doubt he has to do that himself
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A good example of the terrible way the club is run is Jean Makoun.
He's a player we spent £4m and a decent wage on, but where the fuck is he? On loan in Greece, then in France, then we hear he can't come back here because he wouldn't get a work permit.
Someone might be paying a chunk of his wages, but we're ultimately going watch yet another player we played decent money for walk away for nothing.
Why wasn't someone at the club thinking about the implication of sending him on loan, re his work permit?
Why does this sort of thing (players costing us a fortune, contributing fuck all, walking away for nothing) seem to happen to us so often?
Can you imagine Arsenal under David Dein letting that happen? Or any other club with a half decent football administrator in charge, for that matter?
I think that's a great example of the issues that constantly changing manager creates. There has to be a period of stability and a manager be given the time and space to do things his way. I don't know if it wil work or not, you can never be sure with a new manager. However, I do know that the last few seasons have been like an episode of The Thick of It and sacking Lambert now would put the tin lid on the omnishambles that is Aston Villa.
We do need to have a clear philosophy as a club that each manager we appoint works towards instead of a change in philosophy and direction with each new manager we get in.
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If all you want to do is swear, please don't do it on here.
At least people know what I think,what's your take on what's going on?
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there's been some odd treatment of some of our players i must say. Fair enough with some of the trouble makers but the likes of Bent, Makoun, Hutton i don't get. Much richer clubs than us wouldn't discard a massive investment like Bent because they changed manager, especially one who was a success when we played to his strengths. Makoun was discarded pretty much straight away despite looking no worse than the likes of Ireland. Hutton's been crap but he'd only just joined and was dumped as soon as lambchop arrived. If would be understandable behaviour if we were a Citeh or chelsea, but a team with hardly any options anyway?
Surely a chairman that worried about the pennies would ask the manager to utilise them rather than just write off their value totally, but then Lerner seem to be playing to a rule book no-one else uses.
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If all you want to do is swear, please don't do it on here.
At least people know what I think,what's your take on what's going on?
For a start I'm not going to get hysterical based on supposition. I haven't got a clue what's going on and don't like what's been happening lately. I've said that often enough.
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If all you want to do is swear, please don't do it on here.
At least people know what I think,what's your take on what's going on?
For a start I'm not going to get hysterical based on supposition. I haven't got a clue what's going on and don't like what's been happening lately. I've said that often enough.
Has the fanzine tried to get anything out of the club or is PF playing hide and seek.
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We're all hurting a little right now so I think there should be understanding that there will be a lot of anger in posts over the next few weeks or so. It's a bit like the five stages of grief. Not so much because we face the possibility of relegation, more so that we now realise the board aren't going to bother fighting the prospect of relegation.
I think, speaking in broad brush strokes about the general mood of villa fans, the anger stage won't last so long as the denial stage did.
I'm already moving from anger towards bargaining. Maybe we will scrape enough points to stay up. Two wins from the next three and things will be looking up. I genuinely think we can still stay up. I have accepted that it will have nothing to do with the incompetent board and will depend on our team finally gelling, our fans sticking with them and other teams around us going into some sort of meltdown.
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Let's be honest, apart from letting the wage bill get out of control and the mistake of appointing TSM, nobody knows whether Lerner is doing a good or bad job.
The time to judge Lerner will be at the end of the month.
Well I could probably write an entire book on why he is without doubt doing a bad job...but I think there is a simple way of looking at it. After almost 7 years and 200m, we are worse in every way then we were in 2006 when he took over.
But don't forget the free flags.
I'm still trying to work out why Tuesdays flag wasn't white.
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If all you want to do is swear, please don't do it on here.
At least people know what I think,what's your take on what's going on?
For a start I'm not going to get hysterical based on supposition. I haven't got a clue what's going on and don't like what's been happening lately. I've said that often enough.
Has the fanzine tried to get anything out of the club or is PF playing hide and seek.
If the BBC can't what chance have we got?
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It would be nice to know we had a plan?
Are we close to administration if we go down?
If we go down do we still pay Randy back at the same rate?
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I read in the Post yesterday that Wanker was 3rd on the West Midlands 'Rich list'
Is calling him 'wanker' really necessary?
Yes.
i dont think it is appropriate, grow up!
'Grow up'
It seems to be a default reply on here.
Calling him that is mild compared to what i'd like to say, he's clearly washing his hands of the club, that in itself wouldn't be so bad, but when you take into account all the bullshit we've heard previously, 'he's a custodian', 'He's got a Villa Tattoo' etc etc.
We were told ad nauseum by The General that Randy 'loved the club' but the scales have now fell from our eyes and we can now see that this was all somewhat of a faddish hobby for him that he wants to shove up in the loft and ignore.
To me, he's down there with the sort of person who switches support to another team at the drop of a hat.
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A good example of the terrible way the club is run is Jean Makoun.
He's a player we spent £4m and a decent wage on, but where the fuck is he? On loan in Greece, then in France, then we hear he can't come back here because he wouldn't get a work permit.
Someone might be paying a chunk of his wages, but we're ultimately going watch yet another player we played decent money for walk away for nothing.
Why wasn't someone at the club thinking about the implication of sending him on loan, re his work permit?
Why does this sort of thing (players costing us a fortune, contributing fuck all, walking away for nothing) seem to happen to us so often?
Can you imagine Arsenal under David Dein letting that happen? Or any other club with a half decent football administrator in charge, for that matter?
I think that's a great example of the issues that constantly changing manager creates. There has to be a period of stability and a manager be given the time and space to do things his way. I don't know if it wil work or not, you can never be sure with a new manager. However, I do know that the last few seasons have been like an episode of The Thick of It and sacking Lambert now would put the tin lid on the omnishambles that is Aston Villa.
We do need to have a clear philosophy as a club that each manager we appoint works towards instead of a change in philosophy and direction with each new manager we get in.
Precisely. A lack of one is why we've won next to bugger-all for 30 years. No continuity, no direction, no building of a style of play which one could describe as "The Villa way". Lurching from one short-term solution, which almost always end ignominiously (SGTmkI aside), to the next. I genuinely believed in Randy to be the man to end this. I wonder if Doug did, too? Now I just want him to go. Bright future? Words are cheap.
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No continuity, no direction, no building of a style of play which one could describe as "The Villa way".
What do you think 'hoofing' is?
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No continuity, no direction, no building of a style of play which one could describe as "The Villa way".
What do you think 'hoofing' is?
That's a bit harsh, Mark.
I know too often we've resorted to hoofing it at Benteke this season, but it has hardly been our style for any considerable period of time.
Maybe under McLeish a touch, but not under Houllier, and I wouldn't even say we did under MON (and you know my opinion of his tactics).
MON wasn't a long ball manager, although you could say that his "tactic" of endless hopefully balls into the box is a percentages game, too, so has some similarities.
Just because a style of football isn't based on possession, ball retention, and short passes, doesn't make it hoofing by default.
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No continuity, no direction, no building of a style of play which one could describe as "The Villa way".
What do you think 'hoofing' is?
That's actually made me chuckle a little bit for the first time since Tuesday. Cheers!!
