Randy Lerner

[paul_e]

The fans wanted a gambler, not someone living within their means, we'd had that for years and were fed up with the limitations of that approach.  The majority wanted an american abramovich and he tried to be just that.

[Risso]

The fans wanted a gambler, not someone living within their means, we'd had that for years and were fed up with the limitations of that approach.  The majority wanted an american abramovich and he tried to be just that.

You're tying yourself up in knots now.  Either we set sensible spending limits or he tried to be an Abramovitch, the two things are poles apart.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

The fans wanted a gambler, not someone living within their means, we'd had that for years and were fed up with the limitations of that approach.  The majority wanted an american abramovich and he tried to be just that.

You're tying yourself up in knots now.  Either we set sensible spending limits or he tried to be an Abramovitch, the two things are poles apart.

I thought I read somewhere that Chelsea were looking to break even last year after all their crazy investment.

Edit: It appears they posted a (£1.4m) profit last year for the first time since Abramovich took over.

[Chris Smith]

I'm glad other people are viewing it the same way as me, Dave's 'they built it and we didn't come' sums up a big part of it.

They didn't really build anything new though did they?  We'd been well used to 6th placed finishes for a good portion of the Premier League, even including David O'Leary, so it was only probably seen as a return to that level.  A welcome return of course, but nothing over and above what was still reasonably fresh in people's memories.  And certainly nowhere near as good as or exciting as the Atkinson/Little years.

We had 4 successive top half finishes prior to last season so there had clearly been an improvement. The biggest mistake Lerner made, imo, was the muddled thinking that replaced MON with first Houllier and then McLeish. What was needed was a steady hand to oversee the rebuilding and realignment of the wage structure for the changed circumstances. With the clear benefit of hindsight it's obvious that, for differing reasons, neither was wholly suited to the job and lurching from one extreme to the other was a mistake. I believe that with Lambert that has been rectified, but it's going to take more than half a season to fix what had gone before.

I understand that it's not something that comes naturally to all of us [ ;¬) ] but we are going to have to be patient while things are put back on an even keel.

[Risso]

I'm glad other people are viewing it the same way as me, Dave's 'they built it and we didn't come' sums up a big part of it.

They didn't really build anything new though did they?  We'd been well used to 6th placed finishes for a good portion of the Premier League, even including David O'Leary, so it was only probably seen as a return to that level.  A welcome return of course, but nothing over and above what was still reasonably fresh in people's memories.  And certainly nowhere near as good as or exciting as the Atkinson/Little years.

We had 4 successive top half finishes prior to last season so there had clearly been an improvement. The biggest mistake Lerner made, imo, was the muddled thinking that replaced MON with first Houllier and then McLeish. What was needed was a steady hand to oversee the rebuilding and realignment of the wage structure for the changed circumstances. With the clear benefit of hindsight it's obvious that, for differing reasons, neither was wholly suited to the job and lurching from one extreme to the other was a mistake. I believe that with Lambert that has been rectified, but it's going to take more than half a season to fix what had gone before.

I understand that it's not something that comes naturally to all of us [ ;¬) ] but we are going to have to be patient while things are put back on an even keel.

The danger is that if we go down, as is distinctly possible, that we won't ever get back on an even keel, or if we do it will be as a Championship level club for a few years.

[Mazrim]

Newcastle came back stronger than before and whilst spending modest but smart money.
Its a financial kick in the bollocks for sure but hardly ruinous if you play your cards right.

Not that I think we'll go down of course but yes, it is a possibilty. It is for about 10 clubs for that matter.

[Ad@m]

Newcastle came back stronger than before and whilst spending modest but smart money.
Its a financial kick in the bollocks for sure but hardly ruinous if you play your cards right.

Not that I think we'll go down of course but yes, it is a possibilty. It is for about 10 clubs for that matter.

Indeed.  They did it without having relegation clauses in their player contracts either which meant they were paying Premier League wages in the Championship.

Relegation isn't the bullet through the head it was 10 years ago.  The parachute payment is much more generous now than it used to be.  There have actually been grumbles from the other clubs in the Championship complaining that it makes it much more difficult for non-relegated teams to get promoted because they can't compete with the parachute payments.

If it was a straight forward choice between the two, I'd rather we went down and came back up the following season much the stronger than spend the next three seasons battling against relegation.  At least we might get more than 4 home wins a season!

[saunders_heroes]

Newcastle came back stronger than before and whilst spending modest but smart money.
Its a financial kick in the bollocks for sure but hardly ruinous if you play your cards right.

Not that I think we'll go down of course but yes, it is a possibilty. It is for about 10 clubs for that matter.

Indeed.  They did it without having relegation clauses in their player contracts either which meant they were paying Premier League wages in the Championship.