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It all just seems to point to complete mismanagement at board level. Its a complete and utter farce. You can't blame Lerner for not opening his wallet. £200 million is a lot of money. It's just to majority of it seems to have been flushed down the toilet. What do we have to show for that investment? We're in a worse position than when Lerner first took over.
I can't help but wonder, what other clubs like Swansea, Wigan, WBA and Everton would look like if they would have had the kind of money to spend that we have.
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We need a sorting director, it really is that simple, I don't for the life of me understand why we haven't offered the job around.
When we had MoN it made sense because he wanted to be that person as well as the manager and then when Houllier came in I thought the plan was for him to manage us for a year or 2 before moving upstairs and letting Gary Mac take over. Once they decided Houllier had to be replaced though there's seemed to be no move to do anything.
Faulkner has done a good job on the commercial side so lets split his role in half, so make PF the commercial director and get a football person in alongside him.
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Thank you Randy you are completing destroying us. We are now a complete and utter embarrassment and barely have a player justified in wearing the shirt. You should be fucking ashamed of yourself, you're an absolute joke.
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Don't worry Randy wouldn't have had a stream to watch today,I doubt anybody at the club told him we were playing.
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It could be a very long time before Aston Villa is a name to be feared. It will take a long time to undo the damage that has been done to our good name.
If we are going down like this, I'd rather it was as a club controlled by the fans than as a club controlled by an incompetent, silent, absentee owner who doesn't give a shit.
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We need a sorting director, it really is that simple, I don't for the life of me understand why we haven't offered the job around.
When we had MoN it made sense because he wanted to be that person as well as the manager and then when Houllier came in I thought the plan was for him to manage us for a year or 2 before moving upstairs and letting Gary Mac take over. Once they decided Houllier had to be replaced though there's seemed to be no move to do anything.
Faulkner has done a good job on the commercial side so lets split his role in half, so make PF the commercial director and get a football person in alongside him.
A sorting director has Randy bought the Royal mail?
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We need a sorting director, it really is that simple, I don't for the life of me understand why we haven't offered the job around.
When we had MoN it made sense because he wanted to be that person as well as the manager and then when Houllier came in I thought the plan was for him to manage us for a year or 2 before moving upstairs and letting Gary Mac take over. Once they decided Houllier had to be replaced though there's seemed to be no move to do anything.
Faulkner has done a good job on the commercial side so lets split his role in half, so make PF the commercial director and get a football person in alongside him.
A sorting director has Randy bought the Royal mail?
Just imagine him managing the Royal Mail!!! Would probably end up running that to the ground (even more so than it is already). If the current Villa side were a letter it would be a second class one, posted in 2007, having been via Manchester and Bradford when it should have gone to Wembley and discovered, crumpled up in the back of a sorting machine with the contents ripped open and the birthday money missing.
Mind you, the postboy at Villa probably has better footballing judgement than the current board...
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I don't get all this 'you can't blame lerner, he's wasted all his money' stuff. Loads of owners pour money down the drain for no reward and keep coming back. The figures aren't comparable but Whelan, Coates, Ashley...they've all splashed out on mid-table finishes and semi-finals.
If Lerner came into club ownership thinking he was going to make a profit, then he's more of a gormless prick than I thought.
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I don't get all this 'you can't blame lerner, he's wasted all his money' stuff. Loads of owners pour money down the drain for no reward and keep coming back. The figures aren't comparable but Whelan, Coates, Ashley...they've all splashed out on mid-table finishes and semi-finals.
If Lerner came into club ownership thinking he was going to make a profit, then he's more of a gormless prick than I thought.
Agree, gormless just about sums Lerner up. The B'ham Mail has an article today on his totally underwhelming 10 year tenure at the Cleveland Browns. Most of their fans breathed a huge sigh of relief when he recently sold-up. I just wish he'd sell-up at VP. I'd love to be a shareholder once again - the current 'total' owner is a complete and utter disgrace to the name Aston Villa.
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I don't get all this 'you can't blame lerner, he's wasted all his money' stuff. Loads of owners pour money down the drain for no reward and keep coming back. The figures aren't comparable but Whelan, Coates, Ashley...they've all splashed out on mid-table finishes and semi-finals.
If Lerner came into club ownership thinking he was going to make a profit, then he's more of a gormless prick than I thought.
Agree, gormless just about sums Lerner up. The B'ham Mail has an article today on his totally underwhelming 10 year tenure at the Cleveland Browns. Most of their fans breathed a huge sigh of relief when he recently sold-up. I just wish he'd sell-up at VP. I'd love to be a shareholder once again - the current 'total' owner is a complete and utter disgrace to the name Aston Villa.
I posted somewhere a while back that we've become the Aston Browns and that Mail article (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/aston-villa-randy-lerner-has-heard-1243683) reveals pretty accurate parallels between the Browns and us
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Lerner has turned out to be a typical spoilt rich kid. Plenty of cash to chuck around on a vanity project but not the vision and maturity to make a success of it. The difference between Lerner and the Arabs at Citeh is that they decided to hand the running of the club over to capable professionals who put a strong management structure in place.
So much for a Cambridge/Harvard education when you run out of drive and ambition.
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is it coincidental that randy has pulled back on spending since the man city folk turned up?
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The difference between Lerner and the Arabs at Citeh is that they decided to hand the running of the club over to capable professionals who put a strong management structure in place.
Bang on. Loathsome as Garry Cook might have been in many respects, he put in place a structure that worked and continues to work. Sure it is backed up with almost unlimited spending power, but there is a structure and, just as importantly, football people are at the heart of it.
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The difference between Lerner and the Arabs at Citeh is that they decided to hand the running of the club over to capable professionals who put a strong management structure in place.
Bang on. Loathsome as Garry Cook might have been in many respects, he put in place a structure that worked and continues to work. Sure it is backed up with almost unlimited spending power, but there is a structure and, just as importantly, football people are at the heart of it.
Valid points, but if the Abu Dhabi investment portfolio collapsed tomorrow and all Man Citys players pissed off elsewhere, leading to the team going into freefall, would anybody still be speaking of Garry Cook and their management structure in such glowing terms?
I think money has more to do with making a garden look rosy than some want to believe.
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is it coincidental that randy has pulled back on spending since the man city folk turned up?
I've always thought this but it demonstrates pretty poor planning if true. It's a little foolish to predicate your whole plan on no more rich kids turning up to the party.
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Nice Article from the Guardian
If Doug Ellis were still in charge, it is fair to say we know what would have happened by now. The knock on Paul Lambert's door would have come the morning after the night before. And when I say the night before, I mean the Bradford match rather than the ignominy that followed at Millwall. Men of considerable wealth do not tend to appreciate being shown up in public. The lawyers would have been notified. Then Lambert would have been escorted to the exit, his belongings sent on in a Jiffy bag.
Unintentional apparently, but the Birmingham Post certainly rubbed a motorway gritter's worth of salt into a very open wound when it announced Randy Lerner was fifth in the newspaper's annual rich list last Wednesday. No doubt Aston Villa's supporters were thrilled to learn that the club's increasingly elusive owner had added another £300m to his fortune, taking his personal worth to £1.1bn, as they tried to make sense of how Bradford City, from the puddles and potholes of League Two, had left them on their knees.
It does raise the question about whether Lerner should still count as an honorary Brummie when he has pretty much been running Villa by remote control from his place in Manhattan and it is difficult to find anyone who can be sure when he next intends to pay us a visit.
He was not at Millwall on Friday for the latest ordeal in a season of basic ineptitude that is threatening to leave England's second city, as they still like to call themselves, without a top-division team for the first time in a quarter of a century. He was not at Villa Park to see the meltdown against Bradford and the incongruous sight of a fourth division team celebrating in front of a stand where the two tiers are divided by a banner carrying Brian Moore's commentary from the 1982 European Cup final: "Shaw … Williams prepared to venture down the left. There's a good ball. Played in for Tony Morley. Oh, it must be! And it is! Peter Withe!"
History now. Memories of another century.
Ordinarily, Villa's supporters might be able to take some form of malicious pleasure about the crisis that has taken hold of Birmingham City now their owner, Carson Yeung, has had his assets frozen ahead of his April trial in Hong Kong for his alleged part in a money-laundering venture.
Birmingham's problems navigating a way from one payday to the next certainly put Villa's into context. The entire squad at St Andrew's is for sale, at discount prices, before Thursday's transfer deadline. The club turned down a £6m bid from Southampton for Jack Butland last summer because they valued him at twice that amount. Now they would accept £2.5m. Nineteen players are out of contract at the end of the season. A 20th, Paul Robinson, becomes a free agent today. All but three of their 29 signings since dropping out of the Premier League in 2011 have been freebies, loans or short-term arrangements. It is a tangled mess that could very easily lead them to the weed-strewn car parks of League One next season.
Villa, though, are in no position for schadenfreude. The whole of football is rubbernecking in their direction now. Their manager is not wearing the stress well. The crowd are restless, bordering on mutiny but holding back for now. All the signs are in place of a relegation waiting to happen and this, remember, is no longer the era of the yo-yo club. The string has snapped if you look at Bolton, Blackburn and Wolves, for example. All relegated last season, all now in the lower half of the Championship.
More than anything, there is this sense that Lerner has let his interest in the club slide since those early days when he talked such a good game and demonstrated his commitment by having the rampant lion, taken from the club crest, tattooed below his sock-line.
His last appearance was the 3-0 home defeat to Wigan four days after Christmas. Nobody sees Lerner having a quiet pint in the Holte pub these days. The club have become secretive about his scheduling, just like Chelsea when Roman Abramovich is going through one of his more elusive spells. Nobody seems to know if Lerner will be at Villa Park on Wednesday, when Newcastle's visit brings together two sides straying dangerously close to full-on collapse.
Presumably he would contest any allegations of losing interest and, to give him his due, there had been a £200m outlay before he stopped coming to the table and brought in a new strategy built to a large degree on developing academy players.
He might also point out the overall wage bill in the 2010-11 season was £25m higher than Everton's and that there are only three clubs – Manchester City, Chelsea and Stoke – above Villa in the transfer table of net spend over the past five years.
Yet Villa have made their worst start to a season in 43 years and it has been clear ever since that, if he was indeed still listening, a message needed to be absorbed before the damage reached the stage when it started to look irreparable. As it stands, four days away from the transfer window clanking shut, we might already have reached that point. Who, seriously, would be taken aback now if Villa, confidence shot to pieces, could not clamber out of the Premier League's quicksands?
That is not to say the only antidote whenever a club runs into trouble is to write another cheque. It can help, though. Villa are fourth from bottom, with the worst defence in the league and 19 goals scored from their 23 games. At least Reading, directly below them, have some degree of momentum. Wigan have shown a few times that they understand the spirit of togetherness that is needed for an end-of-season feat of escapology. Even QPR are showing flickers of recovery.
Yet Lerner says nothing. The Birmingham Mail has already delivered a list of questions (No1: Are you still committed to Aston Villa?) and been ignored. Trying to explain another ghastly embarrassment on Friday, Lambert shunned every question from its correspondent. Four times he looked the other way and left the Millwall pressroom suspended in awkward silence.
It was pathetic stuff. In his position, Lambert might be better advised trying to ingratiate himself with the local paper rather than masquerading as a junior Sir Alex Ferguson.
In Lerner's case, he has no duty to be heard. There is nothing that says a football club's owner should be accessible to the media and public. Yet it might at least give him the chance to demonstrate he is still committed, determined to put it right and not planning to have his tattoo removed by laser. Turning up on Wednesday might be a start.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/26/randy-lerner-aston-villa-paul-lambert?CMP=twt_gu
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'England's second city, as they still like to call themselves'
Do they? I wonder why the hell that would be. It couldn't have anything to do with...you know...size or..or population or anything?
Good article otherwise, but to hell with the Guardian's snarky Mancophilia.
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A very good article. The whole thing is far too much in the open to be allowed to continue and by that I mean the manner in which Lerner is so remote, like a General who sits in the office while his troops are at war. There is no implied reference to General Krulak here, by the way.
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What was that 'england's second city' comment all about? He's made a bit of an arse of himself there.
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What was that 'england's second city' comment all about? He's made a bit of an arse of himself there.
I tried giving it the benefit of the doubt, and thinking maybe he believes cities with nicknames are passé.
But then that just makes him a snob, which is not much better.
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What was that 'england's second city' comment all about? He's made a bit of an arse of himself there.
It is a pity that he had to put that dig in there. In just dilutes the weight of the article.
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was it more about the potentual of not
being a premiership club from the city ?
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The Guardian is, and always has been, a Manchester paper. Read nothing else into it. It is probably editorial policy to refer to Birmingham in that way.
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I rather think there's more to be upset about in this article than worrying whether the late-of-Manchester Guardian thinks Birmingham is worthy of the accolade Second City or not.
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The whole football community is agog at Lerner's destruction of the club.
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What was that 'england's second city' comment all about? He's made a bit of an arse of himself there.
It is a pity that he had to put that dig in there. In just dilutes the weight of the article.
Typical Guardian snobby bollocks.
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Typical Guardian snobby bollocks.
Just imagine if the Torygraph had written a piece then.
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Typical Guardian snobby bollocks.
Just imagine if the Torygraph had written a piece then.
Just imagine......but they didn't.
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What was that 'england's second city' comment all about? He's made a bit of an arse of himself there.
It is a pity that he had to put that dig in there. In just dilutes the weight of the article.
Typical Guardian snobby bollocks.
Forget the politics and stick to the football.
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In all the anguish that the Villa have inflicted this week, the most depressing thought occurred to me today: the person who saw through Lerner (and Faulkner) first was O'Neill. And perhaps in all the bile we've collectively spilt in his direction, we failed to see the bleeding obvious.
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In all the anguish that the Villa have inflicted this week, the most depressing thought occurred to me today: the person who saw through Lerner (and Faulkner) first was O'Neill. And perhaps in all the bile we've collectively spilt in his direction, we failed to see the bleeding obvious.
He coulda feckin said something, then!
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I rather think there's more to be upset about in this article than worrying whether the late-of-Manchester Guardian thinks Birmingham is worthy of the accolade Second City or not.
Indeed. Jesus, one throw away line is hardly anything to get upset about in the grand scheme of things.
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Calm down, calm down. Everyone knows Birmingham is the real third city. Second is London. First is Manchester - only because nothing can come before first. If it could, Manchester would be that. Manchester invented New York and shat Tokyo. And Berlin.