Relegation isn't the bullet through the head it was 10 years ago.  The parachute payment is much more generous now than it used to be.  There have actually been grumbles from the other clubs in the Championship complaining that it makes it much more difficult for non-relegated teams to get promoted because they can't compete with the parachute payments.

If it was a straight forward choice between the two, I'd rather we went down and came back up the following season much the stronger than spend the next three seasons battling against relegation.  At least we might get more than 4 home wins a season!

Where are the 3 teams that were relegated from the PL last season? Nowhere near the top of the table. No, relegation would be a disaster for Villa.

[paul_e]

The fans wanted a gambler, not someone living within their means, we'd had that for years and were fed up with the limitations of that approach.  The majority wanted an american abramovich and he tried to be just that.

You're tying yourself up in knots now.  Either we set sensible spending limits or he tried to be an Abramovitch, the two things are poles apart.

Not in the slightest, even a gambler will have a limit of how long to stay in or how much good money to put after bad.

As I've said numerous times, the argument against Randy from yourslef and like minded people is that he went to far with the gamble, but I'd suggest that at least as many fans if not more would have been screaming a lot more if he'd closed his wallet sooner.

He's genuinely in a no win situation over this, purely because he was too nice and didn't kick mon out after the 2nd 6th place finish *which would've been the right time to do it as it turns out).  The difference between Lerner and Abramovich is that abramovich is an arsehole who doesn't give a shit about anyone, and sees no issue with sacking the guy who led them to their biggest triumph in their history 6months later.  I can't think of many owners who'd do that and I'm not sure I'd want someone that trigger happy at Villa.

[hawkeye]

THe fans did not want  a gambler, the fans just wanted no more Ellis and O leary type appointments,
RL could have pretty much said anything when he toook over, the fact that it wasnt Doug saying it was all that mattered.
we then had the MON verson of the emporers new clothes and most of people could not see it for what it wasnt

[Ad@m]

Newcastle came back stronger than before and whilst spending modest but smart money.
Its a financial kick in the bollocks for sure but hardly ruinous if you play your cards right.

Not that I think we'll go down of course but yes, it is a possibilty. It is for about 10 clubs for that matter.

Indeed.  They did it without having relegation clauses in their player contracts either which meant they were paying Premier League wages in the Championship.

Relegation isn't the bullet through the head it was 10 years ago.  The parachute payment is much more generous now than it used to be.  There have actually been grumbles from the other clubs in the Championship complaining that it makes it much more difficult for non-relegated teams to get promoted because they can't compete with the parachute payments.

If it was a straight forward choice between the two, I'd rather we went down and came back up the following season much the stronger than spend the next three sesons battling against relegation.  At least we might get more than 4 home wins a season!

Where are the 3 teams that were relegated from the PL last season? Nowhere near the top of the table. No, relegation would be a disaster for Villa.

You do realise that the season doesn't finish at the end of December don't you because you're rather quick to draw conclusions on the relative success of seasons? Blackburn, despite being an utter shambles, are only 5 points off the playoffs. Let's see where the three of them finish come May as I daresay they'll all finish higher than they currently are.

[Ian.]

Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.

[pauliewalnuts]

Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.

That'd be my preferred option.

Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.

[Greg N'Ash]

My problem is with their "Plan". I'm assuming they have a plan, it could just be off the hoof like the MON years, but lets call it the "Phoenix from the ashes" plan

I imagine Lamberts and indeed TSM's remit was/is something like the following:

"Manager will overseea period of rationalisation/cutting wages/shifting big earners
 while keeping us in the premiership. Manager to put emphasis on hunting out young relatively cheap players with potential to compliment our existing young players, resulting in a steady improvement in league placings as the players improve in the mid-long term"

Well i guess there's probably a few names still to dump, but part1 of the plan has worked. Squad-wise we're now of a similar quantity and quality as the relegation fodder. We're certainly playing as badly as the relegation candidates and to all intensive purposes we're Wigan with higher overheads. I don't know if Lambert can keep us up like that over the next 2 or three seasons but he's probably got as much chance as anyone bar miracle workers. i guess we'll find out.

Its "the rise from the ashes"bit that worries me. Sure i think some of the young players both bought and home-grown could become good players, maybe top 4 good but the majority of them? Nah. Not in the numbers to regularly get us in the best of the rest catagory and certainly not before the big clubs nick them.  So basically short term, we're Wigan with a long term plan to become the next Everton. Hopefully Lambert is this managerial combination of Martinez and Moyes and the promised land of regular 6th-8th finishes will becomes possible.

Great.

[Risso]

Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.

That'd be my preferred option.

Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.

Without wishing to piss on your bonfire, you do realise that the Spurs revival came about as a result of sacking their underperforming manager in October of that year?  After he'd won them the League Cup as well. It's not about sticking with rubbish managers come what may, it's about appointing the right man, and I can't see anything that suggests Lambert is moving us in the right direction.  Spurs haven't really looked back, although of course it does require the owner not to be a complete div as well.