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In all the anguish that the Villa have inflicted this week, the most depressing thought occurred to me today: the person who saw through Lerner (and Faulkner) first was O'Neill. And perhaps in all the bile we've collectively spilt in his direction, we failed to see the bleeding obvious.
I've thought this for 2 years, MON could see what numpties they were so decided to get out before the shit really starting flying - RL probably started breaking a few contractually agreed promises too, hence his subsequent litigation and settlement.
Might be putting 2 and 2 together to make 5 but knowing what we know now there's no way MON would have continued under these circumstances so didn't want to wait around to experience it in all it's glory.
Also hence MON's rather conciliatory tone towards us last season.
Don't get me wrong, MON still spunked the best opportunity a Villa Manager has had since Big Ron's days but if you look at it like that his decision was more based out of common sense than spite.
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Agree, gormless just about sums Lerner up.
What exactly is gorm? Is it bad not to have any gorm?
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Don't get me wrong, MON still spunked the best opportunity a Villa Manager has had since Big Ron's days but if you look at it like that his decision was more based out of common sense than spite.
That'd stand up to scrutiny if it weren't for the fact that MON and Lerner agreed the parameters under which we'd move forward at the start of the summer.
He promised he'd sell some players on, do some wheeling and dealing. He then spent the pre-season looking miserable (anyone remember the state of his face in the match against Valencia?), and doing very little, and flounced out five days before the start of the season.
Five days. That is spite, pure and simple.
Our problems are now increasingly less to do with O'Neill, but you're kidding yourself if you think this process didn't start with his utter fucking spite in doing what he did.
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*spits venomously on the floor*
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Not Villa related but nice to see an owner coming clean, Tony Fernandes of QPR, I'm friends with him on Facebook as he also owns Caterham Cars.
'Many fans attacking me. Doing our best. As I said we won't stop trying. As I have said many times I take all responsibility and will face the music'
There you go Randy, not hard was it?
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He promised he'd sell some players on, do some wheeling and dealing. He then spent the pre-season looking miserable (anyone remember the state of his face in the match against Valencia?), and doing very little, and flounced out five days before the start of the season.
It was prior to that Valencia game when he, supposedly, erupted at Sharon Barnhurst for having the cheek to phone him while he was in the changing rooms before the match. Something to do with some tickets for his wife. It was a very unsavoury incident. He stated that he wanted her sacked, we are told, but this did not go down well with Lerner.
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He promised he'd sell some players on, do some wheeling and dealing. He then spent the pre-season looking miserable (anyone remember the state of his face in the match against Valencia?), and doing very little, and flounced out five days before the start of the season.
It was prior to that Valencia game when he, supposedly, erupted at Sharon Barnhurst for having the cheek to phone him while he was in the changing rooms before the match. Something to do with some tickets for his wife. It was a very unsavoury incident. He stated that he wanted her sacked, we are told, but this did not go down well with Lerner.
You old whistleblower! :)
Beware - mons lawyer may be lurking .
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My MON anecdote is that my old Manager used to knock round in a circle of friends, in which he was included. This was in his Leicester days. I asked her what she thought about him.
'He will argue black is blue that he's right about something, even if he's patently wrong, he never used to see anybody else's point of view at all, could be quite arrogant as well.'
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My MON anecdote is that my old Manager used to knock round in a circle of friends, in which he was included. This was in his Leicester days. I asked her what she thought about him.
'He will argue black is blue that he's right about something, even if he's patently wrong, he never used to see anybody else's point of view at all, could be quite arrogant as well.'
I've got pretty much the opposite view to that but the chap I know is a friend and scouted for Martin (I know most on here will not have respect for one of Martins scouts)
No matter what people say about him, I think he was treated badly and had justification for what he did, not that its impact on us as fans was very nice.
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In our collective depression let's not rewrite history as to why MON left. He didn't get his way and he fucked off. I supported him during his time here and felt was unfairly criticised at times. But he left us high and dry with 5 days to the season. That is inexcusable and in fact, I think he regrets it. We are biggest job he will ever have and had he just cooperated we'd still be top 6 or 7 in the PL. Instead he was who he is and while an admirable trait at times it led to him being too pig headed to see what still could have been. For all of us, it could have been so very different.
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In our collective depression let's not rewrite history as to why MON left. He didn't get his way and he fucked off. I supported him during his time here and felt was unfairly criticised at times. But he left us high and dry with 5 days to the season. That is inexcusable and in fact, I think he regrets it. We are biggest job he will ever have and had he just cooperated we'd still be top 6 or 7 in the PL. Instead he was who he is and while an admirable trait at times it led to him being too pig headed to see what still could have been. For all of us, it could have been so very different.
[In our collective depression let's not rewrite history as to why MON left. He didn't get his way and he fucked off. I supported him during his time here and felt was unfairly criticised at times. But he left us high and dry with 5 days to the season. That is inexcusable and in fact, I think he regrets it. We are biggest job he will ever have and had he just cooperated we'd still be top 6 or 7 in the PL. Instead he was who he is and while an admirable trait at times it led to him being too pig headed to see what still could have been. For all of us, it could have been so very different.
In our collective depression let's not rewrite history as to why MON left. He didn't get his way and he fucked off. I supported him during his time here and felt was unfairly criticised at times. But he left us high and dry with 5 days to the season. That is inexcusable and in fact, I think he regrets it. We are biggest job he will ever have and had he just cooperated we'd still be top 6 or 7 in the PL. Instead he was who he is and while an admirable trait at times it led to him being too pig headed to see what still could have been. For all of us, it could have been so very different.
Perhaps as a Villa fan it is inexcusable.
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Not sure why its putting what I write within the other text. Done it a few times lately. Odd.
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Not sure why its putting what I write within the other text. Done it a few times lately. Odd.
Not using an iPhone are you?
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Not sure why its putting what I write within the other text. Done it a few times lately. Odd.
Not using an iPhone are you?
nope on pc. Its done it a number of times in last few days, at first I thought I'd made a mistake.
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My MON anecdote is that my old Manager used to knock round in a circle of friends, in which he was included. This was in his Leicester days. I asked her what she thought about him.
'He will argue black is blue that he's right about something, even if he's patently wrong, he never used to see anybody else's point of view at all...
Sounds like most of the folk on here. ;)
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I think he's had enough and is cutting back to save cash, can't blame him he has spent a fortune on fuck all. I blame Martin O' Neil for spunking the cash and not getting Champions League Football when we had a chance. He knew he'd fucked it up and left before anyone noticed. We are now the new Leeds.
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Who can blame him, well me for one, bad business decisions made by a bad business man, that now are having a terminal effect on the football club that I love, there is not one supporter of this great club who has made those decisions, tattoo on leg or not, it is a business man that employs friends rather than qualified football people, that allowed MON to play with his money and now he sits and watches while Villa burns.
Please Randy time to call it a day and if not now at the end of the season, so at least we have a chance to rebuild with people who know the game at the helm, not someone who as each day goes bye, seems to get further and further out of his depth. Proud History, you have destroyed our immediate future.
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Its not going to be too long before we start having a go at Randy. A proper go. He has got away with it thus far but its simmering undeerneath. We are walking around a little dazed at the moment wondering how they have allowed our team to get so poor. We can't just keep sacking managers and then give them little to work with. As has been said elsewhere the squad has been overhauled and what has been left is not very much. Its okay to rely on players coming through but they should have been brought through with more experienced players so that they could be dropped, or 'rested', when the need is there.
But, as we sleepwalk to relegation the first absolutely vital 6 pointer that pushes us closer to no way back, then I think the fans will vent their fury. Lerner needs to look to sell. The problem here is that it will only come after anger fromt he fans. That, in turn, may force his hand. But, if that is the case i hope he doesn't become like an ex-partner with a chip on his shoulder following a divorce. He could decide to get all of his money back out - at an iterest rate that is acceptable to him - which would in turn make us look less desirable to buy.
Unless a big billionaire is in the pipeline we are stuck with him for a while. And he's killing us.
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He's destroying us, pure and simple.
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Surely the priority should have been to stay in the Premier League and then address the salaries, not the other way around?
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Out of his depth in a sport he has no understanding of.
Anyone with any integrity would be looking for a buyer.
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I think it is quite simple what has happened with Randy. He bought the club in 2006 and invested well over the next few years. These were the days of the 'Big 4' and it looked like Arsenal and Liverpool were there for the taking. We got close a couple of times and with an extra injection of cash probably would have got into the sacred land of the top 4, if wasn't for the big X-factor, being Man City.
Since Man City were taking over and started spending their silly money, the whole thing changed. Randy wasn't willing to match their millions, which was fair enough.
It is what he did since that makes me angry with him. At this point he decided we were paying our players too much and that the wage bill needed to be slashed dramatically. A lot of people seem to blame MON for this, which I don't quite understand. Randy is the man who signs the cheques etc. Either he gave MON free reign to offer what he wanted or else he ratified every deal - either way he is culpable of the wage bill getting out of hand, if that's what it was.
Ever since, he has stripped the squad for parts, bringing in the flimsiest of supports to keep us in the league (with the exception of Bent) and now the whole thing looks like it's going to come crashing down on top of him.
I knew at the time MON walked there was something up with Randy. The fact that MON was compensated through settlement after an Employees Appeal Tribunal, shows that he had a valid grievance. We may never know the facts of what happened there (I don't believe most of what the internet warriors say they heard). MON's conduct in leaving at the time was at best disrespectful, but there is no way it can be used as an excuse for the club being in the state it's in now.
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Zakk Fatt
This is the thread for Randy Lerner.
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He came in, thought we could qualify for Champions League, we haven't, now we can't spend as much as we did (more than most, less than others) and he appointed a couple of poor managers.
Don't understand what people want him to speak out for? We clearly haven't got the money, so why bother asking. If you ask why he appointed GH & AM then he'd probably tell you they were a mistake, so what can you say to that?
The club, from a business point of view, is being run so it doesn't go bust after an initial outlay to try and improve it.
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A charlatan and a fraud. A pox on his bleedin' house. Same goes for his ginger weasel.
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A ITK on VillaTalk is saying the sh*t is about to hit the fan at Villa Park, he claims first hand knowledge from "The highest possible source" that Lerner is about to f*ck over Aston Villa in a very big way, that staff at VP all despise him, and all the Lerner apologists will be turned on their heads this summer...
Anyone on here hearing similar murmurings?
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Just read the post and he seems genuine enough. Aside from calling in his debt I cant see what Lerner could do that's going to 'fuck us over' that much
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A ITK on VillaTalk is saying the sh*t is about to hit the fan at Villa Park, he claims first hand knowledge from "The highest possible source" that Lerner is about to f*ck over Aston Villa in a very big way, that staff at VP all despise him, and all the Lerner apologists will be turned on their heads this summer...
Anyone on here hearing similar murmurings?
Fire sale, fire the current executives, maybe pull the strings and sell it off.. what else could there be?
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A ITK on VillaTalk is saying the sh*t is about to hit the fan at Villa Park, he claims first hand knowledge from "The highest possible source" that Lerner is about to f*ck over Aston Villa in a very big way, that staff at VP all despise him, and all the Lerner apologists will be turned on their heads this summer...
Anyone on here hearing similar murmurings?
I'll take that with a pinch of salt.
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A ITK on VillaTalk is saying the sh*t is about to hit the fan at Villa Park, he claims first hand knowledge from "The highest possible source" that Lerner is about to f*ck over Aston Villa in a very big way, that staff at VP all despise him, and all the Lerner apologists will be turned on their heads this summer...
Anyone on here hearing similar murmurings?
I'll take that with a pinch of salt.
Same here. You know what they say about mushrooms..
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that Lerner is about to f*ck over Aston Villa in a very big way
Really?
I thought he'd already done it?
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I'd question that 'The staff at Villa Park despise him' statement.
That's unlikely, considering he's hardly ever there.
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Don't really believe it but we should keep an eye on it at the end of the season. Nothing would surprise me with Lerner at the moment.
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I just looked up the original post on VT. Posted at 1:38 in the morning and erratic in style to say the least.
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I'd question that 'The staff at Villa Park despise him' statement.
That's unlikely, considering he's hardly ever there.
That was my first thought when I read it
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that Lerner is about to f*ck over Aston Villa in a very big way
Really?
I thought he'd already done it?
Exactly! that was his 5 year plan
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Lerners just waived a £20m payment hasn't be? Hardly the action of a man about to do dastardly things to the club .
Could he be about to rip off a rubber mask and his suit and reveal himself as jasper carrot in a blues kit?
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Lerners just waived a £20m payment hasn't be? Hardly the action of a man about to do dastardly things to the club .
Could he be about to rip off a rubber mask and his suit and reveal himself as jasper carrot in a blues kit?
Quite.
Why don't people stop and think before either writing or believing this stuff? Screw the club by calling in the debts? After writing off the interest? And, out of interest, where is the money (in a company he owns) going to be found to pay back the loans (which are owed to him)?
The money isn't there. I guess he could theoretically load the club with loans from elsewhere to pay him back, but if he's that determined to screw us, why would he just have waived 20m the club owed him?
Also, any post made which matches these criteria:
1. Made in early hours of morning
2. Made on VillaTalk
immediately looks less credible.
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Never mind, that Canadian zillionaire will be in charge by then and save us all.
Why does someone go to the trouble of registering here just to post this nonsense?
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I'd also suggest a look at some of the previous posts that bloke made.
In one, he's claiming that the only reason Lerner wrote off the 20m interest was "because it makes it easier to sell up", which kind of misses the point.
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Never mind, that Canadian zillionaire will be in charge by then and save us all.
I'm waiting for the blokes who run that curry house in Sutton Qataris to complete their takeover.
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Why does someone go to the trouble of registering here just to post this nonsense?
No, i don't get it either, especially people who claim to be 'ITK' and clearly are not.
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"people will instantly know where its come from". How? Surely it's not beyond the wit of even the drunkest of people who's just got back from the pub where they were watching the Goners to at least hint at something without implicating all and sundry? Why is it that "ITKs" only ever claim to have devastatingly bad news? I have waaay too much time on my hands these days, so, to fill it and to do something useful for society as a whole, I'm going to start compiling their "facts", find out where they live, then, once the bollocks they've spouted is exposed as such, I shall knock their door and call them a cnut to their face. As, with their implied tone, I feel like that's what they're doing to me.
But if they're right, I'll get them a cake.
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Regardless of the financial issue, Lerner is certainly getting an easy time of it compared to when Ellis was at the helm and being harangued by all and sundry.
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Regardless of the financial issue, Lerener is certainly getting an easy time of it compared to when Ellis was at the helm and being harangued by all and sundry.
Probably because Ellis was here and visible whereas randy is 1000s of miles away.
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Regardless of the financial issue, Lerener is certainly getting an easy time of it compared to when Ellis was at the helm and being harangued by all and sundry.
Probably because Ellis was here and visible whereas randy is 1000s of miles away.
Or because Ellis spent years at the helm of the Villa holding the club back and lining his own pockets.
Or because Ellis was such a big Villa fan he joined the board at the Blues.
Or because the most successful event in our club's history coincided with the time he wasn't involved. And as soon as he got back involved relegation quickly followed.
Randy's got a long way to go before he's anything like as bad as Ellis was.
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Regardless of the financial issue, Lerener is certainly getting an easy time of it compared to when Ellis was at the helm and being harangued by all and sundry.
Probably because Ellis was here and visible whereas randy is 1000s of miles away.
Or because Ellis spent years at the helm of the Villa holding the club back and lining his own pockets.
Or because Ellis was such a big Villa fan he joined the board at the Blues.
Or because the most successful event in our club's history coincided with the time he wasn't involved. And as soon as he got back involved relegation quickly followed.
Randy's got a long way to go before he's anything like as bad as Ellis was.
Interesting you state the bad things but none of the good things there. Doug did good as well as bad in his reign , we won a couple of trophies and came close to the title on more than one occasion as well as the lows you mentioned.
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Doug did good as well as bad in his reign , we won a couple of trophies and came close to the title on more than one occasion as well as the lows you mentioned.
Yeah, and he made the trains run on time.
^^^ selfgodwinisation ^^^
although the trains thing was Mussolini, and I am pretty sure Godwin is Nazis only.
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Interesting you state the bad things but none of the good things there. Doug did good as well as bad in his reign , we won a couple of trophies and came close to the title on more than one occasion .
We came close to the title in seasons when, if Ellis had actually shown commitment to the cause, we may well have won the title.
The mid/late-90s was the critical time for football in this country. That's when the big TV money started rolling in and the Champions League expanded. We started off the 90s finishing twice in three seasons. Over the course of the 90s Ellis's continued underinvestment in the club whilst he took his more than generous rewards out of it meant that we steadily dropped out of the magic top 4 and let clubs like Arsenal overtake us.
If Ellis had invested when we were almost there rather than wait until the fans demanded he sell up we might be dissapointed at being knocked out of the Champions League having just beaten Bayern Munich in their back yard rather than sweating over a home game against bottom of the league QPR.
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If Ellis had invested when we were almost there rather than wait until the fans demanded he sell up we might be dissapointed at being knocked out of the Champions League having just beaten Bayern Munich in their back yard rather than sweating over a home game against bottom of the league QPR.
I am not going to defend Ellis, but the fans were demanding he sell up for about twenty years, weren't they?
Ellis said he'd leave Villa Park in a coffin - the intimation being that he'd do it on his own terms, and when he wanted or needed to - and that is exactly what happened. He left on his own terms, and not a minute earlier.
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And with £30 million in his pocket. He beat us all.
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So Lerner's not as bad a Ellis.
That's hardly a ringing endorsment of Randy's achievements over the last 5 years.
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So Lerner's not as bad a Ellis.
That's hardly a ringing endorsment of Randy's achievements over the last 5 years.
He should have it printed on a T-shirt
'I'm not Ellis.'
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I think regarding the title crack in 90 if we had signed sheringham rather than his partner cascarino we would probably have won the title that year and if we hadn't lost graham to the England post we would probably have won the title during his reign.
Neither of those things can be blamed on doug , many people say if we had bought Keane we would have gone close to a title under Gregory but in his book John says doug was happy to spend the money and it was Gregory who pulled the plug.
We were hardly scroogelike in the 90s when it cane to signing players, ie, merson, collymore, Dublin etc.
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I think regarding the title crack in 90 if we had signed sheringham rather than his partner cascarino we would probably have won the title that year and if we hadn't lost graham to the England post we would probably have won the title during his reign.
Neither of those things can be blamed on doug , many people say if we had bought Keane we would have gone close to a title under Gregory but in his book John says doug was happy to spend the money and it was Gregory who pulled the plug.
We were hardly scroogelike in the 90s when it cane to signing players, ie, merson, collymore, Dublin etc.
Merson and Dublin were bought with the Yorke money. And we also had another spending spree funded by the floatation of the club.
In retrospect, Ellis is probably the owners equivalent of MON - did things in an old afshioned way that got success to a point, but wasn't enough to go that extra yard and actually get to the top of the tree.
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I think regarding the title crack in 90 if we had signed sheringham rather than his partner cascarino we would probably have won the title that year and if we hadn't lost graham to the England post we would probably have won the title during his reign.
Neither of those things can be blamed on doug , many people say if we had bought Keane we would have gone close to a title under Gregory but in his book John says doug was happy to spend the money and it was Gregory who pulled the plug.
We were hardly scroogelike in the 90s when it cane to signing players, ie, merson, collymore, Dublin etc.
Merson and Dublin were bought with the Yorke money. And we also had another spending spree funded by the floatation of the club.
In retrospect, Ellis is probably the owners equivalent of MON - did things in an old afshioned way that got success to a point, but wasn't enough to go that extra yard and actually get to the top of the tree.
Fair comment, I'm not holding Ellis up as a great owner and chairman just saying its a bit naff to only list the bad things that happened under him - there were some highs as well.
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And with £30 million in his pocket. He beat us all.
It still agitates me that one of the stands at Villa Park carries his name.
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Lerners stewardship of the club gets some unfair criticsm, RL`s one major strategic blunder was appointing Alex Mcleish in the face of violent opposition, not giving MON the Milner cash was entirely understandable, and probably necessary for the good of the clubs finances, no-one expected MON to quit in the manner he did, which is where it all started to unravel, the Houlier appointment was ill-starred for obvious reasons, but where did the club take medical advice regarding his Heart condition?. Lerner has spent a significant, if diminishing amount of money on a club who`s average gates are not colossal by any means, He delivered Paul Lambert as the overwhelming fans choice after Mcleish was dismissed, where Lerner needs to improve is in his PR which is non existent at a time when the club needs visible leadership.
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What worries most me is this Mushroom person's location. B17.
I was born on Harborne.
It could explain a few things I suppose.
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Lerners stewardship of the club gets some unfair criticsm, RL`s one major strategic blunder was appointing Alex Mcleish in the face of violent opposition, not giving MON the Milner cash was entirely understandable, and probably necessary for the good of the clubs finances, no-one expected MON to quit in the manner he did, which is where it all started to unravel, the Houlier appointment was ill-starred for obvious reasons, but where did the club take medical advice regarding his Heart condition?. Lerner has spent a significant, if diminishing amount of money on a club who`s average gates are not colossal by any means, He delivered Paul Lambert as the overwhelming fans choice after Mcleish was dismissed, where Lerner needs to improve is in his PR which is non existent at a time when the club needs visible leadership.
Apponting McLeish was a strategic blunder, that much is true (and it's putting it a bit lightly), but I think you're missing the bit where he's really been a failure.
His failure to appoint people at the club with some football nous led to us relying on one manager's word that everything was fine for far too long. There was nobody with an overview keeping an eye on contracts which needed to be renewed, or players which needed to be moved on, other than the manager of the day.
That was his main failure at the Browns, too, poor appointments.
Look how many players we've signed since 2006 who have been on big money, barely featured, sat out the length of their contracts, and walked away for nothing.
Nigel Reo-Coker's total cost to the club, for example, isn't much short of £20m. Then take a look at what the likes of Cuellar, Heskey, and Beye have cost, given that they all walked away for nowt, too.
Don't get me wrong, Lerner didn't choose those players, but Lerner also didn't put anyone in at the club to make sure this sort of wastage didn't happen. When he finally did stick a Chief Executive in and give him this job, it turned out to be someone who had previously run a call centre for MBNA and who knew nothing about the game.
Being a good chairman isn't only about putting money in, it is about running the club well, and on that front, he's made a catalogue of costly errors that have left us where we are today.
Really poor.
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regarding O'Neill, he was a very popular appointment and while it can be argued that he should have had a "football man" upstairs, would O'Neill have even have agreed to join us had that been the case?
On the Browns, Mike Holmgren as General Manager was seen as a very good appointment indeed at the time. A proper football (US) man so to speak to oversee the operations and bring in the right people to run the Browns. It didn't work. You can blame Lerner for a lot of things, but it's questionable if in these two instances he can be blamed entirely.
As for McLeish...yikes
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regarding O'Neill, he was a very popular appointment and while it can be argued that he should have had a "football man" upstairs, would O'Neill have even have agreed to join us had that been the case?
On the Browns, Mike Holmgren as General Manager was seen as a very good appointment indeed at the time. A proper football (US) man so to speak to oversee the operations and bring in the right people to run the Browns. It didn't work. You can blame Lerner for a lot of things, but it's questionable if in these two instances he can be blamed entirely.
As for McLeish...yikes
No chance o Neill would have accepted a football man above him- he is old school and likes to be the top man , he wouldn't stand for a director of football type figure .
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regarding O'Neill, he was a very popular appointment and while it can be argued that he should have had a "football man" upstairs, would O'Neill have even have agreed to join us had that been the case?
On the Browns, Mike Holmgren as General Manager was seen as a very good appointment indeed at the time. A proper football (US) man so to speak to oversee the operations and bring in the right people to run the Browns. It didn't work. You can blame Lerner for a lot of things, but it's questionable if in these two instances he can be blamed entirely.
As for McLeish...yikes
It doesnt need to be a total football man upstairs, it could have been a wise headed CEO keeping an eye on the wider picture. Instead, nobody did.
It wasn't just MON era, either.
What kind of consistency saw us try to get Martinez, only to then turn to McLeish? And this after the progress we'd made (finally) in the Houllier season.
Then there's the fact that, having let MON oust two CEOs in Cunnah and FitzGerald, when he finally did appoint one, he appointed someone with next to no relevant experience.
If you leave aside the brake on spending, and look at what we've spent over six or seven years, and look at what we've got left of it now, then some really rubbish management has been going on at the top level.
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Regardless of the financial issue, Lerener is certainly getting an easy time of it compared to when Ellis was at the helm and being harangued by all and sundry.
Probably because Ellis was here and visible whereas randy is 1000s of miles away.
Or because Ellis spent years at the helm of the Villa holding the club back and lining his own pockets.
Or because Ellis was such a big Villa fan he joined the board at the Blues.
Or because the most successful event in our club's history coincided with the time he wasn't involved. And as soon as he got back involved relegation quickly followed.
Randy's got a long way to go before he's anything like as bad as Ellis was.
Interesting you state the bad things but none of the good things there. Doug did good as well as bad in his reign , we won a couple of trophies and came close to the title on more than one occasion as well as the lows you mentioned.
No, you were right. Adam.
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I think RL has been guilty of complacency and naivety. It can't be argued that he's put money up; it's true that the RL / MON ticket was - in 2006 - a dream ticket; there's no question that he's given people the chance to deliver.
The problem is - as Paule says - one of hiring people in his management team who really know the English football scene. Like when we had Steve Stride, whose experience HDE undoubtedly benefitted from.
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Lerner is over here at the moment.
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See latest Caption Competition.
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Ah!
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Lerners stewardship of the club gets some unfair criticsm, RL`s one major strategic blunder was appointing Alex Mcleish in the face of violent opposition, not giving MON the Milner cash was entirely understandable, and probably necessary for the good of the clubs finances, no-one expected MON to quit in the manner he did, which is where it all started to unravel, the Houlier appointment was ill-starred for obvious reasons, but where did the club take medical advice regarding his Heart condition?. Lerner has spent a significant, if diminishing amount of money on a club who`s average gates are not colossal by any means, He delivered Paul Lambert as the overwhelming fans choice after Mcleish was dismissed, where Lerner needs to improve is in his PR which is non existent at a time when the club needs visible leadership.
Apponting McLeish was a strategic blunder, that much is true (and it's putting it a bit lightly), but I think you're missing the bit where he's really been a failure.
His failure to appoint people at the club with some football nous led to us relying on one manager's word that everything was fine for far too long. There was nobody with an overview keeping an eye on contracts which needed to be renewed, or players which needed to be moved on, other than the manager of the day.
That was his main failure at the Browns, too, poor appointments.
Look how many players we've signed since 2006 who have been on big money, barely featured, sat out the length of their contracts, and walked away for nothing.
Nigel Reo-Coker's total cost to the club, for example, isn't much short of £20m. Then take a look at what the likes of Cuellar, Heskey, and Beye have cost, given that they all walked away for nowt, too.
Don't get me wrong, Lerner didn't choose those players, but Lerner also didn't put anyone in at the club to make sure this sort of wastage didn't happen. When he finally did stick a Chief Executive in and give him this job, it turned out to be someone who had previously run a call centre for MBNA and who knew nothing about the game.
Being a good chairman isn't only about putting money in, it is about running the club well, and on that front, he's made a catalogue of costly errors that have left us where we are today.
Really poor.
Appointing a person to effectivley vet potential signings is not ideal, these "Director of football" types almost inevitably lead to friction within clubs, just look at Spurs and Liverpool, theres nothing wrong with a chairman having faith in his managers choices, although, given. that began to backfire badly under MON, the opposite of all this is an Abramovitch type who seems to pressure managers into signing players he likes - often with disasterous results.
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Lerner is over here at the moment.
Maybe he read about Curtis Woodhouse.
Be very afraid, Risso.
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lets hope he boards the titantic 2 for his return journey
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Appointing a person to effectivley vet potential signings is not ideal, these "Director of football" types almost inevitably lead to friction within clubs, just look at Spurs and Liverpool, theres nothing wrong with a chairman having faith in his managers choices, although, given. that began to backfire badly under MON, the opposite of all this is an Abramovitch type who seems to pressure managers into signing players he likes - often with disasterous results.
It can work well, it depends upon attitudes. If we were to go for it I suspect we would appoint the 'dof' first and he would appoint his manager of choice.
O'Neill would not have countenanced it either way, 'manager is all' is very much his era even if 'his era' was probably years before he actually managed.
If Lerner had tried it, or had even exercised his own veto on player purchases, he would have been fried. 'I've saved us from a financial shithouse' would not have gone down well with either supporters or the press at the time.
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Lerners stewardship of the club gets some unfair criticsm, RL`s one major strategic blunder was appointing Alex Mcleish in the face of violent opposition, not giving MON the Milner cash was entirely understandable, and probably necessary for the good of the clubs finances, no-one expected MON to quit in the manner he did, which is where it all started to unravel, the Houlier appointment was ill-starred for obvious reasons, but where did the club take medical advice regarding his Heart condition?. Lerner has spent a significant, if diminishing amount of money on a club who`s average gates are not colossal by any means, He delivered Paul Lambert as the overwhelming fans choice after Mcleish was dismissed, where Lerner needs to improve is in his PR which is non existent at a time when the club needs visible leadership.
Apponting McLeish was a strategic blunder, that much is true (and it's putting it a bit lightly), but I think you're missing the bit where he's really been a failure.
His failure to appoint people at the club with some football nous led to us relying on one manager's word that everything was fine for far too long. There was nobody with an overview keeping an eye on contracts which needed to be renewed, or players which needed to be moved on, other than the manager of the day.
That was his main failure at the Browns, too, poor appointments.
Look how many players we've signed since 2006 who have been on big money, barely featured, sat out the length of their contracts, and walked away for nothing.
Nigel Reo-Coker's total cost to the club, for example, isn't much short of £20m. Then take a look at what the likes of Cuellar, Heskey, and Beye have cost, given that they all walked away for nowt, too.
Don't get me wrong, Lerner didn't choose those players, but Lerner also didn't put anyone in at the club to make sure this sort of wastage didn't happen. When he finally did stick a Chief Executive in and give him this job, it turned out to be someone who had previously run a call centre for MBNA and who knew nothing about the game.
Being a good chairman isn't only about putting money in, it is about running the club well, and on that front, he's made a catalogue of costly errors that have left us where we are today.
Really poor.
Appointing a person to effectivley vet potential signings is not ideal, these "Director of football" types almost inevitably lead to friction within clubs, just look at Spurs and Liverpool, theres nothing wrong with a chairman having faith in his managers choices, although, given. that began to backfire badly under MON, the opposite of all this is an Abramovitch type who seems to pressure managers into signing players he likes - often with disasterous results.
That's not actually what I meant.
I meant someone who, from the business side of things, would ensure that the squad was managed as an asset. Spurs is a very good example. It's not so much any DoF they've had in the past that makes sure they never get stiffed on players, it is Daniel Levy.
Spurs do brilliantly in their transfer dealings, they always seem to get top dollar when they sell players, and handle stuff like loaning out young players to get experience very well, too.
That is something that has persisted across managers there.
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Grauniad (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/mar/15/aston-villa-paul-lambert-randy-lerner)
Aston Villa's Paul Lambert says owner Randy Lerner deserves credit
• Villa manager feels American receives 'unfair criticism'
• Scot wants to stay at club even if they were relegated
Stuart James
The Guardian, Friday 15 March 2013 22.30 GMT
Paul Lambert has robustly defended Randy Lerner ahead of Saturday's critical relegation battle against Queens Park Rangers, with the Aston Villa manager claiming that the much-criticised American owner has "done one hell of a lot for this club".
The Villa manager also praised Lerner for being "straight and honest" with him during a season when three of the other bottom-five clubs have sacked their manager. The most recent of those dismissals came on Monday, when Reading terminated Brian McDermott's contract following the 2-1 defeat against Villa. Lambert felt it was a hugely unfair decision and, highlighting the sacking of Nigel Adkins at Southampton a couple of months earlier, criticised a culture where managers lose their job depending on whether their face fits.
Lambert's own position could hardly be more secure, despite the fact that Villa remain only one place above the bottom three. Having met with Lerner on Thursday, Lambert spoke about the strength of his relationship with the Villa owner, who has been criticised in some quarters for not spending more money in January and also for rarely turning up to see matches.
Asked whether he had feared for his position, Lambert replied: "I don't think you worry about it. I've been in the game long enough to know what happens. But I also know that, going by certain things, you don't always have to win games to [avoid] getting the sack. If your face doesn't fit now and people don't like you...
"But I've got a really good relationship with the chairman here. He's always been straight and honest. He's been very good with me. I think Randy gets unfair criticism, I really do, for someone who has done one hell of a lot for this club. He's a good guy."
The former Norwich manager wants to carry on in charge even if Villa are relegated. "I hope [I can continue]. It's a brilliant club. I love being here. But that will be for other people to decide," he said.
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I agree with Lambert, 'Randy' has done a hell of a lot at the club.
I hope the medical staff at Bodymoor Heath manage to get Lambert's tongue out of his arse in time for today's game.
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Fuckin ell Fletch, that was quick.
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The former Norwich manager wants to carry on in charge even if Villa are relegated. "I hope [I can continue]. It's a brilliant club. I love being here. But that will be for other people to decide," he said.
I thought he was saying a few weeks ago he had been told his job was safe even if relegated ,seems from yesterday's quotes that is by no means guaranteed.
Lets hope for a storming end to the season starting today.
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I agree with Lambert, 'Randy' has done a hell of a lot at the club.
I hope the medical staff at Bodymoor Heath manage to get Lambert's tongue out of his arse in time for today's game.
To be fair, it would take Clough-esque arrogance for Lambert to come out and say Randy put a lot of money in but fucked up by appointing a couple of shit managers before he came to me.
Once you take that failing away there isn't really much you can criticise Randy for.
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Fuckin ell Fletch, that was quick.
Uncanny.
Exactly what my Wife said last night.
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The former Norwich manager wants to carry on in charge even if Villa are relegated. "I hope [I can continue]. It's a brilliant club. I love being here. But that will be for other people to decide," he said.
I thought he was saying a few weeks ago he had been told his job was safe even if relegated ,seems from yesterday's quotes that is by no means guaranteed.
Lets hope for a storming end to the season starting today.
My ideal scenario is:-
He keeps us in the division, hence he get's another crack at it WITH decent funding from 'Randy.'
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lets hope he boards the titantic 2 for his return journey
Isn't he already the captain of a sinking ship?
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Fuckin ell Fletch, that was quick.
Uncanny.
Exactly what my Wife said last night.
It's a cracker!
Singalonga little Paul Simonand dig the mellow groove:
Slow down, you movin' too fast
You gotta make the MORNING last
Just kickin' down the cobblestones
Lookin' for fun and
Feelin' groovy_
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I love Paul Simon, he's Jewish mind, so i'm not too happy about his involvement in Lord Ahmed's dangerous driving charge.
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Randy hasn't had anything like the levels of vitriol Ellis received. As for the face fitting comment, what / who is he referencing? Off thing to say.
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Randy hasn't had anything like the levels of vitriol Ellis received. As for the face fitting comment, what / who is he referencing? Off thing to say.
He's saying McDermott and Adkins weren't pretty enough.